UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:12:33 +1000 Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 00:16:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media >From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net >Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 15:18:47 PDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media >> From: RSchatte@aol.com >> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 12:21:39 -0400 (EDT) >> Subject: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media >Of course it's a little sad, too. These guys need a life, or >at least a hobby. For all their huffing, puffing, and frantic >bloviation, they have yet to provide an iota of empirical evidence >for their beloved faithf that pro-paranormal or -anomaly opinions >have any measurable negative effect on society. At the very worst, >such ideas amount to nothing more dangerous than silly folk beliefs. It's much more dangerous than that! I lost a huge security contract due to an Astrologer! Right now there may be people making decisions using faith, myth or superstition that will affect you. We can't control every aspect of our lives as long as we live in a society, it is imperative that we ensure that decisions made for us are based on logic, fact, evidence and truth. I was once quite tolerant of peoples faith beliefs, but the incident I recounted above made me realise how foolish that tolerance could be. Dave Everett. Search for other documents from or mentioning: deverett | clark |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 DISPATCH #66 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope From: ParaScope@AOL.COM Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 16:21:08 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 00:18:58 -0400 Subject: DISPATCH #66 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope DISPATCH #66 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope S O M E T H I N G S T R A N G E I S H A P P E N I N G 8/30/97 Quote of the Week "It's a clear violation of God's word.'' --Televangelist and former presidential candidate Pat Robertson commention on the "sin" of showing an interest in UFO phenomena. During a recent appearance on his "700 Club" show, Robertson advocated death by stoning for anyone who believes in the possible existence of aliens. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Rant of the Week: "The Rosie Apocalypse" Every week we pick the wackiest, scariest, nastiest or funniest rant from the hundreds of letters received by us here at ParaScope headquarters, and present it to you as our Rant of the Week. This week, "Miss Led" ponders whether Rosie's popularity is a sign of the End Times. Enjoy! "Darkness and evil will soon devour the earth...and whyy do I know this....it is because of Rosie O'Donnel....she will be the instrument of the all consuming darkness that will destroy all of mankind and all livestok and all vinyl records. I mean, my gosh, she has absolutely no talent, yet she has a solid fan base. Give me a break, who actually watches her show? Wouldn't it be more appealing to watch paint dry?" [Reprinted with spelling and grammar goofs unchanged. Names changed to protect the ranters.] -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Hot Talk on the Grassy Knoll Join us in the Grassy Knoll, our AOL chat room every day and night, for discussions of the latest conspiracies, paranormal events and UFO news. Our web site also features regular chats every Saturday night at 9:00 ET. http://www.parascope.com/virtualplaces/virtualplaces.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Coming Up Next Week! Catch all these stories next week on a daily basis on America Online, or all at once next Thursday on the web site! Conspiracy Newsline: All the News That Doesn't Fit If you 're not paranoid by now, you must not be paying attention. Start paying attention and get your daily updates on everything that's out to get you, courtesy of Conspiracy Newsline. ---------------- UFOs Behind the Great Wall: A Report on the UFOlogy in China In the days of Chairman Mao, Ufology was a strictly forbidden subject in China, even though that nation has had its share of UFO sightings just like the rest of the world. The first massive UFO sighting came on the night of July 24, 1981, when the population of 14 provinces spotted the same celestial phenomenon. J. Antonio Huneeus presents an in-depth report on the state of Ufology in China, from early UFO sightings during the Mind dynasty to present-day events that have been scantily reported on in the West. ---------------- The Jonestown Genocide: Madness, Mind-Control and Murder in the Jungle When the stories of the Jonestown "mass suicides" first started filtering out of the jungles of Guyana, people were shockec and horrified that close to 1,000 people could take their own lives as part of a religious ritual. But is there another, more shocking story that holds the truth of what really happened? Robert Sterling explores the possibility that Jonestown was a secret lab for CIA experiments in mind control, and that a mass killing was the only way to cover up the horrific reality of what happened. The startling connections and stunning "coincidences" behind the Jonestown Genocide will forever change the way you view that shocking event! ---------------- Atlantis "Discovery" Gets Sunk Aaron Du Val, president of the Miami-based Egyptology Society, recently announced that a team of underwater explorers has found the ruins of 12,000-years-old temples off the coast of the Bahaman island of Bimini. He suggested that the structures were directly linked to Egyptian architecture, and coyly noted how they seemed to fulfill Edgar Cayce's prophecies of the reemergence of Atlantis. Du Val's news set Atlantis-seekers on the Internet buzzing with excitement, although experts argued that nothing of the sort could possibly have been discovered in Bimini's waters. Why did Du Val cancel a press conference that promised further revelations? Is he now backpedaling on his Atlantis theory? Enigma editor D. Trull goes diving for answers and fishing for the truth. ---------------- CIA Anniversary: A Special Report on 50 Years of Secret Operations September, 1947: the Central Intelligence Agency is born, tasked with conducting the covert programs of the United States. In the fifty years that followed, the CIA became notorious around the world, for assassination plots, subversion campaigns, mind control experiments and other hidden abuses. To mark the CIA's anniversary, ParaScope presents a special round-up of reports and documents that strip away the shield of secrecy and take you deep inside the shadowy walls of "the Company." -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing! Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway? Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe yourself from Dispatch: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch That's all there is to it! Lil to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch ---------------------------------------- ParaScope 11288 Ventura Blvd., #904 Studio City, CA 91604 America Online -- keyword: parascope parascope@aol.com World-Wide Web -- http://www.parascope.com info@parascope.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: parascope | listserv |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: Men In Black Vehicles From: Stuart & Toni <livesey@trump.net.au> Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 07:01:23 +1000 Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 00:23:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Men In Black Vehicles >Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 16:28:10 -0400 >From: "skyeking@aye.net" <skyeking@aye.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Men In Black Vehicles >> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 14:11:04 GMT >> Subject: Re:UFO UpDate: Men In Black Vehicles >> From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> >From: brazel@webtv.net (Clint Stone) >> >Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:09:01 -0500 >> >To: updates@globalserve.net >> >Subject: Men In Black Vehicles >> >Does anyone have any information on what the classic "men in black" are >> >found to be traveling in these days? The reason is, I do believe I had a >> >run in with these guys last night. >> Tell us about your run-in. >> Roger R. Prokic >My Associate, Clint Stone, filed this report with me which will run this >month in our KY/MUFON newsletter, the "Bluegrass Bulletin," regarding >his possible UFO sighting and MIB encounter: >On Sunday night, about 9:30 p.m., I took a stroll outside my house in >hopes of taking some pictures of the planet Jupiter for my Astronomy >class. It turned out to be a cloudy night so I looked around for >something else to photograph. It was then that I noticed a bright light >coming through a stand of trees off in the distance and to the south of >me. I followed the object's progress until it came into full view and >immediately noticed it didn't look like an airplane - although I assumed >that it was. The object sported a combination of red, yellow, and white >lights all around it, instead of the regulation red, white and green. >"Man, this thing's goin' down!" I thought to myself as I continued to >watch the object. It was flying at such an extreme angle towards the >ground that I thought it must be about to crash or land on the highway. >I did hear what I thought to be the sound of a twin-engine aircraft but >this object couldn't have been an airplane and survive such a steep >angle of descent. >I snapped a picture of the object then repositioned myself in order to >keep an eye on it until it disappeared from view. Then I began the short >walk back to my house. That's when I noticed the headlights of a car >approaching my neighbor's driveway. As I continued to watch, the car >extinguished its lights and pulled up slowly in front of mine. Standing >only twenty feet away from it at this point, I was able to make out the >vague silhouette of someone staring at me (at least that's what it felt >like) from the driver's seat. Then I stepped into the glare of a nearby >security light in order to get a better look. The car -- a dark colored, >luxury compact of recent vintage -- immediately sped off at this point, >turning on its headlights as it did. >I immediately phone SD Jerry Washington who asked me to contact the >Henderson (KY.) and Evansville (IN.) airports to see if any crashes or >reports of similar objects had been logged. The answer was negative on >both counts; no crashed or aircraft of ANY description reported at that >time. This also included blimps and advertising planes. The local police >department was contacted, too, with similar results. >The next night, just out of curiosity, I stepped outside again to see >what I could see and noticed an airplane in the same general area. But >in this case it was obviously a plane. It had the regulation lights, and >it's outline was clearly visible, unlike the night before. >Jerry Washington >SD KY/MUFON Jerry, IMHO the bit about the mib appearing immediately after the event doesn't seem to fit the 'usual' MO for the original type of mib occurrences although it doesn't preclude this instance from being an example of official surveillance. Stuart Search for other documents from or mentioning: livesey | skyeking |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Alfred's Odd Ode #175 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 15:31:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 00:21:14 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #175 Apology to MW #175 (For August 31, 1997) Be it craft, or design or even misnomer -- Mistake matters _not_, and the meaning is _plain_! The evidence says that his printer has toner; We know that he's smart, and he's got half a brain! So mistake is apart -- explanation un-cool. He was far full aware of the import. He meant us to learn, his message is clear. It's a fundamental message in their fundamental court. The sad implication is God's genocide That's breathed from the pulpits of churches=85 "Take them and stone them then leave outside=85" "=85First whip them with switches from poplars and birches." "Those that look up, and afar and away --" "The dreamers that wonder the reasons for things"? "Make them the first to atone and repay"! "Make them the first ones to bear stripes and stings"! "More will come later as our power base swells"! "We'll pick up where we left off on the Jews"! "We'll get the Friedmans, the Hancocks, the Marrs, and the Bells" "We'll torture Rebecca, and _all_ the strange crews. Some wonder just who's Satanly, When they scuff their knees to pray, When the tithe they give so blatantly Goes to shore up on "PAT'S WAY." Well, I've got me an idea strange. I'd bet this life, my own undone =85 Consider me unhinged, deranged -- But Satan is ~ Pat Robertson=85 A spouter of the foulest hatred, He preaches mother world Is full of demons unabated, Where shrieks of hell unfurl. I see him gaily waving To the men gone off to war=85 He would stay to start the paving For his show, a whining bore. Pat said the faithful should have stoned me -- When I first brought words to form. Pummeled, and rocked, and crushed to one knee I should be begging for forgiveness, pleading to conform. Pat Robertson is the reason that we're feeling so uptight Pat Robertson is the reason for confusion! Pat Robertson is the reason that we fight our useless fights Pat Robertson is the taste of hate's infusion. Robertson's an evil thing that's burned a book or two -- Robertson is FILTHY from the pockets of the needy! Robertson has done his part to foment and unglue. He "slouches off to Bethlehem" a foulness proud and greedy. I thought these things before I found he champions MY demise, At the hands of chosen "righteous" I deplore. But _I_ am not the one to murder even he whom I despise. He calls for _executions_ -- He's _through_ the devil's door! Lehmberg@snowhill.com Stone ME? You better tie me down, or gut shoot me -- I throw BACK! I defy you Pat Robertson, and your scurrilous apologists. On your admission that you would have me killed -- I redouble my efforts of opposition, and ironically _do not contest_ your right to life. Boy Pat -- it almost seems like we are arguing from each other's position. Who's the Satan! Fellow motes! I feel real good about telling you that if you see Pat Robertson moving in any firm direction -- sprint hard the other way! _He's_ the one to lead you straight into the arms of hell, accept no substitute! -- Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for knowing who Satan really was! =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" Personal HARASSMENT; however, the harassment index is infinite for each of us. Consider the televangelist who campaigns for your execution!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 New human advances in alien technology? From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 18:30:41 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 00:28:05 -0400 Subject: New human advances in alien technology? Information from open sources, you don't need a security clearance for this news. Those with an interest in the human development and application of "alien" technology may find the following the news item of interest: Fiber optics makes it possible to transmit enormous amounts of voice, video, and computer data via light pulses traveling through optical fibers thinner than a human hair and to do so faster, more cheaply, and with greater clarity than through the use of conventional cables. Researchers at the Institute at Optics at the University of Rochester have recently developed a way to take light out of a fiber, measure and manipulate it, application then put it back in, with minimal disturbance to the light or the fiber itself. This work is another step toward the development of smart monitors that can keep tabs on the laser beams that form the heart of optical-communications systems. Fiber optic signals can now can be intercepted just as effectively as it used to be with metallic wiring. Back in the old days of copper wiring this used to be called wire tapping. So now fiber optics can be tapped, just when you thought your phone conversations on your business's new fiber optic phone cable would be private. Now that's progress. Gary P.S. This technology does have other practical applications.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: PROJECT-1947 - Corso's Officer Qualification From: RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates] Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 20:28:56 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 10:27:23 -0400 Subject: Re: PROJECT-1947 - Corso's Officer Qualification > Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 11:39:28 -0700 > From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> > Subject: Corso's Officer Qualification Record, DA Form 66, Part I > To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM > Greeting List Members > Larry Bryant kindly supplied me with a copy of Corso' > Department of the Army Form 66, Officer Qualification Record, > which summarizes his military career. The information contained > on this record is in summary form, and generally can't be used > to determind specific reasons why something happen in > a person's career. Some items are blacked out because of > the Privacy Act. This form was obtained form the St. Louis > Army Reserve Personnel Center. > The facts: <brevity snip> > 18. On June 20th, 1961 he was assigned to the Foreign > Technology Division (FTD) as a Staff office. He stayed at that > assignment until 18 July 1962 when he was assign as Staff > Officer in the Plans Div, OCRD, Washington, DC. > 19. During his FTD assignment, he was chief from 18 April- > 18 Jul 1962. Of this 90 day assignment which qualified him > for a official rating report as chief, he was absent for > 15 days of those days. So instead of two years as head of the FTD (perhaps I misunderstood his claims in his book), we find out that he was actually the chief for 90 days. Interesting, Robert Search for other documents from or mentioning: rgates8254 | jan |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 The Pat Weisslander 'letter' on Stan Friedman From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 11:19:53 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 11:19:53 -0400 Subject: The Pat Weisslander 'letter' on Stan Friedman I have received a message from Pat Weisslander which started with the following: "I am dismayed that my Email post to a private individual as released to an Email line. i am not sure exactly who is responsible for this happening, but i had no knowledge of it until someone posted me something they had received from a line they subscribe to." To Pat, I apologise for not recognising that it was, in fact 'private'. In view of that and the direction of the discussion it has evoked on UpDates it is the intention of this moderator to post no more messages that reference Pat Weisslander. Errol Bruce-Knapp, Moderator UFO UpDates - Toronto
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: In the interest of truth/ufo photos From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 11:33:54 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 11:33:54 -0400 Subject: Re: In the interest of truth/ufo photos Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 02:47:23 -0500 To: updates@globalserve.net From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Subject: Re:In the interest of truth/ufo photos Hi Errol, hi All, In my original sighting report I wrote, >I fired of some photos but I don't expect much from them, the objects were >>just too far up to be seen naked eye. Well, I was wrong. I got them on film! Thank you Pentax for making such fine cameras and lenses. <G> Here are the first two scans. I have a total of eight photos, a sequence of four involving one sighting and a series of four taken an hour or so later of the same or a similar object. The first two pictures I'm posting are the original photos with enlargements and enhancements as 'insets' within the original. The third picture is a 'composite' of picture one and two that shows the change in position of the UFO from one photo to the next. I hope Bob Shell is taking a bit of time to peruse these pictures that I've been posting. It's all daylight stuff. Again, these are not to be reproduced or reposted elsewhere without my express permission.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: In the interest of truth/ufo photos - From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 03:01:50 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 11:38:09 -0400 Subject: Re: In the interest of truth/ufo photos - Correction: In composite photo three where the comparison of the objects change in position appears. Switch the labels! Where 'photo-1' appears should be 'photo-2 and vice-versa. Sorry for the confusion. John Velez John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Ufomind Policy on Use of Pseudonyms From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 00:21:13 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 12:09:42 -0400 Subject: Ufomind Policy on Use of Pseudonyms On Aug. 28, on the UFO Updates Mailing List, Linda Cortile Writes: >From: HONEYBE100@aol.com >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 21:57:32 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Question for Linda Cortile >>Linda, I'd like to point out that the UFO Updates Archive (UFO Mind) >>site profiles you on their investigator page. Your page is listed as >>"Linda -------------." So naturally people are going to use your real >>name. Ethics has nothing to do with it. >Fancy meeting you here! <G> Thanks for alerting me as to the UFO >Updates (UFO Mind) site. I was unaware of their using my real name. >That's irresponsible on their part, as it would be for anyone else to >use my real identity. No...it isn't natural for people to go against >anyone's wishes, unless they're natural born butt-heads. Ethics has >EVERYTHING to do with it because the use of a pseudonym says >a lot. When I'm ready to use my real name, I will. Perhaps I should clarify the Ufomind policy on the use of "real" names versus pseudonyms. First, though, I must point out that the UFO UpDates Archive and the Ufomind People section are separate entities. Ufomind happens to host the archive but has no control over its content, and vice versa. Errol controls the mailing list, while I control the People section and the rest of the server. The decision to create a "Linda -------------" page is mine alone. Right now, I don't recall where "-------------" came from (and I am not too familiar with the -------------/Cortile story, but here is my general policy... The Ufomind People section lists people by their last name. I want to create a single stable address for each person, and pseudonyms confuse things. If Mr. Smith is also known as Mr. Jones, should it be... www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/s/smith/ or www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/j/jones/ ? My rule is that I use a person's real name whenever it is a matter of "public record" -- e.g., when Mr. Jones has been identified as Mr. Smith in a published news story, in reliable documents on the web or in any other public forum. I do not try to "expose" a person's identity if it is not already public knowledge, and I do not usually conduct an investigation to determine a person's real name; I simply perform a web search and search a few public references and see if the real name turns up. I recognize that some sources may require anonymity, because their involvement in the UFO field may cause professional, personal or legal problems. This protection ends when you become a "public figure" in the UFO movement. If you just want to tell your story to a researcher and be done with it, and you use a pseudonym, then there is no reason that your real name should be published if you don't want it to be. If, however, you choose to appear on talk shows or do the lecture circuit, then you have stepped into public figure status. You also cross the line when you seek any personal or financial gain from your story. There is some judgement involved on my part. If someone is making money from their story or there is any evidence of fraud, then I will more actively seek their real name. If someone is a quiet individual who tells his story and then goes back to private life, then I may choose not to print their real name even if I know it myself. I faced my own dilemma with "Jarod 2" an acquaintance of mine who claims to have worked for a secret government UFO project and whose story I wrote about in the Desert Rat. I used a pseudonym for him not to protect him from the government but from the UFO nutcases, who were already camping out in front of his house (like "Ambassador Merlyn Merlin II" aka David Solomon, an especially annoying "alien" who was camping in his car in front of Jarod's home). Whenever someone tells a good UFO story, they are often subjected to unsolicited visitors and phone calls -- an annoying stream of UFO buffs who come to "ask questions" but end up doing most of the talking themselves. In one of his many anti-Campbell tirades, Lazar supporter Gene Huff posted "Jarod 2 is Bill Uhouse" repeatedly on the newsgroups as a way of needling me. I chose to ignore this for a while, even though it was now on the net, because I felt that Uhouse had done nothing on his own to justify public figure status. I think I would have done the same with anyone else's private source, because the Huff message was purely vengeful and was not intended to serve any journalistic or research purpose. However, Uhouse has also spoken at some UFO conferences and sells UFO-related merchandise (playing cards & T-shirts). This removes the "right of anonymity," so I have had to add a page on him under his own name. Sometimes, I will add a page for someone under their alias and only later find out what their real name is. In this case, it is a judgement call whether I should keep the original URL or rename it. The important factor here is that I want to maintain a stable URL. This database does not seek anyone's permission before creating a page on them, and it is in no way "authorized" by each person. We will create a page on any "public figure" in the UFO movement, and both supporters and opponents can post links to this page. Note that I supply only a minimum amount of information at the top of each page, and the person's "Role" should be a phrase that everyone agrees one. I publish city of residence when I have it, but I do not publish street addresses, phone numbers or email addresses. I try to walk a middle line between providing enough information and intruding unnecessarily into a person's privacy. For example, not printing a person's mailing and email addresses will not deter a serious researcher from finding them, but it will discourage junk mailers. Pseudonyms do not aid the free exchange of information, because they allow a person to hide their past deceptions. Given the lack of physical evidence in this field, to evaluate any UFO claim you must evaluate the person who is making it, and pseudonyms hinder that process. Here are a few other pseudonyms I have published without permission: Valdemar Valerian and O.H. Krill are John Grace at http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/g/grace/ (He protested to me by phone and said I should not print his "birth name," but since his business derives from selling UFO documents at high prices -- which some contend are fraudulant -- and his military credentials are disputed, I chose to publish his identity anyway.) Dr. Armen Victorian is Henry Azadehdel at http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/a/azadehdel/ Religious group leader "Rael" is Claude Vorilhon http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/v/vorilhon/ A host of aliases belong to D.L. Van Staveren http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/v/vanstaveren/ (He also protested by phone.) Micheal Wolf is Micheal Wolf Kruvant at: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/w/wolf/ Guy Kirkwood & Noall Bryce Cornwell are Mel Noel at: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/n/noel/ (His military credentials are disputed.) A pseudonym doesn't always indicate deception, but it raises some flags. One wants to find out why it is being used. I encourage people to let me know about any other aliases for UFO or paranormal figures.... if the alias is "on the record" or the person is seeking personal gain from his claims. Glenn [Note: I do not read this list regularly, so any responses should be cc'ed to me.] Index: Ufomind Techniques Mailing List Index: Bill Uhouse +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | U F O M I N D - M O T H E R S H I P | | "World's Largest and Best Organized UFO Website" * | | *** | | GLENN CAMPBELL - Ship's Captain & Acting Commander ***** | | ******* | | Area 51 Research Center campbell@ufomind.com ********* | | Las Vegas Annex http://www.ufomind.com | +------------------------------------------------------------------+
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: Question for Linda Cortile From: HONEYBE100@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 04:44:38 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 12:14:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for Linda Cortile Rebecca: I accept your apology. Your question was a reasonable one because my son John does hold an important place in my case. The question wasn't what bothered me. It was just the use of our family name. I had received personal e-mails from those who said they didn't know my real last name, until it was posted. I know that you have an objective view regarding most cases. Ob- jective skepticism is healthy. However, sometimes we have to be careful of how we phrase what we write because we don't have the benefits of facial expressions, or a tone of voice, etc., in our posts. We have to rely on the words we type. Take care, Linda Cortile
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media From: Ron Decker <ron_decker@wavebbs.com> Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 06:52:57 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 12:16:43 -0400 Subject: Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media > Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:12:33 +1000 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media > >From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net > >> CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media > >Of course it's a little sad, too. These guys need a life, or > >at least a hobby. For all their huffing, puffing, and frantic > >bloviation, they have yet to provide an iota of empirical evidence > >for their beloved faithf that pro-paranormal or -anomaly opinions > >have any measurable negative effect on society. At the very worst, > >such ideas amount to nothing more dangerous than silly folk beliefs. > It's much more dangerous than that! I lost a huge security contract due to > an Astrologer! Right now there may be people making decisions using faith, > myth or superstition that will affect you. > We can't control every aspect of our lives as long as we live in a society, > it is imperative that we ensure that decisions made for us are based on > logic, fact, evidence and truth. > I was once quite tolerant of peoples faith beliefs, but the incident I > recounted above made me realise how foolish that tolerance could be. > Dave Everett. And when tolerance for others' beliefs are gone, with what are we left? The kind of paranoid, over-reaching paternalism we've seen in places like the Soviet Union, China, and so forth. It can happen here; and if it does, it will happen at the hands of the "scientists," not the "kooks." BTW, my stepfather bankrolled a guy whose formula for picking futures was based on Old Testament verses. They did quite well. The real danger is not that someone might their stock picks or choose a security contract based on an astrological table, but that that someone will lose the ability to do so. It's their money, right? They can do with it what they want. I shudder to think that some group like CSISLOP will one day have the ability to say, "You can't think that way," and be able to enforce that decision. Why is it that the strict materialists don't recognize that their materialism is as much based on faith as the beliefs of snake handlers and poison-drinkers? The true "true believers" are guys like Randi and his pals. Their dogmatism and intractability would make an 11th century churchman proud. Best regards, Ron Decker. Search for other documents from or mentioning: ron_decker | deverett |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 08:47:44 PDT Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 12:21:09 -0400 Subject: Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media > From updates@globalserve.net Mon Sep 1 02:49:02 1997 > Return-Path: <updates@globalserve.net> > Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:12:33 +1000 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media > >From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net > >Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 15:18:47 PDT > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media > >> From: RSchatte@aol.com > >> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 12:21:39 -0400 (EDT) > >> Subject: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media > >> To: updates@globalserve.net > >> CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media > >Of course it's a little sad, too. These guys need a life, or > >at least a hobby. For all their huffing, puffing, and frantic > >bloviation, they have yet to provide an iota of empirical evidence > >for their beloved faithf that pro-paranormal or -anomaly opinions > >have any measurable negative effect on society. At the very worst, > >such ideas amount to nothing more dangerous than silly folk beliefs. > It's much more dangerous than that! I lost a huge security contract due to > an Astrologer! Right now there may be people making decisions using faith, > myth or superstition that will affect you. > We can't control every aspect of our lives as long as we live in a society, > it is imperative that we ensure that decisions made for us are based on > logic, fact, evidence and truth. > I was once quite tolerant of peoples faith beliefs, but the incident I > recounted above made me realise how foolish that tolerance could be. > Dave Everett. Dave, Sorry to hear about your misfortune. Still, it begs the question of how many people have lost their shirts after listening to "legitimate" business and investment advisers. Would you have us silence everybody who gave us bad advice which caused us to "lose control" of "every aspect of our lives"? Ever heard of something called the First Amendment? In the end, if we are to function as adults, we have to accept responsibility for the decisions we make. There is, after all, a vast amount of skeptical literature on astrology out there. You can't blame the rest of the world for your failure to consult it before making the decision that caused you so much trouble. The sort of society you seem to be advocating here -- one which eschews tolerance and waits on decisions made for us by arbiters of what pass for "logic, fact, evidence, and truth" (or at least this particular historical moment's concept of same) -- is not one in which most of us would care to live. Best, Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 BUFORA - London Lectures From: Stephen Gamble <el82@dial.pipex.com> Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 14:24:08 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 15:02:31 -0400 Subject: BUFORA - London Lectures BUFORA holds lectures on the first Saturday of each month from September round to the following June at the University of Westminster, Marylebone Road, London, NW1,UK starting at 6:30pm. The venue is opposite the Planatarium, next to Baker Street station. The meetings last from 6:30 until approximately 9:30pm with a short break at around 8pm. Admission is =A31-50 for BUFORA members and =A33-50 for guests. Saturday 6th September Dr Ray Nielsen speaking about the Atherius Society Dr Nielsen is flying in from L.A. on the 5th of September. Apparently he worked quite closely with the late Sir George King (founder of the Atherius Society) who died some weeks ago. He is quite high up in the organisation and is quite excited about talking to us. Saturday 4th October ( I don't have my list with me - so cannot fill in the details at the moment) Saturday 1st November BUFORA Research Team - The Pros and Cons of Hypnotic Regression Evidence both for and against the use of hypnotic regression in the study of UFO cases will be presented.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 12:53:05 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 17:03:18 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman > From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> > Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 22:46:07 -0300 > Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 22:04:54 -0400 > Subject: Re: UFO Beliefs > I am convinced some originate on a planet > around either Zeta l or Zeta 2 Reticuli.as described in The Zeta > Reticuli Incident. > What theories? Motivation? Mode of propulsion? Reasons for coverups? > Reasons for visiting Earth? Reasons for not landing on the white house > lawn? Asking the right questions is a very important part of trying > to find truth.Sounds like you have not read much of the scientific > literature. You might look at the 10 pages of references to scientific > UFO materials at the back of TOP SECRET/MAJIC, l996, Marlowe and Co. > Stan Friedman Stan, All traditional folklore aside,...can you state some other reasons aside from Terrence Dickinson's article in 1976 that might propel you to believe that the Zeta binary system is a likely origin for some extraterrestrial craft? Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Guy Kirkwood From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 20:26:39 -0300 Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 17:11:19 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Guy Kirkwood > From: William.Hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com > Date: Friday, 29 August 1997 8:16am MT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Guy Kirkwood [sinp] > I have been speaking to a retired Air Force officer here at work > who was once the UFO Officer at Malstrom AFB and asked him a few > questions about military records and documents. He has personal > knowledge that records have been altered as well as removed. > This usually happened in cases where it was expedient to cover-up > a classified operation. > Even now I am learning to file FOIA requests, learning image > analysis, and whatever other tools are necessary to investigate > UFO matters in further depth. Probably, where I differ from some > others is my current trend to look at both sides of an issue, > but not without discrimination. A claim that says "I have > produced some records" and a supporting claim that says "I have > witnessed seeing these records", I believe, should not be shrugged > off. The next step is to see if there is a way to determine if > the records are authentic. > Sincerely, > Bill Hamilton I await the results of your search. The DD214 should have been easily replaceable if indeed, as we were told, it was in a box of papers that fell off a truck when Guy moved. It should have his service number which can then be checked with Personnel Records Center. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: UFO Beliefs From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 01:32:05 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 17:12:38 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Beliefs >From: kewyatt@teleport.com (Keith) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Cc: "Anthony Chippendale" <ufos@chipp.clara.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFO Beliefs >Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 08:15:46 GMT >>From: "Anthony Chippendale" <ufos@chipp.clara.net> >>Organization: UFOs Online >>To: skywatch@phoenic.net >>Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 20:53:12 +0000 >>Subject: UFO Beliefs <big snip> >Well I think just about covers some of my views. For me however I know that >Unidentified Flying Objects exist, we just haven't identified what they are. >They could be space aliens, an unexplained phenomena, government >aircraft/experiments or... >For some people it is a religion, to me it's a mystery that science can >solve or explain. >Keith UFOs are a religion for non-existent people who only live in the minds of debunkers. Personally I have never met anyone who considered UFOs or aliens a religion. Those 39 suckers who went to the "level above human" in the wake of comet Hale Bopp were not followers of a religion, but people with serious psychological problems. I think the notion that UFOs are a religion for some people is nothing more than nonsense spread by those suffering from UFOphobia like Pat Robertson and Phil Klass. Nonetheless it is uncritically swallowed by people who should know better. Where are these wide eyed staring UFO believers who think that aliens are a substitute for God? _______________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \_________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: Strange Seismic Event At Russian Nuclear Test From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 01:31:59 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 17:14:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Strange Seismic Event At Russian Nuclear Test >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 13:15:06 +0200 >Subject: Strange Seismic Event At Russian Nuclear Test Site >Received from E.P.R.F. July 29 at 12.50 local Danish time (GMT + 2 >hours): >P A R A N O R M A L N E W S ***E X T R A*** >MOSCOW (Reuter) - Russia expressed surprise Thursday over a U.S. report >that there had been a "seismic event'' 12 days ago in the vicinity of a >Russian nuclear test site and said it had not carried out an atomic >test. >"I don't know what seismic activity they're talking about,'' a >spokesman for the Atomic Energy Ministry said by telephone. >"No nuclear tests were carried out at Novaya Zemlya. Russia has >voluntarily given up nuclear testing and sticks to this position.'' >The United States said earlier that it had detected a ``seismic event'' >with explosive characteristics in the vicinity of the Russian nuclear >test range at Novaya Zemlya on Aug. 16. >A Pentagon spokeswoman said Washington was trying to determine whether >it was a test blast. >Novaya Zemlya is an island in Russia's Arctic North around 560 miles >from Norway and 620 miles from Finland. >Finnish Radiation official Hannele Aaltonen said the Finnish >Seismological Institute had reported an incident at 10 p.m. EDT on Aug. >16 but that it had not affected radiation levels in Finland and did not >appear to be a nuclear test. >"Nothing in the radiation situation pointed to a nuclear test,'' >Aaltonen, head of emergency preparedness at Finnish Center for >Radiation and Nuclear Safety, told Reuters. >"According to the information we received from the seismological >institute, it was an explosion and not an earthquake,'' Aaltonen said. >``We have no knowledge of whether it was a nuclear charge,'' she said. >The Russian spokesman said that it would have reported a nuclear test >if there had been one. >"Where the Pentagon got this information from I have no idea. There are >special channels for the exchange of information on these issues >between the two countries and they are working perfectly,'' the Russian >spokesman said. >"It sounds even more strange, as a delegation of ecologists has just >left for the Novaya Zemlya testing range. No one would have carried out >a nuclear test on the eve of the ecologists' arrival,'' he said. >Russia, along with the other four declared nuclear powers, has imposed >a voluntary moratorium on testing. Russia announced in 1992 that it was >halting nuclear explosions. >No one at the Defense Ministry or the Kremlin was immediately available >for comment. This event was also described in the Dutch newspaper De Volkskrant on Friday August 29. The report was roughly similar to this one, but the possibility was added that it was an underwater earthquake. _______________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \_________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 12:26:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 17:17:20 -0400 Subject: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity > Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 11:15:09 -0700 > From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> > To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: The question of UFO witness anonymity > List, > The recent posts regarding Linda Cortile have compelled me to > share my opinion on this issue. I'm not sure how Linda's identity got > compromised, but it is a real shame. She has the right to a life free > of UFO researchers calling her at all hours, writing her, ect. > Some people(Jim Moseley) always point out her real last name > figuring that now that some people know it, why not let everybody in > on the secret. Regardless of your opinions of Linda and her case she > has a right to privacy. People trust us with their information and in > doing so risk ridicule from both other UFO researchers as well as the > public at large. If this disturbing trend continues less witnesses > will come forward. > The bottom line should be that if you have an anonymous witness, > they should stay that way. My congratulations to Linda on her son's > small role in "Two Bits"! > Regards, > Scott K. Hale To All: I tend to disagree. I think as soon as a witness turns an event or sighting into a money making proposition they loose their right to anonymity. That simply allows a liar to hide. If they can take the money then they should take the heat. They must be held accountable for every word they say and write.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: Question for KKK, SCICOP & Promethius Books From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 12:58:48 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 17:21:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for KKK, SCICOP & Promethius Books > Date: 27 Aug 97 12:44:41 EDT > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: Errol Bruce-Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Question for KKK, SCICOP & Promethius Books > Open letter to Kal K. Korff, SCICOP and Promethius Books, > As I understand it your argument against Ray Santilli's copyright > on the images from the alien autopsy film that you have used in > your books is that these photos are in the public domain. > Now, let's get this straight. They are in the public domain because > the cameraman was employed by the US Government when he shot them, > right. And that puts them in the public domain. > Hey, wait a munute, by arguing this aren't you arguing that the > film is real, and the cameraman's story true??? > If the film is a hoax created by Ray Santilli, then there is > absolutely no question that he owns the copyright to the images. > You can't have it both ways. > Bob Shell To All: Bob is absolutely correct. I have also posed this question to Mr. Korff who has snidely blown me off. (This must be the only way he knows how to communicate.) I enjoy copyright law (got interested in it researching Ed Waleters, Gulf Breeze photos.) Heres how the AA copyright plays out. First the photographer was an enlisted man. That makes evrything he did for the gov. the property of the gov. And all motion picture reels owned by the US gov are in the public domain. (Work for hire. Copyright Act 0f 1976 Sect. 101, 210b.) Since these films were taken in 1947 the 1976 CRA does not cover them. But for purposes of this discussion that is really not important. DERIVATIVE WORKS: (Santillis video). Only the photographer can claim copyright. He/she may assign it to a thrid party. NO ONE CAN CLAIM COPYRIGHT IN ANY WORK THAT IS IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN. However, a person can claim a copyright in a DERIVATIVE work which contains public domain material. The derivative work copyright protects only the NEW material. (CRA Sect. 101,103.) or material in public domain which has been SUBSTANTIALLY CHANGED, to create a NEW portion of work. In other words...Santilli CAN copyright his video, but if he reporduced the AA images directly from the 1947 reels, then he cant copyright the images that are in public domain. That means that anyone can use the images from the video. In order to copyright the AA images then he would need to have SUBSTANTIALLY CHANGED them to reflect a new work, and given the nature of the images, that would render them invalid. I have not read Korffs book...most likely won't...but it seems to me that if he has used stills from the AA video then he has proven Santilli's claim that the films were taken in 1947, by an enlisted photographer, which put them in public domain. Anyone out there with a different take on this Id sure like to hear it.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: Two Bits From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> Date: Sun, 01 Sep 1996 12:20:24 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 17:19:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Two Bits Glenn Joyner wrote: > Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 04:00:38 -0600 > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> > Subject: Two Bits > With kind regards to the List, our host, EBK, and Scott Hale... > REFERENCE: > >Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 00:35:49 -0700 > >From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: PROJECT-1947 - Corso's Qualification > Record > SCOTT STATED: > >I would also like to point out that the public at large doesn't > >think UFO research to be "fringe", at least according to the recent > >polls > I'm still with you, Scott, but I will respectfully reserve a > spot on "hold" with the above. (grin) I still think we have a > way to go to be accepted without at least a smirk on the part of > a good percentage of the population. I think I'll expand on my above comments. I think that publicly people still pretend to be closed to the UFO phenomenon. It has always been this way. For example, when Dr. Hynek went around and asked various astronomers what they thought of UFOs, he got very positive replies from people who had previously publicly denounced UFOs. Another good example was made by Ed Ruppelt. It went something like this: You'd be suprised how quickly inhibitions disappeared when a bunch of people got behind a door marked "Classified Briefing". So, I think the media continues to act like the public thinks the UFO phenomenon is fringe, but in reality I think people are more open than anyone could imagine. I must throw in one last example: I've had people come to me and tell me of their own UFO sighting, while they have ridiculed me in the past. > Mine, too. Heh. > Glenn Joyner > Dallas Thanks for the kind words! Scott K. Hale
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 CSICOP = Lies, deceptive practices From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com> Date: Mon, 1 Sep 97 13:03:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 17:23:39 -0400 Subject: CSICOP = Lies, deceptive practices ***** ATTENTION ***** In CSICOP's intent to purchase power, it is easy to see the Bullshit revealed. "Despite having the word "Investigation" in its name, since 1981 the group (CSICOP) has followed a policy of not conducting research itself, in order to preserve its impartiality." Comparative (What a bullshit world this could be if... ) (Satire) "Despite having the word "Investigation" in its name, since Waco the group (FBI) has followed a policy of not conducting research itself, in order to preserve its impartiality." Now now you poor skeptics... Don't let this comparison get you down. You CAN investigate! Yes! You can! All it a takes is: 1. Honesty 2. Integrety 3. Trustworthyness 4. Hard Work 5. Truth 6. Unbiased obsevations. 7. James Randy paying attention to Arthur C. Clark when told his lies are obvious and that he cheats when he "investigates" contrary to the "rules" of CSICOP. See! If Randy can break the rules, so can you! ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: UFOSearch #9: part 4c-3 /4 The Lear Scenario: From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 10:47:50 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 17:26:14 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOSearch #9: part 4c-3 /4 The Lear Scenario: >Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 16:29:17 -0400 >From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDate <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFOSearch #9: part 4c-3 /4 The Lear Scenario: Notes >This is part 4c-3 of the fourth part of the ninth essay >by UFOSearch. >The titles and parts of the complete essay are: >UFOSearch #9: Science, Counterintelligence And UFOs > Part One - Abstract and Introduction > Part Two - Counterintelligence And UFO Analysis > Part Three - The Counterintelligence Use Of > Research And Analysis In Small-Scale UFO > Investigations > Part Four > 4a - Evaluating UFO Scenarios Using Counterintelligence > 4b - UFO Scenario Analysis: THE KEYHOE SCENARIO > 4c - The Lear Scenario And UFO History > 4c-1 The Lear Scenario: Introduction and Background > 4c-2 The Lear Scenario: Analysis > 4c-3 The Lear Scenario: Notes To Section 4c > > 4d - The Streiber Scenario and The Future of The UFO >NOTE: These essays are posted with the permission of >the author, Val Germann. If you would like to correspond >with him I have arranged a temporary internet email address >that will forward the correspondence to him. This is not >a permanent email address. The address is: >ufosearch@pipeline.com I have received the first three parts of this post. Is there a 4 of 4? If so, could it be reposted? I don't have it. REgards, Mike C. ___________________ Gary, Only _three_ parts came through here - ebk Search for other documents from or mentioning: mchristo | galevy |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: "Stay honest!" From: "H. Buck Buchanan" <buck7@raex.com> Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 18:05:36 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 19:46:49 -0400 Subject: Re: "Stay honest!" > Subject: "Stay honest!" > Date: Wed, 27 Aug 97 21:35:55 -0500 > From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > This was sent to the editor of the online newspaper > I webmaster for, http://www.bulletin-ol.com > apparentally because the paper displays a liberal > attitude towards the subject of UFO. > > ~Pat~ > ============ > > From: Nancy Kowall <nlkowall@earthlink.net> > Reply-To: nlkowall@earthlink.net > To: jtoth@bulletin-ol.com > Subject: Symbol on UFO > a similar ship with the SAME ** H ** ! Then, about a year later, TNT > was running a 50's UFO quasi-documentary (OVERLORDS of the SKIES) > and I was stunned to see a crude representation of an analogous > craft again demonstrating the "H". The narrator mentioned that the > ship was said to be from the planet UMMO (!!!). I made a halfhearted > effort to track down the video but discovered it was actually a > motion film of which no one seemed to have current knowledge. I keep > meaning to contact Turner Broadcasting and request a repeat but > haven't done so. I later learned of a book with UMMO in the title > and had a local bookstore run a search but was told it was out of > print. Anytime I have asked about the sighting, I have been told by > a few wannabe Ufologists etal that it was actually a famous "hoax" > yet allegedly seen by about 15,000 people across the US sometime in For anyone interested in reading up on the "UMMO" affair, it's covered by Jacques Vallee in his book, "Revelations". I'm sure there are other sources of info on it, but unfortunately not in my library. For whatever it's worth... Buck Search for other documents from or mentioning: buck7 | pparri |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: Bell Labs and the military, leads From: mailbox@ix.netcom.com [Bob Wolf] Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 17:38:54 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 19:57:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Bell Labs and the military, leads >Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 19:52:25 +0200 (MET DST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Bell Labs and the military, leads >Hi all, >Col. Phillips Corso's book 'The Day after Roswell' speaks of the US Army >feeding Bell Labs with alien technology, starting in 1947. >If this is true, there must have been a very well established >relationship between the US Army and Bell Labs, especially during the >war years. >Now I don't doubt that that was the case, considering that Bell Labs was >big and a part of AT & T. But I don't understand why the US Army approached >Bell Labs with most of the alien technology. Why not divide the alien >technology pie equally among several big technological companies? >Is there evidence that Bell Labs or AT & T were not only big defense >contractors, but also outclassed most other industrial firm in >defense contracts by a margin? >Another question is: on what was the reputation of Bell Labs based >before they invented the transistor? >Maybe these are interesting research leads. Over the weekend, I called the President of American Computer Company at home and asked him your question. Aside from the fact that he was relaxing on one of the few days off he has had (he said) in months, he told me the following (actually, he faxed me the following): --- His statement: "Bob, Prior to 1947, Bell Laboratories and and the manufacturing arm of the Bell System: Western Electric, were extensively involved in the development of communications used during World War II, on the battlefield, and had developed in 1936 a very primitive calculator, which Bell has characterized as a digital computer. It wasn't until Dr. Wang came along and commercialized the digital calculator, that it became the basis for today's programmable calcultors." "Also, Bell Laboratories developed most of the technology used by the national and Government/Military telephone networks around during the century prior to 1947. Indubitably, Bell Labs had one of the most senior positions in the military research arena for a very long time and still does. Communications control devices are useful in controlling telephones, but are also useful in computers, and in controlling weapons, missiles, and etc. Case in point: the Light Amplification through Stimulated Emission of Radiation (LASER), commonly used as a targetting device today." "However, 1947 appears to have been a BANNER year in Bell Labs history, representing an unprecedented departure from its previous focus on Vacuum Tubes and Mechanical Relays. Nearly all subsequent technological advances in communications, switching, audio, video, integrated circuitry and military components at Bell Labs leveraged, in some way, the advent of the Transistor. Mr. John "Jack" Morton is the now nameless individual who headed up not only the Transistor project, but drove many of the projects that derived from the Transistor, as head of the Semiconductor Research and Development division of the Bell System, at Bell Labs, until his untimely death in the early 70's." "Many businesses, such as American Research and Development, American-Bell Computers, Digital Equipment Corporation, and others, emerged under the aegis of Bell Labs and the Bell System during those decades without the public ever really knowing they were commercial extensions of Bell System projects - as The Bell System was at the time not legally allowed to engage in such commercial ventures. And, while most have the perception that the Bell System and IBM are at each others throats, and fight like cats and dogs, I am of the personal opinion that any argument between them, is more like the tempestuous and vigorous relationship that sometimes occurs between a HUSBAND and a WIFE." "Note, I am distinguishing between Bell Labs and today's "AT&T Corporation" which are not exactly the same thing. I am under the impression that Bell Labs was split into two parts, both of which were to engage into research, Bell Labs for the Public, Long Distance and Military sector, and BellCore Research, for the Regional Bell Operating Companies. I am not certain that the 'cloistered' relationship between Bell Labs, Lucent Technologies and AT&T Labs, as it exists today, is in fact entirely legal. In fact, I am of the personal opinion that it is not, and today's AT&T may be very lucky that no one has challenged their position of exclusivity with Bell Labs, as I do not believe they are entirely entitled to it: the intellectual properties belonging to Bell Labs were paid for when Bell Labs was part of a public utility, The Bell System, and I am of the personal opinion, that Bell Labs intellectual properties belong TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, whose taxes and telephone payments paid for them, and that they do not belong to AT&T Corp - a commercial venture started to encapsulate the Long Distance commerce of the Bell System in competition with whosoever could enter the Long Distance Arena. It appears as if AT&T is deriving substantial profits from what may be an undeserved and allegedly improperly-privileged postion." "But, then again, I could be entirely wrong. If it turns out that Col. Corso's story, on the one hand, and the story American Computer Company publised about Roswell on its website, on the others, are true -- then that would add a very strange, in fact bizarre, twist to the entire affair, wouldn't it?" --- End of his statement I was asked by one of the list members to publish some unusual things I noticed about American Computer Company's website. Among these things are a very unusual format, unusual theme music on pages (you will have to use Internet Explorer to hear them), unusual color formats, hidden messages (like a very sarcastic one inviting the Press to sign up for press kits suggesting that it was very odd that the Press flame them for sending out press kits unsolicited to the Press, but harrass and hound people like Lady Di without first getting their permission - how timely - but I understand they may remove the reference this week out of respect for the Princess, whom I understand the head of American Computer knew personally), pictures of things like the Morse Telegraph with an enscription describing it as the first Email system, and so on. The person in question who wrote me, mentioned their email address: "nicolai_tesla@msn.com".<g> I would propose anyone who has the time, go search the site for unusual elements and I will compare notes with them - it appears to be riddled with unusual things. http://www.american-computer.com Everyone have a great Labor Day, and let me know of any developments in this arena. To "Jared Anderson, as to his posts: 'Thanks very much! I'm very glad I'm not all alone out here writing about this subject...'. -- Bob Wolf
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Some questions for a relitive newbie From: Arctic Fox <ufologik@usa.net> [Michael C. McCann] Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 17:40:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 20:17:19 -0400 Subject: Some questions for a relitive newbie Ok, here's a few questions I have, they'll probably sound odd but please bear with me. 1) Does Energy have a definate form, or more precisely light? IT seens to me that almost all Nocturnal Lights (NLs) have a sphere shape(Earth Lights,ball lightning, etc.). 2) Where can I find good quality information on Physical and EM effects left by UFOs? 3) Also looking for some good places to purchase GOOD UFO books, most of the stuff here in TN is New Age junk, in fact the only good books I've seen here are 2 by Kevin Randle. Finally, since this is my first most, I might as well tell you a little about myself. My name is Michael C. McCann. I run a rather large archive of UFO information which is currently on hiatus while it moves to a larger provider. I'm also a little sad I missed the UFO Golden Age, seemslike it was more "interesting" back in the 70s/80s but it's still enticing to me today. I'm 15 and can not believe how many people my age are buying this cheap ufo/alien crap. My other interesting include programming, physics, building robots, and obviously, I like talking to my friends. I'm trying to find someone in the Nashville area to teach me a little about researching too. Well, thanks for reading my post, I'll admit it's a little long winded but... Michael C. McCann +--------------------------------------------------+ | U F O O N L I N E | |..................................................| | #400+ Ufo Reports | | #Government Documents | | #Many More Advanced Features | |..................................................| | USA Server: | | Http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/1183 | |------Web Master: Artic Fox aka UfoLogik----------| \__________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 American Computer indicates its information From: mailbox@ix.netcom.com [Bob Wolf] Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 17:49:57 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 20:22:31 -0400 Subject: American Computer indicates its information Hi, American Computer Company has forwarded me an opinion, and their reply, authorizing me to post it on their behalf. You can verify its authenticity by contacting them at their offices on Tuesday. -- Bob Wolf >Below is the result of your feedback form. It was >submitted by () on Fri Aug 29 20:50:08 PDT 1997 >--------------------------------------------------------- >TITLE: THIS IS MY OPINION ABOUT ROSWELL AND UFOs !! >____________________________________________ >AUTH: THE BELOW PERSON SUBMITTED THIS OPINION ON THE ABOVE DATE. >____________________________________________ >EMAIL ADDRESS: << HIDDEN :::ID GUARD::: HIDDEN >> >____________________________________________ >COMMENT1: it did happen! >____________________________________________ >COMMENT2: Corso told the truth! >____________________________________________ -- OPINION and REPLY Forwarded from AMERICAN COMPUTER: -- Thank you for your opinion. HERE IS A STATEMENT FROM THE PRESIDENT OF AMERICAN COMPUTER COMPANY. YOU MAY REPRODUCE IT IN UNMODIFIED FORM AND TRANSMIT IT TO WHOMEVER YOU WOULD CARE TO, SO LONG AS IT REMAINS UNMODIFIED: "We have not reviewed the Col. Corso book so we have no way of verifying his statement. However, from anecdotal reports, we understand he may have briefly referred to transfers of pieces of the 'alleged' UFO to different research firms in the US in 1947. This would appear to corroborate the information independantly provided us regarding Bell Labs 'alleged' 1947 adaptation of reputedly 'of alien origin' materials into the design of the Transistor, first announced a number of months after the 'alleged' crash of a UFO in Roswell, NM." "Of course, as American Computer Company did not exist in its present form in 1947, we can neither confirm nor dispute the facts presented from these two entirely independant sources: ours and Col. Corso's." "It is not likely that for some months we will endeavor to read his book, so as to give the public time to decide whether or not we and Col. Corso are truly independant sources. However, note: until 'Jared Anderson', an independan t UFO Investigator, called our firm a few days ago and told us about Col. Corso an d the odd 'coincidence of facts' between American's UFO disclosure and Col. Corso' s book, American Computer Company HAD NEVER HEARD OF COL. CORSO BEFORE to the best of my knowledge. We are a Computer business and not ordinarily involved in nor even particularly interested in engaging in UFO Investigations, as it tends to distract us from the job of building and selling computers." "However, I do hope some day to meet Col. Corso and to read his book." You be the judge. --UFOwatch Coordinator
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: Question for KKK, SCICOP & Promethius Books From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 08:56:40 +1000 Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 20:27:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for KKK, SCICOP & Promethius Books >From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] >Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 12:58:48 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Question for KKK, SCICOP & Promethius Books >> Date: 27 Aug 97 12:44:41 EDT >> From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >> To: Errol Bruce-Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> >> Subject: Question for KKK, SCICOP & Promethius Books >> Open letter to Kal K. Korff, SCICOP and Promethius Books, >> As I understand it your argument against Ray Santilli's copyright >> on the images from the alien autopsy film that you have used in >> your books is that these photos are in the public domain. >> Now, let's get this straight. They are in the public domain because >> the cameraman was employed by the US Government when he shot them, >> right. And that puts them in the public domain. >> Hey, wait a munute, by arguing this aren't you arguing that the >> film is real, and the cameraman's story true??? >> If the film is a hoax created by Ray Santilli, then there is >> absolutely no question that he owns the copyright to the images. >> You can't have it both ways. >> Bob Shell >To All: >Bob is absolutely correct. I have also posed this question to Mr. Korff >who has snidely blown me off. (This must be the only way he knows how to >communicate.) >Anyone out there with a different take on this Id sure like to hear it. It seemed quite clear to me that Korff is attempting to tip Santilli's hand. If Santilli claims copyright and wishes to take legal action then everything about the ownership of the video will have to come out in court, he can no longer stall with promises to release material to Kodak etc. Dave Everett. Search for other documents from or mentioning: deverett | c549597 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 09:05:32 +1000 Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 20:34:49 -0400 Subject: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity >From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] >Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 12:26:40 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity >> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 11:15:09 -0700 >> From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> >> To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >> Subject: The question of UFO witness anonymity >> List, >> The bottom line should be that if you have an anonymous witness, >> they should stay that way. My congratulations to Linda on her son's >> small role in "Two Bits"! >> Regards, >> Scott K. Hale >To All: >I tend to disagree. I think as soon as a witness turns an event or >sighting into a money making proposition they loose their right to >anonymity. That simply allows a liar to hide. If they can take the >money then they should take the heat. They must be held accountable for >every word they say and write. Well said. But it's a sad fact of Ufology that almost all testimony is unfalsifiable, thus requiring the investigation into a persons credibility. IMO credibility _should_ be irrelevant. Take the recent weird claims about Stan Friedman that were posted here. Friedman's credibility is unimportant, only the data should matter. Dave Everett. Search for other documents from or mentioning: deverett | c549597 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 09:21:02 +1000 Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 21:34:00 -0400 Subject: Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media >Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 06:52:57 -0500 >From: Ron Decker <ron_decker@wavebbs.com> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Medi >> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:12:33 +1000 >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media >> >From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net >> >> CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media >> >Of course it's a little sad, too. These guys need a life, or >> >at least a hobby. For all their huffing, puffing, and frantic >> >bloviation, they have yet to provide an iota of empirical evidence >> >for their beloved faithf that pro-paranormal or -anomaly opinions >> >have any measurable negative effect on society. At the very worst, >> >such ideas amount to nothing more dangerous than silly folk beliefs. >> It's much more dangerous than that! I lost a huge security contract due to >> an Astrologer! Right now there may be people making decisions using faith, >> myth or superstition that will affect you. >> We can't control every aspect of our lives as long as we live in a society, >> it is imperative that we ensure that decisions made for us are based on >> logic, fact, evidence and truth. >> I was once quite tolerant of peoples faith beliefs, but the incident I >> recounted above made me realise how foolish that tolerance could be. >> Dave Everett. > And when tolerance for others' beliefs are gone, with what are we >left? Tolerance for truth? > The real danger is not that someone might their stock picks or choose >a security contract based on an astrological table, but that that >someone will lose the ability to do so. It's their money, right? But it's my employment! It's not about people _losing_ their right to hold beliefs, it's their ability to make decisions that affect _me_ that matters. If I had been judged unsuitable based on facts that would have been alright, I'd already been chosen by the Head of Security for this job based on his knowledge of my skills. It's a long story why I had to go through a separate Security Consultancy for this contract and how Astrology came in to it. But this is a case where I _knew_ faith was being used to make a decision that affected me, what concerns me more are decision made for me, based on faith, that I _don't_ know about. >Why is it that the strict materialists don't recognize that their >materialism is as much based on faith as the beliefs of snake handlers >and poison-drinkers? The true "true believers" are guys like Randi and >his pals. Their dogmatism and intractability would make an 11th century >churchman proud. That would be the type of churchman that condoned torture, the selling of indulgences, murder of those who held alternate beliefs and the suspension of all improvement would it? Dave Everett. Search for other documents from or mentioning: deverett | ron_decker |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 09:36:05 +1000 Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 21:35:44 -0400 Subject: Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media >From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net >Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 08:47:44 PDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media >> From updates@globalserve.net Mon Sep 1 02:49:02 1997 >> Return-Path: <updates@globalserve.net> >> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:12:33 +1000 >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media >> >From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net >> >Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 15:18:47 PDT >> >To: updates@globalserve.net >> >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media >> >> From: RSchatte@aol.com >> >> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 12:21:39 -0400 (EDT) >> >> Subject: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media >> >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> >> CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media >> It's much more dangerous than that! I lost a huge security >> contract due to an Astrologer! Right now there may be people >> making decisions using faith, myth or superstition that will >>affect you. >> We can't control every aspect of our lives as long as we live >> in a society, it is imperative that we ensure that decisions >> made for us are based on logic, fact, evidence and truth. >> I was once quite tolerant of peoples faith beliefs, but the >> incident I recounted above made me realise how foolish that >> tolerance could be. >Dave, >Sorry to hear about your misfortune. Thank you. > Still, it begs the >question of how many people have lost their shirts after listening >to "legitimate" business and investment advisers. Would you >have us silence everybody who gave us bad advice which caused >us to "lose control" of "every aspect of our lives"? Ever heard >of something called the First Amendment? I'm an Australian, we don't have a 'first amendment' we have only the protection of Magna Carta. >In the end, if we are to function as adults, we have to accept >responsibility for the decisions we make. Yes I agree, but my point was that decisions are made for us over which we have _no_ control. We don't have direct control over decisions made by Goverments, we don't have direct control over decisions made by our employers or clients. >There is, after all, a >vast amount of skeptical literature on astrology out there. You >can't blame the rest of the world for your failure to consult it >before making the decision that caused you so much trouble. You've lost me now, how did my knowledge or lack of knowledge about Astrology make me responsible for the decision of a second party? >The sort of society you seem to be advocating here -- one >which eschews tolerance and waits on decisions made >for us by arbiters of what pass for "logic, fact, evidence, and >truth" (or at least this particular historical moment's concept of >same) -- is not one in which most of us would care to live. No you've misunderstood me. First people need to be given the tools with which to construct knowledge, as in education that teaches children to learn and discover rather than copy. I want people to make decisions for themselves based on whatever they want, but when those decisions affect me I want them made on the facts. And so it should be with Ufology. The notion that people should be able to believe whatever they want is antisocial and anarchistic. Peoples beliefs invariably result in actions of some kind. If someone decided to believe that people with red hair should be killed and turned that belief into action would you be so tolerant? You see my concern is not that people can believe anything they want, but actions that can result from from unfettered belief. Dave Everett. Search for other documents from or mentioning: deverett | clark |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: In the interest of truth/ufo photos From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 21:31:45 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 21:31:45 -0400 Subject: Re: In the interest of truth/ufo photos Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 17:28:17 -0500 To: updates@globalserve.net From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Subject: Re: In the interest of truth/ufo photos >Hi Errol, hi All, >In my original sighting report I wrote, >>I fired of some photos but I don't expect much from them, the objects >>were >just too far up to be seen naked eye. >Well, I was wrong. I got them on film! Thank you Pentax for making such >fine cameras and lenses. <G> Here are the first two scans. I have a total >of eight photos, a sequence of four involving one sighting and a series of >four taken an hour or so later of the same or a similar object. >The first two pictures I'm posting are the original photo's with >enlargements and enhancements as 'insets' within the original. >The third picture is a 'composite' of picture one and two that shows the >change in position of the UFO from one photo to the next. I hope Bob Shell >is taking a bit of time to peruse these pictures that I've been posting. >It's all daylight stuff. Again, these are not to be reproduced or reposted >elsewhere without my express permission. >I saw UFO's and I got the pictures to prove it! <VBG> >Enjoy, >John Velez =========================================================================== Hi Again All,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: Behind American Computers - Addendum 3 From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 20:23:18 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 21:40:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Behind American Computers - Addendum 3 Regarding... >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 14:35:31 -0700 >From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) >Subject: Re: Behind American Computers - Addendum 3 Jared wrote: http://www.american-computer.com/ >New information on the American Computer Co. investigation. [...] >According to AC's research into the patents from the transistor and >the integrated circuit they claimed to have come across some >anecdotal information which suggested there was a dispute or >challenge to the patent that claimed the materials came from a weapon >being tested in the desert in 1947. Jared, It seems there was more than patent relevant to the transistor. In June 1948, John Bardeen and Walter Brattain took out a patent for a transistor, whilst William Shockley's application was for the transistor effect and a transistor amplifier. I also noted a comment that, "The transistor wasn't available to U.S. manufacturers until 1956, when a seven year-old antitrust law suit against AT&T, the owners of Bell Labs, was settled. The judgment required that AT&T give away licenses to manufacture the transistor to American companies". The transistor was first demonstrated to senior management on either 23 or 24 December 1947. It was the result of a lengthy research project into the use of semiconductors as an alternative to vacuum tubes. I believe Bell Labs had invested some 3 million dollars in research and by the time the supposed Roswell bounty fell from the sky, much of that work had been completed. I had highlighted the background in an earlier discussion and wrote: "Some time previously, while investigating the failure of radar diodes, they had noticed a "transistor effect" and suspected that small changes in current were taking place. They theorised that a suitable medium would produce active electronic effects and when they passed current through an N-type germanium crystal, they demonstrated the principle of amplifying an electrical current using a solid semiconducting material. Their concept was based on the fact that it is possible to selectively control the flow of electricity through silicon, designating some areas as current conductors and adjacent areas as insulators. The point-contact transistor amplifier became the building block for all modern electronics and the foundation for microchip and computer technology". There's considerable historical material available on the development of the transistor and a recommended source on the technical perspective is the weighty: "A History of Technology" Edited by Trevor I. Williams Volume VII "The Twentieth Century: c.1900 to c.1950" Part II ISBN: [0-19-858155-6] It also covers the integrated circuit, which was a natural progression. Shockley left Bell Labs in 1956 and set up Fairchild Electronics, in what was to become Silicon Valley. A young engineer working for the new company was Robert Noyce and Noyce is credited with the development of the integrated circuit. In an article entitled ""Microelectronics", published in "Scientific American", September 1977 Volume 23, Number 3, pp. 63-9, he wrote: "The integrated circuit, as we conceived and developed it at Fairchild Semiconductor in 1959, accomplishes the separation and interconnection of transistors and other circuit elements electrically rather than physically. The separation is accomplished by introducing pn diodes, or rectifiers, which allow current to flow in only one direction. The technique was patented by Kurt Lehovec at the Sprague Electric Company". In 1968 Noyce left Fairchild Semiconductor to set up the Intel Corporation. >The counterclaim was that the silicon arsenic combination originated >from a meteorite. The history of the patents had nothing to do with weapons testing, or controversies over meteorites! It's all a perfectly straightforward story and there was never any sudden "leap in technology". That's the real world, easily verified from the historical record. If anyone is interested in researching this further, I also noted a reference to a 1949 edition of the "Bell Systems Technical Journal", which may have been an in-house magazine. It's possible that archive copies of the journal can be viewed by the public and any editions circa 1947-48 might document the company's development of the transistor. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 21:44:01 -0300 Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 21:43:00 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman > Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 12:53:05 -0700 > From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) > To: Updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman > > From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> > > Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 22:46:07 -0300 > > Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 22:04:54 -0400 > > Subject: Re: UFO Beliefs > > I am convinced some originate on a planet > > around either Zeta l or Zeta 2 Reticuli.as described in The Zeta > > Reticuli Incident. > > What theories? Motivation? Mode of propulsion? Reasons for coverups? > > Reasons for visiting Earth? Reasons for not landing on the white house > > lawn? Asking the right questions is a very important part of trying > > to find truth.Sounds like you have not read much of the scientific > > literature. You might look at the 10 pages of references to scientific > > UFO materials at the back of TOP SECRET/MAJIC, l996, Marlowe and Co. > > Stan Friedman > Stan, > All traditional folklore aside,...can you state some other reasons aside > from Terrence Dickinson's article in 1976 that might propel you to > believe that the Zeta binary system is a likely origin for some > extraterrestrial craft? > Jared. Jared: I spend very little time on folklore. Neither Zeta l nor Zeta 2 Reticuli are binaries. Together they are not a binary. I spent a lot of time with Marjorie Fish, talked to a number of astronomers and Dr. David Saunders (who, after checking it, was very impressed with Marjorie's work), spent time with Betty and Barney Hill.I also spoke with John Fuller, Dr. Benjamin Simon, the newspaper reporter who did the first article about the Hill case, and have critiqued Carl Sagan's serious misrepresentations of the case in COSMOS, PARADE, Demon Haunted World; I have also noted the problem's with Randi's treatment in Flim Flam.. Without first my earlier article in Saga (with Bobbi Ann Slate Gironda), then Terry's ASTRONOMY article and the 32 page booklet issued later, and Marge's publication, I suppose we wouldn't even know that ZR l and ZR 2 are the closest to each other pair of sunlike stars in the local neighborhood. Since they are estimated to be a billion or so years older than the sun, it seems reasonable that interstellar travel would begin earlier there than any other place in the local neighborhood. Terry's 4 page 1980 "Zeta Reticuli Update" deals with objections not covered in the other articles included in "The Zeta Reticuli Incident" ($5.00 postpaid from UFORI, POB 958, Houlton, ME 04730-0958. The Update is $1.00). Stan Friedman (presuming you are not familiar with all the above or you wouldn't have asked the question).
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> Date: Sun, 01 Sep 1996 19:37:20 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 21:46:33 -0400 Subject: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity > From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 12:26:40 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity > To All: > I tend to disagree. I think as soon as a witness turns an event or > sighting into a money making proposition they loose their right to > anonymity. That simply allows a liar to hide. If they can take the > money then they should take the heat. They must be held accountable > for every word they say and write. Do you know for a fact that Linda has taken money for her story? Witnessed waswritten by Budd Hopkins, not Linda Cortile. So, if someone is making money they can't have any privacy? How much money did Witnessed make? Held accountable? You act like we're talking about some sort of criminal element here! Linda Cortile, you are under arrest... right! Thanks, Scott K. Hale
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 21:12:09 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 21:50:56 -0400 Subject: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity >From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] >Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 12:26:40 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity >> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 11:15:09 -0700 >> From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> >> To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >> Subject: The question of UFO witness anonymity >> List, >> The recent posts regarding Linda Cortile have compelled me to >> share my opinion on this issue. I'm not sure how Linda's identity got >> compromised, but it is a real shame. She has the right to a life free >> of UFO researchers calling her at all hours, writing her, ect. >> Some people(Jim Moseley) always point out her real last name >> figuring that now that some people know it, why not let everybody in >> on the secret. Regardless of your opinions of Linda and her case she >> has a right to privacy. People trust us with their information and in >> doing so risk ridicule from both other UFO researchers as well as the >> public at large. If this disturbing trend continues less witnesses >> will come forward. >> The bottom line should be that if you have an anonymous witness, >> they should stay that way. My congratulations to Linda on her son's >> small role in "Two Bits"! >> Regards, >> Scott K. Hale >To All: >I tend to disagree. I think as soon as a witness turns an event or >sighting into a money making proposition they loose their right to >anonymity. That simply allows a liar to hide. If they can take the >money then they should take the heat. They must be held accountable for >every word they say and write. Hi Scott, hi Barbera, Barbera, you are absolutely correct. People reporting 'publicly' especially those who are 'marketing' their personal accounts should be held accountable. I still believe that all "public" abductees should at least be willing to take polygraph, psychological or non-intrusive medical examination for the sake of advancing genuine research into this phenomenon. Each case must always be judged on it's own merits. Peripheral family members should be considered when forming a judgement. I know that the counter arguement that the abductee should not come forward if it is going to jeopardize their family in any way is also valid, but then how many would come forward? There have to be some 'implied' guarantees in order to make it easier for reputable, or professional persons to 'come out.' One such case is Linda's. Here we have an ordinary person who finds herself at the heart of a profound event. Whose (obvious) social responsibility is to come forward and to make herself available for investigation. But,...we also have wife and a mother of two who must continue to function and have a life in spite of all the light she finds herself under. The simplest way for her to have covered both bases was to change her name. Which she did. The problem is that it's not the 1930's when 98% of the american people were unaware that FDR was a cripple because the media collectively respected the mans right to dignity. Something important, something valuable has been lost between then and now. Linda _should be_ able to tell her story _and_ protect her family at the same time. Intelligent folks should realize that the real harm of exposure befalls her children and her husband. In consideration of that mitigating circumstance in Linda's case, (that she also happens to be a mother and a wife) there _should be_ an unspoken agreement among those in the UFO community to help her to protect her (requested) anonymity. The decision as to who should be pulled out of the closet and who shouldn't is one that none of us should make alone. One case, one person at a time, it's the only way. Linda's unique circumstances merit consideration and her wishes should have been respected by all. But then I'm just an old fashioned guy, with old fashioned ideas. <G> John Velez, Grumpy Old Man John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: Question for KKK, CSICOP & Prometheus Books From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 21:36:57 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 21:53:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for KKK, CSICOP & Prometheus Books From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 12:58:48 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 17:21:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for KKK, SCICOP & Promethius Books > I have not read Korffs book...most likely won't...but it seems to me that > if he has used stills from the AA video then he has proven Santilli's > claim that the films were taken in 1947, by an enlisted photographer, > which put them in public domain. Maybe I just fell off the truck along with Guy Kirkwood's DD-214, but tell me how using frames from Sanitlli's video _proves_ that there is FILM, that it was shot in 1947, by an enlisted man? > Anyone out there with a different take on this Id sure like to hear it. I haven't seen Korff's book either. But why wouldn't FAIR USE to come into play? Couldn't Korff use a couple of frames from the footage in his book for a review? When you did your research, did you check into fair use? I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me that fair use would apply. Anyway, I hope it all goes to court. I think we might get something settled that way. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 02:23:55 GMT Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 23:44:48 -0400 Subject: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity >From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] >Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 12:26:40 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity >> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 11:15:09 -0700 >> From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> >> To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >> Subject: The question of UFO witness anonymity >I tend to disagree. I think as soon as a witness turns an event or >sighting into a money making proposition they loose their right to >anonymity. That simply allows a liar to hide. If they can take the >money then they should take the heat. They must be held accountable for >every word they say and write. I agree 100%. I've been meaning to chime in on Rebecca's accidental naming Linda's last name here. I think Linda is trying to have her cake and eat it too. If she wants to hide behind Cortile, she should stay out of the public (such as this list). I also agree with Glenn Campbell's rationale of listing Linda's real last name. We can't be pitying people who are selling their UFO stories, especially when they themselves don't stay private. Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA - using a 3Com PalmPilot Professional & HandStamp Pro 1.0 - Search for other documents from or mentioning: rprokic | c549597 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 The Crop Circle Connector#40 From: Mark Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 03:05:05 Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 23:47:27 -0400 Subject: The Crop Circle Connector#40 Hi Members = 2140 Monday 1st September 1997 What's New on the Crop Circle Connector ************************************************** New USA Formation Marion, New York State. Pictogram design See International Crop Circles at:- http://alpha.mic.dundee.ac.uk/ft/crop_circles/1997/inter97.html ************************************************** New USA Formation Wausau, Nr Wisconsin, USA. See International Crop Circles at:- http://alpha.mic.dundee.ac.uk/ft/crop_circles/1997/inter97.html ************************************************** Additional Report on Fosbury Hill Fort New information on this impressive formation in this idyllic location on the Wiltshire/Hampshire border at:- http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/1997.html ************************************************** Additional Report on Buckland, with three Diagrams attached of new formations in the same location at:- http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/1997.html ************************************************** Update on the Uffington White Horse formation with an image at:- http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/1997.html ************************************************* We hope to return to your regular service with the latest update links on the What`s New page next week. All the best Stuart & Mark * The Koch Fractal, Silbury Hill, 1997 :/\: .-- --. . :\ /: . *__/\__/ \__/\__* :\ /: ./__ __\. Mark Fussell: ':\ /:' mailto:mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk .'__/ \__'. \ / Subscribe: :/_ __ __ _\: news:alt.paranormal.crop-circles * :\/: \ / :\/: * . :/ \: . The Crop Circle Connector Web Site at: .-- --. http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/connector.html :\/: *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 22:07:30 PDT Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 23:56:51 -0400 Subject: Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media > Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 09:36:05 +1000 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media > >From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net > >Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 08:47:44 PDT > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media > >> From updates@globalserve.net Mon Sep 1 02:49:02 1997 > >> Return-Path: <updates@globalserve.net> > >> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:12:33 +1000 > >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >> From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> > >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media > >> >From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net > >> >Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 15:18:47 PDT > >> >To: updates@globalserve.net > >> >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media > >> >> From: RSchatte@aol.com > >> >> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 12:21:39 -0400 (EDT) > >> >> Subject: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media > >> >> To: updates@globalserve.net > > >> >> CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media > >> It's much more dangerous than that! I lost a huge security > >> contract due to an Astrologer! Right now there may be people > >> making decisions using faith, myth or superstition that will > >>affect you. > >> We can't control every aspect of our lives as long as we live > >> in a society, it is imperative that we ensure that decisions > >> made for us are based on logic, fact, evidence and truth. > >> I was once quite tolerant of peoples faith beliefs, but the > >> incident I recounted above made me realise how foolish that > >> tolerance could be. > >Dave, > >Sorry to hear about your misfortune. > Thank you. > > Still, it begs the > >question of how many people have lost their shirts after listening > >to "legitimate" business and investment advisers. Would you > >have us silence everybody who gave us bad advice which caused > >us to "lose control" of "every aspect of our lives"? Ever heard > >of something called the First Amendment? > I'm an Australian, we don't have a 'first amendment' we have only the > protection of Magna Carta. > >In the end, if we are to function as adults, we have to accept > >responsibility for the decisions we make. > Yes I agree, but my point was that decisions are made for us over > which we have _no_ control. We don't have direct control over > decisions made by Goverments, we don't have direct control over > decisions made by our employers or clients. Let's see if I get this straight. On one hand, you're complaining that you have no "direct control" over government decisions. Gee, I always was under the impression that Australia is a democracy. I live in one, too, which doesn't mean that I like every decision that gets made. Not all that long ago, I endured 12 years of Presidents I didn't vote for and actively disliked. But I respected, however grudgingly, the decisions of my fellow citizens. The alternative -- somebody other than the voters making the decision on who the President would be -- was and is unimaginably worse. > >There is, after all, a > >vast amount of skeptical literature on astrology out there. You > >can't blame the rest of the world for your failure to consult it > >before making the decision that caused you so much trouble. > You've lost me now, how did my knowledge or lack of knowledge about > Astrology make me responsible for the decision of a second party? I don't know the details, and I do not mean to make light of whatever it was that caused you problems. Look, we all have problems. It comes with breathing. There's no utopia, and all attempts to make one -- most recently, Pol Pot in Cambodia -- turn into horror. > >The sort of society you seem to be advocating here -- one > >which eschews tolerance and waits on decisions made > >for us by arbiters of what pass for "logic, fact, evidence, and > >truth" (or at least this particular historical moment's concept of > >same) -- is not one in which most of us would care to live. > No you've misunderstood me. First people need to be given the tools > with which to construct knowledge, as in education that teaches > children to learn and discover rather than copy. > I want people to make decisions for themselves based on whatever > they want, but when those decisions affect me I want them made on > the facts. Ah, yes, "the facts." If only we could all agree on what "the facts" are. That's why democracy is such a great idea. We all get to debate, freely, the finally unknowable and unanswerable questions. We even get to propose stupid solutions. > And so it should be with Ufology. > The notion that people should be able to believe whatever they > want is antisocial and anarchistic. Peoples beliefs invariably > result in actions of some kind. If someone decided to believe > that people with red hair should be killed and turned that belief > into action would you be so tolerant? Let's see here. On one hand, you're complaining that you have no "direct control" over decisions made by the government of your (to the understanding of the rest of the world, including most of your fellow citizens) admirable (if imperfect, like my American) democracy, meaning that it is really a dictatorship. On the other hand, you're complaining that your government doesn't live up to its dictatorial responsibilities because it fails to suppress those who believe things you don't like. The only possible inference is that you don't care much for democracy and all the messiness attendant to it. You and I have profound differences there. Incidentally, your analogy is ludicrously inept. All governments -- democratic, feudal, totalitarian -- have laws against murder. Even in North Korea, arguably the most repressive regime on the planet, there are laws on the books to discourage you from killing your fellows. At the same time you don't have to scrap democratic values and freedoms to prevent mass murder of "people with red hair." Come on, my friend. Let's be serious. > You see my concern is not that people can believe anything they want, but actions that can result from from unfettered belief. > Dave Everett. Give me unfettered belief -- coupled with personal responsibility and a civil society, with laws that both respect free expression and keep us from killing each other -- against the authoritarian rule you seem to favor. Any time. And I am sincerely sorry about your problems. I have no doubt that you're a good guy, even if you're full of bad ideas. I am relieved that you're not in any position to make decisions about what the rest of us can think. Go to your local library, look up the U.S. Constitution, and read the First Amendment. It's one of the world's great ideas. Jerry Clark [Dave, that's it on this topic - 'kay? - ebk] Search for other documents from or mentioning: clark | deverett |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: "Stay honest!" From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 20:46:47 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 00:23:18 -0400 Subject: Re: "Stay honest!" On Mon, 1 Sep 1997, UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 18:05:36 -0400 > From: "H. Buck Buchanan" <buck7@raex.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: "Stay honest!" > For anyone interested in reading up on the "UMMO" affair, it's covered > by Jacques Vallee in his book, "Revelations". I'm sure there are other > sources of info on it, but unfortunately not in my library. For whatever > it's worth... > Buck Wendelle Stevens has a 352-page book on just that subject, entitled _UFO Contact from Planet UMMO: An Ongoing Mystery_. I don't know if he has any copies left in print or not. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: Some questions for a relitive newbie From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 00:15:00 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 00:25:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Some questions for a relitive newbie > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/1/97 8:17 PM: > Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 17:40:38 -0500 > From: Arctic Fox <ufologik@usa.net> [Michael C. McCann] > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Some questions for a relitive newbie > Ok, here's a few questions I have, they'll probably sound odd but > please bear with me. > 1) Does Energy have a definate form, or more precisely light? > IT seens to me that almost all Nocturnal Lights (NLs) have a > sphere shape(Earth Lights,ball lightning, etc.). Any object which is luminous and is at some distance is a Nocturnal Light. There are many NLs which are elliptical, cigar, and disk shaped - of course there are also triangular objects which seem to bear lights, which would also qualify as NLs. UFO luminosity, based on close encounters and photos, appears to be a relatively thin layer of atmospheric ionization on the surface of the object, while the commonly reported lights and portholes MAY be jets of a similar nature (as described, for instance, in the 1959 Blenheim NZ case). > 2) Where can I find good quality information on Physical and EM > effects left by UFOs? You can consult the Project 1947 and Magonia catalogs at my web site http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman/47emecat.htm http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman/magonia.htm or the Eye and Skin Irritation paper at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman/eyeskin.htm You should also visit the "Science, Logic, and the UFO Debate" site at http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/ The websites for CUFOS, MUFON, and FUFOR offer additional information, mostly in paper publications http://www.cufos.org http://www.mufon.org http://www.fufor.org > 3) Also looking for some good places to purchase GOOD UFO books, most > of the stuff here in TN is New Age junk, in fact the only good > books I've seen here are 2 by Kevin Randle. Visit http://www.amazon.com They ship anywhere, even TN. I highly recommend Paul Hill's "Unconventional Flying Objects". ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 06:30:39 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 00:41:02 -0400 Subject: Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media >Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 06:52:57 -0500 >From: Ron Decker <ron_decker@wavebbs.com> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Medi >> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:12:33 +1000 >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media >> >From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net >> >> CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media big snip >Why is it that the strict materialists don't recognize that their >materialism is as much based on faith as the beliefs of snake handlers >and poison-drinkers? > Ron Decker. I have been thinking about that and I think I have a clue. The reason for not recognising their own beliefs is fear. People like members of CSICOP fear everything that seems to shatter their rigid belief systems. They need these belief systems as a way to have an intellectural and emotional grip on the world. They not only fear UFOs (Ufophobia) but also things like telepathy and telekinesis, in other words everything that high school teachers label as unscientific, no matter what the evidence is and no matter what new insights scientists in real laboratories have already reached. Recently I debated someone who calls himself a UFO skeptic here in the Netherlands. He has written a book about UFOs for the Dutch arm of publisher Prometheus. He not only proclaimed in this debate that there was no evidence for UFOs as extraterrestrial spaceships - quite untenable after I pointed out the evidence - but also mentioned that he didn't believe the Holocaust had taken place. Also, in one of his earlier writings he stated that John F. Kennedy was killed by Lee Harvey Oswald and by Oswald alone. This set me thinking. These people simply have no capacity to accept facts that are disturbing and this explains their behavior, their crusades and their lies. I can't imagine that there isn't a clinical label for this mental state that produces Ufophobia as one of its side effects. Perhaps we should point out to everyone who wants to listen that these people have a mental or emotional problem with this kind of data. ____________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm e-mail: hvdp@worldonline.nl web: http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp Leiden, The Netherlands \__________________________________________/ Search for other documents from or mentioning: hvdp | ron_decker |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: Behind American Computers - Addendum 3 From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 07:31:11 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 09:36:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Behind American Computers - Addendum 3 >Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 20:23:18 -0400 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Behind American Computers - Addendum 3 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Regarding... >>Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 14:35:31 -0700 >>From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) >>Subject: Re: Behind American Computers - Addendum 3 >Jared wrote: >http://www.american-computer.com/ >>New information on the American Computer Co. investigation. >[...] >>According to AC's research into the patents from the transistor and >>the integrated circuit they claimed to have come across some >>anecdotal information which suggested there was a dispute or >>challenge to the patent that claimed the materials came from a weapon >>being tested in the desert in 1947. James Easton wrote: >The transistor was first demonstrated to senior management on either >23 or 24 December 1947. It was the result of a lengthy research >project into the use of semiconductors as an alternative to vacuum >tubes. >I believe Bell Labs had invested some 3 million dollars in research >and by the time the supposed Roswell bounty fell from the sky, much >of that work had been completed. I had highlighted the background in >an earlier discussion and wrote: James, where did you read that? And when did this project start? >"Some time previously, while investigating the failure of radar >diodes, they had noticed a "transistor effect" and suspected that >small changes in current were taking place. They theorised that a >suitable medium would produce active electronic effects and when they >passed current through an N-type germanium crystal, they demonstrated >the principle of amplifying an electrical current using a solid >semiconducting material. >Their concept was based on the fact that it is possible to selectively >control the flow of electricity through silicon, designating some >areas as current conductors and adjacent areas as insulators. The >point-contact transistor amplifier became the building block for all >modern electronics and the foundation for microchip and computer >technology". What are your sources, James? Please quote author, publication and date. >There's considerable historical material available on the development >of the transistor and a recommended source on the technical >perspective is the weighty: >"A History of Technology" >Edited by Trevor I. Williams If this is your source, do you know where Williams is basing this knowledge on? ____________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm e-mail: hvdp@worldonline.nl web: http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp Leiden, The Netherlands \__________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 2 Arizona UFO Analysis - MUFON Baywatch Newsletter From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 00:45:07 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 10:02:28 -0400 Subject: Arizona UFO Analysis - MUFON Baywatch Newsletter Dan Geib posted this over at UFC. By Andrew Brockinton and Terry Rodemerk MUFON Baywatch Newsletter At around 8:00 PM on March 13, 1997, lights were sighted in the sky over Phoenix, Arizona. There have been numerous reports written about the sighting and many theories bantered about as to what it was that moved over the night sky in Phoenix. Numerous people video taped the events and these tapes have been analyzed and re-analyzed in an attempt to explain the phenomena. Some of these analyses have lead to a chevron shaped vehicle, some alluded to being a much larger ship, and the government official explanation is that it was flares from the nearby Estralle Air National Guard bombing range which lies southwest of Phoenix on the southwest side of the Estralle Mountains. In our analysis, we utilized the video by Mike Krzyston taken from the top of Mt. Ridge and scanned in several still photographs using an Amiga 1200 AGA computer with DCTV video frame grabber and ImageFX software for photo analysis. Our analysis leads us to theorize that the MUFON article stating that they are flares is erroneous. From enlargements of the single lights, they do not appear to be flares. To verify this, we have a photo taken over Houston, Texas at night of a flare in the sky, and the two pictures do not look anything alike. In addition, from our analysis the lights in the Phoenix films appear to be maneuvering jets along the same lines as the nozzle jets of the liquid fuel rockets on the NASA's shuttles. Whether these are liquid fuel jets like the shuttle, ion propulsion or plasma propulsion, we cannot determine that at this time. Yet, looking at the pictures that show this, tends to lead us to believe they are a form of ion plasma, they trail off much like the aurora borealis does. Watching the film you can see that it is one large ship rotating on a center axis using maneuvering jets of some kind, possibly ion-plasma propulsion, to turn a larger ship that was in between the Estrella Mountains and the Phoenix South Mountains area in the southwest area of Phoenix. It may be that the only reason the people could see the lights at all, is that this was a course correction maneuver done by the craft's navigational system to fly between the South Mountains and the Estrella Mountain range. This places the craft on a direct line of flight to Casa Grande and then Tucson along US Interstate 10. Sightings of a large object were reported in both these locations within an hour after the Phoenix sightings and also by motorists along US Interstate 10. The analysis in the July 1997 MUFON JOURNAL places the so-called flares being behind the Estrella Mountains, which appears to be too far away to be the actual location. Analysis of other photos have shown the faint outlines of 4337 foot Montezuma Peak, the highest point in the Estrella range, behind the lights. This demonstrates the craft to be a good mile to mile and a half closer than their location under the military flares theory. If we place the craft on a Phoenix map, Montezuma Peak shows to be behind the lights in more than one of the pictures we scanned. Analysis of photos show that the lights move from lower right to upper left which is something that flares don't do. Also, it shows that these lights move in synchronous, clock-wise movement, something that the laws of physics would not allow a group of individual flares to do. This synchronous, clock-wise movement shows that the lights were connected to a single larger object being acted upon by a propulsion system, i.e. the lights seen. A more detailed presentation of our analysis will be given at the August 16th MUFON meeting, and we urge those of you who have conducted your own analysis to share your findings.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: HONEYBE100@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 04:40:42 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 10:06:02 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >Date: Wed.27 Aug.1997 11:15:09 -0700 >From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> >To: UFO UpDatess <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity Hello everyone! Scott Hale wrote: >List, >The recent posts regarding Linda Cortile have compelled me to >share my opinion on this issue. I'm not sure how Linda's ident- >ity got compromised, but it is a real shame. She has the right >to a life free of UFO researchers calling her at all hours, writing >her, etc. >Some people (Jim Moseley) always pointed out her real last name >figuring that now that some people know it, why not let everybody >in on the secret. Regardless of your opinions of Linda and her >case, she has a right to privacy. People trust us with their infor- >mation and in doing so, risk ridicule from both other UFO research- >ers as well as the public at large. If this disturbing trend continues, >less witnesses will come forward. >The bottom line should be that if you have an anonymous witness, >they should stay that way. My congratulations to Linda on her >son's small role in, "Two Bits!" >Regards, >Scott K. Hale Scott: First, I want to thank you for your sympathetic and logical post. It makes me feel good to know that most of you feel the same way. As human beings, we all have a right to be free of stalkers and pests, etc. As civilized people, each of us should respect the rights of others. In America, we have certain amendments we abide by. However, if someone gets hurt in the process, whether they make money or not, those rights are lost. Some folks have forgotten that I have not written the "Witnessed" book. Budd Hopkins did, with my permission to insure the safety of my family and me. Still, danger and ridicule lurked and showed it's ugly face throughout the process. In 1992, a male abductee named Richard Butler (who I was acquainted with from Budd Hopkins support group) released my real name to Jim Moseley. This abductee apparently wasn't getting enough of Hopkins' attention for the reason that Budd was investigating my case. A lot more had happened after that, as things went from bad to worse. My name, address and private phone number was released and posted on computer-electronic bulletin boards. Then, they passed along (in stages), disinformtion about my case. They used my family and me as a tool to get to Budd Hopkins. Some folks fell for the disinformation and some folks didn't and that's when the controversey started. Jim Moseley was the first to publish my real name in his newsletter. As far as pseudonyms are concerned, some people use them to hide something dark. But I used a pseudonym to protect my children and husband from ridicule in our neighborhood. As for me? Well yes, I treasure my privacy and I also have a good left hook. <G> Now we'll get down to the nitty-gritty of things. $$ MONEY $$ I never felt so used in my life! My case was bilked for 8 years by debunkers, researchers and journalists alike, as they wrote articles about my case in popular magazines and tabloids. (The MUFON Journal and IUR is not included). Not to mention, the small money received at conferences etc., when they talked about MY case. Also, I don't know if any of them were paid to talk about MY case on TV and radio, but the 5 or 6 times (in 7 or 8 years) I appeared in shadow on these shows, I wasn't paid. Scott, now you can understand why I appreciate people like you. Thanks again, Linda Cortile
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: American Computer Company corroborates Corso's From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 02:32:48 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 10:07:23 -0400 Subject: Re: American Computer Company corroborates Corso's Has anyone looked up the size of American Computer Company? I was not acquainted with them until they showed up on UFO Updates. Please save me the research if you know if they are a major player or a two person shop. I'm wondering what kind of credibility they have. Josh Goldstein
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: Question for KKK, CSICOP & Prometheus Books From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 02 Sep 97 08:52:47 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 10:09:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for KKK, CSICOP & Prometheus Books >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 21:36:57 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Question for KKK, CSICOP & Prometheus Books >I haven't seen Korff's book either. But why wouldn't FAIR USE to >come into play? Couldn't Korff use a couple of frames from the >footage in his book for a review? >When you did your research, did you check into fair use? I'm no >lawyer, but it seems to me that fair use would apply. >Anyway, I hope it all goes to court. I think we might get >something settled that way. Rebecca, I'm not a lawyer either, but I've discussed this with several that I know. Fair use generally is taken to apply to use by non-profit entities, or entities whose use does not deprive the owner of profit. I suppose the argument could be made that Korff has deprived Ray of some profit because many who buy the KKK book will then not go out and buy the video. Essentially, by claiming that the images are in the public domain, anyone who claims this is acknowledging the truth of the cameraman's story. Only if Jack's story is absolutely true are these images in the public domain. If Ray, or someone working for him, created these images, then they can not be public domain. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 10:28:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 10:21:11 -0400 Subject: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity >Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 21:12:09 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity [text deleted] >Linda _should be_ able to tell her story _and_ protect her family >at the same time. Intelligent folks should realize that the real >harm of exposure befalls her children and her husband. In >consideration of that mitigating circumstance in Linda's case, >(that she also happens to be a mother and a wife) there _should >be_ an unspoken agreement among those in the UFO community to help >her to protect her (requested) anonymity. The decision as to who >should be pulled out of the closet and who shouldn't is one that >none of us should make alone. IMHO, those who seek therapy or counseling to overcome (or learn to deal with) an abduction experience in their lives should be granted complete and total anonymity by their therapist (or whomever). However, once the line is crossed into the area of "investigation", then anonymity is much more difficult to maintain, and perhaps even justify. It is important that we maintain a clear understanding of the difference between "treatment" and "investigation" in relation to the abduction phenomenon. Those who decide to tell their tale should be warned of the problems that go along with public exposure, and should also be aware that once they have come forward, it is impossible to put the "Genie back in the bottle". Linda has every right to pursue this genre in any way she wants to, and can select to use a pseudonym on the "net" to protect her identity (as many seem to do on the "net" with much less reason). But her "story" has now become a part of the myth and will be debated endlessly. While there are many good and kind researchers in this genre, it is one of the last places that I would expect to find a "gentleman's agreement" that one could put much stock into.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 10:17:09 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 10:22:32 -0400 Subject: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity >Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 09:05:32 +1000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity >>From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] >>Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 12:26:40 -0500 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity >>> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 11:15:09 -0700 >>> From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> >>> To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >>> Subject: The question of UFO witness anonymity >>> List, >>> The bottom line should be that if you have an anonymous witness, >>> they should stay that way. My congratulations to Linda on her son's >>> small role in "Two Bits"! >>> Regards, >> >Scott K. Hale >>To All: >>I tend to disagree. I think as soon as a witness turns an event or >>sighting into a money making proposition they loose their right to >>anonymity. That simply allows a liar to hide. If they can take the >>money then they should take the heat. They must be held accountable for >>every word they say and write. >Well said. But it's a sad fact of Ufology that almost all testimony is >unfalsifiable, thus requiring the investigation into a persons credibility. >IMO credibility _should_ be irrelevant. >Take the recent weird claims about Stan Friedman that were posted here. >Friedman's credibility is unimportant, only the data should matter. > Dave Everett. Untrue. The quality of the messenger is important. If the man or woman has lied about other aspects of their lives, then what evidence do we have that he or she isn't lying about this new aspect. Without other forms of corroborating evidence, the quality of the messenger is very important. What good are the data if the provider of that data has lied about his or her background, qualifications, background, expertise, education or occupation? KRandle Search for other documents from or mentioning: krandle993 | deverett |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: Left at East Gate From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:41:34 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 22:50:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Left at East Gate Re: 'Left At East Gate', by Peter Robbins and Larry Warren A superb account of Larry Warrens encounter in December 1980 at Rendlesham Forest, Sufolk, whilst employed as a Security Policeman at the USAF controlled RAF Bentwaters. I'm sure you are all familiar with the case. While I am sure that the event did indeed take place, I am a little disturbed by one particular part of the book that deals with the transcript of two telephone conversations made by New York policeman and UFO investigator Larry Fawcett. The two witnesses concerned were Greg Battram and Adrian Bustinza, who were both at Rendlesham Forest on the same night as Larry Warren (pg. 134 - 157), and were also USAF personell. This is not a personal attack on Larry Fawcett, that is not the issue here, the issuue is with the interviewing technique adopted by Mr. Fawcett, in particular in the transcript of the conversation with Adrian Bustinza. Here is an example from page 139.... L.F. 'Larry (Warren) had told me in the beginning that he was at Bentwaters during the time of the incident and that he was on guard post and a jeep pulled up with a Lt. Englund and I believe yourself was in the Jeep.' A.B. 'Right'. L.F. 'Larry was told to get into the Jeep and from there you drove down to the motor pool I believe' A.B. 'Right'. L.F. 'And Lt. Englund told you to fill the light-alls' A.B. 'With gas' L.F. 'With gas. Now Larry said there was something screwy. He said "We filled those things up". And I think it was either Lt. Englund or Capt. Veranno that was there' A.B. 'It was, well, Lt. Englund was the one that was there' L.F. 'O.K.' One would be forgiven for thinking that maybe Larry Fawcett was the one being interviewed! Another point here is that prior to this particular conversation between Fawcett and Bustinza, no mention had been made regarding the two Officers, Englund and Verrano, until Fawcett named them, thereby leading the subject to remember names he may have forgotten. Note the semi- hesitant reply from Bustinza, "It was, well, Lt. Englund was the one that was there". Well we all know that, because Larry Fawcett had TOLD Bustinza he was there! Note also, the lack of question marks by the interviewer, giving the impression that the subject was supposed to agree with the line of questioning. Maybe Larry Fawcett was too eager in his bid to extract information from a witness who, by the sound of things, probably had already forgotten details that Warren had etched into his memory on that night. Maybe Bustinza saw things differently to Larry Warren. It's a well known fact that witnesses to UFO sightings and indeed, witnesses to crimes, never see exactly the same thing and this needs to be accepted. There is no point trying to lead someone into saying the things you want to hear, just to get a 'favourable' response, that is just unproductive and leaves you open to debunkers and those who pour scorn on a subject that deserves a lot more serious attention than it receives at present. Peter Robbins and Larry Warren have produced a book that should send shivers down the spines of those who read it. UFO related publications are not read just by people who believe, they're read by those who don't as well, mainly to pick holes and scoff, and given the chance, scoff they will. It is down to Ufologists all over the world to get these stories out into the public domain, but our priority must be unbiased reporting of all known facts in all cases, no matter how eager we are to substantiate a sighting. Credibility speaks volumes in this game, and that is something we must promote. Jerry Anderson UFOMEK (UK) ufomek@netcomuk.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: Behind American Computers - Addendum 3 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 09:38:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 22:47:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Behind American Computers - Addendum 3 > Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 07:31:11 +0200 (MET DST) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Behind American Computers - Addendum 3 > >Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 20:23:18 -0400 > >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> > >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Behind American Computers - Addendum 3 > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Regarding... > >>Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 14:35:31 -0700 > >>From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) > >>Subject: Re: Behind American Computers - Addendum 3 > >Jared wrote: > >http://www.american-computer.com/ > >>New information on the American Computer Co. investigation. > >"A History of Technology" > >Edited by Trevor I. Williams > If this is your source, do you know where Williams is basing > this knowledge on? You mean, "What is your source's source"? Then what about the source's, source's source, and how far does one go _down_ that road before admitting a willingness to adjust a world view. Sometimes we are so caught up with not wanting to appear the fool we overlook tools that don't conform to the tried and true. If I thought for a second that the alien technology hypothesis would get any kind of unhindered investigation from *real* science, I wouldn't say a WORD. Lehmberg@snowhill.com -- Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for not worrying overmuch about appearing foolish. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" Personal HARASSMENT; however, the harassment index is infinite for each of us. Consider the our inconsistent, vacuous, and incomplete history! Search for other documents from or mentioning: lehmberg | hvdp | pulsar
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: Arizona UFO Analysis - Questions From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 11:28:17 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 22:57:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Arizona UFO Analysis - Questions > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/2/97 10:02 AM: > Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 00:45:07 -0700 > From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) > To: Updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Arizona UFO Analysis > Dan Geib posted this over at UFC. > By Andrew Brockinton and Terry Rodemerk MUFON Baywatch Newsletter ... > In our analysis, we utilized the video by Mike Krzyston taken from the > top of Mt. Ridge and scanned in several still photographs using an > Amiga 1200 AGA computer with DCTV video frame grabber and ImageFX > software for photo analysis. Our analysis leads us to theorize that > the MUFON article stating that they are flares is erroneous. From > enlargements of the single lights, they do not appear to be flares. To > verify this, we have a photo taken over Houston, Texas at night of a > flare in the sky, and the two pictures do not look anything alike. > In addition, from our analysis the lights in the Phoenix films appear > to be maneuvering jets along the same lines as the nozzle jets of the > liquid fuel rockets on the NASA's shuttles. Whether these are liquid > fuel jets like the shuttle, ion propulsion or plasma propulsion, we > cannot determine that at this time. Yet, looking at the pictures that > show this, tends to lead us to believe they are a form of ion plasma, > they trail off much like the aurora borealis does. To what extent have the analysts taken into account the following: NTSC video has a fringing effect, which is caused by the inability of the colors to change radically from pixel to pixel. Videotape and photographs have very different resolutions, so comparison between a photo of a flare and a videotape may not be valid. Possible sampling errors due to the limited resolution of video, the movement of the camera, and the scintillation caused by atmospheric turbulence (all noticable in the video in question). > Watching the film you can see that it is one large ship rotating on a > center axis using maneuvering jets of some kind, possibly ion-plasma > propulsion, to turn a larger ship that was in between the Estrella > Mountains and the Phoenix South Mountains area in the southwest area > of Phoenix. I am not clear on what this means. Does this imply that there is a "tugboat"? > It may be that the only reason the people could see the lights at all, > is that this was a course correction maneuver done by the craft's > navigational system to fly between the South Mountains and the > Estrella Mountain range. This places the craft on a direct line of > flight to Casa Grande and then Tucson along US Interstate 10. > Sightings of a large object were reported in both these locations > within an hour after the Phoenix sightings and also by motorists along > US Interstate 10. I have not seen any evidence from the video implying any kind of motion at all. Have I missed something? > Analysis of photos show that the lights move from lower right to upper > left which is something that flares don't do. Also, it shows that > these lights move in synchronous, clock-wise movement, something that > the laws of physics would not allow a group of individual flares to > do. This synchronous, clock-wise movement shows that the lights were > connected to a single larger object being acted upon by a propulsion > system, i.e. the lights seen. Have corrections for the camera movement been applied prior to this analysis? How were they performed? ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: Some questions for a relitive newbie From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 14:29:47 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 22:59:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Some questions for a relitive newbie > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Some questions for a relitive newbie > Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 00:15:00 -0700 Major snip..just to make a point. > I highly recommend Paul Hill's "Unconventional Flying Objects". > ------- > Mark Cashman Hi Mark and hello List, Back in the Fall of '96 I mentioned Paul R. Hill's book "Unconventional Fly Objects" as one of the best I had read on the flight charateristics and possible motivating forces of UFOs. I am glad to see that this man's conciderable expertize in these areas is finally being recognized and used as references now when the UFO phenomena is being discussed. Mark is right in his recommendation of Hill's book. It is one to be owned and read over and over again for its scientific content. Mr. Hill did a great service to the cause of Ufology when he at least put us on the road to plausible explanations of UFO technology and their habits. As an unofficial clearing house for UFO sightings at NASA I would suspect that Mr. Hill had a great deal of material that he accumulated over the years from sources we have not been privy to. It would be interesting to know what happened to it and if there was any possibility that it is in the hands of his widow. Those who have read Mr. Hill's book will know of Hill's connection to NASA. Regards, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 2 Ex-Hippie Guru Fights Extradition From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 13:34:46 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 23:01:49 -0400 Subject: Ex-Hippie Guru Fights Extradition --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Ex-Hippie Guru Fights Extradition Date: 97-09-02 11:55:56 EDT From: AOL News .c The Associated Press By CHRISTOPHER BURNS BORDEAUX, France (AP) - Lawyers for a former hippie guru today fought a U.S. extradition request for the 1977 murder of his girlfriend, arguing that Ira Einhorn could face the death penalty if sent back to the United States. With a long gray goatee, a light-blue shortsleeve shirt and blue jeans, a tanned Einhorn listened as his lawyers tried to persuade the Court of Appeals to reject the American request. Einhorn took the stand, arguing U.S. authorities were out to get him for being a peace activist and a ``psychic weaponry'' developer, and for trying to help communist Yugoslavia seek contact with the West in the late 1970s. ``I probably know more about this weaponry than anyone else in the world,'' he said. His lawyers gently cut short his rambling monologue. U.S. authorities want Einhorn to return to serve a life sentence after being convicted in absentia in 1993. But Dominique Delthil, one of Einhorn's lawyers, said French law says that ``anyone found guilty in absentia must be retried.'' Delthil said that under such circumstances Einhorn would face execution, which has been abolished in France. Despite the plea, France's extradition treaty does not prevent it from turning over people who might face execution back home. Einhorn was arrested June 13 at a converted mill in southwestern France where he lived as an English author with his Swedish companion since 1993. It was the same year a Philadelphia court convicted him in absentia of killing Holly Maddux and stuffing her body in a steamer trunk police found in a closet at his home. French justice authorities said the U.S. request that Einhorn return to serve his life sentence for the conviction was appropriate and asked for a ``favorable ruling.'' Delthil said Einhorn skipped bail and fled the United States in 1979 out of fear of an unfair trial. He said Einhorn would stand little chance of being acquitted in a retrial and showed presiding Judge Claude Arrighi U.S. newspapers with the headlines ``The Ugly American'' and ``Lady Killer.'' ``Is France strong enough to refuse the extradition?'' Dominique Tricaud, another Einhorn lawyer, asked the court. He referred to a ``new world order'' dominated by the United States. Judge Arrighi said he would rule on the extradition request at a hearing Sept. 23. Einhorn remains in custody. Einhorn grinned as Tricaud described him as a ``leading anti-war activist, an anti-militarist and a subversive intellectual'' who U.S. authorities were out to get. ``Nothing can be done by your court to prevent the death penalty from being pronounced,'' Tricaud said. Einhorn told the court he spent ``all of my time working for peace. I was known as a peacemaker ... (who) stopped riots in my neighborhood and at the University of Pennsylvania.'' Einhorn was known as a guru for prominent people in the United States and overseas, with links to British singer Peter Gabriel and business leaders. He described how he started a peaceful ecology movement, and was developing weaponry involving a ``psychic component.'' Materials on the technology, he said, he ``kept in the trunk where my girlfriend's body was found.'' Einhorn said that shortly after returning from Yugoslavia, where he met with officials seeking closer contact with the West, ``my life ended.'' Police seeking evidence in the slaying of his girlfriend searched his apartment and ``everything disappeared.'' ``I was in despair. I didn't know what to do with my life, and I left the United States,'' he said. Anika Flodkin, Einhorn's companion, attended the hearing but declined to comment. AP-NY-09-02-97 0718EDT Copyright 1997 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 12:25:19 PDT Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 23:04:01 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > From: HONEYBE100@aol.com > Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 04:40:42 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > >Date: Wed.27 Aug.1997 11:15:09 -0700 > >From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> > >To: UFO UpDatess <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > Hello everyone! > Scott Hale wrote: > >List, > >The recent posts regarding Linda Cortile have compelled me to > >share my opinion on this issue. I'm not sure how Linda's ident- > >ity got compromised, but it is a real shame. She has the right > >to a life free of UFO researchers calling her at all hours, writing > >her, etc. > >Some people (Jim Moseley) always pointed out her real last name > >figuring that now that some people know it, why not let everybody > >in on the secret. Regardless of your opinions of Linda and her > >case, she has a right to privacy. People trust us with their infor- > >mation and in doing so, risk ridicule from both other UFO research- > >ers as well as the public at large. If this disturbing trend continues, > >less witnesses will come forward. > >The bottom line should be that if you have an anonymous witness, > >they should stay that way. My congratulations to Linda on her > >son's small role in, "Two Bits!" > >Regards, > >Scott K. Hale > Scott: > First, I want to thank you for your sympathetic and logical post. > It makes me feel good to know that most of you feel the same > way. As human beings, we all have a right to be free of stalkers > and pests, etc. As civilized people, each of us should respect > the rights of others. In America, we have certain amendments > we abide by. However, if someone gets hurt in the process, > whether they make money or not, those rights are lost. Some > folks have forgotten that I have not written the "Witnessed" book. > Budd Hopkins did, with my permission to insure the safety of my > family and me. Still, danger and ridicule lurked and showed it's > ugly face throughout the process. > In 1992, a male abductee named Richard Butler (who I was > acquainted with from Budd Hopkins support group) released my > real name to Jim Moseley. This abductee apparently wasn't > getting enough of Hopkins' attention for the reason that Budd was > investigating my case. A lot more had happened after that, as > things went from bad to worse. My name, address and private > phone number was released and posted on computer-electronic > bulletin boards. Then, they passed along (in stages), disinformtion > about my case. They used my family and me as a tool to get to > Budd Hopkins. Some folks fell for the disinformation and some > folks didn't and that's when the controversey started. > Jim Moseley was the first to publish my real name in his newsletter. > As far as pseudonyms are concerned, some people use them to hide > something dark. But I used a pseudonym to protect my children and > husband from ridicule in our neighborhood. As for me? Well yes, I > treasure my privacy and I also have a good left hook. <G> > Now we'll get down to the nitty-gritty of things. $$ MONEY $$ I never > felt so used in my life! My case was bilked for 8 years by debunkers, > researchers and journalists alike, as they wrote articles about my case > in popular magazines and tabloids. (The MUFON Journal and IUR is not > included). Not to mention, the small money received at conferences > etc., when they talked about MY case. Also, I don't know if any of > them were paid to talk about MY case on TV and radio, but the 5 or 6 > times (in 7 or 8 years) I appeared in shadow on these shows, I wasn't > paid. > Scott, now you can understand why I appreciate people like you. > Thanks again, > Linda Cortile Scott, Linda, and everybody, It should be noted, as I don't think anyone has yet, that there are plenty of precedents for books (in all sorts of fields) where a principal (or even THE principal) figure is identified only by a pseudonym to protect him or her from unwanted attention, harassment, character assassination, or ridicule. Linda Cortile has had more than her share of all of the above. I'm amazed that she's been able to keep humor and perspective through it all. If a UFO witness requests anonymity, it is our ethical responsibility to guarantee it and protect it. Period. Jerry Clark Search for other documents from or mentioning: clark | honeybe100 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 02 Sep 97 08:52:49 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 23:05:41 -0400 Subject: Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media >Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 06:30:39 +0200 (MET DST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@GLOBALSERVE.NET> >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media >I have been thinking about that and I think I have a clue. The reason >for not recognising their own beliefs is fear. People like members of >CSICOP fear everything that seems to shatter their rigid belief systems. >They need these belief systems as a way to have an intellectural >and emotional grip on the world. They not only fear UFOs (Ufophobia) >but also things like telepathy and telekinesis, in other words >everything that high school teachers label as unscientific, no >matter what the evidence is and no matter what new insights scientists >in real laboratories have already reached. >Recently I debated someone who calls himself a UFO skeptic here in the >Netherlands. He has written a book about UFOs for the Dutch arm >of publisher Prometheus. He not only proclaimed in this debate that >there was no evidence for UFOs as extraterrestrial spaceships - >quite untenable after I pointed out the evidence - but also >mentioned that he didn't believe the Holocaust had taken place. >Also, in one of his earlier writings he stated that >John F. Kennedy was killed by Lee Harvey Oswald and by Oswald alone. >This set me thinking. These people simply have no capacity to accept >facts that are disturbing and this explains their behavior, their >crusades and their lies. I can't imagine that there isn't a clinical >label for this mental state that produces Ufophobia as one of its >side effects. >Perhaps we should point out to everyone who wants to listen that >these people have a mental or emotional problem with this kind >of data. Henny, Very astute observation. I've long thought that the compulsive debunker is dealing from a position of terror. (I wonder how many of them are abductees??) Actually, I propose we call this condition CDD, Compulsive Debunking Disorder. Your debate sounds interesting. It is generally impossible to debate these people, though. On another forum I was trying to debate a CSICOP-OUT member, and he ultimately resorted to personal attack and name calling, and when that didn't work he simply fled the forum. You can't have a true debate with someone like that. But if you look at what they call themselves: Committee for Scientific Investigation of CLAIMS of the Paranormal; you will see the built-in prejudice. Why didn't they call themselves Committe for Scientific Investigation of the Paranormal? Because they know there IS NONE. Knowing this, they must force square pegs into round, oval, hexagonal, trapezoidal, etc., holes to make their cases. I propose founding a new organization called CSIPOOP, Committee for Scientifically Investigating People Obviously Obsessed with Power, and make them our first case study! Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 2 Astronaut Story Musgrave Retires from NASA From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 14:48:18 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 23:06:46 -0400 Subject: Astronaut Story Musgrave Retires from NASA Jennifer McCarter September 2, 1997 Headquarters, Washington, DC (Phone: 202/358-1639) Eileen Hawley Johnson Space Center, Houston, TX (Phone: 281/483-5111) RELEASE: 97-188 ASTRONAUT STORY MUSGRAVE RETIRES FROM NASA Veteran astronaut F. Story Musgrave retired from NASA today to pursue private interests in the communications industry. Musgrave's NASA career spanned the Apollo era to the Space Shuttle program into initial development of spacewalk strategies for the International Space Station. "Throughout the Shuttle program, from its earliest stages to the present, Story has been instrumental in developing the techniques crew members use to perform spacewalks," said David C. Leestma, director of Flight Crew Operations. "His knowledge, expertise and friendship will be sorely missed." Musgrave, 62, joined NASA in 1967 and is a veteran of six Space Shuttle flights, having spent more than 1,281 hours in space. He first flew on STS-6 in 1983, the maiden voyage of Challenger. During that flight Musgrave and fellow astronaut Don Peterson conducted the first spacewalk of the Shuttle era. His other Shuttle flights include STS-51F aboard Challenger in 1985, STS-33 on board Discovery in 1989, STS-44 on Atlantis in 1991, and STS-61, the first Hubble Space Telescope Servicing mission aboard Endeavour in 1991, and finally STS-80 on Columbia in 1996. With STS-80, Musgrave became the oldest person ever to fly in space. For complete biographical information on Musgrave and other astronauts, see the NASA Internet astronaut biography home page at address: http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/. -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Tue, 02 Sep 97 14:28:11 cst Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 23:08:43 -0400 Subject: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity >Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 11:15:09 -0700 >From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> >To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: The question of UFO witness anonymity >List, >The recent posts regarding Linda Cortile have compelled me to share >my opinion on this issue. I'm not sure how Linda's identity got >compromised, but it is a real shame. She has the right to a life free of >UFO researchers calling her at all hours, writing her, ect. >Some people(Jim Moseley) always point out her real last name >figuring that now that some people know it, why not let everybody in on >the secret. Regardless of your opinions of Linda and her case she has a >right to privacy. People trust us with their information and in doing so >risk ridicule from both other UFO researchers as well as the public at >large. If this disturbing trend continues less witnesses will come >forward. >The bottom line should be that if you have an anonymous witness, >they should stay that way. My congratulations to Linda on her son's >small role in "Two Bits"! What Scott says about invasion of privacy to 'anonymous witnesses' is true. But when people claim to have observed startling, even historic anomalous events and expect others to believe them without question, shouldn't these 'eyewitnesses' have enough courage of their convictions to allow the use of their real names? Isn't anything less just hearsay? Isn't the challenge of correcting our old mistaken perceptions of 'reality' important enough to suffer the temporary aggravations and annoyances of being "outted?" This is my problem with the entire Linda/Dan/Richard/Perez de Cuellar scenario. If the events of the Linda case are true, I would think the nuisances of the skeptics and debunkers would be trivial compared to the historical importance of revealing the truth -- on the record and naming names. That _all_ of the players (other than Linda who still resents being named publicly) in this scenario have refused to go public indicates either that these putative players grossly underestimate the importance of the events they claim to have witnessed, or that they're insufferably wimpish -- or else it's all just a hoax. Is there any difference between the primary players avoiding publicity in this case and someone who witnesses a murder but won't report it to the police because they "don't want to get involved?" Regards, Vince Search for other documents from or mentioning:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 2 Two Voyager Spacecraft Still Going Strong After 20 From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 16:12:52 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 23:09:50 -0400 Subject: Two Voyager Spacecraft Still Going Strong After 20 Donald Savage Headquarters, Washington, DC September 2, 1997 (Phone: 202/358-1547) Mary Hardin Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA (Phone: 818/354-5011) RELEASE: 97-189 TWO VOYAGER SPACECRAFT STILL GOING STRONG AFTER 20 YEARS Twenty years after their launch and long after their planetary reconnaissance flybys have been completed, both Voyager spacecraft are now gaining on another milestone -- crossing that invisible boundary that separates our solar system from interstellar space, the heliopause. Since 1989 when Voyager 2 encountered Neptune, both spacecraft have been studying the environment of space in the outer solar system. Science instruments on both spacecraft are sensing signals that scientists believe are coming from the heliopause -- the outermost edge of the Sun's magnetic field that the spacecraft must pass through before they reach interstellar space. "During their first two decades, the Voyager spacecraft have had an unequaled journey of discovery. Today, even though Voyager 1 is now more than twice as far from the Sun as Neptune, their journey is only half over, and more unique opportunities for discovery await the spacecraft as they head toward interstellar space," said Dr. Edward Stone, the Voyager project scientist and director of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA. "The Voyagers owe their ability to operate at such great distances from the Sun to their nuclear electric power sources which provide the electrical power they need to function." The Sun emits a steady flow of electrically charged particles called the solar wind. As the solar wind expands supersonically into space, it creates a magnetized bubble around the Sun, called the heliosphere. Eventually, the solar wind encounters the electrically charged particles and magnetic field in the interstellar gas. The boundary created between the solar wind and interstellar gas is the heliopause. Before the spacecraft reach the heliopause, they will pass through the termination shock -- the place where the solar wind abruptly slows down from supersonic to subsonic speed. Reaching the termination shock and heliopause will be major milestones for the spacecraft because no one has been there before and the Voyagers will gather the first direct evidence of their structure. Encountering the termination shock and heliopause has been a long sought-after goal for many space physicists, and exactly where these two boundaries are located and what they are like still remains a mystery. "Based on current data from the Voyager cosmic ray subsystem, we are predicting the termination shock to be in the range of 62 to 90 astronomical units (AU) from the Sun. Most 'consensus' estimates are currently converging on about 85 AU. Voyager 1 is currently at about 67 AU and moving outwards at 3.5 AU per year, so I would expect crossing the termination shock sometime before the end of 2003," said Dr. Alan Cummings, a co-investigator on the cosmic ray subsystem at the California Institute of Technology. "Based on a radio emission event detected by the Voyager 1 and 2 plasma wave instruments in 1992, we estimate that the heliopause is located from 110 to 160 AU from the Sun," said Dr. Donald A. Gurnett, principal investigator on the plasma wave subsystem at the University of Iowa. (One AU is equal to 93 million miles (150 million kilometers), or the distance from the Earth to the Sun.) "The low-energy charged particle instruments on the two spacecraft continue to detect ions and electrons accelerated at the Sun and at huge shock waves, tens of AU in radius, that are driven outward through the solar wind. During the past five years, we have observed marked variations in this ion population, but have yet to see clear evidence of the termination shock. We should always keep in mind that our theories may be incomplete and the shock may be a lot farther out than we think," said Dr. Stamatios M. Krimigis, principal investigator for the low energy charged particle subsystem at The Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory. Voyager 2 was launched first on Aug. 20, 1977, and Voyager 1 was launched a few weeks later on a faster trajectory on Sept. 5. Initially, both spacecraft were only supposed to explore two planets -- Jupiter and Saturn. But the incredible success of those two first encounters and the good health of the spacecraft prompted NASA to extend Voyager 2's mission to Uranus and Neptune. As the spacecraft flew across the solar system, remote-control reprogramming has given the Voyagers greater capabilities than they possessed when they left the Earth. There are four other science instruments that are still functioning and collecting data as part of the Voyager Interstellar Mission. The plasma subsystem measures the protons in the solar wind. "Our instrument has recently observed a slow, year-long increase in the speed of the solar wind which peaked in late 1996, and we are now observing a slow decrease in solar wind velocity," said Dr. John Richardson, of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, principal investigator on the plasma subsystem. "We think the velocity peak coincided with the recent solar minimum. As we approach the solar maximum in 2000, the solar wind pressure should decrease, which will result in the termination shock and heliopause moving inward towards the Voyager spacecraft." The magnetometer instrument onboard the Voyagers measures the magnetic fields that are carried out into interplanetary space by the solar wind. The Voyagers are currently measuring the weakest interplanetary magnetic fields ever detected and those magnetic fields being measured are responsive to charged particles that cannot be detected directly by any other instruments on the spacecraft, according to Dr. Norman Ness, principal investigator on the magnetometer subsystem at the Bartol Research Institute, University of Delaware. Other science instruments still collecting data include the planetary radio astronomy subsystem and the ultraviolet spectrometer subsystem. Voyager 1 encountered Jupiter on March 5, 1979, and Saturn on Nov. 12, 1980, and then, because its trajectory was designed to fly close to Saturn's large moon Titan, Voyager 1's path was bent northward by Saturn's gravity sending the spacecraft out of the ecliptic plane, the plane in which all the planets but Pluto orbit the Sun. Voyager 2 arrived at Jupiter on July 9, 1979, and Saturn on Aug. 25, 1981, and was then sent on to Uranus on Jan. 25, 1986, and Neptune on Aug. 25, 1989. Neptune's gravity bent Voyager 2's path southward sending it also out of the ecliptic plane and on toward interstellar space. Both spacecraft have enough electrical power and attitude control propellant to continue operating until about 2020 when the available electrical power will no longer support science instrument operation. Spacecraft electrical power is supplied by Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generators (RTGs) that provided approximately 470 watts of power at launch. Due to the natural radioactive decay of the plutonium fuel source, the electrical energy provided by the RTGs is continually declining. At the beginning of 1997, the power generated by Voyager 1 had dropped to 334 watts and to 336 watts for Voyager 2. Both of these power levels represent better performance than had been predicted before launch. The Voyagers are now so far from home that it takes nine hours for a radio signal traveling at the speed of light to reach the spacecraft. Science data are returned to Earth in real-time to the 34-meter Deep Space Network antennas located in California, Australia and Spain. Voyager 1 will pass the Pioneer 10 spacecraft in January 1998 to become the most distant human-made object in our solar system. Voyager 1 is currently 6.3 billion miles (10.1 billion kilometers) from Earth, having traveled 7.4 billion miles (11.9 billion kilometers) since its launch. The Voyager 1 spacecraft is departing the solar system at a speed of 39,000 miles per hour (17.4 kilometers per second). Voyager 2 is currently 4.9 billion miles (7.9 billion kilometers) from Earth, having traveled 6.9 billion miles (11.3 billion kilometers) since its launch. The Voyager 2 spacecraft is departing the solar system at a speed of 35,000 miles per hour (15.9 kilometers per second). JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology, manages the Voyager Interstellar Mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, DC. - end -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: Behind American Computers - Addendum 3 From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 13:38:19 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 23:11:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Behind American Computers - Addendum 3 > From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> > Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 20:23:18 -0400 > Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 21:40:56 -0400 > Subject: Re: Behind American Computers - Addendum 3 > In an article entitled ""Microelectronics", published in "Scientific > American", September 1977 Volume 23, Number 3, pp. 63-9, he wrote: > "The integrated circuit, as we conceived and developed it at Fairchild > Semiconductor in 1959, accomplishes the separation and interconnection > of transistors and other circuit elements electrically rather than > physically. The separation is accomplished by introducing pn diodes, > or rectifiers, which allow current to flow in only one direction. The > technique was patented by Kurt Lehovec at the Sprague Electric > Company". > In 1968 Noyce left Fairchild Semiconductor to set up the Intel > Corporation. > >The counterclaim was that the silicon arsenic combination originated > >from a meteorite. > The history of the patents had nothing to do with weapons testing, or > controversies over meteorites! > It's all a perfectly straightforward story and there was never any > sudden "leap in technology". > That's the real world, easily verified from the historical record. When you say the patent had nothing to do with weapons testing, which patent are you referring to? Is that the Sprague Electric Company's patent? There was more than one related to the transistor in fact I'm given to understand that there were many. ACC informed me that the actual wording was "an object that fell from the sky" and subsequently interpreted this to mean a meteorite. No idea which patent this was either. I ceratinly don't mean to make any personal endorsements of ACC's information. I'm simply reporting ACC's assertions as they are related to me. I also don't know very much about patent history henceforth I decided to ask someone who does. I sent a letter to Rob Swiatek to ask him his opinion on the whole patent business as it's relates to the investigation of Corso's claims and ACC's information. I think Bob Wolf is working on a response to your post here. He knows the folks at ACC pretty well and I was told by the VP that Bob plans to post a record of what he's determined about this along with a verbatim discussion he had with the "mystery employee". If he has not already done so. I think in general you have an excellant point James. It certainly seems like an exercise in futility to attempt to prove any relationship between backengineering of foreign components and patents of transistors or integrated circuits that are a matter of historical record. It seems to me that if any connection is to be made it would probably not be reflected in the patents..............but hey, that's just my opinion. Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 2 Alfred's Odd Ode #177 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 16:39:53 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 23:14:46 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #177 Apology to MW #177 (For September 2, 1997) I'm pumping out a signal that I need to make sure's said. I'd like to think you might have even listened. And I know it's going to come out in some form 'til I'm dead It's not the singer of the song, it's the song itself that's bitchin'. I need a line in payment -- it's what I give to you. I need the notice from a person to continue. Without your recognition I don=92t feel like you're true, And just writing for myself are flasks in empty oceans, blue. You wouldn't do it either if a single hapless mote -- If a single person living on this planet. Floating mid Pacific on your single lonely boat, Tossing bottles full of letters unreceived , you understand it. Pathetic bleating messages that express a groundless fear Of the World turned against us by religion? It has kept the tack hard starboard in its fundamental steer, And we're poorer for it, sure, and without question. Your appearance is unlovely -- you don't like the way you look? It's the inner beauty I consider captured. Alexander Pope -- deformed, a twitchy manic dwarf, But a beauty past the bounds of honest rapture. I'm on the level not the make, so take a chance, and give a break To all the beauty you forsake in selfish dealing. You are the center of it all, and you know just what=92s at stake They tell you give it up to God, but from your pockets they've been stealing. Spread around raw misery, and watch the quantity diminish. Do the same with joy and it increases. Hoard the joy and find the misery an exponential finish As the masses are infected with malaise, and strange diseases. We are our brother's steward, and the truth is plain to see That the liberal Alien View is not conjecture. Common people are the grease, and as such are so unfree. They are useful minute tools for our grand one's *nice* prefecture. But there you were afloat alone, a single mote, a single planet. Why take the chance, then, so alone in your detachment? Why throw the flask, write the message, think at all you could chance=85 There was hope that a reader'd catch fire with attachment. That's what it's about, an attachment with you -- That I reach without fingers destruction, Upon the respect I must feel, for true, For a reader that gets my construction. A moment in passing that warms -- it's so cool. A moment's agreement that we'd make it last. A moment's refreshment that we weren't the fools And were players advancing on a stage where we're cast. And we could have it work and make a difference. . . .Rake the ashes for the feathers, so we'd fly! We could stand together as we rearranged our diffidence, We'd live long, and prosper <g>, and may never have to die! Lehmberg@snowhill.com -- Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for throwing bottled messages into populated seas. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" Personal HARASSMENT; however, the harassment index is infinite for each of us. Consider the world when you can't read.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: HONEYBE100@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 18:08:17 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 23:16:33 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >Date: Tue. 2 Sep 1997 02:23:55 GMT >Subject: Re: UFO UpDates: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity >From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net Hi everyone! Roger wrote: >I agree 100%. I've been meaning to chime in on Rebecca's >accidental naming Linda's last name here. I think Linda is >trying to have her cake and eat it too. If she wants to hide >behind Cortile, she should stay out of the public (such as >this list). I also agree with Glenn Campbell's rationale of listing Linda's real last name. We can't be pitying people >who are selling their UFO stories, especially when they >themselves don't stay private. Roger: So, what are you saying? Are you saying in not so many words, that any person who wishes to remain anonymous within the UFO community, shouldn't, if their case was brought public? Are you saying that those of us and our families shouldn't only suffer the indignities of ridicule, but we should also stand in the background (as I have for 8 years) and watch everyone else, but us, (debunkers, researchers, skeptics, believers and journalists) make money on the misery of my family and I? Are you dealing with a full deck, Roger? Trying to have my cake and eat it too? I wouldn't be so angry if there were some cake left to eat!! The sharks got it all during the feeding frenzy. If I want to hide behind the Cortile name, I should stay out of the public (such as this list)? If I had your values, I would not have come forward, as it was my public duty to do so. Then I suppose, I wouldn't have had to hide behind the Cortile name. But then again, think of all those people who would not have made money regarding my case. Perhaps they would've bilked someone else's experience. If I should ever write a book of my own and I don't think I will, I WILL have my cake and I'll eat it too. There's a lot of raw and personal material (evidence) regarding my case. But I have kept it to my family and to myself after experiencing the deranged enthusiasm of those who have used what has already been made public. If I knew, what I know now, I'm not so sure I would've let Budd Hopkins bring my case to the people, as a whole. There's one thing I am sure of, and that is, "I would never recommend another person to go public with their case." Roger, aren't you tired of swimming around in these waters? There's nothing left to eat. Perhaps, YOU should stay private for a while. Linda Cortile
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: American Computer Company corroborates Corso's From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 00:32:49 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 23:18:20 -0400 Subject: Re: American Computer Company corroborates Corso's >Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 02:32:48 -0800 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: American Computer Company corroborates Col. Corso's! >Has anyone looked up the size of American Computer Company? I was not >acquainted with them until they showed up on UFO Updates. Please save >me the research if you know if they are a major player or a two person >shop. I'm wondering what kind of credibility they have. >Josh Goldstein I have been wondering about this too. I know a lot of American IT companies, but not this one. AC is certainly not a major player. Information about revenues, earnings, employees, products, etc. can easily be acquired through contacting their pr department. They should have an annual earnings report there. Furthermore, this report must contain a section with general information about AC. ____________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm e-mail: hvdp@worldonline.nl web: http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp Leiden, The Netherlands \__________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 2 Research.... From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 04:43:19 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 23:27:11 -0400 Subject: Research.... Hi all, this is a forwarded message: From: ppd@spiritone.com Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 18:55:30 -0700 (PDT) To: ppd@spiritone.com Subject: Research.... I am doing research for a new book and am looking for people with any unusual experiences having to do with UFOs, alien abductions, missing time, implants...etc. Please e-mail any experiences you have had in this area by using your reply button. Thank you for your time. Dan Sherman, Author "ABOVE BLACK - Insider Account of Alien Contact and Government Cover-up" http://www.spiritone.com/~ppd ____________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm e-mail: hvdp@worldonline.nl web: http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp Leiden, The Netherlands \__________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 3 March 1988, Phobos 2 From: "WHITE" <mjawhite@digitaldune.net> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 20:10:31 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 00:18:13 -0400 Subject: March 1988, Phobos 2 Hello group: A question--Does anyone have information on the disappearance of the Phobos 2 probe that is not contained on the web? Specifically: the last image photographed before the probe went silent? Sometime on March 28? 1988, the Soviet probe Phobos 2 was approaching Phobos and took some interesting photos before it quit sending. There were some news items about it, and then nothing. I am looking for a good source of info. Thanking any of you in advance who may be able to help John White mjawhite@digitaldune.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 3 Re: American Computer Company corroborates Corso's From: Jim Griebel <71541.2124@CompuServe.COM> Date: 02 Sep 97 22:57:28 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 00:29:13 -0400 Subject: Re: American Computer Company corroborates Corso's >Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 02:32:48 -0800 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: American Computer Company corroborates Col. Corso's! >Has anyone looked up the size of American Computer Company? I was not >acquainted with them until they showed up on UFO Updates. Please save >me the research if you know if they are a major player or a two person >shop. I'm wondering what kind of credibility they have. I never heard of them before this, and the "Roswell" message on the site features an "opinion poll" on Roswell that will also, incidentally, just by the way, adds you to their mailing list so that they can send you product updates. This looks like an advertising ploy to me. Maybe it would look less like one if there wasn't a banner at the bottom of the page saying that they're a member of the "Internet Link Exchange" with the added squib "Targeted Advertising!"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 3 Just For Grins..... From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 01:20:17 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 12:17:32 -0400 Subject: Just For Grins..... Greetings List, EBK, and Alien Abductors... For those who need a short, non-serious aside in their UFOlogical meanderings, we humbly submit: http://web2.airmail.net/infohead/10abduct.html With apologies to those who can't smile. ;^> Glenn, Dallas ******************************************** ** Visit : http://ufo-world.simplenet.com ** ** It's a SERIOUS look at UFO phenomena ** ********************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 3 Re: The Day After Roswell expose -- review From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 97 23:47:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 01:17:40 -0400 Subject: Re: The Day After Roswell expose -- review Subject: The Day After Roswell expose -- review Sent: 9/2/97 11:31 PM Received: 9/2/97 11:46 PM From: Jon Roland, jon.roland@the-spa.com To: misc-activism-militia@uunet.uu.net The Day After Roswell by Col. Philip Corso (ret.), with William J. Birnes Forward by Sen. Strom Thurmond 1997 New York: Simon & Schuster Review by Jon Roland One of the most remarkable things about this book is that it has not received more attention. It is being read by anti-establishment political activists, conspiracy and UFO buffs, and, of course, by people who work for the federal government, perhaps wondering what happens to the author. It is possible that many people who see the cover think it is just another book by just another UFO investigator. But the author of this one was chief of the U.S. Army's Foreign Technology Division, whose main job was to reverse-engineer alien artifacts recovered from the crash near Roswell, NM, in July, 1947. Short of having the President coming on national television to admit everything people suspect about a government cover-up of UFOs and aliens, this is about as close to that as we are likely to get anytime soon. Part of the problem is that most of what Corso has to say only confirms what has already been leaked out. He even describes, in some detail, the program of controlled release of information and the manipulation of the entertainment media to condition the people to prepare them for full disclosure. That program seems to have worked better than hoped, because it seems that now, if full disclosure occurs, most people won't pay attention, and the rest will only have confirmed what they already think. There is little revealed in this book that hasn't come out before as leaks or rumors. The main thing about it is who it was written by, and the implicit endorsement of the U.S. Congress in the form of an introduction by Sen. Strom Thurmond, for whom Corso went to work after retiring from the Army in 1963. However, what it reveals about the mindsets of the people trying to deal with the "alien problem" is perhaps more alarming than the existence and visitation of the aliens themselves. One of Corso's tasks in dealing with the alien artifacts was to draw up a "List of Omissions" -- the things one might expect to find on the craft or in the bodies of the aliens ("EBEs", or "extraterrestrial biological entities", to use the official term) which were not found. Much has already been written about Corso's book, so I will focus for much of this review on a list of omissions in this book. First, Corso darkly hints of knowledge of the hostile intent of the aliens, beyond their somewhat callous treatment of abductees and mutilations of cattle and other livestock. But he never reveals what is his evidence for concluding that. Granted, some of the alien's behavior could be considered somewhat hostile from a military viewpoint (such as violating our airspace). He intimates that they are engaged in a program of colonization, perhaps through infiltration. Second, Corso reports on a great deal of information that he did not get first-hand, without indicating how he learned it. He was only on the project for two years, from 1961 through 1963, but much of what he is reporting occurred after his retirement, when he would no longer have a "need to know". Does he really know from reliable sources, or is he merely passing on what is the latest phase in the "controlled release" program? Third, how was Corso allowed to publish a book like this? He is obviously a team player, although he admits to violating the Internal Security Act by leaking information to reporters about Soviet missiles being deployed in Cuba. Would he now be disclosing this information without the knowledge and consent of the "working group"? It seems unlikely, which raises questions about whether what he reveals is really on his own initiative or just what the people authorizing it want the people to have at this phase in the controlled release program, some of which may not be true. This is not to say that this book does not have the ring of truth. It is far better done than much of what comes out of the government. It also resembles the kind of thing the reviewer has gotten from his own sources in the government over the last three decades. One of the things that rings true is the extent and intensity of rivalry between agencies. Corso depicts the CIA as a more serious threat than the Soviets ever were, and reports how he devoted more effort to avoiding being spied on by our own intelligence services than by the Russians. He also makes it clear that, while there was real rivalry between the West and the Soviet Union, the Cold War was mainly a cover for preparing to deal with the perceived threat from the aliens, and for getting and keeping allied nations and the people on board to support a military buildup that has always primarily been directed toward defense against alien incursion. Corso describes many of the technologies and products that he says are the direct result of reverse-engineering alien artifacts: integrated circuits, lasers, optical fibers, superstrong fabrics like Kevlar, stealth technology, EMP devices to disable electronics, and directed energy weapons. He intimates that much of the work done on mind control technologies was inspired by apparent alien use of such technologies to control their craft and abducted humans, and is largely intended to develop countermeasures and to control our own hardware. Much of the book is devoted to describing the Strategic Defense Initiative and how it is designed to defend against the aliens, more than against missiles from other human nations. He expresses complete confidence that it is an effective defense against them, which is what I find disturbing about the military mindset it reveals. Considering that the aliens continue to fly through our airspace undeterred, abducting humans and mutilating cattle at what seems an increasing pace, the question arises as to whether he and the rest of the people in government are not deluding themselves about the effectiveness of the defense systems they have erected. One has to suspect that if it came to that, the aliens could turn those defense systems off like a light bulb, as they are reported to have turned other defense installations on and off at will, at one point taking a U.S. and Soviet missile launch systems, one on each side, right up to the point of launch while crewpersons frantically tried unsuccessfully to regain control and prevent a launch. One has to suspect that the release of this information is intended to win support for the SDI program, which is threatened by budget cutbacks. Corso makes one technical error that indicates his weakness in dealing with this situation. He attributes the temporary turning off of electrical equipment by aliens to an ordinary EMP effect, where EMP stands for "electromagentic pulse". He claims we have effectively hardened our critical military equipment against that. The problem is that EMP causes electrical equipment to fail by overloading their circuits and damaging them beyond repair, and that is not the effect that has been reported by witnesses in the proximity to alien craft. What they report is more of a temporary dampening field, which causes no electrical discharges or does any permanent damage. That is more the kind of thing one might expect to be the result of a space-time distortion field, of the kind we expect to be associated with something like an Alcubierre Warp Drive, than a side effect of a Townsend Brown type of anti-gravity drive. If so, the hardening of systems against EMP would have little protective value. It is worthwhile to summarize some of the things he confirms: - The earth is being visited and observed by aliens flying UFOs. - There have been multiple crashes of UFOs, recoveries of them, and recoveries of their alien crewmembers, including the crash near Roswell in 1947. - A new revelation is that one of the Roswell aliens was shot and killed by a soldier, who thought it was trying to flee. - The original crash near Roswell was apparently the result of damage to the craft by lightning, which disrupted the anti-gravity effect it used. - The alien craft recovered near Roswell had no facilities for rest, feeding, or waste disposal, and no obvious power or propulsion system. - The aliens were remarkably similar to human beings in their anatomy, but lacked digestive or excretory organs. Corso is of the opinion that the "greys" are synthetic beings, like androids, designed for performing the missions of the UFOs, but lacking true independence of will or purpose. - The U.S. government has been in contact with the aliens, and has negotiated an agreement with them which he describes as a kind of temporary surrender. - Alien artifacts have been reverse-engineered to some degree, and some of the results fed to companies which have developed products based on it. - The original ARPANET, which evolved into the Internet, was largely driven by the need to coordinate a response to the "alien problem", and to develop a communications system that would be difficult for the aliens to interdict. - The original "working group" was composed of the same persons listed in the "Majestic 12" documentation, although Corso did not confirm that "Majestic 12" was the name of the group, or what the present name might be. He simply refers to it as the "working group", and apparently everyone knows what that is, if not who composes it. - The "working group" put in charge of dealing with the "alien problem" continues, and functions as a kind of secret government, perhaps more powerful than the President. Corso intimates that not all Presidents have been told about the aliens. - The nations of the Earth are cooperating with the U.S. in dealing with the "alien problem", and this cooperation dominates international relations on several levels. - The "Cold War" was ended by Reagan and Gorbachev in response to what was perceived as an alien threat. The "New World Order" should be taken as this new system of cooperation, from the viewpoint of the people working on the "alien problem", although Corso does not use that term, and seems opposed to the unconstitutional form it is taking. - The real Cold War, against the aliens, continues, with the Space Defense Initiative being one of its principle activities. This is the main reason for continued high defense expenditures, the excuse for defense against "terrorism", and other programs of increased militarization of society. - Elements within and without the official governments of the Earth have an agenda to establish a de facto world government, mainly to defend against the aliens, but one which would establish an oligarchy centered on those charged with the defense. The CIA seems to be one of the main concentrations for the implementation of this agenda. - The propulsion, power source, and control systems of the alien craft have not yet been successfully reverse-engineered. (But this may be disinformation.) - The aliens are responsible for most of the animal mutilations. - The aliens are abducting people and conducting experiments on them, with the apparent purpose of developing a new, hybrid species. - Many people in government and the private sector are aware of all these things, but are afraid to discuss them openly, something with which Corso seems to partially disagree with. - Officials have threatened people to get them to keep silent, and may have killed people to do that. - People in government seem inordinately afraid of public reaction to disclosure, to the extent that it is impairing their ability to conduct an effective defense. Secrecy has made it difficult for the "working group" to effectively coordinate a program of response among rival government agencies and national governments, resulting in many of them taking their own initiatives and going off in divergent and conflicting directions. - Much if not most of the information about aliens and UFOs that has come out, including perhaps much of the coverage by the entertainment media, is part of a more or less centrally orchestrated program of controlled conditioning of the population in preparation of eventual disclosure, but there is internal controversy about how much and how fast to proceed in this program, and when to complete the disclosure. - Following WWII, the military continued to monitor all electronic communications of the population, contrary to law. He says the monitoring by the military ended during the Ford Administration, but not that some other agency did not take it over. There is other evidence, not mentioned by Corso, that the NSA took over that operation and that it continues to this day. - The Kennedy Administration, led by the CIA, was prepared to allow the Soviets to deploy nuclear missiles in Cuba, until Corso took the initiative to leak the information to a few trusted journalists, forcing Kennedy to confront the situation in the Cuban Missile Crisis. - Corso seems to think that Kennedy was assassinated by a conspiracy of elements within the U.S. government, but he does not offer any evidence to confirm this. He worked on the staff of the Warren Commission, under Sen. Richard Russell, so he seems to have some basis for thinking that. Apparently the operations of the Army Foreign Technology Division was a comparatively minor effort, although one which has had perhaps the greatest benefit to the public in the form of commercial products. One has to wonder if this is the first of several such revelatory books by key figures in other government agencies. A lot of people are waiting. =================================================================== Constitution Society, 1731 Howe Av #370, Sacramento, CA 95825 916/568-1022, 916/450-7941VM Date: 09/02/97 Time: 21:31:50 http://www.constitution.org/ mailto:jon.roland@the-spa.com =================================================================== Search for other documents from or mentioning: pparri | jon.roland |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 3 Re: American Computer Company corroborates Corso's From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 08:06:48 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 12:34:13 -0400 Subject: Re: American Computer Company corroborates Corso's >Date: 02 Sep 97 22:57:28 EDT >From: Jim Griebel <71541.2124@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: American Computer Company corroborates Corso's Info >>Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 02:32:48 -0800 >>From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: American Computer Company > corroborates Col. Corso's! >>Has anyone looked up the size of American Computer Company? I was not >>acquainted with them until they showed up on UFO Updates. Please save >>me the research if you know if they are a major player or a two person >>shop. I'm wondering what kind of credibility they have. >I never heard of them before this, and the "Roswell" message on the site >features an "opinion poll" on Roswell that will also, incidentally, just by >the way, adds you to their mailing list so that they can send you product >updates. This looks like an advertising ploy to me. Maybe it would look >less like one if there wasn't a banner at the bottom of the page saying >that they're a member of the "Internet Link Exchange" with the added >squib "Targeted Advertising!" There we go again. If it isn't character assassination it's company assassination. I was probably one the first to fill out their opinion poll after Stig posted the story here and I haven't received one bit of advertising mail from them to this date. The Internet Link Exchange is a vague system that by now ten thousands of sites have signed up to without any monetary results. In 999 out of 1000 times it doesn't pay the web site owner one cent and in most cases serves only to give the visitor the impression that the group that owns the site belongs to some bigger group. The first time I will receive targeted advertising from American Computer, I will post it here. Until then I hope the investigation effort does not suffer from premature conclusions based on false assumptions. ____________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm e-mail: hvdp@worldonline.nl web: http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp Leiden, The Netherlands \__________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 3 Re: March 1988, Phobos 2 From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 08:51:01 +0300 Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 12:37:32 -0400 Subject: Re: March 1988, Phobos 2 >From: "WHITE" <mjawhite@digitaldune.net> >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: March 1988, Phobos 2 >Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 20:10:31 -0700 >Hello group: >A question--Does anyone have information on the disappearance >of the Phobos 2 probe that is not contained on the web? >Specifically: the last image photographed before the probe >went silent? Sometime on March 28? 1988, the Soviet probe >Phobos 2 was approaching Phobos and took some interesting >photos before it quit sending. There were some news items >about it, and then nothing. I am looking for a good source of >info. Thanking any of you in advance who may be able to help >John White mjawhite@digitaldune.net Hi John. I think I have a good source for that info - the man who was responsable at the Russian Space Agency, as I interviewed him on the subject some time ago. You can read the whole interview and see the pictures at my free UFO-magazine site: http://www.wufoc.com/issue_4/kuz_uk.html Enjoy! Jorgen Westman / WUFOC.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 3 Re: March 1988, Phobos 2 From: "John Gilbert" <john@greendome.force9.net> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 09:13:44 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 12:50:46 -0400 Subject: Re: March 1988, Phobos 2 >From: "WHITE" <mjawhite@digitaldune.net> >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: March 1988, Phobos 2 >Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 20:10:31 -0700 >A question--Does anyone have information on the disappearance >of the Phobos 2 probe that is not contained on the web? >Specifically: the last image photographed before the probe >went silent? Well I think what you're looking for is on the web, have a look at:- http://www.skiesare.demon.co.uk The last photo "officially" sent back is there as show13.gif, the one you're probably thinking of is also there. You should also talk to Alexis Kuzmin of the IKI, his page link in also in the phobos2 section on this page. I hope this helps. Be Seeing You Skies http://www.skiesare.demon.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 3 Public Disclosure of New Laser Weapon From: Mike Smith <mickey@anix340.dev.anix.co.uk> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 09:40:13 +0100 (BST) Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 12:52:03 -0400 Subject: Public Disclosure of New Laser Weapon Hi All, It's just been on the news here, in between the Diana coverage, that the American Airforce are asking permission to test fire their new toy. They apparently wish to target a redundant airforce satellite and shoot it out of the sky. Three thoughts arise from this, well four actually: 1. When did they ever ask for permission to do anything like this before. 2. Normally by the time a weapon goes public it's been operational for some time. 3. Corso's book talks about such directed energy weapons being used against ET's. Does this lend any credence to the rest of the book. 4. Could this device be used to target spacecraft and if so what kind of damage/disruption would it cause. Starwars has most definitely arrived. You can now imagine our rednecked little planet strolling up to various ET spacecraft and uttering those immortal words. "You ain't from around here, are you boy" Regards to list, Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Smith Anix Computers Ltd "Death isn't the Handicap it used to be" Third Technician, Dave Lister Jupiter Mining Corporation -------------------------------------------------------------------------- mickey@anix.co.uk --------------------------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 3 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: HONEYBE100@aol.com [Linda Cortile] Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 05:53:32 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 12:55:44 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >Date: Tue. 2 Sept 1997 14:28:11 CST >From: Vince Johnson at TENSOR HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity Hi everyone! Vince wrote: >What Scott says about invasion of privacy to anonymous witnesses > is true. >But when people claim to have observed startling, even historic >anomalous events and expect others to believe them without >question, shouldn't these eyewitnesses have enough courage of >their convictions to allow the use of their real names? Isn't any- >thing less than hearsay? >Isn't the challenge of correcting our old mistaken perceptions of >reality important enough to suffer the temporary aggravations and >annoyances of being "outted"? >This is my problem with the entire Linda/Dan/Richard/Perez de >cuellar scenario. If the events of the Linda case are true, I >would think the nuisances of the ske;tics and debunkers would >be trivial compared to the historical importance of revealing the >truth - on the record and naming names. >That all of the palyers (other than Linda who still resents being named publicly) in this scenario have refused to go public in- >dicates either that these putltive players grossly underestimate >the importance of the events they claim to have witnessed, or >that they're insufferably wimpish - or else it's all just a hoax. >Is there any difference between the primary players avoiding >publicity in this case and someone who witnesses a murder but >won't report it to the police because they "don't want to get >involved?" Vince: You must understand that I'm a wife and mother first. Every- thing else in my life is last. My first responsibility is not to the UFO communtiy. It's to my family. There is no way that I would compromise the safety and well being of my family, or anyone else for that matter, for the benefit of UFO research. I believe that I have done my part by allowing Hopkins to bring my case public, along with myself. As far as the other witnesses are concerned, there are 22 of them (on different levels). Only three of them have not come forward to speak with Budd and I can understand why. If I held a position that any one of those three held, I wouldn't have come forward either. We had hoped that they would've discussed the event with Hopkins in the future as Richard and Dan said they would. However, they must have found out how disfunctional some of those within the UFO community are, and it drove them away. They must have seen what I was put through, as a good example of what might have happened to them had they come forward. I don't know. I can't speak for them. To you, if you can't have your own way, then witnesses who do not come forward publicly or release their real names, are either under- estimating the importance of the events they claim to have witnessed, or that they're insufferably wimpish - or else it's just a hoax. Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. But I don't. In fact, I'm glad that the three most important witnesses did not come forward. If they had, the quality of my family's life and mine would've been unbearable. The third man denied ever being involved with my case, as was expected. He told us that he would deny it if his name ever became public, etc. Well, his name did become public. No Vince, the aggravations and annoyances haven't been temporary. From what I hear and experienced, it'll probably go on for most of our lives. But to tell you the truth, my family and I feel better about it, after all these years. We don't particularly care about what others think. Take my word for it, if you please. The quality of UFO research by some, is good. As far as I'm concerned, if it weren't for the handful of those researchers (maybe 4 or 5), UFO research wouldn't exist. So, when you tell someone like me or other witnesses to give up their anonymity, safety and well being for the UFO community, expect one of two things or both, to happen: 1. They'll think you're Seinfeld, or 2. They'll look at you as though you have three heads. Linda Cortile
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 3 Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media From: rprokic@ibm.net [Roger Prokic] Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 06:04 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 12:56:45 -0400 Subject: Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media >Date: 02 Sep 97 08:52:49 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media >I propose founding a new organization called CSIPOOP, Committee for >Scientifically Investigating People Obviously Obsessed with Power, and >make them our first case study! Good idea, Bob. Now do we have any volunteers to lead this new group? <g> Roger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 3 16th Leeds [UK] International UFO Conference From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 08:48:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 12:59:08 -0400 Subject: 16th Leeds [UK] International UFO Conference Dear Colleagues, The 16th Leeds International UFO Conference takes place on the weekend of 19-21 September 1997, at the Conference Auditorium, University of Leeds, Northern England. Our list of speakers, who will lecture on a broad range of UFO and related topics include: Dr. Brian O'Leary (USA), ex-NASA and exponent on 'free energy' Dr. Richard Sauder (USA), author of 'Underground Bases & Tunnels' Michael Hesemann (Germany), co-author of 'Beyond Roswell' Carlos Diaz (Mexico), famed 'contactee' Barry Chamish (Israel), journalist & UFO researcher Russel Callaghan (UK), film & photo analyst Tony Dodd (UK), UFO researcher & former police officer Graham W. Birdsall (UK), editor of UFO Magazine Proceedings being Friday evening at 6.30pm (doors open 5.30pm) with the showing of classic UFO footage taken down the years (ends at 10.00pm). Admission: =A35.00 Saturday & Sunday proceedings begin at 11.00am each day (doors open 9.30am) and end at 7.30pm. Admission each day: Adults =A310.00 Concessions =A37.50 * Attend both Saturday & Sunday: =A315.00 All 3 days =3D =A320.00 (Concessions include under-16s, students, senior citizens & unwaged) Four fully illustrated lectures are scheduled for both Saturday & Sunday: Saturday - Tony Dodd (11.00am); Barry Chamish (1.30pm); Russel Callaghan (3.15pm); Michael Hesemann (4.30pm) Sunday - Dr. Richard Sauder (11.00am); Brian O'Leary (1.30pm); Graham W. Birdsall (3.15pm); Carlos Diaz (5.00pm). Refreshment intervals are scheduled between each lecture and a wide variety of displays and merchandise will be on-site throughout. Tickets are now available and credit card bookings can be made through either our WWW site >ufomag.co.uk< or by telephoning our offices direct on 01943 850637 (Fax 01943 850637). Office hours are 9.00am - 6.00pm Mon-Fri. All major credit cards accepted. Alternatively, postal applications (cheque/PO) should be made payable to: "Quest Publications International Ltd" Send to: Quest Publications International Ltd Wharfebank House Ilkley Road Otley LS21 3JP Yorkshire England * Tickets are accompanied by detailed timetable, biographies, route map (free on-site car parking) and wide choice of hotel accommodation For further information, please telephone our office direct on 01943-850860 Best regards, Graham W. Birdsall (Editor) UFO Magazine [UK]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 3 Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 10:31:10 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 13:08:14 -0400 Subject: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity >From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >Date: Tue, 02 Sep 97 14:28:11 cst >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity >What Scott says about invasion of privacy to 'anonymous witnesses' is >true. >But when people claim to have observed startling, even historic >anomalous events and expect others to believe them without question, >shouldn't these 'eyewitnesses' have enough courage of their >convictions to allow the use of their real names? Isn't anything less >just hearsay? >Isn't the challenge of correcting our old mistaken perceptions of >'reality' important enough to suffer the temporary aggravations and >annoyances of being "outted?" However, this is not the case for an "abductee" seeking psychological help through therapy (whatever the form). From my limited exposure to "experiencers", I have found that they generally are not seeking publicity, and really don't care if anyone believes their story. They know what happened to them, and that isn't an issue. Some, such as Linda, have had their story told by someone else in various forums and later become recognized "personalities" within the genre. But that is usually an unwanted side effect, rather than a goal that was pursued. I would note that the story being told (in her case) was written by Budd Hopkins, and it is his interpretations that are at issue here, and not statements or beliefs of the research subject (Linda). It is not unreasonable for a reseach subject to have their privacy maintained by the use of a pseudonym, with the author (of the conclusions) being the natural focus of those who might disagree. It is unfortunate that Linda apparently became caught up in the undisciplined world of UFO/Abudction research, which resulted in her name allegedly being released during some bureacratic infighting. Now that her real name has been published on the "net", it is impossible to remove it from cyberspace, so the damage appears to be done. Unfortunately, debates such as this merely draw attention to it and have the effect of making more people aware of the fact that a pseudonym was in use and her "real" name could be found. >This is my problem with the entire Linda/Dan/Richard/Perez de Cuellar >scenario. If the events of the Linda case are true, I would think the >nuisances of the skeptics and debunkers would be trivial compared to >the historical importance of revealing the truth -- on the record and >naming names. >That _all_ of the players (other than Linda who still resents being >named publicly) in this scenario have refused to go public indicates >either that these putative players grossly underestimate the >importance of the events they claim to have witnessed, or that they're >insufferably wimpish -- or else it's all just a hoax. >Is there any difference between the primary players avoiding publicity >in this case and someone who witnesses a murder but won't report it to >the police because they "don't want to get involved?" Of course, this would allow public pressure to have a role in the debate, which isn't necessarily a positive step. Some of the others may have also seen how Linda was treated and decided it just wasn't worth the effort. Another researcher whose address and phone number got out to the "net" averages two to three unannounced knocks on his door each week, from people who "just happen to be driving through town" and decided to stop by. They come from all over the country, and he said that it becomes difficult to entertain everyone who comes into town. This doesn't take into account the phone calls and letters he receives. "Experiencers" already have (by definition) lost control over their own selves, and your arguement seems to be that the only way they can seek help is to agree to the loss of their personal privacy as well. Just a few thoughts from the peanut gallery. Steve Search for other documents from or mentioning: steve |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 3 Re: Arizona UFO Analysis From: William.Hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com Date: Wednesday, 3 September 1997 8:16am MT Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 13:12:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Arizona UFO Analysis >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> >Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Arizona UFO Analysis - Questions >Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 11:28:17 -0700 >> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 00:45:07 -0700 >> From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) >> To: Updates@globalserve.net >> Subject: Arizona UFO Analysis >> Dan Geib posted this over at UFC. >> By Andrew Brockinton and Terry Rodemerk MUFON Baywatch Newsletter .... >> In our analysis, we utilized the video by Mike Krzyston taken from >> the >> top of Mt. Ridge and scanned in several still photographs using an >> Amiga 1200 AGA computer with DCTV video frame grabber and ImageFX >> software for photo analysis. Our analysis leads us to theorize that >> the MUFON article stating that they are flares is erroneous. From >> enlargements of the single lights, they do not appear to be flares. >> To verify this, we have a photo taken over Houston, Texas at night >> of a flare in the sky, and the two pictures do not look anything alike. >> In addition, from our analysis the lights in the Phoenix films >> appear to be maneuvering jets along the same lines as the nozzle >> jets of the liquid fuel rockets on the NASA's shuttles. Whether >> these are liquid fuel jets like the shuttle, ion propulsion or >> plasma propulsion, we cannot determine that at this time. Yet, >> looking at the pictures that show this, tends to lead us to believe >> they are a form of ion plasma, they trail off much like the >> aurora borealis does. From what little I can determine concerning this analysis, it was not done with professional software or equipment. I am happy to see that someone is making an effort, but I do not think the conclusions can be drawn from the analysis. We know the lights were not flares but it is not easy to prove. They certainly were not the flares dropped by the Maryland ANG on the test range as those were Lu-u2 magnesium flares which burn bright white. The mystery lights were amber. They were seen moving in formation as if flying horizontally at 5,000 feet. This was witnessed by a retired airline pilot and his son, but not videotaped. Frequency analysis (fast fourier transform) using Image Pro software reveals a smooth waveform for the mystery lights. In fact they seem to be frequency and phase coherent. They do not appear to be ionic emissions or so-called manuevering thrusters. Seen through magnification they seem to be spherical light sources. The waveform analysis of flares videotaped on the test range in the south shows them to be ragged, spiked, and incoherent waves as one would expect from a burning source of light. More analysis will be done shortly as new video segments have been acquired. Triangulation of these video shots show the formation of lights to be over or near the Estrella Mountains, and, perhaps, over parts of suburban areas. The test range where flares are dropped is 40-50 miles south of the location of the videotaped lights. Bill Hamilton Phoenix, AZ Search for other documents from or mentioning: william.hamilton |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 3 Corso and 'Alien' Transistors From: mdavis@ccsmtp.glycomed.COM (Davis, Michael) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 97 12:21:35 pst Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 13:14:02 -0400 Subject: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors Greetings, All, I haven't yet read the new Corso book, but as I recall there was talk that he claimed that transistor technology was one of the spin-offs of the Roswell debris. In the 24 July 1997 issue of Nature magazine, pp. 339 is a book review for "Crystal Fire: The Birth of The Information Age" by M. Riordan and L. Hoddeson. The book details the the background, personalities and actions of the transistor's inventors, John Bardeen, William Shockley and Walter Brattain of Bell Telephone Labs. To quote the review: "Mervin Kelly, who became head of the Bell Telephone Laboratories in 1936 and remained its leader for more than 20 years, can clearly be said to be the spiritual father of the transistor. While head of the vacuum tube division of the Western Electric Company, also a subsidiary of AT&T, he noted in the late 20s the remarkable, durable properties of inexpensive copper-oxide rectifiers, commonly used at that time for the conversion of relatively low-frequency alternating current to direct current." (snip) So, transistor concepts were being explored in the 1920s. The review outlines the developments in transistor technology through the war years and continues... "Then, in reexamining a different failed experiment carried out in connection with the study of trapping levels, they made a remarkable discovery." (snip) "The invention of the bipolar point-contact transistor followed. It was demonstrated to management on 23 December 1947." As I mentioned, I have not read Corso's book yet, but five months between the Roswell event and a working transistor model based on advanced alien technology is an awfully short time, coupled with the idea that transistor concepts were being explored twenty years prior to 1947. M. Davis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 3 URGENT - BUFORA Mailing list From: Stephen Gamble <el82@dial.pipex.com> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 18:25:48 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 13:41:24 -0400 Subject: URGENT - BUFORA Mailing list Having sent a reminder to everybody on Monday about the BUFORA Lecture this coming Saturday (6th September), it has now been decided that the Lecture and the preceeding Council meeting will be cancelled. This date now clashes with when much of London will be given over to the funeral of Princess Di. The University of Westminster may be closing the building for the day. As the building lies near the route Princess Di's funeral will take, they are not sure what if any staff would get in to be able to open the building. It was also felt that many people would not wish to be going out enjoying themselves on this particular day.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 3 American Computer - Update From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 18:16:23 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 13:38:23 -0400 Subject: American Computer - Update On September 2 1997 Bob Wolf posted these epoch-making (if true) pieces of information to the Current Encounters mailing list, and today, September 3, Francis Ridge forwarded them to the members of the Project 1947 list including me. Thanks a lot Bob for your unremitting and splendid research. ___________________________________________________________ Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 08:07:44 -0500 From: Francis Ridge <slk@WORLD.EVANSVILLE.NET> To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Updated: My discussions with the 'anonymous source' for the story on ACC's website! Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 21:01:08 -0500 From: Bob Wolf <mailbox@IX.NETCOM.COM> Subject: Updated: My discussions with the 'anonymous source' for the story on ACC's website! To: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM In response to James Easton's anecdotal and investigative efforts to describe the history of Bell Labs and Transistor related projects from the historical texts, posted to "updates", I did some additional research and was put in touch with the "person" who provided American Computer Company with the story found at http://www.american-computer.com (opening banner) and http://www.american-computer.com/roswell.htm (details) Case in point, straight from the source at ACC who researched it ( again, in response to the letter below, I called ACC's head who put me in touch with the guy and holy mackeral!) and lived it! Here it is, World, for everyone to hear, from the horse's mouth (updated today, September 2, 1997 with additional facts), 'His statement' (slightly expurgated - he talks very quickly): "Bell Laboratories published all the historical material James Easton found, AFTER the fact in 1948 and 1949. It's all a smokescreen fabrication designed to hide the real history. Do not expect Bell Labs to sit tight on this, they may even sue me for revealing this: but the fact is, there is NO INFORMATION ABOUT TRANSISTOR RESEARCH actually available nor that is bonafide nor provided by Bell Labs PRIOR TO Sepetember of 1947. It didn't exist, because the materials researched to fabricate the Transistor came from the Roswell, New Mexico crash site of the "extraterrestrial craft" discovered jointly by the Air Force and Army there in mid 1947, accidentally revealed to the public and then retracted, by a public relations spokesperson at that Testing Base. Anything about the 1946/47 or 48 period, or after, at Bell Labs about the Transistor, is pure smoke. Here, here's what really happened. Col. Corso should be proud that he took the stand he did." [Bob's added note: today I learned from the person that there has been a long standing dispute inside of AT&T, Bell Labs, AT&T Labs and now, Lucent, about the representations regarding the Transistor (1948), the IC (1974), the DSP (1967), the Modem (1958), and that all four kinds of device may have been present in the technology transferred to 'the Labs' in 1947. There are notes at the labs about research that was cloaked behind a cover up story called "black hole machine" designs at the Labs from 1947 to 1975 after the untimely death of John "Jack" Morton", the implications of which are that the technology transferred to the labs may even have influenced computer design advances as components were reverse engineered and it was determined how 'alien computing devices' worked. The UNIX operating system, even the Bell Labs forerunners of the PDP-1 (The 1B), the PDP11 and the M-6800 (The 2B), the M-68000 (The 3B), the RISC-SPARC (The 4B) and variations, may all have been caseworks developed from knowledge reverse engineered out of an alien computer so complex that only parts of it are fully understood today, except, according to him, by one living human being (remaining nameless), resulting in our comparatively primitive simulations of the working environments found on the 'alien computing devices'. He equated the alien computational systems as being 'about 24th Century Human' in advanced design - thus far the US Government has only determined that one living person is capable of understanding them, and he's reportedly something of an eccentric and unwilling to work on them. I note that 'the source' defined a 'shuttle bus' of technology interchange that has operated between Bell Labs, IBM Research, Unisys, Digital Equipment, Fairchild, Intel, and others that would, upon isolation of a new concept in the 'alien computing artifacts' result in a pell mell dash to bring to market the new idea from these companies, a 'shuttle bus' that's been in full sway since the early 60's. Back to the 'anonymous source':] "My information come indirectly from people I worked with who were involved in the alleged research in 1947 and after. They were all sworn to secrecy, and one of them, who shall remain nameless, who started to get a bit loose lipped, suddenly was found dead in the 70's." "They indicated that Bell Labs diodes (germanium) were rather primitive current-wave polarity filtering devices in June of 1947, and that in September of 1947 the Department of the Army directed Bell under contract at the time to pursue radar research into objects of extraterrestrial origin, known today as Roswell Extraterrestrial Landers Number 1 and 2 (there were two devices, by the way, REL#1 and REL#2). Bell agreed and took the pieces of material to the Murray Hill facility into a Laboratory. There, under top secret protocol, they took apart a photonic transducer, and an electronic device, leaving other parts of the crafts intact, discovering several microscopic fragments in the dissections that resembled devices that had been theorized by scientists, but which Bell was unable to manufacture as it had no idea how to compose them. Using materials similar in nature to what the spectagraphics department determined was a polysilicon, arsenic and boron material, they were able to first devise an amplifying effect within weeks of the research, and using a variety of methods, they tried to recreate the same materials and apply various electrical currents to them. Please note that the earthshaking nature of the discovery was not missed by Bell Labs execs and attorneys: they reported that their findings by Radar Microscopy of the objects given them by the Department of the Army was inconclusive, to the Army. But, in point of fact, their research into these 'extraterrestrial' objects was FAR FROM INCONCLUSIVE - and, well, basically, the War Department of the Army was Hoodwinked by Bell. Attorneys of the Lab, about seven months later, filed patents in the names of field lab scientists who were sworn to secrecy, in middle 1948, and, amid it all, the Transistor was born and Bell proceeded to play out a long term exercise in secret profiteering that is unparalleled in human history! It plays out like a Star Trek movie." "All subsequent accounts of the invention were stylized publicity accounts designed to create the impression of Bell Labs research superiority. In 1973 or 4, during a strategic investigation into the murder of John Morton, head of these projects at Bell Labs Semiconductors, the Offices of Army and Air Force Strategic Investigations discovered the leak of the materials of extraterrestrial origin by Bell Labs and the false reports filed by Bell in 1947 and 1948. A long term investigation of Bell Labs improper handling of Strategic Military Materials was begun, under the codename Project Starpoint. Statutes of limitations and denials by Bell Labs officials prevented prosecution, and with breakup of the Bell System already underway, it became impossible for the Army and Air Force to do anything but wince at the whole affair". "Starpoint's intent was to determine the extent of the damage to public affairs in the United States and elsewhere, by Bell Labs and The Bell System's release of materials into the Commercial mainstream, that it obtained from the materials of extraterrestrial origin that belonged to the Department of the Army. For the intervening 25 years, neither the Air Force nor the Army had been aware of exactly what Bell Labs did with the classified materials conveyed to it, except that Bell claimed they had obtained no meaningful results when they tested it. The Army, fearful of the side effects of it being known that the Army couldn't make heads or tails of the 'extraterrestrial craft', decided to bury the whole event. Some have suggested that Bell Labs was 'in cahoots' with some at the Army or Air Force, but that remains unproven, except as set forward, below." "Even so, RCA Semiconductors, back during the first AntiTrust suit against the Bell System, filed a challenge of the patents filed in the names of Shockley, Bardeen, et al., by Bell Labs attorneys and referred to the nature of the materials conveyed to Bell by the Army that RCA presented substantial evidence was the source of the Transistor, that it in fact was a 'weapon' - without fully identifying its extraterrestrial origins. RCA had a considerable reason for wanting to challenge Bell, as RCA had been the epitome of Vacuum Tube and Picture Tube technology and had independantly obtained information about how to manufacture the alien derived 'Bell Transistor' - not wanting to be left out of the economic gain of this leap forward into solid state electronics. The challenge they filed was disputed by Bell attorneys, claiming they had obtained the material from common academic sources who had investigated a meteorite and that during tests, the materials had demonstrated unique electrical charactersitics which suggested they would be suitable for theoretical research proposals that had suggested this 'all along' in decades earlier. This is the closest anyone, until Col. Corso and the OSI, got to proving the unthinkable thing Bell Labs had done. I know, as I was someone who two of the principal officials 'in the know' took the time to relate the information to as part of our mutual efforts to gird AT&T for the impending break up of the Bell System in the 70's. This is not to say that the historians are wrong - they are just reporting the information as Bell Labs wants or wanted them to. They are just gullible." "In fact, the Bell System enlisted local military influences and those in Norad, to provide it additional defenses in the Murray Hill area, because in fact Bell Labs believed that some of the pieces it had received were Homing Beacons in nature, operating at extreme mm wavelengths and extremely high power, and are still reportedly operating to this date, despite being cased in thick concrete and lead containers beneath Bell Labs Lyncroft/Holmdel, NJ facility. Bell hired crucial military and commercial players in the vacinity of the project involving the craft, and paid them to organize businesses such as American Research and Development, and others, in essence buying them off. But some of them, despite having been paid off, broke the silence over the years, leaking information into the public sector for almost 5 decades that a space craft had landed in 1947 at Roswell, almost out of feelings of guilt, I suspect. I, for one, am proud of Col. Corso and his book, it breaks a silence that has been unbearable for one and all close to the Bell Labs coverup since its inception. And, the deaths of one or more which might be linked to the enormous greed surrounding the affair, is in and of itself an even more horrific matter! Bell Labs was far from the only company to receive the 'gifts' - the records of the Labs I worked at contained notations about advanced materials, advanced chemical formulae, even advanced biological notions that the craft may have somehow contained." "It is now no longer felt, by Bell, that the 'extraterrestrial' objects and their origins pose any threat to humanity, as we'd have heard from the Aliens in question long before now, and so the massive defensive preparations have been abandoned. Note, however, that at least one of the craft still exists, is in cold storage, and is fully functional, albeit, not fully understood even to this day. Attempts to fly it have suffered from lack of understanding of its control surfaces and drive." ---- My thanks to American Computer for putting me in touch with this particular guy, who is a consultant residing in the Fort Monmouth, NJ area, today, where he is an expert on National Electronic Space Command matters for the Department of the Air Force at various AFBs. I understand that the Air Force is fully aware of these matters, but disdains to discuss them, itself, except that it has hired him, so it must appreciate his opinions. By the way, it cost $5,000,000+ for Bell to setup the equipment needed to analyze the materials transmitted to it in 1947 by the Army and the Air Force, the source said, just in case anyone is curious. Oh yes, he suggested investigators should go back further than 1948 to the year of the event and find any journals referring to the work. He suggests that the in-house journals at Bell Labs in 1947 aren't very helpful, he read through them himself in 1969 and 1970 during conferences with John Morton, and others at Bell Labs when he worked there. The papers that were published are remarkable in that they appear to describe leaps of success without the usual 10 years of research and scads of interns and industry tests that were typical of Bell Labs research in the era. He wants you to dig deeper - and consult with Colonel Corso, whom he felt may actually HAVE been one of the 'trap door spooks' - the nameless Army and Air Force guys who arranged for the RELs to be transferred to Bell and elsewhere, hidden behind smoke, bubble gum, band aids and a lot of information. Again, so those of you interested should know THEIR POSITION, American Computer Company, itself, told me to say: "American Computer is unable to confirm nor deny or dispute any of the facts presented by the source of the story about the Roswell, NM 'space craft' or Bell Laboratories, and is soliciting the opinion of the public so that any facts in the public sector and the public opinion, will become known." They also said they disagree with the histories cited by James Easton, not that Mr. Easton is incorrect, but that the histories he cites 'appear to gloss over what happened in a stylized story telling fashion that is, at once, entertaining, and which is the way, we believe, Bell Labs would want us all to believe it happened, but which may be very far from the actual truth. We do not dispute that Shockley, Bardeen, Noyce or others received the in personem credit for these patents and were placed by the Bell System into their respective positions, its just that we have found the facts presented us by [the consultant] compelling enough to publish his opinion, and seek the opinion of others, like yours, which we welcome.' 'May something surface from the past to dispell any myths. And, if there is a craft somewhere in hiding, may, in the profound wisdom of our military's leaders in the Defense Department, may they now find themselves strongly enough motivated to reveal it's existence and that of "Skystation", in all of their glory, for the American public and the World Public now have a right to now!'. Quote, unquote! Ho-Boy!! Sky-station! -- Bob Wolf
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 3 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 12:38:46 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 13:42:57 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] >Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 12:25:19 PDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >It should be noted, as I don't think anyone has yet, that there are >plenty of precedents for books (in all sorts of fields) where a principal >(or even THE principal) figure is identified only by a pseudonym to >protect him or her from unwanted attention, harassment, character >assassination, or ridicule. Linda Cortile has had more than her share >of all of the above. I'm amazed that she's been able to keep humor >and perspective through it all. >If a UFO witness requests anonymity, it is our ethical responsibility >to guarantee it and protect it. Period. >Jerry Clark There seems to be a feeling among some that those who make "extraordinary claims" have less of a right to privacy than the rest of us. However, if we were focused on the researcher, rather than the research subject, this wouldn't be a problem. Can you give any examples from other disciplines in which the research subjects have come forward to take part in the actual research and presentation? I can think of numerous examples of anomymity, but can't think of any where the subject became an active part of the ongoing research. All this being said, I don't know how active Linda has been (other than her involvement on this list) and wouldn't want to discourage anyone's search for the truth. As I understand it, the release of her real name was a deliberate act and not an accident. Those responsible should (and perhaps already have) been held accountable. In the end, it all probably comes down to "Trust", which is given all too freely in our haphazard search for answers.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 3 Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 08:19:10 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 13:43:40 -0400 Subject: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity >From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >Date: Tue, 02 Sep 97 14:28:11 cst >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity Vince, Old enough to remember Watergate? Did you know who "Deep Throat" was? Bob Search for other documents from or mentioning: 76750.2717 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 3 Re: Old enough to remember Watergate? From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 17:41:40 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 15:49:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Old enough to remember Watergate? > Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 08:19:10 -0400 > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com > >Date: Tue, 02 Sep 97 14:28:11 cst > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity > Vince, > Old enough to remember Watergate? > Did you know who "Deep Throat" was? > Bob Linda Lovelace? Search for other documents from or mentioning: dledger | 76750.2717 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 3 Re: American Computer - Update From: Yehuda Sharvit <ysvit@netvision.net.il> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 01:12:56 +0300 Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 21:11:54 -0400 Subject: Re: American Computer - Update > From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 18:16:23 +0200 > Subject: American Computer: Sensational Update (If True) > On September 2 1997 Bob Wolf posted these epoch-making (if true) pieces > of information to the Current Encounters mailing list, and today, > September 3, Francis Ridge forwarded them to the members of the Project > 1947 list including me. > Thanks a lot Bob for your unremitting and splendid research. [snip] The 1948 Bell transistors was primitive germanium BiPolar devices, it's ridiculous to claim that they was A copy from advanced alien 24 century technology.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 3 Re: Question for KKK, SCICOP & Promethius Books From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 17:35:43 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 21:15:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for KKK, SCICOP & Promethius Books > Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 08:56:40 +1000 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Question for KKK, SCICOP & Promethius Books > >From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > >Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 12:58:48 -0500 > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Question for KKK, SCICOP & Promethius Books > >> Date: 27 Aug 97 12:44:41 EDT > >> From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > >> To: Errol Bruce-Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> > >> Subject: Question for KKK, SCICOP & Promethius Books > >> Open letter to Kal K. Korff, SCICOP and Promethius Books, > >> As I understand it your argument against Ray Santilli's copyright > >> on the images from the alien autopsy film that you have used in > >> your books is that these photos are in the public domain. > >> Now, let's get this straight. They are in the public domain because > >> the cameraman was employed by the US Government when he shot them, > >> right. And that puts them in the public domain. > >> Hey, wait a munute, by arguing this aren't you arguing that the > >> film is real, and the cameraman's story true??? > >> If the film is a hoax created by Ray Santilli, then there is > >> absolutely no question that he owns the copyright to the images. > >> You can't have it both ways. > >> Bob Shell > >To All: > Bob is absolutely correct. I have also posed this question to > Mr. Korff who has snidely blown me off. (This must be the only > way he knows how to communicate.) > >Anyone out there with a different take on this Id sure like to hear it. > It seemed quite clear to me that Korff is attempting to tip Santilli's > hand. If Santilli claims copyright and wishes to take legal action > then everything about the ownership of the video will have to come out > in court, he can no longer stall with promises to release material to > Kodak etc. > Dave Everett. Dave and all: There is nothing to tip. I have seen the CR form. Santilli has a legal transfer agreement from the original photographer/enlisted man. IT says: Date of creation: 1947. By: Anonymous. Where I have a problem is that the photographer/enlisted man lifted the reels of film in the first place. He claims "copyright abandonment" which is possible, but there are specific details to that that I am sure he does not meet. And possession in the material object does not bestow copyright. My question remains, how can he legally transfer it, if first it is in the public domain and second, he cant own the object, nor the images. If this does go to court it will be very interesting. Search for other documents from or mentioning: c549597 | deverett |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 3 Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 17:48:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 21:19:02 -0400 Subject: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity > Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 09:05:32 +1000 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity > >From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > >Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 12:26:40 -0500 > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity > >> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 11:15:09 -0700 > >> From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> > >> To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> > >> Subject: The question of UFO witness anonymity > >> List, > >> The bottom line should be that if you have an anonymous > >> witness, they should stay that way. My congratulations > >> to Linda on her son's small role in "Two Bits"! > >> Regards, > >> Scott K. Hale > >To All: > >I tend to disagree. I think as soon as a witness turns an event or > >sighting into a money making proposition they loose their right to > >anonymity. That simply allows a liar to hide. If they can take the > >money then they should take the heat. They must be held accountable > >for every word they say and write. > Well said. But it's a sad fact of Ufology that almost all testimony is > unfalsifiable, thus requiring the investigation into a persons credibility. > IMO credibility _should_ be irrelevant. > Take the recent weird claims about Stan Friedman that were posted > here. Friedman's credibility is unimportant, only the data should > matter. > Dave Everett. I disagree. Leonard Stringfield was into UFO gov conspriracy before most people had ever thought about it. No one had more "crazy" stories than Stringfield, but it was his innate honesty and integrity that made one take a second look at the info. I could be wrong but I dont think he got rich with his investigations. Nor do I think he anonymous witnesses did. I simply think that if one puts one's story out AND GETS PAID FOR IT they have the obligation to stand up and back up what they say. Search for other documents from or mentioning: c549597 | deverett |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 3 Re: Question for KKK, CSICOP & Prometheus Books From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 18:05:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 21:21:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for KKK, CSICOP & Prometheus Books > From: XianneKei@aol.com > Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 21:36:57 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: Question for KKK, CSICOP & Prometheus Books > From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 12:58:48 -0500 > Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 17:21:57 -0400 > Subject: Re: Question for KKK, SCICOP & Promethius Books > > I have not read Korffs book...most likely won't...but it seems to me > > that if he has used stills from the AA video then he has proven > > Santilli's claim that the films were taken in 1947, by an enlisted > > photographer, which put them in public domain. > Maybe I just fell off the truck along with Guy Kirkwood's DD-214, > but tell me how using frames from Sanitlli's video _proves_ that > there is FILM, that it was shot in 1947, by an enlisted man? I have been told that the photographer was an enlisted man. I have no reason to doubt my source. I have seen the copyright registration from the Library of Congress and it looks proper. The date of creation is 1947 and the author is Anonymous. > I haven't seen Korff's book either. But why wouldn't FAIR USE to > come into play? Couldn't Korff use a couple of frames from the > footage in his book for a review? First of all if Santilli was the original photographer and he falsified the films then he would automatically own the copyright and a claim for "fair use" would be futile. Fair use usually applies when the information is of a public nature, and the one claiming fair use is not profiting from the copyrighted materials. > When you did your research, did you check into fair use? I'm no > lawyer, but it seems to me that fair use would apply. Anyway, the point is, by Korff using the images from the video he is claiming that the film is in public domian and he has a right to use them. The only way they could be in public domain is if they are REAL and they were taken by an enlisted photographer (work for hire) for the USGOV (public domain) in 1947. Otherwise Korff would be violating Santillis copyright. > Anyway, I hope it all goes to court. I think we might get > something settled that way. > Rebecca Me too, Rebecca. Barbara
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 3 Warning regarding "Join The Crew - Virus" From: ASIUS <asius@mindless.com> [Mike Stahl] Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 04:25:57 +0930 Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 21:24:49 -0400 Subject: Warning regarding "Join The Crew - Virus" Hello All! I received this warning in an email and thought you should all know about it. Regards, ASIUS SAUFORI ----------------------------------------------------------------- ************************************************************** Recieved very important info on a virus being spreading around by E-Mail. The virus is new and not too many people know about it. I learned about it from E-Mail dispatch where I work. The E-Mail is titled " JOIN THE CREW " Whatever you do..... !!!DO NOT OPEN IT!!! This nasty bug will erase everything on your hard drive. Spread the word around.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 3 Re: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 01:10:45 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 22:31:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors >Date: Tue, 02 Sep 97 12:21:35 pst >From: mdavis@ccsmtp.glycomed.COM (Davis, Michael) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Corso and Alien Transistors > "Mervin Kelly, who became head of the Bell Telephone Laboratories > in 1936 and remained its leader for more than 20 years, can clearly > be said to be the spiritual father of the transistor. While head of > the vacuum tube division of the Western Electric Company, also a > subsidiary of AT&T, he noted in the late 20s the remarkable, durable > properties of inexpensive copper-oxide rectifiers, commonly used at > that time for the conversion of relatively low-frequency alternating > current to direct current." (snip) >So, transistor concepts were being explored in the 1920s. No! A rectifier is indeed as the article mentions a device to convert alternating current to direct current. A transistor is something else: it switches and amplifies current. >The review outlines the developments in transistor technology >through the war years I am going to read that article, but I would be very very surprised if it said that transistor technology was under development in the war years. For one thing the name transistor was invented at the same time as the invention itself. Furthermore, a transistor was not difficult to make at all, so there was no need for a years long development effort. The transistor was simply a good idea. Once the idea was there, the device could be made by using standard components and equipment. > "Then, in reexamining a different failed experiment carried out in > connection with the study of trapping levels, they made a remarkable > discovery." (snip) OK, that could have spurred the invention. But it could be disinformation as well that is now taken for truth. I have stated my reasons before why I think the Corso/AC scenario is a plausible one. If asked, I will elaborate on it. However, to determine what was really going on, I would suggest that we simply need more precise data. James Easton started to present some information about the costs and the duration of the transistor project. James, would you - PLEASE! - look this up and present the exact dates, the exact costs and supply as many names and locations as you can find. > "The invention of the bipolar point-contact transistor followed. > It was demonstrated to management on 23 December 1947." >As I mentioned, I have not read Corso's book yet, but five months >between the Roswell event and a working transistor model based on >advanced alien technology is an awfully short time, coupled with >the idea that transistor concepts were being explored twenty years >prior to 1947. As I said, once the idea of the transistor was there, it could be made from standard components and equipment. A few months would indeed be enough. ____________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm e-mail: hvdp@worldonline.nl web: http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp Leiden, The Netherlands \__________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 3 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: rprokic@ibm.net [Roger Prokic] Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 11:58 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 22:34:59 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >From: HONEYBE100@aol.com >Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 18:08:17 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >>Date: Tue. 2 Sep 1997 02:23:55 GMT >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDates: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity >>From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >Hi everyone! >Roger wrote: >>I agree 100%. I've been meaning to chime in on Rebecca's >>accidental naming Linda's last name here. I think Linda is >>trying to have her cake and eat it too. If she wants to hide >>behind Cortile, she should stay out of the public (such as >>this list). I also agree with Glenn Campbell's rationale of >>listing Linda's real last name. We can't be pitying people >>who are selling their UFO stories, especially when they >>themselves don't stay private. >Roger: >So, what are you saying? Are you saying in not so many words, >that any person who wishes to remain anonymous within the >UFO community, shouldn't, if their case was brought public? >Are you saying that those of us and our families shouldn't only >suffer the indignities of ridicule, but we should also stand in the >background (as I have for 8 years) and watch everyone else, but us, >(debunkers, researchers, skeptics, believers and journalists) >make money on the misery of my family and I? Are you dealing >with a full deck, Roger? >Trying to have my cake and eat it too? I wouldn't be so angry >if there were some cake left to eat!! The sharks got it all during >the feeding frenzy. If I want to hide behind the Cortile name, I >should stay out of the public (such as this list)? If I had your >values, I would not have come forward, as it was my public duty to >do so. Then I suppose, I wouldn't have had to hide behind the >Cortile name. But then again, think of all those people who >would not have made money regarding my case. Perhaps they >would've bilked someone else's experience. >If I should ever write a book of my own and I don't think I will, >I WILL have my cake and I'll eat it too. There's a lot of raw and >personal material (evidence) regarding my case. But I have kept >it to my family and to myself after experiencing the deranged >enthusiasm of those who have used what has already been made >public. >If I knew, what I know now, I'm not so sure I would've let Budd >Hopkins bring my case to the people, as a whole. There's one >thing I am sure of, and that is, "I would never recommend another >person to go public with their case." >Roger, aren't you tired of swimming around in these waters? There's >nothing left to eat. Perhaps, YOU should stay private for a while. Look Linda, I wasn't trying to offend you. It's just the way I feel about being anonymous. I didn't know how else to tell my position without it upsetting you. I don't mean to hurt you in any way. It is only my opinion. And if I had gone through what you did, I wouldn't have gone public with the story. I definitely would have kept quiet. But that's me. That's whats nice about each of us being different. We all can react different to situations like this, and we all have our own opinions. Sorry again. Roger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 4 Re: American Computer - Update From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:22:59 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 08:11:54 -0400 Subject: Re: American Computer - Update Regarding... >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 18:16:23 +0200 >Subject: American Computer: Sensational Update (If True) Stig wrote: >On September 2 1997 Bob Wolf posted these epoch-making (if true) >pieces of information to the Current Encounters mailing list, and >today, September 3, Francis Ridge forwarded them to the members of >the Project 1947 list including me. >Case in point, straight from the source at ACC who researched it >(again, in response to the letter below, I called ACC's head who put >me in touch with the guy and holy mackeral!) and lived it! >Here it is, World, for everyone to hear, from the horse's mouth >(updated today, September 2, 1997 with additional facts), 'His >statement' (slightly expurgated - he talks very quickly): >"Bell Laboratories published all the historical material James Easton >found, AFTER the fact in 1948 and 1949. It's all a smokescreen >fabrication designed to hide the real history. Do not expect Bell >Labs to sit tight on this, they may even sue me for revealing this: >but the fact is, there is NO INFORMATION ABOUT TRANSISTOR RESEARCH >actually available nor that is bonafide nor provided by Bell Labs >PRIOR TO Sepetember of 1947. Stig, For an excellent and easily accessible overview of "The History of the Transistor", I can recommend the Lucent Technologies site at: http://www.lucent.com/ideas2/heritage/transistor/ Hopefully permitted some brief extracts: "In 1945, Bell Labs' executive director, Mervin Kelly, boosted Bell Labs semiconductor research by putting together a world class team of solid-state physicists. Realizing that the vacuum tube had surpassed its potential as a practical amplifying device, this team of Bell Labs scientists went to work on developing a new means of amplification. As Lee De Forest saw the potential of attaching a third electrode to John Ambrose Felming's vacuum tube rectifier, the Bell Labs scientists speculated that by adding a third electrode to the semiconductor detector, they would be able to control the amount of current flowing through the silicon. If their theories proved correct, the resulting device would amplify in the same way as the vacuum tube with much less power consumption and in a fraction of the space". The PN Junction "What the Bell Labs scientists discovered was that silicon was comprised of two distinct regions differentiated by the way in which they favored current flow. The area that favored positive current flow they named "p" and the area that favored negative current flow they named "n." More importantly, they determined the impurities that caused these tendencies in the "p" and "n" regions and could reproduce them at will. With the discovery of the P-N junction and the ability to control its properties, the fundamental ground work was laid for the invention of the transistor. This Bell Labs discovery was instrumental in the development of all semiconductor devices to come". "Three of the physicists working on the investigation team were John Bardeen and Walter Brattain, both of whom had been researching the properties of semiconductors, and William Shockley, whose specialty was solid state physics. Combining their expertise, they conducted experiments with another type of semiconductor-- germanium-- a grayish white element with brilliant metallic luster and a crystalline structure with a diamond pattern. During one experiment, Brattain observed that a germanium crystal that was set in contact with two wires two-thousandths of an inch apart was amplifying. After exclaiming, "Eureka! This thing's got current gain!", he informed his colleagues that many years of research by many Bell Labs scientists finally paid off. They had invented the first semiconductor device that could do the work of a vacuum tube: the transistor". "Dr. John Bardeen, Dr. Walter Brattain, and Dr. William Shockley discovered the transistor effect and developed the first device in December, 1947, while the three were members of the technical staff at Bell Laboratories in Murray Hill, NJ. They were awarded the Nobel Prize in physics in 1956". "The research work to understand what was really going on in the simplest semiconductors, silicon and germanium, finally resulted in the breakthrough. After fourteen years of work, I was beginning to lose faith". Walter Brattain. >It didn't exist, because the materials researched to fabricate the >Transistor came from the Roswell, New Mexico crash site of the >"extraterrestrial craft" discovered jointly by the Air Force and Army >there in mid 1947, accidentally revealed to the public and then >retracted, by a public relations spokesperson at that Testing Base. What, germanium and silicon came from a "flying saucer"!? It's important to realise that all of the research by Bell Labs and others was to find a replacement for the larger, power hungry and expensive vacuum tubes. The transistor wasn't a new concept, it was the same concept, only in a more useful and cost-effective product. Obviously, this wasn't, as suggested, an area of research which no-one had ever thought about, until someone brought in pieces of a infinitely more advanced technology. >The Department of the Army directed Bell under contract at the time >to pursue radar research into objects of extraterrestrial origin, >known today as Roswell Extraterrestrial Landers Number 1 and 2 (there >were two devices, by the way, REL#1 and REL#2). Someone better tell Col. Corso. ;) >Note, however, that at least one of the craft still exists, is in >cold storage, and is fully functional, albeit, not fully understood >even to this day. Attempts to fly it have suffered from lack of >understanding of its control surfaces and drive." I think we saw this in ID4. <g> Interesting story, Bob, Francis and Stig, worth of course highlighting. As I mentioned, there's considerable material available on the history of the research into semiconductors and the ongoing development of "switching" technology. Michael Davis has referenced an article in the 24 July 1997 issue of Nature magazine, for example. The book reviewed by Nature was, "Crystal Fire: The Birth of The Information Age". One of the authors is Lillian Hoddeson, who had written, "In the late seventies, my history focus was solid-state research at Bell Laboratories leading to the transistor. That research resulted in a series of articles published in major journals in the history of science. Michael Riordan and I are presently drawing on that research (as well as a great deal of other research) in writing our popular history of the transistor, to be published in the spring of 1997 by Norton, Crystal Fire: the Birth of the Information Age". Lillian is an eminent scientist and historian and perhaps her considerable scientific research would be the definitive word on this somewhat endearing, if not eclectic, aspect of the "Roswell" story. I'll see if I can obtain a copy and it might help place all of this in perspective. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 4 Re: Corroboration of Corso? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:14:26 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 08:15:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Corroboration of Corso? Hi everyone, This is a posting of preliminary research only!!! I have stumbled across an old retired fellow now living in Florida who claims (and apparently has claimed for years) to have been involved in the Roswell project. First of all, he claims never to have heard of Corso, and apparently doesn't read UFO books. He does, however, claim that the integrated circuit sprang directly from some pieces of the Roswell debris, ss well as a lot of modern technology. In this his claims parallel those of Corso. Now here's an interesting bit from him. He says that the "aliens" who were involved had very advanced knowledge, and particularly of healing. He said that someone with a cut or other injury would be placed on a table and a device would be moved slowly over the wound and it would disappear. Now here is what got me, he says that no healing actually took place at all. That this device moved that part of the person's body through time to before the injury took place! Has anyone ever heard an idea like this before? According to him, these "aliens" move freely in time as well as in space, and have considerable ability to manipulate time, and in this way can heal amost any injury so long as the person has not actually died. That somehow changes things and makes it impossible for them to operate their time manipulation. Time, according to him, is linked to consciousness. Anyway, I'm digesting several hours of information which was poured into my ear in somewhat rapid-fire form. If I can get this man to go public, I will. If not, I will document as much of his story as possible with the promise not to divulge his identity as long as he is living. Bob Shell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 4 Air Force Makes Cigar-shaped Craft From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal K. Korff] Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 22:18:48 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 08:17:46 -0400 Subject: Air Force Makes Cigar-shaped Craft Air Force Makes Cigar-shaped Craft By MICHAEL WHITE .c The Associated Press LOS ANGELES (Sept. 3) - It's made of the same stuff as golf clubs, shaped like a cigar and reusable. It's the Space Maneuver Vehicle - the future of Air Force reconnaissance. The Air Force and the <A HREF="http://www.boeing.com/">Boeing Co. designed the crewless craft to perform reconnaissance and put small satellites into orbit. The military says it will give it more flexibility in gathering intelligence. ''It's one of a number of programs that will define the way the Air Force operates in the next century,'' said Mike Matthews, a spokesman for Boeing's Space and Missile Systems Sector in Seal Beach, Calif. The prototype to be unveiled today was developed under a $5.3 million contract by Boeing and the Air Force's Phillips Laboratory in Albuquerque, N.M. The cigar-shaped craft with stubby wings is made of graphite, epoxy and aluminum. It is 22 feet long and weighs 2,500 pounds. The final version of the vehicle will be slightly larger and could be launched into orbit by rocket or a space shuttle. It could carry a 1,200-pound payload, remain in orbit for up to a year and land on its own. ''These would essentially be flyable satellites,'' said Rich Garcia, a spokesman for Phillips Laboratory. Initial flight tests were scheduled to begin in November at Holliman Air Force Base in New Mexico. The craft will be dropped from a helicopter at 10,000 feet, perform gliding maneuvers and land under its own power. Planned test flights in space and tests of military applications have not been funded. The project is related to the Military Spaceplane Program, which involves the development of a larger craft that would take off and fly into orbit without the assistance of a booster rocket. Last week, the Air Force awarded contracts to Lockheed Martin and Boeing to submit concept designs for the plane, which could be used to deploy the Space Maneuver Vehicle.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 4 Do Your Own SETI Search From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 04:17:27 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 08:18:38 -0400 Subject: Do Your Own SETI Search >From The Philadelphia Enquirer August 28 1997. URL: http://www.phillynews.com:80/inquirer/97/Aug/28/business/DUDE28.htm A chance to explore for life in outer space Once in a while, we come across some things that are so cool we have to share them with you. We have seen things such as the solar-power cells that fit like a sleeve over your laptop. But after investigating the Web site plus calling the folks at the SETI Institute, we found one incredible free opportunity for anyone who is connected to the Internet to make a significant contribution to finding radio signals from outer space. It is one of the most positive uses of the Internet we have seen in a long time. Starting with beta testing this fall and set to launch in the spring of 1998, SETI@Home will debut on the Internet, available to anyone who wants to help professional astronomers search the radio waves for signals from outer space. SETI@Home is an experiment that organizers say will ``harness the power of hundreds of thousands of Internet-connected computers in the search for extraterrestrial intelligence'' or SETI. Basically SETI@Home works like a screen saver. When it is active, the program will automatically download a small bit of radio-telescope data from the Arecibo Radio Telescope in Puerto Rico, the one featured in this summer's movie Contact. After processing the information for a few hours or days, the program on your computer will return the results to the server at SETI@Home. You can see the progress of the processing several ways, from the easy-to-understand Science Mode to the Earth Progress Mode, which will show how many personal computers, in real time, are helping to process the radio signals around the world. What is really cool about this experiment is that anyone with a computer will have a chance, small though it may be, to be the first to detect a signal from another world. Why are SETI and other astronomers endorsing this unique project? For one thing, the federal government canceled funding for this kind of scientific research earlier in the decade, so SETI is relying on private citizens and corporations to keep it going. Also, the data to be processed are backlogged, so the project needs all the help it can get. As two educators and amateur astronomers, we think this project is a great idea and will accomplish several goals. Real science can be done on private computers; people around the world can be inspired to learn about the universe; and maybe someone will be lucky enough to discover a signal from other beings. To find out how any person or organization with a computer can get involved, go to the Web site http://www.bigscience.com/setiathome.html To learn about the SETI project, and for information about the movie Contact, plus hundreds of educational and entertaining astronomy links, visit http://www.seti.org And if we happen to get e-mailed technical questions from another world, we'll try our best to answer them, as with these: (snip) Write to the CompuDudes in care of The Inquirer, Business News Department, Box 8263, Philadelphia 19101. Or, by e-mail, at: compududes@phillynews.com The CompuDudes can also be heard on ``Kid's Corner'' and the ``CompuDudes Hour'' tonight and every Thursday night starting at 7:30 on WXPN-FM (88.5). Philadelphia Online -- The Philadelphia Inquirer, Business -- Copyright Thursday, August 28, 1997 Search for other documents from or mentioning: stig_agermose | seti |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 4 Japan's UFO Capital (Sightings, Ancient Documents From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 04:28:37 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 08:22:11 -0400 Subject: Japan's UFO Capital (Sightings, Ancient Documents >From ABC News September 2 1997. URL: http://www.abcnews.com:80/sections/scitech/ufojapan902/index.html The Search for Aliens UFOs Bring Masses to Rural Japan =93Everyone started talking about the myths associated with this town.=94 =97 Takashi Ishiyama H A K U I,=BF=BFJapan,=BFSept. 2 =97 Long known for seafood and beaches, Hakui now draws tourists from around the world for its obsession with UFOs, as the town's UFO-themed restaurants, pinball gaming centers, bars and hot spring resorts attest. At the center of this celestial activity is the town's most popular attraction, Cosmo Isle Hakui, a UFO and space museum shaped, of course, like a large flying saucer. The driving force behind the museum, located in Ishikawa Prefecture's rugged Noto peninsula along the Sea of Japan coast, is its director, Johsen Takano, a scientist and UFO buff who has turned a lifelong hobby into a paying job. Takano's electronics background and leadership of the town's "mystery club" convinced town fathers to cough up public funds to build the museum, which opened in July 1996. "We have three themes: space and space development, SETI or the search for extraterrestrial intelligence, and then UFOs," said Takano, SETI and UFO Science Museum Habitable Zone Director. Restoring Terrestial Life The museum has space-related equipment from the United States and Russia on display, UFO-related materials, a library and a research center. Information on UFOs discuss aerial phenomena, alien abductions, crop circles, UFO contacts and radio transmissions related to SETI. Vice director Takashi Ishiyama said local officials turned to UFO's to revitalize the town after its population was decimated by an exodus of young people to the cities. "Usually, governments wouldn't participate in this kind of thing. But with our government's lead and attention from the mass media, everyone started talking about the myths associated with this town," Ishiyama said. Legend of Shohachibun The town, which boasts the most reported UFO sightings in Japan, is steeped in alien folklore and legend. "There is one legend called shohachibun, which says cymbal-like flashing lights were seen flying from one end of the mountain to the other," said Ishiyama. "Another legend tells of children being taken away in a big nabe (stew) pan while playing." But it is the town's ancient Ketataisha shrine, regarded as one of the four main shrines in Japan, that may hold the key to the town's preoccupation with strange phenomena. "Ancient documents kept in the town's Ketataisha shrine talk about flashing lights in the sky and the hand of god controlling them. The story has been passed down from generation to generation." Ishiyama said. Earthly Possibilities Identified Although there was opposition from residents at first to using tax money for the museum, they finally came around to the idea as much out of curiosity as the commercial possibilities. Around the corner from the museum is the UFO ramen restaurant, which serves up a heaping bowl of noodles garnished with little octopus balls shaped like aliens. After a long day of sightseeing, visitors can also relax at the town's "Euphoria" hot springs. Further up north are some of the region's most famous hot spring resorts, which draw tourists from countries like Taiwan who have made the museum a necessary stop on their tour. Officials expect 200,000 people to visit this year. "I don't believe in UFO's but this is interesting nevertheless," said housewife Masako Minami, as she eyed the burned shell of the Russian space capsule Vostok used to make the first manned space flight, in 1961. "I grew up during the space race, so this is interesting." Academic Aspirations Takano said the aim of the museum is not just to attract tourists, but to become a leading research center for people interested in researching and studying UFOs. Hakui has hosted several international space and UFO conferences in the past and the last one in May, held in the museum, attracted top scientists and researchers from the U.S. Naval Research Centre and NASA's SETI Institute. Takano said he started to believe in the existence of alien life after obtaining declassified U.S. top-secret information. He said data from the U.S. Air Force Academy shows that the UFOs have been around for 50,000 years and there is the existence of three to four groups of aliens. "The conclusion is the unpleasant possibility that there have been alien visitors to our planet or alien-controlled UFOs," he said. Copyright 1997 Reuters. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. SCI/TECH NEWS E-mail ABCNEWS.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 4 Re: Public Disclosure of New Laser Weapon From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 04:29:12 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 08:24:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Public Disclosure of New Laser Weapon >Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 09:40:13 +0100 (BST) >From: Mike Smith <mickey@anix340.dev.anix.co.uk> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Public Disclosure of New Laser Weapon >Hi All, >It's just been on the news here, in between the Diana coverage, that the >American Airforce are asking permission to test fire their new toy. They >apparently wish to target a redundant airforce satellite and shoot it out >of the sky. It's the High Energy Laser Systems Test Facility (HELSTF) on White Sands Missile Range in southern New Mexico. The weapon is the Mid Infrared Advanced Chemical Laser (MIRACL). It's not owned by the US Air Force, but by the US Army. The USAF is engaged in developing airborne laser weapons. It's meant as a defense against incoming missiles and enemy satellites. Similar laser weapons have already been succesfully tested. One of them knocked out a missile. Full story in Popular Science, September issue. >Three thoughts arise from this, well four actually: > 1. When did they ever ask for permission to do anything like this before. They didn't need too. President Ronald Reagan approved the Strategic Defense Initiative, the official name for the Star Wars program (not the movie) in the 1980s. After opposition to this project the name was changed in 1993 under pres. Bill Clinton into Ballistic Missile Defense Organization (BMDO). Star Wars was gone, but not really. > 2. Normally by the time a weapon goes public it's been operational for > some time. Projects like these have been in the press before. The BMDO is not really a secret. > 3. Corso's book talks about such directed energy weapons being used > against ET's. Does this lend any credence to the rest of the book. Perhaps. The official requirement for such weapons came from the threat of a nuclear exchange with the Soviets. This was a legitimate concern IMO and would be reason enough for development. The ongoing development is justified by the inclusion of intercontinental ballistic missiles in the arsenals of rogue states such as North Korea and Iran. Also justified. There may be a potential alien threat as well, at least as perceived through the eyes of some US generals and intel agencies. It could at least provide them with a better negotiating position. > 4. Could this device be used to target spacecraft and if so what kind > of damage/disruption would it cause. The test is directed at a satellite. It would be obliterated. >Starwars has most definitely arrived. Indeed. >You can now imagine our rednecked little planet strolling up to various >ET spacecraft and uttering those immortal words. > "You ain't from around here, are you boy" I'm sure it would make some aliens behave. As US President Theodore Roosevelt said: 'Speak softly and carry a big stick'. In this case a big laser. ____________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm e-mail: hvdp@worldonline.nl web: http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp Leiden, The Netherlands \__________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 4 Re: Warning regarding "Join The Crew - Virus" From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 22:48:30 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 08:26:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Warning regarding "Join The Crew - Virus" >Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 04:25:57 +0930 >From: ASIUS <asius@mindless.com> [Mike Stahl] >To: ASIUS <asius@adl.auslink.net> >Subject: Warning regarding "Join The Crew - Virus" >Hello All! >I received this warning in an email and thought you should all >know about it. >Regards, >ASIUS >SAUFORI >----------------------------------------------------------------- >************************************************************** >Recieved very important info on a virus being spreading around >by E-Mail. The virus is new and not too many people know about >it. I learned about it from E-Mail dispatch where I work. >The E-Mail is titled " JOIN THE CREW " >Whatever you do..... > !!!DO NOT OPEN IT!!! >This nasty bug will erase everything on your hard drive. Spread >the word around. I quoted this entire message because I want everyone on this list to witness first hand a oft-repeated urban myth. You can NOT get a virus spread to your system by just reading an email message or by "opening an email message". While it's certainly true that viruses CAN be engineered in a MACRO that is a file-attached to an email, you must first RUN the macro, as a file. There's a world of difference between clicking on a dubious macro FILE to intentionally activate the macro _versus_ OPENING AN EMAIL MESSAGE. Email is ASCII. It is only letters and characters. You can *not* get a virus by READING AN ASCII MESSAGE. Sheesh. Don "myth-killer" Allen
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 4 Re: American Computer Company corroborates Corso's From: mailbox@ix.netcom.com [Bob Wolf] Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 22:53:49 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 08:38:35 -0400 Subject: Re: American Computer Company corroborates Corso's Hi, I asked the President of American Computer Company to respond to Joshua Goldstein's patently obvious FLAME attack on American Computer Company. He responded in this open letter to Joshua Goldstein, who, mirroring Dan Wolman of the ISO List, accused American Computer Company of the heinous crime of "Targetted Email Advertising" by placing a Link Exchange Banner on the bottom of their Web Site Page. ---- Open Letter from the head of American Computer ---- ---- Dear Mr. Josh Goldstein: "I don't mean to disagree with you, because frankly, I can understand why you might want to come forward and take the position you took in a letter I have been shown you posted to the 'UpDates' list (along with one from Henny P, and one from Jim Griebel). I am the President of American Computer Company, and one of its founders. I agreed to post the article on our commerce website, because I hoped that if anyone read it, and it rang a bell with them (pardon the pun), they might come forward with further evidence. I was entirely unprepared for the response regarding Col. Corso's book, as I and everyone else here are unfamiliar with it, and unprepared for the now worlwide response the article has gotten. It was very unexpected. As you probably already know, the Link Exchange is a "Banner Exchange System" which publishes our Advertisements on others' websites when we publish 2 of others' Advertisements on our website. Exactly where does one find the concept "Targetted Email Advertising" possible with a Banner Exchange, which according to our records, is the kind of advertising engaged in by ANYONE WHO WANTS ANYBODY TO KNOW THEY EXIST ON THE INTERNET and doesn't want to spend a lot of dough on it? Note: we had Link Exchange installed on our Pages long before the UFO article appeared. It is a commercial web site. Legally, our lawyers tell us we must warn people who express their opinion, that their Email address and personal address are OPTIONAL and that by releasing them to us, they will be added to a mailing list which could be used for the purposes of sending our product literature, indicating we require them for the email to be delivered to us (to try to limit the amount of flaming). Although, I truly doubt we will do any Targetted Mailings, as Email on the Internet does not work well as a marketing practice, I know I don't have time to read half of my email, in my view its simpler to Advertise on Search Engines and employ Banner Exchanges, like Lycos, Link Exchange, Link Me!, Yahoo and others. You will probably find similar disclaimers on IBM's, DEC's, COMPAQ's, DELL's, and other company's sites. But, I doubt you will find any of them willing to publish the rather dangerous story that we were willing to, on our Roswell page. Josh: it has no money in it. They probably know all about this story, but haven't either the energy, nor the willingness to risk publishing it. Or, are you and I to believe that something like this could have gone down at the Bell System, and IBM "didn't know"? So you will know: It's very tedious to respond to all the inquiries, we are a smaller company (but not so small as you may think, having been involved with the PC and computer technology since 1970), its expensive to maintain a responsible position regarding the anonymity of the source, and if you think I like picking up the cost of new doors, replacing things that were damaged when our offices were broken into, nor picking up the costs which mounted in the last week when we received thousands of SPAMs intended to shut down our servers and email receivers (by the way: we do not bulk email anyone, nor do we subscribe to nor purchase EMAIL lists of any kind), or liked having to rush in at three in the AM two nights ago to work with ACC Corporate Security to block a Hacker trying to bust in to one of our servers, and stop all the little "No UFO" circles that someone was trying to download onto our home page, you'd be far from right. And if you think I like spending two hours in a room having my personal history picked apart by two big hungry OSI investigators from Maguire Air Force Base, in the middle of a busy work day, you are wrong, or handling round robin calls to and from the Pentagon... It just 'aint' worth it, Son. After 28 years in the computer industry, I have to repeat that: It just 'aint' worth it, Son. I won't deny it: we are hoping that people learn of us and our website, and get an opportunity to learn about the allegations of "unthinkable conduct" by our former partners at Bell Labs, and about the death of John Morton, and about the possibilities that technology was transferred. That's why we published the story: we hope the Truth emerges, whatever it may be. Mr. John Morton was a personal acquaintence of mine in the 60's and early 70's, as he was, even more so, to the source of the article on our website. I saw the devestating effects the publicity surrounding his untimely death did to his reputation. The sensationalism surrounding it all devestated his wife, a wonderful woman with a gift for gab, a green thumb, and a sweet temperment, his two sons, both world grade atheletes and outstanding people on their own, and his several grandchildren and other family members. I suppose when I was asked to publish the UFO story, I was swayed a bit by memories of what happened. No man deserves to die in a car, doused in a can of gasoline, unconscious, then set afire, not on account of any reason, particularly not on account of whether or not he might become someone else's liability. And, for the perpetrators to have gotten such a small sentence when apprehended, the sensational "Wedding at the Courthouse" when one of them married the only witness, a bar maid, who could identify him as leaving a pub with the victim: I guess it all still bothers me, the whole affair. But, we are still in business, Mr. Goldstein. So is the publisher who published Col. Corso's book, so was Bell Labs in 1947, and so are you. I hope that, in some way, if people learn who Jack Morton was, they will find out a bit of the lost history of our world. And, if the story about the UFO can be substantiated, then a little more lost history may be preserved, or if disproven, then we can all look elsewhere and restore our own faith in those wrongly accused of covering it all up. As the website says: if the story is true, then let's prove it, if its not, then lets disprove it. We all want the Truth, whatever or wherever it may be, and a maybe we can all have a bit of fun for everyone examining the issues, on the road to the Truth. I hope for your sake, that you find whatever you are searching for out there, but that your time not be wasted by any further calculated attacks on American Computer Company. You'd be missing the entire point and focussing your energy on the wrong target. And, doing yourself something of a personal disservice." ---- ---- End of the Statement --- ---- I wholeheartedly agree! -- "Lone" Bob Wolf
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 4 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 00:11:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 08:40:25 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity A brief enquiry, with the usual compliments, from the Duke of Mendoza: >From: HONEYBE100@aol.com >Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 18:08:17 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity Linda wrote: >Are you saying that those of us and our families shouldn't only >suffer the indignities of ridicule, but we should also stand in the >background (as I have for 8 years) and watch everyone else, but us, >(debunkers, researchers, skeptics, believers and journalists) >make money on the misery of my family and I? And I enquire: Linda, as this seems to imply that do you not have a financial stake in "Witnessed", is all the income from that book in fact going to Budd? best wishes Pumpaction D. Mossberg Rifled Slug
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 4 Crop Circle Connector #42 From: Mark Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 05:17:17 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 08:43:14 -0400 Subject: Crop Circle Connector #42 Hi The Crop Circle Connector presents THE DELUXE, GLOSSY 1998 CROP CIRCLE CALENDAR NOW AVAILABLE WHILE STOCKS LAST With STEVE ALEXANDER. Please reserve your copy NOW by replying to his email. ALL THE BEST IMAGES FROM 1997 PHOTOGRAPHED BY STEVE ALEXANDER FILL IN ORDER FORM BELOW AND SEND WITH PAYMENT TO STEVE ALEXANDER THE CROP CIRCLE CONNECTOR 27 ST FRANCIS ROAD GOSPORT HANTS PO12 2UG ENGLAND TEL: 01705 352867 ................................................................................ ......................................................................... PLEASE SEND ME .............. COPIES OF THE 1998 DELUXE CROP CIRCLE CALENDAR AT: UK 12.00 pounds sterling EACH/EUROPEAN ORDERS 14.00 pounds sterling EACH/USA 16.00 pounds sterling EACH - ALL PRICES INC. P+P. OVERSEAS ORDERS PLEASE MAKE CHEQUES PAYABLE IN BRITISH POUNDS DRAWN ON A BANK WITH A BRITISH BRANCH. CHEQUES MADE PAYABLE TO S. ALEXANDER. PLEASE NOTE EURO CHEQUES ARE ACCEPTABLE. PLEASE SEND MY ORDER TO: (PLEASE PRINT IN BLOCK CAPITALS) NAME............................................................................ ....... ADDRESS......................................................................... ....... ................................................................................ ....... ................................................................................ ....... I ENCLOSE A CHEQUE FOR....................................................................... PLEASE ALLOW 28 DAYS FOR DELIVERY DUE TO DEMAND Please print out this ordering form and send it to Steve at the above. We will upload a web page for this 1998 calendar with the 12 selected images for the calendar months within a few days at: http://ww.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/calendar98.html All the best Mark and Stuart * The Koch Fractal, Silbury Hill, 1997 :/\: .-- --. . :\ /: . *__/\__/ \__/\__* :\ /: ./__ __\. Mark Fussell: ':\ /:' mailto:mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk .'__/ \__'. \ / Subscribe: :/_ __ __ _\: news:alt.paranormal.crop-circles * :\/: \ / :\/: * . :/ \: . The Crop Circle Connector Web Site at: .-- --. http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/connector.html :\/: *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 4 Re: American Computer - Update From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 07:18:12 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 08:49:52 -0400 Subject: Re: American Computer - Update Yehuda Sharvit writes: >Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 01:12:56 +0300 >From: Yehuda Sharvit <ysvit@netvision.net.il> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: American Computer - Update >> From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 18:16:23 +0200 >> Subject: American Computer: Sensational Update (If True) >> On September 2 1997 Bob Wolf posted these epoch-making (if true) pieces >> of information to the Current Encounters mailing list, and today, >> September 3, Francis Ridge forwarded them to the members of the Project >> 1947 list including me. >> Thanks a lot Bob for your unremitting and splendid research. >[snip] >The 1948 Bell transistors was primitive germanium BiPolar devices, it's >ridiculous to claim that they was A copy from advanced alien 24 century >technology. Which is exactly what the text says. It doesn't connect the patents with the primitive germanium BiPolar devices (the 1948 transistor) but the research into the "polysilicon, arsenic and boron material": "They indicated that Bell Labs diodes (germanium) were rather primitive current-wave polarity filtering devices in June of 1947, and that in September of 1947 the Department of the Army directed Bell under contract at the time to pursue radar research into objects of extraterrestrial origin, known today as Roswell Extraterrestrial Landers Number 1 and 2 (there were two devices, by the way, REL#1 and REL#2). Bell agreed and took the pieces of material to the Murray Hill facility into a Laboratory. There, under top secret protocol, they took apart a photonic transducer, and an electronic device, leaving other parts of the crafts intact, discovering several microscopic fragments in the dissections that resembled devices that had been theorized by scientists, but which Bell was unable to manufacture as it had no idea how to compose them. Using materials similar in nature to what the spectagraphics department determined was a polysilicon, arsenic and boron material, they were able to first devise an amplifying effect within weeks of the research, and using a variety of methods, they tried to recreate the same materials and apply various electrical currents to them. Please note that the earthshaking nature of the discovery was not missed by Bell Labs execs and attorneys: they reported that their findings by Radar Microscopy of the objects given them by the Department of the Army was inconclusive, to the Army. But, in point of fact, their research into these 'extraterrestrial' objects was FAR FROM INCONCLUSIVE - and, well, basically, the War Department of the Army was Hoodwinked by Bell. Attorneys of the Lab, about seven months later, filed patents in the names of field lab scientists who were sworn to secrecy, in middle 1948, and, amid it all, the Transistor was born and Bell proceeded to play out a long term exercise in secret profiteering that is unparalleled in human history! It plays out like a Star Trek movie."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 4 Re: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 06:56:03 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 09:58:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors >Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 01:10:45 +0200 (MET DST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors [text deleted] >I am going to read that article, but I would be very very >surprised if it said that transistor technology was under >development in the war years. For one thing the name >transistor was invented at the same time as the invention >itself. Furthermore, a transistor was not difficult to make >at all, so there was no need for a years long development >effort. The transistor was simply a good idea. Once the >idea was there, the device could be made by using standard >components and equipment. >> "Then, in reexamining a different failed experiment carried out in >> connection with the study of trapping levels, they made a remarkable >> discovery." (snip) >OK, that could have spurred the invention. But it could be >disinformation as well that is now taken for truth. >I have stated my reasons before why I think the Corso/AC >scenario is a plausible one. If asked, I will elaborate on it. >However, to determine what was really going on, I would suggest >that we simply need more precise data. >James Easton started to present some information about the costs >and the duration of the transistor project. James, would you >- PLEASE! - look this up and present the exact dates, the >exact costs and supply as many names and locations as you can find. >> "The invention of the bipolar point-contact transistor followed. >> It was demonstrated to management on 23 December 1947." >>As I mentioned, I have not read Corso's book yet, but five months >>between the Roswell event and a working transistor model based on >>advanced alien technology is an awfully short time, coupled with >>the idea that transistor concepts were being explored twenty years >>prior to 1947. >As I said, once the idea of the transistor was there, it could be >made from standard components and equipment. A few months would >indeed be enough. As noted, there is a fairly good paper trail that follows the development (or at least the alleged development) of semi-conductor technology in the world. But the source recently quoted indicated that a significant date in the transistor's history was late in 1947, and this could have nothing to do with the alleged actions of Corso in 1960-61 while assigned to the Pentagon. How many here can remember that the power of one's portable radio was measured by the number of transistor's it had on the circuit board? There was feeling of pride (or was it perhaps power) one felt when you realized that your radio had nine transistors, while all your friend's radios had only six or seven transistors. It was part of the advertising scheme used in the U.S. to sell radios in the late 50's, which means transistors were in commercial production long before Corso allegedly began his "seeding" project. Integrated circuits, on the other hand, weren't available commercially until the mid to late '60s. I would suspect that it would be nearly impossible to retro-engineer a device of alien origen, unless one understood the concepts that were being used by its technology. One would have to develop the science to support the concepts and integrate with with our current knowledge base. This would then allow for further understanding of it works. On the other hand, if the technology wasn't all that "alien", one might be able to develop a quicker understanding of how to make better use of existing concepts. But I wouldn't expect to find too much of a paper trail to prove anything. I would doubt that any scientist or engineer involved would admit that they were visited by some guy who had a few really great ideas on how to make their electronics much smaller and use less power. Even if it was true, most would have developed their own rationalized story as to how it was conceived.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 4 Re: Corroboration of Corso? From: "Tim Joiner" <tjoiner@flash.net> Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 08:19:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 10:04:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Corroboration of Corso? > Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:14:26 -0400 > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> > Subject: Corroboration of Corso??? > To: Errol Bruce-Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> [SNIP] > Anyway, I'm digesting several hours of information which was poured > into my ear in somewhat rapid-fire form. If I can get this man to > go public, I will. If not, I will document as much of his story as > possible with the promise not to divulge his identity as long as he > is living. Sounds like a great idea. Just ask Linda Cortile about how well that works. TIm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 4 PROJECT-1947 - For French Speaking Ufologists From: Jacques Poulet <jpoulet@GENERATION.NET> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 18:29:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 10:24:01 -0400 Subject: PROJECT-1947 - For French Speaking Ufologists Hi all, I'm looking for French speaking ufologists. Each fall, here in Montreal, we organize a UFO conference in French and we are looking for international speakers. So if any of you are speaking French, well enough to give a lecture, please let me know. Thanks, Cet automne, Vid=E9otron pr=E9sentera =E0 nouveau l'=E9mission =C9NIGMES. Ce d=E9bat t=E9l=E9vis=E9 pr=E9sente des invit=E9s repr=E9sentants= diff=E9rents aspects du paranormal, de l'insolite et de l'=E9trange. Les recherchistes d'=C9NIGMES sont =E0 pr=E9parer les th=E8mes des =E9missions pour la saison 97/98. En voici une liste: La Bible (Les origines) La Bible (Les symboles) Jack l'=E9ventreur La Psychom=E9trie Les qu=EAtes mystiques La Transcommunication Les crimes occultes Les fraudes scientifiques La disparition des Dinosaures Les intra-terrestres Les extraterrestres dans l'antiquit=E9 Les cercles c=E9r=E9aliers Les sourciers Curiosit=E9s Anomalies Spatiales Aux limites de la science Soucoupes volantes & Science-Fiction Mutilations Animales Disparitions myst=E9rieuses Anomalies qui d=E9fient la science Messagers des extraterrestres L'Atlantide JFK L'Hypnose Le voyage dans le temps Nous sommes =E0 la recherche d'individu qui pourrait venir s'exprimer sur l'un de ces sujets, ou d'autres non =E9num=E9r=E9 ici. Les enregistrements se feront soit =E0 Montr=E9al, soit sur la Rive-Sud de Montr=E9al. Comme il s'agit d'une cha=EEne de t=E9l=E9 communautaire, il est entendu qu'il s'agit ici de b=E9n=E9volat. Si vous =EAtes vraiment trop loin pour venir en studio, une entrevue t=E9l=E9phonique pourrait =EAtre une alternative (dans certain cas). Si vous avez d'autres sujets d'=E9mission =E0 proposer, n'h=E9sitez surtout pas! Vous pouvez me contacter par email. Jacques Poulet, Directeur SOS OVNI Qu=E9bec Case Postale 143 St-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Qc CANADA J3B 6Z1 http://www.total.net/~flex01/index.htm (fran=E7ais) T=E9l:(514)536-0140 Fax:(514)536-0141
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 4 PROJECT-1947 - US Navy Studied Frisbees in the From: Ed Stewart <egs@NETCOM.COM> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 04:57:02 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 10:27:22 -0400 Subject: PROJECT-1947 - US Navy Studied Frisbees in the Hello list members, Does anyone know anything more about the U.S. Navy study below? They spent about as much money ('72 dollars) as did the University of Colorado study (Condon committee) on the heels, timewise, of the Colorado study. As a side note: Frisbee toys made their first appearance in the 50's. The saucer design for spaceships in science fiction can be seen as early as 1930 in the Buck Rogers comic strip drawn by Dick Calkins: "The Tiger Men of Mars" (No.384, '30). Some spherical UFOs can be seen on covers of "Amazing Stories" (March '29). Some of the "helicopter" toys from the 40's were renamed as "saucer" toys during the early 50's. There may be even earlier references to disk shaped flying objects in the sci-fi literature and/or toy industry. ------------------------------------------------------- THE REGISTER, SANTA ANA, CA Thursday (m), October 26, 1972 The Lighter Side Experimental Frisbee Disguise For UFO? by Dick West Washington (UPI) Washington (UPI) - I direct your attention to two recent news items that nobody has seen fit to correlate until now. Item 1: Residents in the area of Forth Worth, Tex., reported seeing bright orange objects streaking across the sky Sunday night. An Air Force spokesman said nothing was spotted on radar that might account for the sightings. Item 2: It was disclosed over the weekend that the U.S. Navy has spent $375,000 during the past four years studying the flight characteristics of Frisbees. The tests included having engineers scale a 1,000-foot cliff in Utah and fling the plastic toys over the precipice while tracking cameras monitored the flights. In a report on "Adaptation of the "Frisbee Flight Principle to the delivery of Special Ordinance," the Navy said it was investigating possible new ways of delivering flares. Or, as the Navy put it, "an air-launch illumination system using a gyroscopically stabilized disc." But the project didn't pan out. Correlation: By this time, of course, you have already grasped the relationship between these two events and have become convinced in your own mind that the Navy has come up with a new secret weapon. Should any substantiating evidence be needed, consider these points: --- Even so prodigious a spender as the U.S. Navy couldn't possibly have blown over a third of a million dollars flight testing Frisbees. That sum surely must have included funds for "development" as well as "research," indicating that the project has reached the production stage. --- The Fort Worth area is teeming with defense industries that produced, among other notable instruments of warfare, the famed TFX (Tactical Fighter Experimental) airplane. Some plant in the area could well be the prime contractor for the TFX's successor, the FTX (Frisbee Torpedo Experiment}, which would account for those fiery orange objects seen in the sky. (Note: the Navy only said it was abandoning the Frisbee principle as a means of delivering flares. It pointely said nothing about converting Frisbees into flying torpedoes.) The Navy most likely will deny that any such exists. But if sea battles of the future are fought with Unidentified Flying Objects, remember that you read it here first. -------------------------------------------------------- Apparently, the Navy's experience with the FlapJack in the 40s/50s did not make the Navy lose interest over the aerodynamic potentiality of disk/saucer shaped object. Anyone know of any similar studies that may have been continued in the last 25 years since this Navy study? Ed Stewart ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart egs@netcom.com | So Man, who here seems principal alone, There is Something | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Going On! ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, Salvador Freixedo ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. --------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man -------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 4 UFOs on 'Voice of Russia' From: rossdowe <rossdowe@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 00:10:42 +1000 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 10:34:39 -0400 Subject: UFOs on 'Voice of Russia' Ross Dowe from IPPs - National UFO Hotline asks Voice of Russia. What are the feeling on UFOs in Russia plus more. VOR answered these questions today at 9.00 UTC 4 th Sept 1997. Select this page then go down to Voice of Russia. http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/1177/index.htm Ross Dowe
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 4 PROJECT-1947 - Re: AW: PROJECT SIGN Cases Not In From: Don Ledger <dledger@ISTAR.CA> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 20:30:00 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 10:37:37 -0400 Subject: PROJECT-1947 - Re: AW: PROJECT SIGN Cases Not In Ed Stewart wrote: > CONTENTS OF PROJECT BLUEBOOK 1947-1948 SIGHTINGS > Incident Bbcode Year Month Day City State Country Evaluation > -------- ------ ---- ----- --- -------------------- -- -------------- - ----- > - 1947 07 15 Nova Scotia/NF NS Canada - (LISTED BETWEEN #57 AND #58 > - 1948 01 Antarctic - > 001 1947 47-48 File (INFO) > 002 1947 06 Hamburg NY USA Aircraft (CASE MISSING) > 003 1947 06 Seattle WA USA Insufficient Data (CASE MISSING) > 004 1947 06 02 Rehoboth DE USA Other (Missiles) (CASE MISSING) > 038 005 1947 06 10 Hungary Insufficient Info. (CASE MISSING) > 024 006 1947 06 12 Weiser ID USA The rest snipped for obvious reasons. Hello Ed and List, For these missing cases and the main body of evidence I can't help but think of Jacques Vallee's observations of Quintanella and Sargent Moody and particulary the latter observed during their bungled attempts of investigations of UFO sightings. Those who need a real eyeopener should read Vallee's "Forbidden Science". Sorry I don't have the ISBN number at hand. His discovery of a document in Dr. Hynek's poorly arranged files of a mirror investigation into UFO sightings going on at the same time as Blue Book et al[while Hynek was investigating for Blue Book] by the USAF brings to light what a sham Blue Book really was. Vallee withheld his discovery of the document from Hynek for some years, not wanting to upset his closest friend. After reading "Forbidden Science" it became obvious to me that the U.S. Air Force's contention that only 5% of the cases were unknowns was totally unreliable as were the explanations for sightings which were and are, highly questionable. Only the case themselves are of any value but probably few of the explanations. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 4 Re: PROJECT-1947 - Re: AW: PROJECT SIGN Cases Not From: Ed Stewart <egs@NETCOM.COM> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:18:26 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 10:39:32 -0400 Subject: Re: PROJECT-1947 - Re: AW: PROJECT SIGN Cases Not Hello, Don Ledger wrote: >Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 20:30:00 +0100 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ISTAR.CA> >Subject: Re: AW: PROJECT SIGN Cases Not In Bluebook >To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM > Vallee withheld his discovery of the document from Hynek for some > years, not wanting to upset his closest friend. If you are referring to the "Pentacle Memo", there are at least two separate interpretations to its significance: Vallee's and CUFOS. I have my own speculations, but neither Mark Rodeghier and Mike Swords of CUFOS, nor Fred Beckman (representing Vallee) seem too excited over my rendition. Since I haven't looked any further than suggesting a third interpretation, I will save any further comments unless the list members find themselves discussing the "Pentacle Memo" for the exception of asking one question: Does anyone on this list have compelling evidence as to who MR. Miles Goll was from 1947 to 1953? I would like to see any paper that has his name on it. CUFOS thinks he was a Colonel and a minor character. I am skeptical. My working premise is that he was a civilian and an important character as early as 1947. > After reading "Forbidden Science" it became obvious to me that the > U.S. Air Force's contention that only 5% of the cases were unknowns > was totally unreliable as were the explanations for sightings which > were and are, highly questionable. > Only the case themselves are of any value but probably few of the > explanations. The above is a main reason why the Dr. James E. McDonald files and library at the U. of Arizona, Tucson, are so important of a resource for ufological research. McDonald followed-up personally on many, many cases himself after his visits to Project Bluebook and to Maxwell AFB. His research convinced him that there was no cover-up, but a major foul-up on the Air Force's part in "investigating" UFO reports and it also fueled his "anger" over Dr. Hynek's "slowness" in reversing himself after decades of (in McDonald's eyes) having to know better. Ed Stewart ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart egs@netcom.com | So Man, who here seems principal alone, There is Something | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Going On! ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, Salvador Freixedo ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. --------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man ------- Search for other documents from or mentioning: egs | dledger |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 4 Re: Corroboration of Corso? From: William.Hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com Date: Thursday, 4 September 1997 8:31am MT Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 22:45:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Corroboration of Corso? >Has anyone ever heard an idea like this before? >According to him, these "aliens" move freely in time as well as in >space, and have considerable ability to manipulate time, and in this >way can heal amost any injury so long as the person has not actually >died. That somehow changes things and makes it impossible for them >to operate their time manipulation. Time, according to him, is linked >to consciousness. I could not resist this, of course "Time heals all wounds". On another note, I have heard this both from those who had some experience in the military and from abductees that the aliens manipulate time. Perhaps they have been going through walls that weren't there in another moment in time. From one personal encounter I was impressed with the idea that time as we experience it is a fundamental physical frequency and that we can transition to other frequencies of time, but when we return to this fundamental frequency of time, there is memory loss (the missing time syndrome) because the brain is tuned to perceptions at our local time. At some level of consciousness we transcend brain entrainment and thus experience precognition and other psi modes. Physicists speculate about extra dimensions of space (seven added to our conventional three in string theory) so why not speculate about extra dimensions of time. I, for one, would like to know more from your source. Bill Hamilton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 4 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 11:10:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 22:49:15 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] > Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 12:25:19 PDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > > From: HONEYBE100@aol.com > > Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 04:40:42 -0400 (EDT) > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > > >Date: Wed.27 Aug.1997 11:15:09 -0700 > > >From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> > > >To: UFO UpDatess <updates@globalserve.net> > > >Subject: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > > Hello everyone! > > Scott Hale wrote: > > >List, > > >The recent posts regarding Linda Cortile have compelled me to > > >share my opinion on this issue. I'm not sure how Linda's ident- > > >ity got compromised, but it is a real shame. She has the right > > >to a life free of UFO researchers calling her at all hours, writing > > >her, etc. > > >Some people (Jim Moseley) always pointed out her real last name > > >figuring that now that some people know it, why not let everybody > > >in on the secret. Regardless of your opinions of Linda and her > > >case, she has a right to privacy. People trust us with their > > >information and in doing so, risk ridicule from both other UFO > > >researchers as well as the public at large. If this disturbing > > >trend continues, less witnesses will come forward. > > >The bottom line should be that if you have an anonymous witness, > > >they should stay that way. My congratulations to Linda on her > > >son's small role in, "Two Bits!" > > >Regards, > > >Scott K. Hale > > Scott: > > First, I want to thank you for your sympathetic and logical post. > > It makes me feel good to know that most of you feel the same > > way. As human beings, we all have a right to be free of stalkers > > and pests, etc. As civilized people, each of us should respect > > the rights of others. In America, we have certain amendments > > we abide by. However, if someone gets hurt in the process, > > whether they make money or not, those rights are lost. Some > > folks have forgotten that I have not written the "Witnessed" book. > > Budd Hopkins did, with my permission to insure the safety of my > > family and me. Still, danger and ridicule lurked and showed it's > > ugly face throughout the process. > > In 1992, a male abductee named Richard Butler (who I was > > acquainted with from Budd Hopkins support group) released my > > real name to Jim Moseley. This abductee apparently wasn't > > getting enough of Hopkins' attention for the reason that Budd was > > investigating my case. A lot more had happened after that, as > > things went from bad to worse. My name, address and private > > phone number was released and posted on computer-electronic > > bulletin boards. Then, they passed along (in stages), disinformtion > > about my case. They used my family and me as a tool to get to > > Budd Hopkins. Some folks fell for the disinformation and some > > folks didn't and that's when the controversey started. > > Jim Moseley was the first to publish my real name in his newsletter. > > As far as pseudonyms are concerned, some people use them to hide > > something dark. But I used a pseudonym to protect my children and > > husband from ridicule in our neighborhood. As for me? Well yes, I > > treasure my privacy and I also have a good left hook. <G> > > Now we'll get down to the nitty-gritty of things. $$ MONEY $$ I > > never felt so used in my life! My case was bilked for 8 years by > > debunkers, researchers and journalists alike, as they wrote articles > > about my case in popular magazines and tabloids. (The MUFON Journal > > and IUR is not included). Not to mention, the small money received > > at conferences etc., when they talked about MY case. Also, I don't > > know if any of them were paid to talk about MY case on TV and radio, > > but the 5 or 6 times (in 7 or 8 years) I appeared in shadow on these > > shows, I wasn't paid. > > Scott, now you can understand why I appreciate people like you. > > Thanks again, > > Linda Cortile > Scott, Linda, and everybody, > It should be noted, as I don't think anyone has yet, that there are > plenty of precedents for books (in all sorts of fields) where a > principal (or even THE principal) figure is identified only by a > pseudonym to protect him or her from unwanted attention, harassment, > character assassination, or ridicule. Linda Cortile has had more than > her share of all of the above. I'm amazed that she's been able to > keep humor and perspective through it all. > If a UFO witness requests anonymity, it is our ethical responsibility > to guarantee it and protect it. Period. > Jerry Clark Jerry and all: In my opinion using a pseudonym, when publishing a book, diminishes the credibility of the witness testimony. In a case like that the investigator, by default, must have an excellent reputation, one of honesty and integrity, in order to add some credibility to the work. Anonymity on a sighting report is not a big deal. But anonymity in a case where there is financial gain IS a big deal. BB Search for other documents from or mentioning: c549597 | clark |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 4 Re: Corroboration of Corso? From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 12:26:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 22:50:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Corroboration of Corso? >Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:14:26 -0400 >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >Subject: Corroboration of Corso??? >To: Errol Bruce-Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> >Hi everyone, >This is a posting of preliminary research only!!! >I have stumbled across an old retired fellow now living in Florida >who claims (and apparently has claimed for years) to have been >involved in the Roswell project. [text deleted] >Now here's an interesting bit from him. He says that the "aliens" >who were involved had very advanced knowledge, and particularly of >healing. He said that someone with a cut or other injury would be >placed on a table and a device would be moved slowly over the wound and >it would disappear. Now here is what got me, he says that no healing >actually took place at all. That this device moved that part of the >person's body through time to before the injury took place! >Has anyone ever heard an idea like this before? Bob, and all This was a plot device used in one of the original Twilight Zone episodes. (If memory serves) A man travelling on a rural road pulls into a town and finds that he can't leave the town after stopping for coffee at a local cafe. Every time he tries to leave, he finds that his car is surrounded bo fog and he ends up with his car travelling the oposite direction back into town. He later finds that the town is occupied (at least in part) by aliens who look human and have a number of advanced devices, including one that uses a time warp to reverse injuries. I don't know if your source knows any other details, but it parallels the device described in this program fairly closely. >According to him, these "aliens" move freely in time as well as in >space, and have considerable ability to manipulate time, and in this >way can heal amost any injury so long as the person has not actually >died. That somehow changes things and makes it impossible for them >to operate their time manipulation. Time, according to him, is linked >to consciousness. This was not, if memory serves, part of the television programs plot line. >Anyway, I'm digesting several hours of information which was poured >into my ear in somewhat rapid-fire form. If I can get this man to >go public, I will. If not, I will document as much of his story as >possible with the promise not to divulge his identity as long as he >is living. >Bob Shell It is already believed that the Santilli cameraman is from Florida, and Ray has already indicated that he claims to have never heard of Corso during his involvement (which makes sense since Corso never allegedly went to Roswell during the time of the alleged crash). Is your anonymous source related in any way to the alleged "cameraman" (sorry, but it had to be asked. . .<g>)? Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 4 Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:01:04 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 22:51:30 -0400 Subject: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity Hi All Out of interest have Phill Klass or Karl Pflock (or any other debunker) ever given out the names of any of the witness's of ANY of the cases that have dealt with that have requested anonymity? There are things in the universe billions of years older than our human race. They are vast, they are timeless. If they are aware of us at all we are of no more consequence to them as ants are to us. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/ http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/Index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 4 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 14:54:32 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 22:52:31 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] >Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 12:25:19 PDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity Hi Jerry, Linda, Scott, Errol and everyone else >If a UFO witness requests anonymity, it is our ethical responsibility >to guarantee it and protect it. Period. >Jerry Clark Jerry and all Whenever a witness comes forward with a sighting (or whatever) and they request anonymity they get it.full stop.period, whatever. The only place that their name is placed/put/mentioned is the form which I fill out with their details on. After that their name is never mention again, even when I update other ufologists on the case, (if they are working with me on it), we use the pseudonym that I and the witness has agreed on. It has only been since programs like the X Files and Dark Skies have witness's not been ridiculed to pieces. I know I've seen it happen. This fact alone is probably one of the major factors in why more and more people are willing to come forward now with their accounts of strange happenings. I also acknowledge the work of others like Budd Hopkins, John Velez etc for educating the masses but it is the TV that has made more difference these last few years and lets face it before that nearly every witness was afraid to come forward fearing the worst kind of ridicule from their _friends_. I know of one witness who a few years ago would not tell a soul about a plain and simple unidentified light in the night sky that he saw on a regular basis fearing that people would label him a nutter or worse, when he did eventually mention to someone who told me I was able to put his mind at rest and tell him all about the planet Venus. So in conclusion, I agree 1000 percent with your statement, anonymity is exactly that, TOTAL anonymity. Full stop end of story. There are things in the universe billions of years older than our human race. They are vast, they are timeless. If they are aware of us at all we are of no more consequence to them as ants are to us. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/ http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/Index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 4 Lindemann & Friedman on UK.UFO.NW irc From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 18:40:35 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 22:57:38 -0400 Subject: Lindemann & Friedman on UK.UFO.NW irc UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK United Kingdom UFO Network are immensely honoured to announce that the following are to be very special guests on our UFO irc channel. Michael Lindemann: World respected ufologist. Editor of the excellent and very popular CNI News internet magazine. Resident UFO/ET commentator on the nationally syndicated radio program "Sightings On The Radio." Michael will be answering your questions live in a moderated meeting taking place in late September. Stanton T. Friedman: Nuclear Physicist and UFO researcher. Original investigator of the Roswell incident. Author of UFO books and over 70 UFO papers. A highly respected investigator. Stanton will be answering your questions live in a moderated meeting taking place in early October. All dates are to be finally confirmed. Notification of dates, times and irc channel address will be made widely available through many internet sources. -------------------------- ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk United Kingdom UFO Network http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk --------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 4 Possible x-rays of 'implant' From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 17:37:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 23:12:00 -0400 Subject: Possible x-rays of 'implant' Hi Errol, hi All, In the interest of keeping everyone updated (no pun intended) on the latest and greatest on the 'abduction front' I am posting a series of e-mails that are going back and forth beween a physician and myself regarding some x-rays of an alleged 'alien implant' that have come into my possesion. I always forward stuff like this to the very people that I can find. If the doctor chooses to allow me to use his name I will post it. I will keep everyone informed as the dialog progresses. I gotta say, I really like this guy. He's a straight arrow, no BS fellow as you'll see from his response to me. My kinda guy! <G> In contribution to the cause,... John Velez =========================================================================== Hello Dr (Deleted), My name is John Velez I have worked for last five years with alien abduction researcher Budd Hopkins. I maintain a website where we have posted x-rays, CAT scans, and photo's of the marks and scars on the bodies of the abductees etc etc etc. I met a couple while in New Mexico recently that said they were willing to provide x-rays which purportedly show two "alleged" alien implants in the husbands head and neck. ?! I would like to forward them to you for evaluation. I would also want them returned to me as soon as possible. If you or your collegues think that persuing this matter further is justified we will try to work something out in terms of asking the (anonymous) x-ray donor if he would consent to further medical evaluation or a retrieval attempt. E-mail me and let me know if you are interested. I have three x-rays on hand. All remarkable. John Velez =========================================================================== Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 21:49:32 +0300 To: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> From: (Deleted) Subject: Re: Possible implant x-rays Hello Mr. Velez, And thank you for your message. Of course I would be interested to see the X rays you mention in your message. I must emphasize some points , however: An x ray featuring a "foreign body" in someone's body does not constitute evidence for an "implant" (with the implication attached to such an object). It is what it is: a FB . (foreign body). It must be considered within the whole context : a detailed history of the patient should be taken by an experienced medical practitioner , in an effort to determine the possible accidental origin of any FB. A careful physical exam should be made (by a medical practitioner with experience in treating such patients -like an orthopedic surgeon, a general surgeon , plastic surgeon etc- according to the nature and situation of the FB in the patient's body). Sometimes, and with the elapse of a long period of time, FB's migrate in surprising ways to surprising places. Finally, a better understanding of the nature of a FB could be made by extracting it from the patient's body and submitting it to the right kind of examinations (a forensic Lab could be a good choice- usually they are the best at this ) If a person chooses to perpetrate a hoax by utilizing a very common FB that he could have gotten in a very common way (like running bare foot and getting stuck with some small object in the foot, or a car accident, or a blast injury or a war/weapon injury ) -he could cause quite a stir in the all "too-willing-to-belive UFO comunity ".(by sticking to an abduction /aliens/ UFO story) Keeping this in mind , yes , I would be very happy to examine the x rays in your posession. I will return them to you of course. Please mention your return mail adress. My mail adress is : (Deleted) MD. PO BOX (Deleted) (Deleted) (Deleted) Maybe you can give me the URL of the web site you mention in your message if you think that the material could be used for evaluation. I can give an opinion. Sincerely yours : (Deleted) MD =========================================================================== To: Deleted From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Subject: Re: Possible implant x-rays My response to the doctor. -------------------------- Hello Dr (Deleted) The x-rays will be posted to you tomorrow, (friday) from New York City. Please acknowledge reciept. After you have had an opportunity to study them you can return them to: John Velez Deleted, Queens, New york Telephone# deleted The URL's that you requested are as follows, http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/XRAY.html http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/physev.html http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/physev2.html Let me know what you think. I've been told by other physicians that the "scoop marks" you will see are the result of a "punch biopsy" yet (none) of the people in the photographs have ever had a 'punch biopsy!' Other doctors have also told me that it is 'unusual' for these PB scars to appear over perfectly healthy tissue. I have been given to understand that PB's are primarily used as a means to diagnose 'disease' in the tissue being sampled. (We) suspect the "reason" for the sampling is (genetic) in nature. I can't tell you how grateful I am for your time, thank you. I will be sharing the information gathered with researchers who have an interest in such things. You expertise and oppinion will hopefully help to shed a little light into a sorely neglected and obscure area of inquiry. Until I hear from you again,... Peace. John Velez John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 4 Project Kentucky From: brazel@webtv.net (Clint Stone) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:46:39 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 23:20:00 -0400 Subject: Project Kentucky Hello Everyone! I would like to be the first to invite everyone to check out Kentucky/MUFON's fast growing site at http://www.angelfire.com/ky/ufohome ENJOY! If anyone would like to contribute to the site, please E-MAIL ME. Regards, Clint Stone ASD Ky/MUFON
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 4 Re: Corroboration of Corso From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 18:18:09 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 23:23:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Corroboration of Corso >Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:14:26 -0400 >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >Subject: Corroboration of Corso??? >To: Errol Bruce-Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> >Hi everyone, >This is a posting of preliminary research only!!! >I have stumbled across an old retired fellow now living in Florida >who claims (and apparently has claimed for years) to have been >involved in the Roswell project. >First of all, he claims never to have heard of Corso, and apparently >doesn't read UFO books. He does, however, claim that the integrated >circuit sprang directly from some pieces of the Roswell debris, ss >well as a lot of modern technology. In this his claims parallel those >of Corso. >Now here's an interesting bit from him. He says that the "aliens" >who were involved had very advanced knowledge, and particularly of >healing. He said that someone with a cut or other injury would be >placed on a table and a device would be moved slowly over the wound and >it would disappear. Now here is what got me, he says that no healing >actually took place at all. That this device moved that part of the >person's body through time to before the injury took place! >Has anyone ever heard an idea like this before? >According to him, these "aliens" move freely in time as well as in >space, and have considerable ability to manipulate time, and in this >way can heal amost any injury so long as the person has not actually >died. That somehow changes things and makes it impossible for them >to operate their time manipulation. Time, according to him, is linked >to consciousness. Hi Bob. Well, yes, as a matter of fact I have. If you remember, Billy Meier said that the Pleiadeans had that same capability. Remember the "tree" which Billy says was killed by the "Beam Ship" when it was attempting to ground itself? Billy said that the Pleiadeans "moved the tree to another time." Billy had photos of the tree, before it was injured, and afterward, photos of the area showed the tree was not there and the ground didn't appear to show that there ever had been a tree there. Thus, this is basically the same thing you are talking about. Also, when Semjase was injured, the Pleiaedans took her back to a time before her injury, if memory serves me correctly. Yes, time is linked to consciousness...or should I say awareness. A good definition of time is: Duration of Consciousness...or that period required to become aware of something. Time is an illusion. A dream occurrs in a fraction of a second. In that dream, you may make a journey accross country, or to Mars and back. But, even though this is instantaneous, when you tell it back, it may take an hour or longer. Time requires motion. Without motion, there would be no time. That's enough. <G> >Anyway, I'm digesting several hours of information which was poured >into my ear in somewhat rapid-fire form. If I can get this man to >go public, I will. If not, I will document as much of his story as >possible with the promise not to divulge his identity as long as he >is living. I would be interested in hearing from him/talking to him. Please keep me informed. Thanks Bob. REgards, Mike C.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 4 Re: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 18:16:26 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 23:25:44 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman The Duke of Mendoza present his compliments. >Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 21:44:01 -0300 >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman [sundry snipperata] >[Zeta l & Zeta 2 Reticuli] are the closest to each other pair of >sunlike stars in the local neighborhood. Since they are estimated to >be a billion or so years older than the sun, it seems reasonable >that interstellar travel would begin earlier there than any other >place in the local neighborhood. [more snipped] >(presuming you are not familiar with all the above or you wouldn't >have asked the question). I have read "all the above" documents cited by Stan, but neither they nor Stan in this post answer(s) the obvious question: is there any evidence from astronomical observations that either star has a planetary companion - the most obvious "clue" being the kind of perturbation that led some to think Barnard's star had a planet? Readers unfamiliar with the satanic literature may like to know that the arch-blasphemer and heresiarch Donald Menzel & his crony Ernest Taves found a Betty-Hill like star map by using points generated from the first columns in a standard book of random numbers. Being fair-minded demons, they also call Dickinson's paper a "tour de force" and commend Marjorie Fish for "her industry and imaginative approach to an interesting problem". (Menzel & Taves, "The UFO Enigma", Doubleday 1977, pp277-8.) Still, they don't answer my question either. Yours &c Peristalsis D. Meningioma Pall Bearer
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 5 Heflin's Photos Draw Fresh Fire From Skeptics From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 06:54:26 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 08:41:33 -0400 Subject: Heflin's Photos Draw Fresh Fire From Skeptics >From the Orange County Register (CA). URL: http://www.ocregister.com/news/1997/0797/072297/rex.html *** July 22, 1997 'UFO' was a joke out of control, reader says UPDATE: Rex Heflin's controversial 1965 photographs draw some fresh fire from skeptics. By AMY WILSON The Orange County Register Our report on Rex Heflin's 1965 UFO sighting drew the interest of three men who thought they had something to add to the story. The first was Ed Riddle. It's been 32 years since Riddle saw those pictures. Yep, those, the ones that Rex Heflin says he took one August day in 1965 when something flew past him while he and his Polaroid were investigating traffic accidents for the county out on Myford Road on the Santa Ana-Tustin border. Riddle saw those pictures for the third time in his life two weeks ago, when the Register retold the story of the county's most famous claim to UFO glory. That claim? The aforementioned, much-investigated, sometimes-maligned, never- really-explained series of four Polaroids, served up by Rex, and hailed at the time as some of the best-ever pictures of visiting spacecraft. Now comes Riddle, a technical writer for an electronics firm in Menlo Park, who says the first time he saw those pictures was in late August or early September 1965 in the lunchroom at the phone company when some guy (''in a jolly mood'') brought them in, said his neighbor or friend or somebody he knew rigged up a toy train wheel and some monofilament fishing line, hung them out his truck window, shot them and would, maybe, just take them to the paper for some fun. The second time Riddle saw those pictures was in the Santa Ana Register, Sept. 18, 1965. Had a big laugh over that. The third time he saw them, well, you know. Laughed again, for the record. It's not like Riddle wanted to be some kind of spoilsport, tattle- tale, know-it-all, but jeez, ''a joke's a joke.'' So back in 1965, Riddle called the paper and was met with some gruff talk about how if the man didn't have any proof, they didn't want to hear it. By that time, of course, Rex's pictures were probably on their way to some Air Force lab and Rex was being followed by a Man in Black. Riddle, by the way, saw the latest Register story because a friend of his, whom Riddle told about the pictures way back before they were ever printed, remembered it and sent him the story. The friend also called us. And Riddle, now 52, had deja vu. Talk or don't talk? ''Maybe no one cares if it's really true,'' Riddle says. ''It's probably a story this guy wishes he could get rid of, too. It probably just got too weird for him, with all the officialdom interested. By then, maybe, it was too late.'' Still, Heflin, now 70, has stood by his story for a long time. And, upon reading the story, Riddle liked the old guy. The younger man thought about that, then did what most self-respecting adults do: He went home and asked his kids what to do. They disapproved of his telling. Then he went to work and asked his co-workers. Sixty percent were in favor of his telling, 40 percent said he should stay quiet. ''The younger the person, the more they wanted me to not tell. Maybe they're right. Maybe I forget that you don't tell on other people.'' Still, it nagged. He'd leave it up to us. After all, he'd tried to tell us a long time ago and we hadn't listened. Call it a test. So did Riddle remember Rex? No. But the pictures? That's another story. ''They are the ones I saw in the lunchroom and the ones we had such a big laugh over. They are the fakes.'' Heflin, who lives in Northern California now, is equally adamant that they are real. The phone company story? ''That's a new one,'' Heflin says. ''I hadn't heard that one. There was actually a time when the investigators from El Toro Marine Base came and analyzed the photos and two guys from there copied the pictures and tried to sell them as their own in Los Angeles.'' Did they get in trouble? ''I guess so. I didn't care. It was harmless compared to the bomb threats I got at the time.'' A second, more sympathetic caller wanted us to know that the much-maligned Heflin lost his country traffic inspector job over all this business. ''Not true,'' Heflin says. ''I was there 30 years.'' The third caller was George Gallaher of Irvine, who offered his copy of the 1968 U.S. Air Force-commissioned research project on Heflin's and others' reports of UFO sightings. Referred to in the vernacular as The Condon Report, it offers exhaustive analysis =97hey, 19 pages of it =97of the conditions under which the Heflin photographs were supposedly taken and the circumstances under which they were released, reviewed and evaluated. Gallaher says the Air Force went easy on Heflin. They were out to see if whatever Heflin saw ''was a danger to the United States. If not, they didn't care.'' Gallaher is not just incensed at Heflin's audacity; he says he has done the trigonometry on the position of the telephone poles on Myford Road and their relation to the size of the alleged saucer. At best, Gallaher says, the object was 15 feet from the camera =97considerably less that what Heflin alleged. A lot of that territory is covered by Condon. Its conclusion on the Heflin affair: ''Although the authenticity of the UFO in this case is still open to question owing to internal inconsistencies in the early testimony, and inconsistency of the photographs and weather data, this case is still held to be of exceptional interest because it is so well documented. This is a result of early attention from the U.S. Marine Corps, the U.S. Air Force, NICAP and the press. Regardless of the existence or non- existence of extraordinary flying objects, this case supplies good documentation of the dealings between our society and a man who claims to have seen one.''
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 01:54:49 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 08:45:20 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] >Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 11:10:45 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >> From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] >> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 12:25:19 PDT >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >> > From: HONEYBE100@aol.com >> > Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 04:40:42 -0400 (EDT) >> > To: updates@globalserve.net >> > Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >> > >Date: Wed.27 Aug.1997 11:15:09 -0700 >> > >From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> >> > >To: UFO UpDatess <updates@globalserve.net> >> > >Subject: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >> > Hello everyone! >> > Scott Hale wrote: >> > >List, >> > >The recent posts regarding Linda Cortile have compelled me to >> > >share my opinion on this issue. (enormous snip) Showme writes, >Anonymity on a sighting report is not a big deal. But anonymity in a >case where there is financial gain IS a big deal. >BB Hi Barbara, After reading your comment I suddenly realized how many of my friends and aquaintances are writers. Do you know many writers Barbara? There isn't a sorrier lot of hooligans (in terms of financial renumeration) in all the world. It reminds me of the line in Mel Brooks' "The Producers" where the Nazi suggests that they shoot all the actors and Gene Wilder responds with, "You can't kill all of the actors, after all, they aren't animals!" And Zero Mostel replies, "OH no, have you ever eaten with one?" Your blanket remarks about writers (and book subjects) making all this money made me laugh. I know some of these guys, you're wrong. Every writer I know is always crying the blues. Where is "all this money" you keep talking about. I have yet to see any evidence of it among the working writers I'm exposed to. Most of the guys I know would consider it a "good deal" if they broke even on a project! You'll probably hear from some of them. "Show me the money!" <G> In fact,... I believe that in NY if you put down on a welfare application that your occupation is 'writer' it automatically qualifies you for double food stamps, ciggie $ and other really neat extended benefits! I guess thats why so many of them migrate here. <VBG> John Velez:) John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: 'The Day After Roswell' From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 08:29:31 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 09:04:17 -0400 Subject: Re: 'The Day After Roswell' Errol I received a mail from the Hollow Earth list run by Jan Lamprecht, (see below). I've had to remove the names of the people involved, because I haven't yet received permission to use their names, but I can cross-post the content. Here goes: ________________________________________________________ "I'm back in Germany. In the meantime I read Col. Corso's book The Day After Roswell. It's excellent written and IMHO absolutely authentic because 1) it is perfectly logical and 2) in the 80's I heard similar rumours from the other firm (KGB). In a sense, that UFO high-tech transfer by the US secret services eventually ruined soviet "applied" science and the whole USSR. Soviets just couldn't match with the Alien technology. All they could do was to (try to) steal the second-hand US inventions. I urge everybody to read Corso's revelations. On the other hand, it seems that after the Cold War victory the US military run out of all senses. Acoording to Corso, they're going to treat Aliens the same way they treat(ed) Soviets (along the lines of the Independence Day movie!) Besides, it is very disappointing to "honest" scientists to learn that Nobel Prices became a farce. The guys just steal Alien technology under the cover of NSC/NSA/CIA/???. Gravity this, Gravity that - forget it! Everything is actually known. If one's own thoughts are correct, they'll be classified (like Tesla's) and/or the author will be killed (like that canadian fellow who invented orbital Big Gun because - unfortunately - just bad bad Saddam was the only customer around). Hard times for scientists and for inventors! Regards," Jakes E. Louw louwje@telkom.co.za +27 12 311-2668 082 923 6144
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 02:58:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 09:06:05 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman >Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 18:16:26 -0400 >From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] >Subject: Re: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman >To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net> >The Duke of Mendoza present his compliments. >>Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 21:44:01 -0300 >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman >[sundry snipperata] >>[Zeta l & Zeta 2 Reticuli] are the closest to each other pair of >>sunlike stars in the local neighborhood. Since they are estimated to >>be a billion or so years older than the sun, it seems reasonable >>that interstellar travel would begin earlier there than any other >>place in the local neighborhood. >[more snipped] >>(presuming you are not familiar with all the above or you wouldn't >>have asked the question). >I have read "all the above" documents cited by Stan, but neither they >nor Stan in this post answer(s) the obvious question: is there any >evidence from astronomical observations that either star has a >planetary companion - the most obvious "clue" being the kind of >perturbation that led some to think Barnard's star had a planet? (snip) >Yours &c >Peristalsis D. Meningioma >Pall Bearer ============================= Hello All, I went websurfing to see if I could turn up any information on the Zeta Reticuli star system and got an unexpected response. Rather than search thru astronomy sites I thought I'd just punch "zeta reticuli" into the search engine and see what came back. Below, is the (only) link that turned up! It's a sad commentary on the internet as an informational resource when instead of astronomy or science related websites turning up in our search engines- in response to a request for information on a _star system,_ all we can find is "New Age" sheissdrek! Information Superhighway my ass. The 'link' that came up in response to 'zeta reticuli', Science: Alternative: Paranormal Phenomena: Extraterrestrial Life: Greys Zeta-Reticulis What about, Science: Astronomy: Star system: yadda,yadda, yadda. Zeta-Reticuli They even spelled it wrong! Peter, I'm going to rummage through my collection of Sky & Telescope mags to see if there is any info that relates to your question. I seem to recall an article that they did which listed many of the nearby star systems that are under observation for the perturbations that you mentioned, (candidates for planetary systems.) I'll post what ever I can find. If anything! John Velez John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: UFO Witness Anonymity - Appreciation From: HONEYBE100@aol.com Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 02:53:09 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 09:08:54 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Witness Anonymity - Appreciation Hello Errol & everyone: I wish to thank the following in appreciation for their posts on UFO UpDates - Toronto - for their support regarding UFO Witness Anonymity. Thank you - Errol, Scott Hale, John Velez, Jerry Clark, Paul Wedel, Bob Shell, Steven Kaeser, Sean Jones and all the others who are too numerous to mention here who have private- ly e-mailed me with their support. :-) Your support is very much appreciated because it gives my family and me a new hope for the future. We actually may be able to venture outside of our home someday, without having to look over our shoulders. It wasn't long ago, when my younger son John was walking home from the ball park with his friends, when he was approached by an older neighborhood boy. The boy said, "Hey John! Your mother is a UFO nut!" Well, John popped him in the nose and this boy hasn't bothered him again. But now, all of John's friends know about his mother. Ironically though, it turned out, that this boy's mother is em- ployed by the management of the building complex I live in. She was there when one of the three debunkers (Joe Stefula, Richard Butler and George Hansen) questioned those who work at management here where I live, about the UFO witnessed case. That day, they also questioned employees at my husbands place of work. John's lucky is have such good friends. They're still close friends. But my husband works for a different firm. I like your mentality... it's nice to know that most of you have a heart regarding anonymity. There's a lot of people out there just like me. Some are even freelance UFO researchers who don't want anyone outside of the UFO community to find out that they have an interest in UFO's. They don't want to lose their jobs, or be looked upon as mentally unbalanced. It's hard enough to try and figure out the mysteries of ufology, without having to worry about anonymity. So, I thank you for my family, for me and for all the other people out there who wish to be anonymous. Warm regards, Linda Cortile
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: American Computer - Update From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:24:38 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 09:09:44 -0400 Subject: Re: American Computer - Update James Easton writes: >>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >>Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:22:59 -0400 >>Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 08:11:54 -0400 >>Subject: Re: American Computer - Update >>Regarding... >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 18:16:23 +0200 >Subject: American Computer: Sensational Update (If True) >It didn't exist, because the materials researched to fabricate the >Transistor came from the Roswell, New Mexico crash site of the >"extraterrestrial craft" discovered jointly by the Air Force and Army >there in mid 1947, accidentally revealed to the public and then >retracted, by a public relations spokesperson at that Testing Base. >>What, germanium and silicon came from a "flying saucer"!? I need independent corroboration to be convinced of American Computer's allegations, but to reach any conclusions we have to be objective, and you are distorting the statements of the company. The following two quotes should show what I mean. Pardon me for making the first one a little long to present the true facts of the case - according to American Computer. In the same post as you are referring to, it is said that the >Bell Labs diodes (germanium) were rather primitive current-wave >polarity filtering devices in June of 1947, and that in September of >1947 the Department of the Army directed Bell under contract at the >time to pursue radar research into objects of extraterrestrial origin, >known today as Roswell Extraterrestrial Landers Number 1 and 2 >(there were two devices, by the way, REL#1 and REL#2). Bell >agreed and took the pieces of material to the Murray Hill facility into >a Laboratory. There, under top secret protocol, they took apart a >photonic transducer, and an electronic device, leaving other parts >of the crafts intact, discovering several microscopic fragments in >the dissections that resembled devices that had been theorized by >scientists, but which Bell was unable to manufacture as it had no >idea how to compose them. Using materials similar in nature to >what the spectagraphics department determined was a polysilicon, >arsenic and boron material, they were able to first devise an >amplifying effect within weeks of the research, and using a variety >of methods, they tried to recreate the same materials and apply >various electrical currents to them." Let me elaborate those last words with the following statement from American Computer's page on the subject at: http://www.American-Computer.com/roswell.htm "--- it was reportedly determined at the time that simplified versions of the Alien devices could be manufactured by the effecting of several upgrades to existing technology. Then President Harry S. Truman ordered the devices "cloned" and a cover story manufactured. He was supposedly quoted as saying: "We can't keep so earthshaking a technological advance out of the hands of mankind. It just isn't right !" -- with classic Harry S. Truman sobriety."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 5 Misleading Information Given to American Computer From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 01:12:55 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 09:14:57 -0400 Subject: Misleading Information Given to American Computer Two days ago I posted an Email whose only content was one simple question. "Until the recent postings by Bob Wolfe I was not familiar with American Computer Company. Is the size of the company a major player or a two person shop?" That was the total content of my post. Today I received an open letter from the president of the company posted on UFO UpDates by Bob Wolf. The pres. stated that Bob Wolf showed him my Email and that I committed a flame attack and accused ACC of Targeted Email advertising. Mr. Wolf, I don't know what message you showed him but mine only contained the above question and nothing else. Either you or he confused my message with the other two people named in the open letter that was addressed to me or you added things to my message to make it an attack on ACC regarding their advertising policy. "Lone" Bob Wolf, I feel you owe me, the president of ACC, and the UFO Updates an apology for turning my simple question into an apparent flame attack on the company that led to the president issuing such an open letter. People behaving in such a fashion is one of the major problems in the UFO field. Due to those actions I have no confidence in you as a researcher with integrity. Please immediately post your apology to the UFO updates Mr. Wolf. Josh Goldstein (not a lone wolf but someone highly respected by his peers).
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 5 Alfred's Odd Ode #176 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 05:06:22 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 09:19:49 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #176 Apology to MW #176 (For September 5, 1997) Consider enigma of uncertainty principles=85 And the man that brought them forth Was a bright star in the blackness On which we quickly shut a door. We said he hung around the Nazis To build atomic bombs. The watchers watched him closely=85 He could've built them all along! They drank the heavy water In the racist camp of Hitler. Heisenberg deterred his thrust. He was the project's crippler. Onward then to contribution. He explained the all and all. A half turn from what's polarized, And we all clearly hear the call. He saw a fateful glimmer in logic of pure math=85 How we shimmer in a vagueness of *right now*. It's _observation_ makes our fact -- we call reality, And the truth, of course, beyond the here and now. This is why your *everything* is never what you think! This is why you're pummeled under heel. This is why you throw your trash in other people's garbage. This is why you're=85 feeling=85 what you feel. Heisenberg's glad principle saves us from mere stasis, And the wealth of chance is offered up for view. Heisenberg insures the chance that _anything_ can happen As it happens, then it can -- it's just too true. Heisenberg suggests that you can think and make it happen. All your prophesy and dreams can come alive=85 Just be careful what you wish for -- many times it has been written That the garments of your hell you have contrived. Heisenberg suggests that the uncertainty is everywhere, Under every rock as it's ensconced in every closet. Remember disappointment when the cherished doesn't happen? When standing in the line contrived to take your small deposit? Probability is reality and it happens in a curve. Anything can happen, and it must. Any wonder Bells are sounding unexpected? With the Earth abiding, violently, erosions of our trust? It's the choices that we make that are fixing points in space. Choice is but a measurement we tool. Make a choice in one way and the joy is had for all; In another you're a monster, or a fool. My hat is off to Heisenberg for showing we have chance. As anything can happen, we may even do this right! Remember nothing's as you think it, and it never _was_; And justice only happens when you make it in your sight. Lehmberg@snowhill.com You want justice -- MAKE justice. Try pointing out its antithesis where you think it might be lurking -- the only ones to bitch are the ones profiting from the injustice. Consider property seizure on arbitrary suspicion -- Consider the IRS. Consider being accused of putting radioactive material in someone's toothpaste=85 -- Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for pointing out the certainty of uncertainty. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" Personal HARASSMENT; however, the harassment index is infinite for each of us. Consider the business ethic.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: Corroboration of Corso? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 07:37:59 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 09:22:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Corroboration of Corso? >Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 12:26:16 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Corroboration of Corso? Steve, Yeah, now that you mention it I do vaguely recall that old TZ episode. >It is already believed that the Santilli cameraman is from Florida, and >Ray has already indicated that he claims to have never heard of Corso >during his involvement (which makes sense since Corso never allegedly >went to Roswell during the time of the alleged crash). Is your anonymous >source related in any way to the alleged "cameraman" (sorry, but it had >to be asked. . .<g>)? OK. No problem. I have friends in Florida actively looking for the cameraman, and they have been doing so for some time. This man was found by one of them, but is totally unrelated to the Santilli film thing. He knows that film was shot, but he doesn't know who shot it. We ran into him by tracking this story he has been telling friends for some years about being involved in the "Roswell project". As for finding the cameraman, not yet. We've got some tantalizing clues about who he is, but finding out who someone is and finding them are two different things! Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: Corroboration of Corso? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 07:53:09 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 09:22:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Corroboration of Corso? >Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 18:18:09 -0400 (EDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Corroboration of Corso? Mike, Interesting. No, I don't know the details of the Meier cases. Aside from looking at some photos at Wendelle Stevens's request, I really know very little about the Meier stories. If I can get this man to agree to a series of face to face interviews (hopefully on video), I'll post info here as it becomes available. I go to Florida fairly often on business, and he lives not too far from Cape Canaveral where I go. So I am hopefull that he will agree to sit down with me and "let it all hang out". Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: Corroboration of Corso? From: rprokic@ibm.net [Roger Prokic] Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 17:09 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 09:24:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Corroboration of Corso? >Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:14:26 -0400 >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >Subject: Corroboration of Corso? >To: Errol Bruce-Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> >Anyway, I'm digesting several hours of information which was poured >into my ear in somewhat rapid-fire form. If I can get this man to >go public, I will. If not, I will document as much of his story as >possible with the promise not to divulge his identity as long as he >is living. I bet his name is Jack, and he is also an ex-military cameraman. <g> Roger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 5 Sims, Leir and Santilli From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:22:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 10:02:57 -0400 Subject: Sims, Leir and Santilli Hi everyone, I have just learned that even though they have chosen to ignore my personal messages to them, Derrel Sims and Roger Leir have posted a statement on the Jeff Rense's web site (www.sightings.com). Their statement reads: Both Derrel and I will simply restate the facts of this issue as we both experienced them: 1. The four frames of the Alien Autopsy Film given to us personally by Mr. Ray Santilli were represented to us to be from the real and original film. Those frames are now being analyzed per our committment to Mr. Santilli. We hope that Mr. Santilli does not think we would expend energy and funds analyzing non-original film. If that is the case, we have not been treated with integrity. 2. Bob Schell has stated that the luncheon we had with Mr. Santilli did not take place on his birthday. We find this doubly Bizarre because part of his staff was present at the lunch and purchased the champagne used to toast the occasion. We certainly hope Mr. Santilli is not in the habit of celebrating fake birthdays....or handing out fake film. Sincerely, Derrel Sims Dr. Roger K. Leir After reading this incredible message, I got on the phone to Reg Presley, who was present at the lunch they are talking about. I read this statement to him. His response was, "Why on earth would they say THAT??" I do not think his astonishment was feigned. Here is what actually happened according to Reg. Reg had a lunch meeting set up with Ray, and he brought Sims and Leir along. During this lunch he persuaded Ray to provide him with some film samples for further analysis, and to hold up on a TV program. The lunch was not on Ray's birthday, and was not in celebration of anything, and Reg has no idea where this birthday stuff came from. At a later date, and Reg did not recall precisely how long between events, he received some film samples from Philip Mantle. I still do not know why Ray sent them to Philip to pass on to Reg rather than just sending them to Reg directly, and Reg was no help in clarifying this. I've talked to Philip, and he says that he was just the "delivery boy" in this and has no idea why it was handled this way. Anyway, Reg looked at the film. There was one strip showing an American football game. One piece with a man in military uniform. And one piece with "some stairs" on it. That's all. I asked him to be very specific about whether there was any imagery of the autopsy itself, and he said there was none. He said the only images of the autopsy that they have are some 35 mm slides which he gave them, and which he had gotten from Ray earlier. Reg told me that he has just gotten set up for internet and e-mail, and is sorting out how it all works. Once he has the knack of it, I will invite him to join us here on UFO Updates, since he could add a lot to our discussions. Anyway, my question in all of this is why couldn't Sims and Leir just tell the simple and straight truth about how they got the film instead of manufacturing this weird tale. By doing so, they have cast in doubt any results they might later get from analysis of the film. And, I note that they have yet to say just who it is who is doing this analysis, and just what they hope to discover from analyzing copy film. A proper analysis was done last year by Professor Malanga at the University of Pisa, but in the absence of essential information which Kodak has refused to provide it is mpossible to interpret this analysis, and even with the Kodak data all that could be determined would be the time of manufacture of the copy film, which tells us absolutely nothing about the date of manufacture and exposure of the camera original film. I have no interest in getting into a name calling contest with Derrel and Roger. I have not even met Derrel. I met Roger once, had a nice discussion with him, and was impressed with his knowledge, and with the observations he made about the autopsy. I had hoped we could become friends. Bob Shell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 08:59:20 +1000 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 10:08:37 -0400 Subject: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity >From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] >Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 10:17:09 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity > >Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 09:05:32 +1000 > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity > >>From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > >>Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 12:26:40 -0500 > >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity > >>> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 11:15:09 -0700 > >>> From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> > >>> To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> > >>> Subject: The question of UFO witness anonymity > >Well said. But it's a sad fact of Ufology that almost all > >testimony is unfalsifiable, thus requiring the investigation > >into a persons credibility. IMO credibility _should_ be irrelevant. > >Take the recent weird claims about Stan Friedman that were > >posted here. Friedman's credibility is unimportant, only the > >data should matter. >> Dave Everett. >Untrue. The quality of the messenger is important. If the man or >woman has lied about other aspects of their lives, then what >evidence do we have that he or she isn't lying about this new >aspect. Without other forms of corroborating evidence, the >quality of the messenger is very important. What good are the >data if the provider of that data has lied about his or her >background, qualifications, background, expertise, education or >occupation? My point was that testimony is very poor evidence in this case, and this is why people go off on personal credibility missions. If the data is good, the messenger is irrelevant. I've seen 2 UFOs and have nothing to offer but testimony, that is, people have only my word to go on making my credibility more important than anything else. So my testimony is very poor data. Dave Everett.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:24:03 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 11:30:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:22:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 10:02:57 -0400 Subject: Sims, Leir and Santilli > Anyway, my question in all of this is why couldn't Sims and > Leir just tell the simple and straight truth about how they > got the film instead of manufacturing this weird tale. By How could we even determine who IS telling the truth: Ray or L&S? I must say that Reg's apparant agreement with the story you present from Ray, does give Ray's story a little more credibility. > doing so, they have cast in doubt any results they might > later get from analysis of the film. And, I note that they > have yet to say just who it is who is doing this analysis, > and just what they hope to discover from analyzing copy film. Apparantly their integrity is so high that they can't reveal information like that. Frankly Bob, I don't understand what L&S had hoped to accomplish by having the film tested and giving the result ONLY to Ray Santilli? Did they do this just so they could know the results themselves? Do they think they are doing the UFO community any favors by analyzing the film and presenting the results to Ray? What exactly is to be accomplished by that? Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 07:36:41 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 11:32:18 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman >Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 02:58:41 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman >>Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 18:16:26 -0400 >>From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] >>Subject: Re: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman >>To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net> >>The Duke of Mendoza present his compliments. >>>Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 21:44:01 -0300 >>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman >>[sundry snipperata] >>Yours &c >>Peristalsis D. Meningioma >>Pall Bearer >============================= >Hello All, >I went websurfing to see if I could turn up any information on the Zeta >Reticuli star system >If anything! >John Velez Your best bet is to use dejanews to search newsgroups like sci.astro. I think there were several discussions about ZR in the past months. Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:50:57 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 11:33:54 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 01:54:49 -0500 To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] >Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 11:10:45 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >> From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] >> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 12:25:19 PDT >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >> > From: HONEYBE100@aol.com >> > Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 04:40:42 -0400 (EDT) >> > To: updates@globalserve.net >> > Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >> > >Date: Wed.27 Aug.1997 11:15:09 -0700 >> > >From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> >> > >To: UFO UpDatess <updates@globalserve.net> >> > >Subject: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >> > Hello everyone! >> > Scott Hale wrote: >> > >List, >> > >The recent posts regarding Linda Cortile have compelled me to >> > >share my opinion on this issue. (enormous snip) Showme writes, >Anonymity on a sighting report is not a big deal. But anonymity in a >case where there is financial gain IS a big deal. >BB >Hi Barbara, >After reading your comment I suddenly realized how many of my friends and >aquaintances are writers. Do you know many writers Barbara? There isn't a >sorrier lot of hooligans (in terms of financial renumeration) in all the >world. <snip> >Every writer I know is always crying the blues. Where is "all this money" >you keep talking about. I have yet to see any evidence of it among the >working writers I'm exposed to. Most of the guys I know would consider it >a "good deal" if they broke even on a project! You'll probably hear from >some of them. >"Show me the money!" <G> >In fact,... >I believe that in NY if you put down on a welfare application that your >occupation is 'writer' it automatically qualifies you for double food >stamps, ciggie $ and other really neat extended benefits! I guess thats >why so many of them migrate here. <VBG> >John Velez:) Hi John, Right on! Everyone always thinks that writers make big bucks. It just ain't so. I've written more than a dozen books, and some of them have become best sellers in my field (photography), but I'm very far from rich. If I didn't have a regular income from magazine editing and photography, I'd be on food stamps! The vast majority of writers are not like Norman Mailer, Steven King, and that ilk. There are a few super stars who make millions, and then there's all the rest of us who eke out a living somehow and write because we love doing it. Publishers are well known for "creative bookkeeping". I recently got a royalty statement from one publisher and noticed that they had lowered the percentage they paid me below what is in the contract. Well, they explained, they had to give a special deal on the book to one distributor before that distributor would take the book. Was I consulted? No. Can they do this legally? No. But what can I do??? I've got two books which are best sellers in Germany, but I have not gotten a penny in royalties because of a dispute between the original publisher and the German one! I hope everyone who thinks that writers are rich becomes one!! Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: Corroboration of Corso? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 11:05:35 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 11:34:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Corroboration of Corso? >From: rprokic@ibm.net [Roger Prokic] >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Corroboration of Corso? >Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 17:09 -0700 >I bet his name is Jack, and he is also an ex-military cameraman. <g> Roger, Wrong on both counts, my man. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: Phoenix Lights Updat From: William.Hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com Date: Friday, 5 September 1997 8:57am MT Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 23:36:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Updat More information is coming through now from witnesses and additional sightings are being checked, but I want to share an important development that is the outcome of computer analysis. Last night Jim and I took the Mike Kryxzton video footage of the wide array of lights over Phoenix. Detractors have pronounced (without evidence) that these lights were the flares dropped over the test range 40 to 50 miles south of phoenix and way beyond the Estrella mountains. By taking the night footage and equivalent day footage, we were abble to mark out the positions of North Mountain, the Phoenix city lights, and the mystery lights, one by one. Marking out the same lines and positions in the daylight footage we could then superimpose the marks made over the mystery lights onto the daylight scene and...you can plainly see that the lights were between the Estrella mountains in the south and North Mountain and Shaw Butte in the North. In other words, they were in a position placing them somewhere over Phoenix or one of its suburbs and not beyond the Estrellas. Other reports and data have not been fully analyzed as yet. Sincerely, Bill Hamilton Exec Dir Skywatch International
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: Misleading Information Given to American From: "the snakester" <snake@mwaz.com> [Desiree Holloway] Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:20:57 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 23:41:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Misleading Information Given to American ---------- > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Misleading Information Given to American ComputerCo. > Date: Friday, September 05, 1997 6:14 AM > Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 01:12:55 -0800 > From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Misleading Information Given to American Computer Co. > Two days ago I posted an Email whose only content was one simple > question. "Until the recent postings by Bob Wolfe I was not familiar > with American Computer Company. Is the size of the company a major > player or a two person shop?" That was the total content of my post. He's right, guys. His original letter is archived at UFOMIND's Update archive under September 2, 1997!:) Desiree Holloway - (perpetually dumbfounded) snake@mwaz.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/8701
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 12:50:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 23:46:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:24:03 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:22:13 -0400 >Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 10:02:57 -0400 >Subject: Sims, Leir and Santilli >> Anyway, my question in all of this is why couldn't Sims and >> Leir just tell the simple and straight truth about how they >> got the film instead of manufacturing this weird tale. By >How could we even determine who IS telling the truth: Ray or L&S? Rebecca writes, >I must say that Reg's apparant agreement with the story you present >from Ray, does give Ray's story a little more credibility. >> doing so, they have cast in doubt any results they might >> later get from analysis of the film. And, I note that they >> have yet to say just who it is who is doing this analysis, >> and just what they hope to discover from analyzing copy film. I said it in an earlier response to this same thread. The answer to Bob's question is, NIDS and NIDS is Bigelow! Follow the money. In all of this there is no mention of the fact that a very large sum must have changed hands here. The ONLY WAY that Lier&Sims (sounds like the vaudville act that it is <G>)could have gotten samples of 'original' film from Santilli was to throw a heap of cash at him. Santilli, IS A BUSINESS MAN FIRST! Where would two jamokes like Lier&Sims come up with that kind of grease. Follow the money man, it'll lead you right to Bob Bigelow. He's the one who wants to know. I'm surprised that I'm the only one mentioning the possible connection. Just as a side note, I met Sims while in Roswell. The guy comes off like a slippery used car salesman. Slicked down hair, fast talking, and very full of shit. I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him. No reflection on his work in ufology of course. <G> >Apparantly their integrity is so high that they can't reveal >information like that. Yes, Derrel Sims the "Alien Hunter" and declared "Nemisis of Mondoz" (or is that Mendoza?) has _always_ displayed unimpeachable integrity. <EG> >Frankly Bob, I don't understand what L&S had hoped to >accomplish by having the film tested and giving the result >ONLY to Ray Santilli? Did they do this just so they could >know the results themselves? Do they think they are doing >the UFO community any favors by analyzing the film and >presenting the results to Ray? What exactly is to be >accomplished by that? >Rebecca The answer is in the lyrics of the following jingle, "Bigelow-Bigelow-Bigelow-Bigelow-Bigelow-Bigelow-Bigelow-Bigelow-Bigelow-!" John Velez, arousing the ire of 'Rich Men' John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounter Prior to 1942 From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 11:43:35 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 23:54:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounter Prior to 1942 When Dominique Weinstein started his Aircraft/UFO Encounters Catalogue, he began with the year 1942. I told him that no doubt there were aircraft encounters before 1942 which should be easy to find. Was I ever wrong. After consulting much of the literature, talking to UFO historians, and visiting Dr. Richard Haines, here are the few cases, some of very doubtful reliability, which I have found. Jeff Lindell told me he had vague references to sightings by French military pilots in War World I, but he had nothing specific. New cases and further details are welcome. 1916 Jan 31, 2045 hours, local, Near Rochford, England, Flight Sub Lieutenant J. E. Morgan. Flying at 5000 feet, he saw a row of lights like lighted windows on a railway carriage with the blinds drawn. Thinking he had encountered a German Zeppelin, he fired his Webley Scott pistol. The light rose and rapidly disappeared. (First sighting from an aircraft, first firing on UFO from an aircraft.) Source: THE GERMAN AIR RAIDS ON ENGLAND, 1914-1918, by Capt. Joseph Morris (London 1925), page 81 (Credit: Dr. Thomas E. Bullard) 1926 Jan, 1300 hours, local, Between Wichita, Kansas and Colorado Springs, Colorado. Bert Anacosta, a stunt pilot saw six "flying manhole covers." (This is a third hand report. C. W. Finch, an Ohio researcher, went to a lot of trouble to verify the original story which came from Frank Edwards. Fitch had no luck. Some accounts give 1922 as the date, but 1926 is the date in all of Finch's documents.) Source: PROJECT DELTA, by Dr. Richard Haines, page 152. 1931 June 10, afternoon, Tasman Sea, Sir Francis Chinchester. "A flashing airship" seen from a converted "Gypsy Moth" aircraft. Chincherster first published his account first in 1932. Source: THE OZ FILES, William Chalker THE LONELY SEA AND THE SKY, Sir Francis Chinchecster (Pan , London, 1964,), page 185. 1932, Daytime, East Coast of Greenland, LTC Peter Grunnet and LT Tage Anderson, Royal Danish Air Force. (See account below.) THE SAGA UFO REPORT for October 1977 carried an article entitled "UFO Crisis over Greenland" by Rufus Drake. (SAGA magazine like many other magazines in the late 1960s and 1970s, also had a UFO magazine with the same title. Barry Greenwood wrote to several and found that many of the stories originated from letters the magazines received. He had no luck in getting the magazines to show him their material.) Here is a very interesting--if true--report from the article: "The earliest UFO sighting by Danish fliers occurred in 1932 when three H. E. 8 seaplanes were dispatched to the east coast of Greenland to conduct a photogrammetric survey. "In those days, manned aircraft had no heaters, insulation or pressure suits. Only the daring and hardy ventured into the glacier zone in wood and canvas planes, and many failed to return. The pilot during this particular UFO incident was Lt. Col. Peter Grunnet, a supremely rugged figure who lives quietly in retirement today. His copilot was Lt. Tage Anderson, who in later years became Commander-in-Chief of R. D. A. F., and died in 1961. "'We had many adventures flying under primitive conditions in the frozen north,' says Grunnet. 'But none compared with this.' Huddled under body-length parkas and numbed by the cold, their breath forming clouds of condensation in front of them, Grunnet and Anderson coaxed the trouble-prone H. E. 8 over a mirror like section of sprawling glacier. Suddenly, the copilot spotted a second shadow pursuing the shadow of their seaplane across the ice. "'I looked back and saw something that didn't make sense," Anderson was quoted. "About a mile behind their plane partly obscured by the glare of sun against snow, a flying object was following their flight course. Grunnet eased his throttle forward. The engines of his H. E. 8 gnashed and vibrated noisily as he forced the plane into a shallow turn, to get a better view of the alien object. "'It was nothing like flying machines of that period,' Grunnet, recalling the UFO sighting recently during a visit to the U. S. 'It was hexagonal, flat, and seemingly made of aluminum or some other metal, with no breaks in the surface and no rivets. "'At the time, I had a spooky feeling. I can't explain it. It was as if I 'felt' the presence of whoever was inside that craft--and the feeling was hostile. In the years since, I've realized that the craft was 'saucer' shaped, and I believe it really was a flying saucer.'" Do our Scandinavian colleagues know anything about this story? Was it made up by the SAGA writer? 1937 Jan, Van Buren, Missouri, A local pilot chased a flying disk. The pilot would later became a state government official. Source: PROJECT IDENTIFICATION by H. D. Rutledge, page 213 Hatch, Larry, *U* database 1937 Jan 1, 1200 hours, local, At the Virginia-North Carolina border, Howard S. Behr, LTC, USAF, retired. He was flying a plane south at 3000 feet. A gondola shaped object of gun metal color crossed his flight path. He was flying a Curtis Wright Sedan. He was military pilot flying in a non-duty status in a private plane. Source: CUFOS files. (Credit: Jerry Clark.) Jan Aldrich Project 1947
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: Statement from Ray Santilli From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 12:43:04 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 23:56:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Statement from Ray Santilli Earlier today I contacted Ray Santilli and passed on to him the statement from Sims and Leir. I asked Ray to clear up the confusion about just how they got the film and when. Here is Ray's response, which, I think, should tie up any loose ends: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Dear Bob, Please feel free to circulate this. The story circulating that I gave film material directly to Sims and Leir is not entirely correct. Earlier this year I invited Reg Presley to my offices for lunch. When Reg arrived he had with him both Darrell Sims and Mr Leir. I took them for a Chinese meal during which Reg asked if I would provide film for the purposes of analysis as he wished to have the results before his intended conference at Earls Court in London. Obviously I do not carry the film with me or keep it at the office therefore I was unable to give them film during this meeting. In saying that I promised to supply a few frames. Some days later (not sure when) I met Philip Mantel for lunch and provided him with a few frames to pass on to Reg. I assume Reg passed the film onto Darrell which is fine by me. There also seems to be a misunderstanding regarding whether the meeting with Reg was on my birthday. One birthday a year is already one too much, I'm getting old and my hair is falling out. Why would I want two a year? My one birthday is at the end of September. Regards, Ray
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 12:49:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 23:57:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:24:03 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli Rebecca, See Ray's statement just posted. This confirms Reg's statement that Sims and Leir were just along for the ride. Note that in their statements they never once gave Reg credit for arranging the lunch meeting, or even mentioned that he was there. I've also talked to Philip Mantle this morning and he confirms what Ray and Reg have said. So the question of who to believe is really not complicated. BTW, this whole bit about Ray's birthday is really strange. I knew when Ray's birthday was because Mike Hesemann had been in Ray's office year before last and just happened to be there on Ray's birthday, which is a big thing in their office. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Fri, 05 Sep 97 12:02:50 cst Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 23:59:32 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >From: HONEYBE100@aol.com [Linda Cortile] >Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 05:53:32 -0400 (EDT) >Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 12:55:44 -0400 >Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >Vince wrote: >>What Scott says about invasion of privacy to anonymous witnesses >> is true. >>But when people claim to have observed startling, even historic >>anomalous events and expect others to believe them without >question, shouldn't these eyewitnesses have enough courage of >>their convictions to allow the use of their real names? Isn't any- >>thing less than hearsay? >>Isn't the challenge of correcting our old mistaken perceptions of >>reality important enough to suffer the temporary aggravations and >>annoyances of being "outted"? >>This is my problem with the entire Linda/Dan/Richard/Perez de >>cuellar scenario. If the events of the Linda case are true, I >>would think the nuisances of the ske;tics and debunkers would >>be trivial compared to the historical importance of revealing the >>truth - on the record and naming names. >>That all of the palyers (other than Linda who still resents being >>named publicly) in this scenario have refused to go public in- >>dicates either that these putltive players grossly underestimate >>the importance of the events they claim to have witnessed, or >>that they're insufferably wimpish - or else it's all just a hoax. >>Is there any difference between the primary players avoiding >>publicity in this case and someone who witnesses a murder but >>won't report it to the police because they "don't want to get >>involved?" >Vince: >You must understand that I'm a wife and mother first. Every- >thing else in my life is last. My first responsibility is not to >the UFO communtiy. It's to my family. There is no way that I would >compromise the safety and well being of my family, or anyone else >for that matter, for the benefit of UFO research. >I believe that I have done my part by allowing Hopkins to bring my >case public, along with myself. As far as the other witnesses are >concerned, there are 22 of them (on different levels). Only three >of them have not come forward to speak with Budd and I can >understand why. If I held a position that any one of those three >held, I wouldn't have come forward either. We had hoped that >they would've discussed the event with Hopkins in the future as >Richard and Dan said they would. However, they must have found >out how disfunctional some of those within the UFO community >are, and it drove them away. They must have seen what I was put >through, as a good example of what might have happened to them >had they come forward. I don't know. I can't speak for them. Hi Linda, While you have been extremely forthcoming (public speaking, participating in this list, etc.), you have to admit that the three alleged eyewitnesses to your event seem to be suffering from the "insufferable wimpishness" to which I referred in my original post. Assuming that your case is true just as you've stated, the three "eyewitnesses" would have to be utter wimps -- too timid and afraid to not only confirm a socially and scientifically significant event -- but leaving you twisting in the wind as, in the minds of many, the mastermind of a collosal hoax. I personally can't square their apparent indifference to confirming your tale -- for the benefit of all humanity as well as for you personally -- with their professed (as reported in "Witnessed") affection for you. How do you explain this? Do you acknowledge that the "eyewitnesses"' refusal to come forward casts doubt upon your claims? >To you, if you can't have your own way, then witnesses who do not >come forward publicly or release their real names, are either under- >estimating the importance of the events they claim to have witnessed, >or that they're insufferably wimpish - or else it's just a hoax. >Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. But I don't. In fact, I'm glad >that the three most important witnesses did not come forward. If >they had, the quality of my family's life and mine would've been >unbearable. The third man denied ever being involved with my case, as >was expected. He told us that he would deny it if his name ever >became public, etc. Well, his name did become public. How would confirmation of your account negatively impact your family's situation? Wouldn't you rather have everybody know you were telling the truth all along? Wouldn't an unambiguous confirmation put the abduction phenomenon front and center in the media and scientific spotlight? Wouldn't that be a good thing? >No Vince, the aggravations and annoyances haven't been temporary. >From what I hear and experienced, it'll probably go on for most of >our lives. But to tell you the truth, my family and I feel better >about it, after all these years. We don't particularly care about >what others think. >Take my word for it, if you please. The quality of UFO research by >some, is good. As far as I'm concerned, if it weren't for the handful >of those researchers (maybe 4 or 5), UFO research wouldn't exist. >So, when you tell someone like me or other witnesses to give up their >anonymity, safety and well being for the UFO community, expect one >of two things or both, to happen: Hasn't the opposite occurred? Have you been kidnapped by secret agents since your story became publicly known? Other than for being put into a position of defending your story, how have you been harmed by the publicity in your case? In a post to Roger Prokik (Sep 2), you wrote: >Are you saying that those of us and our families shouldn't only >suffer the indignities of ridicule, but we should also stand in the >background (as I have for 8 years) and watch everyone else, but us, >(debunkers, researchers, skeptics, believers and journalists) >make money on the misery of my family and I? Are you dealing >with a full deck, Roger? Other than Budd Hopkins, who else has made money off your case? Regards, Vince
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: "usa.net" <phryman@usa.net> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 11:42:21 Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 00:01:14 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity Hello All, Time for one of the lurker's in the background to step out and give his two cents worth. It is obvious from the amount of message traffic that this issue has generated in the recent past (and the amount of time that it has taken me to wade through all of those messages :>) that many people on this list have widely diverse opions on this subject. And becuase of that, we could probably debate this from now until the end of the world (aproximately 2008 or thereabouts, if you choose to believe the Mayans :>) and still never resolve anything. Therefore, I would like to make the following suggestion, so that we can move onto other topics to fill up my mailbox with: Errol, could you please make a policy decision in regards to witness anominity, and ask everybody on the list to follow it. For instance, forbid any further mention of Linda's real name on any posts to this list, and delete any messages that do mention it. That should settle the issue once and for all, at least as far as this list is concerned. Personally, I think everybody should be allowed to remain anomyous if they wish, especially if it is to protect themselves and/or their famliy members. Hopefully we can settle this issue now and move on. Mike Modrow (oops, used my real name, oh well, it's out now)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:58:05 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 00:14:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors Steven Kaeser writes: >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 06:56:03 -0400 >Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 09:58:05 -0400 >Subject: Re: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors >As noted, there is a fairly good paper trail that follows the >development (or at least the alleged development) of >semi-conductor technology in the world. But the source recently >quoted indicated that a significant date in the transistor's history >was late in 1947, and this could have nothing to do with the >alleged actions of Corso in 1960-61 while assigned to the >Pentagon. Corso writes that "the initial introduction of the integrated-circuit chips from the Roswell crash had reached defense contractors as early as 1947 in the weeks after the material reached Wright Field." But to put his remark in perspective I'll give you the whole passage ("The Day After Roswell" p. 177f): "General Trudeau and I had quickly established our routine in early 1961, and our categorization of how we did our jobs seemed to be working. Night vision was under development at Fort Belvoir, and researchers who worked with us had made sure that the silicon wafer had gotten to their colleagues at Bell Labs and assured us that a new generation of transistorized circuitry was already finding its way into development. The silicon chips were a covert reintroduction to the people at Bell Labs because the initial introduction of the integrated-circuit chips from the Roswell crash had reached defense contractors as early as 1947 in the weeks after the material reached Wright Field. A similar history of introduction and reintroduction had occurred with stimulated-energy radiation, a weapon that early analysts believed they were looking at in the wreckage of the Roswell craft. Since directed-energy radiation was a technology we'd already deployed in World War II, seeing what they thought was a super-advanced version of that technology, so advanced as to be in a completely different realm, so excited the analysts at Wright Field that they wanted to get it out to their research scientists as quickly as possible, which they did. And by the early 1950's, a version of stimulated-energy radiation had found its way into the scientific community, which was developing new products around the process of microwave generation." Corso then goes on to explain in detail how the stimulated-energy radiation device of the craft tallied with the theories behind the microwave oven e.g. - the first commercial ones being produced by Raytheon in Massachusetts in 1947 "before any dissemination of either intelligence or material from the Roswell craft had occurred" - and the way the introduction and reintroduction of the Roswell technology ultimately resulted in the laser.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 15:41:42 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 00:21:46 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:50:57 -0400 >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> [text deleted] >Right on! Everyone always thinks that writers make big bucks. It just >ain't so. I've written more than a dozen books, and some of them have >become best sellers in my field (photography), but I'm very far from >rich. If I didn't have a regular income from magazine editing and >photography, I'd be on food stamps! The vast majority of writers are >not like Norman Mailer, Steven King, and that ilk. There are a few >super stars who make millions, and then there's all the rest of us who >eke out a living somehow and write because we love doing it. [additional text deleted] >I hope everyone who thinks that writers are rich becomes one!! >Bob While those who write books may not make very much money, they should be held accountable for the concepts they are promoting. The issue raised here was not the anonymity of authors and/or researchers, but of those they obtain information from. It is rare for an author to write a book and then try to give the appearance that he (or she) had nothing to do with it. But it is not so rare for research subjects to seek anonymity to protect their families as well as their sanity. IMHO, those who are critical of the anonymity of "experiencers" are unwilling (or more likely unable) to accept the abduction experience as a real event, and are calling into question the veracity of anyone who would make such claims. Their concerns should be addressed to the authors/researchers and not to their research subjects. Those involved in such research should maintain a clear line of understanding between themselves and their subjects regarding the information that is developed, and non-disclosure forms should be developed if necessary to establish a legal framework. It should go without saying that therapists who work with "experiencers" are obligated under the doctor/patient relationship to maintain their anonymity (however, this often defined by state law which varies from state to state). With this all said, I believe that guidelines such as these were followed in Linda's case and the system still broke down somewhere along the line. Once the information was released, it couldn't be recalled.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 15:41:42 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 00:28:10 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:50:57 -0400 >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> [text deleted] >Right on! Everyone always thinks that writers make big bucks. It just >ain't so. I've written more than a dozen books, and some of them have >become best sellers in my field (photography), but I'm very far from >rich. If I didn't have a regular income from magazine editing and >photography, I'd be on food stamps! The vast majority of writers are >not like Norman Mailer, Steven King, and that ilk. There are a few >super stars who make millions, and then there's all the rest of us who >eke out a living somehow and write because we love doing it. [additional text deleted] >I hope everyone who thinks that writers are rich becomes one!! >Bob While those who write books may not make very much money, they should be held accountable for the concepts they are promoting. The issue raised here was not the anonymity of authors and/or researchers, but of those they obtain information from. It is rare for an author to write a book and then try to give the appearance that he (or she) had nothing to do with it. But it is not so rare for research subjects to seek anonymity to protect their families as well as their sanity. IMHO, those who are critical of the anonymity of "experiencers" are unwilling (or more likely unable) to accept the abduction experience as a real event, and are calling into question the veracity of anyone who would make such claims. Their concerns should be addressed to the authors/researchers and not to their research subjects. Those involved in such research should maintain a clear line of understanding between themselves and their subjects regarding the information that is developed, and non-disclosure forms should be developed if necessary to establish a legal framework. It should go without saying that therapists who work with "experiencers" are obligated under the doctor/patient relationship to maintain their anonymity (however, this often defined by state law which varies from state to state). With this all said, I believe that guidelines such as these were followed in Linda's case and the system still broke down somewhere along the line. Once the information was released, it couldn't be recalled.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:44:54 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 00:29:09 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments to the List, and particularly to John Velez and to STANTON T. FRIEDMAN. >Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 02:58:41 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman >Hello All, >I went websurfing to see if I could turn up any information on the Zeta >Reticuli star system >If anything! Thankyou for looking, John. I am wondering if your generosity knows any bounds. (For those of you in the cheaper seats, I am not being ironic.) But surely Stan Friedman, with his oft-repeated devotion to science & the sanctity of supporting conclusions with "data" derived from "research", should have this information right to hand? Yet the Sage of Brunswick has been most strangely silent. Did you miss my post, Stan, or are you just having a bad suit day? Yours &c Pologonist D. Methusaleh Old Sore
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: Behind American Computer Co. - Addendum 4 From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 12:50:22 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 00:30:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Behind American Computer Co. - Addendum 4 Here are some more tidbits of information I've come accross on the ACC investigation. A reporter named Jan Howe from Chancellor Media Broadcasting Co. (Philidelphia) interviewed the president of ACC this morning at 9:00 am EST and is planning on interviewing him again at 5:00pm. Apparently Ms. Howe also interviewed Corso awhile back. The VP informed me that the president divulged the nature of his relationahip with the witness. It goes like this: John "Jack" Morton was the VP of the semiconductor division at Bell Labs and is now deceased (murdered apparently). He had a son who was very close to the witness. They were close friends and attended school together. The witness allegedly lived in the Morton household at different times and I believe this may have been intrumental in his learning about the details of the Bell Labs "backengineering" information that we've been getting. The VP told me the president of ACC revealed during his interview that he attended school with both the witness and Mr. Morton's son and knew Mr. Morton directly. So the president, who once distanced himself from this affair, appears to be changing his tune a bit. This may in part explain his agreement when asked by other members of the company about posting the information. I was told that ISO is continuing to attack ACC and that Bob Wolf has recently come under fire. I was told that these attacks are not geared towards ACC's data and "facts" but are of a more sardonic nature. This is all second hand to me. I've received CC's from both Bob and Ed Wang of their reponses to the flames they've been getting. I personally don't know why everyone is so upset about this... as I understand it, the investigation is far from over. Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: HONEYBE100@aol.com [Linda Cortile] Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:08:24 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 00:33:29 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >Date: 4 Sept 1997 00:11:43 -0400 >From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> Peter Brooksmith >Subject: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto - <updates@globalserve.net> Hi Errol & everyone! Mendoza wrote: >And I enquire: Linda, as this seems ti imply that do you not have >a financial stake in "Witnessed," is all the income from that book >in fact going to Budd? >Best wishes, >Pumpaction D. Mossberg >Rifled Slug Yes, in fact, my financial stake in Budd's book, "Witnessed," enabled me to fill a cavity at the dentist's office. The rest of the dental work I had to pay for with my husbands' paycheck. Pretty good, after 8 years of my watching everyone else make money on MY case, huh? It was good of Budd to offer me (which I did not want to accept) a fraction of what he was given. He felt gulity about making money on my misery. He felt better when I accepted the token he offered. However, whatever monies he's received, he made from his own sufferings regarding the unfolding and the investigations of my case. It took Hopkins 5 years of hard work, to complete his book. I hope he makes a MILLION!! I appreciated his feelings more than I appreciated the token he offered, representing an expression of his feelings. He has a heart and that's what matters to me. Now, I have a few questons for you: 1. When you published your book with my real name and photograph in it, did you make money on my misery and that of many others? 2. Did you offer anyone a token of your financial steak...opps, stake? <G> 3. Did you ask anyone of us for permission to publish our photo's and real names? 4. Are you going to say that our identities are out there, so that gives you the right to publish what you want? 5. Do you think that you're witty? If your answers to #1 is - Yes, #2 - No, #3 - No, #4 - Yes, #5 - Yes, And you answered the above questions in that order, then, you're an official, unethical member of my poop list, which means that you're a user and a pest. Surprisingly earthy, Linda Cortile
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman From: DRudiak@aol.com [David Rudiak] Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:38:31 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 00:34:45 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman In a message dated 97-09-05 09:49:10 EDT, you write: > Peter, I'm going to rummage through my collection of Sky & Telescope mags > to see if there is any info that relates to your question. I seem to recall > an article that they did which listed many of the nearby star systems that > are under observation for the perturbations that you mentioned, (candidates > for planetary systems.) I'll post what ever I can find. Enclosed is a text copy of the 1976 Astronomy Magazine article on Zeta Reticuli and the Hill case. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 00:39:42 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 00:48:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention Hi all, I have browsed the site of Lucent Technologies, the owner of Bell Laboratories that invented the transistor. I went through the info about the transistor, and especially its history. Frankly, I am not impressed. The history presented is anecdotal, not precise. The only dates that were presented were 1945 when a team of engineers was put together, not to invent the transistor but just put together, and a date in December 1947 when the transistor was presented to top management. I would like to know if there is info out there that gives a fairly detailed account of the transistor project. Not the reasons for inventing it, just the project itself. Not one scientist who shouted 'Eureka' as described on Lucent's site, but the various trials and errors that were made along the way. I don't know whether you have read books about Apple Computer. There are at least ten available that describe in detail, including names and dates, such things as the formation of the company, the financing, the construction of the first pc, the Lisa, the Mac, the coming of John Sculley, etc., etc., etc. for the learning and entertainment of the reader. Who was there, who did what and when, who was for, who was against an individual decision, etc, etc. It's all documented in detail. Same goes for Microsoft, Data General, and others. Recently the inventions of the Internet, the Web, Java, etc. were described in minute detail by hundreds of magazines all over the world. Further back the same goes for Ford, General Motors, Chrysler, the Wright Brothers, etc, etc. Detail and an abundance of information. The invention of the transistor, one of the most important inventions of this century, should surely be considered by a few writers as material to write a book or two about that include all the above: who, when exactly, where. The desire to make a breakthrough, the request for funding, the forming of a team, the initial attempts, the flukes and glitches, the deadlines, the opposition, the sweat, the sleepless nights, and finally: success! All this based on interviews by the people who were actually on the team and others who roughly confirm these stories. Even a mediocre writer would be able to make a dramatic story out of this. Where is it? Here follows an example of what IMO cannot be regarded as a description of the history of the transistor that we should take for granted. It was posted here previously. I'm not sure, but I think it was from the July article in the scientific magazine Nature. As you can see, the piece jumps from the 1930s to the 1940s in one paragraph, mentions rectifiers instead of transistors and really does not address the invention of the transistor at all. > "Mervin Kelly, who became head of the Bell Telephone Laboratories > in 1936 and remained its leader for more than 20 years, can clearly > be said to be the spiritual father of the transistor. While head of > the vacuum tube division of the Western Electric Company, also a > subsidiary of AT&T, he noted in the late 20s the remarkable, durable > properties of inexpensive copper-oxide rectifiers, commonly used at > that time for the conversion of relatively low-frequency alternating > current to direct current." (snip) This is not meant to correct the original poster, just as a good example of info that is simply not precise enough and is therefore useless for investigation into this matter. Where are the details? ____________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm e-mail: hvdp@worldonline.nl web: http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp Leiden, The Netherlands \__________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 00:53:48 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 00:53:48 -0400 Subject: Re: From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:44:15 -0400 (EDT) To: updates@globalserve.net Subject: Zeta Reticuli. Was: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman In a message dated 97-09-05 09:49:10 EDT, you write: > Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 02:58:41 -0500
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: Corroboration of Corso? From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:09:12 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 00:55:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Corroboration of Corso? >Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 07:53:09 -0400 >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Corroboration of Corso? >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 18:18:09 -0400 (EDT) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Corroboration of Corso? >Mike, >Interesting. >No, I don't know the details of the Meier cases. Aside from >looking at some photos at Wendelle Stevens's request, I really >know very little about the Meier stories. >If I can get this man to agree to a series of face to face >interviews (hopefully on video), I'll post info here as it >becomes available. I go to Florida fairly often on business, >and he lives not too far from Cape Canaveral where I go. So >I am hopefull that he will agree to sit down with me and >"let it all hang out". >Bob OKay, thanks Bob. Please keep me in mind. REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: BWW Media Alert 970905 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 16:16:03 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 00:56:04 -0400 Subject: Re: BWW Media Alert 970905 Bufo Calvin Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/BufoCalvin/index.html">BufoCalvin's Home Page< /A> TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (Permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes, provided attribution is made to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to ask strangers before e-mailing them something. If you do forward it to someone, please be sure that it is clear you are forwarding it) September 5, 1997 I've been making some progress on the website...hope to have it in pretty good shape by the end of October, although of course it will always be growing. New tv season starts soon...more on that later. Consider taping the Fox special on Friday night, and you might want to try and catch David Oates on the radio on THE EDGE OF REALITY on Saturday night...should be interesting. On to the listings! (Remember, times given here are generally Pacific) ONLINE Controversial curator of THE NATIONAL UFO, BIGFOOT, AND LOCH NESS MONSTER MUSEUM, Erik Beckjord, hosts (and may or may not attend) a regular Tuesday night, 6:00 PM Pacific time, chat room, at http://WWW.CROSSFIELDS.COM/~ufomus/chat/ <A HREF="http://WWW. CROSSFIELDS.CO M/~ufomus/chat/ ">Museum Chat</A> OMNI MAGAZINE (http://www.omnimag.com <A HREF="http://www.omnimag.com">Omni M agazine</A> ) is back to do real time conferences. The regular night for our kind of stuff is Tuesday 7:00 PM to 8:00 PM Pacific. RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE is now SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO. This has resulted, among other things, in a new website: http://www.sightings.com. <A HREF="http://www.sightings.com">SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO</A> Next week's guests not known (except for Michael Lindemann ...he'll be on at 6:00 PM Wednesday as I write this, but you can check their website on Monday. It can also be heard on your computer. Airtimes: M-F 6-9 PM Pacific (times given here are generally Pacific),. Sunday 8-11 PM Pacific. Archives of earlier shows are also available, so you can hear my previous broadcasts through this site. SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE? --week of 9/1, precognitive dream; apparition --week of 9/8, paranormal paramedic; girl freed from fridge PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com <A HREF="http://www.psifactor.com">P SI Factor</A> for stations and airdates and other info). This series is supposedly based on real cases. --Week of 9/6 THE FIRE WITHIN (spontaneous human combustion); FATE (psychic teen) Saturday, September 6 RADIO: ART BELL interviews Albert Taylor, author of <A HREF="http://www.amazo n.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0964753464/bufosweirdworldA/">Soul Traveler:A Guide to Out of Body Experiences and the Wonders Beyond</A> . This interview actually starts Friday night. (see website at http://www.artbell.com) RADIO: THE EDGE OF REALITY, 5:00 PM -8:00 PM Pacific. Also available on Satcom C5, Transponder 23, SEDAT Channel 24. The specific spots have to be considered tentative, and the station in your area may run it tape-delayed. 5:00 PM, Richard Ross talks about alien-written messages; 5:30 PM, Marcia Jedd, about "walk-ins", people who claim that there souls have been replaced by other souls; 6:00 PM, Pat and Jim Fregia, authors of <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0890877351/bufosweirdworldA/">Kn ow Your Dreams, Know Your Self : A Workbook</A> ; David Oates, the Reverse Speech guy...I know a very sharp person who is very impressed with Oates, as are some other people (I haven't looked into it much, so my intuitive sense that it is unlikely isn't very valuable to you). The basic idea is that you tape someone, play the tape backwords, and you will hear what the person really means. I have several Oates items on my website, including <A HREF="h ttp://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1579010253/bufosweirdworldA/">Examples o f Reverse Speech : Voices from the Unconscious</A> , which includes a tape. They are also supposed to play examples on the radio show. 2:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: MONSTERS OF THE LAKE (lots of lakes besides Loch Ness have monsters) Sunday, September 7 SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND: (see http://www.artbell.com < A HREF="http://www.artbell.com">Art Bell</A> for stations and program info) Art interviews Angel contactee Nick Bunick, the subject of <A HREF="http://ww w.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0671016865/bufosweirdworldA/">The Messengers : A True Story of Angelic Presence</A> , which in my area has been the subject of several billboards... LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 7:00 PM: JOURNEY: Brenda Roberts produces. 11:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5069): TO CATCH A KILLER! (psychic detective Dorothy Allison at work); UNEARTHING ATLANTIS!; WHILE LADY OF AVENAL (a ghost in American South...white lady legends span the globe); MYSTERIOUS LEY LINES! (Ley lines are lines connecting British ancient sites at their simplest, but have been suggested to be much more. A recent book: Paul Deveraux's <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=087542189X/bu fosweirdworldA/">Shamanism and the Mystery Lines</A> ); MILLENIUM WATCH! 12:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD, MYSTERIES OF THE NORTH (Chinese and Russian apemen, Icelandic lake monsters, etc.) 2:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: EXTRATERRESTRIALS (UFOs, etc.) 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5069): TO CATCH A KILLER! (psychic detective Dorothy Allison at work); UNEARTHING ATLANTIS!; WHILE LADY OF AVENAL (a ghost in American South...white lady legends span the globe); MYSTERIOUS LEY LINES! (Ley lines are lines connecting British ancient sites at their simplest, but have been suggested to be much more. A recent book: Paul Deveraux's <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=087542189X/bu fosweirdworldA/">Shamanism and the Mystery Lines</A> ); MILLENIUM WATCH! 7:00 PM, BEYOND BELIEF (some stories are made up for the show, some are based on real cases, you're supposed to guess...I think I'm not going to lists topics for this show, it's too confusing) 10:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5069): TO CATCH A KILLER! (psychic detective Dorothy Allison at work); UNEARTHING ATLANTIS!; WHILE LADY OF AVENAL (a ghost in American South...white lady legends span the globe); MYSTERIOUS LEY LINES! (Ley lines are lines connecting British ancient sites at their simplest, but have been suggested to be much more. A recent book: Paul Deveraux's <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=087542189X/bu fosweirdworldA/">Shamanism and the Mystery Lines</A> ); MILLENIUM WATCH! Monday, September 8 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: Roswell UFO...no, not that one, a new one (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse <A HREF="http:// www.rysher.com/strangeun iverse/">Strange Universe</A> for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: Brenda Roberts produces. 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#7): HAUNTED HOLLYWOOD PART 1; TAROT READING; MARIAN VISIONS 10:05 AM, TBS, THE MYSTERIOUS MONSTERS (1975 movie, from the golden age of cheap weird documentaries...I think you can tape this get and get the Patterson bigfoot film, as I recall. Peter Graves narrates this, I think: must be Peter Graves Day) 6:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, WITCHES, WEREWOLVES, & VAMPIRES (narrated by the appropriately named Peter Graves) 9:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, WITCHES, WEREWOLVES, & VAMPIRES (narrated by the appropriately named Peter Graves) Tuesday, September 9 SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: magnetic healing (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 5:30 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#8): HAUNTED HOLLYWOOD PART 2; ASTROLOGY; KAMBUCHA MUSHROOM 10:01 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#8): HAUNTED HOLLYWOOD PART 2; ASTROLOGY; KAMBUCHA MUSHROOM 10:05 AM, TBS, THE BERMUDA TRIANGLE (I assume this is the 1970s documentary) 6:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, HAUNTINGS ACROSS AMERICA 9:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, HAUNTINGS ACROSS AMERICA Wednesday, September 10 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: Time travel...of course, it could be that this show is going to be on yesterday, or was it on tomorrow already? :) (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 5:30 AM, , THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#9): MAGIC ON WHEELS (blindfolded driving...I think I've passed this guy on the freeway); STARSTRUCK SPIRITS (more Hollywood haunts); MY FAVORITE PLEIDIAN (man with alien father) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#9): MAGIC ON WHEELS (blindfolded driving...I think I've passed this guy on the freeway); STARSTRUCK SPIRITS (more Hollywood haunts); MY FAVORITE PLEIDIAN (man with alien father) Thursday, September 11 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: UFO prophet(see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 5:30 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#10): NOSTRADAMUS (a couple of recent books: <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/ob idos/ISBN=0312136951/bufosweirdworldA/">Nostradamus : Prophecies Fulfilled and Predictions for the Millennium</A> and <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/o bidos/ISBN=0425156109/bufosweirdworldA/">Nostradamus : The Final Reckoning</A> ; UFO CONVENTION : INTERVIEW WITH A VAMPIRE 10:01 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#10): NOSTRADAMUS (a couple of recent books: <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/ob idos/ISBN=0312136951/bufosweirdworldA/">Nostradamus : Prophecies Fulfilled and Predictions for the Millennium</A> and <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/o bidos/ISBN=0425156109/bufosweirdworldA/">Nostradamus : The Final Reckoning</A> ; UFO CONVENTION : INTERVIEW WITH A VAMPIRE 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5070): New York UFO encounter (could this be the Linda case?); Homo Erectus skull; filming ghosts; psychics; predicting earthquakes 7:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: THE TWIN CONNECTION (psychic connection between twins?) 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD, STRANGE POWERS OF ANIMALS 10:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5070): New York UFO encounter (could this be the Linda case?); Homo Erectus skull; filming ghosts; psychics; predicting earthquakes 11:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: THE TWIN CONNECTION (psychic connection between twins?) Friday, September 12 LOCAL RADIO, 8:00 PM (Pacific Time) WGBB 1240 AM, New York: THE JOYCE KELLER SHOW: the host is a psychic who helps callers. Phone number is 516-955-1240 RADIO: ART BELL interviews James Van Praagh, author of <A HREF="http://www.am azon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0525942688/bufosweirdworldA/">Talking to Heaven : A Medium's Message of Life After Death</A> SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD, STRANGE POWERS OF ANIMALS 5:30 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#11): LIFE ON MARS; PSYCHIC DETECTIVE; THE DEVIL'S PLAYGROUND 10:01 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#11): LIFE ON MARS; PSYCHIC DETECTIVE; THE DEVIL'S PLAYGROUND 8:00 PM, FOX, UFOS: THE BEST EVIDENCE EVER CAUGHT ON TAPE This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before. _____________________________ **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. ______________________________ <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/weirdware/books.html">Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Books </A> I'm very excited about this! Some of you know, I ran a bookstore for years, and it has always been a love of mine. I get asked often to recommend books (I do write reviews for several publications) on these topics, and now I can do it and actually give you a source for them at the same time! This is being done in association with Amazon.com, which has an outstanding reputation for the five "S"s of internet shopping: selection, searchability, service, savings, and security. If there is any specific book you want (or topic in which you are interested), let me know and I will do the research and e-mail you a link you can use to check it out more (and order it if you want). I will be linking to books within the Media Alert, to make it more efficient for you. If you click on the link, you will be sent to that title on Amazon. You do =not= have to buy it at that point! You may, but the option is yours.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 22:25:56 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 00:59:06 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/5/97 9:06 AM: > Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 02:58:41 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman > I went websurfing to see if I could turn up any information on the Zeta > Reticuli star system and got an unexpected response. Rather than search > thru astronomy sites I thought I'd just punch "zeta reticuli" into the > search engine and see what came back... You should also have a look at http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/papers/zeta.htm which covers a debate on ZR and UFOs from Astronomy magazine in 1974. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art and writing mcashman@ix.netcom.com --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 6 Reconsidering Sputnik: Forty Years Since the From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:25:33 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 01:01:40 -0400 Subject: Reconsidering Sputnik: Forty Years Since the Ray Castillo Headquarters, Washington, DC September 5, 1997 (Phone: 202/358-4555) NOTE TO EDITORS: N97-64 RECONSIDERING SPUTNIK: FORTY YEARS SINCE THE SOVIET SATELLITE NASA's Office of Policy and Plans/History Office will co- sponsor a symposium on September 30 - October 1, 1997, to examine the impact of Sputnik. Speakers will include Sergei Khrushchev, a professor of international studies at Brown University and Nikita Khrushchev's son, and Eileen Galloway, one of the Congressional staff members involved in NASA's creation. On Oct. 4, 1957, the Soviet Union lofted the first artificial satellite, Sputnik 1, into Earth orbit. This 184-pound, basketball-sized sphere ushered in the era of the space race. At the height of the Cold War and several months into the International Geophysical Year, the Soviet Union had beaten the United States into space, a symbolically significant achievement. In the aftermath, the American public was greatly distressed, and the government created the National Aeronautics and Space Administration within a year. The symposium will be sponsored by the NASA Headquarters Office of Policy and Plans/History Office, the Smithsonian's National Air and Space Museum, the George Washington University Space Policy Institute, and the Kennan Institute for Advanced Russian Studies. Separate panels will address Soviet and American activities prior to Sputnik, the immediate ramifications of its launch in the United States and around the world, and some of the long-term consequences. The symposium will take place in the auditorium of the S. Dillon Ripley Center of the Smithsonian Institution at 1000 Jefferson Drive SW, Washington, DC, beginning at 9:00 am EDTeach morning. Attendance at the symposium is open to the public but seating is limited and early registration is strongly encouraged. There will be a $30 registration fee. Media representatives wishing to cover the proceedings can arrange to attend by calling Sandie Horton at 301/220-1701 ext. 23. For further information and updates on the symposium, please check the World Wide Web at http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/sputconf.htm. -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: Phoenix Lights Update From: AZGuy@webtv.net (Zogman @mindless.com) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 01:56:03 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 10:22:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Update [This List, as a rule, does not post anonymous, unsigned, or unvalidated messages - this one is an exception - ebk] Just to add to the "Flare Theory", I am in the US Army, and a previous resident of Phoenix. If the military is doing flare testing, it is highly unlikely (more like impossible) that they would be able to place flares in a V-Shaped pattern, with equal distances apart from each other, obtaing the same altitude, and managing to virtually "hover" without being affected by wind or gravity. The closest thing to this is a pyrotechnic known as a "Illuminating Star Cluster", which is hand launched from a small tube (approx 1 1/2" diam. and 12" long). This flare shoots approximately 200-300 meters high, then deploys a very bright white flare attached to a parachute. Depending on winds, the flare can burn up to 3-4 minutes before burning out, or hitting the ground. It is primarily used to "light up" the ground for night engagements. A series of these flares within a close proximity would create such a bright light, that anything, and everything within a 1/2 mile would look like day (you can clearly tell the difference between these flares and lights). Since this was not the case with the Phoenix sightings, it also does not fit the reports of "hovering lights", or the presence of the lights to move little or none for up to 30 minutes....... -~Zogman~-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: Statement from Ray Santilli From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 03:38:22 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 10:26:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Statement from Ray Santilli > Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 12:43:04 -0400 > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> > Subject: Statement from Ray Santilli > To: BlindCopyReceiver:; > I took them for a Chinese meal during which Reg asked if I > would provide film for the purposes of analysis as he wished to have the > results before his intended conference at Earls Court in London. Well, geez, I no longer have that transcript, but didn't Leir say that they were only given the film because they promised to give the test results to Ray Santilli only? Earl's Court was during the last Bank Holiday, I think. Did anyone on the list attend and were these results presented? In the interview Leir said that they had not even started testing yet and that was only a couple weeks ago. > I assume Reg passed the film onto Darrell which is fine by me. Since Ray is handing out film samples to anyone, do you think I could have one? Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman From: JJ Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.net> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 09:45:14 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 10:28:13 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman >Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 02:58:41 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman >I went websurfing to see if I could turn up any information on the Zeta >Reticuli star system and got an unexpected response. Rather than search >thru astronomy sites I thought I'd just punch "zeta reticuli" into the >search engine and see what came back. >From the Extra Solar Planets Encylopedia Star M[.sini] Semi-maj. Period Ecc. Inclin. Radius Jup. mass:(J) Axis (AU) years(y) (deg) (Earth Earth mass:(E) days(d) rad.) (note 1) zeta2 Ret 0.27(J) 0.14 18.9 (d) 0. - - 11 pc G1V V = 5.24 discovered by Cochran & Hatzes - announced 20 Sept 1996 This is a 0.27 Jupiter mass planet very close to the sun. Current techniques are not able to resolve earth mass planets. In a rather strange "about face", the above information was removed from the Extra Solar Planets Encyclopedia site after 4 days .. I e-mailed the site's webmaster and the official reason was that "the data may have been misinterpreted and there probably is no planet." Fortunately, I had saved the original version of the Encyclopedia with the Zeta 2 Reticuli information still present. This may be found at http://www.mufor.org/extrasol.html Some interesting _speculation_ about more planets within this system may be found at http://www.mufor.org/zeta2ret.html Regards, JJ Mercieca Malta UFO Research http://www.mufor.org/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 6 Zeta Notso Ridiculous [was: UFO Beliefs - Question From: wlmss@peg.apc.org [Lawrie Williams] Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 21:02:33 +1000 Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 10:33:38 -0400 Subject: Zeta Notso Ridiculous [was: UFO Beliefs - Question Zeta Notso Ridiculous ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > From updates@globalserve.net Fri Sep 5 14:33:46 1997 > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] >> >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman >> [Zeta l & Zeta 2 Reticuli] are the closest to each other pair of >> sunlike stars in the local neighborhood. Since they are estimated to >> be a billion or so years older than the sun, it seems reasonable >> that interstellar travel would begin earlier there than any other >> place in the local neighborhood. I have been trying to unravel human mytho-history, which has suffered from fragmentation and poor translation. There are indications that some form of civilization capable of interstallar travel developed on Earth with assistance from afar. The civilization might have been based around the people we now call Neandertals. Then there was a series of global catastrophes, part of the ongoing extinction event science is starting to recognize. It is likely to have been caused by supernova Vela. At least one nearby colony survived and it later rediscovered Earth, where an inferior neotonized life form (Cro Magnon - Homo sap. ) had perhaps survived the worst catastrophe of all when the planet was essentially scorched to a cinder. The Neandertals of old bear an uncanny resemblance to those giant hairy now-you-see-em-now-you-dont entities sometimes seen near ufo landing sites, variously known as Bigfoot, Saskwatch or Yowie/Yahweh. There are many potential habitats available out there to life forms sufficiently advanced to genetically engineer themselves to suit the situation. So we must beware of simplistic solutions. If the common claim that a hybrid race is being formed between us and them, then perhaps these "greys" are genetic adaptations of Homo sap or Homo neandertalis. Or perhaps Homo sap is himself derived from crossing Homo neandertalis with exotic homiinid descendants whom perhaps we might call Homo nephilis. As an interesting aside, the Pleiadies offers a particularly rich mix of extensive habitats because it is full of young stars formed from amidst the debris from an ancient supernova. Civilization would very likely thrive there if it is going to do well anywhere. And anyway, who says life needs a star to exist? There are other sources of warmth - chemical and radioactive and gravitational heat, for starters. > is there any evidence from astronomical observations that either > star has a planetary companion - the most obvious "clue" being the > kind of perturbation that led some to think Barnard's star had a > planet? Astronomical observations indicate that most stars have a family of planets. No reason why that system should be any different, although it is believed planets are less likely in a twin star system though I see no reason why worlds could not orbit the common centre of gravity of *both* stars. It would be interesting to know the apparent size of these stars from a hypothetical planet in that system, since many abductees describe visons of a pair of suns in a sky that is sometimes blue and more often orange. In one case a "moon" is described with blue seas and green continents, so continuing advances might reveal that thirty-some light years away there is a large low density planet with a moon that is massive enough to retain seas and an atmosphere. I disagree with the view that sheer age is a major determinating factor of the likelihood of civilization. The richness and volume of the habitat is probably much more important. If interstellar travel is indeed possible then a great variety of types must have been coming and going about the entire galaxy for a very long time. How would "aliens" reach our solar system from so far away? It recently struck me that in a number of ufo incidents a blue beam has been employed that apparently moves humanoids to and from the craft. In other cases hovering ufo's have been seen pointing a similar beam up into space, suggesting a greater range. Then at about the time of Chant's "meteorites" large beams were seen emanating from the moon. So perhaps these beams can have a range of light years. It is about a thousand years since the star Sirius at 10 light years turned from red back to white, indicating that debris between our sun and the dog star had at last cleared away. Perhaps even more recently the interstellar medium between our solar system and the Zeta reticuli system has cleared up enough to allow the "gods" of old to return to our solar system. Please excuse me if I generate any cognitive dissonance with this posting. This synthesis is not the product of idle fantasy but the result of many years of careful consideration. In <1OO lines I can do no more than provide a bare outline of the results of my work in this area. The retainer I am sure to be offered as a result of this posting will no doubt enable me to put all this and several dozen equally interesting concepts into book form. ; ) Sincere regards to ALL Lawrie Williams__________ Search for other documents from or mentioning: wlmss | 101653.2205 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 07:53:25 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 10:36:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli Greetings List, EBK, Bob, and Rebecca: As a preface to this "rant," let me state, to make it perfectly clear, that I consider the "autopsy film" to be a hoax, Ray Santilli to be a charlatan, and many of the characters that have been riding along on his coat tails in this time-wasting, UFOlogy-damaging fiasco to be either incredibly naive or incredibly perjurious. This is my steadfast OPINION. My reasons are manifold, and have been laid out so many times that I deem it unnecessary to get THAT thread rolling again. I would have loved for the "autopsy film" to have been real. In fact, when we began investigating it in the beginning, we were doing so in the hopes of producing concrete evidence in support of it. But the deeper that we, and MANY, MANY other very capable investigators dug, the shallower the story became. Let it suffice that I, along with my partner Bill Ralls, and in collaboration with Rebecca, WASTED a couple of years examining and researching as many facets of this "story" as we could, and I feel now that I would have done better spending that time on more productive and gratifying avenues of research. All leads went in circles, no concrete evidence was ever produced, and no proponent ever surfaced with credible (once examined) statements to the validity of the entire affair. It was an exercise in futility, and was, as Don Ecker has so eloquently called it, a "dog and pony show." I consider the ET hypothesis to be valid and worthy, but it distresses me that the product of hucksters and con men have so consistently been allowed to intermix with reputable work. With that said, I'm sure I'll get bombarded with personal e-mail deriding me for being a "debunker," as usual. (Eyes rolling.) Let it flow. No mail without substance will be answered, or even taken seriously, I will say up front. Now, to the point... >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:24:03 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:22:13 -0400 >Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 10:02:57 -0400 >Subject: Sims, Leir and Santilli BS> Anyway, my question in all of this is why couldn't Sims and BS> Leir just tell the simple and straight truth about how they BS> got the film instead of manufacturing this weird tale. By Greetings, Bob! You may remember me from our meeting at the 1996 Ozark UFO Conference in Arkansas. To jog your memory, I'm the rather round fellow that rode up from Texas in the RV with Bill Ralls and Jim Marrs. If I may, I would put forth the same question, as you relate above, to Ray! (wink) RS>How could we even determine who IS telling the truth: Ray or L&S? As has so often and resolutely been demonstrated, the quality of the messenger comes into play here, and in this particular case, it would seem that the answer might be: NONE OF THE ABOVE! BS> doing so, they have cast in doubt any results they might BS> later get from analysis of the film. And, I note that they BS> have yet to say just who it is who is doing this analysis, BS> and just what they hope to discover from analyzing copy film. But isn't this just a replay of a scenario that we have already seen, in regard to film testing? This whole thing leaves me with a feeling of deja vu, as the question of testing and validation was never adequately addressed from ANY resource. What is the difference between L&S and their jumping on this bandwagon, in relation to, for instance, Ray and yourself? Apparently the results, if there ever are any, will be basically the same. RS>Frankly Bob, I don't understand what L&S had hoped to RS>accomplish by having the film tested and giving the result RS>ONLY to Ray Santilli? It will accomplish nothing. It will prove nothing. It will, once again, just be a platform for "researchers" to spout from, while offering no valid evidential material. What the heck is wrong with this picture, folks? As a matter of fact, this isn't even a dog and pony show... Since it is a couple of "researchers" jumping on a wagon that has already demonstrated that it has square wheels and goes nowhere, instead of having the imagination to invent their own scenario, let's call it a "gnat and flea" show. RS>Did they do this just so they could RS>know the results themselves? Do they think they are doing RS>the UFO community any favors by analyzing the film and RS>presenting the results to Ray? What exactly is to be RS>accomplished by that? Rebecca, budette, you ask such poignant, direct questions! That's what I like about you. No BS, all content. You KNOW the answers to those questions, but you pull them out in the light for others to consider. Salut! Folks, why do we even give credence to the likes of those that muddy up Ufology's waters? Why do we waste valuable time giving airspace to characters that have, more than once, demonstrated that they have nothing credible to contribute to the field? Okay, I'm climbing down, the soap box is now clear and ready for anyone else that would care to ascend. "They talk in circles... The only way to believe is to listen in circles!" -- Quoting myself from the '96 Ozark Conference Glenn Joyner Dallas ******************************************** ** Visit : http://ufo-world.simplenet.com ** ** It's a SERIOUS look at UFO phenomena ** ******************************************** Search for other documents from or mentioning: infohead | xiannekei |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounter Prior to 1942 From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 10:50:42 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 23:45:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounter Prior to 1942 >Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 11:43:35 -0700 >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Aircraft/UFO Encounter Prior to 1942 Hi Jan... I have a video interview with a gentleman in Colorado by the name of Lloyd Arnold (now deceased) which was made back in the late 80's in which he describes a sighting of a derigible shaped object during the day, at a park. He said that there were many people who saw it, but they thought it was an early air ship. The date of the sighting was 1915. When the thing left, it moved out very quickly, thus he said he knew that it was not an airship of German or American manufacture. Could this have been the same type of airship which was seen over the South East part of the US in the late 1890's? It is something to give thought to. REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 11:00:36 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 09:36:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:58:05 +0200 >Subject: Re. Corso and 'Alien' Transistors >Steven Kaeser writes: >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >>Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 06:56:03 -0400 >>Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 09:58:05 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors >>As noted, there is a fairly good paper trail that follows the >>development (or at least the alleged development) of >semi-conductor >technology in the world. But the source recently >quoted indicated >that a significant date in the transistor's history >was late in 1947, >and this could have nothing to do with the >alleged actions of Corso in >1960-61 while assigned to the >Pentagon. >Corso writes that "the initial introduction of the integrated-circuit >chips from the Roswell crash had reached defense contractors as early >as 1947 in the weeks after the material reached Wright Field." But to >put his remark in perspective I'll give you the whole passage ("The Day >After Roswell" p. 177f): I have a source, which I cannot reveal at this time, which told me that the integrated-circuit technology was developed not from the Roswell Crash in 1947, but from a crash in 1942. That is all I can tell you at this time. I leave it up to the sleuths to check out this lead. Or, you can just trash it and continue argueing among yoursleves about Roswell. REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Statement from Ray Santilli From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 12:24:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 09:39:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Statement from Ray Santilli >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 03:38:22 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Statement from Ray Santilli >> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 12:43:04 -0400 >> From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >> Subject: Statement from Ray Santilli >> To: BlindCopyReceiver:; >> I took them for a Chinese meal during which Reg asked if I >> would provide film for the purposes of analysis as he wished to have the >> results before his intended conference at Earls Court in London. >Well, geez, I no longer have that transcript, but didn't Leir say that they >were only given the film because they promised to give the test results to >Ray Santilli only? >Earl's Court was during the last Bank Holiday, I think. Did anyone on the >list attend and were these results presented? In the interview Leir said that >they had not even started testing yet and that was only a couple weeks ago. Hey Guys, Not trying to 'derail' the thread, just utilizing an opportunity. As we say in NY, 'not for nothin' but Sims & Co haven't adequately explained the results of the testing done on the 'implants' that were retrieved TWO FREAKING YEARS AGO! They subjected some fifteen people to surgical proceedures, forgot them, forgot the public, and now have shifted the focus by getting themselves involved in the analysis of the AA film. Remember the Alamo! Let's not forget Pat P and all the other brave souls who volunteered to have these things removed and who have never recieved satisfactory answers. Ask Pat, he'll tell you about the 'quality' of an analysis performed by Sims & Co. Before everyone gets involved in this new AA film business I just wanted to remind everyone about the abductees, (that son-of-a bitch cut these people open to get what he was after) what they went thru, and the implants. I don't expect that anything (that _we'll_ ever know about) will come of this AA film analysis by Sims & Co. . John Velez, Abductee Union Rep. John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Corroboration of Healing From: wlmss@peg.apc.org [Lawrie Williams] Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 03:21:38 +1000 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 09:41:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Corroboration of Healing > Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:14:26 -0400 > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> > Subject: Corroboration of Corso??? > To: Errol Bruce-Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> > ....Now here's an interesting bit from him. He says that the "aliens" > who were involved had very advanced knowledge, and particularly of > healing. He said that someone with a cut or other injury would be > placed on a table and a device would be moved slowly over the wound and > it would disappear. Now here is what got me, he says that no healing > actually took place at all. That this device moved that part of the > person's body through time to before the injury took place! > Has anyone ever heard an idea like this before? Yes. A male child of 6 was befriended by a blonde entity about his own size at about the same time as a ufo sighting, a probable abduction and an encounter with a huge knight-like being. He taught the child how to play/fight with bowstaff, shields, swords and bow-and-arrow as well as teaching him herbal lore and a lot more besides. Unfortunately the child finally moved from the area and the contacts ceased. One day on the net I read an abductee account of complex hand gestures used by a "nordic" preparatory to healing. I do not have that file to hand at this time. However I asked the child contactee, by then 12, to show me hand gestures he had mentioned that his elven "imaginary friend" had employed. They were identical. This was only one of about 20 items in his detailed account which pointed towards his story being completely genuine and beyond rational explanation unless it was "for real". He also recounted to me how at one stage he had been holding his new bow and arrow and had accidentally let it fly loose while it was pointing downwards. (Entirely in character, alas!) The arrow ripped right through the top of his foot and into the ground beneath. From this and other incidents I get the impression that "Jason" did not want his companion returning home with injuries and being prevented from roaming freely in the forest. Here is the account in a form I polished for a book that I suppose will never happen, lest I be discredited for wanting to earn a living as a writer. <sigh> "Something really weird happened one day when we were off in the forest having archery practice. "I was loading the arrow and pointing it down like Jason had taught me. I glanced up at my target - a mark on a dead tree since we wouldn't dream of hurting a living tree - and my fingers slipped and I fired an arrow right into my foot! "I yelped because it hurt as it went through but then the pain stopped except if I moved my foot. It had come out the other side and gone several inches into the soft ground beneath. "I stood there staring at it. Jason looked directly into my eyes and said: "That was a clever thing to do." and knelt down and grabbed the butt of the arrow. "At the count of five I'll pull it out." I was kneeling by then, holding my heel. "We both counted. "One...two...three...four...five!" "I looked up at Jason. "Why didn't you pull it out?" "His eyes were close to mine. Suddenly he pulled the arrow out, straight up between us. It hurt, but not as much' as it would have if I'd been staring at it. I yelled "Ahh!" and went quiet. Jason wiped the blood off - on his shirt I think - and put it back in its sheath. "I looked down at the hole in my foot. There was a little bit of blood bleeding out. I held my foot up and I am sure I could see through it. Jason then put the little finger of his left hand into the wound and pulled it out slowly. "I could feel it changing my foot, it was becoming better, more and more normal. Then he pulled the finger right out and the foot looked normal except for a bit of blood on it. I wiped the blood off with my shirt. "I could walk on it perfectly. If anything it felt better than it had before. We then went on with the archery practice and I was definitely a lot more careful." For about 8 years afterwards he felt a pang of pain there when the foot was stressed. I thought it might even have been a mask memory for the positioning of an implant. But maybe it was exactly what it seemed. This incident has been mentioned several times on the net previously, btw. Kind regards, Lawrie Williams_____________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: American Computer - Update From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 18:15:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 09:42:16 -0400 Subject: Re: American Computer - Update Regarding... >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:24:38 +0200 >Subject: Re: American Computer - Update Stig wrote: >I need independent corroboration to be convinced of American >Computer's allegations, but to reach any conclusions we have to be >objective, and you are distorting the statements of the company. Stig, The company's claims are second-hand, ambiguous and open to interpretation. For example, it seems the claim being made is that in June of 1947, "Bell Labs diodes (germanium) were rather primitive current-wave polarity filtering devices", however, having somehow reverse-engineered alien technology within a few weeks of September 1947, this resulted in a major technological discovery. As the earliest transistor, revealed in late December 1947, used that same old germanium crystal as a medium, what then was the innovation? There are sources which should give a detailed historical background to the development of the transistor, although there's no obvious reason to doubt the overviews mentioned. Before we call the accepted history into question, we should perhaps have more justification than one of Col Corso's unsubstantiated claims. It's not as if many of them haven't factually been shown to be abject nonsense and others are an insult to intelligence. As for the new slant on the "Roswell landers", et al, we should maybe also ask for those claims to be substantiated in some way, any way, first of all. I don't however mind researching this subject area as it's of personal interest. Having searched a database of technical publications, I've requested copies of a number of articles indexed under "The History of the Transistor". Published in journals such as "Physics Today", these include, "A Semicentury of Semiconductors", "John Bardeen and the Point-contact Transistor" and "Recollections from the Early Years of Solid-State Physics", etc. I've requested some further related material and we can see what it all amounts to. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 17:06:25 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 09:46:30 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 11:42:21 > From: "usa.net" <phryman@usa.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > Hello All, > Time for one of the lurker's in the background to step out and give > his two cents worth. It is obvious from the amount of message traffic > that this issue has generated in the recent past (and the amount of > time that it has taken me to wade through all of those messages :>) > that many people on this list have widely diverse opinions on this > subject. And because of that, we could probably debate this from now > until the end of the world (aproximately 2008 or thereabouts, if you > choose to believe the Mayans :>) and still never resolve anything. > Therefore, I would like to make the following suggestion, so that we > can move onto other topics to fill up my mailbox with: Errol, could > you please make a policy decision in regards to witness anominity, and > ask everybody on the list to follow it. For instance, forbid any > further mention of Linda's real name on any posts to this list, and > delete any messages that do mention it. > That should settle the issue once and for all, at least as far as > this list is concerned. Personally, I think everybody should be > allowed to remain anomyous if they wish, especially if it is to > protect themselves and/or their famliy members. Hopefully we can > settle this issue now and move on. > Mike Modrow > (oops, used my real name, oh well, it's out now) Mike, The question reaches much deeper than this list. This is a discussion about witness anonymity in general, not just on the list. It also need not be specific to Linda Cortile. Regards, Scott K. Hale
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 All & Everything From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 19:18:38 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 09:47:32 -0400 Subject: All & Everything Dear List: Never criticize a fellow ufologist until you've walked a mile in his shoes. That way you'll have a head start -- and his shoes! SA Sasquatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 19:18:40 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 09:50:28 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity I agree with Jerome Clark that any witness who asks for anonymity should have it, although I'll probably be accused of hypocrisy by those who think I violated that precept myself by once mentioning Linda's real name in print. In Linda's case I can only plead special circumstances. Anonymity is like virginity, in that once you lose it you don't get it back. It was my call that that anonymity, in Linda's case, was lost before I arrived on the scene, a genie that could no longer be put back in the bottle. Subsequently, I accepted my public rebukes and personally vowed that her real name would never cross my keyboard again. That said, we shouldn't lose sight of the obverse side of the coin, which is that anonymity, _in and of itself,_ can hardly be construed as bestowing either validity and/or credibility to a particular case. Let me be blunt here. The fact that Linda requests anonymity has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the ultimate validity of her case. The problem we must all face is that Linda's case is _not_ your average abduction. If true, in fact, it is _the_ single most startling and sensational abduction of all time. It is a case which "accuses" a former Secretary General of the United Nations of also being abducted and subsequently interacting not only with the claimed abductee but with her son and family. Is it fair for you-know-who to be subjected to such "anonymous" claims? What if an anonymous someone had claimed that they had sex with with a certain former Secretary General of the United Nations? Wouldn't the public want (and deserve) to know who this someone was, and whether, in reality, they had ever been in a position (no pun intended) that would have actually brought them into intimate contact with the accused? As I previously pointed out -- to deafening silence -- it was all right when Perez de Cuellar's name was "leaked," because that made the Linda case all the more sensational. So who violated Perez de Cuellar's desire for anonymity? (Certainly not I.) For that matter, how do we even know that it really _was_ Perez de Cuellar who wishes not to be involved? The answer is that we don't. But I don't see Honey Bee (or anyone else) complaining about the fact that Perez de Cuellar's name is commonly (and publicly) associated with the case. Instead, when he denies any involvement, there's a chorus of chortling that says, "Well, hey, what did you expect a man of his position to say?" So here's my standard for anonymity. Put your name behind your claims, or don't make the claims. Ufology is already far too rife and riven with anonymous claims of every nature. In short, were you ever on a beach with a dead fish, a sand pail, shovel, Dan, Richard and Jose Perez de Cuellar simultaneously -- as a consequence of having been taken aboard a flying saucer -- or not? A simple signed affidavit will suffice. Dennis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: Ted Viens <drtedv@smart1.net> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 19:29:47 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 09:54:27 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com > Date: Fri, 05 Sep 97 12:02:50 cst > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > > >From: HONEYBE100@aol.com [Linda Cortile] > >Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 05:53:32 -0400 (EDT) > >Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 12:55:44 -0400 > >Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > > >Vince wrote: > > >>What Scott says about invasion of privacy to anonymous witnesses > >> > is true. > > >>But when people claim to have observed startling, even historic > >>anomalous events and expect others to believe them without > >>question, shouldn't these eyewitnesses have enough courage of > >>their convictions to allow the use of their real names? Isn't > >>anything less than hearsay? <snip> > >>Is there any difference between the primary players avoiding > >>publicity in this case and someone who witnesses a murder but > >>won't report it to the police because they "don't want to get > >>involved?" > >Vince: > >You must understand that I'm a wife and mother first. Every- > >thing else in my life is last. My first responsibility is not to > >the UFO communtiy. It's to my family. There is no way that I would > >compromise the safety and well being of my family, or anyone else > >for that matter, for the benefit of UFO research. <snip> > >understand why. If I held a position that any one of those three > >held, I wouldn't have come forward either. We had hoped that > >they would've discussed the event with Hopkins in the future as > >Richard and Dan said they would. However, they must have found > >out how disfunctional some of those within the UFO community > >are, and it drove them away. They must have seen what I was put > >through, as a good example of what might have happened to them > >had they come forward. I don't know. I can't speak for them. > Hi Linda, > While you have been extremely forthcoming (public speaking, > participating in this list, etc.), you have to admit that the three > alleged eyewitnesses to your event seem to be suffering from the > "insufferable wimpishness" to which I referred in my original post. > > Assuming that your case is true just as you've stated, the three > "eyewitnesses" would have to be utter wimps -- too timid and afraid > to not only confirm a socially and scientifically significant event -- > but leaving you twisting in the wind as, in the minds of many, the > mastermind of a collosal hoax. > I personally can't square their apparent indifference to confirming > your tale -- for the benefit of all humanity as well as for you > personally -- with their professed (as reported in "Witnessed") > affection for you. > How do you explain this? Do you acknowledge that the > "eyewitnesses"' > refusal to come forward casts doubt upon your claims? > >To you, if you can't have your own way, then witnesses who do not > >come forward publicly or release their real names, are either > underestimating the importance of the events they claim to have witnessed, > >or that they're insufferably wimpish - or else it's just a hoax. > >Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. But I don't. In fact, I'm glad > >that the three most important witnesses did not come forward. If > >they had, the quality of my family's life and mine would've been > >unbearable. The third man denied ever being involved with my case, > as was expected. He told us that he would deny it if his name ever > >became public, etc. Well, his name did become public. > How would confirmation of your account negatively impact your family's > situation? Wouldn't you rather have everybody know you were telling > > the truth all along? Wouldn't an unambiguous confirmation put the > abduction phenomenon front and center in the media and scientific > spotlight? Wouldn't that be a good thing? > > >No Vince, the aggravations and annoyances haven't been temporary. > >From what I hear and experienced, it'll probably go on for most of > > >our lives. But to tell you the truth, my family and I feel better > > >about it, after all these years. We don't particularly care about > >what others think. > > >Take my word for it, if you please. The quality of UFO research > by > >some, is good. As far as I'm concerned, if it weren't for the > handful > >of those researchers (maybe 4 or 5), UFO research wouldn't exist. > >So, when you tell someone like me or other witnesses to give up > their > >anonymity, safety and well being for the UFO community, expect one > > >of two things or both, to happen: > > Hasn't the opposite occurred? Have you been kidnapped by secret > agents > since your story became publicly known? Other than for being put > into > a position of defending your story, how have you been harmed by the > > publicity in your case? > > In a post to Roger Prokik (Sep 2), you wrote: > > >Are you saying that those of us and our families shouldn't only > >suffer the indignities of ridicule, but we should also stand in > the > >background (as I have for 8 years) and watch everyone else, but > us, > >(debunkers, researchers, skeptics, believers and journalists) > >make money on the misery of my family and I? Are you dealing > >with a full deck, Roger? > > Other than Budd Hopkins, who else has made money off your case? > > Regards, > > Vince Forgive me... If I could explain Vince's position here as some selfish social ignorance or conniving cultural naivety, I, of course, would ignore him. But, what is Vince asking here? Based on false predicates, he is asking Linda and others with experiences to come forward with no regard to the damage they may do to themselves. The first false predicate is the call to a moral obligation to benefit humanity by their testimony. The second false predicate is that a respected author cannot give anonymity to the subjects of his study. The third false predicate is equating silence about sightings with silence about murder. The fourth false predicate is that the conviction and corroboration of their stories would save the witnesses from public ridicule and personal damage. Vince wishes us to believe that a good person coming forward would benefit from his positions and be rewarded by their actions. Am I missing something here? What are we to conclude from these positions Vince takes? The most innocent conclusion would be that Vince believes these statements and only desires to bring good to the witnesses and our knowledge of this issue. Real experiences of others forces us to know that this is an ignorant position. Vince expresses himself intelligently enough to prevent me from thinking that he could be this stupid. Other apparent conclusions have a darker nature. In my view, Vince is attempting to bait and lure witnesses into public testimony so that he can see the damage it would do to them. Possibly, he feels a moral obligation to damage the open discussion of UFOs. Possibly, he seeks some cruel and selfish pleasure in contributing to the damage a person could suffer by coming public. I cannot speak for Vince. I can only discuss my views on his actions. Let us be honest about the damages a witness could suffer for giving public testimony. What kind of a working solution can we find for this problem? This can only be possible if we publicly credit some researchers with the honest and integrity to study and speak for anonymous witnesses. From this foundation, we could direct worried observers to these researchers with a believable promise that they would be shielded until they felt safe enough to come forward. We would all benefit from this way of doing things. Divine intervention will not create the public trust so necessary to allow more information to come forward. We can only create the authority needed for this by bringing forward and acknowledging the investigators we can trust. This is being explored in another thread here and I hope some results come from it. Are you a witness to something very strange? If you are, then you have a right to know that coming forward publicly can bring some harm to you and your family. If you wish to contribute your experiences to further our knowledge and understanding of these things, then it is completely fair for you to do so anonymously. Perhaps in reading this group you can get some feel for those investigators you can trust. Possibly, other threads here will begin to list those people who we feel you can trust. Come forward wisely and cautiously. Somehow, I feel that Vince's need to callously label you as "wimps" will prevent him from being one of your choices... Bye... Ted..
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: HONEYBE100@aol.com Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 21:50:59 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 09:57:56 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >From: rprokic@ibm.net (Roger Prokic) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >Date: Wed. 3 Sept 1997 11:58 -0600 Hi Errol & everyone! Roger Prokic wrote: >Look Linda, I wasn't trying to offend you. It's just the way I >feel about being anonymous. I didn't know how else to tell >my position without it upsetting you. I didn't mean to hurt >you in any way. It is only my opinion. And if I had gone >tthrough what you did, I wouldn't have gone public with the >story. I definately would have kept quiet. But that's me. >That's what's nice about each of us being different. We all >can react different to situations like this and we all have >our own opinions. >Sorry again, >Roger Roger: There's one thing that we do agree on. You're right to say that if you were me and had gone through what I did, you would not have gone public with the case. The fact remains that, I knew next to nothing about the UFO community before my case and I were brought public. The only part of the UFO community I was exposed to, was Hopkins' support group meetings at his residence. We were a group of about 20 - 25 people who met once, on a bi-monthly basis during 1989 to 1992. I hadn't been out of New York state in 20 years. I was, what some people would call, "a real green-horn," when it came to ufology and it's people. During the time my case was unfolding (1991) I thought it was being discussed only during support group meetings. In 1992, Hopkins decided to make it public at the Annual MUFON Conference in New Mexico. I'd wondered...why would anyone be interested (my case wasn't that much different from those who spoke about their experiences at the group meetings). So, I decided to go to New Mexico, in July, 1992, just to see what MUFON was and to watch Budd talk about my case. That evening, Hopkins made my case public. He called me on stage to say hello to everyone. I felt silly because I didn't know anyone and I thought that no one knew me. Much to my surprise, there were 1000 people in attendance! So, I went up on stage and said, "Hello, I know you don't know me, but my name is Linda!" Roger... everyone started to laugh! Then, they started to snap photo's of me. If you're old enough to remember, baby "King Kong," who was named, "Mighty Joe Young," well, that's who I felt like during my first public appearance. Then, the questions started. The people were very nice. I used the name Linda Cortile. I was even registered under that name at the hotel where the conference took place. But little did I know, what would be waiting for me when I came back to NYC city after the conference in New Mexico. Three guys named, Richard Butler, Joe Stefula and George Hanson had started a smear- ing campaign, which led to the harrassment of my family and me. My real name, address, phone number, photograph, etc., was re- leased to those within and outside of the UFO community. Letters were written to the Justice Dept. or some other agency and before I knew it, I was summoned to the U.S. Secret Service for an interview. These three characters managed to infiltrate my husbands place of employment, and the building complex management office of where I live. For some reason, these guys didn't want my case to go public. One of the guys, "Richard Butler," was a member of our support group. That's how my real name came out. Well anyway, to make a very long story, shorter, I'd have to say that, " I wouldn't have gone public if I knew what was going to happen afterwards." I just want you and others to understand what has happened here. Unknowingly, my case was discussed all over the world, long before it went public at the MUFON conference in New Mexico. That's why everyone laughed at me when I greeted them. They had already known who I was. Before the case went public, in 1992, I was told not to discuss my case with anyone outside of our support group. So, I assumed that no one else was discussing it anywhere else. It wasn't easy keeping it all inside for such a long time. It all happened so innocently. I didn't know what hit me. I wish I had known what the score was before my case went public. The world would be boring if we all thought alike and had the same opinions. I know that you didn't try to hurt me intentionally and I forgive you. As far as Vince Johnson is concerned and if he's reading this post, I've said about as much as I'm going to say to him. Take care and thank you, too, Roger, Linda Cortile
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Crop Circle in Marion, New York From: joel henry <jhenry@wavefront.com> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 21:09:48 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 10:00:23 -0400 Subject: Crop Circle in Marion, New York I recieved the following report of a recent crop circle-don't know if it has been reported on in this forum or not. If so please disregard. Joel Henry Minnesota MUFON To: jhenry@wavefront.com CC: Sandy Thomas <sat12@redsuspenders.com> Subject: crop circles September 6, 1997 Hi, I wanted to let you know that about August 13th a crop circle (the first that I know of ) was reported in Marion, New York. Marion is located about 20 miles due east of Rochester, New York. Actually it is the first one that I know of being reported in Western New York State. Larry Thomas, a well known expert on such things as crop circles) has investigated it. He is the most knowledge about this subject that I know. If you would like more infromation please contact me and I'll get you in touch with Larry. Charles Girard ***************************************************** Minnesota MUFON Webmaster Minnesota MUFON Web Page= http://www.wavefront.com/~jhenry/index.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 22:54:49 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 10:01:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention Regarding... >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 00:39:42 +0200 (MET DST) >Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention Henny wrote: >I have browsed the site of Lucent Technologies, the owner of Bell >Laboratories that invented the transistor. I went through the info >about the transistor, and especially its history. >Frankly, I am not impressed. Henny, It is, as noted, an overview. An impressive presentation though. <g> It seems there isn't anything on the WWW which goes into the background detail required, but that's perhaps to be expected, it's a vast historical arena. As just mentioned to Stig, there has been material on the history of the transistor published in a number of scientific journals and I'm sure we can find what we're looking for there, or at least references to older sources. The seminal work on the field is suggested to be Shockley's "Electrons and Holes in Semiconductors", which on page 35 notes, "An important discovery of Bardeen and Brattain was that, when the input point is biased for forward current flow, it become surrounded by an area of interaction; if the output point is placed within this area, the input current controls the output current in such a way that power gain results". This begins to set out the development of Shockley, Bardeen and Brattain's research, exactly what we were looking for. The original paper on the development of the transistor is apparently: J. Bardeen and W.H. Brattain, "Physical Principles Involved in Transistor Action", Phys. Rev. 75, 1208-1225 (1949). I should be able to obtain copies of both. >The invention of the transistor, one of the most important inventions >of this century, should surely be considered by a few writers as >material to write a book or two about that include all the above: >who, when exactly, where. The desire to make a breakthrough, the >request for funding, the forming of a team, the initial attempts, the >flukes and glitches, the deadlines, the opposition, the sweat, the >sleepless nights, and finally: success! I would like to see that story as well. From what I have seen so far though, it does seem to be a story of ongoing research and development into semiconductor materials, research which predated 1947 by some years and which ultimately found germanium to be a suitable medium. And in essence, really that simple. If we can establish that to our satisfaction, it might be time to ask others to produce evidence of equal genesis and provenance. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 03:05:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 10:05:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous >From: wlmss@peg.apc.org [Lawrie Williams] >Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 21:02:33 +1000 >To: ufo-l@mb.protree.com, updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Zeta Notso Ridiculous. >Zeta Notso Ridiculous >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> From updates@globalserve.net Fri Sep 5 14:33:46 1997 >> From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>> From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] >>> >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >>> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO Beliefs - Question for Stan Friedman >>> [Zeta l & Zeta 2 Reticuli] are the closest to each other pair of >>> sunlike stars in the local neighborhood. Since they are estimated to >>> be a billion or so years older than the sun, it seems reasonable >>> that interstellar travel would begin earlier there than any other >>> place in the local neighborhood. >I have been trying to unravel human mytho-history, which has suffered >from fragmentation and poor translation. Hi All, As a long time amateur astronomer I felt it my 'duty' to respond to (some) of this. I'm not going to touch the rest of it as it is beyond my ken. >Then there was a series of global catastrophes, part of the ongoing >extinction event science is starting to recognize. It is likely to >have been caused by supernova Vela. Not yet verified, and 'others' have equally plausible theories to explain the evidence of repeated 'extinctions' that the earth has experienced in it's four and-a-half billion year old history. The Vela supernova is just one of them. >>If the common claim that a hybrid race is being formed between us and >>them, then perhaps these "greys" are genetic adaptations of Homo sap or >>Homo neandertalis. Or perhaps Homo sap is himself derived from crossing >>Homo neandertalis with exotic homiinid descendants whom perhaps we >>might call Homo nephilis. I am of the belief that we are the result of a cross between really stubborn Himalayan jackasses and a human like creature known as homo idiotis. It resembled Archie Bunker only it had more hair. <G> >As an interesting aside, the Pleiadies offers a particularly rich >mix of extensive habitats because it is full of young stars formed >from amidst the debris from an ancient supernova. Civilization would >very likely thrive there if it is going to do well anywhere. We're talking about young stars in the full throes of birth. When one of those babies accumulates enough mass to ignite into a star it blows away its surrounding cocoon of gas (that gave it life) and bathes the surrounding space in deadly radiation. Not very habitable unless you happen to own a really good OSHA approved radiation suit, or a sun block lotion rated at 67,000. <G> >Astronomical observations indicate that most stars have a family of >planets. That, is information that is being gathered and analysed in a star by star method that will take many decades to compile. You are probably right although the 'fact' has yet to be proven. >No reason why that system should be any different, although >it is believed planets are less likely in a twin star system though >I see no reason why worlds could not orbit the common centre of >gravity of *both* stars. It's something called 'tidal forces.' A planet caught between two stars would be torn apart repeatedly by the gravitational forces of the two primaries. There may be some 'rare' instances where a planetary body has achieved a stable orbit around two (or as some computer models show) even three primaries. But it is doubtful, the conditions required are very complicated. The primaries would have to be of the right size, star class, and distance from each other in order for the right conditions to exist. In many of these binary systems where the proximity and relative sizes of the stars allow it, it has been noted that one star is literally devouring the matter of it's partner in a gravitational 'dance of death.' Again, these are environments where intense radiation/tidal forces would preclude any possibility of life or earth like planets. (As we know it) >It is about a thousand years since the star Sirius at 10 light years >turned from red back to white, indicating that debris between our >sun and the dog star had at last cleared away. Perhaps even more >recently the interstellar medium between our solar system and the >Zeta reticuli system has cleared up enough to allow the "gods" of >old to return to our solar system. The sun (and earth) have recently moved out of one of our galaxys spiral arms. In that sense you are correct in that we (our solar system) now occupy (are falling through) a _less dense_ (less gas and matter) part of space. >Please excuse me if I generate any cognitive dissonance with this >posting. This synthesis is not the product of idle fantasy but the >result of many years of careful consideration. It's a 'stretch' Lawrie, but then I don't know your sources. On top of which, I've been telling folks that I'm being abducted by aliens so who am I to judge another. <VBG> >The retainer I am sure to be offered as a result of this posting >will no doubt enable me to put all this and several dozen equally >interesting concepts into book form. ; ) Funny, interesting post. <G> John Velez John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli From: Karel Bagchus <karel@atmm.nl> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 12:26:41 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 10:15:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:24:03 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:22:13 -0400 >Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 10:02:57 -0400 >Subject: Sims, Leir and Santilli >Frankly Bob, I don't understand what L&S had hoped to >accomplish by having the film tested and giving the result >ONLY to Ray Santilli? Well, If the film is tested, and the results are made public, then it will probably be that the film is authentic. But if the results are not made public, I'll draw my own concusions from that. -------------------------====### KUFOR ###====--------------------- Karel's UFO Research Karel Bagchus E-mail: karel@worldonline.nl WWW: http://home.worldonline.nl/~karel/ufo/ ICQ: 303261
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 'The Mystery of the Flying Saucers Revealed' From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 08:31:11 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 10:21:19 -0400 Subject: 'The Mystery of the Flying Saucers Revealed' THE MYSTERY OF THE FLYING SAUCER REVEALED is the title, in English, of a book written in Indonesia in 1961 by Colonel J. Salatun, Secretary of the Indonesian Joint Chiefs of Staff. There was a forward written by Air Force Chief of Staff, Air Chief Marshall S. Suryadarma. The book is mentioned briefly in the UFO EVIDENCE. Loren Gross told me he has seen this book sometimes advertisted for sale by Arcturus Books. However, he was never able to get a copy as it was quickly bought by someone else. We would be interested in obtaining a copy of this book. Best regards, Jan Aldrich Project 1947
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 PUFORI UFO News 1 Part 1 From: "Anthony Chippendale" <ufos@chipp.clara.net> Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 15:12:17 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 10:23:55 -0400 Subject: PUFORI UFO News 1 Part 1 PUFORI UFO News... In Association with UFOs Online. Issue 1 Part 1 6th Spetmeber 1997 Contents ******** 1) Welcome 2) Welcome From PUFORI 3) Latest News 4) Space News 5) UFO Cover-Up Admitted 6) Arizona UFO Analysis 7) Gallop Poll Results 8) Web Sites To Visit 9) Coming Next Issue **************** 1) Welcome Hello and welcome to PUFORI UFO News. For those of you who do not know me my name is Anthony Chippendale and I am the Editor-in-Chief of this newsletter, the British Director of Picard UFO Research International (http://www.pufori.org/) and the Editor of UFOs Online (http://home.clara.net/chipp/). This newsletter is joint effort between PUFORI and UFOs Online. The President of PUFORI, Jeoren Wierda, is the Deputy Editor of this newsletter and his Editorial follows this. Every few weeks we will bring you the latest news from the UFO world as well as feature articles. If you have anything that you would like to see in PUFORI UFO News then please send it to pufori@chipp.clara.net With enough support, PUFORI UFO News should become a great newsletter. You are completely welcome to post this newsletter on web sites, discussion lists and on USENET. Anthony Chippendale, Editor-in-Chief. 2) Welcome From PUFORI Welcome all to this very first issue of PUFORI UFO News. We plan on delivering top news, articles and other interesting information to you mailbox every month. I now wish to tell something about what PUFORI does. PUFORI (Picard UFO Research International) was founded by me around September last year. I was driven by the fact that none of the organizations that I knew of were going anywhere in finding ultimate truth. My idea/vision of PUFORI is, and have always been to be an open medium, a public forum where everyone can share their knowledge and ideas on a wide veriataty of subjects, so not "just" for noted researchers. I strongly believe that the more people we get to seriously discuss the subject of UFOs, the better we can work on getting closer to the truth (whatever that may be). We are open minded and listen to all views, and that ofcourse includes views from skeptics. The ideas for this have been around for a very long time before I went on the internet. Numerous updates later we have grown out to a well visited organization with a high volume of uptodate news, articles, on-line books and Discussionboards. At this moment, our site consists of over 1500 pages and it's growing by the day. I would like to invite you all to take a look at what we have so far at "http://www.pufori.org/" Keep an eye out for PUFORI. We are planning on some exciting new sections and features to expand our, and your horizon. I might carefully add that some of these features will possibly shock the world when they are released. We are not finished...in fact we only just started! I hope you enjoy our first issue of PUFORI UFO News! In the forthcoming issues I will elaborate a bit on current news of interest, and anything else that comes into view. If you have any ideas, comments, or whatever it is that bugs your mind, just jot it down and send it to us. You will always get a response. Jeroen Wierda, President of Picard UFO Research International, Deputy Editor. E-Mail: MJ_1@ThePentagon.com Web Site: http://www.pufori.org/ 3) Latest News CIA Admits Cover-up In a CIA report it has emerged that in the past the USAF has given false explanations for UFO sightings, but the new explanation is... secret spy planes like the SR-71 Blackbird. See full article later in this newsletter. Next month we will be bringing you the first part of this report. Area 51 Penetrated Archeologist John Freeman, looking for a 19th Centruy inscription left by members of a lost wagon train, walked through US base Area 51 in the Nevada desert in April. Area 51 is a highly secret research base, rumoured to be the site of back-engineering on alien space craft. Area 51 is a highly dangerous place to penetrate, but he managed to dodge militray personnel and security. More news when we get it. 4) Space News Mir Repairs on Russian space station Mir are continuing. Two weeks ago cosmonauts carried out an internal EVA in the Spektr module and repaired broken cables. When Mir was launched in 1986 it was only designed to last for five years. Eleven years and hundreds of problems later Mir is still up there and in service, but at the end of next year Mir will be brought back to Earth and will crash into the Pacific Ocean. Construction of the International Space Station (ISL) is planned to start in Spring 1998 and should be fully operational by 2002. The two Russian Cosmonauts who recently returned from Mir are to be fined for causing damage to Mir. The Russian space agency has said that they were responsible for the crashing of an unmanned supply ship that crashed into Mir in June, damaged the Spektr module. Vasily Tsibliyev and Alexander Lazutkin have both denied responsibily for the crash. Mir-NASA chief coordinator said, "There is bo doubt about the conclusion that has been made." Pathfinder The Mars Pathfinder probe is continuing to provide NASA scientists with data about Mars. Pathfinder has suprised scientists in that it has lasted two months instead of the planned one week. For mission status reports, go to the PUFORI web site at: http://www.pufori.org/ Mars Global Surveyor On 11th September Mars Global Surveyor will arrive in orbit of Mars. For a whole year the probe will orbit the red planet mapping out the surface, including the much-debated Cydonia region where the so-called Mars Face is located. Voyager After twenty years NASA's Voyager Space probe is still going strong and will soon be leaving our solar system. Comet Debris Plans In April 2003 NASA will launch Deep Space 4 which will head for the Tempel 1 comet. In December 2005 Deep Space 4 will deploy a lander called Champollion which will land on the surface of the comet. After collecting samples the lander will return to the mother ship and the samples will be put into a capsule which will then be sent back to Earth for analysis. Continued in part 2...
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 PUFORI UFO News 1 Part 2 From: "Anthony Chippendale" <ufos@chipp.clara.net> Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 15:12:18 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 10:24:55 -0400 Subject: PUFORI UFO News 1 Part 2 PUFORI UFO News... In Association with UFOs Online. Issue 1 Part 2 6th Spetmeber 1997 5) UFO Cover-up Admitted WASHINGTON (AP) - With growing hysteria over alleged UFO sightings in the 1950s, the Air Force repeatedly concocted false cover stories to hide the fact that their super-secret spy planes had been spotted, an intelligence study says. Historian Gerald K. Haines writes that the Air Force, responding to alleged UFO sightings during the Cold War years, frequently provided explanations that were untrue to deflect attention away from the spy planes. ``Over half of all UFO reports from the late 1950s through the 1960s were accounted for by manned reconnaissance flights (namely the U-2) over the United States,'' Haines wrote in the spring issue of Studies of Intelligence, an unclassified CIA journal. Concern about the public finding out about the secret spy planes ``led the Air Force to make misleading and deceptive statements to the public in order to allay public fears and to protect an extraordinarily sensitive national security project,'' Haines wrote. ``While perhaps justified, this deception added fuel to the later conspiracy theories and the coverup controversy. Haines, a historian at the National Reconnaissance Office, based his article on a review of CIA documents from the late 1940s to 1990. He described how the Air Force sought to deflect attention from the development of its high-altitude experimental aircraft, the U-2 and the SR-71. The early U-2s were silver and reflected the sun's rays, especially at sunrise and sunset, and often appeared as fiery objects to people below, Haines said. The U-2s were later painted black. Air Force investigators ``aware of the secret U-2 flights tried to explain away such sightings by linking them to natural phenomena such as ice crystals and temperature inversions,'' Haines wrote. By 1956, the Air Force internally had clear explanations for 96 percent of all UFO sightings, Haines wrote, referring to the experimental aircraft. ``They were careful, however, not to reveal the true cause of the sighting to the public.'' He also said the CIA, during the height of the Cold War, hid its involvement in studies into UFO sightings because the agency was concerned if word came out it would lead to a national hysteria that could be exploited by the Soviet Union. The director of space policy at the Washington-based Federation of American Scientists, John E. Pike, said the study raises questions about other possible government coverups involving unidentified flying objects. ``The flying-saucer community is definitely onto something,'' in accusing the military of hiding something, Pike told The New York Times, which reported on the study in Sunday's edition. Haines' study, ``CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90,'' is available on the Internet at http://www.odci.gov/csi/studies/97unclas/ [NOTE: Above mentioned report will be serialised in PUFORI UFO News starting with the next issue.] 6) Arizona UFO Analysis By Andrew Brockinton and Terry Rodemerk MUFON Baywatch Newsletter At around 8:00 PM on March 13, 1997, lights were sighted in the sky over Phoenix, Arizona. There have been numerous reports written about the sighting and many theories bantered about as to what it was that moved over the night sky in Phoenix. Numerous people video taped the events and these tapes have been analyzed and re-analyzed in an attempt to explain the phenomena. Some of these analyses have lead to a chevron shaped vehicle, some alluded to being a much larger ship, and the government official explanation is that it was flares from the nearby Estralle Air National Guard bombing range which lies southwest of Phoenix on the southwest side of the Estralle Mountains. In our analysis, we utilized the video by Mike Krzyston taken from the top of Mt. Ridge and scanned in several still photographs using an Amiga 1200 AGA computer with DCTV video frame grabber and ImageFX software for photo analysis. Our analysis leads us to theorize that the MUFON article stating that they are flares is erroneous. From enlargements of the single lights, they do not appear to be flares. To verify this, we have a photo taken over Houston, Texas at night of a flare in the sky, and the two pictures do not look anything alike. In addition, from our analysis the lights in the Phoenix films appear to be maneuvering jets along the same lines as the nozzle jets of the liquid fuel rockets on the NASA's shuttles. Whether these are liquid fuel jets like the shuttle, ion propulsion or plasma propulsion, we cannot determine that at this time. Yet, looking at the pictures that show this, tends to lead us to believe they are a form of ion plasma, they trail off much like the aurora borealis does. Watching the film you can see that it is one large ship rotating on a center axis using maneuvering jets of some kind, possibly ion-plasma propulsion, to turn a larger ship that was in between the Estrella Mountains and the Phoenix South Mountains area in the southwest area of Phoenix. It may be that the only reason the people could see the lights at all, is that this was a course correction maneuver done by the craft's navigational system to fly between the South Mountains and the Estrella Mountain range. This places the craft on a direct line of flight to Casa Grande and then Tucson along US Interstate 10. Sightings of a large object were reported in both these locations within an hour after the Phoenix sightings and also by motorists along US Interstate 10. The analysis in the July 1997 MUFON JOURNAL places the so-called flares being behind the Estrella Mountains, which appears to be too far away to be the actual location. Analysis of other photos have shown the faint outlines of 4337 foot Montezuma Peak, the highest point in the Estrella range, behind the lights. This demonstrates the craft to be a good mile to mile and a half closer than their location under the military flares theory. If we place the craft on a Phoenix map, Montezuma Peak shows to be behind the lights in more than one of the pictures we scanned. Analysis of photos show that the lights move from lower right to upper left which is something that flares don't do. Also, it shows that these lights move in synchronous, clock-wise movement, something that the laws of physics would not allow a group of individual flares to do. This synchronous, clock-wise movement shows that the lights were connected to a single larger object being acted upon by a propulsion system, i.e. the lights seen. A more detailed presentation of our analysis will be given at the August 16th MUFON meeting, and we urge those of you who have conducted your own analysis to share your findings. 7) Gallop Poll Results According to a Gallop poll on UFOS, conducted between 3-6 September 1996, UFO interest continues to rise. The poll results were: 87% os Americans have read or heard about UFOs 12% have seen something they thought was a UFO 45% think UFOs have visited Earth in some form 48% believe UFOs are "something real" 31% believe they are just people's imagination 72% believe there is life of some form on other planets in the Universe 38% think there are people somewhat like ourselves living on other planets in the Universe 71% believe the US government knows more about UFOs than it is letting on. 8) Web Sites To Visit Every issue we will be giving you the adresses of the best UFO-related web sites. UFOMind: http://www.ufomind.com UFOs Online: http://home.clara.net/chipp/ UFO Magazine (UK) http://www.ufomag.co.uk UFO Magazine (USA) http://www.ufomagazine.com 9) Coming Next Issue In Issue two we will be bringing you all the latest UFO and space news. Next month will also see part 1 of the report "CIA's Role In The Study Of UFOs, 1947-1990". Available on 28th September. ############################################################################# To receive PUFORI UFO News by email, please go to: http://home.clara.net/chipp/news.html ############################################################################# WWW Site Addresses: PUFORI: http://www.pufori.org/ UFOs Online: http://home.clara.net/chipp/ PUFORI UFO News is (c) Picard UFO Research International, 1997. UFOs Online is (c) UFOs Online Publications, 1997.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 13:05:44 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 12:23:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors > Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 11:00:36 -0400 (EDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors > >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:58:05 +0200 > >Subject: Re. Corso and 'Alien' Transistors <Generous snip....> > >Corso writes that "the initial introduction of the integrated-circuit > >chips from the Roswell crash had reached defense contractors as early > >as 1947 in the weeks after the material reached Wright Field." But to > >put his remark in perspective I'll give you the whole passage ("The Day > >After Roswell" p. 177f): > I have a source, which I cannot reveal at this time, which told me > that the integrated-circuit technology was developed not from the > Roswell Crash in 1947, but from a crash in 1942. That is all I > can tell you at this time. > I leave it up to the sleuths to check out this lead. Or, you can > just trash it and continue argueing among yoursleves about Roswell. > REgards, Mike Hi Mike and List, What lead? You're going to have to give us a little more than that to go on. We're not a bunch of psychics.<G> And you are never going to stop this List from arguing about Roswell. Tis it's raison d'etre. You can still give out more information without comprimising your source. For instance "where" and "how" and even narrow focus the "when". What do you say Mike. Show us the money. After all, any one of us could throw something like that into the pot. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: nick@emailme.at.address.below (Nick Humphries) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 15:40:10 GMT Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 12:25:38 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >From: HONEYBE100@aol.com >Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 21:50:59 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >That evening, Hopkins made my case public. He called me on >stage to say hello to everyone. I felt silly because I didn't know >anyone and I thought that no one knew me. Much to my surprise, >there were 1000 people in attendance! So, I went up on stage and >said, "Hello, I know you don't know me, but my name is Linda!" >Roger... everyone started to laugh! Then, they started to snap >photo's of me. If you're old enough to remember, baby "King Kong," >who was named, "Mighty Joe Young," well, that's who I felt like >during my first public appearance. Then, the questions started. >The people were very nice. No offence, Linda, but it seems to me that it was Budd Hopkins that first "outed" you in public, and without your permission as well. Yet you still claim that it was the dastardly debunkers who did it. Which would you consider more serious: a photograph of you published and declared as being an abductee (so _anyone_, who knows you or otherwise, will now instantly recoginise who you are and what your claims are), or someone revealing your real surname (in which case only those that know you will make the connection)? I would say that the photograph would be more damaging, and Hopkins is to blame for that. The photographs came before the revelation of the surname, therefore I can only conclude that Hopkins was ultimately responsible for throwing you into the limelight. It appears that you'd rather blame it all on debunkers instead of the primary proponent - I wonder why? -------------------------------------------------------- Nick Humphries, nickh@the-den.clara.net, at your service If the Truth is Out There, what's In Here? -------------------------------------------------------- The Your Sinclair Rock'n'Roll Years http://www.the-den.clara.net/ys/cover.htm --------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 10:41:29 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 12:28:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 > Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 10:50:42 -0400 (EDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 > >Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 11:43:35 -0700 > >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 Hi Mike and all: Title should read....Encounters....sorry. > I have a video interview with a gentleman in Colorado by the name > of Lloyd Arnold (now deceased) which was made back in the late 80's > in which he describes a sighting of a derigible shaped object during > the day, at a park. He said that there were many people who saw > it, but they thought it was an early air ship. The date of the > sighting was 1915. > When the thing left, it moved out very quickly, thus he said he > knew that it was not an airship of German or American manufacture. > Could this have been the same type of airship which was seen over > the South East part of the US in the late 1890's? It is something > to give thought to. Memory does not serve too well here. When I was in Colorado, Barry Greenwood told me I should check a Colorado newspaper for a 1917 item. (He too had got the date from a video-- "Sightings" in this case.) I checked and found an article about lights being sighted outside of town at night. Greenwood told me that was very interesting, but not the correct story. I will try to dig it out and post it. Never did find the other article. As to the 1915 article, perhaps, we are thinking about two different things. I think "my" finding is different from your account. >From the 1880's on there are reports of strange airships. Dr. Thomas Bullard deals with these UFO waves in Jerry Clark's third volume of his encyclopedia. There were airship sightings in Russia and Poland in 1892-4, of course, the 1896-7 wave, and scattered sightings after until the next big world-wide wave in 1908-10. (BTW late 1909-10 were big in Kentucky and Tennessee.) Then, there were unusual sightings in 1912-15, especially the "Scareship" wave, (but there are indications that these were reported over a much wider area.) During the World War I era there were again reports from various locations. After that, everything seems to die down. There is not much activity reported through the 1920s and 1930s except the "ghost aeroplanes" in Scandinavia. Interestingly enough, there seems to be sightings of "ghost Zeppelins" or dirigibles in the 20s and 30s. Here is a summary of one: Feb (or early March) 1938; South of Arbuckle Texas; --- ; Hugh gray airship with girdle of windows and no under carriage. The windows reflected the setting sun. Without changing altitude or attitude it shot away sideways and disappeared. Letter to USAF 1952-06-18 in "LIFE magazine file." (Max File) After that the "foo-fighters" in World War II. Various sightings worldwide in 1946, especially the "ghost rockets." The Psycho-sociological theorists should have a field day with these reports. Best regards, Jan Aldrich Project 1947
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: PUFORI UFO News 1 Part 2 From: ASIUS <asius@mindless.com> [Mike Stahl] Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 01:43:14 +0930 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 13:18:48 -0400 Subject: Re: PUFORI UFO News 1 Part 2 G'day all! I have just spent a most frustrating time attempting to view the graphics attached to the report "The CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs - 1947-90 at: http://www.odci.gov/csi/97unclas/ufo.html When I say it was frustrating, that is something of an understatement. I was able to achieve the dizzying speed of 300 bps whilst attempting to view *.GIF images of approximately 600 kb in size! Has anyone any information on where I might find copies of the two *.GIF images elsewhere? The images I am after are of "Amateur photographs of alleged UFOs at: Passoria, New Jersey, 31 July 1952, and, Sheffield, England, 4 March 1962, and, Minneapolis, Minnesota, 20 October 1960. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated and direct responses are fine. Cheers All & thanks in advance. Mike Stahl, aka ASIUS. SAUFORI URL: (Please bear in mind that the site is under very heavy construction & is still in it's infancy). http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/3163/ "If you sit next to a pretty girl for an hour, it seems like a minute. If you sit on a red hot stove for a minute, it seems like an hour. That's Relativity!" Albert Einstein
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 12:38:06 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 13:20:25 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >From: HONEYBE100@aol.com >Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 21:50:59 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >Roger: >There's one thing that we do agree on. You're right to say >that if you were me and had gone through what I did, you >would not have gone public with the case. >The fact remains that, I knew next to nothing about the UFO >community before my case and I were brought public. The >only part of the UFO community I was exposed to, was Hopkins' >support group meetings at his residence. We were a group of >about 20 - 25 people who met once, on a bi-monthly basis during >1989 to 1992. I hadn't been out of New York state in 20 years. >I was, what some people would call, "a real green-horn," when it >came to ufology and it's people. > >During the time my case was unfolding (1991) I thought it was being >discussed only during support group meetings. In 1992, Hopkins >decided to make it public at the Annual MUFON Conference in >New Mexico. I'd wondered...why would anyone be interested (my >case wasn't that much different from those who spoke about their >experiences at the group meetings). So, I decided to go to New >Mexico, in July, 1992, just to see what MUFON was and to watch >Budd talk about my case. > >That evening, Hopkins made my case public. He called me on >stage to say hello to everyone. I felt silly because I didn't know >anyone and I thought that no one knew me. Much to my surprise, >there were 1000 people in attendance! So, I went up on stage and >said, "Hello, I know you don't know me, but my name is Linda!" >Roger... everyone started to laugh! Then, they started to snap >photo's of me. If you're old enough to remember, baby "King Kong," >who was named, "Mighty Joe Young," well, that's who I felt like >during my first public appearance. Then, the questions started. >The people were very nice. Hi Linda. I was one of those 1000 people who was at the Albequerque, NM. conference. I spoke to you in the Resturant, down stairs. It was at that MUFON Convention, that I first became accquainted with Jeff Sanyo as well. I feel for you. I realize that the mass of humanity, for the most part is nothing more that a group of bottom scavengers. They feel it is their duty to expose those who have different views or beliefs than they. They are such small minded individuals, who have no power of their own, so they mass togethere like an oozing cancer and absorbe everything they touch. Unfortunately, you happened to cross their slimy path. You have my sympathy. I don't know if your experiences are real or not. I didn't experience them. But, I do defend your right to think and express your belief about those experiences. After all, I thought this was the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, the home of the Brave and the Land of the Free. The place where individual, God given rights were guaranteed by the Consititution and the Preamble to the Constitution...as well as the Bill of Rights. Am I wrong? Do these things not matter in this country any longer? Peace be with you and your family Linda. REgards, Mike C.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Alfred's Odd Ode #178 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 12:04:23 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 13:51:03 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #178 Apology to MW #178 (For September 7, 1997) I come to the *skeptic* in attempt to get straight; No axe in mind to grind. I'm looking for some clarity For the inside of my mind. What I get is timid mind set, And a furrowed, hostile brow. Dismissal of good questions Is what they're into now. I ask, sans guile, "what of this *thing*"? You launch your explanation -- With your focus way too narrow, Heading off in mean directions! You herald what's convenient And supports your comfy view. Unmindful your assumptions Are just fine for your's and you. Your assumptions *confirm* a level field. The shoes we all wear, the same. Your assumptions affirm that it hinges on *character* Of those that you point at, and lay all your blame. But I hear you all out through the flow of your logic That is set up just right, for a few. Fallacy's rampant inside your encampment, Strawmen served up like a stew. You are friendly until disagreement -- When it still looks like I could be a convert! But then you turn mean, get pissed off and steamed, And start treating me like I'm a pervert. And the look on your face is just priceless; Like it is drawn from the pages of Dickens. This look can obtrude when conspiracy's used To explain why your plot clearly thickens. The sky's so filled with strangeness All you have to do is go outside and look, And see what's not been handled In your bibles and tired books. You don't see daggers at your throat 'Cause where you sit it's fine, But broach forbidden subjects And you'll think you've lost your mind. I can see the implication And I really should be quiet, But anomaly intrigues me and I really want to try it <g>. "Be careful what you wish for," the timid bunkies pule. They consider the erosion of their gains. They prop corrupt society up by keeping people stupid -- By fronting lying systems that pervert and cant our brains. If everybody did it _I_ could give up quite a bit -- Though my pay just tops the poor man's humble line. I had my plan in early so I could actualize my self, And I'd gladly give it up it meant end problems in our time! But EVERYBODY does it; I won't throw mine in a hole! I won't be giving mine to Benny Hinn. Pat can kiss my ass, with Jerry Falwell pushing past, 'Cause I'm knowing where the devil's really been! And that's where bunkies leave me. They provide no satisfaction. Content in sheltered whitebread, Contriving shadows to distract them. Lehmberg@snowhill.com A true skeptic dances in the moonlight with a feather in his/her ass as far as the true bunky is concerned. They couldn't BE more polarized. There is advancement in skepticism. Dogma is a return to the caves -- a smothering party line. _I_ am a skeptic! -- Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for being a true skeptic. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" Personal HARASSMENT; however, the harassment index is infinite for each of us. Consider the televangelists, or "psychic friends".
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 13:06:35 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 13:52:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors >Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 13:05:44 +0100 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors >> I have a source, which I cannot reveal at this time, which told me >> that the integrated-circuit technology was developed not from the >> Roswell Crash in 1947, but from a crash in 1942. That is all I >> can tell you at this time. >> I leave it up to the sleuths to check out this lead. Or, you can >> just trash it and continue argueing among yoursleves about Roswell. >> REgards, Mike >Hi Mike and List, >What lead? You're going to have to give us a little more than that to go >on. We're not a bunch of psychics.<G> And you are never going to stop >this List from arguing about Roswell. Tis it's raison d'etre. >You can still give out more information without comprimising your >source. For instance "where" and "how" and even narrow focus the "when". >What do you say Mike. Show us the money. After all, any one of us could >throw something like that into the pot. >Don Ledger Hi Don. Yes, I could give more info on what I posted. However, I keep reading all of the rebuttals on the list by the self appointed "experts," so I think for now I will refrain from giving any further data. These people seem to have all of the answers, so let them search it out. Nothing Persoal toward you Don, but I get so tired of all of the arguement and putdown on this list, that I really want to see if we do have anyone here who can take that small lead, and check it out, finding the event mentioned. It will occupy their time and possibly cut down on the negative traffic they post. Hey, I want to see this field come to closure. It never will, so long as "experts" are allowed to keep stiring the pot. What will eventually do so is when the "grass roots" investigators dig out the facts. We may not be a bunch of psychics, Don. But there are enterprising investigators, who have uncovered quite a bit of information in the past on "a lot less info" than I gave. So, for now, I will just keep it to myself. I want to see what effect this info has on the speculation about the "invention of the semi-conductor and integrated chip. REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 13:19:55 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 13:53:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 >Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 10:41:29 -0700 >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 >Hi Mike and all: > Title should read....Encounters....sorry. Ah, Jan...I don't care about title. <G> If I did, I would have signed my message to you...Sir Michael Christol, ESQ...<g> >> I have a video interview with a gentleman in Colorado by the name >> of Lloyd Arnold (now deceased) which was made back in the late 80's >> in which he describes a sighting of a derigible shaped object during >> the day, at a park. He said that there were many people who saw >> it, but they thought it was an early air ship. The date of the >> sighting was 1915. >> When the thing left, it moved out very quickly, thus he said he >> knew that it was not an airship of German or American manufacture. >> Could this have been the same type of airship which was seen over >> the South East part of the US in the late 1890's? It is something >> to give thought to. >Memory does not serve too well here. When I was in Colorado, >Barry Greenwood told me I should check a Colorado newspaper >for a 1917 item. (He too had got the date from a video-- >"Sightings" in this case.) >I checked and found an article about lights being sighted >outside of town at night. Greenwood told me that was very >interesting, but not the correct story. I will try to dig it >out and post it. Never did find the other article. >As to the 1915 article, perhaps, we are thinking about two >different things. I think "my" finding is different from >your account. Yes, it sounds so. There are two years difference and the one I am referring to is allegedly a day sighting. I don't recall the month being mentioned, but based on his story, I think it was in the late spring or early summer. I will review my video tape and see if I can offer more conclusive information. I will apprise you in a later message. >>From the 1880's on there are reports of strange airships. >Dr. Thomas Bullard deals with these UFO waves in Jerry Clark's >third volume of his encyclopedia. There were airship sightings >in Russia and Poland in 1892-4, of course, the 1896-7 wave, and >scattered sightings after until the next big world-wide wave in >1908-10. (BTW late 1909-10 were big in Kentucky and Tennessee.) >Then, there were unusual sightings in 1912-15, especially the >"Scareship" wave, (but there are indications that these were >reported over a much wider area.) During the World War I era >there were again reports from various locations. >After that, everything seems to die down. There is not much >activity reported through the 1920s and 1930s except the "ghost >aeroplanes" in Scandinavia. >Interestingly enough, there seems to be sightings of "ghost >Zeppelins" or dirigibles in the 20s and 30s. Here is a >summary of one: >Feb (or early March) 1938; South of Arbuckle Texas; --- ; >Hugh gray airship with girdle of windows and no under carriage. >The windows reflected the setting sun. Without changing >altitude or attitude it shot away sideways and disappeared. >Letter to USAF 1952-06-18 in "LIFE magazine file." (Max File) >After that the "foo-fighters" in World War II. Various >sightings worldwide in 1946, especially the "ghost rockets." >The Psycho-sociological theorists should have a field day with >these reports. >Best regards, >Jan Aldrich >Project 1947 Thanks for the Historical view. I will save it as a file and place it in my History file dir. Hang in there Jan....good work. Say Hi to Ed Stewart for me. REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Catalogue From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 12:27:13 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 13:59:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Catalogue I received some inquiries about this catalogue after my post. Dominique Weinstein's long running series on UFO sightings by aircrews, "Chronique des Reountres dans le Ciel," in the French journal, "Lumieres dans la Nuit" (LDLN) (BP3, 77123 Le Vaudoue, France) led to the Aircraft/UFO Encounters Catalogue in English as a means of exchanging information with other researchers concerned with pilot sightings. The catalogue which is not a finished product, but is updated and corrected several times a year is about up to the sixth revision. It currently contains about 880 cases in database format. The next catalogue should contain well over 1000 cases. Contributors are: Dr. Richard Haines, Barry Greenwood (CAUS), Loren Gross, Ed Stewart, Larry Hatch, Joel Mesnard (LDLN), Perry Petrakis (SOS OVNI), Victor Kean, Marco Orlandi, Richard Hall, Jean Jacques Velasco (SEPRA) and others. Weinstein has access to the large files of LDLN. Because research is ongoing, Weinstein is reluctant to make the catalogue available to the public. Also, a commercial venture would take away from his research time. However, Robert Girard of Arcturus Books presuaded Weinstein to bring a small supply of the latest "Aircraft/UFO Encounters Catalogue" and the more detailed study with documents, "Aircraft/UFO Encounters: French Cases" to the MUFON conference in Grand Rapids. Girald sold out both in about an hour. Girald continues to urge Weinstein to make these studies available to the public including the upcoming Radar-Visual Cases and Electromagnetic Effects Cases catalogues. Weinstein, of course, seeks others doing similar research. I would be happy to relay the names of those interested in obtaining his catalogues. Maybe a big enough demand will cause Girard to carry them. Jan Aldrich Project 1947
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 15:48:42 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 14:39:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 > Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 10:41:29 -0700 > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 > > Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 10:50:42 -0400 (EDT) > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 > Hi Mike and all: > Title should read....Encounters....sorry. > > I have a video interview with a gentleman in Colorado by the name > > of Lloyd Arnold (now deceased) which was made back in the late 80's > > in which he describes a sighting of a derigible shaped object during > > the day, at a park. He said that there were many people who saw > > it, but they thought it was an early air ship. The date of the > > sighting was 1915. > > When the thing left, it moved out very quickly, thus he said he > > knew that it was not an airship of German or American manufacture. > > Could this have been the same type of airship which was seen over > > the South East part of the US in the late 1890's? It is something > > to give thought to. > Memory does not serve too well here. When I was in Colorado, > Barry Greenwood told me I should check a Colorado newspaper > for a 1917 item. (He too had got the date from a video-- > "Sightings" in this case.) > I checked and found an article about lights being sighted > outside of town at night. Hello Mike, Jan and List A thought here. I might be wrong about airships and dirigables but during the years after 1903 and well afterwards, lights on airplanes was a luxury in expense and weight that could not be afforded. I'm almost certain that electric lights on airships of the periods mentioned from 1894 etc. up until the early 20s would have been forbidden due to the danger of spark induced explosions. Generators were spark prone and spark free switches were virtually unknown for battery operation. That left gas operated lights and I'm sure they would have been even more of a hazard on hydrogen filled airships. Aircraft on the other hand did not begin to employ lights until the mid twenties on commercial passenger carriers. Generators, voltage regulators and batteries on smaller aircraft were a weight penalty luxury not deemed necessary where engines were already overweight and underpowered and adding a generator would load those same engines down robbing badly needed horsepower. I mention the above as a way to possibly discount earth manufactured aircraft or airships as an explanation for some of the early sightings.No doubt there is someone out there who has the difinitive breakdown on the electrical technology of airships from 1894 onward and airplanes from 1903 onward. If they don't I'm gonna make it a mission on my own.<G> Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: PUFORI UFO News 1 Part 2 From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 16:00:27 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 14:40:07 -0400 Subject: Re: PUFORI UFO News 1 Part 2 > Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 01:43:14 +0930 > From: ASIUS <asius@mindless.com> [Mike Stahl] > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: PUFORI UFO News 1 Part 2 > G'day all! > I have just spent a most frustrating time attempting to view the > graphics attached to the report "The CIA's Role in the Study of > UFOs - 1947-90 at: > http://www.odci.gov/csi/97unclas/ufo.html Hi Mike, Are you sure about the above URL? I tried to bring it up and got a NOT FOUND. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 {80} part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 20:39:05 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 15:18:23 -0400 Subject: {80} part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network ______ _______ ____ ------ / / // ____// |---------------------------------------------- U K / / // ___/ / / ' September 5th, 1997 / / // / / / / N E T W O R K part 1 Issue 80 --- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------ The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with subscribers in over 40 countries. This issue comes in 3 parts. If any part is missing please mail: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject section e.g. Repost {80} part 1, part 2 or part 3 In this issue: Index ----- Stop Press ---------- Michael Lindermann & Stanton T. Friedman United Kingdom News ------------------- [UK 1] Aliens welcome - Britain's first parking lot for UFO's [UK 2] Erich von Daniken run over by a rain god [UK 3] How easy is it to make a mistake? An amusing story [UK 4] UFO leaves couple with 'horrible feeling' [UK 5] Report on Radio Wyvern - Spider Web lights [UK 6] Is the planet Mars inhabited? (written 1890) [UK 7] Chris Arnold and Bentwaters [UK 8] UFO sighting in Fife, Scotland World News ---------- [W 1] Navy Drone Debris Found In TWA 800 Wreckage [W 2] Join the alien hunt... [W 3] Sky News special report. Did we go to the moon? [W 4] Dan Sherman (a truly fascinating story) [W 5] Fox TV - Pheonix Arizona - March 1997 The Answers ----------- Landing a robotic vehicle on a comet A FEARFUL SYMMETRY by D. Lynne Bishop ------------------------------------- Part 3 Stop Press ---------- United Kingdom UFO Network are immensely honoured to announce that the following are to be very special guests on our UFO irc channel. Michael Lindermann: World respected ufologist. Editor of the excellent and very popular CNI News internet magazine. Resident UFO/ET commentator on the nationally syndicated radio program "Sightings On The Radio." Michael will be answering your questions live in a moderated meeting taking place in late September. Stanton T. Friedman: Nuclear Phyicist and UFO researcher. Original investigator of the Roswell incident. Author of UFO books and over 70 UFO papers. A highly respected investigator. Stanton will be answering your questions live in a moderated meeting taking place in early October. All dates are to be finally confirmed. Notification of dates, times and irc channel address will be made widely available through many internet sources. United Kingdom News ------------------- [UK 1]****** Source: Manchester Evening News Date: Thursday 16th August 1997 From: Adrian Donnelly <alien4596@geocities.com> Aliens welcome A new urban park in Manchester is just out of this world - it features Britain's first parking lot for UFO's. A landing pad made from ancient cobblestones has been laid at Hulme with some very special visitors in mind. Developers have even suggested that a giant arch at the gateway to the city will act as a traffic light to guide in alien space craft. The landing pad has been laid in Zion square at the 3 million pounds [sterling] inner city regeneration area of Hulme and Hulme Park. Passing aliens could not have a finer place to land, for the heat resistant granite cobbles come from the road which led to the old Rolls Royce factory on the site. Project director Barbara McLoughlin said: "If ET turns up, we'll make sure he's welcomed." The idea for a parking lot for UFO's came after a meeting between local families and architects over the development of the 15 acre park. University lecturer and local resident Dave Ellis revealed a study of key lines - thought to be centers of electromagnetic force and with strong sporotual significance - where he and other students of geomantics found they converged at the site entrance. A spokesman for Manchester City council said: "A new public square has been thoughtfully designed with extra terrestrials in mind. "The local community were keen to ensure Zion Square would be able to cope with an alien landing and the surface material is extremely resistant and is ideal. "We've used a highly durable granite recycled from the original Victorian cobblestones that were unearthed on the site." Ms McLoughlin added: "It may have started in a light hearted way, but the idea has caught the public imagination. Hulme is a very welcoming place - even for those from another world. "We're not stupid or crazy either, we're listening to what people in the community want." Architect Neil Swanson, 37 said: "We were happy to consult local people and there's no doubt that granite cobblestones would be among the best material to take intergalactic craft." Liberal Democrat counsellor Alison Firth said: "Im amazed and lost for words, I simply can't see the point of this." Work on the park has already started and more down to earth attractions include two football pitches, a promenade, themed gardens, a childrens park and a busking area. [UK 2]****** Source: The Sunday Times newspaper Date: 17th August 1997 Erich von Daniken run over by a rain god By Stuart Wavell A British academic team of alien-busters believes it has proved that the mysterious Nazca lines of geometrical shapes in Peru were not runways for extraterrestrial spaceships, as UFO zealots have long proclaimed. But the truth has turned out to be almost as bizarre. Ever since Erich von Daniken's bestseller Chariots of the Gods claimed in 1968 that the gigantic stylised markings on the Nazca plateau were a giant spaceport, the site has been imprinted on credulous minds as evidence of an interbreeding programme by extraterrestrials. In December, Dr Tony Spawforth, an archeologist from Newcastle University, led the first expedition to be allowed on to the Nazca lines for decades. The five team members, all world experts from different scientific disciplines, decided to crack the problem by the Sherlock Holmes method: eliminate the impossible and whatever remains must be the truth. They now believe the bewildering complexity of lines added up to a ritual rain-making machine of awesome dimensions. But for a while there remained a small, unexplained matter: burial chambers of people with extremely long, pointed heads. This apparent confirmation of von Daniken's theory of genetic hanky-panky was the last puzzle to be explained. The clues to the central mystery were hard to find among the thousands of straight lines, drawn over a 1,000-year period starting in the 4th century BC. Some formed trapezoids, or long triangles, almost seven miles in length, others were drawings of animals, including a pelican, a humming bird, a spider, a killer whale and a 300ft monkey. These images, undetected by pilots who first spotted the geometric lines in 1926, were revealed in the 1950s by Maria Reiche, a German mathematician who was until recently the site's self-appointed guardian. Spawforth said: "One of the great difficulties was that the area had been systematically pillaged over the centuries by tomb robbers looking for Inca gold. It was a lost civilisation with no writing, and their descendants were ravaged by European diseases after the Spanish conquest." The team first scrutinised von Daniken's theory. "We had to be fair. Just because it sounded improbable, we couldn't exclude it out of hand," Spawforth said. The first flaw was obvious: some "runways" ran up and down hills, ignoring the flat plain. Even if they had been blasted by spaceship exhausts, as von Daniken later claimed, it seemed illogical. In fact, the Nazca lines are quite shallow, delineated by the contrast between the exposed yellow desert soil and the surrounding brown surface stones. While poring over hundreds of aerial photographs, the team was arrested by one trapezoid containing neat piles of stones. "We were terribly excited, because here was absolute proof it was not a take-off track for a flying saucer, but was constructed, revealing the method of construction," Chris Mann said. Mann, producer of BBC 1's Ancient Voices series, convened the expedition for the programme Flightpath to the Gods on BBC 1 this Thursday. They found more evidence refuting UFOs: straight lines were not unique to Nazca, indeed they were a common feature in Peru and appeared to have some ritual significance. The expedition found half the answer among the surviving debris of Nazca culture. The ancients were shamanistic: pottery images of vomiting figures recalled the hallucinogenic trances of jungle medicine men, who enter the world of the spirits in dream "flights" to combat illness. So Piers Vitebsky, an authority on shamanism from the Scott Polar Institute in Cambridge, set off into the Peruvian rainforest to interview an Amerindian shaman. To the team's astonishment, the latter instantly recognised the Nazca drawings as animal "helpers", each valued for its characteristics. The shaman's "flights" explained the psychedelic design of the Nazca figures, intended to be seen from the sky. The religious significance of the lines was confirmed when David Browne, an archeologist from the University of Wales, Aberystwyth, and an expert on a nearby Nazca temple, noticed that the building was an integral part of a trapezoid design. "That was our break-through," Spawforth recalled. But what was the compelling motive that had led to the construction of the world's largest works of art? The answer was staring them in the face - drought. "The area is totally dependent on seasonal rainwater draining from the Andes," said Spawforth. "It is estimated there have been no significant rainfalls on the plain since the last Ice Age." Many lines pointed to the Andes, the Nazca plain's source of water. All the pieces began to build up a picture of Nazca desperation. Analysis of mountain ice showed a 40-year drought. Pottery recorded warfare and the taking of severed heads, which were offered as sacrifices to the rain gods. "The Nazca lines appear to be a vast two-dimensional temple to the mountain gods who controlled the flow of water to this parched area. The Nazcas made bigger and bigger trapezoids to beg the gods to send rain," said Spawforth. The lines were not runways but walkways, along which priests would process "like a vast sacred conga". And their pointed heads? The team learnt that the habit of binding infants' skulls between planks had been widespread in South America. But nobody knows why. [UK 3]****** From: uk.ufo.nw Dave Date: August 1997 How easy is it to make a mistake? An amusing story During August of this year an amusing yet non-the-less important incident happened to me. One sunny morning my wife returned home from shopping. As I was helping her to unload the car I noticed an aircraft flying over. It was at a very high altitude and moving quite fast. Living where I do in Birmingham (UK) it is not unusual to see high altitude domestic aircraft using these airways. However this one seemed particularly high. I rushed into the house and returned with my binoculars only to find that the aircraft had gone. There was one solitary fluffy cloud in the sky. I focused the binoculars on it and was amazed to see a white ball of light moving across the cloud. I observed it for about three seconds and I can honestly tell you my blood ran cold. I moved the binoculars away but was unable to see it with the naked eye. I tried again with the binoculars but it had gone. I said to my wife: "you are not going to believe what I have just seen." I was left alone outside for a few minutes. My mind was in turmoil as to what to do next. This had never happened to me before. As I stood there contemplating things I noticed a dandelion otherwise lovingly known as a 'fairy' being gently blown through the air by the wind. It was approximately 40 feet away. I looked at it through the binoculars. It was then that reality suddenly struck me. My UFO had infact been a dandelion blown along by the wind. As I had looked at the cloud the dandelion had flown into my field of view. As it was very close to me it was of course out of focus against the sky, giving the edges a blurred smooth appearance. No wonder I couldn't see it when I looked at the cloud with my naked eye. So my first UFO sighting was infact identified as a 'fairy' ;-) It just goes to show how easy it is to make an honest mistake. How many times has this happened to people all over the world? Do you have a short amusing sightings story to tell. It may have happened to you or someone else. Send them into us and we will publish the best. Please (as usual) let us know if you wish to remain anonymous. Send your stories to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk Subject heading: An amusing story [UK 4]****** From: Steve Yarwood Source: Unknown UK newspaper (scanned report) Date: August 1997 UFO leaves couple with 'horrible feeling'... ..after a UFO experience on the road from Hope Cove to Galmpton at 10. 30 last Thursday evening. The husband and wife, who have asked for their names not to be revealed for fear of being considered cranks, were walking up the road towards Galmpton after playing a game of bowls at Galmpton Village Hall. They were about 300 yards from their home when from the Bolberry Down direction on their right flashed a tea plate size white object. It came to a sudden stop in their path and instantly switched off. The woman gave her description: "it came to us at such speed. It was like a shooting star, only much closer to earth. There were no flashing lights or anything like that, just a simple white disk." "When the object stopped in front of us it was as if a light went out. It was a strange, strange feeling, like we were still being watched. "I didn't say anything because I thought it might just be me who saw it, but then my husband shouted "what the heck was that?" "I think he was more affected by it than me. He can't stop talking about it. "It has left us both with a horrible feeling, especially as we are beginning to think we were the only people who saw it." She reckoned the whole incident lasted only about a second. [UK 5]****** From: uk.ufo.nw Dave Spider Web lights A colleague who lives over Pershore, Eversham way told me that the weekend of 9th and 10 August this year there were reports on Radio Wyvern and local papers of spider web? type lights seen in the sky. The local police said that they'd had quite a few reports of the sighting. They contacted the MoD (Ministry Of Defence) who said that there were no aircraft in the area at that time. Do any of our readers have further information on this sighting? If so please send it in. [UK 6]****** From: "Phil Light" <phil.light@ukonline.co.uk> Source: The following articles are taken from 'Curiosities of Science' by John Timbs, 7th Edition. Published by Crosby Lockwood and Son MDCCCXC (1890) Cost: 2 shillings 6d IS THE PLANET MARS INHABITED? The opponents of the doctrine of the Plurality of Worlds allow that a greater probability exists of Mars being inhabited than in the case of any other planet. His diameter is 4100 miles; and his surface exhibits spots of different hues, -- the seas, according to Sir John Herschel, being green, and the land red. "The variety of the spots," says this astronomer, "may arise from the planet not being destitute of atmosphere and cloud; and what adds greatly to the probability of this, is the appearance of brilliant white spots at its poles, which have been conjected, with some probability, to be snow, as they disappear when they have been long exposed to the sun, and are greatest when emerging from the long night of their polar winter, the snow-line then extending to about six degrees from the pole." "The length of the day," says Sir David Brewster, "is almost exactly twenty-four hours, -- the same as that on the earth. Continents and oceans and green savannahs have been observed upon Mars, and the snow of his polar regions has been seen to disappear with the heat of summer." We actually see the clouds floating in the atmosphere of Mars, and there is the appearance of land and water on his disc. In a sketch of this planet, as seen in the pure atmosphere of Calcutta by Mr. Grant, it appears, to use his words, "actually as a little world," and as the earth would appear at a distance with its seas and continents of different shades. As the diameter of Mars is only about one half that of our half, the weight of bodies will be about one half what it would be if they were placed upon our globe. FOR WHAT PURPOSE WERE THE STARS CREATED? Surely now (says Sir John Herschel) to illuminate our night, which an additional moon of the thousandth part of the size of our own world would do much better; nor to sparkle as a pageant void of meaning and reality, and bewilder us among vain conjectures. Useful, it is true, they are to man as points of exact and permanent reference; but he must have studied astronomy to little purpose, who can suppose man to be the only object of his Creator's care, or who does not see in the vast and wonderful apparatus around us provision for other races of animated being. The planets derive their light from the sun; but that cannot be the case with the stars. These doubtless, then, are themselves suns; and may perhaps, each in its sphere, be the presiding centre round which other planets, or bodies of which we can form no conception from any analogy offered by our own system, are circulating.* *This eloquent advocacy of the doctrine of "More Worlds than One" (referred to at p. 56) is from the author's valuable Outlines of Astronomy. [UK 7]****** From: crow@crowman.demon.co.uk (Raine & Crow) Date: Saturday 12th July 1997 Chris Arnold and Bentwaters uk.ufo.nw says: We believe that Chris Arnold (below) wrote to Raine & Crow (uk.ufo.nw staff members) after reading a Bentwaters report on their home page. Chris Arnolds letters has now been placed into the hands of Michael Lindermann of CNI News for further investigation. We ask that if anyone out there has any information on Chris Arnold and/or his involvement with the Bentwaters case please mail us at the usual address: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk Chris Arnold's e-mail address currently withheld. --- Date: Sun, 06 Jul 97 Howdy, Just wanted to say that as a participant in the alleged RAF Woodbridge UFO incident in 1980, I just wanted to advise you that you've been well and truly snookered by Halt and his buddies. They have no clue. Chris Armold --- Hi Chris, Are you telling me that you were actually a participant in the alleged RAF Woodbridge UFO incident in 1980? What did you participate in? I have had quite a few people email me and claim this, but as yet none have come up with any evidence that would substantiate their claims. Would you please tell me why I have been well and truly snookered by Halt and his buddies, I wonder if you will claim Warren was not there at that time? I would be very interested indeed to hear your evidence and look forward to some real info from you. All the very best..Crow & Raine -[continued in part 2]-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 {80} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 20:39:43 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 15:31:38 -0400 Subject: {80} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network ______ _______ ____ ------ / / // ____// |---------------------------------------------- U K / / // ___/ / / ' September 5th, 1997 / / // / / / / N E T W O R K part 2 Issue 80 --- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------ The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with subscribers in over 40 countries. This issue comes in 2 parts. If any part is missing please mail: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject section e.g. Repost {80} part 1, part 2 or part 3. [cont...] Hi Chris, Are you telling me that you were actually a participant in the alleged RAF Woodbridge UFO incident in 1980? What did you participate in? I have had quite a few people email me and claim this, but as yet none have come up with any evidence that would substantiate their claims. Would you please tell me why I have been well and truly snookered by Halt and his buddies, I wonder if you will claim Warren was not there at that time? I would be very interested indeed to hear your evidence and look forward to some real info from you. All the very best..Crow & Raine --- To: <crow@crowman.demon.co.uk> Subject: RAF Woodbridge From: Chris Armold Date: Fri, 11 Jul 97 Howdy, It's very strange that someone would ask me for evidence of my participation in this non-event when no one seems compeled to require Burroughs, Halt and whoever else to substantiate their fantastic storys. In any case here is some information regarding that wonderful goat rope outside the RAF Woodbridge East Gate that December morning. I was a member of the 81st Security Police Squadron on "B" Flight Law Enforcement. If I remember correctly (and you must forgive me for some memory lapse as you must realize that at the time this was not a significant event, consequently it really hasn't been burned into my mind, obviously had I seen flying saucers, and little green men I doubt I would have any problems retaining the information) those of us working were having some fun as we actually were playing music over one of the Police Frequencies. It was very quiet and since it was the holiday season, not much was happening. Things were pretty laid back. In any case, we were playing Music on the Security Frequency and the Law Enforcement freq was being used in case someone had an emergency or actual work related transmission to make. After midnight, John Burroughs radioed the LE desk and reported he had seen strange lights in the outside the East Gate on RAF Woodbridge. I was actually on RAF Lakenheath hanging out at the Law Enforcement Desk at the time. Burroughs, who liked to draw attention to himself, often over-reacted to situations and was considered very unreliable, wanted to know if there were any reports of downed aircraft. We called the Control Tower and I even called the local Constabulary (I can't remember the town the constabulary was in , but I do know it was outside of Ipswich and I think it used to be an air base during WWII, I believe the control tower was restored in the 80's) In any case, after getting a negative reply from the British Cops, My flight chief asked me if I wanted to head out to Woodbridge to meet up with Burroughs and see what was up. I grabbed the back gate keys, and took the back way to RAF W/B. I met Burroughs at the East Gate of WB. We left our guns with the guy riding with Burroughs and drove to the end of the long access road. We left our vehicle and walked out there. There was absolutely nothing in the woods. We could see lights in the distance and it appeared unusual as it was a sweeping light, (we did not know about the lighthouse on the coast at the time). We also saw some strange colored lights in the distance but were unable to determine what they were. Eventually we found three depressions in the ground, about the diameter of a coffee can in a triangular pattern. However, there was no damage to trees or scorch marks, or any damage to any plant life in the area. We noted the location of the impressions and departed the area. Burroughs and his partner went back to patroling RAF WB and I returned to RAF BW. I reported what I saw to my flight chief. In the morning several of us were asked if we would return to the area to point out the depressions to some folks who I believe were from environmental health. They did have some type of instrument for detecting radiation and I believe they did detect some measure of radiation, however I don't think it was a significant amount. During the trip to the woods, Lt Col Halt, the deputy base commander (who's radio call sign was "Stopper") showed up. He was intregued by the report. Now you must understand that we had a very interesting relationship with Col Halt. You see he really enjoyed hanging out with the Law Enforcement troops. He found our job interesting and I think he had fun. He would routinely stop by the office on swing and midnight shifts on Friday and Saturday nights and ride with patrols. I would say he rode with me 10 or 12 times during my time at RAF BW. I considered him a very friendly, relaxed individual and very down to earth for an officer. Halt essentially said he planned on coming out to the site in the evening and one way or another several of us said we'd keep him company. The guys I remember were John Burroughs, Adrian Bustamante, and me. I think another officer joined Halt, I believe it was Lt Bruce England, but I'm not absolutely certain and maybe two other guys (Possibly one named Pennington, just can't remember for sure) There was however, no army of USAF guys out in the woods.. No fleet of vehicles, no towed light rigs, just a half-dozen or so of us stomping around goofing off. I brought a camera with me and I think Halt had a tape recorder. We were out there for hours and someone noticed some lights in the distance. While they often seemed to be very close in reality as we tried to approach them we discovered they were very far away. Now don't confuse what Ijust wrote. Little balls of light were not flying around us or getting closer and flying away. We initially thought the lights were closer than they actually were. In the end I would say we were in the woods for 4 or 5 hours. The next morning we went home and "B" flight went on break (our three days off). Three days later we returned to work and made fun of Burroughs for screwing up our radio fun with his bogus UFO sighting. There were no secret debriefings, no threats, no sudden assignments. Nothing. It was no big deal. One of the things that is so amusing about this issue is that I didn't leave RAF Lakenheath for another 6 or 7 months. You know, after a few days, this entire issue was forgotten. It just was not an issue. When I departed England, I was sent to Grissom AFB Indiana. John Burroughs stated on some TV show in the states that after the incident he suddenly and unexpectedly received transfer orders to Korea, apparently to keep him quiet. Bullshit. John Burroughs departed right on time (we had two year assignments to England) and guess where he went: Yep, Grissom AFB Indiana. I had to spend another tour of duty with that idiot. Ok, so now John and I are in Indiana together. We don't know anyone but each other, so we hung out for a few months until we got to know other people. Guess what. He never spoke of seeing a flying saucer, or encountering aliens. He never mentioned the incident again. Obviously something one wouldn't likely forget had he actually seen or encountered such phenomenons. Nope, John and I really never spoke of the UFO thing at WB because we didn't consider it to be anything except some unusual lights. John and I spent two years together in Indiana. He later became a K-9 handler and eventually left the active AF for the guard or reserves and I think he ended up in Nevada. As in England, his tour in Indiana impressed no one. Burroughs was unreliable and very self-serving. He always tried to do what was best for "John." The next time I heard of the UFO thing was when I returned to England in 1984. I had an assignment to RAF Lakenheath and two days after I arrived I saw a story on the news (on TV) about this book called "Sky Crash" about the alleged UFO Incident at RAF WB. I was absolutely amazed that anyone would have cared about this non-incident. I found a copy of the book and was absolutely blown away by the rubbish and inaccuracies which filled the pages. Let me say categorically that there were no space ships, no flying saucers, no little green men, no encounters with aliens, nothing of the sort. Sadly many UFO enthusiasts seem to have focused more on what they would sorely love to hear rather than what actually happened. Unfortunitaly John Burroughs and Col Halt seemed to have recognized that and took these "believers" for a ride. In any case, I seriously doubt that what I tell you will have any effect on the history of the incident. Burroughs, Halt, Warren who ever he is, ( I have to admit I don't remember the name Larry Warren at all? Is he using a fabricated name to conceal his identity? If not I have to admit I honestly have no recollection of the guy. However, if we had shared a real UFO encounter I'm sure I would be able to recollect each second of the incident in excrutiating detail.) have only their collective hazy memories and conflicting accounts to rest on. Ask them why they never mentioned me? Ask them why they never talked about it after they left RAF BW? Ask them how much money they have made from articles, TV, and talk shows (or whatever schemes they were able to devise to take advantage of this incident.) I could go on and on, but you know what, no one cares about reality. In any case, that's my small part in this UFO story. Take care. Chris Arnold [UK 8]****** From: DLedger001@aol.com Date: Sunday 17 August 1997 UFO sighting in Fife, Scotland Saturday 16 August 1997 12:45 a.m to 1:30 a.m GMT Firstly we would like to admit first hand, that we are classed as working class people, and to certain individual opinions this may discredit our statements right away, but we hope there are people out there who will believe us,and understand we are perfectly intelligent and sane pe ople. On the morning of Saturday 16th August at around 12:45am, myself and my partner decided to let the dogs out onto the back garden, and also to observe an object in the sky, that we have continuously encountered over the last three week period, my partner believes it to be a planet (pe rhaps Venus), and appears like a very large bright star, that seems to dis appear before dawn. However on this particular night, we noticed that the sky was dense and extremely clear, with only thin hazy patches of cloud here and the re. Just as my parner looked up at the sky to our left over our shoulders, we spotted what appeared to be just another star in the sky, until it beg an to move. We live in a three storey block of flats, and we could see this starlike object move away from the rooftops of the flats towards the south and most probably over the River Forth somewhere, it seemed to cut through the sky with great ease, almost like it was gliding, but was actually going exceptionally fast, it must have been to cover the ground it covered in such a short space of time, it travelled three quarters of the sky in approximately 30 seconds, when it came to a sudden halt and just remained there stationary. At this point i decided to go for more people to wi tness what we were experiencing. On my return with three other witnesses, I discovered my partner had gone to our next door neighbour, so he and his teenage son had come to investigate, swearing my partner was mad. Just as the group of seven at this point, congregated in one huddle, what appeared to be at first, a shooting star, projecting rapidly, towards the stationary object in a vertical/diagonal fashion from left to right, at a great speed,then the stationary object took off from a standstill, in the opposite direction from its oncoming threat, and just seemed to disappear , as did the other object, it just seemed to go up and up until it was gone, but only this object manouvered in a continuous line, never leaving it s course, unlike the stationary object. We saw the same phenomenon at least five times more, only they were not all heading south, some were heading north east and another passed over our heads towards the west. All looked identical, but then they were incredibly high in the sky. These events were also observed by two new members of the group, whom we had all awakened, due to our over excitement and disbelief of what we were encountering. During these proceedings, an aeroplane took off from Edinburgh Ai rport, heading South West of where we stood. Even once it was in the sky we were able to compare the sizes of the object and the plane, the best description we can muster, is the plane was sized like a pea, in comparis on to the object which was the equivelant of a needle prick, which suggested to us, the object was flying at an exceedingly high altitude. (We are no experts, and do not claim to be, but it is our own beliefs, they were just inside or outside the Earth's atmosphere). This whole experience lasted around 45 minutes (01:30 am) and was witnessed by nine people in total, although some members came a little later, but none of us can even begin to comprehend what we saw, but we know we did see it. It has been suggested that perhaps this could have been satellites, however, how can there possibly be several satellites, in the same part of the sky, going in different directions, at the same time, it seems very unlikely, and what were the projectile shooting objects which seemed to always be on the other objects pathway, on what seemed a collision course. We did report this incident to two newspapers, one local and the other in a major city, but not to have our story published, merely to try and find out if this was witnessed by anyone else, but we were unsuccessful here, however, one reporter did telephone us back and went out of his way to inform us, "no meteor showers or air activity, had been reported in this area" We then called a local Radio Station, after hearing on the grape vine that somone else had called the Station to report the same incident we witnessed, but because there had been only one caller, I think it was dismissed as a joke, that is until we called. Then there seemed a bit of interest, he obviously could not tell us who the other caller was, but he did provide us with a description, of the objects witnessed by the anonymous caller, and to our relief it was exactly the same. On reflection, it seems that these objects, at a quick glance up at the sky, could and probably would, be mistaken for stars, and the flashes just shooting stars, because this was our thoughts too, until it became a periodic occurence, hence, only occuring when a moving object was in the vicinity. All we ask of anyone reading this is keep an open mind, and do not prejudge us as insane. We would really like to know if anyone else has had similar sightings, to help us to share what we encountered and help us come to terms with it. World News ---------- [W 1]****** Source: The Southampton Press Date: 13th May 1997 Navy Drone Debris Found In TWA 800 Wreckage The Southampton Press reports that on May 13th, Long Island resident Dede Muma accidentally received a fax from Teledyne Ryan Aeronautical that was intended for the FBI's office in Calverton, Long Island. The fax indicates that parts of a U.S. Navy missile target drone, a BQM-34 Firebee I, may have been found in the wreckage of TWA 800. The reason that Muma accidentally received the fax, which she passed on to the Southampton Press, was probably because her fax number is 369-4310, while the FBI's number is 369-4301. About the fax, the Southampton Press states: Official documents faxed mistakenly to a Riverhead resident...show that the Federal Bureau of Investigation...was investigating whether pieces of debris found among the wreckage of TWA Fight 800 were the remnants of an aerial target drone used by the U.S. Navy... The fax shows a diagram of what appears to be a missile, along with a breakdown of its tail section and a parts list... The object shown in the fax was identified this week by Jane's Information Services in Alexandria, Virginia as a Teledyne Ryan BQM-34 Firebee I, an air or surface-launched recoverable aerial target. The targets are used all over the world, including within the military "warning areas" that come as close as about 10 nautical miles off Moriches Inlet in the Atlantic Ocean. The Navy practices shooting down drones within the warning areas. Ms. Muma said she called the FBI when she received the [Firebee] fax... Ms. Muma was told to "send it along to them, [the FBI] and destroy the original." She said she asked what would happen if she didn't do so, and was told "we'll have to investigate you." The source of the fax, Teledyne Ryan Aeronautical of San Diego, CA, manufactures Firebee drones for the Navy. The "Firebee fax" Muma received was sent from Erich Hittinger of Teledyne to FBI agent Ken Maxwell, who was to pass it on to a Teledyne Ryan representative at the FBI's Long Island office, Walt Hamilton. Hittinger of Teledyne Ryan told the Southampton Press that the FBI contacted them to ask if orange pieces of debris found at the TWA 800 crash site were from one of their Firebee drones, which are also orange. Hamilton was then flown from San Diego to the FBI's Long Island facility to examine the suspected Firebee debris. According to Hittinger, Hamilton concluded that the orange metal "wasn't from our Firebee," which suggests that it was from someone's Firebee, but not ours. Question: If your business depended upon government contracts, would you be inclined to prove that the government, your employer, killed people? It could prove to be a fatal business decision. WITH NAVY DRONE DEBRIS IN HAND In early May 1997, while the FBI had pieces of debris that they suspected came from a U.S. Navy missile-drone, what was the FBI telling us? FBI Director Louis Freeh was telling us it looks like the crash "was a catastrophic mechanical failure." FBI agent James Kallstrom was saying: "We see no evidence of a piece of shrapnel from a missile or a warhead going through the plane." On May 12th Newsday reported that with no evidence of a missile or foul play, the FBI was planning to end its investigation by early August. Clearly, as we have already seen with the cover-up of the explosives residue, there is no correlation between the FBI's public-relations front and the true story behind the scenes. Rather than telling the truth that they suspected a Navy missile-drone was involved, the FBI was pushing "mechanical failure" while simultaneously intimidating Dede Muma with threats of an investigation against her for refusing to destroy her errantly acquired evidence of U.S. Navy culpability in the downing of TWA Flight 800. HEAVY MILITARY AIRTRAFFIC The skies off the Long Island shore on July 17, 1996 were filled with aircraft. Not only were several Air National Guard aircraft in the air, and not only was a high-speed vehicle heading toward TWA 800 as reported by eyewitnesses, radar, and a satellite, but a U.S. Navy P-3 Orion was flying almost directly above TWA 800 when the accident occurred. Furthermore, several mysterious small aircraft fitting the profile of target drones were also seen in the area. Not only did Linda Kabot photograph what seems to be a drone missile, but the Long Island newspaper The Independent reported that witnesses saw a "smaller plane" flying near TWA 800 at crash time. Indeed, a Firebee drone looks like a "smaller plane." Even more, as I watched CNN on the night of the crash, a pilot was interviewed who said he saw what looked like a "stunt plane" crash into TWA 800. A Firebee looks like a "stunt plane," and alas, it seems that they may have found parts of this "stunt plane" in TWA 800. Yet more, the Boston Globe reported that in addition to seeing "a brilliant flare-like glow that streaked toward the plane," witnesses also saw "a low-flying aircraft without lights cruising off shore." Could that aircraft without lights have been one of the aerial target drones, perhaps Firebees, launched from Wallops Island on July 17th? Drones can fly for hundreds of miles. That there was such heavy military air-traffic on July 17 should not be a big surprise because there was a massive offshore military war-game called "Global Yankee '96" underway at the time. Virtually all the military assets in the air around TWA 800 that evening, including the Air National Guard aircraft, where scheduled to be involved in "Global Yankee '96." With such heavy military air-traffic and wargames in the area around TWA 800, which was on the "Betty track" (a safe route around active naval exercise zones), is it a surprise that over 150 witnesses saw TWA 800 being hit by a missile-like projectile? Is it a surprise that parts of a Navy missile-drone may have been found among the debris of TWA 800? I would dare to say that it is not a surprise. [W 2]****** Source: Computer Shopper Date: September 1997 Join the alien hunt... Caught up with all the hype from Nasa about the possibility that primitive life may once have existed on Mars? Well, if your on the Net, you will soon be able to join in the search for little green men from the comfort of your armchair; early next year Internet users will be asked to help researchers based at the Berkeley campus of the University of California in the hunt for extraterrestrial life. The university is co-ordinating the international Search for Extra- Terrestrial Life (SETI) programme and needs help to analyse the vast amount of captured data. Basically, the researchers have fitted an instrument to the world's largest radio telescope the Arecibo receiver placed in Puerto Rico. They are now using this telescope to trawl the heavens for signals that may have an intelligent origin, rather than just the cosmic radiation noise from exploding stars, colliding galaxies and the other celestial fireworks that the universe contains. Given that the receiver telescope is now scanning 168 million different radio frequencies every 1.7 seconds, it's not hard to see why the scientists are having to resort to involving the Internet community. To analyse their data otherwise, would require the massive application of expensive super computers. Instead, the Berkeley team is planning to break the data down into small portions and post on the Internet along with an analyses programme that will run under Windows. PC owners will be able to download a data section, leave their PC to mull it over (users will be able to download data sections that can be analysed in a set amount of time by a given PC configuration) and then upload their results. The scientists hope that within a year more than 100,000 intimate users will be participating in the project. [W 3]****** Source: Sky News (24 hour UK/European satellite news) Date: Monday 25th August 1997 Sky News special report. Did we go to the moon? This short report was broadcast throughout the day. At different times a longer version was also broadcast. [Transcript] Presenter: Now we've had claims that slices of slimming crisp bread have been used to produce hoax pictures of the surface of Mars. Now more allegations claim that the camera can lie even in space. It's 30 years since man first took the first steps on the Moon. Some space watchers are beginning to have their doubts. Peter Sharp reports. PS: When the giant Satan 5 rocket blasted off from Cape Canaveral to the Moon, it carried with it the hopes and asperations of not just the people of the United States but the entire world. [Neil Armstrong 1969] NA: That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind. -[continued in part 3]-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 {80} part 3 - United Kingdom UFO Network From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 20:39:43 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 15:39:30 -0400 Subject: {80} part 3 - United Kingdom UFO Network ______ _______ ____ ------ / / // ____// |---------------------------------------------- U K / / // ___/ / / ' September 5th, 1997 / / // / / / / N E T W O R K part 3 Issue 80 --- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------ The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with subscribers in over 40 countries. This issue comes in 3 parts. If any part is missing please mail: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject section e.g. Repost {80} part 1, part 2 or part 3. [cont...] PS: Nearly 30 years on children at the science Museum in London still look on in awe at the now primitive technology that put man on the Moon. It is an achievement so firmly entrenched in the collective consciousness of the world that to even question it amounts to heresy. But thats exactly what author David Percy is doing. After five years of research he's convinced that the Apollo 11 photographs, the historical record of man's first lunar excursion were faked. DP: There are two alternatives, either we went to the Moon and these arn't the photographs or mankind didn't go to the Moon at all. PS: Percy believes the pictures are littered with deliberately placed clues planted by frustrated project technicians outraged at the hoax. DP: This demonstrates [picture shown on computer monitor] how we feel that an astronaut has been filled in with light compare it with how it might have looked if it hadn't had any additional fill in light. Here we can see very clearly we have the Lem [moon lunar module] on the right and the fact that the shadow goes East West in this picture to the right of the frame, it would indicate to us that the sun is over here to the left and we would quite reasonably expect the shadows of the rock in the foreground to go East West. The fact that we can triangulate shadows back to a point here, that we believe that this positioning of the shadows is intentional. PS: The film Capricorn One released in 1978 had Nasa astronauts staging a landing on Mars on a film set. For those with doubts over Nasa's credibility this was more closer to science fact than science fiction. [Bill Kasing - former Nasa contractor] BK: We mounted this expedition, the expedition to the Moon almost 30 years ago and frankly you know I had a chance to look over the points that this person was making. I didn't understand them. I don't understand why we should spend the time to go off and do the research to look up. To prove to people that we went to the Moon. The fact of the matter is that we did go to the Moon. PS: David Percy will continue his research seeking to prove the unthinkable. That the greatest technological achievement in the history of mankind simply never happened. Peter Sharp Sky News in London. [W 4]****** uk.ufo.nw says: This is a truly fascinating story that we first became aware of after listening to Dan Sherman's interview on the excellent American radio show 'SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO WITH JEFF RENSE', transmitted on August 6th this year. This was Dan's first interview on national radio. An interview where he came over as being extremely sincere and believable. Dan's interview was meant to be one hour & thirty minutes long, half of the three hour show. However the story that Dan came across with was so fascinating that Jeff Rense asked his second guest if he would come back at a later date. Dan's interview then extended to the full three hours. Riveting stuff. If you would like to hear Dan Sherman's interview on 'Sighting On The Radio' or any other of these shows they are all archived at the following world wide web addresses: Home page: http://www.sightings.com/ Archive page: http://www.audionet.com/shows/endoftheline/archive.stm Dan Sherman's interview: http://www.audionet.com/shows/endoftheline/9708/end0806.ram To listen to any of the shows you will need the program 'Real Audio' available as a free download from: http://www.realaudio.com/ http://www.real.co.uk/ You can listen to the show/s in real time or as in our case connect a tape recorder to your computer and record the show for later listening at your leisure. We strongly recommend listening to Dan's interview and would like to hear your thoughts on this young man. Send your mail to the usual address at: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk With: DAN SHERMAN as the subject heading. Source: UFO UpDates Mailing List Date: July 1997 Summary by: Glenn Campbell campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas) An email interview with former government insider Dan Sherman is now available at: http://www.ufomind.com/people/s/sherman/interview.shtml SUMMARY OF INTERVIEW From 1992 through 1994, Dan ("D.L") Sherman claims to have worked with a secret military program to communicate with aliens. He was a government specialist who received communications from alien beings and typed them on a computer terminal. His job was analogous to a communications officer on a ship receiving morse code but with more depth and greater exchange between the parties. He never saw any aliens, only communicated with them "intuitively". Sherman says he was prepared for this role by the aliens before his birth. Apparently during an abduction of his mother in 1963, his genetic structure was slightly altered to allow him to receive alien communications. He was unaware of this ability until, years later, he was briefed about it while in the Air Force. He was assigned to a program called "Project Preserve Destiny" (PPD). He was told that the purpose of the program was to provide a network of communications in the future when electromagnetic communications would not work. He calls the ability "intuitive communications" (IC). His abilities were "activated" during an 8-10 week course at NSA headquarters at Fort Meade in early 1992. It was a sort of "night school" after his daytime training in another secret but conventional field. After training, Sherman's PPD duties were veiled by conventional top secret duties at two Air Force bases. While at work he would receive notification (apparently psychic), that a communication was about to begin. He would then open a special blank window on the computer terminal where he was working and would type the communication into it. He would then close the window, and the information would be sent to an unknown destination. The content of the communications ("comms") were numbers mostly. It was mainly things he did not understand, but some of the numbers he recognized as the coordinates of locations on earth. He says he received longer comms right after major space launches such as Arianne and the Shuttle. Sherman says: "During my last few months I started to receive what I thought to be abduction data. This is when I started having questions and I began to want out of the whole thing. This led to the sequence of events resulting in my discharge. I think they were testing my resolve as well because all of a sudden the comms were not totally in code anymore. I thought that was quite odd. I'm not sure what was going on but I didn't like the comms. I would be told locations, resistance levels, residual pain levels, potentiality for recall and each case that I reported would be given a code. I had no idea what the codes were but I didn't like it... bottom line. I felt like I was reporting the lab results of a bunch of mice experiments." Sherman says he left the PPD program in Dec. 1994 and obtained release from the military in April 1995 because of his discomfort with what he was learning. Sherman says he shows no evidence of psychic ability apart from communication with these aliens. Since leaving the military, he has received no further comms and has had no further contact with his previous government contacts in the program. No government agents have threatened him to keep quiet, but he fears that any improper disclosures of his "conventional" top secret work could get him in trouble. He has been working on a book, but that project has been slowed by his own concern about "legal issues." Sherman says that his communication with the aliens was two-way. He calls them complex creatures. He says that although he cannot describe them visually, "mentally, they are rigid, disciplined and mostly unemotional." He did sense compassion from them, however. "It was almost like this was their nature but they overrode this characteristic because they perhaps felt it was a weakness." An alien told him that they had been visiting earth "since the beginning." "They had made there presence known at some time in the past to our ancestors and that the whole thing went haywire somehow, so they have chosen to remain selective in their revelations since. They impacted three historical cultures in the past. Which ones they didn't say, but I have extrapolated since based on other information. I also learned that there are other alien 'species' besides the ones I commed with. The whole reason for PPD is to train a certain number of humans to be able to communicate with the aliens so as to provide a network of communications in the future when electromagnetic communications will not work. I was never told what 'event' this would be, but I have my own ideas based on other information I've learned over the years." If anyone would like to ask Mr. Sherman about his experiences, he has agreed to answer questions by email. His replies will be saved and added to a new web document, so they are available to everyone and he does not have to answer the same questions repeatedly. Send queries to Dan Sherman at: ppdman@juno.com With a cc to: campbell@ufomind.com For more on Sherman, see www.ufomind.com/people/s/sherman/ Summary by Glenn Campbell (a neutral party) Reviewed and approved by D.L. Sherman 7/24/97 [W 5]****** Source: Fox TV USA Title: UFOs The Best Evidence Ever Caught on Tape Transmitted: Monday 28th July 1997 Fox TV - Pheonix Arizona - March 1997 Jonathan Frakes [JF] presenting. [JF] Pheonix Arizona 1997. It began March 13th. Residents had observed strange lights in the sky for the preceding three nights which were captured on this short tape. Then at 9.45pm on the 13th thousands of people witnessed this amazing display. Tom King [TK] a local resident captured it on tape. [TK] This isn't like the stuff I normally see. This is extraordinary. You look at it. Thats not an aircraft. We were perplexed the whole time trying to figure out what is this thing. [JF] As the tape rolled five lights blinked on in sequence offering an outline of a flying object in the ? near the mountains. Bill Hamilton [BH] a resident was with King as he taped the lights. [BH] This was a very significant mass sighting because at least one of these objects was seen travelling down diagonally the entire state of Arizona. Thousands of witnesses. Several video tapes. Hundreds of phone calls were made to local television stations, the local police stations. [JF] That same evening insurance salesman Mike Chrispen [MC] was at home with his wife when he recorded this astonishing video of the same event from 40 miles away. [MC] We saw a single point of light further to the east on the mountains than I have ever seen before. All of a sudden another sequence of lights started to form to the right of it. I happened to be catching everything when the whole entire sequence came on. [Mrs MC] They're very large. Larger than any lights in the city. [MC] Take a look at the footage. I'm not telling you what they are. If it was an alien space craft there's something out there that they can't ? [JF] Amazingly a third video is shot simultaneously showing the same lights going out in order. [JB] It's an amazing thing. This is a huge sighting that happened. [JF] By inputing the video into a computer image processor Jim Billatoer [JB] was able to determin what the Pheonix UFO looked like. [JB] Now we have 3D mountains and topology that we can swing around and look at different angles. We feel very certain that the object tip to tip is more than a mile long. [JF] National newspapers soon carried front page stories of the enormous V shaped object seen over Pheonix. But the local military base did nothing to calm the fears of the 10,000 residents who were startled by what they saw. A pheonix council woman Francis Barwood [FB] has called for an investigation into the strange lights. [FB] There is people that were active military that were afraid to say publically what they saw. They had been told that it would be the end of their career. The Answers ----------- Landing a robotic vehicle on a comet uk.ufo.nw says - In issue {79} of the e-zine we posed the following question: Question: Would it be possible using todays technology to land a robotic vehicle on a passing comet? To record information as the comet travels it's orbit into deep space. To be collected the next time it passes Earth, whenever that might be. Here are three of the replies we received. Many thanks to all who answered. -- From: clive.metson@virgin.net There are two major problems with landing on a passing comet: 1. Meeting it. 2. Staying on it. The first is probably the easiest obstacle to overcome. The orbital mechanics would not allow 'conventional' approach due to lack of gravity. The approach would have to be on a solar orbit thus necessitating a large fuel payload for manuverability to make the landing and collection approaches. This would differ from the Comet Halley approach which was a flyby through the tail. On this mission the orbits would have to be similar to enable matching during landing and pickup. The second problem of staying on the comet would be far greater. A comet is small so the gravity between it and the lander would be negligible. This means it would be impossible for the lander to just sit on the body. It would need anchoring. The surface of the comet is eroded during its solar approach so an anchor in the ice would be likely to break free unless it was particularly deep. A spiders web approach might prove a better solution. There are other points, fuel leakage from the lander during its long stay, lack of power, unless nuclear generated, would necessitate passive instruments. The use of a nuclear plant would solve the power situation but to what effect on the comet? The waste heat would need to be completely radiated away into space to prevent the 'dirty snowball' melting. -- From: David Skinner <david@drspc.demon.co.uk> I dunno if it's possible but it would be a clever idea - hitch a ride on a comet to the outer limits of the solar system and collect the data when it returned. Of course, the longer the period of the comet the better but the longer it would take to get the data back. It's quite possible that by the time a long period comet returns we will be able to send probes to those areas easily and cheaply anyway. The huge amount of collected information over (maybe) hundreds of years would need either a totally new data storage system or some form of artificial intelligence - deciding what information is valuable/interesting and discarding most of the rest. It would be impractical to radio the data back from the surface of the comet since it would be rapidly tumbling and, for most of the voyage, it would be a VERY long way away from us. Also it would need a power supply independent of the sun - probably nuclear. Of course, we could simply launch a craft in a typical commentary orbit and manage without the piggy-back ride altogether. There is one major problem that I foresee - if we pick the wrong comet then we might encounter the spaceship carrying the Heaven's Gate cult to their next plane of existence. We wouldn't want to disturb them, would we? David Skinner -- From: sacpbl@cardiff.ac.uk A comet is essentially the same as any other object, it acts under the influence of the same physical forces, therefor it would be relatively simple to get a probe to the comet and then send a vehicle to its surface. If the comet was on its way back out of the solar system, thus having already passed the sun, then the amount of debris would be at its minimum allowing the probe the maximum protection. Once on the comet, the probe would need to secure itself firmly on the surface, due to the extreme gravitational forces that the comet may encounter when passing the outer planets. Sending information back from the probe may be hampered by the dust corona and also the possible rotations of the comet which would make arial alignment a nightmare. The probable solution would be to have an escape probe which will fire itself clear of the comet when it comes back into the solar system but before the sun causes too much of a destructive corona. This probe can then theoretically align itself and transmit its valuable cargo back to earth before becoming another piece of space junk. In theory this is possible, but there are far too many things that can go wrong, however, the Galileo probe was able to withstand a tremendous pounding; so who knows? Paul Little --- A FEARFUL SYMMETRY A TRUE STORY OF ALIEN INTRUSION INTO HUMAN LIVES By D. Lynne Bishop A FEARFUL SYMMETRY Copyright 1995 by D. Lynne Bishop All rights reserved. No part of this publication may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical including photocopying, recording or otherwise without prior permission of the publisher, except by a reviewer who may quote brief passages. First Printing September 1995 Printed in the United States of America BOOKFINDER PUBLISHING --- CHAPTER THREE At the end of my first session, it was obvious to all of us that I had not broken completely through the block that had been imposed on my memory of that long ago event. The skillful questioning by the hypnotherapist had uncovered an area that I was unable to talk about during that session, and I was left intensely keyed up. I was extremely angry with myself for being unable to face something in my past, and puzzled by my inability to work through it during the regression. In spite of my serious doubts and misgivings toward the alien abduction theory, it was beginning to appear there was credence to the entire phenomenon. My mother's calmer acceptance of the unusual events was mystifying to me. Her memories had contained nothing that particularly distressed her, and she felt that no harm had been intended or caused by the apparently alien entities. And yet, the brief glimpse I had seen before my memory block had occurred gave me every indication that something very distressing had happened to me. The constraint I felt in not feeling free to discuss all the aspects with her was very nearly overwhelming, yet I did not want to damage either of our testimonies through contamination. As a result, our relationship suffered, as I turned to other family members in my outpouring of grief and anguish at events that I could little understand, much less fully believe had even occurred, despite the correlations and corroborating evidence. I told by husband I felt I had gained some aliens and lost my family in the process. None of them seemed able to understand or empathize with what I was feeling, and despite my attempts, I was unable to make them understand. My inner struggle to regain a semblance of comprehension, and my urgent, almost obsessive need for answers was apparent to everyone. Another session was set for May 22, at which time we would explore the memories behind my secondary block. The hypnotherapist had indicated that following my first session, other memories would probably surface from time to time, but I was shocked by the many visions that arose, like shattered fragments of a broken whole. As I fought to incorporate these tantalizing shards, I found myself becoming more insomniac. I had always been a light sleeper, able to awaken easily and fully conscious at the drop of a pin, but now I found myself sleeping only one or two hours at a stretch, never fully relaxed. I never seemed to sleep during the hours of 1:00 A.M. through 3:00 A.M., and was constantly alert to the slightest sound or movement. While I wouldn't recommend it as a way to diet, I also dropped ten pounds within two weeks, due to loss of appetite. My husband's calm fortitude throughout the trying weeks was a pillar on which I leaned heavily. In spite of the fact that I had turned our world upside down, his steady, firm belief in me remained a constant beacon--a ray of light in an otherwise dark tunnel. As I wrestled with philosophical and personal quandaries, he continued to assist as a sounding-board for the myriad questions that surfaced as I sought my position in a world I hadn't believed existed. Surely, I thought, I must have strained my credibility to the breaking point, when I told him, very matter-of- factly, that the aliens I had seen during my first session had what looked like suction pads on the ends of their long fingers. Yet, he took my statement in stride--never wavering in his steadfast support. My entire family had watched the television movie "Intruders" on May 17 and 19, and many of the scenes had contained elements of a reality in which I was only slowly beginning to believe. My husband and I were watching together, sitting on the couch in our living room, and I literally jumped off the couch at one point, exclaiming, "My God, look! He's in a tube!" The scene was so fleeting that none of our friends remembered having seen it. We had, fortunately, videotaped the movie, and were able to point it out on replay. Meanwhile, I awaited the 22nd with mixed emotions. In one respect, I was less tense, since I was now familiar with the memory recovery process--but on the other hand, I was extremely nervous about what might surface, and what it might portend. --------------------------------------------------------------------- UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK STATEMENT uk.ufo.nw statement: The articles or text appearing within these pages are not necessarily the views or opinions of United Kingdom UFO Network. REPORTS Please forward all reports to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk WWW Visit us on the World Wide Web at http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/ BACK ISSUES & FILES For information on receiving back issues and other files send mail with REQUEST INFO in the subject area to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk IRC - (INTERNET RELAY CHAT) The meetings take place at 11pm (2300hrs) each and every Saturday night. Times will vary depending on your location in the world. If you would like to know the time in your part of the world send a mail to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk In the subject section put: IRC TIME INFO In the message of your mail please put: a) Your Country b) Your location c) Nearest major City Connecting to our weekly UFO meetings on the IRC (internet relay chat) is now easier than ever. If you are using at least one of the following web browers: Netscape 3 ++ MS Internet Explorer 4 ++ Simply visit one of the below url's (world wide web) addresses. When the 'ultrachat' page has loaded you will see a large grey filled box somewhere on the screen. It may then take a few more seconds for the java script to load and run. The grey area will then turn white and you will be asked to enter a nickname. Your own name or a nickname will suffice here. Once you press return you will be presented with various bits of information scrolling up the screen. After a few seconds you will be connected to the uk.ufo.nw #UFO channel. Down the right hand side of the screen you will see a list of the people currently on channel. At the bottom of the screen is where you type your messages. The large upper left section of the screen is were you read and follow the proceedings of the meetings. Don't be shy. We are all a friendly bunch. Give it a go. You'll soon get the hang of it. We'll be happy to offer any assistance that you may need. http://www.ufo.grid9.net http://www.crowman.demon.co.uk/ultrachat.htm http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/ultrachat.html http://web.ukonline.co.uk/colin.light/ultrachat.htm http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/ultrachat.html http://www.elector.demon.co.uk/ultrachat.html http://bookfinder.simplenet.com/ultracht.htm http://razorsedge.dyndns.com/~lwelch The uk.ufo.nw #UFO channel is open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Visit the channel at any time. There is usually someone there to talk to. For those of you needing help connecting to our IRC meetings send your questions to: ufo-irc-advice@crowman.demon.co.uk If you want to be a little more adventurous and perhaps use one of the dedicated IRC programs such as the excellent MIRC visit the below urls for advice: http://www.crowman.demon.co.uk/ultranet.htm http://web.ukonline.co.uk/phil.light/irchelp.htm SUBSCRIPTION INFORMATION The UK.UFO.NW free fortnightly e-zine covering UFO reports and information from the UK and around the world is now available by subscribing to our new List Server. Send mail to: listserv@sjuvm.stjohns.edu In the main body of the mail put: subscribe ufo fn ln note: in place of fn put your first name. in place of ln put your last name. For example: subscribe ufo John Smith A confirm mail will then be sent to you which you need to reply to within 48 hours to be put on the e-zine mailing list. 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UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 15:38:34 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 15:59:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 >Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 15:48:42 +0100 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 >> I checked and found an article about lights being sighted >> outside of town at night. >Hello Mike, Jan and List >A thought here. I might be wrong about airships and dirigables but >during the years after 1903 and well afterwards, lights on airplanes was >a luxury in expense and weight that could not be afforded. I'm almost >certain that electric lights on airships of the periods mentioned from >1894 etc. up until the early 20s would have been forbidden due to the >danger of spark induced explosions. Generators were spark prone and >spark free switches were virtually unknown for battery operation. That >left gas operated lights and I'm sure they would have been even more of >a hazard on hydrogen filled airships. >Aircraft on the other hand did not begin to employ lights until the mid >twenties on commercial passenger carriers. Generators, voltage >regulators and batteries on smaller aircraft were a weight penalty >luxury not deemed necessary where engines were already overweight and >underpowered and adding a generator would load those same engines down >robbing badly needed horsepower. There were also carbide and oil lamps in use at that time. >Don Ledger REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Statement from Ray Santilli From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 15:48:19 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 16:20:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Statement from Ray Santilli >Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 12:24:14 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Statement from Ray Santilli >Not trying to 'derail' the thread, just utilizing an opportunity. >As we say in NY, 'not for nothin' but Sims & Co haven't adequately >explained the results of the testing done on the 'implants' that were >retrieved TWO FREAKING YEARS AGO! >They subjected some fifteen people to surgical proceedures, forgot them, >forgot the public, and now have shifted the focus by getting themselves >involved in the analysis of the AA film. >Remember the Alamo! Let's not forget Pat P and all the other brave souls >who volunteered to have these things removed and who have never recieved >satisfactory answers. Ask Pat, he'll tell you about the 'quality' of an >analysis performed by Sims & Co. >Before everyone gets involved in this new AA film business I just wanted to >remind everyone about the abductees, (that son-of-a bitch cut these people >open to get what he was after) what they went thru, and the implants. I >don't expect that anything (that _we'll_ ever know about) will come of this >AA film analysis by Sims & Co. . >John Velez, Abductee Union Rep. There has been no release of additional information, no statements from anyone with first hand knowledge of, nor investigative discoveries during the past year that I'm aware of, that justifies continuation of the debate regarding the AA film. Santilli has made several comments that have been posted (with permission) to clarify existing information, but his credibility among most is suspect so any debate would merely rehash subjects that have been discussed to death already. Given the information we have on it, I would suggest that the only thing that can be said for sure is that all we have seen is an interesting bit of "film". Sims and Leir have gotten involved in this tangent of the genre for some strange reason, perhaps related to his desire to further his connection to the Roswell event. John didn't even mention the "Roswell Debris" that Sims and Paul Davids presented on July 4th in Roswell as proof positive of alien visitation. Of course, we were once again left with more questions than answers and the promise of full disclosure in the future. I would agree with John that we shouldn't get involved in the AA "film", unless someone has new information to share and discuss. Sims should have disclosed the results of his implant research to those from whom he removed them, but I don't know what type of legal arrangements had been made prior to the surgery, and they may give Sims total control over the information (which in hindsight shouldn't have been signed, if that's the case). Just a few thoughts. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 UFO REPORT, November, 1960 From: KENNY <task@fuse.net> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 15:50:10 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 16:20:17 -0400 Subject: UFO REPORT, November, 1960 Could anyone assist by finding newspaper articles of this event from other hometown newspapers where sighted? Additional details may better help to triangulate altitude of object and direction of travel... thanks ========================================================================= Report on 1960 UFO SIGHTING, November 23 Item #1: Re-typed Newspaper article: Widespread Reports- UFO FLAMES ACROSS NATION By Joe Eble, Enquirer Science Reporter The Cinciannati Enquirer, November 24, 1960 A huge, luminous flame-tailed something flashed across the pre-dawn sky yesterday, stirring a storm of UFO (unidentified flying object) reports throughout the Midwest, including Cincinnati. The final explanation was still 'up in the air' last night. The sighting was noted by residents of Ohio, Illinois, Indiana, Missouri, Michigan, Wisconsin and New York. Most of the reports agreed that whatever was seen was in the eastern sky between 6:15 and 6:30 a.m. about 25 to 30 degrees above the horizon. They described it as a bright light veiled in a sort of mist and having a fan-shaped tail or "headlight." Ideas, official and unofficial, on what it was varied. * Tiros II, the man-made weather satellite launched from Cape Canaveral at 6:13 a.m. yesterday. * One of two giant weather balloons launched early yesterday, one at Sioux Falls, S.D. the other at Wayne, Mich. * A shower of Tinfoil dropped over Carleton, Mich. by an Air Force jet in a radar obstruction test. * Two B-52 bombers flying at 40,000 feet. * A meteor. * An experimental aircraft. The last suggestion was advanced by B.J. Sharrock, 266 Oakmont Ave., Hartwell, apparently the only one of hundreds of observers of the strange object who looked at it through binoculars. Among the Cincinnati observers was Escal Bennett, head of the Weather Bureau office here. He watched it briefly from 6:22 a.m. from Abbe Observatory in Clifton. "I have no idea what it was," he stated, but he discounted meteorological phenomena and weather balloons. It looked like a "hard core of light" on the edge of a cumulous cloud, with another light 'flaring out about five degrees' at its bottom. It was veiled in a "faint curious white stuff like smoke or vapor," he said. Bennett said observers at both Lunken and Greater Cincinnati Airport towers saw it, and William Howe, in charge of the Miami Conservancy District's observation program at Dayton, Ohio, confirmed the description and added that he saw two smaller lights near it. Raymond Spitznagel, 544 Burr Oak St., Winton Pl. and his son, Richard, 13, watched it for 10 minutes as they were going to church. His description matched the general reports. "It was too bright to be a star," he said. He stated that it was motionless at first, then moved to his left, made a half-circle, stopped, went back to its starting place and disappeared. Mrs. Bailey Dickerson, 1734 Tuxworth Ave., Price Hill, said her husband called her attention to it as he left for work. "It looked to me like a star, but with a streamer on the bottom of it." Sharrock had just arrived at work in Sharonville when he noticed it. He snatched a pair of 10-power binoculars from his car and watched it for six minutes before it disappeared. >From what I could see it was a definite solid man-made object." He said it looked 'cigar-shaped,' like two saucers upside down, rim to rim. At one end was a 'searchlight or floodlight, shining down on a cloud.' This light was at one end and then at the other, suggesting to Sharrock that the object was revolving. "On the side appeared to be a row of lights - where the rims would meet. The top and bottom were real black... real shiny jet black." He said he couldn't see the ends clearly because of 'gaseous vapors' which surrounded it. The National Aeronautics and Space Administration in Washington said Tiros II could not have been the mysterious object since it went the other direction and was too high to be seen by the eye. University of Michigan officials, who put the Sioux Falls balloon (a 16 story camera observer) aloft, also discounted it. They pointed out that the balloon was seen west of Michigan at the same time of the sightings, while the object was reported to the east. End of article =================================================================== Item #2: Re-Typed Newspaper article: What-Is-It Sweeps Across City's Sky The Cincinnati Post and Times Star, Wednesday, November 23, 1960 Page 1:A A bright moving object like a star with a V-saped tail was seen this morning by hundreds of Greater Cincinnatians and early risers in many other cities as far away as Detroit and Chicago. There were several theories about what the bright object might have been, including a balloon launched in connection with a new Tiros II weather satellite, rockets on the satellite, reflections of the rising sun on a high-flying jet plane, or metal foil dropped from a jet in a test of radar jamming equipment. The balloon was released from Sioux Falls, S.D. at 4:50 a.m. Cincinnati time. The Tiros satellite was fired from Cape Canaveral at 6:13 a.m. Most of the sightings throughout the Midwest were reported within 12 minutes after the Tiros was fired. Air Force authorities in Washington at the North American Air Defense Command at Colorado Springs, Col. at Traus Air Force Base, Madison Wisc. conferred by telephone, and then concluded it was a reflection from the balloon. However, the balloon was reported over Mason City, Iowa three hours after the sightings. A spokesman at the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory in Cambridge, Mass. said the object sighted over the Midwest could not have been the Tiros satellite. A member of the moonwatch team in Cincinnati said it was possible that persons in this area could have seen the rockets from Tiros as it went up. He said the time and direction of persons who reported seeing the object in this area coincided with the firing of Tiros. He said a rocket lauched from Florida was seen a year ago as it exploded. Everyone here agreed on what it looked like, but not on which direction it was traveling. Mrs. Gloria Gayhart of Middletown told The Post and Times-Star she and her husband, James, saw the object shortly after 6 a.m. "I thought it was a star at first," Mrs. Gayhart said. "Then we noticed it had a V-shaped tail, something like a jet-stream." She said the tail stretched out at a great length from the main object. She said it appeared to be traveling from the southwest to the northeast. Escal Bennet, in charge of the Weather Bureau office in Cincinnati, saw the object at 6:22 a.m. while he was making observations at the Abbe Observatory in Clifton. "There was a hard core of light with a trailing light behind it," Mr. Bennet said. Mr. Bennet described it as being shaped like a flashlight with a V-shaped beam. "I know it was not a meteorological phenomenon," Mr. Bennet said. "I had the definite feeling that it was lifting or going up. I have no idea what it might have been." Mr. Bennet said the object appeared to be 25 to 30 degrees high. He was looking east at the time and noticed it several times while making weather observations. Richard Guinn and Clarence Berry, trouble shooters for the Cincinnati Gas and Electric Co. were on North Bend Road near the new St. Xavier High School when they saw the object. They said they watched it from 6:21 until it disappeared at 6:25 a.m. Carl Haefner of Hillside Terrace, Milford, said he saw what appeared to be two objects. He said the second light with a fan-shaped tail was not as large as the other. Mr. Haefner, an amateur astronomer, went into the house to get his wife. He said one object was gone when he got outside again. He said the remaining object moved south, then wound up clockwise and disappeared like a fading light. "Just at that moment, something like a huge meteor came down," Mr. Haefner said. End of Article __________________________________________________________________ Analysis of Reported UFO Sighting- November 23, 1960 Time of Event: 6:15 a.m. until 6:30 a.m. Duration of Event: Some reported constant observations for 4-minute periods, others reported 6 & 10-minute durations. Locations of where sighted from: Ohio (Dayton, Middletown, Cincinnati, Toledo), Illinois (Chicago), Michigan (Detroit), Wisconsin, New York, Indiana and Missouri. Descriptions given of object: -Bright light veiled in a sort of mist and having a fan-shaped tail or 'headlight.' -Big light too bright for a star -Star with a streamer on bottom -Cigar-shape resembling two saucers upside-down, rim to rim with a floodlight shining down on a cloud. This light was at one end and then appeared at the other, suggestive of a 'revolving' motion. A row of lights where rims would meet were described. The top and bottom were "shiny, jet black." The ends couldn't be seen clearly because of 'gaseous vapors' surrounding it -"Hard core of light" on the edge of a cumulous cloud, with another light 'flaring out about 5-degrees' at its bottom. -Star with "V-shape" tail like a jet stream which stretched out at a great length from main object. -25 to 30-degrees above horizon -Generally reported in the eastern sky -East of the Abbe Observatory, Clifton (suburb of Cincinnati, OH) -Two lights, 2nd light w/fan-shaped tail not as large as other -Veiled in a "faint curious white stuff like smoke or vapor." Ballistic Characteristics: -Motionless at first, then moved to left (from observer vantage point), made a half-circle, stopped, went back to its starting place and disappeared." (Raymond Spitznagel) -Traveling from southwest to northeast (Mrs. Gloria Gayhart) -Lifting or going up (Escal Bennet, Cincinnati Weather Bureau) -Object moved south from original position then 'wound-up' clockwise and disappeared like a fading light. At that moment, something like a huge meteor "came down." (Carl Haefner, amateur astronomer) Witnesses: CARL HAEFNER - Amateur astronomer ESCAL BENNETT - Supervisor of The Cincinnati Weather Bureau RICHARD GUINN - Cincinnati Gas & Electric Trouble-Shooter CLARENCE BERRY - Cincinnati Gas & Electric Trouble-Shooter JAMES GAYHART - Middletown resident GLORIA GAYHART - Middletown resident B.J. SHARROCK - Hartwell (Cinti suburb) resident WILLIAM HOWE - Miami Conservancy District's Observation Program RAYMOND SPITZNAGEL & Son - Winton Place, Cincinnati, OH Mr. and Mrs. BAILEY DICKERSON - Price Hill (Cinti suburb) residents GREATER CINCINNATI & LUNKEN AIRPORT AIR TOWER CONTROLLERS Reportage: The news articles sought to apply various prosaic explanations to the event, all of which were listed as being incompatible to the fully deal with the reported incident. 1. TIROS II weather satellite launched from CAPE CANAVERAL at 6:13 a.m. 2. "One of two" giant weather balloons launched from two locations: Sioux Falls, South Dakota and Wayne, Michigan. 3. Shower of tinfoil dropped over Carleton, Michigan by an Air Force jet in a radar obstruction test. 4. Two B-52 bombers flying at 40,000 feet 5. A meteor 6. Experimental aircraft 7. Reflections of the rising sun from a high-flying jet plane The following conclusions were drawn (regarding the above explanation attempts): - Meteorological phenomena and weather balloons discounted (Bennet, Cinti Weather Bureau) - NASA said TIROS II went the other direction and too high to be seen by the eye. NASA said TIROS II "could not have been the mysterious object." The NASA contention was also bolstered by a spokesman at the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory in Cambridge. In disagreement with the above is a member of "the moonwatch team" in Cincinnati, who said persons in this area could have seen the rockets from TIROS II as it went up. - University of Michigan discounted that the Sioux Falls balloon was the object, because it was seen west of Michigan at the time of the sightings while the object was reported to the east. However, AF persons in Washington at the North American Air Defense Command at Colorado Springs, Col. at Traus AFB, Madison, Wisc said it was a reflection from the balloon. Again, however, this balloon was reported over Madison City, Iowa, three hours after the sighting. ADDITIONAL NOTE: Two days earlier during the evening of Nov. 21, 1960, mysterious lights were reported by many people in Cincinnati, reference the following article: Re-typed Newspaper Article: No UFO! The Cincinnati Enquirer November 22, 1960 Lunken Airport control tower operators last night quickly solved the "mysterious lights" reported seen by many in the sky over Cincinnati. Merely the navi- gational lights on three tanker planes flying formation from Clinton County Air Force Base at Wilmington, Ohio, the tower said. End of article Other Mention: Entry for November 24, 1960 from NICAP's THE UFO EVIDENCE: OHIO- White elliptical UFO observed by scientist. Although the date in NICAP files is one day after the mass- sighting, this could, nonetheless, be the same event. Comment: As stated above within the text of the reportage, most basic explan- ations have been ruled out. Exploring variations of these theories could lead us to ask the following questions: SUNLIGHT REFLECTING OFF OF JETS (B-52's flying at 40,000 feet spotted at the same moment in the eastern sky and over 7-states doesn't seem likely. The position of the available sunlight is also a factor. At which time would the breaking sunlight be striking any such hypothetical planes from whatever altitude necessary to produce this effect over 7-states? The actual sunrise in Cincinnati on November 23, 1960, was 7:30 a.m., well over an hour after the time of the sighting. Sunlight peeking around the curvature of the earth would not be visible to jets over Cincinnati while flying at a 40,000 ft. elevation at the 6:15 a.m. time frame, so no glare or reflection would be possible at that moment. Even so, no such illumination from one aircraft would be seen simultaneously over 7-states across a range of well over 1,174-miles from New York to Wisconsin, Chicago and Cincinnati. Furthermore, what is the possibilities that a sunlight reflection from the surface of a plane would produce the same result, as seen from the ground, from Wisconsin to New York? Wouldn't the angle and intensity of the reflection vary from one location to another, and also at differing times? Also, the descriptive characteristics such as 'veiled in a mist w/fan-shaped tail,' sounds meteoric or rocket-like as opposed to a localized, specific object such as a jet aircraft. Reference is also made to vapors and clouds surrounding or partly concealing the object, again, further indications that would lead us away from the balloon or jet theory. The rocket launch, Tiros II, headed the opposite direction, according to NASA, and shouldn't be visible to people in the midwestern and eastern U.S. The meteor aspect, when considered, is not plausible if the accounts of apparent course deviation beyond natural possibilites are to be considered. The course-change descriptions are provided by two independent witnesses (Spitznagel & Haefner) who described its motion as moving in a 'half-circle' and that it 'wound up clockwise.' Bennet (from the Cinti Weather Bureau) thought it was 'moving up.' The scrutiny through binoculars by Mr. Sharrock revealed a 'revolving, cigar-shaped object like two saucers upside-down, rim to rim' with a searchlight or floodlight on one end. Where the rims met, he described a 'row of lights.' The ends weren't visible because of 'gaseous vapors.' These details are shaky when one considers what light source he was viewing the object from (existing pre-dawn daylight or darkness). If daylight was insufficient, his qualification of a solid, cigar-shaped structure with lights may be made under an assumption which could be subject to many mis-interpretational factors, including hand-held instability of binoculars. An object, visible for 10 to 15-minutes over 7-states, would also complicate most conventional explanations such as meteoric phenomenon, rocket launch, and/or balloons or jet aircraft reflecting sunlight. The 1969 media reportage acquired from the Cincinnati publications are far more objective, descriptive and comprehensive than news media accounts afforded by major news establishments in the 1990s. A comparable event sighted over the a broad area of the southwestern United States in October of 1996 did not engender the professional analysis and scrutiny given to the 1960 event. From the existing information available acquired through media reportage of the event, this 1960 happening could qualify as one of the better cases to substantiate the reality of unidentified flying objects when all facts are considered. Kenny Young T.A.S.K. Special thanks: DALE FARMER TERRY ENDRES -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ___________ ________ ________ ____ ___ * * /__ ____/ / __ ) ( ____/ / // / * * / / / /__| | \ \ / < * * / / / ____ | ___\ \ / /\ \ * * /___/ /___/ |___| /_______) /___/ \___\ * * * * http://home.fuse.net/task/ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "Investigation without predisposition." T.A.S.K. - Tri-State Advocates for Scientific Knowledge
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 15:53:57 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 16:22:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli >Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 12:26:41 +0200 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Karel Bagchus <karel@atmm.nl> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli >>From: XianneKei@aol.com >>Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:24:03 -0400 (EDT) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli >>From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >>Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:22:13 -0400 >>Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 10:02:57 -0400 >>Subject: Sims, Leir and Santilli >>Frankly Bob, I don't understand what L&S had hoped to >>accomplish by having the film tested and giving the result >>ONLY to Ray Santilli? >Well, If the film is tested, and the results are made public, >then it will probably be that the film is authentic. >But if the results are not made public, I'll draw my own >concusions from that. Results from one piece of "film" has been released, but why would anyone put any effort into testing a strip of film that, by definition, is a copy of the original and the real thing. The strip of "film" given to Sims is apparently from the same stock as that given to Philip Mantle, which was a copy and didn't contain images of the "alien", so we don't even know if it's relevent to the discussion.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Nov 1957: Moore & Stokes From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 16:15:02 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 18:48:47 -0400 Subject: Nov 1957: Moore & Stokes NOVEMBER 1957: MOORE AND STOKES Loren Gross continues to examine the November 1947 era and could use some help on these two cases. Both Olden Moore, the Ohio UFO witness, and James Stokes, the White Sands engineer, are interesting characters in the unfolding events of the November 1957 flap. Since the early 1960's, very little new information has come out about either case. On the 4 November 1957 about 1:10 p. m. local time, near Orogrande, NM, James W. Stokes, a high altitude research engineer, saw an elliptical UFO sweep across the highway twice. The car radio and the engine failed. Stokes claimed that other drivers were also on the road, and their engines had also failed. Stokes felt a wave of heat, and later his face appeared "sunburned." "Writer's Digest" later did a story on the sighting entitled,"The Day All Roads Led to Alamagrodo." Stokes was interviewed on KALG which was used as the basis of the "Writer's Digest" story. The Air Force contented that they could not locate any of the other witnesses. (No one, to my knowledge, came forth in the newspapers, either.) The Air Force labeled the story a hoax. Stokes continued to work at White Sands. It was even reported that he had later been promoted. The rumors at the time were that he had been silenced by officials. Stokes supposedly had an earlier sighting. However, no details are known about it. In 1956 and 1957 Coral Lorenzen and Major Keyhoe were still on fairly good terms. Coral in one of her letters to Keyhoe before the sighting mentioned that Stokes was angry with the Air Force and was planning something to get even. Apparently, Stokes was close to APRO before the sighting. If the APRO files were available, some questions about Stokes could possible be easily answered. However, here is a list of questions: 1) Is anyone aware of a later statement on the sighting by Stokes? 2) What happened to Stokes? Did he retire from White Sands? Is he still around? 3) Does anyone have information on his earlier sighting? On 6 November 1957 about 11:20 p. m. EST, Olden J. Moore, a plasterer, was returning home when he saw a flattened spherical object with a conical projection on top descend toward a field [here there are reports of EME on the car which are wrong]. He watched the object for some time. Then, got out of the car and walked toward it. He heard a humming or ticking sound. He decided to leave the scene and get another witness. When he returned with his wife the object was gone. Above normal radiation levels at the site were found by the local Civil Defense shortly after the sighting. Other people reported sightings that night. Mrs. Moore contacted the sheriff. Moore was later interviewed by the sheriff, the press, Kenneth Locke, the local Civil Defense Director, and LTC (later COL) Friend of Project Blue Book. Plaster casts of the landing marks were made by a NICAP adviser. It later leaked out that Moore had been taken to Washington, D. C. for questioning. Moore would not immediately confirm this story. In 1961 Don Berliner, later a NICAP official, interviewed Moore. Moore said about two weeks after the sighting he had been taken to Youngstown AFB, Ohio, then, to Wright-Patterson AFB and flown to an airbase near Washington, D. C. At Washington D. C., he was interviewed in the basement of what might have been the U. S. Court House. He was given a brief tour of the historic and other sights while in Washington, D. C. His interview was more like asking for corroboration of what was already know. On the third day he was required to sign a statement that he would not tell anyone where he had been. Then, he was returned home. The later released interview of LTC Friend's questioning sounds much like Moore's description of his Washington, D. C. experience. Friend goes into a long description of bolide or other common object and asks Moore if that is what he saw. Questions on Moore are similar to the ones for Stokes: 1) Have there been other interviews or newspapers stories on Moore? Or Kenneth Locke? Or Sheriff Robussky? 2) Is Moore still around? Best regards, Jan Aldrich Project 1957
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: PUFORI UFO News 1 Part 2 From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 17:41:05 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 18:50:15 -0400 Subject: Re: PUFORI UFO News 1 Part 2 >Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 16:00:27 +0100 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: PUFORI UFO News 1 Part 2 >> Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 01:43:14 +0930 >> From: ASIUS <asius@mindless.com> [Mike Stahl] >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: PUFORI UFO News 1 Part 2 >> G'day all! >> I have just spent a most frustrating time attempting to view the >> graphics attached to the report "The CIA's Role in the Study of >> UFOs - 1947-90 at: >> http://www.odci.gov/csi/97unclas/ufo.html >Hi Mike, >Are you sure about the above URL? I tried to bring it up and got a NOT >FOUND. >Don Ledger They've changed their site and you have to go to http://www.odci.gov/csi/ and select "Studies in Intelligence", then "On-Line Publications", then "Semianual Edition #1, 1997" which will take you to the publication in question. It appears that the graphics used were not compressed and some are over 400 KB in size. I would note that while I think Haines' study has drawn broad conclusions based on little evidence (which is something this genre should [at times] relate to), I did find a number of articles on this site that can show the type of mindset that exists at the CIA. There was one interesting study that dealt with the problem of dealing with Congress when there are secret plans/projects involved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 17:55:35 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 18:52:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention >Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 22:54:49 -0400 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention >To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net> [text deleted] >The seminal work on the field is suggested to be Shockley's "Electrons >and Holes in Semiconductors", which on page 35 notes, "An important >discovery of Bardeen and Brattain was that, when the input point is >biased for forward current flow, it become surrounded by an area of >interaction; if the output point is placed within this area, the input >current controls the output current in such a way that power gain >results". >This begins to set out the development of Shockley, Bardeen and >Brattain's research, exactly what we were looking for. >The original paper on the development of the transistor is apparently: >J. Bardeen and W.H. Brattain, "Physical Principles Involved in >Transistor Action", Phys. Rev. 75, 1208-1225 (1949). >I should be able to obtain copies of both. That's easily done, but by it's very nature it's written from a perspective that would have to suspect if one is to accept the concept of "seeding". We can research the historical record forever, but it is unlikely that one would find reference to information that came out of no where, since that would have probably cause the Journal reviewers to send it back. Even if they had received "hints" on their research, they would have had to perform the same tests and experiments to confirm the alleged properties and those would be the subject of any publication on the subject. It would be interesting to speak with some of those involved in the actual research, but since that was over 50 years ago, we face the same problem as Roswell researchers who are now dealing with a dwindling number of witnesses to the truth (whatever it was).
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Sims and Leir: Sincere? From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 18:24:34 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 19:04:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Sims and Leir: Sincere? >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 15:48:19 -0400 >Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 16:20:41 -0400 >Subject: Re: Statement from Ray Santilli > Sims should have disclosed the results of > his implant research to those from whom he removed them, > but I don't know what type of legal arrangements had been > made prior to the surgery, and they may give Sims total > control over the information (which in hindsight shouldn't > have been signed, if that's the case). Wonder if they gave copies of those signed documents to the people who had the implants removed (if any paperwork was signed)? Here's a flashback of what Sims and Leir had to say a little over a year ago about their procedures: >From CNI News Sept 1, 1996 SIMS & LEIR RESPOND TO QUESTIONS ON IMPLANT REMOVAL [The following text was faxed on August 31 to the ISCNI office by Derrel Sims and Dr. Roger Leir. It was titled "Response From Derrel and Dr. Leir Regarding Alien Implants And the Collection Of Physical Evidence" and is "an open letter to Michael Lindemann" intended for distribution to readers of the Flash. The text has been slightly edited.] It has come to our attention that numerous questions have been raised regarding the work we have been doing in the collection of physical evidence for the verification of the abduction phenomena. We would like the opportunity to address some of these issues. To begin, let us update your readers with the true picture of progress that has been made to date. First of all, we have performed only a limited number of six surgeries. The reason for this has to do with the strict protocols and criteria that we have established. These entities have not only been reviewed by our own board of directors [Fund for Interactive Research in Space Technology -- FIRST] but have met the extreme standards of the National Institute of Discovery Science [NIDS, headed by Robert Bigelow]. This prestigious organization has agreed to fund our work in part, and adds its own expertise to the quality of the findings. The procedures we developed were not only responsive to the needs of our [abduction] subjects [and] the Ufological community, but also to the established scientific community. We will continue to redefine our procedures with reference to all physical and ethical requirements. All those well meaning folks out there who think they have a clue about our written procedures, including the CRITERIA and PROTOCOL MANUALS that we have developed, are totally living on another planet. This material is kept locked in a safe place along with other analytical data. We recently were presented a copy of a set of so-called criteria and rules pertaining to implant removal that someone had placed into cyberspace. All we could do is raise a giant belly laugh. Evidently someone is perpetrating some sort of a juvenile hoax on an unsuspecting ABDUCTEE PUBLIC in the name of medical science. I hope that this will help set the record straight. For all those that might think we are part of this project, please let us state categorically for the record that NO doctors, surgeons, neuropsychologists, psychiatrists, gynecologists or other medical or scientific personnel involved with F.I.R.S.T. have any knowledge of this other project. We also have recently read in ISCNI*FLASH the account of one of our most revered patients, Mr. Pat Parrinello. We considered it to be an open and honest interview. Pat stated without hesitation his beliefs in relation to the implant removal experience that he had just been through. We have encouraged all of our surgical candidates that want to participate in a public forum, to always be candid and present their personal side of the story. This is the substance of true scientific research. We would like to interject the fact that Pat's experience is still ongoing, and the final outcome will probably not be recognized for some time to come. This also holds true for any of the other surgical candidates. There has been a number of ludicrous comments that have come to our attention, which have appeared on the internet. If some of these individuals would take the time to read state law, learn the facts, inquire about how true scientific research is performed, and put things into a realistic perspective, many of these issues would be put to rest. For example: comments made in reference to the so called OWNERSHIP of [excised] implants. First of all, don't you think that it is a little premature for someone to be concerned about the ownership of an object that has not been determined to be anything but a substance that is just plain ALIEN TO THE HUMAN ORGANISM? With regard to ownership, if I, in the capacity of a surgeon, placed a metallic fixation device in a patient's bone and five years hence decided to remove it, who do you think would be its rightful owner? Continuing with this train of thought: If we do find a credible "IMPLANT" of alien origin, would it not belong, then, to the Alien Being that actually installed it in the first place? Let's get serious. The ownership of such a device truly belongs to humanity at large. We are only the temporary guardians or curators. There should be absolutely no private exploitation as some have suggested. Recently, we discussed this issue with a number of credible alleged abductees and they were asked about their own personal experiences with possible implants that had either come out of their body or had been purposely removed. By and large, they all seemed to have one problem in common. They either lost them, improperly stored them, or had them stolen -- the net result being total loss of scientific evidence and knowledge for mankind. I wonder if anyone of your readers thinks this is the true path for the pursuit of knowledge. In reference to our supposed mass solicitation for implant removal [subjects], NOTHING could be farther from the truth. In fact the opposite is the reality of the situation. If we receive one hundred possible inquiries about the removal of these objects, approximately only one of these may even be a viable candidiate. Our goals in this study are: 1. To remove suspect anomalous objects at only the request of the experiencer. 2. To perform this in the most scientific and careful manner. 3. To preserve the specimen under the most favorable conditions for immediate study, or for future examinations under conditions which take advantage of technology which has not been developed yet. 4. To maintain the anonymity of the [experiencer], the professionals, and the involved organizations. The names would only be exposed with the expressed permission of the involved parties. 5. To act as a clearing house and in the capacity of a curator for all obtained physical evidence, not just alleged implants. 6. To scientifically investigate this physical evidence by using the best of possible laboratories available to us. 7. To disseminate this knowledge, first through recognized scientific channels, and finally to the public at large. We hope that this letter will answer some of the questions posed. Sincerely, Derrel Sims & Dr. Leir
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 DISPATCH #67 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope From: ParaScope@AOL.COM Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 18:46:38 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 19:27:28 -0400 Subject: DISPATCH #67 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope DISPATCH #67 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope S O M E T H I N G S T R A N G E I S H A P P E N I N G 9/7/97 Quotes of the Week "To me death is not a fearful thing. It's living that's cursed..'' --Jim Jones, Jonestown, Guyana, 11/18/78 "It's funny the way most people love the dead. Once you are dead, you are made for life." --Jimi Hendrix -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Rant of the Week: "Koo-Koo Ka Choo, Mr. Roberson" Every week we pick the wackiest, scariest, nastiest or funniest rant from the hundreds of letters received by us here at ParaScope headquarters, and present it to you as our Rant of the Week. This week, ostensibly in response to our article on Rev. Pat Robertson calling for the stoning of UFO enthusiasts, "Francis" writes to us, presuming we have a direct connection the mysterios "Mr. Roberson." Enjoy! "Dear Mr. Roberson I think tyouy belong to a secret scoiety called the Trilatgeral Commission and you know where they ot their insignia from one of the ufo ailen federations aliances so maby you netter put youir self no. one on the hit list. Tell me Mr. Trilateralist just what did Yashua say to Peter when he wanted to call lightning down on those who didn't follow the Gosple If You knkow that then how and what dose that make you ? You call your self a christian well I call you a murderer and as John says no murder has the love of Yahveh in him" [Reprinted with spelling and grammar goofs unchanged. Names changed to protect the ranters.] -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Fifty Years of the CIA September, 1947: the Central Intelligence Agency is born, tasked with conducting the covert programs of the United States. It's been a half-century since the CIA was formed in the wake of World War II and under the growing chill of the Cold War. In the years that followed, the CIA became notorious around the world, for assassination plots, subversion campaigns, mind control experiments and other hidden abuses But after five decades, what do America's citizens know about an agency that operates in unprecedented secrecy, often without oversight, and with a budget so large and poorly documented that no one knows how much money it spends? ParaScope has gathered together the most comprehensive collection of documents, reports and comentary ever assembled in cyberspace. Check out our exhaustive collection of exclusive material on the Central Intelligence agency and learn perhaps more than you care to know about the 50-year history of this mysterios organization. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Coming Up Next Week! Catch all these stories next week on a daily basis on America Online, or all at once next Thursday on the web site! Conspiracy Newsline: All the News That Doesn't Fit If you 're not paranoid by now, you must not be paying attention. Start paying attention and get your daily updates on everything that's out to get you, courtesy of Conspiracy Newsline. ---------------- MLK Assassination Update The James Earl Ray case continues to evolve rapidly in the waning days of the accused assassin's life. An organ transplant specialist recently determined that Ray has six months to live, if Tennessee authorities do not allow him to have a liver transplant operation. The specialist also offered the first public explanation for Ray's cirhossis of the liver: He contracted hepatitis C during a blood transfusion after he was stabbed 20 times by fellow inmates at Brushy Mountain prison. Meanwhile, Dexter King, son of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., has called for justice after a Tennessee appeals court puts a halt to Judge Brown's investigation of the civil rights leader's assassination. Get the latest facts in this rapidly developing case. ---------------- The Jonestown Genocide When the stories of the Jonestown "mass suicides" first started filtering out of the jungles of Guyana, people were shockec and horrified that close to 1,000 people could take their own lives as part of a religious ritual. But is there another, more shocking story that holds the truth of what really happened? Robert Sterling explores the possibility that Jonestown was a secret lab for CIA experiments in mind control, and that a mass killing was the only way to cover up the horrific reality of what happened. The startling connections and stunning "coincidences" behind the Jonestown Genocide will forever change the way you view that shocking event! ---------------- Radio Mogadishu 2: Infowar Boogaloo During Operation Restore Hope the United Nations made a phyrric attempt to restore "order" to the tumult in Somalia (and restore oil profits to four U.S. petroleum companies who had signed deals with Somali President Saide Barre before he was overthrown). In the middle of the operation, several bloody confrontations broke out after U.N. forces seized Radio Mogadishu, an incident which was examined at length in the DoD study "Information Warfare in Multilateral Peace Operations." Radio Mogadishu was ultimately an infowar skirmish, because Gen. Mohamed Aidid used the station to broadcast information that was critical of the U.N. operation. As far as the DoD was concerned, this criticism was unwarranted. But the Village Voice cast an entirely new light on the U.N.'s Somalia operation, when it printed photos in its June 24 edition showing atrocious brutality by U.N. "peacekeepers" against Somali citizens. One photo shows Belgian troops burning a Somali child over an open fire; another shows U.N. soldiers forcing a child to drink salt water, vomit and worms. So, were the Radio Mogadishu broadcasts really "unwarranted"? Were attacks by Aidid's troops truly "unprovoked"? ParaScope presents an update on the Radio Mogadishu skirmish, showing how this infowar engagement was re-enacted as if according to a script in Bosnia recently. ---------------- Stare Struck: Testing the Psychic Sensation of Being Watched "You lookin' at me? You lookin' at ME?" Everyone has experienced that spooky feeling that you're being watched, but is it evidence of ESP? Wacky scientist Rupert Sheldrake, pioneer of the "morphic field" theory of metaphysical connections between all living things, has collected test data indicating that some people are correctly able to identify when an unseen observer is looking at them. Has Sheldrake uncovered evidence of a paranoid-friendly sixth sense, or do his experiments suffer from unscientific oversights? Enigma editor D. Trull sees if there's more to this phenomenon than meets the eye. ---------------- The Diana Conspiracy Ne'er hath the world seen such a spontaneous frenzy of grieving as that which surrounds the death of Princess Diana. And as all good paranoids know, NO ONE dies by accident. Within hours of the news that Diana was dead, conspiracy theories began springing from the fertile ground moistened by the world's tears. After all, Dodi Fayed, who died with Lady Diana, is a cousin of Adnan Khashoggi, the CIA asset who helped Oliver North arrange covert arms sales to Iran. And word has it that Pont de l'Alma, site of Diana's death, was a pagan sacrifical site in pre-Christian times -- tying her death to a deep spectrum of weird occult "coincidences." Even Libyan leader Moamer Kadhafi threw out a conspiracy theory of his own: that British and French secret service agents arranged the "accident" to prevent Diana from "marrying an Arab." Do these allegations have any veracity? Or is it just a slightly more schizoid form of grieving? Is a Diana assassination conspiracy believable, or B.S.? -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing! Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway? Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe yourself from Dispatch: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch That's all there is to it! Likewise, to unsubscribe: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch ---------------------------------------- ParaScope 11288 Ventura Blvd., #904 Studio City, CA 91604 America Online -- keyword: parascope parascope@aol.com World-Wide Web -- http://www.parascope.com info@parascope.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Behind American Computer Co. - Addendum 4 From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 17:22:26 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 23:02:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Behind American Computer Co. - Addendum 4 > From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) > Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 12:50:22 -0700 > Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 00:30:19 -0400 > Subject: Re: Behind American Computer Co. - Addendum 4 > Here are some more tidbits of information I've come accross on the ACC > investigation. A reporter named Jan Howe from Chancellor Media > Broadcasting Co. (Philidelphia) interviewed the president of ACC this > morning at 9:00 am EST and is planning on interviewing him again at > 5:00pm. Apparently Ms. Howe also interviewed Corso awhile back. The VP > informed me that the president divulged the nature of his relationahip > with the witness. It goes like this: The VP gave me the wrong name here. The reporter's name is not Jan Howe it's "Linda" Howe as in Linda Moulton Howe. (I didn't know who Jan was either). Check Dreamland 9/7/97 for her report. Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Sims and Leir: Sincere? From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 17:22:20 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 23:06:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Sims and Leir: Sincere? >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 18:24:34 -0400 (EDT) >To: UpDates@globalserve.net >Subject: Sims and Leir: Sincere? >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >>Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 15:48:19 -0400 >>Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 16:20:41 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Statement from Ray Santilli >There has been a number of ludicrous comments that have come to our >attention, which have appeared on the internet. If some of these >individuals would take the time to read state law, learn the facts, >inquire about how >true scientific research is performed, and put things into a realistic >perspective, many of these issues would be put to rest. >For example: comments made in reference to the so called OWNERSHIP of >[excised] implants. First of all, don't you think that it is a little >premature for someone to be concerned about the ownership of an object that >has not been determined to be anything but a substance that is just plain >ALIEN TO THE HUMAN ORGANISM? >Sincerely, >Derrel Sims & Dr. Leir No, Derrell and Roger, I *don't* think this conversation is ludicrous. The article they are referring to, regarding legal ownership of removed alien (or probable alien) implants, was written by Katharina Wilson and resulted from a questionaire/study she conducted along with Peter Davenport. This was an extremely worthwhile conversation and also ventured into related issues like, "Who owns alien fetuses while they are still in the womb?" At some point in the future these issues may become extremely relevant and we would do well to have our ducks in a row before the controversy heats up. You can find a copy of Katharina's article at: http://www.alienjigsaw.com/implant.html Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 20:22:32 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 23:13:40 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >From: nick@emailme.at.address.below (Nick Humphries) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 15:40:10 GMT >No offence, Linda, but it seems to me that it was Budd Hopkins that first >"outed" you in public, and without your permission as well. Yet you still >claim that it was the dastardly debunkers who did it. >Which would you consider more serious: a photograph of you published and >declared as being an abductee (so _anyone_, who knows you or otherwise, will >now instantly recoginise who you are and what your claims are), or someone >revealing your real surname (in which case only those that know you will make >the connection)? >I would say that the photograph would be more damaging, and Hopkins is to >blame for that. The photographs came before the revelation of the surname, >therefore I can only conclude that Hopkins was ultimately responsible for >throwing you into the limelight. >It appears that you'd rather blame it all on debunkers instead of the >primary proponent - I wonder why? I would suggest that photographs of subjects are often included in psychological journal articles if they are relevent to the topic, and rarely (if ever) are their real names used. In the long run a photograph would only alert those who know the person as to their involvement, not the entire world. It might be argued that one is more likely to get "grief" from someone you know (as opposed to a complete stranger), but I can find out a lot more about a person with their name and location, as opposed to a photograph. Linda's real name wasn't even mentioned at the MIT Abduction Conference, where Hopkins used it as an example of an independantly witnessed abduction, even though the real names of several others were. If memory serves, it wasn't Linda that began this discussion on UpDates this time around. We have been focusing on the propriety of preserving the anonymity of "experiencers" who allow their stories to be told, not trying to lay blame on how Linda's name was made public. Linda has apparently come to terms with the manner in which that occurred. I would agree that "Linda Cortile" was in the spotlight prior to her real name being revealed, however, a vast majority of those seeing the picture with that name attached would have assumed that it was her real name. On the other hand, Hopkins is ultimately responsible for the release of the name since he was the researcher directly involved and had control (or at least should have) of the information. This doesn't mean circumstances beyond his control could not occur, and it appears that is exactly what happened. Linda, meanwhile, has laid blame elsewhere when taking those "circumstances" into account.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 22:33:10 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 23:19:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 > Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 15:38:34 -0400 (EDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 > >Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 15:48:42 +0100 > >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 > >> I checked and found an article about lights being sighted > >> outside of town at night. > >Hello Mike, Jan and List > >A thought here. I might be wrong about airships and dirigables but > >during the years after 1903 and well afterwards, lights on airplanes was > >a luxury in expense and weight that could not be afforded. I'm almost > >certain that electric lights on airships of the periods mentioned from > >1894 etc. up until the early 20s would have been forbidden due to the > >danger of spark induced explosions. Generators were spark prone and > >spark free switches were virtually unknown for battery operation. That > >left gas operated lights and I'm sure they would have been even more of > >a hazard on hydrogen filled airships. > >Aircraft on the other hand did not begin to employ lights until the mid > >twenties on commercial passenger carriers. Generators, voltage > >regulators and batteries on smaller aircraft were a weight penalty > >luxury not deemed necessary where engines were already overweight and > >underpowered and adding a generator would load those same engines down > >robbing badly needed horsepower. > There were also carbide and oil lamps in use at that time. Not in any airplane before the twenties, at least that's my take on the info. I'm a pilot and an airplane buff anyway. I've seen alot of antiques in my day and recall seeing nothing in the way of lighting systems in the machines of the teens and twenties. I have no doubt that airships had the room but suspect some type of low level lights strictly for cabin purposes during the bombing raids over London during WW I. Carbide lights would imply generators for the high current, and oil lights in a hydrogen filled gas bag sounds doubtful to me. What I'm saying is if any of these sightings of airships from 1894 til say 1910 or 1915 reported brilliant lights as are the case nowadays, then you could rule out the manmade versions in use at that time. The power was just not there. When you considered the instruments in use then, everything was either magnetic, pneumatic, dynamic pressured or gravity dependent. In the open cockpit the pilot relied on the wind on his/her cheek for slip information and the seat of the pants for a lot of other things. If you want to eliminate man made airships as possible reasons for UFO sightings that far back, then I think this is one reason to eliminate many of them. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy From: meccam@erols.com [Melanie Mecca] Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 21:20:09 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 23:23:34 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy > From: William.Hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com > Date: Friday, 29 August 1997 10:48am MT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOR: USAF Spec. > >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 10:08:09 +0200 > >From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: UFO UpDate: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy > >From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) [Col. Steve Wilson] > >Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 15:35:18 -0700 > >Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 09:30:09 -0400 > >Subject: Re: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy > > Note: I want to answer this one, although I seldom do, being > >that I have to defend nothing. First, I have sent Hamilton and > >Boylan copies of my DD-214 "for their eyes only" since I HAVE > >been working with them. > >OK, well that's simple: Bill and Rich, can you confirm if > >Steve Wilson has provided you with the specified document. > >I'm not asking for the content, just verification. > >That should settle this thread.... > >Jakes E. Louw > I have received the above document in the mail from the Colonel > as promised and have filed it. > Sincerely, > Bill Hamilton Hey, Bill you "filed it?" When are you going to write about what's in it, if ever? Tantalizing as hell, when're we gonna get a taste? Melanie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: Sims and Leir: Sincere? From: XianneKei@aol.com [Rebecca Schatte] Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 23:44:14 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 00:31:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Sims and Leir: Sincere? From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 17:22:20 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 23:06:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Sims and Leir: Sincere? > No, Derrell and Roger, I *don't* think this conversation is ludicrous. I don't think it is ludicrous either. I just added that to remind us these guys will say just about anything. > This was an extremely worthwhile conversation > You can find a copy of Katharina's article at: > http://www.alienjigsaw.com/implant.html Yep, I agree again. We published that on this List last year [ From: RSchatte@aol.com ] [ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 17:21:42 -0400 ] [ To: UFO UpDates <ebk@nobelmed.com> ] [ Subject: Ownership and Possession of alleged "implants" ] [ ] [ - ebk ] when it first came about. I appreciate all the work that Katharina has done for abductees. Rebecca >From: RSchatte@aol.com >Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 17:21:42 -0400 >To: ebk@nobelmed.com >Subject: Ownership and Possession of alleged "implants" Search for other documents from or mentioning: xiannekei | turel33 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 8 CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS - 22 Years of MUFON Symposium From: Francis Ridge <slk@WORLD.EVANSVILLE.NET> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 08:06:30 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 09:33:47 -0400 Subject: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS - 22 Years of MUFON Symposium UFO FILTER CENTER For Sale: 22 MUFON UFO Symposium Proceedings. 1986-1994 mint condition. 1972-1985, good condition, but punched und unbound. $150 total. USA only. Can be purchased as individual SYPAPS at $13 each. Includes Priority Mail shipping (U.S. only). contact: Francis Ridge slk@world.evansville.net 618 Davis Drive Mt. Vernon, IN 47620
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: Sims and Leir: Sincere? From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 02:06:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 09:39:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Sims and Leir: Sincere? >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 18:24:34 -0400 (EDT) >To: UpDates@globalserve.net >Subject: Sims and Leir: Sincere? >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >>Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 15:48:19 -0400 >>Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 16:20:41 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Statement from Ray Santilli >> Sims should have disclosed the results of >> his implant research to those from whom he removed them, >> but I don't know what type of legal arrangements had been >> made prior to the surgery, and they may give Sims total >> control over the information (which in hindsight shouldn't >> have been signed, if that's the case). >Wonder if they gave copies of those signed documents to the people who had >the implants removed (if any paperwork was signed)? >Here's a flashback of what Sims and Leir had to say a little over a year ago >about their procedures: >>From CNI News Sept 1, 1996 >SIMS & LEIR RESPOND TO QUESTIONS ON IMPLANT REMOVAL (snip) >To begin, let us update your readers with the true picture of progress >>that has been made to date. And after two years we're still waiting! Pat if you're reading this, could you post some of the info we exchanged regarding the number of samples and how they were handled and labeled. The report from NIDS amounts to nothing more than 'scientific esperanto' and according to those who _do_ understand it, the materials were prepared for study in a manner that would cause unecessary waste and damage to the "implant'. According to these same sources there were problems with the analysis itself (as performed by NIDS) that needed answering and resolving. None of which has been done or followed up on. It's our own damn fault. These guys should be held accountable and they're not! Instead, everyone publishes their every move and whatever 'new project' they may be into and 'old business' gets lost in the shuffle. The public does indeed have a short memory, and I'm sure slicksters like Sims play that to their advantage. The "implants" that were surgically recovered two years ago is a perfect example of this. If we weren't discussing the topic in this thread very few (other than the abductees who were subjected to the surgery) would even be thinking about it. That's a shame. It's the reason why people like Sims & Lier get away with so much BS and are in fact invited to speak and give interviews as if they were 'doing the job' they said they were gonna do. In my neck of the woods if you can't 'deliver' they fire your ass post haste and give someone else a shot at it. Why are these nonproductive clowns treated like celebrities? I don't get it. >First of all, we have performed only a limited number of six surgeries. And every living ass of them should file a lawsuit demanding the results of the testing on the objects that were removed from their bodies, and the "implants" themselves. I don't know what the laws or legalities invoved are, but the post surgical abductees should sue both their asses. I would be among the first to contribute a few bucks to legal fund set up for that purpose. >The reason for this has to do with the strict protocols and criteria that >we have established. Which are? Mumbo-jumbo, fast talking BS intended to 'keep em quiet for a while.' Growing up in NY and being exposed to just about every type of hustle, hustler, flim-flam, and con artist imaginable allows you to have 'heard it all' at least once by the time you reach the ripe old age of 18.. Sims has a 'minor-league rap' compared to some of the pro's I've heard. But it's the same rap! Just rap. Want some speculation based on 48 years of street smarts? Sims and Lier recruited the abductees, performed the surgeries, and then sold the recovered "implants" to Bob Bigelow for big bucks. How's that for a "plausible scenario?" My "theory" makes a lot more sense based on their own track record, than believing/assuming that these two slick mouthed hucksters are legit. >These entities have not only been reviewed >by our own board of directors [Fund for Interactive Research in Space >Technology -- FIRST] but have met the extreme standards of the National >Institute of Discovery Science [NIDS, headed by Robert Bigelow]. This >prestigious organization has agreed to fund our work in part, and adds its >own expertise to the quality of the findings. This is a joke. FIRST is Sims' own group. NIDS is Bob Bigelow. Big fish eat little fish. Bigelow being the richer of the two is probably calling all of the shots. Bigelow has been buying and hoarding all of the information on UFO's and aliens that he can and he's been doing it for years. NONE OF IT EVER SEES THE LIGHT OF DAY AGAIN. Why,...I don't know, you'd have to ask Mr Bigelow. I just don't like it that once again people are treated as a 'commodity' and nothing is done about it. The 'perps' get away with it once again. Let's demand some accountability from these bozos before anyone else spends another dime at one of their lectures or other public appearances. If I had an anti-christ to Bigelow willing to fund me I'd follow them wherever they were booked to speak and loudly demand answers from them ad nausium until they gave us some! I am an abductee. I _know_ what Pat and the others have been through and all of the attendant crap that has to be worked through, it's not easy. Because of that we are kind of like 'brothers under the skin' so to speak and whatever happens to them, happens to me. I stand _with them_ come hell or high water. Mr Sims,... all I have is words, but I will hurl them at you like spears until you are held accountable for the results of those six surgeries. That information belongs to the world, whether fer or agin. We have a right to know. This is something that could eventually involve every living ass on the planet. Our little grey friends are very busy while we all screw around wasting valuable time like the passengers on the 'ship of fools'. John Velez, Abductee Union Rep. John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 8 UK UFO Magazine - 'Chile announces UFOs are for From: Ndunlks@aol.com (by way of curator <erik@crossfields.com>) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 01:33:32 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 09:42:20 -0400 Subject: UK UFO Magazine - 'Chile announces UFOs are for To ufo list. _____________________________________________________________________________ --------------------- Forwarded message: From: deeaob@admin.itol.com (UFO Sky Searchers International) To: (Mailing List 1)@mrin79 Date: 97-09-05 10:12:15 EDT ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 19:36:17 -0700 From: "Sandy ..." To: deeaob@admin.itol.com Subject: [Fwd: [*STAR*] Chile Announces UFOs are for REAL!!] Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 22:27:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970827222133_-499880931@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: starfriends Subject: [*STAR*] Chile Announces UFOs are for REAL!! Date: 4th August 1997 Source: UFO Magazine Date: July/August 1997 Chile announces UFOs are for real On 2nd April 1997, Chilean newspaper 'La Cuarta' published the following headline 'UFO Sighting of Arica is Confirmed by La Direccion General de Aeronautic Civil'. Luis Sanchez, Chilean Director of Skywatch International said this was the first time such an organization had attached it's name to such a statement. La Direccion General de Aeronautic Civil said that they publicly recognised that Chile was experiencing UFO sightings and that the phenomenon was real, not meteorotic or climatic. Sanchez said that the statement was due to the 'high quality' of an observation made by control tower staff at Chacalluta International Airport in Africa, the northernmost city in Chile. On Monday, 31st March, 1997, at 12.55am, three UFOs were seen by staff in the control tower and recorded on radar. They were tracked at speeds up to 8,000 mph. According to the eyewitnesses, over the Pacific Ocean, near Morro de Arica and remained there for two hours. At about 3.00am, the objects "flew away at very high speed," heading for the Andes. Airport director Julio Schettner said the UFOs hovered "at an altitude between 3,000 and 4,500 metres and emitted blue, red, green and yellow lights which made them clearly visible to the naked eye." Schettner added, "In our tower, it was not possible to track them on radar, so we contacted control towers in (Arequipa) Peru and Santiago (de Chile). None of them had flights registering in Arica at that moment." Schettner said "he had been doubtful about the existence of UFOs, but not any more," adding that they left Arica "at an astonishing speed." On Wednesday 2nd April 1997, the Direccion General de Aeronautica Civil (DGAC), Chile's civilian aeronautical ministry, announced that the three UFOs in Arica had been confirmed on radar, DGAC radar and Fuerzas Aereas de Chile (FACh) Air Force radar tracked the Arica UFOs "travelling at speeds of up to 12,800 kilometres (8,000 miles) per hour." In the capital, Santiago de Chile, a DGAC spokesman said, "Chile is experiencing OVNIs" (Spanish acronym for UFO). uk.ufo.nw asks: Do any of our Chilean readers have further information on this. Perhaps newspaper reports etc that could be translated, typed and e-mailed to the usual address. Visit UFO Magazines world wide web address address for full subscription information: http://www.ufomag.co.uk ************************************************************ This message posted by: ExposeUFOs@aol.com ************************************************************ Send "subscribe starfriends <e-mail address>" to majordomo@esosoft.com to subscribe. For a digest version, send "subscribe starfriends-digest <e-mail address>" to the same address. Change the above to unsubscribe to leave. ************************************************************ Starfriends Site is at: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/3870/ ************************************************************ ***UFO Sky Searchers International**** Founder Billy Dee P.O.Box 322 Maplewood, Wis. 54226 Phone 1-920-825-7349 Call Mon - Sat. 12 noon to 9 pm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli From: Neil Morris <Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 11:37:49 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 09:43:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli > Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 15:53:57 -0400 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli > Results from one piece of "film" has been released, but why would anyone > put any effort into testing a strip of film that, by definition, is a copy > of the original and the real thing. The strip of "film" given to Sims is > apparently from the same stock as that given to Philip Mantle, which was a > copy and didn't contain images of the "alien", so we don't even know if > it's relevent to the discussion. Hi Steve, Hi all. I would like to put a point wherein even a copy print showing the body could help give a valid "time frame" for the AA film. But I would like first to put a technical point to Bob. Bob, am I right in saying that the safty print film used in copies is quite a slow speed film, ie not a sensitive as the original ?, and would this effect it's storage properties, would it fog at the same type of rate as higher speed camera film?. Depending on the replies to the above, should the copy film(with image) prove to be of early vintage under analysis can we infer that the film from which the print was made be contempary with the print film under test?. To summerise, if the print(with AA image) can be verified as being of 1947 +-3 or 4 years, the film from which the image was taken MUST be dated at or before the latest date the print film could be said to be usable. So Bob what can be said for Kodak Safty Print film. Best Regards Neil. -- * * * * * * * * Neil Morris. /101101101 Virtual Bumper Stickers Inc 10110101010\ Dept of Physics. 1 1 Univ of Manchester 0 0 Schuster Labs. 1 Computer Programmers DO IT with BITS of BYTES 1 Brunswick St. 0 0 Manchester. 1 1 UK. \0101010110010110110010110101101011011110101011010/ G8KOQ E-mail: neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk Roswell and Alien Autopsy Archive-> http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/ Dave Willetts Home Page-> http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/dave_willetts/ * * * * * * * *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 09:16:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 09:56:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli >Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 15:53:57 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli Steve, I think it is pretty obvious from their statement that Sims and Leir got involved in this three-year-old tar pit without a ghost of an idea of what had already been done. Philip Mantle tells me that he has asked Sims to phone me on several occasions to that I could bring him up to speed on things, and I would happily have done so, but I have never heard from the man. According to both Reg Presley and Philip Mantle, the film that Sims and Leir have is some clips from the "junk reel" and one piece from the same strip that Mantle, Kiviat and I have had scraps of for some time. Absolutely nothing could be accomplished by any tests of this film. It is copy film, it is not demonstrably connected to the autopsy footage, and it is, therefore, useless. But what I find even weirder is the invention of a mythical birthday party!!! Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention From: "WHITE" <mjawhite@digitaldune.net> [John White] Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 06:58:23 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 09:57:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention > Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 17:55:35 -0400 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention > >The seminal work on the field is suggested to be Shockley's "Electrons > >and Holes in Semiconductors", which on page 35 notes, "An important > >discovery of Bardeen and Brattain was that, when the input point is >snip > >The original paper on the development of the transistor is apparently: > > >J. Bardeen and W.H. Brattain, "Physical Principles Involved in > >Transistor Action", Phys. Rev. 75, 1208-1225 (1949). To List: There is an "in-house" piece written by W. Schockley: "The Theory of P-N Junctions in Semiconductors and P-N Junction Transistors" Bell System Technical Journal 28:436 (1949), which predates "Electrons and Holes" by about two years. The invention of one type of transistor, the point-contact type, is credited to Baardeen and Brattain for post-WWII work they did under Schockley at Murray Hill (Bell Labs) prior to the work's announcement in 1948. Question: Assuming secrecy and war concerns, et al., as preventing disclosure of research during the war years, surely Bell's in-house journals which made the rounds during 1949, and the invention's announcement in 1948, would have referred to, and documented, prior research efforts for independent verification purposes by others, wouldn't you think? For example, C. Kittel, was a solid state physics researcher back in the late 40's early 50's, who authored at least one text-book on solid state physics, in the early 50's, dealing with cystal lattice structures of materials used in transistors, and that kind of stuff doesn't get written overnight, and would necessarily refer to supporting research. It is hard to believe that there is no relevant, precursor research available. Bell Labs' research for the U.S. would be somewhere in Federal archives, if nowhere else, wouldn't it? Negative evidence usually isn't worth much, unless it rules out, in toto, existence of positive evidence. This thread, for any number of reasons, and not the least of which would be simple historical value, bears deeper scrutiny.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:07:12 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 12:34:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli >Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 11:37:49 +0100 >From: Neil Morris <Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> >To: Ufo Updates List <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli >I would like to put a point wherein even a copy print showing the body >could help give a valid "time frame" for the AA film. But I would like >first to put a technical point to Bob. >Bob, am I right in saying that the safty print film used in copies is >quite a slow speed film, ie not a sensitive as the original ?, and >would this effect it's storage properties, would it fog at the same >type of rate as higher speed camera film?. >Depending on the replies to the above, should the copy film(with image) >prove to be of early vintage under analysis can we infer that the film >from which the print was made be contempary with the print film under >test?. >To summerise, if the print(with AA image) can be verified as being of >1947 +-3 or 4 years, the film from which the image was taken MUST be >dated at or before the latest date the print film could be said to be >usable. >So Bob what can be said for Kodak Safty Print film. >Best Regards >Neil. Hi Neil, There is one important point. In 1956-57 Kodak changed their film base material from a type of acetate which would not tolerate high- temperature processing (cellulose acetate propionate) to a type which could be used in a new chemical developing process which used much higher temperatures to shorten processing time. This newer acetate was a tri-acetate, essentially the same as still used today on most motion picture and still film. All we know from Professor Malanga's tests, as I verified personally with him when I saw him in Italy earlier this year, is that this sample film from Santilli is on the older base. So it was made prior to 1957. Now, this film could keep for many years because, as you note, it is very slow (insensitive) copy film, and this sort of film stores well for extended periods even without refrigeration. However, after 1957, the chemical process for this older film was discontinued. So to expose and process this film at a later date would require not only finding pre-1957 copy film in usable condition, but also would require mixing up the older versions of the chemicals from scratch. This is not impossible, since the formulae and raw chemicals can be had, but makes the whole proposition more complicated. One could not simply expose the old print film and carry it in to an ordinary photo lab for processing. Ray Santilli obviously has access to someone who can handle processing of such old film, since the unrelated roll that Mike Hesemann bought from a lady in Roswell was given by him to Ray for processing, and after processing was given to me for forwarding to Kodak who dated the film to 1945. Kodak noted that it had apparently been processed properly. So, all that being said, testing of any sort performed on the copy film will be inconclusive, and will get us nowhere. Professor Malanga has already told us all that can be learned from this film. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Mon, 08 Sep 97 11:04:18 cst Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 12:39:45 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >From: Ted Viens <drtedv@smart1.net> >Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 19:29:47 -0500 >Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 09:54:27 -0400 >Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity Regarding my statements about the wimpishness of the three alleged eyewitnesses in the Linda case, Ted Viens wrote: >Forgive me... If I could explain Vince's position here as some >selfish social ignorance or conniving cultural naivety, I, of course, >would ignore him. But, what is Vince asking here? Based on false >predicates, he is asking Linda and others with experiences to come >forward with no regard to the damage they may do to themselves. >The first false predicate is the call to a moral obligation to >benefit humanity by their testimony. The second false predicate is >that a respected author cannot give anonymity to the subjects of his >study. The third false predicate is equating silence about sightings >with silence about murder. The fourth false predicate is that the >conviction and corroboration of their stories would save the >witnesses from public ridicule and personal damage. Vince wishes us >to believe that a good person coming forward would benefit from his >positions and be rewarded by their actions. Am I missing something >here? Yes, Ted, you are apparently missing my point entirely -- in addition to failing to provide any supporting arguments as to why the "false predicates" are false. And a couple of corrections to your list of false predicates: 1) I never said that witnesses would be rewarded. I said it was a form of civic duty like reporting a murder to the police. 2) The reason that the continuing anonymity of the "eyewitnesses" in the Linda case (which is what we're discussing, not all abductees in general) is counterproductive is due to the significance of the claims being made. I seem to be treating these claims with much more seriousness than you or the alleged participants themselves. What makes the Linda case so unique and potentially important is that it is alleged that a highly credible "world leader" (and the two secret agents) not only observed, but participated in, an alien abduction event. Either the story as presented in "Eyewitnessed" is true and is an event of great cultural, scientific and historic significance or it is false and of no importance whatsoever -- which is how the alleged "eyewitnesses" appear to be treating this incident. If Linda's story is true, any minor short-term annoyances (as she's recounted to this List) would pale in insignificance to the importance of establishing the reality of ET aliens actually coming and going, abducting people from their beds even in densely populated urban areas. Wouldn't you consider this important enough to motivate Linda's "eyewitnesses" to voluntarily suffer the stresses of notoriety and sensationalism in order to confirm this startling new reality? However, we are told, these "eyewitnesses" are too timid to come forward to confirm Linda's tale -- despite the importance of making this paradigm-shifting, world-changing event known; confirming the reality of the abduction phenomenon; and least of all confirming that Linda (whom we are told they have great affection for) didn't make the whole thing up. Given the current lack of the "eyewitnesses"' confirmation, it's easy to dismiss the story (rightly or wrongly) as just being some sort of elaborate sci-fi/romance novel/fantasy/hoax/performance art. It is not "Eyewitnessed" and verified until the eyewitnesses come forward -- on the record and in the affirmative (since Perez de Cuellar is already on the record as denying the incident ever occurred). Until that happens, we're only dealing with hearsay. End of story. No further developments possible. No significance whatsoever. If you believe that Linda's story is true, how can you not grasp the importance of verifying her tale -- and thus, the necessity for the "eyewitnesses" to come forward to provide that verification? >What are we to conclude from these positions Vince takes? The most >innocent conclusion would be that Vince believes these statements and >only desires to bring good to the witnesses and our knowledge of this >issue. Real experiences of others forces us to know that this is an >ignorant position. Vince expresses himself intelligently enough to >prevent me from thinking that he could be this stupid. Other >apparent conclusions have a darker nature. In my view, Vince is >attempting to bait and lure witnesses into public testimony so that >he can see the damage it would do to them. Possibly, he feels a >moral obligation to damage the open discussion of UFOs. Possibly, he >seeks some cruel and selfish pleasure in contributing to the damage a >person could suffer by coming public. I cannot speak for Vince. I >can only discuss my views on his actions. You're getting a bit fringy here, Ted. It is because I do believe that the subject of UFOs is important and worthy of serious inquiry that I can't let inconsistencies and contradictions go unchallenged. If you feel that this makes me a "nattering nabob of negativism" (as you referred to me in an earlier post) so be it. Just remember who coined that phrase and against whom it was originally used. Those nabobs turned out to be right, didn't they? >Let us be honest about the damages a witness could suffer for giving >public testimony. What kind of a working solution can we find for >this problem? This can only be possible if we publicly credit some >researchers with the honest and integrity to study and speak for >anonymous witnesses. From this foundation, we could direct worried >observers to these researchers with a believable promise that they >would be shielded until they felt safe enough to come forward. We >would all benefit from this way of doing things. Divine intervention >will not create the public trust so necessary to allow more >information to come forward. We can only create the authority needed >for this by bringing forward and acknowledging the investigators we >can trust. This is being explored in another thread here and I hope >some results come from it. We all want honest credible researchers. But is there *any* value of *any* UFO research by *any* UFO researcher that didn't result in *any* confirmation of UFO claims -- anonymous or otherwise. Without any attempt at confirmation, such an endeavour could hardly be described as research. >Are you a witness to something very strange? If you are, then you >have a right to know that coming forward publicly can bring some harm >to you and your family. If you wish to contribute your experiences >to further our knowledge and understanding of these things, then it >is completely fair for you to do so anonymously. Perhaps in reading >this group you can get some feel for those investigators you can >trust. Possibly, other threads here will begin to list those people >who we feel you can trust. Come forward wisely and cautiously. >Somehow, I feel that Vince's need to callously label you as "wimps" >will prevent him from being one of your choices... Hiding behind anonymity will never change anything, Ted. Anonymity is all too often the realm of the hoaxers and hucksters. Throughout history people have been persecuted for challenging the popularly accepted status quo version of reality. Theres's one common factor among those who dared to change outdated and obsolete worldviews: courage. We haven't seen much of that from the purported "eyewitnesses" in the Linda case, have we? Regards, Vince (Nattering Nabob of Negativism, 1968-1975) Search for other documents from or mentioning:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:48:19 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 13:04:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous >From: wlmss@peg.apc.org [Lawrie Williams] >Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 21:02:33 +1000 >To: ufo-l@mb.protree.com, updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Zeta Notso Ridiculous. Neanderthals resemble bigfoot???????? And just how would that be? Neanderthals were about the body bulk as modern man, but shorter. Bigfoot is invariably described as MUCH bigger and much taller. There is no evidence that Neanderthals were covered head to toe in long hair. Bigfoot always is. Neanderthals made and used tools. Bigfoot doesn't. This list could go on and on, but saying that Neanderthals resemble Bigfoot is not accurate. BTW, most recent DNA analysis on Neanderthals indicates that they were much more distantly related to us than used to be thought, and apparently not part of our ancestry, not even distantly. Humans and Neanderthals did not interbreed. Bob Search for other documents from or mentioning: 76750.2717 | wlmss |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: Statement from Ray Santilli From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:48:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 13:17:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Statement from Ray Santilli >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 03:38:22 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Statement from Ray Santilli >Well, geez, I no longer have that transcript, but didn't Leir say that >they were only given the film because they promised to give the test >results to Ray Santilli only? >Earl's Court was during the last Bank Holiday, I think. Did anyone on the >list attend and were these results presented? In the interview Leir said >that they had not even started testing yet and that was only a couple weeks >ago. > > I assume Reg passed the film onto Darrell which is fine by me. >Since Ray is handing out film samples to anyone, do you think I could have >one? >Rebecca Yes, that was in the transcript, but Ray remembers nothing of it. He didn't even know who I was talking about when I mentioned Leir and Sims until I also mentioned Reg, and then he recalled these two that Reg had brought along (apparently uninvited and unannounced) to lunch. The Earl's Court conference never took place according to Reg, but he also wanted some film to hold up during a TV appearance, and used this film for that. Could you have a film sample? Dunno. Probably. Just ask Ray. It seems to have been devalued lately. BTW, did you buy Ray a birthday present??? Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: Misleading Information Given to American From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net> Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 10:17:11 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 13:20:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Misleading Information Given to American > From: "the snakester" <snake@mwaz.com> [Desiree Holloway] > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Misleading Information Given to American Computer Co. > Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:20:57 -0700 > ---------- > > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: UFO UpDate: Misleading Information Given to American ComputerCo. > > Date: Friday, September 05, 1997 6:14 AM > > Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 01:12:55 -0800 > > From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net> > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Misleading Information Given to American Computer Co. > > Two days ago I posted an Email whose only content was one simple > > question. "Until the recent postings by Bob Wolfe I was not familiar > > with American Computer Company. Is the size of the company a major > > player or a two person shop?" That was the total content of my post. > He's right, guys. His original letter is archived at UFOMIND's Update > archive under September 2, 1997!:) > Desiree Holloway - (perpetually dumbfounded) > snake@mwaz.com > http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/8701 Desiree, thank you for putting the truth out here and supporting me. This should be the end of it-except for the fact that someone added things to my post and then presented it to the president of ACC. That was unethical and it cast me in a bad light. Thanks for supporting me "snakester". Josh Goldstein
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 8 Second Interview with Sherman now Available From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 10:50:21 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 14:02:14 -0400 Subject: Second Interview with Sherman now Available On July 24, I published an interview with Dan ("D.L") Sherman, who claims to have worked with a secret NSA program receiving communications from alien entities. Readers were invited to send further questions to Sherman, with a cc to me, and I would put them together in another document. The new compendium of email questions and answers is now on-line at http://www.ufomind.com/misc/1997/sep/d08-001.shtml Sherman says his book, "Above Black: Project Preserve Destiny," is now at the printer and should be available in mid-October. He is now accepting orders. See: http://www.earthworld.com/ppd/ (recently moved). For more Ufomind links on Sherman, including the earlier interview, see http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/s/sherman/ Glenn +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | U F O M I N D - M O T H E R S H I P | | "World's Largest and Best Organized UFO Website" * | | *** | | GLENN CAMPBELL - Ship's Captain & Acting Commander ***** | | ******* | | Area 51 Research Center campbell@ufomind.com ********* | | Las Vegas Annex http://www.ufomind.com | +------------------------------------------------------------------+
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:40:27 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 13:40:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/7/97 10:05 AM: > Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 03:05:32 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Zeta Notso Ridiculous [was: UFO Beliefs - > Question for Stan Friedman] > >No reason why that system should be any different, although > >it is believed planets are less likely in a twin star system though > >I see no reason why worlds could not orbit the common centre of > >gravity of *both* stars. > It's something called 'tidal forces.' A planet caught between two stars > would be torn apart repeatedly by the gravitational forces of the two > primaries. There may be some 'rare' instances where a planetary body > has achieved a stable orbit around two (or as some computer models show) > even three primaries. But it is doubtful, the conditions required are very > complicated. The primaries would have to be of the right size, star class, > and distance from each other in order for the right conditions to exist. However, I think it is clear that planetary accretion is unlikely to occur in the first place within such areas. The "Roche Limit" is a boundary beyond which a planet (I believe made of water?) would be torn apart by tides. Objects such as Saturn's rings, which to many represent an area similar to the early stages of the solar neighborhood, never accrete planetoids beyond a certain size due to such tidal effects. So it would be possible to consider that planets in a multiple star system would only form in areas where the tidal forces were such as to allow accretion to occur, and thus would guarantee that the orbits of the resulting bodies would never pass through areas with higher than Roche Limit tidal forces. However, to the best of my knowledge, simulations even of our solar system (single sun) forming planets remain primitive, and no doubt the multiple star case would be even more difficult. At any rate, I think that my best guess is that planets will never form at all in situations where there are no contiguous orbits free of Roche Limit level tides. The question then becomes whether there are such orbits in multiple star systems. I would imagine that that might be a simpler computation than a complete simulation, since it just involves determining whether an orbit can fall into the area not intersected by any of the stars' Roche Limit spheres. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 8 Abductees stories wanted From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:31:27 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 14:15:45 -0400 Subject: Abductees stories wanted Author seeks UFO abductees for upcoming book on paranormal experiences. Will pay $100/week for interview. Randy Dingle 115 - 55 219th Street Cambri Heights, N.Y. New York, USA 11411 (718) 978-8635
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 14:36:55 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 17:08:29 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 01:54:49 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > >From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > >Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 11:10:45 -0500 > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > >> From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] > >> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 12:25:19 PDT > >> To: updates@globalserve.net > >> Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > >> > From: HONEYBE100@aol.com > >> > Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 04:40:42 -0400 (EDT) > >> > To: updates@globalserve.net > >> > Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > >> > >Date: Wed.27 Aug.1997 11:15:09 -0700 > >> > >From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> > >> > >To: UFO UpDatess <updates@globalserve.net> > >> > >Subject: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > >> > Hello everyone! > >> > Scott Hale wrote: > >> > >List, > > >> > >The recent posts regarding Linda Cortile have compelled me to > >> > >share my opinion on this issue. > (enormous snip) > Showme writes, > >Anonymity on a sighting report is not a big deal. But anonymity in a > >case where there is financial gain IS a big deal. > >BB > Hi Barbara, > After reading your comment I suddenly realized how many of my friends > and aquaintances are writers. Do you know many writers Barbara? There > isn't a sorrier lot of hooligans (in terms of financial renumeration) > in all the world. (Large snip) Hello John Velez: You made me think about how many writers I actually do know, in ufology, academia, and as journalists. I must be hangin' with the good ones because they all make money on their writings. There was only one writer I know personally who told me they didn't make any money on their writing and it was Phil Klass. (Anybody who knows Phil, knows I'm telling the truth here!<G>) So go figure. BB Search for other documents from or mentioning: c549597 | jvif | clark |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 8 Russion Documentary Video? From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 05:16:39 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 17:10:28 -0400 Subject: Russion Documentary Video? Dear Colleagues, I am trying to locate a commerically produced video entitled 'UFO TOP SECRET-RUSSIAN MILITARY FOOTAGE'. Can anyone help locate this video or inform me of a company from where I can purchase it. Yours Sincerely, Philip Mantle.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: Statement from Ray Santilli From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 15:39:39 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 17:05:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Statement from Ray Santilli >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:48:13 -0400 >Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 13:17:08 -0400 >Subject: Re: Statement from Ray Santilli > Could you have a film sample? Dunno. Probably. Just ask Ray. > It seems to have been devalued lately. ROFLMAO! > BTW, did you buy Ray a birthday present??? If I thought he could be bought off with a simple birthday present, I would rush right out and buy him a shaving kit.<g> I have until Sept 30 to find the appropriate gift. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 15:15:49 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 17:13:25 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:50:57 -0400 > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 01:54:49 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > >From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > >Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 11:10:45 -0500 > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > >> From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] > >> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 12:25:19 PDT > >> To: updates@globalserve.net > >> Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > >> > From: HONEYBE100@aol.com > >> > Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 04:40:42 -0400 (EDT) > >> > To: updates@globalserve.net > >> > Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > >> > >Date: Wed.27 Aug.1997 11:15:09 -0700 > >> > >From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> > >> > >To: UFO UpDatess <updates@globalserve.net> > >> > >Subject: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > >> > Hello everyone! > >> > Scott Hale wrote: > >> > >List, > >> > >The recent posts regarding Linda Cortile have compelled me to > >> > >share my opinion on this issue. > (enormous snip) > Showme writes, > >Anonymity on a sighting report is not a big deal. But anonymity in a > >case where there is financial gain IS a big deal. > >BB > >Hi Barbara, > >After reading your comment I suddenly realized how many of my friends > >and aquaintances are writers. Do you know many writers Barbara? There > >isn't a sorrier lot of hooligans (in terms of financial renumeration) > >in all the world. > ><snip> > >John Velez > Hi John, > Right on! Everyone always thinks that writers make big bucks. It > just ain't so. I've written more than a dozen books, and some of them > have become best sellers in my field (photography), but I'm very far > from rich. If I didn't have a regular income from magazine editing > and photography, I'd be on food stamps! The vast majority of writers > are not like Norman Mailer, Steven King, and that ilk. There are a > few super stars who make millions, and then there's all the rest of us > who eke out a living somehow and write because we love doing it. > I hope everyone who thinks that writers are rich becomes one!! > Bob To all: I think the issue is lost in this conversation. Whether or not any of you (writers) become RICH is not the point. (I know you'd like to but....) The point is that once money becomes involved things look different. Things happen differently. If Linda C felt strongly about her story then why not write her own book, use her pseudonym, vanity press it and that be the end of it. There are quite a few abductees who have done just that. They knew they werent going to get rich, in fact it probably cost them, but they were true to themselves, most used their own names, some didnt. The question is: Why did you write a book with Budd Hopkins? If you didnt want the high profile, why go with Hokpins?? And how much were you paid? (I need to catch up on my mail but I dont see that you have answered that previously asked question.) And BTW Linda, because someone doesnt believe you doesnt make them a debunker. Thats just handwaving. BB Search for other documents from or mentioning: c549597 | 76750.2717 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 8 Recent UFO Sightings/Repeat Experiencers From: Steve Neeley <stneeley@bright.net> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 16:18:32 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 17:18:45 -0400 Subject: Recent UFO Sightings/Repeat Experiencers REPEATED SIGHTINGS OF "TRIANGLE" HARDIN COUNTY OHIO SKYWATCH INTERVIEWS EYEWITNESS COUPLE. Jackie Good urges her Honda faster along a stretch of U.S. 68 between Kenton and bellefontaine, Ohio. This young hospital technician wants to get a better look at this. Like all of us she has been told this cannot be real. Still she stares at it in utter fascination. Now it seems to be pacing her as she rounds a curve and the trees lessen. Jackie knows the feeling of nothing between you and the unknown but a pane of glass. Looking at a seemingly impossible sight fills one with intense emotions. She wavers between fear and curiosity. She blinks. Now what she thought was unreal in the first place has instantly and completely dissappeared! Sitting on a sofa in a suburban style home on the outskirts of Kenton, Ohio I open my laptop and listen to this young married couple with a one year old baby explain that they have seen this many, many times. She calls it a "flying dorito". A very special dorito indeed. Because it has three large bright lights mounted underneath. And it can do tricks like nothing else. she makes a triangle with her two hands as she recounts her fascinating story. As the video camcorder rolls silently in the background we go over the salient points. #1 Tim Good reports to his wife of seeing something very odd in the skywhile driving. Approx. Sept 5, 1996. #2 His wife then also sees the same or similar sights. #3 Tim mother reports seeing the same or similar sights. #4 Most recently Sept. 04, 1997 Tim recalls a bizarre situation in which the radio of his car switched stations as he beheld a pair of large white lights in the sky. Steve Steve Neeley Ohio Regional Director Skywatch International http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.html Hardin County Ohio Skywatch & Sighter Support http://www.geocities.com/soho/5782 stneeley@bright.net MIRC---Dalnet channel /join #ufo
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 17:15:35 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 17:46:39 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >Date: Mon, 08 Sep 97 11:04:18 cst >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >Wouldn't you consider this important enough to motivate Linda's >"eyewitnesses" to voluntarily suffer the stresses of notoriety and >sensationalism in order to confirm this startling new reality? >However, we are told, these "eyewitnesses" are too timid to come >forward to confirm Linda's tale -- despite the importance of making >this paradigm-shifting, world-changing event known; confirming the >reality of the abduction phenomenon; and least of all confirming that >Linda (whom we are told they have great affection for) didn't make the >whole thing up. >Given the current lack of the "eyewitnesses"' confirmation, it's easy >to dismiss the story (rightly or wrongly) as just being some sort of >elaborate sci-fi/romance novel/fantasy/hoax/performance art. It is not >"Eyewitnessed" and verified until the eyewitnesses come forward -- on >the record and in the affirmative (since Perez de Cuellar is already >on the record as denying the incident ever occurred). >Until that happens, we're only dealing with hearsay. End of story. No >further developments possible. No significance whatsoever. >If you believe that Linda's story is true, how can you not grasp the >importance of verifying her tale -- and thus, the necessity for the >"eyewitnesses" to come forward to provide that verification? From a research perspective, I would agree that it would be more beneficial to have all witnesses come forward to tell their tale, and this is especially true given the topic a hand. However, even testimony from credible witnesses would be annecdotal in the long run. Philip Corso has a background that can be verified and has given testimony before Congress because of his military knowledge and background, but it hasn't helped to give his latest book credibility in the eyes of many. The problem is that his book fails to offer direct proof, and that would likely be the case with "witnesses" that come forward to testify in an abduction case. But I would suspect that most "experiencers" or "abductees" aren't all that interested in research, and are seeking help in dealing with their "experience". >It is because I do believe that the subject of UFOs is important and >worthy of serious inquiry that I can't let inconsistencies and >contradictions go unchallenged. If you feel that this makes me a >"nattering nabob of negativism" (as you referred to me in an earlier >post) so be it. Just remember who coined that phrase and against whom >it was originally used. Those nabobs turned out to be right, didn't >they? Evoking the memory of the former Maryland Governor is something I could have easily avoided, given the opportunity. >Throughout history people have been persecuted for challenging the >popularly accepted status quo version of reality. Theres's one common >factor among those who dared to change outdated and obsolete >worldviews: courage. >We haven't seen much of that from the purported "eyewitnesses" in the >Linda case, have we? Let's note that the "courage" of those willing to challange accepted beliefs was almost never acknoledged during their lifetime, and is the result of how their actions are viewed through historical perspective. I would suspect that man's historical perspective of the "UFO Phenomenon" and "Alien Abduction" will also be viewed quite differently in the 22nd Century. But we will perhaps differ as to the slant that "perspective" will take. But, resorting to implied name calling isn't likely to cause a positive reaction in this particular case. Linda will have to speak for herself, but I have yet to meet an "experiencer" that really felt the need to convince non-believers. Search for other documents from or mentioning: steve |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 15:57:30 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 17:44:58 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > From: HONEYBE100@aol.com > Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 21:50:59 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > >From: rprokic@ibm.net (Roger Prokic) > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > >Date: Wed. 3 Sept 1997 11:58 -0600 > Hi Errol & everyone! > Roger Prokic wrote: > >Look Linda, I wasn't trying to offend you. It's just the way I > >feel about being anonymous. I didn't know how else to tell > >my position without it upsetting you. I didn't mean to hurt > >you in any way. It is only my opinion. And if I had gone > >tthrough what you did, I wouldn't have gone public with the > >story. I definately would have kept quiet. But that's me. > >That's what's nice about each of us being different. We all > >can react different to situations like this and we all have > >our own opinions. > >Sorry again, > >Roger > Roger: > There's one thing that we do agree on. You're right to say > that if you were me and had gone through what I did, you > would not have gone public with the case. > The fact remains that, I knew next to nothing about the UFO > community before my case and I were brought public. The > only part of the UFO community I was exposed to, was Hopkins' > support group meetings at his residence. We were a group of > about 20 - 25 people who met once, on a bi-monthly basis during > 1989 to 1992. I hadn't been out of New York state in 20 years. > I was, what some people would call, "a real green-horn," when it > came to ufology and it's people. > During the time my case was unfolding (1991) I thought it was being > discussed only during support group meetings. In 1992, Hopkins > decided to make it public at the Annual MUFON Conference in > New Mexico. I'd wondered...why would anyone be interested (my > case wasn't that much different from those who spoke about their > experiences at the group meetings). So, I decided to go to New > Mexico, in July, 1992, just to see what MUFON was and to watch > Budd talk about my case. > That evening, Hopkins made my case public. He called me on > stage to say hello to everyone. I felt silly because I didn't know > anyone and I thought that no one knew me. Much to my surprise, > there were 1000 people in attendance! So, I went up on stage and > said, "Hello, I know you don't know me, but my name is Linda!" > Roger... everyone started to laugh! Then, they started to snap > photo's of me. If you're old enough to remember, baby "King Kong," > who was named, "Mighty Joe Young," well, that's who I felt like > during my first public appearance. Then, the questions started. > The people were very nice. > I used the name Linda Cortile. I was even registered under that > name at the hotel where the conference took place. > But little did I know, what would be waiting for me when I came back > to NYC city after the conference in New Mexico. Three guys named, > Richard Butler, Joe Stefula and George Hanson had started a smear- > ing campaign, which led to the harrassment of my family and me. > My real name, address, phone number, photograph, etc., was re- > leased to those within and outside of the UFO community. Letters > were written to the Justice Dept. or some other agency and before > I knew it, I was summoned to the U.S. Secret Service for an interview. > These three characters managed to infiltrate my husbands place of > employment, and the building complex management office of where > I live. For some reason, these guys didn't want my case to go public. > One of the guys, "Richard Butler," was a member of our support > group. That's how my real name came out. > Well anyway, to make a very long story, shorter, I'd have to say > that, " I wouldn't have gone public if I knew what was going to happen > afterwards." I just want you and others to understand what has > happened here. Unknowingly, my case was discussed all over the > world, long before it went public at the MUFON conference in New > Mexico. That's why everyone laughed at me when I greeted them. > They had already known who I was. Before the case went public, > in 1992, I was told not to discuss my case with anyone outside of > our support group. So, I assumed that no one else was discussing > it anywhere else. It wasn't easy keeping it all inside for such a > long time. > It all happened so innocently. I didn't know what hit me. I wish I > had known what the score was before my case went public. > The world would be boring if we all thought alike and had the same > opinions. I know that you didn't try to hurt me intentionally and I > forgive you. > As far as Vince Johnson is concerned and if he's reading this post, > I've said about as much as I'm going to say to him. > Take care and thank you, too, Roger, > Linda Cortile Linda: I have read your post and I just dont get it. I just don't understand that if you wanted anonymity why you would go to New Mexico. If you wanted to see what MUFON was like you could have gone to a local meeting or bought a subscription to the JOURNAL. Yes, you are correct. EVERYONE in ufology knew about Hopkins BIG case in NY. This was HIS BIG one. You were his PROOF. (But to my knowledge only a few people at that time knew your real name.) According to your account he coerced you up on stage. If you were thinking no one knew you (at this point you are truly anonymous which is what you say you wanted)then why did you go up on stage to say "Hello." This doesnt make sense. You believe you have anonymity. You register under a pseudonym, no one knows your real name. No one knows that the person attending the conference with Hopkins is the subject of his new book, nor at this point do they have the vaguest idea what Linda C. looks like, so you step up on stage to say hello. Now not only is everyone aware of your existence but they now know what you look like. Im sorry but this doesnt make sense. This is not correct behavior for someone who wants anonymity. BB Search for other documents from or mentioning: c549597 | honeybe100 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: UK UFO Magazine - 'Chile announces UFOs are From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 14:43:13 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 18:26:28 -0400 Subject: Re: UK UFO Magazine - 'Chile announces UFOs are > From: Ndunlks@aol.com (by way of curator <erik@crossfields.com>) > Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 01:33:32 -0500 (CDT) > Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 09:42:20 -0400 > Subject: UK UFO Magazine - 'Chile announces UFOs are for > Date: 4th August 1997 > Source: UFO Magazine > Date: July/August 1997 > Chile announces UFOs are for real > On 2nd April 1997, Chilean newspaper 'La Cuarta' published the > following headline 'UFO Sighting of Arica is Confirmed by La > Direccion General de Aeronautic Civil'. > Luis Sanchez, Chilean Director of Skywatch International said this > was the first time such an organization had attached it's name to > such a statement. La Direccion General de Aeronautic Civil said that > they publicly recognised that Chile was experiencing UFO sightings > Sanchez said that the statement was due to the 'high quality' of an > observation made by control tower staff at Chacalluta International > Airport in Africa, the northernmost city in Chile. This type of information always sounds better than it is. I don't expect to see CNN do a story about how the Chilean government is publicly acknowledging the existance of UFO's. In spite of this I have to say I'm not altogether surprised to hear it. We sometimes forget in the United States how much stronger UFO activity is in South America. For example in Brazil they have almost as many different terms for UFO's as eskimos do for snow. OVNI (acronym) Chupa or "Chupa - Chupa" (to suck) O fogo (the fire) Disco These are all terms used by Brazilians to describe UFO's. Occassionally different terms are used to describe UFO's that display different characteristics. The Brazilian cases still fascinate me beyond anything I've studied in this field primarliy because there have been so many injuries that have occurred over the years that were related to the phenomenon. Of all the cases I've studied I would love to know more about what occurred on the Island of Colares in those three months in 1977. Cases like that are just screaming out for more intense study. Understanding the details of that incident is paramount in understanding the darker side of the phenomenon as a whole. Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 17:36:46 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 22:14:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 >Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 22:33:10 +0100 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 >> >> I checked and found an article about lights being sighted >> >> outside of town at night. >> >Hello Mike, Jan and List >> >A thought here. I might be wrong about airships and dirigables but >> >during the years after 1903 and well afterwards, lights on airplanes was >> >a luxury in expense and weight that could not be afforded. I'm almost >> >certain that electric lights on airships of the periods mentioned from >> >1894 etc. up until the early 20s would have been forbidden due to the >> >danger of spark induced explosions. Generators were spark prone and >> >spark free switches were virtually unknown for battery operation. That >> >left gas operated lights and I'm sure they would have been even more of >> >a hazard on hydrogen filled airships. >> >Aircraft on the other hand did not begin to employ lights until the mid >> >twenties on commercial passenger carriers. Generators, voltage >> >regulators and batteries on smaller aircraft were a weight penalty >> >luxury not deemed necessary where engines were already overweight and >> >underpowered and adding a generator would load those same engines down >> >robbing badly needed horsepower. > >> There were also carbide and oil lamps in use at that time. >Not in any airplane before the twenties, at least that's my take on the >info. I'm a pilot and an airplane buff anyway. I've seen alot of >antiques in my day and recall seeing nothing in the way of lighting >systems in the machines of the teens and twenties. I have no doubt that >airships had the room but suspect some type of low level lights strictly >for cabin purposes during the bombing raids over London during WW I. >Carbide lights would imply generators for the high current, and oil >lights in a hydrogen filled gas bag sounds doubtful to me. What I'm >saying is if any of these sightings of airships from 1894 til say 1910 >or 1915 reported brilliant lights as are the case nowadays, then you >could rule out the manmade versions in use at that time. The power was >just not there. No, Don, I 'm talking about the type of carbide which miners use on their hard hats for underground. It was a sulfer type powder, which they burned. It gave off a bright light but was extreemely portable. You are aware that in these underground pockets there are occasionally methane gas pockets found. So, I don't know if burning carbide would cause an explosion or not. Now days, they use battery powered lamps. Oh, Don, I enjoyed the mother in law joke you sent me. I would have replied to it, but I installed Win 95 on my computer, and have my Mindspring Internet program messed up. So I am on my 386 machine. Hopefully, I will get it worked out later this evening. >When you considered the instruments in use then, everything was either >magnetic, pneumatic, dynamic pressured or gravity dependent. In the open >cockpit the pilot relied on the wind on his/her cheek for slip >information and the seat of the pants for a lot of other things. >If you want to eliminate man made airships as possible reasons for UFO >sightings that far back, then I think this is one reason to eliminate >many of them. >Don Ledger Yes, I could agree with that.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: Statement from Ray Santilli From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 19:51:22 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 22:16:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Statement from Ray Santilli >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 15:39:39 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net (ufoupdates-toronto) >Subject: Re: Statement from Ray Santilli Rebecca, The birthday bit has been clarified. It seems that it was, in fact, Reg Presley's birthday when they all had lunch. But Reg completely forgot this in between times, and forgot that they celebrated it. Maybe that comes from singing "Wild Thing" a few times too often <G>! Philip called him today, and when he said it wasn't anyone's birthday, his wife, who was listening to the conversation reminded him that it was his!!! So, the birthday bit is explained. And I would like to formally issue an apology to Roger and Derrel for suggesting that they made this up. Obviously they didn't. They just got the wrong person's birthday. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 8 UFO News International 27 From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 01:43:21 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 22:26:50 -0400 Subject: UFO News International 27 ______ ______ ___________________________ | | | / \ ___ ____ | | | | | |\ | | \ / / | | |____ | | | \ | |___ \ /\ / /____ | | | | | | \| |___ \ / \ |______| | \______/ ___________ / ________________________/ ____ I n t e r n a t i o n a l ____ _________________________________ =FF - 27 - The saga of American Computer continues 2 Quotes 11 Alleged Area 51 worker announces revelations 11 Briefs 12 Editor's notes: 12 - 1 of 13 - - UFO News International 27 - ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ************************************************************* The saga of American Computer continues ************************************************************** A recent revelation by American Computer, a New Jersey based producer of personal computers, confirms the claims made by Lt. Col. Phillip Corso (ret.) about the gradual leaking of alien technology into American companies and laboratories by the US Army. Corso and American Computer now both claim that the US Army acquired technology from crashed extraterrestrial vehicles, notably the one that crashed near Roswell in 1947, and provided samples of it to major US industrial corporations. After acquiring and studying samples of extraterrestrial technology, Bell Labs, then a part of telephone giant AT & T and now a part of Lucent Technologies, invented devices like the transistor, the laser, the modem and the digital signal processor. The claims of American Computer (AC) can be found on its web site. http://www.American-Computer.com/roswell.htm. Corso's story can be found in his book 'The Day after Roswell' by Simon & Schuster. The investigation is ongoing. It began on the Internet discussion forum UFO Updates Toronto, that I can recommend everone to sign up to. You can sign up at http://www.globalserve.net/~updates/mu- fon/ This week new information came to light that, among other things, suggested that not only Bell profited from the "bounty that fell from the sky", but also other big American companies like IBM, Digital Equipment Corporation and Intel. Recently independent investigator Linda Howe has taken up the story and integrated into her research about the alleged crash of an alien spaceship near Roswell. If the claims are indeed true, it means nothing less than that part of post-WW II history has to be rewritten. The technologies are the cornerstones of our present day economies. ___ Last week Jared Anderson spoke to John Schwartz, AC's vice- president of administration. Schwartz informed Anderson that a man currently employed by AC used to work for Bell Labs in the 60's. This individual was not previously an employee of Bell Labs but allegedly had a "domestic" connection with an individual at Bell Labs that was overseeing the projects in question. Allegedly they lived in the same house together several different times. Mr. Schwartz also made it clear that neither the anonymous employee making the claims nor anyone else in the company was aware of retired Colonel Philip Corso. Schwartz also said they had been contacted by the New York Times and he mentioned Ed Wang, a former writer for the Times. - 2 of 13 - - UFO News International 27 - Mr Schwartz confirmed the rumor that a break in had occurred at their offices a short time after the data was posted on their web site. Mr Schwartz also said that after OSI (Office of Special Investigation - HvdP) had made an investigation of the break-in they speculated that it may have been a result of the data on the website. AC provided Anderson with the name of the alleged Bell Labs employee who was supposedly involved with either the transistor or integrated circuit project or both. His name is John "Jack" Morton. AC stated this individual was either murdered or died under mysterious circumstances some years ago. AC claimed they were unsuccessful in establishing documentary evidence of Morton's employment (or existance) at Bell Labs but feel confident his employment was valid. According to AC's research into the patents from the transistor and the integrated circuit they claimed to have come across some anecdotal information which suggested there was a dispute or challenge to the patent that claimed the materials came from a weapon being tested in the desert in 1947. The counterclaim was that the silicon arsenic combination originated from a meteorite. ____ Last week Bob Wolfe talked to the source at ACC who researched it. He is a consultant residing in the Fort Monmouth, New Jersey area, where he is an expert on National Electronic Space Command matters for the Department of the Air Force at various air force bases. The US Air Force is fully aware of these matters, according to the consultant, but disdains to discuss them itself. Since it has hired the consultant, so it must appreciate his opinions. By Bob Wolfe 'Here it is, World, for everyone to hear, from the horse's mouth (updated today, September 2, 1997 with additional facts).' Bell Laboratories published all the historical about the invention of the transistor AFTER the fact in 1948 and 1949. 'It's all a smokescreen fabrication designed to hide the real history. Do not expect Bell Labs to sit tight on this, they may even sue me for revealing this: but the fact is, there is NO INFORMATION ABOUT TRANSISTOR RESEARCH actually available nor that is bonafide nor provided by Bell Labs PRIOR TO Sepetember of 1947. It didn't exist, because the materials researched to fabricate the Transistor came from the Roswell, New Mexico, crash site of the "extraterrestrial craft" discovered jointly by the Air Force and Army there in mid 1947, accidentally revealed to the public and then retracted, by a public relations spokesperson at that Testing Base. - 3 of 13 - - UFO News International 27 - Anything about the 1946/47 or 48 period, or after, at Bell Labs about the Transistor, is pure smoke. Here, here's what really happened. Col. Corso should be proud that he took the stand he Bob's added note: today I learned from the person that there has been a long standing dispute inside of AT&T, Bell Labs, AT&T Labs and now, Lucent, about the representations regarding the Transistor (1948), the IC (1974), the DSP (1967), the Modem (1958), and that all four kinds of device may have been present in the technology transferred to 'the Labs' in 1947. There are notes at the labs about research that was cloaked behind a cover up story called "black hole machine" designs at the Labs from 1947 to 1975 after the untimely death of John "Jack" Morton", the implications of which are that the technology transferred to the labs may even have influenced computer design advances as components were reverse engineered and it was determined how 'alien computing devices' worked. The UNIX operating system, even the Bell Labs forerunners of the PDP-1 (The 1B), the PDP11 and the M-6800 (The 2B), the M-68000 (The 3B), the RISC-SPARC (The 4B) and variations, may all have been caseworks developed from knowledge reverse engineered out of an alien computer so complex that only parts of it are fully understood today, except, according to him, by one living human being (remaining nameless), resulting in our comparatively primitive simulations of the working environments found on the 'alien computing devices'. He equated the alien computational systems as being 'about 24th Century Human' in advanced design - thus far the US Government has only determined that one living person is capable of understanding them, and he's reportedly something of an eccentric and unwilling to work on them. I note that 'the source' defined a 'shuttle bus' of technology interchange that has operated between Bell Labs, IBM, Unisys, Digital Equipment, Fairchild, Intel, and others that would, upon isolation of a new concept in the 'alien computing artifacts' result in a pell mell dash to bring to market the new idea from these companies, a 'shuttle bus' that's been in full sway since the early 60's. Back to the 'anonymous source':did." "My information come indirectly from people I worked with who were involved in the alleged research in 1947 and after. They were all sworn to secrecy, and one of them, who shall remain nameless, who started to get a bit loose lipped, suddenly was found dead in the 70's." "They indicated that Bell Labs diodes (germanium) were rather primitive current-wave polarity filtering devices in June of 1947, and that in September of 1947 the Department of the Army directed Bell under contract at the time to pursue radar research into objects of extraterrestrial origin, known today as Roswell Extraterrestrial Landers Number 1 and 2 (there were two devices, by the way, REL#1 and REL#2). - 4 of 13 - - UFO News International 27 - Bell agreed and took the pieces of material to the Murray Hill facility into a Laboratory. There, under top secret protocol, they took apart a photonic transducer, and an electronic device, leaving other parts of the crafts intact, discovering several microscopic fragments in the dissections that resembled devices that had been theorized by scientists, but which Bell was unable to manufacture as it had no idea how to compose them. Using materials similar in nature to what the spectagraphics department determined was a polysilicon, arsenic and boron material, they were able to first devise an amplifying effect within weeks of the research, and using a variety of methods, they tried to recreate the same materials and apply various electrical currents to them. Please note that the earthshaking nature of the discovery was not missed by Bell Labs execs and attorneys: they reported that their findings by Radar Microscopy of the objects given them by the Department of the Army was inconclusive, to the Army. But, in point of fact, their research into these 'extraterrestrial' objects was FAR FROM INCONCLUSIVE - and, well, basically, the War Department of the Army was Hoodwinked by Bell. Attorneys of the Lab, about seven months later, filed patents in the names of field lab scientists who were sworn to secrecy, in middle 1948, and, amid it all, the Transistor was born and Bell proceeded to play out a long term exercise in secret profiteering that is unparalleled in human history! It plays out like a Star Trek movie." "All subsequent accounts of the invention were stylized publicity accounts designed to create the impression of Bell Labs research superiority. In 1973 or 4, during a strategic investigation into the murder of John Morton, head of these projects at Bell Labs Semiconductors, the Offices of Army and Air Force Strategic Investigations discovered the leak of the materials of extrater- restrial origin by Bell Labs and the false reports filed by Bell in 1947 and 1948. A long term investigation of Bell Labs improper handling of Strategic Military Materials was begun, under the codename Project Starpoint. Statutes of limitations and denials by Bell Labs officials prevented prosecution, and with breakup of the Bell System already underway, it became impossible for the Army and Air Force to do anything but wince at the whole affair". "Starpoint's intent was to determine the extent of the damage to public affairs in the United States and elsewhere, by Bell Labs and The Bell System's release of materials into the Commercial mainstream, that it obtained from the materials of extraterres- trial origin that belonged to the Department of the Army. For the intervening 25 years, neither the Air Force nor the Army had been aware of exactly what Bell Labs did with the classified materials conveyed to it, except that Bell claimed they had obtained no meaningful results when they tested it. The Army, fearful of the side effects of it being known that the Army couldn't make heads or tails of the 'extraterrestrial craft', decided to bury the whole event. - 5 of 13 - - UFO News International 27 - Some have suggested that Bell Labs was 'in cahoots' with some at the Army or Air Force, but that remains unproven, except as set forward, below." "Even so, RCA Semiconductors, back during the first AntiTrust suit against the Bell System, filed a challenge of the patents filed in the names of Shockley, Bardeen, et al., by Bell Labs attorneys and referred to the nature of the materials conveyed to Bell by the Army that RCA presented substantial evidence was the source of the Transistor, that it in fact was a 'weapon' - without fully identifying its extraterrestrial origins. RCA had a considerable reason for wanting to challenge Bell, as RCA had been the epitome of Vacuum Tube and Picture Tube technology and had independantly obtained information about how to manufacture the alien derived 'Bell Transistor' - not wanting to be left out of the economic gain of this leap forward into solid state electronics. The challenge they filed was disputed by Bell attorneys, claiming they had obtained the material from common academic sources who had investigated a meteorite and that during tests, the materials had demonstrated unique electrical charactersitics which suggested they would be suitable for theoretical research proposals that had suggested this 'all along' in decades earlier. This is the closest anyone, until Col. Corso and the OSI, got to proving the unthinkable thing Bell Labs had done. I know, as I was someone who two of the principal officials 'in the know' took the time to relate the information to as part of our mutual efforts to gird AT&T for the impending break up of the Bell System in the 70's. This is not to say that the historians are wrong - they are just reporting the information as Bell Labs wants or wanted them to. They are just gullible." "In fact, the Bell System enlisted local military influences and those in Norad, to provide it additional defenses in the Murray Hill area, because in fact Bell Labs believed that some of the pieces it had received were Homing Beacons in nature, operating at extreme mm wavelengths and extremely high power, and are still reportedly operating to this date, despite being cased in thick concrete and lead containers beneath Bell Labs Lyncroft/Holmdel, NJ facility. Bell hired crucial military and commercial players in the vicinity of the project involving the craft, and paid them to organize businesses such as American Research and Development, and others, in essence buying them off. But some of them, despite having been paid off, broke the silence over the years, leaking information into the public sector for almost 5 decades that a space craft had landed in 1947 at Roswell, almost out of feelings of guilt, I suspect. /\ -------- / \ - 6 of 13 - - UFO News International 27 - I, for one, am proud of Col. Corso and his book, it breaks a silence that has been unbearable for one and all close to the Bell Labs coverup since its inception. And, the deaths of one or more which might be linked to the enormous greed surrounding the affair, is in and of itself an even more horrific matter! Bell Labs was far from the only company to receive the 'gifts' - the records of the Labs I worked at contained notations about advanced materials, advanced chemical formulae, even advanced biological notions that the craft may have somehow contained." "It is now no longer felt, by Bell, that the 'extraterrestrial' objects and their origins pose any threat to humanity, as we'd have heard from the Aliens in question long before now, and so the massive defensive preparations have been abandoned. Note, however, that at least one of the craft still exists, is in cold storage, and is fully functional, albeit, not fully understood even to this day. Attempts to fly it have suffered from lack of understanding of its control surfaces and drive." ---- By the way, it cost $5,000,000+ for Bell to setup the equipment needed to analyze the materials transmitted to it in 1947 by the Army and the Air Force, the source said, just in case anyone is curious. Oh yes, he suggested investigators should go back further than 1948 to the year of the event and find any journals referring to the work. He suggests that the in-house journals at Bell Labs in 1947 aren't very helpful, he read through them himself in 1969 and 1970 during conferences with John Morton, and others at Bell Labs when he worked there. The papers that were published are remarkable in that they appear to describe leaps of success without the usual 10 years of research and scads of interns and industry tests that were typical of Bell Labs research in the era. He wants you to dig deeper - and consult with Colonel Corso, whom he felt may actually HAVE been one of the 'trap door spooks' - the nameless Army and Air Force guys who arranged for the RELs to be transferred to Bell and elsewhere, hidden behind smoke, bubble gum, band aids and a lot of information. Again, so those of you interested should know THEIR POSITION, American Computer Company, itself, told me to say: "American Computer is unable to confirm nor deny or dispute any of the facts presented by the source of the story about the Roswell, NM 'space craft' or Bell Laboratories, and is soliciting the opinion of the public so that any facts in the public sector and the public opinion, will become known." ______ /\ /\ \_\ /_/ \ " / \ _ / \ / - 7 of 13 - - UFO News International 27 - ACC claims that the official history of the transistor 'appears to gloss over what happened in a stylized story telling fashion that is, at once, entertaining, and which is the way, we believe, Bell Labs would want us all to believe it happened, but which may be very far from the actual truth. We do not dispute that Shockley, Bardeen, Noyce or others received the in personem credit for these patents and were placed by the Bell System into their respective positions, its just that we have found the facts presented us the consultantby compelling enough to publish his opinion, and seek the opinion of others, like yours, which we welcome.' 'May something surface from the past to dispell any myths. And, if there is a craft somewhere in hiding, may, in the profound wisdom of our military's leaders in the Defense Department, may they now find themselves strongly enough motivated to reveal it's existence and that of "Skystation", in all of their glory, for the American public and the World Public now have a right to now!'. Quote, unquote! Ho-Boy!! Sky-station! _____ The President of American Computer presented some of his own views on the matter on the UFO Updates discussion forum. He addressed allegations from a participant that the Roswell story was inspired by commercial motives: "It's expensive to maintain a responsible position regarding the anonymity of the source, and if you think I like picking up the cost of new doors, replacing things that were damaged when our offices were broken into, nor picking up the costs which mounted in the last week when we received thousands of SPAMs intended to shut down our servers and email receivers (by the way: we do not bulk email anyone. Nor do we subscribe to nor purchase EMAIL lists of any kind), or liked having to rush in at three in the AM two nights ago to work with ACC Corporate Security to block a Hacker trying to bust in to one of our servers, and stop all the little "No UFO" circles that someone was trying to download onto our home page, you'd be far from right. And if you think I like spending two hours in a room having my personal history picked apart by two big hungry OSI investigators from Maguire Air Force Base, in the middle of a busy work day, you are wrong, or handling round robin calls to and from the Pentagon... It just 'aint' worth it, Son. After 28 years in the computer industry, I have to repeat that: It just 'aint' worth it, Son. - 8 of 13 - - UFO News International 27 - I won't deny it: we are hoping that people learn of us and our website, and get an opportunity to learn about the allegations of "unthinkable conduct" by our former partners at Bell Labs, and about the death of John Morton, and about the possibilities that technology was transferred. That's why we published the story: we hope the Truth emerges, whatever it may be. Mr. John Morton was a personal acquaintence of mine in the 60's and early 70's, as he was, even more so, to the source of the article on our website. I saw the devestating effects the publicity surrounding his untimely death did to his reputation. The sensationalism surrounding it all devestated his wife, a wonderful woman with a gift for gab, a green thumb, and a sweet temperment, his two sons, both world grade atheletes and outstanding people on their own, and his several grandchildren and other family members. I suppose when I was asked to publish the UFO story, I was swayed a bit by memories of what happened. No man deserves to die in a car, doused in a can of gasoline, unconscious, then set afire, not on account of any reason, particularly not on account of whether or not he might become someone else's liability. And, for the perpetrators to have gotten such a small sentence when apprehended, the sensational "Wedding at the Courthouse" when one of them married the only witness, a bar maid, who could identify him as leaving a pub with the victim: I guess it all still bothers me, the whole affair. But, we are still in business. So is the publisher who published Col. Corso's book, so was Bell Labs in 1947, and so are you. I hope that, in some way, if people learn who Jack Morton was, they will find out a bit of the lost history of our world. And, if the story about the UFO can be substantiated, then a little more lost history may be preserved, or if disproven, then we can all look elsewhere and restore our own faith in those wrongly accused of covering it all up. As the website says: if the story is true, then let's prove it, if its not, then lets disprove it. We all want the Truth, whatever or wherever it may be, and a maybe we can all have a bit of fun for everyone examining the issues, on the road to the Truth. I hope for your sake, that you find whatever you are searching for out there, but that your time not be wasted by any further calculated attacks on American Computer Company. You'd be missing the entire point and focussing your energy on the wrong target. And, doing yourself something of a personal disservice." __|__ --_---_-- \\ \\ - 9 of 13 - - UFO News International 27 - ____ On September 7, journalist Linda Howe reported about her own investigatons into this story on the Art Bell radio show. She had interviewed Jack Schulman, the Chairman of American Computer. Schulman had founded American Computer with executives from Bell Laboratories. He claims that the technology has been interchanged since 1947 between at least Bell Labs, IBM, Unisys, Fairchild, Digital and Intel. Among other things Schulman said the extraterrestrial technology seemed to be 400 years in advance of earthly technology that was around in 1947. The motivation for releasing this information now was that Bell Laboratories has always lied about the invention of the transistor. Art Bell and Linda Howe expect more information to be reported soon. Bell promised his audience that he was going to try to get the consultant of American Computer on the air. The consultant was the person who researched this story for American Computer and eventually the story was put on the Internet. _____ Meanwhile James Easton is exploring the official version of the invention of the transistor. "Having searched a database of technical publications, I've requested copies of a number of articles indexed under "The History of the Transistor". Published in journals such as "Physics Today", these include, "A Semicentury of Semiconduc- tors", "John Bardeen and the Point-contact Transistor" and "Recollections from the Early Years of Solid-State Physics". The seminal work on the field is suggested to be Shockley's "Electrons and Holes in Semiconductors", which on page 35 notes, "An important discovery of Bardeen and Brattain was that, when the input point is biased for forward current flow, it become surrounded by an area of interaction; if the output point is placed within this area, the input current controls the output current in such a way that power gain results". James Easton will provide more information when it becomes available. ************************************************************** Would you like a direct subscription to UFO News International? Write to hvdp@worldonline.nl ______ /\ /\ \_\ /_/ \ " / \ _ / \ / - 10 of 13 - - UFO News International 27 - ************************************************************** Quotes ************************************************************** Never criticize a fellow ufologist until you've walked a mile in his shoes. That way you'll have a head start -- and his shoes! SA Sasquatch "If you sit next to a pretty girl for an hour, it seems like a minute. If you sit on a red hot stove for a minute, it seems like an hour. That's Relativity!" Albert Einstein ************************************************************** Alleged Area 51 worker announces revelations ************************************************************** Art Bell is the host of the radio talk show 'Coast to Coast' that airs every weekday in the US. - HvdP Dear Mr. Bell: I've listend to your show with interest over several months now and was tempted to call in on a few occassions when the subject of Area 51 came up. I was a former employee at this installation with a 'top-secret' clearance and was privy to some rather interesting information and sights. The reason I did not call, however, is because I do not want to simply 'spring' this information on you, or your audiance, without discussing a few things with you first, off the air. Mr. Bell, I have information that I believe would astound you and your listeners. Up until now, I have let fear for my safety and the safety of those around me stop me from going public. Only recently have I realised that it really doesn't matter what happens to me. The American people have a right to know the truth about this installation and its true purpose. I have also taken several security precautions to ensure my safety, beginning with this email address. Needless to say, this is not my real name. But it is one that is generic enough to 'blend in'. I believe the time has come for America to know the truth. What puts me in a position to 'enlighten' them? A Top Secret security clearance at the installation does. Although I am no longer an employee of Area 51 (as of March), I still hold my clearance because I am still called to work there ocassionally. Because of my clearance, I have been privy to a lot of things that most people could only hope to learn about. - 11 of 13 - - UFO News International 27 - To tell you the truth, Art, the information I have to share with America will probably not be believed by the masses. It is too fantastic and terrifying. If America only knew what was going on there, they would be scared to death of their government. Time travel (Achieved), alien research, psychic research, reverse engineering of alien technology, is only the tip of the iceberg. Can you see now why I've chosen to keep quiet? But, I feel the time has come for the truth to come out. I guess I've kind of adopted a 'consequences be damned' attitude. But, before I present my material, I would like to discuss some things with you. I would very much like to use your show as a medium to release this information. However, I also am concerned about my safety and that of my family. These are things we need to discuss. I will include a toll-free number to a pager. You may call it and I will return your call. I have secured the number from a close friend and it is virtually untraceable. I will call you back. Leave a voice message of up to 45 seconds when you call with the number to reach you. Mr. Bell, this is not simply an attempt to get on the radio. If that were the case, I would have called in as a normal caller. I want to get this information out to the public. I am not so bold as to publish a book or put it on a website as that would surely ensure my demise. I feel your show is the best forum for what needs to be done. I look forward to hearing from you. Continued success with your show! Anthony ************************************************************** Briefs ************************************************************** NASA's spaceship Global Surveyor has almost completed its 10- month voyage to reach Mars. Next Friday 03.30 CET (Thursday 21.30 EST) the spacecraft will encounter the red planet. Surveyor is approaching at the rate of 249,350 km per day. ************************************************************** Editor's notes: UFOPals welcomes: . your own UFO report . abduction experience . analysis or commentary Anonimity will be provided if needed. UFOPals also welcomes: . congress announcements . congress reports . notification of a change in your web site - 12 of 13 - - UFO News International 27 - . information about your UFO organization All contributions to this newsletter must be in English. Grammar and spelling need not be perfect. In case of a change in your e-mail address, please notify me in advance, so that you can continue to receive UFOPals. If you haven't received this newsletter for more than three weeks, something must have gone wrong, so please contact me. Readers are encouraged to invite their friends, acquaintances and colleagues to subscribe to this newsletter. The text of this newsletter can be transferred to your preferred word processor. First take care that this newsletter and your wordprocessor are both activated under a Windows operating system. Then select the text of the newsletter with the computer mouse, click on the copy command (Ctrl-C), change to your word processor and paste the text by clicking the Paste icon (suitca- se) into your word processor document. ______ /\ /\ \_\ /_/ \ " / \ _ / \ / ************************************************************** Date: September 7, 31, 1997 Editor: Henny van der Pluijm Correspondents: Barry Chamish (Israel) Mike Stahl (Australia) Home: http://www.ufoic.com UFO FAQ: http://www.ufoic.com/faq UFOPals archive: http://www.ufoic.com/faq/ufopals Personal: http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp E-mail: hvdp@worldonline.nl Direct subscribers: 165 Copyright agreements: Project Watchfire BBS. NUN BBS Network, The Netherlands. Over 100 subscribers. UFO Online BBS - PDX, Portland, Oregon, USA. 75 subscribers. ______________________________________________________________ (C) Henny van der Pluijm, 1997. ______________________________________________________________ =FF - 13 of 13 - - UFO News International 27 - =FF ____________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm e-mail: hvdp@worldonline.nl web: http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp Leiden, The Netherlands \__________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 21:18:36 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 22:51:22 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] >Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 15:15:49 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >To all: >I think the issue is lost in this conversation. Whether or not any of >you (writers) become RICH is not the point. (I know you'd like to >but....) The point is that once money becomes involved things look >different. Things happen differently. >If Linda C felt strongly about her story then why not write her own >book, use her pseudonym, vanity press it and that be the end of it. >There are quite a few abductees who have done just that. They knew they >werent going to get rich, in fact it probably cost them, but they were >true to themselves, most used their own names, some didnt. >The question is: Why did you write a book with Budd Hopkins? If you >didnt want the high profile, why go with Hokpins?? And how much were you >paid? (I need to catch up on my mail but I dont see that you have >answered that previously asked question.) And BTW Linda, because >someone doesnt believe you doesnt make them a debunker. Thats just >handwaving. >BB I think there is a difference between "writing a book" with Bud Hopkins and that of allowing him to tell the story based on his own research. I can't seem to lay my hands on my copy of the book, but a search of Amazon.com showed that Linda was not credited as the co-author. It is obvious that she would have had to grant permission to allow her case to be publicized, and she has stated that if she had it to do over, she probably wouldn't do it again. But to be quite honest, if I was an "experiencer" I would seek out the best researcher I could find, and one of the most visable is Bud Hopkins. The fact that they are both in New York make that a simple choice, and I suspect that only a small percentage of Budd's cases are publicized in any way, so I'm not sure that the fact that he is a "high profile" researcher is relevent. Since it is apparent that only a small percentage of the cases researched are actually brought to the attention of the public, it would be interesting to see a study as to the reasons that some seek to tell their story, while others do not. But unless Linda feels the need to tell "her side" of the story, I'm not sure why she would want to got through the effort.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 17:40:44 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 23:10:32 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 14:36:55 -0500 > Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 17:08:29 -0400 > Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > > Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 01:54:49 -0500 > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > > Hello John Velez: > > You made me think about how many writers I actually do know, in > ufology, > > academia, and as journalists. I must be hangin' with the good ones > because they all make money on their writings. There was only one > writer > > I know personally who told me they didn't make any money on their > writing > and it was Phil Klass. (Anybody who knows Phil, knows I'm telling the > truth here! So go figure. > > BB Ms Becker, Phil Klass has written a lot of books and he charges for his monthly UFO newsletter SUN. Would you help validate your claim here by telling us where the money goes from the sales of Phil's literature or naming the charity? Does this go to a CSICOP fund? If so which one? Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 22:48:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 23:40:34 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity Ahhh....so we're discussing Linda again, forgetting some crucial details from Budd Hopkins' book...and also making some VERY optimistic assumptions! > From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com > Date: Fri, 05 Sep 97 12:02:50 cst > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity Vince wrote: > >>That all of the palyers (other than Linda who still resents being > >>named publicly) in this scenario have refused to go public in- > >>dicates either that these putltive players grossly underestimate > >>the importance of the events they claim to have witnessed, or > >>that they're insufferably wimpish - or else it's all just a hoax. > >>Is there any difference between the primary players avoiding > >>publicity in this case and someone who witnesses a murder but > >>won't report it to the police because they "don't want to get > >>involved?" Vince, here's what you've forgotten. According to the book, Richard said he'd get in major trouble with his employers in the U.S. government if he came forward. In fact, he said he might find himself forcibly removed, if not physically eliminated. To elaborate a little...I don't know if you've seen the "Intruders" TV movie, loosely based on Budd's book by that name. There's a character in it (purely fictional) who observed a UFO incident while in the military, and is hounded into a mental hospital. In a letter Budd didnt't publish, Richard says he's seen the movie, and cites this character as an example of what he thinks could happen to him. In fact, the full scenario, more or less implied in the book but maybe not fully stated, was this. Remember that the abduction of Nov. 30, 1989 involved many more people than merely Richard, Dan, Linda, and de Cuellar. There were other international figures, along with their bodyguards. They might not have been abducted, but they were definitely affected when their cars came to a stop, when de Cuellar, Richard and Dan went missing, and when every security precaution the large group meant to observe apparently broke down. Reports were made. Whether Richard and Dan told their superiors everything they told Budd, I have no idea. (And by the way, I'm saving myself endless numbers of "alleged" and "supposedly"s by simply telling the story as it was reported. I understand very well that none of this has been proved.) But they certainly reported some of it. Richard told Budd more than once that to talk about the event in public would be a major security breach. Wimpishness has nothing to do with it. But, you know...the whole principle, Vince, that you suggest here is hardly based on reality. Here in New York, we've had a major police brutality case. Officers of the 70th precinct in Brooklyn not only beat someone they had in custody, but sexually assaulted him in the most brutal, unspeakable fashion. There is no doubt that the event occured. Investigations are underway, there were newspaper headlines every day for a week, and the mayor (normally very close to the police department) has denounced the police behavior. Still, virtually NOBODY from the police precinct has come forward to testify. Where are the officers who may have heard about the atrocity from those who committed it? Where are the cops who heard the victim's screams? This has now become a story itself. Everybody talks about the "blue wall," the unspoken principle that ranks protecting a fellow officer higher than law, justice, or common decency. When did the world suddenly change, so that now we can expect people to come forward when there's something in the public interest to report? Have I missed something, or did hordes of scientists from tobacco companies suddenly testify to Congress that, yes, they were ordered to find ways to addict people to cigarettes? Have engineers from aerospace companies suddenly gone on TV, explaining precisely how they wasted billions on military planes that never flew? This is why we have the term "whistle-blower" -- because it's uncommon for insiders to go public with information that the public might want to know. But suddenly Richard, Dan, and Perez de Cuellar are supposed to be exceptions to the rule. Vince, it's OK to be skeptical about the Linda case, but have you forgotten how the world works? Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: Sims and Leir: Sincere? From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 23:22:58 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 23:41:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Sims and Leir: Sincere? > Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 02:06:17 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Sims and Leir: Sincere? > > >From: XianneKei@aol.com > >Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 18:24:34 -0400 (EDT) > >To: UpDates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Sims and Leir: Sincere? > > >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> > >>Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 15:48:19 -0400 > >>Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 16:20:41 -0400 > >>Subject: Re: Statement from Ray Santilli > >> Sims should have disclosed the results of > >> his implant research to those from whom he removed them, > >> but I don't know what type of legal arrangements had been > >> made prior to the surgery, and they may give Sims total > >> control over the information (which in hindsight shouldn't > >> have been signed, if that's the case). < snip > > This is a joke. FIRST is Sims' own group. NIDS is Bob Bigelow. Big fish eat > little fish. Bigelow being the richer of the two is probably calling all of > the shots. Bigelow has been buying and hoarding all of the information on > UFO's and aliens that he can and he's been doing it for years. NONE OF IT > EVER SEES THE LIGHT OF DAY AGAIN. > Why,...I don't know, you'd have to ask Mr Bigelow. I just don't like it > that once again people are treated as a 'commodity' and nothing is done > about it. The 'perps' get away with it once again. > Let's demand some accountability from these bozos before anyone else spends > another dime at one of their lectures or other public appearances. If I had > an anti-christ to Bigelow willing to fund me I'd follow them wherever they > were booked to speak and loudly demand answers from them ad nausium until > they gave us some! > I am an abductee. I _know_ what Pat and the others have been through and > all of the attendant crap that has to be worked through, it's not easy. > Because of that we are kind of like 'brothers under the skin' so to speak > and whatever happens to them, happens to me. I stand _with them_ come hell > or high water. > Mr Sims,... all I have is words, but I will hurl them at you like spears > until you are held accountable for the results of those six surgeries. That > information belongs to the world, whether fer or agin. We have a right to > know. This is something that could eventually involve every living ass on > the planet. Our little grey friends are very busy while we all screw around > wasting valuable time like the passengers on the 'ship of fools'. > John Velez, Abductee Union Rep. John, Watch out you are coming close to accusing people of that dreaded word, conspiracy. Gary Search for other documents from or mentioning: galevy | jvif |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Misleading Information Given to From: "the snakester" <snake@mwaz.com> [Desiree Holloway] Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 20:43:16 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 10:26:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Misleading Information Given to ---------- > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Misleading Information Given to AmericanComputer Co. > Date: Monday, September 08, 1997 10:20 AM > Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 10:17:11 -0800 > From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Misleading Information Given to American > Computer Co. > Desiree, thank you for putting the truth out here and supporting me. > This should be the end of it-except for the fact that someone added > things to my post and then presented it to the president of ACC. > That was unethical and it cast me in a bad light. > Thanks for supporting me "snakester". > Josh Goldstein No problem, Josh. I can not stand to see "unethical" or misleading information go unchallenged or unsupported. Especially given the fact that this particular incident was launched over a public forum. I should be interested, and am waiting to see the response to your request for an apology:) Sincerely, Desiree Holloway - (perpetually dumbfounded) snake@mwaz.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/8701
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 22:42:42 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 10:24:00 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 21:18:36 -0400 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > >From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > >Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 15:15:49 -0500 > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > >To all: > >I think the issue is lost in this conversation. Whether or not any > >of you (writers) become RICH is not the point. (I know you'd like to > >but....) The point is that once money becomes involved things look > >different. Things happen differently. > >If Linda C felt strongly about her story then why not write her own > >book, use her pseudonym, vanity press it and that be the end of it. > >There are quite a few abductees who have done just that. They knew > >they werent going to get rich, in fact it probably cost them, but > > they were true to themselves, most used their own names, some didnt. > >The question is: Why did you write a book with Budd Hopkins? If you > >didnt want the high profile, why go with Hokpins?? And how much were > >you paid? (I need to catch up on my mail but I dont see that you > >have answered that previously asked question.) And BTW Linda, > >because someone doesnt believe you doesnt make them a debunker. > >Thats just handwaving. > >BB > I think there is a difference between "writing a book" with Bud > Hopkins and that of allowing him to tell the story based on his own > research. I can't seem to lay my hands on my copy of the book, but a > search of Amazon.com showed that Linda was not credited as the > co-author. It is obvious that she would have had to grant permission > to allow her case to be publicized, and she has stated that if she had > it to do over, she probably wouldn't do it again. But to be quite > honest, if I was an "experiencer" I would seek out the best researcher > I could find, and one of the most visable is Bud Hopkins. The fact > that they are both in New York make that a simple choice, and I > suspect that only a small percentage of Budd's cases are publicized in > any way, so I'm not sure that the fact that he is a "high profile" > researcher is relevent. I think it would be more appropriate for an "experiencer" to seek out a qualified therapist, someone familiar with the syndrome, preferably in the UFO field, not a visual artist, self trained in hypnotism. I see Hopkins as a researcher just as you say and as a writer with a vested interest in producing books. As for Hopkins publicizing "his" cases...as I recall he recently had a problem with Nova regarding a case of his he allowed to be filmed. And I remember previous specials in which Hopkins and his stable of abductees appeared. (Not to mention the TV talk show circuit.) How do you think he got to be high profile? He provides what the media people want. > Since it is apparent that only a small percentage of the cases > researched are actually brought to the attention of the public, it > would be interesting to see a study as to the reasons that some seek > to tell their story, while others do not. But unless Linda feels the > need to tell "her side" of the story, I'm not sure why she would want > to got through the effort. Thats a good question only Linda can answer. Linda, why did you allow Hopkins to "tell your story"? BB
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors From: DRudiak@aol.com [David Rudiak] Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 00:48:31 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 10:33:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors The following was just posted by Bob Tarantino to Usenet UFO groups, and I believe the man has hit on something relevant to the alien transistor debate. -------------------------------------- Newsgroups: alt.alien.research,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranet.ufo,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Phoenix UFO - Nothing on Radar? MJ-12 hoax From: bob <taranr@erols.com> Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 10:36:39 -0400 >>>>>>>>> Consider the following excerpt from a declassified document which was originally submitted by a firm in England proposing research into anti-gravity or "electrogravitics" in 1955... *** [Page 32] ELECTRO-GRAVITICS EFFORT WIDENING Companies studying the implications of gravitics are said in a new statement, to include Glenn Martin, Convair, Sperry-Rand, Sikorsky, Bell, Lear Inc. and Clark Electronics. Other companies who have previously evinced interest include Lockheed Douglas and Hiller. The remainder are not disinterested, but have not given public support to the new science - which is widening all the time. The approach in the U.S. is in a sense more ambitious than might have been expected. The logical approach, which has been suggested by Aviation Studies, is to concentrate on improving the output of electrostatic rigs in existence that are known to be able to provide thrust. The aim would be to concentrate on electrostatics for propulsion first and widen the practical engineering to include establishment of local gravity forcelines, independent of those of the earth's, to provide unfettered vertical movement as and when the mathematics develops. However, the U.S. approach is rather to put money into fundamental theoretical physics of gravitation in an effort first to create the local gravitation field. Working rigs would follow in the wake of the basic discoveries. Probably the correct course would be to sponsor both approaches, and it is now time that the military stepped in with big funds. The trouble about the idealistic approach to gravity is that the aircraft companies do not have the men to conduct such work. There is every expectation in any case that the companies likely to find the answers lie outside the aviation field. These would emerge as the masters of aviation in its broadest sense. The feeling is therefore that a company like A. T. & T. is most likely to be first in this field. This giant company (unknown in the air and weapons field) has already revolutionized modern warfare with the development of the junction transistor and is expected to find the final answers to absolute vehicle levitation. This therefore is where the bulk of the sponsoring money should go. Aviation Report 9 December 1955 *** Now. Maybe someone can explain what AT&T's invention of the transistor and antigravity have in common? This seems to be a strange thing to mention as an accomplishment related to anti-gravity does it not? This firm seems impressed with AT&T's ability to produce the first transistor as if it was done for military applications. Maybe it was. Maybe they were impressed with AT&T's ability to back-engineer technology for military applications. -bob tarantino
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 1998 MUFON Symposium From: Michael Curta <UFOMedic@net1comm.com> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 00:23:35 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 10:36:50 -0400 Subject: 1998 MUFON Symposium For information on the 1998 MUFON Symposium to be held in Denver, Colorado, Please see http://www.net1comm.com/~COMUFON1
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Writers & Fees [was: The Question of UFO From: Ted Viens <drtedv@smart1.net> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 03:39:35 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 10:39:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Writers & Fees [was: The Question of UFO > From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 14:36:55 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > ---snippety--- > (Large snip) > Hello John Velez: > You made me think about how many writers I actually do know, in ufology, > academia, and as journalists. I must be hangin' with the good ones > because they all make money on their writings. There was only one writer > I know personally who told me they didn't make any money on their writing > and it was Phil Klass. (Anybody who knows Phil, knows I'm telling the > truth here!<G>) So go figure. > BB Phil must have very foolishly failed to receive royalty on the vast number of hi s books that Prometheus contributed to libraries around the country. His failure to capitalize on his writings must mostly be his own fault... Bye... Ted..
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli From: Michael Wayne Malone <wayne@HiWAAY.net> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 04:57:40 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 10:43:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli >Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:07:12 -0400 >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Dear Mr. Shell, You and I have disagreed on many things over the years. I think we have agreed somewhat as well, but I have never doubted your expertise in film and photography. I thank you for your efforts. I have a few questions, and I hope I'm not insulting you with the simplisity of them. I am trying to clarify things in my own mind. > All we know from Professor Malanga's tests, as I verified personally > with him when I saw him in Italy earlier this year, is that this sample > film from Santilli is on the older base. So it was made prior to > 1957. So what is being said is the material in the COPY was made by kodak prior to 1957, not that the AA Film itself is pre-1957, right? > Now, this film could keep for many years because, as you note, it is > very slow (insensitive) copy film, and this sort of film stores well > for extended periods even without refrigeration. > However, after 1957, the chemical process for this older film was > discontinued. So to expose and process this film at a later date would > require not only finding pre-1957 copy film in usable condition, but > also would require mixing up the older versions of the chemicals from > scratch. This is not impossible, since the formulae and raw chemicals > can be had, but makes the whole proposition more complicated. One could > not simply expose the old print film and carry it in to an ordinary > photo lab for processing. > Ray Santilli obviously has access to someone who can handle processing > of such old film, since the unrelated roll that Mike Hesemann bought from > a lady in Roswell was given by him to Ray for processing, and after > processing was given to me for forwarding to Kodak who dated the film > to 1945. Kodak noted that it had apparently been processed properly. I am unaware of this 1945 film. What is it supposed to show and where can I get more information? And you are saying, if I can paraphrase you correctly, that Ray Santilli has the capability to process pre-1957 film correctly, right? > So, all that being said, testing of any sort performed on the copy > film will be inconclusive, and will get us nowhere. Professor > Malanga has already told us all that can be learned from this film. And Professor Malanga can only testify to the stock of the copy of the AA film, if I understand you correctly. No one has, as of yet, testified to the stock of the original film, right? The only film peices given out is copies of the original and those copies seem to be on pre-1957 stock but may have been developed and expoused as recently as the early 1990s or as far back as the late 1940s. Is that a fair statement? Michael Malone
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:58:09 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 11:42:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors >Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 13:06:35 -0400 (EDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors Mike, I have no doubt that there were UFO crashes prior to the one at Socorro at the end of May in 1947. I, too, have talked to sources who have vague information about crashes in 1945 and possibly earlier. It is also possible that one was downed during the war in Europe. But you have to realize that most of us who are doing research are limited to doing it part time and with limited funds. To go chasing after such a vague story as you have presented seems unlikely to be productive. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: HONEYBE100@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 06:51:51 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 11:32:12 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu (Barbara Becker) >Date: Mon, 08 Sept 1997 15:57:30 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymit Hi Errol & everyone! Barbara Becker wrote: >Linda: >I have read your post and I just don't get it. I just don't understand >that if you wanted anonymity why you would go to New Mexico. If >you wanted to see what MUFON was like you could have gone to >a local meeting or bought a subscription to the JOURNAL. Barbara: You've kept asking me on previous posts, why I haven't answered certain questions that you've asked. Do you think I didn't answer you because I have no answers? Or perhaps, I might be guilty of a crime? I haven't answered certain questions that you've asked me because I didn't want to dignify them with an answer. Another reason being, I needed to stop myself from embarrassing you. But since you're so pushy and you don't have the same consideration, then, why should I? >Yes, you are correct. EVERYONE in ufology knew about Hopkins >BIG case in NY. This was HIS BIG one. You were his PROOF. >(But to my knowledge only a few people at that time knew your real >name). According to your account he coerced you up on stage. If >If you were thinking no one knew you (at this point you are truly >anonymous which iss what you say you wanted) then why did you go up on stage to say "Hello." This doesn't make sense. You believe >you have anonymity. You register under a pseudonym, no one >knows your real name. No one knows that the person attending the >conference wit Hopkins is the subject of his new book, nor at this >point do they have the vaguest idea what Linda C. looks like, so you >step up on stage to say hello. Now not only is everyone aware of >your existence but they now know what you look like. Im sorry but >this doesnt make sense. This is not correct behavior for someone >who wants anonymity. >BB Gee whiz, Barbara. You're sounding very angry. I think there's more than meets the eye, here, with your resentful attitude. If you'd like to have some of the attention I've been getting, you're welcomed to it. Basically, I think that you're implying that I'm not sincere. Well, if that's the case, that's just too bad about you. You also seem to have a problem with those who make money, whether they are writers, researchers, abductess or investigators. Are you unemployed? Or are you a skeptic that believes that most everyone in this field, is in it for the money? You seem to think that you know everything. I don't know, maybe you do. But I've never met a person who does know it all. You give me the impression that, you think you know what I have been thinking, what I've been doing and the reasons why! You must be a wanna-be mind reader or something. After all, I don't know you from Adam. Your Majesty and sovereign power, I'm sorry that my behavior doesn't meet with your approval. Sorry Elizabeth, "I am, what I am." You have said that you've read my posts and yet, you keep repeating that this, or that, doesn't make sense to you. If you've really read my posts and they still don't make sense to you, I'll guess you'll never know, huh? Barbara?... If you were a bird, you'd probably fly backwards. Linda Cortile
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Writers & Fees [was: The Question of UFO From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:58:11 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 11:45:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Writers & Fees [was: The Question of UFO >From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] >Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 15:15:49 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity Barbara, I do think it is important to shatter the stereotype many people have about how much money someone makes from a book. I don't mean by this that people aren't influenced by money. Certainly not. I became a writer in the first place to make a living at it, and only realized later just how hard that really is. In an unrelated message posted here today, I see that someone is offering abductees $100 a week to spill their guts for a book. Now for me $100 a week would not serve as an incentive to do much of anything, but for many that may represent a lot of money, and making a public posting of such an offer is like saying "calling all wackos and nutcases. I'll pay you to invent weird stories for me." I'd never pay someone to be interviewed for a book. This is bad journalism and a violation of basic journalistic ethics. So, what we seem to be asking here is if Linda made money from Budd's book, and if so how much. Am I right? My guess on this would be that if she did have an agreement with Budd to share the proceeds from the book, then neither of them would have gotten very much. Think about it this way. In the case of most books, the author will make around a dollar per copy in actual clear profits after paying the agent his/her fees. Now if you sell a million copies, that ain't bad. But most books sell in the thousands. So, say it takes a couple of years of real work to write a book, and it ends up selling 20,000 copies. The author has worked for less than minimum wage!!!! And if that has to be split with someone else............ Need I say more? Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Writers & Fees [was: The Question of UFO From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:58:21 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 11:47:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Writers & Fees [was: The Question of UFO >Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 17:40:44 -0700 >From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) >To: Updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >Phil Klass has written a lot of books and he charges for his monthly UFO >newsletter SUN. Would you help validate your claim here by telling us >where the money goes from the sales of Phil's literature or naming the >charity? >Does this go to a CSICOP fund? If so which one? I can't speak for Phil, but I doubt that he meant that he doesn't make ANY money from his writing. I'm sure he hasn't made a lot. Putting out a newsletter like his isn't cheap. I've been there and done that, and know that most newsletters like this generate either no profit at all or run at a loss. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:58:19 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 11:46:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 >Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 17:36:46 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 As a veteran user of carbide lanterns, I'd like to make a technical correction here. You do not burn carbide to make light. Carbide is a substance which is usually sold in lumps or chunks. When placed in water, it bubbles and releases acetylene gas. Carbide lanterns either have a metal can to hold the water and carbide or you wear the can on your waist and there is a hose carrying the acetylene to the lantern. We used to use these for outdoor hiking at night and for occasional cave exploring when I was a teenager. Because it uses an open flame, a carbide lantern will cause an explosion in a methane-filled mine. I doubt you'd want carbide lanterns on a hydrogen-filled Zeppelin!!!!! Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 From: frizzell@umbc.edu (mike frizzell) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 09:49:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 11:48:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 >Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 17:36:46 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 >>Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 22:33:10 +0100 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 >>> There were also carbide and oil lamps in use at that time. >>Not in any airplane before the twenties, at least that's my take on the >>info. I'm a pilot and an airplane buff anyway. I've seen alot of >>antiques in my day and recall seeing nothing in the way of lighting >>systems in the machines of the teens and twenties. I have no doubt that >>airships had the room but suspect some type of low level lights strictly >>for cabin purposes during the bombing raids over London during WW I. >>Carbide lights would imply generators for the high current, and oil >>lights in a hydrogen filled gas bag sounds doubtful to me. What I'm >>saying is if any of these sightings of airships from 1894 til say 1910 >>or 1915 reported brilliant lights as are the case nowadays, then you >>could rule out the manmade versions in use at that time. The power was >>just not there. >No, Don, I 'm talking about the type of carbide which miners use on their >hard hats for underground. It was a sulfer type powder, which they burned. >It gave off a bright light but was extreemely portable. >You are aware that in these underground pockets there are occasionally >methane gas pockets found. So, I don't know if burning carbide would >cause an explosion or not. Now days, they use battery powered lamps. FYI: Carbide lamps use calcium carbide and water as reactants to produce acetylene gas. This highly flammable gas is slightly pressurized within the lamp housing and trained through a fine orifice, which is centered within a highly polished reflector. Once ignited, such a lamp can produce a respectable amount of light. Mike Frizzell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 09:20:53 PDT Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 11:52:46 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 15:15:49 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > To all: > I think the issue is lost in this conversation. Whether or not any of > you (writers) become RICH is not the point. (I know you'd like to > but....) The point is that once money becomes involved things look > different. Things happen differently. > If Linda C felt strongly about her story then why not write her own > book, use her pseudonym, vanity press it and that be the end of it. > There are quite a few abductees who have done just that. They knew they > werent going to get rich, in fact it probably cost them, but they were > true to themselves, most used their own names, some didnt. > The question is: Why did you write a book with Budd Hopkins? If you > didnt want the high profile, why go with Hokpins?? And how much were you > paid? (I need to catch up on my mail but I dont see that you have > answered that previously asked question.) And BTW Linda, because > someone doesnt believe you doesnt make them a debunker. Thats just > handwaving. > BB Hello, everybody, It is not up to us to decide, post facto, under what circumstances we will honor a witness' expressed desire not to have his or her name bandied about the world. Linda's choices are her own, and if she chose to appear in public as "Linda Cortile," that's her decision, and it must be respected. If she chose to have Budd Hopkins tell her story, that's also her choice. And if she made enough money from it all to get some dental work done, fine. Or have we become a cult of puritans? People who have had unusual experiences in more mainstream contexts are cashing in all the time. It's only UFO witnesses who are immediately suspect if they are offered, and accept, a few bucks. And "a few bucks" pretty much describes what Linda got. Can we get off this one? If we can no longer promise a witness anonymity because down the line somebody may decree that he or she doesn't deserve it, then let me be the first to urge that no UFO witnesses desiring privacy step forward ever again. Especially in these days when the trashing of witnesses (not to mention colleagues) has become a blood sport in some quarters of ufology. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 12:03:35 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 12:03:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net >Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 09:20:53 PDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >Hello, everybody, >It is not up to us to decide, post facto, under what circumstances >we will honor a witness' expressed desire not to have his or her >name bandied about the world. Linda's choices are her own, and >if she chose to appear in public as "Linda Cortile," that's her >decision, and it must be respected. If she chose to have Budd >Hopkins tell her story, that's also her choice. And if she made >enough money from it all to get some dental work done, fine. Or >have we become a cult of puritans? People who have had >unusual experiences in more mainstream contexts are cashing in >all the time. It's only UFO witnesses who are immediately suspect >if they are offered, and accept, a few bucks. And "a few bucks" >pretty much describes what Linda got. Can we get off this one? [snipped] Having been up most of the night wrasslin' a 'Plug & Pray' sound card/software and rising after a mere three-hours of sleep, I found m'self in grumpy-geezer mode as I got into today's List - copying, pasting and posting. Y'know - the "God, how do I end this thread?", mode. The inestimable Jerome, has I think, brought this one home..... End of thread - please! ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Alfred's Odd Ode #179 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 10:59:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 12:31:58 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #179 Apology to MW #179 (For September 9, 1997) Just tell me what the deal is! Be up front with me! Tell me what you're thinking, And sail courageous seas! Life is short, so we live lies? Long lives would stand against them=85 As time goes on your lie's found out, And your lifestyle's in contention? Just tell me what your thoughts are, And don't avoid those darkened corners. Just show some real courage, And for your _self_ be an informer. Spend ANY time outside at night -- Just keep on looking up? And SEE the damnedest things appear, "It ain't no coffee cup." Most folks think there's something In the night, and day skies, too. These are the educated motes Believing that it's true. Christ, you can see it on the TV -- The Hubble's stellar reaches=85 The planets numbered grains of sand On a million planet's beaches! And ET life should not surprise us! It is just no different than Seeing smoke across wide rivers Where we thought no folks lived then=85 Drake works out equations, And assumptive though it is, Its suggestion rather strongly There _are_ aliens we dismiss. And I know the change is scary When we know just based on us -- What WE do when WE visit Someone not as strong as us! We subjugate the natives. We domesticate the few. The rest we treat like animals. We've cooked some up for stew! As it comes to that we'd fight them. But the inverse could be true! It could be that they're asking us To widen up our view. All we _want_ is satisfaction. And that can't be bought with money. Raw wealth and pleasure palace Is an empty place spun funny. Just tell me what you're doing! Tell me where the money goes. I make the world you live in. I want answers to my toes! Lehmberg@snowhill.com You'd say I don't want to know=85I'd say you don't _want_ me to know. Does it mean more autonomy for the individual? Would it mean that the individual could more easily secede from institutions and organizations. I think _most_ people are driven into isolation, from a perceived threat. People _want_ to get along, and must be trained, and otherwise convinced to go the other way. A good, credible deal is just not perceived from comfortable bunky apologists, and they are in fact the root cause of ALL the unshared misery fountaining from a lack of respect, and individual responsibility, across the board. Yeah, I broad brush, but a lot of the paint still sticks. -- Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for wanting to cut to the chase. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" Personal HARASSMENT; however, the harassment index is infinite for each of us. Consider the mainstream academic.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 12:38:54 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 12:57:43 -0400 Subject: Re: >From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] >Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 22:42:42 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >I think it would be more appropriate for an "experiencer" to seek out a >qualified therapist, someone familiar with the syndrome, preferably in >the UFO field I'm not sure I agree that the hypnotist should be in the UFO field. It would be preferable (for theraputic reasons), and more credible as well, to have a hypnotist who was not in the field. This is one reason that the Hill case has retained a special status for so many years, and it may, as well, be the reason that the Hills emerged from the theraputic process fairly well adjusted to the trauma of their experience. In addition, I have read some comment, which I generally agree with, indicating that the qualities required from the hypnotist for an abduction hypnosis session are not entirely theraputic. First, there is the issue of whether the witness is describing objective truth. This would seem to require a forensic psychiatry background. Second is the potentially violent emotional reaction of the abductee to the experience, which requires a certain amount of theraputic background, preferably with abuse / rape cases. I would imagine that the combination of these two skill sets in one individual is relatively rare. It seems to me from a casual reading of the abduction literature, that the emphasis has been largely on the second aspect of the abduction, but that the first - the objective truth aspect - has been somewhat neglected. While discussion of IFOs is de rigeur in UFO studies, I have seen nothing of the sort in abduction studies. I perhaps have asked this before, but I don't recall there being a clear answer: what proportion of hypnotically elicited or consciously recalled abduction accounts can be attributed to some cause other than actual abduction? If we don't know that, or the figures are soft, it is yet another sign that forensic psychiatrists are needed in the investigations. Keith Basterfield wrote recently on UFO-L about the studies of FPP (Fantasy Prone Personality) (I believe by CUFOS) and its relation to abductions, with the conclusion of those studies performed so far being that FPP could not account for all abductions. But can anyone answer whether these studies found any proportion of abductions which could be attributed to FPP? Finally, it seems to me that there are several possible scenarios to account for any specific abduction account revealed through hypnosis 1) An abduction actually occurred 2) The hypnotist caused the witness to confabulate some or all of the experience 3) The witness confabulated some or all of the experience out of a desire to please the investigator and / or the hypnotist 4) The witness is FPP 5) The witness is affected by some other psychological disorder, possibly previously unknown Obviously it is critical to distinguish between these, but since a UFO-knowledgable hypnotist could bias the result incorrectly toward (1) or to a (2/3) whose likelihood will not be able to be determined, and may not perform the tests required to establish (4/5), it seems to me that a UFO-knowledgable hypnotist is undesirable for reasons of determining the objective truth of the account. From the viewpoint of therapy, it seems to me that the only time UFO knowledge is beneficial is in therapy related to (1). Any other time, such therapy could emphasize the reality of a confabulated or fantasized experience and would actually be counterproductive. Of course, I'm only an interested layman with regard to psychiatry, so I certainly would be interested in the comments of any professional psychiatrists with regard to the above opinions. If anyone is interested in the recent post on FPP and abductions, I could post it to the list. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: wlmss@peg.apc.org [Lawrie Williams] Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 04:09:02 +1000 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 16:46:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 03:05:32 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Zeta Notso Ridiculous >>From: wlmss@peg.apc.org [Lawrie Williams] >>Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 21:02:33 +1000 >>To: ufo-l@mb.protree.com, updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Zeta Notso Ridiculous. lw>>I have been trying to unravel human mytho-history, which has suffered >>from fragmentation and poor translation..... >> Then there was a series of global catastrophes, part of the ongoing >> extinction event science is starting to recognize. It is likely to >> have been caused by supernova Vela. > Not yet verified, and 'others' have equally plausible theories to explain > the evidence of repeated 'extinctions' that the earth has experienced in > it's four and-a-half billion year old history. The Vela supernova is just > one of them.... I have no problem with that. Another contender is the advance wave of "fluff" that swept through here "recently" from the hot young stars in the direction of the far southern constellations. Another is that material orbiting a passing star was captured by the sun resulting in a series of catastrophic collisions within our solar system. This last is the explanation that has come down to us via the Egyptians. (BTW I cannot back this last one up, at least until I bring my old 486 hard drive back from the dead - not without retracing a lot of work.) lw>> As an interesting aside, the Pleiadies offers a particularly rich >> mix of extensive habitats because it is full of young stars formed >> from amidst the debris from an ancient supernova. Civilization would >> very likely thrive there if it is going to do well anywhere. > We're talking about young stars in the full throes of birth. When one of > those babies accumulates enough mass to ignite into a star it blows away > its surrounding cocoon of gas (that gave it life) and bathes the > surrounding space in deadly radiation. Not very habitable unless you happen > to own a really good OSHA approved radiation suit, or a sun block lotion > rated at 67,000. <G> I looked at this problem closer to home, in the Jovian and Saturnian systems. Around Saturn especially the region of the rings - with all their remarkable mysteries - are protected from hard radiation by the magnetic field of the planet itself. And way out there amidst the stars, like in the Pleiadies, even amidst the seething chaos of rapid blue giant evolution there are sure to be huge pockets of stability where life can thrive, regions where particle radiation is diverted by intense magnetic fields and U-V is screened out by gas and dust - and not necessarily only on planetary surfaces. I don't want anyone however to feel that I am plugging exclusively for the view that current UFO visitations are from Zeta reticuli and the Pleiadies! : ) I am saying it seems within the bounds of possibility. >> Astronomical observations indicate that most stars have a family of >> planets. > That, is information that is being gathered and analysed in a star by star > method that will take many decades to compile. You are probably right > although the 'fact' has yet to be proven...... It is surely significant that the only star system we have had an opportunity to study in detail has nine planets and at least one habitat capable of supporting humanoids who have developed space travel - namely us. >> Please excuse me if I generate any cognitive dissonance with this >> posting. This synthesis is not the product of idle fantasy but the >> result of many years of careful consideration. > It's a 'stretch' Lawrie, but then I don't know your sources. On top of > which, I've been telling folks that I'm being abducted by aliens so who > am I to judge another. <VBG> My sources include the internet, astronomy books, scientific journals and a helpful spirit who became extremely forthcoming after a long visit to a UFO hot spot. I extend to you my deepest respect for your courage in telling others how it is, no matter how bizarre it must sound to your colleagues and to the scientific community in general. The implications of these visitations are immense. If humans are being fitted out with some form of bionic transponder then it is likely that our perceptions become theirs and sometimes, alas for "abductees", vice versa. The ongoing coverup might reflect a very rational response by the military to this situation. This implies that even this list is being monitored by the Others through the eyes of myself and Mr Valez! I am hoping that more educated people will come forward and discuss their experiences. It is evident that the phenomenon is escalating faster than our institutions are capable of adapting to it. As for the debunkers and pseudo-skeptics, I would urge them to go outside now, rush down the street, and join the local chapter of the Flat Earth Society. You guys are being left faaaar behind. Lawrie Williams___________fair dinkum skeptic
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: wlmss@peg.apc.org [Lawrie Williams] Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 04:10:46 +1000 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 16:48:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:48:19 -0400 > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: wlmss@peg.apc.org [Lawrie Williams] >>Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 21:02:33 +1000 >>To: ufo-l@mb.protree.com, updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Zeta Notso Ridiculous. > Neanderthals resemble bigfoot???????? And just how would that be? Stand a hot dog alongside a bigfoot and a neandertal and you will see that, as the song goes: "One of these things Is not like the other...." > Neanderthals were about the body bulk as modern man, but shorter. > Bigfoot is invariably described as MUCH bigger and much taller. There is a huge range of variation in size in Homo sap. If we assume similar racial and geographical variations in neandertals and in bigfoot then that is not a problem, especially given the time and climatic changes that have occurred since. > There is no evidence that Neanderthals were covered head to toe in > long hair. Bigfoot always is. There is no evidence that he was not, either. It seems more likely, given the climate during that period. Also hairlessness is quite rare amongst the primates. There is no reason to assume neandertal was hairless just because humans are, or just because artists have always depicted him that way. > Neanderthals made and used tools. Bigfoot doesn't. Maybe we just do not understand the kind of tools this hypothetical neandertal cum bigfoot might now be using. Anyway, look at how our own tool use has changed in several thousand years. How much might Neandertal have changed in 30 000 years? Neandertal with his larger brain could have gone a long way. > This list could go on and on, but saying that Neanderthals > resemble Bigfoot is not accurate. In prehistory it seems as if both Homo sap and Homo neandertalis existed mainly in relatively small pockets of population. Our picture of how both of these groups evolved is far from complete. And beyond any direct link, a variety of other hominid strains no doubt existed close to the littoral zone, regions that were inundated at about the time that neandertal supposedly dwindled in number and homo sap began to thrive. We really only have a record of the montane varieties of both species because of the fantastic amount of water that seems to have been dumped on this planet (I knnow this will be disputed) at the end of the last ice age. We are now living on the hilltops of a drownded planet. Interestingly neandertal seems to have petered out in Spain and that is where modern man and those magnificent cave paintings put in their first appearnace, some 20 000 years later. For all we know in the period 40 000 - 20 000 B.P. they could have developed an advanced civilization including interstellar travel and advanced genetic engineering, just as homo sap is now doing. We must be open to the possibility that advanced hominids with time travel are now visiting us from the past. Maybe with catastrophe looming they decided to move forward into the future, say to about 2 000 AD. To do this they first got an inferior species to set up the infrastructure for them. But here I speculate wildly in my attempt to reconcile paleantology with observation. > BTW, most recent DNA analysis on Neanderthals indicates that they > were much more distantly related to us than used to be thought, and > apparently not part of our ancestry, not even distantly. Humans > and Neanderthals did not interbreed. I think you will find there's a variety of informed opinion on that issue as well. Whether they were direct descendants of neandertal or something else entirely, there are many references to "giants" with a higher civil- ization than ours prior to about 400 bc. But that is another story. Thanks for your thought-inspiring comments. Kind regards, Lawrie Williams___________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: wlmss@peg.apc.org [Lawrie Williams] Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 04:13:47 +1000 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 16:50:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:40:27 -0700 >> From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/7/97 10:05 AM: >> Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 03:05:32 -0500 >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Zeta Notso Ridiculous [was: UFO Beliefs - >> Question for Stan Friedman] lw> > >No reason why that system should be any different, although > >>it is believed planets are less likely in a twin star system though > >>I see no reason why worlds could not orbit the common centre of > >>gravity of *both* stars. jv>> It's something called 'tidal forces.' A planet caught between two stars >> would be torn apart repeatedly by the gravitational forces of the two >> primaries. There may be some 'rare' instances where a planetary body >> has achieved a stable orbit around two (or as some computer models show) >> even three primaries. But it is doubtful, the conditions required are very >> complicated. The primaries would have to be of the right size, star class, >> and distance from each other in order for the right conditions to exist. mc> However, I think it is clear that planetary accretion is unlikely > to occur in the first place within such areas. The "Roche Limit" is > a boundary beyond which a planet (I believe made of water?) would > be torn apart by tides. Objects such as Saturn's rings, which to > many represent an area similar to the early stages of the solar > neighborhood, never accrete planetoids beyond a certain size due to > such tidal effects. Perhaps you were being tongue in cheek. : ) Tidal forces of course refers to the differential tug of the gravity of a larger nearby body on either sides of the lesser body. As such, a solid body would be torn apart, although one made of sulphur or water or tar might not be. It would just be warmed instead, and that could be beneficial. I have not done the math but intuitively it seems to me that a twin star system could exist where the primaries are beyond one another's roche limit and the combined gravity and warmth of these stars could support a large family of planets orbiting both - again well beyond the roche limit. > So it would be possible to consider that planets in a multiple star system > would only form in areas where the tidal forces were such as to allow > accretion to occur, and thus would guarantee that the orbits of the resulting > bodies would never pass through areas with higher than Roche Limit tidal > forces. I feel we all make a lot of assumptions about where life can and cannot exist. The experience on this one little globe suggests that it can and does occur in all sorts of unlikely places. In our own solar system we have to consider as major contenders: underground on Venus (only recently creamed by a comet) next to the ice cap of Mars (an obvious place) within Europa (a big blob of water) on Titan (under its industrial smog) while Jupiter, Saturn and Triton are likely to provide suprises too. These are possible sources of a UFO culture within our own solar system. And there may be myriads more contenders in the Oort cloud..... Recent Hubble images show planet-sized gobbets of matter being scattered from giant stars. Perhaps there are a lot more life friendly habitats wandering out there in the darkness than formerly considered. Remember that 90% of the mass of the galaxy is as yet not accounted for. And while the roche limit might mean planets might be torn apart, planets near to the roche limit would enjoy warming and therefore zones of space near to brown dwarves might also be added to the list of places where life might occur. > However, to the best of my knowledge, simulations even of our solar > system (single sun) forming planets remain primitive, and no doubt > the multiple star case would be even more difficult. At any rate, I > think that my best guess is that planets will never form at all in > situations where there are no contiguous orbits free of Roche Limit > level tides. The question then becomes whether there are such orbits > in multiple star systems. I would imagine that that might be a > simpler computation than a complete simulation, since it just > involves determining whether an orbit can fall into the area not > intersected by any of the stars' Roche Limit spheres. Getting back to Saturn, here we have a possible habitat within the ring system itself. So the Roche limit, far from precluding life, might actually foster life which has developed technology. Lawrie Williams________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Historical Organizations: CSI (LA) From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 13:03:58 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 16:52:09 -0400 Subject: Historical Organizations: CSI (LA) CIVILIAN SAUCER INVESTIGATIONS (LOS ANGELES) Civilian Saucer Investigations (Los Angeles), Civilian Saucer Investigations (New Zealand), and Civilian Saucer Intelligence (New York), were three unrelated UFO organizations, established in the 1950s by serious individuals. The science editor of the New York Herald-Tribune had advised that such organizations should be formed to collect and study UFO. In light of the government's apathy in 1950 and 1951 a number of such groups with grandiose goals were formed. CSI (LA): In late 1951 several scientists, aviation engineers, and others in California formed a UFO study group. Edward J. Sullivan, a North American Aviation employee, was the sparkplug of the organization. Walther Riedel, a German rocket scientist was prominent member. A sensational--for its time--article in LIFE magazine "Have We Visitors from Space?" in 1952 briefly mentioned the CSI (LA) group. They received huge amounts of mail and hundreds of UFO reports from all over the world. CSI shared a number of these reports with Captain Ruppelt at ATIC. While I have not looked at all the 1952 documents, I have not found if the Air Force took any copies. The Air Force also received an avalanche of mail as a result of the LIFE magazine article which is preserved on two microfilm rolls. LIFE magazine also acknowledged that they received a huge response. Again, the Air Force looked at some of the reports received by LIFE magazine. Again, it does not look like copies were made. The LIFE magazine material has remained unavailable to researchers With this large database handed to them on a silver platter, CSI had an instant archives of UFO reports going back the late 19th Century. However, as every serious part time UFO organization would find out correspondence, newsletter publication, and administrative duties eat up the majority of time. Soon the goals of the organization were buried under a mountainous pile of paperwork having nothing to do with research. CSI (LA) was one of the first to encounter this problem. By 1954 after producing only 4 newsletters CSI (LA) ceased operations. The CSI (NY) publication would later call CSI (LA), the best UFO organization. Any praise form Alexander Mebane, Isabel Davis, and Ted Bloecher of CSI (NY) is great praise indeed. The CSI (LA) files containing almost 1000 first hand sightings reports were transferred through several hands and ended up at NICAP. When CUFOS received the NICAP files, the majority of the CSI (LA) sighting files were intact. Some items were missing, probably taken out and not refiled later. Copies of some of this missing material has been found in others' files. So actual missing material is probably small. CSI(LA) had a panel that met to evaluate cases. This was an interesting, but time consuming task. By 1954, they were looking for some other organization or individual to take on this task. Pioneers do not often receive their due. Many CSI (LA) reports were used in the UFO EVIDENCE, Volume 1, and thereby contributed to serious consideration of the UFO problem. To think that conspiracy freaks and UFO jerks who make unsupported outrageous charges exist only in today's ufology would be incorrect. Sullivan was subjected to a scurrilous attack in the American Mercury magazine by an early CSI (LA) member who accused Sullivan of starting a "religio-scientific cult" as a "get rich quick scheme." Everything but the kitchen sink was thrown at Sullivan who had reached into his own pocket to support the organization. (The more things change the more they remain the same.) (See: Jerome Clark's THE UFO ENCYCLOPEDIA Vol 2, page 84.) Jan Aldrich Project 1947 ------------------------- Index: Early UFO History (1940-64)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Orlando, Florida Hotel Name? From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 06:57:09 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 16:54:29 -0400 Subject: Orlando, Florida Hotel Name? Desar colleagues, Does anyone out there know of a hotel in Orlando, Florida by the name of the 'DELPHIN HOTEL' ? This is something that came up a while back in regaqrds to the Santilli film. This hotel, or one with a similar sounding name, was where a representative from Polygram allegedly stayed while en-route to try and meet the AA film cameraman. The meeting did not take place, but finding the hotel might help us narrow down the search area. All the best, Philip.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Mars Global Surveyor Arrival Events Live on NASA TV From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 16:08:39 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 17:05:34 -0400 Subject: Mars Global Surveyor Arrival Events Live on NASA TV Douglas Isbell Headquarters, Washington, DC September 9, 1997 (Phone: 202/358-1753) Franklin O'Donnell / Diane Ainsworth Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA (Phone: 818/354-5011) NOTE TO EDITORS: N97-66 MARS GLOBAL SURVEYOR ARRIVAL EVENTS LIVE ON NASA TV Operations in support of the arrival of NASA's Mars Global Surveyor (MGS) spacecraft in orbit around the red planet on Sept. 11 will be shown live this week on NASA Television. The propulsion system aboard MGS was pressurized successfully earlier today in preparation for this event. Coverage of the key events on arrival day, Thursday, Sept. 11, will begin at 8 p.m. EDT with a status briefing originating from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), Pasadena, CA. A signal indicating the start of the 22-minute burn of the main rocket engine on MGS should be received on Earth at 9:31 p.m. EDT. A post-engine burn news briefing is scheduled for approximately 10:40 p.m. EDT. Mission coverage will feature live commentary and views of mission control rooms at JPL and at Lockheed Martin Astronautics Corp., Denver, CO. Daily status briefings on preparations for the orbital arrival of MGS will be presented live on NASA TV from JPL at 1 p.m. EDT on Wednesday, Sept. 10, and Thursday, Sept. 11. Working in partnership with the Mars Pathfinder lander, MGS represents the beginning of a sustained series of robotic missions to Mars over at least the next decade. The spacecraft carries six scientific instruments designed to provide a comprehensive map of the surface, atmosphere and interior. The two-year science mission of MGS is scheduled to begin in March 1998 following four months of orbital dips through the upper atmosphere of Mars to reach the mapping orbit in a process called aerobraking. NASA Television is located on GE-2, transponder 9C at 85 degrees West longitude, vertical polarization, with a frequency of 3880 Mhz, and audio of 6.8 Mhz. News media representatives can call 818/354-6170 for an audio feed of the briefings. -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Writers & Fees From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:40:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 17:10:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Writers & Fees Do writers make money? > From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 14:36:55 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Writers & Fees > You made me think about how many writers I actually do know, in ufology, > academia, and as journalists. I must be hangin' with the good ones > because they all make money on their writings. There was only one writer > I know personally who told me they didn't make any money on their writing > and it was Phil Klass. (Anybody who knows Phil, knows I'm telling the > truth here!<G>) So go figure. > BB I've made my living from writing for a good many years. But then I've written for mainstream publications, newspapers, magazines, and the like. When I write for the Wall Street Journal or the Los Angeles Times, I get paid. When I write for IUR, the CUFOS publication...zilch. And it's books that really kick a writer in the gut, pay-wise. Yes, you get money for writing them. You get an advance. But normally the advance doesn't begin to pay for the work the book requires. If you spent an equivalent amount of time doing your normal work, you'd get paid far, far, FAR more. And normally you don't see another penny past the advance. Think about it. Most writers (including ufologists) get very low advances -- $5000 to $15,000, let's say. And their books might take six months or more of full-time work to write. This is NOT lavish pay. As I've said here before, many writers in effect take a loss for writing a book. They give up other work that would pay more, or they give up their free time. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Hypnotic testimony From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 12:38:54 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 17:11:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Hypnotic testimony >From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] >Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 22:42:42 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >I think it would be more appropriate for an "experiencer" to seek out a >qualified therapist, someone familiar with the syndrome, preferably in >the UFO field I'm not sure I agree that the hypnotist should be in the UFO field. It would be preferable (for theraputic reasons), and more credible as well, to have a hypnotist who was not in the field. This is one reason that the Hill case has retained a special status for so many years, and it may, as well, be the reason that the Hills emerged from the theraputic process fairly well adjusted to the trauma of their experience. In addition, I have read some comment, which I generally agree with, indicating that the qualities required from the hypnotist for an abduction hypnosis session are not entirely theraputic. First, there is the issue of whether the witness is describing objective truth. This would seem to require a forensic psychiatry background. Second is the potentially violent emotional reaction of the abductee to the experience, which requires a certain amount of theraputic background, preferably with abuse / rape cases. I would imagine that the combination of these two skill sets in one individual is relatively rare. It seems to me from a casual reading of the abduction literature, that the emphasis has been largely on the second aspect of the abduction, but that the first - the objective truth aspect - has been somewhat neglected. While discussion of IFOs is de rigeur in UFO studies, I have seen nothing of the sort in abduction studies. I perhaps have asked this before, but I don't recall there being a clear answer: what proportion of hypnotically elicited or consciously recalled abduction accounts can be attributed to some cause other than actual abduction? If we don't know that, or the figures are soft, it is yet another sign that forensic psychiatrists are needed in the investigations. Keith Basterfield wrote recently on UFO-L about the studies of FPP (Fantasy Prone Personality) (I believe by CUFOS) and its relation to abductions, with the conclusion of those studies performed so far being that FPP could not account for all abductions. But can anyone answer whether these studies found any proportion of abductions which could be attributed to FPP? Finally, it seems to me that there are several possible scenarios to account for any specific abduction account revealed through hypnosis 1) An abduction actually occurred 2) The hypnotist caused the witness to confabulate some or all of the experience 3) The witness confabulated some or all of the experience out of a desire to please the investigator and / or the hypnotist 4) The witness is FPP 5) The witness is affected by some other psychological disorder, possibly previously unknown Obviously it is critical to distinguish between these, but since a UFO-knowledgable hypnotist could bias the result incorrectly toward (1) or to a (2/3) whose likelihood will not be able to be determined, and may not perform the tests required to establish (4/5), it seems to me that a UFO-knowledgable hypnotist is undesirable for reasons of determining the objective truth of the account. From the viewpoint of therapy, it seems to me that the only time UFO knowledge is beneficial is in therapy related to (1). Any other time, such therapy could emphasize the reality of a confabulated or fantasized experience and would actually be counterproductive. Of course, I'm only an interested layman with regard to psychiatry, so I certainly would be interested in the comments of any professional psychiatrists with regard to the above opinions. If anyone is interested in the recent post on FPP and abductions, I could post it to the list. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:57:46 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 17:13:27 -0400 Subject: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity [_This_ is the last post on the thread - ebk] Eeek! This discussion of Linda's financial interest is getting out of hand. : > From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 15:15:49 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > If Linda C felt strongly about her story then why not write her own > > book, use her pseudonym, vanity press it and that be the end of it. > > There are quite a few abductees who have done just that. They knew > they > werent going to get rich, in fact it probably cost them, but they > were > true to themselves, most used their own names, some didnt. > > The question is: Why did you write a book with Budd Hopkins? If you > > didnt want the high profile, why go with Hokpins?? And how much were > you > paid? Let's at least get the sequence of events right. Budd Hopkins, an established UFO researcher, had published two books when he began working with Linda. She came to him the way many people do -- because she saw one of his books in a bookstore, and thought he might be able to help her. She wasn't looking to tell a story, and in fact didn't know she had any extraordinary story to tell. The full extent of her case wasn't known. As the case developed, it was natural for Budd to want to write a book about it. After all, he'd written two already. Linda's case was a natural subject for the third. So it was Budd who wanted to tell Linda's story, not Linda who decided to tell her story through Budd. Of course, if Linda had strongly objected to having the story told, I imagine Budd wouldn't have written the book. And as for Linda writing her own, why on earth would she want to do that? She's not a writer, and here she had an experienced one, a leading light in the field, someone she knew and trusted, who wanted to write the book on his own. And now for the money. It's amazing how a generous impulse has been poked, prodded, isunderstood, and perverted into an object of suspicion. Budd, setting out to write the book, felt bad that he'd make money from Linda's story, without Linda having any share of it. So he offered her part of it. What on earth is wrong with that? Linda didn't ask for the money, and, as I understand, was reluctant to accept it. If there's something irregular here, I'll go to my grave never understanding what it is. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Orlando, Florida Hotel Name? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 18:14:30 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 21:00:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Orlando, Florida Hotel Name? >Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 06:57:09 +0000 >From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: HOTEL Philip, I thought we had talked about this some time ago. I bought the Orlando telephone book, both white and yellow pages, when we first started looking for Jack in that area. There is no Delphin hotel in the Orlando phone book. Also, there is no Dolphin hotel either. An fact, in the D section, there is only Day's Inn, Delta, Disney, and Doubletree. No luck there. Another false lead. BTW, Reg Presley insists that Ray told him the cameraman's name was Jack Bartlett. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Orlando, Florida Hotel Name? From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 19:23:53 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 21:03:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Orlando, Florida Hotel Name? At 04:54 PM 9/9/97 -0400, Philip Mantle wrote: >Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 06:57:09 +0000 >From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: HOTEL >Desar colleagues, >Does anyone out there know of a hotel in Orlando, Florida by the name of >the 'DELPHIN HOTEL' ? >This is something that came up a while back in regaqrds to the Santilli >film. This hotel, or one with a similar sounding name, was where a >representative from Polygram allegedly stayed while en-route to try and >meet the AA film cameraman. The meeting did not take place, but finding >the hotel might help us narrow down the search area. I live in the Central Florida area . The Orlando phone book shows no specific listing for a 'Delphin' hotel. The hotel listings jump from 'Days Inn" to "Doubletree". However, Disney World DOES have a hotel on it's premises called "Walt Disney World Dolphin". This is probably close enough to qualify for a "similar sounding name". The number is 1-800-227-1500 Don
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson] Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 19:58:30 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 21:05:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 >Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 09:49:17 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: frizzell@umbc.edu (mike frizzell) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 >>Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 17:36:46 -0400 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 >>>Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 22:33:10 +0100 >>>From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 >>>> There were also carbide and oil lamps in use at that time. >>>Not in any airplane before the twenties, at least that's my take on the >>>info. I'm a pilot and an airplane buff anyway. I've seen alot of >>>antiques in my day and recall seeing nothing in the way of lighting >>>systems in the machines of the teens and twenties. I have no doubt that >>>airships had the room but suspect some type of low level lights strictly >>>for cabin purposes during the bombing raids over London during WW I. >>>Carbide lights would imply generators for the high current, and oil >>>lights in a hydrogen filled gas bag sounds doubtful to me. What I'm >>>saying is if any of these sightings of airships from 1894 til say 1910 >>>or 1915 reported brilliant lights as are the case nowadays, then you >>>could rule out the manmade versions in use at that time. The power was >>>just not there. >>No, Don, I 'm talking about the type of carbide which miners use on their >>hard hats for underground. It was a sulfer type powder, which they burned. >>It gave off a bright light but was extreemely portable. >>You are aware that in these underground pockets there are occasionally >>methane gas pockets found. So, I don't know if burning carbide would >>cause an explosion or not. Now days, they use battery powered lamps. >FYI: >Carbide lamps use calcium carbide and water as reactants to produce >acetylene gas. This highly flammable gas is slightly pressurized within the >lamp housing and trained through a fine orifice, which is centered within a >highly polished reflector. Once ignited, such a lamp can produce a >respectable amount of light. >Mike Frizzell List members, Why couldn't they have used battery operated lights? Georges Lelanche invented the zinc-carbon battery in 1868 and Thomas A. Edison invented the light bulb in 1880. Elmer Sperry invented the arc light, which required a generator, in 1880. Dynamos and generators were around since the late 18th century. In 1872 Paul Haelein built the first airship powered by an internal combustion engine using gas from inside the balloon. Drew Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 18:59:40 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 21:16:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/9/97 4:46 PM: > From: wlmss@peg.apc.org [Lawrie Williams] > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 04:09:02 +1000 > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > It is surely significant that the only star system we have had an > opportunity to study in detail has nine planets and at least one > habitat capable of supporting humanoids who have developed space > travel - namely us. This is an instance of what's called the "anthropic principle" and you have to watch out for it. In the "weak anthropic principle", which I tend to agree with, the reason the solar system is the home to life which can understand it is that this is a place where conditions allow life to survive and evolve, eventually arriving at intelligent creatures. Obviously, we could not exist in a solar system where conditions were too hostile for that to occur, thus it is not surprising that we are here, but it does not prove that life exists anywhere else. The "strong anthropic principle" is nearly religious. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing, and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 19:18:39 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 21:24:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > From: wlmss@peg.apc.org [Lawrie Williams] > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 04:13:47 +1000 > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > mc> However, I think it is clear that planetary accretion is unlikely > > to occur in the first place within such areas. The "Roche Limit" is > > a boundary beyond which a planet (I believe made of water?) would > > be torn apart by tides. Objects such as Saturn's rings, which to > > many represent an area similar to the early stages of the solar > > neighborhood, never accrete planetoids beyond a certain size due to > > such tidal effects. > Perhaps you were being tongue in cheek. : ) Tidal forces of course > refers to the differential tug of the gravity of a larger nearby > body on either sides of the lesser body. As such, a solid body > would be torn apart, although one made of sulphur or water or > tar might not be. It would just be warmed instead, and that > could be beneficial. Nope, its just the math. And, actually, a liquid body is much more vulnerable to tidal disruption than a solid body. The limit for solid bodies is much closer to the disrupting body than the Roche limit, as is evidenced by the rings of Saturn. > I have not done the math but intuitively it seems to me that a twin > star system could exist where the primaries are beyond one another's > roche limit and the combined gravity and warmth of these stars could > support a large family of planets orbiting both - again well beyond > the roche limit. Yes, this is certainly possible, and was what I meant by... > >So it would be possible to consider that planets in a multiple star system > >would only form in areas where the tidal forces were such as to allow > >accretion to occur, and thus would guarantee that the orbits of the > >resulting bodies would never pass through areas with higher than Roche > >Limit tidal forces. >I feel we all make a lot of assumptions about where life can and >cannot exist. The experience on this one little globe suggests that >it can and does occur in all sorts of unlikely places. In our own >solar system we have to consider as major contenders: >underground on Venus (only recently creamed by a comet) >next to the ice cap of Mars (an obvious place) >within Europa (a big blob of water) >on Titan (under its industrial smog) >while Jupiter, Saturn and Triton are likely to provide suprises too. >These are possible sources of a UFO culture within our own solar system. >And there may be myriads more contenders in the Oort cloud..... Unfortunately, places where life might survive after evolving are a much larger number than places where life might evolve. We know pretty well the types of environments which can generate life as we know it, and there really aren't many here. If life exists on Mars, it evolved when Mars was more earth-like and is unlikely to be even primitively multicellular. It life exists on Europa, it will probably be nothing like our own, except for having a water-oriented chemistry. But in none of these places is it likely that civilizations evolved, if only because we would be able to see the signs of such (please, no face on Mars suggestions). > Getting back to Saturn, here we have a possible habitat within the > ring system itself. So the Roche limit, far from precluding life, > might actually foster life which has developed technology. Nope. No life in the rings of Saturn. Don't be decieved by the magnetic shielding provided by the magetosphere; the rings are still a high radiation, very cold, no free water environment. Nothing we know of could live there without protection, and there is no known mechanism for life to evolve in such an environment. If you're interested in more on the Rings, I highly recommend the U of AZ book "Saturn". ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Orlando, Florida Hotel Name? From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 20:33:37 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 21:30:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Orlando, Florida Hotel Name? >From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> >Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 06:57:09 +0000 >Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 16:54:29 -0400 >Subject: Orlando, Florida Hotel Name? > Does anyone out there know of a hotel in Orlando, Florida by the name of > the 'DELPHIN HOTEL' ? I'm wondering if you aren't thinking of "The Dolphin" which is on or near Walt Disney World. There are two hotels near each other, one named The Dolphin and the other named The Swan. Last time I checked they were run by Westin Hotels. They are on the property of WDW, but are not technically Disney Hotels (not sure how all that works). Both of them are quite nice though. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 20:36:36 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 21:41:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli >Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 04:57:40 -0500 (CDT) >From: Michael Wayne Malone <wayne@HiWAAY.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli >>Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:07:12 -0400 >>From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Dear Mr. Shell, >You and I have disagreed on many things over the years. I think we >have agreed somewhat as well, but I have never doubted your expertise >in film and photography. I thank you for your efforts. Hi Michael, I'll do my best to make things as clear as I can. >I have a few questions, and I hope I'm not insulting you with the >simplisity of them. I am trying to clarify things in my own mind. >> All we know from Professor Malanga's tests, as I verified personally >> with him when I saw him in Italy earlier this year, is that this sample >> film from Santilli is on the older base. So it was made prior to >> 1957. >So what is being said is the material in the COPY was made by kodak >prior to 1957, not that the AA Film itself is pre-1957, right? Absolutely. We only know that the copy film was manufactured before 1957, but have no idea when the film was exposed or processed. >> Now, this film could keep for many years because, as you note, it is >> very slow (insensitive) copy film, and this sort of film stores well >> for extended periods even without refrigeration. >> However, after 1957, the chemical process for this older film was >> discontinued. So to expose and process this film at a later date would >> require not only finding pre-1957 copy film in usable condition, but >> also would require mixing up the older versions of the chemicals from >> scratch. This is not impossible, since the formulae and raw chemicals >> can be had, but makes the whole proposition more complicated. One could >> not simply expose the old print film and carry it in to an ordinary >> photo lab for processing. >> Ray Santilli obviously has access to someone who can handle processing >> of such old film, since the unrelated roll that Mike Hesemann bought from >> a lady in Roswell was given by him to Ray for processing, and after >> processing was given to me for forwarding to Kodak who dated the film >> to 1945. Kodak noted that it had apparently been processed properly. >I am unaware of this 1945 film. What is it supposed to show and where >can I get more information? When Mike Hesemann was in Roswell in 1995 (I believe) he bought a film cartridge from a motion picture camera from a lady who said her late husband had claimed that the film proved "it wasn't a god damned weather balloon". The lady had kept the film hidden for years because her husband had said it was dangerous for them to have. About fifteen feet of a 50 foot cartridge had been shot, but the film was never developed. Mike gave the film to Ray Santilli who said he could have it developed, and Ray later returned processed film and empty cartridge to Mike. The only problem is that the returned portion was only 35 feet, and the beginning 15 feet which had been exposed in the camera were never accounted for. We still do not know what happened to those 15 feet of film or what, if anything, was on them. At my request Eastman Kodak company examined the film and determined conclusively that it was manufactured in 1945. This is sort of a side mystery in the AA film case. >And you are saying, if I can paraphrase you correctly, that Ray Santilli >has the capability to process pre-1957 film correctly, right? Ray obviously knew someone who could process this 1945 film, and do it properly. Kodak said it was properly processed, and if there had been images they should have turned out fine. >> So, all that being said, testing of any sort performed on the copy >> film will be inconclusive, and will get us nowhere. Professor >> Malanga has already told us all that can be learned from this film. >And Professor Malanga can only testify to the stock of the copy of the >AA film, if I understand you correctly. No one has, as of yet, testified >to the stock of the original film, right? The only film peices given >out is copies of the original and those copies seem to be on pre-1957 >stock but may have been developed and expoused as recently as the early >1990s or as far back as the late 1940s. Is that a fair statement? >Michael Malone Yes, Michael, you have summarized it completely accurately. We have no idea when the copy film was exposed or processed, and have absolutely no information about the original film except the edge code which apparently printed through onto the copy film, and is the correct edge code for 1947. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: meccam@erols.com [Melanie Mecca] Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 20:55:29 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 21:43:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > From: wlmss@peg.apc.org [Lawrie Williams] > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 04:13:47 +1000 > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > I feel we all make a lot of assumptions about where life can and > cannot exist. The experience on this one little globe suggests that > it can and does occur in all sorts of unlikely places. In our own > solar system we have to consider as major contenders: > underground on Venus (only recently creamed by a comet) > next to the ice cap of Mars (an obvious place) > within Europa (a big blob of water) > on Titan (under its industrial smog) > while Jupiter, Saturn and Triton are likely to provide suprises too. > These are possible sources of a UFO culture within our own solar system. > And there may be myriads more contenders in the Oort cloud..... > Getting back to Saturn, here we have a possible habitat within the > ring system itself. So the Roche limit, far from precluding life, > might actually foster life which has developed technology. > Lawrie Williams________ and the moon, Lawrie, don't forget the moon - best possible place for visiting folks with technology savvy for domes! Nearest the "vacation planet of the Milky Way, " and a beautiful view - signs posted on the surface say "beware of the Dark Side." Melanie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 20:57:08 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 21:44:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention Regarding... >Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 17:55:35 -0400 >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Documentation of the transistor's >invention Steve wrote: >We can research the historical record forever, but it is unlikely >that one would find reference to information that came out of no >where, since that would have probably cause the Journal reviewers to >send it back. Steve, I think we might find that material which documents the successful development of the first transistor, will call on previous knowledge which can be verified and the continuity established. As noted before, the transistor wasn't a miraculous new concept. There had been a drive for some years to simply find an alternative to the vacuum tube, one which offered the same functionality, but with improvements in size, performance, manufacturing and running costs. There's an interesting article in Scientific American, (Nov 1965, V213, No. 5, pp 56-70), entitled "Microelectronics", co-authored by William Hittinger and Morgan Sparks. At the time, both were senior figures in semiconductor development at Bell Telephone Laboratories, Sparks having been with Bell Labs since 1943. The article makes a point that, "The first transistors had no striking advantage in size over the smallest tubes; they were - and remained for many years - more costly, and although they promised greater reliability and longer life, these attributes took years to demonstrate". The authors also note that by 1947 the ENIAC computer was in operation and its vast array of vacuum tubes (apparently 17,468 of them) far exceeded anything the transistor was able to offer at that time. Overall, they give a helpful insight into the reasons why in later years the "tyranny of numbers" focused attention on the transistor as an alternative. This was a realisation that the long-term, increasing complexity of vacuum tube switching was likely to pose insurmountable problems. The manufacture of systems with a perceived 10-20 year working life and a low maintenance requirement, apparently became of particular concern to telephone engineers. Interestingly, they claim that "As of 1955, no major item of military electronics had yet been transistorized; the commercial use of transistors was limited almost entirely to hearing aids". It was between 1955 and 1965 that "the electronics industry developed and reduced to produce a remarkable microelectronic technology". They reference in particular the Minuteman solid-fuel ICBM (circa 1961-63) as spurring military requirements. We can hopefully have a look at the original paper written by Shockley, Bardeen and Brattain; I would like to see that historical document. >It would be interesting to speak with some of those involved in the >actual research, but since that was over 50 years ago, we face the >same problem as Roswell researchers who are now dealing with a >dwindling number of witnesses to the truth (whatever it was). Although Shockley, Bardeen and Brattain are no longer with us, the truth is debateably straightforward. We do have the advantage of considerable historical material to look at and let's see what it may reveal. >>The seminal work on the field is suggested to be Shockley's >>"Electrons and Holes in Semiconductors" >>The original paper on the development of the transistor is >>apparently: >>J. Bardeen and W.H. Brattain, "Physical Principles Involved in >>Transistor Action", Phys. Rev. 75, 1208-1225 (1949). >>I should be able to obtain copies of both. >That's easily done... I know a certain Chief Librarian who might disagree. "You want WHAAATT!!!!" James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 22:09:55 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 22:50:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors > From: DRudiak@aol.com [David Rudiak] > Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 00:48:31 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors > The following was just posted by Bob Tarantino to Usenet UFO groups, and I > believe the man has hit on something relevant to the alien transistor debate. > -------------------------------------- > Newsgroups: alt.alien.research,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranet.ufo,sci.skeptic > Subject: Re: Phoenix UFO - Nothing on Radar? MJ-12 hoax > From: bob <taranr@erols.com> > Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 10:36:39 -0400 > Consider the following excerpt from a declassified document which was > originally submitted by a firm in England proposing research into > anti-gravity or "electrogravitics" in 1955... > David, It really irks me when someone, not yourself, posts selected information without citing the source and its provenance so that others can access and verify the information. Perhaps the complete document was made available by him, perhaps not. Below is the information I have on the provenance of the electrogravitics document and the full text of the document is an attachment for those who would like to consider it fully themselves. Unfortunately the document is too long to fit in an email message. Gary Alevy 1. The 1956 paper "Electrogravitics Systems" (prepared by the Special Weapons Study Unit of Aviation Studies Ltd., a UK-based aviation industry intelligence firm). It was declassified from a confidential status some time prior to 1985 and entered the public domain as a result of an interlibrary loan request placed through the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base Technical Library by Paul A. LaViolette, Ph.D. 1. The 1956 paper "Electrogravitics Systems" (prepared by the Special Weapons Study Unit of Aviation Studies Ltd., a UK-based aviation industry intelligence firm). It was declassified from a confidential status some time prior to 1985 and entered the public domain as a result of an interlibrary loan request placed through the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base Technical Library by Paul A. LaViolette, Ph.D. 13-1-00034-5879 ELECTROGRAVITIC SYSTEMS An examination of elecrostatic motion, dynamic counterbary and barycentric control. TL 565 A9 Bar Code: 3 1401 00034 5879 Due dates omitted. Shield with Logo: AF WRIGHT AERONAUTICAL LABORATORIES TECHNICAL LIBRARY Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio 45433 Inner Cover: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS An examination of electrostatic motion, dynamic counterbary and barycentric control. Prepared by Gravity Research Group Aviation Studies (International) Limited, London 29-31 Cheval Place. Knightsbridge LONDON S.W. 7 England Report GRG 013/56 February 1956 TL 565 A9 CONTENTS Page Introductory Notes...............1 Discussion.......................3 Conclusions.....................18 APPENDIX I - Aviation Report extracts....21 I - Electrostatic Patents.......33 * * * PROPERTY OF USAF -1- ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS An examination of electrostatic motion, dynamic counterbary and barycentric control It has been accepted as axiomatic that the way to offset the effects of gravity is to use a lifting surface and considerable molecular energy to produce a continously applied force that, for a limited period of time, can remain greater than the effects of gravitational attraction. The original invention of the glider, and evolution of the briefly self-sustaining glider, at the turn of the century led to progressive advances in power and knowledge. This has been directed to refining the classic Wright Brothers' approach. Aircraft design is still fundamentally as the Wrights adumbrated it, with wings, body, tails, moving or flapping controls, landing gear and so forth. The Wright biplane was a powered glider, and all subsequent aircraft, including the supersonic jets of the nineteen-fifties are also powered gliders. Only one fundamentally different flying principle has so far been adopted with varying degrees of success. It is the rotating wing aircraft that has led to the jet lifters and vertical pushers, coleopters, ducted fans and lift induction turbine propulsion systems. But during these decades there was always the possibility of making efforts to discover the nature of gravity from cosmic or quantum theory, investigation and observation, with a view to discerning the physical properties of aviation's enemy. -2- It has seemed to Aviation Studies that for some time insufficient attention has been directed to this kind of research. If it were successful such developments would change the concept of sustentation, and confer upon a vehicle qualities that woul now be regarded as the ultimate in aviation. This report summarizes in simple form the work that has been done and is being done in the new field of electrogravitics. It also outlines the various possible lines of research into the nature and constituent matter of gravity, and how it has changed from Newton to Einstein to the modern Hlavaty concept of gravity as an electromagnetic force that may be controlled like a light wave. The report also contains an outline of opinions on the feasibility of different electrogravitics systems and there is reference to some of the barycentric control and electrostatic rigs in operation. Also included is a list of references to electrogravitics in successive Aviation Reports since a drive was started by Aviation Studies (International) Limited to suggest to aviation business eighteen months ago that the rewards of success are too far-reaching to be overlooked, especially in view of the hopeful judgement of the most authoritative voice in micro- physics. Also listed are some relevant patents on electrostatics and electrostatic generators in the United States, United Kingdom and France. Gravity Research Group --------------------- 25 February 1956 -3- DISCUSSION Electrogravitics might be described as a synthesis of electrostatic energy used for propulsion - either vertical propulsion or horizontal or both - and gravitics, or dynamic counterbary, in which energy is also used to set up a local gravitational force independent of the earth's. Electrostatic energy for propulsion has been predicted as a possible means of propulsion in space when the thrust from a neutron motor or ion motor would be sufficient in a dragless environment to produce astronomical velocities. But the ion motor is not strictly a part of the science of electrogravitics, since barycentric control in an electrogravitics systems is envisaged for a vehicle operating within the earth's environment and it is not seen initially for space application. Probably large scale space opera- tions would have to await the full development of electrogravitics to enable large pieces of equipment to be moved out of the region of the earth's strongest gravity effects. So, though electrostatic motors were thought of in 1925, electrogravitics had its birth after the War, when Townsend Brown sought to improve on the various proposals that then existed for electrostatic motors sufficiently to produce some visible manifestation of sustained motion. Whereas earlier electrostatic tests were essentially pure research Brown's rigs were aimed from the outset at producing a flying article. As a private venture he produced evidence of motion using condensers in a couple of saucers suspended by arms rotating round a central tower with input running down the arms. The massive-k situation was summarized subsequently in a report, Project Winterhaven, in 1952. Using the data some conclusions were arrived at that might be expected from ten or more years of -4- intensive development - similar to that, for instance, applied to the turbine engine. Using a number of assumptions as to the nature of gravity, the report postulated a saucer as the basis of a possible interceptor with Mach 3 capability. Creation of a local gravitational system would confer upon the fighter the sharp-edged changes of direction typical of motion in space. The essence of electrogravitics thrust is the use of a very strong positive charge on one side of the vehicle and a negative on the other. The core of the motor is a condenser and the ability of the condenser to hold its charge (the k-number) is the yardstick of performance. With air as 1, current dielectrical materials can yield 6 and use of barium aluminate can raise this considerably, barium titanium oxide (a baked ceramic) can offer 6,000 and there is promise of 30,000, which would be sufficient for supersonic speed. The original Brown rig produced 30 fps on a voltage of around 50,000 and a small amount of current in the milliamp range. There was no detailed explanation of gravity in Project Winterhaven, but it was assumed that particle dualism in the subatomic structure of gravity would coincide in its effect with the issuing stream of electrons from the electrostatic energy source to produce counterbary. The Brown work probably remains a realistic approach to the practical realization of electrostatic propulsion and sustentation. What- ever may be discovered by the Gravity Research Foundation of New Boston a complete understanding and synthetic reproduction of gravity is not essential for limited success. The electro- gravitics saucer can perform the function of a classic lifting surface - it produces a pushing effect on the under surface and a suction effect on the upper, but, unlike an airfoil, it does not require a flow of air to produce the effect. -5- First attempts at electrogravitics are unlikely to produce counterbary, but may lead to development of an electrostatic VTOL vehicle. Even in its development form this might be an advance on the molecular heat engine in its capabilities. But hopes in the new science depend on an understanding of the source and matter of gravity. It is fortuitous that lift can be produced in the traditional fashion and if an understanding of gravity remains beyond full practical control, electrostatic lift might be an adjunct of some significance to modern thrust producers. Research into electrostatics could prove beneficial to turbine development, and heat engines in general, in view of the usable electron potential round the periphery of any flame. Materials for electrogravitics and especially the development of commercial quantities of high-k material is another dividend to be obtained from electrostatic research even if it produces no counterbary. This is a line of development that Aviation Studies' Gravity Research Group is following. One of the interesting aspects of electrogravitics is that a breakthrough in almost any part of the broad front of general research on the intranuclear processes may be translated into a meaningful advance towards the feasibility of electrogravitics systems. This demands constant monitoring in the most likely areas of the physics of high energy sub-nuclear particles. It is difficult to be overoptimistic about the prospects of gaining so complete a grasp of gravity while the world's physicists are still engaged in a study of fundamental particles - that is to say those that cannot be broken down any more. Fundamental particles are still being discovered - the most recent was the Segre- Chamberlain-Wiegand attachment ot the bevatron, which was used to isolate the missing anti-proton, which must - or should be presumed to - exist according to Dirac's theory of the electron. -6- Much of the accepted mathematics of particles would be wrong if the anti-proton was proved to be non-existent. Earlier Eddington has listed the fundamental particles as:- e The charge of an electron. m the mass of an electron. M the mass of a proton. h Planck's contant c The velocity of light. G The constant of gravitation, and L The cosmological constant It is generally held that no one of these can be inferred from the others. But electrons may well disappear from among the fundamental particles, though, as Russell says, it is likely that e and m will survive. The constants are much more established than the interpretation of them and are among the most solid of achievements in modern physics. * * * Gravity may be defined as a small scale departure from Euclidean space in the general theory of relativity. The gravitational constant is one of four dimensionless constants: first, the mass relation of the nucleon and electron. Second is e^2/hc, third, the Compton wavelength of the proton, and fourth is the gravitational constant, which is the ratio of the electrostatic -7- to the gravitational attraction between the electron and the proton. One of the stumbling blocks in electrogravitics is the absence of any satisfacotry theory linking these four dimension- less quantities. Of the four, moreover, gravity is decidedly the most complex, since any explanation would have to satisfy both cosmic and quantum relations more acceptably and intelligibly even than in the unified field theory. A gravitational constant of around 10^-30 has emerged from quantum research and this has been used as a tool for finding theories that could link the two relations. This work is now in full progress, and developments have to be watched for the aviation angle. Hitherto Dirac, Eddington, Jordan and others have produced differences in theory that are too wide to be accepted as consistent. It means therefore that (i) without a cosmological basis, and (ii) with an imprecise quantum basis and (iii) a vague hypothesis on the interaction, much remains still to be discovered. Indeed some say that a single interacting theory to link up the dimensionless constants is one of three major unresolved basic problems of physics. The other two main problems are the extension of quantum theory and a more detailed knowledge of the fundamental particles. All this is some distance from Newton, who saw gravity as a force acting on a body from a distance, leading to the tendency of bodies to accelerate towards each other. He allied this assumption with Euclidean geometry, and time was assumed as uniform and acted independently of space. Bodies and particles in space normally moved uniformly in straight lines according to Newton, and to account for the way they sometimes do not do so, he used the idea of a force of gravity acting at a distance, in which particles of matter cause in others an acceleration proportional to their mass, and inversely proportional to the -8- square of the distance between them. But Einstein showed how the principle of least action, or the so-called cosmic laziness means that particles, on the contrary, follow the easiest path along geodesic lines and as a result they get readily absorbed into space-time. So was born non-linear physics. The classic example of non-linear physics is the experiment in bombarding a screen with two slits. When both slits are open particles going through are not the sum of the two individually but follows a non-linear equation. This leads on to wave-particle dualism and that in turn to the Heisenberg uncertainty principle in which an increase in accuracy in measurement of one physical quantity means decreasing accuracy in measuring the other. If time is measured accurately energy calculations will be in error; the more accurate the position of a particle is established the less certain the velocity will be; and so on. This basic principle of the acausality of microphysics affects the study of gravity in the special and general theories of relativity. Lack of pictoral image in the quantum physics of this interrelationship is a difficulty at the outset for those whose minds remain obstinately Euclidean. In the special theory of relativity, space-time is seen only as an undefined interval which can be defined in any way that is convenient and the Newtonian idea of persistent particles in motion to explain gravity cannot be accepted. It must be seen rather as a synthesis of forces in a four dimensional continuum, three to establish the position and one the time. The general theory of relativity that followed a decade later was a geometrical explanation of gravitation in which bodies take the geodesic path through space-time. In turn this means that instead of the idea of a force acting at a distance it is assumed that space, time, radiation and particles are linked and variations in them from gravity are due rather to the nature of space. -9- Thus gravity of a body such as the earth, instead of pulling object towards it as Newton postulated, is adjusting the characteristics of space and, it may be inferred, the quantum mechanics of space in the vicinity of the gravitational force. Electrogravitics aims at correcting this adjustment to put matter, so to speak, 'at rest'. * * * One of the difficulties in 1954 and 1955 was to get aviation to take electrogravitics seriously. The name alone was enough to put people off. However, in the trade much progress has been made and now most major companies in the United States are interested in counterbary. Groups are being organised to study electrostatic and electromagnetic phenomena. Most of industry's leaders have made some reference to it. Douglas has now stated that it has counterbary on its work agenda but does not expect results yet awhile. Hiller has referred to new forms of flying platform, Glenn Martin say gravity control could be achieved in six years, but they add that it would entail a Manhattan District type of effort to bring it about. Sikorsky, one of the pioneers, more or less agrees with the Douglas verdict and says that gravity is tangible and formidable, but there must be a physical carrier for this immense trans-spatial force. This implies that where a physical manifestation exists, a physical device and be developed for creating a similar force moving in the opposite direction to cancel it. Clarke Electronics state thay have a rig, and add that in their view the source of gravity's force will be understood sooner than some people think. General Electric is working on the use of electronic rigs designed to make adjustments to gravity - this line of attack has the advantage of using rigs already in existence for other defence work. Bell also has an experimental rig intended, as -10- the company puts it, to cancel out gravity, and Lawrence Bell has said he is convinced that practical hardware will emerge from current programs. Grover Leoning is certain that what he referred to as an electro-magnetic contra-gravity mechanism will be developed for practical use. Convair is extensively committed to the work with several rigs. Lear Inc., autopilot and electronic engineers have a division of the company working on gravity research and so also has the Sperry division of Sperry-Rand. This list embraces most of the U.S. aircraft industry. The remainder, Curtiss-Wright, Lockheed, Boeing and North American have not yet declared themselves, but all these four are known to be in various stages of study with and without rigs. In addition, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology is working on gravity, the Gravity Research Foundation of New Boston, the Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton, the CalTech Radiation Laboratory, Princeton University and the University of North Carolina are all active in gravity. Glenn L. Martin is setting up a Research Institute for Advanced Study which has a small staff working on gravity research with the unified field theory and this group is committed to extensive programs of applied research. Many others are also known to be studying gravity, some are known also to be planning a general expansion in this field, such as the proposed Institute for Pure Physics at the University of North Carolina. A certain amount of work is also going on in Europe. One of the French nationalized constructors and one company outside the nationalized elements have been making preliminary studies, and a little company money has in one case actually been committed. Some work is also going on in Britain where rigs are now in existence. Most of it is private tenure work, such -11- as that being done by Ed Hull, a colleague of Townsend Brown who, as much as anybody, introduced Europe to electrogravitics. Aviation Studies' Gravity Research Group is doing some work, mainly on k studies, and is sponsoring dielectric investigations. One Swedish company and two Canadian companies have been making studies, and quite recently the Germans have woken up to the possibilities. Several of the companies have started digging out some of the early German papers on wave physics. They are almost certain to plan a gravitics program. Curiously enough the Germans during the war paid no attention to electrogravitics. This is one line of advance that they did not pioneer in any way and is still basically a U.S. creation. Townsend Brown in electrogravitics is the equivalent of Frank Whittle in gas turbines. This German overlooking of electrostatics is even more surprising when it is remembered how astonishingly advanced and prescient the Germans were in nuclear research. (The modern theory of making thermonuclear weapons without plutonium fission initiators returns to the original German idea that was dismissed, even ridiculed. The Germans never went very far with fission, indeed they doubted that this chain would ever be made to work.) The German air industry, still in the embryo stage, has included electrogravitics among the subjects it intends to examine when establishing the policy that the individual companies will adopt after the present early stage of foreign licence has enabled industry to get abreast of the other countries in aircraft development. * * * It is impossible to read through this summary of the widening efforts being made to understand the nature of matter of gravity without sharing the hope that many groups now have, of major theoretical breakthroughs occurring before very long. -12- Experience in nucleonics has shown that when attempts to win knowledge on this scale are made, advances are soon seen. There are a number of elements in industry, and some managements, who see gravity as a problem for later genera- tions. Many see nothing in it all and they might be right. But as said earlier, if Dr. Vaclav Hlavaty thinks gravity is potentially controllable that surely should be justification enough, and indeed inspiration, for physicists to apply their minds and for management to take a risk. Hlavaty is the only man who thinks he can see a way of doing the mathematics to demonstrate Einstein's unified field theory - something that Einstein himself said was beyond him. Relativity and the unified field theory go to the root of electrogravitics and the shifts in thinking, the hopes and fears, and a measure of progress is to be obtained only in the last resort from men of this stature. Major theoretical breakthroughs to discover the sources of gravity will be made by the most advanced intellects using the most advanced research tools. Aviation's role is therefore to impress upon physicists of this calibre with the urgency of the matter and to aid them with statistical and peripheral investigations that will help to clarify the background to the central mathematics and physical puzzles. Aviation could also assist by recruiting some of these men as advisers. Convair has taken the initiative with its recently established panel of advisers on nuclear projects, which include Dr. Edward Teller of the University of California. At the same time much can be done in development of laboratory rigs, condenser research and dielectric development, which do not require anything like the same cerebral capacity to get results and make a practical contribution. As gravity is likely to be linked with the new particles, only the highest powered particle accelerators are likely to be of use -13- in further fundamental knowledge. The country with the biggest tools of this kind is in the best position to examine the characteristics of the particles and from these countries the greatest advances seem most likely. Though the United States has the biggest of the bevatrons - the Berkeley bevatron is 6.2 bev - the Russians have a 10 bev accelerator in construction which, when it is completed, will be the world's largest. At Brookhaven a 25 bev instrument is in development which, in turn, will be the biggest. Other countries without comparable facilities are of course at a great disadvantage from the outset in the contest to discover the explanations of gravity. Electrogravitics, moreover, unfortunately competes with nuclear studies for its facilities. The clearest thinking brains are bound to be attracted to locations where the most extensive laboratory equipment exists. So, one way and another, results are most likely to come from the major countries with the biggest undertakings. Thus the nuclear facilities have a direct bearing on the scope for electrogravitics work. The OEEC report in January made the following points:- The U.S. has six to eight entirely different types of reactor in operation and many more under construction. Europe has now two different types in service. The U.S. has about 30 research reactors plus four in Britain, two in France. The U.S. has two nuclear-powered marine engines. Europe has none, but the U.K. is building one. Isotope separation plants for the enrichment of uranium in the U.S. are roughly 11 times larger than the European plant in Britain. Europe's only heavy water plant (in Norway) produces somewhat less than one-twentieth of American output. In 1955 the number of technicians employed in nuclear energy work in the U.S. was about 15,000; there are about 5,000 in Britain, 1,800 in France, and about 1,000 in the rest of Europe. But the working party says that pessimistic conclusions should not be drawn from these comparisons. European nuclear energy effort is evenly divided at the moment, but some countries have notable achievements to their credit and important developments in prospect. The main reason for optimism is that, taken as a whole, "Europe's present nuclear effort falls very far short of its industrial potential". Though gravity research, such as there has been of it, has been unclassified, new principles and information gained from the nuclear research facilities that have a vehicle application is expected to be withheld. The heart of the problem to understanding gravity is likely to prove to be the way in which the very high energy sub-nuclear particles convert something, whatever it is, continuously and automatically into the tremendous nuclear and electromagnetic forces. Once this key is understood, attention can later be directed to finding laboratory means of duplicating the process and reversing its force lines in some local environment and returning the energy to itself to produce counterbary. Looking beyond it seems possible that gravitation will be shown to be a part of the universal electro-magnetic processes and controlled -15- in the same way as a light wave or radio wave. This is a synthesis of the Einstein and Hlavaty concepts. Hence it follows that though in its initial form the mechanical processes for countering gravity may initially be massive to deal with the massive forces involved, eventually this could be expected to form some central power generation unit. Barycentric control in some required quantity could be passed over a distance by a form of radio wave. The prime energy source to energise the waves would of course be nuclear in its origins. It is difficult to say which lines of detailed development being processed in the immediate future is more likely to yield significant results. Perhaps the three most promising are: first, the new attempt by the team of men led by Chamberlain working with the Berkeley bevatron to find the anti-neutron, and to identify more of the characteristics of the anti-proton* and each of the string of high energy particles that have been discovered during recent operations at 6.2 bev. A second line of approach is the United States National Bureau of Standards program to pin down with greater accuracy the acceleration values of gravity. The presently accepted figure ___________________________________________________________ *The reaction is as follows: protons are accelerated to 6.2 bev, and directed at a target of copper. When the proton projectile hits a neutron in one of the copper atoms the following emerge: the two original particles (the projectile and the struck neutron) and a new pair of particles, a proton and anti-proton. The anti-proton continues briefly until it hits another proton, then both disappear and decay into mesons. ___________________________________________________________ -16- of 32.174 feet per second per second is known to be not comprehensive, though it has been sufficiently accurte for the limited needs of industry hitherto. The NBS program aims at re-determining the strength of gravity to within one part of a million. The present method thas been to hold a ball 16 feet up and chart the elapsed time of descent with electronic measuring equipment. The new program is based on the old, but with this exceptional degree of accuracy it is naturally immensely more difficult and is expected to take 3 years. A third promising line is the new technique of measuring high energy particles in motion that was started by the University of California last year. This involves passing cosmic rays through a chamber containing a mixture of gas, alcohol and water vapour. This creates charged atoms, or positive ions, by knocking electrons off the gas molecules. A sudden expansion of the chamber results in a condensation of water droplets along the track which can be plotted on a photographic plate. This method makes it easier to assess the energy of particles and to distinguish one from the other. It also helps to establish the characteristics of the different types of particles. The relationship between these high energy particles, and their origin, and characteristics, have a bearing on electrogravitics in general. So much of what has to be discovered as a necessary preliminary to gravity is of no practical use by itself. There is no conceivable use, for instance, for the anti-proton, yet its discovery even at a cost of $9-million is essential to check the mathematics of the fundamental components of matter. Similarly it is necessary to check that all the nuclear ghosts that have been postulated theoretically do in fact exist. It is not, moreover, sufficient, as in the past, only to observe the particles by -17- radiation counters. In each instance a mechanical maze has to be devised and attached to a particle accelerator to trap only the particle concerned. Each discovery becomes a wedge for a deeper probe of the nucleus. Many of the particles of very high energy have only a fleeting existence and collisions that give rise to them from bevatron bombardment is a necessary pre- requisite to an understanding of gravity. There are no shortcuts to this process. Most of the major programs for extending human knowledge on gravity are being conducted with instruments already in use for nuclear research and to this extent the cost of work exclusively on gravitational examinations is still not of major proportions. This has made it difficult for aviation to gauge the extent of the work in progress on gravity research. * * * -18- CONCLUSIONS 1. No attempts to control the magnitude or direction of the earth's gravitational force have yet been successful. But if the explanation of gravity is to be found in the as yet undeter- mined characteristics of the very high energy particles it is becoming increasingly possible with the bevatron to work with the constituent matter of gravity. It is therfore reasonable to expect that the new bevatron may, before long, be used to demonstrate limited gravitational control. 2. An understanding and identification of these particles is on the frontiers of human knowledge, and a full assessment of them is one of the major unresolved puzzles of the nucleus. An associated problem is to discover a theory to account for the cosmic and quantum relations of gravity, and a theory to link the gravitational constant with the other three dimensionless constants. 3. Though the obstacles to an adequate grasp of microphysics still seem formidable, the transportation rewards that could follow from electrogravitics are as high as can be envisaged. In a weightless environment, movement with sharp-edged changes of direction could offer unique manoeuvrability. 4. Determination of the enviroonment of the anti-proton, discovery -19- of the anti-neutron and closer examination of the other high energy particles are preliminaries to the hypothesis that gravity is one aspect of electromagnetism that may eventually be controlled like a wave. When the structure of the nucleus becomes clearer, the influence of the gravitational force upon the nucleus and the nature of its behaviour in space will be more readily understood. This is a great advance on the Newtonian concept of gravity acting at a distance. 5. Aviation's role appears to be to establish facilities to handle many of the peripheral and statistical investigations to help fill in the background on electrostatics. 6. A distinction has to be made between electrostatic energy for propulsion and counterbary. Counterbary is the manipulation of gravitational force lines; barycentric control is the adjustment to such manipulative capability to produce a stable type of motion suitable for transportation. 7. Electrostatic energy sufficient to produce low speeds (a few thousand dynes) has already been demonstrated. Generation of a region of positive electrostatic energy on one side of a plate and negative on the other sets up the same lift or propulsion effect as the pressure and suction below and above a wing, except that in the case of electrostatic application no airflow is necessary. 8. Electrostatic energy sufficient to produce a Mach 3 fighter is possible with megavolt energies and a k of over 10,000. -20- 9. k figures of 6,000 have been obtained from some ceramic materials and there are prospects of 30,000. 10. Apart from electrogravitics there are other rewards from investment in electrostatic equipment. Automation, autonetics and even turbine development use similar laboratory facilities. 11. Progress in electrogravitics probably awaits a new genius in physics who can find a single equation to tie up all the conflicting observations and theory on the structure and arrangement of forces and the part the high energy particles play in the nucleus. This can occur any time, and the chances are improved now that bev energies are being obtained in controlled laboratory conditions. * * * APPENDIX I EXTRACTS FROM AVIATION REPORT -21- ANTI-GRAVITATION RESEARCH The basic research and technology behind electro-anti- gravitation is so much in its infancy that this is perhaps one field of development where not only the methods but the ideas are secret. Nothing therefore can be discussed freely at the moment. Very few papers on the subject have been prepared so far, and the only schemes that have seen the light of day are for pure research into rigs designed to make objects float around freely in a box. There are various radio applications, and aviation medecine departments have been looking for something that will enable them to study the physiological effects on the digestion and organs of an environment without gravity. There are however long term aims of a more revolutionary nature that envisage equipment that can defeat gravity. Aviation Report 20 August 1954 MANAGERIAL POLICY FOR ANTI-GRAVITICS The prospect of engineers devising gravity-defeating equipment - or perhaps it should be described as the creation of pockets of weightless environments - does suggest that as a long term policy aircraft constructors will be required to place even more emphasis on electro-mechanical industrial plant, than is now required for the transition from manned to unmanned weapons. Anti-gravitics work is therefore likely to go to companies with the biggest electrical laboratories and facilities. It is also apparent that anti-gravitics, like other advanced sciences, will be initially sponsored for its weapon capabilities. There are perhaps two broad ways of using the science, one is to postulate the design of advanced type projectiles on their best inherent capabilities, and the more critical parameters (that now constitutes the design limitation) can be eliminated by anti-gravitics. The other, which is a longer term plan, is to create an entirely new environment with devices operating entirely under an anti-gravitic envelope. Aviation Report 24 August 1954 -22- THE GREATER THE EASIER Propulsion and atomic energy trends are similar in one respect: the more incredible the long term capabilities are, the easier it is to attain them. It is strange that the greatest of nature's secrets can be harnessed with decreasing industrial effort, but greatly increasing mental effort. The Americans went through the industrial torture to produce tritium for the first thermonuclear experiment, but later both they and the Russians were able to achieve much greater results with the help of lithium 6 hydride. The same thing is happening in aviation propulsion; the nuclear fuels are promising to be tremendously powerful in their effect, but excessively complicated in their application, unless there can be some means of direct conversion as in the strontium 90 cell. But lying behind and beyond the nuclear fuels is the linking of electricity to gravity, which is an incomparably more powerful way of harnessing energy than the only method known to human intellect at present - electricity and magnetism. Perhaps the magic of barium aluminum oxide will perform the miracle in propulsion that lithium 6 hydride has done in the fusion weapon. Certainly it is a well-known material in dielectrics, but when one talks of massive-k, one means of course five figures. At this early stage it is difficult to relate k to Mach numbers with any certainty, but realizable k can, with some kinds of arithmetic, produce astounding velocities. They are achievable, moreover, with decreasing complexity, indeed the ultimate becomes the easiest in term of engineering, but the most hideous in terms of theory. Einstein's general theory of relativity is, naturally, and important factor, but some of the postulates appear to depend on the unified field theory, which cannot yet be physically checked because noone knows how to do it. Einstein hopes to find a way of doing this before he dies. Aviation Report 31 August 1954 GRAVITICS FORMULATIONS All indications are that there has still been little cognizance of the potentialities of electrostatic propulsion and it will be a major -23- undertaking to re-arrange aircraft plants to conduct large- scale research and development into novel forms of dielectric and to improve condenser efficiencies and to develop the novel type of materials used for fabrication of the primary structure. Some extremely ambitious theoretical programs have been submitted and work towards realization of a manned vehicle has begun. One the evidence, there are far more definite indications that the incredible claims are realizable than there was, for instance, in supposing that uranium fission would result in a bomb. At least it is known, proof positive, that motion, using surprisingly low k, is possible. The fantastic control that again is feasible, has not yet been demonstrated, but there is no reason to suppose the arithmetic is faulty, especially as it has already led to a quite brisk example of actual propulsion. That first movement was indeed an historic occasion, reminiscent of the momentous day at Chicago when the first pile went critical, and the phenomenon was scarcely less weird. It is difficult to imagine just where a well-organized examination into long term gravitics would end. Though a circular planform is electrostatically convenient, it does not necessarily follow that the requirements of control by differential changes would be the same. Perhaps the strangest part of this whole chapter is how the public managed to foresee the concept, though not of course the theoretical principles that gave rise to it, before physical tests confirmed that the mathematics was right. It is interesting also that there is no point of contact between the conventional science of aviation and the New: it is a radical offshoot with no common principles. Aerodynamics, structures, heat engines, flapping controls, and all the rest of aviation is part of what might be called the Wright Brothers era, even the Mach 2.5 thermal barrier piercers are still Wright Brothers concepts, in the sense that they fly and they stall, and they run out of fuel after a short while, and they defy the earth's pull for a short while. Thus this century will be divided into two parts - almost to the day. The first half belonged to the Wright Brothers who foresaw nearly all the basic issues in which gravity was the bitter foe. In part of the second half, gravity will be the great provider. Electrical energy, rather irrelevant for propulsion in -24- the first half becomes a kind of catalyst to motion in the second half of the century. Aviation Report 7 September 1954 ELECTRO-GRAVITICS PARADOX Realization of electro-static propulsion seems to depend on two theoretical twists and two practical ones. The two theoretical puzzles are: first, how to make a condenser the centre of a propulsion system, and the second is how to link the condenser system with the gravitational field. There is a third problem, but it is some way off yet, which is how to manipulate kva for control in all three axes as well as for propulsion and lift. The two practical tricks are first how, with say a Mach 3 weapon in mind, to handle a 50,000 kva within the envelope of a thin pancake of 35 feet in diameter and second how to generate such power from within so small a space. The electrical power in a small aircraft is more than a fair sized community the analogy being that a single rocketjet can provide as much power as can be obtained from the Hoover Dam. It will naturally take as long to develop electro-static propulsion as it has taken to coax the enormous power outputs from heat engines. True there might be flame in the electro-gravitic propulsion system, but it would not be a heat engine - the temperature of the flame would be incidental to the function of the chemical burning process. The curious thing is that though electro-static propulsion is the antithesis of magnetism,* Einstein's unified field theory is an attempt to link gravitation with electro-magnetism. This all- embracing theory goes on logically from the general theory of relativity, that gives an ingenious geometrical interpretation of the concept of force which is mathematically consistent with gravitation but fails in the case of electro-magnetism, while the special theory of relativity is concerned with the relationship between mass and energy. The general theory of relativity fails to account for the electro-magnetism because the forces are proportional to the charge and not to the mass. The unified field theory is one of a number of attempts that have been made to bridge this gap, but it is baffling to imagine how it could ever be observed. Einstein himself thinks it is virtually impossible. However, Hlavaty claims to have solved the equations by assuming that gravitation is a manifestation of electro-magnetism. This being so it is all the more incredible that electro-static __________________________________________________________________ *Though in a sense this is true, it is better expressed in the body of this report than it was here in 1954. -25- propulsion (with kva for convenience fed into the system and not self-generated) has actually been demonstrated. It may be that to apply all this very abstruse physics to aviation it will be necesary to accept that the theory is more important than this or that interpretation of it. This is how the physical constants, which are now regarded as among the most solid of achievements in modern physics, have become workable, and accepted. Certainly all normal instincts would support the Einstein series of postulations, and if this is so it is a matter of conjecture where it will lead in the long term future of the electro-gravitic science. Aviation Report 10 September 1954 ELECTRO-GRAVITIC PROPULSION SITUATION Under the terms of Project Winterhaven the proposals to develop electro-gravitics to the point of realizing a Mach 3 combat type of disc were not far short of the extensive effort that was planned for the Manhattan District.* Indeed the drive to develop the prime mover is in some respects rather similar to the experiments that led to the release of nuclear energy in the sense that both involve fantastic mathematical capacity and both are sciences so new that other allied sciences cannot be of very much guide. In the past two years since the principle of motion by means of massive-k was first demonstrated on a test rig, progress has been slow. But the indications are now thet the Pentagon is ready to sponsor a range of devices to help further the knowledge. In effect the new family of TVs would be on the same tremendous scope that was envisaged by the X-1,2,3,4 and 5 and the D.558s that were all created for the purpose of destroying the sound barrier - which they effectively did, but it is a process that is taking ten solid years of hard work to complete. (Now after 7 years the X-2 has yet to start its tests and the X-3 is still in performance testing stage). Tentative targets ...<illegible> anticipate that the first disc should be complete before 1960 and it would take the whole of the sixties to develop it properly, even though some combat things might be available ten years from now. One thing seems certain at this stage, that the companies likely to dominate the science will be those with the biggest ________________________________________________________________ *The proposals, it should be added, were not accepted. -26- computors to work out the ramifications of the basic theory. Douglas is easily the world's leader in computor capacity, followed by Lockheed and Convair. The frame incidentally is indivisible from the engine. If there is to ba any division of responsibility it would be that the engine industry might become responsible for providing the electrostatic energy (by, it is thought, a kind of flame) and the frame maker for the condenser assembly which is the core of the main structure. Aviation Report 12 October 1954 GRAVITICS STUDY WIDENING The French are now understood to be pondering the most effective way of entering the field of electro-gravitic propulsion systems. But not the least of the difficulties is to know just where to begin. There are practically no patents so far that throw very much light on the mathematics of the relation between electricity and gravity. There is, of course, a large number of patents on the general subject of motion and force, and some of these may prove to have some application. There is, however, a series of working postulations embodied in the original Project Winterhaven, but no real attempt has been made in the working papers to go into the detailed engineering. All that had actually been achieved up to just under a year ago was a series of fairly accurate extrapolations from the sketchy data that has so far been actually observed. The extrapolation of 50 mph to 1,800 mph, however, (which is what the present hopes and aspirations amount to) is bound to be a rather vague exercise. This explains American private views that nothing can be reasonably expected from the science for yet awhile. Meanwhile, the NACA is active, and nearly all of the Universities are doing wokr that borders close to what is involved here, and something fruitful is likely to turn up before very long. Aviation Report 19 October 1954 GRAVITIC STEPS Specification writers seem to be still rather stumped to know what to ask for in the very hazy science of electro-gravitic -27- propelled vehicles. They are at present faced with having to plan the first family of things - first of these is the most realistic type of operational test rig, and the second the first type of test vehicle. In turn this would lead to sponsoring of a combat disc. The preliminary test rigs which gave only feeble propulsion have been somewhat improved, but of course the speeds reached so far are only those more associated with what is attained on the road rather than in the air. But propulsion is now known to be possible, as it is a matter of feeding enough KVA into condensers with better k figures. 50,000 is a magic figure for the combat saucer, it the is the amount of KVA and this amount of k that can be translated into Mach 3 speeds. Meanwhile Glenn Martin now feels ready to say in public that they are examining the unified field theory to see what can be done. It would probably be truer to say that Martin and other companies are now looking for men who can make some kind of sense out of Einstein's equations. There's nobody in the air industry at present with the faintest idea of what it is all about. Also, just as necessary, companies have somehow to find administrators who know enough of the mathematics to be able to guess what kind of industrial investment is likely to be necessary for the company to secure the most rewarding prime contracts in the new science. This again is not so easy since much of the mathematics just cannot be translated into words. You either understand the figures, or you cannot ever have it explained to you. This is rather new because even things like indeterminacy in quantum mechanics can be more or less put into words. Perhaps the main thing for management to bear in mind in recruiting men is that essentially electro-gravitics is a branch of wave technology and much of it starts with Planck's dimensions of action, energy and time, and some if this is among the most firm and least controversial sections of modern atomic physics. Aviation Report 19 November 1954 ELECTRO-GRAVITICS PUZZLE Back in 1948 and 49, the public in the U.S. had a surprisingly clear idea of what a flying saucer should, or could, do. There has never at any time been any realistic explanation of -28- what propulsion agency could make it do those things, but its ability to move within its own gravitation field was presupposed from its manoeuvrability. Yet all this was at least two years before electro-static energy was shown to produce propulsion. It is curious that the public were so ahead of the empiricists on this occasion, and there are two possible explanations. One is that optical illusions or atmospheric phenomena offered a preconceived idea of how the ultimate aviation device ought to work. The other explanation might be that this was a recrudescence of Jung's theory of the Universal Mind which move up and down in relation to the capabilities of the highest intellects and this may be a case of it reaching a very high peak of perception. But for the air industries to realize an electro-gravitic aircraft means a return to basic principles in nuclear physics, and a re-examination of much in wave technology that has hitherto been taken for granted. Anything that goes any way towards proving the unified field theory will have as great a bearing on electro-gravitics efforts as on the furtherance of nuclear power generally. But the aircraft industry might as well face up to the fact that priorities will in the end be competing with existing nuclear science commitments. The fact that electro-gravitics has important applications other than for a weapon will however strengthen the case for governments to get in on the work going on. Aviation Report 28 January 1955 MANAGEMENT NOTE FOR ELECTRO-GRAVITICS The gas turbine engine produced two new companies in the U.S. engine field and they have, between them, at various times offered the traditional primes rather formidable competition. Indeed GE at this moment has, in the view of some, taken the Number Two position. In Britain no new firms managed to get a footing, but one, Metro-Vick, might have done if it had put its whole energies into the business. It is on the whole unfortunate for Britain that no bright newcomer has been able to screw up competition in the engine field as English Electric have done in the airframe business. -29- Unlike the turbine engine, electro-gravitics is not just a new propulsion system, it is a new mode of thought in aviation and communications, and it is something that may become all-embracing. Theoretical studies of the science unfortunately have to extend right down to the mathematics of the meson and there is no escape from that. But the relevant facts wrung from the nature of the nuclear structure will have their impact on the propulsion system, the airframe and also its guidance. The airframe, as such, would not exist, and what is now a complicated stressed structure becomes some convenient form of hard envelope. New companies therefore who would like to see themselves as major defence prime contractors in ten or fifteen years time are the ones most likely to stimulate development. Several typical companies in Britain and the U.S. come to mind - outfits like AiResearch, Raytheon, Plessey in England, Rotex and others. But the companies have to face a decade of costly research into theoretical physics and it means a great deal of trust. Companies are mostly overloaded already and they cannot afford it, but when they sit down and think about the matter they can scarcely avoid the conclusion that they cannot affor not to be in at the beginning. Aviation Report 8 February 1955 ELECTRO-GRAVITICS BREAKTHROUGHS Lawrence Bell said last week that he thought that the tempo of development leading to the use of nuclear fuels and anti- gravitational vehicles (he meant presumabley ones that create their own gravitational field independently of the earth's) would accelerate. He added that the breakthroughs now feasible will advance their introduction ahead of the time it has taken to develop the turbojet to its present pitch. Beyond the thermal barrier was a radiation barrier, and he might have added ozone poisoning and meteorite hazards, and beyond that again a time barrier. Time however is not a single calculable entity and Einstein has taught that an absolute barrier to aviation is the environmental barrier in which there are physical limits to any kind of movement from one point in space-time continuum to another. Bell (the company not the man) have a reputation as -30- experimentalists and are not so earthy as some of the other U.S. companies; so while this first judgement on progress with electrogravitics is interesting, further word is awaited from the other major elements of the air business. Most of the companies are now studying several forms of propulsion without heat engines though it is early days yet to determine which method will see the light of day first. Procurement will open out because the capabilities of such aircraft are immeasureably greater than those envisaged with any known form of engine. Aviation Report 15 July 1955 THERMONUCLEAR-ELECTROGRAVITICS INTERACTION The point has been made that the most likely way of achieving the comparatively low fusion heat needed - 1,000,000 degrees provided it can be sustained (which it cannot be in fission for more than a microsecond or two at a time) - is by use of a linear accelerator. The concentration of energy that may be obtained when accelerators are rigged in certain ways make the production of very high temperatures feasible but whether they could be concentrated enough to avoid a thermal heat problem remains to be seen. It has also been suggested that linear accelerators would be the way to develop the high electrical energies needed for creation of local gravitation systems. It is possible therefore to imagine that the central core of a future air vehicle might be a linear accelerator which would create a local weightless state by use of electrostatic energy and turn heat into energy without chemical processes for propulsion. Eventually - towards the end of this century - the linear accelerator itself would not be required and a ground generating plant would transmit the necessary energy for both purposes by wave propagation. Aviation Report 30 August 1955 POINT ABOUT THERMONUCLEAR REACTION REACTORS The 20 year estimate bye the AEC last week that lies between present research frontiers and the fusion reactor -31- probably refers to the time it will take to tap fusion heat. But it may be thought that rather than use the molecular and chemical processes of twisting heat into thrust, it would be more appropriate to use the new heat source in conjunction with some form of nuclear thrust producer which would be in the form of electrostatic energy. The first two Boeing nuclearjet prototypes now under way are being designed to take either molecular jets or nuclear jets in cse the latter are held up for one reason or another. But the change from molecular to direct nuclear thrust production in conjunction with the thermonuclear reactor is likely to make the aircraft designed around the latter a totally different breed of cat. It is also expected to take longer than two decades, though younger executives in trade might expect to live to see a prototype. Aviation Report 14 October 1955 ELECTROGRAVITICS FEASIBILITY Opinion on the prospects of using electrostatic energy for propulsion, and eventually for creation of a local gravitational field isolated from the earth's has naturally polarized into the two opposite extremes. There are those who say it is nonsense from start to finish, and those who are satisfied from performance already physically manifest that it is possible and will produce air vehicles with absolute capabilities and no moving parts. The feasibility of a Mach 3 fighter (the present aim of studies) is dependent on a rather large k extrapolation, considering the pair of saucers that have physically demonstrated the principle only achieved a speed of some 30 fps. But, and this is important, they have attained a working velocity using a very inefficient (even by today's knowledge) form of condenser complex. These humble beginnings are surely as hopeful as Whittle's early postulations. It was, by the way, largely due to the early references in Aviation report that this work is gathering momentum in the U.S. Similar studies are beginning in France, and in England some men are on the job full time. Aviation Report 15 November 1955 -32- ELECTRO-GRAVITICS EFFORT WIDENING Companies studying the implications of gravitics are said, in a new statement, to include Glenn Martin, Convair, Sperry- Rand, Sikorsky, Bell, Lear Inc. and Clark Electronics. Other companies who have previously evinced interest include Lockheed, Douglas and Hiller. The remainder are not disinterested, but have not given public support to the new science - which is widening all the time. The approach in the U.S. is in a sense more ambitious than might have been expected. The logical approach, which has been suggested by Aviation Studies, is to concentrate on improving the output of electrostatic rigs in existence that are know to be able to provide thrust. The aim would be to concentrate on electrostatics for propulsion first and widen the practical engineering to include establishment of local field forcelines, independent of those of the earth's, to provide unfettered vertical movement as and when the mathematics develops. However, the U.S. approach is rather to put money into fundamental theoretical physics of gravitation in an effort first to create the local gravitational field. Working rigs would follow in the wake of the basic discoveries. Probably the correct course would be to sponsor both approaches, and it is now time that the military stepped in with big funds. The trouble about the idealistic approach to gravity is that the aircraft companies do not have the men to conduct such work. There is every expectation in any case that the companies likely to find the answers lie outside the aviation field. These would emerge as the masters of aviation in its broadest sense. The feeling is therefore that a company like A.T. & T. is most likely to be first in this field. This giant company (unknown in the air and weapons field) has already revolutionized modern warfare with the development of the junction transistor and is expected to find the final answers to absolute vehicle levitation. This therefore is where the bulk of the sponsoring money should go. Aviation Report 9 December 1955 * * * APPENDIX II ELECTROSTATIC PATENTS -34- The following patents derive from P. Jolivet (Algiers), marked 'A' and from N.J. Felici, E. Gartner (Centre National des Recherches Scientifique - CRNS ) later also by R. Morel, M. Point, etc... (S.A. des Machines Electrostatiques -SAMES- and of Societe d'Appareils de Controle et d'Equipment des Moteurs SACEM), marked 'G' (because the development was centred at the University of Grenoble). Mark Application of Date England America France Germany Title Applicant G 9-11-44 637,434 2,486,140 993,017 860,649 Electrostatic Influence 14-8-45 56,027 Machine G 17-11-44 639,653 2,523,688 993,052 815,667 Electrostatic Influence Machine A 28-2-45 912,444 Inducteurs de Machines el'static G 3-3-45 643,660 2,519,554 995,442 882,586 El'static Machines A 8-8-45 915,929 Machines electrostatiques a flasques A 16-8-45 918,547 Generatrice el'statique G 20-9-45 643,664 2,523,689 998,397 837,267 Electrostatic Machines 21-9-45 56,356 A 4-2-46 923,593 Generatrice el'statique G 17-7-46 643,579 2,530,193 1002,031 811,595 Generating Machines G 20-2-47 671,033 2,590,168 Ignition device G 21-3-47 655,474 2,542,494 944,574 860,650 El'static Machines Re-23,560 G 6-6-47 645,916 2,522,106 948,409 810,042 El'static Machines A 16-6-47 947,921 Generatrice el'statique G 16-1-48 669,645 2,540,327 961,210 810,043 El'static Machines G 21-1-49 669,454 2,617,976 997,991 815,666 El'static Machines G 7-2-49 675,649 2,649,566 1010,924 870,575 El'static Machines G 15-4-49 693,914 2,604,502 1011,902 832,634 Commutators for electrical machine G 9-11-49 680,178 2,656,502 1004,950 850,485 El'static Generate G 9-10-50 702,494 2,675,516 1030,623 El'static Generate 20-2-51 G 29-11-50 702,421 1028,596 El'static Generate 20-2-51 G 21-11-51 719,687 1051,430 F10421 El'static Machines G 20-8-52 731,773 2,702,869 938,198 El'static Machines G 6-11-52 745,489 El'static Generator G 12-2-53 745,783 Rotating El'static Machines G 8-1-52 715,010 2,685,654 1047,591 Rotating El'static Machines producing a periodical discharge Appl'n No G 27-2-54 5726/55 El'static Machines G 8-3-54 6790/55 El'static Machines G 28-1-55 2748/56 El'static Machines Note: ALL THE LISTED PATENTS ARE STILL IN FORCE <which may have changed since 1956...> Search for other documents from or mentioning: galevy | drudiak |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: 1998 MUFON Symposium From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 21:17:31 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 22:52:40 -0400 Subject: Re: 1998 MUFON Symposium >From: Michael Curta <UFOMedic@net1comm.com> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto (E-mail)" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: 1998 MUFON Symposium >Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 00:23:35 -0600 >For information on the 1998 MUFON Symposium to be held in >Denver, Colorado, Please see >http://www.net1comm.com/~COMUFON1 Thanks Michael...hey this is a great webpage. I love the music. Take care. REgards, Mike C.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: Writers & Fees From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 22:15:36 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:17:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Writers & Fees > Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 03:39:35 -0700 > From: Ted Viens <drtedv@smart1.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > > From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > > Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 14:36:55 -0500 > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > > ---snippety--- > > (Large snip) > > Hello John Velez: > > You made me think about how many writers I actually do know, in ufology, > > academia, and as journalists. I must be hangin' with the good ones > > because they all make money on their writings. There was only one writer > > I know personally who told me they didn't make any money on their writing > > and it was Phil Klass. (Anybody who knows Phil, knows I'm telling the > > truth here!<G>) So go figure. > > BB > Phil must have very foolishly failed to receive royalty on the vast number of his > books that Prometheus contributed to libraries around the country. His failur e to > capitalize on his writings must mostly be his own fault... > Bye... Ted.. Barbara, One has to wonder. Who are the writers that you know who are making money writing about UFOs? Gary Search for other documents from or mentioning: galevy | drtedv |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 21:42:45 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:19:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors >Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:58:09 -0400 >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Mike, >I have no doubt that there were UFO crashes prior to the one >at Socorro at the end of May in 1947. I, too, have talked to >sources who have vague information about crashes in 1945 and >possibly earlier. It is also possible that one was downed >during the war in Europe. >But you have to realize that most of us who are doing research >are limited to doing it part time and with limited funds. >To go chasing after such a vague story as you have presented >seems unlikely to be productive. >Bob Grin...Well Bob, I will have to check with my source and see if the person will give me permission to reveal more. If permission is granted, then I will be glad to give a few more details. Shucks, Bob, I don't want to make it to easy. Remember Bob, there are a lot of "armchair investigators," on this list. <G> Here is an opportunity to either get them to devote some serious research to this 1942 date, or zip the old lips. <g> REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 21:51:00 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:20:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 >Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:58:19 -0400 >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >As a veteran user of carbide lanterns, I'd like to make a technical >correction here. You do not burn carbide to make light. >Carbide is a substance which is usually sold in lumps or chunks. When >placed in water, it bubbles and releases acetylene gas. Carbide lanterns >either have a metal can to hold the water and carbide or you wear the can >on your waist and there is a hose carrying the acetylene to the lantern. You are correct, Bob. I have never used these lamps. But, when I was a child of 12 or so, I observed my uncles wearing them. They used them to "gig" frogs at night. I have seen them burn, and smelled them, but have no experience with them. >We used to use these for outdoor hiking at night and for occasional cave >exploring when I was a teenager. >Because it uses an open flame, a carbide lantern will cause an explosion >in a methane-filled mine. I doubt you'd want carbide lanterns on >a hydrogen-filled Zeppelin!!!!! OK...I have no problem with that. AS I said, I only saw them being used...I have seen miners wear them as well. >Bob REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 21:53:59 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:21:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 >Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 09:49:17 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: frizzell@umbc.edu (mike frizzell) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 >FYI: >Carbide lamps use calcium carbide and water as reactants to produce >acetylene gas. This highly flammable gas is slightly pressurized within the >lamp housing and trained through a fine orifice, which is centered within a >highly polished reflector. Once ignited, such a lamp can produce a >respectable amount of light. >Mike Frizzell Thanks Mike...I appreciate the description. I have seen them burn, but I didn't know exactly how they worked. I was only about 12 when I saw my uncles use them to hunt frogs at night. REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: Orlando, Florida Hotel Name? From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 23:48:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:22:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Orlando, Florida Hotel Name? > Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 06:57:09 +0000 > From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: HOTEL > Desar colleagues, > Does anyone out there know of a hotel in Orlando, Florida by the name of > the 'DELPHIN HOTEL' ? > This is something that came up a while back in regaqrds to the Santilli > film. This hotel, or one with a similar sounding name, was where a > representative from Polygram allegedly stayed while en-route to try and > meet the AA film cameraman. The meeting did not take place, but finding > the hotel might help us narrow down the search area. > All the best, > Philip. There is a Dolphin Hotel at the Walt Disney World in Orlando, the hotel is managed by Sheraton. Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: Be Good While I'm Gone, Folks!!! From: HONEYBE100@aol.com [Linda Cortile] Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 23:51:23 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:26:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Be Good While I'm Gone, Folks!!! Hi Errol and Everyone! I'm leaving on a trip this Thursday, September 11th. I'll be back September 17th. Please be good while I'm away! <G> Once again, I want to thank, Errol, for going through all the threads, etc. Wheww! I do appreciate you. Steven Kaeser, Bob Shell, Jerry Clark, Ted Viens, Dennis Stacey, Greg Sandow, John Velez, Scott Hale, Roger Prokic, Sean Jones, Paul Wedel, Jared, my friend Bill in N.C. and the gentlemen I've met down in the restaurant during the Annual MUFON conference in 1992, named Mike? Even though I'll be gone for just a few days, as UFO Updates - Toronto - has been so habit forming for me, I'm gonna miss all of you. After reading all of the posts regarding, "the question of UFO witness anonymity," it's nice to know where all of your hearts are. They're certainly in the right place, no matter what your opinions have been. People like me and others too, are lucky to have you all within this UFO community. It's a good sign for the future, meaning that, others might have their anonymity respected and protected. This would mean that researchers/investi- gators alike, could go on with their UFO studies, etc., without having to worry about their subjects and visa versa. You're good people. So, continue to be good while I'm gone. <G> I hope I haven't left anyone out of my thank you's. Thank you to everyone who supports UFO witness anonymity. See you soon! Lova ya! Linda Cortile
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 02:11:46 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:34:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 > From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson] > Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 19:58:30 -0400 (EDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 > >Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 09:49:17 -0400 > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >From: frizzell@umbc.edu (mike frizzell) > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 > >>Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 17:36:46 -0400 > >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >>From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> > >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 > >>>Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 22:33:10 +0100 > >>>From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > >>>To: updates@globalserve.net > >>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 > >>>> There were also carbide and oil lamps in use at that time. > >>>Not in any airplane before the twenties, at least that's my take on the > >>>info. I'm a pilot and an airplane buff anyway. I've seen alot of > >>>antiques in my day and recall seeing nothing in the way of lighting > >>>systems in the machines of the teens and twenties. I have no doubt that > >>>airships had the room but suspect some type of low level lights strictly > >>>for cabin purposes during the bombing raids over London during WW I. > >>>Carbide lights would imply generators for the high current, and oil > >>>lights in a hydrogen filled gas bag sounds doubtful to me. What I'm > >>>saying is if any of these sightings of airships from 1894 til say 1910 > >>>or 1915 reported brilliant lights as are the case nowadays, then you > >>>could rule out the manmade versions in use at that time. The power was > >>>just not there. > >>No, Don, I 'm talking about the type of carbide which miners use on their > >>hard hats for underground. It was a sulfer type powder, which they burned. > >>It gave off a bright light but was extreemely portable. > >>You are aware that in these underground pockets there are occasionally > >>methane gas pockets found. So, I don't know if burning carbide would > >>cause an explosion or not. Now days, they use battery powered lamps. > >FYI: > >Carbide lamps use calcium carbide and water as reactants to produce > >acetylene gas. This highly flammable gas is slightly pressurized within the > >lamp housing and trained through a fine orifice, which is centered within a > >highly polished reflector. Once ignited, such a lamp can produce a > >respectable amount of light. > >Mike Frizzell > List members, > Why couldn't they have used battery operated lights? Georges Lelanche > invented the zinc-carbon battery in 1868 and Thomas A. Edison invented the > light bulb in 1880. Elmer Sperry invented the arc light, which required a > generator, in 1880. Dynamos and generators were around since the late 18th > century. In 1872 Paul Haelein built the first airship powered by an > internal combustion engine using gas from inside the balloon. > Drew Williamson Hello List, I think you folks are missing the point here. Making light was not the problem. Making really bright lights that 1) were flame proof in an airship environment [hydrogen], 2) were powered by batteries light enough to get off the ground which pretty much rules out the extremely heavy and inefficient batteries of the day, 3) could operate off of a generator small enough so that it could be lifted into the air because generators around the turn of the century were monsters compared to their current output. The point I was trying to make is that brightly lit airships in those days were pretty much a dream and the term was a substitute for the type of UFO reported over the last fifty years. Only very dim, red or green light is used for instrument lighting in aircraft even today [to preserve night vision] and would be all that was required in the airships of the day and could easily be supplied by several small batteries. Aircraft did not carry navigation lights until the mid to late twenties since there was little need for them. By then they had more efficient/lightweight batteries and generators. Most airplanes did not begin to employ starters until the late twenties and early thirties and they were passenger/cargo airplanes. I offered the idea in the first place to refute the actual "airship" idea as the proper identification for what were probably UFOs of a more conventional type but coached in the terms of the day. Regards, Don Ledger Search for other documents from or mentioning: dledger | werd |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 10 Blood Sport in Ufology From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 00:10:40 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:37:38 -0400 Subject: Blood Sport in Ufology > From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] > Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 09:20:53 PDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > > From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > > Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 15:15:49 -0500 > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity < big snip > > If we can no longer promise a witness anonymity because > down the line somebody may decree that he or she doesn't deserve > it, then let me be the first to urge that no UFO witnesses desiring > privacy step forward ever again. Especially in these days when > the trashing of witnesses (not to mention colleagues) has become a > blood sport in some quarters of ufology. > Jerry Clark Jerry, Speaking of the blood sport in ufology. I was reading Jacques Vallee's "Forbidden Science" and on page 386 under Willingboro, Thursday 3 April 1969 he says: "Don [Hanlon] believes that Jerome Clark, a young ufologist from Chicago, has become so convinced that an extraterrestrial invasion was imminent that he has been driven close to a breakdown". I am trying to elucidate the role Jacques Vallee has played in ufology and I would appreciate your commentary on this somewhat remarkable comment he made regarding you in his book. Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: Orlando, Florida Hotel Name? From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 21:20:47 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:41:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Orlando, Florida Hotel Name? >Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 18:14:30 -0400 >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Orlando, Florida Hotel Name? >To: BlindCopyReceiver:; >>Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 06:57:09 +0000 >>From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: HOTEL >There is no Delphin hotel in the Orlando phone book. Also, there is no >Dolphin hotel either. An fact, in the D section, there is only >Day's Inn, Delta, Disney, and Doubletree. >No luck there. Another false lead. You might try "Dauphin." Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> Search for other documents from or mentioning: turel33 | 76750.2717 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: 'The Mystery of the Flying Saucers Revealed' From: Marty Garza <74044.1304@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 00:22:09 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:43:55 -0400 Subject: Re: 'The Mystery of the Flying Saucers Revealed' [Non- Subscriber Post -ebk] >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) >Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 08:31:11 -0700 >Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 10:21:19 -0400 >Subject: 'The Mystery of the Flying Saucers Revealed' >THE MYSTERY OF THE FLYING SAUCER REVEALED is >the title, in English, of a book written in >Indonesia in 1961 by Colonel J. Salatun, Secretary >of the Indonesian Joint Chiefs of Staff. There was >a forward written by Air Force Chief of Staff, Air >Chief Marshall S. Suryadarma. The book is mentioned >briefly in the UFO EVIDENCE. >Loren Gross told me he has seen this book sometimes >advertisted for sale by Arcturus Books. However, he >was never able to get a copy as it was quickly bought >by someone else. We would be interested in >obtaining a copy of this book. Greetings Jan, You might give Dennis Whelan a call at (501)-431-8830. I have had a great deal of luck obtaining rare out-of-print books from him in the past. If he doesn't have it he probably knows where to find it. Hope this helps. Marty G.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 10 MUFON Journal Muses From: Theresa <110213.3274@compuserve.com> [Theresa Carlson] Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 02:47:53 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:48:18 -0400 Subject: MUFON Journal Muses This amuses me, as it may some others in that have been around Ufology for a while. I think it's 'cute'. In the last edition of the MUFON Journal, August 1997, Number 352, on page 16, about halfway down the second column, there is a book review. A glowing review of a recently published book, that includes quotes from a well known author in the field of Ufology, Jerome Clark. Not a problem and it sounds like a good book about the last 50 years of UFOs. Until you get to the end and you realize that the review is written by one of the authors of the book, Dennis Stacy. Well, it's one way to ensure a good review! It also makes the book look a bit "cheap" and maybe even "prostituted". Excuse me Mr. Stacy, but couldn't you find one other person to write a review of your book? Prior to this review, this book by you and Hilary Evans was recommeded for reading to me by at least one well known name in Ufology so I know you could have gotten even a good review if that was what you were after. But to write your own review of your own book... I don't know what to say about that, other than it looks 'cheap' to me. Regards, Theresa Carlson MUFON member
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:04:57 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:55:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention >Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 20:57:08 -0400 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Regarding... >>Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 17:55:35 -0400 >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Documentation of the transistor's >>invention >Steve wrote: >>We can research the historical record forever, but it is unlikely >>that one would find reference to information that came out of no >>where, since that would have probably cause the Journal reviewers to >>send it back. >Steve, >I think we might find that material which documents the successful >development of the first transistor, will call on previous knowledge >which can be verified and the continuity established. >As noted before, the transistor wasn't a miraculous new concept. There >had been a drive for some years to simply find an alternative to the >vacuum tube, one which offered the same functionality, but with >improvements in size, performance, manufacturing and running costs. >There's an interesting article in Scientific American, (Nov 1965, >V213, No. 5, pp 56-70), entitled "Microelectronics", co-authored by >William Hittinger and Morgan Sparks. At the time, both were senior >figures in semiconductor development at Bell Telephone Laboratories, >Sparks having been with Bell Labs since 1943. >The article makes a point that, "The first transistors had no striking >advantage in size over the smallest tubes; they were - and remained >for many years - more costly, and although they promised greater >reliability and longer life, these attributes took years to >demonstrate". [text deleted] >Interestingly, they claim that "As of 1955, no major item of military >electronics had yet been transistorized; the commercial use of >transistors was limited almost entirely to hearing aids". >It was between 1955 and 1965 that "the electronics industry developed >and reduced to produce a remarkable microelectronic technology". They >reference in particular the Minuteman solid-fuel ICBM (circa 1961-63) >as spurring military requirements. James, and all- I think that we can trace the transistor's development through the historical record, but that wouldn't negate the concept of "seeding", if it took the form of hints and suggestions to the scientists or engineers involved. If "alien" technology was obtained by the military (or whomever) in 1947, that technology would have to be recognizable (to some degree) to whomever was trying to utilize it, if it was to have an impact on our techological developement of the transistor by 1948-49 as some have alleged. A completely alien technology would not likely have had an impact otherwise, until our technology level was advanced enough to understand its workings. As you point out, when the transistor was first developed in the 40's, it was bulky and expensive. But by 1955-56 we had advanced to microelectronic technology, which indicates that advances were made that seem to correspond to the alleged dates of several "crashes". I think there is an assumption here that the historical written record provices a complete picture as to the development of technology, however I would suggest that the record we are talking about is annecdotal to some degree. Whatever you read is from a certain point of view, and may or may not be complete. Even if the "seeding" took place, it wouldn't likely show up in the written record. >>>The seminal work on the field is suggested to be Shockley's >>>"Electrons and Holes in Semiconductors" >>>The original paper on the development of the transistor is >>>apparently: >>>J. Bardeen and W.H. Brattain, "Physical Principles Involved in >>>Transistor Action", Phys. Rev. 75, 1208-1225 (1949). >>>I should be able to obtain copies of both. >>That's easily done... >I know a certain Chief Librarian who might disagree. >"You want WHAAATT!!!!" Sorry. I work three blocks from the Library of Congress. The article looks like it's only 17 pages long, and I'll see if I can track it down and copy the relevent section. If someone else locates it, please let me know.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: Loy Pressley <lpressle@webwide.net> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 06:42:25 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:26:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 18:59:40 -0700 > > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/9/97 4:46 PM: > > From: wlmss@peg.apc.org [Lawrie Williams] > > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 04:09:02 +1000 > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > > It is surely significant that the only star system we have had an > > opportunity to study in detail has nine planets and at least one > > habitat capable of supporting humanoids who have developed space > > travel - namely us. > This is an instance of what's called the "anthropic principle" and you have > to watch out for it. In the "weak anthropic principle", which I tend to agree > with, the reason the solar system is the home to life which can understand > it is that this is a place where conditions allow life to survive and evolve, > eventually arriving at intelligent creatures. Obviously, we could not exist > in a solar system where conditions were too hostile for that to occur, thus > it is not surprising that we are here, but it does not prove that life exists > anywhere else. How about: we evolved here so we think that the conditions here are required for life to survive and evolve? Coud it be that we, as a race of beings, are a little bit prejudiced because our kind of life evolved under the conditions prevalent on planet Earth? We could be just a little smidgen biased towards looking for life in conditions similar to our own. The fact that we are here would seem to tend to make us favor conditions elsewhere similar to our own. Maybe because we evolved here we think that earthlike conditions are the only conditions able to support life. Who knows...it might not even be possible to detect, much less communicate with 'life', that evolved under conditions unlike our own. Maybe we need to change our definition of what 'life' is. Is a virus alive? I think that one is still being argued. I guess what I'm saying is that I sure don't know what possible life forms may be out there and I don't think anyone else (here on Earth, anyway) knows either. And, in my opinion, it is way too early in our exploration to bias ourselves to pondering only life like our own just because that happens to be the only life we currently know. However, if you are religious, you know that there is at least one other kind of life out there somewhere. Search for other documents from or mentioning: lpressle | mcashman |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:37:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:27:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous >From: wlmss@peg.apc.org [Lawrie Williams] >Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 04:10:46 +1000 >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Zeta Notso Ridiculous >There is no evidence that he was not, either. It seems more likely, >given the climate during that period. Also hairlessness is quite >rare amongst the primates. There is no reason to assume neandertal >was hairless just because humans are, or just because artists have >always depicted him that way. Actually, there is such evidence from Neanderthal burials. Some have been found in very good states of preservation, and only signs of head hair, axillary hiar, pubic hair, and in males facial hair have ever been found. They may well have been less hairy than us. Back when I was doing a lot of work in cryptozoology, I studied a lot of Bigfoot sightings. They are consistent, with the only size variations of any importance being between males and females, and between adults and juveniles. Long hair over the whole body except around the eyes, nose and lips, is always reported. A conical head with prominent cranial ridge and often a crest of hair is also reported. And this makes sense, since a hominid with a diet of leaves and coarse vegitation would have such a cranial ridge for the attachment of strong jaw muscles. The anatomy of the Bigfoot's foot is distinctly non-human. The toes are proportionally much longer, and the heel is also longer, and the foot flexes differently during the stride. Neanderthal feet look just like ours (or at least like ours look when we grow up without wearing shoes). Neanderthals overlapped modern man in many places both in time and place. Cohabiting populations still did not interbreed, which indicates that their were either strong social proscriptions or a biological incompatibility. Given that genetic analysis of Neanderthal DNA indicates they were slightly closer to us than chimps, it would seem that there was no biological reason to prevent interbreeding (human/chimp hybrids are possible, but never known to occur in nature). More likely, human males simply did not find Neanderthal females sexually attractive, and vice versa. Recent study of extremely well preserved Neanderthal remains have shown from the form of the hyoid bone that it was unlikely that Neanderthals were capable of speech, which makes their apparently well developed culture puzzling. Maybe they communicated with a mixture of vocalizations and sign language. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:37:18 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:28:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention >Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 20:57:08 -0400 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> James, I have no expertise about transistors. But during my teens I was a religious reader of the old science fiction/science fact magazine Analog. I distinctly remember an article they published some time in the mid-60s about the transistor, and in this article they pointed out that the transistor had actually been discovered (which is more accurate than invented) many years before the official invention by Bell Labs, but at the time of this discovery no one could conceive of any use for it so it was written up in some journal and then forgotten. I wonder if anyone else on this list used to read Analog back then, and if they recall the article, or even better if someone might still have a copy of it. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: Phil Corso stole my book! From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson] Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 19:58:42 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:49:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Phil Corso stole my book! List members, There has been much speculation lately about Philip Corso's book and his alledged story of alien intervention, intentional or not, in such things as our technology. I have watched this debate with much amusement since it began on several UFO-related E-mail lists. My amusement stems from the fact that more than two years prior to Mr. Corso's book's debut, I had been writing an article for our newsletter along very similar lines. I never completed the article, but it had led me into some interesting areas to look for my conspiracy theory, such as Bell Labs. My intention, however, was to exploit the next conspiracy theory before it began. My article, however, was never meant to be taken seriously. To wit, Mr. Corso beat me to the press. Throughout ufology there have been continual attempts at one-upmanship. First there were only sightings of unusual craft, then came the landings, then sightings of occupants and finally, abductions. In his book"Angels and Aliens," Keith Thompson states that the ante will soon have to be "upped" if abductions are to hold the public's interest. The next event, he predicted, would be a witness to an alien abduction, and shortly thereafter we had the Linda Cortile case. With this in mind, I set about wondering what would be the next stage of the "nuts and bolts" aspects of the phenomenon. It quickly struck me that if such events as the Roswell incident took place, then the technological ramifications of such an event should be evident. This looked like prime soil in which to plant another conspiracy theory, or at least an extension of those already present. I began investigating what technologies sprang up in 1947 or shortly thereafter. One of the first things I came across was the invention of the transistor. In actual fact the transistor was not invented, but rather developed from a lesser transistor. This experimentation began long before the Roswell incident. It was the addition of specific impurities into the crystals being used that produced a fully funtioning transistor. The invention of fibre optics began with the discovery by Narinder S. Kapany in India in 1955 that a glass fibre with cladding surrounding it, could conduct light over great distances. Communication by use of light was nothing new, however, since Alexander Bell had developed his photophone in mid 1880! This conveyed the human voice by use of light waves and selenium cells, devices still in use today in photo light meters and a similar product on the MIR space station in the form of photo-electric cells. I have not read Mr. Corso's book, but I have not heard that he mentioned that; the principles of holography were established in 1947; the first microwave oven was invented in 1947, the first practical nuclear reactors were started in 1947 (two in Canada and one in the U.S. The first one was in operation at the University of Chicago, Dec. 2, 1942); the Bell X-1 breaks the sound barrier in October 1947; a C-54 transport plane crosses the Atlantic entirely on automatic pilot in 1947; the U.S. Navy adopts the idea of building nuclear submarines in 1947; the magnetic drum for data storage that was invented in 1948; the 200 inch telescope at Mt. Palomar went into operation in January 1948; Velcro, invented in 1948 by a Swiss engineer, George deMestral was discovered when he starts to wonder how burrs are sticking to his dogs coat; cable TV starts in the U.S. in 1948; magnetic tape was invented in 1948; the X-ray reflection microscope invented in 1948 by Paul Kirkpatrick, and there are many other examples. For the record; Dec. 29, 1939 Shockley mentions in his notebook that it should be possible to replace vacuum tubes with semiconductors. (7-1/2 years before Roswell) 1942 Shockley starts working for Bell Labs. (Approx. 5 years before Roswell) Dec. 16, 1947 Shockley, Bardeen and others announce the first recognition of the transistor effect. Dec. 23, 1947 They report this effect to Bell Labs management. July 1, 1948 The New York Times announces the discovery in its "News of Radio" section. Perhaps the timing of the release of the book bears closer examination. With the U.S. Air Force trying their damdest to get the Roswellians of their backs, they send them on another goosechase. Perhaps we should be looking at dis-information techniques as applied to the masses rather than "alien-aided" technology. Drew Williamson P.S. -If you would like a copy of the incomplete article I was working on which includes other elements to add to our 1947 conspiracy, just E-mail me. P.S.S. -Bell Labs had a film department, which had as one of their duties, making films to be shown to the public with the intent to inform them to expect wondorous advances in technology from Bell Labs. How's that for conspiracy material? P.S.S.S -Do not use 1940's and 50's technology on interstellar travel as it may result in a major malfunction (ie. a crash) You have been forwarned!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: MUFON Journal Muses From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:53:08 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:45:02 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON Journal Muses > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 02:47:53 -0400 > From: Theresa <110213.3274@compuserve.com> [Theresa Carlson] > Subject: MUFON Journal Muses > To: updates@globalserve.net > In the last edition of the MUFON Journal, August 1997, Number > 352, on page 16, about halfway down the second column, there is > a book review. > A glowing review of a recently published book, that includes > quotes from a well known author in the field of Ufology, Jerome > Clark. > Not a problem and it sounds like a good book about the last > 50 years of UFOs. > Until you get to the end and you realize that the review is > written by one of the authors of the book, Dennis Stacy. > Well, it's one way to ensure a good review! It also makes the > book look a bit "cheap" and maybe even "prostituted". > Excuse me Mr. Stacy, but couldn't you find one other person to > write a review of your book? Okay, then, Theresa, *I'll* comment on the book. It *is* an excellent overview of the past 50 years of the UFO phenomenon, including major international cases from France, Scandinavia, Africa, Canada and The USA. It has a lot of insight into the early days of ufology and profiles several prominent figures in the field. So, overall, I'd have to rate the book fairly high. Its list of contributors includes many authors of whom UFO readers are well-acquainted, as well as a host of lesser ones. Wait a minute, looks like *I* was a contributor, too. Sorry, please ignore this review. > I don't know what to say about that, other than it looks 'cheap' to me. I've been called worse. :) -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada Search for other documents from or mentioning: rutkows | 110213.3274 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:14:05 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:45:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 >Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 02:11:46 +0100 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 Don, Don't forget hot air balloons, which of necessity have a very hot and bright fire to make the hot air that lifts them. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 10 FCC response to complaint about Pat Robertson From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:54:33 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:48:23 -0400 Subject: FCC response to complaint about Pat Robertson Hi all, Well it looks like Pat Robertson does have the right to incite his followers to voilence, at least according to this note from the FCC. I don't buy it. Bob Shell --------------- Forwarded Message --------------- From: Glenda Briscoe, INTERNET:GBRISCOE@fcc.gov Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:04:17 -0400 From: Glenda Briscoe <GBRISCOE@fcc.gov> To: 76750.2717@CompuServe.COM Subject: Program content I have received your internet comments regarding program content. I appreciate the opportunity to respond. The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution grants a broad right of freedom of expression which can only be curtailed in very limited circumstances. The Federal Communications Commission does not have the authority to regulate program content except in cases of indecency and obscenity. While the statements may be offensive, the statements are protected by the First Amendment. Therefore, the Commission does not have the authority to address your concern in this matter. I trust that this response will prove both informative and helpful.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: Blood Sport in Ufology From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:06:24 PDT Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:52:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Blood Sport in Ufology > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 00:10:40 -0400 > From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Blood Sport in Ufology > < big snip > > > If we can no longer promise a witness anonymity because > > down the line somebody may decree that he or she doesn't deserve > > it, then let me be the first to urge that no UFO witnesses desiring > > privacy step forward ever again. Especially in these days when > > the trashing of witnesses (not to mention colleagues) has become a > > blood sport in some quarters of ufology. > > Jerry Clark > Jerry, > Speaking of the blood sport in ufology. > I was reading Jacques Vallee's "Forbidden Science" and on page 386 > under Willingboro, Thursday 3 April 1969 he says: > > "Don [Hanlon] believes that Jerome Clark, a young ufologist from > Chicago, has become so convinced that an extraterrestrial invasion was > imminent that he has been driven close to a breakdown". > I am trying to elucidate the role Jacques Vallee has played in ufology > and I would appreciate your commentary on this somewhat remarkable > comment he made regarding you in his book. > Gary Alevy Gary, Ah yes, the Vallee reference. Back in those long-ago days I was strongly under the influence of John Keel, who at one point declared me his successor. I took him pretty seriously. In those days John believed that an ultra (not extra) terrestrial invasion was imminent, and I, being young and foolish, believed him. "Driven close to a breakdown" is hyperbole and, I suspect, a 1990s addition to what Vallee represents as a 1967 reference, presumably to get back at me for critical writings on Vallee's approach (e.g., "The Thickets of Magonia," IUR, January/February 1990). I do admit to being excitable in those days. It was, after all, the '60s. I well remember visiting Keel's Manhattan apartment in 1967 and seeing him, along with a young couple who were fellow believers, brandishing gas masks in anticipation of the UT takeover of NYC, and presumably the nation and the world. Heady stuff. The result, where I was concerned, was a permanent cure of paranoia. I have felt much better since then, in large part because long ago I stopped taking either Keel or Vallee seriously. I have written extensively on what I see as the flaws of the paranormal/occult approach K & V champion. See, for example, relevant entries in Volume 3 of my UFO Encyclopedia. The second edition of the Encyclopedia, which will be out by the end of the year, also carries extended discussions of Keel and Vallee and their roles in this field. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:27:33 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:53:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/10/97 8:34 AM: > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 02:11:46 +0100 > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 > I offered the idea in the first place to refute the actual "airship" > idea as the proper identification for what were probably UFOs of a more > conventional type but coached in the terms of the day. Don, Your idea is, of course particularly well taken for the "searchlight cases" where an object hundreds or thousands of feet in the air illuminated the ground below, and cases where the object itself was fully luminous (since its light source would have to be inside the envelope). ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 10 Philip Going To Regina, Saskatchewan From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 04:44:58 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:55:08 -0400 Subject: Philip Going To Regina, Saskatchewan Dear colleague, I wonder if you could be of some assistance. In December of this year my wife and family will be visiting my sister-in-law in Regina, Saskatchewan. While I am there I wondered if there was a UFO group in the area who might like a lecture from a visiting British UFO researcher. I will be in Regina from the 18-30 of December. For those that might not know me, I am the Press Officer for the British UFO Research Association and the MUFON Representative for England. I am the co-author of two UFO books: WITHOUT CONSENT (l994) and BEYOND ROSWELL (l997). I have lectured extensively throughout the UK, Europe, Scandinavia and the USA. If you know of any organisation that might like an illustrated lecture during my trip to Canada you might ask them to contact me at: Philip Mantle, 1 Woodhall drive, Batley, West Yorkshire, England, WF17 7SW. Tele/Fax: 01924 444049. E-Mail: el51@dial.pipex.com Yours Sincerely, Philip Mantle.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 10 MUFON Journal Muses From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:05:34 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:57:31 -0400 Subject: MUFON Journal Muses >Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 02:47:53 -0400 >From: Theresa <110213.3274@compuserve.com> [Theresa Carlson] >Subject: MUFON Journal Muses >To: updates@globalserve.net >This amuses me, as it may some others in that have been around >Ufology for a while. I think it's 'cute'. >In the last edition of the MUFON Journal, August 1997, Number >352, on page 16, about halfway down the second column, there is >a book review. >A glowing review of a recently published book, that includes >quotes from a well known author in the field of Ufology, Jerome >Clark. >Not a problem and it sounds like a good book about the last >50 years of UFOs. >Until you get to the end and you realize that the review is >written by one of the authors of the book, Dennis Stacy. >Well, it's one way to ensure a good review! It also makes the >book look a bit "cheap" and maybe even "prostituted". >Excuse me Mr. Stacy, but couldn't you find one other person to >write a review of your book? Given enough hours in the day, you can probably find anything. On a monthly schedule--the only one for a UFO journal, ahem, in the world--time is a luxury I don't always have. If you read my "review" -- or, as I prefer, my announcement -- closely you'll note that I mention in the first paragraph, "in the interest of full disclosure," that I am one of the book's co-editors. The quote from Jerome Clark came from his review in the last issue of IUR. He's also one of the book's contributors, of which there are 30 total. In fact, when I was orginally putting the anthology together, I joked with my colleague, Hilary, that we would have to leave someone out so they could review the damn thing. It also got a good review in Fortean Times, but what did you expect? They published it. >Prior to this review, this book by you and Hilary Evans was >recommeded for reading to me by at least one well known name >in Ufology so I know you could have gotten even a good review >if that was what you were after. >But to write your own review of your own book... >I don't know what to say about that, other than it looks 'cheap' to me. > Regards, > Theresa Carlson > MUFON member You call $27.95 plus $3.00 s/h cheap? Checks or money order to: Dennis Stacy Box 12434 San Antonio Texas 78212 That title again is UFOs 1947-1997: Fifty Years of Flying Saucers, hb, 272 pp., illus., index, contributions by Jacques Vallee, Jerome Clark, Michael Swords, Ray Fowler, Karl Pflock, Jenny Randles, Cynthia Hind, Jan Aldrich, Kenneth Arnold, Jim Moseley, Chris Rutkowski, John Rimmer, Bob Durant, etc, etc. In other words, a who's who of ufology. In the past I've also reviewed The Anomalist, which I publish and co-edit. In fact, I'll probably be reviewing The Anomalist 6 in the next issue of the MUFON Journal. Anyone who doesn't like my reviews is free to write their own counterview. I'll be happy to run it. SA Sasquatch & Literary Prostitute Esquire Oops, I almost forgot! The Anomalist is only $9.95 an issue plus $2.50 s/h. Now that's cheap!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:15:00 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:00:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/10/97 9:26 AM: > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 06:42:25 -0700 > From: Loy Pressley <lpressle@webwide.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > How about: we evolved here so we think that the conditions here are > required for life to survive and evolve? > Coud it be that we, as a race of beings, are a little bit prejudiced > because our kind of life evolved under the conditions prevalent on > planet Earth? We could be just a little smidgen biased towards looking > for life in conditions similar to our own. The fact that we are here > would seem to tend to make us favor conditions elsewhere similar to our > own. Well, let me put it this way: Life as we know it requires at least two components: 1) A self-reproducing polymer with sufficient variability to encode for other polymers (DNA and RNA are the only ones of which I am aware) 2) Materials which can be used to make polymers and which can through more or less direct routes, be manipulated by (1) (in our form of life, these are amino acids, used to make proteins) Experiments have shown that amino acids can be formed under conditions similar to the primitive earth, and, likewise, that proteins and fats can form into hollow spheres called coacervates, which appear to be primitive cell membranes. In addition there is some evidence that DNA or RNA chains can form in certain moist environments, possibly with the catalytic effect of clay minerals. For the initial generation of life's chemical precursors then, we require 1) Water 2) A temperature allowing free water but no so high as to disrupt polymer or nucleic acid formation 3) Various CHON compounds in the water 4) Energy sufficient to stimulate the production of amino acids (i.e. electrical or UV rays) but not so powerful as to disrupt same 5) Whatever environments are necessary to form DNA / RNA, with the same kinds of constraints (surfaces?) 6) A reasonable pressure environment which allows water to remain liquid Many of these same constraints are required for the continued functioning of life, but some are more relaxed due to the ability of cells and masses of cells to protect their internals from somewhat more hostile external conditions. However, even organisms have limits to their heat, radiation, and pressure tolerances. Now, it's fine to speculate on the possibility of other forms of life, but even if based on some other combinations of chemicals, not yet found by scientists, which have the requisite properties of self-reproduction, polymer formation, etc. which would seem required to create a solid, differentiated organism (and I stress that I am not aware of any chemicals which are considered as candidates to replace DNA / RNA in their roles as replicators), there are still going to be some needs with regard to getting evolution started, such as the ability of the chemicals to move in the environment, which implies a liquid environment, temperature and pressure conditions where chemical interactions are extremely likely and where the products of such reactions will not immediately be destroyed. Unlikely environments include the vacuum of space or surfaces exposed to that vacuum, high energy / radiation environments, etc. Also note that carbon compounds have specific properties which make them widely useful in constructing living organisms, and those properties are not shared by other chemicals. That's why organic chemistry is such a large subject, even though it is only the chemistry of carbon compounds. Now this isn't prejudice, it's just science. To bring this back to UFOs, the case literature is quite clear on the nature of the occupants. The vast majority are bilateral, and bipedal, seem to be able to (at least with the use of artificial aids) to tolerate our gravity, in some cases can tolerate our air, use a spectral range similar to ours for vision, and can even come in physical contact with earth organisms and chemicals without suffering / causing violent allergic reactions. These observations seem to largely leave out weird silicon life forms, or organisms with wildly different biochemistries. > Maybe because we evolved here we think that earthlike conditions are the > only conditions able to support life. Who knows...it might not even be > possible to detect, much less communicate with 'life', that evolved > under conditions unlike our own. Maybe we need to change our definition > of what 'life' is. Is a virus alive? I think that one is still being > argued. Well, a virus really inhabits a vague area between being alive and not being alive. If there were no living organisms, however, there would be no way for a virus to survive. Certainly there is no pressing reason to change our definition of life, but if we find some weird silicon / sulfur millipede crawling around on Io, I have no problem with engaging in such a reevaluation. But I suspect even then it will not require us to change our definition of life, just our concepts of biochemistry, and that's a lot less fundamental. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:47:59 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:05:52 -0400 Subject: Re: > Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 03:39:35 -0700 > From: Ted Viens <drtedv@smart1.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > > From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > > Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 14:36:55 -0500 > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > > ---snippety--- > > (Large snip) > > Hello John Velez: > > You made me think about how many writers I actually do know, in > > ufology, academia, and as journalists. I must be hangin' with the > > good ones because they all make money on their writings. There was > > only one writer I know personally who told me they didn't make any > > money on their writing and it was Phil Klass. (Anybody who knows > > Phil, knows I'm telling the truth here!<G>) So go figure. > > BB > Phil must have very foolishly failed to receive royalty on the vast > number of his books that Prometheus contributed to libraries around > the country. His failure to capitalize on his writings must mostly be > his own fault... > Bye... Ted.. Sorry guys, I guess my humor was too vague. The point was that sometimes the one who protests the loudest has nothing to protest about. BB
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 10 They're Here From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:54:21 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 17:33:14 -0400 Subject: They're Here --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: They're Here Date: 97-09-10 10:04:52 EDT From: AOL News UFO Sightings All Over the Inland Empire Set Off a Flurry of Calls to the UFO ENCOUNTERS Main Site POMONA, Calif., Sept. 10 /PRNewswire/ -- The following is being issued by UFO ENCOUNTERS: Thousands of Inland Empire residents called Government Officials this morning panicking at the UFO sighting and landing in their backyard. Many thought this was some sort of hoax, but others are convinced that extra- terrestrials have landed and are among us. Opening on Thursday, September 11, 1997 at The LA County Fair in Pomona, UFO ENCOUNTERS appears to be the home site of our visitors. Not only was the alleged landing said to be in the Inland Empire, but it coincides with the realistic setting of the inter-active adventure -- located only a few short miles away from the landing. Many residents have followed the visitors (incognito, of course) directly to the UFO ENCOUNTERS site. A spokesperson for UFO ENCOUNTERS was heard saying, "maybe our adventure is too real." "Although we tried hard to make this experience as real as possible, we never thought it would get this type of attention." LA County Fair patrons who visit UFO ENCOUNTERS will not only get a dose of fiction, but it now seems that reality has set in. Are aliens fact or fiction? UFO ENCOUNTERS will have both. For every Los Angeleno to judge. After a short 50 years from the landing in Roswell, it appears that THEY'RE BACK. CO: UFO ENCOUNTERS ST: California IN: ENT SU: To edit your profile, go to keyword NewsProfiles. For all of today's news, go to keyword News.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: Writers & Fees From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:58:50 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:17:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Writers & Fees > Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:58:11 -0400 > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > >Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 15:15:49 -0500 > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > Barbara, > I do think it is important to shatter the stereotype many people > have about how much money someone makes from a book. I don't > mean by this that people aren't influenced by money. Certainly > not. I became a writer in the first place to make a living at it, > and only realized later just how hard that really is. I totally agree with you. Writing (or any of the arts) is a very difficult profession. You write first for yourself, and then pray that somebody else wants to read it! (Even buy it!) > In an unrelated message posted here today, I see that someone is > offering abductees $100 a week to spill their guts for a book. > Now for me $100 a week would not serve as an incentive to do much > of anything, but for many that may represent a lot of money, and > making a public posting of such an offer is like saying "calling > all wackos and nutcases. I'll pay you to invent weird stories > for me." I'd never pay someone to be interviewed for a book. This > is bad journalism and a violation of basic journalistic ethics. That post made me heart sick. Not because it would be a "call for all wackos" but because there will be real abductees out there who just want someone to tell their story to. > So, what we seem to be asking here is if Linda made money from > Budd's book, and if so how much. Am I right? Its a consideration. > My guess on this would be that if she did have an agreement with > Budd to share the proceeds from the book, then neither of them > would have gotten very much. Think about it this way. In the > case of most books, the author will make around a dollar per copy > in actual clear profits after paying the agent his/her fees. Now > if you sell a million copies, that ain't bad. But most books sell > in the thousands. So, say it takes a couple of years of real work > to write a book, and it ends up selling 20,000 copies. The author > has worked for less than minimum wage!!!! And if that has to be > split with someone else............ Need I say more? I understand your point regarding the small percentage on royalties. But didnt you just say that paying any amount is, "...bad journalism and a violation of basic jounalistic ethics." Doesn't that apply to Linda and Budd? > Bob BB
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 11 Phantom Airship From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:19:52 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:29:15 -0400 Subject: Phantom Airship >From the Sandusky Daily Register Sandusky, OHIO Thurs. Oct. 1, 1931 SHIP SEEN HERE BUT NOT AKRON -------------------- Many Sanduskians Watched Hazy Form Over Lake. The dim hazy form of a dirigible or blimp sailing over Marble peninsula in a northwesterly direction was seen by many Sandusky residents late Wednesday afternoon and many thought it was the dirigible "Akron" but news dispatches to The Register said the "Akron" did not take to the air Wednesday. The cigar shaped ship was seen for nearly half an hour as it slowly made its way from the lake over the neck of land and faded slowly at last into the gray of the gathering dusk. Some here ventured the suggestion that it might have been one of the small blimps of the Goodyear company instead of a dirigible, but it was too far in the distance to distinguish. Press dispatches said Wednesday that the fifth flight of the "Akron" will not start before Thursday. The announcement added that indications are that the weather may be unfavorable, causing further postponement. On the next flight the Navy plans to test the airship's dynamic lift. The ship has been in the air more than 20 of the 75 hours required for its acceptance by the Government from the builders. (Credit: John Hudson) Jan Aldrich Project 1947 ------------------- Index: Phantom Airships
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 11 Behind American Computer Co. - Addendum 5 From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:42:27 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:32:35 -0400 Subject: Behind American Computer Co. - Addendum 5 the relevant folks over at American Computer Co. are the following: Jack Shulman President and CEO John Schwartz VP of administration The "consultant" I was recently informed that the consultant is actively contracting for the DOD. Alright, well the DOD is a big organization. When I asked which division of the DOD the only answer I got was a segment that deals with defense communications. Art Bell stated on his radio show the other night with Linda Howe that they were going to try to get a voice scrambler and get the consultant to come on the show. When I asked ACC what their response was to this they said it probably won't happen. I have an unconfirmed report that Sam Sherman spoke to Shulman..supposedly Sherman is doing a documentary on an Edwards Air Force base incident of some kind. On a more impertinent note, one of the executives told me that they have been receiving a good deal of anti-semetic e-mail in their Roswell response form. Schwartz and Shulman are the only Jewish people in the company so the impression was that it was specifically focused at them. Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 11 Army FOIA Request From: UFOLAWYER1@aol.com [Peter Gersten] Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:12:58 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:35:21 -0400 Subject: Army FOIA Request Peter A. Gersten, Esq. Attorney at Law 7349 Via Paseo Del Sur #515-194 Scottsdale, Arizona 85258 (602) 818-8248 CERTIFIED MAIL/ RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED September 10, 1997 Department of Army Chief, Freedom of Information & Privacy Acts Office SAIS-IA-R/FP 1725 Jefferson Davis Highway Suite 201 Arlington, VA 22202-4102 Re: Freedom of Information Request To Whom It May Concern, On behalf of my client, Citizens Against UFO Secrecy (CAUS), I hereby submit this request under the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA),= 5 U.S.C. sec 552. It is requested that a copy be furnished of any and all records, to wit: memorandum, notes, reports, documents, letters and/or any other equivalent recordation including sketches, photographs and film, pertaining to the= below referenced subjects and supported as existing by statements by Lt. Col. (Ret.) Philip J. Corso in his recently released book, "The Day After Roswell." (Pocket Books) Lt. Colonel Corso refers to records relating to the crash of an extraterrestrial vehicle in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947 and the recovery, by the US Army Air Forces, of its occupants. The occupants are hereinafter referred to as Extraterrestrial Biological Entities (EBEs.) Corso states that the records were kept in a file room in the Pentagon basement until General Trudeau, his superior officer, moved the file cabinet, containing= the Roswell records and Roswell debris, to Corso's office when he headed the "Foreign Technology desk" within the Army's Office of the Chief of Research and Development (OCRD), U.S. Army, Washington, D.C. Corso's military personnel file shows that he was a staff officer in the Plans Division,= OCRD, from 5 May 1961 to 20 Jul 1961, when he became a staff officer in the= Foreign Technology Division, OCRD. On 18 April 1962, Corso became the Chief, Foreign Technology Division, OCRD until 18 July 1962, when he again became a staff officer in the Plans Division, OCRD. (Corso retired on 1 March 1963.) The following are specific references from 'Day After Roswell': ROSWELL FILE: P. 36-38; 40-41: Lt. Colonel Corso makes numerous references to 'a Roswell file.' Corso describes his duty assignment with General Trudeau. Trudeau wanted him for a special assignment, and had a file cabinet moved to Corso's office. The file contained various reports relating to the Roswell= incident, along with some of the debris recovered from the crash site. P. 50-51: Corso inherited the "Roswell file" in early 1961, shortly after JFK took office and the file cabinet contained "field reports, scientific analyses, medical autopsies, and technological debris from the Roswell= crash" P. 52: Corso states there were "head-on Roswell craft sketches" in the file cabinet. P. 213: Lt. Colonel Corso again refers to "Roswell field reports." P. 223: Another reference to "Roswell field reports." P. 232: Still another reference to "army field reports and Air Materiel Command engineering evaluations analyzing the Roswell craft". EXTRATERRESTRIAL BIOLOGICAL ENTITIES (EBEs): P. 32-33, Lt. Colonel Corso, then a Major in the Army and stationed at Ft. Riley, Kansas, states that on July 6, 1947 he personally observed in the veterinary building the following: 'It was a four-foot human-shaped figure with arms, bizarre-looking four-fingered hands----I didn't see a thumb---thin legs and feet, and an oversized incandescent lightbulb-shaped head that looked like it was= floating over a balloon gondola for a chin.' '=85I couldn't see any pupils or iris or anything that resembled a human eye. But the eyesockets themselves were oversized and almond shaped and pointed down to its tiny nose, which didn't really protrude from the skull.' 'The creature's skull was overgrown to the point where all of its facial features----such as they were----were arranged absolutely frontally, occupying only a small circle on the lower part of the head. The protruding ears of a human were nonexistent, its cheeks had no definition, and there were no eyebrows or any indications of facial hair.= The creature had only a tiny flat slit for a mouth and it was completely closed, resembling more of a crease or indentation between the nose and the bottom= of the chinless skull than a fully functioning orifice.' AUTOPSY REPORTS OF EBEs: P. 45, Lt. Colonel Corso refers to reports that he personally read, indicating that the pathologists at Walter Reed hospital autopsied one of= the above-described creatures. P. 91: Lt. Colonel Corso refers to "medical examiner's reports of the alien from Walter Reed and . . . the 1947 photographs and sketches" he states he personally saw. P. 92: Another reference to medical report and supporting photos. P. 191-192: Another reference to "a medical report about the creatures" in his "Roswell file". "It was a report on the possible function and apparent structures of the alien brain, a report that marveled at the similarities between the EBE brain and the human brain." P. 195: Lt. Colonel Corso refers to "the reports about the autopsied alien brain=85" ANY AND ALL COMMUNICATION BETWEEN LT. COLONEL CORSO AND GENERAL TRUDEAU: P. 174: Lt. Colonel Corso states he wrote "advisory reports" for Gen. Trudeau regarding each piece of Roswell debris. P. 180: Corso says, "I had to write a report to General Trudeau suggesting ways the EBEs might have used laser technology in their mission on this planet and how we could develop similar uses for it under the guise of a conventional development program." The FOIA requires agencies to furnish the first two hours of search time without charge to the requester. If you believe that search time in excess= of two hours will be required to satisfy this request, please furnish me with= an estimate of the search time you believe will be needed, and an estimate of the search fees, The FOIA also requires agencies to furnish the first 100 pages of reproductions without charge to the requester. My client hereby agrees to pay for all reproductions in excess of the first 100 pages and/or for any audiotapes required for reproduction purposes, up to a total of $50.00. If you anticipate the reproduction fees in excess of $50.00 will be necessary, please advise me accordingly. Lastly, The FOIA requires that an agency, 'upon any request for records made under paragraph (1), (2), or (3) of this subsection, shall - (i) determine within ten days (excepting Saturdays, Sundays and legal public holidays) after the receipt of any such request whether to comply with such request= and shall immediately notify the person making such request of such= determination and the reasons therefor=85.' Very truly yours, Peter A. Gersten
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: American Computer Company continued From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:32:24 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:46:03 -0400 Subject: Re: American Computer Company continued Hi all, Well it must have cost me about ten dollars but I interviewed Jack Schulman, president of American Computer. The moment the telephone operator of ACC heard who I was they put me through to him and he said he had heard of me. He talked so fast that I could hardly keep up but here is what it comes down to. Schulman told me the following: American Computer produces pc's, servers and notebooks. It is privately owned so it does not issue a public financial report. It has a total of 200-220 employees. Schulman about the Roswell story on their web site: 'The posting on our web site is inconsistent with our business practice. Frankly I did not realise that so many people would notice it. In fact to post such a story is an insane thing to do for a small computer company. My initial reaction to the idea was that this kind of publicity is bad. Why would I publish anything about UFOs? But the story that came from our consultant struck a personal chord with us. The message was posted in the beginning of August. We [ Schulman and his consultant who did the research ] have not read Corso's book and we will not do so before October. We want to process the information coming in with as much integrity as we can. You know how the mind works. We want to find out the truth even more than you do. I want to be a mediator of the concepts that are debunked. The matter is important. So far I am surprised by the lack of response from the Bell System. [ Note: Schulman wants to make it clear that he does not say that AT & T is covering up the history of the transistor. Bell Laboratories was part of ATT in 1947 and is now part of Lucent Technologies. To the entity that would perhaps be covering up the transistor he refers to as the "Bell System". This means AT & T as it existed in 1947 before the break up of AT & T ] That is strange because I know these people quite well and they know me. The only thing I heard was that a few pages on the site of Lucent Technologies [ Lucent was spun off from ATT a few years ago ] with references to a project called "Starpoint" were put out. I don't know whether this is relevant though. My position in this whole thing is one of neutrality. My intention is to find out the facts. Q. What was exactly the innovation that could have come out of alien technology since Bell Labs seemed to be doing research into semiconductors prior to 1947? A: The germanium diode had existed for several years. [ A transistor is essentially made of three diodes working together ] Its ability to rectify current was well understood [ to make direct current (dc) from alternating current (ac) ]. There had been 2 applications based on the natural propensity of germanium. This was the situation for years. All this time nobody ever suggested that germanium diodes could be used in some way as an amplifier or used in oscillatory devices. [ the transistor is an amplifier ] Then you have this inexplicable arrival of transistors with only vague references to earlier research. I've looked in the books, been to the labs, read the research papers. I also knew the people that were involved in the transistor. There would have to be more previous research. I would have expected to see 5-15 yrs of research. A physicist would be testing for years day and night for this technology to develop. And how silicon and a gas like boron suddenly got into the picture is a mystery to me. All that on a budget of 2 mln. [ silicon is one of the materials of which transistors can be made. It is now used for most computer chips. I don't know the function of boron in creating transistors ] Furthermore, there were more organisations that were more advanced in this kind of research, like Sylvania [ spelling ? ] and Sarnoff. None of them came up with it. I think the version of the Bell System is nothing more than a lovely marketing story. Q: How can we verify the "alien version" of the story specifically? A: I don't have the resources to do it. Bill Gates could. But he is a businessman and very happy with AT&T. [ He means Gates would have no motive. ] Like Bill Gates I am open to commercial manipulation. You can quote me on that. But for the sake of humanity I will not be intimidated by the flames that were put out to me on the Internet. Instead I hope that you all grab the ball and run with it. You must do the research. Q: Who have suffered from Bell's covering up this history of the transistor? A: The US government has suffered. The technology should have been made available for defense purposes to defend our democracy. Frankly I think the government has gotten a bad rap from the UFO community for supposedly covering things up. The government is a transitory entity. People go in and out. As far as cover-ups are concerned the iceberg is melting on one side, growing on the other. I think the abundance of negativity in the UFO field has caused the cover up. But then we don't have the same government as we had back then. ATT has also changed dramatically. Q: Following this up, ATT or Lucent could have patents that perhaps are attributed to the alien technology. What patents specifically are we talking about since the transistor involves many patents? A: I don't know that. There are probably some aged people who could answer that. I hope they come forward. Q: Where did your consultant get his information? A: He got the story from working on projects before the break up of the Bell System. [ ATT was broken up in 1982 into ATT and seven Baby Bells or Regional Bell Operating Companies (RBOCs, like Nynex). Bell Labs remained part of AT & T, but became part of Lucent which was spun off from AT & T a few years ago]. This consultant worked directly with John Morton [ former VP of Bell Labs. Schulman also knew Morton. Morton was killed under mysterious circumstances. This was what struck the personal chord within Schulman when his consultant came with the "alien origin" scenario of the transistor ] and the inventors of the transistor [ Shockley, Bardeen, Brattain]. Charles Brown was then chairman of AT & T. But he did not get it from them. First of all he observed that "there were too many secrets" within Bell Labs. Aspects of projects always have to remain confidential, we know that. But here there were too many secrets. There was too much confidentiality that was agreed upon in written form under advice from Bell's lawyers. He became disappointed with the situation to the point of disgust. The story about the alien origin of technology that led to the transistor came directly from the principals of certain projects in more than rumor form. These people have now left ATT. Q: Why are you so sure that other companies knew about the alien origin of the technology like IBM, Fairchild and Intel? Are you aware of people who have been involved in the peddling of the technology to these companies? Is there a paper trail? A: My consultant is the source from this. If you want my opinion I can't imagine anything this earthshaking just remaining in ATT. Q: What new information has reached you through the form you posted on your web site? A: A lot has come in, mostly opinions about Roswell a.s.o. But the most interesting story was this: it was from a person in Berkeley Heights. His father was a phycisist at AT & T Micro Electronics. [ Transistors are part of the field of micro electronics. ] He claims that he went with his father to a location in New Jersey, perhaps upstate New York, when he was 6 years old in the mid fifties. What he saw there was an intact UFO. That is what his father told him. AT & T had a facility there. We wrote him back but haven't received an answer so far. Q: In an earlier interview with Bob Wolfe you mentioned Sky Station. What is that? A: I mentioned this just to see the reactions I would get. Q: Can you say what it is? A: No, I cannot go into this. I won't answer anymore questions about this. [ Schulman explained earlier that he is a fan of space flight, This would explain his interest in more info on this. ] Schulman explains he is the chairman of the American Computer Scientists Association. Someone in this group thought of a way to track down the Unabomber by posting his photograph on a lot of web sites along with some information. Schulman: 'This eventually led to his arrest. It took 9 months before the postings on the web sites had an effect. This one will take much longer. This story will take longer to settle in human consciousness.' +++ This was it. I am still curious about the official history of the transistor. James, Steven? ____________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm e-mail: hvdp@worldonline.nl web: http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp Leiden, The Netherlands \__________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: Writers & Fees From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 18:44:26 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 01:39:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Writers & Fees Hey, as long as I'm defending Budd on money issues, I'll defend Phil Klass, too. I don't agree with Phil about much (except that we both appreciate a good laugh), but facts are facts. > Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 03:39:35 -0700 > From: Ted Viens <drtedv@smart1.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > Phil must have very foolishly failed to receive royalty on the vast > number of his books that Prometheus contributed to libraries around > the country. His failure to capitalize on his writings must mostly > be his own fault... > Bye... Ted.. Nah. UFO books just don't make money, plain and simple. (Exceptions: Whitley Strieber's "Communion," because Strieber was already a best-selling author, and John Mack's abduction book, because of its spectacular premise: "Harvard psychiatrist says aliens are abducting people!" PLus, let's not forget, Mack had earlier won the Pulitzer Prize.) Phil, I'm sure, got an advance for his books, probably meager. Like most writers, I bet he never earned another penny past his advance. That's because you don't earn royalties until the earnings from the book have paid the publisher back your advance, something that, in most cases, never happens. Why Prometheus should pay Phil royalties for books they donate to libraries is beyond me. They don't make anything. And if they're willing to donate the books, would it be in Phil's interest to say "No, don't do it?" I'm sure he'd rather that his name got around, as well as his point of view, which he's passionately sincere about, however wrong-headed I think he might be. He might also think that every time someone reads his book in a library, that's a possible future buyer for his next book. So my guess is he'd treat those donations -- did they really occur, by the way? -- as an investment. Makes sense to me. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 11 Betty Hill, False Memories and Zeta From: mdavis@ccsmtp.glycomed.COM (Davis, Michael) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 97 15:26:38 pst Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 01:30:17 -0400 Subject: Betty Hill, False Memories and Zeta Excerpted from 'The Eyes that Spoke' by Martin Kottmeyer The Skeptical Inquirer, Sept. 1994. Full article available at: http://www.csicop.org/sb/9409/eyesthat.html --- What could not have been foreseen was how serendipity would step in to break this minor mystery. The local PBS station a few years ago decided to rerun the old TV series "The Outer Limits." It was during the showing of the "Bellero Shield" episode that I felt the uncanny frisson of deja vu. The eyes of the alien were unusually long and wrapped around the side of the face. It quickly hit me that these eyes were just like the wraparound eyes that were drawn in The Interrupted Journey and the later, more-detailed drawing the Hills did in collaboration with the artist David Baker. Though I couldn't articulate it at that instant, there were other similarities that contributed to the sense of a close relationship: no ears, no hair, no nose, and a cranium shaped like a bullet tilted backwards 45x. I reread The Interrupted Journey. To my delight I discovered there was no mention of wraparound eyes in the earliest account. Betty's dreams, written down a matter of days after the UFO sighting, mention men with Jimmy Durante noses, dark or black hair and eyes, and a relaxed human appearance that she said was "not frightening." This is all quite different from the final product. The changes emerge in the hypnotic regression with the Hills's psychiatrist, Dr. Simon. The most salient issue was when the wraparound eyes were first described. That turned out to be during a hypnosis session involving Barney Hill dated February 22, 1964. Not only did "The Bellero Shield" precede Barney's first mention of wraparound eyes, it did by only 12 days! --- Jacque Vallee wrote an article regarding the Hill case for the Skeptical Inquirer. I have it in a book called 'The Hundredth Monkey'. Vallee also cites the amazing coincidences between the Outer Limits episode and the descriptions of Betty and Barney Hill. How could both Betty and Barney describe the same events, the same aliens? They both watched the same TV show 12 days before the hypnotherapy session. On another note, found an article on the internet by a fellow who matched Betty's star map to the positions of the planets in our solar system. The positions of the planets are calculated for a date within one week of the Hill's experience and (according to the researcher) are a better match for the star map than Mrs. Fish's map. He suggests that the map shows the planets of our solar system, not distant stars, the two large spheres in the foreground of the Hill map represent Jupiter and Saturn. I'll attempt to find the link/article if anyone is interested. Thanks, M. Davis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 11 FUFOR: Washington, D. C., 1952 Documents From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:06:51 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 01:36:30 -0400 Subject: FUFOR: Washington, D. C., 1952 Documents "Spaceships or Mirages over Washington National Airport, 1952?" The Fund for UFO Research's (FUFOR) latest offering gives Ufologists access to two important historical documents about the events over Washington, D. C. during the 1952 UFO wave. "Minutes of the Press Conference Held by Major General John A. Samford, Director of US Air Force Intelligence 27 July 1952" has generally not been available. Along with MG Samford, the USAF Director of Intelligence, participating in the press conference were Major General Roger M. Ramey, Director of Operations, USAF, COL Donald L. Bower, Technical Analysis Div., ATIC, CPT Roy L. James, Electronic Branch, ATIC, CPT Edward J. Ruppelt, Aerial Phenomena Branch, ATIC, and Mr. Burgoyne L. Griffing, Electronics Branch, ATIC. Statements by Stamford and the others shows that they did not have the complete story at their fingertips. The questions from the press were pointed and inquiring. Stamford uttered his famous line about "creditable people reporting incredible things." Attendence at this press conference was the highest since World War II. During the rather long press conference, MG Samford, in many answers, made carefully qualified remarks. His comments distilled down by the press in large headlines reported the conference as a debunking session. While there is not question that the Air Force wanted to regain control of the situation, the conference was not the complete debunking session that was later reported. CPT Ruppelt, in his private papers, would later record Samford's disappointment with the press and especially Keyhoe. Ruppelt speculated that the latter was the cause of later withholding of UFO information. It will be obvious from the text that Samford, Ramey, and the others were not well prepared to handle specific questions about the Washington, D. C. sightings. It is my impression that the temperature inversion explanation was just being floated as a trail balloon to give the Air Force a respite from constant press inquiries. Later, the explanation would be carved in stone. The second paper prepared by the USAF Environmental Technical Application Center (ETAC) in April 1969 examined the inversion explanation in detail. UFO proponents will be shocked at the paper's conclusion. "Report #6112, Qulantitative Aspects of Mirages" by 1LT Frederick V. Menkello consulted a long list of publications on optics and UFOs. The Foreign Technology Division at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio, requested this report from ETAC. ETAC placed the following disclaimer on the report which almost invited further studies: "This report addresses a specific problem and is not intended to have application beyond that problem. We recommend that any questions on this or related problems be referred to USAF ETAC for further study." Unfortunately this recommendation was not followed. ETAC's conclusion included: "[Dr. James E.] McDonald was right...." "Spaceships or Mirages?" is available from the Fund for UFO Research, P. O. Box 277, Mount Rainier, MD 20712 for $15 plus $2.50 for postage and handling. ------------------- Index: UFOs Over Washington Index: FUFOR Index: Official Government Investigations of UFOs
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: MUFON Journal Muses From: Theresa <110213.3274@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:57:20 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 01:41:58 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON Journal Muses >Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:05:34 -0500 (CDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: MUFON Journal Muses >you'll note that I mention in the first paragraph, "in the interest of >full disclosure," that I am one of the book's co-editors. That's what made it cute! Someone mentioned to me that most that review their own work use a pseudonym to do it. But that didn't work very well for one Pamela, as I recall. >You call $27.95 plus $3.00 s/h cheap? Checks or money order to: True. But with so many contributors to the book, who's left to purchase it? ;-) >Anyone who doesn't like my reviews is free to write their own >counterview. I'll be happy to run it. Well, I was thinking in this case to it wouldn't necessarily be a counterview. You've already written one though, so it wouldn't be needed. But as long as you've touched on that, would you tell us, for the record, how and who to send submissions for the Journal to. What form is best, etc. Are submissions from non-members also considered? And any other information along that line that you think mightbe useful. Thanks! I know that the Journal may be going through some changes, but the basics will probably be the same. >SA Sasquatch & Literary Prostitute >Esquire LOL No no. The book is the prostitute. You'd have to be Literary Pimp. Regards, Theresa
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: Philip Going To Regina, Saskatchewan From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:36:14 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 01:42:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Philip Going To Regina, Saskatchewan > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 04:44:58 +0000 > From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO LECTURE IN REGINA > I wonder if you could be of some assistance. In December of this year my > wife and family will be visiting my sister-in-law in Regina, > Saskatchewan. While I am there I wondered if there was a UFO group in the > area who might like a lecture from a visiting British UFO researcher. I > will be in Regina from the 18-30 of December. > If you know of any organisation that might like an illustrated lecture > during my trip to Canada you might ask them to contact me at: Not necessarily in Regina, Philip, but perhaps not too far afield. There are quite a few of us here in Winnipeg, although this would be an eight-hour drive. A bit closer is the SEEKERS group, which is in Brandon, only (I think) about four or five hours' distant. The only active ufologist/cerealogists in SK of which I am aware are Daniel Clairmont of MUFON (actually in Regina, I think) and Laurie Vassos in Saskatoon. Former CAPRO memebers Dean Clausen and ??? Coulthard are in SK somewhere still, I believe. Since SEEKERS is looking to organize a public meeting soon, my suggestion would be to have a meeting/lecture in Brandon, hosted by SEEKERS. That way, interested Winnipeggers would likely travel that far, even in the harsh winter. SEEKERS also has excellent rapport with the media, so you might even get a TV segment filmed that way. I hope this is useful! -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 11 Moon Mapping Mission Delayed From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 23:04:58 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 01:48:56 -0400 Subject: Moon Mapping Mission Delayed --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Moon Mapping Mission Delayed Date: 97-09-10 22:06:05 EDT From: AOL News .c The Associated Press LOS ANGELES (AP) - The Lunar Prospector mission to the moon has been pushed back two months to Nov. 23, NASA said Wednesday. Launch was originally set for Sept. 24. The delay was necessary to complete testing and preparation of the new Lockheed Martin LMLV2 launch vehicle, according to a statement from NASA's Ames Research Center in Mountain View, Calif. Lunar Prospector, a 660-pound spacecraft, is designed to orbit the moon at an altitude of 63 miles for a one-year, $62.8 million mapping mission. A key objective of the Ames-managed mission is to find direct evidence of the presence or absence of ice in shaded regions of the lunar poles. AP-NY-09-10-97 2200EDT Copyright 1997 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:40:20 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 01:51:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention >Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:04:57 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention >If "alien" technology was obtained by the military (or whomever) in 1947, >that technology would have to be recognizable (to some degree) to whomever >was trying to utilize it, if it was to have an impact on our techological >developement of the transistor by 1948-49 as some have alleged. A >completely alien technology would not likely have had an impact otherwise, >until our technology level was advanced enough to understand its workings. >As you point out, when the transistor was first developed in the 40's, it >was bulky and expensive. But by 1955-56 we had advanced to microelectronic >technology, which indicates that advances were made that seem to correspond >to the alleged dates of several "crashes". Aren't we drifting off course here? Corso's claim is about integrated circuitry, if I remember aright, not the transistor itself. He doesn't even arrive on the scene until 1961. And although he claims to have managed his many miracles within the next two years, his record shows that his Pentagon assignment at that period lasted a mere 90 days or so. Hard as it may be to believe or accept, folks, the Corso book is a complete hoax from the word go. It is a fraud intended to make money and nothing else. To give it anything other than the time of day is to waste your valuable time. You might as well claim that an 1899 saucer crash was responsible for Einstein's General and Special Theory of Relativity--which ultimately resulted in the laser and the atom bomb. To accept Corso at face value is to demean yourself, in the same way that he demeans his own military colleagues, all those who died in the allegedly misdirected Cold War, and those terrestrial scientists ultimately deserving of their due respect and accolades for having contributed to human understanding. Corso should be ashamed of himself, as should be his co-author William Birnes. And that goes double for any of you who believe it for a minute. At least Corso and company have an excuse -- money. The rest of you have no excuse at all, save for some bewildering and overwhelming desire to believe each and absolutely every story that comes down the UFO turnpike. Thus you get the ufology you deserve, from Roger Leir, Derrel Sims, Philip Corso, John Lear and Robert Morning Sky, to Robert Lazar, Art Bell, Michael Hessemann, and Bob Dean. A pox on the lot of you for taking such silliness seriously. Sincerely, SA Sasquatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:40:17 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 01:53:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous >Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 06:42:25 -0700 >From: Loy Pressley <lpressle@webwide.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous >Coud it be that we, as a race of beings, are a little bit prejudiced >because our kind of life evolved under the conditions prevalent on >planet Earth? We could be just a little smidgen biased towards looking >for life in conditions similar to our own. The fact that we are here >would seem to tend to make us favor conditions elsewhere similar to our >own. >Maybe because we evolved here we think that earthlike conditions are the >only conditions able to support life. Who knows...it might not even be >possible to detect, much less communicate with 'life', that evolved >under conditions unlike our own. Maybe we need to change our definition >of what 'life' is. Is a virus alive? I think that one is still being >argued. >I guess what I'm saying is that I sure don't know what possible life >forms may be out there and I don't think anyone else (here on Earth, >anyway) knows either. And, in my opinion, it is way too early in our >exploration to bias ourselves to pondering only life like our own just >because that happens to be the only life we currently know. Those seriously interested in the evolution of life on this planet and in this solar system, and by extension, other solar systems, should immediately rush out and buy a copy of The Anomalist 5 and devour an article by Mike Davis entitled "Cosmic Dancers on History's Stage? The Permanent Revolution in the Earth Sciences." I say that not only because I'm the Literary Whore of San Antonio (Remember the Alamo!), which I yam, but to emphasize the fact that if we hadn't run across this gem of a masterpiece and reprinted it in this country, you would never have been aware of it. But diligence doesn't come free. However, I'll wave postage and handling fees for anyone ordering from this list and citing same. Make out your check or money order to Dennis Stacy, Box 12434, San Antonio, Texas, 78212, for $9.95 and I'll whip one out. I'll do even better than that. If you aren't completely satisfied, return your copy of The Anomalist and I'll refund your money, no questions asked. Dennis "Stanton Friedman" Stacy aka SA Sasquatch & Literary Prostitute Esquire
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 11 UFOR: 'Research Paper' - Response From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 03:17:24 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:39:27 -0400 Subject: UFOR: 'Research Paper' - Response ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 05:21:59 -0400 (EDT) From: RKLeir1st@aol.com To: d005734c@dc.seflin.org Cc: derrel@holman.net Subject: Re: UFOR: Research Paper (fwd) Shannon, my name is Dr. Roger Leir. My partner, Derrel Sims and myself have formed an organization called F.I.R.S.T., which stands for The Fund For Interactive Research in Space Technology. Our organization was set up to scientifically study the abduction phenomena through the use of hard scientific investigation. So far seven surgeries have been performed to excise objects alleged to be alien implants. The results so far have been astounding. If you wish to learn more please look on the net at the following addresses: FIRSTevidence.org and www.anw.com/first Let me know if we can help you with your paper. Dr. Leir
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: Writers & Fees From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:19:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:54:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Writers & Fees >From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] >Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:58:50 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Writers & Fees >I understand your point regarding the small percentage on royalties. But >didnt you just say that paying any amount is, "...bad journalism and a >violation of basic jounalistic ethics." Doesn't that apply to Linda and >Budd? Who said Budd was a journalist?????? <VBEG> Seriously, though, I don't know the circumstances. I have seen it said here that this was an after-the-fact thing, and Budd just felt bad that Linda wasn't getting anything, and offered her something. If that's how it came down, I don't have a problem with that. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: Writers & Fees From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:19:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:55:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Writers & Fees >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Writers & Fees >Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 18:44:26 -0400 >Phil, I'm sure, got an advance for his books, probably meager. Like >most writers, I bet he never earned another penny past his advance. >That's because you don't earn royalties until the earnings from the >book have paid the publisher back your advance, something that, in >most cases, never happens. >Why Prometheus should pay Phil royalties for books they donate to >libraries is beyond me. They don't make anything. And if they're >willing to donate the books, would it be in Phil's interest to say >"No, don't do it?" I'm sure he'd rather that his name got around, as >well as his point of view, which he's passionately sincere about, >however wrong-headed I think he might be. He might also think that >every time someone reads his book in a library, that's a possible >future buyer for his next book. So my guess is he'd treat those >donations -- did they really occur, by the way? -- as an investment. >Makes sense to me. Greg, Glad to know someone else lives in the real world. I forgot in my earlier posts to mention about the advance, but I agree that in most cases books don't earn past the advance. I guess that I'm unusual in this respect, since all of mine have earned past the advance, and continue to sell (except the ones the publishers foolishly let go out of print!!!!!). But these are not UFO books. I hear that Strieber claims to be dead broke these days, and considering the apparently limp sales of his books after Communion, it could well be true. Maybe he will return to horror fiction where he can make some money. On your other point, I think most publishers donate a certain quantity of books to libraries, charities, etc. Mine have always done that. But I've never gotten, nor expected, any royalties on books which are given away, and there is a clause in the standard contract exempting such books from royalties. I can't imagine Prometheus giving Phil royalties on books given away. The point that needs to be made over and over is simple: Publishers get rich, writers don't. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: Phil Corso stole my book! From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@yorku.ca> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:31:33 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:56:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Phil Corso stole my book! > From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson] > Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 19:58:42 -0400 (EDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Phil Corso stole my book! > List members, > There has been much speculation lately about Philip Corso's book and his > alledged story of alien intervention, intentional or not, in such things as > our technology. --- snip --- > I have not read Mr. Corso's book, but I have not heard that he mentioned --- snip --- Drew, you should first read his book, especially Chapter 12 which details Corso's personal involvement in the continuing back engineering of alien technology such as the I.C. No wonder we were so easily able to pass on a computer virus into the orbiting alien mothership computer in the movie ID4 - Earth computers were also derived from alien technology too! Corso's book does contain a lot of filler material such as Project Horizon which did not convince me had any connections to defending against UFOs and there are a few errors (eg. Project Horizon proposed a first lunar landing in 1965 (p. 153) and in 1967 (p. 157); Dr. Wilbert B. Smith was not a doctor, etc.). Much of the rest of Corso's book could have just as easily written by any ufologist from known facts and rumours but it is his personal knowledge and dealings which, if true, may force us to rewrite the history of science and finally accept that UFOs are extraterrestrial in orgin. Although all of the scientists and technicians here at York University immediately scoffed at what Corso had to say in his book, they were curious enough to read what he had to say and my copy of Corso's book is still in circulation here. Many of my colleagues who have read the book now want me to provide them with follow-up information and thanks to UFO UpDates, I can do so with a lot of supportive evidence to what Corso claims. Nick Balaskas
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:19:19 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:57:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention >Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:40:20 -0500 (CDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention > You might as well claim that an 1899 saucer crash was >responsible for Einstein's General and Special Theory of Relativity--which >ultimately resulted in the laser and the atom bomb. Gosh darn it Dennis, we told you to keep that confidential!!!! Now every half baked ufologist will be swarming over the site! >The rest of you have no excuse at all, save for some bewildering and >overwhelming desire to believe each and absolutely every story that comes >down the UFO turnpike. Thus you get the ufology you deserve, from Roger >Leir, Derrel Sims, Philip Corso, John Lear and Robert Morning Sky, to Robert >Lazar, Art Bell, Michael Hessemann, and Bob Dean. A pox on the lot of you >for taking such silliness seriously. I feel slighted. I didn't make your "silliness" list. What, not silly enough??? Guess I need to work harder. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: Writers & Fees From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:58:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:01:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Writers & Fees The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments to the List. For the record: I last saw Richard in Detroit in sixty-eight... and I last saw Phil Klass in London in April at the FT UnConvention. We were sitting around gassing in the green room, with Rebecca Keith among others (so she can probably confirm this). Phil remarked that he had calculated that over the years he has made about 6 cents an hour on UFO books, conference appearances and his newsletter after expenses. Since he's been slagging off ufology for about 30 years now I guess we can safely say he concluded a long time ago that he wan't going to be in this business for the money. Yours &c Postbox D. Mailvan Chicken Counter
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #180 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:57:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:03:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #180 Apology to MW #180 (For September 11, 1997) Off come the gloves -- you flat make me sick. Your cognitive dissonance as thick as a brick. You group and you preen, and you're lost to the finery. You are blind in the mythos -- embroidered in irony. Millions on compost you're heedlessly spending A built to suit fantasy with its profits contending. You dusted off a rock song to get it done in time=85[retch] You purchased all the trivia, and the telly's struck you blind. Two weeks it has built, and what had she done? An attractive errant, a front against guns? A woman of privilege who didn't quite blow it; Born to position she knew how to show it. She was groomed from the first for her majesty's thrust. Her father had dreams of intrusion on lust. He would mingle his seed with the Kings, and the Queens! He would have the prince Charles by the balls of his genes. Her youth was awash in the most classic of arts. She could wander alone in thousand year parks. She grew to autonomy with the creams of the finest. There are few wouldn't drink from the stuff on her wine list. She was white and reed thin, and had legs to her face. A doll to the dissatisfied, they would kill to take her place. She was the center of the universe for countless hapless motes Who squeezed too hard and killed her -- like Lenny on her throat. Those that are buying the tripe found in tabloids. Those that read "People," and "Us" for a joyride. Those that are buying the National Inquirer; Those passions contrived, and the heat they inspire. These are the people that killed your prized princess. These are the ones that are giving false witness. These are the ones all upset -- sending flowers; These are the ones throwing rocks from glass towers! Her grace in detachment, she had enough class. Perhaps our time's wan Jackie - O, surpassed? She stuck it back, somewhat; tried to turn her kids to fellers? She touched the sick, used her eyes. She knew the truth of Helen Keller! And I'm sorry regarding fishbowls, but the fish bowl _was_ so grand. The length and breadth was world wide; the lap of luxury, understand! What she spent on shoes would feed a family for a year! Was she just a kind distraction from a budget in arrears? Did she wonder aloud about people from space? What were her real thoughts on privilege and race? What was her thinking on circles in crops? What did she wonder regarding her thoughts? Her marriage to Islam a mythic grand gesture? The future king of England a Muslim -- what a treasure <g>. She mirrored so well what we wanted to see in us, So the future's foresworn to a chaos of culture pus? And what of her lover's father's possession To aspire inclusion -- British royal succession=85 He was shamed that the landed refused an exception To his honor, to his person, to his piqued prepossession. It's not about money, it's self disrespect. Who gives a rat's ass at societies neglect. Why grovel to vanishing royalty in lurch=85 Like Napoleon giving in to the old Catholic church. It's only a grasping at power\position. The best trophy wife at the end of the mission. The woman still nameless; cut short in her time. Who knows the result, she continued her rhyme! Lehmberg@snowhill.com Only the watchers knew who that woman was. I had not the foggiest notion what that woman was=85and neither did you -- only what we were told. Ironic that another cultural icon passed in almost the same breath, but will not get a fraction of the adulation=85we will fawn and lather at the pretty face (like a bunch of Americans). Did the old one ever dream what it would be like to be the young one? -- Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for speculating on a time when the last king had strangled the last priest with steaming entrails ripped from his own bloated belly. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" Personal HARASSMENT; however, the harassment index is infinite for each of us. Consider the pandering media, still a shill for the meter man.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:27:21 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:05:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention >Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:40:20 -0500 (CDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention >>Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:04:57 -0400 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >>Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention >>If "alien" technology was obtained by the military (or whomever) in 1947, >>that technology would have to be recognizable (to some degree) to whomever >>was trying to utilize it, if it was to have an impact on our techological >>developement of the transistor by 1948-49 as some have alleged. A >>completely alien technology would not likely have had an impact otherwise, >>until our technology level was advanced enough to understand its workings. >>As you point out, when the transistor was first developed in the 40's, it >>was bulky and expensive. But by 1955-56 we had advanced to microelectronic >>technology, which indicates that advances were made that seem to correspond >>to the alleged dates of several "crashes". >Aren't we drifting off course here? Corso's claim is about integrated >circuitry, if I remember aright, not the transistor itself. He doesn't even >arrive on the scene until 1961. And although he claims to have managed his >many miracles within the next two years, his record shows that his Pentagon >assignment at that period lasted a mere 90 days or so. Dennis, and all- I believe I had made that point several days ago, but the thread regarding transistors continues to be discussed. Yes, Corso referred to "integrated circuits", which fits the time frame of his (alleged) seeding of technology. The Corso book has caused others to allegedly come forward, which has apparently resulted in the American Computer WEB site controversy. That particular tangent speaks directly to transistors, and does not relate directly to Corso, or his book. >Hard as it may be to believe or accept, folks, the Corso book is a complete >hoax from the word go. It is a fraud intended to make money and nothing >else. To give it anything other than the time of day is to waste your >valuable time. You might as well claim that an 1899 saucer crash was >responsible for Einstein's General and Special Theory of Relativity--which >ultimately resulted in the laser and the atom bomb. >To accept Corso at face value is to demean yourself, in the same way that he >demeans his own military colleagues, all those who died in the allegedly >misdirected Cold War, and those terrestrial scientists ultimately deserving >of their due respect and accolades for having contributed to human >understanding. Corso should be ashamed of himself, as should be his >co-author William Birnes. And that goes double for any of you who believe it >for a minute. At least Corso and company have an excuse -- money. >The rest of you have no excuse at all, save for some bewildering and >overwhelming desire to believe each and absolutely every story that comes >down the UFO turnpike. Thus you get the ufology you deserve, from Roger >Leir, Derrel Sims, Philip Corso, John Lear and Robert Morning Sky, to Robert >Lazar, Art Bell, Michael Hessemann, and Bob Dean. A pox on the lot of you >for taking such silliness seriously. Those of us on the list were aware of your feelings regarding the Corso book, and its good to see that you're true to your convictions. I would suppose that some of us continue to discuss the book because we just aren't sure, but you believe that we should simply reject it out of hand as a hoax. If we are to under the assumption that every theory or statement is "false" or a "hoax", unless it can be proven true, then perhaps your criticism has some justification. If anyone has accepted the Corso book at face value, I haven't seen much evidence of that here. At least two other researchers have come up with other (anonymous) sources that have either confirmed part of his story or knew of such "seeding" but didn't know Corso. Of course, we have enough annecdotal and anonymous testimony in this field to fill up several encyclopedias, but then again you haven't offered to much more than that in your rejection of his claims. I agree that we can't take Corso's claims at face value, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't look at this claims to see if any portion of them contain a "shread of truth". Some researchers have found reason to look further, while others, such as yourself, have determined that it probably isn't worth their time. I believve both positions are valid. But I have to ask how your view of Corso and the others named above impacts your editorial viewpoint at the MUFON Journal? You've indicated that there isn't enough time, and their aren't enough submissions, to allow for a full juried review of the articles that are forwarded to the Journal for consideration. However, one of the functions of an "Editor" would seem to be to determine what should be included, or excluded, in the publication. If you believe those listed are all spouting nonsense (which is certainly a valid point of view), how does that impacts your consideration of articles submitted by them, or about their theories or viewpoints. Rebecca has also indicated in one of her responses that there are changes under consideration by the MUFON Journal, and I'm sure there are many on this list that would like to know what types of changes are under consideration. Steve (it's all true, we're just living in a shared portion of our different realities) Kaeser
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: MUFON Journal Muses From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:49:04 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:06:16 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON Journal Muses >Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:57:20 -0400 >From: Theresa <110213.3274@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: MUFON Journal Muses >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >But as long as you've touched on that, would you tell us, for >the record, how and who to send submissions for the Journal >to. What form is best, etc. Are submissions from non-members >also considered? And any other information along that line that you >think mightbe useful. Thanks! >Regards, > Theresa Anybody can contribute. And I can handle just about any format imaginable, Mac, PC disk, email, manuscript, fax, etc., although fax is the least reliable and desirable. Hard copy can be mailed to: Dennis Stacy Box 12434 San Antonio Texas 78212 Make any hard copy only submissions as neat and clean as possible, so they can be scanned. Dennis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:05:43 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:07:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:27:33 -0700 > > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 02:11:46 +0100 > > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 > > I offered the idea in the first place to refute the actual "airship" > > idea as the proper identification for what were probably UFOs of a more > > conventional type but coached in the terms of the day. > Don, > Your idea is, of course particularly well taken for the > "searchlight cases" where an object hundreds or thousands > of feet in the air illuminated the ground below, and cases > where the object itself was fully luminous (since its light > source would have to be inside the envelope). Yes exactly and it gives us another tool in the process of elimination. If the report says brilliant lights on an airship sighting in 1896 to say 1910 you can be pretty sure that it wasn't an airship but more of your garden variety UFO, identified with the best available knowledge of that day....airships. Regards' Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:19:12 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:09:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:14:05 -0400 > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 02:11:46 +0100 > >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 > Don, > Don't forget hot air balloons, which of necessity have a very > hot and bright fire to make the hot air that lifts them. > Bob Hi Bob and list, In the early days of hot air ballooning they literally lit a fire under the contraption taking care not to burn it up. By the middle of the 19th century they were experimenting with gas bags and used them for mostly military applications, i.e. observation platforms, Am.Civ. War etc. Using flame heat generated from a gas jet under the balloon as is done today I don't think came back into vogue until the thirties or fourties. However I may be wrong about that. I've seen some present day ballons and small airships, in particular one in England, that are well lit for advertizing purposes and the latter made to look like a classic flying saucer. The time period I've targeted-1890 to 1915 is not an era where, I think, heat from flame was used to inflate the balloon. Anybody? Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 11 information on the new research team called NRO? From: brazel@webtv.net (Clint Stone) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:29:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:11:08 -0400 Subject: information on the new research team called NRO? Hello all, Does anyone have any information on the new research team called NRO? I recieved an e-mail from someone "inviting me" to join a new non-profit organization that promises salary to all members if the "club" grows. Is this to good to be true? Comments? Clint Stone ASD Ky/MUFON
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 11 New CUFON Special Report From: "Jim K" <jimklotz@foxinternet.net> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:36:18 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:12:03 -0400 Subject: New CUFON Special Report 9-September-1997 Hello all... We've just posted a new CUFON Special Report (No.3), the contents of which might have far-reaching implications for the UFO community. At the least, this article should stimulate thought and discussion about unverified UFO claims, hoaxes, and the motives of UFO community members. Please consider taking a look at: http://www.tcet.unt.edu/~chrisl/cufon/mask/projmask.htm This and the many other articles and files of verified UFO information may be found at the CUFON website (URL below) Why not take a look? * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Jim Klotz [CUFON SYSOP] I put a $dollar in the change machine.... jimklotz@foxinternet.net But nothing changed! http://www.tcet.unt.edu/~chrisl/cufon-pg.htm * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * p.s. While you are at it... please visit Chris Lambright's file WWW site "UFOS... a closer look" at: http://www.tcet.unt.edu/~chrisl/ufos.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 11 Cheap Shots From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 05:58:29 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:12:52 -0400 Subject: Cheap Shots From: Theresa <110213.3274@compuserve.com> [Theresa Carlson] Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 02:47:53 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:48:18 -0400 Subject: MUFON Journal Muses > Until you get to the end and you realize that the review is > written by one of the authors of the book, Dennis Stacy. Guess you missed this sentence in the first paragraph: "But in the interest of full disclosure, I should also point out that I co-edited the book in question, along with Hilary Evans of England." > It also makes the > book look a bit "cheap" and maybe even "prostituted". I guess all those authors that go on TV/Radio to promote their books are prostituting their books as well? > I don't know what to say about that, other than it looks 'cheap' to me. Everyone is entitled to an opinion -- even you. But this sounds more a personal beef with Stacy than anything else. I don't know what else to say -- but this looks like a cheap shot to me. Rebecca MUFON member, too.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson] Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:42:53 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:31:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> >Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 >Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:27:33 -0700 >> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 02:11:46 +0100 >> From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 >> I offered the idea in the first place to refute the actual "airship" >> idea as the proper identification for what were probably UFOs of a more >> conventional type but coached in the terms of the day. >Don, >Your idea is, of course particularly well taken for the >"searchlight cases" where an object hundreds or thousands >of feet in the air illuminated the ground below, and cases >where the object itself was fully luminous (since its light >source would have to be inside the envelope). >Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at Assuming that the reports weren't greatly exaggerated, which appears to be the case in many incidents. Many of the early "airship" sightings were of toy "fire-balloons". I guess I raised the question of witness reliability again, but as a police officer once said, "I'd rather have a corpse than 20 eye witnesses because I'll get more accurate information from the corpse!" Drew Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:21:31 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:30:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention Regarding... >From: "WHITE" <mjawhite@digitaldune.net> [John White] >Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention >Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 06:58:23 -0700 John wrote: >There is an "in-house" piece written by W. Schockley: "The Theory of >P-N Junctions in Semiconductors and P-N Junction Transistors" Bell >System Technical Journal 28:436 (1949), which predates "Electrons and >Holes" by about two years. John, Do you possibly have a copy of this? It's a "must-see" for sure. >Negative evidence usually isn't worth much, unless it rules out, in >toto, existence of positive evidence. This thread, for any number >of reasons, and not the least of which would be simple historical >value, bears deeper scrutiny. Yes, I think it's a worthwhile exercise, even if only from a historical context. >From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson] >Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 19:58:42 -0400 (EDT) >Subject: Phil Corso stole my book! Drew wrote: >For the record; >Dec. 16, 1947 Shockley, Bardeen and others announce the first >recognition of the transistor effect. Drew, Do you have a reference for this? It's one of the key facts to be established. >July 1, 1948 The New York Times announces the discovery in its "News >of Radio" section. Some years back whilst studying Computing at College, I wrote an essay on the history of computing - no doubt a dreadful one. Nonetheless, it began by referring to the press announcement of the transistor's invention, a brief few paragraphs tucked away in the pages of a US daily newspaper. I can't recall the date of the newspaper announcement, but I believe it was the New York Times. This first public announcement is one of the other key historical facts and I'm looking into it. A number of timelines attribute the invention of the transistor to 1948, possibly based on a later, formal press release from Bell Labs. >Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:37:18 -0400 >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention Bob wrote: >I have no expertise about transistors. Bob, I don't think any of us here have, but a little grass roots research should be within our capabilities. >But during my teens I was a religious reader of the old science >fiction/science fact magazine Analog. I didn't realise it was available that far back. ;) >I distinctly remember an article they published some time in the >mid-60s about the transistor, and in this article they pointed out >that the transistor had actually been discovered (which is more >accurate than invented) many years before the official invention by >Bell Labs, but at the time of this discovery no one could conceive >of any use for it so it was written up in some journal and then >forgotten. It's unlikely this wouldn't be part of the historical record; there doesn't seem to be any references to it. However, I wonder if it's a reference to a "transistor effect", or similar. Your mission, should you accept it, is to find a copy of the actual issue. >I wonder if anyone else on this list used to read Analog back then, >and if they recall the article, or even better if someone might still >have a copy of it. Maybe worth an enquiry to the sci-fi newsgroups? >Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:04:57 -0400 >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention Steve wrote: >>The original paper on the development of the transistor is >>apparently: >>J. Bardeen and W.H. Brattain, "Physical Principles Involved in >>Transistor Action", Phys. Rev. 75, 1208-1225 (1949). >I work three blocks from the Library of Congress. >The article looks like it's only 17 pages long, and I'll see if I can >track it down and copy the relevent section. If someone else locates >it, please let me know. Steve, If it wasn't too much trouble to obtain a copy, it could be a more direct route. Unless we want to effect a breakdown on the UpDates mail server, and probably Errol, that's too many pages to scan and post here. If you can easily access to a photocopy of the original paper and mail me a copy, I would be happy to scan the entire document and upload it to my web site. You can perhaps let me know if that's feasible. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: Close Encounters of the Third Kind - Re-release From: MarvelX42@aol.com [Jim Infield] Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:33:35 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:38:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Close Encounters of the Third Kind - Re-release Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 02:32:34 +0000 From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> To: updates@globalserve.net Subject: [Fwd: Close Encounters of the Third Kind - Press Release] >'CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND' (PG) comes to video on >September 22 l997 at =A39.99 rrp. This new digitally re-mastered >and restored edition has been approved by the director, >Steven Spielberg, himself. I am real sorry if this seems kinda off subject, but have any of you heard of a 'CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND' sequel, in any form? MarvelX42@aol.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: Foo-fighters over Greenland? From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:52:18 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:55:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Foo-fighters over Greenland? THE SAGA UFO REPORT for October 1977, carried an article entitled "UFO Crisis over Greenland" by Rufus Drake. A sighting report in the article tells of an encounter near Thule. A B-17 bomber being ferried to England in 1942 encountered "incandescent flying objects" thought to be from a German aircraft carrier....of course, there were no German aircraft carriers. I have a book about British and Canadian ferry operations during World War II. No mention is made of Thule. Does anyone know when the base there became operational? The Germans did indeed have an aircraft carrier which the Soviets towed off after World War II ended. In 1950 a newspaper in Berlin claimed that the Soviets were using the refloated and refitted aircraft carrier to launch missiles over Sweden. Does anyone know the whereabouts of the old Graf Zeppelin aircraft carrier in 1950? Was it indeed in the Soviet fleet? A report to US or Allied intelligence about aircraft operating from a possible German aircraft carrier in 1942 would have probably caused a sensation. Has anyone seen anything like this in naval or aviation histories? I would like to track down this very interest report. Jan Aldrich Project 1947
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: information on the new research team called NRO From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 22:59:30 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:56:24 -0400 Subject: Re: information on the new research team called NRO > From: brazel@webtv.net (Clint Stone) > Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:29:40 -0500 > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: NRO > Hello all, > Does anyone have any information on the new research team called NRO? I > recieved an e-mail from someone "inviting me" to join a new non-profit > organization that promises salary to all members if the "club" grows. Is > this to good to be true? Comments? > Clint Stone > ASD Ky/MUFON Clint, Yes, this organization is also called the American welfare system. Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 23:34:36 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:58:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/11/97 9:07 PM: > Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:05:43 +0100 > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 > Yes exactly and it gives us another tool in the process of elimination. > If the report says brilliant lights on an airship sighting in 1896 to > say 1910 you can be pretty sure that it wasn't an airship but more of > your garden variety UFO, identified with the best available knowledge of > that day....airships. Especially, since, for whatever reasons, my intuition is that there were relatively few "high-performance" UFO sightings during that period. Does anyone have more complete information on the airship period? It would be interesting to know how many airships showed unusual performance characteristics which match modern reports. Could that assist in weeding out the press hoaxes? I know FUFOR has a couple of comprehensive catalogs and analyses. I recall one, from Flammonde, I think, about a man who sees a meter-high, ten meter (?) long spindle shaped object in his driveway, which takes off rapidly shortly afterward. Reminded me of the Gaichinard sighting, but it was an 1800 vintage sighting. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: Writers & Fees From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 22:46:49 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:59:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Writers & Fees >Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:19:16 -0400 >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Writers & Fees >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> <snip> >I hear that Strieber claims to be dead broke these days, and considering >the apparently limp sales of his books after Communion, it could well be >true. Maybe he will return to horror fiction where he can make some >money. <snip> >Bob As widely reported and never denied, Strieber received a $1 miilion advance for Communion. Prior to that, two books he co-authored with James Kunetka, War Day and Nature's End, had been best sellers. In addition, two of his own books, The Wolfen and The Hunger, were sold to Hollywood and made into fairly successful movies. If he's indeed dead broke these days, then it has nothing whatsoever to do with UFOs and ufology. To paraphrase an old Saturday Night Live routine: "Beesbol been berry, berry good to heem!" Ditto John Mack, who received a reported quarter of a million dollars advance for Abducted; Hopkins' advance for Witnessed is reported to have been $150,000. I suspect that C.D.B. Bryan's book on abductions, along with Corso's Day After Roswell and Jim Marrs' Alien Agenda all fall pretty much into the same five-figure realm. So publishers aren't the only ones making a buck by any means. SA Sasquatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: Writers & Fees From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 22:39:41 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 01:00:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Writers & Fees > Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:58:17 -0400 > From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> > Subject: Writers & Fees > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments to the List. > For the record: > I last saw Richard in Detroit in sixty-eight... and I last saw Phil Klass > in London in April at the FT UnConvention. We were sitting around gassing > in the green room, with Rebecca Keith among others (so she can probably > confirm this). Phil remarked that he had calculated that over the years he > has made about 6 cents an hour on UFO books, conference appearances and his > newsletter after expenses. Since he's been slagging off ufology for about > 30 years now I guess we can safely say he concluded a long time ago that he > wan't going to be in this business for the money. > Yours &c > Postbox D. Mailvan > Chicken Counter I wouldn't go shedding any tears for Phil just yet. There are certain tax benefits that no one mentioned: depreciation on computers and other equipment, home office deductions, SEP or Keogh retirement plans, insurance benefits, etc. Also, if you can arrange your income properly one year you could have a big loss to put against other income. Of course, if you can arrange a trip and just do a little research while there, you can write off your vacation. So, 6 cents an hour does not tell the whole story by a long shot. BTW: I just hit the high points on possible tax benefits. You do want some income, though. Otherwise, the Infernal Revenue will say you are just engaging in a hobby and disallow everything. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 12 Surveyor and The Mars 'Face' From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 02:00:20 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 01:02:41 -0400 Subject: Surveyor and The Mars 'Face' Hello List, I just finished watching a news report concerning the Mars Surveyor. During the course of the story a reporter brings up the "Face in Cydonia" anomaly and we cut away to a smiling male face at JPL saying "I think that we'll find that that is just an interesting surface feature....blah.blah.blah..." The scientist, a young man himself, must have been restraining himself from reaching out and patting the foolish reporter on the head in a fatherly fashion. What a stuffed shirt. Don't get me wrong, I'm a long way from buying into this face myself. But for this stuffed shirt to come on like this without any evidence one way or another really bugged me. Perhaps because like many of us I have run into this lofty attitude many times before in the UFO field, meaning those with little or no credentials in this area make broad sweeping statements that are taken at face value by the general public because s/he has a bunch of letters after their name, though no expertise whatsoever. I had one other thought when he made this broad statement, "I think that we'll find..." My thought was 'Yeah..and if you don't find..will we know about it..or will more video tape disappear, another breakdown in transmission..?" Late in the evening, and I'm ticked off. G'night, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 23:42:15 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 01:06:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention >Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:27:21 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention >But I have to ask how your view of Corso and the others named above impacts >your editorial viewpoint at the MUFON Journal? You've indicated that there >isn't enough time, and their aren't enough submissions, to allow for a full >juried review of the articles that are forwarded to the Journal for >consideration. However, one of the functions of an "Editor" would seem to >be to determine what should be included, or excluded, in the publication. >If you believe those listed are all spouting nonsense (which is certainly a >valid point of view), how does that impacts your consideration of articles >submitted by them, or about their theories or viewpoints. > To be brief (I'm leaving early tomorrow on vacation), but hopefully not glib, the answer to your question can be found in any issue of the Journal. After I published the Jeffrey article, I published a lengthy rebuttal by Randle; after I published Pflock's highly critical review of Corso's book I published Woods' less than highly critical review of same. After I criticized Leir & Sims in the August issue, I published their response in the September number. The record speaks for itself. I routinely publish material with which I personally disagree. If you want to give the Corso book the time of day, then I certainly won't stand in your way. >Rebecca has also indicated in one of her responses that there are changes >under consideration by the MUFON Journal, and I'm sure there are many on >this list that would like to know what types of changes are under >consideration. Everyone who receives the Journal got a Journal survey with their most recent issue. One of the options therein is to remove the present editor. Vote your conscience. Dennis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 06:46:11 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 01:12:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention >Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:40:20 -0500 (CDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention >To accept Corso at face value is to demean yourself, in the same way that he >demeans his own military colleagues, all those who died in the allegedly >misdirected Cold War, and those terrestrial scientists ultimately deserving >of their due respect and accolades for having contributed to human >understanding. Corso should be ashamed of himself, as should be his >co-author William Birnes. And that goes double for any of you who believe it >for a minute. At least Corso and company have an excuse -- money. >The rest of you have no excuse at all, save for some bewildering and >overwhelming desire to believe each and absolutely every story that comes >down the UFO turnpike. Thus you get the ufology you deserve, from Roger >Leir, Derrel Sims, Philip Corso, John Lear and Robert Morning Sky, to Robert >Lazar, Art Bell, Michael Hessemann, and Bob Dean. A pox on the lot of you >for taking such silliness seriously. Dennis, I respect you because you speak your mind. At least we know where you stand. But allow me to make a cheap shot here: you get the evidence you deserve, namely nothing. ____________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm e-mail: hvdp@worldonline.nl web: http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp Leiden, The Netherlands \__________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: MUFON Journal From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 01:41:34 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:01:08 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON Journal From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 23:42:15 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 01:06:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention > Everyone who receives the Journal got a Journal survey with their most > recent issue. One of the options therein is to remove the present editor. And three months from now, when some vocal people bitch again, is there going to be another survey and so on and so on? Personally, I think removing the present editor is a bit drastic. Also, I don't think it is an appropriate question for the survey. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 12 American radio-jamming From: Dave Watanabe <davew@aufora.org> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:11:59 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:47:28 -0400 Subject: American radio-jamming exoScience UFO Thursday, September 11th, 1997 http://exosci.com ______________________________ I am normally not very pleased with 'government conspiracy' claims by Ufologists, but I thought the following was a genuinely terrifying and real example of the power the government has. Basically, the American government has dispatched US radio and TV jamming airplanes to Bosnia where local radio and TV broadcasts will be disrupted and replaced with US controlled programming. An excerpt from a Reuters article: "Each of the elite Special Forces planes -- based at Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, and manned by a crew of 11 -- can send strong signals to "jam" ground broadcasts by overriding them and at the same time send broadcasts on other channels. "The aircraft are being deployed there in response to the persistent pattern of vehement rhetoric and incitement to violence being broadcast by Serb radio and television," Army Col. Richard Bridges, a Pentagon spokesman, told reporters. " Effectively, the Serbs are saying things the Americans don't agree with, so they are going to control the information flow. Now, I am not trying to imply anything about the governments specific actions here in North America, but if they can control information flow in a country on the other side of the globe, how extensive and effective is their information control in America?? Dave Watanabe exoScience http://exosci.com/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: Writers & Fees From: KRandle993@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 03:10:12 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:55:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Writers & Fees In a message dated 97-09-10 15:12:53 EDT, you write: >> Phil must have very foolishly failed to receive royalty on the vast >> number of his books that Prometheus contributed to libraries around >> the country. His failure to capitalize on his writings must mostly >> be his own fault... Writers don't receive royalties on books that are donated or remainered. Besides that Prometheus has a really lousy royalty rate. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: Surveyor and The Mars 'Face' From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 03:07:36 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:03:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Surveyor and The Mars 'Face' > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 02:00:20 +0100 > Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 01:02:41 -0400 > Subject: Surveyor and The Mars 'Face' > Hello List, > I just finished watching a news report concerning the Mars Surveyor. > During the course of the story a reporter brings up the "Face in > Cydonia" anomaly and we cut away to a smiling male face at JPL saying > "I > think that we'll find that that is just an interesting surface > feature....blah.blah.blah..." The scientist, a young man himself, must > have been restraining himself from reaching out and patting the > foolish > reporter on the head in a fatherly fashion. What a stuffed shirt. > Don't get me wrong, I'm a long way from buying into this face myself. > But for this stuffed shirt to come on like this without any evidence > one way or another really bugged me. Perhaps because like many of us I > have run into this lofty attitude many times before in the UFO field, > meaning those with little or no credentials in this area make broad > sweeping statements that are taken at face value by the general public > because s/he has a bunch of letters after their name, though no > expertise whatsoever. Interesting thing Don, it's not whether the face is natural or artificial it's the attitude, the complacency. I had a conversation with an older member of my family the other day and she informed about the reality of public opinion back in the fifties. The suggestion that life may exist on other worlds brought ridicule and scorn. Although she personally believed that intelligent life existing here alone was unlikely she never spoke her opinion because it was well known what would happen if one did. It took a few dacades for the world and science to catch up but it did happen. The notion that intelligent life has been to our system or our planet brings much the same intolerance now as the notion of ET life existing at all brought in the fifties. The fact is that this attitide will change to. The rate at which the world catches up seems to be measured in decades. I've seen enough provocative T-shirts on high school students of today to know that years from now, scientists and news reporters will change their approach when dealing with some the issues we discuss on this list. Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: Writers & Fees From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 07:49:57 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:06:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Writers & Fees >Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 22:39:41 -0700 >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Writers & Fees >BTW: I just hit the high points on possible tax benefits. You do >want some income, though. Otherwise, the Infernal Revenue will >say you are just engaging in a hobby and disallow everything. Jan, Yes, there are lots of tax benefits and loopholes, but you gotta have a pretty good gross income to take advantage of them. Those SEP and Keogh plans, and the like, do you no good if you don't have any money to put into them. Your last point is not exactly accurate. If you are a writer, and that's your sole source of income, then you can lose money every year and still not get problems from the IRS. It is only when writing, or anything else, is a secondary business and you consistently lose money that they can declare it a hobby. Most writers I know have shown a loss on more tax years than they've shown a profit, but the IRS has never said a word to them. Also, it helps keep them happy if you incorporate yourself as a business. Also, it helps to have a wife with a real job!!!!! I'm thinking of moving to Ireland in a few years, anyway. In Ireland published writers are not taxed. Very enlightened policy, that! Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: Foo-fighters over Greenland? From: "usa.net" <phryman@usa.net> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:42:25 Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:08:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Foo-fighters over Greenland? >Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:52:18 -0700 >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Foo-fighters over Greenland? > >THE SAGA UFO REPORT for October 1977, carried an article >entitled "UFO Crisis over Greenland" by Rufus Drake. A >sighting report in the article tells of an encounter near >Thule. A B-17 bomber being ferried to England in 1942 >encountered "incandescent flying objects" thought to be >from a German aircraft carrier....of course, there were no >German aircraft carriers. > ><Snip> >The Germans did indeed have an aircraft carrier which the >Soviets towed off after World War II ended. In 1950 a >newspaper in Berlin claimed that the Soviets were using the >refloated and refitted aircraft carrier to launch missiles >over Sweden. Does anyone know the whereabouts of the old >Graf Zeppelin aircraft carrier in 1950? Was it indeed in >the Soviet fleet? > >A report to US or Allied intelligence about aircraft operating >from a possible German aircraft carrier in 1942 would have >probably caused a sensation. Has anyone seen anything like >this in naval or aviation histories? I would like to track >down this very interest report. > >Jan Aldrich >Project 1947 Jan, Here is what I could track down right off the bat about the fate of the Graf Zepplin. I will do a little more digging when I get a few spare minutes to see if I can find out anything else. Graf Zepplin Built by Duetsche Were, Kiel. Laid down 28 Dec 1936, launched 8 Dec 1938, suspended at 85-90% complete 5/1940. Work resumed 3 May 1942, but stopped again 30 Jan 1943. Scuttled 1/1945. Raised and siezed by the Soviets 1946, departed in tow for Leningrad 27 Sept 1947 but never arrived; she was probably mined in route. Other reports indicate she capsized due to an overload of war booty, or that she reached Leningrad and was later scrapped, possibly because of mine damage. Hope This Helps, Mike Modrow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:57:36 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:10:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:21:31 -0400 > From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Regarding... > > >From: "WHITE" <mjawhite@digitaldune.net> [John White] > >Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention > >Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 06:58:23 -0700 > John wrote: > >There is an "in-house" piece written by W. Schockley: "The Theory of > >P-N Junctions in Semiconductors and P-N Junction Transistors" Bell > >System Technical Journal 28:436 (1949), which predates "Electrons and > >Holes" by about two years. > > John, > > Do you possibly have a copy of this? It's a "must-see" for sure. > > >Negative evidence usually isn't worth much, unless it rules out, in > >toto, existence of positive evidence. This thread, for any number > >of reasons, and not the least of which would be simple historical > >value, bears deeper scrutiny. > Yes, I think it's a worthwhile exercise, even if only from a > historical context. > >From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson] > >Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 19:58:42 -0400 (EDT) > >Subject: Phil Corso stole my book! > Drew wrote: > >For the record; > >Dec. 16, 1947 Shockley, Bardeen and others announce the first > >recognition of the transistor effect. > Drew, > Do you have a reference for this? It's one of the key facts to be > established. > >July 1, 1948 The New York Times announces the discovery in its "News > >of Radio" section. Super snip My two volume, third edition, copyrighted 1968 copies of the Columbia Viking Desk Encylopedia states that Shockley, Brattain and Bardeen invented the transistor in 1948. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 12 BWW Media Alert 970912 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:25:57 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:12:44 -0400 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970912 Bufo Calvin P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/BufoCalvin/index.html">BufoCalvin's Home Page< /A> TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (Permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes, provided attribution is made to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to ask strangers before e-mailing them something. If you do forward it to someone, please be sure that it is clear you are forwarding it) September 12, 1997 Not a big week, really. I'm having some difficulty listing periodicals here the way I have in the past, often due to space. How would you feel about me splitting out another list for periodicals (and books?)? It would mean that you would (probably once a month) get another mailing. It would also allow my "foreign correspondents" to get just the periodicals/books listing without all the U.S. media. Let me know... On to the listings! (Remember, times given here are generally Pacific) ONLINE Controversial curator of THE NATIONAL UFO, BIGFOOT, AND LOCH NESS MONSTER MUSEUM, Erik Beckjord, hosts (and may or may not attend) a regular Tuesday night, 6:00 PM Pacific time, chat room, at http://WWW.CROSSFIELDS.COM/~ufomus/chat/ <A HREF="http://WWW. CROSSFIELDS.CO M/~ufomus/chat/ ">Museum Chat</A> OMNI MAGAZINE (http://www.omnimag.com <A HREF="http://www.omnimag.com">Omni M agazine</A> ) is back to do real time conferences. The regular night for our kind of stuff is Tuesday 7:00 PM to 8:00 PM Pacific. This week, Robert Anton Wilson, who popularized the term "Illuminati", discusses his latest, <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1561840912/bufosweirdworldA/">Th e Walls Came Tumbling Down</A> . I don't really know if this is intended to be taken as fiction or not. RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE is now SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO. This has resulted, among other things, in a new website: http://www.sightings.com. <A HREF="http://www.sightings.com">SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO</A> Next week's guests not known (except for Michael Lindemann ...he'll be on at 6:00 PM Wednesday as I write this, but you can check their website on Monday. It can also be heard on your computer. Airtimes: M-F 6-9 PM Pacific (times given here are generally Pacific),. Sunday 8-11 PM Pacific. Archives of earlier shows are also available, so you can hear my previous broadcasts through this site. SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE? --week of 9/8, paranormal paramedic; girl freed from fridge --week of 9/15, blind woman drives; Mom knows daughter needs help PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com <A HREF="http://www.psifactor.com">P SI Factor</A> for stations and airdates and other info). This series is supposedly based on real cases. --Week of 9/6, THE FIRE WITHIN (spontaneous human combustion); FATE (psychic teen) --Week of 9/13, DEATH AT SUNSET; COLLISION (soul transfer of car accident victim to driver) Saturday, September 13 RADIO: ART BELL interviews James Van Praagh, author of <A HREF="http://www.am azon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0525942688/bufosweirdworldA/">Talking to Heaven : A Medium's Message of Life After Death</A> . This interview actually starts Friday night. (see website at http://www.artbell.com) RADIO: THE EDGE OF REALITY, 5:00 PM -8:00 PM Pacific. Also available on Satcom C5, Transponder 23, SEDAT Channel 24. The specific spots have to be considered tentative, and the station in your area may run it tape-delayed. No details available. 2:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: STRANGE SKIES (astronomical mysteries, like the canals of Mars and the star of Bethlehem) Sunday, September 14 SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND: (see http://www.artbell.com < A HREF="http://www.artbell.com">Art Bell</A> for stations and program info) Art interviews Gail De Sciose, who communicates with animals (should make for some interesting calls ;) ) LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 7:00 PM: JOURNEY: Brenda Roberts produces. 11:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5070): INCIDENT AT CHERRY CREEK! (one of Blue Books unsolved UFO reports); THE POWER OF CHI!; SPIRIT PHOTOGRAPHY!; PROFILERS!; OMEN IN THE SKY! (Mike Lee, of the Religion Department at Damien Memorial High School in Hawaii predicts earthquakes) 12:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD, STRANGE POWERS OF ANIMALS 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5070): INCIDENT AT CHERRY CREEK! (one of Blue Books unsolved UFO reports); THE POWER OF CHI!; SPIRIT PHOTOGRAPHY!; PROFILERS!; OMEN IN THE SKY! (Mike Lee, of the Religion Department at Damien Memorial High School in Hawaii predicts earthquakes) 10:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5070): INCIDENT AT CHERRY CREEK! (one of Blue Books unsolved UFO reports); THE POWER OF CHI!; SPIRIT PHOTOGRAPHY!; PROFILERS!; OMEN IN THE SKY! (Mike Lee, of the Religion Department at Damien Memorial High School in Hawaii predicts earthquakes) Monday, September 15 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: girls' school haunting (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse <A HREF="http://www.rysher.com/strang eun iverse/">Strange Universe</A> for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: Brenda Roberts produces. 5:30 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#12): WALL OF VOODOO; ALIEN ARTISTS (people create art based on their contacts); MESSAGES IN THE CROPS (crop circles) 10:01 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#12): WALL OF VOODOO; ALIEN ARTISTS (people create art based on their contacts); MESSAGES IN THE CROPS (crop circles) 7:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, FUTURE FANTASTIC, ALIEN (I don't know if this will only have to do with ETs out there, or if it covers reports here as well) Tuesday, September 16 SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 5:30 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#13): CREATING THE ILLUSION (stage magic); ON PINS & NEEDLES (acupuncture); LOOKING FOR LOVE 10:01 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#13): CREATING THE ILLUSION (stage magic); ON PINS & NEEDLES (acupuncture); LOOKING FOR LOVE Wednesday, September 17 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 5:30 AM, , THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#14): SKEPTIC SOCIETY; INTER-SPECIES COMMUNICATION; FENG SHUI 10:01 AM, , THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#14): SKEPTIC SOCIETY; INTER-SPECIES COMMUNICATION; FENG SHUI Thursday, September 18 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: guru Meher Baba(see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 5:30 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#15): SEANCES; DREAM THERAPYl THE GHOST & MRS. VIEWER (finding spirits in your home...and they don't mean alcohol) 10:01 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#15): SEANCES; DREAM THERAPYl THE GHOST & MRS. VIEWER (finding spirits in your home...and they don't mean alcohol) 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5061): Argentinian UFO encounter; dog that smells cancer; Internet ghosts; anti-gravity; House of Plenty haunting; "UFO documentation" 7:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: Spontaneous Human Combustion 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD, MYSTERIOUS INDIA 8:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5061): Argentinian UFO encounter; dog that smells cancer; Internet ghosts; anti-gravity; House of Plenty haunting; "UFO documentation" Friday, September 19 LOCAL RADIO, 8:00 PM (Pacific Time) WGBB 1240 AM, New York: THE JOYCE KELLER SHOW: the host is a psychic who helps callers. Phone number is 516-955-1240 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD, MYSTERIOUS INDIA 5:30 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#16): THE MAGIC CASTLE; THE APHRODISIAC CONNECTION; GALACTIC HUMANS 10:01 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#16): THE MAGIC CASTLE; THE APHRODISIAC CONNECTION; GALACTIC HUMANS This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before. _____________________________ **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. ______________________________ <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/weirdware/books.html">Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Books </A> I'm very excited about this! Some of you know, I ran a bookstore for years, and it has always been a love of mine. I get asked often to recommend books (I do write reviews for several publications) on these topics, and now I can do it and actually give you a source for them at the same time! This is being done in association with Amazon.com, which has an outstanding reputation for the five "S"s of internet shopping: selection, searchability, service, savings, and security. If there is any specific book you want (or topic in which you are interested), let me know and I will do the research and e-mail you a link you can use to check it out more (and order it if you want). I will be linking to books within the Media Alert, to make it more efficient for you. If you click on the link, you will be sent to that title on Amazon. You do =not= have to buy it at that point! You may, but the option is yours.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: American radio-jamming From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:12:42 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:26:46 -0400 Subject: Re: American radio-jamming > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/12/97 9:47 AM: > Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:11:59 -0700 > To: aufora@spots.ab.ca > From: Dave Watanabe <davew@aufora.org> > Subject: exoSci: American radio jamming > Effectively, the Serbs are saying things the Americans don't agree with, so > they are going to control the information flow. > Now, I am not trying to imply anything about the governments specific > actions here in North America, but if they can control information flow in > a country on the other side of the globe, how extensive and effective is > their information control in America?? Jamming broadcasts is one thing. Controlling information flow with a vast conspiratorial network is another. (End of serious response, beginning of satire not directed at Dave). After all, look how hard it is for Dennis to cover up his role in the cover-up... ;-) (just kidding, really, seriously...) Disclaimer: The above was just a joke. Except for the first paragraph, which represents the actual opinion of the author, for which the author was not solicited or paid by anyone. The completely paranoid, however, are free to view the author as yet another disinformation agent in the pay of some acronymic US government agency, a tool of the Bilderburgs (sp?), the Illuminati, multinational corporations, international bankers, the planetary intelligence Gaia... or any other suspicious existing or imaginary agency who might spend their time doing nothing but singling out UFO enthusiasts as a major danger to their plans to unite the world under a single dictatorship, hand the planetary population over to an alien species as a food source, create planetary anarchy, tell people the truth about Area 51, or whatever. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention From: Perry Mick <perrym@teleport.com> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 04:22:16 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:05:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention The following quote from "Flying Saucers Uncensored" by Harold T. Wilkens is interesting, considering the book was written in 1955. This is from pages 86-87 of the paperback version: There is reason to suppose that one type of saucer may use alloys that, in certain conditions, generate energy. This is suggested in the following: April 26, 1954: Sunlight, striking on silicon found in sand and clay, generates electricity. (Bell Telephone Laboratory, U.S.A.) Author's note: Silicon is one of the thirteen or more constituents of a mysterious alloy dropped from a flying saucer in distress -- shaped like a doughnut -- over Maury Island, Washington State, on June 21, 1947. A silicon battery, held up, even to a clouded sky, generates current enough to operate a small radio transmitter.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: Cheap Shots From: Theresa <Tcarlson1@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 03:35:19 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:01:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Cheap Shots >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 05:58:29 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Cheap shots Hi Rebecca, >Everyone is entitled to an opinion -- even you. But this sounds more a >personal beef with Stacy than anything else. Yes, I suppose it could be looked at like that. But considering it was you that suggested I send it out to Mr. Stacy and I didn't think it was a cheap shot, it might be a matter of perception. I just thought you found it amusing, as I did. On the other hand it could be a lot of other things too. Like drawing attention to something, namely a book in this particular instance, that might have gone unnoticed by those that didn't see the reviews. Or maybe don't get the MUFON UFO Journal. On the subject of 'cheap shots' though, there is a lot of that in this field, but probably not out of proportion to other fields not even related to Ufology. In any field that has the diversity of opinion and viewpoints that this field has, we should expect to see it. Is there possibly an advantage to discussing these that might be useful to the field? I do wonder if those scientific fields and areas that are based more on theory, might have more of a problem in this area. Ufology fits in there. No one can prove a point, so maybe the 'cheap shot' is the way around that. Or maybe its a source of information too. All depends on your perception. I don't know, but I wonder about it, now that you brought it up. Is it worth discussing in depth? Regards, Theresa
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: Surveyor and The Mars 'Face' From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:35:44 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:53:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Surveyor and The Mars 'Face' > Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 03:07:36 -0700 > From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) > To: Updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: Surveyor and The Mars 'Face' > > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > > Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 02:00:20 +0100 > > Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 01:02:41 -0400 > > Subject: Surveyor and The Mars 'Face' > > Hello List, > > I just finished watching a news report concerning the Mars Surveyor. > > During the course of the story a reporter brings up the "Face in > > Cydonia" anomaly and we cut away to a smiling male face at JPL saying > > "I think that we'll find that that is just an interesting surface > > feature....blah.blah.blah..." The scientist, a young man himself, > > must have been restraining himself from reaching out and patting the > > foolish reporter on the head in a fatherly fashion. What a stuffed > >shirt . > > Don't get me wrong, I'm a long way from buying into this face myself. Snipped > Interesting thing Don, it's not whether the face is natural or > artificial it's the attitude, the complacency. I had a conversation >with an older member of my family the other day and she informed about >the reality of public opinion back in the fifties. The suggestion that >life may exist on other worlds brought ridicule and scorn. Although she > personally believed that intelligent life existing here alone was > unlikely she never spoke her opinion because it was well known what > would happen if one did. It took a few dacades for the world and >science to catch up but it did happen. The notion that intelligent life >has been to our system or our planet brings much the same intolerance >now as the notion of ET life existing at all brought in the fifties. >The fact is that this attitide will change to. The rate at which the >world catches up seems to be measured in decades. I've seen enough >provocative T-shirts on high school students of today to know that >years from now, scientists and news reporters will change their >approach when dealing with some the issues we discuss on this list. > Jared. Hello Jared, Errol and List, I have no doubt but that you are right in your observations Jared, because I must admit that I have been surprised at the attitude of those below the age of thirty concerning the existance of UFOs. Not all mind you but a surprisngly large percentage of that group which I would estimate at well over 60% as opposed to the Gallup figure across all age groups of about 40%. I find the former take the existance of such at face value. Unfortunately we cannot say the same for our scientific brethern. Your decades approach might bring these people online in about 20 to 30 years, or just about the time we get a human on Mars. This time frame disturbs me because I might be "pushin' up daisys" by then. <G> Regards, Don [suddenly feeling old] Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 13 Re: Writers & Fees From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:54:32 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 00:35:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Writers & Fees > Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 07:49:57 -0400 > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Writers & Fees > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 22:39:41 -0700 > >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Writers & Fees Bob, My post concerned Phil Klass who for many years had a regular job. Also, Klass does not write exclusively on UFOs. > >BTW: I just hit the high points on possible tax benefits. You do > >want some income, though. Otherwise, the Infernal Revenue will > >say you are just engaging in a hobby and disallow everything. > Jan, > Yes, there are lots of tax benefits and loopholes, but you gotta have > a pretty good gross income to take advantage of them. Those SEP and > Keogh plans, and the like, do you no good if you don't have any money > to put into them. For Phil the secondary income, no matter how small could be a blessing for tax purposes. Secondary income from something like writing does not usually come in on a regular basis, and additionally, might be postponed so that one year there is sufficient income to fund these things. In other years losses can be taken. Phil makes 6 cents an hour. Hah! That is not the whole story. And big film like "Coming to America" makes no money! Tax accounting can be wonderful, but not for the average person. > Your last point is not exactly accurate. If you are a writer, and that's > your sole source of income, then you can lose money every year and still > not get problems from the IRS. It is only when writing, or anything else, > is a secondary business and you consistently lose money that they can > declare it a hobby. Most writers I know have shown a loss on more > tax years than they've shown a profit, but the IRS has never said a word to > them. Also, it helps keep them happy if you incorporate yourself as a > business. Also, it helps to have a wife with a real job!!!!! What you say may be true for you, however, once again, I was talking about Klass. UFO writing was not Phil Klass' sole source of income. However, maybe Klass did not take any of these tax advanages. > I'm thinking of moving to Ireland in a few years, anyway. In Ireland > published writers are not taxed. Very enlightened policy, that! There are trade off for everything you do, believe me. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 13 Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson] Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:23:04 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 00:39:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention >>From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson] >>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 19:58:42 -0400 (EDT) >>Subject: Phil Corso stole my book! >Drew wrote: >>For the record; >>Dec. 16, 1947 Shockley, Bardeen and others announce the first >>recognition of the transistor effect. >Drew, >Do you have a reference for this? It's one of the key facts to be >established. One reference in-hand is "The Timtables of Technology" edited by Bryan Bunch and Alexander Hellmans published by Simon and Schuster in 1993, p.374 under the 'Electronics & Computers' section. This mentions the Dec. 16 and Dec. 23 dates I mentioned in my post. >>July 1, 1948 The New York Times announces the discovery in its "News >>of Radio" section. >Some years back whilst studying Computing at College, I wrote an essay >on the history of computing - no doubt a dreadful one. Nonetheless, >it began by referring to the press announcement of the transistor's >invention, a brief few paragraphs tucked away in the pages of a US >daily newspaper. >I can't recall the date of the newspaper announcement, but I believe >it was the New York Times. This first public announcement is one of >the other key historical facts and I'm looking into it. A number of >timelines attribute the invention of the transistor to 1948, possibly >based on a later, formal press release from Bell Labs. See above for the New York Times issue in which it was announced to the public. Drew Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 13 Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson] Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:23:08 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 00:41:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention >Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 04:22:16 -0700 (PDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Perry Mick <perrym@teleport.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention >The following quote from "Flying Saucers Uncensored" by Harold T. Wilkens is >interesting, considering the book was written in 1955. This is from pages >86-87 of the paperback version: >There is reason to suppose that one type of saucer may use alloys that, in >certain conditions, generate energy. This is suggested in the following: >April 26, 1954: Sunlight, striking on silicon found in sand and clay, >generates electricity. (Bell Telephone Laboratory, U.S.A.) >Author's note: Silicon is one of the thirteen or more constituents of a >mysterious alloy dropped from a flying saucer in distress -- shaped like a >doughnut -- over Maury Island, Washington State, on June 21, 1947. A >silicon battery, held up, even to a clouded sky, generates current enough to >operate a small radio transmitter. Whooppeeee!! So much for advanced Bell technology. In 1900 Johann Philip Elster produced the first practical photo-electric cell with the earliest models dating back to 1896, and the theory had been worked on since 1889. Perhaps Elster gained the requisite technology by "seeding" terrestrial technology with that from a crashed "mysterious airship" in the 1896-7 wave! <g> Drew Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 13 A New Question about Witness Anonymity From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:55:27 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 00:46:47 -0400 Subject: A New Question about Witness Anonymity Greetings List Members and Our Esteemed Moderator/Owner: I really admire EBK for all the work he does on this list, plus he's an all-around good guy, too! Hopefully, he's going to allow me to touch on the topic of witness anonymity in relation to abductees. The subject of abductee anonymity is an important one and I agree that abductee's should have anonymity, if they so choose. I don't want to debate when they give up their anonymity, as we have been there, done that. My question relates to ethical issues -- something which has been on my mind of late, as I just now getting around to reading the papers from the Abduction Conference held at MIT. A most interesting book, with a lot of excellent ideas and reasearch. The way I see it there is NOTHING right now to hold a non-medical professional to any kind of ethical standard. This is one of the big problems facing abduction investigation/research, IMO. In the medical profession (and probably many other professions as well) there are ethical standards which professionals are held to. One of those standards (and it may even be a law, for all I know) involves a patient's right to privacy. If an abductee was working with a medical professional, the abductee would have reasonable assurace that the professional would be held accountable, if that privacy was violated. There are ethical committees that would accept testimony and consider action against a medical professional who diviulged private information about a patient. But that is not so with abductionists -- such as Budd Hopkins, David Jacobs, Derrel Sims and others who have no standard to uphold. I'm not saying that ANY of these people are unethical, but what recourse does an abductee have if these people violate some promise? There is no committee to take a complaint to. There is no way to put them out of business. Your only recourse, IMO, could be a court battle which would be costly. I don't know how you could even win a case (but that doesn't mean it's not possible) if one of these people did violate some promise they made to you, because these people are not bound to any code of ethics. The Code of Ethics that has been adopted by CUFOS and MUFON is a good one, but it is little more than a document. You can't really hold anyone to it. I've heard stories of non-medical professionals disclosing information that they should have kept confidential but I have no proof. Other than the putting the word out that a confidentiality has been breeched, what's to stop a new person from going to these people for help, unaware that they might not be ethical. Also, do abductees even realize that these people are under no obligation, except morally, to upheld your confidences? John Velez, from time to time, signs his posts "Union Rep." I'm not a big fan of unions, but I do believe it is time for some of the myths and fallacies of abduction research to be put to bed. Maybe it's time for an abductee's union. A place where abductees could get responsible information on their rights. I think a clearing house should be established where complaints about abuses could be filed and investigated. Maybe that's a witch hunt, I don't know. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 13 Re: Cheap Shots From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:59:20 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 00:52:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Cheap Shots >From: Theresa <Tcarlson1@compuserve.com> >Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 03:35:19 -0400 >Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:01:40 -0400 >Subject: Re: Cheap Shots >Everyone is entitled to an opinion -- even you. But this sounds more a >personal beef with Stacy than anything else. > Yes, I suppose it could be looked at like that. But > considering it was you that suggested I send it out to > Mr. Stacy and I didn't think it was a cheap shot, it > might be a matter of perception. I just thought you > found it amusing, as I did. I wasn't amused. The only reason I suggested you forward it to Dennis is because you posted on Compuserve with direct questions to Dennis. Since Dennis wasn't on Compuserve, I doubt that he would have seen it there. Besides, my suggestion that you forward came AFTER you actually forwarded it, so methinks, you sent it on your own and without any help from me. At the UFO UpDates Archive, your message header looks like this: From: Theresa <110213.3274@compuserve.com> [Theresa Carlson] Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 02:47:53 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:48:18 -0400 Subject: MUFON Journal Muses Your message in the MUFON section on CompuServe indicates that it was posted: Wednesday, September 10, 1997 2:49:04 AM My reply to you in the MUFON section on CompuServe was posted: Wednesday, September 10, 1997 11:14:54 AM Those are central daylight times, BTW. To me it looks like you acted on your own by sending here. IF you had not sent it here, it would have even been a "cheaper shot" because it was a message posted in a place that Dennis would have had no chance to respond to, and the message was CLEARLY directed to him. > On the other hand it could be a lot of other things > too. Like drawing attention to something, namely a > book in this particular instance, that might have gone > unnoticed by those that didn't see the reviews. Or maybe > don't get the MUFON UFO Journal. Yes, maybe that was your motive, but personally, I doubt that. > I don't know, but I wonder about it, now that you > brought it up. Is it worth discussing in depth? I don't know Theresa. This list discusses many things, but I am disturbed to think that you tried to say that I was the reason you sent the message to this list, when clearly as indicated by the timing of the messages, my suggestion had nothing to do with it. That seems a little dishonest to me. Rebecca Search for other documents from or mentioning: xiannekei | tcarlson1 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 13 NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:35:00 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 01:46:36 -0400 Subject: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site' Say SPSR Scientists Date: 97-09-12 19:53:14 EDT From: AOL News SANTA ROSA, Calif., Sept. 12 /PRNewswire/ -- A scientific research organization, whose members have been studying the Cydonia area of Mars for up to twenty years, today praised NASA for its announcement Thursday that NASA's Global Surveyor spacecraft, which arrived at Mars on Thursday, would "definitely" take detailed pictures of the controversial region on the Red Planet. While NASA has downplayed any particular significance to the site on the Northern plains of Mars, the research group, headed by Professor Horace W. Crater of the University of Tennessee Space Institute, has recently published several peer-reviewed scientific papers on the subject. Professor Stanley V. McDaniel of Sonoma State University and spokesman for the Society for Planetary SETI Research (SPSR) said, "Our research has produced evidence that strongly suggests this area may contain ruins of artificial structures." According to McDaniel, separate statistical studies by Crater, imaging expert Dr. Mark J. Carlotto, and archaeologist Dr. James F. Strange of the University of South Florida, have shown a "reasonably high probability" in favor of some of the objects turning out to be artifacts designed by intelligent beings. Among the controversial objects is the famous "Face on Mars." Although often a subject of ridicule, this object has been carefully analyzed by SPSR scientists and found to contain a remarkable symmetry and a wealth of detail that make it hard to dismiss as an accidental formation, McDaniel said. He stressed that the researchers' interests are not especially focused on the so-called "Face," but rather on several sharply angled features in the surrounding terrain that are difficult to explain in purely geological terms. "We are looking forward to the American public getting same-day release of high-quality Cydonia images as soon as Surveyor can take them," said McDaniel. "Our major concern," he continued, "is to ensure that NASA will photograph the entire Cydonia area, not just the 'Face,' with the intermediate resolution capability of the camera." He stated that the intermediate resolution, five times better than that of the existing Viking spacecraft images taken in 1976, could take continuous images of a long strip of terrain and thus increase the chances of obtaining photos of the most important objects. In contrast, a single high resolution photo of the 'Face' alone may be far more difficult to obtain. However, the Camera contractor, Dr. Michael Malin, has indicated that he will attempt to photograph the tiny Pathfinder Lander. If this can be done, he should be able to use this capability to provide equally detailed images of several of the controversial objects at Cydonia, McDaniel stated. "This would be the frosting on the cake," he said. "With this level of resolution, we could probably know conclusively whether there are ancient structures on Mars." Scientists at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory expect photographic reconnaissance of the planet to begin next March. CO: Society for Planetary SETI Research ST: Illinois IN: SU:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 13 'Ghost Rockets' over Iceland and Greenland? From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:39:14 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 01:54:30 -0400 Subject: 'Ghost Rockets' over Iceland and Greenland? We have already ask our Swedish colleagues this question, but maybe other know the answer. Was there any 1946 "ghost rocket" activity in Iceland and Greenland? Also, in the Faeroe Islands, the other northern islands and Spitzenberg? (BTW General Doolittle stopped off in Iceland on his way back from Sweden in 1946. Apparently, he discussed aviation topics in Iceland. As my Icelandic vocabulary is only about 200 words, that's what I get from the newspaper story.) There was a small UFO group in Iceland in the late 1950s. There were also a few individuals active there in the 1970s. After that I have no information. Jan Aldrich Project 1947
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 13 Re: Foo-fighters over Greenland? From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:22:23 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 08:07:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Foo-fighters over Greenland? > Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:42:25 > From: "usa.net" <phryman@usa.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: RE: Foo-fighters over Greenland? > >Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:52:18 -0700 > >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Foo-fighters over Greenland? > >THE SAGA UFO REPORT for October 1977, carried an article > >entitled "UFO Crisis over Greenland" by Rufus Drake. A > >sighting report in the article tells of an encounter near > >Thule. A B-17 bomber being ferried to England in 1942 > >encountered "incandescent flying objects" thought to be > >from a German aircraft carrier....of course, there were no > >German aircraft carriers. > ><Snip> > >The Germans did indeed have an aircraft carrier which the > >Soviets towed off after World War II ended. In 1950 a > >newspaper in Berlin claimed that the Soviets were using the > >refloated and refitted aircraft carrier to launch missiles > >over Sweden. Does anyone know the whereabouts of the old > >Graf Zeppelin aircraft carrier in 1950? Was it indeed in > >the Soviet fleet? > >A report to US or Allied intelligence about aircraft operating > >from a possible German aircraft carrier in 1942 would have > >probably caused a sensation. Has anyone seen anything like > >this in naval or aviation histories? I would like to track > >down this very interest report. > >Jan Aldrich > >Project 1947 > Jan, > Here is what I could track down right off the bat about the fate of > the Graf Zepplin. I will do a little more digging when I get a few spare > minutes to see if I can find out anything else. > Graf Zepplin > Built by Duetsche Were, Kiel. Laid down 28 Dec 1936, launched > 8 Dec 1938, suspended at 85-90% complete 5/1940. Work resumed > 3 May 1942, but stopped again 30 Jan 1943. Scuttled 1/1945. > Raised and siezed by the Soviets 1946, departed in tow for > Leningrad 27 Sept 1947 but never arrived; she was probably mined > in route. Other reports indicate she capsized due to an overload > of war booty, or that she reached Leningrad and was later > scrapped, possibly because of mine damage. > Hope This Helps, > Mike Modrow Thanks, Mike, That does help. It makes it very doubtful that the Graf Zeppelin was the source of the "ghost rockets" or any other aerial phenomena over Scandinavia....I had always discounted that report. I will past this on to Anders Liljegern who is currently working on a ghost rocket report in English. Somewhere, years ago I read an account about a German base in western Greenland during the early part of WW II. My memory of this is not too good here: seems that Americans at a weather base made a raid on the Germans and destroyed their supplies forcing the Germans to leave. I think they traded insults over the radio. Anyway, I doubt if a foo-fighter report near Thule could be explained by German aircraft. Jan Aldrich Project 1947
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 13 Wanted ASAP: PhD in Materials Sci. From: XianneKei@aol.com [Rebecca Schatte] Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:52:58 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 08:32:22 -0400 Subject: Wanted ASAP: PhD in Materials Sci. Forwarded Message: From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) To: iufo@world.std.com Date: 97-09-11 18:58:52 EDT Subject: Wanted ASAP: PhD in Materials Sci. to Examine Possible ET Material From: "Derrel" <derrel@holman.net> To: [Lots...] Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 03:45:05 -0500 Derrel Sims, CM.Ht., R.H.A. Director of Physical Investigations F.I.R.S.T.(Fund for Interactive Research & Space Technology) P.O. Box 60944 Houston, Texas 77205 Phone/fax 281 446 3005 My Dear Friends, As you may know, a lot of testing has gone on in regards to the alleged Roswell piece of derbies. Test results are available from USCD, STANFORD, via Charles Evans labs, a private lab in Texas and from a NASA scientist in a double blinded study. The persons performing the particular tests dealing with the isotopic ratios via icp/ms and SIMS equipment show a consistency in isotopic ratios being extraterrestrial in origin. Further testing is still ongoing. We are setting up a site on the WWW that will allow skeptical scientists to do all further work on alleged ET related materials. UFO related scientists will monitor the results and testing and this will be to the benefit of all and keep difficulties from arising in the future. One situation is facing us as we speak. It to this issue I ask for your advise and support. We have been offered a Television special. The persons involved love the content and want to present this in the best light as possible. We have secured the final approval and scripting approval. There will be no debunkers or other "scientists" to come on and attack the findings. We have worked hard to get these agreements. As you may know in Television, this is unheard of. We, at this point need a PhD scientist to come forward and review our material and (if they agree with the data), to make a statement as to the materials Extraterrestrial origins based upon the findings. If the scientists in question, does not agree with the findings, then we would not want them to make a statement against their will. We, and others feel like the evidence warrants a specific statement to this effect. The scientists involved in the past testing do not wish to make a public statement on TV due to papers that are being written and further testing is still ongoing. I will make the test results available to a scientist whom you may recommend to review these documents. Other scientists agree we have a good case, skeptical scientists are scratching their heads. The fact is, for the TV program we need someone in the Chemistry or Physics area to make a statement of fact based on the findings, nothing additional. We are not looking for a person to say this is an alien craft material. My question to you all, is, do you have some person who may be willing to look at the data and give an opinion. If the data is strong enough, would that person go on TV and make that statement. The person would be paid for their professional time to do so, and all their expenses would be taken care of. The catch. We have 8 days to find this person. I would appreciate you rapid attention to this matter and keep this in strictest confidence even as I keep yours. PS I have been hospitalized for minor illness and now my son is in for surgery this week. All is well and I thank you for you swift attention. RSVP ASAP Sincerely yours, Derrel Sims derrel@holman.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 13 'Rods'? From: mdavis@ccsmtp.glycomed.COM (Davis, Michael) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 97 12:16:50 pst Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 08:15:10 -0400 Subject: 'Rods'? This subject may have come up previously, but I must admit that I'm rather intrigued by the so-called 'Rods'. http://www.roswellrods.com/pre.html This site has an extensive collection of photos and video stills of the 'Rods'. I found several photos of particular interest, namely, stills of a fellow sky diving with a 'Rod' seemingly flying several meters away from him. Also a selection of stills that indicate a type of cilia or flagella, the supposed means of locomotion of these creatures/objects. My feeling is that the photos/stills are authentic, i.e. not artifacts of camera manipulation or superimposition. What the 'Rods' actually are ...? I would be most interested in the opinions of the group, particularly Bob Shell or other photographic experts. Thanks, Michael Davis mdavis@glycomed.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 13 Colorado, September 1917 From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:46:24 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 08:18:21 -0400 Subject: Colorado, September 1917 Greetings Mike [Malone? -ebk], Here, as promised, is the 1917 Colorado clipping. Here is a report from the Salida, Colorado DAILY MAIL 7 September 1917, Friday, Page 1. LOOK ONCE! LOOK TWICE! SEE IT? AIRSHIP OR AIRSHIPS SPY US E. C. Newby and Cal Brown motored to Pueblo Sunday to visit the Saldia boys at Camp Gunter, returning yesterday. They decided the boys were all in good spirits but the principal excitment was over the nightly appearance of an unusual light, which is suspected of being a new style of air craft. The light also has been seen in Salida by several people and opinion is divided as to whether it is the Pike's Peak searchlight or a strange flyer. Some of the Salida obsevers say the light is of various hues and appears in different parts of the skies. Some saw the light in two places at the same time, which is a reminder of the sea yarn about the old ship captain who was sitting in a tavern by the seashore drinking with his son. He cautioned his about drinking too much and remarked that it was easy to tell when had too much because objects appeared double. "For instance," said the captain, looking over the bay, "there are two mast yonder. Now, if I should see four masts, I would know it was time form me to stop drinking." "But Father," interrupted the youth. "I see only one mast." Jan Aldrich Project 1947
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 13 Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson] Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 00:22:28 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 08:19:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention List members, Just some more fodder to fuel the theory of the seeding of alien technology into our technology. From "The Timetables of Technology." 1951 - William Shockley, Stanely Morgan, Morgan Sparks, Gordon Teal develop the p-n junction transistor. Western Electric starts commercial production of transistors. 1957 - Gordon Moore and Robert Noyce leave Shockley Semiconductor Lab. when Shockley refuses to allow them to research into silicon transistors. They found Fairchild Semiconductors. 1959 - Jean Hoerni while working at Fairchild Semiconductors makes a flat (planar) transistor with junctions insulated with silicon. Robert Noyce, using this technique, produces an integrated circuit. Transistorized computers go into production by many companies. 1968 - The Burroughs company introduces the first computer using integrated circuits. - Gordon Moore and Robert Noyce leave Fairchild Semiconductors and form Intel Corp. to produce integrated circuits. Who needs Roswell scraps? Just peel open your PC! <g> Drew Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 13 Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson] Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 01:00:56 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 08:21:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention List members http://www.lucent.com/timeline/tline40b.html is a link to Bell Labs (now Lucent Technologies) "Timeline of Invention" for the 1940's where the following can be found. 1947: Transistor Developed as a replacement for vacuum tubes, the tiny device later revolutionizes the entire electronics world. The URL for the Bell Labs Library page is; http://www.bell-labs.com/bllib.html Entering "transistor" at the bottom of the page brings up many more links, including Bell Laboratories People (item #3). Click on the "transistor" link within the text and it takes you to http://www.lucent.com/ideas2/heritage/transistor/ where you can read about history, the inventors, what is it, current uses, etc. Going to; http://www.lucent.com/ideas2/heritage/transistor/history.html ...gives a VERY detailed history of what led up to the invention, and on one of the pages it states; "In 1945, Bell Labs' executive director, Mervin Kelly, boosted Bell Labs semiconductor research by putting together a worldclass team of solid-state physicists." There are many more links inside. Enjoy. Drew Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 13 Shulman, ACC And American Computer Scientists From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 12:16:44 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 08:26:45 -0400 Subject: Shulman, ACC And American Computer Scientists This e-mail contains information found on different parts of the Web. The first piece is on American Computer Company's president Jack Shulman from one of its pages at http://www.compamerica.com/home0.html *** Our Chief Technical Officer (Jack Shulman) invented the innovative design for ODIN=AE, the world's very first Overlapping Windowed Graphical User Interface. ODIN, conceived in 1969, was first demonstrated in late 1973 and early 1974, long before Xerox's Alto Net Star and Dolphin Display Managers. ODIN was the forerunner of today's Windowed operating systems. It had all the basics: overlapping windowed viewing areas, graphical, text and mixed mode editing pads, processor threaded streams, hypertextual links, and programmable interface. It was originally written for the UNIX=AE operating system, later for computers running the BASIC language, like the Wang 2200. ODIN captivated the mind's eye and nearly the entire computer world in 1974 and 1975 when a commercial package using its advanced display concepts was first demonstrated to the public. The first commercially successful windowing system was adapted for Citibank, NA in a product called the "Federal Funds Trading System". Its powerful ability to simultaneously display automated money position, trading slips with correspondent banks and clearing houses, and engage in real time update of monetary placements with the Federal Reserve System opened up a new dimension in desktop application computers. Its designer went on to expand his consulting and computer design business and, over the past two decades, it became American Computer Company. The World's First WINDOWs on a Personal Computer but the machines weren't personal enough. Jack Shulman was haunted by the performance demands of advanced graphical user interfaces, he devised several families of desktop computers and CAD/CAM workstations during the latter part of the 70's and early 80's, including the Genius Workstation and the Garment Design Computer. The GDC's design was integrated by IBM Corporation but being very costly, a streamlined version without many of the systems features was introduced as the PC and the PC Jr in 1981. The PC gave way to the PC/AT which closely resembled the GDC, and subsequent technological advances such as MCA, VESA and PCI have heralded a desktop computer, today's Pentium PC, which have just begun to equal American's original designs of 1979 and 1980. Since that time, American was instrumental in designing 32, 64, and 96 bit wide memory architectures. These new concepts were used by the major semiconductor manufacturers (today's Pentium, for instance, uses 32 and 64 bit wide data transfer architecture and can support in the future, 128 and 256 bit wide bus technology with only minor modification - each doubling of bus width provides for a possible reduction by 1/2 of one of the characteristic limitations of Turing Architecture computers - transfer bus capacity). To achieve even greater performance, our chief scientist designed advanced servers that used massive parallelism in the late 70's, during the 80's and into the 90's. An advocate of the power of parallel and "mas par" (massively parallel) processing, his designs use advanced parallelism to ensure that no delays occur during events that must occur concurrently. During that time period, the scientific founder also designed advanced deskside and desktop workstations under contract. Two of his designs were licensed by venture capital firms to Apollo Computer, and Sun Microsystems. A development effort intended originally for IBM as the "office of the future" yielded another design which was later licensed and resold by Apple Computer. These advanced design concepts were based on desktop systems extended into cooperative networks (today's "workgroups"). The technical studies he performed described and defined architectures which derived benefit from the capabilities of microprocessors which combine the features of Reduced Instruction Set, and Complex Instruction Set, RISC and CISC computing. The machine designs reflect the need for advanced Pipelining, multi-directional, multi-dimensional shared transfer buffers and new parallel and multi-processor architectures. Our Pentium notebooks have been in the marketplace since 1992. Most companies just started building Pentium laptops in 1995. Our advanced position in technology enables us to field prove a product BEFORE you buy it - and ensures that what you purchase from American Computer won't be obsolete when you first purchase it. To quote Bill Gates of the Microsoft Corporation, a "quiet revolution in computing" took place in the 80's and 90's, one which has displaced the central mainframe and which has moved into our homes, our schools, our offices and our industry, making more jobs more enjoyable, and improving our abilities, without depriving us of our will or our intelligence. American Computer is proud to have aboard one of the original silent partners in the revolution. American today delivers Pentium II systems based on single, dual and soon, quad CPU designs. And at our Lookout Mountain Development Center, hidden away near the Watchung Mountains of middle New Jersey, American Computer is devising an entirely new future systems architecture, code named "ShadowLake", was announced late in 1996. *** Shulman is chairman and one of the co-founders of the American Computer Scientists Association. The following is a quote from one of its webpages at: http://www.acsa2000.net/labfaq.html *** Founder: Jack A. Shulman Shulman is the inventor of, among other things, ODIN -- the first "overlapping windowed" display manager for desktop computing -- completed in 1974. Originally designed for sale to Vydec Corporation, the office automation company of Exxon Corporation, which declined to purchase the product when it was complete, ODIN was commercialized in several versions including one for Citibank, N.A., and one for a major software project company in NYC. In the late 70's Jack designed CAD/CAM and desktop computer systems for manufacturing and the office, including one of the forerunners of the IBM PC-AT in whose future he played a long term design planning role, as well. Jack is also the original inventor of the massively parallel systolic hypersystem (MPSH) also known as the "Cognition, Abstraction, Inference, Induction Machine" - a connection machine called PROTEUS - which in 1984 caused considerable controversy in its day because of its potential for application in the amplification of human intellectual capability. Versions of his MPSH designs (P/1, P/2, P/3 and P/4) have found their way into products manufactured by IBM Corporation, Sarnoff Research, Symbolics Inc./Natural Intelligence Corporation and Thinking Machines Corporation. Others, P/5 through P/15 are the subject of other research, elsewhere. In addition to his other responsibilities, Jack is the head of the Sentient Machine Project (SMP) Laboratory and has agreed to license limited use of the design "P/16" to the Lab. On his own, Jack is also perfecting a design known as "P/18". Engaged in ongoing research in the application of advanced computation systems in high energy physics/aerospace and abstract mathematics, Jack is actively involved as ACSA's present chairman. *** The page provides some informartion on ACSA's history: *** The American Computer Scientists Association was originally founded in 1989 by former members of the American Computer Association: computer scientists Rogers Maxwell, Jack A. Shulman and Ashim K. Das, along with computer science and technology individuals and companies from the former American Certified Computer Consultants, and the American Certified Computer Scientists Associations. It achieved a 501(c)(3) status preliminary ruling with the IRS in 1993. ACSA will commence its first annual fund raising project in 1996. In the interim the Association has used borrowed space and voluntary labor and has engaged in pro-bono projects and advanced research at the expense of volunteering businesses and personnel. *** And more can be found at http://www.acsa2000.net/1996b2.html with some additional information on Shulman: *** ACSA became a non-profit, charitable research and education organization under IRC 501(c)3 during 1993. Prior thereto, its membership consisted of three organizations: the American Computing Association (formed in 1970), the American Certified Computer Consultants Associations (formed in 1980); and the American Certified Computer Scientists Association (formed in 1990). As a result of becoming a non-profit charitable association, ACSA ceased charging fees for membership in 1994, and made the 58,000 plus computer science and 1800 plus technology company membership life members. Since that time, ACSA has operated without any substantial professional fund raising and has managed to organize research, educational programs, academic programs, public awareness and pro-bono activities without receiving a single dollar of grant or donor moneys. Virtually all ACSA activities are contributory and the officers, trustees and staff are voluntary. Supportive efforts are donated as services, equipment, material or facilities. These donations remain the property of the donor until their use and when expended, the donor receives an acknowledgment certificate for its efforts. This novel approach eliminates administrative errors and costs. Used or new Computer Equipment donated to ACSA is held in escrow and then transferred either to the Museum curator or to a needy educational organization ranging from Public to Private Schools. The UNABOM Award program presently offers a small, symbolic award of $1000 for information leading to the capture of the UNABOM terrorist, money pledged by a trustee's family. Any company interested may post notification of its own reward offerings at the ACSA Gencom Forum and on our bulletin boards, in writing. As ACSA maintained through 1995 no independent budget of its own it was exempt from issuing Public Financial Reports during that time period. ACSA Award Program ACSA issues an Award to several notable individuals and companies each year, usually in May of each year. The nomination committee receives anonymous nominations through the months of December and January and announces its reward in Press statements, and a letter and/or floppy disk containing the inscription of the award by mail to the recipient. Also, the CD Journal of American Computer Science publishes the award winners names and a pr=E9cis about them. These include (past winners are listed): Best Operating System Microsoft (1995) Windows 95 Sun Microsystems (1994) Apple Computer (1993) Microsoft (1992) Windows Digital Equipment (1991) VMS 1996 nominees - AT&T for Plan 9 Microsoft for Windows NT 3.5.1 Sun Microsystems for Solaris PC Best New Computer System or CPU Idea American Computer (1995) American Eagle and Panther with 5 Year Warranty Apple Computer (1994) Power Macintosh Acer Corporation (1994) Power Pentium Digital Equipment Corporation (1993) AlphaCPU Intel Corporation (1993) PentiumCPU; Computer Scientist of the Year: Jack Shulman (1994) "Proteus massive hypersystem (1983) and ODIN Overlapping Windowed Display manager (1974)" as well as for the design of the Garment Design PC for a professor at the Fashion Institute of Technology (1978) later used as the design model for several Personal Computers, and lastly, for the knowledge oriented database manager "Philo" (1994). Unassuming individual whose ideas rocked the computer industry. William Gates (1993) "Enhanced CPM and MITS Basic, resulting in today's MSDOS, Windows and related operating systems environments, office products and language systems." Quite an accomplishment! Nicholas D'B. Katzenbach(1992) "Settled US v. IBM and as IBM Counsel"-- Brought an end to an era of total dominance of all things computing by IBM Corporation, resulting in greater freedom for Computer Scientists, and opportunities for computer businesses. Seen as the leading contributor to the computer industry of his time. 1996 nominees - Garry Kasparov, World Chess Champion for "Advanced Chess" Steven Jobs/Steve Wozniak - jointly for the Apple II and IIe CF Codd for Structured Query Language Jeffrey Denenberg for the Phase Loop Lock Circuit For further information about the above and other activities of ACSA, please write to our offices. ACSA by EMAIL OUR EMAIL ADDRESS: 72662,133 on CompuServe Information Service by INTERNET: 72662.133@compuserve.com =A9 1995, 1996 American Computer Scientists Association Inc. All rights reserved. May not be altered without written permission of the owner. ------------------- ACSA a non-profit New Jersey Corporation and a non-profit charity under IRC 501(c)3 On all matters related to the foregoing paragraph, address all correspondences to: American Computer Scientists Association c/o Daniel Louis Grossman, Esq. 11 Commerce Drive, 3rd Floor Cranford, NJ 07016-3531 ------------------- Office facilities and administrative support for 1996 courtesy of the American Computer Company. Form 10-b-Jan 1996 ------------------- Research & Education: ACSA The Future of Computer Science ... ------------------ Counsel & Agent for ACSA: Law Firm of Daniel Louis Grossman, Esq. 11 Commerce Drive, Third Floor Cranford, New Jersey 07016 (908) 272-4114 (fax) 276-6260 Public Relations for ACSA: Public Relations Consulting Office American Computer Company 6 Commerce Drive, Cranford, New Jersey (908) 272-0016 -- please write attention of: John Schwartz
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 13 Re: Cheap Shots From: Theresa <Tcarlson1@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 09:23:02 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 10:03:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Cheap Shots >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:59:20 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Cheap Shots Rebecca, >Besides, my suggestion that you forward came AFTER you >actually forwarded it, so methinks, you sent it on your own >and without any help from me. I did not say that I sent it BECAUSE you suggested it. Read it again. If you had known I sent it, you wouldn't have suggested that I send it. Or would you? And if you thought it was a cheap shot you wouldn't have suggested that I send it. Or would you? I know that your beef is with me personally, so you can send anything else you want to say to my email and not clutter up the list. Thank you. Regards, Theresa Carlson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 13 Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 09:39:44 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 10:10:14 -0400 Subject: Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site >From: RSchatte@aol.com >Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:35:00 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Fwd: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site' Say SPSR Scientists >Scientists at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory expect >photographic reconnaissance of the planet to begin next >March. Next March?????? Didn't it go into orbit around Mars a couple of days ago?? What's it doing in the meanwhile? Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 13 CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS - Filer's Files #36 From: George Filer <Majorstar@AOL.COM> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:37:26 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 10:16:19 -0400 Subject: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS - Filer's Files #36 Filer's Files #36 MUFON Skywatch Investigations From George A. Filer: MUFON Eastern Director 11 September 1997 Majorstar@aol.com (609) 654-0020 After July slowdown for pilot's vacation, UFO reports have increased for August/September FLORIDA: Ray Pollock -from the Gulf Breeze Research Team writes. " Seems that we may have a flap going here in Gulf Breeze. It started with sightings (some spectacular) on Sunday night (9/7/97) followed by sightings last night (Monday 9/8/97) and then there were significant sightings again tonight (Tuesday 9/9/97). Checks with the Air Force and Navy show there were no flare drops either Sunday or Monday night. We have not checked on Tuesday night as yet, though all that witnessed say they bear no resemblance to flare drops we are familiar with." ----------------- There were also several sightings south of Pensacola at Fort Pickens on August 7, 1997 After all of you left the shoreline Sunday night, Elise and I and Beverly Pilcher and her daughter Lisa and friends, Mark and Anthony, Pat Gerbig, Judy Francour and her daughter Vicki and another unknown couple had very strange experience. Elise and I and Beverly and Lisa and friend Mark were sitting at the table where we were when you left and we heard an owl over in the woods close to 10:00 p.m. , maybe a little before, which called repeatedly. We felt like something was up and about that time, Pat yelled from their vantage point on the boardwalk that there was a red light near Fort Pickens. It was gone before we got to see it, but we ran up on the boardwalk with the others and missed a 2nd sighting on the way, but were witness to five more at very short intervals after we got there. There were a total of seven sightings in all. Of those we witnessed, one was a reddish orange pulsing light low over the Island near the parking lot at entrance to Fort Pickens. Pulsing occurred several times, with movement in between each time. Another red light over Fort Pickens Area. A brief amber light near San Souci apartments. All of the preceding were low on the horizon - maybe 2-4 degrees. Two other sightings just beyond the entrance to Fort Pickens - to the West - that were about 15 degrees up and were huge by comparison with the others. These were massive saucer shaped lights of reddish amber and yellowish color fairly evenly distributed throughout the lighted area of the sighting. From our vantage point on the boardwalk, these covered a diameter of a 50 cent piece at arms length with the 2nd of these being somewhat wider in diameter than the first. Thanks to Ray UFOPOLLGB and ANDROID2U GEORGIA -- State Director John Thompson reports. "Thought I would tell you that I did complete 8/30/97 disc-light case. Since then I have heard first-hand of two others seeing strange lights in the sky. One lady driving on West Point west of LaGrange on 8/28/97 saw a big whitish-yellow light that swoop and fluttered through the cloudless night sky. It was not a searchlight she said. Another on 8/30/97 in LaGrange at the "Callaway Clock Tower" said she saw something similar hovering and it was not the moon. Another said her daughter near Wadley, Alabama in Chambers County saw strange lights that their dogs barked out. She also said cows had been getting out of their pens from these strange lights. (The woman at the clock-tower said birds acted crazy flying everywhere at night to such a point that they wondered if the birds were going to attack them.) Finally, another man said he had two separate groups of people talking about seeing strange lights near LaGrange. Calls to the Troup Sheriffs Dept, the LaGrange Daily News, Randolph County Sheriffs Dept., and Wadley Police Dept. all prove to be negative regarding people making similar reports. The Wadley Police Dept did say helicopters had been spraying for unknown reasons in the daytime. The lady from Chambers County (just south of Randolph, where Wadley is in) said unusual military activity was occurring. She said jets were flying everyday low and that her husband said the "jets were armed." Randolph Sheriffs Dept. said they were from Maxwell Air Force base and they said normal. The women in Chambers said the frequency was not normal. Much, much higher than normal. The lady in Alabama says her daughter will do a report with us. I also will be sending you a photographic case soon.. The case involves a witness of the highest character along with wife and daughter. I have been given the negative and have made copies for Jeff Sainio to analyze. I will also send you two copies with report. I've gotten reports from several people now of seeing strange lights over and near LaGrange during last week. Did 8/30/97 report on luminous disc. Still checking search-light possibility. Also now have confirmation from the GROUND of others seeing strange perfect circles in the sky near LaGrange in June a that pilot talked about in 7/20/97 UFO Roundup. The witness said him and about 10 others saw two perfect circles through dark clouds with light shining down near dusk. They watched holes and lights for about ten minutes before losing interest. Witness said he had never seen anything like this before. They were on east side of LaGrange and the holes he said seemed to be over LaGrange. Georgia not only has numerous UFO reports, but John Thompson the MUFON State Director asks? "What did you think of my Big Bird reports. I can tell you nobody raised these babies. Also all the witnesses--including my son--are country folk who have had long experience with eagles, hawks, buzzards, and turkeys. All of them remain adamant after seeing these birds many times since their BB reports that the "birds" they saw were double the size of any of these creatures. I just talked to another man in my office that says where the old Beryl mines are (south Troup county) that before the mines closed they had the Sheriff out there all the time with reports of spooks and strange creatures. He said that doors would be found tore off trucks out there and long 4 inch strands of black hair would be found after these attacks. It go so bad that the people that oversaw the mine wouldn't live there anymore! A brand new 8 room house rotted because no one would live there. He says this probably still goes on now but the whole thing has been abandoned for 20 years or more. The police, by-the-way, always thought bears or vandalism. He says not so. He gave me names of some still living that might know more. I'm sure you know that Ellen Crystal says Pine Bush, NY has visits because of beryl there. Beryl is the mineral for beryllium which is used to make metals more resistant to heat; as in heat shields for entering and reentering our atmosphere from space. Also used in nuclear warheads." Thanks to John Thompson ISUR and MUFON State Director. NEW JERSEY Karin reports: "I just came back from vacation at Beach Haven, where I had a sighting along with two other witnesses.(my father and husband.) We were renting a house right on the ocean, it was Saturday the 23rd of August. At about 10:30 p.m. we were sitting on the deck facing the ocean(a clear night) when my dad and my husband both spotted something at the same time. Something came flying in from the east at a fast speed and it was driving like a drunk driver, going back and forth from left to right then made a quick turn north and was gone . The object looked to be of a circular shape with dim sort of yellowish lights, no noise was heard but whether this was because the object made no noise or because the ocean drowned it out we don't know, the sighting lasted only a matter of seconds. My dad who is retired military said he never saw anything like it, and my husband who is skeptical about UFOs, sat outside for another two hours that night hoping to see it again. Thanks to Karin Guan. NEW YORK We have a report of a triangular shaped object seen on 7/31/97 at 9:00 p.m. by a witness traveling east on Hempstead Turnpike on Long Island. The witness spotted the triangle with approximately eight steady white lights, 3 on each side, one in the middle and one at the point or apex of the triangle. The object appeared to hover as seen from the car window. It looked slightly larger than a small plane and moved away slowly to the north or northwest.. Thanks to SAL (SALGMARS) CONNECTICUT Mark Cashman has sent the following letter to Annastasia Wietrzychowska MUFON State Director. I have essentially completed my investigation into my sighting on August 19, 1997. I have been very reluctantly forced to declare it a possible unknown. I have been unable to identify any civilian or military aircraft either in the area or with the necessary characteristics. Ultralight pilots I have consulted indicate that the flight would have been suicidal, and in any event, no such formation would have been flown by ultralights, and they would not have been able to maintain it. I was able to perform triangulation and to lay out a flight path on the map. These results indicate a dimension on the order of 20', a speed of 25 mph and an altitude of 1200 - 1300 feet. At this point, I am out of leads.) Under normal circumstances, I believe that an investigator should not investigate his own sighting. If I had not been so convinced this had a conventional solution, I probably would not have gone so far on my own. At this point, I would have no problem with having another MUFON investigator check my work, and do whatever might be appropriate. Of course, this sighting is of no major evidentiary value, so it may not be a good place to deploy resources. Thanks to Mark Cashman at mcashman@ix.netcom.com and Annastasia(mufonct@aol.com NEW HAMPSHIRE Astronaut Gordon Cooper, will speak at the New Hampshire MUFON State Conference in Portsmouth on Sunday on 14 September. Please contact NH State Director Peter Geremia, 603 436-9283 for details. SPACE MANEUVER VEHICLE LOS ANGELES: AP - It's made of the same stuff as golf clubs, shaped like a cigar, and reusable. It's the Space Maneuver Vehicle - the future of Air Force reconnaissance. The pilotless vehicle could stay in orbit for a year and land on its own. It's one of a number of programs that will define the way the Air Force operates in the next century. said Mike Matthews, a spokesman for Boeing's Space and Missile Systems Sector in Seal Beach, Calif. THE AIR FORCE and the Boeing Co. designed the craft to perform reconnaissance and put small satellites into orbit. The military says it will give it more flexibility in gathering intelligence. The prototype unveiled Wednesday was developed under a $5.3 million contract by Boeing and the Air Force's Phillips Laboratory in Albuquerque, N.M. The cigar-shaped craft with stubby wings is made of graphite, epoxy and aluminum. It is 22 feet long and weighs 2,500 pounds. The final version of the vehicle will be slightly larger and could be launched into orbit into orbit from a by rocket or a space shuttle, carrying a 1,200-pound payload. "These would essentially be flyable satellites," said Rich Garcia, a spokesman for Phillips Laboratory. Initial flight tests were scheduled to begin in November at Holliman Air Force Base in New Mexico. The craft will be dropped from a helicopter at 10,000 feet, perform gliding maneuvers and land under its own power. Planned test flights in space and tests of military applications have not been funded. The project is related to the military space plane program, which involves the development of a larger craft that would take off and fly into orbit without the assistance of a booster rocket. Last week, the Air Force awarded contracts to Lockheed Martin and Boeing to submit concept designs for the plane, which could be used to deploy the Space Maneuver Vehicle. c 1997 Associated Press. All rights reserved. Thanks to: Jim Hickman <jhickman@itlnet.net and Skywatch International> F-22A Last week, the Lockheed Martin Company announced the first successful test flight of its F-22A aircraft from its plant at Marietta, Georgia. (Dobbins ARB) The air craft does not appear to be a radical new design, but rather a logical modernization of the F-15. It will be the new air-superiority fighter for the Air Force for well into the next century. It will also have provision for ground attack capability. The aircraft is powered by two Pratt & Whitney F119-PW turbofans each in the 35,000lb. thrust class. Dimensions are wing span of 44 feet 6 inches, length 62 feet and a height of 16 feet 7 inches. Its performance is listed as 900+mph, with a ceiling above 50,000 feet. It has two vertical stabilizers that protrude out from the fuselage at a roughly 45 degree angle. Two prototype YF-22s have been flying since 1990. The swept wings and twin tails should prevent it from being confused with triangular or disc UFOs MARS On Thursday evening, September 11, 1997,-NASA's Mars Surveyor, went into orbit around the Red Planet - NASA announced that images would not be available until March. Mars Pathfinder -images were available within a few hours after landing on the planet. I wonder why it take months to handle these images?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 13 Re: American Computer Company continued From: "WHITE" <mjawhite@digitaldune.net> [John White] Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 07:07:17 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 10:33:01 -0400 Subject: Re: American Computer Company continued > Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:32:24 +0200 (MET DST) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> > Subject: Re: American Computer Company continued Henny wrote: > [ silicon is one of the materials of which transistors can be > made. It is now used for most computer chips. > I don't know the function of boron in creating transistors ] Hello folks: (x-ref to Corso's transistor allegations.) Boron's function in creating transistors is that it can be used as a "doping" agent for silicon, i.e., to create conductive impurities. Quote: "Certain types of impurities and imperfections drastically affect the electrical properties of a semiconductor. The addition of boron to silicon in the proportion of 1 boron atom to 10 [to the 5th] silicon atoms increases the conductivity of pure silicon by a factor of 10 [to the 3rd] at room temperature. In a compound semiconductor a stoichiometric deficiency of one constitutient will act as an impurity; such semiconductors are known as "deficit semiconductors" (see problem 6). The deliberate addition of impurities to a semiconductor is called "doping." Charles Kittel's textbook "Introduction to Solid State Physics," Fourth Edition, (1971), Chapter 11, "Semiconductor Crystals," page 372. As luck?? would have it, there is no "problem 6" in the textbook; they stop after problem 5. However, the bibliography for the chapter sets forth "For an excellent selective bibliography see P. Handler, "Resource letter, Scr-1 on semiconductors," Am.J.Phys. 32, 329 (1964). I don't know if its available, (the Am.J.Phys. site which lists resource letters doesn't make it clear that it is available) but I am tracking it down and will post it (or where it can be obtained) as soon as I've located it. P.S. To the list: The accuracy of Corso's allegations re: transistor technology derived from a crashed UFO is not at stake here. Boron impurities in pure silicon crystals for purposes of enhancing electrical conductivity is, no doubt, the same across the universe. There is nothing at all inconsistent in understanding physical theory and finding that someone else has used it for the same purpose. The issue, in my mind, is to develop enough background material to determine whether the invention of the transistor was more akin to an "Aha, so that's how this stuff works," (Corso's allegation coupled with the then existing knowledge) than an "Aha, I knew I could do it," (Shockley's team at Bell Labs.) The physics of semiconductor crystals and the nature of adding impurities was not a particularly new idea to anyone in those years, but the execution of a concept is another matter altogether; there is nothing inconsistent between Corso's allegations and the fact that the theory may have been well-understood. Indeed, my interest is heightened because Corso's allegations do present an opportunity to actually test his statements. Clear historical, experimental, one-off, precursor designs, etc., i.e., propositional evidence, will either emerge to disprove his statements, or it won't. And if it doesn't emerge, then Corso's statements cannot be said to be disproved by objective, reliable, fact. Although this certainly would not translate into a complete affirmation of his allegations, it would lead us to posit that his statements are increased in their reliability and not decreased. Thanks to all of you, and particularly those tracking this thread. John White
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 13 Re: A New Question about Witness Anonymity From: pwedel <pwedel@neptune.on.ca> [Paul Wedel Date: Sat, 13 Sep 97 11:04:23 -0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 20:44:56 -0400 Subject: Re: A New Question about Witness Anonymity >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:55:27 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: A New Question about Witness Anonymity >Greetings List Members and Our Esteemed Moderator/Owner: <snip> >The subject of abductee anonymity is an important one and I >agree that abductee's should have anonymity, if they so >choose. I don't want to debate when they give up their >anonymity, as we have been there, done that. <snip> >John Velez, from time to time, signs his posts "Union Rep." I'm >not a big fan of unions, but I do believe it is time for some >of the myths and fallacies of abduction research to be put to >bed. Maybe it's time for an abductee's union. A place where >abductees could get responsible information on their rights. >I think a clearing house should be established where complaints >about abuses could be filed and investigated. Maybe that's a witch >hunt, I don't know. >Rebecca Hi Rebecca, You make some very good points and I for one think it is a good idea. Implementation of course would be very difficult. Something certainly needs to be put in place to protect abductee's/contactee's from the ravages of savages in this business. I'm sure Johnny V. has lot's of spare time <heehaw> to handle 328 new email messages a day. I nominate him. (See what trouble you can get yourself into signing such names to your messages John?) You have no idea the questions/suggestions I get about 'twigman'. With all due seriousness and respect to the suggestion at hand, we have clearly seen how easily people can affect the lives of those that have been exposed to such incredible events, and also seen a lack of respect for their statements afterwards. Putting some type of mechanism in place to protect such witnesses seems like not just a good idea, but does it not suprise us that it doesn't exist already? By no means to put down researchers whom I have consistently seen respect the privacy of witnesses, but there are always bad apples in a barrel. Perhaps researchers themselves could put such a mechanism in place to reassure witnesses of their safety. I am not sure that people understand what ferocity they may be facing if they were to violate the life of an experiencer who might then loose their job, yet more friends, finding themselves backed into a corner with nothing left to live for. Some witnesses have very good jobs, make a lot of money and would have the resources to be paying their offenders a personal visit. Not a pleasant thought for a researcher getting a visit from a person on the verge of a breakdown who feel's violated by them. Should we ask abductee's/contactee's to add to their responsiblilities the instigation of a standards organization to monitor those people who have taken it upon themselves to investigate the phenomenon? Or should those investigators take it upon themselves to address this issue and provide a comfort level to encourage witnesses to come forward to them? -- I ask this sincerely and without bias either way. Certainly work from both sides seems appropriate. Let's not forget that people who have been exposed to this phenomenon spend a good deal of initial time just trying to get their lives in order while they reassess their view of the universe. Afterwards it can be a struggle for many of them just to get through a days work. Perhaps not so much from interaction with a non-human intelligence, but from the fear of exposure and ridicule from their fellow mortal's that they may slowly silently go mad while they seek out querilous help from sometimes dubious sources. I hope I havent' drifted here. You make a good point Rebecca. A standards or monitoring organization of some kind that *had* legal recourse (sic.) may be where we are ultimately headed. regards, Paul. (Twigman) !-:-) Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not watching you <G>.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 13 Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 08:42:46 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 20:46:05 -0400 Subject: Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site > Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 09:39:44 -0400 > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >From: RSchatte@aol.com > >Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:35:00 -0400 (EDT) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Fwd: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site' Say SPSR > > Scientists > >Scientists at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory expect > >photographic reconnaissance of the planet to begin next > >March. > Next March?????? Didn't it go into orbit around Mars a couple of days > ago?? > What's it doing in the meanwhile? > Bob Hi Bob, As I understand it, its orbit will at first be highly elliptical, taking it too far (and too close) to the surface for the high volume of regularized mapping photos they wish to acquire. And it will take until about March before its orbit is fully circularized. In the meanwhile, of course, it is taking all kinds of very good pictures, probably including some closer close-up shots of the Cydonia region than we'll get from the later circularized orbit. And that will give them plenty of time to figure out how to handle the coverup. E.g., that will allow them to select inconclusive photos to show to the public first, which will only hint that the Face is a genuine artifact, and then after the impact of that has been absorbed, they could show more definitive ones, etc. That's if they wish to expose this part of the coverup. Otherwise, it could give them time to doctor up the photos in some way. How difficult would it be, Bob, for them to touch up photos of the Cydonia region so as to make it appear that a long-lived dust storm is in that region, blurring out the Face and pyramidal structures? On second thought, though, that would be too risky, as various astronomers might have the telescopic resolving power to notice that no such dust storm existed. Jim Search for other documents from or mentioning: deardorj | 76750.2717 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 13 Airship Over Central America 1917 From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 10:40:37 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 20:47:01 -0400 Subject: Airship Over Central America 1917 Another Airship Account from Dr. Bullard Manchester (New Hampshire) UNION, 23 July 1917 Monday, Page 9. MYSTERIOUS AIR SHIP ALARMS COSTA RICANS SAN JOSE, Costa Rica, July 22.--A mysterious airplane, painted yellow and black, recently has been flying over Costa Rica. Amercian residents express belief that it is a German machine and have advised the Panama canal forces of its presence. + + + + Sightings of mysterious aircraft and dirigibles before World War I are well known. We now have a growing body of reports that happened during the war. Bullard in his article on UFO Waves (in Volume 3 of Clark's UFO Encyclodepia) did not consider sightings after 1916. He lists no waves between 1916 and 1933 (when the "ghost aeroplanes" appear in the Nordic countries). We are just now discovering the extent of the World War I wave. Do the the years from 1916 to 1934 have other waves not yet found? The answer is almost certainly: yes. They will probably appear in what Bullard terms "the narrow distribution" which refers to UFO sighting concentrations over small areas. However, I think his "Pandemic" years of 1908 to 1916 will probably have to be extended one more year into 1917. Jan Aldrich Project 1947
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 13 Re: 'Rods'? From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 13:20:23 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 20:49:23 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? > Date: Fri, 12 Sep 97 12:16:50 pst > From: mdavis@ccsmtp.glycomed.COM (Davis, Michael) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Rods? > My feeling is that > the photos/stills are authentic, i.e. not artifacts of camera > manipulation or superimposition. What the 'Rods' actually are ...? > I would be most interested in the opinions of the group, > particularly Bob Shell or other photographic experts. My non-technically supported opinion is that they are nearby objects - insects - flying past the camera and experiencing sufficient blur that all we see are the "cylindrical" blur of the bodies and the more transparent blur of the rapidly moving wings. Unfortunately, it seems all too easy for those who take these to interpret such blurs as "rods" with "force fields". A simple test would be a camera triangulation, but to the best of my knowledge, the "rods" proponents have not tried this. Such a triangulation would either refute the "rods" as large objects some distance from the camera, or would confirm them. Obviously, the azimuth and elevation of the cameras would need to be measured, the synchronization of camera operation would have to be confirmable, and the objects photographed by the cameras would have to have a similar measurable appearance and dimension. Because of the potential closeness of the objects to the camera, one does need to be aware that the apparent angular velocity could be high, and could corrupt interpretation of the results. However, if the camera azimuths are sufficiently different, this chance is at at least somewhat minimized. It would also be possible to apply a sanity test, by using the resulting distance and the angular size in each photo, and based on that, looking to see if the object were the same estimated length in each photo. Major variations would have to be interpreted as indicating that the two cameras photographed different objects. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 13 Re: Shulman, ACC And American Computer Scientists From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 13:24:56 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 20:50:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Shulman, ACC And American Computer Scientists > From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 12:16:44 +0200 > Subject: Shulman, ACC And American Computer Scientists Association > This e-mail contains information found on different parts of the Web. I would suggest contacting the Association for Computing Machinery, which is the world's oldest and largest computing professional association. They have a web site at http://www.acm.org They should be able to provide an objective assessment of the involvement of this individual in computer research over the years. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 13 Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention From: "WHITE" <mjawhite@digitaldune.net> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 11:10:42 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 21:24:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention > Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:21:31 -0400 > From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Regarding... > >From: "WHITE" <mjawhite@digitaldune.net> [John White] > >Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention > >Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 06:58:23 -0700 > John wrote: > >There is an "in-house" piece written by W. Schockley: "The Theory of > >P-N Junctions in Semiconductors and P-N Junction Transistors" Bell > >System Technical Journal 28:436 (1949), which predates "Electrons and > >Holes" by about two years. > John, > Do you possibly have a copy of this? It's a "must-see" for sure. Jim, not yet. I'm in the process of trying to secure a copy, and will post it as soon as I get it. I am also in the process of obtaining a resource letter on semiconducter research, "Scr-1 Semiconductors," compiled in 1964 by P. Handler. http://www.amherst.edu~aip/hits/reslet.html which is the web site listing resource letters for the American Journal of Physics. (It isn't clear on whether its available, but it's important because Charles Kittel's "Introduction to Solid State Physics" 4th Ed., 1971, p 395, cites it as an important source document in the chapter on Semiconductor Crystals which describes the physics behind doping silicon crystals with things like boron to make the crystal electrically conductive.) But, I will post it also---if I can get it. It turns out that old material is very hard to come by. It also turns out that when describing Shockley/Bardeen/Brattain's Nobel Prize, one is told they won it for their work in semiconductors and their "discovery of the transistor effect." (Not "transistor.") Encyclopeida Britannica Vol. 23, p 671, 1991. An interesting distinguishment. Another post on this list cautions that we should be looking at Integrated Circuits, which is a good point, if I understand the difference between an "effect" and a working model of a transistor which makes use of that effect. John White
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 13 Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site From: Keith <kewyatt@teleport.com> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 11:11:55 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 21:35:05 -0400 Subject: Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site On Sat, 13 Sep 1997, UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: >Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 09:39:44 -0400 >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Next March?????? Didn't it go into orbit around Mars a couple of days >ago?? >What's it doing in the meanwhile? >Bob Well they have to let the Martian's Cover up the cities and explain away that crashed weather ballon to the population. Haven't you ever heard of the prime directive? Off to the Star Trek Acadmey with you! Keith ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "You are alone. Do you think you can go on fighting without us? Have you signed a pact with victory?" " No, we have signed a pact with death!" Leon Trotsky --------------------------------------------------------------------- ! Keith Wyatt PO Box 18357 Salem, OR 97305 503-373-4696 ! ! http://www.teleport.com/~kewyatt Many PGP Links & Info ! ---------------------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 13 DISPATCH #68 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope From: ParaScope@AOL.COM Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 15:54:35 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:35:12 -0400 Subject: DISPATCH #68 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope DISPATCH #68 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope S O M E T H I N G S T R A N G E I S H A P P E N I N G 9/13/97 Quote of the Week "If we look at distant stars, our minds stretch out over astronomical distances to touch these heavenly bodies... If they are both within the mind and outside the body, then the mind must extend beyond the body.'' --"weird science" researcher Rupert Sheldrake seeking to explain the unknown connections between all things in the universe -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Rant of the Week: "Goofy + Hell" Every week we pick the wackiest, scariest, nastiest or funniest rant from the hundreds of letters received by us here at ParaScope headquarters, and present it to you as our Rant of the Week. This week, our old friend and Hall of Fame ranter, "Jerry" writes to us explaining the connection between Disney and Satanism. (As if that needed any explanation!) Enjoy. "Anyone displaying these cartoons are Satanist fighting to achieve Satanic goal. The mission of Disney are Satanic. Mickey Mouse is a rat everyone knows he is SATAN. Here is the web-address Disney got his cartoons from. I found this info doing a search engine on "+hell +Goofy" To find out what the New-Age movement is all about, read Snow White and the seven Dwarfs. Prince charming is the antichrist, and the Queen is a freemason with links to Maitreya and Elmer Fudd. Black helicopters followed me in Disneyland from Magic 'microwave' Mountain to EPCOT (New World Order headquarters)." [Reprinted with spelling and grammar goofs unchanged. Names changed to protect the ranters.] -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Get Your Daily Dose! Now you can get a Daily Dose of quick, fun information every weekday in ParaScope's new Daily Dose feature! Find out what happened today in "parahistory," get a quote of the day, take the daily ParaPoll public opinion poll and read the latest conspiracy news in the daily Conspiracy Newsline. We've gathered the very best of our fresh, daily, interactive content and put it under one great area for you: the Daily Dose. It's new, and you're going to love it! ---------------- The Power to Dream is the Power to Dream the Dream Every night, we all take a brief trip deep into our own subconcious, skirting the world of the paranormal, unexplained and unknown. We sleep. And we dream. Whether we remember our dreams, our mind is exploring a world barely grasped by modern science. Can dreams be prophetic? What about out-of-body experiences? What happens to us while we sleep? Have misunderstood aspects of it led to many supernatural beliefs? Bring a pillow and blanket to the Grassy Knoll chat room on AOL on Monday, September 15 starting at 9 p.m. ET to discuss the mysteries of sleep with your host PSCP Pan. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Coming Up Next Week! Catch all these stories next week on a daily basis on America Online, or all at once next Thursday on the web site! Conspiracy Newsline: All the News That Doesn't Fit If you 're not paranoid by now, you must not be paying attention. Start paying attention and get your daily updates on everything that's out to get you, courtesy of Conspiracy Newsline. Among the topics on the newsline right now: AOL kills mass murder web site; Hawaiian Kingdom researchers arrested for controversial title searches; McLibel defendants appeal verdict; judge rejects bid for new trial in "Fatal Vision" murders; big brother invades the bathroom. ---------------- Magic vs. "Majic": Clues to the MJ-12 Hoax? In December 1984, TV producer and writer Jaime Shandera recieved a package containing the now-infamous "Majestic 12" documents, which supposedly show that a crashed alien spacecraft was recovered from Roswell in 1947. In several previous reports, ParaScope has documented the widely-held belief that these documents are, in fact, forgeries. But the whole story of the MJ-12 hoax has not yet been told. In this ParaScope exclusive, Nebula editor Paul B. Thompson explores the possibility that "Majic" was a deliberate attempt to link the MJ-12 hoax to a real secret group code-named "Magic," which was charged with deciphering the Japanese diplotmatic code machine in 1940. ---------------- Flight to Oblivion In January 1980, a mysterious plane crash killed Louisiana State University football coach Bo Rein. Or at least, it is assumed that he was killed -- because the Cessna carrying the coach was never recovered after it went down off the coast of North Carolina. The Federal Aviation Administration was unable to determine what caused the crash, and it remains completely unexplained. Paul B. Thompson examines a case more baffling than anything to disappear in the over Bermuda Triangle. ---------------- Cuba Arrests Bomb Suspect, Charges U.S. Tie to Terror Campaign During the last six months speculation has raged about who is responsible for a rash of bombings against Cuban tourist targets. This week, in the wake of the first such attack to claim a life, Cuban authorities announced they have one of the perpetrators in custody. According to the Cubans, this man is a former Salvadoran soldier who was once trained in demolitions by the U.S. military -- and now is a paid terrorist in the employ of the Miami-based Cuban American National Foundation. Dossier is digging for the facts, and assembling a comprehensive briefing about this murky situation. ---------------- Fifty Years of the CIA September, 1947: the Central Intelligence Agency is born, tasked with conducting the covert programs of the United States. It's been a half-century since the CIA was formed in the wake of World War II and under the growing chill of the Cold War. In the years that followed, the CIA became notorious around the world, for assassination plots, subversion campaigns, mind control experiments and other hidden abuses But after five decades, what do America's citizens know about an agency that operates in unprecedented secrecy, often without oversight, and with a budget so large and poorly documented that no one knows how much money it spends? ParaScope has gathered together the most comprehensive collection of documents, reports and comentary ever assembled in cyberspace. Check out our exhaustive collection of exclusive material on the Central Intelligence agency and learn perhaps more than you care to know about the 50-year history of this mysterios organization. ---------------- The Diana Conspiracy Ne'er hath the world seen such a spontaneous frenzy of grieving as that which surrounds the death of Princess Diana. And as all good paranoids know, NO ONE dies by accident. Within hours of the news that Diana was dead, conspiracy theories began springing from the fertile ground moistened by the world's tears. After all, Dodi Fayed, who died with Lady Diana, is a cousin of Adnan Khashoggi, the CIA asset who helped Oliver North arrange covert arms sales to Iran. And word has it that Pont de l'Alma, site of Diana's death, was a pagan sacrifical site in pre-Christian times -- tying her death to a deep spectrum of weird occult "coincidences." Even Libyan leader Moamer Kadhafi threw out a conspiracy theory of his own: that British and French secret service agents arranged the "accident" to prevent Diana from "marrying an Arab." Do these allegations have any veracity? Or is it just a slightly more schizoid form of grieving? Is a Diana assassination conspiracy believable, or B.S.? -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing! Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway?Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe yourself from Dispatch: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch That's all there is to it! Likewise, to unsubscribe: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch ---------------------------------------- ParaScope 11288 Ventura Blvd., #904 Studio City, CA 91604 America Online -- keyword: parascope parascope@aol.com World-Wide Web -- http://www.parascope.com info@parascope.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: parascope | listserv |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 13 Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention From: "WHITE" <mjawhite@digitaldune.net> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 14:00:33 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:36:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention > From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson] > Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 01:00:56 -0400 (EDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention > Drew provided excellent Lucent/Bell-Labs websites re: 1947 transistor: > > http://www.lucent.com/timeline/tline40b.html > http://www.bell-labs.com/bllib.html > http://www.lucent.com/ideas2/heritage/transistor/ > http://www.lucent.com/ideas2/heritage/transistor/history.html Other excellent sites: http://www.altavista.digital.com Search: "bell-labs + transistor" Great site: http://ece.unh.edu/faculty/sidney/SDOther.html for Sidney Darlington whose site says that, shortly after they were invented, he obtained working transistors from the director of Bell-Labs, who kept them in his desk drawer, and took them home to work with--and if he and Bell had been advised another way on the "patent," Intel would be paying him and Bell royalties for the chip he developed from working with the transistors. All of the above is interesting material, and it was fairly well-known when Corso wrote his book. Why would he ignore it? In other words, although it is true that the many, many websites, encyclopedias, dictionaries of technical terms, physics textbooks, electrical engineering textbooks, handbooks, etc., merely direct us to good source material on the history of transistors, other than the fact that the materials are old or out of print or just hard to obtain, they are out there somewhere, and someone will get them, review them, and if they are List members, post them. It is hard to fathom why someone with Corso's background would make an allegation which may be checked rather easily for accuracy. (The List members are coming up with more and more information, each piece leading to another.) We presume that military professionals like those with Corso's background don't fib for the fun of it. That they will fib is not unheard of, but there has to be a mighty good reason for it. I would hate to think that he fibbed to make a buck, and I would be even more chagrined to think that the quality of our military mentality was such that a person from that environment offered as an indicator of military thinking an ignorance of the ability of ordinary, every-day folks to check out the accuracy of the allegations. Hubris is a mild word for that. Thank you, Drew, for posting those sites. John White
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 13 Books whose subjects include "UFOs" - Amazon.com From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 18:18:02 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:38:06 -0400 Subject: Books whose subjects include "UFOs" - Amazon.com A new publication Gary > Hello from Amazon.com Books! > As you requested, we are notifying you of new books matching the > following criteria: > subjects include "UFOs" > The new books are listed at the end of this message. If you're > interested in any of these books, you can order them online at > http://www.amazon.com/ . > > Your most humble automated search agent, > Eyes > Amazon.com Books > http://www.amazon.com/ > P.S. Did you know that we can also send you e-mail messages reviewing > books in your favorite genres? Sign up for our free Editors > Personal Notification Service and we'll send you e-mail featuring > the titles that our Editors think are outstanding. > If you'd like to sign up, visit us at > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/subst/editors/editors-signup.html ! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > "Ufo : Evaluating the Evidence" > by > Bill Yenne, Jay Olstad, Jacques Vallee > List: $15.98 -- Our Price: $15.98 > Subject: SCIENCE > Publisher: Smithmark Publisher's > Binding: Hardcover > Expected publication date: September 1, 1997 > ISBN: 0765194023 > URL: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0765194023/e
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 13 Inmann on the Fox 'Special' From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 17:40:42 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:39:48 -0400 Subject: Inmann on the Fox 'Special' Just a few comments about Bobby Ray Inmann's interview on the Fox Special Friday night. In the past I've publicly heard Inmann make a number of plausible denials about specific UFO cases along with maintaining the policy of categorical denial about the subject in general. The first time I saw the special I was drinking a glass of mango juice which I almost choked on when Inmann stated that the UFO's videotaped over Mexico City were probably top secret aircraft deployed to track the flow of narcotics. I don't characteristically point the finger of conspiracy at specific officials but this guy's bullshit was pretty obnoxious. Doubters of Inmann's knowledge of classified UFO information need only to listen to Bob Oechsler's tape recorded conversation with him where Inmann makes reference to recovered alien technology which didn't seem out of context at all. He also stated in the Fox interview that he had received no information that would validate that UFO's were real tangible objects or that our government had somehow accessed them. The guy has only been the Director of the National Security Agency, the Defense Intelligence Agency, and the Deputy Director of the Central Intelligence Agency,...what would HE know? Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 13 Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 From: wlmss@peg.apc.org [Lawrie Williams] Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 11:24:37 +1000 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:50:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 > Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:58:19 -0400 > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Because it uses an open flame, a carbide lantern will cause an explosion > in a methane-filled mine. I doubt you'd want carbide lanterns on > a hydrogen-filled Zeppelin!!!!! > Bob Airship fires now seem to have had little or nothing to do with the inflammability of hydrogen. The catastrophic fires were related to the inflammable skin upon them. A carbide lamp might cause problems in the immediate aftermath of a serious smash, but by then it would make very little difference.... Regarding the scareship mystery, many of the sightings at the turn of the century were in New Zealand where apparently there were no airships of any sort. There were multiple consecutive sightings which kind of rules out hoax or sightings of real airships. > Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:58:09 -0400 > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 13:06:35 -0400 (EDT) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Corso and 'Alien' Transistors > ...I have no doubt that there were UFO crashes prior to the one > at Socorro at the end of May in 1947. I, too, have talked to > sources who have vague information about crashes in 1945 and > possibly earlier. It is also possible that one was downed > during the war in Europe. > But you have to realize that most of us who are doing research > are limited to doing it part time and with limited funds. > To go chasing after such a vague story as you have presented > seems unlikely to be productive. > Bob ALL, I dug in my files and came up with a couple of fragments that might be helpful: BX - - - - - - - - - - - snip snip - - - - - - - - - - - - - Approved: patsogreat From: toddb@wrq.com (Todd Biggs) Alleged UFO Crashes The following list of UFO crashes was compiled by the Phoenix Foundation from numerous sources within the Gemstone Intelligence Network (GIN), an international intelligence organization founded and operated by the Phoenix Foundation. For further information on Phoenix Foundation membership or to receive the organization's newsletter, please contact: The Phoenix Foundation, Research Division, P.O. Box 92008, Nashville, Tennessee 37209. April 17, 1897 - Aurora, Texas A mysterious airship is said to have crashed in this town, exploding into many small fragments. Reportedly, the occupant was child-size and greenish, and the craft contained papers covered with heiroglyphics. The pilot's body is supposed to be buried in the local cemetery. Although the case was widely regarded as a hoax, new investigation brought to light a peculiar alloy that was eventually analyzed by the McDonnell Aircraft Company. Dec. 22, 1909 - Chicago Six years after Kitty Hawk, newspapers from New York to Chicago were astounded by national reports of a huge airship flying across the nation and seen by thousands. It crashed west of Chicago, but was never found. The story was front-page news in the nation's major newspapers. 1933 or 1934 - Ubatuba, Brazil Witnesses on a beach are said to have seen a disc dive and explode, showering the area with silvery fragments of highly pure magnesium. May, 1947 - Spitzbergen, Norway A report by journalist Dorothy Kilgallen stated that British scientists and airmen were excavating the wreckage of a mysterious flying ship. The Swedish military acknowledged its extraterrestrial origin and reported 17 bodies were found. The story appeared as a tiny blip for only one day in the U.S. news media before it was silenced by the military. I personally saw this news story years ago. BX - - - - - - - - - - - - end snip snip start another snip - - - - - - - From: alberto@garnet.berkeley.edu () Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: UFO History I 1/5 Date: 27 Apr 1994 15:07:40 GMT ......deletia.... Subject: UFO History I 1/5 GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT IN THE UFO COVERUP: CHRONOLOGY (based on FOIA Papers and personal testimony) Version 2.09 COPYRIGHT SEPTEMBER 8, 1988 by PEA RESEARCH ULTRA MAJIC BBS, (916)684-5578 ............................................................ (UFOHIST1.TXT Part one) Apr. 17, 1897..Aurora, TX: An airship supposedly crashed into Judge Proctor's (nonexistent) windmill and disgorged the mangled body of a little man believed, for unspecified reasons, to hail from the planet Mars. This (supposedly) turned out to be a publicity stunt for the town, whose population and economy were on the decline. .........deletia..... Jan. 1947...... W.H. (initials) of Yucca Valley, Calif., while still serving in the U.S. Navy, was on leave with C.C.(initials) who was just out of the U.S. army. While they were looking for desert property to buy they came upon the Papagos Indian Reservation, north of the rugged Superstition Mtns. west of Globe, Arizona. While traveling on a dirt trail, they came upon a group of military personnel guarding a crashed saucer half buried in the sand. Description: Disc shaped with a domed top; about 30 ft. diam.; two rings on its outer edge which seemed to have windows between them. There was no evidence of an encampment or heavy equipment. BX - - - - - - - - - - end snips - - - - - - And here are a couple of items I noted that came from the "Readers Digest Book of the Unexplained". I've always felt this to be a "hot" prospect for uncovering another Roswell. There are many mytholgical references to a talented race or races of dwarf living underground in this region. 1942 April. Dr Heinz Fisher travels to Rugen in the Baltic with radar equipment for Germany. 1942 August 13-14 In London an unprecedented burst of cosmic rays is detected. Nothing can account for it. (Nature 151:308-09) I hope some item in this collection might help to narrow the search. Lawrie Williams________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 14 Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 00:06:25 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 00:18:13 -0400 Subject: Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/13/97 8:46 PM: > Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 08:42:46 -0700 (PDT) > From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site > In the meanwhile, of course, it is taking all kinds of very good pictures, > probably including some closer close-up shots of the Cydonia region than > we'll get from the later circularized orbit. And that will give them > plenty of time to figure out how to handle the coverup. E.g., that will > allow them to select inconclusive photos to show to the public first, > which will only hint that the Face is a genuine artifact, and then after > the impact of that has been absorbed, they could show more definitive > ones, etc. That's if they wish to expose this part of the coverup. > Otherwise, it could give them time to doctor up the photos in some way. The problem with this kind of "reasoning" is that it a priori assumes that the Face is an artifact, and that there is a conspiracy. In the event that the Face actually is not a remnant of an alien civilization, then this kind of "reasoning" will be used to show that it must be an alien artifact anyway. The problem is that the only answer that would be acceptable to a person holding this view would be NASA confirming the Face as an alien artifact. If they do, they're right. If they don't, they're lying. It's not a very scientific approach to the problem. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 14 Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson] Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 00:18:02 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 00:35:12 -0400 Subject: Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site >Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 08:42:46 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site >> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 09:39:44 -0400 >> From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >> Subject: UFO UpDate: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> >From: RSchatte@aol.com >> >Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:35:00 -0400 (EDT) >> >To: updates@globalserve.net >> >Subject: Fwd: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site' Say SPSR >> > Scientists >> >Scientists at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory expect >> >photographic reconnaissance of the planet to begin next >> >March. >> Next March?????? Didn't it go into orbit around Mars a couple of days >> ago?? >> What's it doing in the meanwhile? >> Bob >Hi Bob, >As I understand it, its orbit will at first be highly elliptical, taking >it too far (and too close) to the surface for the high volume of >regularized mapping photos they wish to acquire. And it will take until >about March before its orbit is fully circularized. This is because it is dipping into the thin Martian atmosphere to decelerate itself. This saved them from carrying lots of fuel to slow it down. >In the meanwhile, of course, it is taking all kinds of very good pictures, >probably including some closer close-up shots of the Cydonia region than >we'll get from the later circularized orbit. And that will give them >plenty of time to figure out how to handle the coverup. E.g., that will >allow them to select inconclusive photos to show to the public first, >which will only hint that the Face is a genuine artifact, and then after >the impact of that has been absorbed, they could show more definitive >ones, etc. That's if they wish to expose this part of the coverup. >Otherwise, it could give them time to doctor up the photos in some way. >How difficult would it be, Bob, for them to touch up photos of the Cydonia >region so as to make it appear that a long-lived dust storm is in that >region, blurring out the Face and pyramidal structures? On second >thought, though, that would be too risky, as various astronomers might >have the telescopic resolving power to notice that no such dust storm >existed. > Jim The cover-up conspiracy has already started. How predictable! Why bother photographing it at all, Jim? Even if they are being completely honest when and if it is found to be nothing unusual, the believers will shout...COVER-UP! So I don't see the point in imaging it at all, because there are those who will never be satisfied unless their pre-conceived notions are proved correct. Drew Williamson Search for other documents from or mentioning: werd | deardorj |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 14 Re: Inmann on the Fox 'Special' From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 01:39:54 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 03:03:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Inmann on the Fox 'Special' > Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 17:40:42 -0700 > From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) > To: Updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Inmann on the Fox special > Doubters of Inmann's knowledge of classified UFO information need only > to listen to Bob Oechsler's tape recorded conversation with him where > Inmann makes reference to recovered alien technology which didn't seem > out of context at all. Can't agree with you on that one. It seems pretty clear than Oechsler was speaking in vague and general terms which could easily have been attributed to a number of things, including recovery of Soviet submarine technology. Inman seemed to be trying to be helpful, but made no references which were unambiguous. Oechsler never once openly referred to "alien technology" in any of the material I read that transcribed that conversation. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 14 Re: Inmann on the Fox 'Special' From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 03:03:48 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 03:03:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Inmann on the Fox 'Special' Sigh..... Here we go again. > Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 17:40:42 -0700 > From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) > To: Updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Inmann on the Fox special > Doubters of Inmann's knowledge of classified UFO information need only > to listen to Bob Oechsler's tape recorded conversation with him where > Inmann makes reference to recovered alien technology which didn't seem > out of context at all. Jared, Below is an excerpt concerning Oechsler & Admiral Bobby Ray Inman - if you'd like the complete review drop me a line. ebk A REVIEW OF 'ALIEN LIAISON' : TIMOTHY GOOD ------------------------------------------ By: Armen Victorian August 1991 CHAPTER 10 - COSMIC JOURNEY --------------------------- Good begins this chapter by introducing Admiral Bobby Ray Inman. From there he refers to Oechsler's brief encounter with Admiral Inman, (May 13, 1988, on the grounds of the Science and Technology Center of University of Maryland). Apparently Oechsler, after introducing himself, gave his business card to Admiral Inman, saying "I would be grateful if at some point you might have someone contact me about how I can get closer to MJ12". (See UFO Magazine 'UFO Secret Team? - 'Control Factor' Stymies Ufology' by Vicki Cooper), Good then quotes extracts of Oechsler's telephone conversation with Admiral Inman (The telephone conversation had taken place at 8AM, July 20, 1989. At that time Good was staying with Oechsler - the complete text of this telephone conversation, which included Oechsler's speculation, was faxed to me by Oechsler. The published lines in the book, are somewhat taken out of context. According to Oechsler and Good, they represent the fact that Admiral Inman is heavily involved with the UFO subject and its cover up. One particular question by Oechsler, and Admiral Inman's answer (printed in italics, page 191), has allowed the imagination of both Good and Oechsler to fly wild and loose. Bob Oechsler: "Do you anticipate that any of the recovered vehicles would ever become available for technological research?" Admiral Inman: "Again, I honestly don't know. Ten years ago the answer would have been no. Whether, as time has evolved, they are beginning to become more open on it, there's a possibility. Again Mr. Hineman [retired Deputy Director of Science and Technology Division, CIA] probably would be the best person to put that kind of question to...". Not once is there a single specific reference to the subject of UFOs in the entire text of the telephone conversation. Good, by deliberately not publishing Admiral Inman's letter of Dec. 18, 1989, (see bellow), has twisted the facts, giving a totally fabricated version of the truth. Quote: Dear Mr. Good, Just a short note to thank you for your letters of 17 November and 7 December 1989, and the copy of Admiral Lord Hill-Norton's letter to you. I did receive your book and appreciate your thoughtfulness for sending it. I look forward to reading it in the weeks ahead. Unfortunately, I do not know any information which could be of assistance to you for your UFO report. I would like to take this opportunity to wish you success in your findings. Please pass my very best wishes to Admiral Lord Hill-Norton when you have the opportunity. Sincerely, [Signed] B. R. Inman". After receiving a transcript of that tape-recorded telephone conversation from Oechsler, I asked him if anyone else but Good had listened to that tape. He gave me the name of a Mr. John Dingley. On 14 July 1991, I telephoned Mr. Dingley and asked him whether he had listened to the taped telephone conversation between Admiral Inman and Oechsler. He confirmed that he had listened to the tape and I asked him if the subject of UFOs was mentioned during the course of the conversation? He answered "No". By then I had already written to Admiral Inman, enclosing the pages of the book where he had been mentioned, and asking him for clarification. On 26 July 1991, I received the following letter from Admiral Inman. [Quote] I received your letter of July 1st concerning Timothy Good's book Alien Liaison. I believe all these allegations to be false. Concerning your comments on a group of scientists called MJ12, I have no such awareness and do not believe such a group exists. [Author's note: I deliberately included the MJ12 issue in my letter to him, because Oechsler claims that it was the main lead in.] In summary, the book is filled with fabrication and distortions. My conclusion from the pages I have seen is that the book is without any merit. Signed: B. R. Inman." [Quote ends] After receiving Admiral Inman's letter, I phoned Admiral Lord Hill-Norton on 1 Aug. 1991 and read him Admiral Inman's letter to me and asked what he thought about it. His reply was that what Inman was saying was absurd and that he why he made those comments to Oechsler should be clarified. He added that Inman was covering up, and he was sticking to his comments that, either Inman should shut up or put up with it. (Taped telephone conversation). I was not satisfied by what Admiral Lord Hill-Norton had told me. He gave me the distinct impression of believing everything Tim Good tells him, or gives him to read, and due to some passing comments he made in that regard, I decided to get back to Admiral Inman. From another letter to Admiral Inman, which I faxed to his office, 2 Aug. 1991: [Quote] "As an objective researcher trying to establish the intentions of each party involved in the course of these events, which gave "enough confidence" to the author of the above mentioned book (T. Good), and his assistant Mr. Bob Oechsler, in compiling, studying and editing the data, which he thought to be accurate, there remain a few areas which would require an ultimate clarification by you. What did you think Bob Oechsler was inquiring about? It is still obscure what your understanding was about the topic of the conversation? Perhaps I should add that Bob Oechsler maintains that in his initial approach to you, when he gave you his card, he mentioned to you clearly and briefly that he required your assistance in contacting a member/members of the MJ12. He maintains that you accepted his card, and in a cordial manner "Okayed" it". [End quote] I enclosed a copy of my letter to Admiral Inman with the following covering letter, dated 5 August, 1991 and sent them to Admiral Lord Hill-Norton. [Quote] Dear sir, Enclosed are the two letters I discussed about. There are certainly areas of serious flaws in the manner by which the "data" has been presented by the re-presenters on the main characters in Chapter 10 of the book, "Alien Liaison". It is no secret, which concerns myself and the dignified high ranking officers, whose names have been mentioned, but the truthfulness and exact, factual representation seems to bear some serious questions. Although, by writing my last letter to Admiral Inman, I have tried to ask him to clarify the grey areas, the seriousness of the issue referred to in my previous paragraph over-rules such a request. Signed-Author. _____________________________________________________________________ On 6 August 1991, I received a reply from Admiral Inman, dated 5 Aug. 1991, which I reproduce here in its entirety: Dear Dr. Victorian, In response to the request in your letter dated 2 August 1991 for an "ultimate clarification" by me re Mr. Oechsler, I provide the following: a. I receive hundreds of calling cards each year from individuals who approach me at public appearances. I have no specific recollection of the receipt of a calling card from Mr. Oechsler prior to our telephone conversation. b. I have never heard of any organization called MJ12 nor did I have any understanding from Mr. Oechsler about his seeking information on a specific organization. His use of Admiral Lord Hill-Norton's name was the principal factor in my having a conversation at all with Mr. Oechsler. c. Having no prior knowledge of Mr. Oechsler's interest, I did not understand until well into his dialogue that his research was about Unidentified Flying Objects. d. Throughout 22 years of service in intelligence community, I have never encountered any credible evidence of the existence of extraterrestrial or interplanetary entities, individuals, crafts, vehicles, or persons. I do not believe any credible evidence of such activity exists. I have been advised by Rear Admiral Shapiro that Mr. Oechsler totally misrepresented both the nature and content of their conversation. I remain persuaded that complete misrepresentation of my views and those of Rear Admiral Shapiro has occurred and thus I distrust any and all stories and conclusions that have been conveyed. I hope you will entertain no further doubts about my views. Sincerely, [signed] B. R. Inman After the receipt of the above letter, there was still one clause which required yet further clarification by Admiral Inman. The word "dialogue", could have a broad interpretation. I needed to know what precisely Admiral Inman meant by that. On August 12, 1991 I contacted Admiral Inman's office, and I spoke to Mr. Tom King, the Executive Assistant to Admiral Inman. I explained to him the nature of my inquiry, asking him for further clarification by Admiral Inman. I was asked to contact him the following day. On August 13, 1991, I was told by Mr. Tom King, that I can go on the record with what he was told by Admiral Inman. In response to my inquiry, Mr. King said: "What Admiral Inman meant in clause (C) of his last letter to you (5AUG. 1991), is that, only after Mr. Oechsler had spoken with Rear Admiral Shapiro, in pursuit of his inquiry, had it become clear to Admiral Inman, through Rear Admiral Shapiro, that Mr. Oechsler's inquiry was about UFOs. Admiral Inman had absolutely no prior knowledge of the topic of Mr. Oechsler inquiry before that." I had already contacted Rear Admiral Sumner Shapiro (Retired, ONI Director) on August 3, 1991 and I asked Rear Admiral Shapiro whether he met Bob Oechsler. He replied "He claims to have met me". I repeated my question. He answered; "He met me on one occasion and I realized that he was a fraud. He had arranged a meeting with me under fraudulent circumstances, and I dismissed him almost immediately. I never had a meeting with him in a restaurant...." [See p. 195, where Oechsler alleges that he met with Rear Admiral Shapiro for the first time in a restaurant] ".....as he is suggesting in that book. I never discussed any of that material with him." I then asked Rear Admiral Shapiro what Oechsler introduced himself as? He answered "He introduced himself as a[n] independent..... he didn't even describe what he was doing initially in order to see me. He said that he had been referred to me by somebody [Inman] that should contact me. I tried to contact that person to verify, he was out of the country. I finally agreed that I would meet him. And then, all he had was his card that described himself as some sort of a robotic expert or something. You know, a complete sham." [Tape recorded conversation]. I then contacted Mr. Robert W. Kirchgessner, who was the Director of Special Development Group, Ringling Bros. & Barnum and Bailey, at that time. Mr. Kirchgessner, with his direct answers, cast a great deal of light on the subject matter, thereby revealing the length and breadth of distortions Good and Oechsler went to present THEIR own version of 'Cosmic Journey'. I asked Mr. Kirchgessner to describe what took place in the course of their contacts with Oechsler and Good. He said: "Robert Oechsler's situation is ah, let me put it like this... Robert Oechsler was recommended to us by Timothy Good, we met with the man ONE time. We determined very very quickly that he was a total INCOMPETENT." "This fact is illustrated when the gentleman approached us, coming in and telling us everything from the fact that he could deliver us a UFO, to whether he had a government agency watching him." "We were sitting in a restaurant here in Orlando with him. We invited him down here, paying all his costs, to speak to him....." [This particular factor was confirmed to me by Mr. Robert Kenneston, in a separate telephone conversation with him in his Los Angeles office, on 12 Aug. 1991 {tape recorded conversation}. Mr. Kenneston was a witness to that meeting, and held a separate discussion with Oechsler, as part of the same meeting.] ".....trying to do the best research that we could. And he perceives and comes out with the statement that the CIA people are tracking him and they were sitting and watching him in the restaurant." "The man was...he was not in touch with reality at the time in my opinion. We had elected not to proceed with him in any way, shape or form. The only question that I felt remaining with the call that I received regarding Robert Oechsler, was whether or not somebody else in the Ringling Corporation had hired him to do additional research without my knowledge. Which was always possible within our company". Author: "Yes, Mr. Chuck Smith..." "...right, Chuck Smith was my immediate superior. Chuck met various people, he usually would utilize them to continue to look into subject matters, if they had any knowledge at all. To my knowledge at this time, he had never spoken to nor had he been in communication with, nor had gone any further than my initial confidential report to him, stating that this (Mr. Oechsler) is one gentleman that we should NOT do business with. And to this date that is the position that Chuck has taken in regards to this." I asked Mr. Kirchgessner how Timothy Good became involved? He replied that they decided not to have anything to do with Good due to the high fees he had asked for. Mr. Kirchgessner's answer to this question is quite contradictory to what Good has written in his book. On page 151 of 'Alien Liasons', Good writes: [Quote] Following further discussions, I was invited to become the 'Official Consultant on UFO research' to the Special Development group. A personal meeting in Orlando, Florida, was pre-requisite, the director said, and since I would be visiting Gulf Breeze during October, I made arrangements to fly to Orlando. Unfortunately, DIFFICULTIES with airline scheduling arose, allowing inadequate time for the trip, and I was obliged to postpone the meeting. [End quote] I put to Mr. Kirchgessner what Mr. Good had published, he said "It is simply not true, we dropped him because of the sums he was asking as his fees. Then Mr. Robert Oechsler appeared on the horizon." Mr. Kirchgessner told me that Oechsler had asked for either $1200 or $2000 per day for his work (he couldn't remember the exact figure off-hand). He had added that they asked Captain Gene Cernan, ex-NASA astronaut, who is a director on their Board, to check Oechsler's credentials regarding his NASA background. Cernan reported that Oechsler had NEVER held the position he claims in NASA, but that it was possible that he had worked as a junior technician either with NASA or with a NASA sub-contractor, in which case his name would not have been known anyway. I called Gene Cernan on 8 Aug. 1991. After confirming what Mr. Kirchgessner had said was correct, Cernan added that the 'Cosmic Journey' project never went any further than the drawing board. (Taped telephone conversation). The day before, 7 Aug. 1991, I contacted Miss Susan Brewer, who works with Mr. Kirchgessner and was a witness to the Orlando meeting, between Oechsler and the Ringling Bros people. I read her the passage on page 197 of 'Alien Liaison' in which Good states that the project ('Cosmic Journey') had the approval of President Bush and Vice-President Quayle. She answered: "As far as Bob (Kirchgessner) is concerned, when he worked with Gene Cernan, Cernan presented the project to Vice President Quayle representing President Bush, then yes, I would assume it would go to the top." [Note: The way in which Good has referred to this point in his book adds more vigor to his version of the story, as to 'Cosmic Journey' initially being a government based project]. She further added "Let me tell you that when Mr. Oechsler came here to Orlando, I was present. We were very kind and polite, but we realized that he was a little off the wall". I also put to her what Mr. Kirchgessner had told me about Oechsler's promise to provide them with a genuine UFO. She immediately said, "A genuine UFO plus a spaceship". I asked her whether it was in writing or verbal. She replied "Verbal, but there were four other people at the table, you know, they fell off their chairs!". I asked if she could give me their names as a matter of record. She answered, "I was one of them, the other young man was Brownell Schlubach. He used to work with us at SDG, Bob Kirchgessner, and the other gentleman's name was Don Branch, the Manager of Design for SDG". She further added that "after we realized what sort of person we were dealing with, we would not have anything more to do with a person with such a fanatical presentation". Following my inquiries into other areas of chapter 10, Cosmic Journey, I was quite intrigued by what Good had written about 'THE PENTAGON MEETING' (See p.198 - 201, 'Alien Liaison'). I was determined to locate the 'GENERAL' who had apparently scared the life out of Oechsler. Oechsler had stated in the course of one of his telephone conversations with me that, whilst in Florida the Ringling Brother's team had told him that a variety of people were involved, and that their names were mentioned to him. A week after returning from Florida he received a call from the 'General'. He added that he would not like to "Fuck around" with that General, after his alleged encounter experience of November 17, 1989. (Taped telephone conversation with Mr. Oechsler 7 Aug. 1991) "While resting in a Dallas cocktail lounge", that he still thinks was the General's doing. Good illustrates Oechsler's impressions and thoughts relating to this 'Alien Intrusion':- The sensation in the back of Bob's head reminded him of the security machine at the Pentagon, which had induced a 'tingling' sensation at the back of his head. Was there some connection perhaps? (See p. 202 in the book). With the help of the members of our research group, I managed to discover the identity of the 'General' concerned. Oechsler, independently, in the course of our telephone conversation on Aug. 9, 1991, confirmed our finding by revealing his name to me. Further, Oechsler emphasized, that he did not want his name to be mentioned in the course of my inquiry with the 'General'. (Taped telephone conversation). On August 8, 1991, I contacted Lt. General Thomas P. Stafford, the distinguished ex-NASA astronaut in his Oklahoma office. He was the alleged 'General' in Good's book. I mentioned to Tom Stafford that I had received a copy of the 'Cosmic Journey' project (from Good's book), and understood that he had met Oechsler on November 13, 1989, in order to discuss the project with him. He answered that he did not remember meeting Oechsler. I pointed out that at that particular meeting, one of the topics was about the type of alien/ET to be put on show in a cryogenic tank (See p. 199, 'Alien Liaison'). I asked him whether he recalled that. He said that he did not remember. He then asked me about the date of the meeting. After I gave him the date he said he could not remember such a meeting. Then he asked where the meeting was supposed to have taken place. I told him the Pentagon. I then proceeded to try to refresh his memory, and referred to the security device that Oechsler had apparently passed through, and discussed with the General [See p. 199]. He replied "Bullshit. Tingling?" I answered yes, and quoted from the book on page 198 of the book. He asked by whom. I replied by Oechsler. General Stafford, in reply to my question that I had repeated again - referring to exhibiting a alien corpse in a cryogenic tank - replied "I don't remember Mr. Oechsler and don't know anything about it". He later added again that he has just finished an eleven month study for the White House and NASA about how to get back to the Moon and Mars, which he had referred to very briefly at the beginning. And added that he didn't know what I was talking about. I told him about Good's publication, and added that although he had not been mentioned by name, the 'General' in the passage is him. I told him that Oechsler himself had confirmed this to me. He said that he instigated the Stealth bomber and "Sure, I started the F-117A fighter, but that was years ago". Although he goes to the Pentagon occasionally to meet friends, he does not have an office there. I put it to him that, according to Oechsler, his office was in the basement section of the Pentagon, where Oechsler allegedly met with him. I asked him "Am I correct, or do I have the wrong information?" He answered "You've got the wrong information. I was down at SDI in Star Wars. I was down there occasionally, but I have no office there". In reply to my question about his knowledge of the alien entities, he answered, that he had never seen them, although he had been into space four times. When I questioned him as to whether he had any evidence about flying saucers, he said "Hell NO". (Taped telephone conversation with Thomas P. Stafford)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 14 Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:13:03 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 03:05:12 -0400 Subject: Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site > Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 00:06:25 -0700 > > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/13/97 8:46 PM: > > Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 08:42:46 -0700 (PDT) > > From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site > > In the meanwhile, of course, it is taking all kinds of very good pictures, > > probably including some closer close-up shots of the Cydonia region than > > we'll get from the later circularized orbit. And that will give them > > plenty of time to figure out how to handle the coverup. E.g., that will > > allow them to select inconclusive photos to show to the public first, > > which will only hint that the Face is a genuine artifact, and then after > > the impact of that has been absorbed, they could show more definitive > > ones, etc. That's if they wish to expose this part of the coverup. > > Otherwise, it could give them time to doctor up the photos in some way. > The problem with this kind of "reasoning" is that it > a priori assumes that the Face is an artifact, and > that there is a conspiracy. In the event that the > Face actually is not a remnant of an alien > civilization, then this kind of "reasoning" will be > used to show that it must be an alien artifact anyway. > The problem is that the only answer that would be > acceptable to a person holding this view would be > NASA confirming the Face as an alien artifact. If > they do, they're right. If they don't, they're lying. > It's not a very scientific approach to the problem. Mark, It's scientific to keep the alternatives in mind. This is one of them. Perhaps you're content that NASA will have 6 months to examine photos that they apparently won't be displaying to the public or to scientists in general. I'm not. Let's see what reasons NASA comes out with for withholding them. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 14 Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:32:40 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 03:07:23 -0400 Subject: Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site > From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson] > Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 00:18:02 -0400 (EDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site > >Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 08:42:46 -0700 (PDT) > >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site > >As I understand it, its orbit will at first be highly elliptical, taking > >it too far (and too close) to the surface for the high volume of > >regularized mapping photos they wish to acquire. And it will take until > >about March before its orbit is fully circularized. > This is because it is dipping into the thin Martian atmosphere to > decelerate itself. This saved them from carrying lots of fuel to slow it > down. Correct. > >In the meanwhile, of course, it is taking all kinds of very good pictures, > >probably including some closer close-up shots of the Cydonia region than > >we'll get from the later circularized orbit. And that will give them > >plenty of time to figure out how to handle the coverup. E.g., that will > >allow them to select inconclusive photos to show to the public first, > >which will only hint that the Face is a genuine artifact, and then after > >the impact of that has been absorbed, they could show more definitive > >ones, etc. That's if they wish to expose this part of the coverup. > >Otherwise, it could give them time to doctor up the photos in some way. > The cover-up conspiracy has already started. How predictable! It's wise not to assume that no coverup could or will occur, or has occurred. Our government's past record on coverups speaks for itself. The more important the matter is -- the more shocking its ramifications would be, or its embarrassments, for one section or another of government or society, the more likely a coverup will be attempted. For minor matters of little consequence, I usually make your assumption and don't worry about the coverup possibility. The government's not going to lie if they have no motivation to do so. > Why bother photographing it at all, Jim? Even if they are being completely > honest when and if it is found to be nothing unusual, the believers will > shout...COVER-UP! But others will keep in mind that there may well be a coverup, and explore that possibility without automatically making the assumption you do that surely no section of our government would do such a thing. > So I don't see the point in imaging it at all, because > there are those who will never be satisfied unless their pre-conceived > notions are proved correct. Information is power, so they say. So why wouldn't the appropriate sections of our government wish to collect information, photographic or otherwise? Then they can decide how and when to release it or some form of it. If they choose to employ some coverup procedure, the existence of some die-hard conspiracy buffs won't stop them from doing it. Rather, they'll take them into account as best they can in their planning. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 14 Re: A New Question about Witness Anonymity From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 03:37:43 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 09:05:55 -0400 Subject: Re: A New Question about Witness Anonymity >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: A New Question about Witness Anonymity >Date: Sat, 13 Sep 97 11:04:23 -0000 >From: pwedel <pwedel@neptune.on.ca> [Paul Wedel >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: XianneKei@aol.com >>Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:55:27 -0400 (EDT) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: A New Question about Witness Anonymity >>Greetings List Members and Our Esteemed Moderator/Owner: ><snip> >>The subject of abductee anonymity is an important one and I >>agree that abductee's should have anonymity, if they so >>choose. I don't want to debate when they give up their >>anonymity, as we have been there, done that. ><snip> >>John Velez, from time to time, signs his posts "Union Rep." I'm >>not a big fan of unions, but I do believe it is time for some >>of the myths and fallacies of abduction research to be put to >>bed. Maybe it's time for an abductee's union. A place where >>abductees could get responsible information on their rights. >>I think a clearing house should be established where complaints >>about abuses could be filed and investigated. Maybe that's a witch >>hunt, I don't know. >>Rebecca -------------------------------- Paul (Twigman) Wedell writes, -------------------------------- >Hi Rebecca, > You make some very good points and I for one think it is a good >idea. Implementation of course would be very difficult. Something >certainly needs to be put in place to protect abductee's/contactee's >from the ravages of savages in this business. > I'm sure Johnny V. has lot's of spare time <heehaw> to handle 328 >new email messages a day. I nominate him. (See what trouble you can >get yourself into signing such names to your messages John?) You have >no idea the questions/suggestions I get about 'twigman'. ------------------------------ Hello Twigman, Rebecca, All, Paul, I'm sure (based on my own past experience) that many of those "questions/suggestions" regarding 'Twigman' have something to do with your genitalia or it wouldn't have upset you so much! <HEE-HAW> (Do I know you or what!<VBG>) On a more serious note and in answer to the remarks that my friends Rebecca & Paul made,...yes, I'm working on it now. I _was_ working on a 'personal' website after leaving the Intruders Foundation, but after a conversation with Rebecca Schatte (who put the bean in my ear) my focus has shifted and several other 'essential components' have fallen from the sky like manna from heaven. When a door opens by itself it's hard to resist going thru. (What is it about the 'Gates of Hell' that makes folks wanna walk through them? Damned if I know either but here I go. <G>) The Straight Poop- I am in the middle of an e-mail exchange with my 'brother rat' from Texas Pat Parrinello in order to set up an e-mail bulletin board, and means of direct lines of communication between and for whatever professionals I can recruit, and the abductees. (I already have two psychologists on tap to help with/participate/monitor/ analyze intra-abductee {group} interactions on-line.) Shit, if I can recruit us a good goddam lawyer to donate his/her time and advice I'll even learn to work with one of them lizards too! Nowadays abductees need 'legal advice' too, what a world! The website is going to be called, A.I.C. (Abduction Information Center) (Thank you Errol & Sue for that little gem. I only hope that it isn't 'taken' already! Until your suggestion, I was drawing blanks in the 'name' dept.) AIC will be a website featuring only the very best, most useful information with immediate and practical applications for the abductees. AIC will feature the work and writings of people like Katarina Wilson, the late Karla Turner, Donna Higbee and others who never get much exposure but manage to bring intelligence, sanity and humanity to their work with abductees. AIC hopes to present the latest news and developments relating to the abduction phenom, with links to other excellent information sites like the UFO Updates archive, CNI News, and several others. And, (with Pat Parrinello's help) it will also be an interactive website with a working e-mail bulletin board and a means of desegregating or gathering information and answering participants questions in a timely manner. These details have yet to be worked out, the computer dummy, _me_ has to learn how all that stuff works! Pat's teaching me as we speak. Learn it I will though because it'll actualize the "abductee on-line support network" that I tried to (but failed) to establish on the IF website. AIC is being created for the benefit anyone seeking sane, responsible information, help, (or if need be) referral to someone local. AIC will be a no BS, no nonsense, no philosophy to sell or promote website for the benefit of abductees. A centralized umbrella group, a union, a haven, safe from all of the land sharks, unadulterated crap, and people with ulterior motives that is currently available for abductees on the Internet. We're going to offer an alternative. "The Kicker"- I can't do this for free and I'm going to need all the help and support that I can get. One of the ways I hope to generate funds (so that I can enjoy the privilege of being an indentured slave chained to my computer and to humanity for fourteen hours a day) would be to, 1. Charge a nominal fee (union dues) to all active members, 2. Offer a 'quarterly newsletter' which will include all of the latest abduction related news, information and ongoing developments, articles from researchers, etc and, 3. Solicit donations and the financial support of all who request or utilize our services. (Personal note: I worked the 'IF Online' website for over a year, and for four additional years before that for 'IF' -for free- and it almost cost me a twenty-eight year marriage, my social life, and the whole while it simultaneously put a substantial drain on my personal savings. Sorry, can't do that/go through that again.) Those that I have worked with, and who have had an opportunity to get know me will understand why I have to do this, and how hard it is for me to do. It just rubs my fur the wrong way to have to ask folks seeking help or information to pay for it. If I was 'independantly wealthy' I would do it for free.I have no choice however, it's either 'charge' for it or I simply can't dedicate the time that it will require. Me and mine have to eat and keep the rain off of our heads. Gotta make my peace with reality here. To those few open and generous minded individuals who may think that this is just another abductee 'get rich quick scheme' I simply say, go blow a penguin. <G> I _will_ give this my very 'best shot'. Creating something like AIC has been a rumble in my head for awhile now, the IF website was just a warm-up for AIC, time to clothe the idea in matter and drag it out into reality! AIC is something that is sorely needed. Anyone who is crazy enough to want to volunteer their time, talents or energy is most welcome. Contact me at my private e-mail address. I want to hear from you Rebecca, need to talk, more importantly I want your help. Sean, we need to talk about possibly lending me the use of your chat room occasionally in order to facilitate live group interactions. I _expect_ to hear from Bill Webber specifically and 'others' (you know who you are!) to help me get this "albatross" of a project off the runway. <G> I have put a huge dent into the job of creating the web pages already but it'll easily be another month or more before it's ready to go up on-line. I had to scrap a lot of my original work which was created for my personal website. This is my third 'gear change' since I started it two months ago. I'll make birthday announcements for AIC through this list. Wish me luck, support me if you can, or better yet- pitch in and HELP ME! "You alone can do it, but you can't do it alone" Let's make it happen together! John Velez, Abductee Union Rep. *Self-appointed for now, but maybe tomorrow "elected!" I'm thinking of changing my surname to 'Hoffa' just to bug the skeptics who I am sure will firmly insert themselves in my rectum for actually doing what I propose. "Today der Internet, tomorrow der whole schtinken voilt unt a candy-apple red chevy corvette!" Meeeyaaahahahaha! (insane with power cackle) Sincerely, Eyegore Hoffa ;) John Velez jvif@spacelab.net Search for other documents from or mentioning: jvif | pwedel |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 14 The Near Pathfinder Anomaly Analysis Group From: Bryan Butcher <being@concentric.net> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 02:38:48 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 09:08:28 -0400 Subject: The Near Pathfinder Anomaly Analysis Group Hello List... On September 11, 1997 Richard C. Hoagland announced in Pasadena, California that he had evidence of an ancient civilization on Mars. His evidence was gathered from the images returned from Mars by the Pathfinder spacecraft. A representative of the Near Pathfinder Anomaly Analysis Group (NPAA) was present at the conference and sat on the stage next to reverse speech pioneer David John Oates. Rick Savard was to give a presentation of the images prepared by myself and Nathan Coombs (the founder of the group) showing anomalous features in the landscape around the lander. Our evidence also suggests possible manipulation of images by the JPL imaging team...or other entities not known. The presentation was shortened considerably due to the length taken by the presentation of Enterprise Mission material and the correlation of this evidence to Oates reverse speech examples. Our images were not shown to the audience of over 800 attendees, and our representative left the conference with little more than an advertisement for our website. We are continuing this promotion campaign by asking everyone interested in the possible existence of a Martian civilization to visit our website. Your comments and suggestions are welcome. Please visit: http://www.mufor.org/ares thank you, Bryan Butcher Image Analyst - NPAA
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: UFO Cartoons Festival From: John Hayes <ufoinfo@cableinet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 11:17:10 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 03:35:32 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Cartoons Festival Dear Errol, I thought the following which was submitted for inclusion on my site might be of interest to your readers: From: Pete O <tooner@cartoonsforum.com> Organization: Internet CARTOONS Forum To: ufoinfo@cableinet.co.uk Subject: UFO Cartoons Festival Here's an event that is sure to be of interest to your readers. Hi, I'm the Online Host for the Internet CARTOONS Forum: http://www.cartoonsforum.com We just launched a new "ToonZone" Upload Library, where visitors to our site can upload their own cartoons. The ToonZone URL is: http://www.cartoonsforum.com/ToonZone/TZIndex.html To celebrate the opening of the new Upload Library, we're holding a cartooning festival on the theme of UFOs. It's the "50th Anniversary Roswell UFO Cartoons Upload Festival," commemorating the Roswell UFO Incident with cartoons uploaded by our visitors and subscribing members. The festival will run through mid-December. The festival announcement is at: http://www.cartoonsforum.com/ToonZone/UFOfest.html The UFO Upload Festival should be an entertaining site for both skeptics and fanatics. Everyone loves cartoons! Please consider making a link to the ToonZone, reviewing our site, or making mention of the UFO Upload Festival. - Pete O (tooner@cartoonsforum.com) Online Host - Internet CARTOONS Forum http://www.cartoonsforum.com Barkeep - The Cartoon Bar palace://cartoonsforum.com:9994 Net Guide - Cartooning at The Mining Company http://cartooning.miningco.com ================================ John Hayes ufoinfo@cableinet.co.uk ufoinfo@digiserve.com Visit UFOINFO @ http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site From: Karel Bagchus <karel@atmm.nl> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 14:41:10 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 03:37:53 -0400 Subject: Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site >From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson] >Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 00:18:02 -0400 (EDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site >The cover-up conspiracy has already started. How predictable! >Why bother photographing it at all, Jim? Even if they are being completely >honest when and if it is found to be nothing unusual, the believers will >shout...COVER-UP! So I don't see the point in imaging it at all, because >there are those who will never be satisfied unless their pre-conceived >notions are proved correct. Yes and no Drew.... I'm open to any evidence that the Marsface is a natural artifact, and not an alien one. However, NASA (or should I say People at NASA ?) publicly display a "we couldn't care less about that pile of dirt" additute, and that doesn't give them a lot of credibility in my point of view. NASA (uhmmm... James O. ?) has a long history of ridiculing people that do not adhere to what NASA dishes out to them. Should I trust an organization that works in a way like that ? And since when isn't NASA interested in Mars dirt anymore ? They've just spend the whole Sojournor mission on analyzing dirt. Isn't that strange, that they would be interested in any soil from Mars ~except~ the Cydonia soil ? That doesn't mean that if they come up with pictures that indeed show a pile of dirt, that a conspiracy is going on as mentioned here, but rather that in my opinion the evidence is inconclusive. It would be different if there was an independant verification of claims by NASA. But current claims by Nasa cannot be verified becouse NASA currently is the only space agency thet does flights to Mars apart from the Russians (and I doubt they would tell). Maybe we should have our own space agency then :=) Best Regards, Karel.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 15 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 35 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:24:47 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 03:57:40 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 35 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 35 September 14, 1997 Editor: Joseph Trainor TRIANGULAR UFOs SEEN IN OHIO AND UTAH On Wednesday, August 20, 1997, at 12:40 a.m., a woman driving on Route 53 in Hardin County, near Kenton, Ohio (population 8,576), spotted a triangular UFO overhead. The witness told Tri-States Advocates for Scientific Knowledge (T.A.S.K.) that she "observed a triangular- shaped object with three white lights in a triangle configuration. The sighting lasted for one to two minutes as the object moved from the northeast to the southwest. The object moved at a steady pace slightly faster than an airplane. The object's altitude was bordering the cloud ceiling (8,000 feet), the lights occasionally dimming as it was obscured by clouds. There was a light rain falling at the time of the sighting." (Many thanks to Kenneth Young of T.A.S.K. for this report.) On Saturday, September 6, 1997, at 5 a.m., two men driving on Interstate Highway 15 in Clearfield, Utah (population 17,982), about 30 miles (48 kilometers) north of Salt Lake City, sighted "a triangular craft with white lights at each point and a red light on top." The UFO was flying over Hill Air Force Base, a salt desert area just west of the Wasatch mountain range. (Many thanks to Ed Adcox, Utah state director of Skywatch International for this report.) STRANGE FIREBALLS SPOTTED IN REDDING, CALIFORNIA On Sunday, August 3, 1997, at 2 p.m., Ted Toal was standing on the deck of his home in Redding, California (population 41,995) with his 12-year-old son and the son's 8-year-old friend "when we saw a very bright fireball" rising in the southern sky at "maybe 60 degrees elevation." The UFO "moved across a good portion of the sky (maybe 80 degrees), passing roughly straight overhead." As the fireball reached a point "maybe 45 degrees elevation" in the northern sky, "it suddenly disappeared." "My son said that it appeared to him that the object had exploded because he saw streaks of light coming from it in all directions the moment it happened," Ted reported. "About five to ten minutes later, a second very bright fireball streaked across the sky, this time from the north-northeastern portion of the sky to the western portion, moving roughly at a 100-degree angle and reaching an elevation of 70 degrees. Its trajectory was roughly at right angles to the first fireball." "As it reached the western portion of the sky, I could no longer see it because of a hedge near me that blocked it, but my son and his friend could still see it. They saw it suddenly turn at a 90-degree angle to the right and streak off. They are certain of that." (Email Interview) UFO SHOWS UP AT THE GARTH BROOKS CONCERT Thursday, August 7, 1997, saw the Garth Brooks outdoor concert at New York City's Central Park, which drew a capacity crowd of 300,000. But a handful of country music fans spotted something else in the area. "A few of us noticed a strange object in the sky to the east of Central Park," J.D. reported. "Right after Billy Joel played his first song, I glanced at the sky and saw a yellow or amber light over the trees to the east. It seemed to be staying still so I watched it a little longer. I noticed a light that seemed to sparkle or flare downward. At that point, I pointed it out to the people I was with. From then on, we all watched it move up and down in the sky. It also seemed to hover behind the trees." "At one point, it seemed to change color to a light green, then back again. Soon after this, it rose in the sky and then zigzagged back down again at the same time" a light blue UFO appeared. The newcomer "seemed to come from behind, then disappeared to the left. At 9:15 p.m., it went below the treeline and stayed there. Before we left, we noticed that it was still visible in the sky but was hard to see with the lights from the concert." (Many thanks to Mike Broussard of CNE for forwarding J.D.'s report.) UFO HOVERS OVER TOWN ON THE BERKSHIRE-SURREY LINE On Saturday, August 30, 1997, at 7:50 p.m., residents of Sunningdale, Berkshire, UK gathered on Cobham Common to watch a bright light hover over the nearby town of Camberley, Surrey. "Its altitude was at cloud level (10,000 feet or 3,030 meters--J.T.)," one witness reported. "The sky was broken cloud and dry at the time." The UFO "appeared as a very bright, magnesium-white cylindrical object of about the same size and speed of an aircraft. It was far too bright to be a conventional aircraft. It was pointing at 45 degrees going down and travelling north. It then changed shape and elongated to over twice its original size." The UFO continued its northward descent and then "began stretching until it formed a crescent moon shape--like a C." After that, it disappeared. (USENET report.) ROTATING BLUE UFO STARTLES COUPLE IN IRELAND On Saturday, August 30, 1997, at about 1 a.m., Chris Maher and his wife were driving from Kenmare to Rosslare on Highway N72 in County Kerry, Eire when they spied a UFO. Kenmare is near Eire's Atlantic Ocean shore, 125 miles (190 kilometers) southwest of Dublin. "Shortly after passing Rathmore on the road to Mallow," Chris reported, "I began noticing an array of hexagonal- shaped lights which appeared to be between 400 and 600 feet (off the ground--J.T.). The lights were first observed to the right of the road and then passed over the road, hovering for a few minutes over the center line. They then passed to the left of the road over open country" and paced the Mahers' car on a parallel course. Chris said he wanted to stop, but his wife, who was terrified by the UFO's appearance, insisted that they continue on to Mallow. Chris pointed out that the night sky was clear with unlimited visibility. He described the UFO as "the array, whitish/light blue in color, seemed to be rotating in an eccentric pattern on two or more levels." Unknown to the Mahers at the time, the newspaper Irish Mirror had reported a sighting of glowing "flying crucifixes" over Kerrystown. (See the Irish Mirror for August 30, 1997. Many thanks to Chris Maher for letting UFO ROUNDUP quote from his report.) UNUSUAL METEOR RAISES A FLAP IN CENTRAL ITALY On Sunday, September 7, 1997, at 12:20 a.m., a fireball flew over central Italy and was seen by hundreds of people. Witnesses described it as a "bright light" in the sky, which changed into "a column of light, bluish white in color." Although the description is typical of a bolide, or detonating meteor, no sound was reported by the witnesses. The object was seen in the provinces of Liguria, Emilia, Toscana, Umbria, Marche and Campagna. The case is being investigated by the Centro Italiano di Studi Ufologici (CISU). (See the newspapers La Nazione, Il Tempo, Corriere Adriatico, Corriere di Arezzo, and Gazzetta di Palma for September 8, 1990. Grazie a Edoardo Russo of CISU for this report.) UFOs SIGHTED AT DESERT ARMY BASE IN CHILE During August, a daylight disc visited a base operated by the Ejercito de Chile (Chilean Army) in the Atacama Desert, not far from Antofagasta, the site of last month's UFO encounter. According to Agrupacion de Investigaciones Ovniologicas (AION), the well-known Chilean UFO group, a Chilean Army platoon went on patrol in the afternoon and left one man behind on sentry duty. When the patrol returned, they found the soldier "scared to death." While the platoon was gone, the unnamed soldier "saw a metallic oval-shaped object about 100 meters (330 feet) away and suspended about two meters (7 feet) from the ground. The object was 10 meters (33 feet) in diameter." AION is also investigating the reported crash of a UFO at Osorno in southern Chile in January 1997. "Some farmers and cowboys saw a bright object fall from the sky. At first they thought it was a meteor, but when it slowed down and made a movement like a falling leaf, they started doubting. The object landed and could be seen with binoculars. The object was bright and metallic-looking." The following day, however, when a curious witness tried to reach the site, he was halted by a fully-armed Chilean Army patrol about one kilometer from the spot. According to AION president Rodrigo Fuenzalida, the platoon "told him to leave and said that they had orders to shoot, if necessary." For the next two days, people in Osorno reported seeing many helicopters fly over the town, heading for the reputed crash site. "The retrieval operation took two days to clean up whatever was there." (Muchas gracias a Luis Sanchez Perry para esas noticias.) BLACK HELICOPTERS VERY ACTIVE DURING AUGUST Black helicopters were very active during August, and one of them even intruded upon your editor's vacation in the USA's upper Midwest. On Friday, August 29, 1997, at 3:30 p.m., a black helicopter was seen flying low over Albany, Oregon (population 26,546). According to an eyewitness, Mrs. Robert Walker, the machine had a strange-looking antennae array on its nose and flew over West Albany High School. Another witness, Lee Wise, described the chopper as "a praying mantis." Others identified it as a CH-54 Sky Crane. (See the Albany, Oregon Democrat and Herald for August 30, 1997.) On Saturday, August 23, 1997, at 3:25 p.m., your editor was walking down Lake Avenue in Duluth, Minnesota (population 90,000). Right in front of the Subway sandwich shop, I heard a loud helicopter sound and, turning to my left, spotted a charcoal gray helicopter hovering at an estimated altitude of 500 feet above the building across the street. Although the sky was overcast, the chopper had no running lights and no identifiable insignia. It was not an American chopper. I know the configuration of all USA military helicopters, from the UH-1 to the AH-64 to the MD-520, and it wasn't any of those. The helicopter coming closest to the one I saw is the German MBB BO-105, but the fuselage was a bit longer than the BO-105, and its skids were a bit longer, too. The helicopter hovered in place for a full three minutes, and then it took off at high speed in a northeasterly direction, heading for the Hunter Park section of the city, with me kicking myself for leaving my Olympia camera back at the motel. On Thursday, September 4, 1997, at 8:53 p.m., I was driving south on County Road 4 in Beaver Bay, Minnesota (population 300), on the north shore of Lake Superior. This time I had my fully-loaded camera in my jacket pocket. The sky was clear and cloudless, and the quarter-moon was just about to set. Only the planets were visible--the lingering sunset glow obscured the stars. Suddenly, a strange greenish-white light exploded in the sky about five miles (8 kilometers) north of me. The flash was approximately 20 degrees above the forested horizon. Immediately I pulled over to the side of the road. As I opened the car door, a second flash-- identical to the first--exploded on the southeast horizon. This flash was right over Lake Superior, about ten or fifteen miles south of Shovel Point in Tettegouche State Park. As you can imagine, my heart was really pumping. Hands quivering with adrenalin shock, I aimed my camera at the horizon and waited. And waited. And waited. Forty-five minutes went by, and the phenomenon did not repeat itself. (Aaaaarrrgh!--J.T.) A few days later, I talked to a woman at the Dewitt-Seitz Marketplace in Duluth. She told me that she had seen a black helicopter on Saturday, August 23, at 12:15 p.m. She had been taking her grandsons rollerblading in the municipal park/beach at the southern end of Park Point. The black helicopter came out of the southeast at a very high rate of speed, she said, flew over Park Point Beach, crossed St. Louis Bay and then "went like a bat out of hell over the ridge" in the Piedmont Heights section of the city. Her sighting took place three hours before mine. On Monday, September 8, 1997, at 4:50 p.m., James D. and his girlfriend, Lillian R., were driving south on Post Road, aka Route 1, in the Davisville section of North Kingstown, Rhode Island, when they saw a black helicopter fly from east to west over the highway. Jim described the chopper as "a Huey" (UH-1), and Lill said its color was "coal-black." The helicopter made a 90-degree turn southward after crossing the highway, Jim said. It then flew for "a half mile or so" in that direction, made another 90-degree left turn, and flew due east toward the old Quonset naval base. "We lost sight of it when we stopped for a red light," he added. (Editor's Comment: As near as I can tell, Jim and Lill sighted their black helicopter two hours after I talked to my DeWitt-Seitz eyewitness. I left Duluth the following day to fly back to Rhode Island.) NOSTRADAMUS PREDICTED DI'S DEATH AND FUNERAL Like everyone else, your editor was shocked and saddened by the death of Princess Diana and her friend, Emad (Dodi) al-Fayed, in Paris two weeks ago. While most modern psychics seemed to have missed the boat on this tragedy, I wondered how the Babe Ruth of prediction, Nostradamus himself, had made out. Turns out the Old Master has hit another home run. Check out this item--Century 2, Quatrain 28 "La penultieme du surnom de prophete Prendra Diane pour son jour et repos Loing vaguera par frenetique teste En deliverant un grand peuple d'impos." ("The last son of the man with the Prophet's name Will bring Diana to her day of rest. At a distance they wander in frenetic grief Delivering a great people from ruin.") The father of Dodi al-Fayed, the owner of Harrod's department store, is named Mohammed, the name of the Islamic Prophet. The rest of Nostradamus's prophecy is self-evident. It's strange how his prophecies always become perfectly obvious after the event. (See the book NOSTRADAMUS--COUNTDOWN TO APOCALYPSE by Jean-Charles de Fontbrunne, Owl Edition, Henry Holt & Co., 1985, page 418.) DEATH TUNNEL NEIGHBORHOOD HAS AN UNSAVORY HISTORY Princess Diana, Dodi al-Fayed and their driver, Henri Paul, were killed in a traffic tunnel near the bridge Pont d'Alma when their Mercedes crashed into a concrete pillar. It was reportedly the 13th pillar in the tunnel. The Pont d'Alma was built in 1856 to commemorate an Allied victory in the Crimean War. Originally, there were four statues at the site, each representing a soldier from the four Allied nations. Today only one remains, ironically, a French Zouave in North African uniform. Al-Fayed, an Egyptian, was born in North Africa. Before the Roman conquest of Gaul, that spot on the Seine River was used for human sacrifice. An unknown number of Celtic princes and princesses willingly gave up their lives to the gods Hu and Ceridwen in elaborate ritual slayings. In the 1670s, the French sorceress Catherine Deshayes, aka La Voisin, conducted rituals there. She and her companion, La Vigorieux, were arrested in 1679 and changed with plotting to kill King Louis XIV with poisons. In January 1680, Mlle. Deshayes was convicted of sedition, murder and sorcery. She was marched out of the Bastille in chains, down the Rue St. Antoine past the Hotel de Sully, and burned at the stake on the banks of the Seine, not far from the Pont d'Alma. (See LIFE IN FRANCE UNDER LOUIS XIV by John Laurence Carr, G.P. Putnam's Sons, New York, NY 1966, pages 148 and 150.) Another sorceress named Catherine also liked that spot. She was Catherine Theot (1716-1794), the notorious sorceress of the French Revolution. Mlle. Theot held court at a house in the Rue de la Contrescarpe, which she purchased in 1782. Both the house and the Pont d'Alma were the sites of Illuminati conclaves. A defrocked Carthusian monk and Illuminatus named Dom Gerle was her right-hand man. Theot and Gerle were also confidantes of the revolutionist Maximilien Robespierre. The Theot sect was finally arrested in 1794 by the Committee of General Security (revolutionary secret police--J.T.), but Robespierre tried to keep Mlle. Theot from coming to trial, mainly because she "claimed to be the mother of an impending Messiah and proclaimed Robespierre to be the herald of the Last Days, the prophet of the New Dawn." (See CITIZENS--A CHRONICLE OF THE FRENCH REVOLUTION by Simon Schama, Alfred A. Knopf, New York, NY 1992, page 840.) Robespierre lost his bid, fell from power and was guillotined later that year. (See the book ROBESPIERRE by Jean Matrat, Charles Scribner's Sons, New York, NY 1971.) The Illuminati of the Theot sect were also executed. (Editor's Comment: Of all the Illuminati of that era, Catherine Theot is surely the spookiest. She once said a "sacrifice of the saints" would precede "the New Dawn." Here's hoping she's dead wrong on that score!) from the UFO Files: 1978: UFO HOVERS OVER A HOUSE IN BOLIVIA On August 15, 1978, Roberto Rodriguez was asleep in the guest room of his sister's house in Chacez, a suburb of La Paz, the capital of Bolivia. Suddenly, he was jolted awake by "a buzzing sound." "I climbed from the bed and walked to the window," Rodriguez reported. "And there it was--it looked like the fuselage of an airplane, but without wings or tail assembly. It was of a silvery color--and spotlessly clean, almost mirror-like. I saw no sign of life within the portholes dotting the sides of the craft. The entire craft gave off a sort of green light that pulsated, and it was just hovering there, and the light seemed to come from its underbelly." "I was about the wake the rest of the household and have them come to the window, to see this for themselves, but it (the UFO) was gone in a flash." After calming himself down, Rodriguez returned to bed. He said nothing about his encounter until a local newspaper reported that a woman in nearby Villa Mercado had seen an identical UFO on August 14, the night before his sighting. (See "Extraterrestrials Have Landed in Bolivia" by Leon P. Carter in the Autumn 1979 issue of UFO UPDATE magazine.) FUN UFO WEBSITES UFOs ONLINE has moved! The new URL for this site is http://www.chipp.clara.net Dan Brooks has a new webpage on UFOs. It's at http://www.ufoexperience.com Don't miss the great new newsletter by Anthony Chippendale and Jeroen Wierda. It's called PUFORI UFO News, and you'll find it at this URL: http://home.clara.net/chipp/news.html Be sure to visit our parent site, UFO INFO, with its myriad array of news and features. Log in at http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/ Back issues of UFO ROUNDUP are available at our page at http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/ roundup That's it for this week. To our readers in Bolivia, enjoy your Dia de Cochabamba holiday today. We'll be back next Sunday with more saucer news from "the paper that goes home--UFO ROUNDUP." UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1997 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post any news item from UFO ROUNDUP at their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of the issue in which the item first appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 15 UFO sighting with John Velez From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:56:48 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 04:11:45 -0400 Subject: UFO sighting with John Velez I'm sure most of us have read John Velez, when he writes about his sightings over his home in Queens, NY. Since he's a friend of mine, I hear about the sightings first hand. On Saturday, 9/13, I visited him and - much to my surprise! - I saw something, too. Why was I surprised? Three reasons. 1. I've never had a UFO sighting, or even thought for half a second that I was having one. I don't expect to look in the sky and see something strange. 2. I've felt strange about John's sightings, even though he's a friend. I know he doesn't lie, but...how can he see so many UFOs? I haven't known what to think. 3. I messed up my schedule, and only got to John's around 5:45 PM. That left barely an hour of daylight. How likely was a guest appearance by a UFO? But here's what happened. We kidded around a bit, I said hello to John's wife, John made me a sandwich. A little after 6, we went out in the back yard. John showed me how to focus his binoculars, and I started scanning the sky. I didn't see anything, unless you count a passing plane, no doubt on a flight path from nearby JFK Airport. The weather was lovely, mostly clear with some clouds. The sun hadn't yet begun to set, so the light (in the sky, anyway) was still bright. I'd guess we were facing approximately ENE, with the sun behind us and slightly to our left. And here's something that made a sighting even more unlikely, as I thought. Thanks to trees and buildings, you don't see much of the sky from John's yard, just a small swath overhead, though if you walk around you can see more to the east, and a good bit more behind you to the W and NW. Still, you're not exactly given a full view of the sky. After I'd been scanning for a few minutes (thinking "here goes nothing"), I heard John say, "There's one!" "Where?" I asked, and he started pointing. Let me jump ahead here, and point out something that helps explain why John might see things while other people don't. He's VERY good at watching the sky. And I don't just say that because he spotted this apparent UFO long before I was able to. Later on, he'd point out birds and balloons that I couldn't see. He'd keep pointing, and saying "Follow my finger!" But only after the objects would fall in line with something obvious - "Look at the TV antenna," he'd say, "then move your eyes directly up" - could I find them. That's what happened with this unusual thing we saw. He kept pointing, and directing me, and finally I spotted it. "See the big cloud, and smaller one on the right? Look between them." I looked, and there it was - a small bright pinpoint. Imagine if the stars shone by day, and you'd spotted a bright one. That might give you an idea of what this looked like. The color was silvery white. I put the binoculars to my eyes, and quickly found it. Magnified, it wasn't a pinpoint any more. It definitely had shape. The shape itself was blurry, so I can't fully describe it. But it occupied space, and was longer than it was high. Because it seemed long and somewhat thin, I didn't think it was anything unsual. "It's a plane," I said to John, my eyes still glued to the binoculars, looking at the thing. My voice, I think, was colored with simplistic confidence, as if I was saying: "Whaddya mean, a UFO? That's just a plane!" "If it's a plane," John answered, "why is it hovering?" Good question! Basically, the thing wasn't moving. Yes, it was jumping all over my field of view, but that's because of small movements of my hands, a familiar phenomenon to anyone who's ever seen the many UFO videos filmed through handheld videocams. I can't guarantee that the thing wasn't making small movements of some kind, but basically it was stationary. Remember that I'd already seen a plane. Later on, I'd see more planes through the binoculars, as well as balloons and birds. Their movement was easy to spot. In fact, to get very detailed here, an object moving in a straight line has such clear direction through the binoculars that, as I found, my eyes ignored the random motion introduced by my hands. So the fact that I noticed that motion when I looked at this thing is pretty much a guarantee that it was mostly stationary. (Besides, when you follow a moving plane or a balloon, you have to literally follow it, turning to follow the movement. As I watched the thing, I kept my eyes on one spot.) Through the binoculars, it still was silvery white. Metallic, it's easy to say, and shining, though when I use words like that, I'm aware that I'm beginning to add a very subjective tone to my description. I have no idea whether I was seeing something metal or not. It shined the way bright metal would, I think. And its position was consistent with reflecting the sun back at us. It was not far from directly overhead, just a little to our north. Seems to me it was in a position to catch the rays of the sun, coming at it from low in the sky. So what was it? Beats me. I've never seen anything like it before. With the naked eye, it was like a star shining in daylight. Through binoculars, it had a vague shape. It didn't make any major movements. I'd guess it was in view for a minute or less. I didn't think to time it. It seemed to be there a fairly long while, but I'm aware from other, non-UFO experiences that I tend to overestimate the time of any event. I'd say a minute max, maybe 30 or 45 seconds. Finally it disappeared. I wasn't watching when it did. I thought I'd pan the binocs around a bit, to get a sense of the background of whatever this was. As I moved my view away from the thing, I heard John say "It's gone." I moved the binocs around, trying to spot it again, and couldn't find it. I couldn't spot it by eye, either. According to John, it had simply vanished (which of course might also mean that it flew away so quickly that we couldn't see its path). As the evening progressed, we had some controls for this sighting. As I've said, we also saw birds, planes, and balloons. All were unmistakable. Birds have wings, and flap them. Planes have wings, tail, and rudder, often vapor trails, and move steadily in a straight line. The balloons I saw were colorful, one red, the other yellow. They float, moving more or less steadily, but with small changes in speed and direction. Birds have their own gait (so to speak) in the air. This object, whatever it was, didn't look or behave like a plane, bird, or balloon. Or at least not an ordinary party balloon. I suppose it could have been a very high weather balloon, but the shape didn't seem right (of course I'm not an expert on weather balloon shapes), and a weather balloon, I'd think, wouldn't simply disappear. Could it have been a helicopter? Maybe, though the shape didn't seem right for that - helicopters, seen from the side, would be more like a triangle, I'd think, tapering off at one end (this was more rectangular) - and aren't usually so shiny. I've rarely seen one h over at high altitude, for whatever that's worth, though I have seen them hovering fairly low over NY city. I can only say that this thing, whatever it was, was not like anything I've ever seen before. It's the first thing I've ever seen in the sky that I couldn't readily identify. Sorry if I've gone into exhausting detail. Since I'm corroborating some very provocative sightings of John's, I thought it was better to say too much than too little. John took photographs of whatever it was, and gave me the film. After I've developed it, I'll scan a shot, and upload it here. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 15 'Stumps' From: DONFEII@aol.com [Don Ecker] Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:22:58 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 04:21:54 -0400 Subject: 'Stumps' While examining a number of files in my data base for a story I am working on for UFO Magazine, I came across this file from the old ParaNet BBS system. I received this file about 7 or 8 years ago from the ParaNet email service. I have no idea if this is real, but it certainly is amusing. If any members live in the Oregon area, perhaps they might wish to check this out. At anyrate here is the file titled "Stumps". Don Ecker UFO Magazine www.ufomagazine.com Preface: I've known the author of the following for some time and can verify that the following story is indeed presented as he knows the truth. The town mentioned in the story is Toledo, Oregon. Aside from this, who knows? -Bob Dodson ----------------------------------------------------------------- STUMPS FROM SPACE By T.G. Browning Okay, all frivolity aside. This is a true story as far as I know. The people mentioned in here are people I actually know--hell, one of 'em is my father for crying out loud. I can vouch for the fact that they all believed what they told me--that they were all truthful. Now whether what they saw was real--or what--I won't venture to guess. For all I know, the CIA had hit the town with a heavy dose of hallucinogenic gas. Anyway, here it is: The Stumps from Space. This all occurred back in 1975, while I was still in college at the U of O [University of Oregon]. I came home one weekend and my father related the weeks events to me. It appears that one Tuesday of the week before, several of the kids at my dad's school (he was then principal of the Toledo Jr. High School) had been acting weird all morning. Several of the teachers had remarked up on it and my father felt it was strange enough to call them into his office to find out the problem. He did so. The two boys in question (I think there was a girl also, now that I think of it) all lived near each other out on Pioneer Mountain, east of Toledo [Oregon]. Dad didn't exactly grill them, but did try to probe a bit; they didn't want to say. Since at that age (12 & 13) darn near anything will make a kid act squirrelly, my Dad chalked it up to nothing much and let it go at that. The next one of the kids didn't show for school--the girl as I recall, but the other two didn't seem to be acting out of the ordinary any more so again, Dad didn't do anything. That Thursday, however, the girl came back and again all three of them (plus a fourth now--who also lived on Pioneer Mountain) were acting almost like they were scared. My Dad had still not decided what to do by the end of the second period, when one of the kids came to him and asked if he could talk to him. Dad ushered him into his office and sat down while the kid related the following. It seems that Monday night, there were some strange lights on the north side of the mountain, and some strange sounds. The kid claimed he saw a space ship (a saucer--right?) come down out of the sky and land in a field not too far from his house. At this point the story became rather confused--in any event it appeared that the kid's folks didn't do anything like call the cops or the press or anything--they more or less decided to ignore it. Hoped it would go away, I guess. Well, that's what it did. The kid said that the other two kids had seen it too, but that it was gone in the morning--leaving only a big burned place in the field--with grass mashed down and whatnot. They figured that if they told anybody about it, they be tagged as liars or looneys--it didn't matter which--and their folks basically told them they'd wallop the crap out of 'em if they did. So, that was why they hadn't told my Dad the next day. There hadn't been anything the next day or night any way--he said the girl had actually been sick--but that they came back the next night. And then he remarked in a rather casual way, that they'd seen space aliens too--little guys in shiny suits that apparently were out collecting things. The kid only hoped they wouldn't collect him--or his pets. Dad asked him what they had picked up and the kid said mostly plants, though they'd zapped one of the cows and taken the carcass into the ship. It was apparently at that point that his father had decided not to go on over and ask them for rent on the field they were using. He also said that they were, as of 7:00 AM that morning, still there. My Dad just looked at him for a bit, and they asked if he was sure. Kid said yep, they were. Dad called the other kids in one by one and got pretty much the same story--the fourth kid had only seen the ship the night before when the little aliens had waltzed over and taken some of the smaller live stock with them. He had seen them from about 200 feet away and claimed they looked like tree stumps with arms and legs. My father is a fairly pragmatic man, and used to dealing with kids. He didn't doubt that there was something out of the ordinary going on, but he told me he figured that it was something the kids had gotten wrong somehow. In any event, he decided it needed a bit more investigating, so he called the local chief of police. Now, I know the chief of police in Toledo (at that time anyway). He was an old friend of mine (we used to skin dive together) and a more unimaginative man you'd have to search hard to find. Jerry listened politely to my father and then asked what the hell was he supposed to do, go out an arrest 'em? No, Dad answered, just go out and see if everything's okay. Right. So Jerry, no having a lot better to do right then, decided it wouldn't hurt to go on out and see. Now a third individual comes into play. The local paper, The Lincoln Leader, had perhaps a staff of three people, one of whom got paid for writing stories--and it so happened that he was in having coffee with the Chief at that time. Jerry asked if he'd like to come and the guy said, "Sure, why not?" Well, just before the kid left, the kid asked if it would be okay for his sister to pick him up--he was going to spend the rest of the week at her place there in town. He really didn't want to go back and see the aliens any more. Dad said sure, and let him call his sister. Well about two hours later, the Jerry shows up at the Jr. High and asks to see my Dad--unfortunately, Dad had to go to a meeting and wasn't there, but the school secretary took the message and when my Dad got back, she commented that "Jerry looked kind of shook up." By this time, school was out so Dad decided to stop at City Hall and see just what was up. Anyway, the police chief and the journalist kept their date with infinity--and trucked on out to Pioneer Mountain, west side. Now if you know the Lincoln county area at all, you know that there aren't what you'd call all that many huge flat spots in the coast range. Mostly it's made up of valleys with rather petulant looking hills surrounding. Rivers and creeks got the meander real bad, if you know what I mean. In this particular area, there's a shelter valley west of the mountain with about two or three acres of logged off land that is or was at that time anyway, pasturage for the rather soggy critters that pass for cows in the area. As I said, the police and company (of one) bopped out to the first house (it was the closest) and got out. Right off they could tell that something was not exactly typical Oregon coast--no one inside and all dogs not in evidence. Now usually you'll get inundated with two or three happy but slobbery dogs if you come up on a place around there, but not then. The field that was the mostly likely spot was sheltered from direct view from the driveway so they started up a small access road to see if there really was a saucer there. There was. Now you have to remember--this is at best second or third hand depending on how you count these things, but I know Jerry. He said he saw a saucer. And there they were, walking tree stumps. Still picking up things here and there, and pointing funny looking objects at rather ordinary looking things here and there. I guess the police chief and the reporter just stood there looking at them for about thirty seconds or so and then approached a little closer till they were about 30 yards away from the nearest one. Maybe a hundred yards away from the "ship". The reporter at this point suddenly remembered that he was a reporter and unlimbered the camera he had and as he raised it to begin to focus it, one of the "stumps" pointed a thingamajig at him and the camera when "ssswhip"...... Crackle...... Dead camera, fused optics, the whole smear. The reporter never felt a thing. Just sort of stared dumbly at his worthless camera. Now Jerry, though not the swiftest bear in Lincoln county was, nevertheless, no damn fool and he refrained from jumping up and down, screaming, or even pulling his side arm. Knowing Jerry, he might he even have said something mild like, "Ah, Jeazzzz." The stump looked at the two for awhile, sort like he was daring 'em to try something else and then with a piney shrug, went back to what he was doing, which was picking up leaves and twigs and stuff and stuffing them into a bag. The police chief and the reporter watched a bit more. I guess they decided that nothing else was going to happen, show over and all that, so they turned around and went back to the police car, where they found the father and mother of the school kids looking at them from the now open door of the house. They invited them in for something to drink, and I don't think it was coffee, though it could have been. The parents explained that it seemed that the best thing they could do was not cause a big fuss and just sort of hang around the house when the stumps were out stumping around. After the one cow got sizzled they hadn't had any problems with 'em, and they never did stay too long, so it seemed sort of polite like to just let 'em look around and leave 'em alone. Safer too. Jerry and the reporter agreed. After a bit, Jerry and the reporter decided to call it a day and go home. That's it--all of the story. The saucer went away and as far as I know, didn't come back again--though it's quite possible that it did and I just never heard about it. No one disappeared, except the reporter and that was due to him just plain bugging out. Jerry relayed the story to my dad, and left it at that. One strange thing, though, was that when my dad told the story to a school principal from Siletz, the guy just shrugged as said it was the first time he'd ever heard of the saucer showing up that far south. Generally they landed northwest of Siletz. All during the summer. Figure that out if you like. Me, I don't try to. Siletz always was kind of weird. -eof-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 15 Blind River, Ontario, Canada - Sighting From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 04:51:22 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 04:51:22 -0400 Subject: Blind River, Ontario, Canada - Sighting The following is from Michel Deschamps, MUFON Ontario's Sudbury Section Director. ebk UFO REPORTS FOR 1997 Date: Saturday, June 28, 1997: Location: Near Blind River, Ontario Witnesses: Todd Fraser (705)-675-2825 Michel Deschamps (705)-969-3389 "Karen" (Pseudonym) "Nancy" (Pseudonym) It was sometime between 11:00 p.m. and 12:00 a.m. and there were four of us outside, looking up at the stars. All of a sudden, "Karen" or "Nancy" said: "Look at that red object!" I looked straight up in the direction of the Big Dipper and I saw what looked like a dark red triangle-shaped object that appeared out of nowhere. It headed east and disappeared in less than three seconds. Before it left, I got a glimpse of it with my binoculars and the object had jagged edges and a square forward section. It was dark red in colour, and there were no other lights on or around it. A second and a half later, as I was searching all over the sky with my binoculars for signs of the red object, "Karen" yelled out: "There! Look! Another one!" I couldn't believe it. To the right of the Big Dipper, I caught a glimpse of a dark grey object moving in a straight line. It suddenly flared up to a dull white, then became a bright white egg-shaped object. It then dimmed down to a dull white. And once again, it appeared to be a dark greyish object. The UFO was moving from the southeast to the northwest in a straight line and "flared up" about 11 times in total, at intervals of two seconds duration. It was moving at a relatively slow speed so we had plenty of time to look at it. When it was dark, I looked at it with the binoculars and I could see a dark grey oval-shaped object. When I last saw it through the binoculars, it was still heading northwest and was low over the horizon and I could see the top of a pine tree in the foreground. Before all of this happened, we had seen both a satellite and a high-flying aircraft. Both UFOs were definitely different in both appearance and performance in comparison to the satellite and the plane. NOTE: "Karen" is a drug and alcohol councelor who is widely known throughout Ontario. Because of this, she has requested anonymity. She has previously reported other unusual incidents which seem to indicate that she and her daughter have been abducted several times before. The investigation, as well as the sightings, continue.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 From: werd@interlog.com Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 09:53:10 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 08:39:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 >From: wlmss@peg.apc.org [Lawrie Williams] >Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 11:24:37 +1000 >To: ufo-l@mb.protree.com, updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Zeppelins and Aug 13 1942 Mystery Radiation >> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:58:19 -0400 >> From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> Because it uses an open flame, a carbide lantern will cause an explosion >> in a methane-filled mine. I doubt you'd want carbide lanterns on >> a hydrogen-filled Zeppelin!!!!! > Bob >Airship fires now seem to have had little or nothing to do with the >inflammability of hydrogen. The catastrophic fires were related to the >inflammable skin upon them. A carbide lamp might cause problems in the >immediate aftermath of a serious smash, but by then it would make very >little difference.... >Regarding the scareship mystery, many of the sightings at the turn >of the century were in New Zealand where apparently there were no >airships of any sort. There were multiple consecutive sightings >which kind of rules out hoax or sightings of real airships. The children who reported this "airship" came out about 60 years later confessing that they had been reading a magazine article, and had been "daydreaming" about such an airship. One witness, George McDuff, said that he hadn't seen anything! Another witness, Mrs Broom nea Agnes Falconer, also admitted she saw nothing. Her brother who was a "star witness" also maintains that he saw nothing. This appears to be an early "Doug and Dave" case. Drew Williamson Search for other documents from or mentioning: werd | wlmss | ufo-l |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: 'Rods'? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 10:24:14 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 08:40:54 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> >Subject: re: UFO UpDate: 'Rods'? >Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 13:20:23 -0700 Mark, I think you are right. The stills and videos I've seen so far of these "rods" lead me to believe that we should be calling them bugs instead of rods. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:35:48 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 08:41:59 -0400 Subject: Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site > Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 00:06:25 -0700 > > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/13/97 8:46 PM: > > Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 08:42:46 -0700 (PDT) > > From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site > > In the meanwhile, of course, it is taking all kinds of very good pictures, > > probably including some closer close-up shots of the Cydonia region than > > we'll get from the later circularized orbit. And that will give them > > plenty of time to figure out how to handle the coverup. E.g., that will > > allow them to select inconclusive photos to show to the public first, > > which will only hint that the Face is a genuine artifact, and then after > > the impact of that has been absorbed, they could show more definitive > > ones, etc. That's if they wish to expose this part of the coverup. > > Otherwise, it could give them time to doctor up the photos in some way. > The problem with this kind of "reasoning" is that it > a priori assumes that the Face is an artifact, and > that there is a conspiracy. In the event that the > Face actually is not a remnant of an alien > civilization, then this kind of "reasoning" will be > used to show that it must be an alien artifact anyway. > The problem is that the only answer that would be > acceptable to a person holding this view would be > NASA confirming the Face as an alien artifact. If > they do, they're right. If they don't, they're lying. > It's not a very scientific approach to the problem. > ------- > Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at Mark, The problem is that you do not seem to understand that this is NOT a scientific issue. The facts are: 1) The spacecraft is in orbit now. 2) The public is being told that until the orbit is circularized in March 1998, mapping cannot begin. The point is that the spacecraft is capable of and will be acquiring images now. In fact the eccentricity of the orbit will allow pictures from a lower altitude than after the orbit is circularized. The public will not be shown images NASA has stated until after the "mapping" has begun. So the public is being misled, this is a policy issue and perhaps an intelligence issue. NASA and its scientist Malin who is handling the orbiters photography have issued several evasive and contradictory statements regarding their ability and willingness to image the Cydonia region without prior constraint, let alone image the so called "face". Several peer-reviewed publications by scientists have been written on the Cydonia region which have concluded that the images are not tricks of light and shadows as was previously maintained by NASA, nonetheless NASA and its spokes people have displayed a seemingly unscientific interest in further investigation of this area. Remember NASA is not a wholly civilian scientific agency, there are many factors in play. Even Dan Goldin, NASAs administrator is a self described "Cold Warrior". Gary Alevy Search for other documents from or mentioning: galevy | mcashman |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: Inmann on the Fox 'Special' From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 18:51:31 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 08:42:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Inmann on the Fox 'Special' Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared wrote: > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 01:39:54 -0700 > Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 03:03:55 -0400 > Subject: Re: Inmann on the Fox 'Special' > > > > Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 17:40:42 -0700 > > From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) > > To: Updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Inmann on the Fox special > > Doubters of Inmann's knowledge of classified UFO information need > only > > to listen to Bob Oechsler's tape recorded conversation with him > where > > Inmann makes reference to recovered alien technology which didn't > seem > > out of context at all. > Can't agree with you on that one. It seems pretty clear than Oechsler > was speaking in vague and general terms which could easily have been > attributed to a number of things, including recovery of Soviet > submarine > technology. Inman seemed to be trying to be helpful, but made no > references which were unambiguous. Oechsler never once openly > referred to "alien technology" in any of the material I read that > transcribed that conversation. Yes, I'ver read the rebuttals however I continue to remain skeptical of Inmann's "ignorance". It's difficult to accept that these two men had the conversation they had and neither one knew what each other was talking about in their references and content. Difficult indeed. UFO researchers aren't always the only one's that lie. Occasionally people in the intelligence establishment lie as well. Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 15 Skywatch: 'EMP Pulse' Zaps Art Bell Show Satellite? From: "SKYWATCH" <skywatch@mail.phoenix.net> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 07:10:18 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:49:36 -0400 Subject: Skywatch: 'EMP Pulse' Zaps Art Bell Show Satellite? ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 19:59:05 +0100 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: Richard Gall <MIB@cyborg.force9.co.uk> Subject: EMP pulse zaps Art Bell show satellite? Cc: skywatch@wic.net From: "Jim Kopf" <jimkopf@mail.clark.net> To: jimkopf@mail.clark.net Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 14:34:49 +5 Subject: (Fwd) FW: EMP pulse zaps Art Bell show satellite? Got this today ... forwarding along to you.... ---------- From: BitrrSweet@aol.com Sent: Friday, September 12, 1997 11:15 PM To: NNHobo@msn.com Subject: EMP pulse zaps Art Bell show satellite? From: Wes Thomas <west@sonic.net> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:14:48 +0900 Subject: EMP pulse zaps Art Bell show satellite? The following is a verbatim transcript from Art Bell Show at approximately 1:45 A.M. Friday Sept. 12, 1997 http://ww2.audionet.com/artbell/archive.html#sept97 http://ww2.audionet.com/artbell/archive.html#sept97 (2:35:42 RealAudio elapsed time) Art: On my Area 51 line, you're on the air, hello. Male caller: Hello, Art? Art: Yes Caller [sounds frightened]: I don't have a whole lot of time. Art: Well, look, let's begin by finding out if you're using this line properly or not. Caller: OK, in Area 51? Art: Yes. Are you an employee or are you now? Caller: I'm a former employee. I, I was let go on a medical discharge about a week ago and, and... [chokes] I kind of been running across the country. Damn, I don't know where to start, they're, they're gonna, they'll triangulate on this position really soon. Art: So you can't spend a lot of time on the phone, so give us something quick. Caller [voice breaking up with apparent suppressed crying]: OK, um, um, OK, what we're thinking of as aliens, Art, they're extradimensional beings, that, an earlier precursor of the space program they made contact with. They are not what they claim to be. They've infiltrated a lot of aspects of, of, of the military establishment, particularly the Area 51. The disasters that are coming, they, the military, I'm sorry, the government knows about them. And there's a lot of safe areas in this world that they could begin moving the population to now, Art. Art: So they're not doing, not doing anything. Caller: They are not. They want those major population centers wiped out so that the few that are left will be more easily controllable...." Art [fragment]: ...discharged... Caller [sobbing, then fragment]: I say we g .... [Dead air for 25 seconds, followed by theme song and repeat of Mark Fuhrman interview talking about marijuana busts] [2:29:43 elapsed time] Art: We are now on a backup system....The entire transmitting system went down... Art's radio network engineer later reported that the network's communication satellite lost 50 channels (including Art's feed) at that moment, possibly due to a "lost earth sensor" (so it no longer pointed to the earth station). Art reported that the telephone conversation continued off the air for about a minute, when the caller "screamed" and "screeched" and the telephone connection went dead. Art also reported that his Web site registered 5 million hits just after the outage. Later, a Tucson caller who he said worked for Hughes (which Art said supplies microwave systems to Area 51) reported that his computer memory and electronic watch were zapped at the same time that the broadcast went dead, and suggested both events may have been caused by a cloud-reflected EMP (electromagnetic pulse, which are created by nuclear explosions or by special EMP generator). A caller claiming he was with Area 51 security said: "[We're] Professional cleaners, you know they dig a lot of holes in the desert...I use a lot of acid....We worked with satellite operations in the Gulf War when we cut down certain transmissions...." He predicted the caller would not be calling in again. Speculations: 1. Test of radio network and public response to an EMP pulse disabling the late-night national radio talk show that people are most likely to listen to in event of a disaster. 2. Psyop media manipulation to achieve a specific public effect, perhaps related to a planned bioterrorist or other attack (or simulated attack) in certain cities. Caller sounded convincing but may have, of course, been subjected to electrical shock or other duress in a controlled environment during the call. Questions: 1. Did anyone else note an EMP-like effect (malfunctions or damage to computers, calculators, watches, VCRs, modems, and other electronic devices) at approximately 1:45 A.M. Friday morning? If so, what was the damage and what is your location? 2. How unusual is this type of communications satellite outage? - Wes ===================== From: Kent Steadman <phikent@aol.com> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 05:51:10 -0700 Subject: PULSED! Signal crashes during Area 51 warning CyberSpace ORBIT Kent Steadman, editor (Real Audio) Frantic Area 51 employee on the run delivers apocalyptic WARNING! Radio Signal Mysteriously Crashes. Was the signal electromagnetic pulse (EMP) HAARPED? <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/phikent/kent.htm">Phikent's Home Page</A> It's really worth grabbing the free plugin at: <A HREF="http://www.realaudio.com/">Progressive Networks, The Home of RealAudi o &...</A> Or http://www.realaudio.com You need to hear the inflection of voice and Art's reaction. The caller was on the run and under great stress--he says the Visitors are ultra-terrestrial, and not who they claim the are. He said the impending calamity is not being reported to us by our govt. because "they" want to eliminate poplulation centers so that we will be more easily controlled. He said there ARE safe zones. Scared the poop out of me, Art Bell too, and all the insomniacs still rolling at early AM Kent =========================== From: johnfwin@mlode.com (John F. Winston) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:19:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Man From Area 51 Was On Art Bell. On Thursday night, Sept. 11, 1997 at around 11.00 P.M., Art Bell decided to open up a line to any people who worked at Area 51. He had previously stated that the people at his small town, where he lives, meet early in the morning to get on a bus to go to Area 51, the secret test site in Nevada. The bus even has the words Area 51 written on the sides of the bus. Art then answered the phone and talked with a person who said he worked at Area 51. He was allowed to use the first name of Steve. Here now is the conversation that I started recording after they were talking for a minute or so. Art Bell: My. Well, you know Bob Lazar, who lives in Las Vegas-- Steve: Yes. A very interesting man. AB: Yes indeed. I've interviewed Bob Lazar. S: Yes. AB: And he claims that there have been any number of saucers, actual saucers, recovered saucers, back engineered, that he was part of that. That they were flown out of S-4. Can you confirm his story for starters. S: Yes. It happened, before he was even there. ================= Richard Gall Scotland Director SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL : Http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm Global UFO Network (GLUFON) : Http://www.glufon.com/ International Director Lead Programmer MIB Software : (Site Under Construction). Email: MIB@cyborg.force9.co.uk Pager: Http://wwp.mirabilis.com/510790/ ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International and this list service are not responsible for authenticity of posts. ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International, Inc. skywatch@wic.net "Strange is sometimes stranger when it's true" For latest UFO and Paranormal information Site: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ---------------------------------------------- Search for other documents from or mentioning: skywatch | mib | jimkopf
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: Loy Pressley <lpressle@webwide.net> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 04:49:50 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 12:24:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:15:00 -0700 > > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/10/97 9:26 AM: > > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 06:42:25 -0700 > > From: Loy Pressley <lpressle@webwide.net> > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous <SNIP my comments> First, I have no wish to incite an argument and if I have done so, I apologize! I agree totally with almost all of your comments. I have done a little studying myself (once had a burning urge to be a Biologist) and everything I've seen published agrees with what you say. However; I don't think that we know everything about everything...just because our science today puports to have absolute proof that something must be so doesn't mean that, in fact, it is so. It is just the best idea that we have at the time. Suppose, for example, that it turns out in the end that the conditions we experience in this remote arm of an unremarkable galaxy where we live are not the same conditions that exists in other parts of the universe. Suppose that the speed of light isn't constant everywhere...if that turns out to be true it would certainly answer the current question of why we see stars that appear to be older than the universe itself. While there can be many other answers to this puzzle, it certainly shows that there is some kind of error in the way we are viewing the universe. > Well, let me put it this way: > Life as we know it requires at least two components: In relation to my comments "as we know it" is the key term. What if life elsewhere is not the way we know it? Is there anything but us that says that life elsewhere has to be as we know it? > 1) A self-reproducing polymer with sufficient variability to encode > for other polymers (DNA and RNA are the only ones of which I am aware) > 2) Materials which can be used to make polymers and which can > through more or less direct routes, be manipulated by (1) (in our form > of life, these are amino acids, used to make proteins) > Experiments have shown that amino acids can be formed under conditions > similar to the primitive earth, and, likewise, that proteins and fats can > form into hollow spheres called coacervates, which appear to be primitive > cell membranes. In addition there is some evidence that DNA or RNA > chains can form in certain moist environments, possibly with the catalytic > effect of clay minerals. > > For the initial generation of life's chemical precursors then, we require > > 1) Water > 2) A temperature allowing free water but no so high as to disrupt > polymer or nucleic acid formation > 3) Various CHON compounds in the water > 4) Energy sufficient to stimulate the production of amino acids > (i.e. electrical or UV rays) but not so powerful as to disrupt same > 5) Whatever environments are necessary to form DNA / RNA, > with the same kinds of constraints (surfaces?) > 6) A reasonable pressure environment which allows water to > remain liquid > > Many of these same constraints are required for the continued functioning > of life, but some are more relaxed due to the ability of cells and masses of > cells to protect their internals from somewhat more hostile external > conditions. > > However, even organisms have limits to their heat, radiation, and pressure > tolerances. > > Now, it's fine to speculate on the possibility of other forms > of life, but even if based on some other combinations of chemicals, > not yet found by scientists, which have the requisite properties of > self-reproduction, polymer formation, etc. which would seem required > to create a solid, differentiated organism (and I stress that I am > not aware of any chemicals which are considered as candidates to > replace DNA / RNA in their roles as replicators), there are still > going to be some needs with regard to getting evolution started, > such as the ability of the chemicals to move in the environment, > which implies a liquid environment, temperature and pressure > conditions where chemical interactions are extremely likely and > where the products of such reactions will not immediately be > destroyed. Unlikely environments include the vacuum of space > or surfaces exposed to that vacuum, high energy / radiation > environments, etc. > > Also note that carbon compounds have specific properties which make them > widely useful in constructing living organisms, and those properties are not > shared by other chemicals. That's why organic chemistry is such a large > subject, even though it is only the chemistry of carbon compounds. What are the properties of carbon compounds that are not shared by other chemicals? Are these unique properties true under all conditions? What happens to chemistry when it evolves on a planet that is larger or smaller than earth, has a completely different atmosphere than earth, and orbits a binary or even a trinary star system in a matter of days or in hundreds of years? Would carbon compounds be the only compounds with those specific properties if they were on Jupiter? I don't think we have ever even seen the metallic hydrogen that is supposed to exist at Jupiter's core much less have any idea what happens to chemical compounds at the pressure and immense gravity there. > Now this isn't prejudice, it's just science. I think our science is prejudiced towards 'life as we know it'. Granted; not much progress can take place if we don't have a well anchored starting point and our science is about the best starting point we can have. But...our scientific principals may not hold up under all circumstances and we need to be aware of that and not be so attached to them that we are unwilling to change. > To bring this back to UFOs, the case literature is quite clear > on the nature of the occupants. The vast majority are bilateral, > and bipedal, seem to be able to (at least with the use of > artificial aids) to tolerate our gravity, in some cases can > tolerate our air, use a spectral range similar to ours for vision, > and can even come in physical contact with earth organisms and > chemicals without suffering / causing violent allergic reactions. > These observations seem to largely leave out weird silicon life > forms, or organisms with wildly different biochemistries. Agreed. > > > Maybe because we evolved here we think that earthlike conditions are the > > only conditions able to support life. Who knows...it might not even be > > possible to detect, much less communicate with 'life', that evolved > > under conditions unlike our own. Maybe we need to change our definition > > of what 'life' is. Is a virus alive? I think that one is still being > > argued. > > Well, a virus really inhabits a vague area between being alive and not being > alive. If there were no living organisms, however, there would be no way > for a virus to survive. > > Certainly there is no pressing reason to change our definition of life, but > if we find some weird silicon / sulfur millipede crawling around on Io, I have > no problem with engaging in such a reevaluation. But I suspect even then > it will not require us to change our definition of life, just our concepts of > biochemistry, and that's a lot less fundamental. What is the currently accepted definition of life? I've read quite a few books and there seems to be a lot of disagreement among the experts as to what 'alive' really means. Thanks, Mark, for the opportunity of replying. > > ------- > Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at > http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman > http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront > Original digital art, writing and UFO research > mcashman@ix.netcom.com > --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: UFO Cartoons Festival From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:37:40 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 12:31:53 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Cartoons Festival >From: Pete O <tooner@cartoonsforum.com> >Organization: Internet CARTOONS Forum >To: ufoinfo@cableinet.co.uk >Subject: UFO Cartoons Festival >The UFO Upload Festival should be an entertaining site for both skeptics >and fanatics. Everyone loves cartoons! Pete wants our support, but then he insults us by essentially saying that we are all either skeptics or fanatics!!! Well, excuuuuuuuuuuuse me, Pete, but I am offended by that classification. Why can't an ordinary person believe in UFOs? Bob Search for other documents from or mentioning: 76750.2717 | tooner |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 15 1915 Airship Over Panama From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 12:42:41 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:03:40 -0400 Subject: 1915 Airship Over Panama Here is another report from Dr. Bullard: Winnipeg MANITOBA FREE PRESS, 27 March 1915, Saturday, page 1. AEROPLANE AT PANAMA Canal Authorities Searching Vigorously for Unwelcome Visitor Panama, March 26.--The military and canal authorities are investigating a report reaching headquarters from the officers of the lock guard that an aeroplane has been seen flying over the Pedro Miguel and the Miraflores locks. Major General George W. Goethals, governor of the canal zone, and Brigadier General Clarence B. Edwards, commander of the United States forces in the isthmus, both detailed men to make an exhaustive search fro the machine, which is said to have been seen and heard over the locks last night. The air craft is also reported to have flown over Hill 15, which is heavily entrenched and located to the east of the Pedro Miguel locks, of whose defense it forms a part. It is known that a Bleriot machine is owned on the isthmus at present, but its whereabouts has not yet been ascertained. Possibly the investigation of this sighting survives in official files. The reports from this era are interesting as many are found almost world-wide. The age of flight certainly captured the popular imagination everywhere. -- Jan Aldrich Project 1947 http://www.iufog.org/project1947/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 12:47:16 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:02:03 -0400 Subject: Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/15/97 8:41 AM: > Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:35:48 -0400 > From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site > > It's not a very scientific approach to the problem. > > ------- > > Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at > Mark, > The problem is that you do not seem to understand that > this is NOT a scientific issue... (big snip) Gary - Yes, I do understand the "politics" of the situation. Although I am at a loss to understand why NASA would not exploit the discovery of signs of ET life, since an instant budget boost could be expected, particularly if the signs were "archaological" and did not appear to represent a "current" presence. The problem is that, in science, you must be able to accept negative (disconfirming) evidence. The attitude that "NASA is lying if they tell us Cydonia isn't an artifact", immediately makes moot any information NASA will provide unless it is "Cydonia is an artifact". Now, anyone interested in the subject knows that there are three possible answers to "Is Cydonia an artifact": Yes. No. Maybe. 1) What does it take to produce a Maybe answer? a) No known geological process(es) can account for the formation. b) No combination of geological process(es) and image processing errors can account for the formation. c) No similar formation which has a known natural cause can be found in similar photos of Earth. 2) I think that if all of these criteria are met, we have a case for an "unknown". But it is not a case for the Yes answer, yet. Why? a) Mars has an unusual geology - extensive subsurface permafrost and permafrost modified landforms, unusual aeolian effects from long duration wind patterns and lack of other normal erosive forces (water, biology, etc.), and, finally, lack of plate tectonics yet active volcanism. b) Mars has an unusual climate - major variations in temperature, atmospheric pressure and composition, dust cycles, etc, many of which have no parallels on] earth. c) Mars has no major intrinsic magnetic field - the induced magnetic field offers some protection from solar wind particles, but we do not yet know of any effects from such particles which might get through on erosive processes; for instance it is well known that the Martian soil chemistry is unusual and active, possibly due to such particles, or possibly due to the UV flux which arrives through Mars thinner atmosphere, and this active soil chemistry might, in conjunction with or separately from the permafrost component of the Martian crust / regolith, lead to unusual erosive patterns. Again, because of the lack of tectonics and the long time spans during which Martian landforms exist, we cannot necessarily predict the consequences. 3) However, it is easier to arrive at a no answer. All we need is for one or more of the criteria of point (1) above to be met. Now, to get a Yes is much harder, at least if we are relying on remote sensing (such as orbital photography). a) Unambiguously artificial features - girders, struts, glass, antennae, which cast unambiguous shadows across background features (thinness indicates a low probability of naturalness, in a geologic environment). b) Unambiguous evidence of continuing changes to the formation or to accessory formations. c) Unambiguous signs of construction machinery and/or roads used in construction or operation. d) Unambiguous evidence (perhaps via radar or temperature sensing) of "hollowness". Without these, I am unclear as to how a yes can be proven by remote sensing. a) Regular cracks and even rectilinear jointing can be geologically formed. b) Euclidean (regular) shapes can be geologically formed and can be made even odder looking by erosional processes, particularly in a permafrost environment. c) In a faulted area producing regular volcanic and or fault-related formations, the production of several similar-appearing formations of similar and varied dimensions can be expected. Minor variations due to slumping and erosion can be expected. In short, there are lots of ways for geology to produce odd looking but quite natural formations, and Mars seems to have quite a few of these. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: MUFON Journal Muses From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 12:35:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:06:02 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON Journal Muses > Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:49:04 -0500 (CDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MUFON Journal Muses > >Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:57:20 -0400 > >From: Theresa <110213.3274@compuserve.com> > >Subject: UFO UpDate: MUFON Journal Muses > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >But as long as you've touched on that, would you tell us, for > >the record, how and who to send submissions for the Journal > >to. What form is best, etc. Are submissions from non-members > >also considered? And any other information along that line that you > >think mightbe useful. Thanks! > >Regards, > > Theresa > Anybody can contribute. > And I can handle just about any format imaginable, Mac, PC disk, > email, manuscript, fax, etc., although fax is the least reliable and > desirable. >Hard copy can be mailed to: > Dennis Stacy > Box 12434 > San Antonio > Texas 78212 > Make any hard copy only submissions as neat and clean as possible, so > they can be scanned. > Dennis Mr. Stacy: How many words would you like for the article proving Ed Walters hoaxed his photos? Barbara Search for other documents from or mentioning: c549597 | dstacy |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: Re: 'Rods'? From: Michael Curta <UFOMedic@net1comm.com> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 15:10:03 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:50:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Re: 'Rods'? >Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 10:24:14 -0400 >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Rods'? >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> >>Subject: re: UFO UpDate: 'Rods'? >>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 13:20:23 -0700 >Mark, >I think you are right. The stills and videos I've seen so >far of these "rods" lead me to believe that we should be >calling them bugs instead of rods. >Bob Hi Bob, I think you need to look again! If you go to the web site you can clearly see the difference between BUGS and RODS. Where have you ever seen a bug several feet long or longer? Michael Search for other documents from or mentioning: ufomedic | 76750.2717 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 19:47:05 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:52:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Aircraft/UFO Encounters Prior to 1942 This thread has gone rather far afield from the original post. I would like to ask researcher's help in locating aircraft/UFO encounters during World War I. I remember reading in my father's psychology text book (circa 1920) about sightings of strange things in the air from aircraft especially in World War I. The authors contend that these sightings were illusions. The explanations for these illusions were the rarefied air and pilot fatigue. (BTW the authors also stated that there would be not more wars on the scale of World War I as the machine gun had made such conflicts unthinkable.) This book is not longer available--lost in a move. Jeff Lindell told me he had also ran across a brief reference to strange aerial sightings by French World War I fighter pilots. It said that the sightings were announced in notices about the flying weather. Lindell cannot locate the reference. Paris Flammonde also make a brief reference to such sightings in one of his books. Last week, a French researcher told me years ago that he too had seen a similar French reference to World War I sightings by French pilots. Again, we do not have an exact reference. Moving on to World War II: I have four sightings by ferry pilots and crews. They are in the North Atlantic, South Atlantic and at a training base near Santa Barbara, California. A few years ago we had only a vague reference to phantom Zeppelins during World War I. Now we have dozens. Hopefully, we can find additional reports from World War I pilots. -- Jan Aldrich Project 1947 http://www.iufog.org/project1947/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: UFO sighting with John Velez From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:15:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 23:04:39 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: "UFO Updates (E-mail)" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO sighting with John Velez >Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:56:48 -0400 Hi Errol, Greg, All, Greg writes, >I'm sure most of us have read John Velez, when he writes about his >sightings over his home in Queens, NY. >Since he's a friend of mine, I hear about the sightings first hand. >On Saturday, 9/13, I visited him and - much to my surprise! - I saw >something, too. I've been trying all summer to get someone out to the house to simply sit with me during one of my skywatches. I've been praying for a multiple witness sighting so that I could get my sightings corroborated by another set of eyes. And now,...Eureka! >Why was I surprised? Three reasons. >1. I've never had a UFO sighting, or even thought for half a second >that I was having one. I don't expect to look in the sky and see >something strange. I have had more than a dozen sightings in the last two years, sometimes involving large numbers of these objects (as many as 14.) Prior to that, I had only had six sightings which were widely scattered over time (the rest of my 48 year lifespan) Anyone, who spends enough time looking up and educating themselves about the 'contents' of the sky will eventually see one of these unique and very unusual objects. The vast majority of the sightings I have had have been right from my own backyard! >2. I've felt strange about John's sightings, even though he's a >friend. I know he doesn't lie, but...how can he see so many UFOs? I >haven't known what to think. You're not alone Greg. I have repeatedly posted jpeg samples of single frame captures from my videos that clearly show disc shaped craft in the sky, countless photos, with enlargements, and enhancements and I have not recieved a _single_ posted response to them. I had hoped that some folks would give em a serious look see and report on their findings or express their opinions as to what these things are. I've seen too many of them (and sometimes pretty close up) to be confused about them myself. They are not ours. They don't look like our aircraft, (they move irratically and they glow in neon colors _in broad daylight!) They simply don't fly like our (or _any_ known) aircraft, plus,... they respond to thought! Our aircraft just aren't capable (yet) of responding (immediately) to telepathic requests from an observer on the ground. (Which is precisely what these 'things' have done for me on more than one occasion.) I've been holding back some of these details because I thought I'd already given everyone more than enough reason (in my posted UFO reports) to have me isolated and medicated. <G> >3. I messed up my schedule, and only got to John's around 5:45 PM. >That left barely an hour of daylight. How likely was a guest >appearance by a UFO? Depends on if "they" knew what time you would ETA at my shack! <VBG> > But here's what happened. Greg, thank you for (so bravely) reporting publicly. You can't imagine how much it means to me to have the sightings corroborated by another. There's been so many of em recently that I was beginning to feel like the 'bugs' were just screwing with my head. >Let me jump ahead here, and point out something that helps explain why >>John might see things while other people don't. He's VERY good at >watching >the sky. And I don't just say that because he spotted this >apparent UFO >long before I was able to. Later on, he'd point out birds >and balloons >that I couldn't see. He'd keep pointing, and saying "Follow >my finger!" >But only after the objects would fall in line with something >obvious - >"Look at the TV antenna," he'd say, "then move your eyes directly up" >- could I find them. That's twenty-six years of astronomy, combined with countless hours of naked eye and optically assisted observation of day and night skies. I _am_ a highly skilled sky observer. No BS. >That's what happened with this unusual thing we saw. He kept >pointing, and directing me, and finally I spotted it. "See the big >cloud, and smaller one on the right? Look between them." I looked, >and there it was - a small bright pinpoint. Imagine if the stars >shone by day, and you'd spotted a bright one. That might give you an >idea of what this looked like. The color was silvery white. The 'Hockey Puck" that you saw is identical to the ones that have been videotaped and photographed in Arizona, Mexico, Japan, and several Central and South American countries as well. They are everywhere! It's why I'm asking those that are incredulous of my reports to simply spend some time looking up, no matter where they may be located. This is a global (not local) phenomenon. >So what was it? Beats me. I've never seen anything like it before. >With the naked eye, it was like a star shining in daylight. It was an U-nidentified F-lying O-bject! <VBG> >Finally it disappeared. I wasn't watching when it did. I thought I'd >pan the binocs around a bit, to get a sense of the background of >whatever this was. As I moved my view away from the thing, I heard >John say "It's gone." I moved the binocs around, trying to spot it >again, and couldn't find it. I couldn't spot it by eye, either. >According to John, it had simply vanished (which of course might also >mean that it flew away so quickly that we couldn't see its path). I agree. I've seen them beat cheeks out of the vicinity on more than one occasion and from a dead standstill. It's an awesome (breathtaking) manouver to witness. The one we were observing was too far away to see if it had suddenly departed or simply disappeared. I reported to you what I had observed, one second it was big, bright and there, and then it was gone completely the next. I suspect that the explanation that you offered is much more likely than that it simply vanished. I have seen them streak away at 'warp speed!' >I can only say that this thing, whatever it was, was not like >anything I've ever seen before. It's the first thing I've ever seen >in the sky that I couldn't readily identify. I hope that this is only "one of many" UFO sightings that you and others will have. "They" are becoming very brazen. Out in broad daylight, flying with complete impunity in our skies. As if they didn't care anymore whether anyone sees them or not. >Sorry if I've gone into exhausting detail. Since I'm corroborating >some very provocative sightings of John's, I thought it was better to >say too much than too little. Thank you, thank you, thank you. You're a courageous SOB for reporting. Not very many would have 'put their bacon on the line' for me like you are doing. You have much to lose and absolutely nothing to gain by it. You are a real Mensch! >John took photographs of whatever it was, and gave me the film. After >I've developed it, I'll scan a shot, and upload it here. I figured that by giving you the film to develop it would eliminate the possibility of people accusing me of 'doctoring' the photos. All I did was snap em. The rest is up to you. Send a copy of the original negatives of the UFO to Bob Shell and ask _him_ to take a look at them. I have so much of that stuff on file already that I don't mind having a few negatives 'floating around.' I want these things seen and analyzed by as many people as possible. I think it's important. In fact, I think it's urgent. John Velez John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: UFO Cartoons Festival From: Pete O <tooner@cartoonsforum.com> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 12:38:45 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 23:09:40 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Cartoons Festival > Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:37:40 -0400 > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO Cartoons Festival > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >From: Pete O <tooner@cartoonsforum.com> > >Organization: Internet CARTOONS Forum > >To: ufoinfo@cableinet.co.uk > >Subject: UFO Cartoons Festival > >The UFO Upload Festival should be an entertaining site for both skeptics > >and fanatics. Everyone loves cartoons! > Pete wants our support, but then he insults us by essentially saying that > we are all either skeptics or fanatics!!! > Well, excuuuuuuuuuuuse me, Pete, but I am offended by that classification. > Why can't an ordinary person believe in UFOs? > Bob Hi Bob! My description was not intended to offend. The UFO Cartoons Festival is by no means for ONLY skeptics and fanatics. All the "ordinary people" (people like you and me, most probably), who fill the big gap between those extremes will quite likely enjoy the Festival too. Feel free to edit my description, or write your own, if that suits you. - Pete O (tooner@cartoonsforum.com) Online Host - Internet CARTOONS Forum http://www.cartoonsforum.com Barkeep - The Cartoon Bar palace://cartoonsforum.com:9994 Net Guide - Cartooning at The Mining Company http://cartooning.miningco.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: tooner | 76750.2717 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 15 1909 Delaware/New Location for Airships From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:01:48 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 23:52:18 -0400 Subject: 1909 Delaware/New Location for Airships Carl Feindt continues to tear into the Delaware newspapers. Probably no state in the US has been so thoroughly researched. Here is an article which may lead to other "airship" stories in a time and place not previously known for such reports. -- Jan Aldrich Project 1947 http://www.iufog.org/project1947/ ===================================================================== Wilminton, Delaware MORNING NEWS, 2 August 1909 SEE AIRSHIPS AT NIGHT People of Middletown Tell Tales of Ghostly Dirigible with Lights MIDDLETOWN, August 1.--A mysterious airship which flies only at night is causing considerable excitement and keeping the people of Orange county residing between Goshen and Newburg up nights in their efforts to get a look at it. For the past month persons who have been out late at night have reported seeing an airship, but few believed the stories. For a week or more the flying machine had not been seen, but at 11 o'clock last night it made its appearance near Goshen. It was flying hgih in the air and carried a light which attracted attention. It flew very fast and was last seen traveling in the direction of Newburg. Those who have seen the machine say it is shaped like a balloon and has wings on each side and a cigar-shaped car underneath. The sound of a motor was distinctly heard by those who saw the machine. =====================================================================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 15 The Scientific Method From: John Koopmans <john.koopmans@sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:11:10 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 23:54:44 -0400 Subject: The Scientific Method On a light note.... The following is quoted from Michio Kaku's enlightening book: Hyperspace: A Scientific Odyssey Through Parallel Universes, Time Warps, and the 10th Dimension, New York: Oxford University Press, 1994 (pg. 118): A scientist once trained a flea to jump whenever he rang a bell. Using a microscope, he then anesthetized one of the flea's legs and rang the bell again. The flea still jumped. The scientist then anesthetiized another leg and then rang the bell. The flea still jumped. Eventually, the scientist anesthetized more and more legs, each time ringing the bell, and each time recording that the flea jumped. Finally, the flea had only one leg left. When the scientist anesthetized the last leg and rang the bell, he found to his surprise that the flea no longer jumped. Then the scientist solemnly declared his conclusion, based on irrefutable scientific data: Fleas hear through their legs! Cheers.. John K.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: 'Rods'? From: rjke@webtv.net (Jose and Karen Escamilla) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:53:34 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 00:29:10 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? >Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 10:24:14 -0400 >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Rods'? >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Mark, >I think you are right. The stills and videos I've seen so >far of these "rods" lead me to believe that we should be >calling them bugs instead of rods. >Bob I don't know how plain and simple it is to show someone like Bob that these are not insects!!! The cave Rod clearly shows a Rod object whose torso is covered by most of the shadow being cast by the rim of the cave, while a small section is still in sunlight. Now if this is an insect, I want Bob to prove to me that such a shadow can be cast across a blur and such a small thing as an insect's torso. Aside from this, we are going out on the field and will be shooting with stereo camera setups so that we can get accurate measurmenets, speeds, etc., of these objects. I can see that Bob's immediate reaction is that we are simply mis-filming insects. I have proven that we are not, and that these objects are very real. The next step in our investigation is to document them using scientific methods. If Bob is any kind of a professional, he would not have made a quick dewcision upon a few stills from videos. He or she, if Bob Shell is just a shell for some agency, would have asked for video tape footage to analyze. We have evidence from 23 states, some videos, some reports, and these have been done by independent videographers, in case Bob decides to call this a hoax. The Rods are very real, and we will prove more about them as we get along with the investigation. We are covering all the "pros and cons" pertaining to debunkers such as Bob Shell, so their alternate explanations hold "no water" when it comes to easily explaining away the Rods phenomena. If I seem a bit harsh on Old Bob here, it's because Bob has not shown me his or her credentials that would lead me to believe that this person is of sound mind and not some kook out there that claims to be something other than what he or she really is. The obvious is shown by the stills, this guy is obviously not too bright. At least he could have said we were faking it. This is all Skeptical Inquirer and the others can claim anymore...:-) They didn't even want to touch the bug theory, because they knew I had covered that. You should take their lead and stick to the only plausible explanation, which I can disprove by the amounts of independent evidence we have "not videotaped" by me. Anyway, an end to the so called bug theories. Bob these are not insects...we repeat...these are not insects....your observations are as silly as your claims. They hold "no water" just an empty shell... Sincerely, Jose Escamilla
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: 'Rods'? From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 01:41:58 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:52:17 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/15/97 10:50 PM: > From: Michael Curta <UFOMedic@net1comm.com> > To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net>, > Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Rods'? > Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 15:10:03 -0600 > >Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 10:24:14 -0400 > >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> > >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Rods'? > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > >>Subject: re: UFO UpDate: 'Rods'? > >>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 13:20:23 -0700 > >Mark, > >I think you are right. The stills and videos I've seen so > >far of these "rods" lead me to believe that we should be > >calling them bugs instead of rods. > >Bob > Hi Bob, > I think you need to look again! If you go to the web site you can clearly > see the difference between BUGS and RODS. Where have you ever seen a bug > several feet long or longer? > Michael Michael - First, tell me how you know how long they are. A single photo cannot tell that without a shadow cast on an object of known size at a known distance with a known sun elevation and azimuth, or without triangulation. Second, think about what happens when a shutter is open if an insect whips by crossing most of the angular extent of the film in the time the shutter is open: it is both blurred and extended in appearance. The wings will create a sine wave shape that is semi-transparent as opposed to the more solid appearance of the body. If the insect is close enough, it will be further blurred, because the camera lens is focused beyond it. The sine wave of the wing will have a period based on the time the shutter is open, the frequency of wing motion, and any wing pitch changes used by the insect for attitude correction. Some simple calculations can be used to determine how close the insect has to be in order to cover a specific area on the film. For instance, an insect a little over a half inch long at a distance of a third of an inch will cover 10 degrees of the field of view. Of course, the same insect can be smaller, so long as it travels 10 degrees in the 60th of a second the shutter is open, and its image will still cover 10 degrees of view. Or, the insect can be the same size but more distant. Thus - rods... ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com -------------------------------- Search for other documents from or mentioning: mcashman | ufomedic |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 16 'The Strangest UFO Sighting You Have Ever Heard' From: Michael Curta <UFOMedic@net1comm.com> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 23:52:00 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:59:59 -0400 Subject: 'The Strangest UFO Sighting You Have Ever Heard' Michael Curta Colorado MUFON State Director will be a guest on "Sightings On The Radio" with Jeff Rease Friday September 19 1997 6-9 PM PST. Michael will be talking about one of the strangest UFO sighting you have ever heard. The event occurred in July of this year and resulted in two people being hospitalized and a Haz-Mat response from a Metro Denver Fire Department. The witnesses to the event who are now out of the hospital and doing better will join Jeff and Michael. You can tune into "Sighting on the Radio" using Netshow or Real Audio at www.sightings.com if the show is not carried in your area.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: UFO sighting with John Velez From: rfsignal@sprynet.com Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 04:18:44 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:07:32 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez Dear John, I hate to say this, but I told you so. I did tell you that there was a lot going on above the busy city lights. How many people think to look up on such a nice bright day to catch a glimpse of something? Are all those people around you such cattle with their heads so deep in the grass? Probably. There are a number of large population urban areas that are literally spaceports of activity. Now we know that cities like, New York, Toronto, Chichago, and etc. are actually very busy places in more ways than one. The abductions continue. Take care for now, Cathy Johnson PS: Do you know where your children have been, really?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: 'Rods'? From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 03:11:58 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:02:53 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? > From: rjke@webtv.net (Jose and Karen Escamilla) > Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:53:34 -0600 > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: Bob Shell - bug theory > I don't know how plain and simple it is to show someone like Bob that > these are not insects!!! Lucky Bob, getting all the heat while I escape unscathed, even though I beat him to the opinion first (sorry, Bob). In any case, it IS plain and simple. Provide a reliable triangulation. If the rod does show at the same time in two cameras spaced some distance apart (tens to hundreds of feet), SMPTE time-coded for synch, the azimuth and elevation of the cameras can be used to determine distance and size. Without those measurements, nothing is proven. Remember, unlike UFOs, there are no "rods" eyewitnesses. > The cave Rod clearly shows a Rod object whose torso is covered by most > of the shadow being cast by the rim of the cave, while a small section > is still in sunlight. Now if this is an insect, I want Bob to prove to > me that such a shadow can be cast across a blur and such a small thing > as an insect's torso. Why is it so hard to understand that if you take a time exposure of an object crossing light to shadow that the part of the resulting image which represents the object in light will be bright, the part on the shadow line will be part in shadow part not, and the part within shadow will be dark? You can test this with a time exposure of a ball thrown from within a cave to outside, using a conventional camera. > Aside from this, we are going out on the field and will be shooting with > stereo camera setups so that we can get accurate measurmenets, speeds, > etc., of these objects. I can see that Bob's immediate reaction is that > we are simply mis-filming insects. I have proven that we are not, and > that these objects are very real. Not without the measurements you haven't. > The next step in our investigation is > to document them using scientific methods. At that point, given that your measurements can be reproduced by independent researchers, your claims can be taken seriously. > We have evidence from 23 states, some videos, some reports, and these > have been done by independent videographers, in case Bob decides to call > this a hoax. The Rods are very real, and we will prove more about them > as we get along with the investigation. We are covering all the "pros > and cons" pertaining to debunkers such as Bob Shell, so their alternate > explanations hold "no water" when it comes to easily explaining away the > Rods phenomena. You know, if you were being scientific, the "D" word would have no place in your vocabulary. I don't think you are considering what it takes to prove the claim. It is not enough that many people have filmed these objects. Take a look at the detail of Maccabee's analysis of the Gulf Breeze photos and reflect that their reality is still in dispute, and perhaps you will gain some perspective on appropriate standards of proof. In some of those cases we have multiple witnesses, multiple photographers, triangulation, and people actually saw them with their eyes. To the best of my knowledge, "rods" have none of these. BTW its important to take into account the flight speeds of insects. Have you done this and attempted to back into "rod" angular sizes and rates? For instance, "The Insects: Structure and Function" shows that Schistocerca flies at an average 3 m /sec. This would be about 6 ft /sec. In a minute, such an insect would fly 360 feet. In 1/10000 of a sec, it would fly .0009 feet or .01 inches. .01 inches translates into an angular distance of 10 degrees at a distance of .1 inch (assuming all the changes I made to my spreadsheet hang together). You see what I mean? > If I seem a bit harsh on Old Bob here, it's because Bob has not shown me > his or her credentials that would lead me to believe that this person is > of sound mind and not some kook out there that claims to be something > other than what he or she really is. The obvious is shown by the stills, > this guy is obviously not too bright. Weakness of evidence is not reduced by personal attacks. What you seem to be unwilling to participate in is the scientific process. If data is provided, and a hypothesis is advanced which is testable, the tests must be performed before the hypothesis is invalidated. In addition, it is not enough for the initial experimenter to perform the invalidating tests. Anyone must be able to do so. My hypothesis is that "rods" are bugs. The hypothesis assumes certain things which can be falsified by: a) Taking "rods" photos in environments where no bugs can be present. b) Using verifiable triangulation procedures to demonstrate that "rods" are at distances from the camera which makes their angular size representative of large actual sizes. > Anyway, an end to the so called bug theories. Bob these are not > insects...we repeat...these are not insects....your observations are as > silly as your claims. They hold "no water" just an empty shell... The website states: "There's no way you can mistake one form from the other. At all of the other settings AUTO, NORMAL and CANDLE LIGHT, Rod-like images were produced by insects and birds flying past the camera or near the lens. Although they resemble Rod objects at these shutter settings, there are certain features that are distinct enough for anyone to determine whether or not it was an insect, bird or Rod that was taped, even at the lower settings." Yet there is no indication of what these "certain features" are. And isn't it indicative that "rod-like images were produced"? The website is full of statements which are not substantiated, especially regarding distance, which cannot be substantiated without triangulation. Such as: "The insect and the Rod in the above frames were videotaped at the 1/10,000 shutter setting. This obviously reveals an insect very close to the camera lens and a Rod passing some distance from the camera." How can the distance to the rod be determined from one image or even multiple video frames from a single location? It can't. In another location, the claim is made: "In the embossed frame you can see the Rod is behind the power line." However, a quick examination shows that the image of the "rod" darkens the image of the wire where it crosses the wire, indicating that the wire is seen through the "rod". The algorithm used for embossing uses edge detection to perform embossing and does not handle this kind of data. Another page claims "This huge Rod was videotaped..." but of course, without knowing the distance, the size of the "rod" cannot be determined. I appreciate that you are excited by the possibility of having discovered a new phenomenon. However, this does not make you immune from having to produce the measurements required to confirm it before asserting the reality of the phenomenon. If eyewitnesses had ever seen "rods", it would be less difficult, but the most basic knowledge of UFO photos shows that objects unseen by the eye are the most suspect, and that blurs can take on the most astonishing shapes. I call your attention to the Williamette Pass photo, which apparently fooled even Jacques Vallee for a number of years, but which turned out to be a blurred roadsign. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: 'Rods'? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 07:30:23 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:10:42 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? >From: Michael Curta <UFOMedic@net1comm.com> >To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net>, >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Rods'? >Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 15:10:03 -0600 >I think you need to look again! If you go to the web site you can clearly >see the difference between BUGS and RODS. Where have you ever seen a bug >several feet long or longer? Michael, I'm very willing to look again. I didn't claim in my short post that I had looked at all images of "rods", just that the ones I had looked at looked insects to me. Since images are up on a number of web sites, tell me which specific one you think has convincing images and I'll take a look. I've got no vested interest one way or another in this. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: 'Rods'? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 07:49:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:13:42 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? Hi list, Look, I didn't ask to get involved in this controversy over "rods". Someone else asked my opinion. I answered honestly. So why do I get a weird public post and a threatening private one from someone??? My credentials have been posted numerous times in the past, and I think anyone who cares already knows what they are. Anyone who doesn't know can go to the archives. I have no real interest in this whole bit with the so-called "rods". I'm not really interested in searching for tiny UFOs when we've got really big ones to contend with. I'll look at images if people care to tell me which ones they find convincing and where they are. Bob Shell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: 'Rods'? From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Mon, 01 Jan 96 20:10:21 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:15:10 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? >From: Michael Curta <UFOMedic@net1comm.com> >To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net>, >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Rods'? >Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 15:10:03 -0600 >I think you need to look again! If you go to the web site you can clearly >see the difference between BUGS and RODS. Where have you ever seen a bug >several feet long or longer? I really think that this whole flap about "Rods" is a hoax... perpetrated intentionally for financial reasons by the photographer, who claimed (on a Compuserve forum) to try to help pay off his camera equipment... Roger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 16 Mark Rodeghier of CUFOS to discuss Area 51 From: "Diana Hopkins" <DDBH@classic.msn.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 97 13:49:45 UT Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:06:48 -0400 Subject: Mark Rodeghier of CUFOS to discuss Area 51 On Tuesday, September 16th, at 6pm, PT, Project: watchfire and UFO Forum will host a live chat with Mark Rodeghier, director of The Center for UFO Studies (CUFOS) to discuss Area 51 - it's past and present. The chat is accessible through http://watchfire.msn.com.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: The Scientific Method From: "WHITE" <mjawhite@digitaldune.net> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 07:44:36 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:21:20 -0400 Subject: Re: The Scientific Method > Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:11:10 -0700 > From: John Koopmans <john.koopmans@sympatico.ca> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: The Scientific Method John K. wrote: > On a light note.... > The following is quoted from Michio Kaku's enlightening book: > Hyperspace: A Scientific Odyssey Through Parallel Universes, > Time Warps, and the 10th Dimension, > New York: Oxford University Press, 1994 (pg. 118): > A scientist once trained a flea to jump whenever he rang a bell. Using a > microscope, he then anesthetized one of the flea's legs and rang the > bell again. The flea still jumped. > The scientist then anesthetiized another leg and then rang the bell. The > flea still jumped. > Eventually, the scientist anesthetized more and more legs, each time > ringing the bell, and each time recording that the flea jumped. > Finally, the flea had only one leg left. When the scientist anesthetized > the last leg and rang the bell, he found to his surprise that the flea > no longer jumped. > Then the scientist solemnly declared his conclusion, based on > irrefutable scientific data: Fleas hear through their legs! To all: Dr. Kaku, in describing the mass of experimental data in particle physics research during the 1960s, preceded that story with: "Looking back at all the blind alleys and false starts in particle physics during that period, one is reminded of the story of the scientist and the flea." I know I must have missed the point of the story when I first read it because, I stopped there and tried to find out, "How do fleas hear, anyhow?" John White
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 16 Posting Rules for this List From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:52:25 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:52:25 -0400 Subject: Posting Rules for this List Posting Rules To help current and future readers of UFO UpDates' posts and the UFO UpDates Instant Archive software at: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates please observe the following rules when posting to the List. 1. Line-length Please make your lines no more than 70 characters long ------------------------This line is 70 characters--------------------- Longer lines are wrapped by various pieces of software along the Net and leave awkward and eye-jarring line lengths. 2. Attribution When responding to a message from the List, _always_ include the four line 'header' from the body of that message at the start of _your_ message - eg.: >Date: 01 Jan 97 00:00:01 EST >From: Genghis@mukluk.com <Bob Bobberts> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Grays are Grey Area Again - it's at the beginning of the 'body' of the message you are responding to. 3. Quoting _Always_ quote from the message to which you are responding. Quotes should come _before_ you key your response. Start each quoted line with a 'greater-than' sign (>) as the first character. It should look like this: >Start each quoted line with a 'greater-than' sign (>) as the >first character. It should look like this: Keep quoted material from previous messages to a minimum: Just quote enough text to let people know what you are referring to. Messages that do not utilize the required quoting protocol or contain excessive quoting will not be posted to UpDates. The Archive software will automatically italicize these lines. Visit the Archive page and take a look. Most modern E-Mail software will allow the user to click a 'Reply' button and automatically open a new window, with the message being responded to inserted with universal quote-mark (>) at the beginning of each line. When 'Reply' is clicked, some E-Mail software will insert a line which states: On 01 Jan 97 at 00:00:01 EST, UFO UpDates wrote: If your program does this, please remove it - UFO UpDates did not _write_ the message - it merely posted it to the List. 5. Don't send 'personal' responses to the list that should be sent directly to the original author. Send a message to the list only if it contains new information that you want _everyone_ to see. Messages that contain what the List Administrator considers to be personal attacks or 'flames' will not be posted to the List. Those messages will be forwarded to the person they refer to for their information. 6. URLs (Web Site addresses) _must_ include 'http://' and be on one line. The Archive software will make the URL a 'click-able' link to that address in your archived message. ------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 16 'The UFO Evidence: Volume II' From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:23:19 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:49:25 -0400 Subject: 'The UFO Evidence: Volume II' Earlier this year the old UFO Evidence was re-released by Barnes and Noble. The UFO Evidence is timeless. Dr. James McDonald re-investigated many of its cases. His findings confirmed the importance of this compendium as a representative sample of the UFO phenomenon. The work on Volume 2 of the UFO Evidence is now in its final stages. The UFO Evidence, Vol. 2, continues the examination of the UFO phenomenon starting from the year 1964. Some of the best and most evidential cases for the last 30 years will be examined in detail. The second volume will contain far more foreign material than the original volume. Important new aspects and developments of the phenomenon will be considered. Richard Hall, editor of the first volume, has worked on the second volume for about two years. Final fact checking and re-fromating to the Barnes and Noble style manual are the main tasks now. The release date will be sometime next spring. The second volume will use a format similar to the first, but it will be expanded and modified to take into account new developments in the UFO problem. There will be many more cases than in the first volume, and many cases will generally be described in much greater detail. The body of cases available for the second volume are generally better investigated and more detailed than those in the first volume. NICAP's investigative subcommittee system became very effective in the late 1960's after the first volume was published. The very reason for the great impovement may have been The UFO Evidence. The calibre of people who volunteered for the subcommittees after The UFO Evidence was published increased dramatically. The "UFO Underground" as Hall likes to refer to it partially broke into the open. The official UFO files: Project Blue Book, USAF Headquarters Intelligence files, and other documents were essentially unavailable at the time the first volume was written. The UFO Evidence, II, will present a serious basis for further discussion of the phenomenon. -- Jan Aldrich Project 1947 http://www.iufog.org/project1947/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 16 'Whirlwind' in Georgia From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:42:48 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:01:29 -0400 Subject: 'Whirlwind' in Georgia Thanks to Michael Hitt, a Georgia police officer and historical writer, for this item. This may be more Fortean than ufological. Marietta (Georgia) JOURNAL, 28 July 1881. YOUNG WOMEN IN A WHIRL-WIND Americus, Georgia Republican Mr. Z. T. Baisden gives us the following story of a whirlwind that visited his place about 12 o'clock on Monday, scaring all his hands and some visitors very badly. A whirlwind occurred in a twelve acre cornfield that was about four feet in diameter and sometimes a hundred feet high. The body of it was perfectly black, with fire in the centre and emitted a stong sulphurous vapor that could be smelt three hundred yards form it. The whirlwind would divide into three and move rapidly over the field, twisting up the corn stalks by the roots and carrying them up. These three minor whirlwinds would then come together with a loud crash, cracking and burning and shoot high up into the heavens. Three young ladies who were visiting Mrs. Baisden went in about 150 feet to observe it, but received such a shower of burning sand upon their face and necks that they ran affrighten to the house. Mr. Baisden says that he cannot account for this strange pehomenon, and it certainly frightened all who saw it. The strange part was that it contained fire, yet did not appear to burn the corn that it did not tear up, and its sulphurous vapor sickened and burnt all who got close enough to get a full breath of it. -- Jan Aldrich Project 1947 http://www.iufog.org/project1947/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:04:59 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:03:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/15/97 12:24 PM: > Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 04:49:50 -0700 > From: Loy Pressley <lpressle@webwide.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > > Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:15:00 -0700 > > > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 06:42:25 -0700 > > > From: Loy Pressley <lpressle@webwide.net> > > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > However; I don't think that we know everything about everything...just > because our science today puports to have absolute proof that something > must be so doesn't mean that, in fact, it is so. It is just the best > idea that we have at the time. I think it's a little more complex than that. Science is a highly interlocking edifice of interdependent ideas and their proofs. Each piece of the edifice depends on many others. As the number of dependent components increase, the "depended-on" component is established more solidly as truth. Down at the base of science are some axiomatic concepts which are required if science is to work, and which cannot be contradicted except by using them. These include the existence of an objective reality, and the existence of consciousness within an objective reality. These are axiomatic because you don't and can't prove them. That doesn't mean they rest on faith, it means that you need them to disprove them. In other words, if objective reality doesn't exist, then there's nothing to prove, because there's nothing there. In the core of science are concepts which have been proven by direct experiement or by dependent experiments so many times, that we know they must be as close to truth as human intellect has been able to approach. Even when a new concept comes along, it may subsume this basic concept, but it will not contradict it. For instance, Einsteinian gravitational theory, within the local frame of reference makes exactly the same predictions as Newtonian gravity. It is only in unusual regimes that it addresses reality in a fashion better than Newtonian gravity, and those areas had not even been experienced when Einstein developed his theories - and certainly had not been experienced by Newton. This is as true of biology as it is in physics, but biological systems are many, many orders of magnitude more complex that the systems in physics. Investigation of those systems is also more difficult. It probably would be fair to say that we have a less deep understanding of biology than of physics. But that does not mean we do not understand biology, nor does it mean that we do not understand enough about biology to be able to understand what is needed for living systems to come into existence, to evolve, and to develop a certain level of complexity. Chemistry is key to understanding the constraints on ET life, and systems of life which might be "not as we know it". The chemicals used in terrestrial life are known to be common throughout the cosmos. They have specific properties which make them good chemicals for creating and evolving life. Other chemicals are unlikely to be as directly useful. because their properties don't serve the requirements of life, or because they are uncommon. > Suppose, for example, that it turns out in the end that the conditions > we experience in this remote arm of an unremarkable galaxy where we live > are not the same conditions that exists in other parts of the universe. > Suppose that the speed of light isn't constant everywhere...if that > turns out to be true it would certainly answer the current question of > why we see stars that appear to be older than the universe itself. The likelier explanation is errors in the measurement system. At this point, there is no credible evidence in astronomy or physics that basic properties of the universe differ from one place to another. Theories of light speed variation, "tired light" local gravitational constant variations, etc, have all been proposed to account for various observations, but none have yet stood to the test. In any event, if life were dependent on such localized conditions, it would, of course, die when it left those localized conditions. > What are the properties of carbon compounds that are not shared by other > chemicals? Carbon compounds most easily form repeating sequences which are tolerant of heat / cold, radiation, etc. Repeating sequences are essential to life (i.e. DNA / RNA strands, cell wall polymers, cell membranes, etc). Carbon combines well with others of the most common chemicals of the universe (hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen) to create more complex compounds, and most of those reactions can occur at a wide variety of temperatures and pressures. > Are these unique properties true under all conditions? What happens to > chemistry when it evolves on a planet that is larger or smaller than > earth, has a completely different atmosphere than earth, and orbits a > binary or even a trinary star system in a matter of days or in hundreds > of years? These would not affect atomic properties. > Would carbon compounds be the only compounds with those > specific properties if they were on Jupiter? I don't think we have ever > even seen the metallic hydrogen that is supposed to exist at Jupiter's > core much less have any idea what happens to chemical compounds at the > pressure and immense gravity there. Well, there is _some_ knowledge of what happens in those conditions. The major problem is that such pressures tend to destroy ALL compounds - by breaking them into constituent elements. Thus, life, which is dependent on complexity, is unlikely to evolve under those conditions. > I think our science is prejudiced towards 'life as we know it'. > Granted; not much progress can take place if we don't have a well > anchored starting point and our science is about the best starting point > we can have. But...our scientific principals may not hold up under all > circumstances and we need to be aware of that and not be so attached to > them that we are unwilling to change. It's not a question of being unwilling to change. As I said in an earlier post, evidence of life thriving in a heretofore unexpected environment, or utilizing a heretofore unknown biochemistry would be a discovery of the first order and would cause scientists the world over to engage in projects to understand it. A good example are the forms of life found near black smokers, which are currently the object of intense research. > What is the currently accepted definition of life? I've read quite a > few books and there seems to be a lot of disagreement among the experts > as to what 'alive' really means. I think the basic characteristics of life are fairly well agreed on: a) Maintains its integrity b) Reproduces c) Utilizes products of the environment for growth and repair d) Excretes waste products It's only when you get into things at the edges, like viruses, that there are difficulties, but I have no problem with not considering viruses ex vitro to not be alive. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: 'Rods'? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:54:40 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:18:22 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> >Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Rods'? >Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 01:41:58 -0700 >First, tell me how you know how long they are. A single photo cannot >tell that without a shadow cast on an object of known size at a known >distance with a known sun elevation and azimuth, or without triangulation. >Second, think about what happens when a shutter is open if an >insect whips by crossing most of the angular extent of the film >in the time the shutter is open: it is both blurred and extended >in appearance. The wings will create a sine wave shape that is >semi-transparent as opposed to the more solid appearance of the >body. If the insect is close enough, it will be further blurred, >because the camera lens is focused beyond it. The sine wave of >the wing will have a period based on the time the shutter is open, >the frequency of wing motion, and any wing pitch changes used by >the insect for attitude correction. >Some simple calculations can be used to determine how close the insect >has to be in order to cover a specific area on the film. >For instance, an insect a little over a half inch long at a distance of a third >of an inch will cover 10 degrees of the field of view. Of course, the same >insect can be smaller, so long as it travels 10 degrees in the 60th of a >second the shutter is open, and its image will still cover 10 degrees of view. >Or, the insect can be the same size but more distant. >Thus - rods... Mark, Dead on! Apparent angular velocity at the film plane depends on many factors, and an insect close to the lens will appear to move much faster than an airplane at a great distance, something that seems to have been ignored in all of this. Let's get some photos of "rods" from the Arctic in the dead of winter! Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 16 Paper on Gulf Breeze From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:12:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:31:49 -0400 Subject: Paper on Gulf Breeze The information I have regarding Ed Walters and his hoaxed photos was presented to Bruce Maccabee and Don Ware in 1992 and most recently Walt Andrus and Dennis Stacy. It has been dismissed...ignored...because it is proof of the hoax and it is embarrassing. In fairness, when I presented this to Andrus eight months ago, I told him that I was giving him the opportunity to bring this forward himself, especially since he made the statement in the MUFON Journal that if any new evidence surfaced that they would be the first to print it. I also told him that if he ignored me I would make this info very public. So I am not doing anything behind anyone's back. This is a simple request. I have been censored. That means that YOU don't have what you need to make up your own minds using all the info available. You were given just so much and no more, just like the censorship of the regular media. I am asking that people with web sites, from any country, contact me personally and allow me to send you the paper and if you think what I have presented is reasonable, thought out and well presented, then put it on your site so it can be read by all. Yes, the case is ten years old, but truth is timeless. Thanks, BB
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: 'Rods'? From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:56:18 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:28:12 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Rods'? > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 01:41:58 -0700 > Some simple calculations can be used to determine how close the insect > has to be in order to cover a specific area on the film. > For instance, an insect a little over a half inch long at a distance of > a third of an inch will cover 10 degrees of the field of view. Of > course, the same insect can be smaller, so long as it travels 10 degrees > in the 60th of a second the shutter is open, and its image will still > cover 10 degrees of view. Or, the insect can be the same size but more > distant. The "rods" have interested me some, too. But in your above "for instance," Mark, your distance from the camera of 1/3 of an inch seems like a strange choice, since with a camera focussed near infinity I don't think you'd see any definite image of anything 1/3 inch away. Bob? As I estimate it, if for example you have a 35mm camera with a field of view of width 45 degrees, then a bug flying 50 mph across your view whose blurred image occupied 10 degrees during a 1/60 second shutter opening, would be some 6 or 7 feet away. (Barring gross arithmetical error.) My impression is that hornets, for example, have no problem traveling at such speeds even close to the ground. Besides triangulation using two cameras, another test to apply would be to see if "rods" are ever photographed on crisp cold days in winter as opposed to nice days in spring and summer when bugs are much more prevalent. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: MUFON Journal Muses From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:57:39 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:39:54 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON Journal Muses >From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] >Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 12:35:03 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MUFON Journal Muses >How many words would you like for the article proving Ed Walters >hoaxed his photos? I've seen this "proof", which isn't more than a bunch of personal opinions. Much less will it succeed in "proving" Walters hoaxed his photos or will it refute Maccabee's work. You're still stuck with your foolish argument that the attic was a good place to hide a prototype model he'd never use? What about your claim that the house plan is for a house that was built... but that this information is known only to a few people and will probably never come out. Gee, you'd think with all the people who're keen on disproving Walters, any such real evidence would have surfaced long ago. The bottom line is that if Barbara really had any proof we would have heard about it by now, in the course of 8 years. You might want to try and replace your rabidly opinionated "gut feelings" with a more proper foundation for your claims. __________________________________________________________________________ Science, Logic, and the UFO Debate: http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/index.html -----------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 16 ACC's Roswell Page Updated With Lots Of New From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:49:56 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:41:26 -0400 Subject: ACC's Roswell Page Updated With Lots Of New URL: http://www.American-Computer.com/roswell.htm EXPRESS YOUR OPINION ABOUT THE ROSWELL INCIDENT !! Welcome to AMERICAN COMPUTER COMPANY's WEBSITE. BACKGROUNDER & RECENT DEVELOPMENTS. (Updated to reflect additional research, on Sept. 15, 1997) [ Go fill out OPINION form NOW! ] [ Go to main AMERICAN COMPUTER Website... ] YOU ARE READING THE AMERICAN COMPUTER COMPANY STORY ABOUT THE ROSWELL INCIDENT ON JULY 7, 1947 and one person's story about the transfer of Alien Technology to Bell Laboratories. NOTE: It has been slightly updated to include a little bit of clarification and some presentation of information provided by EMAIL and TELEPHONE Contacts, most of its unconfirmed, to American Computer about this story. We are inclined to keep posting updates in the interest of full disclosure, even of unconfirmed reports. We welcome ALL viewpoints. RUMOR and CONVENTIONAL FOLK LORE have claimed that a UFO crash landed in Roswell, New Mexico, in September, 1947 near a Nuclear Research Center maintained by the US Air Force at its airbase in Roswell. Supposedly, authentic reports of the crash were suddenly covered up by the Air Force -- because the information unwisely released by base PR personnel, might constitute a threat to national security. Anecdotal reports have since claimed that Aliens, killed in the wreck, or afterward, were subsequently autopsied by the Surgeon General's office, and that the Surgeon General insisted that the autopsy be filmed. Supposedly: their bodies are now being stored by the US Army. [NOTE: in a recent series of unusual contacts with the Alien Presence Investigation community and the Public, allegations that these 'alien visitors' bodies resemble 'smallish grey or pink skinned beings with 6 fingers' have been alleged, stories that were supposedly circulating since 1948. According to one gentleman's EMAIL - entirely unconfirmed and entirely anecdotal - Military personnel at Wright Paterson Air Force Base in 1948, carried strange stories away from the base about "Dead Martians or something, on Ice" being transferred to Washington, DC by way of Wright Patterson, after the alleged crash, described in unconfirmed EMAILs sent to ACC since the story was first posted here. This unconfirmed report bears some resemblance to other stories which have surfaced in investigative journals. Again, we are describing these further reports to us, for your consideration against the context of our original story.] Much more recently, stories have begun surfacing about what the Army or Air Force supposedly did with the downed Alien Spacecraft in September and October of 1947. Nuclear Powered Engines and Advanced Communications and Computing devices, all of which were a hundred years beyond post-World War II technology, were taken from the Alien wreck and purportedly made their way to The Bell System's "Bell Laboratories", then located in Murray Hill, New Jersey -- it has been alleged. There, they were studied, dissected, microanalyzed and pieces tested. One piece was supposedly found to have unique potential, an Alien switching device composed of Silicon and Arsenic, arranged in a microscopic array much more complicated than even now have been assembled by Humankind, hundreds of years ahead. It purportedly became the priority focus object of Bell Labs' and The US Department of Defense's analysis and scientific research. It was discovered by the researchers, that the unusual electronic Alien device could act as both a high speed electronic switch and as an Amplifier. They decided to call it the "Transfer Resistor", because it could be made to resist or accept power flow at much higher or lower currents than were applied to it, depending upon unique application of electron flows. [According to one of our Scientific Sources, prior to 1947, there were no Transistors in use, only raw germanium and selenium diodes composed of naturally occurring elements -- mined from Bauxite and other mines. After September of 1947 and the alleged alien technology transfer to Bell Labs by the US Department of Defense, the entirely ARTIFICIALLY comprised Silicon 'Transistor' suddenly emerged at Bell Labs, arsenic doped in trace quantities into specially prepared Silicon produced remarkable changes in the 'conductive properties' of Silicon, when Boron and other gases and liquids were used to deposit it in the Silicon base. This produced the "Transistor" effects that had not been discovered by researchers working with rectifiers in over a hundred years.] [Our Scientific Commentator went on to tell us: The materials used require very advanced technology to manufacture that didn't exist in 1947, to produce them... were you to search the entire Deserts of Africa and Asia, you would not find a single piece of Silicon (sand) that would match this miracle of conductivity. Patents were awarded Bell Labs in the 1948 and 1949 era, indicating these 'alien' marvels to be 'earthshaking discoveries of scientist at Bell Labs' (Shockley, Bardeen and Brittain). Were they, in fact, then only recently discovered in debris from an Alien Craft allegedly wrecked in Roswell, New Mexico on July 7, 1947? Another crash site on another time and date?] Rumors have been flying in UFO-logy circles that, in 1948 and 1949, realizing that Aliens might not take lightly to this research, fearing attack not from the Soviet Union -- but from Aliens of unknown origin -- the U.S. Government hurriedly erected anti-aircraft batteries upgraded to Nike Anti-Missiles in the mid-to-late 50's in the surrounding Watchung Mountains of New Jersey... [and, the sake of completeness: a second site in Holmdel, New Jersey, both near Bell Lab's Murray Hills and Holmdel facilities] supposedly to protect it from space invasion!! It is not known if this is any indication that the Department of Defense accidently shot down the space craft and feared a reprisal. [Since originally publishing this account, we have received several letters from persons who grew up in the vacinity of the Bases' relating the following story: In the interest of public relations over missile bases in Union and Hunterdon County residents 'backyard', Bell Labs sponsored children in the 50s and 60s to take guided tours of the two missile bases on field trip from their grade and junior high schools, claiming the bases were 'to protect the residents of Central New Jersey from Russian Nuclear bombardment'.] Were they, in fact, just protecting Bell Labs from Space Invasion? [Some asked: Why not protect New York City, 60 miles distant, and place the launch pads where they could do so?] The Space Defense Anti-missile Batteries, along the Lookout Mountain Ridge north of Bell Labs, is now abandonded and partly overbuilt by a regional high school. On the "Lookout Mountain Nike Base" there were, supposedly, frequent "alien anti-invasion" readiness exercises and drills throughout the 50's, 60's and the early 70's, notably: their frequency reportedly increased any time UFO sightings were reported to the US Air Force -- particularly in the New Jersey flight corridors, or so it has been alleged !! According to one account: the Alien Silicon "amplifier / switch", evaluated in October and November of 1947, was discovered to have enormous implications. The Alien device was allegedly a hundred years beyond the then simple "junction diodes". [Our research has recently produced one possible explanation for why this may have been so significant: Rectifier Diodes commonly in use at the time by military electronics, were 'polarized' diodes that could only conduct power in 'one direction' - or 'unidirectional' - but they were not 'semiconducting' - which means 'variable in conductivity due to the effects of some other stimulus'. They were also composed of naturally occuring earth minerals, whereas Transistors were derived of a special and unique formula for doping refined Silicon with trace elements of Arsenic and other 'secret' materials, which THEN yielded the unusual 'semiconducting' properties of the Transistor -- our conclusion: the two devices are very, very different!] Yet it was reportedly determined at the time that simplified versions of the Alien devices could be manufactured by the effecting of several upgrades to existing technology. Then President Harry S. Truman ordered the devices "cloned" and a cover story manufactured. He was supposedly quoted as saying: "We can't keep so earthshaking a technological advance out of the hands of mankind. It just isn't right !" -- with classic Harry S. Truman sobriety. So, according to the story leaked by a reliable source to UFO-logy circles: in mid-December of 1947, to effect a plausible cover story, the DoD and Bell Labs purportedly manufactured a series of Press Releases, to whit: that after a "2 Year Long Extensive Research Effort" --discovery of the Transistor had "at last" been accomplished, supposedly by clever Bell Labs researchers (Drs. Shockley, Bardeen and Brattain, at Bell Lab's Electronic Circuits Research Center, under the aegis of maverick Bell Labs Vice President John "Jack" Morton, [NOTE: we have learned that Mr. Morton was murdered in the early 70's under highly bizarre circumstances]). Since that time, The Bell System, and Bell Labs, in the hands of successor company AT&T and its partly owned subsidiary, Lucent Technologies, have continued to maintain the "Transistor Story" for all of posterity, while quietly covering up the real tracks that led the Alien devices to Bell Labs. An Alien Technology proponent says that the device in the famous "transfer resistor test rig" at Bell Labs was, in fact, an actual piece of the original Alien integrated circuit array of transistor-like circuit pieces -- found in one of the Alien communication devices at the Crash Site in Roswell, N.M. [To further clarify this point: Supposedly, Bell Labs first announced it was composed of 'Germanium', like the old rectifier diode, so as to protect the Silicon formula from industrial espionage, until it could get its 1948 patents filed. Once filed and granted as "unique", "originally authored" and approved, the patents became the basis for Bell controlling the Transistor for about the first 15 years of its existence. Those who used it, had to pay some form of royalty to Bell. ] It has allegedly been reported that it took a year or more for Bell Labs to then figure out how to commercially produce the miracle devices. Reportedly, subsequent technology obtained over the course of the next 10 years by Bell Labs, from the pieces of the wreck delivered to them by the DoD, included the Laser, enhanced solid state circuit components, large scale switching control systems and high definition imaging devices... [ACC has learned through investigation that: Anti Trust suits filed against the Bell System by the Department of Justice in the 50's and the 70's, may have delayed the introduction of many of the refinements of the Transistor, and the Integrated Circuit's manufacture - forcing the Bell System to use outside companies to sell its research in commercial form. Perhaps this might suggest that the alleged alien artifacts had to be kept hidden for this reason as well? Perhaps, even now, after the breakup of the Bell System, there may continue to be unintroduced marvels. We don't know if the story is true, but if it is: In whose hands are they kept? ] Some devices from the downed Alien spacecraft, not fully understood to this day, allegedly include a high energy microwave amplifier that has the secondary effect of decomposing solid objects into their molecular components, a form of circuitry that runs on other than electronic power: using particles thought to have very short half-lifes in the natural universe ("muons"), and a huge induction generator-like coil system some 50 feet in diameter which appears to implement part of some aspect of the vehicle's ability to perform unique flying characteristics and aerobatics - some think it might be a "gravity nullifying" device. ACC has recently received numerous requests for information about whether the Transistor was evolved as a Military device during World War II. According to several documentary films we reviewed, devices used by the Military didn't reflect the existence of the Transistor until well into the 50's. Historians note that the all important 'Proximity Fuse' used in anti-aircraft weapons throughout World War II and up through the Koren War in the 50's, still used Miniature Vacuum Tube Circuitry developed by Sylvania Corporation and AT&T for use in Hearing Aids. Had the transistor existed during World War II, as AT&T implies in its public relations about the Transistor, would not AT&T have been the first to put it to use in the task of shooting down Japanese aircraft bombing US Naval Craft? Soviet technology of the time, in spite of its advanced state, still used Miniature Vacuum Tubes right up until the 70's... What prevented the Soviets from being able to perfect 'high yeilds' in efforts to duplicate the Transistor? Could it have been, simply, secrets possessed by Bell Labs and Western Electric from 1951, that, the Russians, without an Alien Craft or debris from Roswell of their own at the time, were simply UNABLE to figure it all out through sheer Soviet Research power? These are all very interesting questions! Rumors have been presented to us in EMAIL and by phone, since we first published this article, suggesting that the alleged alien devices taken from Roswell, kept under the control of Bell Labs and the operating group controlling the "Manhatten Project" (which produced the Nuclear Bomb, and maintained a facility near the alleged Roswell crash site) were used to form a strategic alliance to control the dissemination of technology like the Transistor 'from the private sector' and the auspices of the power of the Bell System - a company so large and so powerful, that the US Department of Justice and the Federal Courts broke Bell apart in 1981 'in the interest and the spirit of Free Competition'. Was that 'competitive technological edge' -- privileged access to Alien Technologies? Many members of the public have asked: Who keeps hunting down the 'leaks' about it all, and squashing them? A lot of allegations that the US Government is keeping it all a secret are being made to us. It has been suggested that AT&T and other companies are working TOGETHER to proliferate knowledge from the debris, for commercial purposes. Some have asked us: Have they organized a strategic marketing network that creates the cover stories needed to develop markets for the technology, as they commercialize it? Did they somehow get back in TOUCH with the Aliens? Doesn't the Public deserve the right to know what happened with the alleged Roswell Space Craft? After ACC's first publication of this article, several members of the Extraterrestrial Investigations community interested in Alien Space Visits, approached us and told us about a "Lieutenant Colonel Corso" who supposedly wrote a book about the artifacts being disseminated to Bell Labs. We haven't read it, but we have been told it pretty much appears to coincide with the above story, which was related to us by a Defense Communications Consultant who had access to the people at Bell Labs who he said were involved with the alleged "alien artifacts". It is remarkable that TWO INDEPENDENT SOURCES are saying pretty much the same thing about Bell Labs and the Transistor and the alleged Roswell, New Mexico crash of an Alien Spacecraft. Since the time that Col. Corso was identified to American, new information, unconfirmed, has surfaced and been presented to us. Two people whose fathers worked for Bell Labs, have identified to us, by unconfirmable email reports, that a parent employed by the Labs had taken them to see a "UFO" when they were very young of age, telling them that the "UFO" was being studied by the Labs and that they and the Air Force were going to try to learn to fly it "someday". The stories, of course, are at this time, unconfirmed and may be dramatizations or inaccurate. Others have written, insisting that the Transistor is really just the outgrowth of prior research into Germanium Diodes. Could this be true, or is it all just a 'smokescreen' intended to mislead the public? If true, is AT&T still trying to cover it all up? Or would it, in fact, not be beneficial to AT&T to reveal these secrets of 50 years ago, if they are true? What do you think?? Do YOU have any thing to add, such as an abduction experience, or a theory about Alien Visitations to our Planet? Did you work at Bell Labs during the 50's, 60's, 70's or in recent times, and notice anything unusual which might confirm or rebut these rumors? Add your comments below... and add your name to our Guest Mailing List. We will send you notification of new products as they are developed !! And stay tuned, we update our Website, FREQUENTLY !! 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UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: Wanted ASAP: PhD in Materials Sci. to Examine From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@yorku.ca> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:49:52 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:44:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Wanted ASAP: PhD in Materials Sci. to Examine > From: XianneKei@aol.com [Rebecca Schatte] > Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:52:58 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Wanted ASAP: PhD in Materials Sci. to Examine Possible ET Material > Forwarded Message: > From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) > To: iufo@world.std.com > Date: 97-09-11 18:58:52 EDT > Subject: Wanted ASAP: PhD in Materials Sci. to Examine Possible ET Material (snip) > My Dear Friends, > > As you may know, a lot of testing has gone on in regards to the alleged > Roswell piece of derbies. Test results are available from USCD, STANFORD, > via Charles Evans labs, a private lab in Texas and from a NASA scientist in > a double blinded study. The persons performing the particular tests dealing > with the isotopic ratios via icp/ms and SIMS equipment show a consistency > in isotopic ratios being extraterrestrial in origin. Further testing is > still ongoing. We are setting up a site on the WWW that will allow > skeptical scientists to do all further work on alleged ET related > materials. UFO related scientists will monitor the results and testing and > this will be to the benefit of all and keep difficulties from arising in > the future. One situation is facing us as we speak. It to this issue I ask > for your advise and support. We have several high quality mass spectrometers which can be used to measure isotope ratios for various elements. There are several technicians here at York University who are willing and able to do such tests. If anyone has any artifact or anything with very small traces of something which they would like an isotope ratio test done on, we can arrange to do it here. Nick Balaskas Search for other documents from or mentioning: nikolaos | xiannekei |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: UFO sighting with John Velez From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:04:29 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:47:40 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez Damn...I can't deliver on this promise, to provide a photo of whatever it was that John and I saw >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: "UFO Updates (E-mail)" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO sighting with John Velez >Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:56:48 -0400 >John took photographs of whatever it was, and gave me the film. >After I've developed it, I'll scan a shot, and upload it here. The film didn't come out. It was completely blank. Conspiracy theorists, start your engines - though I'd go for a prosaic explanation. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: 1909 Delaware/New Location for Airships From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:30:26 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:50:13 -0400 Subject: Re: 1909 Delaware/New Location for Airships Hi Jan and List, > Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:01:48 -0700 > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: 1909 Delaware/New Location for Airships > Carl Feindt continues to tear into the Delaware newspapers. > Probably no state in the US has been so thoroughly researched. > Here is an article which may lead to other "airship" stories in > a time and place not previously known for such reports. > -- > Jan Aldrich > Project 1947 > http://www.iufog.org/project1947/ > ===================================================================== > Wilminton, Delaware MORNING NEWS, 2 August 1909 > SEE AIRSHIPS AT NIGHT > People of Middletown Tell Tales of Ghostly Dirigible with > Lights > MIDDLETOWN, August 1.--A mysterious airship which flies > only at night is causing considerable excitement and keeping > the people of Orange county residing between Goshen and Newburg > up nights in their efforts to get a look at it. For the past > month persons who have been out late at night have reported > seeing an airship, but few believed the stories. This is either a hoax or a UFO. It certainly is not a creature of 1909 technology. First, There were no airships manufactured in the United States, or at least none recorded until about the first of the WW I. Two, it certainly wasn't a secret developement of the military. The United States Army wasn't even astute enough to take the Wright Flyer when the brothers offered it to them for developement, after they had flown it for some time. For that reason they turned it over to an European Museum (I think French) and it wasn't returned until the 70s or 80s. Third, there's that night time thing again. Flying at night had to be one of the most dangerous things you could do back then. It certainly wouldn't have been done for pleasure. > For a week or more the flying machine had not been seen, but > at 11 o'clock last night it made its appearance near Goshen. It > was flying high in the air and carried a light which attracted > attention. Again, why the light (which of course is one of the questions we still ask today) and how did they power it. > It flew very fast and was last seen traveling in the direction > of Newburg. Those who have seen the machine say it is shaped like > a balloon and has wings on each side and a cigar-shaped car > underneath. The sound of a motor was distinctly heard by those who > saw the machine. Well there you have it. Flying "very fast" and Aviation were not words that went together in 1909. It was not one of the characteristics of the aircraft of the day even if it wasn't an airship. Pilots in prop driven aircraft were lucky to get 70 miles per hour out of their machines. Locomotives passed them all the time. Hell some J-3 Piper Cubs flying today, still get passed regularly by highway traffic and they are alot more streamlined than the flivers of the day. I'm at a loss as to how these people could make out detatils of this thing at night and a motor? That really throws me. That alone would tend to make me believe a hoax was being perpetrated here. Regards, Don Ledger > =====================================================================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 16 Alfred's Odd Ode #181 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:15:10 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:54:12 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #181 Apology to MW #181 (For September 16, 1997) It would have been different had she spoke her own mind. But she _was_ just a shill for an _old_ party line. The line is a product of closed institution In a place where it's said one can find absolution. It is there that it's written the words of convenience. It is here, absolute, they expect an obedience. It is here that the scales are glued to your eyes. It is there they intrude, and from where they can pry. The irony is that it's history's horrible=85 Appalling, dreadful, dire -- incorrigible. They hold the root card of encompassing ignorance. They've LIED and _convinced_ you, YOU have no significance. She shilled for this bunch -- compromising apologist! For this she eschewed to continue as fantasist; For the harshest elite -- corrupted, and celibate That feeds off the blood of its flock so indelicate. And I don't pretend a quarrel how it uplifts with _your_ heart. You'll be hearing no complaint from me if it gives _your_ soul its start=85 I know it's what you need when it's cruel and dark -- unsettling. I need it too; I share your fear; I just won't oblige the meddling. It's a closed institution, and it holds all the aces. It can wound with a look and it looks in all places. It's causing the misery -- pontificates ignorance. For all of your faith, all you earn -- its indifference. It's a closed institution, and beyond your reproach. And still did she shill it, and profess like its coach. She wandered beatific in the suffering multitudes, So blind to culpability -- "Gods will" as an attitude. I find it almost obscenely ironic That decades of watching would make for histrionics; That anyone wandered so serenely in misery, And be blind to their culpable, harrowing history. Ask Sinead O'Connor what the Nuns have done for her. They're the reason lovely girls will shear off all their fur. And what have they done, but subjugate women To baby machines where sperm can go swimmin'? And I know that you think that I'm burnin' in hell. But I'm fair with my estimate, I study it well. Her philosophy's a reason that causes our fall, Too fuckin' many people, and more babies all! She's stands against all birth control -- A front for a church, her head in a bowl. It's not her at all that we're actually seeing! Figure her out, and church stands revealing. She hovered at the center of her universal garden. She legitimized the suffering; I truly beg your pardon. She could have spoken out about our bulk of population. But her interest was more Catholics, than beginning/ending station. My mechanics are challenged on the fabric of ignorance, And Catholic culpability in our continued indifference. And how a fine woman can front this effrontery, And maintain her honor unquestioned, non perfunctory. Galileo was, long ago, proved quite correct, But the Pope wouldn't cop out of selfish neglect! She then holds us well back with example of piety That's one in a trillion on thrones of a deity. This closed institution insists on high birth rates. This accomplished (with irony) in denial, while celibate! Every thought, every whisper is improvement in health! If you _just_ get your tubes cleaned! Biological wealth! It's weird, and extreme to go against nature, And the history's evidence is perverted in stature. Churches reluctance to cop to sex urges Has risen a rash of young boys in bad lurches! As good as she was, or might even have been, She championed a closed institution, my friend. A shop out of touch, out of reach -- coldly arbitrary. A shop that is backward -- bile bitter, and contrary. The watchers, dumbfounded, are awash in confusion. They see this convenience of holy collusion. They knew of sweet Jesus -- and what Church represents=85 They know of the efforts of Church against sense. Lehmberg@snowhill.com Anything that keeps you looking down in shame, when you should be looking up for answers, addresses the matter of whether, or not, this contribution is, more than remotely, on target! It was certainly in the second half of this century, perhaps as late as the early eighties that the Church finally absolved Galileo, and relieved Aristotle. The rest of the world had been operating on Galileo's premise since the beginning of the age of reason, but the Church remained consumed with pride. The grand old woman in question fronted, from whatever depth of humility, compassion, and saintly-ness, for an entity that submits ONLY to its own definition of control, is beyond oversight and explanation, and seems hell bent on bursting the seams of this world with multitudes of miserable people. These miserable throngs are a product of its philosophy of faithful ignorance, and its pedantic concentration on an afterlife that denies the imperatives of this life. Untested faith is valueless; unexamined existence is a tragic waste, and I am an atheist only as far as I can throw a god, fashioned by men (in their own image) to suit their own purposes -- To paraphrase Cominius, Socrates, and George Santayana. -- Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for standing tall against the same bunch. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" Personal HARASSMENT; however, the harassment index is infinite for each of us. Consider the whining heard regarding Christian persecution when the inverse is more largely true.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: Art Bell Show Satellite Hit With EMP? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:32:32 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:32:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Art Bell Show Satellite Hit With EMP? From: http://www.sightings.com/ufo/artbellpulse.htm Art Bell Show Satellite Hit With EMP? David Kressman, Director, STA GE-1 HIT WITH APPARENT E.M.P. DURING "AREA-51" CONFESSION Art Bell hosts "Coast-to-Coast AM," a nightly talk show from Pahrump, Nevada, a small town near "Area 51" (an airbase which the U.S. government officially denies the existence of, despite the massive size of the complex. UFO's are frequently seen near this site.) Art's radio program is relayed from the studio in Pahrump to the network headquarters by satellite GE-1. At about 1AM EST, Friday, September 12, 1997, he designated one phone line for Area 51 employees to call in and "spill the beans." Several interesting and convincing callers took the bait. Then came one bizarre call from an obviously distraught and terrified man who claimed to be a former Area 51 employee recently discharged for "medical" reasons. He cited malevolent extraterrestrials at Area 51 and an impending disaster that the government knew would take out "major population centers." Midway through this call (according to GE engineers) the satellite's "Earth sensor lost lock" and the craft rolled into an attitude where it no longer pointed at the uplinks, causing 50 channels to go off-air for about 30 minutes. Shortly after the outage began, the live internet video feed from Art's studio was lost as well. Unaware of these events, Bell continued talking to the caller for another minute during the outage until he heard a scream and the phone went dead. A reporter from Penthouse visiting the studio to gather information for a story about the program witnessed the event and furiously took notes. Minutes later, Bell received a call from his network on a conventional analog "hotline" saying that he was "off the air." He checked the uplink transmitter and saw that it had suffered complete loss of communication with GE-1. At this point they resumed transmission on a 56k digital phone line and went back on the air. Then the analog "hotline" to the network cut out and Art was unable to speak to network engineers. One of the first callers after the outage was someone who claimed to be from Area-51 "security." He said that his job was to "close gaps," the network had been "pulsed" and that we "would not hear from the caller again." (An ElectroMagnetic Pulse is a method of overloading electronic equipment in a target area; EMP generators were funded under the original SDI research. The phenomenon was discovered by accident during the 1960's when the phone network in Hawaii was disabled by a nuclear test 800 miles distant.) Speculation about an EMP continued as this was "verified" by several callers: A man from Kingston (also near area 51) said he was on hold waiting to go on the air, and both his home telephone lines went dead. Another caller, an RF engineer employed at Hughes AeroSpace in Tucson (and an expert on EMP shielding), stated that he had suffered "cloud bounce" from the pulse and his personal computer and digital watch were wiped clean. A third caller reminded the audience that author Nick Begich stated in his book "Angels don't Play this HAARP" that a military antenna array in Alaska has the capability to remove individual satellites from service and generate such pulses. (Incidentally, the HAARP design bears a great similarity to the work of Nikola Tesla, who publicly made claims about the potential of his inventions to generate EMP anywhere on the planet.) Finally, another caller reminded the audience of an event several months prior where it was confirmed that a number of employees at the Cheyenne Mountain nuclear-hardened underground base convinced as many friends and family as they could to move immediately to a remote location in South America. Art closed the show by speculating on whether (in the mind of the government) the "enemy" of National Security had now become the American people. =A91997, STA intelligence advisor All rights reserved. Forwarding is authorized. Reprint on web site or journal with permission please
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: Do you believe? From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 97 18:23:33 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:46:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Do you believe? Hello All! :) I've started a simple poll. http://www.crossfields.com/SAUCERS/vote It ask's; Do you believe UFO's are from worlds other than Earth? (This is an instant block voting program, not a web page!) Possible selections are; Yes, No, Maybe You may also feel free to place the URL on your page and/or pass it around. ~Pat~ http://www.crossfields.com/~pparri
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: 'Rods'? From: Michael Curta <UFOMedic@net1comm.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:39:37 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:54:51 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? >Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 07:30:23 -0400 >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Rods'? >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Michael Curta <UFOMedic@net1comm.com> >>To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net>, >>Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Rods'? >>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 15:10:03 -0600 >>I think you need to look again! If you go to the web site you can clearly >>see the difference between BUGS and RODS. Where have you ever seen a bug >>several feet long or longer? >Michael, >I'm very willing to look again. I didn't claim in my short post that I had >looked at all images of "rods", just that the ones I had looked at looked >insects to me. >Since images are up on a number of web sites, tell me which specific one >you think has convincing images and I'll take a look. >I've got no vested interest one way or another in this.> >Bob Hi Bob, At www.roswellrods.com there are several side by side photos of bugs and rods. I think the Mexico cave footage is some of the best. I will tell you that I have met with the chief Zoologist and Chief Paleontologist at the Denver History Museum who were both "floored" by the evidence we presented and requested that they be allowed to be involved in the research. They followed the meeting up by contacting several other researchers in the field including an entomologist who were also stunned by the data. Michael
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: 'Rods'? From: Michael Curta <UFOMedic@net1comm.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:25:51 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:52:40 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? >Date: Mon, 01 Jan 96 20:10:21 >From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Rods'? >>From: Michael Curta <UFOMedic@net1comm.com> >>To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net>, >>Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Rods'? >>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 15:10:03 -0600 >>I think you need to look again! If you go to the web site you can clearly >>see the difference between BUGS and RODS. Where have you ever seen a bug >>several feet long or longer? >I really think that this whole flap about "Rods" is a hoax... >perpetrated intentionally for financial reasons by the >photographer, who claimed (on a Compuserve forum) to try to >help pay off his camera equipment... >Roger I have to disagree with you. There are countless people filming rods in 23 states now plus Mexico. In addition they have been caught on motion picture film and digital production equipment. I also must correct you on your recollection on the Conference held on MUFON on CompuServe. It was never stated it was to help "pay off his camera equipment" as you state. He stated he was trying to raise money to buy better equipment so he could better research the phenomena and try to find out what it is. Trust me I was there, I helped host the conference, in a forum that I helped to start and run for several years. I have look at hours and hours of this stuff and I don't know what it is, but I do know this much. It's NOT bugs, It's NOT artifact from the batteries and it's certainly NOT a hoax. Offer some proof to your claims of a hoax. Simply that you "think" it's a hoax is no proof. Do the research yourself and prove it's a hoax if you think it is. I think Stan that said it best. "Don't bother me with the facts, my mind is made up." If you can't attack the data, attack the researcher. Michael
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: 'Rods'? From: Michael Curta <UFOMedic@net1comm.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:52:04 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:58:00 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> >Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Rods'? >Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 01:41:58 -0700 >> From: Michael Curta <UFOMedic@net1comm.com> >> To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net>, >> Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Rods'? >> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 15:10:03 -0600 >> >Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 10:24:14 -0400 >> >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Rods'? >> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> >>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> >> >>Subject: re: UFO UpDate: 'Rods'? >> >>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 13:20:23 -0700 >> >Mark, >> >I think you are right. The stills and videos I've seen so >> >far of these "rods" lead me to believe that we should be >> >calling them bugs instead of rods. >> >Bob >> Hi Bob, >> I think you need to look again! If you go to the web site you can clearly >> see the difference between BUGS and RODS. Where have you ever seen a bug >> several feet long or longer? >> Michael >Michael - >First, tell me how you know how long they are. A single photo cannot >tell that without a shadow cast on an object of known size at a known >distance with a known sun elevation and azimuth, or without triangulation. >Second, think about what happens when a shutter is open if an >insect whips by crossing most of the angular extent of the film >in the time the shutter is open: it is both blurred and extended >in appearance. The wings will create a sine wave shape that is >semi-transparent as opposed to the more solid appearance of the >body. If the insect is close enough, it will be further blurred, >because the camera lens is focused beyond it. The sine wave of >the wing will have a period based on the time the shutter is open, >the frequency of wing motion, and any wing pitch changes used by >the insect for attitude correction. >Some simple calculations can be used to determine how close the insect >has to be in order to cover a specific area on the film. >For instance, an insect a little over a half inch long at a distance of a >third >of an inch will cover 10 degrees of the field of view. Of course, the same >insect can be smaller, so long as it travels 10 degrees in the 60th of a >second the shutter is open, and its image will still cover 10 degrees of >view. >Or, the insect can be the same size but more distant.> >Thus - rods... Hi Mark, Take a look at the Mexico cave footage on the web site. That thing is as big as the man and there is no sign wave. It was shot with digital equipment from a studio. In addition see my latest post to Bob Shell for more info. Michael Search for other documents from or mentioning: ufomedic | mcashman |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: UFO sighting with John Velez From: John Koopmans <john.koopmans@sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:16:54 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:48:53 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez > Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:15:40 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFO sighting with John Velez > >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> > >To: "UFO Updates (E-mail)" <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: UFO sighting with John Velez > >Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:56:48 -0400 > Hi Errol, Greg, All, > Greg writes, > >I'm sure most of us have read John Velez, when he writes about his > >sightings over his home in Queens, NY. [SNIP] > >Let me jump ahead here, and point out something that helps explain why > >>John might see things while other people don't. He's VERY good at > >watching >the sky. [SNIP] > I want these things seen and analyzed by as many people as possible. I > think it's important. In fact, I think it's urgent. > John Velez Hi John: I was quite surprised and very disappointed to hear that no one responded to your e-mail postings about the sightings. For chr_sake, isn't that what UFO research is supposed to be all about? Is it because it's so straight-forward without mysterious circumstances? Finally a _reeal_ sighting by a regular contributor, and - Dead Silence! It seems like many of the researchers enjoy the more elusive, non-verifiable, controversial cases, than to be confronted by the simple, stark, naked reality. Will they never realize that we've got a serious situation here, and not just a pleasant social gathering of story-tellers? I suppose that they'll always continue walking around, touching things with a ten-foot pole, and seeing things through rose-coloured glasses. Hope I didn't get too carried away here, I was feeling angry. Anyway, I never doubted your sightings, and I'm sure a lot of other people on Errol's List feel the same way. I can honestly say that I appreciate all your postings. Your honesty, empathy and sincerity ring through all your words. I also greatly admire your courage to fight for abductees in the midst of a sea of the close-minded variety of scientific sharks. We should follow your example. Some of us "lurkers" are starting to feel too intimidated to say anything of value on the List. Just try and make a few helpful suggestions or creative new approaches, and you get attacked as though from a pack of rabid dogs. Healthy, considerate debate is fine, but raged attack is destructive. It no longer seems that we're all working together as Homo Sapiens to try and understand the common imposition by the aliens. It seems like too many of the more dominating personalities on the List are more interested in bestowing their overgrown egos on others, and spreading their displaced beliefs that there small, narrow, scientifically defined world-view is all there is. How could they ever fit an unknown round object in their square world? I wonder who the real aliens are? Damn - I thought I had got rid of my anger, but here I go, straying off the subject again. Sorry! The reason I wrote this e-mail, is not to give you an evaluation of the images in your photos (unfortunately, I don't have the skills or equipment to do that), but to request a few minutes of your time to help me learn how to _see_ the objects that you say are everywhere. I have tried on numerous occasions, but without luck. I am starting to think that what you have is a very talented skill in the art of seeing (not so different from the skill that an artist or photographer might possess). Although the skies in this area (near Toronto, Ontario) are often overcast because of the Great Lakes influence, there are opportunities to see clear skies, especially during the colder winter months. I agree with you that more people should learn how to see these objects, and any help will be more than appreciated. I will help pass the technique to others following my first success. The more that become aware of the reality of the situation, the sooner we can begin to come together to determine the magnitude of the _present_ situation, rather than waste endless hours in debate of events too far removed in time and historical accuracy to be verifiable. Keep up the courage - there are more behind your position than you may realize. Thank you also for starting up a separate List for abductees. Is it coincidence? The evening before your announcement on Errol's List, I was wishing that someone would start a new List such as yours. There is nothing wrong with Errol's List (in fact his List deserves a "Best Site"), but it is being dominated by egoists, and inhibits many, particularly abductees, from participating without fear of more abuse. (By the way, I am not an abductee. For some unknown reason, I have gravitated into the lives of many abductees, and, as best as I can, share their pain. I have always tried to understand and defend them to the best of my ability. There is nothing that can justify the continual abuse abductees experience, not only from the aliens, but from the more alien Humans that exploit them for their own selfish purposes. I feel that what is happening to abductees is as important, or even more so, than physical sightings of UFOs. I disagree with those that feel the two events should be segregated). Hope I haven't digressed too much in this e-mail. Thanks again, John Koopmans P.S. Perhaps it would also be beneficial to post you "seeing" techniques on Errol's List, so that others can try and add to the verification. Search for other documents from or mentioning: john.koopmans | jvif |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: UFO sighting with John Velez From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:55:35 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 04:12:23 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: UFO sighting with John Velez >Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:04:29 -0400 > >Damn...I can't deliver on this promise, to provide a photo of >whatever it was that John and I saw > >>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >>To: "UFO Updates (E-mail)" <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: UFO sighting with John Velez >>Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:56:48 -0400 > >>John took photographs of whatever it was, and gave me the film. >>After I've developed it, I'll scan a shot, and upload it here. > >The film didn't come out. It was completely blank. Conspiracy >theorists, start your engines - though I'd go for a prosaic >explanation. > >Greg Sandow > Hi Errol, Greg, Doesn't matter Greg, no ones paying attention anyway! Apparently we're only talking to each other for all the response that the sighting report has triggered. I'd rather do _that_ over the phone than on the open list. <G> I'm just as sorry as you are,(if not sorrier) that the film didn't develop properly. I knew you wanted the pix because it was your first sighting. Maybe the damn 'thing' didn't want its picture taken! I'll take some more 'control' pictures with fresh film to see if there's anything mechanically wrong with my old Pentax. I don't think so however. That camera works great. This is the first time this has happened. The counter on the camera was registering each photograph. It won't do that unless the film is winding inside with each advance. It's an SLR so I know the lens cap was off or I wouldn't have been able to see anything thru the viewfinder. I watched the shutter open and close as I made each exposure, nothing felt or acted unusual during the shoot. Strange. I'll notify you privately (as no-one here cares much one way or the other.) I guess a sighting or a case has to have mold on it before any "researcher" will deem it 'worthy to investigate.' You gotta remember that if they investigate anything current they run the risk of actually finding some evidence. Or worse yet, seeing something themselves that they'll have to try to explain. Not so easy when the shoe is on the other foot. Maybe they all just think that we're full of shit or crazy, and remember, you don't want to mess with crazy people. My folks always told me to 'humor' crazy folks, maybe that's what they're doing with us, letting us rant on until we're all ranted out so that they can get back to debating UFO sightings from the paleolithic era. They cannot take the time to examine current sighting reports because they are very heatedly engaged discussing and debating cases from before WWII, you remember, 50 years ago,...the BIG ONE, and all kinds of other shit that happened when Fred Flintstone still held an active quarrymens union card.(HEE-HAW) We'll probably get a call and some questions (in the year 2015 or thereabouts) from some young UFO buff with an interest in 'obscure' UFO sighting reports that happened over densly populated urban centers. Here's to long life Greg! Lochiam my friend. <G> John (pissing in the wind) Velez John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: Trudeau Memoirs Could Aid Corso Research From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 03:25:42 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 04:13:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Trudeau Memoirs Could Aid Corso Research Forwarded from the "Ufomind Mailing List": http://www.ufomind.com/misc/1997/sep/d16-002.shtml 16. September 1997 19.01.12 Message From: campbell@ufomind.com,Internet Subject: UFOMIND: Trudeau memoirs could aid Corso research To: Stig Agermose ufomind@lists.best.com,Internet From: SethWeine@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:48:04 -0400 (EDT) To: webmaster@ufomind.com Subject: Re: Welcome to The Day After Roswell Database Hello Glenn! I recently sent the following comment to the fellow who's conducting the "The Day After Roswell Database" If you find it of interest, you are welcome to post it with the other articles/essays on the Corso page. 'All the best! Seth Joseph Weine ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ Subj: Re: Checking out Corso Date: 09/14/97 To: rduffy@pulaski.k12.ky.us Greetings! Your idea to follow up on the claims of the author is great! I offer the following line of investigation: Corso mentions, near the beginning of the book, receiving a copy of his boss's (General Trudeau) privately printed memoirs. Generally, such privately printed books have a print run of at least one hundred copies. Even if such a book never appeared on the commercial market, not every copy stays in private hands forever. People die and their relatives sell the accumulated books to used book dealers. Sometimes the books are willed to libraries (school, public, or research institutions.) Sometimes people tire, or lose interest in some of their books and just want to purge their libraries of unwanted volumes. Also, it's possible that the General, (like anyone who's vain enough to pay for publishing their own memoirs) gave copies to selected institutional libraries: The Pentagon Library, The Library of Congress, the libraries of all the schools (preparatory, college, military) he went to, the base libraries of all the installations he served at (one could check his service record). Some--or many-- of those institutions may make their collections available to outside scholars. Also, if the book was sold to the book trade, it could be sitting on some store's bookshelf right now. There are national search services for out-of-print books. For a few dollars (of even for free) these search services will search the nation for any book you seek. If they find it, you are not obligated to buy it, unless you like the price it's offered at. Such services are always listed in the Sunday book review supplements of major newspapers (i.e. the NY Times, The New York Review of Books.) Now I don't think, if we got ahold of Trudeau's book, that there'd be a sentence that reads: "I gave my trusty assistant Corso the job of integrating Alien technology into our defence industries". Of course not. But.... UFO researchers are used to looking for hints and slivers of evidence. Perhaps there's something in the book that--however obliquely--can be used to make a case, either way, on Corso's story. I suggest that a search be made for General Trudeau's memoirs, and that they be sifted for any useful evidence. Respectfully yours, Seth Joseph Weine sethweine@aol.com ---------- Index: Philip Corso Search for other documents from or mentioning: stig_agermose | campbell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: 'Rods'? From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:51:08 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 04:15:04 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 03:11:58 -0700 > Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:02:53 -0400 > Subject: Re: 'Rods'? > > From: rjke@webtv.net (Jose and Karen Escamilla) > > Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:53:34 -0600 > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Re: Bob Shell - bug theory > > I don't know how plain and simple it is to show someone like Bob that > > these are not insects!!! > Lucky Bob, getting all the heat while I escape unscathed, even though > I beat him to the opinion first (sorry, Bob). > In any case, it IS plain and simple. Provide a reliable triangulation. > If the rod does show at the same time in two cameras spaced some > distance apart (tens to hundreds of feet), SMPTE time-coded for synch, > the azimuth and elevation of the cameras can be used to determine > distance and size. > Without those measurements, nothing is proven. Normally with something like this my skeptics hat goes on right away but in the case of this particular issue I'm dubious only because I watched Jose's entire video last November at Expo West. I don't claim to know exactly what it shows, but it didn't look like insects to me. The best estimation I could make is that the objects appeared to be 10' or longer if we estimate the trajectory of the objects filmed was in proximity of the telephone pole in some of his sample shots. There were several video segments some of which showed the objects flight path in front of where others showed the objects behind the telephone poles and wires. The shots where the objects were eclipsed by the pole or wire seems to refute the bug theory providing we consider the distance from the camera. The movements of the objects also seemed charaterictally "non-buglike", very elegant hairpin turns and smooth motion almost like fish. I'm not sure Jose is right in all his estimations about what this is that he's caught on camera but I would strongly suggest that those that have not seen this video refrain from attacking the research. Still shots simply do not provide enough data to be able to tell one way or another. The video was enough to convince me that "Rods" deserve further study. Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 17 'Huge Cache' of Secret UFO Documents? From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:46:31 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 04:21:32 -0400 Subject: 'Huge Cache' of Secret UFO Documents? From: Michael Ravnitzky <mikerav@ix.netcom.com> Investigative Reporting into UFOs and the Military: A New Research Tool by Michael Ravnitzky, mikerav@ix.netcom.com In 1996, the United States Air Force received thousands of FOIA Requests. Between 20% and 25% of these requests concerned UFOs and other exotic or paranormal technologies. In 1996, the Air Force and the CIA described the use of UFO reports as cover for advanced aircraft and satellite projects. In 1996 and 1997, the Air Force released previously unclassified documents on balloon projects, such as Mogul, which were interpreted by the public as UFOs. For the past ten years, I've been interested in the technological history of UFOs, and the sociological structure of the military-civilian relationship regarding UFOs. *What are UFOs* is a legitimate reporting subject that is also of great interest to the public. The problem with much of the crap that is published on this fascinating subject is that it is unsubstantiated. For years, the Air Force simply ignored requests for information and merely referred requesters to the National Archives. Last year, I identified the location of a huge cache of secret documents on UFO's and related subjects, most of which haven't seen the light of day in thirty or forty years. But I need to give you a little background first. The Defense Department has stored away literally thousands of tons of records around the country. One location is the military archives at St. Louis and another is the military archives at Suitland, Maryland. Each box of records at those archives has an associated SF-135 form, Standard Form 135, which describes and inventories the contents of that particular box. The focal point for UFOs in the Department of Defense was for many years an Air Force Intelligence Component located at Wright Patterson Air Force Base. The original name for the office was the Foreign Technology Division-FTD, later it was called FASTC-Foreign Aerospace Technology Center, and now it is called National Air Intelligence Center - NAIC. The primary mission of this office has been to acquire and to analyze foreign aerospace technology. Their mission has been relatively continuous since before World War II, while Wright Field, originally named McCook Field, was still an Army Air Force Base. So they've been doing what they've been doing for a long time. They have a database with ten million records called CIRC, which dates back to the late 1960's. But even this is just foreign records. So what happened to the domestic and earlier foreign records from the 1940's to the 1970's, including the UFO materials? Well, over the years, this Air Force office sent approximately 3000 boxes of records to the military storage archives. How do I know this? According to Gery D. Heulsemen, TSgt, USAF, who runs the FOIA program at NAIC, his office has recently obtained 2959 pages of SF-135 forms which describe in detail the contents of these boxes, many still classified, shipped over to archives over the past fifty years. The SF-135s cover the time period, 1953 through 1982, approximately. According to Heulseman, no one has ever requested a set of these forms. He adds that the forms have not been entered or scanned into an electronic database, nor is it likely that they will be. However, he feels that these forms could help locate records responsive to the types of requests that they receive through the Air Force. In most cases, however, his office simply does not have the time to peruse these pages in order to try to locate responsive records. However, with these forms in hand, an investigative reporter could very well put his or her finger on documents which might illustrate the real story behind some of these strange phenomena. At a cost of 15 cents per page, the 2,959 pages [less the first 100 free pages] would cost $428.85. An enterprising reporter with a reputable organization might just be able to swing a fee waiver if he or she described how these records would illustrate the workings of government, and would have a good likelihood of publication to the general public. The address to obtain a set of these forms is: National Air Intelligence Center [NAIC/SCVMS/FOIA] Attn: Gery D. Huelseman, TSgt, USAF Chief, Freedom of Information Act Office Information Management Operations 4180 Watson Way Wright Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio 45433-5648 I hope that some news organization or researcher can use these records to finally tell the real story of what happened when the military ran into the unexplainable. _________________________________________________________________________ To respond and/or give feedback to an author, reply to his or her E Mail address. If you want us to consider your reply for public posting, you can send a Carbon Copy to us. We reserve the right to edit and post. UFOR articles are archived in http://www.Reference.COM. For any change in your UFOR participation, please, e mail me at d005734c@dc.seflin.org The most ample distribution of articles published in UFOR is highly encouraged as long as proper attribution and respect for the authors and participating lists expressed wishes, if any, are mantained, this include printed and electronic media, including for profit and non profit organizations. _________________________________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: R&D Trudeau Files Declassified At The National From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 06:57:46 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 04:22:59 -0400 Subject: Re: R&D Trudeau Files Declassified At The National As many of the subscribers will know Colonel Philip Corso claims having channeled alien technology to leading American companies such as Bell Labs, IBM, Hughes Aircraft and Dow Corning, while working under Lieutenant General Arthur Trudeau in the Army's R&D (Research And Development) division between 1961-1963. I don't know how much a check will bring, but these recently declassified R&D Trudeau files at the National Archives should be published to a wider audience and scrutinized for clues. The following entries were found at: http://gopher.nara.gov:70/0/inform/decl_eo.txt *** last update 05/20/97 (MFR, MJS) *** RECORDS DECLASSIFIED BY THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES UNDER E.O. 12958 Executive Order 12958 (signed April 17, 1995) directed the Archivist of the United States to conduct a vigorous systematic declassification program for classified records accessioned into the National Archives. The following series maintained in the Washington, DC, area have been reviewed and declassified under that program. Although declassified, access to some portions of some entries may be limited for reasons other than national security. In addition, some entries may be temporarily closed as records are moved from other facilities to the new National Archives building in College Park, Maryland. For access information, contact the Archives II Reference Branch at 301-713-7250. RG MLR No. Series Description Box Nos. --- ------- -------------------------------------- (snip) 319 160 Chief of Research & Development, 1-4 Correspondence of Lt. General Arthur Trudeau, 1958-62 319 162 Chief of Research & Development, 1 Organizational Planning Files of the Administration Office, 1961-62 319 163 Chief of Research and Development, 1 White House Fact Sheets of the Technical and Industrial Liaison Office, 1961-62 319 164 Chief of Research and Development, 1 Reports of the Technical and Industrial Liaison Office, 1962 (snip)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: 'Whirlwind' in Georgia From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:57:41 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 04:24:07 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Whirlwind' in Georgia > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/16/97 6:01 PM: > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:42:48 -0700 > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: "Whirlwind" in Georgia > ...A whirlwind occurred > in a twelve acre cornfield that was about four feet in diameter > and sometimes a hundred feet high. The body of it was perfectly > black, with fire in the centre and emitted a stong sulphurous > vapor that could be smelt three hundred yards form it. Sounds like a wild combination of the Vins object and the Hobbs, NM injury case... ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: UFO sighting with John Velez From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 02:01:22 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 04:26:27 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez >Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:16:54 -0700 >From: John Koopmans <john.koopmans@sympatico.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez >> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:15:40 -0500 >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFO sighting with John Velez >> >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >> >To: "UFO Updates (E-mail)" <updates@globalserve.net> >> >Subject: UFO sighting with John Velez >> >Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:56:48 -0400 >> Hi Errol, Greg, All, >> Greg writes, >> >I'm sure most of us have read John Velez, when he writes about his >> >sightings over his home in Queens, NY. >[SNIP] >> >Let me jump ahead here, and point out something that helps explain why >> >>John might see things while other people don't. He's VERY good at >> >watching >the sky. >[SNIP] >> I want these things seen and analyzed by as many people as possible. I >> think it's important. In fact, I think it's urgent. >> John Velez =========================== Hi Errol, John, All, John Koopmans writes, >Hi John: >I was quite surprised and very disappointed to hear that no one >responded to your e-mail postings about the sightings. For chr_sake, >isn't that what UFO research is supposed to be all about? I recieved three (private) e-mails from list members that were all very supportive and encouraging. Thank you all. And thank you too John for your kind and supportive remarks, they _are_ appreciated. I feel very alone with my views and experiences sometimes, it really isn't "easy" for me to maintain this level of public involvement. If it wasn't for the urgency and magnitude of this situation I'd just as soon keep my mouth shut, remain completely anonymous and let every man sink or swim for him or herself. My freaking conscience won't let me do it. Believe me, I've been over this in my head a thousand times. Something MAJOR is unfolding as we speak, I have no choice but to report what is happening and damn the torpedoes. I have had too many encounters with these beings (and their starcars) to have any doubt left as to their 'reality.' I'm not doing this for me, I'm fine. If they land in my backyard tomorrow I'm not going to freak out and have my world shattered, or take a flying leap out of a skyscraper. Sadly a great many are going to end up as casualties because they refuse to make room for the 'possibility' that any of this is real. It's much easier to dismiss and push back into subconscious realms that which makes one feel uncomfortable or uneasy. Well, sometimes those 'bad' feelings can be your best friend because they force you to look and to question, they _can_ point the way toward truth. Just as we (abductees) have had to learn to conquer our fear, so must everyone else. There is frankly very little choice (or time left to do it) in this case. these beings and their craft will gradually make their presence here more and more obvious to all. It is my very humble oppinion that they will not "land" until we (all of us) are open to the contact and openly inviting them to do so (en masse.) We're years and and still quite a ways from that, but the sands drain from that glass rapidly. >We should follow your example. Some of us "lurkers" are starting to feel >too intimidated to say anything of value on the List. Just try and make >a few helpful suggestions or creative new approaches, and you get >attacked as though from a pack of rabid dogs. Healthy, considerate >debate is fine, but raged attack is destructive. Screw em if they can't take a joke I always say! <G> Hey man, if anyone out there feels that they have something of value to contribute by all means share it. Errol is the very best "bullshit" editor on the planet, you can trust him to post anything that will be of value to the members of the list. You can also trust him to delete any nonsense or crapola before it reaches your hard drive. I don't know if everyone realizes how hard he works on this and how many hours Errol puts into this thing. AND FOR FREE! >P.S. Perhaps it would also be beneficial to post you "seeing" techniques >on Errol's List, so that others can try and add to the verification. I will write up a little "spotters guide" as per your request John. When it's ready I'll post it to this list. FYI-Working furiously on AIC. The damn thing is coming together nicely. John Velez John Velez jvif@spacelab.net Search for other documents from or mentioning: jvif | john.koopmans |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: Re: 'Rods'? From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 02:01:54 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 04:28:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Re: 'Rods'? > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:54:40 -0400 > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Rods'? > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Let's get some photos of "rods" from the Arctic in the dead of winter! Thanks, Bob. You know it was worrying me all afternoon. I was thinking - now where could you set up an experiment where there'd be no insects and yet potentially have room for multi-hundred-foot-hundreds-of-m/sec-travelling vehicles....? I didn't want to be unfair and set up an impossible test condition. But, of course, the Arctic is perfect. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: 'Rods'? From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 02:28:57 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 04:29:11 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/16/97 7:28 PM: > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:56:18 -0700 (PDT) > From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Rods'? > The "rods" have interested me some, too. But in your above "for > instance," Mark, your distance from the camera of 1/3 of an inch seems > like a strange choice, since with a camera focussed near infinity I don't > think you'd see any definite image of anything 1/3 inch away. Bob? Sorry about that, Jim. It was late and I was using an angular size to distance spreadsheet by trial and error to do a distance to angular size computation. I just used the first reasonable value I grabbed. But I think I was using the most drastic 1/10000 "shutter" speed in the example, which requires the object to be much closer and much faster. (That was a claim on the website) I'll be forwarding a post later on the subject which indicates that this 1/10000 "shutter" speed isn't as accurate as it might seem. > As I estimate it, if for example you have a 35mm camera with a field of > view of width 45 degrees, then a bug flying 50 mph across your view whose > blurred image occupied 10 degrees during a 1/60 second shutter opening, > would be some 6 or 7 feet away. (Barring gross arithmetical error.) My > impression is that hornets, for example, have no problem traveling at such > speeds even close to the ground. Speeds seem to be a bit slower. 9 km / hr for honeybees. Of course, that's ground, not airspeed. 15-20 km / hr for some others. Locusts can jump at velocities of 340 cm / sec which is .34 m / sec or .034 km / sec or 122 km / hr, which is roughly 50 mph (I hate conversions) Convection winds carry insects up to 8 m / sec or 288 km / hr (about 100 mph). > Besides triangulation using two cameras, another test to apply would be to > see if "rods" are ever photographed on crisp cold days in winter as > opposed to nice days in spring and summer when bugs are much more > prevalent. Why is it I didn't think of this all day sitting in the backyard watching the darn bugs flying by? :-) However, note that one Arctic insect (Aedes punctor) can fly at -2.5C. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: 'Rods'? From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 02:51:20 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 04:30:28 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/16/97 8:58 PM: > From: Michael Curta <UFOMedic@net1comm.com> > To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Rods'? > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:52:04 -0600 > Hi Mark, > Take a look at the Mexico cave footage on the web site. That thing is as > big as the man and there is no sign wave. It was shot with digital > equipment from a studio. In addition see my latest post to Bob Shell for > more info. Michael - In all courtesy, I did look at the photo, and it isn't possible to determine the size of the object from the photo. The fact is that a nearby small object can have the same apparent size as a larger more distant object. The contention of those who are not convinced by these photos is that the object is near to the lens and small. None of the photos at the website are proof of the objects photographed having a specific distance from the camera, and without that, it is not mathematically possible to determine the object size or speed. Intuition is no good here. You have to make the measurements to do the math, and the measurements haven't been made. None of the claims about size or proximity at the website can be supported without the measurements. Bob Shell or anyone correct me if I'm wrong, but here are the formulae (scavenged from a few odd sources and changed to meet my needs in a spreadsheet): Sight Distance = Ground Distance /cos(Elevation*(@PI/180)) Altitude = tan(Elevation*(@PI/180))*Ground Distance :Actual Size In Feet =(tan(Angular Size*(@PI/180))*Sight Distance)*5280 :Altitude In Feet = Altitude *5280 Seconds To Go n Degrees = n * Angular Speed Per Second Mins To Go n Degrees = Seconds To Go n Degrees / 60 Estimated Speed = (tan(Angular Speed Per Second *(@PI/180))* Sight Distance)*3600 Variables needed: Ground Distance (mi) Elevation (degrees) Angular Size (degrees) Angular Speed per Second (degrees) NOTE: @PI/180 is the conversion factor to make degrees into radians, needed by tan and cos I am sorry if this attitude seems like some sort of scientific fascism to some, but the truth is that there are some basic things which can be done to prove the size and distance of these objects and they haven't been done. Serious suggestions in this regard have been made by every "rod" skeptic writing to this list, in what can only be regarded as a friendly attempt to help out. In the absence of a ruler distance to the objects, the only other way to get this distance is triangulation or occultation (an object in front of the "rod"). Now some of the photos at the website claim to demonstrate occultation, but, unfortunately, as mentioned in an earlier post, they are all ambiguous, and may not actually be demonstrating occultation. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 17 An independent test of 'rods' From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 03:21:35 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 04:39:12 -0400 Subject: An independent test of 'rods' This is forwarded with permission: ---- >From Burt Brown: Approximately a year ago, I spoke with John for quite sometime on the phone in my duties of handling UFO reports. He layed out what he was doing and expressed much the same thing that he does in the letter below (snipped). He assured me that there were numerous professional camermen with broadcast video equipment {very high quality models, Betacam, etc} that had captured some of these UFOs on tape, using his methods. I was interested also in what he was saying, but had some ideas that would account for the phenomena. In our discussion, John assured me the craft were not the results of bugs, debris and similar items showing up on the tape. If this was true, I wanted to know what was happening right under our noses! If there was a cover-up or press blockage of what was going on, I especially wanted to know!! Bright and early the next morning.... Well, okay... Bright and early means 12 o'clock noon, for me... I got out my standard VHS video camera and solid tripod and went outside the house. First of all, I should state that when I first came to the Los Angeles area, in 1980, I began working for a large electronics retailer where I specialized in selling video equipment. After about four years, I left and set up my own video production company specializing in weddings and special event shooting. Almost anyone can do this type of work with a little care, but I just want to establish that I am quite familiar with video cameras and equipment. So outside the house, which was in a very rural area of Palmdale, Calif., high desert, clean air, sunny skies, etc. I set everything up according to what John had told me. I used a corner of the roof's edge to block the major portion of the sun, resulting in a shaded lens, but still the bright "halo" or "sunglow" being evident. I was especially interested in this technique because someone I respect, longtime researcher Bill Hamilton, had a number of months prior videoed several STATIONARY bright objects using a similar arrangement. I had seen Bill's work and there was something inexplainable there in the bright desert sky, certainly at a time, noonish, that a star would never be visible! Not only Bill took these shots but several other people I knew and on numerous occasions. I was hoping to get something similar to Bill's work. Wow, if I could get a space craft on tape, I'd be thrilled!! I roll the camcorder {RCA full size model...if ferget, which}. John had suggested using a very high shutter speed to better capture a clear image of the UFOs. For those who aren't into film photography, a faster shutter speed tends to "stop" a moving object passing in front of the lens. The faster the shutter speed, the less blurred the moving image tends to be. The same thing is suppose to happen with a camcorders "shutter" speed. The difference is that a camcorder, at least the ones I know about, don't really have a "shutter" like a photographic camera. The shutter on a video camera or camcorder is really a circuit that electronically simulates the physical shutter of a film camera. It has been my experience in most cases that this is a very crude simulation. It WILL reduce motion blur, but it does not, on most cameras, result in the same clarity as you would get from a focal plane shutter or leaf type shutter in film cameras. A ten thousandths of a second shutter speed with average film will freeze most common objects in a photograph, but the same ten thousandths of a second setting on a camcorder will not result in the same reduction of blur. When I was all set up, I started the camcorder and at the same time watched down the side of the camera (not through the viewfinder} into the "sunglow" area of where the lens was framed. If I saw any debris or bugs in the frame area, I yelled "BUG" or whatever it looked like. I also tried looking throught the viewfinder to see if I could see any flashes of something that might be a speedy UFO. I yelled out whenever I saw something in the finder. CAUTION: NEVER POINT THE CAMCORDER DIRECTLY AT THE SUN OR LOOK THROUGH THE VIEWFINDER AT THE SUN, you simply want backlighting. I then took the tape in and played it at regular speed. HEY, I ACTUALLY CAPTURED UFOs ON TAPE!!!! Maybe, I should say, I captured UFBs on tape, Unidentified Flying Bugs! All types of junk was blowing through the air, and made very brilliant by the sun's strong backlighting. I wrote down what the tape's stopwatch position was when I heard the "Bug" There was a direct corrolation between my yell of bug and a flash on the screen. Now, the next part involves slow motion or freeze frame on your VCR. In slow motion, these pieces of blowing grass and bugs became SPECTACULAR UFOs! Most appearing in only a few frames, the same positions I wrote down from the stopwatch recorded on the tape. I could almost always match the tape position with the yell and stopwatch position. You can test this for yourself very simply by setting up, side by side, your camcorder and a good 35mm SLR film camera loaded with say, 200 speed film. Use the instruction that John and others give about shading the lens of both, frame the same section of sky with both, as closely as possible, use a similar range zoom, etc. DO NOT LOOK OR POINT EITHER CAMERA DIRECTLY AT THE SUN. THERE IS A SMALL CHANCE THAT DAMAGE COULD COME TO THE CCD OF THE CAMCORDER AND VERY DEFINITE POSSIBILITIES THAT YOU COULD CAUSE DAMAGE TO YOU EYE! Set your 35mm and camcorder to the highest matching speed. Example: If your 35mm goes to one ten thousandth of a second, and your camcorder does too, set both for that. If your 35mm only goes to five thosuandths of a second, set both to that. On the 35mm, use a flexible shutter release cable or air bulb release for convenience, because you'll have to be looking through the camcorder's viewfinder. If your camcorder has a stopwatch mode, pop that up in the viewfinder so you can locate exact positions later on. Roll tape and when you see something bright flash past the camcorder lens, YELL as you fire the 35mm at the same time. Yell "ONE" for the first, "TWO" for the second to keep track of film sequence. It is to audibly mark the point on the video for later examination. Be sure to keep track of how many shots you took, the sequence should match your counter yells. Keep this up till you are out of film. Take the film to a one hour photo shop and then take them back home to compare. You must be sure the pictures are in the correct order or you will have wasted time and money. The negative number should help. Just don't go flipping through the photos and sticking them back anyplace. I can assure you this will get you confused and ruin the test. Play the tape and match the photo to the numbered yell. In the test that I did, it was much easier to see in the photographs that what was on the video was debris, tiny seed pods and insects. The better quality motion stopping ability of the focal plane shutter in the 35mm camera did a great deal to clear up what would otherwise have been a neat UFO flashing past the camcorder lens. Burt Brown ---- ---- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 17 The 'UFO Spotters Guide' From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 03:34:33 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 04:40:55 -0400 Subject: The 'UFO Spotters Guide' Dedicated to: John Koopmans, (for requesting it!<G>) O-K, it'll make the job easier if we just concentrate on daytime skies for now. Besides, daylight UFO sightings are much more exciting and rewarding because of the increased visibility afforded by well lit seeing conditions. The following items are not absolutely essential but they are extremely helpful. Most folks already have one or two of them on hand anyway. 1. A good (working) pair of binoculars. 7x35 or 8x50's are fine. Anything with higher magnification would require a suppot mounting or tripod in order to keep the view steady. Alternatively a spotting scope or even that old Sears refractor that's been collecting dust in the closet or basement will do nicely. ANY optical aid is a benefit. (Opera glasses will do as well Greg. <VBG>) 2. A camera. My personal preference (prejudice) is for 35mm SLR camreas. With a good telephoto lens if available. An average 50mm lens is fine if that's all that's available. If you don't own a camera, one of those disposable Kodak jobs is adequate. The important thing is to have a means to _record_ a sighting should you have one. 3.(Optional, but great if you do) A videocam on a tripod. To those lucky bastards who own digital cameras I recommend using the videocam rather than the film camera. If it's just a regular 'family style' videocam try to get pictures through both the videocam and on film. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- BTW- I'm giving up slow head to anyone who can help me get my mits on a digital videocamera! <G> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Aside from those few items all you need is time and patience. Judging by the frequency of the sightings I've been having the last two years, you won't have long to wait either. Your patience, persistence and consistency will eventually pay off. It doesn't matter where you are. This is a global phenomenon. And, if they let _me_ see em, they must not care 'who' sees them! <G> What to look for: 1. The "Hocky Puck" UFO. (See attached illustration #1) Amost all of the strange objects I have witnessed resemble the thing in illustration #1 when viewed through binoculars, (if, the object is close enough to permit it.) They look like shiny silver metallic (flying) hamburger buns when viewed up close. 2. From a distance. (See illustration #2) This is most likely what most folks will see if and when they get the opportunity. Study this one carefully. They appear as either bright stars hovering or moving against the daylight sky or as hard white, spherical dots. 3. Learn the contents of the sky. (This will take a little time because the learning process is accomplished by repitition.) The more birds, airplanes and balloons that you see the easier it becomes to spot them, identify them, and dismiss them. 4. UFO's have very distinctive flight characteristics. (See illutration #3) These objects can hover, take off and stop on a dime, execute impossible turns, and demonstrate (literally) breathtaking accelleration. There is no mistaking the odd movements in the sky of a UFO. Planes, birds, and balloons all move in a way that is easy to learn familiarize yourself with and use for comparison. When you have an "unknown" in your sites you'll know it right away by it's appearance and or movement in the sky. If anyone has any questions or needs any specific information, fire away. I'm just glad that some folks are interested and willing to help document this amazing phenomenon. John (*spottin those racoons from all the way upstsate) Velez (*George Costanza, 'Lost his glasses' episode, Sienfeld) John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze From: Murray Bott <murrayb@kiwi.gen.nz> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:42:24 +1200 Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 04:41:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze Greetings Barbara Could I ask you a big favour. Would it be possible to send me a copy of the Paper on the Gulf Breeze Case which you mention was given to Walt Andrus (and others) Certainly an electronic version will be welcome (as a hard copy would also) Many thanks in advance Regards -- Domain : murrayb@kiwi.gen.nz Voice : 64-9-6345285 Snail : PO Box 27117, Mt Roskill, Auckland 1030, New Zealand
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: 'Huge Cache' of Secret UFO Documents? From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 06:25:18 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:54:51 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Huge Cache' of Secret UFO Documents? >Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:46:31 -0400 (EDT) >From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> >Subject: UFOR: Investigative Reporting into UFOs and the Military >To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Michael Ravnitzky <mikerav@ix.netcom.com> >Investigative Reporting into UFOs and the Military: >A New Research Tool >by Michael Ravnitzky, mikerav@ix.netcom.com [text deleted] >According to Gery D. Heulsemen, TSgt, USAF, who runs the FOIA program at >NAIC, his office has recently obtained 2959 pages of SF-135 forms which >describe in detail the contents of these boxes, many still classified, >shipped over to archives over the past fifty years. The SF-135s cover the >time period, 1953 through 1982, approximately. According to Heulseman, no >one has ever requested a set of these forms. He adds that the forms have >not been entered or scanned into an electronic database, nor is it likely >that they will be. However, he feels that these forms could help locate >records responsive to the types of requests that they receive through the >Air Force. In most cases, however, his office simply does not have the >time to peruse these pages in order to try to locate responsive records. That is not entirely accurate. I have an FOIA request in Huelsman's hands that I had sent last Spring, and in a telephone conversation indicated that he would get back in touch with he had the SF-135 in an organized form. I suspect that he has misplaced the request. I will give him a call, and see what can be worked out. FUFOR has already obtained more than 900 pages of material regarding "Project Sign" and "Project Grudge" documents from 1947-1949 as a result of that request, and some of that material has already been forwarded to Jan Aldrich for "Project 1947" But I wouldn't want to get everyone too excited here. SF-135 often fail to mention documents stored in the specific box they refer to, and the descriptions they give are very sparse at times. You are talking about scanning nearly 3,000 documents for a hint that might lead to another FOIA request to obtain the document referred to. This is a monumental task, not to mention the expense of paying for the copies (which can be a bit much if this is only a "hobby"). If I learn anything more, I'll post it here. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: 'Rods'? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:46:44 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:59:47 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? >Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:56:18 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Rods'? >The "rods" have interested me some, too. But in your above "for >instance," Mark, your distance from the camera of 1/3 of an inch seems >like a strange choice, since with a camera focussed near infinity I don't >think you'd see any definite image of anything 1/3 inch away. Bob? The range of distances at which something will be rendered more or less sharply (depth of field) depends on a number of factors. The most important ones are lens focal length and lens aperture (f/stop). On an automatic zoom video camera, we really don't know either, but let's assume that we are dealing with the lens at a relatively wide angle setting. Focal length to produce a specific angle of coverage depends on the size of the film or sensor. Since the CCD chip (image sensor) in a video camera is very small (about 8 mm across in most cases), it takes a very short focal length to produce a wide angle on such a chip. My video camera has a zoom range of 5.2 - 72.8 mm. At the 5.2 mm setting the depth of field is enormous. At a moderate lens aperture (f/8 - f/11) the depth of field extends from the front surface of the lens to infinity, so an insect zooming by at 1 mm from the lens front surface would still be rendered relatively clearly. I've asked Jose to send me details on the video camera(s) he has used to shoot these videos of rods. Once he tells me this, I can have a better idea of the limitations. I haven't had time to do it yet, but I intend to go and look at some of my home videos shot on hot, buggy summer days and see if I have captured any rods. I wouldn't be surprised to find that they also exist here in Virginia. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: 1909 Delaware/New Location for Airships From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:53:29 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:01:44 -0400 Subject: Re: 1909 Delaware/New Location for Airships > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:30:26 +0100 > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 1909 Delaware/New Location for Airships > > Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:01:48 -0700 > > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > > To: updates@globalserve.net Hi Don, > > ===================================================================== > > Wilminton, Delaware MORNING NEWS, 2 August 1909 > > SEE AIRSHIPS AT NIGHT > > People of Middletown Tell Tales of Ghostly Dirigible with > > Lights > > MIDDLETOWN, August 1.--A mysterious airship which flies > > only at night is causing considerable excitement and keeping > > the people of Orange county residing between Goshen and Newburg > > up nights in their efforts to get a look at it. For the past > > month persons who have been out late at night have reported > > seeing an airship, but few believed the stories. > This is either a hoax or a UFO. It certainly is not a creature of 1909 > technology. First, There were no airships manufactured in the United > States, or at least none recorded until about the first of the WW I. > Two, it certainly wasn't a secret developement of the military. The > United States Army wasn't even astute enough to take the Wright Flyer > when the brothers offered it to them for developement, after they had > flown it for some time. For that reason they turned it over to an > European Museum (I think French) and it wasn't returned until the 70s or > 80s. Third, there's that night time thing again. Flying at night had to > be one of the most dangerous things you could do back then. It certainly > wouldn't have been done for pleasure. The two most common explanations for airship sightings are hoaxes and Venus. Hoaxes are usually fire balloons used to celebrate the 4th of July or other holidays (these were later outlawed in the United States), hot air balloons and lights or lanterns attached to kites. All the way back to 1897 newspapers are instructing people how to make hot air balloons. Tall tales and journalistic hoaxing is right up there with actual hoaxes. Most sightings which resemble modern UFOs are in retrospective reports made after the UFO era began. However, as with modern reports there are interesting cases after the obvious mistakes and hoaxes are stripped away. Flying at night may have been dangerous. However, never underestimate the stupidity of early aviators. > > For a week or more the flying machine had not been seen, but > > at 11 o'clock last night it made its appearance near Goshen. It > > was flying high in the air and carried a light which attracted > > attention. > Again, why the light (which of course is one of the questions we still > ask today) and how did they power it. Lanterns or safety lamps are possibilities. > > It flew very fast and was last seen traveling in the direction > > of Newburg. Those who have seen the machine say it is shaped like > > a balloon and has wings on each side and a cigar-shaped car > > underneath. The sound of a motor was distinctly heard by those who > > saw the machine. > Well there you have it. Flying "very fast" and Aviation were not words > that went together in 1909. It was not one of the characteristics of the > aircraft of the day even if it wasn't an airship. Pilots in prop driven > aircraft were lucky to get 70 miles per hour out of their machines. > Locomotives passed them all the time. Hell some J-3 Piper Cubs flying > today, still get passed regularly by highway traffic and they are alot > more streamlined than the flivers of the day. "Very fast" in those day was something different than today. > I'm at a loss as to how these people could make out detatils of this > thing at night and a motor? That really throws me. That alone would tend > to make me believe a hoax was being perpetrated here. Imagination and suggestion could be at work here. This report was interesting as it is from an area where airship sightings were previous unknown in the 1909-10 period. > Regards, > Don Ledger > > ===================================================================== > Jan Aldrich Project 1947 http://www.iufog.org/project1947/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:50:14 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:21:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze > From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:12:14 -0500 > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Paper on Gulf Breeze. > This is a simple request. I have been censored. That means that YOU > don't have what you need to make up your own minds using all the > info available. You were given just so much and no more, just like the > censorship of the regular media. I am asking that people with web > sites, from any country, contact me personally and allow me to send you > the paper and if you think what I have presented is reasonable, thought > out and well presented, then put it on your site so it can be read by > all. Why not post your paper on Gulf Breeze here? We've had many lengthy documents. Do it! Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: An independent test From: William.Hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com Date: Wednesday, 17 September 1997 8:31am MT Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:22:13 -0400 Subject: Re: An independent test >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> >Subject: An independent test of rods >Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 03:21:35 -0700 >This is forwarded with permission: ---- >From Burt Brown: >So outside the house, which was in a very rural area of >Palmdale, Calif., high desert, clean air, sunny skies, etc. >I set everything up according to what John had told me. I >used a corner of the roof's edge to block the major portion >of the sun, resulting in a shaded lens, but still the bright >"halo" or "sunglow" being evident. I was especially >interested in this technique because someone I respect, >longtime researcher Bill Hamilton, had a number of months >prior videoed several STATIONARY bright objects using a >similar arrangement. >I had seen Bill's work and there was something >inexplainable there in the bright desert sky, certainly at >a time, noonish, that a star would never be visible! Not >only Bill took these shots but several other people I knew >and on numerous occasions. Just to add a note of clarification, I did not use a "technique" to videotape the object over Lancaster. We had been observing this metallic-looking object stationing itself over Lancaster-Palmdale nearly everyday. After hovering for 1 to 2 hours, it would sometimes move slowly away and at other times it would move at a blurrr...and sometimes reverse its course 180 degrees. We videotaped one of these object for nearly 2 hours. It was separated from the sun's position by anywhere from 15 to 20 degrees when we initially spotted it. I observed it with binoculars and a 60mm Meade telescope. We then proceeded to video tape this object with 2 cameras. In the very last segment, one can see a second object moving from west to east by the stationary object. Since that time I have only videotaped what I first check out with binoculars. John Bro saw my report and video and invented this sun-blocking technique where the video is set up and just keeps taping. I know there is a problem with this technique as when looking at the bright skies over Lancaster, CA with binoculars, I could see all kinds of debris blowing around in the sky. Dragonflies were buzzing around where I had not noticed them before. What we observed back in 93-94-95 was a bright object at very high altitude. Even though the sun would advance along the ecliptic, this object maintained a stationary position with respect to the earth and was not affected by winds. My advice when videotaping is to first observe the candidate UFO especially through binoculars and make sure it is not an object that is readily identifiable - then videotape. Of course, there are techniques to taping which I will not go into here. Sincerely, Bill Hamilton Exec Dir Skywatch Int. Search for other documents from or mentioning: william.hamilton |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: UFO sighting with John Velez From: stenger@spindle.net (stenger@spindle.net)[Sharolyn Stenger] Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:36:29 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:25:53 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez >Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:55:35 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez >>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >>To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: UFO sighting with John Velez >>Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:04:29 -0400 >>Damn...I can't deliver on this promise, to provide a photo of >>whatever it was that John and I saw >>>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >>>To: "UFO Updates (E-mail)" <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: UFO sighting with John Velez >>>Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:56:48 -0400 >>>John took photographs of whatever it was, and gave me the film. >>>After I've developed it, I'll scan a shot, and upload it here. >>The film didn't come out. It was completely blank. Conspiracy >>theorists, start your engines - though I'd go for a prosaic >>explanation. >>Greg Sandow >Hi Errol, Greg, >Doesn't matter Greg, no ones paying attention anyway! Apparently we're >only talking to each other for all the response that the sighting report >has triggered. snip >I'll notify you privately (as no-one here cares much one way or the other.) >I guess a sighting or a case has to have mold on it before any "researcher" >will deem it 'worthy to investigate.' You gotta remember that if they >investigate anything current they run the risk of actually finding some >evidence. Or worse yet, seeing something themselves that they'll have to >try to explain. Not so easy when the shoe is on the other foot. snip >They cannot take the time to >examine current sighting reports because they are very heatedly engaged >discussing and debating cases from before WWII snip > John Velez > jvif@spacelab.net Okay, John I'll answer you. You might remember that I sent you a private email after one of your recent sighting reports. I seldom have the guts to respond to the posts on this list for the following reasons: 1. I'm nobody. I don't remember being abducted. I had one too-close for-comfort UFO sighting way back in 1973, and am "resting on those laurels" with the rest of the "armchair UFO researchers." People like me are either ignored or chuckled at by the "real" researchers. However, when they are selling books, I suddenly become their best friend. 2. I have no scientific, photographic, aeronautic, or geologic credentials. Since I can't argue how an incandeskian gromscrew is technologically adapted to murping a holomorphic marmafling, I just kinda skim through those posts and wait patiently for somebody like John Velez to report a UFO sighting. Am I the only person on this list who subscribed to hear about events that the news media choose to ignore? 3. Even the most respected, knowledgeable UFO "experts" on this list are ripped to shreds when they voice an opinion. I guess that's part of the game. As for me, when the playing gets rough, this little coward gathers up her marbles and goes home. So, John. Don't ever think us nobodies aren't listening. Maybe we just can't fight our way through the boisterous mob of Illustrious UFO Research Expert Leaders to quietly say, "Wow, John. Another sighting? What are they? Where do they come from? Has one ever crashed? Does the government know about this?" Will those questions ever be answered? Certainly not by us lazy armchair UFO buffs and probably not by the boisterous mob. Keep watchin' them skies. Maybe I should put my armchair out on the porch. <G> Sharolyn
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:53:10 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:27:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings John - It's a bit unfair for you or anyone else to be slamming people who are doing good and important research simply because they have not attempted to investigate your sighting reports. We're on a mailing list, not local to you, and it is impractical to attempt to investigate a sighting without being able to visit the location, obtain azimuth and elevation readings, timelines, determine local air traffic paths, contact local resources on flights, balloon launchings, etc. In addition, investigations are time-consuming, and many of us have our own projects. It can take days to do a proper investigation to determine the unknown status of a sighting even under the best of conditions. Just looking at photos is not sufficient to determine the "unknown" status of a sighting, as I'm sure you know. I would recommend that you ask the local MUFON or CUFOS director to assign someone to investigate your case. That is the best way to ensure a good investigation. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: Loy Pressley <lpressle@webwide.net> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:00:19 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:31:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:04:59 -0700 > > Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 04:49:50 -0700 > > From: Loy Pressley <lpressle@webwide.net> > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > > > Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > > > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:15:00 -0700 > > > > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 06:42:25 -0700 > > > > From: Loy Pressley <lpressle@webwide.net> > > > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > I think it's a little more complex than that. Science is a highly interlocking > edifice of interdependent ideas and their proofs. Each piece of the > edifice depends on many others. As the number of dependent components > increase, the "depended-on" component is established more solidly as > truth. By the same token, if any of those interdependent ideas is disproved, anything that follows after it and depends on it can, but necessarily have to, come tumbling down like a house of cards. > Down at the base of science are some axiomatic concepts which are > required if science is to work, and which cannot be contradicted except > by using them. These include the existence of an objective reality, and the > existence of consciousness within an objective reality. These are axiomatic > because you don't and can't prove them. That doesn't mean they rest > on faith, it means that you need them to disprove them. In other words, > if objective reality doesn't exist, then there's nothing to prove, because > there's nothing there. Agreed! <SNIPPED - a very good discussion of complexity> > It probably would be fair to say that we have a less deep understanding > of biology than of physics. But that does not mean we do not understand > biology, nor does it mean that we do not understand enough about > biology to be able to understand what is needed for living systems to > come into existence, to evolve, and to develop a certain level of > complexity. I think what you say is true for living systems as we know them...it may not be true if there are living systems unknown to us at our current level of investigation. For a race like us in this early stage of our development living on a very small planet circling a run-of-the-mill star in a remote corner of a very common spiral galaxy to say that life the way we know it is the only type of life that can exist in the whole huge universe is somewhat pompous of us, in my opinion. It is tantamount to the move at the turn of the century to close the U S patent office because all the inventions that there were ever going to be, had been invented. > Chemistry is key to understanding the constraints on ET life, and > systems of life which might be "not as we know it". The chemicals > used in terrestrial life are known to be common throughout the > cosmos. They have specific properties which make them good > chemicals for creating and evolving life. Other chemicals are > unlikely to be as directly useful. because their properties don't > serve the requirements of life, or because they are uncommon. Because that maybe they are not common here. Maybe they are common in other places and we just don't know that yet. > The likelier explanation is errors in the measurement system. At this > point, there is no credible evidence in astronomy or physics that basic > properties of the universe differ from one place to another. Theories > of light speed variation, "tired light" local gravitational constant > variations, etc, have all been proposed to account for various > observations, but none have yet stood to the test. Most likely, you are correct. However, based on the discussion above concerning the interdependency of scientific principals, what happens if the measurement system turns out to be incorrect? What else that we 'think' we know will have to be revised? Suppose the red shift isn't as great as we always thought it was? Then maybe we will have to revise all the distance and speed measurements we've expounded as facts all these years. > In any event, if life were dependent on such localized conditions, it > would, of course, die when it left those localized conditions. True...unless it took the local conditions with it; like in a space ship or a space suit. > > Are these unique properties true under all conditions? What happens to > > chemistry when it evolves on a planet that is larger or smaller than > > earth, has a completely different atmosphere than earth, and orbits a > > binary or even a trinary star system in a matter of days or in hundreds > > of years? > These would not affect atomic properties. Disagree...extreme gravity like that on Jupiter or a neutron star certainly has an effect on atomic properties. Don't some elements become electrically conductive when they are under extreme pressure? I think one of the UFO explanations that some people are trying to champion is earth lights created when bedrock is put under extreme pressure. Since electricity is electron flow, such would be a change in atomic property. > I think the basic characteristics of life are fairly well agreed on: > a) Maintains its integrity > b) Reproduces > c) Utilizes products of the environment for growth and repair > d) Excretes waste products > It's only when you get into things at the edges, like viruses, that there > are difficulties, but I have no problem with not considering viruses ex vitro > to not be alive. But a virus does exhibit all the things you identified so why shouldn't it be considered alive?Mark, I've really enjoyed the discussion, but I have to say that I think I am taking unfair advantage of you. I can speculate all day long because I'm not constrained by any scientific principals. You, on the other hand, are replying from a background of scientific research with documented scientific investigation to back up your conclusions; therefore, the discussion is unfairly biased in my direction. Should we go at this on a level playing field, you would win hands down. Loy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze [was: MUFON Journal Muses] From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:27:22 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:38:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze [was: MUFON Journal Muses] > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:57:39 +0200 (MET DST) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MUFON Journal Muses > >From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > >Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 12:35:03 -0500 > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MUFON Journal Muses > >How many words would you like for the article proving Ed Walters > >hoaxed his photos? > I've seen this "proof", which isn't more than a bunch of personal > opinions. Much less will it succeed in "proving" Walters hoaxed > his photos or will it refute Maccabee's work. You have only seen what you were allowed to see. The case was controlled by MUFON from the beginning. > You're still stuck with your foolish argument that the attic was > a good place to hide a prototype model he'd never use? > What about your claim that the house plan is for a house that was > built... but that this information is known only to a few people > and will probably never come out. Gee, you'd think with all the > people who're keen on disproving Walters, any such real evidence > would have surfaced long ago. Excuse me, but I havent said anything about an attic. > The bottom line is that if Barbara really had any proof we would > have heard about it by now, in the course of 8 years. You might > want to try and replace your rabidly opinionated "gut feelings" > with a more proper foundation for your claims. I don't have "gut feelings", I have law and Walters admission...in writing. BB
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Follow-up on FOIA From: XianneKei@aol.com [Rebecca Keith] Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 12:51:42 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:42:39 -0400 Subject: Follow-up on FOIA From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 06:25:18 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:54:51 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Huge Cache' of Secret UFO Documents? >> If I learn anything more, I'll post it here. Hi Steve, I appreciate the work that anyone does with respect to FOIA. It can be a daunting task. I was wondering what the status was of your effort trying to obtain Marcel's records? Is that a dead issue? Thanks, Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze [was: MUFON Journal Muses] From: nick@emailme.at.address.below (Nick Humphries) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:29:04 GMT Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:46:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze [was: MUFON Journal Muses] >Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:57:39 +0200 (MET DST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> Cannot really comment on Barbara's Gulf Breeze paper since I haven't read it, but couldn't let the final paragraph pass without comment. > The bottom line is that if Barbara really had any proof we would > have heard about it by now, in the course of 8 years. You might > want to try and replace your rabidly opinionated "gut feelings" > with a more proper foundation for your claims. Ignoring the flame... The statement that if there was "really had any proof we would have heard about it by now, in the course of 8 years" on Gulf Breeze or ANY case is an ill-founded one. This is silly - if scientists worked this way, many would give up before accomplishing any major discovery. It is also illogical - Jean's argument is that no case could be solved because, if any solution was possible, it would have been found already. This is an arrogant view and leads to the creation of "sacred cows". One of my irritations of ufology is that various investigators are SO involved in their cases that they refuse to accept any other solution other than their own. Turning Gulf Breeze into a sacred cow won't help the subject AT ALL. Finally, suggesting that if a case hasn't been solved after a small period of time, then it is unsolvable stifles any debate and stunts any possible further growth in the subject. For someone who promotes... > Science, Logic, and the UFO Debate: > http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/index.html ...this is very surprising. ------------------------------------------------------- Nick Humphries, nick@the-den.clara.net, at your service If the Truth is Out There, what's In Here? ------------------------------------------------------- The Your Sinclair Rock'n'Roll Years http://www.the-den.clara.net/ys/cover.htm -------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze [was: MUFON Journal Muses] From: nick@emailme.at.address.below (Nick Humphries) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:29:08 GMT Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:47:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze [was: MUFON Journal Muses] >Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:42:24 +1200 >From: Murray Bott <murrayb@kiwi.gen.nz> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Paper on Gulf Breeze >Greetings Barbara >Could I ask you a big favour. >Would it be possible to send me a copy of the Paper on the Gulf Breeze Case >which you mention was given to Walt Andrus (and others) >Certainly an electronic version will be welcome (as a hard copy would also) If the paper isn't going to be published in a journal, perhaps it could be posted here? ------------------------------------------------------- Nick Humphries, nick@the-den.clara.net, at your service If the Truth is Out There, what's In Here? ------------------------------------------------------- The Your Sinclair Rock'n'Roll Years http://www.the-den.clara.net/ys/cover.htm -------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: UFO sighting with John Velez From: "Shevlin, Donnie" <donnies@Meridinet.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:11:15 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:49:45 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez >>Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:55:35 -0500 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez >>Hi Errol, Greg, >>Doesn't matter Greg, no ones paying attention anyway! Apparently we're >>only talking to each other for all the response that the sighting report >has triggered. <Large Snip> Greetings Errol, John and others, Not true John. I been lurking here for quite some time. I am appalled that not one response from those that feel qualified have contacted you about this most obvious occurrence. You have my sympathies and my attention. Donald W. Shevlin (A common man opinion)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: 1909 Delaware/New Location for Airships From: frizzell@umbc.edu (mike frizzell) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:49:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:57:06 -0400 Subject: Re: 1909 Delaware/New Location for Airships >Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:53:29 -0700 >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 1909 Delaware/New Location for Airships >> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:30:26 +0100 >> From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 1909 Delaware/New Location for Airships >> > Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:01:48 -0700 >> > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) >> > To: updates@globalserve.net >Hi Don, >> > ===================================================================== >> > Wilminton, Delaware MORNING NEWS, 2 August 1909 >> > SEE AIRSHIPS AT NIGHT >> > People of Middletown Tell Tales of Ghostly Dirigible with >> > Lights >> > MIDDLETOWN, August 1.--A mysterious airship which flies >> > only at night is causing considerable excitement and keeping >> > the people of Orange county residing between Goshen and Newburg >> > up nights in their efforts to get a look at it. For the past >> > month persons who have been out late at night have reported >> > seeing an airship, but few believed the stories. Hi all: It seems likely that the above article, reportedly published in the Delaware Morning News, was actually referring to aerial sightings made in New York state. The regions of Middletown, Goshen, Newburg, and Orange County are all in close proximity to each other in central New York near the Catskill Mountains. Mike Frizzell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: Writers & Fees From: clark@madison.mn.frontiercomm.net Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:42:07 PDT Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 01:01:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Writers & Fees > Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:01:32 -0400 > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Writers & Fees > Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:58:17 -0400 > From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> > Subject: Writers & Fees > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments to the List. > For the record: > I last saw Richard in Detroit in sixty-eight... and I last saw Phil Klass > in London in April at the FT UnConvention. We were sitting around gassing > in the green room, with Rebecca Keith among others (so she can probably > confirm this). Phil remarked that he had calculated that over the years he > has made about 6 cents an hour on UFO books, conference appearances and his > newsletter after expenses. Since he's been slagging off ufology for about > 30 years now I guess we can safely say he concluded a long time ago that he > wan't going to be in this business for the money. > Yours &c > Postbox D. Mailvan > Chicken Counter Howdy to Duke (and greetings from G. Cannon as well), et al., If Phil (Ufology Is Tantamount to Communism) Klass is making six cents an hour on his UFO work, count him among the best-paid writers in this business. Cheers, Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Martian Magnetic Field From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:54:45 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 01:12:07 -0400 Subject: Martian Magnetic Field Douglas Isbell Headquarters, Washington, DC. Sept. 17, 1997 (Phone: 202/358-1753) Diane Ainsworth Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA (Phone: 818/354-5011) Bill Steigerwald Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, MD (Phone: 301/286-7277) RELEASE: 97-204 MARS GLOBAL SURVEYOR DETECTS MARTIAN MAGNETIC FIELD AS AEROBRAKING BEGINS Scientists have confirmed the existence of a planet-wide magnetic field at Mars using an instrument on-board NASA's Mars Global Surveyor orbiter, as the spacecraft began to circle and study the planet from a highly elliptical orbit. "Mars Global Surveyor has been in orbit for only a few days, yet it already has returned an important discovery about the Red Planet," said Vice President Al Gore. "This is another example of how NASA's commitment to faster, better, cheaper Mars exploration that began with Mars Pathfinder is going to help answer many fundamental questions about the history and environment of our neighboring planet, and the lessons it may hold for a better understanding of life on Earth." The spacecraft's magnetometer, which began making measurements of Mars' magnetic field after its capture into orbit on Sept. 11, detected the magnetic field on Sept. 15. The existence of a planetary magnetic field has important implications for the geological history of Mars and for the possible development and continued existence of life on Mars. "Preliminary evidence of a stronger than expected magnetic field of planetary origin was collected and is now under detailed study," said Dr. Mario H. Acuna, principal investigator for the magnetometer/electron reflectrometer instrument at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, MD. "This was the first opportunity in the mission to collect close-in magnetic field data. Much more additional data will be collected in upcoming orbits during the aerobraking phase of the mission to further characterize the strength and geometry of the field. The current observations suggest a field with a polarity similar to that of Earth's and opposite that of Jupiter, with a maximum strength not exceeding 1/800ths of the magnetic field at the Earth's surface." This result is the first conclusive evidence of a magnetic field at Mars. "More distant observations obtained previously by the Russian missions Mars 2,3 and 5 and Phobos 1 and 2 were inconclusive regarding the presence or absence of a magnetic field of internal origin," said Acuna. The magnetic field has important implications for the evolution of Mars. Planets like Earth, Jupiter and Saturn generate their magnetic fields by means of a dynamo made up of moving molten metal at the core. This metal is a very good conductor of electricity, and the rotation of the planet creates electrical currents deep within the planet that give rise to the magnetic field. A molten interior suggests the existence of internal heat sources, which could give rise to volcanoes and a flowing crust responsible for moving continents over geologic time periods. "A magnetic field shields a planet from fast-moving, electrically charged particles from the Sun which may affect its atmosphere, as well as from cosmic rays, which are an impediment to life," Acuna said. "If Mars had a more active dynamo in its past, as we suspect from the existence of ancient volcanoes there, then it may have had a thicker atmosphere and liquid water on its surface." It is not known whether the current weaker field now results from a less active dynamo, or if the dynamo is now extinct and what the scientists are observing is really a remnant of an ancient magnetic field still detectable in the Martian crust. "Whether this weak magnetic field implies that we are observing a fossil crustal magnetic field associated with a now extinct dynamo or merely a weak but active dynamo similar to that of Earth, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune remains to be seen," Acuna said. Mars Global Surveyor's magnetometer discovered the outermost boundary of the Martian magnetic field -- known as the bow shock -- during the inbound leg of its second orbit around the planet, and again on the outbound leg. The discovery came just before Mars Global Surveyor began its first aerobraking maneuver to lower and circularize its orbit around Mars, said Glenn Cunningham, Mars Global Surveyor project manager at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), Pasadena, CA. "This first 'step down' into the upper atmosphere was performed in two stages," Cunningham said. "On Sept. 16, during the farthest point in the spacecraft's orbit, called the apoapsis, the spacecraft fired its main engine for 6.5 seconds, slowing Global Surveyor's velocity by 9.8 miles per hour (4.41 meters per second). This maneuver lowered the spacecraft's orbit from 163 miles (263 kilometers) to 93 miles (150 kilometers) above the surface of the planet. At its closest approach to Mars this morning, known as the periapsis, the spacecraft dipped into the upper fringes of the Martian atmosphere for 27 seconds, allowing the drag on its solar panels to begin the long aerobraking process of circularizing its orbit." Mars Global Surveyor will continue aerobraking through the Martian atmosphere for the next four months, until its orbit has been circularized and it is flying about 234 miles (378 kilometers) above the Martian surface. All systems and science instruments onboard the spacecraft continue to perform normally after six days in orbit around the red planet. Additional information about the magnetic field discovery and the Mars Global Surveyor mission is available on the World Wide Web by accessing the JPL home page at: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov or at the Goddard Space Flight Center magnetometer site at: http://mgs-mager.gsfc.nasa.gov Meanwhile, NASA's Hubble Space Telescope (HST) has continued monitoring the atmospheric conditions on Mars to help planning for the Mars Global Surveyor aerobraking activity. The latest HST Mars image, taken Sept. 12 with the Wide Field Planetary Camera 2 under the direction of Phil James of the University of Toledo and Steve Lee of the University of Colorado, is available on the Internet at the following URLs: http://oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/PR/gif/mars0609.gif (GIF), http://oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/PR/jpeg/mars0609.jpg (JPEG) and via links in: http://oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/PR/97/31.html Mars Global Surveyor is the first mission in a sustained program of robotic Mars exploration, known as the Mars Surveyor Program. The mission is managed by the Jet Propulsion Laboratory for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, DC. JPL's industrial partner is Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, CO, which developed and operates the spacecraft. JPL is a division of the California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, CA. -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Conference on Unexplained Phenomena From: frizzell@umbc.edu (mike frizzell) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:18:36 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 01:50:29 -0400 Subject: Conference on Unexplained Phenomena The 24th Annual Conference on Anomalous Phenomena The International Fortean Organization (INFO) presents FORTFEST '97 Ambassador Ballroom, Ramada Inn of Bethesda, Maryland November 8th & 9th, 1997 For more details please see the INFO Homepage at: http://www.research.umbc.edu/~frizzell/info
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: MUFON Journal Muses From: RGates8254@aol.com Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:37:52 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 01:51:37 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON Journal Muses In a message dated 97-09-16 02:39:40 EDT, you write: > Mr. Stacy: > How many words would you like for the article proving Ed Walters > hoaxed his photos? > Barbara Opinion pieces go on OPed pages or letters to the editor. cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 UK.UFO.NW irc guest Michael Lindermann From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:03:02 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 01:55:00 -0400 Subject: UK.UFO.NW irc guest Michael Lindermann UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK Saturday 20th September 1997 Special Guest - Michael Lindemann UK.UFO.NW are very proud to announce that Michael Lindemann world respected ufologist, editor of the excellent and very popular CNI News internet magazine and resident UFO/ET commentator on the nationally syndicated radio program "Sightings On The Radio" will be answering your questions live in a moderated meeting taking place on the uk.ufo.nw IRC channel. Connecting instructions and world times are below. The meeting will commence live at the following world times. This is not a definitive list. Times will vary depending on your part of the world. United Kingdom: 11pm Auckland: 10am (Sunday) Beijing: 6am (Sunday) Berlin: Midnight Cairo: 1am (Sunday) Colorado Springs: 4pm Hong Kong: 6am (Sunday) Jo'Burg: Midnight Las Vegas: 3pm Los Angeles: 3pm Moscow: 2am (Sunday) New Delhi: 4am (Sunday) New Orleans: 5pm New York: 6pm Paris: Midnight Perth: 7am (Sunday) Rio De Janeiro: 7pm Riyadh: 1am (Sunday) Rome: Midnight Singapore: 6am (Sunday) Sydney: 9am (Sunday) Tel Aviv: 1am (Sunday) Tokyo: 7am (Sunday) If you are using one of the dedicated IRC programs such as the excellent MIRC available free from: http://www.mirc.co.uk/index.html enter one of the below irc server addresses into your program. The nearer the server to your location the faster the connection. If one fails then try another. London.UK.EU.UltraNET.Org Belgrade.YU.EU.UltraNet.org Kalemegdan.YU.EU.UltraNet.org Singidunum.YU.EU.UltraNet.org Bor.YU.EU.UltraNet.org Zemun.YU.EU.UltraNet.org Channels.UltraNET.Org Uppsala.SE.EU.UltraNET.Org Hardanger.NO.EU.UltraNET.Org Uworld.UltraNET.Org Bergen.NO.EU.UltraNET.Org Neuilly.FR.EU.UltraNET.Org Hofors.SE.EU.UltraNET.Org Mons.BE.EU.UltraNET.Org Atlanta.GA.US.Ultranet.org Johnson-City.TN.US.UltraNet.Org Cleveland.OH.US.UltraNET.Org Once you are connected to a server join channel: #UFO You can also use your java compatible web browser to join in the meeting such as: Netscape 3 ++ or MS Internet Explorer 4 ++ By going to any of the below www addresses you will be automatically connected to the uk.ufo.nw IRC #UFO channel. All you have to do is supply a nickname when prompted. http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/ultrachat.html http://www.maygale.org/07/eyesonly http://www.geocities/Area51/Cavern/2646 http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/ultrachat.htm http://www.ultranet.org/webchat/ufo.html http://web.ukonline.co.uk/colin.light/ultrachat.htm http://web.ukonline.co.uk/phil.light http://www.ufo.grid9.net/ufo.html http://www.us.ultranet.org/webchat/ufo.html http://www.no.ultranet.org/webchat/ufo.html http://crowman.demon.co.uk/ultrachat.html -------------------------- ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk United Kingdom UFO Network http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk --------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Airship over Central Asia From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:39:05 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 02:46:18 -0400 Subject: Airship over Central Asia Another airship item from Dr. Bullard. 1909 June 19, Japan Weekly Mail (Yokohama), page 822. OUR ST. PETERSBURG LETTER St. Peterburg, May 20. A number of observers were struck by the apparition in Tashkent of a mysterious aeroplane, which traversed a considerable area of the Province, as attested by eyewitnesses. No explanation is forthcoming of this manifestation, but newspapers from widely separated districts report the occurrance. A suggestion has been made that the aeroplane is from British India, which it is said, experiments have been in progress for some time in secret. =============================================================== Tashkent, The Stone City, is in present day Uzbekistan. At the time it was part of Imperial Russia. -- Jan Aldrich Project 1947 http://www.iufog.org/project1947/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 'UFOs and Religion' On Vision TV, Canada's From: "Kevin O'Keefe" <kokeefe@web.net> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:54:30 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 02:57:08 -0400 Subject: 'UFOs and Religion' On Vision TV, Canada's Errol, Just to let you know, the stories I did on UFOs and Religion will be broadcast on Vision TV's daily show "Skylight" on Wednesday Oct. 1 (pt.1) and Wednesday Oct. 8th (pt.2). Part 1 - tells how an aboriginal woman's alien abduction helped her reclaim her native spirituality and culture. Years of abuse at Residential boarding school tried to destroy her spirit, but her contact with the "Skypeople" not only reconnected her to her culture, it kept her alive. Part 2 - Is a profile of Dr. Barry Downing, author of "The Bible and Flying Saucers" This story explores how a Presbyterian Minster's belief in UFOs helped to strengthen his belief in God. (Giving the reaction of your list members to threats by Christian Fundamentalists, I think a lot of them would find his prespective quite refreshing). The show is broadcast at 7pm PT/ET. Other regions of Canada will have to adjust their clock appropriately. Also Vision is located on several different dial positions, usually between 20-30. Easiest thing is to check local listings for station number and times. Thanks again to your organization for helping me with my project. I'm quite pleased with the finished product and welcome any feedback. Kevin O'Keefe Vision TV
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 American Computer And The Phoenix Connection From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 01:34:02 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:11:42 -0400 Subject: American Computer And The Phoenix Connection The following was found in the transcripts section of Art Bell's message board. The URL: http://bbs.artbell.com/cgi-bin/WebX?14@@.ee7039a/0 Jack Schulman on Sept 14, 1997 Transcribed by Chris Terraneau (terranea@nicimg.com) sysop - 02:03am Sep 17, 1997 PDT (#1 of 1) Keith Rowland >From Art Bell's Dreamland radio program, 14 September 1997: LH =3D Linda Howe AB =3D Art Bell JS =3D Jack Schulman (sp?) LH: Well, last Sunday on Dreamland and Monday night's Coast to Coast, I reported about the American Computer Company's website containing information from a consultant, who works for both the military and ACC concerning satellite communications systems. The consultant alleges that the Department of the Army retrieved debris and advanced technology in July, 1947 from two delta- shaped extraterrestrial craft at a crash site in the vicinity of Roswell, New Mexico. Some of that extraterrestrial technology was then hand delivered in September, 1947 to Bell Labs in Murray Hill, New Jersey according to this consultant. There he said, scientists back- engineered and filed for a patent on what became the transistor made of nearly pure silicon with traces of arsenic and other elements. More technology, such as integrated circuits, digital processors and modems followed from further analyis of the extraterrestrial technology, according to the consultant. Since my reports last week, many people have contacted me, some engineers, to argue both for and against the consultant's claims. In an upcoming Dreamland I hope to provide more information about the differences between the germanium diode that existed prior to September 1947 and the silicon transistor that emerged at Bell Labs in 1948, a few months later. But tonight my focus is on my trip to Cranford, New Jersey yesterday, September 13th to meet Jack Schulman (sp?), chairman of the American Computer Company, and to see his offices. American Computer Company is located on the second floor of a suite of offices in a business park. To get to ACC's floor you have to pass a security guard, and at night there are laser monitors at the outside doors. If they are interrupted signals go directly to security and to the local police department - all of which were demonstrated for me while I was there. However, Schulman showed me the pulverized glass left in the tracks of what had been the original ten foot high glass door to ACC's office before the middle of August. It was smashed by something to pieces no bigger than B-Bs, a week after he posted the consultant's information on ACC's webpage at the consultant's request, and, only two days after ACC's fax machine received what appeared to be a classified military communication that the consultant said was connected to the strange lights seen by hundreds of people over Arizona on March 13th, 1997, and reported here on Dreamland, Coast to Coast, and in the national media. ACC's security and local police did not know how intruders got past the laser alarm system, nor why pulverized pieces of this huge ten foot glass door were scattered for fifty feet down the hall toward the elevators. Before the break-in, Schulman had reported the unusual military fax and its content to the Central Inteligence Agency out of concern that he had a classified document that might be urgently needed by someone in the government. The CIA duty officer he reached listened to Schulman read the fax, and said, quote, "Oh, that's an asset of the United States Air Force", and suggested Schulman contact the Pentagon. He did, and then two days later the ACC office was broken into, before anyone from the government had come for the fax. Now here is Jack Schulman from ACC... JS: We started to get these pecular faxes, and they were about the very asset that the consultant had told me had been shut down by this alien fly-by on March 13th. LH: ...That ended up... JS: That ended up over Arizona, apparently, and being reportedly seen by thousands and tens of thousands of people in Arizona. LH: Can you elaborate about what the consultant saw and knew in terms of actual fact concerning a flyover by a non-human inteligence? JS: I beleive that this was not just over Arizona, but was detected in outer space. He stated that there was something that flew over, that it had lights, and was quite obviously some form of craft. And that there was in fact a piece of equipment that the Air Force uses for surveillance that sits over the United States, and that this vehicle flew over and deactivated it. It didn't destroy it, but it shut it down. Interestingly, those odd faxes that we received here, to the tech support fax machine that you saw as you walked in - we use that as a tech support fax - that caused us after we put the article on our website, to become alarmed that we were receiving classified military faxes at our fax machine from a computer that we had developed at American Computer that is in use, it turns out, by this particular surveillance system. And that somehow it was trying to contact us which seemed a little strange - why would this computer be trying to send messages to its original manufacturer? We discovered that the Air Force equipment had originated the materials in question that ended up at our fax machine, and we subsequently contacted the nearest possible source of that information and told them that we had received these classified faxes or fax. And that these things we felt was information that belonged to them and they asked us to secure the fax. LH: How many faxes did you receive? JS: Just one, and it was cryptic, and I received two copies of it. Cryptic in the sense that it was obviously a military communications message, and it was not addressed to us. But it had a heading that said "no origin, destination: American Computer Company". LH: No origin? JS: No origin... Now the message format was a telex message format, and I recognized the format as having been something that we would commonly use with the computer in question, and that's of course why I thought the computer in question was having a nervous breakdown, and had gone through its database, found our fax machine number and called it and faxed the message to us that it was crashing, or going down. I couldn't imagine how something in space could communicate to me at a fax machine. It was bizzare, strange, and so I assumed that somehow the message had gotten routed to us, because it was a damaged message, someone had seen American Computer on it, found our contractor's fax-back telephone number for support, and sent it to us. So I was basically trying to trace back to whoever had sent it to me. It was a very strange fax to receive. LH: Can you tell me what the content was? JS: It referred to something which I have since been advised by our counsel I should not not identify the name of the asset for reasons of liability. So I can't name the device but I can say it just said this device is going down and had a series of codes on it. It was in telex transmission format, and it had an origin, time and date, a subject indicating that the device was going down, and then all the error codes associated with the device's failure. Whoever sent this to us, or whatever sent this to us, wanted us to know that this device was down. But that it had gone down, and the message looked like it had been coded to represent that it had gone down the night before. Or that day. Which was intersting because to the consultant, later when I discussed this with him, he said no, that was in fact the object that was disabled by that fly over in the middle of March that ended up being seen by all those people in Arizona. So he provided the missing piece that traced it back to the disablement of this satellite, or whatever it is. LH: Has the consultant though, ever said to you directly that he has had himself conversations either with people in Bell Labs or the Defense Department that he consults for, who has specific knowledge about any actions or intent of these extraterrestrial inteligences that gives them concern? JS: I think the disablement of this particular asset upset them, and there may have even been forms of observation of our planet, and I think you know some people have been involved with examining cattle mutillations and so forth, that have raised grave concern in their mind that probably where in fact, I, and the consultant would differ with their military thinking because in fact I beleive the public has a right to know. Even if it represents a threat, because we need to have a hand in the decision. We don't elect our public officials and have our public officials create the rules, like the Constitution, the rules of military conduct and so forth for no reason. We don't put it into the hands of an inner sanctum, and we don't put it into the hands of senior military leaders per se, without them first having to consider the fact that they are our employees, not our masters. This matter is something which perhaps is of such epoch-making or Earth-shaking importance to humanity that I think that the general concensus of all parties is required. Unfortunately I don't think that that particular opinion is mirrored throughout all parts of our government. LH: What if this extraterrestrial inteligence in fact wants the Earth and Earth life to survive and that it's intent is to make sure that humans, who seem to be on a self-destructive path in their own environment, do not destroy the planet? What if this is a positive-oriented extraterrestrial inteligence? JS: Then I think I'd have to give them tremendous points for logistical understanding of humanity's pyschology because if in fact the military holds the viewpoint that I don't agree with, that the (garbled) doesn't agree with, that is that they are potentially a threat to our existance, that would be one very good way: park a few ships off our bow and fly them by every once in a while to scare us into proceeding with caution. That in fact would scare the military to such an extent that they would, since they would beleive that they had no way of defending against these aliens, that they would not provoke them. And that would be one of the first things that would lead to a lessening of agressiveness on the part of our own military. (end of interview of Mr. Schulman) LH: Now I know that your communication from the Area 51 person was alleging concern about something not benign. And so that's a big question mark out there, Art. After receiving the fax, and the mysterious break-in, Schulman had to call the Pentagon again, because no one had responded. And finally two Air Force Office of Special Investigations agents from McGuire Air Force Base visited Schulman at ACC and grilled him about the fax. Then they took the fax and it's copy and Schulman has not heard back from anyone in the government since August. Curiously, he told me that he has heard from current Bell Labs employees, anonymously and by untraceable e-mail. He said that several have asked questions or made statements referencing secret underground installations at various Bell Labs facilities, but that he (Schulman) does not know why. AB: Wow! LH: And if this March 13th date and that flyover had some connection to this mysterious fax, and is an inside to military concern about what was in the sky over Arizona, again that policy of silence that always seems to be there might be explained. End of transcript.. (snip) Transcripts Jack Schulman on Sept 14, 1997 You must be a registered user to post a message. Please login first.=BF The opinions posted here are those of the users who posted them and are not necessarily those of the hosts, operators and providers of this service. Please report system abuse to the sysop. Copyright 1997 Keith Rowland, All Rights Reserved
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: UFO sighting with John Velez From: meccam@erols.com Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:43:31 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:14:24 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez > From: rfsignal@sprynet.com [Cathy Johnson] > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 04:18:44 -0700 > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Dear John, > I hate to say this, but I told you so. I did tell you that > there was a lot going on above the busy city lights. How many people > think to look up on such a nice bright day to catch a glimpse of > something? Are all those people around you such cattle with their > heads so deep in the grass? Probably. > There are a number of large population urban areas that are > literally spaceports of activity. Now we know that cities like, New > York, Toronto, Chichago, and etc. are actually very busy places in > more ways than one. > The abductions continue. > Take care for now, > Cathy Johnson > PS: Do you know where your children have been, really? What about ET-forsaken Washington D.C., I want to know!!!!! don't you think it's time they flew over the White House again? Been since 1952, after all. Melanie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: An independent test of 'rods' From: Michael Curta <UFOMedic@net1comm.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:56:28 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:17:28 -0400 Subject: Re: An independent test of 'rods' >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> >Subject: An independent test of rods >Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 03:21:35 -0700 >This is forwarded with permission: >---- >From Burt Brown: > Approximately a year ago, I spoke with John for quite >sometime on the phone in my duties of handling UFO reports. >He layed out what he was doing and expressed much the same >thing that he does in the letter below (snipped). He assured >me that there were numerous professional camermen with >broadcast video equipment {very high quality models, >Betacam, etc} that had captured some of these UFOs on tape, >using his methods. I was interested also in what he was >saying, but had some ideas that would account for the >phenomena. In our discussion, John assured me the craft were >not the results of bugs, debris and similar items showing up >on the tape. If this was true, I wanted to know what was >happening right under our noses! If there was a cover-up or >press blockage of what was going on, I especially wanted to >know!! [snip] Mark- I would agree 100% with you in this. Tim Edwards in Salida Colorado was the one of the first if not the first to film this and has been working with Bill. I was standing right next to him when he caught some of his first video of the "Corona of the Sun UFOs" and it is nothing more them natural organic matter that is normally in the air and bugs. But this is no way the same as the rods. Tim has sent me hours of his tapes and none of the "Corona of the Sun UFO" looks anything like rods. Michael ----
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Crop Circle Connector #43 From: Mark Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:23:23 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:20:52 -0400 Subject: Crop Circle Connector #43 What's New on the Crop Circle Connector. Wednesday 17th September 1997 at:- http://alpha.dundee.ac.uk/ft/crop_circles/anasazi/whatsnew.html ************************************************* New diagram 'Docelina' Cuxton, Nr Rochester, Kent. Drawn by Jeremy Robinson See 1997 Crop Circles at:- http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/1997.html ************************************************* CONFERENCE Evidence For ET Life At the Exeter Hall, Kidlington, Oxford. Sunday 26th October http://alpha.dundee.ac.uk/ft/crop_circles/anasazi/whatsnew.html ************************************************* CONFERENCE The next important event on the Crop Circle diary is A day Conference on Crop Circles and related phenomenon at The Cricklade Theatre Andover. Saturday 27th September http://alpha.dundee.ac.uk/ft/crop_circles/anasazi/whatsnew.html ************************************************ Update on the Deluxe Glossy 1998 Crop Circle Calender Presented by Steve Alexander at: http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/1997.html ************************************************ All the best Stuart & Mark. * The Koch Fractal, Silbury Hill, 1997 :/\: .-- --. . :\ /: . *__/\__/ \__/\__* :\ /: ./__ __\. Mark Fussell: ':\ /:' mailto:mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk .'__/ \__'. \ / Subscribe: :/_ __ __ _\: news:alt.paranormal.crop-circles * :\/: \ / :\/: * . :/ \: . The Crop Circle Connector Web Site at: .-- --. http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/connector.html :\/: *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: 'Rods'? - Conversion errors related to rods From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:17:59 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:23:21 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? - Conversion errors related to rods I made a number of conversion errors when converting insect speeds from cm/sec etc. to Imperial units (inches, feet, etc.) Here are (I hope) the corrected figures (please note that these have no effect on the contention that rods are insects, but are just included in the interest of accuracy): Shistocerca flight speed of 3 m/sec = 6.7mph In 1/10000 of a second, Shistocerca flies 0.0003 m = 0.011811 inches The honeybee flies 9km/h which is 5.59232910 mph The locust jumps at 340cm/sec which is 0.76055676 mph Air convection speeds have been measured to carry insects vertically at 8 m/sec which is 17.89545312 mph Thanks to the Duke of Mendoza who gently pointed out my complete inability to carry out these computations late at night without computer support. Henceforth, no seat of the pants conversions for this fellow. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: 'Rods'? From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 97 17:29:00 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:36:20 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? >Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:51:08 -0700 >From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) >To: Updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: 'Rods'? >distance from the camera. The movements of the objects also seemed >charaterictally "non-buglike", very elegant hairpin turns and smooth >motion almost like fish. >I'm not sure Jose is right in all his estimations about what this is >that he's caught on camera but I would strongly suggest that those >that have not seen this video refrain from attacking the research. >Still shots simply do not provide enough data to be able to tell one >way or another. The video was enough to convince me that "Rods" >deserve further study. Could you consider perhaps with Karen's computer animation experience and Jose's photography skills and film producing skills... that what we have here is the possibility that this rod film is computer animated? I am only suggesting this as a possibility because of their knowledge and thirst for the public spotlight... and their film production business. Roger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: UFO sighting with John Vele From: "WHITE" <mjawhite@digitaldune.net> [John White] Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:42:26 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:52:42 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO sighting with John Vele > From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> > To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: UFO sighting with John Velez > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:04:29 -0400 Greg wrote: > Damn...I can't deliver on this promise, to provide a photo of > whatever it was that John and I saw > >John took photographs of whatever it was, and gave me the film. > >After I've developed it, I'll scan a shot, and upload it here. > The film didn't come out. It was completely blank. Conspiracy > theorists, start your engines - though I'd go for a prosaic > explanation. Greg: Incompatible chemical feedback loop??? The visual process is a cyclic one. Rhodopsin (eye pigment) produces sequences of photoreactions caused by absorption of visible light; augmenting that process with chemicals can cause photobleaching and unregulated regeneration of rhodopsin. E.g., Eating the worm is usually not recommended after more than one bottle of Mescal. Just kidding. Murphy's law is a real bummer. John W.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: UFO sighting with John Velez From: Dan Syes <dsyes@micron.net> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:09:46 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:56:28 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez Hi John & Greg! > Doesn't matter Greg, no ones paying attention anyway! Apparently we're > only talking to each other for all the response that the sighting report > has triggered. I'd rather do _that_ over the phone than on the > open list. <G> <snip> > We'll probably get a call and some questions (in the year 2015 or > thereabouts) from some young UFO buff with an interest in 'obscure' UFO > sighting reports that happened over densly populated urban centers. Here's > to long life Greg! > Lochiam my friend. <G> > John (pissing in the wind) Velez Hold it!!! Don't stop reporting these yet!! Believe it or not, some of us out here(Speaking for myself of course) are quite interested in what you have been seeing in the skies..I read an email yesterday that questioned how you have developed your "Spotting techinque" and I'd like to hear! Since reading your emails the past year, year and a half, I've been trying to figure out how you do it.(Maybe it's your space fan club<G>) So, keep them emails coming, as I find them quite fascinating. Dan
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: UFO sighting with John Velez From: "Clark Hathaway & Julie Presson" <earthwrk@doitnow.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:16:07 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 04:14:40 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez ---------- > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: UFO sighting with John Velez > Date: Monday, September 15, 1997 1:11 AM > From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> > To: "UFO Updates (E-mail)" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: UFO sighting with John Velez > Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:56:48 -0400 > I'm sure most of us have read John Velez, when he writes about his > sightings over his home in Queens, NY. > Since he's a friend of mine, I hear about the sightings first hand. > On Saturday, 9/13, I visited him and - much to my surprise! - I saw > something, too. No surprise from me Greg... > Why was I surprised? Three reasons. Sorry my friend, I just can't resist. ;-) > 1. I've never had a UFO sighting, or even thought for half a second > that I was having one. I don't expect to look in the sky and see > something strange. I gave a talk up in Durango this weekend past and happened top make commentary on that. It is indeed interesting that out of a crowd craning their collect necks upward searching the sky for something that everyone else seems to be watching, some inevitably (or quite a few as the case may be) do not see anything. Now having stated that, I believe that I have a valid reason why in many if not most cases. Not all of us are equipped with the same expansion of awareness as perhaps the next guy. > 2. I've felt strange about John's sightings, even though he's a > friend. I know he doesn't lie, but...how can he see so many UFOs? I > haven't known what to think. I do not know John which is unfortunate because I understand he is adept like Mois at graphic art. I mention that because my research would seem to indicate that it often goes along with the territory. I have exchanged email with John on a couple of occasions, but even though I only know of him and that from what one may deduce from his contributions here ... I would be willing to wager that in private he is quite a bit more intuitive than average as well as being an individual who has a sense of purpose though he may not have a firm handle on just exactly what that purpose is. I can offer you this. I suspect that your friendship with John and most especially your proximity to him has served to heighten in some way your own awareness. I AM being most serious. :-) > 3. I messed up my schedule, and only got to John's around 5:45 PM. > That left barely an hour of daylight. How likely was a guest > appearance by a UFO? Synchronicity. ;-) > But here's what happened. We kidded around a bit, I said hello to > John's wife, John made me a sandwich. A little after 6, we went out > in the back yard. John showed me how to focus his binoculars, and I > started scanning the sky. I didn't see anything, unless you count a > passing plane, no doubt on a flight path from nearby JFK Airport. The > weather was lovely, mostly clear with some clouds. The sun hadn't yet > begun to set, so the light (in the sky, anyway) was still bright. I'd > guess we were facing approximately ENE, with the sun behind us and > slightly to our left. And here's something that made a sighting even > more unlikely, as I thought. Thanks to trees and buildings, you don't > see much of the sky from John's yard, just a small swath overhead, > though if you walk around you can see more to the east, and a good > bit more behind you to the W and NW. Still, you're not exactly given > a full view of the sky. > After I'd been scanning for a few minutes (thinking "here goes > nothing"), I heard John say, "There's one!" > "Where?" I asked, and he started pointing. Let me jump ahead here, > and point out something that helps explain why John might see things > while other people don't. He's VERY good at watching the sky. And I > don't just say that because he spotted this apparent UFO long before > I was able to. Later on, he'd point out birds and balloons that I > couldn't see. He'd keep pointing, and saying "Follow my finger!" But > only after the objects would fall in line with something obvious - > "Look at the TV antenna," he'd say, "then move your eyes directly up" > - could I find them. > That's what happened with this unusual thing we saw. He kept > pointing, and directing me, and finally I spotted it. "See the big > cloud, and smaller one on the right? Look between them." I looked, > and there it was - a small bright pinpoint. Imagine if the stars > shone by day, and you'd spotted a bright one. That might give you an > idea of what this looked like. The color was silvery white. > I put the binoculars to my eyes, and quickly found it. Magnified, it > wasn't a pinpoint any more. It definitely had shape. The shape itself > was blurry, so I can't fully describe it. But it occupied space, and > was longer than it was high. Because it seemed long and somewhat > thin, I didn't think it was anything unsual. "It's a plane," I said > to John, my eyes still glued to the binoculars, looking at the thing. > My voice, I think, was colored with simplistic confidence, as if I > was saying: "Whaddya mean, a UFO? That's just a plane!" The fact that it was blurry may be significant. > "If it's a plane," John answered, "why is it hovering?" > Good question! Basically, the thing wasn't moving. Yes, it was > jumping all over my field of view, but that's because of small > movements of my hands, a familiar phenomenon to anyone who's ever > seen the many UFO videos filmed through handheld videocams. I can't > guarantee that the thing wasn't making small movements of some kind, > but basically it was stationary. Remember that I'd already seen a > plane. Later on, I'd see more planes through the binoculars, as well > as balloons and birds. Their movement was easy to spot. In fact, to > get very detailed here, an object moving in a straight line has such > clear direction through the binoculars that, as I found, my eyes > ignored the random motion introduced by my hands. So the fact that I > noticed that motion when I looked at this thing is pretty much a > guarantee that it was mostly stationary. (Besides, when you follow a > moving plane or a balloon, you have to literally follow it, turning > to follow the movement. As I watched the thing, I kept my eyes on one > spot.) > Through the binoculars, it still was silvery white. Metallic, it's > easy to say, and shining, though when I use words like that, I'm > aware that I'm beginning to add a very subjective tone to my > description. I have no idea whether I was seeing something metal or > not. It shined the way bright metal would, I think. And its position > was consistent with reflecting the sun back at us. It was not far > from directly overhead, just a little to our north. Seems to me it > was in a position to catch the rays of the sun, coming at it from low > in the sky. > So what was it? Beats me. I've never seen anything like it before. > With the naked eye, it was like a star shining in daylight. Through > binoculars, it had a vague shape. It didn't make any major movements. > I'd guess it was in view for a minute or less. I didn't think to time > it. It seemed to be there a fairly long while, but I'm aware from > other, non-UFO experiences that I tend to overestimate the time of > any event. I'd say a minute max, maybe 30 or 45 seconds. > Finally it disappeared. I wasn't watching when it did. I thought I'd > pan the binocs around a bit, to get a sense of the background of > whatever this was. As I moved my view away from the thing, I heard > John say "It's gone." I moved the binocs around, trying to spot it > again, and couldn't find it. I couldn't spot it by eye, either. > According to John, it had simply vanished (which of course might also > mean that it flew away so quickly that we couldn't see its path). > As the evening progressed, we had some controls for this sighting. As > I've said, we also saw birds, planes, and balloons. All were > unmistakable. Birds have wings, and flap them. Planes have wings, > tail, and rudder, often vapor trails, and move steadily in a straight > line. The balloons I saw were colorful, one red, the other yellow. > They float, moving more or less steadily, but with small changes in > speed and direction. Birds have their own gait (so to speak) in the > air. This object, whatever it was, didn't look or behave like a > plane, bird, or balloon. Or at least not an ordinary party balloon. I > suppose it could have been a very high weather balloon, but the shape > didn't seem right (of course I'm not an expert on weather balloon > shapes), and a weather balloon, I'd think, wouldn't simply disappear. > Could it have been a helicopter? Maybe, though the shape didn't seem > right for that - helicopters, seen from the side, would be more like > a triangle, I'd think, tapering off at one end (this was more > rectangular) - and aren't usually so shiny. I've rarely seen one h > over at high altitude, for whatever that's worth, though I have seen > them hovering fairly low over NY city. > I can only say that this thing, whatever it was, was not like > anything I've ever seen before. It's the first thing I've ever seen > in the sky that I couldn't readily identify. > > Sorry if I've gone into exhausting detail. Since I'm corroborating > some very provocative sightings of John's, I thought it was better to > say too much than too little. No need to apologize Greg, these things have a habit of effecting in this manner. <BEG> > John took photographs of whatever it was, and gave me the film. After > I've developed it, I'll scan a shot, and upload it here. Great, I will for one look forward to it. Now, if you begin to see lil gray critters, then I will become really worried. <grin> I don't intend offence by the above in truth. As is John, I too AM an experiencer. For probably 43 or so years I suspect out of 54. However, even though I have some physical evidence of this (body marks and scoop), that is not enough to convince me that these experiences constituted physical occurrences. In fact, I have considerable circumstantial evidence to point to some other type of occurrence all together. In closing, I have long found it curious that in many UFO sightings over the years especially many of recent years, seeming paranormal circumstances are in attendance with these sightings. We observe on tape objects of light separating into two or more similar sized lights while in other cases two or more merge into one. In other incidences, an oval or round shaped assumed object may morph into an extreme oblong shape or even a shape resembling a bar with a globe at each end. In the abduction arena, nearly every case is rife with paranormal occurrences. Aliens walking through walls, people rising through the air outside or through a ceiling to merge into a bright, blinding light. In my case of course, I was pulled through a pair of locked steel van doors and carried into a blinding, bright light. What does this all mean? My research leads me to far different conjecture than does that of a 'nuts and bolts' adherent of ufology for instance, who also entertains the possibility of Alien visitation and abduction. The reason for that is that I AM not uncomfortable with these occurrences which all too often are conveniently swept beneath the rug in hopes it will all go away. I feel to the core of my being that it is within these paranormal occurrences that many of the important clues as to what these phenomena represent can be found. If more research were being done from at least a partial foundation in metaphysical tenets, then we still wouldn't be witnessing after more than 50 years the same chin music even though presented with yet a new twist. I AM sure that there are those who would be detractors due to an unfamiliarity with even a basic relationship with various of the simpler nuances contained within the wide scope known as Metaphysics. To the Duke of Mendoza I would like to remind if not inform that Metaphysics is not synominous with the occult although it can be occult. ;-) Given the above, I perhaps run the risk of being regarded as a nut, although I honestly do not predicate my well being upon less than well informed opinions, if then. <grin> There exist energies and circumstances all around us that science is at yet unequipped to measure. Perhaps in most of these it will never be except in a circumstantial way. That is, by measurement of the effects upon known or observable components of reality. Reality is in itself an interesting subject. To those who possess an expansion in awareness, many realize it is all of us collectively who create literally, this reality. I suggest that those who are unwilling to even entertain these circumstances are ultimately unwilling to take responsibility for themselves and that which they create. One small proof of this is that I finally realized that I was making it possible for these beings who are real yet not physical in a full third dimensional reality way to intrude into my life unwanted. I further realized that I had adopted a belief system with perhaps their first appearance that they were omnipotent. It was partially through these realizations that I/We (Julie and I) were able to bring a halt to the year long series of annoyance by these beings that we had endured. By way of explanation, they did not want us to leave California permanently in 1996 and they wished to interfere with our compliance of course, in our future endeavors or pathway. This then brings us to the nexus. This is what these beings are about. Their aim is in great part an interference in the path of those they choose to encounter. Each of these are similar to the description as covered when I was laying my conjecture as to certain attributes that may be ascribed to a great many perhaps including John Velez. :-) My experiences and research have indicated to me that these 'beings' encountered do not come from across the galaxy, but rather have been here all along. They are astral rather than physical. A casual study of any of various metaphysical sources will provide an abundance of description and definition of the term. In closing, I have addressed you as I have watched some of your give and take over many months and a respect for the way in which you present your views has grown within me. Kindest Regards... Clarke Hathaway
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: 'Rods'? - In Answer to all From: rjke@webtv.net (Jose and Karen Escamilla) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:21:26 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 04:30:46 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? - In Answer to all In reply to: Bob, Mark, Roger, Burt, Jim and others... Without getting into any heated arguements, I really want to focus on the Rods phenomena, and I will put all insulting and demeaning words aside in this message. With the exception of Roger, who is making a direct accuasation that I'm hoaxing all this for money..... I won't even begin to go there. On the more positive side of the coin, I feel that all of the technical knowledge being tossed about in an effort to either prove or dis-prove that Rods are real or simply insects, I applaud everyone's input and speculation as to the mistakes we're making in our research. First of all, I have been wanting to get more of a scientific method in documenting the Rods with the best optical equipment that is available, but we have not been able to get a budget for the types of cameras we need in order to document these objects until now. I am here in New Mexico getting the expedition funded, so in the very near future we will be presenting the type of evidence that needs to be gathered in order to put this matter to rest. I can only imagine how tough it is for most of you out there to have proof of something that is not of the norm present itself as a "real deal" type of thing that rocks your logical mind into turmoil. What I want to do is just that. Rock your boats into total chaos and turmoil, showing you that there is more to it than simple logic taught by the old school frame of mind, which most of you adhere to since you don't have the capacity to see beyond the standard text book explanations...or logic. I'll admit that I don't know it all. Most of you seem to have the ability to know everything about anything, you come to a conclusion that suits your state of mind, and that's it! It's explained! You're safe in your little corner without having to deal with the reality of what is right there in front of you. Well I'm here to bring you out of that corner. For those of you that don't know my background, I am not a novice or amateur where it comes to video or 35mm filmmaking. I have over 15 years experience as a film and video editor, and I do know about cameras, shutter speeds, etc. I know of what I speak when I say, this is an insect, a bird or other anomoly created by cameras or video artifacts. As a film and video editor you "look for" things or artifacts that take away from the scene. This is my profession. Before I released any of this information to the public, I knew there would be those of you, (now in this chat), who would come forward with technical jargon, offering explanations how I am mistaken of what I am presenting. In answer to the coldest regions, I have footage of a Rod taken over Santa Fe, during a cold snowy day. The Rod flies over the Plaza in downtown Santa Fe. I will admit, I'm not an Entomologist and I don't know what insects abound during colder temperatures, but the Rod flies past and holds it's shape throughout the flight path which lasts five frames. It was shot t 1/10,000 shutteretting. Until that tape came forth we thought Rods only existed in warmer desert like areas. I am looking for footage in the coldest regions, believe me, this would put the insects theories "way out the window" and I know this will eventually come forth. Somewhere out there, is a shot. You can joke about sending me to Alaska, but I know sometime this footage will emerge. In answer to "shooting into the sun" I did the same experiments after seeing Tim Edward's and John Bro's and other's UFO footage using this technique. I shot at all the shutter settings and said, bug, bird, fly, etc., as I captured things using this technique. The reason I did this is to show how the wrong shutter settings can create weird looking UFOS. We did shoot into the sun in 1994, but have not released this footage because we didn't want to try and prove how this technique is efficiant. We already had our hands full with the "hoaxing" accusations and didn't need a technical "bomb" dropped on us about "backlit" anomalies produced while using this technique. I showed my results to Tim Edwards cautioning him to make sure he used the highest settings so that he would be certain of what he was claiming was either real or simply debris, insects, etc. He was taken by this and feels I'm trying to debunk him, which I was not. I'm the type of guy that covers his "six" prior to exposing it. We don't shoot into the sun to get Rods. We always have the sun behind us so that it can be ruled out, that "backlighting" from the sun creates these images from common insects. Mark mentions that the shadow across the torso of the cave rod "could be" duplicated with a time exposure, and he gives an example about a ball using this technque; but the cave rod was shot in real time video as the base jumper took his dive. This was a one shot deal. Not allowing for any time lapse photography as Mark so carelessly suggests. Nice try, but Mark be more realistic in your insights. Bruce Maccabee, Dr. Jack Kasher and Jim Dilettoso have seen the cave footage and I finally got topographical maps, latitude/longitude information on the cave, which will be forwarded to Bruce, Jack and Jim, so that thy can use this data in finding out how big, fast and far away this thing was from the base jumper and the camera. Bruce says that once he gathers this information & data about the time of day and time that this event was taped, he will be able to determine the probable size and speed of this Rod object from the cave. This will certainly rule the insect theory. Another cave clip that you need to review is from the BJ Worth stunt jump which took place in 1990. In the stills from the video you can see the Rod at lower right screen emerging from the shadows, passing under a branch and into sunlight! If this were an insect close to the camera, how did it emerge from behind the tree branch some distance away? Also the sun is shining "down" on the Rod with the contrast from the darkness of the cave showng the Rod's length and appendages clearly. As far as I'm concerned about what we now about the Rods to date. We don't know what they are. We are planning to shoot with stereo camera set ups and measurements at the sites where we know there is constant Rod activity. We are also getting the newest camera made by Kodak which is a motion analyzer used for measuring ballon deployment and ballistics captured on video. It has a high shutter speed capacity of 40,500 fps, and Kodak is advertising it as an absolute scientific measuring video camera for freezing bullets in time. With this camera, we will be able to capture any high velocity object and determine, (very quickly), what it is or isn't. Mark and others feel that we're not being scientific enough to warrant ourselves as serious investigators. If science is based on closed minded opinions before the fact, then I suggest the annals of scientific investigation be re-written. Unless you are out in the field with us, documenting and adding your knowledge to this investigation, then I doubt that anyone should take your commentary as a serious scientific analysis of the Rods phenomena. This is why I'm putting together the Rods Expedition: see( http://www.roswellrods.com/expg.html ) I invite all of you "technicals" - home spun scientists, naysayers, and the professionals to come and document and to gather data about the sites themselves, (in case mother earth is creating these effects by natural Geological, Meteorological anomlies). Then and only then can we get to a sound and decisive analysis of what the Rods are or are not! Don't knock our work until you come along and study this with us. It would not be a waste of time on your part; who knows, maybe after we do it technically, scientifically and politically correct, we find out that all we've been filming are indeed insects? Only that they're insects that are extremely large and that have the capabilities of traveling at extremely high velocities! Or maybe they're not any of the above and simply a natural phenomenon created by nature. Either way, we can collectively put our minds together to find out what it is...or isn't. We're getting ready to do the Rods expedition. I'm working out the funding here in New Mexico. We can post and put each other down over this BBS until the Rods go away. The simple facts are that; I would rather have these arguements out in the field during the course of the serious investigation. I am just as determined to prove you wrong, as you are out to prove me wrong. Let's get to the nitty gritty and cut out all the useless banter, and get to the bottom of this. I invite you to join us on the Rods Expedition. Mark and Bob Guys, I know you exhibit great minds with your knowledge about photography, etc. with all this technical jargon/analysis on the web; but Bob, when you continue to say things like, "I'm going to look over my videos shot during "hot buggy days" it seems to me that you are callous in the way you present yourself as a true professional with the credentials you claim to have. I am kind of suspicious as to why you would continue to say such things, when you asked me to put the gloves down and be more open to what we should discuss pertaining to the Rods in a professional manner. It seems that you tell me one thing, then try and defame our work, by saying such mindless banter while my back was turned. I kind of feel like you are not a trustworthy person when it comes to serious study. Should I really send you the footage? You keep doing this 360 that puts your credability in my "grey basket." Are you a serious researcher or do you use these forums as a joke? I have nothing to hide, what really is your agenda here in this forum? You come off as an intellectual and then say something lame like that? Are you for real? I would guess by your behavior that you lack discipline in your field of science...if that's what it is...! Mark; join us on the expedition if you really want to exercise your intellectual knowledge while applying it out in the field.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: Dolphin Hotel From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 05:34:15 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 04:27:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Dolphin Hotel Hi all, I have been away for three days and came home to 160 messages, most of them produced by you. Which is fine, but I had to skip some threads. I remember a brief debate going on here about the Dolphin Hotel in Florida. It had to do with a meeting involding the AA cameraman. By pure coincidence (???) I went on a press trip to Florida from Sunday to Wednesday and, yes, I went to the Dolphin Hotel. We stayed at another hotel nearby but all the conference activities were at the Dolphin. In this brief debate - and I remember Bob Shell was involved - it was said that one person did not show up for a meeting. Well, having been there, I am not so sure. This hotel is BIG! There are at least six entrances, there are a lot of coffee bars, small restaurants, meeting points and pavillions and I have only seen the first two floors. The hotel has at least ten floors. Furthermore, there are other buildings on the premises, including adjacent hotels. People who set up a meeting in the Dolphin could easily miscommunicate about the exact meeting point. The full name is Disney World Dolphin. One of the staffers said it is owned by the Sheraton hotel chain and it should be in the Orlando telephone directory. By talking to people I learned that it is quite a well know hotel in that area. It is close to Orlando, Disney World and the Epcot Center. The closest highway is 4. __________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Technology Pages http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp \______________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Stealth Crash Pilot: "What did I hit?" From: Kenny Young <task@fuse.net> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:30:08 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 04:43:04 -0400 Subject: Stealth Crash Pilot: "What did I hit?" Comment: During the Monday morning interview by Katie Couric on the NBC TODAY SHOW, I was naturally curious when I first heard Ms. Diane Stumpf (first person to reach the pilot of the crashed STEALTH PLANE) who quoted the pilot stating 'what did I hit?' Although Stumpf mentions that the pilot asked "what the plane hit upon crashing" (meaning the house), the context in which she gave the account that caught my ear was referring to the impression of the pilot that his plane had 'struck' something in the air. The transcript of the interview confirmed my earlier suspicion. In my review of the NTSB accident database, I have found many accidents that were caused by a structural defect in the plane, causing it to 'fly apart' in mid-air. This happening to the Stealth is obviously something new, though. Maybe the structural defect which forced a big part of the plane to fly loose could have caused the pilot to receive the impression that he hit something in the air during the moment of breakage...? Does anyone have data on this (structural breakup) that would assist? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Transcript of interview of Ms. Diane Stumpf by Katie Couric on the NBC "TODAY" television/news program, Monday, September 15, 1997 _____________________ On CLOSE UP this morning, the crash of that stealth fighter. When an F-117 crashed Sunday afternoon into a Maryland neighborhood, the pilot ejected. Joining us now is Diane Stumpf. She was having a birthday party for her husband at the time. KATIE COURIC: Diane, good morning. Ms. DIANE STUMPF (Eyewitness to Stealth Fighter Crash): Good morning. COURIC: Set the scene for us, if you could, before the stealth fighter crashed. Ms. STUMPF: We were sitting down at our shore home, and I had watched the plane make a pass and turn off. And I sort of watching it because it was an unusual plane. I turned around to watch it come back for another pass, and I saw it, like, spinning. And I got up and ran over to the water, and yelled to the family, you know, that it was going to crash. And I saw that it was going to crash like right in front of our shore home. So I ran around the front of the building. And just as I got around the front of the building, I had hear=97seen the plane come down and crash like a pancake. A few seconds later the pilot had come down with a large, hard thump. He came down rather fast. And I ran over to him, he was about 50 to 70 feet from the plane. It was all on fire. The house had started to catch on fire. COURIC: So it crashed in what, the house next to yours? Ms. STUMPF: One shore up from ours. COURIC: So when you approached the pilot, tell me what happened? He was unconscious, is that right? Ms. STUMPF: Well, he was laying on his side. I don=92t know whether he was really unconscious or just had the wind knocked out of him. I went over to him and rolled him over. And I=97I was trying to get his helmet or air-breathing apparatus off his face, and he reached up and grabbed my hand and started to come to. And he took his helmet off, and his first concern was, what he had hit, if there were any people hurt. And I told him I thought that the house was empty, that there was no one in the house. Then... COURIC: But you weren=92t able to completely reassure him that... Ms. STUMPF: No. COURIC: ...no one had been seriously hurt from this, were you? Ms. STUMPF: No, I wasn=92t able to really reassure him. He was very concerned about the people on the ground. That was his first concern. COURIC: Did he=97did he explain to you why the plane crashed or what happened up there? Ms. STUMPF: Well, he made=97he=97he did make the remark that he was surprised that he had been alive, that he lived through it. He said he tried=97he asked me, like, what he had hit. He said =91Did you see what we=97what I had hit?=92 And, you know, at first I didn=92t put it together. But, apparently, maybe when the plane fell apart, something came back and it seemed like it hit him. At first he thought he had hit something. And his concern was to stay with the plane until he could get it over the water so that it would be safe and not hit anybody. COURIC: And he really wanted to stay in control of the plane and not eject, correct? Is that what he told you? Ms. STUMPF: Yes. Yes, he did. He stayed in it until the last minute. He tried to hold it together he said. COURIC: Then the military, I guess, came by and they used your house as a command center, is that right? Ms. STUMPF: Yes, they did. They came in and they=97we had taken=97my sister-in-law and I had gotten the pilot up, because he was only about 50 to 70 feet from the burning plane. We were concerned that it may blow up, so we had gotten him up and took him over and sat him on a chair. And he was watching the plane burn. He was still very much concerned if there was anybody around. And he was very concerned because he had upset the children at the=97my two nephews at the party very much with the crash. Because it=92s not something that, you know=97it was very unusual. COURIC: I=92ll say. I mean, how=97how are you feeling now? I mean, quite a bizarre day for you, a bizarre afternoon. You were just having a little party for your husband and I guess your mother-in-law as well, right? Ms. STUMPF: Yes. Yes. COURIC: Are you... Ms. STUMPF: I mean, it was very=97it was just bizarre, like you said. It was something that you would think couldn=92t happen, but it did. The true miracle in the whole thing is that no one was hurt or injured seriously. COURIC: It really is a miracle. Diane Stumpf, thank you so much for talking with us this morning. Ms. STUMPF: Sure. COURIC: We appreciate it. Ms. STUMPF: OK. COURIC: It=92s 7:11. Now, here=92s Matt. ____________________________________________________________________ Kenny Young, T.A.S.K. task@fuse.net -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ___________ ________ ________ ____ ___ * * /__ ____/ / __ ) ( ____/ / // / * * / / / /__| | \ \ / < * * / / / ____ | ___\ \ / /\ \ * * /___/ /___/ |___| /_______) /___/ \___\ * * * * http://home.fuse.net/task/ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "Investigation without predisposition." T.A.S.K. - Tri-State Advocates for Scientific Knowledge
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: 1956 Mid-Air Incident with AF Plane From: Kenny Young <task@fuse.net> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:37:30 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 04:45:25 -0400 Subject: Re: 1956 Mid-Air Incident with AF Plane AIR FORCE PLANE DOWNED BY UNIDENTIFIED OBJECT Headline above quoted directly from July 23/24, 1956 Rocky Mountain News, Denver Colorado The July 24, 1956 San Francisco Chronicle states as follows: A Hamilton AFB transport plane survived a 9,000 ft. vertical dive and landed safely with three-fourths of its tail elevator missing. The pilot, co-pilot and crew of two all blacked out following a mysterious mid-air incident that no one was able to explain. Major Merwin Stenvers, the pilot, said the C-131D, was cruising at 16,000 ft. over Pixley. 'Suddenly, there was a loud bang, a severe vibration and we went into a dive,' he said. Major Stenvers had the plane under manual control at the time. While he and his co-pilot battled to bring it out of the spin, the two crewmen were scrambling to regain their feet in the cabin. Finally, Stenvers was unable to explain what happened. He said he saw no other planes about him. He thought a faulty port engine had caused trouble and feathered the propeller before landing at Kern County Airport at 11:30 a.m. Only when he inspected the plane on the ground did he notice the badly damaged tail section. About 36-square feet of the left elevator was missing. The remaining portion was hanging shredded and torn. There also was a dent about ten inches in diameter under the left stabilizer. The two crewmen suffered minor cuts when they were thrown about the cabin. Major Stenvers and Capt. Marble were questioned by officials from Edwards AFB. All men were or are part of the 2317th Air Transport Squadron at Hamilton AFB. According to one UP report: One official said it looked like 'something had struck it from above but we don't know.' Another UP report said: The Air Force ordered tight security measures into effect and stationed guards around the plane at the airport. An AP report said that the sheriff's office investigated a report that another plane had crashed nearby but found no evidence. NOTE: The July 24 edition of the San Francisco CHRONICLE stated that Air Force investigators discovered that a jammed control device threw the ill-fated plane into a steep dive causing the damage. Said the Chronicle: "Earlier theories had the plane under attack from above by everything from a meteor to a flying saucer... This account was published in the August 3, 1956 C.R.I.F.O. ORBIT NEWSLETTER Vol. III - No. 5, published by LEONARD STRINGFIELD -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ___________ ________ ________ ____ ___ * * /__ ____/ / __ ) ( ____/ / // / * * / / / /__| | \ \ / < * * / / / ____ | ___\ \ / /\ \ * * /___/ /___/ |___| /_______) /___/ \___\ * * * * http://home.fuse.net/task/ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "Investigation without predisposition." T.A.S.K. - Tri-State Advocates for Scientific Knowledge
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: UFO sighting with John Velez From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 06:24:20 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:45:35 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez >From: meccam@erols.com >Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:43:31 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez >> From: rfsignal@sprynet.com [Cathy Johnson] >> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 04:18:44 -0700 >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> Dear John, >> I hate to say this, but I told you so. I did tell you that >> there was a lot going on above the busy city lights. How many people >> think to look up on such a nice bright day to catch a glimpse of >> something? Are all those people around you such cattle with their >> heads so deep in the grass? Probably. >> There are a number of large population urban areas that are >> literally spaceports of activity. Now we know that cities like, New >> York, Toronto, Chichago, and etc. are actually very busy places in >> more ways than one. >> The abductions continue. >> Take care for now, >> Cathy Johnson >> PS: Do you know where your children have been, really? >What about ET-forsaken Washington D.C., I want to know!!!!! don't you >think it's time they flew over the White House again? Been since 1952, >after all. >Melanie Actually, I believe there have been a few sightings since the 1952 flap, but nothing quite as exciting. Anyone who is interested in more information on that particular flap can go to th FUFOR Web site (www.fufor.org) and go to the publications area. They have a new publication on the 1952 sightings, and I think many will find it interesting. There are also a number of individuals in the Washington, DC area that would rather the UFOs stayed away, since they are now having to deal with the result of their "abduction" experience. Search for other documents from or mentioning: steve | meccam |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 06:12:15 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:44:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze >From: nick@emailme.at.address.below (Nick Humphries) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze >Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:29:08 GMT >>Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:42:24 +1200 >>From: Murray Bott <murrayb@kiwi.gen.nz> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Paper on Gulf Breeze >>Greetings Barbara >>Could I ask you a big favour. >>Would it be possible to send me a copy of the Paper on the Gulf Breeze Case >>which you mention was given to Walt Andrus (and others) >>Certainly an electronic version will be welcome (as a hard copy would also) >If the paper isn't going to be published in a journal, perhaps it could be >posted here? I would add that if you only have a "hard copy" of the document, I would be willing to scan it and prepare it for posting (as long as it's typed, and not hand written). The discussion is starting to discuss the personalities, since we don't have the article to use as a basis to discuss the sighting. We can let it move in that direction, but it won't prove much in the long run. Since the article was submitted to the MUFON Journal, I would suspect that the Editor, Dennis Stacy, got a chance to read it. I'm curious as to his comments on it, if he would care to share them. Dennis?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: Dolphin Hotel From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 06:37:25 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:46:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Dolphin Hotel >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 05:34:15 +0200 (MET DST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: Dolphin Hotel >Hi all, [text deleted] >In this brief debate - and I remember Bob Shell was involved - it was >said that one person did not show up for a meeting. Well, having >been there, I am not so sure. This hotel is BIG! There are at least >six entrances, there are a lot of coffee bars, small restaurants, >meeting points and pavillions and I have only seen the first >two floors. The hotel has at least ten floors. Furthermore, there are >other buildings on the premises, including adjacent hotels. >People who set up a meeting in the Dolphin could easily >miscommunicate about the exact meeting point. Someone can dig into the archives and drag out the specifics, but according to Ray, the AA Cameraman was to meet with a Representative of a production company (Polygram, I believe) to help secure their backing. Unfortunately, he became ill and was in the hospital when this person checked into the hotel. When this person tried to call the "cameraman", he spoke with his wife and learned that he wasn't available. In the end, the financial deal fell through and Ray had to go to other sources (allegedly Volker Spielberg) to obtain the money needed to secure the "film". The production company Representative, meanwhile, was later hired by Merlin (Ray Santilli) and has given out no further details regarding the meetings date or location. At least that's my early Thursday morning recollection of the event. Of course, this is all part of the "legend" that has built up around the "Alien Autopsy" video, and is supported only by annecdotal evidence from sources that many find disreputable.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:57:47 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:52:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze At 12:46 AM 9/18/97 -0400, you wrote: >From: nick@emailme.at.address.below (Nick Humphries) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MUFON Journal Muses >Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:29:04 GMT [I said, to provide some context:] >> The bottom line is that if Barbara really had any proof we would >> have heard about it by now, in the course of 8 years. You might >> want to try and replace your rabidly opinionated "gut feelings" >> with a more proper foundation for your claims. [Nick then said:] >Ignoring the flame... The statement that if there was "really >had any proof we would have heard about it by now, in the >course of 8 years" on Gulf Breeze or ANY case is an ill-founded >one. >This is silly - if scientists worked this way, many would give >up before accomplishing any major discovery. You're completely misreading, as usual. My comment relates only to Ms. Becker having any alleged "proof" (hence my "if Barbara really had any proof"), not to any other negative evidence that in principle could still turn up. You've succeeded in debunking something I didn't write, essentially. Congratulations. >It is also illogical - Jean's argument is that no case could be >solved because, if any solution was possible, it would have >been found already. I didn't assert this, read my comment again. This time with your eyes open please. >Finally, suggesting that if a case hasn't been solved after a >small period of time, then it is unsolvable stifles any debate >and stunts any possible further growth in the subject. I neither claimed this too, but it's worth a comment. "Solved" is in the eyes of the beholder; Bruce Maccabee, for instance, would consider "solved" the issue re Ed allegedly hoaxing the famous shots he's known for, in Walters' favor. He too would see "solved" the issue of existence/non-existence of strange objects occupying Gulf Breeze airspace. While to other people it's quite conceivable that damning evidence could still be forthcomming, so they don't share Maccabee's opinion, even if there's _no_ evidence such proof would eventually pop up. I personally find the latter quite unreasonable. It's like saying "let's not use our knowledge, which _seems_ reliable enough, to draw any conclusions, because evidence _could_ turn up overnight which _might_ negate that same knowledge in the future." What if it never turns up? You'd be waiting and waiting... But I think you get the point. __________________________________________________________________________ Science, Logic, and the UFO Debate: http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/index.html -----------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: 'Rods'? - In Answer to all From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:05:01 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:05:01 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? - In Answer to all >From: rjke@webtv.net (Jose and Karen Escamilla) >Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:21:26 -0600 >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: 'Rods'? - In Answer to all >I know you exhibit great minds with your knowledge about photography, >etc. with all this technical jargon/analysis on the web; but Bob, when >you continue to say things like, "I'm going to look over my videos shot >during "hot buggy days" it seems to me that you are callous in the way >you present yourself as a true professional with the credentials you >claim to have. I am kind of suspicious as to why you would continue to >say such things, when you asked me to put the gloves down and be more >open to what we should discuss pertaining to the Rods in a professional >manner. >It seems that you tell me one thing, then try and defame our work, by >saying such mindless banter while my back was turned. >I kind of feel like you are not a trustworthy person when it comes to >serious study. Should I really send you the footage? You keep doing this >360 that puts your credability in my "grey basket." >Are you a serious researcher or do you use these forums as a joke?>> >I have nothing to hide, what really is your agenda here in this forum? >You come off as an intellectual and then say something lame like that? >Are you for real? I would guess by your behavior that you lack >discipline in your field of science...if that's what it is...! Jose, I have not done any 360, and posting to a public forum is hardly going behind your back. I do think that you are filming insects. I have said that from the beginning. However, I am not one of those closed minded people who refuses to look at evidence, and I have no vested interest in this one way or the other. If you have something that will convince me that these are not insects, then fine. Let me see it. Regulars on this forum will tell you that I am very capable of making mistakes, and that when I do I am very open about admitting them, and correcting the data. My original training was in zoology, entomology to be specific, and I was at the Smithsonian in the Department of Invertebrate Zoology, Division of Insects (now upgraded to Department of Entomology) from the mid-60s until the early 70s. So bugs is something I know a lot about. Photography was always my secondary interest, and became my primary interest, and business, in 1973. I've done professional still photography, 16 mm filming professionally, and a little professional videography. I have not used any really technical jargon in my statements here and have always reduced things to the simplest possible form. Photography is, at base, not very complicated, and the formulas used in it are usually pretty basic stuff. They have to be, since I'm a complete loser when it comes to math. So, if you want me to look at your evidence and express an opinion, I will be happy to do so. If you don't want me to look at your evidence for whatever reason, that is your right. I had no interest in the rods until someone here asked my opinion, and I could just as easily drift back to having no interest once again. >Are you a serious researcher or do you use these forums as a joke?>> Both. I see the humor in all aspects of life. I look upon the universe as a very loony place, and think the creator has a fantastic sense of humor revealed every day to those of us who look. I have no interest in being serious all the time, nor am I interested in dealing with people who have no sense of humor. If you can't take the humor of an occasional jibe like this, then you should not come here. Best wishes, Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: 1909 Delaware/New Location for Airships From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 07:57:45 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:06:42 -0400 Subject: Re: 1909 Delaware/New Location for Airships > Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:49:24 -0400 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: frizzell@umbc.edu (mike frizzell) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 1909 Delaware/New Location for Airships > >Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:53:29 -0700 > >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 1909 Delaware/New Location for Airships > >> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:30:26 +0100 > >> From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > >> To: updates@globalserve.net > >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 1909 Delaware/New Location for Airships > >> > Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:01:48 -0700 > >> > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > >> > To: updates@globalserve.net > >> > ===================================================================== > >> > Wilminton, Delaware MORNING NEWS, 2 August 1909 > >> > SEE AIRSHIPS AT NIGHT > >> > People of Middletown Tell Tales of Ghostly Dirigible with > >> > Lights > >> > MIDDLETOWN, August 1.--A mysterious airship which flies > >> > only at night is causing considerable excitement and keeping > >> > the people of Orange county residing between Goshen and Newburg > >> > up nights in their efforts to get a look at it. For the past > >> > month persons who have been out late at night have reported > >> > seeing an airship, but few believed the stories. > Hi all: > It seems likely that the above article, reportedly published in the > Delaware Morning News, was actually referring to aerial sightings made in > New York state. The regions of Middletown, Goshen, Newburg, and Orange > County are all in close proximity to each other in central New York near > the Catskill Mountains. > Mike Frizzell Greetings Mike, That does indeed appear to be correct. Only New York has those all those counties. This is a good research item for the upstate New York newspapers next time I am in Albany. It is still a new location for the Airship in 1909. -- Jan Aldrich Project 1947 http://www.iufog.org/project1947/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze [was: MUFON Journal Muses] From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:50:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:13:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze [was: MUFON Journal Muses] > From: RGates8254@aol.com > Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:37:52 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MUFON Journal Muses > In a message dated 97-09-16 02:39:40 EDT, you write: > > Mr. Stacy: > > How many words would you like for the article proving Ed Walters > > hoaxed his photos? > > Barbara > Opinion pieces go on OPed pages or letters to the editor. > cheers, > Robert Sorry, but this has nothing to do with opinion. BB
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:39:59 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:10:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze > From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> > To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Paper on Gulf Breeze > Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:50:14 -0400 > > From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:12:14 -0500 > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Paper on Gulf Breeze. > > This is a simple request. I have been censored. That means that YOU > > don't have what you need to make up your own minds using all the > > info available. You were given just so much and no more, just like the > > censorship of the regular media. I am asking that people with web > > sites, from any country, contact me personally and allow me to send you > > the paper and if you think what I have presented is reasonable, thought > > out and well presented, then put it on your site so it can be read by > > all. > Why not post your paper on Gulf Breeze here? We've had many lengthy > documents. Do it! > Greg Sandow I'd be happy to but I thought this site was more for discussion. Its up to Errol. BB [Posts generate discussion - by all means feel free - ebk]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Your Posts Aren't Making it to the List? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:41:26 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:41:26 -0400 Subject: Your Posts Aren't Making it to the List? Despite private e-mail and the regular inclusion of the 'Posting Instructions' on this List, some mail to this address still does not meet the simple formating requirements and doesn't get posted. "Errol is being a controlling jerk" is not the answer. The reasons for the specific formating are laid out in the 'Posting Instructions' - 'if you don't read the manual the damn-thing won't work for you'! If, in a fit of 'housekeeping' you've 'filed' that 'Manual' - it's available, Archived, at the URL below. On occasion, I'll clean up in-coming messages. On occasion. Recently, there have been quite a number of offending messages and to be frank, I simply don't have the time to return them or tidy them up. So, if your messages are not making it to the List you have 'transgressed an written-law', committed a 'Newbie wants to see their name on the List', sent a personal-attack/flame, or just got me in the midst of a 'carmudgeon episode'. <VBG> If you're feeling unduly persecuted: a) talk to your therapist - again b) blame 'them' c) consider the EMP effect d) call up the message that didn't make it and compare its formating to the messages from UpDates that you've kept, or e) send me an E-mail enquiring about the health of your mail/server. Remember, if AOL subscribers can make _their_ mail-readers conform then formatting ain't no Rocket Science. Errol Bruce-Knapp - Moderator UFO UpDates - Toronto
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 18 Cancelation of all military training missions by From: CFQ2@aol.com [Charles F. Quinn] Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:27:04 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 12:05:31 -0400 Subject: Cancelation of all military training missions by Dear Errol; This story won't go away. Allegedly two(2) military craft "collide" over the South Atlantic off the coast of Angola--- in broad daylight. Two (2) more craft "collide" 30 miles off the coast of Atlantic City. Pentagon curtails all future military training flights. Come on, Errol. You cannot avoid this story no matter how chilling the prospects. CFQ2@aol.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: Conference on Unexplained Phenomena From: "Rick Savard" <tcdone@inland.net> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:19:06 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 01:09:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Conference on Unexplained Phenomena > Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:18:36 -0400 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: frizzell@umbc.edu (mike frizzell) > Subject: Conference on Unexplained Phenomena > The 24th Annual Conference on Anomalous Phenomena > The International Fortean Organization (INFO) > presents > FORTFEST '97 > Ambassador Ballroom, Ramada Inn of Bethesda, Maryland > November 8th & 9th, 1997 > For more details please see the INFO Homepage at: > http://www.research.umbc.edu/~frizzell/info I am unfamiliar with this conference or the organizations sponsoring it, but our research group the NPAA (Near Pathfinder Anomaly Analysis Group) has been working diligently and as objectively as possible analyzing images returned from the Pathfinder mission. We have discovered many unexplanable (in traditional geological terms) objects littering the landing site. We were recently invited by Richard Hoagland to participate in his Enterprise Mission, Pasadena Conference on September 11. Our data was well received (no surprise there) and we are looking for additional venues to get our 'data out there'. Please have a look at our website that showcases some of our findings. http://www.mufor.org/ares If it is appropriate, arrangements could be made to present our latest data at your conference. -- STAY CONNECTED, Rick Savard NPAA Group http://www.mufor.org/ares/ tcdone@inland.net ----------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Server Problems Here From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 01:07:56 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 01:07:56 -0400 Subject: Server Problems Here A couple of hours of mail-server problems Thursday P.M. caused some subscribers to have their messages bounce back at them. Things seem to have returned to normal now. Apologies to those who were affected. ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:55:58 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 01:13:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:00:19 -0700 > From: Loy Pressley <lpressle@webwide.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > > > > > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 06:42:25 -0700 > > > > > From: Loy Pressley <lpressle@webwide.net> > > > > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > > > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > > I think it's a little more complex than that. Science is a highly > > interlocking > > edifice of interdependent ideas and their proofs. Each piece of the > > edifice depends on many others. As the number of dependent components > > increase, the "depended-on" component is established more solidly as > > truth. > By the same token, if any of those interdependent ideas is > disproved, anything that follows after it and depends on it > can, but necessarily have to, come tumbling down like a > house of cards. Yes, but as the concept becomes more well-tested, the requirements for excellence and repeatability of any disconfirming experiment get higher and higher. For instance, an experiment to prove that the speed of light is not constant faces a pretty tough road, had better work every time for everyone who tries it, and had better have no methodlogical flaws. > I think what you say is true for living systems as we know > them...it may not be true if there are living systems > unknown to us at our current level of investigation. For > a race like us in this early stage of our development > living on a very small planet circling a run-of-the-mill > star in a remote corner of a very common spiral galaxy to > say that life the way we know it is the only type of life > that can exist in the whole huge universe is somewhat > pompous of us, in my opinion. It is tantamount to the move > at the turn of the century to close the U S patent office > because all the inventions that there were ever going to be, > had been invented. I think I need more detail as to what types of living systems you might have in mind before I can comment. I've earlier made the point that discovery of an unusual type of living system could be guaranteed to develop significant interest. However, I can't, offhand, think of any a priori reasons to expect there to be major variations from "life as we know it" (though as a fiction writer, I have no problem with space animals, etc). > > Chemistry is key to understanding the constraints on ET life, and > > systems of life which might be "not as we know it". The chemicals > > used in terrestrial life are known to be common throughout the > > cosmos. They have specific properties which make them good > > chemicals for creating and evolving life. Other chemicals are > > unlikely to be as directly useful. because their properties don't > > serve the requirements of life, or because they are uncommon. > Because that maybe they are not common here. Maybe they are > common in other places and we just don't know that yet. There is what's called the "cosmic abundance" of elements. This is based on existing measurements of the interstellar medium, spectral analyses of stars and galaxies, etc. Many astronomy resources can provide charts of this basic level of abundance. Yes, there are variations. For instance, metals are more abundant in older areas of the galaxies and in older galaxies, because metals are only generated as late products of nuclear fusion in stellar cores. I would certainly expect there to be variations between the biochemistry of life evolved on various worlds - in general. Though I would also expect a basic consistency. I certainly would expect a greater percentage of metals involved in the biochemistry of life from a world in a globular cluster, for instance. But I would not expect them to be largely composed of, say, gold polymers (if there could even be such a thing). I once used in a novel a form of life which evolved on a world with much more active chemistries than our own (i.e. higher percentages of highly reactive chemicals), and I hypothesised that such a form of life would use some kind of reaction suppressors to slow reactions down to a speed compatible with life, rather than using enzymes, as we do, to speed up reactions. That, I suppose, is more the kind of difference I really expect to see. > > The likelier explanation is errors in the measurement system. At this > > point, there is no credible evidence in astronomy or physics that basic > > properties of the universe differ from one place to another. Theories > > of light speed variation, "tired light" local gravitational constant > > variations, etc, have all been proposed to account for various > > observations, but none have yet stood to the test. > Most likely, you are correct. However, based on the > discussion above concerning the interdependency of > scientific principals, what happens if the measurement > system turns out to be incorrect? What else that we > 'think' we know will have to be revised? Suppose the > red shift isn't as great as we always thought it was? > Then maybe we will have to revise all the distance and > speed measurements we've expounded as facts all these > years. Well, that's science. However, the chances that the distance interpretation will have to be revised is much likelier than that the concept of the expanding universe will have to be revised. And while it will be annoying to have to determine the implications of a younger or older universe (much more annoying if the universe is younger), inconsistencies between theory and observation are what generates growth in science. > > In any event, if life were dependent on such localized conditions, it > > would, of course, die when it left those localized conditions. > True...unless it took the local conditions with it; like > in a space ship or a space suit. Yes, but things like a local speed of light or a different gravitational constant seem very unlikely to be things that you can take with you. > > > Are these unique properties true under all conditions? What happens to > > > chemistry when it evolves on a planet that is larger or smaller than > > > earth, has a completely different atmosphere than earth, and orbits a > > > binary or even a trinary star system in a matter of days or in hundreds > > > of years? > > These would not affect atomic properties. > Disagree...extreme gravity like that on Jupiter or a > neutron star certainly has an effect on atomic > properties. Don't some elements become electrically > conductive when they are under extreme pressure? I > think one of the UFO explanations that some people are > trying to champion is earth lights created when bedrock > is put under extreme pressure. Since electricity is > electron flow, such would be a change in atomic property. I certainly would agree with that. Robert Forward had a lot of fun in one of his novels with "neutron star" life. But the problem I find with that and with the idea of life at the core of Jupiter is how to generate any structural differentiation in the life form. And I think that something which is homogenous cannot be alive. It seems to me, based on things like ultracentrifuge use, that the increases in gravity would tend to layer materials by density, and thus, there would be much less opportunity for density variations in the body of such a hypothetical life form - and thus, much less opportunity for the compartmentalization of function. And, as yet, I see know evidence that compounds (i.e. molecules of varied elements) can survive those conditions. The hydrogen at Jupiter's core would not be metallic because of chemical changes, but because the electron shells had been "smashed" and scattered. Under those conditions, I find it hard to expect a complex, differentiated multi-molecular life form to come into existence or maintain its integrity. Now that's not just a "hot, low-pressure guy" prejudice. It's just chemistry and the properties needed for the existence of an organism. However, I'm ready to change my tune at the slightest sign something like that exists. > > I think the basic characteristics of life are fairly well agreed on: > > a) Maintains its integrity > > b) Reproduces > > c) Utilizes products of the environment for growth and repair > > d) Excretes waste products > > It's only when you get into things at the edges, like viruses, that there > > are difficulties, but I have no problem with not considering viruses ex > > vitro to not be alive. > But a virus does exhibit all the things you identified so > why shouldn't it be considered alive? Well, actually it doesn't. By itself, without a supporting cell, the virus just sits there. In fact, it can even be crystallized. It won't reproduce (it can't without the cell), it doesn't take in or excrete (the cell it takes over when infecting one do that for it), but yes, it does utilize products of the environment for growth and repair. Then again, one could contend that crystals have that property, and I suspect we'd agree they're not alive. > Mark, I've really > enjoyed the discussion, but I have to say that I think I > am taking unfair advantage of you. I can speculate all > day long because I'm not constrained by any scientific > principals. You, on the other hand, are replying from a > background of scientific research with documented scientific > investigation to back up your conclusions; therefore, the > discussion is unfairly biased in my direction. Should we go > at this on a level playing field, you would win hands down. "Ah, but it's not the victory, it's the game that's fun!" I have also enjoyed this. Who knows, maybe there's a new story or a new breakthrough in this? ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: 'Rods'? From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 12:04:25 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 01:14:49 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/18/97 3:36 AM: > Date: Wed, 17 Sep 97 17:29:00 > From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Rods'? > >Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:51:08 -0700 > >From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) > >To: Updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Re: 'Rods'? > >distance from the camera. The movements of the objects also seemed > >charaterictally "non-buglike", very elegant hairpin turns and smooth > >motion almost like fish. > Could you consider perhaps with Karen's computer animation > experience and Jose's photography skills and film producing > skills... that what we have here is the possibility that this > rod film is computer animated? > I am only suggesting this as a possibility because of their > knowledge and thirst for the public spotlight... and their > film production business. As an experienced computer artist and animator, I would tend to discount this possibility. Certainly it is possible, but there are no giveaways to indicate it. I think the "rods" proponents are sincere, but I have yet to see work which unambiguously confirms their contentions as to size and distance. In the absence of that, I think we are looking at insects blurred by closeness and motion. As to the contention that the "style" of motion eliminates the possibility of insects, I would ask the earlier poster to explain why insects would not appear to move that way in air? It seems to me that they have a sufficiently high thrust to weight ratio, and, in addition, there are the effects of wind and convection to consider. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com -------------------------------- Search for other documents from or mentioning: mcashman | rprokic |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: UFO sighting with John Velez From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 12:15:23 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 01:17:02 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/18/97 4:14 AM: > From: "Clark Hathaway & Julie Presson" <earthwrk@doitnow.com> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFO sighting with John Velez > Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:16:07 -0700 > ---------- > > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: UFO UpDate: UFO sighting with John Velez > > Date: Monday, September 15, 1997 1:11 AM > > From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> > > To: "UFO Updates (E-mail)" <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: UFO sighting with John Velez > > Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:56:48 -0400 > > 1. I've never had a UFO sighting, or even thought for half a second > > that I was having one. I don't expect to look in the sky and see > > something strange. > I gave a talk up in Durango this weekend past and happened top make > commentary on that. It is indeed interesting that out of a crowd craning > their collect necks upward searching the sky for something that everyone > else seems to be watching, some inevitably (or quite a few as the case may > be) do not see anything. > Now having stated that, I believe that I have a valid reason why in many if > not most cases. Not all of us are equipped with the same expansion of > awareness as perhaps the next guy. We also need to most carefully be aware that tiny objects at the limits of resolution can only be seen by those with the appropriate acuity. Thus, some people see a spot of light in the sky and others don't. Perhaps the focus of the others eyes is not as sharp, or perhaps their ability to distiguish relatively small brightness variations is not as good. Remember Hynek's analysis of the Mantell case? It could have been Venus except that Venus was only 6-8 times brighter than the surrounding sky and was thus effectively invisible. In other words, even 6-8 times is not sufficiently brighter for most people to distinguish a point source in a daytime sky. > > So what was it? Beats me. I've never seen anything like it before. > > With the naked eye, it was like a star shining in daylight. Through > > binoculars, it had a vague shape. It didn't make any major movements. > > I'd guess it was in view for a minute or less. I didn't think to time > > it. It seemed to be there a fairly long while, but I'm aware from > > other, non-UFO experiences that I tend to overestimate the time of > > any event. I'd say a minute max, maybe 30 or 45 seconds. Again, possibly a sign of an object at the extreme limits of visibility, possibly reflecting sun for a period, and then banking or otherwise redirecting the reflection elsewhere. I once saw something like this on a summer afternoon while driving across a bridge. The reflection reappeared a bit later, elsewhere, and then slowly faded. I have no reason to believe it was not an aircraft. The fact that Greg's film did not come out is also an indication that the object was both on the limits of resolution, and was not quite sufficiently distinct from the brightness of the background as to be caught on film. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com -------------------------------- Search for other documents from or mentioning: mcashman | earthwrk |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: UFO sighting with John Velez From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 12:33:31 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 01:22:28 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez >From: "Shevlin, Donnie" <donnies@Meridinet.com> >To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez >Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:11:15 -0500 >>>Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:55:35 -0500 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez >>>Hi Errol, Greg, >>>Doesn't matter Greg, no ones paying attention anyway! Apparently we're >>>only talking to each other for all the response that the sighting report >>has triggered. <Large Snip> >Greetings Errol, John and others, >Not true John. I been lurking here for quite some time. I am >appalled that not one response from those that feel qualified >have contacted you about this most obvious occurrence. >You have my sympathies and my attention. >Donald W. Shevlin (A common man opinion) =========================================== >Okay, John >I'll answer you. You might remember that I sent you a private email >after one of your recent sighting reports. I seldom have the guts to >respond to the posts on this list for the following reasons: >1. I'm nobody. (snip) >Sharolyn ========================================== Hi Errol, Don, Sharolyn, All, UFO sightings on the side, In addition to a couple of other e-mails I have recieved the 'message' I keep getting from folks on this list is disturbing. >I'm nobody. What this tells me is that we have a lot of folks who would like to comment participate, or simply express an oppinion and they are holding back because they either think that they have to be a 'well known personality' to participate, or they're afraid of being eaten alive by some of the land sharks that swim in these waters. A. You don't have to write a book or be a well known ufologist to (participate) on Errols list. As long as the comments or information are relevant or contribute to the thread in question the material gets posted. B. "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me." As for the 'land sharks.' If you are going to let _them_ stop you then you have some personal issues to deal with. No-one is being physically beaten or injured here. This is all completely verbal. If someone says something, say something back! As long as information and not insults are being exchanged they get posted. Also, Errol does a good job of keeping 'flames' off of the list. So, all anyone can do is possibly disagree with you , and say so in an e-mail. What's to stop you? C. This list _has to be_ maintained as a 'level playing field' or none of us would be able to participate. It would become, "The Online Lecture Network" No, this is an open forum and _anyone_ who has something of value to contribute should feel free to do so. I'm sorry that so many of you feel that you have to be "somebody" (well known in ufology) in order to participate in UFO UpDates, that's just not so. The beauty of this thing _is_ that nobody schmucks like me _are_ given the opportunity to interact with people who have given a lot of years of their time to the study of this phenomenon. Where else do you get a chance to do that? Lurk and enjoy the list but if you ever get a bug up your nose to respond to something, by all means do so. You never know, your comment or idea on a particular topic may be the one that makes a difference. Thank you all for your encouragement and support. Had you not "posted" I never would have gotten it! <G> (Errol, If I stepped on your 'editorial toes' here feel free to yell ouch! <G>) [Nah - wanna buy a List? <VBG> - ebk] "All power to the people." John (we all put our pants on one leg at a time) Velez John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: 'Rods'? - In Answer to all From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 12:44:35 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 01:29:00 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? - In Answer to all > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/18/97 4:30 AM: > From: rjke@webtv.net (Jose and Karen Escamilla) > Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:21:26 -0600 > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: 'Rods'? - In Answer to all > Mark mentions that the shadow across the torso of the cave rod "could > be" duplicated with a time exposure, and he gives an example about a > ball using this technque; but the cave rod was shot in real time video > as the base jumper took his dive. > This was a one shot deal. Not allowing for any time lapse photography as > Mark so carelessly suggests. Nice try, but Mark be more realistic in > your insights. Jose, you are missing my point. The question was how an object blurred in a frame by motion could show a cast shadow on itself. I explained it the way I did so that anyone could attempt to reproduce it. However, it is essential to remember that EVERY image, video or photo is a "time exposure", and depending on the speed and proximity of the object involved, one can experience the same effects in a 1/10000 of a second exposure as in a 3 second exposure. And some of the information posted here indicates that 1/10000 of a sec in a video camera does not have the same stopping power as in a camera with an actual shutter. > Bruce Maccabee, Dr. Jack Kasher and Jim Dilettoso have seen the cave > footage and I finally got topographical maps, latitude/longitude > information on the cave, which will be forwarded to Bruce, Jack and Jim, > so that thy can use this data in finding out how big, fast and far away > this thing was from the base jumper and the camera. > Bruce says that once he gathers this information & data about the time > of day and time that this event was taped, he will be able to determine > the probable size and speed of this Rod object from the cave. This will > certainly rule the insect theory. As always, I have a hard time seeing how you can know the results of this analysis before you perform it. I appreciate your confidence in your methods, but it is more scientific to be skeptical prior to measurement and analysis. At least to say "this analysis will cast some light on the insect theory, etc." would be a safer statement. I am not sure how lat/long data is going to tell anyone how far the object was from the camera. The only reliable method for determining this is parallax and triangulation. > Mark and others feel that we're not being scientific enough to warrant > ourselves as serious investigators. If science is based on closed minded > opinions before the fact, then I suggest the annals of scientific > investigation be re-written. Unless you are out in the field with us, > documenting and adding your knowledge to this investigation, then I > doubt that anyone should take your commentary as a serious scientific > analysis of the Rods phenomena. Why do personalities have to be brought in to this? Can't your data stand up to technical criticism? Do you think that people in the conventional sciences don't get their experiments questioned? Do you think that measurement errors and artifacts aren't issues in conventional science? Why would I bother with the critique if I didn't take your data seriously? Have a look at some books on, for instance, electron microscopy. There you will see that even experienced scientists have used flawed techniques and reported structures in cells which did not actually exist, but which were artifacts of the preservation method used, or the method of exposure. Their errors were discovered and discussed by other scientists, some of whom did experiments, and others of whom did mathematical modeling. Those scientists whose work was criticised didn't spend their time complaining, they tried experiments to disprove the contentions of the critics, and if those experiments failed to do so, they accepted it and moved on. To the extent you do this, I applaud you. And, I also think that you should realize that one does not have to be "out in the field" to be able to offer a critique of your methods or your interpretations. I am surprised, considering your statement, that you bother to send data to Maccabee, who I suspect is not out there with you either. > Mark; join us on the expedition if you really want to exercise your > intellectual knowledge while applying it out in the field. Thanks for the invitation, but I'm afraid a long journey is not in the budget of money or time at the moment. --- On a related note, we often on this list come down to this discussion of what will improve the scientific standing of UFO studies. To my mind, the continuing debate on "rods" is exactly the sort of thing which does that. In science, an observation is raised and a hypothesis is made. Someone else raises a counter-hypothesis. Tests are performed, and perhaps they are not conclusive, so another hypothesis is raised, and tests are performed. Jose's hypothesis is (correct me if I'm wrong): Rods are large, high-speed objects some distance from the camera. The blurring is an effect of their intrinsic speed, and, possibly, some sort of field surrounding them. My hypothesis is: Rods are insects or other objects, either self-powered or blown by the wind, whose proximity to the camera and size causes a blurring effect because of angular movement during the exposure. I believe the mathematics and statistics I have presented have shown that "rods" can be explained in this manner. The angular size of rods is not inconsistent with insect sized objects at some proximity to the camera, and the speed at which the rods move is not inconsistent with the apparent angular speed or the calculated distance and size of the object, or the known speeds of insects. However, the most important test comes with a verifiable triangulation of a rod. I look forward to seeing the results. In any event, in science, the scientist takes a risk in making a hypothesis: a risk that the hypothesis will be proven wrong. Jose takes that risk and so do I. However, both of us must be willing to accept it if we are proven wrong, or we leave the domain of science and head into the foggier domain of "faith". ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 13:25:54 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 01:34:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> >Subject: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings >Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:53:10 -0700 >John - >It's a bit unfair for you or anyone else to be slamming people who are >doing good and important research simply because they have not attempted >to investigate your sighting reports. Hi Errol, Mark, All, Hey Mark! I hear you man. It wasn't directed at anyone specific, I was just trying to rattle a cage or two. It seems to me that the focus of "research" into UFO's should be heavily wieghted toward investigating the very latest (freshest) sightings cases available. Sadly, that is not the case however. A vast majority of those that have dedicated themselves to unraveling the Gordian knot called UFOs are chasing 'paper' not UFO's or their occupants. The post was just me intentionally blowing it out of proportion in order to let everyone see it. Whether you agree or disagree with my 'methods' it worked! Why all the noise you ask me. The photo's I have been publishing are all being taken (over my house.) I live in NYC. This is a MAJOR metropolitan US city. THERE ARE UFO'S OVER NEW YORK! (Get it?) And, I have been able to get them corroborated. That's why I'm jumping up and down to get some attention, and why I'm so shocked at the utter lack of response. I mean if reports of flying saucers over New York (and regularly too) can't even elicit a response from UFO researchers then what the hell is 'UFO research' all about nowadays? Archives, dusty files, and dusty cases are the passtimes of dusty old men who can no longer get their flattened asses out of an armchair, and rightfully so. But if a rash of unidentified aircraft sightings over New York can't even get a squeak out of the rest, then this _is_ a dead end field. Why all the noise you ask me. A professional thief was asked by a reporter as he was being carted off to the 'Big House' why he had robbed a bank. He responded, "When you want money, you go to where the money is at!" Brilliant deduction on his part! Applies here too. If you want to _see or study UFO's_ you have to 'go to where the UFO's are at.' It's as simple as that. If you want to chase paper then fine, chase paper. But, if you want to see, photograph or study the real thing live, in broad daylight, over one of the most densely populated urban areas on the planet,...we got yer UFOs right heah! Thanks for your response Mark, I'm well aware of all the constrictions in terms of $ and travel that independant investigators have to contend with, I was just trying to make a point. "There are UFO's over NY and I ain't too surprised." - John Lennon John Velez "Solitary voice crying out in the wilderness" John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze From: nick@emailme.at.address.below (Nick Humphries) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 18:23:01 GMT Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 01:37:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze > Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:57:47 +0200 (MET DST) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze [was: MUFON Journal > Muses] > At 12:46 AM 9/18/97 -0400, you wrote: > >From: nick@emailme.at.address.below (Nick Humphries) > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MUFON Journal Muses > >Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:29:04 GMT > [I said, to provide some context:] > >> The bottom line is that if Barbara really had any proof we would > >> have heard about it by now, in the course of 8 years. You might > >> want to try and replace your rabidly opinionated "gut feelings" > >> with a more proper foundation for your claims. > [Nick then said:] > >Ignoring the flame... The statement that if there was "really > >had any proof we would have heard about it by now, in the > >course of 8 years" on Gulf Breeze or ANY case is an ill-founded > >one. > >This is silly - if scientists worked this way, many would give > >up before accomplishing any major discovery. > You're completely misreading, as usual. As usual? > My comment relates only > to Ms. Becker having any alleged "proof" (hence my "if Barbara > really had any proof"), not to any other negative evidence that > in principle could still turn up. Why is Barbara a special case in your reasoning? You are now claiming that she cannot have found any new evidence regarding Gulf Breeze because any evidence she finds should have already been found in the past eight years. What logic is this? > You've succeeded in debunking > something I didn't write, essentially. Congratulations. You're promoting the following: "Person X cannot have found proof of hoax for case Y because the proof should have been found in the past Z years." <<<<Extrapolated from : > >> The bottom line is that if Barbara really had any proof we would > >> have heard about it by now, in the course of 8 years. >>>> I assumed that this would be a universal law, but apparently not because Barbara is in some way special. Why is Barbara an exception, Jean? > >It is also illogical - Jean's argument is that no case could be > >solved because, if any solution was possible, it would have > >been found already. > I didn't assert this, read my comment again. This time with > your eyes open please. Funny how you accuse me of not reading your post and Barbara recently posting that you have no idea what her paper says... <"what is proof?" argument snipped : my view is that the "alien" explaination should be a last resort, and as such should be under constant review. To do otherwise leads to the creation of sacred horses which slows down the already minimal progress of ufology.> ------------------------------------------------------- Nick Humphries, nick@the-den.clara.net, at your service If the Truth is Out There, what's In Here? ------------------------------------------------------- The Your Sinclair Rock'n'Roll Years http://www.the-den.clara.net/ys/cover.htm -------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: 'Rods'? From: mdavis@ccsmtp.glycomed.COM (Davis, Michael) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 97 11:21:16 pst Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 01:41:51 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> >Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 02:28:57 -0700 >Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 04:29:11 -0400 >Subject: Re: 'Rods'? >Speeds seem to be a bit slower. 9 km / hr for honeybees. Of course, >that's ground, not airspeed. 15-20 km / hr for some others. >Locusts can jump at velocities of 340 cm / sec which is .34 m / sec or >.034 km / sec or 122 km / hr, which is roughly 50 mph (I hate conversions) >(Mark Cashman) ---------------- >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:46:44 -0400 >Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:59:47 -0400 >Subject: Re: 'Rods'? >At the 5.2 mm setting the depth of field is enormous. At a moderate >lens aperture (f/8 - f/11) the depth of field extends from the front >surface of the lens to infinity, so an insect zooming by at 1 mm from >the lens front surface would still be rendered relatively clearly. >(Bob Shell) Bob, Group, Provided the above flight speed info is accurate and combined with the technical photography info, can we make any educated assumptions as to weather the hypothetical insect would be in focus or out of focus? In other words, could we determine if a housefly traveling at 35 mph, 15 feet from the camera lens and photographed at 1/10,000 would be in focus or blurry? Or do we need more specific information regarding f/stop settings, film type, lens size, etc.? Thanks, Michael Davis mdavis@glycomed.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: mdavis | mcashman |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Another 'Smoking Tornado' Case From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:24:46 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 01:45:56 -0400 Subject: Another 'Smoking Tornado' Case I believe this is a different case from the one posted earlier, but note the similarity: Dec. 07, 1872 0100 hours At King's Sutton an object resembling a haystack flew on an irregular course. Sometimes high, sometimes very low it was accompanied by fire and dense smoke. It produced the same effect as a tornado, felling trees and walls. It suddenly vanished. Banbury (Great Britain). (Fort 189). (Magonia) ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: UFO sighting with John Velez From: mdavis@ccsmtp.glycomed.COM (Davis, Michael) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 97 12:26:27 pst Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 01:48:00 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: "UFO Updates (E-mail)" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO sighting with John Velez >Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:56:48 -0400 >I looked, and there it was - a small bright pinpoint. Imagine if >the stars shone by day, and you'd spotted a bright one. That might >give you an idea of what this looked like. The color was silvery white. >"If it's a plane," John answered, "why is it hovering?" >It seemed to be there a fairly long while, but I'm aware from >other, non-UFO experiences that I tend to overestimate the time of >any event. I'd say a minute max, maybe 30 or 45 seconds. Hello, I suppose this may be a bit simplistic, but the above sounds exactly like a plane, from the written description. I suggest this embarrassingly obvious solution because I live in the San Francisco Bay Area between the Oakland Int'l Airport and the S.F. Int'l Airport. My home is on in tall hilly area overlooking virtually all of the immediate Bay Area. At any given time of the day or night, there could be over a dozen planes flying about. Apparently, my living room is in direct line of sight with a corridor used for jet take off. Every few minutes there appears to be an extremely bright white light hovering in the sky for what seems to be an uncomfortably long time, i.e., 30-45 seconds. The light then generally makes a right turn and flies off out of sight. Naturally, the jet appears to be hovering as it's in direct line of sight, then makes a 'right angle' turn. The pilot will turn off the lights as the jet ascends on to it's flight path creating the illusion that the light/object has disappeared. I don't mean to insult John and company's observation skills, but the written description seems like what I see out of my living room window every 3-5 minutes. Is it possible to enhance the video image? I'm just not sure how I (or we) can respond in a constructive way to a description of a blurry point of light. Thanks, Michael Davis mdavis@glycomed.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality From: fergus@ukraine.corp.mot.com [George Fergus] Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:29:55 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 01:54:11 -0400 Subject: Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality For several weeks now, a consultant with the American Computer Company has been telling the world via their website that Bell Labs did not really invent the transistor but rather reverse-engineered it from an alien artifact recovered from the Roswell UFO crash, and that the device in the "famous transfer resistor test rig" at Bell Labs was, in fact, "an actual piece of the original Alien integrated circuit array". A recent addition to the website adds the following: > According to one of our Scientific Sources, prior to 1947, there were > no Transistors in use, only raw germanium and selenium diodes composed > of naturally occurring elements -- mined from Bauxite and other mines. > After September of 1947 and the alleged alien technology transfer to > Bell Labs by the US Department of Defense, the entirely ARTIFICIALLY > comprised Silicon 'Transistor' suddenly emerged at Bell Labs, arsenic > doped in trace quantities into specially prepared Silicon produced > remarkable changes in the 'conductive properties' of Silicon, when > Boron and other gases and liquids were used to deposit it in the > Silicon base. This produced the "Transistor" effects that had not been > discovered by researchers working with rectifiers in over a hundred > years. There 4 misstatements of fact in the above: 1) The first transistors were made out of germanium, not silicon. It is a common misconception that because integrated circuits today are typically made out of silicon, all previous transistors had to be made out of silicon. [For proof see "Nature of Forward Current in Germanium Point Contacts" by Bardeen and Brattain, PHYSICAL REVIEW 74, 231 (July 15, 1948) and "Hole Injection in Germanium - Quantitative Studies and Filamentary Transistors" by Shockley, Pearson and Haynes, BELL SYSTEM TECHNICAL JOURNAL 28, 344-366 (July 1949)] 2) Pre-1947 semiconductor diodes were _not_ made out of "raw" germanium or silicon. They must be doped with impurities in order to obtain conduction. [The production of n-type germanium is given as the example in "Germanium Crystal Diodes" by E.C. Cornelius, ELECTRONICS 19, 118-123 (Feb 1946). The production of p-type silicon is the example in "Crystal Rectifiers" by W.E. Stevens in ELECTRONICS 19, 112-119 (July 1946)] 3) An Earthly "integrated circuit array" is typically made of silicon doped with arsenic and boron to produce multiple p-n junctions. Yet the first transistor, in the "test rig" referred to above, contained no p-n junctions. It was a "point-contact" device resembling previous point-contact diodes. It consisted of two sharp metal probes making spring contact close together on a block of n-type germanium, as compared to point-contact diodes which have only a single spring metal probe on a block of n-type germanium. It had no p-n junctions and no silicon, only metal-germanium junctions. [See "Type A Transistor" by R.M. Ryder, BELL LABORATORIES RECORD 25, 89-93 (March 1949)] 4) The new transistor was quickly reproduced by investigators in other laboratories, proving that it was made from ordinary germanium and not from any special piece of alien stuff. ["Some Novel Circuits for the Three-Terminal Semiconductor Amplifier" by Webster et al., RCA REVIEW 10, 5-16 (March 1949)] In light of these factual errors, I feel confident in concluding that the claims are bogus. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ For those who are interested in the history of the first transistor, here is an excerpt from "The TRANSISTOR - A Crystal Triode" by Fink and Rockett in ELECTRONICS 21, 68-71 (Sep 1948), describing the work at the Bell Telephone Laboratories: "Although investigation of semiconductors at BTL dates back a number of years, with the end of the war a concentrated basic research progrm was undertaken." <snip> "The group on semiconductors, led by William Shockley, one of this country's leading solid-state physicists, was seeking answers to three basic questions: (1) physically, what is a semiconductor, (2) how doers its physical nature produce its observed properties, and (3) how does the fabrication and processing of the material affect its physical nature? Among the semiconductors studied were silicon, copper oxide, and germanium." "A great deal of empirical information had been amassed on these substances during their use, particularly as detectors in microwave equipment ("Crystal Rectifiers", H.C. Torrey and C.A. Whitmer, Mcgraw-Hill, 1948). In particular it was known that their resistivities were determined chiefly by impurities, and furthermore that their resistivities could be varied over wide ranges by applying various external influences (light in the case of photocells, electric potential in the case of rectifiers and detectors, or temperature in the case of Thermistors)." <snipped explanation of what semiconductors are> "Likewise, a high potential applied externally (without making contact) to a semiconductor should change its resistivity. Using a sheet of germanium as one plate of a capacitor, Shockley and his colleagues measured the change in resistance produced by changing the voltage across the capacitor. The change in resistance was much smaller than anticipated in the light of prevailing theory. Conclusion: something wrong with theory. So John Bardeen, a theoretical physicist in the group, devised a theory of surface states that would account for the measured change as well for older known effects unexplained by previous theories." <snipped description of exisitng semiconductor theory> "The new theory suggested new experiments, which, when performed, called for refinements in the theory. While W.H. Brattain and John Bardeen were following up the consequences of the refined theory of surface states they invented the Transistor." The discovery was made in December 1947, but not announced to the world at large until July, 1948, after additional devices has been fabricated and tested. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Further details are given by J. Bardeen and W.H. Brattain themselves in their introduction to "Physical Principles Involved in Transistor Action", published simultaneously in BELL SYSTEM TECHNICAL JOURNAL 28, 239-277 (Apr 1949) and PHYSICAL REVIEW 75, 1208-1225 (1949) as follows: "The properties of germanium as a semi-conductor and as a rectifier have been investigated by a group working under the direction of K. Lark-Horovitz at Purdue University. Work at the Bell Telephone Laboratories was initiated by R.S. Ohl before the war in connection with the development of silicon rectifiers for use as detectors at microwave frequencies. Research and development on both germanium and silicon rectifiers during and since the war has been done in large part by a group under J.H. Scaff. The background of information obtained in these various investigations hs been invaluable." [A summary of the wartime weapons research can be found in "Development of Silicon Crystal Rectifiers for Microwavve Radar Receivers" by Scaff and Ohl, BELL SYSTEM TECHNICAL JOURNAL 26, 1-30 (Jan 1947)] "The general research program leading to the transistor was initiated and directed by W. Shockley. Work on germanium and silicon was emphasized because they are simpler to understand than most other semi-conductors. One of the investigations undertaken was the study of the modulation of conductance of a thin film of semi-conductor by an electric field applied by an electrode insulated from the film. [described in "Modulation of Conductance by Surface Charges" by Shockley and Pearson, PHYSICAL REVIEW 74, 232 (July 15, 1948)] If, for example, the film is made one plate of a parallel plate condenser, a charge is induced on the surface. If the individual charges which make up the induced charge are mobile, the conductance of the film will depend on the voltage applied to the condenser. The first experiments performed to measure this effect indicated that most of the induced charge was not mobile. This result, taken along with other unexplained phenomena such as the small contact potential difference between n- and p- type silicon and the independence of the rectifying properties of the point contact rectifier on the work function of the metal point, led one of the authors [Bardeen, "Surface States and rectification at metal semiconductor contact", PHYSICAL REVIEW 71, 717-727 (1947)] to an explanation in terms of surface states. This work led to the concept that space charge barrier layers may be present at the free surfaces of semi-conductors such as germanium and silicon, independent of a metal contact. Two experiments immediately suggested were to measure the dependence of contact potential on impurity concentration and to measure the change of contact potential on illuminating the surface with light. Both of these experiments were successful and confirmed the theory. [Brattain & Shockley, PHYSICAL REVIEW 72, 345L (1947)] It was while studying the latter effect with a silicon surface immersed in a liquid that it was found that the density of surface charges and the field in the space charge region could be varied by applying a potential across an electrolyte in contact with the silicon surface. While studying the effect of field applied applied by an electrolyte on the current voltage characeristic of a high-back-voltage germanium rectifier, the authors were led to the concept that a portion of the current was being carried by holes flowing near the surface. Upon replacing the electrolyte with a metal contact transistor action was discovered." "The germanium used in the transistor is an n-type or excess semi-conductor with a resistivity of the order of 10 ohm-cm, and is the same as the material used in high-back-voltage germanium rectifiers." ["Preparation of High Back Voltage Germanium Rectifiers" by J.H. Scaff and H.C. Theuerer, NATIONAL DEFENSE RESEARCH COMMITTEE 14-555 (Oct 24, 1945)] <snipped discussion of more manufacturing details, how the transistor characteristics change with separation between the contact points, the nature of conductivity in germanium, the theory of the i-v characteristic of a germanium point contact, and other aspects of the new theory of bipolar transistor action.> "Our discussion has been confined to the transistor in which two point contacts are placed in close proximity on one face of a germanium block. It is apparent that the principles can be applied to other geometrical designs and to other semi-conductors. Some preliminary work has shown that transistor action can be obtained with silicon and undoubtedly other semi-conductors can be used." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Later that year, William Shockley extended the theory from simple metal- semiconductor junctions to full semiconductor-semiconductor junctions, and suggested that the behavior of a transistor made from such junctions would be easier to predict than that of the point-contact transistors made so far. From the introduction to "The Theory of p-n Junctions in Semiconductors and p-n Junction Transistors", BELL SYSTEM TECHNICAL JOURNAL 28, 435-489 (July 1949): "As is well known, silicon and germanium may be either n-type or p-type semiconductors, dependig on which of the concentrations Nd of donors or Na of acceptors, is the larger. If, in a single sample, there is a transition from one type to the other, a rectifying photosensitive p-n junction is formed. The theory of such junctions is in contrast to those of ordinary rectifying junctions because, on both sides of the junction, both electron flow and hole flow must be considered. In fact, a major portion of the hole current may persist into the n-type region and vice- versa. In later sections we show how this feature has a number of interesting consequences" ... "A p-n junction may act as an emitter in the transistor sense, since it can inject hole current into n-type material." <snip to end of article> "The p-n-p transistor has the interesting feature of being calculable to a high degree. One can consider such questions as the relative ratios of width to length of the n-region and the effect of altering impurity contents and scaling the structure to operate in different frequency ranges." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ With the assistance of several others (Morgan, Sparks, & Teal), Shockley went on to produce a working p-n junction transistor in 1951, and in 1952 he went on to develop the theory behind the field-effect transistor, which is the type most commonly used today in computer chips. ["A Unipolar Field-Effect Transistor", PROCEEDINGS OF THE I.R.E. 40, 1365+ (Nov 1952)] -George Fergus
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: 'Rods'? - In Answer to all From: Ted Viens <drtedv@smart1.net> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:32:39 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 02:19:06 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? - In Answer to all > From: rjke@webtv.net (Jose and Karen Escamilla) > Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:21:26 -0600 > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: 'Rods'? - In Answer to all > In reply to: Bob, Mark, Roger, Burt, Jim and others... > Without getting into any heated arguements, I really want to focus on > the Rods phenomena, and I will put all insulting and demeaning words > aside in this message. With the exception of Roger, who is making a > direct accuasation that I'm hoaxing all this for money..... I won't > even begin to go there.---snip--- Jose, I don't know you from a hole in the ground, but it certainly appears to me that you are taking a wrong headed approach here. You are coming across as mealy-mouthed and self-serving. I will presume this is not your intent. I hope I am not wrong... > For those of you that don't know my background, I am not a novice or > amateur > where it comes to video or 35mm filmmaking. I have over 15 years > experience as a film and video editor, and I do know about cameras, > shutter speeds, etc. I know of what I speak when I say, this is an > insect, a bird or other anomoly created by cameras or video artifacts. > As a film and video editor you "look for" things or artifacts that take > away from the scene. This is my profession. > ---snip--- I have a little difficulty with this. The cave jumper video shows an image item moving up and across the screen in a highly regular fashion. Its intensity changes in relation to the background. This can clearly and easily be an artifact of the video process. The artifact can be generated by any text overlay equipment that is either in the video chain perhaps in bypass mode, or feeding a cable running parallel to the video cable causing an induced parasitic signal into it. The apparent motion of the artifact would be caused by the source losing system lock and free running. The shading of the artifact would result from a 40 or so IRE contribution of the artifact. This would permit an additive effect with the background. The simplicity and ease of unintentionally generating this kind of highly regular image artifact must and should preclude them from consideration as a type of "rod". > We are planning to shoot with stereo camera set ups and measurements at > the sites where we know there is constant Rod activity. We are also > getting the newest camera made by Kodak which is a motion analyzer used > for measuring ballon deployment and ballistics captured on video. It has > a high shutter speed capacity of 40,500 fps, and Kodak is advertising it > as an absolute scientific measuring video camera for freezing bullets in > time. > ---snip--- I love toys as much as the next man and would never besmirch another man for wanting to play with the best toys he can get his hands on. Still, definitive experimentation can be done with only any pair of camcorders with high speed shutters, a couple of tall sticks and a dollars worth of 2 inch firecrackers. The two cameras need to be spaced far enough apart for easy triangulation. The two tall sticks with reference banding on them placed at two different distances from the camcorders in their common field of view. And every now and then a firecracker needs to be tossed up so that it explodes in their common view. Fancier equipment can be used, but it isn't really necessary. It might even be better if the camcorders are set at different shutter speeds. The difference in the apparent length of the rods from each camera would give an additional ability to decipher the actual length and speed. (Thanks to Bruce Maccabee for the reference sticks idea.) > Mark and Bob > Guys, > I know you exhibit great minds with your knowledge about photography, > etc. with all this technical jargon/analysis on the web; but Bob, when > you continue to say things like, "I'm going to look over my videos shot > during "hot buggy days" it seems to me that you are callous in the way > you present yourself as a true professional with the credentials you > claim to have. I am kind of suspicious as to why you would continue to > say such things, when you asked me to put the gloves down and be more > open to what we should discuss pertaining to the Rods in a professional > manner. > It seems that you tell me one thing, then try and defame our work, by > saying such mindless banter while my back was turned. > I kind of feel like you are not a trustworthy person when it comes to > serious study. Should I really send you the footage? You keep doing this > 360 that puts your credability in my "grey basket." > Are you a serious researcher or do you use these forums as a joke? > I have nothing to hide, what really is your agenda here in this forum? > You come off as an intellectual and then say something lame like that? > Are you for real? I would guess by your behavior that you lack > discipline in your field of science...if that's what it is...! > Mark; join us on the expedition if you really want to exercise your > intellectual knowledge while applying it out in the field. If you feel compelled to denigrate and insult others for reasonable if perhaps uninformed criticism then you are definitely the person with the reality problem. If your camcorders were operating in the high speed shutter mode then you present us with a very interesting phenomenon. If they unintentionally slipped out of high speed shutter mode, then bugs would be a reasonable hypothesis. Coincidentally, I have been videoing hummingbirds the last few weeks and what do you know, some of the time when I thought I was shooting in high speed, something messed up and I was shooting at regular speed. Things happen... Don't get me wrong. I am not presuming to tell you how to live your life. I am fascinated with this obscure effect you present us. I will continue to check into your work even if you continue to present yourself in the guise of a mealy mouthed, self-server. Naturally, I would prefer it to be otherwise... Bye... Ted..
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: 'Rods'? From: Michael Curta <UFOMedic@net1comm.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:05:09 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 02:20:21 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 07:49:17 -0400 > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> > Subject: Rods and such > To: Errol Bruce-Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> > Hi list, > Look, I didn't ask to get involved in this controversy over > "rods". Someone else asked my opinion. I answered honestly. > So why do I get a weird public post and a threatening private > one from someone??? Hi Bob, I did not see any weird public post to you and I'm sorry someone sent you a threatening post. I can assure you it was not me. I think you know me well enough form the Encounters Forum that if I had something to say I would just say it and would have enough respect for you or anyone to sign my name to it. Regards, Michael
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: 'Rods'? From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:26:02 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 02:22:55 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? > From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> > Date: Wed, 17 Sep 97 17:29:00 > Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:36:20 -0400 > Subject: Re: 'Rods'? > >Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:51:08 -0700 > >From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) > >To: Updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Re: 'Rods'? > Could you consider perhaps with Karen's computer animation > experience and Jose's photography skills and film producing > skills... that what we have here is the possibility that this > rod film is computer animated? > I am only suggesting this as a possibility because of their > knowledge and thirst for the public spotlight... and their > film production business. > Roger I don't know much about their "thirst for public spotlight" as you say but to respond to your question I would surmise with what I know about computer animation and video editing it's certainly possible to have synthesized what was on the tape. I should add however, that if I were going to spend the time to hoax a phenomemon like this I would probably not try to influence other photographers to go out and film the phenomenon. I believe Jose and Karen have made a number of attempts to get other people out into the field to film it. It seems ot me that accusing these two of hoaxing this phenomenon with what little we know here is much the same as accussing Karl Pflock or Kal Korff of being paid government agents. In other words rediculous. Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 First World UFO Forum - Brazil From: "A. J. Gevaerd" <gevaerd@alanet.com.br> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:29:42 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 02:25:55 -0400 Subject: First World UFO Forum - Brazil This material is the complete, updated information about the Forum. Any interested person should contact me asap to get reservation and/or registration to the congress, the biggest ever. A. J. Gevaerd Editor da Revista UFO gevaerd@alanet.com.br ------------------------------------------------- First World UFO Forum UFOs: official acknowledgement now! When: December, 07 to 14, 1997 Where: Brazil's Federal Capital Bras=EDlia (DF) Site: Parlamundi of the LBV Address: SGAS 915, lotes 75 and 76, Bras=EDlia (DF), Brazil Phone: +55 (61) 345-0050 ------------------------------------------------- Promoters: Associa=E7=E3o Fluminense de Estudos Ufol=F3gicos (AFEU) (Fluminense Association for UFO Studies) Centro Brasileiro de Pesquisas de Discos Voadores (CBPDV) (Brazilian Center for Flying Saucer Research) Centro de Pesquisas Ufol=F3gicas (CPU) (UFO Research Center) Instituto Nacional de Investiga=E7=E3o de Fen=F4menos Aeroespaciais (INFA) (National Institute for the Investigation of Aerospatial Phenomena) Instituto Ubirajara Rodrigues S/C (IUR) (Ubirajara Rodrigues Institute) N=FAcleo de Pesquisas Ufol=F3gicas (NPU) (Nucleus for UFO Research) ------------------------------------------------- Proposition: To discuss and comprehensively analyze the worldwide increasing of the UFO phenomena in the planet, drawing the attention of the general population, scientific and governmental authorities and departments to the UFO research. The Forum will also celebrate the 50th anniversary of the World Ufology. Come and join the most prominent world experts if the UFO Phenomena for an entire week of lectures and debates. This is your great chance to closely know what is new and actual in the national and international UFO research. Be a part of history! ------------------------------------------------- International speakers: Alejandro Agostinelli (Argentina) Barry Chamish (Israel) Bill Hamilton (USA) Bob Brown (USA) Boris Chourinov (Russia) Budd Hopkins (USA) Colin Andrews (England) Cynthia Hind (Zimbabwe) Daryosh Bagheri (Iran) David Jacobs (USA) Derrel Sims (USA) Donald Ware (USA) G. C. Shellhorn (USA) G=E1bor Tarcalli (Hungary) Gildas Bordaix (France) Giorgio Bongiovanni (Italy) Glennys Mackay (Australia) Graham Birdsall (England) Guenady Strekalov (Russia) Jaime Maussan (Mexico) Jaime Rodriguez (Equator) James Hurtak (USA) Javier Sierra (Spain) Jerome Clark (USA) Jesse Marcel Jr. (USA) Joaquim Fernandes (Portugal) John Carpenter (USA) John E. Mack (USA) Jorge Alfonso Ramirez (Paraguay) Jorge Mart=EDn (Puerto Rico) Leonard Sprinkle (USA) M=E1rio Dussuel Jurado (Chile) Mark Carlotto (USA) Maur=EDzio Baiata (Italy) Michael Hesemann (Germany) Michael Lindemann (USA) Pablo Villarrubia Mauso (Spain) Per Andersen (Denmark) Peter Davenport (USA) Robert Dean (USA) Roberto Banchs (Argentina) Roberto Pinotti (Italy) Rodrigo Fuenzalida (Chile) Roger Leir (USA) Ryszard Fiejtek (Poland) Stanton Friedman (Canada) Sun-Shi Li (China) Timo Koskeniemmi (Finland) Walter H. Andrus (USA) Wendelle Stevens (USA) Yvonne Smith (USA) ------------------------------------------------- National speakers: Ademar Eug=EAnio de Mello (SP) Ademar Jos=E9 Gevaerd (MS) Alberto Romero (BA) Aldo Novak (SP) Alonso Valdi R=E9gis (BA) Ana Santos (BA) Antonio Faleiro (MG) Bas=EDlio Baranoff (SP) C=E9sar Vanucci (MG) Chica Granchi (RJ) Claudeir Covo (SP) Cl=E1udio Pamplona (CE) Emanuel Paranhos (BA) Eust=E1quio A. Patounas (SC) Hern=E1n Mostajo (RS) Jos=E9 Luiz Lanhoso Martins (PA) Luciano Stancka e Silva (SP) Manoel Gilson Mitoso (AM) Marco Antonio Petit (RJ) Pedro Paulo Cunha Filho (DF) Rafael e Romio Cury (PR) Reginaldo de Athayde (CE) Ricardo Varela Corr=EAa (SP) Roberto Affonso Beck (DF) Ubirajara Franco Rodrigues (MG) Wilson Geraldo de Oliveira (DF) ------------------------------------------------- Special appearance: Almiro Bara=FAna (RJ) Antonio Nelso Tasca (SC) Elias Seixas (RJ) Geraldo Sim=E3o Bichara (MG) Gerson Maciel de Britto (RJ) Haroldo Westendorff (RS) Jos=E9 V=EDtor Soares (RS) Liliane F=E1tima da Silva (MG) Luiza Helena da Silva (MG) Uyrang=EA Soares Hollanda (RJ) Valqu=EDria A. da Silva (MG) ------------------------------------------------- Organizers: A. J. Gevaerd (CBPDV) Claudeir Covo (INFA) Marco A. Petit (AFEU) Rafael Cury (NPU) Reginaldo de Athayde (CPU) Ubirajara F. Rodrigues (IUR) ------------------------------------------------- The Forum will be a tribute to Irene Granchi, one of the greatest pioneer of the World Ufology; general Alfredo Moacyr Uch=F4a (in memoriam), the man who united Science and Spirituality; and newsman Luiz Petry, for his considerable contribution to the Brazilian Ufology. Your participation in the First World UFO Forum is easier than you imagine! The sooner you enroll, the better. Besides the fact that the seats are limited, you can get discounts by anticipating your registration. Information as follow: ------------------------------------------------- Prices of registering: The Forum will be held in two different auditoriums, one with the speakers live and another with their images in a huge screen. Registration fees are different. Proceed to registration throughout our Information and Registration Desk: +55 (61) 345-0050. Subscribers of the Brazilian UFO Magazine and Enigma Magazine get 10% of discount. Auditorium Jos=E9 de Paiva Netto (live lectures): Until September 30 US$ 160,00 Until October 31 US$ 180,00 Until November 31 US$ 200,00 Auditorium Austreg=E9silo de Athayde (images in a screen): Until September 30 US$ 110,00 Until October 31 US$ 130,00 Until November 31 US$ 150,00 Prices include all lectures, debates, roundtables and activities at the Forum. ------------------------------------------------- International air tickets: The First World UFO Forum has contracted Varig Brazilian Airlines as its official carrier. Brazilian company BBTur will be the official travel agency. Buying your ticket by Varig you get 30% of discount and have guaranteed seats until November 7th (after that seats are subject to availability). You can get information at any Varig counter in your country or calling the Forum Information and Registration Desk: +55 (61) 345-0050. Credit cards largely accepted. ------------------------------------------------- Lodging in Bras=EDlia: BBTur has contacted main hotels in Bras=EDlia. Prices per person are listed below. You can book reservations and/or pay your stay in advance throughout the Forum Information and Registration Desk. Observations: prices are inclusive of breakfast only, per day, plus 10% of service taxes. Credit cards largely accepted. Planalto Hotel (**) Single R$ 59,40 Double R$ 39,60 Triple R$ 33,00 Bristol Hotel (***) Single R$ 84,70 Double R$ 51,15 Triple R$ 39,60 Araquara Hotel (***) Single R$ 93,50 Double R$ 53,90 Triple R$ 44,00 San Marco Hotel (****) Single R$ 88,00 Double R$ 54,45 Manhattan Flat Hotel (****) Single R$125,40 Double R$ 69,30 Nacional Hotel (*****) Single R$ 102,30 Double R$ 58,30 Kubitschek Plaza Hotel (*****) Single R$ 138,60 Double R$ 79,30 ------------------------------------------------- If you are interested in coming down to Brazil to be part of history, don't waste any more minute and call the Forum Information and Registration Desk: +55 (61) 345-0050. ------------------------------------------------- Gevaerd@alanet.com.br
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 ACC has updated its web site From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 05:52:39 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 02:34:33 -0400 Subject: ACC has updated its web site Hi all, American Computer has updated its web posting on the alien technology transfer. http://www.american-computer.com/roswell.htm Here it is: RUMOR and CONVENTIONAL FOLK LORE have claimed that a UFO crash landed in Roswell, New Mexico, in September, 1947 near a Nuclear Research Center maintained by the US Air Force at its airbase in Roswell. Supposedly, authentic reports of the crash were suddenly covered up by the Air Force -- because the information unwisely released by base PR personnel, might constitute a threat to national security. Anecdotal reports have since claimed that Aliens, killed in the wreck, or afterward, were subsequently autopsied by the Surgeon General's office, and that the Surgeon General insisted that the autopsy be filmed. Supposedly: their bodies are now being stored by the US Army. [NOTE: in a recent series of unusual contacts with the Alien Presence Investigation community and the Public, allegations that these 'alien visitors' bodies resemble 'smallish grey or pink skinned beings with 6 fingers' have been alleged, stories that were supposedly circulating since 1948. According to one gentleman's EMAIL - entirely unconfirmed and entirely anecdotal - Military personnel at Wright Paterson Air Force Base in 1948, carried strange stories away from the base about "Dead Martians or something, on Ice" being transferred to Washington, DC by way of Wright Patterson, after the alleged crash, described in unconfirmed EMAILs sent to ACC since the story was first posted here. This unconfirmed report bears some resemblance to other stories which have surfaced in investigative journals. Again, we are describing these further reports to us, for your consideration against the context of our original story.] Much more recently, stories have begun surfacing about what the Army or Air Force supposedly did with the downed Alien Spacecraft in September and October of 1947. Nuclear Powered Engines and Advanced Communications and Computing devices, all of which were a hundred years beyond post-World War II technology, were taken from the Alien wreck and purportedly made their way to The Bell System's "Bell Laboratories", then located in Murray Hill, New Jersey -- it has been alleged. There, they were studied, dissected, microanalyzed and pieces tested. One piece was supposedly found to have unique potential, an Alien switching device composed of Silicon and Arsenic, arranged in a microscopic array much more complicated than even now have been assembled by Humankind, hundreds of years ahead. It purportedly became the priority focus object of Bell Labs' and The US Department of Defense's analysis and scientific research. It was discovered by the researchers, that the unusual electronic Alien device could act as both a high speed electronic switch and as an Amplifier. They decided to call it the "Transfer Resistor", because it could be made to resist or accept power flow at much higher or lower currents than were applied to it, depending upon unique application of electron flows. [According to one of our Scientific Sources, prior to 1947, there were no Transistors in use, only raw germanium and selenium diodes composed of naturally occurring elements -- mined from Bauxite and other mines. After September of 1947 and the alleged alien technology transfer to Bell Labs by the US Department of Defense, the entirely ARTIFICIALLY comprised Silicon 'Transistor' suddenly emerged at Bell Labs, arsenic doped in trace quantities into specially prepared Silicon produced remarkable changes in the 'conductive properties' of Silicon, when Boron and other gases and liquids were used to deposit it in the Silicon base. This produced the "Transistor" effects that had not been discovered by researchers working with rectifiers in over a hundred years.] [Our Scientific Commentator went on to tell us: The materials used require very advanced technology to manufacture that didn't exist in 1947, to produce them... were you to search the entire Deserts of Africa and Asia, you would not find a single piece of Silicon (sand) that would match this miracle of conductivity. Patents were awarded Bell Labs in the 1948 and 1949 era, indicating these 'alien' marvels to be 'earthshaking discoveries of scientist at Bell Labs' (Shockley, Bardeen and Brittain). Were they, in fact, then only recently discovered in debris from an Alien Craft allegedly wrecked in Roswell, New Mexico on July 7, 1947? Another crash site on another time and date?] Rumors have been flying in UFO-logy circles that, in 1948 and 1949, realizing that Aliens might not take lightly to this research, fearing attack not from the Soviet Union -- but from Aliens of unknown origin -- the U.S. Government hurriedly erected anti-aircraft batteries upgraded to Nike Anti-Missiles in the mid-to-late 50's in the surrounding Watchung Mountains of New Jersey... [and, the sake of completeness: a second site in Holmdel, New Jersey, both near Bell Lab's Murray Hills and Holmdel facilities] supposedly to protect it from space invasion!! It is not known if this is any indication that the Department of Defense accidently shot down the space craft and feared a reprisal. [Since originally publishing this account, we have received several letters from persons who grew up in the vacinity of these 'Bases' relating the following story: In the interest of public relations over missile bases in Union and Hunterdon County residents 'backyard', Bell Labs sponsored children in the 50s and 60s to take guided tours of the two missile bases on field trip from their grade and junior high schools, claiming the bases were 'to protect the residents of Central New Jersey from Russian Nuclear bombardment'.] Were they, in fact, just protecting Bell Labs from Space Invasion? [Some asked: Why not protect New York City, 60 miles distant, and place the launch pads where they could do so?] The Space Defense Anti-missile Batteries, along the Lookout Mountain Ridge north of Bell Labs, is now abandonded and partly overbuilt by a regional high school. On the "Lookout Mountain Nike Base" there were, supposedly, frequent "alien anti-invasion" readiness exercises and drills throughout the 50's, 60's and the early 70's, notably: their frequency reportedly increased any time UFO sightings were reported to the US Air Force -- particularly in the New Jersey flight corridors, or so it has been alleged !! According to one account: the Alien Silicon "amplifier / switch", evaluated in October and November of 1947, was discovered to have enormous implications. The Alien device was allegedly a hundred years beyond the then simple "junction diodes". [Our research has recently produced one possible explanation for why this may have been so significant: Rectifier Diodes commonly in use at the time by military electronics, were 'polarized' diodes that could only conduct power in 'one direction' - or 'unidirectional' - but they were not 'semiconducting' - which means 'variable in conductivity due to the effects of some other stimulus'. They were also composed of naturally occuring earth minerals, whereas Transistors were derived of a special and unique formula for doping refined Silicon with trace elements of Arsenic and other 'secret' materials, which THEN yielded the unusual 'semiconducting' properties of the Transistor -- our conclusion: the two devices are very, very different!] Yet it was reportedly determined at the time that simplified versions of the Alien devices could be manufactured by the effecting of several upgrades to existing technology. Then President Harry S. Truman ordered the devices "cloned" and a cover story manufactured. He was supposedly quoted as saying: "We can't keep so earthshaking a technological advance out of the hands of mankind. It just isn't right !" -- with classic Harry S. Truman sobriety. So, according to the story leaked by a reliable source to UFO-logy circles: in mid-December of 1947, to effect a plausible cover story, the DoD and Bell Labs purportedly manufactured a series of Press Releases, to whit: that after a "2 Year Long Extensive Research Effort" --discovery of the Transistor had "at last" been accomplished, supposedly by clever Bell Labs researchers (Drs. Shockley, Bardeen and Brattain, at Bell Lab's Electronic Circuits Research Center, under the aegis of maverick Bell Labs Vice President John "Jack" Morton, [NOTE: we have learned that Mr. Morton was murdered in the early 70's under highly bizarre circumstances]). Since that time, The Bell System, and Bell Labs, in the hands of successor company AT&T and its partly owned subsidiary, Lucent Technologies, have continued to maintain the "Transistor Story" for all of posterity, while quietly covering up the real tracks that led the Alien devices to Bell Labs. An Alien Technology proponent says that the device in the famous "transfer resistor test rig" at Bell Labs was, in fact, an actual piece of the original Alien integrated circuit array of transistor-like circuit pieces -- found in one of the Alien communication devices at the Crash Site in Roswell, N.M. [To further clarify this point: Supposedly, Bell Labs first announced it was composed of 'Germanium', like the old rectifier diode, so as to protect the Silicon formula from industrial espionage, until it could get its 1948 patents filed. Once filed and granted as "unique", "originally authored" and approved, the patents became the basis for Bell controlling the Transistor for about the first 15 years of its existence. Those who used it, had to pay some form of royalty to Bell. ] It has allegedly been reported that it took a year or more for Bell Labs to then figure out how to commercially produce the miracle devices. Reportedly, subsequent technology obtained over the course of the next 10 years by Bell Labs, from the pieces of the wreck delivered to them by the DoD, included the Laser, enhanced solid state circuit components, large scale switching control systems and high definition imaging devices... [ACC has learned through investigation that: Anti Trust suits filed against the Bell System by the Department of Justice in the 50's and the 70's, may have delayed the introduction of many of the refinements of the Transistor, and the Integrated Circuit's manufacture - forcing the Bell System to use outside companies to sell its research in commercial form. Perhaps this might suggest that the alleged alien artifacts had to be kept hidden for this reason as well? Perhaps, even now, after the breakup of the Bell System, there may continue to be unintroduced marvels. We don't know if the story is true, but if it is: In whose hands are they kept? ] Some devices from the downed Alien spacecraft, not fully understood to this day, allegedly include a high energy microwave amplifier that has the secondary effect of decomposing solid objects into their molecular components, a form of circuitry that runs on other than electronic power: using particles thought to have very short half-lifes in the natural universe ("muons"), and a huge induction generator-like coil system some 50 feet in diameter which appears to implement part of some aspect of the vehicle's ability to perform unique flying characteristics and aerobatics - some think it might be a "gravity nullifying" device. ACC has recently received numerous requests for information about whether the Transistor was evolved as a Military device during World War II. According to several documentary films we reviewed, devices used by the Military didn't reflect the existence of the Transistor until well into the 50's. Historians note that the all important 'Proximity Fuse' used in anti-aircraft weapons throughout World War II and up through the Koren War in the 50's, still used Miniature Vacuum Tube Circuitry developed by Sylvania Corporation and AT&T for use in Hearing Aids. Had the transistor existed during World War II, as AT&T implies in its public relations about the Transistor, would not AT&T have been the first to put it to use in the task of shooting down Japanese aircraft bombing US Naval Craft? Soviet technology of the time, in spite of its advanced state, still used Miniature Vacuum Tubes right up until the 70's... What prevented the Soviets from being able to perfect 'high yields' in efforts to duplicate the Transistor? Could it have been, simply, secrets possessed by Bell Labs and Western Electric from 1951, that, the Russians, without an Alien Craft or debris from Roswell of their own at the time, were simply UNABLE to figure it all out through sheer Soviet Research power? These are all very interesting questions! Rumors have been presented to us in EMAIL and by phone, since we first published this article, suggesting that the alleged alien devices taken from Roswell, hidden away under control of Bell Labs and a secret operating group controlling the "Manhatten Project" (which produced the Nuclear Bomb, and maintained a facility near the alleged Roswell crash site) had formed a strategic alliance to control the dissemination of technology like the Transistor 'from the private sector'. And, it has been suggested to American, that the auspices of the power of the Bell System - a company so large and so powerful, that the US Department of Justice and the Federal Courts broke Bell apart in 1981 'in the interest and the spirit of Free Competition', has resuolted in a remarkable competitive edge among AT&T related companies, even today. Was that 'competitive technological edge' -- privileged access to Alien Technologies? Many members of the public have asked: Who keeps hunting down the 'leaks' about it all, and squashing them? Email writers, authors, callers and members of the Investigations community have all suggested the allegation that the US Government is keeping it all a secret. It has been suggested that AT&T and other companies are working TOGETHER to proliferate knowledge from the debris, for commercial purposes. Some have asked us: "Have they organized a strategic marketing network that creates the cover stories needed to develop markets for the technology, as they commercialize it? Did they somehow get back in TOUCH with the Aliens? Doesn't the Public deserve the right to know what happened with the alleged Roswell Space Craft?" International emailers have written us and asked "Why is the US Government hiding the Truth?" and "Were the United States so advanced, it would have won the Viet Nam war, obviously, it had to be deriving its technology from an outside source!" (This last one was from a writer in Italy...) After ACC's first publication of this article, several members of the Extraterrestrial Investigations community interested in Alien Space Visits, approached us and told us about a "Lieutenant Colonel Corso" who supposedly wrote a book about the artifacts being disseminated to Bell Labs. We haven't read it, but we have been told it pretty much appears to coincide with the above story, which was related to us by a Defense Communications Consultant who had access to the people at Bell Labs who he said were involved with the alleged "alien artifacts". It is remarkable that TWO INDEPENDENT SOURCES are saying pretty much the same thing about Bell Labs and the Transistor and the alleged Roswell, New Mexico crash of an Alien Spacecraft. Since the time that Col. Corso was identified to American, new information, unconfirmed, has surfaced and been presented to us. Two people who wrote to us, claimed their fathers worked for Bell Labs, have identified to us, by unconfirmable email reports, that a parent employed by the Labs had taken them to see a "UFO" when they were very young of age, telling them that the "UFO" was being studied by the Labs and that they and the Air Force were going to try to learn to fly it "someday". The stories, of course, are at this time, unconfirmed and may be dramatizations or inaccurate. However, the email letters do appear quite believable. Others have written, insisting that the Transistor is really just the outgrowth of prior research into Germanium Diodes. Could this be true, or is it all just a 'smokescreen' intended to mislead the public? If true, is AT&T still trying to cover it all up? Or would it, in fact, not be beneficial to AT&T to reveal these secrets of 50 years ago, if they are true? Someone has even recently claimed that a 'lab notebook' from the 40's, tends to corroborate our story, as it refers to a plan to deliberately cover up the effort to reverse-engineer alien technology, by creating a 'public relations' effort at Bell Labs. Again, we can neither confirm nor deny this report. __________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Technology Pages http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp \______________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze From: RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates] Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 00:15:57 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 02:41:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze In a message dated 97-09-18 12:39:41 EDT, you write: > From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:50:04 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MUFON Journal Muses > > From: RGates8254@aol.com > > Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:37:52 -0400 (EDT) > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MUFON Journal Muses > > In a message dated 97-09-16 02:39:40 EDT, you write: > > > Mr. Stacy: > > > How many words would you like for the article proving Ed Walters > > > hoaxed his photos? > > > Barbara > > Opinion pieces go on OPed pages or letters to the editor. > > cheers, > > Robert > Sorry, but this has nothing to do with opinion. > BB What you are really doing is unloading your "interpretation" of Gulf Breeze based upon information you received. For example the same documented facts that UFO researchers interpret to support their accounts of Roswell are also interpreted by others to support their pet accounts, which at times are at total odds. The Kennedy Assassination is another case in point. 40 books by 40 experts with their interpretation of the facts which dovetails nicely with "their" pet theory. Kind of like the guy in Texas who claimed that a particular document was proof that Kennedy was shot by the Feds. When the rest of the story came out, the FBI agent making the report in fact said in the report that he was only repeating a story that he heard over the Dallas radio station. One of the posts I saw was claiming that you had some kind of signed statement by Ed Walters -- which even if true we must also consider under what "conditions" Ed signed the statement, if indeed he did. We have notorized sworn signed statements from some Roswell witnesses, who later on turned around and allegedly swore out and signed a new statement about the location of the crash site. The story was that on the 2nd sworn statement had a profit motive basis. Again under what conditions were the statements signed under? Bottom line is what interpretation you present and the BASIS for that interpretation. If the BASIS is well documented, your story may be credible. IF the BASIS withstands the test of time and examination, then your interpretation will be even more credible BUT not likely to be the last word. As always I look forward to seeing this much talked about cast-in-stone-without-a-doubt evidence/proof that Gulf Breeze was a hoax. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: 'Rods'? From: xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:54:50 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 02:44:45 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? >>Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 10:24:14 -0400 >>From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Rods'? >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> >>>Subject: re: UFO UpDate: 'Rods'? >>>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 13:20:23 -0700 >>Mark, >>I think you are right. The stills and videos I've seen so >>far of these "rods" lead me to believe that we should be >>calling them bugs instead of rods. >>Bob To the List Its time I enter this silly debate on Rods, UFOs, and Bugs. It appears some cheap shots have been directly towards Jose, in order to have something to talk about on this list. You can post all the math and jargon you please, but it means nothing unless you have actually walked in these shoes. For all of you who claim to have some "expert" opinion on his videotapes, you should post your facts on a URL like Jose, John Bro, Tim Edwards, and myself have before you take cheap shots at the evidence. Where are your .jpg stills to disprove this? Where are your videos and photos to debunk all of this hard work? I find none of them online. I have shot over 110 hours of video and SHVS tape of the "Solar technique" devised by John Bro and Tim Edwards. I know more about this than any of you claiming you can solve it in a weekend. I spent thousands of dollars a over 1 year taping this technique. I still have no conclusive answers on what these objects are. Some are bugs. Some are spider webs, others are unidenitfied bugs never discovered. Still other objects are "clearly" flying into clouds and are large objects. These objects couldn't have been bugs or insects. They were real objects of a large size to register on video at the size they were over 3 miles away. I have very clear SVHS tape showing these objects moving thru clouds. It's been on the net for over 1 year now. We post everything we have. Tim Edwards shot his "clyinder" footage while it was near the Sun. If you bothered to ever watch the sky you might see a "Rod" with the naked eye. I have seen them. It appears as a rapid blur of a brown object moving by very quickly and impossible to follow with a videocamera. Tapes of these objects are accidental. There are dozens of people who have repeated this experiment and came up with the same results. This would make the "Technique" scientific. All of the claims to dismiss it havn't been reported online as images to this date. Nobody dismissing it has been able to post their results as the others did willingly. If you want to look at the "Solar UFOs" then here it is. All it takes is just one of these images to represent a actual UFO to validate the claim of shooting into sun. If you want to look into these images then copy and paste these URLs into your Web broswer. http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/chapterhouse/tompics1.htm http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/chapterhouse/april5/april596.htm http://www.blackvault.com/johnbro.html http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/chapterhouse/edpage/edpage.htm My Background: For the record. I have taped over 150 hours of videotape footage. Not every single minute or every hour contains a UFO. Although I do see them and tape the objects from time to time. I shot most of my videotape of the "Technique". I have a considerable amount of videotape to prove there is more to this than just "bugs". I have made it a point to investigate and persue any UFO activity in the state of Arizona. No matter what the case maybe. I have investigated the "John Bro Techinque", Hockey Pucks, Triangular craft, and the Orange objects of the "Phoenix Sightings". All of this information is posted immediately on the internet for all to see. Before any of you start a fight with me. I challenge you to check out each of the four sites and prove to the list all are bugs and insects. Otherwise, skywatch, investigate and prove it to yourselves, before you post on something you know little about. Tom King, Skywatcher Arizona Skywatch director AZ Skywatch http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/skywatch/skywatch.htm OVNI Chapterhouse at http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/ufovideo.htm Search for other documents from or mentioning: xalium | 76750.2717 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:55:50 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:24:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention > From: "WHITE" <mjawhite@digitaldune.net> [John White] > Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 14:00:33 -0700 > Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:36:19 -0400 > Subject: Re: Documentation of the transistor's invention > All of the above is interesting material, and it > was fairly well-known when Corso wrote his book. > Why would he ignore it? In other words, although it is true that > the many, many websites, encyclopedias, dictionaries of > technical terms, physics textbooks, electrical engineering > textbooks, handbooks, etc., merely direct us to good > source material on the history of transistors, other than the fact > that > the materials are old or out of print or just hard to obtain, they > are out there somewhere, and someone will get them, review them, > and if they are List members, post them. > It is hard to fathom why someone with Corso's background would make an > allegation which may be checked rather easily for accuracy. (The List > members are coming up with more and more information, > each piece leading to another.) > We presume that military professionals like > those with Corso's background don't fib for the fun of it. That they > will fib is not unheard of, but there has to be a mighty good reason > for it. > I would hate to think that he fibbed to make a buck, and I would be > even more chagrined to think that the quality of our military > mentality > was such that a person from that environment offered as an indicator > of military thinking an ignorance of the ability of ordinary, > every-day folks to check out the accuracy of the allegations. > Hubris is a mild word for that. I agree John, taking refuge in the belief that Corso lied to make some money from sales of his book is a simple excuse not to investigate matter. In my mind, his credentials and military stature alone are enough to warrant a detailed investigation of his story but even beyond that is the fact that his story is easier to investigate than some of the cryptic stories of the past. For this reason, it may be seen as irresponsible for the research community to ignore an investigation into his claims. If Corso wrote a book about some classified UFO project that happened X number of years ago that was allegedly maintained and buried down some deep dark military hole with no visible potential for verification, than an investigation would be far less likely to yield any results and would almost be rendered moot. Corso's story is much further into the open than we're used to seeing which enhances the opportunity to investigate it. As Corso's story has elements that are visible in American corporate history with a number of technology corporations that he's cited, I would say that verifications and/or debasements will be forthcoming sooner rather than later. It occurrs to me that if Corso decided to fabricate this whole story he is far less intelligent than people are giving him credit for because he must've realized that researchers would investigate his claims and expose him as a fraud. If we are able to show that certain elements of his story are false than doubts about his story as a whole will earn justification as we've normally done with witness testimony that did not stand up to scrutiny in the past. All information that detracts from Corso's claims should be posted as well as information that may support them. Invesitgations aside, the only way that Corso would be able to bolster his credibility now is to get his Pentagon buddies "in the know" past or present that support his story and blow it open on 20/20 or some other repected news magazine. Would it be safe to say this is unlikely? Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: Tom's Videos and Rods From: mdavis@ccsmtp.glycomed.COM (Davis, Michael) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 97 12:42:19 pst Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:15:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Tom's Videos and Rods >From: xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:54:50 EST >Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 02:44:45 -0400 >Subject: Re: 'Rods'? >If you want to look into these images then copy and paste these >URLs into your Web broswer. >http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/chapterhouse/tompics1.htm >http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/chapterhouse/april5/april596.htm >http://www.blackvault.com/johnbro.html >http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/chapterhouse/edpage/edpage.htm Hmmmm, Tom, good stuff! The first link, I think, is pretty darn impressive. Makes me want to borrow a video camera and try it out. Does anyone else see a striking resemblance between Jon Bro's stills and Jose's 'rods'? They seem quite similar to me. some of John Bro's stills seem to show motion blur in the shape of a 'cork screw' which on first impulse resembles a helicopter rotor, unfortunate that the body of the object is unfocused. Looks like a shutter speed issue? Would it be worthwhile to try the following -- I believe that some telescopes can be fitted with an adapter for 35mm still camera. Now that there is an apparently consistent technique or method of capturing these objects on film, an effort must be made to increase the shutter speeds and get better close-ups; super telephoto lenses, super high-speed cameras, etc. combined with triangulation techniques are in order! Opinions? Thanks, Michael Davis mdavis@glycomed.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: 'Rods'? - In Answer to all From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 97 20:48:30 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:19:15 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? - In Answer to all >From: rjke@webtv.net (Jose and Karen Escamilla) >Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:21:26 -0600 >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: 'Rods'? - In Answer to all >In reply to: Bob, Mark, Roger, Burt, Jim and others... >Without getting into any heated arguements, I really want to focus on >the Rods phenomena, and I will put all insulting and demeaning words >aside in this message. With the exception of Roger, who is making a >direct accuasation that I'm hoaxing all this for money..... I won't >even begin to go there. Jose. When you came around a couple of years ago with this "rods" thing, I remember it was on Compuserve... We butted heads then. Either you or the guy who was one of the first to see your work (he was as I recall with MUFON... and really believed in it) said that you were selling videos of the rods to help pay off the new equipment you bought... and that you were starting a film production business... to me I immediately put on my skeptic hat and said... I wonder if this all means he's pulling the wool over our eyes with these "rods". Well about two years later... I see you here... and see your "Roswell Rods" page... I wonder why Roswell? Your page has your business there... and all the rods stuff... and all your publicity over the past two years or so... that these rods have done for you... Add in the fact that you and Karen have expertise in Photography and computer animation.... It's just my skeptic hat still on... I am only telling you what I perceive not what I necessarily believe. After all, you may be onto a great discovery, and as all great discovers of their times... they had their skeptics and disbelievers... but I would suggest that somehow you get Bob Shell on your side... and see if he can validate your work... he really is an expert... although he does like to have fun here... at others' cost at times... But one more suggestion... if you can see rods with a camera, then there is no reason that you cannot catch one of these things and let an expert analyze it. I wish you the best of luck... and just remember you will always have skeptics and disbelievers... I may end up believing in you and your rods... Roger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: Cancellation of all military training missions From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 08:59:33 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:46:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Cancellation of all military training missions >From: CFQ2@aol.com [Charles F. Quinn] >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:27:04 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Cancellation of all military training missions by Pentagon SNIPaRootie >This story won't go away. Allegedly two(2) military craft >"collide" over the South Atlantic off the coast of Angola--- > in broad daylight. An American miltary plane hit a German military plane. It was confirmed on South African TV news last night that the planes COLLIDED HEAD ON! For some reason, there is a 2- or 3-star US Army General (I'll post his name if I see it again) in charge of the recovery, and it would seem that they need to recover the debris come hell or high water....there's somebody more important on that wreck than a couple of poor dead guys, I'd say. Jakes E. Louw louwje@telkom.co.za +27 12 311-2668 082 923 6144
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 ACC - Addendum 6 From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 00:15:21 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:54:29 -0400 Subject: ACC - Addendum 6 Things are changing a bit with the American Computer Co. investigation. Some of the new developments have influenced me to view the entire matter with an increased sense of caution. Linda Howe reported some follow up information that she received from CEO Jack Shulman in her recorded conversation with him over the phone Sunday night on Dreamland. I believe the transcript of that conversation was posted here. Real Audio link: http://ww2.audionet.com/artbell/abell/9709/ab0914.ram Michael Lindemann did a somewhat liberal report on the ACC situation on Jeff Rense's radio show as well: Real Audio link: http://www.audionet.com/shows/endoftheline/9709/end0917.ram The following information about the fax and consultant came from Jack Shulman to me directly: To --> American Computer" was on the fax header line. Nothing Else was on that line. (The one that a Fax Machine prints on the top margin of a FAX) Shulman spoke with the Duty Officer at the Central Intellignce Agency about the fax who told him that the "Re" line's content, naming a particular 'Air Force' sounding 'thing', was the same name as a known Air Force 'asset' - referring to, presumably, a satellite or platform by that name ( it is conceivable that the origin was a satellite but Shulman will not release that information either way). Shulman contacted Langley AFB, who asked him to secure the fax, and that they would relay the message to the appropriate party. The next day or two, Shulman contacted them, and he contacted the Pentagon, but no one came out to retrieve the fax. That weekend, the offices were broken into and appear to have been searched. The following week, when Shulman reported the break-in to the AF, they had a coordinator from Maguire call him, then two OSI Investigators came to ACC and took statements and 'investigated', taking the fax with them, leaving behind a receipt. The Consultant was read a part of the fax ACC received, and identified the 'Asset' as one belonging to the Air Force, that had been knocked off line on or about March 13 co-incident to the time frame of the Arizona sightings. He had learned that it had been knocked off line from a client OTHER THAN the US Government, and so, accordingly, that is not subject to his non-disclosure agreement and Security Clearance, also on account of the fact that that information is, among contractors in the Defense Communications area, already 'public domain knowledge'. Linda Howe told me that Shulman was very disturbed by the issue with the fax, very concerned about it. The Consultant works for the DOD on satellite communication systems and has a Highest Level Security clearance. He has the approval of his client to release the information that ACC has provided, as it was mostly derived from his employment at OTHER THAN the US Government. He has a non-disclosure agreement with the US Government, and hence, can not release any information that he has received from the US Government, per se, nor anything that he reasonably believes would compromise National Security. He does not believe the information he provided ACC would do so, however, he does believe a small amount of the information ACC has developed independently, without stating what, may do so. All the information that he's provided about Bell labs up until now is not information that his employers should be too concerned about because he retrieved it independant of his employment and would therefore not be bound by secrecy regulations. As a side note Shulman said: The consultant knows considerably more than is presented on ACC's website, but simply can not share any information that would violate his clearances; however, he is also prohibited from releasing 'disinformation' due to his extreme degree of clearance, as it would assumed to be true by other than the public, due to his professional standing. in order to avoid attracting further competitive slander and bricking, into the UFO and Extraterrestrial Investigations arena, Shulman may shortly excuse himself from further involvement in this entire affair. I've lost contact with Bob Wolf. I don't know what's up with this guy. He sounded nervous in his last e-mail to me where he stated: "Sorry, I really hated lying to you, but I didn't want to share the story about my visit to Bell Labs in Holmdel and to Sarnoff in Penns Neck, NJ. Sorry, and my apologies - its not my normal thing. I had to have more time to formulate what I discovered. It's remarkable. Sarnoff has library evidence that supports Corso and ACC. AT&T is afraid to deny the ACC story." Bob has not since acknowledged any of my e-mail responses. Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 UFOSearch #9: part 4d - The Streiber Scenario and From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:01:30 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:29:38 -0400 Subject: UFOSearch #9: part 4d - The Streiber Scenario and This is part 4d of the ninth essay by UFOSearch. This is the final part of the essay. We apologize for the endless proliferation of parts that occurred during the series; however, this was necessitated by email distribution and the circumstance of watching this essay grow far beyond the original intent. The titles and parts of the complete essay are: UFOSearch #9: Science, Counterintelligence And UFOs Part One - Abstract and Introduction Part Two - Counterintelligence And UFO Analysis Part Three - The Counterintelligence Use Of Research And Analysis In Small-Scale UFO Investigations Part Four 4a - Evaluating UFO Scenarios Using Counterintelligence 4b - UFO Scenario Analysis: THE KEYHOE SCENARIO 4c - The Lear Scenario And UFO History 4c-1 The Lear Scenario: Introduction and Background 4c-2 The Lear Scenario: Analysis 4c-3 The Lear Scenario: Notes To Section 4c 4d - The Streiber Scenario and The Future of The UFO NOTE: These essays are posted with the permission of the author, Val Germann. If you would like tocorrespond with him I have arranged a temporary internet email address that will forward the correspondence to him. This is not a permanent email address. The address is: ufosearch@pipeline.com Commentary: We would like to thank the many dozens of people who corresponded with us through private email, this has been most gratifying. With the publication of this, the last part of the essay our "Fearless Ufologist" (TM) will escort us down more of the lesser traveled paths in ufology. Yet our journey has really just started, this fall UFOSearch will have a new web site presence: UFOSearch - CounterIntelligence and UFOs Featuring a monthly column, essays - new and old, a discussion forum, a Guide the UFO Phenomenon and an introduction to Counterintelligence. Hope you'll visit with us there. Gary Alevy (c) 1997 --------------------------------------------------------------- UFOSearch Columbia, Missouri Science, Counterintelligence And UFOs Part 4d: The Strieber Scenario And The Future Of The UFO Val Germann (c)1997 Introduction The acronym "UFO" says it all: "ufology" is about things, objects, that is, TECHNOLOGY, technical things flying around in the sky. It's all about MACHINES and how they fly, not really about who might be flying them and what they might be doing here. However, a little reflection should reveal that the machines are purely secondary, or even tertiary, behind the problems of "who" is "flying" them and what in heaven's name "they" might be DOING here, on Earth, to US, right now! Ivan Sanderson, previously cited, spoke of this thirty years ago, saying that various "officials" were happy to talk about things in the sky but when the "UFO" was brought down to Earth these same people clamed up immediately. That is, as long as "flying saucers" were just that, mysterious "vehicles" providing snappy dinner conversation, only a few people got upset. But let the questioner try to get some information on what might be happening ON THE GROUND, and things would get very dicey very fast. [101] And it's about the same today, with each "investigator" drawing a line in the dirt and saying, "This far and NO farther," creating a situation where huge blind spots seem to exist everywhere you look. This ufologist won't look at anything except "sightings" in the sky, this one won't even THINK about "crashes," and this other one is repelled by abductions and won't have anything to do with them. And as for "mutilations" and so-called "conspiracy theories," well, those are off-limits to nearly all in the field. The main issue seems to be one of CONTROL, with many in ufology wanting to have it their way in a UFO game that is seen as interesting without being threatening. That is, the possible advent of "others" from beyond is going to be treated the same way that something like a "cold-fusion" breakthrough would be, in a "Gee Whiz, isn't this interesting!" sort of way. Well, that isn't even CLOSE to being adequate if "others" really ARE here messing around on Earth today. That is a scary thought, folks, and to deny and downplay that is intellectual dishonesty. The proper reaction IS fear and caution, along with a burning desire to see ALL of the evidence in an effort to determine what this "other" intelligence might be doing, to US, on Earth, NOW. Almost from the beginning "ufology" has been, in my opinion, just "horsing around," ignoring the real issues by endlessly chasing after lights in the sky and piling up reports of same. In the defense of the non-professionals it must be pointed out that the top dogs have in the main done all they could to encourage this sort of time wasting, through their ridicule and denial of nearly any information beyond a "nuts and bolts" view of the problem. Some of this has likely been due to a combination of fear and denial, a natural human reaction to a strange situation. But some of it has been something else entirely. >From the beginning you can see it, the desire of nearly everyone visible in the field to keep everyone looking up, "watching the sky," because that's where "they" were doing whatever it was that they were doing. But this was nonsense from the start and it is amazing that no one has ever been called on it. Well, I'm calling many of you on it now: Many of you are wasting your time piling up those piles of "sightings." The "proof" you seem to want has existed for FOUR DECADES if you simply will accept it and move on! But, no, today's ufology seems to want to reinvent the stone axe for the umpteenth time. Why? Because many seem to want is CONTROL, control over the "UFO" in the minds of others. This is a huge scourge in "ufology" but it is true most of all for "the government" and the elites behind it. No matter what the true situation these elites want the ILLUSION of CONTROL to exist in the minds of their rank and file. It is this factor that explains many of the leaks about secret government programs and such. That is, whether or not these programs REALLY exist is quite beside the point. The "government" wants some to THINK they exist and that they have given "the government" superior, secret information that puts them IN CONTROL, more or less, of the situation. The greatest secret of all is that our government and elites are NOT in CONTROL of anything, not at all. And it is this that they cannot stand. If there is some sort of "deal" it is a very unequal one, with our top dogs very much the "underdogs" in comparison with THEM. And Captain Kirk isn't going out into the galaxy copulating with dozens of alien women. No, rather the reverse might be true, something that our power-driven, male-dominated system can not contemplate at all. Yes, let's all get back to thinking about UFOs as a "machine problem." That's a lot better, isn't it? As the years have gone by and the program being run by these "others" has gained momentum, the side-show has had to be enhanced and now we are all worried about whether or not some secret document is real and whether or not some vehicle "crashed" at Roswell. Folks, it's all a dodge, even if it's true. It's not really important, and everyone "in on" the true situation KNOWS this. The machines are window dressing. This is why the KEYHOE, LEAR and STREIBER scenarios interest me. They at least TRY to explain what is going on with "UFOs" in a non-machine context. I like this because I don't really give a rat's rear end WHAT technology these "others" might be using -- except as it might impinge upon human beings, that is, upon me and upon mine. And to illustrate this let me relate what I call the "Lake Victoria Motorboat Story." [102] It goes like this: Beginning in the 1950s, the fishermen of Lake Victoria, who had been successful at their craft since time immemorial, were given motorboats (under U.S. auspices) so they could catch more fish and perhaps escape the "poverty" in which they then lived. Never mind that the "poverty" in which they lived was in fact fairly comfortable for them. Yes, they had to work pretty hard but that work was episodic and gave them time in between for what we in the West call "leisure," which to them was time to raise their children and perform the cultural activities that bound their group together, thus guaranteeing their continued existence. These fishermen accepted the boats, which were FREE, in the beginning, and the FREE (in the beginning) fuel to run them, because there was no doubt that the boats were faster and did in fact allow them to catch more fish. And they had a simple faith in the people who gave them the boats, that those people were really trying to HELP the fishermen, that they really had the interests of the fishermen at heart and those boats would be an unalloyed benefit to them and their families. Well, what has happened? I think you can guess. After a while the boats and fuel stopped being free and had to be paid for with convertible currency, which required someone to either sell fish on the commercial market or "go to work" in the Western sense. So, more fish had to be caught than before and some of the young fishermen had to go to the city and find work. And, of course, before long fewer and fewer youngsters wanted to build or sail the "old-style" boat and so the skills that allowed such craft to be built were allowed to deteriorate. Before long the young men were not interested in the "old culture" at all and began to wear loud shirts and take transistor radios with them as they roared out of their villages to fish with their motorized boats. The Western advisors smiled as "progress" worked in its magic way. At the same time, more fish eventually meant more fishermen and within twenty years or so the lake began to be over fished, a situation which has reached crisis proportions today. We won't mention the pollution that goes along with oil, gas and large, two-stroke motors exhausting into the water. No matter, there is now little doubt that in another twenty years there will be few reasonable-sized fish to catch on Lake Victoria, and the culture of the fishermen (and women), which has existed for centuries, will have been destroyed. And all because we in the West wanted to "help" them! With such "friends," who needs enemies!? You see, those fishermen had no idea how an outboard motor worked or how an aluminum boat was made. And they didn't care, either. They saw how the stuff did the job and so they began to use it, lock, stock and barrel, or in this case: boat, motor and fuel. Their faith in the White Man precluded any thoughtful examination of what it might mean in the long run to be at the far end of a five-thousand-mile supply line that originated in Florida and was fueled by the U.S. dollar. No one ever told them the effects of that and they had no way to know -- and they were not capable of resisting those motorboats. And now they are going to pay. So, don't get me wrong, I think the technical end of the UFO is important, but only because of the possible effects it might have on us and on our culture. This is doubly true when we begin to talk about MEDICAL TECHNOLOGY, which is now part and parcel of the UFO phenomenon, at least for some. You see, a new, off- planet "outboard motor" for 21st century humanity is bad enough to contemplate. But something REALLY new in the field of say, human reproduction, well, that puts anything purely "technical" in the shade. And this gets us to THE STRIEBER SCENARIO. THE STRIEBER SCENARIO AND THE USES OF "FICTION" Once again the technique will be to first set my comments inside quotes from a book in this case, Whitley Strieber's 1989 novel MAJESTIC [103]. Then I will take a look at Strieber's 1995 book BREAKTHROUGH [104] for a full treatment of the situation he seems to think exists. In MAJESTIC we have references to more "leaks" from a government agent, this time a long-service officer who is dying and in possession of many TOP SECRET documents. In BREAKTHROUGH, the "government" is involved as well but in a different way, as impeding these "others" in bringing a golden age to us peasants, an age of "hyperconsciousness" that might seem to many to be the New Age equivalent of perpetual motion. "But MAJESTIC is just a novel," many say, "How can you take anything in it seriously?" Well, that is a good question, and the answer is that in many cases a so-called fiction book is in fact much like an Office of Strategic Services (OSS) "scenario" produced by a person who has every reason to know what he is talking about. You see, "fiction" is often what an author resorts to when he can't publish the information straight, something that has happened even to me. Some of the contents of MAJESTIC hit me very hard and the only way I could deal with them was through a "story." *** An Semester To Remember [105] *** (1) Hal Johnson had just come out of the darkroom with a print (wow, was this new resin-coated paper great!) when he saw her, camera bag over her shoulder, blond, dressed all in black. Before he could actually think she was talking. "Are you Hal?" she asked. The print was dripping water on the floor, on his shoes. He smelled like hypo and his eyes were still adjusting to the light of the hallway. She was very nice looking. "Yes, that's me," he said, "sorry about this mess." She looked at the print. It was an attempted solarization of a DC-9 taking off from Municipal Airport in Kansas City. "I want to take pictures for the paper," she said. She had a very expensive Nikon FB-6 bag. Hal had an FB-5. Hers was only the second other bag in the BF series Hal had actually seen carried by anyone. They were very expensive and not many working stiffs carried them. Usually it was doctors who had them. Hal said, "Sure, there's lots to do. You're ahead of the game because I haven't even run an ad yet." The semester had just started and Hal had just got the chief photographer's job for the University newspaper. It looked like a bear of a position. "I'm headed out right now to shoot a football practice," Hal said, "Want to go?" She said, "Sure." To Hal's amazement she had in her FB-6 one Nikon F2 body with two lenses -- a 24mm super wide angle and a 300mm super telephoto. . .the two lenses Hal needed to complete the set of lenses he had, which extended from 35mm to 200mm. Hal thought that was odd. . .no photographer he had yet met owned such a strange combination of lenses. It was almost like. . . The shoot at the practice went very well and pretty soon Hal and Anne, that turned out to be her name, became the shooting team for the PANTHER, the university's student newspaper. They began to spend a lot of time together, a lot of time, and Hal, who was just coming off the messy end of a long-term relation- ship, took a while to realize that Anne was attracted to him. But once things got going they moved with amazing speed and when the inevitable finally happened Hal was, well, transported. He had never felt such emotions, had never WANTED any girl as much as he wanted Anne. And she was so absolutely calm, so focussed on him, he was amazed and flattered by that. As a result he was not jealous, not worried about her at all that way. For the rest of the semester Hal and Anne took photographs and made love. Then, in May, she said she was leaving school, going home. And the way she said it, the finality of it, Hal knew he wasn't in the picture, not at all. He was sad, upset, surprised, but not crushed the he had been before. He accepted it stoically, to his own amazement. And when he got a last letter from her, post- marked Los Alamos, New Mexico, he read it without a tear. (2) Anne Howard's father, James Howard, looked at the picture of Hal that had been handed to him by the director. "So, she liked this guy, is that right?" James was, as usual, upset, and the bitterness and resentment in his voice was palpable. "Yes, she liked him quite a lot," the director said. "As much as she is repulsed at what she has to do she really had a wonderful time for a while. We all know how difficult this business is for her. She was feeling tremendous guilt for so many reasons. All of the project people thought this guy was actually in love with Anne and maybe that went both ways. This one has been especially hard on us all." The director was wringing his hands. James Howard was almost shaking now. "Are you going to see THEM again soon?" he said. His eyes would not focus. "Yes," the director said, "At the same relative time. You know how much we hate this. But this could be the last time." James Howard thought of the submachine gun he had just bought and said, "I hope to God you're right, for all our sakes." On the way home the director was on the scrambled phone to his headquarters. "I want that house watched and I want Anne under 24-hour protection. Understand!" Old friend or no, he was not going to let James Howard mess up this thing now. The child was going to be born and it was going to be delivered, period. (3) Morgan looked into the zone and swore. What in hell were they putting in there now? Do they really expect me to figure out what on God's Earth that thing is? An hour later he had put on a suit and walked into the zone. He could see his contact there, in the haze, looking at him with THAT look. It was all Morgan could do to keep from turning and running. "God," he thought, "I would die if I had to stay in here more than five minutes!" The alien looked at him and said, "We think you will really like this one." And then it was gone, back into the haze. Morgan looked at the document that the alien had handed to him. Written on it, in plain English, were the words "RNA/DNA Modification." Morgan's head hurt. "I should blow this whole project up," he thought. "This is not right!" But he turned and left the zone, five minutes later handing the document to the director. (4) As the alien ship gained space Anne Howard cradled her baby and looked across the compartment at Hal, unconscious and lying on the floor. That was a nasty bruise! They said she could have two years with John, that was her name for her newest baby, but that was all. But the next one, well, that one was hers. [End] So, how did you like that little bagatelle, huh? Is it true? Well, some of it is while some of it is what I think MIGHT be true, for reasons I have no intention of putting on a public forum. Why do I reproduce it here? Because I want some of my readers to THINK about some things they might not have thought about before, to open up a little. . .or maybe a lot. Is anything in MAJESTIC "true?" It's possible, and you have already seen why one reason why I can say that. Our world is a very complicated place, and for many human beings not a very nice one. We here in the West are used to having it good, used to the house, the boat and the car, to yearly vacations to sunshiny spots where little brown people cater to our every whim. We pay $5,000 for a Caribbean cruise and come back amazed at how good it all was. What can be wrong in a world like that? Well, very little, on the surface. But as we all should know by now, surface appearances can be totally deceiving. A Look At Strieber's MAJESTIC MAJESTIC is a novelization of Strieber's experiences with the UFO phenomenon and the genesis of it may have been described in his 1988 book TRANSFORMATION [106]. A "film maker" spent a day with Strieber in the mid-1980s, telling of his experiences trying to make a documentary on UFOs. Someone from the "Air Force" had let the film maker see a set of documents supposedly laying out "the facts" about UFOs. These "documents" must have had a strong resemblance to the "MJ-12" information and to the material John Lear and others would begin talking about in 1987-88. And then there were also resemblances to things that Strieber felt were personal to him (in the same way that MAJESTIC would so disturb me several years later). Strieber went on a binge of research into the UFO after talking to the film maker and realizing that he had strange connections to the "UFO Phenomenon." Soon after these events came the events that later became the best-selling book COMMUNION. [107] MAJESTIC is the story of how "contact" with "visitors" has become a most secret Secret. It is also an explanation of Strieber's view of that contact. At first glance, of course, it is too fantastic to even consider. It is very easy to dismiss. But what if some of it's true, or very near the truth? Strieber seems to be saying that these "visitors" are in the process of creating a new "hybrid race" of half-human beings whose purpose is unknown. Strieber says that EACH of us will meet these visitors face to face when the time is right, that they are "contacting" us on many levels. Finally, Strieber states that the "visitors" can move "souls" to genetically altered human fetuses as well as "artificial" human bodies, a kind of medical technology we can only dream about, or have nightmares about, take your pick. As you have seen, this book become very important to me in the 1989-90 period. That is, there came a time when MAJESTIC made my blood run cold. BEGIN ANALYSIS ** Strieber's text from MAJESTIC inside { } brackets ** ** My comments inside [ ] brackets ** P. 17 - {"When we called them terrible, that is what they became. We have become lost on our long journey back to the woods. When we detonated atomic bombs over Hiroshima and Nagasaki we distorted history, setting ourselves on a path that leads not to the forest but to extinction."} [It seems that our post-war top dogs interpreted the advent of "others" as a hostile act, as per Corso, [108] if you read his new book carefully. But how are they "hostile" since we all seem to be more or less still here some 50 years later? In an interview not long after this book appeared Strieber said the "visitors" (his word) were running a very deep disinformation campaign, one using our own military and intelligence people against humanity at large, but for our ultimate good, of course. That is, while our economic and military elites have been wasting their time with MAJIC beans and "crashed flying saucers," these "others" have been "contacting" us individually, bypassing the institutions in our culture that would give meaning to such enormous events, institutions owned and/or controlled by these same elites. Never mind that this technique would provide a new definition for "expensive," especially when you consider that Strieber believes EVERYONE will eventually be directly touched by "THEM," sooner or later. They're doing it like Merrill Lynch says they do it -- one investor at a time! But at what cost?] [And it would have to take a LOT of faith to believe that any of this was "good," providing that you really believed in "others" and that they were here doing things on Earth, right now. What can one make of the "forest" reference? Well, we might remember Einstein's comment when asked what he thought might be the future weapons used to fight a Third World War. Einstein said, "I don't know about the Third World War but I can tell you what the weapons of the Fourth World War will be: sticks and stones."] P. 17 - {"If we surrender to the wind and the rain they will become our saviors. This is the message of the others. They thus represent absolute and total change, the collapse of economic civilization and the end of days. They are freedom, the soul in the open sky."} [Absolute and total change? The collapse of economic civilization? Surrender? Whoa, there! Not bloody likely and "THEY" must know it. Remember the Keyhoe scenario and the Air Force officer who says we would fight to the last ditch if an "alien" group tried to establish itself here. But who is "we?" What if "they" offered a "deal" to trade "technology" for Lebensraum? What would our crypto-Nazi CIA do then? I can guess. They would even hide it from their real bosses, our hereditary elite and the (almost totally NON-Jewish) trans-national bankers. It would be a "deal with the Devil" they would jump to make, one that would offer to give THEM the actual mastery of the planet, if the arrangement were to actually go through!] P. 40 - {"When the history of this era is written, it must certainly be called the Age of Secrets. I will state the matter simply: EVERYTHING IMPORTANT IS CLASSIFIED. Public knowledge has deteriorated into a form of entertainment." } P. 41 - {"Official secrets are the snare of modern life. If you don't know them, you're helpless. If you do, you're trapped.} [Yes, and THEY know this better than we do. Like a praying mantis hypnotizing a grasshopper, these "others" might occupy our betters with TOP SECRET trinkets while doing their REAL work elsewhere. . .to large numbers of US!] P. 86 - {"They were watching him, had been since he was a child. He was their man in Central Intelligence, picked from an early age to do their work."} [Here we have what I earlier had called "The Lear Scenario with bells on!" Once again, see Richard Condon's THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE [109] for how such a horror show might play out!] P. 109 - {"I have reconstructed what happened over the next twelve hours from the reports contained in Will's files. These start in 1947 and end in 1956, when all the members of 2nd Squad were hypnotized to uncover hidden memories. That was the year Dr. Steven Reich discovered that the amnesia induced by the visitors could be broken in this way.} [See THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE for more. Was something like this known from the late 1940s, from the time Secretary Forrestal met his end at Bethesda Naval hospital? His actions just before his death seem to me to mirror what might happen to someone who has just realized he is a contactee! Did others know or suspect?] P. 114 - {"You will be married soon, Jimmy. The union will be with your childhood mate Kathy. Together you will conceive five new ones. The last two of them will be for you, the first three for me. Is this understood?"} [This type of thing broke into ufology about a decade ago. Our culture and its morbid fear of sex have kept this played down yet it likely is at the core of the whole thing. That is, some sort of "reproduction" may be the high purpose of the whole "program." My only question is: "WHOSE reproduction: ours or THEIRS?"] P. 116 - {"A girl came, walking toward him across the broad room. She was wearing a thin summer nightgown with yellow flowers down the front. Tears of recognition sprang to Jimmy's eyes, `Kathy,' he said, `Kathy O'Malley.'"} P. 181 - {A Flush entered her cheeks and her whole body became covered with dampness. This dampness melted certain particles that had been dusted on her in the night, and they released subtle chemicals. She began to smell of an ancient essence."} [Once again, this kind of manipulation is foreign to the "nuts & bolts" world of ufology but it may be the key. The problem is that most of the people in the "field" are hardware-types who are bone ignorant of larger issues. There is a lot more in this section of the book, material that will melt most plastics. Are human beings undergoing some sort of genetic manipulation for reasons unknown, and are "ordinary people" a large part of it?] P. 113 - {"Apparently certain people are leading double lives, unknown even to themselves. They are the facilitators, the ones who help the others with the rest of us, who are much wilder and more difficult to control."} [You are head of counterintelligence for the "UFO Program." What would this mean to you if it should have some basis in fact!? Do you think that such a person might want to have access to those letters in Strieber's files? I think so, as you have read in an earlier section of this series.] [It is here I must include the story my second ex-military source told me in 1989. He said that he had, in effect, lived most of his life with THEM in it, that his mother had been involved with THEM since the 1930s and still "ran errands" for THEM! The lady in question, then in her late '60s, had been frightened for decades by what she knew, yet at the same time was proud to have been "selected" by THEM for the jobs she did. This contact was also the SECOND person to tell me, straight out, that THEY are occasionally to be seen on the streets of our cities and towns, as bizarre as they look on close inspection. But, he said, when they are on the street no one ever looks closely at them -- they have ways of seeing that this does not happen -- unless they WANT it to happen!] P. 168 - {"I at last understood that I wasn't looking at an accidental crash. This disk hadn't crashed at all. It had been put here, and the bodies along with it. It was bait. And we had taken it, and were wriggling on the line. In some murky place our struggles must be ringing a bell. Somebody had heard the sound and grasped the line and set the hook. And now they were going to reel us in."} [In the spring of 1989, before I had seen or even heard about MAJESTIC, I sent a couple of people (including Strieber) a long letter about Roswell and other incidents. In that letter I commented that the "Disc Crashes," including Roswell, were all "staged" to send messages to our elites. I also said that the "release" of information to people like Stringfield was part of a campaign of both information and disinformation. In support of this I made a trip to New Mexico. Then MAJESTIC came out and it was shocking to see that Strieber had been on exactly the same trail a few months before. [110] Just coincidence.] P. 176 - {Once they were sure that I was genuine, they became warm, friendly and open. The Jim Collins who had never heard of any aliens and thought that flying saucers were "crazy" was transformed into a knowledgeable individual with considerable information about the visitors. His wife claimed ongoing contact, and said that some of their children were involved.} {What I wanted to know was whether or not Kathy had ever given a baby to the visitors. When I asked her, she grew furtive. Although shocked by my question, Jim and Kathy were fascinated that I wanted to know more about their personal contact with the visitors. In all the years that they had been in contact with MAJIC, the secret group that controls human/alien affairs, they had never once been interviewed about this aspect. I wanted to concentrate on Kathy's childbearing years. Why would the visitors WANT human children? The issue of their first night together miscarried exactly three months later. I do not believe that this baby died. My strong suspicion is that it was taken from its mother. Months later it reached its strange maturity. It takes many generations to create the gold of a new species out of the clay of the old. Kathy O'Malley called it in her secret heart Seamus and in tears told me that she knew that it lived."} [Taken together with other sections of the book, this part of MAJESTIC raised the hair on the back of my neck. It brought back some memories and they staggered me, memories that eventually led to the short, short story that you saw earlier. It was years before I could really think about what those memories might mean in connection with Strieber's book.] P. 260 - {"Truman leaned back in his chair. "More ethical? Now you've really scared me. I fear men who don't know history. Auschwitz is more ethical than something we did before? I would say that we're getting less ethical. If they are more advanced than us, I can make a case that they will be monsters."} [At The Core Of The Issue: Is what the aliens are doing really any worse than what we do to each other every day of the world? This is a major tenet of the book--the humanity of `inhumanity.' Do we have a brief against these "aliens" if they eventually take the Earth away from us? Do the Sioux have one against us for the taking of part of North America away from them? If so, in what court would this brief be filed, and who would act as judge?] Pg. 281 - {Her body was roaring, the heart fluttering like a tent in the wind. He would love her as a boy, but when she grew old he would abandon her. His love for deception would replace his love for her and so she would die alone, her breast weakly shuddering, on a cot in a public cancer ward. I wanted to help him, to offer him some word of comfort but I could not. We are all betrayers. He saw waves of ships crossing the highest air. They were gray disks and the streets below rang with screams. But more people were singing than were screaming and chains lay abandoned that had weighted their shoulders. `The lamb will lie down with the lion.' The rat will perish of love as the owl's talons pierce his heart. Beyond fear there is another world."} [I think Strieber is really onto something here. But this is not really the Age Of Secrets, it is rather the Age Of Betrayal. Most of our troubles revolve around betrayal. We make treason the worst of all the sins and at the same time institutionalize deception and betrayal throughout society. We all will one day submit to the lie detector and the blood test. No one can be trusted--all betray. This IS the end of civilization and one of the main elements in MAJESTIC, in my view. It is too bad that one can see Strieber himself as a betrayer, based on some of the downright silly contents of his last couple of books.] ** End MAJESTIC Analysis ** Well, now that everyone is happy, let's move on to BREAKTHROUGH, [111] about which I have a different take. Let's use as the vehicle for our analysis the first chapter of this book, called "Something Very New." Strieber begins by making a couple of points that are absolutely undeniable: 1) Over the last 50 years "the government," along with the press and the sciences, have lost much of their credibility. 2) Most Americans know, or have heard about, someone who has had an experience with those Strieber calls "Visitors." These two points are important because as Jacques Vallee pointed out in his 1979 MESSENGERS OF DECEPTION [112], the modern world has produced much confusion and people everywhere are looking for answers, simple ones, that solve the world's problems and at the same time tell these same folks that they're just A-OK. American politics today are being driven by exactly such attitudes -- with a vengeance. And the prisons are overfilled as a result. Strieber then goes on to say that his overt contact phase began in 1985 and that the Visitors were "subtle and highly ethical" with him in their relationship, though this last might be hard for an outside observer to believe. But, relevant to this, on Page 5, Strieber says he had to know two things: 1) That these Visitors were not an "evil force," which required a "deep understanding of their aims and methods." 2) How long-term contact with Visitors would change human beings. Then he says that these questions have been adequately answered (in his mind) and thus we have the following: 1) The Visitors may be "what the force of evolution looks like when it applies itself to the conscious mind." We are being challenged to "change" and if we do then our future is "full of potential more wondrous by far then we have ever dared speculate." Thus, the Visitors are here for our ultimate good. 2) Contact with them is "safe but extremely challenging." This contact is designed to "direct us toward a power that lies undiscovered within us" leading to a "hyperconsciousness" of a type that THEY already possess. Strieber says that "there is no compelling evidence that people are being hurt, kidnapped or killed" and that "contact with the Visitors will inevitably lead to our rediscovery of the richness of all religion." 3) Strieber says he knows "how they propose to enter our lives and what they regard as important." He says they are contacting people one at a time on a vast scale, bypassing the institutions of our culture and society as well as our elite structures and their information and educational systems. They have done this because their initial attempts at contact, with official America, did not elicit a coherent response but instead led to secrecy and denial in an attempt to totally control the contact process. 4) Thus the Visitors have gone directly to "the people" and what government does is of no consequence any longer. Strieber says that "they understand us better than we understand ourselves." 5) The Visitors are doing something in relation to the human soul which is actually a physical thing, it can be measured. Strieber says that as soon as we can get back into contact with the soul we will "burst into the same hyperconsciousness that the Visitors possess." Then will come heaven on Earth, or something like it. 6) Strieber says, "No authorities, leaders or bureaucracies stand between the individual and contact and all of its benefits. The visitors place a premium on the individual and the family, and that is where the foundation of our relationship with them will begin." He later says, "We must work as individuals, as families, and as a species all at once, because personal gains and general gains occur together. This is not for leaders or followers. It is for the free." 7) Then we read, "Obviously, as this process comes to include most or all of humanity, our world is going to be dramatically altered." Strieber says then, "These are issues which must be explored in the light of reason and calm reflection." 8) Finally, "What the visitors possess is superior knowledge, which is why so much of what they do seems like magic of the sort that is repudiated by science as "psychism" and "supernatural." He then says, "It is not magic, it is a whole new continuum of mind and science, and if we could not learn its secrets equally well, THEY would not be here." Can it be that these Visitors are true democrats, small "d?" Seems so. The above is most interesting, is it not? Yes, it is. Now, it would be valuable for me to explore each of the points above from my viewpoint and give my readers some hints as to how to analyze Strieber. Or, in a less valuable scenario, I could just ridicule him, as many do. But I take Strieber much too seriously to do either of those two things. What would be really valuable would be to look at what Strieber has to say from the vantage point of those at the top our economic and social pile, the vantage point of those who count, those who suddenly in the last few years seem to have money, a lot of money, to spend on the UFO and its investigation. Could Strieber's work have sent them a signal, too? It is possible. Let us assume for the moment that we have a sharply defined group of very wealthy and influential people who de facto run the United States. Let us further assume that they have now taken an interest in Whitley Strieber, John Mack, et. al., and that there is really is both large-scale support and investigation of Mack and others. If the above were to be more or less the facts then things get very, very interesting. Let's look at each of the eight items immediately above, all taken from BREAKTHROUGH, and see how our social and economic betters might view them. 1) Strieber is talking about the Visitors bringing changes, wondrous changes, etc.. Sounds pretty good to those at or near the bottom of the stack, like the typical contactee. But what about someone at the top of the stack? Do they necessarily want ANY change, wondrous or not? And even if they were to be dissatisfied in some way, our elite want the changes THEY want, not those of mysterious Visitors, provenance unknown. Elites are not in the business of sharing such power with anyone else. 2) Let us assume for the moment that a few members of elite families have shown up as contactees. This is strongly implied in the work of John Mack [113] and this is, in fact, why I think the folks at the top are interested. If these Visitors are in fact "visiting" everyone, at all levels, then our nominal leaders want to know what is going on -- without a doubt. They are not in the business of sitting around waiting for events to take their course. These people ACT. 3) What could be more threatening to entrenched elites than a force that can contact the lower orders directly, changing their viewpoints on life, love and their place in the world? Well, I don't know WHAT could be more threatening and if I were one of the top dogs I would not let such a phenomenon go unstudied. And I might even try to get a handle on it, to infiltrate it, to see what was making it tick. . .perhaps to take it over and bend it to my own ends, if that were possible. [114] 4) Yes, 20,000-plus letters to Strieber in the first year should have gotten someone's attention. Strieber's book MAJESTIC ought to be required reading for all of us because it is written, in my opinion, from the distilled essence of that first burst of reader letters and leaks. There could be bombshells in there. 5) To hear Strieber talk the millennium is going to be upon us as the Visitors uplift the human race to hyperconsciousness. It takes a lot of guts to say something like this when nearly every contactee we know about has been totally betrayed by the Visitors when the chips went down. Or so it seems. 6) In this writer's opinion any force that contacts human beings in secret, one at a time, is by definition a sinister force. This is so because humanity advances through the collective agency of our social institutions, flawed though they may be. The subversion of those institutions, world-wide, all at the same time, is very threatening -- doubly so to our top dogs who in the main control said institutions in the developed world. 7) If the world is going to be dramatically altered then our elites are not interested in the light of reason but other kinds of light, such as the ones given off by nuclear reactions. That is, they would not be interested unless they were going to be cut in on the deal first and thus keep their positions. Then, well, that would be different. 8) Ah, yes, there is no doubt that they are superior in one way or another since they seem to know more about us than we know about them. But there is little reason for our social betters to believe that these Visitors are here for humanity's benefit. We should remember that human beings tend to project onto others their own secret desires and beliefs -- and we know what those are among our elites, don't we? All in all, then, I think that the big boys have put the wheels in motion toward making a final decision as to what OUR role is going to be in all of this, as far as they are concerned. In the interim the leaks and counterleaks are being promulgated full blast, the purpose being to keep everyone looking in the wrong directions, AWAY from where the action REALLY is, in close proximity to US, though the mass of us don't have any clear idea about what is happening. To me there is little doubt that THEIR program has gained huge momentum in recent years and that it is building to a peak in the fairly near future. Will this program come to completion without our ever knowing for sure what was happening? Could be. Will they just up and leave one day, having never told us anything about what they were actually doing? It's possible. Or are they here for the long run, or even forever, as Keyhoe and Lear have implied? And if this last is true, what will our place be on Earth with them? Will it be "peaceful co-existence" or will it more closely resemble what we did to the Sioux? Perhaps in the book I am working on I will address this issue, that is, what the parameters of such an "alien" program might be and what that program could mean for the rest of us. That might be a very GOOD subject for a book! Meanwhile, you should read MAJESTIC and BREAKTHROUGH. They might be, in part, a lot less "fictional" than you think. ** With this segment the series SCIENCE, COUNTERINTELLIGENCE AND UFOs comes to an end. I hope you have found it of at least some marginal interest. Am I through writing about UFOs, about science and about counterintelligence? Hardly. The world does not stand still and neither can the UFO analyst. Valentine H. Germann, September, 1997. *** Notes To Section 4d [101] Ivan Sanderson, INVISIBLE RESIDENTS, op. cit., Note [16]. [102] This account was given to me by an Missouri University faculty member who had worked in Africa for USAID, The Agency For International Development. [103] MAJESTIC, Whitley Strieber, 1989, G.P. Putnam & Sons. [104] BREAKTHROUGH, Whitley Strieber, 1995, HarperCollins, Inc. [105] This story "came" to me in 1995, in the middle of the night, after I had woke up from a very bad dream, one that kept me awake for a considerable time. So, I made a few notes about what I remembered from the dream and out of those notes came the tiny story you have read here. [106] TRANSFORMATION, Whitley Strieber, 1988, Beech Tree Books. [107} COMMUNION, Whitley Strieber, 1987, Beech Tree Books. [108] See Corso, THE DAY AFTER ROSWELL, Rosewood Books, 1997, pp. 119-130, concern the "aliens" and our "war" with them. [109] Richard Condon, THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, Notes [15],[95]. [110] I am not implying that Strieber may have "stolen" my ideas, not at all. We were just on the same research path. [111] Parts of BREAKTHROUGH are insipid and one can almost imagine the large alien-implanted key sticking out of his back. But parts of it are right to the point, as you see here. [112] Jacques Vallee, MESSENGERS OF DECEPTION, And/Or Press, Berkeley, California, 1979. This book is hard to find on the used book market, especially for me. That is, as this article was being prepared I found that I had misplaced my copy. Much of what Vallee has to say has relevance to the subjects discussed in this series. [113] John Mack, ABDUCTION, 1994, Charles Scribner's & Sons, see pages 369-386, Chapter 15, concerning "Arthur," who obviously has a great deal of money. [114] See the UFOSearch paper, HUMANITY, ELITES AND UFOs, in preparation, and soon to be seen on our web site which is currently under development. *** [End of Essay]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: 'Rods'? From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 01:20:25 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 22:09:59 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 12:04:25 -0700 > Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 01:14:49 -0400 > Subject: Re: 'Rods'? > > Date: Wed, 17 Sep 97 17:29:00 > > From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Rods'? > > >Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:51:08 -0700 > > >From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) > > >To: Updates@globalserve.net > > >Subject: Re: 'Rods'? > > >distance from the camera. The movements of the objects also seemed > > >charaterictally "non-buglike", very elegant hairpin turns and smooth > > >motion almost like fish. > As an experienced computer artist and animator, I would tend to discount > this possibility. Certainly it is possible, but there are no giveaways to > indicate it. > I think the "rods" proponents are sincere, but I have yet to see work > which > unambiguously confirms their contentions as to size and distance. In the > absence of that, I think we are looking at insects blurred by closeness > and motion. Mark, A high-end system like an Indigo or Onyx engine wouldn't even be required to hoax this footage. I have an associate who could do it easily with a Macintosh, Digital Video, Electric Image, and Debabilizer. Even so that's neither here nor there as I wasn't suggesting that I believed that Jose and Karen had hoaxed it for reasons that I stated in an earlier post. In addition, I wasn't meaning to suggest that my belief that Rods were not insects was based on my descriptions of their motion. My reasons for believeing they are not insects was stated at the beginning of my original post and not in Roger's quoted fragment. http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/sep/m17-003.shtml Jared . Search for other documents from or mentioning: jared | mcashman |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Request For Information (RFI):Lesotho and Botswana From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:33:56 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 22:12:36 -0400 Subject: Request For Information (RFI):Lesotho and Botswana Greetings list members: This is my final attempt to address the crash/retrieval (alleged) of UFOs in Lesotho and Botswana. Despite previous requests, as well as private email to various individuals, I have received zilch, nothing, zut, nada. Nothing I can use. Web page renderings of scanned documents is NOT evidence. What I need: I need photocopies of some of the pages of the allegedly "leaked" documents that were distributed to certain UFO investigators. Why do I need it? I intend to write a letter, or letters, to one or all of the following people: President Nelson Mandela FW de Klerk PW Botha Tony Leon Desmond Tutu What do I hope to achieve? That one of the above will take the issue to the cabinet or to the Truth and Reconciliation Committee, and that we will at least have a better chance of finding out what, if anything, really happened. The fact that both cases were supposedly handled as part of an "alternative" government operation, ie: that Nelson Mandela and the ANC were never privy to the operations or incidents, gives my exercise a fair chance of success, especially if one views it in the context of the current political atmosphere, with all types of skeletons (sometimes literally) dropping out of the closet. Even if I receive no feedback from the official representatives, I will still have enough to go to the press with, and a newspaper here called the Mail & Guardian will have a field day if given the right stuff. On the other hand, if I receive NOTHING from UFOlogists world-wide, then all I can conclude, and will post to this list accordingly, is that both alleged incidents are indeed hoaxes, and that certain UFOlogists are claiming "documentation" purely for FINANCIAL GAIN and STATUS! So, prove me wrong. Again, I don't need all the documents, just those with the maximum of detail: Names, numbers, ranks, Operation codenames, dates, etc. I will pay for the snail-mail charges, if neccesary. I will accept faxes if the quality is good enough. Please. I don't want to do this in 50 years, and make these incidents into the Southern African Roswells. Jakes E. Louw louwje@telkom.co.za +27 12 311-2668 082 923 6144
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 01:41:23 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 22:15:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality > From: fergus@ukraine.corp.mot.com [George Fergus] > Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:29:55 -0500 (CDT) > Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 01:54:11 -0400 > Subject: Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality > > According to one of our Scientific Sources, prior to 1947, there were > > no Transistors in use, only raw germanium and selenium diodes composed > > of naturally occurring elements -- mined from Bauxite and other mines. > > After September of 1947 and the alleged alien technology transfer to > > Bell Labs by the US Department of Defense, the entirely ARTIFICIALLY > > comprised Silicon 'Transistor' suddenly emerged at Bell Labs, arsenic > > doped in trace quantities into specially prepared Silicon produced > > remarkable changes in the 'conductive properties' of Silicon, when > > Boron and other gases and liquids were used to deposit it in the > > Silicon base. This produced the "Transistor" effects that had not been > > discovered by researchers working with rectifiers in over a hundred > > years. > There 4 misstatements of fact in the above: > -George Fergus Very interesting research George. Recall that ACC claims they are looking for data to refute the information they put on their website as well as data to corroborate it. With this in mind I sent a copy of your post to Shulman's private e-mail address to allow them to review it. Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze From: wlmss@peg.apc.org [Lawrie Williams] Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 18:51:10 +1000 (GMT+1000) Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 22:16:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze > From updates@globalserve.net Wed Sep 17 10:56:42 1997 > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Paper on Gulf Breeze > From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:12:14 -0500 > Subject: Paper on Gulf Breeze. > The information I have regarding Ed Walters and his hoaxed photos was I am cut to the quick. I thought it would have been impossible to hoax a series of photoes taken with three polaroids, a video camera and a mufon stereo camera over a period of months. Did you also catch out the other people who took pictures at the same time of a hoax ufo that looked the same? Have you managed to prove all the other hundreds of witnesses are liars too? > presented to Bruce Maccabee and Don Ware in 1992 and most recently Walt > Andrus and Dennis Stacy. It has been dismissed...ignored...because it > is proof of the hoax and it is embarrassing...... I have missed something here? When was a consensus achieved that the Walters photos were "hoaxed"? Or is Barbara Becker got her own hoax going? Barbara Becker, why not post a brief summary here? I do not see how Ed Walters could possibly have hoaxed those photos. Yet you make it sound as if that has been proven. > I have been censored. That means that YOU don't have what you > need to make up your own minds using all the info available. You > were given just so much and no more, just like the censorship of the > regular media. You are not censored here, surely. Lets see a summary. Part of it obviously is the allegation that Ed Walters is a liar. So we are back to slandering witnesses in order to silence them - perhaps. I hope others here will now demand that Barbara puts up or...... If it is new information, or a radical new explanation, it would not be hard to explain it in 300 lines or less. I am interested in how you dismiss the telepathy he experienced. You see, I have also heard telepathic messages in ufo hot spots. It seems to be rare, but it happens. If I could afford it I'd rush off to every flap I could. This fascinates me. And before anyone says it, no I do not normally hear voices. Only when UFO's are around, based on other eye witness sightings. I'd love to see you debunk the Northern Territory flap of 1992-1995. Over a vast area local whites, tourists and aborigines at different times all saw a craft with flashing lights that often came down and followed cars. Someone made a 30 minute video movie of one incident. It was snapped up for $100 000 by "Channel 10 in Brisbane" (Source: Wycliffe Wells Tourist Park Manager Lou Farkas in late May 1995.) and it was never seen again. Channel 10 is part of a national commercial network so there is a cover-up if ever there was one! Assuming all these people were liars would take a far bigger leap of faith than accepting the reality of ufo's of the type so well documented at Gulf Breeze. But I am also interested in mental gymnastics as they relate to explaining away UFO's. So please post your stuff on this list. I am sure nobody will mind. It seems to be on topic. > I am asking that people with web sites, from any country, contact > me personally and allow me to send you the paper and if you think > what I have presented is reasonable, thought out and well presented, > then put it on your site so it can be read by all. You come across like an evangelical skeptic, anxious to spread your message of denial as far as possible. Post it here, lets see what you have. Why look for web sites? Lets have some decent peer review. > Yes, the case is ten years old, but truth is timeless. So is human nature. Lawrie Williams.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: UFO sighting with John Velez From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 04:09:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 22:19:08 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> >Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 12:15:23 -0700 >> From: "Clark Hathaway & Julie Presson" <earthwrk@doitnow.com> >> To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFO sighting with John Velez >> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:16:07 -0700 >> ---------- >> > From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >> > To: "UFO Updates (E-mail)" <updates@globalserve.net> >> > Subject: UFO sighting with John Velez >> > Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:56:48 -0400 >> > 1. I've never had a UFO sighting, or even thought for half a second >> > that I was having one. I don't expect to look in the sky and see >> > something strange. >> I gave a talk up in Durango this weekend past and happened top make >> commentary on that. It is indeed interesting that out of a crowd craning >> their collect necks upward searching the sky for something that everyone >> else seems to be watching, some inevitably (or quite a few as the case may >> be) do not see anything. >> Now having stated that, I believe that I have a valid reason why in many if >> not most cases. Not all of us are equipped with the same expansion of >> awareness as perhaps the next guy. >We also need to most carefully be aware that tiny objects at the limits of >resolution can only be seen by those with the appropriate acuity. >Thus, some people see a spot of light in the sky and others don't. Perhaps >the focus of the others eyes is not as sharp, or perhaps their ability to >distiguish relatively small brightness variations is not as good. >Remember Hynek's analysis of the Mantell case? It could have been Venus >except that Venus was only 6-8 times brighter than the surrounding sky and >was thus effectively invisible. In other words, even 6-8 times is not >sufficiently brighter for most people to distinguish a point source in a >daytime sky. >> > So what was it? Beats me. I've never seen anything like it before. >> > With the naked eye, it was like a star shining in daylight. Through >> > binoculars, it had a vague shape. It didn't make any major movements. >> > I'd guess it was in view for a minute or less. I didn't think to time >> > it. It seemed to be there a fairly long while, but I'm aware from >> > other, non-UFO experiences that I tend to overestimate the time of >> > any event. I'd say a minute max, maybe 30 or 45 seconds. Hi Mark, You respond to Gregs account, >Again, possibly a sign of an object at the extreme limits of >visibility, possibly reflecting sun for a period, and then >banking or otherwise redirecting the reflection elsewhere. Nope. Wasn't hard to see at all. It was about the same apparent size and brightness as Jupiter when seen in the night sky. Greg didn't see it right away because he didn't know what he was looking for or where. I had to carefully point it out to him but when he finally spotted it it didn't require any squinting or straining to see the thing. It was very bright and perfectly stationary. I had the roofline of my house and an antenna for reference points. I never use clouds for that purpose because they are usually in motion themselves. I always look to place a fixed object in my view of whatever I'm looking at. It's not always possible of course but I managed to this time. This was an unconventional object that was hovering in one spot and then suddenly disappeared. It did not diminish in size or brightness it just wasn't there from one second to the next. >I once saw something like this on a summer afternoon while driving across >a bridge. The reflection reappeared a bit later, elsewhere, and then slowly >faded. I have no reason to believe it was not an aircraft. Yeah, airplanes I've seen similar phenomena. I can tell the difference, _this_ wasn't that! <G> >The fact that Greg's film did not come out is also an indication >that the object was both on the limits of resolution, and was not >quite sufficiently distinct from the brightness of the background >as to be caught on film. No Mark, you don't get it. NOTHING CAME OUT! It was as if the role had never been exposed at all! Empty, no images at all anywhere. No UFO, no buildings, no sky, no nothing. Zip, zero, zilch! My camera is mechanically sound. I have to expose and develop some new pictures to see if any problems exist with the equipment. John Velez John Velez jvif@spacelab.net Search for other documents from or mentioning: jvif | mcashman |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 05:22:59 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 22:49:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings > Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 13:25:54 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings John Velez is picked-up uttering: > Archives, dusty files, and dusty cases are the passtimes > of dusty old men who can no longer get their flattened > asses out of an armchair, and rightfully so. HELP! I seem to be stuck and I can't get up! > But if a > rash of unidentified aircraft sightings over New York > can't even get a squeak out of the rest, then this _is_ > a dead end field. Of which the evidence is nothing more than newer non-dusty paper with fuzzy-wuzzy pinpoints and non-deciferable blotches surrounded by anecdotes that the alleged photographic evidence represents "unidentified aircraft sightings", possibly flying saucer sightings gracing over the Big Apple. > can't even get a squeak out of the rest, then this _is_ > a dead end field. Personally, I see it as a sign of maturity in the UFO field not to get all excited over unresolved blotches and dots in the sky. Why, these archives, dusty files, and old cases are simply riddled with them. I would be more than happy to post the thousands and thousands of such marginal anecdotes that have only survived due to the exuberant belief that flying saucers have finally graced the witness' home town and neighborhood, but I seem to be stuck and I can't get up. HELP! [SNIP] > If you want to chase paper then fine, chase paper. > But, if you want to see, photograph or study the real > thing live, in broad daylight, over one of the most > densely populated urban areas on the planet,...we got > yer UFOs right heah! And so does every other urban area in the world where all it takes is unresolved blotches and pinpoints on film for a honker to try to excite a crowd and draw attention. > "There are UFO's over NY and I ain't too surprised." - John Lennon Walking around NY looking up at the sky is more dangerous than sleeping on the subway. But right now, I can't prove it. I am stuck. I can't seem to be able to get up. Ufology may well be a dead end field, but more so due to the lack of discipline, academia and the application of rigorous standards of evidence which permeates archives, old dusty files, and old cases - as well as the most recent attention-getting events. You know --- the backbone that honkers allude to as established fact which implies that Ufology has a substantive foundation. So let's not waste time attempting to insert some discipine, academia and rigorous standards of evidence to archives, dusty files, and old cases. There is no need to elevate Ufology to a higher level. After all, we have plenty of honkers out there to keep everybody entertained, and I can't semm to be able to get up. Ed Stewart ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart egs@netcom.com | So Man, who here seems principal alone, There is Something | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Going On! ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, Salvador Freixedo ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. --------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man -------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: UFO sighting with John Velez From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 14:00:13 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:00:53 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez > Date: Wed, 17 Sep 97 12:26:27 pst > From: mdavis@ccsmtp.glycomed.COM (Davis, Michael) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez > >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> > >To: "UFO Updates (E-mail)" <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: UFO sighting with John Velez > >Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:56:48 -0400 > >I looked, and there it was - a small bright pinpoint. Imagine if > >the stars shone by day, and you'd spotted a bright one. That might > >give you an idea of what this looked like. The color was silvery white. > >"If it's a plane," John answered, "why is it hovering?" > >It seemed to be there a fairly long while, but I'm aware from > >other, non-UFO experiences that I tend to overestimate the time of > >any event. I'd say a minute max, maybe 30 or 45 seconds. > Hello, > I suppose this may be a bit simplistic, but the above sounds exactly > like a plane, from the written description. I suggest this embarrassingly > obvious solution because I live in the San Francisco Bay Area between the > Oakland Int'l Airport and the S.F. Int'l Airport. Snipped > Every few minutes there appears to be an extremely > bright white light hovering in the sky for what seems to be an uncomfortably > long time, i.e., 30-45 seconds. The light then generally makes a right turn > and flies off out of sight. Naturally, the jet appears to be hovering as it's > in direct line of sight, then makes a 'right angle' turn. The pilot will > turn off the lights as the jet ascends on to it's flight path creating the > illusion that the light/object has disappeared. It is a good explanation Michael but it won't wash. I think every one is aware of that effect now with the aircraft[a/c] coming down the glideslope, right at you, and it appears to be hanging in one spot in the sky until it turns. They don't turn off their lights though, it just appears that that is the case when the a/c turns away from you. The lights stay on until the a/c touches down. The problem with John's and Greg's sighting is the location. Their distance from any one of the three major airports [La Guardia, Kennedy and Newark International] is minimal. Airplanes, in particular, passenger a/c, do not decend rapidly to land as many of you have experienced. They are set up on glide paths that normally gives them a rate of decent of 500 feet a minute or less. They start this a long way out so as to decend from altitudes of 40,000 feet or less [ except Concord which can be as high as 55-60 k feet, at least that is the upper limits of their flight corridor] gradually so as to not distress their passengers with ripid decent discomforts. In John and Greg's case the aircraft in question would have to have been diving on them at a steep angle for a conciderable period of time for the light to stay stationary overhead. In 35-45 seconds the a/c would have been at such a rate of decent that it would have made a nice big hole in the center of New York. Otherwise the passengers would have experienced 8, 10 or even 15 Gs on pull out. If they survived that then they would have the next little problem to contend with and that is the aiplane's sudden lack of wings, torn off by the G forces because most passenger a/c don't have wing structural capabilities over 6Gs [ the Boeing 777 has + 7.3 G rating] nor does the fuselage. Without wings the a/c would have all of the aerodynamic qualities of a forklift. So I don't think these were a/c lights that Greg and John saw. And yes they do use lights during daylight for visibility purposes, and no it would not be a fighter diving over New York, it is verbotten in Commercial Airspace unless there was an airshow or something and again that does not happen in New York's airspace which incidentally is Terminal Controll Area, TCA, from Griswold Conn. west 100 miles or so to Dingman's Ferry, South 70 miles to Levittown N.J. then 100 miles east to a point in the Atlantic, then north again to Griswold, Conn. to form a huge rectangle. Sorry to go on at such great length to make such a simple point. More later, Don Ledger Search for other documents from or mentioning: dledger | mdavis |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 ACC - Press Release From the PR Department From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 12:16:42 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 22:40:03 -0400 Subject: ACC - Press Release From the PR Department Received from the "Skywatch" mailing list: ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:43:15 -0500 (CDT) From: mailbox@ix.netcom.com To: skywatch@phoenix.net Subject: AMERICAN COMPUTER website now has Enhanced Pictolography, Additional News, Letters, and Information After this brief precis, I have enclosed a press release, American Computer asked me to transfer to you for redeployment, if you see fit (I think you should). Here goes: ----- An even larger amplification of pictography on the Roswell matter appears on American Computer Company's Website, updated today, 09/18/97: http://www.american-computer.com They say the color picture is 'inaccurate', but has the general outline of the shape of an alleged Roswell UFO, according to their source, and http://www.compamerica.com/roswell.htm which has new information and appendices on it. I received an EMAIL indicating it was going to be refined on a weekly basis with new submissions (added as annotations and as appendixes). ---- The ACC Public Relations department also provided the following: "American is concerned with all of the speculation about the accuracy vs. inaccuracy of the information on their website, and wants the public to be aware:" "None of the story on our Website is at the present time anything other slightly more than speculation, nor should the public treat it as 'proof' that a Space Craft landed in Roswell, New Mexico on July 7th, 1947. It is our fervent hope that the 'mystery' of exactly what prompted the Air Force personnel to at first identify a space craft at the crash site will surface. We also hopt that the reason why there have been so many subsequent unconfirmed stories that tended to support the allegations of 50 years ago, stories that continue to persist, today." "When we first published our story, we thought it was rather 'far fetched', and did not think anyone in the public eye would find it anything other than a lightly humorous, ACC story." "After we first read it upon posting, honestly, we had a good laugh, and said - how clever it all appears, the ACC source of this story, it should get a Screen Writer's Guild award." "It was not until after we published it, that we learned that Col. William Corso had published a book on the subject, and came to believe we should take information from our source more seriously. At the present time, despite the fact that the story seems a lot more believable than unbelievable, we have received a lot of information from people at: Motorola Corporation, claiming that the allegations that William Shockley developed the Transistor after exposure to "Alien Secrets" -- was very untrue. They have sighted post 1948 discussions in Shockley papers claiming that Shockley first noted that he identified the Transistor 'Effect' while applying electrolytic currents to a 'high-back-voltage Germanium rectifier'. They have, however, admitted that prior to December of 1947, there was not even a single published paper by any author that described either the Transistor, the materials that could be used to make one, nor the manner in which one was composed, nor how it worked, nor what it did. The allegations that Shockley suggested such in a 1939 lab notebook, is not, at this time, able to be authenticated beyond reason for doubt." "We have asked a research facility in Central New Jersey what the 'high-back-voltage Germanium Rectifier' reference they cite means. They say: it means Shockley used a battery power source to apply oscillating current to a 'rectifier' composed of the earth mineral Germanium, with a propensity for high reflectivity of 'Free electron potential', and that, ostensibly, it began to oscillate or amplify. The facility indicated that they could not explain how to duplicate this effect, nor could they explain why Motorola Corporation has insisted to ACC that all (and many, today) Transistors were once made of Germanium. The facility insists that Germanium would be added to a Transistor, to add 'rectifying' characteristics, and that few Transistors also incorporating a Germanium diode rectifier exist today, so it would be difficult to duplicate. Also, one Motorola employee who had written us, indicated that the 'Point Contact' Transistor existed, allegedly, long before Shockley invented the Bell Transistor. This last allegation stands disproven. The Research Group, indicated that it appears very surprising that of all the many tens of thousands of scientists who had tried the kind of test that Shockley performed in the prior Century, no one before September of 1947 every observed a Germanium Diode that could act like a Transistor. Another writer has insisted that he could bring the entire 'force' of Intel Corporation to bear on this subject, if we had any (QUOTE) serious evidence (UNQOUTE) that would motivate further scientific or historical inquiry." "Over the course of the past few days, several have suggested the sensitivity of Motorola Corporation personnel to the story: Motorola is a company which regularly manufactures technology which was originally researched and developed by AT&T Corporation, at Bell Labs. A lifelong relationship with Bell Labs is a very obvious source of concern over allegations that something 'bad' took place at Bell in 1947. We understand, and empathize with Motorola and its employees who wrote to us, and hope that they, and others, become instrumental in assisting American Computer in further illuminating exactly WHAT DID HAPPEN in Roswell, New Mexico, and what, if anything, came of it all there, at Bell Labs, in Military circles, and other companies. It would, we believe, be better for the entire affair to be fully disclosed by anyone who ever had anything to do with it, than for the present Air of Betrayal that surrounds the allegations of Conspiracy, Cover-up, and Covert Operations, to continue. American Computer is striving to remain impartial in the ensuing inquiry into this matter." "We certainly hope that no one, in a rush to defend a long held belief, would be willing to stand in the way of the Truth, no matter where it takes us all." -- Submitted by: "Lone" Bob Wolf ---------------------------------- -- How Green is My Garden, Inc. -- ---------------------------------- === ANYONE WISHING TO VERIFY THE AUTHENTICITY === OF THIS POSTING, MAY CONTACT AMERICAN COMPUTER === AT 908-272-3330, AND ASK FOR JIM GEHRYAN, PR === DEPARTMENT HEAD, WHO WILL VERIFY ITS CONTENT. (snip) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:03:01 -0700 From: "SKYWATCH" <skywatch@mail.phoenix.net> To: "(Mail List #3)" <skywatch@wic.net> Subject: Skywatch: AMERICAN COMPUTER website now has Enhanced Pictolograp Search for other documents from or mentioning: stig_agermose | mailbox
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: 'Rods'? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 09:16:21 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:13:15 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? >Date: Wed, 17 Sep 97 11:21:16 pst >From: mdavis@ccsmtp.glycomed.COM (Davis, Michael) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: 'Rods'? > Bob, Group, > Provided the above flight speed info is accurate and combined >with the technical photography info, can we make any educated assumptions >as to weather the hypothetical insect would be in focus or out of focus? > In other words, could we determine if a housefly traveling at >35 mph, 15 feet from the camera lens and photographed at 1/10,000 would >be in focus or blurry? Or do we need more specific information >regarding f/stop settings, film type, lens size, etc.? >Thanks, >Michael Davis >mdavis@glycomed.com I must preface my reply with a caveat. I am not an expert in how video cameras work. My knowledge is more in the realm of still cameras and motion picture cameras, where we are dealing with mechanical shutter mechanisms. That being said, let me make a point about mechanical shutters. If you have a 35 mm camera with a top shutter speed of 1/8,000 second (about the fastest currently available) you might assume that the shutter opens, stays open for 1/8,000 seconds, and then closes. Not so. Mechanical limitations on acceleration of shutter mechanisms make the fastest speed at which the shutter opens, times a speed, and then closes only about 1/250 second. To achieve faster speeds, the shutter fakes it. How does it do that? Simply by not opening all the way, but by the two shutter blades or curtains forming a slit, and then scanning this slit across the shorter axis of the image. This produces an effective speed of 1/8,000 of a second, but the blades or curtains really only move fast enough for 1/250 second. My point is that to analyze moving subjects requires specialized, VERY expensive, cameras, with shutters (these days usually liquid crystal shutters) which really achieve the desired very short shutter speeds. Another, easier, way to freeze action is with a high-speed flash. Dr. John Cooke, an Entomologist I know in London, devised just such a flash to study the wing action of insects in flight. It produces, if I recall correctly, flash durations as short as 1/50,000 second. However, equipment like this is costly to build, and dangerous if not built very carefully due to the high voltages stored in the capacitors. The commercial flash based on John's design sells for something like 10,000 English pounds. The highs speed cameras using cine film or video that are made for industrial and scientific analysis of high speed phenomena might be useful for analysing the rod phenomenon, but, again, you are talking lots of money to buy or rent them. And this equipment is not easy to use. Now on the question of standard video cameras. Jose has not yet answered my question about which brand(s) and model(s) of video camera(s) he is using. So I can't be specific. I called the tech department of one of the major makers of video cameras yesterday and got some basic information on how they work. Remember my explanation above about how mechanical shutters "fake" high speeds by slit scanning? Well it seems that standard video cameras do the same thing, but do it electronically. I was told that all consumer video cameras use what is called a "progressive scanning CCD" sensor. When you set the camera for, say, 1/10,000 second, you don't really get 1/10,000 second any more than with a still camera. The sensor is scanned electronically, so that each scan line produces an effective speed of 1/10,000. So whether a moving subject will be blurred or not depends on the fastest "real" shutter speed of the camera, which is something like 1/100 second on most models. My opinion based on this information is that we will not be able to definitively answer the question of what these things are without a very well funded research project. My expectation of the funding of such a project being worthwhile is not very high. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality From: "WHITE" <mjawhite@digitaldune.net> [John White] Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 07:43:49 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:24:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality > From: fergus@ukraine.corp.mot.com [George Fergus] > Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:29:55 -0500 (CDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Transistor from Roswell: claims and reality To all, and especial thanks to EBK, and George Fergus, who wrote: > For several weeks now, a consultant with the American Computer Company > has been telling the world via their website that Bell Labs did not > really invent the transistor While I was fumbling around trying to cross check Corso's statements against published research re: transistors, (interlibrary loan, Barnes & Noble and old solid state physics textbooks) somebody who knew what the heck they were doing, coupled with the service provided by EBK, put paid to any eureka!! on my part and solved a major part of my search. I will still go on, but my journey is much easier now. Whether interesting hypotheses, rhetorical theses or simple humor and insight by layman or dedicated researcher, abductions, UFO sightings, alien technology, as well as the occasional "flame," all have been given a forum for dialogue and discussion. Twenty-five years ago, it would have been damn near impossible for the ordinary joe/jill to check Corso's (or ACC's) transistor claims as rapidly as this site has responded. I am almost finished with his book and tracking down the transistor material, and my thoughts are starting to firm up on the genesis of his book: he started it as a novel using his experiences as a backdrop to add a Clancy-like element of truth to it, but finished up directing it at---in his mind---a less critical audience. Given the demeanor of the individuals on this site, that may have been an error. (Well, I still bought the book @ $27 plus dollars, so maybe he wasn't far wrong.) Although I have strayed---more than once---from the rules of engagement on this List, and while most certainly a "newbie," (and this tangentially responds to some posts which have expressed fears about posting here) I have not felt a need to be shy or retiring with my thoughts on the transistor flap, because I was genuinely intriqued by the thought that a military professional would (a) disclose those matters, assuming they were true or (b) would lie about it, assuming they were false. So don't be hesitant in posting. My next foray is to become conversant on abductions. (Yes, I'm a new to this, and I want to taste as much of the menu as I can before, I get down to the nitty-gritty of looking at these matters in depth.) I believe there is far too much circumstantial evidence for there not to exist hard physical evidence somewhere. Just because you don't find a smoking gun in the proverbial "locked-from-the-inside" room, doesn't mean there wasn't a gun. Far from dissuading me from continuing, tracking down Corso's transistor claims have convinced me that finding evidence is a doable thing and the existence of this site has convinced me that finding that evidence is a lot easier when you have team of interested persons ruling out wild hairs on a real-time' basis. So don't be hesitant in posting. Sorry for rambling---click the delete and trash this puppy. John White
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: 'Rods'? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:53:03 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:40:50 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Rods'? >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:54:50 EST <snip> >If you want to look into these images then copy and paste these URLs into >your Web broswer. >http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/chapterhouse/tompics1.htm >http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/chapterhouse/april5/april596.htm >http://www.blackvault.com/johnbro.html >http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/chapterhouse/edpage/edpage.htm <snip> OK, Tom. I went and looked at the URLs you listed. The second one doesn't work. Your photos (tompics1.htm) don't look like bugs to me. I would not hazard a guess to what they are, other than that they are genuine UFOs. I know that there are real UFOs, so I don't discount the possibility that you have filmed the real thing. The photos on (edpage.htm) don't look like bugs, either. Again, I don't know what this is, but I don't think it is an insect flyby. The photos on blackvault (johnbro.html) is unconvincing to me. The statement by Village Labs that they are at a great distance and are structured craft strikes me as pretty ridiculous to make from these images. My guess would be that this shows a flock of birds. That's what it looks like to me. Please remember that these are just quick opinions based on what is shown on these URLs. Without access to the actual video footage it is impossible to make any really accurate assessments of such material. None of this stuff looks anything like the stuff Jose has on his site. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: UFO sighting with John Velez From: stenger@spindle.net [Sharolyn Stenger] Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:09:12 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:44:42 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 12:33:31 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez >What this tells me is that we have a lot of folks who would like to comment >participate, or simply express an oppinion and they are holding back >because they either think that they have to be a 'well known personality' >to participate, or they're afraid of being eaten alive by some of the land >sharks that swim in these waters. >A. You don't have to write a book or be a well known ufologist to >(participate) on Errols list. As long as the comments or information are >relevant or contribute to the thread in question the material gets posted. Good point, John! I was wallowing in inferiority and guilt - inferiority at not being an educated, active UFO investigator, and guilt at not even trying to be. I am a musician and an artist. People ask me to sing or play and they buy my jewelry or sculptures without asking if I have degrees in these fields. No problem. I have talent and intelligence to know what I can or cannot (or should not) do. So, I shall try to apply that same judgment to my participation on this list. Thanks. Sharolyn
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:39:28 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:49:44 -0400 Subject: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions Hi all, Guess what. Elizabeth "false memory" Loftus has written an article in the September issue of Scientific American that says that alien abductions are all a trick of the mind. Anyone with scoop marks, X-rays and CAT-scans care to react? John Velez, perhaps? You can send letters to editors@sciam.com I have considered writing myself, but I'm afraid I don't have the time. __________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Technology Pages http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp \______________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: 'Rods'? From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 12:52:41 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:55:48 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Rods'? > Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:54:50 EST > It appears some cheap shots have been directly towards Jose, in order to > have something to talk about on this list. You can post all the math and > jargon you please, but it means nothing unless you have actually walked in > these shoes. Tom - There are no cheap shots here. I have so far spent a number of hours in research, analysis and calculation and I have over and over again offered what it takes, in my opinion, to prove "rods" as a real phenomenon. Triangulation. 70-90% of what people see with their eyes and instruments and report as UFOs are known by all of us to be something else. In science it is essential to take as skeptical a position as possible with regard to new results, and to let the data and the theory force itself on us by sheer plausibility. Such is my position on the "rods", as it is with any sighting that I am examining which has not yet been validated by independent investigators. It is not and should not be necessary for one to have to actually go out and take photos of an object in order to perform analysis. Do you think that the astronomers who analyze active galaxies, or the biologists who identify subcellular structures, or the meteorologists who predict weather patterns all go out and make their own observations? Of course not. They use data obtained by those whose job it is to make those observations, as we are doing here. They analyze that data in the context of known physical conditions and mathematics, as we are doing here. What bothers me, and I suppose is indicative of why UFOlogy is in such a mess, is the reaction of investigators and researchers to criticism or alternate hypotheses. If anyone has the temerity to suggest that someone did not see or photograph a UFO when they think they have, then that person is either taking "cheap shots" or is that love-to-hate creature, the "disinformation agent". I wonder what happened to the days when, according to John Fuller, hard-nosed newspaper editors could say of NICAP investigators that they tried to disprove a sighting before accepting it? Frankly, if Jose is planning on ever taking this data into an actual scientific forum, I expect he will be glad that there are some who took the time to try to find flaws in his data, methods, or conclusions. Because right now his data wouldn't get past the editor even into peer review. And if you think we're tough, try anonymous peer review by real scientists. > For all of you who claim to have some "expert" opinion on his videotapes, > you should post your facts on a URL like Jose, John Bro, Tim Edwards, and > myself have before you take cheap shots at the evidence. Why does where we post our comments have anything to do with their validity? Yes, I have a web site, but, frankly, it is dedicated to the most positive and most provable aspects of UFOs. I see no benefit to adding "rod" commentary to the site until the data is better, and I also want to get the benefit of the other informed and smart people on this list in attempting to make up my mind on the subject. And if you think my mind is made up, then all you have to do is publish a paper showing methods of triangulation used and results from it which demonstrate rods to be large objects at a distance from the camera, and then show that independent researchers have validated your findings. I can assure you that my attitude will be more positive. Unfortunately, so far, all I've gotten is some "cheap shots". How about invalidating my math? How about showing mathematically that bugs cannot cause rods? > Where are your .jpg stills to disprove this? Where are your videos and > photos to debunk all of this hard work? I find none of them online. I have > shot over 110 hours of video and SHVS tape of the "Solar technique" devised > by John Bro and Tim Edwards. I know more about this than any of you claiming > you can solve it in a weekend. I spent thousands of dollars a over 1 year > taping this technique. I still have no conclusive answers on what these > objects are. Again, why is this the only acceptable way to disprove rods as UFOs? Where are _your_ mathematical calculations to demonstrate that it is impossible for bugs to cause "rods"? > Some are bugs. Some are spider webs, others are unidenitfied bugs never > discovered. So some "rods" are bugs? How can we distinguish bug "rods" from non-bug "rods", without the presence of the clouds you cite below? What are the differences in morphology and flight path between bug and non-bug "rods"? > Still other objects are "clearly" flying into clouds and are large objects. > These objects couldn't have been bugs or insects. They were real objects of > a large size to register on video at the size they were over 3 miles away. I > have very clear SVHS tape showing these objects moving thru clouds. It's > been on the net for over 1 year now. We post everything we have. Have you triangulated the clouds or did you use NWS cloud ceilings? What precautions did you take to ensure that low contrast or CCD adaptive response did not cause the object to "appear" to go behind the clouds, when it was actually "washed out" of the image by cloud brightness? That is the kind of data I want. Not assertions that "it went behind this" or "it was huge because I think it was this far away". Why is that so hard to understand? > Tim Edwards shot his "clyinder" footage while it was near the Sun. > If you bothered to ever watch the sky you might see a "Rod" with the naked > eye. I do watch the sky. Why do you assume I don't? > There are dozens of people who have repeated this experiment and came up > with the same results. This would make the "Technique" scientific. Yes, but it doesn't make the conclusions scientific. Until the measurements are made (i.e. triangulation) all of the claims of distance and speed are just that - claims. > Before any of you start a fight with me. I challenge you to check out each > of the four sites and prove to the list all are bugs and insects. What else exactly have we been doing, Tom? And I am certainly not interested in "fighting" anyone. I just want to know the scientific truth. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 20 More Military Jet Crashes From: xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 17:29:11 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 08:27:05 -0400 Subject: More Military Jet Crashes I just saw some breaking news that a B-1 bomber has crashed. They didn't have many details to offer yet. Does anyone have a total of how many military jets have crashed in the last 2 weeks? Tom King, Skywatcher Arizona Skywatch director AZ Skywatch http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/skywatch/skywatch.htm OVNI Chapterhouse at http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/ufovideo.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 20 MA 19970919 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 17:37:37 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 08:28:25 -0400 Subject: MA 19970919 Bufo Calvin P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com Website: http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert provided that attribution is made to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with strangers before you e-mail them something. If you forward this, please make sure it is clear that you are forwarding it). September 19, 1997 The new television season is here, and LOOKING BEYOND debuts this week. This one has a lot of good folks involved with it, and I'm looking forward to checking it out. I'm making some progress on my website. I probably shouldn't have mentioned it early on, before there was much there. However, I do expect it to have substantial content by the end of October. As to this list, there will be some positive changes in the way it is delivered soon, and I'll let you know. This week, it almost seemed like too much work again, but it was a rough week...one of the cats kept me from getting much sleep. :) I've also gotten positive response to my splitting out a separate list for periodicals and books, so that may happen. On to the listings! ON-LINE OMNI MAGAZINE (http://www.omnimag.com <A HREF="http://www.omnimag.com">Omni M agazine</A> ) is back to do real time conferences. The regular night for our kind of stuff is Tuesday 7:00 PM to 8:00 PM Pacific. UK.UFO.NW (tons of irc addresses, the channel is #UFO), 3:00 PM (Pacific), Saturday, Michael Lindemann. He's always worth hearing. Check <A HREF="http ://members.aol.com/weirdware/books.html">Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Books</A> for some videos (they aren't there as I write this, but I really have to get the alert out. I'll try and get them up there this weekend) RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE is now SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO. This has resulted, among other things, in a new website: http://www.sightings.com. <A HREF="http://www.sightings.com">SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO</A> Next week's guests not known (except for Michael Lindemann ...he'll be on at 6:00 PM Wednesday as I write this, but you can check their website on Monday. It can also be heard on your computer. Airtimes: M-F 6-9 PM Pacific (times given here are generally Pacific),. Sunday 8-11 PM Pacific. Archives of earlier shows are also available, so you can hear my previous broadcasts through this site. SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE? --week of 9/15, blind woman drives; Mom knows daughter needs help LOOKING BEYOND --New this week. I don't have an affiliate listing yet. Arizona UFOs; haunted family; forensic sculptor; spontaneous human combustion; near-death experiences; UFO researcher (I'm sure I'll be able to get more complete listings in the coming weeks) PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com for stations and airdates and other info). This series is supposedly based on real cases. --Week of 9/13, DEATH AT SUNSET; COLLISION (soul transfer of car accident victim to driver) Saturday, September 20 RADIO: ART BELL interviews Gordon-Michael Scallion, author of Earthforce ( <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0685448878/bufosweirdworldA/ ">Earthforce</A> )(see website at http://www.artbell.com) RADIO: THE EDGE OF REALITY, 5:00 PM -8:00 PM Pacific. Also available on Satcom C5, Transponder 23, SEDAT Channel 24. The specific spots have to be considered tentative, and the station in your area may run it tape-delayed. I've found out recently that the one in my area even runs it out of order, running the third hour first! 5:00 Pacific, James Twyman, author of Emissary of Light: Adventures With the Secret Peacemakers ( <A HREF= "http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0446523003/bufosweirdworldA/">Emissary of Light: Adventures With the Secret Peacemakers</A> )...the author claims to have interacted with a sort of good guy Illuminati, a secret group working for peace; 6:00 PM, Karl Grossman, author of The Wrong Stuff : The Space Program's Nuclear Threat to Our Planet ( <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/o bidos/ISBN=1567511244/bufosweirdworldA/">The Wrong Stuff : The Space Program's Nuclear Threat to Our Planet</A> ). Grossman has written books critical of U.S. policy and nuclear power before. I'm guessing he's not happy with the Cassini probe. 7:00 PM, Sir Martin Rees, author of Before the Beginning: Our Universe and Others ( <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0201151 421/bufosweirdworldA/">Before the Beginning: Our Universe and Others</A> ). With strong scientific credentials, this astronomer argues for the so-called "multiverse", that there are several universes. It is also possible that celebrity astrologer Lisa Kent, author of The 13th Sign ( <A HREF="http://www. amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1889936057/bufosweirdworldA/">The 13th Sign</A> ) may appear at some point. 2:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: DRAGONS, DINOSAURS, AND GIANT SNAKES Sunday, September 21 SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND: Art interviews Salvatore Trento, author of a series of travel guidebooks on weird places, including Field Guide to Mysterious Places of Eastern North America ( <A HREF="http://ww w.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0805044493/bufosweirdworldA/">Field Guide to Mys terious Places of Eastern North America</A> )(see http://www.artbell.com) LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 7:00 PM: JOURNEY: Brenda Roberts produces. Crime & Society with Dr. Joe Weis...not sure if this is paranormal, but the show usually is. 11:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5061): UFO Encounter: Argentina! (a 1995 case, which included witnesses aboard a plane); Cancer Alert Dogs! (can dogs be trained to smell cancer?); House of Plenty (Parts 3 and 4)! (This is a continuing series on a haunted house); UFOs Best Evidence! (a briefing document has been prepared and distributed called UFO Briefing Document, the Best Available Evidence. I'm not sure if SIGHTINGS will cover the controversy over its distribution. It certainly sounds like the copyrighters did not want it distibuted the way it was. I know I disagree with some folks on the web in according copyrighter holders the respect to which they are legally and ethically entitled...in my humble opinion (Whoops! Soapbox alert! :) ) 12:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD, MYSTERIOUS INDIA 2:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED, SPONTANEOUS HUMAN COMBUSTION 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5061): UFO Encounter: Argentina! (a 1995 case, which included witnesses aboard a plane); Cancer Alert Dogs! (can dogs be trained to smell cancer?); House of Plenty (Parts 3 and 4)! (This is a continuing series on a haunted house); UFOs Best Evidence! (a briefing document has been prepared and distributed called UFO Briefing Document, the Best Available Evidence. I'm not sure if SIGHTINGS will cover the controversy over its distribution. It certainly sounds like the copyrighters did not want it distibuted the way it was. I know I disagree with some folks on the web in according copyrighter holders the respect to which they are legally and ethically entitled...in my humble opinion (Whoops! Soapbox alert! :) ) 10:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5061): UFO Encounter: Argentina! (a 1995 case, which included witnesses aboard a plane); Cancer Alert Dogs! (can dogs be trained to smell cancer?); House of Plenty (Parts 3 and 4)! (This is a continuing series on a haunted house); UFOs Best Evidence! (a briefing document has been prepared and distributed called UFO Briefing Document, the Best Available Evidence. I'm not sure if SIGHTINGS will cover the controversy over its distribution. It certainly sounds like the copyrighters did not want it distibuted the way it was. I know I disagree with some folks on the web in according copyrighter holders the respect to which they are legally and ethically entitled...in my humble opinion (Whoops! Soapbox alert! :) ) Monday, September 22 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse <A HREF="http://www.rysher.com/strang eun iverse/">Strange Universe</A> for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: Brenda Roberts produces. 10:01 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#17): WALK THRU FIRE; STAR GAZING SEX, SCANDAL, DEATH, & HOLLYWOOD Tuesday, September 23 SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 5:30 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#18): PSYCHOMETRICS; UFO'S & DOLPHINS; WINCHESTER MYSTERY HOUSE 10:01 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#18): PSYCHOMETRICS; UFO'S & DOLPHINS; WINCHESTER MYSTERY HOUSE Wednesday, September 24 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 5:30 AM, , THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#19): ASTRAL PROJECTION; CRYSTAL HEALING; SCENTS OF SMELL (aromatherapy) 10:01 AM, , THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#19): ASTRAL PROJECTION; CRYSTAL HEALING; SCENTS OF SMELL (aromatherapy) Thursday, September 25 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 5:30 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#20): SWEET ADELAIDA-A GHOST STORY; SOUL JOURNEY (Amerind afterlife); BEATING THE ODDS (physically challenged kids performing in a superior fashion) 10:01 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#20); SWEET ADELAIDA-A GHOST STORY; SOUL JOURNEY (Amerind afterlife); BEATING THE ODDS (physically challenged kids performing in a superior fashion) 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5062) 7:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED, NOAH'S FLOOD 8:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5062): 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD, SEA MYSTERIES (including mermaids) 11:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED, NOAH'S FLOOD Friday, September 26 LOCAL RADIO, 8:00 PM (Pacific Time) WGBB 1240 AM, New York: THE JOYCE KELLER SHOW: the host is a psychic who helps callers. Phone number is 516-955-1240 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD, SEA MYSTERIES (including mermaids) 5:30 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#21): YOGA, ART & MEDICINE; SEDONA 10:01 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#21); YOGA, ART & MEDICINE; SEDONA This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before. _____________________________ **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. ______________________________ <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/weirdware/books.html">Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Books </A> I'm very excited about this! Some of you know, I ran a bookstore for years, and it has always been a love of mine. I get asked often to recommend books (I do write reviews for several publications) on these topics, and now I can do it and actually give you a source for them at the same time! This is being done in association with Amazon.com, which has an outstanding reputation for the five "S"s of internet shopping: selection, searchability, service, savings, and security. If there is any specific book you want (or topic in which you are interested), let me know and I will do the research and e-mail you a link you can use to check it out more (and order it if you want). I will be linking to books within the Media Alert, to make it more efficient for you. If you click on the link, you will be sent to that title on Amazon. You do =not= have to buy it at that point! You may, but the option is yours.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: A New Question about Witness Anonymity From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 02:05:04 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 09:35:32 -0400 Subject: Re: A New Question about Witness Anonymity The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments to the List. >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:55:27 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: A New Question about Witness Anonymity >I really admire EBK for all the work he does on this list, >plus he's an all-around good guy, too! Hopefully, he's going >to allow me to touch on the topic of witness anonymity in >relation to abductees. And he did, and he is, and I think so too. He doesn't know it yet, but he's also very brave to open up this can of worms again. >The way I see it there is NOTHING right now to hold a >non-medical professional to any kind of ethical standard. >This is one of the big problems facing abduction >investigation/research, IMO. There is one solution: if someone is concerned about their name being used (abused, misused) in public by a researcher, they can always start off using a pseudonym *with the researcher*. While researching the book I've just completed, it turned out that a couple of people I interviewed wanted to remain anonymous. I know their names and their e-mail addresses, but that's all. I have only the haziest idea of where they live. I won't hand out their e-mail addresses to anyone, and no one can extract their other details from me, because I don't have them. They should be safe from embarrassment or harassment. Obviously this solution won't work for everyone, but it might for some. >Maybe it's time for an abductee's union. A place where >abductees could get responsible information on their rights. Hmmm, and guess what. Its first port of call might have to be somewhere in the West 20s of Manhattan. One of the advantages of being a government agent and member of the International Bankers Corresponding Society is that you have spies everywhere. When the Mossad COMSAT wings overhead nightly I send up my latest recipes for gefilte fish matzoh sandwiches and get an encrypted burst back from The Boys. Interesting tidbit the other day. One of our Joes was recently in San Marino (an independent earldom within Italian borders with very useful banking laws), and apparently none other than Mr B. Hopkins was in-country too. Referring, in front of a large and probably paying audience, to the abduction of a certain Linda Censored. It appears he was later taxed with this strange lapse, and reportedly explained that he "had forgotten" to use her usual pseudonym of Linda Cortile. Oh dear. Now it is a rule of intelligence gathering always to try, at least, to confirm any incoming data directly or indirectly with other sources. Maybe, even, someone out there in Errolland can do so. If this is an accurate report, I find it strangely interesting for reasons of my own; because I have never been entirely sure whether the source of my confusion over Mrs Censored's real name was not Budd himself. (I spent some hours in his company on the day I first heard of this case, and naturally it [the case] came up in the conversation. Unfortunately I can't remember most of it, apart from Budd calling Phil Klass "cruel", and that we ended up swapping W.C. Fields jokes. These days, I carry a tape recorder.) If anyone thinks I'm being mildly facetious about Linda's name, one may well be right. After all, I'd hate to be accused again of being witty, this new wickedness to lay upon skeptics, and apparently an essential qualification for being a pest and altogether very horrid indeed. (Oh well - there goes the romance of the century.) Besides, I don't think I'm witty. I think I'm bloody hilarious, which explains why you can often see me doubled up with laughter in front of shop windows. So, back to the question of facetiousness. While (see above) I have no objection to "witness anonymity" in general, I find it quite bizarre that in this particular forum and in this particular case we are enjoined to observe a ritual fiction which everyone knows is a fiction and furthermore knows the fact of the matter. On one hand, this is even weirder than the doctrine of the Transubstantiation. On the other, it's not entirely dissimilar. It's playing Linda's game - one of several she deploys - which, perhaps, large numbers of people have decided to join because they can't bear the thought of offending her, or (perhaps worse) being put on her Black List of Wits; or perhaps they don't want to rock the long- since scuttled ship of ufology by admitting even the possibility that a Linda who is "surprisingly earthy" may also have feet of clay. (Or, more practically, perhaps they want to avoid being in receipt of her intriguing brand of vitriol, which makes it partly a game of blackmail.) Well, it's your choice. Time was when I felt some contrition over using Linda's name in print (having been beaten soundly for it by someone I won't embarrass by naming here either), but it's wearing off. Having seen Linda defend her anonymity and her twists and turns over the matter of money (to which I think she's welcome, by the way), the more I think this kind of magisterial tone-- >From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] >Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 09:20:53 PDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity >If we can no longer promise a witness anonymity because >down the line somebody may decree that he or she doesn't deserve >it, then let me be the first to urge that no UFO witnesses desiring >privacy step forward ever again. --is out of place in this instance. Because this case is a hard case and it makes bad law. (Jerry's logic is also wonky. At any rate, the first sentence doesn't make sense. All "we" can do is promise the anonymity, and hold to it. Who knows what someone else will think or do in the future? If someone else decides it's not deserved, that's no reason to break *our* promise, and if we keep it then we take no blame if someone rootles out and publishes a true name, for whatever good or bad reason of their own. Incidentally, when & why did Terence O'Leary voluntarily drop his pseudonym? Did anyone then re-investigate his part in the Larson case?) Hard cases make bad law. So grandiose are the claims in the Linda Censored case - a *witnessed* abduction, the alleged status of the Third Man, global ecology, attempted rape and murder, rioting less than mayhem, &c - that sooner or later someone was going to "out" Linda. Not least because we'd all like to know just how truthful this claimant is in other departments, and perhaps grimmer things besides. Budd Hopkins clearly did *not* investigate Linda. That's no reason why anyone else should take her word at face value, and if it should turn out she's been selling pork pies these last 8 years, that might shed some light on her desire for anonymity. And should anyone be shown to be a hoaxer on that scale, does he or she deserve anonymity? I'd have thought not. Naturally, Linda's tale might all be the lily-white truth. But, given the nature of the claims, what else Linda could have expected but a barrage of curiosity, some of it inevitably hostile (because the world does have Bad People in it), I cannot imagine. Nor do I think she is terribly naive; but then I'm very cynical, as well as unforgiveably witty. All of which - to return to where we started and show this hasn't been one long gratuitous digression - makes Rebecca's notion of a binding agreement or arbitration mechanism, or whatever, of some kind a propos witness anonymity less straightforward than it would be in an ideal world. Perhaps the real point is that researchers and investigators and reporters should make much more careful decisions about what kind of investment they are going to be put into a case - any case - before they make promises of anonymity to anyone. Publishing a series of amazing allegations, per se, is one thing. Adopting them as proof of your hypothesis (or deeply cherished faith) is another, and it's where many an innocent has already come gooily unstuck. Yours &c Paprika D. Mustardbath Ring Stinger PS (or plea): There are a lot of unanswered questions and good points lying about sadly unattended and undeveloped in the old 'Witness Anonymity' thread. They bear more on the nitty gritty problems of Linda's case than on what her name is. Mark Cashman's piece on hypnosis, for instance... Perhaps we could resurrect and chew those over under another thread title - er - Errol? Anyone? Search for other documents from or mentioning: 101653.2205 | xiannekei
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: 'Rods'? From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:17:29 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:15:26 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/19/97 10:09 PM: > Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 01:20:25 -0700 > From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) > To: Updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: 'Rods'? > Mark, > A high-end system like an Indigo or Onyx engine wouldn't even be > required to hoax this footage. I have an associate who could do it > easily with a Macintosh, Digital Video, Electric Image, and > Debabilizer. Even so that's neither here nor there as I wasn't > suggesting that I believed that Jose and Karen had hoaxed it for > reasons that I stated in an earlier post. In addition, I wasn't > meaning to suggest that my belief that Rods were not insects was based > on my descriptions of their motion. My reasons for believeing they > are not insects was stated at the beginning of my original post and > not in Roger's quoted fragment. I agree. I could do it here, too. But as I said, there's no special reason to look for that, unlike, for instance, the telltale signs in the recent crop circle formation video (problems with pretracking objects, etc.) In addition, the various people who also obtain these images would not necessarily have the expertise or even the low end equipment necessary to produce the animation and mix it with the video. I think the multiple people producing these images probably removes it from any "possible hoax" category. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: 'Rods'? From: "James A. Peters" <James_Peters@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 02:27:01 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:19:18 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? >Date: Wed, 17 Sep 97 17:29:00 >From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Rods'? >Could you consider perhaps with Karen's computer animation >experience and Jose's photography skills and film producing >skills... that what we have here is the possibility that this >rod film is computer animated? >I am only suggesting this as a possibility because of their >knowledge and thirst for the public spotlight... and their >film production business. >Roger Hi Roger, I've been investigating the rod phenomena since Jose and Karen moved to Colorado. I understand the skepticism regarding their film/video production experience and computer skills. That's one of the reasons I made an effort to contact them and see what was going on for myself. I don't know what rod footage you have seen. But I have seen over one hundred hours of rod footage, the majority of which was NOT taken by Jose. Initially, sure, most of the footage I saw was what Jose or Karen had taken. But in his "thirst for the public spotlight" the phenomena became more widely known. They had stumbled upon something for which they had no explanation. They wanted to know what other people had captured on video/film ( especially since it appears in such a fleeting manner and is easily passed off as insects ). They wanted to know what they are seeing. I would ask anyone who had stumbled onto something so strange and that had remained an enigma after close scrutiny if they wouldn't seek other opinions? As far as I'm concerned, if Jose and Karen hadn't had the video/film experience that they have, they would have never noticed the rods to begin with. They had captured insects on tape/film frequently, but this didn't look the same.. Back when I first started my investigation, we were looking at a lot of footage that was questionable. A little of it was very good. Enough to convince me as to the validity of what was being recorded as being something I've never seen or heard of before. At the higher shutter speeds, rods and insects are distinguishablefrom each other. Jose has footage taken by the same camera/settings that clearly show insects/birds and also show rods. Sometimes insects are so clear that you can say "that looks like a fly" or "that looks like a bee." Then the rod comes by and you go "what the... ." Yes, Jose has editing equipment in his basement and the technology/ability to generate video animation. But some of this has been used to analyze the tapes. Also, if you just knew the volume of the material that has been sent to Jose you would realize that Jose wouldn't have time to eat if he was hoaxing this material. Jose is presenting this to everyone to investigate themselves. Does that sound like the motivation of a hoaxer? Yes, Jose has been seeking money. Money to put it where his mouth is. In working with Jose, early on, we knew that we needed better data to answer our questions surrounding rods. First, we needed the best data available which led to his "skyfishing" protocol. That started bringing in better quality amateur tapes. Then after his "thirst for the spotlight,", that lead to the production quality videos that came from outside souces. Needless to say, the quality of the rod images greatly increased. But instead of looking more like insects, they started to reveal more details of the structure of the rods. Size, speed, and structure become much more defined. To show the rods to be a truly unique phenomena to the world, we knew we needed something even better. We know that rods are more common than we initially thought. We know that some areas are rod "hot spots," like the cave in Mexico. We needed video evidence that would give us more information regarding the distance, velocity, and size of these objects. Hence the synchronized, calibrated, stereo camera configuration. Its an expensive proposition. So any fund raising efforts by Jose and Karen for the rods expedition should be held in the light of clearly bringing the best data focused on this phenomena. Jose has openly invited "skeptics" to join the expedition for them to monitor the process of the data collection. They can come with us and film along with us. Does this sound like a person eager for the spotlight just to get equipment? If Jose was able to animate quality rods in hundreds of hours of footage taken by other people, he wouldn't need this as a springboard for some kind of career goal. Industrial Light and Magic, Pixar, or Dreamworks would have already picked him up by now. Laters, James Peters Asst. State Director Colorado MUFON
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:28:08 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:20:17 -0400 Subject: Re: > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/19/97 10:19 PM: > Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 04:09:16 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez > Hi Mark, > You respond to Gregs account, > >Again, possibly a sign of an object at the extreme limits of > >visibility, possibly reflecting sun for a period, and then > >banking or otherwise redirecting the reflection elsewhere. > Nope. Wasn't hard to see at all. It was about the same apparent size > and brightness as Jupiter when seen in the night sky. Greg didn't see > it right away because he didn't know what he was looking for or where. > I had to carefully point it out to him but when he finally spotted it > it didn't require any squinting or straining to see the thing. It was > very bright and perfectly stationary. I had the roofline of my house > and an antenna for reference points. I never use clouds for that purpose > because they are usually in motion themselves. I always look to place > a fixed object in my view of whatever I'm looking at. It's not always > possible of course but I managed to this time. This was an unconventional > object that was hovering in one spot and then suddenly disappeared. It > did not diminish in size or brightness it just wasn't there from one second > to the next. I'll just point out that the object could have been moving directly toward or away from you and would have thus appeared to be stationary. The brightness you describe is about the same as my observation of an aircraft reflecting sunlight. A slight change in angle, as I'm sure you know, can cause a reflection to disappear. It would seem, in any event, that the object was reflecting the sun, whether an aircraft or not, and the apparent disappearance could certainly be a result of the object changing attitude. But, as I mentioned before, you can see here the difficulty in attempting to determine the "unknown" nature of the sighting. Given the description, the object could be a metallic balloon which burst, an aircraft which was flying toward or away, and then banked... Unfortunately, it didn't do anything startling, and without measurments its tough to do more with it. But, of course, this is an example of the difficulty of trying to determine remotely if a sighting is "unknown". > >The fact that Greg's film did not come out is also an indication > >that the object was both on the limits of resolution, and was not > >quite sufficiently distinct from the brightness of the background > >as to be caught on film. > No Mark, you don't get it. NOTHING CAME OUT! It was as if the role had > never been exposed at all! Empty, no images at all anywhere. No UFO, > no buildings, no sky, no nothing. Zip, zero, zilch! My camera is > mechanically sound. I have to expose and develop some new pictures to see > if any problems exist with the equipment. Sorry. I should have read more closely. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com --------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 20 STRANGE UNIVERSE: THE ULTIMATE JOURNEY' From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 04:26:10 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:41:59 -0400 Subject: STRANGE UNIVERSE: THE ULTIMATE JOURNEY' These Questions are Answered on `STRANGE UNIVERSE: THE ULTIMATE JOURNEY,' As Television's Most talked About, Entertaining Syndicate Reality Show With The Fastest Growing Cult Following, Goes Prime Time! LOS ANGELES, Sept. 19 /PRNewswire/ -- STRANGE UNIVERSE is bringing its special brand of amazing reality to a one-hour prime time special across America starting Saturday, September 27 with STRANGE UNIVERSE: THE ULTIMATE JOURNEY. Among the stories featured on STRANGE UNIVERSE: THE ULTIMATE JOURNEY is an investigation into the growing Internet conspiracy theory that NASA is faking the Mars mission -- including the story behind an amazing transmission from Mars that seems to show a Budweiser bottle cap in the foreground. The conclusion will surprise you. It will also feature the exclusive, untold story of John Lennon's encounter with a UFO in New York City -- a sighting confirmed by NYPD records. May Pang, Lennon's companion at the time, speaks exclusively about what she and Lennon saw and reveals for the first time Lennon's actual pictures of the craft -- pictures she's kept locked away for twenty-three years. STRANGE UNIVERSE: THE ULTIMATE JOURNEY focuses on one of the strangest trends in human sexuality. Young women in America and Europe who don't want to be women, don't want to be men and through the use of science are turning themselves into something altogether different -- actually creating a THIRD SEX. In addition, STRANGE UNIVERSE: THE ULTIMATE JOURNEY showcases celebrities such as Laurence Fishburne, Harrison Ford, Robin Williams, Sinbad, Samuel L. Jackson and Cybill Shepherd speaking about their brushes with, belief in, or problems with the supernatural.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: 'Rods'? From: "James A. Peters" <James_Peters@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 04:34:29 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:43:46 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 97 12:42:19 pst >From: mdavis@ccsmtp.glycomed.COM (Davis, Michael) >To: updates@globalserve.net > Does anyone else see a striking resemblance between Jon Bro's stills and >Jose's 'rods'? They seem quite similar to me. some of John Bro's stills seem >to show motion blur in the shape of a 'cork screw' which on first impulse >resembles a helicopter rotor, unfortunate that the body of the object is >unfocused. Looks like a shutter speed issue? Hi Michael, Yes, I do see a striking resemblance between SOME of Jon Bro's stills and Jose's rods. Their techniques overlap in setting up the camcorder and letting it run. Jon seems to have captured some shots of rods. >Would it be worthwhile to try the following -- I believe that some >telescopes can be fitted with an adapter for 35mm still camera. Now that >there is an apparently consistent technique or method of capturing these >objects on film, an effort must be made to increase the shutter speeds >and get better close-ups; super telephoto lenses, super high-speed >cameras, etc. combined with triangulation techniques are in order! >Opinions? While rods might seem to be common to an area, there is no way of expecting to catch one on a single picture. Hence the current emphasis on video tape technology. When we know more about them, maybe we can set up specific cameras to capture stills. Laters, Jim Thanks, Michael Davis mdavis@glycomed.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 20 'Object Nuked?' over Nevada April 18 1962 From: wlmss@peg.apc.org [Lawrie Williams] Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 22:25:08 +1000 (GMT+1000) Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:46:48 -0400 Subject: 'Object Nuked?' over Nevada April 18 1962 Posted for common edification, discussion, confirmation, discussion, refutation or general procrastination. I found this and pieced it together from the source below. So far, nobody has been able to contribute. Could this be what "Area 51" is really all about? I wonder if there was also a sharp increase in abductions after this incident? lw/. TAG: 1962 Mothership Nuked over Nevada, U.S.A. TIME: 7.3O pm April 18 1962 DESCRIPTION: First sighted from Oneida, N.Y. A very large glowing red object at high altitude was seen headed across the American continent. It was confirmed on radar. A further sighting came in from Gridley, Kansas. NORAD spokesman at Colorado Lt Col. Herbert Rolph advised reporters that it was not a meteor. A spokesman at Nellis confirmed this. The Air Defence Command alerted bases including Nellis and Phoenix. There were further sightings from Montana and Utah. Jet fighter interceptors took off from Phoenix. The UFO passed directly over Nephi, Utah on an east-west course. Witnesses heard the thunder of fighter aircraft. A sudden blinding flash lit up the streets of Reno. It was seen from California where it was identified as a nuclear air-blast in Nevada. The object vanished from the radar screens at a point about 7O miles NW of Las Vegas. The flash was situated above the Mesquite Range. The craft was not seen again. A story carried by UP said an object had "landed" near the Eureka power station which had been put out of operation for about forty minutes. A spokesman at Stead AF base, Reno, confirmed this but used the term "impact" in relation to the object's coming to earth. It is likely a nearby EMP had knocked out the power station. The A.E.C. said no nuclear tests of any sort were being conducted. On April 30 1962 X-15 pilot J. Walker photographed 5 or 6 objects. On July 17 a further sighting of small craft was reported by X-15 pilot Maj R. White. They may have been searching for the mothership. The Las Vegas "Sun" investigated the story thoroughly and several other regional papers carried the news. ACKNOWLEDGE: Lawrie Williams wlmss@peg.apc.org REFERENCE: [Frank Edwards "Strange World" Ace N.Y. 1964.]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: More Military Jet Crashes From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 09:48:26 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:48:09 -0400 Subject: Re: More Military Jet Crashes >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) >Subject: More military jet crashes. >Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 17:29:11 EST It would be interesting to know if it is only the USA which is experiencing these. Has anyone on the list heard of military aircraft crashes or incidents in other countries in the last few weeks? Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze From: galevy@pipeline.com [Gary Alevy] Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 10:08:32 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:49:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze > From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:12:14 -0500 > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Paper on Gulf Breeze. > The information I have regarding Ed Walters and his hoaxed photos was > presented to Bruce Maccabee and Don Ware in 1992 and most recently > Walt Andrus and Dennis Stacy. It has been dismissed...ignored > ...because it is proof of the hoax and it is embarrassing. > In fairness, when I presented this to Andrus eight months ago, I told > him that I was giving him the opportunity to bring this forward > himself, especially since he made the statement in the MUFON Journal > that if any new evidence surfaced that they would be the first to > print it. I also > told him that if he ignored me I would make this info very public. > So I am not doing anything behind anyone's back. > This is a simple request. I have been censored. That means that YOU > don't have what you need to make up your own minds using all the info > available. You were given just so much and no more, just like the > censorship of the regular media. I am asking that people with web > sites, from any country, contact me personally and allow me to send > you the paper and if you think what I have presented is reasonable, > thought out > and well presented, then put it on your site so it can be read by all. > Yes, the case is ten years old, but truth is timeless. > Thanks, > BB Barbara, Why don't you post your paper to this list. If you don't after all the claims you have made I imagine that readers will begin to categorize you with Kal Korff. I would imagine that would be better than having it suppressed. Certainly Errol is very accomodating of a wide range of view points on UFO Update and has posted articles of substantial size. Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: More Military Jet Crashes From: stenger@spindle.net (Sharolyn Stenger) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 09:44:30 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:53:03 -0400 Subject: Re: More Military Jet Crashes >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) >Subject: More military jet crashes. >Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 17:29:11 EST >I just saw some breaking news that a B-1 bomber has crashed. They didn't >have many details to offer yet. >Does anyone have a total of how many military jets have crashed in the last >2 weeks? Last night on ABC news they said it was 6 in a 7 day period! Sharolyn
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions From: nick@emailme.at.address.below (Nick Humphries) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 15:14:26 GMT Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:54:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions On Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:49:44 -0400, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:39:28 +0200 (MET DST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: Scientific American explains abductions >Hi all, >Guess what. Elizabeth "false memory" Loftus has written an article >in the September issue of Scientific American that says that >alien abductions are all a trick of the mind. Not quite true - I don't think she even mentioned aliens at all (this IS a science journal after all), but concentrated on high-fear situations like abuse. And her research IS very interesting and raises several questions relating to abductee research, specifically the investigation techniques of abduction researchers. >Anyone with scoop marks, X-rays and CAT-scans care to react? >John Velez, perhaps? You can send letters to editors@sciam.com You make it sound like SciAm just made a huge attack on abductees - you're overreacting more than a tad. >I have considered writing myself, but I'm afraid I don't have the >time. Have you any objections to her research, or do you just not like the abductee boat to be rocked? ------------------------------------------------------- Nick Humphries, nick@the-den.clara.net, at your service If the Truth is Out There, what's In Here? ------------------------------------------------------- The Your Sinclair Rock'n'Roll Years http://www.the-den.clara.net/ys/cover.htm -------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: More Military Jet Crashes From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 17:27:01 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:56:44 -0400 Subject: Re: More Military Jet Crashes >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) >Subject: More military jet crashes. >Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 17:29:11 EST >I just saw some breaking news that a B-1 bomber has crashed. They didn't >have many details to offer yet. >Does anyone have a total of how many military jets have crashed in the last >2 weeks? I don't know if I have all of them, but this is a start: . F-117 Nighthawk crashed during air show. Cause unknown. Some part fell off and the plane became uncontrollable. . C-141 Starflifter crashed off the coast of Namibia in the Atlantic Ocean. Collision with German military transport aricraft. Cause probably insufficient air control infrastructure in Africa. . The B-1. Cause unknown. I have heard rumors of more, but I can't keep up. __________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Technology Pages http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp \______________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: More Military Jet Crashes From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 08:30:19 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:57:42 -0400 Subject: Re: More Military Jet Crashes > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) > Subject: More military jet crashes. > Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 17:29:11 EST > I just saw some breaking news that a B-1 bomber has crashed. They didn't > have many details to offer yet. > > Does anyone have a total of how many military jets have crashed in the last > 2 weeks? > > Tom King, Skywatcher > Arizona Skywatch director Hello Tom, The news this morning mentions that there had been 6 crashes in the past one week. The latest one follows just one or two days after all military flights were suspended for a day in order that persons involved could ponder the situation. Is there a mathematician here who could calculate the odds that this is due to "chance," given a reasonable figure for the average number of such crashes per year? I am one who keeps the possibility in mind that the crashes were caused by purposeful UFO interventions, perhaps because our government is not cooperating with some sort of possible UFO negotiations in which it may have been engaged. In this scenario, the disappearance of the military jet in Arizona a few months back, and the supposed later recovery of crash debris in S.W. Colorado, but not of bombs or body, might be connected. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: More Military Jet Crashes From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 10:33:52 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 08:27:06 -0400 Subject: Re: More Military Jet Crashes > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) > Subject: More military jet crashes. > Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 17:29:11 EST > I just saw some breaking news that a B-1 bomber has crashed. They didn't > have many details to offer yet. > Does anyone have a total of how many military jets have crashed in the last > 2 weeks? I had said: "The news this morning mentions that there had been 6 crashes in the past one week. The latest one follows just one or two days after all military flights were suspended for a day in order that persons involved could ponder the situation. "Is there a mathematician here who could calculate the odds that this is due to "chance," given a reasonable figure for the average number of such crashes per year?" I read today that the U.S. moratorium on military training flights hasn't yet taken place, but will do so on Monday. And it turns out it doesn't take a real mathematician or statistician to calculate the odds of this having occurred due to random chance. I don't know how many crashes per year we typically have. Let's say it's 36.5 crashes, to make the arithmetic simpler. Then the odds of a crash occurring on any one day of the year is 0.1, or 36.5/365. So if you had 6 crashes on successive days, the odds for that would be 0.1x0.1x0.1x0.1x0.1 = 1/100,000. (One doesn't count the first crash, which initiated the string.) The odds of not having a crash on any one day is 0.9. So if you had 6 crashes in 7 days, with no crash on the 4th day, say, the odds for that would be nearly the same: 0.1x0.1x0.9x0.1x0.1x0.1, or 1 in 90,000. These are pretty slim odds, though you'd expect it to happen one time in about 247 years (247 being 90,000/365). This is rare enough to make one suspect some sort of sabotage. But I don't know if the 36 crashes per year figure is in the right ballpark or not. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: ACC - Press Release From the PR Department From: RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates] Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:37:43 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 08:29:36 -0400 Subject: Re: ACC - Press Release From the PR Department > From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 12:16:42 +0200 > Subject: ACC: Press Release From the PR Department > Received from the "Skywatch" mailing list: > ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- > Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:43:15 -0500 (CDT) > From: mailbox@ix.netcom.com > To: skywatch@phoenix.net > Subject: AMERICAN COMPUTER website now has Enhanced > Pictolography, Additional News, Letters, and Information > After this brief precis, I have enclosed a press release, American > Computer asked me to transfer to you for redeployment, if you see fit > (I think you should). > Here goes: > ----- > An even larger amplification of pictography on the Roswell matter > appears on American Computer Company's Website, updated today, 09/18/97: > http://www.american-computer.com > They say the color picture is 'inaccurate', but has the general outline > of the shape of an alleged Roswell UFO, according to their source, > and > http://www.compamerica.com/roswell.htm > which has new information and appendices on it. > I received an EMAIL indicating it was going to be refined on a weekly > basis with new submissions (added as annotations and as appendixes). > ---- > The ACC Public Relations department also provided the following: > "American is concerned with all of the speculation about the accuracy > vs. inaccuracy of the information on their website, and wants the > public to be aware:" > "None of the story on our Website is at the present time anything other > slightly more than speculation, nor should the public treat it as > 'proof' that a Space Craft landed in Roswell, New Mexico on July 7th As I mentioned in an earlier post, all we are dealing with is rumor and gossip and human nature. The Human nature part is "Well if it is posted on a WEB site, its the God's Gospel truth, never to be doubted especially if it validates some belief that I have. So like previous tales in the UFO world that appeared on the internet (April 24th, 1997 mass landings in the desert SW, Lee Shargel's Jan 24th, 1997 the earth is going to be bathed in ET radio waves and it would be a new beginning for humanity) we are going to add another called American Computers postings of a rumor gossip Roswell tale that American Computer says is "speculation" but other gulliable fools take as fact and get all hot and bothered about it. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: 'Rods'? From: Ted Viens <drtedv@smart1.net> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:54:01 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 08:31:39 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? > Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 09:16:21 -0400 > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Rods'? > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Date: Wed, 17 Sep 97 11:21:16 pst > >From: mdavis@ccsmtp.glycomed.COM (Davis, Michael) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Re: 'Rods'? > > Bob, Group, > > Provided the above flight speed info is accurate and combined > >with the technical photography info, can we make any educated assumptions > >as to weather the hypothetical insect would be in focus or out of focus? > > In other words, could we determine if a housefly traveling at > >35 mph, 15 feet from the camera lens and photographed at 1/10,000 would > >be in focus or blurry? Or do we need more specific information > >regarding f/stop settings, film type, lens size, etc.? > >Thanks, > >Michael Davis > >mdavis@glycomed.com > I must preface my reply with a caveat. I am not an expert in how > video cameras work. My knowledge is more in the realm of still cameras > and motion picture cameras, where we are dealing with mechanical > shutter mechanisms. > That being said, let me make a point about mechanical shutters. If > you have a 35 mm camera with a top shutter speed of 1/8,000 second > (about the fastest currently available) you might assume that the > shutter opens, stays open for 1/8,000 seconds, and then closes. Not so. > Mechanical limitations on acceleration of shutter mechanisms make the > fastest speed at which the shutter opens, times a speed, and then > closes only about 1/250 second. To achieve faster speeds, the shutter > fakes it. How does it do that? Simply by not opening all the way, but > by the two shutter blades or curtains forming a slit, and then scanning > this slit across the shorter axis of the image. This produces an > effective speed of 1/8,000 of a second, but the blades or curtains > really only move fast enough for 1/250 second. My point is that to > analyze moving subjects requires specialized, VERY expensive, cameras, > with shutters (these days usually liquid crystal shutters) which > really achieve the desired very short shutter speeds. > Another, easier, way to freeze action is with a high-speed flash. Dr. > John Cooke, an Entomologist I know in London, devised just such a flash > to study the wing action of insects in flight. It produces, if I recall > correctly, flash durations as short as 1/50,000 second. However, equipment > like this is costly to build, and dangerous if not built very carefully > due to the high voltages stored in the capacitors. The commercial > flash based on John's design sells for something like 10,000 English > pounds. > The highs speed cameras using cine film or video that are made for > industrial and scientific analysis of high speed phenomena might be > useful for analysing the rod phenomenon, but, again, you are talking > lots of money to buy or rent them. And this equipment is not easy > to use. > Now on the question of standard video cameras. Jose has not yet > answered my question about which brand(s) and model(s) of video > camera(s) he is using. So I can't be specific. > I called the tech department of one of the major makers of video > cameras yesterday and got some basic information on how they work. > Remember my explanation above about how mechanical shutters "fake" > high speeds by slit scanning? Well it seems that standard video > cameras do the same thing, but do it electronically. I was told that > all consumer video cameras use what is called a "progressive scanning > CCD" sensor. When you set the camera for, say, 1/10,000 second, you don't > really get 1/10,000 second any more than with a still camera. The sensor > is scanned electronically, so that each scan line produces an effective > speed of 1/10,000. So whether a moving subject will be blurred or not > depends on the fastest "real" shutter speed of the camera, which is > something like 1/100 second on most models. > My opinion based on this information is that we will not be able > to definitively answer the question of what these things are without > a very well funded research project. My expectation of the funding > of such a project being worthwhile is not very high. > Bob Shucks Bob, good help is so hard to find. Of course, your explanation of film shutter systems reflects your knowledge and years of experience. However, the Tech at the video place was mixing technologies. Before I go into the technical explanation, we will do a reality check. Get a camcorder with a high speed shutter. Videotape a very fast moving object at the highest shutter speed (propeller, fan blade, etc.) Play back the tape and pause. Chances are better than 95% you will see an undistorted short exposure, very still image. The full frame freeze image will be carried to the monitor in an interlaced field, scanned line system. Now I will attempt my off the top of the head technical explanation. The CCD array is a planar two dimensional sensor composed of pixels. Although there are older technologies, today, the photo receptors are switched on and off concurrently. When they are switched on, they start accumulating charge in relationship to the incidental light. At the end of the exposure period, the charge is transferred to each pixel's storage capacitor, and the photo pixel grounded to zero its charge. The pixel prepares for its next cycle and the transfer capacitor is now read by the complex circuitry that changes the image into a video signal and then it is grounded to zero its charge. The exposure time of the sensor is the time from when the pixel is ungrounded to allow it to accumulate charge to the time the charge is dumped to the transfer capacitor. The signals to accumulate charge in the pixels and to transfer them to the capacitors are given in parallel to the whole array. This allows solid state video sensors to generate very high speed freeze frames. Apparently the tech you spoke with was attempting to also describe the following processes of turning the pixel charges into a video signal. This is a very complex scanning process. Fortunately, it is usually done after the high speed, full frame is captured. If anyone is unsure about their camcorder, then, dog gone it, do a reality check and videotape a propeller at the highest shutter speed. Check some freeze frames and discover whether or not the propeller image is undistorted. Bye... Ted.. Search for other documents from or mentioning: drtedv | 76750.2717 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: UFO sighting with John Velez From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 16:50:44 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 08:33:07 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez > Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:28:08 -0700 > > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/19/97 10:19 PM: > > Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 04:09:16 -0500 > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez > > Hi Mark, > > You respond to Gregs account, > > >Again, possibly a sign of an object at the extreme limits of > > >visibility, possibly reflecting sun for a period, and then > > >banking or otherwise redirecting the reflection elsewhere. > > Nope. Wasn't hard to see at all. It was about the same apparent size > > and brightness as Jupiter when seen in the night sky. snipped for brevity....... Hello John, Mark, EBK and list, > >I had the roofline of my house > > and an antenna for reference points. I never use clouds for that purpose > > because they are usually in motion themselves. I always look to place > > a fixed object in my view of whatever I'm looking at. It's not always > > possible of course but I managed to this time. This was an unconventional > > object that was hovering in one spot and then suddenly disappeared. Snipped again..... Perhaps John, you could give us an idea of how large a portion of the sky is visible to you and your field of view. > I'll just point out that the object could have been moving directly > toward or away from you and would have thus appeared to be stationary. I went into some detail on an earlier submission as to how difficult the above would be to appear to remain stationary if the lateral to horizontal field of view was restricted while explaining the problems of bringing an aircraft down at such a steep angle in N.Y. airspace. So again I would ask John is/was your view very restricted, or somewhat restricted vertically, or do you have a more expansive field of view? regards, Don Ledger Search for other documents from or mentioning: dledger | mcashman |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: More Military Jet Crashes From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 21:06:47 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 08:34:23 -0400 Subject: Re: More Military Jet Crashes >Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 08:30:19 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: More Military Jet Crashes >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) >> Subject: More military jet crashes. >> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 17:29:11 EST >I am one who keeps the possibility in mind that the crashes were caused by >purposeful UFO interventions, perhaps because our government is not >cooperating with some sort of possible UFO negotiations in which it may >have been engaged. In this scenario, the disappearance of the military >jet in Arizona a few months back, and the supposed later recovery of crash >debris in S.W. Colorado, but not of bombs or body, might be connected. >Jim Deardorff Come on, Jim, let's consider the prosaic explanations first. It has been in the news for quite a while that the USAF has a shortage of pilots because they leave for civilian jobs. Perhaps that means that 1. their aircraft are now flown by less experienced personnel and 2. ground personnel also leave for civilian jobs, so that maintenance and flight scheduling are now less than perfect. Btw. it would not surprise if that will become the official conclusion drawn by the USAF, in order to get more funding. __________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Technology Pages http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp \______________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 21:06:45 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 08:35:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions >From: nick@emailme.at.address.below (Nick Humphries) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions >Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 15:14:26 GMT >On Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:49:44 -0400, you wrote: >>Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:39:28 +0200 (MET DST) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >>Subject: Re: Scientific American explains abductions >>Hi all, >>Guess what. Elizabeth "false memory" Loftus has written an article >>in the September issue of Scientific American that says that >>alien abductions are all a trick of the mind. >Not quite true - I don't think she even mentioned aliens at all (this IS a >science journal after all), but concentrated on high-fear situations like >abuse. And her research IS very interesting and raises several questions >relating to abductee research, specifically the investigation techniques of >abduction researchers. >Have you any objections to her research, or do you just not like the abductee >boat to be rocked? Both. __________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Technology Pages http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp \______________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: More Military Jet Crashes From: ashill@dnc.net (Angela Shilling) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:15:53 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 08:36:31 -0400 Subject: Re: More Military Jet Crashes At 08:27 AM 9/20/97 -0400, you wrote: >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) >Subject: More military jet crashes. >Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 17:29:11 EST >I just saw some breaking news that a B-1 bomber has crashed. They didn't >have many details to offer yet. >Does anyone have a total of how many military jets have crashed in the last >2 weeks? 09/19/1997 22:54 EST Air Force To Ground Flights Monday By EUN-KYUNG KIM Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Air Force will ground all combat training flights Monday as part of a service-wide safety review in the wake of four crashes of its planes in the past week, officials said Friday night. The standdown had been scheduled for next Friday, but officials moved it up four days after a B-1 bomber on a training mission crashed in Montana, killing all four crew members aboard. The Navy, Marine Corps and Army are allowing local commanders to determine when they will conduct a similar one-day halt during the week. Navy and Marine Corps fighter jets also have crashed in the past week. ``We need to determine why these incidents happened and how to prevent more mishaps,'' said Gen. Richard E. Hawley, commander of the Air Combat Command at Langley Air Force Base in Hampton, Va. ``We will look at every facet across the spectrum of our operations and zero in on the risks associated with each tasks,'' Hawley said. ``Then we will review the way we train, identify ways risks can be eliminated or minimized and take the actions necessary to mitigate those risks.'' President Clinton, meanwhile ``continues to have the highest confidence in the United States Air Force and all of our military services,'' the White House said in a statement after the B-1 crash Friday. An Air Force C-141 transport plane flying from Namibia apparently collided with a German military plane off the coast of Africa last Saturday. One body was recovered and 32 people are missing. The next day, an Air Force F-117A stealth fighter flying at an air show near a Baltimore suburb crashed in a residential area after a piece of the plane broke off. And two Air National Guard F-16s collided Tuesday off the coast of New Jersey; one crashed into the Atlantic, the other landed safely. The three pilots survived. Those plus the crashes of a Navy FA-18 in Oman last Sunday and a Marine FA-18d Hornet in North Carolina on Monday prompted Defense Secretary William Cohen on Wednesday to order all of the services to halt training flights for one day next week. Pentagon spokesman Kenneth Bacon said Thursday the services want as many squadrons as possible on operational missions to hold safety reviews.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: More Military Jet Crashe From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 17:31:35 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 08:39:38 -0400 Subject: Re: More Military Jet Crashe > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: stenger@spindle.net (Sharolyn Stenger) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: More Military Jet Crashes > Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 09:44:30 -0500 > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >From: xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) > >Subject: More military jet crashes. > >Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 17:29:11 EST > >I just saw some breaking news that a B-1 bomber has crashed. They > >didn't have many details to offer yet. > >Does anyone have a total of how many military jets have crashed in the last > >2 weeks? > Last night on ABC news they said it was 6 in a 7 day period! > Sharolyn It's still safer than driving on the Freeway. It's not unusual for these crashes to come in clumps like this and where the Air Forces are concerned the chances of accidents goes up due to the nature of their flying work and their need to fly in formations when not doing exercises. Flying in formation as was the case with the two F-14s, or was it 15s, that crashed several days ago, the wingman has to line up on two reference points on the lead aircraft and watches only those two points to maintain a perfect formation. The lead pilot only has to insure that he or she does not fly the both of them into something. The USAF's Thunderbirds' lead pilot suffered a heart attack about ten years ago during a loop at an airshow and flew straight into the ground taking his three wingman with him. Keep me posted on the B-1. Don
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze From: DONFEII@aol.com [Don Ecker] Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 15:39:22 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 08:42:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze To All; Approx. one week ago I sent private email to Ms. Barbara Becker with a request to look at the information she stated she had, for a possible story to be run in UFO Magazine. As of this days date, 09/20/97, I have not had any word from Ms. Becker, nor did she acknowledge my email to her. At this point, one begins to wonder if her "proof" would bear the scrutiny of a non-biased reviewer. Don Ecker UFO Magazine www.ufomagazine.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: More Military Jet Crashes From: Masinaigan@aol.com [Joseph Trainor] Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 15:57:06 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 08:44:54 -0400 Subject: Re: More Military Jet Crashes Just a comment on Bob Shell's post... On Monday, September 8, at 9 p.m., at least 10 French Mirage 2000 interceptors were seen flying over Nancy, Metz and Pont au Mousson in the department of Meurthe et Moselle (eastern France). No explanation of the maneuvers was given by l'Armee de l'Air, and nothing was reported in the French media. The maneuvers followed UFO sightings in the area. No word on any lost aircraft, though. On Wednesday, September 17, at 8:30 p.m., a UFO bearing "four strange lights" appeared over the village of Ceja de El Alto, north of La Paz, capital of Bolivia. This is high up in the Andes at an altitude of 4,000 meters (13,200 feet). Again, no word on any missing aircraft, but the saucers have been very busy overseas this past month.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: More Military Jet Crashes From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 18:13:49 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 08:52:19 -0400 Subject: Re: More Military Jet Crashes > Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 08:30:19 -0700 (PDT) > From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: More Military Jet Crashes > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > From: xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) > > Subject: More military jet crashes. > > Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 17:29:11 EST > > I just saw some breaking news that a B-1 bomber has crashed. They didn't > > have many details to offer yet. > > Does anyone have a total of how many military jets have crashed in the last > > 2 weeks? > > Tom King, Skywatcher > > Arizona Skywatch director > Hello Tom, > The news this morning mentions that there had been 6 crashes in the past > one week. The latest one follows just one or two days after all military > flights were suspended for a day in order that persons involved could > ponder the situation. > Is there a mathematician here who could calculate the odds that this is > due to "chance," given a reasonable figure for the average number of > such crashes per year? Two years ago the same thing happened here in Canada on the Labour Day weekend. A British Nimrod crashed into Lake Ontario during an airshow. Six people were klled when their light twin went into the mountains in British Columbia, a Huey went into the woods near Cold Lake, Alberta and a Lake 4A Anphibian went into the trees at my Fly-In in Nova Scotia, 2 killed and one seriously injured. At the same time 4 women were killed when their Cessna crashed on takeoff at Portland, Maine and several more were killed in another light twin in Michigan and if memory serves, another light twin crashed near L.A. Bad, bad weekend. These things seem to happen in clumps. > I am one who keeps the possibility in mind that the crashes were caused by > purposeful UFO interventions, perhaps because our government is not > cooperating with some sort of possible UFO negotiations in which it may > have been engaged. In this scenario, the disappearance of the military > jet in Arizona a few months back, and the supposed later recovery of crash > debris in S.W. Colorado, but not of bombs or body, might be connected. Jim Deardorff I don't think any of these recent military crashes have a UFO connection Jim but that's not to say they don't. But the last you mentioned jarred my memory. It was an A-10 Thunderbold [dubbed a "Warthog" by their pilots] and as you mentioned they found the A-10 but not the pilot, and I'm not sure about the bombs it was carrying. Anybody out there got any more news on this one? Regards, Don Ledger Search for other documents from or mentioning: dledger | deardorj |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: More Military Jet Crashes From: Stuart & Toni Livesey <livesey@trump.net.au> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 07:19:53 +1000 Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 08:58:39 -0400 Subject: Re: More Military Jet Crashes >Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 09:48:26 -0400 >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: More Military Jet Crashes >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) >>Subject: More military jet crashes. >>Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 17:29:11 EST >It would be interesting to know if it is only the USA which is >experiencing these. Has anyone on the list heard of military >aircraft crashes or incidents in other countries in the last >few weeks? >Bob None in Australia Stuart Search for other documents from or mentioning: livesey | 76750.2717 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 21 Robert Bigelow information? From: b-dole@juno.com (Brent Dole) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 16:42:10 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 09:00:22 -0400 Subject: Robert Bigelow information? ISO --- Robert Bigelow information Does anyone on this list have any information on Robert Bigelow, the person who funds paranormal research? He is linked to Bob Lazar the infamous Area 51 employee that escaped with his life. They both are said to live in Las Vegas, Nevada. They both work in or around the city as well, from the information I have. What I need is an e-mail address, home address, work address, or phone number for Mr. Bigelow. If anyone has any information that could be of help please feel free to contact me at this address, thanks. B-DOLE@juno.com (Brent Dole)
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: More military jet crashes From: CFQ2@aol.com [Charles Quinn] Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 18:44:35 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 09:03:11 -0400 Subject: Re: More military jet crashes >To:UFO updates-Toronto<updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jim Deardorff<deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >date: Saturday 20 Sept. 1997 08:30:19 >Subject: More military jet crashes <snip> >I am one who keeps the possibility in mind that the crashes >were caused by purposeful UFO interventions, perhaps because >our government is not cooperating with some sort of UFO >negotiations in which they have engaged... I totally agree !! The B-1B bomber attack plane that went down in Montana had a Lt. Col. at the controls, with 2 majors and a captain on board. The plane is a 200 million dollar assault vehicle. Why such brass on board, literally the cream of the crop? What were they in pursuit of? Dick Wesnick in a story to the New York Times( he is the editor of the Billings Montana gazette) flew over the crash site within one hour and saw a huge mile long trench where the craft hit the ground but not a single solitary piece of the plane---not a tail- not a piece of the fuselage- not a wing- not a human body. WOW!!!!! Two F-15 fighter jets collide in mid-air (that's the cover story) off the coast of Atlantic City. how is this possible? Earlier in the week a C-141 cargo plane (U.S. flag) allegedly hits a German plane off the coast of Africa 325 miles west of Angola. How possible in broad daylight??? the German plane is the Russian Made TUPOLEV, fashioned during the cold war by east germany as a spy plane with ultra-secret and very sophisticated aerial reconnaisance equipment on it. The plane was carrying German marines on board. How does such a plane crash into a huge cargo plane in broad daylite in the South Atlantic. Deardorff is right. Colonel Corso in his book THE DAY AFTER ROSWELL alluded to the fact that we have been attacking UFOs since 1974 when we shot one donwn in Ramstein Germany. This is mighty "heady" stuff. I believe that aliens are now dumping military aircraft out of our skies
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 21 Lennon's UFO Experience From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 02:12:10 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 09:39:44 -0400 Subject: Lennon's UFO Experience September 20 Rebecca forwarded a message from PRNewswire concerning 'Encounters' feature on John Lennon's UFO experience. The sighting occurred when he was with his personal secretary, May Pang, in New York, at the time when he and Yoko Ono were separated. Lennon refers to the experience on the cover of his album "Walls And Bridges", which was released in 1974, saying that he saw a UFO on August 23. 'Encounters' I haven't seen myself, but August 31 I found this informative comment which was posted to the newsgroup "rec.music.beatles". Sorry about the delay. *** From amaranth56@aol.com (Amaranth56) at AOL http://www.aol.com Date: 31 Aug 1997 21:42:57 GMT Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles References: 1 >"Mark " <*nospam*> wrote: >Chris wrote: > > Just saw a commercial for a show called Strange >>Universe >> http://www.strangeuniverse.com >>and on Monday Sept. 1 they're supposed to have a story >>on a UFO sighting John Lennon had. All I heard was a >>snippet of an interview with Lennon in which he said >>he was looking at something a hundred yards away, and >>he realized it was a UFO. >> Anybody have any further info on the incident they're referring to? (snip) May Pang tells about this in her book, 'Loving John'. John wasn't out with anyone--he and May were in their upper East side apartment when John saw what he believe to be a UFO and called May over to the window to see it, too. Supposedly, there were several reports that night of the sighting. Who knows? (snip) 19970831214201.RAA00693@ladder01.news.aol.com *** "Amaranth56" is absolutely right. The July '96 issue of the British UFO magazine "Alien Encounters" tells May Pang's story in quotes presumably taken from her book, unfortunately without referring to the source (issue 9, p. 53): "We had just ordered up some pizzas and since it was such a warm evening, we decided to step out on the terrace," recalled Pang. "There were no windows directly facing us from across the street, so John just stepped outside with nothing on, in order to catch a cool breeze that was coming in right off the East River. I remember I was just inside the bedroom getting dressed when John started shouting for me to come out on the terrace. I yelled back that I would be right there but he kept screaming for me to join him in that instant. As I walked out onto the terrace, my eye caught this large, circular object coming towards us. It was shaped like a flattened cone and on top was a large, brilliant red light, not pulsating as on any of the aircraft we'd see heading for a landing at Newark Airport. When it came a little closer, we could make out a row or circle of white lights that ran around the entire rim of the craft - these were also flashing on and off. There were so many of these lights that it was dazzling to the mind. It was, I estimate, about the size of a Lear jet and it was so close that if we had something to throw at it, we probably would have hit it quite easily." Eerily, the object passed by. "We often had helicopters flying above us but this was as silent as the night and about seventeen storeys above street level." The object flew off but returned later, by which time she and Lennon had set up a telescope through which they could view it in more detail. "The light was so brilliant coming from the craft that no additional details could be seen. We did take a couple of pictures but they turned out overexposed." They also rang a local newspaper to report the sighting and were told at least seven other people had seen the UFO too. "We even called the police, that's how excited we were, and they told us to keep calm, that others had seen it too."
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 22:29:31 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 09:16:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality Adding to the documentary evidence detailed by George Fergus, the following is taken from "Out of the Crystal Maze", edited by Lillian Hoddeson, Ernest Braun, Jurgen Teichmann and Spencer Weart. The editors are eminent physicists, who specialise in the history of the science. Hoddeson notably obtained a Ph.D in physics with a dissertation in solid-state physics and between 1974-1979, researched solid-state advancements at Bell Laboratories which led to the development of the transistor. The book endeavours to document the history of solid-state physics and contains much information which is relevant to the history of the transistor. These extracts are taken from various sections in the book and the references are as originally quoted: After the war, scientists began drifting back to civilian employment, and industrial laboratories began to forge their plans for a big surge of peacetime scientific and engineering progress. The first institutional department to take the whole range of solid-state physics as its field, and even formally as its name, was at Bell Telephone Laboratories. Bell Labs decided to undertake a major effort in research on semiconducting elements, which meant in practice germanium and silicon. The idea was, of course, one which had been around in so many minds for so long - to produce a solid-state amplifier. [...] This was not, however, a development program. It was a program of basic scientific research into the properties of germanium and silicon, albeit undertaken in the hope of obtaining devices useful to the Bell system. The work was to be based on knowledge gained during the war at Bell Labs and elsewhere, and was to establish continuity with prewar Bell activities in the field of semiconductors. As early as 1938, far-sighted director of research, Mervin Kelly, had established a little group in "Physics of the Solid State". By early 1945, Kelly was explaining that with the coming of quantum mechanics, "a unified approach to all our solid state problems offers great promise", and in July he formed the Solid State Physics Department. [1] Kelly and William Shockley co-headed the division, Shockley being the head of the semiconductor research group. The first idea to be tried out more thoroughly was an old one - that is, the modulation of the conductivity of a thin layer of semiconductor material by the application of an electric field perpendicular to the flow of current. This "field effect" had been suggested and tried in numerous unworkable inventions before... [...] Although the ultimate emergence from Bell Labs of the solid-state amplifier - in the shape of the point contact transistor - contained an element of serendipity, it is true to say that it was the deserved reward for years of painstaking, knowledgeable and conscious effort. In the late 1930s, William Shockley suggested a design for a field-effect solid state amplifier and Brattain carried out the experiments, but, like all other attempts of this ilk at that time, it did not work. In fact the number of people who tried to produce solid-state amplifiers grows steadily as one probes further. Another Bell man, Russell S. Ohl, recalls: "In fact, I took out a patent in which I controlled (on paper), the electron current in a copper oxide rectifier. This was 1927... many people had the same thought. [2] Ohl was also one of the pioneers of the crystal detector and certainly played an important part in the transistor story. Ralph Bray, a young graduate student, joined the germanium effort at Purdue in November 1943 and was given the tricky task of measuring the spreading resistance at the metal-semiconductor contact. [...] Bray found a great many anomalies, such as internal high-resistivity barriers in some samples of germanium. The most curious phenomenon was the exceptionally low resistance observed when voltage pulses were applied. This effect remained a mystery because nobody realised, until 1948, that Bray had observed minority carrier injection - the effect that was identified at Bell Labs and made the transistor a reality. Bray wrote: "That was the one aspect that we missed, but even had we understood the idea of minority carrier injection...we would have said, 'Oh, this explains our effects.' We might not necessarily have gone ahead and said, 'Let's start making transistors', open up a factory and sell them... At that time the important device was the high back voltage rectifier". [3] Another Purdue scientist, Randall Whaley, put the matter in a nutshell: "The irony of the whole thing is that two or three of us were occasionally around lunch asking ourselves, 'Why can't we put a grid on this and make a triode of it to control the electrons?' But in the press of getting degrees and putting detectors together for MIT, we didn't take the next step and try this" [4] The greatest practical success of the Purdue group was in developing high back-voltage diodes. Seymour Benzer made a first step toward stable diodes by accidentally welding the metal whisker to the geranium. [...] This work occupied much of the time at Purdue and until the device was handed over to Bell Labs and Western Electric for mass production in late summer of 1944. Thus germanium detectors became a real product and the type of material used for their production was also used for the first transistors to emerge from Bell Labs three years later. The required modification of theory was undertaken by John Bardeen, at Bell Laboratories. His postulate was that the carriers included in the semiconductor by the electrostatic field (the field effect) failed to modulate its conductivity because they became trapped and immobilized in surface states. Although Bardeen's suggestion proved of decisive value and had some important novel features, it was not without precursors. As early as 1932, I. Tamm calculated that the termination of one-dimensional Kronig-Penney potential led to a surface state when a periodic structure is terminated. [5] [...] In 1939, Shockley postulated surface states arising if two electronic bands within a finite periodic structure intersect. [6] Bardeen concluded that the failure of the field-effect amplifier must be caused by the fact that the charge carriers induced by the applied field became immobilized in surface states, whether on a clean or a dirty surface, and could not contribute to the conductivity. "The novel feature was not the idea of surface states..., but to apply the idea to understand the real surface of a semiconductor". [7] After several further stages of experimentation, mainly by Brattain and Bardeen, aided by the chemist Gibney, a germanium surface was prepared by anodizing it and evaporating gold spots onto the oxide. Transistor action was first observed on 15 December 1947, when "it was found that current flowing in the forward direction from one contact influenced the current flowing in the reverse direction in a neighbouring contact in such a way as to produce voltage amplification". In the memorandum by W. S. Gorton [8], from which this quotation is taken, 12 people are mentioned as directly involved in the invention of the transistor in the Bell Laboratory. [...] On 15 December, Brattain used a gold spot cut into three sections. When the points were, "very close together got voltage amp about 2 but not power amp. This voltage amplification was independent of frequency 10 to 10,000 cycles" [9]. On 16 December, Brattain had a gadget made of polystyrene for putting two gold leaf contacts very close together on the germanium surface. He wrote: "Using this double point contact, contact was made to a germanium surface that had been anodized to 90 volts, electrolyte washed off in H20 and then had some gold spots evaporated on it. The gold contacts were pressed down on the bare surface. Both gold contacts to the surface rectified nicely... The separation between points was about 4 x 10-3 cm. One point was used as a grid and the other point as a plate. The bias (D.C.) on the grid had to be positive to get amplification... power gain 1.3 voltage gain 15 on a plate bias of about 15 volts". [10] It turned out that the oxide was not necessary for the process, and the gold spots were eventually replaced by other metal points. When the electrodes were more closely spaced, it was found that power amplification of 18 could be obtained. On 23 December, 1947, a speech amplifier of this gain was demonstrated by Brattain and H. R. Moore to several of their colleagues and managers. J. H. Pierce gave the device the name transistor because the concept of transresistance suggested itself to him as an analogy with transconductance in vacuum tubes. [11] The news of the transistor was sprung on an unsuspecting and disinterested world on 30 June 1948, at a major press conference. References: [1] M. J. Kelly, authorization for work, case no. 38139, 1 January 1945, Bell Labs Archives. [2] R. S. Ohl, interview with L. Hoddeson, August 1976, Niels Bohr Library, American Institute of Physics, New York. [3] R. Bray, interview with P. Henriksen, 14 May 1982, Niels Bohr Library, American Institute of Physics, New York. [4] R. Whaley, interview with P. Henriksen, 29 October 1982, Niels Bohr Library, American Institute of Physics, New York. [5] I. Tamm, [1932 publication sited in German language character set]. [6] W. Shockley, "On the Surface States Associated with a Periodic Potential," Physical Review 56 (1939): 317-333 [7] J. Bardeen, "Surface States and Rectification at a Metal Semi-Conductor Contact," Physical Review 71 (1947): 717-727 [8] W. S. Gorton, "Genesis of the Transistor," written in December 1949 and intended for volume 3 of A History of Engineering and Science in the Bell System. My thanks are due to Bell Labs archives for allowing me to see this and much other material. [9] W. H. Brattain, entry of 15 December 1947, laboratory notebook, case 38139-7. Bell Laboratories archives. Reproduced here by kind permission. [10] Brattain, entry of 16 December 1947 (ibid). [11] This is mentioned by Brattain in an appendix to Gorton ("Genesis of the Transistor"), and was mentioned by J. R. Pierce, interviews with S. Macdonald and E. Braun. [End] Each chapter in the book contains numerous references and there seems to be around 3000 overall. Some of these refer to material kindly made available from the Bell Labs archives, including laboratory notebooks, as evidenced above. In summary, as previously asserted, the development of the transistor has a clear genesis and provenance and there was nothing akin to a "leap in technology". Any actual evidence to the contrary, with a similar provenance, would always be of course be of interest. It would be welcome to see some of the early published material on the development of the transistor and I have still have papers on order. The anonymous third party allegations made by ACC, which do seem entirely devoid of evidence and factually flawed in a number of respects, can hopefully now be further judged in context. It's appreciated that the ACC claims have been highlighted and that we have the opportunity to discuss them. John White notes that, "Twenty-five years ago, it would have been damn near impossible for the ordinary joe/jill to check Corso's or ACC's transistor claims as rapidly as this site has responded". Possibly even some three years ago, John. The Internet, and latterly the World Wide Web, have revolutionised research methodologies and both the degree and quality of information we have access to. Has our understanding of "the UFO phenomenon" been significantly changed as a result? I believe so, and yes, significantly. That's another discussion, but your point is highly relevant. We should be particularly indebted to Errol for managing the UpDates list. (See, it's not a thankless task, Errol!)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings From: "Clark Hathaway & Julianne Presson" <earthwrk@doitnow.com> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 20:11:49 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 09:21:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings >Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 05:22:59 -0700 >From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings >> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 13:25:54 -0500 >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings >John Velez is picked-up uttering: >> Archives, dusty files, and dusty cases are the passtimes >> of dusty old men who can no longer get their flattened >> asses out of an armchair, and rightfully so. >HELP! I seem to be stuck and I can't get up! You are??????????????? Seems to me you were walking around fine when left Sacto????????????????????????? [SNIP] >> If you want to chase paper then fine, chase paper. >> But, if you want to see, photograph or study the real >> thing live, in broad daylight, over one of the most >> densely populated urban areas on the planet,...we got >> yer UFOs right heah! >And so does every other urban area in the world where all it takes is >unresolved blotches and pinpoints on film for a honker to try to excite >a crowd and draw attention. I think we know some of them don't we???? ;-) >> "There are UFO's over NY and I ain't too surprised." - John Lennon >Walking around NY looking up at the sky is more dangerous than sleeping >on the subway. But right now, I can't prove it. I am stuck. I can't seem >to be able to get up. I would agree on the NY thing, but NOT on you being stuck. Unless you are stuck from lifting all those old dusty files and can not get up from your computer chair because you have become a part of the chair. >Ufology may well be a dead end field, but more so due to the lack of >discipline, academia and the application of rigorous standards of >evidence which permeates archives, old dusty files, and old cases - as >well as the most recent attention-getting events. You know --- the >backbone that honkers allude to as established fact which implies that >Ufology has a substantive foundation. >So let's not waste time attempting to insert some discipine, academia >and rigorous standards of evidence to archives, dusty files, and old >cases. There is no need to elevate Ufology to a higher level. After all, >we have plenty of honkers out there to keep everybody entertained, and I >can't semm to be able to get up. I think we need to waste that time so people do not have to continue to here the BIG ANOUNCEMENT every year.... Now can you get up???? After two hard drive crashes in three days and having a third replacement Quantum HD bad out of the box I can not get up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I AM stuck in front of the computer until I get it running with another hard drive. I guess it is a good thing Clark NEVER does anything small and would only have one hard drive in each computer. At least I still have this one to work with. KNOCK ON WOOD!!! Julie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 21 Magnetic Fields Of Distant Moons Hint At Life From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 05:35:08 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 09:23:06 -0400 Subject: Magnetic Fields Of Distant Moons Hint At Life Received from the "Riskers" maillist September 21 at 03.24 local Danish time. William J. Broad is a prolific science writer who has written among others two highly acclaimed books on the Strategic Defense Initiative or SDI, Reagan's "Star Wars" concept. Todd Andrews doesn't tell where he found the article, unfortunately, so qualified information would be very welcome. Stig *** Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 19:24:44 -0600 From: Todd Andrews - FOUNDER <todd@RISKERS.ORG> To: RISKERS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Magnetic Fields of Moons Hint of Hidden Life] Message-ID: <01BCC5FA.DEA54440.todd@riskers.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Magnetic Fields on Distant Moons May Hint at Hidden Life By WILLIAM J. BROAD When scientists wonder about the hidden depths of a moon or planet, they often look for signs of a magnetic field. On Earth, the lines of magnetic force that envelop the planet indicate the hot churning of a molten core. At the surface, geologic effects of this deep commotion help make Earth a habitable place, constantly shaping the land and sea, powering earthquakes and volcanoes, recycling the crust and keeping planetary ingredients in a stir beneficial to life. But what of other worlds? Scientists have searched for magnetic fields around rocky extraterrestrial bodies partly as a way to gauge the presence and prevalence of deep geologic activity, but until now the hunts have mostly been unsuccessful. Nothing substantial has been found around the Moon, or Mars, or Venus -- all of which have been written off as geologically dead or, at the very least, lost in deep slumber. And Earth, with its churning core, has seemed more and more unique. But now, the National Aeronautic and Space Administration's Galileo probe of Jupiter has found that three of the giant planet's large moons -- Io, Europa and Ganymede -- are pulsating with signs of magnetic fields, suggesting that layers of thick ice on those distant worlds hide interiors that are potentially alive geologically, and possibly alive biologically as well. The lines and ridges, furrows and fissures that deeply wrinkle the surfaces of these icy moons (and in the case of Io, the volcanoes) had already hinted at a kind of interior drama. But the magnetic clues now suggest the activity is widespread and going on now, rather than ages ago. Indications of magnetic fields around Io and Ganymede are analyzed in the current issue of the journal Science, and the Europa findings are to be announced in the journal on Friday. (Experts writing last week in the journal Nature declared that the fourth and most distant of the large Jovian moons, Callisto, was magnetically barren.) The positive findings about the three Jovian moons, scientists say, raise the odds that their depths may be habitable and may harbor alien life, perhaps swimming through dark seas. Such speculation is an increasingly popular topic among planetary scientists. Magnetic fields could be beneficial to life not only because they imply inner heat and geologic vitality, scientists add, but because they would help shield the moons and any alien creatures from cosmic rays, the streams of highly penetrating particles that speed through space. Earth's magnetic field deflects many of these deadly radiations. "It's very exciting," Dr. Margaret G. Kivelson, an astrophysicist at the University of California at Los Angeles who is the lead scientist interpreting the magnetometer readings of the Galileo probe, said in an interview. "The images we receive show only surfaces, and sometimes you can infer a bit about what's going on below, like with Europa and all the floes. But when you measure a magnetic field, it gives you important clues. They're not always unambiguous, but they give you a sense of something going on deep inside." Jupiter is the solar system's biggest planet, with 16 known moons, four of them quite large. (Ganymede, the biggest moon in the solar system at 3,269 miles in diameter, is larger than Mercury.) Increasingly, scientists say, the large Jovian moons are proving to be more surprising and interesting than Earth's planetary neighbors. "This stream of data is strengthening our thinking of moons as worlds in their own right," said Dr. Louis D. Friedman, executive director of the Planetary Society, a private group in Pasadena that backs space exploration. "That change started to happen with Voyager, as we saw volcanoes on Io." The Voyager spacecraft flew past Jupiter in 1979. "Now," Friedman added, "it's really happening as we see hints of all these processes going on." People have long known of magnetic fields. The ancient Chinese, Arabs and Italians are variously credited with inventing the magnetic compass, which aligns itself with magnetic lines of force. By the 12th century, seamen used the instrument to navigate the Mediterranean. A magnetometer is a modern tool that measures the strength of magnetic fields, simple ones being akin to compasses. Magnetometers hurled into space in the last few decades failed to find signs of substantial fields around the Moon, Mars and Venus. But in 1974 and 1975, the Mariner 10 spacecraft while studying Mercury found signs of a field whose strength was less than 1 percent of Earth's, suggesting the planet has some degree of inner activity. All the gas giants of the outer solar system -- Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune -- were found to have magnetic fields, though the means of generation is thought to be the inner movement of materials much lighter than the molten iron of Earth and Mercury. And that rules out the kind of geology that interests life scientists. Of all the planets, Jupiter was found to have the most powerful magnetic field, which stretches through space for millions of miles, and is the solar system's largest planetary feature. This potent force complicates the job Galileo's magnetometer is now facing in trying to find and measure the magnetic fields of the Jovian moons. The spacecraft, launched in 1989, reached Jupiter in December 1995 and ever since has been engaged in detailed studies. Last December, the space agency announced that Galileo had found a strong magnetic field around Ganymede -- the first for any moon in the solar system. It appears to be about 10 percent as strong as Earth's, or fairly substantial. The implication is that Ganymede has a molten metallic core. Galileo also found signs of a magnetic field around Io, which lies much closer to Jupiter's own powerful magnetism, making the clues more ambiguous. Moreover, the data were scant. Galileo flew by Ganymede four times taking magnetometer readings, but did so only once for Io. In the current issue of Science, experts from the University of Exeter in England and the University of California at Los Angeles report computer simulations of these moons' interiors based on Galileo's readings. They concluded that Io's magnetic field was possibly derivative of the main Jovian field, and might collapse in its absence. But Ganymede, the team found, was "almost certainly operating as a dynamo in its own right." The dynamo theory holds that planetary magnetism arises as inner flows of metals produce electromagnetic fields. "It's all very intriguing," Dr. Gerald Schubert, an author of the paper who is a planetary scientist at the University of California at Los Angeles, said in an interview. "I wouldn't have predicted this prior to Galileo." A riddle is what powers Ganymede's strong field. Io, much closer to Jupiter and moving in a slightly elliptical orbit, is alternately squeezed and stretched. These so-called tidal forces heat its interior, powering its intense volcanism. But Ganymede experiences much less tidal heating. Dr. David J. Stevenson of the California Institute of Technology has proposed that Io, Europa and Ganymede were once in orbits that exerted a much greater gravitational pull on Ganymede, heating it up many millions of years ago and generating a strong magnetic field that lingers today. "This is a very important and exciting discovery," he said of Galileo's findings about Ganymede. "It's very exciting because we have so few examples of internal fields" in rocky planets and moons. And now Europa, one of the solar system's most enigmatic bodies, is also reportedly showing signs of magnetism. Its bright surface of water ice is broken into a chaos of lines and ridges, looking something like shattered glass. The moon is almost entirely free of impact craters, suggesting they were wiped clean by ice movement and turnover. Friday's issue of Science is to carry a report on Europa's magnetism by a team of researchers based at the University of California at Los Angeles and led by Kivelson, scientists said. Europa, closer to Jupiter's potent magnetic fields than Ganymede, is a more difficult target to study. Moreover, Galileo had its magnetometer in working order only once in a Europa flyby, last December. A cosmic ray apparently knocked the magnetometer out of action temporarily just before a February pass, which was meant to bolster the readings. Even so, Galileo found sketchy signs of a field. "It's much weaker" than Ganymede's, said a scientist who spoke on condition of anonymity because researchers are barred by the journal from taking about their findings before publication. "But it's intriguing." The possibility is that Europa is geologically alive beneath its craggy surface ice, its core hot and astir, creating a deep warm ocean perhaps teeming with alien life. Kivelson, who refused to comment on the coming Science report, said the Galileo team was eagerly looking forward to future data that might clarify the situation. The space agency recently decided to extend the Galileo mission so the hardy spacecraft could zero in on Europa in its final days. Originally scheduled to end in December 1997, the mission is now to go through 1999 so the probe can repeatedly swing past the icy moon for a series of close-ups. "We believe that will settle the question," Kivelson said, of whether Europa has a strong magnetic field of its own, and perhaps a deep extraterrestrial sea as well.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 21 Global Surveyor Detects Martian Magnetic Field From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 06:54:35 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 09:29:02 -0400 Subject: Global Surveyor Detects Martian Magnetic Field Found at http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/releases/mgsmag.html PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICE JET PROPULSION LABORATORY CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION PASADENA, CALIF. 91109. TELEPHONE (818) 354-5011 http://www.jpl.nasa.gov Contact: Diane Ainsworth FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE September 17, 1997 MARS GLOBAL SURVEYOR DETECTS MARTIAN MAGNETIC FIELD AS AEROBRAKING BEGINS Scientists have confirmed the existence of a planet-wide magnetic field at Mars using an instrument on-board NASA's Mars Global Surveyor orbiter, as the spacecraft began to circle and study the planet from a highly elliptical orbit. "Mars Global Surveyor has been in orbit for only a few days, yet it already has returned an important discovery about the red planet," said Vice President Al Gore. "This is another example of how NASA's commitment to faster, better, cheaper Mars exploration that began with Mars Pathfinder is going to help answer many fundamental questions about the history and environment of our neighboring planet, and the lessons it may hold for a better understanding of life on Earth." The spacecraft's magnetometer, which began making measurements of Mars' magnetic field after its capture into orbit on Sept. 11, detected the magnetic field on Sept. 15. The existence of a planetary magnetic field has important implications for the geological history of Mars and for the possible development and continued existence of life on Mars. "Preliminary evidence of a stronger than expected magnetic field of planetary origin was collected and is now under detailed study," said Dr. Mario H. Acuna, principal investigator for the magnetometer/electron reflectrometer instrument at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, MD. "This was the first opportunity in the mission to collect close-in magnetic field data. Much more additional data will be collected in upcoming orbits during the aerobraking phase of the mission to further characterize the strength and geometry of the field. The current observations suggest a field with a polarity similar to that of Earth's and opposite that of Jupiter, with a maximum strength not exceeding 1/800ths of the magnetic field at Earth's surface." This result is the first conclusive evidence of a magnetic field at Mars. "More distant observations obtained previously by the Russian missions Mars 2, 3 and 5 and Phobos 1 and 2 were inconclusive regarding the presence or absence of a magnetic field of internal origin," said Acuna. The magnetic field has important implications for the evolution of Mars. Planets like Earth, Jupiter and Saturn generate their magnetic fields by means of a dynamo made up of moving molten metal at the core. This metal is a very good conductor of electricity, and the rotation of the planet creates electrical currents deep within the planet that give rise to the magnetic field. A molten interior suggests the existence of internal heat sources, which could give rise to volcanoes and a flowing crust responsible for moving continents over geologic time periods. "A magnetic field shields a planet from fast-moving, electrically charged particles from the Sun which may affect its atmosphere, as well as from cosmic rays, which are an impediment to life," Acuna said. "If Mars had a more active dynamo in its past, as we suspect from the existence of ancient volcanoes there, then it may have had a thicker atmosphere and liquid water on its surface." It is not known whether the current weaker field now results from a less active dynamo, or if the dynamo is now extinct and what the scientists are observing is really a remnant of an ancient magnetic field still detectable in the Martian crust. "Whether this weak magnetic field implies that we are observing a fossil crustal magnetic field associated with a now extinct dynamo or merely a weak but active dynamo similar to that of Earth, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune remains to be seen," Acuna said. Mars Global Surveyor's magnetometer discovered the outermost boundary of the Martian magnetic field -- known as the bow shock -- during the inbound leg of its second orbit around the planet, and again on the outbound leg. The discovery came just before Mars Global Surveyor began its first aerobraking maneuver to lower and circularize its orbit around Mars, said Glenn Cunningham, Mars Global Surveyor project manager at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), Pasadena, CA. "This first 'step down' into the upper atmosphere was performed in two stages," Cunningham said. On Sept. 16, during the farthest point in the spacecraft's orbit, called the apoapsis, the spacecraft fired its main engine for 6.5 seconds, slowing Global Surveyor's velocity by 4.41 meters per second (9.8 miles per hour). This maneuver lowered the spacecraft's orbit from 263 kilometers (163 miles) to 150 kilometers (93 miles) above the surface of the planet. At its closest approach to Mars this morning, known as the periapsis, the spacecraft dipped into the upper fringes of the Martian atmosphere for 27 seconds, allowing the drag on its solar panels to begin the long aerobraking process of circularizing its orbit. Mars Global Surveyor will continue aerobraking through the Martian atmosphere for the next four months, until its orbit has been circularized and it is flying about 378 kilometers (234 miles) above the Martian surface. All systems and science instruments onboard the spacecraft continue to perform normally after six days in orbit around the red planet. Additional information about the magnetic field discovery and the Mars Global Surveyor mission is available on the World Wide Web by accessing the JPL home page at: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/marsnews or the Mars Global Surveyor home page at: http://marsweb.jpl.nasa.gov or at the Goddard Space Flight Center magnetometer site at: http://mgs-mager.gsfc.nasa.gov Meanwhile, NASA�s Hubble Space Telescope has continued monitoring the atmospheric conditions on Mars to help planning for the Mars Global Surveyor aerobraking activity. The latest Hubble Mars image, taken Sept. 12 with the Wide Field Planetary Camera 2 under the direction of Phil James of the University of Toledo and Steve Lee of the University of Colorado, is available on the Internet at the following URLs: http://oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/PR/gif/mars0609.gif http://oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/PR/jpeg/mars0609.jpg and via links in: http://oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/PR/97/31.html Mars Global Surveyor is the first mission in a sustained program of robotic Mars exploration, known as the Mars Surveyor Program. The mission is managed by the Jet Propulsion Laboratory for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, DC. JPL's industrial partner is Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, CO, which developed and operates the spacecraft. JPL is a division of the California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, CA. #####9-17-97 DEA #9778
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 01:21:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 09:34:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions >From: nick@emailme.at.address.below (Nick Humphries) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions >Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 15:14:26 GMT >On Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:49:44 -0400, you wrote: >>Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:39:28 +0200 (MET DST) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >>Subject: Re: Scientific American explains abductions >>Hi all, >>Guess what. Elizabeth "false memory" Loftus has written an article >>in the September issue of Scientific American that says that >>alien abductions are all a trick of the mind. >Not quite true - I don't think she even mentioned aliens at all (this IS a >science journal after all), but concentrated on high-fear situations like >abuse. And her research IS very interesting and raises several questions >relating to abductee research, specifically the investigation techniques of >abduction researchers. Hi Henny, Nick, All, Henny writes, >>Anyone with scoop marks, X-rays and CAT-scans care to react? >>John Velez, perhaps? You can send letters to editors@sciam.com I gave Ms Loftus a running shot at me when we did the NOVA episode. It was immediately after they showed a sequence from a hypnotic regression session that the Loftus material was presented as if offering an explanation for the material that coming out of me during that session. She explained away my experiences as "False memory syndrome" without ever having interviewed me, she also never saw or requested my case file from Budd. To this day I'm still wondering how she formulated a clinical opinion about me or my case without ever having met me or knowing any of the specifics of what I was reporting. Amazing. A psychologist analyzing me on air a la Frazier Crane is not what I'd call 'good psychology' or even 'good science.' >You make it sound like SciAm just made a huge attack on abductees - you're >overreacting more than a tad. I agree with Nick. Loftus hasn't even come close to explaining the abduction experiences that are being reported by so many individuals. Why react when there is really nothing worth reacting to in Loftus's theories. (Which is all that they are,...just her 'theories' and, ones that don't fit or answer much of what is known to be associated with the abduction syndrome.) >>I have considered writing myself, but I'm afraid I don't have the >>time. You found the time to try to 'rabble rouse' on this non-issue, you could just as easily have lodged a complaint with whatever or whomever you found offensive. I'm not moved (or impressed) by Loftus or any of her personal theories so the desired effect was lost on me Henny. This is going to sound very 'zen' but sometimes the best action is a non action. I believe the Quakers call it, "shunning" someone. I "shun" Elizabeth Loftus because as far as I'm concerned she isn't a very good scientist or researcher. >Have you any objections to her research, or do you just not like the >>abductee boat to be rocked? Aside from the fact that old 'SS Abduction' finds herself plagued by perpetually stormy seas, it would be tough to perceive any effect introduced by Loftus and her theories. A 'quicky' on Loftus. Those familiar with her methods will know what I'm talking about here. She conducts her research and bases her findings on false memory by taking impressionable teenagers and trying to convince them that something which never happened to them,...did happen. After (several) of these intentional 'memory confusion' sessions the kids become a little fuzzy about certain details and will incorporate some of Loftus's false implanted memories in their retelling of whatever the particular childhood memory was that was chosen as Loftus's target experience. Ergo, false memory is created. It really doesn't even answer how 'false memories' can become a part of someone's recollections in real life, under actual life conditions. It's all "clinical theoretical crap' created artificially in a lab. She has NEVER WORKED WITH ACTUAL PATIENTS! Do you know that? IMHO It's all stuff that's carried out in a lab under artificial conditions in order to reinforce her theories and insure next years grants. It's bullshit and has absolutely nothing to do with abduction or abductees. I do believe that a study of memory, its accuracy, and dependability are vitally important to abduction research. But from what I've seen (and some of it first hand) of Loftus's methods I can comfortably dismiss her theories as simply 'not applicable' to the situation being confronted by myself or other abductees. Bear in mind that 'abduction' has always been peripheral to her theories. Loftus's main study in terms of false memories originally (and I believe still does) relates to hidden childhood abuse or childhood rape traumas. Although I'm sure that this will apply to some abductees, I venture to guess that the incidence of rape or abuse would be the same statistically for abductees as it would be for the general population! After all is said and done, we're just ordinary folks like anyone else. Just an opinion. John Velez, Abductee Union Rep. John Velez
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 21 UFOR: 'Alien Embryo' Enigma - Hoax or Cover Up? From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 04:02:29 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 10:27:30 -0400 Subject: UFOR: 'Alien Embryo' Enigma - Hoax or Cover Up? From: Jorge Martin <jmartin@coqui.net> The 'Alien Embryo' Enigma - Hoax or Cover Up? By Jorge Mart=EDn - UFO Researcher - Puerto Rico In the early hours of Wednesday, September 17, 1997,a young man was murdered in a desolate street of La Colecto-ra community, located in Santurce, Puerto Rico...and the incident became a media event and a shocking and alarming incident, as it seemed to be related to an alien situation. Why this? Because a small vial like jar was found at the site, in close proximity to the man, containing, according to those who handled it, a strange type embryo, a small creature of anomalous physical details. Immediately it was described by some as an 'Alien Grey'or a 'Chupacabra' embryo. We report here the facts behind the story, after a preliminary investigation. On Wednesday morning we received a phone call from Noticentro 4, the news department of WAPA TV, channel 4, they asked us to go to the station and told us an incredible story. According to the young woman who called us, Maritza D=EDaz, a young military man had been killed and next to him, inside his car, was found a jar with a strange fetus or embryo that did not look human nor had the looks of any known animal, saying it seemed to be something alien or extraterrestrial. They wanted an expert opinion on the matter, and wanted us to examine the physical details of the alleged 'embryo'. Before our arrival, Channel 4 broadcast a news report on the murder and the finding of the alleged 'alien embryo', announcing there would be a complete report on the matter on its 5:00 P.M. news edition. Even though we did not believe the story, we went to the TV station and once there we were surprised by what we saw in a videotape filmed at the scene of the crime. =09 According to channel 4 news department director, Mr. Enrique [Quique] Cruz and Mr. Miguel Banojian WAPA TV vice-president, the video footage had been filmed by cameraman Alfonso S=E1nchez at about 5:00 A.M., at the corner of Progresso alley, in La Colectora community. The video showed images of a dead man, about 30 years old, slumped in the driver=B9s seat of a model 1981 dark blue Honda Prelude car, with license plates ALT 475. The victim had been shot, apparently at close range, and he showed a bullet wound below the clavicle, that seemed to follow a downward path inside the body. The video also showed the arrival of police and Puerto Rico's Forensic Sciences Institute personnel to the site and how this personnel dealt with the situation, doing a preliminary examination of the crime scene and the dead man's body. The body was taken afterwards to the Forensic Sciences Institute on orders of district attorney Lourdes Acevedo. =09 According to cameraman Alfonso S=E1nchez, after Puerto Rico Police Homicide detectives Jes=FAs Cruz and H=E9ctor Santiago arrived at the site, together with district attorney Lourdes Acevedo, the scene was examined thoroughly, and during a search in the car=B9s back seat, forensic sciences investigators found, in the inside pocket of a green military type suit, a manila envelope in which a small vial like object was found. The strange 'embryo' was found in this vial, which consisted of a small crystal bottle of about 3 to 3 and 1/2 inches long and about an inch wide, filled with a viscous thick translucent colorless liquid. The 'embryo' was surrounded by the substance. The finding provoked a lot of amazement and speculation by those in the site. =09 Immediately, said S=E1nchez, District attorney Lourdes Acevedo ordered that the vial with the small figure inside of it to be taken to the Forensic Sciences Institute facilities for an immediate analysis of the organism. According to cameraman S=E1nchez, the envelope was a yellow colored one, and had printed lettering that identified it as belonging to a lab. Also,the envelope that contained the vial had the words 'Base de Ceiba' [Ceiba Base], which undoubtedly referred to Roosevelt Roads Naval Station, the only one in the area, in handwriting, on top of it. S=E1nchez stated the man was wearing green military pants and socks, with a cream-beige colored shirt and wore brown non military shoes. Also,according to him, a suit of the same green military color had been found in the back seat, in which the envelope with the vial was found. A small slim wallet, of the type that holds badges and IDs was found close to the man=B9s body, but no IDs or driver=B9s license was found in it, only= a key. According to S=E1nchez, initial reports of the incident indicated the Puerto Rico Police knew about this incident after being informed that a dark 4x4 vehicle was chasing the car and a shot had been heard at the site, after this the Honda crashed against two wrecked cars at the edge of the road. Allegedly, arriving at the scene, some policemen observed, at a distance, the dark colored 4x4 vehicle and a man standing next to the Honda=B9s driver=B9s door. The 4x4 vehicle fled as the police patrol car approached the site. =09 The victim=B9s name was Fred Acevedo Mart=EDnez, as was later informed, and he lived in 24 street, #AC-10, Villas de Rio Grande, Rio Grande Puerto Rico, and allegedly was in the U.S. military service [branch unknown]. =09 News reporter Pedro Rosa Nales, who was investigating the incident and the alleged finding of the strange 'alien embryo' for channel 4, told us: =09 "After watching the video and talking with authorities, people involved with this operative, after the finding of the man's body and the envelope which contained the jar with the strange fetus...I don't know, there's data that tends to indicate there's something strange involved with this case. Analyzing the details of this video we can see that the physical characteristics we can see are similar to the ones given to us by many witnesses who claim having had encounters with alien or chupacabras like creatures. The shape of the head, of the eyes, three fingers its hands, four fingers in its toes...the body's morphology evidently does not seem like something human. It could be a malformed embryo or fetus...but the fact is that it makes you think that it is something very strange, really strange." =09 What about the alleged 4x4 vehicle that, according to some, was chasing Acevedo's Honda and from which a man had been seen coming out from and approaching Acevedo=B9s car?, we asked. =09 "The strangest thing is that people who were at the scene say this jar with the fetus was found inside an envelope found in the inside pocket of a BDU military green suit, an envelope labeled as coming from a laboratory, with the words 'Base de Ceiba' written on it, in handwriting. To me, as a journalist and as someone who has been doing some research for some time in the UFO field, and has talked to many witnesses, this tells me that there's something even weirder in all of this. Why this strange fetus or embryo inside this jar? Why in an envelope apparently addressed to a laboratory in the Ceiba Base [Roosevelt Roads Naval Station]? Why this alleged 4x4 vehicle, similar to other vehicles described before by other witnesses in Puerto Rico who report having been intercepted by elements of federal government agencies who are trying to prevent the people from knowing what's behind the UFO phenomenon? There are many things that arise suspicions, and as a reporter this opens many doors and possibilities to us, that we can investigate." After this, I was asked to give an opinion on the image of the alleged 'alien embryo', and I stated, and this was taped in video, that it was very difficult for us to express a responsible opinion based only on a video image. If we want to make a good analysis - I said -, in which to base a serious opinion, we need the actual specimen for a through examination of it. Anything I say here would be biased by the fact we don=B9t have the actual physical evidence before us. Therefore, as I did not see the real figure or fetus, I can only say that if this image in the video we are watching is real, I repeat, should it be real, and we don=B9t have any proof of this at this moment, the physical details of the body in the image are somewhat compatible with those of a chupacabras type creature, specially pertaining to its head and eyes [elongated pear shaped head with big almond shaped black eyes, almost no nostrils and without ears or auditive holes. It had two apparent small fangs protruding out from its little, lipless mouth] . The rest of the body seems compatible with that of a so called Grey alien humanoid creature [very pale, with some apparent blood on it and scraped out areas, two thin small arms with small three-fingered hands and four toes]. Obviously, all this matter has to be investigated thoroughly, with a lot more of scientific data, before we can say anything for sure about this. Definitely, we still have to wait for the results of the analysis of the alleged organism being made at the Forensic Sciences Institute." =09 Doctor Carlos Soto, a veterinarian, was asked, separately, to give his opinion on what type of animal, if any, the image in the video belonged to. Soto expressed concerns similar to ours, in the sense that it was difficult to give an expert opinion based solely on a video image, and stated that if the apparent organism shown in the video was real, it was not similar to any fetus or embryo of a human being or any animal species known to him, as it had anomalous physical characteristics such as a big pear shaped head with a thin jaw, big black almond shaped eyes that tapered to the sides of the head, which were opened, without any apparent eyelids, no auditive canals, almost no nostrils, two very small apparent fangs protruding from its mouth, arms with small three-fingered hands. He brought to the TV station a jar containing a dog's preserved dead fetus and made a comparison between the image in the video and the dog's fetus,clearly showing the difference between the two of them, stating that if the image in the video belonged to a real specimen and was not a hoax of some type, then we were dealing with something very, very strange. He also emphasized that in order to give a real scientific opinion based on facts, he needed to do an actual examination and analysis on the small alleged 'embryo' itself. Otherwise, his opinion should only be considered as non-official and solely as a preliminary comment based on what he saw in the video. He stated the results of the analysis being made at the Forensic Sciences Institute were essential in order to give an expert opinion on the matter. In the meantime, a lid of silence had been placed on the matter in the Forensics Sciences Institute. Channel 4 kept calling and visiting the premises of the Institute, asking to see Dr. Weissman, in charge of the analysis of the 'embryo', but their response was always the same: "We are investigating the matter. Dr. Weissman can't respond now. We are doing chemical analysis on the specimen." We were informed by Mr. Enrique Cruz and Mr. Banojian that another doctor [physician] they had called in order for him to give an expert opinion on the image on the video, which he did not do, called by phone right in the news department, a close friend who has a high level position in the Forensic Sciences Institute, asking him to tell him whatever he knew about the alleged 'embryo'. His friend told him it was for real, and that he could say they knew that 'thing' was neither human nor any type of animal species known to human science. He was told high level officers of the Institute were dealing with the evidence. At the moment, Mr. Cruz was very impressed, apparently convinced that something very strange and important was occurring. Needless to say, as the media got a hold on the news, the finding of the 'alien embryo' became the story of the day. Everyone wanted to know about the event, and conspiracy stories began running around about the man having being killed by dark forces in the government after [possibly] taking such an evidence out from a classified government facility. Another theory was that there could be two factions of the government struggling for control over the UFO/alien situation, and that maybe he was transporting the 'specimen' to Roosevelt Roads naval Station when he was killed. This was pure speculation. A sudden turn of events At about 4:00 P.M. things started to change. Suddenly, the murdered man, Fred Acevedo Mart=EDnez, according to the police, was not in the military, and his clothing, they said, was not military either. He was, they said, employed at El Conquistador Hotel and Resort in Fajardo, and had come a year ago from Louisiana, where he lived previously. At the same time, it was informed he was self employed in Fajardo. It was also stated that he was a photocopy machine repair technician. Obviously, the scenario was becoming a confusing one. Also, he did not live in Rio Grande, but in a condominium in Luquillo. Right before their 5:00 P.M. news, Channel 4 called Forensic Sciences Institute, and again, the Institute=B9s representatives said they were "...examining and analyzing the evidence and doing chemical analysis to the organism, to see what they were dealing with." The first part of the news program was okay, and channel 4 reported on the event, presenting the data on the situation. Even police Superintendent Pedro Toledo was asked about the finding, and he stated knowing nothing about the matter, but said that whatever was in the jar looked remarkably similar to what people had been describing as the Chupacabras. But all of a sudden, news director and anchor man Enrique Cruz and co-host Ada Torres Toro stated they had been receiving calls from people saying that the small corpse or 'embryo' was only a souvenir...and from then on the report became a real joke. They said everyone involved with the finding of the 'alien embryo' had been fooled, because it was a only toy, a souvenir, a key chain consisting of a small plastic 'alien' figurine inside a crystalline jar connected to a key chain. Together with another member of the news department, Maritza Diaz, who allegedly bought several of the key chains or amulets, as they also called them, in a shopping center, they ridiculed everything and everyone involved with the investigation of the 'embryo' in a disgusting manner, even their own reporters were ridiculed. =09 But the thing is that none of the key chains both channels showed were similar to the one taped in the video, the one still under examination and analysis by the Forensic Sciences Institute personnel, and if this was the case, they could have informed the public on the possibility that everything was the product of a mistake, and report on the key chain angle. By ridiculing everything that way they branded a falsehood or hoax sign on the matter, affecting any other efforts into the matter. But strangely enough, in its 10:00 P.M. report, Channel 4 informed that even with the 'keychain factor', the Forensics Sciences Institute still informed that they still were investigating the matter and doing chemical analysis to the specimen, to know what they were dealing with. This was an obvious contradiction. If the 'alien embryo' specimen was a plastic toy, why was the Forensics Institute still doing chemical analysis and other tests to it? Are we to believe that the Police officials, the Forensic investigators, the homicide detectives, district attorney Lourdes Acevedo and the pathologists at the Forensics Sciences Institute can=B9t differentiate between a plastic toy and a flesh and bone biological organism? I doubt this is the case. =09 Investigating further, we interviewed police Sergeant Modesto Gonz=E1lez, of 266 Police Precinct, located in Santurce, the police station that originally dealt with the murder of Fred Acevedo Mart=EDnez. Gonz=E1lez explained he was at the scene and saw when the vial was found, and to him the one he saw had nothing to do with the ones shown in TV. "You could see there was something in the vial that looked like a fetus of something not natural, not human" - he said. "It was packed, together with all other evidence, and sent to Forensic Sciences Institute with the victim, still identified as John Doe...That thing was like a small jar, sealed. It did not look as a key chain. It was the first time I saw anything like that." =09 On the other part, homicide detective Jes=FAs P=E9rez, one of the detectives in charge of the investigation of the murder case, stated, during an interview we made to him, that to him, the small body inside the jar he saw at the murder site looked as composed of flesh, organic tissue. His partner, detective H=E9ctor Santiago, thinks it was a toy. Still today, Friday September 19, 1997, a Forensic Sciences Institute representative said they were still investigating the matter, and doing chemical analysis to the unknown organism. Again, how can this be? Was it a toy or not? Or are we facing a cover up of something really important pertaining to the small body in the vial? The information below may give us an answer on this. After leaving from Notiuno radio station, after the broadcast of our Evidencia OVNI program, on Thursday night, we met, on a confidential basis, and thanks to a common friend, with a person who works in the Puerto Rico Forensics Sciences Institute, who told us that the alleged 'strange embryo' was real. "This is not a laughing matter," he said, "there are federal officers involved with this. As soon as the specimen was brought to the Institute by the forensics agents, it was taken, by orders of Dr. Weissman, to a sterile room. In case you are not knowledgeable on this, sterile rooms in the institute are used when there is some concern about the possibility of bacterial, virus or any other type of contamination. The specimen was taken out of the glass cylinder and both the cylinder and the small body were placed on top of metal trays there, over some gauze pads, to begin the examination and the analysis of the samples.= Dr. Weissman was in charge, but all of a sudden an American pathologist, we don=B9t know who he was, came and joined him during the examination. The two of them were left alone in the sterile room. Two federal agents, dressed in fine suits, who had escorted the American specialist, kept guard outside the door of the sterile room, preventing anyone from going in. The sterile room was declared off-limits to Institute personnel and orders were issued that no one could talk about the work being done in the Institute pertaining to the examination of the small specimen." He added: "I can assure you this is for real. We saw the small body that was in the jar, and it was different from the ones shown in TV. It was not a key chain. It was not a toy. It was some type of organism...I don=B9t know what it was. It looked like a small fetus, but if it was a fetus it did not look like anything I had seen before... What I saw was made out of flesh, tissue, and its flesh looked somewhat like raw tissue...with like fetal tissue, skin peeled off in some places...and what seemed like blood. It had a very pale skin. It looked like a small fetus or embryo...but it was weird. Really weird. You can believe it, it is weird, but true. It was an ugly little thing." We showed this source one of the key chain aliens from channel 4 [one that was somewhat similar, to a certain degree, to the aspect of the 'alien embryo', and he was adamant in his opinion that what he saw was different. What he saw, he said, was similar to the photo of the creature in the jar that was published in El Vocero news-paper in its Thursday 18 edition [page 11], and the jar was a little bigger, about three inches long and one inch wide [the key chains glass jars were about two inches long and about 1/2 wide, with a chain attached on top on its sealed cap]. Finally, he said he was surprised the federal authorities hadn=B9t taken away the organism yet, whatever it was. He also couldn=B9t understand why the spokesmen of the Institute kept telling the media they were still investigating and doing chemical analysis to the sample. "If the authorities want to cover this up...As it has already been said that it was a plastic toy...Why are they doing this? I can't understand it", he said finally. Neither do we, we must say. We are trying to verify this sources disclosures with other independent sources inside the Puerto Rico Forensic Sciences Institute. Also, we are following other interesting leads on this matter. Should any new developments arise that may allow us to verify the reality or falsehood of this situation, we=B9ll report them as soon as possible. Jorge Mart=EDn - Puerto Rico E-mail address: jmartin@coqui.net _________________________________________________________________________ To respond and/or give feedback to an author, reply to his or her E Mail address. If you want us to consider your reply for public posting, you can send a Carbon Copy to us. We reserve the right to edit and post. UFOR articles are archived in http://www.Reference.COM. For any change in your UFOR participation, please, e mail me at d005734c@dc.seflin.org The most ample distribution of articles published in UFOR is highly encouraged as long as proper attribution and respect for the authors and participating lists expressed wishes, if any, are maintained, this include printed and electronic media, including for profit and non profit organizations.
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 21 Ed Dames on the Phoenix 'Lights' From: William.Hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com Date: Friday, 19 September 1997 7:37am MT Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 12:02:17 -0400 Subject: Ed Dames on the Phoenix 'Lights' ON ED DAMES ON THE PHOENIX LIGHTS Art Bell again hosted Ed Dames on Thursday evening. This time Ed reveals an explanation for the Phoenix Lights gleaned through the medium of "technical remote viewing". Ed gets my award for the "silliest" explanation I have heard to date. If his report on the pathogens released upon our poor unsuspecting world had this same level of credibility, then I would tell all of you to relax. Do not take such entertainment seriously. In utter disregard of the reports collected on the Phoenix Lights describing structured objects, not just lights, and the reports that came in from the cities in the north such as Kingman, Paulden, and Prescott, and cities in the south such as Casa Grande and Tucson, Major Dames proposed that the lights passing over Phoenix were caused by the intersection and interference of 5 crossed ultraviolet laser beams! He describes the results of remote viewing in terms that lead the public to believe that such results are always 100% accurate. A cursory study of parapsychology and experiments in remote viewing will show that there is always a percentage of "hits" releated to targets. That the interference of ultraviolet laser beams causes an area of standing waves that would cause atmospheric dust to glow, that such standing waves could be caused to move by slewing one of the lasers across a fixed laser might be termed "imaginative" science. I guess Major Dames expects the public to accept his explanation of the Phoenix Lights because this was the consensus arrived at by 6 remote viewers. I guess it was just entertainment. So far, the whole story of what happened on March 13th has not been told and I am hearing authoritative statements by various personalities that have but little acquaintance with the facts. Sigh! Sincerely,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions From: nick@emailme.at.address.below (Nick Humphries) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 16:13:21 GMT Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 12:25:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions >Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 21:06:45 +0200 (MET DST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions >>From: nick@emailme.at.address.below (Nick Humphries) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions >>Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 15:14:26 GMT >>>Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:39:28 +0200 (MET DST) >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >>>Subject: Re: Scientific American explains abductions >>>Hi all, >>>Guess what. Elizabeth "false memory" Loftus has written an article >>>in the September issue of Scientific American that says that >>>alien abductions are all a trick of the mind. >>Not quite true - I don't think she even mentioned aliens at all (this IS a >>science journal after all), but concentrated on high-fear situations like >>abuse. And her research IS very interesting and raises several questions >>relating to abductee research, specifically the investigation techniques of >>abduction researchers. >>Have you any objections to her research, or do you just not like the abductee >>boat to be rocked? >Both. And for what reasons? ------------------------------------------------------- Nick Humphries, nick@the-den.clara.net, at your service If the Truth is Out There, what's In Here? ------------------------------------------------------- The Your Sinclair Rock'n'Roll Years http://www.the-den.clara.net/ys/cover.htm -------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: More Military Jet Crashes From: SKvs <bradford@globalserve.net> [Sue Kovios] Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 12:40:38 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 17:42:59 -0400 Subject: Re: More Military Jet Crashes >Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 18:13:49 +0100 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: More Military Jet Crashes >I don't think any of these recent military crashes have a UFO connection >Jim but that's not to say they don't. But the last you mentioned jarred >my memory. It was an A-10 Thunderbold [dubbed a "Warthog" by their >pilots] and as you mentioned they found the A-10 but not the pilot, and >I'm not sure about the bombs it was carrying. Anybody out there got any >more news on this one? >Regards, >Don Ledger Try checking this url: http://www.af.mil/news/ Search Warthog Interesting there was a stand down which had been brought forward from Sept. 26 to Sept. 19 at 7:00 a.m. Sue "Truth is a shining goddess, always veiled, always distant, never wholly approachable, but worthy of all the devotion of which the human spirit is capable." -Bertrand Russell Amen
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions From: nick@emailme.at.address.below (Nick Humphries) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 16:35:53 GMT Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 21:09:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions >Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 01:21:16 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions >A 'quicky' on Loftus. Those familiar with her methods will know what I'm >talking about here. She conducts her research and bases her findings on >false memory by taking impressionable teenagers and trying to convince them >that something which never happened to them,...did happen. After (several) >of these intentional 'memory confusion' sessions the kids become a little >fuzzy about certain details and will incorporate some of Loftus's false >implanted memories in their retelling of whatever the particular childhood >memory was that was chosen as Loftus's target experience. Ergo, false >memory is created. It really doesn't even answer how 'false memories' can >become a part of someone's recollections in real life, under actual life >conditions. It's all "clinical theoretical crap' created artificially in a >lab. She has NEVER WORKED WITH ACTUAL PATIENTS! Do you know that? IMHO It's >all stuff that's carried out in a lab under artificial conditions in order >to reinforce her theories and insure next years grants. Would patients be any use to her research - patients would be an "end product". Loftus wouldn't be able to deduce the cause of any possible FMS from patients alone. Having read her paper, I came to the conclusion that she's trying to discover the CAUSE of FMS, and the only way to go about it is to try and CREATE it. >It's bullshit and has absolutely nothing to do with abduction or abductees. Well, not directly to abductees, but certainly to abductee interviewers. Loftus showed how she induced FMS by making a suggestion of something that happened to a test subject that was definitely false and asking the subject if they remembered it. The subject usually said no. Asked the same thing two weeks later, the subject magically remembered something which didn't happen. The initial interview between investigator and abductee is crucial - to avoid ANY possibility of FMS, investigators should stick to asking questions and definitely not make any "helpful suggestions". I know that ideally this is always the case, but this ain't an ideal world. I would prefer it if investigators just gave a form to an abductee to fill in to describe their experience in minute detail before discussing the case. Any new data which arises after the form has been filled in should be treated as suspect since the possibility of suggestions from the investigator cannot be ruled out. Granted, this will lead to less "star" abductees like Linda Censored, but surely the data will be untainted? >I do believe that a study of memory, its accuracy, and dependability are >vitally important to abduction research. But from what I've seen (and some >of it first hand) of Loftus's methods I can comfortably dismiss her >theories as simply 'not applicable' to the situation being confronted by >myself or other abductees. Well, not applicable to _some_ cases. I cannot speculate on any sort of percentages. >Bear in mind that 'abduction' has always been peripheral to her theories. >Loftus's main study in terms of false memories originally (and I believe >still does) relates to hidden childhood abuse or childhood rape traumas. >Although I'm sure that this will apply to some abductees, I venture to >guess that the incidence of rape or abuse would be the same statistically >for abductees as it would be for the general population! Well, FMS is still a relatively new phenomena, but shouldn't be dismissed out of hand for the time being. ------------------------------------------------------- Nick Humphries, nick@the-den.clara.net, at your service If the Truth is Out There, what's In Here? ------------------------------------------------------- The Your Sinclair Rock'n'Roll Years http://www.the-den.clara.net/ys/cover.htm -------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: More military jet crashes From: Perry Mick <perrym@teleport.com> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 09:40:51 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 21:15:55 -0400 Subject: Re: More military jet crashes >From: CFQ2@aol.com [Charles Quinn] >Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 18:44:35 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: More military jet crashes >>To:UFO updates-Toronto<updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Jim Deardorff<deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >>date: Saturday 20 Sept. 1997 08:30:19 >>Subject: More military jet crashes ><snip> >>I am one who keeps the possibility in mind that the crashes >>were caused by purposeful UFO interventions, perhaps because >>our government is not cooperating with some sort of UFO >>negotiations in which they have engaged... >I totally agree !! The B-1B bomber attack plane that went down in >Montana had a Lt. Col. at the controls, with 2 majors and a captain >on board. The plane is a 200 million dollar assault vehicle. Why such >brass on board, literally the cream of the crop? What were they in >pursuit of? Dick Wesnick in a story to the New York Times( he is >the editor of the Billings Montana gazette) flew over the crash site >within one hour and saw a huge mile long trench where the craft hit >the ground but not a single solitary piece of the plane---not a tail- >not a piece of the fuselage- not a wing- not a human body. WOW!!!!! The only thing I heard on the radio about the B1 crash was that witnesses reported it flying very low and very slow, which indicates the possibility of a stall. Is there a URL that verifies the info above? Two recent cases that indicate the possibility of UFO involvement are: 1. The crash of a C130 off the coast of Northern California last winter. All four engines quit, which is supposedly impossible. I've read in an aviation newsletter that the cause was thought to be a total electrical failure, which is also supposedly impossible, but this is where the UFO possibility comes in. Also, our representative government is trying to get the Air Force to release it's secret findings from its investigation of the incident, and the AF isn't very cooperative. 2. The missing Learjet that was never found. I think in New Hampshire, also last winter. It was making a second attempt at landing. Maybe there is new information I've not heard. In Donald Keyhoe's book, "Aliens from Space", 1973, chapter 3: "The Hidden Gamble", he tells the story of the Air Force's attempt to shoot down a UFO near Redmond, Oregon on September 24, 1959, and the subsequent coverup. This is an amazing read. He then speculates that the baffling crash of a Braniff Airlines Electra, flight 542, from Houston to NY was causes by a UFO on September 29, 1959, in retaliaion for the USAF efforts a few days before.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: Magnetic Fields Of Distant Moons Hint At Life From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 20:30:05 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 21:54:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Magnetic Fields Of Distant Moons Hint At Life Just received an update from Michael Lindemann saying that nearly all of William J. Broad's articles come from the New York Times, so in all probability that is where this one originates. But he will try to track it down. Stig
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 21 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 36 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 13:16:35 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 21:38:03 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 36 --------------------- UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 36 September 21, 1997 Editor: Joseph Trainor MUFON IOWA INVESTIGATES SIOUX CITY SIGHTING MUFON Iowa is currently investigating a UFO sighting that took place in a rural area near Sioux City, Iowa, 200 miles west of Des Moines, the night of August 7, 1997. Three people were involved in the sighting-- a 50-year-old woman, her 22-year-old son, and her 11-year-old grandson. At 9:30 p.m. on August 7, the boys were driving home when the younger one spotted a triangular UFO in the sky. "The first triangle was 500 feet away and about 200 feet (in) altitude," Beverly Trout, Iowa MUFON state director reported, "and moved parallel at about 20 miles per hour. The 60-foot triangle moved in a generally easterly direction for about two miles, as the boys drove through Stone Park, a heavily wooded area of hills, deep ravines and winding roads. Eventually it crossed the road just behind the vehicle and headed back to the west." When they turned onto the road leading to their farmhouse, a "strange animal" bumped into the car's passenger door. "The boys described it as reminding them of a hyena." Arriving at home, the boys told their mother/ grandmother. She responded that there were "no such things" as UFOs. "Just then," Ms. Trout added, "the 11-year-old pointed to the southwest of their house, and there was another triangle about 300 feet in size about 3/4 of a mile (1.2 kilometers) and only about 500 feet (in) altitude, moving very slowly." The UFO hovered for 15 minutes. To the west of the house, the family noticed an "amber-colored globe of light" in the sky, "with an apparent size of a little less than a full moon, from which three globes emerged (same size as the original globe), darted around, then re-merged with the original, then faded." Since the sighting, the younger boy has had repeated dreams featuring "large heads with no faces." Also, the boys did not arrive home until 10:45 p.m., after what should have been a 15-minute drive. The case is being investigated by Beverly Trout, Irene Barnes, Dr. Lawrence Lacey and MUFON consultant Robert Lyon. (Editor's Comment: The previous night, August 6, the Sioux City Police Dept. received multiple reports of a Bigfoot on 17th Street in the city's Northside section. See the Sioux City, Iowa Journal for August 9, 1997.) UFOs SIGHTED IN AND NEAR ROSEBURG, OREGON On Saturday, August 23, 1997, at 1:30 p.m., eight people, including an officer of the Oregon State Police, spied a daylight disc hovering over the Green district in Roseburg, Oregon (population 16,644). Roseburg is 178 miles (285 kilometers) south of Portland, the largest city in Oregon. "The residents stood out on the street and watched a large silver disk floating directly overhead," reported Autumn Shepperd and Bob Williams of ProjectLink. "When one of the residents looked at the object through a scope, he could see colors moving around on the bottom of the disk--yellow,red, blue, green." "The object made small rapid movements from side to side but stayed directly overhead for approximately 30 minutes. The witnesses claimed that it looked like it was 'jumping back and forth'...When the craft left, it streaked away at a very high rate of speed and faded out of sight." Two weeks earlier, on August 11, 1997, two hikers camping out near Red Butte, near Three-Finger Jack, in the Cascade Mountains reported a UFO sighting at 3:30 a.m. One hiker saw a "weird-looking" bright "star" on the eastern horizon. "He pointed it out to his friend. The light was greenish-red in color and eventually moved up, left, down and then dipped below the horizon. He said that the light appeared to be 50 to 75 miles away, and he calculated it to be north of the city of Bend (population 17,263), out in the desert." On Sunday, August 31, Autumn and Bob set up their own skywatch at Cottage Grove Lake, north of Roseburg. "We chose a clearing that would offer a clear view of the night sky and the horizon and set up the tent. At exactly 8:59 p.m., a red light appeared 300 to 400 feet above the horizon to the west-southwest. Bob, my partner, looked at it through the binoculars," Autumn reported. "I turned the camcorder on it. It remained stationary and pulsed, changing colors from white to red and back again, then to blue and finally to green. Finally, it blinked out and was gone." Autumn added that she and Bob spotted two UFOs at Cottage Grove Lake in 1995. (Many thanks to Autumn Shepperd and Bob Williams of ProjectLink for this report.) UFOs APPEAR OVER TOWNS IN SOUTHERN COLORADO On Friday, August 22, 1997, at 8:30 p.m., people living in Mesita, Colorado (population 900) reported "watching several lights of some craft" flying over the South Pinyon Hills, along the Rio Grande River, just north of the New Mexico state line. Three witnesses saw two bright lights, "like huge car headlights, with one intermittently visible to the west in a 'large thunderhead' (cloud). "Then they watched a golden light that appeared low to the south, near the Colorado/New Mexico border." On Thursday, September 4, 1997, at 8:30 p.m., two Mesita witnesses "observed two large craft, each with a row of six whitish-orange lights, slowly drifting around over the South Pinyon Hills." The UFOs moved in unison and were described as being "a little larger than a (U.S. Air Force C-131) transport plane." "After traveling north for about ten miles, they slowly began drifting west across the San Luis Valley between Antonito (population 1,103) and Romeo (population 308). At no time did the objects travel faster than an estimated 40 miles per hour. The sighting lasted about 40 minutes." On Friday, September 5, 1997, at 11:30 p.m., two witnesses at the Baca Grande development, about 90 miles (144 kilometers) north of the New Mexico state line, claim to have seen "a large craft hovering over the center of the San Luis Valley. They described unblinking red and green lights that seemed to be arrayed around the object." On Saturday, September 6, 1997, at 3:30 a.m., a man resting in his car on County Road T near Crestone "was awakened by a roaring sound that sounded like an old train." At first he thought it was a jet flying over. But when the sound did not diminish, he rolled down his car windows, hoping to get a fix on the source. The noise, which he described as "clanking sounds," seemed to be coming from the southwest. But he saw nothing but open range in that direction. (Many thanks to UFO author/ researcher Christopher O'Brien and Mike Lindemann of CNI News for this item. These stories originally appeared in CNI News, volume 3, number 14, part 2 for the date September 16, 1997.) TWO UFOs SIGHTED OVER DULUTH, MINNESOTA On Saturday, September 6, 1997, at 9:30 p.m., Van D. was sitting at home in the Morgan Park section of Duluth, Minnesota (population 92,811), watching a wrestling match on TV. "I looked out the window," Van said, "And all of a sudden, I saw this triangle-shaped aircraft. It had bright white lights at the end of each of the corners. And in back of the aircraft, it had red lights, sort of like the engine. So I watched it fly across the sky not far from my house." "I heard nothing, absolutely nothing, no noise or anything. So then I turned and saw this other aircraft, more like the flying saucer type. It had bright red lights encircling the craft, and a bright white light on top. So I watched it fly across, too. No sound at all." Van ran upstairs to get a telescope. But, by the time he returned, "the spaceships seemed to have disappeared." Then, about 20 minutes later, he "saw the saucer-shaped object flying far beyond my backyard, but it was moving too fast for me to see anything with the telescope." (Email Interview) (Editor's Comment: Van's sighting occurred 48 hours after I spotted two mysterious "green flashes" along the shore and over Lake Superior near Beaver Bay, Minnesota, 50 miles (80 kilometers) northeast of Duluth, at 8:53 p.m. on Thursday, September 4.) MIRAGE JETS HUNT SAUCERS OVER EASTERN FRANCE A UFO flap is rocking eastern France, with sightings around Metz, Nancy and Pont au Mousson. The first incident took place on Sunday, September 7, 1997 at 10 p.m. M. and Mme. Patrick Rapp were attending a late-evening banquet in Metz, a city in the department of Moselle, "when they saw a strange ball of light close by the Metz cathedral." Immediately M. Rapp grabbed his video camcorder and began shooting. The camera was fitted with an X30 zoom. "While looking through the viewfinder, M. Rapp saw an oval shape, light yellow with some traces of green." He managed to get 10 seconds of video before the UFO zipped away. M. Rapp called the Metz city police, who turned the matter over to the Gendarmerie. In France, the Gendarmerie takes charge of all official UFO enquiries. (See the French newspaper Le Republican Lorrain for September 10, 1997.) On Monday, September 8, 1997, at 1:43 a.m., a Parisian man "saw a triangular shape over Boulogne, in the department Haute de Seine." The UFO "had a blue-green light on each corner." On Thursday, September 4, 1997, at 11:17 p.m., "Three researchers on a UFO watch close to Thionville, in the department Meurthe et Moselle, saw a big triangle with three green lights when a lightning bolt illuminated the sky. The object's size was about 300 meters (990 feet) long for each side. This large construction was flying very slowly near Metz." On Friday, September 5, 1997, at 4:30 a.m., a man saw a green lightning ball near Val et Chatillon, in the department of Meurthe et Moselle. The ball was followed by an orange line. This object was also seen in Jarville, a suburb on the northern side of the city of Nancy." On Monday, September 8, 1997, "a green ball was seen" at 9 p.m. "above Pont au Mousson, in Meurthe et Moselle. Ten minutes later, the area was overflown by a squadron of Mirage 2000s, the Armee de l'Air's (French Air Force--J.T.) top-of-the-line jet fighters. Observers counted no fewer than 10 Mirage jets over the Metz/Nancy region, flying what appeared to be a combat air patrol. The Armee de l'Air made no comments about the maneuvers, and there was no mention of the incident in the French news media. On Tuesday, September 9, 1997, at 10 p.m., a "bright white light" was seen at Buxy, in the department Seine et Loire, by four witnesses. "They saw the light hovering close to their house. The light appeared to belong to a large shape. Only one side of it could be seen, the one illuminated by the strange light." (Merci beaucoup a Robert Fischer pour ces nouvelles.) TRIANGULAR UFO MAKES A FAST FLYBY IN BELGIUM On Sunday, September 14, 1997, at 10:30 p.m., Kim M. "saw a triangular-shaped UFO" outside her home in Bruges, a city in Belgium. "I was looking to the sky, and I saw the big triangular UFO," Kim reported. "It had one flashing white light on each corner and in the middle was a red light, on the top. It flew over our house and flew away. It was a weird sight, but this is not the first time that I've seen a UFO. Once a triangular shape came so close we thought it was going to fly in the bedroom window." (Many thanks to John Hayes for forwarding this email report.) BRAZILIAN INSTITUTE BEGINS INVESTIGATION OF ONGOING SAO PAULO SAUCER FLAP A recent spurt of UFO sightings in Vale de Paraiba, approximately 100 kilometers (60 miles) northeast of the city of Sao Paulo, has prompted a Brazilian scientific institute to study the matter. According to the newspaper O Estado de Sao Paulo, researcher Ricardo Varela Correa of the Instituto Nacional de Pesquisas Espaciais (National Institute for Space Researches), INPE for short, in Sao Jose de Campos, S.P. In the last three months, Varela said, "luminous forms" have been seen over Vale de Paraiba "more than ten per month." "A resident of Sao Jose de Campos telephoned, terrified, to tell the institute that he had seen, flying inside his residence, a sphere of approximately 15 centimeters in diameter, of a silver-blue color," Varela said. "The object emitted light, quickly entered each room and then disappeared." Months earlier, a woman told Varela that "a mysterious light had invaded her house and lit up every room. After scaring her family, the light disappeared without leaving any vestiges." On May 21, 1997, he added, the institute itself received a UFO visitor. "A red light appeared about 9 p.m., hovered over the (INPE) administration building, and then, suddenly, it moved in various directions and overflew other buildings of the institute." (See the Brazilian newspaper O Estado de Sao Paulo for September 15, 1997. Muito obrigado a Eduardo Castor Borgonovi por eso caso.) UFO VIDEOTAPED BY TV CREW IN THE ANDES OF BOLIVIA On Wednesday, September 17, 1997, at 8:30 p.m., a UFO appeared and hovered over the village of Ceja de El Alto, not far from La Paz, the national capital of Bolivia. The village is high up in the Andes at an elevation of 4,080 meters (13,464 feet). According to the newspaper Ultima Hora, the UFO consisted of an object with "four bright lights" that "hovered for several minutes and then flew away to the west 'at fantastic speed.' The UFO alarmed many people and was filmed by Canal (Channel) 4, a TV station in La Paz." The sighting lasted about seven minutes. Channel 4 in La Paz aired its video footage the following day. (See the newspaper Ultima Hora of La Paz, Bolivia for September 18, 1997. Muchas gracias a Eduardo Castor Borgonovi para esas noticias.) TWO YOWIE INCIDENTS REPORTED IN AUSTRALIA Two sightings of the Yowie, a tall, hairy hominid similar to North America's Bigfoot, were reported in north central Australia during August. According to Tim Bull of the Australian Centre for Mystery Investigations, a Mr. Evan claimed to have seen "a 9-foot-tall (2.8 meters) black creature covered with short hair on the side of the road about 15 miles (25 kilometers) southwest of Alice Springs." Upon seeing Mr. Evan's vehicle, "the beast jumped sideways and lumbered off into the sparsely vegetated desert." The second incident took place in Australia's Tanimi Desert, about 400 miles (640 kilometers) south of Darwin, Northern Territory (N.T.) A farmer was awakened at 3 a.m. by "a terrible screeching noise... like nothing she had ever heard before just outside her bedroom window." When she went to check it out, "she was overwhelmed by a disgustingly foul odor that made her dry reach (nearly vomit--J.T.). At the same time, she saw a '7-foot-tall dark-coloured creature with his hair about the length of my hand, no neck and long arms crash through her back fence." The following morning, Australian police found numerous Bigfoot-type tracks on the property and a two-inch irrigation pipe that had nearly been chewed through. Some in Australia theorize that the recent drought has forced the Yowie population of the N.T. into inhabited areas in search of water. On September 10, Tim Bull said, "Althought it is hard to believe that such a creature could exist in the harsh conditions that prevail out there, I do, however, feel that there is overwhelming evidence to suggest that a number of Bigfoot-type creatures are roaming in the interior of Australia. (Many thanks to Errol Bruce-Knapp and Tim Bull of ACMI for this story.) BOAT-SHAPED UFO SEEN IN CENTRAL ITALY On Wednesday, September 10, 1997, at 10 p.m., a UFO shaped "like a huge aerial boat" was seen over the provinces of Parma, Pavia and Massa Carrara. Witnesses, who numbered in the hundreds, said they saw "a luminous glow around the object." The case is being investigated by the Centro Italiano di Studi Ufologici (CISU), whose investigators include Renzo Cabassi, Umberto Cordier and Roberto Labanti. (See the Italian newspaper La Republica for September 11, 1997. Grazie a Edoardo Russo di CISU.) ROUNDUP CORRIGENDA: In UFO ROUNDUP, volume 2, number 27, we reported a UFO sighting in the Persian Gulf, off the shore of Bahrain. The item mistakenly identified our source, M.L. Adwani, as "a local ufologist." Mr. Al-Adwani writes, "I am neither a ufologist, nor am I a local. I have not interviewed anyone, and I did not see the phenomenon myself. I merely sent you a brief note on what was reported in the local newspaper." UFO ROUNDUP regrets the error. from the UFO Files... 1954: UFO VISITS INDIA One of the strangest UFO sightings in India occurred on September 15, 1954 at Manbhum, in Bihar state. Ijapada Chatterjee was working in his office at the mica mine outside Manbhum that day (he was the manager) when he heard the miners shouting. Rushing outdoors, Chatterjee "watched a saucer-shaped object descend to an altitude of about 500 feet. The UFO hovered, then soared upwards at terrific speed, causing a tremendous gust of wind." "The object was seen over a mine which has supplied berylium for the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission." (See THE UFO EVIDENCE, Barnes & Noble Books, Copyright 1964 by the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena, editor-Richard H. Hall, page 124) Today marks the birthday of that fundamentalist firebrand, Girolamo Savonarola, born in northern Italy on September 21, 1452. As a Dominican friar, Savonarola's preaching won over such a legion of followers that he was able to oust Pietro di Medici and rule Florence for three years as a religious dictator. In addition to dumping on the Medicis and other Renaissance princes, Savonarola criticized Pope Alexander VI (nee Rodrigo Borgia, uncle of Cesare and Lucrezia). It seems Rodrigo was breaking his vow of chastity three or four times a week with his 15-year-old mistress, Francesca. Arrested by the Inquisition, Savonarola was tried and convicted of heresy and sedition. He was burned at the stake on May 23, 1498. Happy birthday, Girolamo! And we'll be back next week with more saucer news from "the paper that goes home--UFO ROUNDUP." UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1997 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post items from UFO ROUNDUP on their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date the item was published.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: Lennon's UFO Experience From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 20:34:39 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 21:54:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Lennon's UFO Experience In my follow-up to Rebecca's e-mail about the upcoming feature on 'Strange Universe' concerning John Lennon's UFO Experience, I incorporated a quote from the July '96 issue of 'Encounters' magazine where the story is told by his then partner, May Pang, who shared the experience with him. Unfortunely I was a little absent-minded, writing that the quote was from the magazine 'Alien Encounters', which didn't exist then. Both magazines are published by British 'Paragon Publishing' and very much alike in style. 'Encounters' deals with 'occult' phenomena in general, including UFOs, while 'Alien Encounters' focuses on the latter. Anyhow I sent a re-mail to notify the subscribers of UFO Updates about the mistake. EBK seems to have been busy though, as he followed it up by substituting 'Strange Universe' with 'Alien Encounters' in the first one. Guess it would have been better for all parties if I had posted the right version of the whole thing instead, so that will be my course of action the next time. Stig
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 21 DISPATCH #69 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope From: ParaScope@AOL.COM Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 15:19:54 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 22:05:11 -0400 Subject: DISPATCH #69 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope DISPATCH #69 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope S O M E T H I N G S T R A N G E I S H A P P E N I N G 9/20/97 Quote of the Week "Let their table become a snare before them: and that which should have been for their welfare, let it become a trap. Let their eyes be darkened, that they see not; and make their loins continually to shake. Pour out thine indignation upon them, and let they wrathful anger take hold of them. Let their habitation be desolate; and let none dwell in their tents.'' --Psalm 69, 22-25 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Rant of the Week: "Goodbye Batman's Foe" Every week we pick the wackiest, scariest, nastiest or funniest rant from the hundreds of letters received by us here at ParaScope headquarters, and present it to you as our Rant of the Week. This week, "Calvin" beseeches us to run the lyrics of a song parody entitled "Good-bye Batman's Foe," a humorous rejoinder sung to the tune of Elton John's "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road," bidding a fond farewell to Burgess "the Penguin" Meredith. Alas, Calvin's rant ran a bit long, and we don't have time for the song itself, just the rant. (Sorry Calvin. We hate to let you down.) Enjoy. "My good, dear friends at ParaScope, I know I already sent this to you once, but no one replied. (Apparently you're all to busy to answer mail that you don't consider vital to your mission.) Well, here it is again, because damn it, I just can't get the phrase 'Goodbye Batman's foe' dislodged from my brain. I woke up softly singing it this morning, involuntarily, and it really seemed to start the day off right. It's just so massively, gorgeously [dang] funny, and a perfectly succint indictment of what a whore Elton 'terribly moved by the occasion but too lazy to write a whole new song' John is, that I beseech you, my friends, to please pass this along to your readers. I tell you, it is good. Perhaps you can run it in your Dispatch newsletter. Please. I don't ask much from you people at ParaScope. Hear this plea. Ours is the power to make a lot of people very happy by introducing the heartfelt magic of the 'Batman's Foe' song into their lives. Don't do it for me. Do it for Burgess. He never let us down, and I know you won't either. The power to dream is the power to dream the dream." [Reprinted with spelling and grammar goofs unchanged. Names changed to protect the ranters.] -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Thank God It's Friday We know how you folks love your must-see TV, so we're moving ParaScope's web edition to Fridays to give you plenty of time to watch your shows before diving into a fresh new edition of ParaScope on the web. So from now on, Thursday will be your last chance to catch the prior week's news on the web, and Friday will mark the new publication date for the web site. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Get It Off Your Chest Oh, sure, we get lots of rants here at ParaScope. (See "Rant of the Week" above.) We get rants, raves, screeds, epistles, testimonials and raging diatribes. But we don't get too many of what we'd characterize as well thought out, reasonable, rational "letters to the editor," particularly when those letters take a position contrary to the ones we espouse. Now it's possible (albeit unlikely) that everyone who disagrees with what ParaScope publishes is simply not a good letter-writer. We hope this isn't the case. If you've got a gripe, groan or grouse to share, send us a well-written letter to the editor. If it's good, we'll run it here. Send letters to info@parascope.com with the subject line: letter to editor. ---------------- Time to Get Religion Many of you have written to us (if you want to call it writing) pointing our how unhappy you are with our stance on religion. This puzzles us for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that we here at the Scope have no stance on religion. If it seems like we run a large number of religious rants, that's because so many of the rants we receive are oriented toward religious issues. So to all you folks out there -- mainly folks on our web site, who seem much more hung up about religion than our AOL audience -- anyway, for those of you who want to debate religious conspiracies ("Did the Vatican kill Princess Di?"), UFO religion issues ("Are aliens angels in disguise?") and even paranormal religious stuff ("Is faith healing real?"), please post your messages in the newly created religion message board. Rants, screeds and diatribes of a religious nature posted in other areas will be deleted. Thanks for your support, and God bless. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Coming Up Next Week! Catch all these stories next week on a daily basis on America Online, or all at once next Friday on the web site! Conspiracy Newsline Get daily updates on conspiracy news: General Benton K. Partin testifies before a grand jury that more than one bomb was used to destroy the Alfred P. Murrah federal building; Tennessee judge rejects James Earl Ray's release request; the LAPD gets 600 shiny new M-16s; Paula Jones slapped with IRS audit after turning down Clinton lawsuit settlement. ----------------------- Richard Hoagland's Cosmic Rorschach Test Much has been made of researcher Richard Hoagland's claims of monuments on the Moon and artifacts on Mars, including the now famous "Face on Mars" and pyramid-shaped hills of the Cydonia region of Mars. Is there really something to his outrageous claims or are Hoagland's software-interpolated images a cosmic Rorschach test in which believers see secret symbols and skeptics see dust and rocks? Take an inside view of this controversy from reports filed from the field from NASA JPL briefings and Hoagland briefings alike. ----------------------- U.S. Aids Tests Denounced: Research on Pregnant Women in Third World Compared to Tuskegee Experiments A set of federally funded studies in developing countries was strongly criticized this week in the New England Journal of Medicine. An editorial charged that the tests, which seek ways of combating AIDS in pregnant women, are abandoning the babies of the women who are HIV-positive by placing them in the "placebo" group, which receives fake medicine. The controversy has given rise to comparisons with the notorious Tuskegee experiments, in which poor black men in Alabama were purposefully left untreated to study the long-range effects of syphilis. Defenders of the testing say the placebo group is a regrettable necessity. Is this a case of good intentions gone awry or a clear and drastic breach of medical ethics? Dossier investigates. ----------------------- Fortean Slips: Omnibus Round-Up of Geek Tragedies This VERY special edition of Fortean Slips is devoted to weirdness found in the ultimate excesses of neurotic nerds and lovable losers. Your pocket protector will runneth over with such grandiose geekery! To wit: Virtual Love Doll: Hollywood high-tech meets the Internet porn industry in a frighteningly lifelike silicone replica of a beautiful woman -- and the only thing that's inflated is the price. Floppy Bacteria: Throw out your virus disinfectant software -- a new super-sophisticated computer data storage technology is derived from bacteria membranes. Comic Book Immortality: All his life Mark Gruenwald wanted to be in comics, and now the deceased Marvel writer's ashes have been mixed into the ink for a commemorative reprinting of his heroic work. Trek Addiction: Beam me to the Betty Ford Center, Scotty -- five to 10 percent of Trekkers exhibit symptoms of clinical dependence. ----------------------- Suffering the Legacy of Waco: The Rules of Engagement Everyone knows what happened at the famous Waco stand-off. David Koresh and his crazy band of suicidal lunatics died in a tragic fire of their own design after shooting at federal agents and flouting the law for 51 days. The good guys tried everything, played by the rules, while Koresh and his Mt. Carmel crazies got what they deserved? Well, that's one side of the story -- the one people like FBI spokesman Bob Ricks and members of the mainstream media would have you believe. But a gut-wrenching documentary is taking art-house theaters by storm, showing the horror, insanity and depravity endured by the Branch Davidians and the hands of federal agents. Waco: The Rules of Engagement presents a startling picture of the events at the Waco stand-off, a side of the story you won't see anywhere else. ParaScope explores the shocking details of this important new investigative film in a comprehensive review and analysis you won't want to miss. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing! Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway? Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe yourself from Dispatch: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch That's all there is to it! Likewise, to unsubscribe: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch ---------------------------------------- ParaScope 11288 Ventura Blvd., #904 Studio City, CA 91604 America Online -- keyword: parascope parascope@aol.com World-Wide Web -- http://www.parascope.com info@parascope.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: parascope | info |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Ed Dames on the Phoenix 'Lights' From: Michael Curta <UFOMedic@net1comm.com> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 16:26:58 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:05:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Ed Dames on the Phoenix 'Lights' >From: William.Hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com >Date: Friday, 19 September 1997 7:37am MT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Ed Dames on the Phoenix Lights >ON ED DAMES ON THE PHOENIX LIGHTS >Art Bell again hosted Ed Dames on Thursday evening. >This time Ed reveals an explanation for the Phoenix >Lights gleaned through the medium of "technical >remote viewing". >Ed gets my award for the "silliest" explanation I >have heard to date. If his report on the pathogens >released upon our poor unsuspecting world had this >same level of credibility, then I would tell all of >you to relax. Do not take such entertainment seriously. Bill- I agree with you. His explanation is the silliest damn thing I have heard in a long time. He has never been right on anything he has done with his TRV. Every time Art Bell tries to pin him down on something, he always says he need to do more work on it. You and some of the other old timers like myself, might remember Ed from the late 80's or early 90's when he posted his TRV findings to MUFONet and FIDOnet. He stated that there would be a mass UFO landing in the Four Corners area and the aliens would step off with hundreds of hybrid babies and ask us for help in caring for them. He even gave the exact date it would happen. If I remember right it was to happen in late August like the 26th or 29th. but I don't remember the year. Well we all know that did not happen. We never heard for him after that until a year or two ago when Art found him. I believe there might be something to RV but I don't thing Ed can do it. 3 of his own army buddies came on Art's show and said he was not all that he claimed to be. Nor did he run the unit as he has claimed on several shows. I would also like to point out to those that might not know that he is NOT a Major, he is a Retired Major. To call him Major adds a cretin credibility to what he says and it should not. [Snip] Regards, Michael Curta Search for other documents from or mentioning: ufomedic |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions From: Perry Mick <perrym@teleport.com> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 15:38:00 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:07:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions >From: nick@emailme.at.address.below (Nick Humphries) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions >Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 15:14:26 GMT >On Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:49:44 -0400, you wrote: >>Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:39:28 +0200 (MET DST) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >>Subject: Re: Scientific American explains abductions >>Hi all, >>Guess what. Elizabeth "false memory" Loftus has written an article >>in the September issue of Scientific American that says that >>alien abductions are all a trick of the mind. >Not quite true - I don't think she even mentioned aliens at all (this IS a >science journal after all), but concentrated on high-fear situations like >abuse. And her research IS very interesting and raises several questions >relating to abductee research, specifically the investigation techniques of >abduction researchers. Not quite true - I just bought a copy of SciAm, haven't read the article yet, but the intro on the table of contents page (page 4) clearly says "childhood abuse and alien abductions -- that never occurred".
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: More Military Jet Crashes From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 08:43:50 +1000 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:10:35 -0400 Subject: Re: More Military Jet Crashes >Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 10:33:52 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: More Military Jet Crashes >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) >> Subject: More military jet crashes. >> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 17:29:11 EST >And it turns out it doesn't take a real mathematician or statistician to >calculate the odds of this having occurred due to random chance. I don't >know how many crashes per year we typically have. Let's say it's 36.5 >crashes, to make the arithmetic simpler. Then the odds of a crash >occurring on any one day of the year is 0.1, or 36.5/365. So if you had 6 >crashes on successive days, the odds for that would be 0.1x0.1x0.1x0.1x0.1 >= 1/100,000. (One doesn't count the first crash, which initiated the >string.) >The odds of not having a crash on any one day is 0.9. So if you had 6 >crashes in 7 days, with no crash on the 4th day, say, the odds for that >would be nearly the same: 0.1x0.1x0.9x0.1x0.1x0.1, or 1 in 90,000. These >are pretty slim odds, though you'd expect it to happen one time in about >247 years (247 being 90,000/365). This is rare enough to make one suspect >some sort of sabotage. But I don't know if the 36 crashes per year >figure is in the right ballpark or not. >Jim Deardorff This doesn't in any way discount random occurance. Clustering is very common in random number analysis. The error is that we assume that randomly distributed numbers will be spread apart. The 'odds' are reset for every occurance. i.e: A coin can acheive 2 states (heads or tails) so the odds are 50%, if you flip a coin 1000 times you would expect 500 heads and 500 tails, but that does not have to be the outcome. The coin has no knowledge of past results, each flip is a new occurance having a 50% chance of heads or tails. If you flipped 999 heads and 1 tails this would not violate randomness and the odds would not change. Dave Everett. Search for other documents from or mentioning: deverett | deardorj |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 Alfred's Odd Ode #182 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 18:32:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:17:36 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #182 Apology to MW #182 (For September 21, 1997) So where are we now at millennia's end? What do we know; what can we pretend? Where is the calmness the Christians portend? What of the legends, and what they contend? And how is an answer found in the past? When can you point efficacious repast? What year was it better, at the end, at the last? It's "NEVER BEEN BETTER's" too quick and too fast. Don't look to the eighties, they weren't good to you. The man was un-reigned and was stealing you blue. The savings and loans pilfered billions, it's true! The few gone to jail are now *living* brand new. Don't look to the seventies, it called up your bluff. The man got you hooked on the concept of *stuff*. Now the world is miserable; still, we can't get enough. We've mortgaged our soul, we're not fair, and played rough. Don't look to the sixties, we blew our chance then. We copped to mere dollars and we made them like kin. We could have improved -- could have had different spin, But we faltered, and blew it=85 took the low road again. Don't look to the fifties, a distorted sick joke. Here was a woman still stuck to man's yoke. Here were mere Negroes "happy and broke". Here was the white man, a proud virile bloke. And don't look to the forties with the world at war -- With Gypsies and Jews being gassed behind doors. With business gone rampant, and eugenics the score, Where Darwin is social and defines the ground floor. Don't look to the thirties where we're lost in the dark. And the millionaires dance while the poor try to hark. Where the breadline is heaven, and it's absence is stark, Where they're gnawing the trees to get at the bark. And forget all the twenties, a hell of intolerance Where business was government, but government incompetence. Respect and concern for our least not incontinent, And the noses of leaders grown long as our continent. Continue to trod in the past's sullen reaches. Continue the search for those kind, mythic beaches. Continue to look in it's crannies and niches, And find only fundament, raw deals, and glitches. So what do we do if the past's not a sponsor. It's the past that has poisoned, truly giving us cancer. We're not looking up as our skies fill with dancers. Look up to our future; the future's the answer! Lehmberg@snowhill.com My look at the documents of history indicate that NOTHING happened the way I learned it did. I resent it, Culture mine! Now I _want_ to be a team player=85but what about the guy (usually) that resents like me, but decides he _doesn't_ want to be a team player -- gonna put more of him in jail until _your_ numbers are exceeded? What a maroon! -- Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for pointing out the past was a lie. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" Personal HARASSMENT; however, the harassment index is infinite for each of us. Consider the fundament,raw deals, and glitches.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 UFO News International 28 From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 03:16:54 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:28:53 -0400 Subject: UFO News International 28 ______ ______ ___________________________ | | | / \ ___ ____ | | | | | |\ | | \ / / | | |____ | | | \ | |___ \ /\ / /____ | | | | | | \| |___ \ / \ |______| | \______/ ___________ / ________________________/ ____ I n t e r n a t i o n a l ____ _________________________________ =FF - 28 - American Computer, conversation with president Jack Shulman = 2 Additional information about alien technology transfer = 6 Background Jack Shulman = 8 Official history of the transistor = 8 Quote = 11 Sighting in Arizona = 11 Light stuff = 13 Media = 14 Service = 15 Letter from Ben # 3 = 16 You can use UFO News International articles = 18 Editor's notes: = 19 - 1 of 20 - - UFO News International 28 - ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ************************************************************* American Computer, conversation with president Jack Shulman ************************************************************** A recent revelation by American Computer, a New Jersey based producer of personal computers, confirms the claims made by Lt. Col. Phillip Corso (ret.) about the gradual leaking of alien technology into American companies and laboratories by the US Army. Corso and American Computer both claim that the US Army acquired technology from crashed extraterrestrial vehicles, notably the one that crashed near Roswell in 1947, and provided samples of it to major US industrial corporations. After acquiring and studying samples of extraterrestrial technology, Bell Labs, then a part of telephone giant AT & T and now a part of Lucent Technologies, invented devices like the transistor, the laser, the modem and the digital signal processor. The claims of American Computer (AC) can be found on its web site. http://www.American-Computer.com/roswell.htm. Corso's story can be found in his book 'The Day after Roswell' by Simon & Schuster. The investigation is ongoing. This week I phoned Jack Shulman, president of American Computer, internationally. This is destillation of the conversation. +++++ American Computer produces pc's, servers, notebooks and communi- cations equipment. It is a privately owned company so it does not issue a public financial report. It has four divisions and a total of 200-220 employees. Shulman explained the Roswell story on their web site: 'The posting on our web site is inconsistent with our business practice. In fact to post such a story is an insane thing to do for a small computer company. My initial reaction to the idea was that this kind of publicity is bad. Why would I publish anything about UFOs? But the story that came from our consultant struck a personal chord with us, especially with me. I want to be a mediator of concepts that are debunked. Though the matter is important, my position in this whole thing is one of neutrality. My intention is to find out the facts.' Shulman had not realized that the story on ACC's web site would be noticed so fast by many people, especially the UFO community. 'The message was posted in the beginning of August. We [ Schulman and his consultant who did the research ] have not read Colonel Corso's book "The Day after Roswell" and we will not do so before October. We want to give ourselves a window of three months in which we can process the information that is coming toward us with as much integrity as we can. You know how the mind works. We want to find out the truth even more than you do.' - 2 of 20 - - UFO News International 28 - To this date Bell Laboratories or its owner Lucent Technologies have not given a reaction. Shulman: 'So far I am surprised by the lack of response from the Bell System. That is strange because I know these people quite well and they know me. The only thing I heard was that a web few pages on the site of Lucent Technolo- gies [ Lucent was spun off from ATT a few years ago ] with references to a project called "Starpoint" were put out. I don't know whether this is relevant though.' Schulman wants to make it clear however that he does not say that AT & T, that owned Bell Labs in 1947, is covering up the history of the transistor. In order to not provoke AT & T he refers to the entity that would perhaps be covering up the history of the transistor as the "Bell System". Hereby he means AT & T as it existed in before the break up of the company in 1981. ATT was broken up into AT & T and seven Baby Bells or Regional Bell Operating Companies (RBOCs, like Nynex). Bell Labs remained part of AT & T, but became part of Lucent which was spun off from AT & T a few years ago. Q. What was exactly the innovation that could have come out of alien technology since Bell Labs seemed to be doing research into semiconductors prior to 1947? A: 'Well, the germanium diode had existed for several years. [ A transistor is essentially made of three diodes working together ] 'Its ability to rectify current was well understood for years. [ A germanium diode makes direct current (dc) from alternating current (ac), which is called "rectifiying" ]. There had been two applications based on the natural propensity of germanium and this was the situation for years. All this time nobody ever suggested that germanium diodes could be used in some way as an amplifier or used in oscillatory devices.' [ the transistor is an amplifier ] 'Then you have this inexplicable arrival of transistors with only vague references to earlier research. I don't understand it. I've looked in the books, been to the labs, read the research papers. I also knew the people that were involved in the transistor.' There would have to be more previous research, five to fifteen years or so. I can imagine a physicist would be testing for years day and night for this technology to develop. And how silicon and a gas like boron suddenly got into the picture is a mystery to me. And all that on a budget of 2 million?' Silicon is one of the materials of which transistors can be made. It is now used for most computer chips. Boron is used for "doping" the silicon to create impurities. The impurities enable silicon to become a semiconductor. - 3 of 20 - - UFO News International 28 - The official history of the transistor tells us that Bell Labs started learning the semiconducting properties of silicon in 1945 to be able to create a transistor. They succeeded in creating the first transistor in December 1947. That seems strange, because after semiconducting properties of silicon were discovered one would expect them to create functio- ning diodes first and apply them in various commercial electronic devices. A transistor is a component made out of three diodes that work together in a complex way that was not yet understood in 1945 when the research into semiconducting silicon started. One would expect the arrival of the first transistors years after the first silicon diodes. Could the discovery by Bell Laboratories perhaps be compared with the Wright Brothers trying to design the first motorised aeroplane without having an engine available? Schulman" 'Yes, it is like that.' Shulman: 'What I also don't understand is that in 1947 there were organizations that were more advanced in this kind of research, like Sylvania and Sarnoff. None of them came up with the transistor. I think the version of the Bell System is nothing more than a lovely marketing story.' Shulman says that ACC does not have enough resources to investi- gate the matter on its own. Shulman: 'I hope that you all grab the ball and run with it. You must do the research.' Q: Who have suffered from Bell's covering up this history of the transistor? Shulman: 'The US government has suffered. The technology should have been made available for defense purposes to defend our democracy. Frankly I think the government has gotten a bad rap from the UFO community for supposedly covering things up. The government is a transitory entity. People go in and out. As far as cover-ups are concerned the iceberg is melting on one side, growing on the other. I think the abundance of negativity in the UFO field has caused the cover up.' Q: Following this up, ATT or Lucent could have patents that perhaps are attributed to the alien technology. What patents specifically are we talking about since the transistor involves many patents? A: 'I don't know that. There are probably some aged people who could answer that. I hope they come forward.' Q: Where did your consultant get his information? A: 'He got the story from working on projects before the break up of the Bell System.' Shulman's consultant and Shulman himself worked directly with John Morton, former vice president of Bell Laboratories and with the original inventors. Morton was later killed under mysterious circumstances. This was what struck the personal chord within Schulman when his consultant came with the "alien origin" scenario of the transistor. - 4 of 20 - - UFO News International 28 - Morton worked with Shockley, Bardeen, Brattain, the inventors of the transistor who later received the Nobel Prize for their work. 'But he did not get it from them. First of all he observed that "there were too many secrets" within Bell Labs. Aspects of projects always have to remain confidential, we know that. But here there were too many secrets. There was too much confidentia- lity that was agreed upon in written form under advice from Bell's lawyers. He became disappointed with the situation to the point of disgust. Q: Who told him that the transistor was based on alien technolo- gy? A: 'The story about the alien origin of technology that led to the transistor came directly from the principals of certain projects he worked on.' Q: Was this a rumor or did they say it specifically? A: 'They told him this specifically in more than rumor form. It came from people who have now left AT & T.' Q: Why are you so sure that other companies knew about the alien origin of the technology like IBM, Fairchild and Intel? Are you aware of people who have been involved in the peddling of the technology to these companies? Is there a paper trail? A: 'My consultant is the source from this and those are his conlusions. I am not going to speak for him but if you want my opinion I can't imagine anything this earthshaking just remaining in AT & T.' Q: What new information has reached you through the form you posted on your web site? A: 'A lot has come in, mostly opinions about Roswell a.s.o. But there was one very interesting story from a person in Berkeley Heights. His father was a phycisist at AT & T Micro Electronics.' (Transistors are part of the field of micro electronics.) He claims that he went with his father to a location in New Jersey, perhaps upstate New York, when he was 6 years old in the mid fifties. What he saw there was an intact UFO. That is what his father told him, an intact UFO. AT & T had a facility there. We wrote him back but haven't received an answer so far.' Q: In an earlier interview with Bob Wolf you mentioned Sky Station. What is that? A: 'I mentioned this just to see the reactions I would get.' Q: Can you say what it is? A: 'No, I cannot go into this. I won't answer anymore questions about this.' Shulman explained earlier that he is a fan of space flight, This would explain his interest in more information on this. - 5 of 20 - - UFO News International 28 - Shulman explains he is the chairman of the American Computer Scientists Association. Someone in this group thought of a way to track down the Unabomber by posting his photograph on a lot of web sites along with some information. Shulman: 'This eventually led to his arrest. It took 9 months before the postings on the web sites had an effect. This one will take much longer. This story will take longer to settle in human consciousness.' ************************************************************** Additional information about alien technology transfer ************************************************************** According to ACC's consultant there is no information about transistor research available that is bonafide nor provided by Bell Labs prior to September 1947. Anything about the 1946/47 or 48 period, or after, at Bell Labs about the Transistor, is pure smoke. Bell Labs' germanium diodes were allegedly rather primitive current-wave polarity filtering devices in June of 1947. In September 1947 the Department of the Army directed Bell under contract at the time to pursue radar research into objects of extraterrestrial origin, known as Roswell Extraterrestrial Landers (REL) 1 and 2. Using materials similar in nature to what the spectagraphics department determined was a polysilicon, arsenic and boron material, they were able to first devise an amplifying effect within weeks of the research, and using a variety of methods, they tried to recreate the same materials and apply various electrical currents to them. There are notes at the labs about research that was cloaked behind a cover up story called "black hole machine" designs at the Labs from 1947 to 1975 after the untimely death of John "Jack" Morton", the implications of which are that the technology transferred to the labs may even have influenced computer design advances as components were reverse engineered and it was determined how 'alien computing devices' worked. The UNIX operating system, even the Bell Labs forerunners of the Digital Equipment Corporation PDP-1 (The 1B), the PDP-11 and the Motorola M-6800 (The 2B), the Motorola M-68000 (The 3B), the RISC-SPARC (The 4B) and variations, may all have been caseworks developed from knowledge reverse engineered out of an alien computer so complex that only parts of it are fully understood today. /\ -------- / \ - 6 of 20 - - UFO News International 28 - ACC's consultant equated the alien computational systems as 'about 24th Century Human' in advanced design. The US government has determined that one living person is capable of understanding them, and he's reportedly something of an eccentric and unwilling to work on them. The source also mentioned a 'shuttle bus' of technology interchange that has operated between Bell Labs, IBM, Unisys, Digital Equipment, Fairchild, Intel. In 1973 or 1974, during a strategic investigation into the murder of John Morton, the head of these projects at Bell Labs Semicon- ductors, the Offices of Army and Air Force Strategic Investigati- ons discovered the leak of the materials of extraterrestrial origin by Bell Labs and the false reports filed by Bell in 1947 and 1948. A long term investigation of Bell Labs' improper handling of Strategic Military Materials began under the codename Project Starpoint. Statutes of limitations and denials by Bell Labs officials prevented prosecution, and with breakup of the Bell System already underway, it became impossible for the Army and Air Force to do anything but wince at the whole affair. The consultant said: 'I know, as I was someone who two of the principal officials 'in the know' took the time to relate the information to as part of our mutual efforts to gird AT&T for the impending break up of the Bell System in the 70's.' __|__ --_---_-- \\ \\ _____ According to Jack Shulman, the US Air Force is fully aware of these matters, according to the consultant, but disdains to discuss them itself. Since it has hired the same consultant as American Computer, it must appreciate his opinions. - HvdP ************************************************************** Would you like a direct subscription to UFO News International? Write to hvdp@worldonline.nl ______ /\ /\ \_\ /_/ \ " / \ _ / \ / - 7 of 20 - - UFO News International 28 - ************************************************************** Background Jack Shulman ************************************************************** >From ACC public relations Our Chief Technical Officer (Jack Shulman) invented the innovati- ve design for ODIN, the world's very first Overlapping Windowed Graphical User Interface. ODIN, conceived in 1969, was first demonstrated in late 1973 and early 1974, long before Xerox's Alto Net Star and Dolphin Display Managers. ODIN was the forerunner of today's Windowed operating systems. It had all the basics: overlapping windowed viewing areas, graphical, text and mixed mode editing pads, processor threaded streams, hypertextual links, and programmable interface. It was originally written for the UNIXr operating system, later for computers running the BASIC language, like the Wang 2200. Jack Shulman was haunted by the performance demands of advanced graphical user interfaces, he devised several families of desktop computers and CAD/CAM workstations during the latter part of the 70's and early 80's, including the Genius Workstation and the Garment Design Computer. The GDC's design was integrated by IBM Corporation but being very costly, a streamlined version without many of the systems features was introduced as the PC and the PC Jr in 1981. The PC gave way to the PC/AT which closely resembled the GDC, and subsequent technological advances such as MCA, VESA and PCI have heralded a desktop computer, today's Pentium PC, which have just begun to equal American's original designs of 1979 and 1980. ************************************************************** Official history of the transistor ************************************************************** >From James Easton The following is taken from "Out of the Crystal Maze", edited by Lillian Hoddeson, Ernest Braun, Jurgen Teichmann and Spencer Weart, eminent physicists, who specialise in the history of the science. The book endeavours to document the history of so- lid-state physics and contains much information which is relevant to the history of the transistor. 'The first institutional department to take the whole range of solid-state physics as its field, and even formally as its name, was at Bell Telephone Laboratories. Bell Labs decided to undertake a major effort in research on semiconducting elements, which meant in practice germanium and silicon. The idea was, of course, one which had been around in so many minds for so long - to produce a solid-state amplifier.' - 8 of 20 - - UFO News International 28 - 'As early as 1938, far-sighted director of research, Mervin Kelly, had established a little group in "Physics of the Solid State". By early 1945, Kelly was explaining that with the coming of quantum mechanics, "a unified approach to all our solid state problems offers great promise", and in July he formed the Solid State Physics Department.' 'Kelly and William Shockley co-headed the division, Shockley being the head of the semiconductor research group. The first idea to be tried out more thoroughly was an old one - that is, the modulation of the conductivity of a thin layer of semiconduc- tor material by the application of an electric field perpendicu- lar to the flow of current. This "field effect" had been suggested and tried in numerous unworkable inventions before...' 'Although the ultimate emergence from Bell Labs of the solid-sta- te amplifier - in the shape of the point contact transistor - contained an element of serendipity, it is true to say that it was the deserved reward for years of painstaking, knowledgeable and conscious effort. In the late 1930s, William Shockley suggested a design for a field-effect solid state amplifier and Brattain carried out the experiments, but, like all other attempts of this ilk at that time, it did not work.' In fact the number of people who tried to produce solid-state amplifiers grows steadily as one probes further. Another Bell man, Russell S. Ohl, recalls: "In fact, I took out a patent in which I controlled (on paper), the electron current in a copper oxide rectifier. This was 1927... many people had the same thought. Ohl was also one of the pioneers of the crystal detector and certainly played an important part in the transistor story. Ralph Bray, a young graduate student, joined the germanium effort at Purdue in November 1943 and was given the tricky task of measuring the spreading resistance at the metal-semiconductor contact. Bray found a great many anomalies, such as internal high-resistivity barriers in some samples of germanium. The most curious phenomenon was the exceptionally low resistance observed when voltage pulses were applied. This effect remained a mystery because nobody realised, until 1948, that Bray had observed minority carrier injection - the effect that was identified at Bell Labs and made the transistor a reality. Bray wrote: "That was the one aspect that we missed, but even had we understood the idea of minority carrier injecti- on...we would have said, 'Oh, this explains our effects.' We might not necessarily have gone ahead and said, 'Let's start making transistors', open up a factory and sell them... At that time the important device was the high back voltage rectifier". Another Purdue scientist, Randall Whaley, put the matter in a nutshell: "The irony of the whole thing is that two or three of us were occasionally around lunch asking ourselves, 'Why can't we put a grid on this and make a triode of it to control the electrons?' But in the press of getting degrees and putting - 9 of 20 - - UFO News International 28 - detectors together for MIT, we didn't take the next step and try this" The required modification of theory was undertaken by John Bardeen, at Bell Laboratories. His postulate was that the carriers included in the semiconductor by the electrostatic field (the field effect) failed to modulate its conductivity because they became trapped and immobilized in surface states. Although Bardeen's suggestion proved of decisive value and had some important novel features, it was not without precursors. As early as 1932, I. Tamm calculated that the termination of one-dimensional Kronig-Penney potential led to a surface state when a periodic structure is terminated. In 1939, Shockley postulated surface states arising if two electronic bands within a finite periodic structure intersect. Bardeen concluded that the failure of the field-effect amplifier must be caused by the fact that the charge carriers induced by the applied field became immobilized in surface states, whether on a clean or a dirty surface, and could not contribute to the conductivity. "The novel feature was not the idea of surface states..., but to apply the idea to understand the real surface of a semiconductor". After several further stages of experimentation, mainly by Brattain and Bardeen, aided by the chemist Gibney, a germanium surface was prepared by anodizing it and evaporating gold spots onto the oxide. Transistor action was first observed on 15 December 1947, when "it was found that current flowing in the forward direction from one contact influenced the current flowing in the reverse direction in a neighbouring contact in such a way as to produce voltage amplification". In the memorandum by W. S. Gorton [8], from which this quotation is taken, 12 people are mentioned as directly involved in the invention of the transistor in the Bell Laboratory. On 15 December, Brattain used a gold spot cut into three sections. When the points were, "very close together got voltage amp about 2 but not power amp. This voltage amplification was independent of frequency 10 to 10,000 cycles". On 16 December, Brattain had a gadget made of polystyrene for putting two gold leaf contacts very close together on the germanium surface. He wrote: "Using this double point contact, contact was made to a germanium surface that had been anodized to 90 volts, electrolyte washed off in H20 and then had some gold spots evaporated on it. The gold contacts were pressed down on the bare surface. Both gold contacts to the surface rectified nicely... - 10 of 20 - - UFO News International 28 - The separation between points was about 4 x 10-3 cm. One point was used as a grid and the other point as a plate. The bias (D.C.) on the grid had to be positive to get amplification... power gain 1.3 voltage gain 15 on a plate bias of about 15 volts". It turned out that the oxide was not necessary for the process, and the gold spots were eventually replaced by other metal points. When the electrodes were more closely spaced, it was found that power amplification of 18 could be obtained. On 23 December, 1947, a speech amplifier of this gain was demonstrated by Brattain and H. R. Moore to several of their colleagues and managers. J. H. Pierce gave the device the name transistor because the concept of transresistance suggested itself to him as an analogy with transconductance in vacuum tubes. The news of the transistor was sprung on an unsuspecting and disinterested world on 30 June 1948, at a major press conference. ************************************************************** Quote ************************************************************** 'As the website says: if the story is true, then let's prove it, if its not, then lets disprove it. We all want the Truth, whatever or wherever it may be, and a maybe we can all have a bit of fun for everyone examining the issues, on the road to the Truth.' Jack Shulman, president of American Computer Company ************************************************************** Sighting in Arizona ************************************************************** >From Trudy Schuett Henny, I've received your newsletter since its beginnings -- I print it out and share it with friends who have no computers. Since you've asked for reports, I'd like to submit this sighting: A couple of weeks ago, I'd picked up my nephew, and was giving him a ride home. We live in Yuma, an area of about 126,000 people in Southwest AZ on the California\Mexico border. Home is 15 miles from downtown Yuma, where my nephew, Tim Whitlock, works. The incident occured between 9 and 9.20 PM. - 11 of 20 - - UFO News International 28 - We were heading southbound on Somerton Rd. from County Eighth St., when I saw a light that at that moment appeared to be a new floodlight. In the States, people living in rural areas often have the equivalent of a street light in their back yards. We call them floodlights, and though their original purpose was believed to be theft control, we're now finding they only encourage break-ins. (It's like a big sign saying, "Hey, here we are, we can afford this big light, we must have lotsa stuff!") I hate those lights, because I'm interested in astronomy and the sky above Yuma has always been very clear. So, even though I was driving, I tried to determine the location of this light. It didn't stay in one place; rather, it appeared to follow along at the speed I was driving, about 50 MPH. The distance from the truck on the East varied from 1 to 3 miles, but always keeping about a mile to the Southeast of the truck. When we had to turn West at County 11th Street, we lost sight of the object for a moment. Turning South on Avenue F, we saw it again. Though the light was easily four times the size of an ordinary floodlight, it was the same colour. At that point, Tim and I decided we could drive down the road and get back around the other side of it. We drove past County 12th St, then County 13th. (Each of the County roads are one mile apart, North to South.) We turned East on County 14th, still thinking we could get back around the object, but when we got back the 1/2 mile to Somerton Rd., the object disappeared. At that point it had seemed to be hovering about a mile Southeast of us. It blinked out, just the same as a soap bubble would pop. By then we were heading Northbound on Somerton Rd., a two-lane paved highway. I pulled off to the shoulder, and my nephew and I got out of the vehicle and tried to locate the source of the light. We couldn't find a terresrtrial source. My rudimentary knowledge of astronomy told me that this thing was within the earth's atmosphere, and not farther than 100 feet from the ground. I was aware that Saturn was prominent at this time, but this was not a planetary sighting. After several minutes, we got back in the truck and turned around to head home. We live on County 12th St., but for some reason I turned around and headed back to County 14th.! Once back on Avenue F, we headed Northbound for a few moments when Tim spotted the object again. We stopped, got out, and decided we couldn't chase it again; my husband was waiting up in case my '86 Jeep broke down and he had to come on a rescue mission. Tim was able to see the object until we made the turn on to County 12th Westbound for home. It remained stationary, and by the time we got out of the truck, it was gone. The enire incident took maybe twenty minutes -- from 9.00 to 9.20 PM. Because we are often on the same route at the same time, we look for the object. It has been two or three weeks, but no one has seen the object again. - 12 of 20 - - UFO News International 28 - ************************************************************** Light stuff ************************************************************** Here is a great joke. >From Anton Rager via ISO arager@McGraw-Hill.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Paleoanthropology Division Smithsonian Institute 207 Pennsylvania Avenue Washington, DC 20078 Dear Sir: Thank you for your latest submission to the Institute, labeled "211-D, layer seven, next to the clothesline post. Hominid skull." We have given this specimen a careful and detailed examination, and regret to inform you that we disagree with your theory that it represents "conclusive proof of the presence of Early Man in Charleston county two million years ago." Rather, it appears that what you have found is the head of a Barbie doll, of the variety one of our staff, who has small children, believes to be the "Malibu Barbie". It is evident that you have given a great deal of thought to the analysis of this specimen, and you may be quite certain that those of us who are familiar with your prior work in the field were loathe to come to contradiction with your findings. However, we do feel that there are a number of physical attribu- tes of the specimen which might have tipped you off to it's modern origin: 1. The material is molded plastic. Ancient hominid remains are typically fossilized bone. 2. The cranial capacity of the specimen is approximately 9 cubic centimeters, well below the threshold of even the earliest identified proto-hominids. 3. The dentition pattern evident on the "skull" is more consis- tent with the common domesticated dog than it is with the "ravenous man-eating Pliocene clams" you speculate roamed the wetlands during that time. This latter finding is certainly one of the most intriguing hypotheses you have submitted in your history with this institution, but the evidence seems to weigh rather heavily against it. Without going into too much detail, let us say that: A. The specimen looks like the head of a Barbie doll that a dog has chewed on. - 13 of 20 - - UFO News International 28 - B. Clams don't have teeth. It is with feelings tinged with melancholy that we must deny your request to have the specimen carbon dated. This is partially due to the heavy load our lab must bear in its normal operation, and partly due to carbon dating's notorious inaccuracy in fossils of recent geologic record. To the best of our knowledge, no Barbie dolls were produced prior to 1956 AD, and carbon dating is likely to produce wildly inaccurate results. Sadly, we must also deny your request that we approach the National Science Foundation's Phylogeny Department with the concept of assigning your specimen the scientific name "Australo- pithecus spiff-arino." Speaking personally, I, for one, fought tenaciously for the acceptance of your proposed taxonomy, but was ultimately voted down because the species name you selected was hyphenated, and didn't really sound like it might be Latin. However, we gladly accept your generous donation of this fascinating specimen to the museum. While it is undoubtedly not a hominid fossil, it is, nonetheless, yet another riveting example of the great body of work you seem to accumulate here so effortlessly. You should know that our Director has reserved a special shelf in his own office for the display of the specimens you have previously submitted to the Institution, and the entire staff speculates daily on what you will happen upon next in your digs at the site you have discovered in your back yard. We eagerly anticipate your trip to our nation's capital that you proposed in your last letter, and several of us are pressing the Director to pay for it. We are particularly interested in hearing you expand on your theories surrounding the "trans-positating fillifitation of ferrous ions in a structural matrix" that makes the excellent juvenile Tyrannosaurus Rex femur you recently discovered take on the deceptive appearance of a rusty 9-mm Sears Craftsman Automotive crescent wrench. Yours in Science, Harvey Rowe Curator, Antiquities ************************************************************** Media ************************************************************** Art Bell will have Bob Lazar as his guest on Friday September 27 for his radio show Coast to Coast AM. /\ -------- / \ - 14 of 20 - - UFO News International 28 - ************************************************************** Service ************************************************************** - From a friend Hi All, I have decided to write to all in my address book with a warning of quite serious nature. On Sunday 1st September 1997, my wife intercepted a data call on a normal telephone, connected to the same line I use for data communications with my PC. At the time, I didn't think much of it, however, perhaps I should have. We had also been receiving a lot of phone calls where we would answer and there would be nobody on the other end, just silence. I was using the Internet later that night and actually fell asleep whilst doing so. As per my instructions, the PC disconnected itself from the internet after an absence of input by me after a period of thirty minutes. When I woke the following morning, the programs I had been using were no longer open and I had most certainly not shut them down. After a few minutes of attempting to open a few items of software, I realized that my system was totally unstable. I re-booted the computer and tried again, only to be told that my registry was corrupt and needed to be restored. I shut down the PC after restoring the registry, only to be faced with the same message again. I then realized that the PC was totally corrupted and even booting to Win95 "Safe" mode would not allow me to access any software. I then suspected that my system (which can be a little volatile at times) was in need of a re-format of all hard drives and re-installation of about 1 gigabyte of software and general data. Of this 1 gb, approximately 150 mb was unrecoverable research data I had accumulated over a substantial period of time. I did manage to salvage a little of this prior to the reformat using old DOS based rescue appliccations such as MACE and NORTON and others. It took me two solid days to conduct the reformat, install Win95, and re-install all my software and data from backups. I was the victim of an attack by a HACKER! This attack did not involve the planting of a virus, a Trojan Horse or other offensive program, but rather, my files were read and then corrupted manually. Some of you will be aware that I have trodden on a few "toes" of late, and, this may have been the reason for the attack. - 15 of 20 - - UFO News International 28 - The message I am trying to convey is that UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES LEAVE YOUR PC AND MODEM ON, AND ATTACHED TO THE TELEPHONE LINE. If you do leave your PC and modem attached to the phone line you are leaving yourself open to an attack from any hacker with a little knowledge. At the very least, power down the modem as this will prevent access to your PC, which can then be left "connec- ted", but not vulnerable. Another point to consider is NOT leaving your PC connected to the Internet unattended as this too invites attack from those so inclined. Unless you have a "bullet proof" security set-up, don't take the risk. After poking around the Internet a bit, I have found that there is software available freely which will allow a potential hacker to dial a range of telephone numbers, searching for data connections. People using such software are probably accessing the phone lines by a method called "Phreaking" which means that they access the phone network without paying for the calls themselves. If you receive strange phone calls where there is nobody on the other end, or, you hear a series of "tones" like when you establish a connection to the Internet, LOG THE TIME OF THE CALL and report it to your local telephone service provider. They can then take action to trace and prosecute the offender(s). Please take note of this warning, as, many of you will have "sensitive" data stored on your hard drives in your computers and a lot of it is probably irreplaceable. The second "moral" to this story is to regularly BACK-UP your important and irreplaceable data. I have learned an expensive lesson and I hope that this will aid you in preventing or at least minimizing the same happening to you. Another point worth noting is that I rarely disclose my "data" phone number to anyone - this raises the issue of how the number was located! Regards all ************************************************************** Letter from Ben # 3 ************************************************************** How far can you go? I've had a heated conversation with an individual who for the life of him, cannot accept an alternative explanation or view. I mean this person was militant in his beliefs. I can accept that anybody can have a subjective view on a subject if evidience or facts are not forthcoming or inconclusive. I am a Trekkie and I love science fiction, specially hardcore fiction well based in science. As an artist in heart, I thrive on alternative thinking and speculation that is the fire of imagination. - 16 of 20 - - UFO News International 28 - However I can seperate fantasy or wishful thinking from shared reality. What I may believe has no bearing on reality and vice versa. So this brings me to my question of why? WHY is it that people forsake truth if it is not agreeable to their beliefs. When alternatives that are counterdictive to their beliefs are as valid as the ones they hold dear, they become critical as the people they blame as being closed minded. That is what I cannot fathom. I am accused of closed mindedness, but when I present facts or alternatives, these same "open minded" people who expected to be accepted on face value will not give me the same consideration I give them. Now I ask you and only you, how far will you go? I mean, when does something become too far out or insane for you to believe in. How about CROP CIRCLES, I think they are pretty designs that are lost revenue to the farmers that own the land. Now let me give you a thought. WHY are the crop circles only during growing season and not in winter when the snow has covered the land. Let me give you a second to think about it.................. TIME'S UP. It is easier to cover the tracks of the hoax during growing season. WHY? Because footpints or human signs are very difficult or next to impossible to erase on snow. Tampering to cover up the evidence leaves signs of the tampering. If your are lucky enough to have snow fall to cover up the evidence of a hoax, that same snow fall will cover up the subject of the hoax. I am sorry this may be a bad example but the principle is there. Now how spooky will you go, of all the items you have read or investigated, how many have made you just shake your head or chuckle because they were... well just too far over the deep end. Thanks for taking the time out to read this, it is just that I have risked my life so that the freedom is there to think and believe what anyone wants, but I'am not given that same concide- ration. I hope you can understand that and not take this letter the wrong way. Ben Radar technician for LOCKHEED MARTIN ____ Ben, There are fake crop circles clearly made by people and crop circles that are made by forces we don't understand. Crop circles in the last category show physical phenomena that are yet unexplained. Electromagnetic disturbances have been found in these circles with compasses, radiation with Geiger counters. - 17 of 20 - - UFO News International 28 - There are a few changes in the crops themselves. The knobs in the crops are thicker than usual. The thickness decreases with the distance to the center of the circle. The seeds from the crop grow 4 to 5 faster than usual when coming from the middle of the circle, while this discrepancy with usual growth rates decreases when one gets further away from the center. Dr. Eltjo Haselhoff, Dutch crop circle researcher, has told me that out of 100 crop circles that were found in the Netherlands in 1996, around 80 had these unexplained physical properties. The question why almost all of them appear in the summer is as yet unexplained. Earlier research done in the USA by Dr. Levengood describing these physical anomalies in crop circles has been published in the scientific magazine Physiologia Plantorum. So, it's not just bunk, Ben, although the person with whom you discussed this was apparently not aware of this. By the way, it is not just circles in crops anymore. The designs now comprise elaborate patterns of circles, triangles and squares and the latest fashion in England seems to be huge fractal-like structures. And they are not just found in crop anymore, but also on bare soil, stone and ice. So hereby I submit a new term: Anomalous Geometrical Patterns (AGPs). Hope it sticks. How far I go in believing? Frankly, Ben, I don't believe anything. I know there is physical evidence for UFOs, AGPs, animal mutilations and alien abductions. People who are militant in their beliefs should be flatly ignored and are not worthy of anyone's time. This goes for people who believe that UFOs and crop circles are signs of extraterrestrial life without backing this up with evidence and for those who believe that this cannot be, so it isn't. I don't mind answering your letters because you simply speak your mind with the obvious intention of getting some answers. Furthermore, you treat me with respect. I do the same with you and, frankly, I wish there were more skeptics like you. Thank you for your letter and for the occasion to give my opinion about this. ************************************************************** You can use UFO News International articles ************************************************************** Make a selection from this issue for your web site. Redistribute articles in your owns newsletter or Bulletin Board System. - 18 of 20 - - UFO News International 28 - Please give credit to UFO News International and, if relevant, to the original source. ************************************************************** Editor's notes: UFO News International welcomes: . your own UFO report . abduction experience . analysis or commentary Anonimity will be provided if needed. UFO News International also welcomes: . congress announcements . congress reports . notification of a change in your web site . information about your UFO organization All contributions to this newsletter must be in English. Grammar and spelling need not be perfect. In case of a change in your e-mail address, please notify me in advance, so that you can continue to receive UFOPals. If you haven't received this newsletter for more than three weeks, something must have gone wrong, so please contact me. Readers are encouraged to invite their friends, acquaintances and colleagues to subscribe to this newsletter. The text of this newsletter can be transferred to your preferred word processor. First take care that this newsletter and your wordprocessor are both activated under a Windows operating system. Then select the text of the newsletter with the computer mouse, click on the copy command (Ctrl-C), change to your word processor and paste the text by clicking the Paste icon (suitca- se) into your word processor document. ______ /\ /\ \_\ /_/ \ " / \ _ / \ / ************************************************************** Date: September 21, 1997 Editor: Henny van der Pluijm Correspondents: Barry Chamish (Israel) Mike Stahl (Australia) Also by Henny van der Pluijm: UFO FAQ: http://www.ufoic.com/faq UFOIC http://www.ufoic.com hosts the UNI archive: - 19 of 20 - - UFO News International 28 - http://www.ufoic.com/faq/ufopals Personal: http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp E-mail: hvdp@worldonline.nl Direct subscribers: 179 Copyright agreements: Project Watchfire BBS. NUN BBS Network, The Netherlands. Over 100 subscribers. UFO Online BBS - PDX, Portland, Oregon, USA. 75 subscribers. ______________________________________________________________ (C) Henny van der Pluijm, 1997. ______________________________________________________________ =FF - 20 of 20 - - UFO News International 28 - __________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Technology Pages http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp \______________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: More Military Jet Crashes From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 19:08:49 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:31:01 -0400 Subject: Re: More Military Jet Crashes > Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 18:13:49 +0100 > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: More Military Jet Crashes > Two years ago the same thing happened here in Canada on the Labour Day > weekend. A British Nimrod crashed into Lake Ontario during an airshow. > Six people were klled when their light twin went into the mountains in > British Columbia, a Huey went into the woods near Cold Lake, Alberta and > a Lake 4A Anphibian went into the trees at my Fly-In in Nova Scotia, 2 > killed and one seriously injured. > At the same time 4 women were killed when their Cessna crashed on > takeoff at Portland, Maine and several more were killed in another light > twin in Michigan and if memory serves, another light twin crashed near > L.A. Bad, bad weekend. > These things seem to happen in clumps. Hello Don, Clumping is a part of chance occurences. Going back to the scenario I mentioned earlier, if on any one day the odds of a U.S. military air crash is 0.1, then the odds of 3 crashes on consecutive days is 1/100. Though that is slim, you can see that in a year of 365 days you could well expect a clumping like that. But 6 in a row or in 7 days does get highly improbable due to chance, starting with the 0.1 odds for any given day, considering it wasn't any one type of airplane that went down. > I don't think any of these recent military crashes have a UFO connection > Jim but that's not to say they don't. But the last you mentioned jarred > my memory. It was an A-10 Thunderbold [dubbed a "Warthog" by their > pilots] and as you mentioned they found the A-10 but not the pilot, and > I'm not sure about the bombs it was carrying. Anybody out there got any > more news on this one? What has made me rather suspicious of that event, ever since the one A-10 disappeared without the other two knowing about it at the time, are: a) An A.F. general announced they had spotted some bits of scattered wreckage on a steep snow-covered hillside in the S.W. Colorado mountains, and he was 99.9% sure (or some such figure) it was the missing plane. How could he be so sure? If he was so sure, why didn't they let the press have photos of the crash scene to release to the public so that one could see if much of the wreckage showed that would allow any identification? There were no photos of it in any newspaper I had access to at the time. Yet on the day they said they discovered the wreckage, the weather had reportedly cleared and photos could easily have been taken. The 99.9% certainty figure could well have been disinformation let out at the earliest possible time so as to squelch any UFO conspiratorial theories. The idea, as usual, would have been to make any investigators of the UFO angle appear to be way out on the fringe, looking at a possibility too remote for a logical person to consider. b) A week or few later the U.S.A.F. announced that body parts had been found. Again, no photos of any of the search area were released to my knowledge to support the alleged search effort, or that would show how far from the alleged wreckage the body parts were found. But after that an announcement did come out that they were going to check the DNA from the body parts to see if it was that of the missing pilot, Mr. Button. Doesn't that strike you as being odd? They had claimed to have the wreckage of the missing plane for sure, and they knew for sure which pilot had been in it, so why then do a DNA test? And assuming they could have gotten smidgeons of his DNA from around his living quarters to test against, I never heard any news report of how the check came out, or the family's reaction to it all, etc. Although absence of evidence is not...., nevertheless, one does get suspicious after a certain point is reached, if one knows the UFO phenomenon, and its coverup, is real. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:46:36 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:48:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/21/97 9:09 PM: > From: nick@emailme.at.address.below (Nick Humphries) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions > Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 16:35:53 GMT > Well, not directly to abductees, but certainly to abductee interviewers. > Loftus showed how she induced FMS by making a suggestion of something that > happened to a test subject that was definitely false and asking the subject > if > they remembered it. The subject usually said no. Asked the same thing two > weeks later, the subject magically remembered something which didn't happen. I'd also call your attention to the following paper which addresses similar concerns regarding interviewing child witnesses to criminal events: http://truth.idbsu.edu/jcaawp/9701/9701.html This paper not only touches on the issue of suggestibility in child witnesses, but also contains some general observations concerning suggestibility that are of value in the context of interviewing UFO witnesses. > The initial interview between investigator and abductee is crucial - to > avoid > ANY possibility of FMS, investigators should stick to asking questions and > definitely not make any "helpful suggestions". I know that ideally this is > always the case, but this ain't an ideal world. I would prefer it if > investigators just gave a form to an abductee to fill in to describe their > experience in minute detail before discussing the case. Any new data which > arises after the form has been filled in should be treated as suspect since > the possibility of suggestions from the investigator cannot be ruled out. This is an excellent suggestion. ------ Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman - Original digital art, writing, and UFO research - Author of SF novels available at... http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront ------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: More Military Jet Crashes From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 17:01:55 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:52:28 -0400 Subject: Re: More Military Jet Crashes >From: CFQ2@aol.com [Charles Quinn] >Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 18:44:35 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: More Military Jet Crashes >>To:UFO updates-Toronto<updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Jim Deardorff<deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >>date: Saturday 20 Sept. 1997 08:30:19 >>Subject: More Military Jet Crashes ><snip> >>I am one who keeps the possibility in mind that the crashes >>were caused by purposeful UFO interventions, perhaps because >>our government is not cooperating with some sort of UFO >>negotiations in which they have engaged... >I totally agree !! The B-1B bomber attack plane that went down in >Montana had a Lt. Col. at the controls, with 2 majors and a captain >on board. The plane is a 200 million dollar assault vehicle. Why such >brass on board, literally the cream of the crop? What were they in >pursuit of? Dick Wesnick in a story to the New York Times( he is >the editor of the Billings Montana gazette) flew over the crash site >within one hour and saw a huge mile long trench where the craft hit >the ground but not a single solitary piece of the plane---not a tail- >not a piece of the fuselage- not a wing- not a human body. WOW!!!!! >Two F-15 fighter jets collide in mid-air (that's the cover story) off the >coast of Atlantic City. how is this possible? Earlier in the week a C-141 >cargo plane (U.S. flag) allegedly hits a German plane off the coast of >Africa 325 miles west of Angola. How possible in broad daylight??? >the German plane is the Russian Made TUPOLEV, fashioned during >the cold war by east germany as a spy plane with ultra-secret and >very sophisticated aerial reconnaisance equipment on it. The plane was >carrying German marines on board. How does such a plane crash into >a huge cargo plane in broad daylite in the South Atlantic. Deardorff is >right. Colonel Corso in his book THE DAY AFTER ROSWELL alluded >to the fact that we have been attacking UFOs since 1974 when we shot >one donwn in Ramstein Germany. This is mighty "heady" stuff. >I believe that aliens are now dumping military aircraft out of our skies >as some kind of retaliation. >CFQ2@aol.com=Charlie Quinn Forgive me for not cutting the message above, but I felt I needed to leave it intact. When I saw the film of the FY117 at the Maryland Air Show go down, it appeared to me that something from above the plane hit the aircraft, knocking of the back section and causing the plain to nose up and twist out of control. I had the impression that it could have been struck by a "beam weapon," of some type. Take a good look at that footage, if you have it and see what you think. A beam weapon wouldn't be seen by the public in the daylight. Only if there was fog or thick clouds near the plane, could it be seen. What do you think? REgards, Mike C. Search for other documents from or mentioning: mchristo | cfq2 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 UFO Sighting Trenton, Ontario, Canada From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 03:39:08 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 02:03:31 -0400 Subject: UFO Sighting Trenton, Ontario, Canada Hello Errol and List, I thought this was important enough to warrent an immediate posting so as to alert local investigators. It looks like a solid hit. The Weather Channel, of all places, reported moments ago [approx. 2:00 AM Atantic Daylight Time] that an object as large as the moon, but red in colour has been reported in the Trenton area of Ontario, Canada. Personnel at CAF Trenton were alerted and one of the personnel contacted stated that he had seen the object as well. Same at local police station who also stated that one of their own had witnessed the object. Other information sketchy. Red object apparently moved across the sky moving erratically from side to side. Many witnesses reported to local police and CAF Trenton. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Paper on Gulf Breez From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:39:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 09:29:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breez > From: galevy@pipeline.com [Gary Alevy] > Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 10:08:32 -0400 > To: UFO UpDate <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Paper on Gulf Breeze > > From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:12:14 -0500 > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Paper on Gulf Breeze. > > The information I have regarding Ed Walters and his hoaxed photos > > was presented to Bruce Maccabee and Don Ware in 1992 and most > > recently Walt Andrus and Dennis Stacy. It has been missed...ignored > > ...because it is proof of the hoax and it is embarrassing. > > In fairness, when I presented this to Andrus eight months ago, I > > told him that I was giving him the opportunity to bring this forward > > himself, especially since he made the statement in the MUFON Journal > > that if any new evidence surfaced that they would be the first to > > print it. I also told him that if he ignored me I would make this > > info very public. So I am not doing anything behind anyone's back. [snipped] > > Yes, the case is ten years old, but truth is timeless. > Barbara, > Why don't you post your paper to this list. [snipped] > Certainly Errol is very accomodating of a wide range > of view points on UFO Update and has posted articles of substantial > size. > Gary Gary: I would be very happy to post it here. All I need is the ok from Errol. BB
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:32:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 09:25:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze > From: DONFEII@aol.com [Don Ecker] > Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 15:39:22 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze > To All; > Approx. one week ago I sent private email > to Ms. Barbara Becker with a request to look > at the information she stated she had, for a possible > story to be run in UFO Magazine. As of this days > date, 09/20/97, I have not had any word from Ms. > Becker, nor did she acknowledge my email to > her. Your E-mail is dated WED.17, SEPT. 17:20:16-0400 EDT. Your little note is SAT. 20 SEPT. 1997. 15:39:22-0400 EDT Now maybe I'm just not as smart as you but that looks like THREE DAYS not a week. As for not responding to you, I DO NOT OWE YOU ANY KIND OF EXPLANATION. However, I was simply NOT in town until this evening. I actually have a life outside of UFOs. > At this point, one begins to wonder if her "proof" > would bear the scrutiny of a non-biased reviewer. You have a long way to go to be non-biased. BTW: Maybe you should read the E-mail I sent Vicki on May 11, 1997 regarding this issue. I came to you FIRST. Don't you two talk to each other? Barbara Becker
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:39:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 10:06:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze > From: galevy@pipeline.com [Gary Alevy] > Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 10:08:32 -0400 > To: UFO UpDate <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Paper on Gulf Breeze > > From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:12:14 -0500 > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Paper on Gulf Breeze. > > The information I have regarding Ed Walters and his hoaxed photos > > was presented to Bruce Maccabee and Don Ware in 1992 and most > > recently Walt Andrus and Dennis Stacy. It has been missed...ignored > > ...because it is proof of the hoax and it is embarrassing. [snipped] > Barbara, > Why don't you post your paper to this list. [snipped] > Certainly Errol is very accomodating of a wide range > of view points on UFO Update and has posted articles of substantial > size. > Gary: > I would be very happy to post it here. All I need is the ok from > Errol. > BB I too would like to see the 'proof of the hoax' - by all means post. ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Assertions by ACC about alien computers From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 02:00:55 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 10:28:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Assertions by ACC about alien computers "The UNIX operating system, even the Bell Labs forerunners of the Digital Equipment Corporation PDP-1 (The 1B), the PDP-11 and the Motorola M-6800 (The 2B), the Motorola M-68000 (The 3B), the RISC-SPARC (The 4B) and variations, may all have been caseworks developed from knowledge reverse engineered out of an alien computer so complex that only parts of it are fully understood today. " This is clearly ridiculous. The history of the Unix operating system is well known, and it embodies a simplification of the earlier Multics operating system. There is nothing particularly alien about it, except to DOS addicts or people who think a hex keypad is a user interface. (no flame wars please, it's just a joke!) RISC chips actually emerged from controversies in code generation techniques among compiler designers, who claimed that they could generate better code with simpler instruction sets and lots of registers. This turned out to be a mixed blessing, since, while the technique scales well, the object code produced by RISC-oriented compilers is clearly larger, and thus takes longer to load, and, of course, there are more instructions to process. There is no relationship between the 6800/68000 and the SPARC, except maybe a flat address space. Motorola fans will note that their favorite chip is clearly alien, and, thus, more advanced (Mac and Amiga owners, rejoice!), while the Intel chips are more crude, human devices... or are they really an attempt by aliens to sabotage the lives of compiler writers and assembly language programmers... (segmented memory, yechh) :-) At any rate, if Shulman is knowledgeable about computers, why does he take this consultant seriously? ------ Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman - Original digital art, writing, and UFO research - Author of SF novels available at... http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront ------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: More Military Jet Crashes From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 08:32:05 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 10:51:47 -0400 Subject: Re: More Military Jet Crashes >>From: CFQ2@aol.com [Charles Quinn] >>Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 18:44:35 -0400 (EDT) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: More Military Jet Crashes >>>I am one who keeps the possibility in mind that the crashes >>>were caused by purposeful UFO interventions, perhaps because >>>our government is not cooperating with some sort of UFO >>>negotiations in which they have engaged... >>I totally agree !! The B-1B bomber attack plane that went down in >>Montana had a Lt. Col. at the controls, with 2 majors and a captain >>on board. The plane is a 200 million dollar assault vehicle. Why such >>brass on board, literally the cream of the crop? What were they in >>pursuit of? Dick Wesnick in a story to the New York Times (he is >>the editor of the Billings Montana gazette) flew over the crash site >>within one hour and saw a huge mile long trench where the craft hit >>the ground but not a single solitary piece of the plane---not a tail- >>not a piece of the fuselage- not a wing- not a human body. WOW!!!!! >>Two F-15 fighter jets collide in mid-air (that's the cover story) off the >>coast of Atlantic City. how is this possible? >>Earlier in the week a C-141 >>cargo plane (U.S. flag) allegedly hits a German plane off the coast of >>Africa 325 miles west of Angola. How possible in broad daylight??? >>the German plane is the Russian Made TUPOLEV, fashioned during >>the cold war by east germany as a spy plane with ultra-secret and >>very sophisticated aerial reconnaisance equipment on it. The plane was >>carrying German marines on board. How does such a plane crash into >>a huge cargo plane in broad daylite in the South Atlantic. The Tupolev had been refitted during the cold war to serve as East German leader Erich Honecker's private jet plane. The C-141 Starlifter had not yet been equipped with Traffic Alert and Collision Avoidance System (TACAS), as are almost all other US Air Force planes. Air Traffic Control over Africa is notoriously bad and the continent has a higher than average percentage of aircraft crashes in relation to the number of flights. In addition, the flight plan of the German plane had not been received by South African air controllers. So, boom they went. However, I think it's odd that so many planes crash in such a short period of time. On Sunday a Lockheed Hercules made a crash landing that caused several people to be wounded. This was the 7th incident in a week. If there is a prosaic explanation, it's probably that many US Air Force personnel are leaving for higher paid jobs in the civilian sector as has been reported in the last months. This way, the USAF has been losing experienced people. On the other hand, perhaps it's an extraterrestrial attack vessel racing from one end of the earth to the other to bring down American warplanes. It must have cloaked itself to prevent being detected. After all, the truth is out there... __________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Technology Pages http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp \______________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 01:47:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 10:22:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions >From: nick@emailme.at.address.below (Nick Humphries) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions >Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 16:35:53 GMT >>Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 01:21:16 -0500 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions >>A 'quicky' on Loftus. Those familiar with her methods will know what I'm >>talking about here. She conducts her research and bases her findings on >>false memory by taking impressionable teenagers and trying to convince them >>that something which never happened to them,...did happen. After (several) >>of these intentional 'memory confusion' sessions the kids become a little >>fuzzy about certain details and will incorporate some of Loftus's false >>implanted memories in their retelling of whatever the particular childhood >>memory was that was chosen as Loftus's target experience. Ergo, false >>memory is created. It really doesn't even answer how 'false memories' can >>become a part of someone's recollections in real life, under actual life >>conditions. It's all "clinical theoretical crap' created artificially in a >>lab. She has NEVER WORKED WITH ACTUAL PATIENTS! Do you know that? IMHO It's >>all stuff that's carried out in a lab under artificial conditions in order >>to reinforce her theories and insure next years grants. Hi ya Nick, hi All, Nick responds, >Would patients be any use to her research - patients would be an "end >product". Loftus wouldn't be able to deduce the cause of any possible >FMS >from patients alone. Having read her paper, I came to the >conclusion that >she's trying to discover the CAUSE of FMS, and the >only way to go about >it is to try and CREATE it. Nick, "creating it" and "proving that it actually exists" are two different things. If her "theory" doesn't have any practical applications for "patients" who are suffering from her alleged syndrome then why bother? OK, so Loftus has 'proved' that she can create false memories in barely post pubescent college students, what does that have to do with the price of butter or the consciously recalled abduction memories reported by so many? I had suggested in another thread on this same topic that I'd love to see how far Loftus would get in trying to implant a false memory into some of our older, more life experienced, and just downright salty New Yorkers. I can hear it now,... Lotus: (Attempt at implantation of false memory) New Yorker:"Get the shit out of yer ears lady I didn't say *** I said, *** now pay attention I'm tellin ya how it happened! <EG> Loftus first has to prove that "false memory syndrome" exists at all as far as I'm concerned. The discovery of new 'syndromes' has become a 'syndrome' in recent times and I question the validity of it all. Also, the reason why working with 'live patients' is important is because she could use and present "real" manifestations, (actual cases) which demonstrate her point, and demonstrate its applicability in real life situations. Which may _incidentally_ actually help someone who may be suffering from her 'proposed' condition. (False memory) The point that Loftus and many others are missing is, we are not the ones that separate our (conscious) abduction related memories from any of our other consciously recalled events. "They" (Loftus and others) are the ones who claim that our abduction related (conscious) recollections _must be_ 'something else.' They, are the ones that make the distinction (artificial separation) and it is on them (not us) to prove that there _is_ a difference between a consciously recalled abduction event and my conscious recollection of the family picnic I attended last month. Understand? A "consciously recalled" event is a consciously recalled event. She and others are the ones that segregate our abduction stuff. It's all just, 'stuff I remember' to me, and to many other abductees. What I remember clearly, I remember clearly. I'm not suffering from (anything) that would impede my ability interpret real from fantasy. Not only would she have a long way to go to convince me that my memories are false, she'd have to show me how they got that way. Before five years ago I never talked about UFO's or aliens, never read any books, or carried on any conversations on the subject, much less had 'false memories' about it implanted into my mind from any source. >>It's bullshit and has absolutely nothing to do with abduction or abductees. > >Well, not directly to abductees, but certainly to abductee >>interviewers.Loftus showed how she induced FMS by making a suggestion >of >something that happened to a test subject that was definitely >false and >asking the subject if they remembered it. The subject >usually said no. >Asked the same thing two weeks later, the subject >magically remembered >something which didn't happen. I'm more than a little tired of people implying that researchers (Budd Hopkins in my case) have somehow "programmed" or "suggested" some or all of the material _THAT WE BRING TO THEM! It's not only an insult to us, (implying that we are so malleable and suggestible that we would automatically 'parrot' anything that someone else would suggest to us) but an insult to all abduction researchers. I cannot speak for anyone else but Budd has NEVER led or suggested anything to me in any way in any of our numerous interactions over the last five years. And, I'm not a 'tabla raza' (blank slate) waiting for someone to fill my empty head, so I strongly (personally) resent the implications of your statements. >Well, FMS is still a relatively new phenomena, but shouldn't be >dismissed >out of hand for the time being. I agree Nick. I just don't think that Loftus is pursuing it in any "practical" way. We need examples of false memory in actual cases involving real human beings. Then , _maybe_ she can make a case for its applicability to abduction and not just to "programmed" college kids who may be afraid to give teacher a "wrong" response for fear of a failing grade. <G> John Velez, Abductee Union Rep. John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:28:47 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:28:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 02:49:35 -0500 To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings >From: "Clark Hathaway & Julianne Presson" <earthwrk@doitnow.com> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings >Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 20:11:49 -0700 > >>Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 05:22:59 -0700 >>From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings > >>> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 13:25:54 -0500 >>> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>> From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's >sightings > >>John Velez is picked-up uttering: > >>> Archives, dusty files, and dusty cases are the passtimes >>> of dusty old men who can no longer get their flattened >>> asses out of an armchair, and rightfully so. > >>HELP! I seem to be stuck and I can't get up! > >You are??????????????? Seems to me you were walking >around fine when left Sacto????????????????????????? > >[SNIP] > >>> If you want to chase paper then fine, chase paper. >>> But, if you want to see, photograph or study the real >>> thing live, in broad daylight, over one of the most >>> densely populated urban areas on the planet,...we got >>> yer UFOs right heah! Hi Ed, Julianne, All, Ed Stewart responds to my last remark, >>And so does every other urban area in the world where all it takes >>is >>unresolved blotches and pinpoints on film for a honker to try to >>excite >>a crowd and draw attention. I am re-posting a single frame capture from the videotape that I got. What I have here is a tad more than a "pinpoint" or mere "blotch." Until you have conducted an analysis that proves that the image I have submitted is a 'blotch' or a trick, or any other video artifact you're just pissing in the wind and expressing a 'personal oppinion.' You should preface your remarks that way. Your 'oppinion' which isn't based on any personal analysis of the image that I submitted adds absolutely nothing of value or anything 'substantial' or helpful for that matter. You can't dismiss it with words Ed, you'll have to do a little better than that or find something else to vent your vinegar on. I'm trying to get informed responses that are _based on actual analysis_ of my pictures, when I want your "oppinion" I'll ask you for it. And, don't hold yer breath waitin! <G> >I think we know some of them don't we???? ;-) Do you have any analysis results to contribute Julianne or simply grabbing an opportunity to feel superior? >>So let's not waste time attempting to insert some discipine, >>academia >>and rigorous standards of evidence to archives, dusty >>files, and old >>cases. No, we'll just spout or personal oppinions in such a way as to make them sound like they actually have substance. I posted a picture of something that flew overhead in the sky Ed. Analyse it and post your results or like I said, go tell it to Skippy. >>There is no need to elevate Ufology to a higher level. After all, >>we have plenty of honkers out there to keep everybody entertained, >>and >>I can't semm to be able to get up. May not be the mass or the age of your ass,... but the 'lead content' or maybe it's all those empty but very 'weighty' oppinions! <G>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality From: Neil Morris <Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:56:09 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:17:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality > Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 22:29:31 -0400 > From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Adding to the documentary evidence detailed by George Fergus, the > following is taken from "Out of the Crystal Maze", edited by Lillian > Hoddeson, Ernest Braun, Jurgen Teichmann and Spencer Weart. > The editors are eminent physicists, who specialise in the history of > the science. [big snip] > In summary, as previously asserted, the development of the transistor > has a clear genesis and provenance and there was nothing akin to a > "leap in technology". > Any actual evidence to the contrary, with a similar provenance, would > always be of course be of interest. > James > E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com Hi James and All. I've followed this thread with some interest being involved with electronics and computing in my day-job and my interest in electronics going back to the 60's and home brew radio. It seems to me there have been a "number" of leaps of technology in the history of semiconductors but the initial one other than the invention of the transistor was the convertion of that "point contact" lab working model into the mass produced "fused junction" device, ie the doped P or N materials fused together to produce a robust component, I find it odd that the germainium point contact diode had been about for some time yet this technique hadn't seemed to have been used, they were still playing about with point contact "cats whiskers". The other leap which came later was the introduction of the "planer" contruction technique where the P and N type materials were layed down in layers one atop the other in a diffusion process. This allowed for miniturisation and eventually integrated circuits and todays computer revolution. This is all gut feeling but looking back over the years and even to my fathers interest in the same subject in the 50's I always got the impression that the transistor was a solution ahead of it's time, it felt that the rest of electronics technology needed the remains of the 40's and most if not all of the 50's to catch up, thats 12 years. A thought to conclude with, the guys at Bell labs might have had a good idea as to how to build a "mouse trap" and physics being physics they most likly did, but if you you get your hands on someone else's working mouse trap, it sure helps your design time. Best Regards Neil. -- * * * * * * * * Neil Morris. /101101101 Virtual Bumper Stickers Inc 10110101010\ Dept of Physics. 1 1 Univ of Manchester 0 0 Schuster Labs. 1 Computer Programmers DO IT with BITS of BYTES 1 Brunswick St. 0 0 Manchester. 1 1 UK. \0101010110010110110010110101101011011110101011010/ G8KOQ E-mail: neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk Roswell and Alien Autopsy Archive-> http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/ Dave Willetts Home Page-> http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/dave_willetts/ * * * * * * * *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 John S.Carpenter to discuss Abductions From: "Yvonne Hedenland" <VONNI_H@classic.msn.com> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 97 12:18:26 UT Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:20:21 -0400 Subject: John S.Carpenter to discuss Abductions On Tuesday, September 23rd, at 6pm, PT, Project: watchfire and UFO Forum will host a live chat with John S. Carpenter, Psychiatric hypnotherapist/Abduction Researcher and National Director of Abduction Research for MUFON, The chat is accessible through http://watchfire.msn.com.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 EWAR: Electronic Warfare List From: Wes Thomas <west@sonic.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:38:57 +0900 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:12:45 -0400 Subject: EWAR: Electronic Warfare List The struggle for domination of the planet has quietly shifted to electronic and biological warfare. It's time to analyze what's going on and cut through the disinformation and mind games. EWAR: Electronic Warfare is a new list intended for serious investigators of electronic warfare technologies, including ASATs (antisatellite weapons), HAARP, EMP, Star Wars, holographic and VR realities, infowar, magnetic pole shift, anomalous aerial phenomena, stealth vehicles, surveillance, mind control, nonlethal weapons, and other things that go "bzzzzz" in the night. To subscribe: send a message to majordomo@sonic.net with the following text: subscribe EWAR-L. EWAR Web site: http://www.sonic.net/~west/ewar/ewar.htm Subscription information on related lists: BIOWAR-L: Biowar/Bioterrorism/Toxins. To subscribe: send a message to majordomo@sonic.net with the following text: subscribe BIOWAR-L. List archive: <http://www.sonic.net/~west/digest.htm>. BIOWAR Web site: <http://www.sonic.net/~west/biowar.htm>. MINDCONTROL-L: Mind Control and Psyops Mailing List: To subscribe: send a message to majordomo@sonic.net with the following text: subscribe MINDCONTROL-L. Archive: <http://www.sonic.net/~west/mindcont.htm>. Note: all three lists are intended for information exchange among serious researchers and investigators and are *not* casual chat and opinion forums. Posts must be documented where possible. Before posting, please read the list rules included with the welcome message. -Wes Thomas
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Ed Dames on the Phoenix 'Lights' From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 09:41:22 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:33:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Ed Dames on the Phoenix 'Lights' > From: Michael Curta <UFOMedic@net1comm.com> > To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Ed Dames on the Phoenix 'Lights' > Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 16:26:58 -0600 > >From: William.Hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com > >Date: Friday, 19 September 1997 7:37am MT > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Ed Dames on the Phoenix Lights > >ON ED DAMES ON THE PHOENIX LIGHTS > >Art Bell again hosted Ed Dames on Thursday evening. > >This time Ed reveals an explanation for the Phoenix > >Lights gleaned through the medium of "technical > >remote viewing". > >Ed gets my award for the "silliest" explanation I > >have heard to date. If his report on the pathogens > >released upon our poor unsuspecting world had this > >same level of credibility, then I would tell all of > >you to relax. Do not take such entertainment seriously. > I agree with you. His explanation is the silliest damn thing I have > heard in a long time. He has never been right on anything he has done > with his TRV. Every time Art Bell tries to pin him down on > something, he always says he need to do more work on it. You and > some of the other old timers like myself, might remember Ed from the > late 80's or early 90's when he posted his TRV findings to MUFONet > and FIDOnet. He stated that there would be a mass UFO landing in the > Four Corners area and the aliens would step off with hundreds of > hybrid babies and ask us for help in caring for them. He even gave > the exact date it would happen. If I remember right it was to happen > in late August like the 26th or 29th. but I don't remember the year. > Well we all know that did not happen. We never heard for him > after that until a year or two ago when Art found him. Hello Bill & Michael, I similarly agree on this. As far as I can tell, Ed Dames is in the same mold as Courtney Brown, and very likely a disinformation specialist, IMO. One thing that quickly turned me off of Ed Dames was his insistence, on Art Bell's show, that RV is a scientific topic. It seemed to me like he would spend more time talking about the scientific nature of his RV research than on specific results that might be scientifically attested. Jim Deardorff Search for other documents from or mentioning: deardorj | ufomedic |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 1926 Utah Aircraft Encounter From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 09:10:52 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:33:40 -0400 Subject: 1926 Utah Aircraft Encounter Very few early aircraft/UFO encounters are known. I listed six incidents in "Aircraft/UFO Encounters Before 1942" http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/sep/m05-021.shtml In addition the case appears to be an early electromagnetic effects case. This "new" account was originally posted on the Fido UFO net. The posting does give a reference which can be checked. Does anyone have access to old "Sky Trails" magazines? (Thanks to John Stepkowski for locating this interesting account.) ============================================================= >From: Wayne Thompson Submitted: 12 Feb94 Fido UFO Here is another short one that is handy... I can give you one U.S. account right now, as I have it laying here beside me. In late September, 1926 (the exact date so far is unavailable), at 2300 hrs. an Air-Mail pilot named Colin Murphy was repeatedly "buzzed" by a huge glowing object an hour after take-off from Salt Lake City. The pilot described the object as a cylinder without any wings or propeller that he could see, and at least three times the length of his DH-4 aircraft (this would make the object at least 90 feet long), and 8 to 10 feet in diameter. Murphy also stated that every time the object approached closer than fifty-yards to his aircraft, the engine would begin to sputter and misfire. He was finally forced to land in a sheep pasture. Upon landing, the object "took off like a shot out of a gun" disappearing to the south in a "few seconds". I am curious about newspaper reports in the Salt Lake area. If anyone living there can check out old papers for the last half of September, 1926 and post anything they find, it would help to pin down the exact date. This account is taken from a journal kept by Richard West. Portions of it were serialized in "Sky Trails" magazine (a small "general aviation" magazine). The above account comes from the June, 1933 Issue. ============================================================= Jan Aldrich Project 1947 http://www.iufog.org/project1947/ -------------------- Index: Physical Effects of UFOs Index: Phantom Airships Index: UFO Sightings by Pilots
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:33:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:10:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze > Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 06:12:15 -0400 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> > Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze [was: MUFON Journal Muses] > >From: nick@emailme.at.address.below (Nick Humphries) > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze > >Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:29:08 GMT > >>Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:42:24 +1200 > >>From: Murray Bott <murrayb@kiwi.gen.nz> > >>To: updates@globalserve.net > >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Paper on Gulf Breeze > >>Greetings Barbara > >>Could I ask you a big favour. > >>Would it be possible to send me a copy of the Paper on the Gulf Breeze Case > >>which you mention was given to Walt Andrus (and others) > >>Certainly an electronic version will be welcome (as a hard copy would also) > >If the paper isn't going to be published in a journal, perhaps it could be > >posted here? > I would add that if you only have a "hard copy" of the document, I would be > willing to scan it and prepare it for posting (as long as it's typed, and > not hand written). > The discussion is starting to discuss the personalities, since we don't > have the article to use as a basis to discuss the sighting. We can let it > move in that direction, but it won't prove much in the long run. > Since the article was submitted to the MUFON Journal, I would suspect that > the Editor, Dennis Stacy, got a chance to read it. I'm curious as to his > comments on it, if he would care to share them. Dennis? List: Sorry if I did not make myself clear. Part of the information I will be posting was originally published in ORBITER Magazine. (a sort of small private publication.) This was in 1992. Maccabee and Ware knew of this and ignored it. I can understand why...because it really isnt in their fields. Last year Hilary Evans asked my to write an article on GB for the book he and Stacy just released. It was at that time that Stacy became aware of my claims. Nothing was submitted to Stacy for the Journal. (My paper was cut from the book.) Two months later I sent all of the information to Walt Andrus with the hope that he would do the ethical thing and at least consider the information. I guess I really didnt expect him to respond. In May 1997 I contacted Vicki Cooper and sent her a package of info. She showed mild interest but it wasnt a priority. Thats sort of the progression. I hope this clarifies things. BB Search for other documents from or mentioning: c549597 | steve | nick |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: UFO sighting with John Velez From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:16:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:16:43 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:53:40 -0500 To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez >Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 16:50:44 +0100 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> >> Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez >> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:28:08 -0700 >> > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/19/97 >> > 10:19 PM: >> > Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 04:09:16 -0500 >> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez >> > Hi Mark, >> > You respond to Gregs account, >> > >Again, possibly a sign of an object at the extreme limits of >> > >visibility, possibly reflecting sun for a period, and then >> > >banking or otherwise redirecting the reflection elsewhere. >> > Nope. Wasn't hard to see at all. It was about the same apparent size >> > and brightness as Jupiter when seen in the night sky. >snipped for brevity....... DON WRITES, >Hello John, Mark, EBK and list, (SNIP) >Perhaps John, you could give us an idea of how large a portion of the >sky is visible to you and your field of view. I'll did better Don, I've drawn you a picture! <G> BTW, thank you for your posts and involvement, it is greatly appreciated. >So again I would ask John is/was your view very restricted, or somewhat >restricted vertically, or do you have a more expansive field of view? Well, as you can see from the illustration what I have is a swath of sky directly overhead and then a tree blocks me to the west, and the building itself from the east. The house is only 30' to 35' tall and the tree in the back is only slightly taller, so I do have some (although very restricted) lateral view. Hope this helps Don. I can assure you (and backing it up with decades of observational experience) that what Greg and I observed WAS NOT AN AIRPLANE. I've
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:31:59 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:40:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze >From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] >Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:32:17 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze >> From: DONFEII@aol.com [Don Ecker] >> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 15:39:22 -0400 (EDT) >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze >> To All; >> Approx. one week ago I sent private email >> to Ms. Barbara Becker with a request to look >> at the information she stated she had, for a possible >> story to be run in UFO Magazine. As of this days >> date, 09/20/97, I have not had any word from Ms. >> Becker, nor did she acknowledge my email to >> her. >Your E-mail is dated WED.17, SEPT. 17:20:16-0400 EDT. >Your little note is SAT. 20 SEPT. 1997. 15:39:22-0400 EDT >Now maybe I'm just not as smart as you but that looks like THREE DAYS not >a week. As for not responding to you, I DO NOT OWE YOU ANY KIND OF >EXPLANATION. However, I was simply NOT in town until this evening. >I actually have a life outside of UFOs. >> At this point, one begins to wonder if her "proof" >> would bear the scrutiny of a non-biased reviewer. >You have a long way to go to be non-biased. >BTW: Maybe you should read the E-mail I sent Vicki on May 11, 1997 >regarding this issue. I came to you FIRST. Don't you two talk to each >other? >Barbara Becker Errol- This silly tangent has probably gone on long enough. The discussion is now becoming somewhat personal, and it isn't getting anywhere. Unless the next post actually provides the text of this alleged "article", or a synopsis of the evidence that is being alluded to, I think we should all go on to something more productive. Some sweeping generalizations are being made here that tend to tell me more about the person making the generalizations than those they purport to criticize. Steven Kaeser Search for other documents from or mentioning: steve | c549597 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze From: DONFEII@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:33:20 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:44:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze In a message dated 97-09-22 10:17:10 EDT, you write: >> Your E-mail is dated WED.17, SEPT. >>17:20:16-0400 EDT. >>Your little note is SAT. 20 SEPT. 1997. >>15:39:22-0400 EDT >>Now maybe I'm just not as smart as you but that >>looks like THREE DAYS not a week. As for not >>responding to you, I DO NOT OWE YOU ANY KIND OF >> EXPLANATION. However, I was simply NOT in town >>until this evening. I actually have a life outside >>of UFOs. Actually, Ms. Becker is correct, I did not send her the note until 9-17-97. It was not a week, apparently I must have suffered a case of "Time Compression" as described by the U.S. Air Force back in June. As to whether she "has a life outside of UFOs, I have no information. >>At this point, one begins to wonder if her "proof" >> would bear the scrutiny of a non-biased reviewer. >> You have a long way to go to be non-biased. Well, we try to do the best we can and so far our readership seems to agree....we do a Great Job! At anyrate, thanks for noticing. >> BTW: Maybe you should read the E-mail >> I sent Vicki on May 11, 1997 regarding this >> issue. I came to you FIRST. Don't you two talk >> to each other? Well, considering the fact that we are married, and that we publish UFO Magazine, yes probably more so than most. But what I am more interested in is your tone of hostility. Where does that come from? If you have the "goods", and we have never considered the Gulf Breeze case that strong, then by all means lets talk. If not......forget it. Regards; Don Ecker UFO Magazine www.ufomagazine.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: A New Question about Witness Anonymity From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:52:33 PDT Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:49:11 -0400 Subject: Re: A New Question about Witness Anonymity > Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 02:05:04 -0400 > From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] > Subject: Re: A New Question about Witness Anonymity > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > After all, I'd hate to be accused again of being > witty, this new wickedness to lay upon skeptics, and apparently an > essential qualification for being a pest and altogether very horrid > indeed. Sorry, Duke, but anybody who would accuse a skeptic of being "witty" need only read Phil (Ufology Is Tantamount to Communism) Klass, when the just-named thinks he's being so, to be disabused of this strange notion. Unca Phil has all the wit of a particularly unfunny 11-year-old. > Linda who is "surprisingly earthy" may also have feet of > clay. (Or, more practically, perhaps they want to avoid being in > receipt of her intriguing brand of vitriol, which makes it partly a > game of blackmail.) Well, it's your choice. Having been at the receiving end of an "intriguing brand of vitriol" by Linda's clay-footed critics (Torquemada Hansen, et al.), I'll take Linda's any day. Mr. T and his cronies made up all sorts of stuff about me out of thin air; thus I'd be a fool to believe they weren't doing the same about Linda. I am pleased to remain a confirmed agnostic here. Ufology, not to mention the world, is full of claims for which no entirely satisfactory resolution is in sight, and Linda's is one of them. Persons who lose sleep over the Linda case really ought to get a hobby or something. I am speaking generally here, my friend. I have no doubt of the soundness of your own nightly slumber. > >From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] > >Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 09:20:53 PDT > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: The Question of UFO Witness Anonymity > >If we can no longer promise a witness anonymity because > >down the line somebody may decree that he or she doesn't deserve > >it, then let me be the first to urge that no UFO witnesses desiring > >privacy step forward ever again. > --is out of place in this instance. Because this case is a hard case > and it makes bad law. (Jerry's logic is also wonky. At any rate, the > first sentence doesn't make sense. All "we" can do is promise the > anonymity, and hold to it. Who knows what someone else will think or > do in the future? If someone else decides it's not deserved, that's > no reason to break *our* promise, and if we keep it then we take no > blame if someone rootles out and publishes a true name, for whatever > good or bad reason of their own. Incidentally, when & why did Terence > O'Leary voluntarily drop his pseudonym? Did anyone then re-investigate > his part in the Larson case?) Of course the sentence ought to have opened "If we can no longer promise to honor...." Satisfied? Or is your dilemma aptly summed up in the words of our mutual friend M. J. Hurt: Got the blues, can't be satisfied? Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 ACC-Courageous! American Computer PUMPS UP THE From: mailbox@ix.netcom.com [Bob Wolf] Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:40:03 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:31:21 -0400 Subject: ACC-Courageous! American Computer PUMPS UP THE Go look at their site now, if want to find out ACC's motives for making minor updates to their presentation on the web... Click on the small link labeled: ACC CALLS ON JOINT CHIEFS, DOD, ARMY, AIR FORCE: "LETS HAVE A PUBLIC ROSWELL SIT-DOWN !!" on http://www.american-computer.com and then click [>NEWS] next to it... it leads to the following link: http://www.american-computer.com/shadowlake_invitation.htm Their strategy is quite clear -- they want to get to the bottom of this - and they appear willing to risk their military and government contracts, to get an answer - and from what I hear, the government isn't laughing. And ACC isn't kidding. Hmmm... interesting, I didn't think they had the guts. I was told when I called them, that Secretary of Defense William Cohen got the first copy of the communique... Talk about being willing to take a stand... -- Bob Wolf
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 The Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #44 From: Mark Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 00:31:31 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:52:22 -0400 Subject: The Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #44 Welcome to The Crop Circle Connector Mailing List. WHAT`S NEW on the Crop Circle Connector at:- http://alpha.mic.dundee.ac.uk/ft/crop_circles/anasazi/whatsnew.html Updated Monday 22nd September 1997 (Members 2247 on 23-9-97) DELUXE, GLOSSY 1998 CROP CIRCLE CALENDAR NOW AVAILABLE WHILE STOCKS LAST EMAIL TO RESERVE YOUR CALENDAR NOW calendar@marque.demon.co.uk Newbridge, Bath, North Somerset. Formed 11th July 1997. New Ground shots now available Compton Dando, Nr Keynsham, North Somerset. Reported 16th August. New Ground shots now available Buckland, Nr Reigate, Surrey. Reported 27th July. New Ground shots now available Marion, New York State, USA , Reported early August. New aerial shots now available Finmere Airfield, Nr Brackley, Oxfordshire. Reported 9th August. New aerial shots now available The Circular Review (Summer Issue ) OUT NOW All the best Mark and Stuart * The Koch Fractal, Silbury Hill, 1997 :/\: .-- --. . :\ /: . *__/\__/ \__/\__* :\ /: ./__ __\. Mark Fussell: ':\ /:' mailto:mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk .'__/ \__'. \ / Subscribe: :/_ __ __ _\: news:alt.paranormal.crop-circles * :\/: \ / :\/: * . :/ \: . The Crop Circle Connector Web Site at: .-- --. http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/connector.html :\/: *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: American Computer Company PUMPS UP the Volume! From: mailbox@ix.netcom.com [Bob Wolf] Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:36:42 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:28:15 -0400 Subject: Re: American Computer Company PUMPS UP the Volume! Go look at their site now, if want to find out ACC's motives for making minor updates to their presentation on the web... Click on the small link labeled: ACC CALLS ON JOINT CHIEFS, DOD, ARMY, AIR FORCE: "LETS HAVE A PUBLIC ROSWELL SIT-DOWN !!" and then click [>NEWS] next to it... it leads to the following link: http://www.american-computer.com/shadowlake_invitation.htm Their strategy is quite clear -- they want to get to the bottom of this - and they appear willing to risk their military and government contracts, to get an answer - and from what I hear, the government isn't laughing. And ACC isn't kidding. Hmmm... interesting, I didn't think they had the guts. I was told when I called them, that Secretary of Defense William Cohen got the first copy of the communique... Talk about being willing to take a stand... -- Bob Wolf
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: ACC: A New And Very Interesting Twist And From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 00:58:13 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:35:23 -0400 Subject: Re: ACC: A New And Very Interesting Twist And I have been very active in supplying information and notifying the public about the American Computer Company's story on the channeling of technology from the Roswell craft. Cf. my numerous posts to the UFO Updates, UFOR and Skywatch mailing lists, let alone CNI News and Sightings On The Radio. On the homepage of the latter you'll find two features that I have been very instrumental in putting up. See http://www.sightings.com/ufo/roswellmetal.htm http://www.sightings.com/ufo/amcompgift.htm As I was surfing the Internet yesterday, I found a message that former New York Times journalist Ed Wang posted to the message board of Close Encounters Of The WWW Kind on August 14. As far as I know this is the first Web reference to ACC's Roswell page, and it offers a so far unnoticed and very interesting twist and source of information. Wang isn't new in the ACC context, though. He was the very first to research the case, and it was due to his e-mail to "Doc in Phoenix" on August 20, forwarded to me by the latter, that I was able to break the story to a wider audience, cf. the first URL above. I stood high in Doc's favour due to the news I spread regarding the Roswell-like material made out of carbon nanotubes. A story that you will also find there. Concerning the current e-mail I have asked Wang to share any further information that he or the ex-AFOSI guy hold, as I think it is essential that this new and very interesting twist is verified and, if so, becomes known. The matter is delicate though, and much more so because of the publicity which the ACC story has got, so I fully understand if Wang or the ex-AFOSI guy prefer to keep a low profile. But as the information is already out, I think going public offers the best protection. Stig Here's the post. But first a word of caution. It isn't clear whether the reference to the autopsy film is based on the ex-AFOSI guy's information or Wang's own conclusion. The URL is http://www.skynet.co.uk/~miami/cgi-bin/bbs/messages/25.html and "acsa" is a hyperlink to Wang's e-mail address. *** Have You Seen the Real Story Behind ROSWELL, YET, FOLKS? [ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ Close Encounters BBS ] [ FAQ ] Posted by : acsa on August 14, 1997 at 17:27:29: Hi, There are two particularly interesting accounts of what happened after the Roswell, New Mexico incident, pertaining to the transport of debris and materials FROM Roswell to a then top secret lab in Central New Jersey, which had absolutely nothing to do with weather balloons. You should go to the following sites, where ex-Bell Labs people are poking fun at BL, and doing it tongue in cheek, about these events, figuring nobody will believe the story, anyway, even if it is true. http://www.american-computer.com and http://www.american-computer.com/roswell.htm It appears that the Air Force, in 1947, did an excellent job of classical misdirection, hiding the real truth between our suspicions about the Army and Government cover-up, and claiming it never happened, while all along developing derivative technology from the debris of the crash and commercializing it. I have it on very good authority from an AF ex-OSI guy, that the story depicted on these two pages, is materially true! Now, get this, the Air Force thought the device which crashed might be SOVIET in origin, and autopsied the bodies of its occupants, to determine if they might have been some kind of "radiation mutants". Hence, the autopsy footage, was part of a President Truman ordered effort to determine if Josef Stalin, in 1947, had developed the technology found on board the crashed craft. Go to the above sites for more info. If you check out the dates of the release of technology by Bell, you will find it all jives, both historically, and in progressive events that may have changed the technological direction of the US electronics and aerospace industries for all time. I read it all, and did some research of my own, and now I KNOW what they may have been hiding back in the 40's and 50's and 60's (and even now!) I welcome comments from others: remember - it all happened 50 years ago, and it was a different time then! Maybe the Alien Abduction stories, X-Files, MIB and other UFO related matters were just planted to throw us all a curve, so we would never suspect how SIMPLE the truth was, and exactly what the Military did with the Craft! Ed
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze From: galevy@pipeline.com Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:38:35 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:19:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze > From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:33:44 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze > > Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 06:12:15 -0400 > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> > > Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze [was: MUFON Journal Muses] > > >From: nick@emailme.at.address.below (Nick Humphries) > > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze > > >Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:29:08 GMT > > >>Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:42:24 +1200 > > >>From: Murray Bott <murrayb@kiwi.gen.nz> > > >>To: updates@globalserve.net > > >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Paper on Gulf Breeze > > >>Greetings Barbara > > >>Could I ask you a big favour. > > >>Would it be possible to send me a copy of the Paper on the Gulf Breeze Cas e > > >>which you mention was given to Walt Andrus (and others) > > >>Certainly an electronic version will be welcome (as a hard copy would also ) > > >If the paper isn't going to be published in a journal, perhaps it could be > > >posted here? > > I would add that if you only have a "hard copy" of the document, I would be > > willing to scan it and prepare it for posting (as long as it's typed, and > > not hand written). > > The discussion is starting to discuss the personalities, since we don't > > have the article to use as a basis to discuss the sighting. We can let it > > move in that direction, but it won't prove much in the long run. > > Since the article was submitted to the MUFON Journal, I would suspect that > > the Editor, Dennis Stacy, got a chance to read it. I'm curious as to his > > comments on it, if he would care to share them. Dennis? > List: > Sorry if I did not make myself clear. Part of the information I will > be posting was originally published in ORBITER Magazine. (a sort of > small private publication.) This was in 1992. Maccabee and Ware knew > of this and ignored it. I can understand why...because it really isnt > in their fields. Last year Hilary Evans asked my to write an article > on GB for the book he and Stacy just released. It was at that time that > Stacy became aware of my claims. Nothing was submitted to Stacy for > the Journal. (My paper was cut from the book.) Two months later I sent > all of the information to Walt Andrus with the hope that he would do the > ethical thing and at least consider the information. I guess I really > didnt expect him to respond. In May 1997 I contacted Vicki Cooper and > sent her a package of info. She showed mild interest but it wasnt a > priority. Thats sort of the progression. I hope this clarifies things. > BB Barbara, Yes, things are now quite clarified and Errol has even invited you to post the paper after you asked for an invitation to post it. Post it and they can read! I imagine that if you don't soon, you will recieve the nomination for the Kal Korff MEMORIAL LIST EVASION AWARD. Gary Search for other documents from or mentioning: galevy | c549597 | steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 USAF crashes From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:32:31 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:26:26 -0400 Subject: USAF crashes Hi all, This comes from the web site of Aviation Week and Space Technology. Elevon Vibration Leads to F-117 Crash MICHAEL A. DORNHEIM/LOS ANGELES Air Force grounds stealth fighter fleet after outer wing falls off at Chesapeake Bay air show A14-year-old Air Force/Lockheed F-117A stealth aircraft disintegrated during an air show pass near Baltimore, crashing into a house after a falling leaf descent. The pilot ejected and sustained minor injuries. About a dozen bystanders also suffered minor injuries. Videotape of the Sept. 14 accident shows the left outboard elevon going through at least four rapid up-down oscillations, apparently causing the left outer wing panel to fall off. The attack aircraft rolled 90 deg. left within 0.8 sec., then sharply pitched to a high angle of attack (AOA). A second later, the main landing gear was visible in the down position, probably due to the high loads or loss of hydraulic pressure. Under 3 sec. elapsed from the start of large elevon oscillations to the gear being down. After the aircraft pitched to a high AOA, the flight appeared unstable and out of control. The F-117A is an aerodynamically unstable fly-by-wire aircraft and usually cannot be recovered from high AOA. Aircraft control surfaces are the two rudders and the inboard and outboard elevons on the outer wing panel, powered by two hydraulic systems. The F-117A had made a flyby at Martin State Airport, Md., and was making a moderate straight-ahead pullup for roughly 5 sec., when the large oscillations started. The pilot had an air show waiver to operate at 400 kt. at 500 ft., but actual speed was unavailable late last week. The outer wing panel appeared to separate after a down elevon excursion, with the wingtip bending up, then the panel separating downward while pitching nose-down. Liquid sprayed out--probably hydraulic fluid and fuel--but did not catch on fire. A former Lockheed Martin Skunk Works engineer speculated the cause may be flutter from a loose elevon, rather than the flight control system going haywire. In the grainy videotape, only the one eleven surface appeared to be oscillating, and "it's hard to believe the flight control system would drive just one side," he said. "It looked like classic wing flutter from a loose hinge or worn joint. Once it couples into the structure, it will oscillate at the structural frequency." The frequency of the oscillations was about 7.5 Hz., which could point to either the flight control system or aeroelastic flutter. That rate is roughly the maximum possible for such large elevon deflections if driven by the hydraulic system--but also could be a structural resonance for the outer wing panel. During flight testing, a 10-Hz. outer wing oscillation was encountered while banking when the outboard elevon hinge moment went to zero--when it would be most susceptible to free play. "The fix to this problem consisted of stiffening the outboard elevon actuator control axis and a reduction in elevon free play," Lockheed Martin officials wrote in a presentation. The Air Force has placed the remaining 53 F-117As in stand down until engineers determine it can safely return to routine flying. The aircraft does not have a hardened flight data recorder, and investigators may look for clues in recorders and memory from the head-up display, flight control system, structural tracking and engine monitoring system, and navigation interface/autopilot computer. It was unclear late last week what data survived the crash. Air Force investigators declared the crash site a "national defense area," keeping residents out. They were able to return to their homes three days later, on Sept. 17. The aircraft began to be cut in pieces for removal on Sept. 18. The accident aircraft, tail No. 810793, was accepted by the Air Force in early 1983 and is the ninth production aircraft. It belonged to the 7th Fighter Sqdn. and was temporarily stationed at Langley AFB, Va., to perform at air shows. The pilot was Maj. Bryan Knight, an instructor in the 7th FS. He was released from the hospital one day after the crash. Before the recent accident, there were five hull losses since 59 F-117As started being delivered in 1981. Three accidents were attributed to pilot error or disorientation. Two others were attributed to mechanical causes: one due to switched gyroscope axes in the flight control system, and the other to a pneumatic duct that was not reconnected after maintenance. Air Force records show the F-117A mishap rate is 2.72 per 100,000 flight hours, comparable to the F-15 rate of 2.61. Back To Top Air Crashes Mar 1997 Safety Record Washington After five crashes in four days that killed 12 U.S. servicemen, Defense Secretary William Cohen ordered a 24-hr. flying suspension of training flights. Moreover, an influential House National Security Committee member, Rep. Ike Skelton (D-Mo.), said he intends to call for a new General Accounting Office investigation of military flying accidents. A similar report Skelton requested last fall after a spate of accidents found no common links in the accidents and determined that flying was safer than ever. "I'm thinking of asking GAO to update" the study that looked at the last 20 years of aircraft crashes, Skelton said. He speculated that the GAO would not find that a drop in readiness was at the root of the problem. The suspension of flying may be scheduled anytime through Sept. 26. The standdowns were to take place at the discretion of the services. "Perfection is impossible, but that is our goal," Cohen said. "I have asked the services to implement a 24-hr. safety stand down of training flights that will give those who fly and maintain U.S. military aircraft time to focus on that goal--making flying as safe as we possibly can." The string of accidents began Sept. 13: Sept. 13--an Air Force C-141 and a German Tu-154 apparently collided off the coast of Namibia on Saturday. Wreckage from both aircraft has been found in the same debris field. Nine airmen apparently died. Sept. 14--an Air Force F-117 flying over a Baltimore air show suffered structural breakup and crashed. The pilot ejected safely. Also on Sept. 14--a Navy F/A-18 crashed during training in Oman, killing the pilot. Sept. 15--a Marine Corps F/A-18D, crashed into the Piney Island Bombing Range off the North Carolina coast. Both crewmen were killed. Sept. 16--two Air Force Air National Guard F-16s collided off the coast of New Jersey, causing two pilots to eject. Back To Top German, U.S. Aircraft Crash off African Coast DAVID A. FULGHUM/WASHINGTON and JOHN D. MORROCCO/LONDON Specially equipped U.S. and South African Air Force aircraft have gathered in Namibia to bring their electronic intercept, infrared sensor and all-weather flight capabilities to bear in an often zero-visibility search for debris and bodies from the midair collision of two transport aircraft. A German Tu-154 with 24 on board, headed south to Capetown, South Africa, via Windhoek, Namibia, and a U.S. Air Mobility Command C-141 with nine crewmembers, flying northwest to Ascension Island from Windhoek, collided on Sept. 13 about 80 naut. mi. off the coast of Namibia. Neither aircraft was equipped with a traffic alert and collision avoidance system. U.S. Air Mobility Command has requested TCAS for all C-141s that will be flying for five years or more. However, the program is unfunded, a USAF official said. The tu-154 was leaving an area that is considered by pilots organizations as "critically deficient airspace" in terms of air traffic control. Both aircraft were at about 35,000 ft. A U.S. Space Command official said an infrared early warning satellite recorded a flash or "IR event" at 11:10 a.m. EDT (5:10 p.m. local time) in the area of the crash. A Namibian fisheries patrol boat and two trawlers pulled identifiable parts of both aircraft and the body of a Luftwaffe flight attendant from the same debris field. A French frigate arrived Sept. 17 to take on-scene command of the surface search. Investigators were dispatched to the frigate to examine wreckage. The Tu-154 was one of two in the Luftwaffe's inventory. Formerly the personal aircraft of the East German president, it had been modernized and was fitted with special surveillance equipment for the Open Skies treaty verification program. The aircraft made a refueling stop at Niamey, Niger, and departed for another stop at Windhoek. Luftwaffe officials said the crew filed a flight plan, and one of the flight plan's recipients was to have been Windhoek. Speculation by the Luftwaffe is that there was a communications problem between Niamey and Windhoek. The aircraft's last direct contact was with ground controllers at Accra, Ghana, at about 4 p.m. (German time). The C-141, from the 305th Air Mobility Wing at McGuire AFB, N.J., last communicated with the tower at Windhoek soon after a 4:11 p.m. (local time) takeoff. The aircraft earlier had picked up Army personnel and equipment from Pope AFB, N.C., delivered them at Windhoek, and was flying empty to Ascension Island, an AMC official said. Search and recovery efforts were hampered by fog, low ceilings and daily periods of zero visibility. One of the SAAF's signals intelligence-equipped Boeing 707s, two USAF MC-130 special operations aircraft designed for bad weather and night operations, and two infrared-equipped P-3Cs of Patrol Sqdn. 45 were sent to Windhoek, where operations were coordinated. They joined two German Atlantique patrol aircraft. The air base is about 370 naut. mi. southeast of the search area. The search area was originally 20 X 20 naut. mi., South African officials said. A new joint task force commander, USAF Brig. Gen. John Brooks, expanded the search area to 30 X 30 naut. mi. on Sept. 18. Initially, thick fog covered the area from 3 a.m. until about 11 a.m. daily, leaving only about 712 hr. for visual search. Cloud ceilings of as little as 250 ft. also limited observations. Therefore, the U.S. and SAAF aircraft with sophisticated sensors were needed to continue the search during hours of darkness and poor visibility. Infrared and radar observations made at night were used to plan the next day's operations. Tower operators at Windhoek told Aviation Week & Space Technology that the ramp was now full of aircraft. South African Air Force planners said that beginning the night of Sept. 17, they would stagger three aircraft--a P-3, an MC-130 and an Atlantique--to patrol during the hours of darkness for infrared or electronic signals. The SAAF 707 sigint aircraft had earlier in the week picked up what could have been an automatic rescue beacon signal, but it was so faint that it might also have been noise on the carrier wave, said Lt. Col. Eddie Brown, a SAAF official at Windhoek. The area from which the possible signal emanated was to be searched Sept. 18, he said. Beginning at 7:30 a.m. on Sept. 18, an expanded visual search was to be conducted with five other aircraft (a P-3, two Atlantiques and two C-130s). Ceilings were expected to lift to about 1,000 ft. with clear weather possible late last week. A representative of South Africa's air line pilots association (ALPASA) said that members had feared such a crash. Angola, in particular, "has been unable to upgrade and maintain its aviation infrastructure to keep pace with the increasing volumes of air traffic flying across Africa," said ALPASA General Manager Cathy Bill. "Communication between controllers and pilots is often difficult in the Angola region, and it is possible that the two aircraft were not informed of their close proximity." Bill said that pilots familiar with the region use periodic aircraft-to-aircraft broadcasts to alert other traffic in their vicinity of their presence and thereby avoid collisions. This informal system is necessary because the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) can't force countries to comply with its standards and practices. Bill and other pilots want ICAO to demand a uniform level of safety throughout the world and to ensure overflight fees are used to provide safe and adequate aeronautical services. Some areas of africa have shown dramatic improvements recently, Bill said. "This, however, appears to be dependent on who is on duty at the control center, indicating that training is an area to be concentrated on," Bill said. The were 17 fatal crashes in Africa in 1996. One caused 350 fatalities on the ground. In another, an ADC Boeing 727 pilot maneuvered to evade another aircraft, lost control and crashed, killing all 143 on board. Also, there were 77 near midair collisions, according to an airline survey. __________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Technology Pages http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp \______________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze From: galevy@pipeline.com Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:38:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:50:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze > From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:39:04 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze > > From: galevy@pipeline.com [Gary Alevy] > > Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 10:08:32 -0400 > > To: UFO UpDate <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Paper on Gulf Breeze > > > From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > > > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:12:14 -0500 > > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > > Subject: Paper on Gulf Breeze. > Gary: > I would be very happy to post it here. All I need is the ok from > Errol. > BB Barbara, If you post it, we will read. (or at least I will read it). Generally speaking people have not required an invitation in order to post. Errol's list rules are public. Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 =?iso-8859-1?Q?UFO_UpDate:_ACC's_Communiqu=E9?= From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 02:27:01 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:49:14 -0400 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?UFO_UpDate:_ACC's_Communiqu=E9?= Found at http://www.american-computer.com/shadowlake_invitation.htm TEXT OF THE INVITATION TO SHADOWLAKE ISSUED BY AMERICAN COMPUTER COMPANY: AMERICAN COMPUTER COMPANY 6 COMMERCE DRIVE CRANFORD, NEW JERSEY 07016 22-SEPT-1997 A COMMUNIQUE ADDRESSED TO THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, VARIOUS SENIOR PENTAGON OFFICIALS OF THE UNITED STATES ARMY AND AIR FORCE, AND THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF, WAS ISSUED AS OF 18:00 HOURS BY AMERICAN COMPUTER COMPANY, SET FORTH AS FOLLOWS -- RE: A MATTER OF CONSIDERABLE URGENCY GENTLEMEN: FOR NEARLY 50 YEARS, AMERICAN CITIZENRY HAVE BEEN CALLING FOR A SERIOUS INVESTIGATION OF THE VERY STRANGE ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE ARMY ON AND AFTER JULY 7TH OF 1947 REGARDING AN ALLEGED MISHAP INVOLVING SOME FORM OF AIRBORNE CRAFT OUTSIDE OF ROSWELL, NEW MEXICO, AND SINCE THAT TIME, REGARDING A LARGE NUMBER OF OTHER ALLEGED, SO-CALLED "UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECT" INCIDENTS. THE MOST COMMON EXPLANATIONS, SEEMINGLY NUMEROUS, OFTEN FAR-FETCHED, MANY TIMES VERY CONTRADICTORY, AND GENERALLY NOT WIDELY BELIEVED, HAS CAUSED TO COME INTO BEING, A 'SITUATION' THAT SORELY NEEDS ADDRESSING, IN KEEPING WITH OUR AMERICAN HERITAGE - THAT OF A PEOPLE AND A COUNTRY FOUNDED FOR ONE OVER-RIDING PURPOSE: OUR EMINENT AND MUTUAL FREEDOM. IT HAS BEEN THAT, FOR SOME TIME, MEMBERS OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC HAVE EXPRESSED FAIRLY WIDESPREAD OUTRAGE OVER A WIDELY HELD BELIEF THAT OUR GOVERNMENT HAS HELD BACK SECRETS THAT, WERE THEY REVEALED, WOULD ALLEGEDLY REVEAL A LONG PRACTICE OF CONCEALMENT CONNECTED WITH VISITS TO OUR PLANET BY OTHERWORLDLY SPECIES, CONCEALMENT OF THE TRUTH FROM THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND ALL OF HUMANITY. WE CAN NOT CONTINUE TO STAND BY IDLY WITH THIS BELIEF SO STRONGLY HELD, WITH NO PUBLIC POLICY IN PLACE THAT COULD JUSTIFY THE DEEP SEATED ENTRENCHMENT OF THE PERCEPTION THAT A "POLICY AND PRACTICE OF LYING, COVERSION, COVER-UP AND CONSPIRACY" RULES THE AMERICAN POLITICAL SYSTEM AND THE OPERATIONS OF THE UNITED STATES PENTAGON, EXECUTIVE AND STATE DEPARTMENTS AND DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE. THE HUGE NUMBER OF ANECDOTAL, AND SOME LESS THAN ANECDOTAL, CLAIMS THAT HUMANITY HAS BEEN VISITED BY ANOTHER SPECIES FROM OUTSIDE THIS PLANET OR OUR SOLAR SYSTEM, LEADS US TO BELIEVE THAT AN 'EMPANELMENT' OF DESIGNATED ANALYSTS EMPOWERED TO ENGAGE IN ONGOING RESEARCH INTO PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE CLAIMS, MUST IMMEDIATELY BE ORGANIZED, AND THAT, OVER ALL, NO STONE SHOULD BE LEFT UNTURNED. TO THAT END, WE INVITE YOU TO CONFERENCE WITH THE PEOPLE IN AN OPEN FORUM TO DISCUSS THESE PAST EVENTS, SUCH AS 'ROSWELL', NO MATTER HOW IMPROBABLE YOU MAY FIND IT THAT ANY RESOLUTION OF FINDINGS OF FACT MAY GIVE RISE FROM SUCH A MEETING. IT IS OUR OPINION THAT THE VAST BREADTH OF THE OPINION HELD BY MANY AMERICANS MAKES SUCH ACTION AN IMPERATIVE ONE, IN DEFENSE OF YOUR OWN ACTIONS, THOSE WHO CAME BEFORE YOU, THOSE WHO WILL COME AFTER YOU AND OF THE REPUTATION OF AMERICA THE WORLD OVER. ITS PURPOSE: TO CREATE A PROPER FORUM FOR AN AIRING OF WHAT HAPPENED, WHAT VARIOUS NOW DECLASSIFIED OBSERVATIONS BY MILITARY PERSONNEL, VARIOUS RECORDINGS MADE BY AIR FORCE AND NASA PERSONNEL AND WHAT THE SO-CALLED 'SIGHTINGS' BY NON-MILITARY PERSONNEL ALL MEANS, IN POINT OF FACT. THERE IS NOT POWER ON EARTH, NOR ORGANIZATION OF MANKIND, GREATER IN NOBILITY NOR GREATER IN ABILITY, THAN THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. YOU REPRESENT OUR FINEST, OUR BEST, AND OUR BRAVEST. WHO AMONGST ALL OF US ARE BEST SUITED TO ASSIST THE PEOPLE IN A MATTER OF SUCH OVERWHELMING IMPORTANCE? IN THE INTEREST OF PROMOTING THE HEALING OF BAD FAITH ON THIS SUBJECT, I WOULD INVITE YOU TO RESPOND AT YOUR EARLIEST CONVENIENCE TO OUR OFFICES IN NEW JERSEY, AT WHICH TIME WE CAN DETERMINE WHAT TYPE OF PARTICIPATION IN A WELL ORGANIZED PUBLIC DISCUSSION FORUM MIGHT ENCOURAGE YOU TO BE COMPLETELY CANDID WITH THE AMERICAN PEOPLE REGARDING YOUR OWN FINDINGS, INFERENCES YOU HAVE DRAWN FROM WHAT YOU HAVE SEEN, HEARD, RECORDED AND PHOTOGRAPHED, AND CONCLUSIONS THAT HAVE RESULTED FROM YOUR EFFORTS. THERE MAY BE NO BETTER TIME THAN NOW FOR AMERICANS EVERYWHERE TO BECOME WELL INFORMED ON THIS MATTER. KINDLY REPLY RSVP, ACC/SHADOWLAKE RESEARCH CENTER, CRANFORD, NJ 908-272-3330. -------- WRITER'S E-MAIL: nicolai_tesla@msn.com TELEX: shadowlake.2000 =A9 Copyright 1997 American Computer Company. All Rights Reserved. DO NOT REPRODUCE THIS PAGE WITHOUT OUR EXPRESS WRITTEN PERMISSION. SIMPLY POINT A LINK TO IT WITHOUT MODIFYING THIS PAGE'S CONTENT THANK YOU. =BF Search for other documents from or mentioning: stig_agermose |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality From: mailbox@ix.netcom.com [Bob Wolf] Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 08:01:10 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:33:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality >From: fergus@ukraine.corp.mot.com [George Fergus] >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:29:55 -0500 (CDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Transistor from Roswell: claims and Reality >For several weeks now, a consultant with the American Computer Company >has been telling the world via their website that Bell Labs did not >really invent the transistor but rather reverse-engineered it from >an alien artifact recovered from the Roswell UFO crash, and that the >device in the "famous transfer resistor test rig" at Bell Labs was, >in fact, "an actual piece of the original Alien integrated circuit >array". >A recent addition to the website adds the following: [snipped] Mr. Fergus: You forgot to tell everyone you work for Motorola, a defacto SUBSIDIARY of AT&T. Also, you failed to notice that nothing you have said below, defines a Transistor that existed prior to September of 1947. And, nothing you have said below defines anything but a DIODE prior to September 1947. You fail to identify how Bell Labs arrived at a completely new device, the Transistor, in September of 1947. You are a player for the Bell Labs syndicate, Mr. Fergus, spreading disinformation. Your letter below is BOGUS. I feel confident in swearing to one and all that I have been to Bell Labs and spoken with a Public Relations person there who admitted to me: "We really don't know how Dr. Shockley arrived so suddenly at the invention of the Transistor. He just did... but this article by American Computer, its raking us throught the coals because, the Transistor probably came from a Defense Department project..." she said. And which project was that, Mr. Fergus? The Roswell One? I think so! -- Bob Wolfe
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: Ed Dames on the Phoenix 'Lights' From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 18:57:27 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 00:22:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Ed Dames on the Phoenix 'Lights' >Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 09:41:22 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Ed Dames on the Phoenix 'Lights' >> From: Michael Curta <UFOMedic@net1comm.com> >> To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> >> Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Ed Dames on the Phoenix 'Lights' >> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 16:26:58 -0600 >> >From: William.Hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com >> >Date: Friday, 19 September 1997 7:37am MT >> >To: updates@globalserve.net >> >Subject: Ed Dames on the Phoenix Lights >Hello Bill & Michael, >I similarly agree on this. As far as I can tell, Ed Dames is in the same >mold as Courtney Brown, and very likely a disinformation specialist, IMO. >One thing that quickly turned me off of Ed Dames was his insistence, on >Art Bell's show, that RV is a scientific topic. It seemed to me like he >would spend more time talking about the scientific nature of his RV >research than on specific results that might be scientifically attested. >Jim Deardorff Since I'm a mostly-trained remote viewer, I'll jump in here. Courtney is actually in Ed Dames's mold, since Courtney learned (for the first level of training, I believe) from Ed. Ed never was a remote viewer for the military (instead he did administrative stuff and, according to some of the real military viewer's, bungled things so badly that he was rotated out at the earliest opportunity), but he was trained by Ingo Swann, who developed Controlled Remote Viewing. RV, and other forms of psi, *have* been proven in the lab and therefore not only have they been the subject of scientific testing, these phenomena have shown themselves to be demonstrable/repeatable and therefore certainly worthy of more study. Ed Dames doesn't exactly follow the usual protocols in his RVing and is known to "lead" his viewers and other such no-nos. I would hesitate to call his brand of remote viewing, which he calls "Technical Remote Viewing," as particularly scientific, although it does resemble the remote viewing methodologies used for many years at SRI and in the military (although other forms of remote viewing were also used and tested). An outstanding new book is out, "The Conscious Universe," by Dean Radin, and it details the history of lab testing of psi. Excellent book that has even won the seal of approval of Hyman (head of CSICOP). ('Course Dean Radin's being fired from his position at University of Nevada at Las Vegas in a maneuver which certainly resembles the "Mack Attack.") Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> Search for other documents from or mentioning: turel33 | deardorj |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: More Military Jet Crashes From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 97 20:39:58 Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:19:20 -0400 Subject: Re: More Military Jet Crashes >Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 18:13:49 +0100 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: More Military Jet Crashes >I don't think any of these recent military crashes have a UFO >connection Jim but that's not to say they don't. But the last you >mentioned jarred my memory. It was an A-10 Thunderbold [dubbed a >"Warthog" by their pilots] and as you mentioned they found the A-10 >but not the pilot, and I'm not sure about the bombs it was carrying. >Anybody out there got any more news on this one? They did find the pilot's body as pieces... even confirmed with DNA testing... which also confirmed that he did not have HIV... they did not find the bombs after searching all summer. They searched the many lakes in the area, in case he dropped them before crashing... It is an unsolved mystery now, since they have decided to quit searching. Roger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: More Military Jet Crashes From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 97 19:52:12 Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:18:07 -0400 Subject: Re: More Military Jet Crashes >Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 09:48:26 -0400 >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: More Military Jet Crashes >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >It would be interesting to know if it is only the USA which is >experiencing these. Has anyone on the list heard of military >aircraft crashes or incidents in other countries in the last >few weeks? I hope no one sees a conspiracy or UFO involvlement in this... Roger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: 'Rods'? From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 97 19:29:47 Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:20:46 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Rods'? >Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 02:27:01 -0400 >From: "James A. Peters" <James_Peters@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Rods'? >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Date: Wed, 17 Sep 97 17:29:00 >From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Rods'? >Its an expensive proposition. So any fund raising efforts by Jose and >Karen for the rods expedition should be held in the light of clearly >bringing the best data focused on this phenomena. Jose has openly >invited "skeptics" to join the expedition for them to monitor the >process of the data collection. They can come with us and film along > with us. >Does this sound like a person eager for the spotlight just to get >equipment? If Jose was able to animate quality rods in hundreds of >hours of footage taken by other people, he wouldn't need this as a >springboard for some kind of career goal. Industrial Light and Magic, >Pixar, or Dreamworks would have already picked him up by now. James, Thanks for your post. Maybe I am being too critical on this rod thing... I now see that both you and Michael Curta have obviously spent time in researching this phenomenon... I was perhaps rude to everyone who I posted my comments to.... Since I am in Denver too, I should take some time and get together with you and Michael... and Jose and Karen and see for myself. Is this a topic at the MUFON meetings, or do you get together with Jose and Karen elsewhere? Let me know when you get together... maybe I'll tag along to learn more... if I'm invited. <g> Roger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: More military jet crashes From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 97 20:53:07 Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:21:14 -0400 Subject: Re: More military jet crashes >From: CFQ2@aol.com [Charles Quinn] >Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 18:44:35 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: More military jet crashes >I believe that aliens are now dumping military aircraft out of our >skies as some kind of retaliation. What next? Do we blame natural disasters on aliens too? I don't see where anyone can tie this coincidence with aliens... Roger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 23 ACC: MAKE IT STOP! From: XianneKei@aol.com [Rebecca Keith] Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 00:28:23 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:22:08 -0400 Subject: ACC: MAKE IT STOP! 'nuff said! Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:35:43 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:23:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings > Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 02:49:35 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings John Velez is caught in the act of making a point: > I am re-posting a single frame capture from the videotape that I got. Thank you for posting your pixle. > What I have here is a tad more than a "pinpoint" or mere "blotch." Thank you for the foresight of drawing an arrow to the pixle so that I could find it. It was very thoughtful of you. > Until you have conducted an analysis that proves that the image I have > submitted is a 'blotch' or a trick, or any other video artifact you're just > pissing in the wind and expressing a 'personal oppinion.' You should > preface your remarks that way. Your 'oppinion' which isn't based on any > personal analysis of the image that I submitted adds absolutely nothing of > value or anything 'substantial' or helpful for that matter. > You can't dismiss it with words Ed, you'll have to do a little better than > that or find something else to vent your vinegar on. I'm trying to get > informed responses that are _based on actual analysis_ of my pictures, when > I want your "oppinion" I'll ask you for it. And, don't hold yer breath > waitin! <G> It is my personal opinion that a pixle is a pixle is a pixle. > No, we'll just spout or personal oppinions in such a way as to make them > sound like they actually have substance. I posted a picture of something > that flew overhead in the sky Ed. Analyse it and post your results or like > I said, go tell it to Skippy. Skippy is very much impressed with your power pixle, but he wanted me to also make it clear that skippy too felt it was very thoughtful of you to draw an arrow to it so that the power pixle would not be confused with any one of the other 12,000+ pixles in the image. > Look at the pictures Ed. It is my opinion that what you captured on video as exemplified by the single frame capture jpeg image stands and deserves to be nominated for power pixle of the week with honorable mentions to the videographer for the amplified and enhanced special effects versions showing that one can squeeze a pixle for all its got and still not have more than a pixle to show originally. And now, I must return to a pile of old Australian papers and journals from the 50s/60s that arrived today weighing over 30 lbs. It seems that the pixle phenomena is worldwide and affects all cultures regardless of shampoo. Ed Stewart ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart egs@netcom.com | So Man, who here seems principal alone, There is Something | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Going On! ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, Salvador Freixedo ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. --------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man -------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: UFO sighting with John Velez From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 02:52:10 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:27:05 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez Hi John, > Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:53:40 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez > >Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 16:50:44 +0100 > >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez > >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >> From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > >> Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez > >> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:28:08 -0700 > >> > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/19/97 > >> > 10:19 PM: > >> > Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 04:09:16 -0500 > >> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > >> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez > >> > Hi Mark, > >> > You respond to Gregs account, > >> > >Again, possibly a sign of an object at the extreme limits of > >> > >visibility, possibly reflecting sun for a period, and then > >> > >banking or otherwise redirecting the reflection elsewhere. > >> > Nope. Wasn't hard to see at all. It was about the same apparent size > >> > and brightness as Jupiter when seen in the night sky. > >snipped for brevity....... > DON WRITES, > >Hello John, Mark, EBK and list, > (SNIP) > >Perhaps John, you could give us an idea of how large a portion of the > >sky is visible to you and your field of view. > I'll did better Don, I've drawn you a picture! <G> BTW, thank you for your > posts and involvement, it is greatly appreciated. It's a great illustration John and extremely helpful You angles show that it would have been impossible for the object to be an a/c on glide slope due to the extreme angle it would have to assume to descend and appear to be hovering. This was the point I was trying to make in an earlier submission. > >So again I would ask John is/was your view very restricted, or somewhat > >restricted vertically, or do you have a more expansive field of view? >Well, as you can see from the illustration what I have is >a swath of sky directly overhead and then a tree blocks me >to the west, and the building itself from the east. The >house is only 30' to 35' tall and the tree in the back is >only slightly taller, so I do have some (although very >restricted) lateral view. Hope this helps Don. > I can assure you (and backing it up with decades of observational > experience) that what Greg and I observed WAS NOT AN AIRPLANE. I've > seen too many airplanes for too long to mistake them at the distance > and apparent size that this object was. I live very near to JFK I get > airplanes to study out the ying yang! This 'thing' whatever it was _WAS > NOT_ an airplane. > John Velez I have found that it is highly unlikely for people living in densely populated areas with large well used airports to confuse airplanes with UFOs because they become skilled observers. Normally it takes something highly unusual to spook them. People are so used to seeing airplanes in the sky, on TV in the movies that they are no longer in awe of them... even kids. I'll stick my neck out here and even go so far as to say that the number of UFO sightings these days that would have to be classed as solid unknowns is better than 50% rather than the oft proclaimed 5 or 6% of yesteryear...and I'm sure those figures were inaccurate. Regards, Don Ledger Search for other documents from or mentioning: dledger | jvif |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze From: RGates8254@aol.com Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 01:40:33 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:29:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze > From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:32:17 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze > > From: DONFEII@aol.com [Don Ecker] > > Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 15:39:22 -0400 (EDT) > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze > > To All; > > Approx. one week ago I sent private email > > to Ms. Barbara Becker with a request to look > > at the information she stated she had, for a possible > > story to be run in UFO Magazine. As of this days > > date, 09/20/97, I have not had any word from Ms. > > Becker, nor did she acknowledge my email to > > her. > Your E-mail is dated WED.17, SEPT. 17:20:16-0400 EDT. > Your little note is SAT. 20 SEPT. 1997. 15:39:22-0400 EDT > Now maybe I'm just not as smart as you but that looks like THREE DAYS not > a week. As for not responding to you, I DO NOT OWE YOU ANY KIND OF > EXPLANATION. However, I was simply NOT in town until this evening. > I actually have a life outside of UFOs. > > At this point, one begins to wonder if her "proof" > > would bear the scrutiny of a non-biased reviewer. > You have a long way to go to be non-biased. > BTW: Maybe you should read the E-mail I sent Vicki on May 11, 1997 > regarding this issue. I came to you FIRST. Don't you two talk to each > other? > Barbara Becker Gee whiz Barb, all we seem to hear from you is alot of yap and no action. Inspite of all your complaining about allegedly being censored by people, you don't seem eager to present the so called evidence-of-the-hoax-of-the-century. Sounds more and more like an OP-ED piece. Still waiting for all the alleged evidence. Cheers, Robert Search for other documents from or mentioning: rgates8254 | c549597 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings From: Chris Penrose <penrose@sfc.keio.ac.jp> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 97 18:16:39 +0900 Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:11:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings >Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 02:49:35 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings >I am re-posting a single frame capture from the videotape that I >got. What I have here is a tad more than a "pinpoint" or mere >"blotch." I have looked at the image and have made attempts to recreate John's enhancements. I could not identically repeat the enhancements, which does not invalidate the enhancement at all. It is evident, and it would be great if John could comment, that the JPEG video frame that was posted to the list was not used for the enhancement. Instead, the original scanned frame was used before this lossy JPEG image was created. Is this the case? The JPEG encoding artifacts are quite prevalent in sfc-1july2697_.jpg. I used Adobe Photoshop 3.0 to repeat the enhancements. John does not mention that he also employed contrast modifications to obtain the enhanced image. When I employed enlargement, desaturatation, and extreme contrast, my reproduction began to look very similar to John's enhancement. Would it be possible, John, to send a non-lossy format version of the image, i.e. TIFF etc., via email to interested scrutinizers such as myself, or leave it at an ftp site? Christopher Penrose penrose@sfc.keio.ac.jp
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:11:29 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:35:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze Those who responded personally and requested a copy of my paper for their websites know that in answering them I told them it would be a week before I could get it out. I wanted to tighten it up, make it shorter and more concise for the medium in which it will be presented. Since my initial request was for websites it never occured to me that anyone here (with the exception of a few who encouraged its transmission on updates and to whom I would send copies) would be waiting to read it. Errol has said to post it so I will. Hang on...you'll be able to tear me apart soon enough. BB
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: UFOR: 'Alien Embryo' Enigma - Hoax or Cover Up? From: "WHITE" <mjawhite@digitaldune.net> [John White] Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 04:56:10 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:16:19 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOR: 'Alien Embryo' Enigma - Hoax or Cover Up? >Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 04:02:29 -0400 (EDT) >From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> >Subject: UFOR: 'Alien Embryo' Enigma - Hoax or Cover Up? >From: Jorge Martin <jmartin@coqui.net> >The 'Alien Embryo' Enigma - Hoax or Cover Up? >By Jorge Mart=EDn - UFO Researcher - Puerto Rico Jorge wrote: >In the early hours of Wednesday, September 17, 1997,a young man was >murdered in a desolate street of La Colecto-ra community, located in >Santurce, Puerto Rico...and the incident became a media event and a >shocking and alarming incident, as it seemed to be related to an alien >situation. Why this? List: Is there any follow-up on this post floating on another site? John White Search for other documents from or mentioning: mjawhite | d005734c |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 24 Together Beyond Boundaries From: Beyond Boundaries <jmurphy@onramp.net> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 00:12:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 00:12:41 -0500 Subject: Together Beyond Boundaries
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Assertions by ACC about alien computers From: Dan <geibdan@qtm.net> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:34:41 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:00:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Assertions by ACC about alien computers > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > Subject: Assertions by ACC about alien computers > Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 02:00:55 -0700 > "The UNIX operating system, even the Bell Labs forerunners of the > Digital Equipment Corporation PDP-1 (The 1B), the PDP-11 and the > Motorola M-6800 (The 2B), the Motorola M-68000 (The 3B), the > RISC-SPARC (The 4B) and variations, may all have been caseworks > developed from knowledge reverse engineered out of an alien > computer so complex that only parts of it are fully understood > today. " > This is clearly ridiculous. The history of the , except > to DOS addicts or people who think a hex keypad is a user interface. > (no flame wars please, it's just a joke!) > RISC chips actually emerged from controversies in code generation > techniques among compiler designers, who claimed that they could > generate better code with simpler instruction sets and lots of registers. > This turned out to be a mixed blessing, since, while the technique > scales well, the object code produced by RISC-oriented compilers > is clearly larger, and thus takes longer to load, and, of course, there > are more instructions to process. > There is no relationship between the 6800/68000 and the SPARC, > except maybe a flat address space. > Motorola fans will note that their favorite chip is clearly alien, and, > thus, more advanced (Mac and Amiga owners, rejoice!), while the > Intel chips are more crude, human devices... or are they really > an attempt by aliens to sabotage the lives of compiler writers and > assembly language programmers... (segmented memory, yechh) :-) > At any rate, if Shulman is knowledgeable about computers, why > does he take this consultant seriously? > ------ > Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at > http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman > - Original digital art, writing, and UFO research - > Author of SF novels available at... > http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront> ---- -- I had a class in Unix once and although its editor is not alien if you have ever seen the cryptic commands you might just think its alien :o) Sorry if any of you UNIX folks take offense, none meant, but gloryosky i have never used anything so abstract in my life.... except my own code.. hahahahahahaha Dan UFO Folklore at http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/framemst.html > \_______________________________________________/ > > UFO UpDates - Toronto - updates@globalserve.net > Operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp - ++ 416-696-0145 > > An E-Mail Subscription Service for the Study of > UFO Related Phenomena > > UFO UpDates Instant Archive now available at > http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates > > MUFON Ontario's Home Page: > http://www.globalserve.net/~updates/mufon/ -- <>=======<>========<>========<>=====<>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality From: fergus@ukraine.corp.mot.com Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:35:41 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:02:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality > Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:56:09 +0100 > From: Neil Morris <Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality > It seems to me there have been a "number" of leaps of technology > in the history of semiconductors but the initial one other than > the invention of the transistor was the convertion of that "point > contact" lab working model into the mass produced "fused junction" > device, ie the doped P or N materials fused together to produce a > robust component, I find it odd that the germainium point contact > diode had been about for some time yet this technique hadn't seemed > to have been used, they were still playing about with point contact > "cats whiskers". I doubty that this semiconductor history will not be of interest to most of the people on this list, but since you ask... The "cat's whisker" is actually what allowed these semiconductor diodes to compete successfully in a world of vacuum tubes. A point contact is of such small area that it has a very low capacitance and thus works to much higher frequencies than either bulk-contact semi- conductors or vacuum tubes. Thus, in order to improve high-bandwidth systems such as microwave radar, the U.S. military funded a fair amount of applied research and development on such semiconductor diodes, which laid the groundwork for the later discovery of the transistor effect. If p-n junctions had been the only semiconductor diodes available at the time, having little real-world advantage over vacuum tube diodes except as photo-detectors, it is likely that semi- conductor development would have proceeded much more slowly. Also, these diodes _were_ "mass produced" in much the same way that transistors and integrated circuits are made today. Silicon or germanium was purified and grown into large crystals, which were sliced into thin wafers and then diced into hundreds of individual "chips" of silicon or germanium, each of which was then put into an individual package which was screwed together until the "cat's whisker" spring probe made contact. > The other leap which came later was the introduction > of the "planer" contruction technique where the P and N type > materials were layed down in layers one atop the other in a > diffusion process. This allowed for miniturisation and eventually > integrated circuits and todays computer revolution. As has been noted before, it was a progression of small steps rather than a leap, but it is worth noting that it was at this point that silicon came to be preferred over germanium, because the surface of a silicon wafer can be oxidized to form a hard glass (e.g. silicon dioxide) which forms an excellent surface protectant and insulator, and can be patterned and re-grown in successive layers. -George Fergus
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: ACC's VP responds to George Fergus From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:22:35 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:04:13 -0400 Subject: Re: ACC's VP responds to George Fergus The following is MY OPINION, alone: NOTE: Mr. Fergus is a Motorola Employee, according to his email address. Motorola is an AT&T Company and makes the commercial versions of AT&T's Products and is the OUTGROWTH of the Innovere project created by Bell Labs and AT&T Microelectronics. It is a forefunner venture to today's Lucent technologies. They had written several letters to us by EMAIL that we are having a hard time believing. Ask him to publish our responses to his allegations. NOTE: According to the Department of Physics at a Major University: The BELL TRANSISTOR EFFECT is different than the physics of the High Back Voltage Rectifier, in spite of the apparent misdirection we previously received from Mr. Fergus, by Email, claiming that everything from the High Back Voltage Rectifier to the Silicon Diode to the Germanium Diode to the Point Contact Diode were, in fact, the Transistor. It is irrelevant WHAT AN ALIEN DEVICE THAT PROVIDED HOWEVER SMALL YET SIGNIFICANT INSIGHT MIGHT LEAD ONE TO DETERMINE HOW TO BUILD A TRANSISTOR, WAS MADE OF - fact is, if BELL LABS didn't know how exactly to construct one in June of 1947, and in July and August they received an Alien Device, in 1947, and in September, October, November and December of 1947, on their own, from the knowledge they gathered, they BUILT ONE, no matter even if it was SUSPECTED that such a device might be able to be constructed at the time, it would still have been the ALIEN DEVICE that gave them the missing link to building the BELL TRANSISTOR. As near as we can tell, ALL THE SUNS in the UNIVERSE are made by the same fundamental laws of the Universe, the same Periodic Table, and operate in accordance with those same laws. Accordingly, if Germanium, so be it, if Silicon, so be it, if Old Truck Tires, so be it. You and I suspect that the Star Trek TRANSPORT Beam could, in fact, become a reality, but that doesn't mean anything less than a run in with an Alien Space Craft with a Transporter on it, might make it feasible for Humanity to build one, even if someone, somewhere, had a prior idea on how to produce one. None of what Mr. Fergus wrote to us, appears to be anything but conjecture, as documents from 1949 and before can not be bonafide'd as to their authenticity at this time, particularly not the one about the NRDC - and it does not appear likely, here's why: If the "Fergus" disclosure was published in 1945, then the BELL TRANSISTOR was in the PUBLIC DOMAIN ALLREADY and would not have qualified for patenting, as BELL WOULD HAVE WAIVED ITS RIGHTS if it published its work without a patent or if it came from some other source - THEN THAT SOURCE DESERVES THE RECOGNITION and Bell Labs a LEMON for having stolen the TRANSISTOR, in 1945. Ergo, I am of the opinion it was all smoke intended to hide one of two deceptions: a) Either the Transistor was in the public domain and Bell didn't invent it and wasn't entitled to patent it and should be compelled to return illegally gotten profits to the American People and the US Government, and companies raped by Bell Labs lawsuits over the ensuing decades; or b) The Transistor was the result of "outside contact with a more advanced species", AND Didn't belong to Bell Labs in the first place, hence, Bell should be compelled to return illegally gotten profits to the American People and the US Government, and companies raped by Bell Labs lawsuits over the ensuing decades. The third explanation: That despite alleged publishings in 1945 (according to George Fergus of Motorola) that the Transistor had already been developed, Bell Labs, in 1947, announced in December it had invented it at that time, and filed its first patent, three years after the NRDC placed the concepts into the Public Domain. Somehow, this just does not seem real likely. I suppose George Fergus will, as he has with us, try to argue back (from the pen of an AT&T or Motorola counsel) that these facts regarding a Patent are arguable, but frankly, the underlying premise that RCA, PHILIPS, GE, MARCONI, SARNOFF, SYLVANIA, EMERSON, ZENITH, HONEYWELL, IBM, UNIVAC, DR. WANG, ECKART AND MAUCKLEY, and all the other electronics and research companies in the US and elsewhere ignored the NRDC disclosure of the details of a TRANSISTOR in 1945, for three and a half years, giving Bell Labs its opportunity to patent the most significant device of our Century, ISN'T EVEN BELIEVABLE. Or, perhaps it was off of an earlier UFO crash and everyone but Bell were afraid to patent it. -- John
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Assertions by ACC about alien computers From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:49:51 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:05:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Assertions by ACC about alien computers Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared wrote: > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 02:00:55 -0700 > Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 10:28:21 -0400 > Subject: Re: Assertions by ACC about alien computers > "The UNIX operating system, even the Bell Labs forerunners of the > Digital Equipment Corporation PDP-1 (The 1B), the PDP-11 and the > Motorola M-6800 (The 2B), the Motorola M-68000 (The 3B), the > RISC-SPARC (The 4B) and variations, may all have been caseworks > developed from knowledge reverse engineered out of an alien > computer so complex that only parts of it are fully understood > today. " > This is clearly ridiculous. The history of the Unix operating system > is well known, and it embodies a simplification of the earlier Multics > operating system. There is nothing particularly alien about it, except > to DOS addicts or people who think a hex keypad is a user interface. > (no flame wars please, it's just a joke!) Mark, I strongly agree, this is nonsense. The entire history and genesis of UNIX is well documented from AT&T UNIX to Berkeley UNIX. It should also be noted that UNIX, all though the primary standard by which the Internet exists, was not particularly innovative at it's inception and many of the folks that were around since the ARPA days have always been of the opinion that other operating systems would've done a better job. The reason UNIX got to be where it is is not because it was so great, it's because it was FREE and hence it was spread around quite a bit. Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: London UFO Meeting From: John Hayes <ufoinfo@cableinet.co.uk> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 19:16:28 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:06:59 -0400 Subject: Re: London UFO Meeting Dear Errol, If possible please post this message for any UK readers on the list - Thank you. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D LONDON UFO STUDIES (LUFOS) Present APOLLO MOON LANDINGS: FACT OR FICTION With MARCUS ALLEN 3rd October 1997 Unity Hall Bramley Close Walthamstow London E 17 Time: 8.00pm - 11.00pm (Doors Open: 7.30pm) Admission: =A34.00 (=A32.00 Senior Citizens/Concessions) Enquiries to Roy Lake on 0181-270 9919 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D John Hayes ufoinfo@cableinet.co.uk ufoinfo@digiserve.com Visit UFOINFO @ http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: ACC: MAKE IT STOP! From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:30:43 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:26:23 -0400 Subject: Re: ACC: MAKE IT STOP! > From: XianneKei@aol.com [Rebecca Keith] > Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 00:28:23 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: ACC: MAKE IT STOP > 'nuff said! > Rebecca Hear, hear!! Right on Rebecca. Don
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 24 BWW Media Alert 970923 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:34:55 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:58:17 -0400 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970923 Bufo Calvin P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com Website: http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin ( <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/B ufoCalvin/index.html">BufoCalvin's Home Page</A> ) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert provided that attribution is made to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with strangers before you e-mail them something. If you forward this, please make sure it is clear that you are forwarding it). September 23, Addenda and Errata In other words, I screwed up :) . I think that's the first time I've actually listed something in the wrong place. I took two separate listings and made them into one, which is misleading, of course. The right place for Salvatore Trento, author of a series of travel guidebooks on weird places, including Field Guide to Mysterious Places of Eastern North America ( <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0805044493/bufosweir dworldA/">Field Guide to Mysterious Places of Eastern North America</A> ) is tonight =on-line= at http://www.omnimag.com ( <A HREF="http://www.omnimag.com/ talk/">OMNI Prime Time</A> ). Let's see: oh, I've started isolating the web-links (which may appear as code to you, depending on your e-mail system) in parentheses and that seems to work better. Thanks to people who commented on it. I'd love to list SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO for you, but the website still appears to have last week's guests listed. I can, though, list STRANGE UNIVERSE, which has a new website at http://www.strangeuniverse.com ( <A HREF="http://www.strangeuniverse.com/SUadf rm.shtml">Strange Universe</A> ). Tuesday: Yowie (the Australian "bigfoot"); Mike's Cloud's (guy takes pictures of clouds); Psychic radio (a psychic and a skeptic share a show) Wednesday: Mars Group; Hidden Truth Conpiracy (reverse speech, presumably David Oates); Millenial Models Thursday: Chakra Fashion; Meher Baba; Chinese Pharmacology Friday: Psycho Backho; Draka Fighting; Strange Contest (the search for "the strangest person in America) This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before. _____________________________ **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. ______________________________ <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/weirdware/books.html">Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Books </A>I'm very excited about this! Some of you know, I ran a bookstore for years, and it has always been a love of mine. I get asked often to recommend books (I do write reviews for several publications) on these topics, and now I can do it and actually give you a source for them at the same time! This is being done in association with Amazon.com, which has an outstanding reputation for the five "S"s of internet shopping: selection, searchability, service, savings, and security. If there is any specific book you want (or topic in which you are interested), let me know and I will do the research and e-mail you a link you can use to check it out more (and order it if you want). I will be linking to books within the Media Alert, to make it more efficient for you. If you click on the link, you will be sent to that title on Amazon. You do =not= have to buy it at that point! You may, but the option is yours.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:04:54 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:00:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings >Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:35:43 -0700 >From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings >> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 02:49:35 -0500 >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings >John Velez is caught in the act of making a point: >> I am re-posting a single frame capture from the videotape that I got. >Thank you for posting your pixle. >> What I have here is a tad more than a "pinpoint" or mere "blotch." >Thank you for the foresight of drawing an arrow to the pixle so that I >could find it. It was very thoughtful of you. I drew the arrow for you! It turns out that I was justified in doing so, you really ought to put on those glasses the eye doctor gave you occasionally. I'll tell you why in a minute. >> Until you have conducted an analysis that proves that the image I have >> submitted is a 'blotch' or a trick, or any other video artifact you're just >> pissing in the wind and expressing a 'personal oppinion.' You should >> preface your remarks that way. Your 'oppinion' which isn't based on any >> personal analysis of the image that I submitted adds absolutely nothing of >> value or anything 'substantial' or helpful for that matter. >> You can't dismiss it with words Ed, you'll have to do a little better than >> that or find something else to vent your vinegar on. I'm trying to get >> informed responses that are _based on actual analysis_ of my pictures, Eds' response, >It is my personal opinion that a pixle is a pixle is a pixle. FYI- Mr Magoo The image of the disk on the jpeg that I posted consists of 24 pixels! If they all look like just (one) to you then it's time to have the old prescription checked or your software updated. <EG> I have better things to do than exchange cracks with you Ed, I got all that out of my system in the schoolyard years ago. Surprised that you're still 'stuck there!' If you just want to rag me the least you can do is try to be 'accurate' about it. "There is none so blind as he who will not see." Later Magoo. I won't be responding to any more from you, apparently your eyes only let you see what you want to see, and _not_ what is actually there. I need to communicate with folks whose vision is unimpaired by either natural causes or prejudice. Don't bother to get up Ed, it turns out that we won't be needing you anyway. Let the young un's with the good eyes, and the clear, uncluttered open minds have a crack at it. Your 'old broom' is kind of tattered, worn out, and just doesn't quite -get it- anymore. <G> "So you better learn to swim or you'll sink like a stone, cause the times they are a changin." (You know who whats-his-face Dylan) ;) John Velez John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 24 UK.UFO.NW irc guest Matthew Williams From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:45:22 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:42:07 -0400 Subject: UK.UFO.NW irc guest Matthew Williams UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK Saturday 27th September 1997 Special Guest - Matthew Williams UK.UFO.NW are very proud to announce that Matthew Williams will be answering your questions live in a moderated meeting taking place on the uk.ufo.nw IRC channel. Matthew Williams is a former civil servant who worked for HM Customs & Excise Criminal Investigations department who since his own UFO sighting, back in 1990, now investigates the UFO enigma full time. He has managed to get the MOD to unwittingly admit that they knew the whereabouts of UFO files which were listed missing - (which they secretly had hidden) - whilst at the same time they were spinning a web of untruths to public, press and MPs. He has also looked into the governments investigations of UFOs and had uncovered the amazing details of how one department, implicated in UFO investigations, operates from a super secret facility in Corsham, Wilts, UK which is housed underground in 35 miles of nuclear proof tunnels. Matthew has become a whistle blower on the existence of this base and a number of other secret bases. Matthew believes in direct action to expose bases and has been involved in some actions against bases in the UK. Connecting instructions and world times are below. The meeting will commence live at the following world times. This is not a definitive list. Times will vary depending on your part of the world. United Kingdom: 11pm Auckland: 10am (Sunday) Beijing: 6am (Sunday) Berlin: Midnight Cairo: 1am (Sunday) Colorado Springs: 4pm Hong Kong: 6am (Sunday) Jo'Burg: Midnight Las Vegas: 3pm Los Angeles: 3pm Moscow: 2am (Sunday) New Delhi: 4am (Sunday) New Orleans: 5pm New York: 6pm Paris: Midnight Perth: 7am (Sunday) Rio De Janeiro: 7pm Riyadh: 1am (Sunday) Rome: Midnight Singapore: 6am (Sunday) Sydney: 9am (Sunday) Tel Aviv: 1am (Sunday) Tokyo: 7am (Sunday) If you are using one of the dedicated IRC programs such as the excellent MIRC available free from: http://www.mirc.co.uk/index.html enter one of the below irc server addresses into your program. The nearer the server to your location the faster the connection. If one fails then try another. London.UK.EU.UltraNET.Org Belgrade.YU.EU.UltraNet.org Kalemegdan.YU.EU.UltraNet.org Singidunum.YU.EU.UltraNet.org Bor.YU.EU.UltraNet.org Zemun.YU.EU.UltraNet.org Channels.UltraNET.Org Uppsala.SE.EU.UltraNET.Org Hardanger.NO.EU.UltraNET.Org Uworld.UltraNET.Org Bergen.NO.EU.UltraNET.Org Neuilly.FR.EU.UltraNET.Org Hofors.SE.EU.UltraNET.Org Mons.BE.EU.UltraNET.Org Atlanta.GA.US.Ultranet.org Johnson-City.TN.US.UltraNet.Org Cleveland.OH.US.UltraNET.Org Once you are connected to a server join channel: #UFO You can also use your java compatible web browser to join in the meeting such as: Netscape 3 ++ or MS Internet Explorer 4 ++ By going to any of the below www addresses you will be automatically connected to the uk.ufo.nw IRC #UFO channel. All you have to do is supply a nickname when prompted. http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/ultrachat.html http://www.maygale.org/07/eyesonly http://www.geocities/Area51/Cavern/2646 http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/ultrachat.htm http://www.ultranet.org/webchat/ufo.html http://web.ukonline.co.uk/colin.light/ultrachat.htm http://web.ukonline.co.uk/phil.light http://www.ufo.grid9.net/ufo.html http://www.us.ultranet.org/webchat/ufo.html http://www.no.ultranet.org/webchat/ufo.html http://crowman.demon.co.uk/ultrachat.html -------------------------- ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk United Kingdom UFO Network http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk --------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:56:01 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:56:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:36:44 -0500 To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings >From: Chris Penrose <penrose@sfc.keio.ac.jp> >Date: Tue, 23 Sep 97 18:16:39 +0900 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings >>Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 02:49:35 -0500 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's > sightings >>I am re-posting a single frame capture from the videotape that I >>got. What I have here is a tad more than a "pinpoint" or mere >>"blotch." Hi Chris, hi All, Chris writes, >I have looked at the image and have made attempts to >recreate John's enhancements. I could not identically >repeat the enhancements, which does not invalidate the >enhancement at all. It is evident, and it would be >great if John could comment, that the JPEG video frame >that was posted to the list was not used for the >enhancement. Instead, the original scanned frame was >used before this lossy JPEG image was created. Is this >the case? The JPEG encoding artifacts are quite >prevalent in sfc-1july2697_.jpg. Try this on the images that I'm sending you Chris. Your results should be identical to mine upon completion. I got the single frame captures by digitizing the images using Avid Videoshop software. I then opened the raw single frame captures in Photoshop, and pushed the resolution to 600. Convert them to BMP's. BMP format maintains the integrity of whatever is in the original image (color etc.) while increasing resolution. To enlarge the image I marqueed around the area I wanted to blow up, made a copy of that area and created a new frame with just that area in it. to 'enlarge' I simply re-set the image size on the new copy to a larger format. Easy, and it doesn't screw with the integity of the original image. For enhancement I didn't mess with contrast at all. I marqueed around the enlarged image of the disc and then selected 'auto levels' and 'destaurate' from the Image menu. (In that order) "Auto levels"will automatically balance the contrast levels between the very brightest and darkest areas on the selected (marqueed) portion of the image. 'Desaturate' removes all of the color (unecessary information) and leaves you with a much easier to see gray scale image with much improved contrast. Let me know how you do Chris. >I used Adobe Photoshop 3.0 to repeat the enhancements. >John does not mention that he also employed contrast >modifications to obtain the enhanced image. When I >employed enlargement, desaturatation, and extreme >contrast, my reproduction began to look very similar to >John's enhancement. > >Would it be possible, John, to send a non-lossy format >version of the image, i.e. TIFF etc., via email to >interested scrutinizers such as myself, or leave it >at an ftp site? I have included the TIFF that you requested and a bonus! I want you to look at an odd single frame capture from later on in the same video. Tell me what you think. It looks like two (stacked) objects to me. Don't know what to make of it. Thanks again for your interest and support, it really is greatly appreciated. It's hard for me to do it all by myself,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings From: Chris Penrose <penrose@sfc.keio.ac.jp> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 97 18:17:30 +0900 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 05:59:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:35:43 -0700 From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings >Skippy is very much impressed with your power pixle, but he wanted me to >also make it clear that skippy too felt it was very thoughtful of you to >draw an arrow to it so that the power pixle would not be confused with >any one of the other 12,000+ pixles in the image. This is simply noise, Ed. It is plain hyperbole to deride the image John presented as simply agrandizing a single pixel. The object spans at least 25 neighboring pixels, and this is given the resolution of the image presented: 424 X 318. Also, your math is way off, there are134832 pixels in the image that John presented. It is possible, but John as not yet had a chance to comment, that the original scanned image may have even greater resolution. I am not sure of the the number of scan lines used in the video camera that John is using, but I do know that standard NTSC video translates directly to 640 X 480 in the digital realm. Also, it would be more informative if we had access to an image that was not stored in the lossy JPEG format. Better still, to have several consecutive frames of video footage. It is true that this "object" may be a video artifact, but this possibility diminishes if the object has indeed appeared on other frames in the video sample. I do have problems with John's claim that his embossing enhancements "prove" that the object being filmed is 3-dimensional. The technique has revealed some cues of seeming 3-dimensionality from the revelation of fine light gradations, but these cues may reflect media aberrations also. Again, the possibility of media aberations decreases dramtically if the object appears in similar form on adjacent video frames. Christopher Penrose penrose@sfc.keio.ac.jp
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Re: 'Rods'? From: "James A. Peters" <James_Peters@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 23:52:22 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 05:53:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Re: 'Rods'? >Date: Sun, 21 Sep 97 19:29:47 >From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Rods'? >James, >Thanks for your post. Maybe I am being too critical on >this rod thing... I now see that both you and Michael >Curta have obviously spent time in researching this >phenomenon... I was perhaps rude to everyone who I >posted my comments to.... Since I am in Denver too, I >should take some time and get together with you and >Michael... and Jose and Karen and see for myself. Is >this a topic at the MUFON meetings, or do you get >together with Jose and Karen elsewhere? Let me know >when you get together... maybe I'll tag along to learn >more... if I'm invited. <g> >Roger Hi Roger, I don't think you were being too critical. As I said, at one time they were concerns that I also had. Too many people, "rods" is a new subject. Or others have heard of rods but haven't heard what data has been accumulated since Jose first started talking to others about what he and Karen were finding. Either way its still a strange subject. Its hard to imagine a phenomena that could literally be in front of our eyes but not documented before. Michael Curta and I enjoy a relationship with Jose that allows us to critique the rod phenomena evidence and bounce it off of Jose and each other. Since Jose does live near Denver, he does speak occasionally at our state CO MUFON meetings which are public. I've spent most of my time analyzing the rod evidence in Jose's basement. Feel free to give me a call. E-mail me directly so we can exchange phone numbers. I'd be happy to introduce you to Jose or you can contact him directly. Laters, Jim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: ACC: A New And Very Interesting Twist From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:43:06 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 06:02:09 -0400 Subject: Re: ACC: A New And Very Interesting Twist I wrote: >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 00:58:13 +0200 >Subject: ACC: A New And Very Interesting Twist And Source >Of Information (snip) >As I was surfing the Internet yesterday, I found a message >that former New York Times journalist Ed Wang posted to the >message board of Close Encounters Of The WWW Kind on >August 14. As far as I know this is the first Web reference to >ACC's Roswell page, and it offers a so far unnoticed and very >interesting twist and source of information. (snip) >Here's the post. But first a word of caution. It isn't clear >whether the reference to the autopsy film is based on the >ex-AFOSI guy's information or Wang's own conclusion. >The URL is >http://www.skynet.co.uk/~miami/cgi-bin/bbs/messages/25.html (snip) >Have You Seen the Real Story Behind ROSWELL, YET, FOLKS? (snip) >http://www.american-computer.com >and >http://www.american-computer.com/roswell.htm (snip) >I have it on very good authority from an AF ex-OSI guy, that the >story depicted on these two pages, is materially true! >Now, get this, the Air Force thought the device which crashed >might be SOVIET in origin, and autopsied the bodies of its >occupants, to determine if they might have been some kind of >"radiation mutants". Hence, the autopsy footage, was part of a >President Truman ordered effort to determine if Josef Stalin, in >1947, had developed the technology found on board the >crashed craft. (snip) >Ed I have asked Ed for further information, but he told me in an e-mail that he has chosen to remain silent for the time being: "as a massive SLIME attack on this email account has prevented me from commenting further...I was receiving between 200 and 500 slimes SPAMMING me per day... It became impossible to deal with...Unfortunately, I have been mistaken for ACC, just because I used to post information about them, and tried to get people interested in it all. I do not wish to be confused for them." As those who have followed the case know, the American Computer Company met with the same thing. Ed continues: "I chose to remain silent and watch until such a time as I can do some good...But, trust me when I tell you, ACC knows what's going on and someone over there is trying to accomplish, in short order, what everyone in your community has been trying to accomplish for nearly 50 years. Why can't people get that and go along with it, without searching out hidden motives? I think ACC has broken a code of silence that corporate America erected in the 40's, that withstood time, and conquest, right up until the first week of August, 1997 when ACC did what it did. I don't think the TRUSTS were ready for it, it caught them off guard, and now, its too late to go burying it in the sand again... pardon the pun, at least for a while. We all don't realize just how powerful some companies are... you know?"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #183 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 06:53:11 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 07:08:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #183 Apology to MW #183 (For 24 September, 1997) It's GRAND that Ted Turner could give-up a billion! It's just what's been needed from liberal camps. Now don't go all twitchy, and sullen, or bitchy From *Classical Liberal*, even Newt gives his stamps! And good that the strings of endowment are loose! He gives it up to others, free and clear. And don't make me dribble, or descend to the quibble. But a vote for diversity, did he pay for, and steer. He's a better man than I am, 'cause he takes off any strings. He depends on brother humans we paint statesmen. Now, I'm sure there's made concessions and Ted'll keep unique possessions. But, he's surely been a liberal culture's friend. But give me that weird billion from the where-with-all to give. And I'd tack it to what I was thinking, better <g>! Where _is_ imagination -- guys like Turner miss the station. I would tack it so specific to a goal of golden letters. Here's a billion for a city on a near-earth-orbit asteroid! Or, here's a billion for a city built in space. Here's a billion for a factory, it's magic's in refractory We use to make a heaven for a human humane race. Money that ain't tagged gets spent the quickest. A billion spent on office space dividers. Use yourself as an example, we're all a pretty sample; Idle cash is just an ice cube tray of spiders. I heard a rumor wonderful in complex, and design. That cost our William Gates *one third* he had. A slew of low earth satellites makes communication super bright -- A communication wonderland, efficacious, true and glad. And he could do it out of pocket, such a juice to our economy. He could do it, and be trifled NOT ONE BIT! So what's this weak palaver that he's waiting 'till cadavered? That's got to be the biggest load of shit=85 Don't be thinking grand, Bill, with direct links to the source. You were standing where you were with luck to thank. A dweeby little kid with an *interest* paid off big Like me, and you can _take_ that to your bank. Don't forget the small ones that have toiled to heat your water. Try a classic liberal point of view. It's too easy to forget, and you could feel the cruel regret. If you didn't see us _all_ as valid crew. Lehmberg@snowhill.com Bill, dude=85 don't go all Charles Foster Kane on us=85 give it up! The only thing you lose is the rest of us giving you weird looks because you are obviously not holding up _your_ end. Remember the people that are heating your water! Failing that, will you tell us what "Rosebud" means before you die? Does it mean -- tightwad? Bill, give _me_ a billion, so I can colonize a near earth asteroid! Use some imagination, and reflection -- talk to Spider Robinson, or anybody who knew Ted Sturgeon. Tell NASA what you want to do, be specific, and let them give you a price. Come down from there <g>. Fund it. Can you see it in your minds eye; the colonization of Earth's most threatening near orbit asteroid? How we could steer that thing around in inky space like a Nile barge=85 Of the unparalleled riches of the place eventually in rare metals; a displaced microcosm of the twenty-first century with the valuable capability to fly that twenty-first century right back down to you in the event of some very real earthly disaster=85? You could buy that right NOW! C'mon Bill, give me _one_ billion of your 38 (THIRTY EIGHT!!!). I'll insist they put _your_ name on it. -- Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake before he became unstoppable =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" Personal HARASSMENT; however, the harassment index is infinite for each of us. Consider the fruit rotting on the tree.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Bryant Requests Grand Jury Investigation Of From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:52:06 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 07:09:50 -0400 Subject: Bryant Requests Grand Jury Investigation Of Found on Ufomind's 'What's New' page http://www.ufomind.com/new/currrent under 'September 23' in the 'Ufomind Mailing List' section. URL for this item: http://www.ufomind.com/misc/1997/sep/d23-005.shtml *** Bryant Requests Grand Jury Investigation of Corso's Claims From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:57:28 -0800 - From: DPinchas@aol.com Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 23:39:07 -0400 (EDT) To: webmaster@ufomind.com Subject: Letter from Larry Bryant Mr. Campbell, Larry Bryant asked me to send you the attached letter to be posted on his page in ufomind. He'd like to encourage other people to follow his example and write to their local U.S. attorney demanding a grand jury to examine the Corso claims. Please post this file accordingly. If you have any trouble with the file, please let me know. Thanks, Dan Pinchas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3518 Martha Custis Drive Alexandria, VA 22302 September 10, 1997 U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia - Alexandria Division 2100 Jamieson Avenue Alexandria, VA 22314 Dear Sir: As a resident of the city of Alexandria, I ask that you proceed immediately with the empaneling of a special federal grand jury to examine and report on the revelations of one U.S. Army Lt. Col. (Ret.) Philip J. Corso, co-author of The Day After Roswell (Pocket Books, New York: 1997). Those revelations -- mainly, that certain technological artifacts retrieved by U.S. Army authorities from one or more crash-landed "flying saucers" during the late forties - early fifties were seeded to private-industry R&D projects by Corso and the late Lt. Gen. Arthur G. Trudeau -- contradict the long-standing official U.S. military contention that no such extraterrestrial intervention/exploitation ever existed. Clearly, either Corso is lying or the pertinent government agency is. That agency (or group of agencies) has no right to lie to the public; but the public has a right to know the truth about the aftermath of Roswell and other cases of retrieved alien spacecraft/occupants. In order to pursue that quest for the truth about "The Ultimate Secret" -- and thus hold accountable any federal official who would perpetuate such deception of the public -- the requested grand jury should exercise its subpoena power to - -- Examine Corso's relevant documentation and sworn testimony; -- Discover what official records still exist as to the Army's harvesting of alien technology; * -- Produce the original "medical examiner's report" made on the retrieved alien bodies; * -- Summon other Corso-type whistleblowers to submit their evidence/testimony for the record (at least one of whom, I understand, is waiting in the wings for the right opportunity to come forward); ** -- Call for the testimony and other evidence of those former and current officials deemed to have been in the best position of knowing how much veracity lies behind Corso's claims. The history of tracking what our government knows, and when it knew it, about alien encounters bears many pockmarks of lost opportunities. Let's not add another one by failing to activate this "people's panel" that by its reporting function can expose and defuse what may well be the greatest violation of the public trust ever committed. Please let me know your proposed date for the grand jury's empanelment. Larry W. Bryant FOOTNOTES: * Notes from the enclosed letter-to-the-editor that my June 19, 1997, FOIA request for some of these records still is being stonewalled by the Army. ** Also note the need for protecting these prospective whistleblowers from official reprisal -- especially in light of Corso's co-author's assertion that Pocket Books recently yielded to official pressure to withdraw Sen. Strom Thurmond's foreword from future reprints of the book. The grand jury should investigate this pressure tactic (called "political blackmail" by co-author William J. Birnes) and determine what law its perpetrators may have violated. Copies furnished to: Chief Judge, U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia - Alexandria Division President, Pocket Books Philip J. Corso Index: Larry Bryant Index: Philip Corso Mothership -> Ufomind Mailing List -> 1997 -> Sep -> Here Our Original Text Copyrighted =A9 1994-97 Area 51 Research Center PO Box 448, Rachel, NV 89001. Glenn Campbell, Webmaster This site is supported by the Research Center Bookstore Please visit our business if you appreciate our free web services. Send us corrections using this Feedback Form or email webmaster@ufomind.com This page: http://www.ufomind.com/misc/1997/sep/d23-005.shtml =BF(9/24/97 9:09) * *** ***** ******* =BF*********=BF Created: Sep 23, 1997
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: ACC: MAKE IT STOP From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 18:04:13 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 07:11:02 -0400 Subject: Re: ACC: MAKE IT STOP >From: XianneKei@aol.com [Rebecca Keith] >Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 00:28:23 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: ACC: MAKE IT STOP >'nuff said! >Rebecca I hereby urge Bob Wolf and others to continue researching this issue, which is the most interesting developing story at the moment. Finally some people - Jack Shulman and Co. - have the balls to lay the whole Roswell affair on the plates of the highest in authority in the USA and pursue this matter with the vigor it deserves. 'nuff said! __________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Technology Pages http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp \______________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:15:48 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 07:13:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings > Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:04:54 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings John Velez uttered the following wisdom regarding the state of ufology which prompted me to immerse myself into contemporary ufological wisdom as practiced in the ever changing tumbling world of modern day vocal ufological true believers preoccupied with the belief that the UFO phenomenon is centered over their heads, where they live, in their immediate neighborhood, and everything else is a waste of time: > Archives, dusty files, and dusty cases are the passtimes > of dusty old men who can no longer get their flattened > asses out of an armchair, and rightfully so. In other words, in John Velez's infinite ufological wisdom the implication is that the UFO problem has already been solved and everybody can stop their research projects, especially if those projects involve searching through the original documents and case files re-evaluating if they support the present day myth of what they are allegedly purported to indicate through the myriad of interpretations we have been subjected to through various authors and their interpretations of the data. John Velez continued in his ufological wisdom to say: > But if a > rash of unidentified aircraft sightings over New York > can't even get a squeak out of the rest, then this _is_ > a dead end field. In other words, if you don't pay attention to my pixels and the "truth" they represent don't bother with anything else. The point that John Velez in his ufological wisdom is missing is that the only real examination that can be done on his footage is to release the original video to someone who has access to all of the advanced equipment necessary to analyze his pixels and his willing to do it. His request for examination of his jpeg image of a single frame capture as posted on the internet and to this mailing list is simply posturing on his part. No real examination can be made from the jpeg image. Consequently, his motivation lies elsewhere. It appears to me that John Velez is simply a malcontent unhappy with the degree of attention he is getting lately and anyone else's research efforts trying to get a better understanding of what is/is not part of the UFO problem be damned if that effort is not centered over the skies of Queens. John Velez continued with his infinite ufological wisdom: > I have better things to do than exchange cracks with > you Ed, I got all that > out of my system in the schoolyard years ago. Surprised that > you're still > 'stuck there!' If you just want to rag me the least you can do > is try to be > 'accurate' about it. > "There is none so blind as he who will not see." > Later Magoo. I won't be responding to any more from you, > apparently your > eyes only let you see what you want to see, and _not_ what is > actually > there. I need to communicate with folks whose vision is > unimpaired by > either natural causes or prejudice. Don't bother to get up Ed, > it turns out > that we won't be needing you anyway. Let the young un's with > the good eyes, > and the clear, uncluttered open minds have a crack at it. Your >'old broom' > is kind of tattered, worn out, and just doesn't quite -get it- > anymore. <G> > "So you better learn to swim or you'll sink like a stone, > cause the times > they are a changin." (You know who whats-his-face Dylan) ;) And that's the way it is: Wednesday, the 24th of September, 1997. What started as a bit of generalized ad hominem ufological wisdom by John Velez towards researchers that are still digging through original unexpurgated material regarding contemporary research efforts, ends in a bit of specific ad hominem ufological wisdom by John Velez regarding his visions of the future of ufological research that will apparently only be conducted by those whose minds will have been "cleared, opened and uncluttered". What are we to call this future in UFO research? BORG Ufology? Don't bother to verify first hand if what we have been told by the myriad of books on the UFO subject was ever accurate or not, or representative of objective facts or subjective opinions from the authors. Don't bother to access the original files, case materials and archival documents where they exist. They will just confuse, close and clutter your minds. After all, there is a new wave of young ufologists just hitching for your attention. They will lead you down the road to ufological "truth", and if you don't like it - you to will be assimilated. Ed Stewart ps. due to unavoidable circumstances beyond the immediate control of the author, Mr. Magoo was unable to navigate through the keyboard in time to answer John Velez's ad hominem comments directed at him. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart egs@netcom.com | So Man, who here seems principal alone, There is Something | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Going On! ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, Salvador Freixedo ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. --------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man -------
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Cincinnati Airship Puzzler, 1897 From: Kenny Young <task@fuse.net> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:45:30 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 07:15:04 -0400 Subject: Cincinnati Airship Puzzler, 1897 Cincinnati Airship Puzzler, 1897 The following information was located by Cynthia Keller of the Cincinnati Historical Society, who ran across the 100-year old newspaper account while researching for her weekly column in the May 2, 1997 "EVERYBODY'S NEWS," a weekly Cincinnati-based newspaper. T.A.S.K. offers special thanks to Ms. Keller who assisted us in the retrieval of this newspaper article. __________________________________________________________________ The Cincinnati Enquirer May 5, 1897 "AIRSHIP" Said To Have Been Seen Passing Over This City Last Night A number of people on Garfield Place saw the airship last night about 9 o'clock, and are willing to make affidavit that they have sighted the mysterious navigator that has been creating so much excitement over the country. Dr. Louis Domhoff, 112 Garfield Place, made a drawing of the light, which he describes as egg-shaped, red in color and appearing as though a portion of it was covered with a curtain, the rays escaping in the center and at each end. It came from the direction of Price Hill and passed to a southeasterly direction, disappearing in about five minutes, and, so far as he was able to approximate, covered a distance of about 20 miles in that time, moving in a zigzag course, first up, then down. Conductor J.C. Gaupel, on the Monmouth street car line, also saw it. W.J. Klein, attorney in the Mitchell Building, and Fred Porter, of the Methodist Book Concern, and a number of others say they saw and watched the curious aeronaut. End of article -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ___________ ________ ________ ____ ___ * * /__ ____/ / __ ) ( ____/ / // / * * / / / /__| | \ \ / < * * / / / ____ | ___\ \ / /\ \ * * /___/ /___/ |___| /_______) /___/ \___\ * * * * http://home.fuse.net/task/ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "Investigation without predisposition." T.A.S.K. - Tri-State Advocates for Scientific Knowledge -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ___________ ________ ________ ____ ___ * * /__ ____/ / __ ) ( ____/ / // / * * / / / /__| | \ \ / < * * / / / ____ | ___\ \ / /\ \ * * /___/ /___/ |___| /_______) /___/ \___\ * * * * http://home.fuse.net/task/ *
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: ACC's VP responds to George Fergus From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 19:46:45 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 07:17:05 -0400 Subject: Re: ACC's VP responds to George Fergus >Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:22:35 -0700 >From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) >To: Updates@globalserve.net >Subject: ACC's VP responds to George Fergus Hi all, It seems to me this transistor discussion is becoming so technical that most people have a hard time understanding it all. Furthermore, I am observing some aspects that are irrelevant and can be left out of the discussion to focus on the important issues. This reaction to a post by George Fergus appeared to come from Jack Shulman. I understood that he is president of ACC, not vice-president. I haven't seen an ACC employee called 'John' before, so I assume it's the same guy as Jack, who has represented ACC before in this debate. >The following is MY OPINION, alone: > >NOTE: Mr. Fergus is a Motorola Employee, according to his email >address. Motorola is an AT&T Company and makes the commercial versions >of AT&T's Products and is the OUTGROWTH of the Innovere project >created by Bell Labs and AT&T Microelectronics. It is a forefunner >venture to today's Lucent technologies. They had written several >letters to us by EMAIL that we are having a hard time believing. Ask >him to publish our responses to his allegations. > I have been following the information technology industry for 15 years now, in the last five years as a journalist, and I never heard or read anything that suggests that Motorola is an AT & T company. Motorola has been around for a long time as an independent company and has been listed as such on one of the American stock exchanges. The US military used Motorola's wireless radio's before WW II. Its main products are wireless commmunication devices and computer chips. Yes, Motorola can have AT & T patents and could see the claims of ACC as a threat to its business. This could motivate Mr. Fergus' rebuttal. >NOTE: According to the Department of Physics at a Major University: >The BELL TRANSISTOR EFFECT is different than the physics of the High >Back Voltage Rectifier, in spite of the apparent misdirection we >previously received from Mr. Fergus, by Email, claiming that >everything from the High Back Voltage Rectifier to the Silicon Diode >to the Germanium Diode to the Point Contact Diode were, in fact, the >Transistor. Diodes are certainly not transistors. They make direct current from alternating current. This is called rectifying. Transistors however are weird devices that amplify current. The strange thing is that they do this through a combination of three diodes that work together. This amplification effect, also called transistor effect, cannot intuitively be predicted from the rectifying effect of the individual diode. The amplification effect was needed to replace the then popular vacuum tube. The question is: where did this insight come from? . profound insight in micro electronics combined with chance invention. Version: AT & T . alien device that provided the missing link between available knowledge and the desired amplification effect. Germanium was replaced by silicon and silicon was doped with boron to achieve an impurity in the silicon in order to conduct current. Version ACC. >None of what Mr. Fergus wrote to us, appears to be anything but >conjecture, as documents from 1949 and before can not be bonafide'd as >to their authenticity at this time, particularly not the one about the >NRDC - and it does not appear likely, here's why: >If the "Fergus" disclosure was published in 1945, then the BELL >TRANSISTOR was in the PUBLIC DOMAIN ALLREADY and would not have >qualified for patenting, as BELL WOULD HAVE WAIVED ITS RIGHTS if it >published its work without a patent or if it came from some other >source - THEN THAT SOURCE DESERVES THE RECOGNITION and Bell Labs a >LEMON for having stolen the TRANSISTOR, in 1945. Clearly, documents presented by James Easton and others show that there is an official history of the transistor covering the 1930s/ 1940s timeline. However, I have yet to see a document or interview transcript with the inventors of the transistor themselves that covers the 1945/December 1947 timeline in some detail. >Ergo, I am of the opinion it was all smoke intended to hide one of two >deceptions: >a) Either the Transistor was in the public domain and Bell didn't >invent it and wasn't entitled to patent it and should be compelled to >return illegally gotten profits to the American People and the US >Government, and companies raped by Bell Labs lawsuits over the ensuing >decades; or >b) The Transistor was the result of "outside contact with a more >advanced species", AND Didn't belong to Bell Labs in the first place, >hence, Bell should be compelled to return illegally gotten profits to >the American People and the US Government, and companies raped by Bell >Labs lawsuits over the ensuing decades. >The third explanation: That despite alleged publishings in 1945 >(according to George Fergus of Motorola) that the Transistor had >already been developed, Bell Labs, in 1947, announced in December it >had invented it at that time, and filed its first patent, three years >after the NRDC placed the concepts into the Public Domain. Somehow, >this just does not seem real likely. >I suppose George Fergus will, as he has with us, try to argue back >(from the pen of an AT&T or Motorola counsel) that these facts >regarding a Patent are arguable, but frankly, the underlying premise >that RCA, PHILIPS, GE, MARCONI, SARNOFF, SYLVANIA, EMERSON, ZENITH, >HONEYWELL, IBM, UNIVAC, DR. WANG, ECKART AND MAUCKLEY, and all the >other electronics and research companies in the US and elsewhere >ignored the NRDC disclosure of the details of a TRANSISTOR in 1945, >for three and a half years, giving Bell Labs its opportunity to patent >the most significant device of our Century, ISN'T EVEN BELIEVABLE. Shulman is obviously right when he expresses his disbelief that AT & T and AT & T alone could make the jump from Germanium diodes to the Silicon transistor, leaving the abovementioned companies far behind it. Sure, AT & T's Bell Laboratories had a record of interesting inventions in 1945. But so had these other companies. One more note here about Unix. In one of their interviews ACC has postulated that the computer operating system Unix could be derived from alien technology as well. On the face of it, this is a real stretch. What ACC hopefully means is that out of the transistor came the microchip, out of the microchip came the PDP computer that used Unix as its operating system. This way there would be an indirect link with alien technology, albeit a very indirect one. Operating systems are clearly not rocket science, since many came into existence in the same time frame as Unix, like MVS, VM and DOS. Furthermore, computers always had operating systems, even before Unix. Taking it all together, it seems to me we still need more data. I hope ACC's initiative to involve the US Secretary of Defense, the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Pentagon amounts to something, if only to get cooperation from those entities in this investigation, that could produce other results as well. __________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Technology Pages
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 {81} part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 20:39:05 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 07:30:39 -0400 Subject: {81} part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network ______ _______ ____ ------ / / // ____// |---------------------------------------------- U K / / // ___/ / / ' Sept 25th, 1997 / / // / / / / N E T W O R K part 1 Issue 81 --- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------ The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with subscribers in over 40 countries. This issue comes in 3 parts. If any part is missing please mail: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject section e.g. Repost {81} part 1, part 2 or part 3. In this issue: Stop Press ---------- Matthew Williams and Stanton T. Friedman Editorial --------- Dan Sherman - Real Audio interview United Kingdom News ------------------- [UK 1] Michael Lindemann on the UK-UFO-NW IRC #UFO Channel [UK 2] Sights set on UFO awareness agenda (Solihull) [UK 3] UFO swoops on lorry driver (Burton on Trent, Staffs) World News ---------- [W 1] Seven new asteroids could threaten Earth [W 2] Stealth jet crashes during air show near Baltimore [W 3] Pat Robertson says kill all UFO believers [W 4] A remarkable gaffe A FEARFUL SYMMETRY by D. Lynne Bishop ------------------------------------- Part 4 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Stop Press ---------- Following on from our interview of Michael Lindemann of CNI News (see below) on the UK.UFO.NW irc channel we would like to announce the following. Saturday 27th September - Matthew Williams (UK ufologist) Saturday 4th October - Stanton T. Friedman (Canadian ufologist) Full details of guests, dates and irc joining instructions have been sent to subscribers in a recent separate mail. However if you would like a copy of the mail please send to:ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk With: REQUEST GUEST INFO - in the subject line. Editorial --------- Dan Sherman - Real Audio interview Readers will remember the very interesting article in the last issue {80} of the e-zine regarding Dan Sherman. This week we received the below mail from Dan: --- To: <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Subject: Project Preserve Destiny Date sent: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 Thanks so much for your positive words. I just came across your document. I'm not even sure what it is, but I'd like to be on your mailing list if I could. You may want to let your readers know where they can get my book. It's at the below listed webpage. Again, thanks for the positive words and staying on top of "the latest" in good info. I may be doing Art Bell soon. Stay tuned! Regards... Dan Sherman --- We have asked Dan if he would be willing to do an IRC interview with us. We'll hopefully have his answer next issue. We would like to remind you of where you can get hold of the Real Audio interview when Dan was recently interviewed on Jeff Rense's 'Sightings On The Radio' show in the USA. We highly recommend that you listen to this. To do this you will need the ever-popular Real Audio player. This is a free download from: http://www.realaudio.com/ http://www.real.co.uk/ To listen to the interview in real time while on-line point your web browser at: http://www.audionet.com/shows/endoftheline/9708/end0806.ram If you wish to download the files for later playback, they can be obtained from: http://www.ukonline.co.uk/uk-ufo-nw/sounds/dan_pt1.ra http://www.ukonline.co.uk/uk-ufo-nw/sounds/dan_pt2.ra http://www.ukonline.co.uk/uk-ufo-nw/sounds/dan_pt3.ra http://www.ukonline.co.uk/uk-ufo-nw/sounds/dan_pt4.ra dan_pt1.ra - 2.155kb dan_pt2.ra - 1.948kb dan_pt3.ra - 1.856kb dan_pt4.ra - 1.165kb Details of Dan's book "ABOVE BLACK - Project Preserve Destiny, Insider Account of Alien Contact and Government Cover-Up" can be obtained from his web site at: http://www.earthworld.com/ppd Back issues of the e-zine can be downloaded from: http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk [UK 1]****** Michael Lindemann on the UK-UFO-NW IRC #UFO Channel This is a cleaned up log, of the United Kingdom UFO Network Saturday 20th September 1997 IRC meeting on #UFO with guest Michael Lindemann. Michael kindly gave up a couple of hours of his spare time to answer some questions for the visitors to the channel. Below you will find a list of questions that were asked along with Michaels replies. The name in between the < >'s e.g. is the nick name of the IRC user asking the question and where you see <CNIMikeL> is of course the start of Michael's reply. CREDITS: We would like to thank Dave_UFO for arranging this meeting with Michael Lindemann. We would like to thank Michael for attending this meeting and answering the questions put to him. We would like to thank all the people involved in asking questions. We would like to thank everyone who attended this meeting. This meeting was moderated by Crow and Raine <CNIMikeL> um, it appears that I've just gone thru a dimensional shift *** Crow changes topic to "Michael Lindemann please direct your questions to Crow or Raine and not the guest speaker. Channel #ufo2 open for debate" <Dave_UFO> Just a reminder....Will all operators who wish to ask Mike a question, please message Crow & Raine first.... <Dave_UFO> Hello everyone. Thank you for visiting us here on the uk.ufo.nw UFO irc channel. We are honoured to introduce our very special guest tonight: Michael Lindemann. Michael is a world-respected ufologist and editor of the excellent and very popular CNI News internet magazine. He is also resident UFO/ET commentator on the nationally syndicated American radio program "Sightings On The Radio". CNI News is a twice-monthly electronic subscription newsletter addressing UFO phenomena, claims of human-alien contact, space exploration and related issues, including the cultural and political impacts of contact with other intelligent life. CNI News is edited by Michael Lindemann and distributed by the 2020 Group. Michael on behalf of us all here may I say "welcome". To start with can you tell us a little about yourself. <CNIMikeL> Thank you Dave, and on behalf of myselves may I say Glad to be here :-) <CNIMikeL> Well. you covered some basic points. <CNIMikeL> Let me say I'm not a UFO experiencer, as far as I know. <CNIMikeL> that is, the appearance of government interest and coverup, which first came to my attention. <CNIMikeL> I started a serious study of this topic from the political angle... in 1989. Since then, I've been pretty much full time on this, but of course some of you in the room have been at it a lot longer. go ahead <Crow> ok first question <Moonwatch> I would like to ask Michael Lindermann if he feels that ufo abductions follow families that is when it happens to a parent when they are young then does it seem to follow the family and also happen to that parents children and so on and so on! <CNIMikeL> Moorwatch, the simple answer is yes... <CNIMikeL>But it is not clear why this would be so. <CNIMikeL>It seems to indicate or strengthen the assumption that there must be a long-running genetic program of some kind. But, to be cynical, we could also say that this particular delusion might run in families as well. I don't mean that to be snide. I do mean to suggest that I myself am not entirely sure what "abduction" really is. And I've queried a great many researchers on this, as well as abductees, and I find that, when pressed for a clear answer... most of them are very reticent to say precisely what abduction really is. I do know that it is something very important, and that it is "real" in the sense of "really happening, in an objective way"... to apparently sane and competent people. It also, as you say, seems to run in families. It is a very large mystery. go ahead <Benat2> Question for Michael: Before 1989 did you ever give any of this much thought? <CNIMikeL> Benat, I did not. It was no more than a subject of entertainment for me... I was as enthralled by films like "Close Encounters" as anyone, I suppose... but prior to 1989 it did not occur to me that this subject was real. go ahead <Avenger> I would like to know if he researched cattle mutilations and if he has any speculated reason for why the Aliens do them. <CNIMikeL> Avenger, I have not personally examined mutilated animals... but I have spent a great deal of time talking with Linda Howe... and others about this phenomenon. There is, again, no doubt that it occurs,... and no doubt that it is highly anomalous, and no doubt that it SOMETIMES... seems associated with UFO and alien activity. That said, I can only speculate... as to why this would be done, and frankly, I don't find ANY of the speculations very convincing. BUT... the one I like best is: cattle make a very good guage of environmental pollution. The lips/tongue measure what pollutants go in, the organs measure what pollutants are absorbed, the anus measures what pollutants are excreted. It's an interesting way to conduct these measurements. go ahead <Hideout> Does Mike mind telling us if he has ever seen the alleged Alien Artefact Deryl Sims has, that has featured recently on CNI's WWW site, and would he like to tell us what it was like. <CNIMikeL> Hideout, I have not seen that particular artefact with my own eyes. <CNIMikeL> go ahead <stu7> I wasn't clear on a point... you said you had not had personal ufo experiences... so what got you involved in reporting on them ? <CNIMikeL> Stu, I started as a political analyst with a lot of background in US govt secrecy, especially regarding nuclear weapons. It became obvious to me, from the moment I took a serious look, that there are "official secrets' about UFOs. I did not know what those secrets were, or why the should be kept... but I was highly intrigued that they had been kept so successfully for so long. That said to me that there must be a VERY large agenda operating. So, I was hooked by that, I guess. go ahead <Vadir> Question: Whats your opinion on crop circles, do you think there is any link at all? <CNIMikeL> Vadir, the link between crop circles and UFOs is not clear to me. I do think that SOME circles (formations) are highly anomalous... but I I'm also well aware that a distubing number are hoaxed. I would be VERY interested in the perspective of those of you in the UK on this. go ahead <Dave_UFO> What are your feelings and thoughts about Dan Sherman who was interviewed recently on 'Sightings On The Radio' and who is the author of a new book 'Above Black'. Dan Sherman (who tells a fascinating story) talks about his days in the US Air Force where he was involved in Project Preserve Destiny ? <CNIMikeL> Well, Dave, you asked my feelings... I try to keep my feelings out of this, if possible.... And I don't know very much about Dan Sherman except what he told Jeff... so I'm not prepared to comment. His story falls into the "deep dark conspiracy" side of our subject -- I'm not saying that might not be true, it very well MIGHT be true, but I have nothing to go on except his word, for now. go ahead <color> What types of government interest have you found regarding the abductees and people who have an interest in ufos or are people who have a ufo sighting? what role is the government playing in these areas? <CNIMikeL> Well, color, there is VERY DEFINITELY a large and deeply covert govt interest in this... It is frankly infuriating, at this late stage, that we must still be treated like idiots for saying this... SO MANY military figures and similar people now attest to the reality of UFO encounters, there is just no doubt at all that these events are.... occurring, and in great numbers, in many parts of the world. I discuss the "need for secrecy" with many other researchers... the consensus, for the most part, is tending toward the idea that there must be something perceived to be "very bad" in the UFO phenomenon itself -- not just in the possible public reaction and so forth... it's as Philip Corso said in his recent book -- the military has assumed from the beginning that UFOs represented a possibly hostile power. Much as I would prefer to believe otherwise, I'm convinced that those who've managed the secrecy side do think there is legitimate danger represented by UFOs. go ahead <ChromeB> what's your opinion on the fake Nasa moon landing conspiracy theories? <CNIMikeL> Chrome -- I am as sure as I can be that we did go to the moon in 1969 and thereafter. Those landings were not faked. However, it is just barely possible that some of the publicity shots were faked. I'm not sure about that. go ahead <UFatO> Have you any idea as to why the government is keeping the alien issue such a secret, any idea at all? <CNIMikeL> UFatO, as I said a moment ago... this is really a very significant and mysterious thing... I'm persuaded that "they" really do think there is genuine danger in the UFO phenomenon. Let me share an idea given me by another researcher who, unlike myself, is very much an experiencer as well... He said he feels that public interest creates a certain kind of psychic opening which... enables alien forces to access the earth in greater strength. He thinks that dissuading humans from feeling open about ET contact.... is actually a purposeful effort at defending the earth from incursion. I cannot vouch for this idea, but it struck me as highly intriguing. go ahead <Typhoon> what do you think about the footage from the NASA Space Shuttle missions, especially STS-80; has there been an official comment from NASA regarding this footage? I mailed the webmaster of the NASA's official STS-80 site, and all I got was some standard answer: "NASA has not seen anything in any of its on-orbit footage or photographs that would indicate an extraterrestrial spacecraft. I've seen the footage you refer to and believe the anomalous object is just a piece of debris." <CNIMikeL> Yes, well, NASA is obliged, I believe, to toe a certain party line on this. STS-80 has been evaluated by a number of U.S. experts, and I must say that they seem less impressed by that than they were by STS-48... As for STS-48, I have to agree with many others (more knowledgeable than I in this regard) that it shows every sign of being something... highly anomalous. Does NASA know or suspect that there are other intelligent forces at play in near space? I would have to say yes to that. go ahead <Dave_UFO> Michael I passed a recent letter onto you from a Chris Arnold who said that he was at Bentwaters in 1980. Your were good enough to pass it onto Salley Rayl for further investigation. Do you have any further details you can relate to us ? <CNIMikeL> Yes, Dave, while I'm not ready to make a definitive statement on Chris Arnold, I would say that his testimony does little to undermine the basic importance of the Bentwaters/Woodbridge events of Dec 1980. It is not clear, first of all, that he is commenting on the same set of days and events that others (Halt, Penniston et al) have talked about... It is simply impossible for me to believe that Halt was (a) so totally mistaken about what he himself observed and/or (b) "in it for the money," as Arnold implies... I would have to say, tentatively, that Arnold's testimony is not valid. go ahead <HarryD> Mister Lindemann ..I would like to ask you if you are familiar with the Billy Meier case ...and if so ...what is your opinion on it. (Btw I know Billy Meier personally and once when visiting him saw a IFO ;) flying by at 200 or 300 meters distance!) <CNIMikeL> Harry, this is the kind of question that can start a fist fight... :-) I find the Meier case to be highly mysterious and intriguing. As one US researcher once said, if Billy really faked all the pictures, that is almost more impressive than beamships from the Pleaides... I am absolutely sure that some of the photos are fakes... But I am NOT sure that they are all fakes. I think Meier has become something of a legend in his own mind... and that he has felt obliged to maintain an air of mystery and importance all out of proportion with what actually happened to him... but, I think maybe he did see some extraordinary UFOs in 1975-76. There. I hope that doesn't start any fist fights. go ahead <HarryD> my sighting was in 1991 mr Lindeman !!!! <CNIMikeL> Harry -- I do not mean to suggest that your sighting was not valid! I wouldn't be at all surprised if there are many unusual sightings in the Swiss Alps, as there have been in many other mountainous regions of the world. <Dave_UFO> Michael please take a rest whenever you feel like it. <CNIMikeL> Dave, I would be please to hear some other people's remarks on some of these topics as well! <Crow> sure Michael we can give people a voice if you want to get involved with that question a bit more. <ChromeB> Do you know much about N.W.O? New World Order.... plus the Committee of 300? Secret governments etc and their purposes? <CNIMikeL> You see, one can hardly bring up Billy Meier without bringing up strong opinions and feelings.... anyway... About New World Order... These three words have an enormous amount of different meanings and implications, depending on the level of your analysis. On one level, there is no doubt that a New World Order is being created -- this has to do with the global consolidation of power. Some of the people doing this are genuinely of the belief that it is good for the bulk of humanity... However, I confess to suspecting that some proportion of the most powerful people on earth see in the New World Order a kind of "final solution" to certain intractable problems -- the problem of ethnic variations, the problem of poverty, the problem of population growth, etc... this "final solution" has to do with a guided collapse of global infrastructure... It will have the appearance of a gradual and accidental disaster, but in my opinion it will be the furthest thing from that. I always hasten to add that this is not inevitable... and not everyone involved in creating the NWO wants to see this occur. So... the outcome is not certain. But the forces at in play, and the outcome becomes more inevitable with every passing day, as long as most political forces in the world are essentially deadlocked. Indeed, the creation of political deadlock is not an accident either -- it was a very clever construct for the purpose of making eventual collapse more likely. For the moment, this is what I see happening. go ahead <TopGun> Do you think that the MJ-12 group is/was real? and what do you think of Mr. Friedman ? <CNIMikeL> Topgun, something like MJ-12 must have been real... though not necessarily by that name... Something like MJ-12 must still be in operation, almost certainly not by that name... Stanton Friedman is a very dedicated researcher. His work on legitimising the basic reality of UFO phenomena, and his work on... demonstrating the fact of government cover-up, will be seen in years to come as among the most significant efforts of his generation of researchers. I hold him in very high regard. go ahead. <JeroenW> Mike, you said you have never seen a UFO? (Same with me by the way). What is your overall opinion on the subject of UFOs (Are they ET propelled vehicles or "just" naturally occurring phenomenon? <CNIMikeL> Jeroen, I am strongly of the opinion that SOME ufos are highly anomalous aircraft or spacecraft... Many sightings are simply mistaken identity of some kind... but those that are witnessed by several high quality witnesses, that are close up, that leave trace evidence, etc... these cannot be dismissed at all. There is no doubt in my mind that these ufos are "somebody's aircraft" go ahead <Raine> <martha-> What is most exciting thing happening in ufology today? <CNIMikeL> Martha, for me, the most exciting this is the confluence of many kinds of evidence toward the building of a rock-certain case for the... reality of visitation by other intelligent beings. This confluence includes the testimony of people like Philip Corso, the discovery of planets around other stars, the new theoretical work in physics that shows... that "faster than light speed" is NOT impossible, the likelihood of at least rudimentary life even on other planets in our own solar system not to mention other stars... When all this is added together with the continuing array of impressive UFO cases, we see a pattern so robust that eventually... there will be no possibility of official denial any longer. That day has not yet arrived, but it is coming. go ahead <color> Have you come across any cases where the normal citizen who sighted a ufo is a source of government interest? <CNIMikeL> It's hard to say, color... I am aware of several people who have been harassed by black helicopters, for example, after reporting UFO experiences (particularly if they talk about abduction)... I know of several people who seem to have had their mail tampered with, and quite a few who probably have had their phones tapped.... SO I guess I'd have to say... YES, I think there is a pattern of "government interest" shown in some of these UFO experiencers. go ahead <MrProsser> It is sometimes said that when a civilization that is highly advanced comes in contact with a civilization that is less advanced, the less advanced civlization dies out, do you think this could happen? <CNIMikeL> It's a matter of genuine concern, MrProsser... Even if our visitors are entirely benign (which I'm not sure of, myself).. . there could be a huge impact upon human/earth society... as we become aware of their presence... However, it is also possible that we can absorb the impact and be hugely enriched by it, despite inevitable disruptions... I do not see, on balance, any great reason to think that human society will be crushed by contact... On the contrary, I think open contact is inevitable during the coming century, AND I think it will mark the beginning of a new period of great promise for the humans of earth. go ahead <yex> How about Corsos claims, being corroborated now by A.C.C. of the 40s wreckage being "seeded" into companies like Bell labs resulting in the enormous leap in technology over the past 50 yrs ? <CNIMikeL> Yex, I'm watching this with great interest, to say the least... I have interviewed Col. Corso face to face and find him essentially believable... now the new info from ACC adds to the remarkable possibility that the "alien pedigree" of some of our basic technologies... will prove to be the thing that settles, once and for all, the claim of alien contact starting in, say, the mid-1940s... Of course, that leaves unanswered the further claim of possible contact going back to deep antiquity... I think this is an even harder pill to swallow... but I also think eventually we humans will recognize that we've been visited for a very long time. go ahead <I-Knight> can you ask Mike if he can tell us what the reaction is to the Mexican UFO sightings in US Gov't circles. <CNIMikeL> Knight, I have never seen the slightest hint of "official govt interest" in the Mexican UFO events... In fact, the U.S. press has been absurdly silent on the subject... Something HUGE has gone down in Mexico over the last several years, and even in the States, just north of the border, most people know very little about it. go ahead <Phantom13> Can you ask Mr. Lindemann about the Phoenix lights and the recent Ed Dames explanation? <CNIMikeL> I am persuaded that major anomalous events did occur over Arizona on March 13 and several other nights during that month... I have heard a LOT of different explanations... Now, please forgive me, I am aware that Mr. Dames has offered a new explanation just in the last day or two, but I've been away from my computer and have not read it yet.... However, I would have to say.... that I have come to feel quite sceptical about Mr. Dames. His reputation among other remote viewing specialists is very bad.... His record of predicting certain major UFO events in the past is very bad... I have no reason to think his explanation of Phoenix would be a great deal better. go ahead <outbased> Mike there have been many sceptics on TV lately that seem to point the finger at TV shows (X files) and the last few years ufo reports running side by side, in such a way as to suggest the program is dictating the reports we will get. Do you find that in the last few years the cases have been influenced by this, or have they stayed of the same category? <CNIMikeL> outbased, someday maybe someone will do a scientifically valid study of the influence of TV shows on the prevalence and content of UFO... sightings, but frankly, I think TV has exploited, not created, the great majority of UFO events of recent years.... I see no good reason at all to think that UFO percipients are overly affected by TV programming.... and even if some are, the fact remains that a large number of the best UFO cases on record clearly could not have been affected by TV. go ahead <PtsHawk> CNI...wouldn't this issue be better served if secrecy between researchers was NOT maintained? Don't we need to disburse as much info as possible to as many as possible as quickly as possible? <CNIMikeL> PtsHawk, I completely agree on this. I think secrecy among researchers is very unfortunate and counterproductive... A major example of this problem is occurring right now in Brazil over the Varginha case.... several of the key researchers are now withholding info from each other, and even planting disinformation to throw each other off the track.... this is disgraceful. go ahead <Nesssus> First Hi, Welcome to #ufo, My question is, What do you believe is the reason(s) for abductions? <CNIMikeL> Nesssus, before I can address the reason(s), I must address what abduction actually is.... As I said earlier this evening, I have queried a lot of other researchers as well as abductees on this, and I find that almost no one is really sure what abduction is.... First, "it" is obviously not one single thing... as with other elements of the UFO mustery, abduction has several overlapping likely explanations, at least... for example. some abductees may well be confusing other forms of psychological trauma with supposed alien encounter.... in some cases, there may actually be a brain electro-chemical process involved.... in some cases, I am pretty sure there is actual kidnapping and induced terror by human agents of some kind.... and then we come, at least, to contacts with other intelligent beings.... in this category, we must ask whether human terror is actually an appropriate response to what really happens... that is, was the human actually "abducted" in the traumatic sense, or not? In many cases, the abductee is really not sure... but let's accept that SOME abductions are precisly what they appear to be (I think this is a valid assumption) -- OK, then, WHY? Two primary ideas stand out, I think... 1) "They" need something we've got, or 2) "They" think we need something they've got. In the first category -- genetic material, revitalization, etc.... In the second category, we're trashing earth and need remedial training in bio-ethics, etc.... All of this, of course, is speculation. I'd love to know what some of you think! go ahead <PtsHawk> In 1982, Colonel Barrett (now General) led an army requested security raid on Area 51. Upon getting to the fourth level down the air shaft, he claims to have seen a ufo hovering in a lab much like the movie ID4. Has your research shown that movies, TV, etc are preparing us for an introduction? <CNIMikeL> PtsHawk, I would say yes, the proliferation of film and TV images of alien contact does have the net effect of "preparing us for contact" -- however, I cannot say with any confidence that this has been done deliberately or in an orchestrated way.... I wish I could prove that, because it would be a genuinely great discovery. Anyway... IF I were in charge of "desensitizing" the public to be more ready for contact, I think I would do a lot of what we see occurring all around us, in terms of the profusion of alien imagery. go ahead <Dave_UFO> Michael We'll take a short break here. Perhaps give your fingers a rest. Tell us when you are ready to start again, if that's ok with you of course. <CNIMikeL> Dave, Raine, Crow, I must be going in about ten minutes. <Dave_UFO> Michael: Ok we'll carry on till then if it's ok. <Crow> ok CNIMikeL <Raine> ok shall we ask a few more questions. We have an awful lot here that haven't been asked :) <CNIMikeL> I wasn't sure how long you wanted to go.... By my watch, we've been at it over 90 minutes now... <CNIMikeL> so I'm near my limit. <Dave_UFO> Crow: Go for it then. <CNIMikeL> Raine, I appreciate the great interest.... <CNIMikeL> It's been an honour to speak with you all... now that I've got a working IRC link here, we can perhaps do it again. But I would be interested, next time, in hearing the opinions of others as well.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 {81} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 20:39:43 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 07:41:51 -0400 Subject: {81} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network ______ _______ ____ ------ / / // ____// |---------------------------------------------- U K / / // ___/ / / ' Sept 25th, 1997 / / // / / / / N E T W O R K part 2 Issue 81 --- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------ The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with subscribers in over 40 countries. This issue comes in 3 parts. If any part is missing please mail: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject section e.g. Repost {81} part 1, part 2 or part 3. <Mulder> My question is do you think that it is possible that extraterrestrials influenced the growth of ancient cultures such as the Egyptians. Could it be possible that extraterrestrials have been influencing us for thousands of years, helping us gain knowledge? <CNIMikeL> Mulder, the short answer is yes, almost definitely.... I think this could be the "really hard pill to swallow," eventually. I think it's likely that many of our religious myths have alien elements.... I do NOT think, by the way, that the aliens, whoever they are, "invented God" in their own image, as some might say. I personally do believe that the universe is informed by a supreme intelligence, much more vast and powerful (and benevolent) than our alien friends. But I don't think most of us, in the face of alien magic, could tell the difference -- and I think maybe Moses couldn't either. :-) go ahead <UFatO> Mike. you say guided collapse of the global infrastructure, do you think the government and aliens are working together on this subject? <CNIMikeL> UFatO, all I can say is I'm aware of the theories to that effect. I have looked for, but have not found (to my satisfaction) any good evidence of direct, sustained collusion between major political groups and aliens. I am aware, for example, of speculation that the Nazis may have benefited from such a collusion.... this seems at least somewhat possible, but I don't know of any compelling evidence. go ahead <Moonwatch> Could I also ask Mr. Lindemann, if he feels that the aliens are showing up more than ever these past few years because they are trying to save our planet from our own destruction, or are they looking for a new place to co-habitate with us! <CNIMikeL> Moonwatch, first we have to ask if they are actually showing up more than ever -- I'm not sure on this, because our data is so bad. What seems clear is that more UFO REPORTS are showing up lately, and that is.... to a large extent because of the internet, which allows us all to compare notes globally. But IF they are showing up more than ever, it would seem to coincide with other accelerations that seem quite evidenct... I would say we are moving into a time of turmoil, global crisis and eventual transformation -- I would like to emphasize here that I do NOT believe at all "dimensional shift" or even "pole shift" for that matter.... but I do know full well that we will experience major changes due to global warming, global pollution, rain forest destruction, population pressure, etc... all these things create conditions of great stress upon the planet... and IF (a big IF) our visitors are benevolently concerned about our current mess, then this MIGHT account for an actual increase in alien activity. Perhaps this will become more clear in the next few years. go ahead <ChromeB> Any opinions on Mars? The face on mars, and the possible future "colonization" of mars? <CNIMikeL> Chrome -- the "Face" is, in my opinion, likely to prove genuinely anomalous, with all the interesting ramifications that implies... I would not be surprised at all if we are told by NASA that there is evidence of ancient life on Mars, one of these days... as for colonization, it is a virtual certainty, IF we don't blow ourselves up first. go ahead <CNIMikeL> Last question, folks. <Vadir> While on the topic of what ufo's could be, do you entertain a theory of some ufo's being a swarm of some night time insects, which could be a possible explanation for erratic air movement? <CNIMikeL> Vadir, well, individual UFO cases could be many different things. Nature produces remarkably weird stuff, like swarms of insects for example -- so maybe there is a UFO case, somewhere, that was actually caused by insects. But, I don't think this is likely to be the explanation most of the time. <CNIMikeL> Friends, it has been a great pleasure for me to be here tonight. Thank you very much. <bookfndr> Michael, this is Chuck Preston, I appreciate your coming to our group and will tell Susand Bedell that I talked to you. <Crow> Could I just say on behalf of all of #UFO thank you very much for attending tonight and answering as many questions as possible, we all really appreciate it. We wish you all the best with CNI News in the future and keep up the good work. <Dave_UFO> Michael I'm sure we all speak as one when I say "Thank You" for giving up your valuable time to be here with us today. It has been a most interesting meeting as is apparent by the sheer number of people on the channel. May I take this opportunity to invite you back again at a not to distant date? Perhaps next time we'll have an open meeting. It might be a little chaotic, but it's certainly worth a try. We look forward to it. <Raine> Michael could you please tell everyone how to get your CNI news letter before go? <CNIMikeL> Dave, and everyone, thanks again. And next time, yes, let's try an open meeting. I think we're all civilized enough to make it work, and I very much want to hear what others are thinking. <Dave_UFO> Michael I will mail you and we'll make arrangements... <CNIMikeL> Yes, anyone who would like to try two free issues of CNI News (which comes out on the 1st and 16th of each month, by email) can send me an email request (just 'Try news" is enough) to: CNINews1@aol.com <Dave_UFO> Ok Michael thanks again... <Raine> Thank you very much Michael :) <Crow> We will now remove the +m b4 you go so they can all say there goodbyes. *** Raine sets mode: -m 1 million goodbyes followed........... --- Readers may be interested to know that two free issues of CNI News can be received by sending mail to: CNINews1@aol.com with the message "Try News." Visit CNI News web site at: http://www.cninews.com/ While there, check out the unique "Search CNI News" feature, the only keyword searchable UFO news archive in cyberspace. [UK 2]****** Source: Solihull News newspaper Date: 12 September 1997 Sights set on UFO awareness agenda (Solihull) Special report by Shahid Naqvi Alien beings are making themselves increasingly known to mankind and will soon be part of every day society. This is the view of Gary Lanham who has been researching and investigating UFO phenomena for more than 30 years, and is now focusing his efforts on Solihull. "Sightings seem to be more bold, as if the UFOs are hanging around longer and want people to see them," he said. "I believe whatever is behind them, part of the agenda is simply to be seen. "It is as if we are going through an awareness programme." Having read this far, most may be thinking these are the words of someone who has watched one too many episodes of the X-Files. But for Gary, who is aged 51, and lives in Birmingham, it's a belief gained from a life long interest in UFOs which has included several sightings of his own. He says he is now concentrating on Solihull because it is a part of the country which has experienced a notable increase in UFO activity. "There have been lots of sightings in the Solihull area. "I have only just started looking into it but have already found about a dozen sightings of good quality since 1965," he says. The most spectacular in recent years was by a teacher in mid-December 1993. Whilst driving on the M42 between Portway and Knowle, she claims to have seen two blue concentric circles of light made up of eight pulsating blobs expanding at regular intervals. The sighting was backed up the next day by motorists on the M69 who reported a similar phenomenon. Gary, who 20 years ago co-founded the Birmingham based group, UFOSIS (Unidentified Flying Objects Studies Information Service), said: "undoubtedly there have been more sightings in the area than are reported and I would like to know about them." His most dramatic UFO sighting occurred in Wiltshire - an area he visited in 1975 with three other group members amid reports of increased activity. "We were up on top of a high mound at about 11.30pm when a massive light suddenly appeared. "We just stared in awe as it accelerated in a straight line to a point somewhere to our left and disappeared behind a hill. "Another light appeared in the same position and repeated the manoeuvre. This happened three times. "Each time I tried to fit it into something rational, the objects did something to confound my thinking. It would shoot up in a different direction or it would hover and shake or reverse. "It just left me gobsmacked." Gary has now developed his own view about what is going on out there. "I believe there is something definitely visiting mankind and has been doing so for hundreds if not thousands of years," he says. "Most people who study UFOs will agree the major Government's in the world definitely know more than they are saying. "If you go by sheer weight of evidence there seems to be a moving forward of the whole thing. "My own view is ultimately there is going to be contact, but I don't think it will be how people imagine. It won't be a landing on the White House lawn - it will be far more subtle. "We are going through a period of change. Sightings will become so familiar, stage one will be complete and we will move on to the next stage. "Eventually these beings will become part of society." [UK 3]****** From: Andrew Espeland <andrew@espeland.demon.co.uk> Source: Burton Daily Mail newspaper (Burton on Trent, Staffs) Date: Thursday 12th June 1997 UFO swoops on lorry driver Tales of the unexpected have been brewing across Burton and South Derbyshire, as residents bombarded police with stories involving - flying bricks. >From the outer limits of Newhall to Stapenhill, people are experiencing close encounters of the third kind - with a series of unidentified flying oblong objects. Reports, which started with the sighting of a crescent-shaped UFO hovering over Swadlincote, switched yesterday as residents spotted a pinky brown brick shaped object in the sky above Newhall. The X File-style sightings sparked a UFO investigation after a Burton lorry driver claimed that he was confronted by a giant airborne black mass he could only describe as resembling a giant brick or skip near a UFO spotters' paradise. The driver, who works for the Burton firm of Thacker's Pet Products says he had left the Victoria Crescent firm to deliver goods to Middleton in Derbyshire, a stone's throw away from Ashbourne, once a peak UFO activity centre, when he stopped at a junction. there, across his vision, was a jet black shape without any detail. It hovered immediately in front of him before zooming from one side to the other faster than his eyes could follow and then stopping. Mr Stephen Dyche, of Baker Street, Stapenhill, is to return to the scene of the sighting in 10 days with UFO investigators keen to discover an explanation. He said: "It certainly wasn't aerodynamic. It was getting on for a shape like a brick with nothing to keep it up there. It was just stuck there and there wasn't any movement like you'd expect from a helicopter if it was hovering. "I didn't believe in UFOs or that sort of thing before now but this has definitely changed my mind." Mr Dyche said later sightings of an object similar to the one he saw on Monday had been reported in East Anglia. And he said after reporting the incident to police and the Civil Aviation Authority an organisation called Sub-paranormal Investigations is also set to probe the case. [W 1]****** Source: CNN Date: 31st July 1977 Seven new asteroids could threaten Earth BOSTON (CNN) -- Seven previously unknown asteroids that are close enough and large enough to threaten the Earth have been found by astronomers scanning the heavens for potentially dangerous space rocks. None of the new discoveries pose an immediate threat, said Eleanor F. Helin of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California. In a report this week to the American Astronomical Society meeting in Boston, Helin said the program, called Near-Earth Asteroid Tracking, has identified more than 5,000 asteroids in its first year of operation, but only seven of the space rocks are potentially dangerous to Earth. But she emphasized only 10 percent of the sky has been searched by NEAT astronomers so far. The new discoveries raise to 99 the known asteroids or comets that are considered potential threats to the Earth. Each rock is at least 3,000 feet (1,000 meters) across and located in orbits that will pass within 5 million miles of the Earth. Helin said there may be another 800 smaller asteroids that could threaten the Earth. If an asteroid were to strike land, the effect would be global, Helin said. A large object would fill the atmosphere with dust, blotting sunlight, causing extreme cold and killing plants. Smaller objects could cause continent-wide destruction. "In terms of global destruction, it would take a kilometer-size object," she said. "But any of these smaller guys, say, 30 to 50 meters, can do a lot of local destruction." A kilometer is about three-fifths of a mile, and 30 meters is about 100 feet. Defending Earth with rockets The biggest danger to Earth, Helin said, is from objects called Aten asteroids that orbit inside the Earth's orbit with the sun. The space rocks are bounced around by the gravitational influence of the Earth, Mercury and Venus, and could be set on an Earthward path at any time. "You really can't predict what will happen with these beyond a hundred years," she said. There are now 26 known Aten asteroids larger than 3,000 feet in size, including one discovered by the NEAT project. While none of the Aten asteroids is projected to hit Earth, astronomers say that over time -- hundreds, thousands, or even millions of years -- the space rocks' orbits will change, which could put any of the asteroids on a collision course with Earth. Helin, who has been searching for asteroids for 25 years, said the Earth's only protection from such asteroids is to find them well before they hit and then send up rocket-bombs to shatter them or divert the orbit. [W 2]****** Source: CNN Date: 14th September 1997 Stealth jet crashes during air show near Baltimore Witness: 'It was absolutely horrible' MIDDLE RIVER, Maryland (CNN) -- An Air Force stealth jet broke apart during an air show and crashed into a suburban Baltimore neighborhood Sunday, setting a house on fire and injuring four people on the ground. The pilot ejected seconds before the jet hit the ground and exploded in a cloud of black smoke. The F-117A stealth fighter-bomber crashed about 3 p.m. into Bowley's Condo Marina on Chesapeake Bay, near the Glenn Martin State Airport. It was making its final passes at the Chesapeake Air Show and was preparing to return to its base when the crash occurred. Baltimore County Fire Capt. Steve Gisriel said a man and three women at the condominium complex sustained only minor injuries and were not taken to the hospital. Among them was an elderly woman who managed to escape her home seconds after the plane slammed into her garage. The pilot, identified as Capt. Bryan Knight, also was treated at the scene for minor injuries to his back and neck. Gisriel said the fire was contained within an hour. The plane carried approximately 11,000 pounds of fuel, he said. A house, a garage and two motor vehicles were destroyed and another house was damaged, Gisriel said. A three-block area in this suburb east of Baltimore was evacuated to allow military officials to investigate. The F-117A -- known for its radar-evading abilities -- is made of a top-secret material that the Pentagon would like to keep classified. Witness: 'It was absolutely horrible' Eyewitnesses described -- and amateur videotape showed -- pieced falling off the plane as it passed over a runway at the airport. Sharon Schuchardt, who was watching the air show from a boat, witnessed the crash. "The plane was flying over and the tail end just blew off," she told CNN. "At first we thought it was part of the act. All of a sudden, the plane just started going down." "It's something nobody in their lifetime would ever want to experience," she said. "It was horrible, absolutely horrible. ... It was huge, a total explosion, and then we just kept hearing popping sounds ... the tires or the gas tank." Another witness, Kimberly Chaapel, noticed "part of the wing fell off" before the plane went down and the pilot ejected. "He started rolling head over tail and (the pilot) ejected probably 500 feet before the ground," she said. "He was very, very lucky." She said she drove to the crash scene and found the pilot walking around in her uncle's yard and got him into a lawn chair. "He said he was fine," she said, but was rubbing his neck. Andy Kunkowski said he was watching the show from a small boat near the shoreline and immediately went to the scene of the crash and spoke to the pilot. "He said he was truly sorry about what had happened and said he tried to pull it out," Kunkowski said. "He wanted to land this thing in the water, but couldn't." "He said everything was fine until he started to make an incline, and at that point he realized the rear wasn't doing what it was supposed to," Kunkowski said. No F-117s lost in the Persian Gulf War The Air Force said the F-117A had taken off from Langley Air Force Base, Virginia, and was to return after flying by the air show. The aircraft, assigned to the 7th Fighter Squadron, 49th Fighter Wing at Holloman Air Force Base, New Mexico, was one of two F-117As loaned temporarily at Langley to support air shows along the East Coast, the Air Force said. The boomerang-shaped F-117 Nighthawk, armed with laser-guided bombs, was used in the Gulf War against the most heavily defended Iraqi targets because of its ability to evade radar and radar-guided missiles. Air Force sources told CNN that this is the third major accident this year involving the single-seat F-117A, but the first this year in which a plane was destroyed. The Air Force did lose an F-117A during a night training exercise in New Mexico in spring 1995. The pilot was killed in that accident. Air Force sources said an experimental prototype of the F-117A was lost during testing when the plane was a "classified project." There have been a total of six serious accidents involving F-117As in the 1990s, a serious accident being defined as one that resulted in a loss of life or at least $1 million damage. The F-117A costs about $45 million. The Air Force had 54 in its inventory before Sunday's crash. The Air Force said the plane generally has a good safety record, and in the Persian Gulf War none were lost. [W 3]****** From: "A.J. Craddock" <webmaster@cseti.org> Date: Tuesday 19th August 1997 Pat Robertson says kill all UFO believers From: BOB SHELL, [76750,2717] TO: Steven M. Greer, MD, [103275,1472] DATE: 8/19/97 RE: Pat Robertson says kill all UFO believers The following was posted on UFO Updates and, frankly, scares the hell out of me. I once worked for this slime ball Robertson for a short time, and I know how religious he really is. All he cares about is money, and he will say anything that keeps it rolling in. I should point out that any television which broadcasts programs like this advocating killing and/or violence is in violation of FCC regulations and can have its charter revoked if people complain. I think it's time to write some letters to Washington, folks. Bob PLEASE REPOST THIS BROADLY --- FREEDOM WRITER PRESS RELEASE FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE July 28, 1997 CONTACT: Skipp Porteous (413) 528-3800 Robertson advocates stoning for UFO enthusiasts Great Barrington, MA -- In a recent pronouncement, television evangelist and head of the Christian Coalition, Pat Robertson, advocated death by stoning for UFO enthusiasts. Freedom Writer magazine, in its July/August issue, mailed today, disclosed Robertson's statement. Freedom Writer is published by the Institute for First Amendment Studies, a group that monitors the right. Robertson used the news of the July 4th Mars landing to promote his extreme beliefs. A segment on the July 8, 1997 broadcast of The 700 Club featured news of the Mars Pathfinder mission. Employing the historical event as a starting point, the program delved into the possibility of the existence of UFOs and space aliens. While Robertson viewed the space program with suspicion, on a more serious note, he launched into a diatribe against those who entertain the existence of space aliens and UFOs. He said, in a rambling discourse, that if such things exist, they are simply demons trying to lead people away from Christ. According to Robertson, the threat is so serious that people who believe in space aliens should be put to death by stoning -- according to "God's word." "The Bible says the Earth belongs to man, but the heavens belong to the Lord," Robertson said. "He has given us the Earth. He also warned, way back when Moses was writing down not only what is the Ten Commandments, but Deuteronomy, which is almost the Second Law. "Here is what he said to the children of Israel about this whole matter: "If there is found among you, within any of your gates which the Lord your God gives you, a man or a woman who has been wicked in the sight of the Lord your God, in transgressing His covenant, who has gone and served other gods and worshipped them, either the sun or moon or any of the hosts of heaven which I have not commanded you, and you hear of it, then you shall inquire diligently. And if it is indeed true and certain that such an abomination has been committed in Israel, then you shall bring out to your gates that man or woman who has committed that wicked thing, and stone to death that man or woman with stones.'" (Deuteronomy 17:2-5, NKJV) "Now, that's what Moses said to the children of Israel about those who worship the sun and the moon and the hosts of heaven, because these things, at best, are lifeless nothings, or, if they are intelligent, they're demonic. And, yes, there is a host of heaven. There are angels and there are fallen angels. There is no question about it." "Can a demon appear as a slanty-eyed, funny-looking creature? Of course he can, or it can. Of course they can deceive people. And if they can lead somebody away from the true God, or away from Jesus Christ, anyway it happens, it doesn't matter, you will lose your salvation. It doesn't matter how they get you. The question is, did they get you, and under what guise? "This is man in rebellion against God, who refuses to take God's Law. And God says, 'My covenant says you won't do this. And if I find anybody in Israel,'-- "which is his pure nation" -- 'If I find anybody in Israel that's doing this sort of thing, then I want you to take him out and dispose of him." "It's a clear violation of God's word." Skipp Porteous, Freedom Writer publisher, commented: "As the founder and chairman of the Christian Coalition -- a group dedicated to becoming the most powerful political force in America -- Robertson's extreme ideas need to be taken seriously, for they not only negate pluralism, but condemn to death those who dare to believe differently." -[continued in part 3]- Search for other documents from or mentioning: ufo | cninews1 | andrew
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 {81} part 3 - United Kingdom UFO Network From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 20:39:43 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 07:43:38 -0400 Subject: {81} part 3 - United Kingdom UFO Network ______ _______ ____ ------ / / // ____// |---------------------------------------------- U K / / // ___/ / / ' Sept 25th, 1997 / / // / / / / N E T W O R K part 3 Issue 81 --- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------ The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with subscribers in over 40 countries. This issue comes in 3 parts. If any part is missing please mail: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject section e.g. Repost {81} part 1, part 2 or part 3. [W 4]****** Source: The Sunday Times Date: Sunday 14 September 1997 A remarkable gaffe A remarkable gaffe by Sheila Jackson-Lee, a Republican legislator from Texas and member of a congressional space and aeronautics committee, has Capitol Hill abuzz. On a visit to the Mars Pathfinder mission control centre in California she is reported to have inquired whether the space probe had succeeded in taking pictures of the American flag planted by the astronaut Neil Armstrong in 1969. "We just don't teach enough science," lamented Vernon Ehlers, another member of the committee. [W 5]****** Source: CNN Date: 4th September 1997 Japanese town becomes destination for UFO watchers HAKUI, Japan (Reuter) -- If the day comes that aliens decide to land on Earth, they could do worse than visit this little fishing town. Long known for seafood and beaches, Hakui now draws tourists from around the world for its obsession with UFOs, as the town's UFO-themed restaurants, "pachinko" pinball gaming centers, bars and hot spring resorts attest. At the center of this celestial activity is the town's most popular attraction, Cosmo Isle Hakui, a UFO and space museum shaped, of course, as a large flying saucer. The driving force behind the museum, located in Ishikawa prefecture's rugged Noto peninsula along the Sea of Japan coast, is its director, Johsen Takano, a scientist and UFO buff who has turned a lifelong hobby into a paying job. Takano's electronics background and leadership of the town's "mystery club" convinced town fathers to cough up public funds to build the museum, which opened in July 1996. "We have three themes: space and space development, SETI or the search for extraterrestrial intelligence, and then UFOs," Takano, SETI and UFO Science Museum Habitable Zone Director, told Reuters in an interview. The economics of folklore The museum has space-related equipment from the United States and Russia on display, UFO-related materials, a library and a research center. Information on UFOs includes aerial phenomena, alien abductions, crop circles, UFO contacts and radio transmissions related to SETI. Vice director Takashi Ishiyama said local officials turned to UFOs to revitalize the town after its population was decimated by an exodus of young people to the cities. "Usually governments wouldn't participate in this kind of thing. But with our government's lead and attention from the mass media, everyone started talking about the myths associated with this town," Ishiyama said. The town, which boasts the most reported UFO sightings in Japan, is steeped in "Alien" folklore and legend. "There is one legend called 'shohachibun' which says cymbal-like flashing lights were seen flying from one end of the mountain to the other," said Ishiyama. "Another legend tells of children being taken away in a big 'nabe' (stew) pan while playing." Ancient shrine holds clue to fascination But it is the town's ancient Ketataisha shrine, regarded as one of the four main shrines in Japan, that may hold the key to the town's preoccupation with strange phenomena. "Ancient documents kept in the town's Ketataisha shrine talk about flashing lights in the sky and the hand of god controlling them. The story has been passed down from generation to generation," Ishiyama said. Although there was opposition from residents at first to using tax money for the museum, they finally came around to the idea as much out of curiosity as the commercial possibilities. Around the corner from the museum is the UFO ramen (Chinese noodles) restaurant, which serves up a heaping bowl of noodles garnished with little octopus balls shaped like aliens. After a long day of sightseeing, visitors can also relax at the town's "Euphoria" hot springs. --- A FEARFUL SYMMETRY A TRUE STORY OF ALIEN INTRUSION INTO HUMAN LIVES By D. Lynne Bishop A FEARFUL SYMMETRY Copyright 1995 by D. Lynne Bishop All rights reserved. No part of this publication may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical including photocopying, recording or otherwise without prior permission of the publisher, except by a reviewer who may quote brief passages. First Printing September 1995 Printed in the United States of America BOOKFINDER PUBLISHING --- CHAPTER FOUR By the time May 22 arrived, so many memories had flooded my mind, I could scarcely organize them into a cohesive whole. I had remembered strange events in my past, many as early as when I was three and four years of age. Dreams that had long ago been stored in my subconscious mind had surfaced, and many of them had an unusual "feel" to them--as though they contained a reality not usually associated with normal dreams. I began a journal in order to collect and correlate the massive input, and added to it almost daily. The thoughts and memories were very intrusive, and concentrating on day-to-day living was difficult. Many of my friends and co- workers were beginning to bear the brunt of my active search for answers. Several old phobic tendencies that I had thought I'd conquered began to resurface: fear of the dark, not wanting to be alone. I was not proud of the return of aspects of myself that I deemed weaknesses, and hoped that they were just temporary manifestations of the turmoil in my mind. On the evening of the 22nd, my husband and I again met John Carpenter and his assistant. I had been in contact with John regarding the many memories and dreams I had been recalling, and we agreed that one dream in particular seemed to have a direct relationship to the alien abduction phenomenon. He felt it would be a good starting point for the session, and would help to ease into the area in which I had encountered the memory block in my first session. After a short, relaxing pre-hypnosis discussion, hypnotic regression was induced, and the events of several days, years ago in the past, began a replay, with me as both a player and a bystander. HYPNOSIS SESSION May 22, 1992 What follows, again, are excerpts from actual transcripts. The hypnotherapist has induced regression, and set the time frame to the "dream" sequence. John: It's kinda around age nineteen or twenty, a time that you know about . . . a time that means something to you because you had what you thought was a dream. The dream elements are very vivid in your mind today . . . and you can recall the greatest detail . . . and what is the very first thing that you're aware of? Lynne: Hmm . . . (Subject smiled) . . . It's dinner time. I can smell something cooking on the stove . . . John: . . . and I'll bet you'll know just what that smell is. Lynne: (Big laugh) . . . Hamburger-helper. We had a lot of that. (Laugh). John: And what else comes to you about that moment in time? Lynne: Fleeting images of all of us walking through. The way the house is situated--the kitchen is over here, and we had a sliding glass door in the den area. It was actually a dining room. The living room was around the corner. John: . . . anything else you notice? Lynne: It's nice weather, again. Another springlike, summery day. Wednesday comes to mind. Mother and (my sister) are there, but (my brother) had gone somewhere. He wasn't there at the time. The trees are really in bloom, heavily--well, not bloom, but in leaf--really heavy. It's not really hot . . . feels like June. Mother is in the kitchen and I'm in the den, looking out the backdoor. (My sister) is in the back of the house. John: Why are you looking out the backdoor? Lynne: Something flashed! John: See it right now. See it as if it's happening right now . . . Lynne: I'm opening the door. There are some cats on the back-porch, and they scatter. There were a calico, an orange and a gray. John: And what's the next thing you do? Lynne: I'm moving pretty fast, and I scattered the cats. I run out into about the middle of this little field area . . . John: You do that every night? Lynne: (Laugh) . . . No. John: Why do you go out on this particular evening? Lynne: Well . . . there's an object that's moving. I thought at first it was an airplane. Sunlight glinted off of it, and I remember thinking it was an airplane in trouble. I went out to see it . . . but it's shaped wrong. It's definitely saucer-shaped, domed a little with a flatter bottom. No markings . . . and it's silver. It keeps on moving. I'm standing in awe. It's still moving, and I'm thinking, "Why in the world haven't I run back inside?" There's no sound . . . no lights. It's as large as the barn. It gets to the pond and makes a sudden stop, then an abrupt move in the opposite direction. It's coming back. John: As you're standing there, what do you feel? What do you do? Lynne: I'm scared. I begin hoofing it back to the house. Mom's looking out the backdoor. She sees me coming, and I yell at her. She opens the door, and I yell at her, "Mom, Mom, get inside! Shut the doors! Lock up everything!" I didn't have to tell her the aliens were coming; she just knew it. John: What do you notice about it, now? Lynne: It's landed just a hair . . . the barn is about seventy-five/a hundred feet away. It's between the house and the barn. It didn't exactly land--It's hovering off to the right. There are some fruit trees there. It's only about fifteen or twenty feet up. John: And what are you all doing now? Lynne: We're all scrambling. Mom and I are talking a-mile-a-minute. I've gotten in the door and turned around. I see . . . one of the occupants floating down! He's floating down from the front left of the craft. It's a very controlled movement, smooth, like a feather falls. John: What does the occupant look like? Lynne: Big head, small body. Oversized head. Its eyes are liquid pools, black and endless. Like a deer's eyes. It's only a few inches in front of me now. It isn't wearing anything. Its skin is the color of a gray crayon and white crayon, if you blended them. The texture is smooth, dry, resilient like rubber. It's got a very pointed chin--really sharp. No ears or hair. John: Where are your mother and sister at this point? Lynne: My sister is down the hall. I keep feeling like she was in one of the bedrooms, toward the back. I almost got the feeling she was asleep, and I don't know why . . . Mom and I are both in the den. And it's like time has stopped. We're just kind of frozen. Mom and I are both facing the backdoor, and (my sister) is stuck in the hall. John: Notice what happens next. Lynne: There's a . . . one of them is real close to me. He was outside one moment, and in the next. I never see them walking . . . They just glide! There are others in the house, but the one near me came through the door, but not like we would. I can see him behind the glass, then his hands, arms and body just come through. I get a sense of five, but the others came into the house from somewhere else. I didn't see them come through. The one near me is too close to me, and I don't want him there . . . ! John: What are you aware of now? Lynne: I've been here before . . . the gray room. My mom and sister aren't here. There are a couple of creatures with me, one to either side. There is such a wall . . . no doors or windows. John: Go on, share it with us . . . Lynne: (Pause) . . . I see myself pregnant. There's a table . . . I'm standing near it. John: (At this point, my agitation was becoming apparent. The hynotherapist took several seconds to restore calm and assure me that no harm would or could occur.) Go ahead, you can be safe about all this . . . you can know the feelings, but not relive the intensity . . Lynne: I see them helping me onto the table, and I'm lying down. There's a tall one over here, at least a foot taller. He looks different from the smaller ones. I don't sense any communication right now, but I know why I'm there, anyway. I have something they want. When I left there, I wasn't pregnant. John: So, as you lay on the table, what happened? Lynne: A couple of the small ones are staying near my shoulders. One of them keeps rubbing my head, on the left side. It relaxes me. I feel pressure on my legs, like a molded form has come around the inside of my legs. The tall one is down at my feet. (Through continued questioning, it became apparent that an operation was performed by the taller entity. From the description, it appeared to bear a resemblance to a fetal extraction.) John: After this is over, what are your thoughts? How do you feel? Lynne: . . . (Crying) . . . a feeling of emptiness. I just want to know, why? Why? I just want to go home. John: (Again calming the subject and assurances of well-being) . . . Did they communicate anything to you? Lynne: I'm too woozy to communicate. The little ones are working on bringing me back into some calm . . . and I feel a languor, a lassitude. They take me past some consoles with glass tops. I get the sensation that it was necessary, that they've been doing this so long we should know by now--should understand why they're doing it . . . like a teacher to a first grader. The sense that we're pretty ignorant . . . John: Let's back up for a minute--when you left the house, do you recall how you left? Lynne: Oh, that's freaky! I was floated out . . . I hope they opened the glass door, 'cause I don't think I can go through that. But I don't remember them opening it. I think I went through it. John: And at the end, when you returned to the house, how did you return? Lynne: A couple of them escorted me back. We floated down from the craft, and they let me walk to the house. When we reached the house, they were a little behind me, and to either side. They didn't walk--they were gliding. When we reached the door, I just knew I was supposed to open it, and go inside. They stood behind me, on the little porch area, but they didn't go in. Mom was still frozen. John: Does it seem like the same moment in time when you returned? Lynne: No . . . It's pretty dark now. It would have been about 6:00 P.M. before, and now it's close to 8:00 P.M. John: Did you see them or the craft leave? Lynne: No. I think they told me not to watch. They told me to forget, and then shortly after that it was like Mom was finishing a conversation with me, and (my sister) came into the den, like she was completing her movement. None of us noticed anything; we just thought we had been watching the cats. John: For two hours! Lynne: (Laugh). Yeah. John: Okay, now at this moment, I want you to try to do something. A while back you were on a table, when you and your mother were on a craft, when you were together in a car . . . Flash to that room, to that time . . . perhaps part of the answer lies in what happened then. Can you remember that time and that table? (This referred to the initial shared event with my mother, back in 1972.) Lynne: Uh, huh. John: What do you feel? Lynne: Um . . . There's a little one . . . at my right shoulder . . . touching my forehead above my right eye. It's cool . . . cool. There are two tall ones. One of them got something from over by the wall . . it looks like a box. It's dark gray . . . chromium gray. One of the tall ones is standing by my feet, and the other one is handing the box to him. The one standing there is manipulating the box, somehow. It's like . . . a compartment . . . He's moved a lid, or lip, or something. I get the feeling they're conferring with each other. There's no sound--just a mental exchange. It's a mental-awareness type of thing--like one's sending and one's receiving. It's like, one of them has done this before, and is kinda . . teaching the other one . The subordinate one has stepped back a little . . . observing . . . taking notes. There's something . . . that's in the container . . . the box. There's an instrument . . . shaped like a tongue depressor, except that it's metal. There's something else, like a test-tube . . . something that looks like glass. It contains a liquid . . . cloudy, murky looking . . . John: What do you notice? Lynne: I don't think I'm going to like this! John: (Induced deeper state of relaxation and assurances of well-being). Tell us what you see and feel. Lynne: (Description of an artificial insemination followed.) John: When they're done, then what happens? Lynne: The little one . . . is helping me get up. I feel woozy and drugged. John: Does anybody tell you anything? Lynne: They "tell" me, "This is how we breed." And they say they'll be back. They're happy . . . it's like this is what they live for. And I keep asking them, "Why?", but they don't answer me. They just tell me, "It's not the time to know." ---D.L.B. --------------------------------------------------------------------- UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK STATEMENT uk.ufo.nw statement: The articles or text appearing within these pages are not necessarily the views or opinions of United Kingdom UFO Network. 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UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 18:37:31 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 07:53:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze Greetings EBK and List: I know that Barbara Becker has been catching some heat about the paper she has worked up on Gulf Breeze. When Barbara first mentioned this on the List, I responded to her, and asked to see what she had on the subject. Barbara has been very quick and forthright in her response and dealings with me, and has sent me her material. Folks, after giving it a good going over, and fully digesting what she is talking about, I find that her investigation and research is good, and merits a close look by anyone interested in this case. That may mean nothing to some of you, but I can only speak for myself, as one of the many "no-names" out here in the recipients' column. Let me publicly give Barbara a "hats off," and thank her for pointing me in a direction that I had not considered fully, before, in regard to Ed Walters' claims and actions. And let me put an exclamation point on that by saying that I was one that had not really made my mind up about Walters and Gulf Breeze, because I felt that there were yet unexplored and investigated facets of the case. I was still sitting on the fence, but now find myself leaning way over to one side, on the strength of some facts that Barbara has brought to light. Yes, everyone needs to make their own decisions about this, but I would advise all to not make any snap decisions without first looking at the material. I believe that Barbara will be formatting the material for posting on the list, if I remember what she said correctly, and look forward to seeing discussion and peer review. That's all I've got to say, heh. Glenn Joyner Dallas, Texas ******************************************** ** Visit : http://ufo-world.simplenet.com ** ** It's a SERIOUS look at UFO phenomena ** ********************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: UFO sighting with John Velez From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:56:51 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 08:55:34 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez Re Michael Davis's thought that I was seeing a plane.... > From: mdavis@ccsmtp.glycomed.COM (Davis, Michael) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez I'd written: > >I looked, and there it was - a small bright pinpoint. Imagine if > >the stars shone by day, and you'd spotted a bright one. That might > >give you an idea of what this looked like. The color was silvery > >white. > >"If it's a plane," John answered, "why is it hovering?" > >It seemed to be there a fairly long while, but I'm aware from > >other, non-UFO experiences that I tend to overestimate the time of > >any event. I'd say a minute max, maybe 30 or 45 seconds. And Michael Davis helpfully comments: > I suppose this may be a bit simplistic, but the above sounds > exactly like a plane, from the written description. I suggest this > embarrassingly obvious solution because I live in the San Francisco > Bay Area between the Oakland Int'l Airport and the S.F. Int'l Airport. > My home is on in tall hilly area overlooking virtually all of the > immediate Bay Area. At any given time of the day or night, there > could be over a dozen planes flying about. Apparently, my living room > is in direct line of sight with a corridor used for jet take off. > Every few minutes there appears to be an extremely bright white light > hovering in the sky for what seems to be an uncomfortablylong time, > i.e., 30-45 seconds. The light then generally makes a right turn > and flies off out of sight. Naturally, the jet appears to be > hovering as it's in direct line of sight, then makes a 'right angle' > turn. The pilot will turn off the lights as the jet ascends on to > it's flight path creating the illusion that the light/object has > disappeared. Michael, I'm happy that anyone is taking the trouble to try to explain this. I wonder, though...are the planes you see taking off, as you've described, directly over your house? I'd think they wouldn't be, since they're starting near ground level and rising. The thing John and I saw was nearly directly overhead. John's house isn't too far from Kennedy Airport. We saw several planes apparently taking off from there -- or, anyway, rising as they came from the direction of the airport. I'm pretty familiar with the traffic patterns of aircraft around New York, and recently spent a while on my roof, from which I can see most of the sky to the east, west, and south. At any moment there were four to a dozen planes in sight. But from my vantage point, I never saw what Michael describes. I could see planes apparently on an approach to Newark Airport, others apparently on a takeoff path from Kennedy (because my view to the north and northeast was blocked, I wouldn't be seeing planes coming from or going to LaGuardia). But none came at me headfirst, so to speak, shining lights directly at me. Since it was just an hour before sunset, and most planes appeared as black silhouttes, I can imagine the effect of their lights would be extremely brilliant if they were shining directly at me. Never happened. Of course, the view is different from John's house. But one difference is that most of the sky you can see form John's is directly overhead. So that, it seems to me, makes it even more unlikely to see something coming up from an airport, with lights pointed directly toward us. In any case, the thing we saw had a definite shape when seen through binoculars -- and the shape wasn't the shape of a plane. Besides, for the entire length of the sighting (30 seconds to a minute, I'd estimate), the look of the thing through binoculars didn't change at all. Nor did its position. Even coming directly at us, I'd imagine a plane would at least grow in the binoculars' field of view. Of course <smiling> Don Ledger had a simpler way of saying this. Because the thing was almost directly overhead, if it was a plane with lights on, it would have been divebombing New York! Quite a thought.... Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:01:32 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 08:57:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality Regarding... >Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:56:09 +0100 >From: Neil Morris <Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> >Subject: Re: Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality Neil wrote: >I find it odd that the germainium point contact diode had been about >for some time yet this technique hadn't seemed to have been used, >they were still playing about with point contact "cats whiskers"... Neil, With obvious expertise, George Fergus, has addressed the points you raised and I there's little I could add. >This is all gut feeling but looking back over the years and even to >my fathers interest in the same subject in the 50's I always got the >impression that the transistor was a solution ahead of it's time, it >felt that the rest of electronics technology needed the remains of >the 40's and most if not all of the 50's to catch up, thats 12 years. There are a number of aspects which affected the history of the transistor from 1948 onwards. It wasn't universally accepted as a breakthrough and, comparatively, vacuum tube technology was significantly more advanced as a proven switching mechanism. I've read some of the considerable material which discusses this topic and highlights the factors involved. One of those factors was apparently a gradual recognition that the vacuum tube would eventually reach its limits, as demands for more complex systems increased. This was a particular concern in the telephone industry, where a technology with a long term future, and low maintenance overheads, was seen as an absolute necessity. It took some time for the "transistor revolution" to become a proven alternative, but as the advantages came to be recognised, that revolution gained considerable momentum. On a web site, I noticed that someone had transcribed an article from "Scientific American", September 1977 Volume 23, Number 3, pp. 63-9. I've seen the original article, entitled, "Microelectronics", by Robert N. Noyce, founder of the Intel Corp. and an extract might be relevant: The evolution of electronic technology over the past decade has been so rapid that it is sometimes called a revolution. Is this large claim justified? I believe the answer is yes. It is true that what we have seen has been to some extent a steady quantitative evolution: smaller and smaller electronic components performing increasingly complex electronic functions at ever higher speeds and at ever lower cost. And yet there has also been a true revolution: a qualitative change in technology, the integrated microelectronic circuit, has given rise to a qualitative change in human capabilities. It is not an exaggeration to say that most of the technological achievements of the past decade have depended on microelectronics. Small and reliable sensing and control devices are the essential elements in the complex systems that have landed men on the moon and explored Mars, not to speak of their similar role in the intercontinental weapons that dominate world politics. Microelectronic devices are also the essence of new products ranging from communications satellites to hand-held calculators and digital watches. Somewhat subtler, but perhaps eventually more significant, is the effect of microelectronics on the computer. The capacity of the computer for storing, processing and displaying information has been greatly enhanced. [...] The microelectronics revolution is far from having run its course. We are still learning how to exploit the potential of the integrated circuit by developing new theories and designing new circuits whose performance may yet be improved by another order of magnitude. [...] It all began with the development 30 years ago of the transistor: a small, low-power amplifier that replaced the large, power-hungry vacuum tube. The advent almost simultaneously of the stored-program digital computer provided a large potential market for the transistor. The synergy between a new component and a new application generated an explosive growth of both. The computer was the ideal market for the transistor and for the solid-state integrated circuits the transistor spawned, a much larger market than could have been provided by the traditional applications of electronics in communications. [...] In spite of the inherent compatibility of microelectronics and the computer, the historical fact is that early efforts to miniaturize electronic components were not motivated by computer engineers. Indeed, the tremendous potential of the digital computer was not quickly appreciated; even the developers of the first computer felt that four computers, more or less, would satisfy the world's computation needs! Various missile and satellite programs, however,called for complex electronic systems to be installed in equipment in which size, weight and power requirements were severely constrained. and so the effort to miniaturize was promoted by military and space agencies. The initial approach was an attempt to miniaturize conventional components. One program was "Project Tinkertoy" of the National Bureau of standards, whose object was to package the various electronic components in a standard shape: a rectangular form that could be closely packed rather than the traditional cylindrical form. Another approach was "molecular engineering." The example of the transistor as a substitute for the vacuum tube suggested that similar substitutes could be devised: that new materials could be discovered or developed that would by their solid-state nature allow electronic functions other than amplification to be performed within a monolithic solid. These attempts were largely unsuccessful, but they publicized the demand for miniaturization and the potential rewards for the successful development of some form of microelectronics. A large segment of the technical community was on the lookout for a solution of the problem because it was clear that a ready market awaited the successful inventor. What ultimately provided the solution was the semiconductor integrated circuit, the concept of which had begun to take shape only a few years after the invention of the transistor. Several investigators saw that one might further exploit the characteristics of semiconductors such as germanium and silicon that had been exploited to make the transistor. The body resistance of the semiconductor itself and the capacitance of the junctions between the positive (p) and negative (n) regions that could be created in it could be combined with transistors in the same material to realize a complete circuit of resistors, capacitors and amplifiers [see "Microelectronic circuit Elements." by James D. Meindl, page 70]. In 1953 Harwick Johnson of the Radio Corporation of America applied for a patent on a phase-shift oscillator fashioned in a single piece of germanium by such a technique. The concept was extended by G. W. A. Dummer of the Royal Radar Establishment in England, Jack S. Kilby of Texas Instruments Incorporated and Jay W. Lathrop of the Diamond Ordnance Fuze Laboratories. Several key developments were required, however, before the exciting potential of integrated circuits could be realized. In the mid-1950's engineers learned how to define the surface configuration of transistors by means of photolithography and developed the method of solid-state diffusion for introducing the impurities that create p and n regions. Batch processing of many transistors on a thin "wafer" sliced from a large crystal of germanium or silicon began to displace the earlier technique of processing individual transistors. The hundreds or thousands of precisely registered transistors that could be fabricated on a single wafer still had to be separated physically, assembled individually with tiny wires inside a protective housing and subsequently assembled into electronic circuits. The integrated circuit, as we conceived and developed it at Fairchild Semiconductor in 1959, accomplishes the separation and interconnection of transistors and other circuit elements electrically rather than physically. The separation is accomplished by introducing pn diodes, or rectifiers, which allow current to flow in only one direction. The technique was patented by Kurt Lehovec at the Sprague Electric Company. The circuit elements are interconnected by a conducting film of evaporated metal that is photoengraved to leave the appropriate pattern of connections. An insulating layer is required to separate the underlying semiconductor from the metal film except where contact is desired. The process that accomplishes this insulation had been developed by Jean Hoerni at Fairchild in 1958, when he invented the planar transistor: a thin layer of silicon dioxide, one of the best insulators known, is formed on the surface of the wafer after the wafer has been processed and before. The conducting metal is evaporated onto it. Since then additional techniques have been devised that give the designer of integrated circuits more flexibility, but the basic methods were available by 1960, and the era of the integrated circuit was inaugurated. Progress since then has been astonishing. even to those of us who have been intimately engaged in the evolving technology. [...] [End] At the risk of losing sight of this list's focus, I'll cut it short there. >A thought to conclude with, the guys at Bell labs might have had a >good idea as to how to build a "mouse trap" and physics being physics >they most likly did, but if you you get your hands on someone else's >working mouse trap, it sure helps your design time. The documented history of the research and development which led to the transistor, and the integrated circuit, has become an issue and looking at the perspective in later years is perhaps also appropriate. The "mouse trap" analogy assumes that, in the first instance, the "Roswell" case has some proven merit as a basis for that analogy. It doesn't and all we have recently seen are "alien transistor" claims which offer no substantive evidence, are factually flawed and seemingly fail to understand that the origins of the transistor have never been a mystery. That substantive, factual evidence of the transistor's history, results in "conspiracy" allegations, was perhaps sadly inevitable. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:56:43 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 08:56:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings > Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:36:44 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings John Velez is overheard making the astonishing claim to Chris: > I need the second (or better yet) third set of eyes on this > stuff. In spite of Ed Stewarts insistance that these are video > artifacts we know what we saw, and there _was something_ buzzing > around up there that ain't one of ours. Unless the US Airforce > is producing silent, silver, hamburger bun shaped crafts! <G> What kind of strawman argument/claim is this? At no time in this thread have I ever made anly claims as to what your blotches, or pixels were --- much less ever insist that they were "video artifacts". Prove me wrong and quote exactly from the thread where I ever made any such claim regarding your pixels? You can't, but I doubt you will ever admit it for after all that would be tantamount to admitting that you are so self-centered and emotionally involved with the outcome of your pixels that it has kept you from being able to read and properly comprehend the simple King's Engliah! The fact of the matter is that nothing can be conclusively said from the analysis of your generational jpeg images and any such "analysis" is a total waste of time. Especially since it should be quite apparent from anyone looking at the jpeg image that whatever was captured will never be able to be identified from the original point, or blotch, or pixels on the jpeg image. And for any chance of a real analysis that may bring some fruitful information about the image would of necessity have to have access to the original video. That is an impossibility in this medium which relegates all discussions related to the analysis of these jpeg, or BMP, or tiff, or whatever to simple posturing on your part for at best all that can be portrayed on this medium are generational copies. Also, it is quite apparent to me now that John Velez missed the entire slant and direction of my initial cynicism. It was not so much directed at his pixels, but at his remarks categorizing disciplined historical research as something totally useless and not needed. A remark that he felt compelled to make even though it had nothing to do with the original thread. So let's add strawman arguments to his wantom use of ad hominem slurs as part of John Velez's repertoire in his bag of tools to be employed by the new ufology in leading people to the "truth". Are your pixels that weak that apparently you need to distract attention from your "evidence" by employing ad hominems and strawman arguments instead? Ed Stewart ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart egs@netcom.com | So Man, who here seems principal alone, There is Something | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Going On! ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, Salvador Freixedo ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. --------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man -------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Blood Sport in Ufology From: galevy@pipeline.com [Gary Alevy] Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:57:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:00:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Blood Sport in Ufology > From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:06:24 PDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Blood Sport in Ufology > > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 00:10:40 -0400 > > From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Blood Sport in Ufology > > < big snip > > > > If we can no longer promise a witness anonymity because > > > down the line somebody may decree that he or she doesn't deserve > > > it, then let me be the first to urge that no UFO witnesses desiring > > > privacy step forward ever again. Especially in these days when > > > the trashing of witnesses (not to mention colleagues) has become a > > > blood sport in some quarters of ufology. > > > Jerry Clark > > Jerry, > > Speaking of the blood sport in ufology. > > I was reading Jacques Vallee's "Forbidden Science" and on page 386 > > under Willingboro, Thursday 3 April 1969 he says: > > "Don [Hanlon] believes that Jerome Clark, a young ufologist from > > Chicago, has become so convinced that an extraterrestrial invasion was > > imminent that he has been driven close to a breakdown". > > I am trying to elucidate the role Jacques Vallee has played in ufology > > and I would appreciate your commentary on this somewhat remarkable > > comment he made regarding you in his book. > > Gary Alevy > Gary, > Ah yes, the Vallee reference. > Back in those long-ago days I was strongly under the influence of > John Keel, who at one point declared me his successor. I took him > pretty seriously. In those days John believed that an ultra (not extra) > terrestrial invasion was imminent, and I, being young and foolish, > believed him. "Driven close to a breakdown" is hyperbole and, I > suspect, a 1990s addition to what Vallee represents as a 1967 > reference, presumably to get back at me for critical writings on > Vallee's approach (e.g., "The Thickets of Magonia," IUR, > January/February 1990). I do admit to being excitable in those > days. It was, after all, the '60s. > I well remember visiting Keel's Manhattan apartment in 1967 and > seeing him, along with a young couple who were fellow believers, > brandishing gas masks in anticipation of the UT takeover of NYC, > and presumably the nation and the world. Heady stuff. The result, > where I was concerned, was a permanent cure of paranoia. I > have felt much better since then, in large part because long ago > I stopped taking either Keel or Vallee seriously. > I have written extensively on what I see as the flaws of the > paranormal/occult approach K & V champion. See, for example, > relevant entries in Volume 3 of my UFO Encyclopedia. The > second edition of the Encyclopedia, which will be out by the end > of the year, also carries extended discussions of Keel and Vallee > and their roles in this field. > Jerry Clark Jerry, Some of the most interesting facets of the relationships and history of the people involved in the UFO phenomenon isn't in the books. Thanks for your candor. Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: ACC: Ed's Back In Town From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 05:24:45 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:05:14 -0400 Subject: Re: ACC: Ed's Back In Town Just received this from the UFOR mailing list, but maybe he has planned to join others. I'm glad that he has changed his mind. Stig Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:21:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Subject: UFOR: American Computer Company calls on the DoD for an Answer! (fwd) Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9709242226.J5814-0100000@dc.seflin.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 From: acsa <acsa@ix.netcom.com> American Computer Company, which in August, posted an item about the Roswell (or earlier) Crash of a UFO that may have had components sent by the DoD to Bell Labs in the 40's that resulted, allegedly, in the Transistor being developed, http://www.american-computer.com <-- main page and http://www.american-computer.com/roswell.htm <-- roswell data --has posted a significant series of updated notes, and posted a COPY OF A LETTER TO SECRETARY OF DEFENSE WILLIAM COHEN, inviting the US Military to an open forum discussion about what all the UFO sightings, Roswell, the Transistor Allegations, etc., amounts to: http://www.american-computer.com/shadowlake_invitation.htm I will post to this mail-list notifications as I watch interesting new things evolve surrounding this interesting public "spectical". American Computer is a medium sized computer company located in Central New Jersey, founded by ex-Bell Labs and IBM computer people, and they really do make PCs and Servers (and a Supercomputer) -- I checked them out, and decided I would try to keep the many subscribers to this list up to date! Oh, by the way: usually, right after I post an article about them, one of the many people who seem to react negatively to the posting of information about the news item, usually react by questioning ACC's motives for taking on Bell Labs, Motorola and AT&T regarding this issue, which is reflected in the Memoirs of Col. (ret.) Phillip J. Corso, in his Pocket Book: "The Day after Roswell". If anyone has any questions about what's been going on since these unusual announcements (and the reactions of some people, apparently those who have something to do with one of the companies alleged by Corso to have received 'alien technologies', has been anything but normal), please feel free to email me. -- Ed Wang "All the News that's Fit to E-Mail" The Mailbox Company, Inc. --------------------------------- acsa@ix.netcom.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: stig_agermose | d005734c
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Assertions by ACC about alien computers From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 08:37:24 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:08:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Assertions by ACC about alien computers >Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:34:41 -0700 >From: Dan <geibdan@qtm.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Assertions by ACC about alien computers >I had a class in Unix once and although its editor is not alien >if you have ever seen the cryptic commands you might just think >its alien :o) Sorry if any of you UNIX folks take offense, none meant, >but gloryosky i have never used anything so abstract in my life.... >except my own code.. hahahahahahaha Dan, There are only 2 classes of people in the UNIX world: those that swear BY the vi editor, and those that swear AT it........<VBG>! As to whether it's alien or not..... I'm also confused. I'm a UNIX System Administrator with about 4 years experience, but before that I was on mainframes (ICL UK) and on DEC VMS mid-range, and I must admit that UNIX was a shock to me. My judgement on the ACC claims, is that it's POSSIBLE: UNIX appears too much to be a quick translation, in a very broad approximate fashion, of another language into English. Almost as if the translators could see what the function was doing, but couldn't quite decide what to call it, because the original language was so mis-understood, or yes, so ALIEN! I mean, there are so many UNIX commands with absolutely OBSCURE names, as if a bunch of semi- literates were appointed to provide names for commands. And this was a operating system that supposedly originated at an academic institution. Well, they produced something totally without structure, but maybe that was their intent? Just my ravings... Jakes E. Louw louwje@telkom.co.za +27 12 311-2668 082 923 6144
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Another good review of the '52 flap in DC From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 06:22:39 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:34:44 -0400 Subject: Another good review of the '52 flap in DC Please note the new Fund publication regarding the 1952 Air Force intelligence press conference on UFO sightings over Washington, DC, and later Air Force research discrediting the "temperature inversion" explanation. http://www.fufor.org/fufor-update.htm#DC1952
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings From: Chris Penrose <penrose@sfc.keio.ac.jp> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 97 19:12:57 +0900 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:33:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:36:44 -0500 To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings >I got the single frame captures by digitizing the images >using Avid Videoshop software. I then opened the raw single >frame captures in Photoshop, and pushed the resolution to 600. >Convert them to BMP's. BMP format maintains the integrity of >whatever is in the original image (color etc.) while increasing >resolution. Ok. I am a little confused here. First, what is the capture resolution that you used in Avid Video shop? The TIFF images that you sent were extremely small: 208 X 156. Was this the capture resolution you used in Avid Video Shop? Can you push the capture resolution to 640 X 480? What kind of machine, processor, memory etc. are you using? You simply can not get "more" resolution from a existing digitized image. If you scale its size, you simply are interpolating, essentially guessing, what lies in between. A commonly offered "guess" is provided by linear interpolation. If your original size was 208 X 156, then Ed's comments become more relevant. Because we are talking now about having 8-10 pixels representing this object. I am quite confident that you can get a better resolved image from your camera. The horizontal (I believe rather than the vertical) axis is an analog impression, and you may have as many as 480 vertically stacked scan lines. What are the camera's specfications? Also, is it possible to turn off compression when you capture the images? If your computer software/hardware combination (I actually have Avid Video Shop here in Japan, but I haven't used it) won't allow you to capture a full frame (640 X 480) image without compression, Manhattan is literally stuffed with graphics shops that will do this for you for a fee. Ideally, I think that a 35mm (or higher) film camera is perhaps the best capturing tool for these objects. Particularly if the objects are moving. This is ridiculously out of reach however. An analog still camera with an awesome zoom lens is not however. Using color 100 ASA film, you could potentially get some amazing stills that you could scan into a computer at extremely high resolution and have some nice images for analysis. You could even shoot black and white with 50 ASA film, but finding someone who'll deliver good prints is difficult unless you do it yourself. Having both video and stills would be a good combination. You talked earlier about desiring a digital video camera. They have a long way to go before they will come anywhere near the resolution of a 35mm still camera. You will have MPEG artifacts buried in the data, so computer enhancements will be obscured. The sfc-5 image is quite intriguing. It is larger than sfc-1. But we still need more resolution. Try to get a scan at 640 X 480 and truly consider taking some analog still pictures, especially if you make visual contact as frequently as you do. If you already have some interesting stills, find a scanner and scan them in at the highest non-interpolated resolution available. Get as much information about the equipment you use, but at least always get the make and model of any equipment used in your process. If you are worried about being able to share these high resolution pictures with the mailing list, you can leave images at ftp sites, or a web site. I have room on my web site for some big images, but the site is in Japan. Christopher Penrose penrose@sfc.keio.ac.jp
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Eddie Bullard? From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 02:34:37 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:43:50 -0400 Subject: Eddie Bullard? Dear colleagues, I have a TV company here in the UK trying to locate the phone number of folklorist Dr 'Eddie' Bullard. Can anyone help provide his phone number ? Yours Sincerely, Philip Mantle.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:02:59 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:36:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions A few words on Elizabeth Loftus. > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Scientific American 'Explains' > Abductions I haven't read her Scientific American article. But I've read her book, The Myth of Repressed Memory. It's true, of course, that (as John Velez said here) she's an experimental psychologist, not a clinician. Which is to say that she doesn't deal with the real world, but only with memory situations she creates in her laboratory. That, though, doesn't mean that her research is worthless. Take her most famous work, in which (as John mentioned) she showed that false memories could be implanted in childrens' and teenagers' minds. The key, I think, was repetition. If Loftus's subjects heard it suggested over and over again that they'd gotten lost at the mall some years before, they eventually came to believe it, and would even volunteer details they didn't realize they were making up. There's a pretty good parallel for that in the abduction world -- support groups, where people hear versions of the standard abduction tale over and over. That could, conceivably, encourage some susceptible people to believe they'd really been abducted when in fact they'd only fantasized such a thing. I'm not saying this has often happened; I simply don't know, and anyone who jumps to the conclusion that such a thing is widespread needs to remember two simple (but often forgotten) things. First, abductees are monumentally unwilling, on the whole, to believe their abductions are real. (And they're quite unstampedable, in my experience. Group-think doesn't seem to sway them much at all.) Second, many or most abductees believe they have conscious physical experiences, which is why they got involved with abduction researchers and support groups in the first place. You haven't understood this phenomenon, in my opinion, until you've been to a support group meeting and heard someone report that she woke up a few mornings ago with inexplicable orange stains on her hands and arms -- and that things like this happen to her often. Still, anyone involved in abductions has to understand that false memories CAN arise -- and that an atmosphere in which it's assumed the experiences take place could encourage that. Yet another thing to remember about Loftus is that she and other researchers concerned with False Memory Syndrome don't care much about abductions. Or at least they didn't at the start of their research. The big concern originally was false memories of sexual abuse. These, from what I've read, were encouraged by unqualified therapists who encouraged, urged, pushed, and in fact practically commanded their patients to find them. In other words, you'd go to a therapist because you felt anxious. The therapist would tell you that was often a symptom of sexual abuse. Next you'd be hypnotized, and practically told that you had buried memories of being abused. As a result of such procedures, parents sometimes lost their children, after accusations of abuse that were almost certainly false. (To clarify, I'm talking about parents of adult children -- the children would cut off all communication after coming to believe they'd been abused.) One important common denominator of these cases was an absence of other evidence -- the ONLY reason to suspect the abuse was the memories allegedly recovered by the therapist. The patient had never thought or suspected that any such thing had occured, and nobody else had seen any sign of it. Faced with this, it's not surprising that a reaction would set in. Nor is it surprising that the psychologists appalled by the sexual abuse cases would lump alien abductions into a similar category, along with accusations of satanic ritual abuse (which were similar to sexual abuse cases in that there wasn't any evidence apart from the alleged repressed memories). They don't really care much about the abduction phenomenon, and certainly haven't researched it, or even thought about it much. Loftus mentions it twice in her book, very much in passing. For instance, in one place she asks whether people with false memories should be considered sick. Not at all, she decides, saying: "Consider the fact that thousands of sane and intelligent people with no evidence of psychopathology speak in terror-stricken voices about their experience aboard flying saucers. They _remember_, clearly and vividly, being abducted by aliens." She simply takes it for granted that abduction stories are nonsense, and moves on to other things that strike her as much more important. I'm not going to condemn her for that. She's thinking what a lot of intelligent mainstream people think. How can we blame them? Abductions are pretty hard to swallow, even (or maybe especially) for abductees. This said, however, there are some real problems with her theories and her work. For one thing, she won't believe there's any such thing as repressed memory, in any situation. My sister, a psychologist with no patience for abduction stories, calls Loftus an "extremist" because of that view. This, by the way, was one of the great irresponsible failings of the Nova show on abductions. Loftus was trotted out as an expert commentator, with no mention of her previously held position that there's no such thing as repressed memory. Given her position, her views on abduction research would be predictably negative. It's more or less like asking Newt Gingrich to comment on Bill Clinton, without bothering to mention that he's a Republican. Loftus got famous at one point for court testimony in a controversial murder case. A man was put on trial solely because of a memory that had popped into his daughter's mind. She suddenly had a flashback from childhood, a vivid impression of seeing him kill one of her friends. Loftus became an expert witness for the defense, testifying that there are no grounds for believing such memories are accurate. Other psychologists would disagree. Of course the prosecution, too, had an expert witness, Lenore Terr, a psychologist whose two books on traumatic memory I strongly recommend for anyone seeking a balanced view of this complex and controversial subject. (Even though the defense eventually won this court case, on appeal.) And I don't see how Loftus can deny that these sudden flashbacks -- which psychologists sometimes call "flashbulb" memories -- really do occur. Hasn't she ever mislaid her car keys, then suddenly remembered where she'd put them? A few days ago I was walking down the street, past one of New York's many book vendors. I glanced at the books, and the author's name on one of them jumped out at me -- John R. Tunis. Suddenly I remembered that he wrote baseball books for kids, and that I'd read many of them when I was in grade school. I hadn't thought about him from that day to this...but the memory was, all at once, as vivid (probably MORE vivid) than the class I taught on Monday. Is anyone going to tell me that this memory is false? I grant, in order to be absolutely objective, that there's no way I can prove I read John R. Tunis's books, and that I wouldn't want to base a murder prosecution on my recovered memory. But...c'mon. Does anyone seriously doubt that I read the damn books? Haven't we all had experiences like that? How would Elizabeth Loftus account for them, or consider -- both theoretically and in practice -- how we might make room for the evident truth that many "recovered" memories are true? Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 300' 'Akh' described From: wlmss@peg.apc.org [Lawrie Williams] Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 23:58:49 +1000 (GMT+1000) Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:17:04 -0400 Subject: 300' 'Akh' described Posting this because of its detail. This sounds like the "akh" symbol: < I'd go "akh" if something like that flew over. Sounds like the previous Phoenix visitor, is it like the latest one? Question has to be whether it belongs to our truly exotic friends or the illegal corporate pseudo-government. If the latter, I wonder if ufo spotters and the USAF could team up to "bag" one. Lawrie Williams___________ Date: Tue, 02 Jul 96 17:11:55 GMT From: "Terry Colvin" <colvint@fhu.disa.mil> To: wlmss@peg.apc.org Subject: Jay Berner's UFO Report [1980] I hereby certify that the following facts concerning my experience with an unidentified flying object in the vicinity of Wake Forest, North Carolina in or around early October of 1980 are true and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief. 8/20/92 Jay Parrish Berner We had our encounter in the early fall of 1980. It was a wednesday or thursday around 8 o'clock at night. The temperature was in the 60's, there was almost no breeze, and the sky was extremely clear. I cannot recall what phase the moon was in, only that it was low on the horizon and not casting much light. My mother, my sister and myself had left our house on West Main street (Wake Forest,NC) to visit relatives in Henderson (NC).We were travelling west on W.Main, which eventually leads to U.S.1. We had gone approximately two miles when my mother pointed North (our right) toward what appeared to be a jet low on the horizon. As we watched we realized that it was only a few miles away and very low.At that distance all we could see were two central bright white lights positioned next to each other with smaller,dimmer red lights on each side. It looked pretty much like a jet's landing lights and navigation lights. I was an Air Force Junior Reserve Officer Training Corps cadet and was interested in joining the Civil Air Patrol, so I pointed out to my mother that no jet had any business flying that low at night, and that we should pull over to make sure it wasn't in trouble. I reasoned that if it was going to crash we would be the only ones in a position to go get help.Mom agreed and pulled over. We continued to watch it from inside the car. Although the lights looked like the lights of a jet,it quickly became apparent that it was not behaving as a jet would.It seemed to be hovering, but as we watched we saw that it was very slowly moving in our direction and would cross the road about a mile up. We all agreed that it wasn't acting like a plane and decided to drive farther up the road to get a closer look. Mom started the car and drove slowly forward while Tiffany and I kept it in sight.We had driven about a mile when we all agreed that we were directly in it's path. Mom stopped the car. It was a little closer and clearly headed straight for us.Around this time Mom and I began to agree that the thing was definitely not a plane. Mom and I got out of the car and leaned against the right fender.Mom had turned the car off but had left the keys in the ignition and the driver's side door open. We were beginning to get a little scared, but our curiosity outweighed the fear. At no time did we ever hear it make a sound.No buzz, drone, whirr, swoosh, hum, click, beep, ...nothing. If a jet were that close the whining roar would have rattled our teeth. It was about 100 to 200 feet above the trees and moving toward us at 10 to 30 miles per hour. It's lights never varied in number, position, or intensity. It's heading, speed, and altitude remained constant throughout the sighting. It of course seemed larger as it got closer, but even this seemed strange.It was Big. Substantially larger than a commercial jet. Bigger than a C-5 cargo plane, as a matter of fact. Don't forget that I was in A.F.J.R.O.T.C., and was familiar with most civilian and military aircraft. It seemed too big to be moving so slowly and silently. When it got to within a quarter of a mile I began to notice details about the structure connecting the lights. There was no 'nose' on the craft. The 'headlights' seemed to be mounted directly on the blunt front of the craft, centered and set close to each other. The wings were slightly swept back with a small, clear red light on each tip. A 'body' seemed to be behind the wings. It was still absolutely noiseless. It was three hundred feet or less above the ground and about seven hundred feet away (give or take a hundred feet) when we noticed that there did not seem to be any alerions at the back of the tapering 'body'. The body width seemed to be about the same width as the wing, but it may have been a little wider. At this point it was difficult to see because of the glare of the 'headlights'. The body stretched back from the boomerang shaped front. There was no doubt in my mind that this was an unidentified flying object. We certainly didn't know what the hell it was. I remember telling Mom that we had to pay attention, that this was very important. We began describing what we saw to each other, just to be sure we were seeing the same thing. Mom said it looked like a giant boomerang. I agreed and said a boomerang with a tail. She agreed. At no point in the sighting did our observations differ. When the object was approximately two hundred feet away a row of green lights recessed into the underside of the boomerang shaped front suddenly became visible. We did not see any hint of these soft dark green lights until the object was practically on top of us. It was exactly as if you were to walk toward a 'light well' above a desk in any modern office building. You would not see the bulb until you were underneath it. They were very clear, but not glaring. They were evenly spaced. I think they were the same size, but the ones toward the 'wing-tips' might have been slightly smaller. I wish I could be more specific, but you must understand that by this point I was experiencing a gamut of emotions. I was afraid, awed, curious, excited, and fascinated all at the same time. I tried to remain calm and observant, but I was only sixteen and it was an eerie experience. When the craft was directly above us we had an opportunity to study it in detail. For clarity's sake I will recap all of the characteristics I can remember: 1. At it's closest point the object was directly above us (90 degrees). 2. The object's altitude was three hundred feet or less. (best guess...could have been higher) 3. The object was moving at a speed of 10 to 30 miles per hour. (best guess) 4. At no time during the sighting did it's speed or altitude visibly change. 5. The object was completely silent. 6. The structure was clearly visible.It was a kind of cross between a boomerang and a semi-circle, with a body (or tail) stretching out behind it. This tail was about as wide as the boomerang was at it's widest point. 7. It was at least three hundred feet or more from 'wing-tip' to 'wing-tip'. 8. It was at least three hundred feet or more from it's leading edge to the tip of it's tail. 9. The wings and body were featureless and tapered smoothly into slightly rounded points. There were no protruberances of any kind on the tail of the craft. 10. The underside of the wings and body looked flat. 11. There were two very bright white headlights set slightly apart and mounted facing forward on the leading edge of the boomerang shaped front. 12. There were two steady clear red lights; one on each wingtip. They were considerably smaller than the headlights. Using a Pantone color wheel they were P.M.S. 185 - but clear and bright. 13. There were twelve to fourteen soft, dark green lights recessed into the underside of the boomerang shaped shaped front; six or seven in a row under each 'wing'. They formed a wide "V" pattern. Using a Pantone color wheel they were P.M.S. 3275. 14. The flat underside seemed to be illuminated by stray light from the white,red, and green lights.By this light the closest approximation I could make to the color would be a dark beige-black.Using a Pantone color wheel, locate P.M.S.470. Now cup your hand around it until you are blocking out 80 to 90 percent of the light.This is the closest I can come to it's color. The craft moved so slowly that when it was directly above us my neck was sore from staring up at it. I remember looking down at the ground, at my mother, and at my sister. Abruptly remembering that I had to pay close attention I looked back up at the craft. It was still moving at the same speed and was gradually crossing the road. We continued to watch it as it slowly moved away from us. The only additional details I saw were that the top of the craft seemed featureless, and that all of the edges seemed smooth and rounded. There may have been features up there, but between the lack of reflected light and the angle of observation we couldn't make much out. While the object approached us it was flying over a tobacco or soybean field with the tree line maybe one quarter of a mile from us. The tree line on the left side of the road was only about 20 feet away.As the object slowly headed south over these trees our view was quickly cut off.I would estimate that the entire sighting was ten to twenty minutes in duration. This is just a guess. It felt like an eternity and when it was right over us it felt like an hour. The craft never altered it's crawling pace, but my mind was racing faster the closer it got. When the trees had blocked our view completely we stood there for a few minutes and talked about what we saw (mostly in expletives!) then got back in the car and drove to my aunt's house without further incident...... ______________________________________________________snip Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 18:57:27 -0700 To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Ed Dames on the Phoenix 'Lights' Search for other documents from or mentioning: wlmss | colvint |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sighting From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 06:51:31 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:19:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sighting > From: Chris Penrose <penrose@sfc.keio.ac.jp> > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 97 18:17:30 +0900 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings Chris Penrose quotes Ed Stewart: > >Skippy is very much impressed with your power pixle, but he wanted me to > >also make it clear that skippy too felt it was very thoughtful of you to > >draw an arrow to it so that the power pixle would not be confused with > >any one of the other 12,000+ pixles in the image. > This is simply noise, Ed. It is plain hyperbole to deride > the image John presented as simply agrandizing a single > pixel. You are absolutely correct. And so is this entire thread. If John Velez is genuinely interested in having his video analysed he should submit the original for analysis and not be posturing a generational jpeg image on the internet as "evidence" of ET over Queens. [SNIP] > Also, it would be more informative if > we had access to an image that was not stored in the > lossy JPEG format. Better still, to have several > consecutive frames of video footage. In today's day and age, nothing short of the original is necessary for any accurate interpretation and analysis to be made. That is impossible to have in this medium and that is why any such thread under the guise of analysis is pure noise. This thread is not about analysing John Velez's video since it can't be done over the internet, but it is all about John Velez's personal interpretations about what he thinks the video represents and in that process he has found time to slur other types of research into the UFO problem and that is what brought into this discussion, not his video. > It is true that this "object" may be a video artifact, ... But, it is not a claim I have made in this thread. It originated as a strawman argument directly from John Velez that felt mandated to attribute to me. This thread is archived. I have asked John Velez to quote me specifically where such a claim was ever made. He can't because it is a fabrication on his part. > I do have problems with John's claim that his embossing > enhancements "prove" that the object being filmed is > 3-dimensional. The technique has revealed some cues of > seeming 3-dimensionality from the revelation of fine light > gradations, but these cues may reflect media aberrations also. > Again, the possibility of media aberations decreases > dramtically if the object appears in similar form on adjacent > video frames. Maybe if John Velez is genuinely interested in having his video analyzed he would release the original to you, but then he would be missing the opportunity of exploiting this thread and throwing slurs at other types of UFO research that have nothing to do with his video as well as posturing and grandstanding the significance of his video. Ask him if he will send you the original for an independent analysis? Ed Stewart ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart egs@netcom.com | So Man, who here seems principal alone, There is Something | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Going On! ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, Salvador Freixedo ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. --------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man -------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 9-24-97 UFO Reports: Clermont County, Ohio From: Kenny Young <task@fuse.net> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:09:22 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:35:57 -0400 Subject: 9-24-97 UFO Reports: Clermont County, Ohio Received UFO Reports on Wednesday, Sept. 24, 1997 Locations: Two separate locations - Williamsburg and Batavia - Clermont County, Ohio Witnesses known: Eight Bob XXXXXXX called and said his daughter and son wanted to tell me of something they saw moments earlier. The call was received around 8:30 p.m. There were 5-witnesses in one location, across the street from XXX University Lane, BATAVIA, OH. They spotted an object traveling from west to east. The witnesses were very anxious, and were repeatedly asked to 'slow down' so they could be understood. I spoke with Dovey and Raymond. RAYMOND XXXXX - 10 yrs. (phone #: 732-XXXX) DOVEY XXXXX - 11 yrs. old JERRY XXXXX - 9 yrs. old BRANDON XXXXX - 9 yrs. old DERRICK XXXXX - 10 yrs. old Dovey XXXXX said the object was REDDISH ORANGE and very bright, flying higher than an airplane. When asked if it could have been a meteor, she replied "I do not know." The object went behind trees, straight down. Jerry and Brandon said black things were sticking out of it. The others said purple things were sticking out of it. No airplane's were seen, and there was no sound. As the object crossed over, it left a light trail of smoke behind. The object was described as being smaller than a ping-pong ball held at arms length. Witnesses were unable to estimate distance above horizon, being unfamiliar with how to describe or characterize perceived elevation. The 'thing' was not going that fast, and got half-way across the sky and started to tilt. It was going across the sky as if 'someone was throwing a ball,' but had a slight curve and turned down. They spotted this during daylight skies. Sunset in progress, clouds were pink. Time - around 7:45 p.m. Duration of event: "1-minute" ____________________ Shortly after talking with Raymond and Dovey, I called my cousin Susan, (36 yrs. old) who lives not far (about 5-miles east) from the Batavia area in the community of AFTON, to see if they had been outdoors during the last hour or so. They said they had, and to my surprise, said they sighted a big, bright white light before 8:30 p.m. Traveling on Rt. 32, Susan spotted a white diamond-like light, similar to a teardrop. She said it was "huge, way up in the sky." The object was visible for 10-minutes. She first saw it while enroute to a location on Route 32 to pick up her husband. While pulling into a parking lot, the object was seen in the open sky, visible above the trees. The object was disregarded for about 5-minutes as she met her husband. Motorist and passenger then travelled back on 32 East toward Williamsburg and about 100 feet above tree-level in the vicinity of East Fork Lake region, the object was sighted again but much brighter. Resembling a lit candle with a glow around it. Hovered when noticed the first time, second time with path from Batavia area to East Fork. "Could have been a meteor," stated witness, "but 'not for ten minutes." She said there was no noise and no smoke, and there was no daylight visible. The object disappeared from view behind trees to the south of their location, which is in the vicinity of East Fork Lake. The husband didn't care to discuss the issue and wouldn't even acknowledge being a witness to the event. Susan's daughter Chrissy said she had also seen it. Chrissy (17 yrs. old) and boyfriend Mike XXXXXX said they saw the object for about 1-minute, and described it as a BIG, BIG white colored light. Chrissy said that an airplane next to the object would look like a tiny dot (for clarification, they said there were no other airplane's visible at the time). It was about as big as a baseball held at arms length, and flew along at treetop level, she said. The twosome were traveling into AFTON from Williamsburg, and the object was visible above the East Fork Lake area. The sighting was around 8:30 p.m. The object seemed to 'float' above East Fork Lake, without any visible movement. The white light was said to be of a diamond shape. The two witness did not maintain the observation and continued traveling home. (When asked why, Chrissy said she was mad at Mike, as they had been fighting) The object was still visible while they were driving, but they lost sight of it behind trees. Mike did not think it was a meteor, and although named by Chrissy as a witness (and could be heard in the background making additional remarks), did not feel comfortable talking about the observation. _____________________________ CLERMONT COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE: 513-732-2231, the dispatcher had no information of the sighting. He was very cordial and stated: "we get these type of reports often." _____________________________ BROWN COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPT. 937-378-4155, did not receive any calls or reports. _____________________________ HAMILTON COUNTY COMMUNICATIONS CENTER 513-825-2280, did not receive any calls or reports. _____________________________ Clermont County Airport: 735-9500 When contacted the following morning, the receptionist stated that the Airport closes at 7:00 p.m. and nobody would have been present to see the event. _____________________________ East Fork Lake Ranger's Station: 797-6081 & 734-4323: Park Office contacted at 9:15 a.m. Thursday morning, and the telephone receptionist wanted me to leave my phone number for a return phone call, and if any rangers sighted it, she said "they will call you." ______________________________ Comments: Thus far, the known reports from the 8-witnesses originate from the two localities of Batavia and Williamsburg. The two areas lie nearly 5-miles apart. Something described as 'extremely high' wouldn't seem to generate reports originating from such localized confines, as one would suspect that a high-flying meteor would be sighted across a much broader area. The time duration of the sightings makes a meteor or bolide less likely, although this explanation still may be possible. In addition to a lengthy duration of event, we also have an almost forty-five minute time discrepancy involved between the two reports. >From Williamsburg (Afton), an object was sighted around 8:30 p.m.traveling from East (said to be Batavia) to South (East Fork Lake region). The 7:45 p.m. report from Batavia described an object moving from west to east. Not only the time frame discrepancy, but the reported direction of travel conflicts in such a manner as to cause us to consider whether or not the two reports describe the same event. Even still, the similarities in reports and happening in close proximity (both in general time and location) gives us reason to believe that although this is possibly not the same event observed from two vantage points, the two reports may be related somehow to the same phenomenon. Weather & Sky conditions: Clear, no moon, temperature 60 + degrees Other: Further checks should be made to determine if this could correlate with any satellite/rocket launches or re-entries. In addition, the Wednesday night sighting could correlate with flare activity from Springfield A.N.G., as we have been previously advised that they conduct their maneuvers on 'Wednesday evenings.' Report filed: Sept. 25, 1997 Kenny Young, T.A.S.K. -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ___________ ________ ________ ____ ___ * * /__ ____/ / __ ) ( ____/ / // / * * / / / /__| | \ \ / < * * / / / ____ | ___\ \ / /\ \ * * /___/ /___/ |___| /_______) /___/ \___\ * * * * http://home.fuse.net/task/ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "Investigation without predisposition." T.A.S.K. - Tri-State Advocates for Scientific Knowledge
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:42:28 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:30:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings >From: Chris Penrose <penrose@sfc.keio.ac.jp> >Date: Wed, 24 Sep 97 18:17:30 +0900 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings >Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:35:43 -0700 >From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Skippy is very much impressed with your power pixle, but he wanted me to >>also make it clear that skippy too felt it was very thoughtful of you to >>draw an arrow to it so that the power pixle would not be confused with >>any one of the other 12,000+ pixles in the image. >This is simply noise, Ed. It is plain hyperbole to deride >the image John presented as simply agrandizing a single >pixel. The object spans at least 25 neighboring pixels, >and this is given the resolution of the image presented: >424 X 318. Also, your math is way off, there are134832 >pixels in the image that John presented. It is possible, >but John as not yet had a chance to comment, that the >original scanned image may have even greater resolution. >I am not sure of the the number of scan lines used in the >video camera that John is using, but I do know that >standard NTSC video translates directly to 640 X 480 in >the digital realm. Also, it would be more informative if >we had access to an image that was not stored in the >lossy JPEG format. Better still, to have several >consecutive frames of video footage. >It is true that this "object" may be a video artifact, but >this possibility diminishes if the object has indeed appeared >on other frames in the video sample. >I do have problems with John's claim that his embossing >enhancements "prove" that the object being filmed is >3-dimensional. The technique has revealed some cues of >seeming 3-dimensionality from the revelation of fine light >gradations, but these cues may reflect media aberrations also. >Again, the possibility of media aberations decreases >dramtically if the object appears in similar form on adjacent >video frames. >Christopher Penrose >penrose@sfc.keio.ac.jp Chris, Send me a snail mail address privately and I'll supply you with a copy of the whole video sequence (about a full minute) then you can play with it any way you like. You'll have everything you need to conduct your own analysis. I do not want the video clip re-distributed or re-published in any way without my prior consent. As long as you can agree to that, I'll dupe off a copy for you. You can report your findings back to the list. John Velez John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:26:44 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:39:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings Greetings EBK, List, and John Velez: I've been following this discussion from the outset, and, though I don't want to get involved in any shouting matches (seems like that has developed somewhat, heh), I would like to make a couple of simple points. First, let me cut and paste a comment that John made, which rather raised my concern: JV> dusty files, and dusty cases are the passtimes JV> of dusty old men who can no longer get their flattened JV> asses out of an armchair, and rightfully so. John, though you may or may not have intended this comment to sound like it did, in making it you have done a great diservice to some of the best research that has been or is being, conducted in ufology. These "dusty files and cases" you refer to are gleaned from records, many, many of them of an official nature, which appeared long before the "popularization" of UFO writing made its sweeping way into our culture. Therefore, a study of these records, articles, etc., although perhaps not nearly as exciting as skywatching, may give us a more pristine and clarified idea of exactly where the present day ideas, mythos, and actual cases did sprout from. These are the most straightforward, unembellished sources for the material that we are dealing with. I point this out, not as any denegration of your own work, but merely as something which I feel should be appreciated for its own merit. Now, as for the images you have sent out to the list... I find them interesting, but I can't seem to get as excited about them as you do. PLEASE understand that I am NOT trying to condemn you in any way, because I have not witnessed the sightings firsthand, as you have. But I have not been able to get the same results that you have from them. Is there a site where larger images from 35 mm camera shots are available? I understand how precious webspace can become, but if full-size images from high resolution shots were available, say at an FTP site, these shots could be better perused. Like I said, I'm not looking for a shouting match here, I'm just telling you that I feel that all facets of this research will better help us understand the enigma (re: dusty of files), and if you want us to understand what you're getting at about your images, you need to provide us with something to work with, instead of these tiny bitmaps and tiffs. I think you've done some good work on this stuff in the past. In fact, we even highlight some of your work on our website. Anyway, 'nuff said. Regards, Glenn Joyner Dallas, Texas ******************************************** ** Visit : http://ufo-world.simplenet.com ** ** It's a SERIOUS look at UFO phenomena ** ********************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 07:53:45 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:40:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions > From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> > To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:02:59 -0400 [SNIP] > Other psychologists would disagree. Of course the prosecution, too, > had an expert witness, Lenore Terr, a psychologist whose two books on > traumatic memory I strongly recommend for anyone seeking a balanced > view of this complex and controversial subject. Of pertinent relevance to UFO phenomena is Linda Kerth's PHd dissertation: "Pictorial Memory And UFO Phenomena: How Reliable Is Eyewitness Testimony?" (1994), approx. 225 pp., 8 1/2 X 11 spiral bound. The above was made available through CUFOS and Arcturus Books for $30.00 and may still be available. The literature and issues of flashbulb memory are reviewed as part of this PHd dissertation. Linda Kerth's faculty advisor on her dissertation was Richard Haines. Together, they also published an article in JUFOS, V.4, 1992, "How Children Portray UFOs". Ed Stewart ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart egs@netcom.com | So Man, who here seems principal alone, There is Something | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Going On! ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, Salvador Freixedo ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. --------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man -------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: UFO sighting with John Velez From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:31:26 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:57:28 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/25/97 8:55 AM: > From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> > To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez > Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:56:51 -0400 > Of course, the view is different from John's house. But one > difference is that most of the sky you can see form John's is > directly overhead. So that, it seems to me, makes it even more > unlikely to see something coming up from an airport, with lights > pointed directly toward us. > > In any case, the thing we saw had a definite shape when seen through > binoculars -- and the shape wasn't the shape of a plane. Besides, for > the entire length of the sighting (30 seconds to a minute, I'd > estimate), the look of the thing through binoculars didn't change at > all. Nor did its position. Even coming directly at us, I'd imagine a > plane would at least grow in the binoculars' field of view. I don't believe the elevation was stated in the original report, but at this point is seems possible it was a reflective pillow balloon, of the type frequently available at parks, usually filled with helium. Such an object could hang directly overhead, would reflect sunlight brightly, and could remain in sight while ascending for 30-40 secs before either exploding or shrinking beyond eye resolution. Counterproof of this would require a) Estimated angular size of object. b) Calculation of distance (altitude) from angular size and known actual size of such a balloon. c) Winds aloft at that date and time used to calculate angular speed. d) Said angular speed is much too large to allow for apparent hovering for estimated time period. This would not be a perfect counter proof, since it is perfectly possible for wind conditions in a localized area to be significantly different than overall winds aloft. A more complete analysis would simulate the speed with which a helium filled pillow balloon of this sort would rise, and would then calculate the angular size of the balloon at the end of 30-40 secs, to determine if it falls below the acuity of the normal human eye, and would also determine the normal failure altitude of such a balloon (if any). I'll look forward to seeing such an analysis should the witnesses care to perform it. ------ Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman - Original digital art, writing, and UFO research - Author of SF novels available at... http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront ------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Blood Sport in Ufology From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:04:44 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:39:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Blood Sport in Ufology > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/25/97 9:00 AM: > From: galevy@pipeline.com [Gary Alevy] > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:57:43 -0400 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Blood Sport in Ufology > > From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] > > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:06:24 PDT > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Blood Sport in Ufology > > I have written extensively on what I see as the flaws of the > > paranormal/occult approach K & V champion. See, for example, > > relevant entries in Volume 3 of my UFO Encyclopedia. The > > second edition of the Encyclopedia, which will be out by the end > > of the year, also carries extended discussions of Keel and Vallee > > and their roles in this field. For those who find the subject of interest, I have also written an article on this, which can be found at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman/paracrit.htm I will appreciate any comments, either privately, or on the list. I haven't read Jerry's material, so I am not sure how much overlap there may be. ------ Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman - Original digital art, writing, and UFIO research - Author of SF novels available at... http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront ------ Search for other documents from or mentioning: mcashman | galevy |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:36:27 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:42:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze >Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 18:37:31 -0600 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> >Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze >Greetings EBK and List: >I know that Barbara Becker has been catching some heat about the >paper she has worked up on Gulf Breeze. When Barbara first mentioned >this on the List, I responded to her, and asked to see what she had >on the subject. >Barbara has been very quick and forthright in her response and >dealings with me, and has sent me her material. >Folks, after giving it a good going over, and fully digesting what >she is talking about, I find that her investigation and research is >good, and merits a close look by anyone interested in this case. >That may mean nothing to some of you, but I can only speak for myself, >as one of the many "no-names" out here in the recipients' column. >Let me publicly give Barbara a "hats off," and thank her for pointing >me in a direction that I had not considered fully, before, in regard >to Ed Walters' claims and actions. And let me put an exclamation >point on that by saying that I was one that had not really made my >mind up about Walters and Gulf Breeze, because I felt that there were >yet unexplored and investigated facets of the case. I was still sitting >on the fence, but now find myself leaning way over to one side, on the >strength of some facts that Barbara has brought to light. >Yes, everyone needs to make their own decisions about this, but I would >advise all to not make any snap decisions without first looking at the >material. I believe that Barbara will be formatting the material for >posting on the list, if I remember what she said correctly, and look >forward to seeing discussion and peer review. >That's all I've got to say, heh. >Glenn Joyner >Dallas, Texas Glen, ebk, and all- I appreciate your comments and wish that we could all discuss this matter with the information in front of us, rather than glowing comments indicating how well thought out it is. Snap decisions are already being make about the personalities involved in this because of the lack of information, and that (IMHO) is Barbara's fault for making claims without providing documentation to back them up. She has indicated that she will do that, and we all wait with baited breath. I have contacted Bruce Maccabee about her claims, since she had indicated that he was aware of them, and he has said that he was only aware of claims she had made a while back in an obscure European cyber-zine, and he was in the process of developing a rebuttle to them. He didn't have the address of that site, and I'll contact him again when I have the actual "article". I would add that the "article" being mentioned may have nothing to do with what Bruce had found elsewhere, so he may be responding to something completely different. That you chose to contact her directly is fine, and I'm glad that you got a copy of her "article" to review. However, she chose to make statements in a public forum and propriety would seem to dictate that the discussion and evidence be submitted there. In other words, there is no reason for me to help flood someone's mailbox for details when the debate is already taking place in public. To be honest, (and again IMHO) anyone who is familiar with this list is aware of the large articles that are published here on a regular basis. The concern about the propriety of placing the "article" on this list sounds pretty thin, although it certainly could be sincere. We now wait for the article to be fine tuned, and hopefully that will be completed soon. After it's posted, the real debate can begin.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: John Lennon and the FBI From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 14:49:01 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:43:53 -0400 Subject: Re: John Lennon and the FBI Hello Errol and List, Though this is not UFO related I think it affects us in a a way. I heard today on the news that the FBI had lost its bid to deny their files on John Lennon which had been requested under the FOIA. Their contention was they could not release them because it was "a matter of National Security". Good Lord people ...what chance do we have of prying UFO information loose from the authorities when Lennon's file is toted as national security. Now that's scary. Regards, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: ACC's VP responds to George Fergus From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:35:40 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:51:38 -0400 Subject: Re: ACC's VP responds to George Fergus > From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 19:46:45 +0200 (MET DST) > Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 07:17:05 -0400 > Subject: Re: ACC's VP responds to George Fergus > >Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:22:35 -0700 > >From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) > >To: Updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: ACC's VP responds to George Fergus > Hi all, > It seems to me this transistor discussion is becoming so technical > that most people have a hard time understanding it all. Furthermore, > I am observing some aspects that are irrelevant and can be left out > of the discussion to focus on the important issues. > This reaction to a post by George Fergus appeared to come from > Jack Shulman. I understood that he is president of ACC, > not vice-president. I haven't seen an ACC employee called 'John' before, > so I assume it's the same guy as Jack, who has represented ACC > before in this debate. No Henny, this response came from ACC's VP John Schwartz. Schwartz and Shulman communicate daily on this issue. I was talking to Schwartz when the ACC case was still a new story because Shulman was constantly busy. Schwartz was (and still is) speaking to people on his behalf and on behalf of ACC. Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: UFO sighting with John Velez From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 15:24:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 17:19:03 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> >Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez >Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:31:26 -0700 >> From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >> To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> >> Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez >> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:56:51 -0400 >> Of course, the view is different from John's house. But one >> difference is that most of the sky you can see form John's is >> directly overhead. So that, it seems to me, makes it even more >> unlikely to see something coming up from an airport, with lights >> pointed directly toward us. >> In any case, the thing we saw had a definite shape when seen through >> binoculars -- and the shape wasn't the shape of a plane. Besides, for >> the entire length of the sighting (30 seconds to a minute, I'd >> estimate), the look of the thing through binoculars didn't change at >> all. Nor did its position. Even coming directly at us, I'd imagine a >> plane would at least grow in the binoculars' field of view. >I don't believe the elevation was stated in the original report, but at >this point is seems possible it was a reflective pillow balloon, of the >type frequently available at parks, usually filled with helium. >Such an object could hang directly overhead, would reflect sunlight >brightly, and could remain in sight while ascending for 30-40 secs >before either exploding or shrinking beyond eye resolution. >Counterproof of this would require > a) Estimated angular size of object. > b) Calculation of distance (altitude) from angular size > and known actual size of such a balloon. > c) Winds aloft at that date and time used to calculate angular > speed. > d) Said angular speed is much too large to allow for > apparent hovering for estimated time period. >This would not be a perfect counter proof, since it is perfectly possible >for wind conditions in a localized area to be significantly different than >overall winds aloft. >A more complete analysis would simulate the speed with which a >helium filled pillow balloon of this sort would rise, and would then >calculate the angular size of the balloon at the end of 30-40 secs, >to determine if it falls below the acuity of the normal human eye, and >would also determine the normal failure altitude of such a balloon (if >any). Hi Errol, Mark, All, Mark ends this post with, >I'll look forward to seeing such an analysis should the witnesses >care to perform it. ROFLMAO! Since when,...do 'witnesses' perform their own analysis? When has ANY discipline EVER required such a thing? Only ufology puts such demands on witnesses. It is unique in that respect. Speaking as a 'witness' sometimes it can get like an 'inquisition.' (I mean the Spanish one!<G>) It's unfair. O-K, honey, you've been raped. Now as soon as you can get yourself cleaned up and more presentable get out there, gather the evidence, and nail the bastard that did it to you! Yeah right, happens everyday. <G> One who shall remain un-named has even stooped to very personal attacks on my character, going so far as to engage in sophomoric name calling. Is this how witnesses are treated in other disciplines? No, I don't think so. What kicks me in the ass is that the guys who throw stones and try to make others 'look bad' only end up making themselves 'look bad.' In the meantime, the report and any evidence gets lost in the shuffle. Real effective eh! I'm a bit of a duffer on the computer but it is within my level of competence with the software that I own to perform a rudimentary image analysis. I have 'voluntarily' posted these images (a complete report) and the results of my own study (of my own volition) and _not_ because I felt that I "had to." Who cares what you or anyone else believes or doesn't believe, I'm just reporting it. What anyone does with the information after that is on them! I have done what my conscience dictates. I told you the truth. I went the extra mile and posted to the list what I could, (single frame captures. Which, contrary to popular belief, I can't 'post' the whole video!) and the results of a lot of work that I did on my own. In stead of being commended for my efforts, I've got fanged gasbags flying around trying to tear me a new rectal orafice! Unbelievable! Really it is. If it wasn't for the few people on this list who really care and appreciate the effort, I wouldn't post. The nasty bastards (and you know who you are) can go straight to the waiting arms of Hells Landlord for all I care. The first (serious) individual to have requested a copy of the original video is Chris Penrose. I am willing to send Chris the original 8mm videotape in the interest of truth. I have nothing to hide (and never have) nor have I EVER had any ulterior motives. Let Chris have a look see. If anyone else (who is willing and has the expertise) to conduct a _serious_ analysis of my videotape wishes a copy you may submit a request to me privately at my e-mail address. Please, serious inquiries only. You must demonstrate to me (as Chris Penrose has so more than adequately done) that you have the background and the equipment to conduct a serious study of the material. I will provide you with a copy. The only 'condition' I place is that the results of those studies are published here on UFO UpDates for all to see. This isn't about $, or "attention." I only wish that those who accuse me of that (which always turn out to be people who don't 'know me' at all!) and are only capable of thinking in those terms and evaluating others by using that yardstick,...should do something more anatomically creative with the 'stick.'<EG> "Judge not, lest ye be judged." Not waxing Biblical, just stating a fact. Getting really tired of having to swim upstream all the goddam time. I'm always willing to do what I have to, but some of this is just absurd. John Velez, Trout John Velez jvif@spacelab.net Search for other documents from or mentioning: jvif | mcashman |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:05:09 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 20:59:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> >Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:55:58 -0700 >For instance, an experiment to prove that the speed of light is not constant >faces a pretty tough road, had better work every time for everyone >who tries it, and had better have no methodlogical flaws. Hello Mark, Hello Loy I'd like to interject here if I could. I am one of the people that believes that the speed of light is not constant. My reasoning for this is simple. When any lesser medium passes through a greater medium it will lose speed due to friction. IE if a bullet was to pass through water it would slow up a lot quicker that when it passes through air. Well light is a lesser medium and the universe is a greater medium. However the greater medium also possesses within itself greater and lesser mediums. IE "empty space" and a solar system. Therefore if a "point" of light left point A and travelled through "empty space" it would travel faster and further than a other "point" of light that travels through galaxy's would'nt it? We could add further complications into this equation like the effect that black holes have on light. There are things in the universe billions of years older than our human race. They are vast, they are timeless. If they are aware of us at all we are of no more consequence to them as ants are to us. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/ <----updated.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: UK.UFO.NW corrected urls for Dan Sherman From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 20:23:51 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 01:32:49 -0400 Subject: Re: UK.UFO.NW corrected urls for Dan Sherman UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK Our appologies for an error which crept into the latest issue of the e-zine {81}. To download the Real Audio files of Dan Shermans interview on 'Sightings On The Radio' please use the below urls and not those stated in the e-zine. http://web.ukonline.co.uk/colin.light/uk-ufo-nw/sounds/dan_pt1.ra http://web.ukonline.co.uk/colin.light/uk-ufo-nw/sounds/dan_pt2.ra http://web.ukonline.co.uk/colin.light/uk-ufo-nw/sounds/dan_pt3.ra http://web.ukonline.co.uk/colin.light/uk-ufo-nw/sounds/dan_pt4.ra -------------------------- ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk United Kingdom UFO Network http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk --------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: ACC: MAKE IT STOP From: RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates] Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 22:35:50 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 01:36:27 -0400 Subject: Re: ACC: MAKE IT STOP > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 18:04:13 +0200 (MET DST) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: ACC: MAKE IT STOP! > >From: XianneKei@aol.com [Rebecca Keith] > >Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 00:28:23 -0400 (EDT) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: ACC: MAKE IT STOP > >'nuff said! > >Rebecca > I hereby urge Bob Wolf and others to continue researching this > issue, which is the most interesting developing story at the > moment. Finally some people - Jack Shulman and Co. - have the balls > to lay the whole Roswell affair on the plates of the highest in > authority in the USA and pursue this matter with the vigor it > deserves. > 'nuff said! Personally I couldn't care less if Bob Wolf spends his entire life researching ACC. The simple reality as admitted not long ago by ACC is that these tales are just rumor and gossip that they breathlessly posted on their web site. You know like the April 24th 1997 mass landings, not to mention the entire Yellowbook tale that was an absolute assured fact according to insider-intelligence-sources-who-were-never-wrong. Like Lee Shargel and the Jan 24th 1997 would be the big day for humanity, ET radio waves were going to bathe the earth. Never happened. Then we had the mid March 1997 "the landings are happening right now at Trinity." New Mexico that is. Never happened. Point is that the Internet is a spawning ground for every tale/story that can be imagined. Gulliable fools naturally believe "Well if its posted on a Web site, its the God's Gospel absolute truth to never be doubted."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 26 Survey for UFO Researchers From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 22:51:45 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 01:45:38 -0400 Subject: Survey for UFO Researchers Greetings List Members Barry Greenwood would like to do an survey of knowledgeable UFO researchers. If you wish, you may post your answers to this list, or send them to me, or answer anonymously by mailing your questionaire to: CAUS P. O. Box 176 Stoneham, MA 02180 You may simply answer yes or no, or include a few words or long essay with your opinions. It will be of great interest to see if there is a common consensus on the important UFO cases. Please indicate what E-Mail list you are on: Project 1947 Currently Encounters UFO Updates Other list (please indicate list) [Other lists, please feel free to cross-post.] Questions: I. Please list the ten most important UFO cases. Please list cases by date and location. If you wish, you may also tell why they are important. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10. II. Considering what has been done in the last 50 years, and the situation today, what should be the next step for ufology? III. Government involvement in the UFO problem. 1. Is there a government cover up or foul up? Cover-up Foul up Other (please specify) 2. To what exent is/are the government(s) involved: A. United States (everyone may answer this question): Major involvement Minor involvement Not Interested B. If you are not a US resident, indicate country and government involvement: Major involvement Minor involvement Not interested IV. Abduction phenomenon. 1. Is the abduction phenomenon part of the UFO problem? Yes No Cannot determine at this time 2. Is the study of the abductions important to understanding the ufo problem? Yes No Do not know V. Paranormal phenomena 1. Is the UFO phenomenon related to paranormal phenomena such as psi, ghost, fortean phenomena, etc.? Yes No Cannot determine at this time 2. Should the study of the paranormal be part of UFO studies? Yes No Do not know IV. The probably answer(s) to the UFO phenomenon is/are [you may choose more than one--if so, please indicate order of importance by "1st, 2nd, etc"]: Extraterrestial Parallel universe Time travelers Little understood natural phenomenon/phenomena Secret man-made phenomenon Misidentification of man-made and natural phenomena Psycho-sociological phenomenon/phenomena Occult phenomenon/phenomena Other (please specify) Cannot determine at this time As you can see, this is not a survey that can be done in five minutes. Please take your time. Thank you, the results will be posted to the lists and in JUST CAUSE. -- Jan Aldrich E-mail: jan@cyberzone.net Project 1947 http://www.iufog.org/project1947/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions From: viggo.andersen@post3.tele.dk (Andersen, Viggo) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 05:11:10 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 01:48:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions >Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:02:59 -0400 >A few words on Elizabeth Loftus. <snip> >That, though, doesn't mean that her research is worthless. Take her >most famous work, in which (as John mentioned) she showed that false >memories could be implanted in childrens' and teenagers' minds. The >key, I think, was repetition. If Loftus's subjects heard it suggested >over and over again that they'd gotten lost at the mall some years >before, they eventually came to believe it, and would even volunteer >details they didn't realize they were making up. Unless there has been more than one experiment about getting lost at a mall there weren't any children and not just teenagers among the subjects; they were aged 18 to 53. Source: SciAm Sept. 97, Loftus, "Creating False Memories." <snip> >This said, however, there are some real problems with her theories >and her work. For one thing, she won't believe there's any such thing >as repressed memory, in any situation. My sister, a psychologist with >no patience for abduction stories, calls Loftus an "extremist" >because of that view. This is what Loftus has to say in the SciAm article: "Of course, simply because we can implant false childhood memories in some individuals in no way implies that all memories that arise after suggestion are necessarily false. Put another way, although experimental work on false memory creation may raise doubt about the validity of long-buried memories, such as repeated trauma, it in no way disproves them. Without corroboration, there is little that can be done even the most experienced evaluator to differentiate true memories from ones that are suggestively planted." <snip> >Other psychologists would disagree. Of course the prosecution, too, >had an expert witness, Lenore Terr, a psychologist whose two books on >traumatic memory I strongly recommend for anyone seeking a balanced >view of this complex and controversial subject. (Even though the >defense eventually won this court case, on appeal.) And I don't see >how Loftus can deny that these sudden flashbacks -- which >psychologists sometimes call "flashbulb" memories -- really do occur. >Hasn't she ever mislaid her car keys, then suddenly remembered where >she'd put them? That's normal forgetting and remembering, not repressed and recovered memory. I hardly think that Loftus has ever denied that there is such a thing as normal forgetting and remembering. Viggo.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: UFO sighting with John Velez From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 02:23:01 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 08:30:37 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO sighting with John Velez John's response to my last post, and some of the other items which have been exchanged on the subject seem to me to be signs that this is getting out of hand. I certainly have no intent of providing offense to John, and, frankly, if it hadn't been for some of his flames directed at researchers engaged in historical pursuits, I had really intended to hang back and not comment specifically on his sighting. Why? First, because I am a researcher, rather than an investigator. That's personal preference and allocation of time, though I have done a small amount of investigation. Second, because I was afraid that this is what would result when trying to deal with someone's sighting on the Internet, especially when it is clear that a fair amount of interpretation has already been assigned to this sighting by the witness. Flames and counterflames. I'd like to return to the way in which, in my view, an investigation is carried out, because I think in the case of both John, and earlier, Jose, this led to a good deal of misunderstanding and unnecessary anger. (I'd also like to point out that these procedures are even more rigorously followed when I see something odd. Interest in UFOs by a witness is a factor that I consider makes it much more difficult to be sure of uncontaminated data. To have a UFO investigator who sees something can be even more fraught with peril, and to BE both witness and unbiased investigator is almost impossible - thus, procedures, carefully followed, as a safeguard). 1) Assume that the sighting is of a normal object. This is typically a safe bet. 70-90% of all sightings are probably normal objects seen under abnormal conditions or otherwise misinterpreted. 2) Conjecture possible normal causes and establish conditions of proof and disproof for those hypotheses. Even unlikely hypotheses must be considered. I refer you to the case of Coral Lorenzen's cloud cigar, which turned out to be an unusual contrail. 3) Check everything possible and extract every bit of data. Give little or no weight to apparent size or distance unsupported by triangulation. Use any angular measurements possible to bolster or destroy a hypothesis. Call every resource to determine if an aircraft, balloon, or other mundane occurrence may be responsible for the sighting. If there are other witnesses, in other locations, no matter how close, use them to help derive triangulation, with a healthy respect for sources of error. 4) Be aggressive with 1-3 above until the data literally forces you to support the case as an unknown. Even when the case is classed unknown, be cautious if little or no strangeness is present, or if the durations are very short or very long. Also be cautious when there are many similar sightings or many photos in one area over one period of time or produced by one witness. 5) If the sighting survives 1-4, then assess its quality. Does it contribute something important to the study of UFOs? This is very unlikely for NL or distant DD cases, except in the few cases where reliable triangulations can be used to document energy output (NL) or size (NL/DD) or where instrumentation (i.e. filters, magnetic field measurment equipment, radiation counters) show something unusual, or where the manuvers and a known distance allow assessment of acceleration/speed. Large angular size NL cases which do not show anomalous trajectories, accelerations or luminous structure are also not particularly useful. What are needed are cases which show features of structure, luminosity, manuvering, or physical effects. These are the most important cases and require the most intense focus. Unfortunately, they are also the least common, even among unknowns. Now, it's true I suggested that the witnesses carry out some computations to evaluate the balloon hypothesis. Why was that? Was it just to offend them, or to cast aspersions on their perceptions or evaluation of same? No. It was simply because they are the only ones who can do this. Angular size, elevation, and azimuth from each of the witnesses have not been made available (unless I've missed that also). Without them, one cannot do the calculations. But, presumably, the witnesses may still be capable of estimating these if they have not yet done so. John, what I'm after are carefully and aggressively filtered unknowns with details sufficient to supply some level of scientific information. But, as I mentioned a fair amount of time before, I can't go to the site to investigate the case. All I can do is make suggestions. And it seems to me we are still in phase 2-3, but I suspect you think we are at or past 5. Obviously, this will lead to conflict. I don't think there's much more I can offer than this. ------ Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman - Original digital art, writing, and UFO research - Author of SF novels available at... http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront ------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 02:23:23 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 08:28:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/25/97 8:59 PM: > Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:05:09 +0100 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > I am one of the people that believes that the speed of light is not > constant. My reasoning for this is simple. > When any lesser medium passes through a greater medium it will lose > speed due to friction. IE if a bullet was to pass through water it > would slow up a lot quicker that when it passes through air. > Well light is a lesser medium and the universe is a greater medium. > However the greater medium also possesses within itself greater and > lesser mediums. IE "empty space" and a solar system. > Therefore if a "point" of light left point A and travelled through > "empty space" it would travel faster and further than a other "point" of > light that travels through galaxy's would'nt it? > We could add further complications into this equation like the effect > that black holes have on light. Thanks for raising this issue, Sean, which I'm sure can generate a number of misunderstandings. To the best efforts of science, the speed of light has been demonstrated to be a constant. In fact, this is at the root of some of the weirder predictions of relativity, all of which have been tested over and over again, and proven by repetition and constant challenge to be effectively true. That is one of the most important foundations for accepting the speed of light as a constant. If it were not, the various effects observed in relativity, including the lengthening and shortening of objects traveling at high relative speeds, would probably not be observed. But they are. There's no question that the nature of light defies common sense. A photon of light maintains the same apparent speed whether you travel toward it or away from it. No other phenomenon in the universe demonstrates this odd behavior. Photons are odd objects, which are in some ways like waves and in other ways like particles. However, they do not experience slowing due to distance travelled, or any other effect. The only spatial effect which light shows is variation in wave frequency as one approaches or goes away from a light source. This Doppler effect is the foundation of the work which demonstrates the expansion of the universe. Light can also be diverted or its frequency changed by a number of other things, such as changes in the density of the medium, gravitational, and electromagnetic fields. But again, none of this changes its speed. ------ Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman - Original digital art, writing, and UFO research - Author of SF novels available at... http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront ------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 08:23:31 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 08:32:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality >Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:01:32 -0400 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> snip >The integrated circuit, as we conceived and developed it at Fairchild >Semiconductor in 1959, and >Since then additional techniques have been devised that give the >designer of integrated circuits more flexibility, but the basic >methods were available by 1960, and the era of the integrated circuit >was inaugurated. Now that's precisely what sounds odd to me: It only took months for AT&T to go from germanium diodes to full production of silicon chips, but it took other companies another TWELVE YEARS to produce the integrated circuit! Give me a BREAK! Jakes E. Louw louwje@telkom.co.za +27 12 311-2668 082 923 6144
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: Loy Pressley <lpressle@webwide.net> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 06:37:41 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 08:36:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:05:09 +0100 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > >Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:55:58 -0700 > I'd like to interject here if I could. > I am one of the people that believes that the speed of light is not > constant. My reasoning for this is simple. > When any lesser medium passes through a greater medium it will lose > speed due to friction. IE if a bullet was to pass through water it > would slow up a lot quicker that when it passes through air. > Well light is a lesser medium and the universe is a greater medium. > However the greater medium also possesses within itself greater and > lesser mediums. IE "empty space" and a solar system. > Therefore if a "point" of light left point A and travelled through > "empty space" it would travel faster and further than a other "point" of > light that travels through galaxy's would'nt it? > We could add further complications into this equation like the effect > that black holes have on light. I see what you're getting at but I think that light, being both a particle and a wave, is supposed to compensate for the observed variation in speed of other things that pass through different mediums by bending instead of slowing down. I think, according to Einstein, the observed 'defraction' of light is what occurs rather than a change in velocity. The Hubble space telescope recently imaged a case where light from a more distan t galaxy was bent or refracted by the gravity of another galaxy situated between the telescope and the more distant galaxy. Now, having said all that, be it understood that I am no physicist! It just seems to me that, if light did change speed, there would be no refraction of the light around the intervening galaxy. Perhaps someone else has a better explanation. Your original statements make perfectly logical sense to me and could, for all I know, be correct. I think it will be awhile before we can send someone out the billion or so light years that would be necessary to conduct on site experiments to physically measure the effect found by Hubble. Until then, the statement tha t what was observed to occur is, in fact, a fact, cannot be made; therefore, your supposition is as good as anyone else's until that time. Einstein said that the speed of light is the speed limit of this universe. So, if (and that's a big IF) one were to exceed the speed of light, you could no longer be in this universe. To bring this back to UFOs and assuming that UFOs are extraterrestrial and that the speed of their transportation system must exceed the speed of light in order to make visiting this world practical, where are they when they are moving faster than the speed of light? Is 'where' even a relevant term in this case? Loy Search for other documents from or mentioning: lpressle | tedric |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 97 19:40:00 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 16:11:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze >Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 18:37:31 -0600 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> >Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze > I was still sitting on the fence, but now find myself > leaning way over to one side, on the strength of some > facts that Barbara has brought to light. Please keep in mind that what Barbara offers is not "facts" but "allegations"... Nothing against Barbara, since I haven't even seen what she has to offer... I just wanted to say that "You can't believe everything you read as fact"... otherwise I've got some waterfront Florida property I'd like to sell ya. <g> Roger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 26 BWW Media Alert 970926 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 05:30:40 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 16:14:22 -0400 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970926 Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 E-mail: BufoCalvin@aol.com Website: http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin ( <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/B ufoCalvin/index.html">BufoCalvin's Home Page</A> ) TAP (The Address Project) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD e-zine Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Books ( <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/weirdware/books.htm l">Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Books</A> ) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert provided that attribution is made to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with strangers before you e-mail them something. If you forward this, please make sure it is clear that you are forwarding it). September 26, 1997 Well, I thought I'd have time to get this done this morning, but I don't. Going to send what I have, and then I'll supplement if I can. Note the block of Castle Ghosts shows on THE LEARNING CHANNEL on Sunday. The SCI-FI CHANNEL's website has kind of a strange numbering for this week's eps of MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES. It indicates repeats in the middle of the week, which would be atypical. I'll see if I can get them listed... ON-LINE OMNI MAGAZINE (http://www.omnimag.com <A HREF="http://www.omnimag.com">Omni M agazine</A> ) is back to do real time conferences. The regular night for our kind of stuff is Tuesday 7:00 PM to 8:00 PM Pacific. UK.UFO.NW (tons of irc addresses, the channel is #UFO), 3:00 PM (Pacific), Saturday, RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE is now SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO. This has resulted, among other things, in a new website: http://www.sightings.com. <A H REF="http://www.sightings.com">SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO</A> Next week's guests not known (except for Michael Lindemann ...he'll be on at 6:00 PM Wednesday as I write this, but you can check their website on Monday. It can also be heard on your computer. Airtimes: M-F 6-9 PM Pacific (times given here are generally Pacific),. Sunday 8-11 PM Pacific. Archives of earlier shows are also available, so you can hear my previous broadcasts through this site. SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE? --week of 9/15, blind woman drives; Mom knows daughter needs help LOOKING BEYOND --week of 9/27, alien in grave, healers, cattle mutilations, ESP and lightning, obsessed with bigfoot PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com for stations and airdates and other info). This series is supposedly based on real cases. --Week of 9/13, DEATH AT SUNSET; COLLISION (soul transfer of car accident victim to driver) Saturday, September 27 RADIO: ART BELL interviews Bob Lazar and Gene Huff. This show actually starts Friday night at 11:00 PM Friday and goes until 2:00 AM. Lazar is at the center of the Area 51/reverse-engineered UFO controversy. I've got one video on Lazar Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Books ( <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/ obidos/ISBN=6303322883/bufosweirdworldA/">Bob Lazar: Excerpts on Government</A > )(see website at http://www.artbell.com) RADIO: THE EDGE OF REALITY, 5:00 PM -8:00 PM Pacific. Also available on Satcom C5, Transponder 23, SEDAT Channel 24. The specific spots have to be considered tentative, and the station in your area may run it tape-delayed. I've found out recently that the one in my area even runs it out of order, running the third hour first! 5:00 PM, Leonard Nimoy (in addition to Star Trek, of course, he has hosted IN SEARCH OF and ANCIENT MYSTERIES...I'm going to check on listing videos from these series); 5:30 PM, Patricia Einstein, author of Intuition - The Path to Inner Wisdom : A Guide to Discovering and Using Your Greatest Natural Resource ( <A HREF="http://www. amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1862041369/bufosweirdworldA/">Intuition - The Path to Inner Wisdom : A Guide to Discovering and Using</A> ); 6:00 PM, something on UFOs; 7:00 PM, Nicolette Phillips, author on Evil & Satanic Forces; um...sometime, John Randolph Price, author and lecturer (I'll be setting up a few books and tapes on the website, like <A HREF="http://www.ama zon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0449909832/bufosweirdworldA/">Angel Energy : How to H arness the Power of Angels in Your Everyday Life</A> and <A HREF="http://www. amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1561703605/bufosweirdworldA/">A Spiritual Philosop hy for the New World : The 60-Day Non-Human Program</A> , his latest) 2:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: MISSING APEMEN (yeti, bigfoot) Sunday, September 28 SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND: Art interviews John Zajac, author of THE DELICATE BALANCE: COMING CATASTROPHIC CHANGES ON PLANET EARTH ( <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0910311579/bufosweirdworldA/"> The Delicate Balance: Coming Catastrophic Changes on Planet Earth</A> )(see http://www.artbell.com) LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 7:00 PM: JOURNEY: Brenda Roberts produces. 11:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5062): 12:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD, SEA MYSTERIES (includes mermaids) 1:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT? (includes haunted houses) 2:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED, 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#50 5:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, CASTLE GHOSTS OF SCOTLAND 6:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, CASTLE GHOSTS OF IRELAND 7:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, CASTLE GHOSTS OF WALES 8:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, CASTLE GHOSTS OF SCOTLAND 9:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, CASTLE GHOSTS OF IRELAND 10:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, CASTLE GHOSTS OF WALES 10:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#506 Monday, September 29 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.strangeuniverse.com (( <A HREF="http://www.strangeuniverse.com" >Strange Universe</A> )) for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: Brenda Roberts produces. 10:01 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (# Tuesday, September 30 SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.strangeuniverse.com for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:01 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (# 7:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, PSI-FILES: THE REAL X-FILES (psychics and remote viewers) 10:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, PSI-FILES: THE REAL X-FILES (psychics and remote viewers) Wednesday, October 1 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.strangeuniverse.com for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:01 AM, , THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (# Thursday, October 2 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.strangeuniverse.com for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:01 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#2 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#50) 7:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED, 8:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#50 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD, 11:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED, NOAH'S FLOOD Friday, October 3 LOCAL RADIO, 8:00 PM (Pacific Time) WGBB 1240 AM, New York: THE JOYCE KELLER SHOW: the host is a psychic who helps callers. Phone number is 516-955-1240 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.strangeuniverse.com for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD, 10:01 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (# This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before. _____________________________ **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. ______________________________ <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/weirdware/books.html">Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Books </A>I'm very excited about this! Some of you know, I ran a bookstore for years, and it has always been a love of mine. I get asked often to recommend books (I do write reviews for several publications) on these topics, and now I can do it and actually give you a source for them at the same time! This is being done in association with Amazon.com, which has an outstanding reputation for the five "S"s of internet shopping: selection, searchability, service, savings, and security. If there is any specific book you want (or topic in which you are interested), let me know and I will do the research and e-mail you a link you can use to check it out more (and order it if you want). I will be linking to books within the Media Alert, to make it more efficient for you. If you click on the link, you will be sent to that title on Amazon. You do =not= have to buy it at that point! You may, but the option is yours.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 26 Chairman Of Joint Chiefs: US Safe From Aliens From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 14:25:43 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 16:13:49 -0400 Subject: Chairman Of Joint Chiefs: US Safe From Aliens Found on Ufomind's "What's New" page in the "Area 51 Mailing List" section. URL at the bottom of this item. Shalikashvili: U.S. safe from aliens [news] From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:25:11 -0800 Date: Wed, 24 SEP 1997 12:11:04 PDT WASHINGTON, Sept. 24 (UPI) -- Americans should sleep soundly at night with no fears of an alien abduction -- because the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff certainly does. Gen. John Shalikashvili made his revelation during a question-and-answer session at the National Press Club today. After responding to questions about pressing issues such as Bosnia, military down-sizing and sexual misconduct scandals, the Clinton administration's top military advisor fielded one from deep out of left field. The question, read by a moderator, asked Shalikashvili if the United States had been truthful about threats the country faces from aliens traveling in unidentified flying objects. It claimed a recent survey showed a sizable percentage of Americans fear abduction by aliens. That prompted Shalikashvili, who came to the United States as a teen, to quip, "Am I the alien they're talking about?" On a slightly more serious note, he said he believes U.S. military officials have been completely forthcoming about extraterrestrials. Some people believe the government has covered up evidence that a flying saucer crashed in New Mexico 50 years ago, but Shalikashvili, who retires next week, said no evidence exists. He concluded, "I sleep well at night without the fear an alien being is going to capture me." Index: Official Government Investigations of UFOs Mothership -> Area 51 -> List -> 1997 -> Sep -> Here Our Original Text Copyrighted =A9 1994-97 Area 51 Research Center PO Box 448, Rachel, NV 89001. Glenn Campbell, Webmaster This site is supported by the Research Center Bookstore Please visit our business if you appreciate our free web services. Send us corrections using this Feedback Form or email webmaster@ufomind.com This page: http://www.ufomind.com/area51/list/1997/sep/a26-002.shtml =BF(9/26/97 7:39) * *** ***** ******* =BF*********=BF Created: Sep 26, 1997 Search for other documents from or mentioning: stig_agermose | campbell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@yorku.ca> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 09:41:26 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:23:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > >Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:55:58 -0700 > >For instance, an experiment to prove that the speed of light is not constant > >faces a pretty tough road, had better work every time for everyone > >who tries it, and had better have no methodlogical flaws. > Hello Mark, Hello Loy > I'd like to interject here if I could. > I am one of the people that believes that the speed of light is not > constant. My reasoning for this is simple. > When any lesser medium passes through a greater medium it will lose > speed due to friction. IE if a bullet was to pass through water it > would slow up a lot quicker that when it passes through air. > Well light is a lesser medium and the universe is a greater medium. > However the greater medium also possesses within itself greater and > lesser mediums. IE "empty space" and a solar system. > Therefore if a "point" of light left point A and travelled through > "empty space" it would travel faster and further than a other "point" of > light that travels through galaxy's would'nt it? > We could add further complications into this equation like the effect > that black holes have on light. The speed of light is constant in a uniform medium although we all know that it is not constant in all mediums. Light will slow down as it goes through a denser medium and it will speed up again when it enters a less dense medium. A bullet cannot do this so the reasoning behind your belief why the speed of light is not constant is faulty. Of course, there are historical evidences that the speed of light is slowing down with time and there are many other sound arguments that try to show that the speed of light must have been faster in the past than it is now. Would you be interested in the details for these evidences and arguments? Nick Balaskas
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #184 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 09:40:33 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:24:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #184 Apology to MW #184 (For September 26, 1997) Here's something clever All the agencies know. It's what keeps them in your clover; It's what keeps them up your nose. It's what keeps them in your business As you try to measure up. But the scale's always changing, And you breath on giving up. A clever device, worked in through one's culture. Control all the spice, is the way that it's done. Compel all the motes to give up their center To a club, they're convinced, that would make it all run! Think of the power -- individual thought=85 Power to drive trucks, and swinging hammers. Power that completes the dirty, dangerous job. Power that can slap a face, distress 'the man' to stammers. The individual's key, in word and thought and deed. And it's always been that true -- that coldly simple. A team can do the grand, but you fail to understand; It's the singles on a team that make it twinkle. This is your importance, and how you've _earned_ your center. This is why you're key, YOU MAKE THINGS WORK! If it wasn't just for _you_ the system crumbles down from view. Yet, you're the one that's made to feel useless, fain, a jerk. You are yourself, yes, you alone, The object that they seek! It's to you they turn their energies. It's to you they burn and squeak. It's to you they print their papers! It's to you they run their ads. It's to you manipulations They can work to drive you mad. See, it's you that buys the car, spends electric, pays the bills. See, it's you they have to fool to keep you paying. And it wouldn't be half bad if they gave some back, it's sad, But the richest get the richer, and continue with their preying. Yet it's you who roofs their house, sets their tiles, tends their landscape. It's you that builds the places they inhabit. You should feel no resentment, and would feel a just contentment, But they charge for ground you walk on -- and they really let you have it. Sure there're lots of you, it's the system; they invent it. If there are lots and lots of you, you lose your value. You're then easier to control, then continue to extol The system that works hard to disallow you. A smaller population, then, has more control its center. The conscious mote has value on its mind. Effort then expended is to find themselves dependent On the mercies of your grace, they're shocked to find! This is why our watchers are in enigmatic hiding. This is why they won't meet you and me. This is why we sit alone, and why we listen for the phone. This is why for all discussion, we're not free. It all comes down to you and the message that you're feeling. It's down to you and power _you give up_. It's you that drives the truck, swings the hammer, spends your bucks It's you that has the power in your hand -- so fill your cup! Lehmberg@snowhill.com You just give it over never expecting to have to _take_ it back. The training is against it! -- Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for speculating on the value of the individual. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" Personal HARASSMENT; however, the harassment index is infinite for each of us. Consider the one who makes out you don't count!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 10:40:49 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:26:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze Greetings EBK, List, and Steven: >Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:36:27 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze I said: >>I know that Barbara Becker has been catching some heat about the >>paper she has worked up on Gulf Breeze. When Barbara first mentioned >>this on the List, I responded to her, and asked to see what she had >>on the subject. >>Barbara has been very quick and forthright in her response and >>dealings with me, and has sent me her material. [snipping my own stuff for brevity] Steven said: >Glen, ebk, and all- >I appreciate your comments and wish that we could all discuss this matter >with the information in front of us, rather than glowing comments >indicating how well thought out it is. Snap decisions are already being >make about the personalities involved in this because of the lack of >information, and that (IMHO) is Barbara's fault for making claims without >providing documentation to back them up. She has indicated that she will >do that, and we all wait with baited breath. I won't presume to speak for Barbara on this, but I can tell you why I perceive the article is late in getting up on the list. What Barbara sent me was a draft of some pretty straightforward research that she has done. I found it had merit. She has been having trouble formatting it for text, and told me that she hopes to have it up by this evening. >I have contacted Bruce Maccabee about her claims, since she had indicated >that he was aware of them, and he has said that he was only aware of claims >she had made a while back in an obscure European cyber-zine, and he was in >the process of developing a rebuttle to them. He didn't have the address >of that site, and I'll contact him again when I have the actual "article". >I would add that the "article" being mentioned may have nothing to do with >what Bruce had found elsewhere, so he may be responding to something >completely different. I know absolutely nothing about the above, but I can assure you that what I perused of Barbara's had nothing at all to do with Maccabbee. What this concerns is completely out of his area of expertise. I would say that a business lawyer would be much more qualified to comment on it than a physicist or an optical expert. 8+) >That you chose to contact her directly is fine, and I'm glad that you got a >copy of her "article" to review. However, she chose to make statements in >a public forum and propriety would seem to dictate that the discussion and >evidence be submitted there. In other words, there is no reason for me to >help flood someone's mailbox for details when the debate is already taking >place in public. I understand, and agree. As I said, I can't speak for Barbara, and won't. I believe she will have it up this evening, after repairing the formatting problems. I just think that her research has indicated some profound irregularities that should be addressed. There is, of course, no reason for me to say much more, until she puts the piece up. >To be honest, (and again IMHO) anyone who is familiar with this list is >aware of the large articles that are published here on a regular basis. >The concern about the propriety of placing the "article" on this list >sounds pretty thin, although it certainly could be sincere. Steven, I'm not going to comment on the above, because I have no way of knowing Barbara's interpretation of list etiquette. I do, though, think she should present her article to the list, before anyone draws and quarters her for it, heh. I'm patient enough, usually. >We now wait for the article to be fine tuned, and hopefully that >will be completed soon. After it's posted, the real debate can begin. Absolutely. That's the spirit of the list that we're all looking for. The only preface I will make is that I don't know Barbara, had no prior knowledge of her stance on this issue, and examined what she had come up with as a totally unbiased party. I hope everyone else will do the same. As for debate, I will likely just observe, for the information is less debatable [since it deals with what I view as factual material, rather than conjecture] than most opinionated works. Regards from the prairielands, Glenn Joyner Dallas, Texas ******************************************** ** Visit : http://ufo-world.simplenet.com ** ** It's a SERIOUS look at UFO phenomena ** ********************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 08:36:27 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:27:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 02:23:23 -0700 > > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/25/97 8:59 PM: > > Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:05:09 +0100 > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > > I am one of the people that believes that the speed of light is not > > constant. My reasoning for this is simple. > > When any lesser medium passes through a greater medium it will lose > > speed due to friction. IE if a bullet was to pass through water it > > would slow up a lot quicker that when it passes through air. > > Well light is a lesser medium and the universe is a greater medium. [...] > To the best efforts of science, the speed of light has been demonstrated to > be a constant. In fact, this is at the root of some of the weirder predictions > of relativity, all of which have been tested over and over again, and proven > by repetition and constant challenge to be effectively true. That is one of > the most important foundations for accepting the speed of light as a > constant. If it were not, the various effects observed in relativity, includin g > the lengthening and shortening of objects traveling at high relative speeds, > would probably not be observed. But they are. > [...] > Photons are odd objects, which are in some ways like waves and in other > ways like particles. However, they do not experience slowing due to > distance travelled, or any other effect. The only spatial effect which light > shows is variation in wave frequency as one approaches or goes away > from a light source. > This Doppler effect is the foundation of the work which > demonstrates the expansion of the universe. Light can also be diverted > or its frequency changed by a number of other things, such as changes > in the density of the medium, gravitational, and electromagnetic fields. > But again, none of this changes its speed. This topic seems pretty far out of range of UFO Updates. But where do you come up with such stuff, Mark? The speed of light does depend upon the medium it passes through, and its density. Variations of density thus cause bendings of the light's wave fronts, resulting in refraction and scintillation, mirages, etc. It's the speed of light in a vacuum that's a constant. Look up the definition of the index of refraction some time. It is the ratio of the speed of light within a vacuum to its speed within the particular medium in question. For glass, the ratio is around 1.5; for water, 1.33, but it depends somewhat upon the wavelength. What's more interesting for me to consider is: since the "vacuum" is really a hugely energetic sea of virtual electromagnetic particles winking in and out of existence on extremely short time scales, how does it affect the transmission of light? Jim Deardorff Search for other documents from or mentioning: deardorj | mcashman |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 26 UFO Nearly Hit 747 Near Philly From: Kenny Young <task@fuse.net> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 14:17:25 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:29:26 -0400 Subject: UFO Nearly Hit 747 Near Philly UFO Nearly Hit 747 Near Philly Source: THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Friday, September 26, 1997 ZURICH, Switzerland (AP) -- An unidentified, wingless object traveling at high speed passed dangerously close to a Swissair jetliner between Philadelphia and Boston, the airline said Friday. The pilot and copilot gave U.S. investigators different descriptions of the object that passed about 50 yards from the Boeing 747 after it had taken off from Philadelphia on Aug. 9, said the airline. The pilot told the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board that the object as long and wingless, but the copilot said it was more spherical, Swissair spokesman Erwin Schaerer said. The incident took place at 23,000 feet. The plane's final destination was Zurich. -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ___________ ________ ________ ____ ___ * * /__ ____/ / __ ) ( ____/ / // / * * / / / /__| | \ \ / < * * / / / ____ | ___\ \ / /\ \ * * /___/ /___/ |___| /_______) /___/ \___\ * * * * http://home.fuse.net/task/ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "Investigation without predisposition." T.A.S.K. - Tri-State Advocates for Scientific Knowledge
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 20:02:28 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:28:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous >Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 06:37:41 -0700 >From: Loy Pressley <lpressle@webwide.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous >> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:05:09 +0100 >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > snip >Einstein said that the speed of light is the speed limit of this universe. So, >if (and that's a big IF) one were to exceed the speed of light, you could no >longer be in this universe. To bring this back to UFOs and assuming that UFOs >are extraterrestrial and that the speed of their transportation system must >exceed the speed of light in order to make visiting this world practical, where >are they when they are moving faster than the speed of light? Is 'where' even a >relevant term in this case? >Loy The speed of light may be the highest measured speed in the universe. But speed is distance divided by time. If distance can be manipulated, speed becomes irrelevant. In fact, this is the principle of the Alcubierre warp drive. Named after Miguel Alcubierre of the University of Cardiff, Wales. This text is an introduction to a paper by Alcubierre written in 1994. It is shown how, within the framework of general relativity, and without the introduction of wormholes, it is possible to modify a spacetime in a way that allows a spaceship to travel with an arbitrarily large speed. By a purely local expansion of spacetime behind the spaceship and an opposite contraction in front of it, motion faster than the speed of light as seen by observers outside the disturbed region is possible. The resulting distortion is reminiscent of the 'warp drive' of science fiction. However, just as happens with wormholes, exotic matter will be needed to generate a distortion of spacetime like the one discussed here. __________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Technology Pages http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp \______________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality From: fergus@ukraine.corp.mot.com [George Fergus] Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 15:24:26 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:30:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality > Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 08:23:31 +0200 > From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality Jakes E. Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> writes: > It only took months for AT&T to go from germanium diodes > to full production of silicon chips, but it took other companies > another TWELVE YEARS to produce the integrated circuit! > Give me a BREAK! Hi Jakes, I can not figure out how you came up with a period of time consisting of a few months. Using your method (counting 12 years from the first transistor in 1947 to the first integrated circuit in 1959), the time from the very first semiconductor diode in 1934 to the first transistor in 1947 is a total of 13 years. "Full production" of germanium transistors was not achieved until 1951, over 3 years after the discovery of the transistor. And at this time all transistors were still made out of germanium. There were NO transistors made out of other materials such as silicon until 1953, and silicon transistors were not in full production until a couple of years after that. I realize that it is difficult for people who have only a vague idea of what a semiconductor is, to understand a technical explanation of how transistor action was discovered merely by studying a "high-back- voltage germanium diode". The important thing to realize is that the discovery came about as a result of research on SEMICONDUCTORS. High-frequency crystal rectifier diodes were merely the principal application of semi- conductors at that time. High-back-voltage germanium diodes merely had the highest semiconductor purity of any diodes manufactured up to that time. -George Fergus References: "Present Status of Transistor Development" by Jack A. Morton, BELL SYSTEM TECHNICAL JOURNAL 40 (May 1952) 411-442. SEMI-CONDUCTORS AND METALS by A.H. Wilson (Cambridge Univ Press, 1939). CRYSTAL RECTIFIERS by H.C. Torrey & C.A. Whitmer (McGraw-Hill, 1948)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:38:52 -0300 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:33:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 06:37:41 -0700 > From: Loy Pressley <lpressle@webwide.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > > Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:05:09 +0100 > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > > >Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > > >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:55:58 -0700 > > I'd like to interject here if I could. > > I am one of the people that believes that the speed of light is not > > constant. My reasoning for this is simple. > N > supposition is as good as anyone else's until that time. > Einstein said that the speed of light is the speed limit of this universe. So , > if (and that's a big IF) one were to exceed the speed of light, you could no > longer be in this universe. To bring this back to UFOs and assuming that UFO s > are extraterrestrial and that the speed of their transportation system must > exceed the speed of light in order to make visiting this world practical, wher e > are they when they are moving faster than the speed of light? Is 'where' even a > relevant term in this case? > Loy Sorry but there is no need to exceed the speed of light to come to our solar system from another one. One of the key aspects of Einstein's work is that as one gets closer to the speed of light, time slows down for the things moving that fast. The amount of slowing down is dependent on how close to the speed of light one gets. At 99.9%c it only takes 20 months pilot time to go the 37 light years to Zeta l or Zeta 2 Reticuli. At 99.99% of c it only takes 6 months pilot time. One goes out, comes back, marries one's grandaughter's best friend etc. The slowing down has been experimentally verified. We physicists have made particles that go much faster i.e. 99,9999% of c. One would probably would use cosmic freeloading to save energy along with clever engineering. Stan Friedman Search for other documents from or mentioning: fsphys | lpressle |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 26 Airline says UFO nearly hit jet From: Bruce Lanier Wright <magnus@io.com> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 15:47:07 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:34:38 -0400 Subject: Airline says UFO nearly hit jet Airline says UFO nearly hit jet Copyright 1997 Nando.net Copyright 1997 The Associated Press ZURICH, Switzerland (September 26, 1997 12:51 p.m. EDT http://www.nando.net) -- An unidentified, wingless object traveling at high speed passed dangerously close to a Swissair jetliner between Philadelphia and Boston, the airline said Friday. The pilot and co-pilot gave U.S. investigators different descriptions of the object that passed about 50 yards from the Boeing 747 after it had taken off from Philadelphia on Aug. 9, said the airline. The pilot told the National Transportation Safety Board that the object was long and wingless, but the co-pilot said it was more spherical in nature, Swissair spokesman Erwin Schaerer said. The incident took place at 23,000 feet. The plane's final destination was Zurich.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 26 UFO Near Miss From: Tim Joiner <tjoiner@flash.net> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 15:53:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:36:14 -0400 Subject: UFO Near Miss Weather balloon spooks 747 near Philadelphia 4.05 p.m. EDT (2005 GMT) September 26, 1997 ZURICH, Switzerland (AP) =97 The mystery of one UFO has been solved. An unidentified flying object passed dangerously close to a Swissair jetliner traveling between Philadelphia and Boston on Aug. 9, the airline said Friday. Swissair spokesman Erwin Schaerer said the crew reported that an object sped by about 50 yards from the Boeing 747 after the plane had taken off from Philadelphia and had reached 23,000 feet. The pilot told the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board that the object as long and wingless, but the copilot said it was more spherical, he said. And what was it? It probably was a weather balloon, NTSB spokesman Pat Cariseo said Friday. "(The sighting) does not lead us to believe that was something self-propelled,'' Cariseo added.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: UFO Near Miss From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 22:23:21 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:15:02 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Near Miss Hi Tim, Errol and List, > Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 15:53:18 -0500 > From: Tim Joiner <tjoiner@flash.net> > To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: UFO Near Miss > Weather balloon spooks 747 near Philadelphia > 4.05 p.m. EDT (2005 GMT) September 26, 1997 > ZURICH, Switzerland (AP) =8B The mystery of one UFO has been solved. > An unidentified flying object passed dangerously close to a > Swissair jetliner traveling between Philadelphia and Boston on Aug. > 9, the airline said Friday. > Snipped for brevity............ > And what was it? > It probably was a weather balloon, NTSB spokesman Pat Cariseo > said Friday. Well now we've got the NTSB getting into the act. If I was the pilot of that plane I'd be jumping down the throat of Pat Cariseo. Now you've got some bloody mechanic [I'll stay with that assumtion until it's been clarified] telling pilots what they are seeing. I've seen five or six of these things in the last 7 or 8 years, and you know what, they all looked like a damn weather balloon. > "(The sighting) does not lead us to believe that was something > self-propelled,'' Cariseo added. I don't know what these pilots saw but climbing out at 450 knots I can assure you that it was not a weather balloon. They are too small and going by you too fast for that crew to notice. Even in my little Cessna 172, closing on a weather balloon is a speedy process. You spot them at what you think is at a considerable distance then the next thing you know you are zipping by the little sucker and it's gone. If it goes by that fast for me [at about 120 mph] you can imagine how fast this tiny dot is going to expand and zip by a 747. The chances of them even seeing something that small are next to nil,and for one to point it out to the other? There's no time. I'm also pretty sure that Cariseo knows that as well. So come on Cariseo...put up your dukes. Highly insulted for the 747 crew. [I wish I knew their names] Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 26 Agence France-Presse: Swissair Plane In UFO From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 01:26:10 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:07:41 -0400 Subject: Agence France-Presse: Swissair Plane In UFO Swissair plane in UFO near-miss off New York Agence France-Presse Fri, Sep 26 1997 GENEVA, Sept 26 (AFP) - US authorities have launched an inquiry into an unidentified flying object that whizzed 50 metres (yards) past a Swissair jet near New York last month, Swissair said Friday. Company spokesman Jean-Claude Donzel dismissed reports that the object could have been a missile, saying the incident was "very serious" but the results of the inquiry were not yet known. Swiss RSR radio, reporting that the pilot thought it "could have been a missile," noted that the incident occurred near where a TWA flight blew up in July 1996 with the loss of 230 lives. One of the many theories circulated over that crash was that a missile had hit the plane, although US authorities have firmly denied it. According to RSR radio, the National Transportation Safey Board (NTSB) believes the object in the latest incident was a weather balloon. The Boeing 747, with 34 passengers and 17 crew on board, was about 10 miles (16 kilometres) from New York en route from Philadelphia to Zurich via Boston when the near-miss occurred on August 9. Donzel said the pilot and co-pilot both saw an object fly past at high speed. They were later interviewed by the Federal Aviation Administration, the NTSB and the FBI. The pilot said it was "elongated, white and without wings," while the co-pilot described it as "rather round." "Neither the pilot nor co-pilot spoke of a missile" in their statements, another Swissair spokesman, Erwin Schaerer, said. Donzel dismissed the missile theory as "speculation," saying the speed of the object would account for the slight variation in the descriptions provided by the pilot and co-pilot. jlb/km/ns (Copyright 1997) _____via IntellX_____ Copyright 1997, Agence France-Presse. All rights reserved. Republication and redistribution of Agence France-Presse content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Agence France-Presse. Agence France-Presse shall not be liable for errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon. =BF ***** The speed of the object excludes the theory that it was a weather balloon, cf. the pilot's statement to Swiss RSR Radio, that it "could have been a missile". If that is the case, which is rather unlikely, the US military authorities have a serious problem. If not, it is too early to draw any conclusions, but the decriptions that the pilots gave - "elongated, white and without wings" (pilot) or "rather round" (co-pilot) - seem to exclude that it was an airplane. Stig
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 26 ACC From: fergus@ukraine.corp.mot.com Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:55:10 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:09:33 -0400 Subject: ACC I've just spent a few moments trying to figure out why they keep making these weird pronouncemnts about the alien origins of the transistor. This is stuff that anyone with access to a good technical library can easily disprove by looking up the original articles. So here are allegations by some un-named "whistleblower" some 50 years after the fact. But they pop up just a month after similar allegations in a book by Col. Philip Corso. Yet it is claimed they have never heard of Corso or his book. It is just a coincidence that this information is coming out at exactly the same time, after not being mentioned at all for 50 years. Then, more wild-eyed allegations are made. Motorola is just a front for AT&T. UNIX was invented by aliens, too. Are they just nuts, or could this be a deliberate disinformation campaign, with the intention of being exposed or disproved and thus discrediting similar claims such as Corso's? I guess we'll just have to sit around and see what happens. -George Fergus
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: UFO Near Miss From: John Koopmans <john.koopmans@sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 20:19:18 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:22:53 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Near Miss UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > > Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 15:53:18 -0500 > From: Tim Joiner <tjoiner@flash.net> > To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: UFO Near Miss > > Weather balloon spooks 747 near Philadelphia > 4.05 p.m. EDT (2005 GMT) September 26, 1997 > > ZURICH, Switzerland (AP) =97 The mystery of one UFO has been solved. > > An unidentified flying object passed dangerously close to a > Swissair jetliner traveling between Philadelphia and Boston on Aug. > 9, the airline said Friday. [Snip] > And what was it? > > It probably was a weather balloon, NTSB spokesman Pat Cariseo > said Friday. Recently (last Sunday), there were numerous witnesses who saw an object drifting over Ontario, between Barrie and Trenton. At least one video was taken of this object. The witnesses indicate that the object was spherical, although it changed shape and became oval and diamond-shaped. It was reported as having a very reflective surface, and seen through a telescope appeared translucent, but covered with "web-like" material. The witnesses (at least 11 witnesses from the Peterborough, Bowmanville and Oshawa area)all indicate that the object was "very large", perhaps 100 feet in diameter or more. This sighting is currently being investigated by a member of the MUFON Ontario group. On this note, and just for the record, can anyone answer the following: 1) What are the range of sizes of weather balloons (i.e. what is the largest size in general use)? 2) What elevations do they normally rise to? If they are free-floating, how are they retreived? 3) If these balloons are released, especially in the flight paths of commercial jets, are the owners required to obtain clearances? If so, who do they obtain clearances from? 4) Do weather balloons appear on radar? Thank you. J. Koopmans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 01:05:20 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:06:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality >From: fergus@ukraine.corp.mot.com [George Fergus] >Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 15:24:26 -0500 (CDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality >> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 08:23:31 +0200 >> From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality Hi all, I am trying to get the history of the transistor right. What follows is a compilation of what I found on this list, supplemented by info I found elsewhere. If anything of this is incomplete or incorrect, please notify me. The results will be available at http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp/comphis.htm A brief history of the transistor, the integrated circuit and the microchip Dec. 16, 1947 - Shockley, Bardeen and others announce the first recognition of the transistor effect with a germanium transistor. Dec. 23, 1947 - The inventors present their findings to top management. July 1, 1948 - The New York Times announces the discovery of the transistor in its "News of Radio" section. 1951 - William Shockley, Stanly Morgan, Morgan Sparks and Gordon Teal develop the p-n junction transistor. Western Electric starts commercial production of transistors. 1953 - First silicon transistor 1957 - Gordon Moore and Robert Noyce leave Shockley Semiconductor Laboratory when Shockley refuses to allow them to do research into silicon transistors. They found Fairchild Semiconductors. 1959 - Jean Hoerni while working at Fairchild Semiconductors makes a flat (planar) transistor with junctions insulated with silicon. Robert Noyce, using this technique, produces an integrated circuit. Transistorized computers go into production by many companies. 1968 - The Burroughs company introduces the first computer using integrated circuits. - Gordon Moore and Robert Noyce leave Fairchild Semiconductors and form Intel Corp. to produce integrated circuits. __________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Technology Pages http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp \______________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:58:21 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:01:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions About Elizabeth Loftus: > From: viggo.andersen@post3.tele.dk (Andersen, Viggo) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Scientific American 'Explains' > Abductions > Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 05:11:10 +0100 > This is what Loftus has to say in the SciAm article: > "Of course, simply because we can implant false childhood memories > in some individuals in no way implies that all memories that arise > after suggestion are necessarily false. Put another way, although > experimental work on false memory creation may raise doubt about the > validity of long-buried memories, such as repeated trauma, it in no > way disproves them. Without corroboration, there is little that can > be done even the most experienced evaluator to differentiate true > memories from ones that are suggestively planted." > <snip> I'm then quoted: > >Other psychologists would disagree. Of course the prosecution, too, > >had an expert witness, Lenore Terr, a psychologist whose two books > >on traumatic memory I strongly recommend for anyone seeking a balanced > >view of this complex and controversial subject. (Even though the > >defense eventually won this court case, on appeal.) And I don't see > >how Loftus can deny that these sudden flashbacks -- which > >psychologists sometimes call "flashbulb" memories -- really do > >occur. > >Hasn't she ever mislaid her car keys, then suddenly remembered > >where she'd put them? And Viggo notes: > That's normal forgetting and remembering, not repressed > and recovered memory. I hardly think that Loftus has ever > denied that there is such a thing as normal forgetting and > remembering. Nope. But her Scientific American article struck me as a good deal more moderate than her book. She never rejected normal forgetting and remembering, but she more or less slid around it. She argued against the idea of true traumatic memories suddenly coming to light. She said, in effect, that there's no theoretical basis for believing that there COULD be any such thing as buried traumatic memories. And she did so with such vigor that it's reasonable to object: "But Dr. L, isn't what you're talking about in the end just an ordinary, everyday phenomenon?" Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 27 *** REAL CANADIAN X-FILES RG24-17984 S940-5 Part 2 From: UFO Joe Daniels <ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 01:03:06 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:14:52 -0400 Subject: *** REAL CANADIAN X-FILES RG24-17984 S940-5 Part 2 I have thousands of Canadian Government Documents from National Archives and Department of National Defence (Canada) regarding UFOs and am creating an index of their contents. This is a complete listing of the *SECOND* "batch" of documents contained in the first group [AFHQ-940-5 Intelligence -- Sightings of Unknown Objects, UNCLAS, vol 1,2 11 Jul 47 to 28 Jul 64]. If you are interested in getting a copy of individual documents or the entire batch e-mail me at ufojoe@cron-2.mco.net If you are missing the index for the first "batch" [AFHQ-940-5, Part 1, UNCLAS] let me know and I'll e-mail it out to you. If you are interested in getting the next index for the "batch" from "AFHQ940-105 Intelligence -- Sightings of Unknown Objects, [CONFIDENTIAL], vol 1,2 7 Jul 47 to 6 Jul 64." Email me and I'll put you on a distribution list. * A Special Thanks to Edward Greenop in BC for typing in and sending me back the computer text version of the files he recieved. Someday it would be nice just to have all these documents in text format online. INDEX OF CANADIAN UFO X-FILES From 1964 to 1962 Department of National Defence (DND) Intelligence, Sightings of Unknown Objects Record Group 24, Volume #17984, S-940-5, Part 2, T3291 NUMB DATE: DESCRIPTION: Last Updated September 14, 1997, Joe Daniels ----------------------------------------------------------------------- B000 (NoDate) Title Page UFO CRASH, EAGLE CREEK, BRITISH COLUMBIA, 07/06/64: B001 07/28/64 Inspector Forward Assistant Criminal Investigation Branch Officer, "E" Division Criminal Investigation Branch To: Officer in Charge, CANAIRHED, OPS, RCAF, Cartier Square, Ottawa, Ontario Re: Downed Aircraft near 100 Mile House, British Columbia, July 6, 1964 B002 07/06/64 Harris, Superintendent, Officer in Command, Kamloops S/D To: Royal Canadian Air Force, 100 Mile House, British Columbia Re: Sighting report of UFO Crash near Eagle Creek B003 07/06/64 (Page Two of the Above Report) B004 07/06/64 (Page Three of the Above Report) B005 07/06/64 Report from Tatton of Eagle Creek UFO in BC 07/06/64 B006 07/06/64 Report from 100 Mile House of Eagle Creek UFO in BC 07/06/64 UFO, YUKON TERRITORIES, 10/07/64: B007 10/13/64 Inspector in Charge, Lysyk of Criminal Investigation Branch, "G" Division Criminal Investigation Branch To: CANAIRHED OPS, Royal Canadian Air Force, "A" Building, Cartier Square, Ottawa, Ontario Re: Letter from Slawson regarding fireball sighting B008 10/13/64 Inspector in Charge, Lysyk, Canadian Intelligence Bureau, "G" Division Criminal Investigation Branch To: Dr. Slawson, Institute of Earth Sciences, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, BC Re: Report of Fireball/UFO by USAF in Yukon Territory 10/07/64 UFO, BAKERS LAKE, CENTRAL ARCTIC, NWT, 10/30/62: B009 11/09/62 Officer in Charge, Criminal Investigation Branch, Royal Canadian Mounted Police To: CANAIRHED OPS, Royal Canadian Air Force, "A" Building, Cartier Square, Ottawa, Ontario Re: Baker Lake Sighting, North West Territories, 10/30/62 B010 10/30/62 Inspector McKim, Central Arctic Sub-Division To: Officer Commanding, "G" Division, Royal Canadian Mounted Police, Ottawa, Ontario Re: Baker Lake, NWT, sighting report B011 10/30/62 (Page Two of the Above) UFO CRASH, ALEXIS CREEK, BRITISH COLUMBIA, 11/02/62: B012 11/09/62 Assistant Commander, Parsons, Director, Operations & Criminal Investigations To: Chief Air Staff, Department National Defence, Royal Canadian Air Force, Headquarters, Ottawa, Ontario Re: Silver UFO Crash, Alexis Creek, British Columbia B013 11/09/62 (Page Two of the Above) B014 11/06/62 Assistant Commander, Parsons, Director, Operations & Criminal Investigations To: Chief Air Staff, Department National Defence, Royal Canadian Air Force, Headquarters, Ottawa, Ontario Re: UFO Crash, Alexis Creek, British Columbia UFO, INUVIK, NORTH WEST TERRITORIES, 11/28/63: B015 12/11/63 Inspector Lysyk, Criminal Investigation Branch To: Royal Canadian Air Force, "A" Building, Cartier Square, Ottawa, Ontario Re: UFO report Inuvik Detachment, 11/28/63 B016 11/26/63 Constable Halliday, Inuvik Detachment, RCMP Re: Inuvik Airport (NWT) UFO sighting report of 11/26/63 UFO SIGHTING, BURSTALL, SASKATCHEWAN, 03/31/64: UFO SIGHTING, QUEBEC CITY, QUEBEC, 03/31/64: B017 04/02/64 Superintendent Martin, Officer in Charge, Criminal Investigation Branch, Royal Canadian Mounted Police To: Chief Air Staff, Department National Defence, Royal Canadian Air Force, Ottawa, Ontario Re: UFO Sighting, Burstall, Saskatchewan and also UFO Sighting, Quebec City, Quebec on 03/31/64 B018 04/02/64 (Page Two of the Above) B020 02/04/64 Officer in Charge Martin, Criminal Investigation Branch To: Chief of Air Staff, Department National Defence, Royal Canadian Air Force Headquarters, Ottawa, Canada Re: UFO sighting Burstall, Saskatchewan & UFO sighting Quebec City, Quebec B021 02/04/64 (Page Two of the Above) B022 02/04/64 Officer in Charge Martin, Criminal Investigation Branch To: CANAIRHED OPS, Royal Canadian Air Force, "A" Building Cartier Square, Ottawa, Ontario Re: UFO sighting Burstall, Saskatchewan & UFO sighting Quebec City, Quebec B023 02/04/64 (Page Two of the Above) B019 02/25/64 Squadron Leader, Connolly, Deputy Director, Public Relations, Royal Canadian Air Force To: Mr. Hennessey, South Kensington, London, England Re: RCAF policy for investigating UFO reports UFO, KAMLOOPS, BRITISH COLUMBIA, 12/02/62: B024 12/05/62 Officer in Charge Goldsmith, Criminal Investigation Branch To: Chief Air Staff, Department National Defence, Royal Canadian Air Force Headquarters, Ottawa, Ontario Re: Prison Guard UFO sighting Kamloops, BC 12/02/62 UFO, PRINCETON, BRITISH COLUMBIA, 01/01/63: B025 01/28/63 Officer in Charge Goldsmith, Criminal Investigation Branch To: Chief Air Staff, Department National Defence, Royal Canadian Air Force Headquarters, Ottawa, Ontario Re: UFO sighting Princeton, British Columbia, 01/01/63 B026 01/03/63 Chilliwack Royal Canadian Mounted Police Report taken by Brown Re: UFO sighting Princeton, British Columbia, 01/01/63 B027 01/03/63 (Page Two of the Above) B028 01/31/63 Department National Defence Memo, A Leslie (handwritten) Re: Princeton UFO report forwarded to Meteor Centre B029 01/28/63 Officer in Charge, Goldsmith, Criminal Investigation Branch To: Chief Air Staff, Department National Defence, Royal Canadian Air Force Headquarters, Ottawa, Ontario Re: Princeton UFO 01/01/63 B030 01/03/63 Chilliwack Royal Canadian Mounted Police Report taken by Brown Re: UFO sighting Princeton, British Columbia, 01/01/63 B031 01/03/63 (Page Two of the Above) UFO, INUVIK, NORTHWEST TERRITORIES, 11/12/63: B032 12/02/63 Inspector Lysyk, Criminal Investigation Branch, Division "G" To: CANAIRHED OPS, Royal Canadian Air Force, "A" Building, Cartier Square, Ottawa, Ontario Re: UFO sighting, Inuvik, NWT, 11/12/63 B033 11/19/63 Constable Maxwell, 20987, Inuvik Detachment, RCMP RCMP Sighting Reported from Aklavik, Arctic Red River, Fort McPherson, Inuvik, and Fort Good Hope, NWT. UFO, ALEXIS CREEK, CHILCOTIN, BRITISH COLUMBIA, 11/02/62: B034 (NoDate) Dilworth, Department of Air Intelligence To: CANAIRPAC Re: TELEX, UFO Tatla Lake 11/08/63 & 11/15/63 Request for aerial Photograph B035 12/05/62 Superintendent Goldsmith, Officer in Charge, Criminal Investigation Branch, RCMP To: Chief Air Staff, Department National Defence, Royal Canadian Air Force Headquarters, Ottawa, Ontario Re: UFO Chilcotin District, British Columbia B036 11/28/62 Inspector Price, Assistant, Criminal Investigation Branch Officer, "E" Division, Royal Canadian Mounted Police To: The Commissioner, RCMP Re: UFO report Alexis Creek B037 11/02/62 Superintendent Harris, Officer Commanding, Kamloops RE: UFO report Alexis Creek (Chilcotin), British Columbia B038 11/02/62 (Page Two of the Above) B039 11/02/62 (Page Three of the Above) B040 11/10/62 Constable Humphreys, Royal Canadian Mounted Police Re: UFO report Tatla Lake, British Columbia, 11/02/62 B041 11/09/62 Constable Humphreys, Royal Canadian Mounted Police Re: Silver Ball UFO, Skinner Mountain, BC 11/02/62 B042 11/15/62 Constable Humphreys, Royal Canadian Mounted Police Re: Polished UFO, Alexis Creek, BC 11/02/62 B043 11/15/62 Constable Humphreys, Royal Canadian Mounted Police Re: Cylindrical UFO, Sawmill Creek, BC, 11/02/62 B044 11/20/62 Wing Commander Biden, Royal Canadian Air Force, Kamloops Re: UFO Crash, Alexis Creek, BC, 11/02/62 B045 11/21/62 Superintendent Harris, Officer Commanding, Kamloops To: RCMP Crime Lab, Regina Saskatchewan Re: UFO fragment from Chilcotin, BC, 11/21/62 B046 (NoDate) RCMP Narrative Report of UFO Alexis Creek 11/02/62 B047 (NoDate) (Page Two of the Above) B048 11/03/62 TELEX UFO Alexis Creek, BC, 11/02/62 B049 11/03/62 (Page Two of the Above) B050 (NoDate) Two Photos of UFO Fragment, Alexis Creek (A,B) B051 (NoDate) Two Photos of UFO Fragment, Alexis Creek (C,D) B052 (NoDate) Two Photos of UFO Fragment, Alexis Creek (E,F) B053 (NoDate) Secretary Harris, ScD/CTS To: RMD Dep 3, Miss Schultz Re: "Returned thank you." UFO, HUNTSVILLE, ONTARIO, AUGUST 1965: B054 11/16/65 Flight Lieutenant Skuce, for Air Office Commanding, Air Transport Command, Royal Canadian Air Force To: Chief Defence Staff, Canadian Forces Headquarters, Department National Defence, Ottawa 4, Ontario Re: UFO Report Toronto 11/09/65 B055 11/09/65 Scuba Diver in Toronto To: Royal Canadian Air Force, Air Officer Commanding, Air Transport Command, Trenton, Ontario Re: Report of a UFO splashing into Hex Lake in August 1965 Offer to do underwater search and recovery UFOS, HALIFAX COUNTY, NOVA SCOTIA, 04/05/65: B056 04/13/65 Captain Knox for Chief of Defence Staff To: Halifax County, Nova Scotia Re: UFOs Halifax County, Nova Scotia, 04/05/65 B057 04/05/65 Musquodoboit Harbour, Halifax County, Nova Scotia To: Department of National Defence, Ottawa, Ontario Re: UFO sightings on 04/05/65 B058 04/05/65 (Drawing of the Above UFO Flight path) UFO, POUCE COUPE, BRITISH COLUMBIA, 02/21/65: B059 02/22/65 TELEX: UFO, Pouce Coupe, British Columbia, 02/21/65 AIR FORCE ROUTINE ORDER AFR-313: B060 11/20/64 National Research Council To: Chief Air Staff, Air Force Headquarters, National Defence Headquarters, Ottawa, Canada Re: Air Force Routine Order #313 (12/29/61) list of regional representatives for forwarding UFO reports. B061 11/20/64 (Page Two of the Above) UFO, BELL'S CORNERS, ONTARIO, 10/29/64: B062 11/02/64 Department National Defence Temporary Docket 940-5 TD# 4307 OP B063 10/29/64 Bell's Corners, Ontario To: Director General of Operations, Canadian Forces Headquarters, Department National Defence, Ottawa, Ontario Re: Orange, Crescent UFO, Bell's Corners, Ontario B064 10/29/64 (Sketch of Above UFO flight path) B065 (NoDate) Partial List of UFO forwarding agencies (See B060) INFORMATION REQUEST FROM HENDERSON, ILLINOIS: B066 08/21/64 Group Captain Dilworth, for Chief Defence Staff To: Henderson, Fulton, Illinois, USA Re: Canadian Policy on UFOs, JANAP 146D B067 08/13/64 Henderson, Fulton, Illinois, USA To: Chief Defence Staff, Air Force Headquarters, Department National Defence, Ottawa 4, Ontario Re: Goose Bay Incident. Canadian UFO Policy B068 08/10/64 Group Captain Dilworth, for Chief Defence Staff To: Henderson, Illinois, USA Re: Search for information on Goose Bay UFO B069 07/28/64 Department National Defence Minute Sheet Re: UFO report sent to Department Air Intelligence and Royal Canadian Air Force for Search & Rescue B070 07/29/64 Group Captain Dilworth for Chief Air Staff To: Henderson, Fulton, Illinois, USA Re: Receipt of Letter for Search B071 07/29/64 Group Captain Dilworth for Chief Air Staff To: Air Officer Commanding, Air Defence Command, Royal Canadian Air Force Station St. Hubert, Quebec Re: Request for information on UFO reported in 1948 B072 07/25/64 Henderson, Fulton, Illinois, USA To: Department National Defence, Royal Canadian Air Force Ottawa, Ontario Re: Requesting information on UFO reported in Goose Bay, Labrador in 1948 B073 07/26/64 (Envelope for the Above) UFO, HALIFAX, NOVA SCOTIA, 04/01/64: B074 04/07/64 Department National Defence Temporary Docket 940-5 TD #4098 B075 04/01/64 UFO reported Halifax, Nova Scotia LETTER FROM HENNESSY, LONDON, ENGLAND: B076 02/07/64 Wing Commander Howey, Department National Defence Minute Sheet Re: Letter from Hennessey, London, England Project Blue Book B077 01/23/64 Flight Lieutenant Gammie PRO - Canadian Joint Staff (L) Department National Defence To: Chief Air Staff, Air Force Headquarters, Department National Defence, Ottawa 4, Ontario Re: Letter from Hennessey, London, England B078 01/14/64 Hennessey, South Kensington, England To: Canadian Air Member, London Re: Request information on Project Blue Book and Canadian Equivalent B079 01/23/64 Flight Lieutenant, Public Relations Officer, Canadian Joint Staff, London To: Hennessey, London, England Re: Letter Forwarded to Air Force Headquarters RCAF ROUTINE ORDERS (AFRO), REPORTING UFOS B080 12/06/63 Royal Canadian Air Force, Routine Orders (AFRO) #302-309 B081 12/06/63 (Page Two of the Above) B082 12/06/63 (Page Three of the Above) B083 12/06/63 (Page Four of the Above) B084 12/14/62 Royal Canadian Air Force, Routine Orders (AFRO) #297-302 B085 12/14/62 (Page Two of the Above) B086 10/28/63 Chief Air Staff Arnell, Memo Re: Reporting UFOs, Fireballs & Meteorites B087 10/28/63 Air Force Routine Orders (AFRO) #298 Changes B088 10/28/63 (Page Two of the Above) B089 11/01/63 Flight Lieutenant Alleman (DPA) Memo Re: Air Force Routine Order (AFRO) 298 B090 12/14/62 Royal Canadian Air Force Routine Orders (AFRO) #297-302 B091 12/14/62 (Page Two of the Above) B092 12/14/62 (Page Three of the Above) B093 12/14/62 (Page Four of the Above) B094 (NoDate) (Blank Page) PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY BY MR. WINCH: B095 10/23/63 Air Marshal Dunlap, Chief Air Staff Memo Re: Response to Questions by Mr. Winch NORAD, Project Magnet, Wilbert B. Smith B096 10/21/63 Flight Lieutenant Nichols, Chief Air Staff (SO3) Re: Parliamentary Returns B097 10/21/63 McPhee, Parliamentary Returns, Room 2516 "A" Building Memo To: Chief Air Staff Section Re: Inquiry Questions #1416 by Mr. Winch B098 10/18/63 (Page Two of the Above) UFO INQUIRIES BY NICAP OFFICER IN VANCOUVER: B099 06/19/63 Air Vice Marshal Annie, Acting Chief Air Staff Memo To: Minister's Staff Officer Re: Information on UFOs requested 06/08/63 B100 06/19/63 (Page Two of the Above) B101 06/09/63 Austin A/C, Department National Defence Minute Sheet Re: Minister's Staff seeks answers to questions on UFOs B102 06/14/63 Lieutenant-Commander Favreau, Minister's Staff Office Memo Re: Questions on UFOs B103 (NoDate) NICAP member, Vancouver, B.C. To: Hallyer, Minister of National Defence, Ottawa, Ontario Re: UFO & Flying Saucer policies in Canada UFO INQUIRIES BY NICAP OFFICER IN NOVA SCOTIA: B104 04/22/63 Group Commander Garyon, for Chief Air Staff To: Minister's Staff Officer Re: Request for information on UFOs from NICAP officer in Nova Scotia. Hope that lengthy but non-specific reply will discourage further inquiries by NICAP B105 (NoDate) Minister of National Defence, Hallyer To: NICAP member, Thorburn, Nova Scotia Re: Reply to questions B106 (NoDate) (Page Two of the Above) B107 05/17/63 Lieutenant Commander Favreau, Minister's Staff Officer Memo Re: Advice on reply to Nova Scotia questions B108 04/22/63 Thorburn, Nova Scotia (Handwritten) To: Minister of National Defence, Parliament Building, Ottawa Re: Seven questions about UFOs B109 05/01/63 TELEX: UFO Tatla Lake, British Columbia Re: Need to further interview two witnesses CHRIS WEST'S REQUEST FOR UFO INFORMATION: B110 12/07/62 Air Force Temporary Docket, S940-105 TD #2341 B111 02/07/63 Wing Commander Howey for Chief Air Staff To: Chris West, Scarborough, Ontario Re: Request for information on UFOs B112 02/07/63 (Page Two of the Above) B113 01/31/63 Chris West, Scarborough, Ontario To: Chief Air Staff Re: Reason for withholding UFO information B115 01/29/63 Air Force Temporary Docket, S940-105 TD #2329(?) B116 01/23/63 Group Captain Dilworth for Chief Air Staff To: Chris West, Scarborough, Ontario Re: Request for information on UFOs B117 01/15/63 Chris West, Scarborough, Ontario To: Department of National Defence, Ottawa, Ontario Re: Information on disappearance of F-89 over Lake Superior and British Airliner over Goose Bay. B114 01/31/63 Wing Commander Howey for Chief Air Staff To: Air Officer Commanding, Air Defence Command, Royal Canadian Air Force Station St. Hubert, Quebec Re: Included RCMP UFO report (Editors Note: The report seems to be missing!) B118 01/23/63 Group Captain Dilworth for Chief Air Staff To: Thomas Mulligan, St. Catherines, Ontario Re: Inquiry about UFO at Canada Air show UFO, CLEARWATER, BRITISH COLUMBIA, 12/02/62: B119 12/07/62 Air Force Temporary Docket S940-105 TD #2311(B) B120 12/15/62 Squadron Leader MacGarva for Chief Air Staff To: Dr. Millman, Meteor Centre, National Research Council, Ottawa, Ontario Re: Attached report passed to Air Force Headquarters by Royal Canadian Mounted Police B121 12/05/62 Officer in Charge Goldsmith, Criminal Investigation Branch, Royal Canadian Mounted Police To: Chief Air Staff, Department National Defence, Royal Canadian Air Force Headquarters, Ottawa Re: UFO sighted by prison guard, Clearwater, British Columbia B122 12/05/62 (Envelope for the Above) UFO, TATLA LAKE, ALEXIS CREEK, BRITISH COLUMBIA: B123 12/07/62 Air Force Temporary Docket S940-105 TD #3211(A) B124 11/26/62 Leslie for Chief Air Staff, Department National Defence Re: Memo "Letter is on file" B125 11/20/62 TELEX from Kamloops, British Columbia Re: UFO fragment appears to be "nose cone fairing". B126 11/19/62 Group Captain Dilworth To: CANAIRPAC, Vancouver, British Columbia Re: Further attempts to reach UFO crash site unwarranted. Operation may be resumed in Spring. B127 11/14/62 TELEX, CANAIRPAC To: CANAIRHED Re: Aerial Search for UFO impact site B128 11/15/63 Group Captain Dilworth for Chief Air Staff To: Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police, Ottawa Re: Air Force interested in Alexis Creek UFO. Search postponed until spring. B129 11/13/62 Air Force Temporary Docket s940-105 TD #2320 B130 11/15/62 Slawson, Assistant Professor, University of British Columbia To: Dr. Robinson, Chief, Petrological Division, Geological Survey of Canada, Ottawa Re: Preliminary Report on Tatla Lake UFO Crash B131 11/15/62 (Page Two of the Above) B132 11/15/62 (Page Three of the Above) B133 11/16/62 Wing Commander Biden, Kamloops, British Columbia To: Air Officer Commanding, Air Defence Command Re: Search for Alexis Creek UFO Crash B134 11/16/62 Re: Narrative of Search for Alexis Creek UFO Crash B135 11/16/62 (Page two of the Above) B136 11/04/62 TELEX regarding Alexis Creek UFO Crash B137 11/04/62 (Page Two of the Above) B138 11/09/62 Air Force Temporary Docket S940-105 B139 11/16/62 Leslie for Chief Air Staff To: C.R. Re: Letter already on file. Letter removed for use by CAS. B140 11/09/62 TELEX from CANAIRPAC To: Vancouver, British Columbia Re: UFO Tatla Lake, British Columbia B141 11/08/62 TELEX, Group Captain Dilworth (CANAIRPAC) To: CANAIRPAC, Station Kamloops Re: Tatla Lake UFO crash search B142 11/08/62 TELEX, Ground Search for Tatla Lake UFO B143 11/06/62 TELEX, Kamloops, British Columbia To: CANAIRDEF Re: interrogation of Tatla Lake witnesses B144 05/17/83 "Public Archives of Canada" RG24 Vol. 17984, File No. 940-5 Vol. 2 (END-OF-FILE) .-----------------------------------------------------------------------. | From UFO Joe Daniels ufojoe@cron-2.mco.net -or- http://cron-2.mco.net | | 37122-769 Southdale Road, East, London, Ontario, Canada, N6E-3B0 | | Computer/Internet Consultant CUFORN: http://cron-2.mco.net/web/cuforn | | Marketing Consultant MUFON: http://www.globalserve.net/~updates/mufon | `-----------------------------------------------------------------------'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: Drudge Report: Pilot Says UFO Wasn't Weather From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 04:47:15 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:17:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Drudge Report: Pilot Says UFO Wasn't Weather Found at Ufomind's archive of the IUFO mailing list. URL: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/iufo/1997/sep/u26-057.shtml xIUFO Mailing List - Unofficial ArchiveUfomind Fwd: SwissAir Pilot Says UFO nearly collides with his 747 From: dcox@ix.netcom.com (Danny Cox) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:37:01 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Fwd: SwissAir Pilot Says UFO nearly collides with his 747 ---- Begin Forwarded Message XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT FLASH 9/26/97 FRI SEP 26 1997 11:42:10 PDT PILOT: UFO WASN'T WEATHER BALLOON An unidentified object narrowly missed a SWISSAIR Boeing 747 while the aircraft was at 23,000 feet, passing in air space between Philadelphia and New York, on Aug 9, Swiss radio reported this morning. Major newswires are taking the story and moving it. The pilot described the object, which passed within 50 yards of the aircraft, as "white, elongated and without wings," and strongly rejected U.S. explanations that the object was a weather balloon, the radio report said. The object was moving at very high speeds, Swissair spokesman Erwin Schaerer tells the NTSB. The plane was Zurich-bound, from Philadelphia. AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE is reporting that there may be passenger witnesses to the incident... Archived as a public service by Area 51 Research Center which is not responsible for content. Software by Glenn Campbell. Technical contact: webmaster@ufomind.com Financial support for this web server is provided by the Research Center Catalog. Search for other documents from or mentioning: stig_agermose | dcox |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 23:28:17 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:18:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 9/26/97 5:27 PM: > Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 08:36:27 -0700 (PDT) > From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > This topic seems pretty far out of range of UFO Updates. But where do you > come up with such stuff, Mark? The speed of light does depend upon the > medium it passes through, and its density. Variations of density thus > cause bendings of the light's wave fronts, resulting in refraction and > scintillation, mirages, etc. It's the speed of light in a vacuum that's a > constant. Well, Jim, I assumed that was what we were discussing. The abstract "c". If I was in error, my apologies to anyone who was confused by my statement. ------ Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman - Original digital art, writing, and UFO research - Author of SF novels available at... http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront ------
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 27 Rare Keyhoe Article On Antigravity Research From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 06:44:05 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:19:38 -0400 Subject: Rare Keyhoe Article On Antigravity Research Found on Ufomind's Donald Keyhoe page http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/k/keyhoe/ URL for this item http://www.netcentral.co.uk/~ade/anti-g.htm *** This is an article that appeared in a magazine called `Flying Saucers' that was written in 1967 by Maj. Donald E. Keyhoe. SAUCERS SECRET : ANTIGRAVITY Editor's Note: Major Keyhoe has been writing about Unidentified Flying Objects (UFO's) for over 15 years. [written in 1967.Vangard] From the outset he has insisted that flying saucers are real and interplanetary, and many authorities have come to agree with him. Now he claims that control over gravity itself is the only explanation for the astounding maneuvers which saucers are said to make. Some physicists dismiss this theory as fundamentally erroneous. But, as you will read, there are others who find Major Keyhoe's latest chapter in "The Great Flying Saucer Story" important and plausible. What goes up (and around ) does not necessarily have to come down. Major Keyhoe maintains `Not known fields of force' allow saucers to behave peculiarly: To hover motionlessly, turn on a dime, and accelerate at fantastic speeds. And only a crash `G' program on our part can counteract it. By Maj. Donald E. Keyhoe One night last February, over the North Pacific, a Flying Tiger Airlines crew had a startling aerial encounter. What they saw is a clue to a fantastic technical mystery. In its solution lies a prize so great that six government agencies are searching for it right now. The answer may not be far off. What they are searching for is the secret of gravity control. About midnight on February 15, the Flying Tiger plane, carrying a military group from the U.S. to Japan, was four hours out of Anchorage. Suddenly the cockpit radar picked up three fast- moving objects. The plane captain and his crew looked out at the side and saw three huge oval-shaped ships, glowing red in the night. An Air Force captain who was a passenger on the plane was called forward to confirm the sighting. His signed report is in the files of the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena. According to the captain's report, the unknown machines slowed down to the airliner's speed and flew in close formation. Five miles away, by radar range, they leveled off to pace the plane. The Air Force captain computed their length as much more than 700 feet. It was plain that the giant Unidentified Flying Objects had an unknown type of propulsion. No jets, no exhausts were visible. For 30 minutes, still in formation, they continued to pace the plane. Then, swiftly accelerating to 1,200 knots, they climbed out of sight in seconds. This startlingly swift acceleration is a maneuver that could not be duplicated by any ship now made on Earth. What makes it possible for UFO's? According to many scientists and engineers, there is only one possible answer. The answer is ANTIGRAVITY : artificial gravity fields and control of gravity power. Control of gravity is something that men have been dreaming about for centuries. Now it appears that we are on the threshold of achieving it. Its value, to the country that first attains it, is incalculable. Our government, hoping for a technical breakthrough, has set up 46 different research projects on various aspects of gravity control. The Air Force is running 33 of these projects and the others are divided among five other agencies. Included in the 46 government projects are experiments and research at two Air Force Laboratories (Flight Dynamics and General Physics Research), Radio Corporation of America, Massachusetts Institute of Technology and several technical engineering centers. In addition, official projects are being carried out at Barkley and Dexter Laboratories, Fitchburg, Massachusetts; Israel Institute of Technology; the Universities of California, Denver, Harvard, Indiana, Manchester (England), Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Ohio, Purdue, Stockholm (Sweden), Syracuse, Texas, and two New York schools - Queens College and Yeshiva Graduate School of Science. And, of course, some government agencies have projects so secret that they are not publicly registered and cannot be revealed without permission. Private industry is also looking at the question of gravity control with new seriousness. A large number of giant corporations, including Bell Aerospace, General Electric, Hughes Aircraft, Boeing, Douglas and many others, have set up gravity projects. If you add up all the known gravity programs being run by the government and private industry, you get somewhere between 65 and 70 projects. This means there is a heavy concentration of scientific and engineering brains working on the problem. One leading scientist who is convinced that UFO's are spaceships using gravity control is Dr. Hermann Oberth. Doctor Oberth, a recognized authority, was co-designer of the V-2 rocket and later a U.S. special consultant at Huntsville, Alabama, one of the installations where important antigravity research is now underway. "With ordinary propulsion," Doctor Oberth told me in 1961, "such violent accelerations and maneuvers would endanger the ship. Also, the force would crush any creatures aboard against the rear or sides of the machine. But with an artificial gravity field the force applies simultaneously to the passengers and the spaceship. Even in swift changes of speed and direction, the ship is not strained and the passengers feel nothing." Today, Doctor Oberth is willing to go further. He is now of the opinion "that energy, inertia and gravitational fields are only aspects of one and the same thing" and that it will prove impossible to separate them from each other. What he has in mind, he says, is "not yet known fields of force" which can be used to accelerate material objects in a way similar to the force of gravity. Another noted authority who agrees that UFO's are using artificial G fields is William P. Lear, Sr. multimillionaire inventor, pilot, designer of air and space equipment and builder of jet aircraft. Lear, who once sighted a UFO from his executive plane, predicts that future U.S. vehicles will also use artificial gravity. "The people on board would probably not feel any more effect," Lear says, "than they do from the tremendous speed of the Earth as it rotates and orbits the sun." Several years ago, Glenn Martin's vice-president for advanced design, G.S. Trimble, predicted that by 1985 practically all airliners would be using artificial gravity, flying at almost unbelievable speeds. At about the same time, future airliner speeds of 10,000 mph or more were pictured by Dr. Walter Dornberger, then Bell Aircraft's chief guided-missile scientist and now president of Bell aerospace. Grover Loening, pioneer aircraft builder and consultant to the Air Force, said it even more strongly. "I firmly believe that before long man will acquire the ability to build an electromagnetic contragravity mechanism that works," he stated. A top official of Bethlehem Steel, Jesse V. Honeycutt, has indicated some of the results we can expect if Loening is right. "Serious research is being concentrated on in an attempt to solve the mystery of gravity and bring about a control of its power.... It would bring about a greater revolution in power, transportation and many other fields than the discovery of atomic power," he stated. Antigravity? It seems inconceivable. Yet, the search goes on and many responsible men believe the answer will be found. And, to my mind, it is the only possible explanation for the performance of the UFO'S. The stakes are so high that no clue can be overlooked. The Air Force Technical Intelligence, hunting for overlooked leads, is carefully checking hundreds of verified UFO reports. Hopefully, some of them will help us find out how these strange vehicles operate. Four days before Christmas, 1964, a round, metallic craft about 125 feet in diameter was observed to make a brief landing in a field near Staunton, Virginia. Two Du Pont scientists later took Geiger counters to the site. "It was `hot'- highly radioactive," Du Pont engineer Lawrence Cook reported. "We checked for 45 minutes-it was definitely `hot.'" In Puerto Rico, near dusk on December 26, 1964, Ramey Air Force Base radar spotted two large discs. As A4D jets streaked up to pursue them, the discs accelerated to terrific speed. Making instant right-angle turns-impossible for any known aircraft-they vanished over the Atlantic. On March 21, 1965, Capt. Yoshiaki Inada, piloting a Toa Airlines Convair on a domestic Japanese flight, was chased by a "mysterious, elliptical luminous object." Flying close to the plane, the UFO blanked out his radio and "violently interferred" with his automatic direction finding equipment. Puzzling earlier cases also are being rechecked. On July 1, 1954, an AF F-94 - a two-man jet-was scrambled to chase a UFO near Walesville, New York. When the pilot tried to close in, a sudden, unbearable heat filled the cockpit. Half-dazed the pilot and radar officer bailed out. The jet crashed in the street, killing two children and their parents. These odd phenomena, high radiation, mysterious heat and electrical interference may be side effects of gravity control devices. Like most people, you probably took gravity for granted before space flights began. Now you know, for example, that one "G" is the Earth's normal gravitational pull. This is what holds you to the seat of your chair-and more importantly, keeps you from being tossed into the air by the Earth's rotation. You feel two or three G's in a roller coaster or a stunting plane-a mere hint of what our astronauts have to endure during blast-off and acceleration. But gravity causes a lot of trouble and expense we seldom think about. Aircraft and rocket builders have to provide heavy engines, huge weights of fuel, just to offset gravity. In construction of buildings, bridges, and in a hundred other ways, G affects our lives and adds billions to the cost of work. Gravity control could reduce or end many of these problems. How soon can we expect antigravity ? Some researchers say it may take a long time. Others believe there may be a sudden breakthrough. If that happens, there will be some fantastic results. First, obviously, our space program would take a big leap forward. Instead of our present wasteful rockets, we could build spaceships matching the UFOs' high speeds and maneuvers. With such advanced ships, we could make swift flights to the moon and the planets. Recently, Alexander de Seversky stated that "with abundant energy available, we will move in space with constant acceleration or deceleration. Accelerating halfway to our goal and decelerating the rest of the way at one G or 32.2 feet per second, the moon will be reached in three and a half hours, Venus in 36 hours, Mars in two days, Jupiter in six." According to Oberth, German physicist Burkhard Heim and other scientists, gravity control will enable spaceships to reach even greater speeds than these. With such advanced machines, we could explore the nearest star systems a century or more ahead of our present timetable. Using carrier or "parent" ships with short-range probes, we could fully explore a planet - either by remote control or direct observation - before attempting to land. Many cases are on record in which large UFO's have lunched small units, apparently for close observation of the Earth, then retrieved them in swift, precise operations. In one such case (an official AF Intelligence report), groups of small UFO's flying at 5240 mph. were seen and tracked by the crew of an AF B-29. One group, after abruptly slowing to pace the bomber, resumed its speed within seconds. The small UFO's were then seen to merge with or go aboard a huge carrier which accelerated to more than 9,000 mph before it disappeared. Because of G-crafts' tremendous speeds, the picture of possible military operations becomes hair-raising. Let's take as a basis the figure in a documented case at White Sands Proving Ground, where Navy scientists saw and tracked a UFO flying at 18,000 mph. Such terrific speeds could put bombers back into the picture in place of missiles. Attacks by G-bombers from base near major targets would take less than five minutes. If a "brush-fire" war broke out halfway around the world, a huge G-transport carrying a fully armed division or even an army could be on the scene in 40 minutes, or less. Another effect of gravity control will be a big change in air travel. Here's what a G-liner trip would be like, according to several researchers. Let's say you are making a making a flight from New York to London. Your seat has no safety belts - none are needed. The ship takes off vertically, accelerating at incredible speed. You feel weightless but you feel no motion. The airliner arcs up into a great circle course, silently, with no "bumps" - no rough air. In 10 to 15 minutes, London suddenly takes shape below. There is no long approach, skimming over rooftops. You descend vertically and land. If traffic is heavy, your pilot would stop the ship in midair and hover until cleared. In spite of the speed, you'd be safer - especially in regard to many of the strange eddies which have thrown jet airliners into uncontrollable dives. In probing the riddle of gravity, project scientists try widely different approaches - some even contrary to accepted natural laws. [Does the following experiment sound familiar???....Vangard] Under an Army contract, a University of Detroit team has built a 4,000-pound, specially wired rotor which spins at 100,000 rpm. With this unique device, scientists are testing gravitational radiation theories searching for a possible key to G control. Using gravity meters based on new principles of physics Air Force teams make frequent flights around the equator and over the poles, to speed up world wide measurement of the Earth's gravitational pull. Tied in with this is a network of gravity stations and special projects all over the world. Though no breakthrough has occurred (unless in highly secret projects) two significant facts have been established. 1. The Earth's G field is relatively weak, compared with the pull of gravity between planets and the sun. 2. There is a connection between gravity and electromagnetic fields. Igor Sikorsky, discussing the colossal force of spatial G, says a steel cable about 8,000 miles thick would be needed to hold the Earth in its orbit - if it were not for gravity. But, fortunately for our anti-G search, the Earth's gravity pull, for objects on the ground or at average flight altitudes, is fairly small. Likewise, the force required to cancel its pull would be relatively small - if a method can be found. Using various barriers we can shield ourselves from heat, light and sound waves. But, so far, no way has been found to create a gravity shield. Some scientists still call the gravity shield idea a "lunatic fringe" notion. But many now refuse to say that such a thing is completely impossible. Are UFO's using a gravity shield ? In an effort to find out, the Air Force is renewing its attempts to capture a UFO. If we could get one on the ground, undamaged, it might make possible a big shortcut in our gravity research and save us years of slow, tedious scientific work. [As many of our user have heard, this capture of one or more UFO's is said to have done, refer reports by John Lear and the physicist Lazar......Vangard] In the past, many Air Force pilots have tried to down UFO's, without success. But the Air Force has new reason for hope now, based on the recent increase on low-altitude UFO approaches and "touch landings." On the night of January 12, 1965, an officer of a federal law enforcement agency had a close encounter. As he was driving his official car toward Blaine Air Force Station, in Washington, a flying disc 30 feet in diameter hurtled down at his automobile. At the last moment the disc arched up steeply, avoiding collision. When the officer jumped out, he saw the UFO hovering overhead. After a minute, it shot up into clouds at high speed. A short time afterward, the UFO or a similar one - was seen landing in a field near Blaine, melting the snow and scorching the ground before it took off. When the AF questioned the federal officer, they said they had tracked the UFO by radar as it raced down toward his car. This officer, like many other UFO witnesses was warned by his superiors not to let his name be used in connection with the sighting. On January 27, 1965, two NASA engineers sighted a UFO which touch landed near Hampton, Virginia. One witness was Maj. John Nayadley, a retired AF jet pilot. The other was A.G. Crimmins, who saw the strange machine maneuvering toward the ground. "It was zigzagging as if searching for a landing spot," said Crimmins. "I watched it through 20 x 50 binoculars and I could see flashing lights. They appeared to be on the rim of a rapidly rotating disc." Before anyone could reach the spot, the flying disc took off and rapidly climbed out of sight. The step-up in UFO chases was demonstrated at Washington, D.C. on January 11, 1965, when AF jets pursued several flying objects over the city. The chase was confirmed by an Army Lieutenant-Colonel and a group of Army communications specialists. If jets had been near any of the "touch" sites, they might have swarmed down and kept the UFO from getting away. But records of previous attempts to capture UFO's indicate it will be a tough job. Whether we capture a UFO or not, the search for the elusive secret will go on. The connection between gravity and electromagnetic fields may provide the key to the mystery. For several sears, Burkhard Heim, director of the German Research Institute of Field Physics at Goettingen, Germany, has been searching for the answer to the gravity riddle. Finally, Heim revealed that by direct experimentation he had discovered a positive lead to antigravity. The discovery involved an intermediate field, neither electromagnetic nor gravitational. The results, Heim stated, if applied to space fight, would be direct levitation, conversion of electricity into kinetic energy without any waste, and "immunizing the occupants and the structures of such vehicles against any effects from acceleration of the vehicle, however great and violent." After the first shock, several scientists examined Heim's claims. "His approach is not in conflict with known laws of nature, and it agrees with the quantum theory," A.R. Weyl said in an analysis for the British magazine, Aeronautics. "If Heim's theories were right, the amazing properties commonly ascribed to the `mysterious flying saucers' would be, in fact, sound physics and proper engineering." Through Heim's work toward the goal of an actual antigravity force researchers may discover new scientific laws and their work may invalidate old theories. Some scientists are already saying privately that Einstein's famous "general theory of relativity" may turn out to be totally fallacious. Newton's law has also come in for attacks. However, Robert Forward, G expert of Hughes Aircraft Company, uses the Einstein theory to show that it is possible to partially nullify the Earth's gravitational field. The amount of nullification obtainable with present-day technology is extremely small, however. Forward predicts that some day, when our technology is greatly advanced, we will be able to "create artificial gravity fields at will." With a real all-out effort this could happen a lot sooner than the 10 or 20 years many scientists have in mind. But getting enough top men to work in the field is a problem. One scientist says, "Scientists are sensitive about their reputations and many of them still think antigravity is a joke. If they knew the facts, they'd be eager to get into it." Fear among scientists is partially due to the Air Force censorship of UFO reports. Air Force censors not only hide the facts but also belittle those who publicly report UFO sightings. One recent victim was Dempsey Bruton, chief of satellite tracking at NASA's Wallops Island station in Virginia. On January 5, 1965, Bruton saw a strange round object flying at terrific speed toward the station. After it passed overhead, the UFO shot straight up out of sight. Using the elapsed time of six to nine seconds - and angles and times reported by other witnesses, Bruton said the speed was definitely "several thousand miles per hour, possibly 8,000 mph. or even higher." The AF, implying he was incompetent, rejected the report and said it was not evidence of any technically superior machine. But AF policy notwithstanding, the drive to get the secret of antigravity is well underway. It can't be stopped now. But it can be speeded up. We are already spending billions on the space program on the race to the moon, to Mars. Harnessing gravity could put us years ahead and save us enormous sums of money. With control of the universe at stake, a crash program is imperative. We produced the A-bomb, under the huge Manhattan Project, in an amazingly short time. The needs, the urgency today are even greater. The Air Force should end UFO secrecy, give the facts to scientists, the public, to Congress. Once the people realize the truth, they would back - even demand - a crash G program. For this is one race we dare not lose. Maj. Donald E. Keyhoe Submitted by : Ronald Barker Vangard Sciences ***** SPECIAL NOTE ***** Vangard Sciences would like to give special thanks to Mrs. Hetty Quarrella of Sterling Heights, Michigan for providing us with some old books and magazines for our library. Back
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: Agence France-Presse: Swissair Plane In UFO From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 02:33:33 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:21:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Agence France-Presse: Swissair Plane In UFO > From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) > Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 01:26:10 +0200 > Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:07:41 -0400 > Subject: Agence France-Presse: Swissair Plane In UFO > Swissair plane in UFO near-miss off New York > Agence France-Presse > Fri, Sep 26 1997 > GENEVA, Sept 26 (AFP) - US authorities have launched an inquiry into an > unidentified flying object that whizzed 50 metres (yards) past a > Swissair jet near New York last month, Swissair said Friday. > Company spokesman Jean-Claude Donzel dismissed reports that the object > could have been a missile, saying the incident was "very serious" but > the results of the inquiry were not yet known. This is curious. I wonder if it's policy for American agencies such as the FAA, and NTSB to come up with mundane explanations for strange objects that are seen in the sky when no immediate explanation is available. It's certainly concievable that such a policy might exist with absolutely no thought given to UFOs or some sinister desire to to mislead the public about them. The "massive government conspiracy" theory simply lacks credibility on such occassions. We have certainly seen incidents in the past when a UFO buzzed a plane and officials stated very honestly that they had absolutely no idea what it was. On the other hand Pat Cariseo said "it was probably a weather ballon" sounds to me like this was simply Mr Cariseo's guess (or dismissal) so perhaps we should not infer that this is the NTSB's offical position on the nature of the object. Maybe they need more time to review the incident. Either way the Swissair spokesman told the Zurich AP that the pilots told their officials that the object whizzed by and appeared to be self propelled. This conflicts with the NTSB's assertion that the pilots descriptions suggested the object was probably not self propelled. Quite honestly this is all conjecture here because there is no way to know by reading some tiny AP article. Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 27 ACC: Surprising New Development From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:48:54 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:23:30 -0400 Subject: ACC: Surprising New Development Remember my post about what I then thought was the first reference to ACC's Roswell page on the Web, namely Ed Wang's e-mail to Close Encounters Of The WWW Kind's bulletin board on August 14? If not, the URL of Wang's post is http://www.skynet.co.uk/~miami/cgi-bin/bbs/messages/25.html Ed was the very first to research the case, since ACC put up its Roswell page. In Ed's e-mail the hyperlink acsa refers to his e-mail address - acsa@ix.netcom.com - the same one that he has used during his subsequent investigation, and by a strange coincidence identical with the one that receives comments on ACC's Roswell page. Another observation: "American Computer Scientists Association", of which Jack Shulman is chairman and one of the co-founders, sometimes refers to itself as ACSA, an abbreviation which by another strange coincidence is identical with Ed's and the ACC address's username, and an ingredient of the URLs of American Computer Scientists Association's pages. An example is http://www.acsa2000.net/labfaq.html which tells about some of Shulman's accomplishments. But that is not all. Today I returned to Close Encounters Of The WWW Kind's bulletin board and found an e-mail of July 18 sent by an "Anonymous", a hyperlink that refers to guess whom: acsa@ix.netcom.com The URL is http://www.skynet.co.uk/~miami/cgi-bin/bbs/messages/12.html and these are the contents STAR DRIVE EQUIPPED SPACE CRAFT WHICH CRASHED IN ROSWELL [ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ Close Encounters BBS ] [ FAQ ] Posted by : Anonymous on July 18, 1997 at 01:48:36: STAR DRIVE EQUIPPED SPACE CRAFT WHICH CRASHED IN ROSWELL, NM IN 1947, IS HIDDEN AT BELL LABS AND HAS BEEN UNDER EVALUATION IN NEW JERSEY, WHILE THEY AND THE ARMY HIDE ITS EXISTENCE FROM THE PUBLIC !!! [ P R O L O G U E: I am an ex employee of Bell Labs. I worked on a very secret project called "Black Hole: Project Innovere" during the 60's. I am writing you this letter so that someone will know what happened after I die. I have terminal pancreatic cancer, resulting from having been poisoned by exposure to toxic substances that were fed me when I tried to get my employer to publicize the project, and seek Worldwide attention to the existence of what was euphemistically called "the Object" in vault 2037... I will be long dead by the time this message gets out. Please spread the word. My identity is inconsequential. What's important is: WE ARE NOT ALONE. NOTHING you are being told about Roswell, nothing you have read, nothing you have heard is true. The craft was only slightly damaged by the landing, but its operators, two "information gatherers", had been killed by radiation when their craft encountered it in space... and managed to pilot it to a crash landing here, hoping they might survive long enough to set a homing beacon for their kind to follow to reach us. Messages deciphered in the craft indicate that we, as a race, have been evaluated by this alien race, for potential trade negotiations and nurturing... When the ship crashed, it was rushed to the most secret of labs at Bell Labs (then part of the Bell System... Here's the story: ] The crash landing of a "Star Observer" craft from a base colony scientific exploration vessel that travelled to our solar system from Alpha Centauri, which then crashed at Roswell, NM resulted in the Department of the Army and Bell Labs conspiring to disassemble some of its electronic systems, resulting, in December 1947 with Bell filing patents on the "transfer resistor" - one of the more primitive, yet fathomable by Earth standards, devices. This device, the transistor, is the basis of most electronic systems on Earth today. Most of the electronic systems on the craft were far too sophisticated, even after 50 years, and are still being scrutinized. Some of the materials methods were adopted by Bell in subsequent patents on semiconductor manufacture, during the 50's and 60's. A primitive video phone ("Picture phone") whose design derived from a hand held two way video cell phone on the Alien Craft, was demonstrated in the early 60's by Bell. Video display technology licensed by Bell to Sony, Toshiba and Matsushita along with some IC technology, were transferred outside of the United States after Bell decided it wanted to horde the technological innovations (a project called "Innovere" - pronounced "In Oh Fir Ay") for itself. For further verification of Bell Labs role in hiding the discoveries on board the craft (which included some geometric anti raider, and some aerodynamics retained in US Bomber design) -- see the American Computer Company website at Http://www.american-computer.com where ex Bell Labs people have turned the whole thing into "poking fun" at today's Bell Labs (now split into many parts after the break up of the Bell System in the 70's). But, what they aren't telling you is: its all True! Truth is stranger than fiction. Insiders are now admitting the truth for the first time. The rocket drive (a neutron reaction mass motor with light speed capability) was jointly evaluated by GE's Advanced Technology Lab and AT&T's Advanced Technology Center, both in the Princeton, Murray Hill, New Jersey areas... See for yourself. Check out the dates, even the images of the alleged two year research by ignoramouses at Bell Labs like William Shockley can't explain how in under three months, Bell went from diodes to Transistors with no plan, nothing but circuits from a downed Alien Spacecraft! Did the Government break up the Bell System because it was afraid of AT&T - that it might have technology that would enable it to take over the United States, penetrate privacy and overthrow the Constitution? Follow Ups: Post a Followup Name: E-Mail: Subject: Comments: Optional Link URL: Link Title: Optional Image URL: [ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ Close Encounters BBS ] [ FAQ ]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: ACC From: Karel Bagchus <karel@atmm.nl> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:26:16 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:25:37 -0400 Subject: Re: ACC >From: fergus@ukraine.corp.mot.com >Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:55:10 -0500 (CDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: ACC >I've just spent a few moments trying to figure out why they keep >making these weird pronouncemnts about the alien origins of the >transistor [ Snip ] >Are they just nuts, or could this be a deliberate disinformation >campaign, with the intention of being exposed or disproved and >thus discrediting similar claims such as Corso's? It could be that the sender of those faxes is Corso himself, or someone related to him. Then again, it could as well be someone that wants to ridicule him (start out serious, feed more BS later on). The third possibility is the one according to ACC. And the fourth possibility is that it was ACC all along, seeking publicity. I don't know which possibility is the valid one. But look at the break-in report. It was said that a motion detector was smashed. I find that very strange, as there is no way to smash as "live" motion detector. In order to smash it, you have to move near it and swing at it with somthing. I think this would set it off. So I guess we can assume that the alarm was deactivated on the moment the break-in was happening. The Big Question is ; who deactivated the alarm ? Karel. -------------------------====### KUFOR ###====--------------------- Karel's UFO Research Karel Bagchus E-mail: karel@worldonline.nl WWW: http://home.worldonline.nl/~karel/ufo/ ICQ: 303261
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: UFO Near Miss From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:15:15 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:30:01 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Near Miss >Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 22:23:21 +0100 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFO Near Miss [...] >> It probably was a weather balloon, NTSB spokesman Pat Cariseo >> said Friday. >Well now we've got the NTSB getting into the act. If I was the pilot of >that plane I'd be jumping down the throat of Pat Cariseo. Now you've got >some bloody mechanic [I'll stay with that assumtion until it's been >clarified] telling pilots what they are seeing. I've seen five or six of >these things in the last 7 or 8 years, and you know what, they all >looked like a damn weather balloon. >> "(The sighting) does not lead us to believe that was something >> self-propelled,'' Cariseo added. >I don't know what these pilots saw but climbing out at 450 knots I can >assure you that it was not a weather balloon. They are too small and >going by you too fast for that crew to notice. Even in my little Cessna >172, closing on a weather balloon is a speedy process. You spot them at >what you think is at a considerable distance then the next thing you >know you are zipping by the little sucker and it's gone. If it goes by >that fast for me [at about 120 mph] you can imagine how fast this tiny >dot is going to expand and zip by a 747. The chances of them even seeing >something that small are next to nil,and for one to point it out to the >other? There's no time. >I'm also pretty sure that Cariseo knows that as well. >So come on Cariseo...put up your dukes. >Highly insulted for the 747 crew. [I wish I knew their names] >Don Ledger According to the AP report that I read, the weather balloon description was filed by a second flight that took off right after the Swissair Airliner. That is the basis for the quick "identification" of the object, and it should be noted that the NTSB said that it was "probably" a weather balloon. It would be interesting to get a better description of the incident from the crew, and also to hear the tapes of the conversation between the plane and Air Traffic Control right after the incident. Of course, no one is going to release this type of information unless someone digs for it.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: Agence France-Presse: Swissair Plane In UFO From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 12:47:45 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 21:29:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Agence France-Presse: Swissair Plane In UFO > Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 02:33:33 -0700 > From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) > To: Updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: Agence France-Presse: Swissair Plane In UFO > > From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) > > Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 01:26:10 +0200 > > Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:07:41 -0400 > > Subject: Agence France-Presse: Swissair Plane In UFO > > Swissair plane in UFO near-miss off New York > > Agence France-Presse > > Fri, Sep 26 1997 > > GENEVA, Sept 26 (AFP) - US authorities have launched an inquiry into an > > unidentified flying object that whizzed 50 metres (yards) past a > > Swissair jet near New York last month, Swissair said Friday. Snipped............ > This is curious. I wonder if it's policy for American agencies such as >the FAA, and NTSB to come up with mundane explanations for strange >objects that are seen in the sky when no immediate explanation is >available. It's certainly concievable that such a policy might exist >with absolutely no thought given to UFOs or some sinister desire to to >mislead the public about them. The "massive government conspiracy" >theory simply lacks credibility on such occassions. We have certainly >seen incidents in the past when a UFO buzzed a plane and officials >stated very honestly that they had absolutely no idea what it was. > On the other hand Pat Cariseo said "it was probably a weather ballon" > sounds to me like this was simply Mr Cariseo's guess (or dismissal) so > perhaps we should not infer that this is the NTSB's offical position >on the nature of the object. Maybe they need more time to review the >incident. Either way the Swissair spokesman told the Zurich AP that the >pilots told their officials that the object whizzed by and appeared to >be self propelled. This conflicts with the NTSB's assertion that the >pilots descriptions suggested the object was probably not self >propelled. Quite honestly this is all conjecture here because there is >no way to know by reading some tiny AP article. > Jared. Hello Jared, Stig and List I think that we are giving the NSTB validity that it does not deserve. Pat Cariseo's remarks were probably ellicited {wrongly} by a reporter when the Agence France-Presse reporter for some unknown reason called the NSTB for some explanation of the sighting. Why the NSTB? Who the hell are they? The NSTB investigates airplane crashes, it's that simple. They have no expertise in the UFO field and therefore Cariseo's remarks should be discounted out of hand. Pretty much the same applies to the company spokesman who says that it could not be a missile. How would he know? Don't forget that this is a very sensitive issue concidering the airspace the 747 was in, and the unexplained crash of TWA 800 and the allegations that friendly fire struck it, ie a missile. It would be interesting to know the name of the original reporter and find out why he chose of all places to contact the NSTB for a quote on a near miss by a UFO. It makes as much sense as calling a rep at the say the Academy of Arts and Sciences in Hollywood and asking for their opinion. Regards, Don Ledger Search for other documents from or mentioning: dledger | jared |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 09:28:10 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 21:21:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze >Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 10:40:49 -0600 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> >Subject: Re: Paper on Gulf Breeze >Greetings EBK, List, and Steven: >>To be honest, (and again IMHO) anyone who is familiar with this list is >>aware of the large articles that are published here on a regular basis. >>The concern about the propriety of placing the "article" on this list >>sounds pretty thin, although it certainly could be sincere. >Steven, I'm not going to comment on the above, because I have no way >of knowing Barbara's interpretation of list etiquette. I do, though, >think she should present her article to the list, before anyone draws >and quarters her for it, heh. I'm patient enough, usually. >>We now wait for the article to be fine tuned, and hopefully that >>will be completed soon. After it's posted, the real debate can begin. >Absolutely. That's the spirit of the list that we're all looking >for. >The only preface I will make is that I don't know Barbara, had no >prior knowledge of her stance on this issue, and examined what she >had come up with as a totally unbiased party. I hope everyone else >will do the same. As for debate, I will likely just observe, for >the information is less debatable [since it deals with what I view >as factual material, rather than conjecture] than most opinionated >works. >Regards from the prairielands, >Glenn Joyner >Dallas, Texas Barbara has written several short pieces on Gulf Breeze that have been posted to a web site on the "net": http://www.skiesare.demon.co.uk/bbongb.htm Since these predate the "article" in question here, I don't know if they make the same allegations, or if she has developed further information on the subject. To be honest, I just obtained the address and haven't had a chance to wade through it. It could be argued, however, that it speaks to the issue of "bias". I don't necessarily view "bias" as a negative, and it would have little or no impact on any "factual material" presented.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: ACC From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 10:09:00 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 21:25:45 -0400 Subject: Re: ACC George Fergus wrote: > From: fergus@ukraine.corp.mot.com [George Fergus] > Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:55:10 -0500 (CDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: ACC [snip] > Then, more wild-eyed allegations are made. Motorola is just a > front for AT&T. UNIX was invented by aliens, too. Wild-eyed is right, George!! As a former Motorola engineer I can assure the list that AT&T and Mot. are separate companies. Indeed, the two companies are competitors in many markets -- including cellular telephones. (I'm sure Bob Galvin is rolling in his grave.) AND, if the aliens invented UNIX, I question whether they are an intelligent species. Terry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: ACC: Surprising New Development From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 10:53:45 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 21:40:02 -0400 Subject: Re: ACC: Surprising New Development Stig Agermose wrote: > From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:48:54 +0200 > Subject: ACC: Surprising New Development > Remember my post about what I then thought was the first reference to > ACC's Roswell page on the Web, namely Ed Wang's e-mail to Close > Encounters Of The WWW Kind's bulletin board on August 14? If not, the > URL of Wang's post is > http://www.skynet.co.uk/~miami/cgi-bin/bbs/messages/25.html <snip> > A primitive video phone > ("Picture phone") whose design derived from a hand held two way video > cell phone on the Alien Craft, was demonstrated in the early 60's by > Bell. Video display technology licensed by Bell to Sony, Toshiba and > Matsushita along with some IC technology, were transferred outside of > the United States after Bell decided it wanted to horde the > technological innovations (a project called "Innovere" - pronounced "In > Oh Fir Ay") for itself. <snip> LOL! This is getting out of hand. In addition to working for Motorola, I have also worked for Sprint's "Meeting Channel" video conferencing service and am intimately familiar with AT&T's first attempt at vidcon. It was called the "Picturephone Meeting Service" and employed no new technology in the early 60's. The technology at that time was nothing more than than broadcast television and was supported by AT&T Longlines Video division. True video conferencing technology became practical in the 80's with the developement of video compression technology by Compression Labs in San Jose, CA. Now, maybe *they* used something alien. <G> BTW, did you know that ISDN was developed by AT&T to support their PMS offering in the 80's? While personal vidcon is now becoming practical, the primary use of ISDN today seems to be internet access. (ISDN - Integrated Services Digital Network = Digital dialup lines.) Terry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: UFO Near Miss From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:13:08 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 21:42:22 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Near Miss > Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:15:15 -0400 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO Near Miss > >Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 22:23:21 +0100 > >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFO Near Miss > [...] > >> It probably was a weather balloon, NTSB spokesman Pat Cariseo > >> said Friday. > >Well now we've got the NTSB getting into the act. If I was the pilot of > >that plane I'd be jumping down the throat of Pat Cariseo. Now you've got > >some bloody mechanic [I'll stay with that assumtion until it's been > >clarified] telling pilots what they are seeing. I've seen five or six of > >these things in the last 7 or 8 years, and you know what, they all > >looked like a damn weather balloon. > >> "(The sighting) does not lead us to believe that was something > >> self-propelled,'' Cariseo added. > >I don't know what these pilots saw but climbing out at 450 knots I can > >assure you that it was not a weather balloon. They are too small and > >going by you too fast for that crew to notice. Even in my little Cessna > >172, closing on a weather balloon is a speedy process. You spot them at > >what you think is at a considerable distance then the next thing you > >know you are zipping by the little sucker and it's gone. If it goes by > >that fast for me [at about 120 mph] you can imagine how fast this tiny > >dot is going to expand and zip by a 747. The chances of them even seeing > >something that small are next to nil,and for one to point it out to the > >other? There's no time. > >I'm also pretty sure that Cariseo knows that as well. > >So come on Cariseo...put up your dukes. > >Highly insulted for the 747 crew. [I wish I knew their names] > >Don Ledger > According to the AP report that I read, the weather balloon > description was filed by a second flight that took off right after > the Swissair Airliner. I am not aware of that AP report. Could you elaborate on it. > That is the basis for the quick "identification" of the object, and it > should be noted that the NTSB said that it was "probably" a weather balloon. Again, who cares what NSTB says? Where is their expertise? I'm not saying that this is some kind of UFO coverup, but how did the NSTB get into it? They have no primacy before an accident, they investigate after the fact. Whether they said "probably" or not, why were they even asked. In the scheme of things the NSTB is to an air investigation as a pathologist is to a murder investigation. You wouldn't go the pathologist to find out what kind of bullet was fired at someone that missed. > It would be interesting to get a better description of the incident >from the crew, and also to hear the tapes of the conversation between >the plane and Air Traffic Control right after the incident. Of course, >no one is going to release this type of information unless someone digs >for it. That might work if the tower tapes, if any, were saved, but the cockpit recorder recycles every 30 minutes or so. Again, the pilots were there, put their money where their mouths were, risked the standard ridicule and B.S. from the authorities [not even the right ones] and the pat answer from an unqualified source [NSTB], stands. Nothing ever changes. Regards, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 27 One Picture is Worth a Thousand Words ['The Gulf From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:36:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 21:42:46 -0400 Subject: One Picture is Worth a Thousand Words ['The Gulf ONE PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS Copyright 1997 Barbara Becker According to Walters, on November 11, 1987, he was at his home in Gulf Breeze, when he looked out of a window and saw a grayish-blue craft hovering just beyond a pine tree in his front yard. He grabbed his Polaroid Colorpak camera and proceeded to take five photographs of the mysterious object. After showing the photos to his wife, Frances, they decided to turn them over to friend and editor of the Gulf Breeze Sentinel Newspaper, Duane Cook. Six days later, on November 17, Ed Walters presented Duane Cook with the five photographs. The first and fifth of this series, along with a letter from the photographer, "Mr. X.", were reproduced in the Sentinel on November 19. Ed Walters claimed he continued to photograph the object(s) until May 1, 1988. It is impossible to know exactly how many photographs Walters actually took. Thirty eight of Walters' photos are used in the book, along with two from allegedly undisclosed sources. This paper will focus on the two other photographs and issues involving them. The first photographs seemingly corroborating Walters' photos were submitted to the Sentinel on December 3, 1987, accompanied by a letter by an anonymous person, later to be called, "Jane". A second batch of nine photographs was submitted to the Sentinel on December 23, 1987 by a person using the pseudonym of "Believer Bill". One of the nine photos, along with a letter from Bill, was printed in the Sentinel on December 24. These are photos 39 and 40 in the book. What do they have to do with Ed Walters other than they prove his story? Well, actually they dispute his story. During the first week of January 1988 a friend of the Walters' family, Tommy Smith, came forward and stated that he had been involved in Walters' UFO "prank". Smith said that Walters had originally asked him to claim to be the photographer of hoaxed photos and to deliver them to the Sentinel but he refused. Among Smith's other assertions was a claim that the "Believer Bill" and "Jane" photos printed in the Sentinel were actually taken by Walters in cooperation with another friend. The Gulf Breeze Sightings was published in 1990 and included the following copyright notice and acknowledgment: "Copyright: 1990 by Ed Walters and Frances Walters. Clippings on the page following page 256 reprinted with permission of Pensacola News Journal." Why weren't "Believer Bill" and "Jane" acknowledged as the Pensacola News Journal had been? How could Walters use the "Believer Bill" and "Jane" photos without the permission of the photographers? I wrote to the publisher, William Morrow, and asked them who owned the copyright to the "Believer Bill" and "Jane" photos. They replied, Ed Walters. In order to understand the significance of that admission, it is necessary to learn a little bit about Title 17 of the United States Code - Copyright Act of 1976. The most important thing to remember is that copyright belongs to the original author, in this case the photographer (1), until the copyright expires or is transferred to another party through a legal a document called a "transfer agreement" (2). It does not matter if the author is anonymous, or uses a pseudonym, nor does he work need to be registered at the Library of Congress for the copyright to be in effect. However, registration is a safeguard against infringement. Thus, whoever Bill and Jane are they own the copyright to the photos and letters submitted to the Sentinel. Duane Cook used the photos in the newspaper with the permission of Bill and Jane. When they submitted their photos and letters to the Sentinel they gave Cook a nonexclusive license to publish the materials. This means that the copyright owner allows the work to be used in a specific way, with permission, without relinquishing any of their own exclusive rights, or copyright. This allowed Cook to use the materials in the Sentinel or any derivative work in the same series (3). When Cook published the Bill and Jane materials, he actually secured their copyright as part of a collective work, the newspaper (4). Even though Cook had possession of the material objects, the photos and letters, he did not own them, nor did he have the authority to turn them over to a third party for publication (5). There are only two ways that Walters could legally own the copyright. He could have a transfer agreement (6) from Bill and Jane or he could be the photographer. I obtained a copy of his Registration from the Library of Congress in Washington, D.C. USA. Walters copyright registration for the photographs used in The Gulf Breeze Sightings is VAU-164-606, this is public record. It is a two page document, but we will only be concerned with questions 1,2 and 4; the remainder being irrelevant to this discussion. The following is taken from the registration. 1) Title of this work: Gulf Breeze Sightings Nature of this work: Photographs 2) Name of author: Edward Daniel Walters Nature of authorship: Photos taken by Edward Daniel Walters 4) Copyright claimant(s): Edward Walters / POB 715 / Gulf Breeze, Fl. Transfer: N/A The copyright form gives the following instructions for item four: "If the claimant(s) named here in space 4 are different from the author(s) named in space 2, give a brief statement of how the claimant(s)obtained ownership of the copyright". Ed Walters states the he is the author of the work - the photographs - he claims the copyright ownership and there is not a transfer agreement. This can not be misinterpreted. He claims to be the photographer of all photographs used in the Gulf Breeze Sightings which would include the "Believer Bill" and "Jane" photos. I decided to write to Walters and ask him. I began a brief correspondence with him in February of 1997. I wrote four letters, received three replies. The only one of real concern is the one dated March 8, 1997. In it I once again asked Walters if he were the rightful owner of the "Believer Bill" and "Jane" photos he used in The Gulf Breeze Sightings. He replied: Ownership was given me by Cook. The reg. copyrights are recorded w/Lib. of Cong. You are still on NOTICE. Signed, Ed Walters. P.S. next day. My copyright attor. assures me I have ownership. (Also copyrighted with Morrow Publishing. I will not address this further.) SEE YOU IN COURT. Once again Walters' ownership is confirmed. Walters states he owns the copyright to the "Believer Bill" and "Jane" photos and his attorney backs that up. Morrow says he owns the copyright, his attorney says he owns the copyright, and he says he owns the copyright then I think it is clear that Ed Walters owns the copyright. Unfortunately for Walters this admission gives credibility to Tommy Smith's claims that Walters took the Bill and Jane photos. With this in mind, all of Tommy Smith's claims should be reevaluated. From the copyright evidence it is apparent that Ed Walters created "Believer Bill" and "Jane". He took the photographs, used two different types of cameras, a "Hot Shot" for Bill and a 35 mm for Jane. This demonstrates his ability to use cameras other than the Colorpak and to produce multiple exposures. In addition to the photographs and letters, he fabricated a telephone call from the nonexistent Jane; including a transcript of the make believe conversation as a chapter in his book. It is obvious that Ed Walters is capable of an elaborate and sustained deception. This must at the very minimum cast doubt on everything he has said and done. Notes: Title 17 - United States Code - Copyright Act of 1976. 1) Chapter 2 - Copyright Ownership and Transfer. Section 201 (a). Initial Ownership. Copyright in a work protected under this title vests initially in the author or authors of the work. 2) Chapter 1 - 101 - Definitions. Transfer agreement. A transfer of copyright ownership" is an assignment, mortgage, exclusive license, or any other conveyance, alienation, or hypothecation of a copyright or any of the exclusive rights comprised in a copyright, whether or not it is limited in time or place of effect, but not including a nonexclusive license. 3) Chapter 2 - Section 201(c). Contributions to Collective Works. Copyright in each separate contribution to a collective work is distinct from copyright in the collective work as a whole, and vests initially in the author of the contribution. In the absence of an express transfer of the copyright or any rights under it, the owner of copyright in the collective work is presumed to have acquired only the privilege of reproducing and distributing the contribution as part of that particular collective work, any revision of that collective work, and any later collective work in the same series. 4) Chapter 4 - Section 404 (a). Notice of Copyright: Contribution to Collective Works. A separate contribution to a collective work may bear its own notice of copyright, as provided by sections 401 through 403. However, a single notice applicable to the collective work as a whole is sufficient to satisfy the requirements of section 401 through 403 with respect to the separate contributions it includes... regardless of the of the ownership of copyright in the contributions and whether or not they have been previously published. (Sections 401-403 say that any work protected under this act should display copyright notice where it can be easily seen or perceived.) 5) Chapter 2 - Section 202. Ownership of Material Object as Distinct from Ownership of Material Object. Ownership of a copyright, or any of the exclusive rights under a copyright, is distinct from ownership of any material object in which the work is embodied. Transfer of ownership of any material object, including the copy of phonorecord in which the work is first fixed, does not in itself convey any rights in the copyrighted work embodied in the object; nor, in the absence of an agreement, does transfer of ownership of a copyright or any of the exclusive rights under a copyright convey rights in any material object. 6) Chapter 2 - Section 204 (a). Execution of Transfers of Copyright Ownership. A transfer of copyright ownership, other than by operation of law, is not valid unless an instrument of conveyance, or note or memorandum of the transfer, is in writing and signed by the owner of the rights conveyed or such owner's duly authorized agent. Copyright information can be found on the web at the following site: http://lcweb.loc.gov/copyright/circs/circ01.html#toc: My notes were taken from the actual written code and may differ slightly in wording from those at the site. (Permission is granted for this paper to be reproduced electronically in its ENTIRETY. Reproduction in any other medium without the permission of the author will constitute infringement.)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: Loy Pressley <lpressle@webwide.net> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:33:45 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 21:24:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:38:52 -0300 > From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > > Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 06:37:41 -0700 > > From: Loy Pressley <lpressle@webwide.net> > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > > > Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:05:09 +0100 > > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > > From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> > > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > > > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > > >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > > > >Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > > > >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:55:58 -0700 > > Einstein said that the speed of light is the speed limit of this universe. So, > > if (and that's a big IF) one were to exceed the speed of light, you could no > > longer be in this universe. To bring this back to UFOs and assuming that U FOs > > are extraterrestrial and that the speed of their transportation system must > > exceed the speed of light in order to make visiting this world practical, wh ere > > are they when they are moving faster than the speed of light? Is 'where' ev en a > > relevant term in this case? > Sorry but there is no need to exceed the speed of light to > come to our solar system from another one. One of the key > aspects of Einstein's work is that as one gets closer to > the speed of light, time slows down for the things moving > that fast. The amount of slowing down is dependent on how > close to the speed of light one gets. At 99.9%c it only > takes 20 months pilot time to go the 37 light years to > Zeta l or Zeta 2 Reticuli. Hi Stanton, You're right, of course, with what you've said above. I believe the time dilation effect was experimentally demonstrate several years ago with the atomic-clocks-flown-in-jet-aircraft experiment. I didn't mean to imply that such travel was impossible (I think I said 'practical'). It just doesn't seem very practical to me to return to your home planet and everyone you knew previously was long dead and the world you returned to was unrecognizable because of all the changes while you were away. Even if you were a member of a very long lived species, after several such trips, big (and, possibly unpleasant) changes in your home world are likely to have occurred. In my case, I would wonder why I ever came back at all. Loy Search for other documents from or mentioning: lpressle | fsphys |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: ACC: Surprising New Development From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 15:04:17 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 04:07:17 -0400 Subject: Re: ACC: Surprising New Development > From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) > Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:48:54 +0200 > Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:23:30 -0400 > Subject: ACC: Surprising New Development > Remember my post about what I then thought was the first reference to > ACC's Roswell page on the Web, namely Ed Wang's e-mail to Close > Encounters Of The WWW Kind's bulletin board on August 14? If not, the > URL of Wang's post is > http://www.skynet.co.uk/~miami/cgi-bin/bbs/messages/25.html > Ed was the very first to research the case, since ACC put up its > Roswell page. > In Ed's e-mail the hyperlink acsa refers to his e-mail address - > acsa@ix.netcom.com - the same one that he has used during his > subsequent investigation, and by a strange coincidence identical with > the one that receives comments on ACC's Roswell page. > Another observation: > "American Computer Scientists Association", of which Jack Shulman is > chairman and one of the co-founders, sometimes refers to itself as > ACSA, an abbreviation which by another strange coincidence is identical > with Ed's and the ACC address's username, and an ingredient of the URLs > of American Computer Scientists Association's pages. An example is > http://www.acsa2000.net/labfaq.html > which tells about some of Shulman's accomplishments. > But that is not all. Today I returned to Close Encounters Of The WWW > Kind's bulletin board and found an e-mail of July 18 sent by an > "Anonymous", a hyperlink that refers to guess whom: acsa@ix.netcom.com > The URL is > http://www.skynet.co.uk/~miami/cgi-bin/bbs/messages/12.html > and these are the contents > > STAR DRIVE EQUIPPED SPACE CRAFT WHICH CRASHED IN ROSWELL > > [ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ Close Encounters BBS ] [ FAQ ] > Posted by : Anonymous on July 18, 1997 at 01:48:36: Nice work Stig, and you're right....something's rotten here. This shady story was posted by acsa@ix.netcom.com which to my understanding is Ed Wang's e-mail address. Does this look like something a former writer for the N.Y. Times would post to some UFO bulletin board?....I think not. Something's wrong. Jared. Search for other documents from or mentioning: jared | stig_agermose |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 DISPATCH #70-- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope From: ParaScope@AOL.COM Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 20:40:22 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 04:41:13 -0400 Subject: DISPATCH #70-- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope DISPATCH #70-- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope S O M E T H I N G S T R A N G E I S H A P P E N I N G 9/27/97 Quote of the Week "No man can always be right. So the struggle is to do one's best; to keep the brain and conscience clear; never to be swayed by unworthy motives or inconsequential reasons, but to strive to unearth the basic factors involved and then do one's duty." --Dwight D. Eisenhower -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Rant of the Week: "Elton's No Whore!" Every week we pick the wackiest, scariest, nastiest or funniest rant from the hundreds of letters received by us here at ParaScope headquarters, and present it to you as our Rant of the Week. This week, "Marylin" writes in response to last week's rant (a Rant of the Week first!), defending Elton John's ostensible songwriting laziness. Enjoy. "The 'gentleman' who criticized Elton John for not writing a new song for Princess Diana must , undoubtedly, be a song writer. How else could he know how simple it is to think up words and music , in a very short space of time; to work under that stress and pressure to ensure that the song is worth remembering; and to perform it himself while under great, emotional turmoil? Only true musicians know the process works when the mood strikes, not when one is forced to come up with something on short notice. Do I detect a smidgin of homophobia in the remark referring to Elton John as a "whore? Few musicians can rival the body of work created by Elton John with no two songs ever sounding alike. Few people know how difficult it is to accompany oneself, as he always has. If he couldn't think of an appropriate song, on the spur of the moment, surely he can be forgiven for adapting what Prince William desired, anyway. It was a most appropriate song for the circumstances- she was a candle in the wind, the like of which we shall not see again, for a long time, if ever. There are many people whom we refer to as heroes, in this world, becaause they have done somethimng so outstanding that everyone is made aware of it. There are also many heroes who go about their work quietly, not making a fuss, but just doing it. Diana may have had the press present for some of her charitable visits but someone in Britain should be able to discern or detect how many visits were unrecorded. I would classify Diana as a quiet hero; she made people happy through her genuine sympathy and compassion; she was not a phony like that toad of an ex-mother-in-law; she really seemed to LIKE people, and if she made them feel better for a time, is that not heroic enough? She had no obligation to be so caring and warm; it was totally natural for her. But to put Elton John down for not writing her a new song is indicative of the greatest ignorance about how the musical mind works. How many songs has this 'gentleman' written and performed?" [Reprinted with spelling and grammar goofs unchanged. Names changed to protect the ranters.] -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ NEW FEATURE! The Paper Trail: Old Secrets and New Releases Starting next week, our Dossier section unveils the first installment of a new monthly feature. Looking for the latest word on recently declassified documents? Ready to fill in the blanks of long-hidden history? If so, then follow the Paper Trail, where old secrets suddenly go public and become worth much more than the paper they are printed on. The first issue opens the vault on several recent disclosures, including the State Department's new history of covert war against Cuba and the long-awaited release of John Lennon's FBI file. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Blue Moons, Green Clovers, Yellow Stars & Pink Diamonds For centuries, folktales have claimed the existence of magical miniature people with mystical powers. Some benevolent, some evil, these "little people" are woven throughout our shared history, and share startlingly common traits across cultural boundaries. Have you ever witnessed elves, faeries, leprechauns or other wee folk? Where do these legends come from and what do they mean to our collective consciousness? Is there a scientific explanation for our continuing belief in them? Join PSCP 3000 in AOL's Grassy Knoll chat room (keyword ParaScope) Saturday, Oct. 4, from 1:00 to 3:00 p.m. ET and explore this enduring mystery. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Coming Up Next Week! Catch all these stories next week on a daily basis on America Online, or all at once next Friday on the web site! Conspiracy Newsline All the news that doesn't fit. A federal appeals court panel flames the FBI for its conduct at Ruby Ridge; a Miami school district plans random drug tests for all high schoolers whose parents give consent; Boston Freedom Rally makes history as the world's largest pro-marijuana legalization event; plus much more. ------------------------ UFO Roundup Get the latest UFO news and sighting reports, courtesy of Joseph Trainor's UFO Roundup! Strange fireballs spotted in Redding, California; rotating blue UFO startles couple in Ireland; unusual meteor raises flap in central Italy; UFOs sighted at desert army base in Chile; a report on heavy black helicopter activity during August; the UFO Files; and more. ------------------------ Fortean Slips: Omnibus Round-Up of Geek Tragedies This VERY special edition of Fortean Slips is devoted to weirdness found in the ultimate excesses of neurotic nerds and lovable losers. Your pocket protector will runneth over with such grandiose geekery! To wit: Virtual Love Doll: Hollywood high-tech meets the Internet porn industry in a frighteningly lifelike silicone replica of a beautiful woman -- and the only thing that's inflated is the price. Floppy Bacteria: Throw out your virus disinfectant software -- a new super-sophisticated computer data storage technology is derived from bacteria membranes. Comic Book Immortality: All his life Mark Gruenwald wanted to be in comics, and now the deceased Marvel writer's ashes have been mixed into the ink for a commemorative reprinting of his heroic work. Trek Addiction: Beam me to the Betty Ford Center, Scotty -- five to 10 percent of Trekkers exhibit symptoms of clinical dependence. ------------------------ Get Your Daily Dose! We've gathered the very best of our fresh, daily, interactive content and put it under one great area for you: the Daily Dose. Find out what happened today in ParaHistory, fuel your irrational paranoia with the quote of the day, vote in the daily ParaPoll and read the latest Conspiracy Newsline. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing! Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway? Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe yourself from Dispatch: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch That's all there is to it! Likewise, to unsubscribe: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch ---------------------------------------- ParaScope 11288 Ventura Blvd., #904 Studio City, CA 91604 America Online -- keyword: parascope parascope@aol.com World-Wide Web -- http://www.parascope.com info@parascope.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: parascope | listserv |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: One Picture is Worth a Thousand Words From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 10:09:19 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 05:00:25 -0400 Subject: Re: One Picture is Worth a Thousand Words Barbara Becker just forwarded me a copy of her paper on Gulf Breeze. I assume it will be posted here sometime today, and I won't bother quoting from it here (she doesn't want it quoted piecemeal in any case). Obviously Barbara's put a lot of time and research into this paper, but I can see why it hasn't received much serious attention. To me, it doesn't begin to successfully debunk the Gulf Breeze case, or Ed Walters. As I read it, Barbara's making two major points: 1) The "friend of the family," Tommy Smith, is cited as saying that he was asked to present the anonymous photos (which were published in the local paper, and again later in Ed Walters's book), as being his own. He refused, he said. He says that in fact the pictures were created by Ed. Now...I don't know why Barbara is taking Tommy at his word. In fact, this is simply a case of Tommy's word against Ed's. I can imagine quite a few scenarios where a former "friend of the family" might get pissed off and want to burn Ed, for reasons having nothing to do with UFOs. What better way than to debunk (or attempt to debunk) the Gulf Breeze case and implicate Ed in wrongdoing. At any rate, until someone else can confirm or deny Tommy's story, it takes us exactly nowhere. 2) Most of Barbara's paper focuses on the fact that the two anonymous pictures, which are similar to the ones taken by Ed and tend to confirm his story, have a somewhat uneven chain of custody, let's say. The pictures were attributed to anonymous citizens at one point in time, and are presented that way in Ed's book, where they were reproduced. But at a later point in time, the Editor of the local paper indicated that Ed Walters had copyright to them. Barbara quotes pages of copyright law, as if to prove that if Ed was claiming copyright ownership at any point in time, then he must have "owned" them from the very beginning. This case is extremely weak, mainly because it assumes that people always create oceans of legal documents to accompany all their daily transactions. Clearly this is not the case. I can imagine quite easily a scenario where two photographic witnesses bring forward their pictures of Gulf Breeze craft, but make it clear that they don't want to be identified. Perhaps the Editor of the Gulf Breeze paper knew their actual identities, but agreed to keep mum, or perhaps he trusted Ed's word that this was the case. For the purposes of the Gulf Breeze paper articles, and for Ed's book, it was important to establish that these pictures were taken by someone other than Ed, so as to substantiate his story, so the pictures where attributed to anonymous sources. But, at a later point, it would have been easiest to simply hand the pictures (and all the related hassles and possibility of being identified, which these individuals clearly didn't want) over to Ed. Here Ed, *you* deal with this. I wash my hands... >From that point onward, everyone would agree that Ed owned the pictures. He had possession and was free to do with them as he pleased. The Editor, knowing that Ed now had possession and "ownership," acknowledged this by stating that Ed now had copyright. I don't find this scenario all that unusual and it seems to represent a pretty likely series of events. The fact that there are no formal copyright agreements, or that none of the participants seem to be sticking to the letter of copyright law is irrelevant, utterly. My main problem with Barbara's paper, though, is that in attempting to debunk this case, it fails to address the two strongest areas of evidence. These are, a) Bruce Macabee's analysis of the photos and b) the extremely credible eyewitness accounts of real life-size anomalous craft. (If Ed *did* create these pictures in some fashion, the amazing thing is that he created them to look just like the *real* UFOs operating in the skies over Gulf Breeze.) Unless/until Barbara can convincingly criticize these areas, her case is dead in the water. Finally, there are the almost daily sightings of UFOs in the Gulf Breeze area at times. There is other very interesting film and photo evidence. There is the synchonicity of the military moving in high-powered radar equipment (or what they said was radar equipment) at the very time these sightings began. This case doesn't hinge on Ed Walters at all, we should remember. I'll close by saying this. I saw Budd Hopkins speak at a MUFON meeting last year and he was talking about the venomous, rapid debunking of the "Brooklyn Bridge" case. He commented that there are some rules of thumb in the UFO business and one of them is this: The stronger the case, the more violent the debunking. He cited Gulf Breeze as a prime example of this principle Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 ACC: Further Revelations From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 03:26:14 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 05:07:28 -0400 Subject: ACC: Further Revelations I have found an earlier duplicate of the July 18 message, mentioned in my previous e-mail, in the "Guestbook" section of the "The "UFO's, Political Scams & Conspiracies" site. The URL of the mainpage is http://www.advweb.com/kw/index.shtml and the URL of the "Guestbook", a bulletin board, is: http://www.advweb.com/kw/guestbook.shtml I am including the introduction to give you an idea of the page, and have some important comments at the end. *** UFO's, Political Scams, & Conspiracies Guestbook Check out the new Discussion Areas! Whoever is adding the javascript - try it now. :) ATTENTION: Please do not post lengthy messages here in the guest book. There is a new Bulletin Board available for this purpose which will allow you to post messages, reply to other messages, search through the messages, etc. Please limit your entries here to comments to Mary only. You are the 8800th visitor since April 7, 1996. Thank you for visiting our pages. We would love it if you would Add to this guestbook we are keeping! (snip) The crash landing of a "Star Observer" craft from a base colony scientific exploration vessel that travelled to our solar system from Alpha Centauri, which then crashed at Roswell, NM resulted in the Department of the Army and Bell Labs conspiring to disa ssemble some of its electronic systems, resulting, in December 1947 with Bell filing patents on the "transfer resistor" - one of the more primitive, yet fathomable by Earth standards, devices. This device, the transistor, is the basis of most electronic systems on Earth today. Most of the electronic systems on the craft were far too sophisticated, even after 50 years, and are still being scrutinized. Some of the materials methods were adopted by Bell in subsequent patents on semiconductor manufacture, during the 50's and 60's. A primitive video phone ("Picture phone") whose design derived from a hand held two way video cell phone on the Alien Craft, was demonstrated in the early 60's by Bell. Video display technology licensed by Bell to Sony, Toshiba and Matsushita along with some IC technology, were transferred outside of the United States after Bell decided it wanted to horde the technological innovations (a project called "Innovere" - pronounced "In Oh Fir Ay") for itself. For further verification of Bell Labs role in hiding the discoveries on board the craft (which included some geometric anti radar, and some aerodynamics retained in US Bomber design) -- see the American Computer Company website at Http://www.american-computer.com where ex Bell Labs people have turned the whole thing into "poking fun" at today's Bell Labs (now split into many parts after the break up of the Bell System in the 70's). But, what they aren't telling you is: its all True! Truth is stranger than fiction. Insiders are now admitting the truth for the first time. The rocket drive (a neutron reaction mass motor with light speed capability) was jointly evaluated by GE's Adva nced Technology Lab and AT&T's Advanced Technology Center, both in the Princeton, Murray Hill, New Jersey areas... See for yourself. Check out the dates, even the images of the alleged two year research by ignoramouses at Bell Labs like William Shotky can't explain how in under three months, Bell went from diodes to Transistors with no plan, nothing but circuits from a downed Alien Spa cecraft! Did the Government break up the Bell System because it was afraid of AT&T - that it might have technology that would enable it to take over the United States, penetrate privacy and overthrow the Constitution? News at 11... - TM Mule <mailbox@ix.netcom.com> San Fransisco, CA USA - Tuesday, July 15, 1997 at 21:07:30 (PDT) *** "Mule" is a link to ACC's site. Note that the part after "@" in the e-mail address is identical to the part after "@" in the e-mail address of the sender of the July 18 message, Ed Wang and the receiver of comments on ACC's Roswell page - acsa@ix.netcom.com. As ACC has its own server, several in fact, I think it is likely that the first part of the July 15 e-mail address, "mailbox", refers to a mailbox belonging to either ACSA, the American Computer Scientists Association, of which Jack Shulman, ACC's president, is the chairman and one of the co-founders, or ACC itself. Stig Search for other documents from or mentioning: stig_agermose | mailbox
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings From: Ted Viens <drtedv@smart1.net> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 16:38:04 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 05:09:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:56:43 -0700 > From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings > > Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:36:44 -0500 > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings Every thing snipped for the sake of our collective sanity... If you don't know what this thread is about, spare yourself and move on to the next post... Ed, face it, your initial "pixel" accusation was baseless, dishonest, ignorant, and derisive. John and company responded in an expected way with additional information that would be useful in further investigation of his claims. You reply by writing endless posts full of further insults yet offering no meaningful information. Please, spare us. Ed, apologize and move on to other things. This does require a certain maturity, but I am sure that you are up to it. We have gone overboard in our worship at the alter of PROOF. Proof in any system requires a rigid framework containing a known number of variables with known ranges. Without these limitations, proof is only a political term. John offers these images as corroborating evidence to the observations that he makes alone and in the company of others. If we think that John is being honest, we use the photos in our evaluation of his claims. If any of us think that John is being a liar and a cheat, then evidence of that should be brought forward. Comfortably assuming John to be honest, lets examine his evidence. His claim is that Unusual Aerial Phenomena can be seen from his yard. The phenomena is unusual because it remains motionless in the sky for periods of time, it does not resemble any known flying object, it moves very erratically. A group of images with only a single pixel indicating an object where John says he saw it is sufficient evidence that John saw something. A group of images over a believed time span is sufficient evidence that something stayed motionless local reference. The indicated angle above horizon helps determine the possibility of it being an object moving directly towards or away from the observer. Ah, but now it gets messy. What can the image tell us about the appearence of the object? Regretably, the fewer pixels describing the object, the less we can learn. The limitations go far beyond the computer. Lenses do not directly transfer the appearance of the object to the virtual image. They create a group of interference circles of elctromagnetic radiation that we perceive as an image. (Of course, this is also what happens in our eyeballs.) This begins the limitations of resolution. The image is captured by some process that further limits resolution. Some of these processes use image enhancement techniques that add distortion. Translation into a computer image, global distribution and shown on peculiarly adjusted displays with widely configured viewers only contributes to a degraded picture ripe for passioned debate. So, how many pixels do we need to give us real info on an image object? For a raw image file we can try these numbers. For an object lighter than the background, up to 3x3 pixels would not be worth trying to describe. 3 to 6 pixels wide at best indicates a solid object. 6 to 12 pixels would permit us a quess at gross detail. 12 to 25 pixels wide might give us some identifying detail. Above this the image object might become fairly representative of the actual object. For an object darker than the background subtract 3 or so from these numbers. For an object captured by video, add three or so to these numbers. To give some perspective to this, a red image object some six or so pixels across could range from an airship a few hundred feet across at a few miles to a pocket laser pointer some half mile away. John's pictures tend to corroborate his observations and tell us very little more about what they might be. What more can be expected? Bye... Ted..
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: jpeterson@polaristel.net [Candy Peterson] Date: Sat, 27 Sep 97 22:55:17 PDT Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 05:42:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous On Sat, 27 Sep 1997 21:24:16 -0400 UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: >Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:33:45 -0700 >From: Loy Pressley <lpressle@webwide.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous >... It just doesn't seem very >practical to me to return to your home planet and >everyone you knew previously was long dead and the world >you returned to was unrecognizable because of all the >changes while you were away. Even if you were a member >of a very long lived species, after several such trips, >big (and, possibly unpleasant) changes in your home world >are likely to have occurred. In my case, I would wonder >why I ever came back at all. >Loy Two quick cents: How many of the millions of North American immigrants or their descendants ever went back to their original homelands? Why presume space travelers would commute? The UFO phenomenon may be about fleeing, exploring, colonizing, shopping, vacationing, mating, shepherding, etc., or imaginal or otherwise indigenous to the planet. We just don't know fersure, do we? ----------------------------------------- jpeterson@polaristel.net (C Peterson) http://www.avesta.org -----------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions From: viggo.andersen@post3.tele.dk (Andersen, Viggo) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 16:30:55 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 05:53:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions >Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:58:21 -0400 <snip> >And Viggo notes: >> That's normal forgetting and remembering, not repressed >> and recovered memory. I hardly think that Loftus has ever >> denied that there is such a thing as normal forgetting and >> remembering. >Nope. But her Scientific American article struck me as a good deal >more moderate than her book. She never rejected normal forgetting and >remembering, but she more or less slid around it. She argued against >the idea of true traumatic memories suddenly coming to light. She >said, in effect, that there's no theoretical basis for believing that >there COULD be any such thing as buried traumatic memories. And she >did so with such vigor that it's reasonable to object: "But Dr. L, >isn't what you're talking about in the end just an ordinary, everyday >phenomenon?" Unfortunately I haven't read the book, and I'm of course no expert, but still, without therapy no memory recovery, because then it's just normal remembering. Ordinary everyday forgetting and remembering undramatic previous events (putting a key somewhere and forgetting all about it, for instance) would never cause controversy and even less a "Memory War" or a "Witchhunt" on alleged child sex abusers (parents! mind you) many years after the alleged fact. Some years ago I learned to know a woman in her late 40s, who had escaped from a marriage with a man who had sexually abused their daughter from the age of 7 to 14. The daughter was 22 when I learned to know them. They never forgot, and frankly, I don't believe it is possible to forget or repress something when it is going on for years, since my common sense tells me that repetition will strengthen memory, not weaken it. In short, it will work against repression. Needless to say, I wasn't there, I only know what they told me, and that I have no reason to doubt them. BUT, when it comes to something which can send people in jail we need PROOF, and nothing else matters. Because, after all, we have decided that the most important job of our court systems is to keep innocent people out of jail, which is why we have the judicial principle "innocent until proven guilty." Some people (many, perhaps?) erroneously think that the most important job of our court systems is to keep criminals off the street, but they obviously don't realize that if we didn't emphasize our duty to keep innocents out of jail we wouldn't need courts in the first place and could just jail everybody ever accused of anything. This puts the burden of proof on proponents of repressed memory therapy and nowhere else, legally as well as scientifically. BTW, which SciAm article is supposed to contain anything about abduction? There's nothing about it in Loftus' Sept. article, and that's the only one I know about. Viggo.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: ACC From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 06:53:14 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 05:54:50 -0400 Subject: Re: ACC >Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 10:09:00 -0700 >From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: ACC >George Fergus wrote: >> From: fergus@ukraine.corp.mot.com [George Fergus] >> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:55:10 -0500 (CDT) >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> Subject: ACC >[snip] >> Then, more wild-eyed allegations are made. Motorola is just a >> front for AT&T. UNIX was invented by aliens, too. >Wild-eyed is right, George!! As a former Motorola engineer I can assure >the list that AT&T and Mot. are separate companies. Indeed, the >two companies are competitors in many markets -- including cellular >telephones. (I'm sure Bob Galvin is rolling in his grave.) >AND, if the aliens invented UNIX, I question whether they are an >intelligent species. >Terry Indeed. I also think this is running out of hand. Motorola a front for AT & T, Unix invented by aliens. Give me a break! What started as an inquiry into the origin of the transistor now seems to comprise every AT & T product from the transistor to the video telephone. I still hope that ACC can add to our database by soliciting information through their web site and that they get together with the Sec. of Defense and the Joint Chieffs to get disclosure about Roswell. But, geez, let somebody tell Jack Shulman that he should get a grip on his people and stop them from making such absurd claims. If he is really going to blame AT & T for copying things like Unix and picture telephony from alien technology, he will be laughed out of the Pentagon and make a serious fool out of himself. The transistor claim is wild enough. Let him focus on that. __________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Technology Pages http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp \______________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Agence France-Presse: Swissair Plane In UFO From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 06:53:11 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 05:58:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Agence France-Presse: Swissair Plane In UFO >Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 12:47:45 +0100 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Agence France-Presse: Swissair Plane In UFO >> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 02:33:33 -0700 >> From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) >> To: Updates@globalserve.net >> Subject: Re: Agence France-Presse: Swissair Plane In UFO >> > From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >> > Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 01:26:10 +0200 >> > Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:07:41 -0400 >> > Subject: Agence France-Presse: Swissair Plane In UFO >> > Swissair plane in UFO near-miss off New York >> > Agence France-Presse >> > Fri, Sep 26 1997 >> > GENEVA, Sept 26 (AFP) - US authorities have launched an inquiry into an >> > unidentified flying object that whizzed 50 metres (yards) past a >> > Swissair jet near New York last month, Swissair said Friday. >Snipped............ >> This is curious. I wonder if it's policy for American agencies such as >>the FAA, and NTSB to come up with mundane explanations for strange >>objects that are seen in the sky when no immediate explanation is >>available. It's certainly concievable that such a policy might exist >>with absolutely no thought given to UFOs or some sinister desire to to >>mislead the public about them. The "massive government conspiracy" >>theory simply lacks credibility on such occassions. We have certainly >>seen incidents in the past when a UFO buzzed a plane and officials >>stated very honestly that they had absolutely no idea what it was. >> On the other hand Pat Cariseo said "it was probably a weather ballon" >> sounds to me like this was simply Mr Cariseo's guess (or dismissal) so >> perhaps we should not infer that this is the NTSB's offical position >>on the nature of the object. Maybe they need more time to review the >>incident. Either way the Swissair spokesman told the Zurich AP that the >>pilots told their officials that the object whizzed by and appeared to >>be self propelled. This conflicts with the NTSB's assertion that the >>pilots descriptions suggested the object was probably not self >>propelled. Quite honestly this is all conjecture here because there is >>no way to know by reading some tiny AP article. >> Jared. >Hello Jared, Stig and List >I think that we are giving the NSTB validity that it does not deserve. >Pat Cariseo's remarks were probably ellicited {wrongly} by a reporter >when the Agence France-Presse reporter for some unknown reason called >the NSTB for some explanation of the sighting. Why the NSTB? Who the >hell are they? The NSTB investigates airplane crashes, it's that simple. >They have no expertise in the UFO field and therefore Cariseo's remarks >should be discounted out of hand. >Pretty much the same applies to the company spokesman who says that it >could not be a missile. How would he know? Don't forget that this is a >very sensitive issue concidering the airspace the 747 was in, and the >unexplained crash of TWA 800 and the allegations that friendly fire >struck it, ie a missile. >It would be interesting to know the name of the original reporter and >find out why he chose of all places to contact the NSTB for a quote on a >near miss by a UFO. It makes as much sense as calling a rep at the say >the Academy of Arts and Sciences in Hollywood and asking for their >opinion. >Regards, >Don Ledger Don, The NTSB was one of the investigative bodies involved in the TWA 800 crash. The TWA aircraft contained many French citizens and the name of the NTSB has been all over the news in France last year and this year. The French reporter (of AFP) must have thought the NTSB was one of the appropriate entities to call for a comment on this near-miss. Maybe he still had its telephone number in his notebook. He was apparently wrong, but people who are not experts on airline regulations, especially non-US citizens, could easily think that an organization that has the word 'Safety' in its name would be investigating near-misses. __________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Technology Pages http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp \______________________________________/ Search for other documents from or mentioning: hvdp | dledger | jared |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 Historical Figures: Prof. Charles Maney From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 00:40:54 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 06:07:46 -0400 Subject: Historical Figures: Prof. Charles Maney Professor Charles A. Maney was head of the physics department at Defiance College, Ohio. He received his BA at the University of Minnesota, MS at the University of Chicago. He did further work at the University of Michigan and the University of Kenturcky. He died in the late 1960s. He shares credit with the late Prof. Edwin B. Frost, former director of Yerkes Observatory, for the first spectroscopic measurements of the internal motion of the Orion Nebula. He was author of several research studies in the field of higher education. In 1952 his research "Experimental Study of Sliding Friction" resulted in new concepts of sliding friction which were published in "The American Journal of Physics." Prof. Maney wrote extensively for Flying Saucer Review and other UFO journals. He also carried correspondence with a large number of people on various research topics. Unfortunately, most of his personal papers are not available and their whereabouts is unknown. He conducted a three way correspondence with Capt. William B. Nash and Dr. Donald H. Menzel concerning Nash's sighting of July 1952 over Norfolk, Virginia while piloting a Pan American Airway airliner. Most of the Maney-Menzel-Nash letters are available in Menzel's UFO papers at the American Philosophical Society, although Richard Hall also has some of this correspondence material. With Richard Hall, Maney authored "The Challenge of Unidentified Flying Objects." The quality of the private printing speaks volumes of the problems of publishing a UFO book in the early 1960s. Maney was a member of the Board of Governor of NICAP and an adviser for the Aerial Phenomena Research Organization (APRO). On 20 May 1962, Prof. Maney and six others saw a maneuvering light which turned sharply and changed speed and position erratically. An account of the sighting can be found on page 55 of The UFO Evidence. On page 54 of The UFO Evidence is an account from another university scientist of a 24 November 1960 UFO sighting that Prof. Maney obtained. My only contact with Prof. Maney concerned Project A, a UFO study, that Ohio Northern University had announced in the early 1950s. It failed to obtain enough sighting reports, and the project was closed. In the early 1960s, I tried to look at the project's records. I was told the records no longer existed. I wrote to Prof. Maney who told me he also had tried to obtain Project A's records and was satisfied the records no longer existed. (John Timmerman of CUFOS would later confirm this.) -- Jan Aldrich Project 1947 http://www.iufog.org/project1947/ ------------------------------- Index: NICAP Index: Early UFO History (1940-64)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 ACC: My opinion From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 08:06:34 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 06:11:53 -0400 Subject: ACC: My opinion First of all. American Computer Company is a well-established firm. Go to the HotBot search engine at http://www.hotbot.com search for American Computer Company, choose "the exact phrase" and see for yourself. ACSA has been around for some time, too, and done many good things. Cf. my e-mail about it some time ago, or search HotBot for American Computer Scientists Association, using the procedure just mentioned. I have a very hard time believing that a man in Shulman's position would dare being so callous as to exploit the murder of Jack Morton, in the same instant mentioning his sympathy for "his wonderful wife" and children, just for reasons of PR. He would live under the constant risk of being exposed, with disastrous consequences for his business. But of course sending information under all those aliases was thoughtless because of the transparent way in which it was done. If I hadn't noticed it, somebody else would, and I don't want to risk my credibility out of solidarity with his line of action. I think he uses aliases for fear of losing business opportunities, if he identifies too much with the consultant's Roswell-Bell claims, even more so because of his gross underestimation of the interest, the revelations would cause, as he himself has said. Some ufologists allege that leaking that kind of information has had disastrous consequences for some people's personal security, and it might be true in a very few abnormal cases. I am sure those days are over, though, and the otherwise candid Shulman hasn't expressed any fears going in that direction. Whether the consultant's claims are true, remains to be seen. Stig
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: MUFON According to DOD Official From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 01:57:13 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 06:14:02 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON According to DOD Official Errol, I posted the item below on the Project 1947 List. I note it has already started to circulate on other lists minus cautionary warnings. Some people want to try to sensationalize everything. This item has been published in several places including Strange Magazine. The article is *not* about MUFON or UFOs. In the large article there is only one small paragraph that mentions MUFON. Thanks. Jan "Operation Restore Sanity" +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ This is not new. However, maybe some would like to see the original document. DOD official assesses the Internet. MUFON mentioned. the following long article about the internet has a brief if inaccurate mention of MUFON and its aims. Please note that this official is speaking for himself and not DOD. Would be nice if he could get it right. STRATEGIC ASSESSMENT: THE INTERNET Prepared by Mr. Charles Swett Assistant for Strategic Assessment Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Special Operations and Low-Intensity Conflict (Policy Planning) Room 2B525, the Pentagon 703-693-5208 17 July 1995 Note: The views expressed in this document are those of the author and do not necessarily represent the policies or positions of the Department of Defense. See: http://www.fas.org/cp/swett.html ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Still other kinds of interest groups have moved online. Groups of conspiracy theorists exchange e-mail explaining their often bizarre theories about conspiracies conducted by the U.S. government in general and DoD in particular. A much better organized gr oup, the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON), has its own computer network with a gateway to the Internet. Much of the traffic on this network refers to U.S. military operations that members believe relate to investigations and cover-ups of UFO-related incidents, and other messages contain details on MUFON's efforts to conduct surveillance of DoD installations and to obtain information on UFOs that they believe exists in classified form. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ This is one paragraph out of a large article and this is old news, so lets not go off the deep end just yet..... -- Jan Aldrich Project 1947 http://www.iufog.org/project1947/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: Loy Pressley <lpressle@webwide.net> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 05:41:53 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 06:52:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 09:41:26 -0400 (EDT) > From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@yorku.ca> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > > >Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > > >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:55:58 -0700 <SNIP> > The speed of light is constant in a uniform medium > although we all know that it is not constant in all > mediums. Light will slow down as it goes through > a denser medium and it will speed up again when > it enters a less dense medium. A bullet cannot do > this so the reasoning behind your belief why the > speed of light is not constant is faulty. Does the above mean that the light I'm seeing here on Earth is moving slower tha n the light moving through space? Since the speed of light is connected to space/time, does this mean that time is also moving slower here on Earth than it does in space? > Of course, there are historical evidences that the > speed of light is slowing down with time and there > are many other sound arguments that try to show that > the speed of light must have been faster in the past > than it is now. Would you be interested in the > details for these evidences and arguments? I certainly would...but it may not be appropriate for this list. If you too, do n't think it is appropriate to the list, please send them to me at my email address shown above.Loy Search for other documents from or mentioning: lpressle | nikolaos |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 09:13:35 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 09:13:35 -0400 Subject: Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:11:51 +0100 To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site >Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 08:42:46 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: NASA's Mars Images May Show Archeological Site >In the meanwhile, of course, it is taking all kinds of very good pictures, >probably including some closer close-up shots of the Cydonia region than >we'll get from the later circularized orbit. And that will give them >plenty of time to figure out how to handle the coverup. E.g., that will >allow them to select inconclusive photos to show to the public first, >which will only hint that the Face is a genuine artifact, and then after >the impact of that has been absorbed, they could show more definitive >ones, etc. That's if they wish to expose this part of the coverup. >Otherwise, it could give them time to doctor up the photos in some way. >How difficult would it be, Bob, for them to touch up photos of the Cydonia >region so as to make it appear that a long-lived dust storm is in that >region, blurring out the Face and pyramidal structures? On second >thought, though, that would be too risky, as various astronomers might >have the telescopic resolving power to notice that no such dust storm >existed. > Jim Hi Jom, Hi Errol, Hi All Sorry its taken me so long to add to this discussion only I have to say the very least been very busy and its only now that I am starting to catch up. But to the point. Life on Mars has been proven and there is even pictures to prove it. Why can't NASA get off their high horse and say so? I enclose one of the pics to prove it.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions From: nick@emailme.at.address.below (Nick Humphries) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 11:14:18 GMT Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 11:53:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: viggo.andersen@post3.tele.dk (Andersen, Viggo) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Scientific American 'Explains' Abductions >Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 16:30:55 +0100 >BTW, which SciAm article is supposed to contain anything >about abduction? There's nothing about it in Loftus' Sept. >article, and that's the only one I know about. The Loftus article itself doesn't mention abduction, but the contents page by-line suggests that it might be a possible explanation. A poster on here just overreacted claiming that SciAm had just proved that FMS was responsible for all alien abductions. ------------------------------------------------------- Nick Humphries, nick@the-den.clara.net, at your service If the Truth is Out There, what's In Here? ------------------------------------------------------- The Your Sinclair Rock'n'Roll Years http://www.the-den.clara.net/ys/cover.htm -------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: Loy Pressley <lpressle@webwide.net> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 06:17:18 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 11:56:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 20:02:28 +0200 (MET DST) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > >Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 06:37:41 -0700 > >From: Loy Pressley <lpressle@webwide.net> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > >> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:05:09 +0100 > >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >> From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> > >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous <SNIP my previous comments> > The speed of light may be the highest measured speed in the universe. > But speed is distance divided by time. If distance can be > manipulated, speed becomes irrelevant. In fact, this is the principle > of the Alcubierre warp drive. Named after Miguel Alcubierre of the > University of Cardiff, Wales. > This text is an introduction to a paper by Alcubierre written in 1994. > It is shown how, within the framework of general relativity, > and without the introduction of wormholes, > it is possible to modify a spacetime in a way that allows > a spaceship to travel with an arbitrarily large speed. > By a purely local expansion of spacetime behind > the spaceship and an opposite contraction in front of it, > motion faster than the speed of light as seen by > observers outside the disturbed region is possible. > The resulting distortion is reminiscent of the > 'warp drive' of science fiction. I still say, if it is moving (apparently or not) faster than light and the speed of light is, in fact, connected to space/time, then it is no longer detectable in this universe...so where is it? Even using the principals above, the ship would be moving faster than light to an outside observer and, since the outside observer is dependent on light for detecting it, it would be undetectable to an observer who is not part of the disturbed space/time. As an aside, Einstein said that the speed of light could not be exceeded because an object very near the speed of light would have almost infinite mass and, therefore, the principal of an equal and opposite reaction that powers a vessel, would require an infinite mass to accelerate it further. This means to me that the apparent self contained gravity fields generated by UFOs is the way to go to, in fact, exceed the speed of light. If the vessel you are accelerating does not gain mass as it accelerates, an exotic, super powerful, propulsion system is not required to exceed the speed of light. Just blowing air out of your mouth, if aimed in one direction and sustained long enough, should easily be enough for the vessel to eventually exceed the speed of light. In such a vessel, acceleration, once initiated, would continue indefinitely as long as the self contained gravity field was operating.. No exotic materials required in order to warp space. 'Course it might require some pretty exotic materials to create gravity shielding or a self contained gravity field. But, maybe attaining that capability isn't as far off as we think. Loy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: One Picture is Worth a Thousand Words From: Perry Mick <perrym@teleport.com> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 04:39:27 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 11:58:49 -0400 Subject: Re: One Picture is Worth a Thousand Words >From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] >Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:36:17 -0500 >To: ufo updates <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: 'The Gulf Breeze Paper' >ONE PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS >Copyright 1997 Barbara Becker >(snip) >Once again Walters' ownership is confirmed. Walters states >he owns the copyright to the "Believer Bill" and "Jane" >photos and his attorney backs that up. Morrow says he owns >the copyright, his attorney says he owns the copyright, and >he says he owns the copyright then I think it is clear >that Ed Walters owns the copyright. Unfortunately for Walters >this admission gives credibility to Tommy Smith's claims that >Walters took the Bill and Jane photos. With this in mind, all >of Tommy Smith's claims should be reevaluated. In the Walters/Maccabee book "UFOS are Real, Here's the Proof" there are several photographs taken by people other than Walters. Photo W-430 by Bill Cameron from Houston. Photo W-82 by Baker Watson. Photo W-107 by Harold Bordersfeld. Photo W-115 by Gary and Joyce Tomlinson. Photo W-213 by Carlos Medeso. Photos W-241 and W-242 by James Warnerfred. Photo W-365 by Ray Harcourt. Photo W-397 by James Parker. Photo W-408 by Brian Hampton. Photo W-515 by Ms. Kieley. Photo 51 by Brenda Pollak. Photos 54A & B by Bland Pugh. Photo 55 by Patti Weatherford and Anne Morrison. The only copyright notice I see in the book is for Ed Walters and Bruce Maccabee. According to your logic, Walters faked all these photos also.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 Alfred's Odd Ode #185 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 07:53:08 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 12:47:15 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #185 Apology to MW #185 (For September 28, 1997) It comes to me just all at once; I've been too nice with you! You make your sounds of wounded disrespect=85 It's the sound of puling youth, its assumption of false penance. It's the sound of frightened young folks turning into their own parents. When the terror they've ignored grows too large to hide behind them, And the hammers of the gods begin their swing, Remember that they had their chance if college was their luck, But they wanted easy answers so their college blows and sucks. For all pontifications of the harshest of conservative, For all the stuffy nose-up false pretenders: The groups t'which you aspire wouldn't have you on a bet! If YOU were there, you take THEIR place; it's the way they play their set. The rules they make are for the masses of which you are composed. The rules are then their servants -- do their bidding. So tell me that you're comfy with their class manipulations, Tell me that this feels good, this slowest strangulation. Heat a frog in water slowly, inching up degrees=85 Heat too quick the frog gets pissed and hops. Heat the frog just slow enough=85but, watch it as it looks, And the frog will stay there floating 'til he croaks his last and cooks. Punish single persons, at your peril, with indifference. It wont be long they've made their way to you. Where's respect/consideration then, when you're the one that needs it! The road to hell is paved with oil, and still you lube, and grease it. Don't tell me that the church can see the truest demons clearly. Don't tell me that there's nothing in my sky. Don't tell me the police are even handed, un-diseased The records are completely filled with Sodom-sans-surcease. And still we have potential, and better's never been. We can talk out loud and clear (until you listen). Then huge machines arrive that can grind you up in gristle When one points out hypocrisy, rings a bell, or blows a whistle. You just don't want to hear it that it all comes down to you. You just don't want to hear you're on the blame line. But there's payin' for your playin' that comes due -- I don't know when=85 And it may be that you're prayin' for some chance to try again! Lehmberg@snowhill.com I'm asked, "If you think things are so much better now than they were then, why are you still running your mouth"? Simply, because *things* could so EASILY be=85so much BETTER -- still! ~~~ Consider you had, and will have, LAPTOP, real time full motion video and CD quality sound in a little *transmitting* station via your cell phone. It's hard for anything to threaten you in that kind of *personal* surveillance. Stalin wouldn't have been allowed to starve millions of his people in a pissy fit of petulant pique. We wont stand for it when our own starvation is pushed up in _our_ face very soon. China took a lot of heat on its paltry surveillance in the Square. Rod King burst a true cultural pustule when he exposed a very real police brutality via HIS video taping. How much crack can be sold on a street corner when the transaction is being recorded seventy or eighty times? About the only place you will escape the passive surveillance is in a place you have designated to be your own home (castle) -- as it should be. I want the guy who pops me to be on somebody's film somewhere. Like it was at Waco. Yeah, that's right =85 Waco. Anybody should be able to live any way they want to (within very broad borders=85don't insult yourself wallowing in the absurd) as long as it is not engineering the system to make me live that way, TOO! How bad can passive surveillance be if it can also keep tabs on the man who makes the surveillance? Then, maybe we _both_ stay off each other's ass a bit more. -- Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake after he'd had quite enough. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" Personal HARASSMENT; however, the harassment index is infinite for each of us. Consider the conservative youth.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculou From: Loy Pressley <lpressle@webwide.net> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 06:39:03 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 12:34:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculou > From: jpeterson@polaristel.net [Candy Peterson] > Date: Sat, 27 Sep 97 22:55:17 PDT > Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > On Sat, 27 Sep 1997 21:24:16 -0400 UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > >Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:33:45 -0700 > >From: Loy Pressley <lpressle@webwide.net> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous <SNIP my comments> > Two quick cents: > How many of the millions of North American immigrants or their > descendants ever went back to their original homelands? Probably, only a few. > Why presume space travelers would commute? It just seems to me that interstellar travel is so technical that the average disgruntled possible immigrant wouldn't have the technical ability or the where-with-all to attempt interstellar travel. 'Course, if your civilization is 5, 10, a hundred, or even more thousands of years in advance of our own, interstellar travel might not be that technical. > The UFO phenomenon may be about fleeing, exploring, colonizing, > shopping, vacationing, mating, shepherding, etc., or imaginal or > otherwise indigenous to the planet. > We just don't know fersure, do we? Of course, you are correct. It could be for a million different reasons that we can't even imagine. My ingrained, raised on Earth, human bias came in to play when I made the assumption that commuting between the worlds was necessary. Such commuting may be going on but it certainly isn't a prerequisite for interstellar travel. Loy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: mdavis@ccsmtp.glycomed.COM (Davis, Michael) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 97 15:34:02 pst Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 12:57:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 08:36:27 -0700 (PDT) >Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:27:23 -0400 >Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous >This topic seems pretty far out of range of UFO Updates. But where do you >come up with such stuff, Mark? The speed of light does depend upon the >medium it passes through, and its density. Variations of density thus... (snip) Possibly a confusion between the Theory of Relativity and the actual speed of light thru various media? ------------------------------------------------------------- http://csep1.phy.ornl.gov/guidry/violence/lightspeed.html The Speed of Light is Constant "To be precise, what we usually call the "speed of light" is really the speed of light in a vacuum (the absence of matter). In reality, the speed of light depends on the material that light moves through. Thus, for example, light moves slower in glass than in air, and in both cases the speed is less than in a vacuum. However, the density of matter between the stars is sufficiently low that the actual speed of light through most of interstellar space is essentially the speed it would have through a vacuum, so we don't make much error by ignoring the difference. The preceding statements about the constant speed of light refer to the speed of light in a particular medium, such as a vacuum. Within such a medium, the speed is constant, but light changes its speed when it moves from one medium (say air) to another (say glass). This change of speed at the boundary between two different media is the principle that causes a lens in a telescope or eyeglasses to work." ------------------------------------------- Michael Davis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Zeta Notso Rediculous From: mdavis@ccsmtp.glycomed.COM (Davis, Michael) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 97 15:57:03 pst Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 12:44:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Rediculous >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:38:52 -0300 >Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:33:22 -0400 >Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous >Sorry but there is no need to exceed the speed of light to >come to our solar system from another one. One of the key >aspects of Einstein's work is that as one gets closer to >the speed of light, time slows down for the things moving >that fast. The amount of slowing down is dependent on how >close to the speed of light one gets. At 99.9%c it only >takes 20 months pilot time to go the 37 light years to >Zeta l or Zeta 2 Reticuli. >At 99.99% of c it only takes 6 months pilot time. One goes >out, comes back, marries one's grandaughter's best friend >etc. The slowing down has been experimentally verified. We >physicists have made particles that go much faster i.e. >99,9999% of c. One would probably would use cosmic >freeloading to save energy along with clever engineering. >Stan Friedman Well, at the risk of being a smartass, Mr. Friedman..."Duh!" I think, ideally, we're talking about 'folding' space as Dr. Kaku says. Taking hundreds of years to make a round trip to Zeti Reticuli isn't really at the heart of the UFO issue here, virtually instantaneous travel time, i.e., 'folding' and 'warping' are, right? Michael Davis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: ACC: Surprising New Development From: viggo.andersen@post3.tele.dk (Andersen, Viggo) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 16:01:43 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 12:46:01 -0400 Subject: Re: ACC: Surprising New Development >Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 15:04:17 -0700 >From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) >To: Updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: ACC: Surprising New Development >> From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:48:54 +0200 >> Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:23:30 -0400 >> Subject: ACC: Surprising New Development <snip> >Nice work Stig, and you're right....something's rotten here. This shady >story was posted by acsa@ix.netcom.com which to my understanding is Ed >Wang's e-mail address. Does this look like something a former writer for >the N.Y. Times would post to some UFO bulletin board?....I think not. >Something's wrong. Seems to me that I'll have to tell something I know about Ed Wang, although I have not followed events too closely. He participated shortly on Dan Woolman's In_search_of list, until Dan had had enough of him. He posted about ACC's Roswell story, then began making wild accusations against everybody on the list, claimed that the whole list was out to "get" him, and that he had found evidence that Dan didn't own his web site, instead he was an employee at the company behind the tv series In Search Of, etc... Draw your own conclusions, as I've already done a long time ago. :) Viggo. Search for other documents from or mentioning: viggo.andersen | jared |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: ACC From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 97 07:26:26 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 12:48:05 -0400 Subject: Re: ACC >From: fergus@ukraine.corp.mot.com >Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:55:10 -0500 (CDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: ACC >I've just spent a few moments trying to figure out why >they keep making these weird pronouncemnts about the >alien origins of the transistor. This is stuff that >anyone with access to a good technical library can >easily disprove by looking up the original articles. >So here are allegations by some un-named >"whistleblower" some 50 years after the fact. But >they pop up just a month after similar allegations in a >book by Col. Philip Corso. Yet it is claimed they have >never heard of Corso or his book. It is just a >coincidence that this information is coming out at >exactly the same time, after not being mentioned at all >for 50 years. >Then, more wild-eyed allegations are made. Motorola is >just a front for AT&T. UNIX was invented by aliens, >too. >Are they just nuts, or could this be a deliberate >disinformation campaign, with the intention of being >exposed or disproved and thus discrediting similar >claims such as Corso's? >I guess we'll just have to sit around and see what >happens. George, I agree with you... I think they're nuts. <g> Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Surprising New Development From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 97 07:52:13 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 12:49:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Surprising New Development >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:48:54 +0200 >Subject: ACC: Surprising New Development >Remember my post about what I then thought was the >first reference to ACC's Roswell page on the Web, >namely Ed Wang's e-mail to Close Encounters Of The >WWW Kind's bulletin board on August 14? If not, the >URL of Wang's post is >http://www.skynet.co.uk/~miami/cgi-bin/bbs/messages/25.html >Ed was the very first to research the case, since ACC >put up its Roswell page. >In Ed's e-mail the hyperlink acsa refers to his e-mail >address -acsa@ix.netcom.com - the same one that he >has used during his subsequent investigation, and by a >strange coincidence identical with the one that >receives comments on ACC's Roswell page. >Another observation: >"American Computer Scientists Association", of which >Jack Shulman is chairman and one of the co-founders, >sometimes refers to itself as ACSA, an abbreviation >which by another strange coincidence is identical with >Ed's and the ACC address's username, and an >ingredient of the URLs of American Computer >Scientists Association's pages. An example is >http://www.acsa2000.net/labfaq.html >which tells about some of Shulman's accomplishments. >But that is not all. Today I returned to Close >Encounters Of The WWW Kind's bulletin board and found >an e-mail of July 18 sent by an "Anonymous", a >hyperlink that refers to guess whom: >acsa@ix.netcom.com Has anyone checked to see how long ACC has actually been in business? Perhaps right around the time Corso's book came out? I think to myself... if I were an entrepreneur selling computers (low profit margins), would I want to associate my business with UFOs, Roswell, and the history of transistors? I would think that most rational people buying computers would stay the hell away from my company... So this poses the question... Is it conceivable that Jack Shulman has ACC as merely a front (perhaps the CIA) for spewing of disinformation? Note the CIA is historically known to do this... Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA Search for other documents from or mentioning: rprokic | stig_agermose
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: MUFON According to DOD Official From: galevy@pipeline.com [Gary Alevy] Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 11:16:34 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 12:52:09 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON According to DOD Official > Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 01:57:13 -0700 > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: MUFON According to DOD Official > Errol, > I posted the item below on the Project 1947 List. I note > it has already started to circulate on other lists minus > cautionary warnings. Some people want to try to > sensationalize everything. This item has been published in > several places including Strange Magazine. The article is > *not* about MUFON or UFOs. In the large article > there is only one small paragraph that mentions MUFON. > Thanks. > Jan > "Operation Restore Sanity" > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > This is not new. However, maybe some would like to > see the original document. > DOD official assesses the Internet. MUFON mentioned. > the following long article about the internet has a > brief if inaccurate mention of MUFON and its aims. > Please note that this official is speaking for himself > and not DOD. > Would be nice if he could get it right. > STRATEGIC ASSESSMENT: THE INTERNET > Prepared by > Mr. Charles Swett > Assistant for Strategic Assessment > Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Special > Operations and Low-Intensity Conflict > (Policy Planning) > Room 2B525, the Pentagon 703-693-5208 17 July 1995 > Note: The views expressed in this document are those of > the author and do not necessarily represent the policies > or positions of the Department of Defense. > See: > http://www.fas.org/cp/swett.html > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Still other kinds of interest groups have moved online. > Groups of conspiracy theorists exchange e-mail explaining > their often bizarre theories about conspiracies conducted > by the U.S. government in general and DoD in particular. > A much better organized gr oup, the Mutual UFO Network > (MUFON), has its own computer network with a gateway > to the Internet. Much of the traffic on this network refers > to U.S. military operations that members believe relate to > investigations and cover-ups of UFO-related incidents, and > other messages contain details on MUFON's efforts to conduct > surveillance of DoD installations and to obtain information > on UFOs that they believe exists in classified form. > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > This is one paragraph out of a large article and this is old > news, so lets not go off the deep end just yet..... > -- > Jan Aldrich > Project 1947 > http://www.iufog.org/project1947/ Jan, Nice damage control. You know at one time the peasants couldn't read. A not too long ago there wasn't an internet. Ah, for the good old days. Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: ACC: Further Revelations From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 09:11:30 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 12:53:20 -0400 Subject: Re: ACC: Further Revelations > From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) > Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 03:26:14 +0200 > Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 05:07:28 -0400 > Subject: ACC: Further Revelations > Did the Government break up the Bell System because it was afraid of > AT&T - that it might have technology that would enable it to take over > the United States, penetrate privacy and overthrow the Constitution? > News at 11... > - TM > Mule <mailbox@ix.netcom.com> > San Fransisco, CA USA - Tuesday, July 15, 1997 at 21:07:30 (PDT) > *** > "Mule" is a link to ACC's site. > Note that the part after "@" in the e-mail address is identical to the > part after "@" in the e-mail address of the sender of the July 18 > message, Ed Wang and the receiver of comments on ACC's Roswell page - > acsa@ix.netcom.com. As ACC has its own server, several in fact, I think > it is likely that the first part of the July 15 e-mail address, > "mailbox", refers to a mailbox belonging to either ACSA, the American > Computer Scientists Association, of which Jack Shulman, ACC's > Stig Stig, An FYI mailbox@ix.netcom.com is the e-mail address for Bob Wolf. At the time Bob was corresponding with me back when this whole mess started, that was the e-mail address he was using and I know of no other address for this man nor have I been aware that mail sent to this address was reaching anyone other than he. Jared. Search for other documents from or mentioning: jared | stig_agermose |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 One Picture is Worth a Thousand Words - Correct From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 13:08:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 13:08:07 -0400 Subject: One Picture is Worth a Thousand Words - Correct Please replace the first version with the corrected version below. ebk __________________________________________________ From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:36:17 -0500 To: ufo updates <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: 'The Gulf Breeze Paper' ONE PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS Copyright 1997 Barbara Becker For those not familiar with the Gulf Breeze, Florida (USA) UFO story or one of its most controversial characters, Edward Walters, I will present a brief history. A complete account can be found in The Gulf Breeze Sightings: The Most Astounding Multiple Sightings of UFOs in U.S. History. Ed Walters and Frances Walters. Morrow Publishing, 1990. According to Walters, on November 11, 1987, he was at his home in Gulf Breeze, when he looked out of a window and saw a grayish-blue craft hovering just beyond a pine tree in his front yard. He grabbed his Polaroid Colorpak camera and proceeded to take five photographs of the mysterious object. After showing the photos to his wife, Frances, they decided to turn them over to friend and editor of the Gulf Breeze Sentinel Newspaper, Duane Cook. Six days later, on November 17, Ed Walters presented Duane Cook with the five photographs. The first and fifth of this series, along with a letter from the photographer, "Mr. X.", were reproduced in the Sentinel on November 19. Ed Walters claimed he continued to photograph the object(s) until May 1, 1988. It is impossible to know exactly how many photographs Walters actually took. Thirty eight of Walters' photos are used in the book, along with two from allegedly undisclosed sources. This paper will focus on the two other photographs and issues involving them. The first photographs seemingly corroborating Walters' photos were submitted to the Sentinel on December 3, 1987, accompanied by a letter by an anonymous person, later to be called, "Jane". A second batch of nine photographs was submitted to the Sentinel on December 23, 1987 by a person using the pseudonym of "Believer Bill". One of the nine photos, along with a letter from Bill, was printed in the Sentinel on December 24. These are photos 39 and 40 in the book. What do they have to do with Ed Walters other than they prove his story? Well, actually they dispute his story. During the first week of January 1988 a friend of the Walters' family, Tommy Smith, came forward and stated that he had been involved in Walters' UFO "prank". Smith said that Walters had originally asked him to claim to be the photographer of hoaxed photos and to deliver them to the Sentinel but he refused. Among Smith's other assertions was a claim that the "Believer Bill" and "Jane" photos printed in the Sentinel were actually taken by Walters in cooperation with another friend. The Gulf Breeze Sightings was published in 1990 and included the following copyright notice and acknowledgment: "Copyright: 1990 by Ed Walters and Frances Walters. Clippings on the page following page 256 reprinted with permission of Pensacola News Journal." Why weren't "Believer Bill" and "Jane" acknowledged as the Pensacola News Journal had been? How could Walters use the "Believer Bill" and "Jane" photos without the permission of the photographers? I wrote to the publisher, William Morrow, and asked them who owned the copyright to the "Believer Bill" and "Jane" photos. They replied, Ed Walters. In order to understand the significance of that admission, it is necessary to learn a little bit about Title 17 of the United States Code - Copyright Act of 1976. The most important thing to remember is that copyright belongs to the original author, in this case the photographer (1), until the copyright expires or is transferred to another party through a legal a document called a "transfer agreement" (2). It does not matter if the author is anonymous, or uses a pseudonym, nor does he work need to be registered at the Library of Congress for the copyright to be in effect. However, registration is a safeguard against infringement. Thus, whoever Bill and Jane are they own the copyright to the photos and letters submitted to the Sentinel. Duane Cook used the photos in the newspaper with the permission of Bill and Jane. When they submitted their photos and letters to the Sentinel they gave Cook a nonexclusive license to publish the materials. This means that the copyright owner allows the work to be used in a specific way, with permission, without relinquishing any of their own exclusive rights, or copyright. This allowed Cook to use the materials in the Sentinel or any derivative work in the same series (3). When Cook published the Bill and Jane materials, he actually secured their copyright as part of a collective work, the newspaper (4). Even though Cook had possession of the material objects, the photos and letters, he did not own them, nor did he have the authority to turn them over to a third party for publication (5). There are only two ways that Walters could legally own the copyright. He could have a transfer agreement (6) from Bill and Jane or he could be the photographer. I obtained a copy of his Registration from the Library of Congress in Washington, D.C. USA. Walters copyright registration for the photographs used in The Gulf Breeze Sightings is VAU-164-606, this is public record. It is a two page document, but we will only be concerned with questions 1,2 and 4; the remainder being irrelevant to this discussion. The following is taken from the registration. 1) Title of this work: Gulf Breeze Sightings Nature of this work: Photographs 2) Name of author: Edward Daniel Walters Nature of authorship: Photos taken by Edward Daniel Walters 4) Copyright claimant(s): Edward Walters / POB 715 / Gulf Breeze, Fl. Transfer: N/A The copyright form gives the following instructions for item four: "If the claimant(s) named here in space 4 are different from the author(s) named in space 2, give a brief statement of how the claimant(s)obtained ownership of the copyright". Ed Walters states the he is the author of the work - the photographs - he claims the copyright ownership and there is not a transfer agreement. This can not be misinterpreted. He claims to be the photographer of all photographs used in the Gulf Breeze Sightings which would include the "Believer Bill" and "Jane" photos. I decided to write to Walters and ask him. I began a brief correspondence with him in February of 1997. I wrote four letters, received three replies. The only one of real concern is the one dated March 8, 1997. In it I once again asked Walters if he were the rightful owner of the "Believer Bill" and "Jane" photos he used in The Gulf Breeze Sightings. He replied: Ownership was given me by Cook. The reg. copyrights are recorded w/Lib. of Cong. You are still on NOTICE. Signed, Ed Walters. P.S. next day. My copyright attor. assures me I have ownership. (Also copyrighted with Morrow Publishing. I will not address this further.) SEE YOU IN COURT. Once again Walters' ownership is confirmed. Walters states he owns the copyright to the "Believer Bill" and "Jane" photos and his attorney backs that up. Morrow says he owns the copyright, his attorney says he owns the copyright, and he says he owns the copyright then I think it is clear that Ed Walters owns the copyright. Unfortunately for Walters this admission gives credibility to Tommy Smith's claims that Walters took the Bill and Jane photos. With this in mind, all of Tommy Smith's claims should be reevaluated. From the copyright evidence it is apparent that Ed Walters created "Believer Bill" and "Jane". He took the photographs, used two different types of cameras, a "Hot Shot" for Bill and a 35 mm for Jane. This demonstrates his ability to use cameras other than the Colorpak and to produce multiple exposures. In addition to the photographs and letters, he fabricated a telephone call from the nonexistent Jane; including a transcript of the make believe conversation as a chapter in his book. It is obvious that Ed Walters is capable of an elaborate and sustained deception. This must at the very minimum cast doubt on everything he has said and done. Notes: Title 17 - United States Code - Copyright Act of 1976. 1) Chapter 2 - Copyright Ownership and Transfer. Section 201 (a). Initial Ownership. Copyright in a work protected under this title vests initially in the author or authors of the work. 2) Chapter 1 - 101 - Definitions. Transfer agreement. A transfer of copyright ownership" is an assignment, mortgage, exclusive license, or any other conveyance, alienation, or hypothecation of a copyright or any of the exclusive rights comprised in a copyright, whether or not it is limited in time or place of effect, but not including a nonexclusive license. 3) Chapter 2 - Section 201(c). Contributions to Collective Works. Copyright in each separate contribution to a collective work is distinct from copyright in the collective work as a whole, and vests initially in the author of the contribution. In the absence of an express transfer of the copyright or any rights under it, the owner of copyright in the collective work is presumed to have acquired only the privilege of reproducing and distributing the contribution as part of that particular collective work, any revision of that collective work, and any later collective work in the same series. 4) Chapter 4 - Section 404 (a). Notice of Copyright: Contribution to Collective Works. A separate contribution to a collective work may bear its own notice of copyright, as provided by sections 401 through 403. However, a single notice applicable to the collective work as a whole is sufficient to satisfy the requirements of section 401 through 403 with respect to the separate contributions it includes... regardless of the of the ownership of copyright in the contributions and whether or not they have been previously published. (Sections 401-403 say that any work protected under this act should display copyright notice where it can be easily seen or perceived.) 5) Chapter 2 - Section 202. Ownership of Material Object as Distinct from Ownership of Material Object. Ownership of a copyright, or any of the exclusive rights under a copyright, is distinct from ownership of any material object in which the work is embodied. Transfer of ownership of any material object, including the copy of phonorecord in which the work is first fixed, does not in itself convey any rights in the copyrighted work embodied in the object; nor, in the absence of an agreement, does transfer of ownership of a copyright or any of the exclusive rights under a copyright convey rights in any material object. 6) Chapter 2 - Section 204 (a). Execution of Transfers of Copyright Ownership. A transfer of copyright ownership, other than by operation of law, is not valid unless an instrument of conveyance, or note or memorandum of the transfer, is in writing and signed by the owner of the rights conveyed or such owner's duly authorized agent. Copyright information can be found on the web at the following site: http://lcweb.loc.gov/copyright/circs/circ01.html#toc: My notes were taken from the actual written code and may differ slightly in wording from those at the site. (Permission is granted for this paper to be reproduced electronically in its ENTIRETY. Reproduction in any other medium without the permission of the author will constitute infringement.)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: One Picture is Worth a Thousand Words From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 11:48:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 13:04:32 -0400 Subject: Re: One Picture is Worth a Thousand Words > Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 04:39:27 -0700 (PDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Perry Mick <perrym@teleport.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: One Picture is Worth a Thousand Words > >From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > >Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:36:17 -0500 > >To: ufo updates <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: 'The Gulf Breeze Paper' > >ONE PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS > >Copyright 1997 Barbara Becker > >(snip) > >Once again Walters' ownership is confirmed. Walters states > >he owns the copyright to the "Believer Bill" and "Jane" > >photos and his attorney backs that up. Morrow says he owns > >the copyright, his attorney says he owns the copyright, and > >he says he owns the copyright then I think it is clear > >that Ed Walters owns the copyright. Unfortunately for Walters > >this admission gives credibility to Tommy Smith's claims that > >Walters took the Bill and Jane photos. With this in mind, all > >of Tommy Smith's claims should be reevaluated. > > In the Walters/Maccabee book "UFOS are Real, Here's the Proof" there > are several photographs taken by people other than Walters. Photo > W-430 by Bill Cameron from Houston. Photo W-82 by Baker Watson. Photo > W-107 by Harold Bordersfeld. Photo W-115 by Gary and Joyce Tomlinson. > Photo W-213 by Carlos Medeso. Photos W-241 and W-242 by James... snip > The only copyright notice I see in the book is for Ed Walters and > Bruce Maccabee. According to your logic, Walters faked all these > photos also. I will not discuss Bruce's and Ed's joint effort. However regarding CR: It would not be any different than B&J giving Duane Cook permission to use the photos and letters in the Sentinel. It would be a non-exclusive license to publish...the "right" to use the photos in the book. It would not mean that Walters/Maccabee owned the copyright unless there is a transfer agreement. Once again, by publishing the names in the book the copyrights are secured legally (to those people) just like when Cook used B&J. Barbara
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 37 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 13:01:41 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 13:30:42 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 37 --------------------- UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 37 September 28, 1997 Editor: Joseph Trainor STRANGE LIGHTS SEEN OVER SCOTLAND'S EAST COAST On Monday, September 22, 1997, at 11:30 p.m., people living in Tyne Tees and other communities along Scotland's eastern shore reported seeing "bright objects of various sizes, emitting light." According to Richard Gall, Scotland's director of Skywatch International, "Lights were observed shooting across each other, and then witnesses heard several loud explosions followed by light flashes and a crackling sound." One woman reported seeing "what appeared to be a comet with a red tail." The UFO approached to within 300 meters of her. Scotland's Rescue Service dispatched a lifeboat, to reportedly search for survivors and debris from "a mid-air collision." Edinburgh University stated that the incident may have been caused by a bolide, or exploding meteor, that scattered fiery debris over a wide area. Craig Lindsey, spokesman for the UK Ministry of Defence at RAF Kinloss, said the military were "checking the area" and had begun "an investigation into these reports." (Many thanks to Richard Gall of Skywatch International for this story.) UFO FORMATION SIGHTED AT PONCHA PASS, COLORADO On Sunday, September 21, 1997, at 9:25 p.m., witnesses in Saguache, Colorado (population 656) sighted a strange aerial formation crossing the San Luis Valley from west to east, about 45 miles (72 kilometers) north of town. According to ufologist Christopher O'Brien, author of THE MYSTERIOUS VALLEY (St. Martin's Paperbacks, 1996), "For 15 to 20 minutes, blinking objects (choppers?) were seen escorting a slow-moving, large orange-red globe west to east...This formation of four to five blinking lights, low over the mountains, was observed traveling west to east from the Marshall Pass to the Poncha Pass areas." "Further north, around Villa Grove, at a higher elevation, a bright light hovered, flashing red and green. This larger, closer light then drifted north." Witnesses using night vision binoculars on the light managed to discern "two large lights/objects" that "appeared unusually bright." (Many thanks to Christopher O'Brien for these reports. And don't forget to watch for Chris's new UFO book, on sale soon.) SPHERICAL RED UFO SEEN ON LAKE ONTARIO'S NORTH SHORE On Sunday night, September 21, 1997, Canada's Ontario province was visited by a "red globe" UFO. The object was reported all along Lake Ontario's north shore, from Bowmanville to Oshawa to Peterborough to Trenton. "Numerous witnesses saw an object drifting over Ontario between Barrie and Trenton. At least one video was taken of the object. The witnesses indicated that the object was spherical, although it changed shape and became oval and diamond-shaped. It was reported as having a very reflective surface, and seen through a telescope appeared translucent and covered with a 'web-like' material." (Thanks to John Koopmans for the original report.) The UFO, described as "very large" and an estimated 100 feet (33 meters) in diameter, was seen over the cities of Peterborough, Bowmanville and Oshawa. A few hours later, on Monday, September 22, at about 3 a.m., the spherical red UFO appeared over Trenton, Ontario (population 15,465), approximately 40 miles (64 kilometers) southeast of Peterborough. Canadian Armed Forces personnel at CFB Trenton were alerted, as were the municipal police. The UFO was described as being "as large as the moon, but red in colour." A witness at the Trenton police station said, "The red object apparently moved across the sky, moving erratically from side to side." (Many thanks to Don Ledger and Errol Bruce-Knapp for this report.) SWISSAIR UFO SIGHTING CAUSES CONTROVERSY On August 9, a Swissair Boeing 747 jetliner took off from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, bound for Logan Airport in Boston, Massachusetts. This was the first leg of its transatlantic flight to Zurich. While flying at 23,000 feet in a northeasterly direction, about ten miles south of New York City's Staten Island, the Swissair 747 was suddenly bypassed by a UFO. According to Agence France Presse, the "white object" passed within 150 feet (45 meters) of the Boeing 747, flying at high speed in the opposite direction, i.e. to the southwest. "The pilot said it was 'elongated, white and without wings,' although the co-pilot described it as 'rather round.'" Swissair spokesman Erwin Schaerer said, "Neither the pilot nor the co-pilot spoke of a missile." On Friday, September 26, Pat Cariseo of the National Transportation Safety Board declared that the UFO "was probably a weather balloon." Later the same day, "the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) said the eerie object was merely a weather balloon." "FAA spokesman Jim Peters said a United Airlines pilot flew through the area about the same time and identified the National Weather Service balloon." "Peters said radar tapes as well as NWS records backed up the United pilots." (See the Boston, Mass. Herald for September 27, 1997.) STRANGE OBJECT SEEN OVER LOWER MANHATTAN On Tuesday, September 16, 1997, at 9:12 p.m., Mr. and Mrs. Ian W. were walking to their neighborhood market in the vicinity of West 23rd Street and 7th Avenue in lower Manhattan, New York City, when they saw an unusual display in the sky. "It was a beautiful warm evening here in New York City," Ian reported. "As we approached the corner...I looked ahead and saw (Boeing) 747 slowly cross New York's West Side. The reason we stared is because it was flying 'very' low, appearing very large in the sky with all its landing lights on." "Looking northwest, we stopped at the corner of West 23rd and Seventh Avenue and watched the plane slowly cross the city and bank slightly to the southeast. It was at this time that out of the corner of our eyes, directly to our right (northeast) we spied a large green object passing over the city." "This object appeared to be oval-shaped. It was flying higher than the 747 and was moving at an incredible rate of speed. We could not determine the altitude but the object looked large--about the size of a quarter held at arm's length." The couple described the object as "round...with a white center and a glowing green oval-shaped halo." It was "higher than the 747 but not 'that' much higher." (Many thanks to Jane S. Derry for forwarding this report.) UFO SPOTTED NEAR OHIO'S EAST FORK LAKE On Wednesday, September 23, 1997, at 7:45 p.m., five children playing on University Lane in Batavia, Ohio (population 1,896), approximately 10 miles (16 kilometers) east of Cincinnati spotted a UFO crossing the sky from west to east. Dovey, age 11, described the object as "reddish-orange and very bright." Her friends, Jerry and Brandon, both age 10, said "black things were sticking out of the object." At about the same time, Susan D., age 36, of Afton, Ohio was driving east on Route 32, intent on meeting her husband in nearby Williamsburg (population 1,952). As she pulled into the parking lot, "the object was seen in the open sky, visible above the trees." It "was about 100 feet (33 meters) above the tree line in the vicinity of East Fork Lake." During their drive home to Afton, Susan and her husband had the UFO in view for 10 minutes. She said it "resembled a lit candle with a glow around it," and it "disappeared from view behind trees to the south of our location, which was in the vicinity of East Fork Lake." Back in Williamsburg, Susan's daughter, Chrissy, age 17, and boyfriend Mike spied the UFO around 8:30 p.m. They "saw it for about one minute" and described it as "a big, big white-colored light. An airplane beside it would look like a big dot. It was about as big as a baseball held at arm's length and flew along at treetop level." The case is being investigated by Tri-States Advocates for Scientific Knowledge (T.A.S.K.) (Many thanks to T.A.S.K. public information director Kenneth Young for these reports.) FLAP CONTINUES NEAR LA GRANGE, GEORGIA Two UFO sightings were reported last week in La Grange, Georgia (population 24,204), located 64 miles (102 kilometers) southwest of Atlanta. According to John C. Thompson, state director of Georgia MUFON, eight teens from La Grange High School were camped out near the Troup/Heard county line the weekend of September 20 and September 21 when the incidents occurred. At 2:45 a.m. on Sunday, September 21, a 16-year-old "saw a white meteorite streak from east to west." He described it as "this brilliant white round ball had an apparent size of the moon and arched forward across a third of the sky before disappearing." Then, at 3:15 a.m., another LGHS student "Looking slightly east of due north (20 degrees)... saw a clearly-defined and perfectly-symmetrical white disc-shaped UFO hovering at 40 degrees above the horizon." The camper also noticed that the moon was in the east-southeast. There were no clouds, and the visibility was good. "After about 'five minutes,' the UFO shot off to the north-northwest (340 degrees) at a speed equivalent to 'lightning.'" The UFO was at an estimated altitude of 400 to 500 feet. Weeks earlier, on Saturday, August 30, 1997, at 10 p.m., a man working at the Dunston Mill in La Grange took his break and walked to the north end of the plant. "Overlooking the plant's pond, he saw a large light of whitish-blue in the northwest. The light had an elliptical shape" and hovered at "30 to 35 degrees above the horizon. The light did not ascend or descend." Moving slowly eastward, the UFO "slowed down to about 35 miles per hour. When it reached due north of the witness, it shot away to the west 'faster than a shooting star." The man had the UFO in view for about 10 minutes. An hour later, at 11 p.m., a couple at the Callaway "Clock Tower" on Fourth Avenue in La Grange "saw a strange and non-moving light in the southwest" sky. They described the UFO as "neon yellow in color." (See Filer's Files #38 for September 25, 1997. Many thanks to George A. Filer and John C. Thompson of MUFON for these reports.) "ANGEL HAIR" FALLS NEAR SANTA CRUZ, CALIFORNIA On Sunday, September 21, 1997, a strange fibrous substance, sometimes called "angel hair," fell on two cities east of Santa Cruz, California (population 41,483), approximately 75 miles (120 kilometers) south of San Francisco. The fall was centered around Watsonville (population 23,543), located 24 miles (38 kilometers) east of Santa Cruz. Strands were also found in nearby Fulton. "Robert Franklin, airport operator at (the) Watsonville airport, and a woman in Aptos called (the National Weather Service), asking what the translucent fibrous substance was. He said the strands were about three feet (0.9 meters) long and faced every which way." "'It's like you took a piece of wet chewing gum and stretched it with your fingers. It had strands,' Franklin said, 'Then it went straight up into the sky like a hot-air balloon.'" Sgt. Craig Wilson of the Santa Cruz Sheriff's Department "saw a few strands near downtown Santa Cruz and identified them as seed pods. 'I'm looking at it right now. I'm not a botanist. But that's what it looks like.'" "'From a meteorological standpoint, I can't explain it,' National Weather Service forecaster Bob Benjamin said. (See the San Francisco Chronicle for September 22, 1997, "Authorities Baffled By Stringy UFOs." Many thanks to Ben Margot for forwarding this news story.) (Editor's Comment: A similar case took place in Caldwell, New Jersey on August 31, 1970. See WEIRD AMERICA by Jim Brandon, E.P. Dutton, New York, NY 1978, page 139) BARCELONA ASSAULT CASE BLAMED ON SPACE ALIENS On Friday, September 19, 1997, a Spanish motorist, Carlos P.A., age 34, attacked another man, Jesus T.L., age 55, with a machete, leaving him critically injured. The altercation took place on the highway leading from La Roca del Valle to Vilanova del Valle, near Barcelona. Upon arriving at the crime scene, the Guardia Civil (Spain's police--J.T.) "found the assailant's hands and clothes covered in blood." The victim had been struck repeatedly in the neck, shoulder and thorax with a machete measuring 22 centimeters. Carlos was taken Barcelona's Modero prison and remains confined in the psychiatric unit. He reportedly told authorities that he had been ordered to stop his car and attack the other man "by a voice from Mars or perhaps a hovering flying saucer." He also mentioned contact with "space aliens" prior to the attack. (Muchas gracias a Pedro Canto para eso caso.) (Editor's Comment: Remember the bizarre self- immolation case in Beersheva, Israel two months ago? Here we go again!) MYSTERIOUS CLOUD FORMS NEAR MIR SPACE STATION On Monday, September 22, 1997, a mysterious cloud of brown gas began to form near the Russian space station Mir, shortly after the central computer again shut down and a CO2 renewal system failed. The cloud appeared outside the station and was reported to Mission Control by the Russian cosmonauts aboard Mir. Deputy Mission Control director Viktor Placov attributed the gaseous cloud to a "fuel leak." However, NASA spokesman Ed Campion told AP that "it is unlikely that the cloud is a fuel leak because (Mir's) on-board gauges did not indicate such a problem." (Many thanks to Errol Bruce-Knapp for forwarding this story.) ROUNDUP CORRIGENDA: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 36 last week described "a boat-shaped UFO" over central Italy. This was a mistranslation of the Italian word "boato," which actually means "loud noise." Witnesses actually heard a loud explosion or "sky boom" that night. (Uh-oh! Looks like a C in Italian this semester. Better get out that dictionary--J.T.) from the UFO Files... 1967: ALIENS STOP CAR IN ARGENTINA Thirty years ago, in later September 1967, two men, Carlos Peccinetti and Fernando Jose Villegas, finished their shift at a casino and drove home. As they drove down a deserted section of the Calle Neuquen, they saw "a strange-looking machine, like two inverted soup plates, hovering about three feet over a vacant lot." "At the same time, the car lights failed. A powerful light came at an angle from the machine, and, before they realized what was happening, three bald-headed dwarves came gliding towards them, and they found themselves unable to move. Two more dwarves were seen near the five-foot-high craft." Overwhelmed witha sudden fatigue, Peccinetti and Villegas lost consciousness. When they woke up, they found pinprick holes in their fingertips. The aliens then gave the men a telepathic account of why they were on Earth. The aliens had come "to study the customs of the inhabitants. They still had to learn one of our languages and were acquainting themselves with life on Earth." One of the aliens picked up a tool that "resembled an electric welding torch, and dazzling sparks came from its end." The alien then drew a space map on the door of their 1929 Chevrolet. Peccinetti recognized two of the symbols drawn as the letter A and the math symbol for 'pi." When he commented on that, an alien replied that "Mathematics is the universal language." "Shortly afterwards, the dwarves ascended effortlessly up a beam of light into the machine. There was an explosion, and the craft sped into the sky with a great halo of light." (See True Flying Saucers and UFO Quarterly No. 13 for Spring 1979, pages 74 and 75.) That's it for this week. We'll be back next Sunday with more saucer news from "the paper that goes home--UFO ROUNDUP." UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1997 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO ROUNDUP on their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of the issue in which the item first appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 New Phoenix UFOs From: xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 16:01:22 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 21:47:16 -0400 Subject: New Phoenix UFOs After watching a tape I have called the "Gulf Breeze files" by Mike Hawkins. I went outside to skywatch for a while. At about 2:30 on September 28, 1997 I saw a flashing silver object in the sky. After a few seconds of watching it, I realized I've seen and videotaped these strange objects in the past. I ran inside and a grabbed a still camera and asked my brother Rob to come out and videotape this thing. It appeared to be 5 to 10 thousand feet in the sky at a NW direction from my vantage point. I was using a Cannon T-50 with 1000 speed film. It had a 500mm telephoto lens, and a 3X adapter attached to it. After I was able to see it thru the camera, I thought this thing is silver and possibly metallic. It was flashing on and off. I call these objects "blinkers" I have no idea what they are but they blink on and off. I was able to snap 4 pictures of the object. Rob was unable to record it on video, due to the poor resolution of the color viewfinder. After I shot 4 pictures of it. I ran inside and grabbed an arm full of tripods. I came out and set them up. After we mounted the cameras the object was gone. We saw it for a total of 4 minutes. I took my gear to the otherside of my house looking for it and saw another object much farther away. It was white and over 20 miles away. Later during the day at 3:04 I saw a very, very small white object fly in very fast from the northwest. I tried to take pictures of this one but it was moving to fast. It came to a sudden stop nearly over my house at just over 1,000 ft. I thought "Hell it must want to be photographed." I grabbed the videocamera instead and tried to find and record it. I was unable to because it had stopped to close to the vicinity of the Sun. All I could see was the Sun's glare. This last object really reminded me of a video shot by John Velez a few months back. It didn't take long for this object to vanish also. If any of the first set of 4 photographs come back and one are in focus. I will post them on my website. I would also be willing to send the original negatives to photo experts like Bob Shell for review. I will admit. I know no nothing about taking 35mm pictures. I can use a videocamera very good but need advise on what film speeds to use and everything. I have taken several UFO pictures over the last 3 months, but they came back blank. I wasn't using the right film speeds and setting. If you have any advise on what to use, E-Mail me directly. Tom King, Skywatcher Arizona Skywatch director AZ Skywatch http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/skywatch/skywatch.htm OVNI Chapterhouse at http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/ufovideo.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: One Picture is Worth a Thousand Words From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 20:57:19 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 23:46:29 -0400 Subject: Re: One Picture is Worth a Thousand Words The following is a thread of conversation between Skye Turell and Barbara Becker, regarding her paper, "One Picture Is Worth A Thousand Words" and my initial response to that paper, posted today to the UFO Updates mailing list. I have pasted these together and drawn X=92s between each posting in the thread. There is some duplication due to "quoted" material=85sorry =91bout that. Barbara: Law is not CONJECTURE, I have not made it up. It doesn't matter if you believe Ed or not the LAW says that the only person who can OWN the copyright to the B&J photos is B&J and in order for someone else to own the copyright IT MUST BE TRANSFERRED legally. There is no room for interpretation. Your agreement is not necessary. Its actually kind of frightening that think it is OK not to have a formal agreement. Its the United States Copyright. Its Congressional Law. It cant be circumvented because you think its ok not to do formal paper work. Read it again and this time suspend your "belief" in Walters and GB and use you analytical side. BTW: I NEVER said there werent UFOs in GB. I said Ed Walters hoaxed the B&J photos. There is a difference. Barbara xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Barbara: Law is not CONJECTURE, I have not made it up. It doesnt matter if you believe Ed or not the LAW says that the only person who can OWN the copyright to the B&J photos is B&J and in order for someone else to own the copyright IT MUST BE TRANSFERRED legally. There is no room for interpretation. Your agreement is not necessary. Skye: You seem to have missed the entire point. If a friend gives you her fur coat, do you make up legal receipts and contracts? I don't think so. For most things, we don't bother (Thank God, the attorneys have taken over way too much of this society as it stands.) Barbara: Its actually kind of frightening that think it is OK not ta have a formal agreement. Its the United States Copyright. Its Congressional Law. It cant be circumvented because you think its ok not to do formal paper work. Skye: (See above.) Barbara: Read it again and this time suspend your "belief" in Walters and GB and use you analytical side. Skye: (My analytical side is working just fine, thanks.) Barbara: BTW: I NEVER said there werent UFOs in GB. I said Ed Walters hoaxed the B&J photos. There is a difference. Skye: And he just happened to hoax them to look just like the real ones, and to do so before there had been much opportunity for discussion and comparisons with real witnesses? Possible, but why? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Skye: You seem to have missed the entire point. If a friend gives you her fur coat, do you make up legal receipts and contracts? I don't think so. For most things, we don't bother (Thank God, the attorneys have taken over way too much of this society as it stands.) Barbara: Skye: This isnt a fur coat. Copyright law is there to protect a persons RIGHTS to a creative product. That is why the copyright vests AUTOMATICALLY without registration with the person who put it in a tangible form. That means taking a thought, if you are a writer, or image, as a photogrpaher, and putting it a form that can be perceived by another person. You OWN the product of your mind. And you must realize that because you honored MY copyright to the paper when I requested it be reproduced in its entirety. That is exactly the point I am making. YOU cant give MY paper to a friend and say "Go ahead and put this in your newsletter, IM giving you permission." You dont own it and you cant give it away. Thats the point. BTW: I NEVER said there werent UFOs in GB. I said Ed Walters hoaxed the B&J photos. There is a difference. Skye: And he just happened to hoax them to look just like the real ones, and to do so before there had been much opportunity for discussion and comparisons with real witnesses? Possible, but why? Barbara: Ed Walters was the FIRST witness. He set precedent he set the standard for observation. No one came forward BEFORE Walters. I HAVE seen photos from GB that I would accept as "real" but EACH photograph each witness story MUST be analyzed independently, and validated as such. Only then can a clear picture of events be seen. Can you tell me someone else who has taken a photogrpah identical to Ed Walters? B&J do not count. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Barbara: Skye: This isnt a fur coat. Copyright law is there to protect a persons RIGHTS to a creative product. That is why the copyright vests AUTOMATICALLY without registration with the person who put it in a tangible form. That means taking a thought, if you are a writer, or image, as a photogrpaher, and putting it a form that can be perceived by another person. You OWN the product of your mind. Skye: Not if you want to remain anonymous, as these witnesses obviously did. They didn't *want* to be protected by anything, or from anything except the mad public and press. I think under these circumstances that they probably *did* turn the photos over to Ed. As far as I'm concerned that is tantamount to giving him copyright ownership. The letter of the law is not the point here. The point (or the question is) who took the pictures and what did they do with them after that. Barbara: And you must realize that because you honored MY copyright to the paper when I requested it be reproduced in its entirety. That is exactly the point I am making. YOU cant give MY paper to a friend and say "Go ahead and put this in your newsletter, IM giving you permission." You dont own it and you cant give it away. Thats the point. Skye: You wanted to have your name attached and you wanted to protect the paper. That's a different circumstance. Barbara: BTW: I NEVER said there werent UFOs in GB. I said Ed Walters hoaxed the B&J photos. There is a difference. I HAVE seen photos from GB that I would accept as "real" but EACH photograph each witness story MUST be analyzed independently, and validated as such. Only then can a clear picture of events be seen. Skye: You can't do that in a case where people want to remain anonymous. And it sounds like most of the witnesses observed the craft the same night Ed took his pictures. Actually, this *strengthens* Ed's case, as he didn't have time to hear eyewitness accounts or see pictures and *then* duplicate the craft and hoax new pictures. If there had been sightings and pics, and then Ed revealed his photos a month or two later, then perhaps that would strengthen the feasiblity of a hoax. Barbara: Can you tell me someone else who has taken a photogrpah identical to Ed Walters? B&J do not count. Skye: To my knowledge, and I'm not an expert on GB, those particular kinds of craft have not been part of the more modern skyscape. So, no, you won't find pictures of them, except perhaps to find more old ones that haven't come to light. But that would open too many cans at this point and enough time has passed that it seems unlikely anyway. None of this proves or disproves anything. If you can find a way to criticize Bruce's analysis, or an analysis of the B&J pics, or prove that the eyewitnesses are lying -- do *something* to lead us to believe that there even is a hoax, then do it. Right now there is no substantial evidence against Ed or the eyewitnesses. There is no reason to believe that Gulf Breeze isn't exactly what it appears to be -- a hotbed of some unusual craft activity. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Barbara: Skye: This isnt a fur coat. Copyright law is there to protect a persons RIGHTS to a creative product. That is why the copyright vests AUTOMATICALLY without registration with the person who put it in a tangible form. That means taking a thought, if you are a writer, or image, as a photogrpaher, and putting it a form that can be perceived by another person. You OWN the product of your mind. Skye: Not if you want to remain anonymous, as these witnesses obviously did. They didn't *want* to be protected by anything, or from anything except the mad public and press. Barbara: It doesnt matter. The law doesnt care of you want to remain anonymous. LEGALLY whoever Bil and Jane are THEY OWN THE COPYRIGHT TO THEIR PICTURES AND WITHOUT A TRANSFER AGREEMENT...ED WALTERS CANT...UNLESS HE TOOK THE PICTURES. There is no argument here. Its just a FACT. Skye: I think under these circumstances that they probably *did* turn the photos over to Ed. As far as I'm concerned that is tantamount to giving him copyright ownership. Barbara: Thats nice but its not legal. Skye: The letter of the law is not the point here. The point (or the question is) who took the pictures and what did they do with them after that. Barbara: ANd you must realize that because you honored MY copyright to the paper when I requested it be reproduced in its entirety. That is exactly the point I am making. YOU cant give MY paper to a friend and say "Go ahead and put this in your newsletter, IM giving you permission." You dont own it and you cant give it away. Thats the point. Skye: You wanted to have your name attached and you wanted to protect the paper. That's a different circumstance. Barbara: Friad not. The law is the law. BTW: I NEVER said there werent UFOs in GB. I said Ed Walters hoaxed the B&J photos. There is a difference. I HAVE seen photos from GB that I would accept as "real" but photograph each witness story MUST be analyzed independently, and validated as such. Only then can a clear picture of events be seen. Skye: You can't do that in a case where people want to remain anonymous. And it sounds like most of the witnesses observed the craft the same night Ed took his pictures. Actually, this *strengthens* Ed's case, as he didn't have time to hear eyewitness accounts or see pictures and *then* duplicate the craft and hoax new pictures. If there had been sightings and pics, and then Ed revealed his photos a month or two later, then perhaps that would strengthen the feasiblity of a hoax. Barbara: Your argument is ridiculous. Can you tell me someone else who has taken a photogrpah identical to Ed Walters? B&J do not count. Skye: To my knowledge, and I'm not an expert on GB, those particular kinds of craft have not been part of the more modern skyscape. So, no, you won't find pictures of them, except perhaps to find more old ones that haven't come to light. But that would open too many cans at this point and enough time has passed that it seems unlikely anyway. None of this proves or disproves anything. If you can find a way to criticize Bruce's analysis, or an analysis of the B&J pics, or prove that the eyewitnesses are lying -- do *something* to lead us to believe that there even is a hoax, then do it. Right now there is no substantial evidence against Ed or the eyewitnesses. Barbara: Theres plenty of evidence. ANd no you arent an expert on Gb. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Barbara: It doesnt matter. The law doesnt care of you want to remain anonymous. LEGALLY whoever Bil and Jane are THEY OWN THE COPYRIGHT TO THEIR PICTURES AND WITHOUT A TRANSFER AGREEMENT...ED WALTERS CANT...UNLESS HE TOOK THE PICTURES. There is no argument here. Its just a FACT. Skye: OK, so in the eyes of the law the might be true. So what? That doesn't have any bearing on the validity or not of the pics. It probably didn't have any bearing on the Editor saying that Ed owned the copyright for the pics, since it would be fair to assume that he isn't as into reading detailed law docs as you are. I think under these circumstances that they probably *did* turn the photos over to Ed. As far as I'm concerned that is tantamount to giving him copyright ownership. Barbara: Thats nice but its not legal. Skye: I think people can hand their property over to anyone they see fit. To my knowledge there's no law against that. Barbara:Theres plenty of evidence. Skye: Well, if there is, you haven't presented it. Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 20:35:32 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 23:48:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous >Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:38:52 -0300 >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous >> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 06:37:41 -0700 >> From: Loy Pressley <lpressle@webwide.net> >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous >> > Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:05:09 +0100 >> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> > From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> >> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous >> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> > >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> >> > >Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous >> > >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:55:58 -0700 >Sorry but there is no need to exceed the speed of light to >come to our solar system from another one. One of the key >aspects of Einstein's work is that as one gets closer to >the speed of light, time slows down for the things moving >that fast. The amount of slowing down is dependent on how >close to the speed of light one gets. At 99.9%c it only >takes 20 months pilot time to go the 37 light years to >Zeta l or Zeta 2 Reticuli. >At 99.99% of c it only takes 6 months pilot time. One goes >out, comes back, marries one's grandaughter's best friend >etc. The slowing down has been experimentally verified. We >physicists have made particles that go much faster i.e. >99,9999% of c. One would probably would use cosmic >freeloading to save energy along with clever engineering. >Stan Friedman Hi Stanton Erm why build cars that can do more than twice the speed limit? The need for speed as the expression goes, is why engines are built that can take man further and faster. Besides which if hyperspace and/or wormholes exist why take time travelling for several years to get to the furthest stars? There are things in the universe billions of years older than our human race. They are vast, they are timeless. If they are aware of us at all we are of no more consequence to them as ants are to us. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/ http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/Index.htm Search for other documents from or mentioning: tedric | fsphys |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: One Picture is Worth a Thousand Words From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 15:40:56 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 23:15:51 -0400 Subject: Re: One Picture is Worth a Thousand Words Greetings EBK, List, and Skye: >Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 10:09:19 -0700 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> >Subject: Barbara Becker's Gulf Breeze Paper [opinion snipped for brevity] >As I read it, Barbara's making two major points: >1) The "friend of the family," Tommy Smith, is cited as saying that he was >asked to present the anonymous photos (which were published in the local >paper, and again later in Ed Walters's book), as being his own. He >refused, he said. He says that in fact the pictures were created by Ed. >Now...I don't know why Barbara is taking Tommy at his word. In fact, this >is simply a case of Tommy's word against Ed's. I can imagine quite a few >scenarios where a former "friend of the family" might get pissed off and >want to burn Ed, for reasons having nothing to do with UFOs. What better >way than to debunk (or attempt to debunk) the Gulf Breeze case and >implicate Ed in wrongdoing. Skye, it strikes this old buzzard that the issue of personalities and conflicts between them, which we may never know the true details of, is clouding the issue at hand. It is most certainly a case of Tommy's word versus Ed's word, when there is no supporting evidence in either case. But in this instance, it would seem that Tommy's statement does have some support, by virtue of what Barbara has discovered with the copyright filing irregularity. To be honest, though, I am not nearly as concerned about what Tommy or Ed have said, as I am with what Ed may have (or have not) done in respect to the photographs. >2) Most of Barbara's paper focuses on the fact that the two anonymous >pictures, which are similar to the ones taken by Ed and tend to confirm his >story, have a somewhat uneven chain of custody, let's say. The pictures >were attributed to anonymous citizens at one point in time, and are >presented that way in Ed's book, where they were reproduced. But at a >later point in time, the Editor of the local paper indicated that Ed >Walters had copyright to them. >Barbara quotes pages of copyright law, as if to prove that if Ed was >claiming copyright ownership at any point in time, then he must have >"owned" them from the very beginning. This case is extremely weak, mainly >because it assumes that people always create oceans of legal documents to >accompany all their daily transactions. Clearly this is not the case. With due respect, I simply cannot agree with the above. Point 1: The quoting of the copyright laws in no way indicates that Ed owned them from the beginning. It merely lays out, in concrete and precise terms, the legal basis for ownership of a copyright, under any circumstances, and applying to anyone. Point 2: "Oceans of legal documents" is a straw man. We are not talking about pages and pages of documentation. We are talking about a couple of pages, at best, including a transfer agreement, if Ed was not the original author. I find it strange that you do not put much stock in a very simple matter, which is LEGALLY REQUIRED in such cases. Perhaps it's just because of what I do for a living, but I have seen it demonstrated in many, many cases that if one does not follow the letter of the law in such simple matters, it is generally because one is either uneducated or naive in the matters, or because one is trying to dodge a bullet somewhere down the line. In Ed's case, I KNOW he is not uneducated or naive, so... >I can imagine quite easily a scenario where two photographic witnesses >bring forward their pictures of Gulf Breeze craft, but make it clear that >they don't want to be identified. Perhaps the Editor of the Gulf Breeze >paper knew their actual identities, but agreed to keep mum, or perhaps he >trusted Ed's word that this was the case. Again, with respect, I submit that you are merely echoing what Ed would have you believe from the scenario he sets up in the book. "Imagine" and "perhaps" are two words that stand out in the above. This is not a proveable scenario, without further support (that I doubt is forthcoming), and is still based on conjecture. >For the purposes of the Gulf Breeze paper articles, and for Ed's book, it >was important to establish that these pictures were taken by someone other >than Ed, so as to substantiate his story, so the pictures where attributed >to anonymous sources. But, at a later point, it would have been easiest to >simply hand the pictures (and all the related hassles and possibility of >being identified, which these individuals clearly didn't want) over to Ed. >Here Ed, *you* deal with this. I wash my hands... Skye, this is still conjecture and opinion, which we are not dealing with. We are dealing with the factual irregularity in the copyright filing, if we are to believe what Ed has told us about the "Bill" and "Jane" photos. >From that point onward, everyone would agree that Ed owned the pictures. >He had possession and was free to do with them as he pleased. The Editor, >knowing that Ed now had possession and "ownership," acknowledged this by >stating that Ed now had copyright. But according to the copyright filing, Ed was the "author" of the photos. This is the entire point that I found interesting about Barbara's discovery. There is no transfer agreement from any other author GIVING Ed ownership. We need to stay focused on the point Barbara is making. >I don't find this scenario all that unusual and it seems to represent a >pretty likely series of events. The fact that there are no formal >copyright agreements, or that none of the participants seem to be sticking >to the letter of copyright law is irrelevant, utterly. I cannot, in any way, agree with this. Would you have us believe that LAW is irrelevant?? Whether it is a copyright law or a drug law, it is still a LAW. I guarantee that Ed is concerned with legalities, or he would not employ an attorney. I can guarantee you that the publisher is concerned with law, or they would not have the battery of lawyers which they employ. In fact, a man who has done nothing wrong, in the case of such a minor (on the surface) issue, would have no need for legal representation. >My main problem with Barbara's paper, though, is that in attempting to >debunk this case, it fails to address the two strongest areas of evidence. >These are, a) Bruce Macabee's analysis of the photos The paper has nothing to do with Maccabee or his analysis. It is purely a legal point that raises serious questions about Ed's forthrightness. I don't understand why this defensive posture must be initiated, citing issues which are not a part of what we're talking about. >and b) the extremely >credible eyewitness accounts of real life-size anomalous craft. (If Ed >*did* create these pictures in some fashion, the amazing thing is that he >created them to look just like the *real* UFOs operating in the skies over >Gulf Breeze.) Once again, I must point out that we are NOT dealing with anything except Ed's ownership (or not) of the photographs in question. This is a clear and singular point, and has nothing to do with anything else that may have been occurring in Gulf Breeze. >Unless/until Barbara can convincingly criticize these areas, >her case is dead in the water. I respectfully disagree. I would evaluate the data at hand for what it is, and then use it ultimately for further consideration in the overall case. But until this one issue is clarified, it must be handled as a singular point. Perhaps this is not the way others do things, but it seems the only effective way of handling the issue to me. >Finally, there are the almost daily sightings of UFOs in the Gulf Breeze >area at times. There is other very interesting film and photo evidence. >There is the synchonicity of the military moving in high-powered radar >equipment (or what they said was radar equipment) at the very time these >sightings began. This case doesn't hinge on Ed Walters at all, we should >remember. Your final sentence in the paragraph above is exactly right. We are not debating Gulf Breeze, or anything that may have been, or is, happening there. The issue at hand is Ed Walters' inconsistencies in copyright. That in itself raises questions about Ed, not about Gulf Breeze. >I'll close by saying this. I saw Budd Hopkins speak at a MUFON meeting >last year and he was talking about the venomous, rapid debunking of the >"Brooklyn Bridge" case. He commented that there are some rules of thumb in >the UFO business and one of them is this: The stronger the case, the more >violent the debunking. He cited Gulf Breeze as a prime example of this >principle Skye, if I may be frank, with no attempt to admonish anyone for their beliefs, I have been looking at the subject of UFOs long enough to have figured out that not everyone is on the up and up. Call me a debunker if you wish, but you couldn't be further from the truth. I *AM* skeptical enough to realize that some people are simply in it for the money. I have no problem with making money, but I do have a problem with them making it on untruths. I applaud whistle-blowers and researchers who rid the field of those I reference, just as I applaud those who contribute material of importance and substance to the field. I met Ed Walters not long after his book came out, when he and Frances were giving a talk here in Dallas. In fact, I have his note and signature in my hard cover copy of his book. Ed seemed sincere at the time. Of course, I've been fooled by someone once before, in a face-to-face meeting, which I later discovered was just an exceptional liar. Ed's case is still open, and I look forward to seeing what the list participants come up with on this. But if I ultimately find out that Ed is pulling a fast one, I'll just stiffen the upper and lip and chalk it up to experience. I won't try to defend him, in the fear that it will upset my "beliefs" about the subject of UFOs. Suspension of "belief" is sometimes necessary, when determining factual material. Although I'm a "believer," I won't be a blind one. That's how I'm going to approach this issue. Heh, I can't say much more, folks, because of time constraints with my work, but I'll be following, with interest, any debate that is generated with this discovery. (Soap box relinquished) Glenn Joyner Dallas, Texas ******************************************** ** Visit : http://ufo-world.simplenet.com ** ** It's a SERIOUS look at UFO phenomena ** ********************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 20:28:09 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 23:50:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous >Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 08:36:27 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> >> Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous >> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 02:23:23 -0700 >This topic seems pretty far out of range of UFO Updates. Hi Jim I would beg to differ. Surely discussing how to excede the seed of light is in a way discussing how the alien craft get here. Yes? There are things in the universe billions of years older than our human race. They are vast, they are timeless. If they are aware of us at all we are of no more consequence to them as ants are to us. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/ http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/Index.htm Search for other documents from or mentioning: tedric | deardorj |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 17:49:23 -0300 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 23:53:26 -0400 Subject: Re: > Date: Thu, 25 Sep 97 15:57:03 pst > From: mdavis@ccsmtp.glycomed.COM (Davis, Michael) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Rediculous > >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> > >Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:38:52 -0300 > >Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:33:22 -0400 > >Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > >Sorry but there is no need to exceed the speed of light to > >come to our solar system from another one. One of the key > >aspects of Einstein's work is that as one gets closer to > >the speed of light, time slows down for the things moving > >that fast. The amount of slowing down is dependent on how > >close to the speed of light one gets. At 99.9%c it only > >takes 20 months pilot time to go the 37 light years to > >Zeta l or Zeta 2 Reticuli. > >At 99.99% of c it only takes 6 months pilot time. One goes > >out, comes back, marries one's grandaughter's best friend > >etc. The slowing down has been experimentally verified. We > >physicists have made particles that go much faster i.e. > >99,9999% of c. One would probably would use cosmic > >freeloading to save energy along with clever engineering. > >Stan Friedman > Well, at the risk of being a smartass, Mr. Friedman..."Duh!" > I think, ideally, we're talking about 'folding' space as Dr. Kaku says. > Taking hundreds of years to make a round trip to Zeti Reticuli isn't > really at the heart of the UFO issue here, virtually instantaneous > travel time, i.e., 'folding' and 'warping' are, right? > Michael Davis I didn't know that the question had anything to do with warping space and time. The statement had been made about having to go faster than the speed of light. That isn't true. For all we know there are several mother ships posted in nearby space.. a few light minutes away sending earth excrusion modules down here as required just as we used aircraft carriers off Vietnam to serve as a base for planes making many sorties a day.. none coming from the US. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Agence France-Presse: Swissair Plane In UFO From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 20:15:55 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 00:57:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Agence France-Presse: Swissair Plane In UFO > Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 06:53:11 +0200 (MET DST) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Agence France-Presse: Swissair Plane In UFO > >Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 12:47:45 +0100 > >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Agence France-Presse: Swissair Plane In UFO > >> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 02:33:33 -0700 > >> From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) > >> To: Updates@globalserve.net > >> Subject: Re: Agence France-Presse: Swissair Plane In UFO > >> > From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) > >> > Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 01:26:10 +0200 > >> > Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:07:41 -0400 > >> > Subject: Agence France-Presse: Swissair Plane In UFO > >> > Swissair plane in UFO near-miss off New York > >> > Agence France-Presse > >> > Fri, Sep 26 1997 > >> > GENEVA, Sept 26 (AFP) - US authorities have launched an inquiry into an > >> > unidentified flying object that whizzed 50 metres (yards) past a > >> > Swissair jet near New York last month, Swissair said Friday. > >Snipped............ > >> This is curious. I wonder if it's policy for American agencies such as > >>the FAA, and NTSB to come up with mundane explanations for strange > >>objects that are seen in the sky when no immediate explanation is > >>available. It's certainly concievable that such a policy might exist > >>with absolutely no thought given to UFOs or some sinister desire to to > >>mislead the public about them. Snipped........ > >> Jared. > >Hello Jared, Stig and List > >I think that we are giving the NSTB validity that it does not deserve. > >Pat Cariseo's remarks were probably ellicited {wrongly} by a reporter > >when the Agence France-Presse reporter for some unknown reason called > >the NSTB for some explanation of the sighting. Why the NSTB? Who the > >hell are they? The NSTB investigates airplane crashes, it's that simple. > >They have no expertise in the UFO field and therefore Cariseo's remarks > >should be discounted out of hand. Snipped.............. > >It would be interesting to know the name of the original reporter and > >find out why he chose of all places to contact the NSTB for a quote on a > >near miss by a UFO. It makes as much sense as calling a rep at the say > >the Academy of Arts and Sciences in Hollywood and asking for their > >opinion. > >Regards, > >Don Ledger > Don, > The NTSB was one of the investigative bodies involved in the > TWA 800 crash. The TWA aircraft contained many French citizens > and the name of the NTSB has been all over the news in France > last year and this year. > The French reporter (of AFP) must have thought the NTSB > was one of the appropriate entities to call for a comment on > this near-miss. Maybe he still had its telephone number in his > notebook. > He was apparently wrong, but people who are not experts on > airline regulations, especially non-US citizens, could easily > think that an organization that has the word 'Safety' in its name > would be investigating near-misses. Hello Henny, That's the thought that's been rattling around in my mind since I first read the press release. The reason I jump on these things is to try and nip some of the misconceptions re aviation that the general public has and the movie industry perpetuates. Since we are dealing with a phenomenon that is mostly aerial in content it doesn't do anyone any good to run off half cocked, making assumptions about what can and cannot be done in controlled airspace, particularly in peacetime. If you know for instance that it is a crime to release a flare from an aircraft - whether it's military or civilian - in controlled airspace then you can assume that over Pheonix if a brilliant light was observed by an airline pilot climbing out of Pheonix [I apologize for not knowing its real name] then no one can come along and tell you that the Air Force was doing exercises in their zone because the next thing that would happen is a federal marshall will come along and slap the cuffs on them for violating FAA air regulations, military or no military. It's as simple as that. You know who the experts are in aerial identification in the flying business? That's right...it's the pilots not some desk bound boob pushing paper at the NSTB. After one of those pilots rams his aircraft into the side of a mountain, swamp, ocean etc. the experts on finding out why and how are the National Transportation Safty Board. I have profound respect for these working stiffs who have to sort through the remains of an aircraft to try and determine what happened. I 've had the opportunity on two separate occassions to watch these people at work and they make Sherlock Holmes look like a rank amateur. Like you said Henny, the reporter probably figured that the NSTB had all of the answers. Regards, Don Ledger Search for other documents from or mentioning: dledger | hvdp | jared |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 29 ACC: Wolf's Identity Unravelled? From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 01:29:29 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 01:14:34 -0400 Subject: ACC: Wolf's Identity Unravelled? First of all I want to thank Jared for his reply to my "ACC: Further Revelations" post, regarding the Roswell-Bell claims that were put forward in a message to the bulletin board of "UFO's, Political Scams, & Conspiracies". The sender was a "mailbox@ix.netcom.com", and Jared pointed out that this address is the same that Bob Wolf has used as a spokesman for ACC. One thing Jared didn't mention is how strange it is, that Ed Wang (acsa@ix.netcom.com) - cf. my post "ACC: Surprising New Development" - and Bob Wolf (mailbox@ix.netcom.com) sent e-mails only a couple of days apart claiming the same kind of inside information regarding videophone technology burrowed from a Roswell craft. Immediately after ACC had set up its Roswell page up, which does not contain this information. But of course, as my "ACC: Further Revelations" e-mail implied, the obvious explanation is, that they are identical or both acted as spokespersons for American Computer Computer. For those, who haven't followed the case, the URL of ACC's Roswell page is http://www.American-Computer.com/roswell.htm You're invited to send comments and the receiver is: acsa@ix.netcom.com. I thought of checking Wolf=B4s e-mail address myself, but have been too busy following another very unravelling lead. But first Jared's e-mail: >updates@globalserve.net,Internet writes: >Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 09:11:30 -0700 >From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, >Jared) >To: Updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: ACC: Further Revelations >> From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 03:26:14 +0200 >> Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 05:07:28 -0400 >> Subject: ACC: Further Revelations >> Did the Government break up the Bell System because it was >>afraid of AT&T - that it might have technology that would >>enable it to take over the United States, penetrate privacy and >>overthrow the Constitution? >> News at 11... >> - TM >> Mule <mailbox@ix.netcom.com> >>San Fransisco, CA USA - Tuesday, July 15, 1997 at >>21:07:30 (PDT) >> *** >> "Mule" is a link to ACC's site. >> Note that the part after "@" in the e-mail address is identical to >>the part after "@" in the e-mail address of the sender of the >>July 18 message, Ed Wang and the receiver of comments on >>ACC's Roswell page - acsa@ix.netcom.com. As ACC has its >>own server, several in fact, I think it is likely that the first >>part of the July 15 e-mail address, "mailbox", refers to a mailbox >>belonging to either ACSA, the American Computer Scientists >>Association, of which Jack Shulman, ACC's >> Stig >Stig, >An FYI >mailbox@ix.netcom.com is the e-mail address for Bob Wolf. At >the time Bob was corresponding with me back when this whole >mess started, that was the e-mail address he was using and I >know of no other address for this man nor have I been aware >that mail sent to this >address was reaching anyone other than >he. >Jared. Now watch this! Yesterday a link to the page I have been instrumental in setting up on the site of "Sightings On The Radio" http://www.sightings.com/ufo/roswellmetal.htm was added to Ufomind's Corso page http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/c/corso/ The link looks like this: ***' (Scientists Manufacture Roswell-like Material) - "Further Confirmation Of Corso's Revelations" - Research report - By (Robert Wolf) - <gc 9/27 #32> NEW! *** The brackets refer to other links, so I clicked on "Robert Wolf", a well-known person on the UFO scene, who, according to Campbell, is identical with "Bob Wolf", the mystical figure, who on numerous occasions has acted as an intermediary of American Computer Company's Roswell-Bell claims. Anyhow I reached one of Ufomind's pages http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/w/wolfr/ and found some very interesting pieces of information, first of all that this Robert Wolf appears under various aliases, but seems to be identical to an Italian named Robert Frances Franzone. *** Unofficial Link Page For Robert Wolf Their Home Page - Visit Here First Wolf Lodge / Mistyc House Role: Native American mystical & E.T. experiences File Code: wolfr =BFClass: ufo Aliases: Robert Ghost Wolf; Robert Franzone; Robert Parry; Robert Wolfe Residence: Spokane, WA US UFO Role: Credentials Disputed UFO Topic: Native American ET Experiences Media: Art Bell Guests [ Edit Any Information Above ] =B0Web Search for "Robert Wolf UFO" =B0Web Search for "Robert Wolf" =B0Web Search for "Robert Ghost Wolf" =B0Web Search for "Robert Franzone" =B0Web Search for "Robert Parry" =B0Web Search for "Robert Wolfe" [If you find any interesting documents in the searches above, please add them to the General Links section below.] We rely on you to add interesting new links!General LinksLinks not otherwise classified =B0Wolf Lodge / Mistyc House - Wolf's site. - <gc 8/6 #1> =B0Domain Query for Owner - Contact info. - Source: Internic (Organization) - <gc 8/6 #1.1> =B0Ancient Sightings - "Though few of us realize it, the United States is filled with pyramids, hieroglyphs, petroglyphs, artifacts and sacred grounds to rival Egypt." - Source: Internic (Organization) - <gc 8/6 #1.2> =B0Robert Ghost Wolf: Italian?+ - Message claiming Wolf is fraud. - Message - Expos=E9 - By Don Allen - Published: 8/23 - Source: Beckjord's Email List (Mailing List) - <rsk/gc 8/29 9/3 #2> =B6I don't [know] about a "Henry Franzoni" but one Robert Frances Franzone is who "Robert Ghost Wolf" is. He has also gone by the names of Robert Parry, Bobby Wolfe and Robert Wolfe. He isn't a Native American either; he's Italian. "Robert Ghost Wolf" is what you call a phony-baloney plastic injun, and yes he has been on Art Bell a few times. =B0Speaker Bios from 1997 Prophets Conference in Phoenix (16 lines) - <auto-ml 9/8 #3> +indicates items stored on this server. # (snip) 68 visits to this page since 8/6/97. 1 outside pages link to this one. Send us corrections using this Feedback Form or email webmaster@ufomind.com This page: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/w/wolfr/ =BF(9/28/97 15:17) * *** ***** ******* =BF*********=BF Created: 8/6/97 *** I have followed variuos links to the "Wolf Lodge" and "Mistyc Lounge" (sic!), but didn't find the e-mail address that "Bob Wolf" has given in his ACC posts - mailbox@ix.netcom.com - anywhere. It should be added, however, that "Robert Wolfe" was present at the Roswell anniversary as the ensuing page shows: http://www.wolflodge.org/roswell/ *** The Conspiracy Ends Here! Presented by The Roswell Seven 9:00 - 10:00 AM UFO Panel Speakers: Robert Ghost Wolf, Chelsea Flor, Michael Ash, Al Bielek, David Adair, Jimmy Langkop, Tricia McCannon MC: Barbara Reen, Conference Director 9:00 -10:00=BF UFO Panel 10:00 -11:00 Michael Ash - Intelligence Agent =BF "The Montauk Project - The Final Disclosure" 11:00 -12:00=BF Chelsea Flor - Esoteric Teacher =BF "Global Initiation to Interdimensional Realities" 12:00 - 1:30=BF Lunch 1:30 - 2:30=BF Al Bielek - Time Traveler =BF "The Philadelphia Experiment" 2:30 - 3:30=BF Jimmy Langkop - Practical Mystic / Visionary "UFO's and the Coming 4th Dimension" 3:30 - 4:30=BF Tricia McCannon - Historian / Seer / Author "The Extraterrestrial Origins of Life on Planet Earth" 4:30 - 5:30=BF David Adair - Rocket Scientist "Recent Disclosures of the US Senate Hearings on UFO's" 5:30 - 6:30=BF Robert Ghost Wolf - Shaman / Teacher / Author "Prophecies and the Galactic Labyrinth" Individual Session:=BF $10 Half Day (3 sessions) $25 All Day:=BF $40 The Roswell Inn Ballroom 1815 North Main Street Roswell, NM For Information: (509)465-1606 E-Mail: Roswellseven@usa.net Web Site http://www.wolflodge.org/roswell/ | TOC | Bulletin Board | Speakers' Bios | Main Schedule | COPYRIGHT =A9 Wolf Lodge 1997 Search for other documents from or mentioning: stig_agermose | mailbox
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Re: ACC: Surprising New Development From: Wes Thomas <west@sonic.net> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 15:54:36 +0900 Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 01:25:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Re: ACC: Surprising New Development At <http://www.american-computer.com/index1.shtml> there was a link to American Computer Scientists Association (ACSA) <http://www.acsa2000.net/labfaq.html>, a nonprofit organization affiliated with American Computer (public relations is handled by American Computer). By a curious coincidence, ACSA <http://www.acsa2000.net/1996b2.html> named American Computer founder Jack Shulman "Computer Scientist of the Year: 1994." Scanning for Jack Shulman, we get: http://www.kasparov.com/ This appears to be a chess site put up by "E4," with an article written by an anonymous "investigative journalist" with no listed publication credentials who "reveals" (no convincing evidence provided) that American Computer has a better chess computer than IBM. Looking at the HTML source to see where the email is going, I found (you guessed it): the pseudonymous "nicolai_tesla@MSN.COM", site admin for American Computer Company (this page has been changed; it now sends mail using a form). Now as for the mysterious "Ed Wang" <acsa@ix.netcom.com>: "acsa@ix.netcom.com" turns out to be the email address your message is forwarded to when you send a message in response to the THE ROSWELL INCIDENT page <http://www.american-computer.com/roswell.htm> (you have to look at the HTML source to see that). So why is a "journalist" (also self-described as a "consumer advocate") acting on the part of the company he is investigating? And perhaps ACC can explain this bizarre, threatening message sent to several people on the ISO list, which states "There is NO Ed Wang" and implies his posts were part of some sort of Internet psychology experiment: From: acsa@ix.netcom.com Subject: Fwd: Re: You can't repress the Truth forever... But we can read your EMAIL, even if you encrypt it! Amazing. And it doesn't occur to you that your EMAIL is far from private, its copied and read by every server in the world through which you send it? Had it occured to anyone that the average SMTP server has a program on it to catch, and save, all email from particular IDs passing through it's routers? Amazing. I think all of you should try to consider yourselves to be in a very large room with a whole lot of people watching you with curiosity, while, at that very same time, the lot of you think, no, you ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE you are engaging in a private List Serve correspondence Forum with an audience of Targetted recipients. People! People! Your audience is far larger than that! There are huge numbers of us out here listening to everything you say. You are like 'Soap Opera Shakespeare' to us! Consider how many are watching you: ignoring facts, ignoring the truth, and seeing only the tiny, teensy, little perspective of "I'm right, you're wrong" and "No, we're right, and Ed Wang's wrong", and 'Let's get that guy, cause he was MEAN to Dan', and all the little side palaver we read every day as you people operate in the tiny little vacuum of a mind which believes that only you can read the correspondences between you, believing them private when, in fact, they are painfully public! And then there's that ridiculous little sham: the IRC Chat Room, we can sit in and sample and listen and watch, and we don't even have to lurk, WE RUN the chat rooms and can read every word you send, every porn image you download, every credit card you buy something with, every time you log in at work when you shouldn't, every time you think you've gotten away with something at an 'Ed Wang's expense. Wrong! Guess again, people. Let UNIX Ring! Timesharing your private world with anyone with an Operator's ID, or a Trusted Key to a NetServer or a Root PWD! Guess what: There is NO Ed Wang. Don't bother going all over the world, searching for Ed Wangs in far off places like New Jersey, California, China. He doesn't EXIST. He's a figament of "the Big Guy's" imagination. We made him up so we could post our opinion about the ACC website on your List Engine to see how you and others responded to it. It's just one of those things you do to see if you can tell what response one can get out of a stimulus. You know, you all are like 'rats in a maze'. The song's right, by the way. Who are we? None of your business, you wouldn't understand, anyway. It'd be way over your heads. We've always been here - you only recently joined the Internet- its been around for a very, very long time. Remember - we can read your EMAIL even if you don't send it to us, cause it passes through our Servers... Bye for now, Kids. Oh, yeah, by the way: we think ACC's story is true, and that it was planted on their website to see if anyone out there can prove it's true, by 'you know who!' And, we think one of you knew that, so he started a flame war on it, because he's afraid what might happen to his list, if he's perceived as friendly to the subject matter. Ciao, kiddies. Keep playing, the Bell will sound very soon, and you can all go home, school will soon be out! Better prey that the boogie man isn't outside, just down around the next corner, waiting for you to come biking by, and SMASH, BAM, BOOM... Game Over! Such is the nature of your lives. [END OF FORWARD FROM acsa@ix.netcom.com] Is "Bob Wolf" also an experiment? And who is the mysterious "consultant" and has a trusted investigator actually met with him personally and verified his background? What's amazing to me about the bizarre ACC story is why anybody takes an anonymous "consultant" and posts from an unknown person seriously. It's a revealing commentary on gullibility and lack of critical thinking in the UFO community. - Wes Thomas Search for other documents from or mentioning: west | nicolai_tesla |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 01:22:57 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 02:37:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings >Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 16:38:04 -0700 >From: Ted Viens <drtedv@smart1.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings >> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:56:43 -0700 >> From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings >> > Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:36:44 -0500 >> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Why I haven't investigated John's sightings Hi Ted, hi All, >Every thing snipped for the sake of our collective sanity... If you >don't know what this thread is about, spare yourself and move on to the >next post... >Ed, face it, your initial "pixel" accusation was baseless, dishonest, >ignorant, and derisive. John and company responded in an expected way >with additional information that would be useful in further investigation >of his claims. You reply by writing endless posts full of further >insults yet offering no meaningful information. Please, spare us. Thank you Ted. Needed saying. >John's pictures tend to corroborate his observations and tell us very >little more about what they might be. What more can be expected? Just by way of an update, the (original) 8mm videotape that I shot on July 26th, 1997 is winging it's way to Japan and to Chris Penrose. Chris is at a University there and hopefully they will be able to conduct a more in depth analysis of the object. We can only hope anyway. More as I get it. John Velez, Alien Press Photographer John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: New Phoenix UFOs From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 01:37:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 02:40:15 -0400 Subject: Re: New Phoenix UFOs >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) >Subject: New Phoenix UFOs >Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 16:01:22 EST >After watching a tape I have called the "Gulf Breeze files" by >Mike Hawkins. I went outside to skywatch for a while. > >At about 2:30 on September 28, 1997 I saw a flashing silver >object in the sky. After a few seconds of watching it, I realized >I've seen and videotaped these strange objects in the past. I ran >inside and a grabbed a still camera and asked my brother Rob to >come out and videotape this thing. > >It appeared to be 5 to 10 thousand feet in the sky at a NW >direction from my vantage point. I was using a Cannon T-50 with >1000 speed film. It had a 500mm telephoto lens, and a 3X adapter >attached to it. After I was able to see it thru the camera, I >thought this thing is silver and possibly metallic. It was >flashing on and off. I call these objects "blinkers" I have no >idea what they are but they blink on and off. A flasher! that's what's on the video that I sent to Errol and Chris Penrose and a few others. the freaking thing seems to appear and disappear, flashing on and off. Yes, very shiny silver metallic looking jobs. I thought that the one I saw looked kind of like a flattened (mirror finished) bell, or like a tall silver hamburger bun. >Later during the day at 3:04 I saw a very, very small white >object fly in very fast from the northwest. I tried to take >pictures of this one but it was moving to fast. It came to a >sudden stop nearly over my house at just over 1,000 ft. I thought >"Hell it must want to be photographed." I grabbed the videocamera >instead and tried to find and record it. I was unable to because >it had stopped to close to the vicinity of the Sun. All I could >see was the Sun's glare. This last object really reminded me of a >video shot by John Velez a few months back. It didn't take long >for this object to vanish also. You're talking about that white disc right? I'll send you a copy of the new one Tom (the 'flasher') asap. I'm busy trying to get the new website created and up, be patient I won't forget you. Tommy, if anything comes out on the photos that you took, could you please post a copy here to the list so I (all of us) can check it out? >I will admit. I know no nothing about taking 35mm pictures. I can >use a videocamera very good but need advise on what film speeds >to use and everything. I have taken several UFO pictures over the >last 3 months, but they came back blank. I wasn't using the right >film speeds and setting. If you have any advise on what to use, >E-Mail me directly. Zap an e-mail to Bob Shell Tom. He's a good guy and I'm sure he'll be happy to lend you a little professional advice. Try him. Your fellow unasked regular UFO witness, John Velez John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 23:26:34 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 02:43:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 20:28:09 +0100 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > >Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 08:36:27 -0700 (PDT) > >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >> From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > >> Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > >> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 02:23:23 -0700 > >This topic seems pretty far out of range of UFO Updates. > Hi Jim > I would beg to differ. > Surely discussing how to excede the seed of light is in a way discussing > how the alien craft get here. Yes? Hi Sean, I do happen to agree that the aliens do, in effect anyway, greatly exceed the speed of light in getting here from far out. But I think that how they do it is probably so far ahead of our present understanding that even back-engineering of a healthy UFO would not reveal the secret. So I feel that there's no point in our wasting time trying to discuss how. But if Corso and others are right, we (or rather those directly involved) have been able to make certain technical advances through similar back engineering, and so perhaps more can be done that way than I would have guessed. Jim Deardorff Search for other documents from or mentioning: deardorj | tedric |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: One Picture is Worth a Thousand Words From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 97 20:17:00 Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 02:45:30 -0400 Subject: Re: One Picture is Worth a Thousand Words >From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] >Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:36:17 -0500 >To: ufo updates <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: 'The Gulf Breeze Paper' >ONE PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS >Copyright 1997 Barbara Becker >The first photographs seemingly corroborating >Walters' photos were submitted to the Sentinel on >December 3, 1987, accompanied by a letter by an >anonymous person, later to be called, "Jane". A second >batch of nine photographs was submitted to the >Sentinel on December 23, 1987 by a person using the >pseudonym of "Believer Bill". One of the nine photos, >along with a letter from Bill, was printed in the Sentinel >on December 24. These are photos 39 and 40 in the >book. What do they have to do with Ed Walters other >than they prove his story? Well, actually they dispute >his story. Barbara, I have not seen how you logic proved that he did anything wrong. Maybe he did take the Believer Bill and Jane photos... does it really mean that the photos are a hoax? I don't think so... Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 08:35:12 -0300 Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 21:03:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 20:35:32 +0100 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > >Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:38:52 -0300 > >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > >> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 06:37:41 -0700 > >> From: Loy Pressley <lpressle@webwide.net> > >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > >> > Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:05:09 +0100 > >> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >> > From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> > >> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > >> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >> > >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > >> > >Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous > >> > >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:55:58 -0700 > >Sorry but there is no need to exceed the speed of light to > >come to our solar system from another one. One of the key > >aspects of Einstein's work is that as one gets closer to > >the speed of light, time slows down for the things moving > >that fast. The amount of slowing down is dependent on how > >close to the speed of light one gets. At 99.9%c it only > >takes 20 months pilot time to go the 37 light years to > >Zeta l or Zeta 2 Reticuli. > >At 99.99% of c it only takes 6 months pilot time. One goes > >out, comes back, marries one's grandaughter's best friend > >etc. The slowing down has been experimentally verified. We > >physicists have made particles that go much faster i.e. > >99,9999% of c. One would probably would use cosmic > >freeloading to save energy along with clever engineering. > >Stan Friedman > Hi Stanton > Erm why build cars that can do more than twice the speed limit? > The need for speed as the expression goes, is why engines are built that > can take man further and faster. > Besides which if hyperspace and/or wormholes exist why take time > travelling for several years to get to the furthest stars? The point is that trips to NEARBY stars are feasible with reasonable round trip times with what we already know. Remember Friedman's law "Technological progress comes from doing things differently in an unpredictable way. The technological future is NOT an extrapolation of the past." I have no concern with the furthest stars but a lot with the local neighborhood. There are 46 sunlike stars within 54 light years. Speeds greater than c are NOT required.. which is not too say we won't be using wormholes, etc. Stan Friedman Search for other documents from or mentioning: fsphys | tedric |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Claims and Reality From: Robert Herloski <herloski@scan.mc.xerox.com> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 06:27:39 PDT Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 21:18:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Claims and Reality >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 01:05:20 +0200 (MET DST) >Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:06:06 -0400 >Subject: Re: Transistor from Roswell: Claims and Reality >A brief history of the transistor, the integrated circuit and the >microchip >Dec. 16, 1947 - Shockley, Bardeen and others announce the first >recognition of the transistor effect with a germanium transistor. >Dec. 23, 1947 - The inventors present their findings to top >management. >July 1, 1948 - The New York Times announces the discovery of the >transistor in its "News of Radio" section. >1951 - William Shockley, Stanly Morgan, Morgan Sparks and >Gordon Teal develop the p-n junction transistor. Western Electric >starts commercial production of transistors. >1953 - First silicon transistor In the original Phys. Rev. article, Bardeen and Brattain state (in a footnote) that the transistor effect has been found in both silicon and germanium: Excerpt from: Bardeen and Brattain, Phys. Rev. 74, 230 (1948). The Transistor, a Semi-Conductor Triode J. Bardeen and W.H. Brattain June 25, 1948 A three-element electronic device which utilizes a newly discovered principle involving a semiconductor as the basic element is described. It may be employed as an amplifier, oscillator, and for other purposes for which vacuum tubes are ordinarily used. The device consists of three electrodes placed on a block of germanium (1) as shown schematically in Fig. 1.... (1) While the effect has been found with both silicon and germanium, we describe only the use of the latter. -- Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 29 Dissertation on UFO Abductees Now Available From: Patricia Mason <pmason@ee.net> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 08:52:03 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 21:14:37 -0400 Subject: Dissertation on UFO Abductees Now Available Hello, A good friend of mine just received her Ph.D. She did her dissertation on UFO abductees. It's a fascinating study and I highly recommend it for those of you who are interested. It is available from UMI Dissertation Services. I have listed the pertinent information below. UMI Dissertation Services has a web site at: http://www.umi.com/hp/Support/DServices/ Best wishes, Pat \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Publication number: AAT 9729682 Title: 'ALIEN ABDUCTEES'' REPORTS OF WORLDVIEW RECONSTRUCTION (ASSUMPTIVE WORLD THEORY, COPING) Author: KOPOLOW, MINDY SUE School: ANTIOCH UNIVERSITY/NEW ENGLAND GRADUATE SCHOOL Degree: PSYD Date: 1997 Source: DAI-B 58/04, p. 2180, Oct 1997 Pages: 240 Subject: PSYCHOLOGY, SOCIAL (0451); PSYCHOLOGY, COGNITIVE (0633) Abstract: A social-cognitive trauma theory referred to as assumptive world theory (Janoff-Bulman, 1992) was utilized as a way of understanding how people who report being abducted by aliens (i.e., abductees) cope with their ordeals in the context of a society which tends not to believe their abduction accounts. According to assumptive world theory, individuals generally maintain benign assumptions about themselves and the world. However, traumata shatter these assumptions, and it is through talking, meaning-making, and social supports that trauma survivors are able to assimilate the new traumatic information and rebuild a positive worldview. Fourteen abductees were interviewed about their coping strategies and worldview reformulation in regard to their perceived abductions. Results indicated that while assumptive world theory's coping domains enabled abductee participants to adapt to their circumstances, the anomalous quality of abductions made coping difficult. [[[[[[[[[[[[ UNUSUAL RESEARCH ]]]]]]]]]]]]] http://users1.ee.net/pmason/index.html [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 29 ACC: Final Proof That Wolf's E-Mail Address From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 16:38:41 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 21:22:11 -0400 Subject: ACC: Final Proof That Wolf's E-Mail Address HotBot result for searching the Web for the exact phrase mailbox@ix.netcom.com It should be noticed that the SNELLING page does not have any link to this e-mail address. Only the text and HotBot's header refers to it. *** Returned 22 matches. Click here for the Lexus LS400 Page Counts:=BFmailbox:=BF175386, ix:=BF252330, netcom:=BF214897,= com:=BF15432295 =BF1=BF-=BF10 1. SNELLING Personnel Services99%SNELLING=AE Personnel Services The Right People For the Job OFFICE LOCATED AT: 47 RIVER ROAD, SUMMIT N.J. 07901 TEL: (908) 273-6500 FAX: (908) 232-4379 our e-mail: mailbox@ix.netcom.com This page looks better if browsed using MSIE 3.0+ or... http://www.compamerica.com/snelling/, 2914 bytes, 07Aug97 (snip) *** And this is the page: *** SNELLING=AE Personnel Services The Right People For the Job=BF OFFICE LOCATED AT: 47 RIVER ROAD, SUMMIT N.J. 07901 TEL: (908) 273-6500 FAX: (908) 232-4379 our e-mail: mailbox@ix.netcom.com This page looks better if browsed using MSIE 3.0+ or Netscape 4.0+ CAREER & TEMPORARY SERVICES: Administrative Secretarial Word Processors Data Entry Receptionists Clerical Customer Services Legal Secretaries LEAVE THE OFFICE WORK TO US. You have a business to take care of. The last thing you should have to worry about is staffing problems. The Snelling Advantage. For more than four decades, Snelling has found top office personnel for businesses of all types and sizes ... so we understand the specific needs of your company. And, as your staffing partners, we realize that our success depends on your success. That's why we go to great lengths to find just the right people for your office. The Full-service staffing solution. Secretaries, Bookkeepers, Legal and Executive Secretaries, Administrative Assistants, Word Processors, Typists, Receptionists, Clerks, and more. Full-time, temporary, or temp-to-hire... we work with you to find the right fit. Call us today. (c) 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997 Snelling and Snelling, Inc. (#1427)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: New Phoenix UFO From: Chris Penrose <penrose@cmlab.sfc.keio.ac.jp> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 23:10:14 +0900 (GMT+0900) Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 21:27:32 -0400 Subject: Re: New Phoenix UFO To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> From: xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) Subject: New Phoenix UFOs Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 16:01:22 EST >I will admit. I know no nothing about taking 35mm pictures. I can >use a videocamera very good but need advise on what film speeds >to use and everything. I have taken several UFO pictures over the >last 3 months, but they came back blank. I wasn't using the right >film speeds and setting. If you have any advise on what to use, >E-Mail me directly. I've decided to post to the list as others may want to use and/or critique this information. To use a camera effectively, you essentially have to juggle three variables, two of which you have effective control over when taking pictures: lens aperture, shutter speed, and the commit to before you shoot, film speed. Aperture is crucial and it is often overlooked. The smaller the aperature, the less light is available for the picture, but at the same time, the greater the depth of focus. The depth of focus effect is more relevant for close up photography, but the detail available for distant, particularly moving, objects is greater with smaller aperatures. Maximize your shutter speed as much as possible. Your hands move, and with telephoto lenses you need the fastest shutter speed you can manage. Aperature controls which shutter speed is appropriate. Most so-called manual cameras have light meters that will provide an opinion as to what the appropriate shutter timing should be given the aperature setting and light conditions. They are a little beyond the scope of what I can tell you now, but it is important to realize that these light meters have limitations. I recommend getting a good book on photography and reading up on the process. I have done this myself: it is quite fun and educational to take a short photography course at a look college or adult school. Make sure to take one that offers darkroom training and access. Very useful. In my opinion, use the slowest film that the lens and light conditions allow. My favorite film is Kodak 100 ASA Gold. It enlarges extremely well. These slower films provide better detail. But ASA 100 simply won't work with a 3x and a 500mm lens. You can consider shooting black and white if you can find an excellent developing service. Black and white film has greater resolution than color at the same speed. There are also extremely fast black and white films available (3200). Color may be relevant, to the object though, and it is much easier to find high quality color developing. Well, looking at my recommendations, you should see some paradoxes. You want to have the smallest aperature possible, but at the same time, you want to have the highest shutter speed available. As aperature diminshes, so does the maximum shutter speed. Ideal film speed hurts shutter speed too, as you want the slowest available film. See if you can get high shutter settings (1/500-1/1000) with 400 ASA film using your 500mm and 3x combo. I don't like 400 ASA very much, but I love it in comparison to 1000 ASA. It is a good compromise film It is also my forgiving to load. Which reminds me, if you use 1000 ASA, keep it in the refrigerator and load it in the darkest place possible. It is good to do this no matter what film you use. I have had loading exposure with 100 ASA. With an Arizona sun, this is quite a possibility. For better picture taking potential, there is an easy, but expensive solution. If you have the money, go for a large or medium format camera. If I was in a UFO hotspot, this would be the first purchase that I would make, given that I had the money. 35mm is fair, but if you are truly looking to capture detailed photographs of moving aerial objects with a zoom lens, you can consider a bigger camera. The larger format cameras have a much bigger negative which would allow you to use higher film speeds and maintain resolution. I am surprised that UFOlogists don't have medium format Mamiyas decked with 1000mm zoom lenses permanently dangling from their necks. A tripod in a knapsack would help too :) Your budget is a concern. I walk by these cameras everyday on the way to work, but I can't afford them. The camera is only part of the price: film and developing for non-consumer film products is takai (expensive!). Also, before investing in medium format or large, you should do a lot of 35mm practice. If you can't go larger format, look into buying a high quality zoom with an ultra wide aperature. Though wide aperatures tend to blur, these lenses will let you shoot under a wider range of conditions. Using your 3x on top of your 500mm lens makes your effective aperature super tiny. Film speed (and loss of detail) will have to compensate for its use. 500mm is a fair zoom already, though you yourself can utlilize the effects of the 3x during a sighting, you really don't gain any photographic detail by using it as film speed must compensate. Your 500mm may be very nice also. I don't know. What is its widest aperature at 500mm? There is another nifty trick, which doesn't work very well with color film, but it works fairly well with black and white: "pushing". You can overexpose or underexpose film, an F-stop (a single aperature setting) or two. If you do this, you must consider this for the entire roll of film that you are using. Stupid (my bias) modern cameras with their universally clumsy automatic features can make this difficult. When you get your film developed, you tell the developer that it was pushed +/- some F-stop value. This technique is often used to compensate for light conditions that don't quite match your available film. One more thing for sighting magnets like Tom and John Velez. John doesn't tend to have night or dusk sightings but Tom (if memory serves correctly) was a Phoenix Lights witness. Anyway, (I hope I don't inspire a flood of hoaxes in this different medium) night sightings may be an excellent candidate for INFRARED film. This film can pick up thermal radiation or heat, and saucer folklore has ample evidence suggesting that these visitors are hot! Infrared film is not difficult to obtain, but it is difficult to use. It must be loaded quickly in an extremely dark environment. It can't sit in your camera long either. Perhaps the die hard sky watcher can dedicate a camera to infrared, and replace the film, used or not, daily. Unfortunately, normal light meters do not work with it. Perhaps hand held infrared meters exist. If they do, every UFOlogist should have one :) Chris Penrose penrose@sfc.keio.ac.jp
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: ACC: Wolf's Identity Unravelled? From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 22:02:00 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 21:56:08 -0400 Subject: Re: ACC: Wolf's Identity Unravelled? >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 01:29:29 +0200 >Subject: Wolf's Identity Unravelled? Almost everything snipped. Stig, thanks a lot for your further research. Personally I was already aware that there was a Bob Wolf who used aliases and that he seemed to be a shaman. Two comments about Bob Wolf: 1. I reviewed the claims as found on the Area 51/UFOmind website that Bob Wolf's credentials are disputed. See: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/w/wolfr/ Personally I did not think this was a big deal. The only reasons that Glenn Campbell, creator of Ufomind, has included Wolf in his list of people with 'disputed credentials' is that Wolf uses aliases and had made an incorrect claim about something. I followed a link to the pertaining site where it was pointed out that Wolf had been mistaken about a film. Wolf had said he had seen a film, but in fact he had seen stills. Wolf had admitted in writing that he must have been wrong. That was all. >and found some very interesting pieces of information, first of all >that this Robert Wolf appears under various aliases, but seems to be >identical to an Italian named Robert Frances Franzone. 2. If Bob Wolf is an Italian, this does not corroberate with his claim that he has been a US Navy Seal. Native Italians can't be Seals. 3. I had email contact with Bob some weeks ago and he said he was a retired Seal, retired through a disability, and was now working as a gardener. So are we talking about the same Bob Wolf? If so, can Bob himself shed light on this? Nonetheless it now appears that Bob Wolf as well as Ed Wang seem to be operating as spokesmen for American Computer Comp. That is, if these people exist at all. Having read the post from Wes Thomas, I am beginning to doubt it. There is of course a Bob Wolf (the one on Campbell's site), but is it the same as the one who acts as a front for ACC? From Thomas' post it appears that Ed Wang simply does not exist, or that Ed Wang the New York Times writer does exist, but ACC is using his name without his knowing. The same could be true for Bob Wolf. Note also Wolf's address: mailbox@ix.netcom.com. Mailbox? Who is allowed to use the name mailbox in his address? Wouldn't it be more logical that Wolf has something like BWolf@ix.netcom.com? ACC claimed in its bizarre post on the ISO list that it could use whatever mail address it likes. It appears to be so, and this would vouch against the real Bob Wolf and Ed Wang being involved. What's all this about? Either ACC is very serious about this business with the transistor being based on alien technology and has apparently drawn up some kind of bold, risky and at the same time irresponsible strategy to get this story out. Or ACC is something else. Someone suggested here ACC is a front for an intelligence agency. Well, seems not. Linda Moulton reported on Coast to Coast about her visit to ACC: "But tonight my focus is on my trip to Cranford, New Jersey yesterday, September 13th to meet Jack Schulman (sp?), chairman of the American Computer Company, and to see his offices. =B7 =B7 American Computer Company is located on the second floor of a suite of offices in a business park. To get to ACC's floor you have to pass a security guard, and at night there are laser monitors at the outside doors. If they are interrupted signals go directly to security and to the local police department - all of which were demonstrated for me while I was there. =B7 However, Schulman showed me the pulverized glass left in the tracks of what had been the original ten foot high glass door to ACC's office before the middle of August. It was smashed by something to pieces no bigger than B-Bs, a week after he..." etc. Could it be that Jack Shulman & Co have some serious beef with their former employer AT & T? If the story about the murder of John Morton, former VP of Bell Laboratories, is true, and if Morton was a close friend of Shulman, that could have caused his hatred of AT & T and this in turn could have sparked these bizarre allegations about AT & T's products. That does not mean there can't be a core of truth in it, especially about the transistor. Why else would a medium sized company risk everything? But if so, it's clear that this whole operation has run out of hand. As an information technology journalist, I have never seen a company making such a public relations mess. The tactic seems to be to spread not only information, but also wild suggestions, through all kinds of channels. Not only claims about transistors, but also wild claims about the videophone and Unix coming from alien technology and a remark about 'Sky Station', whatever that is. Still giving them the benefit of the doubt, I hope that someone inform president Jack Shulman that, whatever he is doing, if he goes on like this, this whole operation will fall apart. Let him decide what it is he wants and let him solicit the advice of his public relations department before he goes on. __________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Technology Pages http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp \______________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Surprising New Development From: "WHITE" <mjawhite@digitaldune.net> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 07:38:21 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 22:32:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Surprising New Development > Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 15:54:36 +0900 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Wes Thomas <west@sonic.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: ACC: Surprising New Development To List, EBK, and Wes who posted a forward from asca@ix.netcom.com > [Large snips to the end of the forwarded message from ix.netcom:] > Bye for now, Kids. Oh, yeah, by the way: we think ACC's story is true, and > that it was planted on their website to see if anyone out there can prove > it's true, by 'you know who!' And, we think one of you knew that, so he > started a flame war on it, because he's afraid what might happen to his > list, if he's perceived as friendly to the subject matter. [small snip] > [END OF FORWARD FROM acsa@ix.netcom.com] > - Wes Thomas Thanks Wes for posting the forward. I got a big kick out of the bulk (snipped) of the forwarded message, but the last part really threw me, so I left it because I didn't understand it. What in gawd's name comprises the context or referent material for the statements made? When you shake Corso's and ACC's transistor allegations together in a big box, this much is evident: (1) its hard to get a handle on transistor development until 1947 (2) the Roswell crash and this list and others like it are being used as a vehicle to assimilate pro/con arguments on the subject of its development (3) the odds are that objectively verifiable information exists as to the development of the transistor aside from the enigma of Roswell crash---which will emerge unscathed from the debate---because its highly unlikely that anything useful could have been (or is now being) harvested from an honest-to-god interstellar vehicle. (I certainly have my own fanciful ideas about the purpose(s) behind Corso's disclosures and the ACC serendipity intersect, and the use of Roswell as a vehicle for the debate, but those are discardable to the "oh my gawd" file by any savvy webster, whether they're supportable or not, given the rate of decay or half-life of a thread: to wit, Phoenix lites --- Now that's a hard-core sighting and aside from a few interesting, but non- conclusive, recent posts on it, its lifetime appears to be over.) Best John White Search for other documents from or mentioning: mjawhite | west | asca |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Questions for abductees From: "R.Bull" <RAB@cadcentre.co.uk> [Rob Bull] Date: Mon, 29 Sep 97 15:41:00 BST Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 22:35:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Questions for abductees Hi everyone I have a lady in the UK who has given me details of a 'bedroom visitation' that she has had (not recently) which seems to bear the characteristics of a classic 'bedroom abduction'. (One tall figure, three small ones; husband in a deep sleep next to her, she unable to wake him; puncture and other marks on her skin the next day; other skin marks appearing later after 'restless' nights.) I'm not sure I accept the literal reality of abduction accounts, but are there 'standard questions' I should be asking this lady to determine if her experience is consistent with a classic abduction report? Rob Bull BUFORA Accredited Investigator
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: One Picture is Worth a Thousand Words From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 10:19:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 22:38:45 -0400 Subject: Re: One Picture is Worth a Thousand Words > Date: Sun, 28 Sep 97 20:17:00 > From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: One Picture is Worth a Thousand Words > >From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] > >Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:36:17 -0500 > >To: ufo updates <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: 'The Gulf Breeze Paper' > >ONE PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS > >Copyright 1997 Barbara Becker > >The first photographs seemingly corroborating > >Walters' photos were submitted to the Sentinel on > >December 3, 1987, accompanied by a letter by an > >anonymous person, later to be called, "Jane". A second > >batch of nine photographs was submitted to the > >Sentinel on December 23, 1987 by a person using the > >pseudonym of "Believer Bill". One of the nine photos, > >along with a letter from Bill, was printed in the Sentinel > >on December 24. These are photos 39 and 40 in the > >book. What do they have to do with Ed Walters other > >than they prove his story? Well, actually they dispute > >his story. > Barbara, I have not seen how you logic proved that he did > anything wrong. I think lying is wrong. I think deceiving people is wrong. > Maybe he did take the Believer Bill and Jane photos... does it > really mean that the photos are a hoax? I don't think so... Ok Ed Walters took the B&J photos. They are pics of UFOs seen around his house in 1986 and 1987. When the Jane photo was submitted to the Sentinel, Walters identity as the photographer of the five photos submitted to the paper was unknown. They were submitted as "Mr.X." When the Bill photos were submitetd, Walters identity was known to Cook MUFON, two television stations and another newspaper.(GBS pgs. 99 thru 103.) Yet he submitted the photos under the name of "Believer Bill"...and (page 102) continues the deception..."It wasnt until later that I learned the Sentinel had received nine photos that morning..." Why not, if he took the photos, why not just say, Im Bill? I took the photos. Why continue to say Duane Cook gave me permissionto use the photos? Please give me your take on this. Also, I want you to explain to me why, if Ed Walters could use both a 35mm and a "Hot Shot" cameras, why he continued to use the Polaroid Colorpak? Especially since a 35mm would produce better pictures. Why would he feel it necessary to conceal his ability to use other cameras? Barbara
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Historical Figures: Capt. William B. Nash From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:30:56 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 22:40:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Historical Figures: Capt. William B. Nash Capt. William B. Nash attended Temple University in Philadelphia where he received a B. S. in Education in 1942. During World War II, he served in the Naval Air Transport Service flying PB2Y3R flying boats world wide. After the war, he joined Pan American World Airways and became a Captain in 1946. Later in his career he flew PAA State Department contract aircraft between West Germany and West Berlin. Capt. Nash, was an early supporter and member of Civilian Saucer Intelligence (CSI-NY). Capt. Nash served as an adviser to both National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena (NICAP) and Aerial Phenomena Research Organization (APRO). He was able to help investigate a number of PAA employees' UFO sightings and recruited interested pilots for NICAP membership. On 14 July 1952 while flying at 8,000 feet near Norfolk, Virginia, Nash and his co-pilot William Fortenberry made a classic sighting. An account of which will soon be found at http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/topic/sighting/pilot Capt. Nash, Professor Charles A. Maney, a NICAP board member, http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/sep/m28-010.shtml and Dr. Donald Menzel, director of the Havard Observatory, http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/m/menzel conducted a three way correspondence on the Nash-Fortenberry sighting. Some of the correspondence is located at several different places: the Project Blue Book case file, Menzel's personal papers at the Amercian Philosophical Society and in Richard Hall's files. Menzel presented his theory to explain the sighting in the Menzel and Boyd book, "The World of Flying Saucers." Menzel admitted that neither Maney nor Nash agreed with his conclusions. -- Jan Aldrich Project 1947 http://www.iufog.org/project1947/ -------------------------- Ufomind: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/role/history/ Ufomind: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/n/nicap/ Ufomind: http://www.ufomind.com.ufo/people/c/csi-ny/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: New Phoenix UFOs From: DevereuxP@aol.com Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 20:12:08 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 22:44:55 -0400 Subject: Re: New Phoenix UFOs Hello, List -- Re John Valez' "NY UFO" pic: Resulting from the worldwide earth lights research I have done, I have pneumatically-linked 35mm cameras allowing high quality separated images that allow serious enlargement information and an assessment of size and distance. I have already mentioned this to John with no further response from him other than a polite (and friendly response - but I don't have sophisticated computer equipment to see his pix and he still hasn't sent me video copies of his "sighting", for which I am prepared to pay him). Hey - he has an earth lights researcher merely 55 miles north of him -- time to get onto *real photography* and get rid of this single videocam crap that has so besotted tabloid ufology this past couple of years. Real ufology is surely worth the same consideration as the late Princess Di? In November, I'll have the time to come down to NYC and set John up with real photographic equipment. The challenge is open -- John, are you ready for that? Best wishes, Paul Devereux
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 29 The Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #45 From: Mark Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 22:40:40 Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 23:46:32 -0400 Subject: The Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #45 Welcome to The Crop Circle Connector Mailing List. WHAT`S NEW on the Crop Circle Connector at:- http://alpha.mic.dundee.ac.uk/ft/crop_circles/anasazi/whatsnew.html Updated Monday 29th September 1997 (Members 2209 on 29-9-97) *************************************************************** 1st Annual Crop Circle Conference This is your chance to chat On-Line, about your views, and questions to the researchers, and even the Editors of the Crop Circle Connector. Its an all day event, so please let us have your opinions and interest on this day. Please use the contact email at the bottom of the page. Thank you. We look forward to hearing from you all. Email address: chat98.@marque.demon.co.uk ************************************************************ All the best Mark and Stuart * The Koch Fractal, Silbury Hill, 1997 :/\: .-- --. . :\ /: . *__/\__/ \__/\__* :\ /: ./__ __\. Mark Fussell: ':\ /:' mailto:mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk .'__/ \__'. \ / Subscribe: :/_ __ __ _\: news:alt.paranormal.crop-circles * :\/: \ / :\/: * . :/ \: . The Crop Circle Connector Web Site at: .-- --. http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/connector.html :\/: *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Questions for abductees From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 21:16:50 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 07:36:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Questions for abductees >From: "R.Bull" <RAB@cadcentre.co.uk> [Rob Bull] >To: "'UFO UpDates'" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Questions for abductees >Date: Mon, 29 Sep 97 15:41:00 BST >I'm not sure I accept the literal reality of abduction accounts, >but are there 'standard questions' I should be asking this lady >to determine if her experience is consistent with a classic >abduction report? If you don't "accept the literal reality of abduction accounts," then perhaps you should hand the case over to someone who can be more open-minded/objective. You *should not* be trying to determine "if her experience is consistent with classic abduction report[s]." You should be trying to determine what *her experience* was. Sheesh...!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: New Phoenix UFOs From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 00:40:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 07:38:18 -0400 Subject: Re: New Phoenix UFOs >From: DevereuxP@aol.com >Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 20:12:08 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: New Phoenix UFOs >Hello, List -- >Re John Valez' "NY UFO" pic: >Resulting from the worldwide earth lights research I have done, I >have pneumatically-linked 35mm cameras allowing high quality >separated images that allow serious enlargement information and >an assessment of size and distance. >I have already mentioned this to John with no further response >from him other than a polite (and friendly response - but I don't >have sophisticated computer equipment to see his pix and he still >hasn't sent me video copies of his "sighting", for which I am >prepared to pay him). Hey - he has an earth lights researcher >merely 55 miles north of him -- time to get onto *real >photography* and get rid of this single videocam crap that has so >besotted tabloid ufology this past couple of years. Real ufology >is surely worth the same consideration as the late Princess Di? >In November, I'll have the time to come down to NYC and set John >up with real photographic equipment. >The challenge is open -- John, are you ready for that? Of course you can have a copy Paul. I've sent out about eight already. I have paid for the blanks, made the dupes and paid the postage myself. Sending one to you would be my pleasure, at least you're someone I kinda know! <G> I've been extremely preoccupied with the new AIC website and a lot of things have fallen into the cracks, I wasn't ignoring you Paul. Send me your snail mail address and I'll send you a copy this week. *And, if you're really going to help me with some serious equipment I'll even pay the postage, so save yer change. <VBG> I want to tell you that I'm more than a little relieved to finally get some help with this stuff. I'll shoot em for you, and then _you_ sweat over what they are! <EG> You're on Mr Devereux! And thank you! John Velez John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: New Phoenix UFOs From: xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 22:48:28 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 07:40:09 -0400 Subject: Re: New Phoenix UFOs >Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 01:37:45 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: New Phoenix UFOs >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) >>Subject: New Phoenix UFOs >>Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 16:01:22 EST >Tommy, if anything comes out on the photos that you took, could >you please post a copy here to the list so I (all of us) can >check it out? >John Velez I have gotten the pictures back. I shot the rest of the roll off on black military helicopters flying around today. This time there was enough light on the photo, but the 1 hour photo lab didn't print all of the photos from the negatives. I've had this problem for 5 months now. The one photo I received shows a blue sky with a white streak in the 3X5. Blur was in every photo, even though you can still basically see what I was shooting. The one photo shows something that is very bright and creates a cylinder looking object due to the shutter speed of the camera. I will have this negative scanned and send it to a few people to look at even though the image is basically wasted. In the future I will use our other 35mm camera. This one isn't automatic but has a variable shutter speed to correct for the motion blur. If someone out there claims to have "real" equipment, bring it over here. I've been waiting for years to see it. Tom King, Skywatcher Arizona Skywatch director AZ Skywatch http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/skywatch/skywatch.htm OVNI Chapterhouse at http://personal.netwrx.net/xalium/ufovideo.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 30 Photo techniques, filters, and film [was: New From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 01:33:30 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 08:27:10 -0400 Subject: Photo techniques, filters, and film [was: New > Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 23:10:14 +0900 (GMT+0900) > From: Chris Penrose <penrose@cmlab.sfc.keio.ac.jp> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: New Phoenix UFOs > Anyway, (I hope I don't > inspire a flood of hoaxes in this different medium) night sightings > may be an excellent candidate for INFRARED film. This film can pick > up thermal radiation or heat, and saucer folklore has ample evidence > suggesting that these visitors are hot! Infrared film is not > difficult to obtain, but it is difficult to use. It must be loaded > quickly in an extremely dark environment. It can't sit in your camera > long either. Perhaps the die hard sky watcher can dedicate a camera > to infrared, and replace the film, used or not, daily. Unfortunately, > normal light meters do not work with it. Perhaps hand held infrared > meters exist. If they do, every UFOlogist should have one :) Also note that you should have a red filter. IR sensitive film comes in both B&W and color slide types, each of which provides different information - but both types really need the red filter. You also need to be aware that IR does not focus on the same focal plane as visible light. Manual lenses usually have a marker that allows you to compensate, but I am unaware as to how more automatic lenses (such as the Minolta Maxxum) compensate. Perhaps Bob Shell can enlighten us on that. IR film usually must be sent away to special labs for processing. There is also another type of film which edges into UV, but I have never worked with it. People interested in insects use this film for seeing the UV patterns on flower petals which are visible to bees and other insects, but not to us. Please keep in mind that a polarizing filter alone can provide information of relevance. Webb once sighted a UFO and noted some rings around the object which were only visible when seen through Polaroid sun glasses. As yet, I am unaware of any further observations of this kind. This is potentially far more interesting that either UV or IR output, since light polarizes in an EM field, and we can learn a lot about UFO energies if we can watch, or, better, photograph with a polarizing filter. In addition, it can potentially be used for daylight sightings as well, since one might expect UFO polarization to also affect the background polarization of the sky. If you are going to do this, however, you need a calibrated filter that allows you to know the polarization angle of the filter. Again, perhaps Bob can make some recommendations on this. At any rate, this is important, because it helps us get better information about the quality of any polarization imaged. Other interesting experiments might include the use of astronomical filters. The interesting thing about these filters is that they allow only specific frequencies to pass, and those frequencies are calibrated to the emission lines of certain excitation levels of ionized elements. This is interesting, because it could be used to confirm what elements at what ionizations are dominant in the UFO luminosity. While we assume that UFO luminosity is based primarily in ionized nitrogen because of how common that is, with some mixture of oxygen ions, we really have no objective confirmation of this, and it is certainly possible that UFOs inject other elements into the near surface area to aid in ionization. The ideal filter would be a pie of slivers from specific filters of this sort, using the dominant lines of nitrogen, oxygen, and perhaps one or two others. Thus, with a single photo, it would be possible to see variations in intensity which would reflect the composition of ionized areas and also the energies applied. Finally, I'd point out that the evidence on IR output from UFOs is mixed. Some cases, such as Cash-Landrum indicate high IR output, and a recent photo shown in the recent Maccabee/Walters book indicates variations in IR output; however, the vast majority of close encounters indicate only mild heat output. UV, on the other hand, is a fairly consistent component of UFO reports, and most UFO burns are apparently due to UV or harder radiations. ------ Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman - Original digital art, writing, and UFO research - Author of SF novels available at... http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront ------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Questions for abductees From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 01:36:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 08:56:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Questions for abductees >From: "R.Bull" <RAB@cadcentre.co.uk> [Rob Bull] >To: "'UFO UpDates'" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Questions for abductees >Date: Mon, 29 Sep 97 15:41:00 BST >Hi everyone >I have a lady in the UK who has given me details of a 'bedroom >visitation' that she has had (not recently) which seems to bear >the characteristics of a classic 'bedroom abduction'. (One tall >figure, three small ones; husband in a deep sleep next to her, >she unable to wake him; puncture and other marks on her skin the >next day; other skin marks appearing later after 'restless' >nights.) >I'm not sure I accept the literal reality of abduction accounts, >but are there 'standard questions' I should be asking this lady >to determine if her experience is consistent with a classic >abduction report? Hi Rob, You may want to check out a copy of Dave Jacobs book, "Secret Lives" for a listing of commonly reported phenomena or, you can e-mail me and I'll send you a copy of the 52 question diagnostic (that is also available on the web.) Muy Importante! If she has physical manifestations _of any kind_ they need to be checked (treated if necessary) and documented by initiating a visit to her family physician. Photographic documentation is also invaluable as these marks sometimes disappear rapidly. (Others do not) The 'prime directive' must always be the _well being_ of the individual and not the 'work.' A few diagnostic sessions with a good and trusted counsellor wouldn't hurt either. Find out what else may be happening in her life. The larger the support network that is in place when this kind of investigation is initiated the better the chances for the experiencer to eventually deal with the material in a healthy fashion, move on, and get back to the business of living. In my work with IF and with all of those who contacted us for help I found that the best that anyone can do for someone in this situation is to surround them with loved ones and as many competent and caring professionals as are required or can be recruited. The object _must be_ to return the individual back to their lives and loved ones with as little disruption as possible. Gathering proof or research info should always take a back seat to that. Investigating abduction accounts is very tricky business. Buena fortuna. It's also very reassuring to hear you asking questions and seeking advice, that's a good sign. I wish you all the best in your work. If I can be of any service just contact me privately, I am at your disposal. John Velez, Experienced mid-wife John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 30 Carl Sagan Requested US State Dept. UFO Info From: Kenny Young <task@fuse.net> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 03:05:11 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 09:00:09 -0400 Subject: Carl Sagan Requested US State Dept. UFO Info Article: "Classified Documents Cost Big Bucks" September 30, 1997 By MIKE FEINSILBER Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON (AP) -- You want to read the minutes of the Board of Foreign Scholarships from 1972-75. You want to pore over 20-year-old records of the Lake Ontario Claims Tribunal. You want to see the daily journals of the U.S. military's advisory team in South Vietnam's Dinh Tuong Province in 1971. Have at it: They're secrets no longer. They've been declassified. Every day, thousands of federal workers spend their days reading old government documents. If they find nothing that the national interest compels keeping secret, they scratch through the rubber-stamped ``top secret,'' ``secret'' or ``confidential'' at the top and mark them reviewed, cleared and accessible to anyone who wants to read them. At the same time, thousands of federal workers spend their days creating new classified materials, new state secrets. The mountain shrinks; the mountain grows. No one knows how many secret documents are made each year, especially since the photocopier and the computer make it a breeze to create -- or duplicate -- a classified document. With the push of a button of either, the mountain of secrets grows. But it looks like the mountain is finally shrinking. With the Cold War over, the government is creating fewer fresh secrets and letting go of more old ones. In the 12 months that ended Oct. 1, 1996, a total of 196 million pages were declassified, more than the combined total of the previous 12 years. The government has reasons of economy to shed old secrets. Studies say it costs nine times as much to keep classified papers as unclassified papers, according to Stephen Garfinkel, who, as head of the Information Security Oversight Office at the National Archives, oversees the drive to declassify. That takes into account the cost of vaults and chain-link fences and guards and of conducting FBI investigations of anyone authorized to classify papers, or declassify them. A Clinton administration directive gives agencies impetus to review old records. It says all documents of historical value that are more than 25 years old will automatically be declassified in April 2000 unless they are exempted by national security considerations. Declassifying documents can be tedious business for officials who must plow through records of the Intergovernmental Oceanographic Committee from three decades ago or blueprints for ships no longer afloat. But one never knows, say the declassifiers. The old ship records became important when the Navy needed to know whether sailors had been exposed to asbestos fibers. And recently some old Treasury records became crucially important when the world wanted to know more about the Swiss acquisition of gold seized by the Nazis from their victims. The Treasury sent a few million pages to the National Archives to be declassified pronto, said archivist Tim Willard. But most of the work is more mundane, and dullness carries its own reward, said Don McIlwain, another archivist. When it gets interesting, he said, ``I tend to have the bad habit of really reading this stuff.'' More often, he said, one develops a sixth sense in looking for secrets that ought to remain so. Even when pressed for high points of years of reading government secrets, Willard and McIlwain are hard-pressed to come up with something likely to shout, ``Now it can be told!'' McIlwain told of State Department memos concerning the NATO crisis of 1966, when France pulled partly out of the alliance. He was struck by finding memos that had been written by Dean Acheson, a former secretary of state called out of retirement to advise President Johnson during the crisis, and another written by Lawrence Eagleburger, a bureaucrat who 25 years later served as President Bush's secretary of state. ``You realize you're working with the building blocks of history,'' he said. For Willard a memorable discovery was a letter astronomer Carl Sagan wrote the State Department, while a graduate student, asking if it knew anything about unidentified flying objects. ``Generally, you have to wade through a ton of junk to find the good stuff,'' said McIlwain. ``Some days are interesting, and some very dull.'' End of article -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ___________ ________ ________ ____ ___ * * /__ ____/ / __ ) ( ____/ / // / * * / / / /__| | \ \ / < * * / / / ____ | ___\ \ / /\ \ * * /___/ /___/ |___| /_______) /___/ \___\ * * * * http://home.fuse.net/task/ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "Investigation without predisposition." T.A.S.K. - Tri-State Advocates for Scientific Knowledge
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 30 Travelling faster than light? From: Christophe Meessen <meessen@cppm.in2p3.fr> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 09:47:51 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 09:02:19 -0400 Subject: Travelling faster than light? I have seen some discussion on traveling faster light as beeing required for long distance travels. I will just give here some numbers reflecting the relativity effect of astronautes travaleing at a speed close to the speed of light. This has been published in french in the second book of the Belgian UFO flap from the SOBEPS. One day I may provide a translated version with the equations. Now for short: For a distance of 50 light years, by admitting an acceleration of 1 g (thus as confortable as on earth), from somebody staying at the home base the travel will take 52 years. Supposing to take 1 year to reach a speed close to the speed of light. But for the astronaut experiencing the relativity the travel duration will be only 7.9 years ! Supposing the astronaut stays 4 years there and comes back, in total it will have taken 20 years for him but 108 years for people that stayed on the homebase. For a distance of 1000 light years, the duration will be only 13.8 years! It does not mean they travel faster than light. It is just an effect of time relativity. Again supposing the astronaut stays 4 years there and comes back, it will have taken 32 years in total. But on the home base 2008 years have passed ! Now for a distance of 30000 light years, the distance to the center of our galaxy, the travel duration will be 20,6 years only ! Don't ask me what the astronaut will find when he comes back ! Conclusions: - faster than speed of light is not required and as far as we know today impossible anyway. - long distance travels are in the human life time scale. problems left to solve: - energy ! Even for a 10 light year travel, the energy required is 3.6 time the rest energy (mc^2) of the "rocket". This means energy must be take from the surrounding space matter (dark matter?) But this sounds still possible - obstacles ! This is the most problematic part of interstellar travels. The energy of the rocket colliding a sand dust would be tremendous and the effect might be painful. - cosmic rays ! Showering astronauts for such long periods with cosmic rays may have some irreversible effects on their health too for instance DNA, etc. As you can see there are many problems to solve but speed and travel duration is NOT a problem. Beside there is no single evidence allowing one to impose that every ET UFO (if they exist) visiting earth has just covered such a ling distance. The frequency of UFO observation implies that the may have a sort of homebase in "close" vicinity like in our solar system or even closer. Just my 2 cents.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: ACC: Wolf's Identity Unravelled? From: Wes Thomas <west@sonic.net> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 23:41:06 +0900 Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 09:05:05 -0400 Subject: Re: ACC: Wolf's Identity Unravelled? Stig said: >a company making such a public relations mess. The tactic seems >to be to spread not only information, but also wild suggestions, >through all kinds of channels. Not only claims about transistors, >but also wild claims about the videophone and Unix coming from >alien technology and a remark about 'Sky Station', whatever that >is. This tactic sounds like the standard intel psyop strategy: put out enough confusing, contradictory, and absurd information (mixed in with some gems of truth) to make people just give up and stop thinking about the whole thing. U.S. Air Force UFO "explanations" leap to mind. This tactic might also apply to Corso's book. I'm still waiting for Corso to name just one living scientist or engineer who actually *did* the alleged reverse engineering. Curious that no one pressed Corso for this obvious information, or did I miss something? WT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 30 ACC: Shulman & Schwartz are same person? From: UFO Joe Daniels <ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 05:23:36 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 09:26:57 -0400 Subject: ACC: Shulman & Schwartz are same person? I don't know if this is any help because I have not been folowing the thread on ACC but I have the address of a representative from ACC that is using the mail system at ix.netcom.com: (From Four11) JOHN SCHWARTZ Cranford, New Jersey EMail: Acsa@ix.netcom.com (Also Email for Jack Shulman, See Below) (American Computer Scientists Association) Nicolai_Tesla@msn.com (Also Email for ACC, See Below) Websites: http://www.compamerica.com http://pcmaker.com Current Organization: AMERICAN COMPUTER COMPANY PCMaker LLC --------------------------------------------------------------------- According to GTE Superpages Listings for "American Computer Company": AMERICAN COMPUTER COMPANY 6 Commerce Drive, Westfield, NJ 07090 (800)850-7710 (908)272-3330 (908)272-6297(FAX) Email: nicolai_tesla@msn.com <=== NOTE SAME E-MAIL AS ABOVE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I did a reverse search on mailbox@ix.netcom.com with no luck. That account would probably belong to the system administrator of the system. I did a reverse search on acsa@ix.netcom.com it came back with the name: JACK SHULMAN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack Shulman and John Schwartz meets the typical pattern of aliases in that the first letters are the same. Could they be the same person? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Then I did forward search (Big Foot) on Jack Shulman and got the Address: nicolaitesla@msn.com. It would appear that John Shwartz and Jack Shulman might be the same person, or at least they share the same two email addresses: acsa@ix.netcom.com and nicolai_tesla@msn.com It is also interesting to note that the name of the alledged "informer" at ACC is John "Jack" Morton. Could this be yet another alias? Or another coincidence? John/Jack Schwartz, John/Jack Shulman, John/Jack Morton? Will the next alais be John or Jack (insert-any-jewish-surname)? Let me know if any of this information is of any use. Thanks. .-----------------------------------------------------------------------. | From UFO Joe Daniels ufojoe@cron-2.mco.net -or- http://cron-2.mco.net | | 37122-769 Southdale Road, East, London, Ontario, Canada, N6E-3B0 | `-----------------------------------------------------------------------' Search for other documents from or mentioning: ufojoe | acsa |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: ACC: Shulman & Schwartz are same person? From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 07:35:53 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 22:52:15 -0400 Subject: Re: ACC: Shulman & Schwartz are same person? > From: UFO Joe Daniels <ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca> > Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 05:23:36 -0400 (EDT) > Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 09:26:57 -0400 > Subject: ACC: Shulman & Schwartz are same person? > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jack Shulman and John Schwartz meets the typical pattern of aliases in > that the first letters are the same. Could they be the same person? > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Then I did forward search (Big Foot) on Jack Shulman and got the > Address: > nicolaitesla@msn.com. It would appear that John Shwartz and Jack > Shulman might be the same person, or at least they share the same > two email addresses: acsa@ix.netcom.com and nicolai_tesla@msn.com > It is also interesting to note that the name of the alledged "informer" > at ACC is John "Jack" Morton. Could this be yet another alias? > Or another coincidence? > John/Jack Schwartz, John/Jack Shulman, John/Jack Morton? > Will the next alais be John or Jack (insert-any-jewish-surname)? > Let me know if any of this information is of any use. Thanks. Joe, I suspected this very early on in my correspodance with ACC and after looking into the matter I now believe it to be unlikely. I think Jack Shulman and John Schwartz are different people. The first thing that got me curious is how similar they sounded over the phone. When Linda Howe called me to discuss the case I told her that I considered it to be a good possibility that Shulman and Schwartz were the same person. Since that time it has been my understanding that Schwartz is the nephew of Shulman and also happens to be the Vice President of ACC. Schwartz told me that he and Shulman are the only jewish people in the company. He was concerned at the time because ACC had recieved a great deal of anti-semetic e-mail after the initial Roswell posting. I asked Linda if she had met Schwartz on her trip to ACC and she stated that she had not. She may have checked out this possibility on her own. Jared. Search for other documents from or mentioning: jared | ufojoe |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: ACC's Explanation Of The Strange Coincidences From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 15:08:57 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 09:42:32 -0400 Subject: Re: ACC's Explanation Of The Strange Coincidences Ed just sent me this reply, which explains it all. And by the way. A very reliable source, whom I know, has talked to Shulman on the phone, asking him among other things if Bob Wolf and Robert Wolf are identical. They are not. These are his exact words to me: "He said he'd never met either Wolf or Wang but did spend a lot of time talking to Wolf on the phone and, said that he's let Wolf use something in his server system...like email. Sorry, can't recall the exact details but it would explain how Wolf would seem linked to ACC. It's not Robert Ghost Wolf." Can't tell you any more than that right now. I'll keep you updated. Stig *** No strange coincidence at all. This is a "group" usage account, and I was given it to use by the American Computer Science Assn. I've explained this to others. It funnels into a LAN at a location (non-specific) in New Jersey, and every incoming email is stored, peer reviewed and, some, analyzed, then those for ACC get forwarded to ACC (but I can read them), those it is determined are for me get forwarded to my email account, and so forth, until all recipients receive their specific mail. Those that can not be identified are stored in the LAN NT Server and we all check in every day or two. Its part of a service called "Iso Mail" provided by the ACSA. All email in and out of this account is permanently archived by ACSA, who is serving as a passive "referree" of the matter. They maintain a special audit trail of all accesses and receipts. This account receives about 500+ emails per day, and every 4 hours from 9 to midnight, staff review and forward mail to the appropriate recipient. There are about a half dozen staffers and about 10 receiving parties assigned to this account. Leaving nothing to the imagination - anyone who has ever flamed me or sent me interesting email, is a part of the permanent record of this particular account. All flame emails are investigated to their original source (not by me, but by ACSA). Also, its a free account!! Retirement doesn't pay that well. If this surprises you, don't be so surprised. ACC welcomed ACSA's "auditing" services to insure that email they received was 'verified by an outside source'. I think its a damned smart thing to do. -- Ed ---------- >> From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> >> To: acsa@ix.netcom.com >> Subject: Strange Coincidence >> Date: Thursday, September 25, 1997 9:13 PM >> >> Just in passing, Ed! >> >> Remember I asked you to forward my e-mail to Jack Shulman? >> >> I noticed that your e-mail address (acsa@ix.netcom.com) is the same as >> the one that receives comments on ACC's Roswell page. Another >> observation: >> >> "American Computer Scientists Association", of which Jack Shulman is >> chairman and one of the co-founders, sometimes refers to itself as >> ACSA, an abbreviation which by a strange coincidence is the same as >> your and the ACC address's username. >> >> Any comments? >> Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id AAA28577 for <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk>; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 00:18:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from nyc-ny5-24.ix.netcom.com(199.183.41.56) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma028391; Tue Sep 30 00:17:23 1997 Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 22:30:49 -0400 From: "acsa" <acsa@ix.netcom.com> To: "Stig Agermose" <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk> Subject: Re: Strange Coincidence Message-Id: <199709300518.AAA28577@dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Search for other documents from or mentioning: stig_agermose | acsa |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: One Picture is Worth a Thousand Words From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 09:47:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 22:54:22 -0400 Subject: Re: One Picture is Worth a Thousand Words What happened to my critics? Steve, Don, Roger et al? I thought we were going to have a good discussion. Do you not understand the law? Or does your silence indicate agreement? BB
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 20:53:20 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 22:55:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous >Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 23:26:34 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous >> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 20:28:09 +0100 >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculous >Hi Sean, >I do happen to agree that the aliens do, in effect anyway, >greatly exceed the speed of light in getting here from far out. >But I think that how they do it is probably so far ahead of our >present understanding that even back-engineering of a healthy UFO >would not reveal the secret. So I feel that there's no point in >our wasting time trying to discuss how. But if Corso and others >are right, we (or rather those directly involved) have been able >to make certain technical advances through similar back >engineering, and so perhaps more can be done that way than I >would have guessed. >Jim Deardorff Hello Jim Your guess is as good as anyones as to what or how much "we" have gained from alien technology. There are things in the universe billions of years older than our human race. They are vast, they are timeless. If they are aware of us at all we are of no more consequence to them as ants are to us. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/ http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/Index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Questions for abductees From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 08:03:11 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 23:00:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Questions for abductees >Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 01:36:18 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Questions for abductees >>From: "R.Bull" <RAB@cadcentre.co.uk> [Rob Bull] >>To: "'UFO UpDates'" <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Questions for abductees >>Date: Mon, 29 Sep 97 15:41:00 BST >You may want to check out a copy of Dave Jacobs book, "Secret >Lives" for a listing of commonly reported phenomena or, you can >e-mail me and I'll send you a copy of the 52 question diagnostic >(that is also available on the web.) John, the reason I objected before to this line of attack (so to speak) is that you do *not* want to have a standardized abduction scenario at your side while you are investigating a case. You will automatically find yourself categorizing details by the established way of looking at things, thereby missing the opportunity to understand *new* information and perceptions. This is the same status quo-ism that we accuse scientists of perpetuating all the time, but we don't realize that the researchers in the UFO field are guilty of the same thing. Many abductees have vehemently objected to this kind of approach in the past, and we will continue to do so! Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Zeta Notso Rediculous From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 20:56:12 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 23:02:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Rediculous >Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 17:49:23 -0300 >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Rediculous >I didn't know that the question had anything to do with warping >space and time. The statement had been made about having to go >faster than the speed of light. That isn't true. For all we know >there are several mother ships posted in nearby space.. a few >light minutes away sending earth excrusion modules down here as >required just as we used aircraft carriers off Vietnam to serve >as a base for planes making many sorties a day.. none coming from >the US. >Stan Friedman Hello Stanton Do you think that the rumour of a "huge" shadow (in excess of several kilometres) that passed over one of the martian probes is true? There are things in the universe billions of years older than our human race. They are vast, they are timeless. If they are aware of us at all we are of no more consequence to them as ants are to us. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/ http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/Index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: ACC: Wolf's Identity Unravelled? From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 18:08:42 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 23:08:05 -0400 Subject: Re: ACC: Wolf's Identity Unravelled? Wes Thomas said: >Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 23:41:06 +0900 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Wes Thomas <west@sonic.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: ACC: Wolf's Identity Unravelled? >Stig said: >>a company making such a public relations mess. The >>tactic seems o be to spread not only information, but >>also wild suggestions, through all kinds of channels. >>Not only claims about transistors, but also wild >>claims about the videophone and Unix coming from >>alien technology and a remark about 'Sky Station', >>whatever that is. >This tactic sounds like the standard intel psyop >strategy: put out enough confusing, contradictory, and >absurd information (mixed in with some gems of truth) >to make people just give up and stop thinking about the >whole thing. U.S. Air Force UFO "explanations" leap to >mind. I never said what you quote me for. The quote is taken from the ensuing post, which Henny van der Pluijms sent to UFO Updates, as a reply to one of mine. I'll bring the headers and two excerpts. >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: ACC: Wolf's Identity >Unravelled? >>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 01:29:29 +0200 >>Subject: Wolf's Identity Unravelled? >Almost everything snipped. >Stig, thanks a lot for your further research. Personally I >was already aware that there was a Bob Wolf who >used aliases and that he seemed to be a shaman. Two >comments about Bob Wolf: (snip) >But if so, it's clear that this whole operation has run out >of hand. As an information technology journalist, I have >never seen a company making such a public relations >mess. The tactic seems to be to spread not only >information, but also wild suggestions, through all kinds >of channels. Not only claims about transistors, but also >wild claims about the videophone and Unix coming from >alien technology and a remark about 'Sky Station', >whatever that is.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: ACC: Surprising New Development From: "WHITE" <mjawhite@digitaldune.net> [John White] Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 08:05:52 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 22:59:25 -0400 Subject: Re: ACC: Surprising New Development > Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 15:54:36 +0900 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Wes Thomas <west@sonic.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: ACC: Surprising New Development Good morning, List: The more I read the threat-mail which Wes picked up from acsa@ix.netcom.com, the odder its wording seemed to me. So I put that address to a search in Altavista and came up with the following addresses: (http://www.compamerica.com/dlg/) whose snail address is Law Offices of Daniel Louis Grossman 11 Commerce Drive Cranford, N.J. 07016 with a link to (http://www.compamerica.com) whose snail address is American Computer Company 6 Commerce Drive, 2nd Floor Cranford, N.J. 07016 The oddity of the wording in the threat-mail is that it never really says that our e-mail had been read, only that it could be read and that we are ninnys if we think otherwise. Passingly clever; exceedingly puerile. John White mjawhite@digitaldune.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Claims and Reality From: fergus@ukraine.corp.mot.com [George Fergus] Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 10:53:40 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 23:04:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Claims and Reality > From: Robert Herloski <herloski@scan.mc.xerox.com> > To: "'updates@globalserve.net'" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Claims and Reality > Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 06:27:39 PDT >> 1953 - First silicon transistor > In the original Phys. Rev. article, Bardeen and Brattain state > (in a footnote) that the transistor effect has been found in both > silicon and germanium: > Excerpt from: Bardeen and Brattain, Phys. Rev. 74, 230 (1948). > The Transistor, a Semi-Conductor Triode > J. Bardeen and W.H. Brattain > June 25, 1948 > A three-element electronic device which utilizes a newly discovered > principle involving a semiconductor as the basic element is > described. It may be employed as an amplifier, oscillator, and > for other purposes for which vacuum tubes are ordinarily used. > The device consists of three electrodes placed on a block of > germanium (1) as shown schematically in Fig. 1.... > (1) While the effect has been found with both silicon and germanium, > we describe only the use of the latter. Hi Bob, They were conducting research on both silicon and germanium. What the above footnote refers to is that an anomalous current had been observed in an aqueous solution with both silicon and germanium, but was stronger in the latter, particularly in the high-back-voltage germanium rectifier. Although all of this behavior was later attributed to the "transistor effect", only the better material was successfully made into a transistor at that time. An actual transistor was not made out of silicon until 1953. Here is the relevant description from my original post, quoting Bardeen and Brattain: "It was while studying the latter effect with a silicon surface immersed in a liquid that it was found that the density of surface charges and the field in the space charge region could be varied by applying a potential across an electrolyte in contact with the silicon surface. While studying the effect of field applied applied by an electrolyte on the current voltage characeristic of a high-back-voltage germanium rectifier, the authors were led to the concept that a portion of the current was being carried by holes flowing near the surface." -George Fergus Reference: "Physical Principles Involved in Transistor Action", BELL SYSTEM TECHNICAL JOURNAL 28, 239-277 (Apr 1949) also printed in PHYSICAL REVIEW 75, 1208-1225 (1949)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Phoenix Sightings Update From: William.Hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com Date: Tuesday, 30 September 1997 10:02am MT Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 23:24:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Sightings Update PHOENIX SIGHTINGS UPDATE I have two items of interest to those who have followed the story on the Phoenix sightings of March 13. 1) I have finally received the statement published in Tucson Weekly on those A-10s from Maryland. "Lt. Keith Shepherd, public information officer at Davis- Monthan Air Force Base, confirms that an eight-plane squadron of A-10 fighter-bombers from the 175th Fighter Wing, based in Baltimore, Maryland, landed at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base at approximately 8:30 p.m. on March 13, returning from the Phoenix area. The Baltimore unit was in Arizona to conduct training exercises." and "Shepherd says an initial check at Davis-Monthan revealed that all of the planes permanently stationed at the Air Force base had landed before 6 p.m. on March 13. It was a recent report from a Marana Air National Guard unit that inspired a deeper look at the records." (Tucson Weekly Vol. 14 No. 21 July 24-30, 1997) When this was published in the Arizona Republic, some facts got changed including the time of landing. This caused some skeptics to proclaim that the videos of the Phoenix Lights taken close to 10 p.m. that night were the flare drops from these A-10s that had landed an hour-and-a-half earlier! These flare drops, accomplished before 8:30 p.m. on that night, do not account for the horizontally moving formation of lights seen over Phoenix at around 8:30 p.m. We are back to "unidentifieds". 2) One of the sightings on March 13 was of a formation of amber lights (more than a mile in span) that was seen by a retired airline pilot, Trig Johnston, at about 10:20 p.m. moving south above Scottsdale Blvd. A second witness, named Curtis, has now come forward and given the same description as Trig from a different viewing location. This second witness claims to have videotaped those moving lights from his roof. He says that he was going to deliver this tape to City Councilwoman Frances Barwood after talking to her on the phone. The day he grabbed the tape to go to the post office with it, he heard a knock on the door. He says, two men dressed in black suits, black ties, black business hats and wearing sun glasses were at the door stating they had come from Barwood's office. They collected the tape, saying they would deliver it for him. When they went to walk away, one turned asking Curtis if he had made a copy for himself, and Curtis replied that he did not whereby the MIB said, "good"! Was Curtis telling the truth about this incident? We do not know yet. His recounting of the sighting matches our pilot witness, but the bizarre MIB element has finally reared up on this case. Why he did not make a copy of this tape is something we cannot answer at this time. If any MIBs out there have this tape, we would appreciate a copy please and would also like you to correctly identify yourself. (FAT CHANCE). Sincerely, Bill Hamilton Exec Dir Skywatch International
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: New Phoenix UFOs From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@doitnow.com> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 10:31:32 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 23:27:11 -0400 Subject: Re: New Phoenix UFOs > >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >>From: xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) > >>Subject: New Phoenix UFOs > >>Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 16:01:22 EST > >Tommy, if anything comes out on the photos that you took, could > >you please post a copy here to the list so I (all of us) can > >check it out? > >John Velez > I have gotten the pictures back. I shot the rest of the roll off on black > military helicopters flying around today. No commentary from me in regards to Phoenix lights other than we only moved here on June 5th. and I haven't seen diddly. <grin> Black Helicopters though, there is a different story. I have been working with the 'I AM America' folks up in Payson and pertaining to that, Julie and I were travelling up there a few Fridays ago on the Beeline Highway ... to see a low flying BLACK (not dark green) Apache or other attack chopper following the road. This guy wasn't more than 150 feet up. I could plainly make out the rocket tubes and cannon. Last year driving back to New Mexico after the Prophecy Conference in Mesa (June 96), heading toward Payson we both watched a hovering UFO sitting over a ridge to the north in broad daylight. Julie has seen it on at least one other occasion since June of this year while we have been driving up there. Due to extensive construction being done on the hiway lately ... converting it from two lanes to four, I haven't been afforded the luxury of watching the skies. As to nocturnal lights over the Valley of the Sun, we live in mid Mesa and haven't seen a thing other than many aircraft that turn overhead prior to landing at Sky Harbor. Two nights ago however, Julie called me outside to view what I instantly labeled as a small aircraft high overhead. It was a strobing light, but did not seem to flash in the same sequence as the many I have witnessed before. To be honest, I did think of returning into the apartment to get binoculars, but realized that I had watched it for too long to get a decent look at even using them. What struck me as odd was the fact that I have seldom if ever within my recollection, witnessed a small aircraft travelling from roughly north to south within that particular quadrant of the sky. I believe this is due to it being an approach area for commercial aircraft coming into Sky Harbor airport. Kindest Regards, Clarke Hathaway
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Aliens Abduct City's Identity From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 14:30:59 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 23:30:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Aliens Abduct City's Identity By Anne Midgette, The Wall Street Journal Roswell, N.M. -- When I was preparing to leave for college in the early '80s, I bought a souvenir of my hometown: a T-shirt bearing the legend "Roswell, New Mexico: Known for Absolutely Nothing." How times have changed. Roswell is known for something now, all right. Its citizens still aren't sure what hit them. I refer not necessarily to the object that struck the ground on July 6, 1947 -- although the debate rages on about whether it was a weather balloon, Soviet weapon, or genuine UFO. I'm talking about the notoriety that has struck the small city (pop. 48,000) with surreal force. The site where the object landed, on Hub Corn's ranch north of town, has returned to earthbound normalcy -- polled Herefords grazing their way toward feedlot mortality with bovine indifference toward anything alien to their alimentary calling. But on Main Street every second shop window sports an alien; the local Arby's has a new sign proclaiming "Aliens Welcome"; and Bud's, a country dance bar, is billing itself as the "Unofficial UFO Crash Recovery Site." There are even two UFO museums: the modest, original UFO Enigma Museum in the south of town, about to relocate to larger premises, and the UFO Museum and Research Center, in an old movie theater right on Main Street, with an "Alien Caffeine Espresso Bar" consisting of a few cafeteria-style plastic tables and seats. And at the UFO museum in Midway, a couple of miles south, you can view videos of hundreds of onsite UFO sightings from the past three years alone. This is all new. No one talked about aliens when I went to high school in Roswell, and if our mascot at Goddard High School was a rocket, it was only because Robert Goddard actually did test his first rocket engines here (his workshops are preserved in the Roswell Museum and Art Center, which has nothing to do with UFOs). Now, I return home to find silver critters and flying saucers at every turn, and the town abuzz with talk of the 50th anniversary week, which drew 150,000 . . . well, 50,000 . . . well, maybe 25,000 visitors. The first figure was the projected attendance, the second the official one and the third the actual one, according to John Price, founder and executive director of the UFO Enigma Museum, who notes an official tendency to double figures. Some believers would have it that the reason residents like me knew so little about the incident is that the government hushed the matter up. According to my sources, one elderly volunteer docent who helped out at the UFO Museum during the anniversary week informed her audiences that the government told Roswellites that if anyone breathed a word, it would kill them all. The government must have undergone a remarkable change of heart, since the Roswell Incident has now appeared everywhere from the cover of Time magazine to Absolut Vodka ads, and since Roswell's UFO museums -- which display mainly press clippings and signed testimonials -- demonstrate that just about anyone with a claim to a story is entitled to speak his mind at length about the events of the night in question. My two personal favorites are the funeral-home employee Glenn Dennis, who remembers Army officers coming in the dead of night to order two child-size coffins, and the freelance cameraman who went out to film the site and saw an Army officer hit a wounded alien over the head with the butt of his rifle to loosen the creature's grasp on the object it was clutching. These days, Roswell's local government is represented by Mayor Tom Jennings, who seems to believe that any press is good press. He does, however, bear a grudge against The Wall Street Journal for having thus far overlooked what he sees as a first-rate business story. "This is a marketing feat," he informed me at a cocktail party, having handed me a Roswell lapel pin shaped like a UFO, with a grinning alien poised atop it. "Within three years, we have created an industry in Roswell where there was none before -- the tourist industry. We get 1,000 people a day through Roswell, and those people are buying airplane tickets, eating in restaurants." Mayor Jennings sees himself as something of a visionary. "I've had this UFO stuff on my letterhead, my business cards, since I was elected in 1994. My predecessor didn't want to hear about UFOs; he said everyone would think we're kooks." Too busy basking in his 15 minutes of renown to worry about whether or not his predecessor was right, Mayor Jennings went off, after our conversation, to open a trade fair in Groeningen, Holland, leaving his secretaries to curate his office, which, with its weight of UFO memorabilia and framed newspaper clippings, could qualify as Roswell's third UFO museum. I'm not the only one with mixed emotions about my town's new fame. While some residents hedge their bets, echoing Mayor Jennings's opinion that "it would be arrogant of our society to assume that we're the only life in the universe," others, like housewife and musician Tina Williams, dismiss the whole thing, seeing it as a waste of time and refusing point-blank to enter the UFO museums even in the cause of friendship. Some residents are merely indignant that the media portray Roswell as a hick town in the middle of nowhere, when in fact it's the population center of southeastern New Mexico and home to the nation's largest mozzarella factory. Some people, like my stepfather, Donald B. Anderson, up and left town to avoid the crowds during anniversary week. Mr. Anderson, a resident since 1946 and therefore a first-hand witness of events in Roswell on July 6, 1947, points out that UFO sightings were a common occurrence in America during that particular period: "The only thing different about the Roswell incident is that they actually had some pieces of something." The Enigma Museum's Mr. Price sums up the ambivalence of many locals. "I've made my wife's dream come true," he says. "We've put Roswell on the map. Everyone used to think we were part of Mexico. On the other hand, it's a circus, all this hype." Mr. Price has not contributed much to the hype, nor has he made a pile from the UFO craze; a genuine and principled believer, he is critical of the way the "other museum" publicizes every new UFO item, however spurious, thereby discrediting the whole incident in the eyes of skeptics. He recently sold his museum for a relatively modest sum, freeing himself up to pursue serious UFO research. But regrets or no regrets, Roswell is going to be the "UFO city" for years to come. Plans for next year's July 4th UFO spectacle are in the works, and some, like Barb Sauerman at the mayor's office, are already thinking ahead to the 100th anniversary in 2047. "Wouldn't it be great," she muses, "if something else landed here before then?" Copyright (c) 1997 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Transmitted: 9/3/97 11:15 AM EDT (L100YVyM)