UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
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   Apr

                          UFO UpDates Mailing List
                                  Apr 1998

  Apr 1:

   Re: DISPATCH # 89 -- the weekly newsletter of - Bruce Maccabee [8]
   Re: Update on Indiana Sightings - Jim Deardorff [14]
   Re: Gender Differences Between Experiencers..... - Skye Turell [51]
   Re: Gender Differences Between Experiencers... - The Duke of Mendoza
   [Peter Brookesmith] [28]
   Cult Leader Guesses Wrong Again... - Stig Agermose [74]
   Re: UFO Public Nuisance Hall of Fame - Final Tally - Bob Shell [8]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #235 - Alfred Lehmberg [74]
   Re: Roswell UFO Theory Applies to Net Security - RSchatte [Rebecca]
   [59]
   'Project Snowflake' - A Discovery Channel Hoax - The 'X' Chronicles &
   'X' Zone [Rob McConnell] [55]
   Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception" - Nick Balaskas [32]
   7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara - Stig Agermose [59]
   Cydonia Imaging Scheduled - Stig Agermose [93]

  Apr 2:

   An April 'Stew-pid' - UFO UpDates - Toronto [10]
   The New Alien Religion? - 'X' Zone Radio Show [Rob McConnell] [215]
   Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception" - "Scott Reed" [20]
   UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing? - Joachim Koch [86]
   Re: 'Project Snowflake' - A Discovery Channel Hoax - Larry Hatch [8]
   Re: Update on Indiana Sightings: witness - Michael Christol [30]
   The Millennium Report - April 1, 1998 - Paul Anderson [44]
   eSufo - April 6th - Mars Face Images - "David Watanabe" [58]
   Conference on Anomalous Phenomena - mike frizzell [8]
   Re: The New Alien Religion? - Jim Deardorff [52]
   Hot Gossip UK (one) - georgina@easynet.co.uk [Georgina Bruni] [343]
   Re: The Millennium Report - April 1, 1998 - - Paul Anderson [21]
   Ufo Cult Moving To Michigan - RGates8254 [Robert Gates] [63]
   Hot Gossip UK (two) - georgina@easynet.co.uk [Georgina Bruni] [149]
   Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception" - Nick Balaskas [24]
   Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara - Nick Balaskas [20]
   'Project Snowflake' - A Discovery Channel Hoax - Skye Turell [5]
   Filer's Files #13 - Majorstar [George A. Filer] [348]

  Apr 3:

   Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception" - Jim Deardorff [11]
   PROJECT-1947, NICAP & Peer Review - " Jerry Cohen" [168]
   Scientists to Analyze New Images of Cydonia - "Yvonne Hedenland" [39]
   Re: UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing? - "Roger R. Prokic" [11]
   Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara - Bob Shell [8]
   Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception" - "Scott Reed" [18]
   Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception" - Jim Deardorff [19]
   Aviation Week's Closed-mind Editors Attack NASA - JJ Mercieca [14]
   PROJECT-1947: 'Rendlesham Unravelled' - James Easton [253]
   Re: PROJECT-1947, NICAP & Peer Review - Jan Aldrich [50]
   Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara - Ufojoe1 [Joe Murgia]
   [18]
   Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception" - "Greg Sandow" [4]
   Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception" - Nick Balaskas [21]
   Nua Blather: Unofficial Religious Appearances - Dave Walsh [164]
   Nasa Clarifies Imaging Plans - Jared Anderson [77]

  Apr 4:

   Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara - RGates8254 [Robert
   Gates] [12]
   Mars Global Surveyor Images - Paul Reischmann [7]
   Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara - Paul Reischmann [10]
   Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception" - "Jerome Clark" [7]
   Counterpoint Chat, 'Danger in the Skies?' - "Yvonne Hedenland" [22]
   Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception" - Nick Balaskas [48]
   MUFON Los Angeles Presents Jim Marrs - DONZON [Donald Waldrop] [39]
   Mars Life Theory Gains Momentum - Stig Agermose [92]
   Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception" - Mark Eastman [9]
   Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception" - Mark Eastman [26]
   Re: Antimatter Power No Longer Science Fiction - Stig Agermose [67]
   Re: UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing? - Edoardo Russo [46]
   Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception" - John Velez [55]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #236 - Alfred Lehmberg [123]
   Yorkshire UK UFO 'Crash' - David Clarke [167]
   Re: UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing? - XianneKei [Rebecca] [4]
   BWW Media Alert 19980404 - BufoCalvin [80]
   Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception" - Mannynan@mail.paulbunyan.net [40]
   Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images [was: 7000 Year - Michael Christol [23]
   Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception" - "Jerome Clark" [28]
   Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images - Jim Deardorff [23]
   Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception" - Jim Deardorff [47]
   Jodrell Bank Telescope To Help In Search For ETs - Stig Agermose [40]

  Apr 5:

   Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception" - The Duke of Mendoza [Peter
   Brookesmith] [69]
   'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real - Skye Turell [35]
   MGS Mars Orbiter Camera Maybe Hit First Target - Stig Agermose [23]
   Re: UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing - Joachim Koch [22]
   Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images - galevy [13]
   Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception" - "Greg Sandow" [104]
   Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception" - "Scott Reed" [22]
   Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #236 - John John [69]
   [UASR]> DSP Satellite Confirmation of the Iranian - "[ UASR ]> Perry"
   [Perry Man] [34]
   Lunascan + Mars Updates: HBO's Moon Miniseries - "Steve Wingate" [117]
   Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images - Paul Reischmann [9]
   Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images - Paul Reischmann [26]
   Re: 'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real - Whitewolf [Paul Whitewolf] [16]
   Re: 'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real - Brian Cuthbertson [9]
   PHENOMENON Issue # 5 - Bob [Bob Tidwell] [390]
   Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception" - "Jerome Clark" [18]
   German "Jets" in World War II - Jan Aldrich [28]
   UK.UFO.NW -IRC- guest Kevin Randle - United Kingdom UFO Network [128]
   The Millennium Report - April 5, 1998 - Paul Anderson [47]
   Re: UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing? - Bruno Mancusi [43]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 14 - Masinaigan [Joseph Trainor] [460]
   George Andersen Contact Address Needed - "AlexField" [Ben Field] [10]
   Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception" - Michael Christol [90]
   Re: UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing? - Edoardo Russo [18]
   Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception" - "Jerome Clark" [10]
   Re: UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing? - "Kenneth J. Becker" [5]

  Apr 6:

   Dr. Mark J. Carlotto to discuss Cydonia - "Yvonne Hedenland" [16]
   Re: 'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real - natural.state@erols.com [Melanie
   Mecca] [27]
   Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception" - The Duke of Mendoza [Peter
   Brookesmith] [54]
   Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images - Bob Shell [3]
   Re: 'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real - RGates8254 [Robert Gates] [33]
   Reminder - UFO show at 8 tonight on UPN - UFO*BC [Dave Pengilly] [8]
   Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images - Bob Shell [13]

  Apr 7:

   Re: Reminder - UFO show at 8 tonight on UPN - Chris Rutkowski [13]
   Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception" - "Jerome Clark" [24]
   Life In A World Frozen In Time For 30 Million Year - Stig Agermose [73]
   Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images - Steven Kaeser [85]
   Why is it...? - Sean Jones [11]
   Cydonia Images Available - Stig Agermose [32]
   Re: 'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real - Brian Cuthbertson [19]
   New JPL Mars Face Images Online - Stig Agermose [18]
   Cydonia image available - Terry Blanton [15]
   Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images - Brian Straight [5]
   Face Punched - Bruce Maccabee [6]
   Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara - RGates8254 [Robert
   Gates] [27]
   Re: "Extraterrestrial Cafe" Will Show Latest UFO - Stig Agermose [18]
   The New Mars Facial Structure - Jim Deardorff [22]
   Re: Vatican Announcement Not Hoax - Skye Turell [16]
   The Story Of The UFO Superhackers - Stig Agermose [380]
   Books for sale - werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson in Toronto] [8]
   The Cydonia thing - Mark Cashman [84]
   IUFORCE: STS-52 - Photos of Anomolous Object - Pat Parrinello [28]
   Re: Gender Differences Between Experiencers - jpolanik@mindspring.com
   [Joseph Poloniak] [89]
   Re: Vatican ET announcement? - Edoardo Russo [28]
   Re: Face Punched - galevy [12]
   NASA pseudo-science - galevy [Gary Alevy] [31]
   Re: Vatican Announcement Not Hoax - Doc in Phoenix [John Barry] [24]
   My Conclusion on the Mars Face - Pat Parrinello [9]
   Re: The New Mars Facial Structure - Mark Cashman [29]
   Re: 'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real - "Keith Woodard" [5]
   Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images - Bob Shell [13]
   Re: Partial Context for Vatican Announcement - "Keith Woodard" [44]
   [M-TRAC - NPAA] Face image - SKvs [Sue Kovios] [23]
   Re: Cydonia image available - Kerry Ferrand [7]
   Re: Vatican Announcement Not Hoax - Edoardo Russo [18]
   Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images - Bob Shell [5]
   Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face - Brian Straight [11]
   Re: Face Punched - Bruce Maccabee [22]
   Re: UFORCE: STS-52 - Photos of Anomolous Object - Bob Shell [6]
   Re: The Cydonia thing - Bruce Maccabee [11]
   Re: The New Mars Facial Structur - Bruce Maccabee [12]
   Re: IUFORCE: STS-52 - Photos of Anomolous Object - Bruce Maccabee [5]
   Re: Face Punched - Steven Kaeser [27]
   Re: The Cydonia thing - "Jerome Clark" [12]
   Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images - entropy@dagda.sunflower.com [Tom
   Genereaux] [7]
   Re: IUFORCE: STS-52 - Photos of Anomolous Object - "Cathy Johnson" [17]
   Re: Cydonia image available - Terry Blanton [15]
   Society for Planetary SETI Research (SPSR) - Press - "Yvonne Hedenland"
   [95]
   Re: Cydonia image available - Bob Shell [3]
   Water Found on Saturn's Moon - TotlResrch [Kal Korff] [22]

  Apr 8:

   Posting Rules - UFO UpDates - Toronto [55]
   Re: Mars Face Report - Bob Shell [26]
   Richard Hoagland - "Brett A. MArtin" [15]
   Re: Face on Mars - Brian Straight [4]
   Re: UFORCE: STS-52 - Photos of Anomolous Object - "Greg Sandow" [2]
   Re: 'Danger In Our Skies: The New UFO Threat' - MB DRUMS [Mark Beecher]
   [12]
   Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism - Ufojoe1 [Joe Murgia] [35]
   Re: The New Mars Facial Structure - Jim Deardorff [33]
   Re: Cydonia image available - Andy Denne [25]
   Re: The Cydonia thing - "Paul Hunter" [34]
   Re: DISPATCH # 90 -- the weekly newsletter of - ParaScope [108]
   Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face - Mike Morton [22]
   Re: 'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real - RGates8254 [Robert Gates] [8]
   Re: [M-TRAC - NPAA] Face image - harald hornung [25]
   'Indiana' Explained... ? - "K. Young" [127]
   Re: Mars Face Report - Chris Rutkowski [14]
   Re: 'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real - Steven Kaeser [8]
   Re: Mars Face Report - Steven Kaeser [14]
   Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism - John [25]
   Re: 'Danger In Our Skies: The New UFO Threat' - Steven Kaeser [5]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #237 - Alfred Lehmberg [61]
   Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face - Bob Shell [9]
   Re: NASA Images Could Solve 'Face' Mystery - Stig Agermose [92]
   NASA's 'Face' Fact Sheet - Stig Agermose [169]
   UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs - Jim Deardorff [28]
   Re: Water Found on Saturn's Moon - Nick Balaskas [13]
   Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic - Stig Agermose [20]
   Mars Face, yes it's there! - Stig Agermose [35]
   Neg Reversal of Mars Images by NASA - Mistake or - Stig Agermose [30]
   Re: Mars Face Report - Bruce Maccabee [16]
   Mars Updates: A Few Comments on Real Science - "Steve Wingate" [201]
   Lunascan: MGS Face Images & The Next Two Passes - Jeff Glickman [68]
   Re: IUFORCE: STS-52 - Photos of Anomolous Object - "Leanne Martin" [9]
   Project 1947: Mr. Balducci, the Vatican, UFOs and - UFO UpDates -
   Toronto [69]

  Apr 9:

   Re: Water Found on Saturn's Moon - Ufojoe1 [Joe Murgia] [12]
   Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face - Ufojoe1 [Joe Murgia] [14]
   Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs - Bruce Maccabee [48]
   Re: Cydonia image available - "Terry J. Blanton" [30]
   Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face - galevy [Gary Alevy] [12]
   Re: Mars Face Report - John [6]
   In light of Mars! - "Todd Andrews" [14]
   Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face - Alfred Lehmberg [22]
   Re: The New Mars Facial Structure - galevy [Gary Alevy] [44]
   Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs - John [18]
   Re: Extraterrestrial Cafe - galevy [Gary Alevy] [14]
   Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism - Andy Denne [26]
   Greer's Back on the Soap Box - Jared Anderson [199]
   Re: 'Danger In Our Skies: The New UFO Threat' - John [10]
   Re: Mars Face Report - Bob Shell [3]
   Re: Face Punched - galevy [Gary Alevy] [63]
   Alien life 'will be found by 2050' - RSchatte [Rebecca] [78]
   Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face - Bob Shell [30]
   Re: Water Found on Saturn's Moon - Ufojoe1 [12]
   Re: Mars Face, yes it's there! - Bob Shell [4]
   Re: Neg Reversal of Mars Images by NASA? - Bob Shell [5]
   The Eyes of Media Upon Us - Doc in Phoenix[John M. Barry] [6]
   Re: Mars Face Report - Bob Shell [9]
   Re: Phil Klass to discuss UFO Abductions - "Yvonne Hedenland" [15]
   Re: The New Mars Facial Structure - Steven Kaeser [33]

  Apr 10:

   Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs - Jim Deardorff [8]
   Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism - Bob Shell [13]
   Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face - "Lloyd Bayliss" [14]
   Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face - Bob Shell [8]
   Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs - Steven Kaeser [29]
   Re: Water Found on Saturn's Moon - Kal K. Korff [TotlResrch@aol.com]
   [35]
   Re: Extraterrestrial Cafe - John Velez [10]
   Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face - Andy Denne [17]
   Re: Cydonia image available - Andy Denne [9]
   Re: Mars Face, yes it's there! - "PHD: Feanturi" [40]
   Re: Mars Face, yes it's there! - "PHD: Feanturi" [75]
   A Few Comments on Real Science - Steven Kaeser [179]
   Tom Porter on #Visitations - Angela Shilling [95]
   Re: Phil Klass to discuss UFO Abductions - Andy Denne [19]
   Re: Cydonia Image Obscured By Clouds - Stig Agermose [59]
   Re: Neg Reversal of Mars Images by NASA? - Stig Agermose [10]
   Hoagland on Art Bell 4-6-98 - Excerpts - "Keith Woodard" [150]
   Father Balducci Interview - Stig Agermose [137]
   Re: Mars Face Report - Bruce Maccabee [4]
   Vast Water Vapor 'Factory' Found in Orion's Sword - UFO UpDates -
   Toronto [19]
   Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs - Bruce Maccabee [18]
   Filer's Files #14 - Majorstar [359]
   Re: The New Mars Facial Structure - Bruce Maccabee [61]
   Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism - Mark Cashman [7]
   Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic - Mark Cashman [6]
   Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism - Mark Cashman [75]
   Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs - Theresa Carlson [56]
   Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs - Mark Cashman [14]
   Re: "Danger in our Skies" and holographs - John [21]
   Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism - John [34]
   Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic - "Roger R. Prokic" [11]
   Re: Phil Klass to discuss UFO Abductions - Henny van der Pluijm [27]
   Re: Pyramids on Mars...? - Angel [Xavier Soler] [18]
   Re: Mars Face, yes it's there! - Bob Shell [23]
   Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face - "Roger R. Prokic" [17]
   Tom Van Flandern on New Cydonia Images - JJ Mercieca [393]
   Re: Neg Reversal of Mars Images by NASA? - Bob Shell [6]

  Apr 11:

   Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic - Bob Shell [8]
   Re: Mars Face Report - Bob Shell [5]
   Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism - Bob Shell [4]
   Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic - galevy [20]
   Re: "Danger in our Skies" and holographs - Bob Shell [16]
   Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic - galevy [Gary Alevy] [5]
   Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face - Ufojoe1 [Joe Murgia] [26]
   Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic - Bob Shell [27]
   Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism - Andy Denne [41]
   Re: Water found on Saturn's Moon - Ufojoe1 [107]
   Re: Tom Van Flandern on new Cydonia images - James Horak [10]
   Re: Extraterrestrial Cafe - Tom Benson [13]
   U.K. Team Discovers 2 New Faint, Distant Objects - "R. Matt Knudson"
   [18]
   Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic - Larry Hatch [16]
   Nua Blather: Pretty Good Friday - Dave Walsh [147]
   Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs - Terry Blanton [17]
   Re: The New Mars Facial Structure - galevy [10]
   Re: Neg Reversal of Mars Images by NASA? - Stig Agermose [2]
   UFOR: Mars Global Surveyor Update - April 9, 1998 - Francisco Lopez
   [94]
   Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception" - Mendoza [Peter Brookesmith] [84]
   Mars Surveyor: Plans For Second Cluster Of - Stig Agermose [35]
   Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic - Karel Bagchus [32]
   Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism - Jim Deardorff [8]
   Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic - Kerry Ferrand [10]
   UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs - Bruce Maccabee [12]
   Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs - Bruce Maccabee [15]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #238 - Alfred Lehmberg [69]
   Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic - Bob Shell [27]
   Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic - Bob Shell [6]
   Re: Water found on Saturn's Moon - Larry Hatch [19]

  Apr 12:

   Yorkshire, UK UFO crash - David Clarke [66]
   Re: Water Found on Saturn's Moon - Kal K. Korff [50]
   The UpDates .Sig - Larry Hatch [22]
   Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception" - "Jerome Clark" [101]
   Re: Neg Reversal of Mars Images by NASA - Stig Agermose [2]
   Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic - Jim Deardorff [60]
   Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs - Theresa [40]
   Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic - galevy [Gary Alevy] [12]
   Re: BWW Media Alert 980412 - BufoCalvin [53]

  Apr 13:

   Re: Water Found on Saturn's Moon - Bob Shell [4]

  Apr 12:

   Strieber On Father Balducci - Stig Agermose [53]

  Apr 13:

   Re: Yorkshire, UK UFO crash - "Jon" [Jonathan Dyton] [18]
   Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs - "Terry J. Blanton"
   [13]
   The Millennium Report - April 12, 1998 - Paul Anderson [30]
   Giant Martian Fossil Strong Evidence Of Life - Stig Agermose [59]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 15 - Masinaigan [Joseph Trainor] [406]
   Director General of the Giza Plateau Suspended? - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [58]
   Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism - Mark Cashman [24]
   Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic - Mark Cashman [22]
   Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs - Bob Shell [8]
   CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS: A Face is a Face..... - AL Cornett [14]
   Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism - Kerry Ferrand [3]
   Re: Rocket Men: The Houston Press - RSchatte [Rebecca] [284]
   Re: Strieber On Father Balducci - John [46]

  Apr 14:

   Re: Cydonianism [was Re: Catholicism vs. - Jim Deardorff [26]
   The Performance - "Ben Field" [Bruce Cornet, Ph.D.] [44]
   Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic - Jim Deardorff [16]
   McDaniel And Strange On New Cydonia Imaging - Stig Agermose [50]
   Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face - Michael Wayne Malone [15]
   Toronto Star: Mars Loses Face With New Photo - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [54]
   'Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel - Stig Agermose [19]
   Plasma Physicist: Oil Shale On Mars - Stig Agermose [136]
   Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic - "Keith Woodard" [29]
   Betty Hill Disavows Modern Abduction Research - Stig Agermose [116]
   Re: Re: The New Mars Facial Structure - Bruce Maccabee [6]
   Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs - Bruce Maccabee [15]
   Re: Strieber On Father Balducci - Bob Shell [9]
   Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic - Bruce Maccabee [23]
   Re: Yorkshire, UK UFO crash - Rob Irving [15]
   Former Canadian PM on UFOs - Nick Balaskas [36]
   Re: The New Mars Facial Structure - Bryan Butcher [8]
   Re: Nua Blather: Pretty Good Friday - glennys mackay [7]
   Re: Cydonianism - Mark Cashman [66]
   Re: Yorkshire, UK UFO crash - Mick Ibbotson [29]
   Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic - Bob Shell [16]
   PROJECT-1947: Rendlesham - Refutation Refuted? - James Easton [62]
   CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS: Rendlesham - slk [Francis Ridge] [31]
   Why Cydonia Image is Only 1024 pixels Wide - UFO UpDates - Toronto [35]
   Re: Former Canadian PM on UFOs - Don Ledger [9]
   Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic - Mark Cashman [23]
   October's UFO Conference In Hong Kong - Stig Agermose [37]
   Report From The "Life In The Universe Conference" - Stig Agermose [99]

  Apr 15:

   Re: Former Canadian PM on UFOs - Nick Balaskas [37]
   Re: Cydonianism - Jim Deardorff [24]
   Saucer Shaped Science Fiction Hall of Fame - Stig Agermose [63]
   Malin: Mars Orbiter Camera And Viking Histograms - Stig Agermose [191]
   Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs - "Terry J. Blanton"
   [22]
   Cydonia 'Swath': Explanation For Difference In Size - UFO UpDates -
   Toronto [32]
   UFOs Cause Power Failures In Argentina - Stig Agermose [37]
   Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs - Bruce Maccabee [27]
   Re: Strieber On Father Balducci - John Velez [39]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #239 - Alfred Lehmberg [51]
   Cydonia Region - Contrast Enhanced Images - Stig Agermose [4]
   Re: Malin: Mars Orbiter Camera And Viking - Bob Shell [8]
   Hoagland on Bell and Cydonia Pictures - "Keith Woodard" [15]
   SPACEWARN Bulletin - Nick Balaskas [14]
   Address Request - Philip Mantle [6]
   Document Request - Philip Mantle [5]
   Re: Cydonianism - Mark Cashman [18]
   Re: Cydonianism - Mark Cashman [18]
   91} part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network - United Kingdom UFO Network
   [487]
   {91} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network - United Kingdom UFO Network
   [438]

  Apr 16:

   Re: Hoagland on Bell and Cydonia Pictures - Bruce Maccabee [6]
   'Santa Claus' mentioned on Moon Mini-Series - Scott Hale [7]
   Re: Betty Hill - "Marigold" [Carol Morres] [8]
   Re: Hoagland on Bell and Cydonia Pictures - Chris Rutkowski [4]
   Re: Document Request - galevy [Gary ALevy] [10]
   Re: - Bruce Maccabee [5]

  Apr 15:

   Re: 91} part 3 - United Kingdom UFO Network - United Kingdom UFO
   Network [259]

  Apr 16:

   {91} part 4 - United Kingdom UFO Network - United Kingdom UFO Network
   [466]
   CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia - Ufojoe1 [Joe Murgia] [42]
   Re: Address Request - SKvs [11]
   Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs - John [26]
   Research Request (Video) - "Paul Hunter" [19]
   More Mars Observations & 'Improbable' Claims - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [167]
   Re: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia - Bob Shell [21]
   NASA to Announce Artificial Structures on Mars?? - "RISKERS/NUFOIA"
   [26]
   Who is Tom Van Flandern? - UFO UpDates - Toronto [73]
   Re: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia - Steven Kaeser [41]
   Re: More Mars Observations & 'Improbable' Claims - Mark Cashman [71]
   Re: Who is Tom Van Flandern? - Bob Shell [11]
   Re: NASA to Announce Artificial Structures on - Bob Shell [4]
   Yorkshire [UK] UFO Crash - MOD revelations - David Clarke [171]
   NASA Denies 'Artifical Structure Report' Pending - xzone@webgate.net
   [Rob McConnell] [22]
   Re: Betty Hill - Mendoza [Peter Brookesmith] [18]

  Apr 17:

   Re: NASA to Announce Artificial Structures on - "Jerome Clark" [10]
   Re: Document Request - Tom Benson [6]
   Re: NASA Denies 'Artifical Structure Report' - Geoff Price [8]
   Sarah McClendon News Release. (Background Info.) - Ted Oliphant III
   [107]
   Yet Another 'Debunker' Outed by Boylan - Doc in Phoenix [122]
   Vatican and ETs - Merely More Boylan BS - Doc in Phoenix [116]
   Re: Lee Shargel rears his ugly head again? - Bob Shell [29]
   Re: 'Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel - Ufojoe1 [Joe Murgia]
   [36]
   Re: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia - Michael Christol [31]
   Lots of Comics & Newspapers - UFO UpDates - Toronto [21]

  Apr 18:

   eSufo - Cydonia "city" images available - "David Watanabe" [29]
   Abductee.net Launches Community Site To Explore ET - Stig Agermose [46]
   NY State MUFON Web Page - RobertC130 [Bob Canino] [20]
   Nua Blather: About that Millennium... - Dave Walsh [175]
   Re: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia - Bob Shell [28]
   Re: Mars, Rorschach Test of the Solar System - Steven Kaeser [28]
   Re: 'Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel - Kal K. Korff [55]
   Re: UK.UFO.NW -IRC- guest Philippe Piet van Putten - United Kingdom UFO
   Network [71]
   Re: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell - galevy [Gary Alevy] [4]
   Re: BWWMA Flash - BufoCalvin [41]
   Re: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia - Alfred Lehmberg [23]
   Re: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia - Ufojoe1 [Joe Murgia] [116]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #240 - Alfred Lehmberg [87]
   Re: Lee Shargel rears his ugly head again - UFO UpDates - Toronto [40]
   Claims of Erosion - Phooey - SKvs [Sue Kovios] [8]
   Re: 'Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel - Alfred Lehmberg [21]
   JPL Hiding Colour, Clear Face & Cydonia Pictures? - UFO UpDates -
   Toronto [26]
   Remote viewing of Cydonia [was CNN's John Holliman] - Mark Cashman [36]
   Ufological Squabbles [was: CNN's John Holliman...] - Randi Bailey [19]
   Re: Ufological Squabbles [Was: CNN's John - "Steven Kaeser" [35]
   Martian building blocks? - Bryan Butcher [32]
   Re: Ufological Squabbles - Alfred Lehmberg [9]
   Re: Remote viewing of Cydonia - Ufojoe1 [Joe Murgia] [86]
   Re: Remote viewing of Cydonia - Skye Turell [38]
   Re: Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel - "Philippe Piet van
   Putten" [9]

  Apr 19:

   Re: On Cydonia [was: CNN's John Holliman...] - Larry Hatch [24]
   Re: Claims of Erosion - Phooey - Bob Shell [2]
   Re: JPL Hiding Colour, Clear Face & Cydonia - Bob Shell [19]
   Re: JPL Hiding Colour, Clear Face & Cydonia - SKvs [8]
   Re: Ufological Squabbles - Bob Shell [10]
   Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs - Theresa [12]
   Re: JPL Hiding Colour, Clear Face & Cydonia - Jim Deardorff [26]
   Re: eSufo - Cydonia "city" images available - Don Ledger [8]
   Re: Ufological Squabbles - "Greg Sandow" [3]
   Re: Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel - Ufojoe1 [Joe Murgia]
   [6]
   BWW Media Alert 19980418 - BufoCalvin [88]

  Apr 20:

   Re: Chat with Stephen Bassett, UFO Lobbyist - "Yvonne Hedenland" [16]
   Re: Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel - JJ Mercieca [7]
   Mars "Ruins"? - Joachim Koch [22]
   New-agey drug-types/conspiracy witnesses [was: - "K. Young" [35]
   PHENOMENON - Issue #6 - Part 1 - Bob Tidwell [351]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 16 - Masinaigan [Joseph Trainor] [436]
   PHENOMENON - Issue 6 - Part 2 - Bob Tidwell [352]
   UpDates Off-line Until Thursday, April 23rd - UFO UpDates - Toronto [4]
   Re: Claims of Erosion - Phooey - Nick Balaskas [24]
   Alien Encounters Magazine To Close - Philip Mantle [18]
   Filer's Files #15 - Majorstar [300]

  Apr 23:

   Re: New-agey drug-types/conspiracy witnesses - John Velez [34]
   Re: Alien Encounters Magazine To Close - Robert Irvine [11]
   Coming to Turin for the Shroud? - Edoardo Russo [13]
   Re: Claims of Erosion - Phooey - Mark Cashman [35]
   Re: Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel - "Diana Botsford" [10]
   Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs - Bruce Maccabee [31]
   Strieber terms Boylan a possible disinformation - Doc in Phoenix [12]
   Re: Alien Encounters Magazine To Close - Philip Mantle [32]
   Video on 1965 Kecksburg UFO Crash Released - Stan Gordon [21]
   Re: NASA to Announce Artificial Structures on Mars - "Roger R. Prokic"
   [10]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #241 - Alfred Lehmberg [70]
   Astronomers Find Evidence of Planet - RSchatte [Rebecca] [99]
   The Millennium Report - April 21, 1998 - Paul Anderson [50]
   Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update - April - Paul Anderson [25]
   Black Triangle UFO - Steve Neeley [55]
   Re: New-agey drug-types/conspiracy witnesses rant - Nemesis [Lawrie
   Williams] [61]
   ICQ UFO Group - #UFO_IRC@ICQ - Floyd [Lloyd WA Cosway] [22]

  Apr 24:

   Chamish's Latest on Israel Crop Circle - "MIKE SPITZER aka, HeNayNei"
   [56]
   Re: NASA to Announce Artificial Structures on Mars - Bob Shell [6]
   Re: Strieber on Boylan - John Velez [18]
   Future Events News Service - Philip Mantle [24]
   CUFORG 1998 UFO Conference Guest Speakers Wanted - Raine & Crow [39]
   Re: What Congress heard at CSETI's UFO/ET Briefings - RGates8254
   [Robert Gates] [32]
   Latest Cydonia photos - Bob Shell [20]
   Report of UFOs as NASA Launches Rockets - "Ben Field" [50]
   Re: Strieber on Boylan - Doc in Phoenix [16]
   Does Munck Apply A Computational Calculus? - Milamo [126]
   Chat with Tony Ortega, Phoenix New Times Journalist - "Yvonne
   Hedenland" [12]
   Filer's Files #16 - Majorstar [George Filer] [360]

  Apr 25:

   JPL 'Kent' Exposed - UFO UpDates - Toronto [116]
   BWW Media Alert 19980424 - BufoCalvin [65]
   Jacques Poulet's 'The Fortean Files 1' CD ROM - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [20]
   UK Conference - 'UFOs - The Global Evidence' - Tony Spurrier [13]
   Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs - Theresa [38]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #242 - Alfred Lehmberg [60]
   Re: Does Munck Apply A Computational Calculus? - David Gullick [22]
   Re: JPL 'Kent' Exposed - Larry Hatch [33]
   Re: JPL 'Kent' Exposed - Ralf Zeigermann [23]
   Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs - "Roger R. Prokic" [9]

  Apr 26:

   Re: New-agey drug-types & Kent Uncovered - SKvs [Sue Kovios] [17]
   Re: JPL 'Kent' Exposed - UFOLAWYER1 [9]
   50 People Witness 3 UFOs Over San Bernadino, CA - "Stefan Duncan" [2]
   Chat with Clifford Stone, Author/Retired Army - "Yvonne Hedenland" [17]
   Re: JPL Hiding Colour, Clear Face & Cydonia - Sean Jones [16]
   Re: Latest Cydonia photos - Pedro Cunha [29]
   Re: JPL 'Kent' Exposed - RGates8254 [Robert Gates] [25]
   Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs - Jean van Gemert [11]
   Re: Latest Cydonia photos - Bob Shell [14]
   Divers Find World's Oldest Building - "Brian Straight" [69]
   Any More News Regarding Roswell? [was: JPL 'Kent' - KRandle993 [Kevin
   Randle] [24]
   Current-Encouinters: US Airforce's Bad Rap in - slk [Francis Ridge]
   [26]
   Re: 50 People Witness 3 UFOs Over San Bernadino, CA - John Hayes [17]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 17 - Masinaigan [505]
   Re: Any More News Regarding Roswell? - KRandle993 [62]
   Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs - John Velez [17]
   The Armchair Ufologist - Issue 3 - Mike Wootten [1155]
   UK.UFO.NW -IRC- guest James Bond Johnson - United Kingdom UFO Network
   [127]

  Apr 27:

   Re: Divers Find World's Oldest Building - RGates8254 [10]
   Re: Any More News Regarding Roswell? - James Easton [35]
   Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs - Mark Cashman [27]
   Complex New Zealand Crop Circle Made for TV - SKvs [Sue Kovios] [4]
   Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs - Bruce Maccabee [6]
   Re: Divers Find World's Oldest Building - Andy Denne [14]
   Re: Current-Encouinters: US Airforce's Bad Rap in - Bruce Maccabee [2]
   CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS: Chernobyl - slk [Francis Ridge] [43]
   Fylingdales UFO 'Confirmed Allegedly Bogus'! - Graham William Birdsall
   [34]
   Re: Divers Find World's Oldest Building - Brian Straight [11]
   Re: Divers Find World's Oldest Building - RGates8254 [Robert Gates]
   [25]
   RAF tracks UFOs on Radar - David Clarke [66]
   Re: Any More News Regarding Roswell? - KRandle993 [Kevin Randle] [24]
   Latest Mars Photos Analysis - "Stefan Duncan" [7]
   24,000 mph UFO - Philip Mantle [86]
   Lunar Anomalies - Philip Mantle [11]
   Re: Divers Find World's Oldest Building - Don Ledger [12]
   UFO Magazine [US] - Steven Kaeser [69]
   Re: Divers Find World's Oldest Building - Terry Blanton [8]
   UFOs Abductions = Computer Virus? - Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo [48]
   Re: Any More News Regarding Roswell? - KRandle993 [Kevin Randle] [8]
   Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs - Don Ledger [11]

  Apr 28:

   School Project On Unexplained Mysteries - [Marie] [12]
   Re: RAF Tracks UFOs On Radar - eotl@west.net [Jeff Rense] [3]
   Re: 24,000 mph UFO - "Serge Salvaille" [8]
   BAR 199804 - BufoCalvin [160]
   Antelope Valley-Palmdale or Lancaster? - "duane foster" [5]
   UFO 'Wobble' [was: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies'...] - "Leanne Martin"
   [19]
   Re: 24,000 mph UFO - John Heptonstall [31]
   New Free Report To Updates Subscribers - "Matthews" [Tim Matthews] [8]
   Re: UFO Magazine [US] - RGates8254 [Robert Gates] [5]
   Philip Burden Unveiled - David Clarke [44]
   DISPATCH # 93 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope - ParaScope [115]

  Apr 29:

   XPI/AUFON Films Triangular Shaped UFO in N.C. - "Stefan Duncan" [30]
   The UFO Times, Texas Edition - Michael Harman [6]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #243 - Alfred Lehmberg [81]
   Re: UFO-related Audio Files? - Andy Denne [9]
   Re: eSufo - Cydonia "city" images available - Dave Pigott [6]
   Re: UFO 'Wobble' - Larry Hatch [17]

  Apr 30:

   Re: UK Conference - 'UFOs - The Global Evidence' - Tony Spurrier [15]
   911 UFO Report W/Radar Verification - Stig Agermose [18]
   Books -- Some New, Some Not-so-new - RSchatte [Rebecca] [43]
   Re: Any More News Regarding Roswell? - James Easton [78]
   Satellites To Get Pelted Next Fall - Jared Anderson [56]
   Re: UFO 'Wobble' - Bruce Maccabee [4]
   Carp Ontario 'Exposed' - The 'Truth' Behind The - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [32]
   Rendlesham Unravelled -NOT - georgina@easynet.co.uk [Georgina Bruni]
   [130]
   Question About Observed Triangular Shaped UFO - "Stefan Duncan" [20]
   Re: RAF Tracks 24,000MPH UFO - Graham William Birdsall [69]
   Temporal Doorway UFO Material for May - Mark Cashman [27]
   Re: UFO 'Wobble' - Alfred Lehmberg [8]
   BUFORA WATCH 2 - Mike Wootten [49]
   Filer's Files #17-1998 - Majorstar [298]
   Re: Question About Observed Triangular Shaped UFO - "Donnie W. Shevlin"
   [10]
   Re: Carp Ontario 'Exposed'..... - Michael Christol [58]
   A New Study (Follow Up to The Brookings Institute - Francisco Lopez
   [106]
   'Best Question' Contest - mataghe@mint.net [Kathy B. Grant] [21]

   The number enclosed in brackets is the number of lines of new text in





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 1

                Re: DISPATCH # 89 -- the weekly newsletter of

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 23:27:48 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 09:28:26 -0500
Subject: Re: DISPATCH # 89 -- the weekly newsletter of

THE REAL X FILES

>In The X-Files, FBI Special Agents Fox Mulder and Dana Scully
>pursue all sorts of UFO abductions, government conspiracies and
>every sort of paranormal freakiness that the show's writers can
>imagine. While the X-Files is fiction, real-life FBI agents spent
>a lot of time chasing UFOs across the country, especially in the
>early stages of the modern UFO era, from 1947 to the mid-1950s.
>And like Mulder and Scully, the FBI normally does not investigate
>UFOs and paranormal events unless there is a perception of crime.
>And not just ANY crime! J. Antonio Huneeus has the documents, and
>brings us a fascinating study of the FBI's paranormal excursions
>during the early years of the "flying saucer" era.

I'm sure I mentioned this before, by THE UFO-FBI CONNECTION/the
REAL X files is a manuscript I have been selling privately (no
publisher yet) which tells the story' of FBI involvement and also
presents information and analysis on the "X files" of Air Force
Intelligence and the CIA.   After reading this you will KNOW that
the Air \ Force had convincing evidence and lied to the American
people.






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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 1

                       Re: Update on Indiana Sightings

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 18:34:40 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 09:25:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Update on Indiana Sightings

>Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 10:01:53 -0800
>From: "Kenny Young" <task@fuse.net>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Update on Indiana Sightings: witness descriptions

>Update on Indiana Sightings:

>...
>The red lights were estimated to be 2000 feet up in the air and
>were visible for over a minute.  On the Thursday sighting, the
>witness said the objects started to bank and turn away as if
>leaving, still seemingly attached to one permanent object.  He
>said that the objects seemed to 'go upward' in unison. "I don't
>know how else to say it, they went up," he commented.

>"There was SO much air traffic, I just couldn't believe that
>there were no pilots who didn't see anything.  It was about rush
>hour for air traffic into Evansville, and these things were
>flying right into the flight path and corridor of the air
>traffic."

Hello Kenny,

It's interesting to keep track of sightings of this nature --
they've occurred plenty of times before -- in which the UFO was
visible to a few observers situated in one place but seemingly
invisible to many others in the general area.  Does it make sense
-- if UFOs can render themselves invisible (suddenly disappear,
etc.), or if they normally operate in that mode, that they could
even top this?  That is, some of them can perhaps make themselves
visible just to a few people in one small area while staying
invisible to everyone else.

On the other hand, if a lot of pilots see a UFO, a lot of pilots
can stay quiet about it!

>The witness said that what he saw was not likely to be flares,
>because there was no trail or movement.  He said nothing fell to
>the ground or moved downward. "If these were flares, wouldn't
>they be falling?

Thanks for having posted the Indiana sightings.

   Jim Deardorff







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   Apr > Apr 1

              Re: Gender Differences Between Experiencers.....

From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 16:17:16 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 09:21:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Gender Differences Between Experiencers.....

> From: jpolanik@mindspring.com [Joseph Polanik]
> To: updates@globalserve.net Date:
> Tue, 31 Mar 1998 06:54:52 -0500
> Subject: [No Subject]

> Researcher John Rimmer wrote in 'The Evidence for Alien Abductions', p. 73-4.
:

> If we look at those cases where women have been abducted alone,
> or in the company of other women ... we find a distinct tendency
> towards the phenomenon selecting women who are divorced,
> separated or undergoing some sort of marital or sexual crisis.

This means that women who are not currently living with a man in the
household are likely to be abducted only by themselves or in the
company of other women (in other words, not along with a man).  Gee,
that's deep.


> Besides the 'The Addreasson Affair',

If I remember Betty Andreasson Luca's experience timeline
correctly, if you had interviewed her a year or so prior to the
abduction experience detailed in the first book, you would have
found that she WAS married.  Since abductions tend to be a
lifelong phenomenon, and certainly Betty has had many experiences
since the first one, then it's likely that she was having
unrecalled experiences during the time period of his first
marriage.  Further, she is now remarried and continues to have
experiences, some involving her husband too, if memory serves.
Therefore this hypothesis regarding Betty is all meaningless.

> three popular American books
> on abductions ('Missing Time' by Budd Hopkins; 'Abducted!' by
> Coral and Jim Lorenzen; and 'Direct Encounters' by Judith and
> Alan Gansberg) give details of eleven women who have described
> abduction experiences.

> ... of the eleven women described in these cases, it can be seen
> that four are divorcees, one a widow, and two living in a lesbian
> relationship. Only two out of the eleven appear to have been
> married and living with their husbands at the time of the
> incidents.

Which means, we might ask the authors of those books why they
didn't include more cases involving married hetero couples.  This
selection skew is generated by the authors and is not
representative of the overall demographics of abductees.

However, it does seem that more female abductees are willing to
come forward.  I suspect the reason you see this skew is because
a) men are less willing to report these kinds of experiences
because it is more acceptable for paranormal, psychic and "weird"
experiences to be discussed by women, for obvious cultural
reasons; and b) the man in a married woman's life is probably
less willing to have HER come forward because of how that might
effect him.  At least this was the dynamic through the 1980's
(and perhaps continues to this day in many households).

However, in the early- to mid-90's there was a startling upsurge
of personal experience abduction books written by women.  Leah
Haley, Michelle LaVigne, Katharina Wilson, and Karla Turner come
immediately to mind.  The majority of these women were all
married, and this is what I would expect to see, based on my own
circle of female abductee contacts, most of whom are married, or
have been married during some phases of their lives.

> In the past, many UFO researchers have neglected to collect
> personal details of the background of witnesses, feeling that
> this was not relevant to the subject they were studying. This may
> be understandable, but it assumes that the UFO phenomenon is
> external to the witness and quite unconnected with their own
> personal circumstances. This is far from being proven and there
> is strong evidence to suggest the the UFO mystery is very much
> tied up with the individuals who experience it.

To do this right would require a massive database.  I don't think
anyone's got the funds to do so.  But realize that so far there
appears to be NO demographic stereotype for abductees and we
might never find an obvious "marker."

> Does anyone have further information about possible gender
> differences between experiencers and non-experiencers (or is it
> 'experience reporters' and 'experience non-reporters')?

Again, no one can have these numbers without a serious study
dedicated to that purpose.  But all the hypotheses described
above are vacuous.

Of course, conducting research of this kind is next to impossible
in today's environment where many abductees don't know for sure
that they are and everyone else is trying like hell to
rationalize the entire phenomenon out of existence.

The proposed profile of the female abductee as maladjusted,
sexually troubled and generally crisis-ridden, says a
considerable amount about the person putting forth the hypothesis
and absolutely nothing about the abductees.

--

Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
ICQ Pager 6797092





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   Apr > Apr 1

               Re: Gender Differences Between Experiencers...

From: The Duke of Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith]
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 23:29:38 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 09:59:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Gender Differences Between Experiencers...


With the compliments of the Duke of Mendoza:

>Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 14:27:44 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Marie Ivey <jmi@aretha.jax.org>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Gender Differences
  Between Experiencers And Non-experiencers

>What percentage of the female population is divorced, separated
>or undergoing some sort of marital or sexual crisis?  A better
>question might be, what women don't fall into these catagories?
>Most of the women in these catagories would likely be sleeping
>alone and more vulnerable.

You might ask the same questions about men. And is there any
reason why *men* sleeping alone should be considered less
vulnerable to (putative) noxious alien embraces than women? I'd
be inclined to think that the reasons why women *appear* to be
more numerous among *reported* abductees has something to do with
(a) the interests of the mostly male investigators and (b) the
way women are invited to perceive themselves in society at
large.

Apart from such questions, John Rimmer published his book in
1984. He was working from a much smaller sample of reported cases
than he would be if undertaking the same exercise today. (Tho'
apart from that caveat I think his book remains one of the best
studies of the phenomenon yet published.)

If you regard the dreaded Roper Poll as an index not of
abductees, but of whom abductologists would regard as abductees,
then it may be useful in gauging any gender bias for the future.

As there's no centrally-gathered, reliable set of statistics on
abduction reports, we are all guessing a bit now. David Jacobs
likes to use the third-person feminine pronoun when discussing
abductees. But then (in "The Threat") he is also strangely
interested in kinky alien-human sado-masochistic sex scenes, so
perhaps he's not entirely to be trusted. Mmmm. And maybe for
other reasons too.

Yrs &c
Phlebitis D. Megatherium
Busy Bee








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   Apr > Apr 1

                     Cult Leader Guesses Wrong Again...

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 06:41:30 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 18:05:14 -0500
Subject: Cult Leader Guesses Wrong Again...

AFP via the Nando Times. URL:

http://www2.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/nation/033198/nation4_2262_noframes.h
tml

*******


Cult leader guesses wrong again: God a no-show in Texas


Copyright =A91998 Nando.net
Copyright =A91998 Agence France-Presse


GARLAND, Texas (March 31, 1998 4:13 p.m. EST
http://www.nando.net) - God failed once again to materialize in
Garland, Texas, Tuesday as prophesied by Taiwan cult leader Chen
Hon-Ming, who quickly changed his prediction.

Instead of witnessing a divine manifestation, said the
silver-haired 42-year-old former college professor, everyone
present had become God at 10 a. m.

"You yourself are Gods," Chen told the 60 cult members, 80
journalists, many from the Far East, and some 20 neighbors at a
two-hour event in front of his house in this quiet Dallas
suburb.

Police had cordoned off the street, allowing only accredited
journalists to enter, including two people dressed as aliens sent
by a Dallas rock radio station.

"P.T. Barnum couldn't put together a carnival this fast," said
Dick Beardsley, 81, a neighbor who complained to Garland
authorities about the disruption to the street he said the cult
created.

The UFO cult leader had repeatedly prophesied that on March 31,
God would appear in Chen's form, clone himself 100,000 times and
shake hands with everyone present.

When God (who had also failed to show up for a Chen-predicted
Channel 18 live broadcast at midnight March 24) did not oblige,
Chen asked each person present to shake his own hands.

And without missing a beat, Chen launched into a host of new
predictions, announcing that his group was leaving Wednesday for
Buffalo, New York, to carry on God's work in the Great Lakes
region.

Chen warned people not to eat meat or mistreat their automobiles.
He said a non-vegetarian diet would lead to nightmares in which
the consumed animal would appear.

Chen warned drivers that if they abused their Chevrolet it could
run them over while they lay asleep.

"If you eat the buttocks of a chicken, you will have a pain in
the ass," Chen said, adding that eating meat would lead to
diarrhea, indigestion and decrepitude.

He repeated his prediction that China and Taiwan would go to war
in January 1999, leading to a nuclear holocaust. (The populations
of the warring countries would be rescued by God in a flying
saucer and shuttled to Gary, Indiana.)

There was no outward disenchantment from his followers, who were
wearing their habitual white sweatshirts and pants and straw
cowboy hats. Lin Hung-chih, 38, who left behind a veterinary
practice in Taiwan, said some followers were indeed disappointed,
but he and his wife were not.

"It was a beautiful experience," said Lin, who admitted he had
expected God to appear in Chen's form.

"Some are disappointed. I am not," Lin said.

Lin was among the 30 or so followers who bought houses in Garland
late last year. Although they were believers, Lin said he and his
wife were leaving the group and moving to Vancouver because their
U.S. tourist visas were running out and they had permission to
immigrate to Canada.

Local banker Walter Hsu said about one-third of the cult were
heading back to Taiwan, and would sell or rent the houses they
had bought in Garland.

The group -- formally called the God and Buddha Salvation
Foundation, though members refer to themselves as followers of
"Jen Dao," the True Way -- had selected Garland for their home
because the name sounded to those from Taiwan like "Godland,"
according to Chen.

Garland police lieutenant Don Martin said that the costs of
handling the media and the cult since December totalled $100,000.


"It's quite strange, to say the least, it's our first experience
dealing with such a multitude of media. Let's wish this happens
somewhere else next."


Copyright =A91998 Nando.net

Do you have some *feedback for the Nando Times staff?






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   Apr > Apr 1

             Re: UFO Public Nuisance Hall of Fame - Final Tally

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 07:38:45 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 19:11:41 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Public Nuisance Hall of Fame - Final Tally

>Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 20:44:49 -0500
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO Public Nuisance Hall of Fame - Final Tally

>Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 19:20:30 +0100
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: RE-UFO Public Nuisance Hall of Fame - Final Tally

>>Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 04:27:11 -0800
>>From: "Charles T. Oliphant III" <alkahest@slip.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: UFO Public Nuisance Hall of Fame (FINAL TALLY)

>>THE UFO PUBLIC NUISANCE HALL OF FAME is a JOKE!

>Can I start a list of those not nominated?

>I'm feeling a little left out here as must many on this list,
>for example I did'nt see Kevin Randle or Paul Devereaux or even the
>passionate pastor of the patter he honourable Duke Mendoza. <G>
>Not that I would even dare suggest that I am in the same league as
>these "big" names. (How dare I even add my name in the same sentance)
>but there must be many _disreputable_ <g> investigators/researchers/
>ufologists who might feel a litle bit peeved cause they was left out.

>---
>        Life is but a dream, death is the only reality.
>                       Sean Jones

Sean,

Those people left out should have done as I did and nominated
themselves!  And then fought hard for inclusion when rejected
by Mr. Oliphant by proving their contribution to the disreputable
reputation of ufology.

If they're such wimps that they did not fight for what was
rightfully theirs, they deserve to be left out!

Bob








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   Apr > Apr 1

                            Alfred's Odd Ode #235

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 05:30:03 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 19:00:53 -0500
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #235

Apology to MW #235 (For March 31, 1998)

L. Moulton Howe? I'd thought she was heavy. By that I mean plump,
ponderous -- weighty. I'd thought she was mannish, had gained *too much*
weight -- since beauty queen days she had emptied some plates <g>. Her
butterball picture preceded her lecture, I'd thought her an endomorph --
too fond French confecture. And what's wrong with that -- well, not a
damn thing; it's preferred is the point, it's a way I can _think_.

Oh don't get me wrong -- I'm making no judgement. (I fight it myself --
I'm as fat as da' gub'mint) It's just that it's better to hear the full
message unfiltered by beauty's unwelcome advantage. Equations =85 complex
and detailed enough for motives inflicted to shake it all up =85  I don't
want her to thrill me -- I just want her to _share_ all her travels,
conclusions, and what she's found there. I don't want a romance, or a
man/woman thing, just *mind* to a *mind* is the song I would sing. I
_wanted_ her portly, to give her _words_ weight; all prettiness is
_suspect_, it changes common fate.

She'd been just a voice, and I'd heard its expression; its concern, its
good sense -- its truthful connection. She was honest, and forthright --
_brave_ to bring light in a darkness we're facing -- we near the same
plight. Our world is dying, her words are like tears; she clearly
contends valid reasons for fear! The lungs of our planet are burning up
daily, the fish are expiring, she points it up plainly! Conspiracy's
real, and it gushes from founts! Enigma's come calling -- anomaly mounts!

'Twas then that we met, and I've got to be truthful =85 transcends the
ethereal; good Christ, she is beautiful! She was standing, alone, in
front of the lift as I turned the sharp corner -- struck dumb and bereft!

I held out my hand and tried to say something, God knows what came out, I
felt speechless, presumptive. See what I mean? Beauty is tyranny! I had
questions to ask, but I'd lost my epiphany!

"You are Ms. Howe," my question a statement, she said, "why, ah=85yes." And
her smile was radiant. Her gown was so light, and it moved in Gulf Breeze
as we walked to the lift (I was weak in the knees). I'm fifty years old,
with a seasoned immunity to the ways of the flesh, and our shallow
community. But I was swept up in the scent of her clothes, the wave in
her hair -- her pedicured toes. My mind was in overdrive, and I sucked up
her detail, those alien little eyebrows, the constant question they
entail. Then the way she looks right in you, like your secrets she's laid
bare; I felt the need to cover up, ashamed what she'd find there. . .

And I'm unimpressed by general officers! I bow to few women, no
strutting, proud man -- but something about this Ms. Howe is quite
different, and it went _way_ past her beauty; can I make you understand?

She was on two, and I was on four; we've one floor together, then she's
out the door. The time that was spent in the short little trip I'll
remember a while (it went too damn quick).

I thanked her for her courage, and I gushed upon her book -- would she
autograph it please, and she said she surely would. And then she was
gone, and the doors had rolled closed -- Linda Howe's a phat treasure
<g>, a flower -- a rose.


Lehmberg@snowhill.com

She really is incredibly beautiful, and I would just as soon it not get
in the way. On anyone else her beauty would be an unwelcome distraction.
She's the kind of person; however, that makes her physical appearance
fade in the listener's appreciation of what she has to say. And, she has
_plenty_ to say.

I have to make an effort to be *nice* to unusually pretty people -- by
any stripe of prettiness (charisma unsettles me).  I suppose it's
because, I feel, many of them are so used to deferential treatment, they
have (most of them) lost the capacity to appreciate it. Ms. Howe is
certainly attractive enough for me to dismiss, out of hand <g>. But for
her unusual courage, evidence of putting herself in harm's way, and
obvious uncontrived and (cleanly healthy) passion for her subject, I
would most likely not believe a word she has to say <g>. But I _do_
believe her, share her concern for an abused Earth (the only home we've
currently got), and support, in a material way, her ongoing investigation
into that which should be of interest to every one of us.

Gods speed and cleverness, Linda Howe. It's apparent you're one of the
few that's as pretty on the inside as you most certainly are on the
outside. Lovely, but _still_ a minor god in my personal pantheon, and,
currently, "reporting my skies." <g>.


--
Explore the Alien View?

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake.







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   Apr > Apr 1

               Re: Roswell UFO Theory Applies to Net Security

From: RSchatte <RSchatte@aol.com> [Rebecca]
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 17:39:12 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 19:29:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Roswell UFO Theory Applies to Net Security

From: AOL News <AOLNews@aol.com>
Subject: Roswell UFO Theory Applies to Net Security Outbreaks,...
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:26:54 EST

Roswell UFO Theory Applies to Net Security Outbreaks, According to Integralis

KIRKLAND, Wash., April 1 /PRNewswire/ -- Integralis, Inc., makers
of the leading content security product MIMEsweeper, today
produced conclusive evidence linking the escalation of network
security breaches with extra-terrestrial activity.  The aliens
responsible for the outbreak of computer viruses, malicious
codes, and email-related legal battles were positively identified
as the same out-of-this-world crew discovered in Roswell, New
Mexico in 1947.  The aliens are being held for questioning, but
have refused to comment at the counsel of their intergalactic
attorney.

Of course, this is where we say, "April Fools!"  While content
security is definitely a priority issue for IT, the pressing need
for it is probably not the result of otherworldly beings.

The REAL news:  Integralis today announced the completion of a
comprehensive guide that gives IT managers A-to-Z guidance on
content security issues.  The encyclopedic Guide to Content
Security is a passport to understanding the latest threats that
companies face from email and the Internet -- and how to stop
them.

"This guide is a boon to systems administrators," said Victor
Woodward, VP of business development.  "Increasingly, companies
are facing security threats that are not addressed by their
firewall -- from the loss of proprietary information via the
email system to multi-million dollar lawsuits based on
inappropriate email to malicious Java or ActiveX codes on the
Web.  These are threats posed by email and Internet content, and
the solution is content security."

The guide provides definitions, explanations and solutions around
content security in an easy-to-use alphabetical format.
Companies can receive a free copy of the guide by contacting
Kimberly Pepper, marketing communications manager, at
425-889-4724, ext. 21 or via email kim.pepper@us.integralis.com.

About Integralis

Integralis, Inc., based in Kirkland, Washington, is the leading
supplier of Internet content security software and email gateway
software.

MIMEsweeper(TM), first shipped in 1995, was the original product
to scan email and attachments for viruses and macro viruses, and
has since become a complete content security solution that
monitors and provides control over email, Web and other Internet
and Intranet communications.

Integralis has important marketing and OEM agreements with
companies such as CheckPoint, Raptor, TIS, IBM, International
Messaging Associates, Command Software, Dr. Solomons and much
more.  Integralis has offices in the United States, UK, France,
Germany and Australia.  MIMEsweeper is sold direct and through a
select reseller channel made up of VARs, system integrators and
Internet service providers.  For additional information, call
800-982-6109 or visit the Web site at www.mimesweeper.com.

SOURCE  Integralis, Inc.

CO:  Integralis, Inc.

ST:  Washington, New Mexico

IN:  CPR MLM

SU:  PDT

04/01/98 08:22 EST http://www.prnewswire.com





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   Apr > Apr 1

               'Project Snowflake' - A Discovery Channel Hoax

From: xzone@webgate.net (The 'X' Chronicles & 'X' Zone) [Rob McConnell]
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:49:17 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 19:22:31 -0500
Subject: 'Project Snowflake' - A Discovery Channel Hoax


For Immediate Release
Wednesday, April 1, 1998
NR 98-12

UFO CONSPIRACY EXISTS ACCORDING TO EXN POLL OF CANADIANS "Project
Snowflake" Revealed as April Fool's Internet Stunt

In the spirit of April Fool's day, the staff at Discovery
Channel's EXN.ca Web site revealed today that they had mixed fact
with fiction to create "Project Snowflake", an Internet stunt
designed to coincide with the re-launch of the award-winning
science site.  In conducting the stunt, they also learned a
surprising fact:  74% of Canadians polled believe that the
Government is hiding UFO technology.

Since March 27th, thousands of Canadians have been drawn to the
EXN.ca site <http://www.exn.ca/> to follow the saga of "Project
Snowflake", a fictitious story detailing an alleged top secret
flying saucer program operating in the 1970's near Gilton,
Alberta - a town that doesn't exist.

EXN.ca developed the ruse based on Canada's 40-year aerospace
history which saw significant advances in each decade since the
1950's, a decade that delivered the Avro Arrow, the most advanced
fighter jet of its time.  The 1960's saw the launch of the first
Canadian satellite - the Alouette - and the 1980's introduced the
world to Canadarm, the pride of the country.

Since the 1970's saw no real breakthroughs in the Canadian
aerospace industry, EXN.ca created "Project Snowflake" to fill
the gap, spinning a five-day tale of intrigue and scientific
discovery, complete with photos and accounts from local farmers
describing strange lights in the night sky, mysterious gouges in
their fields, and unusual tremors that shook metal objects.

"Project Snowflake gave us the opportunity to demonstrate how
daily elements that we feature on our Web site include the very
latest news in science, technology, and adventure," says Jeffrey
Elliott, managing director of NetStar Interactive.  "EXN.ca is a
vital companion to our flagship science series @discovery.ca, and
we wanted to raise awareness with our audience that the site
enhances the Discovery experience.  Our goal was also to show
that science can be fun and, judging by the great response that
we've had to Project Snowflake, including selection as Yahoo!
Canada's Pick of the Week, I think we've proved the point," he
added.

During the stunt, visitors to the site were polled.  The results
are remarkable:
     *  63% of respondents believe that UFOs exist
     *  63% think that UFO technology exists on Earth
     *  74% believe that the Government is hiding UFO technology

EXN.ca, free of cost to anyone with Internet access, is a
dedicated science World Wide Web site with a unique identity and
original content.  A service of the Discovery Channel Canada, it
originally launched Oct. 31, 1996, with an ambitious plan to
develop Canada's source for science news and content on the
Internet.  Currently, EXN.ca serves 145,000 visitors each month
and recently garnered a Top-5 rating from WEB Magazine, alongside
other notable science sites run by the Smithsonian Institution
and Scientific American.

- END -








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                      Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:31:39 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 19:24:07 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote:

> From: "Keith M. King" <alien2@sound.net>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 06:44:32 +0000
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"


> > From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
> > To: updates@globalserve.net
> > Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 02:43:26 +0100
> > Subject: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

> > >From Michigan Live. URL:

> > http://www.mlive.com/kooks/stories/19970527rapture.html

> > UFOs Demonic Harbingers of The End

> > Some think mass landings of UFOs around the year 2000 will soon bring
> > friendly Space Brothers who will save humanity and usher in a New Age
> > of spiritual enlightenment. But millennial doomsayers at Watcher
> > Ministries in Missoula, Montana say that this story just isn't true:
> > instead, it's what the aliens would like us to believe. It's no less
> > than an "Angelic Conspiracy and End-Times Deception."

> Most of this is pure hogwash.   There are no scriptural
> precedents for these allegations.  Year 2000 mass landings??
> What is that?  We shouldnt use scripture to support
> any and all ideas or theories we care to spout.....thats
> called "pretext"  Keep all Scripture in the context
> in which it was written...

> Keith M. King
> M. King Studies

Hi Keith,

By coincidence I was introduced to the Watcher Ministries web
site by my friend Chris, a week or so ago, who wanted my opinion.
 I made hardcopies of everything they had and took them home to
read more closely.  I regret that I wasted so much paper for so
little in substance.

Having said that, I would not go to the same extreme as you do
and say that one "...shouldn't use scripture to support any and
all ideas or theories...".  Any authoritive and high regarded
book or work of reference, including the Bible, should be used.
Although I may not agree (or in some cases understand) what
Zecharia Sitchin and others have to say about UFOs who use the
Bible and other historical works as their sources of information,
I think you would agree that their expert opinions should not be
suppressed or censored in any way.

If you read your Bible carefully you will discover that a large
part of it does involves predictions, including many which are
identified as "end time" predictions.  It also has some of the
earliest accounts of UFOs on record.  What do you mean then by
"Keep all Scripture in the context in which it was written."?
Except for these "end time" predictions (we are not there just
yet) the Bible has also been shown to have an unprecedented 100%
accuracy with regard to fulfilled prophecies, at least according
to The Learning Channel and some more reliable sources.

With regards to the Watcher Ministries material, you say that
"Most of this is pure hogwash.".  Please share with us which
material do you feel is not hogwash and your reasons why?

As for the year 2000 mass landings, from what I have been reading
in UFO UpDates recently, I think 1998 is the year.  At least
that's my prediction. ;)

Nick Balaskas










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   Apr > Apr 1

                  7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 04:40:26 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 22:13:29 -0500
Subject: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara

From the Nando Times. URL:

http://www.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/health/040198/health6_4075_noframes.html

*******


Sahara astronomical site older than Stonehenge


Copyright =A91998 Nando.net
Copyright =A91998 The Associated Press


NEW YORK (April 1, 1998 3:07 p.m. EST http://www.nando.net) --
Researchers have found a complex of slabs and stones in the Sahara
Desert that might be the oldest known monument built with astronomical
considerations in mind -- far older than England's Stonehenge.

It was constructed by nomadic cattle-herders as much as 7,000 years ago
in southern Egypt, and probably was intended for rituals rather than
astronomical observations, said J. McKim Malville of the University of
Colorado at Boulder.

An expert in ancient astronomy said that it would be among the oldest
astronomical monuments known, but that the ages of such monuments are
so uncertain it's impossible to know if the Egyptian complex is the
oldest. He also said the study presents suggestive evidence, but not
proof, for astronomical design.

Malville, an astrophysics professor, describes the stone complex in
Thursday's issue of the journal Nature with anthropologist Fred Wendorf
of Southern Methodist University in Dallas and other researchers. The
monument was discovered over several years of field work ending in 1997.

Stonehenge was first used about 5,000 years ago and gained some of its
current stones about 4,000 years ago. The stones indicate the points of
midsummer sunrise and midwinter sunset, but nobody knows just what
people used Stonehenge for.

The Egyptian stone complex, which isn't circular like Stonehenge, is
spread over an area 1.8 miles by three-quarters of a mile. It includes
10 slabs some 9 feet high, 30 rock-lined ovals, nine burial sites for
cows, each under a pile of 40 to 50 rocks weighing up to 200 or 300
pounds apiece, and a "calendar circle" of stones.

Many of these features line up in five radiating lines, one of them
running east-west.

The calendar circle is a 12-foot-wide arrangement of slabs about 18
inches long, most of them lying down. Two pairs of upright stones stand
directly across the circle from each other, defining a view that would
have displayed sunrise at the summer solstice, the researchers said.

That would be an important day to the cattle-herders, because summer is
when monsoon rains would begin, Wendorf said. But the circle wouldn't
have been a very accurate indicator of when the solstice was occurring.
It was "more symbolic than practical," Malville said.

The circle also contains two other pairs of standing stones that
defined a north-south view.

Charcoal from hearths around the circle and wood from one of the burial
sites date to about 7,000 years ago. It's not clear when most of the
rest of the monument was erected, but it was at least 5,000 years ago,
Wendorf said.

Edwin Krupp of the Griffith Observatory in Los Angeles, an expert on
ancient astronomy, said the calendar circle offers intriguing evidence
of astronomical awareness that is worth investigating further.

If the indications are real, he said, "then certainly this is one of
the very oldest examples of the incorporation of astronomy into a
monument." Some constructions in the Middle East might turn out to be
as old, he said.

Curtis Runnels, a Boston University archaeologist, said that other than
the calendar circle, the evidence of astronomical design is weak.


By MALCOLM RITTER, The Associated Press

Copyright =A91998 Nando.net

Do you have some *feedback for the Nando Times staff?






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   Apr > Apr 1

                          Cydonia Imaging Scheduled

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 04:50:42 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 22:11:13 -0500
Subject: Cydonia Imaging Scheduled

From NASA's Mars Global Surveyor site. This is the "Second
Announcement with Schedule for Observations". I have omitted the
latter though, as it was impossible to format, so do go to this
URL for more information:

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/target/announcement2.html

******



MEDIA RELATIONS OFFICE
JET PROPULSION LABORATORY
CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY
NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION
PASADENA, CALIF. 91109. TELEPHONE (818) 354-5011
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov


Contact: Diane Ainsworth


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE March 31, 1998


GLOBAL SURVEYOR SCHEDULES IMAGING OPPORTUNITIES FOR VIKING, PATHFINDER,
CYDONIA REGIONS OF MARS


The Mars Global Surveyor project has resumed scientific
observations of the surface of Mars and has scheduled
opportunities to image four selected sites: the Viking 1 and 2
landing sites, the Mars Pathfinder landing site and the Cydonia
region.

Three opportunities to image each of the four sites using the
spacecraft�s high-resolution camera will take place over the next
month, beginning on April 3 at 1:58 a.m. Pacific time, when
Global Surveyor passes over the Viking 1 landing site. The
spacecraft will next pass over the Viking 2 landing site at 1:37
p.m. Pacific time on April 3. On April 4, Global Surveyor will
try to image the now-silent Mars Pathfinder lander at 1:16 a.m.
Pacific time. It will then capture a portion of the Cydonia
region of Mars, location of the so-called "Face on Mars," on
April 5 at 12:33 a.m. Pacific time.

Attempts to rephotograph the sites will occur during two
additional opportunities falling about nine days apart. A
detailed schedule of the imaging attempts is listed below.
Uncertainties in both the spacecraft�s pointing and the knowledge
of the spacecraft�s ground track from its navigation data will
provide only a 30- to- 50-percent chance of capturing the images
of each site.

All of the selected targets are located south of Global
Surveyor�s periapsis, or point of closest approach to the Martian
surface. Shortly before the spacecraft reaches this point, the
Global Surveyor spacecraft will rotate slightly so that when it
nears the selected target, the camera�s field-of-view will sweep
across the target as the spacecraft flies south and rises away.

The spacecraft will begin transmitting to Earth data stored on
its onboard solid-state recorders about seven hours after the
images are acquired, concluding about three hours later.
Currently it takes radio signals from Mars Global Surveyor about
20 minutes to travel from the spacecraft to Earth.

Data will be received at one of NASA�s Deep Space Network
tracking stations at Goldstone, CA, near Madrid, Spain or near
Canberra, Australia, and then sent by satellite to NASA�s Jet
Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA. There the images, along with
all of the rest of Global Surveyor�s science and engineering
data, are placed in the project database for access by flight
controllers. This process takes only seconds for each bit of
data. Consequently, the image data will not be available be on
the ground until about 10.5 hours after they are acquired. Data
received overnight will not be retrieved until 9 a.m. Pacific
time on the following workday.

When image data are retrieved by camera operators, the
information is assembled into "raw" images. Raw images may
contain data errors or drop-outs introduced by noise in the
telecommunications channel between the spacecraft and the ground,
as well as very slight picture element variations inherent in the
camera. This data processing takes about 30 minutes.

Raw images will posted on three web sites: JPL's Mars news site
at http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/marsnews, the Mars Global Surveyor
project home page at http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov and NASA's
Planetary Photojournal site at http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov.
Information identifying the acquisition time, predicted center
latitude and longitude of the target location, and the local
solar time will accompany these images.

Contrast enhancement will be performed by JPL�s Multimission
Image Processing Laboratory and posted on the web a few hours
later. The Global Surveyor project home page also contains
spacecraft orbital velocity and distance to the planet in real
time.

Images of the Viking and Mars Pathfinder landing sites will not
be posted until image enhancement and identification of the
vehicles have been completed, because the small spacecraft will
be at the limits of the camera�s resolution. This process will
take about 24 hours.

Mars Global Surveyor is part of a sustained program of Mars
exploration known as the Mars Surveyor Program. The mission is
managed by the Jet Propulsion Laboratory for NASA's Office of
Space Science, Washington, DC. JPL's industrial partner is
Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, CO, which developed and
operates the spacecraft. JPL is a division of the California
Institute of Technology, Pasadena, CA.


Mars Global Surveyor Imaging Schedule

<snipped>


#####


3/31/98 DEA
#9831






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                             An April 'Stew-pid'

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 01:22:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 01:22:33 -0500
Subject: An April 'Stew-pid'




From: Art Bell's 'Program Summaries' page:

http://www.artbell.com/topics.html


Program Summaries

3/31/98 Tuesday / Wednesday

<snip>

Fax.... MSNBC and CNBC did special reports entitled "UFO
can of worms opened" concerning info disclosed by Sara
McClendon in her press release. She will meet with White
House officials tomorrow. (Later in the program, Art learns





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                           The New Alien Religion?

From: xzone@webgate.net ('X' Zone Radio Show) [Rob McConnell]
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 22:16:57 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 01:08:12 -0500
Subject: The New Alien Religion?

The New Alien Religion?

Was the late 19th Century a time set aside for a Changing of the
gods? Are Cults the Growing pains of that change?

BY CLYDE LEWIS - clyde@earthbroadcasting.com

Clyde is the Host of GROUND ZERO on FM 101 KBER in Salt Lake
City, Utah.

 To members of the Mormon church, Joseph Smith Jr was a
prophet called of God to establish the true church on earth. If
he had really been the victim of alien abduction, then the church
he founded is based upon what he learned at the hands of an alien
being. This revelation, while startling and upsetting to faithful
Mormons, may mean that we can learn why aliens have been visiting
earth and interfering with humanity.

Joseph Smith Jr had been having troubling visitations by what
Smith said was the Angel Moroni. This being visited the young boy
many times in his bedroom at night. The testimony of Joseph Smith
is remarkable in that it mirrors the stories of the victims of
alien abduction today. It is only in the present that this can be
examined as such, however there was another known visitation that
is not talked about.

It is has been said by the Mormon faithful that "many are
called but few are chosen."If that was the case then, there
would have to be others at the same time as the smith encounter
claiming the same type of expierience. John Ballou Newbrough
makes a claim that rivals that of Joseph Smith with regards to
=91Beings of light or angels" attempting to prepare the world for
enlightenment. Does this sound impossible? All down through
history there have been countless reports of strange phenomena,
of apparitions and hauntings, and of people with inexplicable
powers such as clairvoyance and precognition (prophecy) and
telepathy, which transcended space and time. But, until recently,
the agents commonly held to be responsible for such occurrences
were never called space-dwelling entities. They were called
demons, devils, ghosts, spirits, angels, virgins, Gods, or simply
higher powers. As such, everybody knew about them and most people
regularly worshipped and did service to one or more of them even
as they do today.

Joseph Smith Jr=92s experience is very similar to the alien
abduction reports of today. Joseph Smith experienced virtually
all the classic indicators of alien abduction. He had unusual
dreams like his father, but his encounters continued to increase
in intensity until nearly every abduction encounter
classification applied. When Joseph prayed in the woods near his
home he was engulfed in a beam of light and paralyzed. We now
know that it does not take a divine encounter to produce this
experience. Since non Mormons would assume that it is very
unlikely that God revealed himself to Joseph, particularly in a
human form, it is most likely that Joseph was encountering alien
beings. An angel appeared at his bedside claiming to be Moroni.
Moroni said that the was an ancient Prophet and that he was to
translate a book from plates of gold, hidden in a hill near his
home. He translated the book with the aid of seer stones known
as the urim and thummim. This book was eventually called the Book
of Mormon. These events were happening in the 1820=92s and Joseph
it is said to have been very interested in what we call the
paranormal today. Both Joseph Smith and his successor Brigham
Young both believed that there was life on other planets, which
was pretty bold for men of the 1800=92s. Brigham speculated on
cool areas of the Sun that could have been inhabited and Smith
reportedly thought that there were beings that lived beyond the
moon.

Now we go to the year 1870 a morning where John Ballou
Newbrough, a dentist went to the home of a friend And told him an
unbelievable story He writes:

I had quite an experience about 4 AM this morning. I was
sleeping nicely when I felt a hand on my shoulder. A voice
said:'Wake up, doctor. Everything is all right. I only want to
ask you a question and we will go.' "I rubbed my eyes and saw
that the room was lit up with pillars of a soft light very
pleasing to the eyes. I saw a number of beautiful spirits or
Angels. They did not have wings. The voice said, 'Would you like
to perform a mission for Jehovah? ' "I sat up and answered, '
What is the mission so that I may know whether to say yes or no?'
"The answer came back, 'Jehovih would like you to live
spiritually for ten years. At the end of that time we will come
back and tell you what it is we desire, for your body and mind
are not sufficiently perceptible now. You must be pure."

"We want you never to kill anything or eat meat, fish, or
fowl. Live on nuts, fruit, vegetables. You don't need so much
food, as you are too heavy now. . . One other thing is very
important. You must help people. Give people who need it, dental
help without pay, if they can not pay. By individual charity you
change the person's thoughts. They will think of you as a good
man and will send out loving thoughts to you. You will need all
the love you can get. We do not refer to sexual desires =97-let
nature take care of that.' "I answered, ' This will be quite a
change of living for me. I will let you know.' " 'We already know
your answer,' the voice said, 'It will be yes ' Then the lights
dimmed and the atmosphere changed back to normal darkness.


Once again we see the typical alien experience, this was not
ancient nor was it modern, this was an encounter from the late
1800=92s.

Ten years later Newbrough was awakened to find the mysterious
lights filling his room. He was asked by the emissaries to buy a
typewriter. Newbrough was asked to have fresh paper by the
typewriter, and that every morning these beings would return and
that he was to write everything they dictate to him. He told
them that he did not know how to type, the beings told him that
they would help his hands type out the words. Every morning
before sunrise from, January 1, 1881 until December 15, 1881,
Newbrough wrote at his Sholes typewriter at a speed almost
impossible, considering the crudity of this first typewriter. In
1882 the first edition of the book his hands but not his mind had
written was published. It was called OAHSPE consists of authentic
and official disclosures made for our orientation and guidance by
organized space-dwelling entities above us in the hierarchy of
life forms. These space-dwelling entities of OAHSPE claim to be,
and indeed may very well be, members of a cosmic society older
than the earth. Newbrough became interested in what is known as
the Paranormal today, and many times, with a friend went on
excursions to photograph spirit beings, and interviewed several
mediums who could channel spiritual entities.

Now the event of both the Book of Mormon and the OAHSPE arriving
are significant because The book of Mormon merely pointed out
that there was a group of people who Journeyed from the old
world to the new world of the Americas, and that these people
settled here long before the birth of Jesus and that Jesus
Mission continued from the holy land to the new world after His
crucifixion and resurrection. We are taught about ancient
civilizations that lived and fought here, and it teaches of
divinely inspired prophets who governed their peoples under the
direction of what they determined was god.

The Oahspe which also declares divine intervention gives us
information about causes and origins, about things, personages,
and events, about right and wrong, about space, gravity, and
extraterrestrial organizations, and above all, about the
continued life of the human spirit and what this really means.
The OAHSPE consists of disclosures made for the planets guidance
by organized space-dwelling entities above us in the hierarchy of
life forms. These space-dwelling entities of OAHSPE claim to be
members of a cosmic society older than the earth.

Television Documentaries on the paranormal have asked these
questions over and over. "what is the significance of ancient
civilizations? Were they highly advanced? Why did they disappear?
Where do we find the answers? Did Aliens visit this planet and
teach the Egyptians the art of pyramid building? Why is the
ancient Egyptian architecture similar in Mexico and South
America? Maybe it is time to gain this knowledge so that we can
prepare for their arrival again?

So the question is has mankind progressed in spite of the gods,
or are we progressing because of them, and are books like the
Oahspe and the Book of Mormon given to us by extraterrestrials
to help us learn more about the Gods or Cosmic societies that are
unseen? Another question is are we ready to change our thinking
about the old Gods and are we ready for new ones? Or are they the
same gods and are they doing the same things that were done to
Abraham and Moses? The Claims by both Joseph Smith and Dr.
Newbrough are outrageous, and both would be dismissed by devout
Christians and those who wish to exploit their interests in the
occult.

Their experiences are no different than the countless
encounters both biblical and modern and if they fancy themselves
prophetic, it is no different than the prophets of the bible or
the great Philosophers. There is no need to take sides, and no
need to call names or discredit these men. Anyone can find fault
with anyone. But it is also necessary to point out that
sometimes these types of encounters have led to dangerous ends.
People will remember the 39 dying at Rancho Santa Fe with Marshal
Applewhite who claimed that God was An alien who flew in a space
ship hidden in the tail of comet Hale-Bopp. This could very well
be the answer as to why the 39 were so willing to follow. It was
a classic case of what had been talked about for centuries.

If you are true believer in unseen powers, and
interdimensional beings then it stands to reason that both
positive and negative entities exist out there in the cosmos.
The difficult thing is to what to believe. Do you believe an old
Hebrew prophet from the old testament who claimed that laws were
given to him on stones, written with God=92s fiery finger. Do you
believe in burning bushes and talking boxes of gold? Do you
believe in a messiah that healed the sick and performed miracles,
but was humble enough to die like a man in a humiliating way? Do
you believe in visionaries who have brought us wisdom from beings
from heaven, or do you buy the testimony of a 14 year old boy? Or
the revelations of an overweight vegetarian dentist ? You see,
mankind has been under the Microscope of beings for centuries.
That is only if we believe the countless stories told over and
over again. From Moses to Jesus and John the revelator, from
Uriel, to Joseph Smith to John Ballou Newbrough, Charles Manson,
Marshall Applewhiteand even the latest cult leader Hon-Ming
Chen. Both sides of these powers are attempting to manifest
themselves in some way. Are you listening or are you dismissing
it outright because it is fashionable to criticize without
investigating?

Perhaps we are seeing a changing of the guard? Jesus did it
to Moses, and prophets would change through the years. Who is to
say that Gods don=92t change? That Angels of yesterday are Aliens
of today? Just like prophets of The old Testament, become
messiah=92s of the new?

The new Millenium is upon us. We are seeing the arrival of
strange Cults day after day=85 and each one we make fun of, because
they have strange ideas. What if after the year 2000 this earth
is still here? What if after 100 years after the new century, the
hell fire and brimstone preaching still hasn=92t produced a
returned Messiah or rapture? Will that ruin the validity of
religion? Think about it? For thousands of years prophets,
popes, and soothsayers have preached the demise of this planet
and the arrival of a God. When is it going to happen? If it
doesn=92t happen, will we then come together as a United Group and
realize our folly?

We are seeing the results of our division at present, and I guess
this is important to our growth as humans. It is giving us war,
and argument over who is right and who is more blessed by God.
What if god decided to throw an asteroid at us? We would forget
all of our differences wouldn=92t we? What if an unknown race of
superbeings arrived and proceeded to destroy everything on this
Planet? God wouldn=92t be Jewish, Catholic, Moslem, Mormon or
Protestant. God would be all of us united fighting for one cause.
Maybe that is the key to the truth? Coming to the ultimate
conclusion. We are not alone in this universe and that we are the
progeny of an extra terrestrial deity, and that a Uniting of the
minds is not an evil thing, but what the Aliens, space-dwelling
entities, demons, devils, ghosts, spirits, angels, virgins, Gods,
or higher powers want the outcome to be of their long term
experiment.



Clyde Lewis






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                      Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

From: "Scott Reed" <sreed@zoomnet.net>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 08:02:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 13:00:04 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"


>Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:31:39 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

>On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote:

>> From: "Keith M. King" <alien2@sound.net>
>> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>> Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 06:44:32 +0000
>> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

>> > From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
>> > To: updates@globalserve.net
>> > Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 02:43:26 +0100
>> > Subject: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

>If you read your Bible carefully you will discover that a large
>part of it does involves predictions, including many which are
>identified as "end time" predictions.  It also has some of the
>earliest accounts of UFOs on record.  What do you mean then by
>"Keep all Scripture in the context in which it was written."?
>Except for these "end time" predictions (we are not there just
>yet) the Bible has also been shown to have an unprecedented 100%
>accuracy with regard to fulfilled prophecies, at least according
>to The Learning Channel and some more reliable sources.


I'm not a bible scholar but I'm wondering if you can point out
any instance where a detailed prediction from the bible has come
true?  Beyond some 'highly intuitive' observations, I'm not aware
that the Bible holds anything of special 'psychic' interest.

>As for the year 2000 mass landings, from what I have been reading
>in UFO UpDates recently, I think 1998 is the year.  At least
>that's my prediction. ;)

I don't understand what 'end-times deceptions' have to do with
the study of unidentified flying objects, but it is curious that
such prophesies and doomsday predictions gets thrown in with ufo
subject matter.  People have been predicting the end of the world
since, well,  the beginning of the world (generally speaking).
I'm sure you're just kidding around about 1998, but I'm still
interested in the doomsday connection that exists in ufo
literature.  The concept of the year 2000 mass landings or some
ambiguously originating holocaust is as  childish a theme as
Adamski's Venusians.  I just hope all those doomsday-sayers
aren't too disappointed when 2001 rolls around and there is still
an earth beneath their feet.

ScottR.



   Visit the HIGH STRANGENESS web-site,
  a 'pop-art' exploration of UFO phenomenon
 http://www.zoomnet.net/~sreed/strangeness.htm






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                     UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing?

From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch)
Date: 03 Apr 98 00:10:00 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 12:57:42 -0500
Subject: UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing?


Hello,

*NASA employee confirms: UFOs observed Apollo Moon landing*

In Germany's best UFO related magazine, the UFO-KURIER No. 30 of
April 1997, I found something very interesting which might have
passed the attention of many and so I would like to present it to
this honourable list. I would appreciate further comments to the
text given below.

What I tried to translate into English is part of a report (on
page 18) about the "World Congress February 21st to  23rd 1997"
held by the ATLANTIS FOUNDATION of Mr. Acedaih Dafi in Zuerich,
Switzerland.

Here it goes:

------begin of the translation of page 18/19 of German UFO-KURIER

No.30, April 1997------------

"Mr. Armin Risi presented a sensationel revealation to the
audience: in January 1997, the Tessin tv-station "TSI" (which is
the tv-station of the Italian speaking part of Switzerland)
broadcasted a high-class four part tv-documentation about UFOs.
The producer was the renowned journalist Guido Ferrari. After the
documentations a discussion took place with professors and ph.d's
of the relevant sciences. Among them was Dr. Dino Dini from
Italy, a longstanding NASA employee, who has been invited to
argufy from the sceptic point of view.

Near the end of the discussion the TSI performed an uncut film of
the Moon landing. You could see, how astronaut Neil Armstrong
entered the Moon and you could hear what he said:

Armstr.:(just got out) "What is it? Do you have an explanation
about that?"

Huston: "We have one. Don't worry. Attend to the program!"

Armstr.: "O boy! It is really something, it's fantastic! You
cannot even imagine this!"

Huston: "Roger. We know about that. You go the other way. Go back
the other  way!"

Armstr.: "Well, it's a kind... really spectacular. O God, what is
that? What is that?"

Huston: "Change frequency! Go Tango! Tango!

Armstr.: "It's a kind of life there, now..."

Huston: "Roger. ...communication. Bravo-Tango! Bravo-Tango! Talk
Jezebel! Jezebel!"

Armstr.: "...but this is unbelievable!"

And then obviously the frequency of transmission was changed.

The moderator then turned over to Dr. Dini and confronted him
with what  they had heard before:

Mod. "Dr. Dini, you worked within the news services of NASA. I
ask you: why has NASA dropped from the official version which
went round the world the part which was spoken directly? Why was
it deleted?"

All the others in the discussion round expected Dr. Dini to
present some dementi or other elusions. But what followed then
was a sensationel relvealation: the former NASA employee
confirmed everything  -  and more!

Dr. Dini: "It was deleted because several things came together
which belonged to the famous "Blue Book" which should have
published but they changed this initial intention. Well the fact
is this: what Armstrong saw, was real. Because everywhere, where
there is confusion, in the Gulf War, in the last war -
everywhere, where confusion breaks out, there these flying disk
are appearing. These flying disk do come from stations  which are
positioned near Earth. So it was right and we had to do it..."

Mod.: " You mean the deleting?"

Dr. Dini: "Yes, the deleting."

Mod.: "What was spoken, you have heard it. What did Armstrong
see?  What was it?"

Dr.Dini: "He saw objects, which followed them, space ships, which
followed the Apollo space ship..."

Mod.: "...living beings too?"

Dr. Dini: " Yes, living beings too. Other space ships followed
the Apollo space ship. This is a fact which was confirmed by
various expeditions."

We don't know if and how far reaching Dr. Dini is part of a
policy of revealations by NASA. At any rate, this testimony has
great importance."

-----end of the translation of page 18/19 of German UFO-KURIER
No.30, April 1997------------


I'll try to get a transscript of the discussion. If so, then I'll
post it here. Meanwhile I would like to ask our American and
Italian colleagues to do some research into the person of Dr.
Dini.

Does anybody know him? Did he work for NASA? What is his approach
to the reality of UFOs?

Looking forward to read your comments

Joachim Koch


        *Homepage International Roswell Initiative, Germany:*
         > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jkoch1 <
      *Update December 20,1997*: News about the "Santilli-Film"
   Other items: Lesotho-Crash, Crop Circles, Betty Hill's Star Map





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   Apr > Apr 2

             Re: 'Project Snowflake' - A Discovery Channel Hoax

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 01:16:00 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 13:16:48 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Project Snowflake' - A Discovery Channel Hoax


>Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:49:17 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: xzone@webgate.net (The 'X' Chronicles & 'X' Zone) [Rob McConnell]
>Subject: "PROJECT SNOWFLAKE" A DISCOVERY CHANNEL HOAX

Dear Sirs (Project Snowflake et. al.)

> Wednesday, April 1, 1998   NR 98-12

> UFO CONSPIRACY EXISTS ACCORDING TO EXN POLL OF CANADIANS "Project
> Snowflake" Revealed as April Fool's Internet Stunt

> In the spirit of April Fool's day, the staff at Discovery
> Channel's EXN.ca Web site revealed today that they had mixed fact
> with fiction to create "Project Snowflake", an Internet stunt
> designed to coincide with the re-launch of the award-winning
> science site.  In conducting the stunt, they also learned a
> surprising fact:  74% of Canadians polled believe that the
> Government is hiding UFO technology.  [ large snip ] ..

> During the stunt, visitors to the site were polled.  The results
> are remarkable:
>      *  63% of respondents believe that UFOs exist
>      *  63% think that UFO technology exists on Earth
>      *  74% believe that the Government is hiding UFO technology

I don't get it. IF these figures are for real, the indication is
that some 11% of all Canadians polled (at least), do NOT
"believe" in UFOs but DO think the Government is hiding UFO
Technology. Are you telling us that 11% of Canadians believe the
Gov't is hiding non-existant technology?

Or, is this yet another April Fools day joke?

- Larry Hatch   <larryhat@jps.net>









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                  Re: Update on Indiana Sightings: witness

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 05:46:56 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 13:02:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Update on Indiana Sightings: witness

>Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 18:34:40 -0800 (PST)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, updates@globalserve.net
>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Update on Indiana Sightings: witness descriptions

>>Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 10:01:53 -0800
>>From: "Kenny Young" <task@fuse.net>
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Update on Indiana Sightings: witness descriptions

>>Update on Indiana Sightings:

>>...
>>The red lights were estimated to be 2000 feet up in the air and
>>were visible for over a minute.  On the Thursday sighting, the
>>witness said the objects started to bank and turn away as if
>>leaving, still seemingly attached to one permanent object.  He
>>said that the objects seemed to 'go upward' in unison. "I don't
>>know how else to say it, they went up," he commented.
>
>>"There was SO much air traffic, I just couldn't believe that
>>there were no pilots who didn't see anything.  It was about rush
>>hour for air traffic into Evansville, and these things were
>>flying right into the flight path and corridor of the air
>>traffic."

>Hello Kenny,

>It's interesting to keep track of sightings of this nature --
>they've occurred plenty of times before -- in which the UFO was
>visible to a few observers situated in one place but seemingly
>invisible to many others in the general area.  Does it make sense
>-- if UFOs can render themselves invisible (suddenly disappear,
>etc.), or if they normally operate in that mode, that they could
>even top this?  That is, some of them can perhaps make themselves
>visible just to a few people in one small area while staying
>invisible to everyone else.

>On the other hand, if a lot of pilots see a UFO, a lot of pilots
>can stay quiet about it!

>>The witness said that what he saw was not likely to be flares,
>>because there was no trail or movement.  He said nothing fell to
>>the ground or moved downward. "If these were flares, wouldn't
>>they be falling?

>Thanks for having posted the Indiana sightings.

>   Jim Deardorff

Hi Jim.

I am currently investigating these accounts.  I am not ready to
make any comments at this time, other than to say that I am in
touch with the local Southern Indiana TV station which has been
broadcasting the reported sightings.

Once I finish checking out the leads I have been given I will
post a report.

All I can say at this time, is that on Sunday, March 29, I spent
the evening hours driving and talking with the Law enforcement
officials between Evansville and Vincennes, Indiana.
I took a copy of Kenny's initial report with me and used it as a
reference and an introduction to these officials.
It was an interesting six hours.

Later, Jim.

REgards, Mike
___

The fastest way to respond to this message is through the ICQ Network. A
message sent this way will go directly to my screen.
 If you have ICQ you can message me at ICQ#:7508455.
 If you don't have ICQ you can page me through:  My Personal Communication
Center:   http://wwp.mirabilis.com/7508455 (go there and try it!)
 Or you can send me a regular e-mail to my EmailExpress address:
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 Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
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 Michael Christol ----------------------------------------------------






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   Apr > Apr 2

                    The Millennium Report - April 1, 1998

From: psa@direct.ca (Paul Anderson)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 00:05:50 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 13:20:42 -0500
Subject: The Millennium Report - April 1, 1998



The Millennium Report
April 1, 1998


The Millennium Report is the weekly on-line news service
of The Millennium Group, which provides the latest current
information on a wide range of the most phenomenal,
controversial and enigmatic issues of our time, and their
possible implications as we approach the next Millennium;
TMR is an alternative source of information which is often
ignored or sensationalized by the mainstream and tabloid
media.

Editor:
Paul Anderson
psa@direct.ca
______________________________

SPECIAL BULLETIN
Nasa to Attempt to Aquire New Images of
"Face" / Cydonia Region on Mars in April

Major UFO Wave Continues in Florida for 3rd Week

The First Circles of 1998 Reported in Holland

New Zealand Crop Circle Hoax: Disinformation Campaign?

Mexico City UFO Program Rescheduled for April 6

______________________________

Complete report on the TMG web site:
http://www.mypage.direct.ca/p/psa/

Note: the TMG web site requires a frames-enabled
browser, and TMR is designed for a frames environment;
please access TMR through the main TMG web site for
proper viewing.

______________________________

For further information or correspondence, contact:

Paul Anderson

Director
THE MILLENNIUM GROUP
Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue, Vancouver, BC  V6J 1J4
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://mypage.direct.ca/p/psa/

Director
CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA
Affiliate of Circles Phenomenon Research International
Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue, Vancouver, BC  V6J 1J4
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310







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   Apr > Apr 2

                    eSufo - April 6th - Mars Face Images

From: "David Watanabe" <davew@exosci.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 02:14:39 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 13:23:51 -0500
Subject: eSufo - April 6th - Mars Face Images

exoScience UFO * 4/1/98 * exosci.com/ufo

* MARS FACE IMAGES TO ARRIVE APRIL 6th

The schedule for the Mars Global Surveyor (MGS) images of
Cydonia, Pathfinder and Viking sites has been made public. The
first Cydonia images will be available on APRIL 6th (early
morning supposedly). Viking and Pathfinder images will wait
another 24 hours for image processing since the actual images
will need to be cleaned up because of the small size of the
actual objects.

   APRIL 6th - Mark it on your calendar!!
   ...go to:  http://exosci.com/ufo/

Don't underestimate the importance of this event.  The images
will be extremely significant whether they point to an artificial
structure, or a natural one.  An artificial structure clearly
shows some kind of extraterrestrial intelligence - a revelation
which would be the most important realization in the history of
our species.  The fundamental leap is just as great as when we
realized our sentience.
Our paradigm of the universe would be shattered.  Rather than
having to wait for SETI to find an intelligent signal, we simply
have to turn our eyes to Mars.  In addition, the emotional impact
of an artificial Mars Face is much more than that of a SETI
signal, since it is a physical image and not some cryptic
sequence of pulses.
A naturally created Face is less significant to humanity, but
significant still to the UFO community.  If it is natural, the
implications are clear.  Wasted time is what we will have to show
for ourselves.  Wasted time and wasted effort which could have
been spent on more useful investigation of the UFO phenomenon,
rather than fanciful and speculative hopes.

As promised, exoScience UFO will DEFINITELY have all the images
as quickly as we can get them.  Also expect commentary to follow
this potentially revolutionary event.  On April 6th, join us at:

http://exosci.com/ufo/

The complete schedule is available at:

http://exosci.com/news/51.html


* WEBSITE UPDATE - PICTURES SECTION

   Check out our pictures section of the website.  We have deployed a
new interface here which will hopefully make it to the rest of
exoScience UFO.  Check it out at:
     http://exosci.com/ufo/pics/

Comments are encouraged and welcome!



(wow, these are exciting times!   :)

 David Watanabe
 davew@exosci.com

____________________________________________________
exoScience UFO=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
 http://exosci.com/ufo/

****************************************************
To SUBSCRIBE / UNSUBSCRIBE, send email to:
     davew@exosci.com
with either "subscribe ufo" or "unsubscribe ufo" in
the SUBJECT.
****************************************************

To POST, send email for approval to:
     davew@exosci.com
____________________________________________________
Written on the campus of UBC in Vancouver BC, Canada
exosci.com served using Pair Networks - www.pair.com
Copyright (c) 1998 David Watanabe - davew@exosci.com






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   Apr > Apr 2

                      Conference on Anomalous Phenomena

From: frizzell@umbc.edu (mike frizzell)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 13:33:21 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 14:15:48 -0500
Subject: Conference on Anomalous Phenomena

Hi all:

Please be advised the the International Fortean Organization's
Spring Conference on Anomalous Phenomena will be held on
Saturday, April 25, 1998 at the Ramada Inn in Bethesda, MD.
Speakers will include: Graham Hancock, John Michell, John Anthony
West, Dr. David Jacobs, and Arthur Seltman.

For more information please use the following URL:

http://www.research.umbc.edu/~frizzell/frtnt8







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   Apr > Apr 2

                         Re: The New Alien Religion?

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 11:02:18 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 14:27:00 -0500
Subject: Re: The New Alien Religion?

>Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 22:16:57 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: xzone@webgate.net ('X' Zone Radio Show) [Rob McConnell]

>The New Alien Religion?

>Was the late 19th Century a time set aside for a Changing of the
>gods? Are Cults the Growing pains of that change?

>BY CLYDE LEWIS - clyde@earthbroadcasting.com

>Clyde is the Host of GROUND ZERO on FM 101 KBER in Salt Lake
>City, Utah.

> To members of the Mormon church, Joseph Smith Jr was a
>prophet called of God to establish the true church on earth. If
>he had really been the victim of alien abduction, then the church
>he founded is based upon what he learned at the hands of an alien
>being. This revelation, while startling and upsetting to faithful
>Mormons, may mean that we can learn why aliens have been visiting
>earth and interfering with humanity.
>...
>In 1882 the first edition of the book his hands but not his mind had
>written [Newbrough's] was published. It was called OAHSPE consists of
>authentic
>and official disclosures made for our orientation and guidance by
>organized space-dwelling entities above us in the hierarchy of
>life forms. These space-dwelling entities of OAHSPE claim to be,
>and indeed may very well be, members of a cosmic society older
>than the earth.

To Rob McConnell & List:

This article you posted by Clyde Lewis invites a bit of a
critique, since channelings are known to be full of mischievous
misrepresentations.  Where the article reports that the OAHSPE
book consists of authentic... disclosures, that's what caught my
eye.

The OAHSPE looks like a cosmic conglomeration of Zoroastrianism
and Judaism, with a few allusions to Christianity tossed in
(unless some are Christian allusions to Zoroastrianism).  In it,
I'hua 'Mazda (Ahura Mazda) is the God of heaven, the Savior of
men and the only begotten Son of Ormazd, while Ormazd is also
Ahura Mazda, within Zoroastrianism.  Zarathustra (Zoroaster) was
the human protegee of I'hua 'Mazda, and his betrayer was Zhoo'das
or Judas.  Yet, Jehovih, the Creator and "the All," is very much
in the picture, too, and he appears throughout the OAHSPE;
Fragapatti is the Son of Jehovih and Samati is the High God of
heaven.  Just plain "God" also speaks frequently in the OAHSPE;
he is an angel who ranks above the Lord, who is a God of the
earth. The Holy Ghost receives some mention, too.  "Christ" (also
spelled "Kriste" in the OAHSPE) is said to be the Ahamic word for
knowledge, whereas we know it as being derived from the Greek
"anointed one" or "messiah."  It's all a confusing mishmash,
rivaled only by the Urantia Book, which, however, contains a lot
more imaginative Christianity in it.

For those who wish to judge the OAHSPE's authenticity on the
basis of science, it does attempt to make scientific sounding
pronouncements.  One need only consider, e.g., OAHSPE 594.9-12
where it says:

"It is an error to say that the atmosphere of the earth
decreaseth gradually and continually in specific gravity
according to the distance above the earth.... As to density per
se there is no difference in the atmosphere on the face of the
earth compared to that of a thousand miles high, or a hundred
thousand miles high.  It is all in even balance, as to pressure
and density, per se."  (This says that where our satellites are
zipping around in orbit, the air is just as dense as down at the
surface.)

"There is also a variation in the barometer according to certain
conditions of the atmosphere.  The difference is not that the
pressure of the atmosphere is different; the pressure of the
atmosphere, per se, is the same in all directions, high and low.
The cause of the variation of the barometer is in reference to
distension (sublimated solution of corpor), and hath no reference
to pressure as such."  (This says that the reading of your
barometer is not related to the highs and lows on the weather
pressure maps, and that you may as well toss out any barometric
altimeter you may possess.)

So I don't know how Clyde Lewis could call the OAHSPE
"authentic."  This is not to say, however, that there aren't
occasional sentences within the OAHSPE with which one can
logically agree.

Jim Deardorff






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   Apr > Apr 2

                             Hot Gossip UK (one)

From: georgina@easynet.co.uk [Georgina Bruni]
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 19:38:32 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 14:20:35 -0500
Subject: Hot Gossip UK (one)

APRIL 1998
Hot Gossip UK - The Unexplained Page - UFO Updates
Part One
http://www.camelot-group.com/hotgossip/unexgoss.html
By Georgina Bruni
**************************************************************************

The Angelholm Landing - The Untold Story

In mid 1997, I wrote an article for SIGHTINGS (UK) and FROM
BEYOND (US & Canada) about a Swedish UFO incident that allegedly
took place in 1946. I first heard about the case from a contact
in Sweden, and since then I=92ve been intrigued enough to do
further research, and finally was able to speak directly with the
experiencer.  This is a very unusual and interesting case, and
not only does it precede the well known 1947 incidents, but
appears to involve some of the world=92s biggest pharmaceutical
companies.  If it=92s genuine, then researchers may think twice
about dismissing the claims of Colonel (Ret) Philip J Corso and
Dr Michael Wolf, for instance.

The experiencer, G=F6sta Carlsson, will celebrate his 80th
birthday this year. He still resides in Angelholm, Southern
Sweden, were as a young lad he had a fascination with bees,
and their work with pollen (the family were known locally for
their interest in bee hives) and he had been given his first
hive when still only a child.  He was 27 years old when he
claims he encountered an alien craft and its occupants. At
the time he worked for the railways, and as a part-time
gamekeeper.

The story begins on the evening of 18 May 1946. G=F6sta
was walking through a wooded area when he noticed a
bright light coming from a glade in the distance.  Thinking
that some boys had started a fire, he rushed to the scene,
and to his amazement, discovered a large disc with eleven
human-like occupants.  According to G=F6sta=92s observation,
the beings were definitely humanoid in appearance, and
were extremely attractive.  They had brown skin, dark brown
hair, beautiful white teeth, and were all the same height, that
appeared to be shorter than the average human height.
They wore white tight fitting suits which made them all look
very similar, and I understand that some of them were wearing
a kind of helmet with a visor. G=F6sta can=92t remember much
about their eyes, except that they were definitely not of oriental
type. He made a strong point of saying that the beings were in
much better condition than we are, and insists that they were
of extraterrestrial origin, describing them as clones. The latter
was confirmed to him by an American scientist.

On trying to get a closer look, G=F6sta moved toward the craft
but was stopped  in his tracks by a crew member, who literally
=91froze=92 him to the spot by raising up his hand.  It seems that
through some kind of telepathy the beings were able to
communicate to G=F6sta that there were originally thirteen crew,
but two had died in a rare collision with a beam from their mother
ship, and they had landed on earth to repair their ship and dispose
of (bury) their dead. However, having been disturbed by an
intruder, they decided to abandon the burial and return the
bodies to the craft.

Following the incident, G=F6sta took off, and scrambled up to an
old fort that was beside the waters edge. There he saw the
craft take off.  It=92s described as having red and yellow lights or
flames coming from its underside.  As it shot away at tremendous
speed, it suddenly disappeared out of sight.  Later, he returned
to the landing site and found two objects on the ground, a ring
and a piece of quartz crystal. But that wasn=92t the end of it.

G=F6sta claims the ET=92s have continued their communication with
him, and on these occasions they keep him awake at nights. His
last contact was two years ago, and he laments just how difficult
it is for him to explain the communications.  =93It=92s as if they
get into my brain, I feel as if I=92m hypnotized.=94  He agrees it=92s
not easy for sceptics to accept his story, as he himself was
sceptic for twenty years after the incident. =93But it=92s all true,
it did happen in 1946, and I am still being contacted.=94  says
G=F6sta, as he tries eagerly to make me understand his situation.

I believe he has kept a diary of his contact data with the ET=92s.

 =93The craft was powered by quartz crystals, and a power field
that surrounds it when in flight. The power field was still around
the craft at the landing site.=94 States G=F6sta. I asked him if the
piece of quartz crystal he had recovered, could have been one
of those used to power the craft. He said it most probably was
because they were making repairs at the time. So this may well
have been a damaged rod.  My contact, who has had several
discussions with G=F6sta, told me there were twelve quartz rods
that powered the ship.

During the many communications, and likely due to his interest
in pollen research, G=F6sta informed me that the ET=92s told him
about precious pollens which could be found here on Earth.
They taught him how to design a machine that could extract
these pollens, that could then be used as medication for many
human ailments, as well as serving as an elixir of life. With their
help, and the expertise of a local engineer, he later invented a
machine that was capable of extracting these precious pollens.
Once he had made the machine and tested it, G=F6sta approached
his friend, the president of a company called Pharmacia Allergon
AB. The company later became a well known international
pharmaceutical company, and recently merged with the
American based company of Upjohn. Pharmacia Allergon AB
was still a young company at the time, but they took an interest
in G=F6sta and his pollen extractor and decided to work with him.
=93It=92s only recently that the products have been released to the
public.

" It=92s taken years of research to get them on the market,
and I=92ve had this information since 1946.=94 He explains. .

Pharmacia Allergon AB have indeed manufactured a product based on
G=F6sta=92s discovery. It=92s available in Sweden under the name of
POLBAX. I must thank UFO researcher Harry Tokarz, director of
Cuforn, (Canadian UFO Research) who, after reading my original
article, contacted me with regards to the wonder drug. Harry is
very interested in natural health products, and he and his team
managed to trace POLBAX and discovered that it was now available
in the United States. It=92s distributed by a Californian company
called Horizon Quest, who specialize in natural pollen products.
The American name for POLBAX is PROZYME. It is also available as
a animal medication, and has had difficulties with the FDA due to
their report that it was misbranded for failure to bear adequate
directions for use.

Harry Tokarz and I both agree that the products may well be
diluted - because if used in their full strength they could
possibly cure every known illness - which of course would put the
big pharmaceutical companies out of business in no time.
I asked G=F6sta to comment on this, because I know of three people
who have tried PROZYME, and two who have taken a course of
POLBAX, but all have agreed there seems to be very little change
in their health. However, as much as I agree with Harry, that
G=F6sta=92s original remedy may have been reduced in strength before
hitting the mass market, in my opinion, they haven=92t given it
much time.

I rave about a Swiss product called Pharmaton, and I=92ve been
taking it for more than twenty  years now, and originally had to
purchase it abroad because as usual, it wasn=92t available in the
UK until much later. My point is, that I have introduced
Pharmaton to hundreds of people over the years, mostly because
they comment on how good I look for my age, needless to say, most
of them take a one month course and quit when a miracle doesn=92t
happen.  I think it=92s worth being patient, and giving it at least
six months before make your mind up time. Anyway, G=F6sta was
reluctant to answer my question, but maybe he didn=92t understand
what I was trying to query.  He did point out that Pharmacia had
spent years on research, and like all companies, had taken a very
long time to market the product.

>From researching the medical journals we have discovered that
G=F6sta=92s incredible remedies are antioxidants, created in a tablet
form of SOD (Superoxide Dismutase).  Medical research points to
the conclusion that antioxidants can prevent or delay the onset
of many health problems, including cancer and heart disease by
fighting off =93free radicals=94 which is caused by pollution,
microwaves and stress.  One distributor=92s promotion for their
pollen based products includes a quote from a book titled
=93Freedom From Disease=94 by Hari Sharma, M.D., a free radical
researcher

        =93In just the last decade, researchers around the world have
defined a new, dual paradigm of human health.
The first part of this paradigm concerns free radicals,
destructive molecular sharks that tear up the cells in our bodies
and cause both aging and disease. The second part concerns
uniquely effective control of free radicals through a prevention-
oriented, consciousness based system of natural health care.
Most researchers studying free radicals estimate that these
deadly molecules help to cause 80%-90%  of the degenerative
diseases that afflict the human race.  We once thought that
cholesterol was a major cause of heart disease, but new research
indicates that the real culprits are free radicals.  We have long
known that arthritis comes from constant inflammation, but free
radicals cause such inflammation. It is clear that cancer is
caused by gene mutation, but free radicals cause most gene
mutation.  Where we thought there were many causes, there is
often only one. And to the extent there is a single cause, there
can also be a single cure. By controlling free radicals, we
should be able to keep ourselves well.

Numerous researchers worldwide have studied the claims of G=F6sta
Carlsson=92s POLBAX/PROZYME and the results are all positive, and
have demonstrated that it is indeed a medical breakthrough.
Unfortunately, these documents are copyright and therefore I
cannot use any part of them in this article.

Apparently, the US distributors know of G=F6sta Carlsson, but know
nothing about his UFO/alien connection. Horizon Quest state that
=91G=F6sta Carlsson developed special equipment to directly collect
pollen from plants and flowers eliminating the contaminants
associated with bee pollen products.  These inventions produced a
new standard for pollen products, insuring purity and quality
control.=92

Another US company is supplying a product called AIM ReAssure
(for men=92s health) that is extracted from rye grass pollen. The
company proudly offer a history lesson which leads right back to
G=F6sta Carlsson. Their promotional data states that G=F6sta has
devoted his life to the study of pollen. As a boy he was
interested in bees and from this interest he recognized that
pollen found in different plants was of different qualities.
However, no mention of his alien friends. Some may think that
G=F6sta could have used this story as a marketing tool - except he
hasn=92t really gone public with the alien/pollen connection.

At my request, Professor Per Christer Oden sent me the Grano
medical research paper on his and G=F6sta Carlsson=92s research.
Prof Oden has worked closely on pollen research with Carlsson,
and writes:  He is the discoverer of the beneficial properties of
pollen, and although turning 80 this year, is a very interesting
personality, and is still very active.

Indeed, I was surprised to find G=F6sta such a pleasant
personality, and thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. I would
never had thought I was talking to an 80 year old man. Obviously
he must be taking his own medicine.

He has just completed work on his latest and last product called
Taxel, and it promises to be the first medicine that works on
cell building.  He has already developed four other products, and
admitted to me that he is not an academic, although he has been
interested in pollen research most of his life. G=F6sta has worked
closely with scientists for many years, but is obstinate that the
information is directly from his ET contacts.

So if G=F6sta is telling the truth, then why has the source of his
wonder remedy not been made public? Well, I=92m sure we can all
work that one out! How would it look for a major pharmaceutical
company to announce to the world that they are working with
extraterrestrial information? Whether they believe it or not,
they have certainly taken G=F6sta Carlsson, a non academic,
seriously enough to spend millions of dollars on research, and
that is a recorded FACT! It reminds me of Col Philip Corso=92s
recent claims - in his publication =93The Day After Roswell=94, that
alien technology was secretly stewarded to giant American
industry.

Incidentally, through my Swedish source I heard that G=F6sta had
been approached by US secret service agents, and had been sworn
to secrecy not to discuss the ET source until the year 2,000.  I
decided to question him about this, but he was not keen to
discuss it. However, he did divulge that he was working with
American co-operation, and with American scientists who were
helping him with his research. One colleague (a scientist) had
confirmed that they knew of these visitors, and that they were
from a star called Sirius B which was several light years away.
The scientist explained that the ET=92s were able to reproduce
themselves as clones.  Again, this reminds me of Dr Michael Wolf,
a US government scientist , who in the 1950s allegedly worked
alongside ET=92s using alien technology, and was able to clone a
robot type human. G=F6sta was also told that they were afraid to
discuss the extraterrestrial situation publicly for fear that it
would cause many problems, especially with religion. It could
cause serious problems if it were to be revealed that there were
others in the universe more advanced than us, and that there
beliefs did not fit in with any known religion, i.e. God and
Jesus Christ, explained the scientist. I asked G=F6sta if his
colleagues had confirmed whether there were aliens amongst us -
working with us.  He said . =93Yes, it=92s true.=94

G=F6sta=92s UFO and ET encounter (apart from the pollen story) was
released in a Swedish publication several years ago. It was a
lengthy journalistic investigation co-authored by G=F6sta, and
Swedish UFO investigator Clas Svahn, titled "M=F6tet i gl=E4ntan=94 The
only known English translation of the encounter, was a full
length article titled  =93The Angelholm Landing Report=94 published
in Flying Saucer Review in 1972.  Records show that Sweden had a
wave of UFO sightings in 1946, so it=92s not unreasonable to
suppose that something may have landed somewhere. However, some
Swedish UFO researchers are not convinced about the case,
insisting there are still many unanswered questions. That may be
true, but it appears that none of these investigators have taken
the trouble to research further, and if they had done so, they
may have discovered that all these years G=F6sta has been quietly
working with American scientists to produce a=93super drug=94 , and
that there is a possibility that this was created by using alien
information.

PHOTO: Cement Model of the UFO Gosta is alleged to have seen
Photo credit - Michael Jansson

PHOTO: Metal Grave erected by Gosta as a landmark to the alleged
burial site were the ET=92s were said to have attempted to bury
their dead, later abandoning the idea and returning  the bodies
to the craft.

Photo credit Michael Jansson

PHOTO: Cover of the publication  =93M=F6tet i gl=E4ntan=94 featuring
Gosta Carlsson on cover

<all pictures can be viewed on the site>

http://www.camelot-group.com/hotgossip/unexgoss.html

Visitors to the landing site can expect to see a cement replica
of the landed UFO. G=F6sta had this placed there so the incident
wouldn=92t be forgotten. He also had the landing marks cemented,
these look like crop circles.  Close by is a metal sign with =93UFO
GRAVE=94 written on it, this is supposed to mark the spot were the
ET=92s were about to bury their dead.
G=F6sta assures me that he was not seeking publicity when he
resurrected the site, which was several years ago now, but it was
something he felt he had to do.  Besides, his ET friends have
told him that they hope to revisit between the year 2000  - 2002,
and he hopes they will remember to return to the same location.
=93At least it=92s done some good for Angelholm, because the site now
receives about 10,000 tourists every summer, when for two months
there is a guided tour.=94 Remarks G=F6sta.
My source tells me that he=92s is a local celebrity, but prefers to
live a quiet and peaceful life, and shies away from public and
media attention. He doesn=92t answer his phone unless you know the
code!

Whatever conclusions you come to on reading this unusual story -
keep in mind the evidence -that G=F6sta Carlsson, by no means an
academic, or publicity seeker, has been quietly working alongside
scientists for almost 50 years, and that without a doubt he has
been taken seriously in the world of pharmaceutical research.  At
no time during our conversation did he give himself any credit
for the remedies he has been instrumental in creating. Instead,
as afore mentioned, he persistently gave the  credit go to his ET
friends, the humanoids from the star Sirius B. One wonders how
many of the scientists working on the remedies- are actually
aware that the source of these medical breakthroughs may indeed
be our extraterrestrial brothers and sisters - who in their
advancement, may well have managed to clone themselves..

My own conclusions are that because of the medical reports, there
can be no doubt that G=F6sta Carlsson has been heavily involved in
working with science and medical research. Medical records prove
that Pharmacia Allergon AB, a 50 year old company, has spent $200
million in the research and development of G=F6sta=92s pollen
extracts. To add to this, dozens of prominent researchers
worldwide have studied the pollen extract and through tests on
animals and humans, have found it to be beneficial in the fight
against various major diseases.  It=92s also interesting to note
that US Olympic athletes, collegiate track teams, professional
footballers, tennis players, world champion boxers and surfers -
are also using these products.  And I have it on good authority
that the Swedish National soccer team are using POLBAX.  Not bad
for a simple country boy with no scientific background!

With regard to the UFO/ET claims, I am sure that G=F6sta
experienced an encounter. But unfortunately the debris he found
at the site has been tested, and it appears that there is
inconclusive evidence to prove that it=92s extraterrestrial.
However, my  Swedish source told me that if you touched the
crystal it would give you a rash. Whilst I=92m aware that
telepathic contact is not always a case for credibility, I know
of other (in my opinion) credible experiencers who have related
similar stories. More recently, an insider, Dan Sherman, has
authored a book describing his communication with
extraterrestrials - and this was apparently achieved  by using
some form of mental communication. After all, do we really expect
that ET=92s would talk the same languages as we Earthlings?

G=F6sta Carlsson is in his twilight years now, and hardly needs the
hassle of proving his experience.  He=92s been there and done it,
and although some years back, he was urged to co-author a book
with a Swedish ufologist, his story has since been distorted and
often discredited, mostly due to the fact that it=92s been more
than 50 years since the incident took place. I know he=92s
considering doing a book in English - in time for the new
millennium, and maybe this time he will include a detailed
account of what alleges to be the real source of a new scientific
breakthrough!  If all else fails - let=92s hope that he=92ll be
remembered by future generations as being the pioneer of one of
the world=92s most incredible medical discoveries.

Long live G=F6sta Carlsson!

For more information - if you read Swedish  -
< http://hem2.passagen.se/krafter/pollenku.htm>
*******************************************************************
Permission to distribute this information on the Internet is granted
providing the authors and Hot Gossip UK are credited. Photographs are
copyright, and cannot be published without permission.
Hot Gossip UK - www.hotgossip.co.uk

Georgina Bruni
Editor in Chief
*******************************************************************











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                 Re: The Millennium Report - April 1, 1998 -

From: psa@direct.ca (Paul Anderson)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:36:44 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 15:45:08 -0500
Subject: Re: The Millennium Report - April 1, 1998 -



Re: The Millennium Report - April 1, 1998

Please note that the correct address for
The Millennium Group and The Millennium Report
should be:

http://mypage.direct.ca/p/psa/

(no www in address)

Thank you!

Paul Anderson

Director
THE MILLENNIUM GROUP
Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue, Vancouver, BC  V6J 1J4
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://mypage.direct.ca/p/psa/

Director
CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA
Affiliate of Circles Phenomenon Research International
Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue, Vancouver, BC  V6J 1J4
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310






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                         Ufo Cult Moving To Michigan

From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com> [Robert Gates]
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 23:50:27 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 18:38:02 -0500
Subject: Ufo Cult Moving To Michigan


Taiwanese Sect Off to Michigan

.c The Associated Press

 GARLAND, Texas (AP) - The faith still burns for the followers of
the True Way, though their divine path to salvation now leads to
Michigan.

The Taiwanese sect shrugged off the unrealized promises of their
leader: That God would appear in person Tuesday, or on television
last week on Channel 18.
Seven months ago, followers moved to this suburb of Dallas -
chosen because it's name sounds like ``God's land'' - to wait.

Most of the 160 followers in white clothes and white cowboy hats
now will move to Michigan. There, leader Chen Hon-ming says, God
will gather all worthy souls in a flying saucer and shuttle them
to Gary, Ind., to save them from a nuclear holocaust.

``Teacher Chen,'' leader of God's Salvation Church, did not admit
failure.
Instead, he gave a crowd of followers, reporters, neighbors and
police five minutes to decide whether to stone him to death. They
didn't.

``You yourself have become gods,'' Chen told the crowd. ``Now,
don't think of yourselves as just piles of bones and flesh or you
will die in the Great Tribulation.''

Speaking through an interpreter, he had a few warnings for those
who would listen:

Don't eat meat, or expect nightmares involving the dead animals,
and indigestion. Watch out for machinery - those who fail to care
for cars and trucks risk being run over while asleep in bed.
Other items like computers, toasters, and refrigerators may begin
moving around rooms and talking.

Church member Lin Hung-chih, 38, said he and others who follow
Chen and his ``zhen dao,'' or True Way, movement, had expected
the earlier prophecies to come true.

``Some were disappointed,'' Lin said. ``But I was not. It was a
beautiful experience.''

And he still has faith. Chen's sacred vision of flying saucers
``gives us hope,'' Lin said.

Chen said he and 10 followers will leave Garland today on a
flight to Buffalo, N.Y., before moving to Michigan to await
further instructions from God. Most of the rest will follow,
selling the houses they bought here in September.

About 20 of Chen's followers plan to return to Taiwan this week,
said Walter Hsu, a banker who had befriended followers of Chen's
movement.

The rest expect to be gone from Garland by May 10, said police
Lt. Don Martin.

Gone, too, was be the crush of media that descended on this
quiet, middle- class suburb for the promised TV appearance last
week, down on Tuesday to about 15 reporters.

With the seven-month buildup about over, feelings were mixed
among residents of the leafy, winding street where the sect
bought homes.

``I think P.T. Barnum couldn't have put together a carnival like
this,'' said Dick Beardsley, 81.

Others said they were pleasant neighbors. ``It was nice to see
them walking and cycling in groups,'' said Kia Vaandrager, 66.

The Rev. Jack David Daniels, the pastor of the First Baptist
Church, had his own predictions.

``People like this are a sign that we are living in the last
days,'' he said.

AP-NY-04-01-98 0455EST

 Copyright 1997 The Associated Press.  The information  contained in the AP
news report may not be published,  broadcast, rewritten or otherwise
distributed without  prior written authority of The Associated Press.






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                             Hot Gossip UK (two)

From: georgina@easynet.co.uk [Georgina Bruni]
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 19:33:08 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 20:16:12 -0500
Subject: Hot Gossip UK (two)

Hot Gossip UK - The Unexplained Page - UFO Updates
Part Two

http://www.camelot-group.com/hotgossip/unexgoss.html
By Georgina Bruni
**************************************************************************
Brief Interview with Peter Robbins in London (UK)
Nick v Nick

An account of the Bentwaters-Woodbridge UFO Incident

On three successive nights in late December 1980, England's rural
Suffolk was the setting for what is now known as the most
significant military UFO incident in the history of the UK.
Larry Warren and Peter Robbins are the authors of  LEFT AT EAST
GATE, which is a comprehensive account of the incident which
involved Larry Warren.

In December 1980,  Warren, was a US Air Force Security Police
specialist, was stationed at RAF Bentwaters, a NATO base in
the United Kingdom.  On the night of 28th December he and
others were to witness a (landed) UFO. The following day the
witnesses  were debriefed, ordered to sign statements
contradicting what they had seen and warned to tell no one
about the incident, and told if they did  "Bullets are cheap."

Larry Warren received an honorable discharge from the USAF,
and has since been involved in Public Relations and Broadcasting.
Peter Robbins holds a B.F.A from New York's School of Visual Arts
and is a researcher of Ufology for more than 20 years. Both live
in New York City.

Georgina Bruni : Peter, It's a pleasure to see you back in
London.  How's it going?

Peter Robbins: Georgina, I came to the UK to do a QUEST
conference  for GRAHAM BIRDSALL, who had called me to say
that CHARLES HALT had just cancelled. Halt had decided not to
discuss his connections because he's writing a book about his
involvement in the Rendlesham Forest incident, and I expect his
publishers have suggested that he hold back on public
engagements until publication. As far as I can gather, Halt's
book is finished - so you may see it on sale in late Spring.  I
suppose I have him to thank for my trip to England and for being
here today with you guys.  After the conference I went down to
Suffolk to meet with friends and colleagues, and on Friday I
returned to London to do a BUFORA lecture with NICK POPE.

Georgina Bruni: Didn't you and LARRY WARREN have a sighting
near the original Rendlesham incidents.

Peter Robbins:  Yes, it's detailed in our book LEFT AT EAST GATE.
It happened on February 18th 1988. It was a real turning point for
me. Imagine yourself, a researcher working on the case, not expecting
anything like this! You visit the location with one of the key witnesses
 of the incident, and you experience multiple sightings of UFOs.
All you have at this point is your objectivity and your dedication to
writing a non fiction book.  You are not part of the story - then all of a
sudden - you are! What do you do? Do you tell the world or keep it to
yourself?  This happened on the first night of my first visit, and I have
returned to Suffolk nine times since then. I really feel terribly pulled to
the area of the sightings and have revisited it a total of 56 times. I
don't think of it as deadly mystical - I think it's almost pragmatic until
you are able to break the code and solve the crime.  So I guess that
means I'll be visiting the place for the rest of my life.  Reconstructing
 the 1988 incident for the reader, I spent more than a year listening
and re-listening to the tapes we made of our sighting.  There's a
 technicality called Voice Stress Analysis (VST) which measures
stress on the human voice.  I don't know which agencies employ this
in the UK, but they are employed by the US Justice Department,
FBI etc.  If our tapes were run through this procedure, the stress
 in our voices would be judged as absolutely authentic.

Georgina Bruni:  Since the publication of the book, I believe you
and Larry have found some new witnesses.

Peter Robbins: Just to mention: as a by product of working on
the publication, I have developed some good friendships in the
area (Suffolk) some of them are like family now.  Yes. Since the
book came out last Spring, probably about 10 of the original
witnesses have come forward and made statements to Larry.
 Incidentally, I have received statements and accounts from
other current and former Air Force personnel who were relieved to
discuss the incidents described in our book.  In ten years of
research, not a single witness confidence was broken, except
for Halt. During our interview with him, he asked us to turn the tape
off three times. Earlier, Halt had told Larry. "I think you sincerely
believe what you are saying and you might be right, and I can't say
you're lying, but I find flaws here and there that I have to have
resolved for myself."  Later, when speaking informally to a group
of British ufologists, Halt was asked about Larry Warren, and he
told the group that Larry had not been there and that his account
was untrue. If anything was not true, it was the colonel's answer.
In my opinion, he broke a confidence when he answered that
question.

Georgina Bruni: Can you tell the readers what Halt said off the
record then?

Peter Robbins: The full interview is in LEFT AT EAST GATE. With
the tape switched off he told us three things. One of those was -
that light beams had penetrated the hardened bunkers of
Bentwaters' weapons security area.

Georgina Bruni: In the light of the latest book on the subject,
UFO CRASH LANDING authored by JENNY RANDLES.  It states on
the cover - The Full Story of the Rendlesham Forest Close Encounter
what's your thoughts on this? Do you think that the full story has
been told?

Peter Robbins: Jenny Randles has reported inaccurate data about
Larry Warren. It's a shame that her new book has in its title - CRASH.
There was no crash related evidence. Our book was not written to
even suggest that it be the end of the story, but was written to be
used as a research tool.  Other researchers are already picking
up parts - grabbing it and running with it.  I am delighted!

Georgina Bruni: So will you be continuing your work on this case?

Peter Robbins:  Well, as to my continued research on this case, I'm
hoping for a much needed break - but no - you'll be hearing more
from Larry and me.

LEFT AT EAST GATE is now available in CD ROM.  Both the
book and the CD ROM can be ordered direct from their site.
www.leftateastgate.com

You will also find more details on the Bentwaters/Woodbridge
case at the site, along with pictures and reviews.
_______________________________________________

NICK v NICK

Last month we published a News Release from ufologist and
author, Nick Redfern, who has been instrumental in retrieving
important Air Force and MoD government declassified files.
This was followed by a statement from Nick Pope, the man from
the Ministry, and now known as the UK's real Fox Mulder because
he is employed at the Ministry of Defence - and used to be in
charge of  the UFO desk there.  Nick Pope is a ufologist and is
an editor with Hot Gossip UK.  He is also the author of OPEN
SKIES, CLOSED MINDS and THE UNINVITED, and wrote the
foreword for Nick Redfern's book A COVERT AGENDA.

Recently, there appears to be some tension between these
two lovely guys, mostly because Redfern is claiming that the
MoD department Sec (AS) that Pope was in charge of, did not
deal specifically with major UFO reports etc., but that the reports
were dealt with at higher levels.  Pope denies this, but does admit
that there were other departments dealing with various reports,
and his claim is that  - you wouldn't be reading about it in freely
available files if there was some covert and sinister effort to hide
it.

However, Redfern appears to be in possession of some very
interesting files, and has written a four page statement
explaining these. Unfortunately we do not have the space to
publish it in this month's issue, but interested parties can obtain
it directly from Nick Redfern at 20 Paradise Lane, Pelsall,
Walsall, West Midlands. WS3 4NH.

I asked Nick Pope if he wanted to comment on this and his
reply is as follows." Many ufologists have talked the talk, I have
walked the walk. I have nothing to add to my earlier statement."
If you missed the last issue and would like to obtain a copy,
please e-mail georgina@easynet.co.uk
______________________________________

Permission to distribute this information on the Internet is granted
providing the authors and Hot Gossip UK are credited. Photographs
may be copyright, and cannot be published without permission.
Hot Gossip UK - www.hotgossip.co.uk

Georgina Bruni
Editor in Chief
_______________________________________










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                      Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 19:37:38 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 22:06:42 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

> From: "Scott Reed" <sreed@zoomnet.net>
> To: <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"
> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 08:02:10 -0500

<snip>

> >If you read your Bible carefully you will discover that a large
> >part of it does involves predictions, including many which are
> >identified as "end time" predictions.  It also has some of the
> >earliest accounts of UFOs on record.  What do you mean then by
> >"Keep all Scripture in the context in which it was written."?
> >Except for these "end time" predictions (we are not there just
> >yet) the Bible has also been shown to have an unprecedented 100%
> >accuracy with regard to fulfilled prophecies, at least according
> >to The Learning Channel and some more reliable sources.

> I'm not a bible scholar but I'm wondering if you can point out
> any instance where a detailed prediction from the bible has come
> true?  Beyond some 'highly intuitive' observations, I'm not aware
> that the Bible holds anything of special 'psychic' interest.

Hi Scott,

I am certainly not a Bible scholar either but at least I have
tried to verify certain claims.  One of these is in regard to
Bible predictions that have been fulfilled (unlike our
mischievous UFO "aliens" who have also made predictions, none of
which have come true).

My Toronto area friend, Grant R. Jeffrey, has researched this and
written the excellent best selling book titled "Armageddon -
Appointment With Destiny".  Without going into detail, he gives
many, many examples where Bible prophecies have been fulfilled to
the letter, and when a future date is given, also fulfilled to
the exact day.  Grant also shows statistically, that for all
these prophecies to have been fulfilled by chance alone, would be
have been impossible.

This fact has so disturbed some Bible scholars that they have
suggested that certain books of the Bible and even certain verses
were written AFTER these prophecies were fulfilled.  Give us a
break, I say - early Bible readers were not stupid.

Although I disagree on many things with Grant, I cannot argue
with these facts he has researched well and presented in his book
for anyone to check out for himself/herself.

What do you mean by "...special 'psychic' interest."?

Nick






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                Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 18:54:03 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 21:08:11 -0500
Subject: Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara


> From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 04:40:26 +0100
> Subject: Researchers Find 7000 Year Old 'Stonehenge' In Sahara

<snip>

> Copyright =A91998 Nando.net
> Copyright =A91998 The Associated Press


> NEW YORK (April 1, 1998 3:07 p.m. EST http://www.nando.net) --
> Researchers have found a complex of slabs and stones in the Sahara
> Desert that might be the oldest known monument built with astronomical
> considerations in mind -- far older than England's Stonehenge.

> It was constructed by nomadic cattle-herders as much as 7,000 years ago
> in southern Egypt, and probably was intended for rituals rather than
> astronomical observations, said J. McKim Malville of the University of
> Colorado at Boulder.

<snip>

Hi Stig,

At the two web sites below you will find details about two other
stonehenges or megaliths.

Ed Keall, an archeologist with the Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto
(where, by the way, an extraterrestrial being or "elf" from Ecuador will
soon be examined, but that's another story), found another stonehenge in
Yemen (not too far from where I used to work at one time, but this too is
another story) that they think dates back to about 4000 B.C.  You can find
information on this at

http://www.rom.on.ca/news/keall.html

Finally, yours truly, has beaten Richard Hoagland to the
discovery of yet another stonehenge, this time on Mars.  Note the
many tall dark megaliths and the long shadows they cast.  See
this proof of artificial structures built by intelligent beings
on Mars a full 4 days before the conclusive Cydonia "Face on
Mars" pictures are shown to whole world. ;)

www.jpl.nasa.gov/marsnews/img/87579b.jpg

Nick Balaskas









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               'Project Snowflake' - A Discovery Channel Hoax

From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 16:26:22 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 22:00:42 -0500
Subject: 'Project Snowflake' - A Discovery Channel Hoax

> Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 01:16:00 -0800
> From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Project Snowflake' - A Discovery Channel Hoax

> >Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:49:17 -0500
> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >From: xzone@webgate.net (The 'X' Chronicles & 'X' Zone) [Rob McConnell]
> >Subject: "PROJECT SNOWFLAKE" A DISCOVERY CHANNEL HOAX

> Dear Sirs (Project Snowflake et. al.)

> > Wednesday, April 1, 1998   NR 98-12

> > UFO CONSPIRACY EXISTS ACCORDING TO EXN POLL OF CANADIANS "Project
> > Snowflake" Revealed as April Fool's Internet Stunt

<more snip>

> > During the stunt, visitors to the site were polled.  The results
> > are remarkable:
> >      *  63% of respondents believe that UFOs exist
> >      *  63% think that UFO technology exists on Earth
> >      *  74% believe that the Government is hiding UFO technology

> I don't get it. IF these figures are for real, the indication is
> that some 11% of all Canadians polled (at least), do NOT
> "believe" in UFOs but DO think the Government is hiding UFO
> Technology. Are you telling us that 11% of Canadians believe the
> Gov't is hiding non-existant technology?

If you think of the term "UFO" applying to manmade spacecraft of the
type generally described as UFOs, then these figures make sense.


> Or, is this yet another April Fools day joke?

> - Larry Hatch   <larryhat@jps.net>


--

Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
ICQ Pager 6797092





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                              Filer's Files #13

From: Majorstar <Majorstar@aol.com> [George A. Filer]
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 18:40:35 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 21:02:50 -0500
Subject: Filer's Files #13


Filer's Files #13-1998  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer:  MUFON Eastern Director,
April  2, 1998  Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020

A world wide pattern of sightings and possible life on Mars
develops further.

NEW JERSEY

Several callers claim they observed UFOs and call the New Jersey
FM 101.5 morning talk show with Jim Gerhardt. Tom Benson, Sam
Sherman and Richard DeTaranto called to tell me that a woman and
her daughter saw UFOs on Rt. 70 in Pemberton. She said there were
many UFOs and lights darting around from 9:00 to 11:00 PM on
March 29, 1998. Apparently, several other witnesses also reported
various colored lights and UFOs flying around Mc Guire Air Force
Base area and as far north as Long Island.  Witnesses claimed
lights moved strangely darting around at low level. The lights
appeared to be rotating balls of energy with several lights
moving in a circle around the others.
Hundreds of lights were reported over the area. They seemed
balloon or bubble like. One caller indicated she was frightened
by the lights and  watched them parked on the side of the road
for several hours. I called the Air Force who denied any
knowledge of the UFOs.  A meteor shower was observed on Saturday
night in the same general area.

VIRGINIA

Dennis Hawley was in a parking lot in Virginia Beach when an
object caught his eye  in the clear blue sky at 12:25  PM on
March 11, 1997. The UFO was flying very high and fast before
disappearing in the distance. Dennis initially thought the object
was a balloon, but realized it was flying too fast and straight.
The UFO was first observed in the southeast flying in from the
Atlantic Ocean about three miles away.  The object flew in a
straight course to the northwest into a wind. . The object was
described as a round metallic disc, glowing and extremely fast.
The size was comparable to a button held at arm's length or about
real size of an airliner.  However, he noted it was very
difficult to estimate the exact size. The witness is a member of
MUFON and is a Human Resources Administrator for a local
hospital. Thanks to Rick Atristain, Virginia State MUFON Director
and Dennis Hawley.

INDIANA, KENTUCKY, ILLINOIS UFOs

Jerry Sievers,  Indiana MUFON Section Director reports that there
were numerous UFO reports near Princeton and surrounding areas of
Southern Indiana on March 27, 1998. A big, large ring of UFOs was
observed near the Toyota manufacturing plant in Princeton. A very
large gray triangle with five lights on one side was seen north
of Petersburg. Nocturnal lights were reported over northern
Kentucky. WTVW, Fox 7 News from Evansville, Indiana broadcast
that numerous UFOs were sighted from Illinois across Indiana into
Kentucky. The station claimed to have getting reports as fast as
they record them. There was an apparent large upswing in reports
on Friday night and again on Saturday night. They were of three
types. The large triangle with headlights was the most
spectacular. Numerous fast moving  yellow colored lights were
reported and two parallel lines of three to five lights. Many
people reported observing structure on the craft near Evansville.
The television station had three hundred UFO reports over the
weekend. UFOs were reported from Olney, Illinois to Vincennes,
Petersburg, Princeton and Evansville, Indiana and south  into
Owensboro, Kentucky. Crop circles were also reported near
Huntingburg, Indiana by the local newspaper. One interesting
factor was that there were also severe storms in progress through
out the entire area.

KENTUCKY

 Clint Stone, the ASD Kentucky MUFON writes: "I stepped outside
around 7:15 p.m., to take a look.  Within minutes I noticed three
objects that were each sporting a white and red flashing light
(there was no sound). What was peculiar about them is that they
were flying in a perfect triangle; it appeared almost as if they
were one object because of their well-defined formation.  I
watched them with great interest as they flew northwest towards
the tree-filled horizon. Before they got there, however, this
extremely bright, whitish-gold light descended from a nearby
cloud and flew towards the other lights. It was as if it "turned
on" the other three somehow, as they began to glow the same color
as that one.  I watched with amazement as they silently neared
the trees. I moved into a position to get a better look and as I
did, two of them doubled back and headed straight for me. One of
them flew off to my right, while the other one (now back to its
white-red flashing light "stage") flew right over the top of my
head. That's when I noticed a small triangular object with
golden-colored lights on all three corners flying with its tip
turned towards a "plane-like" object with red and white lights on
its "wings." I thought a crash was imminent; they were that
close. As I continued to watch, the tip light began to generate
an even more brilliant golden light.
They were directly over me at this time, and I could tell that
the small triangle was heading slightly southeast, while the
object with the white-red combination was heading due east. As
they flew along, the small triangle merged with the white-red
object, almost as if it were eating it. The now merged object
then turned on its side and continued flying while the triangle
was nowhere to be seen. (That was one tricky maneuver if you ask
me!) I kept watching as it flew out of sight. Throughout the
duration of my observation I counted around 15 of these white-red
flashing lights all heading in the same direction. I heard a
helicopter at one point, as well, but was never able to spot it.
Later on, I heard an airplane fly over my head that had the
regulation red-green-white combo of lights." Thanks to Clint
Stone KY MUFON & brazel@webtv.net

CALIFORNIA

On February 10, 1998, Jerry Goudy, 28 reports he and his patrol
partner saw a strange glow arising over the water of the bay near
Point Loma.  There was significant fog underneath the UFO as it
sat, motionless above the waves at 5:46 PM. It was making a high
pitched whining noise that raised and lowered in pitch.  The
lights were dimming and brightening slightly as it rotated
clockwise.  The craft was 75 to 100 ft in diameter.  Jerry
stated, "As I approached the water in my patrol car, it slowly
glided out to sea at an altitude of 20 feet.  I attempted radio
contact with base, but my radio would not respond. Suddenly, the
lights got brighter and the whining pitch increased to an almost
intolerable noise. The object then dove into the water and moved
away from shore at a very rapid pace, leaving no wake.  The light
disappeared out of sight after 18 minutes." Thanks to B.U.F.O.D.,
Ben at http://www.abcfield.force9.co.uk and Bruce Cornet at
bcornet@monmouth.com

BERMUDA

ISUR reports that Peter C. Wilson observed two very bright lights
flying towards him at a very low altitude on March 7, 1998. They
were moving at a terrific rate of speed issuing great clouds of
smoke. The UFOs made no noise climbing rapidly out of sight at
19:50 A.S.T. The UFOs left behind a big cloud of smoke mass which
lingered for about ten minutes. Wilson said, "I at first thought
it to be an aircraft, but there where no
navigation/anti-collision lights to be seen.  Many sightings were
reported from all over the island, calls were made to local
police, press, etc. I had my scanner on at the time tuned to the
aviation frequencies, as I am an aviator, and listen to air
traffic over Bermuda. Three airline pilots reported the sighting
to New York Center, who in turn reported they only had the three
airliners on their radar.
The U.S. Navy made a statement, that they had conducted a
submarine missile launch, and what we saw were the boosters
falling back to earth. I have a great dispute with this
explanation.    First, Sub launched missiles use solid fuel
systems, and don't use disposable boosters, as space is limited.
Second, How could boosters travel in a level flight attitude,
then climb to altitude, and at such speed, make no noise, and
leave such a massive cloud, obscuring our view of the  islands?
Why test so close to a populated land area? Thanks to ISUR John
Thompson and Peter Charles Wilson Eleys Harbour Sandys,
pchwilso@ibl.bm

CANADA

Kenny Young reports that Amy H. sent the following E-mail. "I
hope you do not mind me asking your opinion? My husband and I
were driving westbound on the 401 near Oshawa Ontario on March
28th at  around 7:30.  We noticed three circular objects so we
pulled off the road to watch.  They were cloudy looking white
balls.  They moved in a circular pattern, then would come and
join in the center. Then they move out, go around in a circle and
repeat the process joining in the center again. Thanks to Ken
Young at TASK.

CANADA   STUDY FINDS 10% RISE IN 1997 UFO SIGHTINGS

Canadian astronomer and UFO researcher Chris Rutkowski claims a
new study by a national research group has found that the skies
are getting more crowded with UFOs with a 10% rise in 1997. "We
were surprised to learn there were so many reports last year,"
said astronomer Chris Rutkowski, research coordinator for Ufology
Research of Manitoba (UFOROM), which collects and studies UFO
reports.
"There were 284 UFO sightings reported in Canada in 1997, up
about 10 per cent from 1996."  Last year's cases ranged from a
group of people chased by a flying saucer near Tuktoyaktuk to a
giant boomerang buzzing a 20-year Coast Guard veteran in Sault
Ste. Marie.  Rutkowski said sightings reported to researchers and
UFO groups from BC to the Maritimes were collected by UFOROM and
added to a database for statistical analyses.  Among the
findings:  Most UFOs were reported in the province of British
Columbia (35%) and Ontario (25%).  UFOs were seen in winter as
likely as summer; no national monthly trend was found.  Almost
three-quarters of all UFOs are seen at night, and most of these
around 11:00 p.m.  Most UFOs are watched for a long time; the
average length of observation was 20 minutes. UFOs are witnessed
by more than one person at a time; most cases have two witnesses.
 The typical Hollywood- style flying-saucer-shaped UFOs are now
less common than triangular ones.
Only 4.6% of all the UFO reports were labeled "higher-quality
unknowns."  Most UFO sightings were either misidentifications of
things such as planes or planets, or we simply didn't have enough
information. "None of these 'unknowns' prove there are aliens out
there," Rutkowski said, "but we are left with some cases which
investigators cannot explain."  For additional information,
contact: MUFON Ontario, 416-532-9371, UFO*BC, 604-432-4113, SOS
OVNI (Quebec), 514-536-0140, MUFON Nova Scotia, 902-832-1984 or
Chris through UFOROM, 204-269-7553 and circulated by UFO UPdates
(updates@globalserve.net) Editors Note: I have almost 5,000 hours
in the air and seldom is any aircraft observed for 20 minutes.
Most aircraft are heading for a destination and do not stay in
one area for long. There are exceptions such as pilot training,
but sightings for longer than a few minutes is a good indicator
you may have a legitimate UFO. Even flares burn for around five
minutes.

SCOTLAND

Dave Ledger and Skywatch report that the sightings of anomalous
lights and heavy military involvement, from the West Coast of
Scotland are still coming in. There definitely seems to be
something odd going on over there, following many witness reports
of black helicopters and military jets chasing UFOs over East
Kilbride, Scotland.  Strange lights are being seen all over the
local area. This kind of activity is relatively unknown to the
local people of East Kilbride and certainly seems to support the
fact that something out of the ordinary is going on. The
helicopters seemed to be searching for something or someone.
Thanks to Dave Ledger and Skywatch Internationaland, Kieth Barber
for his call.

ENGLAND

Max Burns is the chief investigator for a series of spectacular
UFO encounters over central England, last year.  Allegedly, six
Tornado, RAF jets were in pursuit of a 300 foot Flying Triangle
UFO, which hovered, at times, within feet of houses in Dronfield,
Sheffield. The British Geological survey instrumentation at three
sites on March 24, 1997 recorded two air burst explosions. It is
believed a UFO conducted a hostile attack on aircraft that were
in pursuit. Apparently, one RAF jet was lost and two bodies were
recovered from a mountain reservoir the next morning. All air
traffic was excluded from the area. BUFORA will release a
detailed report on April 4th, in London, via a video presentation
taped by Miles Johnston. The full report will be available from
Lionel Beer.

BUFORA  is also expected to release at the BUFORA AGM,  footage
of a Flying Triangle filmed moving from Norfolk to Suffolk on the
East Coast of England.
The video was taped by D. J. Spoor of a large craft flying along
at about fifty miles per hour along the coast. Full details  have
been released to the Press Association, & Sky News (London).
Thanks to MJ.

IRELAND

French Mirage Jets have been witnessed by hundreds during the
last several months in pursuit of a large triangle shaped craft
over the Irish West coast.
The French Mirage jets have been operating at maximum range to
intercept and photograph the huge triangular UFOs. They have
apparently violated Irish airspace while doing so.

MALAYSIA

Skywatch International reports that a group of students at Taman
Orkid saw an object like a saucer on March 14, 1998. The UFO was
at a distance of 100 meters and about the size of two cars. It
hovered for a few minutes near Minguan. Twelve year old,Mohd
Firdaus Rashid, said, "The saucers seemed to want to land on the
near side of the field. The saucers beamed their lights at us a
few times and shut off their lights before they flew away into
the sky." Mohd and his 6 friends were playing when the sighting
happened near a mosque.
His friends, Mohd Nazrin Ozali, 11, said the objects produced the
sound  of an aeroplane, but not too noisy. The color of the craft
was gray. The saucer did not rotate and we saw four wings and a
light beam on to the field. There was no vibration, but they
could  feel blowing wind from the objects. Another student Ihsan
Ibrahim 12, said  at first he thought the objects were stars,
when they suddenly arrived at the field.  The students waved
their hands at the objects. March 15, 1998.  Alor Star , Kedah -
A Simpang Empat and Skywatch International.

DANGER IN OUR SKIES" UFO TV PROGRAM

The UPN network will present the first U.S. showing of
sensational UFO footage from Mexico on Monday, April 6, starting
at 8:00 PM ET/PT. The program, titled "Danger in Our Skies: The
New UFO Threat," is produced by Henry Winkler and features
daylight UFO footage shot over Mexico City on August 6, 1997, and
footage shot over Phoenix, Arizona.  According to Ann Daniel,
"The special interviews air traffic controllers, UFO experts and
pilots." The program will ask the question, "Do UFOs represent a
"threat to global safety?"

MARS

During the last couple weeks we discussed the possibility of
ancient intelligent life on Mars.  Several sites near the south
pole of Mars and Cydonia have structures that appear to be
artificially formed. The site at Nod if not a combination of
pixilziation and transmission errors is particularly interesting.
This site appears to be cultural site the could have been used
for growing plants and producing oxygen. The site is on the edge
of snow and ice fields composed of carbon dioxide. John Kramar
writes I was looking at the Liz Edwards' and NASA images, I
estimate that Nod is at 83=B0S  43=B0W on Mars and the top wall is
about 45 miles long.  As noted by others the "structures" on Mars
are monumental in scale.  By the way, there is an area NASA has
labeled the Inca City that has many contiguous rectangular walled
areas, each about 4 to 5 kilometers across.  It is located
"nearby" at 81.8=B0S - 59.1=B0W.  Cheers, John Kramar,
jkramar@mindspring.com. Note : It is obvious that NASA as found
some interesting images in the general area of Nod giving it the
descriptive name, "The Inca City." The Inca's built a strange
series of ancient cities in Peru prior to being conquered by
Spain. The stone structures are noted for their precision and
powerful design. The Inca=92s also believed they were being visited
by spacemen.

The Media Relations Office at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory
(NASA) replied to my query about the structures at Nod and Inca
by simply indicating their Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft is
about to begin  a summer-long set of scientific observations of
the red  planet. These will include several  attempts to take
images of the Cydonia region. The. Global Surveyor will pass over
the so- called "Face on Mars," Cydonia region on April 5 at 12:33
a.m. Attempts to re- photograph the sites will occur during two
additional passes, but it will not be possible to predict on
which orbit the spacecraft will pass closest to the Face until
the Global Surveyor has established a stable orbit. The sites
will be visible about once every eight days, and we'll have a  30
to 50-percent chance of capturing images of the sites each time."
The exact locations of specific features in the Cydonia region
are not precisely known. As for the "Face on Mars" feature, "most
scientists  believe that everything we've seen on Mars is of
natural  origin," said Dr. Carl Pilcher, science director for
Solar System Exploration in NASA. "However, we also believe it is
appropriate to seek to resolve speculation about features in the
Cydonia  region. New images of the Cydonia region will be
available on JPL's Mars news  site at:
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/marsnews and http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov .

The new book, Eagles Disobey, A Case for Inca City, Mars just may
help answer the  question did life once exist on Mars. Dr. Dan
Burisch was checking out the NSSDC Website,  about a year and a
half ago and he noticed an image identified as "Inca  City" which
had some strange crosshatched patterns. Up near the top of  the
'boxes' was a face staring back up out of the sand. It was
incredible, so he decided to look around for more objects. It was
obvious NASA scientists also saw the images and named it the Inca
City. A team was assembled and began more than a year=92s
investigation. Scientist Dr. Dan Burisch did the image analysis,
while B. J. Wolf wrote the book. It contains over 170 images from
NASA's  own archives. They found the most remarkable collection
of objects, structures, glyphs and symbols and more Faces. One
group of symbols forms a circle around a central  figure and one
resembles a flying dinosaur. These objects, often many miles long
on the surface of Mars, might be  beacons, or signposts. The book
contains images of monolithic drawings, etchings, and monuments
on Mars. You can order the book at Riskers/NUFOIA:
http://www.riskers.org/eagles.

The Great Catselas Pyramid is particularly spectacular because
the shadow that it casts, in fact the entire object seems to
offer reverse light. Instead of creating a dark shadow, the area
is lighter suggesting lights or a crystalline matrix or glass,
that  gathers light. They found a face imbedded in a triangle and
another within a circle! All of these objects are related by
complex geometry of triangles, circles, and the 19.5 degree
angles. We can speculate Mars acquired an advanced  civilization
in the distant past.
Eventually their atmosphere gradually deteriorated. The Martian=92s
tried to build enclosed self sufficient structures, built giant
signaling devices and attempted space travel.  Since there is
little evidence our ancient Earth cultures could reach Mars, we
can speculate the strange symbols and beliefs were brought here
by ancient astronauts. The book=92s thesis is that there is a
distinct link between what was found on Mars and ancient cultures
of earth.
This seems to lock down the case for artificially objects on Mars
created by intelligent life forms as opposed to natural causes.
The author claims Mars is a treasure trove just waiting for us.
We hope to have some momentous announcements in the coming weeks.


Please send your sightings to George Filer at Majorstar@aol.com.





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 3

                      Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:19:17 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 07:49:21 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"


>Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 19:37:38 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

>> From: "Scott Reed" <sreed@zoomnet.net>
>> To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"
>> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 08:02:10 -0500

>> I'm not a bible scholar but I'm wondering if you can point out
>> any instance where a detailed prediction from the bible has come
>> true?  Beyond some 'highly intuitive' observations, I'm not aware
>> that the Bible holds anything of special 'psychic' interest.

>Hi Scott,

>I am certainly not a Bible scholar either but at least I have
>tried to verify certain claims.  One of these is in regard to
>Bible predictions that have been fulfilled (unlike our
>mischievous UFO "aliens" who have also made predictions, none of
>which have come true).

>My Toronto area friend, Grant R. Jeffrey, has researched this and
>written the excellent best selling book titled "Armageddon -
>Appointment With Destiny".  Without going into detail, he gives
>many, many examples where Bible prophecies have been fulfilled to
>the letter, and when a future date is given, also fulfilled to
>the exact day.  Grant also shows statistically, that for all
>these prophecies to have been fulfilled by chance alone, would be
>have been impossible.

>This fact has so disturbed some Bible scholars that they have
>suggested that certain books of the Bible and even certain verses
>were written AFTER these prophecies were fulfilled.  Give us a
>break, I say - early Bible readers were not stupid.

Nick,

You do have to keep that possibility in mind, though, since in
all likelihood the Gospels weren't written until well after 70
A.D. (they're not even mentioned in any literature by name until
around 140 A.D.!), 70 A.D. being the date of destruction of the
Temple by the Romans, and most scholars have assumed that the
prophecy of Matthew 24:2 refers to this event.  Hence they figure
it's an after-the-fact prophecy, and therefore no prophecy at
all.  I myself am not convinced that the prophecy referred to
that event, however.

Jim Deardorff






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   Apr > Apr 3

                      PROJECT-1947, NICAP & Peer Review

From: " Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 20:24:16 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 07:40:34 -0500
Subject: PROJECT-1947, NICAP & Peer Review


>UFO UpDates Mailing List

>PROJECT-1947: Peer Review

>From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET>
>Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 20:18:42 -0800
>Fwd Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:51:33 -0500
>Subject: PROJECT-1947: Peer Review

>I guess we don't really want peer-review.  When we get it, we
>cry, "foul" or "naysayers."  If someone demands a good hard look
>at something, they become negative.


JC:   Or, perhaps we're just not done examining. This "peer" has
some respectful comments. This is not an attack on Jan or anyone
but rather a personal effort for me to get at the truth (data)
regarding the "Stokes" case so I might solidify proof to myself I
wasn't nuts all these years. This is the only stake I have in
this. Nothing more, nothing less.

I don't think Jan's post had anything to do with me directly (at
least I hope not). In the brief time we've known each other
(electronically) we've supported each other a lot and I still
support him on most things. However, I've got some responses and
questions concerning "Stokes." To determine the truth for me,
they have to be answered all the way. Maybe they have been
already, but I, and anyone else interested, need to hear them and
respond to them if needs be.

The following comments are from one who wound up being a NICAP
supporter and member (1966-1977) and who also had his own
"experience" and thus had great motivation to at least attempt to
do some (unpublished until the NET) research for the last 30
years. (Other than some copies of a portion of which I sent to
CUFOS a few years back...)

Jan had said:

>Stokes:  What is the real import of this case? Is it the
>sunburn, em effects?  There are certainly better cases with
>*verified* multiple witnesses! Correct me if I am wrong, but no
>other witnesses were located.

JC:   Jan, you may be correct and this may have been printed
somewhere, but I have to confess my ignorance to it at the
moment. (Again, I am not implying this doesn't exist.) However,
if a researcher asks an honest question, has a timing connection
between three cases, one of which was investigated by Bluebook,
Condon & McDonald, another in which this same researcher tells
you his neighbor was dating a guy from the Sebago when it
happened, then it might behoove us to at least look at this
openly again and provide us with the documentation regarding
Stokes, when you're able. Perhaps I missed something. I'll be the
first to admit this is possible. I'm not looking to be a hero.
I'm just attempting to get at the truth. If this researcher (me)
is wrong, you'll see him admit it here publicly. If it is not
really proven Stokes hoaxed this, that's another story.

>The importance of the Stokes case is the apparent official
>obfuscation encountered here.

JC:   O.K. we've got something here although I'm not exactly sure
what. Official obfuscation from who? Who exactly was responsible
for it and why? Work was probably already been done here and I
admit my ignorance; please provide the reference. We'll go out
and get it if necessary and we'll discuss it, if it doesn't sit
right with me. My reaction doesn't have to be negative. I'm on
the side of whatever seems most logical. If there is an
alternative and it wasn't covered, however, I'd like a chance to
voice it. There is a timing that exists here that is more than a
little interesting to me. Although generalized timing alone is
definitely not proof of anything, I believe it is possible there
may be a true connection if we examine this deeply enough. I am
100% certain two of these cases are reality and they are both
military. (Kirtland is triple examined.) This third one, at least
by what I know, therefore deserves to be reexamined.

>(The Stokes case might also have >problems as indicated from
>Coral Lorenzen's letter to Major Keyhoe,  I can't lay my hands
>on this at the moment.)

JC:   Again, O.K.  However after Jan's last quote, this next is
important for us all to see, and I am not saying this to put
anyone on the spot, but rather a point of general information.
(And also the reason I put their books on a separate shelf in my
collection back then.)

In regards to Carol Lorenzen as providing proof one way or the
other regarding the Stokes incident, I'd like to supply you with
some NICAP quotes on two of Lorenzen's books from years ago. The
first from the same issue from which I ordered my own copy of
"The UFO Evidence." APRO people, if any of you are still out
there, I apologize profusely. NICAP & APRO joined forces later on
and I'm doing this not to start a war, but to make a point
concerning Jan's statement concerning Stokes. People with old
copies of the journals, please whip them out if you don't believe
me. At the time of this publishing (1/67), there was a bit of a
disagreement going on. (A slight understatement here folks.)

----start here----

The UFO Investigator, Jan/Feb 1967, p. 8 Flying Saucers: "The
Startling Evidence of the Invasion From Outer Space by Coral E.
Lorenzen"

 "This revised and updated version of the APRO editor's 1962 book
"The Great Flying Saucer Hoax," unfortunately includes a heavy
dose of sensationalism. While we find much to agree with in Mrs.
Lorenzen's general conclusions, and some of her interpretations
of the attitudes of responsible government officials, many of the
stories presented are extravagant and are not substantiated by
convincing evidence. At a time when hack writers and opportunists
are contributing scare stories and wild tales to the literature,
we think Mrs. Lorenzen does a disservice to serious investigation
by publishing, as if they were established fact, some outlandish
tales.  She justifies this on the grounds of (alleged) "unbiased
reporting," but the effect is to confuse solid facts with
questionable ones.  <snip>"


NICAP Journal, Oct. 1967, p. 6 ANOTHER WILD BOOK This paperback
mart has spawned still another hodgepodge entry into the UFO
field: "Flying Saucer Occupants, by Coral and Jim Lorenzen, the
wife and husband co-founding team of the Aerial Phenomena
Research Organization (APRO) <snip> "Either the authors
were sloppy in checking their facts or were inexcusably bad
proof-readers, for the book is replete with incorrect
information: Wrong dates are given; incorrect dates and addresses
abound in the Sprinkle bibliography. Even the now defunct but
highly respected organization to which NICAP staff member Isabel
Davis belonged, Civilian Saucer Intelligence, (CSI), New York is
constantly confused with the Los Angeles CSI and is mentioned
throughout the book as Civilian Saucer Investigations. The early
1965 Brooksville, Florida, hoax case is accepted as fact by the
authors; the Lorenzens also appear to believe that Project Blue
Book has been "essentially honest" in issuing their outlandish
explanations. Physicist Dr. James E. McDonald, who has done more
than any single scientist to force his colleagues to take a
serious look at UFOs, is deliberately smeared despite the fact
that he has risked his professional reputation to get scientists,
the press and the public to look at the subject objectively and
rationally. <snip>"

-----end here----

JC:   Anyone out there besides me think this might be reason
enough to reevaluate Coral Lorenzen's letter to Major Keyhoe or
at least take it with a grain of salt? (and I haven't even seen
it yet.) Remember, this was NICAP 1967 who said the above. How
can NICAP use this same person's letter to Keyhoe as evidence
against Stokes? A lawyer for the defense in a court of law would
rip this to shreds. This needs to be explained.

>I advised caution and attempt to locate Stokes or his relatives.
>Even so, again, what is the import of the case?

JC:   So, what happened? Was this ever actually done? If this was
a non-study, it shouldn't be totally ignored. If I was as close
as Jan may have been to this case, I may have done exactly the
same thing. But, from my distant point of view, I want to know
more because from the other evidence I've presented (Kirtland &
Sebago) I feel there could be a very possible tie-in. Until I see
the rest of the evidence laid out on this, it is unsettled for
me. (Like the whole past 30 years?) If you folks out there think
I'm wrong so far, "beat me with a wet noodle." If not, we need to
see more.

<snip>

>When 'The UFO Evidence' was written were there wilder more
>controversial cases?  There sure were.  However, the cases used
>there were from above average observers with good sources of
>high >reliability.

JC:   Yes this is 100% true. But I believe we need to
specifically reexamine the "Stokes" case to see it in its
entirety, if possible. Is it at all possible there was more there
than we realize? The man was a "missile engineer from Holloman
Air Force Base." Look at Kirtland and its date, look at the
Stokes case and its date, look at what McDonald discovered about
Kirtland and let's see the rest of the proof against "Stokes." I
know this isn't easy when NICAP is first setting up a site but, I
really believe it has to be addressed eventually.

McDonald's investigation on Kirtland (November 1957):
http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/ocr.7b.html Final part is on 7c which
you can click to. An introduction to all three cases is on 7a.

If he said it at all, why would he lie? If he retracted his
statement, when did he do it and why? If he did, are we positive
this is the real reason? If Coral Lorenzen wrote against him, he
couldn't have simply been an APRO supporter of "way-out" stuff.
Did he write a book? Did he do anything to make money from it?
What exactly happened?

These questions may all have been answered already but I'd
personally like to reevaluate the thinking that caused this case
to be "set aside."

Respectfully, Jerry Cohen

P.S.    Again, I still say keep building the NICAP site, it's a
really good idea as long as NICAP is open minded to our comments,
so that we all can be educated properly on this case and others
which may or may not fall into this category. Like it or not, we
are part of evaluating this "Peer" review. No one is perfect nor
has to be, therefore, even NICAP has it limits. We are simply
trying to get at the truth. I support the NICAP site 100%. And if
there are answers sitting somewhere regarding our questions on
particular cases, just direct us to them. We are open-minded. I
also know NICAP has to adapt to the NET first, and that's O.K.
too. It's not easy and it takes time.

I apologize for being a royal pain about this and I apologize to
Jan if I'm stepping on your toes or causing you any grief from
this. Until you wrote your 3/30/98 note, I had no idea you had
anything to do with this case. I just want the complete answers
to part of something that's been eating my guts out all these
years and a chance to comment on them. After the work I put in to
this, the endless thinking, and thirty years of being a "split
personality"* to the rest of the world because of my sighting, I
would hope I'm entitled.

*  Because the rest of world used to think (and obviously some
still do) a person who sees this stuff was "nuts."








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 3

                 Scientists to Analyze New Images of Cydonia

From: "Yvonne Hedenland" <vonni_h@email.msn.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 00:45:13 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 08:01:15 -0500
Subject: Scientists to Analyze New Images of Cydonia

After Meeting with NASA,
Mars Scientists Prepare to Analyze
New Images of Cydonia Face

  On Wednesday, April 1st, NASA's Jet Propulsion
Laboratory announced on its Mars Global Surveyor
(MGS) website, that the MGS will reimage the
Cydonia region of Mars, with three opportunities
occurring on April 5th, 14th and 21st.

On Monday, March 30, representatives from The
Society for Planetary SETI Research (SPSR) met
at JPL with the MGS Project Manager, Glenn
Cunnigham, and MGS Chief Scientist Arden Albee
to discuss the release of images. Because of the
controversy surrounding the Cydonia landforms.
Cunnigham said that NASA does not plan to make
any official statements concerning the images when
they are released,  and will leave interpretation to the
scientific community.   The SPSR agrees with this
position.

As soon as the images are released by JPL,  SPSR
plans to conduct an intensive multi-disciplinary analysis
of the data to understand what,  if anything,  might have
once occurred at Cydonia.

SPSR includes Vincent DiPietro,  Mark Carlotto,
David Webb, John E. Brandenburg as well as many
other scientists and credentialed individuals from
the various related scientific disciplines.

For more information

visit the UFO Forum at http://forums.msn.com/ufo.
Also available is the new audio interview with
Dr. Mark J. Carlotto, discussing what the public
can expect in the coming weeks.

Dr. Carlotto will be joining the UFO Forum for a
live chat on Tuesday, April 7th at 6pm, PT.
Advanced questions are encouraged and can
be sent to watchfire_fm@msn.com.

The Briefing Room chat can be accessed by any IRC
client. The chat server name is publicchat.msn.com
and the room or channel name is #briefing.











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   Apr > Apr 3

                   Re: UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing?

From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net>
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 12:59:49 GMT
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 08:25:03 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing?

>From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch)
>Date: 03 Apr 98 00:10:00 +0000
>Subject: NASA employee confirms: UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing
>To: updates@globalserve.net

>I'll try to get a transscript of the discussion. If so, then I'll
>post it here. Meanwhile I would like to ask our
>American and Italian colleagues to do some
>research into the person of Dr. Dini.
>
>Does anybody know him?
>Did he work for NASA? What
>is his approach
>to the reality of UFOs?

I worked for NASA.  But I would have to say most others that have
claimed to work for NASA turned out to be full of 'it' (literally
speaking).

Dr. Dini, just like others, sets off the Dr. Jason Leigh
detector! <g>


--
Roger R. Prokic
Telecom Design Lead
Mars Surveyor Program 2001
Lockheed Martin Astronautics
Denver, Colorado USA
- sent from a PalmPilot Professional -





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   Apr > Apr 3

                Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 07:31:38 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 08:22:11 -0500
Subject: Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara

>Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 18:54:03 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara

>Hi Stig,

>At the two web sites below you will find details about two other
>stonehenges or megaliths.

>Ed Keall, an archeologist with the Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto
>(where, by the way, an extraterrestrial being or "elf" from Ecuador will
>soon be examined, but that's another story), found another stonehenge in
>Yemen (not too far from where I used to work at one time, but this too is
>another story) that they think dates back to about 4000 B.C.  You can find
>information on this at

>http://www.rom.on.ca/news/keall.html

>Finally, yours truly, has beaten Richard Hoagland to the
>discovery of yet another stonehenge, this time on Mars.  Note the
>many tall dark megaliths and the long shadows they cast.  See
>this proof of artificial structures built by intelligent beings
>on Mars a full 4 days before the conclusive Cydonia "Face on
>Mars" pictures are shown to whole world. ;)

>www.jpl.nasa.gov/marsnews/img/87579b.jpg

>Nick Balaskas


Since there is so much discussion right now about Cydonia, I'd
like to state once more for the record that I believe that the
features seen there are 100% natural and the result of wind (and
possibly water) erosion.  I've said this before, but people tend
to forget.

I would LOVE to be proven wrong on this, but I just don't think
it's gonna happen.

Bob







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                      Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

From: "Scott Reed" <sreed@zoomnet.net>
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:37:16 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 09:09:59 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"


>Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 19:37:38 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

>> From: "Scott Reed" <sreed@zoomnet.net>
>> To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"
>> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 08:02:10 -0500

><snip>

>> I'm not a bible scholar but I'm wondering if you can point out
>> any instance where a detailed prediction from the bible has come
>> true?  Beyond some 'highly intuitive' observations, I'm not aware
>> that the Bible holds anything of special 'psychic' interest.

>Hi Scott,

>I am certainly not a Bible scholar either but at least I have
>tried to verify certain claims.  One of these is in regard to
>Bible predictions that have been fulfilled (unlike our
>mischievous UFO "aliens" who have also made predictions, none of
>which have come true).

>My Toronto area friend, Grant R. Jeffrey, has researched this and
>written the excellent best selling book titled "Armageddon -
>Appointment With Destiny".  Without going into detail, he gives
>many, many examples where Bible prophecies have been fulfilled to
>the letter, and when a future date is given, also fulfilled to
>the exact day.  Grant also shows statistically, that for all
>these prophecies to have been fulfilled by chance alone, would be
>have been impossible.

This IS interesting.  I'll have to hunt the book down for myself
before I comment on that.  Could you point out just one prophecy
that has been fulfilled?

>This fact has so disturbed some Bible scholars that they have
>suggested that certain books of the Bible and even certain verses
>were written AFTER these prophecies were fulfilled.  Give us a
>break, I say - early Bible readers were not stupid.

>Although I disagree on many things with Grant, I cannot argue
>with these facts he has researched well and presented in his book
>for anyone to check out for himself/herself.

>What do you mean by "...special 'psychic' interest."?

Meaning 'future-telling' interest, instances in the Bible where
specific future events are foretold that would be difficult to
associate with coicidence or simply a result of  highly intuitive
guesswork on the part of the writer(s).  However, what some might
call divine prophecy, I will probably consider it well-considered
guesswork.

The last thing I want to do is open a can of worms about Bible scripture,
since I am far from being anything remotely close to a scholor on the
subject, and I would probably get in trouble to for leading an off-topic
thread.

I'll try and find the book you mentioned, though.  Thanks.

ScottR.



   Visit the HIGH STRANGENESS web-site,
  a 'pop-art' exploration of UFO phenomenon
 http://www.zoomnet.net/~sreed/strangeness.htm






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                      Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:33:27 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 13:52:41 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

The key [UFO] tie-in I see involves the document called the
Talmud of Jmmanuel (TJ), which is connected with the Meier
contactee case, since he and the ex-priest discovered the Aramaic
scrolls in Jerusalem in 1963.

In it, Jmmanuel (alias Immanuel alias Jesus) prophesies that the
end-time calamities would occur a couple millennia into his
future.  This evidently got distorted by Gnostic types into the
"millennialism" branch of Christianity, while the writer of
Matthew altered it into a second coming that would be in their
own time.  From a part of the prophecy one infers that around
this end-time period his ET (or guardian angel) contactors are
due to show up with impressive signs in the sky.  (This is
related to Matthew 24:30, which appears in its original form in
the TJ).

The details can be found in my web site below.

Jim Deardorff
Corvallis, Oregon
E-mail: deardorj@proaxis.com
Home page: http://www.proaxis.com/~deardorj/index.htm






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               Aviation Week's Closed-mind Editors Attack NASA

From: JJ Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.net>
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 16:54:12 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 13:44:35 -0500
Subject: Aviation Week's Closed-mind Editors Attack NASA

Aviation Week editor (James R. Asker - Washington Outlook page)
attacks NASA - no wonder Phil Klass writes for this publication!

AW&ST - March 30 1998  pg 21

Face Lift

NASA may have found a way to top Al Gore's proposal to please the
populous with a new spacecraft to stare at Earth and offer a
constant Apollo-style view of our fragile blue planet.  NASA says
it will train Mars Global Surveyor's camera in high resolution
mode on the Cydonia region of the red planet.  The goal is to
pick up details of the so-called "face on Mars". Twenty years
ago, Viking snapped a picture of a big rock lighted so that it
looked like a human head, and the tabloids have been having a
field day ever since.  What next, a mission to find the old man
in the Moon?





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   Apr > Apr 3

                    PROJECT-1947: 'Rendlesham Unravelled'

From: James Easton <pulsar@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 20:05:54 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 13:47:04 -0500
Subject: PROJECT-1947: 'Rendlesham Unravelled'

For reference, the following response to newsgroup feedback re
the 'Rendlesham Unravelled' report may be of interest as it
includes some new material pertinent to the case.

Apologies for this being lengthier than I would have wished,
however, it necessarily covers a number of points which are
relevant.



James.
E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com

_________

To recap what 'Rendlesham Unravelled' concerns.

Following a long-time interest in the 'Rendlesham Forest' case,
regarded by many as one of the most enigmatic 'UFO' mysteries, it
became apparent that although the evidence had become fragmented,
there was more data available than was perhaps generally
realised.

With key witness testimonies from UK TV documentaries and
publications maybe not being familiar outwith and latterly, some
consequential interviews with central witnesses only available on
the Internet, it was my intention to consolidate the factual
evidence.

In doing so, it proved possible to confirm the correct dates of
the events and my research also brought to light the previously
unpublished, original witness statements*.


The initial incident commenced around 0300 on the 26th December,
1980, shortly after a 'bright fireball', or 'shooting star'* was
seen. This may have been the catalyst leading to three members of
the 81st Security Police Squadron who, fearing there might have
been an aircrash, followed up a sighting of 'lights' in
Rendlesham Forest, which separated the twin American base complex
at RAF Bentwaters and RAF Woodbridge.


On the evening of the 27th December, the Deputy Base Commander,
Lieutenant-Colonel (later promoted to Colonel) Charles Halt, was
informed that 'the UFO' was again visible and he effectively then
set out, in the dark of night, to investigate the reported events
which took place on the early morning of the previous day.


On 13 January, 1981, a brief report of the occurrences, the 'Halt
memo' was submitted to the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD), whom it
had been decided were responsible for any matters outwith the
base itself.


The background briefly clarified, some comments re 'Rendlesham
Unravelled' which I would like to respond to:


Regarding:

>Subject: Re: Rendlesham Forest case (WAS :Re: Extraordinary
>From: Harold Ellis Ensle <hensle@ix.netcom.com>
>Date: 1998/03/22
>Message-ID: <6f8fsc$e29@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>
>Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Replying to:

In article <6f671u$dfh$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
 nick@the-den.clara.net (Nick Humphries, via Deja News) wrote:

Harold wrote:

NH>Halt described the anomaly as having "a pulsing red light on top
NH>and a bank(s) of blue lights underneath".

>No, it was Burroughs who saw this. The next morning they found
>landing marks on the ground, branches broken off all the way up the
>trees. Halt also found a different landing spot with the same tree
>damage. This was all verified by other witnesses. (Lighthouse beams
>do not cause this.)


Harold,

Firstly, that quote comes from Col. Halt's memo to the MoD and is
correctly attributed to him.


As for 'landing marks', these were subjective interpretations of
indentations in the ground, which both the police and a local
forester believed were explained by natural causes.

Whether there was ever an object which had landed and could have
left traces, is the question.

The three patrolmen who ventured into the forest to check out the
aircrash concerns, were Staff Sgt. Jim Penniston, Airman First
Class John Burroughs and Airman Ed Cabansag.

This is only now confirmed by the original testimonies.


>I do not trust Penniston. His story has come out after it became a
>popular case and other motivations may be at work.

If you don't trust Penniston, there isn't really much of a case
left!

He's the only credible participant who claims to have seen an
actual object at that time, rather than anomalous lights.

The issue is why there are so many significant discrepancies
between his later claims and what we now know was documented
then, i.e., in the original witness statements which only
recently emerged.


Incidentally, Penniston states in an interview (from 1997, I
believe) with AJS (Salley) Rayl, as quoted in Salley's 'Into the
Night' article*, that:

"It was a difficult time after the incident. For years afterward,
I would hear the stories within military circles and I never
commented on it in any way at all. Nor did I ever speak to any
UFO researchers or members of the media".


'Skycrash', the earliest book published on the case, tells of a
base security officer, under the pseudonym of 'James Archer' who
did contact 'UFO researcher' Brenda Butler and said that John
Burroughs and himself were directly involved.

'Archer' subsequently met with Brenda Butler and Dot Street, the
two local 'ufologists', who first investigated the 'UFO landing'
rumours and who with Jenny Randles co-authored 'Skycrash'.

Although neither Brenda or Dot revealed his identity (it's not
clear if they actually knew), it seems certain from the details
'Archer' gave, that this witness had to be Jim Penniston.

Jenny agrees absolutely with that conclusion.


>How long were these people stationed there. Do you think they never
>saw and recognized the lighthouse beacon before.

Is there in fact any reason to believe that Orford Ness
lighthouse or the Shipwash lightship were familiar landmarks,
especially when seen from the deceptively sloping forest terrain,
where the pulsating, red lighthouse beacon appears to be only a
few feet off the ground?

Chris Armold, for example, was a contemporary member of the 81st
Security Police Squadron (this has now been verified by Halt) who
gave a statement last year. Recalling his own participation in
events from the follow-up episode (on the night of 27th
December), he wrote:

"There was absolutely nothing in the woods. We could see lights
in the distance and it appeared unusual as it was a sweeping
light, (we did not know about the lighthouse on the coast at the
time)".


His full statement can be read at URL:

http://www.sightings.com/ufo/bentwaters.htm


There's also of course the not insignificant point that we now
know from the earliest witness accounts that they did follow a
light source through the forest for some two miles before
recognising it was a lighthouse beacon.


>I have heard first hand testimony from Halt and Burroughs and what
>they saw was definitely alien (or at least bizarrely unexplainable).

Not quite the same thing.

And what may be perceived by some to be unexplainable...



>Halt witnessed the odd red light that moved in front of and behind
>trees to suddenly explode into five white objects. (Do lighthouse
>beams do this?)

In Halt's microcassette recording, the 'Halt tape'*, he only
refers to pieces of the light 'shooting off'.

However, in his memo to the MoD, he wrote:

"Later in the night a red sun-like light was seen through the
tree.
It moved about and pulsed. At one point it appeared to throw off
glowing particles and then broke into five separate white objects
and then disappeared".

It's an important point, which I highlighted in 'Rendlesham
Unravelled', how it's documented in the 'Halt tape' that the
pulsating red light never disappeared and remained visible.

As he recorded:

HALT: There is no doubt about it - there is some type of strange
flashing red light ahead.

VOICE: There! It's yellow.

HALT: I saw a yellow tinge in it, too. Weird! It appears to be
maybe moving a little bit this way? It's brighter than it has
been. It's coming this way. It is definitely coming this way.
Pieces of it are shooting off. There is no doubt about it. This
is weird!

[...]

HALT: Pieces are falling off it again.

VOICE Sir, it just moved to the right...

HALT: Yeah!

VOICE: ...just off to the right.

HALT: Strange! One again left[?] Let's approach to the edge of
the woods up there. Do you wanna do it without lights? Let's do
it carefully. Come on.

HALT: OK, we're looking at the thing, we're probably about two to
three hundred yards away. It looks like an eye winking at you.
Still moving from side to side. And when you put the Starscope on
it, it sorta has a hollow center, a dark center, it's like a
pupil of an eye looking at you, winking.

And it flashes so bright to the Starscope that it almost burns
your eye.

[End]


So it apparently hadn't vanished at all.

>He noted some physical effects. Higher radiation at the landing site.

Minuscule changes which were sometimes, 'ten times normal', and
barely within measurement. Long since proven to be of no
consequence whatsoever (natural background radiation can be
around one hundred times 'normal').

>unusual brightness in the starlight scope

The scope was an image intensifier. If you point it a bright
light, guess what happens!

>and a feeling of static electricity in the air.

So far as I can see, Halt has only referred to static on the
radios.



NH>Warren claims, amongst other things, to have communicated with
NH>aliens and been taken to a nearby secret underground base.

>Well OK, put him out with Penniston. You do not need these personal
>unsupported ramifications to have a good case.

Penniston's claims must have some substance to have any sort of
case at all.

Put it this way, if there was no structured object visible and if
Burroughs, Penniston and Cabansag's search for the source of the
unfamiliar lights ended in an abortive two mile chase of a light
which turned out to be the Orford Ness lighthouse, then what was
the likely source of the pulsating red light which Halt witnessed
when emulating that same route through the forest on the
following night?



Also regarding...

>Subject: Re: The new Ufological view on Rendlesham (was Re:
>From: Harold Ellis Ensle <hensle@ix.netcom.com>
>Date: 1998/03/26
>Message-ID: <6fiv8g$63i@sjx-ixn8.ix.netcom.com>
>Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Harold wrote:

>The American TV program "Unsolved Mysteries", the best program of
>this type. They invited Halt and Burroughs to tell their stories.
>They also had a scientist there to suggest possible alternatives to
>their observations. I have the show taped and can assure you that
>everything I claim that they said is absolutely accurate.

There's no disagreement that Halt and Burroughs maintain they
couldn't explain the light phenomena observed.

Regrettably, something that neither mentioned then and have never
to knowledge subsequently revealed, nor has Penniston, was that
the lighthouse had been a _known_ factor.


Incidentally, after the 'Unsolved Mysteries' broadcast, Burroughs
was interviewed by John Powell and said:

To:  John Powell            Message #:  6364
From:  Jim Speiser          Submitted:  20 Sep 91 23:39:00
Subject:  Bentwaters        Status:  Public
                            Group:  UFO (25)

Powell: Regarding one of the last clips shown, which depicted one
or two airmen prone as a very nearby and clearly craft-like
object rose from a landing position and took off, do you know if
there were any ground traces of this?

Burroughs: First of all, we did not see a structured "craft" as
was depicted. All we saw were lights that seemed to imply a
structure of some kind.
[Cut]


I appreciate this response is lengthy, however the questions
raised are important and need to be addressed.

The asterisks in my reply are a note that further information is
contained within the full and updated 'Rendlesham Unravelled'
report on my web site at:

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pulsar/


Although Ed Cabansag has never been interviewed, his previously
missing testimony has been scanned and is also on the web site.

Never previously published in full, anywhere, this is Cabansag's
signed statement:

Airman Edward N. Cabansag
81st Security Police Squadron
Typed and undated

On 26 Dec 80, SSgt Penniston and I were on Security #6 at
Woodbridge Base. I was the member. We were patrolling Delta NAPA
when we received a call over the radio. It stated that Police #4
had seen some strange lights out past the East Gate and we were
to respond. SSgt Penniston and I left Delta NAPA, heading for the
East Gate code two. When we got there, SSgt Steffans and A1C
Burroughs were on patrol. They told us they had seen some funny
lights out in the woods. We notified CSC [Central Security
Control - James] and we asked permission to investigate further.
They gave us the go-ahead. We left our weapons with SSgt Steffans
who remained at the gate. Thus the three of us went out to
investigate.

We stopped the Security Police vehicle about 100 meters from the
gate. Due to the terrain we had to go on by foot. We kept in
constant contact with CSC. While we walked, each one of us could
see the lights. Blue, red, white and yellow. The beacon light
turned out to be the yellow light. We could see them
periodically, but not in a specific pattern. As we approached,
the lights would seem to be at the edge of the forest. We were
about 100 meters from the edge of the forest when I saw a quick
movement, it looked visible for a moment. It looked like it spun
left about a quarter of a turn, then it was gone. I advised SSgt
Penniston and A1C Burroughs. We advised CSC and proceeded in
extreme caution.

When we got about 50-75 meters, MSgt Chandler/Flight Chief was on
the scene. CSC was not reading our transmissions very well, so we
used MSgt Chandler as a go-between. He remained back at our
vehicle. As we entered the forest, the blue and red lights were
not visible anymore. Only the beacon light was still blinking. We
figured the lights were coming from past the forest, since
nothing was visible as we passed through the woody forest. We
could see a glowing near the beacon light, but as we got closer
we found it to be a lit-up farmhouse.

After we had passed through the forest, we thought it had to be
an aircraft accident. So did CSC as well. But we ran and walked a
good 2 miles past our vehicle, until we got to a vantage point
where we could determine that what we were chasing was only a
beacon light off in the distance. Our route through the forest
and field was a direct one, straight towards the light.

We informed CSC that the light beacon was further than we
thought, so CSC terminated our investigation. A1C Burroughs and I
took a road, while SSgt Penniston walked straight back from where
he came. A1C Burroughs saw the light again, this time it was
coming from the left of us, as we were walking back to our patrol
vehicle.

We got in contact with SSgt Penniston and we took a walk through
where we saw he lights. Nothing. Finally, we made it back to our
vehicle, after making contact with the PC's and informing them of
what we saw. After that we met MSgt Chandler and we went into
service again after termination of the sighting.

Statement signed.
[End]



The implications of this and the other original statements are
discussed in more detail within 'Rendlesham Unravelled'.



James.
E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com







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                    Re: PROJECT-1947, NICAP & Peer Review

From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 11:52:51 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 16:51:54 -0500
Subject: Re: PROJECT-1947, NICAP & Peer Review


> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 20:24:16 -0500
> To: " UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: " Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net>
> Subject: PROJECT-1947, NICAP & Peer Review

> >UFO UpDates Mailing List

> >PROJECT-1947: Peer Review

> >From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET>
> >Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 20:18:42 -0800
> >Fwd Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:51:33 -0500
> >Subject: PROJECT-1947: Peer Review

> >I guess we don't really want peer-review.  When we get it, we
> >cry, "foul" or "naysayers."  If someone demands a good hard look
> >at something, they become negative.

> JC:   Or, perhaps we're just not done examining. This "peer" has
> some respectful comments. This is not an attack on Jan or anyone
> but rather a personal effort for me to get at the truth (data)
> regarding the "Stokes" case so I might solidify proof to myself I
> wasn't nuts all these years. This is the only stake I have in
> this. Nothing more, nothing less.

> I don't think Jan's post had anything to do with me directly (at
> least I hope not). In the brief time we've known each other
> (electronically) we've supported each other a lot and I still
> support him on most things. However, I've got some responses and
> questions concerning "Stokes." To determine the truth for me,
> they have to be answered all the way. Maybe they have been
> already, but I, and anyone else interested, need to hear them and
> respond to them if needs be.

Jerry this was not aimed at you.  This was a repost by Errol from
the Project 1947 List and concern our discussion of using the
Stokes cases on the NICAP site.

Stokes is not a very good UFO case. Newsmen looked for his
witnesses and could never find them. The Lindsey case might be
thought to support the Stokes case, but Stokes' witnesses never
were found.

See my earlier post:


>http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/sep/m07-035.shtml

Here is an excerpt from a letter by James Lorenzen to Major Keyhoe
11 Feb 1958:


Dear Don,

Am answering your letter for Coral since I have been very close
to the Stokes case, which seems to be your prime interest at
present.

First, let me say that I feel the Stokes incident is better left
along---but not for its lack of authenticity. The reason is
Stokes' personality. He is quite exciteable and easily confused
under cross-examination. This is largely because he does not have
a fluid command of the English language (I have found this to be
true of many technically skilled people by the way) and is easily
tripped up by verbal trickery.

The statement that Stokes was hospitalized is nothing more than
an hysterical lie. He did finally say that he may have seen a
natural phenomenon. When I asked him about this later his
response was, "I had to say that. They wouldn't let me along
until I did. "

We talked to Jim at length on the evening of his sighting and
feel that it was authentic. He, at this time, exhibited a redness
of skin which is hard to account for although it may have been
sunburn (in spite of two days of cloudiness and rain). He was
bubbling over with an excitement that could not be feigned, for
Jim is no actor.

As to the other witnesses, we are quietly checking into this
angle, but have uncovered nothing definite except that someone
other than Stokes did call an El Paso paper to report the
identical incident on the same afternoon. I say "other than
Stokes" because his Texas drawl is easily recognized. I am
inclined to think that your surmise concerning military silencing
is correct.

If you can give us a little more to go on, we will look into the
report of "another sighting" by Stokes which you mentioned. We
have to tread lightly, however, for Stokes is a reticent,
disillusioned man these days.

<snip> The rest deals with other matters.


Since I am having computer trouble and this is my third
attempt to answer your post, I am sending this now.....
More on your concerns later.

--
Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.iufog.org/project1947/






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                Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara

From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia]
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 12:36:46 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 17:06:32 -0500
Subject: Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara


> Since there is so much discussion right now about Cydonia, I'd
> like to state once more for the record that I believe that the
> features seen there are 100% natural and the result of wind (and
> possibly water) erosion.  I've said this before, but people tend
> to forget.

> I would LOVE to be proven wrong on this, but I just don't think
> it's gonna happen.

> Bob

Bob,

Have you read all of the work done on Cydonia by the independent
researchers?  Some of the most impressive evidence for the
artificial hypothesis is found in the mound geometry. Have you
read the reports done on that? This was done by very competent
scientists. Dr. Horace Crater was one and Dr. James Strange was
the other. Do you think these gentleman don't know what they're
talking about? The chance of this geometric pattern being random
are very high.

How can you make such a statement like 100% natural when you
personally haven't published any scientific work on the matter or
have you? Even the independent scientists have said that they
believe the objects MAY be artificial but only hi-res photos and
a visit to Mars will settle the issue. They are open to either
hypothesis. You seem bent towards the natural hypothesis.

I don't know what the objects are and I'm waiting to see better
photos before I give any opinions.






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                      Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:54:56 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 16:53:05 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"


> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 19:37:38 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
> From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

> My Toronto area friend, Grant R. Jeffrey, has researched this and
> written the excellent best selling book titled "Armageddon -
> Appointment With Destiny".  Without going into detail, he gives
> many, many examples where Bible prophecies have been fulfilled to
> the letter, and when a future date is given, also fulfilled to
> the exact day.

C'mon....give us one example, in which a future date is given. Or
at least just cite the chapter and verse, so I can look it up
myself.

Greg Sandow






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                      Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 12:49:16 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 17:31:39 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"


>Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:33:27 -0800 (PST)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

>The key [UFO] tie-in I see involves the document called the
>Talmud of Jmmanuel (TJ), which is connected with the Meier
>contactee case, since he and the ex-priest discovered the Aramaic
>scrolls in Jerusalem in 1963.

>In it, Jmmanuel (alias Immanuel alias Jesus) prophesies that the
>end-time calamities would occur a couple millennia into his
>future.  This evidently got distorted by Gnostic types into the
>"millennialism" branch of Christianity, while the writer of
>Matthew altered it into a second coming that would be in their
>own time.  From a part of the prophecy one infers that around
>this end-time period his ET (or guardian angel) contactors are
>due to show up with impressive signs in the sky.  (This is
>related to Matthew 24:30, which appears in its original form in
>the TJ).

>The details can be found in my web site below.

>Jim Deardorff
>Corvallis, Oregon
>E-mail: deardorj@proaxis.com
>Home page: http://www.proaxis.com/~deardorj/index.htm

Thanks Jim for the above information.

Before I check out your web site, are you aware of the fairly
recent news reports that British scholars have identified actual
fragments of a very early copy of the gospel of Matthew they
already had in a collection?

The news article suggested that these fragments date well before
the destruction of the Jewish Temple.  Even assuming that
Christians still alive from the time of Jesus' crucifiction
somehow overlooked this apparent after-the-fact prophecy, there
are literally dozens of amazing fulfilled prophecies described in
detail in Grant's book that would make it worth your while
finding a copy of this book and reading it.

As for the evolution of religious thought, there are almost as
many opinions as there are people.  Earlier this morning I was
talking to a colleague of mine who is a Roman Catholic and he was
lamenting how his version of Christianity is now almost totally
different than what it was just a few dacades ago.

The strange signs in the sky that are predicted for the
end-times, may very well be the UFOs we now observe from all
around the globe in ever increasing numbers.






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                Nua Blather: Unofficial Religious Appearances

From: Dave Walsh <dave@nua.ie>
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 16:39:57 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 17:37:11 -0500
Subject: Nua Blather: Unofficial Religious Appearances

*******************************************************************
NUA BLATHER  NUA BLATHER NUA BLATHER
Weekly free email of Dogma Destruction,
Forteana and High Weirdness

By Daev Walsh   Email: blather@nua.ie
Web: http://www.nua.ie/blather/
*******************************************************************
April 3rd 1998  Published By:  Nua Limited  Vol 1. No. 47
*******************************************************************

UNOFFICIAL RELIGIOUS APPEARANCES

A fine week of fringe religious activity it has been, what with guest
appearances of the Virgin Mary in Georgia, crying statues of that
same hallowed lady in Spain and a couple of hundred people becoming
gods, down in Garland, Texas.

According to the BBC
(http://www.news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/europe/newsid_72000/72709.stm)
on April 2nd, people in Tbilisi, the capital of Georgia,
people have been reporting close facial encounters of the Virginal
kind since Christmas, attracting thousands to  Tbilisi's blue
cathedral. The BBC's rather disjointed report proceeds to tell of
Tatia, a local faith healer
(http://www.news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/70000/images/_72709_miracle2.jpg)
who has 'squiggly' lines appearing about her navel, sometimes in the
shape of a cross. I felt so much wiser after reading about Tbilisi
and Tatia, thanks to the BBC - why did they bother?

Meanwhile, the Associated Press on March 30th told of how the Roman
Catholic church in Spain had 'impounded' (can they do that?) a statue
of the Virgin Mary, after it had allegedly cried blood 10 days
previous. Sceptics in the down of Mura, near Vic in northern Spain
have been quick to point out a possible link to the unwillingness of
the local priest to reassignment after 20 years there.

In last week's issue, Blather 1.46, we told of how God's Salvation
Church/Chen Tao/True Way, in Garland Texas, had got it wrong - God
hadn't bothered appearing on Channel 18 last Wednesday. Things didn't
get any better on Tuesday, when the big fella was due to
show up at 10am CST. According to the Watchman Fellowship
(http://www.watchman.org/3-31-98pressconference.htm), when the the
clock struck 10am, the cult's leader, Hon-Ming Chen, announced to
about 100 media types, rakes of police, and fifty or so followers
that God *had* in fact arrived, and was now present within all of
those in attendance.

The Watchman press release goes on to tell how Chen then stared into
the sun for a short period, to prove his own level of deification,
arguing that a 'mere mortal' would have been blinded. It was pointed
out that he was 'blinking profusely after the divine demonstration'.
The cult are moving to the Great Lakes now, to prepare for the
'coming tribulation in 1999'.

>From Blather's perspective, God's Salvation Church seem like just
another cult obsessed with their own version of the Rapture. The
media police presence on Tuesday was apparently due to fears of a
mass suicide. Blather would like to suggest that many of the media
representatives covering the story were *hoping* for a mass suicide,
to achieve a major *scoop*, therefore blackmailing the police force
and emergency services into tagging along. It would have been a major
embarrassment for the local authorities had something deathly
*actually* happened, given the clouds of media scavengers collecting
in the area.

Cults such as God's Salvation Church are *always* interesting from a
fortean perspective, illustrating as they do a diverse (if sometimes
predictable) range of human beliefs, hopes and dreams - or, if one
prefers, human delusion. However, I'm inclined to wonder who really
is suffering from pre-millenium hysteria - the many harmless and
really quite daft cults scattered about the globe, or the mainstream
media. Who's doing more damage?

An addendum arrived in the shape of a short article on trancenet.org
(http://trancenet.org) from the China Post of March 27th regarding
the death of a 43 year man in Keelung, China on March 25th. He jumped
into the ocean and drowned, after telling his folks that wanted to
see God arrive in a flying saucer. I wonder had he seen James
Cameron's 'The Abyss'?
(hhttp://www.lysator.liu.se/~hakgu/abyss.html)



ANOTHER CARIBOU TO MY HAARP
Feedback, in New Scientist's April 4th edition
(http://www.newscientist.com/ns/980404/feedback.html) tells of some
sinister accusations leaking from Alaska. Joseph Kan, a plasma
physicist was in Gakona, a small town 300km northeast of Anchorage,
where the latest US Department of Defense High-Frequency Active
Auroral Research Program installation is currently under
construction.
HAARP, as it's known, is a program aimed at the study of ionised
gases of Earth's upper atmosphere. Kan's job was to gauge public
reaction to the local installation, and he got some typically weird
comments, one person claimed to have witnessed a "green glow" above
the HAARP site, and another made the infinitely damning claim that
the HAARP project was causing caribou to walk backwards. . .


The HAARP project has spawned a considerable amount of
conspiracy theories, such as weather modification, ground based 'star
wars' tech and mind control, with sites all over the net, such as
'The Alternative HAARP Page'
(http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1606/akhaarp.htm),
'The HAARP Game' (http://www.micronet.net/~55/HC/game.html) and
'Earthlight HomePage' (http://www.xyz.net/~nohaarp/earthlight.html).

The *official* site
(http://server5550.itd.nrl.navy.mil/projects/haarp/), however, is
much less sinister than I one would expect after delving through the
conspiracy theories. . .


MORE ANIMAL ANTICS
In a follow-up to recent Blatherings about concerted animal
hostilities, The Electronic Telegraph of March 25th 1998 told of
'Stone-throwing magpies', amusing themselves by pegging pebbles at
cars, in The Hague (Netherlands). The Telegraph seems to be moving
towards a media monopoly on animal craziness, as four days earlier
they had reported on a capuchin monkey which had gone ape-, eh, nuts
in a teashop in Broadway, Worcestershire. Some sixty customers are
said to have done a runner in fear of the tiny savage beast who
allegedly threw jam pots and took random bites from cakes. . .

(Sources: Email to Blather from Dan Bloom and Terry Walker, and posts
to the forteana list by Brian Chapman, Mark Pilkington and Martin
Adamson.)


Dave (daev) Walsh
3rd April 1998


Feedback and comments to <blather@nua.ie>

Have your say: http://www.nua.ie/blather/blabber

*******************************************************************

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It is available by sending an email to
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highlighting the new additions, happenings and changes at Nua.
It is available by sending an email to
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NUA NEW THINKING
New Thinking is a free, weekly, 500-word email column, whose
objective is to contribute to a practical philosophy for The
Digital Age. It is available by sending an email to
<newthinking-request@lists.best.com> with the word "subscribe" in
the body of the message.

*******************************************************************

SPONSORSHIP:
While Blather will always remain free to the subscriber, Nua is
always willing to talk to interested parties with regard to
sponsorship.
Contact Daev Walsh: <daev@nua.ie>

*******************************************************************

Blather archives, please go to:
http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/index.html

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progressive organisations adapt to the new environment created by the
Internet. We have the management/marketing, design and technical
skills to truly understand your unique situation, and to translate
that understanding into a successful Internet presence for you.

Nua has received an array of awards since its genesis in 1996. Among
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____________________________________________________________________
NUA : Internet Consultancy & Developer         http://www.nua.ie/
Dave Walsh <daev@nua.ie> Tel: +353-1-676-8996  Fax: +353-1-661-3932
Blather: http://www.nua.ie/blather - Weekly paranormal meanderings





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   Apr > Apr 3

                        Nasa Clarifies Imaging Plans

From: jared@valuserve.com (Jared Anderson)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 14:02:02 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 18:13:47 -0500
Subject: Nasa Clarifies Imaging Plans


From the Enterprise page:

http://www.mcdanielreport.com/pilcher.htm


NASA CLARIFIES IMAGING PLANS

More than the Face may be imaged

by Stanley V. McDaniel

Contents Copyright =A9 1996, 1997, 1998 by Stanley V. McDaniel. All
Rights Reserved.

Although the news from JPL about the plan to re-image the Face at
Cydonia was welcome, after speaking with Glenn Cunningham at JPL,
we were a bit concerned over the fact that only the Face was to
be targeted, and only on three opportunities in April. We made
inquiries at NASA HQ, and today we received a message from Dr.
Carl Pilcher, Director of Solar System Studies, clarifying the
plan.

It should be stressed, first of all, that during the Mapping
mission in 1999, Cydonia will be imaged and various anomalous
features are already in the target data base for that mission.
Because of the necessity for a longer aerobraking period, NASA
received a "bonus" period during a pause in the aerobraking from
April through September 1998. During this period, instrument
activity can take place. NASA's policy decision to image Cydonia
during the mapping mission has to do with "normal operations,"
i.e. as part of the original plan and targets. To image Cydonia
this April, Pilcher pointed out, "requires an extraordinary
investment of resources to generate map corrections, spacecraft
pointing parameters, optimum imaging parameters, [and] highly
accurate navigation solutions." This investment of resources, he
goes on to say, "is well outside the scope of normal Mars Global
Surveyor operations."

Given these conditions, it is reasonable to target the Face on
all three imaging opportunities, since the Face is the key object
of interest for Mars anomaly research, and with the uncertainties
that exist, targeting the Face on all three occasions will
maximize the chances of getting the most desired image. However,
as Dr. Pilcher explains,

"Although the intention is to target the 'Face' because of public
interest in the feature, a much larger area will be covered,
likely producing information on a number of features in the
Cydonia region.
Furthermore, even if successive imaging attempts are targeted for
the same area, it is unlikely that the same portion of the
Martian surface will actually be imaged owing to the many
uncertainties in targeting."

In our letter to Dr.Pilcher yesterday asking for clarification,
we suggested that if a good image of the Face were obtained on
the first or second orbit, the remainder of the three orbits
might be devoted to getting an image of nearby features such as
those in the "City." Dr.
Pilcher has assured us that this will be the operational plan:

"If we do succeed in obtaining images of the 'Face' on the first
or second attempt, we will, to the degree possible, retarget the
later attempts to other features in the region."

This clarification assures us that NASA is taking all possible
precautions in order to satisfy the public and scientific
interest in the Face and other objects at Cydonia, insofar as
that is reasonable during this particular phase of the mission.
The data received from the three April opportunities should
provide a rich field of information for scientific study in weeks
to come. We also look forward to the additional data that will be
delivered during the mapping mission next year.

Unfortunately, because of our initial concern prior to this
clarification, some advocates of a NASA "conspiracy" theory have
seized upon the limitation to three orbits and targeting only of
the Face as "proof" that NASA is not being entirely forthcoming
on this matter. We find just the opposite, that NASA is now fully
engaged in a policy of openness and public accommodation. It is
our viewpoint that at this stage of the long road to Cydonia,
NASA needs full public support.

When I relayed Dr. Pilcher's communication to Dr. John E.
Brandenburg, one of the original Mars anomaly researchers and
co-author of Unusual Martian Surface Features, Dr. Brandenburg
was overjoyed at the JPL plan. Dr. Brandenburg, who works at a
NASA contracting firm, said of the plan "it makes me proud to be
working for NASA." We share Dr. Brandenburg's enthusiasm.
Whatever the data finally shows us, we feel that at this point
NASA has dispelled any charges of "coverup" with respect to the
Mars anomalies.






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   Apr > Apr 4

                Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara

From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com> [Robert Gates]
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 18:41:47 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 08:23:55 -0500
Subject: Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara


>  Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 07:31:38 -0500
>  To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>  From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>  Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara

>  >Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 18:54:03 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
>  >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>  >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>  >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara

<brevity snip>

>  >Finally, yours truly, has beaten Richard Hoagland to the
>  >discovery of yet another stonehenge, this time on Mars.  Note the
>  >many tall dark megaliths and the long shadows they cast.  See
>  >this proof of artificial structures built by intelligent beings
>  >on Mars a full 4 days before the conclusive Cydonia "Face on
>  >Mars" pictures are shown to whole world. ;)

>  >www.jpl.nasa.gov/marsnews/img/87579b.jpg

>  >Nick Balaskas


>  Since there is so much discussion right now about Cydonia, I'd
>  like to state once more for the record that I believe that the
>  features seen there are 100% natural and the result of wind (and
>  possibly water) erosion.  I've said this before, but people tend
>  to forget.

>  I would LOVE to be proven wrong on this, but I just don't think
>  it's gonna happen.

>  Bob
>
  Bob and Nick,

I would like to make a reasonable prediction before the photos
show up.

If NASA releases them and it doesn't confirm Hoaglands theorys
and predictions, not to mention the many others on that band
wagon, we will hear much talk along the lines of "how NASA (or
pick your government agency) is covering up the real photos" or
"how NASA digitally altered what came in to show nothing"  why
"this is some sort of NASA coverup blah blah blah.

Cheers,
Robert






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                         Mars Global Surveyor Images

From: Paul Reischmann <preischmann@beckman.com>
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 18:04:38 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 08:29:08 -0500
Subject: Mars Global Surveyor Images

Hello!

With regards to 'Cydonia'....

If the images from Mars Global Surveyor are not available live on
the Net,  and the images don't indicate an artificial structure,  how
will this settle the dispute?  Won't the conspiracy theorists accuse
everyone of a cover-up?

Paul






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                Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara

From: Paul Reischmann <preischmann@beckman.com>
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 17:54:00 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 08:28:15 -0500
Subject: Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara


> Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 07:31:38 -0500
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara

> <snipped>

> Since there is so much discussion right now about Cydonia, I'd
> like to state once more for the record that I believe that the
> features seen there are 100% natural and the result of wind (and
> possibly water) erosion.  I've said this before, but people tend
> to forget.

> I would LOVE to be proven wrong on this, but I just don't think
> it's gonna happen.

> Bob


I agree with you, but I must point out that I have not researched
the subject to any great depth.

'Natural Formation' is the easiest position to take since we have
nothing to lose no matter how it turns out.  If Cydonia is
nothing but an eroded rock, well, we will appear to have known
this all along.  If it turns out to be an ancient structure,
everyone will be so excited about it, who will remember or care
about what we said! :-)

Regards,

Paul






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                      Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 98 19:22:07 PST
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 08:38:28 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"


> From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net>
> To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"
> Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:54:56 -0500


> > Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 19:37:38 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
> > From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

> > My Toronto area friend, Grant R. Jeffrey, has researched this and
> > written the excellent best selling book titled "Armageddon -
> > Appointment With Destiny".  Without going into detail, he gives
> > many, many examples where Bible prophecies have been fulfilled to
> > the letter, and when a future date is given, also fulfilled to
> > the exact day.

> C'mon....give us one example, in which a future date is given. Or
> at least just cite the chapter and verse, so I can look it up
> myself.

> Greg Sandow


Greg,

Well stated.  I didn't want to say anything, not wanting to
offend anybody's sincerely held beliefs, but really, when these
sorts of inherently unbelievable empirical claims are being made,
no rational human will fail to see the red flags or hear the
warning sirens.

Jerry Clark






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   Apr > Apr 4

                  Counterpoint Chat, 'Danger in the Skies?'

From: "Yvonne Hedenland" <vonni_h@email.msn.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 19:47:27 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 08:40:46 -0500
Subject: Counterpoint Chat, 'Danger in the Skies?'


DANGER IN THE SKIES?

On April 6th, UPN will air a UFO video taped in 1997 in Mexico
City entitled Danger in the Skies. Many researchers consider it
to be the 'smoking gun' - the proof positive that UFOs are here.
Yet there are some unanswered questions and issues surrounding
this footage that need examining.

Join the UFO Forum and Television Forum on April 6th, at 9pm, PT
for a hard look at the evidence. Several investigators and
technicians have been invited to join us in a review of what UPN
considers to be the Danger in Our Skies.

This chat is available at http://forums.msn.com/ufo The Briefing
Room chat can be accessed by any IRC client.  The chat server
name is publicchat.msn.com and the room or channel name is
#briefing.

The UFO Forum  invites any and all individuals who have
researched this case to join us in an analytical discussion of
the Mexico Footage on Monday night.

If you are unable to attend this chat, but have you have a
question you wish to ask of our guest, please email your question
to watchfire_fm@msn.com

Your question will be asked, and the answer can be found by
reading our chat transcripts at:  http://forums.msn.com/UFO






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                      Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 21:27:33 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 08:47:41 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

> From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net>
> To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"
> Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:54:56 -0500

<snip>

> > My Toronto area friend, Grant R. Jeffrey, has researched this and
> > written the excellent best selling book titled "Armageddon -
> > Appointment With Destiny".  Without going into detail, he gives
> > many, many examples where Bible prophecies have been fulfilled to
> > the letter, and when a future date is given, also fulfilled to
> > the exact day.

> C'mon....give us one example, in which a future date is given. Or
> at least just cite the chapter and verse, so I can look it up
> myself.

> Greg Sandow

Hi Greg,

OK, I'll give you just one.

Most of us in ufology are aware of prophet Ezekiel's vision of
what many accept to be a detailed and incredible close encounter
with a UFO and a radiant being (God) from within it.
Unfortunately we remember the description of the UFO itself but
do not recall the prophetic message this radiant being gave to
Ezekiel, who with the rest of the Jews were in captivity in
Babylon at the time (Ezekiel 4:3-6).

I will briefly quote from friend's book (autographed by Grant
Jeffrey himself too) below regarding this prophetic message.

"In this prophecy we are given a sign and a clear interpretation
that each day represents one biblical year.  Ezekiel was told
that Israel would be punished for 390 years and for 40 years. ...
Out of a total decreed punishment of 430 years for Israel's and
Judah's sin ... once you deduct the 70 years of the Babylon
captivity which ended in 536 B.C.; there is a total of 360 years
of further punishment beyond 536 B.C. ... historically, Israel
did not repent of its sin at the end of the seventy years in
Babylon. ... God told Israel that if, after being punished for
her sins, she still did not repent, the punishments previously
specified would be multiplied by 7. ... 360 years x 7 = 2,520
biblical years ... The end of the captivity in Babylon, ...
is recorded as having occurred in the spring of 536 B.C. ...
2,520 biblical years x 360 = 907,200 days.  Converting this
figure into our calendar year of 365.25 days and dividing 365.25
into 907,200 days we reach a total of 2,483.8 calendar years. ...
Therefore, the end of Israel's worldwide captivity would occur
after a total of 2,483.8 years had elapsed ... I have been able
to determine in my research, this interpretation of Ezekiel's
prophecy, showing its exact fulfillment on May 14, 1948, has
never before been published."

As you are well aware Greg, on that date the state of Israel
was reborn.  We cannot even predict what the weather will be like
next week, let alone make any prediction that will come true
2,483.8 years into the future.  Well, there is another 2,483.8 year
prediction that is due to be fulfilled on the 9th of October, 2000
when the Millennium Kingdom begins but you will have to read Grant's
book for that one since I promised to tell you about just one.

Another well known UFO sighting in the Bible occurred at
time of Jesus' birth (The Star of Bethlehem).  Although scholars
have long speculated on the exact date of this UFO sighting, Grant
also shows that the Bible itself answers this - the Feast of
Tabernacles, 1 B.C. (see Appendix B of Grant Jeffrey's book).

The additional reference above to a UFO was included to
conform to UFO UpDates mandate. ;)

Bye for now.  Nick





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   Apr > Apr 4

                    MUFON Los Angeles Presents Jim Marrs

From: DONZON <DONZON@aol.com> [Donald Waldrop]
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 21:50:37 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 08:55:42 -0500
Subject: MUFON Los Angeles Presents Jim Marrs


MUFON Los Angeles Presents:
April 15, 1998 -7:30 PM
Pickwick Center, 1001 Riverside Drive, Burbank

JOURNALIST JIM MARRS
"WHAT IS THE ALIEN AGENDA?"

Coming to MUFON Los Angeles from Texas, author/journalist Jim Marrs has
already experienced critical acclaim for his previous book, "Crossfire,"
a chronicle of the events surrounding the JFK assassination. Now he has
turned his attention to the UFO phenomenon and produced his newest book,
"Alien Agenda." (Published by Harper Collins.)

He works to bring together the two main disparate groups in UFOlogy, the
"metal ship guys" and the "metaphysical crowd" and his research into
UFOs has caused him to feel he knows what the alien agenda actually is.
As we all know, conclusions in this field are extremely rare, but Jim Marrs
has drawn some important ones.

Marrs offers a comprehensive look at the UFO phenomenon, crop
circles, astronaut reports, government subterfuge and compelling
evidence provided by army-trained remote viewers. His idea of the alien
agenda synthesizes old findings and new discoveries into an
authoritative analysis of how, and why, aliens may be manifesting into our
lives. Marrs has consulted experts on all sides of UFO related issues,
drawing on hitherto-hidden government files and tapping sources deep
within military intelligence's most secret operations.

His investigations looked into the enormous mass of published material
on ETs, evaluating old and new cases in the light of fresh facts.
Marrs offers compelling speculation on why aliens may be coming here and
why our government doesn't want us to know it.

MUFON LA  presents lectures as part of its regular monthly meetings on the
third Wednesday of each month at:
  Pickwick Center, 1001 Riverside Drive, Burbank, CA 91506
  (Park in the west rear lot and look for signs.)

Admission is:
  $5. for members
  $10. for non-members
  $20. annually to join

Press Passes Available
MUFON LA Hotline:  626-450-6836
Website:  http://www.mufonla.com

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>





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   Apr > Apr 4

                       Mars Life Theory Gains Momentum

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 05:42:02 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 09:04:42 -0500
Subject: Mars Life Theory Gains Momentum

>From the Boston Globe March 21. URL:

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe/globehtml/080/Mars_life_theory_gains_mo
mentum.htm

Stig

*******


Mars life theory gains momentum


By David L. Chandler, Globe Staff, 03/21/98


HOUSTON - The case for life on Mars - albeit in the very distant
past - was strengthened yesterday by a new report that a Martian
meteorite contains crystalline traces of living organisms.

The assertion that the meteorite from Mars shows evidence of
life, first ventured by a team of scientists in 1996, remains
controversial.
But no evidence has refuted it, and new findings make it more
difficult to find a nonbiological explanation, several scientists
said.

The most significant new evidence is that the rock, which was
found in Antarctica in 1984, contains crystals of magnetite - a
magnetic mineral produced by many terrestrial bacteria - that
have a shape only found in magnetite produced by living
organisms.

While magnetite grains can easily be produced by nonliving
chemical processes, none of those have ever been found to have
the six-sided columnar shape, called a parallelopiped, seen in
these grains, said Kathie Thomas-Keprta, a coauthor of the
original paper reporting evidence of life in the Martian
meteorite.

"We found a variety" of shapes of magnetite crystals in the
meteorite, known as ALH 84001, Thomas-Keprta said. But the
unusual hexagonal forms, she said, "are produced by bacteria in
anaerobic [oxygen-free] environments. We don't know of any
nonbiological process" that can produce such shapes, she said.

Magnetite crystals found in the Mars meteorite match those found
in microbes on Earth "in size, shape, chemistry, and the lack of
structural defects," she said.

One of her coauthors on the new research, Dennis Bazylinski, has
been doing research on the magnetite grains in microbes for 20
years, she said, and has never found any such forms being
produced nonbiologically. The unusual crystals appear in such
quantities, Thomas-Keprta said, that she stopped counting after
she documented over 100 of them.

The findings were reported at the annual Lunar and Planetary
Science conference held at the Johnson Space Center.

John Bradley, a geochemist, suggested that there is a way to
produce such shapes chemically through vapor deposition. But
David McKay, a Johnson Space Center researcher and lead author of
the original Mars meteorite paper, said there is no evidence of
that in scientific literature, and questioned whether a
high-temperature vapor deposition process would have any
relevance to this case anyway, since most scientists agree that
the shapes in the Mars meteorite formed at low temperatures.

"We think that's our strongest evidence," McKay said of the new
magnetite research. And unlike some other possible signs of life
that critics have said might be contamination that entered the
rock on Earth, the magnetite grains are incorporated in the rock
and clearly came from Mars.

In 14 talks and dozens of poster presentations at the conference,
scientists on both sides of the contentious debate over the
significance of the Martian meteorite presented their latest
results, but none appeared to significantly undermine the
original assertions of possible biological remains in the rock.

Several other presentations added ammunition to support the claim
that tiny cell-like shapes found in the Mars rock may be fossils
of ancient microbial life. While many biologists have questioned
whether it is possible for a living organism to be as tiny as the
fossils, numerous researchers have now found living microbes on
Earth that are comparable in size.

Several of these tiny organisms, sometimes called nanofossils,
have been found in water from thermal springs at Yellowstone
National Park and at Hot Springs, Ark., among other places.

Several recent scientific papers have suggested that carbon
compounds found in the rock, which are held up as part of the
evidence of signs of past life, were actually contamination that
entered the rock after it landed in Antarctica 13,000 years ago.


But Simon Clemett, a biochemist at Stanford University, showed
that some of the compounds found in the meteorite have very
different chemical characteristics from those found in Antarctic
ice. While there undoubtedly has been some contamination, he
said, it is possible to distinguish the terrestrial compounds
from those that apparently were there already.

The important thing, McKay emphasized, is to be able to
distinguish the different kinds of compounds so that laboratory
analysis can concentrate on the extraterrestrial components.

Everett Gibson, another Johnson Space Center researcher who was
part of the original team that analyzed the meteorite, concluded,
"There's still no smoking gun, but there's no bullet holes put in
our hypothesis."


This story ran on page A01 of the Boston Globe on 03/21/98.

=A9Copyright 1998 Globe Newspaper Company.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I N T E R A C T I V E

*Pass It On
Send this story to a friend...


=A9Copyright 1998 Globe Newspaper Company

Extending our newspaper services to the web






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                      Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

From: Mark Eastman <jesusroz@iinet.com>
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 21:41:56 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 09:21:19 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote:

> From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net>
> To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"
> Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:54:56 -0500

> > Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 19:37:38 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
> > From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

> > My Toronto area friend, Grant R. Jeffrey, has researched this and
> > written the excellent best selling book titled "Armageddon -
> > Appointment With Destiny".  Without going into detail, he gives
> > many, many examples where Bible prophecies have been fulfilled to
> > the letter, and when a future date is given, also fulfilled to
> > the exact day.

> C'mon....give us one example, in which a future date is given. Or
> at least just cite the chapter and verse, so I can look it up
> myself.

> Greg Sandow

Hi Greg,

You should check out the Book 'Alien Encounters' by Chuck Missler
and myself (Mark Eastman) which discusses the interdimensional
nature of Aliens, UFOs and shows that their message to mankind is
antibiblical and foretold  in numerous ways by the prophets
thousands of years ago.

Sincerely,
Mark Eastman






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                      Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

From: Mark Eastman <jesusroz@iinet.com>
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 21:57:52 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 09:38:28 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"


> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:19:17 -0800 (PST)
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

> >Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 19:37:38 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
> >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"
>
> >> From: "Scott Reed" <sreed@zoomnet.net>
> >> To: <updates@globalserve.net>
> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"
> >> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 08:02:10 -0500
>
> >> I'm not a bible scholar but I'm wondering if you can point out
> >> any instance where a detailed prediction from the bible has come
> >> true?  Beyond some 'highly intuitive' observations, I'm not aware
> >> that the Bible holds anything of special 'psychic' interest.
>
> >Hi Scott,
>
> >I am certainly not a Bible scholar either but at least I have
> >tried to verify certain claims.  One of these is in regard to
> >Bible predictions that have been fulfilled (unlike our
> >mischievous UFO "aliens" who have also made predictions, none of
> >which have come true).
>
> >My Toronto area friend, Grant R. Jeffrey, has researched this and
> >written the excellent best selling book titled "Armageddon -
> >Appointment With Destiny".  Without going into detail, he gives
> >many, many examples where Bible prophecies have been fulfilled to
> >the letter, and when a future date is given, also fulfilled to
> >the exact day.  Grant also shows statistically, that for all
> >these prophecies to have been fulfilled by chance alone, would be
> >have been impossible.
>
> >This fact has so disturbed some Bible scholars that they have
> >suggested that certain books of the Bible and even certain verses
> >were written AFTER these prophecies were fulfilled.  Give us a
> >break, I say - early Bible readers were not stupid.
>
> Nick,
>
> You do have to keep that possibility in mind, though, since in
> all likelihood the Gospels weren't written until well after 70
> A.D. (they're not even mentioned in any literature by name until
> around 140 A.D.!), 70 A.D. being the date of destruction of the
> Temple by the Romans, and most scholars have assumed that the
> prophecy of Matthew 24:2 refers to this event.  Hence they figure
> it's an after-the-fact prophecy, and therefore no prophecy at
> all.  I myself am not convinced that the prophecy referred to
> that event, however.
>
> Jim Deardorff


Dear Jim Deardorff,

With all due respect, you are incorrect regarding the dating of
the Gospels.

There is a well known fragment of the Gospel of Matthew which is
called the Magdelene Papyrus which is dated (using highly
sophisticated 3D electroscopy) to about 52 AD., which is well
within the lifetime of the 500 eyewitnesses who saw Jesus alive
after his resurrection.

Not only that,  there is mounting evidence that New Testament
fragments were among the papyri fragments of the Dead Sea
Scrolls.

It is a common falsehood perpetuated by liberal theologians and
skeptics that the New Testament was not written until long after
the deaths of the Apostles.

What does this have to do with UFOs you ask?

Well, Jesus stated that before he came again there would be
supernatural beings performing signs and wonders to deceive the
world (even the elect=Jews) and it would involve signs in the
heavens.

I am convinced that these interdimensional beings posing as
aliens, who are preaching (chanelling, etc) a false Gospel are
part of the most powerful, most cleverly devised, and most
convincing physical, yet supernatural deception in the history of
the universe.

Sincerely,
Mark Eastman, MD






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   Apr > Apr 4

               Re: Antimatter Power No Longer Science Fiction

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 06:08:59 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 09:46:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Antimatter Power No Longer Science Fiction

From Sightings On The Radio's website:

http://www.sightings.com/ufo/antimatter.htm

*******


Antimatter Power No Longer Science Fiction

Discovery News Brief

3-31-98


Researchers believe they can now produce a form of antimatter,
which could one day be used to propel spacecraft, according to
the U.K.'s The Guardian newspaper.

Results of antimatter experiments, the power behind the fictional
warp drive on Star Trek's USS Enterprise, are due out this week.


Researchers from Fermilab, the U.S. Department of Energy's
particle accelerator laboratory in Illinois, think it's possible
to create atoms of antihydrogen with an efficiency that allows
them to at least study its properties and investigate ways in
which it could be put to use.

Antimatter is comprised of antiparticles that have the same mass
and spin as their particle counterparts but have opposite charge.


When antimatter comes into contact with "normal" matter, the two
states annihilate each other, producing pure energy. Its
potential has long been known in science fiction, but it had yet
to be taken seriously since antimatter doesn't naturally exist on
Earth and is extremely difficult to make.

Current experimental methods produce high energy anti-atoms
traveling at enormous speeds. One of the researchers' next aims
is to produce antimatter that is almost stationary, allowing it
to be trapped and held within a "magnetic bottle." Confined in
this way, the antihydrogen could be transported into space to
provide power for extended missions.

As yet, the quantities required for matter-antimatter energy
creation can't be made, according to The Guardian.

"If you want to use pure antimatter for propulsion you need
milligrams and more, and we simply don't have that yet," says
Gerald Smith of Pennsylvania State University's Laboratory for
Elementary Particle Science.

Instead, Smith is proposing that smaller quantities of
antihydrogen could be used to trigger nuclear fusion reactions.
"You could store a microgram of antihydrogen and take it into
space," he says. "That would be enough for a mission."

Producing a microgram of antihydrogen is not beyond the realms of
possibility, and storage methods are already being developed.

Funded by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory and the US Air Force,
the Pennsylvania researchers are currently building a prototype
antimatter trap. They also plan to confine antiprotons, one of
the constituents of antihydrogen, within similar magnetic
bottles.

These antiprotons are easier to produce than antihydrogen (but
more difficult to trap) and could, like antihydrogen, be used to
catalyze nuclear fusion reactions for space propulsion.

For the moment, producing enough antimatter for space propulsion
is not on Fermilab's agenda -- federal funds are currently
directed towards making antihydrogen as a means of testing
fundamental theories of physics.

"There are not going to be applications that come directly out of
this; it has more to do with the theories we have about the
properties of physical matter," says David Christian of the
Fermilab team.

Having improved their production methods, the Fermilab
researchers are now ready to begin a serious investigation of
antihydrogen's properties, The Guardian reports.

They are developing ways of examining the light emitted by
antihydrogen atoms when its electrons return to their standard
energy levels after being forced into "excited states."
Hydrogen's behavior in this area is extremely well understood.

If antihydrogen's behavior turns out to be even slightly
different, physicists would have to rethink or abandon many
established theories describing the symmetry between matter and
antimatter in the universe.






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   Apr > Apr 4

                   Re: UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing?

From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.ALPcom.it>
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 09:28:55 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 09:50:50 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing?


>From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch)
>Date: 03 Apr 98 00:10:00 +0000
>Subject: NASA employee confirms: UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing
>To: updates@globalserve.net


>*NASA employee confirms: UFOs observed Apollo Moon landing*

>What I tried to translate into English is part of a report (on
>page 18) about the "World Congress February 21st to  23rd 1997"
>held by the ATLANTIS FOUNDATION of Mr. Acedaih Dafi in Zuerich,
>Switzerland.

>"Mr. Armin Risi presented a sensationel revealation to the
>audience: in January 1997, the Tessin tv-station "TSI" (which is
>the tv-station of the Italian speaking part of Switzerland)
>broadcasted a high-class four part tv-documentation about UFOs.
>The producer was the renowned journalist Guido Ferrari. After the
>documentations a discussion took place with professors and ph.d's
>of the relevant sciences. Among them was Dr. Dino Dini from
>Italy, a longstanding NASA employee, who has been invited to
>argufy from the sceptic point of view.


Dino Dini can hardly be described as a UFO "sceptic".

A former director of the Energetics Department of the University
of Pisa, he has long been a good friend of Corrado Malanga,
researcher in Chemical Sciences at that same university and a
long-time ufologist.

Since at least 1992, Dino Dini has written and spoken publicly
about UFOs, as a member of the "Scientific Committee" of the
Italian fundamentalist UFO group, Centro Ufologico Nazionale
(CUN), whose director in none other but Corrado Malanga.

According to his own writings, Dini, now retired, has taken a New
Age approach to UFOs, with millenaristic overtones (eg. in his
paper "Infinite Space yet a Mystery for Science in 2000",
presented to the 1993 San Marino Symposium on UFOs) and as early
as 1993 he said he was working on building a flying saucer, based
upon the UFO propulsion mechanisms.

As far as his NASA involvement, this is the first time I heard of
it. He has indeed been a national coordinator for a Propulsion
and Energy Panel within AGARD (a consulting group  on aerospace
research and development for NATO), but I guess that "NASA
employee" would be much too strong a definition, expecially if
you mean he was there when the alleged facts would have taken
place.

BTW, though often speaking about the UFO subject, he never said
or wrote anything about that supposed event and his own
involvement in it, neither before nor after January 1997. It
seems odd that there apparently were more non-American witnesses
than US-born ones to such "censored" communications in NASA
headquarters: if ever confirmed, Dini's "revelations" would
belong to the same bunch as French Maurice Chatelain's or Spanish
G. Atienza's ones.

>Near the end of the discussion the TSI performed an uncut film of
>the Moon landing. You could see, how astronaut Neil Armstrong
>entered the Moon and you could hear what he said:

Nothing new, here: it's that old tape recording, allegedly
original but of very uncertain origins. The CUN has been
promoting it as a confirmed reality here in Italy for some years,
though. That's possibly how TSI producer Guido Ferrari (an
"ancient astronauts" buff himself, author of articles in CUN
magazine "Notiziario UFO") got it: the whole TV documentary was
largely based upon documentations and people from the Italian
group.

>I'll try to get a transscript of the discussion.

Our Swiss colleagues do own a tape recording of that TV program.
I am sending copy of this message to Bruno Mancusi, who might be
able to give more details, even if only to confirm or deny what
Dino Dini actually said on TV.

Regards




Edoardo Russo                             Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici
CISU, Casella postale 82, 10100 Torino - tel 011-3290279 - fax 011-545033
http://www.arpnet.it/~ufo          e-mail: edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it







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                      Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 04:17:06 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 10:00:38 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

>Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 12:49:16 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"


>>Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:33:27 -0800 (PST)
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>>Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

>>The key [UFO] tie-in I see involves the document called the
>>Talmud of Jmmanuel (TJ), which is connected with the Meier
>>contactee case, since he and the ex-priest discovered the Aramaic
>>scrolls in Jerusalem in 1963.

Nick responds,

>The strange signs in the sky that are predicted for the
>end-times, may very well be the UFOs we now observe from all
>around the globe in ever increasing numbers.

>Nick

Hi Nick, hi All,

A mini tirade:

Someone asked about this in previous post, so I'd just like to
add that not only the UFO activity but the tumultuous geological
activity, weather changes, famine, death, war, and threats of war
is what you are getting on the six o'clock news each and every
night. You don't have to be a theologian or Bible scholar. All
anyone needs is a TV or a newspaper to follow along with a
reading of Revelations. Read a few verses and then cross
reference it with todays New York Times. It's easy.

All of what is happening around us is predicted not only in the
bible, but the records of other contemporary cultures. ie; the
Mayan predictions for our time. (My damned ancestors -the
Catholic Spaniards- made sure that their history [the Indians]
was burned out of existence!)

When I learned recently that 700,000 men, women and children of
all ages had lost their lives in one month of orgiastic butchery
in Africa, I thought to myself, "Cheeses, Mary and Joseph, this
-must be- the end of the world!" WE LIVE IN AN INSANE SOCIETY.
The lack of racial (human race) memory/history is partly to
blame.

Every once in while a discussion such as this one where mention
is made of an old and rare manuscript, brings me a sense of
tremendous sorrow/grief. The pain is over what was lost when the
contents of Great Library at Alexandria was burned! We'd all be a
lot further down the evolutionary road were it not for that
(timeless) heinous crime against _all_ humanity. Against us!

Manuscripts from all over the known world, scrolls, some of which
were already 'thousands of years old' at the time of the librarys
burning, _the very mind and memory of humanity_ all went up in
flames. Put to the torch by morons who probably couldn't read a
bloody word.

(Did Roman soldiers 'goose-step' when they marched? Just
wondering.) <G>

Our (many greats) grandads managed to lobotomize themselves  and
_all_ succeeding generations with that one barbaric act.  Truly,
we are descended from apes. Homo erectus should be changed to
_Homer_ erectus, . . .as in "Simpson!"  Doh! <G> We may
(collectively) all be dumber than a bag of hammers, but it's not
_all_ our fault.

(With tongue in cheek) The Grand Alien Plan may be as simple as
trying to identify and eradicate the "Dumb" gene in Man! The
'aliens' have simply failed at genetically engineering stupidity
out of human kind. Dave Jacobs may be right and the damn hybrids
are simply a replacement for a failed experiment.

God only knows _we've_ failed miserably to do it for ourselves.

*Remember to pray for those nearly million souls that departed
the earthly coil so recently. Remember to pray for the ones that
did it.
Ah, screw it - ya may as well pray for us ALL!

Sorry for rambling.

Peace,

John Velez, Member of the current generation of lobotomized
human morons. Grunt!






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   Apr > Apr 4

                            Alfred's Odd Ode #236

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 07:47:37 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 10:06:55 -0500
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #236

Apology to MW #236 (For April 4, 1998)

There's a stairway in my yard that takes you up, from here to
there, but the movement's through a portal into time and space --
beware! It looks just like transition up a level on the ground,
but the looks can be deceiving when you slight the grand
profound. Take the steps before you, and you see the UFO's that
are flashing through the darkness as they tread on bunky toes.
Take the steps before you and you have a change of heart, as the
proof becomes apparent, and you want a brand new start. Take the
steps before you when you find you want the truth, as you're
fooled by them no longer 'cause you're longer in the tooth. Take
the steps discovering the length and breadth of now; things are
so much larger, quicker, brighter, newer -- how?

Admittedly a state of mind, it's a useful acquisition. It's a
doorway into thoughtfulness, concern, and meditation. It's a way
to help your consciousness expand to cosmic reaches; it's a way
to capture peace of mind as if prone on shady beaches. It's a
place you've made inside your brain, the only place that's real.
It's real 'cause you make it so; it's real what you feel. What
works is what's imagined -- what you make up in your mind. Your
force of will can make it happen. It works you'll come to find.
Find a door in front of you, make it out of wood; fashioned out
of stone, or not, you made it and it's good. That door can take
you places you had thought were only dreams. Departing from the
'man' you rise above his hateful screams. You soar on spacetime
wings of light, past chasms made of stars. They're red and green,
and blue and white -- exploding crystal shards. Everything you
_see_ is light, even matter it so seems. Matter is the light at
rest, and from it comes your dreams.

Dream you are a sculptor -- build an archway in your yard, and
through that arch you travel to the places that "they" guard. You
slip past their defenses, and they never know you're there, you
plunder all their secrets, and get out without a care. Or through
that arch you travel and the mystery's explained, all detail is
accounted for -- adjustments made =85 contained.
Through the door's a different mindset that gives/demands
respect, it's found there 'cause you want it, and what you want
you truly get. You've got to want it bad enough; you've got to
really want to see -- then set your course and walk on through,
and sit here, friend, with me.

Walk on through your archway and see the sky, brand new. See
pinpoint lights flash different strobes, and meet a brand new
you. See what you've been seeing in the dark skies overhead, but
pushed away 'cause you felt threatened, over anxious -- almost
dead. Know that it is endless, and it just goes on and on =85 and
if it does then _you_ do too -- I wouldn't steer you wrong.  Know
that *anything* is out there, and what's there deserves respect.
Know that feeling is believing, you can join and reconnect.

Shake your _own_ hand; it's forgiven, what you cop to in your
past. It's a pleasure, delectation; it's a stone groove, it's a
gas! And all this through a doorway that you've made from common
things, you find your treasured peace of mind, and the calmness
that it brings. You find you're really not alone, there's others
out there waiting -- for you to wake up self aware, is what
they're contemplating.  You go there through this door you make,
completely up to you. When you step back through that door,
you're blessed, refreshed, complete -- renewed.

                                                   Lehmberg@snowhill.com

Budd Hopkins and John Velez built one of these things in Mr.
Hopkins back yard. It's a portal to a state of mind, and still a
real place, _made_ real in the real world. Here's how they did
it, here's how it's done.

Make the place -- a sheltered, comfortable spot in a remote plot,
convenient and sensible. Mr. Hopkins chose a location in a large,
circular, and level field near his home. Into the center of this
field he had rolled a large, disk shaped stone, a nod to the
megalithic perhaps, and solidly set it up table fashion on rocky
supports. It established the locale. This was the place in Mr.
Hopkins mind, made real. Now, how to get there...

Build an arch. Build a door. Build a portal, gate, hatch or
transom. The *point* is that it signals a spot of transition
between the inside and the outside, the here and there, or even
the before and the after. It only looks like a door minus the
surrounding structure, and is actually more along the lines of
the archway Kirk, Spock and McCoy leapt through, to wondrous and
exciting locales, in an ancient Star Trek episode. It is in
_fact_ a teleporter to a state of mind -- a dimensional wormhole
like of that cutesy "Sliders" series on the Sci Fi channel. To
get to your =85 place =85 you go through the *door*, and you are
*there*. To leave the place, and this is important, you go _back_
through the door, even if you're going to end up going the
opposite direction. The door is the _only_ entry and exit to a
mental location that can be anywhere in space, time, or mind.

Yeah =85 yeah -- I hear your internal dialogue, "It's only
pretend"! You're wrong. Shut up.

When we were kids we had a marvelous capacity to suspend
disbelief that is burned out of most of us before we leave middle
school. As a child I had a space ship. Oh sure, to you it looked
like a stack of wood, and rusty nails filled with radio dials,
wooden levers, and bottle lids painted like *drive* instruments,
but to me it was a battle wagon I used to right the wrongs of the
universe, like "Rocky Jones", and "Captain Video." When I entered
my ship, I was _there_, and had to fly back, quick, if I heard my
Mother calling on the "space radio". The point? It's as real as
you make it. It has EVER been as real as you make it! A further
point: it's true _somewhere_ in a universe that just goes on and
on. Tell me dreams don't make it into the real world, and then
think of computers and space shuttles, mere dreams of old times
past.

We never lost the capacity to do that, we were just encouraged
out of it by the actions of an unjust society, jealous that our
energies would _not_ be used, solely, to secure conveniently
exclusive and callously disrespecting ends for a sociopathic few.
I mean, let's face it. If the shadowy elite had any respect for
the sum total of us (you and me), they wouldn't allow the
overpopulation (they encourage) that discourages and limits the
individual respect we all _deserve_ for plain, unvarnished, and
garden variety existence!

Budd Hopkins only continues a tradition of efficacious
consciousness altering that has been carved in stone at disparate
locations, all over our globe, by wildly divergent peoples. I
allude to the paths that one walks to get to a location vis a vis
the spiral labyrinths traversed in ageless meditations that have
been around for an unguessed at length of time -- lost to a
completely mysterious, and forgotten past. The labyrinth takes
the place of the door, but the idea is the same -- a journey to a
healthy, positive, and very REAL state of mind.

Make it, and make it so.


--
Explore the Alien View?

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake; through his gate ahead of the rest.






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   Apr > Apr 4

                          Yorkshire UK UFO 'Crash'

From: David Clarke <dclarke14@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 09:04:52 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 10:13:11 -0500
Subject: Yorkshire UK UFO 'Crash'


From: Dave Clarke, journalist and UFO investigator

This message is to help set the recorded straight with regards to
the message on UFO Updates (April 2) regarding the alleged UFO
incident near Sheffield, South Yorkshire on March 24 last year.

As the first news reporter to arrive at the scene of the
so-called "crash" on the morning of March 25, 1997,  and the
principal investigator I believe clarification is necessary, lest
readers of UFO updates be under the impression that BUFORA
supports the nonsense being put forward as fact about this case.

My year long investigation of the incident has led to questions
being asked in the House of Commons and as a result  the Ministry
of Defence have now been forced to admit a low-flying exercise
did occur that night.
Unfortunately, it did NOT involve a chase involving a UFO!

I along with other investigative reporters from the Sheffield
Star evening newspaper have spoken to ALL the principle witnesses
who contacted the police and emergency services to report
low-flying aircraft that night. I have also interviewed all
police, fire, and mountain rescue personnel involved in the
subsequent search of the moors and produced a series of in-depth
articles for the Star which have revealed the truth about what
occurred.

Claims that a UFO was present and tracked on radar, that Tornado
fighters were scrambled to chase this UFO, that a fighter was
shot down and its pilots killed, their bodies secretly removed
from a reservoir, etc  are totally untrue, and are a gross
fabrication which could lead to uneccessary anguish among service
families.

No one saw any such incident occur, and the "evidence" exists
merely as a figment of the fervid imagination of just two people
who are believers in space aliens.

The facts are these:

Around 10pm on the evening of Monday, March 24, emergency
services received a number of calls from people in north
Sheffield reporting a low-flying aircraft which appeared to have
crashed into the Peak District moors to the west of the city. One
of the witnesses was a police special constable who told me the
object was definitely an aeroplane - NOT at UFO - probably a four
seater, flying well below the legal CAA altitude with tis cabin
windows illuminated.

Others reporting hearing a "terrfic bang" and a flash as if the
plane had crash landed on the remote mountains.

Subsequently more than 200 police, fire and mountain rescue
personnel took part in an 18 hour search of 40 square miles of
moorland near the village of Bolsterstone in South Yorkshire.

An RAF Sea King and West Yorkshire Police copter took part in the
search, but no wreckage was ever found and the search was called
off around 2pm the next day. The police said they contacted the
RAF and air traffic control and were told no aircraft were
missing and no military craft were flying which could have
generated the reports.

A small number of people did report seeing what they described as
a triangular shaped UFO that night, but these incidents occured
more than half an hour BEFORE the events described above. With
regards to the triangular object seen hovering 300ft from houses
near Dronfield, other witnesses who saw and heard this craft at
the same location have said it was another, possibly the same,
low-flying aircraft seen later that evening. The lights on the
wings and nose produced the illusion of a flying triangle, and
indeed a camcorder film of this "triangle" was taken by two
witnesses in Sheffield at 9.30 and examined by detectives from
Hammerton Road Police Station. A viewing of the video clearly
shows the "triangle" resolve into a light aircraft as it
approaches the camera.

South Yorkshire Police maintain the solution to the "crash" on
the moors remains a mystery, and the event may have remained a
mystery as the RAF consistently denied any knowledge of any
military operation - UNTIL NOW!

We suspected all along that a covert military operation took
place, but that the military failed to inform the police and
emergency services which subsequently led to the search estimated
to have cost the taxpayer =A350,000.

One year afterward, I began a follow-up investigation for the
Sheffield Star and enlisted the help of my local Member of
Parliament, Helen Jackson MP.

On Monday March 23 Mrs Jackson laid 7 separate questions relating
to the incident to Defence Minster George Robertson and Home
Secretary Jack Straw in the House of Commons. The questions
included:


 1. To ask the secretary of State for Degfence if an RAF/NATO
military aircraft were engaged on an exercise over Northern
England between 9.30 and 10.30pm on March 24,. 1997.

2. To ask what complaints were received by the RAF concerning low
flying aircraft relating to that night.

3. To ask if an RAF/NATO aircraft was responsible for the two
sonic booms above Sheffield detected by Edinburgh University
Seismology Unit on March 24, 1997.

4. To ask the Secretary of State what reported sightings of UFOs
were received from the public and police from South Yorkshire and
Derbyshire on march 24 and 25, 1997.

5. To ask for what reasons the RAF imposed an air exclusion zone
around Howden Reservoir on the morning of 25 March 1997.

6. What regulations cover military aircraft breaking the sound
barrier above urban andother areas.

The Home secretary Jack Straw was also asked what complaints
police forces had received concerning low flying aircraft that
night.

On March 30 the MOD replied in the Commons:

"A number of military aircraft were booked to carry out low
flying training in northern England on the evening of March 24,
1997. The MOD received 13 complaints about aircraft acitivity for
that date from locations across the UK. No reported sightings of
UFOs on 24 or 25 march were recieved by my department.

"A Temporary Danger Area was established on 25 March centred on
the Howden reservoir, to allow an RAF search and rescue
helicopter, in response to a request for assistance from South
Yorkshire Police, to carry out a search of the area without
disturbance by other military aircraft. Such Danger Areas are
routinely established for search and rescue operations."

However, in reply to the specific question about the sonic booms
the MOD replied: "We have no record of sonic events being
generated by RAF or NATO airacraft for the evening of March 24,
1997."

Note however that Edinburgh's Seismology department's Dr John
Lovell had confirmed to myself  that two sonic booms were
recorded above Sheffield at 2152 and 2206 hours that night and
these "could only have been caused by a military plane reaching
supersonic speed possibly while performing a midair turn."
These sonic events coincided with the report by gamekeeper Mike
Ellison of "a terrific explosion" in the sky above Strines, near
Sheffield, at around 10pm which immediately followed reports to
the 999 emergency services of a low-flying aircraft on a
collision course with the moors.

The only other explanations for the sonic booms were that they
had been caused by a bolide meteor (space debris) burning up in
the atmosphere, a theory supported by the Dr Jacqueline Mitton of
the Royal Astronomical Assocation.

As we now know there was a low flying exercise taking place at
the time these sonic booms were recorded it seems more likely
they were caused by an aircraft reaching supersonic speed, as
proposed by Dr Lovell. This may explain the RAF's reluctance to
admit they were responsible, as breaking the sound barrier above
land is against the law.

As for aircraft having crashed into reservoirs, and bodies having
been retrieved, there is NOT one single eyewitness who claims to
have seen any such evidence. Yorkshire Water officials who helped
to search the reservoirs that morning have all been interviewed
by the writer, and none of them saw any evidence of any crash or
bodies. They were told to call the search off after the RAF
admitted the explosion had been caused by one of their jets
breaking the sound barrier.

In the Commons Jack Straw told Mrs Jackson:: "Information to the
police of low-flying aircraft are not held centrally. I
understand that on the evening of 24 March 1997 South Yorkshire
Police received reports of a low flying aircraft which was
thought to have crashed. An investigation by police and othger
authoritties failed to find any trace of the aircraft."

Bear in mind the RAF Press Office told both SY Police and the
Press on March 25, 1997, that  there had been no RAF/NATO
activity in South Yorkshire whatsoever on the previous night.|
The only conclusion we can reach is there has been a cover-up of
a covert military low flying operation which resulted in a
aircraft breaking the sound barrier above a British city. The
consequences of this operation were a major air sea rescue which
cost the taxpayer tens of thousands of pounds, and those who took
part in this operation have been kept in the dark ever since.

Details have been revealed only through the intervention of an
MP in Parliament....Mrs Jackson has tabled further questions to
the MOD today (2 April).....watch this space!!!

If anything can be learned from this scenario it is that the UFO
buffs have once again provided a perfect smokescreen for the
military to carry out their secret and often illegal activities,
in the knowledge that the believers will muddy the waters so much
that no one with a brain will want to investigate any further.
With their ludicrous stories of crashed saucers and secret
retrievals the alien brigade unwittingly become the agents of the
"cover-up" themselves.





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   Apr > Apr 4

                   Re: UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing?

From: XianneKei <XianneKei@aol.com> [Rebecca]
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 10:31:51 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 10:57:46 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing?

>Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 09:28:55 +0200
>From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.ALPcom.it>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing?
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> A former director of the Energetics Department of the University
>  of Pisa, he has long been a good friend of Corrado Malanga,
>  researcher in Chemical Sciences at that same university and a
>  long-time ufologist.

What is it about this University of Pisa? Is it a good one? There
seem to be a lot "scientists" there who proclaim all manner of
UFO knowledge.

Rebecca






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   Apr > Apr 4

                          BWW Media Alert 19980404

From: BufoCalvin <BufoCalvin@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 09:35:31 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 10:59:24 -0500
Subject: BWW Media Alert 19980404

Bufo Calvin
P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA  94596
Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Website: <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin">http://members.aol.com/bufo
calvin<;/a>
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this
edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that attribution is made
to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with
strangers before you e-mail them something.  If you forward this, please make
sure it is clear that you are forwarding it).
April 4, 1998

Great week this week!  OMNI has a real parapsychological treat on Tuesday, A&E
is re-running its BIGFOOT show (a chance for you to tape the Patterson film,
for personal, non-commercial library purposes, of course), and UPN is finally
showing the Mexico City UFO footage on Monday might.  The DISCOVERY CHANNEL is
showing a block of MYSTERIES OF THE UNEXPLAINED this Sunday, and A&E is
running weird shows most days at 4:00 AM.  The SCI-FI CHANNEL continues to
typically run SIGHTINGS at 5:00 PM and 9:00 PM every weekday.  I received a
couple of good heads-ups this week: thank you for the help!  On to the
listings...remember, most times are Pacific unless otherwise stated.

ON-LINE

OMNI Magazine ( <A HREF="http://www.omnimag.com/talk/">OMNI Prime Time</A> )
has well-known parapsychologist Stanley Krippner, PhD. as a guest on Tuesday
at 7:00 PM Pacific.  Krippner is the  one of the Editors of the ADVANCES IN
PARAPSYCHOLOGICAL RESEARCH series (the most recent volume is
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=078640390X/bufosweirdworldA/">
Advances in Parapsychological Research (Vol 8)</A> ).  This is a rare
opportunity to chat with someone with solid scientific credentials in this
field.  I'll be adding several Krippner books to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Books this
weekend, probably.

TELEVISION

A&E
Monday, April 6, 4:00 AM, BIGFOOT.  Wednesday, April 8, 4:00 AM: ALIEN
ABDUCTIONS.  Thursday, April 9, 4:00 AM, EXTRATERRESTRIALS (UFO believers and
non-believers).  Friday, April 10, 4:00 AM, HAUNTINGS.

THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL
Sunday April 5, 1:00 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD, RIDDLE OF THE
STONES (British standing stones).  Sunday, 1:30 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S
MYSTERIOUS WORLD, CURSES AND OMENS.  Sunday, April 5, 3:00 PM, MYSTERIES OF
THE UNEXPLAINED: STRANGE BEINGS AND UFOS (UFOs, Yeti, Loch Ness Monster).
Sunday, April 5, 4:00 PM, MYSTERIES OF THE UNEXPLAINED, SACRED PLACES AND
MYSTIC SPIRITS (includes hauntings, near-death experiences, etc.).  Sunday,
April 5, 5:00 PM, MYSTERIES OF THE UNEXPLAINED: POWER OF THE PARANORMAL.
Monday, April 6, 10:00 PM, INSIDE AREA 51.  Tuesday, April 7, 2:00 AM, INSIDE
AREA 51.  Wednesday, April 8, 10:00 PM, UFOS DOWN TO EARTH: UNCOVERING THE
EVIDENCE (reported "crash and retrieval" cases).  Thursday, April 9, 2:00 AM,
UFOS DOWN TO EARTH: UNCOVERING THE EVIDENCE (reported "crash and retrieval"
cases).

UPN

Monday, 8:00 PM (may vary), DANGER IN OUR SKIES: THE NEW UFO THREAT.  This is
the long-awaited airing of some Mexico City UFO footage.  Btw, FORTEAN TIMES
(http://www.forteantimes.com) had the Mexico City footage as its cover story
for the latest issue, with a negative evaluation.

SYNDICATED TELEVISION

MONTEL WILLIAMS, Friday, psychic Sylvia Browne.

____________________________

You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly
redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by
e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com.  You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to
Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert the same way. Also, please let me know if
there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, t
he week before.
_____________________________

**OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an
Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS
encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions:
however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece
or others presented under my own name.
______________________________

<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/weirdware/books.html">Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Books</
A>
I'm very excited about this!  Some of you know, I ran a bookstore for years, and
 it has always been a love of mine.  I get asked often to recommend
books(I do write reviews for several publications) on these topics, and now I
can do it and actually give you a source for them at the same time!  This is
being done in association with Amazon.com, which has an outstanding
reputation for the five "S"s of internet shopping: selection, searchability,
service, savings, and security.  If there is any specific book you want (or
topic in which you are interested), let me know and I will do the research
and e-mail you a link you can use to check it out more (and order it if you
want).  I will be linking to books within the Media Alert, to make it more
efficient for you.  If you click on the link, you will be sent to that title
on Amazon. You do =not= have to buy it at that point!  You may, but the
option is yours.





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   Apr > Apr 4

                      Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

From: Mannynan@mail.paulbunyan.net
Date: 03 Apr 98 08:40:00
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 11:53:34 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"


I have done an extensive amount of wandering around in the bible
in study and word exegesis, be that as it may, I would like to
suggest to any interested a book entitled, 'Cracking the Bible
Code', by Dr. Jeffrey Satinover. The reason for this book being
suggested is that in the first place it is based squarely on
scientific study.

The second is that is may shut the mouths of BOTH armchair "bible
scholars" and skeptics alike.

Third that the UFO community should look at this research as
having applications that may unlock a few SCIENTIFIC QUESTIONS.

My experience began in 1979 with some symbols I began being
'given'. I don't know how else to explain it.

In 1990 I was shown a 'star map'. I would be more than willing to
show you the actual writings and drawings I have done. I have
witnesses that will vouch for my work and questionings and
skepticism... Dr. Satinover's book unlocked a whole new paradigm
for me.

Folks we are in possession of a set of books that are filled with
information on physics, mathmatics, and the physical state and
creation of our known universe... the first five books of the Old
Testament. AND THAT I PERSONALLY CAN PROVE.

I will meet with anyone that will not be meeting me with an axe
to grind, or who is just meeting for the sake of argument and
anger or prejudice.

My address is

HCR-3 Box 358,
Deer River,
MN 56636
USA

My phone number is (218) 798-2621. (I cannot accept collect calls)

If you want to see the information, I do not have a publication,
just a stack of papers I have been collecting. There is a tie
between the ancient scriptures of many cultures and
non-earth-based "UFO" contact. It is time we started seriously
considering we may be living the movie (or book) 'Contact'. We
have a puzzle that needs to be put together, it is both that
simple AND that complicated. I will await any replies. I do not
claim to know anything other that what I have to offer.

Respectfully submitted,






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   Apr > Apr 4

               Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images [was: 7000 Year

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 11:28:33 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 13:18:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images [was: 7000 Year


>From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com> [Robert Gates]
>Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 18:41:47 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara

><brevity snip>

>>  >Finally, yours truly, has beaten Richard Hoagland to the
>>  >discovery of yet another stonehenge, this time on Mars.  Note the
>>  >many tall dark megaliths and the long shadows they cast.  See
>>  >this proof of artificial structures built by intelligent beings
>>  >on Mars a full 4 days before the conclusive Cydonia "Face on
>>  >Mars" pictures are shown to whole world. ;)

>>  >www.jpl.nasa.gov/marsnews/img/87579b.jpg

>>  >Nick Balaskas

>>  Since there is so much discussion right now about Cydonia, I'd
>>  like to state once more for the record that I believe that the
>>  features seen there are 100% natural and the result of wind (and
>>  possibly water) erosion.  I've said this before, but people tend
>>  to forget.

>>  I would LOVE to be proven wrong on this, but I just don't think
>>  it's gonna happen.

>>  Bob

>  Bob and Nick,

>I would like to make a reasonable prediction before the photos
>show up.

>If NASA releases them and it doesn't confirm Hoaglands theorys
>and predictions, not to mention the many others on that band
>wagon, we will hear much talk along the lines of "how NASA (or
>pick your government agency) is covering up the real photos" or
>"how NASA digitally altered what came in to show nothing"  why
>"this is some sort of NASA coverup blah blah blah.

>Cheers,
>Robert


And since we are still a couple of days away from seeing those
images, you are saying that you don't think it is possible that
NASA could or would do such a thing if they do indeed prove
beyond a shadow of a doubt that the face is real?

You don't think they have ever withheld information which
might point to life forms which have origionated elsewhere?

Hmmm...sometimes I wonder if people really care what happens
to their money...<G>

REgards, Mike

 The fastest way to respond to this message is through the ICQ Network. A
message   sent  this way will go directly to my screen.
 If you have ICQ you can message me at ICQ#:7508455.
 If you don't have ICQ you can page me through:  My Personal Communication
Center:   http://wwp.mirabilis.com/7508455 (go there and try it!)
 Or you can send me a regular e-mail to my EmailExpress address:
7508455@pager.mirabilis.com.
 Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
 Include your ICQ details in YOUR e-mail signature:
http://www.icq.com/emailsig.html.
 My BBS Telephone Number is: (502) 683-3026
 My Fax Number is: (502) 686-7394
 My Home Telephone Number is: (502) 683-6811
 Michael Christol ----------------------------------------------------






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   Apr > Apr 4

                      Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 98 11:40:08 PST
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 13:11:43 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"


> Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 21:27:33 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
> From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

> > From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net>
> > To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net>
> > Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"
> > Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:54:56 -0500

> <snip>

> > > My Toronto area friend, Grant R. Jeffrey, has researched this and
> > > written the excellent best selling book titled "Armageddon -
> > > Appointment With Destiny".  Without going into detail, he gives
> > > many, many examples where Bible prophecies have been fulfilled to
> > > the letter, and when a future date is given, also fulfilled to
> > > the exact day.

> > C'mon....give us one example, in which a future date is given. Or
> > at least just cite the chapter and verse, so I can look it up
> > myself.

> > Greg Sandow

> Hi Greg,

> OK, I'll give you just one.

> Most of us in ufology are aware of prophet Ezekiel's vision of
> what many accept to be a detailed and incredible close encounter
> with a UFO and a radiant being (God) from within it.
> Unfortunately we remember the description of the UFO itself but
> do not recall the prophetic message this radiant being gave to
> Ezekiel, who with the rest of the Jews were in captivity in
> Babylon at the time (Ezekiel 4:3-6).

Any claim that Ezekiel encountered what we today would call a UFO
is grossly speculative.  Serious biblical scholars have more
compelling interpretations, based on prophetic and visionary
traditions contemporary to Ezekiel.  Before flying into the wild
blue with sweeping von Daniken-like speculations, speculators
ought to acquaint themselves with the real, as opposed to the
pseudo, scholarship on this issue.

Moreover, as Eddie Bullard has shown (and my own independent
historical investigations confirm), there is no good evidence of
a modern UFO phenomenon before the very early 1800s or very late
1700s.  For particulars, see Bullard's long essay "Anomalous
Aerial Phenomena Before 1800" in my The Emergence of a Phenomenon
(1992).

> I will briefly quote from friend's book (autographed by Grant
> Jeffrey himself too) below regarding this prophetic message.

> "In this prophecy we are given a sign and a clear interpretation
> that each day represents one biblical year.  Ezekiel was told
> that Israel would be punished for 390 years and for 40 years. ...
> Out of a total decreed punishment of 430 years for Israel's and
> Judah's sin ... once you deduct the 70 years of the Babylon
> captivity which ended in 536 B.C.; there is a total of 360 years
> of further punishment beyond 536 B.C. ... historically, Israel
> did not repent of its sin at the end of the seventy years in
> Babylon. ... God told Israel that if, after being punished for
> her sins, she still did not repent, the punishments previously
> specified would be multiplied by 7. ... 360 years x 7 = 2,520
> biblical years ... The end of the captivity in Babylon, ...
> is recorded as having occurred in the spring of 536 B.C. ...
> 2,520 biblical years x 360 = 907,200 days.  Converting this
> figure into our calendar year of 365.25 days and dividing 365.25
> into 907,200 days we reach a total of 2,483.8 calendar years. ...
> Therefore, the end of Israel's worldwide captivity would occur
> after a total of 2,483.8 years had elapsed ... I have been able
> to determine in my research, this interpretation of Ezekiel's
> prophecy, showing its exact fulfillment on May 14, 1948, has
> never before been published."

> As you are well aware Greg, on that date the state of Israel
> was reborn.  We cannot even predict what the weather will be like
> next week, let alone make any prediction that will come true
> 2,483.8 years into the future.  Well, there is another 2,483.8 year
> prediction that is due to be fulfilled on the 9th of October, 2000
> when the Millennium Kingdom begins but you will have to read Grant's
> book for that one since I promised to tell you about just one.

What a load of twaddle.  As has been proved repeatedly, you can
demonstrate anything by making certain arbitrary assumptions and
manipulating numbers from those assumptions.  That is the reason
mainstream Christiandom has long given stuff like the above a
wide berth. Had I the time or desire, I could probably "prove"
that Pride and Prejudice or Moby-Dick is a great work of
prophecy.  This gets us nowhere, at least if you're not a
conservative Christian who also accepts prophecy on faith, in
which case God bless you; I have no quarrel with you.  All I ask
is that you don't bring your beliefs into a secular arena where
logic and  evidence, not belief matters, are at issue. There is a
place to take up the latter, and it's not here.

> Another well known UFO sighting in the Bible occurred at
> time of Jesus' birth (The Star of Bethlehem).  Although scholars
> have long speculated on the exact date of this UFO sighting, Grant
> also shows that the Bible itself answers this - the Feast of
> Tabernacles, 1 B.C. (see Appendix B of Grant Jeffrey's book).

"UFO sighting?"  Based on what evidence?  The Star of Bethlehem
has been more plausibly explained as a conjunction of planets.

Jerry Clark







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   Apr > Apr 4

                       Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 10:03:22 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 13:27:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images

>Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 18:04:38 -0600
>From: Paul Reischmann <preischmann@beckman.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: MGS Images

>Hello!

>With regards to 'Cydonia'....

>If the images from Mars Global Surveyor are not available live on
>the Net,  and the images don't indicate an artificial structure,  how
>will this settle the dispute?  Won't the conspiracy theorists accuse
>everyone of a cover-up?

>Paul

Hello Paul,

Since there's indeed a possibility of a coverup, the conspiracy
theorists might indeed do this, as you say.  But the images by
themselves can't really prove that this or another structure is
artificial or not.  All they can do is allow estimates to be made
of how infinitesimally small the odds may be that the sturcture
could be a natural one.

One thing to expect is that the greatly increased resolution over
the earlier two photos will bring out effects of Martian erosion
upon the Face itself, and will likely show irregular drifts of
Martian dust over certain areas of it.  This could make it seem,
to negativists, that it is a natural structure, since it would
detract from the large outlines of the Face itself.

On the other hand, if the entirety of the Face or one of the
pyramidal structures gets viewed, that could allow more precise
determination of the general left-right symmetry of the Face, or
geometry of the pyramid, and satisfy skeptics that DiPietro,
Molinaar, Brandenburg and others did good jobs in their
enhancements of the original, somewhat noisy, images. That would
lend support to all the various analyses that have been done
implying the structures contain large-scale regularities too
precise and too numerous to represent natural processes.

  Jim Deardorff






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                      Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 10:03:24 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 13:33:01 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

>Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 21:57:52 -0800
>From: Mark Eastman <jesusroz@iinet.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

>> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:19:17 -0800 (PST)
>> To: updates@globalserve.net
>> From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

>> >Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 19:37:38 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
>> >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

>> Nick,

>> You do have to keep that possibility in mind, though, since in
>> all likelihood the Gospels weren't written until well after 70
>> A.D. (they're not even mentioned in any literature by name until
>> around 140 A.D.!), 70 A.D. being the date of destruction of the
>> Temple by the Romans, and most scholars have assumed that the
>> prophecy of Matthew 24:2 refers to this event.  Hence they figure
>> it's an after-the-fact prophecy, and therefore no prophecy at
>> all.  I myself am not convinced that the prophecy referred to
>> that event, however.

>> Jim Deardorff

>Dear Jim Deardorff,

>With all due respect, you are incorrect regarding the dating of
>the Gospels.

>There is a well known fragment of the Gospel of Matthew which is
>called the Magdelene Papyrus which is dated (using highly
>sophisticated 3D electroscopy) to about 52 AD., which is well
>within the lifetime of the 500 eyewitnesses who saw Jesus alive
>after his resurrection.

Dear Mark, and Errol too:

This relates to whether or not long-range biblical prophecies of
doomsday-like catastrophies refer to the same predictions of such
events that present-day abductees and contactees have received
from their alien abductors.  And so it relates to whether the New
Testament Gospels came out early enough to have predicted the
destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D., or not.

The fragments you are referring to, Mark, are the same ones that
Nick had in mind.  New Testament scholars call them P64 (the
Magdalen papyrus held at Oxford), and the best paleographer
around in the 1960s dated them to late second century, or around
200 A.D., because they were written in "biblical majuscule"
script, which only got going around the end of the 2nd century
and reached its peak in the 4th century.  Then in December, 1994,
the London Times ran a story saying that the German scholar
Carsten Thiede had redated them to mid-1st century (I'm not aware
of any purported scientific dating or dating method that can come
close to pinpointing the date to a given year, like 52 A.D.).
But that was in a newspaper story. Thiede, in his research paper
that came out in January of 1995 claimed only that it dated to
*late* first century.  This is all written up in semi-layman's
terms in the journal Bible Review, vol. 11, No. 6, Dec. 1995, pp.
36-38.  There, the scholar-author speaks for the majority in
saying that Thiede made several major mistakes and didn't pay
enough attention to the dissimilarities between the papyrus
lettering and that of other 1st-century literature, which
indicate it is still classed as biblical majuscule script.

And now, the qualifiers: I am not comfortable having to side with
the scholarly majority  :-)  and do tend to believe that the more
genuine parts of the prophecies of Matthew 24 relate to events
that will occur (are occurring?) within our own lifetimes or that
of our children.

>...It is a common falsehood perpetuated by liberal theologians and
>skeptics that the New Testament was not written until long after
>the deaths of the Apostles.

I believe one needs to be even more alert to the strong desire of
theologically committed scholars that the Gospels be dated to as
early a date as conceivable, so as to lend more credence to the
supposed genuineness of their contents.  Thus what you call a
falsehood here may only reflect the defense of their basic belief
systems -- a key factor often involved in UFO discussions as
well.

A quick comment on your earlier clause:

>...52 AD., which is well within the lifetime of the 500 eyewitnesses
>who saw Jesus alive after his resurrection.

This 500 figure comes only from Paul, and so is pretty uncertain.
But if you were to alter your phrase to "alive after the
crucifixion", there is much other evidence, from oral and written
tradition, that supports that general theme.  See my website file
at:

http://www.proaxis.com/~deardorj/legends.htm

Jim Deardorff






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   Apr > Apr 4

              Jodrell Bank Telescope To Help In Search For ETs

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 01:46:12 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 19:08:16 -0500
Subject: Jodrell Bank Telescope To Help In Search For ETs

March 1998 webposted by the Fortean e-zine "Phenomena On-Line". URL:

http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~fair/Phenomena/Archive/jodrellmar98.htm

*******


The Search Goes On


Jodrell Bank, the world famous radio telescope in Cheshire is to
be used to search for messages from other planets.

Operated by the University of Manchester, the 250 foot Lovell
Telescope will link up with the 1,000 foot telescope at Arecibo
in Puerto Rico.=BF Speaking on BBC Radio, Ian Morrison said, "It
will be the most sensitive search undertaken by man to see if
there is anybody out there trying to talk to us."

In 1993 NASA stopped funding their own programme in the search
for extraterrestrial intelligence, but did build a receiver
capable of picking up 250 million signals simultaneously. "You
don't know what frequency anyone might be transmitting to us so
you have to search quite a broad band.", said Ian Morrison, "Now
linking that receiver with the two most sensitive telescopes in
the world makes a system that's really quite something and if
anybody is going to pick up signals from out there I reckon we
are going to do it."

Having the two telescopes situated over 1,000 miles apart will
mean that interference from local transmissions can be ruled out.
The two sites will be linked via the Internet and as soon as one
finds a signal it will alert the other. The frequency of the
transmission will also be slightly different at the two sites and
so noises from satellites above Earth and further out in the
Solar System can be eliminated.

Ian Morrison said, "I'm sure there is a lot of life out there. On
our planet, life arose almost within years of the conditions
becoming right - however it took a lot longer for more
complicated life to evolve, about 3 billion years. We are
beginning to discover other planets around other stars.... I'm
sure that the Universe and the galaxy is teeming with life - now
whether that life has got to the point where it could communicate
or whether it would want to we don't know".

Leading project scientist Seth Shostak said, "It is my personal
view we will find clear evidence of extra terrestrial life in the
next 10-15
years".


External links:
*Jodrell Bank Development Lab (WARNING! Very slow loading)






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   Apr > Apr 5

                      Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

From: The Duke of Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith]
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 23:34:27 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 09:01:16 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"


The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments to the List.

The Duke hates monstrous quotations from previous posts but in
this case there seems to be little alternative if justice is to
be done to nonsense. For reasons that will rapidly become clear
the quotes here are out of order, to boot.

>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"
>Date: Sat, 04 Apr 98 11:40:08 PST

>What a load of twaddle.

Jerome wrote, referring (with masterly self-control) to the
paragraph quoted below, to be dealt with separately. He went on:

>As has been proved repeatedly, you can
>demonstrate anything by making certain arbitrary assumptions and
>manipulating numbers from those assumptions.

True, too. I imagine even Jerome would concur that the "Skeptical
Inquirer" did the world a service for once, in publishing David
E. Thomas's review (complete with repeat experimental data) of
Michael Drosnin's "The Bible Code" (SI, Nov/Dec 1977). Thomas
makes a bloody shambles of Drosnin's claims to have found out
anything of a prophetic or even faintly significant nature from
the Hebrew test by sedulously demostrating the vacuity of
Drosnin's peculiar methods of divination.

But it's not just numerical or arithmetical manipulation that's
at issue in this case. Simple literacy is in question.

> Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 21:27:33 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
> From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

> "In this prophecy we are given a sign and a clear interpretation
> that each day represents one biblical year.

Correct. Ezekiel is told to besiege Jerusalem for a day for every
year of Jewry's iniquity. Note that last word.

> Ezekiel was told
> that Israel would be punished for 390 years and for 40 years.

Wrong. Ezekiel is told (in a vision that is *entirely* separate
from the alleged "UFO sighting, incidentally) in Ch:4 v.5-6 to
besiege Jerusalem in the following manner:

        "5  For I have laid upon thee the years of their
iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and
ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of
Israel.
        "6  And when thou hast accomplished them... thou shalt
bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have
appointed thee each day for a year."

The plain meaning of this is that (a) iniquity is not the same as
punishment, for a start, and (b) that Ezekiel's siege is a token
of 390 years and 40 years of *previous* "iniquity" on the parts
of the houses (tribes) of Israel & Judah, respectively.

All calculations as to years of "punishment" thus collapse into
meaningless thereafter. And the calculations we are offered are
somewhat worse, surprise surprise, than twaddle.

> Out of a total decreed punishment of 430 years for Israel's and
> Judah's sin ... once you deduct the 70 years of the Babylon
> captivity which ended in 536 B.C.

Why should you? If punishment *were* in question, any starting
date would surely be the start of Ezekiel's siege, whose date
we're not given. More grounds for collapse of already rubbishy
calculations.

> God told Israel that if, after being punished for
> her sins, she still did not repent, the punishments previously
> specified would be multiplied by 7. ...

Where?

> 360 years x 7 = 2,520
> biblical years ... The end of the captivity in Babylon, ...
> is recorded as having occurred in the spring of 536 B.C. ...
> 2,520 biblical years x 360 = 907,200 days.

Whence this arbitrary figure of 360, and why? And why multipy...?
Does this arithmetic habe any Biblical, textual justification?
(No. Absolutely none, or, as Philip Mantle might say, bugger all.)

> Converting this
> figure into our calendar year of 365.25 days and dividing 365.25
> into 907,200 days we reach a total of 2,483.8 calendar years. ...
> Therefore, the end of Israel's worldwide captivity would occur
> after a total of 2,483.8 years had elapsed ...

Those who saw what 7th Armored endured on the Golan Heights in
October 1973 may be excused for wondering if Israel even now has
escaped captivity. Cue for monster off-thread, off-topic,
off-list furious debate... which just goes to show how simplistic
and hokey this kind of assertion/fake prophecy really is.

> I have been able
> to determine in my research, this interpretation of Ezekiel's
> prophecy, showing its exact fulfillment on May 14, 1948, has
> never before been published."

Permit me to express a certain lack of astonishment. It has also
(to my certain knowledge, after laborious inquiries) never been
published before that the present Queen of England is a
reincarnation of Thomas Jefferson, mainly because the statement
is a load of old cobbler's awls.

So much for that. Whereas, Jerome also (post cited above) wrote:

>All I ask
>is that you don't bring your beliefs into a secular arena where
>logic and  evidence, not belief matters, are at issue. There is a
>place to take up the latter, and it's not here.

But with that I have to disagree. So much of "ufology" is
entangled with "belief" - from extreme debunker to extreme true
believer - that, I submit, it's impossible to draw a line between
what is secular and what is not in this field (not excluding
debunkers - in the Truzzian sense of the word - from this rough
delineation).

I would say: don't exclude, or refuse admittance, anyone from the
debate. If you have faith [sic] in rational argument then you
have landed yourself with the duty of demonstrating its superior
powers - *and* abiding by its inevitable limitations.

Besides, it ain't your List already, that you should set the rules!

best wishes
Prankster D. Mazeltov
Juggler's Boy





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   Apr > Apr 5

                       'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real

From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 22:09:27 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 09:13:34 -0400
Subject: 'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real

This is from http://www.sightings.com


Vatican Admits On National
TV That ET Contact IS REAL
From Ross Dowe
4-4-98


Monsignor Corrado Balducci, a Vatican theologian insider close to
the Pope has gone on national Italian television five times in
recent months to proclaim that extraterrestrial contact is a real
phenomenon.

The prelate announced that the Vatican is receiving much
information about extraterrestrials and their contacts with
humans from its Nuncios (embassies) in various countries, such as
Mexico, Chile and Venezuela. Monsignor Balducci said that he is
on a Vatican commission looking into extraterrestrial encounters,
and how to cope with the emerging general realization of
extraterrestrial contact.

Balducci provided the Catholic Church's analysis of
extraterrestrials, emphasizing that extraterrestrial encounters
"are NOT demonic, they are NOT due to psychological impairment,
they are NOT a case of entity attachment, but these encounters
deserve to be studied carefully."

Since Monsignor Balducci is a Vatican expert exorcist, and since
the Catholic Church has historically demonized many new phenomena
that were poorly understood, his proclaiming the Vatican's
non-censure of these encounters is all the more remarkable.

Balducci revealed to a visiting American clinical professional
from the Academy of Clinical Close Encounter Therapists, that the
Vatican is closely following this phenomenon. Parallel
information from alleged MJ-12 scientist Dr. Michael Wolf
suggests that the Vatican is concerned that it will have a major
doctrinal updating situation on its hands when extraterrestrial
contact becomes authoritatively announced by world government
over the next several years.

--

Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
ICQ Pager 6797092





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   Apr > Apr 5

               MGS Mars Orbiter Camera Maybe Hit First Target

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 08:27:46 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 09:07:11 -0400
Subject: MGS Mars Orbiter Camera Maybe Hit First Target

From: NASA's Mars Global Surveyor news page:

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/target/update4-4pm.html

*******

Saturday Afternoon Update on Targeted Observations

04-APR-98 4:00 PM PST

The Mars Global Surveyor flight team and camera operators may
have been successful in placing the site of the Viking Lander 2
within the field of view of the MGS Mars Orbiter Camera on the
second of four attempts to image sites of interest on the surface
of Mars.

Like the atmospheric conditions in Pasadena, CA, today, Utopia
Planitia, the location of the Viking Lander 2, was heavily
overcast when the image was recorded shortly in early afternoon,
Pacific time, yesterday.

The Mars Orbiter Camera team reports that because of the surface
obscuration, the location of the image with respect to surface
features is problematic.

It is believed, however, that the Viking-era landing location and
one of its more recently estimated locations are within the lower
portion of the image.

Knowledge of the Viking Lander 2 site is the least well
established of the targets that Global Surveyor is attempting to
photograph. Analysis of the results of these first images will
help the project team with the future imaging attempts.





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   Apr > Apr 5

                    Re: UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing

From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch)
Date: 06 Apr 98 00:52:00 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 09:25:17 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing


>Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 12:59:49 GMT
>From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re:  UFO UpDate: UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing?

>I'll try to get a transscript of the discussion. If so,
>then I'll post it here. Meanwhile I would like to ask our
>American and  Italian colleagues to do some>research into
>the person of Dr. Dini.

>Does anybody know him?
>Did he work for NASA? What
>is his approach
>to the reality of UFOs?

rp>I worked for NASA.  But I would have to say most others that
rp>haveclaimed to work for NASA turned out to be full of 'it'
rp>(literallyspeaking).

rp>Dr. Dini, just like others, sets off the Dr. Jason Leighdetector!
rp><g>

rp>Roger R. Prokic
rp>Telecom Design Lead
rp>Mars Surveyor Program 2001
rp>Lockheed Martin Astronautics
rp>Denver, Colorado USA
rp>- sent from a PalmPilot Professional -

Sorry Sir, my contribute to this list regarding the Apollo
landing on the Moon was a serious one though I was fully aware of
this crucial date of the beginning of April.

But facing what we all have to experience/suffer during the next
days when Cydonia is re-photographed I thought it would be worth
to bring back to memory the "reality" we are forced to live
with/in.

My mail to this list was a request for further research into Mr.
Dini's personality and "need to know"-clearence.

I love jokes - at the right time.

Joachim Koch







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   Apr > Apr 5

                       Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images

From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 03:05:36 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 09:27:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images

> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 18:04:38 -0600
> From: Paul Reischmann <preischmann@beckman.com>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: MGS Images

> Hello!

> With regards to 'Cydonia'....

> If the images from Mars Global Surveyor are not available live on
> the Net,  and the images don't indicate an artificial structure,  how
> will this settle the dispute?  Won't the conspiracy theorists accuse
> everyone of a cover-up?

> Paul

You won't need to be a conspiracy theorist to dispute the images,
just a lawyer or a scientist.  Images have been challenged as to
their veracity as long as people have been able to create them.

Remember if there is no independently confirmable chain of
custody of the information (images, evidence, etc.) it is open
to challenge on both scientific and legal grounds.

Perhaps you are among those who still subscribe to the original
information offered as an explanation for the Gulf of Tonkin
incident?

What consitutes evidence?  What constitutes proof?
Perhaps you should address these issues before raising the
bogey-man of conspiracy.

Gary






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                      Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 03:10:44 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 09:29:54 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

> Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 21:27:33 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
> From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

> Most of us in ufology are aware of prophet Ezekiel's vision of
> what many accept to be a detailed and incredible close encounter
> with a UFO and a radiant being (God) from within it.
> Unfortunately we remember the description of the UFO itself but
> do not recall the prophetic message this radiant being gave to
> Ezekiel, who with the rest of the Jews were in captivity in
> Babylon at the time (Ezekiel 4:3-6).

> I will briefly quote from friend's book (autographed by Grant
> Jeffrey himself too) below regarding this prophetic message.

> "In this prophecy we are given a sign and a clear interpretation
> that each day represents one biblical year.  Ezekiel was told
> that Israel would be punished for 390 years and for 40 years. ...
> Out of a total decreed punishment of 430 years for Israel's and
> Judah's sin ... once you deduct the 70 years of the Babylon
> captivity which ended in 536 B.C.; there is a total of 360 years
> of further punishment beyond 536 B.C. ... historically, Israel
> did not repent of its sin at the end of the seventy years in
> Babylon. ... God told Israel that if, after being punished for
> her sins, she still did not repent, the punishments previously
> specified would be multiplied by 7. ... 360 years x 7 = 2,520
> biblical years ... The end of the captivity in Babylon, ...
> is recorded as having occurred in the spring of 536 B.C. ...
> 2,520 biblical years x 360 = 907,200 days.  Converting this
> figure into our calendar year of 365.25 days and dividing 365.25
> into 907,200 days we reach a total of 2,483.8 calendar years. ...
> Therefore, the end of Israel's worldwide captivity would occur
> after a total of 2,483.8 years had elapsed ... I have been able
> to determine in my research, this interpretation of Ezekiel's
> prophecy, showing its exact fulfillment on May 14, 1948, has
> never before been published."

> As you are well aware Greg, on that date the state of Israel
> was reborn.  We cannot even predict what the weather will be like
> next week, let alone make any prediction that will come true
> 2,483.8 years into the future.  Well, there is another 2,483.8 year
> prediction that is due to be fulfilled on the 9th of October, 2000
> when the Millennium Kingdom begins but you will have to read Grant's
> book for that one since I promised to tell you about just one.

Nick, thanks for clarifying the discussion with this example.

There's an elementary mistake in the calculation, though -- a
year doesn't have 365.25 days. That's because the normal leap
year adjustment (adding an extra day every four years) isn't
precise enough. So there are exceptions to the rule. Years ending
in 00 are NOT leap years, unless they're multiples of 400. Thus,
2000 will be a leap year, but 1900, 1800, and 1700 were not. The
gentleman you quote apparently didn't know this, and so his
calculation comes out with the wrong date. It's off by around 18
days -- the result of adding three extra leap days for each 400
years in the total of approximately 2400.

There's another problem, too. You're telling us that there are
907,200 days between the end of the Babylonian Captivity and the
founding of Israel. But when, exactly, did the captivity end? Do
we know the exact date? The passage you quote, Nick, says the
captivity ended "in the spring," but that's not good enough. If
we don't know the precise date we're starting from, how can we
add 907,200 days to come out with May 14, 1948?

Then there's a third difficulty: You can't base honest
calculations on  a 70-year Babylonian Captivity that ends in 536
B.C. According to the Columbia Encyclopedia (a standard reference
book, the leading one-volume encyclopedia in English), the
captivity began in 586 B.C., when Nebuchadnezzar conquered
Jerusalem. It ended in 538 B.C. when a new Babylonian emperor,
Cyrus, decreed religious freedom, and allowed the Jews to found
their own state.

So the actual length of the Babylonian Captivity was 48 years.
Where does the 70-year figure come from? Well, there had been
prophecies saying the Jews would be held captive for 70 years.
Out of respect for those prophecies, the captivity was given a
sort of honorary ending date -- it was deemed to have ended in
516 B.C., when a new Jewish temple was completed.

Thus, Nick, there's a contradiction in the passage you quote. If
you say the captivity ended in 536 B.C., then it can't have
lasted 70 years. And if you say it lasted 70 years, it can't have
ended in 536. (I don't know why you say 536, by the way, when the
encyclopedia says 538. But then one of the Bible commentaries I
looked at says the captivity began in 587 instead of 586.)

Now let's look at the passage from Ezekiel. Here it is, in the
King James version:

"Moreover take thou unto thee  an iron pan, and set it for a wall
of iron between thee and the city: and set thy face against it,
and it shall be besieged, and thou shalt lay siege against it.
This shall be a sign to the house of Israel.

"Lie thou also upon thy left side, and lay the iniquity of the
house of Israel upon it: according to the number of the days that
thou shalt lie upon it thou shalt bear their iniquity.

"For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according
to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so
shalt thou bear the inquity of the house of Israel.

"And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right
side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah
forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year."

The first thing to notice is that there's nothing here about
multiplying the length of Israel's punishment by seven. That,
evidently, comes from some other part of the Bible. There's no
way anyone who only reads these verses from Ezekiel can judge
whether it actually applies

The next problem is that -- at least to the unaided eye -- the
passage isn't a prophency. There's talk about Israel's "iniquity"
(and the book you quote from is obviously right in saying that
one day represents one year). But what "iniquity" are we talking
about? The simplest reading of the passage would be that Ezekiel
is being asked to do penance for Israel's past sins.
Is there a single word here that says the 390 days and 40 days
represent years of future punishment?

What do Bible commentaries say? I'm hardly an expert, but I did
go to Barnes & Noble, where I consulted books in their extensive
Bible section. They had all sorts of Bibles -- Protestant,
Catholic, Evangelical, everything but Jewish, in at least half a
dozen translations. They also had several shelves of Bible
commentary, some of it in massive scholarly tomes at least a
thousand pages long.

I looked through a lot of this, especially the scholarly
commentaries. There seems to be complete agreement about this
passage, to the following effect:

1. Ezekiel is thought to have preached from 593 B.C. to 571. The
passage we're talking about here is part of a vision he had,
described in the early chapters of the biblical book about him.
He probably had it in the early years of the Babylonian
Captivity. He's being asked to do penance for Israel's past sins.
Presumably these were sins that led God to punish Israel with the
captivity.

2. The Jews, in those days, had two kingdoms, one ruled by the
house of Israel, the other ruled by the house of Judah. In this
passage, Ezekial is asked to do two penances, a 390-day penance
for sins of the house of Israel, and a 40-day penance for sins of
the house of Judah. Nobody has a clue why one penance is longer
than the other, or what the lengths mean. It's clear, though,
that the two numbers have nothing to do with each other. There's
no basis for adding them together.

3. This passage isn't a prophecy. Not one commentary says that it
is, or even that it might be. It's not even mentioned as a
distant possibility.

So, Nick....the gentleman you quote appears to have his own,
seemingly arbitrary reading of the book of Ezekiel. He uses two
contradictory chronologies of the Babylonian Captivity,
apparently without realizing that they contradict each other.

He knows the exact date on which a span of  907,200 days ends,
even though he doesn't know the date on which it began. And he
makes an elementary mistake about the calendar, which would make
his calculations wrong even if everything else about them was
correct.

Greg Sandow






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                      Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

From: "Scott Reed" <sreed@zoomnet.net>
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 11:28:29 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 10:02:06 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"


>Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 04:17:06 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

>>Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 12:49:16 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
>>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"


>>>Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:33:27 -0800 (PST)
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>>>Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

>>>The key [UFO] tie-in I see involves the document called the
>>>Talmud of Jmmanuel (TJ), which is connected with the Meier
>>>contactee case, since he and the ex-priest discovered the Aramaic
>>>scrolls in Jerusalem in 1963.

>Nick responds,

>>The strange signs in the sky that are predicted for the
>>end-times, may very well be the UFOs we now observe from all
>>around the globe in ever increasing numbers.

>>Nick

>Hi Nick, hi All,

>A mini tirade:

>Someone asked about this in previous post, so I'd just like to
>add that not only the UFO activity but the tumultuous geological
>activity, weather changes, famine, death, war, and threats of war
>is what you are getting on the six o'clock news each and every
>night. You don't have to be a theologian or Bible scholar. All
>anyone needs is a TV or a newspaper to follow along with a
>reading of Revelations. Read a few verses and then cross
>reference it with todays New York Times. It's easy.

Yes, it is easy to use broad, generalized predictions of famine
and war and connect it to present-day problems. That's not a
prophecy being fulfilled.

Remember that there have been numorous instances of famine and
war in the short, violent career of Mankind.  Also you may notice
from a casual glance at a history book, that our history is full
of devastating, atrociously violent wars and massive, wide-spred
famine and disease--far worse than any problems that we have
today.  In fact, compared to the last century, earth as a whole
is doing pretty well.  There will always be wars, famine and
diseases, coupled with the constant conflicts of society.

>All of what is happening around us is predicted not only in the
>bible, but the records of other contemporary cultures. ie; the
>Mayan predictions for our time. (My damned ancestors -the
>Catholic Spaniards- made sure that their history [the Indians]
>was burned out of existence!)

>When I learned recently that 700,000 men, women and children of
>all ages had lost their lives in one month of orgiastic butchery
>in Africa, I thought to myself, "Cheeses, Mary and Joseph, this
>-must be- the end of the world!" WE LIVE IN AN INSANE SOCIETY.
>The lack of racial (human race) memory/history is partly to
>blame.

Like I said, look at your history books.  700,000 people murdered
is truly dispicable, but let's not forget that human beings have
caused worse carnage in the past.

As for UFO activity (trying to swing this back on-topic) on the
rise, is this really true?  Are more UFO's being reported, or is
there some confusion between UFO reports and the recent media
interest in UFO's?

ScottR.

   Visit the HIGH STRANGENESS web-site,
  a 'pop-art' exploration of UFO phenomenon
 http://www.zoomnet.net/~sreed/strangeness.htm






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                          Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #236

From: John John <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 02:39:15 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 09:45:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #236

>Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 07:47:37 -0600
>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #236

>Apology to MW #236 (For April 4, 1998)

>There's a stairway in my yard that takes you up, from here to
>there, but the movement's through a portal into time and space --
>beware! It looks just like transition up a level on the ground,
>but the looks can be deceiving when you slight the grand
>profound. Take the steps before you, and you see the UFO's that
>are flashing through the darkness as they tread on bunky toes.

<*Reluctant snip>

>Budd Hopkins and John Velez built one of these things in Mr.
>Hopkins back yard. It's a portal to a state of mind, and still a
>real place, _made_ real in the real world. Here's how they did
>it, here's how it's done.

Wow Al, how do you know about that sculpture? I thought only
Budd and Carol and myself knew about that job! You spooked me
with this post. Who told you about it?

It's not in Budds backyard BTW. It was commissioned by lady who
lives on a rather substantial estate in Conneticut. The area is
rural but the grounds are laid out beautifully and highly
manicured.  The place is also 'littered' with large 'outdoor'
sculptures from varying well known (and some not so well known)
artists that she has collected over the years.

>Make the place -- a sheltered, comfortable spot in a remote plot,
>convenient and sensible. Mr. Hopkins chose a location in a large,
>circular, and level field near his home. Into the center of this
>field he had rolled a large, disk shaped stone, a nod to the
>megalithic perhaps, and solidly set it up table fashion on rocky
>supports. It established the locale. This was the place in Mr.
>Hopkins mind, made real. Now, how to get there...

Not many know of Budds artwork. His work is in the permanent
collections of the Guggenheim and the Whitney museums here
in NY. As an artist he is _truly_ one of the greats.

Using materials that he found on the grounds he created a
marvelous 'Gate' and beyond it an alter. He used an old
millstone (it was a 500lb. four foot wide granite donut that
nearly cost me a still useful testicle to move! <G>) for
the top.

We set it up on three large stones (that he had me set partially
into the ground) in a perfect triangle. He then surrounded the
"Alter" with three more large stones that were set in an inverted
triangle to the three that were used as pedestals for the
millstone. (Like a star of David configuration!)

It has an ancient 'Stonehenge' quality to it that made it
appear as if it had always been there! That's pure artistic
genius, man. The whole thing looks so natural and fits so
well into it's surroundings. The beauty of simplicity! We
all know that any schmuck can get complicated but it takes
_real_genius_ to be simple!

>Build an arch. Build a door. Build a portal, gate, hatch or
>transom. The *point* is that it signals a spot of transition
>between the inside and the outside, the here and there, or even
>the before and the after. It only looks like a door minus the
>surrounding structure, and is actually more along the lines of
>the archway Kirk, Spock and McCoy leapt through, to wondrous and
>exciting locales, in an ancient Star Trek episode.

You have obviously seen the thing! Budd got those old timbers
and hacked out the components to that gate using a chainsaw!
We drilled them and assembled them into that shape that you
saw using compound jointing and old large bolts.

(Did you see Carols' videotape? You must have, it's the only way
that you could know all this!)

The 'Gate' has two extensions on the front that becons you
to pass through. He designed them like the paws on the Sphinx.
The 'Gate' itself (to me) has the beauty of Chineese caligraphy.
It looks kind of like a written chineese character!

All that you have said of it, all of your interpretations,
are almost word for word what he told me the elements
symbolized as we constructed the thing! You are a most
perceptive art appreciator. You really 'grokked' the meaning
and symbolism of the piece. I'm impressed to death Al! <G>

>It is in _fact_ a teleporter to a state of mind -- a dimensional
>wormhole

Budd has made a long and careful study of many ancient sites.
He is especially influenced by Mayan ruins, and places like
Stonehenge. He has taken all of that, passed it through his
own filters and regurgitated it in a way that makes his
creations (whether sculptures or on canvas) look hyper-
modern and ancient (as if an indian designed and built it)
all at the same time. There is something very direct and
pure about the way he creates and composes. I've never seen
_any_ painter with a better sense of color, form/design and
composition either.

One of the most enjoyable afternoons that I ever spent with
Budd was when he took me on a tour of the Philidelphia Art
Museum. His excitement and enthusiasm about art is
infectious. His knowledge of art is very deep water indeed.

>The door is the _only_ entry and exit to a
>>mental location that can be anywhere in space, time, or mind.

You grokked it man! <VBG>

>Budd Hopkins only continues a tradition of efficacious
>consciousness altering that has been carved in stone at disparate
>locations, all over our globe, by wildly divergent peoples. I
>allude to the paths that one walks to get to a location vis a vis
>the spiral labyrinths traversed in ageless meditations that have
>been around for an unguessed at length of time -- lost to a
>completely mysterious, and forgotten past. The labyrinth takes
>the place of the door, but the idea is the same -- a journey to a
>healthy, positive, and very REAL state of mind.

Yes! An experience that takes you directly to Godhead without the
middleman! No philosophy at all. Just a direct experience of the
Divine that lies in and around all of us. Budd creates art that
acts as a catalyst/facilitates that!

I'm going to show him this e-mail when he gets back from Italy
Al. It'll make his day to read it!

BTW, I was just his 'assistant' on that job. I had nothing at all
to do with the designing of the thing.

Peace,

John Velez







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              [UASR]> DSP Satellite Confirmation of the Iranian

From: "[ UASR ]> Perry" <AlienResearch@Earthcorp.com> [Perry Man]
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 10:33:58 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 09:59:23 -0400
Subject: [UASR]> DSP Satellite Confirmation of the Iranian

From: http://ufo-world.simplenet.com/iran_dsp.html

The DSP Connection

An impressive breakthrough in the confirmation of the Iranian UFO
encounter was uncovered by researchers Lee Graham and Ron Regehr,
of Aero-Jet in California. They confirmed that the UFO sighting
over Tehran was, in fact, tracked by the United States military's
DSP satellite.

Some of our readers may be aware that the primary responsibility
of the DSP-1 satellite is to detect the launch of ballistic
missiles. This deep-space platform detects infrared heat through
sensors that are mounted on the body of the satellite. ANYTHING
that emits infrared heat is detected by this apparatus. It can
determine different types of aircraft simply by comparing the
"signature" of the infrared signals displayed by an object
against an intensely complete database of all known aircraft. The
DSP was, as we now know, responsible for the detection of Iraqi
SCUD missile launches during Operation Desert Storm.

During their investigations, Graham and Reghr have located
computer print-outs from the time frame of the the Iranian UFO
overflight, which show that the DSP definitely detected an
"anomalous object" in Iranian air space.

Lee Graham was a guest on Don Ecker's UFOs Tonight radio show on
10/31/93. During the show Don and Lee talk about this particular
incident.

A Computer printout of the anomalous event with the classified term
"238 SCANS - POSSIBLE SR" [.jpg is available at the above URL] The
term "238 SCANS" indicates that the event lasted more than an
hour.

To the best of our knowledge, this is the ONLY case in history
where we have confirmation of a UFO sighting by observers both on
the ground, in the air and by the DSP-1. The magnitude of this
revelation should not be overlooked. It would be an interesting
project to compare DSP records to other reported anomalous
sightings around the world.








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               Lunascan + Mars Updates: HBO's Moon Miniseries

From: "Steve Wingate" <swingate@crl.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 08:55:40 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 10:47:05 -0400
Subject: Lunascan + Mars Updates: HBO's Moon Miniseries

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From:          AOL News <AOLNews@aol.com>
Subject:       HBO's Moon Miniseries Premieres
Date:          Thu, 2 Apr 1998 13:05:10 EST
Organization:  AOL (http://www.aol.com)
 HBO's Moon Miniseries Premieres

.c The Associated Press

 By MARCIA DUNN

CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. (AP) - Lead actors in HBO's megabuck
miniseries, "From the Earth to the Moon," paced up and down the
red carpet, fretting, as they awaited the real stars of the show.

They were about to meet astronauts. Apollo astronauts. Apollo
astronauts who flew to the moon, for goodness' sake, and were
guests of honor at this Kennedy Space Center premiere.

"I'm a nervous wreck," said actor Bryan Cranston, aka Buzz
Aldrin, second man to walk on the moon. "I'm just hoping that he
doesn't hate me. I tried my best. I tried to portray him as
earnestly as I could glean from his book that I read and from the
script and the transcripts."

Actor Gareth Williams, aka Jim Irwin, eighth man to walk on the
moon, was a little calmer. The astronaut he portrays is dead.

"It's easy for you," Cranston told Williams.

"Yeah," Williams admitted, "I don't have that same pressure."

Cranston needn't have worried. When the real Aldrin finally
arrived, he strode over to the actor and gave him a
congratulatory handshake.

Aldrin, Apollo 11's lunar module pilot, was thrilled to be back
at center stage.

"I've been waiting a long time," he murmured.

"From the Earth to the Moon" is a 12-part miniseries on HBO on
six consecutive Sunday nights beginning this weekend. It
chronicles events leading up to Aldrin and Neil Armstrong's
historic moon steps on July 20, 1969. And it begins with Alan
Shepard's 15-minute suborbital hop in 1961 and ends with Apollo
17 in 1972, man's last visit to the moon.

The $65 million production was filmed in part at Kennedy Space
Center, where hundreds gathered in late March to preview the
fourth episode, about the Christmas 1968 moon voyage of Apollo 8.

Apollo 15 command module pilot Al Worden liked what he saw.

"There have been a lot of things done on the space program, all
the way from `The Right Stuff' on. None of them has been
particularly real," Worden said. "Most of them have been
fictionalized to the point where they've really kind of lost the
essence of what the program was all about."

The 1995 film, "Apollo 13," starring Tom Hanks as commander Jim
Lovell, told it like it was, Worden said. And now, he said, so
does "From the Earth to the Moon," the brainchild of Hanks, its
executive producer. The miniseries is based in part on Andrew
Chaikin's 1994 book "A Man on the Moon."

HBO and Hanks wanted authenticity and went to great lengths to
achieve it. They obtained: The van that transported Armstrong,
Aldrin and Michael Collins to the launch pad. Recovered: One of
the so-called white rooms from which the Apollo astronauts
boarded their spaceships. Refurbished: A lunar landing research
vehicle similar to those used by astronauts for testing.
Borrowed: A lunar rover built for a moon mission that was
canceled.

And they transformed: A blimp hangar at a California military
base into the six Apollo landing sites. Then the set was loaded
with 3,500 tons of dirt and 2,000 tons of crushed granite to
simulate the moon's gray, rocky surface. And the actors and
stuntmen were hooked to large helium balloons to imitate the
bounce of one-sixth gravity.

The actors had to rein in emotions in the moon-landing scenes,
just as the astronauts did decades before.

A simple "Oh, man!" by Apollo 15's Irwin when his lunar lander
settled onto the moon with a rattling thud and tipped slightly
became an overwrought "Oh, maaaaaan!!!" by actor Williams when
he read the script.

"Naw, that's not how it happened," chided David Scott,
commander of Apollo 15 and a technical consultant to the series.

So Williams went back to a more astronautlike "Oh, man!"

Despite such attention to minutiae, mistakes slipped in. The
maker of theApollo spacecraft is misidentified in one scene, and
the name of an adviser to President Kennedy is misspelled in
another. Video of Saturn 1B and Saturn 5 rockets frequently is
mixed and matched.

Then there are the deliberate errors for dramatic effect. The
movie's Mission Control, for instance, reads the homeward-bound
crew of Apollo 8 a telegram from a woman who poignantly wrote:
"You saved 1968."

In truth, Apollo 8 commander Frank Borman received the message
after his mission was over.

No matter - like his Apollo brethren, Borman enjoyed the film.

Elsewhere in television ...

`20/20': Across the country, there are doctors accused of
repeatedly botching operations, misdiagnosing patients, causing
injury and even death. Now, a central data bank set up by the
government keeps records on all doctors, including those
repeatedly sued for malpractice. But tonight on ABC News' "20/20
Friday," correspondent Arnold Diaz reports that those records
are not available to the public. He speaks to Dr. Thomas Reardon,
chairman of the American Medical Association. The AMA is lobbying
to keep the data bank private so doctors who have settled
nuisance suits are not unfairly stigmatized. He also talks with
Sen. Ron Wyden of Oregon, who is fighting for public access.
"20/20" begins at 10 p.m. EST.

AP-NY-04-02-98 1301EST

 Copyright 1997 The Associated Press.  The information contained
in the AP news report may not be published,  broadcast, rewritten
or otherwise distributed without  prior written authority of The
Associated Press.
------------------------------
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http://www.anomalous-images.com

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http://www.crl.com/~swingate/trading/

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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 5

                       Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images

From: Paul Reischmann <preischmann@beckman.com>
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 10:26:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 13:34:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images


> Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 03:05:36 -0400
> From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com> [Gary Alevy]
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Mars Global Surveyor Images

> > Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 18:04:38 -0600
> > From: Paul Reischmann <preischmann@beckman.com>
> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> > Subject: MGS Images

> > Hello!

> > With regards to 'Cydonia'....

> > If the images from Mars Global Surveyor are not available live on
> > the Net,  and the images don't indicate an artificial structure,  how
> > will this settle the dispute?  Won't the conspiracy theorists accuse
> > everyone of a cover-up?

> > Paul

> You won't need to be a conspiracy theorist to dispute the images,
> just a lawyer or a scientist.  Images have been challenged as to
> their veracity as long as people have been able to create them.

> Remember if there is no independently confirmable chain of
> custody of the information (images, evidence, etc.) it is open
> to challenge on both scientific and legal grounds.

> Perhaps you are among those who still subscribe to the original
> information offered as an explanation for the Gulf of Tonkin
> incident?

> What consitutes evidence?  What constitutes proof?
> Perhaps you should address these issues before raising the
> bogey-man of conspiracy.

> Gary

Conspiracy was not my implication, rather I am suggesting that
although NASA made the right choice in agreeing to photograph the
area, I do not see how it will settle the dispute for the exact
reasons that you point out... what constitutes proof for either
position?

What are the elements that reconnaissance analysts would look for
in the images?  What information would be offered as evidence of
erosion versus evidence of a byproduct of life?

Paul







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                       Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images

From: Paul Reischmann <preischmann@beckman.com>
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 11:40:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 13:42:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images


> Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 10:03:22 -0800 (PST)
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Mars Global Surveyor Images

> >Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 18:04:38 -0600
> >From: Paul Reischmann <preischmann@beckman.com>
> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >Subject: MGS Images

> >Hello!

> >With regards to 'Cydonia'....

> >If the images from Mars Global Surveyor are not available live on
> >the Net,  and the images don't indicate an artificial structure,  how
> >will this settle the dispute?  Won't the conspiracy theorists accuse
> >everyone of a cover-up?

> >Paul

> Hello Paul,

> Since there's indeed a possibility of a coverup, the conspiracy
> theorists might indeed do this, as you say.  But the images by
> themselves can't really prove that this or another structure is
> artificial or not.  All they can do is allow estimates to be made
> of how infinitesimally small the odds may be that the sturcture
> could be a natural one.

That is the point.  As you indicate, it is unlikely that an
image will be received that could be offered as conclusive
evidence of either position, persuasive may be the appropriate
term, and all of us are persuaded by different standards and
criteria. The debate should become invigorated, but it will still
be in debate.

> One thing to expect is that the greatly increased resolution over
> the earlier two photos will bring out effects of Martian erosion
> upon the Face itself, and will likely show irregular drifts of
> Martian dust over certain areas of it.  This could make it seem,
> to negativists, that it is a natural structure, since it would
> detract from the large outlines of the Face itself.

If the new image even remotely resembles the earlier images,
itindicates that the face/object was not a trick of light and
shadow, but won't necessarily indicate what it actually is, a big
rock or a an ancient structure.

> On the other hand, if the entirety of the Face or one of the
> pyramidal structures gets viewed, that could allow more precise
> determination of the general left-right symmetry of the Face, or
> geometry of the pyramid, and satisfy skeptics that DiPietro,
> Molinaar, Brandenburg and others did good jobs in their
> enhancements of the original, somewhat noisy, images. That would
> lend support to all the various analyses that have been done
> implying the structures contain large-scale regularities too
> precise and too numerous to represent natural processes.

>   Jim Deardorff

What characteristics do we look for when trying to find
evidencethat the Cydonia complex is a bunch of
hills/rocks/mountains or a desolate complex of structures
subjected to the natural erosion of the planet?

Would the creators of ancient structures build in nice regular
organized arrangements like terrestrial bees and wasp nests, or
would they be chaotic as are the termite mounds here on Earth?

While symmetry points strongly towards life, a lack of symmetry
does not preclude life.

I am intrigued by the suggestion of Cydonia possibly representing
indicators of an ancient civilization on Mars, but I would also
be thrilled to observe indicators of any type of life, past or
present, even termites!

Life hides in camouflage!

Regards-
Paul







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   Apr > Apr 5

                     Re: 'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real

From: Whitewolf <witewolf@neptune.on.ca> [Paul Whitewolf]
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 98 10:42:04 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 13:36:53 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real


She-ko (hello) Errol and list,

>Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 22:09:27 -0800
>From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Vatican Says ET Contacts Real

>This is from http://www.sightings.com

<snip>

>Balducci provided the Catholic Church's analysis of
>extraterrestrials, emphasizing that extraterrestrial encounters
>"are NOT demonic, they are NOT due to psychological impairment,
>they are NOT a case of entity attachment, but these encounters
>deserve to be studied carefully."

>Since Monsignor Balducci is a Vatican expert exorcist, and since
>the Catholic Church has historically demonized many new phenomena
>that were poorly understood, his proclaiming the Vatican's
>non-censure of these encounters is all the more remarkable.

<snip>

Goodness, the Papal shorts must be in a knot, or we have evidence
that marijuana has made it's way into the Vatican. Having spent
13 years in Catholic schools I find it truly shocking that the
Papacy might be starting to have so open a mind as to redefine
it's paradigm out of either necessity or an acknowledgment of the
truth...

His Worship must have had an epiphany me thinks. Perhaps one that
descended on a perfectly round, symmetrical cloud :-).

I promise I shall do 15 Our Fathers and 30 Hail Mary's for
this post.

Regards,
Paul.


...Beware of nuns with bad habits...(shame on me).






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   Apr > Apr 5

                     Re: 'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real

From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net>
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 11:37:21 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 13:38:22 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real

Skye Turell wrote ...

> Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 22:09:27 -0800
> From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Vatican Says ET Contacts Real

> This is from http://www.sightings.com

> Vatican Admits On National
> TV That ET Contact IS REAL
> From Ross Dowe
> 4-4-98

Well, well.  You know, if this is true, I do believe it won't be
long before the UFO research community might as well close down
operations, and get on with their lives.  No need to continue to
chase what is apparently going to be common public knowledge any
day now.  Better to spend your time helping your family and
friends get through their own cases of culture shock.

Just spitting in the wind,
-Brian Cuthbertson





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                            PHENOMENON Issue # 5

From: Bob <bob.t@mindspring.com> [Bob Tidwell]
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 11:43:12 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 14:55:20 -0400
Subject: PHENOMENON Issue # 5


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     PHENOMENON
     E-Mail Newsletter             A Forum for the
     # 5                        Strangeness Around us
     April 5, 1998

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         In This Issue

               *** Editor's Notes
               *** Meet Our MUFON Editor
               *** The True Nature of UFO Radar Reports
               *** The Alabama Files ~
                   ~ Strangeness in the Governor's Mansion
               *** The Lighter Side ~
                   ~ Alien Humor
               *** Newsletter Guidelines

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                    -------------------
                     Quote of the Week
                    -------------------

"Two wrongs don't make a right, three lefts make a right."

Found on the inside of a cap, off of a Mistic Fruit Juice bottle.

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                 ----------------
                  Editor's Notes
                 ----------------

Welcome to Issue # 5.

The real estate business is really booming, and this issue of
PHENOMENON was just barely put together in time. So, starting
with the next issue, PHENOMENON will be sent out biweekly instead
of weekly. Hopefully, this will give me more time to insure that
this newsletter maintains it's present quality.

I would also very much like to have your input as to what type of
articles that you would like read about in future newsletters.
You're also welcome to submit articles for publication. They
don't necessarily have to be about UFOs, just anything strange or
unusual.

I hope that you enjoy the articles in this issue. As for now, I
have to find a 3 bedroom, 2 bath with hardwood floors.


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           -----------------------
            Meet Our MUFON Editor
           -----------------------

HI EVERYONE!

Please allow me a few lines to introduce myself. My name is Nancy
Lawson. I am the Central Alabama State Section Director for MUFON
(Mutual UFO Network) and a Certified Field Investigator with the
same organization. I'm located in
Birmingham, Alabama.

As Bob mentioned before, I am a part of his newsletter staff and
will be writing about Central Alabama MUFON, it's functions,
meetings and investigations, and I'll also keep you updated on
any information pertaining to our international MUFON headquarters.
Perhaps I can even answer any questions you might have
pertaining to MUFON, our operations and our proceedures. You may
direct any pertinent questions or comments to:

Phenomenon Newsletter at bob.t@mindspring.com   attention: Nancy

Or you can contact me directly at either:

          adian@alonline.com   or   adian@zebra.net

Now that all the preliminaries are over (whew!!), here we go.

On Sunday, Mar. 29, 1998, at 1:00pm, MUFON Birmingham met for an
enjoyable lunch at the Pioneer Cafeteria in the Roebuck area.
Afterward, at 2:00pm, an informative, interesting meeting at the
same location, was held. Pat Trott, a member of MUFON and "Field
Investigator Trainee", conducted the meeting. (I was in
Huntsville, Al. attending a class). An open discussion was held
on the subject of nano technology --a most interesting and
intriguing subject-- and the striking parallels between what it
predicts or the future and UFOs as physical craft representing
advanced technologies. Those who were "up" on the subject joined
in with the conversation, and those who weren't sat back to learn
all about it. Members and non members all joined into the
discussion the meetings are open to the general public as well).

More information on this fantastic subject can be read in our
March '98 issue of "The Mutual UFO Network UFO Journal", No.359,
available through MUFON at:

     International Mufon Headquarters
     Att: MUFON UFO Journal
     103 Oldtowne Rd.
     Seguin, TX, 78155-4099

     Tel:(830)379-9216
     FAX:(830)372-9439.

After that discussion, the usual "round robin" type discussions
went on as to who might have a sighting to report, who might have
heard of a sighting, and what happened at the Project Awareness
"Gulf Breeze UFO Conference" the preceeding weekend.  (Hope
to give a little insight on this subject also in a week or two.
As usual, I was there.)  Needless to say, everyone enjoyed the
info, jokes, laughter (which we never omit) and the like-minded
ways of thinking and viewing such a vast, strange subject as the
UFO phenomenon.

On Saturday, Mar. 29, '98, at 5:00pm, I attented the Huntsville,
Alabama MUFON meeting. It too was informative and fun.  We
discussed everything from the movie "Men In Black" (most recent
one) to what it would take to show the ETs we're grown up enough
now to communicate with them--NOT destroy them--to crop circles
and what their meaning might be --if there is a meaning-- and
also the many hoaxes surrounding them.

We had a lot of fun and enjoyment with these topics.  All
personality types were present, so naturally every viewpoint
imaginable came through.  A delightful evening it was.

Now for a little "nugget" of info.

On Monday, March,30,'98, between the hrs. of 9:45pm and 10:30pm,
a "sighting" was reported to Sue Pitts, our Assistant Alabama
State Director for MUFON, in Huntsville, Al.  Since the location
of the sighting occurred in the Central Alabama area, Sue called
me with all the info including the names, addresses and phone
numbers of the witnesses.

I met with all known witnesses and received an indepth set of
reports from all envolved.  Interestengly, this was not the first
such sighting they had witnessed in the area. They were extremely
courteous and excited over what they had seen. I enjoyed meeting
them as much as I did hearing what they had to say. They were
cooperative and very helpful.

This has turned out to be a very interesting sighting with much
information that I hope to be able to pass on to you readers in
the future. (Of course, all witness names, addresses, and phone
numbers will be withheld from the article).

The sighting occurred in the Warrior River area, near the
communities of Alliance and Oak Grove.

As always, it would be so helpful if any of you in the general
vacinity between Hueytown and the Warrior River, who may have
seen anything on or near the date and time mentioned above, or if
you know of someone who may have, would get in touch with me. A
y and all information will be held in strictest confidence, if
you so choose.  (This has always been the policy of MUFON and
it's investigators).

Well folks, I think I've chattered enough.  It's been great
sharing info with you and I hope to have much more for you in the
coming months.

Cheerio,

Nancy (aka ADIAN)

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       --------------------------------------
        The True Nature of UFO Radar Reports
       --------------------------------------

While reading a magazine article that contained a UFO report
regarding a sighting in South Carolina, my attention was caught
by a statement that the local Radar Squadron in North Charleston
had verified the UFO's high rate of speed and sudden turns. Ala
m bells immediately went off in my mind. It just so happens, as
things like this do, that I was once stationed at this particular
radar site, and I knew for sure that what I was reading was not
true.

This started me thinking about other radar reports and their
accuracy. I'm presenting the following article in order to give
the average person a better understanding about the TRUE nature
of how radar "looks" at airborne objects, and what kind of useful
information it can give researchers. I'm not talking about the
military's phased arrays and such (some of these units can follow
UFO's accurately), but the older types that NORAD used in the 60s
and 70s, and the older FAA units, most of which are still in use
today.

      **********************************************

First, let's look at a simplified version of the way radar works.

A radar transmitter sends out a very powerful burst of electronic
microwave energy. This burst of energy, called a pulse, travels
through an enclosed conduit, called a waveguide, to a reflector.
The reflector shapes the pulse into a very narrow beam, whi
h is then directed outward, away from the radar site. If this
pulsed beam of directed energy strikes a suitably reflective
object, it then returns back to the reflector, which is now
acting as a collector, down the waveguide to a receiver, and
displayed n a radar scope.

We usually think of the rotating reflector as an antenna, but the
actual antenna is located at the point where the waveguide joins
to the transmitter, sometimes hundreds of feet away. (This
antenna is usually very small, about the size of a short piece of
larger pencil lead) The waveguide keeps the transmitted signal
from radiating out into the air until it reaches the reflector.
The most common reflectors, those that we are used to seeing, are
the ones that look like a large slice of "orange peak" laid
n a horizontal axis, and rotates in a continuous 360
degree circle. This type of reflector shapes the pulsed energy
into a narrow vertical beam that extends from the ground up to a
very high altitude (usually 50 - 100 thousand feet).

[Note: Bear in mind that we are referring to the radar used to
detect aircraft. Other radar units, such as those used on boats,
and weather radar, work on this same principle, except that the
pulsed beams are shaped differently, and/or setup to detect ot
er than solid objects (such as moisture in the air.]

As the vertical pulsed beam is rotated in a circle, portions of
it may bounce off aircraft and back towards the radar site. The
radar scope that is attached to the receiving unit has an
electronic "line" that moves around in a circle, in the same
manner as a hand of a clock. The line corresponds to the
direction that the radar reflector is presently pointing. This
gives the radar operator the bearing, or direction, of the
aircraft from the radar site. The range, or distance, is
determined by the time that the pulse takes to travel outward
from the transmitter and be reflected back to the receiver. This
type of radar is referred to as search radar.

With this simplified concept of radar in mind, lets look at some
common misconceptions we may have concerning radar reports of
UFOs:

One of several things that determines the maximum distance at
which objects can be "seen" with radar, is the speed at which the
radar reflector turns. If it turns too fast the reflector will
have moved too far to properly focus the returning weak pulses
from the most distant objects back into the waveguide, and to the
receiver. Think of the reflector as making a complete circle
about once every 30 seconds or so.

Once the narrow vertical beam intersects with an airborne object,
the reflected pulse travels back to the receiver and is displayed
on the radar screen as a small dot, called a blip. The radar does
not display another blip until the reflector rotates completely
around and intersects the object again. The speed can then be
determined by comparing the distance that the object traveled
between blips. The radar has no idea at all as to what the object
did in between blips.

In other words, this type of  radar cannot determine if the
object is making right-angle turns, or even minor maneuvers. It
can only detect where the object is during the brief instant that
the rotating beam reflects off of it. Only a rough guess of the
light path can be made by plotting out the position of several
blips.

Search radar also cannot show the altitude of an object. To
determine altitude you would need a height-finder radar. But how,
you ask, is the altitude of aircraft normally determined? Mounted
on top of the reflector is a narrow horizontal antenna that se
ds out a coded radio signal, also in a beam similar to the radar
pattern. Whenever the radar detects an airborne object, it also
sends out the coded radio transmission, which is picked up by a
special receiver on the aircraft, which then sends coded info
mation back to the radar's radio antenna. The
receiver/transmitter unit on the aircraft is called a
transponder.

The transponder is connected to the aircraft's altimeter, and
sends this information back to the radar site. The transponder
also contains information about the aircraft's flight plan, what
type of aircraft (military, commercial, private, other...), and
ther useful data. But, the transponder data is not displayed on
the radar scope. It's part of a separate transmitting and
receiving system. So how do radar operators manage to keep track
of all this input? This is were radar gets interesting.

NOBODY IS LOOKING AT THE ACTUAL RADAR RETURNS, and haven't been
since the 1960s. It's all handled by computers. There is an
actual radar scope at the receiving site, but it is only used for
maintenance and testing. Someone could be looking at this scope,
but trust me, this get very boring after a while, and anyone at
the site soon learns to ignore this scope. The actual radar
operators are often some distance away, and don't have access to
an actual radar scope. What they are looking at is a computer gen
rated simulation of a combination of the radar and
transponders returns. More on this later. First, lets return to
the radar site where I was stationed in North Charleston.

The UFO report stated that the radar site had been contacted, and
that the UFO had been confirmed by radar. This couldn't be true,
since anyone rarely ever looked at the actual radar scope. Even
if they were, they wouldn't be aware that a UFO was being
displayed among the many blips being displayed on the scope.
(This site was located next to the Charleston Airport and
Charleston AFB, a very busy MAC base during that time period)

The North Charleston Radar site was an Aerospace Defense Command
site that collected and passed along East Coast radar and flight
data to NORAD. If someone had managed to find a correct telephone
number to contact the site, they wouldn't have been given any
sensitive information, even though there wasn't any information
to give. The radar and transponder information were automatically
fed into a computer, which processed the signals and passed them
along to NORAD via a network that was the forerunner of
oday's internet.

[Note: this is where the internet actually started. The Military
had to have a reliable method of getting this sensitive data
across the country from various radar and information gathering
sites via several different pathways. Research facilities and
certain universities were later added to this Government/Military
network, where their employees began using the network for
business and personal applications. As other institutions were
added, this network eventually got out of control of the
Government, resulting in today' World Wide Web.

There are stories that this was all planned by the Shadow
Government as a means of monitoring and controlling future
civilian communications and transactions. One of the stories
states that all e-mail goes through the Pentagon, and is
monitored by special computers for content.]

Let's go back now to how radar data is monitored. After being
processed by computers, the radar and transponder signals are
then displayed on special screens, to be user by radar operators,
now called air traffic controllers. Instead of blips, a different
symbol is displayed on the screen for various types of aircraft.
A military aircraft, for example, would be represented by a star.
Next to the symbol is displayed an aircraft's ID number and the
altitude.

Any airborne object not sending back a transponder signal would
automatically be considered an unknown by the computer and would
immediately issue an alert to NORAD. An interceptor aircraft
would then be dispatched to make a visual sighting. Most of these
intercepts turn out to aircraft with malfunctioning transponders,
but some of the rest are now part of UFO history.

Another benefit of having computers control radar data is that
the computer program can be controlled so as to ignore certain
aircraft. Black Project crafts could fly around at night without
lights and not be "seen" by any air traffic controllers. (How
many times have mysterious craft been seen by civilian and
commercial pilots and not be confirmed by airport radar?)
Aircraft could also be displayed that are not really there. The
president could leave for a claimed destination, only to divert
to another secret location, with air traffic controllers "seeing"
his plane continue on to the original destination. If duplicate
Air Force Ones were used, no one would suspect that the switch
had occurred.

[Note: This reminds me of the recent disappearance of the
President's plane on radar, which was linked to a New Jersey site
being momentarily shutdown for repairs. I fail to see why a site
would be scheduled for shutdown during a presidential flyover,
and if so, why would there be cause for concern if there were two
backup sites as claimed. There is more to this story, and maybe
more information will be leaked about this disappearance.]

Hopefully this has cleared the air a bit concerning UFO radar
reports. Of course, the military has special types of radars that
actually can detect rapid and unusual UFO maneuvers, but
researchers don't have access to these radars. Remember, the ones
that I'm referring to in this article are the older sites still
being used by the FAA, and the now obsolete and shutdown
Aerospace Defense Command sites used in the 60s and 70s. (They
have since been replaced by airborne radars placed atop special
military aircraft)

                        ~~~ Bob ~~~



<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

                -------------------
                 The Alabama Files
                -------------------

         Strangeness in the Governor's Mansion
       *****************************************

Alabama's First Lady, Bobbie James, is reported to have ordered
the removable of certain portraits of Confederate War heroes from
the Governor's Mansion. This was after her spiritual advisor
suggested to her that the paintings were possessed. A portrait
of Confederacy President Jefferson Davis was replaced with a
reproduction of the Ten Commandments. For the full story check
out:

        http://rogue.northwest.com/~crt/writ/moore05.htm

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

               ------------------
                The Lighter Side
               ------------------

                   Alien Humor
                 ***************

Two small aliens have landed their saucer beside the local golf
course. One alien turns to the other and says - "see, I told you
that these Earthlings had strange customs. They put on their
ugliest clothes and then they lay their eggs in those small holes
in the middle of the green circles."

     **********

My favorite "Far Side" cartoon depicted a giant saucer that had
landed on the White House lawn, with a long "stairway" extending
down to the ground. Two bug-eyed aliens are staring down at a
third alien that has just tripped and fallen all the way to the
bottom of the stairs. The caption reads - "So much for instilling
them with awe and wonder!"

     **********

Wouldn't it be something if we discovered that the real reason
that the aliens have been here for so long is that they are lost,
and being mostly males, are too stubborn to ask for directions.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

                   -----------------------
                    Newsletter Guidelines
                   -----------------------


                 PHENOMENON is a FREE newsletter

To add or remove yourself from our mailing list, please send an
E-Mail to:

               bob.t@mindspring.com.

The purpose of this free newsletter is to provide a forum for
information and discussion concerning the strangeness that
surrounds us in our daily lives. Articles, comments and/or
suggestions are welcome.

Articles may include, but are not limited to:
          ... UFOs & Ghost Lights
          ... The Paranormal
          ... New World Order
          ... Conspiracies
          ... Time Travel
          ... Hidden History
          ... etc...

We welcome:
          ... Feature Articles
          ... Analysis, Commentary or Updates
          ... Your Own Report of Strange Phenomena

All contributions to PHENOMENON E-Mail Newsletter must be in
English.

We reserved the right to edit for language, grammar and space.

            Anonymity will be provided if requested.

Segments or single quotes from articles may be reprinted in other
newsletters, bulletin boards or web sites, with permission from
the Editor, as long as credit is given to PHENOMENON E-Mail
Newsletter and, if applies, to the original source.

Thanks
       Bob

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
                  (C) Bob Tidwell, 1998
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
                         ~~~ End ~~~
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>










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   Apr > Apr 5

                      Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 98 12:05:57 PDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 15:01:03 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"


> Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 23:34:27 -0500
> From: The Duke of Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith]
> Subject: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


> The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments to the List.

> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> >From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"
> >Date: Sat, 04 Apr 98 11:40:08 PST


> > Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 21:27:33 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
> > From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

> So much for that. Whereas, Jerome also (post cited above) wrote:

> >All I ask
> >is that you don't bring your beliefs into a secular arena where
> >logic and  evidence, not belief matters, are at issue. There is a
> >place to take up the latter, and it's not here.

> But with that I have to disagree. So much of "ufology" is
> entangled with "belief" - from extreme debunker to extreme true
> believer - that, I submit, it's impossible to draw a line between
> what is secular and what is not in this field (not excluding
> debunkers - in the Truzzian sense of the word - from this rough
> delineation).

Well, true, more or less, I guess, but also not entirely so.
"Belief" used in contexts such as the above is sometimes abused
in ufological polemic, where the real subtext is: "What I know I
know, and what you think you know you only believe." Yes, people
do hold foolish points of view (e.g., everybody who disagrees
with me), but ideally, theoretically, and sometimes even
demonstrably, ideas in ufology can be argued, and eventually
resolved, using reason and evidence. Religious matters are
another question, as any good theologian would agree. That's why
such folk talk about faith and why some regard as blasphemous the
effort to bring scientific validation to Bible or other religious
claims.

> I would say: don't exclude, or refuse admittance, anyone from the
> debate. If you have faith [sic] in rational argument then you
> have landed yourself with the duty of demonstrating its superior
> powers - *and* abiding by its inevitable limitations.

> Besides, it ain't your List already, that you should set the rules!

I wasn't setting the rules. I thought Errol does those things,
and as far as I have been led to believe, this is not a list
dealing with Bible prophecy.  If it is, let me off.

Except for these cavils, I loved your posting, Duke.

Cheers,

Jerry Clark





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                        German "Jets" in World War II

From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 12:34:17 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 15:03:42 -0400
Subject: German "Jets" in World War II

Extract of Message from to HQ, 9th AF from HQ 9th Tactical
Air Command about activity during the night of 21/22 Nov 1944

The 422d Night Fighter Squadron encountered:

  "4-6 Jet E/A in Coblenz area, 1900-2000 hours.  3 seen at one
time, line abreast.  1 twin ket [sic] E/A senn in same area...."

For night 27/28 Nov 1944:

   "Three jet planes active in Cologne-Bonn area, 2330-0330."

Some aviation historians have spoken on the lack of German jet night
fighter squadrons in this area. However, the radar and other
training to make good night fighters might not be needed if the
only purpose was to attack ground positions at night.

The 422d NFS was LTC (later Gen) O. B. Johnson's squadron.
Because of his attitude they could not report "foo-fighters,"
they could, however, report "jets" and "rockets."  They did
make such reports with the regularity that the 415th reported
"foo-fighters."

The question is what night jet activity was there near the Rhein
and Mossel areas.

The British pilots reported "phoo-fighters,"  "The Light" or "The
Thing."  They also tried to rationalize their sightings by saying
there was some type of light located in the nose of the enemy
aircraft. Later their reports became jets or rockets.

It would be interesting to know to what extend German jets were
active at night. Any information on German jet night activity
would be most welcome.


--
Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.iufog.org/project1947/






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   Apr > Apr 5

                     UK.UFO.NW -IRC- guest Kevin Randle

From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 18:14:47 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 14:57:41 -0400
Subject: UK.UFO.NW -IRC- guest Kevin Randle

UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK

- Please note that uk.ufo.nw have now changed IRC servers. We now
meet on Chatnet. A full list of Chatnet servers can be found at
the foot of this mail -

Saturday 11th April 1998

United Kingdom UFO Network are proud to announce our special
guest:

Kevin Randle

Kevin will be answering your questions live in a moderated
meeting starting at 11pm (UK time) Saturday 11th April 1998.

Kevin D. Randle is a professional writer who, for more than
twenty years, has been studying the UFO phenomenon. Training by
the Army as a helicopter pilot, and by the Air Force as an
intelligence officer, provides Randle with a unique insight into
the operations of the military, their investigations of UFOs, and
into a phenomenon that has puzzled people since the Kenneth
Arnold UFO sighting in June 1947.

During his investigations, Randle has traveled the United States
to interview hundreds of witnesses who were involved in
everything from the famous Roswell, New Mexico UFO crash of 1947,
to the repeated radar sightings of UFOs over Washington, D.C. in
1952, to the latest of the abduction cases. Randle was among the
first journalists to have the opportunity to review the files of
the Air Force's UFO study, Project Blue Book when they were
declassified in 1976. As a writer, Randle has produced more than
80 books on a variety of topics. In 1988 he published The October
Scenario about alien abductions. In 1989, he wrote The UFO
Casebook, an in-depth look at some of the biggest UFO cases in
the last fifty years. In 1991, his UFO Crash at Roswell,
co-authored with Donald R. Schmitt, was published, which provided
the ground work for the ShowTime feature "Roswell." The Truth
about the UFO Crash at Roswell was published in 1994. The
hardback contained new witnesses and new data about the
controversial case. A History of UFO Crashes was published in
1995. It was a study of the reports of UFO crashes, beginning
with tales from the Great Airship in 1897, and included the
latest about the fraudulent MJ-12 documents.

Although the lion's share of his work has been fiction, much of
that required extensive research. Science fiction novels that
explored the Battle of the Alamo, Gettysburg and the Battle of
the Little Bighorn, were as accurate in every detail as they
could possibly be. Randle spent time at the battlefields, spends
days in archival research, and more time compiling detailed
research notes using various books, articles and newspaper
accounts.

He has published military oriented science fiction novels
including Seeds of War, The Aldebaran Campaign, and The Aquarian
Campaign. He is the author of the science fiction series
Jefferson's War and Star Percinct. He is a lifetime member of
Science Fiction Writers of America.

He has written on various subjects including a theory that
Francis Gary Powers was not shot down by a Soviet missile, but
that his plane was sabotaged in Turkey before the flight began.
In his nonfiction articles, he has written about the Vietnam War,
the Civil War, and even the Fetterman Massacre of 1866. Using the
historical records available, Randle has learned how to
reconstruct history from eyewitness accounts, interviews, and the
vast research resources available.

Randle, a respected author, has published more than eighty
articles about UFOs. He has also appeared on a variety of
national television programs including Unsolved Mysteries, 48
Hours, Good Morning America, CBS This Morning, Larry King Live,
The Maury Povich Show, Rolanda, Sonya Live, A Closer Look with
Faith Daniels and Sightings. He has consulted on a number of
video projects and has helped write or produce several.

Randle provides a unique way of looking at the UFO phenomenon, is
quick to point out the hoax and the fraud, and leave the fine
residue of reliable cases. In a field filled with misinformation,
government manipulation, and outright fraud, that is the best
that can be done.

Published Works of Nonfiction

The UFO Casebook - Warner Books - 1989
The October Scenario - Berkley Books - 1989
UFO Crash at Roswell - Avon Books - 1991 - *+
The Truth about the UFO Crash at Roswell - M. Evans & Co. - 1994 - *
To Touch the Light - Pinnacle Books - 1994 History of UFO Crashes -
Avon Books - 1995 Lost Gold and Buried Treasure - M. Evans & Co. -
1995 Roswell UFO Crash Update - Global Communications - 1995 The
Randle Report: UFOs in the 1990s - M. Evans & Co. - 1997 Project Blue
Book - Exposed - Marlowe & Co. - 1997  Conspiracy of Silence - Avon
Books - 1997 Faces of the Visitors - Simon & Schuster - 1997 - ++

*with Donald R. Schmitt
+Made into the ShowTime movie: Roswell
++ with Russ Estes

Video Productions

Associate Producer UFO Secret: Roswell Crash - 1991
Consultant Channel 4 (UK) Alien Autopsy - 1995
Writer Roswell Remembered - 1997

---

If you are using one of the dedicated IRC programs such as the
excellent MIRC available free from: http://www.mirc.co.uk/ enter
one of the below irc server addresses into your program. The
nearer the server to your location the faster the connection. If
one fails then try another.

MIRC is probably the best IRC program there is and it's free. To
download MIRC for Win95 or Win 3.1/3.11 fully configured for
connection goto:

http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk

Select 'Other Files' button.

To connect to the IRC channel using your java compatible web browser
goto:

http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk
http://www.crowman.demon.co.uk

-Chatnet Servers-

LosAngeles.CA.US.ChatNet.Org
Pocatello.ID.US.ChatNet.Org
Chelmsford.MA.US.ChatNet.Org
Louisville.KY.US.ChatNet.Org
Portland.OR.US.Chatnet.Org
SLC.UT.US.ChatNet.Org
k9.chatnet.org
Tupelo.MS.US.Chatnet.Org
RockHill.SC.US.ChatNet.Org
StLouis.MO.US.Chatnet.Org
Pensacola.FL.US.ChatNet.org
Chicago.IL.US.ChatNet.Org
Skien.NO.EU.ChatNet.Org
London.UK.EU.ChatNet.Org
Dayton.OH.US.ChatNet.Org
Scranton.PA.US.ChatNet.Org
SF.CA.US.ChatNet.Org
ChatWorld.ChatNet.Org
WalnutCreek.CA.US.ChatNet.Org

Times of the meeting will vary depending on your part of the
world. We advise you to check for equivalent UK times.


We look forward to seeing you there.
--------------------------------
United Kingdom UFO Network
ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk
http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/
--------------------------------





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 5

                    The Millennium Report - April 5, 1998

From: psa@direct.ca (Paul Anderson)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 09:57:24 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 15:44:47 -0400
Subject: The Millennium Report - April 5, 1998


The Millennium Report
April 5, 1998


The Millennium Report is the weekly on-line news service
of The Millennium Group, an independent future studies
research organization, which provides the latest current
information on a wide range of the most phenomenal,
controversial and enigmatic issues of our time, and their
possible implications as we approach the next Millennium;
TMR is an alternative source of information which is often
ignored or sensationalized by the mainstream and tabloid
media.

Editor:
Paul Anderson
psa@direct.ca

______________________________


SPECIAL BULLETIN
First New Photos of Cydonia on Mars Expected
Within Hours

Mars Life Theory Gains Momentum

Senior White House Correspondent Issues
Press Release Regarding (Ending?) Coverup of UFOs

Major UFO Sightings in Indiana Follow Florida Wave

New Dust Ring Discovered Around Jupiter

Antimatter Power No Longer Science Fiction

______________________________


Complete report on the TMG web site:
http://mypage.direct.ca/p/psa/

Note: the TMG web site requires a frames-enabled
browser, and TMR is designed for a frames environment;
please access TMR through the main TMG web site for
proper viewing.

______________________________


For further information or correspondence, contact:

Paul Anderson

Director
THE MILLENNIUM GROUP
Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue, Vancouver, BC  V6J 1J4
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://mypage.direct.ca/p/psa/

Director
CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA
Affiliate of Circles Phenomenon Research International
Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue, Vancouver, BC  V6J 1J4
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310









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   Apr > Apr 5

                   Re: UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing?

From: Bruno Mancusi <Bruno.Mancusi@com.mcnet.ch>
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 20:47:19 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 15:57:35 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing?

Hi list members, I'm new to this list,

>Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 09:28:55 +0200
>From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.ALPcom.it>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing?
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Cc: Mancusi Bruno <Bruno.Mancusi@com.mcnet.ch>


> >From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch)
> >Date: 03 Apr 98 00:10:00 +0000

<snip>

> >"Mr. Armin Risi presented a sensationel revealation to the
> >audience: in January 1997, the Tessin tv-station "TSI" (which is
> >the tv-station of the Italian speaking part of Switzerland)
> >broadcasted a high-class four part tv-documentation about UFOs.
> >The producer was the renowned journalist Guido Ferrari. After the
> >documentations a discussion took place with professors and ph.d's
> >of the relevant sciences. Among them was Dr. Dino Dini from
> >Italy, a longstanding NASA employee, who has been invited to
> >argufy from the sceptic point of view.

> Dino Dini can hardly be described as a UFO "sceptic".

<snip>

> Since at least 1992, Dino Dini has written and spoken publicly about
> UFOs, as a member of the "Scientific Committee" of the Italian
> fundamentalist UFO group, Centro Ufologico Nazionale (CUN)

> >Near the end of the discussion the TSI performed an uncut film of
> >the Moon landing. You could see, how astronaut Neil Armstrong
> >entered the Moon and you could hear what he said:

<snip>

> Our Swiss colleagues do own a tape recording of that
> TV program. I am sending copy of this message to Bruno Mancusi, who
> might be able to give more details, even if only to confirm or deny
> what Dino Dini actually said on TV.


Thank you Edoardo, I agree mostly with you. The transcript, I
have no time to verify, but the conversation with the
astronaut seems correct (based on my recollections). The answer
of Dino Dini can well be OK too, because he was a UFO buff before
being a so-called "former NASA employee" (which is not proven).

Some other remarks :

1. The Guido Ferrari�s show "UFO" was 4 episodes broadcast by
Televisione Svizzera di lingua Italiana (TSI, Italian-speaking
Swiss television):

 a) "UFO : top secret", 12 January 1997, 9:15 PM (sightings).
(This first episode was also broadcast by the German-speaking
Swiss television SF1 on 27 September 1997, 4:05 PM.)

b) "UFO: incontri raviccinati", 13 January 1997, 9:40 PM
(contactees and abductions).

c) "UFO: antichi astronauti", 12 January 1997, 10:45 PM (ancient
astronauts).

d) "UFO: cosmic Watergate", 14 January 1997, 8:30 PM (cover-up).

The lunar and space sightings were presented in the last one,
which was followed by a "debate" with Auguste Meessen, Corrado
Malanga, Dino Dini, Giorgio Buonvino and Roberto Pinotti. But
there was no skeptic researcher or scientist, so there was no
real debate.

2. The "high-class four part tv-documentation about UFOs" is
indeed interesting, but completely biased in the pro-ETH
direction.

For example, here are some names of interviewed people: Stanton
Friedman, Reg Presley, Robert Dean, Wendelle Stevens, Bruce
Maccabee, Carlos Diaz, Jaime Maussan, Zecharia Sitchin, Robert
Bauval, Colin Andrews, Guido Moosbrugger, Corrado Malanga,
Roberto Pinotti, Giorgio Dibitonto, Giorgio Bongiovanni.

I was interviewed myself by Ferrari in July 1995 but this didn't
appeard in the show, perhaps I was too serious...

3. It's usual in Italy to exaggerate peoples titles and
qualifications. For example all participants in the "debate" on
January 14, 1997, were presented as "professor at the University
of..." which is correct only (it seems) for Meessen (Belgium).

4. But the Dino Dini claims and qualifications are not important.
It would be far more interesting to hear from NASA if that damned





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   Apr > Apr 5

                      UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 14

From: Masinaigan <Masinaigan@aol.com> [Joseph Trainor]
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 14:19:17 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 15:44:11 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 14


     UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 3, Number 14
April 5, 1998
Editor: Joseph Trainor

TRIANGULAR UFOs SIGHTED
IN SOUTHERN INDIANA

     Numerous V-shaped or triangular UFOs were
sighted last week in southern Indiana around
Evansville (population 126,272).
     On Sunday, March 22, 1998, at 10 p.m.,
ufologist Lynn Taylor and his wife Linda were
driving home to Bloomington on Highway 37.  As
they neared Martinsville (population 11,677), about
25 miles (40 kilometers) south of Indianapolis,
the couple "got a glimpse of a giant, round, dimly-lit
object, perhaps 50 feet above a hill, off to our right,"
i.e. to the west.  Taylor reported, "This is only the
fourth time I have witnessed this type of object."
     On Monday, March 23, 1998, Cal Washburn, an
Indiana TV producer, spotted a UFO in the sky over
Spurgeon, Ind. (population 250), while traveling on
Highway Highway 61 about 19 miles (30 kilometers)
south of Petersburg.
     As he reached a hilltop, Washburn "could see
through (the branches of) a tree, some lights that were
'enormous.'"  He counted "four to six red-colored lights
that were in a 'perfect row.'"  He reported that "another
four or five lights went off and on intermittently...They
moved in a perfect formation.  It was as if they were
attached to something."
     On Friday evening, March 27, 1998, three residents of
Evansville called WTVW Channel 7 and reported seeing
"a light twice as bright as Venus."  Looking closer, they
spied a triangular UFO with "yellow, white and blue bright
lights...with a brilliant white light on the leading edge."
     In Princeton, Ind. (population 8,127), located on
Highway 64 about 27 miles (43 kilometers) north of
Evansville, residents reported "a large ring of UFOs seen
at the rear of the Toyota manufacturing plant" on the
outskirts of town.
     In Petersburg, Ind. (population 2,449), located on
Highway 57 about 14 miles (23 kilometers) north of
Princeton, people reported seeing "a large grey triangle
with five lights on one side."
     A "giant flying triangle" was also reported that
evening in Otwell, Ind. (population 500), located on
Highway 257 about eight miles (11 kilometers) southeast
of Petersburg.
     At 11:02 p.m., Jana Taylor, 14, daughter of Lynn and
Linda Taylor of Bloomington, was riding in a car with her
friend Karen and Karen's mother, Kate, on old Highway 37
just south of Dolan, Ind. when she spotted something
strange in the sky.
     Jana said she "spotted a triangle-shaped craft hovering
motionless, about 15 feet above the trees on a hillside off
to our right."
     "You could make out the shape because of light
pollution from (nearby) Bloomington," Jana reported,
"The object had a large, bright bluish-white light at each of
the three corners.  You know what it would look like if you
had a blue lens, then put a white lightbulb behind it that's
too bright, how the white will overpower the blue, but you
could still see some blue?"
     Jana pointed it out to Karen and her mother.  Kate
pulled onto a side road.  Here they saw more lights on
the craft, which Jana described as "four non-blinking red
lights that could be seen in the middle area."  The UFO
then "turned southwest towards Bloomington and dropped
behind the hills nearby."  (Many thanks to Lynn Taylor,
Steve Wilson Sr., Jerry Stevers of MUFON and Kenneth
Young of Tri-States Advocates for Scientific Knowledge,
T.A.S.K., for these reports.)

TWO UFO SIGHTINGS REPORTED
IN WESTERN KENTUCKY

     On Saturday evening, March 28, 1998, witnesses in
Hawesville, Kentucky (population 1,150), a town on the
south shore of the Ohio River 40 miles (64 kilometers)
east of Evansville, Indiana, reported sighting "a very bright
light in the eastern sky, moving slowly to the south."
     On Tuesday, March 31, 1998, Mortimer V. Sloane
spotted a "blinking red light on my farm coming from the
southwest.  I didn't see any structure, just the flashing
lights.  I have to tell you, this cannot be seen without
binoculars--there's something about the red.  It's hard
to pick out.  They stayed in view for two to five minutes.
They were about 45 degrees (above the horizon), maybe
a little higher.  There was no other glow except for the
blinking red light."
     He described the UFO as looking like this   *   in
the binoculars' field of view.
     The Sloane farm is near Wakefield, Kentucky, on
Highway 85 about 36 miles (58 kilometers) southeast
of Louisville.  (Email Interview)

TWO NEW SIGHTINGS ON
FLORIDA'S EAST COAST

     On Sunday, March 29, 1998, at 5:30 p.m., Kathy D.
woke up at her home in North Palm Beach, Florida
(population 11,343) on Route 1 about 70 miles
(112 kilometers) north of Miami.  "I rose early at 5:30
a.m. to get my cat, who was out on the patio, and
looked up in the east-southeast sky to see a light,
and I do mean a huge, bright white light.  It was about
one-third the size of a full moon.  Unbelievable!"
     "My first thought is that it was a UFO, but then I
tried to rationalize it.  I thought perhaps it was an
airplane headlight...it was so big and bright, heading
directly towards me.  It was approaching West Palm
Beach from the (Atlantic) ocean at about 3,000 to
5,000 feet.  But it didn't change course or move at all.
The clouds obscured it, and minutes later, it was gone."
     Thinking no more of it, Kathy went back to bed.
Later on Sunday, however, she received a phone call
from some friends living in Hobe Sound, Fla. (population
11,507) on Route 1 about 20 miles (32 kilometers)
north of North Palm Beach.  "And they had seen the
same thing--a large bright light in the sky which they
viewed for a half hour, from 5 a.m. to 5:30 a.m."
(Email Interview)

GLOWING UFO SIGHTED IN
FORT WORTH, TEXAS

     On Saturday, March 28, 1998, at 11 p.m., Mike H.,
a 20-year veteran of the U.S. Air Force, and his son,
Charlie, 17 "were driving on Texas Highway 287 south
and approaching (Interstate Highway) I-30 out of downtown
Fort Worth (population 447,619) when we watched an
unusual object over the Trinity River area."
     "At first we thought it was just an airplane," Mike
reported.  "But then we noticed that the object had several
very intense rapidly-strobing green, red and white lights,
all three strobing at the same time, almost the way it
looks when a police car pulls someone over."
     "We noticed that there were no other lights visible
on the object during the strobing effect.  Then, suddenly,
the light turned to an all-green light, then all white.  This
lasted only about a second, then back to the strobing
effect again.  We did notice the object darting back and
forth rapidly.  Sometimes it appeared to jump from side
to side, causing the light to strobe here, then suddenly a
few feet (away) in another direction."
     "It also darted off about a half mile in one direction,
then suddenly dart up 1,000 feet (300 meters), then back
in the opposite direction.  Then it changed course, moving
at an incredible speed in an easterly direction...Then it
suddenly turned and went in the opposite direction."
     With Mike driving east on I-30, son Charlie kept the
object in view "for another five minutes" until they "lost
sight of it."  (Email Interview)

UFO SEEN APPROACHING A
JETLINER IN OKLAHOMA

     On Saturday, March 28, 1998, at 8:30 p.m., Hal A.
was outdoors near his home in McAlester, Oklahoma
(population 16,370), on Highway 270 about 128 miles
(205 kilometers) south of Oklahoma City, when he
spotted an unusual light in the sky.
     "I spotted a solid color orange-yellow light traveling
northeast," Hal reported.  "I watched it for about two
minutes.  I first thought it was a satellite, but at the same
time a commercial jet--it had (standard FAA) blinking red
and white strobe lights--was traveling southwest on the
same flight path."
     "The yellow object passed underneath the jet, and
was so close it lit up the bottom of the plane!"
     "I thought they were going to collide up to that
point.  The object traveled for another five minutes and
then blinked out.  Just disappeared."  (Many thanks to
Jim Hickman, vice president of Skywatch International,
for this report.)

SAUCER TOUCHES DOWN NEAR
SALISBURY, NORTH CAROLINA

     On Thursday, April 2, 1998, at 12:30 a.m., editor
Stefan Duncan of American UFO Newsletter (AUFON)
was staked out on the shore of High Rock Lake ten
miles (16 kilometers) east of Salisbury, North Carolina
(population 23,087).  Using a pair of 7X10 binoculars,
he scanned the night sky.
     Salisbury is on Highway 29 about 115 miles
(184 kilometers) west of Raleigh.
     Stefan then spotted "a light in the sky, not blinking,
of white, yellow, red...At times it appeared like it had
a line of light running across, like looking at Saturn
straight on with its rings."  (That is, a sphere with an
illuminated raised rim--J.T.)
     The Saturn-shaped UFO "rose vertically, hovered
and remained stationary for five minutes.  Then the
object began to descend straight down until it
disappeared behind the trees" two miles away.
     At 1 a.m., Stefan reported, "The object rose
vertically from the same position of the treeline about
two inches high (in the field of view) and remained
stationary.  It was the Saturn shape again.  It brightened
for about ten seconds, then resumed its regular shine."
     At 1:25 a.m., a smaller object "with the same
brightness" detached itself from the UFO.  "It flashed
brightly twice."  He described the scene as resembling
this:
                        o     0

     "They stayed in this position for about thirty seconds,
and then reformed into one object.  Then the object took
on the Saturn shape.  The light blacked out."  (For the
full story see, American UFO Newsletter #5 for 1998.
Many thanks to Stefan Duncan for this report.)

UFO FLYBY WITNESSED IN
VIRGINIA BEACH, VIRGINIA

     On Wednesday, March 11, 1998, at 12:25 p.m.,
MUFON member Dennis Hawley was standing in a parking
lot in Virginia Beach, Virginia (population 393,069) when
he spotted a UFO.
     "The UFO was flying very high and fast before
disappearing into the haze." Dennis reported, adding that
he "originally thought the object was a balloon, but realized
it was flying too fast and straight.  The UFO was first
observed to the southeast flying in from the Atlantic Ocean
about three miles away.  The object flew on a straight
course to the northwest."
     He described the UFO as a "metallic disc, glowing and
extremely fast" and estimated it to be "about the real size
of an airliner."
     Virginia Beach is on Highway 58 about 110 miles
(176 kilometers) southeast of Richmond, the state capital.
(See Filer's Files #13 for 1998.  Many thanks to Dennis
Hawley, George A. Filer and Rick Atristain, Virginia
state MUFON director, for this report.)

COUPLE SIGHTS TRIANGULAR
UFO IN CENTRAL MICHIGAN

     On Thursday, March 26, 1998, at 9:15 p.m., Kenneth
and Katarina M. "were enjoying the clear evening" at
their home in Brighton, Michigan (population 5,686).
a town on Interstate Highway I-23 about 30 miles
(48 kilometers) west of Detroit.
     "Suddenly, we noticed something unusual coming
from the north," Katarina reported.  "An object passed
over our heads in a straight-line direction.  The object
had a V-shape with real bright white-yellowish lights
underneath.  We watched it for about four seconds
until it passed behind our house.  The object made no
sound at all."  (Many thanks to Tim Hagemeister of
NACOMM for this report.)

UFOs SEEN FREQUENTLY IN
EAST KILBRIDE, SCOTLAND

     East Kilbride is fast becoming the Gulf Breeze
of Scotland.  UFOs have been reported daily there
during the past two weeks.
     According to the East Kilbride News, "Dozens
of residents have reported strange objects, including
a pancake-shaped flying saucer, hovering above the
town."
     "David Cornes, 59, of Murray spotted three military
jets chasing a flashing UFO the evening of January 25,"
1998.
     On Thursday, March 26, 1998, driving instructor
Brenda Hughie, 39, of Greenhills was giving a road
lesson to Tricia McLean, 46, on Strathaven Road.
when "a flashing object crossed the sky."
     "The dazzling light" startled Brenda, and she "got out
of her grey Vauxhall Corsa for a better look."
     "'I don't believe in UFOs, but afterwards I felt dizzy
and weak,'" she reported, "'When I got home, the whole
room was spinning.  Everyone thinks I am crazy.  They
don't believe me!'"
     Whitehills resident Tricia McLean reported, "I saw
six flashing lights in the sky.  Two were brighter and
went in different directions.  Brenda watched it out the
windscreen (windshield) first, and then I stopped the car."
     East Kilbride is 30 miles (48 kilometers) southeast
of Glasgow, Scotland's largest city.
(See the East Kilbride News for March 27, 1998,
"It's An L of a UFO" by Susie Kelly.  Many thanks to
Dave Ledger for this report.)

UFO VIDEOTAPED HOVERING
OVER A BEACH IN BRAZIL

     On Saturday, March 28, 1998, hundreds of people
relaxing on the beach at Praia do Jose Menino in
the seaport city of Santos were startled when an OVNI
(Portuguese acronym for UFO) suddenly appeared
offshore.
     Santos is in southern Brazil, about 120 kilometers
(72 miles) southeast of Sao Paulo.
     As the UFO hovered over Ilha da Urubuquecaba, an
offshore island, Valentim do Nascimento Junior picked
up his videocam and began shooting footage.  The UFO
was described as "a disc-shaped object covered with a
luminosity in the colors yellow, green and blue."
     Nascimento videotaped the UFO for 40 minutes as
the beachgoers watched it hover.  Then, "the light
flickering strangely," the UFO zipped away over the
horizon.
     Wallacy Albino, director-general of Grupo de
Estudos Ufologicos do Guaruja, a Brazilian UFO group,
has studied the Nascimento video.  He said that at
one point "a smaller light left the OVNI, circulated in
the sky and then returned to the object."  (See the
Brazilian newspaper Gazeta de Limeira for March 30,
1998, "OVNI e Filmado por 40 Minutos na Praia
de Jose Menino."  Muito obrigado a Pedro Cunha
por eso caso.)

CIGAR-SHAPED UFO SEEN NEAR
CHRISTCHURCH, NEW ZEALAND

     Three people witnessed a cigar-shaped UFO in the
sky over Bexley, just north of Christchurch, South Island,
in New Zealand on Monday, March 30, 1998.
     At 8:30 p.m., Edith Perkins saw what she called
"a capsule or cigar-shaped object at first...silver-whitish
body, darker grey forked tail."
     "At the time I was doing some chores in our backyard,"
she reported, "We live by the coastal line of New Brighton.
NaturallyI looked up and I observed, still overhead, the
silver-whitish object coming.  I was facing west.  The
rounded edges, front and back, of the object called my
attention.  Its size appeared to be about 10 centimeters
(five inches) long (if held at arm's length--J.T.)."  She
estimated its altitude to be 30,000 feet but "was puzzled
that there was no trail behind it."
     Edith went to fetch a pair of 7X35 binoculars.  She
was soon joined by her husband and a home-care nurse.
As they watched, "suddenly a very bright light covered
the object.  It did not happen as a flash of light.  It had a
beginning" and at the end of the light burst, "I was seeing
a different rear on the craft, a forked end to it, the colour
of it was dark grey."
     Another burst of light occurred, "and the object
presented a rim, all around the craft, with either
intermittent colour lights on the rim or a rotating rim."
She described the lights as "reddish-orange tones."
The UFO flew out over Pegasus Bay, heading northeast.
(Many thanks to Ross Dowe and the Australia/
New Zealand 24-Hour UFO Hotline for this report.)

TWO NEW UFO SIGHTINGS
IN SOUTHEAST AUSTRALIA

     Two UFOs were reported Friday night, March 27,
1998, in southeastern Australia.
     At 7:30 p.m., people at Lake Corangamite in
Victoria state, 192 kilometers (120 miles) west of
Melbourne, reported "sighting a large and bright
orange fireball cross the whole sky."  They described
it as "a large meteor with a long tail."
     At 8:10 p.m., in Batemans Bay, New South Wales,
a shore town 256 kilometers (160 miles) south of Sydney,
witnesses saw "two orange lights with odd square or
rectangular tails follow each other.  They headed
southeast south from the northeast.  The illuminations
were traveling too slow to be satellites and appeared to
be in the atmosphere."  (Many thanks to Ross Dowe and
the Australia/New Zealand 24-Hour UFO Hotline for
these reports.)

THREE SILVER SPHERE UFOs
SPOTTED IN ONTARIO

     On Saturday, March 28, 1998, at 7:09 p.m., Amy
Hill was driving on Route 401 near Oshawa, Ontario,
Canada (population 129,344) when she spotted
three spherical, silvery UFOs in the night sky.
     "My husband and I were driving westward on the 401,"
Amy reported, "We watched three circular objects.
They were almost clear-looking whitish balls.  They moved
in a circular pattern and would come and join in the center,
then move out, go around in a circle, and then repeat the
same"  maneuver.  "We pulled over to watch."
     Oshawa is 30 miles (50 kilometers) northeast
of Toronto.  (Many thanks to Kenneth Young of T.A.S.K.
for this report.)

from the UFO Files...

1485: CICERO'S DAUGHTER

    or "Who Left the Light On?"

     In April 1485, workmen quarrying for marble near
the old Appian Way in Rome, Italy made a strange
discovery.  They broke into an underground chamber
with "walls of smooth stone" that was "illuminated by
a bright lampada (lamp) cool to the touch."
     They also discovered the body of a black-haired
teenaged girl in unfamiliar clothing.
     Among those who visited the mysterious crypt was
Bartolomeo Fonte, a Renaissance artist from Firenze
(Florence).  He described the find in a letter to his
friend, Francesco Sassetti.
     "They discovered there a marble sarcophagus.
On opening it they found a body on its back covered
by a substance two inches thick, greasy and perfumed.
The oforous crust was removed beginning at the head,
there appeared to them a face of such limpid paleness
it seemed as if the young lady had been buried that
day.  Her long black hair still hung from her skull,
parted and knotted to suit a young girl and fastened
in a little net of silk and gold."
     Some people thought she was Tullia, daughter of
the Roman writer/statesman Marcus Tullius Cicero.
Tullia married Cornelius Dolabella in 47 B.C. and dropped
out of the history books.
    Others were not so sure, however.  Ponte wrote,
"Tiny ears, low forehead, black eyelashes, finally
eyes of singular shape, under whose eyelids the cornea
still appeared.  Even the nostrils were still intact and so
soft as to vibrate at the simple touch of a finger.  Her red
lips half-closed, small and white teeth, her scarlet tongue
near the palate.  Her cheeks, tongue, neck seemed to
palpitate.  Her arms hung down intact from her shoulders
so that you wished you could have moved them.  Her
nails still adhered firmly to her long, outstretched hands,
also if you had tried, you would not have succeeded in
detaching them.  Her breasts, stomach and womb were,
on the contrary, compressed at one side and, after the
removal of the aromatic crust, they decomposed.  Her
back, sides and buttocks instead had conserved their
contours and marvelous shapes, just like her thighs
and legs, which in life had presented even greater
prizes than her face."
     "In short, this must have concerned the most
beautiful young woman of noble family during the period
when Rome was at its greatest splendor.  However,
the majestic monument under the crypt had been
destroyed many centuries or so ago, without there
remaining even an inscription.  Also the sarcophagus
did not bear any sign.  We know neither the name of
the young woman nor her origin nor her age."
     The discovery also upset a lot of people, notably
Pope Innocent VIII.  He was troubled by the implications
of the "aromatic crust," some sort of ancient preservative
that completely stymied decomposition.  Even worse
was the mysterious lamp "cool to the touch" that had
been burning for at least 1,400 years.
     The pope ordered the Capitoline Hill crypt sealed
and had "Tullia" quietly reburied in an Italian convent.
     As a result, today all that remains of "Tullia" is the
charcoal sketch of her Bartolomeo Fonte drew in that
mysterious vault five hundred years ago.  (See the
article "Il Franciulla e La Lampada" in Il Giornale del
Misteri, Number 7, Autumn 1971, by Mara Calabri,
Corrado Tedeschi Editore, Firenze, Italy.  Reprinted
in GODS AND SPACEMEN IN GREECE AND ROME
by W. Raymond Drake, Signet Books, New American
Library, New York, N.Y. 1976, page 174.)
(Editor's Comment: I sometimes wonder if "Tullia"
might be a dead princess from the lost civilization of
Saturnia.  The mysterious crypt was found on the
Capitoline Hill in Rome.  Roman author Marcus
Terrentius Varro, in his book DE LINGUA LATINA,
writes, "This hill was previously called the Saturnian
Hill, we are informed by the writers, and from this
Latium has been called the Saturnian Land...It is
recorded that on this hill was an old town named
Saturnia.  Even now (That is, in 50 B.C., when the
real Tullia was still a schoolgirl--J.T.) there remain
evidences of it; that there is a temple of Saturn by
the passage leading to the hill; that there is a
Saturnian gate, which Junius writes of as there,
which they now call Pondana, that behind the temple
of Saturn in the lawns for the buildings of private
persons, the back walls are mentioned as the
Saturnian Wells.")

     Today is the birthday of Judith Ann Resnick,
one of the seven astronauts who died in the explosion
of the space shuttle Challenger January 28, 1986.
Judy was born on April 5, 1949.

     We'll be back next week with more saucer news
from "the paper that goes home--UFO ROUNDUP."
See you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1998 by Masinaigan
Productions, all rights reserved.  Readers may post
items from UFO ROUNDUP on their websites and in
newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter
and its editor by name and list the date of issue in





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 5

                   George Andersen Contact Address Needed

From: "AlexField" <alex@abcfield.force9.co.uk> [Ben Field]
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 22:39:44 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 18:07:59 -0400
Subject: George Andersen Contact Address Needed


I am looking for a contact address or a phone number for the
famous psychic George Andersen of Long Island, New York. I saw
him appear in the Australian series 'Beyond Belief'. He is a
medium, who communicates with the spirits of the deceased and
conveys the information to their relatives and friends.I would
really appreciate your assistance with this matter.

Thank you in advance.

Please Email me with any information.

Thankyou.

Ben






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                      Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 13:59:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 18:01:24 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"
>Date: Sat, 04 Apr 98 11:40:08 PST

>> Most of us in ufology are aware of prophet Ezekiel's vision of
>> what many accept to be a detailed and incredible close encounter
>> with a UFO and a radiant being (God) from within it.
>> Unfortunately we remember the description of the UFO itself but
>> do not recall the prophetic message this radiant being gave to
>> Ezekiel, who with the rest of the Jews were in captivity in
>> Babylon at the time (Ezekiel 4:3-6).

>Any claim that Ezekiel encountered what we today would call a UFO
>is grossly speculative.  Serious biblical scholars have more
>compelling interpretations, based on prophetic and visionary
>traditions contemporary to Ezekiel.  Before flying into the wild
>blue with sweeping von Daniken-like speculations, speculators
>ought to acquaint themselves with the real, as opposed to the
>pseudo, scholarship on this issue.

I have a problem with the use of the words:  "based on prophetic
and visionary traditions contemporary to Ezekiel." "Traditions"
being the key word.

We are dealing with a contemporary interpretation of what could
very well be a long standing phenomena. Phenomena, may not be an
appropriate word here. Technology is more appropriate, in my
opinion.

Just because there appears to have been a "technological dark
ages," which covered a span of several thousand years, does not
in the least mean that some earlier civilization could not have
developed the very things, which Ezekiel's visions try to portray
in non-technical terms.

Are we so cynical that we, supposedly on the verge of possibly
the greatest technical advances in the recent history of mankind,
close our eyes to the ancient myths and legends which purport to
support the very advances which we are achieving today?

Why do we, who know that history is not necessarily portrayed in
its correctness, by modern scholars, so readily defend their
deceitfulness with mankind, just to protect their "belief"
patterns, and thus deprive mankind of their ancient heritage and
promote their self induced ideology of human greatness, in this
period.

"Man is the at the greatest point of technology in his entire
history." What rubbish!  It is this attitude which has kept the
entire world from accessing Mt. Ararat, in Turkey to check on the
validity of the "Ark" or the Egyptian Archeologists/Government
preventing American Archeologists from opening the newly found
underground chambers beneath the Sphinx.

All of this in the name of "Traditional history."

It is nothing more than man's ego. Living in the "greatness of
the past," but yet afraid to discover that those who built those
great stone monuments may very well have had a technological
civilization or connection to one, and lost it. If this is the
case, then they would rather deprive their own people of that
knowledge, in order to maintain their own ruse of self
importance.

Human ego...what a joke. A Yoke around the neck of the
enlightened. <sigh>

>Moreover, as Eddie Bullard has shown (and my own independent
>historical investigations confirm), there is no good evidence of
>a modern UFO phenomenon before the very early 1800s or very late
>1700s.  For particulars, see Bullard's long essay "Anomalous
>Aerial Phenomena Before 1800" in my The Emergence of a Phenomenon
>(1992).

"...there is no good evidence of a modern UFO phenomenon before
the very early 1800s or very late 1700s." So, you attribute the
"modern" age of ufology to extend back into the 17 and 1800's?
To what do you attribute the "ancient" phenomena, say as recorded
in the ancient "Vedas," or the "Book of Dyzan?" Do you just kiss
that off as ancient mythologies, i.e., wild imaginations?  I
think not.  To do so is to assume the role I have ascribed to the
modern scholars and archeologists. The blind leading the blind
if you will.

>> Another well known UFO sighting in the Bible occurred at
>> time of Jesus' birth (The Star of Bethlehem).  Although scholars
>> have long speculated on the exact date of this UFO sighting, Grant
>> also shows that the Bible itself answers this - the Feast of
>> Tabernacles, 1 B.C. (see Appendix B of Grant Jeffrey's book).

>"UFO sighting?"  Based on what evidence?  The Star of Bethlehem
>has been more plausibly explained as a conjunction of planets.

>Jerry Clark

I guess it is easy to dismiss some things as "plausible" because
they better fit our comfortable ideology, Jerry.

Yet, we have seen conjunction of planets in recent times, yet, at
no time have I observed these conjunct stars appear to move
from horizon to horizon on a daily basis, leading me to a
definite destination, before they come to a complete standstill
and remain there for an undetermined length of time.

Have you noticed that once the star has guided its observers to
the point in Bethlehem, it is not mentioned any further? Why is
that? IF this is a conjunction of planets, and "observed" by
"shepherds," and "followed" by "wise men, or Maji" from the East,
then why would they so readily, as well as the writers of the
Book of Mathew, chapter 2, vs. 1 - 12, and Luke 2, vs. 1 -20,
just forget about the "Star" once they had reached their goal?

A person does not have to be a "Conservative" anything to Know
Bibical history. All one needs to do is "study," with an "open
mind."

Apparently there is quite an aversion to anything, historical,
which smacks of "religious" ideology.  Must anything from
Scriptural references always be construed as "religious"?

Religion is a man made system based on the teachings or
philosophies of the person after whom it is named by it's
followers. It is not necessarily the same as Scriptural History.
Yet, Scriptures, or the written word of history can be
interpreted and applied as one see's fit, according to one's
needs.

Just a few thoughts, Jerry.

Take care.

REgards, Mike

 The fastest way to respond to this message is through the ICQ Network. A
message   sent  this way will go directly to my screen.
 If you have ICQ you can message me at ICQ#:7508455.
 If you don't have ICQ you can page me through:  My Personal Communication
Center:   http://wwp.mirabilis.com/7508455 (go there and try it!)
 Or you can send me a regular e-mail to my EmailExpress address:
7508455@pager.mirabilis.com.
 Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
 Include your ICQ details in YOUR e-mail signature:
http://www.icq.com/emailsig.html.
 My BBS Telephone Number is: (502) 683-3026
 My Fax Number is: (502) 686-7394
 My Home Telephone Number is: (502) 683-6811
 Michael Christol ----------------------------------------------------






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 5

                   Re: UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing?

From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.ALPcom.it>
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 23:27:39 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 18:05:52 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing?

>From: XianneKei <XianneKei@aol.com> [Rebecca]
>Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 10:31:51 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing?

>>Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 09:28:55 +0200
>>From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.ALPcom.it>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing?
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>> A former director of the Energetics Department of the University
>>  of Pisa, he has long been a good friend of Corrado Malanga,
>>  researcher in Chemical Sciences at that same university and a
>>  long-time ufologist.

>What is it about this University of Pisa? Is it a good one?

Apart from any consideration about the Italian universities, the
University of Pisa is as good as any other state University her
in Italy (we've got at least one state university in nearly every
region, plus some private ones).

It's unfortunate (though somehow meaningful) that Derrel Sims
once described Corrado Malanga as belonging to the "University of
Pizza".

>There
>seem to be a lot "scientists" there who proclaim all manner of
>UFO knowledge.

No, Rebecca: contrary to your impression, there are not lots of
scientists there proclaiming UFO knowledge. Only some, as there
are elsewhere.

Please don't believe all Pisa professors are ET believers:
Corrado Malanga has long been admitting he has never been very
well appreciated by his colleagues there for his own UFO
involvement.

Regards


Edoardo Russo                             Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici
CISU, Casella postale 82, 10100 Torino - tel 011-3290279 - fax 011-545033
http://www.arpnet.it/~ufo          e-mail: edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 5

                      Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 98 18:41:51 PDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 20:35:27 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"


> Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 13:59:43 -0500
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> >From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"
> >Date: Sat, 04 Apr 98 11:40:08 PST

> >> Most of us in ufology are aware of prophet Ezekiel's vision of


> >> what many accept to be a detailed and incredible close encounter
> >> with a UFO and a radiant being (God) from within it.
> >> Unfortunately we remember the description of the UFO itself but
> >> do not recall the prophetic message this radiant being gave to
> >> Ezekiel, who with the rest of the Jews were in captivity in
> >> Babylon at the time (Ezekiel 4:3-6).

> >Any claim that Ezekiel encountered what we today would call a UFO
> >is grossly speculative.  Serious biblical scholars have more
> >compelling interpretations, based on prophetic and visionary
> >traditions contemporary to Ezekiel.  Before flying into the wild
> >blue with sweeping von Daniken-like speculations, speculators
> >ought to acquaint themselves with the real, as opposed to the
> >pseudo, scholarship on this issue.

> I have a problem with the use of the words:  "based on prophetic
> and visionary traditions contemporary to Ezekiel." "Traditions"
> being the key word.

> We are dealing with a contemporary interpretation of what could
> very well be a long standing phenomena. Phenomena, may not be an
> appropriate word here. Technology is more appropriate, in my
> opinion.

<snipped for brevity Moderator>

Mike,

With all due respect, it seems pretty apparent that you haven't
done much reading in the relevant scholarship.  Sounds to me as
if you're getting your ideas from Von Daniken and his ilk.
Educate yourself in what those scholars you so readily dismiss
(and insult) without knowing much about, and I think you'll speak
with more authority.

It's also clear you haven't read Bullard's piece, either.

Jerry Clark







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                   Re: UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing?

From: "Kenneth J. Becker" <kjbecker@cais.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 18:53:47 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 20:44:07 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs observed APOLLO Moon landing?

Those following this thread might find the old Skywatch web
site to be of interest:

http://www.wic.net/colonel/index6.htm


Respectfully,

Ken Becker





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   Apr > Apr 6

                   Dr. Mark J. Carlotto to discuss Cydonia

From: "Yvonne Hedenland" <vonni_h@email.msn.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 19:48:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 00:16:00 -0400
Subject: Dr. Mark J. Carlotto to discuss Cydonia


Dr. Mark Carlotto will be joining the UFO Forum
for a live chat on Tuesday, April 7th at 6pm, PT.
to discuss Cydonia,  We hope to see you there!
The chat is available at http://forums.msn.com/ufo

Also available is the new audio interview
discussing what the public can expect in
the coming weeks.

If you are unable to attend this chat, but you have
a question you wish to ask of our guest, please
email your question to watchfire_fm@msn.com
Your question will be asked, and the answer
can be found by reading our chat transcripts
at:  http://forums.msn.com/UFO

The Briefing Room chat can be accessed by any IRC
client. The chat server name is publicchat.msn.com
and the room or channel name is #briefing.






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                     Re: 'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real

From: natural.state@erols.com [Melanie Mecca]
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 22:56:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 00:24:27 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real


> Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 22:09:27 -0800
> From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Vatican Says ET Contacts Real

> Monsignor Corrado Balducci, a Vatican theologian insider close to
> the Pope has gone on national Italian television five times in
> recent months to proclaim that extraterrestrial contact is a real
> phenomenon.
>
> The prelate announced that the Vatican is receiving much
> information about extraterrestrials and their contacts with
> humans from its Nuncios (embassies) in various countries, such as
> Mexico, Chile and Venezuela. Monsignor Balducci said that he is
> on a Vatican commission looking into extraterrestrial encounters,
> and how to cope with the emerging general realization of
> extraterrestrial contact.

> Balducci provided the Catholic Church's analysis of
> extraterrestrials, emphasizing that extraterrestrial encounters
> "are NOT demonic, they are NOT due to psychological impairment,
> they are NOT a case of entity attachment, but these encounters
> deserve to be studied carefully."

Has anyone verified that these TV shows did in fact occur?
Preferably an Italian poster who has seen them?  The implications
of this one are tremendous/enormous/amazing/pick an adjective -
my jaw's hangin' open, fer sure.

The Pope came to Washington DC in (1978? 1979? 1980?) - one of
those years.  I went down to catch his act - punctuating the
speech at intervals, he'd raise both arms above his head, palms
facing out (one hand, Buddhist iconography, two hands, definitely
Western), looked just like BB King revving up the crowd when BB
would shout "Everybody say YEAH!!!!"  Point is, the crowd went
nuts every time.  This dude has unparalleled power to influence
basic beliefs.

Do you think he's been abducted/implanted and is cozying up to
The Threat's scenario?  Maybe the greys have promised him the
"Lord of all the Universe" title, reptilians to exorcise, free
saucer flights to the pleasure planets, God knows what else, in
return for free advertising - ensuring that one large segment of
the populace is neutralized - not thinking about the visitors as
evil.  Speculation can be fun, let's have a ball here, eh?

Feel free to flame if it please thee - I'm a lapsed Catholic but
I feel entitled 'cause the Mother church still claims me as one
of its own. Meantime, I'm going to be looking up at the Arizona
skies next week hoping to catch a sight of those 'non-demonic,
non-psychological impaired-effect, non-entity-attached' UFOs.

AND - the Firesign Theatre's line applies, from the Pope to the
visitors - "Domini, Domini, Domini - You're all Catholics now!"
;)
Melanie Mecca





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                      Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

From: The Duke of Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith]
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 22:59:55 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 00:50:46 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"


The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments.

>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"
>Date: Sun, 05 Apr 98 12:05:57 PDT

Commenting on my submission that ufology is rife with belief,
such that beliefs are at issue rather than what he had earlier
called "logic and  evidence", Jerome wrote:

>Well, true, more or less, I guess, but also not entirely so.
>"Belief" used in contexts such as the above is sometimes abused
>in ufological polemic, where the real subtext is: "What I know
>I know, and what you think you know you only believe."

Well, true, more or less, I guess, but also not entirely so. It
seems to me that a close cousin of faith drives the approach of
many a ufologist to both evidence & logic. Look at MJ-12 et seq.,
"Roswell" in general,
aliens-invented-transistors,-fiber-optics-and-Scary-Spice, and
especially abductology, where the "evidence" could point to alien
intervention only with the help of a prior belief: as each bit of
"evidence" has an alternative & somewhat less exotic explanation.
The subtext in all these instances is "I know what I believe but
I'm not about to admit it's a mere belief." It doesn't even get
as far as imagining an opposition.

Or, as a good friend of mine remarked: "Empirically unsupported
articles of faith have no business in a discussion group about
UFOs?  Then what the hell is left to talk about?"

>Religious matters are
>another question, as any good theologian would agree. [...]
>as far as I have been led to believe, this is not a list
>dealing with Bible prophecy.  If it is, let me off.

Well, many a good theologian would be a trifle startled at the
suggestion that evidence & logic are outwith their domain or
resources. However. The looming millennium has excited (and
resurrected) all kinds of strange equations of ufodom with
Biblical prophecy. The start of this thread was but a tiny sample
of that. Someone else nearby is maintaining UFOs are agents of
the devil, or some such. Someone else is asking us to believe
Billy Meier had his hands on the lost "Q" text, or its
equivalent, of the New Testament (which most inconveniently &
carelessly was later, er, misplaced - perhaps in a London railway
terminus? - but we'll overlook that unfortunate lapse, for now).
A few days ago we were being offered Joseph Smith as an abductee.
O, and let's not forget this Pope-meets-the-aliens drollery -"the
Academy of Clinical Close Encounter Therapists", indeed, guffaw.
That's just on this List.

This kind of stuff is not going to go away - for a few years, at
least. It is part of ufology as we know it. We've just seen how
hokey it can be - by applying reason & logic to the "evidence".
If reasonable people walk away from this kind of thing, who will
speak for reason & logic? Rabbi Finkelstein, who has threatened
to counter the next bit of non-scholarship on the God front that
we get around here, cannot be everywhere at once. (As you see, he
is not here now.)

I am reminded of Lionel Trilling's words to the effect that if we
try to separate literature and politics, we will find that
literature has become politics, and of a kind we will not like.

And it's not just Biblical prophecy that's at issue. Isn't "The
Threat" a form of prophecy? And is it any better, as such, than
back-calculations & projections based on Biblical texts or the
quatrains of Nostradamus? Lord, it even manages to hint that the
millennium may be a significant date in ufology.

>Except for these cavils, I loved your posting, Duke.

Thankyou. But Greg's ("il miglior fabbro") was the more thorough
job.

best wishes
Prosimian D. Methusaleh
Forever Young






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                       Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 07:00:23 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 09:21:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images

>Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 17:54:00 -0600
>From: Paul Reischmann <preischmann@beckman.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara

>I agree with you, but I must point out that I have not researched
>the subject to any great depth.

>'Natural Formation' is the easiest position to take since we have
>nothing to lose no matter how it turns out.  If Cydonia is
>nothing but an eroded rock, well, we will appear to have known
>this all along.  If it turns out to be an ancient structure,
>everyone will be so excited about it, who will remember or care
>about what we said! :-)
>
>Regards,
>
>Paul

Paul,

Yes.  I am known for taking the easy way out!

Bob







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                     Re: 'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real

From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com> [Robert Gates]
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 23:02:24 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 09:07:15 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real


>  Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 22:09:27 -0800
>  From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
>  To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>  Subject: Vatican Says ET Contacts Real

>  This is from http://www.sightings.com

>  Vatican Admits On National
>  TV That ET Contact IS REAL
>  From Ross Dowe
>  4-4-98


>  Monsignor Corrado Balducci, a Vatican theologian insider close to
>  the Pope has gone on national Italian television five times in
>  recent months to proclaim that extraterrestrial contact is a real
>  phenomenon.

I would suggest that its further evidence of another Internet
tale that has gained legs and been widely dissiminated.  Many
people are prone to adopt the position that of "Well, I saw it on
such and such web site so its absolute fact," or "Well, this
email was posted far and wide so it must be true."

Other previously wide spread Internet tales that also gained legs.

Fossilize life in Mars rock discovery announced by NASA in August
of 96. This according to all the rumor mongering was the "big
precurssor" to the big ET/UFO reality announcement BEFORE the
election.  Didn't happen.

Lee Shargel and his tale from "insider space scientists" who
maintained that we had been in contact with ET and ET radio waves
would bathe the entire  planet earth on Jan 23 1997.  Didn't
Happen.

Yellowbook/Redbook/10,000 year history of ET on the earth/Christ
was an ET blah blah. Everything was leading up to mass landings
at White Sands on April 24th 1997 which would blow the lid off
the coverup. Didn't Happen.

Another "mass landings" story that "had already happened on March
13th 1997." Didn't happen.

Chuck Shramek and his "companion object following hale Bopp" tale,  which he  la
ter disowned to the press. Shortly after Shramek's announcement, the Remote View
ing community  allegedly "discovered" the companion object and gave us lurid det
ails about this alleged space ship, blah blah blah. The RVers seemed to be just
as accurate as Shramek.

Remote Viewers claimed that when they "RVed" as the earth passed
through the Hale Bopp debris, that some kind of microbe would get
through and kill  all the green plant life on earth. Didn't
happen.

Remote Viewers also claimed that a "colony of Martians" was
living in  some kind of  underground hive in New Mexico; further
that they would come  out and show their existance to the world.
Never happened.

Lets wait to see what develops before we conclude that this tale
is truthful.

Cheers,
Robert







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                   Reminder - UFO show at 8 tonight on UPN

From: UFO*BC <pengilly@axionet.com> [Dave Pengilly]
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 02:15:59 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 09:13:26 -0400
Subject: Reminder - UFO show at 8 tonight on UPN


Remarkable UFO sightings that many believe are a foreboding
threat to global safety, plus exclusive, vivid footage of a UFO
witnessed during the day over Mexico City, are presented in a
compelling one hour special, "Danger In Our Skies: The New UFO
Threat," airing MONDAY, APRIL 6 (8:00-9:00 P.M., ET/PT).

Thank you,
Dave Pengilly,
UFO*BC






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                       Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 06:40:57 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 09:21:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images


>Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 07:31:38 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara


>Bob,

>Have you read all of the work done on Cydonia by the independent
>researchers?  Some of the most impressive evidence for the
>artificial hypothesis is found in the mound geometry. Have you
>read the reports done on that? This was done by very competent
>scientists. Dr. Horace Crater was one and Dr. James Strange was
>the other. Do you think these gentleman don't know what they're
>talking about? The chance of this geometric pattern being random
>are very high.

>How can you make such a statement like 100% natural when you
>personally haven't published any scientific work on the matter or
>have you? Even the independent scientists have said that they
>believe the objects MAY be artificial but only hi-res photos and
>a visit to Mars will settle the issue. They are open to either
>hypothesis. You seem bent towards the natural hypothesis.

>I don't know what the objects are and I'm waiting to see better
>photos before I give any opinions.

>Joe in Tampa

Joe,

I simply think they are natural features.  I am not claiming
expertise, other than spending a lot of time in the deserts of
the USA and seeing a lot of artificial looking things that I know
are natural formations.

I'm not saying, as some are, that it is a waste of time to go and
take a good look and see if we can tell.  I think the issue needs
to be resolved.  I do think that there was life on mars in the
distant past, but whether that life got much beyond simple
creatures is something that seems questionable.

I am very serious in saying that I would like to be proved wrong
on this one.

Bob







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                 Re: Reminder - UFO show at 8 tonight on UPN

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:47:42 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 00:49:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Reminder - UFO show at 8 tonight on UPN

> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 02:15:59 -0700 (PDT)
> From: UFO*BC <pengilly@axionet.com> [Dave Pengilly]
> To: UFO*BC Mail List <sovot@sunshine.net>
> Subject:  UFO show at 8 tonight on UPN

> Remarkable UFO sightings that many believe are a foreboding
> threat to global safety, plus exclusive, vivid footage of a UFO
> witnessed during the day over Mexico City, are presented in a
> compelling one hour special, "Danger In Our Skies: The New UFO
> Threat," airing MONDAY, APRIL 6 (8:00-9:00 P.M., ET/PT).

Maybe, but the latest issue of the Fortean Times demolishes the
credibility of Jaime Maussan and the Elders' promotion of the
Mexican wave of the last several years. Although the Mexican
sightings have been heralded as some of the best cases of the
century, FT researchers found they fell apart under
investigation.

And, considering that the Elders sold it to UPN makes it all the
more suspicious, considering UPN's record of accurate, objective
UFO documentaries (or lack thereof).

As always, I reserve judgement until more facts are presented.


--
Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca
(and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca)
University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada





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                      Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 98 09:56:34 PDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 00:33:35 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"


> Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 22:59:55 -0400
> From: The Duke of Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith]
> Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments.

> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> >From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"
> >Date: Sun, 05 Apr 98 12:05:57 PDT

> Commenting on my submission that ufology is rife with belief,
> such that beliefs are at issue rather than what he had earlier
> called "logic and  evidence", Jerome wrote:

> >Well, true, more or less, I guess, but also not entirely so.
> >"Belief" used in contexts such as the above is sometimes abused
> >in ufological polemic, where the real subtext is: "What I know
> >I know, and what you think you know you only believe."

> Well, true, more or less, I guess, but also not entirely so. It
> seems to me that a close cousin of faith drives the approach of
> many a ufologist to both evidence & logic. Look at MJ-12 et seq.,
> "Roswell" in general,
> aliens-invented-transistors,-fiber-optics-and-Scary-Spice, and
> especially abductology, where the "evidence" could point to alien
> intervention only with the help of a prior belief: as each bit of
> "evidence" has an alternative & somewhat less exotic explanation.
> The subtext in all these instances is "I know what I believe but
> I'm not about to admit it's a mere belief." It doesn't even get
> as far as imagining an opposition.

I fear the good Duke has demonstrated exactly my point: the abuse
of the word "belief" in UFO polemic.  He rejects the abduction
phenomenon as evidence of an external intelligence; therefore
anybody who feels otherwise is merely deluded by "belief,"  here
defined, evidently, as any point of view the Duke doesn't like.
Same for Roswell.  And I am sure this applies to  just about any
other issue on which others are foolish enough to dissent from
the Duke.  And yes, you can always point to silly stuff written
about any of the above; after all, the Duke himself vigorously
supports unfettered free expression here.

But at the best level (the only level, one should think, that
counts in the end), as in IUR, JUFOS, and JSE (in whose current
issue Roswell is intelligently debated), many so far unresolved
issues are examined in ways that only the most determined
polemicist would deem intellectually illegitimate or beyond the
rational pale. The abduction phenomenon, for example, remains
puzzling and extraordinarily complex, resistant to simplistic
explanation of any sort,  with reasonable people coming down on
different sides; see, for example, the excellent discussion in
the MITconference volume, or the splendid papers JUFOS has
published on the controversy, or Bullard's seminal UFO
Abductions: The Measure of a Mystery.

Cheers,

Jerry Clark






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             Life In A World Frozen In Time For 30 Million Year

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:25:38 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 00:29:00 -0400
Subject: Life In A World Frozen In Time For 30 Million Year

From: The Guardian via The Nando Times:

http://www.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/health/040698/health7_20580_noframes.html

*******


A world frozen in time for 30 million years


Copyright =A91998 Nando.net
Copyright =A91998 Scripps Howard


LONDON (April 6, 1998 00:37 a.m. EDT http://www.nando.net) --
Scientists are poised to explore a mysterious lost world more than two
miles below Antarctica. A huge lake, insulated by millions of years of
ice, could hold living creatures that inhabited the planet more than 30
million years ago.

British, French, German, Russian and American scientists met in St.
Petersburg last week to agree on what will, in effect, be a landing on
another planet: the painstaking venture into a body of water the size
of Lake Ontario, more than 12,000 feet under the icecap at the Russian
base of Vostok.

The lake was "mapped" by space-based and ground-based instruments in
1996, and the Russians have penetrated to within 150 yards of the
surface of the water. But then the drilling had to stop.

The researchers face a dilemma. They have to find a way to explore the
mysterious world of Lake Vostok without contaminating it with life from
the surface.

They know that there will be forms of life down there: Russian and
American microbiologists have been examining microbes in samples of ice
laid down 400,000 years ago.

"We've found some really bizarre things.-- things that we have never
seen before," said Richard Hoover of NASA. He and his Russian colleague
have given the microscopic creatures temporary nicknames, such as
Klingon, Mickey Mouse, Porpoise and Sphere. The discovery at such
depths raises the hope that even stranger things lie waiting to be
discovered under Vostok.

Dr Cynan Ellis-Evans of the British Antarctic Survey, one of the
experts at the St Petersburg meeting, said the researchers were likely
to use a hot-water lance to cut deeper into the ice. Then they plan to
lower a thermal probe, which will sterilize itself as it descends. The
ice will freeze again and close behind it. When the "cryobot" reaches
the water, it will release a "hydrobot" to begin sampling the chemistry
of the lake.

"It's a one way trip, isolating itself from microbes in the upper ice,"
he said. "We are expecting to find new things -- and yes, it is like
going to another planet. People who work on Martian environments and
the Jovian system all came along and said it had exactly the same feel."

Nobody knows why lakes should exist under the largest body of ice on
the planet. Antarctica was once a mild, forested landscape: even now,
geologists are still discovering fossil ferns and carnivorous dinosaurs
in the polar mountains.

The glaciers began to close over the continent 40 million years ago.
Lake Vostok could be in a rift valley -- a deep fissure in the
continent's crust -- and if it is, the huge depth of sediment below the
water could be a "time capsule" of the planet's history.

Some geologists argue that there could be some form of volcanic heat
deep providing the energy for unusual forms of life.

But there are other hypotheses: for instance, ice may have melted to
form the lake as it sheared over the bedrock.

"I'm more of the feeling that there wasn't a lake to start with: that
one evolved in more recent times," said Dr. Ellis-Evans.

The voyage of discovery will take years. NASA scientists regard the
project as a rehearsal for the exploration of the ocean of Jupiter's
moon Europa, another mysterious body of water, trapped under miles of
ice.

Life depends on water, and Mars once had rivers but is now arid. U.S.
scientists want to launch an orbiter to explore Europa -- and then
devise a nuclear-powered probe to drive through the crust and into the
ocean beneath the surface.

They expect to learn valuable lessons from Lake Vostok. Other
researchers hope to learn a lot more about planet Earth.

Antarctica is 58 times as big as Britain, and more than 99 percent of
it is covered in thick ice -- but there could be hundreds of lakes
below the ice sheet.

"Every single one of them could be, potentially, of significance," said
Ellis-Evans.

"This is a whole new world opening up for us."


By TIM RADFORD, The Guardian

Copyright =A91998 Nando.net








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                       Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 11:29:35 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 00:39:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images

>Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 06:40:57 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara

>>Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 07:31:38 -0500
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara

>>Bob,

>>Have you read all of the work done on Cydonia by the independent
>>researchers?  Some of the most impressive evidence for the
>>artificial hypothesis is found in the mound geometry. Have you
>>read the reports done on that? This was done by very competent
>>scientists. Dr. Horace Crater was one and Dr. James Strange was
>>the other. Do you think these gentleman don't know what they're
>>talking about? The chance of this geometric pattern being random
>>are very high.

>>How can you make such a statement like 100% natural when you
>>personally haven't published any scientific work on the matter or
>>have you? Even the independent scientists have said that they
>>believe the objects MAY be artificial but only hi-res photos and
>>a visit to Mars will settle the issue. They are open to either
>>hypothesis. You seem bent towards the natural hypothesis.

>>I don't know what the objects are and I'm waiting to see better
>>photos before I give any opinions.

>>Joe in Tampa

Bob has already responded to this, but I wanted to add a couple
of thoughts.

While Bob is a photographer by trade, and not a scientist, I
think that an opinion regarding whether or not a formation looks
natural or not is valuable.  He, after all, has a trained eye and
looks at a scene in its entirety.  Any conclusions would have to
be accepted with his background in mind, and it should be
understood that any conclusion would be based on how it looks,
and not on a subset of data that has been derived through other
analysis.  In his message, I think that Bob was very clear that
he was only offerring this as an opinion.

Will the new Surveyor images help to clear up this mystery?
Perhaps.

Of course, IMHO, the issue for many people is more a religion
than a scientific examination.  If the images appear to show that
the "face" is a "natural" formation, there are those who would
criticize that they must have been "doctored" by NASA before they
were released.  Those who have a vested interest in this matter
will make every effort to fit the new data into their belief
system, and what doesn't fit will be judged irrelevent or
tainted.

I am very interested in what many scientists have to say about
the new images, and would be very pleased if they show an
artificial formation. However, I suspect that unless the images
are much more detailed than exected, this could serve to ignite a
broader debate.

In closing, I found an interesting synopsis of the history of
this story, and provide it for your information and review:


Cydonia (Face On Mars) - 23 Years Of Mystery
By Kenneth Green

Dimensions Of Face
Length 2.5 Kilometers
Width 2 Kilometers=A0
Height =A0400 Meters

Dimensions Of Pyramid
Length=A03 Kilometers
Height 500 Meters


Viking Orbiter - July 1976

NASA Picture Frame 35A72

Face was dismissed as a "trick of light and shadow" when the
first picture was taken.


1979 - Dipietro and Molenaan Are First To Study It Seriously

Vincent Dipietro and Gregory Molenaan were computer engineers
contracted with NASA and worked for Goddard Space Flight Center,
Maryland. They discovered the Pyramid which they named the D&M
Pyramid which stuck for good.

1980's - Richard Hoagland

Richard Hoagland who was responsible for the plaques for "any
alien life" that were on the Voyager spacecraft and others,
examined some pyramidal mounds to the southwest of the Face
called "The City" including "The Fort" with straight walls.

1986 - 1987 Dr. Mark Carlotto Used Another Method For
Examination

He used a method called shape-from-shading that disproved the
"trick of light and shadow" theory. He also said that "teeth"
were present in the mouth. Also that there are crossed
symmetrical lines on the forehead.

1988 - Erol Torun

He was (or still may be) a Geomorphologist and Cartographer for
the U.S.
Defense Mapping Agency in Washington D.C. He published a
cartographic and geometrical analysis of the D & M Pyramid and
says it is not like no natural mountain.

1995 - Proffessor McDaniel & Dr. Horace Crater

They are from University of Tennessee Space Institute. They
published a mathematical analysis of the small mounds (City)
including the Face to discount the random placing of the mounds.

Any of the above information was taken from Amateur Astronomy and
Earth Sciences in a March 1996 article, =A9 Copyright Malcom Smith.
1996.

My Conclusion

In 23 years, many people believe in UFOs, but not the Face on
Mars partly because Mars doesn't have an atmosphere like ours.
But most of them can say that it could have been created from a
very ancient civilization and that is something that still lasts
from it. Recently NASA reported that water was once on Mars
probably billions of years ago because of the new photos from
Mars Global Surveyor. This month in April, the same Surveyor is
going to attempt to take 3 pictures of Cydonia which will be much
more detailed than the one from Viking, 23 years ago. If by
chance it cannot, I'm sure it will attempt to do it again when
the right orbit for pictures is in place. These new pictures will
be on my web site as soon as they come out.


U F O    T I M E S
http://ufo-times.home.ml.org








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                                Why is it...?

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 20:32:27 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 00:51:34 -0400
Subject: Why is it...?

Hi Errol, Hi All

Why is when you tell people that there are a billion billion
stars in the universe they believe you?

Why is when you tell them the wetpaint they have to touch it to
make sure?

Why is when you tell people that you have seen a ufo they laugh?

---
        Life is but a dream, death is the only reality.
                       Sean Jones
          reply to--sean@tedric.demon.co.uk
Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm
        Research page --http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/






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                          Cydonia Images Available

From: matt@mail.ltlb.com, Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:00:23 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 00:52:25 -0400
Subject: Cydonia Images Available

The Cydonia images are availiable at:

http://mars.sgi.com/mgs/target/CYD1/index.html

Enjoy,

Matt





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                     Re: 'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real

From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net>
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:07:49 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 01:02:05 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real


> Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 22:09:27 -0800
> From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Vatican Says ET Contacts Real

> This is from http://www.sightings.com

> Vatican Admits On National
> TV That ET Contact IS REAL
> From Ross Dowe
> 4-4-98

> Monsignor Corrado Balducci, a Vatican theologian insider close to
> the Pope has gone on national Italian television five times in
> recent months to proclaim that extraterrestrial contact is a real
> phenomenon.

This story is curious enough to me that I decided to contact the
director of the Vatican Observatory in Arizona, forwarding him a
copy of the post, to see if I could get any reaction or leads
into the Vatican on this story.  I suspect the result will be one
of:

1. No response at all
2. A "No comment"
3. "You gotta be kidding" (phrased diplomatically or not)
4. "We are not the ones to contact"
   (with or without an alternative provided).
5. "Yep, its true" (well, bowl me over)

I'll forward any response I get on to the list.

By the way, I would suggest to others in the list, that if you
know anyone in Catholic Church hierarchy in a position to comment
on this, that you also forward inquiries on this post.  Surely
if we poke around enough, we can get a comment from someone.

-Brian Cuthbertson

PS. If anyone is interested, the Vatican Observatory's web page is:
    http://clavius.as.arizona.edu/vo/index.html






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                       New JPL Mars Face Images Online

From: ez073888@boris.ucdavis.edu, Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:04:33 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 01:07:52 -0400
Subject: New JPL Mars Face Images Online

and we have them a full mirror

http://area51.icom.net/moon/mars.html

or visit the main page at
http://area51.icom.net/

Early analysis shows that these 1m photos have proven the face to be
articial!  take a look..

Olav
BTW with a full mirror those pictures aren't going anywhere


Date: 6 Apr 1998 19:05:40 GMT
From: ez073888@boris.ucdavis.edu (Olav Phillips)
Subject: New JPL Mars Face Images Online!!
Message-ID: <6gb924$nq7$2@mark.ucdavis.edu>
Path:
news1.tele.dk!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!uninett.no!newscore.u
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y.ucla.edu!128.120.8.185!mark.ucdavis.edu.MISMATCH!news.ucdavis.edu!bori
s.ucdavis.edu!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Host: boris.ucdavis.edu








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                           Cydonia image available

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 16:32:17 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 01:13:27 -0400
Subject: Cydonia image available

Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:51:18 -0400
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
From: Larry Wharton <wharton@climate.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Cydonia image available

The Mars Observer image of the Cydonia area on Mars is now
available on:

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/target/CYD1/index.html

The face is clearly visable with higher resolution than the
previous image and it still is a perfect image of a face.  Also
now all sides of the DM pyramid is visable and the perfect
symmetry structure is preserved.

Lawrence E. Wharton
NASA/GSFC code 913
Greenbelt MD 20771
(301) 286-3486  Email - wharton@climate.gsfc.nasa.gov








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                       Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images

From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 16:00:52 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 01:33:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images

The initial images from NASA look intruiging.  Check out the MGS webpage at http
://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/marsurv.html

I'm still of the opinion that the face is a natural structure.
All the same, the partially processed image does have an
artificial look to it.

Brian






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                                Face Punched

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:11:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 01:34:14 -0400
Subject: Face Punched

Mars face looks as if someone with a giant fist punched it hard
and flattened the features.....ad gave it a (left) black eye.

JPL-processed image (250 kb at jpl.nasa.gov/marsnews/mgs/cydonia)
appears non-symmetric (right half not mirror image of left).
Does not appear sculpted when viewed at 4.32 m/pixel resolution.
I predict arguments will blossom like the flowers this spring.






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                Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara

From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com> [Robert Gates]
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:29:33 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 01:33:06 -0400
Subject: Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara


>  >Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 07:31:38 -0500
>  >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>  >From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>  >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara

>  >Bob,

>  >Have you read all of the work done on Cydonia by the independent
>  >researchers?  Some of the most impressive evidence for the
>  >artificial hypothesis is found in the mound geometry. Have you
>  >read the reports done on that? This was done by very competent
>  >scientists. Dr. Horace Crater was one and Dr. James Strange was
>  >the other. Do you think these gentleman don't know what they're
>  >talking about? The chance of this geometric pattern being random
>  >are very high.

>  >How can you make such a statement like 100% natural when you
>  >personally haven't published any scientific work on the matter or
>  >have you? Even the independent scientists have said that they
>  >believe the objects MAY be artificial but only hi-res photos and
>  >a visit to Mars will settle the issue. They are open to either
>  >hypothesis. You seem bent towards the natural hypothesis.

>  >I don't know what the objects are and I'm waiting to see better
>  >photos before I give any opinions.

>  >Joe in Tampa

>  Joe,

>  I simply think they are natural features.  I am not claiming
>  expertise, other than spending a lot of time in the deserts of
>  the USA and seeing a lot of artificial looking things that I know
>  are natural formations.

>  I'm not saying, as some are, that it is a waste of time to go and
>  take a good look and see if we can tell.  I think the issue needs
>  to be resolved.  I do think that there was life on mars in the
>  distant past, but whether that life got much beyond simple
>  creatures is something that seems questionable.

>  I am very serious in saying that I would like to be proved wrong
>  on this one.

>  Bob
>
I tend to believe that the issue will never be resolved.  Why?

Scenario 1.  NASA releases the photos and they don't show what
Hoagland and all the folks who have staked their lives and
reputations (not to mention the videos and speaking circuit) on.
These folks  will  almost instantly claim coverup, conspiracy,
between NASA and pick your executive branch agency (Air Force,
DOD, DARPA, White House and so on) and argue the issue to death
for the next 20  years.

Scenario 2.  NASA releases the photos and they show things which
appear to be man made ... perhaps even make an announcement.
Hoagland and others will instantly claim vindication for any and
all of his theorys about Mars.

These (NASA and or Hoagland) conclusions will instaneously be
disputed by a number of  "well known" scientists (much like the
Mars fossilized life meteorite) who will put their spin and
interpretation on the subject i.e. why NASA is wrong, why the
photos were incorrectly examined, why their scientific
examinations reflect conclusions that are totally different blah
blah.

Such an announcement will generate a headline on USA today, a day
or two of media flapping, then the the media will  go back to
Clinton Scandel, Ken Starr, and Monica.  The American public will
also yawn after a day or two and go back to beer and major league
baseball.
I too would love to be proved wrong.

Cheers,
Robert







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              Re: "Extraterrestrial Cafe" Will Show Latest UFO

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 04:30:03 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 01:56:20 -0400
Subject: Re: "Extraterrestrial Cafe" Will Show Latest UFO

From the New York Post:

http://www.nypostonline.com:80/040698/gossip/999.htm

*******

PAGE SIX

By RICHARD JOHNSON with Jeane MacIntosh

(snipped)

PLANET Hollywood, Hard Rock Cafe, Fashion Cafe, Harley-Davidson
Cafe, Comedy Nation, Television City and all the other theme
restaurants may be in for some other-worldly competition. With
the millennium approaching, Michael Luckman, director of the New
York Center for UFO Research, hopes to build an extravagant
Extraterrestrial Cafe in Times Square. The joint will feature a
Mars Bar, a live "all alien" band, TV monitors beaming the latest
UFO sightings, and waitresses in futuristic metallic outfits and
flying saucer hats. Luckman, who says the Sphinx-like face found
on Mars could be "the biggest scientific discovery in human
history," is pitching his idea to investors.

<snipped>


Copyright (c) 1998, N.Y.P. Holdings, Inc. All rights reserved.






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                        The New Mars Facial Structure

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:24:25 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 01:57:52 -0400
Subject: The New Mars Facial Structure

Well, what's the verdict on the Face?  Tonight's newscast I
viewed (Peter Jennings) played it down, and talked briefly only
about how it now doesn't look like a face, so that it must have
been a couple tricks of light and shadow before.

What they failed to discuss was the outline of the stucture, and
how impressive that looks as an artificial structure -- a beveled
strip whose outer edge is perfectly straight along the "side of
the head," very gradually curving into the "chin" outline, with
both edges of the upward-inclined "bevel" being parallel or
congruent. The odds against that occurring naturally are
phenomenal. Then, add the symmetry of the right-hand edge, at
least with respect to the outer edge of its beveled strip, and it
seemingly can't possibly be a natural formation.

The viewing wasn't helped by the brighter swath that passed
vertically through the entire strip that was viewed.  And some of
the brighter blotches on the "face" might possibly have been
Martian clouds.

I don't know what to make of the whole central area looking quite
different than on either of the previous two Face photos.  Here
is where the conspiracy theorists need to go to work; or is it
still a face, but highly eroded?

   Jim Deardorff







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                      Re: Vatican Announcement Not Hoax

From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 16:11:22 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 01:54:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Vatican Announcement Not Hoax

Here's an update from www.sightings.com regarding the Vatican
announcements about ETs/contacts.

NOT A HOAX!!
Vatican Admits On National
TV That ET Contact IS REAL
4-4-98

Note - Here is one of the actual Italian television appearances
by Father Balducci stating the Vatican's belief that ETs exist.
His quotations are in Italian. Click here
http://www.worldlink.it/nonsoloufo/baldui01.htm

Monsignor Corrado Balducci, a Vatican theologian insider close to
the Pope has gone on national Italian television five times in
recent months to proclaim that extraterrestrial contact is a real
phenomenon.

--

Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
ICQ Pager 6797092






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                      The Story Of The UFO Superhackers

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 04:06:25 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 01:51:31 -0400
Subject: The Story Of The UFO Superhackers

Thanks to the Sunday Times.

Stig

*******


The schoolboy spy


Sunday Times - London

Sun, Mar 29 1998


The Americans called him their No 1 enemy, but he was only 16. Jonathan
Ungoed-Thomas reveals one of the strangest stories of the cyber-age.

On the evening of April 15, 1994, six American special agents sat in a
concrete basement at a secret air force base patiently waiting for an
attack. Their unseen and unknown enemy had for weeks been rampaging
across the Pentagon network of computers, cracking security codes and
downloading secret files.

Defence officials feared the infiltrator was a foreign agent. They were
monitoring his move ments in a desperate effort to trace him to his
lair.

He had first been spotted by a systems manager at the Rome Laboratory
at the Griffiss air base in New York state, the premier command and
control research facility in the United States. He had breached the
security system and was using assumed computer identities from the air
base to attack other sites, including Nasa, Wright-Patterson air force
base - which monitors UFO sightings - and Hanscom air force base in
Massachusetts. He was also planting "sniffer files" to pick up every
password used in the system.

This was a new type of warfare, a "cyber attack" at the heart of the
most powerful military machine on earth. But the American military had
been preparing for "cyber war" and it had a new breed of agent ready to
fight back against the infiltrator. Computer specialists from the Air
Force Office of Special Investigations (AFOSI) and the Air Force
Information Warfare Centre in San Antonio, Texas, were dispatched to
Rome Laboratory to catch the attacker.

By the end of the second week of their attempt to outwit him, their
windowless basement room was a mess of food wrappers, sleeping bags and
empty Coca-Cola cans. Sitting among the debris, the American cyber
agents saw a silent alarm throb on one of the many terminals packed
into the 30ft by 30ft room. Datastream Cowboy, as he called himself,
was online again.

They carefully tracked him on a computer screen as he used the access
code of a high-ranking Pentagon employee to sign on. This gave him the
power to delete files, copy secret information and even crash the
system. As he sifted through battlefield simulation data, artificial
intelligence files and reports on Gulf war weaponry, the agents worked
frantically at their terminals, trying yet again to establish who he
was and where he had come from. It was futile. Datastream Cowboy always
bounced around the world before launching an attack and it was
impossible even to establish in which country he was sitting.

Suddenly he left the Pentagon system. The agents rapidly checked the
computer address of his new target and were chilled by the result: he
was trying to get access to a nuclear facility somewhere in Korea.

The shocked agents saw a terrible crisis coming. The United States was
embroiled in tense negotiations with North Korea about its suspected
nuclear weapons programme. The Clinton administration was publicly
split between a faction that wanted to punish the Stalinist regime in
Pyongyang for attempting to develop a nuclear bomb and State Department
diplomats who insisted on a gentler approach.

If the paranoid North Koreans detected a computer attack on their
nuclear facility from an American air base - because Datastream Cowboy
had assumed an American military identity by routeing his assault
through the Griffiss computer - they would be bound to believe that the
hawks had won and this was an act of war. Senior defence officials were
hurriedly briefed as the agents attempted to establish the exact
location in Korea of the computer that Datastream Cowboy was trying to
crack.

After several tense hours, they had their answer. His target was in
South Korea, not North. The security alert was over, but the damage
meted out by Datastream Cowboy was not. In the space of a few weeks he
had caused more harm than the KGB, in the view of the American
military, and was the "No 1 threat to US security".

What made Datastream Cowboy so dangerous, in the view of the Americans,
was that he was not alone; he was working with a more sophisticated
hacker who used the "handle" of Kuji. The agents repeatedly watched
Datastream Cowboy unsuccessfully attack a military site and retreat for
an e-mail briefing from Kuji. He would then return and successfully
hack into the site.

Both Datastream Cowboy and Kuji were untraceable. They were weaving a
path through computer systems in South Africa, Mexico and Europe before
launching their attacks. Over 26 days, Datastream Cowboy and Kuji broke
into the Rome Laboratory more than 150 times. Kuji was also monitored
attempting an assault on the computers at Nato headquarters near
Brussels.

It was only three years after the final collapse of Soviet communism,
but there was already a strong fear within the American government that
the United States had become vulnerable to a new military threat:
electronic and computer warfare.

Both America's superpower military arsenal and its huge civilian
economy had become reliant on microchips and in the words of Jamie
Gorelick, a deputy attorney-general: "Some day we will wake up to find
that the electronic equivalent of Pearl Harbor has crippled our
computer networks and caused more chaos than a well placed nuclear
strike. We do not want to wait for that wake-up call."

What made the American military so vulnerable was that the Internet -
the computer communications system that had been developed by Pentagon
scientists as a tool for survival after nuclear war - was opening up in
1994 to anyone in the world who had access to a cheap and powerful
personal computer.

The Internet automatically brought hackers to the very gates of the
Pentagon's most secret files - and it could not be policed, as it had
been deliberately set up without controls to ensure ease of access for
nuclear survivors.

According to official American figures, the Pentagon's military
computers are now suffering cyber attacks at the rate of 250,000 a year
and it is retaliating with a $3.6 billion programme of computer
protection to key systems.

THE attacks by Datastream Cowboy and Kuji were the opening shots in
this barrage, and the Pentagon generals insisted that they had to be
found and put out of action. It would have been relatively simple to
shut them out of the Pentagon network, but they would survive to attack
again - and their identities and the information they had already
stolen would have remained unknown. The American cyber agents were
ordered to continue chasing them through the electronic maze.

But how? They used a process called "fingering" in which they tried to
detect every computer that Datastream Cowboy had used as stepping
stones before attacking them. A computer on the Internet gives its own
address in the first few bytes of any communication and the agents
tried to trace Datastream Cowboy's path backwards. The process can
often be hit and miss because of the vast amount of traffic on the
Internet and the hacker's path was simply too long and circuitous to
follow to its end. The agents almost gave up hope. Then old-fashioned
police work was brought to bear. In the cyber age, where do hackers
hang out? On the Internet, of course. They "chat" with each other
through their screens.

The agents had informants who cruised the Internet and one of these
made the breakthrough. He found that Datastream Cowboy hung out at
Cyberspace, an Internet "service provider" based in Seattle. Moreover,
he was a particularly chatty individual who was eager to engage other
hackers in e-mail conversation. Naive, too. Before long, the informant
had established that Datastream Cowboy lived in the United Kingdom. He
even gave out his home telephone number.

Jubilant, a senior AFOSI agent contacted the computer crime unit in
Scotland Yard for assistance. Datastream Cowboy's number was traced to
a house in a cul-de-sac in Colindale, part of the anonymous north
London suburbs. In cold war days it would have been a classic address
for a spy's hideaway.

Telephone line checks revealed that the hacker was first dialling into
Bogota, the Colombian capital, and then using a free phone line from
there to hack his way into the sensitive military sites.

American agents flew to London and staked out the address with British
police officers. Detectives were cautious, however, about making an
immediate arrest because they wanted Datastream Cowboy to be online
when they entered the house, so that he would be caught in the act.

At 8pm on May 12, 1994, four unmarked cars were parked outside the
Colindale house. Inside one of them, a detective's mobile phone rang.
An agent from the Rome Laboratory was on the other end: Datastream
Cowboy was online. Officers made a second call to British Telecom in
Milton Keynes and established that a free phone call was being made to
South America.

Posing as a courier, one of the officers knocked on the door. As it was
opened by a middle-aged man, eight policemen silently appeared and
swept into the house. The officers quietly searched the downstairs and
first floor. Then, creeping up the stairs to a loft- room, they saw a
teenager hunched in his chair tapping frantically away on the keyboard
of his Pounds 700 PC World computer. They had found Datastream Cowboy.

One of the detectives walked up silently behind the young suspect and
gently removed his hands from the computer.

For 16-year-old Richard Pryce, a music student, it was the shock of his
life. He looked at the policemen as they prepared to arrest him and
collapsed on the floor in tears.

"They thought they were going to find a super-criminal and they just
found me, a teenager playing around on his computer," says Pryce now.
"My mother had noticed people sitting outside our house for a few days
beforehand, but I didn't think much of it. I never thought I would get
caught and it was very disturbing when I did.

"It had just been a game or a challenge from which I had got a real
buzz. It was unbelievable because the computers were so easy to hack,
like painting by numbers."

Pryce, who was then a pupil at The Purcell School in Harrow, Middlesex,
was arrested at his home but released on police bail the same evening.
Five stolen files, including a battle simulation program, were
discovered on the hard disk of his computer. Another stolen file, which
dealt with artificial intelligence and the American Air Order of
Battle, was too large to fit on to his desktop computer. So he had
placed it in his own storage space at an Internet service provider that
he used in New York, accessing it with a personal password.

During the subsequent police interviews, one pressing question remained
unanswered: who was Kuji? Pryce claimed he had only talked with his
hacking mentor on the Internet and did not know where he lived.
American investigators regarded Kuji as a far more sophisticated hacker
than Datastream. He would only stay on a telephone for a short time,
not long enough to be traced successfully. "Kuji assisted and mentored
Datastream and in return received from Datastream stolen
information...Nobody knows what Kuji did with this information or why
it was being collected," agents reported.

Mark Morris, who was then a detective sergeant with Scotland Yard's
computer crime unit, was one of the investigating officers on the case.
"It was awesome that Pryce, who was just one teenager with a computer,
could cause so much havoc, but the greater worry in the US was about
Kuji," says Morris. "The fear was that he could be a spy working for a
hostile foreign power. The job was then to find him."

Pryce did give detectives one telephone number, but it was a red
herring: a school library in Surrey. During the next two years of
compiling evidence in Britain and America in the case against Pryce,
British detectives and American agents failed to turn up any evidence
that might lead to Kuji.

Their break finally came in June 1996 when the computer crime unit
decided to sift once again through the mass of information on the hard
disk of Pryce's computer.

Morris took on the job. "I was at home with my laptop and went through
every bit of that hard disk, which was a huge task." It took him three
weeks. If all the files had been printed out they would have filled 40
filing cabinets.

At last he found what he wanted. "At the bottom of a file in the DOS
directory I saw the name Kuji. Next to the name was a telephone number.
Pryce might not have even known it was on his system because he
downloaded so much information."

For American agents hoping to catch a superspy, Kuji's telephone number
was a grave disappointment. He was based in Cardiff. A team of officers
drove up to his address, a terraced house, and finally discovered
Kuji's identity. He was 21-year-old Mathew Bevan, a soft- spoken
computer worker with a fascination for science fiction. His bedroom
wall was covered with posters from The X Files and one of his consuming
interests was the Roswell incident, the alleged crash of a UFO near
Roswell, New Mexico, in July 1947. He was arrested on June 21, 1996, at
the offices of Admiral Insurance where he worked.

"I would never have been caught if it wasn't for Pryce and even then
they took two years to find me," Bevan says now. "And the only reason
Pryce got caught was that he gave his number to a secret service
informant."

Bevan, the son of a police officer, said he had not even been alarmed
when Datastream Cowboy disappeared from the Internet. "Everyone was
joking with me on the e-mail that he must have been arrested, but I
didn't believe it. It wasn't until a year later that a friend phoned me
and said: 'Have you seen the papers? They think you're a spy'."

However, Bevan became confident that he had escaped detection and was
stunned when he was arrested. "I was told to go and check the managing
director's computer. I went in and there were seven or eight of them in
suits and I was arrested." He was charged the next day with two counts
of conspiracy under the Criminal Law Act 1997. He was later charged
with three offences under the Computer Misuse Act 1990.

Pryce had been charged in June 1995, about 13 months after his arrest,
with 12 offences under Section 1 of the Computer Misuse Act 1990. He
was also charged with conspiracy three days before Bevan's arrest.

At the culmination of one of the biggest ever international computer
crime investigations and after a massive security scare in the United
States, law enforcers were left with a meagre and faintly embarrassing
prize: two young hackers who in their spare time, from the comfort of
their bedrooms, had penetrated what should have been the most secure
defence network in the world. To rub salt into the wounds, their
credentials were hardly impressive. Pryce had scraped a D grade in
computer studies at A-level and Bevan had dropped out of an HND course
in computer science.

Pryce's father, Nick, who restores musical instruments, said: "They
said Richard was a No 1 security threat and I think that was just
rubbish. They had overreacted and when they found out it was just a
teenager, they still wanted to try to make an example of him. I never
knew what he was doing at the time; I just thought he was in his
bedroom playing on his computer. When I found out, I never thought he
had done anything particularly wrong and neither did our friends. He
just showed how bad security was on those computers."

But how did two rather ordinary young men manage to penetrate the
Pentagon computer system and spark such a massive security alert? Both
were bright and articulate, but there was nothing in their backgrounds
to suggest a computer wizardry that would outwit the American military.
Their success was based on a mixture of persistence and good luck,
which was abetted by crude security mistakes in the Pentagon computer
system.

Pryce had had a musical upbringing with his two sisters, Sally and
Katie, and had a passion for playing the double bass. He was bought his
computer when he was 15 to help him in his studies. He would spend his
spare time linked up to a bulletin board on the Internet, where
computer users traded information and chatted. It was here tha he got
his first introduction to hacking.

"I used to get software off the bulletin boards and from one of them I
got a 'bluebox', which could recreate the various frequencies to get
free phonecalls," he said. "I would phone South America and this
software would make noises which would make the operator think I had
hung up. I could then make calls anywhere in the world for free."

Now 20 and in his third year at the Royal College of Music in London,
Pryce said: "I would get on to the Internet and there would be hackers'
forums where I learnt the techniques and picked up the software I
needed. You also get text files explaining what you can do to different
types of computer.

"It was just a game, a challenge. I was amazed at how good I got at it.
It escalated very quickly from being able to hack a low- profile
computer like a university to being able to hack a military system. The
name Datastream Cowboy just came to me in a flash of inspiration."

The attack on Rome Laboratory, his greatest success, relied on a ferret
called Carmen. Pryce easily gained low-level security access to the
Rome computer using a default guest password. Once inside the system,
he retrieved the password file and downloaded it on to his computer. He
then set up a program to bombard the password file with 50,000 words a
second. "I just left the computer running overnight until it cracked
it," he explained.

If all the air force officers with access to the computer had followed
orders and used passwords with a mixture of numerals and letters, his
attack would have been foiled; but luck was on his side.

Morris, who has since left Scotland Yard's computer crime unit and now
works in London for Computer Forensic Investigations, a private
company, revealed: "He managed to crack the file because a lieutenant
in the USAF had used the password Carmen. It was the name of his pet
ferret. Once Pryce had got that, he was free to roam the system. There
was information there that was deemed classified and highly
confidential and he was able to see it."

Once he was in the system, Pryce kept getting access to higher levels
in his aim to become a "root user", which gives the hacker total
control of the computer with the power to shut out other users and
command the entire system.

"I was interested in Rome Labs because I knew they developed stuff for
the military. I just wanted to find out what they were doing. I read
that UFO material was being kept at Wright Patterson base and I thought
it would also be a laugh to get in there. I also hacked into a Nasa
site," he said.

"Rome Labs was my main project. I got the programming code for an
artificial intelligence project. I downloaded files so I could view
them at leisure at home.

"I know there was a big fuss when I tried to hack into a computer in
Korea, but there was nothing sinister about it. I just fancied having a
go at a different sort of computer and I happened to be on the Rome
Laboratory computer. I just tapped in the address for the Korean
research computer, but I didn't hack into it. It never went further
than that." During an intensive three months of hacking, Pryce sent
e-mails at least twice a week to the fellow hacker he knew as Kuji,
without knowing his real name was Mathew Bevan.

Bevan, who is now 23, was more of a loner than Pryce and would spend up
to 30 hours without a break on his computer. He claims the fraternity
of hackers gave him the friendship that he had failed to find during
his childhood. "I was bullied at school and I found my little community
and interaction through my computer," he said. "The hackers would all
egg each other on. There wasn't anything malicious about it. If there
was, I could have downed as many computer systems as I wanted. I was
just really looking for anything about UFOs. It was like war games; I
just couldn't believe what we could get into. I wasn't tutoring Pryce,
but the Americans made out I was because they thought I was some kind
of east European masterspy."

Pryce agrees: "We embarrassed them by showing how lax their security
was and that's why they made out we had been a huge security threat.
I'm now amazed by what I did, but I wasn't surprised at the time. It
was just my hobby. Some people watched television for six hours a day,
I hacked computers."

The first time Pryce and Bevan met in person was in July 1996 when they
appeared at Bow Street magistrates court jointly charged with
conspiracy and offences under the Computer Misuse Act. "He was at the
back of the court when I went in and his mother said: 'You'd better say
hello', which he did. We didn't even have a chat," said Bevan.

Conspiracy charges against both Pryce and Bevan were later dropped, but
in March last year Pryce was fined Pounds 1,200 after admitting 12
offences under the Computer Misuse Act. His lawyers said in mitigation
that there had been some exaggeration when the Senate armed services
committee had been told in 1996 that the Datastream Cowboy had caused
more harm than the KGB and was the "No 1 threat to US security". The
remaining charges against Bevan were dropped in November after the
Crown Prosecution Service decided it was not in the public interest to
pursue the case.

Nevertheless, the case of Datastream Cowboy and Kuji remains one of the
most notorious in American cyber history. The two young men are living
this down in different ways. Pryce's computer was confiscated, to his
initial dismay. "After I had my computer taken away it was quite
difficult because I had been doing it every night for a year," he said.
"If they hadn't caught me, I would have carried on." Now he thinks
hacking was a waste of time and insists he will never do it again. He
does not even own a computer any more.

Bevan, however, has put his notoriety to good use: he is now employed
testing the computer security of private companies.



Targeting the pentagon


United States defence computers have for years been one of the most
coveted targets for hacking addicts inspired by the film War Games,
which showed a boy cracking an American defence network and nearly
starting the third world war.

One of the pioneers of this craze was Kevin Mitnick, who repeatedly
hacked into Pentagon computers in the mid-1980s. He was jailed in 1989
but continued his exploits on his release and was arrested again after
a two-year hunt by the FBI. The number of cyber attacks on the Pentagon
is estimated by Washington officials as 250,000 annually, but the
incidents the public hears about are only the few where hackers get
caught. In 1996 six Danes who hacked into Pentagon computers were given
sentences of up to three months. The same year, special agents tracked
down three teenage hackers in Croatia who had also succeeded in
penetrating Pentagon computers.

They were never identified or charged, however, as there is no law
against computer hacking in Croatia. Last month there was a spectacular
example of the hackers' work when American defence officials revealed
that the Pentagon computer network had been subjected to a relentless
two-month attack. CIA agents were reportedly anxious that the hackers
might be the agents of Saddam Hussein.

FBI agents blamed a secret convention of hackers believed to be held in
New York. A few days ago, the real culprit gave himself up. Ehud
Tenenbaum, an Israeli teenager who dubbed himself The Analyser, had
worked with two young hackers in California. Under house arrest in Tel
Aviv, he said the attacks were not malicious. He had concentrated on
American government sites because he hated organisations. "Chaos, I
think it is a nice idea," he said.


Copyright 1998, Sunday Times - London. All rights reserved.






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                               Books for sale

From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson in Toronto]
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 22:52:09 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 02:09:12 -0400
Subject: Books for sale

BOOKS FOR SALE

I have three copies of "The Gods Have Landed" for sale. If you
are interested in the abduction scenario, you should own this
book. Chapters price; $27.95 + tax = $32.14 CDN. My price is just
$15.00 CDN.

Contact me at <werd@interlog.com>

Ta

Drew Williamson








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                              The Cydonia thing

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:53:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 02:14:34 -0400
Subject:  The Cydonia thing

Oddly, Robert Gates wrote almost exactly a message which I had
composed a week ago, concerning the "explanations" which would
rise from the Cydonia images showing a natural formation. (This
clearly demonstrates that the two of us are under the baleful
influence of the astrological configuration of the Face as it is
geometrically linked with the position and configuration of the
massive underground complexes currently being constructed by a
species of diminutive, nearly sightless beings which have haunted
my locale ever since their first appearance last year, directly
under the yard outside my house (big deep breath) :-).

Unfortunately, I decided not to mail it.

But, thanks to the miracle of modern technology...

Here are the explanations I predict (I have a few more than I
originally predicted):

1) This is not a picture of the Face. NASA has substituted a more
appropriate image to convince us the Face is a landform.

2) This is a picture of the Face, but it has been altered. By
NASA, by MJ-12, by the Cigarette-Smoking Man.

3) This is a picture of the Face, but the aliens have changed the
Face's appearance to hide its true nature, because we are not yet
ready.

4) This is a picture of the Face, but the Face was specially
designed to only look like a face at a certain time of the year,
in accordance with an alien human-worship festival.

One could go on, but this covers most of the possibilities. I now
include another section, from another e-mail, which I sent to
someone concerning images claiming to show massive artificial
structures near the Martian south pole (which were actually JPEG
enhancement artifacts)...

"Unfortunately, the geologic interpretation of orbital
photographs on Mars is not something which can successfully
performed without significant training. Even the basic
identification of features and their origin is complicated by the
conditions on Mars - conditions only rarely approached on Earth
(usually in sub arctic terrain) - extensive low-viscosity lava
flows, extensive subsurface permafrost and melting of that
permafrost by subsurface magma, long-term aeolian erosion and
only localized water erosion.

"Worse, many features on Mars, when viewed by the amateur, are
sufficiently foreign that one with any disposition to see
intelligence at work will construe those features as buildings
and "complexes".  For instance, features in 47B29 (showing units
of Olympus Mons formation burying rugged aureole material) have
some resemblance to the famous "Face" - yet they are simply and
clearly mountains and hills. Or 886A13, where a crater largely
buried in a lava flow could be interpreted by the unwary as some
sort of megalithic stone ring. Or the chaotic terrain features
resulting from permafrost melting and catastrophic water outflow
in 366S68 which such persons might claim (as they do with the
"Pyramids" in Cydonia) as a city of huge structures. (Note: all
of these images can be found in "Mars", Keiffer et. al., U of AZ
Press).

"I appreciate the motivation which leads people to seek evidence
of extraterrestrial intelligence on photos of our neighboring
bodies.
But to do so without a basic familiarity with the normal geology
of the body as represented by the best and clearest images and
data, and without a complete understanding the nature and limits
of image processing, simply invites credible scientists to lump
the best data on UFOs with the worst of these sorts of
speculations."

Like, Bob Shell, I would be glad to find evidence of
extraterrestrial artifacts on neighboring bodies. Unfortunately,
the evidence for such artifacts in Cydonia is basically
non-existent. The landforms seen there are not terribly unusual
when compared to Viking photos of other landforms not claimed to
be of artificial origin. Mundane and reasonable geologic
explanations have been able to account for those other features
quite well.

The Face itself seems quite clearly to be explainable as an
"inselberg", similar to Ayers Rock and others. These formations
are typical of arid locations, such as one would find on Mars.

Having spent some time tonight with the Cydonia photos from MGS,
it seems clear that they show a natural landform. The geometry
surronding the feature is very similar to that found in
terrestrial synclines.

No doubt, some professional processing will reveal more detail as
to the specifics of the feature, but there isn't a single
unexplainable thing in the lot.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront/
------







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                IUFORCE: STS-52 - Photos of Anomolous Object

From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com>
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 98 21:22:36 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 08:46:51 -0400
Subject: IUFORCE: STS-52 - Photos of Anomolous Object

IUFORCE - International UFO Researchers Conference & Exchange



As I recall in the recent past I mentioned STS-52 and some films
and that someone from the ufology community should try and get them.
The original of that message can be seen at:

http://www.crossfields.com/~ace/current/ARCHIVE/1998/Mar/TueMar17175700CST1
998.html

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY responded! I guess that told me how much
my word means or folks thought I was jokeing. NOT SO!

So, not one to let it pass by without trying, I went out and found
someone to fund the purchase. I now have all those films in my
hot little hands. I have yet to look at thousands of photos and
films. No telling what else will turn up of interest.

As for now I have found something I think ALL of you will want
to have a look at. You can judge for yourself. The quality is
not good but I've done the best I can at present to get this stuff
on the web so you can see it. I had to use my video camera with a
make shift cardbord backlight to get a few half decent low rez
photos you can see.

If I seem a bit miffed at you ufologist for snubbing my call for
help it's because I am! :(

As for VALIDITY and PROOF I have "THE NASA MASTER PRINTS!" and I will
allow one person to call me and come and see them for herself
if she wishes. She knows who she is.

Here are the URLS where you can see this. Both have the same material.

http://www,crossfields.com/~general

http://205.241.85.173

Arthur C. Clark should see this!

~Pat~






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                 Re: Gender Differences Between Experiencers

From: jpolanik@mindspring.com [Joseph Poloniak]
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 00:42:16 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 09:17:18 -0400
Subject: Re:  Gender Differences Between Experiencers


Gender Differences

Recently I posted an extract from John Rimmer's _The Evidence for
Alien Abduction_ which suggested that there may be gender
differences in the way that males and females experience,
interpret or report abduction experiences.

Rimmer's particular focus was availability status.

"If we look at those cases where women have been abducted alone,
or in the company of other women ... we find a distinct tendency
towards the phenomenon selecting women who are divorced,
separated or undergoing some sort of marital or sexual crisis."

The responses I've gotten from this post have been extremely
varied:

1. Is Alien Technology a Factor?

It was argued that it is unlikely that women are selected based
on their social/sexual availability status because the abductors
have the technology to 'switch off' a target female's sleepmate.

This is a good argument, but it cuts both ways. If we *were* to
find a correlation between availability status and frequency of
experienced or reported abduction, this would mean either that
the abductors *lacked* the technology they are widely thought to
have or that they were selecting their targets non-randomly. If
this latter point were true, then it would discredit the idea
that aliens are here to do scientific research, which, as several
writers pointed out, is based on using random samples.

2. Do Alien Abductors have a Purpose?

If Alien Abductors select disproportionately more women then men
then the belief that they are here to conduct some sort of
breeding program becomes more plausible.

Perhaps there are ways to test this possibility. If a survey were
to show that women with hysterectomies did not report
significantly fewer abductions than women capable of bearing
children, then there would be no basis for concluding that Alien
Abductors select female targets based on whether they can
contribute to the supposed breeding program.

Similarly, with regard to men, if men with vasectomies or who are
otherwise sterile are abducted about as frequently men who are
capable of impregnating women, then there would be no basis on
which to conclude that Alien Abductors select male targets based
on whether they can contribute to the supposed breeding program.

In any event, in order to test these theories researchers would
have to collect detailed personal information about their
research subjects.
Unfortunately, as Rimmer pointed out, researchers often fail to
gather demographic information about their subjects because of a
prior assumption that such facts are irrelevant --- not a good
way to conduct either scientific or phenomenological research.

3. What the Trionic Research Institute has Discoverd Thus Far

So, why am I dwelling on the issue of gender differences?

Well, as those of you who have visted the TRI website may know,
there is a simple on-line questionnaire. It's purpose is to find
out how people classify experiences that are arguably related to
Awareness during Sleep Paralysis [ASP].

There is also a Query page which enables you to see a table of
the results thus far.

There are two points worthy of note:

1. About as many females as males have filled out the
questionnaire.

Does this mean that there are no gender related differences
involved? Well, that would depend on whether the population of
net users is about half male and half female. I consider this
rather unlikely at this point in time, but maybe it is true.

In any event, there seems to be a distinct gender related
difference in the data we've collected so far. (From the website
Query page, http://www.trionica.com/resultsmenu.htm, select
DataView 2)

I draw your attention to the columns that display results
relating to the trion of Lucid Dream Experience, Out of Body
Experience and Astral Projection Experience (listed on the query
as LDE, OBE and APE, respectively). People often argue whether
these are different interpretations of the same core experience.

In my view, the phrase 'Out-of-Body Experience' is
phenomenologically more accurate than the others --- this is
often the way it seems to experiencers, but it makes no
assumption as to the way 'it really was'.
The phrase 'Lucid Dream Experience' takes the same data and adds
the interpretation that it 'really' was just a hallucination that
happened to happen when the body was asleep. The phrase 'Astral
Projection Experience' substitutes the assumption that it
'really' was a journey in another body and perhaps to another
plane of Being.

Well, for some reason, it seems that males report
disproportionately more Lucid Dreams and females report
disproportionately more OBEs and Astral Projection Experiences.

Do females have different types of experiences than males? Or is
this a gender difference as to interpretation only?

I don't know the answer to that question. At this point I can
only suggest that researchers who ignore the possibility of
gender related differences may be overlooking important
information.







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                        Re: Vatican ET announcement?

From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.ALPcom.it>
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 00:01:02 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 09:22:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Vatican ET announcement?


>From: Majorstar <Majorstar@aol.com> [George A. Filer]
>Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 18:40:35 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Filer's Files #13


>Filer's Files #13-1998  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
>George A. Filer:  MUFON Eastern Director,
>April  2, 1998  Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020
>From edoardo.russo@torino.ALPcom.it Tue Apr  7 02:16:00 1998


Hello George!


>Allegedly a Monsignor Cibrinni from Vatican is announcing that extr-
>terrestrials are real.  Allegedly he has something to with exorisism,
>Do you have any knowledge if this true?

I read it was Monsignor Corrado Balducci, but I am afraid the
news was made somehow bigger than reality. Mr Balducci has often
spoken about UFOs and ETs, mostly on TV programs, but his own
approach has always been very rough,  uninformed and prejudiced.

He may well have recently said something more open-minded, but
nobody noticed it, here in Italy. Please believe that our own
members are closely monitoring and busily videorecording all TV
programs where UFOs are even marginally mentioned, and the news
item says Balducci went on national TV (RAI) as many as FIVE
times in the last few months stating extraordinary claims that
would have made headlines here.

I'll check the news item presently circulating in the USA, but
may I remind you that's not the first time that sensational as
unfounded claims are spread on your side of the Big Pond about
the Pope's (or Vatican hierarchy's) alleged interest in UFOs,
aliens, Hale-Bopp or whatever else, and may I add that the news
item (from Australia?) also quote such a "reliable" source as
"alleged MJ-12 scientist Dr. Michael Wolf"?

Anyhow, Mr Balducci is NOT entitled to speak on behalf of the
Catholic hierarchy and - as far as I understand it - he has often
stated very personal and "unorthodox" opinions.

>Are you recieving my Filer's Files?
>Copy is attached.

I get it through Errol's UFO Updates, thank you. And I answer you
via that same mailing list, since others may be interested.

Regards




Edoardo Russo                             Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici
CISU, Casella postale 82, 10100 Torino - tel 011-3290279 - fax 011-545033
http://www.arpnet.it/~ufo          e-mail: edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it







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                              Re: Face Punched

From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 02:16:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 09:25:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Face Punched

> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:11:27 -0400
> From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
> Subject: FACE PUNCHED
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> Mars face looks as if someone with a giant fist punched it hard
> and flattened the features.....ad gave it a (left) black eye.

> JPL-processed image (250 kb at jpl.nasa.gov/marsnews/mgs/cydonia)
> appears non-symmetric (right half not mirror image of left).
> Does not appear sculpted when viewed at 4.32 m/pixel resolution.
> I predict arguments will blossom like the flowers this spring.

Bruce,

Why not try deconvolving the released data set to lower
resolution to see what it shows.  This is a pretty elementary
image processing operation.

My prediction is that at no resolution will the released data set
bear any resemblence to the Viking pictures.

Bottom line - the released image is not an image of the object
imaged by Viking.

Moreover no information which could be held up in a court of law
has been provided by NASA to establish that this new image is an
image of the object imaged by Viking.

Gary Alevy







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                             NASA pseudo-science

From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com> [Gary Alevy]
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 02:29:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 09:46:57 -0400
Subject: NASA pseudo-science


07:49 PM ET 04/06/98

NASA images show Mars ``face'' is just a hill


            LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - NASA released a new photograph of
Mars on Monday showing that the so-called ``Face on Mars'' is
only a hill.
            The image, taken by the Mars Surveyor circling the red
planet, gave scientists the closest look yet at the surface
feature that appears to resemble a human face. The face in the
Cydonia region of Mars had come to light after it appeared in
pictures taken by the 1976 Viking mission.
            Some scientists since then have speculated that the
``face''
was not a one-mile long natural feature, but rather might be a
monument surrounded by pyramids, suggesting some kind of life on
Mars.
            But the image released Monday on the the web site of the
National Aeronautics and Space Administration put that theory to
rest.
            ``It looks like a natural figure,'' said spokeswoman Diane
Ainsworth.

EOF
---


How can a 'theory be put to rest' when NASA has in no way
done any kind of scientific comparison of the images.

1. NASA has not demonstrated that the images were
taken of the same location.

2. NASA did not make the data available in realtime.

3. The absence of features in the surrounding terrain
to make an appropriate image comparison raises more
questions than can be answered by what ever it is that
the have included in the image.

Gary








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                      Re: Vatican Announcement Not Hoax

From: authority@webtv.net (Doc in Phoenix) [John Barry]
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:23:22 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 09:43:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Vatican Announcement Not Hoax

The Sightings on the Radio webpage is updated by Richard Boylan,
Ph.D.

In this latest story of a Vatican announcement, implying
forthcoming changes in Vatican policy, a Dr. Michael Wolf is
mentioned.

Dr. Michael Wolf is a fiction writer who claims two Ph.D., an
M.D., and many other degrees, none of which can be verified.  It
has been stated that a government agency has erased his academic
credentials, without changing his name.  That is an impossibility
because it would mean collection of class year books from
hundreds of different individuals.
The alleged "Dr." Wolf also claims he was a flight surgeon, an
advisor to President Clinton, and a member of the highly secret
MJ12 group. He is active in what he calls, The New England
Institute for Advanced Research, that has 30 employees.  However,
the Institute's address and phone is in the "Dr." Wolf's
Hartford, Connecticut apartment.

Before you evaluate the current "Vatican Announcement Update"
know that the original story was about something revealed to a
"clinical professional" who remains unnamed.  Vatican
announcements are not made by one priest talking on TV.  Nor are
they made by one priest talking about a case of child molestation
on TV.  Vatican announcements are made by the Vatican, period.

===  Doc








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                       My Conclusion on the Mars Face

From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 98 02:01:20 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 10:28:43 -0400
Subject: My Conclusion on the Mars Face


 I have concluded from image studies that the Mars images
 of today most certainly and without doubt is the actual
 area of the face. What you see is what you get.

 NASA has played no game. There ain't no face, there
 ain't no pyramids, there ain't nothing there to convince
 me that that there is anything but natural formations.

 For those who may doubt, I will soon post my image studies
 and you can draw your own conclusions.

 ~Pat~






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                      Re: The New Mars Facial Structure

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 02:57:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 10:27:30 -0400
Subject: Re: The New Mars Facial Structure

> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:24:25 -0700 (PDT)
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
> Subject: The new Mars facial structure

> What they failed to discuss was the outline of the stucture, and
> how impressive that looks as an artificial structure -- a beveled
> strip whose outer edge is perfectly straight along the "side of
> the head," very gradually curving into the "chin" outline, with
> both edges of the upward-inclined "bevel" being parallel or
> congruent. The odds against that occurring naturally are
> phenomenal. Then, add the symmetry of the right-hand edge, at
> least with respect to the outer edge of its beveled strip, and it
> seemingly can't possibly be a natural formation.

Actually it can quite easily be a natural formation, and the
outline structure can easily be caused by either a syncline or
slumped permafrost material, both of which are easily found
around many features in both MGS and Viking photos.

Saying that "the odds against that occurring naturally are
phenomenal" is very misleading. On what basis are such odds
calculated? Many geologic features, on Mars and elsewhere,
contain relatively straight lines. These include

Faults
Synclines
Anticlines
Polygonal cracking in cooling lava
Polygonal sorting in tundra terrains
Collapsed lava tubes (i.e. rills)

Of these, synclines, anticlines, and polygonal features tend to
produce outlines and sometimes nested outlines with parallel
lines, some of which, depending on erosion, can be curved or
straight. Further, slumping of material from an isenberg can
generate a parallel plateau which can be further modified by
erosion.

Finally, certain types of cratering can cause nested ring
formations of various sizes, which, after erosion, can
generate some parallel features.

Thus, the odds are not against such a feature being natural.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront/
------







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                     Re: 'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real

From: "Keith Woodard" <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:23:02 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 10:30:45 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real

> From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com> [Robert Gates]
> Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 23:02:24 EDT
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real

<snip>

> Chuck Shramek and his "companion object following hale Bopp" tale,  which
he  later disowned to the press.

<snip>

I missed this "disowning."  Anyone have a quote and/or reference?

Keith






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                       Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 06:43:12 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 10:46:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images

>Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 11:29:35 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>Subject: Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images

>>Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 06:40:57 -0500
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara

>>>Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 07:31:38 -0500
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara

>>>Bob,

>>>Have you read all of the work done on Cydonia by the independent
>>>researchers?  Some of the most impressive evidence for the
>>>artificial hypothesis is found in the mound geometry. Have you
>>>read the reports done on that? This was done by very competent
>>>scientists. Dr. Horace Crater was one and Dr. James Strange was
>>>the other. Do you think these gentleman don't know what they're
>>>talking about? The chance of this geometric pattern being random
>>>are very high.

>>>How can you make such a statement like 100% natural when you
>>>personally haven't published any scientific work on the matter or
>>>have you? Even the independent scientists have said that they
>>>believe the objects MAY be artificial but only hi-res photos and
>>>a visit to Mars will settle the issue. They are open to either
>>>hypothesis. You seem bent towards the natural hypothesis.

>>>I don't know what the objects are and I'm waiting to see better
>>>photos before I give any opinions.

>>>Joe in Tampa

>Bob has already responded to this, but I wanted to add a couple
>of thoughts.

>While Bob is a photographer by trade, and not a scientist, I
>think that an opinion regarding whether or not a formation looks
>natural or not is valuable.  He, after all, has a trained eye and
>looks at a scene in its entirety.  Any conclusions would have to
>be accepted with his background in mind, and it should be
>understood that any conclusion would be based on how it looks,
>and not on a subset of data that has been derived through other
>analysis.  In his message, I think that Bob was very clear that
>he was only offerring this as an opinion.

>Will the new Surveyor images help to clear up this mystery?
>Perhaps.
>
>Of course, IMHO, the issue for many people is more a religion
>than a scientific examination.  If the images appear to show that
>the "face" is a "natural" formation, there are those who would
>criticize that they must have been "doctored" by NASA before they
>were released.  Those who have a vested interest in this matter
>will make every effort to fit the new data into their belief
>system, and what doesn't fit will be judged irrelevent or
>tainted.

>I am very interested in what many scientists have to say about
>the new images, and would be very pleased if they show an
>artificial formation. However, I suspect that unless the images
>are much more detailed than exected, this could serve to ignite a
>broader debate.

>In closing, I found an interesting synopsis of the history of
>this story, and provide it for your information and review:


Thanks, Steve,

People do tend to over react when you step on their religion.

The first images of Cydonia are up on JPL's site. I've downloaded
the high res versions and magnified and enhanced them as much as
is practical, and I just don't see ANYTHING but a bunch of sand
and rock.

We need to do overlays of the old and new to see just what
features were being interpreted as "face", "pyramid", "fort",
etc.

Bottom line, there ain't no face.

Now it will be interesting to see how Dick Hoagland and others
"save face"!  Should be fun and games.

Bob








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                Re: Partial Context for Vatican Announcement

From: "Keith Woodard" <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 04:49:30 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 10:48:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Partial Context for Vatican Announcement

Apparently, the first English report on the Internet of the
Vatican's "announcement of the reality of extraterrestrial
contact" appeared last Friday evening, when Dr. Richard Boylan
posted to I_UFO text now archived at:

http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/apr/m05-002.shtml

The ensuing firestorm of controversy rapidly engulfed that
ever-volatile mailing list, drawing even me into its swirling
flames.

Saturday morning, Dr. Boylan offered this elaboration:

"The information on the Vatican announcing extraterrestrial
reality on Italian national television comes to me from the ACCET
clinician who herself dialogued with the Vatican spokesperson,
Monsignor Balducci.

"And I received independent verification of Monsignor Balducci's
proclamations on Italian television from a noted Italian UFO/ET
investigator-lecturer, Giorgio Bongiovanni."

However, yesterday I posted this inquiry to Dr. Boylan:

"Suppose the church hierarchy begins taking the abduction/contact
phenomenon seriously.  They're not sure what it is, but they no
longer believe it's demonic, the result of an abnormal
personality, or an attention-seeking device.  It could be
angelic, visionary, mystical, or possibly even extraterrestrial.

"Suppose Monsignor Balducci is one of their key investigators in
this area.   Suppose they authorize him to go on television five
times and talk informally about this shift in their thinking.
Would it be fair to say this represented an official
announcement?  Wouldn't this be consistent with the story your
sources tell?"

He responded:

"The one thing off in the scenario you spin is the word
'informally.'  Monsignor Balducci was on national television as a
spokesperson for the Vatican."

I followed up with:

"This scenario is approaching something I wouldn't find so
difficult to believe.  Suppose I remove the word "informally."
And suppose he wasn't authorized to appear for the specific
purpose of making this announcement, but that his superiors are
very well aware of the wide-ranging television interviews in
which he is introduced, perhaps not with the words "spokesperson
for the Vatican," but with his official title and position.
Would this be consistent with your information?"

I await Dr. Boylan's answer.

Kind regards,

Keith







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                         [M-TRAC - NPAA] Face image

From: SKvs <bradford@globalserve.net> [Sue Kovios]
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 07:59:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 10:50:21 -0400
Subject: [M-TRAC - NPAA] Face image



Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 11:44:28 +0200
To: cydonia@majordomo.pobox.com, mars_updates@world.std.com
From: JJ Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.net>
Subject: [M-TRAC - NPAA] Face image

Face image analysis posted to NPAA web site :


www.mufor.org/ares/mgs/prettyface2.jpg  (335 k)

Analysis by Bryan Butcher

-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-
Near Pathfinder Anomaly Analysis
Possible artifacts in Ares Vallis
http://www.mufor.org/ares/

The M-TRAC Project
A private, unmanned mission to Mars
http://www.mufor.org/mtrac/


  No pienses que es imposible,
  confia en tu corazon,
  nada es lo que parece,
  el mundo es una ilusion.

(translation:
  Don't think it's impossible,
  trust your heart,
  nothing is what it seems
  the world is an illusion.)









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                         Re: Cydonia image available

From: Kerry Ferrand <kferrand@rocketmail.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 05:21:33 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 11:13:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Cydonia image available


> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 16:32:17 -0700
> From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: [Fwd: Cydonia image available]

> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:51:18 -0400
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> From: Larry Wharton <wharton@climate.gsfc.nasa.gov>
> Subject: Cydonia image available

> The Mars Observer image of the Cydonia area on Mars is now
> available on:

> http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/target/CYD1/index.html
>
> The face is clearly visable with higher resolution than the
> previous image and it still is a perfect image of a face.  Also
> now all sides of the DM pyramid is visable and the perfect
> symmetry structure is preserved.


Is this message a joke? In no way can the new images be taken as
a "perfect image of a face" ..perfect image of a face after
meeting both shotgun barrels perhaps..


K

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com







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                      Re: Vatican Announcement Not Hoax

From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.ALPcom.it>
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 15:30:27 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 11:18:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Vatican Announcement Not Hoax

>Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 16:11:22 -0700
>From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Vatican Announcement Not Hoax

>Here's an update from www.sightings.com regarding the Vatican
>announcements about ETs/contacts.

>NOT A HOAX!!
>Vatican Admits On National
>TV That ET Contact IS REAL
>4-4-98

>Note - Here is one of the actual Italian television appearances
>by Father Balducci stating the Vatican's belief that ETs exist.
>His quotations are in Italian. Click here
>http://www.worldlink.it/nonsoloufo/baldui01.htm


Ah! Now it's clearer!

It's just the former website of the Italian UFO cult
"Nonsiamosoli" (Wearenotalone), headed by contactee, BVM
visionnaire and "stigmatized" Giorgio Bongiovanni.

If you can read Italian, you should also find interviews with
such notorius frauds as "Mel Noel". Their main philosophy is: all
is good and true as of ET claims.

When Bongiovanni recently became more commercial-oriented
(selling the dying alien interview footage and the like), his
webmaster divorced from him, renamed the site as "nonsoloufo"
(NotOnlyUFO) but left most of the wild claims taken from their
magazine therein.

Now I'll be able to check dates and coordinates of alleged TV
broadcasts.

Thanks.



Edoardo Russo                             Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici
CISU, Casella postale 82, 10100 Torino - tel 011-3290279 - fax 011-545033
http://www.arpnet.it/~ufo          e-mail: edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it







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                       Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 07:54:21 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 11:15:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images

>From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com> [Robert Gates]
>Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:29:33 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Mars Global Surveyor Images

>I tend to believe that the issue will never be resolved.  Why?

>Scenario 1.  NASA releases the photos and they don't show what
>Hoagland and all the folks who have staked their lives and
>reputations (not to mention the videos and speaking circuit) on.
>These folks  will  almost instantly claim coverup, conspiracy,
>between NASA and pick your executive branch agency (Air Force,
>DOD, DARPA, White House and so on) and argue the issue to death
>for the next 20  years.

>Scenario 2.  NASA releases the photos and they show things which
>appear to be man made ... perhaps even make an announcement.
>Hoagland and others will instantly claim vindication for any and
>all of his theorys about Mars.

>These (NASA and or Hoagland) conclusions will instaneously be
>disputed by a number of  "well known" scientists (much like the
>Mars fossilized life meteorite) who will put their spin and
>interpretation on the subject i.e. why NASA is wrong, why the
>photos were incorrectly examined, why their scientific
>examinations reflect conclusions that are totally different blah
>blah.

>Such an announcement will generate a headline on USA today, a day
>or two of media flapping, then the the media will  go back to
>Clinton Scandel, Ken Starr, and Monica.  The American public will
>also yawn after a day or two and go back to beer and major league
>baseball.
>I too would love to be proved wrong.

>Cheers,
>Robert


Well, let's see.

The photos are out, and there is no face. Nothing, nada, zippo.

Let's see how Hogland et.al. react.

Panem et circusenses!

Bob








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                     Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 09:58:15 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 11:40:30 -0400
Subject: Re:  My Conclusion on the Mars Face


> Subject: My Conclusion on the Mars Face.
> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 98 02:01:20 -0500
> From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com>
> To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>


> NASA has played no game. There ain't no face, there
> ain't no pyramids, there ain't nothing there to convince
> me that that there is anything but natural formations.

> ~Pat~

I have to agree. The image is clearly that of the same area
imaged as the 'face' in the Viking photos. The formation is, in
many respects, similar to Ayres Rock in Australia.  Impressive,
but (unfortunately), it appears to my reltively untrained eyes to
be natural.

I suspect that the controversy will rage on, however, with dark
conspiracy theories and the usual well-meant but naive
interpretations by those untrained in geological science (if
there are any trained geologists out there, it would be
interesting to hear your opinions).

Brian






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                              Re: Face Punched

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:09:45 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 11:44:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Face Punched


>Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 02:16:13 -0400
>From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com> [Gary Alevy]
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Face Punched

>> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:11:27 -0400
>> From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>> Subject: FACE PUNCHED
>> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>> Mars face looks as if someone with a giant fist punched it hard
>> and flattened the features.....ad gave it a (left) black eye.

> JPL-processed image (250 kb at jpl.nasa.gov/marsnews/mgs/cydonia)
>> appears non-symmetric (right half not mirror image of left).
>> Does not appear sculpted when viewed at 4.32 m/pixel resolution.
>> I predict arguments will blossom like the flowers this spring.>

>>Bruce,

>Why not try deconvolving the released data set to lower
>resolution to see what it shows.  This is a pretty elementary
>image processing operation.>

YES INDEED!.   This is now Carlatto's "duty" as a scientist,
gentlemen and/or ufologist. He has all the software and hardware
to to it (I don't). He should

1) use a symmetric (in x and y) low-pass (spatial frequency)
filter to reduce the resolution to that of the original face (OF)
pictures of 20 years ago

2)  create a 3-D model of teh degraded mage

3)  change the viewpoint to that of the satellite 20 years ago

4)  change the sun angle to that of 30 years ago

(He could reverse 1 and 2). In other words, demonstrate that it
is possible to go from the real face (RF) image to the OF image.

>My prediction is that at no resolution will the released data set
>bear any resemblence to the Viking pictures.>

WEll, this is a prediction Carlatto should check. And I, for one
would not bet against the ability o make the RF image look like
the OF image once viewing angle and solar angle are taken into
account.

>Bottom line - the released image is not an image of the object
>imaged by Viking.  >

True.... wrong viewing angle, wrong solar angle..and
"extreme" resolution, as compared with the old

>Moreover no information which could be held up in a court of law
>has been provided by NASA to establish that this new image is an
>image of the object imaged by Viking.>

That may be true.... but presumably they can demonstrate the
complete "data flow".   My own hunch is that because of all this
publicity they have just dumped the raw data for anyone.
(I tried to download th 5 MB raw data but couldn't get it
yesterday.... probably too many hits on their web site)






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               Re: UFORCE: STS-52 - Photos of Anomolous Object

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 08:48:11 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 11:39:04 -0400
Subject: Re: UFORCE: STS-52 - Photos of Anomolous Object

>Subject: STS-52 - Photos of Anomolous Object
>Date: Tue, 31 Mar 98 21:22:36 -0600
>From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com>
>To: <iuforce@anne.crossfields.com>

>IUFORCE - International UFO Researchers Conference & Exchange

>As I recall in the recent past I mentioned STS-52 and some films
>and that someone from the ufology community should try and get them.
>The original of that message can be seen at:

>http://www.crossfields.com/~ace/current/ARCHIVE/1998/Mar/TueMar17175700CST1
>998.html

>Nobody, and I mean NOBODY responded! I guess that told me how much
>my word means or folks thought I was jokeing. NOT SO!
>
>So, not one to let it pass by without trying, I went out and found
>someone to fund the purchase. I now have all those films in my
>hot little hands. I have yet to look at thousands of photos and
>films. No telling what else will turn up of interest.

>As for now I have found something I think ALL of you will want
>to have a look at. You can judge for yourself. The quality is
>not good but I've done the best I can at present to get this stuff
>on the web so you can see it. I had to use my video camera with a
>make shift cardbord backlight to get a few half decent low rez
>photos you can see.

>If I seem a bit miffed at you ufologist for snubbing my call for
>help it's because I am! :(

>As for VALIDITY and PROOF I have "THE NASA MASTER PRINTS!" and I will
>allow one person to call me and come and see them for herself
>if she wishes. She knows who she is.
>
>Here are the URLS where you can see this. Both have the same material.
>
>http://www,crossfields.com/~general
>
>http://205.241.85.173

>Arthur C. Clark should see this!

>~Pat~

Since the object and the window frame appear to be in
approximately equally sharp focus, it can't be all that far away.
Most likely a chunk of space garbage, possibly even something
which was ejected from the shuttle itself.

Does NASA have an "official explanation" of what this is?

Bob








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                            Re: The Cydonia thing

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:10:50 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 13:43:15 -0400
Subject: Re: The Cydonia thing


>Subject: The Cydonia thing
>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:53:09 -0400
>To: updates@globalserve.net

As I pointed out in a mesage to Deardorff,  Carlatto et al  now
have the "duty" of taking the high resolution data, degrading it
by using a "low pass filter" (leaving only low spatial
frequencies... i.e., blurring out fine details leaving only the
grosser aspects  .... and I do mean gross.... of the high
resolution image to prove that the original face (OF) can be
created from the real face (RF).

In other words, use electronics to synthesize a picture of the
face as it would have appeared to the original spacecraft 20
years ago if viewed from the viewing angle and under th sun
illumination conditions at te time of the newest photos.








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                      Re: The New Mars Facial Structur

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:10:55 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 13:45:04 -0400
Subject: Re: The New Mars Facial Structur


>Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:24:25 -0700 (PDT)
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>Subject: The new Mars facial structure

>Well, what's the verdict on the Face?  Tonight's newscast I
>viewed (Peter Jennings) played it down, and talked briefly only
>about how it now doesn't look like a face, so that it must have
>been a couple tricks of light and shadow before.

>What they failed to discuss was the outline of the stucture, and
>how impressive that looks as an artificial structure -- a beveled
>strip whose outer edge is perfectly straight along the "side of
>the head," very gradually curving into the "chin" outline, with
>both edges of the upward-inclined "bevel" being parallel or
>congruent. The odds against that occurring naturally are
>phenomenal. Then, add the symmetry of the right-hand edge, at
>least with respect to the outer edge of its beveled strip, and it
>seemingly can't possibly be a natural formation.

>The viewing wasn't helped by the brighter swath that passed
>vertically through the entire strip that was viewed.  And some of
t>he brighter blotches on the "face" might possibly have been
>Martian clouds.>

>I don't know what to make of the whole central area looking quite
>different than on either of the previous two Face photos.  Here
>is where the conspiracy theorists need to go to work; or is it
>still a face, but highly eroded?>

>   Jim Deardorff


To me the overall shpe looks like an island in a very shallow
river.....perhaps there was majr water flow in this area.

As far as the face imag is concerned, Carlatto now has the
following "duty" to perform.

Using the 4.3 m resolution data, apply a uniform (in x and y)
spatial low frequency filter that essentially degrades the
resolution to what it was before (I don't recall.... 100 m or
something like that) and demonstrate that the "filtered face"
(FF) can be thereby retrieved from the "real Face" (RF). He will
have to also manage to shift the illumination and viewing angles
to get a match between the FF and the original.







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              Re: IUFORCE: STS-52 - Photos of Anomolous Object

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:10:31 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 13:46:47 -0400
Subject: Re: IUFORCE: STS-52 - Photos of Anomolous Object


>Subject: STS-52 - Photos of Anomolous Object
>Date: Tue, 31 Mar 98 21:22:36 -0600
>From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com>
>To: <iuforce@anne.crossfields.com>

>As I recall in the recent past I mentioned STS-52 and some films
>and that someone from the ufology community should try and get them.
>The original of that message can be seen at:

<snip>

>Nobody, and I mean NOBODY responded! I guess that told me how much
>my word means or folks thought I was jokeing. NOT SO!

<snip>

>If I seem a bit miffed at you ufologist for snubbing my call for
>help it's because I am! :(


Sorry 'bout that! We all have things to do, places to go, videos
to analyze..... etc.

Hope you found something good.






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                              Re: Face Punched

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 11:24:28 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 14:07:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Face Punched

>Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 02:16:13 -0400
>From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Face Punched

<text deleted>

>Bruce,

>Why not try deconvolving the released data set to lower
>resolution to see what it shows.  This is a pretty elementary
>image processing operation.

>My prediction is that at no resolution will the released data set
>bear any resemblence to the Viking pictures.

>Bottom line - the released image is not an image of the object
>imaged by Viking.

>Moreover no information which could be held up in a court of law
>has been provided by NASA to establish that this new image is an
>image of the object imaged by Viking.

>Gary Alevy

Gary-

I had thought that the hope was for a better picture of the
region, and not an image that was to be modified to look like the
original.  However, I would assume from the thrust of your
statement that you believe NASA wouldn't release any data that
would seem to indicate that the structure isn't a natural
formation.  This belief would put NASA in a no-win situation, in
that there is nothing they could provide that would be
acceptable, unless it conforms to what is expected.

Is a legal challange being proposed here, to force NASA to prove
that the images are what they are purported to be?  That would be
a first, and presumes that only information that is provable in a
court of law is acceptable.  In reality, I would suspect that any
evidence submitted by NASA to prove that the image is of the same
area would be met with criticism by those who already "know" the
truth, and even a court ruling would be questioned as "part of
the plot".

Anyone who believes these images (and the ones to follow this
month) will end the debate and force one side to "give in" is
most likely mistaken.

NASA imaged the area as promised, and posted those images to the
"net". Other images will likely follow as the planet is mapped.
But unfortunately (IMHO, and not directed at those involved in
this particular thread) this is like a "religion" to some "true
believers", and for them this isn't really a discussion.  No
matter what is shown, their "faith" won't be shatterred.









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                            Re: The Cydonia thing

From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 98 09:47:32 PDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 14:05:28 -0400
Subject: Re: The Cydonia thing


> Subject: The Cydonia thing
> From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:53:09 -0400
> To: updates@globalserve.net


> Like, Bob Shell, I would be glad to find evidence of
> extraterrestrial artifacts on neighboring bodies. Unfortunately,
> the evidence for such artifacts in Cydonia is basically
> non-existent. The landforms seen there are not terribly unusual
> when compared to Viking photos of other landforms not claimed to
> be of artificial origin. Mundane and reasonable geologic
> explanations have been able to account for those other features
> quite well.

> The Face itself seems quite clearly to be explainable as an
> "inselberg", similar to Ayers Rock and others. These formations
> are typical of arid locations, such as one would find on Mars.

> Having spent some time tonight with the Cydonia photos from MGS,
> it seems clear that they show a natural landform. The geometry
> surronding the feature is very similar to that found in
> terrestrial synclines.

> No doubt, some professional processing will reveal more detail as
> to the specifics of the feature, but there isn't a single
> unexplainable thing in the lot.


Mark,

As usual you make excellent sense.  It should not be forgotten,
of course, that there will be two more passes later this month
over Cydonia, and those ought to resolve any remaining issues.

Of course it would have been wonderful if Cydonia had yielded
concrete evidence of intelligent artifacts on the Red Planet, but
the good news is that we now apparently have a solid answer to
what had been an intriguing question. And if we are
truth-seekers, not mystery-mongers or conspiracy-conjurors, that
is a cause for rejoicing.  Let's hope that the other mysteries
that concern get solved as conclusively.

Jerry Clark







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                       Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images

From: entropy@dagda.sunflower.com [Tom Genereaux]
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:37:26 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 14:09:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images


> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 06:43:12 -0500
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images

> >Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 11:29:35 -0400
> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
> >Subject: Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images

> >>Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 06:40:57 -0500
> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara

> >>>Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 07:31:38 -0500
> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >>>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
> >>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara

<massive snip to save bandwidth>

> Thanks, Steve,

> People do tend to over react when you step on their religion.

> The first images of Cydonia are up on JPL's site. I've downloaded
> the high res versions and magnified and enhanced them as much as is
> practical, and I just don't see ANYTHING but a bunch of sand and
> rock.

> We need to do overlays of the old and new to see just what
> features were being interpreted as "face", "pyramid", "fort",
> etc.

> Bottom line, there ain't no face.

> Now it will be interesting to see how Dick Hoagland and others
> "save face"!  Should be fun and games.

> Bob

Bob -

Mike Malin has the MOC and Viking reference frames up on his website.
The MOC frames are put into the context of the Viking frames.  As
usual, he has also provided a detailed reference as to what image
processing was done.

Tom G.







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              Re: IUFORCE: STS-52 - Photos of Anomolous Object

From: "Cathy Johnson" <rfsignal@idirect.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 00:11:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 14:54:29 -0400
Subject: Re: IUFORCE: STS-52 - Photos of Anomolous Object


>Subject: STS-52 - Photos of Anomolous Object
>Date: Tue, 31 Mar 98 21:22:36 -0600
>From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com>
>To: <iuforce@anne.crossfields.com>

>IUFORCE - International UFO Researchers Conference & Exchange


Dear Pat,

I apologize for getting in where you were upset because no one
dared to look.  Well, I went and looked. I had to do a bit of
digging to get the browser to work, but I did see the pictures
you were speaking of.  Now, what remains is to explain what the
object in question might possibly be.

Admittedly, there is a huge amount of debris and junk floating
around up that high.  But, the question is could that object have
ever been a part of any manmade object that was rocketed up there
in the first place?  I would like to think that there is a
database of everything mankind has sent up into space.  But, I
don't think that there will be an easy explanation for this one.
What do you think?

By the way, I thought to comment on the excellent effort you have
been up to and you should be proud of it.  Great work!

Take care for now,
Cathy Johnson







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                         Re: Cydonia image available

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 12:48:10 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 14:56:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Cydonia image available

Kerry Ferrand wrote:

> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 05:21:33 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Kerry Ferrand <kferrand@rocketmail.com>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Cydonia image available
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

Re: Goddard employee post on symmetry of "The Face".

> Is this message a joke? In no way can the new images be taken as
> a "perfect image of a face" ..perfect image of a face after
> meeting both shotgun barrels perhaps..

Remember that this Goddard employee saw the *original* data
downloaded from MGS.

(He said with tongue planted firmly in cheek.)

Seriously, sources inside NASA say that the image we viewed
yesterday was the result of bombardment of "The Face" by SDI
energy weapons much the same as Napoleon's troups took shots at
the Sphinx nose.

Seriously (really this time), methinks Mr. Wharton was having
some fun with Vortex listserver members. Obviously, he nailed me
as I realized upon seeing the first contrast-enhanced versions of
the MGS data.

BTW, I still want to see "The Fort" reimaged!

Terry







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             Society for Planetary SETI Research (SPSR) - Press

From: "Yvonne Hedenland" <vonni_h@email.msn.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:22:05 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 14:58:38 -0400
Subject: Society for Planetary SETI Research (SPSR) - Press


From: Hoomai [Hoomai@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 1998 11:14 AM
To: diana@oznet.com
UFO Forum http://forums.msn.com/ufo

Subject: Press Release

Controversial Features on Mars:
Scientific Studies Say High Probability Some are Artificial

Chicago  We�ve been studying the Cydonian region
of Mars for two decades, says Professor Stanley V.
McDaniel, spokesperson for The Society for Planetary
SETI Research (SPSR).   It has taken us that long to
produce the statistical studies and image analysis that
allow us to conclude there�s a high probability that some
of the Cydonia features may be nonrandom or even
artificial. We�re thrilled that NASA and JPL have worked
so hard to produce these images.

They look very intriguing so far, but the right side of the
image could well be obscured by the camera angle.
Anyway, science takes time, so we�ll be analyzing
today�s images and the other upcoming Mars Global
Surveyor images of Cydonia with great care to discover
whether they confirm or disconfirm our findings--many of
which will be updated at the American Geophysical
Union meetings in late May.

In 1976," McDaniel continued, "Officials made a snap
judgment that the Mars �Face� was 'natural' within three
hours of receiving  the images from Mars. Many of their
premature claims turned out to be mistaken. With the
arrival of new images from the Global Surveyor, there
will once again be a temptation to make premature
conclusions. No one image of the Face will end the
controversy because of the two-dozen or so other
anomalous formations in the region which form the
basis of many of our statistical conclusions.

Image Scientist Dr. Mark Carlotto added, We�re seeing
some of the features we predicted but some of them
we�re not. There could be several reasons for this. One
is that we�re not able to see them because of the light
and viewing geometry. The others could be that they�re
distorted or eroded or not there, but we just don�t know
yet. We�re also eagerly awaiting the additional data of
other areas of Cydonia which NASA�s Acting Director
of Solar System Studies Dr. Carl Pilcher has promised
us that NASA will try and capture in the next two imaging
passes on April 14 and April 23.

SPSR President and quantum physicist Dr. Horace
Crater of the University of Tennessee Space Institute
pointed out, The image does seem to be distorted and
stretched.  Previous Viking images show  a perfectly
round impact crater below and to the left of the �Face.�
In the most recent JPL image, this crater is decidedly
oval, so the image will have to be rectified to meet the
known geometric properties of previous NASA images.

Members of the SPSR,  an association of scientists,
some of whom have been studying the features of the
Cydonia region of Mars for over twenty years, recently
released the results of two decades of Mars anomaly
research in a new book, The Case for the Face.
It includes scientific and statistical studies that suggest
that there is a high probability that a number of the
features in the Cydonia region are "nonrandom and
possibly artificial in nature. We are not aware of any
natural processes here on Earth that can explain what
we have encountered in Cydonia so far, states McDaniel.

While we are both pleasedand perplexed with the long
awaited new data from Cydonia, McDaniel states, we
encourage the entire scientific community to join with
the SPSR in using standard scientific analytical
techniques before announcing conclusions about the
area�s possible artificial nature. With the release of new
images by JPL, SPSR plans to conduct an intensive
multi-disciplinary analysis of the data in order to
understand what, if anything, might have once occurred
at Cydonia. It is the intention of SPSR to make these
results available to the media in a timely, accurate, and
responsible manner.

The SPSR�s membership of 25 scientists includes 14
PhDs, the authors of every peer-reviewed scientific
paper on the subject, one of the leading Mars meteorite
researchers in the country, a member of the former
National Commission on Space, a quantum physicist at
the University of Tennessee Space Science Institute, a
noted archaeologist, a Fellow of the Royal Astronomical
Society, a former member of the NASA astronaut corps,
university professors, as well as credentialed individuals
from the fields of space and planetary science, geology,
anthropology, cartography, computer science, image
interpretation, medicine and philosophy.

NOTE:
Dr. Mark Carlotto will be joining the UFO Forum
for a live chat on Tuesday,  April 7th at 6pm, PT.
The chat is available at http://forums.msn.com/ufo

The Briefing Room chat can be accessed by any IRC
client. The chat server name is publicchat.msn.com
and the room or channel name is #briefing.







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                         Re: Cydonia image available

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:38:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 16:39:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Cydonia image available

>>From kferrand@rocketmail.com Tue Apr  7 08:32:29 1998
>Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 05:21:33 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Kerry Ferrand <kferrand@rocketmail.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Cydonia image available
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


>> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 16:32:17 -0700
>> From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
>> To: updates@globalserve.net
>> Subject: [Fwd: Cydonia image available]

>> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:51:18 -0400
>> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
>> From: Larry Wharton <wharton@climate.gsfc.nasa.gov>
>> Subject: Cydonia image available

>> The Mars Observer image of the Cydonia area on Mars is now
>> available on:

>> http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/target/CYD1/index.html

>> The face is clearly visable with higher resolution than the
>> previous image and it still is a perfect image of a face.  Also
>> now all sides of the DM pyramid is visable and the perfect
>> symmetry structure is preserved.

>Is this message a joke? In no way can the new images be taken as
>a "perfect image of a face" ..perfect image of a face after
>meeting both shotgun barrels perhaps..

>K


Well now, if'n that message ain't a joke, they's sure lookin'
at a different picture than I's lookin' at.

Bob








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   Apr > Apr 7

                        Water Found on Saturn's Moon

From: TotlResrch <TotlResrch@aol.com> [Kal Korff]
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:41:04 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 16:41:46 -0400
Subject: Water Found on Saturn's Moon


Dear List:

While Richard Hoagland and other farce on Mars types are busy
trying to rationalize NASA's recent images that gut their
favorite theory, the exploration and legitimate scientific
understanding of our universe is priceless nonetheless.

Enclosed is an article I found last night after watching the
wretched UPN "Danger", over-hyped special, and thought I would
just share it.

It will be interesting in future years to see how this
develops...let's hope that Hoagland and Company do not exploit
this discovery for the PseudoScientific cause.

Enjoy!
Hastily,
Kal

Water Found on Saturn's Moon

LONDON (AP) - Europe's infrared space observatory has discovered
water in many unexpected places - including a moon of Saturn -
raising expectations of life elsewhere in the universe, the
European Space Agency said today. The discovery of water vapor in
the atmosphere of Titan, Saturn's largest moon, may indicate that
conditions there duplicate those that gave birth to life on
Earth, the agency's director of science said.








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                                Posting Rules

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 07:58:35 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 07:58:35 -0400
Subject: Posting Rules

ebk


                            Posting Rules


       To help current and future readers of UFO UpDates' posts and
       the UFO UpDates Instant Archive software at:

                   http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates

       please observe the following rules when posting to the List.


 1.    Line-length

       Please make your lines no more than 70 characters long

------------------------This line is 70 characters---------------------

       Longer lines are wrapped by various pieces of software along the Net
and leave awkward
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 2.    Attribution

       When responding to a message from the List, _always_ include the
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                >Date: 01 Jan 97 00:00:01 EST
                >From: Genghis@mukluk.com <Bob Bobberts>
                >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
                >Subject: UFO UpDate: Grays are Grey Area

       Again - it's at the beginning of the 'body' of the message you
       are responding to.

 3.    Quoting

       _Always_ quote from the message to which you are responding.

        Quotes should come _before_ you key your response.

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       Keep quoted material from previous messages to a minimum:  Just
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       Messages that do not utilize the required quoting protocol
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                     ------------------------------------





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                            Re: Mars Face Report

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 17:22:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 09:15:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Face Report

NEARSIGHT INSTITUTE

OFFICIAL REPORT ON THE NASA/JPL MARS FACE PHOTOS

ISSUED APRIL 7, 1998

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE --

Detailed analysis of the new photo of the Cydonia region
of Mars by the technical staff of the Nearsight Institute
has revealed the following.

There is clear evidence that the Mars Face Anomaly has been
destroyed, most likely by nuclear explosions.  Analysis of
sand and wind patterns, erosion, and special Non-Remote Viewing
leads us to state categorically that this occurred on
August 14th of 1997.

It is our belief that in their intense desire to hide the
evidence of advanced civilization on Mars the government of
the USA, probably with the help and collusion of other major
world governments dispatched a fleet of nuclear missiles to
obliterate the site well before any possibility of clear
imaging.

Doubtless this plan was developed under the control of
the Illuminati, the New World Order and MJ-12, and it is
unlikely that even President Clinton is aware of this
deception.

We must all rise up and denounce this senseless destruction
of a major exoarcheological site.

Bob Shell, Director
Nearsight Institute







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                              Richard Hoagland

From: "Brett A. MArtin" <brettMart@desupernet.net>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:59:48 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 08:11:05 -0400
Subject: Richard Hoagland


>From: entropy@dagda.sunflower.com [Tom Genereaux]
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:37:26 +0000
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images
>
>
>> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 06:43:12 -0500
>> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>> From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images
>
>> >Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 11:29:35 -0400
>> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>> >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>> >Subject: Re: Mars Global Surveyor Images
>
>> >>Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 06:40:57 -0500
>> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>> >>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara
>
>> >>>Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 07:31:38 -0500
>> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>> >>>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>> >>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 7000 Year Old Observatory Found In Sahara
>
><massive snip to save bandwidth>
>
>> Thanks, Steve,
>
>> People do tend to over react when you step on their religion.
>
>> The first images of Cydonia are up on JPL's site. I've downloaded
>> the high res versions and magnified and enhanced them as much as is
>> practical, and I just don't see ANYTHING but a bunch of sand and
>> rock.
>
>> We need to do overlays of the old and new to see just what
>> features were being interpreted as "face", "pyramid", "fort",
>> etc.
>
>> Bottom line, there ain't no face.
>
>> Now it will be interesting to see how Dick Hoagland and others
>> "save face"!  Should be fun and games.

>> Bob

>Bob -

>Mike Malin has the MOC and Viking reference frames up on his website.
>The MOC frames are put into the context of the Viking frames.  As
>usual, he has also provided a detailed reference as to what image
>processing was done.

Hoagland was on the Art Bell radio show last night, saying that
the face was feline in appearence.

He obviosly hasn't seen the same pictures I have.

Check out Art Bell real audio archives, as Hoagland tries to
"save face" as you put it. Imagine spending 15 years on something
and having it all fall apart overnight!! Ouch!!

Sorry Dick!!

Brett
brettmart@desupernet.net

"Get serious, get informed" - me
_______________________________________________
Pennsylvania Region Director
Skywatch International, Inc.
http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/brettmart/index.html
_______________________________________________







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                              Re: Face on Mars

From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:54:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 09:11:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Face on Mars

For a really superb enhanced image, see
http://barsoom.msss.com/mars/global_surveyor/camera/images/4_6_face_release/face
_inverted.gif

For a good comparison with the Viking data, see
http://barsoom.msss.com/mars/global_surveyor/camera/images/4_6_face_release/inde
x.html








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               Re: UFORCE: STS-52 - Photos of Anomolous Object

From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:33:00 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 09:13:43 -0400
Subject: Re: UFORCE: STS-52 - Photos of Anomolous Object


> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 08:48:11 -0500
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: IUFORCE: STS-52 - Photos of Anomolous Object

> Since the object and the window frame appear to be in
> approximately equally sharp focus, it can't be all that far away.
> Most likely a chunk of space garbage, possibly even something
> which was ejected from the shuttle itself.

That was my take, too, Bob. Seemed utterly unremarkable.

Greg Sandow






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                Re: 'Danger In Our Skies: The New UFO Threat'

From: MB DRUMS <MBDRUMS@aol.com> [Mark Beecher]
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 17:54:22 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 09:24:50 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Danger In Our Skies: The New UFO Threat'

Hi Errol!

Just wanted to ask if anyone videotaped the UPN TV Network
Special - "Danger In Our Skies: The New UFO Threat" (regarding
the Mexico City UFO video) that aired April 6th 1998.  If so,
could they please contact me at...
mb drums@aol.com

I heard it was gonna be on, but didn't realize it was on last
nite and missed it!

I can trade a copy of that video, for one of many UFO videos I
have in my collection.

Thanks and hope to hear from someone.

Mark Beecher







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                         Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia]
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:37:07 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 11:59:09 -0400
Subject: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism


Despite what has been written on this list, if the Cydonia
objects turn out to be natural, most of the us will not take
this as our religion being "stepped on" and we will not be
devastated. Life will go on. I don't have a vested interest
in this matter. I just want to know!

The fact that people offer their opinions without doing
one ounce of research is shown by them already
coming to a conclusion on the matter of artificial
vs. natural.

People, do your research!!! At least SOME research.
Read ONE article from Stanley McDaniel and you
will realize that no matter what The Face turns out
to be, it is not the most important feature at Cydonia.
Even if it's natural, that doesn't say anything about
the other (Many) objects. What about "The Fort"?

Somebody wrote that there were no pyramids as Hoagland
predicted. Of course not, the pyramidal looking structures
are not located in the new photo of The Face. They are in
"The City". "The City" should be the next area
photographed next week. This is where the aritifical
vs. natural hypothesis will really be tested. Please
wait until you come to conclusions on any of these
photos. Mark Carlotto should be able to shed some
light on this matter tonight in the MSN chat room.
I value his opinion highly. He wrote:

"We�re also eagerly awaiting the additional data of
other areas of Cydonia which NASA�s Acting Director
of Solar System Studies Dr. Carl Pilcher has promised
us that NASA will try and capture in the next two imaging
passes on April 14 and April 23."

By the way, is it me or did the MGS photo of The Face
look pretty crappy for a hi-res image? Some of the
other photos on Malin's site look so much clearer.
Maybe it's me.

Joe in Tampa






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                      Re: The New Mars Facial Structure

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:23:16 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 11:57:14 -0400
Subject: Re: The New Mars Facial Structure

>Subject: UFO UpDate: The New Mars Facial Structure
>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 02:57:37 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:24:25 -0700 (PDT)
>> To: updates@globalserve.net
>> From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>> Subject: The new Mars facial structure

>> What they failed to discuss was the outline of the stucture, and
>> how impressive that looks as an artificial structure -- a beveled
>> strip whose outer edge is perfectly straight along the "side of
>> the head," very gradually curving into the "chin" outline, with
>> both edges of the upward-inclined "bevel" being parallel or
>> congruent. The odds against that occurring naturally are
>> phenomenal. Then, add the symmetry of the right-hand edge, at
>> least with respect to the outer edge of its beveled strip, and it
>> seemingly can't possibly be a natural formation.

>Actually it can quite easily be a natural formation, and the
>outline structure can easily be caused by either a syncline or
>slumped permafrost material, both of which are easily found
>around many features in both MGS and Viking photos.

>Saying that "the odds against that occurring naturally are
>phenomenal" is very misleading. On what basis are such odds
>calculated? Many geologic features, on Mars and elsewhere,
>contain relatively straight lines. These include

>Faults
>Synclines
>Anticlines
>Polygonal cracking in cooling lava
>Polygonal sorting in tundra terrains
>Collapsed lava tubes (i.e. rills)

>Of these, synclines, anticlines, and polygonal features tend to
>produce outlines and sometimes nested outlines with parallel
>lines, some of which, depending on erosion, can be curved or
>straight. Further, slumping of material from an isenberg can
>generate a parallel plateau which can be further modified by
>erosion.

Mark,

Tendencies in the direction you indicate do occur, I grant you.
Where the odds become infinitessimal is for these tendencies ever
to show up as perfectly, smoothly, congruently and symmetrically
as those of the "face's" outline.

Though I'm not from Missouri, you need to show me the best
example you can find of an "isenberg" surrounded by an otherwise
relatively featureless terrain with a linear-to-curved beveled
sidewall extending around it symmetrically, etc. Then perhaps I
can locate an aerial photo of it or topographical chart and check
it out.

The only other structures I know of that can compare at all,
outside of Earth's various constructed pyramids, are also in the
Cydonia region.

This latest photo shows that what had previously been thought to
be the inner edge of the "hairline" or "helmet," which parallels
or is congruent to the outer edge, actually extends down around
the bottom of the "chin."  This part hadn't been visible before,
and adds further odds against its being natural.

The idea of de-convoluting the picture, or reducing its
resolution to what exists in the 1976 pictures, is a good one,
but, as has been mentioned, its 3-D terrain heights need to be
determined so that the shadows can be deduced for the different
solar angles of 1976. For this, one or more further views of the
"face" from different vantage points but with similar resolution
need to be taken.  This may not be forthcoming.  But if it should
be, not only should a "face" supporter do the analysis and no
doubt find that it would not come close to replicating the 1976
shots, but so also a detractor, to see if he could close to
replicating it.  (I assume no expert of neutral opinion in
between could be found.)  Then after that, one would need to go
to the best 3 out of 5, etc.

Jim Deardorff







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                         Re: Cydonia image available

From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl>
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 20:49:31 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 12:37:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Cydonia image available


> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 12:48:10 -0700
> From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Cydonia image available

> Kerry Ferrand wrote:
>
> > Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 05:21:33 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Kerry Ferrand <kferrand@rocketmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Cydonia image available
> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> Re: Goddard employee post on symmetry of "The Face".

> > Is this message a joke? In no way can the new images be taken as
> > a "perfect image of a face" ..perfect image of a face after
> > meeting both shotgun barrels perhaps..

> Remember that this Goddard employee saw the *original* data
> downloaded from MGS.

> (He said with tongue planted firmly in cheek.)

> Seriously, sources inside NASA say that the image we viewed
> yesterday was the result of bombardment of "The Face" by SDI
> energy weapons much the same as Napoleon's troups took shots at
> the Sphinx nose.

> Seriously (really this time), methinks Mr. Wharton was having
> some fun with Vortex listserver members. Obviously, he nailed me
> as I realized upon seeing the first contrast-enhanced versions of
> the MGS data.

> BTW, I still want to see "The Fort" reimaged!

> Terry


Hi there,

I want to comment on some of the strange reviews I recieved on
the Cydonia-pictures. Now, I'm not saying I have all the answers,
I'm just a simple Dutch UFO-researcher ;-)

But I wonder howcome we only get to see a picture, allegedly of
the "Face", that is is taken in such a position that tells us
really zip!

As you probably noticed there is a clear crater, close to the
left side of the face in the Viking-pictures, well now, in the
MGS-pictures the alleged "Face" is photografed in such an angle
that it's quite difficult to make out wether it really IS the
face-like structure. And why doesn't anybody wonder why we didn't
get to see any pictures of the "pyramids"?

Another thing that I noticed on the picture we got to see on the
evening news (I video-taped it so I could take a closer look at
it) is the fact that the outside band-like structure of the
"Face" really was to low and to flat and smooth compared by the
initial viking-pictures?

I really would like here the opinion of any one out there on
these issues!

Greetings,

Andy Denne
Abduction & Ufo Research Association (AURA)
Nijmegen, Holland
aura.aa@wxs.nl






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                            Re: The Cydonia thing

From: "Paul Hunter" <gscribe@thefree.net>
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 98 21:42:20 PDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 12:39:38 -0400
Subject: Re: The Cydonia thing

Have I been looking at the images differently to everyone else?

I'm no scientist, but what I downloaded last night from NASA's
site was accompanied by text which said that the image was of the
Cydonia region, not the 'Face' itself.

As it's the region as a whole that people are interested in, to
my eyes the 'trench' seems to surround the Cydonia region as a
whole, not the 'Face'.

What people have been referring to as the 'Face' seems to me to
be the entire Cydonia region.

Maybe I'm wrong, but if you look about half way down the enclosed
'trench' area (down in a straight line from what some people seem
to have referred to as the right eye - i.e. 'right' from our
viewpoint - you see a strongly lit small object.

I've been supposing that this object is the 'Face'. Being
brightly is indicative of height to my mind; also it is only lit
on one side, as per Viking pictures, although the shadow angle is
different

If you print out the relevant section of the 'strip', i.e. this
'trench enclosed' 'footprint shaped' area, & then turn it
clockwise by about 90 degrees I think you may see a (quite low
resolution) of the whole Cydonia region FROM THE ANGLE MOST OF US
ARE USED TO SEEING IT, that is with the 'face' looking at us.

I did this & I get quite a good correlation with the placement of
other Cydonia region objects, although because the resolution is
so poor, you can only make out vague bumps & shapes, whereas in
the enhanced Viking pictures you can see the 'D&M pyramid' etc.

Perhaps I've got this all wrong, but if not, you heard it here
first! :)

If by any chance I'm right, this would explain why NASA have
promised better resolution imaging in future passes.

Also, if I'm right, someone at NASA might be laughing up his or
her sleeve at this successful 'misdirection' of presenting the
image at the 'wrong' (unexpected) angle.

Paul










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                Re: DISPATCH # 90 -- the weekly newsletter of

From: ParaScope <ParaScope@AOL.COM>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 22:15:48 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 12:33:56 -0400
Subject: Re: DISPATCH # 90 -- the weekly newsletter of

DISPATCH # 90 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope

S O M E T H I N G   S T R A N G E   I S   H A P P E N I N G

4/9/98

Quote of the Week

"Now anybody with a computer is a newspaper."

-- Warner Bros. marketing chief Chris Pula, decrying the low barriers to
publication on Internet fan sites, which ruin studio marketing plans for
multi-million-dollar films such as �Batman & Robin.�

-----------------------

Rant of the Week: �Diplomatic Contacts With An Alien Power�

Every week we pick the wackiest, scariest, nastiest or funniest rant from the
hundreds of letters received by us here at ParaScope headquarters, and present
it to you as our Rant of the Week. This week, �Timmy� details a unique theory
that the �Face on Mars� was destroyed by aliens to aid in an ongoing cover-up
of evidence of Martian monuments. Enjoy.

�At this stage we would like to advance the theory that the picture is
genuine; the location is correct, and it�s the mountain itself which has
changed. That would be the least detectable cover-up. No one from NASA, JPL,
or MSS would have to be in on the conspiracy. But it would require the
complicity of an agency able to go to Mars and blast the mountain. However we
know "they" operate on Mars. There was a UFO in the doctored Pathfinder
picture; several Mars probes have been lost in suspicious circumstances; a
Russian astronaut confirmed that the last frame from their phobos probe showed
a very large UFO.

�This theory requires that there be ongoing diplomatic contacts with the alien
power. Someone had to explain to them that public pressure meant that the MSG
was going to target the face, and that in order to protect the Big Lie it was
essential that the face not look like a face by the time the probe reached it.
It must have been explained to them that the damage inflicted on the mountain
should be concentrated on the right hand side which was under shadow in the
first pictures. They must have agreed, and carried out the deliberate
destruction of the monument. We can probably date this meeting of man and
alien to around the time that NASA stopped resisting demands that the face be
targeted, and agreed to send the MGS to Cydonia.

�To the deceivers and liars we can only say: you had the opportunity to
present the reality of extra-terrestrial intelligence to the general public in
a totally non-threatening way, in the form of a relic of an extinct
civilisation. You had the chance and you wimped-out! Do you really think you
can keep the lid on this forever?�

------

All rants are printed �as is,� with spelling and grammar goofs left
uncorrected. Some rants may be edited for brevity or clarity, to the extent
such a thing is possible. If you�ve got a rant you�d like to share, send it to
pscplady@aol.com with �possible rant� in the subject line of your letter.

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Opening Up the X-Files

You've watched and wondered for years, but the answers were always just out of
reach. Finally, ParaScope delivers the elusive answers to all your questions
about the mysteries behind The X-Files. In conjunction with Fox Interactive,
ParaScope is offering our online readers a chance to win a copy of "X-Files:
Unrestricted Access," the new CD-ROM that inside the secret files from the
smash hit Fox television show and lets you recreate the world of Scully and
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Conspiracy Newsline and Daily Dose features. Among the articles you'll want to
check out:

NASA Revisits Cydonia; Will the "Face" Show Up?

On April 6, 1998, the Mars Global Surveyor began photographing the Cydonia
region of the planet Mars as part of its ongoing mission to map the surface of
the Red Planet. Launched in 1996, the Mars mission hit the headlines last year
when it sent down the Mars Pathfinder to the planet's surface. Now exobiology
buffs and UFOlogists are waiting to see if the Global Surveyor will cast new
light on the much-debated "Face" on Mars. Is it a monument built by
extraterrestrials, or just a natural -- but very unusual -- rock formation?
Join ParaScope as we check out the newest pix of this controversial anomaly!

--------------------

Junior Skeptic KO's Therapeutic Touch

When fourth-grader Emily Rosa had to come up with a science project idea in
1996, she had no idea it would end up being published in the Journal of the
American Medical Association. Emily's project debunked one of the most
controversial alternative therapy methods of modern times: "therapeutic touch"
therapy, in which therapists lay their hands over the bodies of patients with
various illnesses and injuries, believing that the manipulation of "energy
fields" will promote healing or reduce physical pain. Despite a severe lack of
proven scientific value, TT is currently practiced in about 80 hospitals in
North America and taught in over 100 colleges and universities in 75
countries. Is this therapy so bogus that even a child can debunk it? Enigma
editor D. Trull has the details on the Junior Skeptic.

--------------------

UFO Roundup

Get the latest ufology news and sighting reports, courtesy of Joseph Trainor's
UFO Roundup! Florida UFO flap enters third week; JARVIS team tracks orbs over
Lake Ontario; anomalous painting found beneath Roman ruins; black helicopter
seen by ufologist and witness in New Jersey; silver sphere UFOs seen in
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                     Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

From: Mike Morton <morton@spdc.ti.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:51:30 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 12:29:49 -0400
Subject: Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face


> Subject: My Conclusion on the Mars Face.
> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 98 02:01:20 -0500
> From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com>
> To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>

> I have concluded from image studies that the Mars images
> of today most certainly and without doubt is the actual
> area of the face. What you see is what you get.

> NASA has played no game. There ain't no face, there
> ain't no pyramids, there ain't nothing there to convince
> me that that there is anything but natural formations.
>
> For those who may doubt, I will soon post my image studies
> and you can draw your own conclusions.

> ~Pat~

Of Course there aren't any pyramids in the new picture the
Pyramids are a few miles away frmo the face. All the media
attention has been wrongfully saying the face was supposedly
surrounded by pyramids....NOT so. The pyramids have not been
photographed yet!

As for the face yes I too beleive they photographed the correct
region and it is in fact a natural formation. But as some have
always held...myself included...was that the face was most
probably the best candidate to be an actual "natural" formation.
Once they show the pyramids in the "City" and the "D&M pyramid"
then the case can be closed...but as it stands right now....this
is far from over.

just my opinion
Mike
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
= = = =

                               _____..---========+*+==========---.._____
  ______________________ __,-='=====____  =================== _____=====`=
 (._____________________I__) - _-=_/    `---------=+=--------'
     /      /__...---===='---+---_'
    '------'---.___ -  _ =   _.-'
                   `--------'
"We are but visitors on this rock....hurtling through time and space at 66,000
miles per hour....tethered to a burning sphere by an invisible force....in an
unfathomable universe...."







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                     Re: 'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real

From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com> [Robert Gates]
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:06:26 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 12:32:19 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real


>  Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:07:49 -0500 (CDT)
>  From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net>
>  To: updates@globalserve.net
>  Subject: Re: 'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real

>  > Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 22:09:27 -0800
>  > From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
>  > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>  > Subject: Vatican Says ET Contacts Real

>  > This is from http://www.sightings.com

>  > Vatican Admits On National
>  > TV That ET Contact IS REAL
>  > From Ross Dowe
>  > 4-4-98


>  > Monsignor Corrado Balducci, a Vatican theologian insider close to
>  > the Pope has gone on national Italian television five times in
>  > recent months to proclaim that extraterrestrial contact is a real
>  > phenomenon.

>  This story is curious enough to me that I decided to contact the
>  director of the Vatican Observatory in Arizona, forwarding him a
>  copy of the post, to see if I could get any reaction or leads
>  into the Vatican on this story.  I suspect the result will be one
>  of:

>  1. No response at all
>  2. A "No comment"
>  3. "You gotta be kidding" (phrased diplomatically or not)
>  4. "We are not the ones to contact"
>     (with or without an alternative provided).
>  5. "Yep, its true" (well, bowl me over)

>  I'll forward any response I get on to the list.

>  By the way, I would suggest to others in the list, that if you
>  know anyone in Catholic Church hierarchy in a position to comment
>  on this, that you also forward inquiries on this post.  Surely
>  if we poke around enough, we can get a comment from someone.

>  -Brian Cuthbertson

What will happen if the story is denied (or no comment, or
ignored, or otherwise)  is all the purveyors of this tale will
claim conspiracy/coverup to save face.

Have you ever heard anybody who spreads these storys on the
Internet later come back and say "Well I was deceived"  or "I was
full of crap" or "my source was wrong?"

Cheers,
Robert






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                       Re: [M-TRAC - NPAA] Face image

From: harald hornung <harald_hornung@bc.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 11:44:14 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 17:07:18 -0400
Subject: Re: [M-TRAC - NPAA] Face image

Hello everyone :

I'm usually a reader and not a talker on UFO UpDates but I just
wanted to have my say this time.

Granted I'm no expert, just a someone who takes an interest  and
thinks their own thoughts!

I just want to suggest that we all practise caution before making
any hasty judgements on the pictures from Cydonia. For one thing
they are not all that clear, there appears to be a wispy cloud,
or maybe a reflection on the the most important part of the
image.(where the face should be!!) Could it be airbrushed,
even?!!

Secondly, we did not see the images exactly as they appear
straight from Mars, so there is a possibility that they have been
made less distinct, maybe !!

I know, you're thinking - I'm true believer who can't take the truth!
Well, no its not that, sure it would be the story of the century if
it was really there, but we are so manipulated these days in what
to believe and disbelieve I would preach caution even if the "Face"
was plainly there surrounded by pyramids etc.

I think we still have along way to go with this, don't make any
quick judgements. It could, in my opinion, still go either way.
Are we being told the truth? Or have we in the past been the
victims of over excited media anxious to sell their magazines
etc.?  Maybe, we are too gullable or too cynical! Whichever!

Thanks to listening to my feelings - what do you think ?







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                          'Indiana' Explained... ?

From: "K. Young" <task@fuse.net>
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 08:32:22 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 17:17:56 -0400
Subject: 'Indiana' Explained... ?

Indiana EXPLAINED... ?

Shortly after 2:30 p.m. on Monday, April 6, 1998, I made contact

with a Lt. Col. Soldner of the 122 Fighter Unit of the Indiana
Air National Guard.

Soldner did not have any knowledge of the reported 300+ UFO
sightings received by the news department of the Evansville,
Indiana FOX affiliate. He knew well military procedures utilizing
flares as well as MOA zones and boundaries.  He stated the
following:

The closest MOA to the Evansville, Indiana region is the RED
HILLS MOA, which is an air-to-air operating area, typically used
both day and night.  It is not at all unusual, while practicing
defensive maneuvers in this zone, for ANG aircraft to �pop
flares� in multiple or single releases.  The Red Hills MOA is
situated in parts of Southern Illinois and also extending into
the southeastern part of Indiana, close to Evansville

The 122nd Fighter Unit out of Ft. Wayne, Indiana, was not
operating in the RED HILLS MOA during the time-frame of the
reported sightings. Soldner suggested that a visiting operation,
possibly from out of state, could certainly have been in action
within the MOA zone during this time period. �Chances are that it
would be one of two units, the SPRINGFIELD, Illinois unit and
Terre Haute units, both using F-16 aircraft,� Soldner said.

There is also an Air to Ground training facility called CAMP
ATTERBERRY (sp?), and operations at this range includes daytime
air to ground operations.  Launched from there is a
rocket/projectile nick-named 'Smokey Sam,' which is like a huge
bottlerocket that fires up into the air. Soldner said that flares
are sometimes popped there as well.

The flares themselves burn very brightly for 2 to 3 seconds then
trail out.  There are no parachutes on the flares, he said.

When asked if the 300+ UFO sightings received by the Evansville
television station would warrant a matter of concern to the ANG,
Soldner added: �That seems to be information within public
domain, and probably would not concern us. We can�t speak for any
of the sightings or reported sightings.�

When informed of reports involving the objects spotted during
adverse weather conditions, Soldner said: �We would even avoid
FLYING in adverse weather, and that would include anyone.�

Soldner added that maneuvers utilizing flares are not permissible
outside of MOA zones. �It�s pretty straightforward as to where
we�re allowed to employ flares, we have to be in certain
airspace.�

When asked if ANG units could be hot-dogging and toying with the
public, Soldner stated: �I would never say that�s a
possibility.�

Soldner went on to add that the flares stay lit �real bright� for
about 3 or 4 seconds at the most, and then trail off.  �They
don�t put on a good visual display,� he declared.

When asked about my theory of a joint discharge of flares from
multiple jets flying in a V-shaped formation, Soldner said it was
not likely.

�The coordinated discharge of flares while in formation is not a
routine practice,� he said.

Major Houser with the Terre Haute, Indiana Air National Guard was
contacted, and acknowledged that Terre Haute ANG units were
flying in the Red Hills MOA during the last week of March.

Houser also added that the Terre Haute units were utilizing
flares in their maneuvers.

Houser added that their flying was not at low elevations, and
stated: "We can't go to a low elevation in RED HILLS anyway."

Houser said that their operations do not extend outside of the
MOA zones.

Their exercizes do not use parachute flares, and he didn't know
the burn time of the flares involved.

He said that these activities will not fly in adverse weather
conditions.  "We don't fly in storms, but sometimes go around
them."

Houser recalled that when the flights returned to base, a phone
call was received at the air tower from a person inquiring about
the flares.
This caller was from a neighboring county, possibly Dearborne.

He said that a record of visiting units into the Red Hills zone
is available through the Freedom of Information Act.

        Comment:

The Terre Haute ANG said they were flying in the last week of
March and using flares.  This statement alone stands as a viable
explanation to address the concerns of over 300 callers to an
Evansville, Indiana television station, who reported what they
percieved to be UFOs.  It is my belief that the activities of
F-16 jets from the Terre Haute ANG outfit explains a majority, if
not all, of the reported UFO sightings.

What is at issue now is to analyze this event, and isolate the
reported UFO sightings which are not instantly applicable within
the flare explanation. These reports must be reviewed to
determine the following:

        1.  Objects/lights/flares spotted within or under adverse
            weather conditions/into the wind
        2.  Objects/lights/flares at unmistakably low elevations
        3.  Objects/lights/flares sighted outside of the boundary
            restrictions for the RED HILLS MOA zone.
        4.  Duration or burn-time of reported flare/phenomenon, as
            indicated above, is for only 3 to 4 seconds, using no
            parachutes.  The reported phenomenon was described, in
            some instances, as being visible for 3 to 4 minutes.
        5.  Objects/lights/flares sighted in formation, such as
            triangle or V-shape.  A 'multiple release' flare
            discharge could lace the sky with flares in a straight
            line or even a V-shape, if the jet in question performs
            a banking maneuver while discharging.  However, it was
            stated that coordinated flare discharges from multiple
            jets 'is not a routine practice.'

Regional investigators within the area of these sightings are
encouraged to coordinate with me to address the conflicting
characteristics in these reports.

In the process of investigating the most recent spate of UFO
sightings from Indiana, I have spoken with several ANG officers
from Peoria and Springfield, Illinois, Ft. Wayne and Terre Haute,
Indiana, as well as Ohio Air National Guard persons.  Any time I
have asked the ANG operatives about the possibilities of their
pilots 'hot-dogging' or 'screwing with the public' by
deliberately flying outside of MOA zones, dropping flares at low
elevations and trying to generate UFO sightings, they become
hotly defensive, always refusing to answer directly, and
deferring my question to a supervisor or other public relations
hireling.

In evaluation of this matter, it seems as if the final answer is
clear: flares are a factor.  If the contradictory reports are to
be considered, then we must leave open the continuing
possibilities that the witnesses are totally mistaken in their
reportage of a dubious, non-existent phenomenon in the face of a
totally conventional explanation.

Filed;
April 7, 1998
KENNY YOUNG
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/task/






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                            Re: Mars Face Report

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:40:52 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 17:20:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Face Report


> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 17:22:42 -0400
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mars Face Report

> NEARSIGHT INSTITUTE
> OFFICIAL REPORT ON THE NASA/JPL MARS FACE PHOTOS
> ISSUED APRIL 7, 1998

> There is clear evidence that the Mars Face Anomaly has been
> destroyed, most likely by nuclear explosions. Analysis of
> sand and wind patterns, erosion, and special Non-Remote Viewing
> leads us to state categorically that this occurred on
> August 14th of 1997.

<snipped>

> Bob Shell, Director
> Nearsight Institute

All I can say is ... LOL!

  __            Where's the kaboom?  There was
 /\_|     supposed to be an earth shattering kaboom!!
(/:.--
 /_...-"-.
( )_...._/
|'(  o o|
 \ \ _.'\          Chris A. Rutkowski
  /  :\/[___]==-   rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca
  (.'_|-8'         www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/7998
 <'8||\>
   |::|__          Box 1918
   |:.__)          Winnipeg, Manitoba  R3C 3R2
   (_)             Canada








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                     Re: 'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 11:33:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 17:39:13 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real

>From: "Keith Woodard" <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real
>Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:23:02 -0700

>> From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com> [Robert Gates]
>> Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 23:02:24 EDT
>> To: updates@globalserve.net
>> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Vatican Says' ET Contacts Real

><snip>

>> Chuck Shramek and his "companion object following hale Bopp" tale,  which
>he  later disowned to the press.

><snip>

>I missed this "disowning."  Anyone have a quote and/or reference?

>Keith

If memory serves, Shramek acknowledged that the "companion" he
had questioned was actually a faint star that wasn't on the star
chart he was using at the time.  Initially, I believe that he
only posted (or sent) the image to others on the "net" to help
him identify it.  Because he was being hounded by everyone and
their brother regarding the "companion", which quickly took on a
life of its own on the Internet, his responses became (IMHO)
somwhat defensive.







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                            Re: Mars Face Report

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 09:55:29 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 17:31:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Face Report

>Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 17:22:42 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mars Face Report

>NEARSIGHT INSTITUTE

>OFFICIAL REPORT ON THE NASA/JPL MARS FACE PHOTOS

>ISSUED APRIL 7, 1998

>FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE --

>Detailed analysis of the new photo of the Cydonia region
>of Mars by the technical staff of the Nearsight Institute
>has revealed the following.

<snipped>

>Doubtless this plan was developed under the control of
>the Illuminati, the New World Order and MJ-12, and it is
>unlikely that even President Clinton is aware of this
>deception.
>
>We must all rise up and denounce this senseless destruction
>of a major exoarcheological site.
>
>Bob Shell, Director
>Nearsight Institute

Bob-

Care should probably be taken to make sure that everyone is aware
that your tongue is firmly planted in your cheek.  I suspect that
someone will probably forward this report from the "Nearsight
Institute" as the gospel and give it their own "spin" as they
distribute it to the world via the "net".

In spite of the images and the proof that they allegedly contain,
there are those who have devoted years to this research, and
there will be great resistance to their acceptance of any "proof"
that disagrees with their beliefs.  It would not surprise me to
see some of the proponents issue theories very similar to the one
outlined above.

Steve








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                       Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

From: John <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:19:38 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 17:42:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

>From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia]
>Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:37:07 EDT
>To: UASR@MyList.net, updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

Tampa Joe writes,

>Somebody wrote that there were no pyramids as Hoagland
>predicted. Of course not, the pyramidal looking structures
>are not located in the new photo of The Face. They are in
>"The City". "The City" should be the next area
>photographed next week. This is where the aritifical
>vs. natural hypothesis will really be tested. Please
>wait until you come to conclusions on any of these
>photos.

After I read Hoaglands original tome on the Mars face I
was never too impressed with his arguement about
that structure being a representation of a human visage.
I always thought that it was pretty much the same thing
as when you look at a cloud and make out familiar shapes.
I just never thought much of the "face" to begin with.

But, . . .I also believe that the strongest arguement for
the existance of actual artificial structures is in the
so-called 'City.' The pyramidal type structures that exist
there _are_ the ones that everyone should be concentrating
on. Those pyramidal shapes (the angles on the structures)
cannot have been created by any natural means. (ie; wind
and water erosion.)

I'm waiting for the new photos of those areas (the City)
before I dismiss it completely. I agree Joe, we all ought
to hold of passing final judgement until _all_ of those
features have been photographed and studied.

I will anxiously await the analysis reports of those images
from the director of the 'Nearsight Institute' who once
confided in me, . . .

"I do not avoid women Mandrake, I merely deny them my essence!"

In the purity and essence of our precious natural fluids,
I await further developments. <G>

John Mandrake Velez ;-)








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                Re: 'Danger In Our Skies: The New UFO Threat'

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 11:22:01 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 17:35:49 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Danger In Our Skies: The New UFO Threat'

>From: MB DRUMS <MBDRUMS@aol.com> [Mark Beecher]
>Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 17:54:22 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: "Danger In Our Skies: The New UFO Threat"

>Hi Errol!

>Just wanted to ask if anyone videotaped the UPN TV Network
>Special - "Danger In Our Skies: The New UFO Threat" (regarding
>the Mexico City UFO video) that aired April 6th 1998.  If so,
>could they please contact me at...
>mb drums@aol.com

>I heard it was gonna be on, but didn't realize it was on last
>nite and missed it!

>I can trade a copy of that video, for one of many UFO videos I
>have in my collection.

>Thanks and hope to hear from someone.

>Mark Beecher

If UPN follows their normal pattern, I would suspect that the
show will be repeated in 4 to 6 weeks.  If I see any reference to
it's airing again, I'll try to make sure the 'List' is aware of
it.


Steve







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                            Alfred's Odd Ode #237

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 09:47:39 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 17:34:29 -0400
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #237

Apology to MW #237 (For April 8, 1998)

Consider anew: our society swallows us, up, with distracting
detail. Consider how it threatens us with what will happen if we
*fail*. Consider it a tyranny, convenient if you please -- not
happy 'till you're brought to heel, and bruising up your knees.

And know it gets away with it -- will _not_ be brought to bear!
And know that it is hiding *stuff*  in spots -- oh, here and
there. And know the real reason is a shadow of the past, when
kings and priests ruled jealously; not well =85 but sweet, and
fast.

What's this to do with UFOs our EBK may task <g>! Rather, who
controls our blinders, covers up, I'd rather ask. Who decides the
subterfuge? Who decides what hides? Who's it sets the tone for
shame; who sullies and derides? Who's it puts Dan Rather's tongue
so firmly in his cheek? Who's it touts religion? Who decides when
you can speak? Who's the one that dictates just how much you're
going to pay? Who decides design that fails; who complicates your
day?

Would you have a billion dollars if a million went without? Would
you live in castled mountains if your pleasure curried doubt?
=85Deny our mass salvation to continue like a god -- a road to hell
for innocents you give a wink and nod?  Would you trade your
common place for riches if it kept us from the stars? Would you
drive a family homeless owning million dollar cars? Would you
wallow in your excess like the privileged and elite while knowing
you're the cause of tired, unshod, dirty feet?

We worry that the aliens are here with cruel agendas. We worry
'cause we know that we're poseurs and crass pretenders. We worry
that we're found out. We worry for our gods. We worry that
reality may poke, or jam, and prod.  We worry that our ill got
gain on which we're so dependent, is snatched away from clutching
hands that drip with blood, resplendent.

Any wonder that we're lonely, and a little sick at heart, and
feeling rather ready for a better second start? Any wonder why
we're slighted by the strange lights in the sky? Any wonder that
the space folk won't *come out* and tell us "Hi"?  Any wonder why
they're shifting in the dark behind the clouds. Any wonder that
they fear us when we give them cause right now.

Why should they really fear us? We show no self restraint! Why
should they really fear us? We stress our ecosystems faint. Why
should they really fear us when our _own_ we disadvantage, so
consistent when we screw each other over for percentage. Why
should they really fear us? We breed like squalid flies! So many
that it matters not that thousands starve and die. Why should
they really fear us when we teach our children lies that we couch
in holy history we make up  -- it's all contrived.

It's us to do the changing, not the EBE or grey. It's us that
needs the oil change, it's us to save the day. It's us that needs
to grow up. It's us that needs to try. It's us that needs drop
the scales, nay, rip them from our eyes!

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

I'm blindfolded, and tied on the trestle. I think I hear a train
coming -- perhaps feel it in the metal tracks.  All the cultural
voices say the way is clear -- no train. This is the same bunch
that absolves criminal behavior in our closed institutions . . .
I wonder. . .


--
Explore the Alien View?

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake.







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                     Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 15:29:22 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 18:49:59 -0400
Subject: Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

>Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:51:30 -0500 (CDT)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Mike Morton <morton@spdc.ti.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: My Conclusion on the Mars Face


>Of Course there aren't any pyramids in the new picture the
>Pyramids are a few miles away frmo the face. All the media
>attention has been wrongfully saying the face was supposedly
>surrounded by pyramids....NOT so. The pyramids have not been
>photographed yet!

>As for the face yes I too beleive they photographed the correct
>region and it is in fact a natural formation. But as some have
>always held...myself included...was that the face was most
>probably the best candidate to be an actual "natural" formation.
>Once they show the pyramids in the "City" and the "D&M pyramid"
>then the case can be closed...but as it stands right now....this
>is far from over.

>just my opinion
>Mike


Ok, Mike,

And everyone else who is talking about "the city", "the fort",
"pyramids" and so on.

I will once again go way out on a limb and predict that there is
no city, no fort, and no pyramids.  Once the area is photographed
what will be seen is a bunch of ugly-ass rocks and barren
desert.

I can't wait.

Bob







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                 Re: NASA Images Could Solve 'Face' Mystery

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:10:21 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 18:51:40 -0400
Subject: Re: NASA Images Could Solve 'Face' Mystery

>From the Washington Post. URL:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/science/daily/april98/mars
07.htm

*******


NASA Images Could Solve 'Face' Mystery



Mars, Then and Now


1976: A photograph shows what appears to be a face on the surface of
Mars.  (NASA photo via AP)
1998: A more detailed photo of the area appears to show a mesa.  (NASA
photo via AP)


By Kathy Sawyer
Washington Post Staff Writer

Tuesday, April 7, 1998; Page A1


NASA scientists yesterday wiped the "face" off Mars and with it, the
belief in some quarters that it was the remnant of an ancient Martian
civilization.

At least they hope they did.

More than 20 years ago, one of the U.S. Viking space probes took a
photograph of what appeared to some people to be a monumental sculpture
of a humanoid face, staring skyward from a hilly desert region of Mars
known as Cydonia. Since then, the Martian "sphinx" has generated
tabloid headlines, true believers and questions. For some, its stony
stare carried intimations of intelligent beings at work on the Red
Planet and led more recently to "X-Files"-style suspicions of a U.S.
government conspiracy to keep this knowledge from the public.

NASA yesterday released images taken over the weekend by the Mars
Global Surveyor spacecraft, which is orbiting the Red Planet on a
mapping mission. The pictures show the same site in 10 times the detail
and with the sun shining from the opposite direction, compared with the
1976 image.

It's a mesa, scientists have concluded, once again. And the only
sculptor at work there is nature. "There will always be a few
die-hards, but I think the American people will look at this and wonder
what all the fuss was about," said Surveyor chief scientist Arden L.
Albee of the California Institute of Technology.

"Anyone who has flown in an airplane will recognize that this is
natural," rather than an artificially constructed feature, he added.
"You could see [something like it] in many places on a flight from
Washington to L.A. It's not an unusual feature."

Albee said the new images, taken from 276 miles above the surface,
confirm previous NASA analysis indicating that the "face" is actually a
natural rock formation, an isolated mesa where ridges and gullies cast
shadows. The illusion of human features was produced by the combination
of light and shadow that prevailed when the original Viking picture was
taken on a July day in 1976.

The first Surveyor image of the region, which NASA posted on a Web site
in midafternoon (East Coast time), was a dark rectangle with a muddle
of lighter shapes, including what appear to be small impact craters, at
the location where the mile-wide face had appeared in the Viking image.
Subsequently, NASA posted clearer versions of the image.

Groups that believe in the "Case for the Face" (the name of a recent
publication that compiles 18 research papers on the issue) plan
exhaustive analysis of the new images in coming days and weeks, said
Stephen Bassett, of the Paradigm Research Group, a consultant for
leading advocates of the theory that the face is the unnatural product
of intelligent activity.

"There are many layers to this. This is going to be analyzed to death,"
he said. "At this point, there's nothing in that photo that leaps out
at you" to either confirm or eliminate the theory that the feature is
artificial. But he suggested that if someone had sculpted a face a mile
across, leaving it to weather as long as 2 million years, "getting
closer to it is not necessarily going to make it look more like a face."

In addition to extremely close scrutiny of the photos for such
signatures of artificiality as repeating patterns not found in nature
(fractal analysis), pro-face groups plan online chats and interviews
with experts. The new NASA images will be a topic of discussion at
gatherings such as the 10th annual Ozark UFO conference in Eureka
Springs, Ark., which begins Friday.

The supposed face has attracted the attention of engineers, computer
specialists and others with technical training, including some NASA
contract employees.

But some of the more extreme speculation has frustrated mainstream
scientists. Some face partisans have claimed to find a city to the
southwest of the face, complete with temples, fortifications and
monuments with an astronomical orientation.

And some have accused NASA of a vast coverup that included faking the
costly August 1993 failure of the $1 billion Mars Observer spacecraft
just as it arrived at Mars, so the agency could study the face
covertly. NASA scientists have consistently dismissed such a scenario
as not only outrageous but unnatural, against their own self-interest
and, in any case, impossible to pull off.

NASA's latest attempt to resolve the controversy goes only part of the
distance for true believers.

"The real issue is, 'What's the next photo,' " Bassett said. "We're all
waiting for them to take the city itself."


On the Web

*The Global Surveyor image of the controversial area (heavy traffic -
connection is slow)
*Past NASA images of the "face"
*NASA's "face" fact sheet
*NASA press release on the mission change
*Home page of an author who aims to prove scientifically that the
"face" is artificial


=A9 Copyright 1998 The Washington Post Company










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                          NASA's 'Face' Fact Sheet

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:13:30 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 18:56:30 -0400
Subject: NASA's 'Face' Fact Sheet

Go to

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/facts/HTML/FS-016-HQ.html

The links are preceded by asterisks.

Stig

*******

The "Face On Mars"

Background: The Viking Images

The Viking missions to Mars in the late 1970s produced more
information about the Red Planet than had been gathered in all
the previous centuries of study by Earth-bound astronomers and
observers. The primary mission of the Viking program was to
search for signs of life on the surface of Mars. Two landers
containing sophisticated biological laboratories studied soil
samples in a variety of tests which, it was hoped, would prove or
disprove the existence of life.

The results of these tests indicated that Mars contained no life,
at least at these landing sites. However, Viking gathered volumes
of data on the weather, soil chemistry and other surface
properties and mapped the surface using low-to-moderate
resolution cameras on the two orbiters.

Shortly after mapping began in 1976 an interesting image taken by
the Viking 1 Orbiter was received at the Jet Propulsion
Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., which contained a surface feature
resembling a human or ape-like face. The photo was immediately
released to the public as an interesting geological feature and
dubbed the "*Face on Mars." Shortly afterwards other photos of
the same area were taken, and some scientists believed that the
formation appeared to be a face due to the lighting angles as
seen from the Orbiter.


Origin Of Features Examined

Over the years, some people began to raise questions about the
origins of the features. A few ideas and theories arose
speculating that the features may have been built by aliens in
the distant past. These theories are based largely on the results
of computer photo enhancements and other analytical techniques
performed on the Viking images beginning in the early 1980s.

Most planetary geologists familiar with the set of photos,
however, concluded that the natural processes known to occur on
Mars -- such as wind erosion, Mars quakes, and erosion from
running water in the distant past -- could account for the
formation of the complicated fretted terrain of the Cydonia
region, including the face.

Because the entire data set includes only nine low-to-moderate
resolution photos, scientists say that there just is not enough
data available to justify what would be an extraordinary
conclusion that the features are not natural in origin (many
scientists question whether images alone would be enough to
settle the matter). Such a proven discovery of extraterrestrial
life or artifacts would be one of the greatest discoveries in
human history, and, as such, demand the most rigorous scientific
investigation.

However, despite the phenomenal nature of such a potential
discovery, no one in the scientific community -- either in the
U.S. or worldwide -- has ever proposed an investigation for a
mission to study these features. Until more data is gathered,
many scientists consider the probability that the features are
anything other than natural in origin are just too low to justify
the major expenditure of public funds which such an investigation
would entail (more on this below).

What is agreed on is that a greater number of high resolution
images of this area should be gathered. Following the failure of
the Mars Observer mission in August, 1993, NASA proposed a
decade-long program of Mars exploration, including orbiters and
landers. The program, called Mars Surveyor, would take advantage
of launch opportunities about every 2 years to launch an orbiter
and a lander to the Red Planet. The first mission, consisting of
an orbiter to be launched in 1996, will map the surface and take
high- and medium-resolution images of particular features on the
Martian surface that are of high interest. NASA intends to make
observations of the Cydonia region making the best effort
feasible, either with the first orbiter or on follow-on missions,
to obtain images of the "face" and nearby landforms.

Quite aside from the interest generated by these curious
features, Cydonia has long been regarded as an area of high
scientific importance, ever since the first detailed images were
returned by NASA's Viking spacecraft in the late 1970s. The
Cydonia region of Mars is part of the so-called fretted terrain,
a belt of landforms that circles Mars at about 30-40 degrees
North Latitude. In this region, the ancient crust of Mars has
been intensely eroded by weathering processes, leaving high
remnants of older crust surrounded by lower plains of eroded
debris.

The landforms of Cydonia resemble in some respects those of
terrestrial deserts, but they probably have been shaped by a
unique range of peculiarly martian agencies: wind, frost and
possibly running water in ancient times. Deciphering the
geological age and origin of this terrain will yield important
insights into the evolution of the martian surface, into the role
of ice and water in its development and into the nature of the
martian climate in times past.
=BF


Proposing Investigations


The selection of goals and scientific priorities for NASA to
undertake on future space science missions starts in the
scientific and academic communities, as well as within NASA.
Scientific associations, such as the National Academy of Science,
determine the research priorities in any given field of science.
For instance, the most important questions remaining about Mars
include gaining an understanding of the amount of water on the
planet; mapping the surface in detail to gain a complete
understanding of the geological processes, history and
composition; and gaining a global understanding of the
atmosphere, including climate and weather.

When NASA receives permission to proceed with a science mission,
the Agency publishes an Announcement of Opportunity (AO). The AO
solicits interest in providing high priority scientific
investigations and instruments that will be part of the new
mission. The AO receives the widest possible circulation
throughout the university and research communities and industry.

Proposals are submitted and reviewed through a competitive peer
review process. In this process, scientists from various
institutions and organizations evaluate each proposal's
scientific and technical merit, and then rank the relative merit
of each. NASA receives the reports of the review panels and makes
a final selection as to which instruments will be built and
actually flown. This rational selection process ensures that only
the most useful research, with a high probability of returning
good science, is done at taxpayer expense.

After selection, each Mars Surveyor Principle Investigator (PI)
team will develop its instrument, build it, test it and prepare
it for launch and the 10-month journey to Mars. They are also
charged with developing, testing, and using the software required
to properly calibrate their instrument's data. Most of the
scientists working on the various Mars Surveyor missions will
have several years invested in their instrument before the
spacecraft arrives at Mars and they can actually receive the bulk
of the data they have been waiting for.
=BF


Obtaining *Images of the "Face" and Other Planetary Data


Since the release and subsequent widespread circulation of the
'face' images, scientists and individual members of the public
have freely drawn their own conclusions about the nature and
origin of this feature. NASA encourages anyone seriously
interested in this topic to obtain the photo(s) and decide for
themselves, just as every day many hundreds of independent
researchers and scientists make use of NASA-provided data on a
variety of subjects.

The most noteworthy image of the 'face' feature is available to
the public, for a nominal fee, through Headquarters and JPL. A
photo catalogue can be provided to select images.

The phone numbers for ordering photo catologues are: HQ:
202/358-1900
JPL: 818/354-5011

All imaging data obtained by the Mars Surveyor program, as well
as other types of data, will be deposited in open data archives.
Two such archives widely used are the Planetary Data System
(PDS), an open archive accessible to thousands of scientists and
other individuals, and the National Space Science Data Center
(NSSDC) where images and other data will be readily available to
the general public (generally on CD-ROMs or as hard copy, as
appropriate), for a nominal charge that covers the materials and
time needed to produce the copies. For information about ordering
copies of NASA science mission images, including on CD-ROM
format, contact the NSSDC at:


National Space Science Data Center
Request Coordination Center
Goddard Space Flight Center
Greenbelt, MD 20771
Telephone: 301/286-6695


Listed below are the photo numbers of every image taken by Viking
of the 'face' feature and the surrounding Cydonia terrain. When
ordering from the data archive centers, refer to the Viking picno
(photo number).

<snipped, too hard to format here, Stig>


NASA Headquarters
Public Affairs Office
Washington DC 20546-001
Email: eweigel@hq.nasa.gov


Document: FS-1995-08-016-HQ
Modified: August 1995






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   Apr > Apr 8

                 UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:36:28 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 19:10:51 -0400
Subject: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

Hello All,

By coincidence the Martian Face picture got scheduled to be taken
and presented just a few hours before the UPN program, "Danger in
our Skies." So the "Face" has received a lot of attention but
UPN's rendition of the Aug. 6th Mexico City UFO has not.

From what I gather, the main alternative UPN presented to the
reality of that UFO event was the idea that it was a holographic
projection, put on by some U.S. military research group that
figured Mexico City and its smog was a good place to test it.

Now, it seems, any important UFO sighting, witnessed and
photographed/video-taped, is subject to that explanation,
especially if a light beam of any sort is seen to emanate from
the UFO.

Do we have someone on this list knowledgeable enough on
holographs to tell us about the feasibility of projecting such an
image?  Is a uniform distribution of smog that allows a
visibility of a couple miles sufficient?

Would it require the intersection of two laser beams to do the
trick? If so, how would that work?

I suspect there are quite a few good objections to the
holographic hypothesis, and I'd like to see them aired here. No
doubt it would take a good deal of extra effort just to get such
an image to suddenly accelerate up to a certain velocity, and
then maintain that constant velocity for a while.

The other alternative hypothesis to a genuine UFO, of course, is
that of a carefully crafted computer simulation with planted
witnesses acting out their stories.

Jim Deardorff







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                      Re: Water Found on Saturn's Moon

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 16:15:48 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 19:08:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Water Found on Saturn's Moon

> From: TotlResrch <TotlResrch@aol.com> [Kal Korff]
> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:41:04 EDT
> To: Updates@GLOBALSERVE.NET
> Subject: Water Found on Saturn's Moon

<snip>

> It will be interesting in future years to see how this
> develops...let's hope that Hoagland and Company do not exploit
> this discovery for the PseudoScientific cause.

> Enjoy!
> Hastily,
> Kal

> Water Found on Saturn's Moon

> LONDON (AP) - Europe's infrared space observatory has discovered
> water in many unexpected places - including a moon of Saturn -

It is, of course, a BIG leap of faith for scientists to suggest
that where there is water there may also be life anymore than
it is to suggest that where there is smoke and alcohol there is
an ET party going on.

We shouldn't pick on Hoagland when scientists themselves (who
have recently discovered that some brownish ice in Antartica
contains previously unknown microbes) now "see" microbes in the
brownish ice patterns on Europa, a moon of Jupiter.  Also, when
NASA itself uses the same popular names for features on Mars
that Hoagland, et. al. use (eg. Inca City, The Fort, etc.), it
promotes the PseudoScientific cause.

Nick Balaskas









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                    Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:42:40 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 19:14:12 -0400
Subject: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic

Received via "alt.alien.research" April 7 at 10.18 local time (GMT + 1
hour).

Stig

*******

Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 07:48:38 GMT
From: cybroid@nospam.worldnet.att.net (Brian)
Subject: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic
Message-ID: <6gclmu$5a0@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>


Two thirds of the data is missing!! Using a histogram, both
Richard Hoagland and Keith Rowland have determined that two
thirds of the data on the RAW image of Cydonia is missing! The
histogram shows that on a gray scale of a possible 256 shades of
gray, there is only 70-80 shades of gray on the image-two thirds
is missing!! Hoagland calls the picture CRAP and useless. Any
pictures made from the raw image are also missing two thirds of
the data. In simple terms, this means two thirds of the detail
are missing.

The question now is WHY.

--
Brian
cybroid@nospam.worldnet.att.net
To reply by email, remove nospam. from address








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                         Mars Face, yes it's there!

From: ATKMajic@iname.com, Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 00:46:17 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 19:41:46 -0400
Subject: Mars Face, yes it's there!

Received via "alt.paranet.ufo" April 7 at 10.51 local time (GMT + 1
hour). To view Fiontar McEoghan's latest results, go directly to

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/4470/fom.htm
Good luck!

Stig

*******

Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 20:10:21 -0400
From: PHD: Feanturi <ATKMajic@iname.com>
Subject: Mars Face, yes it's there!
Message-ID: <352AC06C.69A3C03@iname.com>


Hi All,

I've posted some images on the web that I think everyone needs to
see before deciding on the "Face" on Mars. The human eye is a
funny thing, and the tilt to the face formation makes it
particularly hard to discern the features. So, first I rotated
the image to the right 37 degrees, so the face is straight up and
down. It makes things much clearer.


If it was a face created by someone, it was clear from the image
that the right side had been damaged much worse than the left, so
I mirrored the left side onto the right, to see what it might
look like symmetrically, and was very shocked how clear it was.
Other than the rotation, and the mirroring, NO other alterations
were made. I think the results deserve a look, and some
consideration.

Let me know what you think:

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/4470/

Thanks,
Fiontar McEoghan

Please note, I'm not drawing any conclusions, but the results are
at least consistant with a face.

--
Signature:
PHD:Feanturi
ATKMajic@iname.com

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/4470/

[The above email address and URL are (most likely) permanent. You
should always be able to reach me there.]












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              Neg Reversal of Mars Images by NASA - Mistake or

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 23:30:44 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 19:23:17 -0400
Subject:  Neg Reversal of Mars Images by NASA - Mistake or

Received via "alt.alien.research" April 8 at 10.16 local time (GMT + 1
hour). Unfortunately this message turned up when I tried the link: "The
requested URL

http://www.globaldrum.net/rvnewmexico/marsface.htm

was not found on this server."

But Alexander Krivenyshev's homepage on "Geocities", where the link can
be found, is real. His Russian homepage cannot be accessed at the
moment.

Stig

*******

Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 22:13:23 GMT
From: Alex Krivenysh <krivenysh@geocities.com>
Subject: Reversed Mars Images by NASA : mistake or mislead ?????
Message-ID: <352AA4DF.6513@geocities.com>


Reversed Mars Images by NASA : mistake or mislead ?????

Images of Mars released by NASA is a Negative(reverse) Images of actual
photos. (I discovered  it 14 hours ago). Using Graphic program I
reversed the "Negative" image of the 'Face on Mars' and one can see
completely different picture, very much the same as photo taken in late
70s. On NASA's released photo(left image), the "large sunken area"
which looks like "eye"- actually is a "butte"(top) of eyebrow. On
"processed" photo(right image)- after my performing of reversed
negative image" - one can clearly see eyes, nose and mouth on the
photo.

Here is my Web page with "NASA reversed" and "my processing " pictures:

http://www.globaldrum.net/rvnewmexico/marsface.htm

Regards,

Alexander Krivenyshev- oceanographer and web designer, born in
Siberia, Russia,  now in New Mexico, USA

http://www.halyava.ru/tunguska/worldtm.htm

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/5082/









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                            Re: Mars Face Report

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 19:16:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 22:03:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Face Report


Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 17:22:42 -0400
To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mars Face Report

>NEARSIGHT INSTITUTE

>OFFICIAL REPORT ON THE NASA/JPL MARS FACE PHOTOS


REPORT FROM INSTITUTE FOR ADVANCED MYOPIA

It's still a face..... lots of faces.... smaller than the
origina......I look.... I see a chin///another chin....... I see
a nose...another nose.. I see eyeballs.

    .....I see (said the blind man
as he picked up his hammer and saw.....)

REPORT FROM TUNNEL VISION RESEARCH ASOCIATES

We agree with the results published by the INSTITUTE FOR ADVANCED
MYOPIA....

However, whereas the original face of 20 year ago was
scowling....this one appears to be smiling....on one side of its
face.......






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 8

                Mars Updates: A Few Comments on Real Science

From: "Steve Wingate" <swingate@crl.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 17:06:27 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 22:00:27 -0400
Subject: Mars Updates: A Few Comments on Real Science

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
Date:          Wed, 08 Apr 1998 12:12:43 +0200
To:            mars_updates@world.std.com, anomalous-images@world.std.com
From:          JJ Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.net>
Subject:       (FWD) A few comments on real science
Reply-to:      mars_updates@world.std.com

Forwarded message :
From: "Giuseppe" <russellp@iafrica.com>
To: <cydonia@majordomo.pobox.com>
Subject: [M-TRAC - NPAA] A few comments on real science

Good day all,

I wanted to point out a few things which although obvious, often
tend to be forgotten in light of new and exciting information.
Let us for a moment forget about exactly why the new NASA images
ARE exciting, (regardless in other words of whether it is because
they are fake/real and prove/disprove conspiracy/artificiality
etc.) and focus on the scientific method. I use the word
*scientific* here to identify not people who have a piece of
paper hanging from a wall that says they are qualified to be
scientists, but rather, the more correct term, meaning, the
method where a theory is based on premises, where those premises
have been tested logically, and passed the tests, and hence,
logical deductions, based on those premises can be formed.

Those deductions in turn similarly require logical testing and so
on. It is utterly irrelevant under this system whether one has a
degree in astrophysics or not, therefore, with respect to
pointing out how this or that person is making illogical
statements, one should be concerned not so much with their
qualifications as issued by an institution, but with the
'qualification' they themselves express vis a vis the ability to
perform logical analysis, commonly referred to as scientific
work.

In this respect then, I would like to make a few comments
regarding the Cydonia hypothesis and how this relates to the
comments of certain individuals on this list.

The Face and nearby structures (in the form of Viking Images)
have undergone extensive scientific testing with respects to the
likelyhood of their being artificial in nature. This testing
extends over a period of more than 20 years and includes
contributors from several fields. I borrow a partial list from
Dave, there actually have been more contributions than these, but
it is not really necessary to dig up every last one. Interested
parties could probably get a general overview by reading
Carlotto's latest book and the McDaniel report, and being aware
that their work is not only repeatable, but it is UNFALSIFIABLE,
that is the correctness of their work is NOT in question.

Arguments FOR artificiality:

* Fractal analysis of the Face and other features (Carlotto & Stein)
* Photoclinometric analysis of the Face (Carlotto, DiPietro & Molenaar)
* 3D and shape-from-shading analysis of the Face (Carlotto)
* Extensive statistical analysis of mounds near "City" (Crater)
* Geometric modeling and analysis of D&M Pyramid (Torun)
* Astronomical analysis (Martian pole shift) and socio-relevant
  positioning of Face (Van Flandern)
* Extensively documented history of NASA obfuscation of Cydonia
  research, including repeated use of misleading statements in
  official letters to Congress (McDaniel, Hoagland)

** Institutions represented by researchers:  The Analytical
Sciences Corp (TASC), Tennessee Space Institute, Defense Mapping
Agency, Celestial Mechanics Branch of the Naval Observatory

It is important to note that when I say the list includes
contributors from several fields, I am referring ONLY to those
persons that have validated themselves by showing their
willingness to follow the scientific method as outlined above.
The National Enquirer for example does NOT fall within this
category. More surprising however is that neither does Carl
Sagan, since in the infamous article he wrote on the Face he lied
about the existence of 'another' frame that showed no Face
existed. Neither does NASA, as shown by the extensively
documented McDaniel Report.

In this respect then, we have the curious problem, that we are
relying on a body which has shown its willingness to LIE and
FALSIFY data for the retrieval of further data. It is a bit like
a scientist having to rely on a used car salesman for receiving
the values of engine performances. THIS should be the only thing
that requires qualification, and can possibly create confusion.

Furthermore, extensive logically tested work has been done that
goes beyond the artificiality issue. Anyone aware of the large
body of scientific work done on this issue cannot seriously deny
that the case for artificiality is strong. It is only normal then
that a few people will have wondered, well, then, let's say it IS
artificial and see where that leads us, and then see if THAT is
congruent with what we have already tested. In this respect then,
the conclusions one has to inevitably run up against is that
certain technological developments MUST exist. It's a long road
to go from the Face on Mars to machines capable of manipulating
gravity, but it is a logical and testable road. At this point
then, it will become obvious, that such technology IS potentially
deadly dangerous for the entire planet (as well as being
potentially the most beneficial thing to have come to the human
race in historical memory).

Mars itself, is a clear indication of what misuse of this type of
technology can reduce a planet to, so it is NOT surprising that a
cover-up relating to alien artifacts exists, because if they were
known about in general, enquiring, scientific persons would begin
to ask, where they originate from, what modes of transport they
used and so on, and from there, within a few short weeks or
months, you would have groups of people, institutions and
individuals all around the world trying to build such technology,
and sooner or later, antigravity machines would be built (I
should say refined, since T. T. Brown built crude versions until
the mid 1950s, when his work was classified by the US Navy.
(Patent numbers of his work available on request by the way)).

There is therefore, a clear and logical reason why 'the powers
that be' in the form of NASA employees (NSA inspired or
otherwise) would want to keep such knowledge hidden. The NASA
charter states as much and the Brookings report practically
spells it out, stating that amongst the religious nuts etc. one
of the things that would 'push society over the edge' (I'm
paraphrasing) would be the idea for the so called commoners that
their leaders are actually nothing but a bunch of puppets at the
mercy of a superior intelligence (in the form of little green men
or whatnot, regardless of whether they are actually here or not
presently).

In fact, in their position I would probably be taking very
similar action (ie keeping the thing under wraps to some degree
or other), for the sake of global safety if nothing else. On the
other hand, as anyone familiar with the work done by the
professor emeritus (biologist) Rupert Sheldrake will know,
morphic resonance will practically ensure that antigravity
machine knowledge WILL eventually 'leak' out. In this respect it
is far preferable to have a gradual and consistent education of
people to this technology, so that when it finally IS introduced,
the shock effect can be minimal (it will still be huge, whichever
route is taken, but a program of education will minimise the
resulting damage to humanity) which is why I talk about this,
rather than have a sudden culture shock that Humanity would have
very little chance of surviving.

In conclusion then, how all of this relates to the comments made
by certain persons is simply that it becomes relatively easy,
when the whole picture is taken into account, to spot
misinformationists. In certain cases, these may simply be people
ignorant of the science that has been undertaken and in this
regard, one can only point them in the direction of the tried and
tested scientific work which has been done. If they refuse to
look at the evidence, then of course they disqualify themselves
from further discussion. That is they may continue to babble but
one is no longer required to listen. The other type of
misinformationist on the other hand is someone that is employed
in the task of not only spreading disinformation, but the
'debunking' of that true and accurate science that HAS ALREADY
been done, as well as the prevention of meaningful discussion
taking place between members of the loosely associated humans who
follow the scientific method.

In this respect then it also becomes somewhat possible to
differentiate between the misinformed and the (slightly?) more
educated but conscious misinformationist.

I applaude JJ for not banning such persons from this list,
despite the fact that I am fairly sure that at least one of them
(and probably up to three or so) exists here. The reason I
applaude it is because these people too need education, if in a
slightly different format from the rest of the masses.

While Mr. Average may need to learn a lot more how to curb his
idiocy so as not to reduce Earth to a slag-heap first chance he
gets to wield incalculable power, the misinformationists need to
learn a more dynamic and relevant way of 'educating' the 'sheep',
because their methods, although tried and tested over the last 50
years (as regards anti-g anyway) are becoming less and less valid
by the minute. In a dynamic system (the human race) a non-dynamic
system may temporarily succeed, but only temporarily, and it is
high time that the MIB (for want of a better term) learned that
it is time to chance system. from secrecy they have to start to
orient towards education, and even then, the TYPE of education is
important. It must, as much as possible be based in honesty. I am
probably way ahead of the times in describing this type of
'free-er', more 'honest', la-la-land type of society, but it is
important that the MIB understand that the need to begin to
implement this type of system is NOW, even if the real benefits
accrue only another 50 or 100 years down the line, because it is
a relatively SLOW system and requires the earliest opportunity of
implementation in order to have a reasonable chance of success.
The only other alternative (and the two can be combined anyway)
is the removal from Earth of the few who are in possession of
this technology, before the crisis point is reached, but this
will result in only a minority of humanity 'making it'.

I hope then that those that need to will get to read this message
in its entirety, and that it may have some bearing on their
future decisions.

Best Regards,

Giuseppe Filotto

PS: feel free to distribute this e-mail as you see fit, but
kindly do not alter it if doing so and include the source of
authorship.

People commenting to the post of course may snip to their heart's
content.

Regards to all (and Dean Adams fans in particular)

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 Posted by: JJ Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.net>


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 program using live and recorded CCD technology to document and record
 Lunar Transient Phenomena (TLPs). This mailing list is sponsored by
 Anomalous Images.

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 Posted by: "Steve Wingate" <swingate@crl.com>








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 8

               Lunascan: MGS Face Images & The Next Two Passes

From: Jeff Glickman <glickman@javalina.csf.edu>
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 17:37:29 -0600 (MDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 22:10:12 -0400
Subject: Lunascan: MGS Face Images & The Next Two Passes

I think we got a legit image, crappy as it is (compare the original muddy
strip to previous MGS images in quality). They nailed the Face dead on,
which means they can nail the City and the Fort. I always believed, having
been heavily influenced by the accomplishments during the Apollo years,
that NASA could do anything it really wanted to do. What began to disturb
me long ago was that is seemed they really didn't want to openly and
directly deal with Mars anomalies whatsoever. Perhaps we are in fact now
witnessing a slowly hastening de-sensitization process and this is NASA's
designed way of doing their part. It's just a thought though, and I still
believe NASA has it's "background" agenda.

Anyway, there already appear to be new mysteries to consider based on the
new 'enhanced' Face image. If the Face was designed, it may have been
meant to be seen as such from an optimal distance above the planetary
surface. Think of the Nazca Plain with all those line drawings: if you are
far enough above them, they look like something identifiable; if you are
above them but too close, you can't see the forest through the trees as it
were.

I think acquisition of the new Face image is a breakthrough. NASA did it,
at least they did it. Though I don't suspect fraud regarding the taking
and distribution of the image, we apparently don't have the documented
trail which Hoagland stressed was necessary for validation of the
acquisition process, and thus the validity of the image.

Be that as it may, public pressure must be maintained to acquire
not-crappy images on the next two MGS passes (I believe April 14 and April
24). The City, the Fort, and the area which would enable verification of
the Mound geometry are of highest priority, imho, so researches - whoever
they/we are - can work on verifying or falsifying artificiality
hypotheses.

After studying the new 'enhanced' Face image, I in no way felt compelled
to give up the idea that that landform was in fact designed to be seen as
a face from (an optimal distance) above. It looks very close to what
Carlotto predicted it would look like from that sun angle. For me, the
jury is still out regarding the Face and its origins, especially when one
considers the context in which it lives: the rest of highly anomalous
Cydonia.

I am very concerned about the major media reaction. To me, they have
proven themselves more than ever to be entertainment shows, not news
shows, for they do not appear to ask even the simplest questions but
rather draw conclusions as quickly as it takes to emit their sound bites.
Of course, it's still early. However, the public should make every effort
to not let them drop this story so quickly.

I gotta tell you this: in spite of the interminable wait of decades to get
new data; in spite of all the ongoing stress, anger, doubt, suspicion,
accusation, ranting, raving, politicizing, and polarizing; in spite of the
fact that after revering NASA and Carl Sagan during those Golden Years,
and having done a 180-degree reversal of opinion during the past fifteen
or so years ... in spite of all that, I am once again REALLY EXCITED about
space exploration!!! But DAMN, it sure took long enough.

I'm very happy I can say that, and I recognize that's just me, but I'm
sharing the feeling with you. I also say to everyone, we MUST keep up the
public pressure, we must keep on top of NASA, Malin, the media, and the
government at large. Keep on top of 'em, but support 'em as well, in the
effort to get pertinent and good data on these upcoming two passes: after
all, if they don't do it now, who else will do it and when? They gave us
the Face. We now need to get what is perhaps the more important sites of
the City and the Fort.

I want to be hopeful - and I am at least for this moment - that there is
new momentum in the search for the truth which, I am told, is "out there".

That's just my opinion. I could be wrong.


 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

 THE LUNASCAN PROJECT (TLP): An Earth-Based Telescopic Imaging (EBTI)
 program using live and recorded CCD technology to document and record
 Lunar Transient Phenomena (TLPs). This mailing list is sponsored by
 Anomalous Images.

 The Lunascan Project Home Page: http://www.evansville.net/~slk/lshomepage.html

 Anomalous Images and UFO Files: http://www.anomalous-images.com

 Send "subscribe lunascan" or "unsubscribe lunascan" in the body of the message
 to majordomo@world.std.com

 Posted by: Jeff Glickman <glickman@javalina.csf.edu>







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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 8

              Re: IUFORCE: STS-52 - Photos of Anomolous Object

From: "Leanne Martin" <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 18:27:52 PDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 22:49:22 -0400
Subject: Re: IUFORCE: STS-52 - Photos of Anomolous Object


>Subject: STS-52 - Photos of Anomolous Object
>Date: Tue, 31 Mar 98 21:22:36 -0600
>From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com>
>To: <iuforce@anne.crossfields.com>

>IUFORCE - International UFO Researchers Conference & Exchange

>As I recall in the recent past I mentioned STS-52 and some films
>and that someone from the ufology community should try and get them.
>The original of that message can be seen at:

>http://www.crossfields.com/~ace/current/ARCHIVE/1998/Mar/TueMar17175700CST1
>998.html

>Nobody, and I mean NOBODY responded! I guess that told me how much
>my word means or folks thought I was jokeing. NOT SO!

>So, not one to let it pass by without trying, I went out and found
>someone to fund the purchase. I now have all those films in my
>hot little hands. I have yet to look at thousands of photos and
>films. No telling what else will turn up of interest.

>As for now I have found something I think ALL of you will want
>to have a look at. You can judge for yourself. The quality is
>not good but I've done the best I can at present to get this stuff
>on the web so you can see it. I had to use my video camera with a
>make shift cardbord backlight to get a few half decent low rez
>photos you can see.

>If I seem a bit miffed at you ufologist for snubbing my call for
>help it's because I am! :(

>As for VALIDITY and PROOF I have "THE NASA MASTER PRINTS!" and I will
>allow one person to call me and come and see them for herself
>if she wishes. She knows who she is.

>Here are the URLS where you can see this. Both have the same material.

>http://www,crossfields.com/~general

>http://205.241.85.173

>Arthur C. Clark should see this!

>~Pat~


~Pat~

These images appear to be of a piece of shuttle tile. Note that
they remain consistently in view even as the backdrop of the
earth is changing behind it. Suggests that said fragment is
tumbling along in an orbit matching that of the shuttle . . .

Over to you

Regards,

Leanne Martin
Computer Engineer @ Wang Australia.








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   Apr > Apr 8

              Project 1947: Mr. Balducci, the Vatican, UFOs and

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 22:35:51 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 22:35:51 -0400
Subject: Project 1947: Mr. Balducci, the Vatican, UFOs and




The Vatican, UFOs & ETs thread is yet another Boylan-based waste
of time. Keith Woodward went to a great degree of trouble in
getting to the source of the 'story' over the last couple of days.
Due to Boylan's featuring in Keith's reports they won't be posted
to UpDates.

Boylan e-mailed me his original piece 'Vatican Tells' last
Friday, the 3rd. I snickered that snicker I reserve for 'Boylan'
stories and spiked it. But the story kept arriving here from
different sources and ended up on the List.

What an astounding asset Boylan is to ufology. A shining example
to us all. Thank you Boylan for your invaluable input. What a
joke this man is continuing to be.

And now a word or three from that nice Mr Russo, who does seem
to know what's _really_ happening.....

ebk
____________________________________________________


Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:58:55 +0200
From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@TORINO.ALPCOM.IT>
Subject: Mr. Balducci, the Vatican, UFOs and ETs
To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

Hello Jeff!

At 09.42 07/04/98 -0800, you wrote:

>Your note below was forwarded to me this morning.  If you would like to
>write up a slightly more formal rebuttal, I'll be happy to post it with the
>Balducci/Vatican story on my website.  The story has been updated somewhat
>with pictures of Fr. Balducci, etc.  Dr. Boylan said he believed Fr.
>Balducci's remarks were made over a period of a couple years.  Anything you
>might want to do to help clarify this issue would be appreciated.

I don't think a more formal rebuttal is needed, but if you
like...

1) Monsignor Corrado Balducci is NOT a Vatican theologist (that
is he is not one of those belonging to any congregation), though
is is a theologist and at the same time a priest.

2) As any other theologist (be they priests or not) he can claim
whatever personal opinion he may have, though controversial, on
any subject, but that is NOT the Vatican's opinion in any sense.
Moreover, he has sometime expressed controversial and unorthodox
opinions (eg. about subliminal messages in rock lyrics).

3) Corrado Balducci is a frequent guest on TV programs on a wide
variety of subjects, and he has also talked about UFOs in more
than one occasion. In particular, he was interviewed on a
"Special TG1" at national TV first channel (Raiuno) about UFOs on
August 16, 1997, and he offered his opinion that something must
be true, given the many witnesses, and that such alien beings
could well be superior to man, though inferior to angels, should
have both body and soul, but that he hoped they were less
body-conditioned, thus helping us to respect those universal
values God put into all intelligent beings. Similar opinions he
had already told in a previous TV debate he also took part on
October 7, 1995. (I've got a videorecording of both TV emissions
in CISU files.)

4) Such spiritualist viewpoints are shared by the most vociferous
UFO cultists here in Italy, grouped around contactee/BVM
visionnaire/stigmatized Giorgio Bongiovanni's "Nonsiamosoli"
movement and journal. Thus  "Nonsiamosoli" chose to publish an
interview with Corrado Balducci in a recent issue and also
reported his various TV statements. The same texts were put on
the Internet in that group's homepage:

www.worldlink.it/nonsiamosoli

which was recently renamed:

www.worldlink.it/nonsoloufo

when the webmaster divorced from the increasingly
commercial-minded activities of "Nonsiamosoli".

That was the source for the recently circulated news item, which
was:
- exaggerate as of scope (not the Vatican but a single theologist);
- wrong as of times (it's not such a recent development, but a series of
  more than two years interviews);
- wrong as of contents (it's not concerning an acceptance of alien UFOs,
  but an opinion on the possible spirituality of aliens).

I hope that this may settle the matter.

Regards


Edoardo Russo                             Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici
CISU, Casella postale 82, 10100 Torino - tel 011-3290279 - fax 011-545033
http://www.arpnet.it/~ufo          e-mail: edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it





   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 9

                      Re: Water Found on Saturn's Moon

From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia]
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 00:06:36 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 08:05:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Water Found on Saturn's Moon

>From: TotlResrch <TotlResrch@aol.com> [Kal Korff]
>Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:41:04 EDT
>To: Updates@GLOBALSERVE.NET
>Subject: Water Found on Saturn's Moon


 >>Dear List:

 >While Richard Hoagland and other farce on Mars types are busy
 >trying to rationalize NASA's recent images that gut their
 >favorite theory, the exploration and legitimate scientific
 >understanding of our universe is priceless nonetheless.

Kal,

I thought that somebody like YOU, who is such a scientific
investigator, would understand that the important photos from
Cydonia haven't even been taken yet. I guess not.

Do some research Kal. It will do you some good. No
theories have been gutted yet.

Joe






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 9

                     Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia]
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 00:49:09 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 08:08:17 -0400
Subject: Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

>Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 15:29:22 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face


>I will once again go way out on a limb and predict that there is
>no city, no fort, and no pyramids.  Once the area is photographed
>what will be seen is a bunch of ugly-ass rocks and barren
>desert.

>I can't wait.

>Bob

Gee Bob, I thought you said that you would love to be proven
wrong on this matter. Sounds like your the one who is entrenched
in a belief that all the objects in question are natural.

They may be natural but we need to wait before we know more. By
the way, what technical articles have you read regarding the
objects on Mars? Have you read any of them or is your belief so
strong that the objects are natural that you won't even look at
the serious work that has been done? Turn the other way & don't
even look!

This sounds like the same people who wouldn't look at the crazy
Wright Bros. new flying object because lighter than air flight
was impossible and the Wright Bros. had to be hoaxers. Man, does
history repeat itself or what?

Joe






   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 9

               Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 23:02:51 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 07:50:51 -0400
Subject: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs


>Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:36:28 -0700 (PDT)
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>Subject: UPN's "Danger in our Skies" and holographs

>Hello All,

>By coincidence the Martian Face picture got scheduled to be taken
>and presented just a few hours before the UPN program, "Danger in
>our Skies." So the "Face" has received a lot of attention but
>UPN's rendition of the Aug. 6th Mexico City UFO has not.

>From what I gather, the main alternative UPN presented to the
>reality of that UFO event was the idea that it was a holographic
>projection, put on by some U.S. military research group that
.figured Mexico City and its smog was a good place to test it.  >

>Now, it seems, any important UFO sighting, witnessed and
>photographed/video-taped, is subject to that explanation,
>especially if a light beam of any sort is seen to emanate from
>the UFO.>

>Do we have someone on this list knowledgeable enough on
>holographs to tell us about the feasibility of projecting such an
i>mage?  Is a uniform distribution of smog that allows a
>visibility of a couple miles sufficient?>

>Would it require the intersection of two laser beams to do the
>trick? If so, how would that work?>>

>I suspect there are quite a few good objections to the
>holographic hypothesis, and I'd like to see them aired here. No
>doubt it would take a good deal of extra effort just to get such
>an image to suddenly accelerate up to a certain velocity, and
t>hen maintain that constant velocity for a while.>

>The other alternative hypothesis to a genuine UFO, of course, is
>that of a carefully crafted computer simulation with planted
>witnesses acting out their stories.
><

Press/media in.....
Garbage out!!!

Typical....  remember that UPN = ENTERTAINMENT...not science
(unless it is entertaining).   The news media assume, with
President Clinton...that most "Joe Sixpack" people want to lean
back and watch... without thinking too much.... a la  Homer
Simpson (the Joe Sixpack of the 90's).

Anyway.... H O LO G R A P H I C..... what a nice word.... it sort
of brings a feeling of togetherness... you know,  "wholeness"

Unfortunately, peopel don't understand the term as used in
physics. You can't "project" a 3-D image from a hologram....  a
hologram is like a piece of film that can be used with COHERENT
light (single frequency) to create within the eye of the observer
who looks IN THE DIRECTION OF THE LIGHT SOURCE (OR IN THE
DIRECTION OF A REFLECTION OF THE LIGHT SOURCE) the impression of
an image "floating in space."   A holographic image is a real
image...can be photographed from several angles/
It is the reconstruction of light waves reflected from a 3-D
object.

Anyway, the suggestion that the Mex. Aug 6 video shows a hologram
of some object is less believable (if you can believe that) than
that the Roswell witnesses were unwitting "victims" of a "dummy
drop".
(You recall last summer's "dummy drop" theory of the Roswell
bodies.) The suggestion is made that the smog somehow made the
"hologram" visible.   Had there been a dense cloud and had it
been night time then it woul have been possible to project some
light image on the  cloud and creat the impression of some
lighted object. You cannot  project "darkness".... yet the UFO
image is darker than the sky  background.Thus you would have to
assume that the "hologram"  sucked light out of the atmosphere
within a volume that defines the size of the UFO.The "dark side"
may be powerful.... but not that  powerful.
Bottom line:  not a hologram or any trick of light projection.

A much more physically reasonable explanation would be an
electronic fabrication. However, that runs into interference if
the witnesses are believable.

Note: this UPN show was somewhat premature (not surprising)...
because not all the witness testimony is yet analyzed...  and
because the video itself is undergoing intense analysis. See the
April issue of the MUFON Journal for an article I wrote
concerning the initial analysis of the video, complete with
graphs of object motion and oscillation.

(I tried to post same here as a message with attachments
but it sees to have been lost in "limbo.")






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                         Re: Cydonia image available

From: "Terry J. Blanton" <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 23:00:49 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 07:52:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Cydonia image available

Andy Denne wrote:

> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 20:49:31 -0700
> From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Cydonia image available


> But I wonder howcome we only get to see a picture, allegedly of
> the "Face", that is is taken in such a position that tells us
> really zip!

Hi Andy!  It's good to hear from our European colleagues!  The
angle of the photograph is a result of the position of the
spacecraft.  The ground controllers have little control of this
once the spacecraft enters orbit.  To change the location of the
craft requires huge expenditures of station keeping fuel.
Personally, I am amazed that NASA was able to hit the face on the
first pass.  (Good job, NASA!)

> As you probably noticed there is a clear crater, close to the
> left side of the face in the Viking-pictures, well now, in the
> MGS-pictures the alleged "Face" is photografed in such an angle
> that it's quite difficult to make out wether it really IS the
> face-like structure. And why doesn't anybody wonder why we didn't
> get to see any pictures of the "pyramids"?

I love a conspiracy as much as anyone.  I am as disappointed with
the results of the imaging as anyone.  However, I am quite
confident that we are looking at the correct location.  There are
actually two craters which correspond with the Viking image
relative to the "face".  Visit the website of the company who
does the processing and look at the evidence.  It's at:

http://barsoom.msss.com/

> Another thing that I noticed on the picture we got to see on the
> evening news (I video-taped it so I could take a closer look at
> it) is the fact that the outside band-like structure of the
> "Face" really was to low and to flat and smooth compared by the
> initial viking-pictures?

Andy, look at some of the later enhancements.  I have compared
the raw data of the Viking images with the later enhancements and
find the same relationships as we see with the MGS images.  The
contrast and depth of the raw data is poor on both.  The
enhancements are required to give the correct perspective to the
image.

It's tough to give up on something that we have loved for so many
years; but, let's face it (ugh!) . . . it's not a face.

Be water or dust the source of our birth
There's no man in the Moon
There's no face on Mars
And it's quite qestionable
If there's intelligence on Earth.

Terry
(My Opinion)







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                     Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com> [Gary Alevy]
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 01:42:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 08:41:00 -0400
Subject: Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

> Subject: My Conclusion on the Mars Face.
> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 98 02:01:20 -0500
> From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com>
> To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>

>  I have concluded from image studies that the Mars images
>  of today most certainly and without doubt is the actual
>  area of the face. What you see is what you get.

>  NASA has played no game. There ain't no face, there
>  ain't no pyramids, there ain't nothing there to convince
>  me that that there is anything but natural formations.

>  For those who may doubt, I will soon post my image studies
>  and you can draw your own conclusions.

>  ~Pat~

Pat

NASA did not image the region of the "pyramids" in the first set
of images.  So what do you base that statement on?

As for games.... the images were shown as negative images
relative to the Viking images.  This is well known to alter ones
perception of relief of objects.  Moreover released image data
was not corrected for geometry which shows up as the elliptical
distortion present in the crater included with the "face" image.

I don't care if the object is a mesa or a face, displaying the
image that way is gamesmanship and misleading the public which is
not trained to know about these effects.

Gary






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                            Re: Mars Face Report

From: John <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 00:57:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 08:23:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Face Report

>Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 09:55:29 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mars Face Report

>>Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 17:22:42 -0400
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mars Face Report

>>NEARSIGHT INSTITUTE

>>OFFICIAL REPORT ON THE NASA/JPL MARS FACE PHOTOS

>>ISSUED APRIL 7, 1998

>>FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE --

>>Detailed analysis of the new photo of the Cydonia region
>>of Mars by the technical staff of the Nearsight Institute
>>has revealed the following.

><snipped>

>>Doubtless this plan was developed under the control of
>>the Illuminati, the New World Order and MJ-12, and it is
>>unlikely that even President Clinton is aware of this
>>deception.

>>We must all rise up and denounce this senseless destruction
>>of a major exoarcheological site.

>>Bob Shell, Director
>>Nearsight Institute
============================================================

>Bob-

<snip>

>It would not surprise me to
>see some of the proponents issue theories very similar to the one
>outlined above.

>Steve
==========

Hi Steve, hi Bob,

Don't worry about copyright infringement Bob. I will testify on
your behalf that you said it first! <G>

May the farce be with you.

John Velez ;-)








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                              In light of Mars!

From: "Todd Andrews" <todd@riskers.org>
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 20:22:00 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 07:46:12 -0400
Subject: In light of Mars!

In light of the new crap about Mars, and the literally ridiculous
things that NASA has been doing, RISKERS/NUFOIA is sponsoring a
new web site.

www.eaglesdisobey.com

Not only is this going to be the main site for the book, Eagles
Disobey, it will also become the place to get new information
about Mars, from MGS, etc.

Please feel free to check out the site tomorrow, as it will be
registered by 6:00PM tomorrow.  For now, you can reach the site
at:

http://209.38.129.131

Tomorrow at:

http://www.eaglesdisobey.com

Todd







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                     Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 07:51:15 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 09:02:29 -0400
Subject: Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

> From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia]
> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 00:49:09 EDT
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

> >Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 15:29:22 -0400
> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

> >I will once again go way out on a limb and predict that there is
> >no city, no fort, and no pyramids.  Once the area is photographed
> >what will be seen is a bunch of ugly-ass rocks and barren
> >desert.

> >I can't wait.

> >Bob

> Gee Bob, I thought you said that you would love to be proven
> wrong on this matter.

...And he *sounded* so sincere...

> Sounds like your the one who is entrenched
> in a belief that all the objects in question are natural.

I, too, noticed the undisguised, inappropriate, and
counterproductive glee of those so quick to dance around the
fiery Cydonian stake. Mr. Shell pretends to be broadminded, but
his relief, and the relief of others, is abundantly apparent.

> They may be natural but we need to wait before we know more. By
> the way, what technical articles have you read regarding the
> objects on Mars? Have you read any of them or is your belief so
> strong that the objects are natural that you won't even look at
> the serious work that has been done? Turn the other way & don't
> even look!

That is the way of it for -- sure. There is comfort (for most) in
standing with the rest to laugh and tease at the unknown and
frightening Quasimodo, but Quasimodo was quite real, in the
literature anyway, wasn't he? Mr. Shell pretends that there is
some actual *looking* going on in, and by, our respected (but
closed) institutions, and the information is, *of course*
dissiminated to us in a *completely* forthcoming manner.
Respectfully, -- blather-wah , and requiring no citation.

> This sounds like the same people who wouldn't look at the crazy
> Wright Bros. new flying object because lighter than air flight
> was impossible and the Wright Bros. had to be hoaxers. Man, does
> history repeat itself or what?

> Joe

Maybe not this time Joe. Too many guys like you and me want to
read all the way to the period. Thanks for the --"HEY! WAIT a
minute"!

Lehmberg@snowhill.com
--
Explore the Alien View?

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake.







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                      Re: The New Mars Facial Structure

From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com> [Gary Alevy]
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 01:35:10 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 08:32:31 -0400
Subject: Re: The New Mars Facial Structure

> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:23:16 -0700 (PDT)
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, updates@globalserve.net
> From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The New Mars Facial Structure

> >Subject: UFO UpDate: The New Mars Facial Structure
> >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
> >Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 02:57:37 -0400
> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> >> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:24:25 -0700 (PDT)
> >> To: updates@globalserve.net
> >> From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
> >> Subject: The new Mars facial structure

> >> What they failed to discuss was the outline of the stucture, and
> >> how impressive that looks as an artificial structure -- a beveled
> >> strip whose outer edge is perfectly straight along the "side of
> >> the head," very gradually curving into the "chin" outline, with
> >> both edges of the upward-inclined "bevel" being parallel or
> >> congruent. The odds against that occurring naturally are
> >> phenomenal. Then, add the symmetry of the right-hand edge, at
> >> least with respect to the outer edge of its beveled strip, and it
> >> seemingly can't possibly be a natural formation.

> >Actually it can quite easily be a natural formation, and the
> >outline structure can easily be caused by either a syncline or
> >slumped permafrost material, both of which are easily found
> >around many features in both MGS and Viking photos.

> >Saying that "the odds against that occurring naturally are
> >phenomenal" is very misleading. On what basis are such odds
> >calculated? Many geologic features, on Mars and elsewhere,
> >contain relatively straight lines. These include

> >Faults
> >Synclines
> >Anticlines
> >Polygonal cracking in cooling lava
> >Polygonal sorting in tundra terrains
> >Collapsed lava tubes (i.e. rills)

> >Of these, synclines, anticlines, and polygonal features tend to
> >produce outlines and sometimes nested outlines with parallel
> >lines, some of which, depending on erosion, can be curved or
> >straight. Further, slumping of material from an isenberg can
> >generate a parallel plateau which can be further modified by
> >erosion.

> Mark,

> Tendencies in the direction you indicate do occur, I grant you.
> Where the odds become infinitessimal is for these tendencies ever
> to show up as perfectly, smoothly, congruently and symmetrically
> as those of the "face's" outline.

<snip>

> The idea of de-convoluting the picture, or reducing its
> resolution to what exists in the 1976 pictures, is a good one,
> but, as has been mentioned, its 3-D terrain heights need to be
> determined so that the shadows can be deduced for the different
> solar angles of 1976. For this, one or more further views of the
> "face" from different vantage points but with similar resolution
> need to be taken.  This may not be forthcoming.  But if it should
> be, not only should a "face" supporter do the analysis and no
> doubt find that it would not come close to replicating the 1976
> shots, but so also a detractor, to see if he could close to
> replicating it.  (I assume no expert of neutral opinion in
> between could be found.)  Then after that, one would need to go
> to the best 3 out of 5, etc.

> Jim Deardorff

Jim,

I would like to make a point as to why I recommended
deconvolution of the high resolution image and not filtering as
Bruce Macabee responded to in my post.  These are not equivalent
terms in image processing.

Filtering is a mathematical operation using any number of
arbitrary functions, each having different properties and effects
on an image or in this case pixel of an image.  Image processing
based on application of filtering is challengeable based on the
selection of filtering operations and their ordering applied to
the image in question.

Different aspects of an image can be enhanced or suppressed by
the adroit selection of filters and their order.

Deconvolution is a process which uses the known properties of the
imaging chain(s) [mathematical functions] that uses an image
transform actually derived from measurement of the physical
imaging systems in question.  One takes the image data in
question, processes it deconvolves it, through the image
transform which represents the physical imaging chain under
investigation inorder to create a new image which reflects the
changes created by the actual imaging chain itself and not an
arbitrary selection of filters and operations.

The cameras that NASA uses are very carefully analyzed as to
their imaging properties.  If the corrected, high resolution
image data of the Malin camera images were deconvolved -
processed with the image transform of the Viking camera and
correction was made for the differences in lighting angles and
luminosity then one would have the best available image for
comparing the Viking and Malin images of the Cydonia "face".

Its sad that NASA, which has some excellent imaging specialists,
hasn't allowed their expertise to enter into any public part of
the discussion of these objects.  Probably one of them will have
to have their opinion published posthumously as Paul R. Hill
did.

Gary

Back in the 1980's this was a pretty easy bit of work for DeAnza
level image processing workstations with the correct software and
data sets.

Someone conversant with the NASA literature or old SPIE
proceeding of the appropriate imaging group might be able to find
some published information on the Viking camera or it might be
available through the NTIS or camera subcontractor.

Gary Alevy






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               Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

From: John <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 02:32:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 08:42:31 -0400
Subject: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

>Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:36:28 -0700 (PDT)
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>Subject: UPN's "Danger in our Skies" and holographs

>Hello All,

Jim writes,

<snip>

>Would it require the intersection of two laser beams to do the
>trick? If so, how would that work?

I'm sure that you'll hear from experts but from what little I
know of laser imaging (two) beams are needed. One is a reference
beam while the other carries the graphic data.

Where the two beams intersect is where the image is formed.
(I think! <G>) I'm sure we'll get the straight dope soon enough.

<snip>

>The other alternative hypothesis to a genuine UFO, of course, is
>that of a carefully crafted computer simulation with planted
>witnesses acting out their stories.

According to the two special effects guys that they contracted to
analyze the tape there was no "computer fakery" detectable by
them. One of them did say that he thought that the UFO was
suspended on a cable from a helicopter, but both agreed that
-whatever it was- was actually there on the scene as it was
videotaped. Ergo, not an "add on" or a "special effect."

Smoking gun? I think it's the best we've seen yet, but then I'm
no video expert. Spooky thing to watch though. It was a big one!

Peace,

John Velez








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                          Re: Extraterrestrial Cafe

From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com> [Gary Alevy]
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 02:24:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 08:44:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Cafe

> Posted by : Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)

> >From the New York Post. URL:

> http://www.nypostonline.com:80/040698/gossip/999.htm

> *******

> PAGE SIX

> By RICHARD JOHNSON with Jeane MacIntosh

> <snipped>

> PLANET Hollywood, Hard Rock Cafe, Fashion Cafe, Harley-Davidson Cafe,
> Comedy Nation, Television City and all the other theme restaurants may
> be in for some other-worldly competition. With the millennium
> approaching, Michael Luckman, director of the New York Center for UFO
> Research, hopes to build an extravagant Extraterrestrial Cafe in Times
> Square. The joint will feature a Mars Bar, a live "all alien" band, TV
> monitors beaming the latest UFO sightings, and waitresses in futuristic
> metallic outfits and flying saucer hats. Luckman, who says the
> Sphinx-like face found on Mars could be "the biggest scientific
> discovery in human history," is pitching his idea to investors.

> <snipped>

> Copyright (c) 1998, N.Y.P. Holdings, Inc. All rights reserved.

> Posted by : Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)

Stig,

Have you ever checked if there is such an organization?

There is no phone listing or mail address in New York City for
the so called "New York Center for UFO Research".  Micheal
Luckman is a publicist with a phone line and an answering machine
that doesn't return calls inquiring about this so called
organization.

He does have some connection or 'in' with the New York Post as
they do periodically publish comments or press releases by him
and this so called organization from time to time.  What for or
what purpose is unclear.

Does anyone have some background information on this
organization?

Gary






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                       Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl>
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 09:31:34 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 08:57:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism


> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:19:38 -0500
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: John <jvif@spacelab.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

> >From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia]
> >Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:37:07 EDT
> >To: UASR@MyList.net, updates@globalserve.net
> >Subject: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

> Tampa Joe writes,

> >Somebody wrote that there were no pyramids as Hoagland
> >predicted. Of course not, the pyramidal looking structures
> >are not located in the new photo of The Face. They are in
> >"The City". "The City" should be the next area
> >photographed next week. This is where the aritifical
> >vs. natural hypothesis will really be tested. Please
> >wait until you come to conclusions on any of these
> >photos.

> After I read Hoaglands original tome on the Mars face I
> was never too impressed with his arguement about
> that structure being a representation of a human visage.
> I always thought that it was pretty much the same thing
> as when you look at a cloud and make out familiar shapes.
> I just never thought much of the "face" to begin with.

> But, . . .I also believe that the strongest arguement for
> the existance of actual artificial structures is in the
> so-called 'City.' The pyramidal type structures that exist
> there _are_ the ones that everyone should be concentrating
> on. Those pyramidal shapes (the angles on the structures)
> cannot have been created by any natural means. (ie; wind
> and water erosion.)

> I'm waiting for the new photos of those areas (the City)
> before I dismiss it completely. I agree Joe, we all ought
> to hold of passing final judgement until _all_ of those
> features have been photographed and studied.

> I will anxiously await the analysis reports of those images
> from the director of the 'Nearsight Institute' who once
> confided in me, . . .

> "I do not avoid women Mandrake, I merely deny them my essence!"

> In the purity and essence of our precious natural fluids,
> I await further developments. <G>

> John Mandrake Velez ;-)


Hi John,

Okay, I do absolutely agree that the most important reason to
assume there are any artificial structures in the Cydonia-region
always were the pyramidlike structures. But, what I wonder is the
following:

Have you ever seen the structure you find in some semi-precious
stones? Just take a look at the natural shape of raw crystals or
amethyst and on the endings of these stones you can also find,
almost pyramidlike shapes.

So it seems that even these shapes don't HAVE to be artificial.

Now though, it almost looks like no ufologist has ever believed
or was interested in the "Face", and that doesn't seem true to
me! C'mon know yourselves and admit that just like me, we're
really all hoping the "city" is turning out what we hoped to
be...

But were are we gonna take it when the City also turnes out to be
nothin' at all...Let's all make sure to keep all our sences and
don't bring in Illuminati, New World Orders or nuclair
destruction of Mars,..

No if there isn't any face, if there aren't any pyramids... SO
WHAT, we made a mistake.

Now it's up to us to deal with the matter, and what about doing
that unlike scientists who make mistakes, and just ADMIT IT.
Science should be progressive and NOT dogmatic.

Bye from Holland,
Andy Denne, A.U.R.A.






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                        Greer's Back on the Soap Box

From: jared@valuserve.com (Jared Anderson)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 22:31:43 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 08:28:02 -0400
Subject: Greer's Back on the Soap Box

THE CSETI PROJECT STARLIGHT DISCLOSURE STRATEGY:

UPDATE AND CLARIFICATION 8 April 1998


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For over four and one half years, CSETI has been diligently
implementing a strategic plan to effect a disclosure on the UFO/ETI
subject. Recent misinformation and disinformation regarding this
process which has appeared on the Internet and elsewhere necessitates
a reiteration of that strategic plan and an update on the process.

In the summer of 1993, a group of CSETI advisors and military
consultants met to discuss how to best develop a reliable point of
contact (POC) to the US government. This was felt necessary after a
number of CSETI CE-5 encounter incidents had occurred which resulted
in team members expressing concerns about covert attempts to interfere
with the CE-5 diplomatic initiative. It was felt a reliable POC was
needed for communication and briefing purposes, thus reducing the
likelihood of an undesired outcome or event.

Ultimately it was decided that we should pursue various POCs within
the Executive Branch of the US government and the military and to
approach congressional leadership at a later point in the process.

A strategic plan was devised to 1) collect and identify the Best
Available Evidence related to UFOs/ETI; 2) identify top-secret
military and intelligence witnesses to the matter who were willing to
come forward and disclosure what they knew; 3) create a team of
briefers and advisors to Executive Branch officials and military
officials who would conduct briefings and recommend near-term
disclosure of the subject and the end to secrecy related to the
subject.

By September of 1993 this plan was in action, and with the assistance
of a senior official at the Joint Chiefs of Staff, a meeting was set
up at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base with the top-secret Foreign
Aerospace Science and Technology Center located there (this had
previously been the Foreign Technology Center to which the 1940's New
Mexico UFO crash remains had been sent; it is now called the National
Air Intelligence Center -NAIC). The discussions at Wright-Patterson
AFB were cordial and constructive.

Eventually, a number of consultants became involved with the briefing
and disclosure process, including national security think tank heads,
friends of the President and others. Continued networking resulted in
briefings for senior Clinton Administration officials, including CIA
Director James Woolsey.

During these briefings, we recommended decisive government action to
end the secrecy surrounding this subject and that the Administration
should work to disclose substantial facts about the UFO/ETI issue as
soon as possible. In the materials provided for senior White House,
CIA, DOD and other officials we set out the rationale for the
timeliness of this disclosure and the dangers associated with
continued secrecy. We also clearly stated in writing that if the
government did not coordinate this disclosure, that we would bypass
the government and work to disclose these secrets unilaterally.
However, we made it clear that it was in the nation's (and world's)
best interest to have so weighty a matter disclosed cooperatively by
the government.

Unfortunately, very senior Executive Branch officials, including the
CIA Director, senior Presidential advisors and Pentagon officials
found it difficult to penetrate the ultra-secret �black' programs
dealing with this subject. As CIA Director Woolsey pointed out to me,
they cannot disclose what they do not know or have access to.

It is now a matter of public record that Assistant Attorney General
and close Presidential friend Webster Hubbell had been asked
officially by the President to look into the UFO issue (see Hubble's
book �Friends in High Places"). Hubbell stated that they were not
satisfied with the answers they were getting from NORAD and elsewhere.
It is disturbing to think that the President - our Commander-In-Chief
- and his inner circle may not have high enough clearances to be
briefed fully on this matter...

After a period of extensive briefings for US, foreign and UN leaders,
it became obvious that 1) these leaders were deliberately being kept
in the dark on the subject and 2) that they did not possess the
courage or political will to take on the covert apparatus managing the
UFO/ETI matter. In fact, they were visibly shaken by the situation.

As more and more top-secret witnesses, documents and other evidence
was identified, it became clear that - unless a Presidential executive
order effectively ended the secrecy and resulted in disclosure - that
our next best option would be to identify a member of congress who
would call for and hold open congressional hearings on the subject.

At this point, a number of old wags in the UFO subculture stated that
we should just come forward with what we knew, identify the top-secret
witnesses and let it all come out. This facile strategic
recommendation overlooked three major problems:

The foundation of the disclosure process is the pool of dozens of
top-secret military and intelligence witnesses to unambiguous UFO/ET
events and programs. These courageous witnesses have asked for a safe,
effective and official means of coming out with their testimony, if at
all possible. CSETI felt a moral responsibility to vigorously pursue
an officially sanctioned venue for so momentous a disclosure, if at
all feasible. To this end, CSETI has - for 4 * years - attempted to
secure the highest, safest official venue possible for this
disclosure. These courageous military witnesses have asked this of us,
and we have faithfully pursued that request. Some of these witnesses
are in fear for their lives; others fear other sanctions and
punishment. All of them would prefer to come forward in an official
setting, freed from the restraints of their national security oaths
etc.


The disclosure of the reality of UFOs and ETI is no small matter.
Neither the CSETI leadership nor our witnesses wanted to appear to be
upstaging the US government, the UN or other concerned governments. It
was imperative that we make good-faith efforts to get our national and
world leaders to deal with this subject officially, prior to a
unilateral privatized disclosure. The implications of such a
disclosure are so vast and so profound that only a very reckless
person or group would attempt to effect this disclosure without first
offering to work cooperatively with our governments. We have
assiduously created a paper trail which fully documents these efforts,
lest we later be accused of disclosing the ultimate secret without
first consulting with the government. While this process has been in
turns tedious, rewarding, exasperating, expensive and time-consuming,
we are certain that it was the right thing to do.


In the absence of significant funding for a privatized disclosure, the
best and most cost-effective way to achieve this goal was to convince
the government or the Congress to take on this task. A congressional
hearing, obviously, would be funded by the Congress. A private
disclosure will need to be funded by - who? Those who think that you
simply hold a press conference with the witnesses (arranging that -
including flying into one place, lodging etc dozens of witnesses-
would alone cost tens of thousands of dollars, if not hundreds of
thousands) have never dealt with big media on this subject. We are not
willing to expose these witnesses unless it is strategically
effective. There is no point in taking such risks unless there is a
reasonable likelihood that the status quo will be changed. To
privately see that this is the case -with no support of congress or
the government - will be a very complex and expensive undertaking, far
outside the resources of the UFO community at this time (or at any
time in the past). In light of the above, from 1995-1997 CSETI pursued
a number of briefings with members of Congress. One year ago, on April
9,1997, we convened the historic CSETI briefings for members of
Congress, White House figures and senior military figures, among
others (see the CSETI Report on the DC Briefings). Since April of
1997, we have continued to provide briefings and recommended to key
congressional committee chairmen that open hearings be convened as
soon as practical. Hundreds if not thousands of CSETI supporters have
written these key congressional leaders recommending open hearings on
the UFO/ETI subject.

I have personally met with numerous members of Congress. Key committee
chairmen have been fully briefed and given unambiguous evidence and
top-secret witness testimony, in person and on videotape. And everyone
is tossing this hot potato to someone else's committee. Not unlike the
refrain Not In My Backyard, it appears our leaders are saying Not In
My Committee .

To recap, we have over the past four and a half years assiduously
fulfilled a strategy to identify the best scientific evidence and
government witnesses, brief and advise world leaders, members of
Congress, the Pentagon, the UN and others and have fully documented
this process. We have done everything humanly possible, at immense
cost in funds, time and human life, to see that this process was done
properly. In good faith to our witnesses we took no shortcuts and have
consistently asked the President, the Congress and others to allow
this disclosure to take place officially and safely through proper
channels.

While we are willing to continue to brief members of Congress,
Pentagon leaders and other government leaders when called upon, and
while we still prefer official government involvement in this
disclosure, the time has come to begin these disclosures without the
government. We cannot allow this process to be delayed indefinitely by
bureaucrats or timid politicians who will not take on this
responsibility. The opportunity has been offered to them, and we
continue to offer our cooperation should Congress or the President
decide to do the right thing and become involved in this disclosure
process.

Ultimately, however, the time comes when closure is needed regarding
the government briefing process, and �we the people' should exert our
rights to free speech and come forward with the truth as we have found
it.

Without the cover of a Congressional subpoena, many witnesses may be
reluctant to step forward. However, we know that the most courageous
and resolute government witnesses will come forward with us,
independent of the government. They, more than we, are weary of the
excessive secrecy and ridiculing which surrounds this subject. With
these courageous witnesses, we will come forward with a privatized,
civilian led program to disclose the truth of this subject, in the
most credible, highest and most effective manner possible.

This will consist of a world news conference, multi-part prime time
expose documentary series, compendium books and a world scientific
summit. This process, once begun, must be relentless, high quality,
serious and thorough.

Ironically, numerous members of Congress, White House staff, and very
senior Joint Chiefs of Staff personnel have recommended that we bypass
the government altogether and come forward with the evidence and
witnesses. Of course, this is somewhat self-serving, since it gets
them off the hook and ignores the fact that many of our best witnesses
will not come forward without officially sanctioned approval and
immunity from prosecution for violating national security regulations.
Nevertheless, after four and half years of thorough strategic
implementation, the time has come to see that the truth comes out via
a civilian, privatized multi-media process. And we have been told by
members of Congress that once this happens, the likelihood of open
Congressional hearings will be significantly enhanced.

These are the crossroads at which we find ourselves: The Congress,
like Caesars's Senate, pursues trivialities while Rome burns, and the
main stream news media regards the pursuit of sexual peccadillos as
the summit of investigative reporting. How tragic.

Meanwhile, it is left to the people to resolve one of the most
important issues of our time: That we are not alone, that intelligent
life is visiting this planet, and that a cabal of covert programs and
entities are hiding the truth from our leaders and from the people.
And the means for generating immense amounts of pollution-free energy
is hidden away in black projects, while the earth's geophysical
equilibrium is increasingly upset.

I suggest we move on.

Steven M. Greer M.D. Director of CSETI

copyright 1998 Steven M. Greer M.D.







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   Apr > Apr 9

                Re: 'Danger In Our Skies: The New UFO Threat'

From: John <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 01:38:32 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 08:25:47 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Danger In Our Skies: The New UFO Threat'

>Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 11:22:01 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Danger In Our Skies: The New UFO Threat'

>>From: MB DRUMS <MBDRUMS@aol.com> [Mark Beecher]
>>Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 17:54:22 EDT
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: "Danger In Our Skies: The New UFO Threat"

>>Hi Errol!

>>Just wanted to ask if anyone videotaped the UPN TV Network
>>Special - "Danger In Our Skies: The New UFO Threat" (regarding
>>the Mexico City UFO video) that aired April 6th 1998.  If so,
>>could they please contact me at...
>>mb drums@aol.com

>>I heard it was gonna be on, but didn't realize it was on last
>>nite and missed it!

>>I can trade a copy of that video, for one of many UFO videos I
>>have in my collection.

>>Thanks and hope to hear from someone.

>>Mark Beecher

>If UPN follows their normal pattern, I would suspect that the
>show will be repeated in 4 to 6 weeks.  If I see any reference to
>it's airing again, I'll try to make sure the 'List' is aware of
>it.

>Steve

Hi Steve, hi All,

You should also caution Mark that he may not be able to tape it
because it may not be the _actual_ program. The military may just
be projecting a 'hologram' of the show into the atmosphere
surrounding his TV set! <VBG>

Debunkers take careful note:

Swamp gas is out as an explanation, . . .military holograms is
in!

Peace,

John Velez, still holding my "I told you so."








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   Apr > Apr 9

                            Re: Mars Face Report

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 08:19:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 09:00:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Face Report

>Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 19:16:25 -0400
>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Mars Face Report
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


>Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 17:22:42 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mars Face Report

>>NEARSIGHT INSTITUTE

>>OFFICIAL REPORT ON THE NASA/JPL MARS FACE PHOTOS


>REPORT FROM INSTITUTE FOR ADVANCED MYOPIA

>It's still a face..... lots of faces.... smaller than the
>origina......I look.... I see a chin///another chin....... I see
>a nose...another nose.. I see eyeballs.

>    .....I see (said the blind man
>as he picked up his hammer and saw.....)

>REPORT FROM TUNNEL VISION RESEARCH ASOCIATES

>We agree with the results published by the INSTITUTE FOR ADVANCED
>MYOPIA....

>However, whereas the original face of 20 year ago was
>scowling....this one appears to be smiling....on one side of its
>face.......


Err, Bruce,

Checked your Lithium dosage recently?

Bob








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   Apr > Apr 9

                              Re: Face Punched

From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com> [Gary Alevy]
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 03:21:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 08:46:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Face Punched

> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 11:24:28 -0400
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Face Punched

> >Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 02:16:13 -0400
> >From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Face Punched

> <text deleted>

> >Bruce,

> >Why not try deconvolving the released data set to lower
> >resolution to see what it shows.  This is a pretty elementary
> >image processing operation.

> >My prediction is that at no resolution will the released data set
> >bear any resemblence to the Viking pictures.

> >Bottom line - the released image is not an image of the object
> >imaged by Viking.

> >Moreover no information which could be held up in a court of law
> >has been provided by NASA to establish that this new image is an
> >image of the object imaged by Viking.

> >Gary Alevy


> I had thought that the hope was for a better picture of the
> region, and not an image that was to be modified to look like the
> original.  However, I would assume from the thrust of your
> statement that you believe NASA wouldn't release any data that
> would seem to indicate that the structure isn't a natural
> formation.  This belief would put NASA in a no-win situation, in
> that there is nothing they could provide that would be
> acceptable, unless it conforms to what is expected.

> Is a legal challange being proposed here, to force NASA to prove
> that the images are what they are purported to be?  That would be
> a first, and presumes that only information that is provable in a
> court of law is acceptable.  In reality, I would suspect that any
> evidence submitted by NASA to prove that the image is of the same
> area would be met with criticism by those who already "know" the
> truth, and even a court ruling would be questioned as "part of
> the plot".

> Anyone who believes these images (and the ones to follow this
> month) will end the debate and force one side to "give in" is
> most likely mistaken.

> NASA imaged the area as promised, and posted those images to the
> "net". Other images will likely follow as the planet is mapped.
> But unfortunately (IMHO, and not directed at those involved in
> this particular thread) this is like a "religion" to some "true
> believers", and for them this isn't really a discussion.  No
> matter what is shown, their "faith" won't be shatterred.

Steve,

Unfortunately I believe you did not understand my post but Bruce
Macabee who is an imaging specialist did.   I have included Bruce's
replies below so I won't repeat that here instead I will cover some
other points.

No, the point of imaging Cydonia was not to obtain a 'better picture'
that anyone could interpret and challenge on any arbitrary ground.
The purpose of reimaging the area was (at least for the imaging
scientists who seriously analysed this and other objects in the
Cydonia region) was to obtain an image that would help prove or
disprove the hypothesis that this object the so called "face" and the
other objects in the Cydonia region were of natural or artificial
origin.

To do this properly one must have unassailable data, data that cannot
be challenged as to its authenticity.  NASA in its press releases had
stated it would make that data available in "realtime".   Curiously
they didn't do this but what the heck they are NASA, right.

Your putting words in my mouth about assumptions is just wrong.  I
don't have to guess whether or not NASA would release data that the
structure isn't a natural structure.  It is well documented that our
government has studied this issue e.g. Brookings report, etc. and
would not release this type of information without careful
deliberation.

The reality about "what is expected' concerns what NASA's actions for
15 years - basically performed politicized, non-science on this issue,
familiarize yourself with the McDaniel Report.

Not everyone is a "true believer" like you who accepts uncritically
whatever information NASA posts in a press release.  NASA is composed
of people some of them scientists, administrators, some of them with
"cold warrior" backgrounds like Dan Goldin etc of varying agendas just
like the rest of the people in the world. NASA does not have the
scientific 'gospel' as your 'faith' in them seems to hold.

As for why a scientist would find the deconvolution of the higher
resolution image to the Viking image important, read what Bruce
Macabee had to say, he speaks of it as this as being Carlottos 'duty'
as a scientist - you ought to understand why Bruce speaks of it that
way and until you do I would say you'd be wasting any scientists time
with your 'know'ing nonsense about 'plots' 'truth' 'religion' and
'true believers'. There are usenet groups for discussions like that, I
think they are called alt.conspiracy or some such.

Gary Alevy

>From Bruce Macabee's post:

YES INDEED!.   This is now Carlatto's "duty" as a scientist,
gentlemen and/or ufologist. He has all the software and hardware
to to it (I don't). He should

1) use a symmetric (in x and y) low-pass (spatial frequency)
filter to reduce the resolution to that of the original face (OF)
pictures of 20 years ago

2)  create a 3-D model of teh degraded mage

3)  change the viewpoint to that of the satellite 20 years ago

4)  change the sun angle to that of 30 years ago

(He could reverse 1 and 2). In other words, demonstrate that it
is possible to go from the real face (RF) image to the OF image.

>My prediction is that at no resolution will the released data set
>bear any resemblence to the Viking pictures.>

WEll, this is a prediction Carlatto should check. And I, for one
would not bet against the ability o make the RF image look like
the OF image once viewing angle and solar angle are taken into
account.

>Bottom line - the released image is not an image of the object
>imaged by Viking.  >

True.... wrong viewing angle, wrong solar angle..and
"extreme" resolution, as compared with the old

>Moreover no information which could be held up in a court of law
>has been provided by NASA to establish that this new image is an
>image of the object imaged by Viking.>

That may be true.... but presumably they can demonstrate the
complete "data flow".   My own hunch is that because of all this
publicity they have just dumped the raw data for anyone.
(I tried to download th 5 MB raw data but couldn't get it
yesterday.... probably too many hits on their web site)





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   Apr > Apr 9

                     Alien life 'will be found by 2050'

From: RSchatte <RSchatte@aol.com> [Rebecca]
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 05:21:43 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 08:59:08 -0400
Subject: Alien life 'will be found by 2050'

From: The Forteana List

From: "Martin Adamson" <martin@srv0.ems.ed.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:52:10 +0000
Subject: Alien life 'will be found by 2050'

The Scotsman - 8 April 1998

Alien life 'will be found by 2050'

Expert predicts planet-hunting space telescope will track down
extraterrestrials

 ALASTAIR DALTON and DEREK LAMBIE
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

LIFE will be discovered on planets going round other stars before
the middle of the next century, a leading Scottish astronomer is
predicting.

Dr Alistair Glasse will tell the Edinburgh International Science
Festival tomorrow that he expects an ambitious European space
project to find extraterrestrial life.

Dr Glasse, of the Royal Observatory in Edinburgh, is a telescope
specialist on the =A3500 million Darwin Mission, which is
competing for funding from the European Space Agency.

The project involves launching five rockets containing separate
telescopes out towards the orbit of Jupiter to search for life.

The telescopes would be linked to create an instrument with 40
times the power of the Hubble space telescope to detect light
from planets previously hidden by the glare from their stars. The
mission would involve a two-year journey to a spot 400 million
miles away from the Earth.

The ESA is expected to rule on Darwin and a rival proposal, Gaia,
in 2000, with the mission to be launched in 2015.

Dr Glasse said yesterday: "I think it is likely that there is
life elsewhere in the universe and it is highly likely that this
mission will detect something.

"You cannot say for certain there is life until you detect it,
and it is important to have hard evidence.

"But if there is life on any of the 120 stars we are looking at,
then Darwin will detect it," he added.

American scientists have already claimed that conditions on one
of Jupiter's moons, Europa, are capable of supporting life.
Research on a Martian meteorite has also suggested that there may
once have been life on Mars.



The National Aeronautics and Space Administration revealed last
month that it had found water on the moon.

In the Darwin Mission, scientists would search for signs of life,
ranging from plants to intelligent aliens, on planets believed to
be orbiting nearby stars.

The five infrared telescopes would examine the signals from the
planets for traces of oxygen or water, which could signal the
presence of life.

Dr Glasse said: "It goes back to how life on Earth started. In
the early days of Earth, the atmosphere was just carbon monoxide,
but algae developed into plants which produced oxygen.

"So far, planets in our solar system have showed no signs of
life, but using modern technology gives us the chance of looking
for signs elsewhere in the universe. The problem we face is that
we are looking at something which is a very long way away."

The combined power of the five space telescopes would be required
because of the difficulty of picking out the planets against the
glare of the stars.

Dr Glasse said: "It's like trying to detect a glow worm which is
beside a furnace from a distance of 350 miles.

"To detect them we would have to have a telescope 100 metres in
diameter in space but we cannot launch something like that.

"What we will do is launch five together and they will join to
map out a big mirror to help us see further."

The five telescopes would join up in a set pattern in an orbit
somewhere between Mars and Jupiter and will take up stations
about 50 metres apart. Their images would be combined in a
central control unit where a technique called nulling
interferometry would be used to cancel out the light from the
star being examined making it possible to detect light from the
planets.



To build up a full picture, the telescopes would be moved in a
precise pattern which would be measured by lasers to within a
millionth of a metre.

The first stage would be merely to establish which stars have
planets in orbit round them. The next would be to read the
patterns in the light reflected from the planets to tell which
chemicals - particularly water and oxygen - are there.

A separate spacecraft would be used for distance measuring and
communications with the Earth.

------------------------------





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   Apr > Apr 9

                     Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 09:01:44 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 15:46:56 -0400
Subject: Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

>From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia]
>Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 00:49:09 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

>>Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 15:29:22 -0400
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face


>>I will once again go way out on a limb and predict that there is
>>no city, no fort, and no pyramids.  Once the area is photographed
>>what will be seen is a bunch of ugly-ass rocks and barren
>>desert.

>>I can't wait.

>>Bob

>Gee Bob, I thought you said that you would love to be proven
>wrong on this matter. Sounds like your the one who is entrenched
>in a belief that all the objects in question are natural.

>They may be natural but we need to wait before we know more. By
>the way, what technical articles have you read regarding the
>objects on Mars? Have you read any of them or is your belief so
>strong that the objects are natural that you won't even look at
>the serious work that has been done? Turn the other way & don't
>even look!

>This sounds like the same people who wouldn't look at the crazy
>Wright Bros. new flying object because lighter than air flight
>was impossible and the Wright Bros. had to be hoaxers. Man, does
>history repeat itself or what?

>Joe

Joe,

I have sat through a "lecture" by Richard Hoagland, which was
more of a paranoid and disjointed rant.  I have watched some of
the other "experts" explain their theories on the geometry of the
city on video.  I have not read any of their published reports,
since I found their basic assumptions so flawed that I saw no
reason to waste my time on it.  The simple fact is that the
resolution of those old Viking photos was simply not good enough
for them to draw the conclusions they were making.  Enhancing
images electronically will not create data that is not there in
the originals, but it can produce false artifacts, as appears to
be the case in the "face".

I have really been astonished here to see all of the posts saying
that "it really still is a face", "it's not a face but it looks
artificial", and so on.  Pardon my language, but this is
bullshit.  It's a god damned mesa, period!  There is NO face.

Now, as I said before, I would love to be proved wrong when the
other features are imaged, but I am predicting with rather strong
confidence that this just ain't gonna happen.

Maybe there was life on mars.  Maybe there still is life on
mars.
Maybe it got advanced enough to have civilization before
something wiped it out.  All of this could be true, but I think
the traces will be so small that it will have to wait for manned
(or very advanced robot) landing and exploration.  I believe
strongly that it is highly unlikely that earth is the only place
life evolved.

Your Wright Brothers analogy is way off the mark.  Think about
it, won't you?

Bob







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   Apr > Apr 9

                      Re: Water Found on Saturn's Moon

From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 00:06:36 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 15:52:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Water Found on Saturn's Moon

>From: TotlResrch <TotlResrch@aol.com> [Kal Korff]
>Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:41:04 EDT
>To: Updates@GLOBALSERVE.NET
>Subject: Water Found on Saturn's Moon


 >>Dear List:

 >While Richard Hoagland and other farce on Mars types are busy
 >trying to rationalize NASA's recent images that gut their
 >favorite theory, the exploration and legitimate scientific
 >understanding of our universe is priceless nonetheless.

Kal,

I thought that somebody like YOU, who is such a scientific
investigator, would understand that the important photos from
Cydonia haven't even been taken yet. I guess not.

Do some research Kal. It will do you some good. No
theories have been gutted yet.

Joe






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                       Re: Mars Face, yes it's there!

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 09:05:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 15:48:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Face, yes it's there!

>From: ATKMajic@iname.com, Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 00:46:17 +0200
>Subject: Fwd: Mars Face Turned Straight Up And Down

>Received via "alt.paranet.ufo" April 7 at 10.51 local time (GMT + 1
>hour). To view Fiontar McEoghan's latest results, go directly to

>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/4470/fom.htm
>Good luck!

>Stig

>*******

>Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 20:10:21 -0400
>From: PHD: Feanturi <ATKMajic@iname.com>
>Subject: Mars Face, yes it's there!
>Message-ID: <352AC06C.69A3C03@iname.com>


>Hi All,

>I've posted some images on the web that I think everyone needs to
>see before deciding on the "Face" on Mars. The human eye is a
>funny thing, and the tilt to the face formation makes it
>particularly hard to discern the features. So, first I rotated
>the image to the right 37 degrees, so the face is straight up and
>down. It makes things much clearer.

>If it was a face created by someone, it was clear from the image
>that the right side had been damaged much worse than the left, so
>I mirrored the left side onto the right, to see what it might
>look like symmetrically, and was very shocked how clear it was.
>Other than the rotation, and the mirroring, NO other alterations
>were made. I think the results deserve a look, and some
>consideration.

>Let me know what you think:

>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/4470/

>Thanks,
>Fiontar McEoghan

>Please note, I'm not drawing any conclusions, but the results are
>at least consistant with a face.


What I think is that if you play enough games with this image of
a mesa, you can make it look like anything.

What is that supposed to prove?

Bob










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                  Re: Neg Reversal of Mars Images by NASA?

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 09:33:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 15:51:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Neg Reversal of Mars Images by NASA?

>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 23:30:44 +0200
>Subject: Fwd: Reversed Mars Images by NASA : mistake or mislead ?????


>Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 22:13:23 GMT
>From: Alex Krivenysh <krivenysh@geocities.com>
>Subject: Reversed Mars Images by NASA : mistake or mislead ?????
>Message-ID: <352AA4DF.6513@geocities.com>

>Reversed Mars Images by NASA : mistake or mislead ?????

>Images of Mars released by NASA is a Negative(reverse) Images of actual
>photos. (I discovered  it 14 hours ago). Using Graphic program I
>reversed the "Negative" image of the 'Face on Mars' and one can see
>completely different picture, very much the same as photo taken in late
>70s. On NASA's released photo(left image), the "large sunken area"
>which looks like "eye"- actually is a "butte"(top) of eyebrow. On
>"processed" photo(right image)- after my performing of reversed
>negative image" - one can clearly see eyes, nose and mouth on the
>photo.

<snipped>

No, no, no.  It is NOT a negative image.  The light is just coming
from a different direction.

Get real, people!

Bob








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                          The Eyes of Media Upon Us

From: authority@webtv.net (Doc in Phoenix)[John M. Barry]
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 06:34:47 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 16:03:30 -0400
Subject: The Eyes of Media Upon Us

Although we waited for April 6th, and watched for the release
from NASA of the first pictures of the Cydonia region, the man on
the street was not informed.

To the great interest shown and dispersed by CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS,
FOX, BBC, CBC, Reuters, AP, and UPI, we say:

       "May the FACE be with you"   = Doc








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                            Re: Mars Face Report

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 09:43:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 16:07:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Face Report

>Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 09:55:29 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mars Face Report

>>Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 17:22:42 -0400
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mars Face Report

>>NEARSIGHT INSTITUTE

>>OFFICIAL REPORT ON THE NASA/JPL MARS FACE PHOTOS

>>ISSUED APRIL 7, 1998

>>FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE --

>>Detailed analysis of the new photo of the Cydonia region
>>of Mars by the technical staff of the Nearsight Institute
>>has revealed the following.

><snipped>

>>Doubtless this plan was developed under the control of
>>the Illuminati, the New World Order and MJ-12, and it is
>>unlikely that even President Clinton is aware of this
>>deception.

>>We must all rise up and denounce this senseless destruction
>>of a major exoarcheological site.

>>Bob Shell, Director
>>Nearsight Institute

>Bob-

>Care should probably be taken to make sure that everyone is aware
>that your tongue is firmly planted in your cheek.  I suspect that
>someone will probably forward this report from the "Nearsight
>Institute" as the gospel and give it their own "spin" as they
>distribute it to the world via the "net".

>In spite of the images and the proof that they allegedly contain,
>there are those who have devoted years to this research, and
>there will be great resistance to their acceptance of any "proof"
>that disagrees with their beliefs.  It would not surprise me to
>see some of the proponents issue theories very similar to the one
>outlined above.

>Steve


Steve,

Boy are you on target!  I got a bunch of e-mails this morning
from people who took the whole thing seriously.  Some wanted me
to e-mail them the complete research paper, some wanted to know
how they could learn non-remote viewing, and on and on.

This has become more of a religion than I realized.

Oh well, let's wait for the rest of the pictures.......  I'm sure
they will show all sorts of things to the true believers.

Bob








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                  Re: Phil Klass to discuss UFO Abductions

From: "Yvonne Hedenland" <vonni_h@email.msn.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 08:53:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 16:26:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Phil Klass to discuss UFO Abductions

UFO Abductions:  A Dangerous Game?

Tuesday, April 14th, at 6pm pt, the UFO Forums
guest will be America's favorite debunker, Phil
Klass.

Klass agrees that alleged abductees are victims,
but not of aliens. They have been deceived,  instead,
by abduction researchers, who in the process of
promoting themselves are determined to see alien
intrusions regardless of the facts.

This chat is available at  http://forums.msn.com/UFO
The Briefing Room chat can also be accessed by any
IRC client. The chat server name is publicchat.msn.com
and the room or channel name is #briefing.

The Netshow Audio Interview will be available Thursday,
April 9th.







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                      Re: The New Mars Facial Structure

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 10:17:28 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 16:31:53 -0400
Subject: Re: The New Mars Facial Structure

>Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 01:35:10 -0400
>From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com> [Gary Alevy]
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The New Mars Facial Structure

>Jim,

>I would like to make a point as to why I recommended
>deconvolution of the high resolution image and not filtering as
>Bruce Macabee responded to in my post.  These are not equivalent
>terms in image processing.

>Filtering is a mathematical operation using any number of
>arbitrary functions, each having different properties and effects
>on an image or in this case pixel of an image.  Image processing
>based on application of filtering is challengeable based on the
>selection of filtering operations and their ordering applied to
>the image in question.

>Different aspects of an image can be enhanced or suppressed by
>the adroit selection of filters and their order.

>Deconvolution is a process which uses the known properties of the
>imaging chain(s) [mathematical functions] that uses an image
>transform actually derived from measurement of the physical
>imaging systems in question.  One takes the image data in
>question, processes it deconvolves it, through the image
>transform which represents the physical imaging chain under
>investigation inorder to create a new image which reflects the
>changes created by the actual imaging chain itself and not an
>arbitrary selection of filters and operations.

Gary-

Could you explain the advantage of modifying the image to look
more like the one that the Viking had taken so many years ago?  I
had thought the hope was for a better image that would show more
detail and prove once and for all that the "Face" was not a
natural formation.  Of course I'm not an expert, and perhaps the
purpose would be to show how the (alleged) natural formation
could have appeared as a "face" in the Viking image.

Hoagland has raised the issue of whether or not some of the image
detail was withheld by NASA, but I would like to see NASA's
response to that complaint.

If I remember correctly, NASA decided to take these images and
release them for the purpose of public relations, and not
necessarily as a pursuit of "the truth".  As far as NASA (at
least publicly) is concerned, there's no question that the
formations are natural and since three passes would allow them to
image the Cydonia region, they decided to pacify the consistant
thorn in their side.  They didn't make any major changes in the
mission, and since Cydonia wasn't actually targetted, the angle
of the first image is far different than that of the Viking.

As mentioned by a few others on this List, we need to see the
images from the next two passes before we begin this debate in
earnest.  If the "pyramids" and other formations that have been
identified as the "city" appear to be natural formations, the
conversation here will become far more heated.

Steve

PS-  Yes, I've read the McDaniel Report, and attended the
Hoagland Press Briefing in Washington, DC when he announced that
he would show astronauts walking among the "ruins", and the
theories described are interesting.

However, both had called for new images of the area to help prove
their contentions, and now that is being done.  Unfortunately for
them, those images may do the opposite.







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               Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 08:01:31 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:21:56 -0400
Subject: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

>Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 23:02:51 -0400
>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:36:28 -0700 (PDT)
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>>Subject: UPN's "Danger in our Skies" and holographs

>>From what I gather, the main alternative UPN presented to the
>>reality of that UFO event was the idea that it was a holographic
>>projection, put on by some U.S. military research group that
>.figured Mexico City and its smog was a good place to test it.  >

>>Now, it seems, any important UFO sighting, witnessed and
>>photographed/video-taped, is subject to that explanation,
>>especially if a light beam of any sort is seen to emanate from
>>the UFO.>

> [...]

>Unfortunately, peopel don't understand the term as used in
>physics. You can't "project" a 3-D image from a hologram....  a
>hologram is like a piece of film that can be used with COHERENT
>light (single frequency) to create within the eye of the observer
>who looks IN THE DIRECTION OF THE LIGHT SOURCE (OR IN THE
>DIRECTION OF A REFLECTION OF THE LIGHT SOURCE) the impression of
>an image "floating in space."   A holographic image is a real
>image...can be photographed from several angles/
>It is the reconstruction of light waves reflected from a 3-D
>object.

>Anyway, the suggestion that the Mex. Aug 6 video shows a hologram
>of some object is less believable (if you can believe that) than
>that the Roswell witnesses were unwitting "victims" of a "dummy
>drop".

>(You recall last summer's "dummy drop" theory of the Roswell
>bodies.) The suggestion is made that the smog somehow made the
>"hologram" visible.   Had there been a dense cloud and had it
>been night time then it woul have been possible to project some
>light image on the  cloud and creat the impression of some
>lighted object. You cannot  project "darkness".... yet the UFO
>image is darker than the sky  background.Thus you would have to
>assume that the "hologram"  sucked light out of the atmosphere
>within a volume that defines the size of the UFO.The "dark side"
>may be powerful.... but not that  powerful.
>Bottom line:  not a hologram or any trick of light projection.

Thanks very much, Bruce, for pointing out these things. It is too
bad that UPN didn't have anyone like you on their program to
bring in some common sense.

In this case, then, it would have been necessary for the
laser-beam projectionists to have a large mirror positioned up in
the sky directing the image to the video camera on the roof top,
and other such mirrors directing it to each of the witnesses?

Jim Deardorff






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                       Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:50:04 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:19:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

>Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 09:31:34 -0700
>From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

>Hi John,

>Okay, I do absolutely agree that the most important reason to
>assume there are any artificial structures in the Cydonia-region
>always were the pyramidlike structures. But, what I wonder is the
>following:

>Have you ever seen the structure you find in some semi-precious
>stones? Just take a look at the natural shape of raw crystals or
>amethyst and on the endings of these stones you can also find,
>almost pyramidlike shapes.

>So it seems that even these shapes don't HAVE to be artificial.

>Now though, it almost looks like no ufologist has ever believed
>or was interested in the "Face", and that doesn't seem true to
>me! C'mon know yourselves and admit that just like me, we're
>really all hoping the "city" is turning out what we hoped to
>be...

>But were are we gonna take it when the City also turnes out to be
>nothin' at all...Let's all make sure to keep all our sences and
>don't bring in Illuminati, New World Orders or nuclair
>destruction of Mars,..

>No if there isn't any face, if there aren't any pyramids... SO
>WHAT, we made a mistake.

>Now it's up to us to deal with the matter, and what about doing
>that unlike scientists who make mistakes, and just ADMIT IT.
>Science should be progressive and NOT dogmatic.

>Bye from Holland,
>Andy Denne, A.U.R.A.


Andy,

Right on, my man!

But who said anything about science?  This is religion, man, and
we all had better watch out or we'll be made heretics and burned
at the stake!

After all, faces and pyramids are a lot more fun than rocks and
sand.

Hey, BTW, has anybody noticed how much that mesa looks like an
Egyptian scarab beetle if you rotate it, mirror the sides,
increase the contrast, stretch it, and invert it to a
negative???

That must prove some connection.

Bob








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                     Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

From: "Lloyd Bayliss" <Lloyd@gwent-tertiary.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 15:21:47 0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:24:14 -0400
Subject: Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

Hello List,

This Cydonia thing ain't half bringing people out of the woodwork
- me included!!!

> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:51:30 -0500 (CDT)
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Mike Morton <morton@spdc.ti.com>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

> > Subject: My Conclusion on the Mars Face.
> > Date: Tue, 7 Apr 98 02:01:20 -0500
> > From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com>
> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>

<Snip>

> > NASA has played no game. There ain't no face, there
> > ain't no pyramids, there ain't nothing there to convince
> > me that that there is anything but natural formations.

> > For those who may doubt, I will soon post my image studies
> > and you can draw your own conclusions.

> Of Course there aren't any pyramids in the new picture the
> Pyramids are a few miles away frmo the face. All the media
> attention has been wrongfully saying the face was supposedly
> surrounded by pyramids....NOT so. The pyramids have not been
> photographed yet!

> As for the face yes I too beleive they photographed the correct
> region and it is in fact a natural formation. But as some have
> always held...myself included...was that the face was most
> probably the best candidate to be an actual "natural" formation.
> Once they show the pyramids in the "City" and the "D&M pyramid"
> then the case can be closed...but as it stands right now....this
> is far from over.

Just like to add my support to this opinion, there's an awful lot
more to the Cydonia region than a hill that looks like a face, be
it natural or artificial.  The whole region needs to be
re-photographed and amongst other things, the staggering
mathematics done once again on the new images before all of this
research is binned.

Just my humble opinion :)
---
Lloyd Bayliss
Network Administrator, Gwent Tertiary College, Ebbw Vale
Tel: 01495 333029   email: lloyd@gwent-tertiary.ac.uk








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                     Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 11:03:45 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:22:55 -0400
Subject: Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

>Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 01:42:49 -0400
>From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com> [Gary Alevy]
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

>Pat

>NASA did not image the region of the "pyramids" in the first set
>of images.  So what do you base that statement on?

>As for games.... the images were shown as negative images
>relative to the Viking images.  This is well known to alter ones
>perception of relief of objects.  Moreover released image data
>was not corrected for geometry which shows up as the elliptical
>distortion present in the crater included with the "face" image.

>I don't care if the object is a mesa or a face, displaying the
>image that way is gamesmanship and misleading the public which is
>not trained to know about these effects.

>Gary

Gamesmanship???????

They showed the image just as they recorded it.  It is not
a negative, it just has the light coming from the opposite
direction.  That happens when you photograph something at
different times.

The only gamesmanship I see is from those who refuse to
admit they were wrong.

Bob








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               Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 12:00:15 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:38:09 -0400
Subject: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

>Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 02:32:04 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John <jvif@spacelab.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

>>Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:36:28 -0700 (PDT)
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>>Subject: UPN's "Danger in our Skies" and holographs

>>Hello All,

>Jim writes,

><snip>

>>Would it require the intersection of two laser beams to do the
>>trick? If so, how would that work?

>I'm sure that you'll hear from experts but from what little I
>know of laser imaging (two) beams are needed. One is a reference
>beam while the other carries the graphic data.

>Where the two beams intersect is where the image is formed.
>(I think! <G>) I'm sure we'll get the straight dope soon enough.

><snip>

>>The other alternative hypothesis to a genuine UFO, of course, is
>>that of a carefully crafted computer simulation with planted
>>witnesses acting out their stories.

>According to the two special effects guys that they contracted to
>analyze the tape there was no "computer fakery" detectable by
>them. One of them did say that he thought that the UFO was
>suspended on a cable from a helicopter, but both agreed that
>-whatever it was- was actually there on the scene as it was
>videotaped. Ergo, not an "add on" or a "special effect."

>Smoking gun? I think it's the best we've seen yet, but then I'm
>no video expert. Spooky thing to watch though. It was a big one!

>Peace,

>John Velez

If memory serves, the "specialists" that discussed the hologram
concept were responding to questions related to an image
connected to the Phoenix sightings, and not the Mexico City
video.  Holograms were discussed during the Mexico video segment,
but not by the "experts" that testified about the U.S.
Government's involvement in that research.

I think that one of the two SFX experts mentioned one section of
the video where the edge of the craft appears to break up, but
that wasn't pursued.
On the other hand, they did mention that the "zoom" effect was
very difficult to duplicate and appears to be seamless, if the
video was indeed faked.  This would seem to indicate that an
object did exist in the sky where it is seen on the video.  If
you refer to Bruce Maccabee's research (published in the current
issue of the MUFON Journal) he detected no residual swing in the
object, which would have been the case if it was being suspended
on a long cable and moved from one position to another.
This analysis would tend to rule out the hoax proposal offered by
the skeptical "expert".  I believe that Bruce posted a portion of
his article on this "list" a couple of weeks ago.

My initial reaction was the same as Bruce's first impression, in
that it was an obvious fake.  On the other hand, careful analysis
is making that a difficult position to maintain.  Bruce will be
speaking at the Mid-Atlantic UFO Symposium next month in
Bethesda, Maryland and I would assume that the Mexico City Video
will be his topic.

Steve

PS-  David Jacobs and Col. Halt are also scheduled speakers at
the May event, and if anyone wants detail let me know.









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   Apr > Apr 10

                      Re: Water Found on Saturn's Moon

From: Kal K. Korff [TotlResrch@aol.com]
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 12:27:40 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:41:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Water Found on Saturn's Moon

Recently, Joe Murgia wrote:

<snip>

>I thought that somebody like YOU, [Kal] who is such a scientific
>investigator, would understand that the important photos from
>Cydonia haven't even been taken yet. I guess not.

>Do some research Kal. It will do you some good. No
>theories have been gutted yet.

>Joe


Dear Joe:

Obviously, YOU are misinformed. Perhaps you missed Dr. Mark
Carlotto's statement recently that he is prepared to admit that
the "face" is a NATURAL FORMATION?

I guess you apparently did!

Is that "scientific" enough for you, Joe??

Furthermore, would you care to make a $1,000.00 bet with me that
NO face will be found? I would place this bet that no face will
be found, and you are free to take the "believer" side that a
face will be found. Do you accept this challenge?

Why not put your money where your mouth is?, as the saying
goes??

Of course, ANYONE, especially Richard Hoagland, who would say
that the face WAS a real face in the first place, is simply
making statements NOT derivable from the existing data. The
original images were simply too ill-defined to be 100%
conclusive.

THANKS for calling me "such a scientific investigator," I am GLAD
you realize this at least.

The main point of my posting, by the way, was to let everyone
know about the new, exciting discovery (claimed by science) of
water on one of Saturn's moons.

I guess you missed this point as well.

Instead of taking issue with me, why don't you go bother
Hoagland, who, at this rate, is going to have to backpedal from
lots of claims (and part of his livelihood) about Mars.

I also predict, no artificial "pyramids" and other such nonsense
will be found.

I sincerely hope I am WRONG on this.

Sincerely,

Kal (Looking forward to REAL science continuing to solve this
"mystery,"....which was never much of one in the first place),
Korff






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                          Re: Extraterrestrial Cafe

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:06:23 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:43:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Cafe

>Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 02:24:49 -0400
>From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com> [Gary Alevy]
>To: UFO UpDate <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Cafe

>> Posted by : Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)

>> >From the New York Post. URL:

>> http://www.nypostonline.com:80/040698/gossip/999.htm

>> *******

>> PAGE SIX

>> By RICHARD JOHNSON with Jeane MacIntosh

>> <snipped>

>> PLANET Hollywood, Hard Rock Cafe, Fashion Cafe, Harley-Davidson Cafe,
>> Comedy Nation, Television City and all the other theme restaurants may
>> be in for some other-worldly competition. With the millennium
>> approaching, Michael Luckman, director of the New York Center for UFO
>> Research, hopes to build an extravagant Extraterrestrial Cafe in Times
>> Square. The joint will feature a Mars Bar, a live "all alien" band, TV
>> monitors beaming the latest UFO sightings, and waitresses in futuristic
>> metallic outfits and flying saucer hats. Luckman, who says the
>> Sphinx-like face found on Mars could be "the biggest scientific
>> discovery in human history," is pitching his idea to investors.

>> <snipped>

>> Copyright (c) 1998, N.Y.P. Holdings, Inc. All rights reserved.

>> Posted by : Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)

>Stig,

>Have you ever checked if there is such an organization?

>There is no phone listing or mail address in New York City for
>the so called "New York Center for UFO Research".  Micheal
>Luckman is a publicist with a phone line and an answering machine
>that doesn't return calls inquiring about this so called
>organization.

>He does have some connection or 'in' with the New York Post as
>they do periodically publish comments or press releases by him
>and this so called organization from time to time.  What for or
>what purpose is unclear.

>Does anyone have some background information on this
>organization?

>Gary

Hiya Gary,

Yeah, the "organization" consists of _one_ member. Mike Luckman!
Mr Luckless is the same guy that organized the UFO artshow here
in NY last year and occasionally calls press conferences to
advertize one of his UFO 'sideshow' extravaganzas. The guy is a
joke.

He's obviously looking to set himself up in business using
somebody elses money and nothing more. Although it isn't such a
bad idea! Might even turn a profit here in Fun City! <G>

John Velez








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                     Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl>
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 15:37:26 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:47:28 -0400
Subject: Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face


> Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 07:51:15 -0500
> From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

> > From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia]
> > Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 00:49:09 EDT
> > To: updates@globalserve.net
> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

> > >Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 15:29:22 -0400
> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> > >From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

> > >I will once again go way out on a limb and predict that there is
> > >no city, no fort, and no pyramids.  Once the area is photographed
> > >what will be seen is a bunch of ugly-ass rocks and barren
> > >desert.

> > >I can't wait.

> > >Bob

> > Gee Bob, I thought you said that you would love to be proven
> > wrong on this matter.

> ...And he *sounded* so sincere...

> > Sounds like your the one who is entrenched
> > in a belief that all the objects in question are natural.

> I, too, noticed the undisguised, inappropriate, and
> counterproductive glee of those so quick to dance around the
> fiery Cydonian stake. Mr. Shell pretends to be broadminded, but
> his relief, and the relief of others, is abundantly apparent.

> > They may be natural but we need to wait before we know more. By
> > the way, what technical articles have you read regarding the
> > objects on Mars? Have you read any of them or is your belief so
> > strong that the objects are natural that you won't even look at
> > the serious work that has been done? Turn the other way & don't
> > even look!

> That is the way of it for -- sure. There is comfort (for most) in
> standing with the rest to laugh and tease at the unknown and
> frightening Quasimodo, but Quasimodo was quite real, in the
> literature anyway, wasn't he? Mr. Shell pretends that there is
> some actual *looking* going on in, and by, our respected (but
> closed) institutions, and the information is, *of course*
> dissiminated to us in a *completely* forthcoming manner.
> Respectfully, -- blather-wah , and requiring no citation.

> > This sounds like the same people who wouldn't look at the crazy
> > Wright Bros. new flying object because lighter than air flight
> > was impossible and the Wright Bros. had to be hoaxers. Man, does
> > history repeat itself or what?

> > Joe

> Maybe not this time Joe. Too many guys like you and me want to
> read all the way to the period. Thanks for the --"HEY! WAIT a
> minute"!

> Lehmberg@snowhill.com

Hi,

I think you should hold it there people... Now I agree, the way
Bob brings his opinion is maybe a little rough as I stumbled over
it aswell, but c'mon, We (by now, that is, as we had to wait a
little longer to view them...) have probably been lookin' at the
same piictures, and from the first picture I had the same ideas
than you, but after having seen the other available versions and
some advice from my American collegues (by the way thank you!)I
can't see anything more than rocks and sand...

But before we are all putting each other down for reacting a
little too enthusiastically (after all, we probably ALL did...) I
for my part will not conclude anything about Mars untill we have
a clear shot of the entire Cydonia-region, that way we could save
us a lot of energy and a lot of trouble!


Peace...
Andy Denne
(A.U.R.A.)aura.aa@wxs.nl








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   Apr > Apr 10

                         Re: Cydonia image available

From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl>
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 15:44:03 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:49:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Cydonia image available


> Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 23:00:49 -0700
> From: "Terry J. Blanton" <commengr@bellsouth.net>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Cydonia image available

> Andy Denne wrote:

> > Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 20:49:31 -0700
> > From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl>
> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Cydonia image available

> > But I wonder howcome we only get to see a picture, allegedly of
> > the "Face", that is is taken in such a position that tells us
> > really zip!

> Hi Andy!  It's good to hear from our European colleagues!  The
> angle of the photograph is a result of the position of the
> spacecraft.  The ground controllers have little control of this
> once the spacecraft enters orbit.  To change the location of the
> craft requires huge expenditures of station keeping fuel.
> Personally, I am amazed that NASA was able to hit the face on the
> first pass.  (Good job, NASA!)

> > As you probably noticed there is a clear crater, close to the
> > left side of the face in the Viking-pictures, well now, in the
> > MGS-pictures the alleged "Face" is photografed in such an angle
> > that it's quite difficult to make out wether it really IS the
> > face-like structure. And why doesn't anybody wonder why we didn't
> > get to see any pictures of the "pyramids"?

> I love a conspiracy as much as anyone.  I am as disappointed with
> the results of the imaging as anyone.  However, I am quite
> confident that we are looking at the correct location.  There are
> actually two craters which correspond with the Viking image
> relative to the "face".  Visit the website of the company who
> does the processing and look at the evidence.  It's at:

> http://barsoom.msss.com/

> > Another thing that I noticed on the picture we got to see on the
> > evening news (I video-taped it so I could take a closer look at
> > it) is the fact that the outside band-like structure of the
> > "Face" really was to low and to flat and smooth compared by the
> > initial viking-pictures?

> Andy, look at some of the later enhancements.  I have compared
> the raw data of the Viking images with the later enhancements and
> find the same relationships as we see with the MGS images.  The
> contrast and depth of the raw data is poor on both.  The
> enhancements are required to give the correct perspective to the
> image.

> It's tough to give up on something that we have loved for so many
> years; but, let's face it (ugh!) . . . it's not a face.

> Be water or dust the source of our birth
> There's no man in the Moon
> There's no face on Mars
> And it's quite qestionable
> If there's intelligence on Earth.

> Terry
> (My Opinion)


Hi Terry,

This comment of mine was actually posted a bit too early...I
guess... No after I looked into other repro's of the pictures I
can only agree, No face, too bad and about the part on
intellegent life on earth...get's me...here in Holland we haven't
found too much  of that so far!!! :-) But thanks for the reaction
anyway...

Andy.
(A.U.R.A.)







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                       Re: Mars Face, yes it's there!

From: "PHD: Feanturi" <ATKMajic@iname.com>
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 17:37:50 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:08:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Face, yes it's there!

Bob,

You got me so steamed, I didn't even finish. ;-)

Once again, I didn't play with the images. I've encouraged people
who have made similar comments to take the time and duplicate the
results.
Rotate 37 degrees, copy left half, mirror it, paste over right
half.
That's it. No gamma correcting, histogram stretching, brightness
or contrast adjustments to make the features more striking. Just
the NASA original, handled as stated above.

At least three of those who originally were blasting me have
tried it, and then apologised. They may not have been convinced
it "proves anything", hell, I don't say it proves anything
either, unless it's just the point that there is more of intrest
there than first meets the eye.
However, they at least were kind enough to take back comments
that I had "played with the images to get a result I wanted". I
didn't have to try ten different spins on this thing to get
something I liked, I did it, first try, and can't keep from going
back and just looking at the damn thing.

Please take the effort to duplicate it before you start accusing
me of playing with anything. NASA has "doctored" the image with
the released enhancement at a level of magnitude, or three, more
than I have here.

Thanks,
Fiontar

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                       Re: Mars Face, yes it's there!

From: "PHD: Feanturi" <ATKMajic@iname.com>
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 17:26:50 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:06:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Face, yes it's there!


> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 09:05:53 -0400
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Mars Face, yes it's there!

> >From: ATKMajic@iname.com, Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
> >To: updates@globalserve.net
> >Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 00:46:17 +0200
> >Subject: Fwd: Mars Face Turned Straight Up And Down

> >Received via "alt.paranet.ufo" April 7 at 10.51 local time (GMT + 1
> >hour). To view Fiontar McEoghan's latest results, go directly to

> >http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/4470/fom.htm
> >Good luck!

> >Stig

> >*******

> >Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 20:10:21 -0400
> >From: PHD: Feanturi <ATKMajic@iname.com>
> >Subject: Mars Face, yes it's there!
> >Message-ID: <352AC06C.69A3C03@iname.com>

> >Hi All,

> >I've posted some images on the web that I think everyone needs to
> >see before deciding on the "Face" on Mars. The human eye is a
> >funny thing, and the tilt to the face formation makes it
> >particularly hard to discern the features. So, first I rotated
> >the image to the right 37 degrees, so the face is straight up and
> >down. It makes things much clearer.

> >If it was a face created by someone, it was clear from the image
> >that the right side had been damaged much worse than the left, so
> >I mirrored the left side onto the right, to see what it might
> >look like symmetrically, and was very shocked how clear it was.
> >Other than the rotation, and the mirroring, NO other alterations
> >were made. I think the results deserve a look, and some
> >consideration.

> >Let me know what you think:

> >http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/4470/

> >Thanks,
> >Fiontar McEoghan

> >Please note, I'm not drawing any conclusions, but the results are
> >at least consistant with a face.

> What I think is that if you play enough games with this image of
> a mesa, you can make it look like anything.

> What is that supposed to prove?

> Bob


Bob,

I didn't "play games" with anything. The formation has been
supposed by some to be a face. If it was a face, it's obvious now
that there is uneven wear on the two halves. So, we want to see
if it even looks like a face. We rotate the image to see it
upright, to make it easier to discern if it is face like. It's a
lot easier to see how this thing could have been thought to be a
face by looking at it upright.

I'm trying to go slow, so you can understand. ;-)

Now, even though you can now see how this formation could have
looked face like in the Viking image, it's clear that the lack of
perfect symmetry, perhaps caused by uneven erosion or wear
(remember, this thing could be millions of years old, we don't
really know, do we?), is preventing the human eye from seeing
"the face".

If we uncovered a sphinx in the deserts of egypt, and half the
face had mostly crumbled away, we would mirror the image at the
central vertical axis to see what it might have looked like
whole.

We have a picture of this face like thing on Mars, it doesn't
make any less sense to apply the same analysis.

We take the rotated "face", mirror the left side onto the right,
and we get a symmetrical image. Because this perfect symmetry is
not there to begin with, this isn't going to prove to anyone it
ever once looked like the result. However, if we had mirrored it,
and not received such an incredible result, the possibility it
ever was a face would be much more remote.

No other manipulation was done to the image, in fact it is more
true to the original data than the NASA enhanced image. They did
some serious fiddling there.

I've seen all the sites based on the Viking images of the Cydonia
region, and even though I tried to be open minded, it really
seemed they were reading way to much into some very blurry
images. This result, how ever, is very clear.

We are left with probabilities once again. Is it possible a
natural formation, mirrored on the central axis, could produce
such an image?
Maybe. But the image produced is so many steps above the "virgin
Mary in the wood knot", or "Jesus in the water stain" variety
that it must be considered at least very peculiar.

Skeptics have accused others of seeing what they want to see. If
the results had looked like a lump of clay, with rough bumps
where the eyes, nose and mouth would be, I would have said,
"yeah, it's just a hill".
However, that's not what we got. If the eyes had been vertical,
or way out of proportion, if the brows or the cheek bones went of
at strange angles, if the mouth and chin weren't perfectly
aligned, I'd say we were just trying real hard to see something
that was there.

We aren't talking about results that look like a face in a
Picasso, we are talking about a very detailed, human/ simian
face, not to mention that it "just happens" to have something
that looks like an Egyptian Head Dress, etc...

I think that the skeptic's standard applies to you, in that you
are refusing to see what you don't want to see.

I leave it up to the Geologists and Mathematicians to determine
just how improbable these result are to occur naturally, but
there is something very profound in those images that at least
deserves the proper investigation.

Thanks for your comments,
Fiontar McEoghan



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                       A Few Comments on Real Science

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 16:50:04 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:02:12 -0400
Subject: A Few Comments on Real Science

I forward this for information and comment:


From: mars_updates-approval@world.std.com
From: "Giuseppe" <russellp@iafrica.com>

Good day all, I wanted to point out a few things which although
obvious, often tend to be forgotten in light of new and exciting
information. Let us for a moment forget about exactly why the new
NASA images ARE exciting, (regardless in other words of whether
it is because they are fake/real and prove/disprove
conspiracy/artificiality etc.) and focus on the scientific
method. I use the word *scientific* here to identify not people
who have a piece of paper hanging from a wall that says they are
qualified to be scientists, but rather, the more correct term,
meaning, the method where a theory is based on premises, where
those premises have been tested logically, and passed the tests,
and hence, logical deductions, based on those premises can be
formed. Those deductions in turn similarly require logical
testing and so on. It is utterly irrelevant under this system
whether one has a degree in astrophysics or not, therefore, with
respect to pointing out how this or that person is making
illogical statements, one should be concerned not so much with
their qualifications as issued by an institution, but with the
'qualification' they themselves express vis a vis the ability to
perform logical analysis, commonly referred to as scientific
work.

In this respect then, I would like to make a few comments
regarding the Cydonia hypothesis and how this relates to the
comments of certain individuals on this list.

The Face and nearby structures (in the form of Viking Images)
have undergone extensive scientific testing with respects to the
likelyhood of their being artificial in nature. This testing
extends over a period of more than 20 years and includes
contributors from several fields. I borrow a partial list from
Dave, there actually have been more contributions than these, but
it is not really necessary to dig up every last one. Interested
parties could probably get a general overview by reading
Carlotto's latest book and the McDaniel report, and being aware
that their work is not only repeatable, but it is UNFALSIFIABLE,
that is the correctness of their work is NOT in question.

Arguments FOR artificiality: * Fractal analysis of the Face and
other features (Carlotto & Stein) * Photoclinometric analysis of
the Face (Carlotto, DiPietro & Molenaar) * 3D and
shape-from-shading analysis of the Face (Carlotto) * Extensive
statistical analysis of mounds near "City" (Crater) * Geometric
modeling and analysis of D&M Pyramid (Torun) * Astronomical
analysis (Martian pole shift) and socio-relevant positioning of
Face (Van Flandern) * Extensively documented history of NASA
obfuscation of Cydonia research, including repeated use of
misleading statements in official letters to Congress (McDaniel,
Hoagland)

** Institutions represented by researchers:  The Analytical
Sciences Corp (TASC), Tennessee Space Institute, Defense Mapping
Agency, Celestial Mechanics Branch of the Naval Observatory

It is important to note that when I say the list includes
contributors from several fields, I am referring ONLY to those
persons that have validated themselves by showing their
willingness to follow the scientific method as outlined above.
The National Enquirer for example does NOT fall within this
category. More surprising however is that neither does Carl
Sagan, since in the infamous article he wrote on the Face he lied
about the existence of 'another' frame that showed no Face
existed. Neither does NASA, as shown by the extensively
documented McDaniel Report.

In this respect then, we have the curious problem, that we are
relying on a body which has shown its willingness to LIE and
FALSIFY data for the retrieval of further data. It is a bit like
a scientist having to rely on a used car salesman for receiving
the values of engine performances. THIS should be the only thing
that requires qualification, and can possibly create confusion.

Furthermore, extensive logically tested work has been done that
goes beyond the artificiality issue. Anyone aware of the large
body of scientific work done on this issue cannot seriously deny
that the case for artificiality is strong. It is only normal then
that a few people will have wondered, well, then, let's say it IS
artificial and see where that leads us, and then see if THAT is
congruent with what we have already tested. In this respect then,
the conclusions one has to inevitably run up against is that
certain technological developments MUST exist. It's a long road
to go from the Face on Mars to machines capable of manipulating
gravity, but it is a logical and testable road. At this point
then, it will become obvious, that such technology IS potentially
deadly dangerous for the entire planet (as well as being
potentially the most beneficial thing to have come to the human
race in historical memory).

Mars itself, is a clear indication of what misuse of this type of
technology can reduce a planet to, so it is NOT surprising that a
cover-up relating to alien artifacts exists, because if they were
known about in general, enquiring, scientific persons would begin
to ask, where they originate from, what modes of transport they
used and so on, and from there, within a few short weeks or
months, you would have groups of people, institutions and
individuals all around the world trying to build such technology,
and sooner or later, antigravity machines would be built (I
should say refined, since T. T. Brown built crude versions until
the mid 1950s, when his work was classified by the US Navy.
(Patent numbers of his work available on request by the way)).

There is therefore, a clear and logical reason why 'the powers
that be' in the form of NASA employees (NSA inspired or
otherwise) would want to keep such knowledge hidden. The NASA
charter states as much and the Brookings report practically
spells it out, stating that amongst the religious nuts etc. one
of the things that would 'push society over the edge' (I'm
paraphrasing) would be the idea for the so called commoners that
their leaders are actually nothing but a bunch of puppets at the
mercy of a superior intelligence (in the form of little green men
or whatnot, regardless of whether they are actually here or not
presently).

In fact, in their position I would probably be taking very
similar action (ie keeping the thing under wraps to some degree
or other), for the sake of global safety if nothing else. On the
other hand, as anyone familiar with

the work done by the professor emeritus (biologist) Rupert
Sheldrake will know, morphic resonance will practically ensure
that antigravity machine knowledge WILL eventually 'leak' out. In
this respect it is far preferable to have a gradual and
consistent education of people to this technology, so that when
it finally IS introduced, the shock effect can be minimal (it
will still be huge, whichever route is taken, but a program of
education will minimise the resulting damage to humanity) which
is why I talk about this, rather than have a sudden culture shock
that Humanity would have very little chance of surviving.

In conclusion then, how all of this relates to the comments made
by certain persons is simply that it becomes relatively easy,
when the whole picture is taken into account, to spot
misinformationists. In certain cases, these may simply be people
ignorant of the science that has been undertaken and in this
regard, one can only point them in the direction of the tried and
tested scientific work which has been done. If they refuse to
look at the evidence, then of course they disqualify themselves
from further discussion. That is they may continue to babble but
one is no longer required to listen. The other type of
misinformationist on the other hand is someone that is employed
in the task of not only spreading disinformation, but the
'debunking' of that true and accurate science that HAS ALREADY
been done, as well as the prevention of meaningful discussion
taking place between members of the loosely associated humans who
follow the scientific method.

In this respect then it also becomes somewhat possible to
differentiate between the misinformed and the (slightly?) more
educated but conscious misinformationist.

I applaude JJ for not banning such persons from this list,
despite the fact that I am fairly sure that at least one of them
(and probably up to three or so) exists here. The reason I
applaude it is because these people too need education, if in a
slightly different format from the rest of the masses. While Mr.
Average may need to learn a lot more how to curb his idiocy so as
not to reduce Earth to a slag-heap first chance he gets to wield
incalculable power, the misinformationists need to learn a more
dynamic and relevant way of 'educating' the 'sheep', because
their methods, although tried and tested over the last 50 years
(as regards anti-g anyway) are becoming less and less valid by
the minute. In a dynamic system (the human race) a non-dynamic
system may temporarily succeed, but only temporarily, and it is
high time that the MIB (for want of a better term) learned that
it is time to chance system. from secrecy they have to start to
orient towards education, and even then, the TYPE of education is
important. It must, as much as possible be based in honesty. I am
probably way ahead of the times in describing this type of
'free-er', more 'honest', la-la-land type of society, but it is
important that the MIB understand that the need to begin to
implement this type of system is NOW, even if the real benefits
accrue only another 50 or 100 years down the line, because it is
a relatively SLOW system and requires the earliest
opportunity of implementation in order to have a reasonable
chance of success. The only other alternative (and the two can be
combined anyway) is the removal from Earth of the few who are in
possession of this technology, before the crisis point is
reached, but this will result in only a minority of humanity
'making it'.

I hope then that those that need to will get to read this message
in its entirety, and that it may have some bearing on their
future decisions.


Best Regards,

Giuseppe Filotto

PS: feel free to distribute this e-mail as you see fit, but
kindly do not alter it if doing so and include the source of
authorship.

People commenting to the post of course may snip to their heart's
content.

Regards to all (and Dean Adams fans in particular)








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   Apr > Apr 10

                         Tom Porter on #Visitations

From: Angela Shilling <angela@skipnet.com>
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 14:49:04 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:11:13 -0400
Subject: Tom Porter on #Visitations

Tom Porter, Mind Control Researcher, Will be a guest speaker on
#Visitations.

Saturday, April 11th 7pm Pacific / 9pm Central / 3am GMT

Where: #Visitations on the Undernet

How to Get to IRC: http://www.skipnet.com/~visitations/irc/


BIO:

INTRODUCTION:

I became interested in the topic of US government mind control
research about five years ago after a friend told me about being
a victim of this research. I currently host a web page called
DEEP BLACK MAGIC: US Govt.
Research into ESP & Mind Control:
http://www.mindspring.com/~txporter/

In the course of investigating Mind Control and ESP, I have been
fortunate enough to attend several conferences on anomalous
trauma, parapsychology, and ritual abuse. These conferences
allowed me to talk with other investigators, care givers and
veterans of these projects. Among the people I have come into
contact or corresponded with are Russell Targ, Willis Harmon,
Gen. Albert Stubblebine, Rima Leibow, Lyn Buchannan, Jack Houk,
Mark Phillips, Kathy O'Brien, Walter Bowart, Colin Ross, Randy
Noblitt, and Pam Perskin.

I attended the famous (notorious?) Presidents' Advisory Committee
on Human Radiation Experiments hearings where Claudia Mullens and
Chris De Nicola testified. From time to time I have spoken with
folks at the Rhine [parapsychology] Research Center in Durham NC,
since I was familiar with it from my school days at Duke.

After reading Colin Ross' presentation on George Estabrooks, I
spent a couple of days last summer at Colgate University going
through Estabrook's papers which are part of the university
library's special collection. I also spent some time at the
National Security Archive in Washington, DC going through John
Mark's notes for writing "The Search for The Manchurian
Candidate"

FROM MY WEB PAGES:

In the past several years there has been a great deal of interest
in the topics of Mind Control, Psychic Spying, Classified Human
Experimentation, and our government's role, if any, in such
unusual areas of research.
Nowhere has this interest been more obvious than on the Internet.
There is a tremendous amount of information about these topics
out there, and ultimately each reader must make their own
decisions about the validity of the information they find.

I have tried to show that the US Intelligence Community has had a
documented interest in these three areas, and that there is some
overlap between them. Many of the details of the CIA's MK-ULTRA
programs have been publicized since the Church hearings in the
70's. The CIA's interest in parapsychology has broken the surface
of the news several times since the 70's as well, but the fall of
1995 opened the floodgates concerning 'Psychic Spying' with the
announcements about projects 'Grill Flame' and 'Stargate.'
Classified human experimentation has been exposed in all its
horror with the Office of Human Radiation Experiments' reports on
50 years of human rights abuses in the name of science and the
cold war.

If one accepts Remote Viewing as an intelligence gathering
mechanism of unique capabilities, even if only sporadically, then
the question of how to control or limit its use by the Remote
Viewers certainly becomes relevant.
Even in the Intelligence Community itself, access to raw
intelligence and the methods of collection has always been
severely limited. Once the intellectual hurdles of accepting that
RV works had been overcome, I feel certain that the next items on
the agenda would be counter-measures and control of the remote
viewing assets.

Some of the discussion about mind control has centered on the use
of drugs and hypnosis for gaining control of an individual and
modifying their behavior. Both of these avenues of research were
strenuously pursued by the CIA. As can be seen on my site, a
prominent hypnotist has admitted going so far as to create whole
alternate personalities for intelligence agents during WWII.
There is a substantial debate raging these days over whether
severe physical and psychological trauma during childhood can
cause the creation of alternate or multiple personalities as
well, through much the same mechanism as hypnosis, namely
dissociation.

Anthropologists, as well as therapists working with multiple
personality disorder, have discovered links between trauma and
parapsychological abilities. Parapsychology archives are full of
reports where tragedies and accidents triggered parapsychological
events of all kinds. Even anecdotal reports from combat soldiers
support the connection between trauma, stress, and
parapsychology.

I feel that the US Intelligence Community has long been aware of
these relationships and has specifically made use of drugs,
hypnosis, stress, and trauma-based conditioning to:

a. enhance the extended perception abilities of certain
experimental subjects, and

b. control and compartmentalize these abilities via hypnotic
suggestion and the creation of alternate personalities so that
they would not easily be available to the subject, but only upon
approval by authorized intelligence officers.

I believe that my web pages show this speculation is at least
worth considering, and that the US Intelligence Community has had
the motive, the opportunity, and the means






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   Apr > Apr 10

                  Re: Phil Klass to discuss UFO Abductions

From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl>
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 22:58:29 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:21:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Phil Klass to discuss UFO Abductions

> From: "Yvonne Hedenland" <vonni_h@email.msn.com>
> To: <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Phil Klass to discuss UFO Abductions
> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 08:53:28 -0500

> UFO Abductions:  A Dangerous Game?

> Tuesday, April 14th, at 6pm pt, the UFO Forums
> guest will be America's favorite debunker, Phil
> Klass.

> Klass agrees that alleged abductees are victims,
> but not of aliens. They have been deceived,  instead,
> by abduction researchers, who in the process of
> promoting themselves are determined to see alien
> intrusions regardless of the facts.


Oh yeah, that's just what we needed, a blind man trying to lead
the way, an elephant in the closet full of china ...

Wonder when we just simply stop listening to and wasting our
precious energy on debunkers like Klass. They're not about to say
something of any interest nor will they ever do their homework
properly, so why bother.

I've had several "dicussions" with Marcel Hulspas, one of
Holland's most irritating debunkers. On one of these occasions,
after three times trying to get any answers out of his mouth
instead of answering them he looked at his watch (in a filled
lecture-hall!) and opened his mouth. I saw several people in the
audience go :" he's going to answer...he really is..." hell no!!!
He was about to announce he had to go cause otherwise he'd miss
his train! Now, THAT's a scientific answer!

For all the money these people get for their idiotic allegations
they should at least can affort a hotel-room, one would say...

I don't actually know why the hell I'm telling you this...just a
little story from Holland I guess...  :-)

Andy.






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   Apr > Apr 10

                    Re: Cydonia Image Obscured By Clouds

From: morris@#$%.to.spam, Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:59:29 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:26:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Cydonia Image Obscured By Clouds

Received via "alt.alien.visitors" April 9 at 07.41 local time (Gmt + 1
hour).

I have added the most relevant part of Malin's page on the new
image, but do go to the page itself! There's a lot of
indispensable information.


Stig

*******

Literally.  Malin Space Sciences reports that a wide-angled shot
shows significant cloud cover over the area when the photo of the
Face was taken. This explains why nothing was visible in the raw
image, and even the enhanced image showed poor detail. It also
means that some of the whitish areas may have been clouds rather
than surface featires.

Paul

--
Email: lastname at best dot com. (no spam please)


Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 21:40:21 -0800
From: morris@#$%.to.spam (Paul Morris)
Subject: Clouds over Cydonia
Message-ID: <morris-0804982140210001@morris.vip.best.com>

*******


>From the site of "Malin Space Science Systems" who made the Mars
Orbiter Camera. URL:

http://www.msss.com/mars/global_surveyor/camera/images/4_6_face_release/
index.html

The link is preceded by an asterisk

*******


Mars Global Surveyor
Mars Orbiter Camera


Mars Orbiter Camera Views the "Face on Mars"


Shortly after midnight Sunday morning (5 April 1998 12:39 AM
PST), the Mars Orbiter Camera (MOC) on the Mars Global Surveyor
(MGS) spacecraft successfully acquired a high resolution image of
the "Face on Mars" feature in the Cydonia region. The image was
transmitted to Earth on Sunday, and retrieved from the mission
computer data base Monday morning (6 April 1998). The image was
processed at the Malin Space Science Systems (MSSS) facility 9:15
AM and the raw image immediately transferred to the Jet
Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) for release to the Internet. The
images shown here were subsequently processed at MSSS.

The picture was acquired 375 seconds after the spacecraft's 220th
close approach to Mars. At that time, the "Face", located at
approximately 40.8=95 N, 9.6=95 W, was 275 miles (444 km) from the
spacecraft. The "morning" sun was 25=95 above the horizon. The
picture has a resolution of 14.1 feet (4.3 meters) per pixel,
making it ten times higher resolution than the best previous
image of the feature, which was taken by the Viking Mission in
the mid-1970's. The full image covers an area 2.7 miles (4.4 km)
wide and 25.7 miles (41.5 km) long.


Weather Conditions at the Time of Imaging

Winter clouds cover much of the northern hemisphere of Mars above
40=95 N latitude at this time of the martian year. An image of the
Viking Lander 2 site (at 44=95 N) taken just over a day ago was
completely obscured by clouds. The image below shows a color
composite made from the red and blue wide angle cameras (the
green component is synthesized from the average of the red and
blue frames). The small box marks the location of the high
resolution image. As can be seen, fortuitously, the area imaged
was relatively clear, although the lack of surface definition in
many nearby areas, and the low contrast of the raw MOC high
resolution image, suggests haze or fog over much of the area.

*Color Wide Angle Image of Cydonia taken at same time as High
Resolution Image
654 KB JPEG





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   Apr > Apr 10

                  Re: Neg Reversal of Mars Images by NASA?

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:02:34 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:24:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Neg Reversal of Mars Images by NASA?


>Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 09:33:59 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Neg Reversal of Mars Images by NASA - Mistake
>or Mislead?

>>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 23:30:44 +0200
>>Subject: Fwd: Reversed Mars Images by NASA : mistake or mislead ?????


>>Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 22:13:23 GMT
>>From: Alex Krivenysh <krivenysh@geocities.com>
>>Subject: Reversed Mars Images by NASA : mistake or mislead ?????
>>Message-ID: <352AA4DF.6513@geocities.com>

>>Reversed Mars Images by NASA : mistake or mislead ?????

>>Images of Mars released by NASA is a Negative(reverse) Images of actual
>>photos. (I discovered  it 14 hours ago). Using Graphic program I
>>reversed the "Negative" image of the 'Face on Mars' and one can see
>>completely different picture, very much the same as photo taken in late
>>70s. On NASA's released photo(left image), the "large sunken area"
>>which looks like "eye"- actually is a "butte"(top) of eyebrow. On
>>"processed" photo(right image)- after my performing of reversed
>>negative image" - one can clearly see eyes, nose and mouth on the
>>photo.

><snipped>

>No, no, no.  It is NOT a negative image.  The light is just coming
>from a different direction.

>Get real, people!

>Bob


Hi Bob and list members!

Just to put things straight. I didn't post Alexander
Krivenyshev's or McEoghan's theories about the "Mars Face" to
endorse them in any way, but to give an impression of the
discussion that is going on.

Of course the possibility, that NASA, as part of a conspiracy,
would commit the transparent fraud of posting a negative, is
nonexistent, but McEoghan's idea of turning the face 37 degrees
so that it is seen straight up and down, seems excellent to me.


Stig






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                   Hoagland on Art Bell 4-6-98 - Excerpts

From: "Keith Woodard" <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:40:00 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:54:52 -0400
Subject: Hoagland on Art Bell 4-6-98 - Excerpts

Program beginning 4-6-98.  Words in brackets are mine, otherwise all
are Hoagland's unless otherwise indicated.

Source:
 http://ww2.audionet.com/artbell/archive.html

2:11
[Recommends acquiring his video "The Monuments of Mars," in
which] you will see a whole series of photos, not only the
original raw data, but the enhancements, what Carlotto has done,
and what you'll see, in hard copy, is some very important
prepared images that are duplicates, in simulation, of the photo
that came down this morning.  And that's very important.  Because
they did get the face.  For everyone out there who doesn't
understand what they're seeing, they nailed it.  And that's the
good news.  And I'll explain why that's the good news in a
minute.

The reason it looks so unfamiliar, so bizarre, so bad, is it's,
as one of your callers said earlier, it's a really bad picture.
It's a lousy picture.  It is so far below the standards of NASA
that I have come to know and love over the years, that frankly I
would be ashamed, if I were a NASA employee tonight, to basically
tell anybody in the average bar.

2:13
I can tell you unequivocally we've now identified every single
thing in the strip, and he did nail it.  He got it exactly where
I would have wanted it.

2:15
The reason this [morning processed image] is so bad, Art, is it's
an incredibly noisy picture.

2:17
Out of 256 grey levels, it [the morning raw image] is only
playing with 75.  In other words, two-thirds of the data that
should be in this image is missing.  It's history.  It's gone.
It's been discarded.  It's been thrown away.

2:20
It look likes it [the greylevel data] is limited by some specific
directed order to limit it.


2:21
In other words, something deliberately had to be done to make
this image so bad.

2:39
All you have to do is go to NASA's websites and look at all these
images that Malin has given us over the last several weeks, of
stunning pictures -- I mean I blew Tammie away with photographs
of sand dunes that were so sharp with the same camera that you
could count the grains.

Alright, let me go through a little more of the processing.
You'll understand how insidious this is, and how carefully
planned it had to have been, to get certain network anchors to
basically dismiss this whole thing.

Because when you take an image where you've thrown two-thirds of
the data away, and then you apply any enhancement techniques,
you're basically already what we call "down in the noise."
You're groveling around at the bottom of the well.  So when you
enhance it, meaning when you brighten it up, when you increase
the contrast, you're brightening up and increasing the contrast
of the noise.

The noise in the enhanced image I was looking at, and commenting
to AP about, was from the very fact that there's almost no data
to begin with.

2:45
What we now have...is not only a direct link to this NASA site
showing a different enhancement of supposedly this morning's
image, but we also have a pretty good case that they have either
have revised their politics inside and decided to give us more
real data, because the image is so much better, or it, in fact,
is a second picture, unannounced that they've just put up there
quietly on the websites all over the world.

Now how do I know it's a second picture?  Because if you go to
our web, you'll see another thumbnail...which is a comparison
between this new image and a simulated 3-D comparison that
Carlotto had done several years ago....  What Mark did, from the
original Viking...2-D data..., was to prepare, very lovingly, 3-D
simulations using this technique called shape-from-shading.  He
was then able to attack the initial claim by NASA that it was all
a trick of light and shadow by recreating a 3-D version in the
computer, and then simulating the lighting during a full Martian
day and a full Martian year.

2:49
Because it looks like this either is the first image -- because
they flew right over the...damn thing -- so then the question I
had all afternoon was, well, if you fly right over it, why did
Dr. Malin wait until it was back north and they'd have to turn
around and look at an angle to take it going away?  Because that
increases the distortion, makes it more difficult to recognize,
and you lose most of the features on the right-hand side.  This
image shows a startling set of features on the right hand-side,
and the left-hand side...but the most important thing is...the
two-shot comparison I put up there, which is Carlotto's 3-D
morning light view, given the shape-from-shading 3-D morphology
he reconstructed from the Viking data, with the shot we got this
morning [he meant evening].  And all of the predictions that that
model makes as to what it would look like in morning light are
overwhelmingly confirmed by this new, very good quality -- not
best quality yet -- but getting-there quality image, which popped
up on JPL sites this evening.

2:51
It shows, by the way, that the face on Mars is very feline
looking.

3:08
Well, look, I mean let's stop beating around the bush.  It's
obvious that image that came from Mars this morning is a piece of
hockey puck.  Okay?  The only question is, why?  And the answer,
of course, I think, is to be found in what's on it.  Because when
you start looking at the image that I'm about to send Keith [a
mysterious, second enhancement that quietly appeared on JPL
mirror sites in the evening]...the next thing you'll be able to
see is the face, in morning light, at Cydonia, which confirms
everything that we have claimed for the last fifteen years.  This
is an astonishing comparison.

4:41
Caller: He [Richard] has already said several times tonight that
he now has the real picture, and it shows the face, and he
accepts it, and he's ready to go on=85.

Richard: Well, I didn't say I accepted it.  What I said was I
know it's of the right geometry, it's the right orientation, it's
the morning light,   That's the first stage.  The next stage, of
course, is to get all the documentation as to how we got that
image, which we're missing tonight.  What I am saying is let's
assume, for a moment, that NASA has fulfilled its commitment to
get a new picture of the face on Mars, given their own words.
What they now have said is, if we got it on the first pass, we'll
target the other objects on the next two orbits, and, frankly, I
want to focus on the future, and not the past.  I really think
that we should be writing to Dan Goldin, with copies to Koppel
and other correspondents, and congressmen and senators, demanding
they photograph at least two passes over the city, on the next
two orbits, which is where the real test of intelligence on Mars
lies.

Caller: I thought I heard you say earlier that it had justified
your last fifteen, twenty years worth of work, you know, the
second photograph you had, you know, had proved it...

Richard: Well, I think you're slightly taking my words out of
context.  I am saying that we have a moving target tonight.  We
are seeing movement in the Agency.  They gave us a crappy image
this morning, we got a much better image tonight.  That's
movement.

[Art interrupts with a fax.]

4:45
There is a picture tonight which is, yes, geographically and
geometrically of the face on mars.  Now, it's not anywhere near
the kind of picture we should have gotten.  It is light years
below the level this camera and this technology is capable of
giving us, so they're giving us the business, but it is a picture
geometrically targeted correctly.  So the first part of what I
would want has happened.

Now we know they can target.  Now there's no reason they can't
target the important stuff, which is the geometry in the city,
the pyramids, the material that is numerically testable, and
that's what we should be demanding, and oh, by the way, Mike,
take the lens cap off the camera.







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                          Father Balducci Interview

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:54:50 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:38:08 -0400
Subject: Father Balducci Interview

Go to

http://members.aol.com/nonstopny/easter/vatican.htm#TEXT

*******


THE TEXT OF THE CONVERSATION


Here are the latest affirmations of FATHER BALDUCCI on the
subject of extraterrestrials as seen in the conversation with
journalist Bruno Mobrici; filmed by RAI-TV 1 "SPECIAL TG1," it is
available in a zip file.

Bruno Mobrici: Father Balducci father, then, between us, would
this answer how many support this versus how many are still
opposed?

Padre BALDUCCI: Non si pu=F2 pi=F9 pensare... =E8 vero, non =E8 vero,
sono veri o sono falsit=E0, ci si crede o non ci si crede, no!
Oramai ci sono varie considerazioni che FANNO DIRE CON CERTEZZA
CHE LA ESISTENZA DI QUESTI ESSERI C'=C8. NON SI PU=D2 DUBITARE.
Magari si potr=E0 dire che su cento fenomeni ce ne saranno... anche
se si dicesse 99 non veri e 1 vero, c'=E8 quell'1 che dice che
certi fenomeni esistono. Quindi, questo =E8 il primo problema, non
=E8 pi=F9... non rientra pi=F9 nell'ambito della prudenza umana...
dubitare... perch=E9... la prudenza dice di essere prudenti, ma non
di negare.

Father Balducci: These things give us a great deal to think
about. Is it true, it is false, is it ... it is true, it is not
true, is this believable or should we say this is incredible --
no! By now, at this point, there are several considerations made
with CERTAINTY THAT these BEINGS DO EXIST. IT CANNOT BE DOUBTED.
It can also be said that even if there are 99 things about this
phenomenon that are false, within the entire totality there can
be one true statement -- and it is that, certainly, it's true
that this phenomena does exist for sure.
Therefore, this is the first problem: there will be those who
doubt, perhaps, but the most prudent people will not deny it
entirely.

Bruno Mobrici: What are the consequences regarding religious
beliefs or philosophy?

Padre BALDUCCI: Non ci sono nessune con... non c'=E8 alcuna
conseguenza negativa... tutto =E8 contemplato, mica il Signore ci
ha rivelato tutto, e quindi si pu=F2 pensare benissimo, anche la
stessa redenzione umana, Cristo rimane sempre il centro
dell'Universo, ma nell'Universo ci sono... c'=E8 tutto... quello...
non solo il mondo, ma ci sono le migliaia di stelle, le migliaia
di galassie, e ci sono... non voglio adesso dire numeri, ma
indubbiamente si pu=F2 pensare e ragionevolmente a questo punto...
ed entriamo qui nella seconda questione, come si spiegano,
...alla esistenza di altri mondi abitati, in che maniera abitati,
da chi abitati? Vede noi... c'=E8 un detto che risale ancora a
secoli, secoli fa: "Natura non facit saltus" eh... "la Natura non
fa salti" cio=E8... no... c'=E8 il regno vegetale, il regno animale,
il regno umano... e il regno angelico, le uniche cose, quattro
regni che conosciamo. Tre sono naturali e li vediamo. Tra l'uomo,
l'essere umano e l'angelo, eh... c'=E8 un salto un po' grosso da
fare. Ecco perch=E9 gi=E0 con questo argomento della convenienza, che
=E8 illustrato molto bene da San Tommaso, uno dei pi=F9 grandi
teologi, =E8 probabile, =E8 verosimile, ecco... pi=F9 che altro... che
tra l'uomo, che ha gi=E0 uno spirito, in s=E9, ma povero spirito... =E8
soggetto alla materia in una maniera incredibile, basta alla
sera, uno sente il bisogno di andare a letto, mentre l'anima non
ha bisogno di dormire. Basta una piccola malattia...
ba... insomma, =E8 talmente imprigionato, e l'angelo che =E8 solo
spirito, =E8 verosimile che ci siano altri esseri, i quali abbiano
un'anima, diciamo cos=EC, che =E8 meno legata, meno subordinata al
corpo e un'anima di questo genere =E8 ovvio che pu=F2 compiere
progressi che noi, per quanto ne facciamo tanti in questi ultimi
decenni, non siamo in grado di compiere.

Father Balducci: Not there are no one with ... not that it is
without some negative consequence... all things considered. After
all the Lord has revealed to us all, things we already think well
of, and also of this "alien" and not exactly human rendition of
God's creation we can also think well. Christ always remains the
center of the Universe, but in the Universe there is not only
this one world, but there are millions of stars, millions of
galaxies, and there are... I don't want to say now anything about
how many (or any exact numbers) but, without a doubt, we can
reasonably anticipate the next point. And now here we'll enter
into our second phase of questions, as these aliens explain
themselves, discuss the existence of other inhabited worlds, in
the manner that they have lived. How did they live? You see,
there's a saying that goes back centuries: "Natura non facit
saltus" -- "Nature does not make jumps" ...... There is the
animal realm, the vegetable realm, the human realm, and the
angelic realm; these are the four realms we already know about.
Three are natural and we see them.
Between the man, the human being and the angel, eh... there's a
jump and it's a jump that's a little too large to make.

Here, for convenience, I use this illustration -- this example
from Saint Thomas's theology [Summa Theologica] is very good
because it illustrates that such verisimilitude is probable.
Let's take the case of mankind. Man already has a spirit, in
himself, but it may be a poor spirit. This spirit is subject to
all matters in an incredible way. Now the man -- he's had enough
by evening, and this man has to go to bed, while the spirit does
not have this need to sleep. Man can suffer just a little, for
instance, say, one minor illness, or insomnia, and thus he is
imprisoned. But then consider an angel. An angel is ALL spirit --
the similarity between mankind and angels is that part which is
the SOUL, the spirit. We say, therefore, that the less mankind is
tied to his physical self, the less he's ruled by his body. How
much we are able to subordinate our higher self to the body and
how much to the realm of the soul -- how much progress we make
towards this spiritual world -- until it is obvious how much
progress we have made towards the study of our own spiritual side
in these last decades, we won't be able to progress further.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Il filmato con le domande del giornalista Bruno Mobrici e le
risposte di Padre BALDUCCI 2,674Mb .zip (2,853Mb .mpg)
http://www.worldlink.it/nonsoloufo/baldui01.htm
Attenzione!!!Abbiamo verificato che le migliaia di visitatori che
prelevano i file .zip, incontrano delle difficolt=E0. Vi invitiamo
quindi ad utilizzare le ore che, sempre dalle nostre statistiche,
risultano meno impegnate: dalle 2,00 (di notte) alle 11,00 (del
mattino) con GMT+01,00.
See the RAI-TV production first released: Sunday October 8, 1995
Domenica 8 Ottobre 1995 RAI 1 Trasmissione "SPECIALE TG1"

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

A film made for RAI-TV with the questions of journalist Bruno Mobrici
and the answers of Father BALDUCCI  2,674Mb zip (2,853Mb mpg) --
Go to:

http://www.worldlink.it/nonsoloufo/baldui01.htm

Since we get so many visitors, please download during the nighttime
hours when Internet traffic is lighter. See the RAI-TV production first
released: Sunday October 8, 1995:
RAI -TV 1 Transmission " Special Tg1 "

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 10

                            Re: Mars Face Report

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:36:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:16:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Face Report


>Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 08:19:24 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mars Face Report


>>NEARSIGHT INSTITUTE

>>OFFICIAL REPORT ON THE NASA/JPL MARS FACE PHOTOS


>>REPORT FROM INSTITUTE FOR ADVANCED MYOPIA>

>>It's still a face..... lots of faces.... smaller than the
>>origina......I look.... I see a chin///another chin....... I see
>>a nose...another nose.. I see eyeballs.

>>    .....I see (said the blind man
>>as he picked up his hammer and saw.....)

>>REPORT FROM TUNNEL VISION RESEARCH ASOCIATES>

>>We agree with the results published by the INSTITUTE FOR ADVANCED
>>MYOPIA....

>>However, whereas the original face of 20 year ago was
>>scowling....this one appears to be smiling....on one side of its
>>face.......


>Err, Bruce,

>Checked your Lithium dosage recently?


Yes... I checked... Definitely not enough. And I need more than
that.

Incidently, somehow I get the impression that you could use a
little yourself..... lithium, at least....







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   Apr > Apr 10

              Vast Water Vapor 'Factory' Found in Orion's Sword

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:14:05 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:14:05 -0400
Subject: Vast Water Vapor 'Factory' Found in Orion's Sword





To: updates@globalserve.net
Subject: News - Morning Coffee Edition @  04/10/98
From: InfoBeat <news@infobeat.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:18:07 MDT



*** Vast water vapor 'factory' found in Orion's sword

What looks like a pink star in the sword of the constellation
Orion is actually a vast gas cloud churning out enough water
vapor to fill Earth's oceans 60 times each day, astronomers
reported Thursday. This distant water vapor "factory" may offer
clues about where all the water in our own solar system came
from, physicist David Neufeld said. This is significant, since
water is seen as a necessity for life on Earth or anywhere else.
The "factory" is located about 1,500 light-years from Earth -
about 8,900 trillion miles away - hanging from the belt of Orion.
In Orion's starry sword, one apparently pink star is in fact
composed of many bright stars embedded in a gaseous cloud, said
astrophysicist Martin Harwit. See:

http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=2553677099-cb9






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   Apr > Apr 10

               Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:36:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:18:19 -0400
Subject: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs


>Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 02:32:04 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John <jvif@spacelab.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs


>Jim writes,

><snip>

>>Would it require the intersection of two laser beams to do the
>>trick? If so, how would that work?

>I'm sure that you'll hear from experts but from what little I
>know of laser imaging (two) beams are needed. One is a reference
>beam while the other carries the graphic data.

>Where the two beams intersect is where the image is formed.
>(I think! <G>) I'm sure we'll get the straight dope soon enough.>

Actually what you have described the situation/arrangement for
creation of th hologram (which is a piece of film with the
diffraction pattern recorded on it).   To recreate the image you
need only a single beam.   BUT... you have to look toward the
light coming from the film.... you can't project the image out
into space away from the film and then look away from the flm and
see it.   You have to look tward th film...i.e., toward the
hologram.

<snip>

>The other alternative hypothesis to a genuine UFO, of course, is
>that of a carefully crafted computer simulation with planted
>witnesses acting out their stories.

According to the two special effects guys that they contracted to
analyze the tape there was no "computer fakery" detectable by
them. One of them did say that he thought that the UFO was
suspended on a cable from a helicopter, but both agreed that
-whatever it was- was actually there on the scene as it was
videotaped. Ergo, not an "add on" or a "special effect."

Smoking gun? I think it's the best we've seen yet, but then I'm
no video expert. Spooky thing to watch though. It was a big one!


Hope you read my article in the MUFON Journal






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   Apr > Apr 10

                              Filer's Files #14

From: Majorstar <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:31:49 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:20:38 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #14

Filer's Files #14  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer:  MUFON Eastern Director,
April  9, 1998  Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020

Numerous sightings continue.  Images from Mars shows new details.


NEW HAMPSHIRE:

On March 17 and 25th,  a "large green tadpole shaped" UFO was
spotted one mile beyond Hampton over the Atlantic Ocean. Multiple
witnesses on both days saw the polliwog like UFO hover for five
minutes before it streaked seaward.
During the second sighting, high tides were pushing sand and
stones onto roads during a full moon. Thanks to John Thompson.

NEW YORK:

Alex Cavallari the New York State Director of Skywatch
International photographed UFOs over the Sheepshead Bay area of
Brooklyn on March 29, 1998, between noon and 4:00 PM EST.
Sunday, Alex received a call from a friend who was filming UFOs
and informed him "The boys were back!"  Alex went outside with
his camera. He said, "The objects appeared to perform a sky show.
Some exhibited very unusual start and stop characteristics and
then sped away at incredible speeds towards the northeast.
Later, I noticed a Cigar shaped object that I  was able to
photograph along with the normal air traffic. The Cigar shaped
object flew northeast to the southwest at extraordinary speed. It
looked like an upside down Frisbee. It had a blue, purple haze on
the top of its form.  The craft emitted a very bright chalk white
light.  I took 78 pictures of spherical objects with Kodak ASA
400 speed film." Thanks to Alex Cavallari, whose photos can be
seen at:
http://members.aol.com/xelaufo/index.html.

NEW JERSEY

Karin Gaun writes, "I wanted to let you know that along with my
husband, father, mother brother, and two others, we all saw a
strange light on March 29, 1998."  It was 7:30 PM, and we had
just arrived home from a day on Long Beach Island.  We were
looking up at the clear sky and thought we were watching a
satellite, when all of a sudden it became a very bright moving
light. So bright you want to shield your eyes, and then it
suddenly flew to the southeast. There was no visible structure."
Thanks to Karin Gaun.
(Southampton,N.J.)

PENNSYLVANIA

On April 4, 1998, Demostenese Cruger saw a UFO 12:45 PM near the
Indiana Senior High School in Indiana, PA.  He described the
object has having red, blue, and green alternating lights in a
circular pattern. The craft quickly disappeared into space. Their
Phone Number: (412)742-4423, Indiana, PA. Thanks to John Thompson
and ISUR.

VIRGINA

On April 3, 1998, James Rickert, 26, a salesman reports observing
a UFO only ten miles outside Washington DC in Fairfax, VA.  James
writes, "I was eating outside on the porch at a restaurant with
twelve co-workers.  Three of us at our table and many others
eating at the restaurant saw a green orb in the sky.
It moved along quickly and steadily for about ten seconds going
across the sky, then disappeared.  Forty people outside also saw
it.  A few dismissed it as a shooting star, those of who saw it
for longer know that it was not. It glowed green and was cigar
shaped.  We are ten miles from Washington D.C. so I am sure
others saw it."  Thanks to  James Rickert, Bruce Cornet. BUFOR
Website.

GEORGIA

Chief Walter Sheets, MUFON�s State Director reports, on March 30,
1998, at 10:30 PM,  two women saw a UFO shaped like a "cue ball
rack," hovering near the ground.  The "balls" inside the "rack"
were large, bright, non-blinking and white.  The ladies saw  the
triangle-shaped UFO with10 to 25 bright white lights for "3 to 4
minutes." Walter states, "I drove to Turner Road, where the
witnesses  first saw the UFO and stopped their car behind the
Tall Pine Apartments to get a better view." The UFO was less than
a mile away and had an apparent size ranging from 1 to 2 inches
long.  On reaching the back of the apartments, the UFO flew away
at a high rate of speed, but slower than a jet." Since the UFO
flew north, Walter thought they might have seen  the Wall Street
Journal plane as it took off from LaGrange's airport. This plane
has some bright lights and generally lands around 9 PM. On
calling Journal distributor in LaGrange, he said it was
definitely not their plane as it always leaves by 10 PM. A
manager at the LaGrange Calloway Airport said, "The plane has
standard FAA lights and he knew of nothing that flies out of the
airport that has numerous white non-blinking lights."  The West
Georgia Medical Center indicated no helicopters had flown on the
night of March 30. Both witnesses remain adamant that the object
was not an airplane or any other conventional aircraft. A check
with local police and sheriff was negative.

MUFON Investigator John Thompson reports the following sighting
is definitely a UFO!  Teenagers were playing baseball  north of
LaGrange on March 31, at 7:10 PM. The batter, nearly 17 years
old, was facing to the northeast and saw a huge white disc-shaped
UFO fly by  very fast. The UFO climbed at a steep 70 degree angle
and disappeared behind a large cloud at blinding speed.  The egg
or plate shaped UFO was about a mile away and had an apparent
size of three inches. It shot across the sky to the north in a
second or less. The other boys did not see the UFO. I believe
this is  the same UFO that others in the LaGrange area saw in
July and what a LaGrange High School student saw in September.
This UFO can travel at several thousand miles per hour. The
baseball player indicated the giant UFO�s size  was over  600
feet or two football fields.  John states, "I now believe that a
giant UFO is regularly penetrating airspace over the Troup-Heard
Corridor in Western Georgia.  Before darting away it creates a
large flash, as it kicks into high speed. When loitering it flies
well below the 2500 feet radar ceiling so that the FAA in Atlanta
 and  Columbus can't "track" it. The UFO has an elliptical shape,
so when looking at it "on edge" it appears as a slender
disc-shape, At other times it appears the shape of an egg or
plate. At night, it is luminous and appears "energized." In
daytime it  appears white. There is also the distinct possibility
that the actual UFO is smaller and only has a large "halo" around
it when "energized."  Most likely it is not picked up on radar
due to the computer elimination of high speed targets. The UFO
picks areas to operate where radar coverage and the population
are sparse. It loiters only at night and uses terrain such as
ridges, valleys and hills for concealment purposes to mask its
profile from ground view. Observers above the UFO claim it
appears completely dark, when looking down upon it.  Thanks to
John Thompson.

KANSAS

Ted Phillips an expert in UFO trace cases writes. "I worked very
closely with Allen Hynek from 1967, until his death.  At his
suggestion, I began specializing in Physical Traces associated
with UFO landings in 1969.  I was the original investigator of
the Delphos, Kansas event and hundreds of other cases.  I have
started to re-investigate this case to try and extract additional
data on the observation and traces.  I'm looking for any piece of
info anyone might have such as news clippings, photos, articles,
etc., relating to the event.  If you could suggest any contact, I
would greatly appreciate it.  I remember a MUFON person (I think
Larry Moyers) who went there and later gave me photos and a
interview with witnesses. Do you know if he is still living?
Please contact Ted Phillips theo2042@gte.net if you have
information. I sent his request to MUFON Headquarters but perhaps
our readers can help.

KENTUCKY, INDIANA

Clint Stone Kentucky MUFON reports that the flap in
Henderson/Evansville/Owensboro area proves to be long from over.
I have been observing the sky up here in Henderson for the most
of the evening on April 6.
Once again between 8 to 8:30 PM, I observed an UFO that had a
combo of a white light, and a flashing red one. It was coming
from the south with a light in the middle and two more white ones
on the right side.   It was heading northwest when it suddenly
changed course to due east.  It was almost as if it made a right
angle turn to fly over my head.  The lights on the craft were
very unusual as they had erratic random motions that included
chasing each other like Christmas lights. The combo of lights was
followed by a very faint bluish white light that was only flashed
every 10 seconds.  The white/red light soon sped out in front of
the bluish white light as it faded off in the distance.  Soon
after, a total of three lights was seen heading in the same
direction. All had no sound. Thanks to:  Clint Stone - Webmaster,
ASD KY/MUFON at http://www.angelfire.com/ky/ufohome

ILLINOIS

Michael Petrick, 18, saw three lights in the distance on April 5,
1998, near Channahon some 40 miles southwest of Chicago.  Michael
says, "I spotted the lights that circled and moved while I was
driving down a rural road at 11:35 PM. The lights in the shape of
an equilateral triangle had lights at the corners.  They were
expanding outward as to give the impression, that whatever they
were connected to was getting closer.  The lights stopped moving
and sat still in the sky.  I noticed no other lights in the sky.
I slowed to get a closer look before the next set of trees.  I
then saw the lights 'spin' clockwise and the one light that I had
viewed began to move as if the front of an object.  The UFO was
sighted for 2 to 3 minutes before it rotated, hovered, changed
color and moved away. Thanks to BUFORA and Bruce Cornet.

SARAH MC CLENDON, THE GRAND OLD WHITEHOUSE CORRESPONDENT

March 30, 1998. News release from the McClendon News Service by
Sarah McClendon Washington, D.C. -- Unidentified Flying Objects,
a term given for many years to unexplained sightings of craft in
the skies over every state in the Union, are actual visitors from
other worlds, believe a community of scientists and technicians
employed by government.   The real danger to the U.
S. and perhaps this whole planet is the government has placed
such a heavy blanket of secrecy upon this issue. So much secrecy,
those in government who have knowledge showing UFOs are
identifiable feel the subject cannot be discussed by those in the
know without serious repercussions. Others are afraid their
friends and co-workers will think they are crazy if they even so
much as insinuate that UFOs are identifiable as manned craft from
outside the earth. This particularly applies to newspaper editors
and publishers, reporters and analysts. Thus the U. S. is denying
itself the chance to learn more about UFOs or to encourage
research despite the fact the U.S. stands to gain from such
discussions.   Not publicized but true is that the Clinton
administration, soon after coming to office, had many briefings
on the subject. Laurence Rockefeller provided the information for
the President and Mrs. Clinton. Others provided documents and
verbal briefings to presidential advisors Jack Gibbons (science),
Bruce Lindsay (personal), Anthony Lake (national security) and
Vice President Albert Gore. About the same time a three hour
briefing was given by Dr. Steven Greer to the sitting Director of
the CIA, Admiral Woolsey.   Subsequently, Clinton instructed
Webster Hubbell, when naming him to the position of Associate
Attorney General at the Justice Department, that he wanted him to
investigate and report back to him on two things, circumstances
surrounding the death of President John F. Kennedy, and the
existence of UFOs. Hubbell, despite his position and the
presidential imprimatur, was boxed in at Justice Department and
never was able to find out.
All of this was disclosed in Hubbell's memoir Friends in High
Places.   Now the lid on UFOs is gradually coming off. There is a
national drive underway to get one million signatures on a
petition calling for an open Congressional hearing for government
employee witnesses. Another who feels that positive proof exists
within government, is Lt. Col. Philip J. Corso (retired), who
reveals in a recent book, The Day After Roswell, that he was in
charge of the Roswell files during his tenure as head of the
Army's Foreign Technology Division. He states unequivocally that
these files confirm the crash which occurred at Roswell, New
Mexico was an alien space craft. This completely refutes the Air
Force denials and subsequent explanations. Corso says that the
crashed vehicle was studied and proved to be manufactured of
materials unknown as to source and usage in this country. In
time, he says, this and other UFOs provided technologies which
were "worked into the commercial world via front companies."
Incidentally he vouches for the fact that this has proven to be a
valuable contribution to U.S. aircraft design and other
commercial products.
Corso and hundreds of others who work or have worked in secret
defense and scientific agencies, are willing to swear under oath
that alien craft are repeatedly penetrating our airspace.
Whenever the military agencies are asked to look into this matter
further, the answer is always the same - "We do not investigate
UFOs."   Contact:   McClendon News Service at:
http://bbs.daytaco.com/cgi-bin/WebX?14@@.ee6c827/20

IRAN

The UFO World Website reports that the DSP-1 Satellite has
confirmed that a UFO chased an Iranian F-4 jet on September 18,
1976. The DSP Connection is an impressive breakthrough in the
confirmation of the Iranian UFO  encounter.
This evidence was uncovered by researchers Lee Graham and Ron
Regehr, of Aero-Jet in California. They confirmed that the UFO
sighting over Tehran  was, in fact, tracked by the United States
military's DSP satellite. The primary responsibility of the
DSP-1 satellite is to detect the launch of ballistic missiles.
This deep-space platform detects infrared heat through sensors,
that are  mounted on the body of the satellite. Anything that
emits infrared heat is detected by this apparatus. It can
determine different types of  aircraft simply by comparing the
"signature" of the infrared signals  displayed by an object
against an intensely complete database of all  known aircraft.
The DSP was, as we now know, responsible for the detection of
Iraqi SCUD missile launches during Operation Desert Storm.
During their investigations, Graham and Reghr have located
computer  print-outs from the time frame of the Iranian UFO
overflight, which show that the DSP definitely detected an
"anomalous object" in Iranian  air space.  Thanks to Lee Graham
and the Website at, http://ufo-world.simplenet.com/dsp2.

MAJIC

Many books have been written about the so called MJ-12 or MAJIC
Project that allegedly concerned the study of UFOs. Necah S.
Furman has written a book called, Sandia National Laboratories,
The Post War Decade, the University of New Mexico Press, 1990.
Furman claims that MAJIC in fact stands for Manhattan
(Engineering District), Armed Forces Special Weapons Project,
JCS, Integrated, Command. A special weapons project normally has
to do with nuclear weapons and implies a highly classified
program. Furthermore it was known as Project Y, Division Z,
Division-Group: Z(Ordnance)-12. The Group Leader was Estel L.
Cheeseman and the organization was formed in September 1947 or
earlier.  It is not known what this group accomplished or its
exact function. Z groups are normally involved in building or
standardizing nuclear weapons components.
This Project Y was apparently at the highest levels because it
required Presidential invitation by AT&T Bell Telephone. Z
Division's Group 12 was established in September 1947.  Its
function and purpose apparently still remains classified. . Can
anyone verify this explanation for the famous MAJIC or MJ-12?
Thanks to Dan Smith. Editors note: We do know that the code name
Project Y or Silverbug was also used as the designated name for a
disc aircraft developed for the Air Force.  It was declassified
last year at Jack Pickett's and my request.

UNIVERSE IS FULL OF WATER

LONDON (AP) - Orbiting high above Earth, Europe's infrared space
observatory has discovered water around stars and planets and in
many other surprising places, raising expectations of life
elsewhere in the universe, the European Space Agency said
Tuesday.  The discovery of water vapor in the atmosphere of
Saturn's largest moon, Titan, has generated the most excitement,
because that moon may duplicate the conditions that led to the
creation of life on Earth, said Roger Bonnet, the agency's
director of science.

MARS FACE WAS ONLY A MASQUERADE

The purported "Face on Mars" that has created such controversy
over last twenty years has done an about face. Joel Carpenter
writes: "The Mars Global Surveyor "Face" images indicate as you
can see, "It's just a hill!" Others claim it looks like a sandal
print or a stuffed chili pepper.  Geologist, Dr.
Bruce Cornet writes: "A second image of the "Face" is now up at
JPL and NASA, and it looks even more like a face than the first
image, which was distorted due to perspective.  The nose is more
obvious, even with what appear to be a pair of nostrils!  And yet
deep erosion is evident.  As I stated below, I think the
proponents of this object being a sculptured face will retreat,
analyze, regroup, and come forward with explanations that fit
their theory, while the detractors will point out those areas
which are more likely natural landforms in origin, and emphasize
how greater resolution did not make it look more like a face, but
less like a face.  I am disappointed that the image looks less
like a sculptured artifact and more like a natural eroded mound,
but on the other hand, all the features that are apparent in the
Viking images appear to be counted for in the new image.  The
angle and possible distortion due to angle elongate the face-like
features, and the face-like proportions evident in Carlotto's
images seem to be gone.  And yet the left eye does indeed appear
to contain an eyeball-like form, and the pupil-like feature is
even more apparent. Overall the new images of the Martian "face"
resemble and seem to confirm previous suggestions that this
object represents the depiction of a sphinx, or the blending of
human-like and lion-like features - still evident even in its
apparent eroded and damaged state. But because the features are
not stylized as on most versions or depictions of Egyptian
sphinxes, I suggest that it represents a more primitive form or
concept of the sphinx - one which simply gives a human
countenance lion-like features without exaggeration. Even the
nose, which now appears to have a pair of nostrils, looks more
like that of a lion nose than a human one. The border around the
"Face" now appears to be a naturally eroded bedform, possibly
created from layering within the mountain.

NASA's Michael Ravine, the advanced project manager at Malin
Space Science Systems which operates Surveyor's camera says,
"The legendary formation appears to be nothing more than an
eroded hills, debris, aprons and plenty of imagination.` It's a
butte, a mesa, a knob. The scientists were right all along in
insisting the face was a natural formation, but I would have been
overjoyed to discover otherwise.  `If we found flying saucers
carved at the base of this thing.  I would be even happier
because that would be cool!" Taking his direction, I looked at
the close up images of the base of the Face and spotted a
circular structure. I then contacted author BJ Wolf who wrote
Eagles Disobey: The Case for Inca City, Mars. He said, "They're
own analysis has revealed a doorway of some kind at the base of
the Face. I liken it to the passage ways often built into ancient
terrestrial monuments like the Sphinx at Giza, and the large
Pyramids. I�m sure we�ll find more suspicious objects"

Editors Note: We're getting mixed signals from NASA. Are they
telling us where to look? NASA claims to be taking a neutral
stand on its images, but they also appear to be playing games
with the Grey pixels. Experts from CNN and other outlets have
noted that NASA provided very poor images for the first big
announcements. The raw image published by NASA contains only
about 75 shades of gray, instead of the requisite 256 shades in
normal photos from the Malin camera imaging system. This means
that two thirds of the data, expressed as shades of gray, are
simply missing. Later versions, appeared more Face-like. I
personally could not understand why a Martian civilization would
build a two mile long Face, that could only be observed from
above.  But, the rest of the Cydonia area is more interesting
than the Face, and "the Inca City" a name employed by NASA is
even more fascinating. An ancient Face on Mars whether its
natural or artificial does little to prove UFOs are in our skies.
The important factor is can we prove there is intelligent life
out there in the universe. The incoming images will help answer
the question about ancient life on Mars. We are just getting
started and there is going to be much more to this story. This is
not the end of the search for intelligent life on Mars, it's just
a beginning.
Please send your letters and sightings to George Filer at
Majorstar @aol.com







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   Apr > Apr 10

                      Re: The New Mars Facial Structure

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:36:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:43:24 -0400
Subject: Re: The New Mars Facial Structure


>Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 01:35:10 -0400
>From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com> [Gary Alevy]
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The New Mars Facial Structure

<snip>

>I would like to make a point as to why I recommended
>deconvolution of the high resolution image and not filtering as
>Bruce Macabee responded to in my post.  These are not equivalent
t>erms in image processing.

>Filtering is a mathematical operation using any number of
>arbitrary functions, each having different properties and effects
>on an image or in this case pixel of an image.  Image processing
>based on application of filtering is challengeable based on the
>selection of filtering operations and their ordering applied to
>the image in question.

>Different aspects of an image can be enhanced or suppressed by
>the adroit selection of filters and their order.>>

>Deconvolution is a process which uses the known properties of the
>imaging chain(s) [mathematical functions] that uses an image
>transform actually derived from measurement of the physical
>imaging systems in question.  One takes the image data in
>question, processes it deconvolves it, through the image
t>ransform which represents the physical imaging chain under
>investigation inorder to create a new image which reflects the
>changes created by the actual imaging chain itself and not an
>arbitrary selection of filters and operations.>

>The cameras that NASA uses are very carefully analyzed as to
>their imaging properties.  If the corrected, high resolution
>image data of the Malin camera images were deconvolved -
>processed with the image transform of the Viking camera and
>correction was made for the differences in lighting angles and
>luminosity then one would have the best available image for
>comparing the Viking and Malin images of the Cydonia "face".
><

Perhaps you misunderstood what I am proposing... or I
misunderstand what you are saying.

Any picture can be considered the result of the convolution
(integration of factors multiplied together ) of "filter
function" that represent various stages of the picture
acquisition. For example the size of the camera aperture, any
aberrations in the lens and the shape/size of the focal plane CCD
array and electronics following the CCD array are all represented
as "functions" (of amplitude - saturation,gama- and of spatial
frequency and of color, etc.) that must be convolved to get the
electronic signal out of the CCD array.

Then there are functions representing the transmission of the
signal from the satellite, reception at the antenna, processing
by the electronics and final presentation.

All of these are "convolved" together and noise is added at each
step. The net result is an image which is degraded as compared to
the original scene as it would be if "perfectly viewed."

Generally the process of deconvolution is to take the degraded
scene and, insome way, "deconvolve" the degradations step by step
to try to return get as close as possible to the "perfect image."
 Hence it would make sense to use the known characteristics of
teh MGS cameras, etc,. to take the newest images and try to
"deconvolve" the degradations to get the best possible image.

The point I was trying to make was a bit different.

I was saying that the newest images are so much better than the
old ones that we could start from the present images as if they
were "perfect" and then apply the appropriate degradations (which
I called "filters") to create an image similar to the Old Face
(taking into account the direction of the solar illumination and
the viewing direction from the satellite.   Thus one should be
able to take the new image and modify it to create the old image
and thereby establish a scientific link with the past.

For one thing, this would prove that there had been no noticeable
change in  the face over the last 20 years.   But more
importantly it would show where/why the previous analysis/mage
processing had "gone wrong" or had failed to produce the correct
version of the face.  (For you conspiracy buffs: this would also
act as an internal check on
the data...i,.e., establish that there has been no "fudging" of
the newest data!)

One of the simplest degradations is the change in spatial (or
pixel) resolution from 50 m or whatever it was 20 years ago to
the present 4 meters.  This can be represented mathematically as
a integrating "window filter" or a "low (spatial) frequency pass
filter"  and hence my use of the term "filter" in th previous
message. It could be as simple as a "square" window filter (which
adds or integrates uniformly all sources of light within a
resolution area)... or it could be a mre complicated "weighted"
filter, e.g., weighted bya Gaussian function that itself
represents the product of diffraction and lens aberrations.

Anyway, I again suggest that this is what Carlatto should do to
establish complete consistency between what we now have as a face
image and what has been analyzed until everyone has become
exhausted: Carlatto should use the new data, "deconvolved" as
much as possible (degredations removed) to make a 3-D model. He
should then place the sun and the viewing locations as they were
22 years ago and use appropriate filters (convolved together) to
create the image as seen by the Viking






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                       Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:41:48 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:54:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

> From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia]
> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:37:07 EDT
> To: UASR@MyList.net, updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism


> By the way, is it me or did the MGS photo of The Face
> look pretty crappy for a hi-res image? Some of the
> other photos on Malin's site look so much clearer.
> Maybe it's me.

I downloaded a multimeg gif, and did a little enhancement. It's
actually quite clear even without enhancement.


------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront/
------







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                  Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:21:47 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:58:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic

> From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:42:40 +0200
> Subject: Fwd: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic

> Received via "alt.alien.research" April 7 at 10.18 local time
>(GMT + 1 hour).

> Two thirds of the data is missing!! Using a histogram, both
> Richard Hoagland and Keith Rowland have determined that two
> thirds of the data on the RAW image of Cydonia is missing! The
> histogram shows that on a gray scale of a possible 256 shades of
> gray, there is only 70-80 shades of gray on the image-two thirds
> is missing!! Hoagland calls the picture CRAP and useless. Any
> pictures made from the raw image are also missing two thirds of
> the data. In simple terms, this means two thirds of the detail
> are missing.

> The question now is WHY.


Because the image has low contrast. Jeez.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront/
------







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                       Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:13:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:56:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:19:38 -0500
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: John <jvif@spacelab.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

> But, . . .I also believe that the strongest arguement for
> the existance of actual artificial structures is in the
> so-called 'City.' The pyramidal type structures that exist
> there _are_ the ones that everyone should be concentrating
> on. Those pyramidal shapes (the angles on the structures)
> cannot have been created by any natural means. (ie; wind
> and water erosion.)

I strongly recommend anyone who agrees with this have a look at
the following Viking images (please note that faulting, uplift
and subsidence can all created angular features, as can shatter
from impact events):

211-5266 (45N 322W) (Debrs flows around remnants of cratered
uplands)

545A50 (19N 181W) (Knobby terrain - remnants of old cratered
surface, disrupted then lava flooded)

211-5066 (46N 351W) (Upper area. Patterned plains material)

567B3 (55S 41W) (Isolated mountain or volcano on floor of
Argyre basin)

P-16983 (1S 42W) (Chaotic subsidence terrain near Simud
Vallis)

P-19131 (3N 34W) (Chaotic terrain and outflow channels)

569A20 (Mesas and knobs embayed by plains material)

All of these images contain one or more "pyramidal" features, and
in some cases, tens or hundreds of such features, all in a
context which makes it quite clear that they are of natural
origin.

On Earth photos, misinterpretation is more difficult because the
terrain is usually imaged at a higher resolution, and the sun
angles tend to be less oblique. However, a careful look at Gemini
photo S-65-45720 (Zagros Mtns in south Iran) turns up a few
isolated pyramids, as does the area in S-65-45721 (Saidabad), and
S-65-45743 (Chihuahua, Mexico). Mountain ranges near Kerman
photographed in oblique sunlight (S-65-45647) show some truly
remarkable features, at least as artificial in appearance as
anything in Cydonia. There are even a couple of face-like
features.

Jim Deardorff asked for examples of synclines and antisynclines
and other features similar to the Face. Gemini photo S-65-45722
(NW of Kerman, SCentral Iran) is filled with such features.
Others appear in S-65-45617 (SE Iraq)

Of course, the Argyre "smiley" is well known to students of Mars,
and is the result of a massive, basin producing impact.

Several features in 60A53 (Pedestal craters at 48N 349 W) have a
proto-face appearance, including lobate debris flows and ejecta
eroded. A polygonal mesa in one part of the frame has some
resemblance to the "Hood" on the Face.

Concentric linear features which may be synclines or, more
likely, glacial moraine retreat debris, show in 11B03 (50N
287W).

Polygonal cracking is shown in 32A18 (44N 18W), including two
semi-circular features. These features are 100 times larger than
the corresponding features on earth, once again illustrating the
unusual geologic processes on Mars.

Relatively few images of terrestrial inselbergs are available,
but the one which can be found at

http://www.nkw.ac.uk/bgs/w3/photo/images/d2387.gif

(Inselberg (Island Mountains)

Suilven and Canisp. Suilven is a relict mountain of reddish brown
Torridonian sandstone with basal conglomerate resting
unconformably on an irregular basement of Lewisian gneiss. Canisp
is capped by Basal Cambrian quartzite and intruded by porphyry
sills.)

clearly shows a large central ridge and a fan-shaped debris apron
with linear striations.

It is also instructive to observe the oddly shaped volcanoes of
Io, some of which have a close resemblance to the Face and other
features in the area.

Martian geology is unusual, because many processes which operate
on Mars are only minor processes in the shaping of terrestrial
geology. Also, the lower gravity and a clear difference in the
composition of lavas can lead to effects not commonly observed.
Finally, the presence of ground ice can lead to phenomena only
observed in the tundra regions of the earth, further constraining
the number of similar examples available.

Nevertheless, a close examination of Martian and terrestrial
geoforms shows that the Cydonia landforms are far from unique,
and that artificiality is not likely.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront/
------







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   Apr > Apr 10

               Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

From: Theresa Carlson <Tcarlson1@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 05:39:07 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:08:42 -0400
Subject: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

>Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 12:00:15 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

Dear Steve, and list and mostly the 'UFO experts',

>On the other hand, they did mention that the "zoom" effect was
>very difficult to duplicate and appears to be seamless, if the
>video was indeed faked.

The problem is, that statement is untrue. This is extremely easy
even with a sweet, cheap, little animation programs.

Everything that experts are declaring make this very difficult
are second nature to people that do animations. Camera motion,
camera jiggle, even the pan stop bump, as well as the pan itself
can all be key framed in. There is no frame by frame editing to
do as some of the experts would have you believe.

And no matter what they would like you to believe, there were NO,
count 'em, none, notta, witnesses to this event. On August 6th
1997, in the most populated city in the world, in broad daylight,
not a single person called the UFO hotlines or Jaime Moussan's
show to report this.   Not a single witness came forward till
AFTER this aired and Moussan even stated, he had to go looking
for witnesses.

And a city, that we are told has been enamoured with the ufo
subject since the eclipse sightings a few years ago, didn't
report this huge object?

That's a far cry from the Pheonix incident, yet the producers of
this show tryed to put them in the same boat.

Send me a nice panoramic view of your home town. (Picture
postcards usually have nice ones.)  And I will make you your own
little UFO, darting in between the buildings. You can take the
video to a local tv station and get it aired, and I would bet you
would even get some "witnesses".  You can can take it to your ufo
video experts, and they can check it to see if the ufo follows
the camera motion, it will.  You want zoom? Yep, you can have
zoom. Those can be keyframed all together. But if you think about
selling it to UPN, we'll have to talk. <g>

I know that just because something can be faked, doesn't mean it
is fake. But saying that it  is difficult to fake or that it
would take expensive equipment to fake is very misleading. I can
do it with $99 software.

I realize that my word against all these experts is probably
worthless, considering I am just an amateur hobbyist animator.
But it angers me to no end to see expert make these kinds of
comments.  If your going to be a video expert, read a current
book or magazine on computer graphics, animation, digital video,
etc, so you know what really is out there and available to anyone
with a computer. The guys that said they can't do zoom need to
talk to me. I can teach them.

And if there are any people on this list that are familiar with
digital video making and editing you'll understand this. The
buildings and foreground clutter in this video form a perfect
travelling matte.  My guess is some one had already done some
chroma, luma, or other color or alpha channel keying on it.  Not
one of the experts mentioned that.  The ufo stays relatively in
the same place, with only slight movement in left, right, up, and
down directions.  And the buildings just pass in front of it. The
UFO never passes in front of anything.An absolutely simple
illusion to create.

(Look at the flags on the tops of the condo buildings.
Anti-gravity?)


 Regards,

    Theresa Carlson


http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tcarlson1








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               Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:20:04 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:57:35 -0400
Subject: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:36:28 -0700 (PDT)
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
> Subject: UPN's "Danger in our Skies" and holographs

>From what I gather, the main alternative UPN presented to the
> reality of that UFO event was the idea that it was a holographic
> projection, put on by some U.S. military research group that
> figured Mexico City and its smog was a good place to test it.

> Now, it seems, any important UFO sighting, witnessed and
> photographed/video-taped, is subject to that explanation,
> especially if a light beam of any sort is seen to emanate from
> the UFO.

> Do we have someone on this list knowledgeable enough on
> holographs to tell us about the feasibility of projecting such an
> image?  Is a uniform distribution of smog that allows a
> visibility of a couple miles sufficient?

The idea that this is a holographic projection at all can be
quickly dispelled by realizing that no area of any kind of
projection can be darker than its backdrop.

A daylight holographic projection would require extremely
powerful lasers to overcome scattering and attenuation effects. I
do not believe that visible light lasers with such power
currently exist.

Besides, where are these "military people", or are the advocates
of that hypothesis just making them up (as usual)?

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront/
------







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                  Re: "Danger in our Skies" and holographs

From: John <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:31:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:04:42 -0400
Subject: Re: "Danger in our Skies" and holographs

>Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 12:00:15 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

>>Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 02:32:04 -0500
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: John <jvif@spacelab.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

>>>Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:36:28 -0700 (PDT)
>>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>>>Subject: UPN's "Danger in our Skies" and holographs

>>>Hello All,

>>Jim writes,

>><snip>

>>>Would it require the intersection of two laser beams to do the
>>>trick? If so, how would that work?

>>I'm sure that you'll hear from experts but from what little I
>>know of laser imaging (two) beams are needed. One is a reference
>>beam while the other carries the graphic data.

>>Where the two beams intersect is where the image is formed.
>>(I think! <G>) I'm sure we'll get the straight dope soon enough.

>><snip>

>>>The other alternative hypothesis to a genuine UFO, of course, is
>>>that of a carefully crafted computer simulation with planted
>>>witnesses acting out their stories.

>>According to the two special effects guys that they contracted to
>>analyze the tape there was no "computer fakery" detectable by
>>them. One of them did say that he thought that the UFO was
>>suspended on a cable from a helicopter, but both agreed that
>>-whatever it was- was actually there on the scene as it was
>>videotaped. Ergo, not an "add on" or a "special effect."

>>Smoking gun? I think it's the best we've seen yet, but then I'm
>>no video expert. Spooky thing to watch though. It was a big one!

>>Peace,

>>John Velez

>If memory serves, the "specialists" that discussed the hologram
>concept were responding to questions related to an image
>connected to the Phoenix sightings, and not the Mexico City
>video.  Holograms were discussed during the Mexico video segment,
>but not by the "experts" that testified about the U.S.
>Government's involvement in that research.

Watch the tape again Steve! When they went to the Mexico City
segment they showed a picture of two 'beams' near the same
building where the 'UFO' was videoed. That was the tie in to what
those two "non-lethal weapons experts" were proposing. They said
that because of the overcast sky conditions that it would have
been possible to project a holographic image (such as the UFO)
into the area. Which sounds like total bullshit to me!

>I think that one of the two SFX experts mentioned one section of
>the video where the edge of the craft appears to break up, but
>that wasn't pursued.

What he said was, that he _expected_ that the edge of the craft
would break up when it neared the building, but that that hadn't
happened! They both agreed that _whatever it was_ was something
that was _actually there_ at the time and not an 'add on' or
'special effect.' Give it another viewing Steve. If I'm wrong
please feel free to correct me as I had only the one viewing. I
was unable to tape it.

>On the other hand, they did mention that the "zoom" effect was
>very difficult to duplicate and appears to be seamless, if the
>video was indeed faked.  This would seem to indicate that an
>object did exist in the sky where it is seen on the video.

More importantly, no-one has conclusively (or otherwise)
been able to show signs of any fakery. Some good and competent
people - as you have mentioned - have looked at this thing and
still no-one has found fakery.

I await further analysis and news.

Peace,

John Velez








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   Apr > Apr 10

                       Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

From: John <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:08:21 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:02:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

>Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:50:04 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

>>Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 09:31:34 -0700
>>From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

Hi All,

Would like to kill two birds with one stone if you'll permit.

John Velez

Andy wrote,

>>Hi John,

>>Okay, I do absolutely agree that the most important reason to
>>assume there are any artificial structures in the Cydonia-region
>>always were the pyramidlike structures. But, what I wonder is the
>>following:

>>Have you ever seen the structure you find in some semi-precious
>>stones? Just take a look at the natural shape of raw crystals or
>>amethyst and on the endings of these stones you can also find,
>>almost pyramidlike shapes.

>>So it seems that even these shapes don't HAVE to be artificial.

OK, show me a mountain sized crystal shaped structure and I'll
consider your comparison. The simple fact is (and I'm no
geologist) that there are no mountains that we know of with such
symetrical shapes. I wasn't saying or implying that these
structures are/were artificial- only that they are the _best
argument_ for artificial structures on Mars. If they turn out to
be rocks and debris then they are rocks and debris. I was
agreeing with Tampa Joe that we should all wait until -all- of
the pictures are in and they have been scrutinized/analyzed. I'm
wasn't making an argument for or against their reality. Folks
just love to read what they want to see rather than what I've
written. Been the bane of my existence! <G>

Andy continues, . . .

>>Now though, it almost looks like no ufologist has ever believed
>>or was interested in the "Face", and that doesn't seem true to
>>me! C'mon know yourselves and admit that just like me, we're
>>really all hoping the "city" is turning out what we hoped to
>>be...

No. Sorry, I'm not like _you_ at all. You can't jump off of a
'bandwagon' that you were never on to begin with! This post is
the first time that I have ever mentioned the so-called 'Mars
anomalies.' You or anyone else couldn't have known what my
thoughts/opinions or beliefs about the face on Mars were because
I have never stated them. But then here, you paint me with your
own brush and say, " C'mon know yourselves and admit that just
like me, we're really all hoping the "city" is turning out what
we hoped to be..."

I have had no such "hopes" nor have I ever intimated anything of
the kind. So, speak for yourself and please read my posts more
carefully before you ascribe certain beliefs to me. I thank you
in advance for your cooperation. <G>

>>But were are we gonna take it when the City also turnes out to be
>>nothin' at all...Let's all make sure to keep all our sences and
>>don't bring in Illuminati, New World Orders or nuclair
>>destruction of Mars,..

I agree.

>>No if there isn't any face, if there aren't any pyramids... SO
>>WHAT, we made a mistake.

You mean, _you_ made a mistake!

>>Now it's up to us to deal with the matter, and what about doing
>>that unlike scientists who make mistakes, and just ADMIT IT.
>>Science should be progressive and NOT dogmatic.

Amen!

John Velez






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   Apr > Apr 10

                  Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic

From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:50:40 GMT
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:27:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic


>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:42:40 +0200
>Subject: Fwd: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic


>Two thirds of the data is missing!! Using a histogram, both
>Richard Hoagland and Keith Rowland have determined that two
>thirds of the data on the RAW image of Cydonia is missing! The
>histogram shows that on a gray scale of a possible 256 shades of
>gray, there is only 70-80 shades of gray on the image-two thirds
>is missing!! Hoagland calls the picture CRAP and useless. Any
>pictures made from the raw image are also missing two thirds of
>the data. In simple terms, this means two thirds of the detail
>are missing.

>The question now is WHY.

No.  The real question is why do you believe that fool trying to
save "Face".

How can there be data missing when the resolution is 10x better
than Vikings images?

In fact, there's more data!  Think about it.


--
Roger R. Prokic
Telecom Design Lead
Mars Surveyor Program 2001
Lockheed Martin Astronautics
Denver, Colorado USA
- sent from a PalmPilot Professional -






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 10

                  Re: Phil Klass to discuss UFO Abductions

From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:26:58 +0200 (MET DST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:39:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Phil Klass to discuss UFO Abductions


>Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 22:58:29 -0700
>From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Phil Klass to discuss UFO Abductions


>I've had several "dicussions" with Marcel Hulspas, one of
>Holland's most irritating debunkers. On one of these occasions,
>after three times trying to get any answers out of his mouth
>instead of answering them he looked at his watch (in a filled
>lecture-hall!) and opened his mouth. I saw several people in the
>audience go :" he's going to answer...he really is..." hell no!!!
>He was about to announce he had to go cause otherwise he'd miss
>his train! Now, THAT's a scientific answer!

>For all the money these people get for their idiotic allegations
>they should at least can affort a hotel-room, one would say...

>I don't actually know why the hell I'm telling you this...just a
>little story from Holland I guess...  :-)

>Andy.


Hi Andy,

No, you're telling it out of sheer frustration. I had the same
experience myself with this person, also in a filled lecture
hall. Perhaps your discussion took place during that event where
I debated him in Nijmegen? There were a few people of AURA in the
audience.

Here is a trick to let the frustration disappear. People like
Hulspas don't know what they are talking about as far as UFOs are
concerned. Just remind yourself of that and it becomes easy.
Don't let yourself be intimidated by their high media profile and
their big mouth. They don't know what they're talking about,
period.

BTW. I informed the chief editor of the magazine he works for
that UFOs are a reality and that Hulspas is as biased as can be.
I could do that after having written for the same mag for five
years and after having built up a reputation for being right on
controversial issues. Perhaps you have noticed that the subject
of UFOs didn't come up in his columns during the whole of 1997,
while there was ample occasion to?

Keep your cool, Andy.


            __________________________________________
           /    Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes    \
                      Henny van der Pluijm
                      hvdp@worldonline.nl

                       Technology Pages
                http://home.worldonline.nl/~hvdp
             \______________________________________/






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   Apr > Apr 10

                          Re: Pyramids on Mars...?

From: Angel <gandalf@seker.es> [Xavier Soler]
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:20:51 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:36:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Pyramids on Mars...?

Hello to all ufo-updaters! ;-)

Nowadays everybody is talking about the famous city of Cydonia,
the fort, the D&M Pyramid, but, has anyone noticed that in the
region of Elysium there are perfectly aligned and defined
pyramids? Does anyone know if Nasa is planning to re-photograph
that zone? Please, take a look at the pictures sent by the
mariner 9.

Second, I'm very surprised that ANY of the NASA probes recently
sent to Mars hold in their agendas the study and scanning of the
Mars satelites, Phoebus and Deimos. If you remember the
'incident' with the Russian Fobos 2, the thing is getting
stranger. I personally think that the satelites of Mars deserve
far more attention from our space agencies.

Maybe we're looking at the wrong place...

AMR.
Sap Developer.
Boehringer Mannheim.
Europe.









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   Apr > Apr 10

                       Re: Mars Face, yes it's there!

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:22:11 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:31:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Face, yes it's there!


>Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 17:26:50 -0400
>From: "PHD: Feanturi" <ATKMajic@iname.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mars Face, yes it's there!

>I've seen all the sites based on the Viking images of the Cydonia
>region, and even though I tried to be open minded, it really
>seemed they were reading way to much into some very blurry
>images. This result, how ever, is very clear.


>We are left with probabilities once again. Is it possible a
>natural formation, mirrored on the central axis, could produce
>such an image?

>Maybe. But the image produced is so many steps above the "virgin
>Mary in the wood knot", or "Jesus in the water stain" variety
>that it must be considered at least very peculiar.


I completely disagree.  There are whole books of photographs of
natural formations and things on earth that look like faces and
other parts of the human anatomy.  A standard exercise for
artists (mentioned by Leonardo da Vinci) is to stare at the
patterns in wood and find faces, figures, etc.  Everyone knows of
the faces you can easily find in clouds.  This is an aspect of
seeing, which involves not just the eyes and nerves, but the
interpretive aspects of the human brain and mind.

>Skeptics have accused others of seeing what they want to see. If
>the results had looked like a lump of clay, with rough bumps
>where the eyes, nose and mouth would be, I would have said,
>"yeah, it's just a hill".

>However, that's not what we got. If the eyes had been vertical,
>or way out of proportion, if the brows or the cheek bones went of
>at strange angles, if the mouth and chin weren't perfectly
>aligned, I'd say we were just trying real hard to see something
>that was there.

I looked at several web sites from people who have done
"analysis" of the "face" and find it interesting that what one
person says are clearly the nostrils, another says are clearly
the eyes.  By letting my imagination go, I can see an infant's
face, and old crone's face, a standard "smiley face", a scarab,
and several other things, but I am under no impression that any
of these are really anything more than tricks of perception.

People arguing about this should look at some books or CD ROMS on
optical illusions.

>We aren't talking about results that look like a face in a
>Picasso, we are talking about a very detailed, human/ simian
>face, not to mention that it "just happens" to have something
>that looks like an Egyptian Head Dress, etc...

I do not see a "very detailed" anything.

>I think that the skeptic's standard applies to you, in that you
>are refusing to see what you don't want to see.

>I leave it up to the Geologists and Mathematicians to determine
>just how improbable these result are to occur naturally, but
>there is something very profound in those images that at least
>deserves the proper investigation.

>Thanks for your comments,
>Fiontar McEoghan

Ultimately, this weird hill on Mars is turning into the greatest
Rorschach ink blot that mankind has ever encountered.  Everyone
will see/not see what fits within their view of the universe most
conveniently.

Bob








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   Apr > Apr 10

                     Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:35:25 GMT
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:18:50 -0400
Subject: Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face


>From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia]
>Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 00:49:09 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

>They may be natural but we need to wait before we know more.

Wait for what?  The original face at 10m resolution was pretty
stunning indeed.  I kept alot of hope MGS would reveal the face's
zits, so to speak!  Guess what? At 1.3 m resolution, the face
doesn't have zits, and it's no face!  There is nothing left to
o.  The detail is there which shows a natural geological process.

It is what it is - no aliens involved, and nothing sinister.
Unless of course if you believe that the aliens designed it to
only be seen with such bad (10 m) resolution at a certain sun
angle.  Or that the governments of Earth sent a fleet of nuclear
missiles to destroy it!

This is so much fun!


--
Roger R. Prokic
Telecom Design Lead
Mars Surveyor Program 2001
Lockheed Martin Astronautics
Denver, Colorado USA
- sent from a PalmPilot Professional -






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   Apr > Apr 10

                   Tom Van Flandern on New Cydonia Images

From: JJ Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:23:17 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:15:44 -0400
Subject: Tom Van Flandern on New Cydonia Images

>From : http://www.metaresearch.org/announce/pa45-cyd.htm

Preliminary Analysis of April 5 Cydonia Image from the Mars
Global Surveyor Spacecraft

Tom Van Flandern
Meta Research

Background. Viking spacecraft images of Mars in the late 1970s
included a photo showing an object that resembled half a human
face, with shadows hiding anything that might lie to its
immediate east. This drew scientific attention (as well as much
unscientific attention) to this object and its vicinity, now
named the Cydonia region.

Many of the objects near the Face object proved to be anomalous
as well. A team of scientists found the region so scientifically
interesting that they proposed a variety of tests that would
measure the relative probability that the landforms found there
are natural formations versus artificial structures. We now know
eight such tests. The test results remained mixed until the end
of 1996, despite favoring an artificial origin. Then a possible
connection between Cydonia and the exploded planet hypothesis
(eph) came to light in December 1996. This reversed the
conclusions of the three test results appearing to favor a
natural origin.

In light of the eph connection, these test results now favor an
artificial origin of Cydonia at better than a 99% confidence
level. Details of the tests and the exploded planet connection
can be found in this authors paper New Evidence of Artificiality
at Cydonia on Mars, Meta Res.Bull., vol. 6, #1 (1997), also
posted at <www.metaresearch.org>.

At this time, all available test results indicated a probable
artificial origin for objects in the Cydonia complex. This
engendered high public interest. Consequently, on March 26
JPL/NASA announced that Cydonia would be one of the priority
targets for the Mars Global Surveyor (MGS) spacecraft during the
month of April 1998. The new camera was capable of producing
images with 10-50 times better resolution than the earlier Viking
images. On April 5, it captured the first such image.
This report contains an analysis of this first MGS image and its
implications for the artificiality hypothesis.

Description of the image. The spacecraft is in a near-polar
orbit, and its high-resolution camera took a 4.4-km wide, 42-km
long roughly north-south strip photo across the Cydonia region in
a band that included the Face near its center. The spacecraft's
orbit passed well to the west of the Cydonia region on this
occasion, producing a viewing angle much lower than in any
previous photos having useful resolution. The minimum range was
about 440 km. Lighting conditions corresponded to late morning by
local time at Cydonia. However, with the Sun well to the south of
the Martian equator and Cydonia 41 degrees to the north, sunlight
was also from a low angle to the southeast. Its altitude above
the horizon was 25 degrees.

Initial press reports. Yielding to pressure for rapid release,
JPL/NASA took the unprecedented step of releasing raw,
unprocessed imagery to the Internet hours before good quality,
contrast-enhanced images could be posted. Unfortunately, many
individuals and even media, inexperienced with handling raw
images and with imaging processing techniques, jumped to
conclusions based on a casual glimpse at this image. Most of
these did not attempt to analyze the image content or compare it
against the criteria for artificiality under discussion.
Headlines were based on statements made only by biased
individuals willing to comment without careful or proper
analysis, and happy to seize on the lack of obvious face-like
details in the raw image to ridicule the whole artificiality
issue. The media need to become aware in general that such
individuals are not acting as objective scientists. In effect,
they have made themselves cheerleaders for one side of a
controversial issue. The choice for the media here, as always, is
between getting the first headlines versus getting the story
right.

Does the Face still look like a face? From this viewing angle
with this lighting, the resemblance to a face was rather poor in
the initial images. Because of the poor contrast in the raw
images, the lowness of the viewing angle was not immediately
obvious. The whole Face landform seemed to be visible. Part of
that is a new mini-mock face consisting of boulders and crevices
bears little resemblance to a true face, but which led many to
think they were seeing the Face itself at higher resolution. That
was not the case, and led to many of the erroneous statements
that appeared on the first day.

With processed, contrast-enhanced images to study, we now know
that the eastern half of the Face is almost completely hidden
behind the nose bridge. This is especially difficult to notice
due to the absence of shadows on the eastern (sunlit) portion.
However, this new image shows only the western half of the Face,
the half also prominent in Viking imagery. Once that is
recognized and the new perspective and lighting are considered,
the features identified in earlier images are plain to see
again.

Figure 1 shows the earlier Viking image plus the new image
oriented similarly and scaled to comparable size. It also shows
the same new image as a negative to simulate the partial reversal
of light and dark areas between the two images.

The object would still look very much like a humanoid face if the
viewing angle were from above and the lighting angle were from
the low west. This would reproduce the conditions for the older
Viking images. The higher viewing angle would allow us to peer
over the nose bridge to the east side in the new image as we
could in the old image, allowing us to see that both sides of the
face are reasonably symmetric. This symmetry is near impossible
to see in the new image alone. Moreover, as the middle image best
demonstrates, the brightness of the sunlight washes out details
on the east side that can be seen in the Viking image, such as
the continuation of the mouth.

But why should these special conditions be necessary for optimal
viewing? One possibility is that the feature is natural and only
accidentally looked like a face under any conditions. But faces
in general change appearance depending on viewing angle and
lighting. Consider what a human face looks like if illuminated
only by a flashlight held under the chin. Or if we are too far to
one side, we see only a profile.

The aforementioned connection to the exploded planet hypothesis
tells us that, if artificial, the Face builders would intend
viewing only from locations on the parent planet about which Mars
formerly orbited. Mars would always keep the same side toward its
parent (as is true of most major moons in the solar system). So
all viewing angles from the home world would necessarily be high
ones such as those available to Viking, but unlike the current
image. Note this is necessarily true if the Face is artificial.
It cannot be seen as a face from ground level on Mars, and cannot
be seen from any present-day solar system planet even in the
largest telescopes.

If the builders intended viewing from a nearby planet,
illumination of the Face would logically have been from west-side
and possibly east-side artificial ground illumination sources so
that the object would have maximum visibility during Martian
nighttime. This artificial lighting most closely resembles
sunlight conditions for the Viking photo, but is far from MGS
lighting conditions. Finally, viewing from the home planet would
have been distant enough that a hypothetical architect would have
needed only large-scale details. The blocks in the corners of the
west eye socket provide a rounded appearance to the socket when
viewed from a distance, but look like blocks when viewed from a
relatively close distance.

Biases. Scientists are human. But it is always disheartening to
see scientists behave unscientifically. In the first instance,
each of us needs to check our own behavior for biases. Scientific
Method calls for us to form explanatory hypotheses consistent
with the data and propose tests of those hypotheses. We all feel
sad when a favored hypothesis fails a test. But the trained
scientist knows not to engage in adding ad hoc helper hypotheses
to resurrect a hypothesis that has failed a test. That fact
notwithstanding, such behavior happens all the time. Indeed,
anyone reading the preceding paragraphs might well conclude that
it is happening here and now in this analysis paper.

The key to overcoming bias here is to examine what the hypothesis
as originally formulated actually predicted, and to compare that
to the new data. The need for model changes after the arrival of
new data is a good indicator of a failed or failing model unless
those changes reasonably could and should have been anticipated
before the new data. Conversely, the success of a model even
beyond the predictions actually made is a good indicator of a
solid model of scientific importance.

For the artificial origin of Cydonia hypothesis, considerations
of a possible link between Cydonia and the exploded planet
hypothesis led to several specific predictions that were
fulfilled before this new image arrived. If artificial, the Face
was apparently intended for viewing from a parent planet, making
high-resolution detail unnecessary, high viewing angles
mandatory, and artificial ground lighting from the sides
probable. Therefore, as speculative as the description I gave
above may seem to those unfamiliar with evidence supporting the
exploded planet hypothesis [see the authors book, Dark Matter,
Missing Planets and New Comets, North Atlantic Books, Berkeley
(1993)], the argument is at least not ad hoc or after the fact.

By contrast, most scientists who believe in a natural origin of
the landforms at Cydonia did not make testable predictions,
contrary to what Scientific Method requires. They tended to focus
on the physical appearance of a high-resolution, low viewing
angle, low illumination angle, well-eroded landform, rather than
on specific tests of artificiality. Their opinions are often no
more than a reinforcement of their previous conclusions, without
benefit of analysis or testable predictions to justify such
reinforcement.

Typically, scientists in this class say the odds against
artifacts on Mars are enormous, a statement that cannot be
justified, and exemplifies the problem with their approach. If
our galaxy has evolved intelligent life many times, all
terrestrial planets in it may have been visited and contain
artifacts, making the probability of finding artifacts on any of
them close to 100%.

Conclusions drawn from invalid assumptions are not often noted
for their usefulness.

How did the eight tests of artificiality fare? The new image
could potentially shed light on just two of the eight tests for
artificial origin of Cydonia. In brief, the eight tests and their
pre-MGS-image results are:

1. The Face has face-like 3-dimensional contours, and does not
resemble a face merely because of albedo variations (light and
dark areas) or because it is seen in profile (easy to happen by
chance).

2. The Face registers as artificial in military software designed
to detect artificial objects in camouflage by measuring the
degree of fractality in images.

3. The numerous mounds on the Cydonia plain, rare elsewhere on
the Martian surface, are non-randomly distributed and repeat
significant angles more often than chance will allow.

4. A number of anomalous and artificial-looking landforms are
present among the objects nearest the Face.

5. The Face appears to have bilateral symmetry.

6. The Face appears in a culturally significant location on the
planet, the old equator.

7. The Face has a culturally significant orientation, aligned
north-south and upright.

8. The Face has a culturally significant purpose, to be viewed
from the home planet of the builders, for which Mars was a
synchronous moon.

The previous test results were positive for artificiality for all
eight tests once the exploded planet hypothesis is considered.

The new image potentially bears on tests #1 and #5, but sheds no
new light on any of the other tests.

However, because the image shows only the western half of the
Face, it cannot confirm or deny previous image-enhancement work
on two Viking photos that suggested bilateral symmetry is
present. As for test #1, the new image does confirm that the west
eye socket is a real depression and not a shadow, that the bridge
of the nose is the highest feature on the mesa, and that the west
side of the mouth is a real ravine and not just a shadow.
Unfortunately, little information about the east eye socket and
east side of the mouth can be gleamed from this image. But both
of these are seen in the Viking imagery.

Our conclusion is that the new image confirms the results of one
test, and does nothing to weaken the test results for the other
seven.

New features. We all hoped that the higher resolution would show
something that would resolve the controversy surrounding the
artificiality of Cydonia. It may have done that. However, so many
scientists jumped the gun and made statements to the press prior
to image analysis that opinions have been formed and hardened,
and now many people cannot look at the situation objectively
without some loss of face (no pun).

But a great deal of new information has become available to us
because of the much improved resolution and different
perspective.

An asymmetrical or highly fractal appearance of the Face mesa
would have been compelling evidence for a natural origin of at
least this one feature, and with it the significance of six of
the eight tests of artificiality for Cydonia. But the reality is
that the object has a high degree of symmetry and very low
fractal content, consistent with artificial origin. Lets examine
some specific findings:

Below I list some of the highlights of new features seen in this
5-meter resolution image, mainly using those with full
contrast-enhancement. But many details are seen to varying
degrees in views with different brightness/contrast or other
image processing settings.

=B7 Headdress: Old low-resolution photos gave limited details of
this feature. The new MGS image shows that it wraps at least
three-fourths of the way around the Face mesa, a distance of
roughly 5 km. A line along the east side of the mesa hints
strongly that this feature wraps all the way around, except
perhaps for an entranceway at the southeast corner. The old
Viking photos from a higher viewing angle confirm that this is
the case the feature wraps around almost the entire mesa.
Allowing for perspective, the headdress appears to have a uniform
height of hundreds of meters over most or all of this span. Both
its bottom and top follow smooth, regular lines or curves. The
sides are straight, the bottom is smoothly rounded, and the top
has symmetric right-angle bends in both corners. The top has a
symmetric round-shape cap containing markings that, when combined
with older images, are suggestive of a ceremonial purpose. A
smooth, uniform-width trough seems to separate the headdress
feature from the rest of the Face mesa, at least on the west and
top sides. The headdress feature strongly reinforces the
artificiality interpretation.

=B7 Face: Once careful allowance is made for perspective, the
features start to look quite regular. The initial chaos that
greets the eye soon falls into familiar functional patterns. The
comparison between new and old images in the small insets above
is helpful if extrapolating the correct perspective for our
vantage point. The west top of the Face contains what appears to
be a raised eyebrow. In previous stereo imagery, this feature was
indistinct and seemed out of place on the forehead, and a
possible cause of a shadow producing the false appearance of a
west eye socket. The new image removes all doubt: The raised
feature has the size, shape and orientation of an eyebrow,
including a bend or furrow. Moreover, the eye socket is a deep
hollow with no need of a shadow from the eyebrow to create its
appearance. The deep west eye socket is delimited by elongated
rectangular-looking blocks that appear placed to create the
appearance of roundness for the socket.

The nose clearly contains two indentations placed and oriented
correctly for nostrils, and the nose bridge narrows as it
approaches the forehead. Neither the eyebrow nor the nostrils
were predicted, but clearly could have been. And it is an amazing
coincidence that these uniquely facial features exist in a
landform resembling a face if the structure is not artificial.
The interior of the mouth has a faint vertical jagged appearance
almost suggestive of teeth. The chin is indistinct, but not
obviously incorrect. Three regular, parallel lineaments (long,
short, and long) just to the west of the nose bridge, and another
just beneath the mouth, are again suggestive of ornamental facial
decorations or a costume, consistent with the headdress. The
features of a near-perfect face are all present, and almost every
feature seen on the mesa has a size, shape, and orientation that
enhances the appearance of a decorated face in headdress. No
imagination is required. But we do require views from different
viewpoints at different illuminations with different contrast
enhancements, and the ability (which many people do not possess,
according to Piaget) to mentally change perspectives.
Those who possess such ability can mentally merge the images and
see the combined features in 3-D. In such a view, no reasonable
doubt appears to remain about the artificiality of this object.

=B7 Crest: This is a new low-contrast feature seen over the top of
the headdress and its cap. We can trace its curve around the east
side almost down to chin level, but nearly a face-diameter away.
Unfortunately, the image does not extend far enough to see if the
west side is also symmetric. But if it were, this would add
emphasis to an extensive and unusual feature favoring
artificiality. Possible other similar but fainter features may
surround this one, giving a shroud-like appearance.

=B7 Ridges: A face-diameter to the north we can trace some
extremely faint uniformly spaced irregular ridgelines. I count no
fewer than 15 in the best contrast-stretched views. Many more of
these appear to the south. Their nature must apparently remain a
matter of conjecture until NASA can obtain some ground truth.

=B7 Courtyard: Half way from the Face to the bottom of the strip
frame is a half-kilometer crater with a rim that looks more like
an enclosure than a crater rim. This is principally because it is
so out of round, and because the rim starts at an interior point
and completes its circumference by joining on to a different
point, resulting in some rim overlap. There are two unresolved
structures in the interior that are approached by the rim
starting point, and a third, larger structure inside the rim
behind the other two.

=B7 Animal: The largest feature in the strip, three-fourths of the
way down from the Face, has the striking appearance of a
pictogram, reminiscent of animal drawings in the Peruvian and
Chilean desert sands. Since it appears not to have been noticed
or named previously, but is the largest feature in the strip
frame, I thought to give it a name for referring to it
succinctly. It also seems to have a sharp and well-delineated
boundary perhaps  hundreds of meters high, similar to but far
more irregular in shape than the headdress around the Face.

=B7 Comb and Teeth: A truly remarkable set of 20 short, parallel
white lines slant down and to the east from the next feature down
below the animal I call the comb. A similar set of lines slant
down and to the east from the bottom and lower east side of the
animal itself. I call these the teeth, although they tend to give
the seeming pictogram the aura-like appearance of rays coming
from it.

=B7 D&M Pyramid: At the bottom of the strip we encounter the melt
pool on the east side of the largest Cydonian pyramid-like
structure. Unfortunately, the frame cuts off on the west and
south sides too soon to see any trace of the high-interest
pyramid itself. But the crater on the shadowed side of Viking
imagery is now resolved. Earlier speculation about its unusual
depth because of its very black shadow and invisible ottom
appears justified in this new image. Although we now see the
bottom, the walls are quite high and steep for the crater width.
We also see an unusual gouge into the nearby terrain on the
northwest side where the rim appears open. In the context of the
pyramid itself, this author has suggested the possibility that an
artificial explosion might have formed this crater. This
hypothetical explosion might explain damage to the east side of
the pyramid (presumed artificial), splitting and shifting its
base and melting enough material to produce the surrounding melt
pool on that side. Nothing in the new, high-resolution image
appears to counter that hypothesis, but no realistic test is
possible until the pyramid itself is imaged.

Conclusion. A preliminary analysis of the portion of the Cydonia
plain revealed in high-resolution by the Mars Global Surveyor
spacecraft on April 5 shows that the early claims of conclusive
natural origin for the landforms were, at best, premature. The
eight original tests of artificiality indicated artificial origin
to a degree suggesting that priority targeting of Cydonia was
justified. This new high-interest image shows that such priority
was justified, and calls for continued high priority for
additional images, as is planned.

The humanoid facial features that first drew attention to this
area are confirmed by this photo despite poor lighting and poor
viewing angle. One feature, the headdress, is so much a
symmetrical combination of right-angle linear and rounded
features as to suggest artificiality strongly. Using the ability
to change mental perspectives, one can see the mesa clearly,
without imagining details, as an excellent rendition of a
sculpted face. Other new features are so uncommon that they raise
more questions than they answer. Nothing yet seen on our Moon or
any other solar system surface besides Earth suggests
artificiality to a comparable degree.

Objectivity. When dealing with scientific matters, especially
controversial ones, it is of great importance that scientists
conduct themselves in accord with the procedures of Scientific
Method, and remove, to the maximum extent possible, the effects
of prior bias from their conclusions. It is unfortunate, if
understandable, that some scientists drew public conclusions for
the press without background or analysis sufficient to justify
their statements. It is even more regrettable that JPL and NASA
did not publicly disassociate their agencies from such
unscientific statements made by their own employees, thereby
fostering the view in the public that JPL and NASA condone such
unprofessional conduct by scientists. This engenders disrespect
for all of science and all scientists, and should now be dealt
with forthrightly in the appropriate manner before further damage
occurs in connection with the next set of Cydonia pictures.







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   Apr > Apr 10

                  Re: Neg Reversal of Mars Images by NASA?

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:25:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:37:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Neg Reversal of Mars Images by NASA?


>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:02:34 +0200
>Subject: Re: Neg Reversal of Mars Images by NASA?

>Hi Bob and list members!

>Just to put things straight. I didn't post Alexander
>Krivenyshev's or McEoghan's theories about the "Mars Face" to
>endorse them in any way, but to give an impression of the
>discussion that is going on.

>Of course the possibility, that NASA, as part of a conspiracy,
>would commit the transparent fraud of posting a negative, is
>nonexistent, but McEoghan's idea of turning the face 37 degrees
>so that it is seen straight up and down, seems excellent to me.

>Stig


Rotating the image 37 degrees only makes sense if you think
it IS a face.  Why should NASA, who obviously think it is a hill,
do anything like that???

For NASA/JPL to do this would imply support of the opinion that
there is something there.  Obviously, there isn't.

Bob








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                  Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:40:23 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 02:44:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic

>Subject: UFO UpDate: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic
>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:21:47 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>> From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
>> To: updates@globalserve.net
>> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:42:40 +0200
>> Subject: Fwd: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic

>> Received via "alt.alien.research" April 7 at 10.18 local time
>>(GMT + 1 hour).

>> Two thirds of the data is missing!! Using a histogram, both
>> Richard Hoagland and Keith Rowland have determined that two
>> thirds of the data on the RAW image of Cydonia is missing! The
>> histogram shows that on a gray scale of a possible 256 shades of
>> gray, there is only 70-80 shades of gray on the image-two thirds
>> is missing!! Hoagland calls the picture CRAP and useless. Any
>> pictures made from the raw image are also missing two thirds of
>> the data. In simple terms, this means two thirds of the detail
>> are missing.

>> The question now is WHY.


>Because the image has low contrast. Jeez.

>------
>Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at

Yeah.  I wondered how many would notice that Hoagland is
spouting absolute and utter nonsense.

So the contrast is low.  So effing what!!!

Damn, if these people had been in my basic photography course
when I was still teaching, they would all have flunked!

Rather than "curioser and curioser" this just gets sillier
and sillier.

Bob








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                            Re: Mars Face Report

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:30:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 02:38:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Face Report

>Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:36:21 -0400
>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Mars Face Report
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>Yes... I checked... Definitely not enough. And I need more than
>that.

>Incidently, somehow I get the impression that you could use a
>little yourself..... lithium, at least....


No, man, I'm a Prozac person!

This mars face fiasco has got me so pissed off that I popped
a double dose this morning.

Doesn't seem important at all now.

Bob








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                       Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:36:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 02:42:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism
>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:13:53 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>Nevertheless, a close examination of Martian and terrestrial
>geoforms shows that the Cydonia landforms are far from unique,
>and that artificiality is not likely.

>------
>Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at


And that pretty much says it all, Mark.

But I suspect that this point will be belabored and
tugged on like an old dog bone for years.

Bob








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                  Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic

From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:45:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 03:19:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic

> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:50:40 GMT
> From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re:  UFO UpDate: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic

> >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
> >To: updates@globalserve.net
> >Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:42:40 +0200
> >Subject: Fwd: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic

> >Two thirds of the data is missing!! Using a histogram, both
> >Richard Hoagland and Keith Rowland have determined that two
> >thirds of the data on the RAW image of Cydonia is missing! The
> >histogram shows that on a gray scale of a possible 256 shades of
> >gray, there is only 70-80 shades of gray on the image-two thirds
> >is missing!! Hoagland calls the picture CRAP and useless. Any
> >pictures made from the raw image are also missing two thirds of
> >the data. In simple terms, this means two thirds of the detail
> >are missing.

> >The question now is WHY.

> No.  The real question is why do you believe that fool trying to
> save "Face".

> How can there be data missing when the resolution is 10x better
> than Vikings images?

> In fact, there's more data!  Think about it.

> Roger R. Prokic

Roger,

The Malin camera was supposed to be capable of displaying 256
shades of gray.  Histogram analysis of the dataset of the face
made available by NASA is supposed to have shown only 70-80
shades of gray.  This is as you know an aspect of the data set
which is independent of the spatial resolution. Either the raw
data is raw and includes the complete dynamic range of the camera
or it doesn't and it represents a subset of the data.

Whether or not Hoagland is a fool.  What does a histogram
analysis of the grayscale dynamic range of the raw data set show?
 This would clarify the issue a lot more than name calling.

One of the basic principles of imaging is that greater dynamic
range depending on the imaging target can be more valuable in
perception of a target than increased spatial resolution.  This
means that objects can be better imaged say at 100x100x256 than
300x300x80.

These principles are in any basic image processing textbook.
Increased spatial resolution alone does not produce a superior
image.


Gary






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                  Re: "Danger in our Skies" and holographs

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:47:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 03:13:31 -0400
Subject: Re: "Danger in our Skies" and holographs

>Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:31:02 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John <jvif@spacelab.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs


>Watch the tape again Steve! When they went to the Mexico City
>segment they showed a picture of two 'beams' near the same
>building where the 'UFO' was videoed. That was the tie in to what
>those two "non-lethal weapons experts" were proposing. They said
>that because of the overcast sky conditions that it would have
>been possible to project a holographic image (such as the UFO)
>into the area. Which sounds like total bullshit to me!

Yes, John it is total bullshit.  Projecting holograms is something
that some of the best minds have been trying to do, but so far with
no real success.  Also, holograms are either monochromatic or show a
diffracted spectral color appearance.  I'm sure witnesses would
notice this effect.

So, what would work would be to make a GIANT hologram on film, hang
this film from a helicopter, and hit it with a laser beam to make
the virtual image.  Yeah, sure!!!

If it's a fake, someone whipped it up in a computer.

Bob

P.S.: Is the Museum of Holography still open in the city?  If
so, go by some time.  Great stuff!  Their staff could tell you
how likely this is to be a hologram.

P.P.S.: To be technically accurate, the film on which the image
is captured is a holograph.  The virtual image created from this
film is a hologram.








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                   Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic

From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com> [Gary Alevy]
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:48:43 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 03:23:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic

> Subject: UFO UpDate: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic
> From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:21:47 -0400
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> > From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
> > To: updates@globalserve.net
> > Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:42:40 +0200
> > Subject: Fwd: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic

> > Received via "alt.alien.research" April 7 at 10.18 local time
> >(GMT + 1 hour).

> > Two thirds of the data is missing!! Using a histogram, both
> > Richard Hoagland and Keith Rowland have determined that two
> > thirds of the data on the RAW image of Cydonia is missing! The
> > histogram shows that on a gray scale of a possible 256 shades of
> > gray, there is only 70-80 shades of gray on the image-two thirds
> > is missing!! Hoagland calls the picture CRAP and useless. Any
> > pictures made from the raw image are also missing two thirds of
> > the data. In simple terms, this means two thirds of the detail
> > are missing.

> > The question now is WHY.

> Because the image has low contrast. Jeez.
>
> ------
> Mark Cashman

Mark,

You have not addressed the question as to why the image has low
contrast.  By definition the histogram analysis shows that, what's
your explanation for why that is the case?

Gary






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                     Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia]
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:44:08 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 03:34:34 -0400
Subject: Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

>Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:35:25 GMT
>From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re:  UFO UpDate: Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

 >>From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia]
 >>Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 00:49:09 EDT
 >>To: updates@globalserve.net
 >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

 >>They may be natural but we need to wait before we know more.

 >Wait for what?  The original face at 10m resolution was pretty
 >stunning indeed.  I kept alot of hope MGS would reveal the face's
 >zits, so to speak!  Guess what? At 1.3 m resolution, the face
 >doesn't have zits, and it's no face!  There is nothing left to
 >do.  The detail is there which shows a natural geological process.

 >It is what it is - no aliens involved, and nothing sinister.
 >Unless of course if you believe that the aliens designed it to
 >only be seen with such bad (10 m) resolution at a certain sun
 >angle.  Or that the governments of Earth sent a fleet of nuclear
 >missiles to destroy it!

 >This is so much fun!

 --
 >Roger R. Prokic


Roger,

Obviously you don't read the posts before you respond to them.
Once again you refer to The Face. We're NOT talking about
The Face right now so ignore it. Let us say that it's 100%
natural. So what. The other photos of The City haven't been
taken yet. They will be on April 14. If they turn out to be
mountains then so be it. Not all of us jump to conspiracy
theories when things turn out differently than we thought.

Joe in Tampa






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                  Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:06:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 03:25:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic

>Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:50:40 GMT
>From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re:  UFO UpDate: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic


>>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:42:40 +0200
>>Subject: Fwd: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic

>>Two thirds of the data is missing!! Using a histogram, both
>>Richard Hoagland and Keith Rowland have determined that two
>>thirds of the data on the RAW image of Cydonia is missing! The
>>histogram shows that on a gray scale of a possible 256 shades of
>>gray, there is only 70-80 shades of gray on the image-two thirds
>>is missing!! Hoagland calls the picture CRAP and useless. Any
>>pictures made from the raw image are also missing two thirds of
>>the data. In simple terms, this means two thirds of the detail
>>are missing.

>>The question now is WHY.

>No.  The real question is why do you believe that fool trying to
>save "Face".

>How can there be data missing when the resolution is 10x better
>than Vikings images?

>In fact, there's more data!  Think about it.

>--
>Roger R. Prokic


I find Hoagland's desperate attempts to cling to his fantasy
depressing.  The man just can't let go.

Anyone who works in digital imaging knows that 256 shades of
gray just represents the maximum number of shades available.
A very large number of images I work with day in and day out
have fewer shades of gray.  That is NOT missing data.  It is
missing shades of gray, nothing more, and is related to image
contrast.  If you want 256 shades of gray in the image, it
is simple in Adobe PhotoShop or most any other high-end imaging
program to adjust the contrast to give you as many shades of
gray as you want.

Why does an image have fewer shades of gray?  Because of low
subject contrast in most cases.  What controls subject
contrast?  Well things like angle and diffusion of light.  We
are told by NASA/JPL that there was some cloud cover when the
image was shot.  Guess what folks?  Yep, cloud cover reduces
contrast, both by lowering the contrast of the light striking
the surface, and by lowering it again when the image forming
light passes through the clouds again on its way to the orbiting
camera.  This is all Photo 101 stuff, folks.  This is not
rocket science!

Every month I write and edit articles on photography and
digital imaging for one of the world's foremost photography
magazine.  This is my job, my field of expertise.  When
I hear someone like Hoagland spouting absolute gibberish about
imaging, it really makes me very angry.

Bob








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                       Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:04:20 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 03:31:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism


> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:08:21 -0500
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: John <jvif@spacelab.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

> >Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:50:04 -0400
> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

> >>Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 09:31:34 -0700
> >>From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl>
> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

> Hi All,

> Would like to kill two birds with one stone if you'll permit.

> John Velez

> Andy wrote,

> >>Hi John,

> >>Okay, I do absolutely agree that the most important reason to
> >>assume there are any artificial structures in the Cydonia-region
> >>always were the pyramidlike structures. But, what I wonder is the
> >>following:

> >>Have you ever seen the structure you find in some semi-precious
> >>stones? Just take a look at the natural shape of raw crystals or
> >>amethyst and on the endings of these stones you can also find,
> >>almost pyramidlike shapes.

> >>So it seems that even these shapes don't HAVE to be artificial.

> OK, show me a mountain sized crystal shaped structure and I'll
> consider your comparison. The simple fact is (and I'm no
> geologist) that there are no mountains that we know of with such
> symetrical shapes. I wasn't saying or implying that these
> structures are/were artificial- only that they are the _best
> argument_ for artificial structures on Mars. If they turn out to
> be rocks and debris then they are rocks and debris. I was
> agreeing with Tampa Joe that we should all wait until -all- of
> the pictures are in and they have been scrutinized/analyzed. I'm
> wasn't making an argument for or against their reality. Folks
> just love to read what they want to see rather than what I've
> written. Been the bane of my existence! <G>

> Andy continues, . . .

> >>Now though, it almost looks like no ufologist has ever believed
> >>or was interested in the "Face", and that doesn't seem true to
> >>me! C'mon know yourselves and admit that just like me, we're
> >>really all hoping the "city" is turning out what we hoped to
> >>be...

> No. Sorry, I'm not like _you_ at all. You can't jump off of a
> 'bandwagon' that you were never on to begin with! This post is
> the first time that I have ever mentioned the so-called 'Mars
> anomalies.' You or anyone else couldn't have known what my
> thoughts/opinions or beliefs about the face on Mars were because
> I have never stated them. But then here, you paint me with your
> own brush and say, " C'mon know yourselves and admit that just
> like me, we're really all hoping the "city" is turning out what
> we hoped to be..."

> I have had no such "hopes" nor have I ever intimated anything of
> the kind. So, speak for yourself and please read my posts more
> carefully before you ascribe certain beliefs to me. I thank you
> in advance for your cooperation. <G>

> >>But were are we gonna take it when the City also turnes out to be
> >>nothin' at all...Let's all make sure to keep all our sences and
> >>don't bring in Illuminati, New World Orders or nuclair
> >>destruction of Mars,..

> I agree.

> >>No if there isn't any face, if there aren't any pyramids... SO
> >>WHAT, we made a mistake.

> You mean, _you_ made a mistake!

> >>Now it's up to us to deal with the matter, and what about doing
> >>that unlike scientists who make mistakes, and just ADMIT IT.
> >>Science should be progressive and NOT dogmatic.

> Amen!

> John Velez


John,
please do not get me wrong here, I wasn't refering to you as a person,
I don't know you at all, and so long as that's the case HOW can I speak
for you??? NOT AT ALL, and that's something I know and YOU should know
as well. I think that it's a language thing again...( Bob knows all
about that..  :-) The word "we" in dutch can also refer to the people
I'm working with,... here in Holland, that is.

Then, concerning the crystals: it only was a suggestion, and yes, I
agree as far as WE KNOW there no such huge crystals. I didn't suggest we
were lookin at huge pieces of crystal I only meant that shapes like that
can be natural. To illustrate this I mentioned semi-prec. stones, that's
all.

If you had the idea that I was refering to you in person when I said
that
"we should face the facts" I do apologize. I just was under the
impression that these mails are read not only by you, and that's why I
mentioned this in that certain message. Maybe not such a smart thing to
do, considering that I directed it to you.(that's what happens, when I'm
trying to answer mail on stupid times, remember there's a time
difference!) Well, next time I'll try to wake up first because in no way
is it my intention to hurt anyones feelings. And I don't like mine to be
hurt aswell!!! I do reject being called a believer, this is not true,
I just really SAW a face, not unlike most of you...that doesn't mean it
IS a face... So it seems you made a misjudgement also... how else culd
it be, since you know me as much as I know you. Let's change this a
little bit. I'm a regression-therapist and in 1990 I had my first
"abduction"-
case. I was VERY sceptical at first. A colleague of mine gave me a book
by Budd Hopkins. I looked into it about halfway and put it away. I
couldn't possibly believe a word of it. Untill about a year later my
second case showed up. Accendently. I went home and started to read
again
Surprisingly the same kind of story. After a while it turned out these
cases had a lot in common, I contacted Hilda Musch, a researcher who
worked on numerous of abduction-cases. She showed me drawings of beings,
tools and ships and the scared me to death. They could have been drawn
by one of the people I was working with. Even small details
matched...since then I changed my point of view, NOT because I believed,
no, I saw it with my own two eyes, so I KNOW, that's a difference...


peace ?


Andy.






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                      Re: Water found on Saturn's Moon

From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:37:15 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 03:42:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Water found on Saturn's Moon

>From: Kal K. Korff [TotlResrch@aol.com]
>Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 12:27:40 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Water Found on Saturn's Moon

>Recently, Joe Murgia wrote:

>snip>

>>I thought that somebody like YOU, [Kal] who is such a
>>scientific investigator, would understand that the important
>>photos from Cydonia haven't even been taken yet. I guess not.

>>Do some research Kal. It will do you some good. No theories
>>have been gutted yet.

>>Joe


>Dear Joe:

>Obviously, YOU are misinformed. Perhaps you missed Dr. Mark
>Carlotto's statement recently that he is prepared to admit that
>the "face" is a NATURAL FORMATION?

>I guess you apparently did!

>Is that "scientific" enough for you, Joe??

Well Kal, you mislead people. As I said, the data isn't complete
yet so no conclusions can be made. I wrote to Mark Carlotto and
asked him if he was prepared to make the statement that The Face
is natural. Here's my email to him with his response.

*Dear Mark,

*Sorry to bother you with such trivial matters but on an
*international UFO email list, the following was written
*to me. Is it accurate? It was in response to a post
*by me that stated that people should wait a bit before
*they jump to any conclusions.
*
*Thanks,

*Joe

--------------------

*Subj:   Re: Statement from you?
*Date:  98-04-10 11:14:10 EDT
*From:  markjc@mindspring.com (Mark Carlotto)
*To:    Ufojoe1@aol.com (Ufojoe1)

*I'm prepared to make the statement if there is no evidence to support
*artificiality. But we're not there yet.

*Mark

Well, well well. "We're NOT THERE YET"? Sounds like he's waiting
until all the evidence is in. This is what real scientists do.
And if anybody cares, Carlotto also stated in the MSN chat room
the other night, that even if The Face turns out to be natural,
the most important and intriguing objects have always been
located in "The City". "The Fort" being one of the most
interesting. We must wait and be cautious, Carlotto urged.

Kal, stop misleading people. And by the way, do you consider
Carlotto to be one of the "believers"? I hope not. I trust his
opinions more than most of the other independent researchers.

Kal also wrote:

>Furthermore, would you care to make a $1,000.00 bet with me that
>NO face will be found? I would place this bet that no face will
>be found, and you are free to take the "believer" side that a
>face will be found. Do you accept this challenge?

>Why not put your money where your mouth is?, as the saying
>goes??

Kal, I don't know if the objects are artificial or natural. If we
can both go to Mars and check it out, maybe I would bet you a
dollar. I don't bet big anymore. (Except lunch bets on the Tampa
Bucs). Blackjack has gotten the best of me. Like I said, I will
wait for ALL the data to come in before I say that the objects
(Not Just The Face) APPEAR natural or artificial. This is getting
old!!! How many times do I have to repeat myself? Objects not
Object! These misunderstandings of the data is really getting to
me! Read about nightmare below.

 >Of course, ANYONE, especially Richard Hoagland, who would say
 >that the face WAS a real face in the first place, is simply
 >making statements NOT derivable from the existing data. The
 >original images were simply too ill-defined to be 100%
 >conclusive.

 >THANKS for calling me "such a scientific investigator," I am
 >GLAD you realize this at least.

Do I need to write anything here?

 >The main point of my posting, by the way, was to let everyone
 >know about the new, exciting discovery (claimed by science) of
 >water on one of Saturn's moons.

 >I guess you missed this point as well.

That's great news. I didn't miss it. Only problem is that more
work is needed. Just like in the Cydonia case.

 >Instead of taking issue with me, why don't you go bother
 >Hoagland, who, at this rate, is going to have to backpedal from
 >lots of claims (and part of his livelihood) about Mars.

I do bother Hoagland and he has the courtesy to listen.
No matter what, Hoagland, with his many theories and all, is
one of the most dedicated, passionate people I have seen
out there. He may be wrong about a lot of things but at least
he tries. He doesn't claim to be a scientist and doesn't claim
to know everything unlike other people. Plus he's open minded
to consider many things in this world that we don't understand
yet. Say what you want about RCH but I really enjoy his
interviews. He seems to care about the human race and what
happens to us in the future if we keep on traveling on the same
path that we're on now. You can find fault in that? I hope not.

 >I also predict, no artificial "pyramids" and other such
 > nonsense will be found.

 >I sincerely hope I am WRONG on this.

Me too. But if not, oh well. By the way, for the 1000th time,
the researchers who have looked at this issue for the SPSR
are 25 scientists including 14 with PhDs. Are they all crazy
believers? By the way, most of them don't make one dime
on Cydonia research. I believe only Carlotto & McDaniel
have made money on books on the subject. I doubt it's
any substanial amount. Carlotto does this as a hobby.
He has a real job. McDaniel is retired. I don't know all
the details of the other guys. Hoagland isn't in this group
obviously.

 >Sincerely,

 >Kal (Looking forward to REAL science continuing to solve this
 >"mystery,"....which was never much of one in the first place),
 >Korff

Kal and everybody else,

I think it's time for me to take a break from all these Cydonia
arguments. Last night, I had a dream (At least I think it was a
dream) that a UFO was traveling across my ceiling over my bed. I
woke up screaming and scared the S**t out of my wife. Then in the
morning, I woke up with a bloody nose. I get those a lot after
being sick. I had been sick for two weeks. I don't think I had an
implant put in but you never know... Why do I all of a sudden
have an urge to make my mash potatoes in the shape of Devil's
Tower?

The other dream consisted of Kal Korff chasing me around
some house with a knife trying to kill me because of my
"mean" email to him. He didn't get me!!! I had read Kal's
response to me before going to bed so it was on my mind.
I need a break!!! Nobody should have to dream about Kal
Korff! No offense Kal. We all need to lighten up!

Oh yeah, I think Kal lightened up in the dream and wanted
to play some music. We somehow wound up in a music
warehouse with instruments. The owner of the warehouse
wouldn't let me play the drums so we had to take a raincheck.
I think Kal was ready to play the guitar. Is this sick or what.
Good Bye!!!

Joe in Tampa






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                 Re: Tom Van Flandern on new Cydonia images

From: James Horak <jho443@airmail.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:50:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 03:28:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Tom Van Flandern on new Cydonia images

JJ Mercieca wrote:

> >From : http://www.metaresearch.org/announce/pa45-cyd.htm

> Preliminary Analysis of April 5 Cydonia Image from the Mars
> Global Surveyor Spacecraft

> Tom Van Flandern
> Meta Research

Highly objective analysis, regardless of whether or not one
wishes to subscribe to the "exploding planet hypothesis." The
angles of camera approach are critical, not just resolution. One
thing additional, however, this is by no means the best image
capability obtainable and is NOT definitive. Furthering, every
bit, the tradition of avoidance by NASA rather than either full
compliance or candid disclosure.

Too little, and much too late.
JCH






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                          Re: Extraterrestrial Cafe

From: Tom Benson <sparkle@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:31:30 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:55:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Cafe


> Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 02:24:49 -0400
> From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com> [Gary Alevy]
> To: UFO UpDate <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Cafe


> Have you ever checked if there is such an organization?

> There is no phone listing or mail address in New York City for
> the so called "New York Center for UFO Research".  Micheal
> Luckman is a publicist with a phone line and an answering machine
> that doesn't return calls inquiring about this so called
> organization.

> He does have some connection or 'in' with the New York Post as
> they do periodically publish comments or press releases by him
> and this so called organization from time to time.  What for or
> what purpose is unclear.

> Does anyone have some background information on this
> organization?

> Gary

Gary:

The Center is "not" a scientific-oriented research organization,
but is mainly a "one man" promotional show. On occasion the
Center has sponsored lectures on the topic, usually at night
clubs (e.g., Village Gate) and once at a school in the same area.
Press conferences are addressed to sensational subjects, where
there is a higher probablity of press participation,
particularly, the tabloid style New York Post.  The events are
usually in the same general area because the promoter does not
like to travel far.  Perhaps, he is afraid of being abducted by
aliens who will attempt to collect fees promised, but not yet
delivered to former lecturers he sponsored at his events.

Tom





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              U.K. Team Discovers 2 New Faint, Distant Objects

From: "R. Matt Knudson" <KnudsonRM@chq.byu.edu>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:48:48 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:52:28 -0400
Subject: U.K. Team Discovers 2 New Faint, Distant Objects

Taken from SPACE NEWS, 6 April 1998, page 20

U.K. TEAM DISCOVERS 2 NEW FAINT, DISTANT OBJECTS

Two of the faintest objects ever seen orbiting the sun have been
observed by a team of astronomers from several institutions in
the United Kingdom.  One is estimated to be 150 kilometers
across, the other 110 kilometers, according to a statement from
the Royal Astronomical society, Cambridge, England.  Both are
more remote than Pluto, which is 30 times as far from the sun as
Earth.

Both objects are in the so-called Kuiper Belt in the region of
space beyond Neptune.  The researchers used the 2.5 meter Isaac
Newton Telescope on the island of La Palma in the Canary Islands
to image the sky for seven nights over an area slightly smaller
than that covered by Earth's full moon.

The astronomers were surprised not to find more objects in the
belt at this distance.  The fact that they did not may mean the
objects mark the outer edge of the belt.

-end-






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                  Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:00:20 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:59:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic

>Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:50:40 GMT
>From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re:  UFO UpDate: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic

> >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)

> >Two thirds of the data is missing!! Using a histogram, both
> >Richard Hoagland and Keith Rowland have determined that two
> >thirds of the data on the RAW image of Cydonia is missing! The
> >histogram shows that on a gray scale of a possible 256 shades of
> >gray, there is only 70-80 shades of gray on the image-two thirds
> >is missing!! Hoagland calls the picture CRAP and useless. Any
> >pictures made from the raw image are also missing two thirds of
> >the data. In simple terms, this means two thirds of the detail
> >are missing.

> >The question now is WHY.

> No.  The real question is why do you believe that fool trying to
> save "Face".

> How can there be data missing when the resolution is 10x better
> than Vikings images?

> In fact, there's more data!  Think about it.

Dear Mr. Prokic, Stig and list

I thought about it, but still don't quite understand.    Are
there some175-odd shades of grey "missing"?  Or is this just a
simple result of light conditions etc. when the image was taken.

Are there important differences between the "face" shots and
others which came in much clearer?  Were light conditions,
distances, Mars weather etc.  somehow selective or deselective in
the Cydonia region?

As for Hoagland, I heard the interview. I agree it was a rather
sad face-saving episode.   I was reminded of "radio-buttons" ..
you push down one piece of nonsense, and up pops another .. a
whirling dervish of  ideas that few can keep track of. Even the
extremely tolerant [ and seemingly credulous ] Art Bell was
getting lost, and audibly irritated.

So far, I see nothing to suggest anything artificial on Mars.

-  Larry Hatch










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                       Nua Blather: Pretty Good Friday

From: Dave Walsh <dave@nua.ie>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:03:19 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:02:28 -0400
Subject: Nua Blather: Pretty Good Friday

*******************************************************************
NUA BLATHER  NUA BLATHER NUA BLATHER
Weekly free email of Dogma Destruction,
Forteana and High Weirdness

By Daev Walsh   Email: blather@nua.ie
Web: http://www.nua.ie/blather/
*******************************************************************
April 10th 1998  Published By:  Nua Limited  Vol 1. No. 48
*******************************************************************


PRETTY GOOD FRIDAY
Welcome to this week's (Pretty) Good Friday Blather extravaganza,
disseminated from a uncharacteristically (for the time of year)
chilly Dublin, where vague hints of snow have been all day
threatening the populace.



GNOMES WANT TO BE FREE
A smattering of snippets assail us this week, first and foremost we
have the latest on gnome-napping. With the arrest of several members
of the Gnome Liberation Front last November, we at Blather
Operations were devastated, long time fans that we are these daring
surrealists, who tend to leave behind calling cards reading
'The Garden Gnomes Liberation Front has been here. Your gnomes are
now free and can finally live in peace together deep in the forest'.

However, all is not lost. Reuters, on April 3rd, reported a police
hunt for the 'gang' that liberated 100 gnomes from a private garden
in the Netherlands.


Also, Peter Darben (http://www.thehub.com.au/~wormman/wlcont.htm)
warned us that the appearance of an April 1 '10 News' that the story
of police netting a cache of stolen gnomes during a drug raid in
Brisburg, Northern Territory, Australia may well be apocryphal in
nature.

http://clever.net/quinion/words/n-nap1.htm
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/human_interest/oddly_enough/story.html?s=z/
reuters/980403/odd/stories/gnomes_1.html



NO POINT IN CRYING OVER SPILT BLOOD
Following last week's Blather
(http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/issue1no47.html) mention of the
impounding Virgin Mary statue that 'cries blood', the Associated
Press of April 6th followed up with an
announcement from the Bishop's office in Vic, which stated that the
alleged miracle was, surprise, surprise, a hoax. A spokesman for the
Bishop said that analysis of the bloodstains by a 'team of experts'
had shown that the blood was from. . . a finger wound; 'It (the
crying statue) proved to be the work of a rash group of adults
motivated by personal conflicts rather than malice against religion'.

'The blood was applied from outside, in a crude and shoddy way'

http://www.tampabayonline.net/news/news100f.htm
http://www.nando.net April 6


Not content with her treatment in Spain, Herself turned up in a
Mexican Cake on April 8th. Dozens of the faithful flocked to the
'Holy Week miracle' in the village Bacalar in eastern Quintana Roo,
some 650 miles (1040km)east of Mexico city.
Ms. Fernanda Rivas said she nearly fainted when she took the cake
from the oven, and saw the Virgin Mary's outline stamped in the middle. . .
and it now resides on an hastily constructed altar. Other recent
Mexican appearances have been in a sewage drain (in a Mexico City
subway station, and a dented fender of an old Chevy).

http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=2553666574-ae8



BUT A MAN IS NOT MADE FOR DEFEAT. . .
The ghost of U.S. novelist Ernest Hemingway is on the roam, according
to employees at his old estate, now a museum, near Havana in Cuba.
The 'ghost', has allegedly been witnessed by several people,
one former employee described it as a 'tall, red-faced man,
walking slowly, and dressed with bermudas, a light, baggy shirt, and
leather sandals'. This employee claims to have been pursued down a
track at the Finca Vigia estate, which is rather interesting,
considering he described that ghost as 'walking slowly'. The ghost
has also been said to whisper in another employees ear, and three
workers have resigned in fear. Cuban press agency Prensa Latina say that
local authorities reckon it will 'enhance the tourist appeal'.

http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=2553613111-265




WE BRING YOU THE VERY LATEST IN VIOLENT ANIMAL ESCAPADES
Yes, another. Perhaps silly season is with us all year round (blame
El Nino) these days, but these stories keep showing up, this time
with a 'classic' headline in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel of April
8th; 'Renegade Deer Terrorizes Norwegian Village, Steals Chain Saw'

The deer (species unspecified) had been 'terrorizing' the town of
Aardalstangen, 220 miles (352km) north of Oslo, for weeks, according
to the Aardal og Laerdal Avis newspaper. Knocking over garbage cans
at child care center, threatening cars and frightening residents were
amongst the big buck's crimes.

Sadly, things came to a head when the deer made off with a chainsaw
from the yard of one Olav Haereid, carrying the machine on its
antlers, prompting 'local officials' to shoot the enterprising
creature.

http://www.newsfinder.com/nf/offbeat/081569.html


ERRATA
Thanks to reader Douglas Wright, a missing word can be re-added to
the text of last week's Blather, regarding the God's Salvation Church
related suicide in China.


'He jumped into the ocean and drowned, after telling his folks that
wanted to see God arrive in a flying saucer.'


It should have read 'he wanted to see God'

Dave (daev) Walsh
10th April 1998


Feedback and comments to <blather@nua.ie>

Have your say: http://www.nua.ie/blather/blabber

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NUA : Internet Consultancy & Developer         http://www.nua.ie/
Dave Walsh <daev@nua.ie> Tel: +353-1-676-8996  Fax: +353-1-661-3932
Blather: http://www.nua.ie/blather - Weekly paranormal meanderings





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               Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:40:35 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:19:45 -0400
Subject: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

Theresa Carlson wrote:

> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 05:39:07 -0400
> From: Theresa Carlson <Tcarlson1@compuserve.com>
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

<major snip>

> And if there are any people on this list that are familiar with
> digital video making and editing you'll understand this. The
> buildings and foreground clutter in this video form a perfect
> travelling matte.  My guess is some one had already done some
> chroma, luma, or other color or alpha channel keying on it.  Not
> one of the experts mentioned that.  The UFO stays relatively in
> the same place, with only slight movement in left, right, up, and
> down directions.  And the buildings just pass in front of it. The
> UFO never passes in front of anything. An absolutely simple
> illusion to create.

<snip>

This is an excellent observation.  Only someone familiar with SFX
would see this; but, now that you point it out, the contrast
between the buildings and the sky make creating the matte a
breeze.

I'll tell you what bothers me about the video.  We never see the
saucer leave the site.  Now, it is possible that it zipped away
toward the horizon just opposite the camera; but, the odds of
this are slim.  And before anyone says that the cameraman simply
stopped filming at that point, ask yourself:  You're taping one
of the most historic scenes in history -- wouldn't you wanna
catch the saucer's exit?

I know this is all just circumstantial evidence; but, it sure
makes it hard to have faith in the veracity of the vid.

Terry







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                      Re: The New Mars Facial Structure

From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:35:50 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:07:50 -0400
Subject: Re: The New Mars Facial Structure

> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:36:34 -0400
> From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: The New Mars Facial Structure
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> >Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 01:35:10 -0400
> >From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com> [Gary Alevy]
> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The New Mars Facial Structure

> <snip>

> Perhaps you misunderstood what I am proposing... or I
> misunderstand what you are saying.

> Any picture can be considered the result of the convolution
> (integration of factors multiplied together ) of "filter
> function" that represent various stages of the picture
> acquisition. For example the size of the camera aperture, any
> aberrations in the lens and the shape/size of the focal plane CCD
> array and electronics following the CCD array are all represented
> as "functions" (of amplitude - saturation,gama- and of spatial
> frequency and of color, etc.) that must be convolved to get the
> electronic signal out of the CCD array.

> Then there are functions representing the transmission of the
> signal from the satellite, reception at the antenna, processing
> by the electronics and final presentation.

> All of these are "convolved" together and noise is added at each
> step. The net result is an image which is degraded as compared to
> the original scene as it would be if "perfectly viewed."

> Generally the process of deconvolution is to take the degraded
> scene and, insome way, "deconvolve" the degradations step by step
> to try to return get as close as possible to the "perfect image."
>  Hence it would make sense to use the known characteristics of
> teh MGS cameras, etc,. to take the newest images and try to
> "deconvolve" the degradations to get the best possible image.

> The point I was trying to make was a bit different.

> I was saying that the newest images are so much better than the
> old ones that we could start from the present images as if they
> were "perfect" and then apply the appropriate degradations (which
> I called "filters") to create an image similar to the Old Face
> (taking into account the direction of the solar illumination and
> the viewing direction from the satellite.   Thus one should be
> able to take the new image and modify it to create the old image
> and thereby establish a scientific link with the past.

> For one thing, this would prove that there had been no noticeable
> change in  the face over the last 20 years.   But more
> importantly it would show where/why the previous analysis/mage
> processing had "gone wrong" or had failed to produce the correct
> version of the face.  (For you conspiracy buffs: this would also
> act as an internal check on
> the data...i,.e., establish that there has been no "fudging" of
> the newest data!)

> One of the simplest degradations is the change in spatial (or
> pixel) resolution from 50 m or whatever it was 20 years ago to
> the present 4 meters.  This can be represented mathematically as
> a integrating "window filter" or a "low (spatial) frequency pass
> filter"  and hence my use of the term "filter" in th previous
> message. It could be as simple as a "square" window filter (which
> adds or integrates uniformly all sources of light within a
> resolution area)... or it could be a mre complicated "weighted"
> filter, e.g., weighted bya Gaussian function that itself
> represents the product of diffraction and lens aberrations.

> Anyway, I again suggest that this is what Carlatto should do to
> establish complete consistency between what we now have as a face
> image and what has been analyzed until everyone has become
> exhausted: Carlatto should use the new data, "deconvolved" as
> much as possible (degredations removed) to make a 3-D model. He
> should then place the sun and the viewing locations as they were
> 22 years ago and use appropriate filters (convolved together) to
> create the image as seen by the Viking

Bruce,

I had originally thought that you were saying that off the shelf
filtering functions, e.g. Laplacian filtering, etc. should be
applied. Excellent clarification, and I agree with your points.


I suggest that one problem with the current data set will be that
the viewing angles of the Viking and Surveyor images are quite
different and that no amount of modeling will be able to account
for that difference.

Thanks again for the clarification.

Gary








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                  Re: Neg Reversal of Mars Images by NASA?

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 02:20:50 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:20:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Neg Reversal of Mars Images by NASA?

>Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:25:49 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Neg Reversal of Mars Images by NASA?


>>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:02:34 +0200
>>Subject: Re: Neg Reversal of Mars Images by NASA?

>>Hi Bob and list members!

>>Just to put things straight. I didn't post Alexander
>>Krivenyshev's or McEoghan's theories about the "Mars Face" to
>>endorse them in any way, but to give an impression of the
>>discussion that is going on.

>>Of course the possibility, that NASA, as part of a conspiracy,
>>would commit the transparent fraud of posting a negative, is
>>nonexistent, but McEoghan's idea of turning the face 37 degrees
>>so that it is seen straight up and down, seems excellent to me.

>>Stig


>Rotating the image 37 degrees only makes sense if you think
>it IS a face.  Why should NASA, who obviously think it is a hill,
>do anything like that???

>For NASA/JPL to do this would imply support of the opinion that
>there is something there. Obviously, there isn't.

>Bob


Neither McEoghan nor I ever said that NASA should.

Stig











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              UFOR: Mars Global Surveyor Update - April 9, 1998

From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:11:18 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:23:06 -0400
Subject: UFOR: Mars Global Surveyor Update - April 9, 1998


From: baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Newsgroups: sci.space.news
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Sender: sci-space-news@yerevan.nasa.gov
Approved: sci-space-news@yerevan.jpl.nasa.gov
Message-ID: <10APR199800344825@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov>

>From the Mars Global Surveyor home page:
http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/target/update4-9.html

SUMMARY OF CLUSTER 1 TARGETED IMAGING
09-APR-98 3:30 PM PDT

Mars Global Surveyor has completed the first of three sets
(clusters) of specially targeted imaging opportunities during its
current hiatus in aerobraking. While it was estimated that
probability of successfully accomplishing this imaging would be
on the order of 30-50% for each of the images, owing to
navigation, spacecraft attitude control and map location
uncertainties, it appears that we have done somewhat better.

On April 3, 1998, at 0958 UTC, MGS pointed the Mars Orbiter
Camera toward the Viking Lander 1 site in Chryse Planitia. The
area was covered with a thin cloud layer and patchy thick clouds,
reducing but not eliminating surface visibility. The narrow angle
image had relatively low contrast but the contrast was sufficient
for adequate feature identification. This analysis showed that
the targeted spot for the Viking Lander 1 sites was approximately
40 pixels or 150 m off the western edge of the image, although it
was well centered in the north to south direction. We came very
close, and the pointing performance was well within the expected
variations of the spacecraft's attitude control system, and we'll
count this as a miss. Because the Lander was not in the picture,
we won't release the image at this time.

Viking Lander 2 is located in Utopia Planitia, further north and
on the other side from Mars from Viking Lander 1. When MGS imaged
this area on April 3, at 2137 UTC, on the orbit following the
Viking Lander 1 observation, it found the area in heavy overcast,
with clouds and haze severely reducing the surface visibility by
over 70-80%. These clouds and possible surface frost led to a
scene substantially brighter than anticipated, and thus much of
the image data was saturated bright.
Aggressive application of image processing techniques enhanced
faint brightness variations, rendering a small number of surface
features visible. These features were used to attempt to
determine the success of the targeting. It is believed that the
Viking-era landing location may be with the extreme south-west
portion of the image and the western-most of three new estimated
positions, more recently determined, may be in the lower
south-eastern portion of the image. The location of Viking Lander
2 is the least well known of the sites being imaged. So, we'll
count this attempt as a hit, however, because the image is mostly
clouds, we won't release it at this time.

Mars Pathfinder, the Sagan Memorial Station, and the Sojourner
rover are located in Ares Vallis. On April 4th, at 0916 UTC, the
spacecraft was successful in targeting the point that it was
directed to, however, a controversy has arisen as to the true
coordinates of the real landing site. It appears that, after some
reevaluation of the targeting information used with the Mars
Pathfinder project, we have used the wrong coordinate references
for our target point. Better information will be used in the next
opportunity. Because it appears that Mars Pathfinder is not in
the image, we won't release the image at this time.

The feature known as the "Face on Mars" in the Cydonia region was
imaged quite successfully on April 5th and its image was released
in raw form and in an enhanced form on April 6th. The picture was
acquired 375 seconds after the spacecraft's 220th closest
approach to Mars. At that time, the "Face", located at
approximately 40.8 degrees N, 9.6 degrees W, was 275 miles (444
km) from the spacecraft. The "morning" sun (about 10 AM local
solar time) was 25 degrees above the horizon. The picture has a
resolution of 14.1 feet (4.3 meters) per pixel, making it ten
times higher resolution than the best previous image of the
feature, which was taken by the Viking Orbiter 1 in 1976. The
full image covers an area 2.7 miles (4.4 km) wide and 25.7 miles
(41.5 km) long.

Since winter clouds cover much of the northern hemisphere of Mars
above 40 degrees N latitude at this time of the Martian year, the
raw image of the "Face" was of very low contrast, that is,
variations in brightness of the picture elements cover a very
small range compared to the ultimate capability of the camera.
Thus, the "raw" image appears very dark and flat. This very
washed out appearance of the northern hemisphere of Mars can be
readily seen in the wide angle image taken at the same time as
the narrow angle picture that contains the "Face" (see
http://mars/mgs/msss/camera/images/4_6_face_release/index.html).
The enhanced version of the raw data has made the feature
visible. The enhanced version also flipped the image left to
right to make it appear in the same orientation as the familiar
Viking image.

The targeting was very good for this attempt and is clearly a
hit. The "Face" was nearly exactly in the center of the image. A
portion of another feature in the area, the "D&M Pyramid", is the
bottom left-hand corner of the image.

The Mars Surveyor Operations Project assesses the results of the
first cluster of targeted imaging to have been quite successful.
The results have provided information useful in fine tuning the
processes for the second cluster of images that will be taken
starting on April 12th.






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                      Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

From: Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith]
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:34:40 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:29:08 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"


The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments.

>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"
>Date: Mon, 06 Apr 98 09:56:34 PDT

>I fear the good Duke has demonstrated exactly my point: the abuse
>of the word "belief" in UFO polemic.

Thanks a lot, but I fail to see the verbal abuse here. There is,
for example, neither indisputable proof nor even any persuasive
indication that "Roswell" involved any alien craft. To argue that
it did from the available, *reliable* evidence seems to me to be
a product of "belief". If I said "prejudice" or "biased opinion"
would that make the point clearer? Whichever term you choose, it
amounts to holding an opinion whose weight the evidence by itself
will not support.

Some reactions to the new images of the Great Martian Mugshot are
tropical cases of the same tendency. Religious belief is another.
I am not against religious belief, by the way, although I admit
to being wary of those who refuse to recognize the leap of faith
their beliefs require. And militant atheism strikes me as no less
a matter of faith or belief than what (say) John Wesley or
Ayatolla Khomeini preached. Which is where we came in. As I
originally wrote: "So much of "ufology" is entangled with
'belief' - from extreme debunker to extreme true believer - that,
I submit, it's impossible to draw a line between what is secular
and what is not in this field." I should have thought that the
implication that "belief" (or faith) is not limited to matters of
religion was not too difficult to grasp (and within nanoseconds).

>He rejects the abduction
>phenomenon as evidence of an external intelligence;

My consistently-stated point of view is actually that EVEN IF the
abduction phenomenon WERE the product of an "external
intelligence" then the evidence so far offered doesn't support
the contention. As was wisely observed to the Arkansas Traveler,
"If I was going to go there, I wouldn't start from here."

That judgement is reached through some familiarity with the
proffered "evidence"" & the arguments over it, some capacity for
logical thought, and some acquaintance with sundry other matters
that bear on the issues, some of which do not appear in the
pro-alien literature. (This is not the occasion to ask why not.)

>therefore
>anybody who feels otherwise is merely deluded by "belief,"

And what, pray, is the word "therefore" doing in this sentence? To
caricature my view of those who think differently from me as
"merely deluded" insults the intelligence of some, at least, of
those with whom I disagree, or whom I believe to be mistaken. In
particular, and most irksomely, it suggests against all evidence
that I hold in contempt those who have had abduction experiences.
That suggestion *is* "intellectually illegitimate [and] beyond the
rational pale".

>here
>defined, evidently, as any point of view the Duke doesn't like.

And that insults my intelligence. What is there to like or dislike
in stories that have gnashed onto some debris lying in a desert, or
someone's deeply-felt conviction that they have been violated by
"aliens"? ("Evidently" is another word of mysterious provenance and
questionable pretext.)

One judges to the best of one's wherewithal. Expressing a judgement
implicitly invites criticism of its bases and processes. To that
extent, and assuming some capacity for flexibility & honesty in the
judging mind, one has a duty to make one's wherewithal as
formidable as one can, and to recognize that any conclusion is
inevitably provisional. That done, it is hardly unreasonable to
wish that one's critics might exercise a similar discipline of
mind, language and, even, courtesy. Traducing disinterested thought
and trivializing it into a matter of likes & dislikes is not
criticism but puerile dismissal. It has the whiff of vacant
resources. Especially as there is no evidence to justify the
conclusion.

I might just as well suggest that everything Jerome has written
merely reflects and projects his own likes & dislikes. That would
go down a bundle, what?

<snip>

>The abduction phenomenon, for example, remains
>puzzling and extraordinarily complex, resistant to simplistic
>explanation of any sort, with reasonable people coming down on
>different sides

I couldn't agree more - although I could hope for more in
particular cases. I merely ask Jerome to recognize that there are
also extremely unreasonable people involved - not to say clamoring,
and some of them are barking - in these debates, and that he does
not ignore their irrationalities: or they will dictate the tone and
the content of the debate ever more powerfully. (And the general
level of debate is whacky enough already.) I am repeating here a
point others have made to Jerome before, but that he seems
reluctant to accept: that "ufology" is not reducible to or defined
by the mature considerations & desiderations of reasonable people.
Still less is there any great likelihood that their "level" will be
"the only one that counts in the end" as long as CUFOS or JSE or
(name your choice) regard themselves as mugwumps above all that -
or far enough below the sand to escape it. Shall I quote Lionel
Trilling again?

That is why reasonable people should address & analyse & if need be
do great battle with religiose tendencies and even secular but
irrational "beliefs" in this field. That is where I came in on this
thread, & also where I will lay off, for fear of boring even myself
with repetition.

best wishes
Paregoric D. Mossbunker
Kipper's Dream






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                 Mars Surveyor: Plans For Second Cluster Of

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 03:03:33 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:04:15 -0400
Subject: Mars Surveyor: Plans For Second Cluster Of

Go to

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/target/update4-10.html

*******


PLANS FOR SECOND CLUSTER OF TARGETED IMAGING

10-APR-98 5:00 PM PDT


The Mars Surveyor Operations Project is proceeding with the
implementation of its second cluster of targeted imaging at Mars. This
cluster will target the two Viking Lander sites, an refined Mars
Pathfinder landing site, and, because of the previous successful
imaging of the "Face on Mars", a different area of the Cydonia region
will be targeted.

On Sunday, April 12th, at 8:22 AM PDT and at 8:01 PM PDT, MGS will
again attempt to image the sites of the Viking Landers on two
consecutive orbits.

On Monday, April 13th, at 7:40 AM PDT, MGS will again attempt to image
the site of the Mars Pathfinder landing. The coordinates of the site
have been refined since the first imaging attempt.

On Tuesday morning, April 14th, at 6:56 AM PDT, MGS will again image a
portion of the Cydonia region. Because the image of the "Face" was
successful in the last attempt, the target area will be shifted
slightly to the southwest of the "Face" to capture an image of the
features known as "The City". This area contains features identified as
"mounds", "city square", "pyramid" and the "fortress". The "city
square" will be the target point.

The same probabilities of success of 30% to 50% will apply to these
attempts based on navigation uncertainties and spacecraft performance.
Experience with the first cluster of targeted images has shown that
winter weather in the northern hemisphere of Mars at this time causes
hazy, surface frost and heavy cloud cover to be significant factors in
the success of seeing the targets clearly. The weather effects are not
included in the probability of success estimates.

Results of the Cydonia imaging will be posted on the Internet, in the
same manner as in the first observation attempt, at approximately
mid-evening Pacific Time on Tuesday, April 14th. If the landers are
within the resulting images and can be identified, the image(s)
containing it (them) will be released.






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   Apr > Apr 11

                  Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic

From: Karel Bagchus <karel@atmm.nl>
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:33:48 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:08:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic


>Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:06:13 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic

>>Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:50:40 GMT
>>From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re:  UFO UpDate: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic

>>>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
>>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>>Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:42:40 +0200
>>>Subject: Fwd: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic

>>>Two thirds of the data is missing!! Using a histogram, both
>>>Richard Hoagland and Keith Rowland have determined that two
>>>thirds of the data on the RAW image of Cydonia is missing!

<snipped for brevery>

>>How can there be data missing when the resolution is 10x better
>>than Vikings images?

>Anyone who works in digital imaging knows that 256 shades of
>gray just represents the maximum number of shades available.

<snipped for brevery>

Hi Bob, Roger,

Bob is right on this. You can check for yourselve by taking any
full color image in a simple program like paint shop pro, select
colors menu -> adjust -> hue/saturation, set the saturation to
-100 to convert to B&W, then select colors menu -> count colors.
the result is never higher then 256.

Hoagland has lost contact with reality. But then, I already knew
that when he started propagating this "reverse speech" threory.

However, i still think that the "evidence" either way is
inconclusive. What the pictures show is a heavely eroded rock,
nothing more, but nothing less.
We can't say mutch about the supposed structures in the supposed
face becouse of the very low angle of view that distorts any
features if present, and the poor lighting/visability conditions.


The same image "enhancements" that where used for 20 years to
prove that the face is real are now being used to disprove the
theory. IMHO you can enhance a picture as long as you want until
you see either a natural rock or an artificial face.

Ofcourse "it" (no side taken) looks like an eroded hill. Gjees
folks...
what did we expect to see ? A shiny gold-plated sphynx with an
inscription "killroy was here" ?

Once again we're being very unscientific. Ask any archeologist.

Karel.



------------------------====### ATMM ###====---------------------


Karel Bagchus                       karel@atmm.nl

Audax-Tros MultiMedia               tel    (+31) 035 - 625 45 45
Ceintuurbaan 2                      fax    (+31) 035 - 625 45 55
1217 HN Hilversum                   http://www.atmm.nl
the Netherlands                     palace://havendam.com

------------------------====############====---------------------






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   Apr > Apr 11

                       Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:14:03 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:05:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

:
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism
>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:13:53 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


>Jim Deardorff asked for examples of synclines and antisynclines
>and other features similar to the Face. Gemini photo S-65-45722
>(NW of Kerman, SCentral Iran) is filled with such features.
>Others appear in S-65-45617 (SE Iraq)

Mark,

Are these two Gemini S photos on the web anywhere, do you know?
I started searching, but no luck.  Do I need to write to some
NASA address and wait a few weeks?

I did check out the web page with that nice photo of am inelberg
on it.

Regards,

    Jim








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                   Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic

From: Kerry Ferrand <kferrand@rocketmail.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 06:13:59 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 15:39:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic


> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:48:43 -0400
> From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com> [Gary Alevy]
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic

<snip>

> You have not addressed the question as to why the image has low
> contrast.  By definition the histogram analysis shows that, what's
> your explanation for why that is the case?

> Gary

to quote http://marsweb.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/target/update4-9.html:

"Since winter clouds cover much of the northern hemisphere
of Mars above 40=B0 N latitude at this time of the Martian
year, the raw image of the "Face" was of very low contrast,
that is, variations in brightness of the picture elements
cover a very small range compared to the ultimate capability
of the camera. Thus, the "raw" image appears very dark and
flat".


K









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   Apr > Apr 11

                 UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:37:44 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 15:35:56 -0400
Subject: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs


>Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 12:00:15 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

REGARDING THE MEXICO CITY AUG 6 1997 VIDEO:

<SNIP>

>My initial reaction was the same as Bruce's first impression, in
>that it was an obvious fake.  On the other hand, careful analysis
>is making that a difficult position to maintain.  Bruce will be
>speaking at the Mid-Atlantic UFO Symposium next month in
>Bethesda, Maryland and I would assume that the Mexico City Video
>will be his topic.

>Steve

>PS-  David Jacobs and Col. Halt are also scheduled speakers at
t>he May event, and if anyone wants detail let me know.

Yes, indeed I will discss the video.   Also, Col Halt of
Bentwaters- Rendlesham (England) fame fame will likely NOT be
there (keeping silent while he completes his book). HOwever
Robert Swiatek (FUFOR), Robert Hall (sociologist), Peter Resta
(psychologist), Charles Emmons (author of "At the Edge"), Dave
Jacobs and Linda Howe will be there!

So.... BE THERE OR BE SQUARE!!!!

(May 9.  Interested?  Email brumac@compuserve.com
 for more info)






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               Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:37:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 15:38:19 -0400
Subject: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs


>Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 08:01:31 -0700 (PDT)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

<snip>

>>(You recall last summer's "dummy drop" theory of the Roswell
>>bodies.) The suggestion is made that the smog somehow made the
>>"hologram" visible.   Had there been a dense cloud and had it
>>been night time then it woul have been possible to project some
>>light image on the  cloud and creat the impression of some
>>lighted object. You cannot  project "darkness".... yet the UFO
>>image is darker than the sky  background.Thus you would have to
>>assume that the "hologram"  sucked light out of the atmosphere
>>within a volume that defines the size of the UFO.The "dark side"
>>may be powerful.... but not that  powerful.
>>Bottom line:  not a hologram or any trick of light projection.

>Thanks very much, Bruce, for pointing out these things. It is too
>bad that UPN didn't have anyone like you on their program to
>bring in some common sense.

>In this case, then, it would have been necessary for the
>laser-beam projectionists to have a large mirror positioned up in
>the sky directing the image to the video camera on the roof top,
>and other such mirrors directing it to each of the witnesses?>

Yeah, well.... ":something like that.."

If a laser beam that had passed through a hologram had been
pointed at the camera.... yeah... marginally (given enough light
to see the image against the bright sky....

BBB...UUU...TTT....

Again I say, projections of laser beams and use of mirrors would
make an image that could be no darker than the sky.... since youj
can't bram "darkness"  (at least we don't know how).

Hence I don't really care how you imagine a combination of laser
beams and holograms....

IT CAN'T BE DONE TO CREATE AN IMAGE SUCH AS WE HAVE IN THE MEXICO
CITY VIDEO.

Electronic forgery seems the only reasonable manner....
and even that is being stressed to the breaking point.....






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   Apr > Apr 11

                            Alfred's Odd Ode #238

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:19:19 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 15:40:37 -0400
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #238

Apology to MW #238 (For April 11, 1998)

"End time deceptions" is what I've been reading, and I'm always
afraid of the tone -- the ones give it credence =85 the ones with a
smirk, and an axe they summarily hone. I'm leery of those proud
of faith that's untested; those plainly damned by Comenius. He
painted as worthless our untested faith; he said useless, inutile
and valueless. I think it Voltaire who had put it the best, and
allowed that there'd always be "scuts"; until such a time as the
last King in line -- choked the last Priest with the King's
steaming guts!

In my position I have intuition regarding a child thought bad.
Believe it? It's true! You predicted, construed  -- prophesy
fulfilled (it's contrived but you're _glad_)! It's self
fulfilling prophesy you _worked_ to congruence, as the child, is
a child -- is a child. It was the fruit of his mistreatment that
insured his cruel abasement; it was _you_ that turned him sullen,
mad, and wild. It was _you_, oh so inured, and in the throws of
your *conviction*. It was _you_ that had, too quick, made up your
mind. It was you that made dictation on the way that he went
down.
It was _you_ that made him lost; it was _you_ that made him
blind.

Your *book's* a mere shadow of what has been told. All the words
of it worms on a log. Your tale has been told many times in the
past -- Osiris, and Hercules, reflecting Christ's tale? Then
Christ comes along in a scurrilous fog!

Faith's an inadequate drum one can beat when the slings of
reality wound.
Don't count on your brother, or accuse your abuser, or work to
improve the conditions construed. No, count on your *faith* to
sustain you in ignorance; count on your *faith* for your bland,
trite insouciance. Count on a *faith* that is good for the _few_;
count on a *faith* that diminishes _you_.

"A lie in the fog," I've heard it described -- conveniently,
columns of pain. It loves the supplication of the darling human
Able, but hates and disrespects dissatisfactions found in Cain! I
bet that's topsy-turvy and it's not the way we're taught! I bet
we have it backwards, and I'm betting we've been mocked! Maybe
Able smirked and sneered, and Cain's was just a frame up. The
harder job, I think, was Cain's, and he rates a better write up!

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

Now before you start getting out the hammers and the nails, lighting your
torches, and knocking the cow dung from your pitchforks (some of you) --
read about Enlil, and Enki and tell me what conclusions _you_ come to.
Read the story that's at the _roots_ of your story. Read what went
before. Read how your story was told *first*! Read how it's all mixed up
with visitations of physical beings from other worlds, realities, or
dominions -- and UFO's <g>.

Here in Alabama we received in the mail a theatre production of the life
of Christ. A conservative estimate at $5.00 a tape (not counting using
FEDERAL postal vehicles with NO POSTAGE paid -- the tape was free of ANY
franking) means that 10 MILLION dollars was invested in a superficial,
nebulous, and instantly expended and lost -- momentary prevarication of
self-gratifying "feel good". I can only think of ten million dollars
invested at a conservative rate of 5% that would make 500 hundred
thousand dollars a year available for an Alabama education system that
bounces off the bottom of the national education scale.

Plato wondered that perhaps the unexamined life was not worth living.
John Amos Comenious was abundantly clear that untested faith is not only
valueless, it is harmful. And me? I read _those_ guys <g>, while you =85
You just scare the hell out'a me. Keep grinding your axe, but also expect
me to keep challenging you to prove how sharp it's _really_ getting, and
where you expect to _employ_ that dull blade. Put down your pitchforks,
and open different books. Give, and get respect.


--
Explore the Alien View?

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake.







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   Apr > Apr 11

                  Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:53:22 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 21:53:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic

>Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:00:20 -0700
>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic


>Dear Mr. Prokic, Stig and list

>I thought about it, but still don't quite understand.    Are
>there some175-odd shades of grey "missing"?  Or is this just a
>simple result of light conditions etc. when the image was taken.

>Are there important differences between the "face" shots and
>others which came in much clearer?  Were light conditions,
>distances, Mars weather etc.  somehow selective or deselective in
>the Cydonia region?

>As for Hoagland, I heard the interview. I agree it was a rather
>sad face-saving episode.   I was reminded of "radio-buttons" ..
>you push down one piece of nonsense, and up pops another .. a
>whirling dervish of  ideas that few can keep track of. Even the
>extremely tolerant [ and seemingly credulous ] Art Bell was
>getting lost, and audibly irritated.

>So far, I see nothing to suggest anything artificial on Mars.

>-  Larry Hatch


Larry,

It is easy to understand why people who are not involved in
digital imaging find all of this confusing.  I spend a lot of
time every month trying to make this stuff comprehensible to a
non-technical audience, and it is difficult.

256 shades of gray is the standard dynamic range chosen for most
high-end digital cameras.  This range produces a camera capable
of producing images which look natural to the human eye when
taken under a wide variety of lighting conditions.  But just
because the camera CAN record 256 shades of gray, that does not
mean that it will on the vast majority of images taken with it.

How many shades of gray it will actually record depends on the
contrast (number of shades of gray available) in the subject.  If
you have something which is pure black and pure white, that's
only two shades of gray.  Both very high contrast subjects and
very low contrast subjects have a limited gray scale, and will
record images with fewer than 256 shades of gray.

To imply that this is missing data or some sort of flim-flammery
on NASA's part is just about the most ridiculous thing that I
have seen anywhere!!!

Those other shades of gray just weren't there in the subject, so
there is no way ANY camera could have recorded them.

I think in the spirit of charity that all of us here on this list
should donate a shade or two of gray to poor Mr. Hoagland.
Perhaps he can then plug them into his image and go off happily
into his looking glass.

Bob








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                   Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:38:51 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 21:52:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic

>Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:48:43 -0400
>From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com> [Gary Alevy]
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic

>Mark,

>You have not addressed the question as to why the image has low
>contrast.  By definition the histogram analysis shows that, what's
>your explanation for why that is the case?

>Gary


Gary,

The image has low contrast because the SUBJECT had low contrast.

Flat lighting and some clouds, ergo low subject contrast.

A low subject contrast produces low image contrast.

Simple enough for you?

Bob








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   Apr > Apr 11

                      Re: Water found on Saturn's Moon

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 07:00:45 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 21:56:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Water found on Saturn's Moon

> [to] Kal and everybody else,

> I think it's time for me to take a break from all these Cydonia
> arguments. Last night, I had a dream (At least I think it was a
> dream) that a UFO was traveling across my ceiling over my bed. I
> woke up screaming and scared the S**t out of my wife. Then in the
> morning, I woke up with a bloody nose. I get those a lot after
> being sick. I had been sick for two weeks. I don't think I had an
> implant put in but you never know... Why do I all of a sudden
> have an urge to make my mash potatoes in the shape of Devil's
> Tower?

> The other dream consisted of Kal Korff chasing me around
> some house with a knife trying to kill me because of my
> "mean" email to him. He didn't get me!!! I had read Kal's
> response to me before going to bed so it was on my mind.
> I need a break!!! Nobody should have to dream about Kal
> Korff! No offense Kal. We all need to lighten up!

> Oh yeah, I think Kal lightened up in the dream and wanted
> to play some music. We somehow wound up in a music
> warehouse with instruments. The owner of the warehouse
> wouldn't let me play the drums so we had to take a raincheck.
> I think Kal was ready to play the guitar. Is this sick or what.
> Good Bye!!!

> Joe in Tampa

Dear Joe:

This is kalled KKKitis.

The same thing happened with Hubert Horatio Humphrey.

The three initials being identical, the self (Hubert for example)
gets confused with the overlying Klass (class, excuse me!) i.e.
the  Humphrey family;  until the casual passer-by is lost in such
a mess of self-referential and cyclical loops that one wants to
vomit. Voila' its Nixon time!

I recommend small doses of dark Oregon beer, perhaps 2 or 3
ounces, taken at regular intervals, say 2 or 3 minutes apart. A
shot or 2 of scotch helps if you feel bloated.

If the condition persists, you might try some science classes at
your local community college!
These are amazingly
inexpensive.

There is no better deal in education on this planet.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch


p.s.  One Richard Hoagland book for sale.   Make an offer.









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   Apr > Apr 12

                           Yorkshire, UK UFO crash

From: David Clarke <dclarke14@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:48:45 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 07:40:08 -0400
Subject: Yorkshire, UK UFO crash

Reply to Peter Kazlouski... re Sheffield UFO Crash

Your statement "Anyone claiming to be a ufologist MUST provide
fact and detail, not just blind allegations having no slightest
substantiation.  To fail to provide such truth just increases the
doubt,.."  exactly sums up this case.

The "ufologists" who are making the outrageous claims about this
case have not provided any facts at all, merely speculation.

My investigation has produced facts which are on record and can
be checked - for example, we know there was a low flying military
exercise. We can prove that. We can't prove there were aliens
flying around, as they don't keep log books as far as I am
aware.

As for proof of who was flying the aircraft - it's not my job to
discover who was responsible, that's for the authorities. What we
have proved is there WAS an aircraft, or aircrafts. That is
sufficient to solve this case.
As for the loony theories about a UFO shooting down an RAF
fighter - do they really believe a Tornado fighter could crash
into a reservoir just 15 miles from one of Britain's biggest
cities and all traces of that crash, including two bodies, be
removed right under the noses of 141 civilian mountain rescue
team searchers without anyone noticing?

Yes, I hear the ET paranoids in reply.

But how many of these people know anything about the geography of
this area - and how many have spoken to the mountain rescue, fire
and police officers involved?  I live just 5 miles from this
crash zone, know the area very well, and can assure you hundreds
of people would know about a crash if it had happened. No one
does, other than two ET believers.

There are no Tornados missing, there are no missing pilots.

The truth about this case is that the word "UFO" was never even
mentioned in connection with the incident until an ET believer
decided to take it upon himself to turn it into a UFO incident.

The police, newspapers and everyone else involved knew all along
that it was caused by a low flying aircraft, and that;s how the
story was dealt with by the Press and police right from the word
go.  Just who was flying that aircraft/aircrafts doesn't really
matter - what matters is that it was an aircraft, not a UFO,
whatever that might be.

I also fear you have misinterpreted what I said about the
videotape of the light aircraft taken in Sheffield that night. No
one, least of all the people who filmed tthe video footage, ever
claimed it showed a UFO. They came forward with the video after
hearing radio reports about the search for a crashed aircraft,
and thought the airplane they had captured on camcorder that same
night might be the one involved.

 The point I was making was that when I viewed the video
alongside detectives at Sheffield police station the "Aircraft"
comes into view and APPEARS to look like a triangular formation
of lights. It is not until the aircraft approaches the camera and
banks that the "triangle" resolves itself into a light aircraft,
with lights on its nose and wings, and the clear drone of an
engine can be heard.

My point here is that if a light aircraft can appear to look like
a triangle, and we know that people claim to have seen a UFO
looking like a triangle that very same night, then it is surely
logical to conclude these people saw an aircraft too, not a
triangular shaped UFO. Anything else and we are in bonkers
territory.

Unlike you, I do not except the ETH as fact. Where are the facts?
 The videos taken in Mexico do not prove anything other than
misperception of natural phenomena, as the feature article in the
latest Fortean Times has demonstrated.

The Sheffield "crash" is just another prime example of
misperception - it shows it is the UFOlogists who create the
UFOs!






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   Apr > Apr 12

                      Re: Water Found on Saturn's Moon

From: Kal K. Korff <Totlresrch@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:39:41 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 08:03:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Water Found on Saturn's Moon

Dear Joe:

<big snip>

>Well Kal, you mislead people. As I said, the data isn't complete
>yet so no conclusions can be made. I wrote to Mark Carlotto and
>asked him if he was prepared to make the statement that The Face
>is natural. Here's my email to him with his response.>>

The information about Mark Carlotto came to me from MSN. Either
Mark has CHANGED his story, or someone at MSN is not playing
straight with the facts. I doubt this, since this person is a
good friend of Mark's, and is a JOURNALIST who INTERVIEWED HIM.
As you may know, I was on MSN recently as a guest as well, so
when we were discussing the face on Mars, this information was
communicated to me and I conveyed it ACCURATELY.

Just LOOK at the image, Joe!! Does it look like a face? NO!!

Carlotto was also, according to the MSN journalist, very careful
about his remarks on the "face" as well...he said that the
original conclusion was based on a certain set of ASSUMPTIONS.

Assumptions, Joe, NOT facts -- that's the key word here.

I was not literally serious about the face and the bet. I would
hate to take someone's money so easily. :-) However, the FACT
remains that there is NO CREDIBLE EVIDENCE THAT IS BEYOND DISPUTE
OR DEFINITIVE that there EVER WAS or IS a "face on Mars."

However, due to people like Hoagland (who is far more than just
an innocent "passionate" person, and I think YOU know better, so
quit softpedaling him -- Billy Meier is "passionate" as well, but
he is a cult leader and fraud) there is a "farce on Mars."

I think Hoagland should REFUND everyone's money for taking them
all along on his Martian rorschach obsession.

While I would sincerely like there to be "pyramids" or real
"faces" on Mars whose origin was artificial, once again I am
predicting that the so-called "Hoagland evidence" (I hate to use
the word evidence and Hoagland in the same sentence) will fall
apart like the flimsy house of cards it was originally built on.

Now, if you don't mind, sir, I plan to return to my efforts of
creating the largest government UFO-related documents/web-based
database for UFO researchers to use -- even by those who still
believe Billy Meier or the non- existent "face" on Mars.

Let Carlotto take his time...fine, but I "psychically" predict it
WON'T make ANY difference. The "face" is not there...and the
TRUTH is, there was never an absolutely certain reason for ever
believing that it was EVER there in the first place, and once
again the UFO field has yet another self-inflicted black eye on
its' collective face.

Congratulations, Joe!!

Hope your "nightmares" about me come to an end -- but remember,
sometimes the truth is NOT what we would like it to be.

And IF and when a face is ever found on Mars, despite the fact we
never made a bet, I WILL pay you (or even Hoagland) $1,000.00 --
and I would HAPPILY ADMIT that I was wrong.

Kal (returning to my government document effort where REALITY
exists) Korff

Konfuscious saying #19.5: "No matter what the real evidence is,
some people will ALWAYS believe that there is a face on Mars and
the U.S. government is covering it up."






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                              The UpDates .Sig

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:45:18 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 08:16:52 -0400
Subject: The UpDates .Sig

To:  Errolk Bruce-Knapp
Fm: Larry Hatch
Re:  Traffic



Dear EBK:  ( if that is acceptible )

Lots of steam has vented with respect to the issues. I'm sure
that is all fine, and perhaps the obect of it all.

My not-so-humble offering is that the ghastly masthead
at the bottom of each post could simply be dropped.

Just tell your web-site parasite to leave it off.

The gig with the "UFO UPDATES .. " might have been
cute in BBS days, but now I'm afraid Richard Hoagland
might find something unwarranted.

Windows-95 and attachments eat up such insane amounts
of memory that even the Quebecois are starting to study
English. Please ..  Nichte ein-stopffen der "bandwidth"  mit
1977  cartoonen.

Otherwise,  I wish you the very best!

-  Larry Hatch.


[The committee will study the motion, as tabled, and will
 report back subsequent to the felling of several weed
 maples during the course of this day. Votes, comments
 welcomed -- ebk]





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                      Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"

From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 98 11:16:42 PDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 08:07:30 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"


> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:34:40 -0400
> From: Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith]
> Subject: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


> The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments.

> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> >From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs An "End-Times Deception"
> >Date: Mon, 06 Apr 98 09:56:34 PDT

> >I fear the good Duke has demonstrated exactly my point: the abuse
> >of the word "belief" in UFO polemic.

> Thanks a lot, but I fail to see the verbal abuse here. There is,
> for example, neither indisputable proof nor even any persuasive
> indication that "Roswell" involved any alien craft. To argue that
> it did from the available, *reliable* evidence seems to me to be
> a product of "belief". If I said "prejudice" or "biased opinion"
> would that make the point clearer? Whichever term you choose, it

> amounts to holding an opinion whose weight the evidence by itself
> will not support.

Reading the above and, more particularly, what follows, I get the
uncomfortable impression that the good Duke is having a bad day,
since the fury of his response to my rather mild remarks seems,
mmm, a tad out of proportion. Now it is even harder than formerly
 to resist the notion, as I stated in an earlier posting (which
everybody else, I'm sure, has forgotten by now), that the Duke
rejects the extraordinary claim that those who disagree with him
could have any other motive than blind "belief."

The evidence for the Roswell incident as crashed spacecraft is
hardly conclusive; neither, for that matter, are its alternative
explanations, to which intelligent Roswell-as-ET-event advocates
have mounted thoughtful rejoinders. (The problem, of course, is
that no real investigation was mounted before three decades had
passed; an event already shrouded in secrecy [a fact which, after
years of angry denial, even debunkers have had to concede to the
proponents], plus decades for people to die or memories to
falter, is going to be extraordinarily difficult to reconstruct
in a way that satisfies all reasonable observers.  Which is why
the debate effectively stalemated sometime ago.) Those who are
still following the controversy will want to turn to the exchange
in the current issue of the Journal of Scientific Exploration as
well as any number of pieces we have run in IUR over the years.

> "So much of "ufology" is entangled with
> 'belief' - from extreme debunker to extreme true believer - that,
> I submit, it's impossible to draw a line between what is secular
> and what is not in this field." I should have thought that the
> implication that "belief" (or faith) is not limited to matters of
> religion was not too difficult to grasp (and within nanoseconds).

The first two lines make a certain sense, since obviously anybody
can call himself or herself a ufologist if the spirit dictates.
It would be nice if we had a licensing procedure here, but we
don't.  If we are going to make any progress, however, it is the
best of us, and the best evidence, that must be at issue, at
least if the question is about the strength of the evidence
rather than about the education, mental health, character,
honesty, credulity, or bigotry of the persons shouting at each
other.

By the third line, sadly, the good Duke is spewing rubbish. If
the Duke really believes "It's impossible to draw a line between
what is secular and what is not in this field," then I feel
genuinely sorry for him.

Even the dimmest bulb in ufology knows the difference between,
say, Bill Weitzel's investigative report on the Portage County
police chase on one hand and channelings from Ashtar on the
other, or Brad Sparks on the RB-47 case as opposed to Lord
Clancarty on the Sky People, or Mike Swords on the ETH vs. George
Van Tassel on same. Or Project 1947 as opposed to the George
Adamski Foundation.  Or James McDonald vs. Gordon Creighton.  And
on and on. This is the sort of rhetorical inflation from which
even a Phil Klass would recoil, and it does absolutely nothing to
further the discussion.

> >He rejects the abduction
> >phenomenon as evidence of an external intelligence;

> My consistently-stated point of view is actually that EVEN IF the
> abduction phenomenon WERE the product of an "external
> intelligence" then the evidence so far offered doesn't support
> the contention. As was wisely observed to the Arkansas Traveler,
> "If I was going to go there, I wouldn't start from here."

No disagreement there.  I've said as much myself.

> That judgement is reached through some familiarity with the
> proffered "evidence"" & the arguments over it, some capacity for
> logical thought, and some acquaintance with sundry other matters
> that bear on the issues, some of which do not appear in the
> pro-alien literature. (This is not the occasion to ask why not.)

Speaking of what is not spoken of in the anti-abduction
literature, one ought to go back to the exchange here, a few
months ago, in which an anti-abduction theorist tried to tell
abductee John Velez what he had "really" experienced and happily
ignored everything John had to say that cast the theorist's
belief into serious question.
It reminds me of Ray Fowler's Allagash Abductions, which Fowler
investigated with characteristic thoroughness and which makes a
powerful case for a real event -- and then Peter Rogerson's
review of same in Magonia, apparently of a different book of the
identical title and an author who coincidentally bears the same
name.  As a young Paul Simon sagely observed three decades ago, a
man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.  From my
long observation of the abduction debate, that's as true of those
on the Duke's side as on the proponents'.

> >here
> >defined, evidently, as any point of view the Duke doesn't like.

> And that insults my intelligence. What is there to like or dislike
> in stories that have gnashed onto some debris lying in a desert, or
> someone's deeply-felt conviction that they have been violated by
> "aliens"? ("Evidently" is another word of mysterious provenance and
> questionable pretext.)

> One judges to the best of one's wherewithal. Expressing a judgement
> implicitly invites criticism of its bases and processes. To that
> extent, and assuming some capacity for flexibility & honesty in the
> judging mind, one has a duty to make one's wherewithal as
> formidable as one can, and to recognize that any conclusion is
> inevitably provisional. That done, it is hardly unreasonable to
> wish that one's critics might exercise a similar discipline of
> mind, language and, even, courtesy.

Duke, with all respect, the above seems odd coming from somebody
who's just leveled the incredible (and deeply offensive) charge
that it's "impossible" to tell the difference between secular and
religious responses to the UFO question. (Does this apply,
incidentally, to your own writings on same?) Talk about an insult
to the  intelligence of all of us -- and, were you not the man
leveling the charge, I would have included you in that number --
who have labored to bring intellectual discipline to our unruly
field.

Incidentally, I am writing a paper, for an anthology of scholarly
work on ufology to be published by the University of Kansas Press
(which apparently also knows the difference between religious
saucerianism and secular ufology), on ufology's formative years,
on how it came to see itself and to define its role.  A crucial
early essay, read by hardly anybody today that I know of, is
Isabel L. Davis' "Meet the Extraterrestrial," Fantastic Universe,
November 1957. Davis was among the early pioneers who fashioned a
secular response to the UFO phenomenon, and her wonderfully
written, witty piece explains why ufologists rejected the early
contactees; in doing so, she helps define what ufology is or at
least should be.  (Jan Aldrich once told me that Isabel Davis was
the most intelligent person he has ever met in this field.  Those
who read her article will get some idea of her formidable
insightfulness.)

I would like not to suspect the Duke's motives here.  I would
like to believe that his insistence that ufology be defined by
its worst has nothing to do with an aversion to its best, where
the real and immensely difficult problems and prospects lie,
along with evidence that has proven infuriatingly difficult to
refute over these past five decades.  No one has to lecture me
about ufology's failings or its crazier aspects, about which I've
probably written as much as any other human, living or dead.  And
that stuff is interesting, from any number of points of view,
which is why there's so much about the contactee movement in the
just-published 2nd edition of my UFO Encyclopedia.  None of it,
however, helps us understand the best-documented and most
puzzling UFO cases.  Which is so self-evident that, in being
forced to make the point, I embarrass myself.

Cheers,

Jerry Clark









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   Apr > Apr 12

                   Re: Neg Reversal of Mars Images by NASA

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 02:20:50 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 08:08:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Neg Reversal of Mars Images by NASA


>Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:25:49 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Neg Reversal of Mars Images by NASA?


>>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:02:34 +0200
>>Subject: Re: Neg Reversal of Mars Images by NASA?

>>Hi Bob and list members!

>>Just to put things straight. I didn't post Alexander
>>Krivenyshev's or McEoghan's theories about the "Mars Face" to
>>endorse them in any way, but to give an impression of the
>>discussion that is going on.

>>Of course the possibility, that NASA, as part of a conspiracy,
>>would commit the transparent fraud of posting a negative, is
>>nonexistent, but McEoghan's idea of turning the face 37 degrees
>>so that it is seen straight up and down, seems excellent to me.

>>Stig


>Rotating the image 37 degrees only makes sense if you think
>it IS a face.  Why should NASA, who obviously think it is a hill,
>do anything like that???

>For NASA/JPL to do this would imply support of the opinion that
>there is something there.  Obviously, there isn't.

>Bob


Neither McEoghan nor I ever said that NASA should.

Stig








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                   Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 21:40:38 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 08:36:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic


>Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 06:13:59 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Kerry Ferrand <kferrand@rocketmail.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:48:43 -0400
>> From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com> [Gary Alevy]
>> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic

>> You have not addressed the question as to why the image has low
>> contrast.  By definition the histogram analysis shows that, what's
>> your explanation for why that is the case?

>> Gary

>to quote http://marsweb.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/target/update4-9.html:

>"Since winter clouds cover much of the northern hemisphere
>of Mars above 40=B0 N latitude at this time of the Martian
>year, the raw image of the "Face" was of very low contrast,
>that is, variations in brightness of the picture elements
>cover a very small range compared to the ultimate capability
>of the camera. Thus, the "raw" image appears very dark and
>flat".

Kerry, Mark, Bob Shell and others,

Evidently the lack of good contrast is being attributed to a thin
cloud cover over the whole area. That is, if you have a high
white overcast, it illuminates the ground from all angles,
thereby largely filling in the shadows caused by the direct
sunlight.

But I'm very dubious of this being an explanation that applies
here.  We see no evidence of this thin cloud layer.  Although the
moisture content or water-vapor density of the upper Martian air
might be quite uniformly distributed, the vertical motions of the
air containing the moisture are usually not free from
non-uniformities, due to wind shear and turbulence, and these
cause the water vapor to condense (in ice form) first and most in
regions of strongest upward motion.  So also on Earth, even when
we have a fairly uniform sheet of cirro-stratus, one sees
superimposed cloud streaks here and there, unless the sheet is
thick enough for its overall whiteness to mask them.  The
postulated thin Martian cloud layer certainly wasn't thick enough
to show up, and so wouldn't have been thick enough to mask the
expected cloud streaks.  In fact, since the postulated cloud
layer is so transpararent as not to be visible at all, it could
scarcely have caused significant illumination relative to that of
the direct sunlight (differences between back-scattered and
forward-scattered intensities notwithstanding).

There are a couple of small, dark shadows in the image of the
"Face."  These also suggest to me that the thin cloud-layer
explanation won't suffice; otherwise those shadows wouldn't be
there.

There are some whiter blotchy regions around the right side (as
we view it) of the "face" and "chin."  I don't know if these are
clouds or not, but if they are, they don't explain the suspected
lack of contrast elsewhere.

It might instead by that lack of proper focus of the camera was
the prime culprit here.

An interesting sidelight: This image of the "Face" appears to
show a crater in its lower right portion (as we view it), since a
rim occurs around much of it and streaks of ejecta diverge away
from it.  (Please correct me if I'm wrong, experts!) This occurs
at the very same spot (as far as I can tell) at which the 2nd
Face photo of 1976 (70A13) at higher sun angle showed a circular
spot.  However, that circular spot was nothing but a grid marking
superimposed on the image!

Some brief remarks about the inselberg Mark Cashman referred me
to at: http://www.nkw.ac.uk/bgs/w3/photo/images/d2387.gif .

The half of the outline of the inselberg visible in the photo had
the proper overall shape as the "Face" pedestal, but the
larger-scale irregularities along its length looked to have a
width of up to 10% of its length, while for the "Pedestal" the
same figure seems like 2% or less.  A view from way above would
be necessary to check this better, and to determine the degree of
lateral asymmetry.  What the inselberg totally lacks is the
parallel-running little ridge with inboard trough that forms the
upper rim of the "Pedestal."  (Instead, the inselberg continues
rising into several giant peaks.)

Thus I'm interested in looking at any other earthly terrain
features that might be able to compete with the "Pedestal," which
I now call it, not knowing what the terrain contours upon it may
once have looked like, or may still resemble with better
imaging.

Jim Deardorff







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               Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

From: Theresa <Tcarlson1@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:58:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 08:32:16 -0400
Subject: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

>Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:40:35 -0700
>From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

Hi Terry,

>This is an excellent observation.  Only someone familiar with SFX
>would see this; but, now that you point it out, the contrast
>between the buildings and the sky make creating the matte a
>breeze.

Part of the problem may be that people tend to think of
the images as three dimensional.  And they are not.  There
is no such thing as a 3d image, all images are 2d.  An
image may represent a 3d object but the image itself is
two dimensional.

That's probably why the perspective views of the buildings
doesn't change on this video as the camera pans.  I made the
same mistake when I made the saucer fly through the
Minneapolis skyline. (Don't remember if I ever sent that
to you.)

Hey, that reminds me!  On my SOD video I explain some
of the basics of working with 2d rather than 3d, and I did a
zoom.  I did that one as steps though to emphasize it, rather
than smooth seamless zoom. The mechanics are the same.

Also in the movie "Who Framed Roger Rabbit", don't they
do a zoom in on Jessica playing patty cake with the bad
guys?   I thought of that one because it too is a combination
of real live film and animated effects.

>We never see the
>saucer leave the site.  Now, it is possible that it zipped away
>toward the horizon just opposite the camera; but, the odds of
>this are slim.  And before anyone says that the cameraman simply
>stopped filming at that point, ask yourself:

Actually, he doesn't stop filming.  UPN doesn't show the entire
video.  I got the preview copy of this in January, and it has more.
The "camera" continues to move over to the next building and then
starts to pan back.

And there is another clue here. The camera only pans left and
right. If the object went out of view, wouldn't it be natural to look
up higher in the sky for it?? The view never goes any higher in
the sky than what is seen in the initial long shot.  What happens
if you pan too far up on 2d image?  <G>

For this footage people are automatically assuming that
the buildings are 3d objects.  This is understandable, as
they know the buildings are there and real objects.

One thing I haven't been able to find, is the UFO's shadow.
Even in the smog, or haze or whatever, the balconies and
other part of the builings and foreground clutter have nice
crisp shadows all aligned in the proper direction.

That's kind of a shame because some of the higher end
softwares allow key framing of shadows as well.

  Regards,

     Theresa

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tcarlson1







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                   Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic

From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com> [Gary Alevy]
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 00:59:18 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 19:33:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic

> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:38:51 -0400
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic

> >Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:48:43 -0400
> >From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com> [Gary Alevy]
> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic

> >Mark,

> >You have not addressed the question as to why the image has low
> >contrast.  By definition the histogram analysis shows that, what's
> >your explanation for why that is the case?

> >Gary

> Gary,

> The image has low contrast because the SUBJECT had low contrast.
>
> Flat lighting and some clouds, ergo low subject contrast.
>
> A low subject contrast produces low image contrast.
>
> Simple enough for you?

> Bob

Bob,

Of course it is simple.
Moreover I already knew the answer from reading about the
photographic conditions described on Mike Malin's website.
Besides which I had read many of the technical papers on the MOC
imaging system when they were released.

I just didn't understand why you were putting oneliners on the
list when what would be helpful for some of the less technically
knowledgeable readers on the list to have a photographic expert
like yourself explaining the merits and faults in the claims and
counterclaims.

Gary






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                         Re: BWW Media Alert 980412

From: BufoCalvin <BufoCalvin@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 09:59:50 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 21:35:09 -0400
Subject: Re: BWW Media Alert 980412

Bufo Calvin
P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA  94596
Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Website: <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin">http://members.aol.com/bufo
calvin<;/a>
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this
edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that attribution is made
to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with
strangers before you e-mail them something.  If you forward this, please make
sure it is clear that you are forwarding it).

April 12, 1998

Busy weekend, so pretty much right into the listings.  One note, though: OMNI
Magazine has suspended their weekly on-line chats, unfortunately.  Mostly THE
DISCOVERY CHANNEL this week: it's a darling of people who promote educational
television, and probably the channel that carries the most paranormal
programming (with the possible exception of THE SCI-FI CHANNEL).  Btw, I
noticed that WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT? for April 15 (tax day in the U.S.) has an
episode entitled SPIRITS, ROBBERS, AND THE DEAD...coincidence?  Not that I'm
saying anything about the IRS, of course ;) .

Times are generally Pacific, unless stated otherwise.

TELEVISION

THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL
Sunday, April 12, 3:00 PM, UFOS: DOWN TO EARTH: UNCOVERING THE EVIDENCE (crash
and retrieval stories)
Sunday, April 12, 5:00 PM, INSIDE AREA 51
Monday, April 13, 5:00 PM, TRAVELERS (UFOs).
Monday, April 13, 10:00 PM, WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT?: GHOSTS, ALIENS, AND
EMPERORS
Tuesday, April 14, 2:00 AM, WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT?: GHOSTS, ALIENS, AND
EMPERORS
Tuesday, April 14, 10:00 PM, WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT?: SPIRITS, ROBBERS, AND THE
DEAD (includes ghosts)
Wednesday, April 15, 2:00 AM, WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT?: SPIRITS, ROBBERS, AND THE
DEAD (includes ghosts)
Wednesday, April 15, 10:00 PM, WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT?: CASTLES, TOMBS, AND
LEONARDO (includes a haunted house)
Thursday, April 16, 2:00 AM, WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT?: CASTLES, TOMBS, AND
LEONARDO (includes a haunted house)
Sunday, April 19, 3:00 PM, WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT?, WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT?:
GHOSTS, ALIENS, AND EMPERORS
Sunday, April 19, 5:00 PM, WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT?: CASTLES, TOMBS, AND LEONARDO
(includes a haunted house)

THE SCI-FI CHANNEL

Still running SIGHTINGS on Sunday at 7:00 or 7:30 PM, and pretty much every
weekday at 5:00 PM and 9:00 PM.

SYNDICATED

Friday, MONTEL WILLIAMS, psychic Sylvia Browne

____________________________

You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly
redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by
e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com.  You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to
Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert the same way. Also, please let me know if
there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, t
he week before.
_____________________________





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                         Strieber On Father Balducci

From: Stig Agermose <interstate@supernews.com>
Date: 12 Apr 1998 08:09:53 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 21:34:55 -0400
Subject: Strieber On Father Balducci

My server is down at the moment so I'm using another one. The
email below was received via "alt.ufo.reports" and Deja News.

Stig

*******

Subject: Whitley Strieber comments on Monsignor Corrado Balducci (fwd)
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: 1998/04/11
Message-ID:   <6goneo$72k@basement.replay.com>
Newsgroups:   alt.alien.visitors,alt.ufo.reports,alt.paranet.ufo,alt.conspiracy.
area51


Forwarded Message:

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:28:19 -0500
To: UFOLAWYER1@AOL.COM
From: Whitley Strieber <xtrl@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Monsignor Corrado Balducci

Dear Peter:

Msgr. Balducci is entirely real, and much of what he has been
saying about the visitors is accurately presented in Boylan's
statement. In addition, I understand that he has been doing a
good deal of television recently. I know the Monsignor through
Michael Hesseman and have talked to him personally about his
views. He has given me an interview that is going to be published
in my new book Confirmation, and in it he makes substantially the
same statements about the need to stop fooling ourselves that the
contact situation is psychological, and he makes the point that
it is dangerous for Christians to ignore the testimony of
millions if they are to accept the testimony of just a few as the
basis of doctrine. He also discusses his contention that the
visitors are not demons, and mentions that the subject matter is
of special interest to the Church and the Christian community.

Msgr. Balducci told me personally when I asked him about his
relationship to the pope that he knows the pope and is friendly
with him. When I asked him if the pope was aware of his views on
UFOs, he said that they had not discussed the matter per se, but
had talked together about issues of demonology.

Boylan is also accurate in describing Msgr. Balducci as an expert
on demonology. He has published on the subject and has been the
exorcist for the Archdiocese of Rome. It is because of his
expertise in this field that there is reason for Christians to
regard his views on the question of whether or not the visitors
are demons as an authoritative one.

In the interview I have, he did not mention anything about Papal
nuncios reporting information to the Vatican on a formal basis,
or the existence of a commission to deal with the issue.

He has personally read and agreed to every detail of the
translation, and it is completely accurate. It will be published
as an appendix to Confirmation, which should be in the stores by
April 15.

In the interest of accuracy, I would very much appreciate your
reposting of this letter to the same list that has received the
previous two posts.

Sincerely yours,

Whitley Strieber


Copyright %ASend.x
---
Free and Private email from Supernews(TM) <http://www.supernews.com>







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   Apr > Apr 13

                      Re: Water Found on Saturn's Moon

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 10:39:01 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 00:09:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Water Found on Saturn's Moon

>From: Kal K. Korff <Totlresrch@aol.com>
>Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:39:41 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Water Found on Saturn's Moon)

>Dear Joe:

><big snip>

>Just LOOK at the image, Joe!! Does it look like a face? NO!!

>Carlotto was also, according to the MSN journalist, very careful
>about his remarks on the "face" as well...he said that the
>original conclusion was based on a certain set of ASSUMPTIONS.

>Assumptions, Joe, NOT facts -- that's the key word here.

<snip>

>Kal (returning to my government document effort where REALITY
>exists) Korff

>Konfuscious saying #19.5: "No matter what the real evidence is,
>some people will ALWAYS believe that there is a face on Mars and
>the U.S. government is covering it up."


Once again I find myself in total agreement with Kal.

Does this mean I am doing something wrong????

Bob








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                         Re: Yorkshire, UK UFO crash

From: "Jon" <jon@wibble.powernet.co.uk> [Jonathan Dyton]
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 21:15:23 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 00:12:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Yorkshire, UK UFO crash


>Unlike you, I do not except the ETH as fact. Where are the facts?
>The videos taken in Mexico do not prove anything other than
>misperception of natural phenomena, as the feature article in the
>latest Fortean Times has demonstrated.


To cut a long opinion short, that Fortean times article was
pretty naff really. Lets face it, taking 4 or 5 cases that are
very easy to pull apart and ignoring other, more difficult to
solve cases is the oldest trick in the book. The trouble is that
its a trick that is repeated by both sides in this argument. The
article didn't (because of space restrictions I assume) go into
much depth ,nor did it tackle any of the well known cases. lets
face it, if your going to rip Mexico to shreds, then start with
that case, where 4 people have filmed the same thing, not a bunch
of obscure easily solved cases, who's importance has been pumped
up.

Apart from that I totally agree with you, and can someone get
Tony Dodd, to name the ship that he claims Disappeared in the
North sea or the friend of his who was raided by the Police as he
was on the phone to Dodd (The police know who he is why can't
we), or even the name of the vet who does his autopsies on these
mutilated animals. That would be a start.

Cheers Jon







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               Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

From: "Terry J. Blanton" <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 13:24:18 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 00:10:40 -0400
Subject: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

Theresa wrote:

> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:58:59 -0400
> From: Theresa <Tcarlson1@compuserve.com>
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

<snip>

> That's probably why the perspective views of the buildings
> doesn't change on this video as the camera pans.  I made the
> same mistake when I made the saucer fly through the
> Minneapolis skyline. (Don't remember if I ever sent that
> to you.)

Uh, T, there *is* one other explanation:  the camera is running
on a rail parallel to the movement of the UFO. <g,d,r>

> Hey, that reminds me!  On my SOD video I explain some
> of the basics of working with 2d rather than 3d, and I did a
> zoom.  I did that one as steps though to emphasize it, rather
> than smooth seamless zoom. The mechanics are the same.

Again, my compliments on "Shadows of Doubt".  Anyone who hasn't
seen it should visit the uforeports web page.

<snip>

> The camera only pans left and
> right. If the object went out of view, wouldn't it be natural to look
> up higher in the sky for it?? The view never goes any higher in
> the sky than what is seen in the initial long shot.  What happens
> if you pan too far up on 2d image?  <G>

Hey!  I know the answer to this one!  Keystone Kops!

[snip]

> One thing I haven't been able to find, is the UFO's shadow.
> Even in the smog, or haze or whatever, the balconies and
> other part of the builings and foreground clutter have nice
> crisp shadows all aligned in the proper direction.

Yeah, I looked for a shadow, too.  At least they seem to get the light
source in the right place.

> That's kind of a shame because some of the higher end
> softwares allow key framing of shadows as well.

Software and EFFORT.  All good points, T!

Terry







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   Apr > Apr 13

                   The Millennium Report - April 12, 1998

From: psa@direct.ca (Paul Anderson)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 13:50:03 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 00:15:17 -0400
Subject: The Millennium Report - April 12, 1998

The Millennium Report
April 12, 1998

The Millennium Report is the weekly on-line news service of The
Millennium Group, an independent future studies research
organization, which provides the latest current information on a
wide range of the most phenomenal, controversial and enigmatic
issues of our time, and their possible implications as we
approach the next Millennium; TMR is an alternative source of
information which is often ignored or sensationalized by the
mainstream and tabloid media.

Editor:
Paul Anderson
psa@direct.ca

______________________________


SPECIAL BULLETIN
New "Face on Mars" Photos Fail to Settle Controversy
Poor Quality of Images Raises More Questions
Second Enhanced Photo Not Publicized by Media
"City" to be Photographed on April 14

Plans for Second Cluster of Target Imaging

Other Unusual Objects in First New Cydonia Photos?

Alien Life "Will be Found by 2050"

Water Found on Saturn's Moon

Vast Water Vapor "Canopy" Found in Orion's Sword

______________________________


Complete report on the TMG web site:
http://mypage.direct.ca/p/psa/

Note: the TMG web site requires a frames-enabled browser,
and TMR is designed for a frames environment; please access
TMR through the main TMG web site for proper viewing.





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                Giant Martian Fossil Strong Evidence Of Life

From: Stig Agermose <interstate@supernews.com>
Date: 13 Apr 1998 00:22:19 -0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 00:20:45 -0400
Subject: Giant Martian Fossil Strong Evidence Of Life

Hi


My server is down at the moment so I am using another one. The
fascinating item below is from the BBC's online news service.
URL:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_77000/77166.stm

Go to the site for images! The links are preceded by asterisks.


Stig


*******


Sci/Tech

                                                                            =

Life on Mars (again)

                                                                            =

(Image:) The fossil shape


Scientists are claiming that they have found new evidence of life
on Mars.

Researchers at Glasgow University say a huge rock formation on
the planet's surface is probably a giant fossil created billions
of year ago by microbes.


(Image:) Imitating Martian conditions in a Scottish laboratory


Recently, doubts have been expressed about earlier claims by some
scientists that signs of Martian life had been found in
meteorites that landed on Earth.

But the Glasgow team believes that photographs of the fossil on
the white rock - a 17km-wide feature in a giant crater - are the
strongest proof to date of life on the red planet.

Professor Mike Russell says he believes the formation was caused
by bacteria whose growth was fuelled by the sun and nutrients in
the water in a crater lake.

However, he believes that the life forms probably retreated below
ground billions of years ago when conditions became harder and
water disappeared from the surface.


(Image:) Mars: life may have gone underground"


There probably is still life on Mars, but not actually on the
surface.
Wherever there is water on a planet there is likely to have been
life. But Mars now has a dry desert surface so there probably is
not any life near the surface," he said.

Dr Russell also believes it possible that the formation on the
white rock could be similar to magnesium-rich deposits found on
Earth, which were created by micro bacteria feeding on magnesium,
carbon dioxide and iron and light.

The next NASA mission to Mars is due to blast off next year. It
is not scheduled to visit the white rock, but Dr Russell hopes a
future European space mission will investigate.

=A0

Relevant Stories


09 Apr 98=A0|=A0Sci/Tech
*Why do some still believe the 'face' is artificial?

19 Mar 98=A0|=A0Sci/Tech
*Nasa weighs up Mars stress factor

11 Mar 98=A0|=A0Sci/Tech
*Nasa kisses Pathfinder goodbye

05 Dec 97=A0|=A0Sci/Tech
*Mars probe yields refreshing results

04 Dec 97=A0|=A0Sci/Tech
*Mars life theory rejected



Internet Links


*Mars: the planet

*Life on Mars: The New Scientist

*NASA Mars Pathfinder site

*Glasgow UnivSend.x
---
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   UFO UpDates
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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 13

                      UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 15

From: Masinaigan <Masinaigan@aol.com> [Joseph Trainor]
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 23:05:01 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 00:18:26 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 15


     UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 3, Number 15
April 12, 1998
Editor: Joseph Trainor

PHOTO OF CYDONIA FACE
SPURS FIERCE DEBATE

     On Sunday, April 5, 1998, at 12:39 a.m. Pacific
time, the Mars Global Surveyor, beginning its 220th
orbit, aimed its camera at the surface and took a
new photograph of the mysterious "Face" on Mars.
     The "Face" is located at 40.8 degrees North
and 9.6 degrees West on Mars.  It was late morning
in Cydonia at the time, with the sun in the southeast.
     Controlled from the Malin Space Sciences System
(MSSS) facility in San Diego, California, the spacecraft's
Mars Orbiter Camera (MOC) shot a high resolution
photo of 14.1 feet (4.3 meters) per pixel.  This was
about ten times better resolution than the Viking photo
of September 1976.
     The new MOC photo encompasses an area
measuring 25.7 miles (41.5 kilometers) long and
2.7 miles (4.4 kilometers) wide.
     The photo was processed at the MSSS facility
following its arrival on Monday, April 6, at 9:15 a.m.
It was then downloaded to the Jet Propulsion Laboratory
in Pasadena, Cal.
     "The famous 'Face on Mars' thought by some to be
the work of an alien civilization, appears to be nothing
more than natural ridges and craters."
     The photo "shows the features to be simply
'erosional remnants' of rock shaped either by wind or
water, said Alden Albee, project scientist at the Jet
Propulsion Laboratory."  (See USA Today for April 7,
1998, page A-3, "NASA: Mars 'face" just a pile or rocks.")
     Release of the new Cydonia photo touched off a fierce
debate among scientists.
     "The formation in the image beamed back to Earth
from the Mars Global Surveyor and released Monday
looks like everything from a sandal print to a stuffed
chili pepper--everything, that is, but a face."
     "'It's a mesa, a butte, a knob,' said Michael Ravine,
advanced projects manager at Malin Space Sciences
Systems..."It's a natural formation.  I hope this has
scotched this thing for good."  (NASA news release for
April 8, 1997)
     But Richard C. Hoagland of the Enterprise Mission,
a space research group based in New Mexico, "said too
much data had been stripped from the picture in
enhancing it and the result was too poor in quality to
draw conclusions." (see USA Today, April 7, 1998)
     "It's like looking at a TV with a bunch of snow on
it," Hoagland said.
     Michael Carr, a geologist at the U.S. Geological
Survey in Menlo Park, Cal., said, "The area photographed
is in a transition zone between an old cratered area and
newer low-lying northerly plains.  Knobs of rock from the
old formation poke up in the plains, and this is one of them."
     The debate over the Face has raged on the Internet
all week, with no sign of letting up anytime soon.
(Editor's Comment:  I saw the new photo at the Malin
site, and I tend to agree with the geologist.  The Face
is clearly an uplift feature.  However, the extreme weathering
of the butte/mesa was clearly caused by water, not wind,
erosion.  Also, that type of weathering shows that the Face
mesa consists of sedimentary, not igneous, rock.  All of
which deepens the mystery of Mars.  What happened to
the oceans/seas/lakes in which the Cydonia sedimentary
formations were laid down millions of years ago?)

SPANISH UFOLOGIST CLAIMS
ALIEN CONTACT IN BOYHOOD

     According to an article in the Spanish language
magazine Enigmas, by author Iker Jimenez, the
famous Spanish ufologist Antonio Ribera claims to
have made contact with an alien back in 1930.
     According to Spanish ufologist Pedro P. Canto,
"Ribera, 78 years old," claimed that the incident
"happened in 1930 when (he was) in his room in
Barcelona."
     "There appeared a very potent green light" without
any visible source, Canto reported.  Ten-year-old
Antonio then saw "a short-statured being, corpulent
and quadruped."  The boy could not "distinguish arms,
thorax or legs...Ribera did not feel any fear but rather
amazement and curiosity."
     The alien reportedly told Ribera that space-
traveling species such as his had begun an era of
"quiet contact" with selected humans.
     In the article, Ribera, the author of 40 books on
UFOs in Spanish, is quoted as saying, "It was as if
someone had extended to me the knowledge--to speak
up for the people's right to know that this exists."
     Barcelona is the largest city in Spain's Catalonia
region, bordering the Mediterranean Sea, located about
425 kilometers (255 miles) east of Madrid.  (Muchas
gracias a Pedro P. Canto para esas noticias.)
(Editor's Note:  I consulted that "Prince of Saucerers,"
Charles Fort, and came up with two UFO-related
incidents for 1930.  Here they are:
     April 28, 1930 - During an eclipse of the sun, Dr.
H.M. Jeffries at Lick Obervatory spotted an
anomalous shadow "five miles broad" on the moon.
See the Los Angeles Evening Herald for April 28,
1930.
     December 25, 1930 - Tremendous "meteor"
seen and heard in southern Idaho.  "The crash,
heard for miles, was described as 'like an
earthquake.'"  See the Idaho Statesman of
Pocatello, Idaho for December 26, 1930.
     See also THE COMPLETE BOOKS OF
CHARLES FORT, Dover Press, 1974, pages
725 and 832.)

MYSTERY METEOR AWES
HUNDREDS IN HAWAII

     On Friday, March 27, 1998, at 2:40 a.m.
Honolulu time, a mysterious explosion of
bluish-white light, accompanied by a roaring
sound, lit up the night sky west of the
Hawaiian Islands.
     On Oahu, the explosion was seen by
dozens of people at Waimea, Waialua and
Kawailoa Beach.
     On Maui, police received reports from
witnesses in Lahaina, Honokowai, Puukolu
and Honokahua.
     On Hawaii, or the "Big Island," as locals
call it, the flash was seen by witnesses from
Upolu Point south to Kailua Kona.
     A pilot for Aloha Airlines "witnessed the
object while in the sky.  He was obviously very
excited and very moved by the experience.  He
said the object came within two miles of his
(cargo) plane and lit up the entire sky...He said
it created an increase in temperature that was
felt by everyone in the cabin."
     On the Big Island, Lana Kirkwood "was awake,
sitting in her living room, reading a book" at 2:40 a.m.
"when suddenly 'the whole sky lit up--a big flash of
white light that lasted about three seconds' and was
then followed 'by a big sound like a thunderbolt but
there was no storm.'"  The explosive roar lasted for
an estimated four to five seconds.
     Ms. Kirkwood "thought it was an earthquake or
a volcano about to explode."
     "Big Island police said the light, which was seen
in all districts of the island, made the night sky as
bright as day."
     The U.S. Coast Guard identified the object as
"a big meteor" and said it had "determined the source
of the light after an investigation."  (See the newspaper
West Hawaii Today for March 29, 1998.  Many thanks
to Joan Ocean for forwarding the news story.)

SILVER SPHERE UFO SEEN
IN NORTHERN LOUISIANA

     On Sunday, April 5, 1998, Ms. Kathy D. and
her stepdaughter were driving south on Highway 9
in Louisiana, from Junction City (population 749)
on the Arkansas state line to Homer, La.
(population 4,152) when they spotted something
unusual in the sky.
     "We noticed a strange reflection in the sky,"
Kathy reported.  "At first I thought this was the sun
reflecting off an aircraft.  But after looking at the object
I could tell it was no airplane.  It was a sphere, that I
at first believed was a weather balloon.  But when it
began to move randomly,  I knew that it was not a
weather balloon."
     "I pointed it out to my step-daughter, and we both
watched it disappear."
     "In a matter of ten to fifteen seconds, the object
reappeared ahead of us...It moved away from us,
turning toward the left and traveling at what seemed to
be great speed.  It then disappeared again, and we
didn't see it again...I have never witnessed anything
like this before."  (Many thanks to Tim Hagemeister
of NACOMM for this report.)

LARGE SAUCER SEEN AGAIN
IN LAGRANGE, GEORGIA

     On Tuesday, March 31, 1998, at 7:10 p.m., a
17-year-old boy was playing baseball with his friends
in LaGrange, Georgia (population 25,597) when he
witnessed the sudden flyby of a large saucer.
     According to investigator John Thompson of
MUFON, the witness "was facing northeast and saw
a large white disc-shaped UFO fly by very fast.  The
UFO climbed at a steep 70-degree angle and
disappeared behind a large cloud at blinding speed.
The egg- or plate-shaped UFO was about a mile
away and an apparent size (at that distance--J.T.)
of three inches.  It shot across the sky to the north
in a second or less.  The other boys did not see the
UFO."
     Thompson said he believes this saucer to be the
same UFO seen in July 1997 and by LaGrange High
School students camping out in September 1997.
     "I believe this giant UFO is regularly penetrating
airspace over the Troup/Heard (County) corridor in
western Georgia," Thompson said.  "Before darting
away, it creates a large flash, as it breaks into light
speed.  When loitering, it flies well below the 2,500-foot
radar ceiling so that the FAA in Atlanta and Columbus
can't 'track' it."
     LaGrange is 64 miles (106 kilometers) southwest
of Atlanta.  (See Filer's Files #14 for 1998.  Many thanks
to John Thompson and George A. Filer of MUFON for
this report.)

ANOTHER UFO SIGHTED IN
WESTERN KENTUCKY

     On Monday, April 6, 1998, investigator Clint Stone
of Kentucky MUFON spotted a UFO while skywatching
in Henderson (population 25,945), a small city on the
Ohio River about 144 miles (230 kilometers) west of
Louisville.
     "I observed an UFO that had a color of white light and
and a flashing red one," Clint reported, having scanned
the night sky from 8 p.m. to 8:30 p.m.  "It was coming
from the south with a light in the middle and two more
white ones on the right side.  It was heading northwest
(towards Indiana--J.T.) when it suddenly changed course
to due east.  It was almost as if it made a right-angle
(90 degree) turn to fly over my head."
     The UFO's lights made "erratic motions...chasing
each other like Christmas lights," he reported.  "The
colored lights were followed by a very fast bluish-white
light that only flashed every ten seconds.  The white/red
light soon sped out in front of the bluish-white light as
it headed off in the distance.  Soon after a total of three
lights were seen heading in the same direction.  All
had no sound."  (See Filer's Files #14 for 1998.  Many
thanks to Clint Stone and George A. Filer of MUFON
for this report.)
(Editor's Note:  Henderson, Kentucky is right across
the Ohio River from Evansville, Indiana, the center of
the big UFO flap two weeks ago.)

NEW UFO SIGHTING IN
NORTHERN VIRGINIA

     On Friday afternoon, April 3, 1998, salesman
James Rickert, 26, was having lunch with about a
dozen colleagues at a restaurant in downtown
Fairfax, Virginia (population 17,622) when they
suddenly spotted a UFO.
     Fairfax is ten miles (16 kilometers) southwest
of Washington, D.C., near the Capitol's Beltway.
     "I was eating outside on a porch at the restaurant
with 12 co-workers," Rickert reported.  "Three of us at
one table and many others eating at the restaurant saw
a green orb in the sky.  It moved along quickly and
steadily for about ten seconds, going across the sky,
then disappeared. Forty people outside also saw it.
A few dismissed it as a shooting star.  Those of us who
saw it longer know that it was not.  It glowed green and
was cigar-shaped."  (See Filer's Files #14 for 1998.
Many thanks to George A. Filer of MUFON for this
news story.)

UFOs MAKE NIGHT FLIGHTS
OVER SOUTH AUSTRALIA

     Two UFO sightings were reported near Adelaide,
South Australia (S.A.) last week.
     On Thursday, April 2, 1998, at 11 p.m., residents
of Mallala, S.A., located about 50 kilometers (30 miles)
north of Adelaide, "reported sighting a flashing light in
the northern sky.  The illumination flashed each time
for about 21 seconds, and it was about 70 degrees above
the horizon."
     On Saturday, April 4, 1998, at 4 a.m., witnesses near
Durrem, S.A. reported seeing "a large white illumination
'in a holding pattern' (hovering) above a paddock" located
"25 kilometers (15 miles) from the nearest township."
While the UFO hovered over the paddock, "small red
lights came out of the ground and rose up into the larger
illumination."  (Many thanks to Ross Dowe and the
Australia-New Zealand 24-Hour UFO Hotline for these
reports.)

DAYLIGHT DISC SPOTTED BY
STUDENTS IN MALAYSIA

     On Saturday, March 14, 1998, several students
at Taman Orkid, near Mingguan in the Southeast Asian
county of Malaysia "saw an object like a saucer."
     The boys, ranging in age from 11 to 14, said the
UFO "was at a distance of 100 meters (330 feet) and
about the size of two cars."
     Mohd Firdaus Rashid, age 12, said, "The saucer
seemed to have a light on its rear...The saucer beamed
its light at us a few times, and when all its lights flashed,
it flew away into the sky."
     Rashid and six companions were playing near the
mosque when they sighted the saucer hovering nearby.
     Mohd Nazrin Ozali, age 11, said "the color of the craft
was grey.  The saucer did not rotate, and we saw four
wings and a light beam onto a field."
     Ihsan Ibrahim, age 12, said they lost sight of the
UFO when it retreated behind a hill.  (See the newspaper
Alor Star of Kedah, Malaysia for March 15, 1998.  Many
thanks to Steve Wilson and Skywatch International for
this report.)

BLACK HELICOPTERS ACTIVE
ON BOTH SIDES OF THE
ATLANTIC OCEAN

     Black helicopters were sighted recently at two
UFO sites on either side of the Atlantic.
     On Tuesday, March 24, 1998, at 7:30 p.m., Peter
Gann was "approaching the last mini-roundabout on
Strathaven county road" in East Kilbride, Scotland
when he sighted one.  "The chopper was visibly black
and hovering over the fields and factories in the area.
It had the shape of a--don't laugh--Airwolf chopper on
TV and was either dark grey or black in colour."
     East Kilbride, located 30 miles (48 kilometers)
southeast of Glasgow, has been the center of a UFO
flap since December 1997.
     On January 25, 1998, a Greenhills man reported,
"My sighting is of a large black helicopter, and it was
only a hundred yards from my window.  I could see the
rotor blade quite clearly...It was big, it was black, and it
did have unusual lighting."  (Many thanks to Dave
Ledger for this report.)
     Here in the USA, two black helicopter sightings were
reported in mid-March near Salisbury, North Carolina
(population 23,087), a town on Highway 29 about
115 miles (184 kilometers) west of Raleigh.
     On Friday, March 13, 1998, witnesses on Bringle
Ferry Road spotted a black helicopter hovering over
the area where local resident Thomas Moon saw a
triangular UFO the night of January 30th.
     On Saturday, March 14, 1998, ufologists Stefan
Duncan and Jamie Maness spotted a black helicopter
flying over High Rock Lake, east of Salisbury.  Their
sighting took place at 11 p.m.  Duncan, who is the
editor of American UFO Newsletter (AUFON), was
on a routine skywatch at the time.  (See AUFON #4
for 1998,  Many thanks to Stefan Duncan for letting
UFO ROUNDUP quote from his report.)

from the UFO Files...

1976: ABDUCTION IN IRAN

     On April 5, 1976, Gholam Reza Barzagani, 19,
took a walk in the woods near his hometown of
Chalus, near the Caspian Sea in northern Iran.
     "According to Barzagani, while he was walking
along in the deep forest on Friday, he suddenly saw
a UFO emerge from the sky, fly straight towards
him and stop directly above him.  He said he was
unable to move as he watched four 'beings' come out
of the spaceship and take him inside it."
     "He claims that he spent some time under the
scrutiny of the 'beings' before passing out.  'The next
thing I remember is that I woke up back on Earth
early in the morning, not in the lush Caspian forests,
but surrounded by barren lands.'"
     Barzagani wandered all morning until he found a
dirt road and followed it into the town of Isfahan.  The
UFO had dropped him off in the desert a good
480 kilometers (300 miles) south of Chalus.
     Barzagani was examined by doctors at the Red
Lion and Sun Society Hospital in Isfahan.  They
pronounced him physically and psychologically fit.
The head physician said, "This young man firmly
believes that he has been aboard a flying saucer."
     SAVAK, then Iran's national police, investigated
the case and learned that "a number of people from
these villages" around Isfahan "reported seeing what
they described as a 'flying saucer.'"
     The Barzagani case was the first in a series of
UFO incidents that culminated in the pursuit of a
UFO by fighter jets of the Iranian Air Force in
September 1976.  (See the Tehran Journal for
April 7, 1976.  See also UNSOLVED UFO
SIGHTINGS, volume 3, number 3, Autumn 1995
issue, "UFOs and the Persian Gulf War" by
Timothy Green Beckley, page 41.)

FUN UFO WEBSITES:
     Cydonia is the word this week!  Check out the new
Face photo at the Malin Space Science Systems
website.  You'll find it at http://www.msss.com/
mars/global_surveyor/camera/images/4_6_face_
releases/index.html
     The Face can also be seen at this URL:
http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/target/CYD/index.html
     And at http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/
marsurv.html
     Mark Haywood's Cosmic Horizons website is up
and online.  Drop in at http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/
~mark.haywood/homepage.html
     Another new site is Paul McTaggart's Abduction
Phenomena webpage.  You can reach it at this URL:
http://www.abductee.net
     Don't miss our parent site, UFO INFO.  John Hayes
is in the processing of adding new info sources to the
site.  You'll find them at http://ufoinfo.com
     Back issues of UFO ROUNDUP can be accessed
and downloaded at http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/

     Thirty-seven years ago, on April 12, 1961, Major
Yuri Alexeyevich Gagarin blasted off aboard the
Russian spacecraft Vostok 1, becoming the first
human to reach outer space.  Traveling at an
estimated speed of 17,400 miles per hour, Vostok
attained an altitude of 325 kilometers (203 miles)
and went into orbit around the Earth.  Gagarin died
in a plane crash in 1968 at the age of 33.

     And we'll be back next weekend with more
saucer news from "the paper that goes home--
UFO ROUNDUP."  See you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1998 by Masinaigan
Productions, all rights reserved.  Readers may post
news items from UFO ROUNDUP on their websites
or in news groups provided that they credit the
newsletter and its editor by name and list the date
of issue in which the item first appeared.





   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 13

               Director General of the Giza Plateau Suspended?

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 08:32:04 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 08:32:04 -0400
Subject: Director General of the Giza Plateau Suspended?




From: http://www.amargiland.com/hall-of-records/newsflash/

Dr. Hawass: Obstruction Of Justice
Suspension As Director Of Giza Plateau


Sources high in the Egyptian Government have revealed a most
startling development in the occupational status of Dr. Zahi
Hawass. On March 17-24, 1998 - we, Larry Hunter and Amargi
Hillier, while on assignment in Egypt working on an upcoming
"Hall of Osiris" story, were asked by an honorable Egyptian
government person, with responsibilities related to the safety of
Egypt's #1 tourist site - the Giza Pyramids and Sphinx - to be
his guest. While in his company, we were informed of a most
interesting development regarding the occupational position of
Dr. Hawass.

What Dr. Zahi Hawass doesn't want you to know is that a secret
document, signed by a very high Egyptian Government official,
orders his suspension as Director General of the Giza Plateau.
The document revokes Dr. Hawass' signature authority concerning
the monuments of Giza for a time period of at least six months,
and also orders his transfer to a temporary position with the
Sound and Light Show.

During this time, Dr. Hawass has been instructed to remove
himself from his office and take up his new position at Sound and
Lights. However, Dr. Hawass, with the assistance and protection
of the highest antiquity official, Farouk Hosney - Chairman of
Antiquities, Minister of Culture - is not complying with the
orders of the higher Egyptian Government Authority. Dr. Hawass is
continuing to act as the Director General of the Giza Plateau and
is still signing documents. During a time that he is reportedly
no longer the director, Dr. Hawass continues to suggest to the
world that he is.

Is this not a classic case of obstruction of justice of a high
Egyptian official? For the suspension is related to an official
investigation into possible criminal activities by Dr. Zahi
Hawass related to Egyptian antiquities.

This news flash, hopefully, will provide for you a first and
groundbreaking peek at the corruption and deception of a man who
will soon be under the probing spotlight of the Egyptian and
world media, as well as his own government. This is the first
match to be struck in an effort to shed light on the truth about
what is really going on in Egypt. The light is now on you Dr.
Zahi Hawass. Stay tuned for the 2nd match to be struck which will
ignite the next most startling and disturbing truth. God's light
will soon be shining bright, exposing the truth concerning his
city and his ancient monuments.

Please Note: This news flash is meant to support the efforts of
the high Egyptian government official who so bravely wrote the
suspension order. If he needs our help in getting the truth to
the world, we are at his service.

Please contact us, Larry Hunter or Amargi Hillier, at the
following e-mail: hunter-hillier@amargiland.com.

We call on all the Egyptian newspapers to pick up this story and
follow it to the end. Do not be afraid that doing so will drive
away more tourists. Be confident in knowing, we as tourists are
tired of being ripped off, lied to and denied our heritage
concerning the truth as it relates to the true purpose and origin
of Egypt's Great Monuments. The Truth is what will bring us back.

"God, please cleanse your sanctuary of this evil". That is our
prayer for this day, Easter Sunday 1998.





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 13

                       Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 00:05:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 08:46:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:14:03 -0700 (PDT)
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

> Are these two Gemini S photos on the web anywhere, do you know?
> I started searching, but no luck.  Do I need to write to some
> NASA address and wait a few weeks?

I was unable to find anything older than shuttle photos at the
NASA online archives. I used NASA SP-129 "Earth Photographs from
Gemini III, IV, and V" LC#66-62098

Re: your comments on the inselberg - yes, unfortunately, the
resemblance is not exact. However, an exact likeness was not to
be expected, since there was no more than one photo on the web of
an inselberg, none taken from orbit, and, furthermore, as I've
mentioned before, Martian geology is significantly different from
terrestrial geology.

As I look at the images longer, the more they look like a
volcanic shield which experienced a fairly common differential
erosion. The revealed structure may actually be the lava filled
volcanic pipes and vents, which formed underneath a cover of
thinner (and softer) lava and ash deposits which have
subsequently been worn away.

A stunning example of this sort of thing affecting the area near
Amphitrites Patera (a very flat volcano with extremely fluid lava
flows) can be seen in Viking frame 578B01, where it modifies an
impact crater and some hills.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront/
------







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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 13

                   Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 23:36:16 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 08:44:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic

> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:48:43 -0400
> From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com> [Gary Alevy]
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic


> You have not addressed the question as to why the image has low
> contrast.  By definition the histogram analysis shows that, what's
> your explanation for why that is the case?

Actually, the histogram results as stated don't actually show
that. The statement was only 70 or 80 shades of grey were used
instead of 256. The 70 or 80 shades could include black and
white. But a look at the image shows that the incoming data is
low contrast.

There are a number of possible reasons:

1) Atmospheric aerosols
2) Suspended dust
3) Atmospheric moisture
4) Very low sun angle
5) Poor calibration of the camera system

Nothing mysterious. It doesn't take much to widen the dynamic
range, which is probably one of the first steps in image
processing, but everyone wanted raw data - so there it is. Also,
as long as the noise level is low, and the featrure size of
interest are large compared to the noise, the danger of
introducing artifacts is fairly small.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront/
------







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   Apr > Apr 13

               Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 07:47:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 08:52:24 -0400
Subject: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

>Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 13:24:18 -0700
>From: "Terry J. Blanton" <commengr@bellsouth.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

>Theresa wrote:

>> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:58:59 -0400
>> From: Theresa <Tcarlson1@compuserve.com>
>> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs
>> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>> One thing I haven't been able to find, is the UFO's shadow.
>> Even in the smog, or haze or whatever, the balconies and
>> other part of the builings and foreground clutter have nice
>> crisp shadows all aligned in the proper direction.

>Yeah, I looked for a shadow, too. At least they seem to get
>the light source in the right place.

>> That's kind of a shame because some of the higher end
>> softwares allow key framing of shadows as well.

>Software and EFFORT.  All good points, T!

>Terry


Terry,

Yes, Theresa does know her stuff.  I've watched her Shadows of
Doubt video a bunch of times, and find myself leaning toward her
position.

I think that the Mexico City UFO is a fake.  Good one, but fake.

Unfortunately, it is just too easy to fake something like this
today, so I expect to see lots of them turning up.

Bob








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                  CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS: A Face is a Face.....

From: AL Cornett <acorn@MIS.NET>
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 22:59:11 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 10:18:06 -0400
Subject: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS: A Face is a Face.....

Ladies and gentlemen:  As a painter of landscapes and an artist
(an old one) experienced in close observations of same for at
least 50 years please may I inject my opinion.

It is still a face although badly eroded (or changed).  Very
seldom, if ever in the natural erosion process do we see such
symmetrical curves,straight lines and 90 degree angles as in the
straight line "berm" around the face, the squared-off head dress
and the continuation of the top-of-the-head curvature.  Also, the
symmetry of the eyes, nose and mouth location is still present
although, as Hoagland has pointed out, simian in structure.

It can still be judged as, at least, the reminents of a once very
presentable face or the most remarkably concidental structure in
the history of geology,  the latter of which is doubtful in my
opinion.






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                       Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

From: Kerry Ferrand <kferrand@rocketmail.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 06:39:16 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:12:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism


> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism
> From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 00:05:19 -0400
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


> I was unable to find anything older than shuttle photos at the
> NASA online archives. I used NASA SP-129 "Earth Photographs from
> Gemini III, IV, and V" LC#66-62098


try this link for most NASA image sites:

http://www.nasa.gov/gallery/photo/index.html

K






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   Apr > Apr 13

                      Re: Rocket Men: The Houston Press

From: RSchatte <RSchatte@aol.com> [Rebecca]
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:18:58 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:20:12 -0400
Subject: Re:  Rocket Men: The Houston Press

Feature Story from The Houston Press  http://www.houstonpress.com
 Week of April 9-15

http://www.houstonpress.com/1998/current/feature2-1.html
http://www.houstonpress.com/1998/current/feature2-2.html
http://www.houstonpress.com/1998/current/feature2-3.html
http://www.houstonpress.com/1998/current/feature2-4.html
http://www.houstonpress.com/1998/current/feature2-5.html

URLs for this story may change after Wednesday

ROCKET MEN
by Steve McVicker

The way Harry Dace figures it, NASA engineer Jim Akkerman is the
best mechanic in the world. For Dace's sake -- and for the sake
of Dace's fledgling Civilian Astronaut Corps -- Akkerman had
better be.

Next year, on the Fourth of July, Dace and Akkerman hope to blast
six civilians into suborbital space. As holiday revelers watch
from a Galveston beach, the pair predicts, the titanium rocket
Akkerman designed will lift off from the Gulf of Mexico and make
a 15-minute journey from sea level to 70 miles above the earth's
surface. Then the rocket will glide back to Earth, landing in the
ocean near Galveston's sea wall.

Then, within two weeks, Dace and Akkerman plan to repeat the
launch. And after that, they hope to begin booking suborbital
flights to other continents -- flights so fast they make the
Concorde look poky.

"We are going to rewrite one of the most important phases of the
aerospace business," says the immodest Dace, who plans to be
onboard the first manned test flight of the vehicle. "We are on
the cutting edge, and everybody else is going to be copying us."


If they can carry off their scheme, they might indeed
revolutionize the flight industry, and win a $10 million prize in
the process. And -- oh yeah -- Dace and Akkerman might get very,
very rich.

Of course, they might also never leave the ground.

But that's a possibility that Dace refuses to acknowledge. "Like
Napoleon said: If you say you're going to Vienna, by God, you
better go to Vienna."


------------------------------------------------------------------------


As Harry Dace walks, his head and shoulders precede his tall,
thin body, and he unconsciously motions for the person trailing
him to pick up the pace. "In a modest way, I've done all right
for myself," he says, looking around the Brazoria County factory
where he manufactures air-conditioning ductwork. "But three years
ago, just before my 40th birthday, I decided I wanted to do
something."

He made a list of people he'd like to work with, and at the top
of that list was his boyhood hero, Jim Akkerman. As a 13-year-old
growing up in Pearland, Dace was fascinated by go-carts. In a
racing magazine, he learned that he lived near one of the best
go-cart builders and race drivers in the country: Akkerman, an
engineer at Johnson Space Center, held straightaway,
drag-strip-style track speed records at places like Indianapolis
Raceway Park. Dace was dying to meet him.

It turned out that Dace's father, who owned an air-conditioning
installation business, had gotten to know Akkerman while
installing the then-new Johnson Space Center's air-conditioning
system. Dace's dad called Akkerman, who said for young Harry to
come on over. Which he did.


For Akkerman, go-carts offered a chance to show off both his
engineering prowess and his daredeviltry. "In big-car racing," he
explains, "you're sort of racing cubic dollars. If you've got
enough money, you can win.
But in go-cart racing, you're racing ingenuity and careful
preparation -- the kind of things that an ordinary guy could
enjoy and do. And, if he did it well, he could win."

Akkerman belonged to a go-cart team, along with his dad and a
couple of other guys from NASA. In an old red Pontiac station
wagon, they traveled the country from race to race. And at home,
Akkerman worked to make his go-carts the fastest.

The engineer's house was a go-cart geek's wet dream. There, he
built his own engines out of solid blocks of aluminum and
machined his own crankshafts. He had engines with three
carburetors. He had rotary valves. He had reed valves. Dace was
awed.

According to Dace, Akkerman asked him what he wanted to be when
he grew up. Dace, in a fit of hero worship, gushed that he wanted
to be a rocket engineer, just like Akkerman.

It was a bad idea, Akkerman replied. There were already people
who knew how to build rockets. What the boy needed to do was to
learn to make money. If he could do that -- if he could learn to
run a business -- then one day, they could build a rocket
together.

Akkerman doesn't remember the conversation, but it stayed with
Dace. He remembered it almost 30 years later, in May 1995, long
after both men had lost interest in go-carts. Midlife crisis
raging, Dace called Akkerman. And once again, Akkerman told him
to come on over. Which he did.

Dace had picked a good time to approach Akkerman about embarking
on something new. After more than three decades with NASA, the
engineer had grown disillusioned with the government's space
program -- a program he'd once approached with the same zeal he
unleashed on his go-carts.

In 1962, just a year out of UT-Austin, Akkerman had gone to work
on NASA's propulsion team, creating a launch system that would
send Apollo crews to the moon. Over the years, Akkerman developed
a reputation as a problem-solver -- and as someone who couldn't
take no for an answer.

"He is very good at ferreting things out," says Guy Thibodeaux,
the former head of the propulsion division. "But sometimes Jim is
a little naive about reality."

Akkerman helped produce a 1979 NASA study that advocated building
a satellite to harvest solar energy, a clean, renewable source of
power.
But Congress looked only at the high price tag -- $69 billion in
start-up costs -- and promptly nixed the idea. Akkerman was
heartbroken.

A devout Baptist, he sees that loss through the lens of his
faith. "In the Bible, it talks about the Millennium, when the
good guys call the shots," he says. "Well, solar energy is going
to be the key. That will be the engine of the whole thing:
low-cost energy."

Over Akkerman's years at NASA, other disappointments followed. He
led a team that studied converting the space shuttles' rocket
boosters from solid fuel to liquid. The team recommended the
conversion; ten years later, the shuttle still runs on solid
fuel.

Currently, he's helping design the X-38, an emergency escape
vehicle for the proposed International Space Station. He
complains that most of the work is being done by team members he
refers to as "kids," while he's relegated to "nitpicky stuff." He
did convince the "kids" to accept his magnetized docking system,
rather than a less reliable bolt system, or a less safe
pyrotechnic release. But still, the vehicle doesn't please him:
In particular, he's worried about its parachute system, which
failed in one test flight.

Private industry, he hopes, will be more satisfying. In 1989,
Akkerman, along with other NASA engineers, helped Dr. Michael
DeBakey develop an artificial heart. Known as the axial flow
pump, the little device could be tried on a human as early as
next year. Smaller than most artificial hearts -- no larger than
two double-A batteries -- the pump could fit inside the chest of
a small woman or child and would be powerful enough to circulate
five liters of blood per minute.

After that project, Akkerman longed to throw himself into another
project he could do the right way -- his way. And what NASA
wouldn't let him do, Harry Dace just might.

The men spent a couple of months getting reacquainted, going
through Akkerman's files. In them, Dace was sure, lay buried a
world-changing idea that the two of them could work on.

In July 1995, sitting at Akkerman's kitchen table, they discussed
building a new air-conditioning evaporator system. But Dace,
already in the air-conditioning business, said he wasn't excited
by the idea, and he didn't think it excited Akkerman either.

Akkerman replied that Dace was right. There was only one thing in
the world that he really wanted to do. He got up, pulled a box
from a shelf, and gently placed it on the table. From the box, he
removed three pieces of a model rocket.

"If you can put together a company that can build these," he told
Dace, "I'll guarantee you these are the best rockets that have
ever been designed."

Dace and Akkerman were in business. The Civilian Astronaut Corps
was born.

Actually, Dace and Akkerman didn't stick with that model, but
switched to another of Akkerman's designs. The most startling
feature of the Mayflower II, as CAC will call its rocket, is its
launch pad: the ocean.
Towed to a spot about 30 miles offshore, Akkerman explains, the
rocket will bob upright in the ocean, just as a Coke bottle
would.

Akkerman happily reels off the details that make his engineer's
heart dance. The construction will actually be overseen by his
own company, Advent Launch Services. The Mayflower II, he says,
will be 70 feet long and weigh 15,000 pounds. It'll have a
titanium structure with two 10,000-gallon-capacity fuel tanks:
one for liquid natural gas, one for liquid oxygen. A cockpit will
perch at the top of the rocket; directly below it will be a
detachable passenger module 15 feet long and six feet in
diameter. At the bottom of the rocket will be eight TRW engines,
each capable of producing 5,000 pounds of thrust.

After the rocket's pressure-fed, underwater engine is started,
its exhaust will create a large underwater bubble. After the
rocket blasts off, the rising bubble will cause a wave large
enough to make trouble for any small vessels nearby. "If there
are any boats fishing," Akkerman laughs, "they're going to be in
for a real ride."

Dace prefers to describe the adventure of the ride, rather than
the nuts and bolts of the machine. He says that the Mayflower's
test flights out of the Gulf of Mexico will last about 15
minutes. As the vehicle approaches and descends from the peak of
its journey, passengers will experience about four minutes of
weightlessness. Clad in g-suits, they'll be free to unstrap
themselves from their hammock-like seats, and can float around
the cabin for roughly four minutes. "But when the pilot says to
get back in your seat," says Dace, "you'd better get back in your
seat."

That pilot will be Vaughn Cordle, a 42-year-old who's flown 767s
for United Airlines for the past 13 years. Cordle, who claims 44
jet-stream-enhanced flight records, became involved in the
project after a friend signed up for the inaugural flight.

On the phone from Atlanta, Cordle speaks in the monotone of all
airline pilots -- the style that author Tom Wolfe claimed was
copied from Chuck Yeager, who first broke the sound barrier 50
years ago. It's a monotone that makes anything, even flying a
rocket, sound like no big deal.

"When it comes back into the atmosphere," says Cordle, "it's
going to be traveling pretty fast, about 3,500 miles per hour. So
around 30,000 feet, that's when I'll start bringing the nose back
a little bit. I'll just ease it back, slow it down, and put it in
the water. It won't be gentle; it'll be kind of a rough ride. But
the landing and the gliding in, to me, are going to be a very
safe operation. I don't take risks. I stay inside the envelope."


At Harry Dace's air-conditioning ductwork plant, pinned to a wall
of his office, there's a large map of the world -- and of the
future as he sees it. Magic-markered lines connect various
cities, and above each line is written the time it would take to
make a suborbital flight from one point to the other: 35 minutes
from Los Angeles to Sydney; ten minutes from Boston to Ireland.

"You want to play the numbers game?" asks Dace. "Okay. Let's play
the numbers game."

Take the Los Angeles-to-Sydney route, says Dace. If his rocket
has room for six passengers, and he charges each passenger
$5,000, and he makes three trips a day, 200 days a year, he'll
gross a cool $180 million a year just on that route.

Of course, those projections focus on the future. Right now, Dace
and Akkerman are playing a different, grimmer numbers game. Dace
figures that it'll take $10 million to begin construction of the
Mayflower II, and it's $10 million that he and Akkerman don't
have.

To generate seed money, they've turned to would-be space
travelers.
Federal regulations prohibit charging for rides on experimental
vehicles, so Dace doesn't come right out and say that he's
charging $3,500 for a rocket ride. Instead, he says he's selling
"memberships" in his Civilian Astronauts Corps. According to
Dace, CAC members will actually own the rocket, but will agree to
sell it back to Dace and Akkerman after the ride. That way, if
the thing crashes, "their wives and kids can't come back and sue
us." Of course, he hastens to add, he's not expecting anything of
the sort.

Dace figures he needs to sign up 2,000 customers by this summer
for work to begin. So far, he's had 20 takers.

One of them is 21-year-old Toney Hermes, an employee of Fox
Sports Southwest. Hermes, a self-described thrill junkie,
stumbled across the project's web page, and over his girlfriend's
objections, made a reservation on CAC's first flight. That one,
he says, is the one that'll get all the attention. The one
that'll make history.

And, maybe, the one that'll win Dace and Akkerman the $10
million. Two years ago, a group of St. Louis businessmen
established the X Prize Foundation, which offers that prize money
to the first private team that flies two passengers to the
suborbital height of 62 miles above the Earth -- and then does it
again within two weeks. The foundation hopes to kindle the spirit
of competition that propelled Charles Lindbergh across the
Atlantic; so far, 16 would-be space enterprises have entered the
competition. X Prize officials say that all have a shot at
winning.

But, so far, the pack of contenders doesn't particularly impress
the space powers-that-be. "We think space should be open to
commercial opportunities," says NASA spokesman Brian Welch. "And
we're doing everything we can to make that happen. But what we've
found over the years is that flying in space is difficult and
costly and dangerous."

Other space-industry observers offer Dace and Akkerman even less
encouragement. Two weeks ago, NASA and the Space Transportation
Association, a private group that claims to represent companies
hoping to develop commercial space travel, issued a report
predicting that the first private-sector trips into space will
likely charge at least $100,000 per passenger. The report made no
mention of the Civilian Air Corps' plan -- at $3,500 per person,
an astounding bargain.

"I don't want to knock them," says STA spokesman Eric Stallmer,
"because maybe they've got an idea that no one else knows about.
But if it was easy to build a vehicle for that price, everyone
would be doing it. The idea sounds a little hokey."

Still, Gregg E. Maryniak, chief operations officer of the X Prize
Foundation, disagrees with those who doubt the Civilian Air
Corps, and invokes the foundation's favorite historical hero.
"Lindbergh had completely different technology from all the other
teams," says Maryniak. "He had a very lean approach. One pilot,
single engine, relatively light aircraft. And because he had such
a simple approach, he won. But he was definitely the dark horse
at the time."

Such debate means little to Jim Akkerman, who harbors no doubts
at all about his approach; he only wonders whether Harry Dace can
raise the money to build the Mayflower.

Akkerman's mind is already on other projects, such as privately
launched satellites capable of harvesting his beloved solar
energy, and a rocket even more ambitious than the Mayflower. "A
suborbital ride is just the tip of the iceberg," he says. "The
real kick in the ass is going to be orbital flight. Spend two or
three hours circling the earth -- now that  will be a ride."

Contact Steve McVicker at his online address. Or call him at
713.624.1477.

Got a comment/compliment/beef? Send us your feedback.






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   Apr > Apr 13

                       Re: Strieber On Father Balducci

From: John <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:31:54 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:17:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Strieber On Father Balducci

>Date: 12 Apr 1998 08:09:53 -0000
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>From: Stig Agermose <interstate@supernews.com>
>Subject: Strieber On Father Balducci

>My server is down at the moment so I'm using another one. The
>email below was received via "alt.ufo.reports" and Deja News.

>Stig

>*******

>Subject: Whitley Strieber comments on Monsignor Corrado Balducci (fwd)
>From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
>Date: 1998/04/11
>Message-ID:   <6goneo$72k@basement.replay.com>
>Newsgroups:
>alt.alien.visitors,alt.ufo.reports,alt.paranet.ufo,alt.conspiracy.area51

Hi Errol, hi All,

It is _painful_ posts such as these that make me rue the day I
'came out' publicly as an abductee. These guys are an
embarassment. I almost hate to respond to  because it's always
interpreted as one "camps" opinion about another "camp." I just
can't let garbage like this go by unflagged though. Please, do
not interpret my opinions as "in-house fighting" or more
ufologists feeding and tearing apart other ufologists.

That is _not_ where I'm coming from at all.

John Velez- comments to follow. Read on at your own risk.
----------------

>Forwarded Message:

>Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:28:19 -0500
>To: UFOLAWYER1@AOL.COM
>From: Whitley Strieber <xtrl@worldnet.att.net>
>Subject: Monsignor Corrado Balducci

>Dear Peter:

>Msgr. Balducci is entirely real, and much of what he has been
>saying about the visitors is accurately presented in Boylan's
>statement. In addition, I understand that he has been doing a
>good deal of television recently. I know the Monsignor through
>Michael Hesseman and have talked to him personally about his
>views.

Boylan, Balducci, Hesseman, Strieber, does anyone else see a
'pattern' here? Keerist what a crew! Strieber vouches for
Balducci who is in turn corroborated by Boylan.


Or,

Moe says that Curly is for real and it must be because, Moe says
so, and -Larry- wrote an article about it! What a bunch of self-
deluded, egotistical crap that is. Streiber's just a writer for
Gods sake. How does his endorsement of Balducci constitute any
kind of 'authority!' Strieber assumes that his saying so
constitutes some kind of authoritative statement. I'll simply let
my 'Three Stooges' analogy stand.

>He has given me an interview that is going to be published
>in my new book Confirmation,

I'd hate to think that the rest of this post from Strieber was
constructed as camouflage for a shameless plug for his upcoming
book! But maybe I hit paydirt here by accident.

>and he makes the point that
>it is dangerous for Christians to ignore the testimony of
>millions if they are to accept the testimony of just a few as the
>basis of doctrine.

"...the testimony of millions,..." Was there a major nationwide
survey conducted while I slept? "Millions?" Where does he get
"millions?"

>He also discusses his contention that the visitors are not demons,

Which is based on, . . . ?

>Msgr. Balducci told me personally when I asked him about his
>relationship to the pope that he knows the pope and is friendly
>with him. When I asked him if the pope was aware of his views on
>UFOs, he said that they had not discussed the matter per se, but
>had talked together about issues of demonology.

For all we know Balducci ran into the Pope at the Vatican urinals
and as they relieved themselves the Pope may have casually
inquired about what's new in the old excorsizm department! (Just
to make polite conversation during an awkward moment. <G>)

>Boylan is also accurate in describing Msgr. Balducci as an expert
>on demonology.

Now there's an "endorsement" for you! I wonder if the Monsignior
is aware of Mr Boylan's sexually abusive/exploitive approach to
abduction therapy?

>He has published on the subject and has been the
>exorcist for the Archdiocese of Rome. It is because of his
>expertise in this field that there is reason for Christians to
>regard his views on the question of whether or not the visitors
>are demons as an authoritative one.

Well hey, if he's an authority on demons who else would you go
to to find out? <painful grimace>

>In the interview I have, he did not mention anything about Papal
>nuncios reporting information to the Vatican on a formal basis,
>or the existence of a commission to deal with the issue.

So it's just Monsignior Loose Cannon then?

>He has personally read and agreed to every detail of the
>translation, and it is completely accurate. It will be published
>as an appendix to Confirmation, which should be in the stores by
>April 15.

And -again- DON'T FORGET TO MENTION THE BOOK!
(What did I tell ya earlier kiddies! Money talks,
bullshit walks. <EG>)

>In the interest of accuracy, I would very much appreciate your
>reposting of this letter to the same list that has received the
>previous two posts.

Or, "We want to reach as broad a 'UFO demographic customer base'
as we possibly can! (Gotta sell that book man. Mortgage is due!)

>Sincerely yours,

In Capitalist lust, . . .

>Whitley Strieber

"Messenger" of the Gods, Yadda, yadda, yadda.

John Velez, (speaking for myself)








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   Apr > Apr 14

                  Re: Cydonianism [was Re: Catholicism vs.

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 12:54:05 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 08:18:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Cydonianism [was Re: Catholicism vs.

>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism
>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 00:05:19 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:14:03 -0700 (PDT)
>> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>> From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism

>> Are these two Gemini S photos on the web anywhere, do you know?
>> I started searching, but no luck.  Do I need to write to some
>> NASA address and wait a few weeks?

>I was unable to find anything older than shuttle photos at the
>NASA online archives. I used NASA SP-129 "Earth Photographs from
>Gemini III, IV, and V" LC#66-62098

>Re: your comments on the inselberg - yes, unfortunately, the
>resemblance is not exact. However, an exact likeness was not to
>be expected, since there was no more than one photo on the web of
>an inselberg, none taken from orbit, and, furthermore, as I've
>mentioned before, Martian geology is significantly different from
>terrestrial geology.

Certainly not to be expected, no.  It is precisely the
inselberg's lack of extreme regularity of outline, probable lack
of good symmetry, etc., that causes it not to have any appearance
of artificiality.

>As I look at the images longer, the more they look like a
>volcanic shield which experienced a fairly common differential
>erosion. The revealed structure may actually be the lava filled
>volcanic pipes and vents, which formed underneath a cover of
>thinner (and softer) lava and ash deposits which have
>subsequently been worn away.

But of course no volcano would have straight sides where it
intersects the surrounding plains, with those sides very
gradually merging into a more expected curved shape at the
"chin," but quickly merging into a curve of larger radius at the
"top of the head," while overall exhibiting good "lateral"
symmetry as well.

And the odds are extremely poor that the upper two-thirds of the
"volcano" would erode away down to a uniform height all around,
and at that height the odds are again poor that the "volcanic"
interior next to an eroded top would have filled up to the same
height all around, leaving the congruent trench-like edge to the
shape of the inner "pedestal."  And the odds of no lava from a
volcano having spilled over the edge somewhere and produced
lateral asymmetry of the edge need to be taken into account. The
symmetrically placed rectilinear features of the "headdress," as
Van Flandern calls it, should also enter into the calculation of
the odds; this feature had not been visible in the 1976 images.

It's the consideration of the combined mathematical odds against
any such scenario occurring naturally, Mark, that keeps the
artificiality hypothesis very much alive.

>A stunning example of this sort of thing affecting the area near
>Amphitrites Patera (a very flat volcano with extremely fluid lava
>flows) can be seen in Viking frame 578B01, where it modifies an
>impact crater and some hills.

Is this available somewhere on the web?

Jim Deardorff






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                               The Performance

From: "Ben Field" <ben@abcfield.force9.co.uk> [Bruce Cornet, Ph.D.]
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:21:18 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 08:24:00 -0400
Subject: The Performance

Hello everyone,

One of the most spectacular performances by UFOs happened in Pine
Bush on 29 April 1993 before seven witnesses, including the
Sightings TV camera crew.

The Performance, a new website by Bruce Cornet, Ph.D., and Ben
Field, webmaster of BUFOD http://www.abcfield.force9.co.uk , is
now available for study.

Fifteen pages with 21 graphics and images, and ten sound files
document this extraordinary event, which involved deliberate
low-altitude runs at the cameras by two stealth aircraft, one of
which may have been the reverse-engineered TR-3A Black Manta, and
the other a very large diamond-shaped craft, nicknamed the Manta
Ray.

Evidence of antigravitic technology, plasma lights, right angle
turns, hovering, and aerobatics is documented. The flight
envelopes for the FT, a deltoid-shaped craft, and the Manta Ray
go beyond that of any military hardware revealed by the U.S. Air
Force.  An observation craft on the ground was also photographed,
and a possible image of the pilot can be seen through its large
transparent dome.

Telepathy and precognition, evidence for which was captured on
photographs, implies the presence of non-humans, while the
banking maneuvers of the aircraft imply skills more common to
human pilots.

The two stealth black aircraft that came the closest to the
cameras possessed hybrid technology designed for flight in an
atmosphere, but they were capable of defying the laws of
aerodynamic flight.  "More than likely it was a well planned and
staged release of information in a controlled environment, an
experiment to see how information such as this would be
interpreted and handled by scientists, the media, and the public.
I believe that it was part of a government/military black ops
program to gradually release and educate the public about contact
and alliance with non-human civilizations."

This information will help those seeking proof of and evidence
for the extent of alliance between humans and non-humans in
covert black projects.

The Performance: http://www.abcfield.force9.co.uk/bcornet/

Yours truly,
Bruce Cornet, Ph.D.
Geologist and Paleontologist
bcornet@monmouth.com
http://www.OrionWorks.com/bcornet/
http://www.planetarymysteries.com/genisis-geneset.html







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                   Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 12:54:08 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 08:19:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic

>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic
>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 23:36:16 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:48:43 -0400
>> From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com> [Gary Alevy]
>> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic

>> You have not addressed the question as to why the image has low
>> contrast.  By definition the histogram analysis shows that, what's
>> your explanation for why that is the case?

>Actually, the histogram results as stated don't actually show
>that. The statement was only 70 or 80 shades of grey were used
>instead of 256. The 70 or 80 shades could include black and
>white. But a look at the image shows that the incoming data is
>low contrast.

>There are a number of possible reasons:

>1) Atmospheric aerosols
>2) Suspended dust

Mark,

Actually, these two are the same for Mars.  I wonder, do we have
any independent astronomical observations that would indicate the
Cydonia area was experiencing a dust storm?

>3) Atmospheric moisture

By this you would mean clouds, since water vapor is transparent.
I commented on the problem with the thin, invisible cloud-sheet
hypothesis earlier. In one of Ron Baalkes's communiques he
mentioned that a thick cloud layer did lie over a different
region of Mars (Utopia Planitia), but this caused an obvious
brightness saturation problem.

>4) Very low sun angle

Actually, a 25-degree solar elevation, or even lower, seems
pretty optimal to me to show up shadows and differences in albedo
well, which an overhead sun wouldn't do.  Yet 25 degrees isn't so
low as to accentuate dust or haze very much.

>5) Poor calibration of the camera system

Could be.

Jim Deardorff






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                 McDaniel And Strange On New Cydonia Imaging

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 01:28:04 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 08:49:32 -0400
Subject: McDaniel And Strange On New Cydonia Imaging

>From Discovery (Channel) Online. URL:

http://www.discovery.com/news/briefs/brief3.html

*******


More 'Face on Mars' Photos Coming


On Tuesday, the Mars Global Surveyor will make its second flyby
of the Cydonia region of Mars, where the famous "face on Mars"
rock formation lies.

Last Tuesday, the Surveyor beamed back pictures of the formation
to Earth for eager space buffs to interpret. But the images
looked more like like a pile of rocks than a face. Those sent
back in 1976 during the Viking mission to Mars showed a formation
that clearly resembled a mask-like face. Face-supporters
speculate that the formation is man or alien made, and was meant
to be seen from another planet.

"I'm frustrated with the image I wanted information that would
kill it (the rumors of it being an alien construction) or give it
credence," says Dr. James Strange, a professor of material
culture and religion at the University of Florida, Tampa, who has
been following the face in space for years.

But, as several Mars observers point out, in these photos the
light was shining from a different direction, and the spacecraft
photographed the rock formation from a different angle than the
Viking did.

Tuesdays flyby will be closer, and from a different angle,
Strange says, which may shed more light on whether the formation
is naturally geometric, or whether its a heavily eroded
sculpture.

Stanley McDaniel, former chairman of the philosophy department at
Sonoma State University in Calif. and author of "The McDaniel
Report" about the Martian features, says on his website devoted
to the formation: "My initial guess is that the low resolution of
the Viking images, plus the particular lighting conditions, were
what produced the remarkably face-like appearance in the images
we are familiar with. It is our hope now that the camera on the
next two orbits (April 14, 24) will retarget to obtain an image
of the 'City' and the 'Fort.'"

Strange, too, is concentrating more on the mounds and valleys
that surround the mesa-like formation, often referred to as the
fort. From the new round of pictures, hell try to determine if
the eight mounds are an elegant geology that produces this kind
of a feature, or maybe theyre created.

If it looks like theyre too perfect to have been formed
naturally, it sure would be exciting, he says.

Stay tuned to Discovery Online for more details on the face as
they emerge.


By Lori Cuthbert


RELATED STORIES

*The Face in Space


News Brief

DISCOVERY ONLINE


Picture: NASA |

Copyright =A9 1998 Discovery Communications Inc.





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                     Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

From: Michael Wayne Malone <wayne@HiWAAY.net>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:07:13 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 08:45:20 -0400
Subject: Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face


> From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia]
> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 00:49:09 EDT
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: My Conclusion on the Mars Face

> Gee Bob, I thought you said that you would love to be proven
> wrong on this matter. Sounds like your the one who is entrenched
> in a belief that all the objects in question are natural.

Or is he being a realist waiting on some sort of evidence before
jumping to a wild conclusion?

> They may be natural but we need to wait before we know more.

Why? Why is it such a bad idea to assume that the features are
natural instead of artificial?

> By the way, what technical articles have you read regarding the
> objects on Mars? Have you read any of them or is your belief so
> strong that the objects are natural that you won't even look at
> the serious work that has been done? Turn the other way & don't
> even look!

What scientifically acceptable technical articles on the new
pictures do you refer to?

> This sounds like the same people who wouldn't look at the crazy
> Wright Bros. new flying object because lighter than air flight
> was impossible and the Wright Bros. had to be hoaxers. Man, does
> history repeat itself or what?

If this is your idea of technical, then I'm even more firmly
entrenched against your notions.

Lighter than air flight existed and was well accepted before the
Wright brothers ever developed their powered HEAVIER than air
flying machine. And I think you will be hard pressed to find
anyone of any scientific training Circa the Wright Brothers who
thought heavier than air flight was impossible.  After all, they
could watch birds, couldn't they?

Michael






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                Toronto Star: Mars Loses Face With New Photo

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 08:54:30 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 08:54:30 -0400
Subject: Toronto Star: Mars Loses Face With New Photo




The Toronto Star, Sunday, April 12, 1998

Context Section, p.F8

Mars Loses Face With New Photo

It was a long time coming, but finally, 22 years after it was
first seen, the famous "face" on Mars has been revealed in enough
detail to show what it really is a rumpled kilometre-wide
plateau of rock.

Not that this comes as much of a surprise to Mars experts who
long ago pointed out that the Cydonia sector of Mars where the
face is located is littered with similarly sized eroded plateaus,
known as mesas, a geologic feature familiar to anyone who  has
travelled the U.S. southwest. One of the mesas on Mars happens
to look like a face under certain sun-angle lighting conditions.
Those conditions prevailed back in 1976 when the Viking Orbiter
spacecraft was mapping Mars looking for a smooth touchdown site
for the Viking lander.

The Viking Orbiter image shows the face feature illuminated from
above the right forehead'. The Mars Global Surveyor image is
illuminated from the opposite direction, from below the left side
of the chin.

But the main difference is that the new picture takes advantage
of two decades of technological progress and is more than 10
times sharper. The eye sockets, mouth and nose are not smooth, as
in the Viking image, but rough and irregular in their details as
would be expected of an eroded natural rock formation.

The new image was taken from an altitude of 444 kilometres using
the 3500mm focal length f10 telescopic camera on board the Mars
Global Surveyor spacecraft, which has been orbiting the red
planet since last September. The scene shows features as small as
a house.

Two decades ago, the apparently symmetrical and strikingly
humanoid appearance of the feature in the Viking image got some
researchers wondering if it might be the product of alien
intelligence rather than a natural feature. In the spirit of
scientific inquiry, this group of four scientists and engineers
concluded in 1982 that the face might be the artefact of
extraterrestrial intelligence. The late Carl Sagan noted the
unusual nature of the feature and suggested that it should be a
high-priority target for the next spacecraft mission to Mars.

Although the majority of Mars experts rejected any possibility
that the feature could be anything but a natural formation, the
Mars-face question ballooned into a field day for supermarket
tabloids ("Elvis' face found on Mars") and conspiracy theorists
who insist that NASA is concealing images that prove that the
face was built by aliens.

With this background, NASA took extraordinary measures to use the
Mars Global Surveyor to get a high-resolution shot of the face as
soon as possible, and to make sure it was released to the public
immediately to deflect accusations of a cover-up. Although
nothing will convince the most rabid conspiracy theorists, the
clarity of the Mars Global Surveyor picture has finally put this
controversy to rest.

--- Terence Dickinson is editor of Skynews magazine and the





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                 'Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel

From: fdoernen@ruhrgebiet.net, Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 02:13:03 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:16:18 -0400
Subject: 'Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel

Received via the German newsgroup 'de.alt.ufo' on April 14 at 00.26
local time (GMT + 1 hour). Two other leading 'Mars Face' researchers
Stanley McDaniel and Tom Van Flandern were on the same Laura Lee show
April 11.

Stig

*******

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:18:05 GMT
From: fdoernen@ruhrgebiet.net (Frank D=F6rnenburg)
Subject: Vincent DiPietro
Message-ID: <3531f42c.6277036@news.nacamar.de>


Hi!

Aus alt.fan.art-bell:
--------------------------
"A Pile Of Rocks"

Vincent DiPietro, the discoverer of the face on mars, has thrown
in the towel, and said that the face on mars is a pile of rocks.
He waved the white flag on the Laura Lee show,

http://www.lauralee.com/archive/04_11_98.htm

-----------------------

Bye,
FD

Visit http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FDoernenburg









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                     Plasma Physicist: Oil Shale On Mars

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 03:34:35 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:17:52 -0400
Subject: Plasma Physicist: Oil Shale On Mars

>From Florida Today. URL:

http://www.flatoday.com:80/space/explore/stories/1998/041098b.htm

*******


FLORIDA TODAY Space Online
"Planet Earth's best source for online space news"

For April 10, 1998


Making a case for a face on Mars; scientist not ready to concede


By Billy Cox
FLORIDA TODAY


CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. - Though the so-called Face on Mars appears to
have dissolved under sharper optical scrutiny, a group of researchers
touting a dead-civilization hypothesis aren't bailing out yet. In fact,
a scientist who'll be speaking in West Melbourne on Saturday claims
Mars was once teeming with so much life, it might harbor massive
supplies of oil.

"We have meteorites that say Mars had a history of liquid water much
longer than anyone suspected, maybe 2 to 3 billion years, and that it
was awash in a rich, organic soup," says John Brandenburg, a plasma
physicist with the RSI Corp. in Lanham, Md.

"What I've discovered is oil shale on Mars. That could make going to
Mars the equivalent of purchasing 500 new Alaskas."

Beginning at 2 p.m. Saturday at Barnes and Noble Booksellers,
Brandenburg will make his pitch with a lecture, which coincides with
last month's release of a controversial book, The Case for the Face
(Adventures Unlimited Press, $17.95), to which he contributed.

The Case for the Face - authored by a score of multidisciplinary
researchers whose fields include geology, physics and computer imaging
- deals largely with data collected by NASA's Viking orbiter data in
1976. Investigators calling themselves the Society for Planetary SETI
Research (SPSR) go to exhaustive lengths asserting that alignments
among Martian surface features in the Cydonia desert reflect redundant,
geometrical consistencies that appear non-random.

For instance, Thomas Van Flandern, former chief of celestial mechanics
for the U.S. Naval Observatory, argues in a paper presented to the
American Astronomical Society that the Face stands only a 1 percent
probability of having occurred by chance. And after studying a series
of mounds near the Face, Horace Crater, a physicist with the University
of Tennessee's Space Institute, calculates the odds are 200 million to
1 against natural origins.

Last November, six SPSR researchers shared their conclusions with NASA
officials Carl Pilcher and Joe Boyce. Team member Stanley McDaniel,
former Sonoma State University philosophy department chairman, had been
one of NASA's biggest critics; in 1993, his scalding McDaniel Report
accused the space agency of sabotaging scientific inquiry into Cydonia
through negligence and false claims.

But after the meeting, The Case for the Face reports that Pilcher,
acting director of Solar System Studies, told SPSR that NASA would make
the Face a targeting priority for Mars Global Surveyor. Significantly,
MGS would train its high-resolution camera on the region, which could
resolve the formation 10 times better than Viking.

"It was a remarkable and thoughtful meeting," says SPSR member David
Webb, a member of President Reagan's National Commission on Space and
now retired in Daytona Beach. "They were obviously impressed by the
work that'd been done. My impression was that they were anxious to get
these photos, and NASA went to extraordinary lengths to introduce new
software to get the pictures (this month)."

NASA released the first photo of the Face in 22 years on Monday, and
initial results were a bust for the pro-Face crowd. The sphinx-like
visage staring into Viking's camera seemed to have disintegrated into
craggy desolation beneath the MGS squint.

"The picture NASA sent back is devilishly tough to analyze," says
Biblical archaeologist James Strange, former dean of the Religious
Studies Department at the University of South Florida. "We've got a
low-grey scale with only 56 shades of grey; we expected it to be in the
80s. We're all processing like mad."

Strange says new photos of the mounds and the pyramidal formations on
Cydonia are more critical to acquire than the Face. "We're anxiously
awaiting any other images," he says. "And if it turns out that the
mounds are just piles of rocks, well, then we'll just have to figure
out why they're all located on a square root of 2 grid."

But what MGS won't be able to do is resolve a challenge posted by John
Brandenburg. A year before NASA Administrator Dan Goldin announced
evidence for Mars microfossils in August 1996, Brandenburg was working
on an even gutsier evolutionary leap - Martian oil shale.

Origins for Brandenburg's research date back to 1965, when a geologist
named Bartholomew Nagy published his findings on exotic meteorites
known as carbonaceous chondrites, abbreviated C1. The extraterrestrial
clay-like stones were filled with tarry matter called kerogen, a
biological substance on Earth, resembling oil shale.

Brandenburg, a NASA Advisory Board member on reusable launch vehicles,
located the literature on eight CI meteorites, discovered in Africa,
India, Antarctica and Europe, and began comparing notes. The result was
a paper in the May 1996 Geophysical Research Letters journal assigning
the C1 meteorites to Mars, based on oxygen isotopes and noble gases. He
says Goldin encouraged him to continue his research.

"What it means is that early Mars was crawling with life and perhaps
supported an Earthlike climate as recently as the Coal Age, maybe 500
million years ago," Brandenburg poses. "What this means is that Mars
suddenly becomes very easy to colonize. Rocket fuel, the production of
plastics, food sources - Mars is a treasure, and making it our 51st
state should be our goal."

Richard Hoover, an astrophysicist at Marshall Space Flight Center in
Huntsville, Ala., included Brandenburg's paper during a Society for
International Engineering conference last year in San Diego. Hoover is
a fence-sitter when it comes to Brandenberg's theories. "He's advanced
some arguments that may have merit," he says, choosing his words
carefully. "I don't think many people are going to argue that CIs have
complex organics. But whether they're from Mars - that's another
matter."

Harold McSween, a University of Tennessee geologist and a leading
authority on meteorites, labels the Martian origins of C1 "ludicrous,"
and says the puzzling meteorites are most likely primitive debris left
over from the formation of the solar system.

"When Brandenburg proposed that we have these kinds of meteorites
included with Mars samples, he was met with a kind of stunned silence,"
McSween says. "It goes against how we think meteorites are formed. It's
not as controversial as the Face is, but it's out there.

"It would be kind to describe this as a debate. No one's debating this
except John Brandenburg, and the idea is so implausible that most
people have ignored it."

Brandenburg's most recent campaign for peer support came last month,
when his work was featured in the Martian meteorite section of the
Lunar and Planetary Science Conference in Houston. He is undeterred by
the critics, comparing the intransigence of conventional thinking to
the collapse of the Berlin Wall. "When the wall fell, it only seemed to
take a few days, but it was crumbling for decades because it was built
on a flawed premise," he says.

"Outside of Jerusalem, Mars is the most political piece of real estate
in the solar system," Brandenburg adds. "Maybe the only thing we can
all agree on is that the Mars story is just going to get bigger and
bigger."

In the meantime, SPSR researchers and other Earthlings will be waiting
for more Cydonia images. MGS will take another shot at it on Monday,
and again on April 24. After that, Surveyor will swing back out to
reposition itself into a full-fledged mapping orbit this summer.

Says McDaniel, "No one images of the Face will end the controversy,
because of the two dozen or so other anomalous formations in the region
which form the basis of many of our statistical conclusions."


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                   Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic

From: "Keith Woodard" <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 19:47:41 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:27:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic


>Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 21:40:38 -0700 (PDT)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic

>>Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 06:13:59 -0700 (PDT)
>>From: Kerry Ferrand <kferrand@rocketmail.com>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:48:43 -0400
>>> From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com> [Gary Alevy]
>>> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic

>>> You have not addressed the question as to why the image has low
>>> contrast.  By definition the histogram analysis shows that,
>>> what's your explanation for why that is the case?

>>> Gary

>>to quote http://marsweb.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/target/update4-9.html:

>>"Since winter clouds cover much of the northern hemisphere
>>of Mars above 40=B0 N latitude at this time of the Martian
>>year, the raw image of the "Face" was of very low contrast,
>>that is, variations in brightness of the picture elements
>>cover a very small range compared to the ultimate capability
>>of the camera. Thus, the "raw" image appears very dark and
>>flat".

<snip>

> But I'm very dubious of this being an explanation that applies
> here.

As well you might be, Jim.

MSSS now has another, more satisfying explanation of the low
image contrast.  (I hate to say this, but it puts those who were
completely satisfied with the "clouds" explanation in a bit of an
awkward position.  I think the discussion would be more
productive if we were all to redouble our efforts to suspend our
biases, Bob Shell. :-)  (I can say that because my own bias is
against the face.  And because I love Bob Shell.))

In any case, it's probably best to enter here:

http://www.msss.com/mars/global_surveyor/camera/images/index.html

Then click on "MOC and Viking Histograms."

(Another new page, "Why the 'Face' image is only 1024 pixels wide"
answers another of Hoagland's accusations of tampering that can be
found at:

http://www.enterprisemission.com/images/finger.jpg )

What MSSS is saying on the histogram page is that, once the
Viking images are corrected, they show the same low contrast as
the Face strip.  In the case of both Viking and Surveyor, this is
the result of deliberate exposure settings motivated by fear of
losing data should rare areas of high contrast be encountered.

One caveat.  This article implies the raw strip contains typical
Mars contrast levels.  This is not consistent with their previous
reference to "the low contrast of the raw MOC high resolution
image."  (See "MOC Observes the "Face" on Mars," at the same
URL.)  For this reason, I wish they would release other raw data
-- frankly, all of it.

Kind regards,

Keith





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   Apr > Apr 14

                Betty Hill Disavows Modern Abduction Research

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 05:13:46 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:29:29 -0400
Subject: Betty Hill Disavows Modern Abduction Research


Again. I am not posting this news item to endorse the views
voiced therein, but for the sole purpose of information.

This excerpt is from the new issue of Fortean Times. I have added
"B" as a signature for Peter Brookesmith and "H" for Betty Hill.
URL:

http://www.forteantimes.com:80/artic/110/betty.html

*******


BETTY HILL and her husband Barney were apparently abducted by the
occupants of a UFO in September 1961. The event became the
template for the ever more elaborate abduction claims that we
hear today. But they don't impress Betty Hill, as PETER
BROOKESMITH discovered when he visited her at home in New
Hampshire.

I'd heard about Betty's acerbic opinions of the modern abduction
phenomenon on the ufological grapevine. Naturally I wondered how
far and in what ways we might agree. We talked a lot about cats
(about 15 condescend to frequent her house) and politics and her
own abduction, but her less than dewy-eyed approach to most of
today's abduction claims will probably surprise people more.

Those who promote the abduction phenomenon or, by their silence,
do nothing to temper its excesses, do not amuse her though she
chuckles a lot as she talks and never loses an opportunity to
make a lightning-fast wisecrack. In 1995 she published A Common
Sense Approach to UFOs, which tells of her long involvement in
UFO and abduction investigation. "I have the feeling that most
UFO organizations dislike my book," she wrote to me before we
met. "None of them have reviewed it."


B: You must feel a certain amount of chagrin that this phenomenon
has gone the way it has.

H: I try very hard not to have guilt feelings about the way
stupid people have misinterpreted my experience. The reason I
wrote this book was to try to get across to people that they
should stay away from hypnosis. Don't let anybody fool around in
your brain. I mean, you have problems enough to live with
yourself, without other people making their contribution.

The whole problem now is the lack of understanding of hypnosis.
The first stage of hypnosis is one of suggestibility. It's
supposed to be useful to have a person lose weight, or help them
cut down on smoking, or something like that. But if you say to a
person, "You murdered someone!" in the first stage of hypnosis,
they're going to spend the rest of their lives looking for the
body. And the same too, when somebody goes in for hypnosis for a
UFO abduction, they're going to get it (chuckles).

I can do hypnosis, and I can give you an abduction in 20 minutes.
Sure I could. You can do it to anybody. See, what they use for
hypnosis for abductions now is what we call 'flight of fantasy'.
I do it with whole groups. Put someone in a light trance, and
give them the choice. You can go aboard a UFO, you can go back to
a past life, you can take a quick trip around the galaxy, or you
can go into the future. Ninety seven per cent will go back to a
past life!

B: So you would trust an abduction account that came from medical
hypnosis, but not one that comes from a lighter form of the
technique the kind people like Hopkins and Jacobs and Mack use?

H: When people tell weird tales hallucinations, delusions,
fantasy, dreams, something they've seen, heard or read when you
rule out all of those, then you may have reality. And in working
with people for years people would call me, particularly after
they saw my movie, The UFO Incident, and say, "I think I've been
abducted." And I'd say, "Well, you know, we really don't know."
And I worked with these people, and we were able to pinpoint why
they thought they'd been abducted when they had not been. As a
result of this I was able to develop criteria to establish the
real abductions from the fantasies. In this country, they say
three million people have been abducted. Not once, but
continuously. D'you realize that means three or four thousand
people every night are bring abducted? In this country alone? I
don't know how the planes get through.

Most abduction researchers and their supporters say that what
they find must be real, because it's consistent from witness to
witness.

Of course it's real to them because they tell 'em the same thing!
You know those therapy groups? A woman called me. She quit. She
said she got fed up. That therapy group it ends up in "I'll show
you the kind of sex I had on board the UFO if you show me the
kind of sex you had on board the UFO." No matter what the subject
is it's "Me Too!" I call 'em the Me-Too People. Whereas every
real abduction has been totally different. There are no
duplications. Actually, the real abductions, you've never heard
of. Because nobody's writing any books about 'em.
Most people who've been really abducted, have the same attitude
Barney and I did. It was our experience and it was nobody else's
business. But then we got the publicity. But they have the same
feeling. It's something between them, and the UFOs.

B: If the kind of hypnosis that's used is producing fantasies,
why do you think people are having those particular fantasies?

H: Because the investigators are directing them to have those
fantasies. They're suggesting them to them. They're very, very
destructive people. They don't care who they hurt to make people
buy a book, to make some money. Okay I've been having contacts
with this girl. Ten years old, she's on vacation with her
parents, and she goes for a walk in the woods. And she's late
getting back. Her parents are yelling to her, her brother's
yelling to her, and they're saying, "Where have you been? We were
ready to call out the police." But she was just taking a walk in
the woods.

Years later, she wondered: Did I get abducted by a UFO? Even
though she didn't see any UFOs. So she goes down and visits [a
famous abduction researcher] for nine days. And during the nine
days, she has all these abductees come in and tell her in great
detail what happened to them on board the craft. And then he gave
her hypnosis. Five tapes of abductions, beginning when she was
three years old.

You know what happened next? She joined the Air Force. She's been
in the Air Force maybe about six months and they come out with
handcuffs and a straitjacket and carry her off, to a mental
hospital. Now she claims that somebody somewhere sent one of the
tapes of her hypnosis to the Air Force. I doubt it. I think if
they'd sent the tapes, they would have just called her in and
questioned her. I think she was really bizarre. She's been
hallucinating ever since. She's even married to an alien now.
She's had two foetuses taken. She can't get a job and keep it.
She doesn't get along with anybody. She wrote a little booklet,
but nobody'll touch it because it's exactly what everybody else
is saying!...


Read more of the words of the first abductee in Fortean Times
110, on sale now!






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   Apr > Apr 14

                    Re: Re: The New Mars Facial Structure

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 00:46:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:38:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Re: The New Mars Facial Structure


>Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:35:50 -0400
>From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The New Mars Facial Structure

<snip>

>I suggest that one problem with the current data set will be that
>the viewing angles of the Viking and Surveyor images are quite
>different and that no amount of modeling will be able to account
>for that difference.

>Thanks again for the clarification.

>Gary

Actually the difference in viewing angles and lighting should be
no (or only a little) problem for modern software once a 3-D
model of the face is built from the newest data. Carlatto made a
3-D model using the old data. Now he can make a new, more
accurate model.





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               Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 00:46:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:34:33 -0400
Subject: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

>Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:40:35 -0700
>From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

>Theresa Carlson wrote:

>> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 05:39:07 -0400
>> From: Theresa Carlson <Tcarlson1@compuserve.com>
>> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs
>> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

><major snip>

>> And if there are any people on this list that are familiar with
>> digital video making and editing you'll understand this. The
>> buildings and foreground clutter in this video form a perfect
>> travelling matte.  My guess is some one had already done some
>> chroma, luma, or other color or alpha channel keying on it.  Not
>> one of the experts mentioned that.  The UFO stays relatively in
>> the same place, with only slight movement in left, right, up, and
>> down directions.  And the buildings just pass in front of it. The
>> UFO never passes in front of anything. An absolutely simple
>> illusion to create.

><snip>

>This is an excellent observation.  Only someone familiar with SFX
>would see this; but, now that you point it out, the contrast
>between the buildings and the sky make creating the matte a
>breeze.>

>I'll tell you what bothers me about the video.  We never see the
>saucer leave the site.  Now, it is possible that it zipped away
>toward the horizon just opposite the camera; but, the odds of
>this are slim.  And before anyone says that the cameraman simply
>stopped filming at that point, ask yourself:  You're taping one
>of the most historic scenes in history -- wouldn't you wanna
>catch the saucer's exit?

>I know this is all just circumstantial evidence; but, it sure
>makes it hard to have faith in the veracity of the vid.

I guess you have't read my article in the MUFON Journal (april).

Measurements of th angular size (image size) of the UO
(unidentified object) show that it is constant until a couple of
seconds before it disappears the second time behind the higher
building. If the image size is interpreted as being inversely
proportional to the distance (a logical assumption) then it
maintain nearly a constant distance for most of the time
(probably traveled along a straight or nearly straight track
perpendicular to the camera field of view) and then moved away
rapidly.

IN fact, the data suggest an acceleration as the object abruptly
turned to its left. Obviously such an effect could be
synthesized... assuming the nasty synthesizer would think of
it...I might point out that this video is being analyzed almost
pixel by pixel.......






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   Apr > Apr 14

                       Re: Strieber On Father Balducci

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 07:46:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:48:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Strieber On Father Balducci

>Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:31:54 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John <jvif@spacelab.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Strieber On Father Balducci


>It is _painful_ posts such as these that make me rue the day I
>'came out' publicly as an abductee. These guys are an
>embarassment. I almost hate to respond to  because it's always
>interpreted as one "camps" opinion about another "camp." I just
>can't let garbage like this go by unflagged though. Please, do
>not interpret my opinions as "in-house fighting" or more
>ufologists feeding and tearing apart other ufologists.

>That is _not_ where I'm coming from at all.

>John Velez- comments to follow. Read on at your own risk.

<snip>


>John Velez, (speaking for myself)

Yo, Bro John.

ROFLMAO!

Talk about hitting the nail on the head.

Why this is just the perfect time to mention our Beyond Roswell
CD ROM on sale now at better CD vendors everywhere.  You will
find Msgr Balducci prominent in his lack of mention in our
appendix.

Bob







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   Apr > Apr 14

                  Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 00:47:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:42:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic


>Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:06:13 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic

<snip>

>I find Hoagland's desperate attempts to cling to his fantasy
>depressing.  The man just can't let go.>

>Anyone who works in digital imaging knows that 256 shades of
>gray just represents the maximum number of shades available.
>A very large number of images I work with day in and day out
>have fewer shades of gray.  That is NOT missing data.  It is
>missing shades of gray, nothing more, and is related to image
>contrast.  If you want 256 shades of gray in the image, it
>is simple in Adobe PhotoShop or most any other high-end imaging
>program to adjust the contrast to give you as many shades of
>gray as you want.

>Why does an image have fewer shades of gray?  Because of low
>subject contrast in most cases.  What controls subject
>contrast?  Well things like angle and diffusion of light.  We
>are told by NASA/JPL that there was some cloud cover when the
i>mage was shot.  Guess what folks?  Yep, cloud cover reduces
>contrast, both by lowering the contrast of the light striking
t>he surface, and by lowering it again when the image forming
>light passes through the clouds again on its way to the orbiting
>camera.  This is all Photo 101 stuff, folks.  This is not
>rocket science!

Bob,

Until we know what the INTRINSIC maximum contrast ratio or max.
brightness level over min brightness level is, we can't tell
whether or not "shades of grey" are missing. If the albedo ratio
of the surface (maximum reflectuion factor/minimum reflection
factor) and the illumination ratio (maximum illumination/minimum
illumination) are known we can't determine what the maximum
brightness scale should be.

The spacecraft electronics were set to give 256 levels, we are
told, presumably under the assumption that the maximum brightness
would be some value and the minimum wuld be some other value
(perhaps "black" or the noise level of th electronics). If the
intrinsic brightness ratio (maximum albedo times maximum
illumination /minimum albedo times minimum illuminatio) is less
than 256 to 1, then... so be it!  There will then be less than
256 shades of grey.

Of course, in principle (perhaps not easily in practice) they
could readjust the amplitude per step (the gradations or "quantum
jumps" in brightness) to make 256 levels out of virtually any
brightness ratio. Evidently they didn't do that, however.





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   Apr > Apr 14

                         Re: Yorkshire, UK UFO crash

From: Rob Irving <RobIrving@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:36:47 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:50:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Yorkshire, UK UFO crash


> From: "Jon" <jon@wibble.powernet.co.uk> [Jonathan Dyton]
>  To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>  Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Yorkshire, UK UFO crash
>  Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 21:15:23 +0100

Greetings Jon,

Re: Mexican Wave article.

>  The article didn't (because of space restrictions I assume) go into
>  much depth ,nor did it tackle any of the well known cases. lets
>  face it, if your going to rip Mexico to shreds, then start with that
>  case, where 4 people have filmed the same thing, not a bunch of
>  obscure easily solved cases, who's importance has been pumped
>  up.

I wonder if you and David are talking about the same article? The
one I wrote (Fortean Times #109 4/98) focussed on an event
recorded by many more than four people (more like twelve).  In
fact, the July 1991 'event', featuring Venus, Mars, Regulus and
Sirius, during the eclipse, was what initiated the subsequent
flap - a sensible one to focus on, it seems to me, and hardly
"obscure" by any stretch of the imagination.

Anyway, the article was more to do with the perils of
identification by video analysis, upon which the entire Mexico
City furor is based, than any attempt at a comprehensive history
of individual sightings.  You're right, if I had been interested
in doing that I would have been limited by space restrictions.

Rob






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                         Former Canadian PM on UFOs

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 19:18:50 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:14:52 -0400
Subject: Former Canadian PM on UFOs

Hi Errol,

In your last personal e-mail to me, you ended with the sentence
"Lester Pearson would be proud.". I'd like to share the following
bit of information below about this past Prime Minister with
you.

Quoting from a photocopied paged of a library book (title?), we
learn that that Canadians were ahead of their time with regards
to understanding UFOs. This seems to fit well with some NRC
documents with the signatures of Canada's top scientists which I
photocopied in Ottawa who were members of a newly formed group,
the 1952 Canadian Space Travel Planning Committee or Ottawa
Interplanetary Society - a full 9 years before the first human
spaceflight.  A logo of a flying saucer was used at the top of
their attendance sheet. Dr. Stedman, a member of this committe,
even detailed how a flying saucer like the one flown by the
"saucerians" can be built (I was not allowed to photocopy this
technical document, now part of University of Ottawa's UFO
collection).

[quote]

Lester B. Pearson, the United Nations diplomat who later became
Prime Minister of Canada, gave expression to the fear in the
1950s that was focused on the skies and on outer space. In his
Nobel Prize acceptance speech, delivered in Oslo, Norway, 11 Dec.
1957, Pearson made the following observation:

Perhaps there is a hopeful possibility here in the conquest of
outer space. Interplanetary activity may well give us planetary
peace. Once we discover Martian spaceships hovering over Earth's
air-space, we will all come together. "How dare they threaten us
like this!" we shall shout, as one, at a really United Nations!

[EOQ]

Three decades later U.S. President Ronald Reagan expressed a
similar sentiment to Soviet Premier Mikhail Gorbachev with
respect to the "Star Wars" defence initiative.

You may share this information with the UFO UpDates list members
for their comments if you like.

Bye for now. Nick Balaskas






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                      Re: The New Mars Facial Structure

From: butcherbr@dmps.des-moines.k12.ia.us (Bryan Butcher)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:28:08 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:46:39 -0400
Subject: Re: The New Mars Facial Structure

> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 00:46:59 -0400
> From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: The New Mars Facial Structure
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> Actually the difference in viewing angles and lighting should be
> no (or only a little) problem for modern software once a 3-D
> model of the face is built from the newest data. Carlatto made a
> 3-D model using the old data. Now he can make a new, more
> accurate model.


Bruce...

Mark Carlotto has released his preliminary analysis of the new
face, there is a 3-d model extracted from combining Viking and
MGS data.

http://www.psrw.com/~markc/marshome.html

cheers,
Bryan Butcher
send personal replies to being@concentric.net





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   Apr > Apr 14

                     Re: Nua Blather: Pretty Good Friday

From: glennys mackay <glenmack@thehub.com.au>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 02:54:27 +1000
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:18:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Nua Blather: Pretty Good Friday


>*******************************************************************
>April 10th 1998  Published By:  Nua Limited  Vol 1. No. 48
>*******************************************************************


>PRETTY GOOD FRIDAY

You may be interested to know that BRISBANE IS THE CAPITAL OF
QUEENSLAND NOT NORTHERN TERRITORY - this is where Pine Gap is,
which is run by the Americans - could be confused -  at the
thought of those stationed deep under ground, could pop up as a
bunch of garden gnomes when not on duty - could be the new spy
system - the mind boggles at the thought Headlines "  Pine Gap
gnomes go AWOL - searching for Snow White.,< :) >








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                               Re: Cydonianism

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:18:31 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:27:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Cydonianism

> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 12:54:05 -0700 (PDT)
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
> Subject: Re: Cydonianism

> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Catholicism vs. Cydoniaism
> >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
> >Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 00:05:19 -0400
> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> >Re: your comments on the inselberg - yes, unfortunately, the
> >resemblance is not exact. However, an exact likeness was not to
> >be expected, since there was no more than one photo on the web of
> >an inselberg, none taken from orbit, and, furthermore, as I've
> >mentioned before, Martian geology is significantly different from
> >terrestrial geology.

> Certainly not to be expected, no.  It is precisely the
> inselberg's lack of extreme regularity of outline, probable lack
> of good symmetry, etc., that causes it not to have any appearance
> of artificiality.

Actually, it is impossible from that photo to determine the level
of regularity of its outline. It is likely as symmetrical as the
Face (which isn't very, despite the claims that it is).

As I mention, we suffer from the disadvantage of not seeing this
feature from orbit.

>>As I look at the images longer, the more they look like a
>>volcanic shield which experienced a fairly common differential
>>erosion. The revealed structure may actually be the lava filled
>>volcanic pipes and vents, which formed underneath a cover of
>>thinner (and softer) lava and ash deposits which have
>>subsequently been worn away.

>But of course no volcano would have straight sides where it
>intersects the surrounding plains, with those sides very
>gradually merging into a more expected curved shape at the
>"chin," but quickly merging into a curve of larger radius at the
>"top of the head," while overall exhibiting good "lateral"
> symmetry as well.

Actually, any volcano which forms on a linear fault can have a
fairly extended linear structure. And volcanos are almost always
symmetrical, by their very nature.

Synclines and anticlines are linear and are also symmetrical
around their centers.

Also, many mountain ridges are linear and also possess symmetry.

Finally, as for symmetry, the Face shown in the MGS images is not
all that symmetrical. It is certainly no more symmetrical than
typical earthly fault uplift mountains.

Furthermore, you ignore the nature of the inselberg formation
process, which is the erosion of a surrounding deposition plain
until the inselberg is revealed. Such a process typically results
is a fairly startling difference in relief between the inselberg
and the surrounding plains.

> And the odds are extremely poor that the upper two-thirds of the
> "volcano" would erode away down to a uniform height all around,
> and at that height the odds are again poor that the "volcanic"
> interior next to an eroded top would have filled up to the same
> height all around, leaving the congruent trench-like edge to the
> shape of the inner "pedestal."  And the odds of no lava from a
> volcano having spilled over the edge somewhere and produced
> lateral asymmetry of the edge need to be taken into account. The
> symmetrically placed rectilinear features of the "headdress," as
> Van Flandern calls it, should also enter into the calculation of
> the odds; this feature had not been visible in the 1976 images.

> It's the consideration of the combined mathematical odds against
> any such scenario occurring naturally, Mark, that keeps the
> artificiality hypothesis very much alive.

Again we have the "odds" which started this exchange. I suspect a
misuse of statistics. Against what are these odds based?
Knowledge of geologically similar landforms? Observation of
Martian landforms?

But, at any rate, here's a hypothetical mechanism that can
explain the appearance of the Face as we see it in MGS:

1) A fissure opens in the plain. Being linear, the lava it emits
piles up in a sort of pup-tent appearance.

2) The volcano, in addition to lava, later emits a variety of ash
deposits and pyroclastic lava bombs, which make much of its
surface a less resistant material than the interior.

3) The volcano is partly buried by a plains forming event.
This material remains stable for a very long period of time,
during which natural erosion removes much of the less resistant
material from the exposed portion of the volcano. What is
revealed are harder, slow cooled, lava reservoirs and pipes.

4) A climate change or some geological event increases the rate
of erosion on the plains material. Or perhaps the plains material
is a softer substrate covered by a harder crust, and the crust
finally completes its erosion. At any rate, the lower section of
the volcano is revealed, and is not as eroded as the upper
section, due to protection by the plains material.

Such a scenario represents what seems to me to be a very likely
explanation for the Face geology. One can see that the edges of
the erosion on the landform have a two layered structure, which
fits well with a volcanic origin, where multiple eruptions
frequently result in several layers of differing hardness and
consistency.
Furthermore, the upper edges of that material are quite ragged
and irregular, indicating a natural process of erosion on a
single sheet of material rather than the collapse of a structure
made of blocks or other building material units.

Note that the internal structure of the Face shows none of the
hallmarks of artificiality, including straight lines, rectangular
shapes, connected linear shapes, indications of components, etc.

All of those are visible on orbital or aerial photos of
terrestrial ruins.

I suspect that if the Viking Face images had never been hyped, no
one, would contend that the MGS image represented anything but a
normal Martian landform.

> >A stunning example of this sort of thing affecting the area near
> >Amphitrites Patera (a very flat volcano with extremely fluid lava
> >flows) can be seen in Viking frame 578B01, where it modifies an
> >impact crater and some hills.

> Is this available somewhere on the web?

Try a web search, or refer to "The Surface of Mars"
(Carr, ISBN 0-300-03242-0)

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront/
------






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                         Re: Yorkshire, UK UFO crash

From: Mick Ibbotson <miki@globalnet.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:24:54 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:31:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Yorkshire, UK UFO crash

In response to David Clarkes recent postings.....

>As for proof of who was flying the aircraft - it's not my job to
>discover who was responsible, that's for the authorities. What we
>have proved is there WAS an aircraft, or aircrafts. That is
>sufficient to solve this case.

As you have stated it is now 99%+ likely it was the MoD. My first
impressions of the 'light aircraft' theory that it was more
likely smugglers - the drug trade in Britain is big and by using
a light aircraft to ferry supplies from Europe they can escape
detection by flying low and most really light aircraft can land
in ordinary flat fields, plus the fact they are unlikely to log
their flight plans means there would be no record.....

>As for the loony theories about a UFO shooting down an RAF
>fighter - do they really believe a Tornado fighter could crash
>into a reservoir just 15 miles from one of Britain's biggest
>cities and all traces of that crash, including two bodies, be
>removed right under the noses of 141 civilian mountain rescue
>team searchers without anyone noticing?

I heard that the searchers were actually looking in the wrong
place - another rumour, in order to give the MoD time to remove
the evidence. But I think you are right if a Tornado did come
down the whole area would have heard it....and the whole area
would have been sealed off...

>But how many of these people know anything about the geography of
>this area - and how many have spoken to the mountain rescue, fire
>and police officers involved?  I live just 5 miles from this
>crash zone, know the area very well, and can assure you hundreds
>of people would know about a crash if it had happened. No one
>does, other than two ET believers.

I know the area quite well and can only agree you on this.
However it is possible that everyone in the area was out that
evening - highly unlikely but one for the 'believers' to hang
onto - either that or they have been got at.....

>I also fear you have misinterpreted what I said about the
>videotape of the light aircraft taken in Sheffield that night. No
>one, least of all the people who filmed tthe video footage, ever
>claimed it showed a UFO. They came forward with the video after
>hearing radio reports about the search for a crashed aircraft,
>and thought the airplane they had captured on camcorder that same
>night might be the one involved.

I've seen the video footage - it was not very good quality nor
did it give any indication of being anything other that a light
aircraft...

>My point here is that if a light aircraft can appear to look like
>a triangle, and we know that people claim to have seen a UFO
>looking like a triangle that very same night, then it is surely
>logical to conclude these people saw an aircraft too, not a
>triangular shaped UFO. Anything else and we are in bonkers
>territory.

Couldn't agree more.....in overview, its sad when it turns out to
be just a conventional aircraft but as 99% of all sightings are
explained away this way, simply a fact of life.

Mick
Member of YUFOS
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mick Ibbotson            F.B.B. http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~miki/fbb.htm
miki@globalnet.co.uk   YUFOS
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~miki/yufos.htm
micki@hcsl.co.uk                               H.C.S.L. http ://www.hcsl.co.uk
------------------------------------------------------------------------------







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                  Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:45:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:08:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic

>Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 00:47:26 -0400
>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Mars Face Pic
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>Bob,

>Until we know what the INTRINSIC maximum contrast ratio or max.
>brightness level over min brightness level is, we can't tell
>whether or not "shades of grey" are missing. If the albedo ratio
>of the surface (maximum reflectuion factor/minimum reflection
>factor) and the illumination ratio (maximum illumination/minimum
>illumination) are known we can't determine what the maximum
>brightness scale should be.

>The spacecraft electronics were set to give 256 levels, we are
>told, presumably under the assumption that the maximum brightness
>would be some value and the minimum wuld be some other value
>(perhaps "black" or the noise level of th electronics). If the
>intrinsic brightness ratio (maximum albedo times maximum
>illumination /minimum albedo times minimum illuminatio) is less
>than 256 to 1, then... so be it!  There will then be less than
>256 shades of grey.

>Of course, in principle (perhaps not easily in practice) they
>could readjust the amplitude per step (the gradations or "quantum
>jumps" in brightness) to make 256 levels out of virtually any
>brightness ratio. Evidently they didn't do that, however.


Bruce,

I was not aiming my simplified statements at experts like yourself,
but to the educated layperson trying to make sense of this.

Apparently they had the camera set for low contrast, based on their
latest statements, so as not to lose highlight detail.  That makes
good sense.

I'm just trying to get across to people who don't know imaging
that just because a camera CAN record 256, or any number, of shades
of gray, that doesn't mean it always WILL or MUST do so.

Hoagland's original statements sounded like he was saying that
since the camera could record 256 shades of gray, that many shades
should be in the image, and if they weren't all there somebody
took 'em.  That's what I was ranting against.  Hoagland's statement,
if reported accuratly, is simple nonsense, and I would hope he
knows it.

Bob








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               PROJECT-1947: Rendlesham - Refutation Refuted?

From: James Easton <pulsar@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 22:09:50 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:35:57 -0400
Subject: PROJECT-1947: Rendlesham - Refutation Refuted?

Regarding...

>Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 13:54:58 PDT
>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@FRONTIERNET.NET>
>Subject: Rendlesham: refutation refuted?

Jerry wrote:

>I hold no particular brief for Rendlesham, and I commend Mr. Easton
>for trying to make sense of it, and he has brought forward
>information we need to know.  I do, however, object to this list's
>effort now to declare the case closed.


Jerry,

I haven't seen any intention to certify the 'case closed', quite
the opposite. Any contributions I have made in unravelling fact
from fiction are in need of a corresponding response, which, as I
have implored on more than one occasion would be most welcome.

It's almost to the day _six months_ since I first asked sources
in the US who were colleagues of those who had contact with Halt,
if the questions arising from my research could be put to Halt
and ideally also Penniston.

I fully appreciated this was asking a great deal and explored
several other possible avenues, e.g., via Salley Rayl and Diana
Botsford, who had both been instrumental in the most recent
'Project: watchfire' on- line interviews with Halt and
Penniston.

All to no avail.

Jenny's article won't provide those answers and I doubt that
Halt's book will be anything other than a recapitulation of all
that has gone before.


It's therefore a situation where the obvious explanation, as
suggested by the more insightful evidence now available, is being
accepted by many people as a de facto resolution of the case.

This was the point of my previous posting and a last appeal for
any evidence to the contrary.

>Those not rushing to judgment will want to read (1) Jenny Randles'
>courteous, respectful, but effective dissent from Mr. Easton (to
>appear in IUR this summer)

I think it will be found that Jenny does not dispute any of the
factual evidence contained in 'Rendlesham Unravelled'.

I know her main concern is that she queries whether Burroughs and
Penniston may initially have 'underplayed' the full story,
however that's a separate argument and one which may be difficult
to maintain in the light of some further evidence, which Jenny
isn't yet fully aware of, although I did indicate it existed.

We have also discussed other aspects to the case which it's
absolutely agreed are 'loose ends', however, these are
comparatively of less importance than the main issues.


However, we can be optimistic that these central issues can be
addressed as they consist of the most straight-forward
questions.

What then should the response be of those who are in a position
to at least ask of Col. Halt if he would comment on the
considerable anomalies which are so evident?

Why was it was never revealed, until recently otherwise
disclosed, that the Orford Ness lighthouse was _known_ to have
been, at least, a deceptive factor, or why he claimed that
Burroughs, Cabansag and Penniston all reported they had seen a
metallic, triangular-shaped object, when apparently only
Penniston did, or why Penniston's later story bears little
resemblance to what we only now realise was documented at the
time, etc.?

Neither Halt, Penniston or anyone else is of course obliged to
answer these questions (perhaps Penniston might, if further
efforts were made to contact him).


So, where does that leave the case and who should the focus be on
for the next positive move?


The bottom line is that if we take a step back and look at the
'Rendlesham Forest' case as evidence of a possible ET contact,
it's currently shot full of more holes than the Green Bay
defence. ;)


Nothing else to be said, really.



James.
E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
WWW: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pulsar/





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                       CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS: Rendlesham

From: slk <slk@EVANSVILLE.NET> [Francis Ridge]
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:23:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:21:36 -0400
Subject: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS: Rendlesham

Greetings List Members & Jim Easton,

In the last week I've had hundreds of emails each day, so I have
to let a lot of my responses simply go. But I wanted to address
this one, for the benefit of UFOlogy and good relations with
colleagues.

Jim, I have always been uncomfortable with cases like the
Rendlesham Forest Incident. To me it's like a cup without a
handle. Like Mark Cashman, I have trouble finding enought to
retell the story. I certainly would not use this case in a
briefing report. So, how did I get into this mess? I don't know
everything about the UFO subject, even though I've spent going on
38 years (out of 55) working feverishly on the subject. So I have
a group of advisers whom I consult when I get in a pinch. These
guys have a great track record and know the UFO subject very
well, also. They don't consider the subject of Rendlesham closed
until Haut comments, but that may or may not help matters.

What is important, I just wanted to tell you that we all
appreciate your research efforts (even if we don't always agree)
and wish you the very best. One of the reasons I may have
responded so briefly in the past is that, in dealing with people
I don't know, I often suspect I'm dealing with closed-minded
skeptics who feel they have an explanation for all sightings.
I can handle explanations for 90-95%, because I've learned that
it's the truth.

Brad Sparks has done some great work, too, on the
Trent/McMinnville photo case, along with finding valuable new
information on the RB-47 case.

There are a lot of good cases out there without quibbling over
ones we can hardly define. Here's to you and your efforts.

Francis Ridge
NICAP Site Coordinator





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                 Why Cydonia Image is Only 1024 pixels Wide

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:35:58 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:35:58 -0400
Subject: Why Cydonia Image is Only 1024 pixels Wide





From: http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/msss/camera/images/size_of_image.html


Mars Global Surveyor
Mars Orbiter Camera

Why is the image of Cydonia only 1024 pixels wide?

This question has been asked a great deal over the past few days.
The field-of-view of the MOC is 0.44=B0, and at the range of the
Cydonia image, this translated to about 3.1 km (1.9 miles). The
viewing angle was about 45=B0, so the projected width of the field
was about 4.4 km (3 mi). The narrow angle detector is 2048 pixels
across, so the intrinsic resolution was about 2.1 m/pixel. The
maximum images size (in bytes) is 9.8 MBytes, or 2048 X 4800
pixels. At 2.1 m/pixel, this permitted a down-track field of view
of 11 km. Considering the uncertainties in pointing of the
spacecraft, this 11 km downtrack dimension was considered
insufficient to insure a reasonable chance of hitting the
target.

There are two ways of extending the downtrack dimension. First,
we can use "lossless" compression to extend the distance by a
factor of about 1.8. We do this with most of the MOC images.
However, losses within the communication system occasionally
create black bands (accounting for the loss of about 7-15% of the
data) through the images. The MGS Project felt such losses would
not be tolerable in the Cydonia images. The second way to
increase downtrack dimension is to decrease resolution. If you
sum the pixels two by two (that is, replace four pixels--two
across by two down--with the average of the four), you can extend
the image downtrack by a factor of four. This then changes the
dimensions of the image from 2048 X 4800 to 1024 X 9600, and the
images covers the same 4.8 km width but extends somewhat over 44
km downtrack. The resolution is lower (4.3 m/pixel vs. 2.1
m/pixel), but the image covers much more ground.

Since this resolution was still substantially better than the
best Viking image (by about a factor of ten), the Project decided
this was the best compromise in coverage and protection against
data loss.





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                       Re: Former Canadian PM on UFOs

From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:04:04 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:23:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Former Canadian PM on UFOs


> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 19:18:50 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
> From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: UFOs and famous Canadians

> Hi Errol,

> In your last personal e-mail to me, you ended with the sentence
> "Lester Pearson would be proud.". I'd like to share the following
> bit of information below about this past Prime Minister with
> you.


Errol, are you holding something out re Pearson?:-)

[Nope. Merely complimented Nick on his work on a MUFON
 Ontario project and said ".....Pearson would be proud."
 The Report eventually will out -- ebk]

Also Nick, interesting stuff below. Were you fellows also aware
of Pearson's involvement as a courier during WWII for Intrepid?

> A logo of a flying saucer was used at the top of
> their attendance sheet. Dr. Stedman, a member of this committe,
> even detailed how a flying saucer like the one flown by the
> "saucerians" can be built (I was not allowed to photocopy this
> technical document, now part of University of Ottawa's UFO
> collection).

Tell me more, particularly U.of O's refusal to let you copy Dr.
Stedman's documents.

Don Ledger






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                   Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:54:33 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 18:45:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic

>Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 12:54:08 -0700 (PDT)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic

>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Hoagland's Rebuttal of Cydonia Pic
>>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>>Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 23:36:16 -0400
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>Actually, the histogram results as stated don't actually show
>>that. The statement was only 70 or 80 shades of grey were used
>>instead of 256. The 70 or 80 shades could include black and
>>white. But a look at the image shows that the incoming data is
>>low contrast.

>>There are a number of possible reasons:

>>1) Atmospheric aerosols
>>2) Suspended dust

>Actually, these two are the same for Mars.

Actually, they aren't quite the same. Suspended aerosols
typically would be considered to include water ice, CO2 ice, and
very fine dust particles with indefinitely long suspension in the
atmosphere, while suspended dust would be contributed by dust
storm type activity and less thick dust convection from the
surface.

I am not aware of the conditions at the time of the imaging, but
was only attempting to supply a reasonably exhaustive
non-conspiratorial list of possible causes.

>>3) Atmospheric moisture

>By this you would mean clouds, since water vapor is transparent.
>I commented on the problem with the thin, invisible cloud-sheet
>hypothesis earlier. In one of Ron Baalkes's communiques he
>mentioned that a thick cloud layer did lie over a different
>region of Mars (Utopia Planitia), but this caused an obvious
>brightness saturation problem.

Not exactly. Atmospheric moisture need not condense into clouds
to reduce contrast through light absorption and scattering,
particularly when combined with a low sun angle, which causes the
sunlight to become more attenuated due to the thickness of
atmosphere to be traversed.

>>4) Very low sun angle

>Actually, a 25-degree solar elevation, or even lower, seems
>pretty optimal to me to show up shadows and differences in albedo
>well, which an overhead sun wouldn't do.  Yet 25 degrees isn't so
>low as to accentuate dust or haze very much.

It certainly is not a bad sun angle, but, again, I was simply
trying to provide a fairly exhaustive list.

Cliffs and steep rises, however, can contribute contrast reducing
shadows, even at 25 degrees.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront/
------






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                    October's UFO Conference In Hong Kong

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 01:31:03 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:01:47 -0400
Subject: October's UFO Conference In Hong Kong

From: South China Morning Post's internet edition:

http://www.scmp.com/news/template/templates.idc?artid=3D19980414003902056&
top=3Dhk&template=3Dhk.htx&maxfieldsize=3D1557

*******


Tuesday April 14, 1998


'Alien abductee' to beam down to Asia UFO summit


ANNE STEWART


An alleged alien abductee and mainland spacecraft spotters will be the
star attractions at Asia's first UFO conference in Hong Kong later this
year.

Organised by the Hong Kong UFO Club, the meetings will feature video
footage of what are believed to be unidentified flying objects.

Experts, including a Japanese man who claims to have been abducted by
aliens, will give talks. A 10-member team headed by Sun Shi-ling will
brief delegates on sightings over the mainland.

Club committee member Henry Chen Yun-hai, 26, said the 700-member club
was not expecting opposition from Christian groups.

However, he said the Hong Kong Chinese Christian Churches Union had
once described having an interest in UFOs as "evil".

Mr Chen, a UFO enthusiast since he was five, said he believed
Christianity and an interest in UFOs were not mutually exclusive.

"I spoke to a bible teacher once who said if you believe in God, you
can believe he created the universe and he also created aliens," he
said.

Many UFOs had been spotted over Hong Kong, from Shamshuipo to Lamma, Mr
Chen said.

Vatican spokesman Monsignor Corrado Balducci recently prompted a UFO
debate in the Catholic Church after saying there was definitely
extra-terrestrial life.

Father Luke Tsui Kam-yiu, of the Catholic Institute for Religion and
Society, said he was not aware if the church had any opposition to a
belief in extra-terrestrials or to the UFO Club's conference.

The conference will be held from October 23 to 28 at a venue to be
announced.


Archived Stories:

*Preachers take on alien beliefs


Copyright =A91998 South China Morning Post Publishers Ltd.
All Rights Reserved.





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              Report From The "Life In The Universe Conference"

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 01:38:48 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:09:38 -0400
Subject: Report From The "Life In The Universe Conference"

>From the San Francisco Examiner via the Nando Times. URL:

http://www.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/health/041498/health8_4021_noframes.ht
ml

*******


Scientists study radio signals for signs of life out there


Copyright =A91998 Nando.net
Copyright =A91998 Scripps Howard


BERKELEY, Calif. (April 14, 1998 08:43 a.m. EDT http://www.nando.net)
-- At this instant, radio signals from alien worlds might be passing
through our atmosphere, through your home, through your very body.

Earthbound scientists hope to develop receivers "smart" enough to sense
these faint messages messages from planets trillions of miles away.

Almost four decades after astronomer Frank Drake launched the quest for
alien radio signals, the search continues in once unimagined ways,
scientists said at a recent seminar at Lawrence Hall of Science, ways
that include:


*Computers so smart and fast that they scan billions of celestial radio
frequencies simultaneously, seeking just one that resembles an alien
communique.


*Alien-detecting radiotelescope dishes the size of Volkswagens,
operated by amateur enthusiasts and united in globe-girdling "arrays"
that would monitor the entire sky 24 hours a day.


*Space telescopes, still on the drawing board, that might scan distant
star systems for potentially life-bearing planets -- perhaps
bluish-green, icecap-peaked, Earth-like worlds whose blurry mug shots
may make front pages before today's youngsters are middle-aged.


In what at times resembled an intellectual PTA meeting, an enthusiastic
audience of about 150, ranging from Berkeley scientists to parents with
kids, attended the "Life in the Universe Conference" sponsored by the
Astronomical Association of Northern California and the Lawrence Hall
of Science. The topics discussed also included the possibility of
prehistoric microbial life on Mars.

Since the mid-1990s, scientists seeking out alien life have been
thrilled by repeated discoveries of planets that orbit other stars.
Previously, skeptics had argued that our solar system is a galactic
freak, and that almost all other stars are planetless and, hence,
lifeless.

In reality, "planets are aands for Search for Extraterrestrial
Intelligence.

Consequently, "'E.T.' has plenty of 'homes' to phone home to," joked
Shostak, who has a doctorate in astronomy from Caltech. His book on
SETI, "Sharing the Universe," was recently published by Berkeley Hills
Books of Berkeley.

Shostak estimates that one to 10 billion -- that's right, billion with
a "b" -- Earth-like planets might swarm throughout the Milky Way
galaxy. The galaxy is a vaguely pinwheel-shaped city of several hundred
billion stars. The entire universe contains roughly 100 billion
galaxies.

Jill Tarter, project director of the SETI Institute's Project Phoenix,
described how she and her colleagues are searching for alien signals
from about 1,000 nearby stars with radiotelescopes in West Virginia and
Georgia.

The radiotelescopes detect natural radio "noise" from across the
cosmos. Then the signals are scanned by high-speed computers trillions
of times faster than anything at Drake's disposal when he first started
looking for alien messages while working at a Green Bank, W.Va.,
radiotelescope in1960.

The computers are programmed to look for unusual events -- say, a
continuous sound like a beacon from a civilization that is trying to
call attention to itself.

Likewise, aliens with radiotelescopes might detect television signals
from Earth, said Dan Werthimer, director of a SETI project based at
UC-Berkeley's Space Sciences Laboratory.

In terms of the intensity of television wavelength emissions, "the
Earth is now 'brighter' than the sun," Werthimer said.

Tarter referred favorably to one private group's efforts to enlist
amateur observers in the SETI search. Using converted satellite dishes,
thousands of amateurs could scan the skies for alien messages. Such
comprehensive coverage of the sky might make it easier to detect
transient signals from aliens whose beacons aren't switched on full
time, Tarter said.

Is SETI a waste of time? Skeptical evolutionary biologists argue that
the emergence of intelligent life on Earth was a chance event so chancy
that it's unlikely to be repeated elsewhere.

Even if the galaxy is jammed with intelligent creatures, intelligence
may tend to emerge only for brief periods. That's because, according to
pessimists, intelligent beings tend to self-destruct -- say, by
inventing nuclear weapons or spoiling their planetary environments.

If that's true, then humans may have no one else to talk to in the
entire galaxy, at least at the moment. The Milky Way galaxy may be a
wasteland of dead civilizations buried in their own toxic waste and
radioactive ashes.

Shostak is more optimistic. He recently proposed that civilizations
typically pass through a bottleneck in time lasting a few centuries
during which they are capable of total self-destruction. For humans,
that period began in 1945, with the development of atomic weapons.

But as humans showed during the last half-century, a society that can
build nuclear weapons can also launch spaceships to the stars. Perhaps
within a century or so, humans will settle other worlds in our solar
system. Future inhabitants of the moon, Mars and other worlds will
perpetuate the species -- and, perhaps, communicate with aliens
regardless of Earth's fate.

"I can get rid of the ants in my back yard, but I can't get rid of all
ants everywhere because they're dispersed (around Earth)," Shostak
explained. Likewise, "I can imagine a future where a couple is living
on Mars. The guy looks at his newspaper and says, 'Gee Marge, look:
NUCLEAR WAR ON EARTH, EVERYBODY DEAD.' 'Gee,"' Marge says, 'that's too
bad.' "


By KEAY DAVIDSON, San Francisco Examiner

Copyright =A91998 Nando.net
Do you have some feedback for the Nando Times staff? (Link)





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   Apr > Apr 15

                       Re: Former Canadian PM on UFOs

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 20:39:35 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:03:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Former Canadian PM on UFOs

> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:04:04 +0100
> From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Former Canadian PM on UFOs

<snip>

> Tell me more, particularly U.of O's refusal to let you copy Dr.
> Stedman's documents.

> Don Ledger

Hi Don,

Dr. D.F. Stedman was with the Applied Chemistry Branch of the
National Research Council of Canada.  In 1952 Dr. Stedman
submitted a highly technical 46 page bound draft document titled
"Synopsis Report On Atom Models" which detailed how antigravity
worked and explained how "saucerians" used this technology in
their flying saucers.  Someone who had read this document has
penciled in comments that certain items cannot be mentioned.
This document is "Publication reserved" and I could not get
permission to have it photocopied from the librarian at the
University of Ottawa Archives and Special Collections (ARCS).
It can be found in ARC 94-2, BOX 2, FILE: 3 and is part of the
Arthur Bray's extensive UFO collection.

Quoting from Arthur Bray's 1979 book, "The UFO Connection" (from
an autographed copy of my own), you may also be interested in
this bit of UFO history.

<Quote>

In August 1970, U Thant visited Ottawa to open the International
Congress of World Federalist.  During this visit he was
interviewed briefly by Mrs. I. V. Jacobi, a UFO reporter for an
international organization.  One of her questions was:

Your Excellency, UFO researchers the world over know that you
are kept well informed on the possibility that extraterrestrial
spacecraft do visit our planet but these facts are classified
to the world public.  Is this correct?

The same source reported that the Secretary-General nodded
a hesitating yes and said "There are many things that I am
forbidden to speak of".

<EOQ>

Maybe the major world political leader that Bud Hopkins refers
to in his book "Witnessed" was not the first Secretary-General
of the U.N. with intimate knowledge of UFOs.

Errol and I may know of some other high profile people with
inside knowledge of UFOs but probably not as many as Dr. Greer
of CSETI has managed to find. ;)

Nick Balaskas









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   Apr > Apr 15

                               Re: Cydonianism

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 18:02:03 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:58:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Cydonianism

>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Cydonianism [was Re: Catholicism vs.Cydoniaism)
>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:18:31 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>[...]
>Actually, any volcano which forms on a linear fault can have a
>fairly extended linear structure. And volcanos are almost always
>symmetrical, by their very nature.
>[...]

Mark,

Thanks for posting the various web site addresses to look at.
After looking over several Martian volcanoes with irregular
outlines, I did find one that fits what you state above. It is
an elongated volcano in plan-form with good bilateral symmetry,
in the Tharsis region. So its outline is of the "face" shape.  It
can be viewed at:

http://ceps.nasm.edu:2020/ETP/MARS/MARSIMG/tharsis.gif

in the upper center of the frame.  What shows up by dark
shadowing is the outline of the relatively low upper wall of the
volcano's large interior. Although the outline of the outermost
edge at surrounding ground level is at best barely discernible,
it does seem to be pretty well congruent to the upper wall.  So
I'm more comfortable now with the belief that the similar outline
of the "Face" is also a natural feature.  There is a large
difference in scale between the two, with the tharsis volcano
being some 125 miles long, but I suppose such a structure is no
less unlikely to occur naturally on a scale 2 orders of magnitude
smaller.

Now I have only to contend with the symmetry of the rectilinear
"headdress" feature, or the possibility that the Face was only
designed to show up as a face when the sun is low in the west.
The latter does seem like a low probability bet, though.

Jim Deardorff







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                 Saucer Shaped Science Fiction Hall of Fame

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 02:41:14 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:55:40 -0400
Subject: Saucer Shaped Science Fiction Hall of Fame

Flying Saucer Shaped Science Fiction Hall of Fame Being Built Near
Queen Mary

Business Wire - April 14, 1998 07:16


LONG BEACH, Calif.--(ENTERTAINMENT WIRE)--April 14, 1998--Science
fiction fans won't have to wait until 2001 to experience their own
space odyssey. Queen's Seaport Development, Inc. (QSDI), operators of
the popular Queen Mary attraction in Long Beach, Calif., are building a
$30 million, first-of-its-kind Science Fiction Hall of Fame (SFHF) on
the 45-acre property adjacent to the Queen Mary.

Shaped to resemble a massive flying saucer, the 100,000-square foot
facility is scheduled to open in early 2000, with projected attendance
of more than one million adults and children per year. Interactive
exhibits and immersive activities will feature state-of-the-art
technology and special effects to showcase science fiction, fantasy and
horror in film, television, comic books and graphic arts.

"Characters and lines of dialogue from science fiction works have made
their way into the cultural lexicon," said Joseph F. Prevratil,
president, QSDI. "Is there anyone who wouldn't recognize Darth Vader?
Hasn't everyone, at some time, said `Beam me up Scottie,' or `Hasta la
vista, baby?' Prevratil noted that while the term "hall of fame"
conjures up images of static museum exhibits, this facility will be
anything but that, using video, audio, light, computer graphics, live
presentations and special guest appearances to engage visitors in a
journey befitting the exciting world of science, married with the
future.

"Whether they are conversing with a holographic science fiction hero,
creating their own comic book or `starring' in a famous sci-fi scene,
visitors to the Science Fiction Hall of Fame in Long Beach will be part
of the action, directing their own unique science fiction adventure
each time they visit," he said.

Plans for the SFHF include opportunities to experience virtually every
genre of science fiction in the facility's imposing entry/arrival zone,
pre-show theaters and five interest areas, covering television,
graphics, film, authors, and science fiction heroes. Corporate
sponsors, including studios, publishers and others, who recognize the
broad appeal of science fiction, are also being approached for
cross-promotions, as well as short and long-term partnerships.

Leading filmmakers, authors, artists and aficionados will be invited to
sit on the Hall of Fame's advisory board. Prevratil indicated that an
announcement of board members might take place in conjunction with the
facility's August 1998 groundbreaking.

A selection committee will also announce the first inductees to the
SFHF at a gala event in November of this year. To be eligible for
induction, nominees must have made outstanding contributions in the
arts and sciences of science fiction, based upon either cumulative
contributions or achievements, or a singular and extraordinary
contribution or achievement. Furthermore, a candidate must also have a
body of work spanning a minimum of 20 years.

A series of television specials honoring the genre and its pioneers is
in production and will be presented under the auspices of SFHF. The
first special will showcase women in science fiction and is scheduled
for production late this year.

Prevratil noted that fans will also be able to help preserve
memorabilia and honor icons of science fiction through tiered
sponsorships (beginning at $25) in the SFHF Foundation. The non-profit
foundation is being formed to assist the Hall of Fame in securing
artifacts from around the world and developing appropriate educational
programs.

In addition, a rich world wide web site is currently under
construction. It will bring the SFHF collection and its fascinating
world of make-believe into homes around the globe.

CONTACT: The Bohle Company

Patricia Johnson, 818/593-5743






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   Apr > Apr 15

              Malin: Mars Orbiter Camera And Viking Histograms

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 02:21:07 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:00:02 -0400
Subject: Malin: Mars Orbiter Camera And Viking Histograms

>From Malin Space Science Systems via NASA's MGS site. URL:

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/msss/camera/images/4_9_histo_release/index.
html

I didn't format the number sequences so go to the site for the real
picture.


Stig

*******


Mars Global Surveyor
Mars Orbiter Camera



What about the histograms?



What is a histogram?


A histogram is a graph or table that shows the relationship between
each brightness level in a picture and that fraction, amount, or
percentage of the picture that has that brightness level. For example,
a picture that was all black would have a histogram with a single value
(for example, 100%) at the "0" brightness level. An all white image
would have a histogram with a single value at the "255" brightness
level. An image that was 1/2 white and 1/2 back would have two spikes
in its histogram, each at 50%, at "0" and "255." An image that had
equal numbers of gray levels between 0 and 255 would have a flat
histogram, with equal percentages at each gray level. Remember this
last example, as we'll return to it shortly.

Real images have differing shades of gray, depending on lighting
conditions, the slope (slopes towards the sun are brighter than those
pointing away from the sun, etc.), and whether the surface is composed
of light or dark materials. Typically, images have histograms that
resemble the familiar "bell-shaped" curve used to assign classroom
grades.



A comparison of Viking and MOC Histograms

Figure 1 shows three histograms. From top to bottom, these are the
8-bit (256 shades of gray) histograms of Viking Orbiter images 035A70
and 070A13, as they are read from the Planetary Data System CD-ROMs,
and MOC image 22003. These are also given, in tabular form, in their
entirety: 035A70, 070A13, and 22003.


Figure 1: Comparison of Viking and MOC 8-bit Histograms (attached)


Examination of Figure 1 shows three attributes of the Viking
histograms, relative to the MOC histogram.


1.The vertical lines that define the curves are more broadly spaced for
the two Viking histograms than they are for the MOC histogram (that is,
the vertical lines in the MOC histogram are closer together).

2.The Viking histograms have long "tails" (brightness values that occur
in small numbers) between 0 and 50 and between 130 and 255; the MOC
image histogram has short "tails."

3.The Viking histograms are mostly confined between about brightness
levels 50 and 130, while the MOC histogram is confined between 50 and
100.


The first of these attributes results from the fact that the Viking
data as archived by NASA have 1 more bit of information than was
actually acquired by the Viking Orbiter cameras. Inspection of a part
of the 035a70 table shows what's going on:


 Brightness                # of Pixels   % of Image   Graph of # of Pixels

     50                           441       0.03
     51                             1       0.00
     52                           458       0.04
     53                             1       0.00
     54                           646       0.05
     55                             3       0.00
     56                          2051       0.16
     57                             2       0.00
     58                          2703       0.21  *
     59                             1       0.00
     60                          7432       0.58  ***
     61                             2       0.00
     62                         22573       1.78  **********
     63                             0       0.00
     64                         22217       1.75  **********
     65                             1       0.00
     66                         40797       3.21  *******************
     67                             1       0.00
     68                         51385       4.04
************************


Note that the odd-numbered brightness values (e.g., 51, 53, 55, etc.)
occur very infrequently in the image (1 or 2 times in the entire
image), while even values (50, 52, 54, etc.) occur much more often.
This shows that there really is one-half the amount of data (every
other brightness level) between 0 and 255, or only 128 real shades of
gray.

Compare this to a similar section of the MOC histogram:


 Brightness                # of Pixels   % of Image   Graph of # of Pixels

     40                             0       0.00
     41                             0       0.00
     42                             0       0.00
     43                             2       0.00
     44                             6       0.00
     45                            42       0.00
     46                            94       0.00
     47                           161       0.00
     48                           263       0.00
     49                           387       0.00
     50                           851       0.01
     51                          2207       0.02
     52                          4872       0.05
     53                          9014       0.09
     54                         13674       0.14  *
     55                         18935       0.19  *
     56                         25813       0.26  **
     57                         37456       0.38  ***
     58                         56386       0.57  ****
     59                         91238       0.93  *******
     60                        142126       1.45  ***********
     61                        196481       2.00  ****************
     62                        235086       2.39  *******************
     63                        262813       2.67  *********************
     64                        294254       2.99
************************
     65                        332896       3.39
***************************


Note that for MOC, that once values begin to appear, around brightness
"42," every brightness value thereafter has an associated large number
of occurrences.

Thus, the every-other value nature of the Viking data is responsible
for the spacing seen in the histogram. This is the difference between
7- and 8-bit data.

The second attribute of the Viking data, that is, the long "tails" of
values, can be seen in another excerpt from the 035A70 table:


 Brightness                # of Pixels   % of Image   Graph of # of Pixels

    140                           305       0.02
    141                             0       0.00
    142                           318       0.03
    143                             0       0.00
    144                           236       0.02
    145                             0       0.00
    146                           230       0.02
    147                             2       0.00
    148                           234       0.02
    149                             0       0.00
    150                           271       0.02
    151                             0       0.00
    152                           195       0.02
    153                             3       0.00
    154                           170       0.01
    155                             2       0.00
    156                           174       0.01
    157                             2       0.00
    158                           158       0.01
    159                             1       0.00
    160                           209       0.02


Note that every even brightness value has a few hundred occurrences.
This is similar to the example given earlier of an image with equal
numbers of pixels at all brightnesses. Inspection of the raw images
(e.g., see the raw images in
http://www.msss.com/education/facepage/face.html) shows "salt and
pepper" noise (randomly spaced pixels that are either darker or
brighter than their neighbors) that is characteristic of the
telecommunications system used during Viking. This noise produces the
long "tails" seen in the histogram.

Thus, the second attribute is explained by the noisier communication
system of Viking relative to Mars Global Surveyor.

The final attribute is explained by a combination of the two previous
explanations. The Viking image histograms are more spread out than the
MOC image histograms because (1) the Viking data were "expanded" from
7- to 8-bit during their initial ground processing in 1976 and (2)
radio system noise accounts for the longer tails.



Are gray levels missing from the MOC image?


With the background given above, it is possible to address the question
of whether or not MOC images are "missing" brightness levels, as has
been alleged by some.

Figure 2 shows shows three histograms. The top shows the 8-bit
histogram of Viking image 035A70, as described above. The middle shows
what that histogram looks like when the low values associated with the
every-other nature of the data are removed (thus recreating the
"original" 7-bit, 128 gray levels recorded by the Viking camera. Note
that the spread in brightnesses is now one-half what it was earlier:
the actual spread of brightnesses for 035A70 is seen to be between
about 30 and 65-70, or 35-40 shades of gray. The bottom histogram is
that from the MOC image, showing a range from about 45 to about 95, or
roughly 50 shades of gray.


Figure 2: 7- vs. 8-bit Histograms (attached)


Thus, the MOC data are not particularly different from the Viking data.
Indeed, the MOC data actually have more gray levels than the Viking
images.



Why are there so few gray levels in the Viking and MOC images?


In general, Mars is a low-contrast planet. This means that there are
few areas that are really dark and few areas that are really bright,
and that really dark and really bright areas usually don't occur next
to one another. In fact, most of Mars is relatively bland. However, as
noted at the top of this page, brightness depends also on slope and
illumination conditions. When setting the exposure for both the Viking
and MOC images, people worried about potential slope effects that could
make the image too dark or too light, and also about occasional
exceptions to the rule that bright and dark things don't occur very
often. Thus, they were conservative in setting the controls, giving
themselves more room above and below the expected "average" brightness
in case something unforeseen was in the picture. By increasing the
potential range of brightnesses that would fall between 0 and 255, the
actual brightnesses were compressed into a smaller portion of that
range. Hence, the images have low contrast, or in other words, narrow
histograms.



Conclusion


There are no missing gray levels. The MOC and Viking images are very
comparable in terms of the shades of gray they recorded. The primary
differences between the images of the "Face on Mars" acquired by Viking
and that acquired by MOC is the difference in the illumination
direction and sun elevation, and the factor of ten higher spatial
resolution of the MOC image. If it doesn't look like a face, it isn't
because gray levels are missing.






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   Apr > Apr 15

               Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

From: "Terry J. Blanton" <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:38:11 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 10:01:17 -0400
Subject: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

Bruce Maccabee wrote:

> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 00:46:53 -0400
> From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

<snip>

> I guess you have't read my article in the MUFON Journal (april).

> Measurements of th angular size (image size) of the UO
> (unidentified object) show that it is constant until a couple of
> seconds before it disappears the second time behind the higher
> building. If the image size is interpreted as being inversely
> proportional to the distance (a logical assumption) then it
> maintain nearly a constant distance for most of the time
> (probably traveled along a straight or nearly straight track
> perpendicular to the camera field of view) and then moved away
> rapidly.

> IN fact, the data suggest an acceleration as the object abruptly
> turned to its left. Obviously such an effect could be
> synthesized... assuming the nasty synthesizer would think of
> it...I might point out that this video is being analyzed almost
> pixel by pixel.......

Okay, I went back and reviewed the video and I agree with you --
the object is receding from the camera as it disappears behind
the last building.  And it would not have to move very far from
the camera to disappear in the smoggy haze.

While my faith meter has improved slightly, it would get a bigger
jolt by having the photographer come forward. The ability to
create an amazingly realistic image is easily within the realm of
the home PC. Software has come a long way and I doubt I would
believe any anomalous image on the merits of the image alone. I
put more faith in the testimony of the witnesses. I've been
burned by more than one anonymous video.

Don't misunderstand. I'm a firm believer in alien visitation.
But I want the smoking gun AND the trigger finger before I can
call the images believeable.

A great example of this is Walter's video over the bay.  Here is
an object experiencing over 100 g's in it's movement with an
obvious shadow on the trees on the opposite side WITH the
testimony of the cameraman.

I think Ed filmed a real object and I doubt it's one of ours.

Terry







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   Apr > Apr 15

             Cydonia 'Swath': Explanation For Difference In Size

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 08:59:02 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 08:59:02 -0400
Subject: Cydonia 'Swath': Explanation For Difference In Size

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
To: updates@globalserve.net
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 01:47:03 +0200
Subject: Second Cydonia Observation: Explanation For Difference In Swath Size

>From NASA's Mars Global Surveyor site. URL:

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/target/update4-14.html

*******

Explanation of Difference in Swath Size for Second Cydonia Observation

14-APR-98 1:45 PM PDT

cydonia_map2.gif ( 510 KB ) (Attached)


In the second Cydonia observation from Orbit #239, the slant
range to the target site is 196 miles (317 km), as compared to
275 miles (444 km) in the first observation on Orbit #220. The
slant range is not a parameter controlled by the flight team.
Instead, it depends on the location of the orbit relative to the
location of the target, and will vary from orbit to orbit.
Similar to cameras on Earth with a fixed lens size, decreasing
the range to the target will yield a narrower field of view.

For example, both the first and second images of the Cydonia
region have a pixel width of 1024. Since the slant range is
smaller in the second image, the resolution is 8.13 feet (2.48
meters) per pixel as compared to 14.1 feet (4.3 meters) per pixel
in the first image. In other words, the swath size encompassing
the region observed from Orbit #239 is smaller. However, the
resolution is higher than for the swath obtained from Orbit #220.
The second Cydonia image covers an area 1.6 miles (2.54 km)
across by 14.7 miles (23.81 km) long with a resulting resolution
20 times higher than the best previous image taken by the Viking
Mission in the mid-1970's. The first Cydonia image covers an area
2.7 miles (4.4 km) wide and 25.7 miles (41.5 km) long, yielding a
resolution 10 times higher than from Viking.

The raw image of the Cydonia region from Orbit #239 is schedule
for release late this afternoon. The enhanced version should be
available in the early evening Pacific Time.





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   Apr > Apr 15

                   UFOs Cause Power Failures In Argentina

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 06:00:10 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:46:31 -0400
Subject: UFOs Cause Power Failures In Argentina

From: "die tageszeitung", a Berlin newspaper, April 15.

http://www.taz.de/cgi-bin/markhtml?url=3Dhttp://www.taz.de:80/~taz//980415
.taz/wa_T980415.208.html&mw=3DArgentinien

The German text follows my English translation.

*******


UFOs Darken Argentina.

In the Argentine holiday center of Bariloche flying saucers have
caused chaos in the power supply, and much concern among the
inhabitants. The day before yesterday local radio stations were
contacted by about a dozen eye witnesses, all of whom had seen
four luminous, round discs hover in the sky the night before.
"They were a large spacecraft and three smaller ones that
attached themselves to the larger one again and again. Something
like a shower of sparks occurred, and then all the lights went
out," one of the inhabitants, Sara Salivar, told. A spokesman for
the power station confirmed the, in his own words, inexplicable
power failures. Already some years ago a pilot had problems
landing at Bariloche on account of a UFO. For some unknown reason
the power failed then, too.

******


Unheimlich: UFOs verdunkeln Argentinien


Im argentinischen Ferienzentrum Bariloche haben fliegende
Untertassen ein Chaos in der Stromversorgung angerichtet und f=FCr
reichlich Unruhe in der Bev=F6lkerung gesorgt. Bei lokalen
H=F6rfunksendern meldeten sich vorgestern etwa ein Dutzend
Augenzeugen, die allesamt in der Nacht zuvor vier leuchtende
runde Scheiben am Himmel hatten schweben sehen.

"Es waren ein gro=DFes Raumschiff und drei kleine, die hin und
wieder an das gr=F6=DFere ankoppelten. Dabei gab es jedesmal so etwas
wie Funkenflug, und genau dann gingen in der Stadt die Lichter
aus", berichtete Sara Salivar, eine Einwohnerin des Ortes. Ein
Sprecher des Elektrizit=E4tswerks best=E4tigte die nach seinen Worten
unerkl=E4rlichen Stromausf=E4lle. Bereits vor einigen Jahren
berichtete ein Pilot =FCber Probleme beim Landeanflug auf
Bariloche, verursacht durch ein UFO. Auch damals fiel aus bis
heute ungekl=E4rter Ursache der Strom aus.Foto: taz-Archiv

TAZ Nr. 5507 vom 15.04.1998 Seite 20 Die Wahrheit 32 Zeilen
TAZ-Bericht
=A9 Contrapress media GmbH








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               Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 22:25:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:43:23 -0400
Subject: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs


>Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 13:24:18 -0700
>From: "Terry J. Blanton" <commengr@bellsouth.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

>Theresa wrote:

>> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:58:59 -0400
>> From: Theresa <Tcarlson1@compuserve.com>
>> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs
>> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

><snip>

>> That's probably why the perspective views of the buildings
>> doesn't change on this video as the camera pans.  I made the
>> same mistake when I made the saucer fly through the
>> Minneapolis skyline. (Don't remember if I ever sent that
>> to you.)

>Uh, T, there *is* one other explanation:  the camera is running
>on a rail parallel to the movement of the UFO. <g,d,r>

What is the significance of a "perspective view"? The camera
apparently filmed from one location. An aerial survey photo shows
that the "perspective view" from the building identified as the
location of the cameraman agrees with what appears in the video.
There is no parallax view that would require filming from another
location at the same time and would therefore give a 3-D aspect.
If the buildings look "flat" it can simply be because they are
hundreds of meters away.

<snip>

>> The camera only pans left and
>> right. If the object went out of view, wouldn't it be natural to look
>> up higher in the sky for it?? The view never goes any higher in
>> the sky than what is seen in the initial long shot.  What happens
>> if you pan too far up on 2d image?  <G>

>Hey!  I know the answer to this one!  Keystone Kops!

Another possible answer based on the apparent motion of the UO
(unidentified object)): it moved upward slightly before
disappearing behind the first building and then continued te
upward motion for a short distance after reappearing. Then it
moved horizontally until it disappeared. One has to allow for the
distinct **possibility** that the cameraman would make the
logical assumption to the UO would continue to move to the right
at the same altitude since it moved steadily to the right before
it disappeared. Apparently the cameraman did not notice... which
is not surprising... that the angular size of the UO was
shrinking just before it disappeared... suggesting that it was
moving away from the camera.... where it could be lost in the
haze..

<snip>

>> One thing I haven't been able to find, is the UFO's shadow.
>> Even in the smog, or haze or whatever, the balconies and
>> other part of the builings and foreground clutter have nice
>> crisp shadows all aligned in the proper direction.

>Yeah, I looked for a shadow, too. At least they seem to get the light
>source in the right place.

One must consider the *possibility** that the UO was beyond the
high rise building and hence its shadow, if there was one, was
obscured by nearby structures or by the buildings themselves.
(After the video zooms in it doesn't show the ground).






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                       Re: Strieber On Father Balducci

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 03:10:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:50:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Strieber On Father Balducci

>Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 07:46:19 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber On Father Balducci

>>Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:31:54 -0500
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: John <jvif@spacelab.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Strieber On Father Balducci


>>It is _painful_ posts such as these that make me rue the day I
>>'came out' publicly as an abductee. These guys are an
>>embarassment. I almost hate to respond to  because it's always
>>interpreted as one "camps" opinion about another "camp." I just
>>can't let garbage like this go by unflagged though. Please, do
>>not interpret my opinions as "in-house fighting" or more
>>ufologists feeding and tearing apart other ufologists.

>>That is _not_ where I'm coming from at all.

>>John Velez- comments to follow. Read on at your own risk.

><snip>


>>John Velez, (speaking for myself)

>Yo, Bro John.

>ROFLMAO!

>Talk about hitting the nail on the head.

>Why this is just the perfect time to mention our Beyond Roswell
>CD ROM on sale now at better CD vendors everywhere.  You will
>find Msgr Balducci prominent in his lack of mention in our
>appendix.

>Bob

Hi Bob, hi All,

What really gets me by the ya-ya's is, the more unadulterated BS
one puts out there the more 'popular' and financially rewarded
you become!

example:

If I was to don some robes and start ringing bells and burning
incense (while accompanied by Hopi elders) and openly proclaiming
the coming of the Kingdom of the Space Brothers, I'd have a
bigger following and popularity rating than Clinton got after the
American people found out he was boinking interns for lunch!
Probably mean a bigger house for me too!

One of the very hardest things I have tried to do is to establish
a place where the experiencers themselves can be assured of an
honest and critical peer review of their own experiences. The
resistance to any kind of critical approach has been formidable!
Formidable enough to stop a rogue elephant dead in its tracks.

I think that's a sad state of affairs and a commentary on us all
as a society. For so long we've been putting the emphasis on all
the wrong things. Basketball players make millions while truly
great educators live on welfare wages. Science fiction over
science fact. Lies instead of truth. The President acts like a
deranged Felini circus clown and his popularity rating goes up!

It's no wonder that con men like Dr. B can 'get over' on people
even after being exposed as predator. No surprise that one BS
artist can publicly endorse another (bigger) BS artist and expect
to taken seriously by thousands of adoring fans. "Messengers" and
"prophets" they call themselves! If it wasn't so sad I'd pee
myself laughing.

I really work hard and believe in what I do. These sad idiots are
an embarassment to anyone who is trying to get serious attention
for something that is soon to become an issue for _all_ to deal
with. I was simply trying to point out the absurdity of Streiber's
remarks. It wasn't hard. Every bloody sentence was a straightline
just waiting to be punched. I wasn't trying to 'bash' anybody.
Just calling a spade a spade.

I'll end this one like Spike Lee ended one of his, . . .

WAKE UP!

Peace,

John Velez, (speaking for myself)







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                            Alfred's Odd Ode #239

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 05:09:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:54:37 -0400
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #239

Apology to MW #239 (For April 15, 1998)

There are secrets keeping secrets wrapped in jealous secrete
lies. It's a secret disrespects you; it's the secret I despise.
It's the secret at the bottom keeping secrets held too dear; if
they share them they're not special, and consumed with sullen
fear. They keep them to be special, and to have their comfy
edges. They keep them though they put themselves so far out on
their ledges.

Keep your secrets then, for folly, as you stew in your own
juices. Slowly simmer in your sameness till you die. I blithely
_sprint_ your un-trod path to YOUR feared edge -- I reach the lip
. . . I spread my arms and jump!! I soar! I FLY!

Then it's from your edge I'm sailing, and I show you need no
fear! What has scared you is a blessing, and it's _that_ you
should keep dear. The starfields are the meadows of a liquid
plasma fight where the struggle for creation blooms the flowers
of each night! The night is day, or day is night -- it's up to
_you_ to choose! What you watch, quite simply, changes! You
change _with_ it, or you lose!!

Turn to see a blueness that you'd sicken 'til she smells. See the
breathing of her land; see her oceans, move and swell. Feel
clouds like water pillows; smell the lightening split the sky;
taste a grateful truth unending like the birds you're hearing
fly. Hear the rumble of her whales as they make their
conversations to the winsome wraith-like watchers from beyond.
Know that it�s connected to the dreams that you discount; a fact
from which you've _chosen_ to abscond.

I cleave Monk Bruno's heavens! Right now I'm breathing free! I
scoff at your rejection. I fly opposed, but off my knees! I keep
my eyes wide open, and I see you as you are -- a mote of sentient
carbon born of massive blue white stars. And still you keep your
secrets like the manner lords of old. Your position is not
justice, so it's you I warn and scold. As a person is the way is,
and you're mated to the dark. Your secrets are your disrespect;
it's you keeps culture parked! _Keep_ your faith untested, let
tradition keep you shackled, and the future is a _reason_ for
your fear. But open up your mind and heart, how quick you find
your second start; the way becomes a _better_ kind of clear.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

On reflection -- I would do away with those secrets spelled like
four letter words. Most are, certainly, disrespect taken form. .
. secrets, of course, not four letter words. Many times, the
traditional four letter words reflect a health we just won't cop
to.

Why do you keep YOUR secrets, and aren't the reasons tragic?

Restore John Ford.

--
Explore the Alien View?

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake.







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                  Cydonia Region - Contrast Enhanced Images

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:19:50 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:08:16 -0400
Subject: Cydonia Region - Contrast Enhanced Images

Go to

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/target/CYD2/index.html

and enjoy!


Stig






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                  Re: Malin: Mars Orbiter Camera And Viking

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 10:48:51 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:52:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Malin: Mars Orbiter Camera And Viking

>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 02:21:07 +0200
>Subject: Malin: Mars Orbiter Camera And Viking Histograms

>>From Malin Space Science Systems via NASA's MGS site. URL:

>http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/msss/camera/images/4_9_histo_release/index.
>html

>I didn't format the number sequences so go to the site for the real
>picture.

>Stig


>Mars Global Surveyor
>Mars Orbiter Camera


>What about the histograms?

<Snipped>

Stig,

Thanks for posting this.

Malin is 100% correct, and his explanation is accurate and valid.

The man knows what he is talking about.

I hope this lays to rest all the crap about missing gray levels,
but I know it won't.  Unfortunately.

Bob








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                    Hoagland on Bell and Cydonia Pictures

From: "Keith Woodard" <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 08:14:16 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:54:55 -0400
Subject: Hoagland on Bell and Cydonia Pictures

Art:  ...I'm getting from a number people who are sending me
email...there are people who are seeing BUILDINGS, I repeat,
BUILDINGS in the new photographs!

Richard: Absolutely, I'm looking at it myself.  On the lower
right hand corner, alright...

<snip>

Art: I mean I've got people -- let me read it to you.  It says,
"You can see straight lines and shadows, also what appear to be
doorways, I repeat, doorways and several buildings!

Richard: Yup.  No question.

Art: You agree!

Richard: Abso -- I'm looking at them!

<snip>

Richard:  This is a very historic night, Mr. Bell, a very
historic night.







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                             SPACEWARN Bulletin

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:52:33 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:50:19 -0400
Subject: SPACEWARN Bulletin

To MUFON Ontario members and UFO UpDates subscribers.

If you are interested in a brief summary of the times and dates
of all rocket launches (as well as many other details for each
launch) and the dates spacecraft or rocket boosters return to
Earth or burn up in the atmosphere (past and future), then I
would suggest you subscribe to the SPACEWARN Bulletin which is
sent out by e-mail.

Subscription information and other details can be found at:

http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/spacewarn/spacewarn.html

I have found the SPACEWARN Bulletins excellent for quick
reference whenever a UFO sighting is reported by many over a
large area and I suspect that it may have a possible connection
to human space related activity.

Nick Balaskas







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                               Address Request

From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 00:50:05 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 17:27:12 -0400
Subject: Address Request

Dear Errol,

A colleague in the USA has asked me if anyone has the current
snail mail address of crop circle researcher Pat Delgado. I'm
afraid I don't have it but does anyone on the list ?

Thanks,

Philip.








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                              Document Request

From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 00:51:13 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 17:25:58 -0400
Subject: Document Request

Dear Errol,

Can anyone help provide me with a copy of the Senator Russell UFO
sighting report that he made in the l950's in the USSR.

Thanks,


Philip.








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                               Re: Cydonianism

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:19:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 17:29:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Cydonianism

>Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 18:02:03 -0700 (PDT)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Cydonianism

>Mark,

>Thanks for posting the various web site addresses to look at.
>After looking over several Martian volcanoes with irregular
>outlines, I did find one that fits what you state above. It is...

>There is a large
>difference in scale between the two, with the tharsis volcano
>being some 125 miles long, but I suppose such a structure is no
>less unlikely to occur naturally on a scale 2 orders of magnitude
>smaller.

Mars is certainly a place which stretches our sense of scale in
geology. Volcanic features there are sometimes three orders of
magnitude larger than comparable features on earth, and there
are some features, such as the "paterae", which have never
been found on earth.

There are also the rampart, pedestal, and "splosh" craters, which
are generated by the unique conditions of Martian soil and
erosion effects. There's no question that such things make it
very hard to anticipate the appearance of certain features, or to
derive their causes based on terrestrial geology.

FYI, Viking frame 627A28 shows a volcano with an extremely
elongated summit vent, which is almost exactly the sort of
feature I have begun to suspect the Face began as.


------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront/
------







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                               Re: Cydonianism

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:19:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 17:28:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Cydonianism

>Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 18:02:03 -0700 (PDT)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Cydonianism

>Mark,

>Thanks for posting the various web site addresses to look at.
>After looking over several Martian volcanoes with irregular
>outlines, I did find one that fits what you state above. It is...

> There is a large
>difference in scale between the two, with the tharsis volcano
>being some 125 miles long, but I suppose such a structure is no
>less unlikely to occur naturally on a scale 2 orders of magnitude
>smaller.

Mars is certainly a place which stretches our sense of scale in
geology. Volcanic features there are sometimes three orders of
magnitude larger than comparable features on earth, and there
are some features, such as the "paterae", which have never
been found on earth.

There are also the rampart, pedestal, and "splosh" craters, which
are generated by the unique conditions of Martian soil and
erosion effects. There's no question that such things make it
very hard to anticipate the appearance of certain features, or
to derive their causes based on terrestrial geology.

FYI, Viking frame 627A28 shows a volcano with an extremely
elongated summit vent, which is almost exactly the sort of
feature I have begun to suspect the Face began as.


------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront/
------







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                   91} part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network

From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 20:08:56 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 20:15:52 -0400
Subject: 91} part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network

        ______ _______ ____
------ /  /  //  ____//    |----------------------------------------------
 U K  /  /  //  ___/ /  /  '                               15th April 1998
     /  /  //  /    /  /  /  N E T W O R K                 part 1 Issue 91
--- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------

The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with
subscribers in over 40 countries.

This issue comes in 4 parts. If any part is missing please mail:
ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be
reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject
section e.g.  Repost {91} part 1, part 2, part 3 or part 4.

In this issue:

Editorial
---------

Guests on UK.UFO.NW -IRC- channel
Alien humour

United Kingdom News
-------------------

[UK 1] Alien alert as mini meteors do the light fantastic
[UK 2] They're Lights, Jim, But Not As We Know Them
[UK 3] Fireballs Were A Meteor Shower
[UK 4] Sighting M56 near to Runcorn, Cheshire
[UK 5] Abducted
[UK 6] Abducted by aliens
[UK 7] Private rocket nosedives after four seconds above Dartmoor


World News
----------

[W 1] Firm to send clips of hair into space
[W 2] UFO cult calm as God misses predicted TV appearance
[W 3] Investigation into Clinton jet radar loss


Alien Humour
------------


Book serialisation
------------------

A FEARFUL SYMMETRY

A TRUE STORY OF ALIEN INTRUSION INTO HUMAN LIVES

By D. Lynne Bishop


Editorial
---------

Guests on UK.UFO.NW -IRC- channel

United Kingdom UFO Network has had some very interesting guests on
it's IRC (internet relay channel) over the last few weeks. Ros
Reynolds: UK abductee - Nick Redfern: UK ufologist, author and
government conspiracy investigator - Kevin Randle: World respected
ufologist and Roswell expert.

Text transcripts of these meeting can be found on the below web sites:

http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/
http://www.crowman.demon.co.uk/

AND we are not stopping there. Future guests include:


Saturday 25th April 98

Philippe Piet van Putten live from Sao Paulo, Brazil.

Director of the Brazilian Academy of Parasciences (ABP) and National
Director for Picard UFO Research International (PUFORI). Editor of
the bimonthly bulletin Aerospatial Phenomena (entering its 4th year
of publication).

Saturday 2nd May 1998

James Bond Johnson

James was the photographer who took the famous 1947 Roswell UFO
crash wreckage in the office of General Ramey in Fort Worth, Texas.


Confirmed UK.UFO.NW -IRC- guests (dates to be organised)

Nick Pope - UK MoD and former head of Sec (Air Staff) 2a at the MoD.

John Carpenter (USA)


Full connection details to the UK.UFO.NW -IRC- channel can be found
at the foot of this e-zine.

--

Alien humour

Folks please send us whatever Alien, UFO jokes you have or come
across. Our address as usual is:

ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk


United Kingdom News
===================

[UK 1]******

Source: Daily Mail newspaper (UK)
Publish date: Tuesday 17th March 1998

Alien alert as mini meteors do the light fantastic

By David Derbyshire
Science Correspondent

A spectacular meteor shower sent hundreds of anxious onlookers
scurrying to phone the emergency services, convinced aliens were
about to land.

Police and coastguards were inundated with calls when the skies
above Southern Britain lit up with stunning flashes and smoke trails
and echoed to rumbling explosions.

Many mistook the shooting stars for distress flares from a ship in
trouble, while others believed they were seeing UFOs.

Infact, the light show signalled the return of a group of meteoroids
called Virginids, which reach the Earth every Spring. Experts say
they will be around for weeks. Sunday night's display was
particularly spectacular because of the nearly full moon and
crystal-clear skies.

Emergency services across the South and West said yesterday they had
taken hundreds of calls.

Police were also alerted, but soon learned the lights were shooting
stars after checking with weather experts.

The Brixham Coastguard in South Devon said it took up to 30 calls
reporting red distress flares in an area from Exmouth to beyond
Plymouth.

"It was obviously quite a severe meteorite shower," a spokesman
said. "We actually saw one over our own coastguard station. There was
a bright flash of white light with a bang and some smoke. It was like
a very big, very high firework.

Meteorologist Dr Richard Porter, from Kingsbridge, South Devon, told
how he saw a trail of light across the sky.

"It was like a rocket which broke up into five or six pieces and
disappeared but there was a smoke cloud which remained for ten
minutes. I also heard bangs and rumblings for two or three minutes.

"I believe it was a meteor a foot or so across at about 18 to 30
miles up in the sky. This is comparatively low in our atmosphere and
the lowest I have seen. It may have been a piece of space debris and
not a true meteorite."

Gerald White, secretary of the Norman Lockyer Observatory in
Sidmouth, Devon, said the meteors varied  from the size of sand to a
pea or even a cricket ball.

Tens of thousands of these lumps of rock and iron head towards Earth
every year, but only 100 or so are large enough to survive their
fiery descent and reach the ground.

When they float through space they are known as meteoroids. When
they burn up in the atmosphere they become meteors and if they crash
into the ground they are meteorites.

Meteoroids hit the atmosphere at up to 45 miles a second. Friction
with the air turns them white hot and they appear as streaks of
bright light. Mr White said reports of smoke were explained by
vapour.

Most are the size of grains of sand and disintegrate at least 50
miles up. But larger meteoroids, travelling at five times the speed
of sound, can produce sonic booms as they approach the ground.

They are created when asteroids collide in space, although some are
debris from comets.

Meteor showers occur when the Earth passes through orbiting clusters
of rocks. Some return annually, others every few decades.

[UK 2]******

Source: The South Wales Argus, Monday March 16 1998
Publish date: Monday 16th March 1998
From: Lloyd Bayliss - lloyd@gwent-tertiary.ac.uk

They're Lights, Jim, But Not As We Know Them

By Helen Morgan

Gwent police were enjoying a quiet Sunday evening.  Until 7pm last
night, that is, when their switchboard was suddenly jammed with
callers reporting flashing lights in the sky.

Dozens of people from accross the southh of the county put forward
various explanations for the spectacle.

A plane crashing was the favourite, but there were also theories
that the much publicised 2028 asteroid was making a premature
appearance.

Inspector Ian Morgan, who was on duty at HQ in Cwmbran, said he
checked with Cardiff Airport to make sure no aeroplane was in
trouble.

"They assured us that everything they had in the air was still in
the air," he said.

But a quick call to the Cardiff Weather Centre solved the mystery.
Forecaster John Moreton confirmed there had been a metorite shower.

He explained that when a meteorite hits the atmosphere at an angle,
rather than straight-on, the results are often spectacular as it
burns up.

"It is actually quite common.  If you stand outside for long enough
you would see one most nights," he said.

Mr Moreton put the intensity of interest in the shower down to it
happening on a cloudless night and relatively early in the evening.

"If it had been clear over the whole country, it would have been
seen right accross Wales," he said.

[UK 3]******

Source: Free Press (Wales)
Publish Date: March 1998 (exact date not known)
From: Lloyd Bayliss - lloyd@gwent-tertiary.ac.uk

Fireballs Were A Meteor Shower

Gwent police were put on alien alert on Sunday evening when they
received reports from all over the country and beyond of fireballs
falling from the she sky.

Callers from as far apart as Pontypool, Chepstow, Merthyr and
Bargoed claimed they had seen alien landings in the Ebbw Vale /
Bargoed area. A police spokesman said that officers were despatched
to investigate but a search turned up no evidence of alien beings.

However, the matter was soon cleared up after a call to the experts
at the weather centre.  They told police the alien invasion was just
a meteor shower.

[UK 4]******

Source: Alien Encounters magazine
Publish Date: April 1998

Merseyside, UK

On the evening of 16th January 1998 the two occupants of a car
travelling along the M56 near to Runcorn, Cheshire, were startled by
a large dark triangular shape, which appeared to be tracking about
150 feet above their vehicle.

In the reflection from the motorway lights it was possible to make
out a central fan construction on the underside of the aircraft,
which itself only carried three small peripheral navigation lights.
The objects speed was about 50-70 mph.

A few nights later, on the 19th January 1998, police on Merseyside
received a number of calls about a strange disc like object which
was seen hovering over Liverpool. The craft seemed to have a soft
glow and gave the impression that it was slowly rotating. I received
two calls myself about the sighting, which seemed to be causing some
concern.

Looking out across the river Mersey I was able to determine that
what had caused the stir was infact the airship TV camera platform
covering Liverpool FC's home match!

Sitting barely into a thin cloud layer, at about 250 feet, the
airship did indeed give the impression of a rotating saucer and was a
good example of how easy it is to mistakingly identify unfamiliar
aircraft.

[UK 5]******

uk.ufo.nw says: The below reports appeared in The Sun newspaper over
a period of four days. Following this report is another about the
same family but by a different journalist and viewpoint.

---

Source: The Sun newspaper (UK)
Publish date: Monday 16th March 1998

Abducted

The book that proves the truth is out there.

Jason Andrews looks like an ordinary 14 year old. His bright blue
eyes, fringed with dark eyelashes, are set in a round intelligent
face. He is average at school but gets bad marks for forgetting to
do homework.

He's cheeky when he can get away with it, terrific on the computer,
hangs out with his friends and thinks money grows on trees. A normal
boy - except that those blue eyes hide a terrible secret.

For Jason has been abducted by aliens.

Today, The Sun reveals his gripping story - the most extraordinary
tale of alien abduction ever.

In the past, such stories have often been dismissed as the fantasies
of cranks. But the mind blowing events you will read about, happened
to this very ordinary family from Kent.

They are not weirdo's. They are not fantasists. Jason's Mum Ann and
Dad Paul, both 41, run a 10-acre smallholding next to Ministry of
Defence training site near the village of Crouch. In the evenings
Paul drives a taxi to make ends meet.

Ann felt compelled to draw this image of an alien, right [typical
greys head], after her family's experiences. And now they have told
their incredible tale in a new book, Abducted. This week The Sun's
Mike Ridley adapts their story. Read it...then make up your mind.

The astonishing story of alien abduction in rural Britain.

Jason Andrews fell into a deep sleep on the sofa after his first
proper birthday party.

He was four years old, stuffed full of birthday cake and shattered
after running around the house with his friends.

Jason's Mum Ann, relieved everything had gone well, settled down for
a quiet cup of coffee with her husband Paul and her Mother Vi.

A loud banging at the door of their cottage in Slade Green, Kent,
interrupted their chat.

It was 10 o'clock at night, too late for casual callers. The noise
was urgent and insistent.

Louder than a fist, it was more like a heavy boot being thrust
against the door with huge force. Paul flung the heavy oak door wide.
The banging stopped the moment he touched the door. There was no one
there. He peered up and down the lane that led to the cottage. It
was empty.

As Paul stepped back into the living room there was a loud crack of
thunder. The storm woke seven year old Daniel, the older son, who
had been asleep in the bedroom. He climbed onto his Grandmothers lap.
Jason slept on.

Suddenly, there was a flash of lightening, so fierce that even Paul,
a big, unflappable man, jumped. Jason sat bolt upright. His eyes
open, staring, but oblivious to the room and the people around him.

He started to talk, pouring out an incredible stream of numbers, as
if he'd hit the jackpot on some weird, mental fruit machine.

Fantastic numbers, huge numbers, strange algebraic configurations,
mathematical terms like 'pi' and 'binary codes', all spewed out of
the mouth of a boy - not yet at school - who normally struggled to
count to ten in his picture books. The loud banging at the door began
again. It seemed to come from the windows and the doors at the same
time.

The whole cottage seemed to shake. Paul grabbed the phone to dial
999 [UK emergency services]. Nothing happened. He had a dialling tone
but the numbers did not register.

Jason stopped talking. At exactly the same moment, the banging
ceased.

Then Jason slid from the settee and, still in a trance, started to
walk towards the door. Paul put his hands on his small son's
shoulders, gently restraining him. The child looked up at his Father
and replied in a strange emotionless voice: "They're waiting for me,
I have to go." As he spoke the knocking began again.

This time his Father grasped him firmly. Jason struggled and Paul,
in desperation, shook him violently to snap him out of it.

Jason fought harder. Then the banging receded, dying out completely
as Jason looked at Paul and asked innocently if he could watch TV.

Paul picked up the phone again and this time was able to get through
to the Police.

When two officers arrived he went through what had happened, without
mentioning Jason's part in it.

They went outside but could find no signs of damage.

All four members of the Andrews family claim to have had X Files
experiences.

Strange things have surrounded Jason from the moment he was born.
Ann would put him into a cot in his bedroom and find him later lying
under the cot. Twice she found him under a chair.

One terrifying night she could not find him at all. Her screams
brought an answering wail from behind the door, where Jason was
lying on the floor.

She thought Daniel, then four, was the culprit.

But Daniel, now 18, remembers that, as a youngster, aliens visited
his bedroom too.

When he was four they turned to Jason. He says he is paralysed in
bed on the nights Jason is abducted.

Ann has witnessed aliens on the family's smallholding. She says she
too has been abducted but, unlike Jason, does not remember
everything that happens.

And Paul, the most skeptical of the lot, once witnesses a bright
orange circular object darting upwards towards the sky at enormous
speed.

After Jason's fourth birthday, electrical equipment in the house
developed a life of  it's own - the TV or hi-fi would come on in the
middle of the day or night.

One night Ann was drifting off to sleep when the house was bathed in
a bright blue light. The lane and farm buildings were lit, brighter
than daylight.

A terrified scream came from Jason's room. "They're back, they're
back!" he shouted in hysterics.

The screams subsided to sobs and the intense light went off
suddenly. Paul refused to admit a connection between Jason's screams
and the light. But over the next weeks Jason changed. Bedtimes were a
battleground.

He was only really settled if he slept on the floor next to his
Mother's side of the bed.

He became anxious and fractious. He would not even go to the toilet
alone.

As Jason grew older he still suffered disturbed nights. Ann would
wake him for school and sometimes he would get up with muddy streaks
down his legs and arms, yet she knew he had bathed the night before.

Sometimes his pyjamas would be caked with mud and his feet and hands
scratched.

At first the couple tried to dismiss it as sleep walking. But early
one morning Paul poked his head into Jason's bedroom. He had
disappeared. Panic stricken, they checked the shed in the back
garden. Ann strained at the heavy bolts. The door opened and they
found him sound asleep. If Jason had been sleepwalking  he would have
needed all his strength to open the bolts. Even if he had, how could
he close them again?

There were physical problems, too. He complained frequently of
stomach pains but Doctors found nothing. When Jason was ten he had
tests in Maidstone hospital. On the final day, doctors asked Ann why
Jason had a six-inch scar on his right side. She had never seen the
scar before and had no idea.

A week later Jason was suddenly struck with acute stomach pains. He
was readmitted to hospital. There was no scar on his right side, but
there were several red fresh-looking scars on his stomach.

It was another two years before Paul and Ann discovered a possible
cause. At first it was an explanation they could not accept. It was
so far-fetched, so incredible.

In 1995 the family were watching a TV show about hypnosis, when a
man in his 40s explained how he had been driving his normal route
home from work one evening.

A journey that normally took 35 minutes lasted over three hours. He
could not explain what had happened in the extra two and three
quarter hours. But since the mysterious time loss he had suffered
mood swings, depression and an irrational fear of the dark.

Without warning, Jason leapt to his feet, picked up a china dog and
hurled it at the TV.

The boy turned to face his parents and, tears coursing down his
cheeks, he sobbed: "That man there is stupid. He should be glad he
can't remember. He should leave it like that.

"Because I remember. I remember everything. I'm scared. They wont
leave me alone. Why can't they leave me alone?".

He fled the room. Ann and Paul looked at each other in shocked
silence.

Daniel, by then aged 16, spoke first: "Do you still not understand?
This guy on telly was abducted by aliens. Don't you both get it
yet?"

Ann's mind was racing. The behaviour the man on TV had  described
was just like Jason's.

Ann had seen stories in newspapers about people who claimed to be in
contact with aliens, but she scarcely bothered to read them.

As for Paul - if Paul couldn't touch it, it didn't exist.

Daniel told his parents: "I get weird stuff happening, too. Last
night I was woken by a bright light, and when I sat up I felt I had
been hit by something all over. Almost like something had entered me.

"I felt something hot running through me, but I was paralysed. The
next second I was asleep, and I didn't remember anything till this
morning.

"I know the aliens wont hurt Jason, but he needs help Mum. He can't
cope with it. It's really screwing him up." Jason was in the
kitchen, his face buried in his arms. Gulping back sobs, he told his
parents: "It's always the light that comes first.

"It wakes me up. Then I see the tall one rise at the foot of the
bed. Suddenly there's lots of little ones everywhere.

"They're fuzzy and indistinct, and they move very fast.

"I can't move or speak, but I'm awake and I can see and hear and
feel. I want to scream run, but the sound doesn't come and my body
can't move.

"Sometimes I am screaming but it never wakes you, you never come to
help me. I hate them. I hate them. I hate you for not coming when I
need you."

Jason sat up and stared accusingly at his parents: "Why do you let
them take me?

"I have to go to hospital with them. They take me to an operating
theatre. It's all white. Sometimes it's a circular room with a metal
floor.

"It's always cold. I want to go home, I hate it. They're there. The
big one touches me but I don't feel it, as if I've had an
anaesthetic. I hate it, I hate it.

"But you don't believe me. You think I'm a stupid kid making it all
up."

Ann said: "I believe you. I'll help you sort it out."

Did she believe him?

Ann knew instinctively Jason was telling the truth as he saw it. She
felt there must be another explanation, but she knew Jason was not
pretending. The events were real to him.

Paul was even more reluctant to believe what Jason had told them.
But he accepted it was their duty as parents to help. What they
learned took the family on a journey in the realms of science
fiction.

The Ministry of Defence says there have been no secret operations at
the Mereworth MoD site, which backs on to the Andrews smallholding.
They say it is used for training part time Territorial Army
soldiers.

But the Andrews are convinced their son IS still being abducted by
aliens. They would love to be proved wrong. But so far no one has
been able to.

1998 Ann Andrews and Jean Ritchie. Extracted from Abducted, The true
story of Alien Abduction in Rural England by Ann Andrews and Jean
Ritchie. Published by Headline in hardback at 16 pounds and 99 pence
and available in all bookshops.

Cynic to believer

Journalist Jean Ritchie, who tells the Andrews family's story in
Abducted, was converted from total cynic to believer as she started
to investigate their story.

Jean, a journalist for more than 30 years, says: "I became convinced
they were telling the truth.

"They are not fantasists. I quickly realised that Ann was not lying,
exaggerating or being manipulated.

"I set out to disprove their story - I couldn't. There are so many
unexplainable things that have happened to them.

"When I went to see Jason, I expected to meet a withdrawn, nervous,
loner of a child - a nerd even. He's not.

"Jason is like any likable, 14-year old. He's outgoing and likes
talking about Arsenal and the Spice Girls.

"I started as so many outsiders do, desperately looking for material
proof- I wanted to touch an alien, take a photograph. Such proof is
elusive, but perhaps this kind of evidence contradicts the nature of
abduction.

"If we are dealing with higher levels of intelligence than our own,
why should they leave fingerprints and clumsy evidence of an event
they choose to shroud in mystery.

"Abductions almost always happen under cover of darkness with all
potential witnesses rendered unconscious.

"What the Andrews family provide is a different kind of proof - a
proof that cannot be dissected under laboratory conditions but is no
less valid.

"Similar stories can be traced back to the beginning of
civilisation, crossing all cultural, social and racial backgrounds.
It is a sheer volume of evidence that cannot be ignored or
dismissed."

---

Source: The Sun newspaper (UK)
Publish date: Tuesday 17th March 1998

Ann saw a face staring in the window...but it wasn't human.

Ann and Paul Andrews are an ordinary couple with two sons, Daniel
and Jason.

They run a 10-acre smallholding, called Hawksnest Farm, near the
village of Crouch in Kent. Their home lies next to a Ministry of
Defence training site. Paranormal activity has surrounded the family
since Jason, 14, was born. But it took 12 years for the couple, both
41, to discover the cause: Jason is regularly abducted by aliens.
Neither Paul or Ann wanted to believe it and fought hard to find
more logical explanations.

Now Ann has told their story in a gripping new book, Abducted, which
you can read here first.

Today, Mike Ridley reveals Ann's diary of unexplained events.

Many weird things have happened to Jason Andrews, but among the most
inexplicable are the strange marks that appear on his body.

Jason and his parents are convinced the wounds and scratches are
caused when he is abducted by aliens in the night.

Here is part of his Mother Ann's diary for 1995:

Sept 20: Jason complained of a pain in his side this morning. Showed
me a red triangular-shaped mark on his rib cage. Later there was no
sign of it.

Sept 23: Jason limped slightly. Showed me a mark at the top of his
leg, as if the flesh had been scooped out. But there was no cut.
Later I tried to show Paul, but it had gone.

October 1: Jason has the dice mark on his left knee. (The dice mark
was a square of dots, a quarter of an inch in diameter.)

On another occasion, Jason gashed his hand at a school fete. A St
Johns ambulance first-aider placed five "butterfly" stitches on the
wound and warned Jason he might have to go to hospital.

The next morning when Paul went to wake Jason, the bandage and
dressing were on a bedside table.

His parents examined his hand. There was no sign of a cut or a scar.

Just after Christmas 1996, Jason woke up when the weather was below
freezing outside. His skin was red, like he had been sunbathing. By
the end of the day he had returned to his normal winter pallor. In
June that year, Jason was seen by the family GP [Doctor], Dr Karen
Parks. In a letter, she said: "Jason has shown me marks on his left
side, stating this is where the 'creatures' cut into him.

"I do not know what to make of them. I haven't seen anything like
this before."

Jason was examined by school psychologist Dr Pauline Stevenson who
was satisfied that the youngster was not mentally ill.

FACE IN THE WINDOW: In November 1996, Jason had become so depressed
Ann took him and three pals on holiday to a mobile home at
Allhallows in Kent.

Ann was relieved to see Jason smiling again. But on the Wednesday
night she was woken by his screaming. She rushed to the room he
shared with his best friend Mark. Jason was standing by the bed.

The screaming stopped as Jason realised that she was there. He said:
"Don't touch me, you mustn't touch me," In tears, Ann turned to
leave the room. Jason spoke softly: "Mum, they're making me feel and
see what they feel and see. I'll be all right."

-[continued in part 2]-








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 15

                  {91} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network

From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 20:08:53 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 22:32:58 -0400
Subject: {91} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network

        ______ _______ ____
------ /  /  //  ____//    |----------------------------------------------
 U K  /  /  //  ___/ /  /  '                               15th April 1998
     /  /  //  /    /  /  /  N E T W O R K                 part 2 Issue 91
--- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------

The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with
subscribers in over 40 countries.

This issue comes in 4 parts. If any part is missing please mail:
ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be
reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject
section e.g.  Repost {91} part 1, part 2, part 3 or part 4.

_____________________

Later Jason behaved as though nothing had happened.

Early next morning, sounds in the living room woke Ann at 3am.

She wandered nervously into the living room. Things had been moved.

Suddenly a chill swept over her. There on the glass window pane was
an image of what appeared to be a face. The features were well
defined.

It was a face - but not a human one. Ann copied the image as
accurately as possible. The picture she drew is above [printed in
the newspaper]. Later Jason said: "I didn't think they'd find me
here. Not here on holiday.

WATCHERS IN THE WOODS: Since Tuesday, September 12, 1995, Ann and
Paul have been convinced they have been under surveillance.

Their smallholding backs on to thick overgrown woods, owned by an
Arab consortium. Behind that is a Ministry of Defence base.

On May 8 last year Ann had a terrifying experience.

She was walking across a field when she saw a "head" peep out from
behind a tree and disappear again. It reappeared and ducked back. It
was only four feet off the ground. The head was white and with such
indistinct features that Ann could not make them out.

She called Paul but, as he approached, a figure fled from behind the
tree and crashed noisily into the thick, bramble undergrowth.

Paul put it down to vandals, but their escape route did not make
sense - their skin would be ripped to shreds. Ann knows what she saw
was NOT human.

She says: The face was so pale, almost luminous. The head seemed
hairless and too big for a human.

"The movement was really odd, a gliding motion that was smooth. It
was as if it was hovering just inches above the ground."

CATTLE: In 1989 every one of Paul's herd of 22 calves and seven
sheep died from a rare strain of salmonella which baffled their vet.

The Ministry of Agriculture told Paul to dispose of the bodies by
incinerating them.

Later he received a call from a man claiming to be a Ministry
official who told Paul to keep the carcasses.

Soon after a black transit van pulled up and a tall thin man dressed
in a white coverall suit, complete with hood, leapt out. He told
Paul: "We're from the Ministry."

He and five more "spacemen" in white suits loaded the carcasses into
another lorry which lumbered into the yard. The two vehicles drove
off along the dirt track. At that moment Jason and his brother Daniel
returned from school. They had been dropped at the bottom of the
lane - but had seen no van.

Five years later Paul was told the Ministry of Agriculture did not
have a flying task force of vans and men.

The normal procedure after a salmonella outbreak is still to burn
the carcasses on the farm.

HORSES: Paul discovered his horse, Shannon, had had a large flap cut
in his shoulder. There was only a small amount of blood.

The vet said it was a deliberate incision and that layers of tissue
below the skin had been removed.

Strangely, Shannon stood still and showed no sign of pain while the
vet stitched the wound.

It seemed to Ann that the horse had already been anaesthetised.

At the time, the family knew nothing of a strange spate of animal
mutilations which appear to have some connection with alien
activity.

Ann noted in her diary for February 14 that all six horses,
including the foal, were limping on the nearside back leg. Every
animal had an identical bloodless wound in the same place on the rear
leg. The wounds healed quickly.

COWS: In spring 1996 Paul bought four pregnant cows - three
Charolais heifers and an older Jersey cow.

The farmer who sold them said all four would calve around September.
During the summer Ann and Paul watched the cows swell and felt their
carves kicking. But September came and went without any births. In
fact, all four looked thinner.

In November, when Ann arrived at the smallholding she found deep cow
hoofprints in the mud OUTSIDE the gate as if the cattle had been
moving around in a circle. But there were no prints leading to or
from the place, even though mud was everywhere.

Then Ann pointed to a boot print. There was only one - Paul
estimated it to be a size 15. They raced to the barn. The cattle were
there, but clearly disturbed.

The vet latter announced that only two of the cows were pregnant but
the calves would not be born until the following spring - six months
overdue.

ANIMAL DEATHS: In 1995, the farm cat was found dead in the barn.
There was a neat hole in her head but no blood. Paul and Ann blamed
vandals. But Ann felt uneasy. To her the cat looked as if it had been
stretched out on a medical slab. The precision of the bore hole did
not have the mark of vandalism.

A few months later they found a fox with the same strange injury.

On Friday, August 26th 1996, Jason went to the farm with his parents
- and recoiled in horror.

Four dead mice were laid out in a line near the gate. Each one had a
small hole, not much bigger than a pin prick in the forehead, the
left eye missing, and the rectum cut out.

One had lost part of its stomach, another had its jawbone exposed
and one had its left paw cut off.

PREMONITIONS: Jason began to have premonitions. One incident has
been confirmed by all involved.

Paul was grazing two pregnant mares on land belonging to neighbours
Billy and Sue Rutland.

On May 1, 1996, one of the mares, Honey, gave birth to a foal. The
mare was in perfect health.

But at 3.3+am, the family was woken by Jason screaming. He sobbed he
knew Honey was dead, repeating: "They didn't know she was ours."

Paul believed Jason had had a nightmare. But at 7am the Rutlands
daughter Laura phoned. She mumbled: "Honey's dead. Please come."

The mare's stomach appeared to have exploded. An investigation
concluded that the animal's stomach was in such a mess it was
impossible to give a cause of death.

1998 Ann Andrews and Jean Ritchie. Extracted from Abducted, The true
story of Alien Abduction in Rural England by Ann Andrews and Jean
Ritchie. Published by Headline in hardback at 16 pounds and 99 pence
and available in all bookshops.

---

Source: The Sun newspaper (UK)
Publish date: Wednesday 18th March 1998

The aliens are sharing my body...and my mind

Ann Andrews felt ridiculous as she explained to a stranger over the
phone that she thought her 12 year old son was being abducted by
aliens.

She expected a derisory laugh or perhaps a suggestion she should see
a psychiatrist.

Instead the well spoken man on the other end of the line was calm
and reassuring.

He did not ridicule her, or humour her.

Astonishingly, he reacted as if everything she said was perfectly
familiar.

Ex-cop and UFO investigator Tony Dodd was to become the person who
believed in them. He has helped the family cope since they realised
son Jason, now 14, was being regularly abducted.

Strange and apparently inexplicable things have surrounded the boy
almost since birth. He has vanished in the night, only to reappear
covered in mud and wounds which vanish within hours.

Ann, in her book Abducted, tells of seeing "aliens" around the
families ten-acre smallholding, which backs on to a Ministry of
Defence site near Crouch in Kent.

Their animals have been surgically mutilated and many died in
mysterious circumstances. Ann, and her husband Paul, both 41 - who
have another son Daniel, now 18 - promised Jason they would search
out the truth.

She met Tony after phoning Quest, a British based UFO investigative
organisation.

The hard bitten former police sergeant had, with two colleagues,
once witnessed a UFO over the North Yorkshire Moors.

He has researched UFOs for the last 20 years and is one of the
world's leading authorities.

Tony Dodd does not care whether you believe him. He knows what
happened to him and what has happened to thousands of others.

The majority of calls he receives will have a perfectly logical
explanation. Only around two cases in every 100 contain enough
unexplained evidence for him to investigate. The call from Ann
Andrews fell into this category. He quizzed her gently and
sympathetically.

Tony says: "Ann's answers rang true. I'm very suspicious of people
who state they, or someone in their family, are being abducted.

"Ann put it forward as a possibility. She wanted help.

"I got a strong feeling, as I do in genuine cases, that she
sincerely wished it would all go away."

Jason spent hours on the phone talking to Tony Dodd, recalling his
early memories of aliens haunting the house where the family then
lived in Slade Green, Kent.

He told Tony: "The first memory I have is hands. I was crying for
some reason and I can see long fingers - twice as long as Mum's with
large knuckles - reaching into the cot and picking me up."

As he gets older the memories of being taken in the night by a 5ft
4in alien and half a dozen smaller creatures became clearer. Jason
gets a tingling feeling in his head when he is about to be abducted.

He says: "It always happens at 3am. I see the creatures in my
bedroom. I never remember what happens immediately next.

"Sometimes I wake up and I'm lying on something smooth and cold. I
can't move or speak. I can see the big alien. Its head is large with
big black eyes on a slant and a small nose and mouth.

"I can see it touching me, but I never feel it. I'm always
terrified."

Jason remembers another night when he found himself at his parent's
smallholding, Hawksnest Farm, three miles from his present home in
Borough Green, Kent.

The next thing he knew he was being chased by a big brown animal. He
ran for a hole in the hedge which he knew was there.

He say: "It scratched me but I got through the hedge.

"I felt as if the aliens were with me, experiencing what I was
feeling. I felt, for the first time, they were protecting me." When
he woke up in bed at home, Jason was splattered with mud, deep
scratches covered his body.

Tony Dodd is convinced Jason is telling the truth.

He says: "If children are making up stories it is usually very easy
to trip them up."

One Sunday, as Jason was riding his favourite horse Patch, he became
aware THEY were there.

Unseen, the aliens were with him experiencing the exhilaration of
the ride. Jason knows that sometimes they share his feelings.

The ride ended badly. Another horse spooked Patch, who fell. Jason
expected to experience immediate pain. There was none.

For weeks afterwards his bruised arm bore a hoof mark where the
other horse had trodden on him. It was as though his uninvited guests
had absorbed all the agony.

Jason has refused to ride a horse since. He blames the aliens.

He says: "They don't enjoy it and don't want to get hurt again."

Ann was horrified. She called Tony Dodd: "You have got to do
something. He's somehow letting them share his own body, his mind.
They're experiencing things - and he's letting them."

Tony calmly explained this was not unusual. He shies away from the
word "alien." He calls them extra-terrestrial biological entities.
Tony told Ann that, according to research, the EBEs were apparently
incapable of feeling emotions but are interested in human experience
of them. To do that, they need a human host.

One night Ann and Paul were woken by Jason who told them: "Look out
that window, you will see them."

At first they could see nothing. Then Ann spotted a bright light
becoming bigger and brighter.

The last thing they remembered was their bedroom being flooded with
white light.

The next morning, Jason said in disgust: "You went to sleep, I had
to go with them again."

He described being taken into an enormous room with hundreds of
other people. On a giant screen was a picture of Earth.

Paul was listening attentively but Ann clutched Jason's arm
urgently. She knew exactly what he was going to say. She whispered:
"It blew up, didn't it? Then there was a low whistling sound, a
desolate sound, like a strange wind."

Jason nodded and smiled with relief. He whispered softly: "I knew
you were there. I saw you there."

Paul was in shock. He had resigned himself to his son's strange
life...but his wife too?

1998 Ann Andrews and Jean Ritchie. Extracted from Abducted, The true
story of Alien Abduction in Rural England by Ann Andrews and Jean
Ritchie. Published by Headline in hardback at 16 pounds and 99 pence
and available in all bookshops.

Check if you have been abducted

UFO investigator Tony Dodd has compiled a list of occurrences
experienced by people who claim to have been abducted by aliens.

1. Noises in the ears.

2. Nose bleeds.

3. Increased psychic abilities.

4. Strange unexplained marks appearing on the body overnight. They
usually disappear quickly.

5. Waking to find odd things have happened in the night -
nightclothes removed or inside out and waking in the wrong bed or
wrong room. In one case Tony investigated, an abductee woke wearing
clothes that he had never seen before.

6. Fear of the dark.

7. Strange lights appearing around the home.

8. Animals behaving strangely, like dogs barking at unseen objects.

---

Source: The Sun newspaper (UK)
Publish date: Thursday 19th March 1998

How do you fight something that can paralyse you, levitate you and
then float you out of the house through the walls?

Abducted - the book that proves the truth is out there

Adaption by Mike Ridley

Ann Andrews woke in the middle of the night as her bedroom filled
with a mysterious light.

The next instant, she claims, she was standing in a field on the
family's smallholding three miles away, still in her night clothes.

In an exclusive Sun serialisation this week of new book Abduction,
Ann has revealed how her 14 year old son Jason is repeatedly snatched
by aliens.

In today's final extract, she reveals how she came to realise that
she too, was being abducted.

Ann explains: "A second after the light began, without any sensation
of moving, I was in a clearing in the woods. There were large
spotlights around the edge of the clearing and half a dozen men in
navy blue or black overalls were working. One of the men smiled and
took me by the hand and led me to the centre of the clearing where a
makeshift animal pen had been built.

"Lying in the pen was our stallion, Cardi. I thought he was dead yet
I felt strangely emotionless. Then two of the men went inside and
knelt down.

"I could not make out what they were doing but Cardi woke up and
staggered to his feet. He wobbled as if he was coming round from an
anaesthetic.

"I was aware I ought to feel relief he was alive, but again I felt
detached.

"One of the men opened the gate and Cardi wandered slowly out and
disappeared into the woods."

It might sound like a dream. But the next morning Ann and husband
Paul went straight to their smallholding - Hawknest Farm, near Couch,
Kent. As they drove up the lane to the farm they met a girl who works
at the local stables leading Cardi. The groom had been riding when
she found the stallion wandering in the woods.

Ann drove on while Paul walked the horse home. When Ann reached the
farm the animals were clearly disturbed. When Paul returned he said
the stallion seemed "half-doped" but there was no sign of injury.

That made Ann realise that, like her son Jason, she was being
abducted by aliens. Ann, 41, believes she has been abducted all her
life, but it is only now that memories are coming back.

Asked what the future holds, Jason shrugs his shoulders and says he
does not see it ever getting better.

Nor does he seen himself ever learning to accept it.

Chillingly, he reveals how he had seriously contemplated suicide,
even going as far as to take a rope into the woods.

He talks about it with apparent indifference. Then suddenly the
reserve breaks and tears come to his eyes as he shouts angrily at
"Them," the strangers who have robbed him of his youth.

It was a sad moment, the sort many UFO sceptics ignore.

They demand proof and use the lack of it to dismiss the whole
subject as cranky.

But for Jason, and many thousands of people like him across the
world, the quest for proof is not important.

What matters is the search for a way of life.

Ex-cop and UFO investigator Tony Dodd says: "I wish I could promise
Jason it will stop but it is unlikely. Having been selected for
multiple abductions, I feel the aliens will follow him for many
years, probably all of his life."

In learning to live with it, Jason and his family have already taken
the first step.

Coping with abduction entirely alone makes victims miserable and
some question their own sanity.

Tony pulled no punches, explaining to Jason that there was "no
cure."

But by being open about his own experiences, he has helped Jason
come to terms with what is happening. He described his own abduction
to the boy and admitted: "We are all scared, not just you.

"I travel the world but I'm too afraid to entered a darkened room on
my own.

"They still come for me and, although I now accept they mean me no
harm, it still scares the hell out of me.

"It's easy to be calm and rational in the cold light of day, but
when night comes, so does the fear.

"Having seen their craft and awesome power, I know we can never stop
them. How the hell do you fight something that can not only paralyse
you, but can also levitate you and float you out of the house
through the walls?"

It was a speech that brought great comfort to Jason. If a grown man
could admit he was scared, then he had nothing to be ashamed of.

When Jason confided in a school friend about his abduction within
days he was being laughed at in the playground and dubbed Spaceboy
and E.T.

It was unsettling but Jason is resilient and survived with his
"street cred" intact.

At times, when a burst of paranormal activity is at its height, he
appears to be electrically charged. Touch him and you get a mild
shock.

Ann was burned by him badly enough to leave a scar.

Unfazed, Jason charges 10p a time to give them an electric shock.

Paul and Ann eventually plucked up the courage to tell other members
of their family how their son was suffering.

The reaction was mixed. Paul's mother Shirley was unwilling to
believe in aliens.

She could not agree to accept everything he said but promised to be
understanding and willing to listen to Jason. Ann's two brothers
reacted differently. Stephen believes and accepts his nephew's
story. David refuses to credit the alien story.

At first Stephen and his wife, Anita, had been unsure about the
alien story.

On a holiday in Greece they became friendly with a family from
Birmingham and after a few days the father confided they were on
holiday to rest and bring normality to their lives.

He told them he was an abductee. It took courage to confess it and
at first Stephen reacted by treating it as a joke.

It was only when he heard the full story that he was struck by the
similarity to the stories his sister told about Jason.

When he returned home, Stephen rang Ann to apologise for not taking
her seriously.

Looking at everything that has happened to him in his short life,
Jason says: "Perhaps I have been chosen, perhaps I am special, maybe
one day I will understand.

"But now I'd just like it to stop. I want them to leave me alone. I
want them to let me be ordinary."

1998 Ann Andrews and Jean Ritchie. Extracted from Abducted, The true
story of Alien Abduction in Rural England by Ann Andrews and Jean
Ritchie. Published by Headline in hardback at 16 pounds and 99 pence
and available in all bookshops.

Victims 'telling truth'

John Mack - professor of psychiatry at America's highly respected
Harvard Medical School - turned down a request to examine a man who
claimed that he was being abducted.

His reaction was that the man, Budd Hopkins, was "crazy."

Later, Mack agreed to see Hopkins because he was confident he would
find a psychological cause for people to "imagine" they were being
abducted. Mack found nothing wrong with Hopkins.

He went on to study 100 abductees. Their age, sex and family
circumstances threw up no common patterns.

He concluded that, apart from the stress caused by the abduction,
they are normal, sane people with no psychiatric problem.

He now believes that abductees are telling the truth.

[UK 6]******

Source: Daily Mail newspaper
Publish date: Saturday 21st March 1998

Abducted by aliens

(or was this young boy carried away by the UFO lobby, a
distinguished writer and publishing hype?)

by James Dalrymple

JASON ANDREWS looks you in the eye when he speaks. He is eager to do
well, and although he mumbles and shrugs a lot, he tries hard to
stick to the basic facts of his story.

On the surface, there seem to be but two  possibilities. At Just 14
years old he is either a born liar capable of playing the leading
role in an elaborate hoax. Or is he speaking the truth when he tells
his extraordinary story of being taken from his bed in the night by
creatures from beyond the Earth?

Experts have been throwing questions at Jason for several years.
Doctors, social workers, psychiatrists, investigative journalists -
they have all had a crack at him.

His medical and education records could fill a filing cabinet. His
family have been examined down to the smallest detail - and
exonerated.

The boy is not psychotic. He has not been the victim of abuse. Nor
has he been coerced into a conspiracy. His family may be
impoverished, but every expert has concluded that it is a close and
loving one.

So how can we explain his complex and eerie tale? His skinny body
shows no evidence that it has been sliced open by long, gleaming
fingers using strange instruments. Yet his parents say they have
seen large scars on his side and his stomach. Scars that disappeared
within hours.

And his school record makes it unlikely he could reel off complex
mathematical equations, with numbers running into the billions, or
speak fluently in strange, crooning languages.

Yet his family say they have seen and heard him doing precisely
that, in a trance-like state, in a voice sometimes deep and harsh,
sometimes soft and melodic.

These events and many others, we are being asked to believe, have
all happened to this ordinary boy from Hawksnest Farm in rural Kent.

In a new book, Jason and his family reveal the story of a long
series of visitations by aliens who have targeted him (and sometimes
his mother) for their experiments into the minds, hearts and bodies
of earthlings.

Since Jason was four, the Andrews claim, they have been subjected to
every type of extraterrestrial invasion. Small creatures, tall
creatures, kind ones, sinister ones, some with huge round eyes, some
in hoods and with dark features, others fair-skinned and ethereal,
have all appeared in the various homes they have lived in.

SOMETIMES they appear flooded in brilliant light and merely move
about the rooms, sometimes they transport Jason to another place and
lay him on a smooth, cold slab and conduct experiments on him.

In the morning Jason often has long scars on his body, but by tea
time they have disappeared. His father, Paul, says he has seen one
such scar vanishing before his eyes.

The boy says the aliens can communicate to him through thought. He
believes they have implanted devices inside him. They can blank out
tape recorders and make cameras inoperable. They can induce coma-
like sleep on the rest of the family, instantly silence barking dogs
and 'freeze' farmyard birds and animals into immobile statues.

-[continued in part 3]-






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                 Re: 91} part 3 - United Kingdom UFO Network

From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 20:08:55 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 22:46:20 -0400
Subject: Re: 91} part 3 - United Kingdom UFO Network

        ______ _______ ____
------ /  /  //  ____//    |----------------------------------------------
 U K  /  /  //  ___/ /  /  '                               15th April 1998
     /  /  //  /    /  /  /  N E T W O R K                 part 3 Issue 91
--- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------

The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with
subscribers in over 40 countries.

This issue comes in 4 parts. If any part is missing please mail:
ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be
reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject
section e.g.  Repost {91} part 1, part 2, part 3 or part 4.

________________________

They can produce visions of the Earth blowing up on vast TV screens
and present these images to Jason and his mother simultaneously.

Mostly, such visitations are benign. But once, claims his mother,
Ann, they came to her in the night and painlessly induced a
miscarriage, implanting a voice in her mind that told her: 'It's all
for the best.'

There is much more in the same vein. Their story, told in a
compelling book by a respected and talented British journalist,
author of 13 books and an expert in the field of the paranormal,
could well be a best- seller.

Such accounts have already made fortunes in America, where alien
abductions have become a media sensation and have involved
mainstream scientists. Already, TV and film companies are said to be
interested.

All of this has been highly profitable. The Andrews family have been
mostly broke for years, sometimes living on less than 15 pounds a
week. The only asset they have ever owned is the scrubby little ten-
acre smallholding, near the village of Borough Green, which they
bought nine years ago for 25,000 pounds.

They live in a nearby council house. But every day the family move
up to their much-loved scrap of land and tend to their livestock - a
few ponies and a flock of geese.

Now all that has changed. The money will soon be rolling in. They are
already guaranteed some 60,000 pounds from the book, including money
from The Sun, who serialised it this week. They have their own agent
and the celebrity chat show circuit beckons.

'I'd be a hypocrite if I said the money wasn't nice,' said Ann. 'But
we never wanted to go public, and I never saw it as an opportunity
to make money.

WE THOUGHT long and hard about doing the book, and it was only after
big family discussions that we were persuaded it would help others.

The book's author, Jean Ritchie, is also quick to point out that if
she had never stumbled on the story in a copy of a magazine about
UFOs, the Andrews family would have remained in obscurity.

'I thought it would make a good magazine piece,' she said. 'But when
I met Ann and read her diary I saw that it was far more important
than that. I began as a total sceptic, but now I have an open mind.

'I feel they are telling the truth. I checked everything they told
me, including the medical records. I have the names of all the
doctors who were involved and there is no doubt they were mystified
by what the boy was telling them.

'There is no doubt Jason was suffering from strange injuries and
illnesses at the times when he claims he was abducted. There is
clear evidence of scarring and strange marks on his body. And
throughout it all Jason was consistent.

'One thing I am sure of: Ann and Paul Andrews are not liars out to
make money.'

There are two things to remember with alien abduction stories. One
is that they are almost comically derivative. If you have read one
you have read them all.

All aliens look the same. They all have saucer eyes, pointed heads
and are inherently benign. If they were monsters no one would ever
get back to their beds. Nothing new in the literature has appeared
in half a century, since the first B- movies of the Forties and
Fifties.

Second, the victims of abductions cannot lose. It is impossible to
disprove a paranormal invention. All they have to do is get their
story right and stick to it. If witnesses say you never left the
house that night, you simply devise a scenario when every one else
in the house was zapped into frozen immobility for several hours.

Why didn't the video camera and the tape recorder set up to capture
the aliens see the bright lights and hear the noises? Because they
knock out all electronic equipment. And so on. For each reasonable
question there is an unreasonable but complete answer. The aliens
have all power.

So are the Andrews just liars and fantasists trying to earn a little
media money? The answers to these questions are fascinating and
complex.

AND the answers, in turn, pose intriguing questions about so much of
the burgeoning UFO industry. There is no doubt Jason was a disturbed
little boy. He suffered from bad dreams and he sleep-walked. Both he
and his older brother, Daniel, told their mother they had seen
things in the night.

Jason's schooling was a disaster. He began to be disruptive and was
threatened with expulsion. He was forced to undergo psychiatric
counselling.

Up until that point neither of his parents made any claims of alien
intervention. Then Paul got some books from the library. And they
began to immerse themselves in the cult of alien visitation and
abduction.

The possibilities of this childlike rubbish are endless. Every
dream, every small family crisis, every strange sound, every odd
piece of behaviour by their pets, even a lightbulb blowing, becomes a
sign of alien intervention. The Andrews family became instant
converts.

'Suddenly, it all made sense,' said Ann. 'We knew we had found the
answer.'

What she had found was an elaborate potpourri of pseudo- scientific
mumbo-jumbo, invented by largely harmless obsessives, that has
become a flourishing industry in the Western world.

They contacted one of the leading British 'authorities' on this
phenomenon, an agency called Quest, and were eagerly welcomed to the
fold by Tony Dodd, a retired Yorkshire policeman who styles himself
Director of Investigations.

For Dodd the Andrews family were the find of a lifetime. He became
their guru and protector. Using the gaudy terminology of the genre,
he explained each of Jason's symptoms and instructed them what to
look out for.

Above all, he told them they were special, chosen people. Nobody had
ever done that before with the Andrews. It was like the opening of
floodgates. Ann, who had never felt any connection to all this,
suddenly began to remember childish visions, which eventually led to
a whole slew of 'recovered memories', including the miscarriage
induced by aliens.

The family attended UFO conferences and soaked up the lore of it
all. Ann began to see the faces of the aliens herself, drew pictures
of them, and began a diary of invasion. By the time Ritchie stumbled
upon the story the entire family were already well- read in every
facet of alienism.

They became convinced that Government scientists were removing their
dead animals, that the council was conspiring against them and that
strange military activity was taking place in a nearby Territorial
Army base. They began to produce endless anecdotal evidence that
their isolated farm was surrounded by strange forces which had the
power to immobilise their animals and geese into living statues.
After this came a series of mutilations to their horses.

ONE horse was discovered to have a large flap of skin hanging loose.
But there was no blood or damage to the tissue and the animal wasin
no discomfort.

'The vet said he had never seen anything like it,' said Paul
Andrews. 'And he was able to stitch the flap back without sedating
the animal'

At another time they noticed that all their horses had become lame
in the same back leg. 'There were little round boles that seemed to
have been punched into the flesh,' said Ann. 'Again the horses
didn't seem to be suffering.'

The Quest investigators loved all this. Animal mutilation is a major
issue for them. It proves, for them, that aliens are testing for
toxins in living creatures.

One day the family found four dead mice laid out in a neat row near
the gate to the farm, each one with a tiny hole in it's skull. This,
ironically is the only hard piece of evidence the family have ever
produced. And they are very proud or the snapshot of the dead mice.

Ritchie could find no chink in it- because there was none. An entire
family was by now immersed in what the psychologists call passive
group hysteria, and the fact that they could produce not a single
tape recording, photograph of the 'visitors', or physical injury was
explained away by the common response: the aliens were so far
advanced in technology that they could do anything.

Ritchie did try to contact the medical and school authorities, but
got nowhere. She talks of Jason's medical records, but she didn't
actually see them; she only saw the notes which his mother had made
from them.

After months practically living with the family, Ritchie produced
her 80,000-word blockbuster. She, too, is now part of their world
her next book will be into other aspects of alien intervention.

It may be impossible to expose an illusion-but it is easy enough to
see the essential silliness that lies at the heart of it. All you
have to do is spend some time with the boy himself sitting in the
tiny wooden shed at the farm where some of these strange events
happened, I put him through his paces and the whole charade began to
collapse.

In two hours of questioning he rarely gave a full answer. Within
moments of our interview beginning both his mother and Jean Ritchie
were jumping in.

When I quoted specific incidents In the book, in which he talks in
great detail, he faltered repeatedly, and each time the two women
moved in with answers: 'Don't you remember, Jason, that was the time
you saw the one you called the Monk,' says his mum. 'The one with
the hood.'

'You saw the Instruments in his hands, didn't you Jason?' suggests
Ritchie. Again and again, under prompting, he tried his best. 'Yeah.
uh, like I remember seeing the Monk, with a sorts hood thing. I
sensed he was wise, you now ... oh could see something in his hand.'

Again and again he missed his cue. Did you feel any pain when you
woke with the scars in your body? He looked blank for a moment, then
finally decided to ignore the question. We looked at each other in
silence. I felt sorry for him.

Eventually he began to run out of answers of any detail at all. From
then on his only reply to any of my questions was: 'I, uh, don't
remember things too clearly. That's why I always run into my Mum's
room and tell her to write it all down. She knows it all.' And he
looked at her pleadingly.

Did you hear them speaking? 'You think you hear things. Sometimes I
hear some funny voices ... coming from somewhere ... like, uh, I'm
thinking things in my head ...'

Jean Ritchie breaks in, reminding him that they use telepathy. This
was allegedly the same boy who, in the book, can give this kind of
descriptive detail. 'There is a pattern to the bad nights, the
nights when things happen to me ...

'I've got a very good alarm clock, a state-of-the- digital one, and
it always stops at 3am. That's the time it happens... I always try
to go back to sleep, in the hope that nothing will happen, but then
I see something almost out of the corner of my eye.

'It rises up through the floor. It's a big one. There's only ever
one a big one. It's about 5ft 4in tall, just a bit shorter than me.

THE head is large, with big black eyes on a slant which go round the
side of the head, and a very small nose and mouth

'It's thin, and it has the long, dark fingers that I remember from my
baby days ... I'm aware of the little ones. I never see where they
come from, they're Just there ... They scuttle around. busy, busy,
busy, they never stay still.

'Sometimes they bring some other creatures with them. I call them
koalas because they are small and furry like bears ...'

When he began to look at the floor in silence, I had had enough.
Leaving the dilapidated little farm, I was rather glad that the
family were coming into their small fortune. They are nice people and
they almost certainly believe by now that they are telling the truth.

But I had a bad feeling about Jason. He is now locked forever into
his role as Britain's most famous alien abductee. Each day he will
have to face derision and hostility at a school where he once
suffered pain and rejection. And already, inside his extended
family, there is agrowlng anger at the publicity.

Jean Ritchie is central to all, of this. She is a talented writer
with the ability to give the stamp of authenticity to any story.
Whether she really believes this spider's web of nonsense or not is
something that only she knows.

But it is entirely due to her that two things will happen. A hard-up
and likeable family will become moderately rich and be feted briefly
on the celebrity circuit before being spat out and forgotten.

And a rather lonely young boy, who has shown evidence of emotional
and behavioural problems, will become a kind of freak show.

ABDUCTED, by Ann Andrews and Jean Ritchie, is published by Headline
Book Publishing Ltd at 16 pounds 99 pence.

[UK 7]******

Source: Daily Mail newspaper
Publish date: Saturday 21st March 1998

Private rocket nosedives after four seconds above Dartmoor

By Nick Constable

A PLUME of thick smoke over Dartmoor bore testimony yesterday to the
short flight of Starchaser III.

Amateur rocket scientist Steve Bennett had seen his dream of
launching a British space mission end in only four seconds.

His rocket managed a mere 200fh before a major malfunction. Instead
of soaring 15,000ft into the skies, the 4401b-rocket veered crazily
into the side of a heather-clad valley on a military firing range.

The 2Oft-long craft - the result of two years' work and 70,000 pound
in sponsorship - bounced twice before exploding.

It scattered flaming debris and rocket fuel across a wide area of
tinder-dry grass. Fanned by a stiff breeze, flames spread across
several miles of moorland. Mr Bennett, 33- year-old director of the
Space Technology Lab at Salford University, led students who
attempted to damp down the flames before the fire brigade arrived.

Soldiers from the nearby military camp at Okehampton were brought in
to help fight the fire.

All civilians were moved away from the crash area because of fears -
that artillery shells buried on the firing range might explode. The
occasional bang could be heard as live ammunition caught fire.

By last night fire officers, who could not venture off the roads for
fear of explosion, had decided, to let the fire burn itself out.

With hindsight, Mr Bennett said it would have probably been a good
idea to have had the fire brigade standing by. He said his party did
have a couple of fire extinguishers. Police said they were 'very
surrised' that the fire brigade had not been alerted beforehand and
talked about Mr Bennett 'footing the bill' for the fire-fighting
operation.

-[continued in part 4]-






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   Apr > Apr 16

                  Re: Hoagland on Bell and Cydonia Pictures

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 23:32:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 00:28:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Hoagland on Bell and Cydonia Pictures


>From: "Keith Woodard" <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
>To: "UFO Updates" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Excerpts from last night's Art Bell interview with Richard
>Hoagland
>Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 08:14:16 -0700

>Art:  ...I'm getting from a number people who are sending me
>email...there are people who are seeing BUILDINGS, I repeat,
>BUILDINGS in the new photographs!

>Richard: Absolutely, I'm looking at it myself.  On the lower
>right hand corner, alright...

><snip>

>Art: I mean I've got people -- let me read it to you.  It says,
>"You can see straight lines and shadows, also what appear to be
>doorways, I repeat, doorways and several buildings!

>Richard: Yup.  No question.

>Art: You agree!

>Richard: Abso -- I'm looking at them!

<snip>

>Richard:  This is a very historic night, Mr. Bell, a very
>historic night.


AAAARRRRGHHHH!

Higher resolution pictures will show Martians walking around in
space suits.

It looks to me as if the "city" was flooded out (and the face was
punched it).






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   Apr > Apr 16

                 'Santa Claus' mentioned on Moon Mini-Series

From: Scott Hale <shale@columbus.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 22:54:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 00:26:26 -0400
Subject: 'Santa Claus' mentioned on Moon Mini-Series

On the HBO series From the Earth to the Moon there was mention of
Jim Lovell's comment "There is a Santa Claus." This was rumored
to be a code for UFO. I just thought it was interesting to see
that dialogue mentioned on the program, even though it probably
meant nothing at all.



Best Wishes,
Scott K. Hale








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   Apr > Apr 16

                               Re: Betty Hill

From: "Marigold" <ZIAZ@prodigy.net> [Carol Morres]
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 18:27:57 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 00:36:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Betty Hill

Hi!

Most of what your List sends is too technical for me, but I'm
glad to see there are those out there searching for UFO truths
from a scientific standpoint as well as keeping an open mind,
weeding out  the nonsense as much as possible.

Being an old-timer, I was pleased to see comments from Betty Hill
as I remember her experience well and think she is genuine.  Does
anyone know if she has an e-mail address?







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   Apr > Apr 16

                  Re: Hoagland on Bell and Cydonia Pictures

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:29:52 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 00:30:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Hoagland on Bell and Cydonia Pictures

> From: "Keith Woodard" <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
> To: "UFO Updates" <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Excerpts from last night's Art Bell interview with Richard Hoagland
> Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 08:14:16 -0700

> Art:  ...I'm getting from a number people who are sending me
> email...there are people who are seeing BUILDINGS, I repeat,
> BUILDINGS in the new photographs!
> Richard: Absolutely, I'm looking at it myself.  On the lower
> right hand corner, alright...
> Art: I mean I've got people -- let me read it to you.  It says,
> "You can see straight lines and shadows, also what appear to be
> doorways, I repeat, doorways and several buildings!
> Richard: Yup.  No question.
> Art: You agree!
> Richard: Abso -- I'm looking at them!
> Richard:  This is a very historic night, Mr. Bell, a very
> historic night.

It's worse than I thought.

--
Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca
(and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca)
University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada






   UFO UpDates
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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 16

                            Re: Document Request

From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com> [Gary ALevy]
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 21:36:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 00:24:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Document Request

> Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 00:51:13 +0000
> From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Document Request

> Dear Errol,

> Can anyone help provide me with a copy of the Senator Russell UFO
> sighting report that he made in the l950's in the USSR.

> Thanks,

> Philip.

Philip,


This is the reference you requested:

Air Intelligence Information Report IR 193-55: Observations of
Travelers in U.S.S.R October 14, 1955, RG (Records Group) 341
Entry 267, File 5-2500, MMB, NA. (National Archives)

An interesting story is told regarding this report supposedly
when Russell was being debriefed on his report of the flying
saucer sighting it was considered too hot to conduct in the
embassy, Russian surveillance was pretty effective too.

Gary






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 16

                                     Re:

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 23:32:29 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 00:29:54 -0400
Subject: Re:


>Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:38:11 -0700
>From: "Terry J. Blanton" <commengr@bellsouth.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

<snip>

>While my faith meter has improved slightly, it would get a bigger
>jolt by having the photographer come forward. The ability to
>create an amazingly realistic image is easily within the realm of
>the home PC. Software has come a long way and I doubt I would
>believe any anomalous image on the merits of the image alone. I
>put more faith in the testimony of the witnesses. I've been
>burned by more than one anonymous video.

The "ability to create.....easily....." is being given a severe
test. I suspect that images/videos created "easily" will pass
only the cursory examination...... and not rigorous testing.
However..... we shall see.....






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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 16

                  {91} part 4 - United Kingdom UFO Network

From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 20:08:53 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 00:15:59 -0400
Subject: {91} part 4 - United Kingdom UFO Network

        ______ _______ ____
------ /  /  //  ____//    |----------------------------------------------
 U K  /  /  //  ___/ /  /  '                               15th April 1998
     /  /  //  /    /  /  /  N E T W O R K                 part 4 Issue 91
--- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------

The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with
subscribers in over 40 countries.

This issue comes in 4 parts. If any part is missing please mail:
ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be
reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject
section e.g.  Repost {91} part 1, part 2, part 3 or part 4.

Some of Mr Bennett's students looked close to tears as they surveyed
the wreckage of a craft described as 'the most sophisticated private
civilian rocket'. Little more than Starchaser's tall fin survived
intact. Mr Bennett, a former tester in a tooth paste factory, said:
'We had a bit of a problem. I was trying to light seven motors
together, but a couple  ignited before the others and it hit the side
of the hill about three or four hundred yards away.

'One has these ups and downs.'

He pledged to go back to the drawing board and also raise the
necessary 40,000 pound to build Starchaser 3A and continue the quest
for the 6 million pound prize offered by an American company for the
first private rocket in space. 'We will fire it and it will be
successful.'

Just before the launch, Mr Bennett spoke eagerly of blasting himself
into space some time after the Millennium.

His success with his Starchaser II rocket in 1996, made in the
garage of his house at Dukinfleld, allowed him to give up his
factory job and concentrate on his dream with a team at Salford
University.

He insisted yesterday that his attempt to put a satellite into low
earth orbit - opening up cheap satellite launches for private UK
companies - would continue.

A spokesman for the University of Salford said: 'Everyone is
terribly disappointed. But Steve is a committed professional. He
will learn from this.'


World News
==========

[W 1]******

Source: The Sun newspaper (UK)
Publish date: Wednesday 18th March 1998-03-18

Firm to send clips of hair into space

A U.S. firm will send clips of hair into space for 30 pounds, saying
aliens could use the DNA to make a clone. Their rocket goes up in
2001.

[W 2]******

uk.ufo.nw says: This is a follow up from the last issues [W 12]
article.

Source: CNN
Date: 25th March 1998
From: Doug Roberts <doug@littlegreenmen.demon.co.uk>

"My predictions...can be considered nonsense"

Teacher Chen

UFO cult calm as God misses predicted TV appearance

GARLAND, Texas (CNN) -- Members of God's Salvation Church gathered
at a member's house Tuesday night, waiting for a sign. Chen
Heng-Ming, known to his followers as "Teacher Chen," had said that
God would appear on television channel 18 worldwide at 12:01 a.m.
CST, and in person via flying saucer on March 31.

When the hour arrived, the set showed nothing but static.

"Because we did not see God's message on television tonight, my
predictions of March 31 can be considered nonsense," Chen said
through an interpreter.

Chen's followers gathered at a cult member's house to watch for
God's appearance.

"I hope that everybody can still have the true belief in God, in the
existence of God. Even though the image doesn't show on the
television, I don't have any reason to doubt the existence of the
supreme being, God."

Chen, who said he would offer himself for stoning or crucifixion if
his prophecies did not come to pass, says he will stay in Garland
"to continue studying and researching." He insists that his followers
are free to go their own way, and have always been.

Chen, who claims he fathered Jesus 2,000 years ago and now talks to
God through a ring on his finger, brought his followers from Taiwan
to the Dallas suburbs to await God's appearance. The 150 members, who
dress all in white, from their sneakers to their cowboy hats, sold
everything back home moved to Garland because, they say, it sounds
like "God's land."

The 'ship'

The group also built what they called a spaceship out of radial
tires and plywood, and stocked a shrine with fruit, cola and crackers
for God's arrival.

Police cordoned off a 165-house area where the group lives, fearing
the group might resort to suicide if God did not appear. Chen
insisted that there was no threat of a mass suicide like that of the
Heaven's Gate cult a year ago, almost to the day.

"They've been model citizens," said Garland police Lt. Don Martin
Tuesday night.. But, he said, "We would be remiss in our duties if
we didn't consider that option."

Religious experts say the Salvation Church, whose members include
doctors, engineers and teachers, is typical of the kind of religious
groups that spring up at the end of a century.

"They are comfortable with technology as a means through which
spiritual powers can work," said Lonnie Kliever, a professor at
Southern Methodist University.

A neighbor says she does not mind having the sect next door.

"They are not loud. They keep up their places nice. We could use
more neighbors like them," said Bonnie Nichols.

[W 3]******

uk.ufo.nw says: We would like to hear from anyone who has further
information or articles on the below reports - or just your thoughts
on the matter. Send you mail to:

ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk

with: CLINTONS JET

as the subject.


Source: ITN News (UK major news network)
Date: Wednesday 11th March 1998
From: "Lloyd Bayliss" <Lloyd@gwent-tertiary.ac.uk>

Investigation into Clinton jet radar loss

The Federal Aviation Administration said it was investigating a
report that an air traffic control radar screen had briefly lost
President Bill Clinton's aircraft.

New York television station WNBC-TV and the newspaper Newsday
reported that Air Force One disappeared from the radar screen in the
regional control center on Long Island for over 20 seconds as
Clinton flew to Connecticut on Tuesday morning.

Radio contact was never lost with the plane, the reports said.

FAA spokesman Les Dorr said the radar tapes were being reviewed to
determine what actually happened. "We can't say one way or another
what happened because we're still reviewing the tapes," he said.


Alien Humour
------------

How many aliens does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

Only two, but they have to be very very small to fit in the
lightbulb.

--

"We're too late! It's already been here."

"Mulder, I hope you know what you're doing."

"Look, Scully, just like the other homes: Douglas fir, truncated,
mounted, transformed into a shrine; halls decked with boughs of
holly; stockings hung by the chimney, with care."

"You really think someone's been here?"

"Someone, or something."

"Mulder, over here--it's a fruitcake."

"Don't touch it! Those things can be lethal."

"It's O.K. There's a note attached: 'Gonna find out who's naughty
and nice.'"

"It's judging them, Scully. It's making a list."

"Who? What are you talking about?"

"Ancient mythology tells of an obese humanoid entity who could
travel at great speed in a craft powered by antlered servants. Once a
year, near the winter solstice, this creature is said to descend from
the heavens to reward its followers and punish disbelievers with
jagged chunks of anthracite."

"But that's legend, Mulder--a story told by parents to frighten
children. Surely you don't believe it?"

"Something was here tonight, Scully. Check out the bite marks on
this gingerbread man. Whatever tore through this plate of cookies was
massive--and in a hurry."

"It left crumbs everywhere. And look, Mulder, this milk glass has
been completely drained."

"It gorged itself, Scully. It fed without remorse."

"But why would they leave it milk and cookies?"

"Appeasement. Tonight is the Eve, and nothing can stop its wilding."

"But if this thing does exist, how did it get in? The doors and
windows were locked. There's no sign of forced entry."

"Unless I miss my guess, it came through the fireplace."

"Wait a minute, Mulder. If you're saying some huge creature landed
on the roof and came down this chimney, you're crazy. The flue is
barely six inches wide. Nothing could get down there.

"But what if it could alter its shape, move in all directions at
once?"

"You mean, like a bowl full of jelly?"

"Exactly. Scully, I've never told anyone this, but when I was a
child my home was visited. I saw the creature. It had long white
shanks of fur surrounding its ruddy, misshapen head. Its bloated
torso was red and white. I'll never forget the horror. I turned away,
and when I looked back it had somehow taken on the facial features of
my father."

"Impossible."

"I know what I saw. And that night it read my mind. It brought me a
Mr.Potato Head, Scully. It knew that I wanted a Mr. Potato Head!"

"I'm sorry, Mulder, but you're asking me to disregard the laws of
physics. You want me to believe in some supernatural being who soars
across the skies and brings gifts to good little girls and boys.
Listen to what you're saying. Do you understand the repercussions?
If this gets out, they'll close the X-files."

"Scully, listen to me: It knows when you're sleeping. It knows when
you're awake."

"But we have no proof."

"Last year, on this exact date, SETI radio telescopes detected
bogeys in the airspace over twenty-seven states. The White House
ordered a Condition Red."

"But that was a meteor shower."

"Officially. Two days ago, eight prized Scandinavian reindeer
vanished from the National Zoo, in Washington, D.C. Nobody--not even
the zookeeper--was told about it. The government doesn't want people
to know about Project Kringle. They fear that if this thing is proved
to exist the public will stop spending half its annual income in a
holiday shopping frenzy. Retail markets will collapse. Scully, they
cannot let the world believe this creature lives.

There's too much at stake. They'll do whatever it takes to insure
another silent night."

"Mulder,"

"Sh-h-h. Do you hear what I hear?"

"On the roof. It sounds like ... a clatter."

"The truth is up there. Let's see what's the matter."


---

A FEARFUL SYMMETRY

A TRUE STORY OF ALIEN INTRUSION INTO HUMAN LIVES

By D. Lynne Bishop

A FEARFUL SYMMETRY Copyright 1995 by D. Lynne Bishop

All rights reserved. No part of this publication may be reproduced,
stored in a retrieval system or transmitted in any form or by any
means, electronic or mechanical including photocopying, recording or
otherwise without prior permission of the publisher, except by a
reviewer who may quote brief passages.

First Printing September 1995

Printed in the United States of America

BOOKFINDER PUBLISHING

http://bookfinder.simplenet.com/

Lynne Bishop's home page

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3862/

---

CHAPTER 13

I was withdrawn and moody at work that day, and spoke with Linda, my
friend and co-worker, about the abduction.  To my surprise, she
asked what time it had occurred, and looked a bit shocked when I told
her it had begun about 1:09 A.M., and ended at 2:37 A.M.  She told me
she was awake at 1:00, because her husband (a policeman) had just
come in from patrol.  She had glanced out their backdoor, and saw a
brilliant white light flying quickly toward the town where I lived.
It had no strobes and no other colors, and didn't move quite like any
aircraft they'd been used to seeing.  Circumstantial evidence at
best, this information still put a chill in me.

The days crept by following the encounter, and I met each day with an
icy numbness, as I accepted and integrated the memories from December
1.  My husband and I puzzled over several aspects of the experience,
and saw the faint origins of a pattern showing in the abductions.
The two conscious events had occurred roughly two months apart.  If
this indicated a set time-frame, it would be possible to try some
experimentation.  Also, if the abductions were going to happen
consistently, I could be better prepared to handle the situation and
control my reactions.  Intrigued by the idea of further
experimentation, we decided to borrow my mother's voice-activated
tape recorder.  It became a nightly ritual: turning on the recorder
and speaking into it to make sure it was working.  On replay each
morning, the various night sounds ran to marker twelve or fourteen,
but nothing interesting was showing up. Still, we continued with the
experiment, hoping we would capture something unusual on tape.

On December 7, my brother telephoned to ask if he could look at the
transcripts from my sessions.  He was unaware of my encounter on
December 1, and I thought this would be an opportunity to tell him I
had just had another conscious abduction.  I kept hoping the strange
experiences I was having would persuade him of the validity of the
phenomenon--but I had been unable to convince him of a physical
reality to the alien abduction scenario.  Still, it was worth
another try, so my husband and I bundled up the numerous pages and
drove to my brother's house.  Arriving at his home, we carted the
massive amounts of paper inside, and placed them on his dining room
table. My brother glanced at them briefly, and then said he had
something to tell me.

"Let me tell you my tale of woe," my brother stated.  I looked at
him with curiosity.  The tone of his voice was unusual, and I could
tell something was bothering him.  He proceeded to elaborate.  His
older daughter, a Licensed Practical Nurse, had arrived at the
hospital she worked at early on December 1.  Her supervisor had
seemed preoccupied, and after several minutes passed, had called my
brother's daughter aside, telling her she needed to tell her
something, but didn't want anyone else to overhear the conversation.
She said she had been enroute to work that morning, and around 5:00
or 5:30 A.M., had looked up into the still dark sky as she drove her
vehicle.  To her surprise, she saw a triangular-shaped craft of some
kind, with lights in a triangular pattern.  It shocked her, and she
decided to pull off the road to get a better look.  As she did so, a
truck behind her pulled off, also, and the driver, (a man), got out.
Both of them stared skyward, watching the object as it traversed the
sky in front of them.  They spoke to each other, to verify that both
were seeing the same thing.  After agreeing that they were, indeed,
seeing a craft of some kind, they watched in awe as a blue beam of
light was emitted from the craft.  The beam flashed toward the
ground below, and both of them ran toward their vehicles.  Neither
waited to see what would happen; the incident had taken on such a
high strangeness they could no longer watch.  The supervisor hadn't
asked the man's name, so there was no way to get verification of her
story, but she was positive she'd seen something not made or
controlled by any human agency.  Hoping for further details, my
brother had asked to speak with her, but she had refused any
interview.

When my brother finished his summary, he noticed I had become quiet.
He asked what was wrong, and I replied, "I had another conscious
encounter on December 1."  We both sat there in a daze for a moment,
as the implications registered in our minds.  Circumstantial
evidence was accruing at a formidable pace.  If only I could get hard
proof--something unimpeachable.

That proof, though, was remaining elusive.  The weeks continued to
pass without indication of any alien interaction.  We kept the tape
recorder by our bed, and faithfully checked it each evening and
morning.  The marker still ran to twelve or fourteen before ending,
and nothing of interest showed up.  My husband and I had realized
the abduction on December 1 occurred only days before we planned to
try videotaping, and this made us more determined to keep pushing for
substantial evidence.  Jack and Mary still reported nothing on their
video, but we all refused to give up.

The new year arrived, and we welcomed it with eagerness.  Almost a
year had passed since the day I first decided to discover what had
happened in my life, and I was no longer the terrified person I had
been.  The alien encounters had become a conscious part of my life,
and I had begun to take charge of my reactions to the phenomenon.
It had become extremely important to me to communicate with these
alien life-forms, whatever they were--to meet with them on equal
footing, and somehow force them to acknowledge me as a member of an
intelligent species.  Perhaps, I thought, I could attempt to ask
them for something, in return for whatever I was supplying them.

My husband and I discussed this possibility, and determined that I
should try to concentrate on a question to ask the creatures when
the abductions occurred.  I had been curious about an aspect of the
abductions:  it seemed that very few persons ever recalled the
actual entry into the ship, as if an amnesia were induced at that
point.  I decided to keep that question foremost in my mind.  Since
the entities by all accounts were telepathic, I reasoned they should
be able to pick up any thought that was vivid in my mind.  This
thought about seeing the entry into a ship became a mantra, always
close to the surface of my consciousness.

My nights had become relatively free of dreams that I recalled with
any clarity, although in the past I had always seemed to remember my
dreams on an almost daily basis.  I assumed my frequent awakenings
during the night had altered my dreaming schedule, so I was quite
surprised to have a vivid dream on January 13.  In this dream, I
found myself in a different land.  There was a teacher or mentor
with me, whom I didn't see, but was aware he was giving me a
three-part quest to fulfill.  The first part of this quest involved
going through a waterway to reach another location.  This conduit was
constricted, with very narrow walls.  Concerned, I realized I could
not negotiate the underwater path as a human; I was too large.  My
mentor dove into the water, and taking a "leap of faith," I dove in
after him.  To my surprise, I became a fish and easily navigated the
canal.

My mentor and I exited the water onto a shore, and I regained human
form.  The shoreline was a mountain of detritus--littered with huge
mounds of machinery and junk.  My mentor informed me I would have to
fly a particular machine to the next site of the quest, which was
located over the massive metal graveyard.  Walking toward this piece
of past technology, I discovered it was the engine of an airplane.
It didn't fly too ably, but somehow I managed to barely skim the
junk heaps and landed in a field area beyond.

This third locale was still machine-filled, but was less choked with
steel.  In the distance I could barely see an expanse of grassy
fields.  My mentor again appeared and told me I had to repair
another machine, and if successful, it would enable me to complete
the journey.  I walked to the equipment he indicated, and laughed.
It was a riding lawn mower!  I fiddled with the spark plug on it, and
was amazed when the engine actually worked.  Sitting on the mower, I
very slowly rode off into the sunset--and the waiting grassy fields
beyond.

I told my husband about the dream the following morning, and laughed
with him about the heavily laden symbology in it.  No doubt
containing many psychological levels of meaning, the dream also
seemed to represent three of the four natural elements:  water, air,
and, earth.  I wondered why the fourth element, fire, hadn't been
present.

The following evening, I got my answer.  Several hours after falling
asleep, I had another lucid dream.  I found myself in a combat zone.
The locale was a jungle, heavily forested and humid.  Military
personnel were scrambling from small huts, and air raid klaxons were
shrieking an alarm of incoming aircraft.  Heavy artillery bursts
could be seen and heard constantly, in every direction.

As the troops ran, I noticed several of the men were wearing
loafers, instead of combat boots.  I was very concerned, and yelled
at one man, asking why he didn't have on boots.  He replied that the
loafers were the latest style.  I was struck by how ludicrous this
was--and how dangerous.  The dream ended at that point, and I awoke.
As I lay in bed thinking about the dream, I realized one possible
representation of it was being "under fire."  Somehow, my mind had
supplied the fourth element I'd been searching for.

On January 18, after several quiet nights, I had what I considered a
flashback memory, rather than just a dream.  I had tossed and turned
most of the night, and after finally slipping into a light sleep,
saw myself on a table, paralyzed, with my hands raised over my head.
The scene shifted, and looking past my feet, I saw a doorway.  Moving
past my feet was one of the gray aliens.  In his hand was what
appeared to be a squeeze-tube with some thick white goop in it.  The
entity applied the contents of this tube on my body, and then turned
to leave the room.  He returned shortly, with another tube in his
hand.  He gazed deeply into my eyes, and telepathically imparted the
information that I could apply this one myself--or he would do so.
Handing the tube to me, he stepped back.  Had I been able, I would
have flung it at him--but that was not one of the options.  I chose
the lesser of two evils; I did not want him near me.

Following these dreams and possible flashback memory, I became edgy.
It seemed they were a prelude to something--and I was terribly
afraid that "something" was another encounter.  One small part of me
anticipated an occurrence; the larger part of me hoped nothing would
happen.  Then, January 25, 1993 arrived--and so did the alien
entities.


---------------------------------------------------------------------
UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK

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   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 16

                       CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia

From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia]
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 01:46:55 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 07:22:00 -0400
Subject: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia

Hi All,

Holliman's message is below but first...

Has anybody seen the new Cydonia image? Am I crazy
or is there a clear, pyramidal shaped object, which
appears to be partially buried in sand, located in the
photo strip? It looks clear to me but supposedly I'm
biased (According to some on this list) so I want
to hear opinions from others.

Good enhanced photo found at:

http://www.bemyguest.com/mars/second.html

Also,

A lot of people (Kal Korrf & Bob Shell to name two),
have knocked Richard Hoagland's claims & theories
on Cydonia. Do the same people who think Hoagland
is extremely biased also believe the same about Dr.
Tom Van Flandern? He seems like a quality scientist.
He also believes that The Face is definitely artificial.
Do you think that Van Flandern is seeing what he
wants to see too?

Joe in Tampa

****************

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9804/15/holliman/index.html

The View from Space: 'Facing' the facts?

By John Holliman

E-mail: jholliman@CNN.com

April 15, 1998
Web posted at: 5:20 PM EDT (1720 GMT)

The interest in the face on Mars has generated more e-mail
 (300 pieces this week) than I have time to answer personally,
so I'm going to try to tell you what I know here. I talked to NASA
administrator Daniel Goldin last Thursday and he tells me the
Mars Global Surveyor will continue to take pictures of the Cydonia
region, where the face is located, until everyone is satisfied.

Many of you are writing telling me of a NASA conspiracy to
hide information about the face, and I asked Goldin to provide
all the information possible about the region where the "face"
is located. He says he will, and I believe him. Let's see what
happens as Surveyor continues its mission.

I'm sorry that I'm not going to be able to respond to all your
e-mails personally but I hope this will suffice for the present.
I really appreciate the fact that so many of you are interested
in space exploration, my thoughts on the topic, and the face
in particular. I'll keep you posted.






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   Apr > Apr 16

                             Re: Address Request

From: SKvs <bradford@globalserve.net>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 00:34:17 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 07:24:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Address Request

At 05:27 PM 15/04/98 -0400, Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> wrote:

>Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 00:50:05 +0000
>From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Address Request

>A colleague in the USA has asked me if anyone has the current
>snail mail address of crop circle researcher Pat Delgado. I'm
>afraid I don't have it but does anyone on the list ?

Here is an address for Circles Phenomenon Research International
from http://www.mic.dundee.ac.uk/ft/crop_circles/anasazi/openl.html :

PO Box 3378
Branford, Connecticut (CT) 06405-1978 USA
Tel/Fax: 203-483-0822

Hope this helps.  It's dated back to May 97.

Sue Kovios

C:\DOS
C:\DOS\RUN
RUN\DOS\RUN







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   Apr > Apr 16

               Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

From: John <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 16:07:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:34:31 -0400
Subject: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs


>Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 22:25:21 -0400
>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 13:24:18 -0700
>>From: "Terry J. Blanton" <commengr@bellsouth.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

>>Theresa wrote:

>>> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:58:59 -0400
>>> From: Theresa <Tcarlson1@compuserve.com>
>>> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs
>>> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

<snip>

>Another possible answer based on the apparent motion of the UO
>(unidentified object)): it moved upward slightly before
>disappearing behind the first building and then continued te
>upward motion for a short distance after reappearing. Then it
>moved horizontally until it disappeared. One has to allow for the
>distinct **possibility** that the cameraman would make the
>logical assumption to the UO would continue to move to the right
>at the same altitude since it moved steadily to the right before
>it disappeared. Apparently the cameraman did not notice... which
>is not surprising... that the angular size of the UO was
>shrinking just before it disappeared... suggesting that it was
>moving away from the camera.... where it could be lost in the
>haze..

><snip>

>>> One thing I haven't been able to find, is the UFO's shadow.
>>> Even in the smog, or haze or whatever, the balconies and
>>> other part of the builings and foreground clutter have nice
>>> crisp shadows all aligned in the proper direction.

>>Yeah, I looked for a shadow, too. At least they seem to get
>>the light source in the right place.

>One must consider the *possibility** that the UO was beyond the
>high rise building and hence its shadow, if there was one, was
>obscured by nearby structures or by the buildings themselves.
>(After the video zooms in it doesn't show the ground).

Hi guys,

Brief interjection. (May help) Jaime Maussan presented two eye
witnesses. One, a young Mexican woman of about 20 to 25 years old
who was standing underneath the object on the - back side of
building - (from the perspective of the cameraman) and a very
young girl of about 13 or 14 years old that observed the UFO from
several blocks away. Both of them were interviewed on air and the
account of the first lady (of what she saw) tells what was going
on -behind- the building!

(I'm paraphrasing) The woman said that, she heard a 'hissing'
sound and looked up to see what was causing it. Her location was
on the ground -behind/adjascent to the building.- When she looked
up she saw the bottom of a large metallic disk and she said that
as she observed it the object simply disappeared and left a
purple mist behind in it's place. (Where it had been hovering for
a moment.) She also stated that her eyes have been bothering her
- burning and tearing since the sighting.

Review the tape again. The English translation may vary a bit
from what I have told you. I am Puerto Rican and Spanish is my
native language. I was listening to what she was _actually
saying_ in Spanish, . . .and not to the simultaneous English
translation.

Hope this helps.

Peace,

John Velez








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   Apr > Apr 16

                          Research Request (Video)

From: "Paul Hunter" <gscribe@thefree.net>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 98 13:45:22 PDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:00:14 -0400
Subject: Research Request (Video)

Dear friends,

I have a request for colleagues in the UK (especially the
Yorkshire region).

Can anyone supply equipment & or expertise, on a project to
transfer an approx. 2 minute night time UFO video to computer
format? (E.g:- .AVI or .MPG etc).

Yorkshire UFO researcher Andrew Ellis - who does not yet have
internet access - says he can mail the video he has out to anyone
able to help. If you can help please contact Andrew direct for
more details:

Andrew Ellis
55 Wykebeck Road
OSMONDTHORPE

Leeds
LS9  0HN
Tel: (01132) 482 973



Or alternatively, you can E-mail me, (although I don't have full details of the
video myself).

Paul Hunter

gscribe@thefree.net







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                More Mars Observations & 'Improbable' Claims

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:56:55 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:56:55 -0400
Subject: More Mars Observations & 'Improbable' Claims




From: The Meta Research Home Page:

http://www.metaresearch.org/announce/on-improbable-claims.htm


On Improbable Claims

Tom Van Flandern
Meta Research


Often we heard arguments for fantastic claims based on a long
list of coincidences very unlikely to happen by chance. Yet
frequently they are all chance occurrences. Why is this so when
the odds were against it, and how can we keep from being fooled
by such circumstances?

I will mention just two common causes of deceptiveness among many
known to science. The first is selection effects. You go to the
airport for a trip, and while sitting there, you have a
premonition that something might happen to the flight. Still, you
board anyway. En route, an engine catches on fire and the plane
makes an emergency landing. You remember your premonition. Isn't
this near proof of a supernatural occurrence?

It turns out that you, like most people, probably have such
premonitions almost every time you go to an airport and think
about your mortality and how your fate will be in the hands of
others. But such thoughts are quickly forgotten after all normal,
safe flights. We remember them and transfer them into long-term
memory only if some event reinforces the thought and causes you
to ponder it.

In general, we are much more likely to remember improbable events
and associations than normal or frequently occurring ones. So our
memories contain many "selection effects" caused by forgetting
most of the normal data and remembering only the abnormal data.
It's the same if you think of someone and they call soon
thereafter. Was it "psychic", or a selection effect? The latter
explanation is usually the simpler and therefore the preferred
one.

The second common cause of deception is also based on seemingly
unlikely statistical coincidences. In any truly random data set,
many regular patterns can always be found. For example, if we
have a star chart with a million stars, we might find an unusual
shape formed by stars that has less than one chance in a billion
of happening by chance. So are some mysterious super-beings
moving stars around? This is not as likely as the simpler
explanation: In every random data set capable of forming billions
of random patterns, it is virtually certain that some 1-in-1
billion pattern will be found formed by chance.

In general, we tend to be deceived because our minds often do not
recognize how truly vast is the number of possible coincidences
that can occur. So when a few of them do occur, as they must if
the odds are right, we tend to be amazed simply because the odds
against that particular coincidence were very great. The odds
against a flipped coin coming up tails ten straight times are
1024-to-1 against. But if we make several thousand attempts, the
odds become pretty good that it will happen one or more times.

In science, an improbable event that has already happened is
called "a posteriori" (after the fact), and generally is taken to
have no significance no matter how unlikely it might appear. By
contrast, if we specified a certain specific highly improbable
event in all its detail "a priori" (before the fact), and it
happened anyway, that would be significant, and we would be
obliged to pay attention.

As all this pertains to the "Face" on Mars at Cydonia, the
discovery of the face-like object was an a posteriori event. No
one predicted it, nor could they have done so based on known
facts. But once our attention was called to a particular object
in a particular place on a particular planet as possibly being of
artificial (constructed) origin, anything else found out about it
that is highly improbable but related to the artificiality
question becomes a priori. We can safely ignore a posteriori
claims, but not a priori ones.

At Cydonia, almost everything we see in the new, high-resolution
"Face" image fulfills highly unlikely a priori predictions. So
when we found a "nostrils" feature, that was impressive. The fact
that the relative size, positioning, and orientation is also
correct for nostrils makes it a significant a priori prediction.
The additional fact that no other nostril-like features can be
found nearby means that our minds are not free to pick and choose
such face-like features we may want to see. Because it is a
priori, that single feature would be strong evidence for the
artificiality hypothesis by itself.

But when we consider the perspective, lighting, and contrast
Limitations of the new image and use old Viking images to fill in
missing items, we now see that a priori predictions for a "pupil"
and an "eyebrow" are also fulfilled. These are a priori even if
no one had verbalized them because the face hypothesis implicitly
predicts such facial details before the fact. And each feature is
unique on the mesa and its surroundings, and properly shaped and
positioned relative to the face with the right relative size and
orientation. All this makes the a priori probability of chance
operating vanishingly low.

But there is much more. The eye socket is a well-formed 3-D
cavity and not in any way shaped by shadows. The mouth is smooth
and regular with inner and outer portions, curled just below the
nose, and continues to the opposite side. Viking shows reasonable
bilateral symmetry, although the Mars Global Surveyor image
cannot because of its low viewing angle. The headpiece is smooth,
regular, and symmetric. It is crowned with a huge crest feature
just north of the mesa. The "enclosure" or headdress feature is
smooth, symmetric, and right-angled, and is complete expect for a
small possible "entranceway" or break in one corner. The facial
decorations are smooth, linear or symmetric, and appropriate for
their relative locations with respect to a face.

Before seeing this new image, we knew that "fractal" content
implied a natural origin, while regularity, angularity, and
symmetry indicated artificiality. I see almost no fractality with
the exception of the nose bridge, the feature least protected
from wind erosion. I do see smooth lines and curves, right angles
and corners (including one in the "furrowed" eyebrow), and lots
of symmetry, especially detailed symmetry in the headdress
enclosure. And that symmetry is not simple symmetry, as when
duplicating a profile, but full 3-D symmetry. For example, the
enclosure wraps all the way around with both its inner and outer
boundaries, yet remains of uniform height and symmetric shape.
Nowhere does the mesa overlap or get confounded with this
boundary.

The whole amazing "Face" mesa stands isolated in a totally flat,
barren desert. It's not as if there are lots of natural
formations around, and this one just happened to look like a
face. And all of this says nothing about the rest of the strip
image, which also contains some surprises. Even the other major
formation in the strip image, although it doesn't look like any
recognizable shape, does appear far too non-fractal and regular
to have arisen as a natural formation. Although its boundary has
an irregular outline, it wraps all the way around. The uniform
parallel white strips that appear to radiate from the southeast
boundary also have no precedent among natural features in the
solar system.

The reason I have concluded that the case for artificiality of
the "Face" is well-established is the fulfillment of so many a
priori expectations, combined the lack of extraneous features
that might allow us to see patterns that might arise by chance.
We have almost no degrees of freedom, yet everything in the image
appears to work. Each of the new a priori points such as the
nostrils, mouth curl, pupil, and eyebrow has individually only
very small chance to occur at all, let alone with the correct
relative size, shape, location, and orientation. Each such
feature by itself indicates artificiality at perhaps 1000-to-1
odds (some much more) just because of their a priori nature.
Collectively, they say "artificial" beyond a reasonable doubt.

It is not the odds of occurrence of these features that is
convincing, because even a long list of 1,000,000-to-1 a
posteriori coincidences has no persuasive ability. It is the low
probability of these features combined with their a priori nature
that makes them persuasive. Real faces do have just such
features, and all major facial features are present in the
martian "Face". In truth, the thought never crossed my mind
before the fact that the Face should have eyebrows, nostrils,
pupils, and a lip curl. But of course, if it is a real face
depiction, it should have those features. Anyone could have
predicted those things, but most of us dare not hope for so much.
Now we have them!


SUMMARY: Based on the best available high-resolution,
contrast-enhanced Mars Global Surveyor image and the best old
Viking images, the "Face" mesa contains regularity, angularity,
symmetry, and the fulfillment of a priori predictions based on
the artificiality hypothesis such as the appearance of nostrils
in the nose, mouth shaping just under the nose, an eyebrow over
the eye socket, a pupil in the eye socket, a separated vertical
enclosure of the whole mesa with near perfect symmetry and
corners, a crest over the headpiece, and the almost complete
absence of extraneous or non-contributing features. These enhance
earlier findings of bilateral symmetry, 3-D contouring, a lack of
fractal features that are the trademark of natural objects, plus
a culturally significant location on the old martian equator and
a culturally significant upright north-south orientation. In my
considered opinion, there is no longer room for reasonable doubt
of the artificial origin of the face mesa, and I've never
concluded "no room for reasonable doubt" about anything before in
my 35-year scientific career.



Feedback to Meta Research (metares@well.com)

Maintained by Curtis Roelle roelle@erols.com






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   Apr > Apr 16

                     Re: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:58:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:15:48 -0400
Subject: Re: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia

>From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia]
>Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 01:46:55 EDT
>To: UASR@MyList.net, updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: John Holliman on Cydonia

>Hi All,

>Holliman's message is below but first...

>Has anybody seen the new Cydonia image? Am I crazy
>or is there a clear, pyramidal shaped object, which
>appears to be partially buried in sand, located in the
>photo strip? It looks clear to me but supposedly I'm
>biased (According to some on this list) so I want
>to hear opinions from others.

>Good enhanced photo found at:

>http://www.bemyguest.com/mars/second.html


Where exactly are you seeing this pyramid.  I downloaded
the big images yesterday and spent some time looking them
over.  I didn't see anything unusual, certainly no half-buried
pyramid.  I'll look again if you tell me on which image
and where you are seeing this.

>Also,

>A lot of people (Kal Korrf & Bob Shell to name two),
>have knocked Richard Hoagland's claims & theories
>on Cydonia. Do the same people who think Hoagland
>is extremely biased also believe the same about Dr.
>Tom Van Flandern? He seems like a quality scientist.
>He also believes that The Face is definitely artificial.
>Do you think that Van Flandern is seeing what he
>wants to see too?

>Joe in Tampa


Oh, Joe, you put me in such good company!!!!

I have to honestly say that I have no idea who Tom
Van Flandern is.  I got the material from him that someone
posted here and read it, and it sounded like unadulterated
bullshit to me, so I didn't think any more about it.

Who is Tom Van Flandern?????

I'm trying not to be dismissive of all this without
looking at all the data.  Quite honestly, though, I
have not seen anything in these photos which looks even
suggestive of artificial activity.  I don't think I'm
"seeing what I want to see" because I have no vested
interest in this thing one way or another, and would
be absolutely delighted if we DID find something that
was unequivocally artificial.  But I just can't find
even a hint of any such thing in these photos.

Bob Shell







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              NASA to Announce Artificial Structures on Mars??

From: "RISKERS/NUFOIA" <todd@riskers.org>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:29:46 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 12:42:18 -0400
Subject: NASA to Announce Artificial Structures on Mars??

FROM:  Fred Kurros

According to some of my sources at Lockheed/Martin here in
Denver, NASA and Malin will soon be announcing that they believe
that the structure in the new Mars Global Surveyor pictures is
actually an artificial structure. According to these sources, the
data and the image itself are nearly a full-blown smoking gun.

Apparently, yesterday at the Denver Lockheed/Martin location was
nearly a part-like atmosphere, people running around and saying,
"...there was life on Mars half a billion years ago!"  Well, now
they may be right, and NASA is prepared to announce it in the
next few days.

"The new images show clearly at least one pyramid structure on
the planet surface.  The right angles on at least three of the
sides of this structure cannot be argued, and it is a perfect
right angle.", says the source. "Plus, many of us have been
comparing it to pictures of the Giza Pyramid, and the likeness is
stunning, this thing is not a mountain."

The big surprise is that NASA finally listened to the UFO buffs,
and NASA finally acted on their beliefs.  The Mars Global
Surveyor took pictures and images of the Cydonia region, mainly
due to pressure from scientists and Ufologists interested in the
subject.  Even though the new pictures of the 'face' did not
yield anything, the fact remains that NASA did recognize the
scientists and Ufologists interested in the subject.  That is
advancement in the right direction.  Sounds to me like they may
be recognizing and listening more in the very near future.







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                          Who is Tom Van Flandern?

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:20:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:20:49 -0400
Subject: Who is Tom Van Flandern?




>Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:58:26 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia


>I have to honestly say that I have no idea who Tom
>Van Flandern is.  I got the material from him that someone
>posted here and read it, and it sounded like unadulterated
>bullshit to me, so I didn't think any more about it.

>Who is Tom Van Flandern?????

From: http://www.metaresearch.org/

Dark Matter Missing Planets & New Comets

  Title: Dark Matter, Missing Planets and New Comets
  Author: Tom Van Flandern
  Publisher: North Atlantic Books (1993)
  Layout: 466 pages, full-size soft-cover edition, illustrated (b&w)
  ISBN#: 1-55643-155-4

Evidence against the Big Bang theory; an exposition of the Meta
Model alternative for the origin and nature of the universe;
deductive models for the origins of stars, planets, moons,
comets, asteroids, meteoroids, rings, Sun & planet spots; the
latest on the hypothetical "tenth planet" beyond Pluto; an
alternative to the Oort cloud of comets and the "dirty snowball"
comet model; and much more. Since the book deals primarily with
observational puzzles and anomalies that don't fit conventional
models, many viable alternative models are described.

Additional topics treated:

 o the possibility of faster-than-light travel in forward time
 o the speed of propagation of gravity
 o origin of redshift and microwave radiation in the universe
 o reasons why black holes don't exist
 o evidence that quasars are nearby, and what they are
 o about gravitational shielding
 o the cause and nature of gravitation -- a complete model
 o new, classical descriptions of quantum physics
 o planetary breakup hypothesis as the origin of asteroids and comets
 o satellites of asteroids and comets
 o speculations about the origins of man
 o a discussion of terrestrial and non-terrestrial pyramids
 o surprising information about viewing solar and lunar eclipses
 o the origin of Mercury as a moon of Venus
 o the fission origin of Earth's Moon
 o the origin of Martian moons and the great Martian rift "fault"
 o a new model for Jupiter's Great Red Spot -- a floating impact site
 o the youth of Saturn's rings
 o the origin of black deposits, such as on the moon Iapetus
 o the Triton-Nereid-Pluto-Charon disruption story
 o a possible major planet beyond Pluto
 o an exposition of Scientific Method: how to tell good models from bad

This book is written for the science-interested layman almost
entirely without math. The author is a senior professional
astronomer with a doctorate from Yale University. Those familiar
with his nearly 100 published technical papers in the mainstream
journals of astronomy will be aware that he has plenty of solid
evidence that has passed peer review to back up most of his
alternative models.


Biographical Sketch of the Book's Author, Tom Van Flandern

Tom received his Ph.D. degree in Astronomy from Yale University
in 1969. He spent 20 years at the U.S. Naval Observatory, where
he became the Chief of the Celestial Mechanics Branch. In 1991,
Tom formed a Washington, DC-based organization, Meta Research, to
foster research into ideas not otherwise supported solely because
they conflict with mainstream theories in Astronomy. Tom is
editor of the Meta Research Bulletin, which specializes in
reporting anomalies and evidence that does not fit with standard
theories in the field. He is also a Research Associate at the
University of Maryland working on improving the accuracy of the
Global Positioning System.

North Atlantic Books is the publisher of Tom's 1993 book, "Dark
Matter, Missing Planets and New Comets". As with his research
papers, the book is critical of many standard models in
astronomy, such as the Oort Cloud, the Dirty Snowball, and the
Big Bang theory. Tom has organized an expedition for 100 people
to travel to the Galapagos Islands for viewing the February 26,
1998 total solar eclipse.

During his career as a professional research astronomer, Tom has
been honored by a prize from the Gravity Research Foundation;
served on the Council of American Astronomical Society's Division
on Dynamical Astronomy; taught astronomy at the University of
South Florida and to Navy Department employees; been a consultant
to NASA's Jet Propulsion Lab; and done several spots for the
"Project Universe" series that continues to air occasionally on
public TV.





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   Apr > Apr 16

                     Re: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:26:16 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:05:57 -0400
Subject: Re: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia

>From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia]
>Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 01:46:55 EDT
>To: UASR@MyList.net, updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: John Holliman on Cydonia

>Hi All,

>Holliman's message is below but first...

>Has anybody seen the new Cydonia image? Am I crazy
>or is there a clear, pyramidal shaped object, which
>appears to be partially buried in sand, located in the
>photo strip? It looks clear to me but supposedly I'm
>biased (According to some on this list) so I want
>to hear opinions from others.

>Good enhanced photo found at:

>http://www.bemyguest.com/mars/second.html

I find that when dealing with photos, "proof" (like "beauty") is
often in the eye of the beholder.  I looked at the images and
don't see obvious "proof", which is especially true when shown
next to the Giza images.  On the other hand, the site didn't give
an explanation of the distance from objects shown in either
photograph, so I'm not sure how good (or valid) the comparison
is. It is interesting, though.


>Also,

>A lot of people (Kal Korrf & Bob Shell to name two),
>have knocked Richard Hoagland's claims & theories
>on Cydonia. Do the same people who think Hoagland
>is extremely biased also believe the same about Dr.
>Tom Van Flandern? He seems like a quality scientist.
>He also believes that The Face is definitely artificial.
>Do you think that Van Flandern is seeing what he
>wants to see too?

>Joe in Tampa

How about word that Vince DiPietro has "thrown in the towel" in
regard to the Mars "Face".  Do you think he has given in too
easily?

Hoagland, IMHO, is his own worst enemy.  I've been to one of his
"Press Briefings", and in spite of the fact that the media
generally treated his entire presentation (flawed, disjointed,
and confusing) as nonsense, he issued a self-serving press
statement touting its success.  While he has former NASA
employees who claim to have been directed to remove anomolies
from official images before their release, he concentrates his
press statements on his "bottom line", which the media generally
regards with great skepticism.  IMO, Hoagland does a lot of PR
work, but very little of it is very effective.  Please understand
that I attended the "briefing" as a supporter, and came away very
disappointed.

As far as Van Flandern and other scientists are concerned,
they're just as human as you and I, and have their own beliefs
and faith to help guide them.  DiPietro (I assume) has looked at
the same images as Van Flandern, and reached a different
conclusion and what we have is a difference of opinion based (at
least in part) on belief and faith.  It has been my experience
that scientists rarely examine evidence without first developing
a theory as to what they expect to find.  As such, I think it
would entirely possible for "quality scientists" to see what they
want (or expect) to see.

According to John Holliman of CNN, NASA has agreed to continue
imaging the Cydonia region until the controversy is laid to rest:

        http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9804/15/holliman/index.html

Unfortunately, I think there are quite a few that won't be
convinced until we're able to walk around the "City" and see what
it looks like at ground level.

Steve

PS-  Somehow, I'm not sure that Bob Shell or Kal Korff are
overjoyed at being compared to one another as equals. . . . <g>







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   Apr > Apr 16

              Re: More Mars Observations & 'Improbable' Claims

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 12:52:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:19:30 -0400
Subject: Re: More Mars Observations & 'Improbable' Claims

> Tom Van Flandern
> Meta Research

> As all this pertains to the "Face" on Mars at Cydonia, the
> discovery of the face-like object was an a posteriori event. No
> one predicted it, nor could they have done so based on known
> facts. But once our attention was called to a particular object
> in a particular place on a particular planet as possibly being of
> artificial (constructed) origin, anything else found out about it
> that is highly improbable but related to the artificiality
> question becomes a priori. We can safely ignore a posteriori
> claims, but not a priori ones.

> At Cydonia, almost everything we see in the new, high-resolution
> "Face" image fulfills highly unlikely a priori predictions. So
> when we found a "nostrils" feature, that was impressive. The fact
> that the relative size, positioning, and orientation is also
> correct for nostrils makes it a significant a priori prediction.
> The additional fact that no other nostril-like features can be
> found nearby means that our minds are not free to pick and choose
> such face-like features we may want to see. Because it is a
> priori, that single feature would be strong evidence for the
> artificiality hypothesis by itself."

--

There are a number of things wrong with this. Allow me to point
out that certain types of wood have knots which look like faces.
Some of those knots look a lot like faces. Their nostrils are even
in the "right" place, the eyes have irises, and they have mouths.

Obviously, by the criteria being set above, there is clear evidence
for the artificiality of these knots in the wood.

But that isn't the end of it.

There are also knots in the same kind of wood, which look less
like faces. And those which barely look like faces. And those
which don't look like faces at all.

The Martian landscape in general, and Cydonia in particular,
aren't different from that wood. Take a look at the nearby
landforms, and you seen things that look like the face in many
respect, but which don't have as ideal a geometry. Clearly,
whatever geological process created the Face was active to create
non-face shaped areas which are otherwise similar, including the
dual layer shield of less eroded material near the base.

--

> But when we consider the perspective, lighting, and contrast
> Limitations of the new image and use old Viking images to fill in
> missing items, we now see that a priori predictions for a "pupil"
> and an "eyebrow" are also fulfilled. These are a priori even if
> no one had verbalized them because the face hypothesis implicitly
> predicts such facial details before the fact. And each feature is
> unique on the mesa and its surroundings, and properly shaped and
> positioned relative to the face with the right relative size and
> orientation. All this makes the a priori probability of chance
> operating vanishingly low."

But what about the a priori predictions of other anatomical
features which don't show:

Lips
Eyelids
Iris
Nose to lip groove

Does this increase the possibility that the feature is due to
chance?

What about the large difference in size between the left and
right "nostrils"?

Why does the mouth look like a bow tie?

How is the "correct" placement determined, given the variation
in human feature placement?

--

> Before seeing this new image, we knew that "fractal" content
> implied a natural origin, while regularity, angularity, and
> symmetry indicated artificiality. I see almost no fractality with
> the exception of the nose bridge, the feature least protected
> from wind erosion. I do see smooth lines and curves, right angles
> and corners (including one in the "furrowed" eyebrow), and lots
> of symmetry, especially detailed symmetry in the headdress
> enclosure. And that symmetry is not simple symmetry, as when
> duplicating a profile, but full 3-D symmetry. For example, the
> enclosure wraps all the way around with both its inner and outer
> boundaries, yet remains of uniform height and symmetric shape.
> Nowhere does the mesa overlap or get confounded with this
> boundary."

--

Strange that I see a landform with features at every scale.

There are many smooth curves, but these are easily explained as
the result of erosion, which tends to soften sharp outlines.

And there are no clean right angles.

So why is the author seeing what is clearly not in the image?

As for the uniform height of the boundary, it is not uniform. It
clearly varies significantly at the lower left, the lower center,
and along the highly visible right side, there are numerous
variations which appear to be between 1 and 5 percent of height.

The central features do merge into this boundary at the "top" of
the feature, and also where the left "eye" merges into it.

--

> The whole amazing "Face" mesa stands isolated in a totally flat,
> barren desert. It's not as if there are lots of natural
> formations around, and this one just happened to look like a
> face. And all of this says nothing about the rest of the strip
> image, which also contains some surprises. Even the other major
> formation in the strip image, although it doesn't look like any
> recognizable shape, does appear far too non-fractal and regular
> to have arisen as a natural formation. Although its boundary has
> an irregular outline, it wraps all the way around. The uniform
> parallel white strips that appear to radiate from the southeast
> boundary also have no precedent among natural features in the
> solar system. "

--

Yes, they do. It's called erosion. It can be seen on any image of
an inselberg or mesa. The same streaks can be seen in the ejecta
of the crater near the Face, and on the "hood" of the Face, and
in Valles Marineris on landslides...etc, etc.

The other major formation is not regular and does have features
at many scales, including streaks and large scale curves with
streaks; it has a very close resemblance to volcanoes on Io and
volcanic features on Venus.

--

> The reason I have concluded that the case for artificiality of
> the "Face" is well-established is the fulfillment of so many a
> priori expectations, combined the lack of extraneous features
> that might allow us to see patterns that might arise by chance.
> We have almost no degrees of freedom, yet everything in the image
> appears to work. Each of the new a priori points such as the
> nostrils, mouth curl, pupil, and eyebrow has individually only
> very small chance to occur at all, let alone with the correct
> relative size, shape, location, and orientation. Each such
> feature by itself indicates artificiality at perhaps 1000-to-1
> odds (some much more) just because of their a priori nature.
> Collectively, they say "artificial" beyond a reasonable doubt."

--

This can only be considered true if many characteristics of the
"expectations" are ignored:

1) Variation in what is considered "correct" placement or size or
shape of a facial feature. Nostrils and lips and eyes show
considerable variation in their placement in humans.

2) Ignoring inconveniently absent facial features in favor of
those claimed to be present.

3) Ignoring deformities in existing features.

4) Ignoring clear parallels to other Martian and extra-Martian
geological structures.

5) Ignoring features at smaller scales.

6) Ignoring variations which corrupt "right angles", "perfect
curves" and "exact heights".

And where do these remarkable odds come from? A substantial study
of the presence of what appears to be "face" like component
features in terrestrial or extraterrestrial landforms? Or are
they just made up to support an a priori conclusion?

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront/
------







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   Apr > Apr 16

                        Re: Who is Tom Van Flandern?

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:06:05 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:21:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Who is Tom Van Flandern?

>>Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:58:26 -0400
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia

<snip>

>>Who is Tom Van Flandern?????

>From: http://www.metaresearch.org/

>Dark Matter Missing Planets & New Comets

>  Title: Dark Matter, Missing Planets and New Comets
>  Author: Tom Van Flandern
>  Publisher: North Atlantic Books (1993)
>  Layout: 466 pages, full-size soft-cover edition, illustrated (b&w)
>  ISBN#: 1-55643-155-4

<snip>

OK, so now I know who he is.  Do I still think that what he
said is bullshit?  You betcha.

Some of the dumbest SOBs I know have multiple PhDs.

Just because he has degrees in astronomy and knows physics
does not qualify him as a photo analyst and geologist, the
two disciplines most important in this case.

Mark Cahsman's analysis and comments are right on the
money.

Bob








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                Re: NASA to Announce Artificial Structures on

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:56:18 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:20:00 -0400
Subject: Re: NASA to Announce Artificial Structures on

>From: "RISKERS/NUFOIA" <todd@riskers.org>
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>,
>Subject: NASA to Announce Artificial Structures on Mars
>Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:29:46 -0600

>FROM:  Fred Kurros

>According to some of my sources at Lockheed/Martin here in
>Denver, NASA and Malin will soon be announcing that they believe
>that the structure in the new Mars Global Surveyor pictures is
>actually an artificial structure. According to these sources, the
>data and the image itself are nearly a full-blown smoking gun.

<snip>

Anyone wanna make any bets on this happening?????

Hogwash!

Bob








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                 Yorkshire [UK] UFO Crash - MOD revelations

From: David Clarke <dclarke14@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:39:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:00:41 -0400
Subject: Yorkshire [UK] UFO Crash - MOD revelations

From: Dave Clarke, BUFORA Press Officer

More Parliamentary Questions on "Aircrash Mystery" and exclusive
interview with MOD [Ministry of Defence] UFO Desk

Further questions regarding the incident over Howden Moors,
Derbyshire, were tabled in Parliament one week ago by Sheffield
Hillsborough MP Helen Jackson. This followed the MOD's revelation
that a low-flying exercise had taken place on the night a major
air and land search was launched following reports of unexplained
sonic booms and an  "aircraft" crashing occurred over the Peak
District moors near Sheffield, Yorkshire. A number of witnesses
contacted police and UFO groups to report a triangular shaped
object in the sky, followed by low-flying RAF fighters just
minutes before the "crash".

Following my directions Mrs Jackson asked if the "military
exercise" was carried out over the Sheffield area and whether the
sonic booms were the result of aircraft breaking the sound
barrier.

My intention was to follow up the questions with a direct
audience with the RAF Press Office at Whitehall where I got an
on-record interview with press office chief Alan Pattison (more
to follow!)...

I wanted to put the RAF directly on the spot and ask if the
"military exercise" was pre-planned or was a interception mission
launched to pursue an unidentified object picked up on Air
Defence radar as some have claimed.

Questions in Parliament

On April 7 the Under Secretary of State for Defence John Spellar
replied to Mrs Jackson in a written statement:

"It is not possible, twelve months after the date in question, to
state precisely where military activity was being carried out.
Records kept show only that aircraft were booked to carry out low
flying over the Peak District between 2030 and 2107 hours local
time on the evening of 24 March 1997. No low level flying is
permitted over the Sheffield urban area, or any other major
conurbation. Records of flying at medium level - between 2,000
and 24,000 ft - are not maintained so it is possible that there
were aircraft in the area at medium level [too]."

He adds: "The regulations governing military aircraft flying at
supersonic speeds are contained in the Joint Service Pulbication
entitled 'Military Flying Regulations', an extract of which was
provided in the answer I gave [Mrs Jackson] on 1 April...as for
the sonic event detected by the British Geological Survey at
Edinburgh University, I refer my hon friend to the answer I gave
her on 30 March."

[The military flying regulations stipulate "all high level
supersonic flights are to take place over the sea" and low-level
flying only allowed when a radar visual search is maintained for
shipping, helicopters and civilian aircraft. Supersonic flight
over land not allowed and.all planned flights must be notified to
radar stations in advance and any breaches must be reported by
captains within 30 minutes of aircraft landing]

MOD on the spot

I immediately followed this statement with a direct Press
interview with Alan Pattison who is the current civilian chief of
the MOD desk which deals with UFOs and low-flying, and his
deputy, RAF Squadron Leader Tom Rounds.
They confirmed the planes involved in the incident were two
Tornado GR1 Strike aircraft which were operating from their base
at RAF Marham in Norfolk on a pre-booked and pre-planned
low-flying training exercise over the Peak District. These
Tornados are the type used on bombing missions in the Gulf and
are not fighters which would be scrambled for an intercept.
They also admit other Tornados and indeed Jaguar fighters from
other NATO bases took part in this night-time sortie, which
involved night time flying at a minimum 250 foot altitude over
the mountains west of Sheffield.
These details coincide with the descriptions of witnesses in the
Dronfield area of Derbyshire who reported seeing a "huge
triangular shaped UFO" pass directly overhead at an altitude of
300ft at 9.30 pm  [UFO Magazine, May/June 1997 pg9]. This craft
had "pinkish coloured lights ariound its curved edges and a
blinding blue light on its underside. It gave off "a droning
noise similar to an electric substation" and lit up the street as
bright as day!!...Three minutes after this object passed over two
military jets flew low and fast over the area, followed by two
others. There is an obvious time discrepancy here which can only
be explained by the witnesses being in error or the MOD's stated
times being wrong [note these are only the 'booked' times]

Asked if the incident on March 24 involved fighters scrambled to
intercept this UFO Pattison replied directly:

"This was a regular training flight involving two Tornado strike
aircraft.
These are not aircraft which would be employed to intercept a
threat to UK airspace This type of low-level training is carried
out regularly over areas like the Peak District and is essential
to give pilots experience for possible action in the Gulf and
other trouble spots.

"There has been no cover-up over this incident and we did not
scramble aircraft to intercept a UFO. All missions sent out that
night were regular training flights."

UFO tracked by radar?

I then asked specifically about claims by researcher Max Burns
that a "UFO" had been tracked by the Royal Signals at RAF
Linton-upon-Ouse, near York, at 9.55pm that same night - three
minutes after the first sonic event detected in Leeds.

I had already established from Flight Lieutenant Philip Inman
that the radar at Linton is not used as part of the UK Air
Defence system and when in operation is used for training
purposes over a limited radius. In fact the base was closed down
on the night of March 24. Radar cover for the military exercise
was being provided by West Drayton.

These facts were confirmed by the MOD who added: "If an
unidentified object is picked up on radar screen which we could
not explain we would scramble fighter aicraft to intercept. This
has happened on a number of occasions, not so much now but
certainly in the past. But we often find that these radar blips
are caused by people in light aircraft who have wandered onto the
radar screens without notifying anyone of their presence.

"Air defence radar is directed out towards the sea to detect
incoming incoming objects as a result of the Cold War. We would
only intercept an object if we thought it was a threat to this
country as we are only interested in establishing if there is a
threat to UK airspace. We don't discount some of these objects
may be unexplained phenomena but we are not funded to investigate
these."

The sonic booms
The MOD/RAF current position is that the two sonic booms recorded
at 2152 and 2206 that night remain "unexplained." They claim the
low-flying exercise was over around 50 minutes before theese
sonic events were recorded, and say they have no record of them
at the time of the exercise.
They do admit they received a complaint from the British
Geological Survey people afterwards and the BGS say the RAF told
them they "could not confirm" one of their aircraft was
involved.

But note they are admitting the exercise was "booked" between the
times admitted which does not rule out the presence of other
aircraft later that night. They have already admitted they
received 13 complaints about "aircraft activity"  from different
parts of the country. Certainly numerous witnesses testify (in
the South Yorkshire Police log of the events of which I have a
copy) to the presence of aircraft until 11pm, and when pressed
Pattison accepted it was "logical" to connect the exercise with
the sonic events which occured within one hour of the admitted
times.
Note also sonic events have three general causes, space debris
[none reported that night], Concorde [not flying] and military
aircraft. The BGS say the two booms "could only have been caused
by a military aircraft reaching supersonic speed possibly while
performing a mid-air turn."

Pattison says: "Our pilots know very well they should not fly at
twice the speed of sound over land. It's not imposssible that a
pilot might have accelerated to supersonic speed in order to take
avoiding action if a civil aicraft was detected in their
flightpath.

It is also possible a pilot might have covered his tracks if he
had broken the rules and the only way we could prove this is by
studying radar traces from the night in question. We could never
rule this out."

Final words
In summary the MOD have made an unambiguous statement about the
events of March 24, 1997. They say: "We did not chase a UFO and
there has been no cover-up. "  What's more they add: "We
responded to a request by the police for  help to search for a
crashed aircraft and sent a helicopter from RAF Leconfield. We
don't know what caused the sonic events and the whole thing is a
mystery to us too."

We are left with a limited number of options. South Yorkshire
Police and numerous witnesses testify to the presence of an
unidentified low-flying aircraft in the Margery Hill area of the
Peak around 10pm, coinciding with the two sonic events recorded
in Edinburgh. One witness described it as a cigar-shaped object
"glowing like it was on fire". A police special constable
described it as a large four seater plane brightly illuminated.
There was a flash and bang as it disappeared over the Howden
Moors, leaving a red glow which gave the impression it had
crashed.

Was this part of the military exercise earlier in the evening
which the MOD have now admitted took place? Are the RAF telling
the truth, or is there another explanation?

Answers to dclarke14@compuserve.com.







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   Apr > Apr 16

              NASA Denies 'Artifical Structure Report' Pending

From: xzone@webgate.net [Rob McConnell]
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:08:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:29:21 -0400
Subject: NASA Denies 'Artifical Structure Report' Pending

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:-

Thursday, April 16, 1998 : 14:54:06 HRS EDT

London, Ontario, Canada: In a telephone interview with Rob
McConnell, NASA JPL Spokesperson and Manager of Media Services,
FRANK O'DONNELL, stated that the story being  circulated on the
internet pertaining to an alleged statement that NASA would be
releasing as to alleged "artifical structures" on Mars as
captured by the MGS are unfounded - and were denied.

O'DONNELL stated in the telephone interview the photos received
at JPL after careful examination show no proof of any artifical
structure(s) however, people will see in them what they want to
see.

O'DONNELL was also questionned as to the reason for the delay of
30 hours prior to making the first photo's available to the
public. O'DONNELL stated that the photo's are kept on the space
vehicle for 10 hours before they are transmitted to Earth. The
first photo's arrived were received on a Sunday, and due to
budget restraints, technicians were not at their posts until
Monday morning and within 30 minutes of arriving at the stations,
the photos were released.

The 'X' Chronicles / The 'X' Zone News Services
1290 CJBK / VCBN.






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                               Re: Betty Hill

From: Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith]
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:34:04 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:22:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Betty Hill

Compliments of the Duke:

>From: "Marigold" <ZIAZ@prodigy.net> [Carol Morres]
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Betty Hill
>Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 18:27:57 -0700

>Does anyone know if she [Betty Hill] has an e-mail address?

No, she doesn't. But her telephone has a *real bell* in it!

Mail should reach her if marked Personal & sent to:

PO Box 55
Greenland
NH 03840

You can also get her book, "A Common Sense Approach to UFOs"
from this address. Details in FT #110 were wrong: price is
$15.95, plus postage - $7.20 in the USA, $10.50 elsewhere.

Also missing from FT #110 was mention of yours truly on the
bill at the UnConvention. I'll be presenting a vastly
refined version of "Martian Cats", sketched many moons ago
on this List, which will include unpublished info on the
Hill case, along with lewd pictures & loud music. There are
also, of course, *good* reasons to attend this fest.

best wishes
Poinsettia D. Mexico
Selfraising Flour






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   Apr > Apr 17

                Re: NASA to Announce Artificial Structures on

From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 98 16:11:40 PDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:20:51 -0400
Subject: Re: NASA to Announce Artificial Structures on


> From: "RISKERS/NUFOIA" <todd@riskers.org>
> To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>,
> Subject: NASA to Announce Artificial Structures on Mars
> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:29:46 -0600

> FROM:  Fred Kurros

> According to some of my sources at Lockheed/Martin here in
> Denver, NASA and Malin will soon be announcing that they believe
> that the structure in the new Mars Global Surveyor pictures is
> actually an artificial structure. According to these sources, the
> data and the image itself are nearly a full-blown smoking gun.

Am I the only one who suspects our friend here is being had? How
many anonymous sources have we heard -- in the last year or two
alone -- promising mindboggling, world-altering revelations which
never, ever come to pass?  It isn't just religious cultists who
have their failed prophecies.

> Apparently, yesterday at the Denver Lockheed/Martin location was
> nearly a part-like atmosphere, people running around and saying,
> "...there was life on Mars half a billion years ago!"  Well, now
> they may be right, and NASA is prepared to announce it in the
> next few days.

Uh huh.  Love to be wrong about this, and if I am, I'll eat my
words, in a hotdog bun with mustard and ketchup. I anticipate no
such unconventional dining, however.

Cheers,

Jerry Clark









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   Apr > Apr 17

                            Re: Document Request

From: Tom Benson <sparkle@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:18:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 08:46:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Document Request


> Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 00:51:13 +0000
> From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Document Request

> Can anyone help provide me with a copy of the Senator Russell UFO
> sighting report that he made in the l950's in the USSR.

Phillip:

The Fund for UFO Research, P.O. Box 277, Mt. Rainier, MD 20712
sells copies of an article by Bruce Maccabee, Ph.D. entitled,
"Senator Richard Russell: Flying Saucer Witness" (65 pages)
$13.00 plus $6.00 outside the U.S.A. mailing cost.

Tom Benson






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                Re: NASA Denies 'Artifical Structure Report'

From: Geoff Price <Geoff@CalibanMW.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:24:21 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 08:44:52 -0400
Subject: Re: NASA Denies 'Artifical Structure Report'

>Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:08:27 -0400
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto"
>From: xzone@webgate.net [Rob McConnell]
>Subject: Reports that NASA to Announce Artifical Structures on
>         Mars denied by NASA JPL and Lockheed/Martin in Denver,
>         Co.


>London, Ontario, Canada: In a telephone interview with Rob
>McConnell, NASA JPL Spokesperson and Manager of Media Services,
>FRANK O'DONNELL, stated that the story being  circulated on the
>internet pertaining to an alleged statement that NASA would be
>releasing as to alleged "artifical structures" on Mars as
>captured by the MGS are unfounded - and were denied.

Wait just a darn minute!  I have right here a copy of a UFO
Update message where someone quoted a news release from someone
who has a friend who works for a real defense contractor who has
the inside scoop on NASA who said *exactly the opposite*!

Have these people not seen the same photos I have, with the domes
and excavation sites and partially submerged pyramids with
extensive evidence of large burial chambers?

What the heck is going on!








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   Apr > Apr 17

              Sarah McClendon News Release. (Background Info.)

From: Ted Oliphant III <alkahest@slip.net>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:17:29 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 08:41:05 -0400
Subject: Sarah McClendon News Release. (Background Info.)

Did you see this about Sarah McClendon's News Release?

It comes from Bob Durant.
____________________________________________________


To Whom It May Concern:

On March 30 Washington columnist Sarah McClendon published a
report claiming, among other things, that "a community of
scientists and technicians employed by the government" believe
UFOs "are actual visitors from other worlds."  Her report has
received wide distribution on the Internet.

McClendon states that a number of senior Clinton advisors
received UFO briefings. Among those named officials is Anthony
Lake, who served as the President's National Security Advisor.
Lake was nominated for the position of Director of Central
Intelligence, but his nomination was withdrawn in  the face of
Republican opposition.  He resigned from public life, and now
teaches at Georgetown University.

On April 14 Lake delivered the annual George W. Ball Lecture at
Princeton University.  I attended the lecture,  and approached
him after the talk to ask about McClendon's report.  The
following is a transcript of our short but unambiguous
conversation.

Durant:  Two weeks ago Sarah McClendon, a Washington reporter,

Lake:  Right, right

Durant:  wrote a real fire burner about UFOs.  And she indicated
that this was taken very seriously by the Clinton administration.
Your name was mentioned in it, as somebody having received a
briefing on this topic.  Do you know anything about this?

Lake:  This is very highly classified.  But if you looked at
Independence Day, the contact with the space aliens, the
description of the aliens is just about perfect.  No, that's just
nonsense.  Absolute nonsense.  I never got a briefing. There is
no, what, what is it, Roswell.  Unless, I never heard of Roswell,
in fact, until I was on the Diane Reems (sp?) show about a year
ago, and a caller said, so are you going to tell us about
Roswell, Roswell and what's it called, 51 or 52?

Durant:  Area 51

Lake:  Oh, Area 51.  I never heard of it, and so I went back to
the Air Force and said, what's this all about?  And they denied
it.  Maybe they lied to me.  This is nonsense.  And I think the
explanation is, uh, I can't remember now, it may have had
something to do with satellites, reconnaissance, going over,
flights, planes going over that convinced people something was
happening.  Now, the problem is, as I said on the Diane Reems
(sp?) show, I never heard about this, I don't know about this.
You can either conclude, one, that I'm lying to you, or two, that
I'm naive and nobody ever tells me anything, or three, that I'm
telling the truth.  All I can do is tell you what the truth as I
know it is.  But Independence Day was a good movie!

Durant:  OK, gotcha.  Thank you.

Earlier in the day, a colleague of mine telephoned Sarah
McClendon to inquire about her source for the claim about Lake's
UFO briefing. She was unable to answer that question at the
moment.

        Robert J. Durant
        15 April 98

_________________________________________________________________

Comments: Oliphant

I spoke to Sarah McClendon on March 31st, the day after The
McClendon News Service issued the News Relase. She was in the
Veteran's Hospital, recovering from a fall. Here is the gist of
our conversation:

She told me she had never met Dr. Steven Greer and didn't know
him. Her source was Steve Bassett, Washington lobbyist who told
her Dr. Greer had "High credibility". She didn't know about
Greer's claim that he had remote viewed aliens under Blance Peak
in Colorado, while they were being attacked by covert military
forces using a sarin-like gas.

Niether did she know about his vectoring in UFOs with high
powered flashlights. She asked me to send her everything I had on
Greer, right away. She explained that Steve Bassett was the
source for some of the material in her News Release. She told me
that Bassett had been a source for information used in articles
she had written in previous years.

"He's drowning in UFOs" she told me. Sarah says she knew Bassett
was trying to get congressional hearings going..."But right now
that's not happening" she said. I told her I thought Bassett had
used her, she didn't agree "No,

I don't think so. But you hurry and send me this material (On
Greer) right away." I faxed some copies of Greer's statements to
her that evening.

Two evenings later when she was preparing for an interview on the
Art Bell Show, I spoke to Sarah McClendon's secretary who
answered her hospitall room telephone. I was told McClendon was
busy, but I heard Sarah in the background asking who was on the
phone. Sarah came on the line to thank me for the material.

Finally, at 2 A.M. Washington time, 17 million people around the
world hear her on the radio. When Art Bell started interviewing
her, they only talked about the press release in briefly. After
five minutes, Bell changed the subject, never asking any specific
details of the story, her sources for information, not even
mentioning one of the many names she printed in her article. The
remaining 55 inutes of the one hour segment, never mentioned UFOs
nor her News Release; that had obstensibly been the reason to
have her on the show in the first place.

So there you have it, this News Release had Sarah's name and
respect attached to it, but it remains of little substance.
Bell's interview was of even less.

The sad part is that Sarah really wants the same thing we all
want; our government to tell us the truth. McClendon became
disenchanted with the goverment in 1947, when she was a reporter
covering the South-West. She told me that when the government
told her Roswell was a weather balloon "I didn't believe them
then, and I don't believe them now" Who can blame her for that?

Regards,

Ted Oliphant III
http://www.realityb.com/
_________________________________________________________________









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   Apr > Apr 17

                   Yet Another 'Debunker' Outed by Boylan

From: authority@webtv.net (Doc in Phoenix)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 18:16:41 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:27:56 -0400
Subject: Yet Another 'Debunker' Outed by Boylan

[This and the other post regarding Boylan are for your
 information - only. These two messages are not a cue
 for discussion.

 a Boylan: a pimple on the buttock of Ufology  --ebk]


Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:55:58 +0200
From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.ALPcom.it>
Subject: Boylan vs. Russo, re: Mr. Balducci, the Vatican and ETs
To: authority@webtv.net (Doc in Phoenix)


Hello!

Thanks for forwarding me Richard Boylan's posting answering my own
comments on the subject above.

I found it odd that Boylan did not care to send it to me, since
he apparently knew of my e-mail address, but maybe courtesy rules
are different in your country, so I won't feel obliged to send
him the following reply of mine. Please feel free to do so
yourself, if you feel it appropriate, as well as to post or
re-post it where you like to.

>So what we have here is "Doc-in-Phoenix" violating his ban on IUFO to
>post a slam by a debunker Italian "Ufologist" Edoardo Russo

I've been called worse names in the past, but I'm still wondering
what Boylan may mean by "debunker" and how he can feel entitled
to call me such, since he also acknowledged to have never heard
of me before.

>post a slam by a debunker Italian "Ufologist" Edoardo Russo against another
>Ufologist, Giorgio Bongiovanni, whom Russo apparently feels is a rival.

Oh dear! Never in my life did I even remotely thought of Giorgio
Bongiovanni as a "ufologist" and even less a "rival". When I was
16, Italian pioneer ufologist Gianni Settimo made it clear to me
that contactees are not ufologists. His exact words were that
between us (ufologists) and them (contactees) there is the same
difference as between the student of the Napoleon times and the
guy who says "I'm Napoleon". (To put it more gently, since they
are the phenomenon to be studied, they can't pose as researchers
at the same time.) But maybe Boylan has not yet figured out which
category he belongs to.

>I've never heard of Russo. Bongiovanni is famous, and has lectured in
>the United States at the International UFO Congress several times.

Yes, Bongiovanni is famous. But Billi Meier is, too, and George Adamski was yet
more famous. So what? Fame is not synonimous with reliability.

As far as myself, I will resist to the obvious joke that me too,
I never heard
of Boylan before (and still have managed to live well). I don't
either expect  him to frequent the same UFO circles or read/write
in the same UFO literature as I've been doing in the last 25
years, but my first article in the "Flying Saucer Review" was
published in 1979, and that same year I remember having presented
a paper at the First International UFO Congress held by BUFORA in
London and being appointed Italian delegate of the International
Committee on UFO Research (whose directors included J. Allen
Hynek and Walt Andrus). If Boylan ever happened to glance over
the "MUFON UFO Journal" (I've been MUFON Italian representative,
too) and the "International UFO Reporter" (not to pretend he ever
heard of European UFO journals), he might have found articles of
mine therein, too. More details he will find in Robert Boyd's
"Who's who in Ufology Directory" (1988).

>Mr. Russo's disrespectful attempt to turn Monsignor Balducci into
>"Mr." Balducci is a familiar old disdainful trick used by
>debunkers.

Shades of paranoia? Since when "Mr." is a sign of direspect or
disdain, instead of an acronym for either "Mister" or
"Monsignor"? Mmmh! Maybe I should suspect something, given "Mr."
Boylan's insistance at calling me "Mr. Russo" instead of the more
proper "Dr. Russo" he should use, shouldn't I?

>Mr. Russo's denial does not make Monsignor Balducci any less a
>Vatican theologian. Mr. Russo's denial does not stop Monsignor
>Balducci from continuing his membership on the Vatican commission
>studying extraterrestrial contacts.

Indeed he is neither, by his own admission. More about this later.

>Mr. Russo apparently lives up in Turin.

That's the only "apparently" correct comment about me in Boylan's
posting!

>My informant, the ACCET clinician interviewed Monsignor Balducci
>in Rome.

May I respectfully inform you, who live beyond the Big Pond, that
such an odd device as the telephone was invented by an Italian?
Do you really believe that 600 kilometers away means so great a
distance as to prevent me from Turin to talk with Corrado
Balducci in Rome?

>Mr. Russo's denial does not make him an expert on Vatican matters,

I never claimed to be one: and before stating what I did I did
check and get information from competent people (theologians).
Did Boylan ever try to?

>So Mr. Russo DOES acknowledge two of the five times that Monsignor
>Balducci has spoken about extraterrestrials on Italian television.

Not quite so: I did  give two precise dates (wasn't I the first
to do that?), but I had no need to "acknowledge" them, since I
never denied it. Indeed I also know of some more occasions, if
you extend the time span to the last ten years or so...

>Mr. Russo betrays his debunker hand here, labeling anyone who
>sees extraterrestrials as having souls a "spiritualist",

True: but maybe the language difference betrayed me: in Italian
"spiritualist" means precisely the attitude of those seeing a
spirit or soul in living beings (as opposed to "materialist"); in
English that meaning has only remained in the technical jargon of
philosophy, while the popular meaning of "spiritualism" has
become a synonimous of "spiritism", which is quite another
matter, not relevant here.

>and labeling ufo investigators who believe extraterrestrials
>have souls as "cultists".

Seems Mr Boylan's got some unresolved confusion in his mind as of
the difference between "UFO investigator" and "ET believer".
Anyway he doen't need to make me say what I did not: not every
believer is a cultist, though the contrary is true (never took
courses in formal logic).

>Gee, I thought we had enough debunkers on U.S. UFO newsgroups
>that we didn't need to import another one from Turin.

Gee, I think we had enough true believers and fanatics in Italian
ET buff groups that we don't need to import another one from
California.

Out of the "ad hominem" rhetoric, why wouldn't he expect that
Italian ufologists might be the better placed ones to check the
story?

>Mr. Russo is in error. I never said that Monsignor Balducci's
>declarations were all recent. Indeed, I pointed out that he has
>made the declarations of extraterrestrial contact reality on
>Italian television five times, obviously over a period of time.

Mr Boylan is in error (or should I say he has been forced to
acknowledge it was not recent?). I was not commenting what he
might have said or written (I didn't even know 'twas him the
source of the false news). I was asked to comment a news release
which said exactly that Balducci "has gone on national Italian
television five times in recent months to proclaim that
extraterrestrial contact is a real phenomenon".

>What is recent is the ACCET clinician's
>interview with Monsignor Balducci in Rome

Might we learn the name of that clinician, the date of her
interview with Balducci and a tape recording of it? Mr Balducci
asked me to get more details on that matter.

>Mr. Russo has it wrong again. I did not say Monsignor Balducci
>talked about UFOs; he talked about extraterrestrials as CERTAINLY
>real, and that they POSITIVELY have souls, NOT "possibly".

If so, Mr Boylan was in error, exactly as of those all-capital
words: certainly and positively, as we'll see.

>As usual, the debunkers have problems with the facts, because
>they don't want to hear the facts.

As usual, the true believers have problems with the facts,
because they don't want to hear the facts.

The real difference between them and real researchers (whom they
prefer to call "debunkers", for some reason) is that  believers
don't feel any need to check data and information, since they
already KNOW (well, they think they know) the Truth.

While Mr Boylan chose to belong to the first group, I feel
honored to be part of those not having a belief to defend, so I
DID check that unfounded rumour and traced it back to its primary
source: Mr Corrado Balducci.

Unfortunately for Richard Boylan and the other rumour-mongers,
Balducci DID deny all that was attributed to him and confirmed
all I stated. For sake of order and logic, the details of his
formal denial are contained in a separate message of mine, more
properly titled: "The Vatican and ETs: it WAS a hoax".

"Don't care about them but look and pass over", said the Poet.
But I am not a poet, I am a researcher. And I believe we should
never let false claims circulated, if we want ufology to be a
scientific-oriented field of study, instead of the mess some
well-identified characters have made it to become.

Regards


Edoardo Russo                             Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici
CISU, Casella postale 82, 10100 Torino - tel 011-3290279 - fax 011-545033
http://www.arpnet.it/~ufo          e-mail: edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 17

                   Vatican and ETs - Merely More Boylan BS

From: authority@webtv.net (Doc in Phoenix)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:38:07 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:27:16 -0400
Subject: Vatican and ETs - Merely More Boylan BS

[This and the other post regarding Boylan are for your
 information - only. These two messages are not a cue
 for discussion.

 a Boylan: a pimple on the buttock of Ufology  --ebk]


On Dr. Boylan's exaggerated story.

= Doc

_______________________________________

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:55:52 +0200
From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.ALPcom.it>
Subject: The Vatican and ETs: it WAS a hoax
To: authority@webtv.net (Doc in Phoenix)

Hello!

The story has been widely circulating in the last two weeks,
telling of "Vatican theologist" Corrado Balducci having been on
Italian national TV as many as five times in the last few months
in order to openly claim and admit that ET's exist, have souls
and - most extraordinary of all - the Vatican knows it, studies
them and collect data via a secret commission.

I have been asked to comment and have done so publicly, telling
nothing of that sort ever happened, but:

- Corrado Balducci is a known theologist but not a Vatican
  theologist, nor a spokesman for the Vatican;

- though a frequent guest at TV programs on a variety of
  subjects, UFOs and ET's included, his own personal opinions
  about the matter have been spread over several years, and
  there's nothing new now.

Some of the people originally diffusing the story, notably
Richard Boylan, chose to attack me personally for having said so,
and challenged my claims.

The most simple and logical thing to do was to ask directly
Corrado Balducci.

This I did yesterday, Thursday 15 April, in a very long (40
minutes) phone call.

He was at first surprised, then amused, at learning of the story
as it is circulating on the Internet.

He asked me to collect and send him copy of it all, for his own
files, and offered me his answers as of the many questions I
asked him.

Here is a synopsis, in order to close and settle the matter once
and for all.

1) He is no Vatican theologist

Corrado Balducci explained me in detail that he is just one of
the thousands theologists in Italy (most younger Catholic priests
have got a degree in theology)
and no special one. He is not working at the Vatican and is
retired now.

Moreover, no such thing as a "Vatican theologist" does exist: the
nearest thing would be the "theologist for the Holy Father" (an
elderly archbishop theologist acting as a consultant to the
Pope).

2) He is not a member of any Vatican commission on ET contacts,
which does not exist

He laughed a lot about the notion itself of a secret Vatican
commission on ET contacts, which he told me he felt sure was
non-existent, even if he is not working at the Vatican (but he's
got many many friends an colleagues therein and he told me he
would have known).

He authorized me to formally deny, in his own name, that either
he has ever been member of such commission or that he ever heard
of it.

As of the rumour that  Vatican Embassies would collect ET
contacts data and pass it on to the Vatican, he told me they have
better and more important things to do, and nothing of that sort
is even remotely believable.


3) He is not studying UFOs or ET contacts

He insisted he is specialized just in demonology, and his present
concerns are about New Age beliefs and new religions. UFOs and
ET's are not his own subject, he never wrote or presented the
Vatican any document on that subject ("not even two lines").

His own present opinion as of UFOs is that we must trust
testimonies, hence we cannot deny something is being seen.

His own present opinion as of ET intelligent beings is that, IF
THEY EXIST and  IF WE EVER MAKE CONTACT with them, they MIGHT
well be beings superior to us as of spirituality. IF THAT IS
TRUE, a contact might even be desirable for us.


4) He has not been speaking about UFO/ET on TV so frequently as
claimed

He does not recall having been a TV guest on the UFO/ET subject
as many as five times in a few months, though he has probably be
in a few years.

5) He never spoke in the name of the Vatican

All that he has been saying about UFOs or ET beings, on TV or
elsewhere, has always been his own personal opinion or even some
wild hypotheses based upon logic and his own feelings. He does
not feel either qualified or authorized to speak on behalf of the
Vatican, which would do so in much more formal ways. Nor did he
express official or unofficial opinions of the Vatican
hierarchy.


6) He never released any interview to "Nonsiamosoli"

He was flabbergasted at learning a whole series of out-of-context
quotations of his have been sold as an "interview" in Giorgio
Bongiovanni's "Nonsiamosoli" bulletin and website, since he has
always had a very bad opinion about Bongiovanni and his group and
even confronted him on TV (ironically: in one of those emissions
quoted by the ongoing story!) and told publically  he did not
believe Bongiovanni's stygmates came from God.

But he remembers having released a TV interview to Michael
Hesemann, last year, and telling the same opinions of his,
reported above. He wondered if that might be the original source,
though largely deformated in the subsequently circulated story.


- - -

A lot of comments might be added about the above points, but I
feel it safe not to add anything to the naked, first-hand
statements of the elderly clergyman himself.

Paranoids will surely go on alleging some dark cover-up, and
we'll leave 'em to their fantasies.

What remains is the fact that the story of the official Vatican
statements on the ET's, as circulated on the Internet, was
definitely a hoax.

Another fact is that the real truth was not found by those
rumour-mongers eager to promote just every wild story without
boring to check their sources, but by serious-minded ufologists.

Please feel free to quote, post, distribute the above where you
like.



Edoardo Russo                             Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici
CISU, Casella postale 82, 10100 Torino - tel 011-3290279 - fax 011-545033
http://www.arpnet.it/~ufo          e-mail: edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it






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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 17

                 Re: Lee Shargel rears his ugly head again?

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 07:14:56 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:34:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Lee Shargel rears his ugly head again?

I received this very strange message in my e-mails this
morning and thought I should forward it for your
edification.  BTW, pharmacokinetics?????

Bob
___________



Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:44:26 EDT
To: noah@webex.net
Cc: Bob Shell <76750.2717@CompuServe.com>, Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com
Subject: Leon Shargel

Gentlemen,

In searching the net for news on my friend, Leon Shargel, I found
your posted messages regarding Lee/Leon Shargel Research.

It appears that you are confusing Leon D. Shargel PhD with some
strange science fiction writer of the same name.  Leon D. Shargel
is a noted pharmacokinetics research scientist, an executive in
the pharmaceutical industry, and respected author and editor of
pharmacy-related textbooks.  He is not a NASA scientist, a UFO
enthusiast or any of the other characterizations associated with
"Lee Shargel".

I am dismayed and appalled by your association of Dr. Shargel
(through his pharmacy publications) with the unusual man you are
investigating.  Please make it clear to your associates that Dr.
Shargel is not the man you are looking for.

For your information, there is also an attorney in NYC by the
name of Leon Shargel.  I have serious doubts that he is your man
either.

Thank you,

Alice C. Engelbrecht
alix21@aol.com










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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 17

               Re: 'Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel

From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia]
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:28:47 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:54:00 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel

>>'Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel

>>From: fdoernen@ruhrgebiet.net,
>>Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
>>Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 02:13:03 +0200
>>Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:16:18 -0400
>>Subject: 'Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel

>>Received via the German newsgroup 'de.alt.ufo' on
>>April 14 at 00.26 local time (GMT + 1 hour). Two
>>other leading 'Mars Face' researchers Stanley
>>McDaniel and Tom Van Flandern were on the
>>same Laura Lee show April 11.

>>Stig

*******

>Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:18:05 GMT
>From: fdoernen@ruhrgebiet.net (Frank D=F6rnenburg)
>Subject: Vincent DiPietro
>Message-ID: <3531f42c.6277036@news.nacamar.de>

>Hi!

>Aus alt.fan.art-bell:
--------------------------
>"A Pile Of Rocks"

>Vincent DiPietro, the discoverer of the face on mars, has thrown
>in the towel, and said that the face on mars is a pile of rocks.
>He waved the white flag on the Laura Lee show,

>http://www.lauralee.com/archive/04_11_98.htm

----------------------

This is just another misleading post. Just as Kal Korff posted
incorrectly that Mark Carlotto was prepared to declare The Face a
natural object, this post is also incorrect by claiming DiPietro
"has thrown in the towel" and "waved the white flag".

If you listen to the Laura Lee interview, you will hear DiPietro
say that his first IMPRESSION & feelings from THIS photograph
would lean towards a natural explanation for The Face but made it
clear that he would like more photos of The Face before he could
come to a final conclusion. He even asked Tom Van Flandern to
send him some of Tom's enhancements that lead Van Flandern to his
artificial conclusion for The Face.

Just like Carlotto, DiPietro said it was too early to tell
anything and that he would reserve judgement until more data
could be collected. He said the photo doesn't prove anything one
way or the other, artificial or natural. He also said that IF The
Face is artificial, it could have been eroded over the many
hundreds of thousands of years and thus, the features of a face
could have been lessened from this erosion.

Now does this sound like he has thrown in the towel and waved the
white flag? I can't tell if this is a deliberate
misrepresentation from the person (Frank) who originally posted
it or is it just shoddy research. Most likely the latter. If
anybody disagrees with my assessment of DiPietro's opinion then
don't take my word, go listen to the interview on Laura Lee.
That's what I did. You can't trust anything until you look or
listen for yourself.

Oh yeah, I can't remember exactly what DiPietro said  regarding
his first impression after seeing the original NASA "cat box"
Face photo that was posted on NASA's web site but I know he was
disappointed that NASA released such a misleading photo. Also,
DiPietro knows that IF The Face is natural, it's an eroded Mesa
NOT a pile of rocks.

DiPietro is waiting until ALL the data is in. He's a true
scientist. We should all be that scientific.

Joe in Tampa

Joe in Tampa






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 17

                     Re: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 00:32:39 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:56:08 -0400
Subject: Re: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia


>From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia]
>Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 01:46:55 EDT
>To: UASR@MyList.net, updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: John Holliman on Cydonia

>Hi All,

>Holliman's message is below but first...

>Has anybody seen the new Cydonia image? Am I crazy
>or is there a clear, pyramidal shaped object, which
>appears to be partially buried in sand, located in the
>photo strip? It looks clear to me but supposedly I'm
>biased (According to some on this list) so I want
>to hear opinions from others.

>Good enhanced photo found at:

>http://www.bemyguest.com/mars/second.html

Thanks Joe.  I appreciate you posting the above address.
I think you are on to something.  Interesting...Yep...<G>

>Also,

>A lot of people (Kal Korrf & Bob Shell to name two),
>have knocked Richard Hoagland's claims & theories
>on Cydonia. Do the same people who think Hoagland
>is extremely biased also believe the same about Dr.
>Tom Van Flandern? He seems like a quality scientist.
>He also believes that The Face is definitely artificial.
>Do you think that Van Flandern is seeing what he
>wants to see too?

>Joe in Tampa

Joe, you would be better off, keeping such questions to a small
group of selected individuals with whom you wish to chat or
exchange mail privately.  You (and now I) have just opened
yourself up to all manner of ridicule for being so gullible.
<sigh...>

Yet some of these people who would make such statments, have
themselves made claims which they seem to expect everyone else to
"take as the gospel," so to speak and not question the validity
of their claims.But at the same time, they have no problem
challenging the validity of others who make similar or totally
different claims.

This is just between you and I, Joe.  I have no intention of
replying to anyone else who might feel they want to intrude in
"our" conversation.


REgards, Mike


 The fastest way to respond to this message is through the ICQ Network. A
message   sent  this way will go directly to my screen.
 If you have ICQ you can message me at ICQ#:7508455.
 If you don't have ICQ you can page me through:  My Personal Communication
Center:   http://wwp.mirabilis.com/7508455 (go there and try it!)
 Or you can send me a regular e-mail to my EmailExpress address:
7508455@pager.mirabilis.com.
 Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
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                         Lots of Comics & Newspapers

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:47:45 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:47:45 -0400
Subject: Lots of Comics & Newspapers

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:32:58 -0400
To: updates@globalserve.net
From: SKvs <bradford@globalserve.net> [Sue Kovios]
Subject: Lots of Comics & Newspapers

To The List,

I came across this while searching Canoe.com for the 'In The
Bleachers' alien cartoon in the Toronto Sun April 16/98. If you
like cartoons, you'll love searching the endless list and if
looking for a newspaper, you can do it there too.

Enjoy.

http://www2.uclick.com/demo/index.html

Sue Kovios


  No pienses que es imposible,
  confia en tu corazon,
  nada es lo que parece,
  el mundo es una ilusion.

(translation:
  Don't think it's impossible,
  trust your heart,
  nothing is what it seems
  the world is an illusion.)





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   Apr > Apr 18

                   eSufo - Cydonia "city" images available

From: "David Watanabe" <davew@exosci.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 02:50:34 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 06:03:36 -0400
Subject: eSufo - Cydonia "city" images available

exoScience UFO * 4/15/98 * exosci.com/ufo

* CYDONIA "CITY" IMAGES FROM MARS GLOBAL SURVEYOR

  - the MGS has now imaged the "City" portion of Cydonia.  The
images are available on our website.


* NEW MARS FACE IMAGE POSTED

  - many people (myself included) were having trouble visualizing
how the Face structure could actually have produced the Viking
images, as the Viking images showed something quite protruding.
This was a problem with some of the early MGS images NASA
released which weren't really enhanced properly.  so...

.. We've posted a new, much better enhanced image which really
shows the 3D structure of the Face.  This image makes the Viking
images quite reasonable and understandable.  A MUST SEE!!!

  http://exosci.com/probes/mgs/


 David Watanabe
 davew@exosci.com

____________________________________________________
exoScience UFO=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
 http://exosci.com/ufo/

****************************************************
To SUBSCRIBE / UNSUBSCRIBE, send email to:
     davew@exosci.com
with either "subscribe ufo" or "unsubscribe ufo" (no
quotation marks) in the SUBJECT.
****************************************************

To POST, send email for approval to:
     davew@exosci.com
____________________________________________________
Written on the campus of UBC in Vancouver BC, Canada
exosci.com served using Pair Networks - www.pair.com
Copyright (c) 1998 David Watanabe - davew@exosci.com






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             Abductee.net Launches Community Site To Explore ET

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:10:42 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 06:06:28 -0400
Subject: Abductee.net Launches Community Site To Explore ET

>From URLwire. Go to

http://www.urlwire.com/newsarchive/041698.html

*******


URLwire tm news stories are for significant Web events, launches, and
happenings ONLY. I post a selection of them as a courtesy to Web
journalists for story leads. The primary distribution is via private
Email.

Request the advance *Email version here.


Date: Thursday, April 16, 1998


Abductee.net Launches Community Site To Explore Mystery Of Extra
Terrestrial Life


Mulder and Sculley would be proud. Abductee.net today announced the
opening of its Internet site

http://www.abductee.net

Abductee allows visitors to explore the mystery of extra terrestrial
life, share experiences, and, naturally, shop for Abductee related
products. This is not your typical UFO site, however. The quality of
content and sense of purpose is evident right from the first screen.

Abductee's vision is to share the mystery of extra terrestrial life
with people around the globe. Visitors can learn about the latest
information on UFO's, extra terrestrials, alien abduction and
government conspiracy. Visitors to Abductee can also file UFO reports,
chat with people around the world about extra terrestrials, submit
their alien stories & pictures and enter contests to win Abductee
products.

Abductee has teamed up with BCTEL Interactive
(http://www.ecomm.bctel.ca/) to provide a unique shopping
experience that allows people from around the world to browse
on-line for Abductee products and make purchases with their
credit card in a secure environment. Abductee offers a broad line
of high quality products which it will ship anywhere on Earth.

Abductee was created by a young entrepreneur, Paul McTaggart, who
decided to quit his job at a large brokerage firm and follow his
dream. He wanted to combine his passion for business with his
love of the mystery of extra terrestrial life.

The Abductee web site was designed in cooperation with Atomic
Crayon


*Other recent URLwire headlines

This is a private Web-based version of Eric Ward's URLwire tm
advance E-mail news service. The URLwire is sent via Email only
to media folks who cover specific upcoming Web events, breaking
Web news & significant Web launches, in ten countries. =BFIt is NOT
automated, and is matched exactly to your topic interests, so if
you'd like me to begin sending them to you, please Email your
topic preferences.

Online news services are welcome to point to this advance
story... -

Eric






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                           NY State MUFON Web Page

From: RobertC130 <RobertC130@aol.com> [Bob Canino]
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 08:48:13 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 06:12:27 -0400
Subject: NY State MUFON Web Page

New York State MUFON has announced that its website -
www.nymufon.org. - is now active. The site contains current
cases, historical information as well as the toll-free NY STATE
SIGHTINGS HOTLINE (1-888-311-9066). "We envision our webpage as
not only a place where those interested in researching the UFO
phenomenon can come only not only for specific information, but a
place they can come to exchange information as well, " said
webmaster Larry Clark. "To that end we have also posted the
names, addresses and contact numbers for our group here in
Upstate.

Newly appointed State Section Director for Schuyler County and
abduction researcher Bob Long agrees that the website will help
the group reach out and network with others. "I've talked with
quite a few other investigators in the field and they all agreed
that the time to network and share information has never been
more pressing. We feel all feel that the new Website is another
good step in that direction."

The groups other planned activities include a newsletter, an
active outreach / education program and a regional cable access





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                    Nua Blather: About that Millennium...

From: Dave Walsh <dave@nua.ie>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:00:44 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 06:09:20 -0400
Subject: Nua Blather: About that Millennium...

*******************************************************************
NUA BLATHER  NUA BLATHER NUA BLATHER
Weekly free email of Dogma Destruction,
Forteana and High Weirdness

By Daev Walsh   Email: blather@nua.ie
Web: http://www.nua.ie/blather/
*******************************************************************
April 17th 1998  Published By:  Nua Limited  Vol 1. No. 49
*******************************************************************

ABOUT THAT MILLENNIUM. . .
Last week, bizarre as it may seem, I found a copy of the
palaeontologist and evolutionary biologist Stephen Jay Gould's
'Questioning the Millennium' lying upon my infamous couch . Not
having the faintest idea as to where it had materialised from, I went
and read it. I'm an admitted Gould virgin, not having managed to get
round to perusing his texts, but while he is spoken of fairly highly
with regard to his evolutionary work, I gather that there is some
hestitation towards attributing kudos to his exploits outside his
this field.


In 'Questioning the Millennium', Gould carefully weaves his way
through our numeric foibles, pointing out the absurdity of our
obsession with the forthcoming change of millennium. He's quick to
ram home the understanding that the millennium is not something that
will happen in a couple of years time -- that the millennium is an
arbitrary period of 1000 years, not an event that will take place on
some December 31st. I say some, as Gould takes time to highlight the
'which year' problem - should we be celebrating the turn of
millennium at the change of 1999-2000 or 2000-2001? It's worth
bearing in mind that the media and the 'elite'' classes refrained
from celebrating the new 20th century until January 1st 1901, whilst
the 'vernacular classes' had their hooley on December 31st 1899. This
time round, the big push is for 1999-2000, a choice which is open to
some debate, and perhaps criticism. Gould attributes this to the
homogenisation of popular and 'elite' culture, and I would add the
widespread growth of literacy to this soup.

This controversy, Gould tells us, is due to the work of Dionysius
Exiguus (Dennis the Little), who, in 525, was instructed by Pope St.
John I to prepare the 'Cyclus Paschalis', a history of the Christian
Era. To be very brief, Dionysius placed the Birth of Christ at the
beginning of year 1 AD - rather than 0 AD. This causes a problem --
for instance, it presumably places Jesus's age at 1 year old on the
day of his alleged birth. Gould expands on this, explaining that if
each decade has to have 10 years (in the case of Dionysius, that goes
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10), and every century is to have 100 years, year
100 becomes stuck in that century, and the dawn of a new century is
on January 1st 101. Continue on, in this pattern and we arrive at
2000-2001 as the change to the new millennium.

As Gould points out, 'we should not be overly harsh on poor Dennis',
as western mathematics in the sixth century had not yet developed a
concept of zero. The Egyptians had used one, albeit sporadically, and
the Chinese didn't have one (although it was implied by the abacus).
The Mayans did have a zero, but it was not used in a 'fully
systematic way' in their calculations' -- and it's fair to say that
wee Dennis knew nothing of the Mayans.

There's much more to Gould's research into the millennium - he goes
to great lengths to discuss the history of 'millennium as
apocalypse', and the many failed predictions which concerned the
apocalypse, especially those which imply that the world is only
in the sixth millennium of existence, the post apocalyptic
seventh becoming a questionable metaphor for the final day of
biblical God's burst of creativity, on which he rested.


In contradiction to the popular opinion concerning the last
millennial change, i.e. that there was *no* hysterical apocalyptic
panic, Gould tells of a lecture that he attended, where Medieval
historian Richard Landes claimed that the 'famous chronologies of
Venerable Bede, that redoubtable eighth century English cleric and
scholar, had been copied extensively and widely distributed to almost
canonical use among ecclesiastical timekeepers throughout Europe.
Bede followed and popularized the B.C-A.D. system. Through his works,
the advent of the year 1000 -- and its millennial implications -- had
probably diffused to all social classes'. The idea that *nothing
happened* is based on the theory that no one really knew when the new
millennium started -- personally I haven't seen enough evidence to
convince me either way.

A pleasant read, but I fear that the only people who will read
'Questioning the Millennium' are already wearing their 'I am a
Millennial Cynic' t-shirts, where as those who would benefit the most
from a brief perusal have been happily whisked along in the
pre-millennial stampede of hope and faith.


'Questioning the Millennium : A Rationalist's Guide to a Precisely
Arbitrary Countdown'
Harmony Books 1997
ISBN: 0609600761
http://bot.fringeware.com/browse?search_code=BOOK-0-609-60076-1



AND FOOLS SELDOM DIFFER
Interestingly, in Blather 1.47
(http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/issue1no47.html)was emailed out
on April 3rd. In a piece regarding God's Salvation Church, Blather
stated:

        'From Blather's perspective, God's Salvation Church seem
like just another cult obsessed with their own version of the
Rapture. The media police presence on Tuesday was
apparently due to fears of a mass suicide. Blather would
like to suggest that many of the media representatives
covering the story were *hoping* for a mass suicide, to
achieve a major *scoop*, therefore blackmailing the police
force and emergency services into tagging along. It would
have been a major embarrassment for the local authorities
had something deathly *actually* happened, given the
clouds of media scavengers collecting in the area. '

On April 4th, The Economist (http://www.economist.co.uk)had an
article on page 29 titled 'Waiting for God. Oh'.

'The odd thing was not that Mr Chen persuaded 150 Taiwanese members
of God's Salvation Church to move to Garland in the hope of being
sucked up by God into a flying saucer made of tin cans; it was that
American newspapers and television found the tiny sect worthy of
headlines. Religion, alien abduction and prophetic movements related
to the millennium are now big news. A chance of mass suicide--as with
the Heaven's Gate cult in San Diego last year, or in the inferno of
the Branch Davidians in Waco--tempts the networks to give air-time to
the strangest groups, just in case they do something horrible on a
large scale.'


Due to the realisation that we are now in the same league as the
esteemed aforementioned journal, Blather hopes to soon start carrying
news of weekly stockmarket anomalies. . .

ADMIN NOTE
Blather, as subscribers may have noticed, is weekly, and arrives on
Friday/Saturday. If anyone thinks that that some issues *haven't*
arrived in their mailbox, please let me know -- blather@nua.ie


Dave Walsh
April 17th 1998


Feedback and comments to <blather@nua.ie>

Have your say: http://www.nua.ie/blather/blabber

*******************************************************************

NUA INTERNET SURVEYS
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interesting surveys containing data relating to the Internet.
It is available by sending an email to
<surveys-request@lists.best.com>
with the word "subscribe" in the body of the message.

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A monthly newsletter, What's New is a free monthly newsletter
highlighting the new additions, happenings and changes at Nua.
It is available by sending an email to
<whatsnew-requestlists.best.com>
with the word "subscribe" in the body of the message.

NUA NEW THINKING
New Thinking is a free, weekly, 500-word email column, whose
objective is to contribute to a practical philosophy for The
Digital Age. It is available by sending an email to
<newthinking-request@lists.best.com> with the word "subscribe" in
the body of the message.

*******************************************************************

SPONSORSHIP:
While Blather will always remain free to the subscriber, Nua is
always willing to talk to interested parties with regard to
sponsorship.
Contact Daev Walsh: <daev@nua.ie>

*******************************************************************

Blather archives, please go to:
http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/index.html

*******************************************************************

NUA LIMITED
Nua, a vibrant, innovative, Irish company whose focus is in helping
progressive organisations adapt to the new environment created by the
Internet. We have the management/marketing, design and technical
skills to truly understand your unique situation, and to translate
that understanding into a successful Internet presence for you.

Nua has received an array of awards since its genesis in 1996. Among
those are the coveted  "Best Overall World Wide Web Business Achievement"
the top prize for website development in Europe.
http://www.nua.ie/about/review.html

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____________________________________________________________________
NUA : Internet Consultancy & Developer         http://www.nua.ie/
Dave Walsh <daev@nua.ie> Tel: +353-1-676-8996  Fax: +353-1-661-3932
Blather: http://www.nua.ie/blather - Weekly paranormal meanderings





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   Apr > Apr 18

                     Re: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 08:51:28 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 06:16:38 -0400
Subject: Re: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia

>Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:26:16 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia


>I find that when dealing with photos, "proof" (like "beauty") is
>often in the eye of the beholder.  I looked at the images and
>don't see obvious "proof", which is especially true when shown
>next to the Giza images.  On the other hand, the site didn't give
>an explanation of the distance from objects shown in either
>photograph, so I'm not sure how good (or valid) the comparison
>is. It is interesting, though.

I run into this all the time.  I look at literally thousands of
photographs a month, and often do not see what someone claims is
in them.  There is such a thing as visual literacy, learning to
observe and not just see (as Sherlock Holmes would put it), and
it comes from many years of looking at images.  A friend of mine
(John Durniak) who died not long ago was Photo Editor at Life
magazine for many years. John and I would look at the same photo
and he would always astonish me by pointing out things in the
image that I had not observed. I like to think that over the
years that I knew him, my skills improved, and I was seeing just
about everything he was in the images.  This is a learned skill,
and a big part of image evaluation is intuitive.

I've looked at these Mars images hard and long, in all of the
versions, and I honestly just do not see anything that looks
even remotely artificial.

>>Also,

>>A lot of people (Kal Korrf & Bob Shell to name two),
>>have knocked Richard Hoagland's claims & theories
>>on Cydonia. Do the same people who think Hoagland
>>is extremely biased also believe the same about Dr.
>>Tom Van Flandern? He seems like a quality scientist.
>>He also believes that The Face is definitely artificial.
>>Do you think that Van Flandern is seeing what he
>>wants to see too?

>>Joe in Tampa

>How about word that Vince DiPietro has "thrown in the towel" in
>regard to the Mars "Face".  Do you think he has given in too
>easily?

No.  He is just facing reality.  I wish the others would.  There
is simply NOTHING in these photos to suggest artificial anything,
and he is not hidebound by "religious" belief.

>Unfortunately, I think there are quite a few that won't be
>convinced until we're able to walk around the "City" and see what
>it looks like at ground level.

Based on some of the posts I'm seeing, these people would not be
convinced even then!!!!

As for NASA agreeing to continue imaging Cydonia until the
controversy is laid to rest, I wish them luck.  They just don't
know what they are dealing with.  Much additional imaging would
be a truly tragic waste of resources.

>PS-  Somehow, I'm not sure that Bob Shell or Kal Korff are
>overjoyed at being compared to one another as equals. . . . <g>

That's OK, Steve.  The more I deal with some of the idiots in
this field, the more I am liking ol' Kal.  The 'true believers'
may make a skeptic out of me yet.

Bob








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   Apr > Apr 18

                Re: Mars, Rorschach Test of the Solar System

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:48:17 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 06:20:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars, Rorschach Test of the Solar System

>Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:24:21 -0700
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Geoff Price <Geoff@CalibanMW.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Mars, Rorschach Test of the Solar System

>>Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:08:27 -0400
>>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto"
>>From: xzone@webgate.net [Rob McConnell]
>>Subject: Reports that NASA to Announce Artifical Structures on
>>         Mars denied by NASA JPL and Lockheed/Martin in Denver,
>>         Co.


>>London, Ontario, Canada: In a telephone interview with Rob
>>McConnell, NASA JPL Spokesperson and Manager of Media Services,
>>FRANK O'DONNELL, stated that the story being  circulated on the
>>internet pertaining to an alleged statement that NASA would be
>>releasing as to alleged "artifical structures" on Mars as
>>captured by the MGS are unfounded - and were denied.

>Wait just a darn minute!  I have right here a copy of a UFO
>Update message where someone quoted a news release from someone
>who has a friend who works for a real defense contractor who has
>the inside scoop on NASA who said *exactly the opposite*!

>Have these people not seen the same photos I have, with the domes
>and excavation sites and partially submerged pyramids with
>extensive evidence of large burial chambers?

>What the heck is going on!

The posted statement was not a "news release", nor did it purport
to quote from a "news release".  It said, in part:

->FROM:  Fred Kurros

->According to some of my sources at Lockheed/Martin here in
->Denver, NASA and Malin will soon be announcing that they believe
->that the structure in the new Mars Global Surveyor pictures is
->actually an artificial structure. According to these sources, the
->data and the image itself are nearly a full-blown smoking gun.

Perhaps staff at Lockheed/Martin are aware of more information
than the JPL Spokesman has at his disposal, but this is little
more than annecdotal hearsay without names to attribute the
statement to.  It could be argued that the PR department is often
the last to know when major policy shifts are contemplated, and
NASA/JPL is a fairly large and diverse organization.

But while I would like to be wrong, I doubt such an announcement
is forthcoming from NASA.  As Hoagland and others point out, it
was NASA that commissioned the study in the early 60s that says
humanity would have to be prepared for such an information
release.  IMO, I suspect that even if artificial structures were
confirmed on Mars, the information would be handed over to
another Federal entity and NASA would let that entity take
responsibility for the announcement.

It should also be noted that the "Kurros" article was
cross-posted from the RISKERS/NUFORIA "list", and was not
originally posted to UpDates.  I don't have a problem with cross
posting, but it is sometimes important to see the progression of
information around the "net".

Steve







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   Apr > Apr 18

               Re: 'Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel

From: Kal K. Korff <totlresrch@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:17:58 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 07:06:40 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel

>From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia]
>Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:28:47 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net, UASR@MyList.net
>Subject: DiPietro Throws in the Towel?

Joe Murgia wrote:

<snip>

>This is just another misleading post. Just as Kal Korff posted
>incorrectly that Mark Carlotto was prepared to declare The Face a
>natural object, this post is also incorrect by claiming DiPietro
>"has thrown in the towel" and "waved the white flag".

Dear Joe:

I don't intend on getting into a long debate over this with you,
or anyone else... especially since you said you had a nightmare
about me, :-) -- but let's get something straight here.

SOME of the "face" on Mars "researchers" are telling the media
different stories. I did NOT mislead or misquote the MSN
reporter, contrary to your statement, and I think you know this.
YOU never spoke to the reporter, I did.

As you also know, I believe, I am also an investigative
journalist and I talk to and work with the media all the time.

>Just like Carlotto, DiPietro said it was too early to tell
>anything and that he would reserve judgement until more data
>could be collected. He said the photo doesn't prove anything one
>way or the other, artificial or natural. He also said that IF The
>Face is artificial, it could have been eroded over the many
>hundreds of thousands of years and thus, the features of a face
>could have been lessened from this erosion.

Nonsense: the issue boils down to this: SOME of the face on Mars
"experts," used their "science" to "prove" there was a "face" on
Mars -- "pyramids," a "city," and other such tripe.

Now that they have more definitive images to work with, "they're
not sure."

Yeah, right.

NASA and JPL certainly seem to be sure...indeed, it seems as if
only those with a vested interest, like Hoagland, are expressing
doubts or are crying "conspiracy."

The FACT is, the original "science" these "experts" used was
either flawed or at best, inconclusive. However, they won't even
admit this. In the case of others, they just made it up a la Jim
Dilettoso style.

The "erosion" argument you also use to rationalize the fact that
there is no "face," is also absurd....it's beyond credbility that
"such a well defined face" could "erode" this much, (hundreds of
cubic meters of surface and rocker over all) after just barely
over 20 years since the Viking mission images were first taken.

Think about it, Joe.

I would like to see two things happen: 1) Get these "face" types
to finally admit there is no face, (I exclude Hoagland from this
list because who cares what he thinks) -- 2) Hold accountible
these "experts" for the "science" they originally (mis)used to
"prove" their "case for the face."

These "experts" can't have it both ways -- if their "science" was
accurate to begin with, conclusive and very visible evidence of a
face would be visible on mars today. Instead, what is visible are
mountains and other geological structures that look very
natural/normal.

These "researchers" should also explain how and why their
"science" blew up in their, excuse the pun, collective face to
begin with.

Facts are facts, joe, they don't suddenly "change" 20 odd years
later -- if these "facts" were really facts to begin with. To put
it more simply: 2+2 has always equaled four, even when viking
first started imaging the planet mars.

As I have said repeatedly to numerous "face" believers over the
years, the "evidence" for the "face" was always shaky. Now it
seems to be conclusive, and these guys have egg on their "face"
and they rightly deserve it.

Hoagland is Hoagland, like Dilettoso is Dilettoso -- need I say
more??

Kal Korff








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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 18

             Re: UK.UFO.NW -IRC- guest Philippe Piet van Putten

From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 18:42:09 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 06:42:59 -0400
Subject: Re: UK.UFO.NW -IRC- guest Philippe Piet van Putten

UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK

- Please note that uk.ufo.nw have now changed IRC servers. We now
meet on Chatnet. A full list of Chatnet servers can be found at
the foot of this mail -

Saturday 25th April 1998

United Kingdom UFO Network special guest:

Philippe Piet van Putten

Philippe will be answering your questions live in a moderated
meeting starting at 11pm (UK time) Saturday 25th April 1998.

Philippe will be connecting from Sao Paulo, Brazil and telling us
of all that is going on there.

-- BIOGRAPHY --

Born in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, on february 21, 1959.

Obtained a Bachelor Degree (BA) in Social Communications from the
Graduate College of Advertising and Marketing (ESPM)in 1986.

Director of the Brazilian Academy of Parasciences (ABP) and
National Director for Picard UFO Research International
(PUFORI).

Editor of the bimonthly bulletin Aerospatial Phenomena (entering
its 4th year of publication).

Former member of APRO, NICAP, CUFOS and MUFON.

Finishing an Encyclopedia of UFOs and Anomalous Aerospatial
Phenomena (to be released in the next few months).

Creator of the modern scientific-spiritualism (a parascience
devoted to the study of metaconsciousness and religious
experience).

Has traveled promoting scientific-spiritualism, UFOlogy,
arapsychology and other parasciences (India, Switzerland,
England, USA, France etc).

-- Some addional info can be found within WUFOR web site
-- http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/swampthing/20/

---

If you are using one of the dedicated IRC programs such as the
excellent MIRC available free from: http://www.mirc.co.uk/ enter
one of the below irc server addresses into your program. The
nearer the server to your location the faster the connection. If
one fails then try another.

MIRC is probably the best IRC program there is and it's free. To
download MIRC for Win95 or Win 3.1/3.11 fully configured for
connection goto:

http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk

Select the 'Other Files' button.

To connect to the IRC channel using your java compatible web
browser goto:

http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk
http://www.crowman.demon.co.uk

-Chatnet Servers-

LosAngeles.CA.US.ChatNet.Org
Pocatello.ID.US.ChatNet.Org
Chelmsford.MA.US.ChatNet.Org
Louisville.KY.US.ChatNet.Org
Portland.OR.US.Chatnet.Org
SLC.UT.US.ChatNet.Org
k9.chatnet.org
Tupelo.MS.US.Chatnet.Org
RockHill.SC.US.ChatNet.Org
StLouis.MO.US.Chatnet.Org
Pensacola.FL.US.ChatNet.org
Chicago.IL.US.ChatNet.Org
Skien.NO.EU.ChatNet.Org
London.UK.EU.ChatNet.Org
Dayton.OH.US.ChatNet.Org
Scranton.PA.US.ChatNet.Org
SF.CA.US.ChatNet.Org
ChatWorld.ChatNet.Org
WalnutCreek.CA.US.ChatNet.Org

Times of the meeting will vary depending on your part of the
world. We advise you to check for equivalent UK times.


We look forward to seeing you there.
--------------------------------
United Kingdom UFO Network
ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk
http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/
--------------------------------






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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 18

                Re: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell

From: galevy <galevy@pipeline.com> [Gary Alevy]
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 00:37:00 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 07:13:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell

> From: JBONJO@aol.com [James Bond Johnson]
> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:12:36 EST
> To: updates@globalserve.net, DRudiak@aol.com
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell

> >From: DRudiak@aol.com [David Rudiak]
> >Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:13:54 EST
> >To: updates@globalserve.net
> >Subject:  Re: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell

> <snip>

> >David Rudiak


> David,

> I have an email signed by you.  It is difficult to tell whether
> it came directly from you or from UFO Updates in Toronto, and
> which parts were written by you and which parts were written by
> others.  To respond to the final statement:

> >One wonders what happened to make Johnson change his mind about
> >all this and start accusing Kevin Randle of misrepresenting his
> >original testimony.

> You might try asking me.

> JBONJO

> http://www.ufomind.com/people/j/johnsonj/   James Bond Johnson
> http://www.execpc.com/vjentpr/jbond.html  Roswell Crash Photographer

Hello,

I never saw this post answered on the list. I'd be interested in
knowing.

Gary








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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 18

                               Re: BWWMA Flash

From: BufoCalvin <BufoCalvin@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 22:49:59 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 07:26:39 -0400
Subject: Re: BWWMA Flash

Bufo Calvin
P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA  94596
Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Website: <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin">http://members.aol.com/bufo
calvin<;/a>
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this
edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that attribution is made
to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with
strangers before you e-mail them something.  If you forward this, please make
sure it is clear that you are forwarding it).
Quickie, to be followed by a fuller one.

Loyd Auerbach, nationally known "ghostbuster" will be on the return of
UNSOLVED MYSTERIES (now on CBS) tonight.  He was investigating a case in
Vancouver.  The new UM website is ( <A HREF="http://unsolved.com/home.html">
Unsolved Mysteries - Television Show</A> ) .

This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!"

____________________________

You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly
redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by
e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com.  You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to
Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert the same way. Also, please let me know if
there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, t
he week before.
_____________________________

**OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an
Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS
encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions:
however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece
or others presented under my own name.
______________________________

<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/weirdware/books.html">Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Books</
A>
I'm very excited about this!  Some of you know, I ran a bookstore for years, and
 it has always been a love of mine.  I get asked often to recommend
books(I do write reviews for several publications) on these topics, and now I
can do it and actually give you a source for them at the same time!  This is
being done in association with Amazon.com, which has an outstanding
reputation for the five "S"s of internet shopping: selection, searchability,
service, savings, and security.  If there is any specific book you want (or
topic in which you are interested), let me know and I will do the research
and e-mail you a link you can use to check it out more (and order it if you
want).  I will be linking to books within the Media Alert, to make it more
efficient for you.  If you click on the link, you will be sent to that title
on Amazon. You do =not= have to buy it at that point!  You may, but the
option is yours.






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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 18

                     Re: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 06:11:12 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 07:33:08 -0400
Subject: Re: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia

> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 08:51:28 -0400
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia

> >Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:26:16 -0400
> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia

> >I find that when dealing with photos, "proof" (like "beauty") is
> >often in the eye of the beholder.  I looked at the images and
> >don't see obvious "proof", which is especially true when shown
> >next to the Giza images.  On the other hand, the site didn't give
> >an explanation of the distance from objects shown in either
> >photograph, so I'm not sure how good (or valid) the comparison
> >is. It is interesting, though.

> I run into this all the time.  I look at literally thousands of
> photographs a month, and often do not see what someone claims is
> in them.  There is such a thing as visual literacy, learning to
> observe and not just see (as Sherlock Holmes would put it), and
> it comes from many years of looking at images.

<snipped wan pontification>

> That's OK, Steve.  The more I deal with some of the idiots in
> this field, the more I am liking ol' Kal.  The 'true believers'
> may make a skeptic out of me yet.

> Bob

I submit, sir, that you are not in a position to make a competent
assessment on the efficacy of idiots _or_ true believers. You'll
have to lose about nine tenths of your smirking,
self-righteousness for that.

Perhaps you should begin by questioning the colossal relief I
perceive you are feeling in light of the current *evidence*
(every word you write fair drips with it) regarding a discredited
Cydonia.

". . .don't know who their dealing with," indeed. They are
dealing with a growing population of people that are leery of a
government that is not forthcoming. They are dealing with people
becoming tired of the actions of shadowy control bodies with
hidden agendas. They are dealing with people becoming tired of
smirking elitism from grasping clueless pundits of the most
exciting occurrences of our times! They are certainly not dealing
with _you_, sir -- of that I can be certain.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com


--
Explore the Alien View?

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake.







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   Apr > Apr 18

                     Re: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia

From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia]
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 00:59:28 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 07:30:57 -0400
Subject: Re: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia

>Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 00:32:39 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia

Joe Murgia wrote:

>>A lot of people (Kal Korrf & Bob Shell to name two),
>>have knocked Richard Hoagland's claims & theories
>>on Cydonia. Do the same people who think Hoagland
>>is extremely biased also believe the same about Dr.
>>Tom Van Flandern? He seems like a quality scientist.
>>He also believes that The Face is definitely artificial.
>>Do you think that Van Flandern is seeing what he
>>wants to see too?

>>Joe in Tampa

>Joe, you would be better off, keeping such questions to a small
>group of selected individuals with whom you wish to chat or
>exchange mail privately.  You (and now I) have just opened
>yourself up to all manner of ridicule for being so gullible.
><sigh...>

>Yet some of these people who would make such statments, have
>themselves made claims which they seem to expect everyone else to
>"take as the gospel," so to speak and not question the validity
>of their claims.But at the same time, they have no problem
>challenging the validity of others who make similar or totally
>different claims.

>This is just between you and I, Joe.  I have no intention of
>replying to anyone else who might feel they want to intrude in
>"our" conversation.


>REgards, Mike


Mike,

Bob Shell, Kal Korrf and many other people on this list have
really helped me out. They have made me a more balanced
researcher and made me more careful of what I say. I am also a
lot better at arguing my position than I was one month ago. I try
to stay neutral but it's hard sometimes because this topic is so
exciting.

I have nothing against anybody on this list. I don't agree with a
lot of people's overly skeptic approach but that's their right to
free speech. I'm still skeptical of artificial structures on Mars
but I'll read as much research on the subject as I can. I want
hard proof! The new second image showing what appears to be a
pyramidal shaped object buried in the sand is not hard proof but
it's very interesting.

Why has this list been so silent over this new image? I really
want to see what Bob, Kal and others think about this "thing".
I'm curious as to what their opinion is.

Mike, thanks for the support and the advice. I will continue to
post my feelings on this list and if people want to ridicule me
and call me gullible, let them. I'm 33 years old next week and I
really don't care what people think of my opinions. All they are
right now are opinions.

I feel in my heart that we will find evidence of past intelligent
beings on Mars one day but if we don't, I wouldn't be shocked or
devastated. My heart has been wrong on more than one occasion.

Another piece of this Cydonia puzzle comes from a remote viewing
session on Cydonia done by Joe McMoneagle. If anybody doesn't
think remote viewing can gather accurate data, you haven't done
your research.

Check out:

http://www.espresearch.com/webfiles/0evidence.html

You can see how accurate some of the best viewers can get. Some
of the targets were provided by the CIA.

I suggest that if anybody wants to read the entire Cydonia and
surrounding area session or learn more about remote viewing, buy
Mind Trek or check it out of the library. It's a great book by
the world's greatest RVr. It shows, with years of hard work, how
to learn RV on your own. Joe's a great guy. I have emailed back &
forth with him on a number of occasions and he is a very humble
person for somebody with such a fantastic gift.

****

Joe McMoneagle is one of the best remote viewers in the world.
Joe did a RV session on Cydonia in 1984 while he was at the
Monroe Institute working on improving RV with Robert Monroe.
Among the sessions they had Joe work were The St. Louis Arch &
Devil's Tower and Pompeii. They slipped the Cydonia & surrounding
area session in on Joe in the middle of all the other normal
targets.

As with every good RV session, Joe (The viewer) was kept totally
blind to what the target was. He was just told to describe what
he "saw".

His first impression was of pyramids. He picked up that the
"megalithic" pyramids were built for shelters from some sort of
major geological trauma. Also, he picked up that there were
obelisks. He also kept saying that everything was big & very
huge, including the "people".
More on them later.

Later on Joe's impressions were that this geological trauma was
from this place going though "cosmic crapola" or the pieces of a
big comet. This event destroyed the environment and forced these
"people" to escape to a safer place. Not all could go so the
others that had to stay built the pyramids to protect themselves
from the coming disaster. The environment was deteriorating very
quickly.

This place where these "people" lived was dying and the next
place that some of the people went to so they could survive was
just starting to really come alive. (Maybe Earth?)

Joe reported that some of these "people" escaped on a large boat
so they could go safely to this new place. The large boat had
rounded walls and shiny metal.  (In RV you TRY not to identify
things, you TRY to just describe what you "see". This "boat"
sounds  like a saucer to me.)

The people are described as very tall. They are, according to
Joe, gargantuan people. They are humanoid in form and have large
bone structure. They wear tight fitted clothing. Joe says during
the session that these people look like we would if we mutated 6
times over the next 10,000 years.

The ones that had to remain behind locked themselves away in the
pyramids as if in a state of hibernation. They needed to "sleep"
through these "savage storms". The search party that looked for
another place to live would hopefully return with this new
information while the others who stayed behind, waited for their
return.

The place where these people lived, according to Joe, was dry. It
had water but they really had to process to get it. They just
couldn't go up to a pond.

The whole time during this session, Joe felt like he was in
Egypt.

*********
Remember, Joe knew NOTHING about this session before he started
to report data. Joe, in the book, says this is not proof of
anything but it sure was interesting. He did an incredible
drawing of a city with many large, 4 sided pyramids. He
reccomended NASA get better photos of Mars in order to settle the
controversy. He says "I would think that people in our government
wouldn't hesitate to investigate." Fourteen years later, he was
right!

For those who want to comment on this negatively, don't waste
your time. I posted this for entertainment and for people to
consider other sources of information. It's not offered as proof
of anything. With more photos of thecity though, some of Joe's
1984 session may turn out to be accurate.

Does anybody think that, if Joe IS accurate, these gargantuan
people that might have come to Earth, might be the giants that
the Bible refers to? Just a thought.

By the way, I know I wasn't 100% accurate in describing what Joe
wrote in the book. Only by reading the entire session can you see
exactly what Joe saw.

Oh yeah, I'm trying to get Joe booked on Art Bell again so he can
tell everybody about this session. Any mail to Art requesting Joe
as a guest would be appreciated.

Tell Art about this session. I already told Jeff Rense.

Jeff knows how good Joe is and will have him back on his show in
the near future. Now if only Art will get a real RVr on his show.
All he has had recently has been Ed Dames and his killer plant
pathogen from outer space!

Joe in Tampa







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   Apr > Apr 18

                            Alfred's Odd Ode #240

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 06:15:23 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 07:34:10 -0400
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #240

Apology to MW #240 (For April 18, 1998)

We're at Mother Nature's mercy; we only think we have a clue.
Some humans strut and preen like they wear crowns. They're at
_rest_ and rape the planet for their squalid little comforts.
We're the local spacetime's version of unfunny, tragic clowns.

Ever wonder why there's homeless -- or why we empty institutions
of the crazy onto streets to sit and grin? We see them on the
news, forlorn, the focus of our pity -- scorn, but still they
happen, hapless, without end.
We could rescue them you see; we could help them off their knees,
but they serve a useful purpose, unbelieved. I'll tell you why
they're there, and it's then you should beware, and perhaps allow
their, well earned, late relief.

They're there as object lessons; they're on display for you and
me.
They're what happens when you cannot toe the line. They're what
happens when you question institutions for your rights, or object
to regulations out of line. They are there to keep you thinking
on the dictates of the 'man' -- they are there to hide the lights
in troubled skies. They are there to keep you focused from a
crooked profit margin. They are there providing credence for
=E9litist, scabrous lies. They are there to cover UFO's for fear
you'd be like them. Those that sharpen the derision? They are
PREGNANT with their sin! They're to keep us on the party line,
and they keep us from our friends. They preclude their just
salvation, they're to keep things as they've been.

It has never been the real world that you see on your TV. The
safety of your home is an illusion. It's what you _think_
observed. It is THAT, that has occurred.  Don't shoot ME down,
that's Heisenburg's conclusion.
The universe can cough, and then you're scattered on the winds.
Ask the folks in Alabama if that's true. It is these that have
their faith served up, forget relief, its all corrupt, when fates
decide to beat you black and blue.

"The Martian Face is punched . . . ," say the bunkies, out to
lunch, and they stamp their feet, and dance about with glee.
Imagine their relief, those that swallow NASA's brief, they have
put off their comeuppance, they so shallowly believe. They can go
back to futility, call abductees useless kooks -- they can salve
their monstrous egos, and pretend to own the truth. They can
build their crummy castles, and pretend they have a clue. They
continue down a road that's very _bad_ for me and you.

"The Mars face is a rock pile"! And belief is reinforced! The
belief that they're *alone* returns to view. They, no longer, are
compelled to find it's them that pays a freight, consigned.
They'll discover what the open minded knew.

I can't believe the NASA as their interests are conflicted, and
the data is in fragments -- and it was as _they_ predicted! The
government is lying  . . . can't believe a thing they say; their
interests mirror shadows! I want the truth, Jose!!

As the girl said in "Titanic" while the vessel slid from view,
"I'd really rather _be_ a whore than spend my life with you." My
sentiment exactly, as the rich man showed his colors and
compelled a stunning disrespect from the ones that he had
suffer.

We're at mother nature's mercy; we're a parasitic bug. You can
blame the ones that lead us as the smarmyest of thugs. They're
the ones that keep us shaded (you'd raise some hell you only
knew) from where their secrets have been buried in their
disrespect for you!

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

Every word I read that expresses an unbridled, and smirking glee
at the NASA produced, (massaged, spun, and otherwise filtered)
"conclusive proof" of a discredited Cydonia is actually an
argument to stop looking for ANYTHING, altogether! In a rush to
discredit an honest search for physical evidence of an ET society
and culture, these intellectual and spiritual COWARDS forget the
conservative implications of the Drake equation, and buy _in_ to
the arrogant, and I think moronic false assertion that ET's are
not HERE, because WE (ha!) don't know how to get THERE!!! This is
an _obscene_ hubris, and it's ultimate price will be dear as our
population ignorantly increases, _decreasing_ the respect any one
individual _has_ to be shown.

Just one hundred years on this planet has seen the difference
between a rough, primitive agrarianism, and MAGIC! A similar
pontificating establishment of perpetual institutional elite, one
hundred years ago, wanted to "close the patent office," because
everything that could have been invented _had_ been invented. .
.

That hot breath you feel on your neck is alien, Diz, patiently
waiting for you to wake up, turn around (raise eyes from which
you've raked the scales), and SEE!

Restore John Ford!

--
Explore the Alien View?

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake.







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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 18

                  Re: Lee Shargel rears his ugly head again

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 06:58:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 06:58:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Lee Shargel rears his ugly head again

From: "A. J. Gevaerd" <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
Subject: Lee Shargel rears his ugly head again
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:06:52 -0300


>Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 07:14:56 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>Subject: Lee Shargel rears his ugly head again

>I received this very strange message in my e-mails this
>morning and thought I should forward it for your
>edification.  BTW, pharmacokinetics?????

>Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:44:26 EDT
>To: noah@webex.net
>Cc: Bob Shell <76750.2717@CompuServe.com>
>Subject: Leon Shargel

>In searching the net for news on my friend, Leon Shargel, I found
>your posted messages regarding Lee/Leon Shargel Research.

>It appears that you are confusing Leon D. Shargel PhD with some
>strange science fiction writer of the same name.

<snip>

>For your information, there is also an attorney in NYC by the
>name of Leon Shargel.  I have serious doubts that he is your man
>either.

>Thank you,

>Alice C. Engelbrecht
>alix21@aol.com


Folks!

Lee Shargel was first exposed as a hoaxer after his lecture on
the 1997 International UFO Convention, Laughlin, Nevada (January
18-25). He spoke of so many improbable and impossible things
during his lecture that lots of the people in the audience went
to talk to Bob Brown and complained.

Bob was so concerned that the credibility of the Convention could
have been ruined that he called all the directors of the
International UFO Convention to attend an urgent meeting late
that night of January 24. I took part in it as director for South
America. We decided to invite Shargel for a private meeting two
days later and there he was.

During those two days we performed an extensive check on his
alleged credentials. We found absolutely no record of his PhD at
the university from which he allegedly got it. We couldn't locate
any office at JPL that could confirm his association with that
lab and so on. We called several institutions where Shargel said
he had studied or worked. No confirmation of his 'credentials'
was found.

Some people at the directors meeting also believed that Shargel
was someone from 20/20 TV show infiltrating the Convention in
order to gain confidence of its organizers and speakers and later
debunk or defame them and the whole UFO Community. Someone
recalled seeing him on that show, but it wasn't confirmed.

I just wanted to share that with you. I still don't know who
Shargel is and why he insists on giving us false information on
his background. But I certainly know that there are a lot of
people like him in the UFO community, in the USA, Brazil and
everywhere...

Thanks for reading.

A. J. Gevaerd, editor
Revista UFO Magazine
gevaerd@ufo.com.br

In the attached picture, Lee Shargel at the meeting saying "No, I
don't want you to film this meeting".










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   Apr > Apr 18

                         Claims of Erosion - Phooey

From: SKvs <bradford@globalserve.net> [Sue Kovios]
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 08:31:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 08:48:41 -0400
Subject: Claims of Erosion - Phooey

To List,

It has taken thousands of years to cause erosion of the Pyramids
and Sphinx.  There have been craters and mounds on the Moon that
have probably been there for thousands of years.  The Mars
Pathfinder sent images of rocks that have probably been there for
thousands of years.

So how come the face has eroded in just 20+ years?

Sue Kovios







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               Re: 'Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 07:01:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 08:51:50 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel

> From: Kal K. Korff <totlresrch@aol.com>
> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:17:58 EDT
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: 'Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel

> >From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia]
> >Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:28:47 EDT
> >To: updates@globalserve.net, UASR@MyList.net
> >Subject: DiPietro Throws in the Towel?

> Joe Murgia wrote:

> <snip>

> >This is just another misleading post. Just as Kal Korff posted
> >incorrectly that Mark Carlotto was prepared to declare The Face a
> >natural object, this post is also incorrect by claiming DiPietro
> >"has thrown in the towel" and "waved the white flag".

> Dear Joe:

> I don't intend on getting into a long debate over this with you,
> or anyone else... especially since you said you had a nightmare
> about me, :-) -- but let's get something straight here.

<snipped smirkage)

> Hoagland is Hoagland, like Dilettoso is Dilettoso -- need I say
> more??

> Kal Korff

Yes sir! You have plenty more to say beyond the usual character
assassination, research by proclamation, and false premise. Your
parallel drawn between Dilettoso, and Hoagland is specious and
insulting; and I remind you that YOU have been involved in
similar ethical peccadilloes -- the pot DOOMED to call the kettle
black!

Moreover, what have YOU done to convince the reader of your _own_
efficacy before you comment on the content or the substance of
another!

Like Mr. Shell -- I fear you're just another grasping pundit
trying to grind your pieces of silver from our fear, wonder, and
contrived confusion.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

. . .I only surmise the Judas reference. . .but it's a _strong_
suspicion.

--
Explore the Alien View?

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake.









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   Apr > Apr 18

              JPL Hiding Colour, Clear Face & Cydonia Pictures?

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:45:45 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:45:45 -0400
Subject: JPL Hiding Colour, Clear Face & Cydonia Pictures?





Art Bell's Friday Night/Saturday Morning show, at the start of the
2nd hour, has an interview with a man named 'Kent'. He claims to
have been an employee of JPL until the beginning of this past
week.

One of 'Kent's' duties was to arrange for the couriering of
material via FedEx. On Tuesday morning of this past week he was
given a loosely rolled bundle sandwiched between blank sheets of
cardboard. Since there were no cardboard tubes left in storage
the area storage area in which to package the roll. He called
FedEx and arranged for immediate delivery of some more tubes.
While awaiting their arrival he took an early break in the
'break-room', where he was joined by a fellow 'lower-level'
employee.

The loosely rolled package was bumped by 'Kent's' colleague, it
rolled onto the floor and dislodged a colour photograph of...
'The Face' - clear, sharp and taken from almost directly
overhead. There were 8 other photographs, including 'buildings'
viewed from overhead and all dated April 5, 1998.

'Kent' was caught looking at the pictures and fired shortly
thereafter.

The story, of course, is intriguing, well-told and _sounds_
believable. Presumably, someone out there is poring over a
keyboard transcribing the interview, which lasts about twenty
minutes and for the RealAudio impaired will be posted as soon
as I get a copy.

ebk





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             Remote viewing of Cydonia [was CNN's John Holliman]

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:05:41 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:49:00 -0400
Subject: Remote viewing of Cydonia [was CNN's John Holliman]

> From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia]
> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 00:59:28 EDT
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia

> Another piece of this Cydonia puzzle comes from a remote viewing
> session on Cydonia done by Joe McMoneagle. If anybody doesn't
> think remote viewing can gather accurate data, you haven't done
> your research.

So far I have yet to see a single "RV'r" do a double-blind
session on what is in the next room. Courtney Brown has
explicitly refused to perform such a test.

The Hale-Bopp fiasco hardly inspires any confidence.

> Joe McMoneagle is one of the best remote viewers in the world.
> Joe did a RV session on Cydonia in 1984 while he was at the
> Monroe Institute working on improving RV with Robert Monroe.
> Among the sessions they had Joe work were The St. Louis Arch &
> Devil's Tower and Pompeii. They slipped the Cydonia & surrounding
> area session in on Joe in the middle of all the other normal
> targets.

> As with every good RV session, Joe (The viewer) was kept totally
> blind to what the target was. He was just told to describe what
> he "saw".

It's easy to be "tested" with something where no one can refute
your "findings" because no data exists. So who cares if he is
"blind" to the target?

> His first impression was of pyramids. He picked up that the
> "megalithic" pyramids were built for shelters from some sort of
> major geological trauma. Also, he picked up that there were
> obelisks. He also kept saying that everything was big & very
> huge, including the "people".
> More on them later.

(much unprovable material snipped)

> For those who want to comment on this negatively, don't waste
> your time. I posted this for entertainment and for people to
> consider other sources of information. It's not offered as proof
> of anything. With more photos of thecity though, some of Joe's
> 1984 session may turn out to be accurate.

And if they don't?

Listen, any fiction writer can close his eyes and use his
imagination. There isn't any magic to it.

The problem lies in someone claiming that the contents of their
imagination are worth scientific attention.

Let's send the RVrs back to their lairs and use the real, actual,
remotely acquired scientific data we're getting from MGS to
determine the truth about Cydonia. Then, that settled, let's get
back to doing some real scientific work on UFOs.

Remember those? Thousands of unexplained accounts. Hundreds of
radar visual sightings, tens or hundreds of ground trace and
medical cases?

Unfortunately, too many people are addicted to the idea that
there is some cheap and easy way to solve this problem.

"The government will tells us."
"The remote viewers will tell us."
"The channelers will tell us."
"The contactees will tell us."
"The abductees will tell us."
"The Ashtar Command will tell us."

What will tell us is our own work, using our minds, reason, and
the scientific method. Anything else is a cheat, and will get us
nothing but fooled.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront/
------






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   Apr > Apr 18

             Ufological Squabbles [was: CNN's John Holliman...]

From: Randi Bailey <rbb2676@mailer.fsu.edu>
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:49:38 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 14:32:47 -0400
Subject: Ufological Squabbles [was: CNN's John Holliman...]


> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 06:11:12 -0500
> From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia

> > That's OK, Steve.  The more I deal with some of the idiots in
> > this field, the more I am liking ol' Kal.  The 'true believers'
> > may make a skeptic out of me yet.

> > Bob [Shell]

> I submit, sir, that you are not in a position to make a competent
> assessment on the efficacy of idiots _or_ true believers. You'll
> have to lose about nine tenths of your smirking,
> self-righteousness for that.

As a relatively new, but appreciative "lurker", I wanted to say
how disheartening it is to hear the gifted/brilliant ufologists
squabbling. In my own search for the "truth", I need to hear all
angles, including the perspective of wonder (Alfred) and the
perspective of science (Bob).  Often in our history, wonder has
evolved into science, and conversely, science into wonder. It is
not my concern which path each researcher or believer favors. I
want to hear all the views, as long as they are well-considered,
and not purposeful hoaxes.

I would be equally disappointed to lose access to Alfred's Odes
as well as Bob Shell's tireless rationalism.  I don't know
everyone's long history, being somewhat new, at least
electronically, to the field. However, I did want to point out
that Bob must have some capacity for belief, and is probably not
into the smirkfest that he is being accused of, because he has
put so much time and energy into keeping this list balanced.

Thanks to everyone who is sincere, and raspberries only to those
who get a thrill out of toying with others.

rbb






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                  Re: Ufological Squabbles [Was: CNN's John

From: "Steven Kaeser" <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 13:46:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 14:33:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Ufological Squabbles [Was: CNN's John


From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
To: updates@globalserve.net <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Saturday, April 18, 1998 7:42 AM
Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia


>Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 06:11:12 -0500
>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia


<text snipped, but following comment is in response to Bob
 Shell's reply>

>I submit, sir, that you are not in a position to make a competent
>assessment on the efficacy of idiots _or_ true believers. You'll
>have to lose about nine tenths of your smirking,
>self-righteousness for that.

Are you indicating that he isn't in a position to have an
opinion, or not in a position to share it?  While some may not
approve of the manner in which it has been carried out, I would
submit that he has accomplished both.

>Perhaps you should begin by questioning the colossal relief I
>perceive you are feeling in light of the current *evidence*
>(every word you write fair drips with it) regarding a discredited
>Cydonia.

Actually, I think that Bob stated that he would rather have seen
something artificial, but perhaps you believe that he's merely
trying to "throw us off the scent".

>". . .don't know who their dealing with," indeed. They are
>dealing with a growing population of people that are leery of a
>government that is not forthcoming. They are dealing with people
>becoming tired of the actions of shadowy control bodies with
>hidden agendas. They are dealing with people becoming tired of
>smirking elitism from grasping clueless pundits of the most
>exciting occurrences of our times! They are certainly not dealing
>with _you_, sir -- of that I can be certain.

>Lehmberg@snowhill.com

If by "They", you're referring to the "True Believers" that Bob
mentioned, you are probably correct.  But I'll have to admit that
I'm a bit confused over this reference.

(I was going to say a few other things here, but decided against promoting
my "elitist agenda". . .<g>)

==================

Has anyone else noticed that the conversation has drifted away
from the issue of what the images show, to a question of the
personalities making the comments.  In other words, if one
doesn't like the message, make sure you shoot the messenger.

This particular thread started on a fairly positive note for
those who support the contention that the objects are
"artificial".  CNN's John Holliman has gotten a commitment from
NASA that they'll continue to image this area until the matter is
settled (I sure how they're in for the long haul).

People on both sides of this issue have probably jumped the gun
with their instant analysis of the images, but it's clear that
there are no "obvious" anomolies that would prove to the world
that there are artificial structures on Mars.

We are seeing what is classicly known as "rhetoric" on this
issue, where each side uses the evidence at hand to promote their
own agenda.

Steve







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                          Martian building blocks?

From: Bryan Butcher <being@concentric.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:25:11 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 14:22:13 -0400
Subject: Martian building blocks?

Hello List,

I would like feedback on what appears to be ancient building
ruins located south of the Cydonia "city square."  The right
angle distinction and repetive incidence of form is startling to
say the least.

Those of you who are open to the possibility of ancient
structures in the Cydonia region will be astonished and pleased
with the new find. Those of you in the skeptic camp, which is
necessary in this investigation, will need to debate this find
with objectivity and clarity.  To dismiss the features as merely
naturally occurring formations will require finding other such
features on Earth, or even Mars, which corroborate your views.
Many incidences of ancient ruins on Earth have been photographed
from the air which show similar patterns such as this recent
discovery in Cydonia.

Please visit:

http://www.mufor.org/ares/mgs/structure-comp.jpg

The structures shown at the bottom of the image, the one with the
big "?" are 88' x 400' in size.

Please provide feedback...could this formation occur naturally,
or could this be ancient Martian building ruins?

Also visit http://www.mufor.org/mars.html for more image
enhancements by the Near Pathfinder Anomaly Analysis Group.

cheers,
Bryan Butcher
--
___________________________
connections - - - - ICQ# 4823764
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dreamsenses: The Home of Being! - http://www.raccoon.com/~bryan
The Des Moines Astronomical Society - http://www.sciowa.org/~dmas
The Near Pathfinder Anomaly Analysis Group - http://www.mufor.org/ares
UFO Forum - http://forums.msn.com/UFO
___________________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^






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                          Re: Ufological Squabbles

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 13:50:17 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 15:40:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Ufological Squabbles

> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:49:38 -0500
> From: Randi Bailey <rbb2676@mailer.fsu.edu>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia

> > Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 06:11:12 -0500
> > From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia

> > > That's OK, Steve.  The more I deal with some of the idiots in
> > > this field, the more I am liking ol' Kal.  The 'true believers'
> > > may make a skeptic out of me yet.

> > > Bob [Shell]

> > I submit, sir, that you are not in a position to make a competent
> > assessment on the efficacy of idiots _or_ true believers. You'll
> > have to lose about nine tenths of your smirking,
> > self-righteousness for that.

> As a relatively new, but appreciative "lurker", I wanted to say
> how disheartening it is to hear the gifted/brilliant ufologists
> squabbling. In my own search for the "truth", I need to hear all
> angles, including the perspective of wonder (Alfred) and the
> perspective of science (Bob).  Often in our history, wonder has
> evolved into science, and conversely, science into wonder. It is
> not my concern which path each researcher or believer favors. I
> want to hear all the views, as long as they are well-considered,
> and not purposeful hoaxes.

Here, here!

> I would be equally disappointed to lose access to Alfred's Odes
> as well as Bob Shell's tireless rationalism.  I don't know
> everyone's long history, being somewhat new, at least
> electronically, to the field. However, I did want to point out
> that Bob must have some capacity for belief, and is probably not
> into the smirkfest that he is being accused of, because he has
> put so much time and energy into keeping this list balanced.

There, there.

> Thanks to everyone who is sincere, and raspberries only to those
> who get a thrill out of toying with others.

Where, where? <g>!

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

--
Explore the Alien View?

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake.







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                        Re: Remote viewing of Cydonia

From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia]
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 14:50:17 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 15:38:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Remote viewing of Cydonia

> From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:05:41 -0400
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Remote viewing of Cydonia (was CNN)
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

 >> From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia]
 >> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 00:59:28 EDT
 >> To: updates@globalserve.net
 >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia

 >> Another piece of this Cydonia puzzle comes from a rving
 >> session on Cydonia done by Joe McMoneagle. If anybody doesn't
 >> think remote viewing can gather accurate data, you haven't done
 >> your research.

 >So far I have yet to see a single "RV'r" do a double-blind
 >session on what is in the next room. Courtney Brown has
 >explicitly refused to perform such a test.

 >The Hale-Bopp fiasco hardly inspires any confidence.

First off, don't mention Courtney Brown and RV in the same
sentence. The same goes for Ed Dames.

I shouldn't have said that Joe's session was another piece of the
puzzle. I should have said merely that it was about Cydonia and
what he perceived. By the way, if you haven't seen a single RVr
do a double-blind session on what is in the next room, you
obviously haven't done your research. Until you do, I would
suggest you don't make comments about somehing you don't know
about.

> It's easy to be "tested" with something where no one can refute
> your "findings" because no data exists. So who cares if he is
 >"blind" to the target?

Agreed. I made it clear in my post that the session was proof of
NOTHING. Nobody was being tested. Where in my post did I write
that he was being tested? I also said in the post that Joe M., in
his book said it was proof of NOTHING. I posted it for
entertainment and for others to just consider the possibility
that Joe's session was accurate. Would you even consider this?
Not as proof but as a mind opening excercise.

Also, I don't believe the Cydonia session was double blind. I
believe the monitors knew what the target was. People could argue
that they were leading him but if you read the entire transcript,
you will see that was not the case. Could Joe have been picking
up telepathic thoughts or expectations of the monitors?
Definitely! That's always a possiblity. Could his session have
been totally off? Yes.

Also, remember, Joe was "tested" on real world targets like
Devil's Tower and St. Louis Arch which he nailed WITHOUT the
monitor leading him. Maybe Joe picked up their telepathic
thoughts, I don't know. But the Cydonia session was sandwiched in
between these normal sessions. Still, just because he was right
on the real world targets, doesn't mean he was right on Cydonia.
Is this clear enough? E-N-T-E-R-T-A-I-N-M-E-N-T

Remember ENTERTAINMENT! Not proof. Just consider it.
That's all.

 >> For those who want to comment on this negatively, don't waste
 >> your time. I posted this for entertainment and for people to
 >> consider other sources of information. It's not offered as proof
 >> of anything. With more photos of thecity though, some of Joe's
 >> 1984 session may turn out to be accurate.

 >And if they don't?

You must not read entire posts. If the session turns out to be
wrong and there's nothing artificial on Cydonia, then OH WELL. RV
is far from perfect, especially when you RV a target without any
feedback to tell you if you're right or not. There is no way to
tell until we get better photos. Didn't I say that already?

>Listen, any fiction writer can close his eyes and use his
 >imagination. There isn't any magic to it.

 >The problem lies in someone claiming that the contents of their
 >imagination are worth scientific attention.

Once again, Joe never made that claim. Did you really read the
entire post? Joe would never do that but you know nothing
about him so how would you know?

 >Let's send the RVrs back to their lairs and use the real, actual,
 >remotely acquired scientific data we're getting from MGS to
 >determine the truth about Cydonia. Then, that settled, let's get
 >back to doing some real scientific work on UFOs.

Agreed again. Except for the lairs part. Send Dames & Brown
wherever you want. They represent a tiny protion of people
in the RV world.

Remember the word entertainment that I wrote?

Does everything on this list have to be nuts and bolts. I thought
people might enjoy a break from all the bickering that's been
going on so I posted it. Is that a crime? Did I make or infer any
claims? If I did than I apologize. Did anybody else enjoy this
post? If not, then I won't do anything like that in the future. I
just get bored sometimes reading all those wordy scientific
posts.

 >Remember those? Thousands of unexplained accounts. Hundreds of
 >radar visual sightings, tens or hundreds of ground trace and
 >medical cases?

Now you sound like me when I talk to my skeptic friends, family
and co-workers.

 >Unfortunately, too many people are addicted to the idea that
 >there is some cheap and easy way to solve this problem.

Don't know any of those people. Do you?


An Amazed & Disappointed Joe in Tampa






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                        Re: Remote viewing of Cydonia

From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 10:59:26 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 14:51:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Remote viewing of Cydonia

> From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:05:41 -0400
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Remote viewing of Cydonia (was CNN)
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> > From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia]
> > Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 00:59:28 EDT
> > To: updates@globalserve.net
> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia

> > Another piece of this Cydonia puzzle comes from a remote viewing
> > session on Cydonia done by Joe McMoneagle. If anybody doesn't
> > think remote viewing can gather accurate data, you haven't done
> > your research.

> So far I have yet to see a single "RV'r" do a double-blind
> session on what is in the next room. Courtney Brown has
> explicitly refused to perform such a test.

In the very early days of remote viewing testing at SRI, Ingo
Swann did perform tests of targets located in the next room.
But, as he pointed out, if you want to know what's in the next
room, or in a sealed box in the laboratory, you can just go over
and look.  He suggested that long distance targets be selected
and the rest is psi-testing history.

Anyone who doubts the validity of remote viewing, MUST read Dean
Radin's book "The Conscious Universe," which provides a history
of psi testing, detailing all the peer-review comments and how
the testing methodology has been improved over the years.  Psi
continues to hold up in the lab, to the degree that even the
psi-friendly <sarcasm> folks at CSICOP can't find fault with it
and have publically acknowledged this.

> The Hale-Bopp fiasco hardly inspires any confidence.

No, but I wouldn't place these sessions on a par with those
performed under proper procedures.  This is kind of like using
your local Little League team as representative of what baseball
players are capable of.  Little League players that don't play by
the rules...;-)

> It's easy to be "tested" with something where no one can refute
> your "findings" because no data exists. So who cares if he is
> "blind" to the target?

You're absolutally right and Joe McMoneagle's response to
situations like you describe has been that unless/until there's
"feedback" and confirmation, those kind of sessions remain pure
sci-fi.  (Therefore, why do them.)

> Listen, any fiction writer can close his eyes and use his
> imagination. There isn't any magic to it.

> The problem lies in someone claiming that the contents of their
> imagination are worth scientific attention.

When the scientifically validated truth is that Joe can create
blueprint quality sketches of objects/activities thousands of
miles from his location, it IS certainly worthy of attention.
(You might have to alter your fundamentalist notions of psychics
and the human psyche, however, and that seems to be the problem
for many people.)

> Unfortunately, too many people are addicted to the idea that
> there is some cheap and easy way to solve this problem.

> "The government will tells us."
> "The remote viewers will tell us."
> "The channelers will tell us."
> "The contactees will tell us."
> "The abductees will tell us."
> "The Ashtar Command will tell us."

I agree with your comment, with the exception of the experiences
of those who actually have had contact.  They/we DO have valuable
information on the subject.  Not the whole story, but at least we
are eyewitnesses.   But fear of having to alter fundamenalist
notions again seems to get in the way of truly
scientific/objective processing of this information.

It's very easy to categorically discount the stories of psi and
ET contact, but you do so at your intellectual detriment.

--

Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
ICQ Pager 6797092






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   Apr > Apr 18

                Re: Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel

From: "Philippe Piet van Putten" <abp1@uol.com.br>
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 14:06:00 -0300
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 17:45:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel


>From: Kal K. Korff <totlresrch@aol.com>
>Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:17:58 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: 'Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel

>>From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia]
>>Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:28:47 EDT
>>To: updates@globalserve.net, UASR@MyList.net
>>Subject: DiPietro Throws in the Towel?


OK guys...!

I'm trying to check this out. I have tried to phone call DiPietro
but no one answers. Maybe his number changed.

Do you know if he has an e-mail address ?

Thanks.

Your colleague and friend,

Philippe Piet van Putten
The Brazilian Academy of Parasciences (ABP)
abp1@uol.com.br










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   Apr > Apr 19

                Re: On Cydonia [was: CNN's John Holliman...]

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 06:47:34 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 08:52:54 -0400
Subject: Re: On Cydonia [was: CNN's John Holliman...]

> From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Re:  Cydonia..

> I submit, sir, that you are not in a position to make a competent
> assessment on the efficacy of idiots -or- true believers. You'll
> have to lose about nine tenths of your smirking,
> self-righteousness for that.

> Perhaps you should begin by questioning the colossal relief I
> perceive you are feeling in light of the current *evidence*
> (every word you write fair drips with it) regarding a discredited
> Cydonia.
>
> ". . .don't know who their dealing with," indeed. They are
> dealing with a growing population of people that are leery of a
> government that is not forthcoming. They are dealing with people
> becoming tired of the actions of shadowy control bodies with
> hidden agendas. They are dealing with people becoming tired of
> smirking elitism from grasping clueless pundits of the most
> exciting occurrences of our times! They are certainly not dealing
> with _you_, sir -- of that I can be certain.

> Lehmberg@snowhill.com

Dear Mr. Lehmberg:

With my untrained eyes, I cannot find a single sign of ANYTHING
artificial in the images yet presented. This is a disappointment
to me, but not a surprise.

What IS a surprise, is the tenacious way the 'face people'  have
grasped at every straw to salvage something from what appears to
be a complete refutation of their beliefs. (Please forgive the
'face people' moniker, and suggest a better name. As an ex-
Catholic, I am very tempted to make one up myself.)

I would like nothing better than to find some clear and obvious signs of artific
iality on Mars, or anyplace else where humans could not have possibly been the c
ause.

Frankly, Bob Shell makes perfect sense to me .. and he is a lot
easier on the eyeballs than Kal Korff, who tends to rant a lot.

I don't know Bob personally, but suspect that he also has an
interest in possible signs of alien intelligent life.. why is he
on this list otherwise?

You quote Giordano Bruno at the bottom of your messages as usual.
It is my unfounded hunch that Bruno, were he alive today would
say something like "Well, Cydonia is a bust. Lets look over here
.. and then maybe over there to the southwest.. "
Best  wishes

-  Larry Hatch


"  I click on the keyboard, and soar to the factual data.    What
others see from Yellow Falls,TX  I have fully documented".

-  Some ex-catholic burning the midnight oil.







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                       Re: Claims of Erosion - Phooey

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 17:59:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 11:48:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Claims of Erosion - Phooey

>Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 08:31:03 -0400
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>From: SKvs <bradford@globalserve.net> [Sue Kovios]
>Subject: Claims of Erosion - Phooey

>To List,

>It has taken thousands of years to cause erosion of the Pyramids
>and Sphinx.  There have been craters and mounds on the Moon that
>have probably been there for thousands of years.  The Mars
>Pathfinder sent images of rocks that have probably been there for
>thousands of years.

>So how come the face has eroded in just 20+ years?

>Sue Kovios


No mystery here, Sue.  It hasn't.

Bob








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   Apr > Apr 19

                 Re: JPL Hiding Colour, Clear Face & Cydonia

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 17:59:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 12:07:28 -0400
Subject: Re: JPL Hiding Colour, Clear Face & Cydonia

>Art Bell's Friday Night/Saturday Morning show, at the start of the
>2nd hour, has an interview with a man named 'Kent'. He claims to
>have been an employee of JPL until the beginning of this past
>week.

>One of 'Kent's' duties was to arrange for the couriering of
>material via FedEx. On Tuesday morning of this past week he was
>given a loosely rolled bundle sandwiched between blank sheets of
>cardboard. Since there were no cardboard tubes left in storage
>the area storage area in which to package the roll. He called
>FedEx and arranged for immediate delivery of some more tubes.
>While awaiting their arrival he took an early break in the
>'break-room', where he was joined by a fellow 'lower-level'
>employee.

>The loosely rolled package was bumped by 'Kent's' colleague, it
>rolled onto the floor and dislodged a colour photograph of...
>'The Face' - clear, sharp and taken from almost directly
>overhead. There were 8 other photographs, including 'buildings'
>viewed from overhead and all dated April 5, 1998.

>'Kent' was caught looking at the pictures and fired shortly
>thereafter.

>The story, of course, is intriguing, well-told and _sounds_
>believable. Presumably, someone out there is poring over a
>keyboard transcribing the interview, which lasts about twenty
>minutes and for the RealAudio impaired will be posted as soon
>as I get a copy.

>ebk


Errol,

Why does this story sound believable??  To me it sounds ridiculous.

These are digital images.  If you want to send them somewhere you
modem them, or put them on a disk and Fedex the disk.

[Bob, you and I both know that the bureaucracies, for the most
 part, are not set up to look at digital images. Damn, they have
 enough difficulty setting the clocks on their VCRs and sending
 faxes. The people looking at 'those' pictures would want
 hard-copy. They don't have time to go through learning curves
 and if these images _are_ the genuine article, wouldn't want
 some TI drone looking at them either. Hence the possibility
 that JPL, with their, what must, be even to you, absolutely
 breathtaking facilities, are indeed printing pictures and
 using FedEx to ship them - the "needle in a haystack
 principal" (to quote Bell) justifies using public couriers.]

Believable???

["_Sounds_ believable"..... Time will tell. And hey, I'm merely
 the messenger. Did you listen to the .ra file? --ebk]

Bob








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                 Re: JPL Hiding Colour, Clear Face & Cydonia

From: SKvs <bradford@globalserve.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 20:11:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 12:12:22 -0400
Subject: Re: JPL Hiding Colour, Clear Face & Cydonia

At 12:45 PM 18/04/98 -0400, you wrote:

>The loosely rolled package was bumped by 'Kent's' colleague, it
>rolled onto the floor and dislodged a colour photograph of...
>'The Face' - clear, sharp and taken from almost directly
>overhead. There were 8 other photographs, including 'buildings'
>viewed from overhead and all dated April 5, 1998.

>ebk

I believe the date of the photographs was April 2, 1998.

I also find it interesting how alot of the guys interviewed on
Art Bell regarding conspiracies all sound alike.

Sue Kovios

"Truth is a shining goddess, always veiled, always distant, never
wholly approachable, but worthy of all the devotion of which the
human spirit is capable." -Bertrand Russell







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                          Re: Ufological Squabbles

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 17:59:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 12:10:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Ufological Squabbles

>Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:49:38 -0500
>From: Randi Bailey <rbb2676@mailer.fsu.edu>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia

>As a relatively new, but appreciative "lurker", I wanted to say
>how disheartening it is to hear the gifted/brilliant ufologists
>squabbling. In my own search for the "truth", I need to hear all
>angles, including the perspective of wonder (Alfred) and the
>perspective of science (Bob).  Often in our history, wonder has
>evolved into science, and conversely, science into wonder. It is
>not my concern which path each researcher or believer favors. I
>want to hear all the views, as long as they are well-considered,
>and not purposeful hoaxes.

>I would be equally disappointed to lose access to Alfred's Odes
>as well as Bob Shell's tireless rationalism.  I don't know
>everyone's long history, being somewhat new, at least
>electronically, to the field. However, I did want to point out
>that Bob must have some capacity for belief, and is probably not
>into the smirkfest that he is being accused of, because he has
>put so much time and energy into keeping this list balanced.

>Thanks to everyone who is sincere, and raspberries only to those
>who get a thrill out of toying with others.

>rbb

Why thank you, Randi.

Now you gotta buy me all new hats, since my size just went up
a couple numbers when I read this.

Yes, I do have a capacity to believe.  Particularly in UFOs,
since I've seen one in circumstances which did not permit
misidentification of some ordinary thing.

I know that something real, and real weird, is going on.  But
only a tiny fraction of what is reported, in my opinion, reflects
anything real.

Bob








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   Apr > Apr 19

               Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

From: Theresa <Tcarlson1@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 18:44:23 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 20:41:15 -0400
Subject: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs


>Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 22:25:21 -0400
>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


Hi Bruce,

> One has to allow for the
>distinct **possibility** that the cameraman would make the
>logical assumption to the UO would continue to move to the right
>at the same altitude since it moved steadily to the right before
>it disappeared.

Even at the beginning of the sighting the cameraman seems to know
the direction the object was going to move.  And where it was
going to come out above the building as well.
Also logical assumptions?


> Apparently the cameraman did not notice... which
>is not surprising... that the angular size of the UO was
>shrinking just before it disappeared... suggesting that it was
>moving away from the camera.... where it could be lost in the
>haze..

Isn't the witness testimony that the object disappear in thin air
rather than zipped away at high speed?

You seem to be convinced that this video is the real thing.  What
do you plan to do with this remarkable evidence?

Regards,

   Theresa Carlson


http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tcarlson1







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   Apr > Apr 19

                 Re: JPL Hiding Colour, Clear Face & Cydonia

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 14:58:35 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 20:39:53 -0400
Subject: Re: JPL Hiding Colour, Clear Face & Cydonia

At 12:45 PM 4/18/98 -0400, ebk wrote:


>The story, of course, is intriguing, well-told and _sounds_
>believable. Presumably, someone out there is poring over a
>keyboard transcribing the interview, which lasts about twenty
>minutes and for the RealAudio impaired will be posted as soon
>as I get a copy.

>ebk

Hello Errol,

This is another issue on which we probably need to wait a little
while before forming firm judgments. It might be that Kent was
merely playing a well rehearsed role in attempting to (further)
impair the credibility of Art Bell.  Those in the secret
government who insist on keeping the coverup in place as firmly
as possible no doubt dislike the fact that Art is against the
coverup and has a rather large radio audience.  In my opinion,
Courtney Brown is a good candidate to have tried this.  So the
motivation is quite strong for such shenanigans to be perpetrated
from time to time.

But if we don't hear anything from Kent or some confirmed
spokesperson for him in the next few weeks, saying that he had
made the whole thing up just to see who would fall for it, it
becomes less and less likely that it is a false representation.
That is because this would not be in the long-range interest of
whoever might have put Kent up to acting out such a convincing
performance, as it just gains converts to the reality of a past
ET presence on Mars, and to a conspiracy within the government
and NASA, if the scam is not exposed fairly quickly.

So if we don't hear otherwise in a month or two or few, Kent's
story is probably true.  In the meanwhile, Art is evidently
hoping to hear from Kent's colleague or anyone else who can
confirm Kent's recent background.

Jim Deardorff







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   Apr > Apr 19

                 Re: eSufo - Cydonia "city" images available

From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca>
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 11:01:04 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 20:48:39 -0400
Subject: Re: eSufo - Cydonia "city" images available


> From: "David Watanabe" <davew@exosci.com>
> Subject: eSufo - Cydonia "city" images available
> To: UFO@exosci.com
> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 02:50:34 -0800

> exoScience UFO * 4/15/98 * exosci.com/ufo
>
> * CYDONIA "CITY" IMAGES FROM MARS GLOBAL SURVEYOR
>
>   - the MGS has now imaged the "City" portion of Cydonia.  The
> images are available on our website.

<snip>

Hi Dave and list,

I've been looking at these images for over a week now and I think this
is a case of apples and oranges. The new mesa doesn't look to me to be
the same as the old mesa, let alone an image match. I can go one way or
the other on this thing but can anyone assure me that the site imaged by
Surveyor is the same site as the Viking picture?

Don Ledger





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   Apr > Apr 19

                          Re: Ufological Squabbles

From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 18:50:43 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 20:42:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Ufological Squabbles

> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:49:38 -0500
> From: Randi Bailey <rbb2676@mailer.fsu.edu>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: CNN's John Holliman on Cydonia

> As a relatively new, but appreciative "lurker", I wanted to say
> how disheartening it is to hear the gifted/brilliant ufologists
> squabbling. In my own search for the "truth", I need to hear all
> angles, including the perspective of wonder (Alfred) and the
> perspective of science (Bob).  Often in our history, wonder has
> evolved into science, and conversely, science into wonder. It is
> not my concern which path each researcher or believer favors. I
> want to hear all the views, as long as they are well-considered,
> and not purposeful hoaxes.

> I would be equally disappointed to lose access to Alfred's Odes
> as well as Bob Shell's tireless rationalism.  I don't know
> everyone's long history, being somewhat new, at least
> electronically, to the field. However, I did want to point out
> that Bob must have some capacity for belief, and is probably not
> into the smirkfest that he is being accused of, because he has
> put so much time and energy into keeping this list balanced.

> Thanks to everyone who is sincere, and raspberries only to those
> who get a thrill out of toying with others.

I trust I'm not alone in saying "bravo!"

Welcome to the list, Randi. We need you.

Greg Sandow






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                Re: Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel

From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@AOL.COM> [Joe Murgia]
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 10:23:47 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 21:03:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel


>From: "Philippe Piet van Putten" <abp1@uol.com.br>
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: 'Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel
>Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 14:06:00 -0300

>OK guys...!

>I'm trying to check this out. I have tried to phone call DiPietro
>but no one answers. Maybe his number changed.

>Do you know if he has an e-mail address ?

>Thanks.

>Your colleague and friend,

>Philippe Piet van Putten
>The Brazilian Academy of Parasciences (ABP)
>abp1@uol.com.br

Good idea Philippe but if you listen to his interview on
The Laura Lee show, you won't come to any other conclusion
other than DiPietro is withholding final judgement until more
photos come in. I almost quoted him word for word. Let
us know what you find out.

Joe in Tampa







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                          BWW Media Alert 19980418

From: BufoCalvin <BufoCalvin@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 01:16:12 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 20:46:43 -0400
Subject: BWW Media Alert 19980418

Bufo Calvin
P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA  94596
Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Website: <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin">http://members.aol.com/bufo
calvin<;/a>
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this
edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that attribution is made
to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with
strangers before you e-mail them something.  If you forward this, please make
sure it is clear that you are forwarding it).

April 18, 1998

RADIO

ART BELL

Here is the upcoming schedule.  The show runs from 10:00 PM to 3:00 AM
weeknights, and 6:00 PM to 9:00 PM for Dreamland on Sunday.  For more
information, see http://www.artbell.com.

Sunday, April 19, 6:00 PM, DREAMLAND: Stephanie Leland, Author: "Peaceful
Kingdom, Random Acts of Kindness by Animals"
Monday, April 20, 10:00 PM,  Wayne Green
Tuesday, April 21, 10:00 PM, Matthew Alper, Author: "The God Part of The
Brain"
Friday, April 24, 10:00 PM,  Ed Dames, Remote Viewing
Sunday, April 26, DREAMLAND, Whitley Strieber, Author:  "Communion" and
"Confirmation"

TELEVISION

A&E

Thursday, April 30, 6:00 PM, UFOS: HAVE WE BEEN VISITED? (Michael Dorn
narrates)
Thursday, April 30, 10:00 PM, UFOS: HAVE WE BEEN VISITED? (Michael Dorn
narrates)


THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL

Sunday, April 19, 1:00 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: GIANTS FOR THE
GODS (Nazca, etc.)
Sunday, April 19, 1:30 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: MYSTERIES FROM
HEAVEN (includes the Shroud of Turin...interesting story in the current
FORTEAN TIMES (http://www.forteantimes.com) debunking the shroud and claiming
it was made by Leonardo DaVinci
Sunday, April 19, 2:30 PM, ANIMAL X: MYSTERIOUS EVENTS (includes thylacine,
cattle mutilations)
Sunday, April 19, 3:00 PM, WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT?: GHOST, ALIENS, AND EMPERORS
(a ghost and a priest, Area 51)
Sunday, April 19, 4:00 PM, WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT?: SPIRITS, ROBBERS, AND THE
DEAD (includes English ghosts)
Sunday, April 19, 5:00 PM, WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT?: CASTLES, TOMBS, AND LEONARDO
(includes haunting)
Thursday, April 30, 9:00 PM, ANIMAL X: GHOSTS AND PHANTOMS (includes black big
cat sightings in Ireland)
Friday, May 1, 1:00 AM, ANIMAL X: GHOSTS AND PHANTOMS (includes black big cat
sightings in Ireland)

THE LEARNING CHANNEL

Tuesday, April 28, 6:00 PM, ALIEN SECRETS: AREA 51
Tuesday, April 28, 9:00 PM, ALIEN SECRETS: AREA 51
Wednesday, April 29, 6:00 PM, WE ARE NOT ALONE: SKYWATCHERS (UFO witnesses)
Wednesday, April 29, 6:00 PM, WE ARE NOT ALONE: ALIEN HUNTERS
Wednesday, April 29, 9:00 PM, WE ARE NOT ALONE?: SKYWATCHERS (UFO witnesses)
Wednesday, April 29, 10:00 PM, WE ARE NOT ALONE: ALIEN HUNTERS
Thursday, April 30, 6:00 PM, ROSWELL
Thursday, April 30, 9:00 PM, ROSWELL
Friday, May 1, 6:00 PM, UFOS AND OTHER CLOSE ENCOUNTERS
Friday, May 1, 7:00 PM, THE CASE OF THE UFOS

THE SCI-FI CHANNEL

Continues to run SIGHTINGS reruns at 5:00 PM and 9:00 PM weekdays.

This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!"

____________________________

You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly
redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by
e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com.  You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to
Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert the same way. Also, please let me know if
there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, t
he week before.
_____________________________

**OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an
Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS
encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions:
however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece
or others presented under my own name.
______________________________

<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/weirdware/books.html">Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Books</
A>
I'm very excited about this!  Some of you know, I ran a bookstore for years, and
 it has always been a love of mine.  I get asked often to recommend
books(I do write reviews for several publications) on these topics, and now I
can do it and actually give you a source for them at the same time!  This is
being done in association with Amazon.com, which has an outstanding
reputation for the five "S"s of internet shopping: selection, searchability,
service, savings, and security.  If there is any specific book you want (or
topic in which you are interested), let me know and I will do the research
and e-mail you a link you can use to check it out more (and order it if you
want).  I will be linking to books within the Media Alert, to make it more
efficient for you.  If you click on the link, you will be sent to that title
on Amazon. You do =not= have to buy it at that point!  You may, but the
option is yours.






   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 20

                 Re: Chat with Stephen Bassett, UFO Lobbyist

From: "Yvonne Hedenland" <vonni_h@email.msn.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 10:47:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 04:36:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Chat with Stephen Bassett, UFO Lobbyist

Disclosure?

What will it take to get the government to share the
truth on the UFO issue? The efforts for disclosure
are currently at an all time high.  And many of the
individuals involved in these efforts are clients of
Stephen Bassett, the nation's only registered UFO
Lobbyist.

Join the UFO Forum on Tuesday, April 21st, at 6pm
Pacific time, to discuss the goals and objectives
behind Bassett's work. This chat is available at
http://forums.msn.com/UFO

The Briefing Room chat can be accessed by any IRC
client. The chat server name is publicchat.msn.com
and the room or channel name is #briefing.

The Netshow Audio interview with Mr. Bassett is now
available on the UFO Forum !








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 20

                Re: Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel

From: JJ Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.net>
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:00:20 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 04:34:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel

>From: "Philippe Piet van Putten" <abp1@uol.com.br>
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: 'Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel
>Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 14:06:00 -0300

>I'm trying to check this out. I have tried to phone call DiPietro
>but no one answers. Maybe his number changed.
>Do you know if he has an e-mail address ?

Hi Philippe,

I think his address is : cydonia@erols.com
His web page is : www.lauralee.com/Dipietro.htm

Regards,

JJ Mercieca
Malta UFO Research
http://www.mufor.org/







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 20

                                Mars "Ruins"?

From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch)
Date: 19 Apr 98 15:04:00 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 04:51:51 -0400
Subject: Mars "Ruins"?

Date: 19 April 98 19:43:00 GMT
From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de <Joachim Koch>
To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Subject: "Ruins" on Mars?

Hallo to all,

Not long ago Mr. Bruce Maccabee made reasonable suggestions here on this list re
 analyzing the "rest" of the "Face" by Mr. DiPietro et al.

So what happened to this  analysis? Were they able to simulate
the same appearance of the "Face" just like in the Viking image
from the new data NASA has released? I think this should be
possible and would clearly show that there is something wrong -
or not.

Has anyone so far applied or tested what (Sorry!) Mr. Hoagland
once reported: fractal geometry analysis to the new data?

Is there anyone alse here who  has the impression of a kind of
"artificial appearance" of the very regular "slope" which is seen
to the left of the "Face" and its nearly rectangular beding on
the top left?


If not a "Face" - then "ruins"?

Joachim Koch



        *Homepage International Roswell Initiative, Germany:*
         > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jkoch1 <
               *Upcoming in May: News from Switzerland*






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   Apr > Apr 20

               New-agey drug-types/conspiracy witnesses [was:

From: "K. Young" <task@fuse.net>
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:07:22 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 04:57:17 -0400
Subject: New-agey drug-types/conspiracy witnesses [was:

>Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 20:11:53 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: SKvs <bradford@globalserve.net> [Sue Kovios]
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: JPL Hiding Colour, Clear Face & Cydonia
>         Pictures?


> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 20:11:53 -0400

> >The loosely rolled package was bumped by 'Kent's' colleague, it
> >rolled onto the floor and dislodged a colour photograph of...
> >'The Face' - clear, sharp and taken from almost directly
> >overhead. There were 8 other photographs, including 'buildings'
> >viewed from overhead and all dated April 5, 1998.

> >ebk


> EBK:

> I believe the date of the photographs was April 2, 1998.

> I also find it interesting how alot of the guys interviewed on
> Art Bell regarding conspiracies all sound alike.

> Sue Kovios

Sue;

Allow me to furnish a brief, unscientific and admittedly biased
'editorial comment' on the 'commonality' you mention.

I have listened to numerous ART BELL programs and hear the 'young
man between 25-40-type' rant on and on about how our culture will
'be ravaged' by the truth while I consider the possibilities that
this person has been warped by some mind-altering drug.

These societal miscreants profess to be 'vampires,' 'UFO
abductees' or 'time travelers,' but I suspect a common chemical
or externally-induced defect among these sorts, a defect that
effects their mind.

Even from their attitude, way of speaking (vocal styles and
inflections which sound like they are 'cult-leader wannabeez'),
comments on society and new-agish tendencies, they exhibit a
general commonality I have noticed. I feel sympathetic for these
deluded mental-cases because they could dealing with or suffering
from a common mental/chemical imbalance.

I have also considered the possibility that this 'commonality' is
due to excessive drug use, and conformity/adherence to societal
expectations of/to the druggie-class.

I have some personal experience dealing with several of these
'druggie- types' from the Cincinnati area who have professed past
encounters with anomalous/conspiratorial phenomenon, and that
experience causes me to chuckle everytime one of these imbeciles
get on ART BELL.

These opinionated villains are not on a truth-seeking quest, but
rather, would seek to lie and justify their falsehood in
promotion of their cause, and they strive to forevermore
propogate their fraudulent, drug-induced new-age faith/dogma upon
the ignorant, who so foolishly accept it without justifiable
questioning.

So there.

KY
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/task/





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   Apr > Apr 20

                       PHENOMENON - Issue #6 - Part 1

From: Bob Tidwell <bob.t@mindspring.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 12:40:54 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 04:47:35 -0400
Subject: PHENOMENON - Issue #6 - Part 1

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     PHENOMENON
     E-Mail Newsletter             A Forum for the
     # 6 - Part 1               Strangeness Around us
     April 18, 1998

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<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

         In This Issue

                   ~~~ Part 1 ~~~

               *** Quote of the Week
               *** Editor's Notes for Part 1
               *** Archeological Coverups?

                   ~~~ Part 2 ~~~

               *** Editor's Notes for Part 2
               *** The PHOENIX GAZETTE Article
               *** Newsletter Guidelines

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<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

                    -------------------
                     Quote of the Week
                    -------------------

 The only thing that is certain is that nothing is certain.

             Pliny the Elder - "Historia Naturalis"

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            ---------------------------
             Editor's Notes for Part 1
            ---------------------------

Welcome to issue number 6.

I will be departing from some of my regular formats in the next
few issues, in order to address several topics that have been
discussed over the net in the past couple of weeks. The biggest
issue making the rounds at the moment, is whether or not the
"face on Mars" is an artificial structure, or just a quirk of
Martian nature. It appears that supporters and non-supporters
have already drawn their battle lines, without taking the time to
fully understand what the battle is about in the first place.

First, let's look at how archeology is suppressed on this world.
Then we have to decide if this same Government can be believed
concerning archeology on another world.

As always, I also respect your opinions, and would like to hear
them. Just drop us an E-Mail at:

                bob.t@mindspring.com

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             -------------------------
              Archeological Coverups?
             -------------------------
             by David Hatcher Childress


Most of us are familiar with the last scene  in the popular
Indiana Jones archeological adventure film RAIDERS OF THE LOST
ARK in which an important historical artefact, the Ark of the
Covenant from the Temple in Jerusalem, is locked in a crate and
put in a giant warehouse, never to be seen again, thus ensuring
that no history books will have to be rewritten and no history
professor will have to revise the lecture that he has been giving
for the last forty years.

While the film was fiction, the scene in which an important
ancient relic is buried in a warehouse is uncomfortably close to
reality for many researchers. To those who investigate
allegations of archaeological cover-ups, there are disturbing
indications that the most important archaeological institute in
the UnitedmStates, the Smithsonian Institute, an independent
federal agency, has been actively suppressing some of the most
interesting and important archaeological discoveries made in the
Americas.

The Vatican has been long accused of keeping artefacts and
ancient books in their vast cellars, without allowing the outside
world access to them. These secret treasures, often of a
controversial historical or religious nature, are allegedly
suppressed by the Catholic Church because they might damage the
church's credibility, or perhaps cast their official texts in
doubt. Sadly, there is overwhelming evidence that something very
similar is happening with the Smithsonian Institution.

The cover-up and alleged suppression of archaeological evidence
began in late 1881 when John Wesley Powell, the geologist famous
for exploring the Grand Canyon, appointed Cyrus Thomas as the
director of the Eastern Mound Division of the Smithsonian
Institution's Bureau of Ethnology.

When Thomas came to the Bureau of Ethnology he was a "pronounced
believer in the existence of a race of Mound Builders, distinct
from the American Indians."

However, John Wesley Powell, the director of the Bureau of
Ethnology, a very sympathetic man toward the American Indians,
had lived with the peaceful Winnebago Indians of Wisconsin for
many years as a youth and felt that American Indians were
unfairly thought of as primitive and savage.

The Smithsonian began to promote the idea that Native Americans,
at that time being exterminated in the Indian Wars, were
descended from advanced civilisations and were worthy of respect
and protection.

They also began a program of suppressing any archaeological
evidence that lent credence to the school of thought known as
Diffusionism, a school which believes that throughout history
there has been widespread dispersion of culture and civilisation
via contact by ship and major trade routes.

The Smithsonian opted for the opposite school, known as
Isolationism. Isolationism holds that most civilisations are
isolated from each other and that there has been very little
contact between them, especially those that are separated by
bodies of water. In this intellectual war that started in the
1880s, it was held that even  contact between the civilisations
of the Ohio and Mississippi Valleys were rare, and certainly
these civilisations did not have any contact with such advanced
cultures as the Mayas, Toltecs, or Aztecs in Mexico and Central
America. By Old World standards this is an extreme, and even
ridiculous idea, considering that the river system reached to
the Gulf of Mexico and these civilisations were as close as the
opposite shore of the gulf. It was like saying that cultures in
the Black Sea area could not have had contact with the
Mediterranean.

When the contents of many ancient mounds and pyramids of the
Midwest  were examined, it was shown that the history of the
Mississippi River Valleys was that of an ancient and
sophisticated culture that had been in contact with Europe and
other areas. Not only that, the contents of many mounds revealed
burials of huge men, sometimes seven or eight feet tall, in full
armour with swords and sometimes huge treasures.

For instance, when Spiro Mound in Oklahoma was excavated in the
1930's, a tall man in full armour was discovered along with a pot
of  thousands of pearls and other artefacts, the largest such
treasure so far documented. The whereabouts of the man in armour
is unknown and it is quite likely that it eventually was taken to
the Smithsonian Institution.

In a private conversation with a well-known historical researcher
(who shall remain nameless), I was told that a former employee of
the Smithsonian, who was dismissed for defending the view of
diffusionism in the Americas (i.e. the heresy that other ancient
civilisations may have visited the shores of North and South
America during the many   millenia before Columbus), alleged that
the Smithsonian at one time had actually taken a barge full of
unusual artefacts out into the Atlantic and dumped them in the
ocean.

Though the idea of the Smithsonian' covering up a valuable
archaeological find is difficult to accept for some, there is,
sadly, a great deal of evidence to suggest that the Smithsonian
Institution has knowingly covered up and 'lost' important
archaeological relics.  The STONEWATCH NEWSLETTER of the
Gungywamp Society in Connecticut, which researches megalithic
sites in New England, had a curious story in their Winter 1992
issue about stone coffins discovered in 1892 in  Alabama which
were sent to the Smithsonian Institution and then 'lost'.
According to the newsletter, researcher Frederick J. Pohl wrote
an intriguing letter in 1950 to the late Dr.T.C. Lethbridge, a
British archaeologist.

The letter from Pohl stated, "A professor of geology sent me a
reprint (of the) Smithsonian Institution, THE CRUMF BURIAL CAVE
by Frank Burns, US Geological Survey, from the report of the US
National Museum for 1892, pp 451-454, 1984. In the Crumf Cave,
southern branch of the Warrior River, in Murphy's Valley, Blount
County, Alabama, accessible from Mobile Bay by river, were
coffins of wood hollowed out by fire,  aided by stone or copper
chisels. Either of these coffins were taken  to the Smithsonian.
They were about 7.5 feet long, 14" to 18" wide, 6" to 7" deep.
Lids open.

I wrote recently to the Smithsonian, and received a reply March
11th from F.M. Setzler, Head Curator of Department of
Anthropology (He said) 'We have not been able to find the
specimens in our collections, though records show that they were
received."

David Barron, President of the Gungywamp Society was eventually
told by the Smithsonian in 1992 that the coffins were actually
wooden      troughs and that they could not be viewed anyway
because they were    housed in an asbestos-contaminated
warehouse. This warehouse was to be closed for the next ten years
and no one was allowed in except the Smithsonian personnel!

Ivan T. Sanderson, a well-known zoologist and frequent guest on
Johnny Carson's TONIGHT SHOW in the 1960s (usually with an exotic
animal with a pangolin or a lemur), once related a curious story
about a letter he received regarding an engineer who was
stationed on the Aleutian island of Shemya during World War II.
While building an airstrip, his crew bulldozed a group of hills
and discovered under several sedimentary layers what appeared to
be human remains. The  Alaskan mound was in fact a graveyard of
gigantic human remains, consisting of crania and long leg bones.

The crania measured from 22 to 24 inches from base to crown.
Since an adult skull normally measures about eight inches from
back to front, such a large crania would imply an immense size
for a normally proportioned human. Furthermore, every skull was
said to have been neatly trepanned (a process of cutting a hole
in the upper portion of the skull).

In fact, the habit of flattening the skull of an infant and
forcing it to grow in an elongated shape was a practice used by
ancient Peruvians, the Mayas, and the Flathead Indians of
Montana. Sanderson  tried to gather further proof, eventually
receiving a letter from another member of the unit who
confirmed the report. The letters both indicated that the
Smithsonian Institution had collected the remains, yet nothing
else was heard. Sanderson seemed convinced that the Smithsonian
Institution had received the bizarre relics, but wondered why
they would not release the data. He asks, "...is it that these
people cannot face rewriting all the textbooks?"

In 1944 an accidental discovery of an even more controversial
nature  was made by Waldemar Julsrud at Acambaro, Mexico.
Acambaro is in the state of Guanajuato, 175 miles northwest of
Mexico City. The strange archaeological site there yielded over
33,500 objects of ceramic; stone, including jade; and knives of
obsidian (sharper than steel and still used today in heart
surgery). Jalsrud, a prominent local German merchant, also found
statues ranging from less than an inch to six feet in length
depicting great reptiles, some of them in ACTIVE ASSOCIATION with
humans - generally eating them, but in some bizarre statuettes an
erotic association was indicated. To observers many of these
creatures resembled dinosaurs.

Jalsrud crammed this collection into twelve rooms of his expanded
house. There startling representations of Negroes, Orientals, and
bearded Caucasians were included as were motifs of Egyptians,
Sumerian and other ancient non-hemispheric civilisations, as well
as  portrayals of Bigfoot and aquatic  monsterlike creatures,
weird human-animal mixtures, and a host of other inexplicable
creations. Teeth from an extinct Ice Age horse, the skeleton of a
mammoth, and a number of human skulls were found at the same
site as the ceramic artefacts.

Radio-carbon dating in the laboratories of the University of
Pennsylvania and additional tests using the thermoluminescence
method of dating pottery were performed to determine the age of
the objects. Results indicated the objects were made about 6,500
years ago, around 4,500 BC. A team of experts at another
university, shown Jalrud's half-dozen samples but unaware of
their origin, ruled out the possibility that they could have been
modern reproductions. However, they fell silent when told of
their controversial source.

In 1952, in an effort to debunk this weird collection which was
gaining a certain amount of fame, American archaeologist Charles
C. DiPeso claimed to have minutely examined the then 32,000
pieces within not more than four hours spent at the home of
Julsrud. In a forthcoming book, long delayed by continuing
developments in his investigation, archaeological investigator
John H. Tierney, who has lectured on the case for decades, points
out that to have done that DiPeso would have had to have
inspected 133 pieces per minute steadily for four hours, whereas
in actuality, it would have required weeks merely to have
separated the massive jumble of exhibits and arranged them
properly for a valid evaluation.

Tierney, who collaborated with the later Professor Hapgood, the
late  William N. Russell, and others in the investigation,
charges that the Smithsonian Institution and other archaeological
authorities conducted a campaign of disinformation against the
discoveries. The Smithsonian had, early in the controversy,
dismissed the entire Acambaro collection as an elaborate hoax.
Also, utilising the Freedom of Information Act, Tierney
discovered that practically the entirety of the Smithsonian's
Julsrud case files are missing.

After two expeditions to the site in 1955 and 1968, Professor
Charles Hapgood, a professor of history and anthropology at the
University of New Hampshire, recorded the results of his 18-year
investigation of Acambaro in a privately printed book entitled
MYSTERY IN ACAMBARO. Hapgood was initially an open-minded
skeptic concerning the collection but became a believer after his
first visit in 1955, at which time he witnessed some of the
figures being excavated and even dictated to the diggers where he
wanted them to dig.

Adding to the mind-boggling aspects of this controversy is the
fact that the Instituto Nacional de Antropologia e Historia,
through the late Director of PreHispanic Monuments, Dr. Eduardo
Noguera, (who, as head of an official investigating team at the
site, issued a report which Tierney will be publishing), admitted
"the apparent scientific legality with which these objects were
found." Despite evidence of their own eyes, however, officials
declared that because of the objects 'fantastic' nature, they had
to have been a hoax played on Julsrud!

A disappointed but ever-hopeful Julsrud died. His house was sold
and the collection put in storage. The collection is not
currently open to the public.

Perhaps the most amazing suppression of all is the excavation of
an Egyptian tomb by the Smithsonian itself in Arizona. A lengthy
front page story of the PHOENIX GAZETTE on 5 April 1909, gave a
highly  detailed report of the discovery and excavation of a
rock-cut vault by an expedition led by a Professor S.A. Jordan of
the Smithsonian. The Smithsonian, however, claims to have
absolutely no knowledge of the discovery or its discoverers.

The World Explorers Club decided to check on this story by
calling the Smithsonian in Washington, D.C., though we felt there
was little chance of getting any real information. After speaking
briefly to an operator, we were transferred to a Smithsonian
staff archaeologist, and a woman's voice came on the phone and
identified herself.

I told her that I was investigating a story from a 1909 Phoenix
newspaper article about the Smithsonian Institution's having
excavated rock-cut vaults in the Grand Canyon where Egyptian
artefacts had been discovered, and whether the Smithsonian
Institution could give me any more information on the subject.

"Well, the first thing I can tell you, before we go any further,"
she said, "is that no Egyptian artefacts of any kind have ever
been found in North or South America. Therefore, I can tell you
that the Smithsonian Institute has never been involved in any
such excavations." She was quite helpful and polite but, in the
end, knew nothing. Neither she nor anyone else with whom I spoke
could find any record of the discovery or either G.E. Kinkaid and
Professor S.A. Jordan.

While it cannot be discounted that the entire story is an
elaborate newspaper hoax, the fact that it was on the front page,
named the prestigious Smithsonian Institution, and gave a highly
detailed story that went on or several pages, lends a great deal
to its credibility. It is hard to believe such a story could have
come out of thin air.

Is the Smithsonian Institution covering up an archaeological
discovery of immense importance? If this story is true it would
radically change the current view that there was no transoceanic
contact in pre-Columbian times, and that all American Indians, on
both continents, are descended from Ice Age explorers who came
across the Bering  Strait. (Any  information on G.E. Kinkaid and
Professor S.A. Jordan, or their alleged discoveries, that readers
may have would be greatly appreciated.....write to Childress at
the World Explorers Club [address at end of article]

Is the idea that ancient Egyptians came to the Arizona area in
the ancient past so objectionable and preposterous that it must
be covered up? Perhaps the Smithsonian Institution is more
interested in maintaining the status quo than rocking the boat
with astonishing new discoveries that overturn previously
accepted academic teachings.

Historian and linguist Carl Hart, editor of WORLD EXPLORER, then
obtained a hiker's map of the Grand Canyon from a bookstore in
Chicago. Poring over the map, we were amazed to see that much of
the area on the north side of the canyon has Egyptian names. The
area around Ninety-four Mile Creek and Trinity Creek had areas
(rock formations, apparently) with names like Tower of Set, Tower
of Ra, Horus Temple, Osiris Temple, and Isis Temple. In the
Haunted Canyon area were such names as the Cheops Pyramid, the
Buddha Cloister, Buddha Temple, Manu Temple and Shiva Temple. Was
there any relationship between these places and the alleged
Egyptian discoveries in the Grand Canyon?

We called a state archaeologist at the Grand Canyon, and were
told that the early explorers had just liked Egyptian and Hindu
names, but that it was true that this area was off limits to
hikers or other visitors, "because of dangerous caves."

Indeed, this entire area with the Egyptian and Hindu place names
in the Grand Canyon is a forbidden zone - no one is allowed into
this large area.

We could only conclude that this was the area where the vaults
were located. Yet today, this area is curiously off-limits to
all hikers  and even, in large part, park personnel.

I believe that the discerning reader will see that if only a
small part of the "Smithsoniangate" evidence is true, then our
most hallowed archaeological institution has been actively
involved in suppressing evidence for advanced American cultures,
evidence for ancient voyages of various cultures to North
America, evidence for anomalistic giants and other oddball
artefacts, and evidence that tends to disprove the official dogma
that is now the history of North America.

The Smithsonian's Board of Regents still refuses to open its
meetings to the news media or the public. If Americans were ever
allowed inside the 'nation's attic', as the Smithsonian has been
called, what skeletons might they find?


               World Explorers Club
                 403 Kemp Street
        Kempton, Illinois 60946-0074 USA
              Tel : (815) 253-6390
              FAX : (815) 253-6300

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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                ~~~ End of Part 1 ~~~
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>









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                      UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 16

From: Masinaigan <Masinaigan@aol.com> [Joseph Trainor]
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 13:05:29 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 04:46:11 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 16


     UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 3, Number 16
April 19, 1998
Editor: Joseph Trainor

FOUR UFOs CAUSE CITYWIDE
BLACKOUT IN ARGENTINA

     Eyewitnesses spotted four UFOs over Bariloche,
a city in southern Argentina, immediately prior and
during two citywide electrical blackouts.
     Bariloche is a popular ski resort in the Andes,
on the south shore of Lago (Lake) Nahuel Huapi,
located 1,040 kilometers (650 miles) southwest
of Buenos Aires.
     The first blackout took place at 7:45 p.m. on
Sunday, April 12, 1998 and lasted until 10:11 p.m.
"Spokesmen for Cooperativa Electricidade
Bariloche (CEB) said the origin of the electrical
blackout that darkened a great part of the city
has no explanation.  No cause exists to explain
the occurrence."
     CEB linemen traced the source of the power
shutdown to transmission lines leading to the
Cipresales transformer substation.
     Power was briefly restored for four minutes.
But at 10:15 p.m., Bariloche's lights went off
again, and the city remained without power
until 1:30 a.m. Monday, April 13.
     According to the newspaper Diario Rio Negro,
"Gustavo and Beatriz Riveros saw strange lights
hovering above Cerro Carbon (hill) in the eastern
section of the city  Beatriz saw two of the lights
'fuse together' over the Lions (a land feature on
the hillside--J.T.) just as the lights went out.
Other witnesses reported strange illuminations
over Lago Nahuel Huapi."
     "In the barrio San Francisco, a woman saw
'a ball of red light' descending in a zigzag pattern
toward the large pedestrian stairway at Tiscornia."
     A "luminous disc" was also seen near the
intersection of Calle Fernando Beschtete and
Calle La Paz.
     In the barrio Nicolas Lavalle, eyewitnesses
saw four luminous UFOs hovering overhead.
One witness, Sara Salizar, said, "They are a large
spacecraft and three smaller ones that attached
themselves to the larger one over and over again."
     Andrea Capararo told the Argentine news agency
TOLAM that she and her sisters, Natalia and
Carolina, "at 11:30 (p.m.) we observed in the sky
a kind of large plate with twinkling red, yellow, green
and blue lights, and another object a little bit longer
with red and yellow lights.  The luminous objects
seemed permanently supported in the air for several
minutes, then moved away towards the lake."
    Natalia and Carolina Capararo described the
saucer as resembling "a tomato bigger than an
airplane" and flying toward Cerro Carbon, east of
the barrio.
     "Various inhabitants of the upper (highland)
region of the city, for their part, told radio and TV
reporters that they had first seen a formation of
stars moving across the sky with twinkling lights
colored red, yellow and green and with a brilliant
white radiance, between 10:30 and 11:45 p.m.
Sunday night."
     "The moving lights appeared to be attached
to an elongated form and another form resembling
a small bottle, the inhabitants said.  The union of
the two objects produced 'a great star,' like a great
electrical discharge, and the lights of the city went
out."
     Bariloche is the site of two of Argentina's most
famous incidents, the Dr. Tarda case in December
1968 and the jetliner pilot case in June 1995.
(See the Argentinian newspapers Diario Popular of
Buenos Aires and Diario Rio Negro for April 14,
1998.  Muchas gracias a Carlos Iurchuk, Luis Pacheco
y ALFANET para esas noticias.)

NEON GREEN UFO SEEN IN
NORTHERN VIRGINIA

     On Friday, April 3, 1998, at 6:30 p.m., a UFO
described as "a small, neon green, egg-shaped
object" flew over downtown Fredericksburg,
Virginia (population 19,027).
     Several local residents, plus four officers of
the Fredericksburg police, witnessed the UFO's
overflight.
     Eyewitness Robert Tolen of Spotsylvania
County spotted the UFO while he was at a pay
phone at Eubank's Amoco station on Princess
Anne Street.  "I believe it was a UFO," Tolen
was quoted as saying in the Fredericksburg
Free-Lance Star, "I don't care what anyone says."
     Michael Todaro of Stafford County "was at a
baseball field at Falmouth Elementary School"
when he spied the UFO, saying, "It was one of
the weirdest things I've ever seen."
     "If someone else hadn't seen it, I never would
have told anyone about it.  Never.  Never," Todaro
told the Free-Lance Star.
     According to the newspaper, the four officers
"were in the parking lot behind police headquarters"
when they sighted the object.
    The newspaper checked with the Wallops
Island missile test range near Chincoteague to
determine if the witnesses had actually witnesses
a rocket test.  But a spokesman for Wallops Island
told them that there "were no tests on Friday."
     Fredericksburg is just south of Route 3, about
57 miles (91 kilometers) north of Richmond, the
state capital.
     The Free-Lance Star also reported a UFO
incident near the Patuxent Naval Air Test Center
in Lexington Park, Maryland (population 9,743).
"Witnesses saw a blue UFO that same evening"
near the center on Highway 235, and "It hovered
for a few minutes, then sped away."  (See the
Fredericksburg Free-Lance Star for April 7, 1998.
Many thanks to Kenneth Young, public relations
director for Tri-States Advocates for Scientific
Knowledge, T.A.S.K., for forwarding the article.)

SPHERICAL BLACK UFO
SEEN NEAR DALLAS, TEXAS

     On Sunday, April 12, 1998, at 11 a.m., a U.S.
Air Force veteran, Mike H., and his family were
driving north on Interstate Highway 35 northwest
of Dallas, Texas.
     As he drove through the suburb of Farmers
Branch (population 24,250), Mike reported,
"I spotted a black round-shaped UFO flying very
fast and just below the clouds.  The object looked
quite small to me, less than the size of a pencil
held at arm's length.  But due to the height, even a
large object would look small."
     At first Mike said nothing to his family, wondering
if the object might be a bird, but then he realized
that "it was flying much too fast" to be a bird.
     The motorists kept the UFO in view as they
drove past Royal Lane and L.B. Houston Park,
heading for Interstate Highway 635, aka the Lyndon B.
Johnson Freeway.
     "The object was moving faster than we were,"
Mike reported.  "Our vehicle was moving approximately
65 miles per hour, and the object moved past us in
the same direction and within ten seconds was out
of sight."  (Email Interview)
(Editor's Comment: Ten seconds to the horizon would
mean an estimated speed of 1,440 miles per hour.)

SHEFFIELD UFO CASE CAUSES
A FUROR IN BRITAIN

     The March 24, 1997 UFO incident in the Peak
District west of Sheffield is now the subject of an
investigation by the newspaper Sheffield Star,
the British UFO Research Association (BUFORA)
and the Hon. Helen Jackson, Member of Parliament
for Sheffield/Hillsborough.
     In early April, the Sheffield Star revealed that
the RAF had conducted a low-altitude training
exercise that night and had participated in a massive
air-and-ground search for a purported missing
aircraft.
     Shortly thereafter, Mrs. Jackson submitted a list
of questions about the Sheffield case to the UK
Ministry of Defence (MoD).
     On April 7, 1998, John Spellar, Under-Secretary of
Defense sent Mrs. Jackson this response: "It is not
possible 12 months after the date in question to state
precisely where military activities were being carried
out.  Records kept show only that aircraft were tasked
to carry out low flying over the Peak District between
2030 and 2107 (8:30 to 9:07 p.m.) local time on the
evening of 24 March 1997.  No low-level flying is
permitted over the Sheffield urban area or any other
major conurbation."
     The night of March 24, 1997, instruments at the
University of Edinburgh recorded two mysterious
sonic booms in the Sheffield area.  Eyewitnesses
on the ground reported seeing a triangular UFO and
up to six RAF Tornado fighters flying overhead.
     According to the May/June 1997 issue of UFO
Magazine (page 9), the witnesses described the
object as "a huge triangular-shaped UFO (that) passed
directly overhead at 300 feet at 9:30 p.m.  The craft
had pinkish-colored lights around its curved edges and
a blinking blue light on its underside and 'lit up the
street as bright as day.'"
     Since March 24, 1997, rumors of a UFO air battle
and a Tornado crash have circulated in Derbyshire and
South Yorkshire.  According to the story, the triangular
UFO appeared over Dronfield, Derbyshire.  Six RAF
Tornado interceptors engaged in an air attack on the
craft.  The UFO supposedly shot down a Tornado,
which crashed in a reservoir near the Howden Moors
in Derbyshire.  The UFO then fled into space.
     Following the exchange of letters between
Under-Secretary Spellar and Mrs. Jackson, BUFORA
press officer Dave Clarke inteviewed Alan Pattison
of MoD's "UFO desk" and his deputy, Squadron Leader
Tom Manning of the RAF.
     According to Clarke, the men "confirmed the planes
involved in the incident were two Tornado GR1 Strike
aircraft which were operating from the base at RAF
Marham on a pre-booked and pre-planned low-level
training exercise over the Peak District.  These
Tornados were the type used on bombing missions
in the (Persian) Gulf War and are not fighters that
would be scrambled for an intercept."
     "They also admitted that other Tornados and indeed
Jaguar fighters from other NATO bases took part in
the night-time sortie, which included night-time flying at
a minimum 250 feet altitude over the mountains west
of Sheffield."
     UFO researcher Max Burns has claimed that the
triangular mystery object was tracked on radar at 9:55
p.m. that night by the Royal Signals unit at the RAF
Linton-upon-Ouse base, near the city of York.
     Clarke stated, "The MoD/RAF current position is
that the two sonic booms recorded at 2132 and 2206
(9:32 and 10:06 p.m. by Edinburgh) that night remain
'unexplained.'  They claim the low-flying exercise was
over fifty minutes before these sonic events were
recorded and say that they have no record of them at
the time of the exercise."
     Pattison and Manning stated, "We did not chase
a UFO, and there has been no cover-up.  We responded
to a request by the police to help to search for a crashed
aircraft and sent a helicopter from RAF Leconfield.  We
don't know what caused the sonic events, and the whole
thing is a mystery to us, too."
     Clarke revealed that the air-and-ground search
involved 200 police, fire and military reserve personnel,
who covered an area of 40 square miles around
Bolsterstone, South Yorkshire.  The helicopter from
RAF Leconfield was a Westland Sea King HAS Mk 6,
which assisted the West Yorkshire police helicopter
in the search.  (See the Sheffield Star for April 4, 1998.
Also UFO Roundup, volume 2, number 12 for March 30,
1997.  Many thanks to Dave Clarke of BUFORA and
John Hayes for this story.)

NEW CYDONIA PHOTO ADDS
TO MARS MYSTERIES

     The Mars Global Surveyor snapped a second
high-resolution photo of the Cydonia region on Mars
this week, this time encompassing an area known
as "The City."
     On its 239th orbit, Surveyor once again aimed
its Mars Orbiting Camera (MOC) at the desert
lowlands at latitude 40.8 degrees north and
longitude 9.6 degrees west.  And, just like last
week, the photo's appearance on the Internet raised
a ruckus.
     On Thursday, April 16, 1998, a memo from a
person identifying himself as "Fred Kurros" appeared
on a website, alleging that Surveyor's images showed
artificial structures.
     "Apparently, yesterday (Wednesday, April 15) at
the Denver Lockheed-Martin location was really a
party-like atmosphere, people running around and
saying, 'There was life on Mars half a billion years ago!'"
Kurros wrote, "...and NASA is prepared to announce it
in the next three days."
     "The new image that clearly (shows) at least one
pyramid structure...with right angles on at least three
of the sides...and it is a perfect right angle.  Plus, many
of us have been comparing it to photos of the Giza
pyramid, and the likeness is stunning."
     At 2:54 p.m. on Thursday, in an interview with Rob
McConnell, spokesperson Frank O'Donnell, Manager
of Media Services for the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in
Pasadena, California, denied the "Kurros" story.
     O'Donnell stated that "stories being circulated on the
Internet pertaining to an alleged statement that NASA
will be releasing as to alleged 'artificial structures' on
Mars as captured by MGS (Mars Global Surveyor) are
unfounded--and were denied."
     O'Donnell added that "the (second Cydonia) photo
received at JPL, after careful examination, shows no
proof of any artificial structure(s)," and pointed out to
McConnell that "people will see in them what they
want to see."
     The new Cydonia photo has also stirred renewed
debate among professional geologists.
     In a new paper entitled "A Geological and Geomorphic
Investigative Approach to Some of the Enigmatic Cydonia
Landforms," geologist James L. Erjavel disputed NASA's
conclusion that the Face and other landforms in Cydonia
were caused by "differential erosion."
     NASA's 1989 McGill survey concluded that Cydonia
was once covered by one kilometer (1,000 meters) of
"erodible sediment" that was blown away by strong
Martian winds "leaving a knobby terrain that is a
combination of exhumed remnants of cratered terrain,
igneous intrusives and cratered plateau material."
     Erjavel pointed out that the Cydonia photos show
only a "slight modest erosion" of the region.  Erodible
material was present to a depth of only 200 meters
in prehistoric times, not 1,000 meters.
     As proof of his assertion, Erjavel offered a comparison
of Cydonia with the cratered area immediately to the east.
Both regions show clearly-defined impact craters of
a diameter of one kilometer or greater.  However, while
the eastern region has "a significantly greater number
of smaller craters less than one kilometer" in diameter,
Cydonia has none.
     "On the most basic level," Erjavel wrote, "this
dimophism suggests there is a distinct difference
between the cratered and knobby terrains that
cannot be accounted for if exhumation by erosive
forces has been the primary factor in the area's
morphological development."  (Many thanks to
Steve Wilson Sr. for these news stories.)
(Editor's Comment: Seeing the second new Cydonia
photo, I was excited to find the remnants of an
'igneous intrusive,' aka a volcanic dike, in the lower
portion of the picture.  The dike is similar to the one
at Shiprock, New Mexico and is proof that a
stratovolcano like California's Mount Shasta or
Washington state's Mount Rainier existed in
Cydonia about ten to fifteen million years ago.
Interestingly, these dikes, which are caused by
molten magma seeping up into cracks in the
existing bedrock, are usually found in sedimentary
rocks.  I still say the underlying formation that
created Cydonia's plain is sandstone, not basalt.)

SHUTTLE "SPACE ARK" TAKES
OFF ON NEUROLAB MISSION

     On Friday, April 17, 1998, the space shuttle
Columbia took off from Cape Canaveral, Florida on
its twenty-fifth mission--a two-week Neurolab
experiment designed to study the effects of space
travel on the brains of living creatures.
     The launch had been scheduled for Thursday,
April 16, but a malfuntion in the main comlink data
processor ended the countdowm.  "But tens of
thousands of spectators packed around the Kennedy
Space Center yesterday to watch the ship soar into a
clear afternoon sky and glitter for five minutes before
vanishing from sight.
     The shuttle could easily be called Altman's Ark
because, riding along with pilot Scott Altman, mission
commander Rick Searloss and crew, are 1,514 crickets
in the larval stage, 18 pregnant mice, 152 rats, 60
snails, 75 snail eggs and 233 swordtail fish.
     "Scientists know from 37 years of human space
flight what happens to the body during weightlessness.
The goal of the current mission, called Neurolab, is
to understand why."
     "By knowing how the nervous system adjusts to
the lack of gravity, the space agency will be in a better
position to send astronauts to Mars and establish
moon colonies."
     On Saturday, April 19, Columbia's doctors, Dave
Williams and Jay Buckey Jr. conducted complex
animal dissections, "removing the brains of four rats
so scientists can see how the nervous system
changes in weightlessness. Scientists say the only
way to know precisely how the nervous system
adapts and develops without gravity is to remove
and preserve body parts in orbit."  (See the New
York Post for April 18, 1998, "Shuttle roars off into
space with a cast of thousands" and for April 19, 1998,
"Shuttle crew looks to brainless rats for help.")
(Editor's Comment: One can only hope that some star-
hopping species unfamiliar with Earth does not select the
next 15 days to visit our solar system.  Their curiosity
piqued by that strange vehicle orbiting the blue planet,
they might focus the old tractor beam, reel in Columbia
and schedule everything aboard for what the Post
euphemistically calls "post-landing dissection.")

from the UFO Files:

1928: KARJAT TO POONA
           VIA HYPERSPACE

     A strange case of apparent teleportation took
place in Poona, India back in April 1928.  A nine-
year-old boy, Damodar Ketkar, had been plagued
by a type of teleportation phenomena since the
previous year.  Coins, toys and other small objects
miraculously popped into view above his bed--inside
a mosquito net--and dropped onto the sheet.  The
phenomena were meticulously recorded by Miss
Kohn, his British governess.
     But, seventy years ago, on April 23, 1928,
Damodar made the jump into hyperspace himself.
     Miss Kohn writes, "At 9:45 a.m. on April 23rd,
the elder boy (Damodar) suddenly materialized in
front of me in your doorway like a rubber ball.  He
looked bright but amazed, and said, 'I have just
come from Karjat.'  He didn't come through any
door."
     "My sister describes the posture of the boy as
having been most remarkable.  When she looked
up from her letter-writing, she saw him bending
downward: both his hands were hanging away from
his sides, and the hands hanging limp--his feet were
not touching the floor, as she saw a distinct space
between his feet and the threshold.  It was precisely
the posture of a person who has been gripped around
the waist and carried, and therefore makes no effort
but is gently dropped at his location."
     Suddenly, as if released by an invisible agency,
Damodar tumbled to the carpet, shaken but unhurt.
     The phenomenal manifestations in the Ketkar
household at Poona, 200 kilometers (120 miles)
southeast of Bombay, continued until 1930 and
then mysteriously ended.  (See POLTERGEISTS
by Alan Gauld and A.C. Cornell, Routledge and
Kegan Paul, London, 1979, page 114)

FUN UFO WEBSITES:
     The second Cydonia photo is available at this
site: http://www.mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/target/
CYD2/index.html.
     I'd like to take time to correct two URLs from
last week's issue, both on the first Cydonia photo:
     Try the Malin site at this URL: http://www.msss.
com/mars/global_surveyor/camera/images/
4_6_face_releases/index.html
     Also, try the JPL Surveyor site at this URL:
http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/target/CYD1/index.html
     Brazil's Sociedade de Estudos Extraterrestres
(SOCEX) has a new site up and running.  They are
at http://www.tabajara.com/socex/
     Don't miss our parent site, UFO INFO, with its
vast array of stories, features, photos and links.
Drop in at http://ufoinfo.com
     For back issues of UFO ROUNDUP, try our
website at http://ufoinfo.com/roundup

     To our readers in Venezuela, Feliz Dia de
Independencia!  We'll be back next week with
more saucer news from "the paper that goes
home--UFO ROUNDUP."  See you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1998 by Masinaigan
Productions, all rights reserved.  Readers may post
news items from UFO ROUNDUP on their websites
or in newsgroups provided that they credit the
newsletter and its editor by name and list the date
of issue in which the item first appeared.






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   Apr > Apr 20

                        PHENOMENON - Issue 6 - Part 2

From: Bob Tidwell <bob.t@mindspring.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 13:06:14 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 04:48:15 -0400
Subject: PHENOMENON - Issue 6 - Part 2

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     PHENOMENON
     E-Mail Newsletter             A Forum for the
     # 6 - Part 2               Strangeness Around us
     April 18, 1998

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                   ~~~ Part 2 ~~~

               *** Editor's Notes for Part 2
               *** The PHOENIX GAZETTE Article
               *** The Structures on Mars
               *** Newsletter Guidelines

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             ---------------------------
              Editor's Notes for Part 2
             ---------------------------

Similar stories of unknown archeological sites have appeared over
the years here in the U.S.

In 1946 a man calling himself Dr. F. Bruce Russell, and claiming
to be a retired physician, told a similar story about finding
strange underground rooms in the Death Valley area in 1931.

He told of a large room with several tunnels leading off in
different directions. One of these tunnels led to another large
room that contained three mummies. Artifacts found in the room
appeared to be a combination of Egyptian and American Indian
design. The most amazing thing about the mummies though was the
fact that they were more than eight feet tall.

Dr. Russell and a group of investors formed "Amazing
Explorations, Inc" to handle the release, and profit, from this
remarkable find. But, as stories of this type usually go, Russell
disappeared, and the investigators were never able to find the
caverns and tunnels again, even though Russell had personally
taken them there. The desert can be very deceiving to anyone not
used to traveling it. Month's later, Russell's car was found
abandoned, with a burst radiator, in a remote area of Death
Valley. His suitcase was still in the car.

The old TV series Death Valley Days once ran a short story about
western pioneers also finding mummies in the desert. Since one of
the script writers stated that "there had never been a script
without a solid basis in fact", it would be interesting to find
out what their source had been.

For now, these stories will have to be shrouded in mystery, along
with the 21,000 year old bones found in California's Imperial
Valley, also rumored to have been spirited off by the
Smithsonian.

Next up is the 1909 PHOENIX GAZETTE article mentioned in part 1,
and then we'll take a look at how all of this relates to the
"face on Mars."

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    THE PHOENIX GAZETTE
      April 5th, 1909

   EXPLORATIONS IN GRAND CANYON

  Mysteries of Immense Rich Cavern being brought to light
  Jordan is enthused
  Remarkable finds indicate ancient people migrated from Orient


The latest news of the progress of the explorations of what is
now regarded by scientists as not only the oldest archeological
discovery in the United States, but one of the most valuable in
the world, which was mentioned some time ago in the Gazette, was
brought to the city yesterday by G.E. Kinkaid, the explorer who
found the great underground citadel of the Grand Canyon during a
trip from Green River, Wyoming, down the Colorado, in a wooden
boat, to Yuma, several months ago.

According to the story related to the Gazette by Mr. Kinkaid, the
archaelogists of the Smithsonian Institute, which is financing
the expeditions, have made discoveries which almost conclusively
prove that the race which inhabited this mysterious cavern, hewn
in solid rock by human hands, was of oriental origin, possibly
from Egypt, tracing back to Ramses. If their theories are borne
out by the translation of the tablets engraved with
heiroglyphics, the mystery of the prehistoric peoples of North
America, their ancient arts, who they were and whence they came,
will be solved. Egypt and the Nile, and Arizona and the Colorado
will be linked by a historical chain running back to ages which
staggers the wildest fancy of the fictionist.

     A Thorough Examination

Under the direction of Prof. S. A. Jordan, the Smithsonian
Institute is now prosecuting the most thorough explorations,
which will be continued until the last link in the chain is
forged. Nearly a mile underground, about 1480 feet below the
surface, the long main passage has been delved into, to find
another mammoth chamber from which radiates scores of
passageways, like the spokes of a wheel.

Several hundred rooms have been discovered, reached by
passageways running from the main passage, one of them having
been explored for 854 feet and another 634 feet. The recent finds
include articles which have never been known as native to this
country, and doubtless they had their origin in the orient. War
weapons, copper instruments, sharp-edged and hard as steel,
indicate the high state of civilization reached by these strange
people. So interested have the scientists become that
preparations are being made to equip the camp for extensive
studies, and the force will be increased to thirty or forty
persons.

     Mr. Kinkaid's Report

Mr. Kinkaid was the first white child born in Idaho and has been
an explorer and hunter all his life, thirty years having been in
the service of the Smithsonian Institute. Even briefly recounted,
his history sounds fabulous, almost grotesque.

"First, I would impress that the cavern is nearly inaccessible.
The entrance is 1,486 feet down the sheer canyon wall. It is
located on government land and no visitor will be allowed there
under penalty of trespass. The scientists wish to work
unmolested, without fear of archeological discoveries being
disturbed by curio or relic hunters.

A trip there would be fruitless, and the visitor would be sent on
his way. The story of how I found the cavern has been related,
but in a paragraph: I was journeying down the Colorado river in a
boat, alone, looking for mineral. Some forty-two miles up the
river from the El Tovar Crystal canyon, I saw on the east wall,
stains in the sedimentary formation about 2,000 feet above the
river bed. There was no trail to this point, but I finally
reached it with great difficulty.

Above a shelf which hid it from view from the river, was the
mouth of the cave. There are steps leading from this entrance
some thirty yards to what was, at the time the cavern was
inhabited, the level of the river. When I saw the chisel marks on
the wall inside the entrance, I became interested, securing my
gun and went in. During that trip I went back several hundred
feet along the main passage till I came to the crypt in which I
discovered the mummies. One of these I stood up  and photographed
by flashlight. I gathered a number of relics, which I carried
down the Colorado to Yuma, from whence I shipped them to
Washington with details of the discovery. Following this, the
explorations were undertaken.

     The Passages

"The main passageway is about 12 feet wide, narrowing to nine
feet toward the farther end. About 57 feet from the entrance, the
first side-passages branch off to the right and left, along
which, on both sides, are a number of rooms about the size of
ordinary living rooms of today, though some are 30 by 40 feet
square. These are entered by oval-shaped doors and are ventilated
by round air spaces through the walls into the passages. The
walls are about three feet six inches in thickness.

The passages are chiseled or hewn as straight as could be laid
out by an engineer. The ceilings of many of the rooms converge to
a center. The side-passages near the entrance run at a sharp
angle from the main hall, but toward the rear they gradually
reach a right angle in direction.

     The Shrine

"Over a hundred feet from the entrance is the cross-hall, several
hundred feet long, in which are found the idol, or image, of the
people's god, sitting cross-legged, with a lotus flower or lily
in each hand. The cast of the face is oriental, and the carving
this cavern. The idol almost resembles Buddha, though the
scientists are not certain as to what religious worship it
represents. Taking into consideration everything found thus far,
it is possible that this worship most resembles the ancient
people of Tibet.

Surrounding this idol are smaller images, some very beautiful in
form; others crooked-necked and distorted shapes, symbolical,
probably, of good and evil. There are two large cactus with
protruding arms, one on each side of the dais on which the god
squats. All this is carved out of hard rock resembling marble. In
the opposite corner of this  cross-hall were found tools of all
descriptions, made of copper. These people undoubtedly knew the
lost art of hardening this metal, which has been sought by
chemicals for centureis without result. On a bench running around
the workroom was some charcoal and other material probably used
in the process. There is also slag and stuff similar to matte,
showing that these ancients smelted ores, but so far no trace of
where or how this was done has been discovered, nor the origin of
the ore.

"Among the other finds are vases or urns and cups of copper and
gold, made very artistic in design. The pottery work includes
enameled ware and glazed vessels. Another passageway leads to
granaries such as are found in the oriental temples. They contain
seeds of varous kinds. One very large storehouse has not yet been
entered, as it is twelve  feet high and can be reached only from
above. Two copper hooks extend on the edge, which indicates that
some sort of ladder was attached. These granaries are rounded, as
the materials of which they are constructed, I think, is a very
hard cement. A gray metal is also found in this cavern, which
puzzles the scientists, for its identity  has not been
established. It resembles platinum. Strewn promiscuously over the
floor everywhere are what people call "cats eyse', a yellow stone
of no great value. Each one is engraved with the head of the
Malay type.

     The Hieroglyphics

"On all the urns, or walls over doorways, and tablets of stone
which were found by the image are the mysterious hieroglyphics,
the key to which the Smithsonian Institute hopes yet to discover.
The engraving on the tables probably has something to do with the
religion of the people. Similar hieroglyphics have been found in
southern Arizona.  Among the pictorial writings, only two animals
are found. One is of prehistoric type.

     The Crypt

"The tomb or crypt in which the mummies were found is one of the
largest of the chambers, the walls slanting back at an angle of
about 35 degrees. On these are tiers of mummies, each one
occupying a separate hewn shelf. At the head of each is a small
bench, on which is found copper cups and pieces of broken swords.
Some of the mummies are covered with clay, and all are wrapped in
a bark fabric.

The urns or cups on the lower tiers are crude, while as the
higher shelves are reached, the urns are finer in design, showing
a later stage of civilization. It is worthy of note that all the
mummies examined so far have proved to be male, no children or
females being  buried here. This leads to the belief that this
exterior section was the warriors' barracks.

"Among the discoveries no bones of animals have been found, no
skins, no clothing, no bedding.Many of the rooms are bare but
for water vessels. One room, about 40 by 700 feet, was probably
the main dining hall, for cooking utensils are found here. What
these people lived on is a problem, though it is presumed that
they came south in the winter and farmed in the valleys, going
back north in the summer.

Upwards of 50,000 people could have lived in the caverns
comfortably. One theory is that the present Indian tribes found
in Arizona are descendants of the serfs or slaves of the people
which inhabited the cave. Undoubtedly a good many thousands of
years before the Christian era, a people lived here which reached
a high stage of civilization. The chronology of human history is
full of gaps. Professor Jordan is much enthused over the
discoveries and believes that the find will prove of
incalculable value in archeological work.

"One thing I have not spoken of, may be of interest. There is one
chamber of the passageway to which is not ventilated, and when we
approached it a deadly, snaky smell struck us. Our light would
not penetrate the gloom, and until stronger ones are available we
will not know what the chamber contains. Some say snakes, but
other boo-hoo this idea and think it may contain a deadly gas or
chemicals  used by the ancients. No sounds are heard, but it
smells snaky just the same. The whole underground installation
gives one of shaky nerves the creeps. The gloom is like a weight
on one's shoulders, and our flashlights and candles only make the
darkness blacker. Imagination can revel in conjectures and
ungodly daydreams back through the ages that have elapsed till
the mind reels dizzily in space."

     An Indian Legend

In connection with this story, it is notable that among the Hopi
Indians the tradition is told that their ancestors once lived in
an underworld in the Grand Canyon till dissension arose between
the good and the bad, the people of one heart and the people of
two hearts. Machetto, who was their chief, counseled them to
leave the underworld, but there was no way out. The chief then
caused a tree to grow up and pierce the roof of the underworld,
and then the people of one heart climbed out. They tarried by
Paisisvai (Red River), which is the Colorado, and grew grain and
corn.

They sent out a message to the Temple of the Sun, asking the
blessing of peace, good will and rain for people of one heart.
That messenger never returned, but today at the Hopi villages at
sundown can be seen the old men of the tribe out on the housetops
gazing toward the sun, looking for the messenger. When he
returns, their lands and ancient  dwelling place will be restored
to them. That is the tradition.

Among the engravings of animals in the cave is seen the image of
a heart over the spot where it is located. The legend  was
learned by W.E. Rollins, the artist, during a year spent with the
Hopi Indians.

There are two theories of the origin of the Egyptians. One is
that they came from Asia; another that the racial cradle was in
the upper Nile region. Heeren, an Egyptologist, believed in the
Indian origin  of the Egyptians. The discoveries in the Grand
Canyon may throw further light on human evolution and prehistoric
ages.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

     ------------------------
      The Structures on Mars
     ------------------------

IF the preceding articles concerning the Smithsonian Institute's
coverup of archeological evidence here in the U.S. are true, then
how could we possibly trust any other branch of the U.S.
Government to give us the true facts concerning artificial
structures on Mars?

Before anyone jumps to any major conclusions after viewing only
one NASA image, let's carry this out to a logical conclusion.

The reason for all of the attention in the first place, is that
two separate photos taken by the Viking Orbiter in 1976 tend to
show a face-like structure on the planet's surface. Frame 35A72
shows this "face" with a low sun angle, and frame 70A13 also
gives the appearance of a "face", this time with a higher sun
angle. Further analysis also revealed other nearby structures
that appeared to have certain artificial charactics.

With the Global Surveyor probe, we were promised higher
resolution photos of the surface of Mars, that could prove or
disprove any of these theories. Remember though, this is the same
Government that has hidden the real truth concerning Roswell for
over 50 years. It's amazing that one government agency can
present us with weather balloons and dummies, and look idiotic.
But, another agency of the same government can give us a few
unanalyzed photos, supposedly taken on another planet  millions
of  miles away, and we accept it without question.

These photos now have to be analyzed, and, in order to keeps
things on an even keel, all possibilities have to be considered,
even those that sound farfetched as to what we may currently
believe.

With the first "face" image now received from Surveyor, I am
already seeing responses ranging from, "it's been destroyed by
some secret super power", to, "doesn't look like a face to me
either." All that we have at this point are several images that
haven't yet been properly analyzed. Remember that the "face"
resemblance appeared on both Viking shots of this area with
different lighting angles. Reconstructing the "face" appearance
from the Surveyor image (by someone other than NASA or Hoagland)
matching the Viking angles, to see if the "face" reappears, would
be a good place to start. Until this is done, how can any of us
be sure that we are seeing the truth on this matter? (Or that we
will ever know the truth) If this reconstruction can't be done
properly, then we can start asking questions.

Also, the rest of the Cydonia region awaits to be fully imaged,
so lets not "throw out the baby with the bath water."

For those that still have the impression that NASA is not a part
of any type of coverup, the next issue of PHENOMENON will look at
the possibility that NASA HAS been involved in UFO deceptions,
and will disclose for the first time, a secret project that may
 shed some light on the recent Mexico video footage.

                 ~~~ Bob ~~~

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

                   -----------------------
                    Newsletter Guidelines
                   -----------------------


                 PHENOMENON is a FREE newsletter

To add or remove yourself from our mailing list, please send an
E-Mail to:

               bob.t@mindspring.com.

The purpose of this free newsletter is to provide a forum for
information and discussion concerning the strangeness that
surrounds us in our daily lives. Articles, comments and/or
suggestions are welcome.

Articles may include, but are not limited to:
          ... UFOs & Ghost Lights
          ... The Paranormal
          ... New World Order
          ... Conspiracies
          ... Time Travel
          ... Hidden History
          ... etc...

We welcome:
          ... Feature Articles
          ... Analysis, Commentary or Updates
          ... Your Own Report of Strange Phenomena

All contributions to PHENOMENON E-Mail Newsletter must be in
English. We reserved the right to edit for language, grammar and
space.

            Anonymity will be provided if requested.

Segments or single quotes from articles may be reprinted in other
newsletters, bulletin boards or web sites, with permission from
the Editor, as long as credit is given to PHENOMENON E-Mail
Newsletter and, if applies, to the original source.

Thanks
      ~~~ Bob ~~~

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<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
                  (C) Bob Tidwell, 1998
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
                         ~~~ End ~~~
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 20

                 UpDates Off-line Until Thursday, April 23rd

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 05:50:55 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 05:50:55 -0400
Subject: UpDates Off-line Until Thursday, April 23rd





UpDates will be off-line until Thursday. Videocam on
shoulder, I'm off 'Down-east' to shoot icebergs and
seal hunters.


ebk






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 20

                       Re: Claims of Erosion - Phooey

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:47:00 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 05:17:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Claims of Erosion - Phooey

On Sat, 18 Apr 1998, UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote:

> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 08:31:03 -0400
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> From: SKvs <bradford@globalserve.net> [Sue Kovios]
> Subject: Claims of Erosion - Phooey

<snip>

> So how come the face has eroded in just 20+ years?

> Sue Kovios

Remember when Mt. St. Helens in Washington blew its top
in 1980?  Well, in the video "Mount St. Helens", Dr. Steve
Austin, a geologist shows just how quickly erosion can
work.  He has documented the quick formation of multilayers
of new "geological strata" and the rapid water erosion that
followed to produce large canyons in just a matter of days
which were previously thought to take millions of years.

Frequent violent planet wide dust storms have been seen on
Mars from even small telescopes on Earth.  Similar storms
on our planet would not only contribute to rapid erosion
but would also constantly change the appearance of even
large surface features from the huge quantity of material
that was redeposited elsewhere.

Europa with its frozen oceans and Io with its numerious
volcanoes spewing out hot liquid sulphur are just two
other worlds which will keep cartographers busy with their
ever changing faces.

I personally like the suggestion that the "Face on Mars"
was rearranged by nuclear explosions from missiles fired
from Earth by people that want to keep us in the dark
regarding our E.T. neighbours.  ;)

Nick Balaskas










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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 20

                     Alien Encounters Magazine To Close

From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 23:22:38 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 06:02:05 -0400
Subject: Alien Encounters Magazine To Close

Dear Errol,

I just thought you would like to know that the UK publication
ALIEN ENCOUNTERS, published by Paragon, will be closing down
after issue 26 in June.

The magazine's editor, Nina Pendred, informed me today that "
Unfortunately the paranormal market has been is steep decline in
the past few months, resulting in many of our competitors falling
by the wayside. Although the content of ALIEN ENCOUNTERS has
always been of exceptionally high standard, it has always had
difficulty finding its market. And in spite of our best efforts,
the falling sales figures have no longer made it a financially
viable proposition for Paragon Publishing. Everyone involved with
the magazine are obviously upset that the magazine is closing
before its time, and would like to thank you for your
contribution to ALIEN ENCOUNTERS".

This more-or-less leaves the UK market open to the Birdsall's UFO
MAGAZINE and FORTEAN TIMES. Not a pleasant thougt.


Philip.







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                              Filer's Files #15

From: Majorstar <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 00:08:02 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 05:58:50 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #15

Filer's Files #15-1998  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer:  MUFON Eastern Director,
April  16, 1998  Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020

Sightings continue and Soviet KGB Files reveal aliens are with us.

I just returned from filming in Los Angeles for an Associated Television
International two hour special documentary called "The Secret KGB UFO Files."
My observations indicate this may be one of the best UFO specials ever.  The
show features Roger Moore as the host. Dr. Richard Haines, Antonio Huneeus,
Stan Friedman, and Russian experts will appear.  The publicity for the special
claims that Top Secret documents and pictures reveal the truth. When two MIG
fighters tried to shoot down a UFO, both jets were blown out of the sky. We
were shown amazing film footage smuggled out of Russia. There is stunning
proof the Soviet�s recovered something not from this earth. The KGB took UFOs
seriously, they lost pilots and aircraft chasing them. Personally, I was
always surprised the Soviets were so interested in UFOs. Their spy
intelligence collection efforts would often pay more money for UFO information
than solid data on our latest aircraft. It�s too early to tell if the footage
taken of me will end up on the editing floor, but from the little I saw this
should be a remarkable show that will be shown during the sweeps in May on
TNT. Thanks to the great guys at Associated TV.

NEW JERSEY

April 17, 1998: Sam Sherman writes: "Having seen a Flying Saucer and some
other round anomalous aerial objects, I had no opinion either away about tales
of long, tubular aerial objects that might be Mother Ships which carried
smaller round scout craft to Earth. Tonight I believe I have learned
otherwise. My wife and I were driving to dinner at 7:30PM in Old Bridge, NJ
heading due West on Route 516 to East Brunswick. Directly overhead storm
clouds were gathering, although low on the horizon the sky was still blue and
the sun was shining brightly prior to setting. I looked up in the sky and saw
what looked like a contrail between some dark clouds. It was like no contrail
I had ever seen, as it moved forward in a northerly direction, but did not
leave a trail of vapor or smoke behind it stretching out. This was of definite
and finite length. To describe what I saw follows: At arm�s length, it
appeared to be about three to four inches long and tubular in shape. The color
was white, but with luminescent color overlaid greenish-blue tinge. As the sun
appeared to be behind it, the object did not appear to be reflecting the sun's
rays, but instead produced its own bright illumination. This long tubular
bright object was moving to the north and threading its way in the clouds. It
eventually was lost behind a dark cloud to the north.

I have seen footage of objects like this going back to the 1940s and heard of
observations of them from that era and up to date. I have heard these objects
evaluated as being a mile long or longer. What I and my wife both saw was
similar to recent footage from Colorado, New Jersey and South Korea. We did
not film this, shoot this with a digital camera or produce any technical
artifacts to create this image. We saw this object with our naked, unaided
eyes. I don't think we have a big enough landing field for this craft in Old
Bridge as much of our farm land is being developed for housing. This sighting
may be added to anyone's catalogue of sightings of similar objects in the past
or more recently. My wife and I will be glad to answer any questions posed on
this sighting. By the way, the object was canted at an angle of about 100
degrees to the ground." Thanks to Sam Sherman.

 GEORGIA:

MUFON investigator, John Thompson interviewed Douglas County Dispatcher, Adam
Watson, who said, "I took a call from a frantic lady reporting a UFO as big as
a house!" On April 5, 1998, the lady asked, "Is there a ball park behind my
house?" He replied, "No. Why?" She said there is a bright white light as big
as a house behind my house. The light has six smaller white lights on it, that
are rotating. "Watson said Douglas County Sheriff Department sent out cars to
patrol to Fatman Road the rest of the night, but none of the deputies arrived
in time to see a UFO. Dispatcher Watson said the lady was quite disturbed and
called Channel 2 in Atlanta and other news outlets about her UFO sighting.
John also talked to dispatcher, Jennifer Craig, who also talked to the lady.
She said, both the lady and her husband, and possibly some of their neighbors,
saw the UFO, hovering over  some trees near the couple's home. It had four
large white lights and two smaller lights. The UFO hovered for 10 to15 minutes
without making any noise.  The lady described the UFO to the Douglas County
dispatchers as the police cars raced to the scene, but  the UFO disappeared
just minutes before they arrived. Thanks to: John Thompson, Don and ISUR for
this report.

NORFOLK, VIRGINIA

We have further confirmation of the sighting of a strange craft over Norfolk.
Another witness has come forward. MUFON investigators Mike Shields, Dennis
Hawley and Dick Daley interviewed a witness Mr. William W., who reports
observing a large boomerang shaped UFO on March 12, 1997. The object dropped
in altitude to only 200 feet and moved north along the Hampton Boulevard in
Norfolk at a speed of between 40 to 50 mph. It was boomerang in shape with
three dome like structures underneath and one dome on top.  It consisted of
two right angles curving at the apex.  The UFO was between 800 to 1,000 feet
long with a groove along its length on its backside. The UFO disappeared
moving north behind some trees in the direction of Hampton Roads Bay. Thanks
to Ricardo Atristain MUFON VA State Director.

A reader saw the above article in Skywatch International e-mail. DJAlienasn
writes:
   "I live in the Hampton Roads area and work at Little Creek Amphibian Base.
I saw the same thing as it crossed the bay towards Hampton and I followed it.
It seemed to hover above Langley Air Force Base before ascending vertically
really smooth and fast. I thought I was crazy. Now I know I was not!!!"
DJAlienasn@aol.com  Editor's Note: This second sighting tends to confirm the
first. I would recommend continued investigation and comparison of drawings.
If we can come up with coordinates and times we may be able to confirm with
satellite data. Thanks to Skywatch International Inc.

A flash of Kryptonite green  zipped across the  Fredericksburg area on April
3, 1998, according to  The Free Lance-Star article dated: April 7, 1998.  Four
Fredericksburg police officers saw a green shaped neon egg along with many
other witnesses.

LOUISIANA

On Sunday, April 5, 1998, Ms. Kathy D. and her stepdaughter were driving south
on Highway 9 in Louisiana, from Junction City on the Arkansas state line to
Homer, LA. when they spotted something unusual in the sky.  "We noticed a
strange reflection in the sky," Kathy reported. "At first I thought this was
the sun reflecting off an aircraft. But after looking at the object I could
tell it was no airplane. It was a sphere, that I at first believed was a
weather balloon. But when it began to move randomly, I knew that it was not a
weather balloon."  "I pointed it out to my step-daughter, and we both watched
it disappear."  "In a matter of ten to fifteen seconds, the object reappeared
ahead of us...It moved away from us, turning toward the left and traveling at
what seemed to be great speed. It then disappeared again, and we didn't see it
again...I have never witnessed anything like this." (Thanks to Tim Hagemeister
of NACOMM for this report. And UFO Roundup #14, Joe Trainor editor.

COLORADO

A bicyclist pulled into my place in the Rocky Mountains a while back to report
an aerial object, and I thought I'd pass it along just to see if you have ever
heard of any others like it.  I never have.  She described it as "an airplane
with two tails."  She said that it looked like someone had taken the back half
of a private plane, and joined it to the back half of another plane, so that
what was left was a fuselage with a tail on each end.  But only the vertical
part of the tails; the horizontal stabilizers were missing.  She described it
as floating slowly along in the air at 500 feet. Thanks to: Bob Thrift-
Institute for UFO Research.

DUBLIN, IRELAND

David Martin reports that on April 2, `1998: "I was walking in a area called
Blanchardstown  in Dublin going into the Bell Pub, when I saw a red object
flash across the sky at about 5.00 PM. It stopped and hovered over my head. It
seemed circular in shape. It flew off to the east  in the direction of Raheny.
Dave's address is: 111 Raheny Road,  Dublin 17,  Dublin  Ireland    Thanks to
ISUR�s John Thompson and David Martin.

AUSTRALIA

Kaan Kivilcim on April 8, 1998 observed a UFO wile at the Sutherland Cricket
grounds in Sydney, Australia at 10:23 PM.  The UFO was weird like a fireball
coming through the atmosphere. then it went from a red color to a blue color
then zipped of the coast Thanks to ISUR and Kaan at  mkivilci@fl.net.au

"THE CONTACT HAS BEGUN"

Phillip H. Krapf, The Metro  Desk editor of the Los Angeles Times (ret.), has
written a new book called "The Contact Has Begun."  Krapf claims to have been
contacted by visiting aliens who told him to write this book in June of 1997.
Most journalists are skeptical of stories about UFOs and visitors from space.
This book is important because a key member of the news industry is putting
his reputation on the line telling others we are being visited. Essentially a
peaceful race of extraterrestrials is making contact with Earth's leaders from
an Intergalactic Federation. The editor of the Los Angeles Times is a
skeptical journalist, who with his won acclaim for his coverage of the Los
Angeles riots. He claims to have been taken aboard a craft from another world.
Krapf's claims he was instructed to help other humans accept we are not alone.
Now is the time for us to prepare to enter the Intergalactic Federation of
Sovereign Planets. Important people from all over the world are being
contacted by the extraterrestrials to serve as ambassadors to the human race.
The aliens claim to carry no weapons and are peaceful, promise a new wonderful
world and call themselves, Verdants. Their planet is 14 million light-years
from Earth and is more than twice the size of Earth. They assured him that the
universe is teaming with life and there are hundreds of thousands of inhabited
planets. Dan Smith interviewed Phillip Krapf in California and found him to be
a warm, intelligent person with no apparent mental problems. He certainly
believed his story and assured us that other important people will be speaking
out in the coming years concerning their contact. He claims that he recognized
many important people aboard the space ship who were also undergoing
edification and indoctrination. All have been given a mission to meet with
Earth's leaders and to prepare them for the future summit and contact.  A new
city will be constructed by the extraterrestrials overnight and called,
"Genesis."  Key leaders from all backgrounds will go to Genesis and be trained
to participate in the confederation. The essential message is that they come
in peace, they have discovered the light and they will shine it on our path.
Humanity is on the threshold of rebirth. They will be our shepherd and watch
over us like lambs. The first announcements will come in 2002. The book is
from Hay House Publishers and local stores. Note: This is pretty wild stuff
even for an UFO investigator.

ROMAN CATHOLIC CLERGY

There are a series of recent reports claiming Monsignor Corodio Bolducci,
close to the Pope has proclaimed that extraterrestrial contact is a real
phenomenon. Our contacts in Italy assure us this interpretation of the
Monsignor�s statements is in error and that he does not speak for the Vatican.
However, Whitley Strieber  interviewed Monsignor Corrado Balducci, and
confirmed he is an important Vatican advisor. Whitley states: "Monsignor
Balducci has given me an interview that is going to be published in my new
book Confirmation, and in it he makes statements about the need to stop
fooling ourselves that the contact situation is psychological, and he makes
the point that it is dangerous for Christians to ignore the testimony of
millions if they are to accept the testimony of just a few as the basis of
doctrine. He also discusses his contention that the visitors are not demons,
and mentions that the subject matter is of special interest to the Church and
the Christian community.  Msgr. Balducci told me personally when I asked him
about his relationship to the pope, that he knows the pope and is friendly
with him. When I asked him if the pope was aware of his views on UFOs, he said
that they had not discussed the matter per se, but had talked together about
issues of demonology. Msgr. Balducci as an expert on demonology and has
published on the subject and has been the exorcist for the Archdiocese of
Rome. It is because of his expertise in this field that there is reason for
Christians to regard his views on the question of whether or not the visitors
are demons as an authoritative one.  In the interview I have, he did not
mention anything about Papal nuncios reporting information to the Vatican on a
formal basis, or the existence of a commission to deal with the issue.  He has
personally read and agreed to every detail of the translation, and it is
completely accurate. It will be published as an appendix to Confirmation,
which should be in the stores by April 15.  In the interest of accuracy, I
would very much appreciate your re-posting of this letter to the same list
that has received the previous two posts.  Sincerely yours,  Whitley Strieber
xtrl@worldnet.att.net and   Peter A. Gersten, Esq. Executive Director,
Citizens Against UFO Secrecy, Inc.   CAUS

SHAG HARBOR: It is known that the Roman Catholic Church has an excellent
intelligence system and is well aware that many UFOs are being observed around
the world by its members and priests. Canadian MUFON reports that the role
played by Roman Catholic Father Michael Burke-Geffen in the Shag Harbor UFO
crash is interesting. On the night of  October 4, 1967, shortly after 11:00
PM, a UFO some 60 feet in diameter was seen to disappear into water near the
tiny fishing village of Shag Harbor, Nova Scotia. The UFO displayed four
bright lights that flashed in sequence.  This case was largely unknown before
MUFON's Assistant Director for Nova Scotia Christopher Styles' began working
on the case. His work was phenomenal. He discovered that Father Geffen, now
deceased had two lives, one as a Jesuit priest and cornerstone at St. Mary's
University in Halifax. In addition, he was an astronomer and held a position
with Canada's NRC as a UFO  investigator and government contact person.
Requests from Ottawa can be  found in Canada's RG 77 file calling for the
priest to gather physical  samples from UFO trace cases and Close Encounters
to send to NRC  Headquarters for detailed analysis. Father Geffen claimed to
have no interest in UFOs, but was in fact collecting intelligence on them.
Genuine Royal Canadian Mounted Police  X-files, were  found among his personal
papers. Two of those X-files are replies to Father Geffen from the
superintendent of the Nova Scotia RCMP, assuring the father that he  would
receive UFO reports from southwest Nova Scotia as quickly as was  reasonably
possible. In fact, personal notes in archives from this  period of October
1967 show that he took notes on the details of UFO  sightings given to him
over the telephone, even before they could be  mailed or telexed. Time seemed
to be an important concern for this scientist priest. The Story! Perhaps the
most exciting element of Styles' and Don Ledger's investigation  is the story
of an attempted recovery operation 25 miles up the Nova Scotia coast from the
impact site. Thanks to Canadian MUFON web at:
http://www.renaissoft.com/ufocanada/shag.htm

UNITED KINGDOM AND GEORGIA FLYING TRIANGLES

Almost nightly reports of giant flying triangles continue over the
southeastern coast of England. The reports intimate a craft operating at only
40 to 60 mph. Since most aircraft stall out of the sky below 100 mph, it
infers the witnesses may be viewing a lighter  than air type craft, something
like the Aereon Pumpkinseed design. It would be reasonable to have an Airborne
Warning and Control (AWACs) type craft patrolling the coast at night carrying
a large phased array radar system.  However, it seems logical that someone
would see a large craft lifting off unless it is stationed on some remote
island or guarded peninsula. There could  be a secret base some where near the
North Sea such as on the  Frisian or Sheppey Islands within range of these
sightings? This craft could probably operate without much of a runway. We know
the flying triangles are usually first sighted off the eastern coast of
England coming in from the North Sea. If the craft flies as slow as is
claimed, the West Frisian Islands  seem  to be the most likely base.
Bentwaters or Sculthorpe RAF are other possibilities. This may be the same
craft that operated over Belgium several years ago. Of course if the triangles
are not stationed at any land base, then it might be a craft using an unknown
type base. Some believe the craft performance indicates it is not of human
design. It's strange lighting system seems designed to appear alien and to
appear to accelerate at fantastic speeds.

Tim Matthews writes: "I agree with you that we need to focus our efforts upon
the location from which these things operate. The coast  seems to always play
an important part in these sightings. A couple of  years ago, I included a
Jane's Defence Weekly report in my magazine which  noted the use of "MOBs" --
Mobile Offshore Bases - which were not unlike large and glorified pontoon
bridges.  Although  these could work on a temporary basis I doubt that the
swell  of the North Sea would make for ease of operations. There are
comparatively few sightings this year. Keep up the good work. Yours for sanity
in ufology. Tim Matthews

GEORGIA MUFON investigator, John Thompson writes I thought I would give you my
observations concerning the Flying Black Triangles. The Manchester State
Trooper sighting is the best on the Triangles in Georgia. In June of 1995 the
trooper was driving in Talbot County  on US 80 at around 10 PM near Fort
Benning. As he drove down a hill, he saw a large Black Triangle hovering in
the flats below him. The Triangle pivoted and its three huge orange lights
began pulsating. Suddenly, the UFO started spinning rapidly and shot off to
the northeast at almost instantaneous speed." Total sighting time for seeing
the UFO was only 10 seconds. The Triangle moved nearly an entire mile while
below the patrolman's line of sight. It bothered him so much. He put on his
sirens and pulled the car over in front of him and asked, "Had he seen
anything?" The driver verified he had viewed the UFO and agreed to let the
Trooper record his observations. He taped the description and called it into
his Manchester Patrol Post.  I heard of this story from a LaGrange State
Trooper. Then a MUFON member told me his friend who was a dispatcher at the
Manchester Post had taken the frantic troopers call. By-the-time I caught up
to the Trooper, and despite him having the audio tape of the other witness, he
had become the butt of jokes. He refused to meet with us, but  I ran into him
at his dad's locksmith shop and he confirmed the whole story. The UFO was
"football field size" (300 feet) between each orange light. This was a big
boy! Several more witnesses came forward claiming to see the triangle with
orange lights moving at right angles at what he estimated was several thousand
miles per hour. They stated, "It moved so slow you could walk along with them
until they sped away. Both sightings were also just above their heads so
close-they blocked out the entire sky above them. I have no doubt that some of
these Triangles are of extraterrestrial origin and not of human technology.

SCIENTISTS CLAIM POSSIBLE GIANT FOSSIL ON MARS

Researchers at Glasgow University see strong evidence for Maritian Life. The
experts say a huge rock formation on the planet's surface is probably a giant
fossil created billions of year ago by microbes. The Glasgow team believes
that photographs of the fossil on the white rock -- a 17 km-wide feature in a
giant crater -- are the strongest proof to date of life on the Red Planet.
Professor Mike Russell says he believes the formation was caused by bacteria
whose growth was fueled by the sun and nutrients in the water in a crater
lake. However, he believes that the life forms probably retreated below ground
billions of years ago when conditions became harder and water disappeared from
the surface. "There probably is still life on Mars, but not actually on the
surface. Wherever there is water on a planet there is likely to have been
life. But Mars now has a dry desert surface so there probably is not any life
near the surface," he said. Dr. Russell also believes it possible that the
formation on the white rock could be similar to magnesium-found on Earth,
which were created by micro-bacteria feeding on magnesium, carbon dioxide and
iron and light.  Thanks to BBC's online news service.

Please send your reports and comments to George Filer at Majorstar@aol.com.







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                Re: New-agey drug-types/conspiracy witnesses

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:48:58 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:02:10 -0400
Subject: Re: New-agey drug-types/conspiracy witnesses

>Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:07:22 -0700
>From: "K. Young" <task@fuse.net>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: New-agey drug-types/ conspiracy witnesses

>>Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 20:11:53 -0400
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: SKvs <bradford@globalserve.net> [Sue Kovios]
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: JPL Hiding Colour, Clear Face & Cydonia
>>         Pictures?


>> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 20:11:53 -0400

>> >The loosely rolled package was bumped by 'Kent's' colleague, it
>> >rolled onto the floor and dislodged a colour photograph of...
>> >'The Face' - clear, sharp and taken from almost directly
>> >overhead. There were 8 other photographs, including 'buildings'
>> >viewed from overhead and all dated April 5, 1998.

>> >ebk

>> EBK:

>> I believe the date of the photographs was April 2, 1998.

>> I also find it interesting how alot of the guys interviewed on
>> Art Bell regarding conspiracies all sound alike.

>> Sue Kovios

>Sue;

Hello KY,

>Allow me to furnish a brief, unscientific and admittedly biased
>'editorial comment' on the 'commonality' you mention.

>I have listened to numerous ART BELL programs and hear the 'young
>man between 25-40-type' rant on and on about how our culture will
>'be ravaged' by the truth while I consider the possibilities that
>this person has been warped by some mind-altering drug.

>These societal miscreants profess to be 'vampires,' 'UFO
>abductees' or 'time travelers,' but I suspect a common chemical
>or externally-induced defect among these sorts, a defect that
>effects their mind.

I can't speak for the Vampires or time travelers but on behalf of
those who are experiencing abductions I'd like to offer this.

This whole line of thinking is unfair to many honest folks who
are just seeking answers to disturbing and unsettling experiences
that they cannot explain -any other way.- Whether it is actually
abduction or something else does not justify your accusing them
all of being on drugs. You can't paint them -all- with your
druggie brush in such a public forum and expect to get past me
unscathed Mr KY. <VBG>

I'd respond the same way if you had said that we were all crazy
or hallucinating. No group of people is ever all -anything.- I'll
grant you that there -are- some 'cukoos' and some 'drug abusers'
and probably some of 'everything else,' (including) some sober
and honest people who are simply telling the truth about  what
has happened to them and their loved ones. It's just not fair to
paint em all with the same brush.

Personal question:

Was someone close to you a drug addict? Are you a recovered drug
abuser who got religious about sobriety? Maybe you were fooled or
taken by someone who you later found out was on drugs and now you
see everyone you disagree with as an mind addled addict. I'm not
trying to be insulting, just trying to figure out where your
particular fixation on drugs and your very judgemental attitude
stems from.

>I have some personal experience dealing with several of these
>'druggie- types' from the Cincinnati area who have professed past
>encounters with anomalous/conspiratorial phenomenon, and that
>experience causes me to chuckle everytime one of these imbeciles
>get on ART BELL.

Yeah, those goddam hippie freaks are all on drugs!  Ya gotta
listen to yourself man! <EG>

Don't be so quick to dismiss what you cannot understand KY.
Try to keep an open mind about the phenomenon of abduction and
the people involved in it as well. Like I said, no group of folks
is ever -all- one thing or another. Gotta take em all, . . .one
at a time!

Peace,

John Velez







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                   Re: Alien Encounters Magazine To Close

From: roberti@paragon.co.uk (Robert Irvine)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:21:35 GMT
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:02:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Encounters Magazine To Close

>From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
>Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 23:22:38 +0000
>Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 06:02:05 -0400
>Subject: Alien Encounters Magazine To Close

>Dear Errol,
>
>I just thought you would like to know that the UK publication
>ALIEN ENCOUNTERS, published by Paragon, will be closing down
>after issue 26 in June.

>The magazine's editor, Nina Pendred, informed me today that "
>Unfortunately the paranormal market has been is steep decline in
>the past few months, resulting in many of our competitors falling
>by the wayside. Although the content of ALIEN ENCOUNTERS has
>always been of exceptionally high standard, it has always had
>difficulty finding its market. And in spite of our best efforts,
>the falling sales figures have no longer made it a financially
>viable proposition for Paragon Publishing. Everyone involved with
>the magazine are obviously upset that the magazine is closing
>before its time, and would like to thank you for your
>contribution to ALIEN ENCOUNTERS".

>This more-or-less leaves the UK market open to the Birdsall's UFO
>MAGAZINE and FORTEAN TIMES. Not a pleasant thougt.


>Philip.


Can I just clarify the situation here as Philip's announcement is
a little premature if altogether incorrect.

ALIEN ENCOUNTERS magazine is NOT closing down. We have simply had
a budget cut which means that we are no longer able to commission
work from external contributors, and that all future features
will now be written in-house.

Reports of our death have, as they say, been grossly
exaggerated.

Robert Irvine
Staff Writer
ALIEN ENCOUNTERS








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                       Coming to Turin for the Shroud?

From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.ALPcom.it>
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:53:54 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:02:10 -0400
Subject: Coming to Turin for the Shroud?

Hello List!

If there's anybody on the List planning to come to Turin, Italy,
in order to see the Holy Shroud exposition (from April 18 to June
14), why not inform us locals in advance?

It might well be a welcome occasion for meeting personally, have
a pizza or visit CISU headquarters and files (one of the largest
UFO archives in continental Europe).

Some foreign colleague ufologists already called me with that in
mind, so I thought others might also be interested.


Regards


Edoardo Russo                             Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici
CISU, Casella postale 82, 10100 Torino - tel 011-3290279 - fax 011-545033
http://www.arpnet.it/~ufo          e-mail: edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it







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                       Re: Claims of Erosion - Phooey

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:31:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:02:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Claims of Erosion - Phooey

> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:47:00 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
> From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Claims of Erosion - Phooey

> Remember when Mt. St. Helens in Washington blew its top
> in 1980?  Well, in the video "Mount St. Helens", Dr. Steve
> Austin, a geologist shows just how quickly erosion can
> work.  He has documented the quick formation of multilayers
> of new "geological strata" and the rapid water erosion that
> followed to produce large canyons in just a matter of days
> which were previously thought to take millions of years.

> Frequent violent planet wide dust storms have been seen on
> Mars from even small telescopes on Earth.  Similar storms
> on our planet would not only contribute to rapid erosion
> but would also constantly change the appearance of even
> large surface features from the huge quantity of material
> that was redeposited elsewhere.

It is important to remember that these are dust storms, not
sandstorms.

According to "Mars" (U of AZ, 1992, p 1029), the particle sizes
range between 1 micrometer and a few tens of micrometers, with a
mean diameter near 2 micrometers.

(Maritan Dust Cycle)

p 1031 points out that only small amounts of dust are required to
move in order to explain the observed changes in albedo features.

p 1032 cites a figure of 10^-4 g / cm^2, which represents an
accumulation of a few tenths of a micrometer, is sufficient to
brighten darker areas by several tens of percent. The amount of
dust required to account for the observed atmospheric haze can be
estimated as equivalent to a surface layer of a few micrometers.

(Aeolian Processes)

p 733 indicates that the most easily moved particles are 100
micrometers in diameter, however these particles move on
trajectories averaging 1m length and 10-20 cm in altitude. It
indicates that such particles set the smaller dust particles into
suspension in the air.

According to p 741 dust storms are implicated in
sedimentation. It does not discuss erosion. However,
lander observation of changes in dust distribution at
the landing site showed relatively little change in the
dust, and no change in the rocks.

p 755 indicates that the highest estimated wind erosional rates
on Mars (from laboratory experiments) are 2.1 x 10^-2 cm/yr; this
suggests that various forms of large scale pitting and erosion by
wind, sand, and dust, are extremely long term in generation.

I hope this helps clear up questions raised about erosion
on Mars.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront/
------







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   Apr > Apr 23

                Re: Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel

From: "Diana Botsford" <diana@oznet.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 20:19:26 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:02:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel

>From: fdoernen@ruhrgebiet.net, Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 02:13:03 +0200
>Subject: Fwd: 'Mars Face' Discoverer Throws In The Towel

<snip>

>Vincent DiPietro, the discoverer of the face on mars, has thrown
>in the towel, and said that the face on mars is a pile of rocks.
>He waved the white flag on the Laura Lee show

<snip>

Folks - bottom line, listen to what he has to say on the Laura
Lee show.  He has in no way shape or form 'thrown in the towel'.
He's a scientist and he's sitting on the fence.  The best place
to get a good view, IMHO.

Diana Botsford
Publisher/Host
UFO Forum
http://forums.msn.com/ufo










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               Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:36:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:02:10 -0400
Subject: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs


>Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 18:44:23 -0400
>From: Theresa <Tcarlson1@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>Hi Bruce,

>> One has to allow for the
>>distinct **possibility** that the cameraman would make the
>>logical assumption to the UO would continue to move to the right
>>at the same altitude since it moved steadily to the right before
>>it disappeared.

>Even at the beginning of the sighting the cameraman seems to know
>the direction the object was going to move.  And where it was
>going to come out above the building as well.
>Also logical assumptions?

Huh? Was it going so rapidly that he had to pan ahead of it?
(No). Was the camera perfectly stationary before the UO started
to move to the right, or was the camera jiggling around? (no,
jiggling)

And what would you have the cameraman do in the few seconds it
was behind the building? Immediately start moving the camera
rapidly around the sky, searching for the object, or just wait to
see if it reappears since it was going upward as well as to the
right?

And, if the cameraman knew at the beginning that the UO was going
to go to the right, and if he moved the camera to the right to
keep in step, then why didn't he stop moving the camera to the
right when the UO went behind the second building?   Didn't he
know that it would not appear again?

Bottom line: can't second-guess the cameraman in this regard.

>> Apparently the cameraman did not notice... which
>>is not surprising... that the angular size of the UO was
>>shrinking just before it disappeared... suggesting that it was
>>moving away from the camera.... where it could be lost in the
>>haze..

>Isn't the witness testimony that the object disappear in thin air
>rather than zipped away at high speed?>

Witness testimony not completely documented yet, but at least two
say they last saw it traveling eastward. A couple say they looked
away and when looked back it wasn't there. There is also a report
of a mist around the object.

>You seem to be convinced that this video is the real thing.  What
>do you plan to do with this remarkable evidence?

I'm not convinced of anything yet except that this video deserves
"due process." I must admit to being intrigued at the first  UFO
video I've seen that seems to combine several types of physics or
dynamics. However, these could be created by a sufficiently
inventive hoaxer.....supposing said person thought of it. I have
published some but not all of the information we have gotten from
the video. I'm waiting to see what intentional hoaxers come up
with first.

As for what to do with it....that'll depend upon how well it
holds up to intense scrutiny and how well the witness testimony
holds together. If everything "pans out" I'm sure there will be
more public exposure in th coming months.






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               Strieber terms Boylan a possible disinformation

From: authority@webtv.net (Doc in Phoenix)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 04:33:21 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:02:10 -0400
Subject: Strieber terms Boylan a possible disinformation


"VATICAN ADMITS" story by Dr. Richard Boylan is not true.

Read what WHITLEY STRIEBER says,
    No Vatican commission on UFO's
    Boylan originated false report

Read Whitley Strieber's comments on Jeff Rense's "SIGHTINGS ON
THE RADIO" webpages -- go to:

http:www.sightings.com/ufo/boylandisinf.htm

I certainly thank Edoardo Russo of Italy, Jeff Rense, Whitley
Strieber, and Monsignor Balducci for exposing this exaggerated
and false story posted on newsgroups and on many mail lists on
the net.

== Doc






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                   Re: Alien Encounters Magazine To Close

From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:45:30 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:00:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Encounters Magazine To Close

Dear All,

It would seem that apologies are in order. I mistook some
comments from Nina Pendred at Alien Encounters magazine that the
magazine was to cease.

This is not the case. Nina has outlined further the situation
below. Once again I apologise for getting the wrong end of the
end of the stick.

Philip.



Nina Pendred wrote:

Hi Philip,

Issue 26 will not be the last issue of Alien Encounters - please
amend your posting on the UFO update web site. You have
misinterpreted the situation.

Paragon have merely decided to cut costs by using in-house
freelancers rather than external ones. This budget cut is due to
a slump in the paranormal market. The only other change is that I
will no longer be working on the magazine after issue 25. BUT IT
IS NOT CLOSING AS OF ISSUE 26. Just because Alien is not using
external writers doesn't mean it's closing down!

Your web posting is also misleading - you state that this
information came directly from me. As you know, this is not the
case. It reached you via an email from Stuart Taylor.

Please amend these comments as soon as possible, together with an
explanation of the REAL turn of events.

Best wishes,
Nina


Nina Pendred
Editor
Alien Encounters
Paragon Publishing
UK
Tel: 01202 299900, ext 257








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                 Video on 1965 Kecksburg UFO Crash Released

From: Stan Gordon <PAUFO@WESTOL.COM>
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:28:30 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:52:21 -0400
Subject: Video on 1965 Kecksburg UFO Crash Released

I hope this email finds all of you well at UFO UpDates. I want to
commend you on what you have accomplished. This List provides
excellent information for researchers seeking current news.

You might be aware that I have been investigating the 1965 UFO
crash/recovery incident near Kecksburg, PA for many years.

After many months of hard work, I have produced a 92 minute video
documentary on the case called "Kecksburg The Untold Story." The
video contains a lot of new details about what occurred. It is
available for $29.95 plus shipping and handling and can be
ordered by calling toll free 1-888-UFO-VIEW.

I have recently established a new website which gives more
information on the video. It can be accessed at
www.westol.com/~paufo .

My 24 hour PA UFO Hotline number is still active at (new area
code) 724-838-7768. My mailing address is P.O. Box 936,
Greensburg, PA 15601.

I would appreciate it if you would notify readers about the
video.

Please contact me if you have any questions.

Thanks for your help,

Stan Gordon






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             Re: NASA to Announce Artificial Structures on Mars

From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net>
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 06:52:38 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:03:33 -0400
Subject: Re: NASA to Announce Artificial Structures on Mars

>From: "RISKERS/NUFOIA" <todd@riskers.org>
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>,
>Subject: NASA to Announce Artificial Structures on Mars
>Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:29:46 -0600

>FROM:  Fred Kurros

>According to some of my sources at Lockheed/Martin here in
>Denver, NASA and Malin will soon be announcing that they believe
>that the structure in the new Mars Global Surveyor pictures is
>actually an artificial structure. According to these sources, the
>data and the image itself are nearly a full-blown smoking gun.

>Apparently, yesterday at the Denver Lockheed/Martin location was
>nearly a part-like atmosphere, people running around and saying,
>"...there was life on Mars half a billion years ago!"  Well, now
>they may be right, and NASA is prepared to announce it in the
>next few days.

This is nothing but BS! I am there in the middle of this Mars
mission! My reply is quite the opposite. I think some folks here
are smoking some wacky weed!  That's the only way you'll ever see
anything artificial in Cydonia!

Roger R. Prokic
Telecom Design Lead
Mars Surveyor Program 2001
Lockheed Martin Astronautics
Denver, Colorado USA
-sent from a PalmPilot Professional
-








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                            Alfred's Odd Ode #241

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:40:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:06:06 -0400
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #241

Apology to MW #241 (For April 22, 1998)

They dance and they skip and they pulse behind mesas. They drop
behind roofs of a neighboring home. They cross the night skies
like a star that detaches, their blinking is soundless, and we're
not alone.

We're not alone as we gather possessions; we're not alone as we
squander our trust. We're not alone as we punish the innocence;
thinking that we have to, convinced somehow we must. We're not
alone while the rain forests burn. We're not alone as we wither
and die. We're not alone; we've seen them a' flying in all the
world's countries in their tortured, troubled skies. We're not
alone as we torment ourselves. We're not alone; we are fragile --
forlorn. We're not alone, and affixed with our blinders I'd rip
from our faces with pleasure and scorn!

They dart between buildings in Mexican places! They hover for
shuttles, we've seen them in space, Diz! They've neutered our
nukes at the drop of their hat . . . somebody _knows_, it's as
simple as that!

Somebody knows what it is _we'd_ be knowing. Somebody knows why
the ET's are here. Somebody knows surely more than we're getting
when circumstance is passing strange -- with things so god damned
queer! Somebody knows what the ancients were knowing and shared
in their tablets of clay!
Somebody knows where the secrets are buried that would make a man
autonomous, and a woman not his slave!  Somebody knows why we
suffer and die when the best of all times could be had! Somebody
knows why we hate to look up; why we're shamed, why we're
cowards, why at best we're so damned sad. . .

They land and they leave all the strangest of traces. They
clutter and clog at the sweep of the sky! We find them in ads,
that insult our intelligence, for all of the stuff that we lust
for and buy. We find them on our candy; we find they shill for
cars -- machines that do our washing, from the toy box to the
stars. They float in all our magazines; they sell us junky food.
They're all around; they're surely here; they exist, and they
intrude!

They intrude into our consciousness. They won't leave us alone.
They intrude their own agenda, and they listen on your phone!
They intrude where we won't have them in a sullen white bread
world. They intrude into our emptiness and they prove they will
not yield. They intrude in sullen closets where we think we keep
a secret, and they make a strange notation in their book. Knowing
bodies we've been hiding, they can dig up moldy bones, and they
know just where you'd, likely, never look.

As days go by they're closer still; they will not be denied.
They'll solve our crass indifference; they'll expose what's been
contrived. And you better have your center. You better open up
your mind. You better open up the box in which you keep your soul
confined. The future is a freight train, and we're sitting on the
track, the bonds we feel we've tied ourselves -- c'mon, it's
_all_ a fact!

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

Ain't it? If not here, certainly _somewhere_ in the grand expanse
of that which we cannot even *know* _how_ to know. And that's as
good as _being_ there <g>.  Ain't it?

I think we avoid looking for this stuff because we know if we
look . . . we will find. That's a good implication from
Heisenburg, don't you think? If we observe something for an
occurrence, we will have an occurrence.

Things are spring loaded to happen. Looking into the night sky,
trying to step past the fear of what _could_ be out there, and
attempting a search for a bonified UFO yields some interesting
results. Frankly -- you _see_ UFOs!

Let's start there. Let's look. We're not, really, looking.

Restore John Ford!


--
Explore the Alien View?

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake.







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   Apr > Apr 23

                     Astronomers Find Evidence of Planet

From: RSchatte <RSchatte@aol.com> [Rebecca]
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:57:18 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:57:01 -0400
Subject: Astronomers Find Evidence of Planet

From: AOL News <AOLNews@aol.com>
Return-path: <AOLNews@aol.com>
Subject: Astronomers Find Evidence of Planet
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:47:31 EDT


Astronomers Find Evidence of Planet

.c The Associated Press

 By PAUL RECER

WASHINGTON (AP) - Signs of a new family of planets orbiting a
distant star are the clearest evidence yet of worlds forming
beyond our solar system and suggest that planets where life could
evolve may exist throughout the universe, astronomers say.

Using powerful new instruments on telescopes in Hawaii and Chile,
two teams of astronomers independently found a doughnut-shaped
disk of dust rotating around a star 220 light-years away. A
light-year is about 5.9 trillion miles.

They said at a news conference Tuesday that the hole in the
doughnut may have been caused by the birth of planets.

``A solar system like our own is being constructed in the middle
of this disk,'' said David Koerner of the University of
Pennsylvania. He is a member of an astronomy team that used the
Keck II telescope in Hawaii to study the star.

He said the finding, along with similar discoveries reported this
week in the journal Nature, suggests that planets may be very
common throughout the universe.

``Perhaps there are lots of places for life to exist,'' he said.

Another astronomy team, using the Cerro Tololo Observatory in
Chile, made a confirming observation.

Both teams focused on a star call HR 4796 that earlier studies
had suggested could be at the center of what is called a
protoplanetary disk.

``These disks are thought to be the birthing rooms of planets,''
said NASA astronomer Edward Weiler, head of a space agency
program that is searching for evidence of extrasolar planets and
life.

``We haven't actually detected any planets,'' said Lee Hartmann
of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics and a member
of the Cerro Tololo team. But he said the most likely explanation
for the absence of dust in the hole of the disk is that planets
have formed.

He said new and highly sensitive instruments are allowing
astronomers to move ``from just speculating about planets forming
to actually seeing it.'' Hartmann said that over the next few
years, there will be many new planetary families discovered
outside the solar system.

A new type of infrared detector attached to the Keck and the
Cerro Tololo telescopes, determined that the dust about HR 4796
existed mostly in a thin outer ring and that between this ring
and the star there was an empty cavity. It's believed that this
cavity was carved out by plants that swept up the dust in their
birth process.

A team of American and British astronomers tells this week in the
journal Nature of finding the telltale doughnut holes in dust
disks about three other stars: Vega, Fomalhaut and Beta Pictoris.
These stars are older than HR 4796 and it is believed that
planetary formation there is further along.

As planets form, said the astronomers, they would tend to act
like gravitation vacuum cleaners, sucking up the dust and gas
from areas near their orbits. After all the planets are formed,
only a faint outer ring of dust and gravel is left. Such a ring,
called the Kuiper Belt, exists now around the sun, orbiting
beyond Pluto and Neptune, the outermost planets of the solar
system.

``This may be what our solar system looked like at the end of its
main planetary formation phase,'' said Michael Werner of the Jet
Propulsion Laboratory, who worked with Koerner and two other
astronomers.

He said comets may be forming now in the outer dust ring about HR
4796, just as comets are thought to have formed in the Kuiper
Belt.

The planetary disk orbiting HR 4796 is 18 billion miles across,
while the cleared area, or doughnut hole, is about 9 billion
miles across, slightly larger than the diameter of the solar
system, the astronomers said.

Stars are thought to form from the concentration of a gas and
dust in the center of a cloud. The process causes stars to spin
and the dust left over from stellar construction flattens into a
disk.

Some particles in the disk join, forming a gravitational base
that attracts other particles, which, in turn, increases the
gravitational attraction and draws in still more dust particles.
This growth, or accretion, continues until planets are formed and
most of the orbiting dust is swept up.

The whole planetary process may take a few hundred million years
of a star's 10-billion-year lifetime. As a result, said Hartmann,
there is only a small window of time, relatively speaking, during
which the construction of planets about a specific star can be
observed.

Weiler said astronomy is on the brink of having the instruments
needed to actually see the ``pale blue dots'' of Earth-like
planets orbiting distant stars. Early in the next century, he
said, there will be new telescope systems in orbit that will
actually photograph planets and take measurements of their oxygen
and carbon dioxide, gases that are hallmarks of life.

The National Aeronautics and Space Administration scientist said
the new findings suggest planetary formation is not rare and may
be, in fact, a common thing. This, he said, ``has a lot of
implications for extraterrestrial intelligence.''

AP-NY-04-21-98 1544EDT

Copyright 1997 The Associated Press.






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   Apr > Apr 23

                   The Millennium Report - April 21, 1998

From: psa@direct.ca (Paul Anderson)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:28:41 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:19:38 -0400
Subject: The Millennium Report - April 21, 1998


The Millennium Report
April 21, 1998


The Millennium Report is the weekly on-line news service of The
Millennium Group, an independent future studies research
organization, which provides the latest current information on a
wide range of the most phenomenal, controversial and enigmatic
issues of our time, and their possible implications as we
approach the next Millennium; TMR is an alternative source of
information which is often ignored or sensationalized by the
mainstream and tabloid media.

Editor:
Paul Anderson
psa@direct.ca

______________________________


SPECIAL REPORT
"City" in Cydonia Region of Mars to be Photographed Again
on April 23

Shifted Target Zone to Include "Fort" and Pyramid"
Previous Photo Misses Key Targets

"Ex-JPL Employee" Claims NASA Coverup of Cydonia Photos
Says He was Fired for Seeing "Real" Pictures

New Evidence of Fossil Life on Mars?

1998 Crop Circle Season Begins in England

First "Pictogram" Crop Formation in Israel Appears in Galilee

Meteor Lights up Hawaiian Skies

Citywide Blackout in Argentina Reportedly Caused by UFOs

______________________________


This e-mail notice is a summary of this week's headlines and
major news stories.
Complete report on the TMG web site:
http://mypage.direct.ca/p/psa/

Note: the TMG web site requires a frames-enabled browser,
and TMR is designed for a frames environment; please access
TMR through the main TMG web site for proper viewing.

______________________________


For further information or correspondence, contact:

Paul Anderson

Director
THE MILLENNIUM GROUP
Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue, Vancouver, BC  V6J 1J4
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://mypage.direct.ca/p/psa/

Director
CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA
Affiliate of Circles Phenomenon Research International
Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue, Vancouver, BC  V6J 1J4
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310















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   Apr > Apr 23

              Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update - April

From: psa@direct.ca (Paul Anderson)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:33:49 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:19:29 -0400
Subject: Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update - April


Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update
April 21, 1998

______________________________


1998 Crop Circle Season Begins in England

First "Pictogram" Crop Formation in Israel Appears in Galilee

______________________________

Complete news and reports on the CPR-Canada web site:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310

Note: the CPR-Canada web site requires a frames-enabled
browser

For further information or correspondence, contact:

Paul Anderson

Director
CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA
Affiliate of Circles Phenomenon Research International
Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue, Vancouver, BC  V6J 1J4
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310

Director
THE MILLENNIUM GROUP
Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue, Vancouver, BC  V6J 1J4
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://mypage.direct.ca/p/psa/









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                             Black Triangle UFO

From: Steve Neeley <stneeley@mail.bright.net>
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:12:05 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:56:24 -0400
Subject: Black Triangle UFO

*************
For Posting
*************

_____________


From: "Richard J. La Monica Sr." <saskwatchr@email.msn.com>
To: <stneeley@bright.net>
Subject: Black Triangle UFO
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:44:45 -0400

Hi,

I was checking out the Unusual Research site and came across your
Web site. My compliments to you for a very thorough site.

I want to relate a sighting I and another person had in 1997.

I was training a new driver for a produce delivery route that I
had in West Virginia.  We were about 10 miles or so south of
Marietta, Ohio.  I'd say about six miles from Mineral Wells, W.
Va.

As I was proceeding down the highway(I-77),  my partner yelled
"Look at that!".  He startled me so bad that I almost lost
control of the truck. Anyway, I looked out my window, and to my
total amazement, I witnessed a large, black triangle, heading
eastward just above the hills.

I gathered my senses and pulled the truck to the side of the
road.  We both got out of the truck to look at it.  As I held my
arm straight up and made a fist,  It was about twice the size of
my fist.  If I had a rock, I could have hit it!

I could see plainly, that is had a non-reflective, kind of like
flat-black, surface.  On the bottom of this craft were four
lights.  They looked as if they were on dim.  That is to say,
they did not shine brightly, but were definitely visible.  The
one thing that caught my attention, was that is made no sounds,
what-so-ever.  It just seemed to float.  It was moving so slowly
that I could have out-raced it on foot.

We watched it for at least 10 minutes, then it moved over the
hills, and we lost sight of it.  We got back into the truck and
went south a few miles and I pulled over to see if I could see it
again.  We didn't see anything again that night.

I can say, that what ever it was, didn't appear to be anything
connected to the military, unless it came from Wright-Patt and
was an experimental craft.  My son has many aircraft books and I
did not see anything in them that even came close to what we saw
that night.

It looked like the craft that was seen in Belgium. It had one
red/orange light in the middle and a beige light at each of the
three corners. It was incredible, to say the least. I look at
the sky every chance I get, when I am away from the light
pollution of the bigger cities, and have not seen anything like
that night since.

I will continue to look continually now. I have purchased a
telescope to view the heavens and I hope I will get the chance to
see a UFO up close with it.

Thanks;
Rich La Monica

_____________

Steven J. Neeley, Director
Ohio Skywatch International

http://www.geocities.com/soho/5782

stneeley@bright.net





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              Re: New-agey drug-types/conspiracy witnesses rant

From: Nemesis <nemesis@fastinternet.net.au> [Lawrie Williams]
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:56:02 +1000
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 12:28:28 -0400
Subject: Re: New-agey drug-types/conspiracy witnesses rant

>Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:07:22 -0700
>From: "K. Young" <task@fuse.net>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: New-agey drug-types/ conspiracy witnesses

>> >The loosely rolled package was bumped by 'Kent's' colleague, it
>> >rolled onto the floor and dislodged a colour photograph of...
>> >'The Face' - clear, sharp and taken from almost directly
>> >overhead. There were 8 other photographs, including 'buildings'
>> >viewed from overhead and all dated April 5, 1998.

>I have listened to numerous ART BELL programs and hear the 'young
>man between 25-40-type' rant on and on about how our culture will
>'be ravaged' by the truth while I consider the possibilities that
>this person has been warped by some mind-altering drug.

Quite likely. Some may even be suffering outright psychosis.
BTW I've never heard of a case where the drug alcohol was
not involved. There might be rare exceptions.

Are you suggesting these young men are alcoholics?

Are you trying to warn us not to drink alcohol, or are you trying to
discredit a perceived belief system by saying they are drunkards?

>These societal miscreants profess to be 'vampires,' 'UFO
>abductees' or 'time travelers,' but I suspect a common chemical
>or externally-induced defect among these sorts, a defect that
>effects their mind.

A small percentage of people have untreated mental disorders.
You seem to be suggesting an association between some of
these disorders and a belief system you do not like. The nature
of these disorders could be related to a real external phenomenon
here. There is nothing new under the sun. You are saying folk
who identify as witches should not be respected or tested, just
burned?

>Even from their attitude, way of speaking (vocal styles and
>inflections which sound like they are 'cult-leader wannabeez'),
>comments on society and new-agish tendencies, they exhibit a
>general commonality I have noticed. I feel sympathetic for these
>deluded mental-cases because they could dealing with or suffering
>from a common mental/chemical imbalance.

This is a healthy attitude on your part. Let us hope that as they
mature they learn to use the safer stumulant drugs in moderation
instead of trying to drown their confusion in alcohol, which only
makes them all the more confused and obnoxious.

>I have also considered the possibility that this 'commonality' is
>due to excessive drug use, and conformity/adherence to societal
>expectations of/to the druggie-class.

This is possible.  People behave in really stupid ways when
they get drunk and they strive to encourage others to share
in their patterns of denial and abuse.  One handy way is by
seeking to focus group hatred on some real or imagined
other group, attributing to them a host of vague characteristics
and faults so they can be social scapegoats. In this esteemed
circle that would mean affixing labels like "fraud", "hoaxer",
"hypnotherapist", "sexual", "biased" or "commercial". I hope
I got most of them.

>I have some personal experience dealing with several of these
>'druggie- types' from the Cincinnati area who have professed past
>encounters with anomalous/conspiratorial phenomenon, and that
>experience causes me to chuckle everytime one of these imbeciles
>get on ART BELL.

Yes, a sample of two can sometimes be very meaningful,
e.g. by imparting vital data about anyone who would
rely on such a sampling method..

>These opinionated villains are not on a truth-seeking quest, but
>rather, would seek to lie and justify their falsehood in
>promotion of their cause, and they strive to forevermore
>propogate their fraudulent, drug-induced new-age faith/dogma upon
>the ignorant, who so foolishly accept it without justifiable
>questioning.

There's dickheads everywhere friend, some come in short hair
and some in long hair. Some smoke pot and others prefer booze.
But hair or drug preference or gender or skin color or species
does not make anyone else with these qualities dickheads.

(I am trying to imagine Dr Hoagland with shoulder length hair
and a tie-died shirt passing a bhong to his audience before
returning to the podium.  Never saw anyone who looked so
straight. Or was it straight-faced. I chortled through the video
of his old Face presentation and my new agey lady visitor felt
I had no respect. She was a vegetarian, I recall, and very Pure.)

Heck, if you try to categorize people you would need one
category for every person on the planet.

Now, perhaps you have an opinion about "drugs" and their
effect on telepathy? Be assured that in many cultures past and
present the belief is strong that drugs are essential to tune the
brain to the state where communication becomes possible.
Even alcohol was used!

For ufologists interested in directly contacting UFOs,
knowing this is as basic as being told you need to be
able to hold the pencil against the paper.

How can this be? Seems to me it would be a bit like
tuning a radio, since drugs alter the capacitance of
the synapses in local areas. (Hence opium has its
natural counterpart in the enorphins and cannabis
in the form of the anandamides.) There are many
structures in the brain we know little about, so we
can do no worse than to simply follow the methods
that ae old but tried and true and document the results.
As I shall continue to do.

Has anyone else got a view on this?

All the best.

Nemesis____________________







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   Apr > Apr 23

                        ICQ UFO Group - #UFO_IRC@ICQ

From: Floyd <floyd@enterprise.net> [Lloyd WA Cosway]
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:53:03 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 12:34:40 -0400
Subject: ICQ UFO Group - #UFO_IRC@ICQ

UFO INTERNET COMMUNITY PLEASE NOTE

I have set up an ICQ group for the use of the Internet community.
For people who allready use ICQ, you can view, and join, at the
following address:

http://groups.icq.com/group.asp?no=23908

Remember to include your town/city and country

Unaware of what ICQ is or does, check here:

http://www.icq.com/icqme.html


The ICQ98a (latest release) Software is still available as a "TIME LIMITED FREE"
 beta release from this address:

http://www.icq.com/downloadicq.html

You will need your password to set up your account on the group
page, if you have forgot your password you can obtain it from
here, takes about a week to be processed.

http://www.mirabilis.com/password/


Finally and perhaps most importantly

Thanks for getting this far :)

For people who have used early versions of ICQ but deleted it for
obvious reasons you will be surprised with what has been done
with ICQ.

Please forward this mail to other lists, thanks.

regards

pathFINDR/floyd








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   Apr > Apr 24

                   Chamish's Latest on Israel Crop Circle

From: "MIKE SPITZER aka, HeNayNei" <mrufomn@aztec.asu.edu>
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:07:38 -0700 (MST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:41:24 -0400
Subject: Chamish's Latest on Israel Crop Circle



=================================================================
  FROM THE DESK OF:                    <HeNayNei@DeathsDoor.com>
                       *Mike Spitzer*    <Mikes@TheOffice.net>
                                          <Mikes@TheGym.net>

        "Kaddosh, Kaddosh, Kaddosh, Adanai, Saveothe!"
      KADDOSH, KADDOSH, KADDOSH, YHVH, TZEVAOT TZEVAOT!!
                           -----
   Dear Lord, Please Help Me Be The Person My Dog Thinks I Am.
                            ***
 "A Man Meant For Hanging Needn't Fear Drowning"  -Twain, maybe?
=================================================================



P.S. I'LL BE GOING INTO COMBAT SOON so say a prayer for me and,
         "Yo, Tell my girl, I be gone to November...
               and, give a kiss to my mother."


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 04:22:09 -0700 (MST)
From: "MIKE SPITZER aka, HeNayNei" <mrufomn@aztec.asu.edu>
To: iufo@world.std.com
Subject: Chamish's latest on Israel Crop Circle (fwd)
=================================================================

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 12:26:25 +0300 (IDT)
From: barry chamish <chamish@mail.netvision.net.il>
To: mrufomn@aztec.asu.edu
Subject: Israel circle

Here's the latest report. I'm working on getting everything
tested. Hope this helps a bit.

Best, Barry



                 ISRAELI CROP CIRCLE UPDATE by Barry Chamish

The Israeli crop circle, the country's first ever alien
pictograph is turning into a most important event with
international significance. Following is the story as it stands
now.

On the evening of April 12, a resident of the Jezreel Valley Arab
village of Zarzir heard dogs bark wildly, looked outside and saw
small lights darting in a nearby wheat field. The next day he
told his friend Golan Masrin (30) about the incident and he went
to the field, thus discovering the crop circle.

Compared to those of Southern England, the circle is a simple
design. It is a half circle of 26 meters diameter with a 26 meter
straight line disecting it from within, creating two quarter
circles of wheat. The effect is a picture similar to an
umbrella.

Within the circle were seven round pods in the mud. All
vegetation within was killed and the ground was severely
dessicated compared to the surrounding soil. In four of the pods,
the soil was coated in a white powder, while in the other three
pods there was a red oily fluid. Where the fluid fell on wheat
stalks, the plants turned brown compared to healthy plants in the
field. Yet even in the field just beyond the circle, some wheat
stalks were missing their heads and they could not be located
beside the plants.

Young ufologist Gil Bar painstakingly collected the powder and
oil from the earth and stored them in vials. I took chemist, Dr.
Marvin Antleman to see Bar's samples and his first reaction to
the oil was that it had the unique crimson color of cobalt. He is
attempting to arrange laboratory testing.

I have sent samples of both the powder and fluid to Michael
Hesemann for testing. I will offer the same material to any other
party willing to conduct serious laboratory testing.





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             Re: NASA to Announce Artificial Structures on Mars

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:49:40 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:42:47 -0400
Subject: Re: NASA to Announce Artificial Structures on Mars

>Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 06:52:38 -0500
>From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: NASA to Announce Artificial Structures on Mars

>This is nothing but BS! I am there in the middle of this Mars
>mission! My reply is quite the opposite. I think some folks here
>are smoking some wacky weed!  That's the only way you'll ever see
>anything artificial in Cydonia!

>Roger R. Prokic
>Telecom Design Lead
>Mars Surveyor Program 2001
>Lockheed Martin Astronautics
>Denver, Colorado USA
>-sent from a PalmPilot Professional


Roger,

What's the point?  No matter how much you tell people the truth,
which is that there is absolutely nothing in these photos even
hinting at artificiality, they are not going to listen.

This is religion, man, not science.

Bob








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                           Re: Strieber on Boylan

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:55:09 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:45:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Strieber on Boylan

>From: authority@webtv.net (Doc in Phoenix)
>Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 04:33:21 -0700
>To: Updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Whitley Strieber terms Boylan a possible disinformation agent


>"VATICAN ADMITS" story by Dr. Richard Boylan is not true.

>Read what WHITLEY STRIEBER says,
>    No Vatican commission on UFO's
>    Boylan originated false report

>Read Whitley Strieber's comments on Jeff Rense's "SIGHTINGS ON
>THE RADIO" webpages -- go to:

>http:www.sightings.com/ufo/boylandisinf.htm

>I certainly thank Edoardo Russo of Italy, Jeff Rense, Whitley
>Strieber, and Monsignor Balducci for exposing this exaggerated
>and false story posted on newsgroups and on many mail lists on
>the net.

>== Doc

Hi Doc, hi All,

Let me just say,  . . .Whaaaaat? Just a week ago Strieber was
posting elaborate 'endorsements' of Balducci and using Boylan as
some kind of authority and -now- he's being lauded as a hero who
"exposed" Balducci and Boylan! Am I caught in an old Twilight
Zone episode or did I miss something?

The -only one- (if anyone) who deserves "credit" for exposing
Balducci is Edoardo Russo! He has been posting since the first
appearance of the "Vatican post" and filling us in on what the
real deal is with Monsignor Loose Cannon Balducci.

Just one week ago I wrote a scathing response to Striebers
"endorsement" post about Boylan and Balducci, (does anybody
else remember Striebers post?) What has changed so
dramatically since then Doc? Why is Strieber now the one
who "exposed" Balducci and Boylan? Schizy stuff man!
Please fill me in.

Confused.

John Velez






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                         Future Events News Service

From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:12:23 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:52:04 -0400
Subject: Future Events News Service

Dear colleagues,

You might be interested to know of a news service here in the UK
that can help place information direct to many different types of
news media around the world.

I was contacted today by Hilary Osborne of Future Events News
Service.

She is looking for any information on events, surveys or reports
on the subject of UFOs. Hilary is the UK Editor for Future Events
News Service, a news organisation that provides a series of
weekly rolling diaries of forthcoming news events to major news
organisations such at the BBC, CBS, ITN, New York Times, Le
Figaro, France 2 TV, The Times, The Guardian, The Sunday Times,
Sky Television and many more.

Hilary is looking to be added to mailing lists and you can
contact her at:

Future Events News Service,
FENS house,
8-10 Wiseton Road,
London, SW17 7EE.
tele: 0181 672 3191.
Fax: 0181 672 2282.
E-mail: uk@fens.demon.co.uk

All the best,


Philip.







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              CUFORG 1998 UFO Conference Guest Speakers Wanted

From: crow@crowman.demon.co.uk (Raine & Crow)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 23:33:22 GMT
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:48:14 -0400
Subject: CUFORG 1998 UFO Conference Guest Speakers Wanted

CUFORG (Cornwall UFO Research Group), England are organising
their second annual UFO conference on Saturday 29th August 1998.
It is to be a one day event held in the city of Truro, in
Cornwall, South West England.

CUFORG is three years old and run by Dave Gillham and several
other committee members, it concentrates on investigating ufo
sightings/phenomena and holds regular monthly meetings with some
50-70 members.

CUFORG would like to know if there are any ufo
researchers/investigators/conference speakers that would be
interested in speaking at the conference on their particular
interest/subject.

 As they are a non profit making group on a limited budget, they
are unfortunately unable to fund any flights over to this
country.  But are hoping that any potential speakers who may
already be in the UK on vacation or attending other conferences
and who have that date free, would like to attend the conference.


Obviously any costs incurred would be reimbursed and any fees
wanted paid, of course, within reason.

The conference held last year was a two day event and attracted
over 300 people, with speakers Nick Pope Ex Ministry of Defence
Air Staff 2(a), Marcus Allen 'NEXUS' magazine, Roy Lake London
UFO Studies Chairman, David Icke Author and TV Personality,
Robert LaMont Forensic Hypnotherapist, Andy Thomas Crop Circle
Researcher, Pauline Delcous-Min Regression Therapist, Terry
Walters Contactee.

This years conference will run from approximately 10am til 8pm
and have several speakers, some of which are provisionally
booked.  The location will be on the outskirts of Truro city,
with easy access and plenty of free parking.

If you are interested, could you please contact CUFORG via email

 cuforg@crowman.demon.co.uk

Or contact Dave Gillham direct:

24. Carrine Road,
Truro,
Cornwall.
TR1 3KB.
(+44) 01872 276381

Thanks.








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             Re: What Congress heard at CSETI's UFO/ET Briefings

From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com> [Robert Gates]
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 19:04:51 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:54:59 -0400
Subject: Re: What Congress heard at CSETI's UFO/ET Briefings

>Subj: What Congress heard at CSETI's UFO/ET Briefings
>Date: 98-04-23 12:32:58 EDT
>From: webmaster@cseti.org (Tony Craddock)
>To:    webmaster@cseti.org

>On the one-year Anniversary of CSETI's historic briefing of
>Congress on April 9th, 1997 by Military and Intelligence
>witnesses as to the extent of the UFO coverup, we have summarized
>some of their testimony (with photos) on a new page on the CSETI
>Website.

The witnesses were interesting, but from the point of view of a
person that has been around the UFO community for 25-30 years we
have had those kind of witnesses all along.

Even with those witnesses, we still (as has happened so many
times in the past) have not been able to "interest" Congress in
hearings. The congress people pay lip service to you in person,
ooh, and awe as you are telling them your story, then the instant
you walk out of their office they do the same thing with the next
"special interest group" that comes along.

If you have been following the news you may have seen where a
"kid" has been able to do what the crew members of the WW-2 ship
the USS Indianapolis haven't been able to for the past 40 years:
get Congress to introduce a bill which wipes clean the record of
the Captain of the USS Indianapolis.

Why you say is the kid so successful and we are not?  Simply
because he is a kid, it is "a homegrown effort" and in front of
TV cameras no Congress person in their right mind is going to get
caught telling a kid no, or later showing no support for the kids
cause, especially during an election year.  Not to mention the
fact that supporting the kid will not cause the congressional
folks any kind of political "damage."

I suspect that all those committee chairpeople CSETI visited will
be far more interested in holding a hearing for the kids cause
THIS YEAR then they ever will to a subject that is spurned by so
called main stream science, and an issue that their opposition
could use against them during the Congressional elections.

Sadly, this is the way the Washington two step goes.

>  Just follow the Link from the What's New Section.

>Of interest also are the CSETI Website visits by the
>Executive Office of the President USA.

Like Chris OBrien, I tend to believe the mundane explaination at
first glance:  Just a bunch of lazy bureaucrats surfing the web
on taxpayers time.


Cheers,
Robert





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                            Latest Cydonia photos

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:55:23 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:48:36 -0400
Subject: Latest Cydonia photos

Linda Howe phoned me this afternoon to tell me that the latest
Cydonia photos were up on Michael Malin's site
(http://www.msss.com) and that I should take a look. I was
working in the studio when she called, and only just got loose to
come to the computer.

Well, I'll be hornswaggled, there's a damned pyramid in the lower
half of this one!!!  At least it looks like one at first glance.

I followed the link from Malin's site to JPLs and downloaded the
BIG file.  On magnification, the apparent regularity of the
"pyramid" dissolves into irregularity, and it takes on the
appearance of a hill surrounded by sand dunes.  Drat!

I still have not found the "half buried pyramid" people kept
saying they were seeing in the previous image, and no one
responded to my request to point out just where it was.

So, I still don't think we have found the elusive "city".

I'm off Sunday on a magazine assignment in Europe and will be off
line for a couple of weeks.  If someone could tell me where that
bloody "half buried pyramid" is, I'd appreciate it.

Bob Shell
Certified Pyramidiot








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                           Re: Strieber on Boylan

From: authority@webtv.net (Doc in Phoenix)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:28:06 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:12:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Strieber on Boylan


Dear John Velez,

As was mentioned in the previous post that you included with your
message, all the credit for exposing the exaggeration of Dr.
Boylan's "Vatican Admits" story goes to Edoardo Russo.

Edoardo Russo held a 40 minute interview with Monsignor Balducci
about this matter, and he also contacted Whitley Strieber
concerning the real facts.

Meanwhile, Richard Boylan, Ph.D., posted his reply to this
exposure on the IUFO mail list and again called Edoardo Russo a
debunker. Boylan is sticking by his original story which is
exaggerated nonsense. The Vatican admitted nothing. Father
Balducci is not a voice for the Vatican and no Vatican committee
exists for study of UFOs. The original Boylan story is bovine
excrement.

Doc Barry
DocBarry@ufology.net





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                   Report of UFOs as NASA Launches Rockets

From: "Ben Field" <ben@abcfield.force9.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:17:45 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:10:58 -0400
Subject: Report of UFOs as NASA Launches Rockets

Hi!

I thought some of you may find this interesting. It was reported
to me on April 21, 1998.

All the best

Ben
B.U.F.O.D.
http://www.abcfield.force9.co.uk

-------Start of report-------

First name: A very reliable person
Age: 44
Occupation: retired (armed forces)

Month sighting took place: March
Day (date): early
Day sighting took place: Not known
Year sighting took place: 1998

Country: Puerto Rico
Nearest town: MANATI
Time sighting took place: 2000hrs

Circumstances of the sighting/experience:
It started when the local news announced the NASA project. Then I
started looking at every rocket take off. Imediately after the
first night that's when all sightings began to appear.

Description of area where sighting took place:
On early march 1998 at an old air landing strip, near the town of
Manati (north side of Puerto Rico) NASA was launching different
types of rockets. Many people were watching the rockets, during
that time strange lights started appearing on the night skies.

As days went by more sightings occurred, more people started
reporting these, the personnel in charge of this project became
more aggravated and requested local police security. They also had
private security. This location is about 20 miles from one of the
largest radars on earth (Arecibo observatory). Look I saw plenty
of unknown flying objects,and still to this day you can see that
what's going on here is very serious. What concerns me the most is
all the activity going on around that area. As soon as area 51 was
put on front page,all kinds of secret activity related to NASA
and another branch of the gov. became more frequently. Im just
writing this because the sightings are spectacular. Someone should
take a look at this.

The UFO was sighted for Minutes: 40min

Did anyone else witness the sighting ?: Yes
relationship of witness: MANY UNKNONW PEOPLE

Was any photographic record made at the time?: No

The height the UFO was from the ground was about: 200ft

(Weather and Conditions) - Darkness
(Weather and Conditions) - Calm
(Weather and Conditions) - Clear
(Weather and Conditions) - Dry

The UFO was sighted in or near: an air route
The UFO was sighted in or near: a Military Airfield Establishment









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                 Does Munck Apply A Computational Calculus?

From: Milamo <Milamo@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:40:23 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:45:39 -0400
Subject: Does Munck Apply A Computational Calculus?

This is in response to a post by Jeff Glickman on the
mars_updates mailing list.

Again ... thank-you, Jeff.

Michael L. Morton

From: Milamo <Milamo@aol.com>
To: mars_updates@world.std.com
Subject: Re: Does Munck apply a computational calculus?
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:19:46 EDT

Thanks, Jeff ....


OK ... I'll talk about Munck's numbers for 'The Face' @ Cydonia
and its longitude position relative-to 'The D&M Pyramid' here, as
well as looking at The Old Man Of The Mountain in New Hampshire,
USA. (And more, as well).

Jeff is asking about the 'rules/procedures' for computing or
determining the Grid Point Values, etc. Of course. Yes, there are
general rules /procedures ... but, yes .... there are exceptions
.... but the exceptions MAKE SENSE! And, you can 'be on the
alert' for them after you learn a little bit about them .... and
'The Face' @ Cydonia is an example of one of these 'exceptions'.
Remember ... the mapping for the part of Cydonia where 'The Face'
and 'The D&M Pyramid' are located, was done by a professional
cartographer who has been employed by the Defense Mapping Agency.
So, we know the latitude/longitude numbers there are correct. And
where is the ancient Prime Meridian for longitude on Mars ? It
runs right through the center of 'The D&M Pyramid' ... just as
The Great Pyramid was the ancient marker for Prime Meridian on
Earth.

In general, a Grid Longitude is calculated by a site's (centered)
number of longitude degrees  x  minutes  x  seconds. For sites to
the west of Greenwich, England (if you are using W.Greenwich
longitude), we add on 31 deg + 08 min  + 0.8 sec to the
W.Greenwich longitude .... to adjust to W.Giza longitude.
Longitude is measured east and west from the meridian running
through the center of The Great Pyramid. Of course, it 'works'
for E.Giza longitude, too. In general, Grid Latitudes are
calculated the same way ... a site's (centered) number of degrees
 x minutes  x  seconds. A Grid Point Value is found by
calculating the exact ratio of Grid Longitude to Grid Latitude
... larger number ALWAYS over smaller number.

Now .... sometimes there is "less than one" degree, and/or
minute, and/or second involved in the latitude or longitude
siting. In these situations, there can be a number of solutions.
The one that "makes the most sense" ... in terms of its numbers
in relation to other sites in this matrix ... will be the
solution. You need to 'learn' this matrix in order to "know"
this. You CAN learn this and know this. It was designed to be
learned and known by ANYONE capable of self-referential
awareness.

Now, the 'Old Man Of The Mountain'. This site is a carved
'profile' in rock. Because this is not a 'full face or head' ...
does that mean it is not carved? No. It is definitely in this
matrix .... and it certainly was put there intentionally by high
intelligence (and high technology). Grid Longitude  102 deg  x 49
min  x  2.977793679 sec  =  14883.01281 W.Giza = 480  x  (Pi
Cubed) Grid Latitude   44 deg  x  09 min  x  38.84400782 sec  =
15382.2271 North =  16  x (Pi Cubed)  x (Pi Cubed) Grid Point
Value   15382.2271 / 14883.01281  =  1.033542556

Some people say that you can only see the 'profile' from the
north .... when you move a half-mile or so, it 'disappears'. Does
this invalidate this site as an important node in this matrix ? I
think not .... due to much more 'evidence' here to follow.

Munck has discovered that there are other human-like 'faces' as
'nodes' in this matrix, in addition to 'The Face' @ Cydonia.
There is another 'profile'; seen from aerial view ... near
Poverty Point, Louisiana. This one is very large, and can only be
recognized from above ! The grid point here is centered on the
"eye" of the face profile ... a mound called "Motley Mound". Grid
Longitude  122 deg  x  32 min  x  15.85026687 sec  =  61879.44187
W.Giza  =  1080  x  RADIAN deg (Note : Radius of our Moon is 1080
statute miles) Grid Latitude  32 deg  x  39 min  x  25.96153846
sec  =  32400  North =  Square of 180 =  (Pi x RADIAN deg)
Squared Grid Point Value  61879.44187 / 32400  =  1.909859317 In
Peru, there is a huge full-head sculpture in rock at Marcahuasi,
also a node in this matrix. Grid Longitude  107 deg  x  43 min  x
 19.40840618 sec  =  89298.07684  W.Giza  =  2880  x  (Pi Cubed)
=  Grid Latitude of The Great Pyramid Grid Latitude  11 deg  x
46 min  x  47.3290186 sec  =  23948.48341  South =
[(1.909859317) Squared  / Pi]  x  (RADIAN deg)  x  360 (Note :
1.909859317 is Grid Point Value of the "eye" mound ... 'Motley
Mound'at the Poverty Point, Louisiana face profile).Grid Point
Value  89298.07684 / 23948.48341  =  3.72875707

Now, 'The Face' @ Cydonia .... Grid Longitude  06.890283706 min
E.Cydonia  .... so, here we have a case where the position of a
site is less than a degree to the East of the Martian Prime
Meridian. Obviously, if we use zero as a term, everything
'zeroes-out', so we can't use the general procedure for
calculating a Grid Longitude here.It turns out that because Munck
was very familiar with this matrix ... having re-discovered it
.... he was able to recognize a "pi-multiplex" here .... three
terms, multiplied, involving basic fractions of Pi ....  (2Pi /
3)  x  (Pi / 3)  x  Pi So, in this case, the Grid Longitude of
'The Face' @ Cydonia is its actual longitude E.Cydonia. Grid
Latitude  41 deg  x  11 min  x  10.03080581 sec  =  4523.893421
North =  1440  x  Pi Grid Point Value  4523.893421 / 6.890283706
=  656.56127  =  (36 /Pi)  x  RADIAN deg

We have now described four kinds of 'faces' .... three on Earth
and one on Mars. It is very interesting, to say the least ...
:-)  ... how these are related to one another.

Recall from above, the Grid Latitude of the Old Man Of The
Mountain ....15382.2271  North. If we divide that figure by the
Grid Point Values of the faces/heads at Marcahuasi and Cydonia,
we get a familiar constant .... (15382.2271) / (3.72875707) /
(656.56127)   =   6.283185307   = 2Pi There are 2Pi Radians ...
2Pi  x  RADIAN deg ... on the circumference of any true circle or
sphere.

If we multiply the Marcahuasi face/head times 'The Face' @
Cydonia .... we get
the Grid Point Value of The Great Pyramid TIMES the Square of Pi
.... 3.72875707  x  656.56127   =   2448.157478 =   248.0502134
x  (Pi Squared) If we multiply the Grid Point Values of the Old
Man Of The Mountain, Motley Mound, and 'The Face' @ Cydonia, we
get the Square of the number 36 .... 1.033542556  x  1.909859317
x  656.56127   =   1296

As Munck points out, these are THREE faces 'showing' us a
'product' of 1296. So, if we divide 1296 by 3, we get 432 .... a
number which means "consecration" in the ancient lost science of
Gematria.

As I've said in earlier posts to this list, the people behind the
Cover-Ups can give us 'bogus, doctored, mutilated' images from
MGS .... but they CANNOT take away the precise LOCATIONS ... the
actual Grid Points ... of 'The Face' @ Cydonia and 'The D&M
Pyramid'. We have the 1976 Viking photos already analyzed and
documented. We already HAVE the PROOF !!! In fact, every time
they 'doctor' or otherwise attempt to obfuscate an image, they
are only further incriminating themselves.

Michael Lawrence Morton





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             Chat with Tony Ortega, Phoenix New Times Journalist

From: "Yvonne Hedenland" <vonni_h@email.msn.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 09:33:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:01:44 -0400
Subject: Chat with Tony Ortega, Phoenix New Times Journalist

Join the UFO Forum and journalist Tony Ortega, Author of
the controversial article "The Hack & the Quack"  in which
he has investigated issues surrounding the Phoenix Lights
of March 13, 1997,  as well as the current Frances
Barwood campaign and it's use of the UFO platform.

The chat is available at http://forums.msn.com/ufo
on Sunday, April 26th at 7pm, Pacific Time.

The Briefing Room chat can also be accessed by any
IRC client. The chat server name is publicchat.msn.com
and the room or channel name is #briefing.

The Netshow Audio interview with Tony Ortega is now
posted on the UFO Forum as well.










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                              Filer's Files #16

From: Majorstar <Majorstar@aol.com> [George Filer]
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:09:04 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:27:22 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #16

Filer's Files #16-1998  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer:  MUFON Eastern Director,
April  24, 1998  Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020

Numerous sightings around US continue.  Start searching the
skies, its fun.

Peter Davenport from the UFO Reporting Center phoned and stated
they had received UFO reports from all over the United States on
Monday and Tuesday nights, April 20 &21, 1998. Reports were
coming in from Phoenix, Arizona, Martinsburg, West Virginia,
Austin and Houston, Texas, Boise, Idaho, Portland, Oregon  and
the Fresno and Palmdale, California. The reports are mixed
between lights and actual craft being sighted.  A woman in
Martinsburg, WV reportedly video taped a craft and was sending
it.  Tower operators at Edwards Air Force Base also reported
strange craft near their base.  Thanks to the UFO Reporting
Center and Peter Davenport.

SEARCHING FOR UFOs

Many investigators complain I have not called them to put them in
touch with witnesses who have had a sighting.  Frankly, we do not
have enough cases to go around for the thousands of
investigators.  However, we have found that a little
investigation in your area will turn up numerous reports.  Also
if you notify your local newspaper about your talents they are
usually willing to run a story.  Then people read the story and
will tend to call you.  If your like John Thompson in LaGrange,
Georgia he put a sign in the window of his insurance business and
dozens came to tell about their sightings.  John was recently
asked where to find UFOs in his area.  John stated,  I would try
any of the accesses on the Corp of Engineer sites at West  Point
Lake.  The extreme northern part of Troup County and South Heard
County is the hottest area.  But UFOs have been seen  on other
parts of the Lake south of there.
Brushy Creek access on Bevis Road between Hwy. 219 and Franklin
would be good.
On  getting near the Chattahoochee River that is a good spot
where we have had several sightings.

The fact is that lakes, rivers and bays seem to be some of
favorite places for UFOs.  They are often found near water.
Frequently, they are seen leaving or entering the water or just
trolling above the water.  If you have a vista or outlook where
you can see several miles your chance of spotting a UFO is much
improved.  Once you have located a good view of the surrounding
countryside start out by learning the local air traffic.  In most
cases these aircraft will fly by in a few seconds.  However, if
you notice a craft loitering in the area flying lower and slower
than is normal, it�s a good chance it might be a UFO.  There is
another group that flies so fast they are hard to pick up.  A
good video camera helps slow down these quick ones.  The new
digital cameras also show promise. Now, there are often people
who live in the area and know what is happening.  I encourage you
to talk to postal workers, fisherman, police, delivery personnel,
and those who live in the vicinity.  If there are no large bodies
of water in your area the next most likely place to see UFOs is
around interesting geological formations like Bald Mountain. It
is probably the biggest piece of exposed  granite in Alabama.
They seem to like valleys, volcanoes, continental plates,
interesting mountains, even old historic and religious sites. My
own first sighting was chasing one for the Air Force near
Stonehenge in England.  They also seem to like to examine our
military and nuclear facilities. They are often sighted near our
bases.  If you see one hovering over a local base, don�t be
surprised if they don�t see it, or at least will not admit to
seeing it.  I challenge those skeptical scientists to do a little
scientific research and see what they find.

WENONAH, NEW JERSEY:

Lisa Carpenter, 23 was driving home at 0035 AM on April 20, about
ten miles south of the Philadelphia Airport not far from the
Delaware River. It was an overcast dark sky with a low hanging
cloud cover.  Suddenly she saw four very bright lights shining
down from above. Two lights were the color of green traffic
signals and two were white lights. All the lights were brighter
than standard aircraft landing lights. That in itself seemed very
unusual, but as she drove along they seemed to hover above and in
the general vicinity of her car. The UFO came and moved from a
position in front of her car to a position near her left driver�s
window.  Lisa described the lights as being very big and coming
as close to her as a hundred yards.  This didn�t seem like any
normal aircraft.  She could hear no sound above the softly
playing music on the car radio.  She became alarmed.  She drove
70 mph to escape from the object.  This craft seemed to be
chasing her.  She was very frightened sped up to her house and
ran inside.  Her boyfriend called the police and they came and
talked to her.  One reasonable explanation was a helicopter with
four brilliant lights, but she could not hear any noise.  She is
emotionally shaken by the UFO and stated: "I was so scared I
could barely get her key in the door!"

Jeremiah Paul Steffen, also from Wenonah, reports a similar
sighting of a UFO several hours after the previous sighting
through E-mail.  He wrote that on April 20, 1998, my brother�s
girlfriend was driving home at 2:30 AM this morning.  She
encountered an object hovering above her car.  Her home is about
1 mile from ours.  She called us as soon as she got home.  She
was hyperventilating and extremely upset when she called.  That
is why I believe she was telling the truth.  Note: It's possible
this is confirmation of the first report with a two hour time
difference. The phone number: 609-384-5931 given to us has not
answered.

A LETTER CONCERNING SHERMAN�s  HUGE NEW JERSEY UFO.

Glen Scheper writes, "I just read the Sam Sherman�s Old Bridge,
NJ  sighting from Filer's Files #15-1998.  I wanted to let you
know that Sam's sighting is like mine."
<<At arm's length, it appeared to be about three to four inches
long and tubular in shape. The color was white, but with
luminescent color overlaid greenish-blue tinge. As the sun
appeared to be behind it, the object did not appear to be
reflecting the sun's rays, but instead produced its own bright
illumination. This long tubular bright object was moving to the
north and threading its way in the clouds. It eventually was lost
behind a dark cloud to the north. ..The object was canted at 100
degrees from the ground. (Correction it was canted at 10
degrees)>> Glen states: "This sounds as if it is 100% identical
in appearance and as to that evening storm condition as in my
1982 sighting, which I have written up and thoroughly illustrated
at the following URL:
http://www.gentech.com/~employee/glenn/sighting.htm." Yours
truly, Glenn Scheper gscheper@gentech.com.

NORTH CAROLINA

Stefan Duncan, from AUFON reports on his continuing sightings at
High Rock Lake in the Piedmount Plateau.  Upon reviewing the
April 13/14th video of UFO, we can barely detect a triangular
shape with a centered red circle of light in the bottom.  There
are two bright beams coming from the frontal edge.  This craft
continues down the northern side of the lake heading west.
Suddenly, flickers of light -- strobe staccato style, appear
behind the object and above it. Slow motion of the film shows
the flicker of light coming from the triangular craft and a
second flicker coming several length sizes away.  This second
object continues flight northward as the triangular craft goes
west.

April 20, 1998, at 9:30 p.m., Stefan Duncan states, "Soon as I
position myself and look toward the eastern end of the lake from
Panter�s Point -- I see my reddish UFO!  It is similar to the
object  I had seen on April 2nd, an object whose light was a
non-blinking reddish/white and gave a glow like the shape of
Saturn if the rings were seen edge on.  The tape in video camera
jams.  This craft was perhaps a mile further down the lake shore
line.  It was much smaller because of distance than the April 2nd
sighting.  This object rose from the treetops and hovered for
about five minutes and descended.  Video camera is working again.
 No other electronic disturbances are apparent.
Surrounding lights appear unaffected.  At 10:00 p.m. the object
rises from the treetops, but just to the top of the trees and
goes no higher.  It stays in this position for about two minutes
before descending again.  The tape in video camera jams.  At
10:14 p.m., the object rises a third time, but just over the
treetops.  It brightens, then goes back to normal glow.  After
two minutes, it descends.  At its nearest point to us, the
craft's shape can hardly be detected, but upon freezing the
frame, it appears now to have a faint black triangular shape.
Underneath and centered is a red light.  Beyond the shoreline
where I have observed the UFOs is the Uwharrie Mountains." Thanks
to Stefan Duncan and read the entire text at
http://www.aufon.com.

DALLAS, TEXAS

On Sunday, April 12, 1998, at 11:00 a.m., a U.S. Air Force
veteran, Mike H., and his family were driving north on Interstate
Highway 35 northwest of Dallas, Texas.  As he drove through the
suburb of Farmers Branch, Mike reported, "I spotted a black
round-shaped UFO flying very fast and just below the clouds.  The
object looked quite small to me, less than the size of a pencil
held at arm's length.  But due to the height, even a large object
would look small." At first Mike said nothing to his family,
wondering if the object might be a bird, but then he realized
that "it was flying much too fast" to be a bird.  The motorists
kept the UFO in view as they drove past Royal Lane and L.B.
Houston Park, heading for Interstate Highway 635.  "The object
was moving faster than we were," Mike reported.  "Our vehicle was
moving approximately 65 miles per hour, and the object moved past
us in the same direction and within ten seconds was out of
sight."  (E-mail Interview) (Editor's Comment: Ten seconds to the
horizon would mean an estimated speed of 1,440 miles per hour.
Thanks to UFO Roundup#16, Joe Trainor editor)

SAN BERNARDINO, CALIFORNIA

April 22, 1998, MUFON State Section Directors, Jerry Glass and
Cinde Costello, report they received a call on the "Hotline" from
a person who  stated she works with the Job Corps.     The person
reported at 8:55 PM, that over 50 people witnessed three bright
lights while looking east towards the Big Bear mountain area.
When first seen the lights were bright amber-yellow and appeared
to be floating or hovering.  The witness initially thought they
may be  hang gliders with lights.  The three objects then began
move south and changed colors from amber to bright red.  The
objects were viewed for  ten minutes until they were lost from
view.  The witness stated that while only the lights was most
prominent. At a distance she estimated to be one mile, she could
make out a wing-like  structure on the objects that she described
"like a seagull's wings."  A similar UFO was reported on January
5, 1998 (during the daytime).  This description also matches a
wave of sightings that took place in  the same area during 1979.
Witnesses included staff, security guards and trainees.  Reports
are  currently being filed with MUFON SB and an investigation
will follow.  Thanks to: Peter A. Gersten, Esq,  CAUS and San
Bernardino, MUFON.

SOUTH AUSTRALIA

The April 1998, National Geographic Magazine carries a story
"Closing the Circle" by Roff Martin Smith, who rode his bike
completely around the Australia.  He notes while riding along the
southern coast a large billboard reads:
"BEWARE OF UFOs NEXT 111 KILOMETERS WE BORD ON THE UNBELIEVABLE."
In 1988, a family driving across the Nullarbor claimed a flying
saucer picked up their car and tossed it to the side of the road.
 I could use some help of some friendly aliens this morning."
Thanks to National Geographic Magazine.
April 1998.

Two UFO sightings were reported near Adelaide, South Australia on
April 2, 1998.  At 11:00 p.m., residents of Mallala," reported
sighting a flashing light in the northern sky."  The illumination
flashed each time for about 21 seconds, and it was about 70
degrees above the horizon."  On April 4, 1998, witnesses near
Durrem, S.A. reported seeing "a large white illumination 'in a
holding pattern' hovering above a paddock at 4 a.m.  While the
UFO hovered "small red lights came out of the ground and rose up
into the larger illumination." Thanks to Ross Dowe and the
Australia-New Zealand 24-Hour UFO Hotline and UFO Roundup #15,
Joe Trainor editor.)

FLYING SAUCER BEING BUILT IN LONG BEACH, CALIFORNIA

A Flying Saucer shaped Science Fiction Hall of Fame is being
built near the Queen Mary. Science fiction fans won't have to
wait until 2001 to experience their own space odyssey. Queen's
Seaport Development, Inc. (QSDI), operators of the popular Queen
Mary attraction in Long Beach, Calif., are building a $30
million, first-of-its-kind Science Fiction Hall of Fame (SFHF) on
the 45-acre property adjacent to the Queen Mary.  Shaped to
resemble a massive flying saucer, the 100,000-square foot
facility is scheduled to open in early 2000, with projected
attendance of more than one million per year. Interactive
exhibits and immersive activities will feature state-of-the-art
technology and special effects to showcase science fiction,
fantasy and horror in film, television, and graphic arts.
Science fiction works have made their way into the cultural
lexicon," said Joseph F. Prevratil, president, QSDI.  "Is there
anyone who wouldn't recognize Darth Vader?  Hasn't everyone, at
some time, said �Beam me up Scottie.' Prevratil noted that while
the term "hall of fame" conjures up images of static museum
exhibits, this facility will be anything but that, using video,
audio, light, computer graphics, live presentations and special
guest appearances to engage visitors in a journey befitting the
exciting world of science, married with the future.  "Whether
they are conversing with a holographic science fiction hero,
creating their own comic book or `starring' in a famous sci-fi
scene, visitors to the Science Fiction Hall of Fame will be part
of the action, directing their own unique adventure each time
they visit," he said.  Plans for the SFHF include opportunities
to experience virtually every genre of science fiction in the
facility's imposing entry/arrival zone, pre-show theaters and
five interest areas, covering television, graphics, film,
authors, and science fiction heroes.  Corporate sponsors who
recognize the broad appeal of science fiction, are also being
approached for cross-promotions, as well as partnerships.
Leading filmmakers, authors, artists and aficionados will be
invited to sit on the Hall of Fame's advisory board. Prevratil
indicated that an announcement of board members might take place
in conjunction with the facility's August 1998 groundbreaking.  A
selection committee will also announce the first inductees to the
SFHF at a gala event in November of this year. To be eligible for
induction, nominees must have made outstanding contributions in
the arts and sciences of science fiction, based upon  cumulative
contributions or achievements, or a singular and extraordinary
contribution or achievement.
Furthermore, a candidate must also have a body of work spanning a
minimum of 20 years.  A series of television specials honoring
the genre and its pioneers is in production and will be presented
under the auspices of SFHF. The first special will showcase women
in science fiction and is scheduled for production late this
year. Prevratil noted that fans will also be able to help
preserve memorabilia and honor icons of science fiction through
tiered sponsorships ($25+). The non-profit foundation is being
formed to assist in securing artifacts from around the world and
developing appropriate educational programs. Thanks to AOL News
and Chaser 910.

RIO DE JANEIRO, BRAZIL:

Carlos Amazonas  reports: "We saw little black and silver points,
exactly six objects at 1:00 p.m. on December 28, 1997.  They made
acrobatics in the sky.
The UFOs flew up and down,  zigzagging very fast.  We filmed it
and they were so fast that we could only see them well in slow
motion on the videocassette player.  Thanks to: John C. Thompson
ISUR Sighting Report Carlos Amazonas, Ewald@unikey.com.

UNITED KINGDOM:

Richard Porter from Mansfield, Woodhouse reports a sighting  at
23:30 on April 15, 1998. He saw a low flying UFO with 3 very
bright lights at the front moving very slow. It made no sound
until after it past when we heard a very deep rumbling sound,
unlike any plane he had ever heard. When overhead the 3 lights
turned off and we could see 4 red lights in a diamond shape.
Richard said, "I saw the same object again last Wednesday. If
there is a reasonable explanation for this sighting, please
e-mail me because I know a bit about planes.  I know of nothing
that would have looked, moved, or  sounded like what I saw. He
had a similar sighting about 1.5 years ago. Thanks to John
Thompson and ISUR.

MAJIC  MJ-12

Reference your article on MJ-12 in Filer�s Files #14. We were
informed back in '87 that the Air Force and others used Nuclear
Weapons programs to hide this UFO stuff.  Mj-12 used programs
such as this plus the "Office of Disaster Preparedness" now FEMA
as covers for itself.  Back in the eighties then President Reagan
and Vice President Bush reportedly made regular trips to the
Manzano Weapons Storage Facility for briefings on this "Alien"
subject.  I saw a few of those small 737 size shuttle airplanes
parked on the back ramp at Kirtland AFB many a time.  bob c

Joel Carpenter writes:
"I strongly doubt this explanation of the MAJIC name.
I think it was simply a term that was invented when the MJ-12
documents were faked, a play on the famous "MAGIC" codeword for
WWII decrypts of the Japanese codes.  The REAL Manhattan Project
"Project Y" was the Oak Ridge gaseous diffusion isotope
separation plant in Oak Ridge, Tennessee.  It had nothing to do
with the Armed Forces Special Weapons Project (AFSPW) in New
Mexico or the Avro saucer project.  Project Y was so named by
John Frost, the Canadian saucer designer, because it was a step
beyond "X," more impressive than the other X-planes. (See Richard
Rhodes' book on the development of the A-bomb for details of the
nuclear Project Y.)  As for the alleged meaning of MAJIC -- the
Manhattan Engineering District was a component of the Army Corps
of Engineers, and the term was dropped after WWII. So it seems
not too believable that it would be used in connection with the
AFSWP, which was Air Force-managed. And why would the term "JCS"
have anything to do with AFSWP? I think he just needed a word
that began with "J" to put in there.  The other factor is that
MAJIC as used in the MJ-12 documents is clearly a codeword for a
security compartment, not the name of an organization. This is
silly -- it's like classifying a document "Top Secret-NORAD."
Secrecy compartment codes are always five-letter words, i.e.,
UMBRA, THUMB, CANOE, MAGIC, FROTH, etc.  MAJIC was obviously
supposed to be the same thing.

>From "US Nuclear Weapons: The Secret History," by Chuck Hansen:
"Formal engineering development of the Mk 4 [nuclear weapon]
started on August 2, 1945, with the establishment of Z Division,
or the Ordnance Engineering Division, at Los Alamos.  Z Division
was an offshoot of the wartime E Division at Los Alamos.  E
Division had been formed to study and develop bomb fuses, the
uranium gun for Little Boy, and implosion systems. Z Division was
to conduct bomb engineering and production, chiefly concerned
with airplane and ballistic problems,  and replace a wartime
group known as project W-47 at Wendover Field, near Salt Lake
City, Utah.  By this time, the Manhattan Project had acquired a
small airfield (formerly an Army Air Forces Base called Sandia
Base) near Albuquerque, New Mexico; Z Division was to be assigned
its own airplanes and use of a large Army Base at Kirtland Field
near Albuquerque.
The new division was barely organized before the war ended....
One of the first tasks of Z Division was to redesign the Fat Man
from a sound engineering point of view....In the fall of 1945, Z
Division transferred W-47 activities to Oxnard Field (Sandia
Base) near Albuquerque.  Several buildings were available, along
with explosives magazines and assembly areas.  Nearby Kirtland
Field was used to base the B-29 squadron required for aircraft
compatibility and drop test programs.  Z Division was
consolidated at Sandia Base in Feb. 1947.  On April 1, 1948, Z
Division of LASL [Los Alamos Scientific Laboratories] became the
Sandia Branch of LASL.  During 1946-1947, Z Division at Los
Alamos studied the possibility of creating a penetrating weapon
to pierce armored ship decks, underground bunkers, and heavily-
reinforced submarine pens ."  Histories of Z Division are
available:   "Z- Division Progress Report, 18 July 1947 -- 18
Aug. 1947," LAMS-607, 26 Aug.1947, Los Alamos Scientific Labs,
Los Alamos, NM  From the "US Nuclear Weapons Databook, Vol. III:
US Nuclear Warhead Facility Profiles"  the history of Sandia.
Labs: Thanks to: Joel Carpenter.

Send your letters and reports to George Filer at Majorstar@aol.com.






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   Apr > Apr 25

                             JPL 'Kent' Exposed

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:09:10 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:09:10 -0400
Subject: JPL 'Kent' Exposed





My apologies for the tardy deliver of this one - life
has been somewhat chaotic around UpDatesville for the
past while..... thanks Jeff.

ebk
___________________________________________

From: http://www.reversespeech.com/kent.html

JPL 'Kent' Exposed

The following Reverse Speech analysis of the famous Kent
broadcast on the Art Bell show where he claimed to have seen
color photos of the Face on Mars and the ruins of a city, has
been exposed by David Oates and Richard Hoagland, as a scam. When
confronted by Richard Hoagland on April the 2nd with information
found in reverse, Kent whose real name is supposedly Greg Beal,
broke down and confessed, claiming that he was working for a
disinformation unit in the defense intelligence agency. He was
staggered that they had been exposed by Reverse Speech so
quickly.

_______________________________

From: eotl@west.net [Jeff Rense]
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 01:28:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Subject: URGENT KENT TEXT


This will be going up on my sightings.com website shortly.  David
sent it this evening and I've formatted it.

Best,
Jeff

David John Oates' Reverse Speech Analysis - "KENT" EXPOSED!
By David John Oates
4-22-98

Note:  David John Oates has come to a determination that the
"Kent" story, based upon extensive reverse speech analysis of the
actual interview done on the Art Bell program, is NOT WHAT IT
SEEMS.  Below is an email we just received from David who will
appear as Jeff's guest on Sightings, Thursday, April 23, 1998.

                      _______________________________

The following Reverse Speech analysis of the famous "Kent"
broadcast on the Art Bell show where he claimed to have seen
color photos of the Face on Mars, and the ruins of a "city," has
been exposed by as a CAREFULLY ORCHESTRATED GOVERNMENT
DISINFORMATION CAMPAIGN.

When confronted by Richard Hoagland on, Wednesday, April 22nd,
with the information found in my reverse speech analysis,"Kent"
whose real name is supposedly Greg Beal, broke down and CONFESSED
THAT HE WAS WORKING FOR A DISINFORMATION UNIT IN THE DEFENSE
INTELLIGENCE AGENCY.

"Kent" (Beal) said he was STAGGERED AND STUNNED that the
operation had been exposed by Reverse Speech so quickly.
Reversals for the "Kent" text, plus more
transcripts will be posted in the next few days.

Here are some of the "Kent" reversals:


Kent:  "...put the cap onto the Federal cylinder, seal it, take
       it down to the lady where the Federal Express machine is."

Reversal:  "Mission in the sand / We deal with the sly bigot"


Kent: "She said, 'OK, the courier will bring them by.' And then I
      didn't have much to do until Federal Express got there."

Reversal:  "They were smart"


Kent: "So, I went into the break room and was sitting there by
      the window there..."

Reversal:  "Near the skill"


Kent:  "...sitting there drinking some hot chocolate when the
       maintainence guy came in.  We've always seen each other in
       the hall..."

Reversal:  "See a war, you're wanting it / Had to bring in a new
           guy"


Kent:  "So, I bent over to pick up that picture. I set it up down
       on the table."

Reversal:  "They handle a weapon"


Kent:  "...you've got the eyebrows and you've got two eye
       sockets, you've got the nose and you've got two nostrils..."

Reversal:  "The baggish warned the bloody earth"


Kent:  "..one of the photographs that we looked at, picture World
       War Two..."

Reversal:  (????) "will see this"


Kent:  "...one of the walls had been knocked out, like say if you
       went inside and had a sledge hammer and was knocking out
       the wall."

Reversal:  "I may still see it"


Kent:  "...about that time when we were looking at the pictures,
       I heard, 'Oh my God,' and there was one of the big wigs, he
       was standing right there in the doorway..."

Reversal:  "I want it"



Kent:  "...and he's giving us a few unpleasant subtelties there
       and he's putting the photos back in between the cardboard."

Reversal:  "He's boss / Goodbye, you used him Kent"


Kent:  "...and about a quarter to two in the afternoon, he calls
       me back into the offfice, and he tells me to clean by stuff
       out and he says your interest is no longer needed here."

Reversal:  "They grabbed him / Source interest / They see money"


Kent:  "...because one of the big wigs down there didn't like me
       looking at their pictures."

Reversal:  "They plan to kill him"   (Assasination of who?)


Kent:  "He said, 'It doesn't matter, you should have put the
       picture back in there. (he said) We don't need the American
       public looking at these pictures.'"

Reversal:  "You see lamb beside the scene / They see it on you.
           Been naughty when they grabbed the ship"


Kent:  "...a lot of the photographs were being sent to Washington
       DC. Some of the cylinders were being sent to the United
       Nations..."

Reversal:  "You're seen. Let me show with less neighbors"


Kent:  "I was the one that put the label on myself and it was
       going to Langley."

Reversal:  "I will deal with Lupert"


Kent:  "I've got the perfect guy you need to talk to and he said
       you need to talk to Art Bell."

Reversal:  "I will screw / Your Bell will see this"


Kent:  "...then I was talking to some other people and they told
       me definitely to do that."

Reversal:  "Afraid we lost gamble"


Kent:  "I noticed that the phone had been moved. It wasn't in the
       same place."

Reversal:  "We plan to kill (???) I lost city / Need to know a
           curse"



Kent:  "I'm going to go someplace where I know that I'll be
safe."

Reversal:  "Worn arrows"









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   Apr > Apr 25

                          BWW Media Alert 19980424

From: BufoCalvin <BufoCalvin@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 00:42:33 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:40:52 -0400
Subject: BWW Media Alert 19980424

Bufo Calvin
P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA  94596
Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Website: <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin">http://members.aol.com/bufo
calvin<;/a>
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this
edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that attribution is made
to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with
strangers before you e-mail them something.  If you forward this, please make
sure it is clear that you are forwarding it).
April 24, 1998

On to the listings!  Most times are Pacific unless otherwise noted.  Oh, and I
expect to have the next Bufo's ANOMALIT Review out within a week.

I'm appearing in my regular every other Sunday slot on Eddie Middleton's
NIGHTSEARCH out of WREC in Memphis this weekend.  Eddie asked me about an
alleged recent skirmish between human and alien forces in which some of the
humans reportedly suffered injuries.  If you have heard of this one, I'd
appreciate a note in the next two days.  Please let me know if you would like
to be cited as a source or if you would prefer to maintain your anonymity.

RADIO

ART BELL

Here is the upcoming schedule.  The show runs from 10:00 PM to 3:00 AM
weeknights, and 6:00 PM to 9:00 PM for Dreamland on Sunday.  For more
information, see http://www.artbell.com.

Friday, April 24, 10:00 PM,  Ed Dames, Remote Viewing
Sunday, April 26, DREAMLAND, Whitley Strieber, Author:  "Communion" and (
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/031218557X/bufosweirdworldA/
">Confirmation: The Hard Evidence of Aliens Among Us</A> )

TELEVISION

A&E

Thursday, April 30, 6:00 PM, UFOS: HAVE WE BEEN VISITED? (Michael Dorn
narrates)
Thursday, April 30, 10:00 PM, UFOS: HAVE WE BEEN VISITED? (Michael Dorn
narrates)


THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL

Thursday, April 30, 9:00 PM, ANIMAL X: GHOSTS AND PHANTOMS (includes black big
cat sightings in Ireland)
Friday, May 1, 1:00 AM, ANIMAL X: GHOSTS AND PHANTOMS (includes black big cat
sightings in Ireland)

THE LEARNING CHANNEL

Tuesday, April 28, 6:00 PM, ALIEN SECRETS: AREA 51
Tuesday, April 28, 9:00 PM, ALIEN SECRETS: AREA 51
Wednesday, April 29, 6:00 PM, WE ARE NOT ALONE: SKYWATCHERS (UFO witnesses)
Wednesday, April 29, 6:00 PM, WE ARE NOT ALONE: ALIEN HUNTERS
Wednesday, April 29, 9:00 PM, WE ARE NOT ALONE?: SKYWATCHERS (UFO witnesses)
Wednesday, April 29, 10:00 PM, WE ARE NOT ALONE: ALIEN HUNTERS
Thursday, April 30, 6:00 PM, ROSWELL
Thursday, April 30, 9:00 PM, ROSWELL
Friday, May 1, 6:00 PM, UFOS AND OTHER CLOSE ENCOUNTERS
Friday, May 1, 7:00 PM, THE CASE OF THE UFOS

THE SCI-FI CHANNEL

Continues to run SIGHTINGS reruns at 5:00 PM and 9:00 PM weekdays.

___________________________

This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!"
____________________________

You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly
redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by
e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com.  You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to
Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert the same way. Also, please let me know if
there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, t
he week before.
_____________________________

**OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an
Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS
encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions:
however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece
or others presented under my own name.  For more information on OPUS, see its we
bsite at http://members.aol.com/josephxx3







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   Apr > Apr 25

                Jacques Poulet's 'The Fortean Files 1' CD ROM

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:47:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:47:13 -0400
Subject: Jacques Poulet's 'The Fortean Files 1' CD ROM





Jacques Poulet's BBS 'Chucara' was for several years _the_
Eastern Canadaian distributor of Don Allan's 'FIDO UFO', John
Powell's 'Odyssey/BAMA' and The MUFON Network. Jacques, in those
years, collected literally thousands of files which are now
available on a CD ROM.

'The Fortean Files 1' holds 400 Mb in over 10,000 files of all
kinds, classified by subject. From Bigfoot's 'Shout' (.wav) to
the August 6, 1997, Mexico City UFO movie (.mov) and includes
fringe sciences and all of the paranormal. This archive is a
must for both oldtimers and newcomers.

The price is $25.00

For ordering information and a screen shot of the cover
visit:

http://www.generation.net/~jpoulet/main_e.htm

E-Mail Jacques at: jpoulet@mygale.org

His snail-mail is:

CHUCARA
Box 61
La Prairie, Qc
Canada  J5R 3Y1







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   Apr > Apr 25

                UK Conference - 'UFOs - The Global Evidence'

From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 22:57:32 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:39:43 -0400
Subject: UK Conference - 'UFOs - The Global Evidence'

Stop Press

UK Conference

Sunday 26th July 1998

U.F.O.'s - The Global Evidence

Speakers:-

- Dr. Steven Greer ( U.S.A. ) - CE-5's/Disclosure

- Michael Hesemann ( Germany ) - UFO Report 2000 - The Best Cases
  of the Nineties (including video footage)

- Nick Redfern ( U.K. ) - The British Government Cover-Up

Tickets are limited and will be issued on a first come, first
served basis.

For further details please e-mail TSpurrier@compuserve.com

Yours, Tony






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   Apr > Apr 25

               Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

From: Theresa <Tcarlson1@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 04:10:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:50:50 -0400
Subject: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

>Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:36:49 -0400
>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


Bruce,

> Was it going so rapidly that he had to pan ahead of it?

No, but he does.

>Was the camera perfectly stationary before the UO started
>to move to the right, or was the camera jiggling around?

The camera is moving but the city image is not.  No cars move, no
birds, no rustling of of the leaves on the trees. Even the smog,
or fog, or whatever it is suppose to be, lays in a still and even
layer through out the entire video.  We don't get smog here so I
could be wrong, but doesn't it roll and move about a bit, and
isn't it patchy or uneven in density?

One of the researchers that went to Mexico City reports that the
top floor of the building houses a real estate company that uses
videos to show the properties they have for sale.  This is the
reason they have video cameras there.  Now tell me, does a
company that uses video presentation, just throw raw video at
their prospective customers?  Or do they do some editing to make
it more professional and presentable?

Even basic video editing includes overlays and transparency.
That's all that's needed to create a composite video.  Had the
UO passed in front of something in the video it would have
been a little more difficult but still not impossible.

Another photo expert asked me about whether video editing
programs had the capability to create camera effects like, camera
motion, depth of focus, motion blur, field rendering, etc..  The
answer is yes they do, but that would be the hard way to do it.
The easiest way to create camera effects is to film the composite
video with a camera. That's the way professionals do it.

And this isn't anything new, look at old movies Hollywood used to
make even before computers. It was frequently used to create the
illusion of people riding in a car, and the scenery passing by.
(Luckily they do this differently now.)

What is it that makes you think the city scape is a "live" video
shot and not a still image? Do you see something moving
independently in it or does the image move as a whole with the
camera motion?


>I must admit to being intrigued at the first  UFO video
>I've seen that seems to combine several types of physics or
>dynamics. However, these could be created by a sufficiently
>inventive hoaxer.....supposing said person thought of it.

Or they got lucky.


Thanks,

   Regards,

     Theresa


http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tcarlson1







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                            Alfred's Odd Ode #242

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 07:24:52 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:52:25 -0400
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #242

Apology to MW #242 (For April 25, 1998)

Learn, well, your lessons kiddies, and take them near to heart,
or your culture will intrude its will, and take away your start.
It'll test with what's unsuited; it won't care about your talent,
but will put you in its prisons, and then act all prim and
gallant. It lies regarding chivalry, and produces strident rules,
but won't follow its own edicts it so aims at me and you.

It keeps your eyes from wonders that are blooming in our skies.
It ridicules your questions when you ask what others cry. It
grinds you with its science that is far from efficacious, as it
treats it like a truth revealed, but it's a cyst, sebaceous.  It
won't admit its wrongs it wrought to further selfish ends. It
won't admit the tyranny that it uses -- it pretends. It won't
reduce our numbers and it poisons Mother Earth.
It is jealous for the few. It's a full blown vicious curse.

Some think themselves a better lot, their genes are so supreme,
they have a right to take from you the self respect that you
would dream. These disallow the valid, and this ridicules the
lot. They don't care that you don't get it -- if you think it's
care it's not. They're a dweller of the shadows, and they listen
to your moans, but your message is regarded as the whining of
their working drones. So, they shall not then respect you.
Respect compels concern, and the moment that they make _that_ so,
less fortune they would earn.

There are secrets they possess that are the stuff of all our
dreams.
These are dreams of satisfaction found in sparkling mountain
streams. The bluest skies are filled with birds that live in easy
balance; the forests are our breathing lungs; the mountains are a
chalice. The desert's colored sand art, and the valley's
un-despised as a cradle I can live in 'til I grow up, dream, and
die. And growing would be possible -- would continue to the end.
Less is more I have discovered. More is death, I must contend.

Disrespect the weakest at your comfort loving peril, and ridicule
a face on Mars till you're bone dry, spent, and sterile. Keep
right on believing that it's humans wearing crowns -- that we're
alone in unknown space, we shan't usurp our haughty frowns. Keep
on thinking we should conquer -- Earth's is _subject_ to our
will. Keep your faith that won't be tested -- live that life of
rancid swill. Stay your course of population, and unearth the
grand disease that will humble prideful humankind, and bring it
to its knees.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

I'll say it again. We _have_ overpopulation so any one person
does not have to be respected _too_ much. If that person balks at
a lofty, prideful command from the manor lord, make it easy to
procure another that will! _Make_ people hungry! _Keep_ them that
way. Steer pro life, and steer clear a self-respecting pro
choice.

We Americans CREATE the barbarians at _our_ gates. We keep them
stocked with guns, nukes, chemical munitions, and biological
weapons of extreme lethality to use on one another. We sit
complacently while thousands daily starve. Any _wonder_ that
observing aliens are so reluctantly forthcoming, mysterious, and
inscrutable?


--
Explore the Alien View?

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake.







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   Apr > Apr 25

               Re: Does Munck Apply A Computational Calculus?

From: David Gullick <dgullick@interlog.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:33:20 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 21:31:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Does Munck Apply A Computational Calculus?

>From: Milamo <Milamo@aol.com>
>To: mars_updates@world.std.com
>Subject: Re: Does Munck apply a computational calculus?
>Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:19:46 EDT


>OK ... I'll talk about Munck's numbers for 'The Face' @ Cydonia
>and its longitude position relative-to 'The D&M Pyramid' here, as
>....

To List members who are not familiar with Carl Munck and
archeocryptology there is a brief article on the Laura Lee
page with other pointers at http://www.lauralee.com

Hi Michael,

>In general, a Grid Longitude is calculated by a site's (centered)
>number of longitude degrees  x  minutes  x  seconds. For sites to
>the west of Greenwich, England (if you are using W.Greenwich
>longitude), we add on 31 deg + 08 min  + 0.8 sec to the
>W.Greenwich longitude .... to adjust to W.Giza longitude.
>Longitude is measured east and west from the meridian running
>through the center of The Great Pyramid. Of course, it 'works'
>for E.Giza longitude, too. etc....

This is interesting and appears to work for Munck, but
almost ANYTHING can be "proven" or indicated with numbers.

As an example, an aside fall-out of my on-going investigations,
the following simplistic "coincidences" may be of interest to
yourself and List members:-

Adding the (31 deg + 8 min) to specific significant historical
sites yields some remarkable results when converted to decimal
format.

examples:

St Levan:        36.8000         Oster-Marie:     16.1000
Blois:           29.8000         Versailles:      29.0000
Bruges:          27.9000         Montsegur:       29.3000
Lubaantum:      120.1000         Pujaten:        108.5000
Mixco Viejo:    121.8000         Aksum:         -  7.6000
Macchu Picchu   103.7000         Nimrud:        - 12.2000


Is there some significance here?   <big smile>

David G.






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   Apr > Apr 25

                           Re: JPL 'Kent' Exposed

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 07:25:42 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 21:15:28 -0400
Subject: Re: JPL 'Kent' Exposed

>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:09:10 -0400
>Subject: JPL 'Kent' Exposed


> 'Kent' Exposed

> The following Reverse Speech analysis of the famous Kent
> broadcast on the Art Bell show where he claimed to have seen
> color photos of the Face on Mars and the ruins of a city, has
> been exposed by David Oates and Richard Hoagland, as a scam...

I must toss in a few opinions here!

#1)    Reverse speech, wherein phonemes are played backwards,
must inevitably create meaningful sounding words and/or phrases.
There are, after all, only so many phonemes ( word fragments )
in any language.

If you search long and hard enough, you will get short phrases.
Use a little selective imagination, and you can have anyone
saying all sorts of  little things.

R.S.  is bunk .. easily comparable to 'numerology'.

One need not resort to this sort of B.S.  to expose 'Kent'.
He exposed himself !      Anyone who missed out must have
forgotten to wind up his Bay-Gin radio.

#2)   If Richard Hoagland bought into this, remember that it was
Hoagland who brought you the 'face on Mars'!  When that crapped
out, it was the "city" .. the "pyramid"...

Grow a brain you guys!

Here are some "speech reversals" sent in by someone on this
list.   [ Thank you for your work! ]


> Reversal:  "Near the skill"

> Reversal:  "See a war, you're wanting it / Had to bring in a new
>            guy"

> Reversal:  "They handle a weapon"

> Reversal:  "The baggish warned the bloody earth"

> Reversal:  (????) "will see this"

> Reversal:  "I may still see it"

> Reversal:  "I want it"

> Reversal:  "He's boss / Goodbye, you used him Kent"

> Reversal:  "They grabbed him / Source interest / They see money"

-   -  -

I could go on, but no. This is crap.

I believe there is a genuinely mysterious phenomena which we call
UFOs for lack of a better name.

I see no use for side shows like this here. They have their
place on the 'net,  but should meet on some other email list ..
a forum that prefers activity to grey matter.

Best Wishes
(In spite of all this. Please don't be angry, just grow a brain.)

-  Larry Hatch


PS: I couldn't believe it. Art Bell recently  told one of his
invited talk-show guests that he found his story " hard to
believe "  !

I don't recall the details. I think the guy was telling Art that
he was talking to a house-plant, and it started arguing back.
All I know is the guest was not Richard Hoagland.   -LH










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                           Re: JPL 'Kent' Exposed

From: Ralf Zeigermann <kag15@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:14:28 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 21:12:54 -0400
Subject: Re: JPL 'Kent' Exposed


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:09:10 -0400
>Subject: JPL 'Kent' Exposed

>The following Reverse Speech analysis of the famous Kent
>broadcast on the Art Bell show where he claimed to have seen
>color photos of the Face on Mars and the ruins of a city, has
>been exposed by David Oates and Richard Hoagland, as a scam. When
>confronted by Richard Hoagland on April the 2nd with information
>found in reverse, Kent whose real name is supposedly Greg Beal,
>broke down and confessed, claiming that he was working for a
>disinformation unit in the defense intelligence agency. He was
>staggered that they had been exposed by Reverse Speech so
>quickly.


Oww ... an obvious nutcase has now been 'exposed' by Oates and
Hoagland? A cover-up? Why? Disinformation? Why?

Why do we have to deal with this crap here on the UpDates list?

Why do we still have to deal and seriously discuss Boylan's
findings about the Vatican, when Eduardo proved that it was
nothing more than BS? (and that was a good one, Eduardo - carry
on!)  Why do we have to discuss the 'Face on Mars' when there
obviously is _no_ face?

Aren't there more important things to do? I think it was James
Easton who suggested some time ago setting up a database of all
of the triangular UFO sightings.

Has anything happened?

No.

Are there any more news regarding Roswell (Kevin, where are
you?!)?

No.

Do we get any news at all?

No.

It's all Boylan, Mars, Mexico, Mars, Boylan.

Is this all there is?


I'm in a foul mood anyway, sorry.

Cheers,

Ralf







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               Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net>
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:03:42 GMT
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 21:23:46 -0400
Subject: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs


>Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 02:32:04 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John <jvif@spacelab.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs


>them. One of them did say that he thought that the UFO was
>suspended on a cable from a helicopter, but both agreed that
>-whatever it was- was actually there on the scene as it was
>videotaped. Ergo, not an "add on" or a "special effect."

That's the most explainable and probable scenario.  It wobbled
too much to be a real flying machine - especially from another
world.



--
Roger R. Prokic
Telecom Design Lead
Mars Surveyor Program 2001
Lockheed Martin Astronautics
Denver, Colorado USA
- sent from a PalmPilot Professional -






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   Apr > Apr 26

                  Re: New-agey drug-types & Kent Uncovered

From: SKvs <bradford@globalserve.net> [Sue Kovios]
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:13:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 07:12:14 -0400
Subject: Re: New-agey drug-types & Kent Uncovered


>Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:56:02 +1000
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Nemesis <nemesis@fastinternet.net.au> [Lawrie Williams]
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: New-agey drug-types/conspiracy witnesses rant

>>Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:07:22 -0700
>>From: "K. Young" <task@fuse.net>
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: New-agey drug-types/ conspiracy witnesses

>>> >The loosely rolled package was bumped by 'Kent's' colleague, it
>>> >rolled onto the floor and dislodged a colour photograph of...
>>> >'The Face' - clear, sharp and taken from almost directly
>>> >overhead. There were 8 other photographs, including 'buildings'
>>> >viewed from overhead and all dated April 5, 1998.

>>I have listened to numerous ART BELL programs and hear the 'young
>>man between 25-40-type' rant on and on about how our culture will
>>'be ravaged' by the truth while I consider the possibilities that
>>this person has been warped by some mind-altering drug.

>Quite likely. Some may even be suffering outright psychosis.
>BTW I've never heard of a case where the drug alcohol was
>not involved. There might be rare exceptions.

<Big Snipit>

>Has anyone else got a view on this?
>All the best.
>Nemesis____________________

Well I'm sorry to say I'm the one that started all this nonsense.
How did my implication that these guys on Art Bell all sounding
alike end up here?  I was simply suggesting that these guys
are a set-up.

I think the days of the CIA drug testing are over :)

So if this Kent (Beal) guy was a set-up for JPL, then why would
they go to all this trouble?  What's lurking up someone's slimey
sleeve now?

Has Oates done an analysis on the 'frantic' phone caller on Art
Bell a few months ago?  I'll bet it's the same guy.  Any way for
someone to do a speech comparison (i.e. certain patterns of
saying certain things, similar emphasis on specific words....)?

Sorry to combine the two messages but it's all the same ball
of melting wax.

Sue Kovios
(Drug-free)







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                           Re: JPL 'Kent' Exposed

From: UFOLAWYER1 <UFOLAWYER1@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:00:14 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 07:16:23 -0400
Subject: Re: JPL 'Kent' Exposed

In a message dated 4/25/98 6:17:20 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
updates@globalserve.net writes:

>The following Reverse Speech analysis of the famous "Kent"
>broadcast on the Art Bell show where he claimed to have seen
>color photos of the Face on Mars, and the ruins of a "city," has
>been exposed by as a CAREFULLY ORCHESTRATED GOVERNMENT
>DISINFORMATION CAMPAIGN.


LOL...what double nonsense now. If there is a disinformation
campaign, I would suggest the conspirators are
Bell/Hoagland/Oates/Beal. Will charlatans never cease...or for
that matter the gullability of the public. I am sure the same
people that believed Kent originally will once again believe him
now...though an admitted liar.

Peter A. Gersten





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   Apr > Apr 26

               50 People Witness 3 UFOs Over San Bernadino, CA

From: "Stefan Duncan" <duncan@tarheel.net>
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 14:57:20 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 07:10:22 -0400
Subject: 50 People Witness 3 UFOs Over San Bernadino, CA


Does anyone have the San Bernadino, Ca MUFON e-mail address?
Trying to contact Jerry Glass in regards to sighting.








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                Chat with Clifford Stone, Author/Retired Army

From: "Yvonne Hedenland" <vonni_h@email.msn.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:56:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 07:13:07 -0400
Subject: Chat with Clifford Stone, Author/Retired Army

Join the UFO Forum and Clifford Stone on Tuesday,
4/28/98 at 6pm, PT, for a discussion on government
secrecy.  According to Stone, the United States
government actively pursued the question of ET.

Stone joined the Army in 1968 and was a Nuclear/
Biological/ Chemical Retrieval Specialist. According
to his book,  UFOs Are Real,  he was assigned to
UFO Investigations and debris analysis.

This chat is available at http://forums.msn.com/ufo
or can be accessed by any IRC client.
The chat server name is publicchat.msn.com
and the room or channel name is #briefing.

Stone indicates in his audio interview that there
have been several crash retrievals and face to
face encounters with various species. The
Netshow Audio interview is available now on
the UFO Forum http://forums.msn.com/ufo







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   Apr > Apr 26

                 Re: JPL Hiding Colour, Clear Face & Cydonia

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 11:00:10 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 07:07:44 -0400
Subject: Re: JPL Hiding Colour, Clear Face & Cydonia


>Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 17:59:26 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: JPL Hiding Colour, Clear Face & Cydonia Pictures?


>Why does this story sound believable??  To me it sounds ridiculous.

>These are digital images.  If you want to send them somewhere you
>modem them, or put them on a disk and Fedex the disk.

>[Bob, you and I both know that the bureaucracies, for the most
> part, are not set up to look at digital images. Damn, they have
> enough difficulty setting the clocks on their VCRs and sending
> faxes. The people looking at 'those' pictures would want
> hard-copy. They don't have time to go through learning curves
> and if these images _are_ the genuine article, wouldn't want
> some TI drone looking at them either. Hence the possibility
> that JPL, with their, what must, be even to you, absolutely
> breathtaking facilities, are indeed printing pictures and
> using FedEx to ship them - the "needle in a haystack
> principal" (to quote Bell) justifies using public couriers.]

Hi Errol, Hi Bob

I would like to interject here if I could. Whilst I am personally
on the fence regarding the issue of the Face on Mars I do know
something of the British bureaucracy regarding confidencial
documents and etc.

A friend of mine works for our esteemed HM Customs Office. In
his job he deals with some very confidential papers, pictures and
etc. All important documents have to be hardcopy and mailed by
secure courier because HMS Customs Service does'nt trust the
security of Fax'es and email because they can be intercepted.
"Normal" mail, which can be pretty dammin can be faxed or
emailed.

---
      People can have it any colour, as long as its black!
                       Sean Jones
 Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm
         Research page--http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/






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                          Re: Latest Cydonia photos

From: Pedro Cunha <pplfilho@nutecnet.com.br>
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 21:14:02 -0300
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 07:21:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Latest Cydonia photos

> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:55:23 -0400
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
> Subject: Re: Latest Cydonia photos

> Linda Howe phoned me this afternoon to tell me that the latest
> Cydonia photos were up on Michael Malin's site
> (http://www.msss.com) and that I should take a look. I was
> working in the studio when she called, and only just got loose to
> come to the computer.

> Well, I'll be hornswaggled, there's a damned pyramid in the lower
> half of this one!!!  At least it looks like one at first glance.
>
> I followed the link from Malin's site to JPLs and downloaded the
> BIG file.  On magnification, the apparent regularity of the
> "pyramid" dissolves into irregularity, and it takes on the
> appearance of a hill surrounded by sand dunes.  Drat!

> I still have not found the "half buried pyramid" people kept
> saying they were seeing in the previous image, and no one
> responded to my request to point out just where it was.

> So, I still don't think we have found the elusive "city".

> I'm off Sunday on a magazine assignment in Europe and will be off
> line for a couple of weeks.  If someone could tell me where that
> bloody "half buried pyramid" is, I'd appreciate it.



Hello Bob,

I am just curiuos about something! Who would know how a highly
eroded pyramid would look like in our days? Let's try this one.
(I am just supposing someone would know!) I mean It is very
interesting to see what we have there. How can you prove like
a+b=c that there's nothing there but natural geological
formations?

And also, hoping someone one day will go there to see or to
research...
Sure someone will,one day.

I defy all the 'talkative' people here to do so (it is very
salutar). I am a skeptic likewise. But I see that lot's of people
just make up things. Ok, let's see what we have. Photographs, who
is the one to prove a+b=c that there's nothing there. NASA has
all the wealth. OK. NASA will release all they have? NOO. YESS.
See?

Please, you and all the others that have been posting here, must
be convincing, and must have scientific proof, enough to show...
Q.E.D!
Otherwise we will be always in the same chat chat... Sorry... I
would like to have time to spend here. But I am still trying in
my humble research to find someting interesting to show you all.


And please... let me know all your findings about the Roswell
Film.

I would appreciate... I am not a scholar... but I am looking to
find out what we have about UFOs and all the happenings in the
world.


Salutations from a truly admirer,

Pedro Cunha






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                           Re: JPL 'Kent' Exposed

From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com> [Robert Gates]
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 00:00:22 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 07:29:46 -0400
Subject: Re: JPL 'Kent' Exposed


>  Subj: UFO UpDate: JPL 'Kent' Exposed
>  Date: 98-04-25 09:04:17 EDT
>  From: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto)
>  To:  updates@globalserve.net

<snip>

>  From: http://www.reversespeech.com/kent.html

>  JPL 'Kent' Exposed

>  The following Reverse Speech analysis of the famous Kent
>  broadcast on the Art Bell show where he claimed to have seen
>  color photos of the Face on Mars and the ruins of a city, has
>  been exposed by David Oates and Richard Hoagland, as a scam. When
>  confronted by Richard Hoagland on April the 2nd with information
>  found in reverse, Kent whose real name is supposedly Greg Beal,
>  broke down and confessed, claiming that he was working for a
>  disinformation unit in the defense intelligence agency. He was
>  staggered that they had been exposed by Reverse Speech so
>  quickly.

  I have another take on all this:

Anybody, can call Art Bell or any radio talk show host, claim to
be just about any govt official, intelligence community, super
secret organization source, say ANYTHING (i.e. weave any kind of
lie,tale,rumor,gossip, inuendo) tell it in the first person basis
and many gulliable people will believe such people until
unmasked.

The militia guys used to call Chuck Harders show and unload every
fantastic tale/claim/story/rumor/gossip/innuendo, naturally told
to Chuck  in the first person "to sound credible".

"Well I saw the black helocoptor land at...."

When the reality is:

"I heard from my buddy, who heard it from his brother, who was
told by his wife, who heard it from his hairdresser, who heard it
from.... who said they saw a black helocoptor with UN markings
landing in...."   If they said that they would sound like they
are, just another person repeating  a story he heard.

The bottom line on any radio talk show is to take everything you
hear with a  big grain of SALT, wait for independent proof (which
usually never happens) and  carry on with life.

Also, don't quit  your day job based upon a tale Art or one of
his listeners unloaded on his show.

Cheers,
Robert







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               Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl>
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 09:56:29 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 10:22:45 -0400
Subject: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs


>Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:03:42 GMT
>From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re:  UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

>That's the most explainable and probable scenario.  It wobbled
>too much to be a real flying machine - especially from another
>world.

And just where is the logic behind this one? I doubt strongly
that you're much of a true expert on the mechanics of a real
extraterrestrial craft to "know" what can or cannot be. It's all
opinion with no basis in fact, no one can tell beforehand if an
extraterrestrial "saucer" wobbles too much or far too less, or
should not even wobble at all. I'm not saying the Mexico film
is real, your "argument" just has no merit.

Aside from that, "wobbling" behavior has been consistently
present in quite a number of UFO reports, you might want to
check Paul Hill's "Unconventional Flying Objects" for details,
or see NICAP's "UFO Evidence" for reports.






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                          Re: Latest Cydonia photos

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 08:44:50 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 10:25:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Latest Cydonia photos

>Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 21:14:02 -0300
>From: Pedro Cunha <pplfilho@nutecnet.com.br>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Latest Cydonia photos

>Hello Bob,

>I am just curiuos about something! Who would know how a highly
>eroded pyramid would look like in our days? Let's try this one.
>(I am just supposing someone would know!) I mean It is very
>interesting to see what we have there. How can you prove like
>a+b=c that there's nothing there but natural geological
>formations?

>And also, hoping someone one day will go there to see or to
>research...
>Sure someone will,one day.


No, I don't know what a highly eroded pyramid would look like.
I'm not a geologist or archeologist.  Hopefully those with
experience in these fields will weigh in here.

>I defy all the 'talkative' people here to do so (it is very
>salutar). I am a skeptic likewise. But I see that lot's of people
>just make up things. Ok, let's see what we have. Photographs, who
>is the one to prove a+b=c that there's nothing there. NASA has
>all the wealth. OK. NASA will release all they have? NOO. YESS.
>See?

>Please, you and all the others that have been posting here, must
>be convincing, and must have scientific proof, enough to show...
>Q.E.D!
>Otherwise we will be always in the same chat chat... Sorry... I
>would like to have time to spend here. But I am still trying in
>my humble research to find someting interesting to show you all.

>And please... let me know all your findings about the Roswell
>Film.

If you are referring to the alien autopsy film, I'm still working
on it.  I go back and forth on it.  At the moment I am more
inclined to consider it a good SFX fake.  Ask me in a few days
and I may have flipped back the other way.  I don't balance on
fences very well.  Philip and I still want to do a book about it
if we can ever find the right publisher.

>I would appreciate... I am not a scholar... but I am looking to
>find out what we have about UFOs and all the happenings in the
>world.

I will be off this list starting today for a week or two, so
please don't expect answers to messages sent during that time.  I
have to unsubscribe to keep my mail box from filling up and
bouncing messages back.

Bob








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                     Divers Find World's Oldest Building

From: "Brian Straight" <briansxx@gte.net>
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 08:01:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 10:29:07 -0400
Subject: Divers Find World's Oldest Building

The following URL is interesting -- source is the London Times:

http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/Sunday-Times/frontpage.html?1781903

Text of the article follows--but the picture is worth seeing!


Divers Find World's Oldest Building
by Trushar Barot



  A STRUCTURE thought to be the world's oldest building, nearly
twice the age of the great pyramids of Egypt, has been
discovered. The rectangular stone ziggurat under the sea off the
coast of Japan could be the first evidence of a previously
unknown Stone Age civilisation, say archeologists.

The monument is 600ft wide and 90ft high and has been dated to at
least 8000BC. The oldest pyramid in Egypt, the Step Pyramid at
Saqqara, was constructed more than 5,000 years later.

The structure off Yonaguni, a small island southwest of Okinawa,
was first discovered 75ft underwater by scuba divers 10 years ago
and locals believed it was a natural phenomenon.

Professor Masaki Kimura, a geologist at Ryukyu University in
Okinawa, was the first scientist to investigate the site and has
concluded that the mysterious five-layer structure was man-made.
"The object has not been manufactured by nature. If that had been
the case, one would expect debris from erosion to have collected
around the site, but there are no rock fragments there," he said.


The discovery of what appears to be a road surrounding the
building was further evidence that the structure was made by
humans, he added.

Robert Schoch, professor of geology at Boston University, dived
at the site last month. "It basically looks like a series of huge
steps, each about a metre high. Essentially, it's a cliff face
like the side of a stepped pyramid. It's a very interesting
structure," he said. "It's possible that natural water erosion
combined with the process of cracked rocks splitting created such
a structure, but I haven't come across such processes creating a
structure as sharp as this."

Further evidence that the structure is the work of humans came
with the discovery of smaller underwater stone mounds nearby.
Like the main building, these mini-ziggurats are made of stepped
slabs and are about 10m wide and 2m high.

Kimura said it was too early to know who built the monument or
its purpose. "The structure could be an ancient religious shrine,
possibly celebrating an ancient deity resembling the god
Nirai-Kanai, whom locals say gave happiness to the people of
Okinawa from beyond the sea. This could be evidence of a new
culture as there are no records of a people intelligent enough to
have built such a monument 10,000 years ago," he said.

"This could only have been done by a people with a high degree of
technology, probably coming from the Asian continent, where the
oldest civilisations originate. There would have to have been
some sort of machinery involved to have created such a huge
structure."

Teruaki Ishii, professor of geology at Tokyo University, said the
structure dated back to at least 8000BC when the land on which it
was constructed was submerged at the end of the last ice age. "I
hope this site is artificial as it would be very exciting. But at
this time I feel it is too early to say. I think the structure
could be natural, but part of it may have been made," he said.

The first signs of civilisation in Japan are traced to the
Neolithic period around 9000BC. The people at this time lived as
hunters and food-gatherers. There is nothing in the archeological
record to suggest the presence of a culture advanced enough to
have built a structure like the ziggurat.

British archeologists are, however, cautiously enthusiastic about
the discovery which will be featured this summer in a Channel 4
documentary.

Jim Mower, an archeologist at University College London, said:
"If it is confirmed that the site is as old as 10,000 years and
is man-made, then this is going to change an awful lot of the
previous thinking on southeast Asian history. It would put the
people who made the monument on a par with the ancient





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              Any More News Regarding Roswell? [was: JPL 'Kent'

From: KRandle993 <KRandle993@aol.com> [Kevin Randle]
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 09:45:19 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 10:34:14 -0400
Subject: Any More News Regarding Roswell? [was: JPL 'Kent'

>Subject: JPL 'Kent' Exposed
>Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:14:28 +0100
>From: Ralf Zeigermann <kag15@dial.pipex.com>
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>


>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:09:10 -0400
>>Subject: JPL 'Kent' Exposed

> Oww ... an obvious nutcase has now been 'exposed' by Oates and
> Hoagland? A cover-up? Why? Disinformation? Why?

> Why do we have to deal with this crap here on the UpDates list?

> Why do we still have to deal and seriously discuss Boylan's
> findings about the Vatican, when Eduardo proved that it was
> nothing more than BS? (and that was a good one, Eduardo - carry
> on!)  Why do we have to discuss the 'Face on Mars' when there
> obviously is _no_ face?

Hear, Hear.

> Are there any more news regarding Roswell (Kevin, where are
>you?!)?

Yes, but it's bad. Glenn Dennis invented his nurse, and probably
had nothing to do with the case.

J. Bond Johnson is now billing himself as the "Roswell
Photographer" though he only photographed the remains of a
balloon in General Ramey's office. He is denying that he told me
that Ramey told him it was a balloon. He is denying that he said
that he wrote the story in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, which he
told me. It's all on tape. Even after hearing the tapes, he
denies it.

Jim Ragsdale so changed his story that he is useless as a witness
to anything. He sold out for money. He signed to mutually
exclusive affidavits.

The case has become so confused by so many people with their own
agendas that it is becoming difficult to sort the truth from the
fiction. Some see it as a way of making money, some see it as a
way of gaining the spotlight, and some see it as a danger to
their own belief structures. We have the Air Force issuing
multiple final reports, some with conclusions so ridiculous that
even the news media was rejecting them.

But, when all is said in done, we have every member of Colonel
Blanchard's staff who was alive to talk to us telling us that
what was recovered was not a balloon. Patrick Saunders wrote on
the flyleaf to





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                Current-Encouinters: US Airforce's Bad Rap in

From: slk <slk@EVANSVILLE.NET> [Francis Ridge]
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 10:07:09 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:55:43 -0400
Subject: Current-Encouinters: US Airforce's Bad Rap in

Greetings, this Sunday morning,

The evidence is becoming clearer by the day that the Air Force
got a bad rap regarding the UFO issue in the early days. Maybe if
we can make this well-known they might try to be more open with
the facts as time goes on.

The evidence is clear. Base commanders took their pilots' reports
seriously. Air Force people and project Sign had a damned good
reason to send the Top Secret Estimate and later reports to the
"top". Col. It appears that McCoy was probably an associate
member of NICAP because he attended a meeting at NICAP HQ circa
1958 and this is all on audio tape. He took the issue very
seriously and claimed they were doing the best job they could. It
also appears that the Air Force got bad advise from the
scientific community (even Hynek in the early days). One of
Project Sign's advisers, George Valley (Scientific Advisory
Board) said he looked at the reports and could explain 95% of
them. The rest he said were considered lies!!!

Each time the Air Force (early days, now) asked scientists to
advise them, they were told it was all nonsense, truly the "Dark
Ages" which set the stage for the entire Air Force UFO
involvement. Even Gen. Vandenburg, who took the "heat" for
batting down the "Estimate" had advsers that were probably
similar to people like G. Valley, and simply took their advise.

The more we dig, the more we find. If we could just get into the
Navy UFO files...........

Fran





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             Re: 50 People Witness 3 UFOs Over San Bernadino, CA

From: John Hayes <ufoinfo@cableinet.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 16:21:03 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:50:30 -0400
Subject: Re: 50 People Witness 3 UFOs Over San Bernadino, CA

>From: "Stefan Duncan" <duncan@tarheel.net>
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: 50 People Witness 3 UFOs Over San Bernadino, CA
>Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 14:57:20 -0400


>Does anyone have the San Bernadino, Ca MUFON e-mail address?
>Trying to contact Jerry Glass in regards to sighting.

Hello Stefan,

The following is hopefully up to date:

MUFON - INLAND EMPIRE CHAPTER OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
525 West Holly Street
Rialto
CA 92376

Jerry Glass jerryglass@aol.com State Section Director:
(909)794-5880

Cinde Costello Director of Investigations: (909)875-5005

Fax: (909) 875-1031 Attn: MUFON

UFO, ET & Encounter Hotline: (800) 533-2338

http://www.blackhole.net/mufon/

-----

Hope this helps,


John Hayes

ufoinfo@cableinet.co.uk
webmaster@ufoinfo.com

Visit UFOINFO @ http://ufoinfo.com





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                      UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 17

From: Masinaigan <Masinaigan@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:31:10 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:58:28 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 17

Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 17
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:22:32 EDT


     UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 3, Number 17
April 26, 1997
Editor: Joseph Trainor

UFOs CAUSE TWO MORE
BLACKOUTS IN BARILOCHE

     Two more unexplained power failures blacked
out Bariloche last week at the same time people
reported seeing UFOs passing overhead.
     The city, also known as San Carlos de
Bariloche, is a popular resort in the Andes of
Argentina.  Located on the south shore of Lago
(Lake) Nahuel Huapi, the city is about 1,040
kilometers (650 miles) southwest of Buenos Aires.
     The first in the series of inexplicable blackouts
took place Sunday, April 12, 1998 when witnesses
reported seeing two UFOs "fuse together" over
Cerro Carbon (hill).
     On Tuesday night, April 14, 1998, "a great part
of the city was totally darkened."  Cooperativa
Electricidade de Bariloche (CEB), the city's power
company, traced the source of the blackout to the
transmission lines along the Avenida Bustico near
the transformer substation at Puerto Moreno.  CEB
said the sobrecorriente (power surge) "was five to
six times greater than normal."
     In the barrio Melipal, eyewitness Julio Posse
stated, "I saw an interesting glow to the east of the
Cerro Otto (hill).  With my family I saw it from my
yard.  My sons shouted, 'Papa, the OVNIs!'
(Spanish acronym for UFOs--J.T.)  All I said was
'Yes, the OVNIs.'"
     According to the newspaper Diario La Manana
del Sur, "Officially no one has cited the word OVNI.
But, to all of the questions, no one (at CEB) can
explain the phenomenon.  The lines were hit with
a charge of 1,050 amperes.  The automatic meters
at the transformer substation Los Cipresales
indicated the same surge at the moment during which
witnesses sighted OVNIs last Sunday in the skies
over Bariloche."
     CEB spokesman Luis Baigorria said, "At present
we do not have an explanation that can determine
the cause of the surge."
     Claudio Campo, an engineer for CEB, said, "That
which occurred Tuesday night was identical to the
incident Sunday.  But in this case it was reported by
the meters at the substation in Puerto Moreno."
     The third blackout occurred Thursday night,
April 16, 1998.  Again Bariloche was completely
blacked out for several hours.
     Meanwhile reports of UFO sightings poured in
from the Lago Nahuel Huapi shore and the hills
and valleys east of Bariloche.
     A man named Zuber "videotaped an OVNI about
15 kilometers from home, near School #255 at the
intersection of Rutas 23 and 237.  His three-minute
tape shows a great black object with a light that
'shines intently and incessantly' with twinkling
red, blue, yellow and green lights.  The object can
be seen with better clarity when he zooms in.  A
slight luminous halo surrounds the object."
     Zuber's Sony camcorder tape was aired on
Canal (Channel) 6's noontime news broadcast
in Bariloche the following day.
     Other witnesses reported seeing "two or
three OVNIs" flying eastward over the city
towards Cerro Leon" hill.  (See the Argentinian
newspapers Diario la Manana del Sur for
April 15, 1998 and Diario Rio Negro for April 17,
1998, "Filmaron un OVNI Cerca del Cerro Leon
en Bariloche."  Muchas gracias a Carlos Iurchuk
para esas noticias.)

CIGAR-SHAPED UFO HOVERS
OVER A STADIUM IN ECUADOR

     A luminous, cigar-shaped UFO hovered over the
municipal stadium in Guayaquil, Ecuador on Tuesday,
April 21, 1998, at 7 p.m., interrupting a professional
futbol (soccer in the USA--J.T.) game.
     Guayaquil, Ecuador's port city on the Pacific
Ocean, is located 380 kilometers (224 miles)
southwest of Quito, the national capital.
     The game pitted the Guayaquil pro futbol
team against the pro team from Barcelona.
     Midway through the game, people in the stands
noticed "a very bright light" rising in the southwest
sky.  As it drew nearer, more and more spectators
pointed it out and shouted.  The UFO was
described as "a white cigar-shaped object
surrounded by a strong luminosity."
     The UFO crossed the city and then hovered
over the stadium for ten minutes.  A cameraman
for Canal (Channel) 7 in Guayaquil, who was
covering the game, aimed his videocam at the
object.  His footage was broadcasted by Canal 7
the following day.
     The UFO flew away to the north "at a
tremendous velocity."  (See the Brazilian newspaper
Correio Brasiliense for April 22, 1998.  Muito
obrigado a Pedro Cunha por eso caso.)

FIRST CROP CIRCLE
APPEARS IN ISRAEL

     On Thursday, April 16, 1998, Israel Television
Channel One broadcast an interview with Golan
Nasrir, 30, an Israeli Arab who discovered a crop
circle in a wheat field in the Emeq Yisreel (Valley
of Jezreel.)
     The crop circle was found near the village of
Bet Zarzir, located about 40 kilometers (24 miles)
southeast of Haifa.
     According to Israeli journalist Barry Chamish,
"On the evening of April 12, a resident of the Jezreel
Valley Arab village of Bet Zarzir heard dogs bark
wildly, looked outside and saw small lights darting
in a nearby wheat field.  The next day he told his
friend Golan Nasrir about the incident, and he (Golan)
went to the field, thus discovering the crop circle."
     Chamish described the crop circle as "a 26-meter
half-circle with an equally long and straight 'tail'
attached."
     "Within the circle were seven round pods in the
mud.  All vegetation within was killed, and the ground
was severely dessicated compared to the surrounding
soil.  In four of the pods, the soil was covered with a
white powder, while, in the other three pods, there was
a red oily fluid."
     Israeli ufologist Gil Bar painstakingly took samples
of the white powder and red oil.  Chamish showed the
samples to Dr. Marvin Antleman, who reportedly
speculated that the oil might be a derivative of cobalt.
Dr. Antleman is making arrangements to have the
samples analyzed in a laboratory.  (Many thanks to
Barry Chamish for this news story.)

UFOs AGAIN ACTIVE IN
SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA

     On Saturday, April 18, 1998, at 8:30 p.m.,
Richard Macedo was at his home in Temple City,
California (population 31,100), a suburb of Los
Angeles, with his wife and sister.  Macedo is
a 39-year-old quality assurance manager for a
Boeing subcontractor.
     "My sister saw it first," Richard reported,
"She was looking east and saw the object in a one
o'clock position.  She was sitting under a 2-foot eave
so I imagine her viewing angle was around 80 degrees.
My wife responded to my sister's shouting and spied
the object somewhat lower in the sky."
     "I saw the final part of its descent with a large
tree in the foreground, and it seemed to be blinking as
the foliage partially blocked out my view.  But my
sister claimed it was blinking all the way down, even
when it was in the open sky.  It appeared to be
falling at an 85 degrees angle."
     The trio watched the UFO from their porch near
the intersection of Olive Street and Halifax Road
in Temple City.  Richard said the UFO was "utterly
silent" and might have gone down in the area of
lower Azusa Avenue.
     "The object appeared to be illuminating the roof
of the church next door...I thought I might have
noticed a bluish glow from the bottom of the object
before it vanished completely."  (Email Interview)
     On Wednesday, April 22, 1998, Cinde Costello
of San Bernardino MUFON received a phone call
from a woman employed by the Job Corps.  The
woman reported that "fifty people had witnessed
three bright lights heading east towards the Big Bear
mountain area" at about 8:30 p.m.
     San Bernardino (population 164,164) is located
65 miles (84 kilometers) east of Los Angeles.
     At first the woman "thought they might be hang
gliders with lights."  She described the UFOs as
"the lights were bright amber-yellow and appeared
to be floating or hovering.  The three objects then began
to move south and changed color from amber to bright
red.  The objects were viewed for more than 10 minutes."
     The UFOs were an estimated one mile from the
50 witnesses.  Some claimed to have seen a "wing-like
structure or an object with what she described as
'like a seagull's wings.'"
     According to Cinde Costello, a gull-winged UFO
was seen over San Bernardino on January 5, 1998.
(Many thanks to Jerry Glass and Cinde Costello of
MUFON for this news story.)

FLYING-WING UFO SIGHTED
OVER SAN FRANCISCO

     On Saturday, April 18, 1998, at 10:15 p.m.,
designers Amy S. and Jennifer K. were in the
backyard of a home near Army Street in San
Francisco (population 723,959) when Amy
spotted a strange-looking object high in the
sky.
     Jennifer reported, "The object was moving
northwest" over the city "really slow, way up.
We were out looking at the stars--looking for
satellites.  No sound, no trail.  We had it in view for
35 to 40 seconds."
     "There was no fuselage.  It looked like a wing
flying in the air.  No tail section," she added.
"Wings were not bigger than the fuselage because
there wasn't any."  The object was primarily
"perpendicular wings with some sweeping back,
the ends were bent slightly.  It was moving in a
forward direction.  There was no glow, just a faint
gray color.  Other friends of ours didn't see it
because it was so fast.  It seemed very high up."
(Email Interview)

MARFA MYSTERY LIGHTS
DAZZLE FAMILY IN TEXAS

     On March 13, 1998, at 7 p.m., Nicole Prescott and
her grandmother, mother and sister were at their home
near Marfa, Texas (population 2,424) when the area's
most puzzling phenomenon--the Marfa Lights--made a
sudden appearance.
     The lights appeared "at 70 to 75 degrees above the
horizon.  They were crackling bright lights of white and
orange."
     Nicole reported, "They seemed to come towards you.
Some were the size of a basketball.  Others were no
bigger than the head of a pencil."
     The Marfa Lights were first reported in 1881 by a
local cowboy.  A Japanese scientific team videotaped
them in 1994.  Science has never been able to explain
the mysterious darting lights, which usually appear over
Mitchell's Flat, southwest of Chinati Mountain.
     Marfa is at the junction of U.S. Highways 67 and 90,
about 194 miles (310 kilometers) southeast of El Paso.
     According to Nicole, a local man was driving across
the flat prairie north of the Cuseto del Punto mountains
last winter when a Marfa light entered his car through
the rear window, hovered over the back seat hissing
and crackling, and then vanished several minutes later.
(See American UFO Newsletter #7 for 1998.  Many
thanks to editor Stefan Duncan for this news story.)

GLOWING TRIANGULAR UFO
SIGHTED IN FRANCE

     On Wednesday, April 15, 1998, at 11:40 p.m.,
law clerk T. Tony was at his home on the Rue d'Authie
in the quartier Chemin Vert in Caen, a city in northern
France, when he spied a triangular UFO.
     "I found myself at home when my attention was
drawn to the window by a luminosity in the night
sky, which that night was very clear," M. Tony reported.
"The moon was in its first quarter but could not be seen,
the wind slight and there were few clouds.  It (the UFO)
appeared to be a luminous mass, vaguely triangular,
like a triangle with rounded edges but very sharp in
the front.  It was a bright orange luminosity, with a band
of light red across the middle that was quite visible.
It was followed by a red rectilinear hind part.  There
weren't any beacons or clusters of lights."
     "The object was in rapid descent when I saw it,
but without any noise.  In 20 seconds, the object
performed a multitude of aerobatic maneuvers that
did not appear to have any logical purpose, passing
in pirouette and looping without ever changing its
speed.  Then it left my field of view, and I saw
nothing more."
     Caen is in Normandy, in the department
Calvados, about 250 kilometers (150 miles) west
of Paris.  (Merci beaucoup a Franck Marie et
Banque OVNI pour ces nouvelles.)
(Editor's Note: In July 1944, Caen was the site of
a big battle of World War II.)

FLOURESCENT GREEN UFO
SPOTTED IN AUSTRALIA

     On Saturday, April 4, 1998, at 10:30 p.m.,
residents of Healesville, Victoria state, Australia
spotted "a flouro (flourescent) green illumination
crossing the northern sky."
     The UFO flew very quickly and "traveled from
the east to the north, taking about five seconds
to pass.  There was no sound, no tail and no
trail.  The respondents described it as 'a green
fireball.'  It appeared to be the size of a half-moon."
     Healesville is 120 kilometers (72 miles)
northeast of Melbourne.  (Many thanks to Ross
Dowe and the Australia/New Zealand 24-Hour
UFO Hotline for this report.)

IRISHMAN REPORTS UFO
SIGHTING IN DUBLIN

     On April 2, 1998, at about 5 p.m., David
Martin "was walking in an area called
Blanchardstown" in Dublin, capital city of
Eire.  As he approached "the Bell Pub, I saw
an object flash across the sky.  It stopped and
hovered over my head.  It seemed circular in
shape.  It flew off to the east in the direction
of Raheny."  (Many thanks to John Thompson
of ISUR and David Martin for this report.  See
Filer's Files #15 for 1998.)

SATURN-SHAPED UFO
BACK IN NORTH CAROLINA

     On Monday, April 20, 1998, Stefan Duncan, editor
of American UFO Newsletter (AUFON) began a skywatch
"on a pier approximately 300 yards (270 meters) east of
Panter's Point" on High Rock Lake.  The lake is located
just east of Salisbury, North Carolina (population 23,087),
a city on Highway 29 about 115 miles (184 kilometers)
west of Raleigh.
     At 9:45 p.m., "looking towards the east end of the
lake, I saw my reddish UFO," Duncan reported.  "Similar
to the one I saw April 2, an object whose light was a
non-blinking reddish-white" with "the shape of Saturn
when the rings are seen edge on.  The object was
probably a mile down the lake.  The object rose from
the treetops and hovered for about five minutes and
then descended."
     At 10 p.m., the UFO "moved from the treetops but
just to the top of the trees and went no higher."  An
attempt to videotape the object failed when Duncan's
camcorder jammed.  "It stayed in position for two
seconds before descending."
     At 10:14 p.m., "the object rose a third time but
just over the treetops.  It brightened, then went back
to normal glow.  After two minutes, it descended."
     The UFO flap began December 15, 1997 when
local resident James Minster spotted four flat discs
hovering over High Rock Lake.  (See American UFO
Newsletter #7.  Many thanks to Stefan Duncan for
this report.)

WHITE TUBULAR UFO SEEN
IN NORTHERN NEW JERSEY

     On Friday, April 17, 1998, at 7:30 p.m., Sam
Sherman and his wife were driving to dinner on
Route 516 in Old Bridge, New Jersey (population
6,090), heading for nearby East Brunswick, when
Sam spotted a UFO.
     "Directly overhead storm clouds were gathering,
although low on the horizon," Sherman reported.
"The sky was still blue and the sun was shining
brightly prior to setting.  I looked up in the sky and
saw what looked like a contrail between two clouds.
It was like no contrail (condensation trail--J.T.) I had
ever seen, and it moved forward in a northerly
direction (towards New York City--J.T.) but did not
have a tail or vapor or smoke behind it."
     "This was of definite and finite length.  To
describe what I saw, as follows--at arm's length, it
appeared to be 3 or 4 inches (6 or 8 centimeters) in
length and tubular in shape.  The color was white but
with luminescent color overlying a bluish-green tinge.
As the sun appeared to be behind it, the object did
not appear to be reflecting the sun's rays...The tubular
bright object was moving north and threading its way
through the clouds."  He eventually lost sight of the
UFO "behind a dark cloud to the north."  (See Filer's
Files #15 for 1998. Many thanks to George A. Filer,
Eastern MUFON director, for this report.)

AIR SYSTEM FAILURE MAY
SHORTEN NEUROLAB FLIGHT

     The space shuttle Columbia may have to end
its 15-day Neurolab mission days earlier than
planned because of a failure in the spacecraft's
air cleansing system.
     Columbia blasted off from Cape Canaveral,
Florida on April 17,  Aboard are seven astronauts,
led by pilot Scott Altman and mission commander
Rick Searloss, and animals scheduled for inflight
tests, including 152 rats, 18 pregnant mice, 60
snails, 75 snail eggs, 1,514 baby crickets and 233
swordtail fish.
     The shuttle, nicknamed Altman's Ark, now holds
the record for the largest number of passengers--
living creatures from Earth--to enter outer space.
     "If Columbia's crew can't fix a unit designed to
remove carbon dioxide from the cabin air, the
spacecraft may have to return to Earth late
Wednesday or early Thursday, several days early."
     "NASA Mission Control spokesman James
Hartsfield said the carbon dioxide system may be
repairable."
     "In the meantime, the astronauts are using cans
of lithium hydroxide which cleans carbon dioxide out
of the air chemically.  They've got enough cans to
last seven days."  (See the New York Post for
April 26, 1998, "Shuttle landing is up in the air.)

from the UFO Files...

1937: STRANGE CRUISE OF
           THE O.M. McFARLAND

     One of the weirdest disappearances in the history
of the Lake Michigan Triangle occurred on April 28,
1937, sixty-one years ago.
     According to the Cleveland Press, "A new mystery
of the Great Lakes was unfolded today when the
freighter O.M. McFarland docked in Port Washington,
Wisconsin and crew members reported the
disappearance of the ship's master."
     It was a big day for the McFarland's skipper,
Captain George R. Donner--his fifty-eighth birthday.
Born in 1879, Donner "had sailed for ten years on
the old Valley Camp Steamship Company boats
until the firm was taken over by Columbia
(Transportation Company).  It was his first command
under the Columbia house flag, although he had
been on the lakes for years and had served as a
skipper for several of them."
     Days earlier, the McFarland had picked up 9,800
tons of coal at the dock in Erie, Pennsylvania.  The
vessel sailed out of Lake Erie, across Lake Huron,
and through the Straits of Mackinac into Lake
Michigan.
     "At 10:15 p.m. on the night of April 28, 1937,"
Captain Donner "left the pilot house, giving instructions
to the second mate to call him when the McFarland
was off her destination of Port Washington, Wisconsin,
some three hours hence.  Stating that he wanted to
get a couple of hours sleep, he went below, out of sight
of the mate and the wheelman.  The desire for rest was
understandable, for the McFarland, on her first trip of
the season, had encountered the usual heavy ice in the
Straits of Mackinac, losing considerable time.  And,
once in northern Lake Michigan, a sharp watch had
to be kept for roving ice fields."
     "After leaving the pilot house, Captain Donner must
have busied himself with paperwork before retiring, for
he was later heard moving around in his room."
     "At 1:15 a.m. (April 29, 1937--J.T.) as the
McFarland neared Port Washington, the mate, as
instructed, descended to the captain's room to
summon him.  There was no response to his
knocking on the door, so the second officer opened
it and peered in, assuming that the captain was
merely sleeping heavily.  But Captain Donner was
not in the bed or anywhere else in sight."
     "On the possibility that the captain had walked
aft to get coffee or partake of the night lunch, the
mate hurried back to the galley, but except for a
couple of off-duty firemen finishing a midnight
snack, it was deserted.  Quickly summoning the
other mate and the chief engineer, he organized a
thorough search of the McFarland, crew members
combing every nook and cranny of the thirty-four
year-old vessel.  Without a doubt, Captain Donner
had disappeared!"
     Yes, indeed, Captain Donner had vanished
from his locked room.  There was no other hatch
except the one leading into the companionway,
and he was too large to pass through the room's
two portholes.  No one had seen him in the
companionway between midnight and 1:15 a.m.,
when the mate knocked on his door.
     Interestingly, during this critical hour, the
McFarland was 30 miles (48 kilometers) northwest
of Ludington, Michigan.  Ludington is reputed to
be the nexus of the Lake Michigan Triangle.
     "Ships along the McFarland's route were asked
to keep a watch for Donner's body, and the same
request was passed on to communities along
the shore."
     "Captain Donner's body never did turn up, and
his disappearance from his cabin aboard ship is as
much a mystery now as it was in 1937."
(See STRANGE ADVENTURES OF THE GREAT
LAKES by Dwight Boyer, Freshwater Press,
Cleveland, Ohio, 1974, pages 223 to 225.  Also
THE GREAT LAKES TRIANGLE by Jay Gourley,
Fawcett Publications, Inc., Greenwich, Conn.
1977, page 176.  Also GATEWAY TO OBLIVION
by Hugh Cochrane, Avon Books, New York, NY,
1980, pages 34 and 35.  And the Cleveland
(Ohio) Press for April 29, 1937.)

FUN UFO WEBSITES:
     Mars continues to interest the UFO community.
Check out MUFOR's image of Cydonia at this site:
http://www.mufor.org/ares/mgs/structure-comp.jpg
     The Pathfinder Anomalies Analysis Group has a
site at http://mufor.org/mars.html
     Stephen Miles Lewis has an Anomalous
Experience page devoted to Forteana at his site.
Drop in at http://www.sogweb.com/~elfin/links/
ELFLinks1.html
     More on recent crop circles in the UK, the
Netherlands and Israel can be seen at Circles
Phenomenon Research (CPR-Canada).  Try them
at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310
     There's more Forteana available at Jacques
Poulet's site at http://www.generation.net/~jpoulet
     Kenneth Green of UFO TIMES has a new
page that organizes sightings in the USA on a
state-by-state basis.  Drop in and look it over at
http://ufo-times.home.ml.org
     Definitely not to be missed is our parent
site, UFO INFO, with its vast array of news,
photos and features.  Check it out at this URL:
http://ufoinfo.com
     Back issues of UFO ROUNDUP can be
accessed and downloaded at our website at
http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/

     On this date sixty-five years ago, i.e. on
April 26, 1933, physicist Arno Allen Pezias
was born.  In 1978, Pezias won the Nobel Prize
for his discovery of the existence of microwave
cosmic radiation in space.

     That's it for this week.  We'll be back next Sunday
with more saucer news from "the paper that goes
home--UFO ROUNDUP."  See you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1998 by Masinaigan
Productions, all rights reserved.  Readers may post
news items from UFO ROUNDUP on their websites
or in newsgroups provided that they credit the
newsletter and its editor by name and list the date





   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 26

                    Re: Any More News Regarding Roswell?

From: KRandle993 <KRandle993@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:11:01 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:31:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Any More News Regarding Roswell?

In a message dated 98-04-26 11:02:26 EDT, you write:


 From: KRandle993 <KRandle993@aol.com> [Kevin Randle]
 Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 09:45:19 EDT
 To: updates@globalserve.net
 Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: JPL 'Kent' Exposed

 >Subject: JPL 'Kent' Exposed
 >Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:14:28 +0100
 >From: Ralf Zeigermann <kag15@dial.pipex.com>
 >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>


 >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:09:10 -0400
 >>Subject: JPL 'Kent' Exposed

 > Oww ... an obvious nutcase has now been 'exposed' by Oates and
 > Hoagland? A cover-up? Why? Disinformation? Why?

 > Why do we have to deal with this crap here on the UpDates list?

 > Why do we still have to deal and seriously discuss Boylan's
 > findings about the Vatican, when Eduardo proved that it was
 > nothing more than BS? (and that was a good one, Eduardo - carry
 > on!)  Why do we have to discuss the 'Face on Mars' when there
 > obviously is _no_ face?

 Hear, Hear.

 > Are there any more news regarding Roswell (Kevin, where are
 >you?!)?

Yes, but it's bad. Glenn Dennis invented his nurse, and probably
had nothing to do with the case.

J. Bond Johnson is now billing himself as the "Roswell
Photographer" though he only photographed the remains of a
balloon in General Ramey's office. He is denying that he told me
that Ramey told him it was a balloon. He is denying that he said
that he wrote the story in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, which he
told me. It's all on tape. Even after hearing the tapes, he
denies it.

Jim Ragsdale so changed his story that he is useless as a witness
to anything. He sold out for money. He signed to mutually
exclusive affidavits.

The case has become so confused by so many people with their own
agendas that it is becoming difficult to sort the truth from the
fiction. Some see it as a way of making money, some see it as a
way of gaining the spotlight, and some see it as a danger to
their own belief structures. We have the Air Force issuing
multiple final reports, some with conclusions so ridiculous that
even the news media was rejecting them.

But, when all is said in done, we have every member of Colonel
Blanchard's staff who was alive to talk to us telling us that
what was recovered was not a balloon. Patrick Saunders wrote on
the flyleaf to

[Seems Kevin stopped keying here... -- ebk]

Let's just say I was AOLed] to finish...

THE TRUTH ABOUT THE UFO CRASH AT ROSWELL "Here is
the truth and I haven't told anybody anything." In other words,
a man in a position to know, who had no motivation at all, was
suggesting that there had been a UFO crash at Roswell.

I should also mention Edwin Easley who said the same sort
of thing as did others.

And where did this idea that there were no ground based radars
at Roswell come from? Yeah, they traveled around practicing
radar bombing at various locations, but that doesn't mean that
such facilities didn't exist in Roswell. They finally got their
Ground Controlled Approach system working in August which
means the radars were in place before then.

Oh well.

KRandle





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 26

               Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 15:04:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 15:43:10 -0400
Subject: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

>Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 09:56:29 +0200
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs


>>Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:03:42 GMT
>>From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re:  UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

>>That's the most explainable and probable scenario.  It wobbled
>>too much to be a real flying machine - especially from another
>>world.

>And just where is the logic behind this one? I doubt strongly
>that you're much of a true expert on the mechanics of a real
>extraterrestrial craft to "know" what can or cannot be. It's all
>opinion with no basis in fact, no one can tell beforehand if an
>extraterrestrial "saucer" wobbles too much or far too less, or
>should not even wobble at all. I'm not saying the Mexico film
>is real, your "argument" just has no merit.

I was reminded (by a friend) about a post that Greg Sandow
wrote about a year ago called, "Objectivity." It's worth a
trip back to the UpDates archive just to re-read it. It's
relevant to Rogers' remarks about how "alien craft wouldn't
wobble." How do _you_ know, Roger, how an "alien craft" would
behave? 'Wobbling' may be perfectly 'normal' behavior for
whatever type of magnetic field propulsion system they may
be using!  (For all any of _us_ know)

>Aside from that, "wobbling" behavior has been consistently
>present in quite a number of UFO reports, you might want to
>check Paul Hill's "Unconventional Flying Objects" for details,
>or see NICAP's "UFO Evidence" for reports.

I have had several "sightings" (some of them multiple witness)
and I have observed this odd 'wobbling' on _more_than_one_
occasion_. That's eyewitness testimony.

Again, please refer to Greg Sandows post!

It's a rainy (peaceful) Sunday afternoon here in the Big Apple
so I'm going to that I'm seeing flying saucers and that I've
been abducted by aliens. <HEE-HAW>

Peace,

John Velez ;-)







   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 26

                      The Armchair Ufologist - Issue 3

From: ej77@dial.pipex.com (Mike Wootten)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 20:15:16 GMT
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 18:01:25 -0400
Subject: The Armchair Ufologist - Issue 3


Tough on Ufology - Tough on the Causes of Ufology
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----

The Armchair Ufologist

issue three

Those whom the gods wish to destroy they first make ufologists

----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----

Countdown to Ecstasy?

Newbie watchers will have noted the emergence, over the past year or
so, of one 'Max Burns' onto the scene. Hailing from the Yorkshire's
very own Rotherham Triangle, Max is an out and out ET believer. By
some quirk of strangeness he caught the wave at the right time and
ended up writing quite a lot (of rubbish) for Alien Encounters
magazine. But they liked him and he fitted in well with that 'zine's
uncritical viewpoint and make-money-at-any(one's)-expense ethos.

Indeed, last year at the BUFORA disaster in Sheffield when it was
mooted that Alien Encounters magazine form some kind of union with
BUFORA, using A.E. as BUFORAs house zine I suggested to editor Ninny
Pennydreadful that this would only take place if Maxy boy was dropped.
'Can't do that' she replied.

Alien Encounters' sales figures suggest they are now reaping what they
sow.
Fairysnuff.

Time passed and Max and I duly insulted each other at the opening
night of The Unexplained exhibition in Bradford. He was so insulted
that he later 'phoned me up and told me that he was 'having a spot of
bother with the police'. This spot of bother, according to Max, and
all the other ufologists who have told me since, was that he'd been
lifted in possession of 1000 tabs of ecstasy and had been charged with
possession with intent to supply same.

This would all be just tough cookies if it wasn't for the reasons Max
gives. Which are:

Max says it's all a fit up, and believes he is being 'got at' by The
Establishment. Why? Because he's an ace ufologist and knows secrets so
terrible has to be silenced. Lawdy. Worse still other ufologists such
as Miles Johnstone agree with him! Mad as lorries the lot of 'em.

When I spoke to Max he confidently assured me that he was going to
call Tim Good as a witness (because 'everybody knows he's a government
agent') and therefore the case would collapse.

That's Max Logic for you.

Let's see if that really happens pilgrims, or if it's just another
fantasy.

Several seasoned ufologists have wondered if his real name isn't Max
Boyce (actually it's not even Max Burns, can you guess what it is?).
Whatever his paranoid ramblings about fit ups and cover ups, the
forces of lawn order seem to think otherwise and he has been committed
to Crown Court. And the charge of Ecstasy 'dropped' to amphetamine,
which raises another problem - if Max is found guilty was he ripped
off or was he going to rip someone else off? It's a murky world out
there kids.

I have to say here that ecstasy and any amphetamine derivative, these
days, in my opinion is a crap drug anyway only suitable for dumb
clubbers - but each to his own I suppose.

Can't buy a thrill eh?

We'd say Happy Trials to Max but I suspect it won't be and that we may
have to wait quite some time before Max can enlighten me as to the
nature of the alien base under the Midland bank at Chapletown,
Sheffield, not to mention how I'll just never get to know about the
Tornado jet which was taken by a UFO last year in the infamous 'Peak
District Crash' scenario.

Speaking of which. Ace researcher (and soon to be 'Dr', courtesy of a
PhD) Dave Clarke has wrapped up the aforementioned South Yorkshire UFO
crash and in a rare feat of good research (rare for ufology not for
Wavy Davy) he has proved conclusively that it was all caused by
military aircraft breaking the sound barrier and covering it up. Long
story but you'll be able to read about it in the Brothers' Grimm 'UFO
'zine shortly.

'Political Dynamite' as Graham used to say in the heady days of Quest
International.

Anyway the also aforementioned Max thought he had the vaguest inkling
of what had gone on with this case and got a right strop on when he
found Dave wasn't playing at ufology and had actually solved it.

Cue the Max Factor.

Max took to making abusive 'phone calls to Dave at work and used 'bad
boys language' to boot.

Sad really but there y'go. I'm afraid Max just can't accept that his
beloved case is a complexity of mundanities which caused and not
aliens blah blah blah blah.

In his best defence of the nonsense he believes Max took to alleging
that anyone who disbelieved in his theories was working for 'Intel'.
We presume he meant the intelligence services and not the people who
make computer chips.

My how we laughed - but only after we'd been given permission to do so
by MI5 of course.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----

The Miles Files

Miles Johnstone anybody? Long time BUFORA member, used to be big in an
Irish UFO group, works for SKY TV, used to be sensible, has a penchant
for hard co.......ooops can't penetrate that one any further, but we
have the evidence. Anyway we discovered that Miles was in league with
Maxy baby. Miles had been up to Sheffield to do some filming for
something to do with the alleged 'crash' which was to be presented to
the BUFORA AGM meeting. Now BUFORA look pretty stupid as it is, how
they could think to put on - totally uncritically - a video conjured
up by Messers Johnstone and Burns - god only knows.

So I emailed Miles J and told him that research had been done which
made any ET interpretation somewhat invalid. I also asked him to
contact Dave to check things out so a more balanced view could be
offered at the AGM.

Oh dear!Miles replied:

I asked Dave to contact me, as I was going to Sheffield on Friday.
He has not returned my call.

When I ask someone to contact me, as I am in his area, and he cannot
even return the call:- obviously they have nothing to say.

So please do not ask me to contact someone who is so rude as to avoid
me in the first place.
When you are constructing a cover story, be so prudent as to avoid
making so many holes in the first place.
The problem with unknown craft is, that they have the troublesome
problem of not doing what they are told to do, i.e. not exist.
When coming up with cover stories, it is also advisable to come up
with definitions which are correct.
If a Bollide had been over Sheffield, then most of middle england
would not exist, as a Bollide IMPACTS, i.e. is not an air burst.
Suggest you talk to the witnesses and tell them they did not see the
bodies being taken from the water,  because, they were not supposed
to.  But then we are not SUPPOSED to see anything are we.?   As
nothing is happening, and we are all happy little johnnies.
Obviously the expression of a point of view is a crime in BUFORA.
I am sure your contacts in "intel" will be informing you of my status
in these affairs by now anyway.
I shall expect the knock at dawn.... or do they do it remotely these
days... heard someone's house went up not too recently, for asking to
many questions.

The bottom line is that you lot have blown it, and it is time, if ever
there was, a more professional lot will take over, which I am sure
will happen, as sure as day becomes night.
MJ

The above is 'sic', if not 'sick'. But you get the idea where Miles is
coming from? Yeah, a small galaxy just to the right of Zeta Reticulli.
Wearied by this paranoid nonsense I asked him what he meant in the
last paragraph, all that stuff about people's houses 'going up'. Tell
me who these people are/were Miles, tell me where their house is/was.
I guaranteed him I could prove he was talking what Father Ted would
call 'shite'.

Needless to say I didn't get a reply to that one.

Another scattershot email from Miles came across my bows later.
Apropos of nothing it went:

received your threatening email.
During the taping of the report....   a simple report on a UFO,
I have had quite sufficient attention thank you.
exposing yourself in this manner is quite pathetic.
usual measures are in effect.
Max has no email address, as he is unemployed, and due to be remanded
until November.
He made every effort to get his side of the story across.
A simple video of someone's report is such a
threat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Be happy I have such patience.
But do they?
Miles . J

Again I present it in all it's sic-ness. Note the expression 'usual
measures are in place'. This comes hot from the Barry King phrasebook
as anyone who gets THE VOICE will know. Miles is a King acolyte and
the two often discuss tunnels of an evening over a cup of Ovaltine.

Keeping one eye on the door of course in case 'they' come for them.

Natch.

Miles then forwarded Max Burns' replies to David's latest findings.
This was more of the same unsubstantiated garbage he has come out with
before. But Miles added his own little coda which went:

ETH is a well out of date 70s concept anyway.   As you have clearly
not noticed things have moved along since.   It was 4 years ago that
I showed an interview with a senior engineer who actually works with
the Greys and Reptilians, and the other types, in making our versions
of their craft.  But then you probably missed that.

The unusual use of the Queen's English is again all Miles'.

So, the ETH is an outdated concept? I'll go for that one Miles. And
because you've talked to a crazy who spun you a yarn we're supposed to
believe it? I think not.

There's more.

Miles wasn't going to be put off by anyone doing research which
produced results when speculation was to be had. Another extract from
the Miles Files delivered the killer blow:

Whilst editing the brief  video report for BUFORA, who I was livid
about, for NOT showing I was visited by 2 transdimensional entities,
one of whom chose to sit on my right knee, and observe the edit.

Lap-dancing transdimensionals eh. Conjure for yourselves readers the
thought of Miles trying to edit a video with a trans-dimensional
entity' sat on his knee. It's an enduring image and let's face it,
we've all been there.
But Miles has it all under control......

'I have already been told that the usual sources which deal with the
cover for such events have made a right mess of the Sheffield case,
including the drugs charges on Max, and the subsequent police who have
dealt with the case. '

Note well readers this is the level of ufology, and of ufological
debate, which the literalists think actually counts for something.

I could barely get this issue of TAU to the printers because Miles
kept bombarding me with stupidity. His last long email - so far -
rambled on about pirate radio stations, abducted DJs, the checking of
SKY TV personnel by intelligence agents and so on and on. His crowning
moment was some idiocy about secret messages encoded in music:

If you are not aware of the encoding being used in music, and its
influence in society, then I imagine you will not see the link between
the drug scene, certain pirate radio, and how it is manipulated, then
I suggest you start finding out.

No, this isn't Gordon Creaking writing, it's still Miles. But I think
we know where he's heading children, don't we? I don't think we've
heard the last of the Sheffield UFO 'crash', or Max, or Miles. We'll
keep you updated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----

Paranoia Strikes Deep- Into Your Heart It Will Creep

Paranoia, as you have seen, is at its worst ever at the moment on the
UK UFO scene. Everyone you speak to accuses everyone else of being an
agent of disinformation or a debunker or whatever. None of these
charges are ever proven and it seems to me that when the subject is in
meltdown with no real research being done then that's when the witch
hunts start.

The Internet, whilst being a fantastic research tool has exacerbated
the loony tendencies ufologists have and rumours can now be spread ten
times faster than ever before.

Where once the slow transmission of information by post and telephone
led to consideration and reflection, things are now radically
different. If someone has an ill-advised thought it has become a
theory by tea-time, a fact before bedtime and is in a magazine or book
within months. It is then irrefutable and anyone who does attempts
criticism is working for the........and round and round and round and
round we go.

Take the Rendlesham Forest case. In recent months new details have
come forward which strongly suggests that the whole series of events
over two night was - like the Sheffield crash case- a complex series
of misidentifications and misperceptions.

Even its principal investigator Jenny Randles has been quoted as
saying 'Rendlesham is at best half the case it was and may turn out to
have been little of any substance after all.'  But I bet she changes
her mind!

Researcher James Easton has done terrific in depth research on this
case and come up with original statements from Rendlesham witnesses. I
won't go into the details here - it will be all over the UFO press
soon enough. I suggest that those of you with Internet connections
have a look at Easton's spiffy homepage at:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pulsar/

Of course this sort of real research was too much for many and without
thinking or considering the evidence (or in fact without many of the
goons actually having read much about the original case) people leapt
to the defence. Elder statesman of ufology (i.e. old bloke with a lot
of books) Richard Hall just couldn't hack it at all and bleated and
baa'd in an arrogant fashion, as did others from across the waters.

James Easton responded delicately but firmly by re-iterating what he
had discovered, comparing it with what was know and drawing the
inevitable conclusions.

No.

Still didn't work.

It seems that a great many ufologists are so narrow minded that they
cannot conceive of any other explanation than the exotic. Moreover
they haven't the faintest idea about the nature of misidentification,
misperception, the workings of the human brain, transmission of
folklore or probably what day it is.

Of course Easton was immediately denounced as a debunker, despite him
once being a staunch supporter of the case. The people who denounced
him just cannot accept that any of their military personnel could be
subject to a massive misperception, the corpse of which has been
picked over by ufologists ever since.

Joined up thinking is as new a concept to some of our American
colleagues as it is to the believing bunch here I'm afraid. The UK
backlash hasn't really kicked in yet - but it will. Look out for
Matthew Williams et al on their high horse about it and I predict a
Jenny Randles 'well, the case isn't as bad as we first thought because
there are still unexplained factors' damage limitation exercise -
followed by a book, of course!

And that's how it goes. Even if Col. Halt signed a statement in Larry
Warren's blood saying he had misidentified the lighthouse no-one would
now believe him because, well because Rendlesham begins with an 'R'
like Roswell, and therefore an alien craft must have crashed there.

Halt has apparently written a book on the incident, due later this
spring. Rendlesham groupies will no doubt seize on its every full
stop. Quite frankly I think whatever he writes is redundant now that
the original witness statements are available. All else is conjecture.
It will also depend on whether Halt is seduced by the lure of money as
to what he writes. Of course if he does explain the incident in terms
of misidentification and misperception the believers will say he's
been 'got at' and if he says it was exotic and unexplained it goes
against the witnesses statements.

We are still awaiting the book penned by the Lighthouse about the
strange lights and Americans with tape recorders it saw in the forest
in December 1981.

If you want a good example of how ufologists think check out the
UFO UpDates mailing list (you can find the archives via the UFOMIND
site). It's a constant babble of half formed speculation, pseudo-truth
and pseudo-religious yearning. But well worth a look nevertheless.

You will:

SEE famous ufologists dodge the issue. THRILL as they ignore facts.
WONDER at what nonsense they will come out with next.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----

Apocalypse Maiow

Everyones favourite ufologist, Harry Harris, has been in the news
recently. Older readers will recall that Mr Harris, a solicitor by
trade, is keen to defend his views and opinions.

So much so that several ufologists have been threatened with legal
action by him for merely disagreeing with some of the strange claims
he has made.

Like Alan Godfrey was abducted by aliens - yeah, as if.

Of course legal action and belief in aliens are Harry's prerogative.
But it does seem a little odd to defend one's opinions via the law
courts andnot in open debate. Anyway.....

Harry was also instrumental in the legal action that Stanton Freidman,
once an Unclear Physicist and now a ufologist by tirade, took against
Jenny Randles in 1989 simply because she disagreed with Freidmans
claims and alleged he was a fanatic. The fact that this was in private
correspondence to a journalist who blabbed and then refused to back
Jenny up makes things all the more seedy. But then journalists are all
partakers of Satans semen so we shouldnt be at all surprised.

This cost Jenny a lot of money, as the UK libel laws are fundamentally
corrupt and date from another times forgotten place and class system.


Basically if you've got the money and the time you will invariably
win.

Its also always puzzled me how Harry could write legal letters using
himself as  his own solicitor - thus saving money whilst the people he
threatens action against have to fund their own defence. The legal
profession serves only itself I'm afraid.

I too have my Harry file where his threatening legal letters are
lovingly stored for when the social history of ufology is written.

Anyway we digress, but suffice it to say many ufologists have a place
in their hearts for Harry. So imagine my surprise when the February
3rd issue of the Manchester Evening News ran a short piece entitled
Lawyers Pet Threat which reported that Harry was to appear before
magistrates on charges of making threats to kill and possessing a
firearm with intent to cause fear. According to the article Harry had
allegedly threatened to shoot a pensioners dog which had chased his
cat up a tree.

Obviously this case has not yet come to court. We are merely reporting
the Manchester Evening News account of the charges and offer no
comment or opinion.

 As we go to press the M.E.N. ran another piece, stating that Harry
had been bailed until May 5th for Crown Court committal proceedings.

As Harry is a well known ufologist we merely note the facts of the
matter as reported by the M.E.N.

A posse - should that be pussy - of  northern ufologists will be in
attendance at the May 5th hearing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----

North Of The Border News

Scottish councillor and UFO fancier Billy Buchanan has been banned
from every committee and sub-committee until the local government
elections there in 1999. Moreover he can now only communicate with
council staff by fax or letter! The furore all stems from Buchanan's
general behaviour and he has been accused of:

*Calling chief officers 'a band of vagabonds who are like leeches'
*Accusing the chief executive of racist behaviour merely because they
didn't want a Kraut Kamara Krew filming in the council building.......


And so on. Typical behaviour for an aggrieved ufologist whatever their
profession I'm sure you'll agree. It's nice to know those involved in
the democratic political process have such a firm grip on reality.

After losing the vote Billy questioned whether he was 'living in
Bonnybridge or Baghdad'. Geography, along with politics, is obviously
not a stongpoint among some of our Scottish brethren.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Lights, Camera, Action

Now, some real ufology!

February 2nd 1998. Several hundred people saw two bright lights fly
slowly from west to east across the Pennines. Aeroplanes! No, they
flew too slow, too low and too together. Airports said they had
nothing on their screens. The press received hundreds of reports and
two videos of the objects were taken. Should be easily solved then eh?


Er, no.

Of course ufologists in the area seized on this as a UFO, which
strictly speaking it was. UFO magazine determined it was the best
sighting since, oooo, since the last one. Their special report hasn't
appeared yet but I'm told it will be comprehensive and may even
include facts!

Usually anything witnessed by more than two men and a dog almost
certainly has a mundane explanation  - but what could it be?

BUFORA's NIC's (National Investigations Committee) John Heptonstall
has studied this case sensibly and in depth. By viewing the videos and
collating the testimony of over 30 witnesses he was able to plot a
flight path and determine various characteristics. It seems that the
two objects were almost certainly helicopters or RPVs of some sort.

OK, so why the fuss? Why should all official sources deny any
knowledge? Because it was a secret operation?  What - over the major
conurbations of northern England? Not likely! And anyway, if it was a
'secret' why were the craft flying with huge lights on them?

Well how about this.....

Whatever agency was flying these craft sent them over built up areas
and with lights on intentionally. They then monitor public opinion via
the press, which then gives them the feedback they need.

You can imagine the conversation as Bert and Sid, the MODs top men,
discuss the incident:

"How's it hanging Bert. What's new?"
"Well we flew the two X14%^'s over northern England in February as
planned Sid"
"Did anyone see the structure Bert?"
"No the lights completely obliterated it Sid"
"Any problems Bert?"
"Nah Sid"
"What did people think they were Bert?"
"UFOs Sid."
"Suckers, Bert."
"Yeah suckers, Sid."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----

A Hypothesis Too Far?

This is just an extension of the Federal Hypothesis, which has it that
a government will use the UFO mythos for their own ends. The F.H.
receives all too little attention in my opinion. Far too complicated
several people have said. But it's not at all.

The beauty of the Federal Hypothesis from the official point of view
is that the public create and nuture it. They do the majority of the
work for them. No secret departments necessary, no hidden files
needed. No one has to be employed to work for the government because
ufologists unknowingly volunteer to do it for free.

The press is happy to go along with any silly season nonsense because
it means they get 'good' copy without having to do any work and all
government departments have to do is to answer any questions which are
posed.

Any problems here are got over by semantic gymnastics and usually by
answering exactly what is asked within the standard AS2a party line
about 'no defence significance'.

Or is that just my imagination, running away with me?

Anyone who has seen the bloke at Leeds/Bradford airport on TV denying
he knew what these things were immediately knows he's lying as he
smirks something about extraterrestrials. These things were meant to
be seen. Anyone who believes they were anything other than terrestrial
craft is a sap. Simple as that.

Back to life, but not necessarily back to reality........

----------------------------------------------------------------------

We've Got To Page 7 And Not Mentioned BUFORA So We'd Better Do So Now

As usual a great deal of this newsletter concerns itself with the
petty minutiae, in-fighting and squabbles from a very tiny little bit
of the ufological political scene.

Why, you ask. Well, quite simply because I feel that people have a
right to know about how ufology runs itself, about what ufologists say
and do to prevent freedom of ideas, opinions and change. And it has
always been my opinion that certainly in BUFORA there are factions at
work which have actively prevented any change or progression.

Some of these people are on council, some just council hangers on.
They've been around since the 70s and before and really need dealing
with.

Why does any of this matter? isn't it just petty political
in-fighting?
Yes.
But.
Because.
BUFORA for all their faults -  and they are many  - are well
established, with a good world wide reputation and an infra structure
for actually being a major force in ufology.

Pity its not maximised.

They produce nothing and live on their reputation, taking =A320 a year
from people, offering a scratty magazine in return which is so out of
date by the time the member reads it, it was hardly worth the bother.
I've paid my =A320 and that gives me - and all the other members- the
right to criticise until something happens.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The Law Of The Bungle

BUFORAs totally fantastic web site has as many of you know its own
private members area where sage ufologists probe the mysteries of the
universe.

But what's this? Some nasty, rough, boys hijacked the site for their
own uses. Thus we were treated to the 'wit' of one 'Bert Buttock' -
which would have been fine he had been even just a little bit funny.
Anyway instead of just ignoring this nonsense until things got back to
normal the old dears at BUFORA got 'em in a twist somewhat and
terminated the site.

Guerrilla hackers soon brought it back to life.

But then it all happened again. Without any warning or a by-your-leave
they just discontinued the web site leaving hundreds of BUFORA members
totally mystified as to what had happened.

You pays yer money and no have no choice.

 More BUFORA stuff in a bit.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------


Oi, Redfern -NO!

Nick Redfern's book A Covert Agenda is among us. A far more sensible
version of the tripe Tim Good comes out with but still failing to
deliver a killer blow to those nasty sceptics. I reviewed Agenda for
F.T. and admire Nick's dogged research into the facts - such as they
are.

But!

I spoke to Nick, saying 'There's one particular chapter I have a
problem with'. 'Is it 'The 'Copter and the Crash', he asked 'I thought
it might be that.' And indeed it was.

Irrespective of the pros and cons of A Covert Agenda generally it was
nice to find a chapter which I am my co-researcher Dave Clarke knew
something about.

'The 'Copter and the Crash dealt with a slew of sightings in 1973 and
early 74 of what became known as the Phantom Helicopter. Ancient or
more erudite readers will remember this as being a well publicised
flap in the Peak District, Staffordshire, Cheshire and North Wales.

No Copter was ever found to be the source of these sightings and
indeed the sightings were largely of light sources, NOT helicopters.

Therein lies the central mystery of ufology but we must press on.

'The crash' part of Nick's chapter refers to an event which took place
on January 23rd 1974 in  the Berwyn Mountains area of mid north Wales.
Over the years this case has been resurrected reshuffled and misquoted
by Dodd, Randles, Fry, Redfern etc and is on the brink of turning into
the desperately longed for 'British Roswell'.

Unless we can stop it!

The case as it is presented in any of the available sources is a mish
mash of fact and fiction. In an attempt to redress the balance and
prevent the case mutating further I am reinvestigating it (Dave C. and
I first mentioned it in our 1990 book Phantoms of the Sky). This
reinvestigation will culminate in a fully referenced booklet later
this year and lectures for several UFO groups including with one at
Madam Bott's Staffordshire Dominatrix Club, the November LAPIS
conference and various others.

If any readers have information or views on this case please get in
contact. I have a great deal of material on this case but anything is
welcome and will be credited.

Two months work on the case has already shown that all researchers who
have so far looked at the case have merely repeated earlier errors in
a way they should be ashamed of. Research actually involves doing
something original not just copying what others have copied from
sources they didn't check thoroughly in the first place..
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----

The Column 'They' Tried To Ban!

As some of you may be aware I write an occasional column on the
murkier side of ufology for Fortean Times. A piece I submitted last
autumn was -shock!- turned down. I guess they just thought it didn't
fit. So you can have it here instead. I can't remember what it was
called so we'll call it Elsie..........

'Well, that's the 50th anniversary of UFOs over with, thank god. Fifty
years since Ken Arnold's seminal Mt Rainier vision which unknowingly
begat the psychic circus called ufology. But where has it left us,
this year of reflection and reckoning? Publishers have made a fortune
from recycling the usual tripe about UFOs to an X File sensitised
public whilst the frenzied rumours as to what would be revealed by the
authorities have waxed and waned without substance, as they have done
annually since the '50s. Otherwise it seems the best the UFO community
can come up with is some tatty second hand crash retrieval stories and
a few bits of metal, provenance unknown, but hardly off-planet
artefacts. Oh, and thirty nine people went through Heaven's Gate
because they thought a spaceship lay in the tail of Hale-Bopp. I hope
the people who fed the media with that idea are able to sleep soundly.
Do I sound cynical? That's because I am.

Ufology is at crisis point - again. Its promises are as unfulfilled as
its fantasies are lurid. A few people, mainly publishers, authors and
organisation leaders dry-hump the subject for all it's worth while the
numbers of genuine researchers are few - maybe 50 people in the UK
maximum. The rest, the shock troops and the rubes just come and go as
their belief systems are processed through the ufological mill. For
most the subject doesn't come up with the demonstrable proof they
obviously crave and so they seek it elsewhere, drifting into
ever-woollier belief systems. Others join UFO groups hoping for
guidance and relevation. They soon discover that those bastions of
truth-seeking and lid-blowing, whilst they exist aplenty, do so not
for any research or investigation purposes, but simply to stroke egos
and supply endless shoals of fish for the UFO aquarium.

Put simply, if it wasn't for ufologists there would be no UFO subject
today, period. It's a self-perpetuating, hermetically sealed system.
Others attempt to justify the subject's many failings by insisting the
breakthrough will surely come if only scientists would get involved.
Wrong! Any professional worth their salt takes one look at the subject
and instantly recoils, fearful for their sanity and reputation. True,
many scientists hold a sincere interest and would like to get
involved, but just cannot see anything on offer either in the way of
evidence, proof, methodology or integrity.

The key player in this annus horribilis for ufology has been the
British UFO Research Association. Founded in 1956 and one of the
oldest UFO study groups in the world it has, until recently, weathered
the storm and led the field in a number of ways. Now BUFORA is in
disarray, another victim of the moral bankruptcy which pervading the
UFO subject. For instance, BUFORA one had a fairly tight Code of
Practice which protected witness confidentiality. In this BUFORA led
the world. But then the rot set in. Witness details were passed onto
gentlemen of the press without permission or consultation, causing
considerable distress to people who had experienced - whatever the
stimuli - some pretty bizarre incidents.

Where once BUFORA shied away from the glare of press attention by 1995
they had weakened and allowed themselves to be a publicity vehicle for
the universally derided Santilli 'alien autopsy' film. Bad enough, but
by 1997 they were allowing the ufological equivalent of snake oil
barkers to speak, unchallenged, at their conference. Tabloid ufology
had finally penetrated the inner sanctum of reason. It got worse.
BUFORAs sensible and unique moratorium on hypnotic regression was
blithely broken by those investigators who claimed to practise it as
part of their membership of other UFO groups. As though that made it
all ok. If any of these acts had been committed in a multi-national
then appropriate steps would have been taken to discipline the
offenders. But not in BUFORA. All pretence of it being a membership
driven organisation went out of the window. Like the mushrooms of
adage its members were kept in the dark and fed bullshit (hey, even
bullshit was hard to come by as Council members failed to respond to
any 'difficult' queries put to them via e or snail mail) and despite
repeated requests from within the membership and their own Council of
Management no effective action was taken. Eventually in the summer of
1997 BUFORA couldn't paper over its crackpots any longer and called a
high level meeting at which charges of breaching witness
confidentiality were laid at the feet of their Press Officer, Philip
Mantle. Astonishingly, despite these breaches being conclusively
proven, Mantle was supported by two thirds of Council, including the
Director of Investigations. This means anyone in BUFORA can ride rough
shod over witness confidentiality at will. And sell the story for
profit if they wish. Sure this boosts sales of books and gets
investigators in the newspapers. But what does it do to the poor
witness who unburdens themselves of a psychic apocalypse and expects
to be taken seriously?

In the end it barely matters that the subject matter we are dealing
with is that of UFOs and, by cultural inference, aliens. That's the
fantasy. The reality is that as ufologists we deal solely with human
beings, people who have perhaps had powerful experiences and who
should be offered trust and support. It's the least we can do and is
the key to any serious understanding of the forces - inner or outer -
they have come into contact with.

This way of dealing with people is an ethical one. Sadly most
ufologists believe ethics to be adjacent to Sussex and about as
boring. BUFORA - and the majority of other UFO research groups and
investigators have celebrated the anniversary of the subject well by
behaving like pack animals, scrabbling for press attention at any cost
and reducing the witness experience to a currency whose only value is
its weight in publicity. The truth? Well it's still out there, but the
current crop of Mulder's and Scully's are lost in a hall of mirrors
where all they can see is their own reflection.

And they like it that way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----

Aftermath

So that was that. Fortean Times wouldn't run it, but it's all true and
few people in BUFORA actually disagree with its comments. Especially
many who were at the fateful council meeting. BUFORA are rarely able
to deal with the truth though and one of their Vice Presidents, Lionel
Beer, (he likes steam engines you know) freaked and 'phoned Bob
Rickard up to suggest they didn't print it as they might 'lose
readers'. Yeah, like any of the less than 500 BUFORA members are going
to stop buying FT because of an article that tells the truth!

BUFORAs D of I Gloria 'zeroG' Dixon told various people that she
'wanted my balls in a bag' (hardly worth the bother, my partner
assures me) and I had lots of 'lively' email from the likes of
Robert Moore and Dave Newton who for some reason thought they
had a clue what was going on.

Like I cared.

Obviously I did because I resigned from UFO Times leaving Dave
'Sensible' Newton in full command. Big mistake.

The resulting issue of UFO Times was an execrable mess that a nine
year old on tartrazine with a John Bull printing kit could have done.

As regards journal editing pilgrims, it's not just about having
articles and putting them altogether, it's about knowing the scene,
the people, the trends, and being able to catch just the right mood
for the time the zine comes out.

In the meantime a crack BUFOONA cash retrieval team was issued to Mike
Wootten's palatial North Wales residence where anything which looked
as though BUFORA had remotely paid for was wrenched from his grasping
hands as his wife and children looked on in astonishment.

Whoever gets the scanner next will notice tear stains and finger nail
marks from the savage doorstep tussle that took place.

Mike loved that scanner you know.

The Highland Clearances had nothing on this!

Of course in their tasteless eagerness to 'get what is theirs' BUFORA
omitted to consider, and weigh off, the freebies which Mike had
provided for them over the years and which had saved them hundreds if
not thousands of pounds.

But then you never expected BUFORA to be grateful did you?

Good, because they weren't and didn't even thank Mike for his years of
service (read 'donkey work') on Council.

One funny part of this incident was when the balaclava clad hit men
(and let's face it Arnold West and Robin Lindsay look pretty funny in
SAS get up) suggested that they might have the review books back.

Mike sent them away with a stinging 'no!'. Any fule no that review
books and zines go to the editor of a journal, don't they? Well no
actually because BUFORA are so tight that as a result of this they've
actually gone so far as to change the company's Articles of
Association so that it's THE LAW that all review books become the
property of BUFORA.

You're a member of BUFORA aren't you? - is it good to know that the
company rules can be changed to suit the suits by them just, well,
just changing them. They don't have to actually bother the membership
with such details.

It just IS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----

You Can't Come In Here Thinking Like That

Speaking of BUFORA membership. My moles in the Star Chamber informed
me that my membership was to be 'looked at' when it came up for
renewal in February '98. And so it was. At the March Council meeting
certain people - and this is another example of BUFORAs patheticness
because no-one will say exactly who raised the issue - certain people
decided that they couldn't hack the constant criticism I heap on the
way BUFORA is run.

Note that.

The way BUFORA is run. I have a lot of time for BUFORA's aims and
objectives and do a lot of work for the org. But.

There is a small group of people who effectively control BUFORA and
who can't hack criticism because it exposes them for the conservative
charlatans they are.

Anyway it was decided that the only thing they could 'get' me on was
the fact that I'd told their printer that they couldn't afford to pay
him and he shouldn't do anything until he received money. Seemed
reasonable to me but not to 'certain people'.

As an aside here it's worth noting that over the years BUFORA members
have got away with and are getting away with: using hypnosis against
the Code Of Practice, giving witnesses names to the press, selling
photographs that belonged to other people, writing abusive notes to
other BUFORA members, accusing BUFORA members of illegal activities
and so on. Of course this is acceptable behaviour, but criticise the
way the aims and objectives are interpreted, the process by which
BUFORA runs and claims to be founded on, prevent someone getting
ripped off and actually ask what some Council members do to justify
their existence on Council and it's suddenly a hanging matter.

Tish and fipsy.

An argument ensued about this on Council and the action was to be that
Steve 'I don't' Gamble was to send a stiffly worded letter to me
(eek!) pointing out the error of my ways and inviting a reply. Sensing
a trap here, i.e. they thought I would just give them a load of
nonsense so they could refuse my renewal instead I argued my point
valiantly and bugger me if I didn't get renewed. Still didn't find out
who the gutless bastards who opposed me were -at least not officially-
but we're working on it and there will be a reckoning.

BUFORA Captain?
Illogical -
Does Not Compute

The current logic in BUFORA seems to run that:
a) BUFORA is in a mess financially and ethically.
b) We will therefore hide our heads in the sand in the hope it will go
away
c) If anyone criticises us we will
i) Ignore them
ii) If that doesn't work we will try to get rid of them
d) Then it will all go back to normal, same people same tired old
organisation

Or, to misquote Henry Ford, "You can have any kind of BUFORA you want.
As long as it's crap."
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Can Go - Won't Go!

BUFORA has been in this situation on and off for years. Everyone who
knows anything about either the structure of UFO orgs generally or
BUFORA specifically knows what needs to be done. Simply, the coterie
of chums and ET believers who run it need to go and let fresh blood
in, people who know what's going on and are active in the field.
But they won't and in fact my remote viewing bot tells me that this
group of individuals have even considered winding BUFORA (a limited
company) up rather than relinquish their positions and let others take
over.
No doubt now I will face further 'action' because I refuse to let them
carry this farce on in secret.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----

Mmmmm, NIC(e)

However there is some light at the end of the tunnel. the National
Investigations Committee, comprised of active researchers and
investigators have come up with some monkey gland to inject into the
corpse. At an excellent meeting in March several hours of ufology were
discussed and resolutions made.

These include a regular flow of good research and case reports from
the NIC, one or two lectures a year organised by the NIC, an NIC email
list and one or two other things. Things were happening.

Of course BUFORA council immediately threw up their hands when they
heard about this and thought insurrection was afoot and that people
were tunnelling beneath them. Following the NIC and as a result of
criticism made by John Heptonstall, chairman Steve Gamble resigned.
Ooops, in true BUFORA style he unresigned a day or two later. This is
a popular BUFORA Officers game which several have played out over the
years.

Here's how to play.

You are a BUFORA Council member. You bask in power and reflected
glory. Someone criticises you. Oh golly! You resign, hurt. But then
all your pals persuade you to unresign in case one of the 'outsiders'
gets on Council and upsets things.

I was always under the illusion that - and this certainly applies in
my professional sphere - that if you resign then that's it baby,
you're history.  Of course we all know BUFORA is above history - but
certainly not above histrionics.

Where were we.......oh, So you see what I've been getting at - suggest
innovation and change and the suits try to stamp it out at source.
But we'll get there in the sweet by and by, we've all been camped
outside the city for too long to acquiesce to now.

Of course this criticism of BUFORA has led to even the most sensible
in their ranks concluding that it's an orchestrated effort on behalf
of 'them' to destroy UK ufology. I'm afraid the only person
orchestrated is myself following their D of I's request. One leading
council member has noted in correspondence to BUFORA's chairman Steve
Gamble

"If there is a force at work behind the scenes determined to destroy
the only voice of reason and sanity in ufology in this country, then
it has succeeded admirably by putting us all at odds with each other."

There y'go again - paranoia. No, you're at odds with each other
because few of you know why you are there or what you are doing.
And now you are eating yourselves.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Left, Right, Left Right

The saga of Tim Matthews goes on apace. See earlier issues for the
facts so far but basically quite a few incy wincy ufologists don't
like him 'cos he's a bit in your face and well, perhaps because he
does some research and publishes it and well you know, just because.

Yeah, they haven't got a reason.
But someone had.
Oh yes indeedy.

The Winter '97 issue of Lobster, a conspiracy journal edited by a man
who still lives with his mum, alleged many things about Tim. In an
uncredited story - but our guess is Armen Victorian/Henry Halfdazed
was behind it - a riveting tale unfolded. This is how it went......if
you believe it!

Tim Matthews had once been a 'well-in' member of the British National
Party and possibly other far right orgs. He had been very active at
all levels and was possibly implicated in the sort of criminal things
that far right groups do.

He then changed sides at some point and worked undercover for the
anti-facist 'zine Searchlight, before exposing the BNP on a World In
Action prog, then went into extreme Green politics before finally
washing up on the shores of ufology.

Left, right, left, right. Whose tune was he really marching to? A guy
called Larry O'Hara whose obsession in life is rooting about in the
dusty corners of extreme politics alleges that Tim Matthews - real
name Tim Hepple - is really working for the UK military in an
intelligence deep cover situation and that his 'job' is one of agent
provocateur, spreading disinformation among ufologists.

Crikey.

Challenged about this Tim vigorously denied the UK military bit but
freely admits he was in the BNP and most of the other affiliations.
Except a particularly nasty one about his alleged involvement in a far
right white supremacist pseudo-religious organisation called The
Church of The Creator.

The thin skinny on this stuff can be found in other zines, or in one
of the three (count 'em) booklets which people have written about his
alleged activities. Type 'Tim Hepple' into an Internet search engine
and see what happens.

These allegations, some ufologists claimed, justified what they had
said about Tim all along.

These deeds were all quite a few years ago now. Are people not allowed
to have a past? And if we are talking political extremists how about
Patrick Harrington who used to print BUFORAs magazine  -he is involved
in some seriously deep and murky far right political shit. Or maybe
George Sturgeon, former BUFORA witness support group member who filled
their 'newsletter' with racist nonsense?

There's a lot of it about and I suspect if you scratched a few well
known ufologists, whom I'd rather not name for legal reasons, you'd
find a strange political smell coming from them.

But what's Tim up to in ufology with a background such as this? Who
knows, but it does seem as if he's been involved in more plots than a
gravedigger. Ideal for ufology I hear you say, yes and that's why he's
comes so far so quick. The inter group politicking he can do whilst
eating his Shreddies and his grass roots activist background make
research and investigation a cinch. He draws people into his lectures
and gives them some of what they want and a lot of what he wants.

Hey, just like real politics!
Let's just have a break now and turn our attentions back (I know, it's
tedious but it's got to come out, like drawing a boil) to BUFORA.
We'll have another look at Tim in a while. You'll see what happens.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Even Mushrooms Don't Get Treated This Way!

BUFORA carried on its implementation of the darkness/bullshit equation
when Chairman Steve 'I don't' Gamble announced he was to be chairman
of the new Thousand Year Wretch,...no, sorry, just for the next three
years. Yup, no voting, no consultation, just there y'go. It will all
get ratified at the AGM in April. On the nod. Gamble sent out a
missive which covered the whole debacle up as usual.
Instead of actually telling the little people what had taken place,
that they were skint and gooks were on the wire the spin doctors had
been at work. No mention of any of the various challenges or upsets,
no mention of the hideous financial mess BUFORA is in. No mention of
how they are unable to service the members with the six magazines they
paid for (the last one was out in autumn '97). And so on.

Which all reminds me of the joke:
Q: How many BUFORA members does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: None - they just form a support group called 'Coping With
Darkness.'
----------------------------------------------------------------------

View Halloo!

And then, simply because I won't stop criticising the stupid things
they do BUFORA started an Andy Roberts backlash. About bloody time
too, sport has been thin on the ground recently.

Dave 'Sensible' Newton attended a super secret meeting on the astral,
where old men with rolled up trouser legs and rolled down imaginations
blew up each others noses to see whose turn it was in the barrel.

Dave was it - 'cos he's The Chosen One - and he was despatched to
start wittering about some subs which went awry when the IUN collapsed
in 1992.

Merely resting in my account I assure you.

I won't bore you with the details - the full text of thrust and
riposte was on the BUFORA members page (loads of picture of BUFORA
people's members - it's disgusting). You can't see it now because the
site's shut down. But you can imagine just how tedious it was.

Anyway in traditional ufologist fashion Sensible twisted whatever
'evidence' was available to his own ends, misquoting letters from
Jenny Randles, being vague about facts, times and dates and generally
making himself and his masters look stupid.

This sort of propaghandi just won't do and in the end Jenny found out
what he'd been up. As a result Sensible got a rather stiffly worded
letter accusing him of having 'callously misled' all those he was
prittle prattling to by email, about something he knew nothing about.

When we squeezed his melons and got the 'facts' out of him it turned
out he was able to supply two names and address of people who didn't
get what was owed to them.
Which when you consider the end of the IUN came amidst the death of
one founder member, a marriage break up of another and the profound
disinterest of a third I don't think that's bad at all.

But Sensible did. and he's in charge of UFO Times and he's one baaaaad
mo'fer.

Sensible also runs a parish magazine called Strange Daze which is weak
version of UFO Brigantia. Brigantia-lite, if you like. Wags are
suggesting that he changes the name to Strange Dave and writes all
about his rum old adventures in UFO-land.

But then it would just be a weak copy of The Armchair Ufologist -
oops, deja vu Dave!

Sensible ceased his witterings then and went off to seethe quietly.
Game over.
And after all that I still got my membership renewed.
Which was nice.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

I Had Too Much To Dream Last Night

The scene: A flat somewhere in Southport.

The cast: Tim Matthews and Eric Morris.

Tim and Eric stand at the side of a large table marked out into a map
of the north. Small counters with pictures of ufologists dot the map.
Eric surreptitiously slides one with a picture of him on it across
into Wales. Tim notices and slaps his hand sharply........

'No Eric', I do the pushing about in this game.'
'But you said.........'
'Never mind what I said, I've said lots of things.'
'But.'
'Never mind the buts Morris, you're mine now and you'll do as I say,
or the photographs go public. What haf you put in zis schnapps Morris?
I'm feeling quite ill.......................
Zo, vif LAPIS und NLUFOIG  cringing vif terror und vif BUFORA in
disarray it's time to cement our redoubt.'
'What's a redoubt Tim?'
'Zey are things I don't haf Eric. Ze final solution is a conference in
Southport, one like they haf nefer seen before. One vich vil elevate
me - put that counter of Irene Bott down Morris, you'll make it sticky
- still higher.'
'Wow Tim, you're great.'
'I know but remember who's in charge Morris.'
'Can't I be in charge as well Tim.'
'No Morris. Anyway virst ve take Lancashire unt zen ve reich, sorry
reach, for the stars.'
'But you don't think they come from the stars Tim.'
'Shuttit unterufologist, I've told you about the buts.'
'But Tim, Tim, if they don't come from the stars, and Tony says they
do and so do we, where do they come from.'
'Haven't you been listening Morris? Zis year ve zink ze government
makes them.'
'No ET then Tim?'
'No Eric, you're a debunker this year.'
'What's a debunker Tim?'
'Debunker? That's where it all ends Eric.'

and then I woke up, got out of bed.................
------------------------------------------------------------------

Southport Uber Alles

So there we were at Tim Matthews' conference on 24th January.

I've written about the conference in Fortean Times and it was a very,
very, good day........but as usual at these events conspiracy was
lurking in the minds of some of those present.

Harry Harris was there, having taken time off from big game hunting.
He arrived with the secret intention of reading out a screed which
told of how he simply hated Joe Dormer of LAPIS who had called Harry a
nasty rough boys name at the '96 LAPIS conference. See how the science
of ufology is advanced?

But Tim Matthews found out and they held heated council in one of the
corridors. A psychic game of paper, water, stone was played intensely
for half an hour and Harris lost. In the end all he had to offer from
the stage was some old tosh about an advertising balloon and the girl
wot seen it 'avin 'ad a bit 'o missing time, knowwarramean?

People were openly sniggering at the suggestion that this balloon had
'panels' and was capable of creating missing time in a witness who was
clearly miles away. Hypnotic regression had been used and Harris
sniffed an abduction. We were less than thrilled.

Throughout the talk delivered by Harry and sidekick David ('I'm a nuts
and bolts man') Caton, Kevin McClure was on top form, challenging
Harry's every utterance. Hearing that Harry used a 'homeopathic
psychologist' McClure quipped, ' Does that mean he uses psychology in
very small doses?'. Harris was not amused and retorted, quite
inappropriately, 'I'm not a charlatan you know'.

What?

Had we suggested that Harry was a member of the '60s San Franciscan
psychedelic band? Or indeed the much later 'baggy' group hailing from
Northwich in Cheshire. No - so what are you on about Harry?

We thought a while......

Ahhhh, surely Harry you didn't mean anyone could possibly think your
research methods were crap, your claims highly questionable and your
attitude aggressive? Because no-one there said that. We just think you
exhibit a startling naivet=E9 in the light of the available evidence.
That's all.

Of course Harry has since been telling people he thought the
conference was a debunker's outing and he wasn't at all impressed.
He'll probably threaten to sue me for telling other people what he
said and what I thought of it.

If you want to know more about the conference read my piece in F.T. or
in NARO's zine. We're running out of time now and the best bit is yet
to come.

It's eight o clock. We've all been sat there for a long time now and
it's the abduction debate. Graceful Glo from BUFORA has just delivered
her keynote speech (by now readers she has my balls in a bag to
treasure for all time - ask her to show you) and we are just about
ready to have a good old chin wag when.....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's Laaaarrrry

It was Laaaaaarrrrrrry.

Yes, the fabled Larry O'Hara, scourge of the right,  in the flesh.
Right there before us in casual schoolteacher threads and gurly scarf.
The guy has got bottle you have to admit. As he started denouncing Tim
for his crimes against everyone who wasn't Laaaaarrrrry Tim narrowed
his eyes, flared his nostrils (very popular fashion in the 70s, flared
nostrils), turned a light shade of puce and propelled himself down the
aisle toward Laaaaary.

You should have seen the looks on people's faces! Thinking they had
come to learn the truth behind the X Files, instead they found
themselves in the centre of a near drubbing incident.

What did O'Hara and his running hamsters of the far left hope to
achieve? Did they think that ufologists would be overawed by his
revelations and spew forth onto the streets, march to London and
present a petition to Tony Blair demanding something they would have
forgotten about by the time they got there?

Hey Larry, these are ufologists we're talking about. Most of them
can't understand the letter for today in Sesame Street, never mind the
bonkers nonsense of a man who clearly needs a life, a hobby and a good
shag.

The whole thing was surreal. Kevin McClure tried to act as
intermediary (O'Hara subs. to Abduction Watch so Kevin thought he may
have influence). To no avail and this flurry of  unexplained
paranormal phenomena evoked the base nature of those involved and what
can only be described as 'shouting and pointing' took place (I have
the photos).

Larry was duly shuffled outside whereupon Eric 'I've been a sailor,
me' Morris allegedly kicked him in the research department. Other,
less politically aware, souls demonstrated their profound ignorance of
the dialectic process and simply told him to fuck off.

Either he would or he wouldn't and this disturbance of the either led
to a strange ringing noise that resolved into the formation of a small
cop circle which swirled him right outta town.

Prior to that, as O'Hara was 'escorted from the premises' some weird
beards in the audience started handing out leaflets about Tim's
badness. Another videod the proceedings. Tim's father in law assisted
one beardy bloke away in fine style and peace descended once more.

Great stuff. We should book Tim'n'Laaary for every UFO conference as a
floor show. But Tim's equilibrium was visibly shaken. Was this, people
whispered, because he'd been exposed as
left-talkin-right-walking-ufologically-infiltratin' government asset?

Or simply because he was being hounded by a nutter for enthusiastic
discretions in his (hitler) youth?

God knows. And God, as everyone knows, is mit uns.

But consider how the UFO community deals with this problem. Do
governments put people in the subject to disrupt and disorganise?
Would they be as obvious as Tim? Or maybe his obviousness is a cover
in itself. Any permutation is possible on the Rubik Cube of paranoia.

If Tim really is in soft cover, working for the Dark Forces at MFI,
B&Q or any other furniture manufacturer then we are pleased to welcome
them to a game they won't forget in a hurry.

But Tim does seem to have plans for world domination. His past is
perturbing - what if we all gave him our support and he did turn out
to be what people accuse him of?

Let's look at the Timrise from two different alignments.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

If It's Tuesday It Must Be Poland

Fresh from his triumphs as a state asset in the left and right his
paymasters launch him from nowhere into ufology. Why? Well ufologists
are interested in military craft and establishments, one good
infiltrator could put them on the wrong track totally, and set the
subject back thirty years and be gone before the dust settles. First
get your power - Quest, no good, too well organised, soon falls out.
Pisses off the local Lancashire groups, no future there, attaches
himself to BUFORA with high hopes of power and status until BUFORAs
legendary apathy and southerncentricism slowed him down too much,
formed an alphabet soup of orgs, planned a supergroup involving that
other outcast of UK ufology Philip Mantle, takes over the subject
feeds it with whatever info he wishes, intimidates those who would
oppose him and when his masters call him off he just disappears
leaving the whole ball game in a big mess......

or

We'll Fight Them On The Beaches

In which Tim, a bright lad, rebels in his youth and gets involved with
big boys with bad ideas. It could happen to any of us. Has a road to
domestos experience and dobs the baddies in to the goodies but errs
too far left. Wrong map. You can take the boy out of politics but you
can't take politics out of the boy. Discovers ufology relatively late,
realises most 'research' is a bag of shite and that there is a good
case for secret terrestrial craft being misperceived as UFOs, which
the gov are happy to go along with, annoys everyone because he has
'presence' and isn't afraid to tell people when they are being stupid,
realises local groups, Quest and BUFORA are a waste of time and that
by moving fast and light he can move across the enemies' heartland in
his panze...sorry, by not burdening himself with structure he can get
things done, gets a book contract on the strength of his new and
vigorous ideas and suddenly  finds earlier 'enthusiasms' catching up
with him, ufologist being paranoids take it all too seriously, forges
ahead despite this and acts as a badly needed purgative to an egg
bound subject, ufology moves forward in leaps and bounds and people
erect golden statues of Tim in their gardens.

See what I mean?
Let's ask Max for a comment, he'll know;
 "Tim Matthews? He's Intel."
Yeah, right Max.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey, Wait A Minute Mr Postman

As Tim rose so did his enemies. Several 'anonymous' leaflets were sent
out being very cruel to him indeed. Run by an anonymous group called
SHADO they were straight to the point and upset a lot of people. Which
is presumably what they were intended to do.

As usual in ufology everyone accused everyone else but and they were
all wrong - at least about the first two. I have my suspicions but in
this instance, just for once, I'm not telling you.

As for the third one,  which dealt largely with the activities of Eric
Morris, Matthew 'Just' Williams, a Truthseeker, used a scryring
machine to ferret out the base art of this hoaxer. 'Just' has claimed
that the results of his investigations have revealed it to be none
other than the aforementioned Eric 'kicker' Morris, who it seems has
been sending out anonymous screeds about himself.

Narcissistic or just plain 'ol sad?
You decide.
Eric of course vigorously denies this but the simple facts are that no
two photocopier 'signatures' are the same and unless someone had
sneaked into Eric's orifice and used his copier then he done it!

Weird one eh?
Eric, Tim's ahem, 'right hand man' has also been heard to say
everything is rosy in their garden because 'Andy Roberts is behind
(us)').
Only in the pantomime sense of the expression Eric old chap.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Beyond Our Ken (our kid)

And then there's the mysterious case of Tony 'Ken' Dodd. Dodd, who was
a mainstay of what used to be YUFOS before Graham Birdsall got a
jumper transplant and UFO magazine went bigtime. Dodd was always the
wild card in the pack. Whilst the Brothers Grimm at least pretended
they were sceptical and level headed, even if their writings showed
otherwise, Tony was free of such petty restrictions. Animal mutes,
abductions, MIBs, death threats, crash retrievals were just obstacles
to the truth, sorry THE TRUTH, in Tony's day to day life.

Anyway the point is that he has now resigned from UFO magazine to
pursue investigations privately. I'm sure that he will be publishing
the results of all these and that we will soon know the true nature of
the alien menace which besets us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Dodd Watch

Where was it all going Dodd-watch wanted to know. The answer came soon
enough and it was as we had feared.
Omar Fowler's newsletter OVNI published a letter from the Doddman
which read:

"March 10th 1998

Dear Omar,

Thank you for your letter and the very interesting report attached. I
have no doubt whatsoever that some of the flying triangles witnessed
over the past few years are of terrestrial origin. I am fairly certain
also that some of the huge triangular craft seen in Scotland and in
the Arctic Circle both entering and leaving the sea are
extra-terrestrial.

My information from highly place sources indicates that there is
without doubt liaison going on between a race of ETs and our own
people. There is also substantial information that another race of ET
with malevolent intent is visiting us. It would appear that we are
being given advanced technology by the friendly ET. to enable us to
defend against the unfriendly, hence the new generation of triangular
aircraft. The weapons in use appear to be highly advanced particle
beam weapons which have been used with great success.

This also confirms the reason why so many huge underground facilities
have been appearing all over the globe when we are supposed to be
living in a peace time environment. Of course the animal and human
mutilation situation is all part of this.

With regard to your request for the verses which I received
telepathically. As I said this was one of many messages I received. I
have put some of these on tape with background music for easy
listening and enclose a copy of the tape for your interest. These
messages truly came to me and I hope you find them interesting.

Yours sincerely,

Tony Dodd,

'Easy listening'! Like, crazy man. I must get a tape for those relaxed
evenings at home. Groove on down to the harmonious sounds of Tony and
the Aliens backed by Joe 'Time' Loss and the Paranormal Orchestra.
It's trad ufology dad.

Tony's capacity for belief clearly rivals even that of the queen in
Alice in Wonderland, who could believe six impossible things before
breakfast. Hell, I bet Tony doesn't even eat breakfast. That way
there's more time for those impossible things!

Doddwise things got much (oh yes they could) worse in late March with
the publication of Abducted by Ann Andrews and Jean Ritchie. Based on
the alleged abduction of a child from Essex which Doddy had written
about in UFO zine , this book is one heap of unadulterated rubbish. If
it were a fish it would be a bottom feeder. No doubt others will pull
it limb from limb (look out for Kevin McClure's FT piece for
starters), so we won't bother here.

The only 'good' thing in the book is that thankfully no regression
hypnosis was used. But despite the wonga which will come the poor
kids' way, how will this affect him? He's a child and if we have one
responsibility in life it is to children. For the sake of a few pieces
of gold Ritchie, Dodd and his parents have changed this poor little
sod's life forever. I just hope someone keeps a track of how it all
works out for him and that one day he is able to realise he has been
hoodwinked by the really evil twin forces of belief and commercialism.
Able to realise that, and filled with the desire to speak out against
the people - not aliens-  who have abused him and his right to a
peaceful childhood.

All I can say about the book is don't waste your money. Besides the
alleged abduction which is risible, there is some terminal nonsense
about Doddy and t'ing but the real meat comes on page 80 near the
bottom.

"Quest came into being when Graham Birdsall, who set it up, found
himself wondering who to turn to about his own abduction experiences."

So Graham has been abducted eh? Answers a lot of questions. I
immediately emailed the Greyster to get to the, er, 'bottom' of this
abduction allegation. He replied thusly:

'Appreciate your letting me know that I'm supposed to have been
whisked away. Yes, it's news to me as well.  I have been so busy I've
not had time to fully read the book as yet, just leafed through some
of the chapters, so I guess I'd better say something in the next issue
of the mag. Trouble is, someone is bound to write-in and suggest I
undergo hypnotic regression - just in case....'

If we were predictin' kinds of folks our guess is that it's squirm
city at Kastle Kwest. We'd also predict a Tony Tome on the horizon,
possibly co-authored by Jean Ritchie and featuring nonsense a-go-go,
and hopefully maybe a free tape with some alien messages for that
all-important easy listening.


Tough on Ufology - Tough on the Causes of Ufology
Ufology: Delicious Hot - Disgusting Cold









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 26

                  UK.UFO.NW -IRC- guest James Bond Johnson

From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:35:13 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:53:05 -0400
Subject: UK.UFO.NW -IRC- guest James Bond Johnson

UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK

- Please note that uk.ufo.nw have now changed IRC servers. We now
meet on Chatnet. A full list of Chatnet servers can be found at
the foot of this mail -

Saturday 2nd May 1998

United Kingdom UFO Network special guest:

James Bond Johnson

James will be answering your questions live in a moderated meeting
starting at 11pm (UK time) Saturday 2nd May 1998.

-- BIOGRAPHY --

Photographer of the Roswell wreckage.

James Bond Johnson is probably best known as the photographer who
on July 8th 1947, working as a photographer and reporter for the
Fort Worth Star-Telegram newspaper went to General Ramey's office
at the Fort Worth Army Air Base and took the now famous
photographs of the wreckage.

It is generally considered by most to be the wreckage of nothing
more than a downed weather balloon and this is where the cover
story starts. However there are others who believe that the
photographs show wreckage of the crashed Roswell UFO.

The two photographs that James is known to have taken are those
showing General Ramey (alone) kneeling by the wreckage and
another with General Ramey and Colonel DuBose again near the
wreckage.

Many WWW sights depict the story of the Roswell incident. Far to
many to list here. However two that discuss J.B Johnson's
activities are well worth visiting at:

http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/

Here you will find a report on Mr Johnson written by Kevin
Randle. Also you will find links to four Real Audio files that
can be downloaded and are interviews of J.B Johnson by Kevin
Randle in 1989 & 1990.

http://www.execpc.com/vjentpr/jroswell.html

Professional Background
James Bond Johnson, Ph.D.

J. Bond Johnson, Ph.D. has been incurably curious for 70 years.
This led to his becoming for five years a reporter-photographer
for the Fort Worth Star-Telegram then the South's largest
newspaper -- and to pursuing university degrees in journalism,
education, theology and psychology at Texas Wesleyan, Texas
Christian, Southern Methodist and Claremont. He was a post
doctorate fellow of the National Institute of Mental Health for
three years of clinical psychiatry training in the post-graduate
Department of Psychiatry, University of Southern California
School of Medicine. He also received clinical training at the U.
S. Public Health Service Hospital in Fort Worth, TCU-VA Veterans
Guidance Center in Fort Worth, Metropolitan Hospital in Norwalk,
Tri-City Mental Health Authority in Pomona, and Memorial Hospital
Medical Center of Long Beach.

He has been an ordained United Methodist minister for 48 years
and since 1960 has been a California board certified and licensed
clinical psychologist. He was in private practice as a clinical
and consulting psychologist in Long Beach for 31 years with
specialties in family therapy, sports and industrial psychology.
In 1970, he founded the Long Beach Youth Home, a residential
treatment facility and school for emotionally troubled youths,
and in 1974 he established Cedar House in Long Beach, which has
become a national model in the treatment of child and spousal
abuse. He recently retired as senior pastor of the First United
Methodist Church of San Pedro.

He pioneered in studying the etiology of post-traumatic stress
disorder, having interviewed returned prisoners of war, escapees
and evadees during three wars. He served as an Army Air Corps
pilot cadet in World War II, a Marine Corps captain (public
information) during the Korean conflict and an Army psychological
operations specialist during the Vietnam War. He has been a
consultant to the National Security Council at the White House,
he served on the Eisenhower Commission, which revised the Code of
Conduct for prisoners of war and was a Pentagon consultant to
"Operation Homecoming," the Department of Defense rehabilitation
program for returning prisoners of war after the Vietnam War. He
is retired from the U. S. Army in the rank of colonel after 33
years of active and reserve service. He is a past multi-term
president of both the Long Beach and Los Alamitos chapters of The
Retired Officers Association and is a life member of the U. S.
Marine Corps Combat Correspondents Association.

An inveterate traveler, he has organized and led group tours to
six continents in recent years, specializing in "Sentimental
Journeys" of former servicemen and women (and widows) to American
battlefields around the world.

He has received the most attention of late for having
photographed in 1947 for the Fort Worth Star-Telegram the
wreckage of the controversial "UFO crash" at Roswell, New Mexico.
He recently was portrayed in this incident in the movie "Roswell"
produced by Showtime.

To Contact Mr. Johnson, feel free to send him an email at:

JBONJO@aol.com -or- FAX: (562) 427-3931.

---

If you are using one of the dedicated IRC programs such as the
excellent MIRC available free from: http://www.mirc.co.uk/ enter one
of the below irc server addresses into your program. The nearer the
server to your location the faster the connection. If one fails then
try another.

MIRC is probably the best IRC program there is and it's free. To
download MIRC for Win95 or Win 3.1/3.11 fully configured for
connection goto:

http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk

Select the 'Other Files' button.

To connect to the IRC channel using your java compatible web browser
goto:

http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk
http://www.crowman.demon.co.uk

-Chatnet Servers-

LosAngeles.CA.US.ChatNet.Org
Pocatello.ID.US.ChatNet.Org
Chelmsford.MA.US.ChatNet.Org
Louisville.KY.US.ChatNet.Org
Portland.OR.US.Chatnet.Org
SLC.UT.US.ChatNet.Org
k9.chatnet.org
Tupelo.MS.US.Chatnet.Org
RockHill.SC.US.ChatNet.Org
StLouis.MO.US.Chatnet.Org
Pensacola.FL.US.ChatNet.org
Chicago.IL.US.ChatNet.Org
Skien.NO.EU.ChatNet.Org
London.UK.EU.ChatNet.Org
Dayton.OH.US.ChatNet.Org
Scranton.PA.US.ChatNet.Org
SF.CA.US.ChatNet.Org
ChatWorld.ChatNet.Org
WalnutCreek.CA.US.ChatNet.Org

Times of the meeting will vary depending on your part of the
world. We advise you to check for equivalent UK times.


We look forward to seeing you there.
--------------------------------
United Kingdom UFO Network
ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk
http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/
--------------------------------






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   Apr > Apr 27

                   Re: Divers Find World's Oldest Building

From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 21:28:20 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:40:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Divers Find World's Oldest Building

In a message dated 98-04-26 11:01:32 EDT, you write:

>  From: "Brian Straight" <briansxx@gte.net>
>  To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>  Subject: New Civilization?
>  Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 08:01:37 -0500

>  The following URL is interesting -- source is the London Times:

>  http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/Sunday-
Times/frontpage.html?1781903

>  Text of the article follows--but the picture is worth seeing!


>  Divers Find World's Oldest Building
>  by Trushar Barot

>    A STRUCTURE thought to be the world's oldest building, nearly
>  twice the age of the great pyramids of Egypt, has been
>  discovered. The rectangular stone ziggurat under the sea off the
>  coast of Japan could be the first evidence of a previously
>  unknown Stone Age civilisation, say archeologists.

>  The monument is 600ft wide and 90ft high and has been dated to at
>  least 8000BC. The oldest pyramid in Egypt, the Step Pyramid at
>  Saqqara, was constructed more than 5,000 years later.

>  The structure off Yonaguni, a small island southwest of Okinawa,
>  was first discovered 75ft underwater by scuba divers 10 years ago
>  and locals believed it was a natural phenomenon.

This was an interesting post. I am waiting for a new prouncement
from Richard  Hoagland about how its connected to Cydonia,
Phoenix Arizona and the Mars photo mission.

Why this is some incredibly significant proof of the reality of
Mars.  How NASA and or JPL or pick your government agency has
covered this up all these years on and on.

Cheers,
Robert






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                    Re: Any More News Regarding Roswell?

From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:36:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:37:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Any More News Regarding Roswell?

Regarding...

>From: KRandle993 <KRandle993@aol.com>
>Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:11:01 EDT
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Any More News Regarding Roswell?


Kevin wrote:

>But, when all is said in done, we have every member of Colonel
>Blanchard's staff who was alive to talk to us telling us that what
>was recovered was not a balloon.


Kevin,

How can we equate this with some pivotal testimonies obtained
before the case became popularised and hopefully therefore of
particular significance.

As you know, Brazel's daughter Bessie recalled, "The debris
looked like pieces of a large balloon which had burst..."

And, often overlooked, is that according to Brazel's son Bill
Jnr's recollections in 'The Roswell Incident' [Berlitz and Moore,
p85], "when Dad first got into Roswell it was the weather bureau
he called first about this stuff he had found".

Why would Bessie distinctly remember the debris as resembling
balloon wreckage and Mac have first contacted the weather
bureau?


Isn't this all academic anyway as critical documents obtained
under the FOIA confirm, as arguably does the absence of any
heightened military alert at the time, that 'Roswell' had no
bearing whatsoever on the perceived enigma of what 'flying
saucers' truly were?

It's understood that recently unearthed 'Top Secret' documents,
subsequent to 'Roswell', reiterate this.


Is it fair to say that following the exposure of fundamental
flaws in previously accepted and crucial witness testimony from
such as Gerald Anderson, Jim Ragsdale and Glenn Dennis, that you
would now consider Frank Kaufmann as a central 'Roswell'
witness?

In respect of Kaufmann's alleged 'crash/retrieval and recovery of
alien bodies' report to his superiors, where did Kaufmann obtain,
as he has shown on UK TV, what were claimed to be copies of these
same documents?

Photocopied in 1947?



James.
E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
WWW: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pulsar/





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   Apr > Apr 27

               Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:04:56 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:32:51 -0400
Subject: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:03:42 GMT
> From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re:  UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

> That's the most explainable and probable scenario.  It wobbled
> too much to be a real flying machine - especially from another
> world.

As any one who has studied the many reliable reports knows, the
reported "wobble" is a standard from the earliest days of the
phenomenon.

Why it occurs is unknown, but that it is part of the case
literature is undeniable.

Given that we know relatively little about UFOs and their
principles of operation, I can see no reason for an a priori
assumption that they should not behave in a way that is is
clearly reported that they do behave.

Paul Hill experimented with flying platforms and found the wobble
and the often reported rocking motion could be used as a form of
fine altitude control by directing the lifting force away from
the vertical in a controllable and periodic fashion. This is but
one of several reported behaviors which may indicate that a
"throttling" of the UFO lift mechanism is either difficult,
undesirable, or slow to respond to minor changes.

There are also a few reports which indicate that wobbling is a
prelude to forward movement from a hover. I refer you to

http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman/ufo/report/571029.htm

as one example.

The Exeter case also contains references to the "wobbling" of the
object during low speed manuevers.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront/
------






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   Apr > Apr 27

                 Complex New Zealand Crop Circle Made for TV

From: SKvs <bradford@globalserve.net> [Sue Kovios]
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:25:16 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:14:18 -0400
Subject: Complex New Zealand Crop Circle Made for TV

Don't know if you've seen this yet.  This is a stunning
circle formation purposely created for a TV show.

http://www.head-space.com/circlemakers/nztrip.html

mm






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               Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:02:22 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:03:38 -0400
Subject: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs


>Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:03:42 GMT
>From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs



>That's the most explainable and probable scenario.  It wobbled
>too much to be a real flying machine - especially from another
>world.

Actually, wobble and rotation have been reported in visual
sighting for years. This is the first pictorial information about
wobble... asuming it is real. And this is more than wobble,. It
is a perfectly steady "precession", so far as I can tell.

Have you seen my article in the MUFON Jounal on the Mexico City
video?





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   Apr > Apr 27

                   Re: Divers Find World's Oldest Building

From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl>
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:07:33 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:13:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Divers Find World's Oldest Building


> From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com>
> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 21:28:20 EDT
> To: updates@globalserve.net [Robert Gates]
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Divers Find World's Oldest Building

> In a message dated 98-04-26 11:01:32 EDT, you write:

> >  From: "Brian Straight" <briansxx@gte.net>
> >  To: <updates@globalserve.net>
> >  Subject: New Civilization?
> >  Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 08:01:37 -0500

> >  The following URL is interesting -- source is the London Times:

> >  http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/Sunday-
> Times/frontpage.html?1781903

> >  Text of the article follows--but the picture is worth seeing!

> >  Divers Find World's Oldest Building
> >  by Trushar Barot

> >    A STRUCTURE thought to be the world's oldest building, nearly
> >  twice the age of the great pyramids of Egypt, has been
> >  discovered. The rectangular stone ziggurat under the sea off the
> >  coast of Japan could be the first evidence of a previously
> >  unknown Stone Age civilisation, say archeologists.

> >  The monument is 600ft wide and 90ft high and has been dated to at
> >  least 8000BC. The oldest pyramid in Egypt, the Step Pyramid at
> >  Saqqara, was constructed more than 5,000 years later.

> >  The structure off Yonaguni, a small island southwest of Okinawa,
> >  was first discovered 75ft underwater by scuba divers 10 years ago
> >  and locals believed it was a natural phenomenon.

> This was an interesting post. I am waiting for a new prouncement
> from Richard  Hoagland about how its connected to Cydonia,
> Phoenix Arizona and the Mars photo mission.

> Why this is some incredibly significant proof of the reality of
> Mars.  How NASA and or JPL or pick your government agency has
> covered this up all these years on and on.

> Cheers,
> Robert

Hi Robert,

It seems to me like you are almost WAITING for these people to
make silly announcements. Too bad that there's quiet a lot to say
for the findings Paleo-SETI has come up with yet. I'm not saying
it's a closing hypothesis but take a look at what we DO have.

Why bother to keep bringing Hoagland up? Too much energy left?
Why not use it to take a real close look to archeology.

The real issue here is not wether or not these buildings are made
by martians or whatever, but:






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              Re: Current-Encouinters: US Airforce's Bad Rap in

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:14:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:05:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Current-Encouinters: US Airforce's Bad Rap in


>Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 10:07:09 -0500
>From: slk <slk@EVANSVILLE.NET> [Francis Ridge]
>Subject: blame
>To: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

>It appears that McCoy was probably an associate
>member of NICAP because he attended a meeting at NICAP HQ circa
>1958 and this is all on audio tape.

NICAP did not exist until 1957, s McCoy couldn't have been a member
at the time of his activity with Project Sign.





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                        CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS: Chernobyl

From: slk <slk@EVANSVILLE.NET> [Francis Ridge]
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:45:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:04:00 -0400
Subject: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS: Chernobyl

Yesterday, April 28, marked the anniversary of the Chernobyl
nuclear accident and explosion. If you look at the graph below
you will notice a noticeable increase in UFO reports after a long
lull, the quality of which has been unmatched to this day. This
indicates that events that effect the planet and a lot of the
populace appear to be the concern of others, also.

The nuclear connection may be a real possibility.

Francis Ridge

http://www.flash.net/~joerit/docs2/chart.gif

"One Month Earlier:
...a raising number of UFO observations in the area of the
Chernobyl Nuclear Power Station (ChNPS)"

Chernobyl Exploded on 4/26/86 at 1:23 AM.
In reference to the possible UFO cause & effect relationship, in
particular, Chernobyl:

On May 1, 1997, Jerry Washington wrote:

In response to Anders Liljegren assertion that "'the UFO
phenomenon' was NOT out to check on that...No sightings in the
affected area until more than a week after the nuclear crash,"
referring to the Chernobyl disaster, I offer this excerpt from
Dr. Vladimir V. Rubtsov's lectures as published in MUFON's 1994
Symposium Proceedings:

"...about one month before the Chernobyl disaster I had a talk
with an air traffic controller of the Kharkov airport. He told me
that, according to pilots' reports, there was a raising number of
UFO observations in the area of the Chernobyl Nuclear Power
Station (ChNPS). Later it became known that on the night of the
fire in the ChNPS, some 3 hours after the explosion, a team of
nuclear specialists saw in the sky over the station a fiery ball
of the color of brass. The witnesses estimated its diameter as
6-8 meters and its distance from the burning nuclear reactor No.
4 as some 300 meters.

Just before the observation these specialists measured the level
of radiation in the place where they were standing. It was
measured at 3000 milliroentgens per hour. 'Suddenly two bright
rays of crimson color extended from the ball to the reactor...
This lasted for some 3 minutes...

The rays abruptly faded and the ball slowly floated away in a
north-westerly direction, towards Byelorussia.

Then we again looked at our radiation monitor. It displayed only
800 milliroentgens per hour...'"

Just thought you'd like to know.
Jerry Washington





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                Fylingdales UFO 'Confirmed Allegedly Bogus'!

From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:26:11 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:41:17 -0400
Subject: Fylingdales UFO 'Confirmed Allegedly Bogus'!

Dear Colleagues,

During the last 24 hours considerable attention has been focused
on the revelation in some of the British press that information
concerning the tracking of one and more UFOs by RAF Fylingdales,
is to be discussed at a space seminar at RAF Cranwell.

I have spent much of that time attempting to track down those
responsible for the release, and am now able to confirm that the
story is allegedly bogus.

Much of the credit must go to my colleague, author and UFO
researcher Nick Redfern, who was able to speak directly with Alan
Patterson, RAF Press Officer at the Ministry of Defence in
London.

I was given Alan Patterson's name and number to ring earlier in
the day by officials at RAF Cranwell, but eventually Nick managed
to get through.

Mr. Patterson said that "the only truthful part" that appeared in
the press was that concerning the staging of a space seminar.

The UFO angle, and everything connected with it, was not true, he
said.

The story had been concocted by a former MoD employee, whom he
named as PHILIP BURDEN.

"He was employed as a civilian within the MoD in London, but he
left under a cloud," said Mr. Patterson.

This was in stark contrast to a claim made earlier in the day, by
a spokeswoman at RAF Cranwell, that the story originated at RAF
Waddington.

A damage limitation exercise?

No one can be quite certain at this moment in time, but in light
of the extraordinary comments from Mr. Patterson, the focus of
attention has firmly switched to what appears to be the central
figure in these developments - just who is Philip Burden?

Best regards,


Graham W. Birdsall [Editor]

UFO Magazine (UK)












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                   Re: Divers Find World's Oldest Building

From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:35:08 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:54:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Divers Find World's Oldest Building

http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/Sunday-Times/frontpage.html?1781903

Re my earlier posting, this Sunday Times link does not,
apparently, take you to the appropriate page. Follow the link,
then scroll down to select news about Britain, and then look for
the article header re divers finding the world's oldest
building.

I'd be interested to know from those with geological knowledge
whether the pictured formation could have a natural origin -- it
looks very much like part of a step pyramid.

Sorry for any inconvenience

Brian






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                   Re: Divers Find World's Oldest Building

From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com> [Robert Gates]
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:42:44 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:58:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Divers Find World's Oldest Building


>  Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:07:33 -0700
>  From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl>
>  To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>  Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Divers Find World's Oldest Building

>  > From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com>
>  > Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 21:28:20 EDT
>  > To: updates@globalserve.net [Robert Gates]
>  > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Divers Find World's Oldest Building

<brevity snip>

>  Hi Robert,

>  It seems to me like you are almost WAITING for these people to
>  make silly announcements. Too bad that there's quiet a lot to say
>  for the findings Paleo-SETI has come up with yet. I'm not saying
>  it's a closing hypothesis but take a look at what we DO have.

Not waiting at all, just making a prediction based upon 20-30
years in UFOs. For years in the UFO field some would have us
believe that every discovery of ancient civilization was either:

  a) An ET coloney on the earth

  b) Somehow connected to Mars either by triangulations,
     connections to Sirus or whatever,

  c) All of the above.

I simply made the prediction that once Hoagland found out about
it it would somehow be connected to Mars Cydonia as Richard has
done in the past with connecting Phoenix to Mars.

>  Why bother to keep bringing Hoagland up? Too much energy left?
>  Why not use it to take a real close look to archeology.

>  The real issue here is not wether or not these buildings are made
>  by martians or whatever, but:

>  Obviously archeology made a couple of mistakes they're not
>  admitting! I think that is the real issue and that should be were
>  our energy goes instead of bashing other ufologists or people not
>  even worth mentioned...

In the UFO world some think our energy (in their minds at least
ALL energy) should be focused on:

  1) Roswell and nothing else

  2) Cydonia and nothing else

  3) Pyramids and the ET connection and nothing else and so forth

  4) Abductions and nothing else.

I think any of these public claims/announcements/pronouncements
or whatever are open for discussion, and critique. Now obviously
if you are a died in the wool Mars supporter, then any kind of
critique would be considered bashing. Not singling you out
because this principle is true of the Pryamids, Abductions and
everything else in UFO world.

Cheers,
Robert






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                          RAF tracks UFOs on Radar

From: David Clarke <dclarke14@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:20:36 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:43:06 -0400
Subject: RAF tracks UFOs on Radar

From Dave Clarke, BUFORA Press Officer

The following story appeared in the Daily Express (London),
Monday, April 27, 1998:

RAF SPOTS SPEEDING UFOs WITH NEW RADAR

Britain's X-Files may be opened up amidst claims of stunning
evidence that UFOs fly over Britain.

Tapes to be shown to British and American experts are said to
show objects which change shape in mid-air and a battle-ship
sized aircraft travelling at 33 times the speed of sound.

The details are due to be revealed in early June at a Space
Symposium at the RAF Cranwell staff college.

A senior RAF source claims the mystery craft haqve been picked up
by the latest Phased Array radar at the Cold War listenning post
at Fylingdales in North Yorkshire.

One senior officer said: "What we have seen are not secret
weapons. They are craft of which we have no technical knowledge.
We know their shape, speeds and height but cannot explain what
they are."

The most spectacular discovery is a craft spotted by Fylingdales
and the Dutch Air Force over the North Sea. Described as "the
size of a battleship", it zig-zagged at up to 24,000 mph for 15
minutes "as if it wanted to be spotted."

Another tape shows a group of 12 oval objects seemingly change
shape, to the amazement of observers.

But the RAF is expected to withold some X-Files. It is feared
they could reveal how sophisticated their new radars area.

A similar report appeared in the London Daily Mail for the same
date, penned by that paper's Science Correspondent, and
containing non-commital quotes from a Fortean Times spokesman.

On the surface the story looks impressive if true and would fit
what we know about Fylingdales involvement in the UFO reporting
system of which the MOD's AS2a appears to be the initial, and
public stage.

However, it appears this particular story is a tissue of
untruths, according to Press sources at the RAF and Ministry of
Defence - but they would say that wouldn't they?

Yes, there is to be a conference at the Air Warfare Centre at RAF
Cranwell in June, but this is to discuss possible future military
strategies in outer space - not UFOs, or so the RAF Press Desk
assures us.

No secret radar tapes showing UFOs are to be shown at this
conference, as these do not exist (although we know from Ralph
Knoys that gun camera film certainly does).

The RAF Press office are steadfastly denying all stories about
craft as big as battleships and shape-changing UFOs and deny
there are any radar traces showing objects of this kind.

They say the story originates not from a "secret RAF source" but
actually from an ex-employee who left with "a chip on his
shoulder" and has since gone to work for a number of Army related
magazines producing wildly exaggerated stories about a variety of
military subjects.

UFOs are apparently the latest in his list of exclusives - and he
will certainly find a willing audience with the British press
eager to feed believers, although the same Press last week
decided not to run a story about the downfall of the Rendlesham
Forest case.

I understand reporters from the Mail and Express rang the AS2
Press desk at the weekend to check the facts supplied by this
character [whose name I have and am checking out] and were told
none of the story was correct - but decided to run with it
anyway.

But hey, we're here to entertain as well as to inform - or so my
editor always tells me!

Perhaps the source of this story may go on to write a best
selling book about his time at the MOD UFO desk...oops, hasn't
that already been done by someone else?






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                    Re: Any More News Regarding Roswell?

From: KRandle993 <KRandle993@aol.com> [Kevin Randle]
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:33:21 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:48:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Any More News Regarding Roswell?

>Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:36:34 -0400
>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Any More News Regarding Roswell?
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>Regarding...

>>From: KRandle993 <KRandle993@aol.com>
>>Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:11:01 EDT
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Any More News Regarding Roswell?

Hi all -

>Kevin wrote:

>>But, when all is said in done, we have every member of Colonel
>>Blanchard's staff who was alive to talk to us telling us that what
>>was recovered was not a balloon.


>Kevin,

>How can we equate this with some pivotal testimonies obtained
>before the case became popularised and hopefully therefore of
>particular significance.

>As you know, Brazel's daughter Bessie recalled, "The debris
>looked like pieces of a large balloon which had burst..."

Yes, and she said that she and her dad had picked it ALL up.
She said that he dad was not held in Roswell. She said that
she accompanied him to Roswell on Sunday to alert the Army
about the debris.

>And, often overlooked, is that according to Brazel's son Bill
>Jnr's recollections in 'The Roswell Incident' [Berlitz and Moore,
>p85], "when Dad first got into Roswell it was the weather bureau
>he called first about this stuff he had found".

Beyond that there has been no claim that Mac tried to interest
the weather people in it. He certainly didn't say that to me on
the various times I talked to him.

>Why would Bessie distinctly remember the debris as resembling
>balloon wreckage and Mac have first contacted the weather
>bureau?

Good question. Why not ask her?

>Isn't this all academic anyway as critical documents obtained
>under the FOIA confirm, as arguably does the absence of any
>heightened military alert at the time, that 'Roswell' had no
>bearing whatsoever on the perceived enigma of what 'flying
>saucers' truly were?

There were aricraft on alert all during the July 4 weekend all
along the west coast. Ed Ruppelt, in his book, talked of the
Pentagon being in a state of near panic in July 1947. Sounds like
there is some evidence to suggest a heightened state of alert.


But what documents to you mean? What do you expect the documents
to say?

>It's understood that recently unearthed 'Top Secret' documents,
>subsequent to 'Roswell', reiterate this.

What recent documents? And, does the term sensitive
compartmentalized information mean anything here? A top secret
clearance does not translate into an ability to see everything
classified top secret. Need to know.

> Is it fair to say that following the exposure of fundamental
>flaws in previously accepted and crucial witness testimony from
>such as Gerald Anderson, Jim Ragsdale and Glenn Dennis, that you
>would now consider Frank Kaufmann as a central 'Roswell'
>witness?

No.

>In respect of Kaufmann's alleged 'crash/retrieval and recovery of
>alien bodies' report to his superiors, where did Kaufmann obtain,
>as he has shown on UK TV, what were claimed to be copies of these
>same documents?

>Photocopied in 1947?

Where do you think the term PHOTOcopied came from. I've seen
many photocopied documents in the Project Sign files... And,
what about carbon paper?

KRandle





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                         Latest Mars Photos Analysis

From: "Stefan Duncan" <duncan@tarheel.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:05:33 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:03:22 -0400
Subject: Latest Mars Photos Analysis


Has anyone heard any comments or analysis on the latest Mars'
photos?  I've only heard the Art Bell Show of which statements
concerning the photos were: "If that isn't artificial, I don't
know what is..."

Stefan Duncan
Director of XPI
Editor of AUFON







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                               24,000 mph UFO

From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 07:17:00 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:59:33 -0400
Subject: 24,000 mph UFO


From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
To: <bill.rose@virgin.net>
Subject: 24,000 mph UFO bullshit!
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 03:39:02 +0100

Both the Daily Mail and Daily Express newspapers reported today
the existence of 'radar tapes' purporting to show the operation
of a UFO out to sea. The object was said to be flying at between
17-24,000 miles per hour.

Despite the Ministry of Defence position that UFOs are 'of no
defence significance' the story was said to have been leaked by a
'military source'. This was almost impossible to believe and the
story could be seen at best as a cover for the operation and
testing of secret military aircraft in the North Sea and over the
Atlantic.

Despite their sophistication, it is not true that the latest
Phased Array Radar systems would be able to identify the shape of
a UFO - even one '900 feet' in length at anything approaching the
speeds reported - a science correspondent should have known this
simple fact.

The MOD press office commented today that they knew of the
'source' for this story, that he could under no circumstances be
taken seriously and that he had put out similar fabrications in
the past. He is, apparently, an ex-MOD man with a grudge against
his former employer!

Moreover, the Daily Mail KNEW (!) that the story was nonsense
before they printed it and it will be noticed that this tabloid
has put out a great deal of alien/ET-type material in recent
months.

(The only sensible suggestion would have been that a comet with a
large tail had entered the UK Air Defence Region/North Atlantic
Ground Defence Environment - NADGE and had been tracked by
sensitive radar systems.
Apparently, this happens twice a month and DI55 have an interest
in tracking both comets and space junk as they enter the
atmosphere. In this respect, DI55 is undertaking a similar role
to that of Project Moondust.
Both DI55 and Moondust personnel have been linked with 'UFO'
research activities.)

What is really going on out there then?

Just last week a diamond-shaped wing-wing aircraft was spotted by
a trained observer off the Western Scottish coast near
Campbeltown not far from RAF Macrahanish, previously rumoured to
be a base of operations for a number of secret aircraft and still
a NATO standby base.

I have spoken to serving RAF personnel who have witnessed the
operation of large triangular aircraft from RAF Boscombe in
February 1997.

The secret history of advanced aircraft testing between the US
and UK goes back to at least 1957 where British pilots were given
unrestricted access to Groom Lake, Nevada (Bissell, 1996) during
early U2 flights.

The recent wave of European triangle sightings, possibly an
extension of the Hudson Valley operations of 1983-1988, began in
Belgium in late 1989/early 1990 where a large triangular
aircraft, based at Boscombe Down and perhaps also RNAS Yeovilton,
was reported by numerous credible witnesses as hovering at low
altitude.

In 1994 a secret US spyplane crash-landed at RAF Boscombe Down
and was widely reported in regional, national and specialist
media but denied by the MOD.

In 1993/4 an aircraft not unlike the US Advanced Airborne
Reconnaissance System 'Tier 3' aircraft was reported to be
operating over the UK as part of a series of transatlantic
demonstration involving the RAF and elements of the aerospace
industry. According to US black projects researcher Dan
Zinngrabe, a respected source, the aircraft cost over $150
million, used active stealth features and was able to hover
through the use of an advanced jet propulsion system which might
have been ducted 'fan-in-wing' technology....

At this time, Nick Pope, former Secretariat Air Staff 2a UFO
'expert' went public with a story that UFOs were of
extraterrestrial origin and this was undoubtedly part of the
cover story involving the MOD and the UFO community.....

Nick Cook, military aerospace expert for Jane's Defence Weekly,
has stated that the US is actively seeking to develop
'electrogravitics' propulsion systems.

(These are also being researched within British Aerospace as part
of a classified defence project).

So whilst we have twaddle being put out in the tabloids, some UFO
researchers are getting to grips with the reality of secret
military aircraft.

Please ensure that this information is passed on in order to
limit the inevitable development of wild rumours within the UFO
community based upon todays' tabloid fiction.

Yours for the truth,

Tim Matthews - Black Dawn - Military UFO Research.





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                               Lunar Anomalies

From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:06:18 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:02:01 -0400
Subject: Lunar Anomalies

Dear colleagues,

A researcher in the Ukraine is interested in communicating with
people who are interested in lunar anomalies. Anyone interested
should contact:

Alexey Arkhipov,
118 Saltovskoye shosse, Apt.27,
Kharkov 310110,
Ukraine.
E-mail: rai@ira.kharkov.ua

Thanks,

Philip.







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                   Re: Divers Find World's Oldest Building

From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca>
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:15:49 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:05:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Divers Find World's Oldest Building


> From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com> [Robert Gates]
> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:42:44 EDT
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Divers Find World's Oldest Building

> >  Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:07:33 -0700
> >  From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl>
> >  To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >  Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Divers Find World's Oldest Building

> >  > From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com>
> >  > Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 21:28:20 EDT
> >  > To: updates@globalserve.net [Robert Gates]
> >  > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Divers Find World's Oldest Building

> <brevity snip>

> >  Hi Robert,

> >  It seems to me like you are almost WAITING for these people to
> >  make silly announcements. Too bad that there's quiet a lot to say
> >  for the findings Paleo-SETI has come up with yet. I'm not saying
> >  it's a closing hypothesis but take a look at what we DO have.

> Not waiting at all, just making a prediction based upon 20-30
> years in UFOs. For years in the UFO field some would have us
> believe that every discovery of ancient civilization was either:

>   a) An ET coloney on the earth

>   b) Somehow connected to Mars either by triangulations,
>      connections to Sirus or whatever,

>   c) All of the above.

Well as you say Robert, I think we can eliminate any of the
above. I had a look at the picture and to think this might be a
natural formation would be a bit of a stretch.  Since we are
steadily, it seems, pushing the history's  misty curtain back
further and further,  it looks like another piece of the puzzle
has fallen into place. There's no need to read any
extraterrestrial involvement into it. Considering Japan's violent
geological history it's not much of a leap to imagine that some
of their ancestors had built such a structure that was lost to an
earth quake somewhere in antiquity.

Let's treat it as such and leave ET out of it.

Don Ledger





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                              UFO Magazine [US]

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:23:14 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:47:18 -0400
Subject: UFO Magazine [US]

A few weeks back there was some discussion regarding changes in
the ownership of UFO Magazine, and Don Ecker responded that many
of the rumours were untrue and details would soon be posted to
their web page.

I wanted to note that there has been a change in the publication,
and it is partially outlined in an Editor's Note:

http://www.ufomagazine.com/HTML/UFO_Main_Ezine.html

================begin Editor's Note===================

UFO MAGAZINE, RE-ENVISIONED

After almost 12 years of existence, UFO Magazine has reached a
level of viability in the marketplace. While the UFO subject can
by no means vie with the Super Bowl or Presidential scandals for
instant leverage among casual readers, the phenomenon has grown
to become just as much an engaging part of popular
concsciousness, capturing the millennial Zeitgeist in a clever
mix of what's vitally important, newsworthy, inspirational,
entertaining and bizarre.

Luckily for everyone, enterprising people with the right media
focus have recognized this, and have stepped in to enable this
magazine to reach its full potential. With this issue, this
publication begins a new life, and we gratefully welcome our new
investors, whose ability to get on with the show appears to be
matched only by their enthusiasm for quality product.

Propelling us to a new level, the resources we now have available
allow us to proudly announce these upcoming changes: UFO Magazine
is going monthly.
Along with that, we're adding many more pages, so that each issue
can deliver the timeliest stories in ever more comprehensive
detail.

Our focus on accurate, hard-hitting UFO reporting remains, but
with a bonus. Now having close ties to the entertainment
industry, UFO Magazine will be able to bring exclusive coverage
of film, television and books, international media which form a
seductive nexus of fact and fiction, a place of reality that so
powerfully defines the UFO presence. Along with our steady
coverage of important UFO events and personalities, we hope to
get exclusive e interviews with some of the Industry's top
science-fiction film writers, directors and producers, men and
women whose visions contribute to a growing acceptance of our
place in the cosmos.

We will stay on top of the important stories, including the
ongoing saga of potentially ET-inspired technology. This issue
opens up an alternative history for the beloved transistor, its
possible link to the Roswell claims and to government disclosure
- a story sure to be turning up more than once this year.

On a whole different note, an open-minded hypnotherapist allows
us inside the memory of a woman whose close encounter is both
chilling and enlightening. It may portend a greater understanding
of something well outside our usual frames of reference. In
short, what's in store for you is cutting edge information
unavailable elsewhere. Unless and until the UFO phenomenon and
its related areas are accorded attention and respect by
mainstream news organizations, our mob is clear. Like John Elway
with the Super Bowl Trophy, it's been a long time coming to get
where we've always meant to be.

===============end Editor's Note==============

I would add that while they are "gratefully" welcomed, the "new
investors" atren't actually identified, which is (to some degree)
the issue raised by the earlier postings.  As it turns out, the
most recent edition of UFO Magazine has now hit the newsstands,
and it clearly shows that William Birnes is now the Publisher.

The question of whether or not Birnes, who co-authored "The Day
After Roswell", will help or hurt the veracity of the information
contained in the magazine has yet to be shown.  But one positive
change is the fact that the magazine will be publiched monthly,
rather than bi-monthly, and one can only hope that there will be
enough material to keep the pages interesting.

Steve Kaeser

PS- I apologize if this is "old news", but I thought it worth mentioning.










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                   Re: Divers Find World's Oldest Building

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:05:42 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:53:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Divers Find World's Oldest Building

Brian Straight wrote:

> From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
> To: "'updates@globalserve.net'" <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: World's Oldest Building
> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:35:08 -0500

> http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/Sunday-Times/frontpage.html?1781903

> Re my earlier posting, this Sunday Times link does not,
> apparently, take you to the appropriate page. Follow the link,
> then scroll down to select news about Britain, and then look for
> the article header re divers finding the world's oldest
> building.

Thanks for the clarification, Brian.  I was having trouble
finding the article.  If you are interested in this discovery,
you should check out:

http://www.lauralee.com/japan.htm

She has 16 photos of the "pyramids" on her web site.  The debate
has been ongoing for some time.

Terry







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                      UFOs Abductions = Computer Virus?

From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <pharaoh@web2000.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:33:06 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 23:21:23 -0400
Subject: UFOs Abductions = Computer Virus?

A remarkable parallel seems to exist between the abduction
phenomenon and a computer virus. They both have the ability to
spread, the computer virus from system to system, the abduction
from mind to conscience.

Virus in Latin means poison; an abduction is a poison in our
conscience. Computers that contract a virus are said to be
"infected"; we can say that abductee's consciences have been
"infected" by this circumstance.

Computer viruses act much like abductions that adulterate a human
conscience and then spread elsewhere. Some things the computer
virus can do include reformatting a hard drive, wiping out all of
its data and erasing programs and files, effectively destroying
them.

Abductions can wipe out our notion of reality, through
misinterpretations, thus erasing our basic concept of faith and
generally damaging our conscience.

The first viruses were the creation of computer hackers,
abductions were produced by entities called "grays".

In the late 1960s, computer students began coming up with all
kinds of virus related programs. At the same time, ufologists
began receiving abduction reports.

By the 1980s, computer viruses finally came onto the scene as a
real threat. At the same time, abduction reports arose as a
danger to our conscience.

In just a few years, infections of computer systems had become
epidemic; currently there are thousands of computer viruses
present throughout the world.

In recent years there has been a upsurge of abduction reports,
reaching epidemic proportions in the United States.

Antivirus software is designed to help prevent computer virus
infections, these programs perform one or more of the following
functions: Prevention, Detection, Removal, Vaccination and Damage
Control.

We lack something similar in science as we haven't come out with
any anti-abduction program. The worst that could happen to our
virus-infected computer is that you need to throw it away and buy
a new one, but you can't do the same with a conscience.

Abductions are spreading and infecting our consciences.

I saw a well known ufologist becoming an "abduction expert" and
self-taught clinical therapist and dissociating from the real UFO
phenomenon.

In our group, the Miami UFO Center, we have professionals to take
care of any real abduction case but will stick strictly to the
hard-core UFO incidents.

Visit:

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/1341/index.html

Dr.Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo
MIAMI UFO CENTER







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                    Re: Any More News Regarding Roswell?

From: KRandle993 <KRandle993@aol.com> [Kevin Randle]
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:39:42 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 23:09:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Any More News Regarding Roswell?

HI All -

Before we start a controversy here, let me clarify this
statement:

> Beyond that there has been no claim that Mac tried to interest
> the weather people in it. He certainly didn't say that to me on
> the various times I talked to him.

It should have read:

 Beyond that there has been no claim that Mac tried to interest
 the weather people in it. His son, Bill  certainly didn't say that
 to me on the various times I talked to him.

KRandle






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               Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca>
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:06:17 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:42:22 -0400
Subject: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs


> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs
> From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:04:56 -0400
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> > Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:03:42 GMT
> > From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net>
> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> > Subject: Re:  UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

> > That's the most explainable and probable scenario.  It wobbled
> > too much to be a real flying machine - especially from another
> > world.

> As any one who has studied the many reliable reports knows, the
> reported "wobble" is a standard from the earliest days of the
> phenomenon.

> Why it occurs is unknown, but that it is part of the case
> literature is undeniable.

> Given that we know relatively little about UFOs and their
> principles of operation, I can see no reason for an a priori
> assumption that they should not behave in a way that is is
> clearly reported that they do behave.

> Paul Hill experimented with flying platforms and found the wobble
> and the often reported rocking motion could be used as a form of
> fine altitude control by directing the lifting force away from
> the vertical in a controllable and periodic fashion. This is but
> one of several reported behaviors which may indicate that a
> "throttling" of the UFO lift mechanism is either difficult,
> undesirable, or slow to respond to minor changes.

I believe that they now call it thrust vectoring. It is notworthy
that without this new form of stabilising those extremely heavy
rockets that NASA was trying to send aloft without fins for
guidence and stability (which are useless unless there is a lot
of air flowing by them) these rockets would never have gotten off
the ground. When one of the old Saturn 5's (or the newer shuttle)
was/is lifting off it too was experiencing minute vertical
correction ocillations (wobbling) while it attempted to get off
the pad. It used thrust vectoring, an outgrowth of Hill's work I
wonder?

Don Ledger






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                   School Project On Unexplained Mysteries

From: <*****@*****> [Marie]
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:42:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:06:13 -0400
Subject: School Project On Unexplained Mysteries

Hello,

I am 15 and doing a project on unexplained mysteries.

I am doing it on Aliens.

I feel that we aren't the only ones out here, there are other
ones out there.  Why would God only create us?  There are others
out in Space probably thinking the same thing we are. Are there
others out there, or they know that we are here?  But all we know
for sure is that we are here.  Maybe we will never find out,
maybe we will.

So all we can do is wait.

Sincerley,
Marie






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                        Re: RAF Tracks UFOs On Radar

From: eotl@west.net [Jeff Rense]
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 22:56:59 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:11:39 -0400
Subject: Re: RAF Tracks UFOs On Radar

>Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:20:36 -0400
>From: David Clarke <dclarke14@compuserve.com>
>Subject: RAF tracks UFOs on Radar
>To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net>

>>From Dave Clarke, BUFORA Press Officer


Stig,

Hi. It's a hoax. Check my Headlines for the banner.  Darn!






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                             Re: 24,000 mph UFO

From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 23:03:33 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:12:42 -0400
Subject: Re: 24,000 mph UFO

At 15:59 98-04-27 -0400, you wrote:
>Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 07:17:00 +0000
>From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: [Fwd: 24,000 mph UFO bullshit!]

>The recent wave of European triangle sightings, possibly an
>extension of the Hudson Valley operations of 1983-1988, began in
>Belgium in late 1989/early 1990 where a large triangular
>aircraft, based at Boscombe Down and perhaps also RNAS Yeovilton,
>was reported by numerous credible witnesses as hovering at low
>altitude.

Philip,

We had a thread on the Belgium UFO flap on the List a couple of
months ago. This is the first time this 'explanation' comes up.

Could you be more specific about this 'large triangular aircraft,
based at Boscombe Down and perhaps also RNAS Yeovilton (...)
reported by numerous credible witnesses'?

Serge Salvaille






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                                 BAR 199804

From: BufoCalvin <BufoCalvin@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 00:36:33 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:06:55 -0400
Subject: BAR 199804

Bufo Calvin
P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA  94596
Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Website: <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin">http://members.aol.com/bufo
calvin<;/a>
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this
edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that attribution is made
to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with
strangers before you e-mail them something.  If you forward this, please make
sure it is clear that you are forwarding it).
April, 1998 (Vol. 1, #4)

Books mentioned in BAR can be ordered on most e-mail systems by clicking on
the hyperlink title.  This will take you to the book at Amazon.com.  You can
read more about it at that point and decide if you want to order it.  If you
do, you add it to your "shopping cart".  Then, if you want another title
mentioned here, please click on it in this post.  If you have questions,
please e-mail Bufo at bufocalvin@aol.com.  Books are also available by phone
from Greenleaf Publications at 1-800-905-UFOs (1-800-905-8367).  If you call,
please be sure to tell them that Bufo sent you.

Also, I am considering starting to list books recommended by other people.  If
you have a book you'd like to recommend, please let me know (and let me know
if I should credit you and list your e-mail).

Finally, I'd like to be able to carry the new bigfoot book by John
Bindernagel.  Amazon has been pretty good about getting books that I suggest,
so that I can offer them to you.  However, I don't have the ISBN or contact
information, and I'd really appreciate it if somebody out there could let me
know.

In this issue: Featured Title, Recent Additions, and Most Intriguing.

----------

FEATURED TITLE

MONSTERS OF THE SEA
( <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0385482337/bufosweirdworldA/
">Monsters of the Sea</A> )
Subtitle: the history, natural history, and mythology of the ocean's most
fantastic creatures
By Richard Ellis
This Edition Published: March, 1996
Trade (large-size) Paperback, 429 pages
Photos, Illustrations, Bibliography, Index
List Price: $12.95, Amazon Price*: $10.36

Many years ago, I was really introduced to all this weird stuff by a book by
Gardner Soule entitled THE MAYBE MONSTERS.  While I seem to spend more of my
time lately with UFO related matters, cryptozoology has always been my
favorite specialty in "anomalistics".  I was really looking forward to reading
this book, having heard of it being extensive and well-referenced.  I
certainly did enjoy it.  However, I don't know if I quite think it the classic
of cryptozoology that some others have labelled it.  While it seems to have
its science down well, it is another example of someone who seems to feel he
is slumming it by approaching this kind of topic.  In fact, his first sentence
in the preface is "Although I didn't realize it when I began this study, there
has been a long progression of writers who have chosen to tackle the subject
of sea monsters."  While he seems to have read some of those writers
subsequently, there is a sort of "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" feel to the book.

That said, I can still recommend it.  Despite being a bit disjointed, it does
cover a variety of topics (some of which are appropriate to the title).  I was
fascinated by some of the information on the anatomy of giant squids, for
example.  Giant squids are by far more prominent in the book than are sea
serpents per se.  It is also refreshing to have a well-documented book, with
many classic and rarer photographs.

Readers who are interested in a book that can be categorized as solid and safe
will enjoy it.

----------

RECENT ADDITIONS:

Some of the titles recently added to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Books include:

Alien Obsession
(
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1565078497/bufosweirdworldA/">
Alien Obsession</A> )
Subtitle: Abductions, Sightings & the Attraction to the Paranormal
by Ron Rhodes
Paperback, 270 pages
Publication Date: March, 1998
List Price: $9.99, Amazon Price*: $7.99

Animals as Teachers and Healers
( <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0345421175/bufosweirdworldA/
">Animals as Teachers and Healers</A> )
Subtitle: True Stories and Reflections
by Susan Chernak McElroy and Michael W. Fox
Paperback, 252 pages
Publication Date: March, 1998
List Price: $12.00, Amazon Price*: $9.60

Area 51: The Dreamland Chronicles
(
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0805047778/bufosweirdworldA/">
Area 51: The Dreamland Chronicles</A> )
by David Darlington
Hardback, 320 pages
Publication Date: November, 1997
List Price: $25.00, Amazon Price*: $17.50

Confirmation
( <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/031218557X/bufosweirdworldA/
">Confirmation: The Hard Evidence of Aliens Among Us</A> )
by Whitley Strieber
Hardcover, 256 pages
Publication Date: May, 1998
List Price: $23.95, Amazon Price: $16.77
Strieber, author of the best-selling COMMUNION, is one of the top rank figures
in the alien abduction field.  This book will undoubtedly get some major
coverage.

Crop Circles - Returning Rulers from Biblical Planet Olam
( <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1883424550/bufosweirdworldA/
">Crop Circles - Returning Rulers from Biblical Planet Olam</A> )
Subtitle: Ancient Astronaut Colonizers Reveal Themselves, 1976-1996
by Steve Canada
Paperback, pagination unknown
Publication Date: March, 1998
List Price: $12.95, Amazon Price*: $12.95

Glimpses of Other Realities: High Strangeness, Vol. 2
( <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1879706784/bufosweirdworldA/
">Glimpses of Other Realities: High Strangeness, Vol. 2</A> )
by Linda Moulton Howe
Paperback, 512 pages
Publication Date: March, 1998
List Price: $27.95, Amazon Price*: $22.36

The Hauntings of Williamsburg, Yorktown, and Jamestown
(
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0895872102/bufosweirdworldA/
">The Hauntings of Williamsburg, Yorktown, and Jamestown</A> )
by Jackie Eileen Behrend
Paperback, pagination unknown
Publication Date: March, 1998
List Price: $9.95, Amazon Price*: $7.96

----------

MOST INTRIGUING:

Last month's five most visited titles at Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Books were:

1. Talking to Heaven
(
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0525942688/bufosweirdworldA/">
Talking to Heaven : A Medium's Message of Life After Death</A> )
Subtitle: A Medium's Message of Life After Death
by James Van Praagh
List Price: $20.95, Amazon Price*: $14.67

2. Auras : See Them in Only 60 Seconds
(
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1567186432/bufosweirdworldA/">
Auras : See Them in Only 60 Seconds</A> )
by Mark Smith
List Price: $12.95, Amazon Price*: $10.36

3. (tie) The Alien Files
(
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1862041350/bufosweirdworldA/">
The Alien Files : The Secret of Extra-Terrestrial Encounters and Abducti</A> )
Subtitle: The Secret of Extra-Terrestrial Encounters and Abductions
by Gregory Van Dyk
List Price: $24.95, Amazon Price*: $17.47

3. (tie) Field Guide to Mysterious Places of Eastern North America
(
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0805044493/bufosweirdworldA/">
Field Guide to Mysterious Places of Eastern North America</A> )
by Salvatore M. Trento
List Price: $18.95, Amazon Price*: $15.16

5. Children's Past Lives
(
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=055357485X/bufosweirdworldA/">
Childen's Past Lives: How Past Life Memories Affect Your Child</A> )
Subtitle: How Past Life Memories Affect Your Child
by Carol Bowman
List Price: $6.50, Amazon Price*: $5.20





This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!"

____________________________

*Prices are set by Amazon.com.  Clicking on the link will take you to their curr
ent listing and reflect the current price.
____________________________

You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly
redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by
e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com.  You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to
Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert or Bufo's WEIRD WORLD the same way.  Bufo's WEIRD
 WORLD Books is in Association with Amazon.com.
_____________________________

**OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an
Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS
encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions:
however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece
or others presented under my own na





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   Apr > Apr 28

                   Antelope Valley-Palmdale or Lancaster?

From: "duane foster" <osiris05@sprynet.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:34:23 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:15:29 -0400
Subject: Antelope Valley-Palmdale or Lancaster?

Please send me any info you may have on where there are meetings
or any groups for this discussion on the subject of UFOs, in the
Antelope Valley-Palmdale or Lancaster area.

Thank you very much.

V. Kline





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   Apr > Apr 28

             UFO 'Wobble' [was: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies'...]

From: "Leanne Martin" <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:30:26 PDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:00:52 -0400
Subject: UFO 'Wobble' [was: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies'...]


>Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 15:04:04 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

>>Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 09:56:29 +0200
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and
holographs

>>>Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:03:42 GMT
>>>From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>Subject: Re:  UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and
                 holographs

>>>That's the most explainable and probable scenario.  It wobbled
>>>too much to be a real flying machine - especially from another
>>>world.

>>And just where is the logic behind this one? I doubt strongly
>>that you're much of a true expert on the mechanics of a real
>>extraterrestrial craft to "know" what can or cannot be. It's all
>>opinion with no basis in fact, no one can tell beforehand if an
>>extraterrestrial "saucer" wobbles too much or far too less, or
>>should not even wobble at all. I'm not saying the Mexico film
>>is real, your "argument" just has no merit.

<snip>

>>Aside from that, "wobbling" behavior has been consistently
>>present in quite a number of UFO reports, you might want to
>>check Paul Hill's "Unconventional Flying Objects" for details,
>>or see NICAP's "UFO Evidence" for reports.

>I have had several "sightings" (some of them multiple witness)
>and I have observed this odd 'wobbling' on _more_than_one_
>occasion_. That's eyewitness testimony.

<snip>

>John Velez ;-)

Ladies & Gentlefolk,

On the subject of the 'wobble' in a true UFO:-

1. If high speed right angle turns have no destructive effect on
a UFO and/or its occupants then why would a wobble worry it
assuming that everything within the crafts shell experiences no
inertia;

2. The wobble may indicate that the craft's antigravitic and/or
magnetic drive is reacting ever so sensitively to the earth's own
magnetic and/or gravitic field fluctuations;

3. The wobble may be a 'ripple effect' distorting the passage of
loght reflected off the craft - possible cuased by the drive
field disrupting the immediate atmosphere's refractive
properties.

Leanne Martin
Computer Engineer @ WANG GLOBAL Australia











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                             Re: 24,000 mph UFO

From: John Heptonstall <Heptonstall@mac-tcm.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:31:31 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:33:24 -0400
Subject: Re: 24,000 mph UFO

>Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 07:17:00 +0000
>From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: [Fwd: 24,000 mph UFO bullshit!]


Hi Phil

Thanks for the timely update; I thought the 'informant' was
probably Mark Birdsall!!- he's been getting a lot of mileage out
of his 'mate' at the YEP, Wikinson, this past few weeks what with
the 'Leeds UFO' story and having set them up with Ken Field and
George Hickinson's video stories.

I must admit at least one YEP article did Birdsall no credit,
that was last weekend and written by another journalist who I
spoke to; some old guy had contacted them as he'd seen/heard the
'Leeds UFOs' and decided they were microlights due to engine
noise and movement, suggested that aliens wuld have had to modify
their mode of travel to support Birdsall's claim that 'sightings
best example of UFOs over Leeds for about 15 years'!! In fact
microlight is not a very good guess unless the pilots wore dark
glasses to avoid destruction of night vision from such bright
lights+ difficult to avoid detection hovering/moving slowly over
Leeds City Centre.

Maybe the UFO Mag. are near the edge and hope to avoid the Alien
Encounters etc. Mags' doom by eliciting as much speculation about
UFOs as poss. at this time. It's certainly a strong coincidence
that Birdsall hasn't been out of the papers, hardly, this past
two weeks. Also the content of the latest UFO mag leaves much to
be desired. If the UT had anu current mileage we could have
outdone them with at least four brilliant case reviews, perhaps
five if I include my Leeds one- copy with Gloria at moment and
awaiting last couple of sources' input before completion.

There has been much speculation about a massive 'platform'
triangle for a few years built by US military. Anyone able to
visit Cranwell or obtain preview?

Cheers

--
John Heptonstall







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                   New Free Report To Updates Subscribers

From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> [Tim Matthews]
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 23:53:33 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:16:27 -0400
Subject: New Free Report To Updates Subscribers

Dear All,

for a free copy of my important new report entitled "Flying Saucers -
Secret History!" please email me. It deals with both wartime German and
postwar American flying saucer technologies and it has been well-received
so far. Hopefully the report will stimulate debate and focus the better
minds in Ufology on the vital question of man-made UFOs....

Tim Matthews

matthews@zetnet.co.uk





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                            Re: UFO Magazine [US]

From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com> [Robert Gates]
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 18:15:51 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:26:39 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine [US]

>  Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:23:14 -0400
>  To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>  From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>  Subject: UFO Magazine

>  A few weeks back there was some discussion regarding changes in
>  the ownership of UFO Magazine, and Don Ecker responded that many
>  of the rumours were untrue and details would soon be posted to
>  their web page.

>  I wanted to note that there has been a change in the publication,
>  and it is partially outlined in an Editor's Note:

>  http://www.ufomagazine.com/HTML/UFO_Main_Ezine.html


As I recall when I picked up the latest UFO mag, I got the distinct
impression that Don and Vickie are "branching out" so to speak.

From what you posted it seems to be true.

Cheers,
Robert





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                           Philip Burden Unveiled

From: David Clarke <dclarke14@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:15:32 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:23:25 -0400
Subject: Philip Burden Unveiled

From Dave Clarke, Sheffield, Yorkshire.

Further to Graham Birdsalls question "who is Philip Burden"....

The answer is that he is a former editor of the RAF's in-house
magazine, RAF News. He lef "under a cloud" t in the late 80s or
early 90s, I am given to understand, and has since made himself a
bit of a nuisance to his former employers the MOD.

According to a very good source in Whitehall, this character is
in the habit of picking out articles and letters from current
issues of the magazine, embellishing them and selling them to the
national Press.

One of the tall tales he is cited as being responsible for
concerns a story which surfaced in the nationals concerning an
incident during a visit by the famous Red Arrows RAF display team
to the Far East. This yarn claimed that the MOD top brass had
prevented the team from marking out Princess Diana's signature in
the sky with their famous multi-coloured contrails as a tribute
to the late Royal.

Apparently this story was bogus, and the MOD are using it as a
yardstick with which to measure Monday's claims about radar tapes
and giant UFOs.

"A good source?" one official told me, "More like HP sauce." But
whoever the mysterious Mr Burden is he has certainly rattled some
feathers at the RAF, and who knows, perhaps he does know a few
titbits about the inner sanctum.

But obviously he has not gone so far as to be in breach of the
Official Secrets Act. Well not as far as we know.

Certainly, the journalists I have spoken to have commented on how
unusual it is for the Press Office to cite a particular named
ex-employee in the way they have done.

Well that's one side of the story.

The Daily Express reporter who produced Monday's claim's about
giant UFOs tracked by RAF Fylingdales tells me Burden is a
legitimate source [he is the "RAF source" mentioned in the
article] and is being unfairly maligned by his former employers.

He says he stands by the story, and claims that when he initially
contacted the MOD they did not deny it outright and reluctantly
admitted that Burden was right about the place and time of the
RAF Cranwell meeting.

The reporter at the Express says it is only after they and the
Mail broke the story that the MOD have decided to deny it all
outright.

Perhaps Mr Burden might like to unload his Burden on the net and
give us his side of the story...

If I don't track him down first, that is.





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             DISPATCH # 93 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope

From: ParaScope <ParaScope@AOL.COM>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:06:32 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:24:18 -0400
Subject: DISPATCH # 93 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope

DISPATCH # 93 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope

S O M E T H I N G   S T R A N G E   I S   H A P P E N I N G

4/28/98

Quote of the Week

"I believe we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and democracy -
but that could change."

-- Vice President Dan Quayle, May 1989


-----------------------

Rant of the Week: �If the Shirt Fits...�

Every week we pick the wackiest, scariest, nastiest or funniest rant from the
hundreds of letters received by us here at ParaScope headquarters, and present
it to you as our Rant of the Week. This week, we delve into a bit of a
mystery, and ask for our readers� help in solving it. The following list was
provided to ParaScope (anonymously, of course) with the subject line of
�hypnosis.� We encourage you all to ponder its implications. Enjoy.


1. Fort Benning GA
2. Alien abduction
3. The Beatles
4. LSD
5. Abortion
6. Telephone
7. Travel
8. Schizophrenia
9. Radio talk shows
10. Nazis

------

All rants are printed �as is,� with spelling and grammar goofs left
uncorrected. Some rants may be edited for brevity or clarity, to the extent
such a thing is possible. If you�ve got a rant you�d like to share, send it to
pscplady@aol.com with �possible rant� in the subject line of your letter.

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Win a Free X-Files CD-ROM

If you haven�t yet entered our contest with Fox Interactive to win a Free X-
Files Unlimited Access CD-ROM, there�s still time. Watch the ParaScope site
for the X-Files banners for details, answer a simple trivia question, and you
may be the lucky winner who walks away with the most comprehensive and
compelling collection of X-Files information ever compiled. Hurry! The truth
is out there.

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Coming Up This Week!

Catch a number of great stories this week on a daily basis on America Online
or all at once this Friday on the web site, including daily updates to our
Conspiracy Newsline and Daily Dose features. Among the articles you'll want to
check out:



James Earl Ray is Dead

James Earl Ray, the accused assassin of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., has died
from liver disease. For thirty years, he was denied a full trial for the
alleged crime, even though King's family has expressed their belief that Ray
didn't do the shooting. And although Ray was diagnosed with hepatitis C as
early as 1994, prison medical authorities did not make this information known
until he went into a coma in December 1996. Now, prosecutors in the case are
hoping that with Ray in a coffin, they'll be able to nail the lid down on King
assassination conspiracy theories once and for all. But with Coretta Scott
King calling for a national commission to conduct a new inquiry into the
assassination, this story is far from over. Get the latest news and a complete
update, online now.

--------------------

The Martian Anomalies:
Mars Global Surveyor Snaps Photo of the Cydonia "City Pyramid"

On April 23, the Mars Global Surveyor sent back new imaging data of a
collection of anomalous objects known as "the City." The target strip was
supposed to include an object known as "the Fortress," but this object was
missed by several miles. However, the new photo shows a nearby pyramidal
structure, one of the "City Pyramids" which some believe may be artificial
constructions built by intelligent alien beings millions of years ago. Indeed,
the new City Pyramid photo does indicate that the structure is faceted -- but
does that necessarily indicate non-natural origins? As the debate over the new
Cydonia photos rages, review the latest photographic evidence for yourself.

--------------------

Shroud of Turin Exposed

On April 19, the Shroud of Turin went on public display for the first time in
20 years, marking the 500th anniversary of the consecration of the Turin
Cathedral. The historic exhibition comes hot on the heels of renewed claims of
the Shroud's authenticity: recent studies have refuted carbon-dating tests
from 1988, which concluded that the cloth was a medieval hoax that dated back
to between 1260 and 1390. New evidence suggests that those test results may
have been severely distorted by contaminants in the fabric, and a type of
pollen found in the fibers seemingly links the Shroud to Jerusalem at the time
of Christ. Enigma editor D. Trull wraps up all the latest news surrounding the
controversial holy relic.

--------------------

The Paper Trail: All New Edition

Dossier's review of old secrets and new releases is back. In this month's
Paper Trail: the latest tobacco industry documents (and deceptions) go public;
the CIA stands accused by State Department historians of foot-dragging on
promised declassifications -- making official U.S. history "an official lie";
and much more.

--------------------

Brazil's "New World Order" UFO Cult

In the heart of Brazil's southern plateau lies a village called Valley of the
Dawn. In this unique rural community, medieval Sephardic Judaism is mixed with
the worship of extra terrestrials to form a most unexpected new religion.
Barry Chamish, the Israeli journalist who blew the lid off the Yitzhak Rabin
assassination, recently travelled to the Valley of the Dawn along with Budd
Hopkins, Michael Hesemann and Whitley Streiber for a UFO conference, hoping
for an enriching discussion of the phenomena. But they soon found themselves
exploited by a group called the League of Goodwill, whose buildings in
Brasilia and Rio have signs out side reading "The World Ecumenical
Parliament." Amidst a mishmash of Christian, Babylonian, Egyptian and Marxist
symbology, a platoon of black-suited young toughs with walkie-talkies kept the
UFOlogists under constant surveillance. Chamish brings us a special report on
this spooky New World Order cult.

--------------------

Conspiracy Newsline

Daily updates for cognitive dissidents and other dangerous thought criminals.


...All this, and much, much more!

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing!

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you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway?
Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up!

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That's all there is to it!

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----------------------------------------

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                        The UFO Times, Texas Edition

From: Michael Harman <mike_harman@rocketmail.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 21:34:57 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 08:58:18 -0400
Subject: The UFO Times, Texas Edition


Check out our new web site:
THE UFO TIMES TEXAS EDITION
You can find it at the following URL.
It's packed full of Texas sightings and articles.
Submit your own Texas sightings.

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/6514/







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                XPI/AUFON Films Triangular Shaped UFO in N.C.

From: "Stefan Duncan" <duncan@tarheel.net>
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 03:35:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:02:32 -0400
Subject: XPI/AUFON Films Triangular Shaped UFO in N.C.

Just a quick posting. At 12:15 a.m. Wednesday morning, I spotted
a bright glow about a fist high and 1/2 mile (estimate) to the
east of me while traveling on Bringle Ferry Road just at the city
limit of Salisbury. I pulled out my video camera and began
recording.

This object appeared to be hovering when I first saw it almost over I-85.

The object then moved southward several hundred yards over
several houses, then moved toward the road before me. This craft
appears to make a turn completely on its side, then levels out in
the turn as it continued on its way 30 or so miles an hour
(that's a wild estimate).

I have this on video tape.

A more detail report will be in  issue AUFON8 that will be out later  today.
As part of XPI, I had begun observation stakeouts in the vicinity of Bringle
Ferry Road and High Rock Lake. Details and observations of the UFO sightings
are weekly updated in the XPI FILES column in AUFON. The first sighting
report of the triangular shaped crafts in the High Rock Lake/Bringle Ferry
Road were reported in December of 1997 and are apparently on going.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Stefan Duncan
Director of XPI
Editor of AUFON
MUFON Sect. State Dir. of N.C.
614 N. Ellis St.
Salisbury, N.C.
28144
(704)636-9811
http://www.aufon.com
Report your UFO sightings and ET related stories in AUFON. If interested in
becoming a XPI member, application and info are on the AUFON web site.






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   Apr > Apr 29

                            Alfred's Odd Ode #243

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 04:41:07 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:04:07 -0400
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #243

Apology to MW #243 (For April 29, 1998)

How can you get all hardnosed, and act like you're the plan; you
that call yourself a scientist, and pretend to understand. You
just rest on faithful models, and your tricky paradigms -- and
lord help those that won't buy in; you'll just say they've lost
their minds. You'll campaign so they can't publish -- shout so
loud they can't be heard. You typify despicable. You're a
psychopathic cur!

I despise you. I abhor you when you sell us out for bucks -- when
you suck the lusts of privilege you betray the human trust. I
care not on your fence side! It's not that kind of struggle; just
be damned when you're a gainful liar. If I can I'll pop you're
bubble.

You live contrived and pleasant lies; you're safe behind your
walls; you're owning your own lawyer, so you're knowing all the
stalls. If things get hot, they're slick as snot, your dirty
tricks brigade. You can count on their discretion -- just as
_long_ as they are paid? You can shut away what scares you, 'til
your eyes can't see what's there! You can have a little drinkie,
and pretend that you're not scared. You can roll in squalid flesh
piles if that rings your tiny bell. You can run from all your
nightmares; UFO's can be your hell.

If it's not your precious property, or a *fair-won* trophy wife,
then it really won't concern you. It can't freshen up your life.
It won't fatten your account. It won't land you on your feet --
so what�s the bleedin' point, you reason? Why not make _your_
life complete!

"So tell me, precious 'Poet Boy'," he snaps his angered sneer,
"What in hell do you give out, you whining, leftist queer"!
"What's your gallant sacrifice; what do you give up. what do you
contribute"? He drops his Cuban in my cup. "With the big bucks
you're no different," and he shoots his silken cuffs. " You
believe in UFO's"!!  . . .like that would be enough. "You're a
nut case. You're a bonehead. You're a liberal bleeding heart. You
whine your stupid spewage that is off accepted charts! You
badmouth honored science that has given us the power to tame this
world with human will"!  He stands there, huge, and
glowers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm a soldier and a teacher, and I give and get respect. I've
always shot for excellence and my reach exceeds my grasp. I pay
my way; I drive old cars; I'll not abuse advantage of a system,
or a program, or a human, or do damage. I've always been of
service, and I worked the harder jobs. And I've learned about the
women I now give respectful nods. My wife? She drives a school
bus. My son is not in jail <g>. My friends? They say they love
me, and it's them I shall not fail. My charged *belief* in UFO's
is strictly common sense. I've seen them, wealthy cousin, if you
can't it's 'cause you're dense. My wage? It's near the bottom
when compared the least of you, but I would give up _everything_
-- as long as you do, too
<g>.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

I'd give up quite a bit to improve our schools, empty our
prisons, or end casual suffering. It's in _my_ best interest.

One the flip side, when I tithe up 15% to the man (which in a
*better* world is _not_ a bad thing) it's a big chunk out of my
figurative ass!
When William does it (even a scaled 15% much, much larger than my
tiny 15%) it's a mere itch on _his_ massive figurative -- hardly
deserving of even a distracted scratch. You'd argue scale, when
we both know that William can figure ways to pay out _much_ less
than 15% . I'd argue that everyone should attempt to
self-actualize, and once you self-actualize you should then make
contribution to another's self-actualization <g>.
Doing that will empty our prisons, push the DOW to efficacious
highs, feed a respected population, and have  EBE's landing on
the White House lawn with offers for federation membership <g>.

For the last five years, or so, I've been asking who has to _pay_
so I can _play_. The answer to that question is, at first,
unsettling. There is more living without some of the things you
thought you couldn't live without -- sure! But less _is_ more.
It's true! And there's comfort in it. Moreover, we _could_ save
ourselves while living richer, fuller, and more satisfying
lives.

There is absolutely no reason why general life should harmfully
raise your blood pressure. It begs the question why it does.

--
Explore the Alien View?

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake.






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   Apr > Apr 29

                        Re: UFO-related Audio Files?

From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl>
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 16:31:58 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:11:44 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO-related Audio Files?

Hello people,

Is there anyone of you who can help me get UFO-related .WAV or
.AUD- files from the net?

I'm espacially interessted in any soundfiles of Art Bell's show
or files concerning the Elders or the mexico-"UFO".

I'd really appreciate it...

Kind regards,

Andy Denne
aura.aa@wxs.nl





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   Apr > Apr 29

                 Re: eSufo - Cydonia "city" images available

From: Dave Pigott <davep@harlequin.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:16:21 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:10:16 -0400
Subject: Re: eSufo - Cydonia "city" images available


>Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 11:01:04 +0100
>From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: eSufo - Cydonia "city" images available

>> From: "David Watanabe" <davew@exosci.com>
>> Subject: eSufo - Cydonia "city" images available
>> To: UFO@exosci.com
>> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 02:50:34 -0800

>> exoScience UFO * 4/15/98 * exosci.com/ufo

>> * CYDONIA "CITY" IMAGES FROM MARS GLOBAL SURVEYOR

>>   - the MGS has now imaged the "City" portion of Cydonia.  The
>> images are available on our website.

><snip>

>Hi Dave and list,

>I've been looking at these images for over a week now and I think this
>is a case of apples and oranges. The new mesa doesn't look to me to be
>the same as the old mesa, let alone an image match. I can go one way or
>the other on this thing but can anyone assure me that the site imaged by
>Surveyor is the same site as the Viking picture?

>Don Ledger

Well, Don, if it isn't then there is an absolutely incredible
coincidence of geography. The sites are obviously so self similar
that one has to conclude they are the same, but that the
conclusion of intelligent interference is just not credible, at
least for Cydonia.

Dave







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                              Re: UFO 'Wobble'

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 04:24:19 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:23:52 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO 'Wobble'


>From: "Leanne Martin" <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs
>Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:30:26 PDT


>>Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 15:04:04 -0500
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and holographs

>>>Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 09:56:29 +0200
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl>
>>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and
>holographs

>>>>Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:03:42 GMT
>>>>From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net>
>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>>Subject: Re:  UFO UpDate: Re: UPN's 'Danger in our Skies' and

> ..      It wobbled  too much to be a real flying machine
> - especially

> from another world.     [

Some fool

> And just where is the logic behind this one?

Well put.

> .. . I'm not saying the Mexico film
> is real,  [but] your "argument" just has no merit.

<Please forgive major deletions>

> Ladies & Gentlefolk,

> On the subject of the 'wobble' in a true UFO:-

> 1. If high speed right angle turns have no destructive effect on
> a UFO and/or its occupants then why would a wobble worry it
> assuming that everything within the crafts shell experiences no
> inertia;

> 2. The wobble may indicate that the craft's antigravitic and/or
> magnetic drive is reacting ever so sensitively to the earth's own
> magnetic and/or gravitic field fluctuations;

> 3. The wobble may be a 'ripple effect' distorting the passage of
> loght reflected off the craft - possible cuased by the drive
> field disrupting the immediate atmosphere's refractive
> properties.

> Leanne Martin
> Computer Engineer @ WANG GLOBAL Australia

Dear readers:

In addition to L. Martin's interpretation, I would like to add
the thoroughly speculative suggestion of a PURPOSEFUL wobble.

Certain types of surveillance satellites have been known to
"wobble", in order to gain a wider field of view! While wild,
uncontrolled wobbles or tumbles are uniformly avoided in any
space program, a controlled 'wobble' might provide more
useful information.

The optic effects of such motions may be simply "de-wobbled"
by means of software, given sufficiently powerful automata.

On the other hand, the UFOnauts, far from the stern purview of
their overseers, may have simply had a few drinks too many.


Best Wishes

-  Larry Hatch






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   Apr > Apr 30

              Re: UK Conference - 'UFOs - The Global Evidence'

From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 17:18:48 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:42:42 -0400
Subject: Re: UK Conference - 'UFOs - The Global Evidence'

>Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 22:57:32 -0400
>From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Stop Press UK Conference
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


>UK Conference
>Sunday 26th July 1998
>U.F.O.'s - The Global Evidence

>Speakers:-
>- Dr. Steven Greer ( U.S.A. ) - CE-5's/Disclosure
>- Michael Hesemann ( Germany ) - UFO Report 2000 - The Best Cases
>  of the Nineties (including video footage)
>- Nick Redfern ( U.K. ) - The British Government Cover-Up

Due to popluar demand, the venue and ticket details are:-

Venue:-

Castle Hall
The wash
Hertford
Hertfordshire
SG14 1PS

26th July 1998
Doors Open 10:30 a.m.
Conference 11.00 a.m. to 7.00 p.m.

Tickets =A315.00 on the day ( subject to availability )
Advanced Booking =A312.50 Concessions ( O.A.P.'s & under 14's ) =A38.50

To book your tickets in advance please contact
TSpurrier@compuserve.com

Thanks, Tony





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   Apr > Apr 30

                     911 UFO Report W/Radar Verification

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:14:14 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:38:36 -0400
Subject: 911 UFO Report W/Radar Verification

Received via alt.alien.visitors April 29 at 10.02 local time (GMT
+ 1 hour).

Stig

*******

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 07:48:25 GMT
From: cybroid@nospam.worldnet.att.net (Brian)
Subject: 911 UFO Report W/Radar Verification
Message-ID: <6i6lub$ajk@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>


This is a 911 dispatcher recording of a UFO report called in by
multiple witnesses. The dispatcher then calls the National
Weather Bureau and has it verified on radar.

You will need the Real Player to hear it. You can find it at:

http://ww2.audionet.com/artbell/archive.html#apr98

Click on the Monday Night/ Tuesday Morning 4-27-98, Art Bell
show. The recording is about 30 minutes. Drag the time bar and
start listening at 2 hours, 5 minutes on the Real Player timer.

--
Brian
cybroid@nospam.worldnet.att.net
To reply by email, remove nospam. from address







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                     Books -- Some New, Some Not-so-new

From: RSchatte <RSchatte@aol.com> [Rebecca]
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:48:50 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:35:46 -0400
Subject: Books -- Some New, Some Not-so-new

Hello from Amazon.com Books!

As you requested, we are notifying you of new books matching the
following criteria:

      keywords include "UFO"

The new books are listed at the end of this message.  If you're
interested in any of these books, you can order them online at
http://www.amazon.com/ .

Your most humble automated search agent,


If you'd like to sign up, visit us at
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/subst/editors/editors-signup.html !
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Night Siege : The Hudson Valley Ufo Sightings"
by
J. Allen Hynek, Philip J. Imbrogno, Bob Pratt

List: $9.95 -- Our Price: $7.96 -- You Save: $1.99 (20%)

Subjects: Unidentified flying objects; Sightings and encounters;
          Hudson River Valley ; New Age / Parapsychology; Body, Mind
          & Spirit; UFOs

Publisher: Llewellyn Publications
2nd Edition
Binding: Paperback
Expected publication date: May 1998
ISBN: 156718362X
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=156718362X/e


------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The Psychic Sasquatch : The Ufo Connection"
by
Jack Lapseritis

List: $18.95 -- Our Price: $15.16 -- You Save: $3.79 (20%)

Subjects: New Age; New Age / Parapsychology; Body, Mind & Spirit

Publisher: Blue Water Publishing
Binding: Paperback
Expected publication date: May 1998
ISBN: 0926524178
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0926524178/e

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Ufo Sightings : The Evidence"
by
Robert Sheaffer

List: $25.95 -- Our Price: $18.17 -- You Save: $7.78 (30%)

Subjects: New Age; Science

Publisher: Prometheus Books
Binding: Hardcover
Expected publication date: May 1998
ISBN: 1573922137
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1573922137/e





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                    Re: Any More News Regarding Roswell?

From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 22:29:55 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:45:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Any More News Regarding Roswell?

Regarding...

>From: KRandle993 <KRandle993@aol.com> [Kevin Randle]
>Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:33:21 EDT
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Any More News Regarding Roswell?

Kevin wrote:

>>As you know, Brazel's daughter Bessie recalled, "The debris looked
>>like pieces of a large balloon which had burst..."

>Yes, and she said that she and her dad had picked it ALL up.


Kevin,

Off-hand, I'm not familiar with Bessie making this claim, when
did she say this?

I do know that in 'The Roswell Incident', she reportedly stated,
"We never found any other pieces of it afterwards - after the
military was there.

[...]

The military scraped it all up pretty well".

Which would be a different story.


>She said that he dad was not held in Roswell. She said that she
>accompanied him to Roswell on Sunday to alert the Army about the
>debris.

Basically, her recollections of certain events have to be viewed
with some caution?

There's also the point that in the July 1994 USAF report, her
affidavit testifies, "The debris looked like pieces of a large
balloon which had burst...".

Yet, in 'The Roswell Incident', reportedly in response to the
question, "Could the object have been the remains of a weather
balloon?", she stated, "No, it was definitely not a balloon".


Her opinions aside, as an important witness to the debris, the
descriptions she gave when first interviewed, as published in
'The Roswell Incident' and latterly within that affidavit are
relatively consistent.

As you know, she initially noted, 'there was what appeared to be
pieces of heavily waxed paper and a sort of aluminium-like foil".
Also that, "some of the metal-foil pieces had a sort of tape
stuck to them, and when these were held to the light they showed
what looked like pastel flowers or designs".

As this was said before any connection with the Mogul balloon
project, how do we account for her descriptions of tape with
pastel flowers or designs?


>>...often overlooked, is that according to Brazel's son Bill Jnr's
>>recollections in 'The Roswell Incident' [Berlitz and Moore, p85],
>>"when Dad first got into Roswell it was the weather bureau he called
>>first about this stuff he had found".

>Beyond that there has been no claim that Mac tried to interest the
>weather people in it.

That seems to be the case, although the fact that the weather
bureau was apparently uppermost in mind, perhaps evidences his
belief that the debris had a meteorological origin.

However, there's again this conundrum where we have Mac Brazel
subsequently quoted in the Roswell Daily Record, July 9, 1947, as
saying, "I am sure that what I found was not any weather
observation balloon".

So why did he initially contact the weather bureau!?

I guess this is open to conjecture and we'll never know.


>>Isn't this all academic anyway as critical documents obtained under
>>the FOIA confirm, as arguably does the absence of any heightened
>>military alert at the time, that 'Roswell' had no bearing whatsoever
>>on the perceived enigma of what 'flying saucers' truly were?

>There were aricraft on alert all during the July 4 weekend all along
>the west coast.

Is there evidence this was related to events at Roswell?

>Ed Ruppelt, in his book, talked of the Pentagon being in a state of
>near panic in July 1947.

Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of Ruppelt's book. Does he say
why there was a panic at this time?

When was the alert/panic over and what happened to appease the
concerns?


>>It's understood that recently unearthed 'Top Secret' documents,
>>subsequent to 'Roswell', reiterate this.

>What recent documents?

I'll get back to you on this.


>>Is it fair to say that following the exposure of fundamental flaws
>>in previously accepted and crucial witness testimony from such as
>>Gerald Anderson, Jim Ragsdale and Glenn Dennis, that you would now
>>consider Frank Kaufmann as a central 'Roswell' witness?

>No.

Do you currently consider him to be a credible witness?

There were two points about Kaufmann's claimed copy of his
original 'Top Secret' report.

The first was why he had a copy at all, did he routinely make
duplicates of 'secret' documents for his own files?

Secondly, how was he was able to make what seems allegedly to be
an exact copy, complete with letter-heading bearing the name and
address of 'Headquarters, Roswell Army Air Field', a typed
reference [S1CP/JAM/sfm] and partly typed, partly hand-written
date [only the typed '1947' is clear].

Although there were no photocopiers available in 1947 (the
electro-photographic process wasn't publicly demonstrated until
22 October 1948), he could indeed have photographed the
document.

What did he do then though, send the film to Kodak for
processing? ;)


I had mentioned Kaufmann's report previously and remained unsure
if these questions had ever been asked of him and answered.

Also unclear was whether the 'report' had ever been published.
The only time I've seen the document, which seems to consist of
only this one page containing sketches of the 'craft' and
'aliens', is in the UK Channel 4 'Incident at Roswell'
documentary.

What about the possibility of clarifying these issues with Frank
Kaufmann and also querying why, if the copy letter-heading
relates to a document he sent (rather then a letter he might have
received), the reference doesn't contain FK's initials?

'Roswell' is sufficiently complex without being suckered by
arguably obvious dubious claims, which only deflect from the
facts.



James.
E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
WWW: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pulsar/





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                     Satellites To Get Pelted Next Fall

From: jared@valuserve.com (Jared Anderson)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:24:38 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:22:39 -0400
Subject: Satellites To Get Pelted Next Fall

Meteor Storms Threaten Satellites
By Jane E. Allen AP Science Writer
Tuesday, April 28, 1998; 2:51 a.m. EDT

MANHATTAN BEACH, Calif. (AP) -- They're coming.

Like an intergalactic artillery barrage, tiny cosmic particles
are hurtling toward Earth, each packing the punch of a
.22-caliber bullet.

No bigger than grains of sand, the particles -- called meteoroids
-- will burn up in the atmosphere this fall, sparing the planet's
surface and delighting stargazers with the most severe meteor
shower in three decades.

Other observers, however, will do more ouching than oohing and
aahing as the meteoroids zing perilously through 500
communication, navigation and military satellites.

Commercial and military satellite operators, insurers and
scientists began brainstorming Monday about ways to prepare for
November's Leonid meteor storm.

``The consequences are still virtually unknown. There has not
been a meteor storm since the onset of the modern space age.
Nobody planned for it,'' said Peter Brown, a physics and
astronomy graduate student at the University of Western Ontario
who advises satellite operators.

The particles could poke holes in solar panels, pit lenses, blast
reflective coating off mirrors, short out electronics with a
burst of electromagnetic energy, even reprogram computers, said
Edward Tagliaferri, a consultant to the Aerospace Corp., a
nonprofit organization that sponsored the two-day conference.

For example, a meteor struck the European Space Agency's Olympus
satellite in 1993 and destroyed its ability to point at the
Earth. It was useless.

``What if you get unlucky?'' said Delbert Smith, a Washington
lawyer who represents international networks and satellite
operators. ``Who's going to explain to the major corporations
your satellites aren't there anymore?''

Operators could turn off spacecraft or turn them away from the
particle stream. That's what the Hubble Space Telescope will do;
it received minor surface damage in the 1993 shower.

Military satellites are better shielded because most are built to
withstand nuclear assault. But unlike commercial spacecraft that
can be turned off temporarily, military satellites ``can't afford
to be off the air,'' Tagliaferri said.

First reported by Chinese astronomers in 902, the annual Leonid
meteoroid storms -- found in front of the constellation Leo --
intensify every 33 years. They occur when Earth passes through
the dust trail of the comet Tempel-Tuttle.

In 1966, when fewer than 100 satellites circled the Earth, the
comet produced peak showers of 144,000 meteors each hour and no
major damage. This year, with more than five times the number of
circling spacecraft, some experts think the rate could be 5,000
to 100,000 meteors an hour.

Scientists are unsure whether the most intense showers will be
seen this November or in November 1999.

The showers will be visible this year across the Western Pacific
and Eastern Asia; the 1999 showers will be visible in the Middle
East, Eastern Europe and Central Asia. Storms last 90 minutes to
two hours.







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   Apr > Apr 30

                              Re: UFO 'Wobble'

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 09:59:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:20:32 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO 'Wobble'


>Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 04:24:19 -0700
>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFO 'Wobble' [was: UPN's 'Danger in our
Skies'...]

<snip>

>On the other hand, the UFOnauts, far from the stern purview of
>their overseers, may have simply had a few drinks too many.

.....and some people on this list....have been known to wobble
as they walk......





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               Carp Ontario 'Exposed' - The 'Truth' Behind The

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:28:05 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:28:05 -0400
Subject: Carp Ontario 'Exposed' - The 'Truth' Behind The




The following excerpt came into UFO UpDates recently:


>Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 08:57:42 -0400
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>,
>From: xzone@webgate.net (Rob McConnell -
>      The 'X' Zone Radio Show - 1290 CJBK & VCBN)
>Subject: CARP ONTARIO EXPOSED - THE TRUTH BEHIND THE HOAX


>To all members of the UFO community:

>While doing research for the up coming special on CARP ONTARIO -
>THE TRUTH BEHIND THE HOAX, the following is a direct transcrpt
>from a book by J B Michaels, entitled, "UFO ENCOUNTERS.... The
>True Story Behind The Brookhaven and Carp Incidents" which is
>copyright 1995. I find it rather interesting that Tom Theophanis
>is the person in Michaels book who shows him a video tape of a
>downed space craft in Brookhaven, Long Island, with 3 ET
>bodies... and Tom Thenfanous is the co-author with Errol
>Bruce-Knapp of a series of articles in the MUFON Ontario
>Newsletter on the Carp Incident and an investigator for MUFON of
>the Carp, Ontario Crash.

>This book will play a part in our CARP ONTARIO EXPOSED story
>which will be broadcast Sunday, August 2, 1998.

<snip>

Mr. Rob McConnell in his anxiety to make a ufological mark has,
apparently, swallowed the BJ Michaels nonsense-book hook, line
and stinker - in much the same way he bought into the 'Aurora
mid-air re-fueling' hoaxed picture that circulated a year or so
ago.

The problem with the above quoted paragraphs and Michaels' book,
'UFO ENCOUNTERS.... The True Story Behind The Brookhaven and
Carp Incidents' is that there is barely a shred of 'truth'
involved. Not even in the mis-spellings of Tom Theofanous' name.

The reason Mr McConnell recently 'discovered' the book 'UFO
ENCOUNTERS....' is simple - when it first came out, ufologists
everywhere snickered and _ignored_ it. It's unadulterated
garbage.

It's a shame that one of us didn't have a video camera at the
MUFON Ontario Board meeting when Tom read us excerpts from
the book. The roars of laughter would have quite embarrassed
'BJ Michaels' - or perhaps not.

Tom Theofanous and Michaels have _never_ met. Granted, Tom
did spend some time talking to Michaels via the phone, trying
to set him straight on the Carp story - to no avail. Michaels
went ahead and wrote a work of fantasy.

JB Michaels has a most vivid imagination and not much more. No
facts, no real-stories and certainly _no_ 'real-truth'. Had Mr.
McConnell telephoned Tom Theofanous before issuing one of his,
net-wide, press-releases about his upcoming summertime 'Carp
Show', he might have saved himself (and by the way, his Network,
VCBN) a degree of embarrasment.

Gawd, is he going to trot out Bob Oeschler too?

Errol Bruce-Knapp,
MUFON Ontario





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                         Rendlesham Unravelled -NOT

From: georgina@easynet.co.uk [Georgina Bruni]
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:13:26 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:14:36 -0400
Subject: Rendlesham Unravelled -NOT


            HOT GOSSIP UK MAGAZINE - NEWS FLASH

                RENDLESHAM UNRAVELLED - NOT

Ufologists waited in anticipation when armchair researcher, James
Easton announced through the Internet that he was about to
disclose new information that would seriously question the
Rendlesham Forest UFO witness statements.

When his paper, titled "Rendlesham Unravelled" was posted to all
and sundry, it turned out to be "not quite" what some had
expected. Whilst Easton has done a good job in bringing his
findings to the public forum, it is felt that he has not
disclosed the full facts, but instead has drifted into more of a
negative approach.

Using one of the original "Rendlesham" researchers as back up,
namely, Jenny Randles, to verify his case, certainly helped to
promote it, but it hasn't amused Ms Randles.  She quotes:

"My principle concern, whilst I applaud equally James Easton's
attempts to solve this case, is that I feel he has been
misrepresenting me.

This well known incident that allegedly took place during the
last week of December 1980, involving RAF (US) bases, Woodbridge
and Bentwaters, has baffled the media and ufologists for more
than eighteen years. The question is - did US military personnel
stationed at the bases - witness UFO landings in Rendlesham
forest during the last week of December 1980 -or not?
According to a Freedom of Information document "The Halt Memo",
released to American researchers in 1984 - something highly
unusual definitely occurred.

Ufologists are also in possession of an audio recording of one of
the alleged incidents, whereby the (then) Lt Colonel Charles Halt
and several patrolmen were apparently out in the forest chasing
unexplained lights.

Easton seems to have been instrumental in obtaining what he calls
"the unpublished original witness statements" (some unsigned and
undated) written by personnel, Burroughs, Penniston, Cabansag and
others, which apparently proves that what they were really
chasing that night was probably the Orford lighthouse.
Considering that the aforementioned witnesses have claimed that
they saw much more than the said lighthouse - including what
appeared to be an unidentified triangular craft - this was big
news.

Sceptic, Ian Ridpath informs via e-mail:

'James Easton has now found contemporary documents that the airmen
and Charles Halt knew the flashing light they were chasing was
the lighthouse all along....they admit they eventually did manage
to identify the light.'

Ridpath is jumping ahead as usual. Has anyone confirmed this with
the witnesses ?

Says Jenny Randles. "Right from the beginning, Burroughs and
Penniston had always insisted that their statements were not the
full story and were watered down. James Easton's paper does pose
serious questions that have yet to be answered by the principal
witnesses.  There's also the facts about the witness statements
which I explained to him, but that do not appear in his paper.

So why didn't he mention this in his paper?

When I alerted Colonel (Ret) Charles Halt to the fact that Easton
had been provided with these statements, he was most alarmed and
replied.

 "How did he get them, I'm the only one who has those
statements."


So who leaked these statements out? Charles Halt may have the
answer to that because Easton apparently has stated that they
contain Halt's hand written notes. The originals did indeed
contain a hand written note on one of the statements, namely
Cabansag's, in which Halt writes: that he doesn't think that he
(Cabansag) is telling the full story.

Why has Easton failed to mention this vital piece of
information?

Another witness that Easton produces is Chris Arnold who claims
he was the one who made the report to the Suffolk Constabulary.
That may well be genuine. However, Chris Arnold, in letters to
British researchers Crow & Raine, dated July 1997, writes that he
was on duty at the time of one of the incidents, and in fact,
claims that he was involved in what he calls "a non event". He
accuses the witnesses, including Halt, of well and truly
"snookering" everyone. Were it not for the sarcastic nonsensical
writings which clearly prove his dislike for the witnesses in
question, and his complaining about  them making headlines and
money out of the incident - one might pay some attention to
Arnold. But, according to Charles Halt, Arnold is not a credible
witness, and apparently he really disliked Penniston. Halt
confirmed that Arnold was at the Woodbridge base that night, but
insists he was NOT involved in the incident.

Why didn't Easton mention the Arnold letters in his paper?

Strange that such a "non event" would  prompt the Deputy Base
Commander to file a report to the MOD.

Ridpath brought the radiation readings into it.

 'Nick Pope tried to maintain that there was something unusual
about the radiation readings at Rendlesham, despite the fact that
it has been publicly demonstrated to him that they were quite
normal ....The business of the radiation is rather technical, and
has been misunderstood by many people.

 The demonstration that the radiation readings are unremarkable
was given by Frank Close on the "Strange But True"
programme.....'

No offense to Ridpath, but as a researcher myself, I don't pay
too much attention to TV shows on this subject. Give me the
facts please!

I asked Nick Pope for a quote about the readings:

 "With regard to the radiation readings. I agree that the
radiation levels were harmless, and I have never claimed
otherwise. However, the levels recorded were ten times what is
normal for the area, and peaked at the alleged landing site.
Whilst working for Sec (AS) at the Ministry of Defence, I checked
this with the Defence Radiological Protection Service, attached
to Haslar, the Institute of Naval Medicine. This was an official
assessment, and is not in dispute."

It's interesting to note that in the last few months many new
witnesses have come forward, and although it's a long way from
being solved, we now have a better picture of events during that
period. I personally have been quietly researching this case and
have been in contact with several ex personnel from the bases,
and if their stories are true, then we looking at more than the
(Dec 1980) incidents spanning a period of time. Jenny Randles
confirms that she too has received reports of more than the
actual famed incidents.

Another interesting factor is that there appears to have been an
incident occur at RAF Watton at the same time - on December 27
1980. This has been reported to me by an ex-RAF chap stationed
at the base who claims he witnessed the incident.

One thing is certain however, Rendlesham is not yet -unravelled.


Says Jenny Randles:

 "Indeed, in my opinion, this case is far from being dead, and
still poses a number of very important pieces of evidence that
both the sceptics and James Easton have not even addressed.
Unless, and until they can come up with reasonable explanations
for those various significant pieces of hard evidence - it is
premature to conclude, as they seem to be doing, that they have
resolved the case!"

Georgina Bruni
April  30 1998








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                Question About Observed Triangular Shaped UFO

From: "Stefan Duncan" <duncan@tarheel.net>
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 01:53:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:14:46 -0400
Subject: Question About Observed Triangular Shaped UFO


Tuesday night a videotaped what appeared to be a triangular
craft. The craft had a white light at each tip. At the front, it
had a bright white light with a diffused red blinking light. This
craft was going about 30 miles an hour and was soundless. It
suddenly did a slow roll over. The top was now facing the ground
and the craft continued onward in that position for several
minutes. The rear white lights at the tips looked the same as on
either side. It continued that way until it faded from my sight.

If this is a stealth plane, can a pilot fly upside down for
minutes onward?

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Stefan Duncan
Director of XPI
Editor of AUFON
MUFON Section State Dir. of MUFON
614 N. Ellis St.
Salisbury, N.C.
28144
(704)636-9811
http://www.aufon.com







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                        Re: RAF Tracks 24,000MPH UFO

From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:40:43 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:26:57 -0400
Subject: Re: RAF Tracks 24,000MPH UFO

Dear Colleagues,

Further to my posting on Monday, 27 April, concerning Britsh
press reports that the RAF had tracked a "battleship"-sized UFO.

You will recall that Alan Patterson, RAF Press Officer, rejected
all references to what he described as "the UFO angle" reported
by the media.

He further claimed that the source of this story was a former MoD
civilian employee named Philip Burden - someone who left their
employment "under a cloud".

I have since spoken with one of the journalists concerned, who
stands by the story.

Speaking off the record (his name and newspaper are known to a
clutch of researchers, including  Nick Redfern, Nick Pope and
Timothy Good), he told me that the original source of this story
was a senior serving RAF official, and not Mr. Burden.

However, journalist David Clark (who was an active UFO researcher
before joining the Sheffield Star newspaper), has spoken with
'The Express' newspaper journalist John Ingham, who also covered
the story. Mr. Ingham has told David Clark that yes, Philip
Burden was his primary source.

Interestingly, Nick Pope highlighted an article that appeared in
the 'Daily Mail' newspaper on 24 April 1996. This included a
statement issued by the MoD, and published in RAF News, denying
claims made two weeks previously in a BBC 2 television programme,
that a "battleship"-sized UFO had been tracked at 4,000mph over
the North Sea.

Nick Pope wondered if there were a possible connection: namely
that the source quoted in the programme, featuring well-known UFO
researcher and author Jenny Randles, was one and the same.

Two crucial findings have since emerged:

1) Jenny Randles has said that the 'source' in the 1996 programme
was Ralph Noyes, himself a former head of the MoDs UFO desk, then
known as DS8. He was referring to an entirely separate incident.

2) Philip Burden, it transpires, was the former editor of "RAF
NEWS".

The latter revelation is particularly intriguing, not least
because I am reliably informed that since leaving RAF News,
Philip Burden has provided the media with several stories,
originating from his time spent while editor of that publication,
and for which he was paid.

One of these referred to an alleged UFO incident over Thailand,
and took place during an official State Visit by the Queen.

Allegedly, the RAF aerobatic team (Red Arrows) had to cut short a
flying display when the UFO appeared.

We are, as you can well imagine, attempting to clarify several
important matters arising from these developments.

Suffice to say, at least one senior newspaper correspondent is
standing by the story as it appeared last Monday.

The only concession he is prepared to make, is that the estimated
speed of the UFO in question might now be in doubt, but he failed
to expand on his reasoning.

As for the "battleship"-sized UFO, the 12 oval-shaped objects and
radar tapes thereof?

He maintains such references were accurately reported, but
expressed sympathy towards Alan Patterson's position, who, he
stressed, had no option other than to state official MoD policy
on the UFO issue.

It's been a hectic week thus far and late in the evening, but
hopefully these comments will help to shed light on matters.

Finally, for anyone thinking of attending the Space Symposium at
RAF Cranwell (4-5 June), admission doesn't come cheap.

Tickets are priced at =A3220.00 (two hundred & twenty pounds), and
I'm not certain whether that's for one or both days.

Last but not least, our journalist friend suspects that the radar
tapes, and all reference to them, "will be pulled" from the
dozen-or-so sessions schedule to take place.

Best regards,


Graham W. Birdsall (Editor)

UFO Magazine [UK]






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                    Temporal Doorway UFO Material for May

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:14:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:41:16 -0400
Subject: Temporal Doorway UFO Material for May


A comprehensive presentation of the most important events of the
Belgian wave of 1989-1990 are now available on the Temporal
Doorway's UFO section.

These include documentation of the first police sightings at
Eupen, the multiple radar sighting at Wavre (with a performance
graph showing the behavior of the object with regard to speed,
altitude and heading as recorded by the on-board radar of an
intercepting F-16 - includes a 22G acceleration, and a 1000 fps
dive to ground level), and the famous Petit-Rochain photo (nods
to Jean-Pierre Pharabod, who clarified the circumstances of the
photo) - several images, including closeups of the unusual
luminous structures, are included.

The radar performance graph is particularly interesting, since
the speed changes seem to be consistent with altitude changes,
and the object is clearly overpowered, since it slows not at all
during a very fast steep climb with a turn. This profile seems to
be very hard to reconcile with radar / weather interactions such
as the so-called "angels".

These sightings can be reached from the chronological catalog at

        http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman/ufochron.htm

or directly at

        http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman/ufo/report/1989belg.htm

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront/
------





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                              Re: UFO 'Wobble'

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:35:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:39:45 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO 'Wobble'

> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 09:59:49 -0400
> From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO 'Wobble'
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> >Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 04:24:19 -0700
> >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFO 'Wobble' [was: UPN's 'Danger in our
> Skies'...]

> <snip>

> >On the other hand, the UFOnauts, far from the stern purview of
> >their overseers, may have simply had a few drinks too many.

> .....and some people on this list....have been known to wobble
> as they walk......


I think Stanton Friedman has a very solemn and distinguished waddle.

['Wobble', Al. 'Wobble' -- ebk]

Lehmberg@snowhill.com
--
Explore the Alien View?

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake.








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                               BUFORA WATCH 2

From: ej77@dial.pipex.com (Mike Wootten)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:58:34 GMT
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:31:53 -0400
Subject: BUFORA WATCH 2

BUFORA watchers who are familiar with the on-going story of the
Max Burns/Miles Johnstone South Yorkshire 'UFO Crash'
interpretation may be interested to learn of BUFORA's latest
gaff.

It has been rumoured for a while that at the May 2nd BUFORA
London meeting 'something' was going to happen regarding this
case.

That 'something ' appears to be a video presentation by Miles
Johnstone followed by Max Burns speaking about the event and
giving his own, peculiar perspective.

This would be fine and is in some ways an admirable move by
BUFORA to make the public aware of the case.

But BUFORA have for some time now been aware of the other side of
the coin - the in-depth research done into the case by their
Press Officer,professional journalist, Dave Clarke.

Clarke's research has been on various places on the Internet and
*conclusively* proves that the incident was caused by military
jets illegally breaking the sound barrier, amongst other things.

There was no UFO, no crash, no aliens. There was a cover up by
the military but this was of their own incompetence and error.

BUFORA, in their infinite wisdom, have chosen to play this aspect
of the case down and instead are giving a platform to a
non-member who openly states that the case is extraterrestrial in
nature. Despite the fact there is *no* evidence to support this
claim.

BUFORA have been requested to take a long, hard look at what they
are doing in this instance. Their response? Press Officer Dave
Clarke was told by Chairman Steve Gamble that they were going to
give Max the chance to air these unsubstantiated views in the
hope that he will 'go away'.

BUFORA *should* have invited Dave Clarke to give his viewpoint
and evidence in open debate with Max Burns, and let the audience
decide. Instead they will be treated to an uncritical video made
by Miles Johnstone, who freely admits intradimensionals sit on
his knee (!) followed by an unsubstantiated rant by Max Burns.

If Saturday's charade goes ahead BUFORA are going to be a
laughing stock yet again. There are to be several journalists
from national titles in the audience.

They are there because they are interested in Max Burns and his
chequered history. When presented with the sight of BUFORA,
supposedly the UK's foremost UFO research organisation, espousing
uncritcal thinking of this nature, we can only wonder at what
they will print.

If you are a BUFORA member, of concerned about serious UFO
research in the UK we urge you to contact a BUFORA official and
voice your concerns about this matter. We suggest the following:

Steve Gamble (Chairman) el82@dial.pipex.com
Gloria Dixon (Director of Investigations) rbx32@dial.pipex.com

BUFORA WATCH






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                           Filer's Files #17-1998

From: Majorstar <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:15:04 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:22:30 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #17-1998

Filer's Files #17-1998  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer:  MUFON Eastern Director,
April  30, 1998  Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020

PRESIDENT GERALD FORD'S GREATEST HOUR:

On March 25, 1966, House Minority Leader Gerald R. Ford R- Michigan proposed
that Congress investigate the rash of reported sightings of identified objects
in Southern Michigan and other parts of the country.  Ford said he believed,
"A congressional inquiry would be worth while because the American people are
becoming alarmed by the UFO stories."

I had always liked President Ford, because I believe he had the public
interest at heart.  He was one of the few congressmen, who was concerned about
the Unidentified Flying Objects in our skies.  I ask is there any congressman
with the courage of former President Ford who will again ask for an UFO
inquiry?  There are very few if any congressmen willing to put his career,
prestige, and reputation on the line.

If we do get an opportunity, there are astronauts, military personnel, and
scientists standing ready to testify.  I feel we have enough data to convince
congress in a fair hearing.  Leaders in the UFO community have often felt, if
they could just have enough influence they could get the right answers.  We
know that President Ford, Carter and Clinton have all attempted to obtain the
answer from government sources regarding UFOs.

I recently asked President Ford about the existence of UFOs.  He wrote me a
friendly letter telling of his 25 and half years in the House -- never in the
Senate.  His letter stated in part, "During my public career in Congress, as
Vice President and President, I made various requests for any information on
UFOs.  The official authorities always denied the UFO allegations.  As a
result I have no information that may be helpful to you."

If Congress, like the president uses its normal sources of intelligence such
as CIA, DIA, NSA, NASA they will likely get the same answer as our presidents
claim they were given.  Essentially, our government intelligence agencies are
not aware or responsive to UFO reports and a possible alien threat.  We have a
choice to assume they are incompetent, unaware or lying.  I hope some where in
government there is someone correlating the data.  One logical reason to
ignore the thousands of UFO reports is that they think they know what is
flying.  The CIA recently claimed that most UFOs were misidentified U-2s.  The
long wing span of the U-2 makes this a poor candidate to be mistaken for a
disc aircraft.  However, the disc shaped Silverbug project recently released
could easily be identified as a classic UFO.  The Air Force asked a number of
key scientists for the explanation of UFOs.  The scientists always told them
it was a case of simple misidentification.  These UFOs in our skies either
belong to our government or to someone else.  They are a safety hazard and a
possible threat.

I was part of the group of military witnesses during Dr. Greer's attempts to
get Congressional Hearings last year.  I spoke immediately after Edgar's
Mitchell's introduction to the media and various staff members of Congress.
Edgar later indicated, "In our briefing of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Intelligence Group, it became very clear to us that they were naive.  They did
not really know any more about this effort than we do, if as much."

In my own personal efforts to reach Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff,
General Shalikashvili, he and his aid both indicated the same lack of
knowledge about UFOs.  I wrote and asked that he debate me on national
television.  He kindly refused before leaving office.  Now certainly all these
fine people could be stone walling us, but it seems more likely they are
unaware and do not take UFOs seriously, because there are Black budget
programs that fit the descriptions of UFOs.  This could be a clever way of
ignoring our inquires, but it could be that most of the important people in
government now are just not aware of real UFOs.

Somewhere there must be knowledgeable people in government.  If they do not
exist in government any more, I suggest they hire some of the old retired guys
to show them where we hid the secrets.  The secret has been denied, obscured
and joked about for so long it's become a taboo subject.  This means we have a
major public relations problem.  We need help in convincing leaders of
government there is a possible threat and that it should be examined.

The late Representative Steven Schiff asked for an explanation for the Roswell
crash.  There was a governor of Georgia, named Carter who said, "I saw a UFO,
and if you elect me president I'll find out what they are!"  Well, we elected
him president and he never told us.  Governor Reagan saw a UFO and said we
might have to fight aliens.  In 1966, Representative Gerald Ford made national
headlines and later became President by asking about UFOs.  Let us hope there
is one person in congress with the courage of former President Gerald Ford.
Perhaps he might even become president!

NEW JERSEY

I have a report of a woman and her son have observed UFOs in a field near
their home in the Mullica Hill area.  They have been seeing UFOs in this field
on a fairly regular basis.  The mother is concerned because she has discovered
circular round holes in her body.  The scar is size of a dime.  The holes are
very similar and they have occurred over a period of may years.  The first
occurred in her arm, then her back and recently in her stomach.  She visited
her medical doctor to determine the cause of the holes or scoop marks.  The
Doctor is stumped by what could have caused the unusual wounds.  She was
asleep in bed each time the holes occurred, but she has no memory of anything
unusual.  There is nothing in the bed that would cause this kind of marks and
there were no holes in her nightgown.  All holes are on the left side of her
body.  The other members of the family do not have similar marks.

FREDERICKSBURG, VIRGINIA

Ricardo Atristain, the MUFON State director for Virginia, reports: "Hello, I
went to Fredericksburg today and spoke to Kate Bailey of the Free Lance Star
newspaper.  She said, she received numerous calls in response the sighting she
published on 4/7/98.  Four of the witnesses were Fredericksburg police
officers.  She threw most of the caller information away but was able to refer
me to one person.  His name is Robert Tolen and he granted us permission to
use his name.  I interviewed Mr. Tolen at his home in Spotsylvania, County.
He gave the following account: At approximately 6:42 PM on April 3, 1998, he
was in downtown Fredericksburg talking on a pay phone when the incident
occurred.  While on the phone, he noticed a bright green glow in the southern
sky.  He looked up and observed an egg shaped object with blue, green, and
yellow flames shooting out of it's rear.  He said it was solid and it's
surface color was medium to dark Grey, similar to "Grey primer paint."  It's
surface did not reflect any light and there was no sound or visible vapor
trail associated with the object.  He estimated it's altitude to be between
900 to 1000 feet.  The object was extremely fast and flew directly over him
from south to north within four to five seconds.  This object's description is
not consistent with a meteor.  Mr. Tolen said he also received a call from a
local woman who reported seeing a similar object fly over her house about a
week prior to his sighting.  Also, he spoke with two other people from the
Shannon Airport who witnessed a similar object on 4/3.  I haven't completed
the investigation yet, but I will keep you informed. I still have to interview
the police officers, the woman, and the two people at the airport.   Note: Ms.
Bailey said she did receive a call from a person who observed a similar object
while he was in Raleigh, NC on April 3. Unfortunately, she threw his
information away.  Regards, Rick

GEORGIA

MUFON investigator John Thompson states: "I received a report of a saucer-
shaped UFO hovering over a clover field near a stock pond near Stovall in
southeastern Troup County.  The UFO was seen by a passing motorist 400 yards
from Wright Road on Monday, March 30, 1998.  The witness stated, 'It was a
round thing that had lights going round and round.'  The motorist only saw it
for a few seconds, before woods screened her view at 8:30 PM.  Even though it
took less than a minute to turn the car around the UFO was gone.  The motorist
then circled the area in her care trying to find the craft.  It was just after
dusk so there was enough light to see there was no farm machinery or other
structures in the fields.  This is the same exact spot where a daylight Valley
type UFO was seen by a man and his son in April of 1996.

On April 1, 1998, at 7:10 PM a UFO described as looking like a huge flying
dinner plate was reported ten miles north of LaGrange.  A landowner about an
hour later, several members of the family saw a bright white light in the NNE.
This large non-blinking light, sat low on the horizon for several minutes.
Getting a pair of binoculars the woman watched the bright stationary light,
that was the size of Venus, for over a minute.  While watching with binoculars
it suddenly "zipped" to the east.  Also on April 1, at 8:20 PM, John Thompson
took a call from a retired dentist in western Troup County, who said that for
several minutes he observed a large stationary white light.  Suddenly this
light moved away rapidly to the NE and "flared up."  The Dentist asked John to
go outside and observe the light, but John was unable to detect it.  A few
hours later Wednesday night, a cigar or disc-shaped UFO was reported at 10:30
PM by two women, twelve miles to the northwest.  The Stoval witness recounted
two UFO LaGrange incidents in1963. A huge football field size UFO with
flashing lights, hovered over the railroad crossing at Greenville Street east
of LaGrange.  These latest sightings show that UFOs were observed in the
LaGrange area by unrelated witnesses on March 30&31 and April 1.  Thanks to
John Thompson.

 GEORGIA

Former Georgia State Director, John Thompson writes that many different
witnesses from Korea to Georgia are reporting UFOs operate with repeatable and
distinctive flashes.  John writes, "In the Korean case that Chief Sheets
investigated, American soldiers saw the flash or 'powering-up' of the UFO just
before it vanishing.  I am convinced that the luminous lens-shaped UFOs are
the real McCoy.  The distinctive "flash," the high speed departure, and
sometimes their incredible size rules anything else out.  This is the real
baby.  Chris Early, a physicist and former MUFON Georgia Director's
experiments and those of the late Paul Hill's from NASA has centered on a disc
shaped object that ionizes the atmosphere around it.  This flash seen just
prior to acceleration definitely has something to due with this process.  The
craft looks "energized," with the resultant plasma that envelopes around it.
There are other real extraterrestrial UFOs, but I have not seen them
personally.  I have to see it to believe it.  Chris believes that certain
people are picked to see UFOs.  I reject this argument completely.  We have a
mutual friend in New Hampshire whose entire family see UFOs.  It's not by
coincidence they live in an isolated region.  I also believe that hilly areas
-- but not too hilly -- along with a sparse population base and scanty radar
coverage are where real UFOs are seen.  Here's another consideration: Take a
look of a satellite photo of Georgia on a USGS site, and you can clearly see a
fault or Fall line, just below LaGrange.  It is very noticeable when coming in
from space.  It looks like a long straight scar going from the SW to NE across
Georgia.  The Fall Line separates the North American tectonic plate from the
old African plate.  This portion below the Fall Line was torn off from the
African plate when the continents, which were once butted up against each
other millions of years ago, drifted apart.

Regarding whether all UFOs could just be "earth lights," I reject this.
Sunday night starting at 10 PM to about 4 AM on Monday are the best times to
see a UFO.  Activity is also good through Thursday, but then quickly drops off
to almost zero by Saturday night; that's why most skywatches see nothing!  The
aliens have the patterns of folks down pat.  Secrecy is the main part of their
agenda and they don't move much when folks are out late Friday and Saturday
nights.  If the sightings were random--as earth lights would be -- then we
could say possibly no intelligence is involved.  But sightings are far from
random!  Indeed I can think of only one investigation out of more than 100
that I have done, where something truly UFO like was seen on a Saturday night.
Early Sunday morning picks up some, then slacks off until after 9 PM.  If
anybody sees a real UFO during a skywatch on weekend,  it will definitely come
after 1 AM Sunday, and probably between 3 and 5 in the morning if the aliens
cooperate.  Will anybody be up that late?  Thanks to John Thompson ISUR/MUFON.

NEW MEXICO:

Skywatch Reports at 10:30 AM on April 22, 1998, my brother was traveling east
on Route 10 in southern New Mexico west of Las Cruces, near the border of Ulna
and Dona Ana counties.  He saw several cars parked on the side of the road
with the occupants outside looking up in the air.  He glanced over where they
were looking and saw a stationary white object.  He stopped also, got out and
began to observe the object with the others.  He said that it was a typical
"saucer shape" tilted upward at about 10 to 30 degrees from vertical.  It was
about the thickness of a pencil held at arm's length and at about a 60 degree
angle from the horizon.  He judged it to be about several miles away and a few
thousand feet up, south towards the Mexican border.  He and the others
observed it motionless in the sky for about 10 minutes.  It then began to
level out to a horizontal position after which it slowly started to move to
the south.  In a few minutes it was gone from view.  My brother is an "open
minded skeptic" and since it was too far away to see any identifiable features
and did not perform any erratic or unconventional maneuvers he is not saying
for sure that he observed a "flying saucer."  However, it was nothing like he
had ever seen before and did not look like it "belonged there."  Thanks to
Skywatch International Inc.

SIGHTINGS IN QUEENSLAND, AUSTRALIA

Greetings from Brisbane Australia, I am the Director for MUFON QED and
appointed the Continental Director for Australia and New Zealand.  I am happy
to share information from down-under.  I received a call from a retired
airforce Captain, who also worked on Radar for many years.  The gentleman was
walking his dog on April 22, at 6:40 PM accompanied by his grandson when a
huge light appeared in the north flying at phenomenal speed.  When it passed
over head he claimed the light from underneath lit up the surrounding area and
would have been about 20 feet across.  It crossed the path of an airliner
coming into the Maroochydore Airport.  As it passed over the Glass House
Mountains it then became a ball of light emitting red, green and blue lights.
It seems to have left a long white trail behind it.  This person reports that
it was a clear night with no clouds in the sky.  We have three more reports.
One from Hervey Bay, where five people witnessed a huge light traveling at
amazing speed, which seemed to change direction.  Two other reports came in
from Bribie Island when the same description was given as the Gentleman from
Beerwah. Thanks to Glennys Mackay MUFON Australia and QUFON, Queensland UFO
Network, glenmack@thehub.com.au

MJ-12

Bob Collins writes, "A lot of these statements I find about Mj-12 are without
grounds from everything I've picked up over the years: One little thing about
this group that I heard from Intelligence sources is that they use to hold
their meetings airborne for security reasons.  Mj-12 was hyper about leaks.
It's only because of Reagan and his perception of an "Alien" threat that
things started to loosen up.  After Reagan left the security lid came right
back down.  I'll vouch for the Republican's pushing for this except for
Eisenhower.  Nixon and Reagan were both the big "go getters" so to speak in
trying to get this out to the public.  But, politics gets in the way.  Regards
Robert Collins ttp://209.3.33.6/researchers/rmc_sanctuary_ot_birds.htm

CALIFORNIA:

Bob Wilson reports in the Antelope Valley Press Staff Writer on April 25,
1998.  ROSALIND  Authorities say nothing was there, but about a dozen people
who called the Valley Press Thursday night claimed something was.  That
something was described as a large craft lingering above the Albertson's
grocery store at about 9:15 p.m.  It made no noise, but its lights caused
motorists to park and gawk, and some to call the newspaper.  On Friday, Kern
County deputies at the Rosamond sheriff's station, about a mile from the
grocery store, said they had no reports of such sightings. Air Force Plant 42
spokeswoman Lorraine Sadler said she, too, had no information on the event.
"And we have some military people that live in Rosamond, too," Sadler said.
Edwards Air Force Base public information officer Gary Hatch said base
operations reported no flights scheduled in that area at that time of night.
The base's command post also had taken no reports of any craft, either known
or unknown, in the area, Hatch said.  Calls about the object began flowing to
the Valley Press shortly after 9:00 p.m., copy chief Jana Treece said.  "After
the first couple of calls, we all said, `Yeah, OK, sure' " Treece said. "But
between about 9:15 and 11 p.m., we received a dozen calls from people who were
either on their way to the Albatross's to do some shopping or who were eating
at the nearby Taco Bell.  "For the most part, everyone gave the same
description," Treece said.  That description was of a large object, not quite
octagonal in shape, between 100 yards and 200 yards in length, with orange and
yellow lights around its bottom surface.  "One of the callers said cars were
pulling off to the side of the road to check the object out," Treece said.
Suggestions that the object was a helicopter blurred by windy, hazy weather
conditions were discounted by those calling, she said.  "Everyone said it was
not a helicopter because there was no noise associated with it," Treece said.
Of those who called, "I couldn't get anybody to leave a name," she said.
While she and her coworkers occasionally field similar types of calls, "we
don't get so many all on the same night and all calling about the same thing,"
she said.  Hatch surmised the object could have been a helicopter with a
lighted billboard attached to the bottom, akin to the ones that occasionally
buzz the games of the Lancaster JetHawks baseball team.  If the object really
was 200 yards in length, "It would have been bigger than the Albertson's
store," he said.  Although the JetHawks were on the field Thursday evening,
the field they were playing on was in Visalia

Mitch Barker, public affairs specialist for the Federal Aviation
Administration, also reported no information on the object.  "We checked with
our air-traffic control facilities, and there was nothing logged during that
shift, so I don't know what to tell you," Barker said.  However, it's possible
that something in the sky over Rosamond might have been missed.  "A lot of
people think we have surveillance of the skies taking place at all times, but
that's not true," Barker said.  "Our people are looking at where the airplanes
are actually flying and concentrating on keeping them apart."  Thanks to
Skywatch, Bill Hamilton and Jim Hickman jhickman@itlnet.

THUNDERDART HYPERSONIC SPACECRAFT

Michigan Director Skywatch International Doug Parrish states:
"On very good authority I have been told in the last year from someone who
knows, but obviously must remain unidentified, that the United States Air
Force currently has in its hangers an aircraft that are capable of Mach 50.
That's 50 times the speed of sound.  If we regard the speed of sound as
somewhere around 770 mph, then Mach 50 becomes 38,500 mph.  That's three times
around the world in two hours.  As far as I know, this is an intra-atmospheric
aircraft that takes off from a large base in the Far West.  Has anyone ever
heard of the name "Thunderdart"?  Doug Parrish <dparrish@ismi.net>.
Editors Note: Your story of a Mach 50 aircraft confirms similar stories I have
heard.  Mach 50 seems almost too fast and represents a major leap in speed.
The Carter administration canceled the SSTs, however many believe Reagan
started this program as a military space plane.  The original plans called for
the development of a narrow "v" shaped craft.  It is logical to assume the
Lockheed Skunkworks developed a follow on aircraft to the SR-71 and its 43
foot long piggy back carried D-21 ramjet Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV).  In
1965, using the engine of a Bomarc missile the D-21 could launch from the
SR-71 accelerate to Mach 3.3 and penetrate deep into enemy airspace.  A
similar piggyback idea for the Aurora is called Thunderdart.  I would think
after thirty-three years we would have a very advanced hypersonic craft
darting into space.

Please send your letters and reports to George Filer at Majorstar@aol.com.





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   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 30

              Re: Question About Observed Triangular Shaped UFO

From: "Donnie W. Shevlin" <dshevlin@primary.net>
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:23:32 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:57:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Question About Observed Triangular Shaped UFO


> From: "Stefan Duncan" <duncan@tarheel.net>
> To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Question about observed triangular shaped UFO Tuesday night
> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 01:53:53 -0400

> Tuesday night a videotaped what appeared to be a triangular
> craft. The craft had a white light at each tip. At the front, it
> had a bright white light with a diffused red blinking light. This
> craft was going about 30 miles an hour and was soundless. It
> suddenly did a slow roll over. The top was now facing the ground
> and the craft continued onward in that position for several
> minutes. The rear white lights at the tips looked the same as on
> either side. It continued that way until it faded from my sight.

> If this is a stealth plane, can a pilot fly upside down for
> minutes onward?

Hello Stefan, EBK and all,

Gee, good question. I know from some experience that even light aircraft
need about 80knots to maintain level flight. A jet/fighter type would
have to maintain an airspeed higher than that to keep the aircraft's
weight in the air. Now, don't quote me on this, but I would see it very
unlikely that any powered modern day aircraft could fly that slowly "30
miles an hour" and roll 180 degrees and still maintain flight.

Any takers?

Please direct any questions or comments to updates@globalserve.net.

Donnie Shevlin





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   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Apr > Apr 30

                       Re: Carp Ontario 'Exposed'.....

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:40:08 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:09:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Carp Ontario 'Exposed'.....

At 03:28 PM 4/30/98 -0400, you UpDates wrote:

>The following excerpt came into UFO UpDates recently:


>>Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 08:57:42 -0400
>>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>,
>>From: xzone@webgate.net (Rob McConnell -
>>      The 'X' Zone Radio Show - 1290 CJBK & VCBN)
>>Subject: CARP ONTARIO EXPOSED - THE TRUTH BEHIND THE HOAX


>>To all members of the UFO community:

>>While doing research for the up coming special on CARP ONTARIO -
>>THE TRUTH BEHIND THE HOAX, the following is a direct transcrpt
>>from a book by J B Michaels, entitled, "UFO ENCOUNTERS.... The
>>True Story Behind The Brookhaven and Carp Incidents" which is
>>copyright 1995. I find it rather interesting that Tom Theophanis
>>is the person in Michaels book who shows him a video tape of a
>>downed space craft in Brookhaven, Long Island, with 3 ET
>>bodies... and Tom Thenfanous is the co-author with Errol
>>Bruce-Knapp of a series of articles in the MUFON Ontario
>>Newsletter on the Carp Incident and an investigator for MUFON of
>>the Carp, Ontario Crash.

>>This book will play a part in our CARP ONTARIO EXPOSED story
>>which will be broadcast Sunday, August 2, 1998.

><snip>

>Mr. Rob McConnell in his anxiety to make a ufological mark has,
>apparently, swallowed the BJ Michaels nonsense-book hook, line
>and stinker - in much the same way he bought into the 'Aurora
>mid-air re-fueling' hoaxed picture that circulated a year or so
>ago.

>The problem with the above quoted paragraphs and Michaels' book,
>'UFO ENCOUNTERS.... The True Story Behind The Brookhaven and
>Carp Incidents' is that there is barely a shred of 'truth'
>involved. Not even in the mis-spellings of Tom Theofanous' name.

>The reason Mr McConnell recently 'discovered' the book 'UFO
>ENCOUNTERS....' is simple - when it first came out, ufologists
>everywhere snickered and _ignored_ it. It's unadulterated
>garbage.

>It's a shame that one of us didn't have a video camera at the
>MUFON Ontario Board meeting when Tom read us excerpts from
>the book. The roars of laughter would have quite embarrassed
>'BJ Michaels' - or perhaps not.

>Tom Theofanous and Michaels have _never_ met. Granted, Tom
>did spend some time talking to Michaels via the phone, trying
>to set him straight on the Carp story - to no avail. Michaels
>went ahead and wrote a work of fantasy.

>JB Michaels has a most vivid imagination and not much more. No
>facts, no real-stories and certainly _no_ 'real-truth'. Had Mr.
>McConnell telephoned Tom Theofanous before issuing one of his,
>net-wide, press-releases about his upcoming summertime 'Carp
>Show', he might have saved himself (and by the way, his Network,
>VCBN) a degree of embarrasment.

>Gawd, is he going to trot out Bob Oeschler too?

>Errol Bruce-Knapp,
>MUFON Ontario

Ha, ha, ha....boy oh boy, Errol...Isn't it amazing how people are
so eager to believe something they will go to any lengths to
accept it?  Ha, ha, ah...

Please forgive me for not deleting the biggest part of the above
message.  But, I just couldn't...Not only is the book Not
factual, it is 90+ percent fiction.

How do I know?  I'm the main provider of much information which
J.B. Michaels put into that book.  Of course, I did not present
him with the information which he credits to Mona Rowe.

J.B. represents or should I say misrepresents me in the book, as
a "Truck Driver" who happened to be on Long Island at the time
Brook Haven Labs purportedly brought down the craft with a
particle beam!  I supposedly videotaped the whole thing along
with three young teen witnesses.  You will find this on page 11,
which is in chapter two...It is total fabrication! It did not
happen!!!!

I am mentioned on the following pages: 87, 88;  149 - 150, where
in it says I drink a beer.  Let me state that I am a teetotaler.
Sorry about that folks, but that's just me. <g>

Pages 167 - 173.  This is an accurate portrayal of me, and the
"fictional MAN ON THE STREET INTERVIEW" which I wrote and allowed
J.B. to use.  I hope you find it entertaining. <G> Page 234 where
he gives a short bibliography of both Tom Theofanous and
myself...this description of me is accurate.

Finally, on page 242, he listed my BBS, Space_Link and the phone
number. The BBS is still there, but the mail echoes are no longer
functioning. There are about 3000 UFO and Paranormal files
available, however.

So, Errol.  Thank you for posting your rebuttal, and also for
giving me an opportunity to help set the record straight.

If anyone has any particular questions, feel free to address them
to me and I will answer them.

Before closing, I wish to quote from the Prologue of the book:

"What you are about to read in UFO Encounters is based on facts.
It includes not only documented accounts of the crash and the
recovery of an alien spacecraft, but of several extraterrestrials
as well.  IT IS NOT FICTIONALIZED. (Emphesis Mine - M.C.) IT IS
NOT DRAMATIZED. These are the facts taken from first hand
accounts of individuals present at two events WHERE ANCIENT
SPACECRAFT NOT ONLY LANDED, BUT WERE FILMED ON VIDEOTAPE."

Again, let me state emphatically, that I did not video tape any
such thing.  It is purely a product of the author's imagination.

REgards, Mike

 The fastest way to respond to this message is through the ICQ Network. A
message   sent  this way will go directly to my screen.
 If you have ICQ you can message me at ICQ#:7508455.
 If you don't have ICQ you can page me through:  My Personal Communication
Center:   http://wwp.mirabilis.com/7508455 (go there and try it!)
 Or you can send me a regular e-mail to my EmailExpress address:
7508455@pager.mirabilis.com.
 Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
 Include your ICQ details in YOUR e-mail signature:
http://www.icq.com/emailsig.html.
 My BBS Telephone Number is: (502) 683-3026
 My Fax Number is: (502) 686-7394
 My Home Telephone Number is: (502) 683-6811
 Michael Christol ----------------------------------------------------






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   Apr > Apr 30

              A New Study (Follow Up to The Brookings Institute

From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org>
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:15:53 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:55:33 -0400
Subject: A New Study (Follow Up to The Brookings Institute

A New Study: a Follow Up to the Brookings Institution Study
By Francisco Lopez, UFOR Editor

Sources of our my personal entire confidence I can not name here
as it can endanger them, informed us that there is an ongoing
multicountry study on the UFO phenomenon situation from a mainly
social perspective.

According to the source, who did work helping an investigation by
a known and serious UFO researcher (the reason I cannot divulge
the names of the source nor the researcher), scientists (natural
and social) and other individuals are in engagements paid by the
US Government to monitor and get a state of the UFOlogy. The
study, according to the source, is allegedly being conducted
through the Smithsonian Organization.

The study is across the board and is gathering data from the
whole spectrum of adepts, enthusiasts and researchers from
practically around the world.

Some of the scientists had been shown things that changed their
perspective of life and, in almost all cases, greatly disturbed
them emotionally and basically destroyed their personal body of
beliefs and changed their axiology (philosophy of values).
According to the source, they had been shown, from ships to
corpses of aliens.

One of the means used are the collaboration of scientists with
noted researchers, then the association of scientists to UFO
rogue groups, bands of non believable people, people with
psychotic inclinations, conspiracy buffs, cults, fringe
movements, philosophical movements, political groups and others.


Some scientists are used as apparent disinformation agents with
the object of seeding groups (virtual and real) with bits of
information and see the effect on the psychology of these groups.


Others help groups and do undercover intelligence work reported
to the agencies participanting in the study.

The study has been extended well into third world countries to
check the potential for political and social unrest if UFO
information is openly and officially released to the community.

The apparition of rogue UFO groups in several third world
countries (i.e.
and according to the source, the apparition of UFO, NOVA [both
groups paramilitary and armed] and a Catholic UFO Cult presided
by an alleged priest [later identified as a CIA political
assassination operative in Central America, and now working in
South America] and the Radar cult in Argentina [their bunker had
very sophisticated equipment and warfare, including land to air
missiles]) and mixed of right wing extremists, political
activist, cultist beliefs, new age and philosophical systems with
mind control, militia types and other things with UFOs have all
the ingredients of the way this monitoring and controlling is put
under the same umbrella.

There are some indications (although speculative at this point)
that a focus group was tested during a UFO congress in which an
alleged CIA agent meet privately with a small group of UFO
researchers told them that the government will be disclosing UFO
information, although not via the official channels and without
admitting the reality at this time.

Because of the policy creation division among those against and
in pro of informing the public in the governments, there is a
hybrid intelligence product which result is in a broad study
capable of supporting the creation of policy regarding the
disclosure of information on the UFO phenomenon and its
treatment, and, in the other side, the gathering of intelligence
to maintain under control the UFOlogists (and, as far as
possible, the mainstream scientists). This is not new, however,
the update in intelligence data is giving the UFO information
repression apparatus, the tools of doing their job.

In UFO hot spots, where politically sensitive information can be
gathered by a good researcher with an extensive network of
contacts, the effort of ridicule, down play, discredit, alienate
and isolate has been substituted by a theatrical approach in
which a division is pretended among the rogue groups to try to
capture the serious UFOlogist, get his information and destroy
him or her (in some cases by assassination, accidents or sickness
and in others by pure moral discredit or fabrication of criminal
cases).

This study is broader than the Brookings Institute study in the
60's. It study the effect of a bigger group of institutions.

The study seems to be also an attempt to put under control the
factions exogenous to the UFO phenomenon that has been seeded
during the past decades inside the UFO research and enthusiast
community for control and monitoring purposes. As the UFO matter
becomes more closer to be part of the mainstream (and this beyond
the folklore), the foreign element can exhibit the same tendency,
therefore, mainstreaming politically undesirable situations that
has nothing to do with UFOs.

Although this type of social engineering can produce an orderly
transition to a new state of knowledge, the by product,
information that can feed of intelligence the repression
apparatus that currently impedes the disclosure of the truth
regarding UFOs, can result in very difficult times for those
doing politically sensitive UFO research.

We have to take into account that, as long as no policy results
from this study, the status quo will be enforced by those in
charge of executing and enforcing policy. We already have a good
sense about what the policy is.

Prudence and caution is indicated. We all know that there are
things that are real national security matters. We have to be
prudent with the information we gather. We, however, should be
pro active in influencing the policy making process, by means of
the legal and/or the pure political process and the strength of
our investigations and the message they convey to the general
public.

Please, note that although I'm inclined to believe the sources, I
have no first hand direct proof of the assertions in this
article. A sense of the veracity of the contents can be seen in
our research experiences, the circumstances surrounding them and
the information floating around.


Francisco Lopez






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   Apr > Apr 30

                           'Best Question' Contest

From: mataghe@mint.net [Kathy B. Grant]
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:23:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:32:21 -0400
Subject: 'Best Question' Contest

*****************************************************************
                        WIN a NASA T-Shirt !
*****************************************************************

The Undernet #UFO-OPS, #UFO, #UFO/ESP, and #Mysterious_Universe
Internet Relay Chat Channels Invite your participation in our
semi-formal

'BEST QUESTION' CONTEST


*****************************************************************
If you were given the opportunity by NASA to officially ask one
of our "alien guests" a single question, what would that one
question be?
*****************************************************************


(Serious questions only please....)

The rules are quite simple...

Submit your 'Best Question' to the e-mail address below.... be
sure to include a legitimate return address by the DEADLINE
5/10/98.

(You may enter more than once but your entries must be submitted
seperately)

Please use the words �BEST QUESTION� in the Subject of your email.

Winning Entry and Honorable Mentions will be posted on the #UFO
website following the judging on around 5/15/98.

GOOD LUCK!


Submit your entry via regular e-mail      contest@holman.net
For information please visit          http://www.holman.net/ufo/
*****************************************************************