The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May UFO UpDates Mailing List May 1998 May 1: Re: Any More News Regarding Roswell? - Lesley Cluff [83] Scientists Foresee 'Gas Stations' On Mars - Stig Agermose [55] Re: Final Re-Edit Of 'Close Encounters' Ready - Stig Agermose [102] Re: UFO-related Audio Files? - Michael Christol [20] Re: Carp Ontario 'Exposed'..... - UFO UpDates - Toronto [49] Dutch UFO Groups? - Philip Mantle [5] Re: UFO 'Wobble' - Alfred Lehmberg [8] The People's Rally at AREA 51 in Nevada, 06-06-98 - Philip Mantle [60] Re: Carp Ontario 'Exposed'..... - xzone@webgate.net [Rob McConnell] [65] Re: Dutch UFO Groups? - William Birnes [6] Re: A New Study..... - "Jerome Clark" [23] Dutch UFO Groups? - Andy Denne [12] Project Mogul a diversion? - "Matthews" [28] Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles - "Matthews" [Tim Matthews] [120] Mach 50 Thunderdart - "Matthews" [8] Re: HOT GOSSIP UK - MAY 98 - georgina@easynet.co.uk [Georgina Bruni] [292] Nua Blather: How to Survive the UnConvention - Dave Walsh [276] Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles - Skye Turell [10] Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles - Xxyyxx [Dave Bauer] [5] PHENOMENON # 7 - part 2 - Bob [Bob Tidwell] [332] PHENOMENON # 7 - part 1 - Bob [Bob Tidwell] [373] Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles - Andy Denne [36] Re: A New Study... - Mendoza Peter Brookesmith [31] Excerpt from The Brookings Report, 1960 - UFO UpDates - Toronto [140] May 2: Re: Mach 50 Thunderdart - Michael Christol [28] Re: BUFORA WATCH 2 - "C. Sanderson" [Chris Sanderson] [31] Re: Question About Observed Triangular Shaped UFO - James Peters [9] Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles - "Jon" [Jon Dyton] [32] Re: Mach 50 Thunderdart - Baron Northrop [45] Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #244 - Alfred Lehmberg [62] FYI - Max Burns - UFO UpDates - Toronto [434] Chat with Ufologist Mark Cashman - "Yvonne Hedenland" [12] UFO UpDates - Posting Instructions - UFO UpDates - Toronto [52] Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles - "Matthews" [Tim Mathews] [6] Re: Excerpt from The Brookings Report, 1960 - "Diana Botsford" [181] Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles - "Matthews" [Tim Mathews] [58] Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles - "Matthews" [Tim Mathews] [8] [bwwma] BWW Media Alert 19980502 - BufoCalvin [49] New UFO*BC Magazine - "Spring 98" - UFO*BC [Dave Pengilly] [16] Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles - "Jerome Clark" [10] Re: Any More News Regarding Roswell? - Bruce Maccabee [18] Re: Mach 50 Thunderdart - Bruce Maccabee [25] Re: Project Mogul a diversion? - Ktperehwon [Karl Pflock] [28] Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles - Andy Denne [4] Re: Carp Ontario 'Exposed'..... - Michael Christol [42] The 'Truth' About BUFORA? - "Tim Matthews" [52] Re: Max Burns - Andy Roberts [128] New Russian UFO Crash - UFO UpDates - Toronto [31] Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles - "Serge Salvaille" [24] Re: New Russian UFO Crash - "Greg Jarikov" [29] Re: UK.UFO.NW -IRC- guest John Carpenter - United Kingdom UFO Network [73] eSufo - MGS Commentary/New images - "David Watanabe" [64] The 'Truth' About BUFORA? - Part 2 - "Tim Matthews" [51] Re: Rendlesham Unravelled - NOT - Nemesis [Lawrie Willliams] [28] Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles - Steve Neeley [20] Re: A New Study..... - Francisco Lopez [46] Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles - Michael Christol [10] Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles - UFOLAWYER1 [Peter Gersten] [12] Re: eSufo - MGS Commentary/New images - "Rick Savard" [66] Re: Rendlesham Unravelled -NOT - James Easton [97] Re: Max Burns - David Clarke [204] Philip Klass' 10 Principles For 'Investigating' - UFO UpDates - Toronto [62] Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles - Kerry Ferrand [10] Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles - Mendoza [Peter Brookesmith] [17] May 3: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles - Michael Christol [8] Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles - Michael Christol [13] Re: Philip Klass' 10 Principles For - Skye Turell [40] Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles - Steve Neeley [18] Re: Astronomers Find Evidence of Planet - Stig Agermose [120] Re: Astronomers Find Evidence Of Planet - Stig Agermose [35] Yellow Falls, Texas - Larry Hatch [18] A Few List Stats - UFO UpDates - Toronto [12] May 5: Apple-O-Gees - UFO UpDates - Toronto [5] Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles - "Matthews" [6] Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles - "Matthews" [10] Re: Max Burns - "Matthews" [21] Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles - "Serge Salvaille" [8] Re: Max Burns - Andy Roberts [65] Re: New Russian UFO Crash - drumpunk@frontiernet.net [Cody Smith] [2] British Newspaper Prints 'Best Ever' Footage! - "Matthews" [42] Re: Yellow Falls, Texas - Rob Meyer [2] Fastest Aircraft Engine is Russian - Doc in Phoenix [9] Anglican Bishops Believe In Alien Life - Joachim Koch [44] Arthur C. Clarke On Europa Line - Stig Agermose [19] Montauk Files 'Hacked'? - Stig Agermose [51] 19th Rocky Mountain UFO Conference - sfrfc@frii.com [Franklin Carter] [10] UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 18 - Masinaigan [Joseph Trainor] [516] Who is....? - Andy Denne [12] UFO Desk Update - Paul Williams [32] Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles - Mark Cashman [39] Jean van Gemert's Website Updated - Jean van Gemert [7] Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles - Steve Neeley [19] Re: SLV Update: Another Mute - "Christopher O'Brien" [43] New Russian UFO Crash is Not 'New' - "Greg Jarikov" [34] Re: New Russian UFO Crash is Not 'New' - Larry Hatch [11] Re: British Newspaper Prints 'Best Ever' Footage! - "Jon" [Jonathan Dyton] [32] Re: Russian UFO Crash - "Nikolay V. Subbotin" [15] Re: New Russian UFO Crash is Not 'New' - Bob Shell [8] Re: British Newspaper Prints 'Best Ever' Footage! - Dave [Dave Watkinson] [4] Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 18 - Mark Cashman [65] May 6: Night-light Sighting - Larry Hatch [23] Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles - Henny van der Pluijm [37] UFOR: Re: A New Study..... - Francisco Lopez [37] UFOR: Brother Blue & The Colonel - Francisco Lopez [34] Alfred's Odd Ode #245 - Alfred Lehmberg [77] Re: Night-light Sighting - Laura Hutton [13] Scientists at Odds with Jeffrey - Terry Blanton [103] Re: New Russian UFO Crash is Not 'New' - "Greg Jarikov" [13] Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles - "Serge Salvaille" [14] Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles - Bob Tidwell [51] Billy Meier - koch@wad.berlin.fido.de <Joachim Koch> [79] Astronomers Study Deep-Space Blast - RSchatte [Rebecca] [90] May 7: 'Skyquakes' In Southern California? - Stig Agermose [53] Re: Skyquake In SO CA - Stig Agermose [57] Re: Night-light Sighting - Larry Hatch [21] Re: 4 Million Year Old Man - Stig Agermose [44] Re: UFOR: Brother Blue & The Colonel - Michael Christol [18] Re: Yellowstone Offers Clue To Martian Life - Stig Agermose [128] Re: Scientists at Odds with Jeffrey - Bob Shell [12] Successful Experiment On 'Guiding' Rain Clouds? - Stig Agermose [34] Re: New Russian UFO Crash is Not 'New' - Bob Shell [5] CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved - Stig Agermose [17] British Farmers Asked To Help In Mutilation - Stig Agermose [42] Current-Encounters: Ref: Tim Matthews - "Victor J.Kean" [14] NEWS FLASH: Cranwell & UFOs - georgina@easynet.co.uk [Georgina Bruni] [35] Filer's Files #18 - Majorstar [George Filer] [369] Re: Scientists at Odds with Jeffrey - Terry Blanton [19] Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved - Mark Cashman [27] Vanderbilt Scientist, Veteran Newsman To Testify - RSchatte [Rebecca] [38] 'North Sea UFO' - Andy Denne [26] Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved - UFO UpDates - Toronto [32] Re: New Russian UFO Crash is Not 'New' - CNINews1 [Michael Lindemann] [8] Kathy Kasten On #Visitations - Angela Shilling [100] Solar-Interplanetary Influences That Govern UFO - Stig Agermose [154] May 8: Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved - CNINews1 [Michael Lindemann] [9] Max Burns' Sheffield Incident Report - Angela Shilling [8] Re: New Russian UFO Crash is Not 'New' - Stig Agermose [61] Re: British Farmers Asked To Help In Mutilation - "Leanne Martin" [31] NM DA Suspects Cattle Mutilation - Stig Agermose [30] The Paradigm Clock - ParadigmRG [Stephen Bassett] [37] Information & UFOs - "Andre Sibert" [8] Re: British Farmers Asked To Help In Mutilation - "Steven Kaeser" [24] Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved - Skye Turell [8] Re: 'Skyquakes' In Southern California? - Steve Martin [26] Re: The Paradigm Clock - KRandle993 [Kevin Randle] [15] Nua Blather: Surviving the UnCon: Lesson II - Dave Walsh [367] Re: NASA Endorses Podkletnov's Anti-Gravity - Stig Agermose [73] Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved - Stig Agermose [70] Ricardo's Saga - Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo [9] Bar Graph Comparing Day To Night Sightings Plus - Stig Agermose [86] General Curtis LeMay: "UFOs Are Real" - Stig Agermose [102] Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved - Stig Agermose [22] May 9: Ufomind: John Alexander: Time to Tell - UFO UpDates - Toronto [102] Re: The Paradigm Clock - "Stanton T. Friedman" [3] Project 194 - Bessie Brazel Schreiber - Jerome Clark [19] Project 1947 - Bessie Brazel Schreiber - HerbUFO [Herb Taylor] [23] Alfred's Odd Ode #246 - Alfred Lehmberg [58] Re: The Paradigm Clock - Bob Shell [7] Re: The Paradigm Clock - UFOLAWYER1 [Peter Gersten] [3] Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved - Larry Hatch [10] MUFON a bit behind... - Steve Neeley [28] Apollo 13 Style Satellite Salvage First Of Its Kind - UFO UpDates - Toronto [69] Re: The Paradigm Clock - Alfred Lehmberg [9] BWW Media Alert 19980508 - BufoCalvin [58] Re: Ricardo's Saga - Larry Hatch [6] Re: The Paradigm Clock - Ufojoe1 [Joe Murgia] [34] Re: Billy Meier - Joachim Koch [38] 'Alien Interview' Available as .mpg or .mov? - Andy Denne [19] Re: {92} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network - United Kingdom UFO Network [608] {92} part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network - United Kingdom UFO Network [672] May 11: Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved - "Roger R. Prokic" [9] Re: The Paradigm Clock - ufotruth@ix.netcom.com [William Hand] [10] Re: 'Alien Interview' Available as .mpg or .mov? - Sean Jones [6] Re: Ricardo's Saga - Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo [12] Re: The Paradigm Clock - ufotruth@ix.netcom.com [William Hand] [22] Re: The Paradigm Clock - John Velez [16] Re: Scientists at Odds with Jeffrey - RGates8254 [Robert Gates] [28] Re: The Paradigm Clock - Bob Shell [3] 1897 Phantom Airship and "Captain Pegasus" - "Kenny Young" [81] Statement From Nick Redfern And Irene Bott - Darren Danks [117] Re: 'Alien Interview' Available as .mpg or .mov? - Bob Shell [5] UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 19 - Masinaigan [Joseph Trainor] [442] Re: Computer request - ParadigmRG [Steve Bassett] [23] Re: Chat with Geologists Erjavec & Moore - "Yvonne Hedenland" [22] Re: 'Alien Interview' Available as .mpg or .mov? - "Rick Savard" [7] Cydonia Geology According to SPSR Geologists - "Diana Botsford" [26] Army releases previously classified 'Secret' - UFOLAWYER1 [31] USA TODAY Update On Cydonia Controversy - Stig Agermose [90] Re: The Paradigm Clock - Michael Christol [23] 11th Annual International UFO Conference - Philip Mantle [127] Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? - Darren Danks [90] Re: Ricardo's Saga - Larry Hatch [5] Petition Against Alien Discrimination - Stig Agermose [44] Re: Chat with Geologists Erjavec & Moore - Bob Shell [7] Re: MUFON a bit behind... - Steve Neeley [79] Re: Army Releases Previously Classified Documents - "Stanton T. Friedman" [7] Re: 'Alien Interview' Available as..... - james rhodes [20] Re: 'Alien Interview' Available as..... - Andy Denne [11] Burger King's Alien Ad Campaign - Stig Agermose [37] Re: The Paradigm Clock - "Stanton T. Friedman" [5] Re: Army Releases Previously Classified Documents - UFOLAWYER1 [25] May 12: Re: The Paradigm Clock - JJ [Jennifer Jarvis] [12] CNN - UFO Security Classification Hearings - Stig Agermose [52] Re: New Russian UFO Crash - "Laurie Maclean" [8] Re: Army Releases Previously Classified Documents - UFOLAWYER1 [9] UFOs And The Governments Of The USA And UK - Stig Agermose [212] Pics of Meier's 'Asket' on Dean Martin Show - Joachim Koch [39] Re: 'Alien Interview' Available as..... - Bob Shell [8] Re: The Paradigm Clock - "Serge Salvaille" [13] Ray Santilli V Bob Kiviat - Philip Mantle [41] Re: Ray Santilli V Bob Kiviat - Jon Dyton [27] Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? - "Tim Matthews" [10] May 13: Re: Pics of Meier's 'Asket' on Dean Martin Show - Jim Deardorff [40] 'The American Funeral Director' on Glenn Dennis - Stig Agermose [364] Re: Army Releases Previously Classified Documents - RGates8254 [Robert Gates] [6] Re: 'Alien Interview' Available as..... - Michael Christol [22] NASA Extinguishes Hoagland's 'Smoking Gun'? - Stig Agermose [22] Re: Ray Santilli V Bob Kiviat - RGates8254 [24] Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? - "sally mandella" [32] State Of The List - "Leanne Martin" [19] Obituary: Victor Kucharek - Stig Agermose [41] Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? - JOHN LUSHMAN [169] Alfred's Odd Ode #247 - Alfred Lehmberg [48] Re: State Of The List - UFO UpDates - Toronto [69] Re: Army Releases Previously Classified Documents - "Stanton T. Friedman" [9] Re: State Of The List - Donnie Shevlin [29] Re: State Of The List - "Beverly Trout" [8] Re: State Of The List - Marie Ivey [7] Re: 'Alien Interview' Available as..... - Bob Shell [14] Re: State Of The List - Sheree Cox [4] UpDates Moving & Off-Line Until 05-17-98 - UFO UpDates - Toronto [7] May 17: Re: - Larry Hatch [25] Re: Ray Santilli V Bob Kiviat - "Serge Salvaille" [18] Back On-Line - UFO UpDates - Toronto [6] BUFORA WATCH 5 - Mike Wootten [199] Hubble Provides Multiple Views of How to Feed a - NASANews@hq.nasa.gov [93] Re: State Of The List - Doc" [16] Re: NASA Extinguishes Hoagland's 'Smoking Gun'? - "Rick Savard" [56] Re: UFO Security Classification Hearings - Brian Cuthbertson [18] Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? - Michael Christol [63] Re: UFOs And The Governments Of The USA And UK - "Leanne Martin" [21] Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? - "Matthews" [17] Re: Pics of Meier's 'Asket' on Dean Martin Show - Joachim Koch [73] Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? - JOHN LUSHMAN [37] Magonia ETH Bulletin - Mendoza [Peter Brookesmith] [16] Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? - "Matthews" [654] Filer's Files #19 - Majorstar [George A. Filer [300] [bwwma] BWW Media Alert 19980516 - BufoCalvin [79] Nua Blather: UFOs and Humptydoo - Dave Walsh [257] SETI League Considers Interstellar Visitation - SKvs [Sue Kovios] [62] Re: Ray Santilli V Bob Kiviat - Philip Mantle [6] MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 01 - Mendoza [Peter Brookesmith] [273] Re: UFO Security Classification Hearings - "Stanton T. Friedman" [19] MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 03 - Mendoza [Peter Brookesmith] [314] MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 02 - Mendoza [Peter Brookesmith] [407] Re: Ray Santilli V Bob Kiviat - Bob Shell [5] Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? - StrmNut [Greg St. Pierre] [5] UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 20 - Masinaigan [Joseph Trainor] [497] Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 01 - Jerome Clark [24] Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' - SGB List 2 [Stephen Bassett] [14] Re: Time to retire "UFOlogist, UFOlogy" - UFO UpDates - Toronto [14] Battle Lines are Being Drawn - SGB List 2 [16] Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 03 - "Beverly Trout" [19] Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? - Tim Matthews [8] Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? - UFO UpDates - Toronto [35] Re: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' - Mike Wootten [23] Re: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' - Bob Shell [9] Alien Alley Gallery - Jeff Westover [12] Re: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' - Jim Griebel [20] SETI Finds Something!? - Stig Agermose [54] Sarfatti On Warp Drives And Corso's Book - Stig Agermose [265] May 18: Re: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' - "Steven Kaeser" [13] New Discovery in Egypt? - Ufojoe1 [Joe Murgia] [33] SETI Director: Protocols Should Consider - Stig Agermose [79] New 'MJ-12' Documents? - Stig Agermose [34] Time Capsule - Where do you fit in? - KAnder6444 [41] Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 01 - " Jerry Cohen" [114] Time to retire 'Ufologist, Ufology' - Mendoza [Peter Brookesmith] [30] Phenomenon # 8 - Part 1 - Bob Tidwell [175] Phenomenon # 8 - Part 2 - Bob Tidwell [357] Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' - XianneKei [Rebecca Keith] [19] Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' - "Jerome Clark" [14] Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' - Doc Barry in Phoenix [27] Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' - SGB List 2 [Stephen Bassett] [10] Re: Ray Santilli V Bob Kiviat - RGates8254 [Robert Gates] [15] Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' - SGB List 2 [27] Hancock & West on Hawass - Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk [64] Chat with Dr. John Brandenburg - Yvonne Hedenland [17] Ideas, Viewpoints And Positive Discussion - John Cussen [49] Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' - Stanton T. Friedman [4] Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' - Andy Denne [13] Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' - Brian Straight [24] Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' - Edoardo Russo [13] Re: Time Capsule - Where do you fit in? - "Donnie W. Shevlin" [72] Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' - Bob Shell [3] Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? - "Serge Salvaille" [19] Re: New Discovery in Egypt - John [17] Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? - ufotruth@ix.netcom.com [William Hand] [39] Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' - "David Baker" [7] eSufo - Martian bacteria/UFO movies - www.exosci.com " [45] Re: Phenomenon # 8 - Part 2 - RAMBLD@worldnet.att.net [Diane] [26] 'Psychosocialbabble' IUR 15.3 May/June 1990 - "Jerome Clark" [228] Re: Time Capsule - Where do you fit in? - Skye Turell [9] Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' - SGB List 2 [Stephen Bassett] [12] Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? - Stig Agermose [13] Aztec, The UFO And The Skeptics - Stig Agermose [142] Roswell UFO Museum Foresees $15 Million Expansion - Stig Agermose [51] Gascoigne's #1 Dream: To See A UFO - Stig Agermose [55] May 19: New Top Secret Document Revealed - Jan Aldrich [86] Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? - Larry Hatch [12] Strieber on CSPAN? - Ufojoe1 [35] Re: Phenomenon # 8 - Part 2 - Larry Hatch [15] Re: NASA Announces Astrobiology Institute - Stig Agermose [42] Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? - RGates8254 [Robert Gates] [10] Re: eSufo - SETI pulses - David Watanabe [53] E.T.H. - Extremely Tenuous Hypothesis - "Mark Pilkington" [159] Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' - Bob Shell [10] Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' - Jakes Louw [32] Re: 'MJ-12' Documents? - KRandle993 [Kevin Randle] [26] Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? - Jan Aldrich [70] Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? - "Serge Salvaille" [20] Re: Strieber on CSPAN? - Bob Shell [9] Re: Phenomenon # 8 - Part 2 - John [27] Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist, Ufology' - J H Peterson [Candy Peterson] [32] Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' - Steven Kaeser [58] Re: E.T.H. - Extremely Tenuous Hypothesis - "Jerome Clark" [113] Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? - "Jerome Clark" [13] Re: Phenomenon # 8 - Part 2 - Bob Tidwell [16] Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist, Ufology' - Bob Shell [5] Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles - Marty Garza [191] Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' - Jim Deardorff [27] Re: 'MJ-12' Documents? - eotl@west.net [Jeff Rense] [14] Re: E.T.H. - Extremely Tenuous Hypothesis - Mendoza [Peter Brookesmith] [13] Re: E.T.H. - Extremely Tenuous Hypothesis - Dennis Stacy [77] Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? - "Stanton T. Friedman" [7] Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? - Bruce Lanier Wright [6] May 20: Re: 'MJ-12' Documents? - Scott Hale [6] Re: New Discovery in Egypt? - Ufojoe1 [Joe Murgia] [17] [lunascan] Science News on LTP - Brian Cuthbertson [58] Re: Time to retire "Ufologist, Ufology" - SGB List 2 [Stephen G. Bassett] [31] Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' - SGB List 2 [Stephen G. Bassett] [16] JPL Cybercast: A.C. Clarke About Life On Europa - Stig Agermose [123] SETI pulses... Not - "Mark Pilkington" [31] Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? - "Stanton T. Friedman" [10] Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' - John Velez [20] Re: Strieber on CSPAN? - Ufojoe1 [56] Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? - eotl@west.net [Jeff Rense] [16] Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' - Joachim Koch [15] Re: FW: SETI pulses... - "Mark Pilkington" [63] PROJECT-1947 - 'Air Western' Incident - Mike Rogalski [16] Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' - Bob Shell [20] Re: Phenomenon # 8 - Part 2 - J H Peterson 00[ Candy Peterson] [18] Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? - Bruce Maccabee [7] Re: New Discovery in Egypt? - John [31] Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? - RGates8254 [Robert Gates] [18] Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' - Jim Deardorff [42] Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? - RGates8254 [Robert Gates] [15] May 21: FBI FOIA Docs - SKvs [Sue Kovios] [12] Re: Invent A Private Spacecraft, Win - Stig Agermose [54] 200 Physicists Search For Antistars And Antipeople - Stig Agermose [121] Re: The Paradigm Clock - Mike Jamieson [13] Re: Strieber on CSPAN? - John Velez [18] UFO Roundup and Filer's Files Search Engines - John Hayes [13] Re: The Paradigm Clock - Steven Kaeser [26] Re: Strieber on CSPAN? - "Jerome Clark" [13] Re: Strieber on CSPAN? - buck@cchat.com [Bill Weber] [11] Re: Strieber on CSPAN? - Ufojoe1 [Joe Murgia] [27] Info request - ParadigmRG [Stephen G. Bassett] [9] Re: 200 Physicists Search For Antistars And - RGates8254 [Robert Gates] [16] Re: The Paradigm Clock - John Velez [32] May 22: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? - Don Ledger [12] Re: Info request - "Steven Kaeser" [10] Filer's Files #20 - Majorstar [301] Re: Info request - Theresa Carlson [17] Re: Strieber on CSPAN? - John [22] Crazy Week - Masinaigan [Joseph Trainor] [13] Re: Strieber on CSPAN? - John [16] Re: UFO Roundup and Filer's Files Search Engines - Larry Hatch [6] Re: Info request - Alfred Lehmberg [12] eSufo - Explaining a Lunar Mystery - www.exosci.com " [52] Re: Strieber on CSPAN? - Melempire [Mel Donovan] [6] Re: Strieber on CSPAN? - Ufojoe1 [Joe Murgia] [22] May 23: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? - Skye Turell [27] Re: Info request - RAMBLD@worldnet.att.net [Diane Lovett] [17] Re: Filer's Files #20 - "Greg Sandow" [25] Re: Info request - Henny van der Pluijm [17] Re: The Paradigm Clock - Mike Jamieson [43] Re: Filer's Files #20 - "Jerome Clark" [17] Re: Strieber on CSPAN? - Andy Denne [13] White dots/discs, daylight sightings - John [32] Re: Crazy Week - Perry Mick [2] Billy Meier admits: 'Asket' and 'Nera' pics ARE a - Joachim Koch [146] Hawas' Standing - Statement From Amargi Hillier - UFO UpDates - Toronto [230] Nua Blather: Rocks From Irish Skies - Dave Walsh [209] Billy Meier/FIGU on Kal K. Korf - FIGU Switzerland [Christian Frehner] [231] Re: Strieber on CSPAN? - Don Ledger [19] Crazy Week 2 - Masinaigan [Joseph Trainor] [12] Re: University Of Colorado Joins NASA's - wanderer@post8.tele.dk [Stig Agermose] [59] Re: Strieber on CSPAN? - Don Ledger [17] Re: Filer's Files #20 - Don Ledger [11] Re: White Dots/Discs, Daylight Sightings - Don Ledger [17] Re: Strieber on CSPAN? - Kevin Randle [11] Billy Meier: Asket and Nera photos - FIGU Switzerland [Christian Frehner] [249] Skywatch: Another Gutsy Celebrity - "Skywatch" [Sharolyn Stenger] [41] Re: Strieber on CSPAN? - Don Ledger [16] Re: Filer's Files #20 - "Jerome Clark" [53] Re: Strieber on CSPAN? - Skye Turell [5] Re: Crazy Week 2 - "Jeff Westover" [11] Re: White House demonstration planned by ORTK - Mike Jamieson [21] Re: Strieber on CSPAN? - buck@cchat.com [Bill Weber] [28] Re: Meier admits: 'Asket' and 'Nera' pics ARE a - Jim Deardorff [55] May 24: Re: The Paradigm Clock - John [12] Re: Strieber on CSPAN? - John [24] International Sasquatch Symposium: June 5 - 7, 1998 - UFO*BC [David Pengilly] [15] Re: Strieber on CSPAN? - Skye Turell [23] Re: Strieber on CSPAN? - Ufojoe1 [Joe Murgia] [13] Re: Strieber on CSPAN? - KAnder6444 [Kathleen Andersen] [30] Possible Pyramid to the North of Triangle? - Milamo [Michael Lawrence Morton] [92] Re: Strieber on CSPAN? - Ufojoe1 [Joe Murgia] [54] Re: White Dots/Discs, Daylight Sightings - John Velez [13] Re: White House demonstration planned by ORTK - "Steven Kaeser" [39] Help Wanted - Andy Denne [11] Re: Meier admits: 'Asket' and 'Nera' pics a fraud - Bob Shell [15] Alfred's Odd Ode #247 - Alfred Lehmberg [33] May 25: Re: White House demonstration planned by ORTK - Mike Jamieson [26] Re: Whitley Strieber [was: ...on CSPAN?] - "Greg Sandow" [8] UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 21 - Masinaigan [Joseph Trainor] [458] Chat with Dr. Horace Crater & Dr. Stanley McDaniel - "Yvonne Hedenland" [16] Registry of UFO Collections - Jan Aldrich [47] Cydonia Opinion Poll - JJ Mercieca [7] The Sheffield Incident - AlienHype1 [Max Burns] [15] Re: Filer's Files #20 - "Jerome Clark" [7] Re: Whitley Strieber - Don Ledger [11] Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted - Part 1 - "Kenny Young" [522] Re: White House demonstration planned by ORTK - "Steven Kaeser" [48] Re: Pres. Carter - "Jerome Clark" [17] Re: Pres. Carter - Don Ledger [31] Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted - Part 2 - "Kenny Young" [373] PROJECT-1947 - Project Sign Site - slk [Francis Ridge] [16] SPSR Reports Results of Cydonia Image Analysis - "Yvonne Hedenland" [22] Re: UFO Over Tipperary - Stig Agermose [29] Salty Traces Hint At Europa's Ocean - Stig Agermose [66] UK Conference - 'UFOs - The Global Evidence' - Tony Spurrier [11] Re: Filer's Files #20 - RGates8254 [Robert Gates} [10] Re: Pres. Carter - DRudiak [David Rudiak] [85] The Donald E. Keyhoe Archives - Jan Aldrich [70] Canada Centre for Remote Sensing - werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson] [10] Re: White House demonstration planned by ORTK - "Steven Kaeser" [3] Re: E.T.H. - Extremely Tenuous Hypothesis - "Serge Salvaille" [14] May 26: Re: Pres. Carter - Don Ledger [7] Re: Strieber on CSPAN? - Ufojoe1 [Joe Murgia] [14] Re: Billy Meier admits: 'Asket' and 'Nera' pics - Joachim Koch [100] Re: Canada Centre for Remote Sensing - Kerry Ferrand [4] Re: Canada Centre for Remote Sensing - "Rick Goldsmith" [4] Re: Help Wanted - Sue Kovios [5] Re: Billy Meier admits: 'Asket' and 'Nera' pics - Jim Deardorff [26] The State Of Science In The US - "Rick Savard" [93] May 27: Re: State of science - "Jeff Westover" [5] Trans-Lunar Phenomena - 98/05/26 - Jakes Louw [9] Max Burns Interview on #Visitations - Angela Shilling [25] Another New Zealand UFO Pioneer Dies - Jan Aldrich [44] PROJECT-1947: FBI-NSA FOIA CD-ROM - Steven Kaeser [17] Re: The Sheffield Incident - Jeroen Wierda [14] Re: Whitley Strieber - "Greg Sandow" [8] DISPATCH # 94 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope - ParaScope [154] Re: Trans-Lunar Phenomena - 98/05/26 - Brian Straight [4] Posting Rules - UFO UpDates - Toronto [55] Re: Pres. Carter - "Jerome Clark" [28] May 28: Re: Just For Grins - Glenn Joyner [12] Re: SPSR Say Face _Is_ Artificial - JJ Mercieca [28] May 27: Surveyor Data Reveal More Evidence - NASANews@hq.nasa.gov [97] May 28: Re: Canada Centre for Remote Sensing - werd@interlog.com [4] Re: White House demonstration planned by ORTK - RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates] [47] Two Astrobiology Programs Selected For Funding - Stig Agermose [129] Filer's Files #21 - Majorstar@aol.com [George A. Filer] [382] Re: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted - bruce maccabee [18] May 29: OVNI BRASIL: Tumba Descoberta - Masinaigan@aol.com [62] Re: Just For Grins - Bob Shell [5] Re: Trans-Lunar Phenomena - 98/05/26 - Jakes Louw [4] Whidbey Island Crop Circles (The Daily Herald) - Stig Agermose [56] Skywatch: Area 51 Still Operational - StarmanBH@aol.com [Bill Hamilton] [42] Hubble Takes First Image of Planet Around Another - NASANews@hq.nasa.gov [129] New Dawn Breaks For Airships After 60-year Gap - UFO UpDates - Toronto [93] Press Release - Mars Ice in Craters - "Yvonne Hedenland" [86] Re: Trans-Lunar Phenomena - 98/05/26 - Nick Balaskas [27] Re: Skywatch: Area 51 Still Operational - CMG UK Limited" [75] UFOs and Grassroot Action: What next? - Mike Jamieson [28] Re: UFO Burnout [was: Area 51 Still Operational] - "Betty A. Wells" [6] Re: Trans-Lunar Phenomena - 98/05/26 - Brian Straight [5] Nua Blather: Hotrocks or Humbugs? - Dave Walsh [197] Re: Trans-Lunar Phenomena - 98/05/26 - Larry Hatch [7] On Tapes From District 3 - Steve Neeley [85] Re: UFO Burnout [was: Area 51 Still Operational] - Ralf Zeigermann [34] Re: UFO Burnout [was: Area 51 Still Operational] - "Marigold" [13] Re: UFO Burnout [was: Area 51 Still Operational] - Lloyd Bayliss [37] Re: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted - Ralf Zeigermann [6] Re: UFO Burnout [was: Area 51 Still Operational] - Bob Shell [8] May 30: Re: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted - bruce maccabee [33] Re: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted - Perry Mick [11] Re: UFO Burnout - Kelly Anthony Quiros [22] Chat with Sarah McClendon, White House - "Yvonne Hedenland" [23] Re: UFO Burnout - "Cathy Johnson" [41] Summation re J. Carter's Sighting & Comments - " Jerry Cohen" [209] Re: UFO Burnout [was: Area 51 Still Operational] - Darby0147@aol.com [Dale Darby] [34] Re: Just For Grins - Glenn Joyner [15] Re: UFO Burnout - Alfred Lehmberg [20] Alien Baloney - RSchatte@aol.com [Rebecca] [193] Re: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted - Larry Hatch [18] Grassroots Action - Larry Hatch [42] Alfred's Odd Ode #249 - Alfred Lehmberg [79] Re: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted - Bob Shell [5] Re: Pres. Carter - "Beverly Trout" [8] Re: Max Burns - Graham William Birdsall [17] May 31: Re: UFO Burnout - RAMBLD@worldnet.att.netc [Diane Lovett] [17] Re: UFO Burnout - millpond@idirect.com [Jacquie Cosford] [37] Corso Signs CAUS Affidavit - Stig Agermose [39] Re: UFO Burnout - RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates] [46] Re: Alien Baloney - SGBList2@aol.com [Stephen G. Bassett] [7] Re: Alien Baloney - "Marigold" [20] Re: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted - "Steven Kaeser" [10] Re: Alien Baloney - John Velez [19] UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 22 - Masinaigan@aol.com [Joseph Trainor] [520]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 1 Re: Any More News Regarding Roswell? From: Lesley Cluff <manitou@fox.nstn.ca> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 23:40:08 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 08:14:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Any More News Regarding Roswell? >Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 22:29:55 -0400 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Any More News Regarding Roswell? >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >There were aricraft on alert all during the July 4 weekend all along > >the west coast. > > Is there evidence this was related to events at Roswell? > > >Ed Ruppelt, in his book, talked of the Pentagon being in a state of > >near panic in July 1947. > > Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of Ruppelt's book. Does he say > why there was a panic at this time? > > When was the alert/panic over and what happened to appease the > concerns? I know I may be breaking into the middle of a conversation here, but since I happen to have the Ruppelt book I thought maybe I could add a bit of info here. Its been awhile since I read the book, so took me a few minutes to find out what was going on in July of 1947. I did recall no mention of Roswell and that I thought that odd when I read the book. But the time period is very well covered in Capter 2, 'The Era of Confusion Begins', page 15. Its tempting to just type out a few pages, but that might be bit much, so I will skip to page 20 and with a few edits of non essential words, provide what Ruppelt documents as happening in that period! Seems the idea that the crashed item near Roswell might be a 'flying saucer' rahter fit with the news of the day! "The week of July 4, l947, set a record for reports that was not broken until 1952. The center of activity was the Portland, Oregon, area. At 11 am a carload of people driving near Redmond saw four diskshaped objects streading past Mount Jefferson. At 1:05 pm, a policeman was in the parking lot behind the Portland City Police Headquarters when he noticed some pigeons suddenly begin to flutter around as if they were scared. He looked up and saw five large disk-shaped objects, two going south and three going east. They were traveling at a high rate of speed and seemed to be oscilating about their lateral axis. Minutes later two other policement, both ex-pilots, reported three of the same things flying in trail. Before long the harbor patrol called into headquarters. A crew of four patrolment had seen three to six of teh fdisks, "shaped like chrome hub caps," traveling very fast. They also oscillated as they flew. Then the citizens of Portland began to see them. A man saw one going east and two going north. At four-thirty a woman called in and had just seen one that looked like "a new dime flipping around." Anohter man reported two, one going southeast, one northeast. From Milwaukie Oregon, three were reported going northwest. In Vancouver, Wishinton, Sheriff's deputies twenty to thirty. The first photo was taken on July 4 in Seattle. After much publicity it turned out to be a weather balloon. That night, a United Airlines crew flying near Emmett, Idaho, saw fine. The pilot's report read: "Five 'somethings," which were thin and smooth on the bottom and rough-appearing on top, were seen silhouetted against the sunset shortly after the plane took off from Boise at 8:04 pm. We saw them clearly. We followed lthem in a northeasterly direcgtion for about 45 miles. They finally disappeared. We were unable to tell whether they outsed us or disintegrated. We can't say whether they were 'smearline' , oval or anything else but whatever they were, they were not aircraft, clouds or smoke." Civilians did not have a corner on the market. On July 6, a staff sergeant in Birminghan, Alabama, saw several "dim, glowing lights" speeding across the sky and photographed one of them. Also on the 6th, the crew of an Air Force B-25 saw a bright , disk-shaped object "low at nine o'clock." ......... ...the first sighting that really made the Air Force take a deep interest in UFO's occurred on July 8 at Muroc Air Base (now Edwards AFB),........test pilot.... happened to look up and to the north he saw what first appeared to be a weather balloon traveling in a westerly direction. .... he changed his mind. ........had it been the size of a normal sircraft, the test pilot estimated that it would hve been at 10,000 to 12,000 feet and traveling 200 to 225 miles per hour. He described the object as being spherically shaped and yellowish while in colour. Tehn minutes before this, several other officers and airmen had seen three objects....were similar except they had more of a silver colour. .....Two hours later a crew of technicians on Rogers Dry Lake, adjacent to Muroc Air Base, observed another UFO. ....it presented a distinct oval-shaped outline. .....NO smoke, flames, propeller arcs, engine noise, or other plausible or visible means of propulsion were noted. ..The colour was silver. Exactly four hours later the pilot of an F-51 ws flying at 20,000 feet about 40 miles south of Muroc Air Base when he sighted a "flat object of a light-reflecting nature." By the end of July 1947, the UFO securitylife was down tight. The few members of the press who did inquire about what teh Air Force was doing got the same treatment that youwould get today if you inquired about the number of thermonuclear weapons stock-piled in the US's atomic arsenal. No one, outside of a few high-ranking officers in the Pentagon, knew what the people in the arbed wire enclosed Quonset huts that housed the Air TEchnical Intelligence Center were thinking or doing." I guess that could be nicely summed up as "the Pentagon being in a state of panic"! Seems logical to me! With all that activity, I'm surprised that Roswell was overlooked by Ruppelt. Or was it deliberately left out? With that much activity, was the ship that crashed one of a fleet? We tend to think of 'Roswell' as being a single anomolous event -- seems it was just the unlucky one! Hope this is of value! Lesley -- Lesley Cluff, Ontario, Canada manitou@fox.nstn.ca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 1 Scientists Foresee 'Gas Stations' On Mars From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 05:34:58 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 07:40:14 -0400 Subject: Scientists Foresee 'Gas Stations' On Mars >From The Seattle Times. URL: http://www.seattletimes.com/news/nation-world/html98/mars_043098.html ******* Copyright =A9 1998 The Seattle Times Company Posted at 06:29 a.m. PDT; Thursday, April 30, 1998 Scientists foresee 'gas stations' on Mars by Michael Miller Reuters PASADENA - Sometime in the not very distant future, an astronaut on Mars might say, "Fill 'er up Joe, we're going home." At a conference filled with visions of low-cost space exploration, scientists concentrated yesterday on a thorny problem: How to get man and machinery back from Mars. Researchers think Mars may be the easiest planet for future manned missions to reach but getting back from Mars to Earth is another thing. The answer might just be a Martian "gas station" using the planet's own resources to make fuel for the return trip home, Paul Mueller told fellow space scientists at the third annual International Astronautical Association Conference on Low Cost Planetary Missions here. Later, Mueller said that while there had been several landings on Mars by unmanned craft - the latest being last year's highly successful Mars Pathfinder mission - taking off from the Red Planet "is certainly more difficult than anything we have done so far." The National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) has the technology to build huge spacecraft and boosters that could carry their own fuel to Mars and then take off again, at a cost of billions of dollars. But under the space agency's "faster, better, cheaper" policy, that was not feasible, Mueller said. Mueller, a senior research engineer at the Utah State University's Space Dynamics Laboratory, said that the best way to return samples to Earth in unmanned missions to Mars, as envisioned in NASA's plans over the next six years, was "BYOP" or Bring Your Own Propellants. "But for any kind of human mission where you are trying to bring people back, there's almost universal agreement that producing the power on Mars is the preferred way to go," he said. Mueller's team, in conjunction with NASA's scientists at the agency's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, are developing a system that will compress carbon dioxide from the Martian atmosphere and mix it with hydrogen brought from Earth to produce water and methane, the basic ingredients needed for a propulsion system. The system could be used on a small, unmanned craft that would collect soil and rock samples from the planet, make its own fuel and take off to rendezvous with a mother ship orbiting the planet, which would then return it to Earth. If that effort is a success, then follows the master plan for a gas station on Mars. "The current plan . . . is you land an unmanned propellant production plant on Mars and let it sit there and make propellant and then when it radios back and says it's full and ready to go, then you make a decision to send people. You wait until you have the fuel there until you send your people there," Mueller said. Although the plan is not yet on NASA's official blueprint for the future, Mueller believes it will go on the space-agency's agenda. "It's a kind of de facto plan that everyone agrees is the way to go, it just hasn't been officially blessed yet," he said. Copyright =A9 1998 The Seattle Times Company
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 1 Re: Final Re-Edit Of 'Close Encounters' Ready From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 05:39:51 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 07:44:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Final Re-Edit Of 'Close Encounters' Ready >From the Los Angeles Times Syndicate via CNN. URL: http://www.cnn.com/SHOWBIZ/9804/30/home.video.lat/index.html ******* Home video: New 'Close Encounters' cut ready for collectors By Scott Hettrick CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND: THE COLLECTOR'S EDITION (Columbia TriStar, VHS priced for sell-through with a minimum advertised price of $13.95, laserdisc $79.95, rated PG) 1977. Directed by Steven Spielberg; starring Richard Dreyfuss, Melinda Dillon, Teri Garr and Francois Truffaut. Not to be confused with "Close Encounters of the Third Kind: The Special Edition," this third and supposedly final re-edit of the 1977 movie about man's first official and friendly encounter with aliens from Steven Spielberg removes the final nearly three-minute segment inside the alien Mothership that was added against Spielberg's wishes in order for the studio to justify re-releasing the Special Edition theatrically (in 1980). Although the Special Edition generated only $13.6 million in grosses compared to $114 million for the original, it is the Special Edition that most people are familiar with, because it is the edition that has been distributed on video and shown on TV. Spielberg claimed that he was so rushed into releasing the 135-minute original in time for Christmas, 1977, that he didn't have time to edit the movie as he really wanted. He made at least 14 changes for the 132-minute Special Edition, many of which involved minor trimming of scenes, such as the introduction of Roy, the Richard Dreyfuss character, playing with his model trains; Roy at the power station just before he heads out in his truck and has his first "encounter"; Roy seeing the shape of Devil's Tower in his pillow after visualizing the same shape in his shaving cream; Roy slowly coming to sit at the dinner table, joining his family, before he forms Devil's Tower out of his mashed potatoes; and an extended scene of animals and other chaos at the train station near Devil's Tower, including an encounter between Roy and a military guard played by a post-"Rocky" Carl Weathers. The total running time of those cuts (which can be seen in the Voyager's Criterion Collection laserdisc edition of the original cut of the movie) and a handful of insignificant others equals less than five minutes, and they remain the same in this new 137-minute collector's edition available on both VHS and laserdisc in standard and wide screen formats. Spielberg still refuses to allow any of his movies to be released on the new DVD platform, but the laserdisc offers a far superior picture and color tones than the new VHS, which is muted and grainy. Spielberg swapping around same scenes One of the two most significant cuts Spielberg made for the Special Edition was to remove a nearly four-minute press conference held by the Air Force to dispel the reported sightings of UFOs by Roy and other locals. The other was to trim more than four-and-a-half minutes of the scene in which Roy is so energized to create a physical manifestation of the image that has been planted in his mind that he runs around his yard like a madman in his bathrobe, tearing out plants, ripping out fencing and throwing it all through the kitchen window of his house. The director also added the ending scene inside the spaceship and threw in a courtesy five-second shot onto the end of the scene of the UFOs flying around the mountain road to show them pausing momentarily and shining their lights on a McDonald's billboard. These two additions again have been removed for this new collector's edition, while the two scenes involving the press conference and Roy gathering yard materials have been restored. One could easily wonder why Spielberg continues to tinker with this movie two decades after its initial release, particularly when the changes simply involve rearranging, inserting and withdrawing the same old scenes as originally shot. It's not as if he has used the advances in technology to incorporate new special effects, as George Lucas did last year with "Star Wars." Movie admittedly dated In fact, Spielberg's Capra-esque (read hopeful) view of alien encounters is probably the most dated and weakest of his pictures because of its focus on the special-effects-laden final encounter. Although that encounter generated enormous awe in 1977, much like the knee-buckling shock of the first view of dinosaurs in "Jurassic Park," it lost much of its surprise appeal after the first viewing and has far less impact now with the advancement of special effects in movies over the last two decades. In a 15-minute "making of" documentary included in the VHS version of the collector's edition (the laserdisc is slated to have a 100-minute documentary on the making of the movie), Spielberg says the movie even dates him personally, as it shows his protagonist Roy choosing to leave his wife and children without even saying goodbye, as he volunteers to go off with the aliens in their spaceship. Spielberg says he could not fathom that now that he has become a husband and father. After all is accounted for, this new collector's edition does restore some of focus back on the human characters rather than the aliens, giving the film more depth. The scene in which Roy becomes so obsessed at his home not only gives justification to his wife taking the kids and leaving him, it also offers some of the movie's best glimpses of humor, heart and humanity. Two other scenes added to the Special Edition that remain in this edition accomplish the same thing: The three-minute, 30-second scene in which Roy tries to convince his kids that the family should go see "Pinocchio" instead of going to the Goofy Golf course, and the scene in which Roy is sitting fully clothed in the bathtub with the shower on, which causes his wife to go into a rage, fearing that her husband has lost control of himself. Steven Spielberg knows exactly what he's doing. (c) 1998, Scott Hettrick. Distributed by Los Angeles Times Syndicate Related sites: Note: Related sites will open in a new browser window. *Internet Movie Database -- "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" *Related Site *Sound off on our message boards & chat =A9 1998 Cable News Network, Inc. A Time Warner Company All Rights Reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 1 Re: Carp Ontario 'Exposed'..... From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 10:25:40 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 10:25:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Carp Ontario 'Exposed'..... >Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 07:28:37 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: xzone@webgate.net [Rob McConnell] >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Carp Ontario 'Exposed'..... >To say I was amused at the response to the J B Michaels book and >the participation of those involved would be an understatement. >But thank-you for randomly selecting me to receive this Update >from your organization. By the way, Toronto UFO Updates is one of >the better UFO mailing lists on the net. Amused? You put out a post about an upcoming radio show citing a book full of nonsense as the basis for a broadcast about the 'truth' of the Carp Case and you're amused? >I feel that the response that was issued was in no way an >embarrassment - but an enlightenment into the total lack of >integrity, professionalism, and credibility of some participants >in the UFO community, and how sensationalism is more important to >them, then the actual truth that they claim to be seeking. Ah, yes. The old 'lack of integrity, professionalism, and credibility'. It's amazing how often that pops-up nowadays. And that nice Mr. Friedman's "Research by proclamation!" quote should probably be included too. Plus reading a few 'good' books. Much integrity, professionalism and credibily in the upcoming 'Special Report of THE CARP ONTARIO AFFAIR - THE TRUTH BEHIND THE HOAX' - no doubt. >If the explanation was so simple - why did it take two weeks for >a response? It would seem that if there was nothing to the book >and it's contents, that the reply issued in response to my >inquiries would have been immediate - but what this two week gap >would lead one to believe that the response took some thinking. Actually, no. Not so much thinking as 'Research'. See, I wasn't involved with Michaels. Tom & others were. I didn't read the _whole_ book - others did. In order to respond I had to elicit the reactions of some of those involved before posting to the planet. Find out the background story. Investigate. Then of course there's the fact that some of those involved have lives that don't revolve around discrediting every damn-fool book. A mass of e-mail can take a mass of time to read. Not everyone has the luxury of spending as much time at their computers as you and I do. As for your "inquiries" - a flat-out 'press-release' style-post is _not_ an enquiry. And it seems that UFO UpDates was not included in your header list of recipients. Perhaps _you_ could have saved yourself those two weeks and the time and energy writing your original post by simply phoning Tom? Why didn't you do that in the first place? Why didn't you send me an e-mail asking about the book? >The fact that Michaels and Tom never met, and that the your reply >basically tells me that the book is fiction, makes me wonder how >many more UFO books, reports and sightings are mere fiction or >attempts by persons within the UFO community to gain through >sensationalism and bring attention to their quest. If anything, >the book and those involved - all levels of participation - have >done more to harm the UFO community than anything else... not to >mention the hard work and dedication that many serious, >responsible and professional people have put into credible >research and investigation. Ah-ha! Tarring "those involved" at "all levels of participation" with the J B Michaels brush? Yourself included? >If the statements that J B Michaels said pertaining to Tom are >incorrect, was there - or has there been any legal litigation in >this matter? An interesting question. Litigation? Whose funding? Across borders? Spending hundreds of hours of already too-little time? Have you investigated the cost and hassle involved in suing someone like Michaels and his publishers across a border? The book _is_ 'out there' and probably would have stayed that way, mostly ignored, had you done your investigative homework and checked with Tom before giving it even more undeserved exposure. >I would like to give Tom the opportunity of coming on our show, >to tell our audience his side of the J B Michaels book during the >Carp Incident show and the arrangements can be made by direct >email to me. We have been trying to contact Mr. Michaels to get >his response but without any success. I've passed your response on to Tom - phone him and extend your invitation. The MUFON Ontario number is still the same as it ever was: 416-249-0933. His home number is 416-675-7138. Perhaps the prospect of encouraging your version of investigative journalism will indeed excite him. >Embarrassed? No. Proud, because as a journalists we have exposed >some more of the sensationalism and lack of integrity and >credibility that runs within certain sectors of the UFO community >that is causing more damage than the alleged government >conspiracies and cover-ups which are believed to be as real as >the aliens and UFO's they are concealing. Ahem. >"The only conspiracy in parapsychology has been created by those >who do not want the world to learn the truth about the unknown, >for then they will not be able to profit from the truth." "There's nothing wrong with being paid for ufological work - provided the research is thorough and conducted to the best of one's ability. Don't do a halfhearted job and call it the truth" "By all means keep an open mind - but not so open that your brains fall out"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 1 Re: UFO-related Audio Files? From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:57:05 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 08:29:02 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO-related Audio Files? >Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 16:31:58 -0700 >From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: UFO-related *.wav or .*.aud-files ne 1 ? >Hello people, >Is there anyone of you who can help me get UFO-related .WAV or >.AUD- files from the net? >I'm espacially interessted in any soundfiles of Art Bell's show >or files concerning the Elders or the mexico-"UFO". >I'd really appreciate it... >Andy Denne Just go into the Art Bell archives and click on the program you wish to hear. When it comes up on Real Audio, you can record it as you listen to it, by plugging a cable to your earphone jack on your CD Rom and the other end to the mic input jacks of the recorder. It is much easier. Mike The fastest way to respond to this message is through the ICQ Network. A message sent this way will go directly to my screen. If you have ICQ you can message me at ICQ#:7508455. If you don't have ICQ you can page me through: My Personal Communication Center: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/7508455 (go there and try it!) Or you can send me a regular e-mail to my EmailExpress address: 7508455@pager.mirabilis.com. Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/ Include your ICQ details in YOUR e-mail signature: http://www.icq.com/emailsig.html. My BBS Telephone Number is: (502) 683-3026 My Fax Number is: (502) 686-7394 My Home Telephone Number is: (502) 683-6811 Michael Christol ----------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 1 Dutch UFO Groups? From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 01:51:07 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 11:23:40 -0400 Subject: Dutch UFO Groups? Dear colleagues, Can anyone help a colleague of mine who is looking for the snail mail addresses of any UFO groups in Holland? Thanks, Philip.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 1 Re: UFO 'Wobble' From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 05:04:24 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 08:30:59 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO 'Wobble' > Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:35:50 -0500 > From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO 'Wobble' > > Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 09:59:49 -0400 > > From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> > > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO 'Wobble' > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > >Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 04:24:19 -0700 > > >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> > > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFO 'Wobble' [was: UPN's 'Danger in our > > Skies'...] > > <snip> > > >On the other hand, the UFOnauts, far from the stern purview of > > >their overseers, may have simply had a few drinks too many. > > .....and some people on this list....have been known to wobble > > as they walk...... > I think Stanton Friedman has a very solemn and distinguished waddle. > ['Wobble', Al. 'Wobble' -- ebk] Ohhhhh ... OK then -- "never mind." <mirthful at getting Bill (and hopefully Stanton) to squirt milk from his nose> Lehmberg@snowhill.com -- Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 1 The People's Rally at AREA 51 in Nevada, 06-06-98 From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 02:58:42 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 11:26:16 -0400 Subject: The People's Rally at AREA 51 in Nevada, 06-06-98 This is an invitation for the press to participate in and cover the up-coming event known as 'The People's Rally at AREA 51 in Nevada'. The rally will take place as svcheduled on Saturday, June 6, l998, right at the restricted boundary line on the Groom Lake Road (in Lincoln County, Nevada), as previously announced world-wide in various internet groups. Crowds of anywhere from 400 to 800 people at the site are expected for the event. This will be the first time that a large number of citizens will assemble right next to AREA 51, the base that officially 'doesn't exist'. This will be a legal, public assembly and will take place on legal, public land. The event is intended to be a spontaneous, peaceful gathering of concerned citizens. There will be speakers at the rally to address several key issues. One of the purposes of the gathering will be to bring to the attention of the news media once again the continuing plight of former Groom Lake workers who are still suffering from illnesses caused by long-term exposure to highly toxic chemicals without their knowledge while working at AREA 51, the base that officially 'doesn't exist'. The former workers and their families' plea is not so much to seek for monetary compensation as to seek for cures to the diseases they now have. According to Norio Hayakawa, founder of a group called the Civilian Intelligence Network (which he describes as a citizens' watchdog group on government oversight), the government (of the USA) has in the past several years concocted, disseminated and manipulated popular theories linking AREA 51 with 'extraterrestrial' UFOs and 'alien' technology in order to discredit any serious scrutiny of this multi-bilion dollar facility and its programs, some of which may be in gross violation of environmental statutes. Hayakawa also speculates that some of the weapons systems research and development at the site not only far exceeds the bounds of national defense interestes but also may serve to promote and accelerate certain 'globalist-elitist' agendas. Quite a number of people may already be camping out overnight on Friday, June 5 at the site. There will be a special news conference in Rachel, Nevada (approximately 21 miles noth of the 'secret base'), the day before the event. Telephone 702 729 2515 for details. The news conference will take place at 12.00 noon. The main event on Saturday, June 6, l998 will take place, beginning at 6.00 am, right at the restricted boundary line of AREA 51. All vehicles are to be parked off Groom Lake Road. Linciln County Sheriff Dept. will not allow any vehicle to be parked on the dirt road for the event. On the evening of June 6, there will be music, etc, in Rachel. Also, early on Sunday morning, June 7, there will be a hike up the ridges of Tikaboo Mountain to observe the Groom Lake (AREA 51) facility. The hike may take about 3 hours. Thank you for your attention. Norio Hayakawa, PO Box 599, Gardena, CA 90248, USA. Tele: 310 784 7705. E-mail: GroomWatch@aol.com PRESS RELEASE DISTRIBUTED BY PHILIP MANTLE OF UFO-LINK: e-mail: el51@dial.pipex.com. Tele: 01924 444049.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 1 Re: Carp Ontario 'Exposed'..... From: xzone@webgate.net [Rob McConnell] Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 07:28:37 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 09:24:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Carp Ontario 'Exposed'..... [The following is posted despite lack of attribution headers and _any_ quotes. It refers to: >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:28:05 -0400 >Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:28:05 -0400 >Subject: Carp Ontario 'Exposed' - The 'Truth' Behind The Hoax available at: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/apr/m30-007.shtml -- ebk] Greetings: To say I was amused at the response to the J B Michaels book and the participation of those involved would be an understatement. But thank-you for randomly selecting me to receive this Update from your organization. By the way, Toronto UFO Updates is one of the better UFO mailing lists on the net. I feel that the response that was issued was in no way an embarrassment - but an enlightenment into the total lack of integrity, professionalism, and credibility of some participants in the UFO community, and how sensationalism is more important to them, then the actual truth that they claim to be seeking. If the explanation was so simple - why did it take two weeks for a response? It would seem that if there was nothing to the book and it's contents, that the reply issued in response to my inquiries would have been immediate - but what this two week gap would lead one to believe that the response took some thinking. The fact that Michaels and Tom never met, and that the your reply basically tells me that the book is fiction, makes me wonder how many more UFO books, reports and sightings are mere fiction or attempts by persons within the UFO community to gain through sensationalism and bring attention to their quest. If anything, the book and those involved - all levels of participation - have done more to harm the UFO community than anything else... not to mention the hard work and dedication that many serious, responsible and professional people have put into credible research and investigation. If the statements that J B Michaels said pertaining to Tom are incorrect, was there - or has there been any legal litigation in this matter? I would like to give Tom the opportunity of coming on our show, to tell our audience his side of the J B Michaels book during the Carp Incident show and the arrangements can be made by direct email to me. We have been trying to contact Mr. Michaels to get his response but without any success. Embarrassed? No. Proud, because as a journalists we have exposed some more of the sensationalism and lack of integrity and credibility that runs within certain sectors of the UFO community that is causing more damage than the alleged government conspiracies and cover-ups which are believed to be as real as the aliens and UFO's they are concealing. By the way, The 'X' Zone Radio Show, starting in June will be live, 2 nights a week ... Saturday and Sunday 10:00 p.m. EDT - Monday morning 1:00 a.m. EDT with a live broadcast that will cover Windsor to Belleville, Ontario.... from the Georgian Bay Area and including the State of New York, Pennsylvania and Michigan. This does not include stations in Canada on the satellite feed system and those who replay the show at other scheduled times during the week. To listen to The 'X' Zone Radio Show on the Internet.... http://www.virtuallycanadian.com "The only conspiracy in parapsychology has been created by those who do not want the world to learn the truth about the unknown, for then they will not be able to profit from the truth." Rob McConnell, Publisher, The 'X' Chronicles, 1996
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 1 Re: Dutch UFO Groups? From: William Birnes <wjb11@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 10:14:53 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 18:45:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Dutch UFO Groups? >Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 01:51:07 +0000 >From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Dutch Ufo Groups? >Dear colleagues, >Can anyone help a colleague of mine who is looking for the snail >mail addresses of any UFO groups in Holland? Phil: I have a contact in the Dutch police homicide department who may be helpful. Please have your friend contact me and I will do what I can. I have to go very slowly, however, because I don't want to to jeapordize any contacts. Bill
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 1 Re: A New Study..... From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Fri, 01 May 98 10:05:49 PDT Fwd Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 18:42:18 -0400 Subject: Re: A New Study..... > Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:15:53 -0400 (EDT) > From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> > Subject: UFOR: A new study (follow up to the Brookings Institute Study) > To: ufopdates@globalserve.net > A New Study: a Follow Up to the Brookings Institution Study > By Francisco Lopez, UFOR Editor > > Sources of our my personal entire confidence I can not name here > as it can endanger them, informed us that... <snip> > According to the source, who did work helping an investigation by > a known and serious UFO researcher (the reason I cannot divulge > the names of the source nor the researcher),... <snip> I truly hope that the day has now arrived when most of us stop reading as soon as "confidential" sources and names "I cannot divulge" well up before our eyes, in support of wild and unlikely claims drenched in paranoia and conspiracy. Nonetheless, I couldn't help myself. I did read the following paragraph because it sounded so strangely familiar: > Some of the scientists had been shown things that changed their > perspective of life and, in almost all cases, greatly disturbed > them emotionally and basically destroyed their personal body of > beliefs and changed their axiology (philosophy of values). > According to the source, they had been shown, from ships to > corpses of aliens. On April 16, 1954, an astral traveler named Gerald Light (aka "Dr. Kappa") wrote occult theorist N. Meade Layne to report his out-of-body observation of scientists observing a crashed and retrieved spacecraft, with occupants, at Edwards AFB in California. Light averred that he had seen "human beings in a state of complete collapse and confusion as they realized that their own world had indeed ended with such finality as to beggar description." See my The Emergence of a Phenomenon, pp. 117-18, for further details. The point is simply this: that whoever made up the story Mr. Lopez is passing on, he cannot be accused of having a creative imagination. Besides being a BS artist, his informant is a plagiarist. It appears that even liars have fallen on hard times. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 1 Dutch UFO Groups? From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl> Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 19:05:14 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 20:03:11 -0400 Subject: Dutch UFO Groups? > Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 01:51:07 +0000 > From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Dutch Ufo Groups? > Dear colleagues, > Can anyone help a colleague of mine who is looking for the snail > mail addresses of any UFO groups in Holland? Hi Phillip, My name's Andy Denne, Abduction & Ufo Research Association and we're located in the Netherlands. A.U.R.A. Van Nispenstraat 2 6521 KL Nijmegen, NL. (31)(24)-3226297 aura.aa@wxs.nl You can of course always message us for more data on Dutch UFO research. Cheers, Andy.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 1 Project Mogul a diversion? From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 07:12:02 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 20:05:40 -0400 Subject: Project Mogul a diversion? Dear All, I'm only marginally interested in Roswell but..... .....in a conversation with a colleague the other day, a guy who has done some real research into man-made flying saucers etc., he told me that during his three year long investigation into these he filed several FOIA requests related to important aspects of the Roswell 'incident'. One of these requests, and I don't understand why this has not emerged before, indicated that the whole question of Project Mogul was not actually discussed until June 1947. Under these circumstances I find it difficult to believe that a Mogul balloon was responsible for the events that took place some four weeks later..... The whole Roswell debate seems to be divided between those who support the alien crash-retrieval fantasy and some hard-nosed skeptics who think that UFO sightings are all explainable, or 'debunkable'. I suggest that it is more likely that a prototype aerial device, possibly related to recovered German advanced technology, strayed from its' home within the White Sands Proving Ground and came down in the manner described by some of the witnesses..... Given that a great deal of information relating to German scientists and Operation Paperclip remains buried (some information emerged in the 1980s) then I think that we have another more sensible solution here that has been killed off by opposing belief systems..... Has anybody ever actually filed FOIA requests on these balloons? Tim Matthews, Lancashire UFO Society/British UFO Studies Centre.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 1 Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> [Tim Matthews] Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 02:13:43 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 19:02:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles Dear Updates, I read with interest the continuing confusion about flying triangles, both large and small. The nonsense talked about this subject is indicative of modern Ufology in that too many people believe (and that is the operative word) that these aircraft are 'alien spaceships'. Lecturing in the UK and talking to people I get the impression that people WANT to believe this ET stuff - without any evidence. Let's look at some solutions...... 1) Large triangular UFOs as LTA (lighter-than-air) hybrid airships. Glorified blimps if you like. Not only did the Aereon Company have these things in mind as early as 1967, but more recently the AF 2025 study undertaken by the Air University of America (with the support and cooperation of many of the major players within the military-industrial complex, see opening pages of report) suggested the use of stealthy airships in order to move huge loads in a hostile environment. The use of an LTA vehicle could be rather a good thing given the use of composites in construction which would significantly reduce the radar signature of the craft (it is not the size of the craft that determines its RCS). Aereon is developing a triangular sensor platform in conjunction with the US Navy. I was told this by the Company Director himself..... What's more the powerplant would enable very quiet operation - has anyone ever seen a relatively normal airship pass overhead? On several occasions I have investigated UFO reports which were in fact misidentifications of airships, both military and commercial. Their near-silent operation was an important factor here.... I have looked into this subject in as much detail as possible and it would seem that Lockheed had a similar proposal in mind in the late 1970s. I need more information on this. However, Michael Waldens' airships in the USA have been saucer-shaped and flown despite a very limited budget for what amounts to a private venture. Some work he undertook for the military back in 1976/77 was classified by the NSA. Just look at a picture of the proposed Aereon 340 and you'll see what I mean. From an entirely psychological point of view imagine the use of such a vehicle by the military - for instance in Hudson Valley during the 1980s. In my forthcoming book I conclude that a similar craft was responsible for the over 5,000 sightings of the boomerang-shaped 'UFO'. If you put powerful lights on the underside of one of these craft it would be easy to confuse ground witnesses. And with the UFO community ready, willing and able to erect an alien smokescreen around such covert activity then the CIA or whomever are laughing themselves to sleep.... 2) Flying triangles as high-speed reconnaissance aircraft. Check out all the reports about possible hypersonic waveriders and tell me what shape they are - wedge-shaped, triangular. dart-shaped. Sound like UFOs? Er.........Yes... 3) Smaller triangles as UAVs - in the UK a great deal of development work has been done on Uninhabited Combat Air Vehicles, especially by British Aerospace. My dogged investigation onto dozens of 'UFO' sightings along the West Coast here resulted in a conclusion that in general there were two types of triangles, an LTA type of between 120-150ft (see above) seen to land at Warton on several occasions at the Special Projects Site (see Jane's 1997/8) and much smaller craft between 30-40ft in length. These are unmanned and we have a number of intercepts of these craft under test in the North Sea. The craft in question, British Aerospace's' stealthy triangular UAV (often referred to as 'HALO', a pretty meaningless term), is called the package both by RAF personnel tasked with secret testing and by military controllers in the Tower at Warton. They have been seen to operate both from Warton and DTEO West Freugh on the SW Scottish coast. Defence Testing and Evaluation Organization is part of the UKs $10 billion a year DERA - Defence Evaluation and Research Agency - based at Farnborough, Hampshire. DTEO is headquartered as RAF Bosconbe Down, the site of several triangular operations since 1990..... I have also spoken to serving RAF personnel who have witnessed test flights. What amazes me is how little interest the UFO community takes in this type of research. It is detailed and we even have generic stealth concepts produced by British Aerospace and GEC-Marconi which show 'future' UAVs exactly the same as those UFOs reported here for the last few years!! In addition to this we have several declassified studies from the 1950s stating that a flying saucer might form the basis of an interceptor aircraft based upon electrostatic propulsion. That was then and no doubt they had problems. What about now 40 years later given billions of dollars of secret funding and the opportunity for scientists to develop new technologies without the usual restraints? I must conclude that given this information, which is but a fraction of the overall evidence, that there is NO evidence that either flying saucers or flying triangles are of ET origin. In any case, both types are for use WITHIN an atmosphere. There may be aliens 'out there' and why not? If they are keeping an eye on us they must be laughing at so-called researchers who have so little imagination and such a tentative grasp on reality that they are unable to see that for over 50 years triangular aircraft have offered a perfect solution in a variety of military situations. The Air Force, CIA, NRO, MOD and NSA all have an interest in these technologies and aircraft. No wonder these ex-military types said to have been involved in MJ-12 type scenarios are so concerned to encourage the public to believe the alien myth rather than the reality of secret military aircraft/military UFOs. There are conspiracies and cover-ups. Maybe Ufology is the biggest of them all...... A question to Ufologists. When is the last time you heard anyone talking about my kind of research at a UFO Conference? If Ufology is no more than a new-age UFO religion could its' adherents please be honest about it instead of pretending to be bona-fide researchers? UFO Conferences, in general, have become more like religious revivals with Genesis beginning in July 1947 whereas UFO publications read more like religious texts than journals of decent investigation. Yours for the truth, Tim Matthews - Lancashire UFO Society, British UFO Studies Centre.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 1 Mach 50 Thunderdart From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 09:27:18 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 20:59:30 -0400 Subject: Mach 50 Thunderdart Dear All, The rumour that the US has a Mach 50 Thunderdart is complete nonsense. The Thunderdart was a Testors model kit. The whole idea makes no sense. Check out the Bill Rose article entitled "America's Secret Spaceships" featured in UFO Magazine (UK) last year if you want some actual facts. Tim Matthews.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 1 Re: HOT GOSSIP UK - MAY 98 From: georgina@easynet.co.uk [Georgina Bruni] Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 21:37:59 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 21:11:35 -0400 Subject: Re: HOT GOSSIP UK - MAY 98 HOT GOSSIP UK MAGAZINE - MAY 1998 www.hotgossip.co.uk Georgina's UFOs & The Unexplained Section http://www.hotgossip.co.uk/unexgoss.html ***************************************************************** THE BENTWATERS/WOODBRIDGE FILE -Picture of Landing Site LARRY WARREN=92s EX GIRLFRIEND SPEAKS OUT -Pictures of Larry & Cookie at RAF Bentwaters 1981. FORTEAN TIMES UNCONVENTION 98 BRITAIN=92S ECCENTRIC FORTEAN THE REMARKABLE COMTE ST GERMAIN - Pictures of Masonic document & Comte St Germain. OH GOD - HAVE WE BEEN CONNED? - Picture of Authors with Bob Rickard ***************************************************************** THE BENTWATERS/WOODBRIDGE FILE ...continued For interested parties I'm continuing the Bentwaters/Woodbridge files and in this issue I'll be featuring a photo of Rendlesham forest (courtesy of Nick Redfern) and photos of Larry Warren taken at Bentwaters with his ex girlfriend Cookie Vaughn, who was also an SP at the bases at the same time as Warren. Larry Warren claims he was a witness to a UFO incident that allegedly occurred in December 1980 at RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge. PHOTO available at: http://www.hotgossip.co.uk/unexgoss.html Rendlesham Forest - the exact spot where the triangular craft was alleged to have landed. Photo:courtesy of NICK REDFERN LARRY WARREN'S EX GIRLFRIEND SPEAKS OUT According to LINDY (COOKIE) VAUGHN, there were many unexplained incidents that occurred at the twin bases of Bentwaters/Woodbridge. Cookie was stationed at the bases during the infamous UFO incident which was reported to have taken place during December 1980. She and LARRY WARREN,an alleged UFO experiencer and co author of LEFT AT EAST GATE, with PETER ROBBINS, were dating for a while, but apparently he never discussed his encounter with her and she wasn't involved in that incident. Cookie and Larry met in Texas, whilst she was still in basic training and he was in tech school. Larry had told her he was going to Bentwaters and she wanted to be stationed in the UK too. Says Cookie "I put on my dream sheet and that's what I got. Bentwaters! Larry and I were both from New York, and we first became friends, then started dating. It was a brief but nice relationship, and we saw London together and enjoyed good conversation." Like Larry Warren, Cookie was a young SP, and for a time she drove a delivery supply truck, working the night shift and travelling between the bases. She claims she saw more than a few unexplained sights, but quit reporting the incidents because she was accused of being an over reactive female, scared of the dark etc.... Explains Cookie. "I'm not afraid of shadows, just some of the things that like to hide in them. I can tell you that what I saw was no lighthouse lights, not any make of Russian, British or American aircraft, and I'm very familiar with birds. What I saw was nothing that I was familiar with. What you must understand is that the famous incident is only a fraction, a bit of time out of a long history in that part of the world." "I got the impression that someone was watching us. Several times I saw a bright silent craft and each time I saw it, it would separate into three, maybe five other smaller crafts - and I do mean that they were silent. Not only would I not hear it, but I wouldn't hear the normal sounds of animals and birds until it/they were gone, and then on a couple of occasions the dogs would create a stir. I got the strongest impression that the locals also saw these sights on a regular basis, and just accepted it. I would feel a presence so far beyond my own. It was always a feeling of awe, not fright. I didn't feel danger - just anticipation. You must go and visit there, walk the area, spend some time - night and day and get the feeling of the place." Cookie says she has heard about Larry Warren's book LEFT AT EAST GATE, but she hasn't read it. She kindly sent these photographs of Larry Warren and herself taken at Bentwaters. Thanks Cookie for sharing this with us. PHOTOS: available at: http://www.hotgossip.co.uk/unexgoss.html A Young Larry Warren with girlfriend Cookie Vaughn in her dorm at Bentwaters '81 Cookie and Larry Warren (in uniform) Bentwaters 1981 FORTEAN TIMES UNCONVENTION 98 On April 25/26 BOB RICKARD and PAUL SIEVEKING, both editors of the famed FORTEAN TIMES magazine, presented the fifth annual UNCONVENTION at the University of London Union. The event was a great success and most sessions were full to capacity. Guests speakers included: Mark Chorvinsky (Encounters with the Grim Reapers) Ted Harrison (The Elvis Cult) Jean la Fontaine (Chasing Satanists) Robin Ramsay (How Competent Are Conspirators) Jenny Randles (Men In Black) Sean Tudor (The Blue Bell Hauntings) Neil Nixon (Conspiracy) Jonathan Downes & Graham Inglis (The Chupacabras Hunt) David V Bennet (Myths & Lies) Col Blashford Snell (Mammoth Hunt) Mike Dash (Strange Phenomena) Ian Simmons (The Diana Conspiracies) Jan Bondeson (The Fish Boy & The Cat Woman) Dr Jack Cohen (Dragons & Figments of Reality) Damian Thompson (Conspiracies and the year 2000) Steve Wilson (Witchcraft) Richard Freeman (Dragons) Peter Brookesmith (Martians,Cats & Purple Hieroglyphics) Doug Skinner (Comte St Germain) A wonderful collection of Guest Speakers. But in my opinion, the highlights of the weekend were talks by TV personality Lionel Fanthorpe, Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince. BRITAIN'S ECCENTRIC FORTEAN Heading for the Green Room I bumped into the jolly REVEREND LIONEL FANTHORPE and his delightfully charming wife PATRICIA. "I'm not exactly a Reverend" said Lionel "I just look after a church." Most people will know him for hosting the popular Channel Four TV show FORTEAN TV, or for dashing around the country on his motor bike. Patricia assures me that she always travels with her celebrity husband. "What! On the back of the bike" I ask. "Most of the time I do" she says with a glint in her eye. Meanwhile, Lionel hands me a signed photograph of Patricia and himself seated on his precious motor bike. Unfortunately I can't use the picture here as it's copyright. Anyway, Lionel's talk was a hoot and he certainly had the audience going with his professional and entertaining presentation. THE REMARKABLE COMTE ST GERMAIN On a more serious note, one session that really caught my eye was Doug Skinner's presentation of the mysterious Comte (Count in English) St Germain. The stories surrounding the life of this remarkable man have always intrigued me, so off I headed to hear what Mr Skinner had to say about him. Like the mysterious Count, DOUG SKINNER - an American who hails from New York city - is a man of many talents - a freelance journalist, performer, musician, actor and writer. Apart from researching unexplained phenomena, he has an interest in eighteenth century history, and his desire to explore the Comte St Germain saga was due to the latter, plus the fact that he has a French wife and speaks the language fluently. Says Doug " I'm interested in how a mystery can turn into a legend." So who was the COMTE ST GERMAIN - this mysterious figure of a man who appeared to have numerous identities, and who, it is said, popped up throughout history and may have lived far beyond a normal lifetime (1710 - 1822). A man who was well received in most of the Royal courts of Europe, and who was known for his kindness to people and animals. According to Doug Skinner the story may be mostly myth born out of the confusion that there were more than just one 'St Germain' around at the time, and that the Comte himself was notorious for using pseudonyms. Whatever the case, there are countless letters (The Mitchell Papers) that have mention of his extraordinary powers, and he was known to be an alchemist of great merit. It was reported that he never consumed food or drank wine (Doug Skinner says he did eat, but these were some kind of grains) and that he appeared forever young, often materialising after several decades - still looking the same age - if not younger . My own interest in the Comte began many years ago, and this was rekindled in 1993 when DENNIS BARDENS, the well known occult author, generously presented me with the original book (1911) written by I COOPER OAKLEY - titled - THE COMTE DE ST GERMAIN. I would spend endless hours taking afternoon tea in dusty traditional clubs such as the Travellers in Pall Mall, listening to Dennis tell stories of the occult and his own meetings with famous/infamous occultists. Dennis is over eighty years old now, but can still tell a fascinating story - and there's not much that he doesn't know about the occult and secret societies. As a Master Mason himself, I remember him telling me about the Knights Templars, and of course the Comte St Germain was alleged to have been a Mason and a Templar. However, there is no mention of the Comte in any modern Masonic literature, and much effort seems to have gone into eliminating his name from any connection with the society. Fortunately, Cooper Oakley managed to do careful research and discovered a document in the Masonic archives that proves Comte St Germain was a selected representative of the French Masons at their great convention in Paris 1785. (See document below). PICTURE OF MASONIC DOCUMENT - NOTE THE NAMES Available at: http://www.hotgossip.co.uk/unexgoss.html It's interesting to note that included in the list of names is that of MESMER and CALIOSTRO, who were both alleged to have been guided by the Comte. Oakley informs us that the same category of names, but with more detail, was given by N. Deschamps in Les Societes Secrets et la Societe, ou Philosophie de l'Histoire Contemporaine ii, 121 (Paris 1881). Here, Descamps speaks of St Germain as being one of the Templars, and there is an account of the initiation of Cagliostro by Comte St Germain, and the ritual used on this occasion was said to have been that of the Knights Templars. We learn that shortly after the initiation of Cagliostro, a group of Jesuits accused St Germain and other Templars of wild and disgraceful behavior. The charges were levelled at the Philaletheans (Rite des Philaletes ou Chercheurs de la Verite) founded in 1773 in the Masonic Lodge of Les Amis - Reunis and were investigated and rejected as worthless. Not only was the Comte a Mason and a Knights Templar, but according to some sources, he was also a true Rosicrucian. The only known picture of the Comte St Germain is a copper plate engraving that was in the d Urfe collection in 1783. The inscription beneath the picture translated to "The Comte de St Germain, celebrated Alchemist " PICTURE OF THE COMTE : Available at: http://www.hotgossip.co.uk/unexgoss.html Apart from his more down to earth talents if you can call them that, he was also valued as an oracle. Oakley managed to acquire a translation of the four rare volumes of the "Souvenirs de MARIE ANTIONETTE" authored by COUNTESS d' ADHEMAR, an intimate friend of the Queen. It appears that Comte St Germain warned Marie Antionette of the coming danger of the French Revolution urging her to take heed of a great conspiracy being formed that would result in her approaching sad fate. He warned her that CASSANDRA foretold the ruin of Troy, but they refused to believe him. "I am Cassandra! France is the Kingdom of Priam!" stated St Germain. Doug Skinner is not convinced! He says that the sources proclaiming St Germain a mystic, were followers of the Theosophical Society, and were probably keen to promote the master/mystic theory. I cannot agree. The Comte St Germain story may well have been embroidered by the drawing room gossip of the period, and not forgetting the peculiar antics of Englishman, MILORD GOWER who found it amusing at society bashes to pass himself off as St Germain. But there still remains much evidence (documents, letters and music scores) that some extraordinary philosopher entered the lives of many prominent people of the day, and that this person had a profound effect on their lives. Some of the MS can be viewed in the British Library and rumour has it that PRINCE CHARLES has original letters from the Comte which are housed in the Prince's library. There's much more to this story that is impossible to write up in a brief article, but whatever the truth may be surrounding this most colourful character - it's a wonderfully romantic story, and thanks to Doug Skinner for keeping it alive, albeit that he hasn't presented a really valuable case against the numerous documents available. Probably the best part of Doug's presentation was when he sang one of Comte St Germain's ballads accompanied by an attractive musician. OH GOD - HAVE WE BEEN CONNED? By far the most interesting session I sat through at the Fortean Times Unconvention, was the talk by LYNN PICKNETT and CLIVE PRINCE. Whilst Clive is the shy silent type, he is an extremely dedicated researcher (as is Lynn) and he explains in great detail the work they have both done. Lynn, on the other hand is a natural speaker who takes the floor with gusto. This particular talk related to their best selling book THE TEMPLAR REVELATION. The authors claim that St JOHN THE BAPTIST was a more important figure than JESUS CHRIST. Admittedly, the claims may be totally unacceptable to Christians, but there appears to be an amazing amount of evidence to prove that St John was a prominent personage, and Jesus was not. Lynn doesn't beat about the bush, but announces boldly "The New Testament is propaganda for the Jesus Party!" Possibly instrumental in discreetly bringing attention to this alleged conspiracy is none other than the famous Italian, LEONARDO da VINCI. Clive and Lynn's research has uncovered something we all failed to notice - that the person sitting next to Jesus in da Vinci's famous painting THE LAST SUPPER is probably not John at all, but a woman.The figure, wearing mirror image attire to that of Jesus, definitely has breasts and is wearing a golden necklace. The hands are gracefully feminine and the facial features - elfin. Even more interesting is the upright forefinger aggressively pointing to the Redeemer's face. Since discovering this, Lynn and Clive have found other paintings that also show pointing fingers - these gestures appear to be connected in some way with St John and the authors refer to them as "the John gestures". The same also appears in RAFAEL's painting THE SCHOOL OF ATHENS which shows PLATO exhibiting the sign., and apparently Leonardo was the model for Plato. Again it crops up in Leonardo's unfinished work ADORATION OF THE MAGI. Their research also reveals that Leonardo was a rather odd man who's own story is full of paradoxes. They write 'What we are looking at in THE LAST SUPPER and his other works is the secret code (subliminal images) of Leonardo da Vinci.' There are other examples shown in the paintings but one really has to read the book - over 400 pages - to get the full story. It's also a futile attempt for me to try to explain the authors' findings in such a short space, but I promise you it's a fascinating read of conspiracy that does a remarkable job of knocking down the Church's claims that JC was who he's alleged to have been. It's no wonder that the media and national newspapers find it too controversial. Says Lynn "The writers of the New Testament have misrepresented John the Baptist. He, not Jesus, was the one with a huge following and on his death SIMON MAGNUS was supposed to have been his successor." THE TEMPLAR REVELATION (Banton Books) by Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince attempts to unravel a web of conspiracies linking the Knights Templars, Masons Christianity and other sects. Were the Templars the secret guardians of the true identity of Christ? Read the book! PHOTO: Bob Rickard, Lynn Picknett & Clive Prince Available at: http://www.hotgossip.co.uk/unexgoss.html ***************************************************************** Permission to distribute text providing the authors and publication are credited. Photographs may be copyright and cannot be used without consent. =A9 Hot Gossip UK 1998 www.hotgossip.co.uk The above text is taken from "The Unexplained" section at: http://www.hotgossip.co.uk/unexgoss.html Georgina Bruni: Editor-chief Hot Gossip UK Magazine. Published by Camelot International Ltd. E-mail: georgina@easynet.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 1 Nua Blather: How to Survive the UnConvention From: Dave Walsh <dave@nua.ie> Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 16:43:11 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 20:25:02 -0400 Subject: Nua Blather: How to Survive the UnConvention ******************************************************************* NUA BLATHER NUA BLATHER NUA BLATHER Weekly free email of Dogma Destruction, Forteana and High Weirdness By Daev Walsh Email: blather@nua.ie Web: http://www.nua.ie/blather/ ***************************************************************** May 1 1998 Published By: Nua Limited Vol 1. No. 51 ***************************************************************** HOW TO SURVIVE THE UNCONVENTION After surviving an evening of subconsciously premeditated alcoholic beverage consumption at what has become known as the UnDrinking, the morning of Saturday 25th of April saw some ragged Blatherskites staggering through the foyer of the University of London Union, en route to the Fortean Times UnConvention 98. This report was compiled with this week's Blather guests, Barry Kavanagh and Mark Pilkington. . . DEATH IN 101 [1100 ROOM 101] The Dublin contingent headed straight for room 101 (http://www.snark.com/room101/background.html), where FT's Bob Rickard initiated the proceedings. He introduced *Strange Magazine's* (http://www.strangemag.com/) Mark Chorvinsky, who imbued us with stories of Grim Reaper visitations [also see Strange No.18]. This topic -- which some readers may find to be a rather odd topic, even for forteans -- seems to have had quite an effect on attendees. Chorvinsky identified several cases where dying people were seen to interact with an invisible, personified 'death', witnesses *close* to death meeting the Reaper (either driving it away or talking it out of taking them, thus surviving), and doctors or nurses witnessing the Reaper waiting beside the dying. Also mentioned was Sidney Reilly, the 'Ace of Spies', who allegedly had a grim reaper experience before his death in 1925, according to his wife of the time, Pepita Bobadilla. Chorvinsky succeeded in bringing home the reality of a previously ignored fortean phenomenon -- as yet unexploited by the mainstream media -- yet quite different to the stereotyped portrayal of the Grim Reaper as a visitor with murderous intent. Some of the fictional examples he used included scenes from *The Meaning of Life*, *The Seventh Seal*, *The Frighteners* and *The Adventures of Baron Munchausen*. Surprisingly the extremely popular female *Death* character from Neil Gaiman's *The Sandman* wasn't mentioned (http://emporium.turnpike.net/Z/zen/Death.html). [DW] [Meanwhile, Mark Pilkington was upstairs. . .] DEAD ELVIS [1100 UPPER HALL] Kicking things off on Saturday morning was Ted Harrison's hilarious exploration of Elvis as a religious phenomena. A message written on the crooning wall of Graceland says it all: "Coming home from Lubbock I thought I saw Elvis on the plane, but it might have been Jesus, they kind of look the same." Amongst other things, the talk covered post-mortem visions and miraculous healings performed by the king, Elvis as an alien soul trapped in human form, how Elvis modelled his rhinestone eagle jumpsuit on the gown of Aaron (Elvis' middle name)in the Bible, and the role of antichrist - in the guise of Michael Jackson - in the eternal battle on earth. Harrison raised important points about the process of secular beautification and wondered how long it would be before we saw the first church of Diana. [MP] DEAD JEREMY [1200] Quite deliberately bowing out of Rev. Lionel Fanthorpe's performance to attend Jean la Fontaine's *Chasing Satanists* (http://www.informinc.co.uk/LM/LM75/LM75_Taboos.html), Blatherboy was disappointed to find that incredibly, only an hour into the UnCon, the Upper Hall was crammed full, so a trip to the Press/Media room was in order, before bunking off, thanks to Alison Clayton, around the corner to see the mummified Jeremy Bentham (http://www.philosophy.ohio-state.edu/bentham.html), founder of the University of London. [DW] DEAD COMPETENT [1300 Upper Hall] Robin Ramsay, editor of the political conspiracy journal *Lobster* (http://www.knowledge.co.uk/xxx/lobster/), gave a talk entitled *How Competent Are Conspirators?* At first he seemed bewildered that he was actually giving the talk, then he glided into an entertaining demolition of the myth of the government conspiracy uncovered by 'the ordinary Joe.' He explained how conspiracies go on discreetly in the public view (like the British American Project) but are ignored by the media. As for competency, he pointed out how every government in the world has a paid intelligence agency and we rarely get to find out what they do, especially at the time they're doing it. [BK] DEAD BORING [1400 ROOM 101] I'm sorry to report that I was incredibly bored by the droning of Sean Tudor talking about the Blue Bell Hill Ghost. Now, don't get me wrong, I think it's a fascinating case, but Tudor's delivery left a lot to be desired -- as did the sound quality. It was only due to my being familiar with the case from his intriguing *Fortean Times* article that I could attempt to make some sense of the monotonic high-speed lecture, and after half an hour during which I learned nothing new, I departed. Lisa Coffey [one of the Dublin contingent] later told me that Tudor had looped back to 'set the the scene' some three-quarters of the way through his talk. Appalling. [DW] (http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/square/ee65/investigations/bluebell.htm) (http://www.forteantimes.com/artic/104/belles.html) DEAD? MAYBE NOT [1500 UPPER HALL] Surely one of Saturday's highlights was the wonderful Doug Skinner's talk on the *Count(s) of St. Germain*. To be brief (see URLs below), the count, a.k.a. the Wundermann and the Immortal One, was a character reportedly to have been around for several centuries -- in fact, it was claimed that he was immortal. At the time, there seems to have been surprisingly scant information put forward to contradict these claims, as reports of the Comte have surfaced from Venice in 1710 (when he was reported to look about fifty years old) through various royal courts of the 18th and 19th centuries, and he was apparently encountered strolling down Rome's Corso in 1925. A certain Richard Chanfray turned lead into gold for French TV cameras in 1972, claiming that *he* was the Comte. St. Germain's background(s) were said to be hazy, his tastes eclectic, and his skills verging on that of a polymath. He was reportedly an accomplished violinist, an inventor, traveller and Freemason and died - or faked death several times. One of his incarnations claimed to have also been Francis Bacon and Christian Rosencreuz, and to have met Jesus. To make matters worse, it's thought that St. Germain went under pseudonyms, such as 'General Welldone' whilst serving under Catherine the Great of Russia. Skinner made a great fist of exploring the fascinating possibilities of who the Count -- or Counts really were - Casanova and Cagliostro were named, along with a host of other men by the name of St. Germain, and a few wannabe copyists too. There was talk of St. Germain being none other than the son of Franz-Leopold, Prince Ragoczy of Transylvania. Skinner's finale was a two-song rendition of St. Germain's alleged musical works, with cello accompaniment. . . Skinner is right, the tale of St. Germain is a character so compellingly attractive as to instil desire towards *being* the Count. Who knows, perhaps Doug Skinner may be the current St. Germain. . .[DW] http://dragon-tsunami.org/~lemieux/History/St.Germain.html http://www.prs.org/books/book205.htm http://www.users.cloud9.net/~patrick/anomalist/CONTRIB.HTM#Doug_Skinner [See also Douglas Chapman's piece in Strange 19] DEAD CHICKENS [1600 ROOM 101] After Skinner, a race downstairs to Room 101 was in order, to catch Jon Downes and Graham Inglis of the Centre for Fortean Zoology, to hear their tales of drunken rampages across Miami, Puerto Rico and Mexico in search of the Chupacabras, described by a CFZ member as 'a cross between a kangaroo and Sonic the Hedgehog on acid'. We didn't learn much more about the alleged beastie, but were entertained anyway. A full account of their adventures can be found at the CFZ website, in an essay titled *Only Fools and Goatsuckers* (http://www.eclipse.co.uk/cfz/cxchupa.shtml), and they can be seen on Channel 4 TV here in Britain and Ireland on Monday 4th May at 1900 (http://www.channel4.co.uk/listings/listings.cgi?program=894304800). [DW] DEAD SILLY [1700 ROOM 101] Next up, this Blathergoon managed to get himself drafted in as rhythm guitarist for the impromptu air guitar act *Alien Spawn*, to accompany the enigmatic Peter Brookesmith's blatherings *Of Martian Cats & Purple Hieroglyphics*. Before crawling on to the stage of Room 101, Joe McNally of *Fortean Times* compared the consequences of *not* going through with this craziness -- i.e., the not knowing -- with the reality of never being able to live it down if we did. Needless to say, five minutes later he was up there, playing an invisible bass, whilst John Rimmer (Magonia http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk) and Rob Irving (International Man of Mystery) doubled up on drums. Mad-axeman Mark Pilkington went hell-for-leather on a virtual guitar, whilst this writer threw sanity to the four winds, St. Vitus dancing in front of several hundred bemused delegates to various blues and jazz tunes. When Peregrine Mendoza started rooting in a couple of carrier bags, I prayed that he didn't have eggs for the throwing. Later on, I discovered that the bag contained goose eggs. . . Unfortunately, I don't think the remainder of 'Martian Cats & Purple Hieroglyphics' went down too well, in fact,I saw few folks tearing out, unable to handle the relatively academic content of the lecture. It definitely wasn't what the UFO fans wanted (Apparently, a certain Nick Pope was looking a bit queasy http://www.ufomind.com/people/p/pope/). I do recommend reading the online version of 'Martian Cats', as it's an intriguing document on the motifs apparent throughout UFO literature (http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/aug/m10-011.shtml). [DW] DEAD CULTISH [1700 Upper Hall] David V Barrett, author of two excellent books - *Sects 'Cults' and Alternative Religions - A Worldwide Survey and Sourcebook* (ISBN: 0713725672) and *Secret Societies, from the Ancient and Arcane to the Modern and Clandestine* (ISBN: 0713726474), and currently researching the influence of science fiction on fringe religions, gave his talk on *Myths and Lies and the Need to Believe*. Much of it was rehash of points made in the above books but Barrett did cover some new ground here. Unfortunately, that was the most uninteresting ground of all: the death of the Princess of Wales. He was worried by the way her myth was created by the media - but personally I shrug: myths and lies about Diana are not as serious as, say, myths and lies about Jewish people. On this general point, read Barrett's books which show how the Family (ex-Children of God), Freemasons and others have been and still are wrongly portrayed. [BK] Tune in next week for coverage of the second day of UnCon 98 -- if any readers have comments to pass Saturday's talks by Fanthorpe, la Fontaine, Randles, Nixon, Picknett & Prince, and Cockell, feel free to share them with us. A few little controversies have erupted on Blabber over some of Blather's calendric statements, and last week's poltergeist report -- get the boot in now! http://www.nua.ie/blather/blabber Here's hoping you survived Walpurgis Night. . . (http://www.dnh.mv.com/ipusers/walpurgis/walpinfo.html) Dave (daev) Walsh (blather@nua.ie) Mark Pilkington (m.pilkington@virgin.net) Barry Kavanagh (barryk@connect.ie) May 1st 1998 Feedback and comments to <blather@nua.ie> Have your say: http://www.nua.ie/blather/blabber ******************************************************************* NUA INTERNET SURVEYS A weekly newsletter, Internet Surveys is a free digest of the most interesting surveys containing data relating to the Internet. It is available by sending an email to <surveys-request@lists.best.com> with the word "subscribe" in the body of the message. NUA WHAT'S NEW A monthly newsletter, What's New is a free monthly newsletter highlighting the new additions, happenings and changes at Nua. It is available by sending an email to <whatsnew-requestlists.best.com> with the word "subscribe" in the body of the message. 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The Emerging Digital Economy: http://www.ecommerce.gov/emerging.htm Nua's How Many Online: http://www.nua.net/surveys/how_many_online/index.html Nua Internet Surveys: http://www.nua.ie/surveys ***************************************************************** NUA LIMITED Nua, a vibrant, innovative, Irish company whose focus is in helping progressive organisations adapt to the new environment created by the Internet. We have the management/marketing, design and technical skills to truly understand your unique situation, and to translate that understanding into a successful Internet presence for you. Nua has received an array of awards since its genesis in 1996. Among those are the coveted "Best Overall World Wide Web Business Achievement" the top prize for website development in Europe. http://www.nua.ie/about/review.html SUBSCRIBING TO BLATHER Send an email to: <blather-request@lists.best.com> with the word subscribe in the body of the message. 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UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 1 Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 18:28:12 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 22:06:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles > From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> [Tim Matthews] > To: <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Urgent - Talking Sense About Flying Triangles > Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 02:13:43 +0100 > Dear Updates, > I read with interest the continuing confusion about flying > triangles, both large and small. The nonsense talked about this > subject is indicative of modern Ufology in that too many people > believe (and that is the operative word) that these aircraft are > 'alien spaceships'. <extremely generous snip> You are incredibly rude! And if you knew much about current ufology you'd realize that probably MOST UFO watchers today believe that these triangles are "ours" rather than "theirs," that's if the scuttlebutt on the Internet is representative of the collective UFO community. I don't know which they are, but this is extremely well-trodden ground, to say the least. Or, as we say in California -- Duh! -- Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> ICQ Pager 6797092
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 1 Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles From: Xxyyxx <Xxyyxx@aol.com> Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 21:10:14 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 22:02:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> [Tim Matthews] >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Urgent - Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 02:13:43 +0100 >Dear Updates, >I read with interest the continuing confusion about flying >triangles, both large and small. The nonsense talked about this >subject is indicative of modern Ufology in that too many people >believe (and that is the operative word) that these aircraft are >'alien spaceships'. <snip> One of the best UpDates I've ever read.. Have you written a book? Do you have an internet site? dave bauer (WA2YAS)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 1 PHENOMENON # 7 - part 2 From: Bob <bob.t@mindspring.com> [Bob Tidwell] Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 18:55:14 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 21:58:06 -0400 Subject: PHENOMENON # 7 - part 2 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> PHENOMENON E-Mail Newsletter A Forum for the # 7 - Part 2 Strangeness Around us May 1, 1998 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Part 2 *** The Alabama Files ~ ~ A Secret Holographic Project? (continued) *** The PHENOMENON eMail Box *** Newsletter Guidelines <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> A Secret Holographic Project? ********************************** (continued) One of Redstone Arsenal's unstated missions was to research and develop the technology that had been recovered from Germany after the war, especially that which related to rocket science. One of the major concerns of the U.S. was that Russia also had access to German technology, and would one day be able to place a military weapons device into space orbit, thus placing the U.S. in great jeopardy. In September 1954 Dr. von Braun wrote a thesis proposing the use of existing Army rocket components that had been developed at Redstone Arsenal to place an artificial satellite into orbit. The project would use a REDSTONE missile as the primary booster and three LOKI rockets as upper stages. This plan expanded into a joint Army-Navy proposal that was named Project ORBITER. Higher authorities though decided in 1955 to pursue a plan based on the Navy's VIKING missile - Project VANGUARD. With the establishment of ABMA at Redstone in February 1956, the Army had all of the personnel and elements readily at hand to place a satellite into orbit. In April 1956 the Army advised the Department of Defense that their JUPITER C missile could accomplish this task within the next 6 to 7 months. In May the DOD gave notice to the Army that they were not to use any of their JUPITER or REDSTONE programs as the basis for an orbital launch vehicle. On 20 September 1956 the Army flight tested a JUPITER C, which flew 3,355 miles and attained an altitude of 682 miles. Had permission been granted from the DOD this very test flight could have easily put its fourth stage into orbit, but the Army was under strict orders not to use a fully powered fourth stage. Remember that this was more than a year before Russia successfully launched SPUTNIK I in October 1957. The ABMA again asked permission to attempt orbital insertion, and were again told to refrain from any efforts in this area. There were rumors in the scientific community at the time that the Army was pursuing an unauthorized satellite project. Because of these rumors, the Secretary of Defense gave the Army a direct order to refrain from any space activity. [It appears to me that the Department of Defense was purposefully holding back, and wanted Russia to be the first to place an artificial satellite into orbit. This could have been done to better evaluate Russia's current state of rocket development, or even as a means of frightening the American public into funding a major space program.] After Russia's successful launch of Sputnik I on 4 October 1957, the Army was finally given approval, and only 84 days later successfully launched Explorer I from the AOMC/ABMA facilities at Cape Canaveral. [The Vanguard Project was experiencing repeated failures, and their attempt to launch a satellite ended on 6 December when the rocket exploded into flames on the launch pad.] ABMA was also able to place three more explorer satellites into orbit by July 1958, but ABMA's hopes of becoming a major participant in the space race was soon to come to an end. The Government had decided that the Nation's space program could best be handled by a single agency, and that it should be a civilian organization, not a military one. Within the next few years, all space related programs would be turned over to the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, although ABMA would be assigned to develop eight REDSTONE-type launch vehicles for the manned Mercury Program. Redstone Arsenal's history is very extensive, and I've only covered a very small part of the events that had happened to this point. Redstone's history from 1960 to the present is even more extensive, and I won't attempt to go into any more detail other than to say that this installation has continued to assist with NASA's space program, and also with all types of exotic weapons systems, including Starwars-type particle beam devices. At this point I would like to give my friend's story, and attempt to link it to a Redstone project to project virtual holographic images. Sometime during the summer of 1983, my friend was dispatched to Redstone Arsenal to install some special communications equipment for a communications contractor. He had a map of the arsenal, but the address on the work order was not on the map, so he asked for directions from a Military Police guard post. He was immediately asked why he needed to know, and the nature of his business in that area. The MPs drew him a map to find this location. He had worked on the arsenal for about eight years and had never heard of this particular site. In order to reach this location, he had to go through two check points. (Redstone is not presently a secure installation, although certain sensitive sections are secure.) Each check point thoroughly checked his truck and work order. The MPs also used mirrors to look under his truck, and his name was entered into a database to verify that he was authorized to enter this area. As he proceeded through the last check point, he noticed a sign that read "WARNING - MINED AREA." There was only the one road in, and signs warned him that both sides of the road were mined. There was also a ten-foot tall fence along both sides of this road. He followed the road up the side of a mountain, and at the top was once again throughly checked by the MPs. These MPs directed him to the location on the work order. Once he entered the correct building he found that he was able to move around freely and unescorted. After installing the new communications equipment, he noticed that some technicians in the next room appeared to be conducting some sort of laser testing. This greatly interested my friend, as he is an amateur inventor who is constantly coming up with all types of new inventions. He pretended to need access to this room in order to make some wiring rearrangements. Once inside, the scientists were very friendly. Being an inventor, he picks up new ideas very easily, and soon had the scientists engaged in conversation. He told them that he had done a project on lasers in school, but had never actually seen one being tested. They told him that "this is your lucky day", and handed him a pair of goggles to put on. They then fired one of their lasers straight ahead to a mirror which reflected the beam at a 90 degree angle to a target on the other side of the room. The scientists informed him that they were working on a project that would have the capability of bouncing lasers off satellites for military purposes. My friend pretended that he didn't understand, so they told him that their lasers were powerful enough to disable a target anywhere within the range of the satellite's mirrors, and were precise enough to locate and vaporize a single selected person. He told me that as he left the building and returned to his truck, "my hands were shaking." As he sat in his truck and carefully looked around, he noticed several test sites that were setup outside. He also saw a huge mirror that was mounted on a motorized stand, and was aimed up towards the sky. He admitted to me that he has talked to several people that have retired from Redstone Arsenal, and who worked on numerous projects, but has been unable to find someone that will admit to knowing anything about this site. I myself happened to be in Huntsville a few years ago, and struck up a conversation with a gentleman while shopping in a local bookstore. During the conversation, he told me that he was a scientist, and worked at the Redstone complex. Remembering my friend's story, I managed to matter-of-factly mention the laser project that my friend had described. He looked surprised, and then said "so you know about that eh." He then said, with a gleam in his eye of someone that might have been involved on such a project, " we can put an image of an oak tree in a field, and you wouldn't be able to tell that it wasn't real until you walked over and tried to touch it." He said that the process involved special lasers, satellites and mirrors. He wouldn't comment any more after that and changed the subject to something else. I had filed this information away in my records, to be checked into later, and was reminded about it after reading the discussions concerning the Mexico video. Was my friend told the truth about the laser test site (or all of the truth), or were the scientists just putting him on. He is one of the most intelligent persons that I know, and he didn't feel that they were having fun with him. Besides, there is also the information that I received from the gentleman in the bookstore. I had no way of verifying this information, but my friend was suggesting to me that the object that he saw could also have been a projected image, so I decided to check further. Redstone Arsenal is currently known as the U. S. Army Aviation and Missile Command - AMCOM. The name Redstone Arsenal hasn't been an official designated name for a good many years, but has stuck as a geographical name, and everyone still refers to this installation as the Redstone Arsenal. Its even known by that name on official civilian and military maps of the area. I started my investigation by looking for any AMCOM projects that might lead to what I was looking for. After looking through all of the many many projects currently being developed at AMCOM, I just about ready to give up when I found the Missile Research, Development, and Engineering Center, under the Weapons Sciences Directorate. To my great amazement, I soon found what I was looking for on their web site at: Http://www.mrdec.redstone.army.mil/ MRDEC's missions include; "...provide broadbased expertise as related to missile, laser, and beam weaponry"; "Coordinate, monitor, and evaluate the developing technologies for high energy lasers."; "Evaluate the effect of lasers, microwaves, and other beams on AMCOM weapons"; and "Conduct unconventional beam weapons design and analysis."This research division also interacts with the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency - DARPA, who appears to be providing the funding. I found the most useful information in MRDEC's Photonics & Laser Sciences division. There are references to; atom mirrors; atom lasers; quantum optics; resonator wave optics theory; polarized laser fields; "stabilization of atoms and molecules in intense laser fields"; "3-D stopband for wave propagation in all directions... providing an omni-directional, lossless, reflective material"; "...development of concepts for ultra-light, ultra-compact optical devices ... novel concept for a laser linear accelerator particle beam device"; "cooperative phenomena, and others not yet named"???; ...applied research on linear and nonlinear optical materials and characterize laser field interactions with such materials"; "laser field-induced quantum coherence phenomena and control for novel laser devices"; and last, but not least - holography. Ok, so they do research and development with lasers and holography, and they have a site with mirrors that direct these special beams up into the sky. They would also need a special satellite to redirect the beams to the imaging location. This is where things really begin to get interesting! Let's go back to our Redstone Arsenal history and see how NASA could also be involved in a holographic projection project. After the creation of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration in 1958, the military had to turn over control of Cape Canaveral, along with Redstone and ABMA's control of White Sands and JPL. In 1960 AOMC/ABMA lost all of its space-related missions along with 4,000 civilian employees, and $100 million worth of buildings and equipment at Redstone and Cape Canaveral. [NASA was in actuality an offshoot of the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA), which was founded in 1915.] The interesting part of this is that the Redstone employees didn't have very far to go to perform their new jobs for NASA, in fact, they didn't go anywhere at all. The government transferred 1,800 acres in the center of Redstone Arsenal to NASA, named it the Marshall Space Flight Center, and installed Dr. Wernher von Braun as the first director. Marshall is surrounded on all sides by the Redstone Arsenal complex. This installation is still today one of the largest and most important research and development centers that belong to NASA. Marshall's projects include; the Lunar Roving Vehicle; the United States' first crewed orbiting space station; and the Hubble Space Telescope, just name a few. (There are many many more) With the marriage of these two installations, civilian and military, since 1960, you can imagine all kinds of secret projects that might be involved. After my luck with Redstone, I decided to take a look at Marshall, and see if I could find a project that might complement what I had found at the AMCOM/Redstone site. What I found was NASA's Laser Geodynamic Satellite - LAGEOS. It seems that NASA teamed up with the Smithsonian Institution in 1974 with a project designed to "detect small movements in the Earth's crust, polar motion, and precise locations of various spots on earth." The LAGEOS satellite was nicknamed the "cosmic golf ball", since it was covered with prismatic-like mirrors, and was launched from Vandenberg Air Force on 4 May 1976, not from Cape Canaveral. LAGEOS would act as a reflecting device for lasers fired from a ground source. This project was developed at the Marshal Space Flight Center. I'm still trying to determine from what locations the laser, or lasers, was fired. This would have been the perfect test for future satellites designed to focus special laser beam-holographic images to a precise location. As you can see, the Redstone Arsenal complex, to me, would be the perfect site from which to develop a holographic projection system. I would appreciate any additional information that anyone might have concerning this project at Redstone, or any other holographic projection project. ~~~ Bob ~~~ <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> -------------------------- The PHENOMENON eMail Box -------------------------- ***** We really like your newsletter. Thanks particularly for the radar information and education. ***** I read your silly story about the underground city in the Grand Canyon. One problem - how did Mr. Kincaid come to possess a flashlight in 1909? A little hard to believe Bud. [This is a very good question. I also wondered about the flashlight. It seems that the dry-cell flashlight was perfected in New York in 1898, so there were flashlights around in 1909, and were known by that name. ~~~ Bob ~~~ (not Bud)] ***** In my opinion, Phenomenon #6 is the best yet. I just got back from the Smithsonian Tuesday. After being there, I can very easily see how this theory could be true. All I can say is ... more, more, more. Very good stuff! ***** I was reading your article posted on the sighting web site, when suddenly I was struck by the fact that the article describes an old reoccuring dream I was having several years ago. In the dream I travel to the rocky mountains and enter a series of hidden tunnels with caverns and temple / shrines. the dream explicitly depicts an ancient Egyptian culture. The dream always ended with the tunnels being closed-off somehow. I don't really remember... but I would always awaken at the conclusion of the dream. I have never heard or read anything as described in your article until reading it tonight. Is this just a coincidence, or something more meaningful ? ***** I enjoyed your Phenomenon newsletter although it makes my blood boil just thinking of the lies that go on in our government. I wouldn't doubt for one minute that the Smithsonian has been involved with covering up discoveries that would rock the worlds of those poor, fragile scientists who would have to rewrite their precious history books. Will the human race ever grow up? ***** ***** Thanks for the eMails. I enjoy reading your comments, good and bad. ~~~ Bob ~~~ <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ----------------------- Newsletter Guidelines ----------------------- PHENOMENON is a FREE newsletter To add or remove yourself from our mailing list, please send an E-Mail to: bob.t@mindspring.com. The purpose of this free newsletter is to provide a forum for information and discussion concerning the strangeness that surrounds us in our daily lives. Articles, comments and/or suggestions are welcome. Articles may include, but are not limited to: ... UFOs & Ghost Lights ... The Paranormal ... New World Order ... Conspiracies ... Time Travel ... Hidden History ... etc... We welcome: ... Feature Articles ... Analysis, Commentary or Updates ... Your Own Report of Strange Phenomena All contributions to PHENOMENON E-Mail Newsletter must be in English. We reserved the right to edit for language, grammar and space. Anonymity will be provided if requested. Segments or single quotes from articles may be reprinted in other newsletters, bulletin boards or web sites, with permission from the Editor, as long as credit is given to PHENOMENON E-Mail Newsletter and, if applies, to the original source. Thanks Bob <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> (C) Bob Tidwell, 1998 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ~~~ End ~~~ <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 1 PHENOMENON # 7 - part 1 From: Bob <bob.t@mindspring.com> [Bob Tidwell] Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 18:53:37 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 21:58:46 -0400 Subject: PHENOMENON # 7 - part 1 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> PHENOMENON E-Mail Newsletter A Forum for the # 7 - Part 1 Strangeness Around us May 1, 1998 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> In This Issue Part 1 *** Editor's Notes *** The Lighter Side ~ ~ Coverups and Conspiracies *** Technology and UFO Investigation *** The Alabama Files ~ ~ A Secret Holographic Project? Part 2 *** The Alabama Files ~ ~ A Secret Holographic Project? (continued) *** The PHENOMENON eMail Box *** Newsletter Guidelines <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ------------------- Quote of the Week ------------------- The brain is by far the most complexly organized piece of matter we know. It is enormously more complicated in structure than a star is, for instance, which is why astronomers know so much about stars, and psychologists know so little about brains. Isaac Asimov <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ---------------- Editor's Notes ---------------- Hello fellow followers of fallen factions, and welcome to issue # 7. I'm starting this issue with a fresh :-) new look at that dreaded word - "conspiracy", and offer a suggestion on a different, more UFOlogy, correct one. Next, we'll take a look at today's technology, and how it may change the way in which we investigate those strange lights and objects that are floating around in our skies. Finally, I'll present facts about a secret Army/NASA project that has come to my attention here in Alabama. One that will probably be very controversial, but I'll just give you the facts, and let you decide for yourself. I've received some very encouraging emails recently, and would like to thank you for your comments about this newsletter. If there's any subject that you would like to see covered here, I'll be glad to see what I can come up with. Just drop me a line at: bob.t@mindspring.com Thanks again for your support, ~~~ Bob ~~~ <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ------------------ The Lighter Side ------------------ Coverups and Conspiracies ***************************** If you really want to stir things up among a group of UFOlogists, just mention the word "conspiracy". This word has become synonymous with all kinds of fringe groups, and if you mention it with regards to any situation, you automatically become associated with all of the other "conspiracy theorists." After all, UFOlogists are a fringe group in their own right. So, it's about time that we take a fresh new look at any conspiracies that might be taking place, and see if they truly are conspiracies or not, or if we're just overworking this word. According to Mr. Webster and Oxford American, conspire can mean; to make secret plans with others, especially for an unlawful purpose; to combine with other events for the same purpose; to agree by oath, covenant, or otherwise to commit a crime; to form a secret plot; or, to agree, concur, or conduce to one end. The word conspiracy can mean; to commit some crime in concert; or, a secret combination of men for an evil purpose ( I wonder why Mr. Webster didn't include women?). The best definition that I found was that conspiracy is simply; the plan made by conspiring. In simple terms, I take conspire to mean that more than one person (women included) decide to make a secret agreement, leading towards some certain purpose or goal, usually with an unlawful or sinister intent. I would also like to include unethical along with unlawful. Conspiracy is the plan that results from this agreement. Conspiracy is sometimes confused with "coverup", meaning; to hide, conceal, protect, cloak, lie about or lay false pretense. There are a lot of coverups going on, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are a part of any conspiracy. With these new definitions and meanings in hand, let's see how they apply to UFOlogy. [Talking about words and their meanings, my word processor keeps trying to change UFOlogy to Urology.] We all tend to agree that Roswell is part of a coverup. The Air Force, then the Army Air Corp, has admitted that they lied, partially, about that incident being a weather balloon. They were covering up the fact that it was another type of balloon. Of course, we all think that explanation is also a coverup. On the surface, this doesn't imply that there was a conspiracy. Sure, there was more than one person involved, but we're talking about only one agency, the Air Force. In order for this to be considered a conspiracy, other agencies would have to had been brought in, and there would have had to have been an unlawful or sinister purpose involved. (Which could very well turn out to be true, especially if we use the term unethical.) A Government may legally have the right to hide information that it thinks could be detrimental to it's citizens, but that does not make it right in my book. I think that we ,as Human beings, have the right to have access to all information, and decide for ourselves to what degree that it affects us personally. Besides, once any Government starts to hide information, it just makes it harder to release that information at a later date, in order to save face. If an Alien (or otherwise) presence is here on the Earth in any form, we have the right to know about it. Whether they are here to give us new technology, to enslave us, or simply to observe us, we have the ethical right to that information. If having that knowledge threatens the religions of the World, or even threatens Mankind's existence on this planet, Mankind has the right to make those decisions for themselves. If new and different technology is being offered, we have the right to decide how to use that technology. If we are under a threat of some kind, we have the right to determine how to deal with that threat. If we are being studied, then we have the right to know how involved we are in that study. If our Governments don't know themselves what this phenomena is, we have a right to have that information also. If the answer to any of these suppositions is yes, then there has to be a very complex plan involved to hide this knowledge, and I would consider that to be unlawful, sinister and unethical. This, to me, would be a conspiracy of the highest form. The Warren Commission decided that a lone gunman killed President Kennedy. If they had other facts that they were concealing, then that would be a coverup. A conspiracy would come into play if more than one person was involved in the shooting, this being a conspiracy among the shooters and planners, or if more than one government agency was involved in covering up these facts, which would be an agreement among these agencies to hide known facts from due process of law. But why am I now talking about assassinations, and not UFOs? Because, every time someone mentions something being a conspiracy, regardless of what it pertains to, you automatically get grouped along with the "conspiracy theorists", which have come to be known as those that believe everything is a conspiracy, regardless of whether they personally believe that or not. What we UFOlogists need is a new term. Abductees are now called experiencers, a term that I feel better suits the phenomena that they are experiencing. It just so happens that there is already a new term floating around that can be used instead of conspiracy, "hidden agenda". Has a lot better ring to it. If we suspect that, for instance, the Military and NASA (or any other groups) are hiding important facts that the Citizens of the World should know about, then instead of claiming a conspiracy, we could instead say, "is there a hidden agenda?" Works for me. What do you think? ~~~ Bob ~~ (Hidden Agenda Theorist? :-) <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Technology and UFO Investigations ************************************* UFOlogists are faced with a new obstacle between them and the truth; technology. We now have military aircraft flying around in our skies that are starting to take on some of the characteristics of UFOs, not to mention the black projects aircraft that may already match this phenomena (or be responsible for it). The unusual lights in the sky that we used to imagine as being craft from another world, are now becoming secret military aircraft in our minds. If there are true alien ships floating around in our skies, they now have current aircraft technology to help to hide them. Our ships and submarines are also taking on a new futuristic look. And, we've launched so much junk into space, NASA has a ready made excuse for almost any anomalous object observed in Earth orbit. Video processing technology is probably causing the most trouble in UFOlogy. It has gotten to the point where all photographs and video film are now suspect, regardless of the source. Fake photos and video are getting easier to produce every month. When will it get to the point that the fakes are so perfect that no video can be used as proof, or has it almost reached that point already? Photo experts, once considered to be one of the most valuable assets of analysis, would probably receive the most flack if they produced a photo or video themselves, simply because of their expertise. As soon as someone produces a decent UFO photo, the first thing that is looked at, is their photographic ability and the quality of their equipment. The worst the photographer, and the worst the camera, the more believable the photo becomes. And, with more and more digital cameras and computer photo programs being used by the public, it doesn't look like it's going to get any better. It may even get to the point where we have to put our children out in the back yard, by themselves, with a Brownie box camera, and hope for the best. A new technology that has both good and bad effects on UFOlogy is the Internet. Bad being that anyone, myself included, now has a cheap means of access to millions of interested people in which to express their views, or to spread disinformation. I feel that the good far exceeds the bad on the web though. We just need to take everything with a grain of salt and make an attempt to follow up on stories and articles that we choose to be interested in. The web also gets information out to everyone much faster than books or magazines, and allows a much greater interaction between UFOlogists to discuss this information on a more realtime basis. There is still a market for books and magazines at the present time, but I feel that UFO magazines will see a major decline in the near future, simply because in the time that it takes for the magazine to be printed and distributed, the stories would already be old news. One good thing that could come out of this is that the quality of the information contained in the magazines would have to improve, in order to continue to attract readers. There is one new technology though that could serve to undermine UFOlogy more than anything else. This technology concerns the perfection and use of "projected holographic images." The following article takes a look at this new technology, and suggests that it may already have been used to project false images, such as UFOs. ~~~ Bob ~~~ <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ------------------- The Alabama Files ------------------- A Secret Holographic Project? ********************************** The August-September, 1997 issue of Nexus magazine carried a short news item titled "Holographic Battleground." It stated that the U.S. Congress had just approved funding for the Army to perfect a laser system that would project life-sized hologram decoys of troops and tanks onto a battlefield. The holographic projector, dubbed the "Ghost Gun", could also be used to project images of political or religious leaders, such as Saddam Hussein standing on a balcony, telling his troops to lay down their arms. The article stated that the project is headed by U.S. Army scientist Dr. Gary Wood at the Army Research laboratory in Adelphi, Maryland, and could be perfected within 10 years. This brings to mind UPN's recent telecast of the August 9th Mexico City video. The video shows a daylight disk that moves across the viewing area and then out of view behind a building. (I don't get UPN in my area, so I haven't viewed this video yet) There has been some discussion as to whether or not the UFO was the result of a holographic projection. A question was asked as to whether or not two laser beams could project a false image of a UFO onto a uniform distribution of smog. Another question concerned whether or not it was possible to actually project a holographic image that would appear to be 3-D, and could be viewed from various angles. The major problem that was raised concerning holographs was that a projected image, being a light source, cannot be darker that the area that it is projected onto. I admit that I'm not knowledgeable in this field, but how do the Army scientists plan to solve this problem, and be able to project a believable image of virtual troops and equipment onto a battlefield, and appear to be solid enough to be perceived as real by enemy forces, from any angle. Could there be a method of modulating several projected and converging laser beams, such as to give the appearance of a solid object, maybe in a manner similar to the three electron guns in a color television picture tube? Another question that I have is whether or not this technology has already been perfected by the Army, possibly with the help of another familiar agency? A personal friend of mine related a UFO sighting that he and his wife had in 1991. They were traveling to Birmingham from Huntsville on Interstate 65 about 10:30 at night, when they came upon a huge cigar-shaped object in the sky above the highway. The object extended from beyond the tree level on either side of the highway, was motionless, and made no noise. The couple pulled over to the side of the road to better observe the object. Another car on the opposite side of the freeway had also pulled over to observe this same object. The object had yellow-orange lights along the side, and an erie green light projecting from domes on the top and bottom. After several minutes the object disappeared. My friend described it "as though someone had simply flipped a switch." (I would like to know if anyone here in Alabama has had a similar experience.) The other car continued on it's way after the object's disappearance. My friend and I have discussed the possibility as to whether or not the object could have been a projected image of some sort, and if so, where was it being projected from. His encounter was in the Blount Springs area, about 30 miles north of Birmingham, which is scarcely populated. He suggested that maybe this could be connected to an unusual project that he had witnessed years earlier at the Redstone Arsenal in Huntsville. Before I present my friend's story as observed at this Army site, I would like to give a little background information, in order to show the importance of this installation. At the start of WW II, the Chemical Warfare Service only had one chemical manufacturing installation, at the Edgewood Arsenal in Maryland. Because of a Possible U.S. involvement in the war, the Chief of the Chemical Warfare Service asked the War Department to fund a second location to supplement Edgewood's production, and to also provide a site that would be located far enough inland from the seacoast, in order to provide sufficient military protection. This site would require adequate rail, water, and highway transportation. The site would also need sufficient fuel and electrical power, along with enough raw materials for construction. The War Department selected Huntsville, Alabama on 3 July 1941 as the location for this new installation. This site was far enough inland, and the nearby mountain ranges would provide additional protection. A tract of over 30,000 acres, located just to the southwest of Huntsville along the Tennessee River, was available at a very reasonable price. Labor conditions, and the climate and living conditions of the area were considered to be excellent. An adequate supply of electrical power was also available from the Tennessee Valley Authority. On 24 July 1941 the War Department announced that the name of this new installation would be the Huntsville Arsenal. Groundbreaking was held on 4 August and the new arsenal's first production facility was activated in March 1942. Various chemical agents were produced at the arsenal during the war, including mustard and tear gas. On 6 March the Huntsville Chemical Warfare Depot was established on 7,700 acres on the extreme southern section of the arsenal, to store the various chemicals and munitions. The name was later changed to the Gulf Chemical Warfare depot, in order to avoid confusion with the Huntsville Arsenal. The Chief of Ordnance later recognized that it would be economically feasible to also locate a loading and assembly plant next to the arsenal, so on 25 October 1941 construction was started on a 4,000 acre tract of land that bordered the east of the Huntsville Arsenal, and the Redstone Ordnance Plant was activated on 5 February 1942. A year later on 26 February 1943, the name was changed to the Redstone Arsenal. This plant produced over 45 million units of ammunition for the war effort. After the war ended, both arsenals ceased production, and focused on salvaging ammunition returned from overseas. In February 1947 Redstone Arsenal was put on standby status. The Huntsville Arsenal was placed on surplus status, but on 9 November 1948 was placed on standby status as a possible site for the newly created Department of the Air force. When the Air Force decided against using the site, the Huntsville Arsenal was put up for sale. Meanwhile, the Chief of Ordnance had decided to use Redstone Arsenal as the center for research and development for a newly emerging military technology - rocketry. The Huntsville Arsenal was reactivated as the site of the Ordnance Rocket Center, and it's facilities and staff were placed under the control of Redstone Arsenal. As a related economy measure, on 28 October 1949 the Ordnance Research and Development Division Sub-Office (rocket development) was also moved from Fort Bliss, Texas to Redstone, and was renamed the Ordnance Guided Missile Center on 15 April 1950. Among the personnel that were transferred were Dr. Wernher von Braun and his team of German scientists and technicians. Von Braun had been the technical director of the Peenemuende Rocket Center on the Baltic Sea. He and other German scientists were brought to the U.S. in 1945, as part of Project Paperclip, to aid in military research and development. With the addition of the new missile group, the Army found that it needed more land, so on 15 April 1950 the Huntsville Arsenal officially ceased to exist and the entire complex was consolidated to Redstone Arsenal. Redstone also continued to produce chemical artillery ammunition until 1956. When the Army Ballistic Missile Agency was established on 1 February 1956, the Department of the Army selected Redstone as the site for this new agency. Personnel and equipment were transferred from Redstone's Guided Missile Development Division, along with von Braun and his scientists. The ABMA was initially responsible for the REDSTONE and PERSHING missile programs, along with the Army satellite program. Redstone soon became the main center for research and development, storage, maintenance, and repair for the Army's entire family of Army Ordnance missile systems. On 31 March 1958 the Army Ordnance Missile Command was established at Redstone. The AOMC had jurisdiction over ABMA, the Redstone Arsenal, the Jet Propulsion Laboratory at Pasadena, California, and the White Sands Proving Ground in New Mexico. ***** As you can see, this was (and still is) quite an important military installation. Now is a good time to go get that cup of coffee or tea, and continue with our story in part 2 of this newsletter. ~~~ Bob ~~~ <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> End of Part 1 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 1 Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 03:18:20 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 23:24:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles > From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> [Tim Matthews] > To: <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Urgent - Talking Sense About Flying Triangles > Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 02:13:43 +0100 <snippage> > In my forthcoming book I conclude that a similar craft was > responsible for the over 5,000 sightings of the boomerang-shaped > 'UFO'. If you put powerful lights on the underside of one of > these craft it would be easy to confuse ground witnesses. Sorry Mr. Matthews, this is no argument to explain the triangular UFOs, this is guessing, or have you forgotten the Belgian UFO-flap? These objects DID show on ground and on-board-radar. They moved with speeds I sure as hell would like to see performed by a LTA vehicle. These objects, as you probably know were also caught on video preforming some pretty irrational movents for a "sophisticated balloon". I do agree that especially triangular shapes are often misinterpreted as UFOs but with this explanation I get the old "it was a weatherballoon" feeling again... > And with the UFO community ready, willing and able to erect an > alien smokescreen around such covert activity then the CIA or > whomever are laughing themselves to sleep.... Definitly true in many cases, xept Belgium, it would seem... > 2) Flying triangles as high-speed reconnaissance aircraft. Check > out all the reports about possible hypersonic waveriders and tell > me what shape they are - wedge-shaped, triangular. dart-shaped. > Sound like UFOs? > Er.........Yes... Again I should point to the belgian case, the objects hovered almost at one spot, then shot of in high speeds to abruptly stop in mid-air again? Sounds like a Belgian Jet? Er...........Nope... <snip> > What amazes me is how little interest the UFO community takes in > this type of research. Nice you seem to know what each of us is doing... > I must conclude that given this information, which is but a > fraction of the overall evidence, that there is NO evidence that > either flying saucers or flying triangles are of ET origin. In > any case, both types are for use WITHIN an atmosphere. Speaking of research, what about the nasa STS-footage, astronauts UFO-accounts, the Fast Walkers detected by defence-radar? > There may be aliens 'out there' and why not? If they are keeping > an eye on us they must be laughing at so-called researchers who > have so little imagination and such a tentative grasp on reality > that they are unable to see that for over 50 years triangular > aircraft have offered a perfect solution in a variety of military > situations. So all UFOs are of military origin? That's barely talkin' sense,...sorry Tim :) > The Air Force, CIA, NRO, MOD and NSA all have an interest in > these technologies and aircraft. No wonder these ex-military > types said to have been involved in MJ-12 type scenarios are so > concerned to encourage the public to believe the alien myth > rather than the reality of secret military aircraft/military > UFOs. > There are conspiracies and cover-ups. Maybe Ufology is the > biggest of them all...... come on... > A question to Ufologists. When is the last time you heard anyone > talking about my kind of research at a UFO Conference? If Ufology > is no more than a new-age UFO religion could its' adherents > please be honest about it instead of pretending to be bona-fide > researchers? > UFO Conferences, in general, have become more like religious > revivals with Genesis beginning in July 1947 whereas UFO > publications read more like religious texts than journals of > decent investigation. > UFO Conferences, just like many other things, have been commercialised and turned in to "big buisness". But that's not were I collect my data, do you? I don't think so. Concerning the "new-agey" aspect you mentioned. Again: religion = to believe, research =(trying) to know... And OF COURSE are we looking into militairy arial movement, wouldn't that be obvious? > Yours for the truth, > Tim Matthews - Lancashire UFO Society, British UFO Studies > Centre. I don't wanna believe, I wanna research and know... Andy Denne Abduction & UFO Research Association The Netherlands
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 1 Re: A New Study... From: Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> Peter Brookesmith Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 22:25:09 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 23:27:36 -0400 Subject: Re: A New Study... With the compliments of the Duke of Mendoza: >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: A New Study [...] >Date: Fri, 01 May 98 10:05:49 PDT <mostly snipped> >The point is simply this: that whoever made up the story >Mr. Lopez is passing on, he cannot be accused of having a >creative imagination. Besides being a BS artist, his >informant is a plagiarist. It appears that even liars have >fallen on hard times. Jerry, you deserve a small medal for stamina. Damned if I could understand most of that post. My main point, though, is this. Let it first be known I entirely agree that plagiarism is strongly indicated here. Let it second be pondered that perhaps, also, on the other hand, the minds of some of us groundlings imagine the unexperienced along similar lines. I recently drew attention to a parallel between claims of "government interference" in the processing of film by good ol' George Adamski and younger, badder Willi Meier. Is something similar happening here? What does a True Believer, with caricature notion of Wicked Scientist Suffering From Terminal Tunnel Vision firmly riveted into place, think said narrow-minded buffoon will do when confronted with Incontrovertible Evidence Of The Unknown? I'd like to run a focus group or two on it to test the prediction that they think yer man will gibber and weep, not unlike Victor Mature at the foot of the cross in "The Robe", as his precious worldview collapses into painful splinters. Now I do wish someone would fund this kind of research, because it would tell us a great deal about how conspiracy theorists' minds work, and also - if it were properly designed - about the extent to which less fixated people come up with strikingly similar narratives when dealing with unfamiliar experiences. And that in turn would help to sort all kinds of sheep from all kinds of goats in this mushy field. I'm sure you get my drift. Should I apply for a grant to FUFOR? best wishes Plectrum D. Mandolin Vocal Refrain
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 1 Excerpt from The Brookings Report, 1960 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 23:50:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 23:50:17 -0400 Subject: Excerpt from The Brookings Report, 1960 The following excerpt is posted FYI Proposed Studies On The Implications Of Peaceful Space Activities For Human Affairs By Brookings Institution, 1960 Report To The 87th Congress, Union Calendar 79 Report Number 242 For National Aeronautics And Space Administration The general public 1.As with other matters not central to day-to-day living, the public, considered as a whole, is probably only selectively attentive to and knowledgeable about space activities. The relationship between the impact of events on indifferent or only occasionally interested people and their attitudes and values is but partly understood and needs further study. 2.It has been alleged that the "public" is optimistic about space activities. If this is so and if the optimism is widespread, the present support it generates for the space program may not be lasting if the difficulties inherent in space efforts have not been appreciated enough to make the failure of specific projects understandable. The resulting disillusionment may be a serious factor in reducing public support as space efforts become more grandiose, the consequences of payoff more exciting, and the losses from failure more dramatic. On the other hand, this optimism, if it exists, may produce a state of mind tolerant of failures. The factors affecting optimism, realism, and tolerance of frustration need more study as an aid in preparing for this situation. The roles of the promoter spokesman and the mass media in encouraging expectations of great and imminent accomplishments are integral to this problem area and would benefit from research. 3.The conviction that space activities will broaden man's horizons are presently based on the perspectives and special interests of a relatively few people in western societies. The claim may be justified, but there is need for research to assist understanding of the conditions under which innovations broaden or narrow perspectives in various cultures. For example, sufficient emphasis on space as the proper expression of man's highest aspirations may result in the evolution of a broadly based belief that this is so. But whether or not this is likely to be the case cannot now be decided in view of our limited understanding of how new ideas disseminate through societies. If and as horizons were broadened as a result of space activities, other aspirations would compete with them for attention and resources, and continuous study would be required to evaluate the appropriate position of space in this competition. 4.Though intelligent or semi-intelligent life conceivably exists elsewhere in our solar system, if intelligent extraterrestrial life is discovered in the next twenty years, it will very probably be by radio telescope from other solar systems. Evidences of its existence might also be found in artifacts left on the moon or other planets. The consequences for attitudes and values are unpredictable, but would vary profoundly in different cultures and between groups within complex societies; a crucial factor would be the nature of the communication between us and the other beings. Whether or not earth would be inspired to an all-out space effort by such a discovery is moot: societies sure of their own place in the universe have disintegrated when confronted by a superior society, and others have survived even though changed. Clearly, the better we can come to understand the factors involved in responding to such crises the better prepared we may be. 5.Man-in-space programs in their early days will confront some groups with value conflicts over the proper circumstances for risking life, family integrity, etc. Arguments are already intense on the merits, or lack of them, of investing heavily in man-in-space efforts. Later efforts may expose astronauts to living conditions with which many of the public cannot, or will be reluctant to identify. The threat and isolation of space thus emphasized may repel many people, especially as urban living becomes ever more the life pattern, and support for these efforts, therefore, might be less forthcoming. In some people, however, the adventures of the astronauts may fire a latent pioneer spirit; support for man-in-space programs might be strong among this group -- but it also might be displaced by their newly stirred personal pioneer aspirations. There may be possibly profound effects on attitudes and values if through the astronaut experiences it is found that the extraordinary abilities sometimes displayed under conditions of extreme physical or emotional stress can be made available to man for use in-more normal circumstances. However, it should be kept in mind that intense solar radiation and heavy-particle cosmic rays may make more than an occasional manned essay into deep space too dangerous to be practical during the time period under examination. If so, the consequences for attitudes and values are not clear. Understanding of the impact of the man-in-space program on attitudes and values in general, and on those toward the program itself in particular would benefit from a series of studies of public expectations and beliefs as these change over time. Since commitment of effort to competing programs for social betterment fundamentally depends on attitudes and values about their relative merits, a research area with potentially profound implications for society and space activities, which is also urgent for policy purposes, concerns the development of: Systematic methods for assigning priorities between competing scientific and social efforts (where competition may be over the long term and involve personnel, money, public support, and conflicting attitudes and values). A variety of more specific studies on public opinion and values as affected by space activities will depend on research providing trend data describing: The state of knowledge, values, and attitudes regarding space activities, both on-going and contemplated; and what assumptions, expectations, and values underlie the attitudes and interpretations of this knowledge. What are the effects over time of new knowledge and events on attitudes toward space activities, and what are the effects of the sources of information on the acceptability of the information? In view of the conflicting attitudes and values so far expressed about the Mercury program, and in view of the possible favorable and unfavorable consequences of astronaut launchings, it is urgent to plan studies that would provide information on what the public needs to know and would assist in interpreting public reactions by determining: Present public knowledge and expectations about and underlying attitudes toward, the Mercury program and the astronauts. These should be continuing studies so that the impact of events can be anticipated, evaluated, and planned for. While the discovery of intelligent life in other parts of the universe is not likely in the immediate future, it could nevertheless happen at any time. Whenever it does occur its consequences for earth attitudes and values may be profound. Hence a long-term research effort, which would aid in preparing for this possibility, could usefully begin with: A continuing determination of emotional and intellectual understanding and attitudes regarding the possibility and consequences of discovering intelligent extraterrestrial life. While space activities offer a special opportunity to study the relationship of innovation to social change, understanding the relationship will require examination of other innovation situations, too. Research is recommended to determine: What factors historically have entered into support or rejection of new ideas or technologies. What was and wasn't appreciated about the potentialities (or lack of them) in the innovation and under what personal and social circumstances did this occur? In particular, what were the roles of physical environment, politics, personalities, limited systems analysis capabilities,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Re: Mach 50 Thunderdart From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 22:16:02 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 09:07:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Mach 50 Thunderdart >From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Mach 50 Thunderdart >Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 09:27:18 +0100 >Dear All, >The rumour that the US has a Mach 50 Thunderdart is complete >nonsense. The Thunderdart was a Testors model kit. The whole idea >makes no sense. You are right, Tim...Mach 50 is complete nonsense. The Thunderdart is allegedly the second part of the "Aroura Project." Supposedly, there is the Mother Ship, which can fly at speeds up to Mach 3 at very high altitudes. The Dart, is carried on the back of the Mother ship, who's rear deck is delta shaped, and allows the Dart to take off directly from it's back. I have heard the Dart can also land on the Mother Ship as well. The Dart is allegedly capable of speeds which range from Mach 5 to Mach 10. That is a long way from Mach 50... The Mother ship is also alleged to carry rockets into the higher atmosphere where they may launch into earth orbit, without the need of the large booster stages. >Check out the Bill Rose article entitled "America's Secret >Spaceships" featured in UFO Magazine (UK) last year if you want >some actual facts. >Tim Matthews. Thanks. REgards, Mike The fastest way to respond to this message is through the ICQ Network. A message sent this way will go directly to my screen. If you have ICQ you can message me at ICQ#:7508455. If you don't have ICQ you can page me through: My Personal Communication Center: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/7508455 (go there and try it!) Or you can send me a regular e-mail to my EmailExpress address: 7508455@pager.mirabilis.com. Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/ Include your ICQ details in YOUR e-mail signature: http://www.icq.com/emailsig.html. My BBS Telephone Number is: (502) 683-3026 My Fax Number is: (502) 686-7394 My Home Telephone Number is: (502) 683-6811 Michael Christol ----------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Re: BUFORA WATCH 2 From: "C. Sanderson" <skygypsy@vegasnet.net> [Chris Sanderson] Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 20:38:06 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 09:14:47 -0400 Subject: Re: BUFORA WATCH 2 > From: ej77@dial.pipex.com (Mike Wootten) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: BUFORA WATCH 2 > Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:58:34 GMT > BUFORA watchers who are familiar with the on-going story of the > Max Burns/Miles Johnstone South Yorkshire 'UFO Crash' > interpretation may be interested to learn of BUFORA's latest > gaff. For the record, Miles' last name is JOHNSTON You call it a "gaff" to present a differing viewpoint to an event? I would be curious to know how many have read the actual "The Sheffield Report" written by Max Burns? I have. <snip> > Clarke's research has been on various places on the Internet and > *conclusively* proves that the incident was caused by military > jets illegally breaking the sound barrier, amongst other things. *conclusively*??? I would suggest that you take a look at Max's report and take into consideration the witnesses he has spoken with. I do not believe that Mr. Clarke has questioned a single one of them. He's simply shrugged them off. <snip> > BUFORA have been requested to take a long, hard look at what they > are doing in this instance. Their response? Press Officer Dave > Clarke was told by Chairman Steve Gamble that they were going to > give Max the chance to air these unsubstantiated views in the > hope that he will 'go away'. > BUFORA *should* have invited Dave Clarke to give his viewpoint > and evidence in open debate with Max Burns, and let the audience > decide. Instead they will be treated to an uncritical video made > by Miles Johnstone, who freely admits intradimensionals sit on > his knee (!) followed by an unsubstantiated rant by Max Burns. > If Saturday's charade goes ahead BUFORA are going to be a > laughing stock yet again. There are to be several journalists > from national titles in the audience. Is this the crux of the problem? Another side to this issue will be aired, and perhaps given some focus besides yours? > They are there because they are interested in Max Burns and his > chequered history. When presented with the sight of BUFORA, > supposedly the UK's foremost UFO research organisation, espousing > uncritcal thinking of this nature, we can only wonder at what > they will print. Once again I take issue. "...Max Burns and his chequered history." ??? What "chequered" history? A fairly recent arrest for being in possession of amphetamines? A man is no longer innocent until proven guilty? It may disappoint you when the charges are dropped. Wait and see. > If you are a BUFORA member, of concerned about serious UFO > research in the UK we urge you to contact a BUFORA official and > voice your concerns about this matter. We suggest the following: <snip> I would rather suggest that you give a man a chance to present his research and then make a decision as to the veracity of it. So far all I've seen is the huffing and puffing and chest expansion of a local journalist in the Sheffield area who, by the way, was FREELY GIVEN the findings of one Max Burns during his research work, who has turned around and publicly harangued and defamed a man's name. I applaud BUFORA for its fairness and sincerely doubt that BUFORA is giving Mr. Burns the floor, just so "he'll go away". If that statement is true, than BUFORA doesn't deserve the attention of serious followers and researchers in the UFO field world-wide and its reputation is severely damaged by such a statement. Chris Sanderson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Re: Question About Observed Triangular Shaped UFO From: James Peters <James_Peters@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 00:53:12 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 09:24:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Question About Observed Triangular Shaped UFO > From: "Stefan Duncan" <duncan@tarheel.net> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Question about observed triangular shaped UFO Tuesday night > Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 01:53:53 -0400 > Tuesday night a videotaped what appeared to be a triangular > craft. The craft had a white light at each tip. At the front, it > had a bright white light with a diffused red blinking light. This > craft was going about 30 miles an hour and was soundless. It > suddenly did a slow roll over. The top was now facing the ground > and the craft continued onward in that position for several > minutes. The rear white lights at the tips looked the same as on > either side. It continued that way until it faded from my sight. > If this is a stealth plane, can a pilot fly upside down for > minutes onward? Hi Stefan, Yes. Pilots of high-performance aircraft are trained to deal with positive AND negative g-forces. A simple roll in straight horizontal flight would be a negative force of 1 gravity. We all did that hanging off the jungle-gym by our legs as kids. Laters, Jim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles From: "Jon" <jon@wibble.powernet.co.uk> [Jon Dyton] Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 11:16:55 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 09:34:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> [Tim Matthews] >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Urgent - Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 02:13:43 +0100 >A question to Ufologists. When is the last time you heard anyone >talking about my kind of research at a UFO Conference? If Ufology >is no more than a new-age UFO religion could its' adherents >please be honest about it instead of pretending to be bona-fide >researchers? >Tim Matthews - Lancashire UFO Society, British UFO Studies >Centre. You should know this one Tim!! Gregory Kanon - Birmingham UFO Conference, 1st march 98. Talked about how the military uses ufo's to cover up HAARP etc. Inc, use of Microwaves and that area 51 is used far more for the CIA's money running & drug operations than anything else. he was one of the best speakers of the day. I can't help thinking, that were all looking for one tidy solution to the triangle problem, one catch all solution, but when you look at the evidence, the reports, there are so many different types of sightings, that saying its the military just doesn't add up in all cases. Why? You go to the efforts to build a plane, keep it secret, gag the press, the BBC, put a 20 mile exclusion around the place it lands, armed guards around hangers, and then what do you do.... hover the bloody thing over a nuclear power station every night for 3/4 years..... As I said, it doesn't add up. Theres more to it than just tests, maybe a campaign of dissinformation etc, but I don't buy it that simple. What gives me a major problem, also is that most triangle have had their air to ground exchanges picked up in some way, buy scanners, intercepted telemitry videos and the like. Whats been picked up of these big triangles? Have I missed something that may change my opinion? Please correct me if I have here, I would like to know, also where do you stick this thing? They have been seen flying in and out of the north sea, up to 20 of them? Or are these reports from Olav Fowler mistakes or B/S? What are we to make of the Big Black triangles liking for visiting 3 nuclear stations in one night, on a regular basis? As I said, more questions and no answers, least of all from me. Cheers Jon
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Re: Mach 50 Thunderdart From: Baron Northrop <baron@anim.dreamworks.com> Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 23:13:59 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 09:30:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Mach 50 Thunderdart >From: "Tim Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Mach 50 Thunderdart >Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 09:27:18 +0100 <snip> >The rumour that the US has a Mach 50 Thunderdart is complete >nonsense. The Thunderdart was a Testors model kit. The whole idea >makes no sense. <snip> To quote from: http://www.fas.org/sgp/bulletin/sec29.html Aurora for Fun and Profit Could secrecy be the new engine of economic growth? Hardly. But the classification of advanced surveillance aircraft is being exploited as the major selling point for a new set of scale models of "Aurora"-type spy planes for hobbyists. Declaring that "the secret is out!" the Testor Corporation of Rockford, Illinois announced last month that it is marketing what it calls "the super secret SR-75 Penetrator" ("also known by the code word Aurora") and "the XR-7 Thunder Dart reconnaissance aircraft system." The ad copy asserts that these craft "were designed to replace the aging SR-71 Blackbirds and are now flying missions from remote bases around the world." The Air Force denies this. The models' designer, John Andrews of Testor, says they are based on "available government information, some expert aviation and aerospace contacts, his own engineering experience, and several technological guesses." The marketing of a toy model has become something of a milestone in secret aircraft programs, suggesting that the time for declassification of some secret aircraft may soon be ripe. The Testor Corporation created an uproar when it released its model of a stealth fighter (which it called the F-19) in 1985, just a few years before the F-117A stealth fighter was finally unveiled. At the time, one bewildered Congressman demanded to know "how a secret aircraft that even Congressmen were not allowed to see could be reproduced by a model company." (Airpower Journal, Fall 1991, p.24). As it turned out, however, the Testor model bore little resemblance to the actual F-117A. But more than one million F-19s were sold, making it "the best selling model airplane of all time." Available at: http://worldmall.com/hhaven/120595.txt TES 567 1/72 XR-7 THUNDER DART 8.95 Also available! TES 576 1/48 LAZAR SPACECRAFT 19.95 Please don't flame me for what may look like an advertisement... I just wanted to show the kind of information that can be located on the net with minimum effort... This information is the result of less than 5 minutes using http://www.dogpile.com with "Thunderdart" as a search term...
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #244 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 05:32:50 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 09:35:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #244 Apology to MW #244 (For April 2, 1998) One day it _was_, at last, completed -- that megalith in Japan. A grand and wondrous structure, it was known throughout the land. The celebrants arrayed themselves, and lifted concentration -- to an art form, to a sculpture, to a human habitation. They had some *consecration*, and the words were so intoned that an echo of it lingers in the substance of the sea washed stone. Perhaps that day was stormy, with the black clouds all about! The air was sharp with ozone from the lightening they could shout. And the rain, she fell in torrents -- gloomy greenness drenched dark blue . . . the megalith then stood its ground . . . now stands for me and you. Maybe sunny skies, all blue and white, and filled with fleecy cloud; skies further filled with colored birds with which they were endowed. The odor of new spring was fresh in everybody's nose, and unashamed they sang and laughed, and danced without their clothes. Perhaps it was they stopped at last, and saw their labors done. The stone somehow an anchor for their knowledge just begun? Was it with a great respect that humans treated with their own? Did the strongest share their bounty with the ones that brought it home? Did they live the years thereafter without whips, or guns, or chains? Did they act without a malice that resides within =E9litist brains. The night skies held less terror? Did they know what went beyond? Did the ships of the Nefilim fill the heavens with aplomb? Were they spoken to directly? Were they treated with abuse? Were they in it for the money? Were they craftily obtuse? And would we even know them; could we understand their thoughts? Could we look inside their minds or homes, and fathom what was wrought? I'll never know what happened there, it rocks the boat too hard. It upends the establishment; it puts men upon their guard. It rewrites worthless textbooks, and it wrings out liquid doubt that washes dirty eyeballs, and then travels up your pinched off snout! It says were not in Kansas! It says we have it wrong! It says we may be weaker, or at best not quite so strong. It says we're not done learning. It says we cannot be assured. We don't yet know if God should be! We stumble in confusion, and we're in our loss inured. The Japanese step pyramid is a wonder to behold. It's proof that there's a treasure there much greater than mere gold. What chambers it must hold inside! The halls it must encompass!! What spacious airy galleries, filled with water (?) -- spins your compass!!! The egg heads are unsettled -- they must rethink party lines. Hawass in Egypt's windless sails are slack; his wind's confined. His pyramids are infants, and not the only game in town. Perhaps he'll be less harmless now his green has turned to brown. Lehmberg@snowhill.com Nature indicates the brown may, again, turn green -- and what a truly wonderful color that new green could be. I would see that new color. I would _have_ the truth dissolve the disrespectful scabs of privileged convenience, though _I_ be the one to bleed to death! Remember John Ford. -- Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 FYI - Max Burns From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 09:23:23 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 09:23:23 -0400 Subject: FYI - Max Burns For readers who are a little perplexed as to the reasons for the apparently sudden BUFORA embroglio, there follows a message which _may_ help to clarify. ebk <<<>>> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:21:25 -0400 From: Miles Johnston <TMilesJ@compuserve.com> Subject: Max Burns Sheffield Incident Response To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> Please ignore the file sent on this matter a day ago. Many who received the file, found that it immediately deleted itself, once opened. Hopefully this posting will not vanish before your eyes, as the last one did. Please note that this posting took well over 36hours to be received. The snail mail version arrived first.:- and was posted in error. IS the Email Being Bugged???? In view of the Skywatch total delete last week end, after me sending material to the Skywatch list on this matter, I can only surmise, that it may be due to this Sheffield incident involving such sensitive issues, that even the "Psi-Corp" version of the National Guard is out on this one. (I stand to be totally corrected, as this is pure speculation). Max has been subjected to severe personal attack on his report, which is simply his report on an incident, involving RAF jets, civilian aircraft, military helicopters, massive sonic booms of unknown origin, the possible loss (NOT CRASH) of an RAF Tornado attack interceptor aircraft, and the reported sighting of a MASSIVE, quote "HUGE" triangular UFO hovering feet from houses in Dronfield, near Sheffield. David Clarke who has also compiled a full report on this incident disputes Max Burn's claims as made in his report. Thanks to David questions raised in the House Of Commons (March 1998) have now succesfully revealed that RAF did have aircraft in the area, and that they were breaking regulations by allowing aircraft to go supersonic over a built up area. In essence the Official line is :- Sorry we were a bit naughtie, and some of our pilots did a few boo boos. The Unofficial, and vitriolicly opposed line is that at least one massive triangular UFO was engaged with RAF jets at this time. Whether this meant ETs were involved is a matter for conjecture. Further attempts to discredit Max Burns, siting his arrest for a drugs offence have been inaccuractly reported. These reports may be subject to legal proceedings. Mr Burns was today again given bail and will be fighting his case, at Sheffield Crown Court in due course. In essence he has stated that the drugs case is a dirty tricks department operation in order to get him out of the way, so his findings on the Incident will not be reported. Mr Burns has already received a commendation after saving a policeman's life, at great personal risk to himself, in a separate incident in the Sheffield area. It is hoped that Both Max Burns and David Clarke will be able to argue their respective points of view, at a BUFORA meeting on May 2nd, in London. Here follows Max Burns' formal reply to the recent events, including direct responses sent to Burns, via my email address. I might add, that the tone, and personal insults addressed to me, over my "crime" of simply talking to Max, speak, in my opinion for themselves, and reveal more about the sender, that they should have allowed themselves to. Miles J To: All researchers world-wide UFO groups journalists & anybody with an interest Subject: The Sheffield Incident March 24th 1997. (Debunkers of the world unite) The accused....Bufora , Andy Roberts , Tim Matthews, David Clark. From: Max Burns First of all what you are about to read is the transcript of the acidic e-mail that was sent to Miles Johnston from Mr Andy Roberts, purely for the purpose of trying to discredit me and to attack me personally as part of the onslaught from the above mentioned, to try and discredit my research into the Sheffield incident. What all this has to do with them must mean only one thing! I'll let you all decide what that is. Followed by my response. This will be my one & only response to these juveniles. To: Miles Johnstone, TMilesJ From: Andy Roberts, Briganta Date: 4/3/98, 2.53pm Re: Sheffield UFO Crash Hi Miles, I gather from Max Burns you are confused about the true nature of the Sheffield Moors UFO event. Dave Clarke (BUFORA AI) has done the*real* research on this case and indeed was the first person to write about it.(Sheffield Star, March 1997). I have had several conversatios with Max about this and it is clear tht his predeliction for the ETH is governing has critical faculties. All Max has in the way of 'evidence' is a few reports of what may or may not be unexplained aircraft. Oh, and a copy of the police log which Max did not actually get himself but has recieved from another researcher in Sheffield but is now pretending is his own research. Saying that something is ET in nature without a scrap of evidence is sadly indicative of the way ufology in this country is going. Additionally, claiming that a member of the armed forces lost his life - whether in an accident or via the ludicrous claims of a UFO incident - is a serious matter and could cause needless worry and distress in certain quarters. This is not good or responsible UFO research and quite frankly Miles I am astonished that you should wish to be connected to it. Dave Clarke has produced a *full* report on #this case and I will be presenting his findings to the public shortly via at least one major newstand magazine. *This* is proper UFO research and not the half baked tripe Max is hawking around. I am sure that if you contact Dave he will fill you in and I am also attaching below details of Dave's sterling work in approaching the problem through official channels and which have already produced results. I gather that some 'presentation' regarding this case is to be shown at the BUFORA AGM tommorrow, based on Max's interpretation. It is a great shame that BUFORA members will be subjected to this unsubstantiated nonsense and it will in fact lower BUFORA's esteem further within the serious UFO Investigative community. You are obviously compliant in this and must shoulder the blame when people question BUFORA members' ability to interpret cases clearly. Furthermore Max tells me that his current drugs charge is a 'set up' by British Intelligence and that he is going to call Tim Good as a witness and the whole case will collapes. Do you believe that nonsense also Miles?. His guilt or lack of it is for the courts to decide as I am sure you are aware. But, our sources in 'Intel' inform us there are also two warrants without bail outstanding for Max, one for failing to answer bail in court and the other for owing over two thousand pounds to Rotherham Council. I would have copies this to Max but I don't have his current e-mail address. Perhaps you would be good enough to forward this to him for me. Happy Trails Andy _________________________________________________________________ __________ ____ Max Burns..........responce Let me inform you of some disturbing events that have come to pass over the last few weeks, last Saturday April 4th the BUFORA AGM was held in London and as arranged prior to the event. A video presentation was to be shown from Miles Johnston as well as that the full 22000 word forty page report of my extensive twelve month investigation into the Incident over the Pennines. However by the Friday before the BUFORA AGM it became evident that during my many conversations with Mr Steve Gamble after he had received the first twenty pages of the report that the opinion was growing from unknown quarters in the organisation that perhaps that only part of the report would be able to be read out under the guise of not enough time to read it all to the AGM. I made the comment to Mr Steve Gamble current President of the group that I felt that this was censorship of the report and without reading the full document that the members would not be aware of what I believe, from the evidence I have collated, from various areas and therefore would not be able to make an accurate judgement on the varasity of my conclusions. The AGM went on till 4.00pm and the video presentation would have run just under 60 minutes which still left 30 minutes to cover any other business, but it was decided to censor the video presentation as well as the report that was scheduled to be read to the AGM. Mr David Clark ( the Sheffield Star ) BUFORA A.I. has also supposedly been caring out extensive research into this incident and I have over the last twelve months been sharing my research with David who has continued to debunk witnesses whom I have spoken with without even speaking with them. This seems strange, as Sigmund Freud said "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" then perhaps using this analogy sometimes a huge 200/300 ft across flying triangle with the control of gravity is exactly what the eye witnesses say it is... This is another example of Mr Clarks excellent unbiased reporting came, about six weeks ago when a couple from the Sheffield area reported that they had witnessed an enormous flying triangle over the area. They said "the triangle was zig zagging all over the sky." In the Sheffield Star Mr Clark reported that what they had in all likelyhood seen was the 20.00 arrival from Amsterdam into Sheffield airport. I think that the witnesses who have nothing to gain from reporting what they had seen to the media as concerned citizens know the difference between an enormous triangle shaped object zig zagging all over the sky and the 22.00 arrival from Amsterdam. Why does it have to be something else? Why can't what the witnesses say they saw be exactly what they say they saw,a huge triangle craft? This I feel is one of the many debunking exercises that Mr Clark is involved in under the guise of unbiased reportive journalism. As well as that I called to see David about six weeks ago to share with him copies of the police log that I had obtained from a fellow researcher and at no point have I ever tried to take research supplied to me by another researcher and not give them credit for the assistance in my investigation by any such help as is the accusation made by Mr Andy Roberts the editor and compiler of the Armchair ufoligist, as if anyone would care to speak with Mr Clark, I'm sure that maybe for once he will put the record straight and acknowledge the fact that when he asked me who I had received the police log of the incident from I did not want to reveal my source but when David suggested the name of a certain researcher I immediately confirmed to him that he was correct.as well as that I have hand written confirmation from David Clark himself which reads. "Max....Here's the edited police log I was given by the CID. It doesn't tell you anymore than the log which Martin gave you. Hope the implant isn't playing up and send my regards to Miles Johnston - in his tunnel!." Mr Clarke has also claimedf that he was the first investigator on the scene arriving on the scene the morning of the 25th March, not that it was a race to get there first, or is Mr Clarke asserting that as he was there first his version or should i say story is correct. but once again just to put the record straight as i was stopped by P.C Mick Eccleshare in Castleton at 23.45 on the night of the 24th for a routine vechicle check, he then sent myself & Emma over the the Strines and Dale dyke reservoirs, where there he told me that there had been reports of a crashed plane this information is a matter of police record and having that i have spoken with P.C Eccleshare on numerous occassions he will confirm that i was on the scene at approx midnight on the 24th March where i photographed the R.A.F Sea king helicopters searching the area with infra red. The photograhic evidence i still have in my possession. another case of incorrect reporting and as Mr Clarke Has he stated that he has spoken with all key witneses, and they have confirmed that it was a light aircraft,he however has not spoken with any of the witneses to the flying triangle,and may i also say that no one is disputing that there was light aircraft in the area infact a former RAF officer stated that Militiary jets flew low and fast over Dronfield then a twin engined plane circled the area twice very low obviously searching for something i believe that the light aircraft had the triangle under surveilance becausse of the slow flying speed of these triangles it is easier to pin point them for the jets when these triangles at such a low altitude makes it very hard to track them on radar. Hence why the light aircraft was spotted all over the pennines that night it was obviously tailing the triangle for the militiary, Mr Clark has also stated that my entire version of events is a fabrication, Well let me put it this way if my claims are a gross fabrication as Clark, Mathew's,& Robert's claim. Why has Clark claimed that my " Gross fabrication which could lead to uneccessary anguish among service families." Surely Mr Clark you have just exposed youself and your assoiates to what you really are a group of authorised debunkers, if no pilots have been killed during this incident and no service pilots wifes or husbands have been to there husband or wifes funerals, how would my report cause uneccessary anguish among service families, "those are your words" unless it would bring the true nature of how family members had lost there spouses, instead of the standard " your husband or wife lost there life on a mission and died with honour in the defece of the realm type bog standard militiary statement." Thanks for confirming that my research is correct and exposing you and your assocites for what you really are a group of debunkers for and on behalf of the secret keepers. I hope that Mr Clark will also acknowledge the fact that I supplied him with the opportunity to photo copy what ever documentation from my rough draft of the incident including my initial conclusions and hand written witness statements which he did. But Mr Clark had told me that he had a police log of his own and in return he would supply me with copies of the log which he claimed to have in his possession, the content of which he claimed had multiple triangle sightings about events over the Pennines on the 24th March. MR Clark also states that the search lasted 18 hours, but in actual fact the search lasted 15 hours at maximum, another case off miss-reporting For the benefit of Mr Roberts, in the acknowledgements in my report and during the report I have made repeated thanks to all concerned who have supplied me with data in particular to the researcher who supplied me with the police log so all I can say to the unbiased Mr Robert's is please get your facts 100% correct when your are going to personally attack me for no reason.Or have you got some hidden agenda? And what has any of this got to do with you anyway? I feel that as an individual living in a democratic society exercising my right to present my evidence and place it in the public domain and let the free minded individuals of this planet draw their own conclusions. Considering that the friendly Mr Roberts has not even seen or read my research he is in way over his understanding or comprehension of such matters of great importance and I suggest that you stick to writing about lights in the sky... Now referring to the police log that David Clark alleged to me that he had in his possession and in return for the exchange of data he would forward to me in the post. What I believe I recieved through the post after checking with a police contact who confirmed to me that any police documentation including police logs would have on it the police force district and relevant incident numberss so as that police from other districts or forces can pull an incident from its incident number and therefore keeping all data relevant to a paticular incident in the same file, as Mr Clark stated that he had recieved his log off a member of the CID. I also inquired about CID. police logs and it was confirmed to me that all departments of all police forces operate off the same paperwork for unifercation off operating systems, so as to make the passing of data between forces comprehencable to all. So I must conclude that what I recieved from Clark was nothing more than the official log that I supplied to David which had been scanned in, then a quick cut and paste of various portions of the text into a new document which was done poorly due to the second line of any cut and paste had not stayed in line with the edge of the beginning of the document due to the tabs not been set on the new document the text was all over the page, then with a couple of footnotes written into the border with some dates a quick photocopy and the attempted piece of deception was complete.. "its a pity that some people judge me on there own intelligence" when I spoke with David with regard to the lack of evidence in his poor attempt at deception, he denied ever making claims about triangles in his version of his supposed police log which he had in his possession, also on my visit to David's office the afternoon of tea and debate of obviously two individuals with different opinions with regard to the UFO phenomena, which may I say is everyones right, took a more insidious nature when one of David's colleagues arrived back from an assignment, the two of them turned on me with personal attacks ranging from my knowledge of the subject to the amount of time I have in the research field what bearing any of that had with regard to the incident over the Pennines except for the beginning of the onslaught of personal attacks against me in the hope of discrediting me so as then to debunk my research. Mr Tim Matthew's has continued to attack me with some varasity during the last twelve months including the sending of very acidic e-mails to the editor of one of the magazines that I have been writing for which were kindly re- e.mailed to me. One of the strange things about this was his pointing out that I had spelt the name of a certain operative incorrectly, so my whole article must be tarnished...petty or what perhaps the spelling mistake was down to the production editor we will never know! One of the worlds great unanswered mysteries. He then informed the editor that there was no point in reporting the second Brazil crash as it was all made up. Now considering that the only person who knew that my next article was the Brazil incident other than the editor was myself, I consider it to be a brilliant piece of guess work on the behalf of the unbiased former B.N.P stalwart Mr Matthews. Keep up the good work Tim. "You're a thoroughly jolly nice chap" Going back to Mr David Clark I am quite amused by the fact even with my continuing endeavours to share information with Clark purely on the basis that if we all conceal what evidence then we are effectively doing the job of the intelligence community and we have become no better than the beast. Clark has turned up the pressure on me by revealing to all and sundry with regard to my present legal situation appertaining to my charge as an ecstasy dealer as reported by Matthews Roberts & Clark who I will now refer to as Stock Aitken & Waterman, one of which was also known as the Hitman I don't know which one is 'her'...in the vain attempt to discredit me and therefore discredit my research. (for anyone who does not know Pete Waterman used to present a TV show called the Hitman & her with Michala Strachan.) These drug charges which they have alleged information is also being reported incorrectly the dealing of ecstasy is a class A charge but I have only been charged with a class B charge. Another case of mis-reporting still serious charges though and with also the big scoop of the year that I apparently owe over =A32000 to Rotherham Council. This information is also incorrect not that it has anything to with Matthews Roberts & Clark, the agreement with my former landlord was that my rent was inclusive of council tax and although the council may be trying to recoup this money from myself I have not been formerly served with any such documentation. May I also state that if unless Matthews Roberts & Clark have recently changed the law Kangaroo courts are illegal. I have pleaded not guilty to the lesser charge, and therefore I am innocent until 12 members of the public decide otherwise. With regard to my current bail situation I will be in court on Wednesday to address this and the decision of which will be up to the sitting magistrate. I would remind my unbiased friends that misreporting of charges against me is quite possibly as well as malicious could be deemed liable. Mr Clark has also telephoned Steve Gamble at BUFORA and quite firmly has instructed him that no part of my research should be heard by the council or members, as a journalist for the local paper The Sheffield Star, in his capacity as area investigator for BUFORA I don't quite understand with what or whose authority he is issuing these orders on the current president of BUFORA. Mr Clark is soon he hopes to be appointed to the position of press officer for the BUFORA group. during my debate in his office he stated that he has been a researcher in the study of UFOs for fifteen years and that none of the millions of UFO reports world wide are due to the fact we are being visited by extra terrestrials, - glad you put us all straight on that one Dave - fifteen years studying UFOs and believes none of the sightings could possibly be due to the visitation of ET is that the same as an atheist reading the bible !. I feel it would be of no benefit to the members of BUFORA to have a press officer with such a biased nature,and one sided approach to the field of UFO research, I my self acknowledge that not all sightings of UFO are alien ships, some are hoaxes some are miss-identifications.But I also feel that some of the sightings are extra terresstrial in origin. If BUFORA want to do the right thing they should have a press officer who is not involved in the research field and has no hidden agenda,when will BUFORA release the 600 case files they have absorbed so research can be continued into these cases,they are a research organisation but there appears to be very little research going on just the holding of case files.! I propose that David should have the opportunity to present his research and his conclusions as an individual.there is always room for everyones opions its a free country I think? And at the same time I should also be allowed to present my findings and my conclusions inviting the national media to be present at the presentations and let them report what they believe to be the facts about what happened one cold cloudless night. In itself assuring that BUFORA is still the British Unidentified Flying Objects Research Association and not the British Absorption of Information and Burial of Evidence Debunkers Society for and on Behalf of the Government which sadly the rumours and behaviour of certain members of the group would seem to point to being true. With regard to my pending court case i feel it would not be prudent to discuss the case with regard to the laws of subjudisy and that i do not wish to reveal what evidence the authorities do not have or what evidence i have with regard to my defence obviously you know the old saying "forwarned is forarmed" but i will say you can lock me up, but you will never take my freedom. May I also let everyone know that I am 35yrs of age and have no previous convictions and in 1992 I received a commendation from the chief constable of Derbyshire Police for saving a Policeman's life at great risk to myself while he was being attacked by three thugs at great personal risk for my own safety. There is only one thing worse than being talked about. " Not being talked about". So if I am so far from the mark with regard to the incident over the Pennines on the 24th March 1997 why am I being attacked from the usual debunkers with such varasity so badly even to the point of them trading personal insults in a vain attempt to discredit me and therefore discredit the incident it is a sad state of affairs when these so called professional people are allowed to behave like this. But all I can say is my research is right on the money, on top if it wasn't then I would not be attracting this much aggression from those who seek to conceal the truth. Yours Faithfully Maxwell Brierley Burns POST THIS AROUND THE WORLD
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Chat with Ufologist Mark Cashman From: "Yvonne Hedenland" <vonni_h@email.msn.com> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 07:56:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 11:16:04 -0400 Subject: Chat with Ufologist Mark Cashman Measuring the Unknown Contrary to popular belief, a surprising number of measurements and scientific experiments have been done in relation to UFOs. Join Ufologist Mark Cashman in the Briefing Room for a detailed look at some of the more scientific results of studying this phenomenon. This chat will be held on Tuesday, May 5th, at 6pm PT http://forums.msn.com/ufo The Netshow Audio Interview with Mr. Cashman is now Available at http://forums.msn.com/ufo The Briefing Room chat can also be accessed by any IRC client. the room or channel name is #briefing, and the chat server name is publicchat.msn.com ###############################################################
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 UFO UpDates - Posting Instructions From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 11:19:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 11:19:16 -0400 Subject: UFO UpDates - Posting Instructions To help current and future readers of UFO UpDates' posts and the UFO UpDates Instant Archive software at: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates please observe the following rules when posting to the List. 1. Line-length Please make your lines no more than 70 characters long ------------------------This line is 70 characters--------------------- Longer lines are wrapped by various pieces of software along the Net and leave awkward and eye-jarring line lengths. 2. Attribution When responding to a message from the List, _always_ include the four line 'header' from the body of that message at the start of _your_ message - eg.: >Date: 01 Jan 97 00:00:01 EST >From: Genghis@mukluk.com <Bob Bobberts> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Grays are Grey Area Again - it's at the beginning of the 'body' of the message you are responding to. 3. Quoting _Always_ quote from the message to which you are responding. Quotes should come _before_ you key your response. Start each quoted line with a 'greater-than' sign (>) as the first character. It should look like this: >Start each quoted line with a 'greater-than' sign (>) as the >first character. It should look like this: Keep quoted material from previous messages to a minimum: Just quote enough text to let people know what you are referring to. Messages that do not utilize the required quoting protocol or contain excessive quoting will not be posted to UpDates. The Archive software will automatically italicize these lines. Visit the Archive page and take a look. Most modern E-Mail software will allow the user to click a 'Reply' button and automatically open a new window, with the message being responded to inserted with universal quote-mark (>) at the beginning of each line. When 'Reply' is clicked, some E-Mail software will insert a line which states: On 01 Jan 97 at 00:00:01 EST, UFO UpDates wrote: If your program does this, please remove it - UFO UpDates did not _write_ the message - it merely posted it to the List. 5. Don't send 'personal' responses to the list that should be sent directly to the original author. Send a message to the list only if it contains new information that you want _everyone_ to see. Messages that contain what the List Administrator considers to be personal attacks or 'flames' will not be posted to the List. Those messages will be forwarded to the person they refer to for their information. 6. URLs (Web Site addresses) _should_ include 'http://' and be on one line.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> [Tim Mathews] Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 01:32:42 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 11:28:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles > Date: 02 May 1998 03:06 > Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 18:28:12 -0700 > From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles > > From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> [Tim Matthews] > > To: <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Urgent - Talking Sense About Flying Triangles > > Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 02:13:43 +0100 > > Dear Updates, > > I read with interest the continuing confusion about flying > > triangles, both large and small. The nonsense talked about this > > subject is indicative of modern Ufology in that too many people > > believe (and that is the operative word) that these aircraft are > > 'alien spaceships'. > <extremely generous snip> > You are incredibly rude! And if you knew much about current > ufology you'd realize that probably MOST UFO watchers today > believe that these triangles are "ours" rather than "theirs," > that's if the scuttlebutt on the Internet is representative of > the collective UFO community. I don't know which they are, but > this is extremely well-trodden ground, to say the least. > Or, as we say in California -- Duh! Hi there, Really? Not in the UK! Most magazines (and researchers) argue that these triangles are of ET origin. To my knowledge only about three researchers here have argued the man-made UFO case. Maybe it's different in California? Tim Matthews
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Re: Excerpt from The Brookings Report, 1960 From: "Diana Botsford" <diana@oznet.com> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 09:15:39 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 11:09:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Excerpt from The Brookings Report, 1960 It's now been 37 years since the Brookings Report was turned over to Committee of the Whole House on the State of the Union (April 18, 1961)at the 82nd Congress in it's First Session. As is evident from the many listserv postings in the past week or so - this document and it's potential for still having far reaching influence are of major concern. Additional excerpts from the Brookings Report on "The Implications of Discovery of Extraterrestrial Life" are now available at the UFO Forum at http://forums.msn.com/ufo. This includes scanned images of the original documents along with text converted pages for ease of reading. There is also a commentary in regards to the issues presented in this historical document. One of the key proposals within this section of the Brookings Report is the reccommendation that further studies be done to ascertain the general populace's ability to handle 'extraordinary news' such as the existence of ET. We have contacted the Brookings Institute to determine if these proposals were ever carried through and if so, are the new studies are available for public viewing via the FOIA. Diana Botsford Publisher/Forum Manager UFO Forum http://forums.msn.com/ufo - - - - - - "To follow knowledge like a sinking star, Beyond the utmost bound of human thought . . . To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield." Tennyson's Ulysses -----Original Message----- From: UFO UpDates - Toronto [mailto:updates@globalserve.net] Sent: Friday, May 01, 1998 10:50 PM To: updates@globalserve.net Subject: UFO UpDate: Excerpt from The Brookings Report, 1960 The following excerpt is posted FYI Proposed Studies On The Implications Of Peaceful Space Activities For Human Affairs By Brookings Institution, 1960 Report To The 87th Congress, Union Calendar 79 Report Number 242 For National Aeronautics And Space Administration The general public 1.As with other matters not central to day-to-day living, the public, considered as a whole, is probably only selectively attentive to and knowledgeable about space activities. The relationship between the impact of events on indifferent or only occasionally interested people and their attitudes and values is but partly understood and needs further study. 2.It has been alleged that the "public" is optimistic about space activities. If this is so and if the optimism is widespread, the present support it generates for the space program may not be lasting if the difficulties inherent in space efforts have not been appreciated enough to make the failure of specific projects understandable. The resulting disillusionment may be a serious factor in reducing public support as space efforts become more grandiose, the consequences of payoff more exciting, and the losses from failure more dramatic. On the other hand, this optimism, if it exists, may produce a state of mind tolerant of failures. The factors affecting optimism, realism, and tolerance of frustration need more study as an aid in preparing for this situation. The roles of the promoter spokesman and the mass media in encouraging expectations of great and imminent accomplishments are integral to this problem area and would benefit from research. 3.The conviction that space activities will broaden man's horizons are presently based on the perspectives and special interests of a relatively few people in western societies. The claim may be justified, but there is need for research to assist understanding of the conditions under which innovations broaden or narrow perspectives in various cultures. For example, sufficient emphasis on space as the proper expression of man's highest aspirations may result in the evolution of a broadly based belief that this is so. But whether or not this is likely to be the case cannot now be decided in view of our limited understanding of how new ideas disseminate through societies. If and as horizons were broadened as a result of space activities, other aspirations would compete with them for attention and resources, and continuous study would be required to evaluate the appropriate position of space in this competition. 4.Though intelligent or semi-intelligent life conceivably exists elsewhere in our solar system, if intelligent extraterrestrial life is discovered in the next twenty years, it will very probably be by radio telescope from other solar systems. Evidences of its existence might also be found in artifacts left on the moon or other planets. The consequences for attitudes and values are unpredictable, but would vary profoundly in different cultures and between groups within complex societies; a crucial factor would be the nature of the communication between us and the other beings. Whether or not earth would be inspired to an all-out space effort by such a discovery is moot: societies sure of their own place in the universe have disintegrated when confronted by a superior society, and others have survived even though changed. Clearly, the better we can come to understand the factors involved in responding to such crises the better prepared we may be. 5.Man-in-space programs in their early days will confront some groups with value conflicts over the proper circumstances for risking life, family integrity, etc. Arguments are already intense on the merits, or lack of them, of investing heavily in man-in-space efforts. Later efforts may expose astronauts to living conditions with which many of the public cannot, or will be reluctant to identify. The threat and isolation of space thus emphasized may repel many people, especially as urban living becomes ever more the life pattern, and support for these efforts, therefore, might be less forthcoming. In some people, however, the adventures of the astronauts may fire a latent pioneer spirit; support for man-in-space programs might be strong among this group -- but it also might be displaced by their newly stirred personal pioneer aspirations. There may be possibly profound effects on attitudes and values if through the astronaut experiences it is found that the extraordinary abilities sometimes displayed under conditions of extreme physical or emotional stress can be made available to man for use in-more normal circumstances. However, it should be kept in mind that intense solar radiation and heavy-particle cosmic rays may make more than an occasional manned essay into deep space too dangerous to be practical during the time period under examination. If so, the consequences for attitudes and values are not clear. Understanding of the impact of the man-in-space program on attitudes and values in general, and on those toward the program itself in particular would benefit from a series of studies of public expectations and beliefs as these change over time. Since commitment of effort to competing programs for social betterment fundamentally depends on attitudes and values about their relative merits, a research area with potentially profound implications for society and space activities, which is also urgent for policy purposes, concerns the development of: Systematic methods for assigning priorities between competing scientific and social efforts (where competition may be over the long term and involve personnel, money, public support, and conflicting attitudes and values). A variety of more specific studies on public opinion and values as affected by space activities will depend on research providing trend data describing: The state of knowledge, values, and attitudes regarding space activities, both on-going and contemplated; and what assumptions, expectations, and values underlie the attitudes and interpretations of this knowledge. What are the effects over time of new knowledge and events on attitudes toward space activities, and what are the effects of the sources of information on the acceptability of the information? In view of the conflicting attitudes and values so far expressed about the Mercury program, and in view of the possible favorable and unfavorable consequences of astronaut launchings, it is urgent to plan studies that would provide information on what the public needs to know and would assist in interpreting public reactions by determining: Present public knowledge and expectations about and underlying attitudes toward, the Mercury program and the astronauts. These should be continuing studies so that the impact of events can be anticipated, evaluated, and planned for. While the discovery of intelligent life in other parts of the universe is not likely in the immediate future, it could nevertheless happen at any time. Whenever it does occur its consequences for earth attitudes and values may be profound. Hence a long-term research effort, which would aid in preparing for this possibility, could usefully begin with: A continuing determination of emotional and intellectual understanding and attitudes regarding the possibility and consequences of discovering intelligent extraterrestrial life. While space activities offer a special opportunity to study the relationship of innovation to social change, understanding the relationship will require examination of other innovation situations, too. Research is recommended to determine: What factors historically have entered into support or rejection of new ideas or technologies. What was and wasn't appreciated about the potentialities (or lack of them) in the innovation and under what personal and social circumstances did this occur? In particular, what were the roles of physical environment, politics, personalities, limited systems analysis capabilities, insufficient communications to decision makers, etc.? \_______________________________________________/ UFO UpDates - Toronto - updates@globalserve.net Operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp - ++ 416-696-0145 An E-Mail Subscription Service for the Study of UFO Related Phenomena UFO UpDates Instant Archive available at http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates MUFON Ontario's Home Page: http://www.globalserve.net/~updates/mufon/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> [Tim Mathews] Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 01:17:52 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 11:27:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles > Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 03:18:20 -0700 > From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles > > From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> [Tim Matthews] > > To: <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Urgent - Talking Sense About Flying Triangles > > Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 02:13:43 +0100 > <snippage> > > In my forthcoming book I conclude that a similar craft was > > responsible for the over 5,000 sightings of the boomerang-shaped > > 'UFO'. If you put powerful lights on the underside of one of > > these craft it would be easy to confuse ground witnesses. > Sorry Mr. Matthews, this is no argument to explain the triangular > UFOs, this is guessing, or have you forgotten the Belgian > UFO-flap? These objects DID show on ground and on-board-radar. > They moved with speeds I sure as hell would like to see performed > by a LTA vehicle. > These objects, as you probably know were also caught on video > preforming some pretty irrational movents for a "sophisticated > balloon". > I do agree that especially triangular shapes are often > misinterpreted as UFOs but with this explanation I get the old > "it was a weatherballoon" feeling again... Hello there, Belgium - read Wim Van Utrechts' articles on the Belgian wave. The question of the radar evidence is important because it was/is so flawed. Did you know that there were significant problems with the radar systems and that the two interceptors sent up locked onto each other during their mission? It is said that the pilots did not see the object in question although they were supposedly near to it. Ground observers present a particularly confused picture and why do the videos taken not show a solid object? I suggest that there is little correlation between the craft seen moving slowly at low altitude and the 'craft' or phenomena reportedly operating at high speed. Perhaps US-UK intelligence interest in the Belgian sightings was more a case of their keeping an eye on their own prototype rather than concern about aliens. Alternatively, if we discounted the radar evidence it would still be possible for electrogravitics systems to produce such maneuvers IF you accept that these systems have gone beyond the somewhat theoretical stage as noted in several 1950s reports, one of which entitled 'Electrogravitics Systems' (Gravity Research Group, London, 1956) states that an operating system would enable an aircraft to perform sharp-edged changes of direction typical of motion in space. The report postulated a flying saucer as the basis of a Mach 3 interceptor and noted that such technological developments could only be undertaken if a 'Manhattan-District-type effort' was put in place.... You never know, maybe there were two different types of UFOs operating? I don't necessarily believe this but it must be worth considering. In any case, these triangles seem to me, and others who tend to avoid these UFO sites, to be little more than modern-day flying wings. After all, the Horten Brothers developed boomerang-shaped aircraft back in the 1930s and Alexander Lippisch developed a number of aircraft utilizing triangular planforms including a supersonic delta wing concept..... (I can send you the Electrogravitics report free if necessary. Send me an an address in Holland.) The truth is that British Aerospace and others have been working on similar propulsion systems for years and it is likely that these are advanced beyond our imagination. This has little to do with alien technology. Read 'Night Siege' by Imbrogno or Tony Gonsalves report into the Hudson Valley UFO flap. Boomerang-shaped aircraft with lights on the underside. A military UFO that reportedly left Philip Klass grasping for a solution........The UFO in question travelled slowly, did not perform staggering changes of direction etc. Even ground observers suspected that this was a type of blimp - albeit an advanced one. I have spoken to several witnesses who state that the craft they saw most closely resembled the B2 'stealth' bomber.......... This is the painful truth........ They've been flying their toys for 50 years and we have provided them with the perfect cover - ET spacecraft......... Now which respected Ufologist suggested in 1981 that UFOs were controlled not by an intelligence but by an intelligence agency? Answers on a postcard please! Tim M.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> [Tim Mathews] Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 01:34:59 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 11:28:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles > From: Xxyyxx <Xxyyxx@aol.com> > Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 21:10:14 EDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles > >From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> [Tim Matthews] > >To: <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Urgent - Talking Sense About Flying Triangles > >Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 02:13:43 +0100 > >Dear Updates, > >I read with interest the continuing confusion about flying > >triangles, both large and small. The nonsense talked about this > >subject is indicative of modern Ufology in that too many people > >believe (and that is the operative word) that these aircraft are > >'alien spaceships'. > <snip> > One of the best UpDates I've ever read.. > Have you written a book? Do you have an internet site? > dave bauer > (WA2YAS) Dear Dave, Thanks! My new book comes out late '98/early 99. It is called 'UFO Revelation - The Secret Technologies' and perhaps unsurprisingly argues that both flying saucers and flying triangles are of terrestrial origin. There is a fundamental confusion between saucers, triangles and aliens which is hardly ever addressed.... Tim Matthews.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 [bwwma] BWW Media Alert 19980502 From: BufoCalvin <BufoCalvin@aol.com> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 09:47:01 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 11:31:02 -0400 Subject: [bwwma] BWW Media Alert 19980502 Bufo Calvin P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com Website: <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin">http://members.aol.com/bufo calvin<;/a> ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that attribution is made to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with strangers before you e-mail them something. If you forward this, please make sure it is clear that you are forwarding it). May 2, 1998 A bit of a slow week. All times Pacific unless otherwise stated. TELEVISION THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL Sunday, May 3, 1:00 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: MONSTERS OF THE DEEP (sea monsters) Sunday, May 3, 1:30 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCES Sunday, May 3, 2:00 PM, STRANGE BUT TRUE: PSYCHIC DETECTIVE/GONE WITH THE WIND (London psychic, reincarnation) Sunday, May 3, 2:30 PM, ANIMAL X: GHOST AND PHANTOMS (includes black big cats in Ireland) THE LEARNING CHANNEL Sunday, May 3, 10:00 AM, THE CASE OF THE UFOS Sunday, May 3, 1:00 PM, ALIEN SECRETS: AREA 51 Sunday, May 3, 2:00 PM, THE UNEXPLAINED: UFOS VS. THE GOVERNMENT Tuesday, May 5, 7:00 PM, LOCH NESS SECRET Tuesday, May 5, 10:00 PM, LOCH NESS SECRET THE SCIENCE CHANNEL This one appears to actually be available now, at least through super-duper services. It runs the same schedule every Thursday, which is "paranormal Thursday". Basically, it's Arthur C. Clarke programming all the time (except for one other U.F.O. show). THE SCI-FI CHANNEL Continues SIGHTINGS re-runs every weekday at 5:00 PM and 9:00 PM (although not this Friday). Also, SIGHTINGS at 7:00 PM this Sunday, May 3. ___________________________ This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, t he week before. _____________________________ **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. For more information on OPUS, see its we bsite at http://members.aol.com/josephxx3
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 New UFO*BC Magazine - "Spring 98" From: UFO*BC <pengilly@axionet.com> [Dave Pengilly] Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 06:01:43 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 11:30:08 -0400 Subject: New UFO*BC Magazine - "Spring 98" The latest edition of our Quarterly Magazine has just been published. The cost is $5 an issue or $20 for a year's subscription. To order, please mail a cheque to the following address: UFO*BC, 1810 Hamilton Street, New Westminster, B.C. V3M 2P4 Our magazine can also be purchased at the following stores: Phoenix Books: 10202 - 152nd Street, Surrey Banyen Books: 2671 West Broadway, Vancouver Magpie Magazine Gallery: 1319 Commercial Drive, Vancouver Mayfair News: 1535 West Broadway, Vancouver News Hound Magazines: 2997 Granville, Vancouver Thank you for your time. Dave Pengilly UFO*BC
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Sat, 02 May 98 09:19:32 PDT Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 11:33:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles > Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 03:18:20 -0700 > From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles > > From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> [Tim Matthews] > > To: <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Urgent - Talking Sense About Flying Triangles > > Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 02:13:43 +0100 > <snippage> > > I must conclude that given this information, which is but a > > fraction of the overall evidence, that there is NO evidence that > > either flying saucers or flying triangles are of ET origin. In > > any case, both types are for use WITHIN an atmosphere. I hate to interrupt the self-congratulation here, but the boring facts of the matter are: (1) Every ufologist I know is well aware of the presence these days of advanced aircraft of UFO-like appearance. (2) Sightings of triangular objects go back to the early days of the UFO age, long before Stealth technology. Unless, of course, the witnesses and investigators back in those days were part of the big plot our friend is conjuring up. C'mon.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Re: Any More News Regarding Roswell? From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 11:35:23 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 13:16:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Any More News Regarding Roswell? >Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 23:40:08 -0400 >From: Lesley Cluff <manitou@fox.nstn.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: US UFO activity July 1947 Abstract from Ruppelt's book: "By the end of July 1947, the UFO securitylife was down tight. The few members of the press who did inquire about what the Air Force was doing got the same treatment that you would get today if you inquired about the number of thermonuclear weapons stock-piled in the US's atomic arsenal. No one, outside of a few high-ranking officers in the Pentagon, knew what the people in the barbed wire enclosed Quonset huts that housed the Air Technical Intelligence Center were thinking or doing." ..... I guess that could be nicely summed up as "the Pentagon being in a state of panic"! Seems logical to me! With all that activity, I'm surprised that Roswell was overlooked by Ruppelt. Or was it deliberately left out? With that much activity, was the ship that crashed one of a fleet? We tend to think of 'Roswell' as being a single anomolous event -- seems it was just the unlucky one!" --- Not surpriseing Roswell was not mentioned by Ruppelt. It had become a non-story after Ramey's press conference. And, there was no Roswell Incident report in the Blue Book file.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Re: Mach 50 Thunderdart From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 11:43:52 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 13:26:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Mach 50 Thunderdart >Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 23:13:59 -0700 >From: Baron Northrop <baron@anim.dreamworks.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Mach 50 Thunderdart In all this discussion about mach 50, 17-24000 mph and flying "intra-atmospheric", i.e., well below 50,000 ft.... no one seems tpo have made the connection between these high speeds and METEORS!. Everyone here knows what happens when meteors hit our atmosphere. The deeper they penetrate the hotter they get. The shuttle does it, you say, so why not everyone? Well, the shuttle is goig about 17,000 mph at altitudes above 100 miles. Then it slows, partly by allowing its surface to burn off and thereby remove kinetic energy against the "friction" of the air (heated to glowing plasma temperature). By the time the shuttle is below 10 miles altitude it is no longer going at 17,000 mph.... and you can guess why (would be one trip per shuttle/crew). For an a/c to approach Mach 50 in the atmosphere would be (a) dangerous (b) require special preparations for handling the very high temperatures (c) would not be able to communicate with the outside by radio (plasma blocks communications) (d) would glow..... _and_ would take tremendous energy/power to maintain such a speed in dense atmosphere. Time to go back to the drawing board and come up with another suggestion.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Re: Project Mogul a diversion? From: Ktperehwon <Ktperehwon@aol.com> [Karl Pflock] Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 12:31:28 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 13:55:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Project Mogul a diversion? >From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Project Mogul a diversion? >Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 07:12:02 +0100 >The whole Roswell debate seems to be divided between those who >support the alien crash-retrieval fantasy and some hard-nosed >skeptics who think that UFO sightings are all explainable, or >'debunkable'. Not so, Tim. I'm firmly convinced UFOs are real and some likely are--or, rather, were--craft from another world (see the capsule statement of my views below)--yet I'm equally convinced Roswell didn't involved the crash and retrieval of same, as are more than a few others who are not debunkers. In a nutshell, years of investigation and study (sometimes seems like centuries!) have, on the basis of the weight of the evidence, convinced me Mogul explains the debris and faulty memories and embellishing tellers of tall tales explain the bodies and all the rest--all this abetted by U.S. government secrecy, incompetence, and, above all, arrogance. -- Cheers, KARL (author of "Roswell in Perspective" ('94), still available from the Fund for UFO Research.) For what it's worth, KTP on UFOs: UFOs are real--that is, as yet unexplained phenomena. Moreover, many solid unknowns involving reports of strange craft and sometimes living creatures and/or physical evidence leave us with but two choices: hoax or real essentially as reported. In these instances, if what was encountered was real and reasonably accurately reported, it couldn't have been anything other than products of nonhuman intelligence and, in some cases, the intelligences themselves. Based on the data, I'm SUBjectively certain we've been visited by nonhuman intelligent beings*--to my '50s-conditioned mind, most likely from an extra-solar planet of our galaxy. However, we do not yet have PROOF of this--as opposed to very strong evidence pointing to it--though such proof very well may be in the data already in hand, as yet unrecognized as such. *But nonetheless completely open to evidence to the contrary.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 18:12:39 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 13:53:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles > Date: Sat, 02 May 98 09:19:32 PDT > > Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 03:18:20 -0700 > > From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl> > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles > > > From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> [Tim Matthews] > > > To: <updates@globalserve.net> > > > Subject: Urgent - Talking Sense About Flying Triangles > > > Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 02:13:43 +0100 > > <snippage> > > > I must conclude that given this information, which is but a > > > fraction of the overall evidence, that there is NO evidence that > > > either flying saucers or flying triangles are of ET origin. In > > > any case, both types are for use WITHIN an atmosphere. > I hate to interrupt the self-congratulation here, but the boring > facts of the matter are: > (1) Every ufologist I know is well aware of the presence these > days of advanced aircraft of UFO-like appearance. > (2) Sightings of triangular objects go back to the early days of > the UFO age, long before Stealth technology. Unless, of course, > the witnesses and investigators back in those days were part of > the big plot our friend is conjuring up. K, Jerry! Now that's what I call talkin' sense about triangles!!! Cheers,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Re: Carp Ontario 'Exposed'..... From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 18:30:54 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 13:11:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Carp Ontario 'Exposed'..... >Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 07:28:37 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: xzone@webgate.net [Rob McConnell] >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Carp Ontario 'Exposed'..... >[The following is posted despite lack of attribution headers > and _any_ quotes. It refers to: > >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:28:05 -0400 > >Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:28:05 -0400 > >Subject: Carp Ontario 'Exposed' - The 'Truth' Behind The Hoax > available at: > http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/apr/m30-007.shtml > -- ebk] >Greetings: >To say I was amused at the response to the J B Michaels book and >the participation of those involved would be an understatement. >But thank-you for randomly selecting me to receive this Update >from your organization. By the way, Toronto UFO Updates is one of >the better UFO mailing lists on the net. >I feel that the response that was issued was in no way an >embarrassment - but an enlightenment into the total lack of >integrity, professionalism, and credibility of some participants >in the UFO community, and how sensationalism is more important to >them, then the actual truth that they claim to be seeking. >If the explanation was so simple - why did it take two weeks for >a response? It would seem that if there was nothing to the book >and it's contents, that the reply issued in response to my >inquiries would have been immediate - but what this two week gap >would lead one to believe that the response took some thinking. >The fact that Michaels and Tom never met, and that the your reply >basically tells me that the book is fiction, makes me wonder how >many more UFO books, reports and sightings are mere fiction or >attempts by persons within the UFO community to gain through >sensationalism and bring attention to their quest. If anything, >the book and those involved - all levels of participation - have >done more to harm the UFO community than anything else... not to >mention the hard work and dedication that many serious, >responsible and professional people have put into credible >research and investigation. Rob...I personally just read Errol's post two days ago. I did not see your origional post. I don't know if you have seen the rebuttle of the book which I wrote as of this message or not. But, I can assure you that much of the material is definitely not so, especially when it comes to quoting details about me and my involvement in ufology. I won't repeat here, what I have previously posted, but hope you read that message and this one as well. >If the statements that J B Michaels said pertaining to Tom are >incorrect, was there - or has there been any legal litigation in >this matter? Tom and I talked about J.B's fictinalizing our characters right after the book came out. We both got a good laugh out of it. We didn't take it seriously. However, I can see your point regarding litigation. I know J.B. and will tell you that it would be easier to just forget it than make a big deal out of it. He is a very hard to catch up to. I have talked to his sister and other members of his family during the past. >I would like to give Tom the opportunity of coming on our show, >to tell our audience his side of the J B Michaels book during the >Carp Incident show and the arrangements can be made by direct >email to me. We have been trying to contact Mr. Michaels to get >his response but without any success. Yes, Tom would make a good guest. He can give you a lot of info about J.B. I suggest you follow up on this. <G> >Embarrassed? No. Proud, because as a journalists we have exposed >some more of the sensationalism and lack of integrity and >credibility that runs within certain sectors of the UFO community >that is causing more damage than the alleged government >conspiracies and cover-ups which are believed to be as real as >the aliens and UFO's they are concealing. Much of the information in the book, which dealt with individuals is pretty much factual. I personally investigated the Long Island SouthHaven Park incident. I talked to at least a half a dozen residents near the park. I did my investigation by phone. I gave J.B. some of my information, including names and phone numbers so he could check it out for himself. I have never talked to Mona Rowe, of Brookhaven Institute. I can't comment on the truthfullness of that info. Keep up the good work Rob. REgards, Mike The fastest way to respond to this message is through the ICQ Network. A message sent this way will go directly to my screen. If you have ICQ you can message me at ICQ#:7508455. If you don't have ICQ you can page me through: My Personal Communication Center: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/7508455 (go there and try it!) Or you can send me a regular e-mail to my EmailExpress address: 7508455@pager.mirabilis.com. Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/ Include your ICQ details in YOUR e-mail signature: http://www.icq.com/emailsig.html. My BBS Telephone Number is: (502) 683-3026 My Fax Number is: (502) 686-7394 My Home Telephone Number is: (502) 683-6811 Michael Christol ----------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 The 'Truth' About BUFORA? From: "Tim Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 03:21:20 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 13:58:46 -0400 Subject: The 'Truth' About BUFORA? Dear Researchers, I have read with some interest the recent discusssion about the current state of British Ufology. Now don't get me wrong, there are some excellent researchers over here - around 50 people if the truth be told. Some of these people are independent, some are members of local groups. Others are members of BUFORA - The British UFO Research Association. Our US colleagues need to know the truth about the current state of affairs within what is claimed to be the number #1 objective research body in the UK. I was a member for a year during which time I assisted the Director of Investigations with her research wherever possible. Whilst Gloria Dixon did, and continues to do, an excellent job with a timy number of other researchers, the 'organisation' has become a sick joke. In the last two years members have been treated with a shocking disregard. Imagine paying out =A320 a year to join. You get almost nothing in return. A couple of magazines a year, the chance to attend lectures in London (200 miles away from a mjaortiy of members) and the very occasional attempt at a regional lecture in Merseyside and the North East. I was shocked to find the depths of UFO politics within the organisation. This had been going on for years, according to several long-term members and the political mess reached a head in late 1997 after a series of resignations. The membership has largely been kept in the dark about this and over half the members have not renewed their membership. After all, what do they get for their money? Very little. Over the last ten years Jenny Randles, Britains' most respected member and a cooleague of mine, has recorded a weekly message on the BUFORA 'UFOCALL' service. This was set up with the intention of providing interested parties with a chance to keep up with the latest UFO activity and to raise money for the organisation. Just a couple of years ago this service raised =A35,000 for BUFORA and so it is safe to assume that over recent years tens of thousands have been raised. Where has all the money gone? BUFORA is currently in a financial mess with no money to print a new magazine or to pay its' officers. Several initiatives have been killed off, through a range of seemingly deliberate means. One such initiative was directed towards putting the several thousand BUFORA case files, lovingly collected over three decades, onto CD-ROM. The idea was that this should be sold to both members and public and serve as a resource for researchers everywhere. A good idea. Killed dead. One researcher, Matthew Williams, reportedly bought a CD writer to assist this effort only to be told that his services were no longer required. One prominent member, who had put BUFORA on the map to some extent through a succession of well-organised Conferences, was forced out by a shabby campaign waged against him.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Re: Max Burns From: Andy Roberts <Brigantia@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 13:32:14 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 14:20:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Max Burns >Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:21:25 -0400 >From: Miles Johnston <TMilesJ@compuserve.com> >Subject: Max Burns >Sheffield Incident Response To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> The current dialogue regarding the Sheffield UFO 'crash' case is important not only in itself but for its wider implications in the field of UFO studies. If I may, and as personal emails originating from myself are now being bandied about to 'prove' points in the Sheffield case, I'd like the opportunity to clear up some misunderstandings and to put certain matters into perspective. Firstly I would heartily recommend that anyone interested obtains both Dave Clar ke's *and* Max Burns' reports into the case. Trying to make your mind up from the fractured information on the Internet witho ut first seeing the source materials is likely to prove unproductive, if not baf fling. Burns and Johnston are being illogical in their claims that they are being 'sile nced'. That is not the issue at all. This whole argument is about the protocols for presenting evidence and proof, what constitutes same and the function of ufo logy. And you just thought it was an argument between ufologists! Are we in the subject just to make wild and unsubstantiated claims about UFOs coming from space being able to zap airplanes? Or are we involved to meticulously dissect witness claims *and* those of ufologists who reach conclusions which are not supported by facts? If any aliens are left after this process then fine. But you may all have noticed that in 41 years since Arnold, despite all the huff and puff, *no-one* has produced any conclusive evidence or proof for their existance. Therefore all such claims *and* their claimants should be rigorously interrogated. This is precisely the course of action Dave Clarke and myself have taken in this specific case. Max Burns has told many people in the past that he was going to make the Sheffield 'crash' into the 'British Roswell' (!). That statement is a witnessed fact. Obviously that in itself is a challenge to any sensible ufologist. What we have seen over the past year or so is Max attempting to play out this fantasy in the real world..... I offer selected comments on Miles' email..... >IS the Email Being Bugged????......I can only >surmise, that it may be due to this Sheffield incident involving >such sensitive issues, that even the "Psi-Corp" version of the >National Guard is out on this one. (I stand to be totally >corrected, as this is pure speculation). This really worries me - that Miles actually thinks that either his email regarding a minor UFO case is being bugged. By whom and for what reason Miles? This is shoddy, unsubstantiated thinking, the type of which clogs the UFO subject and prevents progress. In previous correspondence with Miles he has stated that 'certain' UFO researchers have had their houses 'torched' because of their interest and involvement. I *specifically* asked Miles for details of these crimes (because that is what he is alleging has taken place) so that I could investigate them and prove or disprove his allegations. He failed to reply. >Max has been subjected to severe personal attack on his report, >which is simply his report on an incident, involving RAF jets, >civilian aircraft, military helicopters, massive sonic booms of >unknown origin, the possible loss (NOT CRASH) of an RAF Tornado >attack interceptor aircraft, and the reported sighting of a >MASSIVE, quote "HUGE" triangular UFO hovering feet from houses in >Dronfield, near Sheffield. Any attacks made on Max's research have been because he is claiming things to be true which aren't. Put simply Max is saying that a Tornado jet was 'vanished' by a UFO - with loss of crew. He is saying that people have lost their lives because of a UFO incident. This is a very serious allegation to make. Max cannot back it up with *one* shred of evidence. Imagine, for a moment, that you have a husband in the RAF flying Tornadoes and you read that one has been abstracted by a UFO with full loss of life and that the RAF are covering it up. Would you like to hear these ravings with no proof? *All* we want is Max to provide evidence and proof of his claims. His 'report' into the Sheffield case is little more than a log of claimed sightings of various mundane aerial objects and a copy of the police log. It contains no logical, structured approach to the case and fails to back up his claims or personal beliefs. >Whether this meant ETs were involved is a matter for conjecture. Max *has* stated he believes ETs are involved. These are claims which researchers in England at least take seriously as something to be challenged remorselessly. We are not debunkers! We are concerned sceptics, experienced ufologists, who are thoroughly sick of wild allegations being made with no back up evidence or proof. Max and Miles do ufology a disservice with these claims. We are trying to redress the balance. This is *not* entertainment - Miles and Max - if you are going to make claims then you are going to have to produce evidence to support them. So far you have not. >Further attempts to discredit Max Burns, siting his arrest for a >drugs offence have been inaccuractly reported. These reports may >be subject to legal proceedings. Mr Burns was today again given >bail and will be fighting his case, at Sheffield Crown Court in >due course. If you see the email of mine which has been reposted by Miles you will note that we merely *note* Max's current circumstances, circumstances which he *freely* was telling all and sundry earlier this year. If you *want* some real meat then we have several witnesses to a conversation (at the 1997 BUFORA conference) regarding this case in which Max freely admitted to bribing a key witness with drugs to get information. I rest my case! >In essence he has stated that the drugs case is a dirty tricks >department operation in order to get him out of the way, so his >findings on the Incident will not be reported. Mr Burns has >already received a commendation after saving a policeman's life, >at great personal risk to himself, in a separate incident in the >Sheffield area. Yes, Max *believes* that it is all a set up to discredit him by the security services. He claims he will ask Tim Good to give evidence that this sort of thing happens. Why? Because he claims Tim Good is in fact working for the intelligence services himself! We look forward to the court case. Do you see how weird all this gets when we dig below the surface? If it wasn't for the fact that Max *himself* is connecting the alleged UFO incident with his unfortunate personal legal circumstances it would not merit a mention. However, if a researcher *himself* introduces something into a case then others who are investigating it have a right to comment. Because it is then a part of the case. It is also worth noting that the inference in both Miles' and Max's emails is that Dave Clarke, myself or Tim Matthews is working for the government in some way. Well, obviously Tim is! But I'm sorry to say we're not. Whereas Dave Clarke can refute Burns' claims by producing evidence unfortunately Johnstone and Burns can only claim that their critics are 'wrong' and so therefore must be working for the government. We wish! >It is hoped that Both Max Burns and David Clarke will be able to >argue their respective points of view, at a BUFORA meeting on May >2nd, in London. Fortunately Max has been prevented from speaking at this event. No doubt allegations of cover-up, censorship and repression will follow. In fact we are all for Max putting his case across in public. We *want* it to happen. But we want it to be a *two* sided debate involving the principal investigator, Dave Clarke, so that the audience see *both* sides of the coin. Unfortunately Max cannot accept this and has since thrown his teddy out of the pram, barraging BUFORA Council members with abusive and threatening phone calls. Yet again in this subject we are plagued by the forces of irrationality who expect to be able to make ludicrous claims and have them go unchallenged. Well, it's just not happening any more, certainly not in the UK. In the past year we have seen the rise of a new, highly critical and sceptical group of individuals who are devoting considerable time and energy to the detailed investigation of wild claims involving UFO incidents. Some ufologists may not like this way of looking at the subject. But we are satisfied that instead of floundering about in the ugly mire which is ufology the time has come to take a more pro-active role and to look carefully at wild claims and to present the counter-argument. Answers to all points raised in Max Burns' reply can be found above. Dave Clarke or myself will be happy to answer anyone's questions about this case, either on or off list. A full report on this case is available from Dave Clarke and it will also be featured in the next issue of the UK 'UFO' magazine as well as in Fortean Times. I am sure Dave will respond in his own time to this silliness. However it may not be today as he has gone to claim our 'expenses' from a shadowy figure at the local railway station. Happy Trails Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 New Russian UFO Crash From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 13:36:26 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 13:36:26 -0400 Subject: New Russian UFO Crash From: "Nikolay V. Subbotin" <Nikolay.Subbotin@psu.ru> To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>, Subject: New Russian UFO crash Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 22:22:51 +0500 Hi! Bachurin today has returned from Kazakhstan an Emil. On rather original confluence of circumstances, which details it (he) me asked to not retell, it (he) has appeared with group of the militarians on a place of recent accident a UFO. A figure from a nature and his (its) brief comments you will find in an applied figure. The special attention is necessary is to paid on symbols by (with) a Kosmolingva onboard UFO, which copy the information a Andre. The coordinates of a place of fall are known, however photographing with close distance is not obviously possible, as well as videoshooting. With approach (approximation) =D5=D6=C5=CE on 500 meters at the participants of expedition (dispatch) the strange burns on a body were formed, and a Emil has received a haemorrhage in eyes. I have photographed these burns on a colour film, as soon as I shall show and I shall print photos at once I shall send them in a KS. In this connection it would be very desirable to leave on the people engaged in photographing of ground from the space ships, there are bases to believe, that the photographing of this place from the companion will give positive results. Whether there are at somebody assumptions how it can be made? Besides, the information very closely is connected to kidnapping (abduction) and "pendat" a Valentich, and also supervision of similar objects above North Pole. Regards, Nikolay Subbotin
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net> Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 15:03:44 +0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 17:42:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> [Tim Matthews] >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Urgent - Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 02:13:43 +0100 Tim, If I understand you correctly to whole UFO phenomenon is just a misinterpretation of 'secret military research crafts'. Hmm... that is an interesting point of view. Let me see: 50, 40, 30 and 20 years ago: 1. WE had aerial vehicles of capabilities that would make modern avionics look like tricycles; 2. The WE has multiple personalities: the Americans had it, the British had it, the French had it. The only ones who seem not to have it are the guys from Belgium. That is quite understandable. NATO members in 1990 didn't have this 'need-to-know' clearance; 3. For more than 50, years multi-billion $ efforts to develop other technologies all over the world by different nations was just a prank played on credulous Ufologists; 4. Of course, you are the only person aware of this. Other intelligence agencies from other countries (who BTW do have the technology) caught the UFO bait. This is the perfect setup. 5. Phew, aliens are... irrelevant. All you paranoids should have known better, as Alienology is quite benign. Orson Wells has proven that with his 'War of the Worlds' broadcast. A couple of religious groups have also emphasized the harmlessness of the concept. It would be much more socially destabilizing to learn that we have atmospheric vehicles capable of getting us from New York to Paris in 15 minutes.
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Re: New Russian UFO Crash From: "Greg Jarikov" <greg@pop3.rcom.ru> Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 00:06:43 +0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 17:30:22 -0400 Subject: Re: New Russian UFO Crash >From: "Nikolay V. Subbotin" <Nikolay.Subbotin@psu.ru> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>, >Subject: New Russian UFO crash >Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 22:22:51 +0500 Dear List, Let me try to describe hand-written notes on the scan received from Nikolay Subbotin, Director of RUFORS (Sat, 2 May 1998 22:22:51): === cut === "The Zeppelin" in Tien-Shan. Natural boundary "Sh.-Mazar". East gorge. It is impossible to make photos. Victims exist. Marks are green Size is 620x120m The central part is broken off, probably by self-liquidator unit. The amazing effect is caused by high-intesive negative chronal field, up to a complete stop of all watches on distance 600 meters from object. Besides, the almost complete absence of a magnetic field on this distance is marked, even in samples of rocky breeds (diorites). [Figure] [Below under an arrow] "a trace of sliding". === cut === Emil Bachurin is famous Russian researcher, discoverer of "M-Zone" anomaly area. No news about this new crash has made Russian press, TV or news agencies until now. Best regards,
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Re: UK.UFO.NW -IRC- guest John Carpenter From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 19:31:05 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 17:35:14 -0400 Subject: Re: UK.UFO.NW -IRC- guest John Carpenter UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK Saturday 9th May 1998 United Kingdom UFO Network special guest: John Carpenter John will be answering your questions live in a moderated meeting starting at 11pm (UK time) Saturday 9th May 1998. Full connection details at foot of mail. -- BIOGRAPHY -- John Carpenter John S. Carpenter earned a Bachelor of Arts in Psychology as well as a Masters in Social Work in the 1970's. He has been trained in Clinical Hypnosis at the Menninger Clinic in Kansas. He has been providing therapy for a wide variety of psychiatric disorders and marital & family problems for 19 years. He began studying UFOs at age 8 and officially began investigations 10 years ago. He has received over 120 cases of alleged UFO abductions and performed hypnotherapy sessions to gather data. He lectures nationwide and overseas, describing incredible patterns of similarity among the data. He has appeared on TV and in documentaries as well as on radio and in magazines worldwide. He presented six papers at the prestigious M.I.T. conference in 1992. He writes an international column for the MUFON Journal and has been MUFON's Director of Abduction Research for the past 7 years. He has produced seven research videotapes on his work (all about 2 hours long): "Professional Workshop" "The Face in the Window" "Aliens Captured in Brazil?" "Multiple Participant Abductions" "Encounters in Australia" "Centuries of Contact" "The Light at the End of the Road (Joplin Spook Light)" --- If you are using one of the dedicated IRC programs such as the excellent MIRC available free from: http://www.mirc.co.uk/ enter one of the below irc server addresses into your program. The nearer the server to your location the faster the connection. If one fails then try another. MIRC is probably the best IRC program there is and it's free. To download MIRC for Win95 or Win 3.1/3.11 fully configured for connection goto: http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk Select the 'Download' button. To connect to the IRC channel using your java compatible web browser goto: http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk http://www.crowman.demon.co.uk -Chatnet Servers- LosAngeles.CA.US.ChatNet.Org Pocatello.ID.US.ChatNet.Org Chelmsford.MA.US.ChatNet.Org Louisville.KY.US.ChatNet.Org Portland.OR.US.Chatnet.Org SLC.UT.US.ChatNet.Org k9.chatnet.org Tupelo.MS.US.Chatnet.Org RockHill.SC.US.ChatNet.Org StLouis.MO.US.Chatnet.Org Pensacola.FL.US.ChatNet.org Chicago.IL.US.ChatNet.Org Skien.NO.EU.ChatNet.Org London.UK.EU.ChatNet.Org Dayton.OH.US.ChatNet.Org Scranton.PA.US.ChatNet.Org SF.CA.US.ChatNet.Org ChatWorld.ChatNet.Org WalnutCreek.CA.US.ChatNet.Org Times of the meeting will vary depending on your part of the world. We advise you to check for equivalent UK times.
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 eSufo - MGS Commentary/New images From: "David Watanabe" <davew@exosci.com> Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 17:48:05 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 17:48:05 -0400 Subject: eSufo - MGS Commentary/New images exoScience UFO * 5/1/98 * exosci.com/ufo * NEW CYDONIA IMAGES POSTED The images from the 3rd round of MGS Cydonia imaging are available. They are also of the Cydonia "City Square", and focus primarily on a structure sometimes referred to as the "Star", as it seemed to be a star-shaped pyramid. Of course, check it out at our site: http://exosci.com/probes/mgs/ * CYDONIA COMMENTARY Many people have been expecting some kind of commentary from me about the new Cydonia images. Indeed, I intended to write something, but have delayed such commentary for quite some time, partially due to the prospect of new Cydonia images (the final one just being published), but also because I was in the process of changing cities (I am now back in Calgary, AB) leaving me computerless and disoriented (wandering the world without aim or purpose!) for several days. Meaningless personal banter aside, I think all can agree that the images returned by MGS show no signs of artificiality. These formations are, as far as we can tell through visual observation, quite natural. Nevertheless, this is more complicated than it seems. Many people have speculated that the formations are in fact artificial, but have lost their 'edge' through erosion. They substantiate this claim by showing how features on the Face match the features of a human face. However, this logic is not sound. Firstly , the features of the Face are not symmetrical. Thus, they can not possibly be an artificial creation of a 'face'. Secondly, the Face would never have been noticed if it did not bear SOME resemblance to a human face. But just because such resemblance occurs does not mean there is any REAL correlation. Finally, one should realize that the perception of this Cydonia formation as a face only came about due to the chance occurance of light, shadow, and blurriness of the Viking image. The MGS images, under different lighting conditions, don't reveal a face, but still explain how the Viking images and the perceived face could come about. We should ultimately realize that had there been no Viking probe, but only the MGS, or even had the Viking probe taken the image at a different time of day, NO one would have noticed a face. This certainly negates the theory of Face advocates that the Face is some kind of 'message' to humanity. But to claim, as many people have done, that they have more faith in a low-resolution Viking image than they do in the high-resolution MGS image is absurd. To claim that the Face exists or once existed is absurd. One simply can not ignore newer, better data simply to perpetuate a myth based upon initially poor data. Any attempt to explain the perpetuation of this myth through conspiracies or whatever else is equally absurd. David Watanabe davew@exosci.com ____________________________________________________ exoScience UFO=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= http://exosci.com/ufo/ **************************************************** To SUBSCRIBE / UNSUBSCRIBE, send email to: davew@exosci.com with either "subscribe ufo" or "unsubscribe ufo" (no quotation marks) in the SUBJECT. **************************************************** To POST, send email for approval to:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 The 'Truth' About BUFORA? - Part 2 From: "Tim Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 07:49:43 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 17:40:34 -0400 Subject: The 'Truth' About BUFORA? - Part 2 Dear All, My previous posting on BUFORA was cut in half by my email system. Modern technology - ugh! I was saying that BUFORA is in a right mess and that we are expected to sit back and show loyalty to an organisation which has messed several of us around. I even made the mistake, which I now bitterly regret, of helping to send out the most recent edition of UFO Times - months ago. BUFORA still owes me =A332 for envelopes - but what's that amongst the thousands that have disappeared down the black hole? This is all rather shocking and I have no doubt that some UpDates readers will see this as politics as usual. Thing is, this is the kind of nonsense we have to put up with on a daily basis. What does BUFORA have to show for 30 years of effort at this stage? An almost inquorate council? Threats that the current financial mess might be resolved by attempts to wind the limited company up behind the remaining members' backs? Attempts to bar awkward members from renewing membership (awkard equals those who ask important questions)? Attempts to ban people from speaking at meetings? Pretending that it is business as usual? I hardly think so. Why is it that a former prominent council member told me that for years UFO research was not even discussed at council meetings? Just compare the BUFORA decline with relatively successful groups in the USA. OK, I'm sure there are politics but MUFON is organised to local county level! The Fund for UFO Research puts out some very impressive research as does the Centre for UFO Studies. In the UK something not unlike the Fund for UFO Research would suit many of us down to the ground - a concentration upon research and efforts to support new investigations. I am often told, by BUFORA members, that the structure exists to make the organisation great again. What structure? There isn't even a heirarchy - just a council of management. This shocking state of affairs must not be allowed to continue and members have the right to know what is being done, or not being done, with their money and in their name. Perhaps someone should call the trading standards agency? There is, however, light at the end of the tunnel. I understand that various people are getting together to sort all this out and to form a new rival national investigative body. I don't think we need to look far for suspects.......... I wish them well. I cannot help thinking that if just a few researchers can get together and formulate simple ground rules then progress can be made. This mess has become an international scandal - maybe it is time to wind BUFORA up and start over..... On a final note - do we really need a national group? What about an alliance of active researchers. That would be around 50 people most of whom known each other already...... Tim Matthews - ex BUFORA member.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Re: Rendlesham Unravelled - NOT From: Nemesis <nemesis@fastinternet.net.au> [Lawrie Willliams] Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 06:46:58 +1000 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 18:09:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Rendlesham Unravelled - NOT I have had many paranormal experiences personally, but I do not generally connect these with UFOs or aliens (I think other explanations apply to those), but sadly I have only briefly seen one UFO (at rendlesham forest a few weeks ago - interestingly there because that was the scene of the RAF Bentwaters incident). For the curious, I saw, for about 1 second, a silver ball about the size of my pinkie fingernail at arms length. This was on saturday 24th January 1998 at approximately 15:00hrs GMT. The object had an orange "quality" about it, as if it had a covering of a very thin orange glow like a plasma discharge effect lamp gives (except that they are usually blue of course). I say that I do not generally connect UFO matters with other paranormal things like ghosts of "magic", however, on this ocassion I did feel the strange mental sensation that this forest is a "magical" place. The only other time I have felt that sensation is in broceliande forest in brittanty, france (where there are magical matters connected with king arthur and where I DID witness some "real magic" happening - I went to one of the purportedly magical places in broceliand and did the required ritual to make rain, and it hailed from the clear blue hot summer sky!- great fun and I have no really acceptable rational explanation for it at all). One second isn't much time to see much of a UFO unfortunately, so I feel a bit cheated by the experience! cranialjax@cambs.net Kevin Slaney *** The Generally Weird Mailing List -- For posting rules & unsub info
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles From: Steve Neeley <stneeley@mail.bright.net> Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 16:44:23 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 17:50:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >From: Xxyyxx <Xxyyxx@aol.com> >Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 21:10:14 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >>From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> [Tim Matthews] >>To: <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Urgent - Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >>Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 02:13:43 +0100 >>Dear Updates, >>I read with interest the continuing confusion about flying >>triangles, both large and small. The nonsense talked about this >>subject is indicative of modern Ufology in that too many people >>believe (and that is the operative word) that these aircraft are >>'alien spaceships'. Dear UpDates, Whether the flying triangles represent alien technology or secret gov`t projects and which side your personal belief tends to fall is irrelevant. The major point is that no one "in the know" will say what they are and therefore the report of sights unusual are all we really can be certain of. Everything else is pure SPECULATION. Including who built it, and who is driving it. I urge everyone to step back and take note of the reality here. No definative proof of either theory has been accepted by the public at large. What we have are reports of sights both unusual and unknown. Urge your congressional representatives to push for legitimate official investgation into the entire UFO question. Pet theories are just like belly buttons,(everyone has one.) Steve from Ohio Steven J. Neeley, Director Ohio Skywatch International http://www.geocities.com/soho/5782 stneeley@bright.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Re: A New Study..... From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 14:25:15 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 18:25:55 -0400 Subject: Re: A New Study..... >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: A New Study (Follow Up to The Brookings Institute Stud y) >Date: Fri, 01 May 98 10:05:49 PDT > The point is simply this: that whoever made up the story > Mr. Lopez is passing on, he cannot be accused of having a > creative imagination. Besides being a BS artist, his > informant is a plagiarist. It appears that even liars have > fallen on hard times. Dear Jerry, Whatever we write will not change the actual truth, whatever is. The scientists, who collaborated analising samples from events closely related to UFO (including blood, hair and other matter), suddenly resigned from their academic and professional practises and traveled out of their living locations and came back changed. They ceased to collaborate with the researcher and were seen with several rogue UFO groups. From time to time they had been calling their former fellow researcher and onseveral ocassions talked about what is in the article. Most of the information in the article has been corroborated and the existence of the rogue groups and their connection to the local FBI office is well documented (one of their FBI agents is the MUFON state director for that location and was imposed there directly by Walt Andrus). We have been unable to corroborate the 'Smithsonian' allegation, although the whereabouts of several of the characters are known and the information about these characters has been corroborated. The importance of the information (even the degree of uncertainty on it) is that, policy making or not, the data gathering structure is in place and can be used to update the intelligence necessary to exert more control over politically sensitive investigation. I know that the way the article is written may sound as BS, even dislike it myself, but I cannot do better without compromising a source (I even had to delete some information at the expense of making is look a like a patch instead of a coherent article). I just put this information out (part confirmed and some not) to let the readers know that something may be cooking. Just don't be so overzealous in your quest for the truth to be too smart to forget being intelligent enough to read between the lines and understand. Certainly is wise to question, but it can be premature to dispatch as BS and plagiarism information whose content is mostly documented. Better let the science in the methods of historical investigation complete its work than doing like in the middle ages when whatever that was not explainable in terms of the four elements and the humors was not part of the reality. Don't let your own preconceptions blind you. I just wish that anyone with information on this that can verify or not the contents on the article can share with all of us. We can uncover something important or expose a disinformation structure. I'll send your response to UFOR. Francisco
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 20:06:03 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 20:21:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >Date: Sat, 02 May 98 09:19:32 PDT >I hate to interrupt the self-congratulation here, but the boring >facts of the matter are: >(1) Every ufologist I know is well aware of the presence these >days of advanced aircraft of UFO-like appearance. >(2) Sightings of triangular objects go back to the early days of >the UFO age, long before Stealth technology. Unless, of course, >the witnesses and investigators back in those days were part of >the big plot our friend is conjuring up. >C'mon. >Jerry Clark Oh, I don't know...the F117's were stationed in England in 1968. That's a full ten years before President Jimmy Carter "Let it slip" that we were "developing" stealth technolody." If they were stationed there in 68' then when was the R&D done? When was it first built; when was it first flight tested? How many years was it in production prior to being shipped over to England, far away from American Press and UFO Investigators? This, like the SR-71, appears to have been "1950's" Technology! Maybe "earlier". REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles From: UFOLAWYER1 <UFOLAWYER1@aol.com> [Peter Gersten] Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 18:38:26 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 20:28:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 15:03:44 +0600 >>From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> [Tim Matthews] >>To: <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Urgent - Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >>Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 02:13:43 +0100 >Tim, >If I understand you correctly to whole UFO phenomenon is just a >misinterpretation of 'secret military research crafts'. Hmm... >that is an interesting point of view. >Let me see: 50, 40, 30 and 20 years ago: Actually I believe Tim is referring to the triangular/v-shaped/boomerang/delta UFO which came into prominence in the 80s and is still being seen in the 90s. It would appear that given two inferences to draw from the evidence, one terrestrial and the other extraterrestrial...we should draw the more logical terrestrial explanation...at least until proven otherwise. At the present time the evidence suggests either an unusual type of military aircraft and/or the mis-identification of a group 5-9 small planes flying in unusual formations to either deceive the public or provide a smokescreen for the delta shaped aircraft....usually seen in the general vicinity. Peter
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Re: eSufo - MGS Commentary/New images From: "Rick Savard" <tcdone@inland.net> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 16:19:50 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 20:40:52 -0400 Subject: Re: eSufo - MGS Commentary/New images >From: "David Watanabe" <davew@exosci.com> >Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 >Subject: eSufo - MGS Commentary / New images >To: UFO@exosci.com <snip> > * CYDONIA COMMENTARY > Many people have been expecting some kind of commentary from me > about the new Cydonia images. Indeed, I intended to write > something, but have delayed such commentary for quite some time, <snip> > Meaningless personal banter aside, I think all can agree that the > images returned by MGS show no signs of artificiality. These > formations are, as far as we can tell through visual observation, > quite natural. Nevertheless, this is more complicated than it > seems. > Many people have speculated that the formations are in fact > artificial, but have lost their 'edge' through erosion. They > substantiate this claim by showing how features on the Face match > the features of a human face. However, this logic is not sound. I have not had an opportunity to discover who you are, or why 'many people' would have been expecting, or, as you seem to imply, anxiously awaiting your commentary on the MGS images. It is obvious that you are unqualified or worse yet, unscientific about the process. It is _far_from_clear_ that what we are seeing in these images are natural. And, you will have a hard time getting agreement from the hundreds of researchers that have spotted clear anomalies. To the contrary, there are so many anomalies in these images, it is truly hard to believe that anyone would be able to conclude that all is natural or normal. There are only two possibilities here: 1) What we are seeing are some of the strangest and most interesting geological processes ever encountered or; 2) We are seeing the remnants of a several hundred thousand to several million year-old civilization. Either way, it is extremely interesting research. There are so many fields of specialty required to properly analyze what we may have here (geology, planetary science, astronomy, image analysis and process, telecommunications, philosophy, history, archeology, etc., etc.) that it would be impossible to print the complete and true story in anything less than years. And, all of this wonderful science has to be performed in an environment of ridicule, non-cooperation, snap judgements and disinformation. Science is not an overnight process, or even a two week process. Analyzing these images is going to take considerable time and effort. This is partially because the image quality is so poor compared to what we got and rightly expected. First, the resolution of the images is half of what it could be. This strange truth is fully admitted by Mr. Malin himself. (http://barsoom.msss.com/mars/global_surveyor/camera/images/size_ of_image.html ). Granted, it is much better than any Viking image we have. However, combine the resolution downgrade, the extremely low grey level results, the reduction in image width, the non-release of the wide-angle images of Cydonia taken at the same time, and you can understand why many of us are quite dissatisfied. We will have to spend considerably more time proving any case that might eventually be made for artificiality. Because of this additional time and effort required, there will be a delay in making any real case. Many, obviously including you, will be lost in this ever faster paced environment. The fact is, there are enough anomalies in these images to keep hundreds of researchers busy for many, many months to come. Only those with an agenda will have made any conclusions at this point. Surely no one expected to see highways, shopping malls and amuzement parks littering the terrain at Cydonia. It would appear that we got exactly what we expected (the quality of the images not withstanding) -- highly eroded geological formations OR highly eroded structures scattered about. It is simply not possible to eliminate the artificial hypothesis at this point -- too many questions still need to be answered. I can only hope that, as I suspect, your comments don't mean much to many, and that those truly interested in the inevitable, eventual truth, whichever way it goes, will hang in there and wait for the real science to run its course. Stay connected... Rick Savard tcdone@inland.net http://www.mufor.org/ares Near Pathfinder Anomaly Analysis Group Mars Surface Anomaly Analysis Group -------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Re: Rendlesham Unravelled -NOT From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 20:43:41 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 21:17:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Rendlesham Unravelled -NOT Regarding... >From: georgina@easynet.co.uk [Georgina Bruni] >Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:13:26 +0100 >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Rendlesham Unravelled -NOT Georgina wrote: >Ufologists waited in anticipation.... I doubt it! >when armchair researcher, James Easton... LOL! As they say, life's a bitch. On the 25th April, discussing with Peter Brookesmith some queries re the Orford Ness lighthouse and Shipwash lightship, I wrote to Peter: "I think it's come to the point where I need to go down there and sort this out for myself. [...] I intend to make the pilgrimage next weekend". So, following a couple of days and nights spent touring this most pleasant area with my son, taking the opportunity to visit key sites in the story and acquire some relevant local knowledge, I'm writing from a hotel room in Woodbridge, on the 'Boyz Go To Bentwaters '98 Tour'. Let me know if you want the t-shirt! >...announced through the Internet that he was about to disclose new >information that would seriously question the Rendlesham Forest UFO >witness statements. >When his paper, titled "Rendlesham Unravelled" was posted to all and >sundry, it turned out to be "not quite" what some had expected. I'll bet. Still, it did 'disclose new information that would seriously question the Rendlesham Forest UFO witness statements'. >Whilst Easton has done a good job in bringing his findings to the >public forum... His armchair is suitably amused. >Using one of the original "Rendlesham" researchers as back up, >namely, Jenny Randles, to verify his case, certainly helped to >promote it, but it hasn't amused Ms Randles. The only private quote I had 'used' with Jenny's permission was a brief extract from her summary that: "Now Rendlesham is at best half the case it was and may turn out to have been little of substance after all. Its likelihood of being a real alien contact was never high and is now almost zero. If it proves even less than that then any honest UFOlogist should seriously think about the subject they consider so all important. Might it not be that its importance is not as they assume? And you can quote me on that". Any further references come from Jenny's books and are sourced. >She quotes: >"My principle concern, whilst I applaud equally James Easton's >attempts to solve this case, is that I feel he has been >misrepresenting me. See above. I think you'll find that Jenny's main concern is that there are still some issues she doesn't believe have been resolved. As Jenny knows, we hardly disagree on most aspects of the case, however, it's up to Jenny if she wishes to express all of Jenny Randles' views. >Ian Ridpath informs via e-mail.... >'James Easton has now found contemporary documents that the airmen >and Charles Halt knew the flashing light they were chasing was the >lighthouse all along....they admit they eventually did manage to >identify the light.' >Has anyone confirmed this with the witnesses? See 'Rendlesham Unravelled' for further insight. >Says Jenny Randles. "Right from the beginning, Burroughs and >Penniston had always insisted that their statements were not the full >story and were watered down. This is hugely debatable, however... >James Easton's paper does pose serious questions that have yet to be >answered by the principal witnesses. Yes... they remain unanswered. >There's also the facts about the witness statements which I explained >to him, but that do not appear in his paper. >So why didn't he mention this in his paper ? It's not clear where you are quoting Jenny or adding to her remarks. Again, I have neither the obligation or the time to cover Jenny's lengthy musings, not all of which would necessarily be accepted as 'facts'. Jenny is quite capable of speaking for herself. As noted, I had incorporated her summary conclusions, which were in response to being sent a draft of 'Rendlesham Unravelled'. >When I alerted Colonel (Ret) Charles Halt to the fact that Easton had >been provided with these statements, he was most alarmed and replied. You(?) 'alerted' him? >"How did he get them, I'm the only one who has those statements." And the reason that Halt, celebrated critic of the 'cover up', seems to object to this information being made public is...? >So who leaked these statements out? 'Leaked', as in someone disclosed evidence that wasn't supposed to be revealed? Isn't the question why, during the past 18 years, they weren't publicly volunteered as evidence. >The originals did indeed contain a hand written note on one of the >statements, namely Cabansag's... This is incorrect. Four of the five statements in fact contain Halt's brief, hand written notes. >...in which Halt writes: that he doesn't think that he (Cabansag) is >telling the full story. >Why has Easton failed to mention this vital piece of information ? Why would Halt's opinion, as opposed to the detailed, documented account from Cabansag himself, be comparatively vital? I have in private correspondence with several people mentioned these notes and the problem they posed. Coincidentally, I did so in that same letter to Peter Brookesmith and referring to Chris Armold's published recollections, which come up again in a moment, stated: "As you will see from the published testimony, he claims Burroughs was prone to overreacting, which is exactly what Halt has noted on the copy of Burroughs' statement. I excluded Halt's hand-written notes from any photocopies or scans of that statement I made available. I would have to consider them too personal for publication". Well, maybe it's regrettably now necessary to clarify that Halt seems to have forgotten exactly what he wrote about Burroughs and Penniston, not entirely complimentary in both cases. Halt's opinions or character assessments were either of no relative importance in view of other developments or were considered too personal to publish in public without his express permission. He is more than welcome to confirm what his notes contain, although infinitely more appreciated would of course be his response to the many questions raised by the original witness affidavits he holds. Incidentally, thank you for helping to further corroborate that these documents originated from Halt. >Another witness that Easton produces is Chris Arnold who claims he >was the one who made the report to the Suffolk Constabulary. That >may well be genuine. It looks that way and was the only reference I made to Chris Arnold. It helps tie-up the correct dating of both incidents, which are wrong in Halt's memo to the MoD. >Halt confirmed that Arnold was at the Woodbridge base that night, but >insists he was NOT involved in the incident. I hadn't claimed he was, so why bring it up? >Why didn't Easton mention the Arnold letters in his paper? I don't understand, unless you haven't read 'Rendlesham Unravelled' and are oblivious that other than the above noted and undisputed point, Chris Arnold isn't in fact produced as a 'witness' at all. >No offense to Ridpath, but as a researcher myself, I don't pay too >much attention to TV shows on this subject . Give me the facts >please! Assuming you had read 'Rendlesham Unravelled', which seems to be debatable, you had significant new facts and in apparently speaking to Col. Halt, an appropriate opportunity. What did you do with them? We of course look forward to an appropriate update and corrections appearing in a forthcoming 'Hot Gossip'. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Re: Max Burns From: David Clarke <dclarke14@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 20:07:50 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 21:33:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Max Burns From Dave Clarke, Sheffield, UK Well everyone has now had the chance to read the long nonsensical rant by Max Burns - who is obviously "well rattled" (as they say round here) because his spurious claims have been questioned and shot down in proverbial flames. I think we can see where Max is coming from by his first reference to myself , viz Dave Clarke "who has also supposedly been carrying out extensive research" into the Sheffield UFO crash incident. Supposedly, eh? So I just "supposedly" pursuaded an MP to raise questions twice in the House of Parliament on the events and forced the MOD to admit they DID carry out a previously denied military exercise over the north of England on the night of this alleged crash? This is REAL research work - not loony speculation about space aliens in triangles. Readers of my previous UFO Updates postings on this case, with the sampling of my extensive research and investigation, might like to ponder on Max's use of the word "supposedly." I must have been dreaming then over the last 12 months, when right from day one, and in my employment as a news reporter for the Sheffield Star I just "supposedly" wrote the first story ever to appear in print on the case (pg 1 The Star, March 25, 1997), I just supposedly penned a 25 page investigation report for BUFORA in June 1997, I just supposedly acted as consultant to the BBC1 Mysteries episode on the case (November 1997) just "supposedly" contacted, all the 20 plus witnesses and countless police, RAF, fire and mountain rescue personnel (presumably I've just made up all the three notebooks full of shorthand notes from these people??) Well first of all let's establish my credentials and why I feel I have the right to comment authoritatively on this case. The facts are, whether Max, Miles or any of the other post-X-Files re-write UFO history brigade like it or not, I have been actively investigating UFO claims for more than half my adult life, more than 15 years. I have written five books on the subject, the first of which was published in 1990 and entitled Phantoms of the Sky (Robert Hale, London), and is even today being cited as recommended reading by authors such as Peter Brookesmith and Paul Devereux. In addition, I have contributed to many other books including Fortean Times 1947-87, BUFORA's Phenomenon and penned literally dozens of research and investigation articles on the subject, not just in newspapers but in journals ranging from Fortean Times to UFO Magazine, and interviewed literally hundreds, if not thousands of witnesses the length and breadth of the country as my extensive files of statements and taped transcripts testify. Not only am I actively involved in research and investigation (to the extent that I graduate to PhD in tradition and folklore of the subject at Sheffield University this year), but I am paid to investigate and write about the subject too via my work capacity as a journalist, which has provided me with extensive contacts within the RAF, armed services, emergency services and House of Parliament. As a testament to my experience, I was asked by BUFORA to become Press Officer for the association earlier this year and took up the offer. Hardly an offer that would be made to someone with no experience or credibility, as Max would have it. Despite Max's naive claims to the contrary, being interested in UFOs does not mean you have to believe in Extraterrestrials piloting them. This is juvenile talk. Do you have to believe in God to write about religion? Come off it Max, who are you kidding? I don't wish to bore readers of UFO UpDates with too much detail, but lets cut away the drivel and reduce this case to one of two possibilites. First there is Max's claim - viz.that the event was caused when a 300plus foot Extraterrestrial triangular flying object was being chased across the Pennines by both (according to Max) a light plane and a squadron of RAF Tornados. Said slow-moving ET craft then shot down (or "vanished") one of the pursuing Tornados, which subsequently disappeared off the face of the earth or crashed into a reservoir near Sheffield. It's pilot and co-pilot were killed and recovered in secret by the X-File blue beret crash retrieval team. Despite the two pilots deaths, this earth shattering news never reached the national media or the families of the two unfortunate pilots. Let's subject this claim to critical scrutiny. Who saw this UFO shoot down/capture/vanish this Tornado fighter? Answer: not one single witness. Who saw the wreckage of this aircraft, or the bodies of these pilots being recovered? Answer: Not one single witness. Who is claiming this happened? Answer: Max Burns and Miles Johnston. Not one of the original witnesses, any of the residents, the police, or anyone else have ever claimed any UFO involvement in this case before these two ET believers got themselves in a tizzy about it. Right from the word go, everyone knew the incident was caused by a low-flying aeroplane until the UFO buffs turned up on the scene. The most Max can say in his defence is that he knows of three witnesses who saw flying triangular shaped objects in the sky that night. Max has only spoken to two of these witnesses, and one of those two is a personal friend of his. She saw the triangle at 9.30, half an hour before the supposed "crash" occured, at exactly the same time when we know two RAF Tornado strike aircraft were operating at 250ft on a low-flying exercise above Derbyshire. I say she saw an RAF aircraft, and I challenge anyone to prove otherwise. So that's all we have to back Max's claims. Three sightings of triangular shaped objects, none of them at the time of the alleged "crash", and all three of them were more than likely misidentified aircraft. Secondly, these are the conclusions I have reached, and I challenge any rational, sane human being to claim there is more evidence for Max's ET triangle than there is for what follows: Despite what Max and his supporters claim, the event which sparked this whole "crash" mystery occurred around 10.06 pm when a group of witnesses, including a police special constable, saw what they described as a low-flying aircraft pass overhead and appear to crash into the moors west of Sheffield, followed by a loud bang and flash. The bang coincided with the second of two sonic booms recorded by the British Geological Survey in Edinburgh, the first being at 9.52 pm, 14 minutes previously. Subsequently, emergency services from four counties (2 helicopters, 141 mountain rescue personnel, 100 plus police, fire and dog handlers, etc) scoured 40-50 square miles of moors, but found no trace of any crash, and called the operation off 15 hours later, about 2pm the next day. Although the RAF denied at the time they were exercising, the BGS confirmed officially that the sonic booms "could only have been caused by a military aircraft reaching supersonic speed possibly while performing a mid-air turn." Exactly a year later, I enlisted my MP Helen Jackson to question the MOD in Parliament about the cause of the event. Mrs Jackson tabled 7 questions about the event, and asked a further question one week later. In reply Labour Under Secretary for Defence John Spellar admitted that a number of military aircraft were taking part in a low-flying night exercise over the Peak District on the evening of March 24, 1997, in preparation for possible outbreak of hostilities in the Gulf. Aircraft, including two GR1 Tornado bomber from RAF Marham in Norfolk were involved in low-flying training exercises during this exercise as low as 250ft in altittude, just minutes before the "sightings" and explosions reported by members of the public in Derbyshire and South Yorkshire. After the MOD made these admission I gained direct access to the RAF's Press Office in Whitehall and asked the current incumbent Alan Patterson directly if these aircraft had been scrambled to intercept a triangular shaped UFO as per Max Burns' claims. The answer was an unequivocal denial - no this was just a pre-planned and pre-booked training exercise. No aircraft were lost, there were no accidents, no pilots died. If this denial is a lie, it can and will be challenged in Parliament and would no doubt lead to the fall of Britain's elected Government if and when the bereaved families of the two Tornado pilots who were "vanished" begin to ask where their husbands and fathers have been for the past year. That's basically it. The Sheffield "crash" was, as they say in Full Monty Land, "summat and nowt". Max Burns and Miles Johnston can rant and rave all they like about this case, but all it comes over as is just sour grapes. They have not done any kind of investigation worth its salt, they have started off with a belief system and made up the evidence to fit it as they have gone along, ignored all the evidence and eyetwitness testimony that dosen't fit their theory, and set their target on me for daring to put an alternative point of view to the unsubstantiated claims they have been peddling. Max's naive statement "Why does it have to be something else? Why can't what witnesses say they saw be exactly what they say they saw?" exactly sums up the case. Why should we believe every wild and outrageous claim that people make? If someone came into my newspaper office claiming they saw a pink elephant floating past would I have to accept that was literally what they had seen? And if I wrote a story claiming "Sheffield Man Saw Pink Elephant - There's No Doubt About it Because he says so", I wouldn't be holding down a job very long. Our function in Ufology, as Andy Roberts rightly points out, should be to rigorously question every wild and uncorroborated claim, and not be afraid to question witnesses and evidence to reach the TRUTH. Anything else is just succumbing to irrational belief. I rest my case. But two final brief points: 1. Max in his rant claims the copy of the CID log on the Sheffield incident I sent him was fabricated by myself for some bizarre reason. The fact is that it was given to me in Hammerton Road Police Station by Detective Inspector Christine Wallace on the afternoon of 29 March 1997, and in fact contains her own handwriting in the margin. Perhaps Max might like address his claims to Det Insp Wallace? 2. Max and Miles claim that I have "innacurately reported" details of his charge for an alleged offence and pending trial in private correspondence. Not so. All the details I have reported are accurate and straight from the charge sheet held by Sheffield Magistrates Court. Any "legal action" which might be likely in respect of this would be directed against both Max and Miles for discussing details of the prosecution and defence evidence in public before it is heard before a jury - it is what is known in English law as "prejudice". It is not against the law to report that someone has appeared in court charged with an alleged offence, as reports of this kind appear every day in thousands of local and national newspapers. . It is against the law, as Max and Miles have done, to claim that person was "set up" etc etc as they have done to all and sundry via the Internet before the trial is held. This kind of claim is surely prejudicial and unfair on the other two defendants in the case who have not had the opportunity to put their defence before the trial later this year. If Max did not want his legal situation airing in public, he should not have raised it in the first place and used it to claim he was being "harrassed" by the authorities due to his involvement in the Sheffield incident. He can't have it both ways.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Philip Klass' 10 Principles For 'Investigating' From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 22:54:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 22:54:07 -0400 Subject: Philip Klass' 10 Principles For 'Investigating' From: Tim Printy's Astroscopers Web Page http://members.aol.com/TPrinty/index.html Worth a visit for the tasty music and some quite beautiful comet pictures. ebk ___________________________________________________ Philip Klass' 10 Principles For Investigating UFOs These are taken from the book, 'UFOs Explained' by Philip Klass. 1. Basically honest and intelligent persons who are suddenly exposed to a brief, unexpected event, especially one that involves an unfamiliar object, may be grossly inaccurate in trying to describe precisely what they have seen. 2. Despite the intrinsic limitations of human perception when exposed to brief, unexpected and unusual events, some details recalled by the observer may be reasonably accurate. The problem facing the UFO investigator is to try to distinguish between those details that are accurate and those that are grossly inaccurate. This may be impossible until the true identity of the UFO can be determined, so that in some cases this poses an insoluble problem. 3. If a person observing an unusual or unfamiliar object concludes that it is probably a spaceship from another world, he can readily adduce that the object is reacting to his presence or actions when in reality there is absolutely no cause-effect relationship. 4. News media that give great prominence to a UFO report when it is first received, subsequently devote little if any space or time to reporting a prosaic explanation for the case when all the facts are uncovered. 5. No human observer, including experienced flight crews, can accurately estimate either the distance/altitude or the size of an unfamiliar object in the sky, unless it is in very close proximity to a familiar object whose size or altitude is known. 6. Once news media coverage leads the public to believe that UFOs may be in the vicinity, there are numerous natural and man-made objects which, especially when seen at night, can take on unusual characteristics in the minds of hopeful viewers. Their UFO reports in turn add to the mass excitement which encourages still more observers to watch for UFOs. This situation feeds upon itself until such time as the news media lose interest in the subject, and then the "flap" quickly runs out of steam. 7. In attempting to determine whether a UFO report is a hoax, an investigator should rely on physical evidence, or the lack of it where evidence should exist, and should not depend on character endorsements of the principals involved. 8. The inability of even experienced investigators to fully and positively explain a UFO report for lack of sufficient information, even after a rigorous effort, does not really provide evidence to support the hypothesis that spaceships from other worlds are visiting the Earth. 9. Whenever a light is sighted in the night skies that is believed to be a UFO and this is reported to a radar operator, who is asked to search his scope for an unknown target, almost invariably an "unknown" target will be found. Conversely, if an unusual target is spotted on a radarscope at night that is suspected of being a UFO, an observer is dispatched or asked to search for a light in the night sky, almost invariably a visual sighting will be made. 10. Many UFO cases seem puzzling and unexplainable simply because case investigators have failed to devote a sufficiently rigorous effort to the investigation. Go back to my UFO page
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles From: Kerry Ferrand <kferrand@rocketmail.com> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 19:33:52 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 23:06:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles > Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 20:06:03 -0400 (EDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles I couldnt let this one slip past > Oh, I don't know...the F117's were stationed in England in 1968. > That's a full ten years before President Jimmy Carter "Let it > slip" that we were "developing" stealth technolody." > If they were stationed there in 68' then when was the R&D done? > When was it first built; when was it first flight tested? > How many years was it in production prior to being shipped over > to England, far away from American Press and UFO Investigators? I can assure you that no F-117 existed before the 1980s, the computer algorithms for predicting radar returns that were crucial in its design were developed in the early 70s by a Russian gentleman. The HAVE BLUE prototypes that were designed with US software derived from the above didn't fly until the late 70s. First F-117A rolled off the line in 1981. Having been in contact with people involved in the program, I see no reason to doubt this timeline.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 2 Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles From: Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 22:53:14 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 23:05:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles With the compliments of the Duke of Mendoza: >Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 20:06:03 -0400 (EDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >Oh, I don't know...the F117's were stationed in England in 1968. >That's a full ten years before President Jimmy Carter "Let it >slip" that we were "developing" stealth technolody." Not so. The F-117A Nighthawk, code-named "Senior Trend", developed out of the "Have Blue" stealth program at Groom Lake. Lockheed was given the contract to begin *preliminary design work* on Senior Trend on 16 November 1978. The success of Have Blue's faceted design was probably the basis of Carter's little slip in 1978. The first production Nighthawks were delivered to what became 4452d Test Squadron in Spring & Summer 1982. For conspiracists everywhere, btw, 4452 called themselves "The Goatsuckers". In the mid-to-late 1980s, there were rumors in the trade that F117As were flying out of the Suffolk USAF bases in the UK, for spying missions over Eastern Europe. Sorry, Mike: you're 20 years off target here. best Papoose D. Machrihanish Range Finder
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 3 Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 23:02:42 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 01:45:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 22:53:14 -0400 >From: Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] >Subject: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >With the compliments of the Duke of Mendoza: >>Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 20:06:03 -0400 (EDT) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >>Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >>Oh, I don't know...the F117's were stationed in England in 1968. >>That's a full ten years before President Jimmy Carter "Let it >>slip" that we were "developing" stealth technolody." >Not so. The F-117A Nighthawk, code-named "Senior Trend", >developed out of the "Have Blue" stealth program at Groom Lake. >Lockheed was given the contract to begin *preliminary design >work* on Senior Trend on 16 November 1978. The success of Have >Blue's faceted design was probably the basis of Carter's little >slip in 1978. <snip> Thanks for your remarks. I will make a concerted effort to find my information. I have it in written form somewhere in my archives. If it shows that I have erred, I will say so...but if it verify's my statments, then I will consider posting it for discussion. Let me see where this leads us. <G> REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 3 Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 22:58:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 01:43:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 19:33:52 -0700 (PDT) >From: Kerry Ferrand <kferrand@rocketmail.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 20:06:03 -0400 (EDT) >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >I couldnt let this one slip past >> Oh, I don't know...the F117's were stationed in England in 1968. >> That's a full ten years before President Jimmy Carter "Let it >> slip" that we were "developing" stealth technolody." >> If they were stationed there in 68' then when was the R&D done? >> When was it first built; when was it first flight tested? >> How many years was it in production prior to being shipped over >> to England, far away from American Press and UFO Investigators? >I can assure you that no F-117 existed before the 1980s, the >computer algorithms for predicting radar returns that were >crucial in its design were developed in the early 70s by a >Russian gentleman. >The HAVE BLUE prototypes that were designed with US software >derived from the above didn't fly until the late 70s. First >F-117A rolled off the line in 1981. Having been in contact with >people involved in the program, I see no reason to doubt this >timeline. IF you are so certain that you have the facts, please provide us with the information which will verify this. At the same time, I will look for my information, for verification. REgards, Mike If you have ICQ you can message me at ICQ#:7508455. If you don't have ICQ you can page me through: My Personal Communication Center: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/7508455 Or you can send me a regular e-mail to my EmailExpress address: 7508455@pager.mirabilis.com. My BBS Telephone Number is: (502) 683-3026 My Fax Number is: (502) 686-7394 My Home Telephone Number is: (502) 683-6811 Michael Christol ----------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 3 Re: Philip Klass' 10 Principles For From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 21:45:03 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 01:38:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Philip Klass' 10 Principles For > From: Tim Printy's Astroscopers Web Page > http://members.aol.com/TPrinty/index.html > Worth a visit for the tasty music and some quite beautiful > comet pictures. > ebk > ___________________________________________________ > Philip Klass' 10 Principles For Investigating UFOs > These are taken from the book, 'UFOs Explained' by Philip Klass. > 1. Basically honest and intelligent persons who are suddenly > exposed to a brief, unexpected event, especially one that > involves an unfamiliar object, may be grossly inaccurate in > trying to describe precisely what they have seen. How difficult is it to describe a saucer/cylindrical/triangular/shape-shifting, silver/black/white-light object that is so-big when held at arm's length? > 2. Despite the intrinsic limitations of human perception when > exposed to brief, unexpected and unusual events, some details > recalled by the observer may be reasonably accurate. The problem > facing the UFO investigator is to try to distinguish between > those details that are accurate and those that are grossly > inaccurate. This may be impossible until the true identity of the > UFO can be determined, so that in some cases this poses an > insoluble problem. In other words, we'll declare this an "insoluble problem", based on an assumption and therefore very neatly sweep the sighting under the carpet. > 3. If a person observing an unusual or unfamiliar object > concludes that it is probably a spaceship from another world, he > can readily adduce that the object is reacting to his presence or > actions when in reality there is absolutely no cause-effect > relationship. It's a little hard to "adduce" anything else when you flash your flashlight three times and the spaceship flashes back three times. Or when the darn thing follows your car for miles. > 4. News media that give great prominence to a UFO report when it > is first received, subsequently devote little if any space or > time to reporting a prosaic explanation for the case when all the > facts are uncovered. Neither do they report failed prosaic explanations when their lunacy has been revealed. > 5. No human observer, including experienced flight crews, can > accurately estimate either the distance/altitude or the size of > an unfamiliar object in the sky, unless it is in very close > proximity to a familiar object whose size or altitude is known. So what? A spaceship that's 30 feet in diameter is just as much a spaceship as one that's 300 feet in diameter. As we womenfolk know, "size doesn't matter". > 6. Once news media coverage leads the public to believe that UFOs > may be in the vicinity, there are numerous natural and man-made > objects which, especially when seen at night, can take on unusual > characteristics in the minds of hopeful viewers. Their UFO > reports in turn add to the mass excitement which encourages still > more observers to watch for UFOs. This situation feeds upon > itself until such time as the news media lose interest in the > subject, and then the "flap" quickly runs out of steam. Does this mean that only the first reported sighting is to be taken seriously? Not that Klass takes any of them seriously... Of course, if people are outside watching the skies, they _are_ more likely to have a sighting. > 7. In attempting to determine whether a UFO report is a hoax, an > investigator should rely on physical evidence, or the lack of it > where evidence should exist, and should not depend on character > endorsements of the principals involved. Yup, let's discount a witness who is known to be of impeccable integrity because someone decides what evidence "should" be present. > 8. The inability of even experienced investigators to fully and > positively explain a UFO report for lack of sufficient > information, even after a rigorous effort, does not really > provide evidence to support the hypothesis that spaceships from > other worlds are visiting the Earth. No, but those sharp right-angle turns at Mach extremo get me every time! > 9. Whenever a light is sighted in the night skies that is > believed to be a UFO and this is reported to a radar operator, > who is asked to search his scope for an unknown target, almost > invariably an "unknown" target will be found. Conversely, if an > unusual target is spotted on a radarscope at night that is > suspected of being a UFO, an observer is dispatched or asked to > search for a light in the night sky, almost invariably a visual > sighting will be made. Excuse me? Is this saying what I think it is? That radar operators and ground observers _always_ agree on the "unknown" status of an event regardless of who initiates the inquiry? Is this statement supposed to have some significance? And if it does, it seems to be arguing a position that Klass wouldn't agree with. If ground observers also see the "unknown," then it can't be a radar echo. If radar confirms the sighting by ground observers, then it can't be the ever popular hallucination or flap feeding frenzy hypothesis. > 10. Many UFO cases seem puzzling and unexplainable simply because > case investigators have failed to devote a sufficiently rigorous > effort to the investigation. That's right...if we hunt long enough (or absurdly enough) we can always find that odd stray planet or lighthouse to explain the unexplained. There's that great line from George Knapp's series on UFOs..."It was amazing...the night Venus landed on the gypsum flats of New Mexico." LOL! -- Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> ICQ Pager 6797092
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 3 Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles From: Steve Neeley <stneeley@mail.bright.net> Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 02:35:54 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 02:52:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >From: Xxyyxx <Xxyyxx@aol.com> >Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 21:10:14 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >>From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> [Tim Matthews] >>To: <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Urgent - Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >>Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 02:13:43 +0100 >>I read with interest the continuing confusion about flying >>triangles, both large and small. The nonsense talked about this >>subject is indicative of modern Ufology in that too many people >>believe (and that is the operative word) that these aircraft are >>'alien spaceships'. Whether the flying triangles represent alien technology or secret gov`t projects and which side your personal belief tends to fall is irrelevant. The major point is that no one "in the know" will say what they are and therefore the report of sights unusual are all we really can be certain of. Everything else is pure SPECULATION. Including who built it, and who is driving it. I urge everyone to step back and take note of the reality here. No definative proof of either theory has been accepted by the public at large. What we have are reports of sights both unusual and unknown. Urge your congressional representatives to push for legitimate official investgation into the entire UFO question. Pet theories are just like belly buttons,(everyone has one.) Steve from Ohio Steven J. Neeley, Director Ohio Skywatch International http://www.geocities.com/soho/5782 stneeley@bright.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 3 Re: Astronomers Find Evidence of Planet From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 10:43:09 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 08:05:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Astronomers Find Evidence of Planet Rebecca Schatte writes: >From: RSchatte <RSchatte@aol.com> [Rebecca] >Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:57:18 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Fwd: Astronomers Find Evidence of Planet >From: AOL News <AOLNews@aol.com> >Return-path: <AOLNews@aol.com> >Subject: Astronomers Find Evidence of Planet >Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:47:31 EDT >Astronomers Find Evidence of Planet >.c The Associated Press > By PAUL RECER >WASHINGTON (AP) - Signs of a new family of planets orbiting a >distant star are the clearest evidence yet of worlds forming >beyond our solar system and suggest that planets where life could >evolve may exist throughout the universe, astronomers say. <snipped> Additional information from the San Francisco Chronicle concerning these important discoveries. Stig ******* Planets In the Making Dust around 3 stars points to new solar systems David Perlman, Chronicle Science Editor Wednesday,=BFApril 22, 1998 =A91998 San Francisco Chronicle URL: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=3D/chronicle/archive/1998/0 4/22/MN70805.DTL Astronomers training powerful telescopes on regions within Earth's own Milky Way galaxy announced with high excitement yesterday that they have discovered huge disklike structures of dust that may be new solar systems forming around three sunlike stars. The disks hold evidence that more than one rocky planet may have already formed from the swirling material around at least two of the stars. And the astronomers believe that full-scale planetary systems may be in the process of forming around all three stars, as well as around a fourth where the scientists found hints of dust more than a dozen years ago. The discoveries could profoundly change humanity's view of Earth's solar system as a unique cluster of planets in a single obscure corner of the Milky Way, for scientists are now becoming convinced that entire planetary systems are everywhere in the heavens -- perhaps surrounding more than half of all the 100 billion known stars in the galaxy. And if those systems have developed to hold worlds much like Earth -- complete with water and Earthlike atmospheres -- then life, too, could be ubiquitous, many astronomers believe. One team of American and British astronomers using the 15-meter James Clerk Maxwell telescope atop the extinct Mauna Kea volcano in Hawaii said yesterday that it has found the disks of dust and possibly tiny rocks surrounding two of the brightest stars in the heavens -- Vega and Fomalhaut. Another group used the new 10-meter Keck II telescope at Mauna Kea as well as the 4-meter Blanco Telescope at the mountaintop Cerro Tololo Observatory in Chile to discover a similar disk around a much fainter star known as HR4796A in the southern constellation Centaurus. The fourth "protoplanetary" disk -- as these swirling masses of dust are called -- surrounds the well-known star Beta Pictoris. Preliminary evidence for it was first detected 14 years ago. "These exciting discoveries raise profound questions about the ubiquity of planets throughout the galaxy," said Geoffrey Marcy, the San Francisco State University astronomer who with colleague Paul Butler astonished the world less than two years ago by discovering evidence for four giant gas planets like Jupiter and Saturn surrounding nearby stars only a few tens of light-years from Earth. Marcy is not part of the teams that announced their findings yesterday, but in an interview he noted that he and his colleagues are sampling 400 other stars within 100 light-years of Earth in the expectation of finding still more giant planets. "What's quite profound," Marcy said, "is to find that the process of planetary formation may be going on right now, and that the process can exist within these dusty disks for tens of millions of years -- certainly long enough to form Earthlike planets. "And if, as we now believe strongly, these protoplanetary disks are really a dime a dozen in the galaxy, then it must mean that there are hundreds of millions of terrestrial planets out there." The team of British and American astronomers that discovered the dusk disks around Fomalhaut and Vega, and who had earlier observed similar evidence around Beta Pictoris, used a device called a Submillimeter Common User Bolometer Array, an instrument cooled to temperatures barely above absolute zero -- 459 degrees below zero Fahrenheit -- and thus able to measure tiny amounts of heat emission from small dust particles surrounding the stars. According to Wayne Holland, leader of the science team at Hawaii's Joint Astronomy Center on Mauna Kea, the disk around the star Fomalhaut contained an unexpected hole within the dust -- a finding that intensified the team's excitement. "One of the most striking features we see there is the central hole," Holland told reporters. "The lack of bright emission close to the star suggests that the dust there is largely cleared out, and a probable explanation is that it has formed into rocky planets like the Earth, even though we can't detect these directly." Michael Werner of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, another member of the team that discovered the disk around HR4796A, said: "This may be what our own solar system looked like at the end of its main planetary formation phase." All the discoveries reported yesterday involved dust disks -- or more possibly newly-evolving planetary systems -- far larger than Earth's own solar system. They surround very young stars only tens to hundreds of millions of years old. By comparison, Earth's own sun is about 4.5 billion years old, and Earth itself probably formed from its own "protoplanetary" disk of dust and gas only about 100 million years later. The stars with their newly-discovered dust disks described yesterday appear to be only a few tens of millions of years old, the astronomers said --just the right time scale for new solar systems to begin forming and for their first planets to sweep up surrounding dust through gravitational attraction. The scientists describing their discoveries around Vega and Fomalhaut have published a formal report on their work in today's issue of the journal Nature, while the astronomers from the University of Florida and Harvard who announced their discovery of the dust disk around the star HR4796A have submitted their report to Astrophysical Journal Letters. Unlike the instrument in Hawaii used to observe Fomalhaut and Vega, the Harvard/Florida team made its observations of HR4796A in the infrared region of the spectrum, measuring heat emitted by the dust in the disk as it was warmed by the light from the star itself. --- According to Charles Telesco, the University of Florida leader of the team, the group has detected "indirect evidence" of at least one fully-formed planet within the disk. The illuminated dust, he said, contained a void very much like the wake of a ship, and that void is typical of what would be left after a new-forming planet swept up material from its surroundings by gravitational attraction. "We're speculating that the dust material is silicate," Telesco said, "and it has formed a disk that is three times as large as our own solar system. The hole we see in its center may in fact well be a planet, but we can't see it directly." =A91998 San Francisco Chronicle=BF Page=BFA1
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 3 Re: Astronomers Find Evidence Of Planet From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 11:17:48 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 08:07:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Astronomers Find Evidence Of Planet Below is an abstract of the letter published in Nature April 23, concerning 3 circumstellar debris disks of dust that possibly indicate the existence of Earth-like planets. URL: http://www.nature.com/Nature2/serve?SID=3D43516012&CAT=3DTOC&PG=3D19980423/s= um 788.html Stig ******* Submillimetre images of dusty debris around nearby stars Indirect detections of massive - presumably Jupiter-like - planets orbiting nearby Sun-like stars have recently been reported. Rocky, Earth-like planets are much more difficult to detect, but clues to their possible existence can nevertheless be obtained from observations of the circumstellar debris disks of dust from which they form. The presence of such disks has been inferred from excess far-infrared emission but, with the exception of b Pictoris, it has proved difficult to image these structures directly as starlight dominates the faint light scattered by the dust. A more promising approach is to attempt to image the thermal emission from the dust grains at submillimetre wavelengths. Here the authors present images of such emission around Fomalhaut, b Pictoris and Vega. For each star, dust emission is detected from regions comparable in size to the Suns Kuiper belt of comets. The total dust mass surrounding each star is only a few lunar masses, so any Earth-like planets present must already have formed. The presence of the central cavity, approximately the size of Neptunes orbit, that the authors detect in the emission from Fomalhaut may indeed be the signature of such planets. W S Holland, J S Greaves, B Zuckerman, R A Webb, C McCarthy, I M Coulson, D M Walther, W R F Dent, W K Gear & I Robson Submillimetre images of dusty debris around nearby stars (Letter to Nature) Nature 392, 788 (1998) Nature =A9 Macmillan Publishers Ltd. 1998 Registered No. 785998 England.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 3 Yellow Falls, Texas From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 03:27:17 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 08:25:26 -0400 Subject: Yellow Falls, Texas Dear list members : Do any of you have a clue where "Yellow Falls, Texas " is? In descending order of likelihood, Yellow Falls is: 1) A small oil-town .. possibly a ghost town by now. 2) The name of some oilfield, mostly depleted by late 1957 3) The name of an individual oil-rig, oil well or the like. 4), A (now defunct) oil drilling or exploration concern. 5) Some Texas-style name for warm beer and/or kinky sex. Any help with the geographical location of options 1 through 4 will be greatly appreciated; #5 won't help at all. All standard geographical references have already been checked A back-search through the literature ( Magonia, Perego etc. ) has also reached a dead end. Numerous emails to likely Chambers-of-Commerce and oil-industry websites have led nowhere to date. I need to establish longitude and latitude. Best Wishes - Larry Hatch < larryhat@jps.net >
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 3 A Few List Stats From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 08:24:29 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 08:24:29 -0400 Subject: A Few List Stats o Since its inception on March 1st 1996 has had almost 2,000 subscribers. o Currently the number lurks a tad under 1,OOO o At the beginning of April the 'Hit' counter at Ufomind passed the 50,000 mark o This message will be the 10,000 that Ufomind will have received at the UpDates Archive o I've received something like six hundred 'bounce' notices - I used to keep 'em all <sheepish smile> To all subscribers who've contributed to these stats: Thank _You_ ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 5 Apple-O-Gees From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 14:27:52 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 14:27:52 -0400 Subject: Apple-O-Gees Gentle Subscribers, Sorry about the 36 hours off and missing yesterday (Monday). I'd planned to be back at the keyboard last night and to be caught up by midnight - <sigh> Today's mail will be slightly more than is usual.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 5 Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 22:56:55 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 15:00:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles Dear All, There appears to be a great deal of misunderstanding about flying triangles. If any subscriber wants detailed answers to questions then they can email me; matthews@zetnet.co.uk Tim Matthews
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 5 Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 22:54:36 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 14:51:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles > Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 15:03:44 +0600 > >From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> [Tim Matthews] > >To: <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Urgent - Talking Sense About Flying Triangles > >Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 02:13:43 +0100 > Tim, > If I understand you correctly to whole UFO phenomenon is just a > misinterpretation of 'secret military research crafts'. Hmm... > that is an interesting point of view. > Let me see: 50, 40, 30 and 20 years ago: > 1. WE had aerial vehicles of capabilities that would make modern > avionics look like tricycles; > 2. The WE has multiple personalities: the Americans had it, the > British had it, the French had it. The only ones who seem not to > have it are the guys from Belgium. That is quite understandable. > NATO members in 1990 didn't have this 'need-to-know' clearance; > 3. For more than 50, years multi-billion $ efforts to develop > other technologies all over the world by different nations was > just a prank played on credulous Ufologists; > 4. Of course, you are the only person aware of this. Other > intelligence agencies from other countries (who BTW do have the > technology) caught the UFO bait. This is the perfect setup. > 5. Phew, aliens are... irrelevant. All you paranoids should have > known better, as Alienology is quite benign. Orson Wells has > proven that with his 'War of the Worlds' broadcast. A couple of > religious groups have also emphasized the harmlessness of the > concept. It would be much more socially destabilizing to learn > that we have atmospheric vehicles capable of getting us from New > York to Paris in 15 minutes. Dear X, Never said that aliens are 'irrelevant'. 60 years ago scientists in Germany were working upon a variety of triangular aircraft including the boomerang flying wings of the Hortens which were very advanced. The technology was captured by the allies - much of it was taken to the US and developed within the White Sands Proving Ground - focal point for part of the immediate postwar UFO flap....... Can't say too much more otherwise the message will not be posted. Belgium - read my book when it comes out! Tim Matthews
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 5 Re: Max Burns From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 22:30:01 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 14:46:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Max Burns > Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 20:07:50 -0400 > From: David Clarke <dclarke14@compuserve.com> > Subject: Reply to Max's Rant > To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> > >From Dave Clarke, Sheffield, UK > Well everyone has now had the chance to read the long nonsensical > rant by Max Burns - who is obviously "well rattled" (as they say > round here) because his spurious claims have been questioned and > shot down in proverbial flames. <snip> Dear All, Max Burns rang Eric Morris of the British UFO Studies Centre last night and shouted that he had found 'definitive and undeniable proof' (no where have I heard that before?) that an RAF Tornado had been lost in said 'incident'. We have the tape..... What with personnel from a certain magazine picking up 'ground traces' (sheep droppings and bracken) a week after the 'incident' (sonic boom) and Burns rantings it is lucky for Ufology that both Andy Roberts and Dave Clarke has carried out this brilliant research Burns and his supporters are entirely given over to fantasy. Back at the BUFORA (ugh!) Conference last August my wife and I, along with several others, were accosted by Burns. He not only claimed to have 'local mafia protection' but added that he had 'bribed one of the witnesses with cannabis'. Max can try and sue me if he likes, but the evidence is clear.... Yes, folks, it's all true I'm afraid. This, unlike all too much of the Burns/Johnston report, is verifiable, supportable, factual and true...... It's people like this who make me wonder why I don't become a trainspotter. Having said that, my MI5 pay cheque ensures a comfortable lifestyle....... Tim Matthews. ----------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 5 Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net> Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 11:50:13 +0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 15:01:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >From: UFOLAWYER1 <UFOLAWYER1@aol.com> [Peter Gersten] >Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 18:38:26 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >>Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 15:03:44 +0600 >>>From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> [Tim Matthews] >>>To: <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: Urgent - Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >>>Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 02:13:43 +0100 >Actually I believe Tim is referring to the >triangular/v-shaped/boomerang/delta UFO which came into >prominence in the 80s and is still being seen in the 90s. It >would appear that given two inferences to draw from the evidence, >one terrestrial and the other extraterrestrial...we should draw >the more logical terrestrial explanation...at least until proven >otherwise. At the present time the evidence suggests either an >unusual type of military aircraft and/or the mis-identification >of a group 5-9 small planes flying in unusual formations to >either deceive the public or provide a smokescreen for the delta >shaped aircraft....usually seen in the general vicinity. Peter, Tim wrote the following: >>In addition to this we have several declassified studies from the >>1950s stating that a flying saucer might form the basis of an >>interceptor aircraft based upon electrostatic propulsion. That >>was then and no doubt they had problems. What about now 40 years >>later given billions of dollars of secret funding and the >>opportunity for scientists to develop new technologies without >>the usual restraints? >>I must conclude that given this information, which is but a >>fraction of the overall evidence, that there is NO evidence that >>either flying saucers or flying triangles are of ET origin. In >>any case, both types are for use WITHIN an atmosphere. That is why I wrote my post: looked to me as an acute case of over-generalization. Some UFOs must be misinterpreted secret military aircrafts, but not ALL the UFOs. And I fail to see the soundness of taking a ride in the park with a multi-million $ gadget just to make tests in psychological warfare. Please read Tim's post entirely.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 5 Re: Max Burns From: Andy Roberts <Brigantia@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 07:36:36 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 14:56:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Max Burns >Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:21:25 -0400 >From: Miles Johnston <TMilesJ@compuserve.com> >Subject: Re: Max Burns To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> Further to previous postings regarding the Sheffield UFO incident from both Miles Johnston and Max Burns, I would like to offer an update on the current situation. I received a phone call from Max this morning. In the course of our perfectly amicable conversation Max stated that he now has 'inconclusive', 'incontrovertible' proof (not just evidence, note, but proof) that a Tornado jet was involved with a triangular alien craft last March over the Peak District area of England, and that crew and jet were shot down/vanished by the alien craft. Furthermore he claims he can now, once and for all, prove that the RAF covered this amazing incident up and that the UK government lied openly in the House of Commons. Max would not reveal any facts for us to check at this moment in time. However he did say that he had revealed them to Graham Birdsall, editor of UFO magazine, and that Graham had agreed that Max 'had something'. Comments Graham? When pressed further Max would only say that his new information came from the 'highest source' and was from someone who was 'highly placed' enough to give this information. This is not proof though, as I pointed out to Max. Unless this is backed up (at least) by a paper trail and corroborative statements Max's source is just another narrative. But Max claims he has the proof we desperately crave. List members with any interest in this case will realise that for *any* of Max's claims to be proven he needs to supply the following details: 1) Which airfield the Tornado was flying out of 2) The specific registration details of the jet 3) The name of the pilot and co-pilot If Max can provide those details and if our research demonstrates a) Such a jet existed b) Such named crew existed c) Such a jet and crew are no longer in existence then, and only then, will we give any credence to Max's claims. Furthermore even if Max *can* prove the above he still has to prove that crew and plane were involved with alien technology as he claims. Max is now claiming that he will reveal his 'conclusive proof' publically within the next three weeks. Exactly how or where he won't say but we believe he will be contacting the News of the World this week to see if they are interested. And this raises another interesting point. *If* Max has proof that alien technology has destroyed a jet and crew and that this fact has been covered by by the RAF and lied about by the government in the House of Commons, why is he bothering to debate the point with either ufologists or trashy tabloid newspapers? Any major newspaper or TV station would be be only too happy to reveal this to their customers. It also became starkly clear during our conversation that Max believes the only reason he has experienced considerable resistance to his exotic claims is that Dave Clarke and myself are working for and funded by the security services. He cannot accept that anyone could contest his wild claims *unless* they were government agents! Think about that for a while. I am sorry to bore list members with the ongoing details of this case but I feel it is relevant. If *any* of what Max claims is true it makes Roswell look tame. I firmly believe that ufologists should be able to see the development of a case, what evidence and proof is presented and how it is challenged. Anything else is just fluff! Happy Trails Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 5 Re: New Russian UFO Crash From: drumpunk@frontiernet.net [Cody Smith] Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 11:56:46 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 15:04:43 -0400 Subject: Re: New Russian UFO Crash >From: "Greg Jarikov" <greg@pop3.rcom.ru> >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: New Russian UFO Crash >Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 00:06:43 +0400 >>From: "Nikolay V. Subbotin" <Nikolay.Subbotin@psu.ru> >>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>, >>Subject: New Russian UFO crash >>Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 22:22:51 +0500 >Dear List, >Let me try to describe hand-written notes on the scan received >from Nikolay Subbotin, Director of RUFORS (Sat, 2 May 1998 >22:22:51): >=== cut === >"The Zeppelin" in Tien-Shan. >Natural boundary "Sh.-Mazar". East gorge. >It is impossible to make photos. Victims exist. >Marks are green >Size is 620x120m >The central part is broken off, probably by self-liquidator >unit. >The amazing effect is caused by high-intesive negative chronal >field, up to a complete stop of all watches on distance 600 >meters from object. >Besides, the almost complete absence of a magnetic field on this >distance is marked, even in samples of rocky breeds (diorites). >[Figure] >[Below under an arrow] "a trace of sliding". >=== cut === >Emil Bachurin is famous Russian researcher, discoverer of >"M-Zone" anomaly area. >No news about this new crash has made Russian press, TV or >news agencies until now. Is there a URL on the web that has some info about this incident?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 5 British Newspaper Prints 'Best Ever' Footage! From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 02:16:40 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 14:58:43 -0400 Subject: British Newspaper Prints 'Best Ever' Footage! News of the World 'Exclusive'. Various claims about David Spoor's UFO video footage were made today in a feature on pp.36-7 of the News of the World - not a paper exactly known for its' objectivity. Yet again, ufology is included with sex scandals, silly stories and a total lack of factual reporting. At least the sports pages get the football results right. The footage, filmed last year by David Spoor in Suffolk is claimed by Graham Birdsall to be: "absolutely amazing...the most striking UK footage I have ever seen" whilst Nick Redfern says that: "I firmly believe this is extra-terrestrial" Nick also makes the knowledge claim that the military 'does not have' anything like this. How does he know? Why is this footage said to show ET spacecraft? Most importantly why does the report state that Nick was given unprecedented access to previously classified files? He has the same access as me or anybody else at the PRO. If he has better access then I think it is time for some serious questions...... As to the footage, quite clearly the light-coloured object could be an aircraft, or just about anything, and the segments showing 'triangles' do not appear to be very clear either. Once again, sightings of flying triangles under escort by RAF aircraft in East Anglia are IGNORED! Beyond the purely speculative how can Redfern/Birdsall claim that the military has little or nor control over violations (I assume by alien craft) of UK airspace? Several researchers believe that sightings of structured craft, including flying triangles, are of no defence significance precisely because upper echelons of the military/industrial complex knows what they are. Once again nobody ever answers my point that on many occasions these flying triangles have been seen to be escorted by RAF Tornados. Why is this view stifled by the UFO research community and WHY, when I have evidence of secret testing in the Irish Sea are my views never heard? Having said that, the footage is not clear enough. I wonder what real experts will have to say about this. Finally, have RAF aircraft been scrambled to intercept these alien vehicles? I wonder why not........ Tim Matthews, Lancashire UFO Society/British UFO Studies Centre
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 5 Re: Yellow Falls, Texas From: Rob Meyer <robmeyer@sedona.net> Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 09:16:16 -0700 (MST) Fwd Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 15:06:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Yellow Falls, Texas >Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 03:27:17 -0700 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >Dear list members : >Do any of you have a clue where "Yellow Falls, Texas " is? >In descending order of likelihood, Yellow Falls is: >1) A small oil-town .. possibly a ghost town by now. >2) The name of some oilfield, mostly depleted by late 1957 >3) The name of an individual oil-rig, oil well or the like. >4), A (now defunct) oil drilling or exploration concern. >5) Some Texas-style name for warm beer and/or kinky sex. >Any help with the geographical location of options 1 through >4 will be greatly appreciated; #5 won't help at all. >All standard geographical references have already been >checked A back-search through the literature >( Magonia, Perego etc. ) has also reached a dead end. Larry will check into this have many researcher in Texas and will e-mail out to them.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 5 Fastest Aircraft Engine is Russian From: authority@webtv.net (Doc in Phoenix) Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 11:04:20 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 15:19:49 -0400 Subject: Fastest Aircraft Engine is Russian Attn: Pratt & Whitney -- General Electric From: http://www.blackvault.com/foia/usaf/russian_aircraft_engine.shtml John Greenewald, Jr., who operates the Black Vault website (greatest FOIA archive on earth), with his usual persistence, has uncovered the truth of this previous rumor. It isn't a rumor anymore. The Engine for the Fastest Aircraft in the World is Russian http://www.blackvault.com/foia/usaf/russian_aircraft_engine.shtml
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 5 Anglican Bishops Believe In Alien Life From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch) Date: 03 May 98 11:30:00 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 15:21:14 -0400 Subject: Anglican Bishops Believe In Alien Life Date: 03 May 98 19:43:00 GMT From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de <Joachim Koch> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: ANGLICAN BISHOPS BELIEVE IN ALIEN LIFE ANGLICAN BISHOPS BELIEVE IN ALIEN LIFE Based on story By MAURICE CHITTENDEN March 22, 1998 A recent survey of 42 Anglican (Church of England) bishops by the Sunday Times revealed that 40 of them, or 95%, believe in the possibility of alien life on other worlds. Thirty-one, or 74%, said some of that alien life might be intelligent. These beliefs are seen as a departure from traditional church dogma which holds that man is unique in the cosmos and created in the image of God. According to Henry Richmond, Bishop of Repton, "Alien life forms could exist. I'd like to think that ETs were human-like but we might have to adjust our ideas and recognise that even little green men are another form of intelligent life that we oughtn't to feel threatened by." Michael Turnbull, Bishop of Durham, said the discovery of other life could be a positive force. "God created all life. If it were possible to engage with life on other planets it would open our lives to the greater wonders of God's creation." Most of those surveyed agree that the discovery of alien life would require a reappraisal of traditional doctrine. On the question of whether God might personally visit other worlds, Mark Green, Assistant Bishop of Chichester, said, "I would not be shocked if he had. If he has children on different planets he would visit them, the way a father would visit his children in different parts of the country." According to Lindsay Urwin, Bishop of Horsham, "Religion has never just simply looked at the Earth to learn about [God]. The Bible says the heavens declare the glory of God and I would say that whatever is up there declares the glory of God." Frank Weston, Bishop of Knaresborough, agreed. "I am happy with an expanding universe and I am happy with universes beyond this one. God is an almighty creator and you can't limit his creativity. There must be life in other ways. I am rather excited about it." --------------------------------------------------------------------- This has been posted to the CSETI Website at http://www.cseti.org/position/addition/anglican.htm Thanks to Neil Cunningham and Ron Russell www.cropcircles.org PO Box 40307 Denver, CO 80204 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Joachim Koch ---
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 5 Arthur C. Clarke On Europa Line From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 00:40:59 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 15:28:08 -0400 Subject: Arthur C. Clarke On Europa Line >From CSETI's site. URL: http://www.cseti.org/position/addition/clarke.htm Thanks to "Sightings On Radio" http://www.sightings.com for the link. Stig ******* Arthur C. Clarke, inventor of the geo-stationary satellite and author of "2001, A Space Odyssey", commenting on NASA spacecraft Galileo's photos of Jupiter's moon Europa. "Running right across one of the pictures is an absolutely straight narrow line, and if you saw this you'd say, well, that's obviously a highway or a railroad track, and no-one can explain it - it's about 200 km long and its dead straight except for a slight wriggle where there's sort of a change of terrain, and we're all very, very puzzled about this and in fact I'm beginning to think the unthinkable." from The Learning Channel, "The Sci-Fi files, Spaceships and Aliens". April 1998 Note: Europa is about the same size as the Earth's moon.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 5 Montauk Files 'Hacked'? From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 23:17:45 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 16:38:27 -0400 Subject: Montauk Files 'Hacked'? Received via the Skyopen mailing list May 3 at 22.43 local time (GMT + 1 hour). Stig ******* Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 14:09:40 -0500 From: "Skywatch International Inc." <jhickman@itlnet.net> To: "sky open list" <skyopen@unix.ltlb.com> Subject: (Skyopen) Fw: CLASSIFIED FILES HACKED From: MRS LOUISE A LOWRY <SHORT_AND_SASSY@prodigy.com> Date: Sunday, May 03, 1998 12:15 PM Subject: CLASSIFIED FILES HACKED This information is forwarded from John Quinn J9Aq9@aol.com MONTAUK PROJECT UPDATE-- April 30, 1998 MAJOR PENTAGON COMPUTER BREAK-IN Security Thoroughly Compromised Within the past few weeks, two people described as "kids" hacked their way into a thoroughly encrypted, high security Pentagon computer system, with the express purpose of gaining access to files relating to the Montauk Project. It is unknown at this time what aspects of the Project these particular files related to. Security of this system was thoroughly compromised; these fellows did in fact gain access to said files which were downloaded by the hackers. Apparently this "crime" was considered very high priority considerable energy was devoted to apprehending the perpetrators. RESPONSE QUICK, HARSH Federal investigators quickly traced the source of this unauthorized intrusion and theft of classified information, identified those responsible, and have arrested them. Interestingly, the two young men (exact ages unknown) are being dealt with very seriously and are facing the most severe charges which can possibly apply in such cases, with no indication whatsoever that there will be any leniency forthcoming. It would seem this severity is a result of the particular files which were the target of the intrusion. Apparently this material is considered extremely sensitive and is exceptionally highly classified. REQUEST FOR INFORMATION, LEADS We are actively seeking any (additional) information from any source which relates, applies or connects to this case in any way. Anyone wishing to impart such information can contact John Quinn/NewsHawk Inc, at J9Aq9@aol.com; or at 707.984.7178. -- LOUISE A. LOWRY (EDITOR "The Strange" Weekly Newsletter) Come and Link With Us! URL: http://www.jb-graphics.com/thestrange "Tis Strange-but true: For truth is always Strange: Stranger than Fiction!"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 5 19th Rocky Mountain UFO Conference From: sfrfc@frii.com [Franklin Carter] Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 15:42:17 -0600 (MDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 15:35:58 -0400 Subject: 19th Rocky Mountain UFO Conference The Institute for UFO Research announces the 19th Rocky Mountain UFO Conference in Laramie, Wyoming from June 18-21. The confirmed speakers include Dr.Leo Sprinkle, Leah Haley, Dr. Roger Leir, Dr. Steven Greer, Tim Edwards, Travis Walton and Mike Rogers, G. Cope Schellhorn, Simeon Hein and Dr. Barbara Lamb. This conference also includes two closed sessions for people to give the stories of their experiences. This conference is for people who have had UFO related experiences. See all the details at our website http://www.frii.com/~iufor Franklin Carter
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 5 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 18 From: Masinaigan <Masinaigan@aol.com> [Joseph Trainor] Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 13:04:56 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 15:16:16 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 18 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 3, Number 18 May 3, 1998 Editor: Joseph Trainor BRITISH NEWSPAPERS SAY RAF, DUTCH AIR FORCE CHASED GIANT UFO The London newspapers Daily Telegraph and Daily Mail reported this week that jet interceptors of the Royal Air Force and the Netherlands Air Force had pursued a giant triangular UFO over the North Sea. According to the Daily Mail, the phased-array radar network at RAF Fylingdales in North Yorkshire picked up an "unusual craft (that was) tracked flying in a zigzag pattern at 17,000 miles per hour (27,200 kilometers per hour) over the North Sea." An RAF fighter squadron was sent to intercept the object. The Netherlands Air Force "also tracked the UFO but the two (Dutch) F-16 fighters scrambled to intercept the object were unable to keep up" with it. The UFO dodged the Dutch fighters, increasing its speed to 24,000 miles per hour (38,400 kilometers per hour), and shot away to the northeast, heading for the Atlantic Ocean. "RAF officials were said to be baffled by the object... 'It was definitely under control, judging by the various manoeuvres executed,' said a spokesman. 'It appeared to be triangular and was around the size of a battleship (about 900 feet long) (273 meters--J.T.).'" According to the Daily Telegraph, "Tapes to be shown to British and American experts are said to show objects that change shape and in mid-air and a battleship-sized aircraft traveling at 33 times the speed of sound." The presentation of the radar tapes will be made in June at the Space Symposium to be held at the Air Warfare Center at RAF Cranwell in Lincolnshire. The newspaper articles appeared on Monday, April 27, 1998. The RAF Press Office denied that a joint air operation against a giant UFO had taken place, adding, "Yes, there is a conference at the Air Warfare Center at RAF Cranwell in June, but this is to discuss military strategies in outer space--not UFOs." The Daily Telegraph said Wednesday, April 29, that it stands by its story and its "RAF source." According to Graham W. Birdsall, editor of the UK's UFO Magazine, the "RAF source" is Philip Burden, a former Ministry of Defence employee who served as editor of the in-house RAF publication RAF News ten years ago. (See the Daily Telegraph for April 27, 1998, "RAF Spots Speeding UFOs with New Radar," and the Daily Mail for April 27, 1998, "24,000 MPH UFO Buzzes Britain." Many thanks to Errol Bruce-Knapp, Graham W. Birdsall and Dave Clarke of BUFORA for making the newspaper articles available.) FRENCH UFOLOGISTS STUDY MISSING-TIME ENCOUNTER French ufologists are studying a UFO encounter four men had back in January in a rural area about 72 kilometers (45 miles) northwest of Paris. The incident took place near Grisy-les-Platres on January 10, 1998. The town is in the department Val d'Oise, near Genicourt and Pontoise. D. Bruno, 62, a retired aviation technician for Air France, went on a hunting trip that day with three companions. In two cars, the men drove north on Chaussee (local road) D27. As they approached Grisy-les-Platres, Bruno reported, "I noticed before me a series of lights as bright as the moon. This was very intriguing as the disposition of the lights in the sky was very strange. As we approached the object, we wondered what it could be. It resembled nothing within the scope of our knowledge." "The lights consisted of linear luminous portholes from (measuring) 5 by 3 meters spaced on an enormous black mass that was an estimated 45 meters (139 feet) wide, according to my professional experience. The object was at the treetops at a height of 20 meters (67 feet) and hovering over the road. It must have weighed thousands of tons." "I opened my (side) window in order to hear the sound. I leaned forward the looked underneath the object. The object was truly enormous and blocked my view of the sky. There was a central part of the vast construction that was a lighter shade of gray than the rest, and I thought that it might be a sort of tire--it was clearly octagonal. I could plainly see more of the enormous lights beneath it. From that moment on, however, I remember no more of what happened." The next thing Bruno knew, he was driving on D27 four kilometers (two miles) past Grisy-les-Platres. "I stopped the car and was startled to find that I was three kilometers past our rendezvous point. My colleagues were also in the same bizarre state." On January 23, 1998, thirteen days after the UFO encounter, Bruno added, "I consulted a doctor when traces of burns suddenly appeared on the left side of my face and following an eye infection." (Merci beaucoup a Franck Marie et Banque OVNI pour cette histoire.) UFOs SEEN REPEATEDLY IN GRAFTON, NEW SOUTH WALES Multiple UFOs have been seen repeatedly over and near Grafton, New South Wales, Australia, since the beginning of April. On Monday, April 6, 1998, ufologist Barry Taylor reported that "while skywatching I observed a group of eight 'star' like objects moving in formation...All eight objects would drop back, move across and then forward within the formation, weaving around each other." The UFO formation was seen just west of Grafton at 8 p.m., and the objects were heading south at an estimated altitude of 4,000 to 5,000 feet. On Saturday, April 18, 1998, at 7:10 p.m., Taylor spotted another formation, "same size group...at about 1,000 feet or less" heading south. The object traveled at one kilometer per second, or 3,600 kilometers per hour (2,160 miles per hour). On Sunday, April 19, 1998, at 6:35 p.m., Taylor reported, "I decided to begin skywatching early and I am glad that I did. Directly overhead at an altitude of about 4,000 feet, a large V formation of about 30 objects was moving south. Each object was holding its position... but 'buffeting' a little in perpendicular. Their colour was a moderately bright yellowish-white. The formation's size was about 15 centimeters (8 inches) at arm's length. I took five photos during the 10-second sighting." On Monday, April 20, 1998, at 6:50 p.m., Taylor was ready for another photo shoot. Pictures of the big formation taken with 400 ASA Fuji film hadn't come out, so he switched to 800 ASA for his Canon 55mm camera with its f2 lens. That night, he spied "a group of seven or eight UFOs. They came from the north, turned west just before the Grafton city limits and headed north again. They were moving very fast, and the formation shifted from horizontal to vertical...I took about a dozen photos of the first pass, and the shutter speed was 1/15 second to 1/8 second." On Tuesday, April 21, 1998, Taylor spied a group of UFOs at 9:20 p.m. "at approximately 6,000 to 8,000 feet, heading south in V formation. Speed was about 5,000 kilometers per hour (3,000 miles per hour) and a second group passed by 20 seconds later." Plotting their course on a map, Taylor calculated that an unchanged course would take the UFOs to Sydney or Katoomba, N.S.W. Grafton is located 400 kilometers (250 miles) north of Sydney. (See the newsletter Australian UFO Reports and Encounters #2 for May, 1998. Many thanks to editor Robert Frola for letting UFO ROUNDUP quote from his newsletter.) (Editor's Note: Katoomba has been the Number One site for UFO encounters in Australia for the past fifty years.) COW FOUND MUTILATED IN CENTRAL LOUISIANA The night of Sunday, April 5, 1998, a 1,100-lb. cow was stabbed to death and mutilated in a pasture near Boyce, Louisiana (population 1,361). According to the Baton Rouge Advocate, the perpetrator "removed its genitals and udder, but there were only a few drops of blood where a pool might have been expected." "Whoever killed the cow Sunday may have drained the blood from knife wound in its neck, or may have mutilated it after it died, investigators said..." "'I would tend to believe that it could be some kind of religious cult. I can't say that for sure. But I would think it has something to do with it,' Rapides Parish sheriff's detective Buddy Willis said Tuesday," April 7, 1998. "Gary Dunn, an investigator for the Louisiana Livestock Brand Commission, said he thinks the cow was tranquilized and killed, then the blood was drained and taken away." "'That's strictly a presumption,' he said." "The cow was three to four years old and reportedly healthy." "The pasture gate was locked, so whoever killed the cow had to jump the gate, Dunn said." "Another odd feature: There were no signs of a struggle, and tiny yellow flowers around the body stood straight, indicating that the cow had not been dragged anywhere." Boyce is on Interstate Highway 49 approximately 227 miles (361 kilometers) north of New Orleans. (See the Baton Rouge Advocate for April 9, 1998. Many thanks to Lou Farrish of UFO NEWSCLIPPING SERVICE for this story.) GIANT OCTAGONAL UFO SEEN IN ROSAMOND, CALIFORNIA On Wednesday, April 22, 1998, at 9:15 p.m., a gigantic octagonal-shaped UFO was seen hovering over Albertson's Grocery Store in Rosamond, California (population 7,430). "The description was of a large object, not quite octagonal in shape, between 100 yards to 200 yards (90 to 180 meters) with bright orange and yellow lights around" its outer edge. As the object hovered, "it made no sound and its lights caused motorists to park and gawk, and some to call the newspaper." According to copy chief Jane Treece of the Antelope Valley Press, calls began coming in at about 9 p.m. "After the first couple of calls, we said, 'Yeah, OK, sure,' Treece said, 'But between 9:15 and 11 (p.m.) we received a dozen calls from people who were setting on their way to Albertson's to do some shopping or who were eating at the Taco Bell.'" On Friday, the Kerns County Sheriff's Department office in Rosamond "said they had no reports of such a sighting." U.S. Air Force spokesperson "Lorraine Sanders said she, too, had no information on the event." "Edwards Air Force Base public information officer Gary Hatch said base operators reported no flights scheduled in that area for that time of night." (See the Antelope Valley Press for April 23, 1998, "Residents Report Flying Craft." Many thanks to Bill Hamilton for the newspaper article.) MORE UFOs REPORTED IN GEORGIA On Saturday, April 25, 1998, at 11:50 p.m., Kevin M. and his brother were at home in Comer, Georgia (population 939) when they "observed a reddish light zigzagging at his speed, moving across the sky at approximately 40 degrees above the southern horizon. Viewed by the naked eye and with 7X35 binoculars, the stars appeared as faint images compared to the object." Kevin, an astronomy major in college, said, "I know the difference between a planet, heavenly body, and a flying object," adding that the "light remained horizontal relationship to the Earth's surface the entire time and disappeared at 12:30 a.m. in the southern sky at around 20 to 30 degrees above the horizon." Comer is located at the junction of Highways 22 and 72, about 85 miles (136 kilometers) east of Atlanta. (Many thanks to Tim Hagemeister of NACOMM for this report.) On April 1, 1998, at 10 p.m., a UFO "described as looking like a huge flying dinner plate was reported 10 miles (16 kilometers) north of LaGrange, Georgia (population 23,547)." About an hour later, the female witness saw "mysterious bright lights" to the north-northeast. "The large non-blinking light sat low on the horizon for several minutes Grabbing a pair of binoculars, the woman watched the light" which she described as "about the size of Venus" for "over a minute," after which "it 'zipped' away to the east." Two days earlier, on March 31, 1998, at 8:30 p.m., a saucer-shaped UFO was "seen hovering over a clover field near a stock pond" near Stovall, Ga., 10 miles (16 kilometers) southeast of LaGrange. "'It was a round thing that had a light going round and round,' the witness reported, having observed it from his car. 'Even though it took less than a minute to turn the car around, the UFO was gone.'" Georgia ufologist John Thompson said, "This is the exact same spot where a daylight Valley-type (i.e. a thimble-shaped object similar to the one photographed in Valley, Alabama--J.T.) UFO was seen by a man and his son in April of 1996." LaGrange is located 64 miles (102 kilometers) southwest of Atlanta. (See Filer's Files #17 for 1998. Many thanks to George A. Filer of MUFON and John Thompson for these reports.) DUNCAN VIDEOTAPES UFO OVER HIGH ROCK LAKE On Wednesday, April 29, 1998, at 12:15 a.m., Stefan Duncan, editor of American UFO Newsletter, stopped his truck near the intersection of Mack Road and Bringle Ferry Road in Salisbury, North Carolina (population 23,087) when he spied a mysterious light in the sky. "I was on my way to High Rock Lake," the site of many UFO sightings since December 1997, Duncan reported, "This craft was sitting stationary when I first viewed it...I jumped out of my truck and I grabbed my videocamera...The craft was moving at 30 miles per hour (48 kilometers per four)--that's a wild estimate. It moved to the right of me and began to approach." By the time it reached Duncan's location, the UFO resembled an object with this configuration: o 0 "Both lights were white," he added, "The first light was much brighter. At the front tip of the craft was a red, diffused blinking light." At first Duncan thought it was a slow-flying airplane or a helicopter. "But then, to my amazement, the craft began to roll over and revealed it was a triangular shape. At each corner of the craft was a single white light that appeared to be right at the tip. The triangular-shaped craft turned completely over and began flying upside down. It continued in this position until it faded from my sight..The rollover came in very clear on the videotape." High Rock Lake is about 10 miles east of Salisbury, a small city on Highway 29 about 115 miles (184 kilometers) west of Raleigh. (See American UFO Newsletter #8 for 1998. Many thanks to Stefan Duncan for this report.) TRIANGULAR UFO SEEN EAST OF MERIDEN, CONNECTICUT Early in April, a 39-year-old man was driving east on Route 147 from Meriden to Middletown, Conn. (population 42,762) at 9 p.m. when he spotted an unusual object hovering over the Mount Higby Reservoir. "He saw an object hovering over the water and its reflection was observed in the water. There were three lights in triangular formation, which were very bright." According to Mark Cashman and Bruce Tilden, who are investigating the case for Connecticut MUFON, the UFO "was about 50 feet above the reservoir. Object was approximately 100 feet (30 meters) across. It is estimated that the pine trees around the reservoir are between 30 and 40 feet high. The witness said the lights on the object were slightly bluish-white, closer to flourescent light than halogen." The witness observed the UFO from the car's driver-side window. The object turned off its lights as his car drove past. The Mount Higby reservoir is approximately four miles west of Middletown, a small city about 17 miles (27 kilometers) south of Hartford, the state capital. (See American UFO Newsletter #8 for 1998. Many thanks to Stefan Duncan for this report.) (Editor's Note: A "mysterious explosion" rocked Middletown on April 1, 1907, shaking buildings and shattering glass, long before the era of supersonic flight. See Middletown's Penny Press for April 2, 1907, page one.) MARS GLOBAL SURVEYOR HAMPERED BY CLOUD COVER The Mars Global Surveyor snapped its third picture of the enigmatic Cydonia region on April 24, 1998. The new photo shows "The City" and was shot from an altitude of 244 miles (392 kilometers). However, cloud cover in the Martian skies foiled Surveyor's attempts to find and photograph the marooned Pathfinder lander and the Viking 1 and Viking 2 landers. According to the NASA press release, "Raw data indicated that the (Pathfinder) lander was not visible due to a thick haze" although land features close to the site, such as Twin Peaks, were visible. "Viking 1 lander in Chryse Planitia was not identified in images of the site, probably due to imprecise coordinates used to locate the landing site." "Winter weather in the northern hemisphere and heavy cloud cover prevented a view of the Viking 2 lander in Utopia Planitia." "Further imaging of the Cydonia region and the Pathfinder/Viking landing sites will not be feasible" for a while, as Mars will soon be passing behind the sun. Solar flares will probably hinder the radio communications between Earth and the Mars Global Surveyor. (Many thanks to Errol Bruce-Knapp for the NASA news release.) SHUTTLE BABY RATS DIE OF UNKNOWN CAUSES The space shuttle Columbia's Neurolab mission got a new lease on life last weekend as Commander Richard Searloss patched up a malfunctioning air cleansing system. "A leaky valve caused the shuttle's carbon dioxide removal unit to shut down late Friday, threatening to cut short the two-week research mission explaining how the nervous system develops and functions in space." "But shuttle Commander Richard Searloss patched up the unit Saturday afternoon." "Using a screwdriver and tape, he removed one end of a small hose, blocked it with tape to bypass the leaky valve, and reinstalled it." "He told flight controllers that the system was 'cool and copacetic,' and compared his handiwork to auto repair." (Editor's Comment: Were I aboard that shuttle, I'd be awfully glad that Mr. and Mrs. Searloss let Richard take auto shop in high school.) On Tuesday, April 28, 1998, NASA reported that "about half of the baby rats aboard the space shuttle Columbia have died unexpectedly...The rats, which were 9 days old, when Columbia blasted off April 17, were test subjects for experiments to learn about how the absence of gravity affects the development of the human brain and nervous system." "NASA officials said more than 40 of the baby rats have died, apparently because their mothers were unable or unwilling to nurse them. Scientists had expected 11 to 14 deaths through natural causes during the mission." On Wednesday, April 29, 1998, NASA's chief veterinarian, Dr. Joseph Bielitzki, "said 50 of the 96 baby rats have died aboard Columbia since the launch April 17," adding that "Columbia's crew is doing everything possible to prevent more deaths." The crew attempted to keep the baby rats alive by feeding them a blend of milk extract and Gatorade. "Mary Beth Sweetland, research director with People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA), accused NASA of being unable 'to keep animals alive on the ground or in space.'" (See USA Today for April 27, 1998, "Astronaut's handiwork preserves mission;" and April 28, 1998, "Rats Die in Space;" and April 29, 1998, "NASA Criticized.") CASSINI BYPASSES VENUS ON FIRST LAP OF ITS VOYAGE On Sunday, April 26, 1998, the Cassini spacecraft zoomed past the planet Venus, adding another 16,300 miles per hour (21,080 kilometers per hour) to its speed and shortening its flight time to Saturn. Cassini was launched in October 1997 for a seven-year, 2.2 billion-mile journey. "The plutonium- powered spacecraft will spend four years exploring Saturn, its rings and frozen moons. It's carrying the European Space Agency's Huygens probe, which will land on Titan, the largest of those moons." Cassini passed within 176 miles (281 kilometers) of Venus and used the planet's gravity to achieve a higher flight speed. "'All indications are that the spacecraft did exactly what we expected,' said Ronald Draper, Deputy Program Manager at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory" in Pasadena, California. "A second Venus 'gravity assist' is set for June 24, 1999, followed by a close pass of the Earth in August 1999 and another past Jupiter in 2000. Each will add speed to allow Cassini's arrival at Saturn on July 1, 2004." (See the New York Daily News for April 27, 1998.) (Editor's Comment: Cassini is now traveling at a flight speed of 87,000 miles per hour (139,000 kilometers per hour). In the past seven days, the spacecraft has gone 2,088,000 miles (3,340,800 kilometers) beyond Venus. Now that it's well away from Venus's shine, it might be visible by telescope. Venus can best be seen at 4 a.m. in the eastern sky, about 10 degrees above the horizon. Just above it and to the right is Jupiter. Amateur astronomers, let us know if you spot it.) from the UFO Files... 1937: MYSTERIOUS LIGHTS SEEN ON MARS "On May 30, 1937, during a part of the interval between 4h 35m and 6h 0m G.C.T., while Mars was being observed through a 12-inch aluminized reflector, 250 magnification, with unusually good seeing, what appeared to be a series of bright flashes was seen, extending across the south polar cap about one degree north of the southern rim of the disk." "They were irregularly intermittent and were estimated to be about one magnitude brighter than the rest of the (polar) cap. They were entirely unexpected, but once they had been seen became the chief concern of the observation period." "Measured from the drawings and the photographs the thickness of the south polar cap on the central meridian was about one degree, 87. The flashes extended almost midway between the northern edge of the cap and the southern rim of the disk. A line of tiny white spots seemed to extend across the cap, some of the spots coalescing to swell into a brilliant white spot which quickly became yellow, then red-yellow, the phenomenon passing from left to right across the polar cap." (See Popular Astronomy volume 40, page 430 for 1937, "Apparent Flashes Seen on Mars" by Latimer J. Wilson. Reprinted in THE MOON AND THE PLANETS: A CATALOGUE OF ASTRONOMICAL ODDITIES, compiled by William R. Corliss, The Sourcebook Project, Glen Arm, Md., 1985, page 221.) FUN UFO WEBSITES: Dr. Timothy Parker of JPL offers a website with a new view of the Pathfinder site on Mars. It's in 3-D! Check out Big Crater and Twin Peaks with your 3-D glasses. Even an old red-and-green pair from the 1950s will do. It's at http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/ parker/analglyph.html Also you can try http://www.msss.com/mars/ global_surveyor/camera/images/4_25_98_pathfinder_ release/index.html Angel Gutierrez has his UFO site open at http://www.ciberia.met/~nonsia/indexxx.htm For more on the current flap in New South Wales, Australia, check out http://www.ror.co.au/users/ stingray/latesite.htm Was the Cydonia region on Mars hit by a NATO nuclear bomb in 1993? Kent Steadman explores this theory at http://eagle-net.org/phikent/orbit/ april/mystery.html Don't miss our parent site, UFO INFO, which now has direct links to Australian UFO Reports and Experiences. Access the site at this URL: http://ufoinfo.com Back issues of UFO ROUNDUP can be read and downloaded at http://ufoinfo.com/roundup On this date, May 3, 1765, Pennsylvania physician Dr. John Morgan opened the first medical school in the USA at the College of Philadelphia. That's it for this week. We'll be back next weekend with more saucer news from "the paper that goes home-- UFO ROUNDUP." See you then. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1998 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO ROUNDUP on their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 5 Who is....? From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl> Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 20:22:01 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 15:42:56 -0400 Subject: Who is....? Hi there, Anybody here know anyone that goes by the name of John Wright? I reckon that's not his real name...this man has been mailing me with some strange stories about R.V. ESP abductions, etc. Now I might be a UFO researcher but no looney, and I wonder if there are any collegues out there with the same experiences. I don't know what to do, see, I don't wanna be rude, but I don't want a mailbox jammed with the "horrorfying truth of the Conspiracy against hte human race..." (Before I get ANY comments on the latter: I'm just joking...!) Thanks, Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 5 UFO Desk Update From: Paul Williams <paulw@escape.com> Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 14:03:40 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 16:05:49 -0400 Subject: UFO Desk Update Here's an updated list of UFO Desk show's. Please enjoy, and of course feel free to respond. U F O D E S K The Only Radio Show In New York That Takes You To The Edge! Alternate Monday Mornings At 1 Am Join Your Host Paul Williams And Scott Carr Inside Of Sidney Smiths Carrier Wave Only On Wbai Ny 99.5 FM Listener Sponsored Radio Upcoming Programs May 11th and 25th 1998 A conversation with James Moseley. Mr Moseley has been involved in the search for UFO truths for over fifty years. He produces 'Saucer Smear', a news letter for those deeply interested in ufology. June 8th, 1998 It was Scott Carr's idea and I'm glad he thought of it. This week we talk with Ms. Betty Hill. She and late husband Barneys' story was broadcast to the world as 'The Interrupted Journey'. Ms. Hill graces UFO desk with her own insights into ufology. A very special lady, and a program not to be missed. June 22nd, 1998 At this juncture ufo desk begins a series of programs exploring origins of humanity from a biblical and alternative biblical point of view. First we talk with Tim Hagmiester of New Age Communication. Tim mixes his belief in the bible and UFOs. This promises to be a most interesting half hour. Zechariah Sitchin fans take notice. Paul Williams Executive Producer UFO Desk WBAI NY 99.5 FM http://www.escape.com/~paulw/ufodesk.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 5 Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 15:10:32 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 15:40:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles > From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> [Tim Matthews] > To: <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Urgent - Talking Sense About Flying Triangles > Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 02:13:43 +0100 > Dear Updates, > I read with interest the continuing confusion about flying > triangles, both large and small. The nonsense talked about this > subject is indicative of modern Ufology in that too many people > believe (and that is the operative word) that these aircraft are > 'alien spaceships'. Mr. Matthews claims that UFO researchers uncritically accept material on "flying triangles" as evidence of non-human technologies. In his attempt to rebut this, he trots out a number of supposedly existent vehicles, whose existence has never been reliably confirmed in the aviation press. I would ask, for instance, which of these vehicles are cited as operational by Jane's, for instance, and which were cited as operation in 1983 (Hudson), and in 1951 (Lubbock) Secondly, he ignores the cases which do not support the theory in question, such as those which occurred in moderate to high winds, those in which the witnesses testified to near immediate departure and high accelerations, those in which the object was seen at very close range, those in which the object performed typical UFO actions, and those where photographs taken or descriptions provided do not appear to be of anything resembling his hypothetical airships and hypersonic interceptors. Thirdly he ignores the fact that tests of such vehicles in the US require an experimental license, and that experimental aircraft must be certified by the FAA. Pre-certification flights would be required to be held over non-populated areas. Even if this were not the case, these aircraft would hardly engage in "secret" tests over the roads of the Hudson valley and Belgium. It is my experience that conventional airliners are often reported as FTs, and, certainly that this results in an increased noise level with regard to the triangular geometry. But there are numerous good cases with such geometries as well, and the proof lies on those who cite speculation, developmental projects, and the usual unnamed sources, to prove their case by demonstrating with specific documentation that such aircraft were in fact (not by inference) operating in the areas where they were sighted, and to identify their bases and operational patterns, and the waivers they received from civilian and military aviation authorities before they began their apparently purposeless missions. ------ Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman - Original digital art, writing, and UFO research - Author of SF novels available at... http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront/ ------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 5 Jean van Gemert's Website Updated From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 09:08:12 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 15:46:34 -0400 Subject: Jean van Gemert's Website Updated Hello all, I'd like to note that I've redesigned and added some good stuff to the site below, take a look! __________________________________________________________ Science, Logic, and the UFO Debate: http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/index.html __________________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 5 Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles From: Steve Neeley <stneeley@mail.bright.net> Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 21:33:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 15:45:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 16:44:23 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Steve Neeley <stneeley@mail.bright.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >>From: Xxyyxx <Xxyyxx@aol.com> [Dave Bauer] >>Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 21:10:14 EDT >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >>>From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> [Tim Matthews] >>>To: <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: Urgent - Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >>>Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 02:13:43 +0100 >Dear UpDates, >Everything else is pure SPECULATION. Including who built it, and >who is driving it. >I urge everyone to step back and take note of the reality here. >No definative proof of either theory has been accepted by the >public at large. What we have are reports of sights both unusual >and unknown. Urge your congressional representatives to push for >legitimate official investgation into the entire UFO question. Dear UpDates, If the Flying triangle is a SECRET gov`t project then watch out because it will put every truck, train and airliner OUT OF BUSINESS. It appeared in the distance as an orange ball of glowing, jittering light. The light moved slowly up and down. It became brighter and grew larger, in an instant it was directly overhead. what looked like two fifty gallon drums of red light were hanging down from a dark grey body, a third light of pure white completed the triangle. It was surrounded by a dense fog that swirled and all but made it invisible save for the lights. It was stationary overhead for a moment of time I don`t know how long. And then it was just gone. This was a sighting in 1995 witnessed by my wife and myself. Steve from Ohio Steven J. Neeley, Director Ohio Skywatch International http://www.geocities.com/soho/5782 stneeley@bright.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 5 Re: SLV Update: Another Mute From: "Christopher O'Brien" <tmv@pop.amigo.net> Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 09:18:08 -7 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 17:08:57 -0400 Subject: Re: SLV Update: Another Mute Last night KOB-TV, Alburqurque NBC affiliate ran a short piece concerning Colfax County DA, John Paternost's, investigation of a mutilated cow on the Mutz Ranch (no joke, that's his name.) The Mutz Ranch is in the Moreno Valley, just east of Questa, NM., near Eagles Nest where many mute reports have been filed since 1994 For more info on these and many other cases, refer to the Mysterious Valley Web-site below. Also, five daylight photos were taken of an object south of Las Vegas NM, on April 3, 1998. I will be posting these photos in my Photo Archive "Visual Evidence" section ASAP After eight weeks of blissful relief, the livestock surgeons appear to have returned to the San Luis Valley, located in Southcentral Colorado. Junne and Virgil Walkley were returning home from a friend's house 15 miles east of Alamosa, CO, when they happened upon a "mutilated bull" that appeared to be "dropped on a fence line." Location: 12 miles east of Alamosa CO. The animal, which turned out to be a cow, had apparently been dead for three or four days. It was lying on its back directly ON an old fence line that extended north-to-south, on the western edge of the San Luis Valley Ranch Estates, 12 miles east of Alamosa, CO., where the Walkley's property is located. The Walkleys are subscribers to the Mysterious Valley Report, and avid skywatchers. The mandible flesh and hide had been removed cleanly from around the lower teeth, up and around the jaw, and back under the lower jaw around to the lower teeth. The rear end and lower internal organs had been reamed by coyotes and scavenging birds. At this time, the owner of the animal has not been established and no report has been made to Alamosa or Costilla County authorities. This investigator conducted a thorough investigation of the crime-scene and was unable to locate any further clues as to the identity of the perpertrators. Because of the untimely nature of the report, no forensic samples were obtained. This latest case extends the defined line of "mute" cases east from the Alamosa River where a number of cases have been reported and investigated since 1994. This makes seven cases in a perfect crescent-line along the Alamosa River. *See home.amigo.net/tmv "Special Investigations" for more Alamosa River Mutilation Report Information from the San Luis Valley Christopher O'Brien CAUS/Skywatch tmv@amigo.net http://home.amigo.net/tmv
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 5 New Russian UFO Crash is Not 'New' From: "Greg Jarikov" <greg@pop3.rcom.ru> Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 23:21:15 +0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 17:04:36 -0400 Subject: New Russian UFO Crash is Not 'New' Dear List, Sorry for discrepancies in the previous messages about Tien-Shan UFO crash. The crash is NOT new, the MESSAGE about it is new. The crash had taken place at the end of August - beginning of September, 1991. The first group of military researchers arrived there in August, 1992. Those people received strong burns, could not approach the object closer than 500 meters. During photographing - complete "overlight" (sorry, I don't know this word on English) of films; first videocamera has "burned down", in second - video was allways tearing (VIDEOfilm, in tape!). Near object, are fragments of the first party of the researchers' helicopter (military Mi-8, camouflage colours). The helicopter was flown up too close and was destroyed. Emil Bachurin doesn't exclude the fact, that the object could be hooked for a rock, because in it nose & tail parts he saw a cracks and insignificant deformations. The path from sliding of object (approximately 800-1000 meters) is well visible, it should be well visible from space too. The object went precisely from west on east, it flew on a very flat trajectory. There are radar marks made by local RLS. On our reasons, it would be especially effective to make spectrozonal photos from space in a green component of a spectrum. If you can ?.. Now object is there, on former without any access to it. And, it is NOT a mistake: the sizes of object REALLY are about six hundred twenty meters on one hundred twenty meters (620x120). Regards, Greg Jarikov, Regional Coordinator of P. Astrabolarum, St.-Petersburg, Russia member of RUFORS
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 5 Re: New Russian UFO Crash is Not 'New' From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 16:20:37 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 20:42:48 -0400 Subject: Re: New Russian UFO Crash is Not 'New' > From: "Greg Jarikov" <greg@pop3.rcom.ru> > To: <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: New Russian UFO crash > Dear List, > Sorry for discrepancies in the previous messages about Tien-Shan > UFO crash. > The crash is NOT new, the MESSAGE about it is new. > The crash had taken place at the end of August - beginning of > September, 1991. <snip> Dear Mr. Jarikov: 1) This object sounds vaguely like a huge meteorite .. but I cannot understand how it did not devastate a wide area! 2) I cannot find a Tien-Shan in Russia/CIS. I found Tien-Shan in China .. at 120:00 East by 43:45 North. There are 21 other Tien-Shans with variant names like Tien-ma-Shan etc. all in China. 3) I have no corresponding record of such an event in my Database, for either country.. Best Wishes - Larry Hatch.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 5 Re: British Newspaper Prints 'Best Ever' Footage! From: "Jon" <jon@wibble.powernet.co.uk> [Jonathan Dyton] Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 22:46:06 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 20:18:58 -0400 Subject: Re: British Newspaper Prints 'Best Ever' Footage! >Once again nobody ever answers my point that on many occasions >these flying triangles have been seen to be escorted by RAF >Tornados. Why is this view stifled by the UFO research community >and WHY, when I have evidence of secret testing in the Irish Sea >are my views never heard? Yep, and those triangles were not much bigger than the Tornados or whatever that was acompanying them. So why arn't ALL triangle flights accompanied then? Is it cause Tornados can't hover over or near Sizewell? Mind you, nobody ever answers my point about why 3 different types of triangle are reported (at least) yet ufologists ignore plain commonsence and try to lump 'em all in the group, I mean what's the point of building a bloody great triangle, getting a gagging order and then flying straight over the m1 at 8.31 on a Sunday night, hummm? I read a great piece by the UK UFO Network once. Had an interview with one of the LA airport guys, who occasionaly had to look after area 51. You know what he said? Nothing flys without a call sign, and without a load of military controllers to watch over it (in the airport), the reason being they cannot afford the risk of someone taking a plane up drunk from LA/Vega and venturing over there. They need to contact the pilot and tell them to change course. Thats the way the military does things like that. Triple checked, how the bloody hell would you explain one of those things hitting an airliner or getting shot down over a UK army base, as in 93? The real mystery is why are the BBC etc, not interested in any of the film of the triangle (I hear they've had film since 96) it's been on 'Sightings', you remember, that film of that 3 lighted thing hovering over Mansfield. Very stealthy. Right I'm all ranted out. Can I have that interview Tim? ;~) Hows about the 24th of May? Cheers now, jon
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 5 Re: Russian UFO Crash From: "Nikolay V. Subbotin" <Nikolay.Subbotin@psu.ru> Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 03:27:32 +0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 19:55:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Russian UFO Crash >From: drumpunk@frontiernet.net [Cody Smith] >Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 11:56:46 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: New Russian UFO Crash >>From: "Greg Jarikov" <greg@pop3.rcom.ru> >>To: <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: New Russian UFO Crash >>Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 00:06:43 +0400 >>Dear List, >>Let me try to describe hand-written notes on the scan received >>from Nikolay Subbotin, Director of RUFORS (Sat, 2 May 1998 >>22:22:51): >>"The Zeppelin" in Tien-Shan. >>Natural boundary "Sh.-Mazar". East gorge. >>It is impossible to make photos. Victims exist. >>Marks are green >>Size is 620x120m <snip> >Is there a URL on the web that has some info about this >incident? The attempts are now done (made) to receive photos of the crash site of the space ship. The probability of reception of these snapshots is very high. I did not create site about this accident. Any additional information can be received from me. ___________________________________ MAILLIST RUFORS (C) 1997-98 RUSSIAN UFO RESEARCH STATION Nikolay Subbotin (norsa@psu.ru), Director RUFORS (Russian UFO Research Station) [http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/6303] Editor Russian UFO Magazine "Dialog: Earth - Space" [http://www.cross.ru/dialog] PO BOX 6303, Perm, Russia 614010 Tel/fax 7-3422-450184
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 5 Re: New Russian UFO Crash is Not 'New' From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:08:37 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 20:24:33 -0400 Subject: Re: New Russian UFO Crash is Not 'New' >From: "Greg Jarikov" <greg@pop3.rcom.ru> >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: New Russian UFO crash >Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 23:21:15 +0400 >Dear List, >Sorry for discrepancies in the previous messages about Tien-Shan >UFO crash. >The crash is NOT new, the MESSAGE about it is new. >The crash had taken place at the end of August - beginning of >September, 1991. >The first group of military researchers arrived there in August, >1992. >Those people received strong burns, could not approach the >object closer than 500 meters. During photographing - complete >"overlight" (sorry, I don't know this word on English) of films; >first videocamera has "burned down", in second - video was >allways tearing (VIDEOfilm, in tape!). >Near object, are fragments of the first party of the researchers' >helicopter (military Mi-8, camouflage colours). The helicopter >was flown up too close and was destroyed. >Emil Bachurin doesn't exclude the fact, that the object could be >hooked for a rock, because in it nose & tail parts he saw a >cracks and insignificant deformations. >The path from sliding of object (approximately 800-1000 meters) >is well visible, it should be well visible from space too. The >object went precisely from west on east, it flew on a very flat >trajectory. There are radar marks made by local RLS. >On our reasons, it would be especially effective to make >spectrozonal photos from space in a green component of a >spectrum. If you can ?.. >Now object is there, on former without any access to it. >And, it is NOT a mistake: the sizes of object REALLY are about >six hundred twenty meters on one hundred twenty meters (620x120). >Regards, >Greg Jarikov, >Regional Coordinator of >P. Astrabolarum, St.-Petersburg, Russia >member of RUFORS What are we talking about here, a Russian UFO crash or a Chinese UFO crash?????? Sounds Chinese to me. Last week in Italy I ran into the woman who is translating Erich von Daniken's newest book into English. The title of the book is "The Chinese Roswell", and it sounds to me like this may be the incident he has written about. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 5 Re: British Newspaper Prints 'Best Ever' Footage! From: Dave <dave422x@geocities.com> [Dave Watkinson] Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 22:33:56 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 20:04:21 -0400 Subject: Re: British Newspaper Prints 'Best Ever' Footage! >From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: British Newspaper prints 'best ever' footage! >Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 02:16:40 +0100 >News of the World 'Exclusive'. >Once again nobody ever answers my point that on many occasions >these flying triangles have been seen to be escorted by RAF >Tornados. Why is this view stifled by the UFO research community >and WHY, when I have evidence of secret testing in the Irish Sea >are my views never heard? > <SNIP> >Tim Matthews, >Lancashire UFO Society/British UFO Studies Centre Remember what i said about the Manchester Triangles? If a company like BAE can make "triangles" then I would assume that they'd want escorts for initial flights ??? dave
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 5 Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 18 From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:54:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 20:22:48 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 18 > From: Masinaigan <Masinaigan@aol.com> [Joseph Trainor] > Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 13:04:56 EDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 18 > TRIANGULAR UFO SEEN EAST > OF MERIDEN, CONNECTICUT Some clarification and correction > Early in April, a 39-year-old man was driving east The witness is 19. The event occurred on April 19th. > on Route 147 from Meriden to Middletown, Conn. The route is 66. > (population 42,762) at 9 p.m. when he spotted an > unusual object hovering over the Mount Higby > Reservoir. > "He saw an object hovering over the water and > its reflection was observed in the water. There were > three lights in triangular formation, which were very > bright." In a recent on-site visit the witness compared them in brightness to halogen high-beams at a distance of about 30 ft. The lights were not reflected by the trees, a thick stand of pine. This may allow limits on brightness to be determined. The lights did reflect on the water. The lights were observed through trees on two occasions. > According to Mark Cashman and Bruce Tilden, > who are investigating the case for Connecticut MUFON, > the UFO "was about 50 feet above the reservoir. Object > was approximately 100 feet (30 meters) across. It is > estimated that the pine trees around the reservoir are > between 30 and 40 feet high. The witness said the > lights on the object were slightly bluish-white, closer > to flourescent light than halogen." These estimates are not the usual UFO fluff but are based on preliminary triangulation with help from the witness. Unfortunately, the original estimates were performed on a night of poor weather. A visit several days later produced better azimuth and elevation estimates. However, there is some error in these. I am currently working on an interpretation, that indicates the region of greatest probablility, but the order of magnitude of these measurements does not seem to be threatened. There are several areas of difficulty in making and interpreting these measurements, the worst of which is the fact that they were made 1.5 weeks after the observation, and the second worse being the still experimental method of deriving these measurements from the witness memory and recording them. The object appeared to be approx 12 degrees in angular size. > The witness observed the UFO from the car's > driver-side window. The object turned off its lights > as his car drove past. After the car was past the object, according to the triangulation. Further notes: A 2 hour site visit with reenactment of the sighting by the witness was performed. Azimuth and elevation were estimated at several points. Coordinates of those points have been plotted on a digital map and sight lines have been plotted. Currently the distance seems to be between 0.1 (500 ft) and 0.25 mi (1000 ft). There are two major sight line intersections, which will be analyzed. Some estimate of the error in azimuth was obtained. Air traffic was observed on this second site visit. Very few aircraft crossed the section of sky in the direction of the sight lines. Only one could even conceivably have been interpreted as typical straight-on-landing-light bright. Checks are underway to determine if there were any formation flights (which would be required to account for the large angular size of the formation). The air traffic was observed for nearly 2 hours, and for a half hour of undistracted observing. There is some local lighting, which the witness clearly distinguished from the object lighting. The observation lasted about 15-30 secs. So far, no other witnesses have been found, but only limited canvassing has been done. A third site visit was performed and site photos were taken from all of the triangulation points. In addition, a GPS track log of the road was taken, and will be used for greater accuracy in locating the triangulation points. The witness has been very cooperative but wishes to remain anonymous. We are currently seeking permission to enter the reservoir property, due to the low altitude. Most trace evidence would have been destroyed by recent rains, but we consider it part of a complete investigation to come as close to the calculated location of the object as possible. Upon completion of the investigation, a full report (with maps etc.) will be made available at the MUFON CT website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/9047/ ------ Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman - Original digital art, writing, and UFO research - Author of SF novels available at... http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront/ ------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 6 Night-light Sighting From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 01:37:17 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 06:45:44 -0400 Subject: Night-light Sighting Low strangeness sighting, just in, near San Francisco.. Close to midnight on the night of Tues-Weds May 05- 1998 initial sketchy reports came in over radio KSFO San Francisco. Three bright green-glowing lights were seen offshore of Mussel Rock, north of Half Moon Bay, CA which is South of San Francisco in San Mateo County, CA. I now guestimate rough coordinates of 122:38W - 37:35 N. Initial reports were phoned in from 2 or 3 residents living on Skyline Boulevard, on the mountain ridge which is the backbone of the S.F. peninsula, northwest of Redwood City where I live. The US Coast Guard was advised. They doubt emergency flares, as these are not green in color. Separate observers on a tugboat at sea also saw the lights for thirty minutes. It is not clear if the lights hovered for that length of time, or were seen for 30 minutes after they descended to sea. The tugboat operator compared them to green "stoplights". He also said they were arranged in a straight vertical row. Art Bell picked up on this on his radio show, which is broadcast over the same radio station KSFO locally. So far I have picked up no mention over county police radio. - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 6 Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 07:21:45 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 06:13:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 22:54:36 +0100 Tim Matthews said: >Dear X, >Never said that aliens are 'irrelevant'. 60 years ago scientists in Germany >were working upon a variety of triangular aircraft including the boomerang >flying wings of the Hortens which were very advanced. The technology was >captured by the allies - much of it was taken to the US and developed >within the White Sands Proving Ground - focal point for part of the >immediate postwar UFO flap....... > Hi guys, Sorry for jumping into this debate a little late. A lot can be said about unknown craft being of human or non-human origin. For now I'll just remark that the origin cannot be determined by the shape of the craft. Triangles have interesting aerodynamic properties and some of them are certainly human, like British Aerospace HALO. But the debate should center around performance characteristics like speed, acceleration and (perceived) shape changing. Besides that around size and noise characteristics. Anyone who wants to explain the performance characteristics of reported triangles like those in the Belgian flap in terms of a British secret military program, should not only explain how human technology could have advanced that far, but also why this technology is not used in regular military programs and ... why the British are capable of developing such technology first. Please note that for the development of the most advanced aircraft you need the most advanced enabling technologies available, like supercomputers or clusters of parallel computers. The Americans have the best equipment in this field, not the British. Logic would dictate that the Americans are capable of developing the most advanced aircraft. Somehow the suggestion that many unknown triangles are of British design reminds me of the remark that the alien abduction phenomenon is part of American folklore, a remark made by another Brit on this list some time ago. >Can't say too much more otherwise the message will not be posted. >Belgium - read my book when it comes out! I think I will, Tim. Please say again when it comes out and whether it will be in shops around the world or just in the UK. Thanks. __________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Technology Pages http://home.worldonline.nl/~hvdp \______________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 6 UFOR: Re: A New Study..... From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 16:27:39 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 07:01:09 -0400 Subject: UFOR: Re: A New Study..... From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Dear Francisco, Having been around the UFO scene for some four decades now and being (owing to my encyclopedia project and other experiences) probably a bit more knowledgeable about ufology's history than most, I have a hard time, to put it politely, believing the story you posted. To me it simply looks like the latest in a long series of saucer tall tales that begin to surface in the late 1940s. It has all of the elements, even the silliness about "CIA assassination agents." From all available evidence "CIA assassination agents" don't exist, except in popular lore and paranoia. When the CIA did try to get into the assassination business as against Castro, indirect involvement in Trujillo's killing, and so on) and that got exposed by the Church Committee in the 1970s, the exposure nearly destroyed the agency. The revelations also showed that the agency's efforts were so incompetent as to be blackly comic -- which suggests that even then the CIA didn't know much about assassinating people. The agency has much to answer for, of course, but not this particular crime. Since the Church Committee findings, federal law makes government-sponsored assassination illegal (thus the controversy when during the Persian Gulf War it was suspected that U.S. weapons had targeted buildings in which Saddam Hussein was likely to be). In the course of my career, I've had any number of seemingly sincere people look me in the eye and tell me stories, not unlike the one you've described, that were bald-faced lies. No, I don't believe the story you tell, and neither -- based on what evidence I've seen so far -- should you. At the very least, if you do have what you take or hope to be real evidence potentially attainable, you ought not to have posted the story. You should have waited until you got it nailed down and, for one thing, you could have started naming sources. Remember, you're the one who has to prove it. Anyone who is not deeply skeptical based on what you've provided so far ought to engage in some serious soul-searching. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 6 UFOR: Brother Blue & The Colonel From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 16:22:06 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 10:58:23 -0400 Subject: UFOR: Brother Blue & The Colonel From: Blue Resonant Human <density4@cts.com> Brother Blue & The Colonel ========================== As far back as 1991, the eminent and marvelously insightful scholar Dr. Jacques Vallee noted in his poignant work _Revelations_ the following riddle: "I had given my private address to Lazar's associates. Within days I started receiving strange letters from a colonel in Las Vegas who invited me to spend one month -- all expenses paid -- with a group of ::: 12 People ::: who were preparing a major belief change in America. My background, he wrote, would be a 'definite advantage.' The incentive for joining the group was to establish contact with aliens. When I ignored the first letter -- it included the logo of the group, a neo-nazi design with an eagle clutching the SS symbol and a bunch of thunder- bolts -- the colonel sent me a second letter, even more specific. 'If you are sincere about contact with them, we can discuss it but only if there is no government involvement.' "To show it meant business, my correspondent included detailed information: longitude and latitude of a certain UFO sighting dated May 1943. I had the feeling that the problem was entering a new and dangerous phase..." We go now to meet with this elusive colonel, dear Brethren of the Internette; holding in our innermost being no guarantee that we should return alive or with our already failing sanity still intact. Should we fail to return, through either complex cerebral manipulations or foul play of the most heinous type, the secretary will, of course, disavow all knowledge of our actions. Should we, however, emerge unscathed from our journey through this Abyss, we shall share freely all our findings for, as our beloved Frater R:.A:.W:. hath so eloquently stated, "the only truly courageous act left is to tell the truth about everything." Let us, therefore, meditate upon these things. -Brother Blue, B:.B:. Brotherhood of Galactic Science
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 6 Alfred's Odd Ode #245 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 05:01:59 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 07:16:43 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #245 Apology to MW #245 (For May 6, 1998) I heard some dolphins thinking through a treasured friend of mine, the meaning swimming in and out of focus. You think you understand it then so quickly it is found that the *knowing* has a different kind of locus. Your top is inside out, and you find there's room for doubt, and the meaning flatly crumbles in your hand. You are lost and incomplete, disadvantaged, non replete, and the values that you're clutching you're not built to understand. What follows? An example of a dolphin's special thinking. A look inside the process of its mind. It's not what you're expecting, and you're wrong if you're detecting understanding in the pictures that you find. ~~~ Simplicity, eccentricity, glove feeling all the space. Pair and touch, and swim for lunch -- the pleasure of our grace. Free and clear, and one large fear I spread out in the pod, the girls provide solidity, it's them that talk to _*_. Murky water has a clarity I can see in ultra sound, and a body is more water makes my lover more profound. I see undulating muscle, and she's a beating of a heart. Her brains aglow with energy, her fins a work of art. Her bones are more arousing than the canyons out beyond, and her presence is a blessing -- I am much more than mere fond. The mindless ones are not about to suffer any folksters. The clueless ones that live upout are scary, crying youngsters. A mystery are these *human-beings* that stay in the above, made captive by their *fingers* they are lost, depraved, benumbed. The water's getting deeper, and we wonder what they'll do. I hope they don't move out with _us_, unless of course they'll grok the blue. And frabble in the narb way, or mittle in the greeb, and never, never slap their nill to growl a hapless dweeb. Wouldn't it be rapture if they hammeled out their cans and then leedled in the brimy with their vornals in their blams? Is it feebled artful noffle? Or do they plother other falien . . . ~~~ . . .And then right here you have to stop, the thoughts are just too alien! They're accusing and they challenge what we humans hold so dear. They see us as deficient, It's _us_, friend, that they fear. It's us, wrong minded and obscene; it's us to waste resources; it's us to sow our disrespect, and tack the errant courses. It's us to foul their briny homes; filth eats them all alive! It's us to catch them in our nets then hate them as despised. And still they won't molest us, or give out like they get. Even Orcas won't ingest us though we swam with baby seals, yet! The point's we don't communicate with folks some still think fish! Some humans even eat them -- a refined and genteel dish. Expand the illustration to the folks just down the street -- only slightly better grokking 'til you smell their *dirty* feet. Now we impose our motives, Diz, on creatures from deep space. We would box them into category, we'd assign to them their place. We, that know so little, would pretend to make distinction; we with faith that is untested would provoke our own extinction. We would call them *bad* or *good*, and write for them their ethics. We'd pretend to understand them, and predict, for them, aesthetics. We would make pronouncements on their conduct or abjectness. We would place a value on the methods of their *madness*. We would squeeze a dollar from our wan pontification, and mock a search for honest truth so lost to infestation! We can't speak to human beings that are the very same, but we'd humanize an alien, and ascribe to them our blame. We make them strangely subject to the whims of our psychology, they sell our cars, machines that wash -- they watch our weird philosophy. We're, sure, our most dishonest when we deal amongst ourselves. How in hell can we decide _their_ program; please, do tell! Lehmberg@snowhill.com Especially when no real looking is going on -- except of course by an accepted minority of honest, talented, and concerned individuals, apart from the mainstream, found in an ignorable ufologist fringe. . . Still -- it's jammed up our nose in peculiar ways at every conceivable opportunity, and somebody is *paying* to keep the possibility alive. But a safe possibility -- a controllable, and therefore deniable one. Restore John Ford. -- Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 6 Re: Night-light Sighting From: Laura Hutton <boudicca9@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:21:22 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 20:07:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Night-light Sighting > Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 01:37:17 -0700 > From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> > To: TORONTO LIST <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Night-light sighting > Low strangeness sighting, just in, near San > Francisco.. > Close to midnight on the night of Tues-Weds May 05- 1998 > initial sketchy reports came in over radio KSFO San Francisco. > Three bright green-glowing lights were seen offshore of Mussel > Rock, north of Half Moon Bay, CA which is South of San Francisco > in San Mateo County, CA. I now guestimate rough coordinates of > 122:38W - 37:35 N. <snip> > - Larry Hatch I don't know if this is relevant or not. For what it is worth, there were sonic booms in the Orange County area (Southern Califonria) at about 10:50 pm on the same night (last night). This happens commonly enough and is assumed to be associated with offshore military activity. It used to be said (rumor mill) that the Aurora flew on Thursday mornings if it was cloudy. That hasn't happened in the past few years, however, and we haven't had many sonics in populated areas. And, of course, it's not Thursday. Have no idea how this would be connected with geen lights in Half Moon Bay, but it might indicated some military exercises were going on off shore.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 6 Scientists at Odds with Jeffrey From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net> Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 10:04:57 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 19:48:17 -0400 Subject: Scientists at Odds with Jeffrey From: The Journal of Scientific Exploration web site: http://www.jse.com/PR_Roswell_98.html [reformatted for UpDates] <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> SOCIETY FOR SCIENTIFIC EXPLORATION PRESS RELEASE Embargoed until April 6, 1998 CONTACT: Marsha Sims, Executive Editor, Journal of Scientific Exploration phone: 650-593-8581, fax: 650-595-4466 The Roswell UFO Crash: Myth or Reality Stanford, CA, April 6, 1998 --- The "Roswell Declaration" was formulated in 1994 as a public petition to the government. After summarizing the claim that an extraterrestrial craft crashed near Roswell, New Mexico in 1947, it concludes by requesting that the President issue an Executive Order declassifying any government information that might exist concerning UFOs, regardless of whether positive or negative on the topic. It also requests a termination of any security oaths that might still be prohibiting individuals from openly discussing information they, or the government, might have. One of the prime movers behind this initiative was Kent Jeffrey, an airline pilot by profession. He worked with other key members of the three primary UFO groups (Hynek Center for UFO Studies, the Mutual UFO Network and the Fund for UFO Research) to bring this about. It was thus a surprise and a newsworthy event when Jeffrey published an article in the MUFON Journal last year concluding that his investigations no longer supported the claim of a crashed saucer at Roswell. With Jeffrey's approval and with the permission of MUFON, the Journal of Scientific Exploration obtained permission to reprint the article and to invite two experts in UFO studies to critique it. The Jeffrey article and articles by Prof. Michael Swords, Western Michigan University, and Dr. Robert Wood, a retired research director for McDonnell Douglas, appear in the current issue of the Journal (Vol. 12, No. 1, March). Key arguments made by Jeffrey are: 1.Jesse Marcel, Jr., who handled the wreckage as an 11-year old, gave testimony under hypnosis that shows that it might have been just balloon parts. 2.Sketches of writing on the wreckage made during that testimony compare favorably with writing from a conventional source - flowered tape from a Mogul balloon. 3.The Air Force has released some classified information pertaining to Roswell. 4.Three retired colonels, apparently in a position to have known about a project to examine wreckage, did not know about it. 5.Extraterrestrial spacecraft would be far too advanced and reliable to crash. Wood argues that Jeffrey fails to consider alternative interpretations of the same facts. An example would be the interviews with three colonels retired from the Air Force who all say that the Air Force did not have a covert program. The author simply accepts this as fact without seriously considering the possibilities that one of them lied or that none of them knew about it. Wood argues that: 1.The testimony, captured on 6 hours of video tape, is significantly inconsistent with an ordinary interpretation. Marcel Jr. himself reportedly rejects Jeffrey's interpretation. 2.The sketches proffered show little similarity in detail and may be based upon contaminated sources, since the hieroglyphic writing had much prior media exposure. 3.The Air Force information, obtained via the Freedom of Information Act, is from a source at the secret level of classification which would be irrelevant to the existence of a so-called "black" project. Almost no SCI (Special Compartmented Information) has ever been released for the public. 4.It is just as likely that the personnel interviewed by Jeffrey were kept totally unaware of the existence of a covert project. 5.Speculation on the reliability of extraterrestrial spacecraft could just as easily include consideration of reliability associated with lighting, mid-air crashes, proximity fused shells, or electromagnetic interference caused by radar. Swords critiques the Jeffrey viewpoint on Roswell's alleged crashed disk from the position of a student of the early document exchanges between Wright-Patterson Air Force Base's Intelligence Division and the headquarters of the U.S. Air Force in the Pentagon. This historical research is germane, because Jeffrey admits that it was the reading of three of these documents that changed his entire opinion on the case from strongly "pro-crash" to completely and uncompromisingly "anti." Swords' analysis goes deeply into the background which gives meaning to these documents, and concludes that Jeffrey's interpretations (due to lack of analysis and historical context) are in error in every case. Swords also comments upon the second main element of Jeffrey's piece, a videotaped hypnotic experiment with one of the prominent case witnesses. Swords was one of only five ufologists privileged to view these tapes, and reports that all but Jeffrey interpret the information on the tapes non-prejudicially to the authenticity of the case. Swords sets the debate in its contrasts before the interested public for the readership to decide. A detailed response by Jeffrey will appear in a subsequent issue. ### The Journal of Scientific Exploration is the quarterly peer-reviewed research journal of the Society for Scientific Exploration, an interdisciplinary organization of scholars formed to support unbiased investigation of claimed anomalous phenomena.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 6 Re: New Russian UFO Crash is Not 'New' From: "Greg Jarikov" <greg@pop3.rcom.ru> Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:28:09 +0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 16:17:51 -0400 Subject: Re: New Russian UFO Crash is Not 'New' >From greg@pop3.rcom.ru Wed May 6 08:34:33 1998 X-Authentication-Warning: rcom.spb.su: Host dyn242.rcom.spb.su [194.220.8.242] claimed to be greg.rcom.spb.su >Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:08:37 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: New Russian UFO Crash is Not 'New' >What are we talking about here, a Russian UFO crash or a Chinese >UFO crash?????? >Sounds Chinese to me. Dear Bob, This is an Kirghizian UFO crash. But, if you know, there is a Russian army now in Kirghizia. And especially, of course - in 1991. >Last week in Italy I ran into the woman who is translating Erich >von Daniken's newest book into English. The title of the book is >"The Chinese Roswell", and it sounds to me like this may be the >incident he has written about. >Bob No, this is another crash. It has happened when still there was a USSR. But we have received the information on it just now. It is not so important that it happened in 1991, much more important that the ship NOW is there! Well, Bob, for what I or Nikolay are guilty?.. Greg
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 6 Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net> Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 10:55:34 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 20:01:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >From: "Tim Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 22:54:36 +0100 >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >> Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 15:03:44 +0600 >Dear X, >Never said that aliens are 'irrelevant'. 60 years ago scientists in Germany >were working upon a variety of triangular aircraft including the boomerang >flying wings of the Hortens which were very advanced. The technology was >captured by the allies - much of it was taken to the US and developed >within the White Sands Proving Ground - focal point for part of the >immediate postwar UFO flap....... >Can't say too much more otherwise the message will not be posted. >Belgium - read my book when it comes out! >Tim Matthews Dear Y, You seem to be forgetting just a few facts: 50 years ago, across the world, witnesses started reporting vehicles displaying performances that have been unmatched so far by modern avionics. If you want me to elaborate on the performances, I will be glad to oblige you - I am not as shy towards the list that you seem to be. I urge you to find records of prototypes capable of multi-Gs accelerations and of turns lethal to any living being - within our present scope of technology. You will end up empty-handed. As for your book, I just hope it has more substance than you recent declarations. Serge Salvaille
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 6 Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles From: Bob Tidwell <bob.t@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 11:52:13 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 20:04:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >From: "Tim Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> [Tim Matthews] >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Urgent - Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 02:13:43 +0100 >Dear UpDates, >I read with interest the continuing confusion about flying >triangles, both large and small. The nonsense talked about this >subject is indicative of modern Ufology in that too many people >believe (and that is the operative word) that these aircraft are >'alien spaceships'. A couple of years ago, myself and two other Alabama MUFON officials were returning to Birmingham from the Project Awareness conference in Mobile. We had a chance to view one of the triangular craft at very close range. It was late in the evening, and was just turning dark. We had been observing a couple of lights high in the sky that were moving erratically. The lights winked out, then a few minutes later one of the occupants in our van called our attention to some lights off to the side, below the tree line. There were three horizontal lights, a white one in the middle, with a red light on either side. At first glance the lights looked like the warning lights on transmission tower, except that the lights were growing bigger. The lights turned out to be a dark colored triangular craft that flew directly over the van at just above treetop level. Had there just been only this one craft, I would have questioned myself as to whether or not I had actually seen such a craft (due to the darkness), but in this incident there was a small two- engine propeller airplane chasing the triangle, and very close behind it. This gave an excellent means of comparison to the triangle. The silver color of the airplane was easy to determine. There was enough light in the area to reflect off of the airplane, but the triangle remained dark, as though it were not reflecting any light. I would guess the size of the triangle to be a little larger than a Lear Jet. We clearly heard the engine noise from the airplane, but could detect no noise from the triangle. This encounter lasted only a few seconds as the two craft continued on beyond the tree line on the other side of the interstate, but everyone in the van was in agreement as to what we all had seen. This sighting was in the Ft. Deposit area, just to the south of Maxwell AFB in Montgomery, Alabama. After a follow-up investigation I was able to determine that the triangular craft had been seen by residents in the area for quite some time, and was believed to be connected to Maxwell AFB. Another witness came forward about a year later who told me that what I had seen was a new type of military reconnaissance aircraft that was being flown out of several small secluded airfields in the area. An earlier check with a local police dispatcher had revealed that the local county airport was currently under control of a military group, and that local authorities had been informed that special maneuvers were being held in that area. Two private ultra-light aircraft were kept at the airport, but supposedly had not been flown for some time, due to work being done to the runway by this military group. I'm no longer with MUFON, but am still investigating these reports. I don't know if this relates to other sightings of triangular craft, but this may account for such craft here in Central Alabama. ~~~ Bob Tidwell ~~~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 6 Billy Meier From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de <Joachim Koch> Date: 06 May 98 19:43:00 GMT Fwd Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 22:01:37 -0400 Subject: Billy Meier Hi Errol, Hi List! On behalf of Luc Buergin, Switzerland, and in cooperation with Germany's UFO magazine, the "UFO-KURIER", we would like to present something which might be of interest. ************************************************************** *Another One Bites The Dust* *Billy Meier: The end!* The Swiss ufo contactee Billy Meier is exposed definitely as swindler. This is the conclusion of an American TV-Special which was produced under participation of the Meier critic Kal Korff. The program shall be broadcast worldwide in July 1998. Korff had traveled to Switzerland in March of this year where he interviewed Billy's ex-wife Kalliope together with the Swiss UFO researcher and non-fiction book author Luc Buergin. The basis for this were Kalliope's statements in the German "UFO-KURIER" of April of last year (which was translated by Joachim Koch and presented here). There she had exposed to Buergin the contactee stories of her ex-husband as "lies and deception peeks". Kalliope Meier: "The FIGU obviously has cult-like characteristics. I would like to advise all members to judge Billy's statements critically and not simply to believe him blindly". The highlight of the TV program are excerpts from the legendary Dean Martin show which in the seventies shall have served Billy as the model for his fake photos. Buergin: "Korffs team shows, that 'Asket' - an extraterrestrial allegedly photographed by Meier - is in truth the singer of an American dance formation. Obviously Billy took a photograph of the questionable scenes from the TV screen". On the occasion of Korff's visit to Europe, Buergin has got to know Korff as a really relevant researcher. Says the Swiss: "Korff isn't a sceptic in the classic sense as he is accused occasionally. It is not his intention to explain away all UFOs. He rather wants to divide the truth from the falseness. He contributes with that to the serious investigation of the phenomenon". In March of this year Korffs appearance in the Art-bell-Show caused excitement among Meier's supporters where he was in a debate with Meier-fan Jim Dilettoso. At this he managed to wring the confession from Dilettoso to have peddled with a wrong doctorate for years. Buergin, too, had to cope already with heavy critics for his research by Meier's supporters. Why does he work together with Korff? "One cannot explain away the existence of the UFO phenomenon. I personally favor the extraterrestrial hypothesis for some sightings. Unfortunately, definite proofs of this acceptance are missing yet. Therefore it is most important to throw a spanner into the works of so unscrupulous swindlers like Meier. Only in such a way we can get the science to deal with the ufo phenomenon seriously", says Buergin. *Excerpts from the interview between Kal Korff/Luc Buergin* *and Kalliope Meier in Turbenthal, Switzerland (March 1998)* Kal Korff/Luc Buergin: In your opinion, is the FIGU a sect? Kalliope Meier: After all I have seen, --near the end, before I went away -- I would I say: Yes. My experiences are very mixed. There is a kind of hierarchy. One must go along with that. Otherwise one is excluded. Korff/Buergin: May Billy be doubted about within the FIGU? Meier: Billy isn't criticized in the center. Billy is the best there. This also will remain so. For people there, probably this is all right. You live there. But they should not adore him as an idol and not admire him as God either. Korff/Buergin: Are you religious? Meier: I have grown up strictly religiously. Greek orthodox. I partly have lived in the cloister. I am atheist today. I am a free human. But I accept everybody who has a religion. Everybody shall believe if he finds this good. I want to change nobody. Everybody is responsible for himself. Korff/Buergin: You live in Turbenthal today. You feel better than before? Meier: I have to be content. When I went away I felt very bad. I had lost the floor under the feet, lost reality. I have tried to organize my life newly. I had to say to myself: I must begin a new life after 30 years. Today, I really feel good. I am content. I have somehow found the way ... (end of excerpt) ***************************************************************** Joachim Koch, Hans-Juergen Kyborg *Homepage International Roswell Initiative, Germany:* > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jkoch1 < *Update of May: News about Billy Meier*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 6 Astronomers Study Deep-Space Blast From: RSchatte <RSchatte@aol.com> [Rebecca] Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:58:18 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 22:19:00 -0400 Subject: Astronomers Study Deep-Space Blast From: AOL News <AOLNews@aol.com> Subject: Astronomers Study Deep-Space Blast Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:53:32 EDT Astronomers Study Deep-Space Blast .c The Associated Press By PAUL RECER WASHINGTON (AP) - The most powerful explosion ever witnessed - a gamma ray burst 12 billion light years distant - released in one second almost as much energy as all the stars of the universe, astronomers said Wednesday. It was too far away to affect the Earth or the sun, but the astronomers said they were astounded by the might of the blast and mystified about what astronomical process could have caused it. ``The energy released by this burst in its first few seconds staggers the imagination,'' said Shrinivas Kulkarni, a professor of astronomy at California Institute of Technology and leader of a team that helped calculate the explosion size. Kulkarni is co-author of a study being published Thursday in the journal Nature. He and others appeared at a Washington news conference Wednesday. Gamma ray bursts are common, occurring once or twice a day, but the rays are invisible and can be detected only by satellites orbiting above the Earth's atmosphere. Since a burst lasts only seconds, astronomers rarely are able to focus telescopes on the source and capture light measurements needed to calculate the size of the explosion or pin down its location. But on the night of Dec. 14, an Italian team detected a gamma ray burst with the BeppoSAX orbiting observatory and quickly alerted David J. Helfand, a Columbia University astronomer. Helfand relayed the information to astronomers operating telescopes at Kitt Peak near Tucson, Ariz. , who were able to photograph the source site of the burst. Later, the Hubble Space Telescope and others captured views of the explosion's afterglow, which was in visible light. The studies revealed the source as a very faint and distant galaxy. Kulkarni and others analyzed the energy and light released from the object and concluded it was about 12 billion light years away. A light year, the distance light travels in a year, is about 5.9 trillion miles. This great distance meant that the explosion was immensely powerful, Kulkarni said. ``I was astounded when I heard these results,'' said Stan Woosley, a professor of astronomy at the University of California, Santa Cruz, and an expert on astronomical explosions. ``This was the brightest documented explosion in history.'' Woosley said the total energy release was equal to about 5 billion supernovae, exploding stars that previously provided the most powerful documented sudden releases of energy. In visible light alone, Woosley said, the gamma ray burst energy was equal to about 1,000 supernovae. By some calculations, the gamma ray burst release equaled as much energy in one second as all of the 10 billion trillion stars in the universe combined. Woosley said it is difficult to relate the power to common terms. For instance, he said, if all of the nuclear weapons ever made were exploded at once, the energy released would equal about 1/100,000 of a second of the energy from Earth's sun. Yet, over its 10 billion-year history the sun will produce only about 1 percent of the energy of the gamma ray burst, the astronomer said. Gamma ray bursts were unknown until the launch of U.S. military satellites designed to detect radiation from the explosion of atomic bombs. Later, scientific satellites were launched to study the bursts, but astronomers remained mystified. ``We had no idea where they came from or what was responsible for them,'' said Alan Bunner, a science program director at NASA. More than 2,000 of the brief bursts have been recorded, but astronomers were unable until recently to pinpoint their location or measure their distance from Earth. The location of three has been determined. Kulkarni said all the bursts have been located in dusty regions where stars form, suggesting the massive explosions may play a role in the birth of new stars. Woosley and others speculate that the explosion may occur when a black hole swallows a neutron star. A black hole is a collapsed object that is so dense that its gravity permits not even light to escape, and a neutron star is a massive collapsed star. Woosley acknowledged the explanation remains only speculation. Astronomers believe the immense explosion just detected sent matter, such as neutrons and electrons, streaking outward at near the speed of light. About a day later, the matter smashed into gas and dust particles. The violence and heat of the collision created gamma rays, X-rays, then visible light. It was these energy sources detected by the orbiting instruments and later by the telescopes. AP-NY-05-06-98 1750EDT Copyright 1998 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 7 'Skyquakes' In Southern California? From: Stig Agermose <interstate@supernews.com> Date: 7 May 1998 03:14:05 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 08:02:12 -0400 Subject: 'Skyquakes' In Southern California? Received via "alt.ufo.reports". Stig ******* Subject: SKYQUAKES IN SO CAL--ALERT!!! From: ryfyrman91@aol.com (RYFYRMAN91) Date: 1998/05/06 Message-ID: <1998050609353900.FAA21953@ladder03.news.aol.com> Newsgroups: alt.ufo.reports ALERT ALERT ALERT!! This is NOT a joke, or hoax, or rantings of a nutcase! I am a Communications Dispatcher for 911 for a major fire department in Southern California. At approximately 2200hrs, PST, on May 5, 1998, the 911 and business lines begin to light up with calls. Several police agencies in Orange County and South Eastern Los Angeles County reported the same thing, that they were being deluged with calls reference something strange going on. Apparently 1000's were startled by 2 large noises that rattled windows, walls, and in one case reported directly to me, caused a door on the inside of an 8000 sq ft home to vibrate rapidly. I personally took at least 50 phone calls and I asked specific questions as to type of noise, length between noises, physical effects, if any injuries, and anything else. Here is what was reported... 1. Noise description: explosion, thumps, earthquake noise, window rattling noise, "thuds" 2. Space between noises: 100% of calls I received stated at least 5 mins between events. 3. Physical effects: No damage reported/100% of callers stated windows rattled anywhere from a little to violently/Curious common observation by many police dispatchers I called right after the main slew of phone calls died down was that many callers thought that "someone was breaking into their homes"....I find that description particulary strange/One caller stated her dog acted very strange during and after, but due to phone traffic, I was unable to question her further/100% of my callers reported to me how strange that even though what happened was startling and shocking, that they felt NO MOVEMENT......we confirmed at my Dispatch Center that there was absolutely no seismic activity. We double confirmed that with the Internet keying into Cal Tech. 4. No injuries....although MANY callers were clearly shaken. Emotional voices, raised pitch of voices..... The media picked up on this immediately but offered nothing to the viewing audience (we were watching the NBC affiliate in LA--KNBC). They stated that most likely we were all hearing military exercises coming in from Camp Pendleton and/or Et Toro. I personally called those 2 bases to unlisted emergency numbers that I have access to and was told both times that there was absolutely nothing on their end that caused those noises. Both numbers had people on the phone that new what they were doing and were EXTREMELY RELIABLE. I posted this to get responses and start discussion. This is NOT A HOAX situation....I have much more better things to do with my time......Thank you very much. I invite all respSend.x ---
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 7 Re: Skyquake In SO CA From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 07:15:52 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 08:14:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Skyquake In SO CA Sorry, but I didn't know that the Supernews server only takes very short emails and snipped mine. This is the full version. Stig ******* Subject: SKYQUAKES IN SO CAL--ALERT!!! From: ryfyrman91@aol.com (RYFYRMAN91) Date: 1998/05/06 Message-ID: <1998050609353900.FAA21953@ladder03.news.aol.com> Newsgroups: alt.ufo.reports ALERT ALERT ALERT!! This is NOT a joke, or hoax, or rantings of a nutcase! I am a Communications Dispatcher for 911 for a major fire department in Southern California. At approximately 2200hrs, PST, on May 5, 1998, the 911 and business lines begin to light up with calls. Several police agencies in Orange County and South Eastern Los Angeles County reported the same thing, that they were being deluged with calls reference something strange going on. Apparently 1000's were startled by 2 large noises that rattled windows, walls, and in one case reported directly to me, caused a door on the inside of an 8000 sq ft home to vibrate rapidly. I personally took at least 50 phone calls and I asked specific questions as to type of noise, length between noises, physical effects, if any injuries, and anything else. Here is what was reported... 1. Noise description: explosion, thumps, earthquake noise, window rattling noise, "thuds" 2. Space between noises: 100% of calls I received stated at least 5 mins between events. 3. Physical effects: No damage reported/100% of callers stated windows rattled anywhere from a little to violently/Curious common observation by many police dispatchers I called right after the main slew of phone calls died down was that many callers thought that "someone was breaking into their homes"....I find that description particulary strange/One caller stated her dog acted very strange during and after, but due to phone traffic, I was unable to question her further/100% of my callers reported how strange that even though what happened was startling and shocking, that they felt NO MOVEMENT......we confirmed at my Dispatch Center that there was absolutely no seismic activity. We double confirmed that with the Internet keying into Cal Tech. 4. No injuries....although MANY callers were clearly shaken. Emotional voices, raised pitch of voices..... The media picked up on this immediately but offered nothing to the viewing audience (we were watching the NBC affiliate in LA--KNBC). They stated that most likely we were all hearing military exercises coming in from Camp Pendleton and/or Et Toro. I personally called those 2 bases to unlisted emergency numbers that I have access to and was told both times that there was absolutely nothing on their end that caused those noises. Both numbers had people on the phone that knew what they were doing and were EXTREMELY RELIABLE. I posted this to get responses and start discussion. This is NOT A HOAX situation....I have much more better things to do with my time......Thank you very much. I invite all responders to show up......That's cool...... RYAN H. TURNER Show Design Consultant/Marching Instructor/Judge Orange County, California Former DM for Velvet Knights Drum and Bugle Corps (1986--James Bond Show....1987--Original Magical Mystery Show)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 7 Re: Night-light Sighting From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 02:36:33 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 08:20:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Night-light Sighting >Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:21:22 -0700 (PDT) >From: Laura Hutton <boudicca9@yahoo.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Night-light Sighting >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> > > Low strangeness sighting, just in, near San Francisco.. > > Close to midnight on the night of Tues-Weds May 05- 1998 > > initial sketchy reports came in over radio KSFO San Francisco. > > Three bright green-glowing lights were seen offshore of Mussel > > Rock, north of Half Moon Bay, CA which is South of San Francisco > > in San Mateo County, CA. I now guestimate rough coordinates of > > 122:38W - 37:35 N. <snip> > > - Larry Hatch > I don't know if this is relevant or not. For what it is worth, > there were sonic booms in the Orange County area (Southern > Califonria) at about 10:50 pm on the same night (last night). > This happens commonly enough and is assumed to be associated with > offshore military activity. It used to be said (rumor mill) that > the Aurora flew on Thursday mornings if it was cloudy. That > hasn't happened in the past few years, however, and we haven't > had many sonics in populated areas. And, of course, it's not > Thursday. > Have no idea how this would be connected with geen lights in Half > Moon Bay, but it might indicated some military exercises were > going on off shore. Dear Laura: I should correct my first post (above) 1) The actual time was about 2100 hrs ( 9:00 PM ) Tuesday nite. So, the Daly City event up north preceded the Orange County sonic booms, if thats what they were. 2) I narrowed the site down to about 122:35W - 37:43N, i.e. further North toward San Francisco. 3) This is almost exactly where the San Andreas Fault runs out to sea to the north-northwest. 4) At almost the same spot just offshore, there was a similar sighting on 15NOV57. A white glowing object hovered. A policeman and others watched for 10 minutes while it shifted to and fro. Whether there is any connection to military exercises is a good question in this case .. but the 1957 case sounds more like one of those "Earthlights" type events, which are occasionally reported. In any case, I strongly doubt it is a valid UFO event. (I have plenty of those listed in my database.) Maybe we should be looking into earthquake insurance Best wishes - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 7 Re: 4 Million Year Old Man From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 07:34:54 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 08:15:39 -0400 Subject: Re: 4 Million Year Old Man >From the Nando Times. URL: http://www.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/health/050698/health3_22964_noframes.h tml Stig ******* Scientists believe they've found 4-million-year-old man Copyright =A91998 Nando.net Copyright =A91998 Reuters News Service NEW YORK (May 6, 1998 3:08 p.m. EDT http://www.nando.net) - A group of scientists say they have conclusive evidence that fossils they discovered in Kenya in 1995 are from the earliest known ancestor of man to walk erect, more than 4 million years ago. In an article published in Thursday's issue of the British journal Nature, the scientists said tests on volcanic material from the area of the find confirm the fossils' age at between 4.07 million years to 4.12 million years, pushing the emergence of walking on two legs back more than 500,000 years. "These tests basically remove any doubt that the origins of bipedalism go back well over 4 million years," said Craig Feibel, a Rutgers University geologist, in a phone interview. Feibel wrote the article along with Meave Leakey of the National Museums of Kenya, Ian McDougall of Australia National University, Carol Ward of the University of Missouri and Alan Walker of Penn State University Feibel said the new findings also would lay to rest concerns in the scientific community that the fossils of the animal they named Australopithecus anamensis actually were from two different types of hominids, or members of the human family. The teeth and jaws of anamensis were found at different layers of rock -- in Kanapoi, southwest of Lake Turkana in northern Kenya, and Allia Bay, east of the lake -- from the rest of the skeleton, giving rise to doubts that they were from the same animal. The jaw and teeth are very ape-like with parallel tooth rows, unlike human jaws where the teeth widen as you go back. A partial fossil found of a tibia, one of the larger leg bones, shows strong evidence of bipedality, however, and a lower humerus (or arm bone) is very like modern man's. The tests, done on volcanic matter in layers above the limbones, yielded dates of 4.07 million years ago, leading to the conclusion that fossilized bones found in layers below were older, Feibel said. "It wasn't until 1996 that we discovered materials in this layer that we could actually date," Feibel said. "The age proves that there is only a very short interval of time represented by the fossils, and essentially they are all very old; so in a sense, that supports their all being from the same species." Copyright =A91998 Nando.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 7 Re: UFOR: Brother Blue & The Colonel From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 23:34:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 08:11:25 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOR: Brother Blue & The Colonel >Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 16:22:06 -0400 (EDT) >From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> >Subject: UFOR: ::: Brother Blue & The Colonel ::: >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Blue Resonant Human <density4@cts.com> <snip> >Should we, however, emerge unscathed from our journey through >this Abyss, we shall share freely all our findings for, as our >beloved Frater R:.A:.W:. hath so eloquently stated, "the only >truly courageous act left is to tell the truth about everything." >Let us, therefore, meditate upon these things. >-Brother Blue, B:.B:. > Brotherhood of Galactic Science I can only second your beloved Frater's Statment. How can one preport to walk in light if they speak from darkness? REgards, Mike The fastest way to respond to this message is through the ICQ Network. A message sent this way will go directly to my screen. If you have ICQ you can message me at ICQ#:7508455. If you don't have ICQ you can page me through: My Personal Communication Center: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/7508455 (go there and try it!) Or you can send me a regular e-mail to my EmailExpress address: 7508455@pager.mirabilis.com. Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/ Include your ICQ details in YOUR e-mail signature: http://www.icq.com/emailsig.html. My BBS Telephone Number is: (502) 683-3026 My Fax Number is: (502) 686-7394 My Home Telephone Number is: (502) 683-6811 Michael Christol ----------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 7 Re: Yellowstone Offers Clue To Martian Life From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 07:30:41 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 08:14:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Yellowstone Offers Clue To Martian Life >From the Nando Times. URL: http://www.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/health/050698/health5_20504_noframes.h tml Stig ******* Yellowstone offers insight about Mars to NASA Copyright =A91998 Nando.net Copyright =A91998 The Christian Science Monitor (May 6, 1998 12:56 p.m. EDT http://www.nando.net) -- Ten years from now, a spacecraft possibly carrying extraterrestrial life will land on Earth after an extended unmanned mission to Mars. While the purpose of that historic trip - bringing home Martian soil for firsthand examination - could yield substantive proof that we are not alone in the universe, the voyage itself comes replete with its own cosmic perils. For NASA and world health officials, the essential challenge is determining how much of a biological threat, if any, microscopic organisms plucked from the Red Planet pose to both humans and the larger global ecosystem. "There's no reason to put the Earth at risk due to our own biological ignorance. That's why we are exploring every possible safeguard," says John Rummel, NASA's newly appointed "planetary protection officer." In its preparations for the mission, one of the first places NASA turned is the surreal, otherworldly interior of Yellowstone National Park, where scientists believe that microbes inhabiting park hot springs could provide a preview of what awaits the robotic lander on Mars. Thriving in conditions where other animals would perish, Yellowstone microbes thrive in a place with 300-degree temperature fluctuations, surrounded by corrosive acids that can eat through steel, and within toxic, oxygen-deprived niches that appear deceivingly sterile. Much like Mars. Indeed, some astral ecologists believe the primitive life forms here may be distant relatives - analogues - of Martian microbes swept together through the Milky Way on comets or asteroids billions of years ago and deposited on the neighboring infant planets. And in many ways, Yellowstone's enigmatic concentration of thermal phenomena provides a glimpse at earthly life when Gaea was younger, cradling a more hostile and simplified landscape. "The premise behind our research is that if you want to better understand the organisms that may have existed, or still do exist, in the extreme conditions on Mars, a logical place to look for possible comparison is in the extreme environments on Earth," says microbiologist Fred Albert, hoisting a rack of colorful microbial "extremophiles" from hot springs. >From their small laboratory at Montana Biotech, a company located at the end of a dirt road near Belgrade, Mont., Albert and fellow microbiologist Joan Combie are assisting NASA in identifying potential planetary parallels. According to Carlton Allen, a scientist with Lockheed-Martin based at the Johnson Space Center in Houston, Yellowstone's role has grown in prominence since the discovery in 1996 of the so-called Mars meteorite in Antarctica. This chunk of what could be Martian debris is believed to have been cast off into space 16 million years ago after an asteroid collided with the planet and sent the fragment sailing toward an eventual rendezvous with Earth 13,000 years ago. Allen, who worked on the team assigned to investigate the meteorite, says it contains a tiny worm-like sliver of what might be a microbial fossil. What's remarkable is that it bears a likeness to organisms studied by Combie and Albert in Yellowstone. Researchers say that many of Yellowstone's extremophiles occupy a different branch on the tree of life than the vast majority of other earthly organisms grouped in the domains eucarya (which includes humans, plants, and fungi) and bacteria. Characterized under the heading archaea, these creatures have an amazing lineage that extends deep in the geologic record to the twilight of Earth's organic origins. Rather than deriving sustenance from other carbon life forms, some of the archaea are sulfur and silica eaters. "To put the breadth of this domain in perspective, there is more similarity between people and trees than between certain species of archaea," Albert says. "They challenge us to expand the definition of 'normal life.' " The theory is that ancestors of these tiny creatures, fertilized by cosmic dust and changed little by evolution over the past 3.5 billion years, sprang to life in our ancient oceans and persist in Yellowstone's geothermal zones because the habitat is still relatively unaltered. It is possible that such life could have followed a similar path to Mars when it, too, had vast seas and active volcanism. Allen says it is unclear whether any Martian remnants survive or what might happen if they were to somehow reawaken on Earth. He notes that the next Mars lander will collect samples mostly from rocks and areas of subsurface crust where evidence of ancient life may be clustered. So "there are real concerns, both scientific and legal, about bringing back rock and soil samples from far away places because of legitimate worries about transporting hidden microbes and bugs," Allen says. "In the U.S. you can't even bring back a box of dirt from Central Africa without encountering tight restrictions, so you can imagine the fears about hauling back dirt from space." In advance of that, Combie and Albert are refining the process of identifying microorganisms by isolating and, in some cases, arousing to life, microbes embedded in Yellowstone travertine to see how they can be manipulated. "Using Yellowstone organisms ... NASA wants to know if they can sterilize whatever is brought back," Combie says. "What recent tests show is that some microbes are surprisingly resilient." A few months ago, public-health officials bombarded organisms with high levels of gamma rays to see what it would take to destroy potentially hazardous microbes. It's the same sterilization techniques used to successfully kill threats such as the Ebola virus - but the Yellowstone microbes were able to withstand the high dosage levels of radiation, leading researchers to view potential Martian life with greater reverence. This is one reason NASA is reevaluating its quarantine procedure. While its methods worked 30 years ago when Apollo 11 returned with the first payload of moon rocks, Rummel says today that NASA would follow a different, more stringent protocol. During the Apollo missions, astronauts were in the same, sealed compartment as the quarantined material. That caused problems when the humans needed to get out long before the moon rocks would have ordinarily been allowed out of quarantine. Those specimens proved biologically sterile, but Rummel says Martian rock has more potential for nurturing life. Therefore, once the Mars lander returns, it is probable that any soil samples will remain enclosed for several months, if not years, before they are deemed safe. Still, despite the potential dangers, officials say the benefits derived from probing Mars far outweigh any risks. If evidence of life on Mars is confirmed, Allen says, the discovery will enable scientists to narrow their focus to two primary theories: Either life arose at one place in the solar system and meteorites flying back and forth have spread it, or life arose completely separately in the first two places humans looked. "While both possibilities are exciting, the latter leads to endless speculation because it shows how easy it apparently is for so-called 'life' to get started," he says. "And that has some real implications for how we think about the rest of the solar system and the universe." By Todd Wilkinson, Special to The Christian Science Monitor Copyright =A91998 Nando.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 7 Re: Scientists at Odds with Jeffrey From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 08:25:08 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 08:34:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientists at Odds with Jeffrey >Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 10:04:57 -0700 >From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Scientists at Odds with Jeffrey >From: >The Journal of Scientific Exploration web site: >http://www.jse.com/PR_Roswell_98.html >[reformatted for UpDates] > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> >SOCIETY FOR SCIENTIFIC EXPLORATION >PRESS RELEASE >Embargoed until April 6, 1998 >CONTACT: Marsha Sims, Executive Editor, Journal of Scientific >Exploration >phone: 650-593-8581, fax: 650-595-4466 >The Roswell UFO Crash: Myth or Reality >Stanford, CA, April 6, 1998 --- The "Roswell Declaration" was >formulated in 1994 as a public petition to the government. After >summarizing the claim that an extraterrestrial craft crashed near >Roswell, New Mexico in 1947, it concludes by requesting that the >President issue an Executive Order declassifying any government >information that might exist concerning UFOs, regardless of >whether positive or negative on the topic. It also requests a >termination of any security oaths that might still be prohibiting >individuals from openly discussing information they, or the >government, might have. >One of the prime movers behind this initiative was Kent Jeffrey, >an airline pilot by profession. He worked with other key members >of the three primary UFO groups (Hynek Center for UFO Studies, >the Mutual UFO Network and the Fund for UFO Research) to bring >this about. >It was thus a surprise and a newsworthy event when Jeffrey >published an article in the MUFON Journal last year concluding >that his investigations no longer supported the claim of a >crashed saucer at Roswell. It was not a surprise to those of us who had scoped Jeffrey out as a "mole" for some time. Doesn't the timing of Jeffrey's "conversion" strike you as just a bit to convenient? He derailed the Roswell Declaration just at the most vulnerable and crucial time, and insured that it would not be taken seriously or lead to any release of information. The man is a traitor. >With Jeffrey's approval and with the permission of MUFON, the >Journal of Scientific Exploration obtained permission to reprint >the article and to invite two experts in UFO studies to critique >it. The Jeffrey article and articles by Prof. Michael Swords, >Western Michigan University, and Dr. Robert Wood, a retired >research director for McDonnell Douglas, appear in the current >issue of the Journal (Vol. 12, No. 1, March). <snip> All well and good, but too little too late. Jeffrey has done his damage and crawled back under his rock. What can we accomplish now? The issue is dead. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 7 Successful Experiment On 'Guiding' Rain Clouds? From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:24:40 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 08:30:43 -0400 Subject: Successful Experiment On 'Guiding' Rain Clouds? >From the Star Online. URL: http://www.jaring.my/~star/wednesday/06jqtr.html Stig ******* Wednesday, May 6, 1998 Tests on rain cloud a success, claims US firm PETALING JAYA: The American company which tested its "technology" that could purportedly "guide" rain clouds to water catchment areas in the Klang Valley claimed yesterday that its experiment was a success. To a question whether his experiments had been fruitful, the man behind the "technology" -- Trevor James Constable -- said in a telephone interview: "Yes, I think so." "I have submitted the results to the rightful authorities. It is in their hands now," he added. Asked if he had submitted the results to Deputy Prime Minister Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim, Constable -- the chief operating officer of the Singapore-registered TJC Atmos Engineering -- said: "Negative". However, he declined to say how his "technology" worked and how he measured the success of his experiment saying: "No comment. I don't have time. I am busy packing up to leave tomorrow for America." When approached at his hotel room in Kuala Lumpur later, Constable again declined to be interviewed saying he was busy packing up. Constable was dubbed a "high-tech bomoh" in 1991 when he claimed he could solve the Malacca drought by creating rain through manipulation of chi and ether. The Government, however, did not pay Constable his fee of RM3.2mil then because he failed to raise the water level at the Durian Tunggal dam. He is described as a pioneer in "etheric weather engineering" and has written several books, including The Cosmic Pulse of Life: The Revolutionary Biological Power Behind UFOs . Anwar said last month that the Government had agreed to allow an American company to work together with Puncak Niaga Sdn Bhd and the RMAF to "guide" clouds towards water catchment areas to facilitate cloud-seeding activities. Copyright =A9 1998 Star Publications (M) Bhd (No: 10894-D). All rights reserved
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 7 Re: New Russian UFO Crash is Not 'New' From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 08:05:05 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 08:32:27 -0400 Subject: Re: New Russian UFO Crash is Not 'New' >From: "Greg Jarikov" <greg@pop3.rcom.ru> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: New Russian UFO Crash is Not 'New' >Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:28:09 +0400 >>From greg@pop3.rcom.ru Wed May 6 08:34:33 1998 >X-Authentication-Warning: rcom.spb.su: Host dyn242.rcom.spb.su >[194.220.8.242] claimed to be greg.rcom.spb.su >>Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:08:37 -0400 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: New Russian UFO Crash is Not 'New' >>What are we talking about here, a Russian UFO crash or a Chinese >>UFO crash?????? >>Sounds Chinese to me. >Dear Bob, >This is an Kirghizian UFO crash. But, if you know, there is a >Russian army now in Kirghizia. > >And especially, of course - in 1991. >>Last week in Italy I ran into the woman who is translating Erich >>von Daniken's newest book into English. The title of the book is >>"The Chinese Roswell", and it sounds to me like this may be the >>incident he has written about. >>Bob >No, this is another crash. >It has happened when still there was a USSR. >But we have received the information on it just now. >It is not so important that it happened in 1991, much more >important that the ship NOW is there! >Well, Bob, for what I or Nikolay are guilty?.. >Greg Greg, You are not guilty of anything. I was just trying to clear this up for myself if these were the same event or not. You say they are not, so that answers my question. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 7 CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:22:16 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 08:29:36 -0400 Subject: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved >From "alt.ufo.reports". Stig ******* Subject: SO CAL SKYQUAKE UPDATE!! From: ryfyrman91@aol.com (RYFYRMAN91) Date: 1998/05/07 Newsgroups: alt.ufo.reports FROM ORANGE COUNTY, CA..... This is to make sure that everyone is aware that this "SKYQUAKE" has turned out to be sonic booms from the space shuttle landing at Vandenburg. Apparently its flight path went right over the cities that were calling in to me at the 911 Center... Sorry for the alarm, however, if you were sitting in my chair at the 911 Center when the phones went nuts. And the descriptions of the sounds and events were strange, so that's why I sounded the alarm. Sorry.... Ryan H. Turner Orange County, CA
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 7 British Farmers Asked To Help In Mutilation From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 04:55:30 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 09:28:29 -0400 Subject: British Farmers Asked To Help In Mutilation >From Phenomena Online's news section. URL: http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~fair/Phenomena/mutilapr98.htm Stig ******* Exclusive! Farmers Asked To Help In Mutilation Research On the face of it, the advert in the current edition of Farmers Weekly (April 17-23 1998) seems straight forward. "An Appeal for Assistance to all Farmers, Veterinary Surgeons and Animal Welfare Officers. Any discovered fresh animal carcasses with specific unusual injuries sought by Manchester-based Professor of Pathology for research purposes." But Phenomena On-Line can exclusively reveal that this advert has been placed by the UFO research group Quest International who are currently researching animal mutilations across Britain. "I have a number of cases I am following up at the moment", said David Cayton "but the problem is that it is often too late for proper investigations to be carried out on carcasses because of the time lapse from discovery until I am informed." For years UFO investigators have suspected that many unexplained animal deaths are the result of alien experimentation and the Farmers Weekly advert details some of the tell-tale signs: *1-3cm diameter neat holes in the centre of the skull *amputation of limbs *complete blood loss, and *occasional organ removal via small, neat holes. "There was a recent case in Wales where the police had been called in and when I spoke to them over the telephone they were a little suspicious that I was able to tell them what injuries to look for." said David "I think that this particular case had all the hallmarks of alien mutilation". About 18 months ago in the High Peak, an area well know for UFO sightings, a number of sheep were found dead and mutilated on the South Yorkshire/Derbyshire border on the Woodhead Pass. Speaking at the time in the Glossop Chronicle community police officer Kevin Ratcliffe said that the method of killing was unclear and that the animals had been 'butchered' at the site, rather than being taken away. David Cayton of Quest International says that he plans to make available to farmers the details of any autopsies carried out and that a report will be sent to the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (MAFF). In the meantime if you have any information that you feel may be of benefit to David's research he can be contacted via Phenomena On-Line (link).
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 7 Current-Encounters: Ref: Tim Matthews From: "Victor J.Kean" <VICTOR_J_KEAN@COMPUSERVE.COM> Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 05:32:57 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 09:36:01 -0400 Subject: Current-Encounters: Ref: Tim Matthews List members... This individual wonders why he is failing to get his message across and writes >"The only response from 'concerned Ufologists' has been to smear >me and to attempt to have me banned from Conferences! " ===================== T.Matthews seems to have forgotten his recent personal attacks on the integrity of many dedicated and well-respected UK 'Ufolgists' such as Irene Bott, Omar Fowler and Ron West who have spent the past 40 years diligently trying to throw some light upon the UFO phenomenon. This is the *sole* reason that he is no longer welcomed at UK Conferences. Regards Victor J.Kean Project FT www.farshore.force9.co.uk.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 7 NEWS FLASH: Cranwell & UFOs From: georgina@easynet.co.uk [Georgina Bruni] Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 14:42:45 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 10:01:46 -0400 Subject: NEWS FLASH: Cranwell & UFOs HOT GOSSIP UK NEWS FLASH www.hotgossip.co.uk UFOs AND THE CRANWELL SYMPOSIUM From NICK POPE, London (UK) 6t May 1998 On 27th April the Daily Mail and the Daily Express ran stories that staff at RAF Fylingdales had tracked a UFO travelling over the North Sea at speeds of 24,000 mph. The information apparently came from military sources and said that radar systems had picked up a UFO which was the size of a battleship. It was further claimed that this sighting and other UFO events were to be discussed at a symposium to be held at RAF College Cranwell. This whole affair has been the subject of much debate among the UFO lobby, and I undertook to make some enquiries to clarify the position. On the basis of these enquiries, I can now confirm the following: While there are many instances where UFOs have been tracked on military radar, the particular events described in the recent media reports did not happen. The story seems to have been cobbled together by taking pieces of general information from old UFO stories and spuriously linking them with the Cranwell event. I have been reliably informed of the identity of the source for this story, and told that this is not the first time that the individual concerned has put out a spurious defence related story. There is to be a two day operational and technical symposium at RAF College Cranwell, which will discuss the military exploitation of space. The event will be held on 4th and 5th June, and is designed to raise awareness of military space systems with both the military and the commercial community. There will be a series of briefings and discussions on policy, doctrine, recent technological advances and procurement. There was never any intention that the issue of UFOs would be discussed. NICK POPE.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 7 Filer's Files #18 From: Majorstar <Majorstar@aol.com> [George Filer] Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:39:43 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 10:00:03 -0400 Subject: Filer's Files #18 Filer's Files #18-1998 MUFON Skywatch Investigations George A. Filer, MUFON Eastern Director, May 6, 1998 Majorstar@aol.com (609) 654-0020 Sightings continue with indications of large electrical output and plasma balls. CONNECTICUT MUFON State Section Director Bruce Tilden and Assistant State Director, Mark Cashman report a hovering UFO was observed around 9:00 PM on April 18 or 19, 1998. The witness was driving to Middletown when he drove slowly past the Mount Higby Reservoir and saw the UFO from three observation points. (Latitude 41.538515N Longitude -72.722789W.) He also provided a sketch of the object. The investigators will be revisiting the witness and the site for site photographs and a reenactment. Based on the initial information, my calculations indicate that the object was at an approximate altitude of about 50 feet above the reservoir, at an approximate distance of 500 feet. The UFO was a 100 feet across. The object was hovering over the water near some pine trees and its reflection was observed in the water. There were three lights in a triangle formation, which were very bright point sources that do not seem to have cast light on the nearby trees. The lights were slightly bluish white, closer to fluorescent light than halogen. No scintillation was observed, but some halation may have been present due to the brightness. The object was twisted such that the closest point was skewed slightly to the west. The witness did not see the object in front of any background objects at any position. Therefore it remains possible that these were three lights in formation rather than an object. No thickness was discerned. The witness did observe the lights through trees from the third reference point, which is about 30 feet higher than the other two locations. The triangulation indicates that the object or formation was close to or over the west shore of the reservoir. The observation between locations one and two may have been about a half minute. No engine interference was noted. The object turned out its lights or was obscured shortly after the witness passed the third observation point. The witness constructed a model of the object by tearing paper into a triangle and demonstrating the orientation of the object with the model. He seems to be stable, courteous, intelligent, and cooperative. His mother indicates that the witness was shaking and would not immediately enter the house after his sighting. The investigation is continuing. Thanks to Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman GEORGIA A 21 year old male witness living in Comer and physics major at the University of Georgia, senior year reports a UFO sighting. The witness was interviewed two days after his April 25, 1998, sighting. He stated, he was at home on 25 April when his 15 year old brother came inside about 11:50 PM and stated there was an unusual light hovering on the distant horizon. The witness being an amateur astronomer in conjunction with his physics major then checked sky charts for bright celestial objects and found none. He continued outside with some 7X35 binoculars and located a fuzzy dull red line object in the southern horizon. It was brighter or more focused in the middle, and fuzzy toward the edges. It was horizontal, and about as long as an aspirin is wide when held at arm's length. He watched it for ten minutes. The UFO suddenly moved about 45 degrees to the SE at an incredible speed, then hovered there for about a minute. The UFO quickly returned its initial southern position. He was unable to identify the object and returned inside, leaving his brother to continue the observation. The total sighting was for 30 minutes. Follow-up investigation into this matter continues. Thanks to ISUR Board member John Thompson. Information was received on 29 April regarding a gigantic UFO that slowly overflew Marietta Georgia in 1959, ten years before MUFON's existence. This event was observed by hundreds of citizens and reported to the air traffic controller at the adjacent Dobbins AFB and to the local newspapers. The reporting witness is a retired long distance telephone operator and life long Marietta area resident. She stated that she was driving south on Fairground Street near downtown at about 10:30 PM. As she approached Lawrence Street she indicated that it could not have been more than 300 to 400 feet in altitude and was almost right over them and slightly to the front. She indicated that she and her aunt looked right up at its bottom side as it passed. She described it as being about the size of a football field, egg shaped, no protuberances on its surface, and glowing a silver color about the same intensity and shade as the full moon. The witness was raised a mile from Dobbins Air Force Base and the Lockheed Georgia Company and this was nothing like she had ever observed. The object passed directly overhead. She phoned the Dobbins tower about 30 minutes later and was told that their phones were "burning up" with citizens' reports of the craft. One of the newspapers ran headlines about the UFO the next day. Thanks to Chief Sheets, GA State MUFON Director. COLORADO After eight weeks of blissful relief, the livestock surgeons appear to have returned to the San Luis Valley, located in south central Colorado. Junne and Virgil Walkley were returning home when they happened upon a "mutilated cow" that appeared to be dropped on a fence line twelve miles east of Alamosa, CO. The animal had apparently been dead for three or four days. It was lying on its back directly on an old fence line that extended north-to-south, on the western edge of the San Luis Valley Ranch Estates. The Walkley's are subscribers to the Mysterious Valley Report, and avid skywatchers. The mandible flesh and hide had been removed cleanly from around the lower teeth, up and around the jaw, and back under the lower jaw around to the lower teeth. The rear end and lower internal organs had been reamed by coyotes and scavenging birds. At this time, the owner of the animal has not been established and no report has been made to authorities. A thorough investigation of the crime-scene was unable to locate any further clues as to the identity of the perpetrators. This makes seven cases in a perfect crescent-line along the Alamosa River. Thanks to Christopher O'Brien, CAUS/Skywatch, http://home.amigo.net/tmv NEW MEXICO ISUR Sighting: Matt G. Radley reports he saw a UFO between 8:30 PM and 11:00 PM on April 27, 1998. He first noticed a light west of Portales that did not move for a long time. It had white, red, and blue colors that caused him to notice its presence. It didn't move and then it suddenly disappeared. It then appeared northwest of the original location. A second light appeared at the original spot. He tried to get a movie camera picture but could not. The UFO appeared spherical in shape and stayed in one place, but appeared to move in circles. Six persons in my family saw the UFO. The witnesses gave their phone number: 505-356-2894 and address at 2140 Pojoaque Court Portales, NM 88130. Portales- red_chow@hotmail.com Thanks to John Thompson and ISUR. UNITED KINGDOM A UFO news story has created an uproar in the UK. Last week, we ran a story that the US had developed an experimental aircraft that could travel at Mach 50 allowing it to circle the planet in less than an hour. The British government has officially denied the following story that appeared in the Daily Express and Daily Mail Newspapers on 27 April 1998. The story written by science correspondent David Derbyshire claims that a 24,000 mph UFO BUZZED BRITAIN. The RAF has tracked a UFO 'as big as a battleship' off the coast of Britain, military sources revealed yesterday. They said the massive craft was tracked flying in a zigzag pattern at 17,000 mph over the North Sea. It then accelerated to 24,000 mph and zoomed off towards the Atlantic. The Dutch Air Force also tracked the UFO, but two F-16 fighters scrambled to intercept the objects, but were unable to keep up, it is claimed. RAF officials are said to be baffled by the object, spotted by the Ministry of Defense long-range listening station on Fylindales moor in North Yorkshire. 'It was definitely under control, judging by the various maneuvers executed,' said a source. 'It appeared to be triangular and was around the size of a battleship (about 900 ft long).' Radar records of the craft are due to be presented to science and military experts around the world, who will examine how to exploit space for military purposes at a conference at RAF College, Cranwell, Lincolnshire, in June. Other tapes of the UFO - thought to have been made during the last two years -- are being withheld because they give too much information about the radar base's scanning ability. However, military chiefs may release a second series of tapes, reported to show 12 UFOs changing shape in mid-flight. While the 'battleship' UFO is most likely to be an experimental aircraft or a sighting caused by a freak weather effect. UFO watchers believe it is further evidence that the Earth is being visited by alien craft. The latest theory gaining popularity among some dedicated UFO watcher is that the military deliberately release stories about UFO's as a 'smokescreen'- and that witnesses are rally seeing top-secret experimental aircraft. The base at RAF Fylingdales has been watching the skies since the end of the Cold War. A large pyramid-shaped, 360-degree radar has now replaced the gigantic landmark 'golf balls' tracking system. The base has concentrates on tracking satellites and pieces of space junk circling the Earth. Tim Mathews checked the story out for our readers. He writes, "Hi there George. I spoke to the Daily Mail journalist at 10:30 AM the day the story 'broke' in his paper. He seemed to have little idea about UFOs and/or secret military aircraft but no matter. Having spoken to several real radar experts I am told that under no circumstances could even the most sophisticated radar systems pinpoint the shape of an aircraft/air vehicle/'aerial phenomena -- especially not at the speeds mentioned, 24,000mph. In any case this speed is a little unlikely and what would be the point of scrambling a jet aircraft to intercept? It'd be over your house before the damn thing took off!! My understanding of the situation is that the story was a fake, based entirely upon the disinformation of ex-MOD employee (Philip Burden) with a grudge against his former employer which led him to put out this nonsense -- and similar fantasy in the past. The Daily Mail has run several rather over-the- top alien stories recently to the extent that one particularly respected researcher that I know, who had written a number of objective and factually based stories for the paper in the past, felt unable to do any further work. Well, you know what they say about the Daily Mail, it is the establishment newspaper. The only fact in the story was a forthcoming military get together/conference that cost =A3200 for a ticket. The researchers interviewed were either deliberately misquoted, are given to making wild claims, or were lying. I wonder why these newspapers are so desperate for us to believe in aliens, and in such an uncritical and subjective fashion? A joint UK-US team has been testing secret military craft both over the Irish and North Seas for several years. Sightings of dart-shaped and/or triangular aircraft (possibly based upon Terrence Nonweilers' ground-breaking waverider theories) go back to the late 1960s. Well, either they want us to believe in aliens in order to hide their mind control, cloning and secret technology developments, or to sell papers. Thanks to Tim Matthews, Lancashire UFO Society AUSTRALIA On May 2, 1998, at 5:40 PM a silver gray disc was observed hovering 100 meters overhead a family. It was near dusk on Saturday, when a family visiting the remote Tarra-Bluga National Park in Victoria sighted and heard a silver gray disc. The UFO hovered 100 meters overhead for about four minutes before taking off. The UFO had a large dome on top and three oval-shaped bulbuls or ball like protrusions underneath. The craft was about the size of 3 or 4 cars. The object emitted a low frequency buzz or hum that could only be heard while directly underneath. The investigation continues. Thanks to Ross Dowe Australian UFO Hotline ippoz@eisa.net.au On October 11, 1997, several million Australians observed extremely bright fluorescent lime green illumination across the skies. These illuminations have been observed in other parts of the world such as Mexico and the United States. Ross Dowe National UFO Hotline in Melbourne received well over 1000 telephone calls from Australian residents of the eastern states of New South Wales and Queensland. The sun was setting in the sky at 18:12 to 18:14 hours when the lime green illumination crossed from SW to NE in 8 to 10 seconds. The light was said to be an "enormous light" like a semitrailer in the skies, and it flew with a very long illuminated green tail. As this light descended it got much larger. As the illumination dipped down some 25 degrees below it's initial high altitude it appeared to break into two main lights. Some observers saw nine lights in a trail. The initial single light exploded into a huge fireworks display as it approached ground level with literally thousands of lights exploding out in all directions before cascading downwards in an umbrella shape. Some exploded pieces reportedly spiraled downwards leaving dark brown smoke trails. A crop-duster pilot operating near Warwick in southern Queensland spent 10 valuable last light minutes searching for glowing objects on the ground -- after seeing many GLOWING PLASMA balls fly past his wing and over a nearby hill and apparently rain down to ground level around him. He could find no evidence that anything had hit the ground and/or survived the fall, but the explosion was apparently near Warwick. The "objects" flight and its low altitude explosion left a huge sound trail that reverberated around in the clouds and sky for some five minutes as an intense shuddering noise. Cracks and booms with rolling thunder were heard from as far south as Sydney. Editor's Note: It appears these large plasma displays are becoming more common in our skies. A scientist who has contacted me, believes these displays may be the result of electrical plasma forming around chemical particles or pollution in the highest reaches of our atmosphere. During my numerous flights across the oceans, I noted the tremendous energy surrounding Aurora Borealis in the upper atmosphere. It is possible our immense electrical output and our polluted skies are causing this energy to form around these particles. Another possibility is that high performance craft entering our atmosphere is causing these plasmas to form. SRI LANKA May 3rd, Sunday Times article by Chris Kamalendran reports: "Bandarawela, Diyatalawa and surrounding areas are all agog and sky-gazing, partly in fear and partly in fascination, after several people reported seeing a glittering unidentified flying object (UFO) coming in, landing and going off during the past few days. According to the principal of Adikaram Primary School in Bandarawela, several school boys and teachers had told him they had seen the UFO. Grade Five student Harsha Ellawellagedera said he had seen the object around 6:30 a.m., on Thursday while several others reported they had seen it at different times. If school boys might be prone to some imagination, then the District Medical Officer of Diyatalawa, Kamani Pushpakumara, would contradict the skeptics. She said she had seen a UFO flying over her garden a few days ago. Frightened by it, she ran into the house and told her husband to close the door. A driver in the area is also reported he had seen a UFO. Investigations are continuing with space science students likely to join hundreds of long-weekend holiday makers in the resort towns to discover more about the extraordinary scenes in the sky. Thanks to Asoka Liyanage at asoka@dns.paci.gov.kw, and Suntimes http://www.lacnet.org/suntimes/980503/frontm.html#LABEL1. ANGLICAN BISHOPS BELIEVE IN ALIEN LIFE Based on story by Maurice Chittendon of the Sunday Times. A recent survey of 42 Anglican (Church of England) bishops revealed that 40 of them, or 95%, believes in the possibility of alien life on other worlds. Thirty-one, or 74%, said some of that alien life might be intelligent. These beliefs are seen as a departure from traditional church dogma which holds that man is unique in the cosmos and created in the image of God. According to Henry Richmond, Bishop of Repton, "Alien life forms could exist. I'd like to think that ETs were human-like but we might have to adjust our ideas and recognize that even little green men are another form of intelligent life that we oughtn't to feel threatened by ."Michael Turnbull, Bishop of Durham, said the discovery of other life could be a positive force. "God created all life. If it were possible to engage with life on other planets it would open our lives to the greater wonders of God's creation." Most of those surveyed agree that the discovery of alien life would require a reappraisal of traditional doctrine. On the question of whether God might personally visit other worlds, Mark Green, Assistant Bishop of Chichester, said, "I would not be shocked if he had. If he has children on different planets he would visit them, the way a father would visit his children in different parts of the country." According to Lindsay Urwin, Bishop of Horsham, "Religion has never just simply looked at the Earth to learn about [God]. The Bible says the heavens declare the glory of God and I would say that whatever is up there declares the glory of God." Frank Weston, Bishop of Knaresborough, agreed. "I am happy with an expanding universe and I am happy with universes beyond this one. God is an almighty creator and you can't limit his creativity. There must be life in other ways. I am rather excited about it." Thanks to Neil Cunningham and Tony Craddock CSETI Web Administrator webmaster@cseti.org FIRST DESCRIPTION OF UFO IS USUALLY THE BEST When investigating a UFO report, I suggest that you tape or carefully write down the description provided by the witness. The witnesses first description of the event is likely to be the best because everything else repeated will, by human fallibility, tend to be corrupted. Each telling tends to bring in minute exaggerations that geometrically enlarge with each repeat. Very similar to the children's game of "telephone" or software that loses minute fragments of files each time it is stored and transferred. The first over-all description of an object will be based upon their life experience, educational attainments and personal experience of the witness in relating the familiar with what they actually saw or experienced. When the story is repeated the witness will tend to make changes. This is normally not an attempt to lie. They are essentially changing their internal view to understand something that is beyond their comprehension. With the opportunity to analyze and refocus they may turn a light into a craft, in order to make it easier for them to discuss. They are attempting to over come their fear or confusion about an uncomfortable experience. So they make the description into something they can manage and control. It is self preservation or positioning. They may try to read the reactions of the investigator to obtain tips on what is expected. Therefore, it is best to be very noncommittal. The investigator can transfer his belief systems to the witness. This is commonly called transference and is a common psychological propensity of all human beings. The researcher if on the scene, will unconsciously begin to add or remove from the actuality of the event and witness statement by their own belief systems, etc. This is usually done unconsciously, but has immediate consequence. Later, when many days, weeks, months or years pass and researchers review or analyze the aspects of the case, the tendency to argue semantics of facts rather than the scenario itself becomes a lesson in futility. To avoid this the experienced and knowledgeable researcher will maintain that the first description, relating of events, etc., are the "closest" truth. Children are often good witnesses if you do not lead them with your own belief system. When you begin to question and dig deeper for more complex facts, the child will subtly begin to tell the you what you want to hear. Consequently, the most knowledgeable investigator will take the first description as the true fact in total and analyze based upon that description of the object or event. When a witness is giving his story, just listen until they've finished. Then you are probably closest to the real truth. Thanks to La Fem Nikita. MID-ATLANTIC UFO SYMPOSIUM The 1998 MUFON Mid-Atlantic UFO Symposium is taking place this Saturday, May 9th, from 9:00 AM to 9:00 PM in Bethesda, Maryland. Scheduled speakers include Robert Swaitek - UFO/Abduction Researcher, Robert Hall - Sociologist and commentator on the UFO Abduction phenomena, Peter Resta - Abduction phenomenon researcher, Dr. Charles Emmons - of Gettysburg College, Linda Moulton Howe - noted UFO and cattle mutilation researcher, Dr. David Jacobs - of Temple University, author of "The Threat". Bruce Maccabee - co-author of "UFOs are Real, Here's the Proof," and myself. The event will be held at the Bethesda Ramanda Inn, 8400 Wisconsin Avenue, Bethesda, Maryland (1.5 miles south of Interstate 495 [exit 34 - Wisconsin Avenue). I hope to see you there. Please send comments and letters to George Filer at Majorstar@aol.com.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 7 Re: Scientists at Odds with Jeffrey From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 10:16:47 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 10:45:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientists at Odds with Jeffrey > Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 08:25:08 -0400 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Scientists at Odds with Jeffrey <JSE article snipped> > It was not a surprise to those of us who had scoped Jeffrey out > as a "mole" for some time. Doesn't the timing of Jeffrey's > "conversion" strike you as just a bit to convenient? > He derailed the Roswell Declaration just at the most vulnerable > and crucial time, and insured that it would not be taken > seriously or lead to any release of information. The man is a > traitor. <snip> > All well and good, but too little too late. Jeffrey has done his > damage and crawled back under his rock. What can we accomplish > now? The issue is dead. I agree that Jeffrey's timing was bad (or good depending on your perspective). However, I don't subscribe to the theory that the black gov't got to him directly. I think it was more likely that his employer forced him to bring his participation in the UFO controversy to a close. After all, pilots have been grounded for reporting a UFO sighting. Delta couldn't have one of their pilots continuing in the role of conspiracy advocate. Now, the gov't might have gotten to Jeffrey indirectly. I suspect they play more than a small part in the airlines' policy and treatment of pilots who report foo fighters. What can we do to repair the damage? Exactly what this JSE article does: show the flaws in Jeffrey's "logic". Or, in the words of one fictional general: "Spread the word. Let's tell 'em how to take these bastards down." BTW, Bob, how was your Paris trip? <g> Terry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 7 Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:15:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 11:57:57 -0400 Subject: Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved > From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:22:16 +0200 > Subject: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved > >From "alt.ufo.reports". > Subject: SO CAL SKYQUAKE UPDATE!! > This is to make sure that everyone is aware that this "SKYQUAKE" > has turned out to be sonic booms from the space shuttle landing > at Vandenburg. Apparently its flight path went right over the > cities that were calling in to me at the 911 Center... > Sorry for the alarm, however, if you were sitting in my chair at > the 911 Center when the phones went nuts. And the descriptions of > the sounds and events were strange, so that's why I sounded the > alarm. Frankly, I find this the opposite of disappointing. Look at what happened. Witnesses reported to authorities an unusual occurrence. Without knowing the cause, they reported it accurately enough to confirm the solution. This is the sort of thing we rely on with regard to UFO cases, and it is confirmed again and again: Except for the moderate percentage of hoaxes, honest observers give us enough information to typically identify 70-95% of reported sightings as identifiable occurrences. When we have the same class of observers giving us reports we cannot identify, even though some small percentage are probably hoaxes or identifiables where there is just not enough information (from the witness or in the world) to ID the sighting cause, we must pay attention to the the unidentifieds as indeed something to be taken seriously. Imagine a debunker's opinion on the above event. When it is an unknown skyquake, they will deride the witness' competence. When it becomes an identified event, they will say "See, nothing odd," but will ignore the indications that the witnesses were indeed competent. Sad, really. ------ Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman - Original digital art, writing, and UFO research - Author of SF novels available at... http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront/ ------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 7 Vanderbilt Scientist, Veteran Newsman To Testify From: RSchatte <RSchatte@aol.com> [Rebecca] Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:57:32 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 14:10:55 -0400 Subject: Vanderbilt Scientist, Veteran Newsman To Testify From: AOL News <AOLNews@aol.com> Return-path: <AOLNews@aol.com> Subject: Vanderbilt Scientist, Veteran Newsman To Testify Before... Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:32:56 EDT Vanderbilt Scientist, Veteran Newsman To Testify Before House Committee On Science NASHVILLE, Tenn., May 7 /PRNewswire/ -- Former NASA scientist Rick Chappell and veteran newsman Jim Hartz will testify before a congressional committee May 14 about the gap in understanding between America's scientific community and the news media. The hearing before the House Committee on Science is scheduled for 10 a.m. in Room 2318 in the Rayburn House Office Building. As visiting scholars of The Freedom Forum First Amendment Center at Vanderbilt University, Chappell and Hartz conducted a yearlong study of the media's portrayal of news related to science and technology. Their report, "Worlds Apart -- How the Distance Between Science and Journalism Threatens America's Future," concluded that few scientists have confidence in the media's ability to report science accurately, while most journalists see serious shortcomings in the scientists' ability to describe their work in plain English. The result is that the electorate is ill-prepared to make informed judgments about major issues related to science, health and technology. Chappell, a space physicist and former chief scientist for NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Ala., recently joined Vanderbilt University as an adjunct professor of physics and director of science and research communications. Hartz has frequently chronicled science matters for NBC News and PBS. This hearing is part of a comprehensive effort led by House Science Committee Vice Chairman Vernon Ehlers, to develop a new, long-range science and technology policy for the United States. SOURCE Vanderbilt University CO: Vanderbilt University ST: Tennessee, District of Columbia IN: EDU SU: 05/07/98 12:28 EDT http://www.prnewswire.com To edit your profile, go to keyword <A HREF="aol://1722:NewsProfiles"> NewsProfiles</A>.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 7 'North Sea UFO' From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl> Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 19:57:31 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 15:15:34 -0400 Subject: 'North Sea UFO' Hi People, I thought I should inform you about the inquiries the A.U.R.A. has done concerning the 27/4/98-press release. We have checked our source within the Dutch Air Force, and we can be rather sure by now no F-16 were send to intercept nor ever took off. We also double-checked with the dutch military defence-radar in Nieuw- Millingen. They also assured us nothin' was visual on radar. From the civil Air Traffic Control at Amsterdam airport we learned nothing odd or irregular was seen on their radars the last couple of months. Since one of my family-members is training-director at the Eurocontrol educational centre was the one to pop the question, we're rather sure the ATC would've told him. And they would've seen it too, that's one thing we can be sure off. So our conclusion is that there was no "north sea UFO", at lost not as described in the British press. Especially since the dutch air force is not as tight-lipped as their American or British collegues it seems to me that they were teling the truth. Ofcourse there will always some people that will argue: "ofcourse they wouldn't tell you" But I guess the A.U.R.A. cannot seem to please those :) Greetings from Holland, Andy Denne A.U.R.A.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 7 Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 18:35:49 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 18:35:49 -0400 Subject: Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved Lemme see.... early this morning Stig forwards Ryan H. Turner's news.group post: >>Date: 7 May 1998 03:14:05 -0000 >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: Stig Agermose <interstate@supernews.com> >>Subject: Alert! Skyquakes In Southern California >>Subject: SKYQUAKES IN SO CAL--ALERT!!! >>From: ryfyrman91@aol.com (RYFYRMAN91) >>Date: 1998/05/06 >>Newsgroups: alt.ufo.reports >>ALERT ALERT ALERT!! >>This is NOT a joke, or hoax, or rantings of a nutcase! I am a >>Communications Dispatcher for 911 for a major fire department in >>Southern California. At approximately 2200hrs, PST, on May 5, >>1998, the 911 and business lines begin to light up with calls. >>Several police agencies in Orange County and South Eastern Los >>Angeles County reported the same thing, that they were being >>deluged with calls reference something strange going on. The 'strangeness' happened _Tuesday_ night at around 10pm California time. Then this afternoon came the following glibness: > From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:22:16 +0200 > Subject: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved > >From "alt.ufo.reports". > Subject: SO CAL SKYQUAKE UPDATE!! > This is to make sure that everyone is aware that this "SKYQUAKE" > has turned out to be sonic booms from the space shuttle landing > at Vandenburg. Apparently its flight path went right over the > cities that were calling in to me at the 911 Center... > Sorry for the alarm, however, if you were sitting in my chair at > the 911 Center when the phones went nuts. And the descriptions of > the sounds and events were strange, so that's why I sounded the > alarm. Shuttle Sonic Booms? Really!? Lessee what NASA's logs say: From: The NASA Shuttle Web http://shuttle.nasa.gov/sts-90/ Flight Day 17 Perfect Landing Columbia, piloted by Commander Rick Searfoss and Pilot Scott Altman, made a picture-perfect landing at KSC at 11:09 a.m. Sunday. It was the 14th consecutive landing for shuttles at the Kennedy Space Center and the 21st in the last 22 missions. Unofficial landing times are as follows: Maingear Touchdown: MET - 15 days, 21 hours, 14 minutes, 59 seconds CDT - May 3, 1998, 11:08:59 a.m. GMT - May 3, 1998, 16:08:59 Nosegear Touchdown: MET - 15 days, 21 hours, 15 minutes, 13 seconds CDT - May 3, 1998, 11:09:13 a.m. GMT - May 3, 1998, 16:09:13 Wheelstop: MET - 15 days, 21 hours, 15 minutes, 58 seconds CDT - May 3, 1998, 11:09:58 a.m. GMT - May 3, 1998, 16:09:58 Kennedy Space Centre? That's over in Florida is it not? On _Sunday_ morning, in Florida at 11:09:58 a.m.? Um..... is _anyone_ (other than Duane Schulke) thinking
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 7 Re: New Russian UFO Crash is Not 'New' From: CNINews1 <CNINews1@aol.com> [Michael Lindemann] Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:18:32 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 19:04:13 -0400 Subject: Re: New Russian UFO Crash is Not 'New' >Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 08:05:05 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: New Russian UFO Crash is Not 'New' >>From: "Greg Jarikov" <greg@pop3.rcom.ru> >>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: New Russian UFO Crash is Not 'New' >>Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:28:09 +0400 >>>From greg@pop3.rcom.ru Wed May 6 08:34:33 1998 >>X-Authentication-Warning: rcom.spb.su: Host dyn242.rcom.spb.su >>[194.220.8.242] claimed to be greg.rcom.spb.su >>>Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:08:37 -0400 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: New Russian UFO Crash is Not 'New' >>>What are we talking about here, a Russian UFO crash or a Chinese >>>UFO crash?????? >>>Sounds Chinese to me. >>Dear Bob, >>This is an Kirghizian UFO crash. But, if you know, there is a >>Russian army now in Kirghizia. >>And especially, of course - in 1991. >>>Last week in Italy I ran into the woman who is translating Erich >>>von Daniken's newest book into English. The title of the book is >>>"The Chinese Roswell", and it sounds to me like this may be the >>>incident he has written about. I don't know what incident von Daniken has written about, but the 1991 incident under discussion here reportedly occurred in the Tian Shan region of southeast Kazakhstan. This is right near the Chinese border as well as the border of Kirgizstan. It is not actually "Russia" though it is within the former Soviet Union -- and not in China-- at least if the Russian sources have correctly described the location. Michael Lindemann
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 7 Kathy Kasten On #Visitations From: Angela Shilling <ashill@skipnet.com> Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 00:09:32 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 18:45:20 -0400 Subject: Kathy Kasten On #Visitations Kathy Kasten will be a guest speaker on #Visitations. When: Saturday, May 9th 7pm Pacific / 9pm Central / 3am GMT Where: #Visitations on the Undernet How To Get to IRC: http://www.airnet.net/ptcole/visitations/meets/irc.htm =========================================== Statement From Kathy Kasten: Mike Coyle said this about my article, listed below and originally published by MindNet Journal: Please allow me to direct your attention to the following author's observation with which I concur: "...the policy decisions they made forever changed how the U.S. Government interacted with its citizens - i.e., the policy of treating them in a hostile/subservient manner." This statement describes the essence of a totalitarian state in which the rights of its citizens are bestowed or revoked at the whim and pleasure of the state. So I ask you, my fellow citizens, how does it feel to live beneath the heel of murderous thugs and criminals who treat you like cattle and experiment on your children? ================================================================ The following titled paper is available through Ed Light's Mind Control Forum under MindNet Journal: dated 02/29/96: Position Paper #2: How I Decided to Become a Loud-Mouthed Woman By Kathy Kasten ---------------------------------------------------------------- The results of my research shows no evidence of "aliens", nor "abduction by aliens"; that the truth of the matter is more sinister and more plausible; that whatever happened in the summer of 1947 in New Mexico caused a rip in humanity's psyche - i.e., a policy was set in motion by various U.S. Government agencies in concert with each other from which there would be no turning back. That is, that the U.S. Government of the people, for the people, and by the people turned against its own citizens by utilizing them unwittingly in covert research projects, without regard for the consequences of the procedures, and that this policy continues to this day. Because of the discovery of what I call the covert research projects/mind control experiments, I was part of an effort calling for an investigation to be started into these covert research projects by the National Inst. of Health. The results of which were a surprise visit by Dr. Gary Ellis, NIH/OPRR, to the campus of UCLA - just to make sure the kinds of covert research that was taking place during the MKUltra years was no longer taking place, and to put into place regulations which would prevent such an event. After 20 years of experiencing many highly strange events which could not be explained away as merely bad dreams, lucid dreaming, or some type of neurosis, I decided to search for some answers to my own internal questions - i.e., address the reality of these highly strange events. I had been trained in empirical data collection in the field of archaeology. Another scientific field that seems like an immensely long detective story with clues surfacing over hundreds of years of time. Patience is a secondary requirement of that science just as it is for Ufology. In 1990, I began to think in terms of modeling a scenario which included the possible method for selection of target individuals and the possible technology utilized to implement various procedures which I theorized were being performed on a cross section of women like myself. I had not yet decided who was the controller of the highly strange events - "aliens" or humans. Together with academically written documentation, I read all the early UFO "abduction" investigators (Hopkins, Jacobs, and Fuller). In their books, I found no evidence of the types of experiences I was going through: for example, a period of gynecological treatments for non-existent abortions, the fact that I felt a round object in both my nasal passage and left wrist; a feral awareness that some of my behavior was being controlled by a source (under surveillance) outside of myself; the feeling that I had been under permanent house arrest over most of my life. The information provided by the "abduction researchers" was anecdotal without follow-up examinations for physical evidence. Or, if there was follow-up, it was not discussed publicly. Therefore, I was left to create my solutions outside the context of cases similar to mine own. I feel I have found most of the answers to questions I posed a couple of years ago. This what I hope to share with the audience tonight. At this time I work in the Department of Pathology, Section of Cytology, as staff support to three pathologists. In the past, I was staff liasion between UCLA's Human Subject Protection Committee and Principal Investigators. It was at this time I was required to memorize the federal regulations governing human subjects. I have written a couple of articles which have been published on-line; also published is material which came out of my field investigations in and around Roswell/Fort Stanton Mesa, New Mexico; an abduction testimony California UFO magazine; an interview with Jeff Rense of "Sightings", now archived under RadioAudio, 12/04/97; a TV appearance on "The Other Side" regarding my remote viewing of murder of my daughter by a Navy officer serial killer; and a mostly finished manuscript which describes the life of an abductee/targeted individual in a novel form (based 99% on real life experiences). KK ************************************************************ * Visitations Channel Mailing List * Email: visitations@skipnet.com * * To Unsubscribe: visitations@skipnet.com * Subject Area: unsubscribe * * http://www.skipnet.com/~visitations/ * * Angela Shilling, Visitations and this list service * are not responsible for authenticity of posts. ************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 7 Solar-Interplanetary Influences That Govern UFO From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 00:30:13 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 18:56:22 -0400 Subject: Solar-Interplanetary Influences That Govern UFO Found at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/1073/page30.html The main body of the report can be found at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/1073/page31.html and http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/1073/page32.html Stig ******* THE UFO SCHEDULER A PRELIMINARY REPORT ON THE SOLAR - INTERPLANETARY INFLUENCES THAT GOVERN UFO ACTIVITY Mark Buitron - (4-28-98) UFO BASES - THE UFO MONITOR http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/1073 * Copyright / Permissions * This Report may be quoted so long as reference is made to the Report title and name of author. You may not sell this report, but you may distribute this report at no charge amongst other end-users / readers. You MAY distribute this Report, provided you include the name of its author, with no modifications to the text or picture format. You may distribute this Report in any electronic format (BBS, Diskette, CD, etc) as long as you include this file (or Copyright/Permission) intact. The author can be contacted at: lavrentiberia@geocities.com ABSTRACT UFO activity does not follow random patterns but tends to follow cycles that are linked to the solar wind events and to the alignments of the four inner planets, with some connection to the orbits of Jupiter and Saturn. There is no evidence that sunspot or interplanetary magnetic field cycles cause an agitation of mankind or mass hysteria which then leads to an increase of UFO sightings. Nor does the data about planetary alignments indicate that valid UFO sightings are caused by the planets being mistaken for alien ships. Quite the contrary most UFO highs occur during periods of minimum solar activity, and many times the increase in reports about UFOs take place when FEWER planets (not more) are visible. The IMF (Interplanetary Magnetic Field) data can be used to predict which days are likely to contain little or no UFO activity. The prediction can be further refined by including data about the present interplanetary solar wind velocity and density. Since the interplanetary wind plasma environment is so highly linked to UFO activity here on Earth, we can infer that most glow-craft (UFO) activity originates from interplanetary travel. The fact that UFO activity rises sharply during periods when certain planets are in alignment or in specific configurations, allows us to state with a fair amount of certainty to which planets the UFO traffic is connected. The Moon is also linked to the UFO traffic here on Earth because of the light it adds to the night skies. When these facts are combined with the IMF data we also gain insight into the nature of the technology of the UFOs and perhaps the thought processes of the entities who pilot them. By using all the data described in the report we should be able to make a UFO Activity Index that would predict UFO behavior accurately approximately 70% to 90% of the time. INTRODUCTION Purpose Of Report My website has dealt mainly with the subject of UFO bunkers (bases). It has always aimed toward any technical aspects about the UFOs that might lead to the discovery of how they fly, who pilots them, and where their bunkers are located. This includes a systematic search into UFO routines, routes, bases, and periods of operation and how such data may correlate with other physical and natural factors. In keeping with this mission statement, I investigated several natural phenomena as sunspot cycles, magnetic storms, and planetary positions to see if these might in any way connect to UFO flaps. While I quickly determined that sunspot activity was connected to lows and highs of UFO activity, it took me another seven months to flesh out the natural phenomena and physical parameters that were acting as catalysts or inhibitors in relation to UFO activity and sighting levels. This paper is but a preliminary report concerning a subject that needs considerably more investigation. Further study and evaluation is necessary, and a great deal of refinement will no doubt take place. Most of the conclusions reached in this paper are based on data plots of the magnitude of the interplanetary magnetic field, the solar wind velocity, solar wind density, and the planetary positions of the four inner planets. Long range calculations for UFO activity also include the sunspot cycle and solar activity cycle. The phase and appearance of the Moon and how this impacts UFO activity is also considered. However, the Moon does not affect interplanetary travel, but affects UFO activity from the standpoint of lighting (UFOs tend to prefer darkness for reasons we will discuss later). Nevertheless, other parameters and forms of energy partition such as protons, electron fluence, or the X-Ray Flux values of the interplanetary region may also provide further refinement of UFO activity calculations. As yet I have not found any connections, but I have not spent much time investigating these areas. What I discovered in my search forced me to both reevaluate and significantly alter my own views and theories surrounding the ET / UFO enigma. As some readers may know, I began my search with the belief that most UFO activity originated from hidden bases here on earth. But after completing my studies it became plain to me that whoever the entities are in control of the glow-craft; the main ship-activity is coming from sources connected to distant locations in our solar system at the very least. Sources For Interplanetary Data The data used in this report was gathered from several sources on the Internet. The B(nT) interplanetary magnetic magnitude data was taken from plots generated at http://lepmfi.gsfc.nasa.gov/mfi/plots.html [The WIND MFI Daily Key Parameter Interface], using the GSE (Geocentric Solar Ecliptic) coordinate system. This website belongs to the solar wind monitoring NASA spacecraft WIND. Plots from the GSM (Geocentric Solar Magnetospheric) system were consulted from time to time, but in the main the GSE plots were used. The homepage for this site is at http://lepmfi.gsfc.nasa.gov/mfi/windmfi.html and provides as good a place as any to begin your investigations in this area. The solar wind velocity and density data was gathered from readings that are continuously taken by the SoHO spacecraft and posted at http://dxlc.com/solar [Solar Terrestial Activity Report]; this site is maintained by Jan Alvestad. This is also where I found most of the data and charts dealing with geomagnetic data (Planetary A Index), the sunspot number, and solar flux. It is also a great site for a solar/geomagnetic weather forecast. For plotting planetary positions I used the rather handy program called Homeplanet, version 3, which is freeware downloaded from a site maintained by John Walker (he has many other neat things there too) http://www.fourmilab.ch/homeplanet/homeplanet.html Other websites that offer much information along these lines can be found on the Internet, but a good place to begin your search is at the NOAA site at http://sec.noaa.gov/ace/ACErtsw_home.html The new ACE spacecraft is providing all kinds of interplanetary data and pages accessed from the above site and has �up to date� plots of different aspects of the heliosphere and magnetosphere. Note WARNING: it is not my place or intent to describe in depth about the space environment and planetary system. If you would like to learn more about this subject, try the SEC Primer on the Solar Space Environment accessed at http://www.sec.noaa. gov/primer/primer.html or try the Space Physics Text Book of Oulu at http://www.oulu.fi/~spaceweb/textbook/Welcome.html Sources for UFO sighting data The UFO sighting cycles used in this report were gathered from several websites that offer sighting information freely. Since the WIND spacecraft supplied the information that first grabbed my attention, I was most interested in the years 1995 through 1997. As it turned out The National UFO Reporting Center at http://www.nwlink.com/~ufocntr has posted data for 1995 and parts of 1996 on their website. I also used reporting data from the New Mexico site located at http://www.artesia.net/~jstyck/cindex.shtml Attention: None of the above people or groups has in any way linked their personal authority or names to the cause of my own UFO research. This page hosted by Geocities! Get your own Free Home Page
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 8 Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved From: CNINews1 <CNINews1@aol.com> [Michael Lindemann] Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:19:28 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 07:52:41 -0400 Subject: Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved >Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 18:35:49 -0400 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved >Lemme see.... early this morning Stig forwards >Ryan H. Turner's news.group post: <snip> Errol, Right you are. First, I don't believe the Space Shuttle EVER lands at Vandenburg... >>This is to make sure that everyone is aware that this >>"SKYQUAKE" has turned out to be sonic booms from the space >>shuttle landing at Vandenburg. ... it lands at Edward AFB in the Mojave if not at Kennedy. Second, since it did land at Kennedy as noted by NASA, and about 10 hours after the reported sonic booms, there is in point of fact NO WAY the shuttle caused those booms. Michael Lindemann
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 8 Max Burns' Sheffield Incident Report From: Angela Shilling <ashill@skipnet.com> Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 17:54:46 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 07:41:30 -0400 Subject: Max Burns' Sheffield Incident Report Maxwell Burns' The Sheffield Incident Report can be found on the Visitations Website. This report is posted with Max Burns' permission. http://www.skipnet.com/~visitations/sheffield/ Angela Shilling email: angela@skipnet.com Web Page: http://www.skipnet.com/~visitations #Visitations on the UnderNet, Channel Manager
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 8 Re: New Russian UFO Crash is Not 'New' From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 03:19:32 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 07:45:05 -0400 Subject: Re: New Russian UFO Crash is Not 'New' >From: CNINews1 <CNINews1@aol.com> [Michael Lindemann] >Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:18:32 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Chinese Roswell = Russian UFO Crash? <snipped> >>>>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >>>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: New Russian UFO Crash is Not 'New' >>>>What are we talking about here, a Russian UFO crash or a Chinese >>>>UFO crash?????? >>>>Sounds Chinese to me. >>>Dear Bob, >>>This is an Kirghizian UFO crash. But, if you know, there is a >>>Russian army now in Kirghizia. >>>And especially, of course - in 1991. >>>>Last week in Italy I ran into the woman who is translating Erich >>>>von Daniken's newest book into English. The title of the book is >>>>"The Chinese Roswell", and it sounds to me like this may be the >>>>incident he has written about. >I don't know what incident von Daniken has written about, but the >1991 incident under discussion here reportedly occurred in the >Tian Shan region of southeast Kazakhstan. This is right near the >Chinese border as well as the border of Kirgizstan. It is not >actually "Russia" though it is within the former Soviet Union -- >and not in China-- at least if the Russian sources have correctly >described the location. >Michael Lindemann <snipped)> Update from Greg Jarikov posted on Sightings On Radio's site. URL: http://www.sightings.com/ufo/russianros.htm Stig ******* <snipped> Latest information. Philippe van Putten sent us this email he received from Greg Jarikov in Russia From: Greg Jarikov <greg@pop3.rcom.ru> To: Philippe Piet van Putten <abp1@uol.com.br> Date: Wednesday, May 6, 1998 09:00 AM Subject: Re: Russian UFO Crash Dear Phillipe, PvP Hi Greg !! Nice to hear from you ! :o) GJ Sorry for my poor English... PvP Oh...I have the same problem ! Don't worry ! I think we are able to understand each other. Do you know the precise date and time of the crash ? GJ Between August & September, 1991. 29 or 30 August may be. (?) We will know this soon. PvP OK ! "Tien-Shan (Sh.Mazar)" ?! Do you already have the geographical coordinates for the location (latitude and longitude) ? GJ Coordinates - between 42o10'-42o12' of northern latitude, and between 79o40'-79o42' of east longitude. Kirghizia, to the east of lake Isyk-Kul, 100 kms exact on east from Przhevalsk town, opposite to "peak of a Victory" ("Pik Pobedy" - on Russian). Coordinates are geological, without the amendment on magnetic declination and rapproachement of meridians. PvP Thanks Greg. So, it has nothing to do with the chinese Tien-Shan, right? The object is quite small (6.20 x 1.20 m), right? GJ NO !! 620x120 m ! Six hundred twenty by one hundred twenty meters! PvP Oh! This is incredible !! Did it explode or something before the crash?! GJ There is an emission of ground (crater) made by explosion, in a very place where the spaceship is damaged. The explosion has taken place AFTER the crash. PvP Are there civilian witnesses? GJ Yes. But nobody saw a moment of crash - neither military nor civil. Just later. Emil Bachurin saw this spaceship about 3 weeks ago. He is a very serious researcher and witness. Nobody in Russia can say, that he made up a rumour or such big mistake one time before. PvP OK. Besides Emil, could you forward the names (emails, if possible,) of any other civilian or military researcher involved in the field investigation? GJ And there are radar marks made by local Radio-Lacation Station. Now, if we can make a space photoshot of this location !... PvP I understood that the military failed to photograph and film the object in proximity, but haven't they tried to obtain long distance images, with telephoto lens or something ? Have you heard of occupants (no response to these questions available) Regards, Greg Jarikov <snipped>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 8 Re: British Farmers Asked To Help In Mutilation From: "Leanne Martin" <leanne_martin@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 00:05:54 PDT Fwd Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 08:16:23 -0400 Subject: Re: British Farmers Asked To Help In Mutilation >Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 09:28:29 -0400 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: British Farmers Asked To Help In Mutilation > Research >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 04:55:30 +0200 >Subject: British Farmers Asked To Help In Mutilation Research >>From Phenomena Online's news section. URL: >http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~fair/Phenomena/mutilapr98.htm >Stig >******* >Exclusive! >Farmers Asked To Help In Mutilation Research >On the face of it, the advert in the current edition of Farmers >Weekly (April 17-23 1998) seems straight forward. "An Appeal for >Assistance to all Farmers, Veterinary Surgeons and Animal Welfare >Officers. Any discovered fresh animal carcasses with specific >unusual injuries sought by Manchester-based Professor of >Pathology for research purposes." But Phenomena On-Line can >exclusively reveal that this advert has been placed by the UFO >research group Quest International who are currently researching >animal mutilations across Britain. <snip> >Fisheries and Food (MAFF). In the meantime if you have any >information that you feel may be of benefit to David's research >he can be contacted via Phenomena On-Line (link). Ladies and Gentlefolk, I was curious as to whether the distribution of these mutilations has any corelation with the presence in an area/state/country of a U.S. military base. Reasoning: It could be that these bases are being used as data collection sources for radiation and/or chemical pollution programs. These bases usually have well equiped surgical facilities (including morgues). These bases have a wide distribution around the world. There are all levels of security personnel to police varying levels of requirements. The U.S. government and military, to achieve their self interested goals, is not averse to getting into bed with U.S. chemical (& other) companies and may be doing their dirty work in relation to low-profile and very secure environmental testing & monitoring. Any highly secret chemical pollutants may as yet be undetectable via publicly accessible means, i.e. digitally controlled spectral analysers may have been encoded to be "blind" to them. (I don't believe this to be the case but who knows - merely theorizing.) There is talk of workers from at least one highly secure base (that doesn't officialy exist) trying to fight for recognition of their chemically induced injuries and illnesses (Groom Lake I think). Has anyone looked into the possibility of such a corelation yet? I would appreciate your thoughts on this . . . Regards, Ms Leanne Martin Computer Engineer @ WANG GLOBAL Australia
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 8 NM DA Suspects Cattle Mutilation From: Stig Agermose <interstate@supernews.com> Date: 8 May 1998 05:23:55 -0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 08:12:27 -0400 Subject: NM DA Suspects Cattle Mutilation DEATH OF COW INVESTIGATED 05/05/98 03:13PM 1441 characters 27 lines ** The Associated Press (c). All rights reserved. ** RED RIVER, N.M. (AP) _ A cow found dead in a mountain pasture was missing an eye and its tongue and had suffered massive hemorrhaging, investigators say. District Attorney John Paternoster of Taos said investigators are looking into the death of the 4-year-old animal as a cattle mutilation _ one of a number of unexplained animal deaths reported in northern New Mexico in the past 25 years. The animal, which had been dead about a day when it was discovered Sunday, was found in a remote pasture about 10 miles southeast of here in the Moreno Valley. Paternoster said there were no signs of predators, scavengers or a struggle. Samples of the cow's tissue, blood and organs will be analyzed at an Albuquerque laboratory, he said. "No apparent cause of death was immediately visible," Paternoster said. "I'm not certain what I'm looking at (but) we have since the beginning been taking these deaths seriously.'' A team of law enforcement officers went to the pasture, along with Gabe Valdez, an agent with the National Institute for Discovery Science _ a privately funded Las Vegas, Nev.-based organization that investigates suspected paranormal phenomena. Paternoster said he believes it's the first reported suspected cattle mutilation here this year. Debate has gone on for years about the cause of the deaths, with speculation ranging from aliens or satanists to secret government experiments. _AP-WS-05-05-98 1613EDT --- Free and Private email from Supernews(TM) <http://www.supernews.com>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 8 The Paradigm Clock From: ParadigmRG <ParadigmRG@aol.com> [Stephen Bassett] Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 05:28:47 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 08:19:34 -0400 Subject: The Paradigm Clock Paradigm Research Group *** FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE *** May 8, 1998 -- Washington, DC -- �The Paradigm Clock� - official website of the Paradigm Research Group - was published to the world wide web at midnight, April 30, 1998. The URL is: http://www.paradigmclock.com "The Paradigm Clock" is dedicated to supporting and acknowledging the work of researchers and activists in the field of extraterrestrial related phenomena. The concept is modeled after the "Doomsday Clock" first published in 1947 by the "Bulletin of Atomic Scientists". Midnight on the "Doomsday Clock" meant nuclear war had begun. Midnight on �The Paradigm Clock" means that formal disclosure by the governments of the world of the alien presence in our midst has taken place. The clock will move to and from midnight based upon future events. It is currently set at 3 minutes to midnight because it is the opinion of the Paradigm Research Group that formal disclosure is close at hand. Over the coming months this website will become the repository of commentaries by the finest minds in the country on the subjects of the ongoing process of disclosure and the issues to be faced in the post-paradigm world. Currently the centerpiece of the site is the largest reference bibliography in the world addressing the field of extraterrestrial related phenomena. Webmaster: Pulsar http://www.pulsarnet.com Host Server: Ozark Net http://www.oznet.com For information about �The Paradigm Clock� or Paradigm Research Group: Contact: Stephen Bassett Paradigm Research Group 301-564-1820 301-564-4566 fax 301-647-3684 pager ParadigmRG@aol.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 8 Information & UFOs From: "Andre Sibert" <sibert@mari-el.ru> Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 14:55:17 +0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 08:23:35 -0400 Subject: Information & UFOs Dear UFO-nuts and scientists searching for UFO-contacts and Civilizations from outer Space ! I've got a unigue awareness and other stuff about UFOs and alien Civilizations. That stuff includes pictures, sounds and elements of various kind. I you are interested in getting that info, I would be pretty glad to help you (Those materials aren"t published anywhere yet). With Regards Andre Sibert (Russia).
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 8 Re: British Farmers Asked To Help In Mutilation From: "Steven Kaeser" <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 10:17:52 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 20:18:38 -0400 Subject: Re: British Farmers Asked To Help In Mutilation >From: "Leanne Martin" <leanne_martin@hotmail.com> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: British Farmers Asked To Help In Mutilation Research >Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 00:05:54 PDT <snip> >Ladies and Gentlefolk, <snip> >There is talk of workers from at least one highly secure base >(that doesn't officialy exist) trying to fight for recognition of >their chemically induced injuries and illnesses (Groom Lake I >think). The case you refer to does not, as far as I'm aware, relate to chemical and/or biological weapon development. The Groom Lake workers were exposed to toxic fumes that allegedly were the result of open air burning of chemicals used in the stealth manufacturing process. I would have to go back and review the two year old information, but I recall that the chemicals were transported from California by tanker, and disposed of at the Groom Lake facility. By an Executive Order issued by President Clinton, the Groom Lake facility is exempted from EPA regulations that would have restricted the burning and disposal. The damage caused by this exposure did not resemble the "mutilation" scenario, and I would doubt there is any connection. >Has anyone looked into the possibility of such a corelation yet? The concept of some sort of correlation between "mutilations" and military vehicles (primarily unmarked helocopters) has been mentioned by Linda Moulton Howe in some of her works on the subject. However, I would suspect that a number of "mutilations" are simply identified as natural events and the animals are buried and forgotten. In other words, they are being identified as "mutiliations" after the media informs people as to the characteristics to look for. Up to that point, the deaths are viewed as unusual, but natural.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 8 Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 06:08:01 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 20:16:37 -0400 Subject: Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved > From: CNINews1 <CNINews1@aol.com> [Michael Lindemann] > Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:19:28 EDT > To: updates@globalserve.net, Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk > Subject: Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Not Solved > >Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 18:35:49 -0400 > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved > Errol, > Right you are. First, I don't believe the Space Shuttle EVER > lands at Vandenburg... > >>This is to make sure that everyone is aware that this > >>"SKYQUAKE" has turned out to be sonic booms from the space > >>shuttle landing at Vandenburg. > ... it lands at Edward AFB in the Mojave if not at Kennedy. > Second, since it did land at Kennedy as noted by NASA, and about > 10 hours after the reported sonic booms, there is in point of > fact NO WAY the shuttle caused those booms. And just to clarify a little more. The shuttles DO create a sonic boom, in fact it's a strange DOUBLE boom, but NOT 5 minutes apart. More like a 1/2-second apart. I remember the first time I heard this when I lived near the beach at Santa Monica, as the shuttle came in over Malibu (or thereabouts) on its way to Edwards AFB. My neighbor had to identify the sound for me. -- Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> ICQ Pager 6797092
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 8 Re: 'Skyquakes' In Southern California? From: Steve Martin <SMartin633@aol.com> Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 12:33:42 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 20:48:16 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Skyquakes' In Southern California? EBK - I live in Southern CA and was watching TV when subject event took place. I immediately thought it was an earthquake, but realized that the floor and bed were not shaking. I got up to get a drink of water and a second one occurred. The second one was signifcantly quieter, but still rattled the windows. I turned on the local news radio (KNX 1070 AM) to hear if the "event" was going to be reported. After the 11:00 PM national news, they announced that they were receiving a lot of calls from the south Orange County area regarding sonic booms or an earthquake. They went on to say that they had received no indications of an earthquake. They also said that they had been forewarned that there were military exercises underway at camp Pendleton (about 25 miles south of my house) and that there were line charges and artillery involved. In the 5/7/98 LA Times Orange County section, there was a short article mentioning the noises. The article stated that the noises were caused by flight exercises from El Toro (MCAS). I don't believe this report as El Toro is only 3 miles West of my house and I would have heard the jets taking off (I live under the takeoff pattern) and flight operations after 9:00 PM are unusual. I believe the radio report because I have heard artillery from Camp Pendleton before and this "event" was similar (only slightly louder). Thanks for listening! =Steve Martin=
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 8 Re: The Paradigm Clock From: KRandle993 <KRandle993@aol.com> [Kevin Randle] Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 12:02:36 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 20:36:56 -0400 Subject: Re: The Paradigm Clock >From: ParadigmRG <ParadigmRG@aol.com> [Stephen Bassett] >Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 05:28:47 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: The Paradigm Clock >Paradigm Research Group <Commercial snipped> > "The Paradigm Clock" is dedicated to supporting and acknowledging >the work of researchers and activists in the field of >extraterrestrial related phenomena. >The concept is modeled after the "Doomsday Clock" first published >in 1947 by the "Bulletin of Atomic Scientists". >Midnight on the "Doomsday Clock" meant nuclear war had begun. >Midnight on �The Paradigm Clock" means that formal disclosure by >the governments of the world of the alien presence in our midst >has taken place. >The clock will move to and from midnight based upon future >events. It is currently set at 3 minutes to midnight because it >is the opinion of the Paradigm Research Group that formal >disclosure is close at hand. Seems to me that the way things are going, it ought to be set at 11:30, or maybe 10:45 or 7:02. We have heard since the 1950s that the full disclosure was on the horizon. The benevolent space brothers had helded produce "The Day the Earth Stood Still" as a way of announcing themselves. Anyway, I vote that we move the hands much farther from midnight to represent the real state of affairs. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 8 Nua Blather: Surviving the UnCon: Lesson II From: Dave Walsh <dave@nua.ie> Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 17:27:25 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 20:43:49 -0400 Subject: Nua Blather: Surviving the UnCon: Lesson II ******************************************************************* NUA BLATHER NUA BLATHER NUA BLATHER Weekly free email of Dogma Destruction, Forteana and High Weirdness By Daev Walsh Email: blather@nua.ie Web: http://www.nua.ie/blather/ ******************************************************************* May 8 1998 Published By: Nua Limited Vol 1. No. 52 ******************************************************************* SURVIVING THE UNCON: LESSON II Once more into the breach we stumble, to give a run down of the second day of the Fortean Times UnConvention 98 (with a brief hark back to Saturday. This week Blather is joined by not only by Barry 'Dacianos' Kavanagh and Mark 'Firestarter' Pilkington, but also Paul Holloway, giving his dissertations on MIBs. EMIBEES Jenny Randle's talk on Men In Black [25-04-98 1300 ROOM 101] Randles spoke seriously but entertainingly. I didn't start drowsing or eyeing the exit, as I have a tendency to do when most people talk UFOlogy for more than about ten minutes. In fact I thoroughly enjoyed her talk. She told of the number UFO witnesses who are happy to discuss their experiences at first -- but then suddenly clam up, refusing to talk at all. She argued that this happens too often to be entirely explained by fear of ridicule, or publicity. Her case histories of men, mostly not in black, intimidating witnesses, were all that authentic combination of the mundane, the fantastic and the ludicrous. These cases always seem to be teasing and inconclusive to the point of irritation; leads fizzle out, the clinching piece of evidence is lost. Each case appears to have a slightly implausible element. Two mysterious men interview a witness and seem not to recognise an electric fire, or they refer to each other by number, not by name. There is always that feeling that something isn't quite right. Randles concluded that there is a covert intelligence unit which checks witnesses' credibility, finds out what they know, and encourages them to keep quiet. They often behave in a slightly bizarre way, which adds that characteristic air of implausibility should the witness decide to talk. She hasn't seen a classic MIB case since the early nineties, and suggested it was a Cold War phenomenon, and that intelligence agents are posing as journalists these days. It occurred to me that a UFO investigator would be an ideal cover for a covert intelligence agent. And so I headed for the bar, my head spinning with double agent scenarios. I eyed my fellow Forteans with suspicion, wondering which, if any, were covert government intelligence agents. That was when I spotted Nick Pope... (http://www.ufomind.com/people/p/pope/)[PH] [Having heard Randles speak on this topic twice in the past, this time round she seems to have leaned towards less credible explanations -- I wonder why? - Blather] ============================= SUNDAY, DEAD TIRED [26-04-98] SKINNER AND SHAVER [1100 ROOM 101] Doug Skinner was back on the podium, to talk about 'Richard Shaver and the Shaver Mystery - The Life of Richard Shaver, father of Hollow Earth Mythology'. Shaver, after an unstable life, and a long itinerary of jails and mental homes, came to the fore with his rants to Ray Palmer's *Amazing Stories* magazine. Shaver claimed that a race of beings called 'Deros' were living underneath the earth. Palmer raised the circulation of the magazine by printing it as fiction in March 1945, titled 'I Remember Lemuria', unwittingly sparking off the beginnings of discarnate cult concerned with hollow earth belief, abductions and amazonian feminist role models. Before long, *Amazing Stories* was little more than a megaphone for the deluded rantings of Shaver, and the letters page was chock-full of 'true' accounts by people claiming that they too had encountered the subterranean 'Deros'. Again, Skinner was utterly charming in his delivery. This is not the place to go into the entire 'Shaver Mystery' - for more, read 'The Man Who Invented Flying Saucers' by John A. Keel (http://www.nwlink.com/~park/ufo/skeptic/keel_article.html) and 'The Shaver Mystery by Richard Toronto (http://www.parascope.com/nb/articles/shaverMystery.htm).[DW] BIG NELLIE [1200 ROOM 101] Skinner was supplanted in Room 101 by Colonel John Blashford-Snell of the Scientific Exploration Society (http://freespace.virgin.net/sci.explore/), to talk about his 'Mammoth Hunt' - A search of the giant elephants of Nepal, as documented in his book of the same name, co-written with Rula Lenska (ISBN:0-00-638741-1 http://freespace.virgin.net/sci.explore/pubs/mamoth.html). Blashford-Snell was certainly a highlight of the UnCon, even though his discussion was mostly anecdotal chat concerning the expedition itself, the search for the 'Beast of Bardia'; a reported Mammoth running loose in the woodlands of Nepal. What Blashford-Snell and his fellow explorers actually discovered was a new kind of elephant of marked difference to the Indian elephant - much larger, and with a sloping back and protuberant forehead, hinting at some strange throwback to the mammoth. As soon as I get round to reading his book, I'll review it in Blather. [DW] PRODIGIES [1300 ROOM 101] Without a break, I stayed to watch Jan Bondeson talk about 'The Fish Boy & the Cat Woman - Monsters & marvels in maternal impressions', curious practice of blaming prodigious births or physical deformities on impressions received by the mother during pregnancy - as documented by the likes of the Journal of Scientific Exploration, 'A Case of Severe Birth Defects Possibly Due to Cursing' by Ian Stevenson (http://www.jse.com/v3n2.html): Department of Psychiatric Medicine, University of Virginia, School of Medicine, Charlottesville, Virginia 22908 Volume 3 Number 2: Page 201. 'For centuries it was widely believed that a strong unpleasant shock to a pregnant woman could cause birth defects in her baby. Medical books and journals published numerous cases of this type up to the early decades of the present century. The idea of "maternal impression" gradually lost ground during the 18th and 19th centuries, mainly because it seemed to conflict with the facts of physiology. In cases of "maternal impression," the pregnant mother was usually reported to have viewed someone with a shocking deformity that her baby was said to reproduce. It has also been thought that cursing, verbally inflicted and without a visual stimulus, could produce birth defects. Three cases of this type, one published by a pediatrician in 1960, are briefly reviewed, and then a new case is reported. In both of the modern cases, the commonly recognized etiological factors in birth defects could not be identified'. See also 'Anomalies and Curiosities of Medicine' by George M. Gould and Walter L. Pyle, 1896. http://trace.waisman.wisc.edu/tcel/tow/WWW/GUTENB/aacom10.txt 'Maternal Impressions.--Another curious fact associated with pregnancy is the apparent influence of the emotions of the mother on the child in utero. Every one knows of the popular explanation of many birth-marks, their supposed resemblance to some animal or object seen by the mother during pregnancy, etc. The truth of maternal impressions, however, seems to be more firmly established by facts of a substantial nature. There is a natural desire to explain any abnormality or anomaly of the child as due to some incident during the period of the mother's pregnancy, and the truth is often distorted and the imagination heavily drawn upon to furnish the satisfactory explanation. It is the customary speech of the dime-museum lecturer to attribute the existence of some "freak" to an episode in the mother's pregnancy. The poor "Elephant-man" firmly believed his peculiarity was due to the fact that his mother while carrying him in utero was knocked down at the circus by an elephant. In some countries the exhibition of monstrosities is forbidden because of the supposed danger of maternal impression. The celebrated "Siamese Twins" for this reason were forbidden to exhibit themselves for quite a period in France'. Gould & Pyle also mention another topic covered by Bondeson: 'In 1726 Mary Toft, of Godalming, in Surrey, England, achieved considerable notoriety throughout Surrey, and even over all England, by her extensively circulated statements that she bore rabbits. Even at so late a day as this the credulity of the people was so great that many persons believed in her. The woman was closely watched, and being detected in her maneuvers confessed her fraud. To show the extent of discussion this case called forth, there are no less than nine pamphlets and books in the Surgeon-General's library at Washington devoted exclusively to this case of pretended rabbit-breeding. Hamilton in 1848, and Hard in 1884, both report the births in this country of fetal monstrosities with heads which showed marked resemblance to those of dogs. Doubtless many of the older cases of the supposed results of bestiality, if seen to-day, could be readily classified among some of our known forms of monsters. Modern investigation has shown us the sterile results of the connections between man and beast or between beasts of different species, and we can only wonder at the simple credulity and the imaginative minds of our ancestors. At one period certain phenomena of nature, such as an eclipse or comet, were thought to exercise their influence on monstrous births. Rueff mentions that in Sicily there happened a great eclipse of the sun, and that women immediately began to bring forth deformed and double-headed children'. Bondesons's talk, whilst entertaining, offered nothing new, serving more as a meander through the topic for the unitiated. However his book, *A Cabinet of Medical Curiosities* (SBN: 0801434319) is certainly a recommended addition to the reference section of the fortean bookshelf. [DW] "ASSESSING THE EVIDENCE for strange phenomena" [1300 HALL 2] The question of witness perception was examined by FT publisher and Borderlands author Mike Dash. In an enlightening and thought provoking talk he demonstrated how the evidence for phenomena such as monsters, UFOs, physical mediumship and mince pie eating Martians will often vanish under the sceptical fortean's inquisitive gaze. Invoking such powerful concepts as witness expectation (e.g. at Loch Ness), fantasy prone personalities (4% of us, apparently), temporal lobe epilepsy and false memory syndrome (both important in the study of alien abduction reports), Dash reminded us that the greatest deceiver is nothing but the human mind itself. In an age where more people than ever "want to believe", messages such as these are increasingly important. [MP] "CONSPIRACIES AND THE YEAR 2000" [1400 UPPER HALL] Damian Thompson reminded us that his talk this time last year was further away in time from the new Millennium than we are now, so he expected less laughter from the audience this year about doomsday prophecies and the like. Forteans proved yet again to have, in Thompson's words, "nerves of steel," because they laughed heartily through the grand Book of Daniel conspiracy and the ridiculous way in which barcodes are supposed to be "666." There was food for thought as well as comedy (I think), as our orator (who should have aimed his mouth at the microphone a little more - it was damned hard to hear him) insisted that the year 2000 could not be shrugged away as "just a number." He stressed the huge significance of numbers in the history of all human culture and our deepfelt urges to divide time by numbers. An interesting aside in all this was the fact that in the East, 1999 is a more significant date for "the end" than 2000 because Nostradamus, and not Christianity, is big in Japan. [BK] I SAW IT, I TELL YE [1500 ROOM 101] The last lecture that this Blatherskite limped to was Mark Chorvinky's 'The Search for Thunderbird Photos' as documented in Strange 18&19 (http://www.strangemag.com/thunderbirdphoto.html). This is a bit of a weird one. Many fortean researchers are *fully* sure that they have seen one of two *photographs* relating to the Thunderbird - one variation usually features about 30 men holding a huge bird, looking like a giant goose, with a wingspan of some 30 feet (9m), on the interior deck of a barn of some description. This photo has been incredibly well 'reproduced' a sketch by Larry G. Thomas -- the cynical may comment that it's *too* well reproduced. The other version shows, in contrast, just a few cowboys with a nothing less than a pterodactyl hanging on the side of a wooden building, as sketched by David T. St. Albans. The problem is, no one can remember *where* they saw either photo. An article in the Tombstone Epitaph of 1890 seems to have sparked it off (although earlier accounts have been uncovered), with a reported killing of a 162ft long (50m) flying lizard with *twelve* legs. Contrary to common belief, there was no photo with the article. Chorvinsky meandered through the evidential debris and frustrations of many forteans, John E. Keel included, concluding that the phenomenon -- that of the mystery of the photo of another fortean phenomenon -- the Thunderbird is some bizarre form of 'false memory' which many researchers have fallen prey to -- or maybe unseen forces have wiped all evidence from our libraries? [DW] "ASK THE FORTEAN" PANEL [1500 ROOM 101] The panel were Ian Simmons ("chairing"), Paul Sieveking, Rob Irving, Peter Brookesmith, Bob Rickard and Mark Chorvinsky. Mr Simmons asked questions which the panel then tried to answer. These questions had been chosen by the public (or something) and written down for Ian. Sadly, the panel had to be asked if they believed the Santilli Autopsy Film to be genuine. This reminded me of two years ago at the UnConvention when the film had been screened and the diverse audience had unanimously voted that they thought it a fake. The panel said much the same things as people did back then and Ian Simmons even cracked the same joke! Things brightened up when the panel were asked about any paranormal experiences they may have had. Most of them admitted to living normal lives, except for Mark who had a strange lunch, once. Thoughts for the day were provided by Bob, who said that more investigation should be done into religious phenomena (e.g. stigmata) and Rob, who remarked that weird things happen to crop circle makers and hoaxers but that no-one really takes any interest in that side of things. [BK] ASSAP FEEDBACK (results of experiments) [1700 ROOM 101] Over the weekend many UnConvention goers subjected themselves to a series of technical "PSI" tests, administered by The Association for the Scientific Study of Anomalous Phenomena (http://www.assap.org/assap). The moment of truth now arrived! The results did not seem to diverge much from mathematical probability, although one subject guessed what was in a box in Bromley (an orange) and two others made scales move by psychokinesis. I did all the tests myself, the most fun being the telepathy test, in which an ASSAP member tried to "transmit" a picture to me and I had to draw whatever came into my mind. An award was given to the most psychic of us all (the orange guy) and everyone left with a nice feeling that they had helped ASSAP try out their tests, methods and equipment. CHARLES FORT INSTITUTE [1700 HALL 2] For those of you that may not be aware, The Charles Fort Institute - which is intended to become the 'world's leading resource for scholarship and research in the understanding of strange experiences and anomalous phenomena' was inaugurated on Sunday 26th of April 1998, with founding member tally of 59 souls. More information, including contact details can be found at (http://www.forteana.org). [DW] OH, THE EMBARRASSMENT Last week Blather told of the antics of the world's leading fortean air musicians, *Alien Spawn*, and their performance during Peter Brookesmith's 'Martian Cat's talk at the UnConvention. The evidence can be perused at the Magonia website. . . http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/uncon.html Mark Pilkington (m.pilkington@virgin.net) Barry Kavanagh (barryk@connect.ie) Paul Holloway (PHolloway@compuserve.com) Dave (daev) Walsh (blather@nua.ie) May 8th 1998 Feedback and comments to <blather@nua.ie> Have your say: http://www.nua.ie/blather/blabber ******************************************************************* NUA INTERNET SURVEYS A weekly newsletter, Internet Surveys is a free digest of the most interesting surveys containing data relating to the Internet. It is available by sending an email to <surveys-request@lists.best.com> with the word "subscribe" in the body of the message. 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UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 8 Re: NASA Endorses Podkletnov's Anti-Gravity From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 00:01:48 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 20:57:50 -0400 Subject: Re: NASA Endorses Podkletnov's Anti-Gravity >From Columbus Dispatch. URL: http://www.dispatch.com:80/pan/news/hovernws.html Stig ******* Weighty talk about anti-gravity Scientist is working with local company to duplicate experiment May 8, 1998 By Mark D. Somerson Dispatch Staff Reporter He said all objects placed above the spinning disk showed a small drop in weight. Take a controversial Russian scientist, NASA and a high- tech Columbus company and the world just might -- might -- have a good shot at beating gravity. But before anyone fires an apple at Sir Issac Newton, many things have to happen, including determining whether Eugene Podkletnov and his quest for shielding Earth's pull are real. Yesterday, a representative from the National Aeronautics and Space Administration brought Podkletnov to Superconductive Components on the Northwest Side, to talk anti-gravity. "Ten years ago, physicists would have said this stuff is Star Trek -- impossible to do," said Ron Koczor, associate director of the Space Science Laboratory at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Ala. "But if Eugene's work can be duplicated independently, this will change totally how the world does business." In 1992, while working in Finland, Podkletnov said he achieved a 2 percent reduction in the force of gravity by using superconducting materials. He said, in essence, that he had built an anti-gravity machine. In the world of physics, 2 percent is a giant leap. This is the stuff, scientists said yesterday, that Albert Einstein described but couldn't prove -- that objects can be shielded against the waves of gravity that make what goes up come down. But there is a problem. No other scientist has been able to replicate the Russian's results, and Podkletnov has yet to publish his work in a science journal. Although Podkletnov said his idea is valid, he isn't exactly sure why it works. "This is an entirely new field of knowledge," he said. "We can't understand everything. This is physics, chemistry, ceramic technology, electrical engineering and more." Still, NASA was interested enough to bring him to its Marshall Space Flight Center four days ago, and to Columbus to see whether his work can be duplicated. Podkletnov reported that he reduced gravity while a 12-inch superconductive ceramic disk was spinning rapidly inside a container of super-cold liquid nitrogen. He said all objects placed above the spinning disk showed a small drop in weight. Despite many attempts, NASA's Marshall Center had no success in replicating the experiment. So NASA came to Superconductive Components. In February the company was awarded a $70,000 NASA grant to duplicate and someday enlarge the superconducting disks. One day the space agency would like to stack ceramic disks atop one another, freeze and spin them, and watch gravity lose its edge, Koczor said. James Gaines, vice president and general manager, said if Superconductive can duplicate Podkletnov's disk, it could lead to a second NASA award of about $750,000. "We've sold materials to NASA and a number of credible people," Gaines said. "But we've also sold it to every kook in the world. We've had the president of every UFO society in the country buying small versions of this stuff." The biggest ceramic disks that Superconductive has made are 6 inches in diameter. "The degree of difficulty goes up when you make the disks bigger," Gaines said. Still, he said Superconductive is willing to give it a whirl. "When his idea first hit the Internet, hundreds of people were trying to duplicate it," Gaines said. "Now, it's winnowed down to the strong-hearted people with a lot of money." NASA has the money. "I don't know if it's going to work," Gaines said. "But if it does, it's going to be a hoot."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 8 Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 01:02:32 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 21:06:35 -0400 Subject: Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved Michael Lindemann writes:: >From: CNINews1 <CNINews1@aol.com> [Michael Lindemann] >Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:19:28 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net, Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk >Subject: Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Not Solved >>Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 18:35:49 -0400 >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved >>Lemme see.... early this morning Stig forwards >>Ryan H. Turner's news.group post: ><snip> >Errol, >Right you are. First, I don't believe the Space Shuttle EVER >lands at Vandenburg... >>>This is to make sure that everyone is aware that this >>>"SKYQUAKE" has turned out to be sonic booms from the space >>>shuttle landing at Vandenburg. >... it lands at Edward AFB in the Mojave if not at Kennedy. >Second, since it did land at Kennedy as noted by NASA, and about >10 hours after the reported sonic booms, there is in point of >fact NO WAY the shuttle caused those booms. >Michael Lindemann >From "alt.ufo.reports". Stig ******* Subject: NEW INFO REGARDING SO CAL SKYQUAKE REPORT From: ryfyrman91@aol.com (RYFYRMAN91) Date: 1998/05/08 Message-ID: <1998050817285300.NAA15069@ladder01.news.aol.com> Newsgroups: alt.ufo.reports Hello everyone.... First of all, to Michael Lindemann and others that have in a surprisingly hostile manner called me out on the carpet about the SKYQUAKE report I posted, I appreciate you checking. I certainly do NOT want to be thought of as a hoaxer or overreacter or whatever, because the FACT remains that 3 nights ago at 2200hrs, the 911 system went berserk and I was the one answering the phones in the Emergency Communications Center where I work. So, that much is absolute fact....SOMETHING happened. Now, here's where I apologize to the world of UFOdom....The next day I went into work, I brought up the incident with a fellow dispatcher who was NOT working with me the previous night, and I asked him if he heard the skyquake. He laughed at me (because he knows of my interest in UFOs and stuff) and said that the shuttle had flown over and that he had read about it in the paper. So, for me, point settled!! BIG MISTAKE!! So, I come home, post my findings, and that's that. Many of you were gracious to me and said see, at least 911 works. Others said that debunkers would use this and say "See, it was nothing" to add fuel to their fires. But I got other emails, too..... And, all I can say is thank God for Michael Lindemann and the others that checked out my story. There WAS NO shuttle flying over Orange County, CA that night at that time. I did NOT confirm the truthfulness of what my co-worker told me. So, I was WRONG!! And I really, really apologize for that because I don't want people thinking that I am rattling the sabres for nothing...... and now, for the TWIST on the story. Two nights ago, at about 11pm, a reporter from the Orange County Register who I am on first name basis with, called in for her usual "beat check" just to see if we were working on anything. I told her no, but did she hear the sonic booms from the previous evening. She said no, she didn't hear anything, but she was aware of it being a reporter. And I told her it was just the shuttle landing (I know I said Vandenburg, but I meant Edwards by the way....I know, I SUCK!!). Anyway, she vehemently denied that and said she had traced the noise to 3 F-16 jets that came into El Toro at that time and they were flying too fast. FOLKS, I am not qualified to check that out. I will stand by my initial report however, that we were swamped with 911 calls at the time I listed in my previous post. I called BOTH El Toro Marine Base in Lake Forest as well as Camp Pendleton in Oceanside right AFTER the 15 minutes of phone HELL and BOTH denied flights of any kind. IT WAS TOO LATE FOR FLIGHTS in my experience, but again, I am not qualified. So, have at it you guys. Now "they" are saying 3 F-16 fighters in the sky at 2200hrs......so I was just curious, if they were F-16's flying that late in Orange County, how the HELL did people in Pomona (25 miles north) or Norco/Riverside (20 miles northeast) hear it?????? I plan on answering everyone's email to me personally, but it will be just a little time before I can. Thank you one and all for listening....and again, how can I prove over a post that I am very sincere about this and that I really apologize for this initial misleading info? Well, I guess you'll have to trust me, because here I am again trying to set the record straight. THAT should be a good indication... Ryan H. Turner 911 Emergency Communications Dispatcher Orange County, California RYAN H. TURNER Show Design Consultant/Marching Instructor/Judge Orange County, California Former DM for Velvet Knights Drum and Bugle Corps (1986--James Bond Show....1987--Original Magical Mystery Show
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 8 Ricardo's Saga From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <pharaoh@web2000.net> Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 19:02:46 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 22:30:16 -0400 Subject: Ricardo's Saga One of the most exciting cases, Hollywood style, in which we were involved was Ricardo's case. The investigation took place in Mendoza, Argentina in 1982. This is an unknown abduction case investigated by the late Dr. J. Allen Hynek, Dr. Willy Smith and myself. Photo-illustrated. Visit: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/1341/index.html Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo MIAMI UFO CENTER
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 8 Bar Graph Comparing Day To Night Sightings Plus From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 02:33:04 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 22:41:51 -0400 Subject: Bar Graph Comparing Day To Night Sightings Plus >From "alt.alien.visitors". Stig ******* Subject: Bar Graph Comparing Day to Night Sightings Plus Sunspot Activity From: Joe Ritrovato <joerit@flash.net> Date: 1998/05/07 Message-ID: <355258C0.1FA6@flash.net> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors The following has been edited for posting here; originally appearing on two prominent UFO mailing lists and submitted by: fm: Larry Hatch; mailto:larryhat@jps.net to: List members re: Chart using *U* data by Joe Ritrovato; mailto:joerit@flash.net Months ago I posted (on the UFO Updates and Project47 mailing lists) some rather dry statistics regarding the relative proportion of daytime UFO sightings to night sightings. Now, Joe Ritrovato has kindly punched the data into a histogram that is more visually appealing and informative. Joe has also superimposed a curve showing the ever changing number of sunspots observed, saving me a ton of work.. [Here's the breakdown of data for the 1947-1995 chart: 10,553 report entries were used from the *U* database. I've included reports for all times during the period in 8 hour segments (3,927 for the period of dawn, 5am-7:50am with 599 reports, and dusk, 4pm-8:50pm with 3,329 reports; 5,160 for night, 9pm-4:50am; and 1,466 for day, 8am-3:50pm). -J.R. ] Certain trends appear: 1) The ratio of 'broad daylight' sightings is much higher in the earlier decades, through the 1940s, and tapers off after that. 2) Daytime sightings are not only more frequent during 'flap' or wave years with high counts as we would all expect, but the apparent PERCENTAGE of day to night sightings is ALSO higher in wave years. 3) At times, sunspot frequencies seem to track sightings frequencies. At other times, they track inversely, i.e. one going down while the other goes up. [With the exception of the 1965-68 wave period (lagged a few years), sustained waves seem often to correspond with the solar minimum periods. There also seems to be a correlation for short bursts of UFO activity and peaks in sunspot activity, such as in mid '47, late '57, and '90. The least likely period for UFO activity (lasting for as few as 3 or as many as 6 years) appears to begin soon after sunspot maxima and ends one to three years before the year of sunspot minima. This could be good news for Ufologists who want to schedual long vacations during non-peak UFO periods (if the next peak in sunspots happens in 1999, then 2000-2002 should be pretty tame). -J.R. ] In short, I see no simple correlation between sunspots and UFO sightings. This is one result I would not have predicted .. and implies that: a) UFOs are not significantly affected by sunspot activity. b) Arguments attributing UFO sightings to sunspots are weakened. I would be interested in other indications which I may have missed. [I, of course don't fully agree with Larry Hatch's assessment as indicated earlier. Other opinions are welcome. -J.R.] Please click below on Joe Ritrovato's chart URL to see the display: http://www.flash.net/~joerit/docs/sun02ufo.gif The data is divided into three time-categories.. [my own breakdown of the categories is given near the top of this posting. -J.R.] ... 'Broad Daylight' .. the hours when it is always daytime, for most anyplace except the two polar regions. 'Fringe' (here called Dawn/Dusk) for morning and evening hours which may be light or dark depending on Latitude and time of the year. 'Night' for hours that are always dark in temperate regions. Data was taken directly from the *U* UFO Database, filtered by a minimum strangeness rating of 5 [night-lights and fireballs which maneuver] and a minimum credibility rating of 6 [both on a scale of 0 to 15.] This is roughly 10,000 cases in all (there are nearly 17,000 entries in the database), after discarding sightings where time of day is unknown. For more information on the *U* Database itself, please click below and visit Joe's presentation webpages for this program. [A demonstration program is available for download on these pages that is fully functional, but limited to data for the years 1952-53. If you'd like to check out my (J.R.'s) UFO pages with many great links, UFO Evidence, and articles related to waves/flaps and cyclic patterns that could be used for predicting activity, just click on the button at the bottom left of each of the *U*Demo display pages. -J.R.] http://www.flash.net/~joerit/docs/udemo.htm Best Wishes - Larry Hatch [and Joe Ritrovato]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 8 General Curtis LeMay: "UFOs Are Real" From: campbell@ufomind.com, Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 01:12:31 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 22:36:44 -0400 Subject: General Curtis LeMay: "UFOs Are Real" Received May 9 at 00.30 local time (GMT + 1 hour) via the UFOMIND mailing list. Stig ******* ----- (Posted with permission of author) ----- Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 14:02:12 -0800 From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas) To: ufomind@lists.best.com Subject: UFOMIND: General Curtis LeMay on UFOs General Curtis E. LeMay Commander, Strategic Air Command By William E. Jones MUFON State Director for Ohio William Hamilton of Arizona MUFON recently related a story over the Internet. According to Hamilton, "I had a friend in Long Beach, California. He was a UFO buff and ham radio operator. He struck up conversations with LeMay who also lived in the area over ham radio. One day he asked if he could visit the retired General, especially since his health was failing. "Once in LeMay's living room and having gotten acquainted he broached the subject of UFOs. LeMay answered that he knew about them and was pissed at the CIA because he wasn't told by [the CIA] the planets of origin (as if he expected that as part of a briefing.) "LeMay passed away shortly thereafter and my friend never returned for another visit." General LeMay made at least one public statement about flying saucers, this in his 1965 book written with MacKinlay Kantor entitled Mission With LeMay - My Story. The statement appears on pages 541 through 543. Interestingly, the subject of flying saucers and UFOs doesn't appear in the book's index. The most interesting comments made by the General are as follows: "Here, for what they are worth, are my own comments on the subject. Naturally I am not quoting any Classified information. I am giving the straightest answers I can give... The bulk of the [flying saucer] reports could be run down. Some natural phenomenon might usually account for those sightings which had been seen and reported, and thus explain them. However, we had a number of reports from reputable people (well-educated, serious-minded folks - scientists and flyers) who surely saw something. "There is no question about it: these were things which we could not tie in with any natural phenomena known to our investigators. "Many of the mysteries might be explained away as weather balloons, stars, reflected lights, all sorts of odds and ends. I don't mean to say that, in the unclosed and unexplained or unexplainable instances, those were actually flying objects. All I can say is that no natural phenomena could be found to account for them. ... "Unfortunately there is a current belief, on the part of the public as a whole - the intelligent public - that the United States Air Force has made and is still making a deliberate effort to discount all reported sightings. Furthermore, if they couldn't actually discount a certain case by referring to hallucination, inexperience, or mass hysteria - to disregard it completely. "It is alleged also that there have been attempts, by word of mouth or by directive to newspapers from the Air Force, to hush the whole thing up. To muzzle the press...People who believe these rumors are clinging to a falsehood. It is absolutely untrue that any such directive was ever put forth. I never heard of it in 1947, when the first saucer accounts were published; I never heard of it after I came to command SAC; never heard of it when I was in the Pentagon...We must have had a bad public relations program in this particular area, to let such an impression get out. ... "Let me repeat: to my knowledge, there's never been any directive or effort from the top, in the Air Force, to control the public attitude toward UFOs. "And repeat again: there were some cases we could not explain. Never could." Are there any hidden messages in General LeMay's comments? I am not sure. The reader should get the book, read all three pages, and decide for his or herself. An acquaintance of MORA's William E. Jones told Mr. Jones a story similar to Hamilton's. This acquaintance is a working journalist in Columbus, Ohio. He interviewed LeMay after his retirement from the U.S. Air Force during the General's visit to Columbus for another purpose. The interview did not deal with the subject of UFOs. After the interview was concluded the journalist asked LeMay off the record what his opinions were about the subject of UFOs. LeMay replied that UFOs were real and the subject of serious interest on the part of the government. There was no equivocation in LeMay's response. UFOs were real. Remember, it was General LeMay who told Senator and Presidential candidate Barry Goldwater, to stop asking him about the so-called "Blue Room" and its alien bodies at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base because LeMay was not going to discuss the matter with him. Did LeMay's attitudes about discussing these matters change after he retired? We'll let you know if we find out. +--------------------------------------------------------------+ | UFOMIND MAILING LIST | | Supporting the World's Largest Paranormal Website | | www.ufomind.com Moderator: Glenn Campbell | | | | Archived at: http://www.ufomind.com/misc/ | | Submissions to: ufomind@lists.best.com | | "unsubscribe"/"subsingle" to: ufomind-request@lists.best.com | +--------------------------------------------------------------+ RELEVANCE OF THIS MESSAGE: UFO gov't info Index: http://www.ufomind.com/people/l/lemay/ Received: (from daemon@localhost) by lists1.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) id NAA00777 for ufomind-errors@lists.best.com; Fri, 8 May 1998 13:55:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805082055.NAA00777@lists1.best.com> MIME-Version: 1.0
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 8 Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 01:52:00 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 22:39:47 -0400 Subject: Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved Michael Lindemann writes: >From: CNINews1 <CNINews1@aol.com> [Michael Lindemann] >Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:19:28 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net, Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk >Subject: Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Not Solved >>Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 18:35:49 -0400 >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved >>Lemme see.... early this morning Stig forwards >>Ryan H. Turner's news.group post: ><snip> >Errol, >Right you are. First, I don't believe the Space Shuttle EVER >lands at Vandenburg... >>>This is to make sure that everyone is aware that this >>>"SKYQUAKE" has turned out to be sonic booms from the space >>>shuttle landing at Vandenburg. >... it lands at Edward AFB in the Mojave if not at Kennedy. >Second, since it did land at Kennedy as noted by NASA, and about >10 hours after the reported sonic booms, there is in point of >fact NO WAY the shuttle caused those booms. >Michael Lindemann >From "alt.ufo.reports". Stig ******* Subject: Re: NEW INFO REGARDING SOCAL SKYQUAKE REPORT From: "Roy Coffman" <coffmans@worldnet.att.net> Date: 1998/05/08 Message-ID: <6ivqkc$7n0@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net> Newsgroups: alt.ufo.reports RYFYRMAN91 <ryfyrman91@aol.com> wrote in article <1998050817285300.NAA15069@ladder01.news.aol.com>... > Hello everyone.... >First of all, to Michael Lindemann and others that have in a >suprisingly hostile manner called me out on the carpet about >the SKYQUAKE report I posted, I appreciate you checking. I >certainly do NOT want to be thought of as a hoaxer or >overreacter or whatever, because the FACT remains that 3 >nights ago at 2200hrs, the 911 system went berserk and I was > the one answering the phones in the Emergency Communications > Center where I work. So, that much is absolute fact.... >SOMETHING happened. <snip> ... above by RYFYRMAN91 5/8/98 I heard the shuttle land at NASA (Kennedy) several days ago ... it seems to have a double sonic boom (spaced about a second apart, that would depend on speed of landing approach, and I was about 100 miles away from landing site). When I asked an aeronautical engineer who used to work at NASA she said the double boom is because the high tail is outside the usual super-sonic cone ... thus you get a shock wave from two areas (thus two BOOMS). If this is indeed true, then a shuttle should show two booms as a sonic signature. I am not an expert, but would like to see some comment whether this is indeed true. (This may not post, as this is my 1st attempt to answer a net post) HRC
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 9 Ufomind: John Alexander: Time to Tell From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 07:23:51 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 07:23:51 -0400 Subject: Ufomind: John Alexander: Time to Tell From: Ufomind Mailing List http://www.ufomind.com/misc/1998/may/d08-001.shtml John Alexander: Time to Tell From: Ed Komarek <ekomarek@mail.CairoNet.com> Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:05:23 -0800 ----- Forwarded Message Follows ----- Subject: Time to Tell Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:47:09 EDT From: John Alexander To: (Mailing list cut out) Here is a method to get the information out. Will witnesses take it or come up with a new Catch 22 so they can't be pinned down. A Challenge For many years we have been hearing about witnesses to UFO events that claim to have information they can't reveal due to their security clearances. Recently, there are examples of the most senior people responsible for national security stating they do not have information about UFOs or related activities, even though they have asked for any such material residing in their organizations to be provided to them. Previously Steven Greer sent a notice to many US Government officials stating that if his organization did not receive a response, they would consider security clearances null and void. This approach is nonsense. It would have no legal standing and would leave anyone violating a security oath at risk. Based on the following logic flow, I suggest another path be taken. That is, obtain conformation from the President and/or Director of Central Intelligence that UFO material per se is not classified. No private organization has the authority to establish their own official classification requirements. That would legally allow the witnesses to come forward without jeopardizing their oaths. It should be understood by those not familiar with intelligence collection that there is a difference between specific information and "sources and methods." That means that information obtained by sensitive sources may not be released if it could establish how that information was gathered. As an example, people having information from classified satellite systems could not come forward without clearing the data. However, there are a number of claims in which sources and methods are not involved. Examples might include seeing Eisenhower shake hands with an alien or other first hand witness accounts. Since sources and methods are not involved, such incidents could be freely recounted. All Roswell material would be accessible under these guidelines. Logic sequence 1. The US Government operates under duly constituted authority (The US Constitution) 2. The Armed Forces and other intelligence agencies are all part of the US Government 3. Those organizations have clear and officially articulated policies and procedures for classification of information or material 4. Some current and former members of the Armed Forces of the United States and other agencies state they have knowledge of UFOs that is officially classified 5. Those members with such information state they want to be released from security oaths in order to report that information to Congress or the public 6. The most senior representatives of the US Government officially responsible for determination of classification (the President, DCI and others) state there is no classification of material as it relates directly to UFOs 7. Therefore: Said members can reveal their information as it is not officially classified Note: This does not apply to information in which legitimately classified sources and methods might be revealed Many witnesses claim that they have been threatened by people acting in an official capacity from various governmental agencies. Such threats are patently illegal. It is a Federal crime for a US Government official to abuse his or her position by use of threats. Therefore, by establishing that no classification of UFO related material exists, witnesses should be free to report illegal intimidation or harassment to the FBI or other appropriate law enforcement agency. People experiencing such threats should be encouraged to file formal complaints. The UFO community should not be treated differently from the rest of society. After all, we expect residents observing drug deals to report them and testify against the dealers. Similarly we expect people to testify against organized crime. Both situations could place the witness as substantial risk. However, it is considered their civic duty to report, and many do. Therefore, it is entirely reasonable for those UFO witnesses who claim to have been victimized by abuse of power by Government agents to report those crimes. +--------------------------------------------------------------+ | UFOMIND MAILING LIST | | Supporting the World's Largest Paranormal Website | | www.ufomind.com Moderator: Glenn Campbell | | | | Archived at: http://www.ufomind.com/misc/ | | Submissions to: ufomind@lists.best.com | | "unsubscribe"/"subsingle" to: ufomind-request@lists.best.com | +--------------------------------------------------------------+ RELEVANCE OF THIS MESSAGE: Gov't UFO info Index: John Alexander (#13) Echo: Government UFO Cover-Up (#7) Mothership -> Ufomind Mailing List -> 1998 -> May -> Here Our Original Text Copyrighted =A9 1994-98 Area 51 Research Center PO Box 81166, Las Vegas, NV 89180 Glenn Campbell, Webmaster &= Moderator This site is supported by the Research Center Bookstore Please visit our business if you appreciate our free web services. = New Items Send us corrections using this Feedback Form or email= webmaster@ufomind.com This page: http://www.ufomind.com/misc/1998/may/d08-001.shtml = (5/9/98 7:16) * *** ***** ******* = ********* Created: May 8, 1998
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 9 Re: The Paradigm Clock From: "Stanton T. Friedman" <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 08:05:05 -0300 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 07:41:20 -0400 Subject: Re: The Paradigm Clock > From: KRandle993 <KRandle993@aol.com> [Kevin Randle] > Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 12:02:36 EDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Paradigm Clock > > > >From: ParadigmRG <ParadigmRG@aol.com> [Stephen Bassett] > >Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 05:28:47 EDT > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: The Paradigm Clock <snip> > >The clock will move to and from midnight based upon future > >events. It is currently set at 3 minutes to midnight because it > >is the opinion of the Paradigm Research Group that formal > >disclosure is close at hand. > Seems to me that the way things are going, it ought to be > set at 11:30, or maybe 10:45 or 7:02. > We have heard since the 1950s that the full disclosure was > on the horizon. The benevolent space brothers had helded > produce "The Day the Earth Stood Still" as a way of > announcing themselves. > Anyway, I vote that we move the hands much farther from > midnight to represent the real state of affairs. > KRandle I second Kevin's motion. I see no evidence that the walls are coming down.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 9 Project 194 - Bessie Brazel Schreiber From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@FRONTIERNET.NET> Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 17:19:25 PDT Fwd Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 08:03:28 -0400 Subject: Project 194 - Bessie Brazel Schreiber >Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 18:05:09 EDT >From: HerbUFO <HerbUFO@AOL.COM> [Herb Taylor] >Subject: Bessie Brazel Schreiber > Greetings to the List: >For those of you who still hold to the mistaken belief that >Bessie Brazel Schreiber did not participate in the Roswell >incident, I must tell you that you have been grossly misinformed. >Since her testimony is devastating to the alien spaceship >belief, it has been deemed necessary by the pro-Roswell crowd to >wave her away. <snip> Hi, everybody, Herb points to one of the problems here, it seems to me. So much of the debate focuses on whom one chooses to believe. Those who agree with what one prefers to think happened at Roswell side with those whose testimony favors that side, and of course Roswell proponents will have no trouble finding informants who, apparently just as sincerely, tell a very different story from the one our friend here endorses. This why I have despaired of our having, ever, a fully satisfying explanation, ordinary or extraordinary, of what happened in New Mexico in early July 1947 -- short, of course, of delivery of contemporary official records of undisputed provenance. Again, as I've said before, the tragedy is that the investigation did not begin until three decades after the fact. We may all have some gut instinct about what occurred back then, but barring some unexpected new development, none of us can prove it. It would behoove all of us to be modest in these circumstances. Jerry Clark ----------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 9 Project 1947 - Bessie Brazel Schreiber From: HerbUFO <HerbUFO@AOL.COM> [Herb Taylor] Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 18:05:09 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 08:09:23 -0400 Subject: Project 1947 - Bessie Brazel Schreiber Greetings to the List: For those of you who still hold to the mistaken belief that Bessie Brazel Schreiber did not participate in the Roswell incident, I must tell you that you have been grossly misinformed. Since her testimony is devastating to the alien spaceship belief, it has been deemed necessary by the pro-Roswell crowd to wave her away. Let's look at the FACTS, not some cherished shibboleth. Bessie Brazel Schreiber has given sworn testimony detailing her participation in the Roswell incident. Her memory of the matter is quite clear. The description of the debris that she provides makes it clearly evident that she was talking about the Roswell matter itself. Her description of the debris closely matches that of the other actual witnesses who saw and/or handled it, even down to the whitish tape with the pinkish-purple markings on it(an indisputable connection to Mogul). If she was confused, then so were the other witnesses, as well. The foolishness of this concept is obvious. Further, that she was on the debris field, helping her father "Mac" Brazel pick up a lot of the debris, is confirmed by an article in the Roswell Daily Record of July 9,1947. It states unequivocably that Bessie was there! These are the FACTS. Regards, Herb Taylor
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 9 Alfred's Odd Ode #246 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 07:09:22 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 09:33:55 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #246 Apology to MW #246 (For May 9, 1998) Alone on my horizon, in the dark of deep, deep space (I'm speaking metaphorically, this is no report or trace), I saw a tiny point of light a little brighter than before so I walked on over to it, and I opened up its door. This was the Jeff Rense program, and my software let me in. I float in streaming audio as the story, then, begins. . . I'd never heard John speak before, and though he didn't speak for me, his message made the plainest sense we all should try to see. He came across so affable, when he *should* be quite insane -- if half the things he said occurred . . . perhaps _I'd_ be the less constrained. I have it on authority. I'm not just flying blind. I've interviewed some principles; this man is more than kind. How he holds it all together in a manner so reserved, when fate has dealt such ugly cards -- how _is_ he undeterred. How does he keep his lip stiff? How does he stay the fray? How does he hold the threads so well, what could shatter all away. He's calming, more than lucid, yet he gestures towards the dark, and would have us throw some light that way to make it bright and stark. His message is unpopular. At the whim of unguessed forces, we're as bugs beneath the slashing hoofs of herds of running horses. We don't even see it coming, and the terror he alludes we could, sure, be well prepared for but our shallowness intrudes. Distracted by our cars, and stuff, we wallow in the mire of that which makes us useless, throwing water on our fire. Dejected by the mainstream, and displaced by *honored science*, we're sold a bill of worthless goods we give our vain reliance. Dr. Jacobs says it may be bad; Mr. Hopkins says intruders. But John Velez just shakes his head, a current Jeb Magruder <g>? "It happens, friends and neighbors," Twixt the lines, I heard him say, "Keep our heads in this insanity -- and we'll live to save the day. Keep on laughing, and collecting, and _cooperate_ together -- don't succumb to knee jerks, answered questions will be better." He spoke with a consuming grace, his brightness undenied -- even Rense felt warm and fuzzy, and the program was sublime. I know some folk who listened twice, and _tried_ to find the bull shit -- looked for cult of personality, and other stuff that wouldn't fit . . . looked for fallacy in thinking, looked for logic unrefined -- but John Velez would come up clean, the truth seemed unconfined. I wish he lived next door to me. I'd feel, somehow, safer. I think that I could like him, I think he'd make me braver. I could check with his commitment, I'd compare my notes with his. And we'd both be better for it -- a little closer to what is. Lehmberg@snowhill.com John Velez has more neighbor potential than James Dobson, Newt Gingrich, or Andy Rooney -- combined! He's gonna have to come down _here_ though. Somebody stole my camera (a half frame Olympus Pen F) on a visit to his city in 1973, and STILL it pays! <g>! Restore John Ford. -- Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 9 Re: The Paradigm Clock From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 08:31:08 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 09:35:39 -0400 Subject: Re: The Paradigm Clock >From: KRandle993 <KRandle993@aol.com> [Kevin Randle] >Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 12:02:36 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Paradigm Clock >We have heard since the 1950s that the full disclosure was >on the horizon. The benevolent space brothers had helded >produce "The Day the Earth Stood Still" as a way of >announcing themselves. >Anyway, I vote that we move the hands much farther from >midnight to represent the real state of affairs. >KRandle Yes, Kevin. The "full disclosure" that Ufology looks for is not unlike the end of the world that religious sects seek. Both have been imminent in the minds of true believers for a very long time. I think that both are about equally likely to happen in my lifetime. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 9 Re: The Paradigm Clock From: UFOLAWYER1 <UFOLAWYER1@aol.com> [Peter Gersten] Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 10:28:39 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 10:42:21 -0400 Subject: Re: The Paradigm Clock >>From: KRandle993 <KRandle993@aol.com> [Kevin Randle] >>Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 12:02:36 EDT >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Paradigm Clock <snip> >Anyway, I vote that we move the hands much farther from >midnight to represent the real state of affairs. I agree...let's say about 11:00....a.m. Peter
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 9 Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 08:08:26 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 12:06:03 -0400 Subject: Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved >Subject: NEW INFO REGARDING SO CAL SKYQUAKE REPORT >From: ryfyrman91@aol.com (RYFYRMAN91) >Date: 1998/05/08 >Message-ID: <1998050817285300.NAA15069@ladder01.news.aol.com> Dear Ryan: (the 911 dispatcher ) I used to do some dispatching myself once. I know what its like to get slammed with a jillion calls, and I do not envy your job at all. I simply want to thank you for presenting the data you had at the time, as clearly as you could. There is no need to respond to this email, you have too much as it is. Best wishes. - Larry Hatch.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 9 MUFON a bit behind... From: Steve Neeley <stneeley@mail.bright.net> Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 14:28:40 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 15:02:17 -0400 Subject: MUFON a bit behind... ************************************************************* MUFON executive reveals backlog of 800 UFO reports. ************************************************************* During a guest appearance on Jeff Rense`s Sightings on the Radio available on RealAudio files, MUFON`s executive treasurer John P. Timmerman declared his personal backlog of over 800 UFO reports on tape complete with names and addreses of witnesses. Timmerman offers little in the way of hope of ever investigating all these "credible reports". Taken by Timmerman, firsthand, as he traveled and toured his exhibition of UFO photos at malls and shopping centers throughout the country. The exhibition now resides in The Roswell Museum in New Mexico. "People would come up to me and offer these reports" says John. "I was amazed" he said. Playing a tape recording of an ex military man giving details about a sighting is chilling when you multiply that by 800. Mr Timmerman says "they await an investgator with the time, money, and expertise to be examined scientifically." They deserve no less. John P. Timmerman was handpicked by J. Allen Hynek to work with him in the early days of Ufology. He is active with CUFOS, MUFON, and FUFOR as well as the recently resurected NICAP. One of the true pioneers of Ufology. May I add my respect and well wishes in the future. Hats off to John P. Timmerman. Steven J. Neeley, Director Ohio Skywatch International http://www.geocities.com/soho/5782 stneeley@bright.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 9 Apollo 13 Style Satellite Salvage First Of Its Kind From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 12:30:06 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 12:30:06 -0400 Subject: Apollo 13 Style Satellite Salvage First Of Its Kind From: http://www.thestar.com/editorial/news/980509NEW18_FO-MOON9.html The Toronto Star Saturday, May 9, 1998 Damaged Satellite To Be Sent Around Moon Apollo 13 Style Salvage Attempt First Of Its Kind LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - In an experiment reminiscent of the Apollo 13 rescue mission, an aerospace company has sent a communications satellite out of its wobbly Earth orbit and on its way to the moon for a slingshot manoeuvre to bring it back to a stable path above the equator. Hughes Space and Communications Co. said yesterday that engineers at its Mission Control Centre in the Los Angeles suburb of El Segundo fired the satellite's rockets Thursday, sending it toward the moon. It said mission controllers had confirmed that the spacecraft was on its way to the moon by using radio signals received on the ground and by telescope observations. ``This is the first known lunar mission involving a communications satellite and the first mission financed by a non-governmental entity,'' Hughes said in a statement. It is also the first salvage effort of its type. On NASA's 1970 Apollo 13 mission, portrayed in the 1995 movie starring Tom Hanks, an oxygen tank exploded on the spacecraft when it was 321,000 kilometres from Earth leaving three American astronauts without power or heat. The astronauts crawled into the attached lunar lander while ground control helped guide their craft around the moon and safely back to Earth. The HGS-1 satellite was launched Dec. 25 from Baikonur in Kazakhstan atop a Proton rocket. While in flight the rocket malfunctioned, leaving the satellite in an unstable orbit. The Asia Satellite Telecommunications Agency (ASIASat), a Hong Kong-based company which had bought the satellite from Hughes and paid for its launch, recovered $200 million from a consortium of 27 insurance companies. ASIASat had intended to use the satellite for television and other communications in Asia. After devising the salvage mission, Hughes approached the insurers with their plan. The insurers gave Hughes title to the satellite in return for a share of the profits if it can be put to use. Thursday's two-minute burn followed a series of shorter firings to raise the satellite's altitude in preparation for its journey to the moon. Hughes said it expected the satellite to reach the moon in eight days, travelling at 39,000 km/h. It will swing around the moon, coming as close as 8,000 kilometres above the lunar surface. The slingshot manoeuvre uses the moon's gravity to increase the spacecraft's speed as it comes around the moon and then sends it hurtling back toward Earth. The satellite should reach a stable orbit over the equator May 16, Hughes said. The rocket motors may be fired periodically to fine-tune the satellite's trajectory and will also be used as brakes to put the HGS-1 in its final orbit. Asked why the rocket motors could not simply have been used to put the satellite in a working orbit without going to the moon, a Hughes spokeswoman said such a manoeuvre would have burned up all the rocket's fuel. In addition to its unstable orbit, the satellite's inclination was such that its transmitting antennae were pointing away from Earth. Spokeswoman Fran Slimmer said engineers would start tests on the satellite when it reached its new orbit and would know by the end of May if they had been successful. ``Once we know it is working then we will start marketing it,'' she said, adding that Hughes hoped to sell it to maritime organizations. Hughes Space and Communication Co. is a unit of Hughes Electronics Corp.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 9 Re: The Paradigm Clock From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 11:53:59 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 15:03:31 -0400 Subject: Re: The Paradigm Clock > From: UFOLAWYER1 <UFOLAWYER1@aol.com> [Peter Gersten] > Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 10:28:39 EDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Paradigm Clock > >>From: KRandle993 <KRandle993@aol.com> [Kevin Randle] > >>Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 12:02:36 EDT > >>To: updates@globalserve.net > >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Paradigm Clock > <snip> > >Anyway, I vote that we move the hands much farther from > >midnight to represent the real state of affairs. > I agree...let's say about 11:00....a.m. > Peter For me the midnight gongs, bells, whistles and chimes have sounded, and continue to sound -- I've seen the damn things! Place the hands at midnight! Lehmberg@snowhill.com -- Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 9 BWW Media Alert 19980508 From: BufoCalvin <BufoCalvin@aol.com> Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 15:17:06 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 15:43:03 -0400 Subject: BWW Media Alert 19980508 Bufo Calvin P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com Website: http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that attribution is made to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with strangers before you e-mail them something. If you forward this, please make sure it is clear that you are forwarding it). May 8, 1998 All times Pacific unless otherwise noted. TELEVISION THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL Saturday, May 9, 9:00 PM, UFOS: DOWN TO EARTH: REASON TO BELIEVE Sunday, May 10, 1:00 AM, UFOS: DOWN TO EARTH: REASON TO BELIEVE Sunday, May 10, 1:00 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: CABINET OF CURIOUSITIES (including the moving stones of Death Valley) Sunday, May 10, 1:30 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: PREHISTORIC PUZZLES Sunday, May 10, 2:00 PM, STRANGE BUT TRUE: SPOOKED/MIRACLE HEALING (English hauntings, psychic healer) Thursday, May 14, 9:00 PM, ANIMAL X: SUPERSTIONS (Bigfoot, Loch Ness Monster, and an Egyptian wolf-type cryptid) Friday, May 15, 1:00 AM, ANIMAL X: SUPERSTIONS (Bigfoot, Loch Ness Monster, and an Egyptian wolf-type cryptid) Saturday, May 16, 5:00 PM, UFOS: DOWN TO EARTH: REASON TO BELIEVE Sunday, May 17, 1:00 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: MISSING APEMEN (Yeti, etc. Sunday, May 10, 1:30 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: SPONTANEOUS HUMAN COMBUSTION Sunday, May 17, 2:30 PM, ANIMAL X: SUPERSTIONS (Bigfoot, Loch Ness Monster, and an Egyptian wolf-type cryptid) NBC Sunday, May 17, 7:00 PM, UNMASKED! EXPOSING THE SECRETS OF DECEPTION (includes psychic healing) THE LEARNING CHANNEL Sunday, May 10, 1:00 AM, LOCH NESS SECRET SCI-FI CHANNEL Generally still running SIGHTINGS re-runs at 7:00 PM on Sunday, and 5:00 PM and 9:00 PM weekdays. SYNDICATED Wednesday, May 12, MONTEL WILLIAMS: psychic Sylvia Browne Friday, May 22, MAURY POVICH: psychic hot-lines ___________________________ This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, t he week before. _____________________________ **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. For more information on OPUS, see its we bsite at http://members.aol.com/josephxx3
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 9 Re: Ricardo's Saga From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 08:24:40 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 15:40:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Ricardo's Saga >Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 19:02:46 -0700 >From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <pharaoh@web2000.net> >To: *UFO UpDates* <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Ricardo's Saga >One of the most exciting cases, Hollywood style, in which we were >involved was Ricardo's case. The investigation took place in >Mendoza, Argentina in 1982. This is an unknown abduction case >investigated by the late Dr. J. Allen Hynek, Dr. Willy Smith and >myself. Photo-illustrated. >Visit: >http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/1341/index.html >Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo >MIAMI UFO CENTER Dear Virgilio: I visited the "geocities" site address below, but could not find anything about the Mendoza abduction case you mentioned. Is there some special way to get the simple basics? Year, date, and location? - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 9 Re: The Paradigm Clock From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia] Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 16:28:25 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 17:40:51 -0400 Subject: Re: The Paradigm Clock >>Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 08:31:08 -0400 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Paradigm Clock >From: KRandle993 <KRandle993@aol.com> [Kevin Randle] >Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 12:02:36 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Paradigm Clock >We have heard since the 1950s that the full disclosure was >on the horizon. The benevolent space brothers had helded >produce "The Day the Earth Stood Still" as a way of >announcing themselves. >Anyway, I vote that we move the hands much farther from >midnight to represent the real state of affairs. >KRandle <<Yes, Kevin. <<The "full disclosure" that Ufology looks for is not unlike <<the end of the world that religious sects seek. Both have <<been imminent in the minds of true believers for a very <<long time. I think that both are about equally likely to <<happen in my lifetime. <<Bob Too bad there aren't more positive minded people like Steve Bassett on this list. The amount of people that are willing to take UFOs seriously IS increasing. The tide is turning and things are moving along. Imminent disclosure? Don't know. Great progress? I would have to say yes. Unfortunately, lots of the posters on this list wait until they can attack somebody elses thoughts, then they post a message. Talk about negative thinkers. Oh yeah, I forgot, you guys are realists and I'm part of the believer group. Keep up that great attitude guys! We'll never get anywhere with all those negative thoughts. Now I sound like my father. That's not a bad thing. Keep up the great work everybody. Thank god for tireless workers like Bassett, Greer et all. At least they're trying. Joe Murgia
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 9 Re: Billy Meier From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch) Date: 09 May 98 14:04:00 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 17:39:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Billy Meier Date: May 09 1998 19:43:00 GMT From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de <Joachim Koch> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject:Billy Meier Hi Errol, Hi List! A German researcher colleague, Holger Bruns, has sent the following which might be of interest in the ongoing revelations about Mr. Meier. It is an email he wrote after he had read something about Mr. Meier in a German esotheric magazine. --------------------------------His Email---------------------------- Dear Robert Nathan, I am working as a radio reporter for some German radio networks. Recently I met a group of UFO believers to get some information about their activities. They have a very religious and esoteric point of view and they gave me an article titled "Der Fall Billy Meier" (The Case Billy Meier). Billy Meier is an alien contactee. His story has been published by "Magazin 2000" in the issue Nr. 100. "Magazin 2000" is an esoteric magazine from Germany. The author, Michael Hesemann, wrote, that you and a person named Bob Post of JPL analysed the UFO photographs taken by Billy Meier. The result of this investigation: From a photographers point of view, the pictures are not a falsification. It is a bit hard to believe that JPL supports an attempt to fit an UFO report to reality. My question is: How true is the JPL part of the Billy Meier story? I am very curious to read your answer. Regards, Holger Bruns --------------------------------And the Answer----------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 15:29:56 -0700 From: Bob Nathan <bxn@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> Subject: Re: Request I have never been given good enough photos or video good enoughto analyse. The Meier people have always only given me disorted and out of focus imagery to which all I could say was NO CONCLUSION POSSIBLE. THAT IS NOT AN ENDORSEMENT. Bob Nathan --------------------------------------------------------------------- So here is another piece of the puzzle. Joachim Koch, Hans-Juergen Kyborg
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 9 'Alien Interview' Available as .mpg or .mov? From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl> Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 00:01:31 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 18:25:11 -0400 Subject: 'Alien Interview' Available as .mpg or .mov? Hi people, I received some questions concerning the alledged "Alien Interview" that showed up on video. But to be honest, I cannot make any statements concerning that footage if I haven't had the chance to view it myself. I know it's available on the net as a .ram file (RealVideo) wich my comp can't handle. The video is stil not available here in holland. The only thing we saw so far is the same picture over and over again. So my questions are these: Is there anybody out there who knows if there's a .mpg or a .mov-version of that footage? Is there anybody that has more stills of the tape in .gif or .jpg-format? I really would appreciate your advice. Thanks, Andy Denne A.U.R.A. aura.aa@wxs.nl
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 9 Re: {92} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 22:44:11 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 18:21:28 -0400 Subject: Re: {92} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network ______ _______ ____ ------ / / // ____// |---------------------------------------------- U K / / // ___/ / / ' 9th May 1998 / / // / / / / N E T W O R K part 2 Issue 92 --- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------ The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with subscribers in over 40 countries. This issue comes in 4 parts. If any part is missing please mail: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject section e.g. Repost {92} part 1 or part 2. [UK 3]****** Source: Teletext News (ITV Text Serveice) Publish Date: Sunday 19th April 1998 Total eclipse of sun in the UK A retired army chief has been appointed to lead a team to plan how to cope with a 500,000 strong army of total eclipse watchers expected in Cornwall next year. Huge numbers are expected to travel to watch the first total eclipse of the sun on mainland UK for 70 years. New "eclipse supremo" Gage Williams, 52, will plan for a range of matters including accommodation and traffic. uk.ufo.nw says: We'll be there in late 1999. Look out for a full report and photographs. [UK 4]****** Source: Teletext News (ITV Text Service) Publish Date: Thursday 9th April 1998 Secret maze built under city A secret underground maze built in the event of a nuclear war has been hidden under a city for more than 40 years. The vast complex of tunnels and rooms in Birmingham was designed in 1952 to house 20 people who have formed a regional government. The shelter would have provided food, light and heat for three months and one room even had a snooker table. uk.ufo.nw says: During the week of this report several television news reports were shown. If anyone has any further information on the maze under Birmingham please get in touch at our usual address: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk [UK 5]****** Source: Daily Mail newspaper (UK) Publish Date: Friday 24th April 1998 A natural-born beauty as Dolly has a little lamb By Michael Seamark Dolly the world's first cloned sheep proudly presented her new baby to the world yesterday - a beautiful spring lamb called Bonnie. But, unlike her famous mother, the creation of the cuddly little newcomer - born 11 days ago - was entirely natural. The father was a four year old Welsh mountain ram named David. Graham Bulfield, director of the Roslin Institute in Edinburgh, which cloned Dolly from a single breast cell of another sheep, said: "Despite Dolly's unusual origins, the birth of her lamb confirms that she is able to breed normally and produce healthy offspring." Dolly sparked an ethical and scientific furore when her existence was revealed last February. Some scientists questioned whether she is a true clone because her 'genetic' mother died before she was born and it has been impossible to prove the two animals were identical. Bonny faces no such controversy. Dolly is a Finn Dorset and father David a completely different breed. After mating last November, Dolly was regularly monitored and in the days leading up to the birth was placed under 24 hour surveillance. Bonnie was born at 4am on Easter Monday, weighing just under 7lb. Despite Dolly's clinical background, the institute said: "She has shown a strong maternal instinct and is an enthusiastic mother." Bonnie's healthy birth is expected to counter fears that Dolly may be prone to premature ageing and age related disorders as a result of being cloned from a six year old adult. The lambs arrival also provides an important boost to the commercialisation of the technique that produced Dolly. Dolly and Bonnie are currently spending much of their time indoors. For Bonnie, life will be longer than most of her kind - who end up on the dinner table. "As a celebrity sheep, we will be keeping her here for her natural life," said the institute. [UK 6]****** Source: Strange But True (ITV teletext Text Service) Publish Date: Saturday 2nd May 1998 Tesco's to supply space station. Supermarket giant Tesco could be sending it's home delivery service into orbit with an order to supply food to astronauts on the new space station. Nasa has asked the store for samples of it's best selling lines with a view to putting them on the menu in space. It is looking for nutritious food for the American/Russian space station when it is commissioned in 2003. uk.ufo.nw says: Tesco's is one of the largest supermarket stores in the UK. We understand that Tesco's supplied food to Richard Branson and the Virgin Atlantic team for their round the world balloon attempt. Nasa were impressed with the nutritious foods supplied. [UK 7]****** From: Nicholas Blachford <minator@hearit.demon.co.uk> Northern Ireland under attack - by ET! This has been reported in the local press recently, unfortunately all the papers have been thrown out so I'm going by memory! Northern Ireland under attack - by ET! On 13th December 1997 an explosion was heard near the town of Belleek in county Fermanagh Northern Ireland. The reports of the blast lead to the security forces doing a search for a suspected bomb and even closing off some roads but nothing was found. It wasn't until the next month that a farmer noticed a extra 6 foot wide circular pond in one of his fields. Calls were made to Armagh Planetarium and they turned up to investigate the site. The crater was drained but nothing was found except a badly damaged milk churn. Later investigations managed to find a 1.5 mm bead of glass, it is unknown if this was the source of the crater but it's all they've found so far. The site is very muddy and it is suspected that the real culprit may have sank down out of reach. It either was small and hit very fast or was large and hit relatively slowly. Planetarium officials noted that the object which landed had hit the ground had done so at almost 90 degrees and also pointed out that another rather larger object hit Greenland on the same night. This object was so big in fact that a scar was visible in satellite photos. Had the Greenland object hit in Northern Ireland it would have leveled the nearby town of Belleek. Nicholas Blachford mailto:minator@hearit.demon.co.uk http://www.hearit.demon.co.uk [UK 8]****** From: "damian.robson" <damian.robson@virgin.net> Sighting near Ashington, Northumberland I would like to report on a sighting my brother and his partner had in November 1996 which was the last of a number of objects they saw in the sky during the months of October and November in that year. My brother and his girlfriend live on the NE coast of England near Ashington in Northumberland and it was about 5.25pm on the 4, 5 or 6 of November when after hearing the noise of a jet he looked out of his sons bedroom window towards the NW when he saw a group of lights moving South. Then suddenly from behind came a smaller group of lights which flew past the first group turning sharply Eastwards towards his home. Then from over the wood in front of my brothers house came what he described as being a disco of different rectangular shaped coloured lights of which were green, blue, purple, yellow, red and white. He noticed that the lights seemed to be stacked on top of each other in layers and that there were more red lights than the other colours. He called on his partner and they both watched as the object passed slowly and silently over their home which they then lost sight of. They went outside to look but all they could see was a small cluster of lights in the distance which then disappeared. If you have any reports of this sighting or would like more infomation on this or the other sightings they saw over these two months email me on the address below and I can put you in contact with them. uk.ufo.nw says: After requesting further information Damian was good enough to send us the below report. With regards to my brothers sightings, these earlier ones occurred over a period of a month up to the night of the one I wrote about earlier. There was one evening when it was dark while he cycled home from a friends House. He saw an object hovering which he first thought was a helicopter but had no sound. He noticed that the object had a red, yellow and blue glow to it. He kept on walking and then lost sight of the object through the gaps of the houses which overlook the woods. When the object was seen again about 12 seconds later it had travelled fast as it seemed much closer than before. He noticed it had two bright white bar lights and a flashing red light on top. There was no noise which you would expect if it were a helicopter. He lost sight of it again because of the houses so he peddled a further 100yrds to the end of the street and saw the object again but it was slightly higher in altitude and a little more distant than before. It then changed direction by moving sharply upwards at an angle he described as being about 80 degrees. When he got home he got out his binoculars and observed the object with his partner who he called from the bathroom to view the object too. The object by then looked different as there were seven lights, one being a white bar light which did not flash, the other a red flashing light as seen before and the others being orange in colour, which flashed in sequence. He went to the park to observe the object out of the glare of the street lights and noticed that it would travel at high altitude from West to East before moving out of sight but sometimes crossing the same point of the sky. All through October he witnessed lights in the sky which were red, green and white (I am not sure at this time whether these lights were seen individually or on separate occasions or together) which moved about with flight paths that crossed the same parts of the sky regularly. One night in late October he heard the noise of a jet and when he looked out of the window he saw an object he described as being a jumbo jet without wings as it had bar lighting running along 2/3rds the body of the tube with a red flashing light at the rear. This object passed very low over the house. This was a different object to the one which I wrote to you a while back. Although I have copied from notes he has given me and put down in words that he has told me, there is a lot of patchy detail. I hope I have been helpful in giving you more information which may shred more light on identifying what was in the sky at that time. [UK 9]****** Source: Fortean e-zine "Phenomena On-Line" Date: March 1998 From: bernhard.nahrgang@ob.kamp.net (Bernhard Nahrgang) The Search Goes On Jodrell Bank, the world famous radio telescope in Cheshire is to be used to search for messages from other planets. Operated by the University of Manchester, the 250 foot Lovell Telescope will link up with the 1,000 foot telescope at Arecibo in Puerto Rico.+ Speaking on BBC Radio, Ian Morrison said, "It will be the most sensitive search undertaken by man to see if there is anybody out there trying to talk to us." In 1993 NASA stopped funding their own programme in the search for extraterrestrial intelligence, but did build a receiver capable of picking up 250 million signals simultaneously. "You don't know what frequency anyone might be transmitting to us so you have to search quite a broad band.", said Ian Morrison, "Now linking that receiver with the two most sensitive telescopes in the world makes a system that's really quite something and if anybody is going to pick up signals from out there I reckon we are going to do it." Having the two telescopes situated over 1,000 miles apart will mean that interference from local transmissions can be ruled out. The two sites will be linked via the Internet and as soon as one finds a signal it will alert the other. The frequency of the transmission will also be slightly different at the two sites and so noises from satellites above Earth and further out in the Solar System can be eliminated. Ian Morrison said, "I'm sure there is a lot of life out there. On our planet, life arose almost within years of the conditions becoming right - however it took a lot longer for more complicated life to evolve, about 3 billion years. We are beginning to discover other planets around other stars.... I'm sure that the Universe and the galaxy is teeming with life - now whether that life has got to the point where it could communicate or whether it would want to we don't know". Leading project scientist Seth Shostak said, "It is my personal view we will find clear evidence of extra terrestrial life in the next 10-15 years". World News ========== [W 1]****** Source: The Associated Press From: Bernhard Nahrgang <bernhard.nahrgang@ob.kamp.net> Congressman Schiff Dies at 51 Steve Schiff, whose battle with skin cancer forced him to decide not to run for re-election this year, died today at age 51. The five-term New Mexico Republican, who had been fighting aggressive squamous-cell skin cancer for more than a year, died this morning at his Albuquerque home. Schiff had been absent from Washington, D.C., since last April but had been continuing to conduct 1st Congressional District from home. During his years in Congress, Schiff was credited with a compromise plan that allowed Speaker Newt Gingrich to resolve ethics allegations by paying a $300,000 penalty to reimburse the government for investigative costs. Once, when Schiff opposed a congressional pay raise, he donated the amount of the raise that year to charity. He also gained headlines in 1993, reopening a federal investigation into the so-called Roswell Incident in which extraterrestrial beings were purported to have crashed northwest of Roswell in 1947. Schiff asked the General Accounting Office, Congress' investigative arm, to seek Air Force documents relating to the incident. The Air Force said a secret high-tech spy balloon crashed, not an alien spacecraft. [W 2]****** From: Barry <phnixvan@mail.cth.com.au Entity ?? contact, Australia. My name is Barry Davidson, I am a retired Police Officer and currently a businessman in the manufacturing field. On the evening of 18th and 19th of April, 1996, my family and I, four people in total, were involved for a period of several hours of contact with, for want of a better description, an electrical entity. The 'entity' was not visible but was real enough to cause physical injury through electrical discharge when accidentally contacted physically. It moved for a distance of approx. 120 feet throughout the house over a period of approx. 4.5 hours and seemed to conduct it's movements intelligently, always being in an area where we would easily locate it. A list of the injuries suffered by the participants to the event include the following. Low grade radiation sickness, extreme nausea, severe headaches lasting for from two weeks to three months, skin marking, [not scars.] Three of the participants have developed, at the same time, acute subjective tinnitus. All suffered aches and soreness to muscles and joints. Evidence left behind includes a sheltered rock in the garden edging blasted to pieces, [shrubbery undamaged], blast or abrasion marks on the adjacent pathway, a candle partly melted and separated of it's chemical componentry, [the stearin reverting to crystalline form] and the wick exposed but not charred. There was a shadow imprint of the pergola roof on the mossy pathway below. An anomalous telemetry printout was received from the nearby reservoir monitoring station which cannot be explained. Unusual plant growth in the immediate area, etc. etc. At approx 12.20 am on the morning of 19th, April, a local couple, both respected business people, witnessed a large orange dome or globe directly above our house. This dome seemed to be emitting blue/orange light rays downwards towards the house. This time coincides with the anomalous printout from the telemetry and also one of the more spectacular events within the house. My reason for writing to you is as follows: I have investigated the incident as I would have a crime. I have preserved the evidence trail and secured the evidence and statements taken. I am afraid that I have used up all of the resources available to me in Australia in my attempts to investigate the incident, both at an official and unofficial level, and I wonder if you or anyone you could direct me to would be able to assist with further directions to follow in my investigative path. I realise that this incident probably does not fall within the traditional 'light in the sky' type scenario and therefore may fall into the 'too hard basket' for some traditional researchers. Never the less I would be immensely appreciative of any advice you may be able to give me or for any new investigative paths you may be able to open for me. Many, many thanks, Barry Davidson phnixvan@mail.cth.com.au [W 3]****** Source: The Arizona Republic Publish Date: 18th March 1998 From: bernhard.nahrgang@ob.kamp.net (Bernhard Nahrgang) Bizarre UFO tale no worse than other Clinton stories By Steve Wilson Speaking with people around the country last week about UFOs and the first anniversary of the "Phoenix Lights," I was told a remarkable story that didn't make my column. I omitted it because the account came from only one source, because it had no corroboration, and because it seemed preposterous. It simply didn't have enough credibility to be published. But thinking it over, and reflecting on coverage of the Clinton sex scandal, I've reconsidered. The standards for what constitutes a news story have fallen so significantly in recent weeks that the UFO account can now qualify as newsworthy. Since the story involves the president, I'm even more sure it merits public disclosure. Plus, if I don't get it in print now, Internet ace Matt Drudge might scoop me. Here's the skinny: The strange lights over Phoenix were only one unusual happening on the night of March 13, 1997. A U.S. reconnaissance satellite, which presumably could have picked up the source of the lights, went dead for no apparent reason. About the same time, the Pentagon increased the country's military preparedness to DEFCON 3 (the highest state of readiness for peacetime conditions). You may recall that on the same evening, President Clinton was staying at the Florida estate of golfer Greg Norman. The White House said that after talking with Norman late into the night, Clinton tripped on a step and seriously injured his knee. What really occurred, my source reports, is that the commander in chief was notified of the UFO activity and had to be moved quickly to a more secure location where he could oversee U.S. defense activities. In the rush by the Secret Service to hustle him away, he tripped and damaged the knee. My source, who asked to remain anonymous, is a nationally known UFO expert. His account isn't much less reliable than multiple stories reported in recent weeks about Clinton's personal life. I'm not talking about the likes of Hard Copy or the tabloids or Drudge, the rumormonger correctly described by one critic as "the troll under the bridge of Internet journalism." I'm talking about respected mainstream media. [W 4]****** Source: John Lundberg From: bernhard.nahrgang@ob.kamp.net (Bernhard Nahrgang) New Zealand's First Crop Circle - courtesy NBC-TV At the beginning of March 1998 three 'circlemakers' (John Lundberg, Rod Dickinson and Wil Russell) were flown out to the Southern most tip of New Zealand to be filmed creating a crop circle for NBC-TV. The footage will be used in the documentary - provisionally entitled - "Unmasked: The Secret's of Deception" that is due to be aired on prime-time TV across America during May, then around the world in the following weeks. It has an estimated US audience alone of 25 million. We were asked to design a complex crop formation that could be made at night in under four hours. The formation we designed had over 100 flattened circles and a diameter of 300ft, putting it on a par with some of the most complex formations to appear in the fields of England over the past few years. To view the formation and for further info visit: http://www.head-space.com/circlemakers/nztrip.html [W 5]****** From: bernhard.nahrgang@ob.kamp.net (Bernhard Nahrgang) Publicity campaign for the new VW Beetle Details from 'The Washington Post' on the publicity campaign for the new Beetle (American slang for the well-known Volkswagen model). URL: http://washingtonpost.com:80/wp-srv/WPlate/1998-03/13/152l-031398-idx. htm l Excerpt: "So the TV commercials (they begin appearing March 23), print ads (already in some magazines' April issues) and billboards attempt a generational straddle. The 30-second spot in which seven yellow Beetles form a daisylike circle -- tagline: "Less flower. More power" -- takes a backward look while emphasizing improvements. But the commercial in which a silver Beetle bounces and flips around the white screen, followed by the line "Reverse engineered from UFOs," is intended to feel more contemporary. And ads that will appear in Wired magazine and on the Yahoo! Internet finder use simple techie shorthand: "Beetle 2.0." [W 6] ****** Source: The Guardian newspaper (UK) Publish Date: 8th April 1998 From: "Adi" <adi@totalmusic.net> Amazed scientists discover space is full of vast oceans of water European scientists using an ultracold orbiting telescope have discovered unimaginable volumes of water in space between the stars. the discovery raises questions about life elsewhere in the universe - and provides new answers about why life was possible on Earth. The scientists were astounded to find water vapour in the freezing atmospheres of Jupiter, Neptune, Saturn and Uranus. They also revealed yesterday that they have discovered water in the atmosphere in of Saturn's mysterious moon - Titan - which is to be visited by a joint US/Euro probe in 2004. They have even identified a cloud of water, less than a light year across, in the constellation Orion. Hydrogen is the raw material of the universe. Oxygen is made in huge quantities by the stars. So water should be no suprise. There have been fleeting glimpses of water on the Sun's surface, and in March, American's confirmed the presence of water on the moon. But the discovery of vast oceans of water vapour - the mass of which in the Milky Way galaxy alone would equal tens of thousands of suns - by the European Space Agencies infrared space observatory ISO astonished astronomers. "I think our imaginations failed to describe the variety of places, the variety of circumstances, and the variety of conditions under which we found it ," said Paul Murdin of the British National Space Centre, yesterday. Using instruments called spectroscopes, scientists have identified and astonishing range of organic molecules, in space, including hydrogen cyanide, alcohol and formaldehyde. But water is the first requirement for life. The 600 million ISO equipment confirms once again that there could be life on planets in other solar systems. The next step will be to look for tell-tale signs of life itself: concentrations of oxygen or ozone in distant planetary atmospheres. The ISO discovery also confirms a growing belief that water on Earth may have been delivered by comets, icy scraps of dust left over from the birth of stars. The experiment opens up a new window on the universe. More than 1,000 astronomers from Europe, Japan and the US have used the telescope, launched in 1995, for more than 26, 000 observations. The data returned will keep astronomers busy for years. "All the missions we undertake in ESA have to be unique," said Roger Bonnet, head of science at the space agency. "In principle, the American's have done everything, so what remains to be done is impossible. All our missions are mission impossible, but ISO is more possible then any other." ISO should have survived for only 18 months but is still operating after 29. The telescope posed a huge technical challenge: to detect infra-red rays, it had to be cooler than any object it looked at - and the average temperature of deep space is -270oC. So ISO had to be cooled with liquid helium which kept the instruments temperature just above absolute zero (-273oC.) The satellite has peered into clouds of space dust to watch the formation of solar systems, and deep into the heart of ultra-luminous galaxies. It has also witnessed two galaxies colliding and, in one of them, the signature of a b;lack hole sucking a blaze of stardust into itself. Beside mapping the edge of the known universe, it has also seen a star being born inside the Horsehead nebula. Upcoming events =============== Groom Lake gathering Norio Hayakawa has asked me to relay information about an upcoming gathering of people (400-800 expected) at Area 51 on June 6th ("The People's Rally at Area 51"). If you are interested in attending this event, please go to: http://www.eagle-net.org/groomwatch/ Or you can contact Norio personally by email at: NorioA51S4@aol.com --- Anniversary Commemorative event of the UFO crash at Aztec, New Mexico The Aztec Public Library, Aztec, New Mexico, is sponsoring a 50th Anniversary Commemorative event of the UFO crash at Aztec, that allegedly occurred on or around May 25, 1948 (dates vary), by sponsoring a symposium on May 25, 1998 (Memorial Day Weekend) tentatively including the following topics: *the Aztec Secret - panel discussion. *the Roswell Incident *Aliens in the Movies *Government Cover-up of UFO Information *Alien Technology - Reverse Engineering *"The Day After Roswell" *German/Japan Connection *Aztec Public Library's Oral History Project *Personal Sightings *Native American views of UFO's *UFO's vs.. Spiritualism *Off the wall- the Weird and the Wacky! *Scoreboard - Fact or Fiction? We want to know? For more information please contact us at: aztecpl@cyberport.com http://www.cyberport.com/aztecpl Letters ======= From: "Philippe Piet van Putten" <abp1@uol.com.br> The Lolladoff disc Dear colleagues and friends, Has anyone ever heard about a small disc-shaped object alegedly discovered in by a Prof. Sergey Lolladoff (Oxford University) which changes its own weight ? According to old rumours, the object, refered as "the Lolladoff disc" has engraved drawings on it and belonged to the "Dzopa" a lost tibetan tribe which is said to be originated from "star people". I have a book in spanish which describes the object and mentions a british "Journal of Ethnology" (Oxford ?) as a solid academic reference for the discovery. I have contacted Oxford University but they never replied about Prof. Lolladoff or the disc (which is said to be kept in a bank safe). I would appreciate to hear your oppinion about this subject. Best regards Philippe Piet van Putten abp1@uol.com.br http://www.pufori.org/ --- Sighting over Leyton in London Could you please tell me if anyone else reported seeing a UFO in the sky over Leyton in London on Monday eve March 30 1998. My sister in law saw a round disc shape with lines all the way around and strange greenish/blue lights - no red lights. It slowly hovered across the sky above her house. She was instantly extremely frightened by the experience which confirms for her that it was a foreign object - not at all recognizable. She explained that it appeared to be quite large in size.Just wondering if anybody else has reported this to yourselves? Is there a common body that people can use to report sightings to or are you the most appropriate for this in the UK? many thanks, Joe Musselwhite --- From: "Kevin Slaney" <cranialjax@cambs.net> Any UFO groups in Cambridge, UK? I live in Cambridgeshire UK and wondered if you know of any UFO groups that meet in or near Cambridge UK? --- Do you know of any clubs or whatever in the Teeside (Middlesborough / Stockton) area? Nicholas Blachford mailto:nick@zereau.net --- From: Prstev <Prstev@aol.com> Hello.... My name is Paul and I live in the Brighton area. I would like to know if there are any organised UFO nightwatches within the south of England. Also are there any major UFO hotspots in the south, (ie military airbases). Thanks for your time..... Paul --- From: JOHN ROBINSON <xxl96@dial.pipex.com> UFO's Garston nr North Watford Date Sat 28th feb 1998, area Garston nr North Watford, time about 16:45 on the way to bolwing I and my wife saw something in the sky which was silver in colour going up and down left and right. We thought it was a helicopter, but it was doing things that could not be done. Then came another one and within a second they both disappeared. Did anyone else report it? --------------------------------------------------------------------- UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK STATEMENT uk.ufo.nw statement: The articles or text appearing within these pages are not necessarily the views or opinions of United Kingdom UFO Network. REPORTS Please forward all reports to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk WWW Visit us on the World Wide Web at http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/ BACK ISSUES & FILES For information on receiving back issues and other files send mail with REQUEST INFO in the subject area to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk IRC - (INTERNET RELAY CHAT) The meetings take place at 11pm (2300hrs) each and every Saturday night. Times will vary depending on your location in the world. If you would like to know the time in your part of the world send a mail to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk In the subject section put: IRC TIME INFO In the message of your mail please put: a) Your Country b) Your location c) Nearest major City Connecting to our weekly UFO meetings on the IRC (internet relay chat) is now easier than ever. **NEW** Fully configured MIRC irc software for you to download We continually tell people that one of the best IRC programs available is MIRC. It is a free/shareware program (fully working) and is the 'preferred' software for use on the IRC. Would you like to use MIRC to connect to the UK.UFO.NWs weekly Saturday meetings? Would you like to join in when we have regular special guests on the channel? Well now you can. We have two fully configured versions of MIRC available for download for PC users. They will enable you to connect straight to the UK.UFO.NW UFO channel. One version is for Windows 95 users. The other for Windows 3.1/3.11 users. To download go to: http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk and select the 'Download' link from the button bar. Both programs are approximately 600Kb in size and should download fairly quickly. Once you have downloaded the relevant file 'Run' or 'Load' it, which will install MIRC onto your hardrive. Next load the MIRC program. Enter your name, e-mail address and two nicknames that you wish to be known by on the channel. You only have to do this the first time you use the program. Lastly click on 'Connect to IRC server'. Once you are connected to a server a window will appear with '#ufo' inside. Click on the '#ufo' and then click on 'Join channel'. You will now be joined to the UK.UFO.NW ufo channel. In the right hand window you will see a list (including yourself) of all those who are currently joined to the channel. The large upper left window is where you view the conversations. The small lower window is where you type anything you want to say, remembering to press 'Return' on your keyboard at the end. The main windows within MIRC can be fully resized like most windows programs. Don't be shy. We are all a friendly bunch. Give it a go. You'll soon get the hang of it. We'll be happy to offer any assistance that you may need. For those of you needing help connecting to our IRC meetings send your questions to: ufo-irc-advice@crowman.demon.co.uk SUBSCRIPTION INFORMATION The UK.UFO.NW free fortnightly e-zine covering UFO reports and information from the UK and around the world is now available by subscribing to our new List Server. Send mail to: listserv@sjuvm.stjohns.edu In the main body of the mail put: subscribe ufo fn ln note: in place of fn put your first name. in place of ln put your last name. For example: subscribe ufo John Smith A confirm mail will then be sent to you which you need to reply to within 48 hours to be put on the e-zine mailing list. 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UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 9 {92} part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 22:44:12 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 18:20:12 -0400 Subject: {92} part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network ______ _______ ____ ------ / / // ____// |---------------------------------------------- U K / / // ___/ / / ' 9th May 1998 / / // / / / / N E T W O R K part 1 Issue 92 --- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------ The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with subscribers in over 40 countries. This issue comes in 2 parts. If any part is missing please mail: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject section e.g. Repost {92} part 1 or part 2. In this issue: Editorial --------- Future UK.UFO.NW -IRC- guests Fully configured MIRC irc software for you to download UK.UFO.NW -IRC- guest spot! --------------------------- Kevin Randle United Kingdom News ------------------- [UK 1] UFO shock for student [UK 2] 24,000mph UFO buzzes Britain [UK 3] Total eclipse of the sun in UK [UK 4] Secret maze built under city [UK 5] A natural-born beauty as Dolly has a little lamb [UK 6] Tesco's to supply space station. [UK 7] Northern Ireland under attack - by ET! [UK 8] Sighting near Ashington, Northumberland [UK 9] The Search Goes On World News ---------- [W 1] Congressman Schiff Dies at 51 [W 2] Entity ?? contact, Australia. [W 3] Bizarre UFO tale no worse than other Clinton stories [W 4] New Zealand's First Crop Circle - courtesy NBC-TV [W 5] Publicity campaign for the new VW Beetle [W 6] Amazed scientists discover space is full of vast oceans of water Upcoming events --------------- Groom Lake gathering Anniversary Commemorative event of the UFO crash at Aztec, New Mexico Letters ------- The Lolladoff disc Sighting over Leyton in London Any UFO groups in Cambridge, UK? UFO's Garston nr North Watford Editorial ========= Future UK.UFO.NW -IRC- guests Saturday 9th May - John Carpenter (USA) Saturday 23rd May - Nick Pope (UK MoD) Saturday 6th June - Philippe Piet van Putten (Brazil) Confirmed guests dates to be decided: Whitley Strieber (USA) James Bond Johnson (USA) Connection details to our IRC channel can be found at the foot of this e-zine. -- Fully configured MIRC irc software for you to download We continually tell people that one of the best IRC programs available is MIRC. It is a free/shareware program (fully working) and is the 'preferred' software for use on the IRC. Would you like to use MIRC to connect to the UK.UFO.NWs weekly Saturday meetings? Would you like to join in when we have regular special guests on the channel? Well now you can. We have two fully configured versions of MIRC available for download for PC users. They will enable you to connect straight to the UK.UFO.NW UFO channel. One version is for Windows 95 users. The other for Windows 3.1/3.11 users. To download go to: http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk and select the 'Download' link from the button bar. Both programs are approximately 600Kb in size and should download fairly quickly. Simple instructions for using MIRC are given at the foot of this e-zine. Give it a go. You will be surprised at how easy it is and how enjoyable the IRC can be. UK.UFO.NW -IRC- guest spot! =========================== This is a cleaned up log, of the United Kingdom UFO Network Saturday 11th April 1998 IRC meeting on #UFO with guest Kevin Randle. Kevin kindly gave up a couple of hours of his spare time to answer some questions for the visitors to the channel. Below you will find a list of questions that Kevin was asked along with his replies. The name in between the <>'s e.g.<Nesssus> is the nick name of the IRC user asking the question and where you see <KRandle> is of course the start of Kevin's reply. CREDITS: We would like to thank Dave_UFO for arranging this meeting with Kevin Randle. We would like to thank Kevin Randle for attending this meeting and answering the questions put to him. We would like to thank all the people involved in asking questions. We would like to thank everyone who attended this meeting. This meeting was moderated by Crow and Raine. Session Start: Sat Apr 11 22:58:38 1998*** Now talking in #ufo <grumps> Hi Kevin. Chris Rutkowski here. I owe you a drink. :) <KRandle> Hi Chris. I think you do, but I don't know how to collect it. *** K9 sets mode: +m <Raine> Hello everyone and welcome. I would first like to welcome Kevin to IRC and thank him for joining us on channel #ufo. Please remember if you have any questions for Kevin /msg crow or me with them and NOT Kevin, /join #ufo2 for unmoderated chat. Here is a brief introduction: <Raine> Kevin D. Randle is a professional writer who, for more than twenty years, has been studying the UFO phenomenon. Training by the Army as a helicopter pilot, and by the Air Force as an intelligence officer, provides Randle with a unique insight into the operations of the military, their investigations of UFOs, and into a phenomenon that has puzzled people since the Kenneth Arnold UFO sighting in June 1947. <Raine> During his investigations, Randle has travelled the United States to interview hundreds of witnesses who were involved in everything from the famous Roswell, New Mexico UFO crash of 1947, to the repeated radar sightings of UFOs over Washington, D.C. in 1952, to the latest of the abduction cases. Randle was among the first journalists to have the opportunity to review the files of the Air Force's UFO study, Project Blue Book when they were declassified in 1976. As a writer, Randle has produced more than 80 books on a variety of topics. Is there anything you would like to add Kevin or are you ready for the first question? <Raine> I give you Kevin Randle .... <KRandle> Just that I have been working to complete my dissertation for a doctorate in psychology and have been working to complete a couple of new books. <KRandle> KR <Dave_UFO> Within the last few years the 509th had their 50th anniversary. A representative of yours attended to see if any of the group (now getting on in years) would come forward with any information. At that time no one did. Has this changed since then? <KRandle> Everyone who was on Col. Blanchard's staff in 1947 has suggested that a UFO was responsible for the debris. We must remember that the 509th existed long past that event. But yes, there are others suggesting something unusual. KR <Nesssus> Hi and welcome to #ufo Kevin. I've spoken to Stanton on a number of occasions and he's suggested that a number of the "stories" of crashes are just that, stories, because Leonard H Stringfield never properly investigated these cases, would you agree? <KRandle> Len Stringfield was collecting data and then providing it to the rest of us. His service was extremely important. <KRandle> But, knowing that he was not investigating each sighting, we have to do that. <KRandle> I believe that the vast majority of UFO crash stories are just that. Stories. We have to check each one carefully. KR <Crow> Kevin, I have heard so many variations as to the shape of the Roswell craft found at the second crash site. Some seem to be saying it was a saucer shape others say it was like a triangular (stealth) type craft, what conclusions have you come to if any on the crafts shape? <KRandle> The best information is that the craft was triangular shaped. This is based on the credible eyewitness testimony. KR <EtBunny> "It is said that the Roswell story has changed over the years that the "alien" part of the story did not begin until the 70s. So how do we know the Roswell story is true? <KRandle> Actually, we have mentions of alien bodies long before 1970. I believe the Roswell story to be true based on the eyewitness <KRandle> testimony of very credible people such as Major Edwin Easley, the 509th Provost Marshal in 1947. KR <Nesssus> Kevin, out of all the crashes that you have investigated, which would you say is the most comparable to Roswell? <KRandle> Oh, a hard one. <KRandle> I would say that the best evidence would be for the 1962 Las Vegas, Nevada crash. <KRandle> I find Kingman, Arizona in 1953 to be intriguing, but it doesn't have the number of witnesses as the other two. KR <Dave_UFO> Out of all the Roswell witnesses you have interviewed who strikes you as the most important and why? <KRandle> I believe that Edwin Easley is very important because of who he was in 1947. He told me that the craft was of extraterrestrial origin. <KRandle> I find Patrick Saunders, the adjutant, who wrote on the flyleaf to one of my books that it was the truth, to be very important. He had nothing to gain and I learned of his notes after his death. No spotlight motivation. <KRandle> I find Frank Kaufmann to be credible because, to this point no one has demonstrated that he has lied about anything. <KRandle> There are those who don't like his testimony because of what it does to their personal beliefs and agendas, but the fact is, he hasn't been caught lying. <KRandle> There are a number of other lesser players who tell interesting stories. KR <Snakker> Kevin, where does the Roswell investigation go from here? <KRandle> I think we have about mined that field. We might find additional witnesses, but who is going to care? <KRandle> The skeptics are going to say their lying. The debunkers are going to ignore them. And the UFO <KRandle> researchers are going to try to pick apart the story if it doesn't conform to their beliefs. We're going to have to look for physical evidence and documentation. KR <^Darren> Hi Kevin. In connection with your research into Roswell, do you think aircraft such as NASA's Hyper X is using technology as in shape and aerodynamics which has been directly taken from the crashed craft? <KRandle> At this late date it's hard to imagine that. We have to remember that humans are very bright. Sometimes we don't need help to figure something out. KR <Nesssus> Kevin, do you feel that if some other crash cases where investigated as thoroughly as Roswell we would have some real evidence or more answers? <KRandle> That's a very distinct possibility. Or maybe just some other cases. The Washington Nationals, <KRandle> the radar cases from 1952 might provide some answers. <KRandle> And the Bentwaters case from the UK looks very good as long as Larry Warren's nonsense is left out of it. KR <Snakker> Do you think that Richard Tungate has any more substantial Roswell information to reveal? If so, what is holding him back? <KRandle> I think a number of witnesses could provide additional information if the right questions were asked and the right people asked them. KR <Crow> Hi again kevin, have you ever interviewed James Bond Johnson, the photographer who took the famous picture of Jessie Marcell in General Ramey's office with the weather balloon wreakage? As he will be a guest here on may 2nd and said he wanted to clear up some of the rumours before its too late for him to be able to do so. How much do you think he really knows? <KRandle> I was the first to interview him. His story, as related to me on audio tape, has substantially changed since he first told it. <KRandle> He'll tell you that I misquoted him, I forced my opinions on him, and that I'm wrong. <KRandle> Unfortunately for him, I have it all on tape. He has radically altered his story from those tapes. He <KRandle> denies he said things that you can clearly him him say. However, he was in Ramey's office, he did take the photographs <KRandle> of Ramey and Dubois, and he now claims he took the pictures of Marcel. Originally he said he took two pictures, then four and now six. KR <Benat2> Hey Kev thanks for coming, my question is back in March and April of '96 Billy Dolymere and I exchanged a few email messages, in one of them he defended saying you didnt say something, I don't remmeber what, but today I visited UFOMIND and it says he criticizes your work, what happened here? <KRandle> I have never met the man and as far as I know, never talked to him. He is a friend and supporter of Don Schmitt. He accepts everything that Schmitt said as true. KR <stu7> Kevin...I'd like to ask the obvious... have you had any opposition from the Army, AirForce or other services, regarding your investigations ? Any help from them ? <KRandle> No opposition. In fact, while I was being investigated for my top secret clearance <KRandle> the man doing the work included a number of the magazine articles I had published <KRandle> criticising the Air Force. I still got the clearance. KR <Dave_UFO> Is there currently any thought on where the Roswell wreckage might now be? <KRandle> I know that it, or some of it went, to Wright Field. I don't know if it is still there or moved. Everything beyond that is speculation. KR <Tinncup> kevin have you ever been told that military will tell the people the truth one day? <KRandle> Simple answer is NO. KR <TopGun__> Have you done research on the MJ-12 documents and do you think they are authentic? <KRandle> I have done a great deal of work on MJ-12. Although I originally believed them to be authentic <KRandle> I think the evidence is that they are faked. There is no provenance for them, the typeface didn't exist until <KRandle> years after the documents were supposedly written. There are many such problems. KR <Philos> Kevin What about Pappy Henderson's widow.... I assume you find her credible also ? <KRandle> Yes. She is a very nice lady who is telling the truth as she knows it. Unfortunately she didn't see anything first hand. She is repeating what her husband told her. <KRandle> More importantly, we have no reason to doubt what he said either. KR <Nesssus> Kevin would you rather be known as a UFO researcher or as a succesful Sci-Fi writer? <KRandle> Well, the term is actually science fiction or SF. I have done quite a bit of action fiction, techno-thrillers and the like. <KRandle> I think I would like to be known as a successful writer and a UFO researcher, a psychologist, helicopter pilot, former military officer, and a lot of other things that I have done. <KRandle> KR <Snakker> Is anyone in the U.S. Congress anywhere close to opening hearings/investigations into the UFO and hopefully the Roswell incident, also? <KRandle> I don't think we're very close to any sort of Congressional hearings at the moment. The Air <KRandle> Force, with their silly final reports, have convinced many that Roswell was nothing more than a balloon. KR <I-Knight> Kevin, at last week's meeting Nick Redfern mentioned a crash in Britain in 1955 where the bodies of some "small men" were recovered. Do you know anything about this? <KRandle> I did a quick search of my database on crashes and didn't find anything. Short answer: NO. KR <RavNmaD> Kevin, have you looked into the Varginha incident? and if so, what conclusions have you drawn? <KRandle> I've just looked at the beginnings of it. To me, it seems to slide toward the poor end of the <KRandle> scale, but I would like to see more, corroborated data before I write it off completely. KR <Snakker> How would you have improved the GAO's investigation into the disposition of Roswell records? <KRandle> By having them search from the other end as well. They couldn't find the outgoing messages. <KRandle> Let's look for those who would have been receiving them such as 8th AF HQ and SAC. <KRandle> Let's talk to a few people. I had heard <KRandle> that the FBI office in Albuquerque had some records so I turned the information over to the GAO <KRandle> hoping they would do something, but they didn't. I would have looked a little harder. KR <Crow> Who do you think is the least credible of the Roswell witnesses and why? <KRandle> Jim Ragsdale for changing his story. Gerald Anderson for inventing his and getting caught in his lies. Glenn Dennis for changing the name of the nurse once we had proved she didn't exist. KR <Snakker> Isn't Frank Kaufmann a genuine government whistleblower with bona fides? If this is true, why don't Time, Newsweek, NBC, CBS, New York Times, etc., jump on the Roswell incident story? Is it because it is about UFOs? <KRandle> Well, each of those agencies has done UFO stuff. CBS's 48 Hours interviewed him a couple of <KRandle> years ago. They didn't ridicule his story. However, the problem is that we are dealing with <KRandle> UFOs. No journalist who has spent 20 years building credibility is going to want to lose it in five minutes <KRandle> because of UFOs. KR <Dave_UFO> We read about all sorts of things on the net. Some believable. Some not. What is your current relation & feeling's on Don Schmitt? <KRandle> I have no relation with Don Schmitt. He lied about his education. He lied about his employment. <KRandle> He lied about other UFO researchers attempting to discredit them. And he continues to lie today. <KRandle> Blunt but true. KR <Philos> Kevin, You mentioned the '52 Wash. D.C. events .. What can we learn from that today ? There was no crash - just radar & photos ?? <KRandle> Radar, photos, pilot intercepts, ground visual sightings, radar sightings, all sorts of data that could be gathered. And we can see the US government duplicity in their response to the case. KR <Nesssus> Kevin, Do you think that the Bentwaters/Rendlesham forest affair is the UK equivalent of Roswell? <KRandle> No, but only because there wasn't a crash. There is some interesting evidence from that case. It's one that needs to be fully explored <KRandle>It has a place of its own in UFO history. KR <stu7> Kevin I think Roswell was the first case most ufologists heard of... are there any more recent cases, in the last year or so, where the chance of documenting still exists ? <KRandle> There is the case in Arizona that might provide some of that. I don't mean to be so American-centric, if that's a word, but the stuff I hear is usually from American sources. KR <etech> I have heard that Pres. Carter asked for UFO info, and was denied, I find that hard to believe. Have you heard anythng like that? <KRandle> Carter was going to ask for the information. I can't conceive of a situation where the information <KRandle> could be denied to the President. He has the power to get rid of anyone and find someone who will talk. <KRandle> So no, I don't think he was refused. KR <Dave_UFO> Kevin have you ever been intimidated or threatened with regards to the investigations you undertake? Do you know of anyone who has been forced by whatever means not to talk to you? <KRandle> I have never been threatened. A few people I know suggest they have been told not to talk, but I can't document that. KR <Snakker> How can we get a national forum to demonstrate to the American public and the establishment elites that the Air Force response to Roswell incident facts was simply ludicrous? <KRandle> I think the AF hurt itself with the "flying dummies" story. I think we can find all the proof we want and the attitude is going <KRandle> to be, this happened before I was born. Why should I care? <KRandle> That might be our problem. We're now dealing with history.KR <Nesssus> What got you interested in UFO's in the first place? and did you drift into research or "deliberately" took it up? <KRandle> I always blame my mother. <KRandle> She had an interest in science fiction and it isn't a far step into the realm of the UFO. <KRandle> I took up UFO research because I wanted to learn the truth for myself. KR <Philos> Kevin, Do you detect any effort to subvert the Roswell research, such as false wittnesses or such? I mean intentional subversion. *** KRandle has quit IRC (Read error to KRandle[202-154-186.ipt.aol.com]: Connection reset by peer_) <Nesssus> oh dear <TopGun__> uups... <Raine> im sure he will be back :) <Crow> he was doing great so far too <Crow> #ufo2 open for unmoderated disscussion <Crow> we will give him a few mins to redial he may well be back any sec *** KRandle (Crows_www@203-55-85.ipt.aol.com) has joined #ufo *** Raine sets mode: +o KRandle <Crow> welcome back Kevin <Raine> welcome back Kevin :) <KRandle> Hey folks. I was AOLed. That means they logged me off. <Benat2> re kev <Philos> Kevin, Do you detect any effort to subvert the Roswell research, such as false wittnesses or such? I mean intentional subversion. <KRandle> Ah, that was the question. No. I see people jumping on the bandwagon for the spotlight <KRandle> or to make some money. The government attempts are their silly final reports. I mean, they did a final report and then did a second final report. KR <buck7> Welcome Kevin. I wonder if you have any further information regarding the Shag Harbor incident. <KRandle> Chris Styles and Don Ledger have been doing a wonderful job with that. When someone asked earlier about good UFO crash cases, I should have put that at the top of the list. <KRandle> I know that they are continuing their work and have found some good documentation. KR <Snakker> What do you think Sheridan Cavitt's motivation is for not telling the truth about his experiences with Jesse Marcel in the Roswell incident? <KRandle> His government oath to keep the secret. <KRandle> I think that we have a lot of people who are honorable and who were told not to talk. They just don't because they said they wouldn't. KR <stu7> Kevin ...whats the best piece of physical (if any) evidence from Roswell, or any case, youve seen ? <KRandle> That's a tough one. <KRandle> I think that some of the photo cases, when couple to other evidence makes a persuasive case. McMinnville, Oregon in 1950, for example. KR <Dave_UFO> What role do you feel NASA plays in all of this? On the one hand they appear to be saying "yes" life does exist elsewhere possibly i.e. the Mars meteorite and lets not forget their willingness to rephotograph Cydonia, 'the face on Mars. <KRandle> I think NASA is trying to avoid the problems the AF faces with Project Blue Book. <KRandle> I think that NASA is working hard to keep their budget intact. And they do respond to public pressure as you noted. <KRandle> As for a role, I think the exploration of space will answer our questions if we don't get them answered down here. KR <pathfindr> have you ever spoken with any astronauts in regards to the rumors of ufo sightings? <KRandle> No. I heard the same stories and seen them, in public forums acknowledge some of it. <KRandle> KR <Snakker> Kevin, you were a helicopter pilot. Do you think that the so-called (silent) black helicopters are advanced military, or some alien thing, or a combination of both? <KRandle> Nope. KR <Nesssus> Kevin do you believe that alien technology/ufo's are kept at Area51? <KRandle> Nope. <KRandle> That is the simple answer. I think the next level of military technology is being developed there <KRandle> which is a good reason for the secrecy. We don't want our competitors in the world to know everything we're doing. KR <Dave_UFO> Black Budgets. We know the U.S. government has a black budget. Has a black budget list ever been released or obtained? <KRandle> Some of the really old stuff has been learned. The Manhattan Project, for example. <KRandle> The problem is that they are black budgets... some what 30-40 Billion dollars a year. You can <KRandle> cause a lot of trouble with that kind of money. KR <Snakker> What is the best strategy to force the smoking gun UFO evidence out of our government/military <KRandle> Be scientific in our approach to the questions. Let go of the cases where the evidence is against us. Mantell, for example, <KRandle> was killed chasing a balloon. The evidence for that is overwhelming. Let's stop suggesting that a death ray got him. That harms us. KR <buck7> Kevin, what is your take on the Mexico City video? Having just seen it myself for the first time along with some witness testimony, it looked compellingly real, if not a very excellent technical hoax. <KRandle> One of the segments I saw, with a flight of helicopters looked faked to me. You have an <KRandle> unknown object flash in front of your craft and there is no reaction, by any of the pilots. That bothered me. <KRandle> Someone should have reacted, unless the object was added to the video later. KR <pathfindr> Some "abductees" report a mission they are to perform at some future time. Is this a common trait or perception? KRandle> Many abductees have made mention of that. Some of the contactees said the same thing. KR <Dave_UFO> I work with a lot of people who are only too willing to point out to me newspaper & magazine articles etc. However I know some still smile unbelievingly. How have you approached people with your beliefs? <KRandle> I try to make sure that they understand that the physical evidence, in every form, that is demanded by <KRandle> science already exists. When Carl Sagan demand, "Where is the evidence?" My question to him would be <KRandle> tell me what you want and I'll tell you where it is.KR <Philos> Kevin, would you care to venture an opinion as to the nature of the visitors? Ets ? Other-dimensional beings? Spirits? Time-travellers? <KRandle> I believe that some UFO sightings represent extraterrestrial visitation. KR <Crow> Kevin how did you react when you heard the announcment of the Roswell crash dummies? <KRandle> LOL. Great deals of laughter. Hell, it wasn't even in the right time frame. KR <I-Knight> Kevin, do you believe any part of what Bob Lazar says about his work at Area 51? Stanton Friedman says he is a fraud but Bob Oeshler says he is genuine! <KRandle> Boy, caught me in a bad one here. I have to side with Stan on this one. I talked to a man who worked with Lazar at Los Alamos. Said he was a technician and not a scientist. KR <buck7> Kevin, I was referring to the saucer shaped craft which flew behind an apartment complex and then emerged. <KRandle> Back to Mexico. <KRandle> I guess I would have to take a long look at the Mexico. I was merely suggesting that some of the video needs to be reveiwed carefully. KR <Snakker> Do you know of any underground facility research besides that of Richard Sauder? We hear a lot of rumor about extensive underground facilities. Have you personally been in any (extensive) underground facilities in your military career? <KRandle> I was in a missile silo once. I was in Carlsbad Caverns twice. Yes, there are underground facilities, but I doubt that any of them have an extraterrestrial influence. KR <Crow> Kevin what are your personal thoughts on Alien abductions do you believe its happening or it is something else? <KRandle> There is no doubt that the people reporting abductions are experiencing something that is real to them. <KRandle>But we must remember that we do not have the proper corroborative detail. I believe that we will find an answer that has a mundane force behind it. KR <Nesssus> Kevin, whats your "favourite" case? <KRandle> Well, would you believe "Roswell?" <KRandle> Other good cases include the photographic part of the Lubbock Lights, Levelland, TX in 1957, the Montanta Movie <KRandle> of 1950. Gees, I'm stuck in the deep past... Oh, Lonnie Zamora in 1964. Bentwaters. The Belgium sightings. KR <VVazza> Kevin, do you know of any alien abduction cases that have involved mutilation? <KRandle> I was going to just say, "No." but I have heard of a couple through various other researchers. <KRandle> I don't find the evidence for them to be very persuasive thought.KR <Benat2> Kev: do you have a messagebourd of some type somewere were we can post questions or comments to you? <KRandle> Yes. Look at http://www.crystalsky.com <KRandle> KR <forgiette> Could you ask Kevin what he knows of UFO rods and what he thinks of them? <KRandle> Not much. KR <forgiette> what do you thinks of the sts-52 unknown objects. <KRandle> I haven't looked at that very closely. I did some work on STS-48 which was very interesting. <KRandle> Jack Kasher shared a look of his information with me on that. KR <etech> I am unfamiliar with the "Montana movie", are you aware of any government team sent to Malmstrom AFB to study UFO's? <KRandle> The Montana Movie was taken over Great Falls,`Montana in 1950. Shows two bright objects. The Air Force thought they might be airplanes landing at Great Falls AFB which was renamed Malmstrom. KR <VVazza> Kevin, it seems the majority of ufo sightings happen in USA, is there something special about usa, as apart from the rest of the world? <KRandle> Nope. I just think we might have a better reporting system. Lots of good stuff in South America and Europe. KR <Benat2> Without any cursing, whats your opinion of Richard Boylan, if any? <KRandle> People, I don't mean to be rude, but I'm going to have to bow out shortly. KR <Raine> No problem Kevin just a couple of questions left <Raine> if that is ok with you? <KRandle> Boylan lost his license to practice and rightly so. He was imprinting his own opinoins and beliefs on his clients. KR. <KRandle> Let's do it. KR <uranian> crow, question for Kevin, what does he think of the Dogon tribe re: Sirius being binary star <Crow> ok no more questions now folks <KRandle> I haven't taken a solid look at it. I find things like that interesting but haven't had a chance to do any real research. KR <Snakker> How does a military/government employee know that a given *event* is considered classified (as opposed to a document, which is marked or only shown in a classified environment)? How do government employees know they shouldn't discuss a UFO event? Does an officer always proactively tell them? <KRandle> If you are not directly involved in classified programs but are exposed to them, you are told <KRandle> that it is classified. So, if you see a UFO and the government doesn't want you to talk, they tell you. KR <VVazza> MIB was of course a fictional movie, but i have heard of similar govt agents working on undercover cover ups (not FBI) is this true? <KRandle> I think MIB was a wonderful movie. Do I think there is a real MIB phenomenon? Nope. KR <etech> FYI, there was a team there studying them about 1976 when I was there, but they were very stand-offish, not surprisingly. <Raine> This is the last one <KRandle> I've run into some people looking into it but never seen any good evidence. KR <Raine> Thank you Kevin for a very interesting and informative evening, it was a great pleasure meeting you. We appreciate the time and effort you have put in tonight, please feel free to pop in again sometime. Good luck with all you do. <Nesssus> Thank you very much for taking the time to be with us tonight Kevin it is GREATLY appreciated by all. <Crow> Can I just say a very big thank you to you Kevin, from all of us in #ufo. You have made a great guest and we are honoured to have had you join us. May I wish you all the very best of luck for the future and please keep up the very high standard of work we have been accustomed to expect from you. :) <Crow> we will now go into -m unmoderated mode <KRandle> Thank all of you for your kindness and interest in my work. If I can help, please let me know. KR *** K9 sets mode: -m <buck7> Thanks Kevin. Come back again. <Benat2> ya know for the record * ariella thanks KRandle for a great chat <Raine> yes please come back again Kevin, it was a real pleasure :) <KRandle> Sure will. Good night.KR <Benat2> cya <Benat2> have a good sleep <Crow> thanks kevin bye <forgiette> nite krandle <EbE> Bye <pharmcat> Thanks Kevin! <Alien> Oh one last thing before you go. BYE!! <Benat2> oh ya and Happy Easter <Raine> Nite KRandle <Snakker> Thanks for answering our questions. Hope to see you back sometime. * stu7 waves to KR <tom1> Thanks keep up the good work ! <^Darren> Thank you Kevin. *** KRandle has quit IRC (KRandle) Session Close: Sun Apr 12 00:26:53 1998 United Kingdom News =================== [UK 1]****** uk.ufo.nw says: A report from last year but the Cornish coast of Britain continues to have sightings. Source: Cornish Guardian Publish Date: 13th February 1997 UFO shock for student DRAMA student Matt Punter claims he had to slam on his car brakes after being confronted by a UFO near his Pensilva home in South East Cornwall. The 18-year-old was travelling home late at night when he became aware of something directly over his car. "I suddenly had to duck and slam on the brakes," he said. "My first thought was that a plane was crashing in the road in front of me. "Then it stopped about 10 metres further down the road. It was four different coloured lights in a square with no substance to it at all. "The highest one was about eight metres in the air. It stopped there only for one second. I felt like it was looking at me while I was looking at it. Then it just went." Matt said: "I always thought people who claimed to see UFO's were a bit sad. But now I know what they were on about." [UK 2]****** Source: Daily Mail newspaper (UK) Publish Date: Monday 27th April 1998 RAF track mystery craft over north sea - and fighters can't catch it 24,000mph UFO buzzes Britain By DAVID DERBYSHIRE Science Correspondent THE RAF has tracked a UFO `as big as a battleship' off the coast of Britain, military sources revealed yesterday. They said the massive craft was tracked flying in a zig-zag pattern at 17,000mph over the North Sea. It then accelerated to 24,000mph and zoomed off towards the Atlantic. The Dutch air force also tracked the UFO, but two F-16 fighters scrambled to intercept the object were unable to keep up, it is claimed. RAF officials are said to be baffled by the object, spotted by the Ministry of Defence long-range listening station on Fylingdales moor in North Yorkshire. `It was definitely under control, judging by the various manoeuvres executed,' said a source. `It appeared to be triangular and was around the size of a battleship (about 900ft long).' Radar records of the craft are due to be presented to science and military experts from around the world, who will examine how to exploit space for milltary purposes at a conference at RAF College, Cranwell, Lincolnshire, in June. Other tapes of the UFO - thought to have been made during the last two years are being withheld because they give too to much information about the radar base's scanning ability. However, military chiefs may release a second series of tapes, reported to show 12 UFOs changing shape in mid-flight. While the `battleship' UFO is most likely to be an experimental aircraft or a sighting caused by a freak weather effect, UFO watchers believe it is further evidence that the Earth is being visited by alien craft. The popularity of TV series such as the X-Files has rekindled interest in flying saucers and conspiracy theories in recent years. A spokesman for the Fortean Times, the journal devoted to UFOs, psychic phenomena and the paranormal, said: `The vast majority of strange objects seen in the sky have a more down-to-earth explanation. But most UFO investigators would be very interested in seeing these tapes.' The latest theory gaining popularity among some dedicated UFO watchers is that the military deliberately release stories about UFOs as a 'smokescreen' - and that witnesses are really seeing top secret experimental aircraft. The base at RAF Fylingdales has been watching the skies since the end of the Cold War. A large pyramid shaped, 360 degree radar has now replaced the gigantic landmark 'golfballs' tracking system. The base has concentrated on tracking satellites and pieces of junk circling the Earth. -[continued in part 2]-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 00:08:28 GMT Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 16:20:36 -0400 Subject: Re: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:22:16 +0200 >Subject: CA 'Skyquake' Case Solved >This is to make sure that everyone is aware that this "SKYQUAKE" >has turned out to be sonic booms from the space shuttle landing >at Vandenburg. Apparently its flight path went right over the >cities that were calling in to >me at the 911 Center... You mean Edwards AFB. That makes sense. I was used to the double sonic boom over Central Florida when I was on the NASA Shuttle launch team. -- Roger R. Prokic Telecom Design Lead Mars Surveyor Program 2001 Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA - sent from a PalmPilot Professional -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 Re: The Paradigm Clock From: ufotruth@ix.netcom.com [William Hand] Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 19:06:56 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 16:18:52 -0400 Subject: Re: The Paradigm Clock >From: UFOLAWYER1 <UFOLAWYER1@aol.com> [Peter Gersten] >Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 10:28:39 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Paradigm Clock >>>From: KRandle993 <KRandle993@aol.com> [Kevin Randle] >>>Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 12:02:36 EDT >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Paradigm Clock > ><snip> > >>Anyway, I vote that we move the hands much farther from >>midnight to represent the real state of affairs. More like 9AM. You may that is a little severe BUT have we had even ONE LITTLY TINY admission from even ONE government/military agency that even a "COUPLE" UFO sightings "could have been maybe" something "unearthly"? NOPE! The coverup continues and we are not anywhere near midnight. We all need to face that reality. If you don't like that reality then we need to do something about it.... Best Regards, William
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 Re: 'Alien Interview' Available as .mpg or .mov? From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 23:36:04 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 16:09:15 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Alien Interview' Available as .mpg or .mov? >Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 00:01:31 -0700 >From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Alien Interview Available as .mpg or .mov? >I received some questions concerning the alledged "Alien >Interview" that showed up on video. But to be honest, I cannot >make any statements concerning that footage if I haven't had the >chance to view it myself. >I know it's available on the net as a .ram file (RealVideo) wich >my comp can't handle. The video is stil not available here in >holland. The only thing we saw so far is the same picture over >and over again. Hi Andy Got the url of the RAM movie file? Please --- People can have it any colour, as long as its black! Sean Jones Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm Research page--http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 Re: Ricardo's Saga From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <pharaoh@web2000.net> Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 19:44:47 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 16:11:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Ricardo's Saga > Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 08:24:40 -0700 > From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Ricardo's Saga > >Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 19:02:46 -0700 > >From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <pharaoh@web2000.net> > >To: *UFO UpDates* <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Ricardo's Saga >> Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 08:24:40 -0700 >> From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Ricardo's Saga >> Dear Virgilio: >> I visited the "geocities" site address below, but could not find >> anything about the Mendoza abduction case you mentioned. >> Is there some special way to get the simple basics? Year, date, >> and location? Dear Larry Hatch, Under INVESTIGATION you will find RICARDO'S SAGA. Date of the Experience: First abduction; January 23, 1981 at 8:00 PM. Second Encounter; January 23, 1982, exactly a year later. Place: Mendoza, Argentina. War in the Falkland Island: April, 1982. The investigation on December 5, 1982. Hope that answer your questions. Please, try again for the story and photos. This is an unknown investigation done in association with the late Dr. J. Allen Hynek . Very truly yours, Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo MIAMI UFO CENTER
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 Re: The Paradigm Clock From: ufotruth@ix.netcom.com [William Hand] Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 19:03:47 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 16:21:37 -0400 Subject: Re: The Paradigm Clock >Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 11:53:59 -0500 >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Paradigm Clock >For me the midnight gongs, bells, whistles and chimes have >sounded, and continue to sound -- I've seen the damn things! >Place the hands at midnight! That is NOT TRUE! The hands should NOT be ANYWHERE near midnight because the UFO/ET coverup is STILL going STRONG! There are NO indications that it is "crumbling" at any substantial rate. Heck, the military can give out ridiculous reports like their "Roswell Report: Case Closed" and the media just believes whatever they are told by the government/military regardless of whether it makes sence or is a flat out LIE. You may have seen a UFO. Lots of people have seen UFOs/ETs. But that is NO reason to say that the hands should be on midnight because not matter how many UFOs/ETs people have seen the military is STILL denying that the sightings were of anything other than weather balloons, flares, atomospheric inversions, missles, etc. The coverup is going strong. I wish the coverup was crumbling and we could place the hands on midnight. But it is not. It is going to take something massive to expose the coverup. Either we all need to get our butts in gear and do something to expose this coverup or the UFOs/ETs themselves better do something major like have another phoenix but this time during DAYLIGHT. Best Regards, William
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 Re: The Paradigm Clock From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 04:04:12 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 16:46:02 -0400 Subject: Re: The Paradigm Clock >Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 11:53:59 -0500 >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Paradigm Clock >> From: UFOLAWYER1 <UFOLAWYER1@aol.com> [Peter Gersten] >> Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 10:28:39 EDT >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Paradigm Clock >> >>From: KRandle993 <KRandle993@aol.com> [Kevin Randle] >> >>Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 12:02:36 EDT >> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Paradigm Clock >> <snip> >> >Anyway, I vote that we move the hands much farther from >> >midnight to represent the real state of affairs. >> I agree...let's say about 11:00....a.m. >> Peter >For me the midnight gongs, bells, whistles and chimes have >sounded, and continue to sound -- I've seen the damn things! >Place the hands at midnight! >Lehmberg@snowhill.com Hi Al, hi All, It's more like 3am on that score Al. Bear in mind that Kevin and Stan are on mountain time so they're a few hours behind the rest of us. <G> But if I'm not mistaken I think the "Paradigm clock" (whatever the hell that is) is set to 'disclosure time.' In terms of disclosure both Kevin and Stan are correct. It doesn't look like the gubbamint is -anywhere near- to any open policy or disclosure on the UFO/ET issue. On -that- count the clock should be reset to "Aussie" time. 3 AM yesterday! Paradigm Research Group? It seems to me that "paradigm research" would involve a awful lot of waiting. <G> Too sedentary for me man. Some people just have way too much time on their hands! <VBG> John Velez
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 Re: Scientists at Odds with Jeffrey From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com> [Robert Gates] Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 03:57:42 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 16:48:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientists at Odds with Jeffrey > Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 08:25:08 -0400 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Scientists at Odds with Jeffrey <snip> > All well and good, but too little too late. Jeffrey has done his > damage and crawled back under his rock. What can we accomplish > now? The issue is dead. > Bob While I didn't agree with Jeffrey, I would suggest that he has not done near the damage that the Roswell witnesses did by changing their storys. Last number I saw was 5-7 different crash sites all from people who were claiming some kind of first hand knowledge. You have Glenn "I can't name the nurse" Dennis. You have Bond Johnson whom is now claiming to be the "Roswell photographer" when in fact he is the Fort Worth photog. Also Johnson is now telling a different story then what he told on tape years ago. Can you imagine the massive amout of damage that would have been done at any Congressional hearings when whichever party the opposition would have come from would have showcased, and expounded upon the differences, and used them as an illustration as to why Roswell was trumped up and phony...and could have made a fairly good case of it to the general public whose only care in life is beer and monday night football. To the new comers following Roswell, I would suggest that you put more credence on the "original storys the witnesses told as opposed to the recants, retells, and resworn statements as the witnesses got on the fame and money wagon. As for the future Roswell has become a dead issue and won't revive until a) A new witness comes forward. b) The government releases information about Roswell. I suspect neither is likely in the immediate future. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 Re: The Paradigm Clock From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 08:01:49 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 16:52:39 -0400 Subject: Re: The Paradigm Clock >From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia] >Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 16:28:25 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Paradigm Clock >Too bad there aren't more positive minded people like >Steve Bassett on this list. The amount of people that >are willing to take UFOs seriously IS increasing. The >tide is turning and things are moving along. Imminent >disclosure? Don't know. Great progress? I would have >to say yes. >Unfortunately, lots of the posters on this list wait until >they can attack somebody elses thoughts, then they >post a message. Talk about negative thinkers. >Oh yeah, I forgot, you guys are realists and I'm part >of the believer group. Keep up that great attitude guys! >We'll never get anywhere with all those negative thoughts. >Now I sound like my father. That's not a bad thing. >Keep up the great work everybody. Thank god for tireless >workers like Bassett, Greer et all. At least they're trying. >Joe Murgia Us realists want the truth just as much as you believers, Joe. We just don't see any signs of great revelations any time soon. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 1897 Phantom Airship and "Captain Pegasus" From: "Kenny Young" <task@fuse.net> Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 07:02:24 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 16:51:36 -0400 Subject: 1897 Phantom Airship and "Captain Pegasus" The following newspaper articles from 1897 pertain to reported AIRSHIP sightings in/near the Cincinnati, Ohio area. The articles are posted at the website address listed below. ______________________________________________________________ "Here's The Latest" Airship Passes Over City Of Newport 'A Mysterious Message' Dropped From The Skies By Captain Pegasus The Kentucky Post April 24, 1897 Page 3 Numerous reports were rife in Newport Saturday that the airship had been seen passing over Newport Friday at 8 p.m. Mrs. Pilling of 18 West Third Street, says she saw the ship. It was cigar-shaped and showed a bright light. Miss L. Remme, artist and sister of Ed Rmme, cashier of the German National Bank - residing at 22 West Third Street, found in her yard Saturday morning a little muslin bag filled with sand, containing a note which read: "Passed over Newport at 40 miles an hour. Traveled 200 miles since 4:30 Friday afternoon: Expect to be in Nashville Sunday at 3:30. "CAPTAIN PGASUS." End of article ******* Comment: This article depicts two different spellings for the supposed author of the alleged note. At the top of the article, in captions, the spelling is listed as 'Captain Pegasus.' At the end of the article, the spelling is listed as 'Captain Pgasus.' This could have been a spelling/typo mistake by the reporter from the 1897 newspaper, however I didn't make any discretionary conclusions as I simply re-typed the article as was. If anyone has additional details about the 'Captain Pegasus' reference, or if this has been heard of in other airship reports, I would be terribly curious to acquire more info ********** ============ "AIRSHIP" Said To Have Been Seen Passing Over This City Last Night The Cincinnati Enquirer May 5, 1897 A number of people on Garfield Place saw the airship last night about 9 o'clock, and are willing to make affidavit that they have sighted the mysterious navigator that has been creating so much excitement over the country. Dr. Louis Domhoff, 112 Garfield Place, made a drawing of the light, which he describes as egg-shaped, red in color and appearing as though a portion of it was covered with a curtain, the rays escaping in the center and at each end. It came from the direction of Price Hill and passed to a southeasterly direction, disappearing in about five minutes, and, so far as he was able to approximate, covered a distance of about 20 miles in that time, moving in a zigzag course, first up, then down. Conductor J.C. Gaupel, on the Monmouth street car line, also saw it. W.J. Klein, attorney in the Mitchell Building, and Fred Porter, of the Methodist Book Concern, and a number of others say they saw and watched the curious aeronaut. End of article ============ HE SAW IT A Covington Man Wants To Make An Affidavit That He Beheld the Airship Hovering Over Eleventh Street The Kentucky Post May 18, 1897 Page 5 Mike Sheridan, a well-known resident of Eleventh Street, came into 'Squire Wheeler's office, on Scott Street, Tuesday morning and offered to make an affidavit that he had seen the "airship" Tuesday about 11 p.m. sailing over the corner of Eleventh and Scott Streets. Mr. Sheridan says that the airship he saw was a cigar-shaped machine, and that with its sails spread it presented a triangular outline. According to his best reckoning, the ship was about 15 feet long and only 50 feet above him. Sheridan furthermore states that he is certain he heard the working of its machinery. Mr. Sheridan is a middle-aged man of temperate habits and is not addicted to the use of stogies. He is a life long resident of Covington and possesses an untarnished reputation for veracity. End of article -- UFO Research http://home.fuse.net/task/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 Statement From Nick Redfern And Irene Bott From: Darren Danks <darren@darrend.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 01:34:09 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 16:40:48 -0400 Subject: Statement From Nick Redfern And Irene Bott STATEMENT FROM NICK REDFERN AND IRENE BOTT, 9 MAY 1998. Over the course of the last few days, a series of statements have been put out by Tim Matthews in which it has been mentioned that we 'got' Tim 'barred' from speaking at the Cornwall conference this coming August. This is nonsense! This is the situation: In the latter part of 1997, we penned an article for Alien Encounters magazine (see the Christmas 1997 issue for the complete article, or contact Nick for a copy of the text of the article) on the so-called 'flying triangles'. We had discovered at the Public Record Office at Kew that there were a number of reports on file of huge (in some cases 200 feet in length) 'triangles' seen over the United Kingdom in the period 1952-65. In view of this, we concluded that, in our opinion, not all of the 'triangles' were (a) a recent phenomenon; and/or (b) the results of secret aircraft testing. As a result of the publication of the article (which, in fact, referred to Tim as being 'respected' and we actually praised his research!) an item appeared in one of Eric Morris's newsletters commenting in an unwarranted fashion with regard to the article. In view of this, we took a decision to disassociate ourselves from Eric. Several months ago, Tim sent a letter to Irene which contained comments which both of us considered unwarranted and unacceptable. As with Eric, we then took a decision to sever all ties with Tim, too. Now to the crux of the issue: the Cornwall conference. We are entitled to mix with whom we please (as, of course, is anyone -even Tim and Eric) and we choose not to be in the company of Eric or Tim. Therefore, when Nick was asked if he was willing to speak at the Cornwall conference, he said 'Yes', but reiterated our stance re Eric and Tim: We will not speak at events where they are speaking nor will we attend as audience members at talks and conferences where they are speaking. Now, our comments to the Cornwall group re the above amounted to no more than a 45-second passing statement. Moreover, Nick does not know the organiser, and has never spoken with him prior to the phone call to Nick inviting him to speak. In view of this, the idea that we could have some form of sway over the Cornwall group and could somehow influence them as to who they should have on their speaker list is absurd! We are not that influential! Furthermore, if the Cornwall group want Tim to speak at their conference they are quite at liberty to invite him, but we would not even consider attending in any capacity whatsoever. Ironically, in the past Irene has invited Tim and Eric to speak on several occasions before her group and they have readily accepted these offers and neither of us have any bias regarding the research of Tim, Eric or indeed anyone. We are very open-minded on the subject and believe there is room in the subject for all manner of theories provided that matters are addressed in a professional manner. In conclusion, then, these are the facts: (a) For personal reasons stemming from the situation arising from our 'flying triangle' article in Alien Encounters, we do not wish to have contact with, or be in the company of, either Tim or Eric. (b) None of this has a bearing on Tim's research. In fact, Nick actually agrees with some of Tim's conclusions. Moreover, if anyone has seen Nick's new book, The FBI Files, you will see a chapter in there on Nazi-designed flying saucers and Nick states that in his opinion the Nazis were designing and building such craft! So much for the idea that we are only interested in and believe in ET-based UFO technology! (c) In view of our stance, if a conference organiser decides to book Nick and not Eric or Tim (or, indeed, Eric and Tim but not Nick), then that is up to the conference organiser and not us. To reiterate: with regard to the Cornwall conference, Nick doesn't even know the organiser, let alone have the ability to sway his views on who he should have speaking for him! (d) We are quite sure that in view of our stance, some conference organisers will decide to book Tim as opposed to us. That's fine- we have no problems with Tim or Eric airing their views. We won't be throwing tantrums about it or posting further E-mails saying that our research is being stifled. (e) With regard to Tim's comment that 'maybe a trip to the next Staffordshire UFO Group meeting is called for' , Irene would like to suggest that he saves his petrol expenses and uses it to serve a better purpose in his research, as he would be most unwelcome, will not be admitted, and that should any of her group wish to hear him talk, they are quite at their liberty to travel to his quote/unquote 'well-attended Lancashire UFO Society lectures' . (f) Despite all that has gone on regarding the above, at no time in the past week or so did Tim contact either of us to determine the facts behind any statements, inaccuracies etc re our stance regarding Tim, Eric, the flying triangles or the Cornwall conference - or indeed any conference. (g) In a conversation with Dave Gillham (the organiser of the Cornwall conference) only two days ago, we were informed that they were not even contemplating having Tim on the bill in the first place. Also, we were advised by Dave that he would be E- mailing Tim and advising him of this. (h) Irene is unaware of being 'not very popular with anyone in East Anglia, or groups in Kent' and does not understand the meaning behind this. Does anyone else? (i) Also, Irene has had only spoken to Max Burns on three occasions in total, is not therefore in 'regular weekly contact' with him, as Tim states, nor is Irene 'acting as a fixer' - whatever the hell one of those is!! (j) Re the East Anglian UFO footage of David Spoor: Irene and Nick are friends of David; however, David has an agent to handle the footage (Jonathan Downes) and therefore all dealings re the footage are the domain of David and Jon and not Irene! (k) Finally, as we have better things to do with our time, this statement will be the first and last official statement we will make on the above matters. For some time, we ignored the ill- feeling which was coming our way, but now feel the time is right to make a stand. For those of you who have read Tim's comments re this entire controversy we would say this: now you have our side of the story. Judge for yourself. Anything else put out by Tim re the above will be ignored by us from now on. NOTE: over the last few days we have received numerous letters, calls, faxes, e-mails and personal visits from people in the UFO field supporting our stance. To all those, we say thank you. IMPORTANT: This is our only statement on these matters, Any additional comments which may or may not be made by others which in any way mention the above are not sanctioned by us in any way shape or form, and will be the personal comments of the person(s) concerned.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 Re: 'Alien Interview' Available as .mpg or .mov? From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 08:07:03 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 16:53:44 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Alien Interview' Available as .mpg or .mov? >Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 00:01:31 -0700 >From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Alien Interview Available as .mpg or .mov? >Hi people, >I received some questions concerning the alledged "Alien >Interview" that showed up on video. But to be honest, I cannot >make any statements concerning that footage if I haven't had the >chance to view it myself. >So my questions are these: >Is there anybody out there who knows if there's a .mpg or a >.mov-version of that footage? I've had it on video for some time. I have to say that I am completely underwhelmed by it. It is so dark and murky that it is impossible to draw any conclusions from it. Could be an "alien", could be a puppet. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 19 From: Masinaigan <Masinaigan@aol.com> [Joseph Trainor] Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 12:09:39 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 16:55:47 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 19 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 3, Number 19 May 10, 1998 Editor: Joseph Trainor MYSTERY BOOMS PUZZLE SOUTHERN CALIFORNIANS Mysterious booms or "skyquakes" rattled thousands of homes within a large area 30 miles (50 kilometers) southeast of Los Angeles. According to Ryan H. Turner, a communications dispatcher for Orange County, police and fire departments began receiving phone calls around 10 p.m. The calls ranged from Norco and Corona in Riverside County to Pomona in eastern Los Angeles County, 25 miles (40 kilometers) to the northwest. Turner reported that residents "were startled by two large noises that rattled" walls and windows. "In one case reported directly to me, around the door in an 8,000-square foot home began to vibrate rapidly." Callers described the two sounds as "explosions, earthquake noises, window-rattling noises and thuds." The sounds occurred about "five minutes apart." Turner reported that KNBC-TV in Los Angeles attributed the sounds to "military exercises at Camp Pendleton and El Toro," both bases of the U.S. Marine Corps. "I personally called these two bases and was told that there was absolutely nothing pn this end that had caused those noises," he added. The following day, Turner was told that the booms had been caused by the space shuttle Columbia landing at Vandenburg Air Force Base. But Michael Lindemann, editor of CNI News, pointed out that the shuttle had landed earlier at Cape Canaveral, Florida. The cause of the "sky booms" remains unexplained. (Email Interview) MYSTERIOUS GREEN LIGHTS SEEN OVER HALF MOON BAY On Monday, May 4, 1998, around 11:30 p.m., residents of Half Moon Bay and El Granada, California spotted three mysterious green lights hovering just offshore. Half Moon Bay (population 8,886) and El Granada (population 4,426) are on Highway 1 about 60 miles (96 kilometers) south of San Francisco. Reports were also received from two or three residents living on Skyline Boulevard, north of Redwood City. According to Larry Hatch, "observers" on a tugboat in Half Moon Bay "also saw the lights for 30 minutes. The tugboat operator described them as green 'stoplights' (traffic lights--J.T.) He also said they were arranged in a straight vertical row. (Many thanks to Larry Hatch and Errol Bruce-Knapp for this news story.) DUTCH UFOLOGISTS DISPUTE STORY OF NORTH SEA CHASE Ufologists in the Netherlands disputed last week's reports in the London Daily Mail and Daily Telegraph of a UFO chase over the North Sea. According to the reports published in both British newspapers, the phased-array radar station at RAF Fylingdales in North Yorkshire picked up a UFO 900 feet (273 meters) long flying over the North Sea. RAF jet interceptors were sent after it. At the same time, two F-16 jet fighters of the Nederlandse Luchtmacht (Netherlands Air Force) took off in pursuit. The F-16s reportedly encountered the UFO over the North Sea. The mammoth triangular object then increased its speed to 24,000 miles per hour and headed northeast towards the Atlantic Ocean. Andy Denne of the Netherlands UFO group A.U.R.A. reported, "We have checked our source in the Dutch air force, and we can be rather sure by now that the F-16s sent to intercept never even took off." "We also double-checked with the Dutch military defense radar station at Nieuw-Millingen. They also assured us nothing was visible on radar." A.U.R.A. members and other Dutch ufologists telephoned the Air Traffic Control center at Schipol International Airport in Amsterdam. Radar operators there "saw nothing on their radars during the past couple of months." "So our conclusion is that there was no North Sea UFO, at least as described by the British press," Denne reported. "Especially since the Dutch air force is not as tight-lipped as their British and American colleagues." (Many thanks to Andy Denne of A.U.R.A. and Errol Bruce-Knapp for this story.) V-SHAPED UFO SIGHTED IN SOUTHERN BRAZIL On Friday, May 1, 1998, at 8:30 p.m., residents of Guarulhos, a cidade satelite (suburb) of Sao Paulo in southern Brazil, spotted a large V-shaped UFO hovering and flying overhead. The OVNI (Portuguese acronym for UFO) was described as "a single object with bright lights arranged in a V-formation." Eyewitness Humberto L., age 58, said, "I was at my home in Parque Renato Maia, a barrio near O Centro (the city's center--J.T.) when I looked up and saw the strange lights." "The object flew slowly to the north, very high, in the direction of the Serra da Cantareira," he added, "The lights were bright, opaque and evenly spaced." Several witnesses at Aeroporto de Combica reported seeing "a rotating OVNI moving from east to west across the sky." Alberto L., age 23, saw the V-shaped UFO, which he described as "a bright object. The object had lights and gave off a trail of mist or smoke. I perceived clearly that it was a single object." The V-shaped UFO "disappeared in the distance after several minutes." (Muito obrigado a Roberto S. Ferreira por eso caso.) WEIRD DOUBLE HOMICIDE REPORTED IN PERU On April 8, 1998, the police in Pisac, a small town in the Andes of Peru, received a phone call from an anonymous informant, claiming that he had stumbled across the bodies of two dead men. As he hung up, the agitated caller shouted, "Pishtacos!" The pishtaco is a legendary creature of Andean folklore, whose image appears on the ceramics of the ancient Nazca and Sipan cultures. It is reputed to be a demon in the form of a human, which strips the victim's body of all adipose tissue. Investigating police searched the town and found two dead men, both unidentified, "with all of their muscles exposed and not a single gram of fat on them." On April 9, 1998, the Policia Nacional del Peru (PNP) moved the two bodies to the nearest large city, Cuzco, approximately 47 kilometers (24 miles) to the southwest. The autopsies were performed by Dr. Oscar Gallegos of the PNP's Forensic Medical Department. According to the autopsy report, "The victims showed characteristics compatible to death from bleeding. There were no signs of torture, beating nor of having been struck by a knife or a bullet. Cause of death was cardiac arrest due to excessive bleeding. No skin or subcutaneous cellular tissue was found. The rate of decomposition was slight." Pisac is in the Andes approximately 665 kilometers (425 miles) east of Lima, the capital of Peru. (Muchas gracias a Raul Rios y Scott Corrales para esas noticias.) CROP CIRCLES APPEAR IN GERMANY On Thursday, April 30, 1998, a kornkreise (crop circle) appeared in a field of oilseed rape in Angeln, in northern Germany. The circle was discovered by Wolfgang Schoppe, who said it appeared "on a foggy and rainy night." The site was investigated by German cerealogist Eckard Weber of Forsungs- Gesellschaft Kornkreise e.V. (FGK) At the site, Weber "did not find any footprints in and around the field, although the ground was muddy. He reported that the circle appeared to be 'genuine.'" The following day, Friday, May 1, 1998, Clemens Richter spotted a crop circle in a field outside Burghasungen, a suburb of Kassel, about 280 kilometers (175 miles) southwest of Berlin. At 3 p.m., Richter returned to the field with Jan Schwochow for a more detailed examination. They found "no tracks of any off-road vehicles" in the field. They described the circle as "a formation of a large circle 7 meters (23 feet) in diameter, with a striking circle in the middle with a diameter of 1.2 meters (4 feet)." FGK's investigation is continuing. (Danke schoen zum FGK) UFOs REMAIN ACTIVE ALL AROUND AUSTRALIA On April 23, 1998, at 7 p.m., Bob Waterman was at his home in Melbourne's northern suburbs when he spotted a UFO. "I was looking in the direction of the southeast when I saw what I thought were planes. In particular, two were in a longitudinal position and were about a foot (25 centimeters) apart, one at 3 oclock (position), the other at 9 o'clock. While in the sky, the light at the 3 o'clock position moved in a clockwise circle and stopped at 9 o'clock, and the one at 9 o'clock moved and stopped at 3 o'clock, both in parallel time. They stayed there for about two minutes. And then the one at 3 o'clock moved in a straight line to the right and the one at 9 o'clock moved in a straight line to the left. Having thought back on it, the lights were too perfect and too round to be stars, so I am at a complete loss to explain what they are." (Many thanks to John Hayes for this story.) On April 22, 1998, at 6:40 p.m., a retired Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) captain in Queensland "was walking his dog, accompanied by his grandson, when a huge light appeared in the north flying at phenomenal speed. When it passed overhead, he claimed that light from underneath lit up the surrounding area and would have been 20 feet across. It appeared to pass under an airliner coming in to Maroochydore Airport. As it passed over the Glass House Mountains, it then became a ball of light emitting red, green and blue lights. It seemed to have left a long white trail behind it. This person reports that it was a clear night with no clouds in the sky." (Many thanks to Glennys Mackay of Queensland UFO Network, QUFON, for this report. See Filer's Files #17 for 1998. Thanks also to George A. Filer, Eastern Director of MUFON.) On Saturday, May 2, 1998, at 5:40 p.m., "a silver gray disc was observed hovering 100 meters (330 feet)" above a family hiking in the remote Terra-Blugga National Park in Victoria state. "The UFO hovered 100 meters overhead for about four minutes before taking off. The UFO had a large dome on top and three oval-shaped bulbuls, or ball-like protrusions, underneath. The object emitted a low-frequency hum or buzz that could only be heard while directly underneath." (Many thanks to Ross Dowe of Australia/New Zealand 24-Hour UFO Hotline for this report.) SPHERICAL UFO SIGHTED IN EASTERN OREGON On Friday, May 1, 1998, at 4:21 p.m., Wayne R. of Harper, Oregon sighted "a 4-to-8 foot round UFO moving through the sky" southeast of Vale, Ore. (population 1,491), a town at the junction of Highways 20 and 26, located about 50 miles (80 kilometers) west of Boise, Idaho. Wayne described the UFO as "light tan with spots or markings, no lights." He added that what caught his attention was its unusual movement. "It flew at about a 30-degree angle from behind a ridge 80 feet above the ground, stopped, moved up and down rapidly, and then flew away at a very high rate of speed." "No smoke or trail was visible" during Wayne's four-second sighting. (Many thanks to Tim Hagemeister of NACOMM for this report.) SAN LUIS VALLEY REPORTS NEW CATTLE MUTILATIONS Two new cattle mutilations were reported this week, one in Colorado and the other in New Mexico. According to Christopher O'Brien, investigator and author of THE MYSTERIOUS VALLEY, a couple, "June and Virgil Walkley were returning home from a friend's house when they happened upon a 'mutilated bull' which 'appeared to be dropped on a fence line.'" about 12 miles (19 kilometers) east of Alamosa, Colorado. "The animal, which turned out to be a cow, had apparently been dead for three or four days," O'Brien reported. "It was lying on its back directly over an old fence line that extends north to south on the western edge of the San Luis Valley Estates, 12 miles east of Alamosa." Alamosa (population 13,617) is on Colorado Highways 180 and 265 about 140 miles (224 kilometers) southwest of Denver. (Many thanks to Chris O'Brien for this report.) On Sunday, May 3, 1998, a cow was found dead and mutilated in a remote mountain pasture 10 miles (16 kilometers) southeast of Questa, New Mexico (population 1,707). The cow, "which had been dead for about a day...was missing its eye and its tongue and suffered massive hemorraghing, investigators say." John Paternoster, district attorney for Taos, N.M., said authorities would investigate the case as a cattle mutilation--"one of a series of unexplained animal deaths in New Mexico in the past 25 years." "Samples of the cow's tissue, blood and organs will be analyzed at an Albuquerque laboratory, he said." "'No apparent cause of death was immediately visible,' Paternoster said, 'I'm not certain what we're looking for (but) we have since the beginning been taking these deaths seriously.'" "A team of law enforcement officers" visited the crime scene in the Moreno Valley, "along with Gabe Valdez, an agent for the National Institute of Discovery Science, a privately-funded Las Vegas, Nev. organization that investigates paranormal phenomena." Valdez is a former New Mexico state trooper who has studied many cattle mutilation cases over the years. (See the Albuquerque, N.M. Journal for May 4, 1998. Many thanks to Errol Bruce-Knapp for this story.) STUDENTS AND TEACHERS SEE A UFO IN SRI LANKA A UFO flap has broken out in Sri Lanka, an island nation in the Indian Ocean. According to the London Sunday Times of May 3, 1998, a saucer-shaped UFO was seen in Bandarawela and Diyatawala. "According to the principal of Adikaram Primary School in Bandarawela, several schoolboys and teachers told her they had seen the UFO." "Grade 5 student Harsha Ellawellagadera said he did see the object at around 6:30 a.m. Thursday, April 30, while several others reported that they had seen it at different times." "If schoolboys may be prone to some imagination, then the district medical officer of Diyatawala, (Dr.) Kemani Pushpakumara, will contradict the skeptics. She said she had seen the UFO flying over her garden a few days ago. Frightened by it, she ran into the house and told her husband to close the door." "A driver in the area also reported he had seen the UFO." (See the Sunday Times for May 3, 1998, story by Chris Kamalendran, and Filer's Files #18 for 1998. Many thanks to Asoka Livanage and George A. Filer of MUFON for this story.) from the UFO Files... 1897: ARKANSAS DEPUTIES MEET SOME ALIENS One of the strangest close encounters of the "airship era" took place 101 years ago, on May 6, 1897, near Blue Ouachita Mountain, just northwest of Hot Springs, Arkansas. Constable John J. Sumpter Jr. and Deputy Sheriff John McLemore of Garland County left Hot Springs on horseback to investigate reports of cattle rustling. They rode north on what is now Highway 7 to Jessieville. Here is their story in their own words: "While riding northwest from this city (Hot Springs) on the night of May 6, 1897, we noticed a brilliant light high in the heavens. Suddenly it disappeared and we said nothing about it, as we were looking for parties (suspects--J.T.) and did not want to make any noise." "After riding four or five miles around through the hills, we again saw the light, which appeared to be much nearer the earth. We stopped our horses and watched it coming down, until all at once it disappeared behind another hill. We rode on about half a mile further, when our horses refused to go farther." "Almost a hundred yards distant we saw two persons moving around with lights. Drawing our Winchesters--for we were now thoroughly aroused as to the importance of the situation--we demanded, 'Who is that, and what are you doing?'" "A man with a long dark beard came forth with a lantern in his hand, and on being informed who we were, proceeded to tell us that he and two others--a young man and a woman--were traveling through the country in an airship." "We could plainly distinguish the outlines of the vessel, which was cigar-shaped and almost sixty feet long, and looking just like the cuts (woodcuts instead of photographs were used in newspapers prior to 1900--J.T.) that have appeared in the papers recently." "It was dark and raining and the young man was filling a big sack with water about thirty yards away, and the woman was particular to keep back in the dark. She was holding an umbrella over her head. The man with the whiskers invited us to take a ride, saying that he could take us where it was not raining." "We told him we preferred to get wet." "Asking the man why the brilliant light was turned on and off so much, he replied that the light was so powerful that it consumed a great deal of his motive power. He said he would like to stop off in Hot Springs for a few days and take the hot baths, but his time was limited and he could not. He said they were going to wind up at Nashville, Tennessee, after thoroughly seeing the country. Being in a hurry, we left, and upon our return, about forty minutes later, nothing was to be seen. We did not hear or see the airship when it departed." (See the Helena, Ark. Weekly World for May 13, 1897. Reprinted in OPERATION TROJAN HORSE by John A. Keel, Manor Books, New York, N.Y. 1970, page 72.) (Editor's Comment: According to Martin Walker, author of THE PRESIDENT WE DESERVE, James Eldridge Cassidy, President Clinton's maternal grandfather, was born in this area of Arkansas in 1898, a year after the Sumpter/ McLemore encounter. It would be interesting to find out if either Sumpter or McLemore is related to the Cassidy or Eldridge families. James E. Cassidy, a grocery store owner, died in 1957.) MEDIA SPOTLIGHT: Ufologist Stan Gordon of Greensburg, Pennsylvania just released a dynamite 92-minute video entitled Kecksburg: The Untold Story. Using research and interviews, Gordon traces the controversy surrounding the crash of a UFO at Kecksburg, Pennsylvania on December 9, 1965. The videotape costs $29.95, including shipping and handling. Readers can order by telephone by calling 1-888-836-8439. Gordon, who has been investigating UFOs since 1959, also has a UFO Hotline at (724) 838-7768. Janet Russell now has her own TV show, which is devoted to UFOs and the paranormal. It's called Beyond the Unexplained, and it's produced in Medford, Long Island, N.Y. Any ufologist passing through Long Island and who's interested in being a guest should fax Ms. Russell at (516) 654-3173. FUN UFO WEBSITES: Stan Gordon's current investigations are posted at his website. Read up on UFO sightings in western Pennsylvania at http://www.westol.com/~paufo Forchungs Gesellschaft Kornkreise e.V. (FGK) has descriptions of the new crop circles in both German and English. Drop in at this URL: http://www.fgk.org/ Crop circles elsewhere can be followed at the Crop Circle Connector at http://www.Crop.Circle. Connector.com Pedro Ameros has a new site, Paranormal World, at http://www.ctv.es/USERS/seip If you still haven't had enough of Cydonia, check out Peter Blinn's new page at http://www.amug.org/ ~blinn/moc.html Not to be missed is our parent site, UFO INFO, with its wide array of news, photos and features. Check it out at http://ufoinfo.com Back issues of UFO ROUNDUP can be accessed and downloaded at our page, located at http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup On this date, May 10, 1788, Augustin Fresnel, the physicist who developed the transverse wave theory of light, was born in France. Fresnel gave his name to the multi-prism lens used in lighthouses all over the planet. He died on July 14, 1827. Good examples of Fresnel lens can be seen at the Canal Park Museum in Duluth, Minnesota and at the Madeline Island Museum in La Pointe, Wisconsin. When in the Northland, be sure to drop in. That's it for this week. We'll be back next Sunday with more saucer news from "the paper that goes home--UFO ROUNDUP." See you then. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1998 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO ROUNDUP on their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 Re: Computer request From: ParadigmRG <ParadigmRG@aol.com> [Steve Bassett] Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 14:25:45 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 17:25:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Computer request Dear Gentlelistmembers: Larry Bryant, one of the founders of CAUS, has been a significant contributor to the process of political engagement. He has obtained countless documents and generated a continuous stream of focused queries to political and meida points requesting responses and action. He has done all of this with a typewriter- no e-mail, no web access. A major resource to the process of discosure could be significantly enhanced by the addition of a 486/25/28k or better box and a basic inkjet printer that I suspect many of you may have sitting around as doorstops. Larry has provided me with a mountain of material it would have taken years to access. Sooooooooooo, without asking him so he couldn't tell me no, I am making an offer to the list: if one of you will ship a loaner machine to Larry Bryant, I will provide technical support for setup, software usage/install, provide for a free internet account, as well as local moral support during the difficult and painful transition. Any takers? If so, e-mail me for the address. Regards, Steve Bassett Paradigm Research Group
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 Re: Chat with Geologists Erjavec & Moore From: "Yvonne Hedenland" <vonni_h@email.msn.com> Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 12:50:02 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 17:21:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Chat with Geologists Erjavec & Moore The Case for The Face The continued interest in the Cydonia mystery on Mars has recently compelled NASA/JPL to take new images. Geologists James Erjavec and Harry Moore are actively involved in riddling out the latest puzzles of the red planet's illusive 'face'. Join these two scientists on Tuesday, May 12, at 6pm PT, for an update on the analysis behind the latest MGS images and how it applies to theories on Cydonia Geology. As members of the Society for Planetary SETI Research (SPSR), they are collaborative authors in the organization's newest publication: The Case For The Face. Republished here on the UFO Forum, are key articles by each of these geologists: Cydonia Geology: Enigmas With An Ocean View? by James L. Erjavec Artificial Linear Features At Cydonia By Harry Moore This chat is available at http://forums.msn.com/UFO The Briefing Room chat can also be accessed by any IRC client. The chat server name is publicchat.msn.com and the room or channel name is #briefing. The Netshow audio interview is available now.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 Re: 'Alien Interview' Available as .mpg or .mov? From: "Rick Savard" <tcdone@inland.net> Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 12:29:01 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 17:26:00 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Alien Interview' Available as .mpg or .mov? > Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 00:01:31 -0700 > From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl> > To: updates@globalserve.net > I received some questions concerning the alledged "Alien > Interview" that showed up on video. But to be honest, I cannot > make any statements concerning that footage if I haven't had the > chance to view it myself. > I know it's available on the net as a .ram file (RealVideo) wich > my comp can't handle. The video is stil not available here in > holland. The only thing we saw so far is the same picture over > and over again. Would you please advise of the url where the .ram file is available. I have been unable to find this .ram file anywhere. -- STAY CONNECTED, Rick Savard NPAA Group http://www.mufor.org/ares/ tcdone@inland.net ----------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 Cydonia Geology According to SPSR Geologists From: "Diana Botsford" <diana@oznet.com> Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 16:51:53 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 17:27:36 -0400 Subject: Cydonia Geology According to SPSR Geologists This week's guests on the UFO Forum, Harry Moore and James Erjavec, have each written significant chapters of SPSR's new book, CASE FOR THE FACE. The articles are reprinted with the permission of the publisher, Adventures Unlimited Press, and now available on the UFO Forum Site at http://forums.msn.com/ufo: 1)Cydonia Geology: Enigmas With An Ocean View? By Geologist James Erjavec Reviews some popular geologic arguments for the natural formation of landroms in Cydonia and why geologic evidence doesn't support these arguments. Briefly discusses the possible geology which supports the artificiality arguments for some of the enigmatic Cydonian landforms. 2)Artificial Linear Features at Cydonia? by Geologist Harry Moore Considers both sides of the argument that its long, linear surface features do or do not suggest artificiality. There is an audio interview with the two of these gentlemen as well, where they review their latest findings from the April Mars Global Surveyor Images. Diana Botsford Publisher/Forum Manager UFO Forum http://forums.msn.com/ufo - - - - - - "To follow knowledge like a sinking star, Beyond the utmost bound of human thought . . To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield." Tennyson's Ulysses
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 Army releases previously classified 'Secret' From: UFOLAWYER1 <UFOLAWYER1@aol.com> Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 14:30:06 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 17:33:23 -0400 Subject: Army releases previously classified 'Secret' Dear CAUS Subscribers: In a surprise development, the Army has just released 338 pages of documents pursuant to the CAUS FOIA lawsuit. In a covering letter to CAUS, the US Army Intelligence and Security Command stated: "In response to your civil action.....this office has been requested by the Department of the Army, Office of General Counsel, to provide you a copy of the enclosed records. Although these records are not believed to be responsive to your request as specified above, they are being provided as a gesture of cooperation.' The Army further states: 'although the majority of the records either mention or are entitled "Flying Saucers," most of that information concerns the activities of the Horton brothers and their research and development of a "flying wing" aircraft, which was referred to by many as a "flying saucer."' A preliminary review of the documents by CAUS reveals that they are from the late 40s and early 50s, most were classified 'Secret' and 10 are photocopies of photographs of fragments of unusual looking artifacts. At this time, CAUS does not believe these documents had been released previously. CAUS will be reading each of the documents and will keep its subscribers informed of the results. Have an enjoyable day and...watch the skies! Peter A. Gersten, Esq. Executive Director Be sure to visit the CAUS web site at http://caus.org To join this mailing list, go to http://caus.org/feedback.htm To be REMOVED from this mailing list, go to http://caus.org/remove.htm OR you can send a message to listserv@caus.org with the following in the BODY of the message: unsubscribe CAUSupdates
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 USA TODAY Update On Cydonia Controversy From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 21:29:05 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 17:34:20 -0400 Subject: USA TODAY Update On Cydonia Controversy From USA TODAY's website. URL: http://www.usatoday.com/life/science/space/lss234.htm Stig ******* 05/10/98- Updated 09:51 PM ET Mars' 'face' a pile of rocks? Whether carved by aliens or sculpted by nature, the famous "face" on Mars continues to stir up a cosmic controversy. Never mind that NASA's Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft made three sweeps near the planet last month and sent back photos to debunk notions that an ancient civilization carved the face. "This is ancient, ruined architecture we're seeing," insists Richard Hoagland, author of The Monuments of Mars and the loudest voice for the theory that aliens built the face. NASA says Surveyor's pictures provide ample evidence that the mile-long mesa on the Martian plain Cydonia is just a naturally occurring pile of rocks. Surveyor's camera is 10 times more powerful than the one aboard the Viking probe, which in 1976 first sent back pictures of the mesa and other strange rock formations. But on Internet sites, in calls to talk radio programs and in UFO conferences, the cry is growing for more and better pictures from different angles. The Cydonian formation has galvanized Mars buffs and the ET crowd in ways few other phenomena have. Some believers accuse the government of hiding evidence that would "prove" that Cydonia contains too many strange architectural shapes for them to have formed naturally. The outcroppings, they say, could have taken shape only by design. Hoagland says NASA has photographs confirming his theory but won't release them because they could so shock Earth that civilization might collapse. "They are seeing things they did not expect. That's why they're not showing all the data," Hoagland says. NASA says it has released everything it has on Cydonia and, for that matter, everywhere else on Mars. Officially, the agency declines to take a position on the origin of Cydonia. But some scientists note privately that Hoagland is keeping the controversy alive to push his book, videotapes, posters and speeches. Scientists on the Surveyor mission say there's a simple explanation for why Cydonia's features appear the way they do. The same natural forces that shaped the rocks there can be found on Earth. "The area is geologically very interesting," says Arden Albee, project scientist at the California Institute of Technology. "It looks like there were a number of layers of material laid down in the planet's formation with different hardnesses. These layers then eroded, so you get craters which are perched up in the air sort of like on a pedestal. We've seen these elsewhere on Mars." But that assessment is not enough to keep others from joining the fray. Geologists, photography experts and architects are downloading Surveyor's pictures from the Internet and analyzing them. Even members of Congress are taking new interest in briefings from the Planetary Society in Pasadena, Calif., on the Cydonia images and other missions to Mars. "Those of us who have studied it are unanimous that it's artificial," says Tom Van Flandern, an astronomer and former head of celestial mechanics at the U.S. Naval Observatory. Van Flandern, who runs a Washington, D.C.-based group called Meta Research that investigates celestial anomalies, doesn't buy into the theory of a government cover-up or that "UFO pilots" built monuments on Mars. But because the Martian region has so many odd patterns and shapes, he puts the odds at a billion to 1 that all of them occurred naturally. Van Flandern says he hopes NASA can be persuaded to take more photographs of the formation while it can. NASA would have to race against time. On Sept. 11, Surveyor's orbit will be adjusted so it won't pass over Cydonia every nine days, as it is now. The maneuvers are necessary to lower the spacecraft into a tight circular orbit so it can begin its primary mission of mapping the planet starting in March 1999. No more pictures are coming anytime soon. Mars now is in solar conjunction, which means that it is behind the sun as seen from Earth. That makes it hard for controllers to exchange transmissions with Surveyor. The cameras have been turned off, and they won't be back on until May 26, when the conjunction period ends. At that point, the camera will take pictures as the science warrants, says Mike Ravine, advanced projects manager at Malin Space Science Systems in San Diego, which built the camera. "We're not going to be targeting specific things. We already took the picture of the face, and I don't care what Hoagland says, it's a good picture." As Ravine sees it, even if Surveyor takes photos only of Cydonia, it will not be enough to satisfy believers. "I don't believe these people are going to be happy no matter what we do. The idea that I would play some willing role to suppress information that some alien civilization exists is just ridiculous. "There is no conspiracy." To Hoagland, the controversy will be settled only with more data. "If we don't get it, all we'll have for the next 20 years to argue about are just these three images. That would be a tragedy." By Paul Hoversten, USA TODAY *Go to Science digest *Go to Life front page =A9COPYRIGHT 1998 USA TODAY, a division of Gannett Co. Inc.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 Re: The Paradigm Clock From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 13:01:49 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 17:22:32 -0400 Subject: Re: The Paradigm Clock >From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia] >Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 16:28:25 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Paradigm Clock > <<The "full disclosure" that Ufology looks for is not unlike > <<the end of the world that religious sects seek. Both have > <<been imminent in the minds of true believers for a very > <<long time. I think that both are about equally likely to > <<happen in my lifetime. > <<Bob >Too bad there aren't more positive minded people like >Steve Bassett on this list. The amount of people that >are willing to take UFOs seriously IS increasing. The >tide is turning and things are moving along. Imminent >disclosure? Don't know. Great progress? I would have >to say yes. Why is it a positive attitude to make a statment such as the one Bob made above? I think this demonstrates pure frustration. I can relate to that frustration. Yet, I will not make the same statment. If anything, I desire to see admission of the reality of the UFO Phenomena and a historical chronology of that history prior to my demise. For me to want anything else, would be a surrender of my goals in this area. REgards, Mike The fastest way to respond to this message is through the ICQ Network. A message sent this way will go directly to my screen. If you have ICQ you can message me at ICQ#:7508455. If you don't have ICQ you can page me through: My Personal Communication Center: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/7508455 (go there and try it!) Or you can send me a regular e-mail to my EmailExpress address: 7508455@pager.mirabilis.com. Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/ Include your ICQ details in YOUR e-mail signature: http://www.icq.com/emailsig.html. My BBS Telephone Number is: (502) 683-3026 My Fax Number is: (502) 686-7394 My Home Telephone Number is: (502) 683-6811 Michael Christol ----------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 11th Annual International UFO Conference From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 05:15:35 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 17:31:21 -0400 Subject: 11th Annual International UFO Conference FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT John White=09 60 Pound Ridge Road Cheshire, CT 06410 =95 USA Tel 203-272-2151 =95 Fax 203-250-0501 UFO CONFERENCE TO FEATURE APOLLO 14 ASTRONAUT EDGAR MITCHELL The sixth man on the moon, Apollo 14 astronaut Edgar D. Mitchell, will be the featured speaker among a dozen UFO investigators discussing the latest developments in ufology at the 11th annual international conference on "The UFO Experience" on October 10-11, 1998 at the Holiday Inn in North Haven, Connecticut, USA. The conference will offer a comprehensive look at the UFO phenomenon. Eminent researchers and experiencers from around the U.S. and Europe will present their findings and considered opinions about what UFOs are, where they come from, why they are here, and what the government knows about it and why it is covering up. In February 1971, Mitchell became the sixth man to walk on the moon. He holds a doctorate in aeronautics and astronautics from Massachusetts Institute of Technology. On Saturday night, October 11, he will discuss "Alien Presence=97Yes or No?," giving an account of his personal investigations into the existence of extraterrestrial life forms and the evidence for alien visitation to Earth. Other speakers on the program are: Dan Brookes and John Dorazio, Connecticut ufologists who will discuss "UFOs in Connecticut=97A Grassroots Investigation." Brookes and Dorazio are cofounders of the UFO Research and Study Organization (UFORSO), a Connecticut-based public membership group which investigates UFO reports and actively searches for UFOs. Michael Hesemann, a ufologist and cultural anthropologist from Germany, will speak on "UFOs=97The Secret History." His presentation will discuss the government-military involvement with UFOs from the 1940s to the present. Hesemann is coauthor of Beyond Roswell, a recently published investigation of the so-called "alien autopsy" and other aspects of the famed 1947 Roswell, New Mexico, UFO crash and several other crashes which are lesser known. Linda Moulton Howe, M.S., an Emmy-winning television producer who has investigated the phenomenon of animal mutilation and UFOs, will speak on "Glimpses of Other Realities=971998 Update." The author of several documentaries and books on the subject, including Strange Harvest and High Strangeness, Howe lives in Pennsylvania. Philip Imbrogno, M.S., a ufologist and coauthor of Night Siege: The Hudson Valley UFO Mystery, will report on "Contact of the Fifth Kind." He contends there is a silent alien invasion under way and the U.S. government knows of it. He will present evidence to demonstrate his claim. A science educator in New York state, Imbrogno holds a B.S. degree in astronomy, an M.S. in science education and is a Ph.D. candidate. Jack Kewaunee Lapseritis, M.S., author of the just-published book The Psychic Sasquatch: A UFO Connection, will discuss his research into the Sasquatch people, popularly known as Bigfoot, and their relation to UFOs. Lapseritis, who claims to have had 20 years of personal contact with Sasquatch, is a social scientist-anthropologist. He lives in Arizona. Joe Lewels, Ph.D., will discuss "Aliens or Angels: The Controversy Over the God Hypothesis." Dr. Lewels' research with more than 100 abductees leads him to conclude that UFOs and their occupants have been responsible for most, if not all, world religions, and their purpose today is to salvage human DNA before the human species becomes extinct. He was formerly a professor of journalism and mass communications at University of Texas at El Paso. Michael Mannion, a New York City author, will discuss his just-published book, Operation Mindshift, which looks at how public opinion and public perception of the UFO phenomenon is influenced by direct and by stealthy means. Hollywood, television, science and government, including covert government disinformation operations, will be covered. Derrel Sims, an "alien hunter" from Houston, Texas, will present "Medical and Scientific Evidence of Alien Contact" gathered by him over 34 years of research. Slides, videotape and actual physical objects apparently "alien" in nature will be shown, along with a demonstration of Sims' discovery of a fluorescing compound which is found on abductees after physical contact with aliens. Daved Rubien, state director of the Mutual UFO Network for Rhode Island, will speak on "The ETs We Encounter Today." His research with abductees indicates there are many types of ETs beyond the so-called "grays" which are often depicted on television and in film. He will describe them and their activities, as revealed through his abduction research. Robert Wood, Ph.D., a retired aerospace engineer-scientist, will talk about "Cosmic Watergate: New Evidence of Crashed UFOs Recovered by the Government." Dr. Wood has researched a recently leaked 1954 Special Operations Manual used to guide U.S. military personnel in recovery and disposal of UFOs and their occupants. John White, internationally known researcher of paranormal phenomena and author of 15 books, will chair the conference. His books and articles have been published in nine languages. A UFO photo exhibit will also be featured, along with the speakers' books for autographing. Begun in 1987 by John White, "The UFO Experience" is an annual October conference offering a wide-ranging, balanced look at the UFO phenomenon. Presentations are given by eminent investigators and famous UFO contactees and abductees, who share their personal experiences, their research data, and their insights and considered opinions about what UFOs are, where they come from, why they are here. Attendees learn about the range of UFO encounters and theories, how professional investigators conduct their investigations, and how the public should handle UFO sightings for maximum effectiveness in the ongoing search for answers. The proceedings of each year=92s program are available in audiotape and videotape format, and a free brochure is available at the address below which describes the lectures and the speakers. The conference also offers a supportive setting for people to "unburden" themselves if they feel they have had UFO experiences but are afraid to talk about them. People can share their UFO experiences with others who are sympathetic and knowledgeable. The conference offers contact with support groups who can provide ongoing help for those trying to recover from unusual, difficult and often terrifying experiences. Others believe they are "Star People" whose true home is not Earth but some other planet or solar system. Star People likewise find the conference helpful to them. Admission is by registration only. The registration fee is $125 until June 30, $145 until August 30 and $175 thereafter. The fee does not include lodging or meals. To register or for further information, write to Omega Communications, P. O. Box 2051, Cheshire, Connecticut 06410-5051, USA. If space allows at conference time, admission will be permitted at $90 per day or $20 per event. ###
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? From: Darren Danks <darren@darrend.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 18:00:16 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 17:20:00 -0400 Subject: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? Tim, Your recent posting (rant) was quite a good one this time. I enjoy having a good chuckle now and then. Why do you keep insisting on posting so many back-biting and attacking messages? You are making ufology look like more of a laughing stock than the house of commons!! We should all be working together to find the ultimate truth and NOT fighting with each other. Now to address the points as I see and know them:- The recent Midlands talk that Eric did. Irene definitely did not discourage two organisers from booking him. After hearing the guy speak then I really wish she HAD tried to discourage him from speaking there. The evening started out ok and the Welsh case details were put over quite well, but the 2nd half with the question and answer session simply degenerated into Eric Morris's ranting hour! He basically slagged off everything he wasn't connected with from magazines to research. Oh I liked the fact that the "glossies" didn't get their facts right and were "garbage" and Eric's forthcoming new magazine project was the only one that will have the truth in it! A little presumptuous there Eric!! Didn't he realise that there were people there who were new to ufology and his rantings and attacks would be putting them off from getting involved? Or was it that he simply did not care??? A really professional attitude there Eric................NOT!!! You talk of people running and demanding money for their work. Didn't you say in one of your recent rants that you approached the organisers of the Cornwall conference and then asked for money? I can just imagine it now....."yes Mr Gillham, I'll speak for you.........but it'll cost ya!!". You are obviously totally pissed at the fact that you have only got 2000 for your forthcoming book. It certainly sounds that way from what Eric Morris was ranting about at the mentioned Midlands talk where he told everyone. So Irene sticks her nose into everything does she? Isn't that the role of a researcher? I don't know any researchers that just sit around and have all the facts simply brought to them on a platter. Do you??? Nick Pope. Why do you keep bringing him into all of this? Has he attacked you? Or are you just on a roll and though you'd go for Nick P as well? Irene as an agent? That's a new one. I've approached Irene before to ask for a list of addresses of people who have spoken at her group before. Never once has she asked to be my agent. Shall I tell you why? It's because she doesn't approach people, that's why. All she does is give that list out to anyone who asks for it. A list, I may add, that you specifically asked for your name to be removed from (that you weren't even on in the first place). Why would you do that when you so desperately want your research so widely known? We're interested in stifling non-et UFO research are we? Well let me tell you that I'm as interested in secret aircraft/black budget aircraft as much as non-planetary craft. Your work in connection with this may well be very very good but the way you are being so nasty in your messages is going to put people off wanting to read it. You are more or less saying that your research is the only truth and everyone else who disagrees with you are wrong and are put onto your hit list. Who else is on there? I don't agree with everything you say so am I now on that list? Am I now suddenly talking crap concerning UFO research? You will not allow any more behind-the-scenes smear campaigns he? Well it certainly looks to me as if it's YOU who's starting them!! Your final PS note. Does it mean that you are going to turn up at the next SUFOG meeting and make yourself look totally unprofessional? Why don't you take Irene's advise and save your petrol money!!! Maybe you shouldn't advertise where your going to be at any one time incase any of your "friends" from groups like the B.N.P. etc who you have obviously upset in the past greet you rather than the group organisers? Are you going to do a re-run of the classic "dragging out of the audience" routine? Will Eric be there to swear on your behalf?? You really need to look at yourself and your bad attitude and correct it before absolutely everyone disassociates themselves from you and you become a complete joke. You're putting people off from getting involved with research. They are simply going to follow all your postings and think "I'm not getting into that crap!!". Your attacks are ruining further respected research into this phenomenon. OK so you think all these craft sightings are of earthly origins and others think they come from other planets, so what!! If we all thought the same things it would be an extremely boring world. We are all individuals and not clones and as such, we all thing differently. Why don't you just accept this fact of life and carry on with YOUR research and not try constantly to disrupt others. You really need to let others think for themselves rather than forcing your opinions and suggestions down their throats. Your stance should be to present the evidence and let them decide for themselves. i.e. talk TO them and NOT AT them. Have a peachy day Darren Danks
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 Re: Ricardo's Saga From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 14:30:28 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 18:01:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Ricardo's Saga > From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <pharaoh@web2000.net> > Organization: MIAMI UFO CENTER > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Re: Ricardo's Saga > Dear Larry Hatch, > Under INVESTIGATION you will find RICARDO'S SAGA. Date of the > Experience: First abduction; January 23, 1981 at 8:00 PM. Second > Encounter; January 23, 1982, exactly a year later. Place: > Mendoza, Argentina. War in the Falkland Island: April, 1982. The > investigation on December 5, 1982. > Hope that answer your questions. Please, try again for the story > and photos. This is an unknown investigation done in association > with the late Dr. J. Allen Hynek. > Very truly yours, > > Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo > MIAMI UFO CENTER Thank you Virgilio! I will check it out. I wasn't aware of these events. Did Hynek reach any conclusions? - Best wishes - Larry Hatch > From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <pharaoh@web2000.net> > Organization: MIAMI UFO CENTER > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Re: Ricardo's Saga > >> From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> > >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Ricardo's Saga > >> Dear Virgilio: > >> I visited the "geocities" site address below, but could not find > >> anything about the Mendoza abduction case you mentioned. > >> Is there some special way to get the year, date, > >> and location? > Dear Larry Hatch, > Under INVESTIGATION you will find RICARDO'S SAGA. Date of the > Experience: First abduction; January 23, 1981 at 8:00 PM. Second > Encounter; January 23, 1982, exactly a year later. Place: > Mendoza, Argentina. War in the Falkland Island: April, 1982. The > investigation on December 5, 1982. > Hope that answer your questions. Please, try again for the story > and photos. This is an unknown investigation done in association > with the late Dr. J. Allen Hynek. > Very truly yours, > > Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo > MIAMI UFO CENTER
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 Petition Against Alien Discrimination From: naclip@www.newsalert.com, Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 21:44:17 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 17:56:39 -0400 Subject: Petition Against Alien Discrimination Director Heading For Cannes With Alien Agenda PR Newswire - May 11, 1998 15:29 STUDIO CITY, Calif., May 11 /PRNewswire/ -- At Cannes this year, Brian Yuzna will be screening one film about evil aliens impregnating human women, and promoting another about an alien hero who saves the earth. "Progeny" is a modern-day version of "Rosemary's Baby," with aliens doing the devil's dirty-work, and "Zen Intergalactic Ninja" will be a live-action adaptation of the independent comic-book that has sold over a million copies. "I'm excited to be going to Cannes with both of these projects," said producer/director Yuzna, whose "Re-animator" and "Bride of Re-animator" are considered modern horror classics. In addition to other gorefests including "From Beyond" and "The Dentist," the versatile Yuzna also originated the story for Disney's megahit, "Honey, I Shrunk the Kids." Now he's turning his talents to those ever-popular aliens--especially the forthcoming "Zen," whom he describes as 'cosmically cool.' "Aliens have gotten a lot of bad press," Yuzna said, "with movies such as 'Independence Day' and 'Men in Black.' And 'Progeny' also casts them as heavies. But Zen is a true hero who should help turn the image of aliens around." Zen's creators, Steve Stern and Dan Cote, are so fervent about this issue that they have a 'Petition Against Alien Discrimination' posted at the comics' website, www.surging.com/compop/zen. Netsurfers can sign the petition with the click of their mouse. "We already have several thousand signatories," said Stern, who plans to publish the names in a national ad campaign to coincide with the release of the "Zen" movie. With the licensing clout of Surge Entertainment--the same people who marketed the Ninja Turtles--Zen will make his presence felt on the store shelves, as well. "Zen Intergalactic Ninja" is a production of Canada's Cine-Groupe, a Lions Gate company. Yuzna will film it in Montreal later this year, for a 1999 release. Contact Brian Yuzna in LA thru 5/12 at (818) 769-5306; Steve Stern, Zen Comics, (818) 508-8190; Mark Freedman, Surge Entertainment, (516) 939-2226 SOURCE Zen Comics Publishing /CONTACT: Steve Stern of Zen Comics, 818-508-8190; Mark Freedman, Surge Entertainment, 516-939-2226/ /Photo: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/pub/pd/pdz?f=PRN/prnphotos&grid=2 or NewsCom, 305-448-8411/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 Re: Chat with Geologists Erjavec & Moore From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 18:40:04 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 19:05:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Chat with Geologists Erjavec & Moore >From: "Yvonne Hedenland" <vonni_h@email.msn.com> >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Chat with Geologists Erjavec & Moore >Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 12:50:02 -0500 >The Case for The Face >The continued interest in the Cydonia mystery on Mars has >recently compelled NASA/JPL to take new images. Geologists James >Erjavec and Harry Moore are actively involved in riddling out the >latest puzzles of the red planet's illusive 'face'. <snip> Right on!!!! ROFLMAO! "the read planet's illusive 'face'" Illusive, to quote The American Heritage Dictionary, means: >Produced by, based on, or having the nature of an >illusion; deceptive: "Secret activities offer presidents >the alluring but often illusive promise that they can >achieve foreign policy goals without the bothersome >debate and open decision that are staples of >democracy" (Tom Wicker). I think the bit about "deceptive" applies here all too well. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 Re: MUFON a bit behind... From: Steve Neeley <stneeley@mail.bright.net> Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 19:17:12 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 21:41:46 -0400 Subject: Re: MUFON a bit behind... _____________________________________________________ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 18:33:12 -0400 To: MUFON HQ <MUFONHQ@aol.com> From: Steve Neeley <stneeley@mail.bright.net> Subject: Re: Corrected Correction In-Reply-To: <f830ba45.355761b2@aol.com Dear Mr Rodigher, I have not been happy with Mr Timmerman`s lack of shall we say, get up and go, when it comes to investigating cases around here. Also, he has virtually written off sharing those precious files so I, a certified MUFON investigator, can help him with the legwork. So when it came to my attention he had been on Sightings on the radio I listened to the archived file and there he was talking aboput his backlog of reports and here am I. I wanted to help him get up an OHIO MUFON website. He says he can't learn the computer. Maybe he just doesn't trust or like me. But he talks a good game but he don`t walk the walk. Frankly I see him as a debunker disguised as a UFO investigator. He has a military background and he was chosen by J. Allen Hynek who was a lackey for the fed. so its guilt by association. But as a person I like the man. He has a sterling reputation in our area for honesty. There were dozens of sightings around here during winter 94-95 and me, my wife, the postmistress and numerous others reported LITS and triangles and saucers and military jets chasing LITS, and black unmarked helicopters. We had an undeniable flap. It was not properly investigated. It was cast aside. Also, MUFON`s Walt Andrus signed for three of my best photos of the unknowns and has not returned them. I have asked him for them on the phone several times . His reply is that he cannot find them. I have asked Mr Timmerman for them and he has been unsuccessful as well. I have heard MUFON called "the black hole of UFO photos". It seems to be true. http://www.geocities.com/soho/5782 See my website dedicated to the pictures of unknown LITS photos that I took during Winter 94-95. I am no scientist. I am a working man with 26 years at the same place. A family man with a wife and grown kids. And I have a strange story to tell. I know its strange but when I finally, after seeing these things all my life at intervals, get pics of them it s a little bit dissappointing to see it ignored. I knew you wouldn`t like my article and I wrote it to light a fire under your ass. I want my pictures back! Steve <<<>>> At 04:38 PM 5/11/98 EDT, you wrote: Steve, I was passed a copy of your story on John Timmerman, where in he is listed as being the executive treasurer of MUFON. John Timmerman, although he works with MUFON as a State Section Director, and also in his capacity as executive treasurer of CUFOS, he otherwise has little to do with MUFON, considering the size of the membership. We think it is necessary for you to make a correction to the story, in that it gives the impression that MUFON is not doing its job, and we are already getting inquires about the story and the situation. MUFON does not tend to become so back logged because of its pyrimad stucture and our large number of investigators under that structure. John Timmerman is only responsible to MUFON for his small section of Ohio. The fact that he has collected a lot of cases in his travels is interesting but not unusual. Like John we all hear about cases, especially when we are on the road, and we do not always get back to them when we return to our work-a- day lives. I feel I can safely say that John has acted on the strong cases that have been brought to his attention. MUFON Staff, for the Director _____________________________ Steven J. Neeley, Director Ohio Skywatch International http://www.geocities.com/soho/5782 stneeley@bright.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 Re: Army Releases Previously Classified Documents From: "Stanton T. Friedman" <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 20:23:54 -0300 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 22:02:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Army Releases Previously Classified Documents > From: UFOLAWYER1 <UFOLAWYER1@aol.com> > Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 14:30:06 EDT > To: CAUSupdates@caus.org > Subject: [CAUS updates] - Army releases previously classified > 'Secret' documents to CAUS > Dear CAUS Subscribers: > In a surprise development, the Army has just released 338 pages > of documents pursuant to the CAUS FOIA lawsuit. In a covering > letter to CAUS, the US Army Intelligence and Security Command > stated: "In response to your civil action.....this office has > been requested by the Department of the Army, Office of General > Counsel, to provide you a copy of the enclosed records. > Although these records are not believed to be responsive to your > request as specified above, they are being provided as a gesture > of cooperation.' <snip> Those documents were sent out years ago after the GAO stuff forced them to look again. It is their standard package if one asks for UFO stuff. Obviously not very exciting STF UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 Re: 'Alien Interview' Available as..... From: james rhodes <sharkey@texas.net> Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 18:09:50 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 21:58:41 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Alien Interview' Available as..... >Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 08:07:03 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Alien Interview' Available as .mpg or .mov? >I've had it on video for some time. I have to say that I am >completely underwhelmed by it. It is so dark and murky that >it is impossible to draw any conclusions from it. Could be >an "alien", could be a puppet. >Bob I thought I might share a couple of observations concerning the "Alien Interview". Being that it is so dark, one cannot really determine much in the way of authentication. However there is a point in the sequence just after the nurse team enters the room, right before the face is illuminated by the flashlight, that the head seems to dip to one side and remain motionless for a splitsecond. It "almost" looks like a puppet being repositioned so the nurse team can take their positions. This may be nothing more than a misinterpretation on my part. I must say however, that the opening of the mouth during the spasms, looks very natural, not puppet-like at all. I also recorded the voice of "Victor" and sped up the tape approx two times (just under that if I recall), and the voice shared a remarkable resemblance to that of Bob Lazar (recorded from the same tape). Go figure? What this implies is open to interpretation. It may mean nothing. My guess is, unless someone comes forward, it will remain an enigma for sometime. Perhaps it is a decoy? I doubt that it has made much money. james
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 Re: 'Alien Interview' Available as..... From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl> Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 01:25:23 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 22:06:31 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Alien Interview' Available as..... > Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 08:07:03 -0400 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Alien Interview' Available as .mpg or .mov? > >Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 00:01:31 -0700 > >From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl> > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Alien Interview Available as .mpg or .mov? > >So my questions are these: > >Is there anybody out there who knows if there's a .mpg or a > >.mov-version of that footage? > I've had it on video for some time. I have to say that I am > completely underwhelmed by it. It is so dark and murky that > it is impossible to draw any conclusions from it. Could be > an "alien", could be a puppet. > Bob That's what my conclusion was from the stills I saw, what doesn't mean I don't wanna see it :-) I actually think it's another shot to become a Lazar or Santilli, ...hmmm Nice FX brought out on homevideo in order to make a couple of fast bucks, let me think...There was a guy here in europe who lived well of it.... 'till recently that is...er...what was his name again...Meier.. something ;-) Too bad there are of lot of those around, ...ah well...keeps us busy :) But thanx anyway! Andy.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 Burger King's Alien Ad Campaign From: naclip@www.newsalert.com, Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 01:06:10 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 21:54:22 -0400 Subject: Burger King's Alien Ad Campaign It had to be. Stig ******* Burger King Corporation Rolls Out This Summer's Biggest And Coolest Premium Promotion Ever PR Newswire - May 11, 1998 18:03 MIAMI, May 11 /PRNewswire/ -- Coming to a universe near you from today through June 21, Burger King Corporation's biggest and coolest premium promotion ever. Based on last summer's theatrical release of Men in Black(TM), this year's animated television series has captivated kids of all ages and, beginning today, Burger King(R) restaurants will accelerate this MIB momentum by offering 12 Men in Black(TM) premiums during a six-week promotion. "Providing kids with twice the number of toys during this month-and-a-half time period doubles the reasons for kids to visit our restaurants," said Richard Taylor, vice president of Marketing Services, Burger King Corporation. The premiums, the largest in size ever offered by the company, are comprised of 12 different toy designs that feature unique aliens and out-of- this-world accessories and vehicles from the series which has achieved the highest ratings in its Saturday, 9 a.m. time slot. The series is backed by The Kids WB Network, which continues to fuel demand for the Men in Black(TM) property, a $250 million smash hit at the box office last summer. "Kids of all ages will be able to share in the excitement generated by the MIB phenomenon," said Brian Gies, manager, Youth and Family Marketing, Burger King Corporation. "With the staying power of this blockbuster property, what kid would want to be without the official Men in Black(TM) gear or other official MIB toys that will be offered with every kids meal?" Burger King Corporation and its franchisees operate more than 9,600 restaurants in all 50 states and in 55 countries and in international territories around the world. In fiscal year 1997, Burger King had systemwide sales of $9.8 billion. Burger King is a subsidiary of Diageo plc, one of the world's largest branded consumer products businesses. SOURCE Burger King Corporation /CONTACT: Kim Miller, or Charles Nicolas, both of Burger King Corporation, 305-378-7277/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 Re: The Paradigm Clock From: "Stanton T. Friedman" <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 21:11:18 -0300 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 22:09:55 -0400 Subject: Re: The Paradigm Clock > Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 04:04:12 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Paradigm Clock > >Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 11:53:59 -0500 > >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Paradigm Clock > >> From: UFOLAWYER1 <UFOLAWYER1@aol.com> [Peter Gersten] > >> Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 10:28:39 EDT > >> To: updates@globalserve.net > >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Paradigm Clock > >> >>From: KRandle993 <KRandle993@aol.com> [Kevin Randle] > >> >>Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 12:02:36 EDT > >> >>To: updates@globalserve.net > >> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Paradigm Clock > >> <snip> > >> >Anyway, I vote that we move the hands much farther from > >> >midnight to represent the real state of affairs. > >> I agree...let's say about 11:00....a.m. > >> Peter > >For me the midnight gongs, bells, whistles and chimes have > >sounded, and continue to sound -- I've seen the damn things! > >Place the hands at midnight! > >Lehmberg@snowhill.com > Hi Al, hi All, > It's more like 3am on that score Al. Bear in mind that Kevin > and Stan are on mountain time so they're a few hours behind > the rest of us. <G> > But if I'm not mistaken I think the "Paradigm clock" (whatever > the hell that is) is set to 'disclosure time.' In terms of > disclosure both Kevin and Stan are correct. It doesn't look like > the gubbamint is -anywhere near- to any open policy or disclosure > on the UFO/ET issue. On -that- count the clock should be reset to > "Aussie" time. > 3 AM yesterday! > John Velez Stan Friedman wrote: Hey guys, Fredericton is in the Atlantic Time Zone one hour ahead of New York and not in the Mountain Time Zone. STF
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 11 Re: Army Releases Previously Classified Documents From: UFOLAWYER1 <UFOLAWYER1@aol.com> Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 22:26:44 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 23:01:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Army Releases Previously Classified Documents Dear CAUS Subscribers: CAUS wishes to thank Ben De Crease for bringing to its attention the fact that the Army had released these same documents, based on his FOIA request, several months ago. The Army's 'gesture of cooperation' is nothing more than a tender of what we already had. Actually...it is an insult and CAUS will so inform the Federal Court in its response to the Army's eventual Motion to Dismiss. Nevertheless, CAUS does believe that the documents, though not directly relevant to the lawsuit, are historically significant and will review them in that light. The documents can be found on John Greenwald's superb website The Black Vault...which coincidentally is to be Wednesday's Website. The documents can be accessed at: http://www.blackvault.com/foia/army/response/0001ind.html or click on http://www.blackvault.com/foia/army/response/0001ind.html Department of the Army Attached material Index CAUS apologises for the false hope...but that's what you get when you place a misguided faith in the wolf...the same old story over and over again. Watch the skies! Peter A. Gersten Executive Director http://www.blackvault.com/foia/army/response/0001ind.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 12 Re: The Paradigm Clock From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis] Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 23:12:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 06:54:50 -0400 Subject: Re: The Paradigm Clock >Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 04:04:12 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Paradigm Clock > But if I'm not mistaken I think the "Paradigm clock" (whatever > the hell that is) is set to 'disclosure time.' In terms of > disclosure both Kevin and Stan are correct. It doesn't look > like the gubbamint is -anywhere near- to any open policy or > disclosure on the UFO/ET issue. On -that- count the clock > should be reset to "Aussie" time. > 3 AM yesterday! > John Velez Oh Dear....now.......which way do we go around the world to find Australian time??? JOHNNIE! Do you know _where_ Australia actually _is_? <VBMFG> FC -- "It's a kind of magic, it's a kind of magic, A kind of magic...One dream, one soul, One prize, one goal... One golden glance of what should be." From: QUEEN "A Kind of Magic" album (1986) ******************************************* Please visit our website "ORBWATCH" at http://www.per.to/orbwatch *******************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 12 CNN - UFO Security Classification Hearings From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 05:40:43 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 07:00:59 -0400 Subject: CNN - UFO Security Classification Hearings Received via the "Skyopen" list May 12 at 05.05 local time (GMT + 1 hour). Stig ******* -----Original Message----- From: ROGER L. SCHERRER <cydonia@aztec.asu.edu> To: Skypost@unix.ltlb.com <Skypost@unix.ltlb.com>; Starmanbh@AOL.COM <Starmanbh@AOL.COM>; Jhickman@itlnet.net <Jhickman@itlnet.net> Date: Monday, May 11, 1998 6:25 PM Subject: [cydonia@aztec.asu.edu: CNN - UFO Security Classification Hearings] ================= Begin forwarded message ================= From: cydonia@aztec.asu.edu (ROGER L. SCHERRER) To: cydonia Subject: CNN - UFO Security Classification Hearings Date: Mon, 11 May To Whom it may concern. The Following information was provided by a reliable, source who wished to remain confidential. I am not the author. Cheers, Roger. Date: Mon May 11 14:43:56 1998 Subject: hearings On Mon. 5-11-98, C-SPAN provided live coverage of the House Oversight Subcommittee hearings on Human Rights Documents for Guatemala and Honduras. Rep. Steve Horn (Republican from CA) questioned Lee Strickland from CIA and Steve Garfinkle from the Information Security Oversight Office about classification levels other than the usual Top Secret, Secret, and Confidential categories. [Anyone that has looked into this area would soon learn that there are many levels that are higher than the Top Secret category.] Rep. Horn's inquiry yielded the following information: there are "special access programs" that are a subset within the Top Secret category and there is a separate classification system for nuclear-related programs (this system was created by the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 and allows for the categories of "restricted data" and "formerly restricted data"). Rep. Horn then asked about the classification of "UFO information". Mr. Strickland and Mr. Garfinkle both said that information relating to UFOs is classified according to the regular system of Top Secret, Secret, and Confidential. If we are to believe the testimony of these two, there are only a handful of classification levels. A good follow up question that Rep. Horn should have asked is the following: What about SCI, CRYPTO, ULTRA, VRK, UMBRA, Q38, etc. etc.? I have a sneaky suspicion that the Rep. from CA was being duped. Apparently, Rep. Horn is planning future hearings on the issue of secrecy. Call his office and support him in this effort to shed light on the shadow government that hides behind the cloak of "national security". There is an (800) phone number: 800/504-0031 Reaches the capital switch board and then request they connect you to his office or your own represenative or Congressman. ***************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 12 Re: New Russian UFO Crash From: "Laurie Maclean" <lmaclean@north.nsis.com> Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 01:11:31 -0300 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 07:05:54 -0400 Subject: Re: New Russian UFO Crash Hello to all; I've been staying in the back ground for a good year now and have enjoyed reading the UpDates day by day. Now to the point. On the Sightings page( www.sightings.com/ufo/russianros.htm ) it is said that the crash took place in Aug. - Sept.of 1991. The illustration by James Neff is dated 1989. May be this was just a missplaced couple of numbers?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 12 Re: Army Releases Previously Classified Documents From: UFOLAWYER1 <UFOLAWYER1@aol.com> Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 00:07:31 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 06:47:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Army Releases Previously Classified Documents >Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 20:23:54 -0300 >From: "Stanton T. Friedman" <fsphys@brunnet.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Army releases previously classified 'Secret' > documents to CAUS Stanton, Actually after reading only about 100 pages, I find them quite interesting. Strange that the Army would go to so much trouble (hundreds of pages of documents documenting many months of investigation utilyzing countless agents) at the end of 1947 to find the Horton brothers and question them about flying saucers, if they already knew (according to Corso) that they were extraterrestrial in origin. Peter
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 12 UFOs And The Governments Of The USA And UK From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 04:06:06 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 06:34:02 -0400 Subject: UFOs And The Governments Of The USA And UK Some unknown and interesting pieces of information from 'Lobster' # 32 December 1996. URL: http://www.knowledge.co.uk/xxx/lobster/articles/l32ufos.htm Stig ******* UFOs and the governments of the USA and UK by Armen Victorian >From Lobster 32 Researchers who ask for pertinent records from the US Air Force about UFOs are provided with a 'Fact Sheet' which states that since the closure of Project Blue Book in 1974, the USAF has no interest in, and does not study, the subject. The USAF information pack refers inquirers to various non-governmental UFO research organizations which are closely monitored, and, at times, directed by various US intelligence and military agencies. (1) The men from the Ministry In Britain, Air Staff 2 (a), a desk in the Ministry of Defence, manned by junior civil servants such as Nick Pope, J. Palmer, Owen Hartop, Kerry Philpott, and Ralph Noyes, respond to public inquiries. The knowledge of these individuals is limited and their responses consequently sometimes inaccurate. Contrary to claims made by Air Staff 2 (a) that they are privy to all UFO reports, there is a component within the MOD which deals with more serious aspects of this subject. On October 23 1989, in the course of one of my investigations, I contacted this particular MOD section. After the preliminary conversation I was asked if I was prepared to sell my investigation report to them; and later in the course of the conversation, when I suggested sharing information, citing the national security aspects, I was asked if I was prepared to sign a security agreement concerning this issue. I was further asked to prepare a proposal and submit it to them. When I inquired about some landing reports, I was asked to specify the date of the particular cases I had in mind. Although this is a component of the MOD, it is not situated in Whitehall. Neither is it Defence Intelligence 55 (DI55), though sources within DI55 have been helpful in other investigations of mine. Though several individuals in the UK who have witnessed serious UFO cases have been visited by government officials, the MOD has repeatedly denied the existence of such officials. Sometimes in uniform but mostly in civilian clothes, these officials have approached witnesses asking them not to discuss what they have seen with the public or the media. UFO folklore has termed them the Men in Black (MIB). The section in charge of such investigations is Aerospace Intelligence within the MOD. The MOD, and Air Staff 2(a) in particular, have been the chief focus of the search for British information on UFOs. But examination of the MOD's old files shows the absence of any Royal Navy reports. There is also a component within the Admiralty in charge of UFO cases reported at sea, about which researchers have little knowledge. I have also dealt with this component, though I do not know its name. How the Department of Defense treats UFOs Due to its size the US Department of Defence (DoD)does not have a single unit to handle UFO reports. Apart from the many departments known to UFO researchers run from the Pentagon, there is another component about which no public information is available. In the course of studying a serious UFO case from the former Soviet Union, I was advised by the National Reconnaissance Office(NRO) staff in the Pentagon to contact Pentagon House. (2) Located outside the Pentagon, Pentagon House showed immense interest and I was asked to provide them with the raw material I had. All the official records made public under the UFO title are unevaluated reports gathered through various human intelligence means. These reports always quote the term UFO, as it has been relayed to them by sources. Mostly these sources are civilians, unaware of the current official terminology used by the US government. The US military uses two main terms in compiling and studying the UFO subject: Uncorrelated Targets (UCT), for earth-bound unidentified objects, and Uncorrelated Event Reports (UER) for space related events. I wrote to North American Aerospace Defense Command, NORAD, about their terminology. They replied: 'Historically, the term UFO was used by the Air Force starting in 1947 and ending in 1974 with the shelving of the "Blue Book" project. We all know what the term UFO means, we just don't use it.....The specific term "UFO" is not used by this command even though you could say that this term would equate to UTR [unknown track report], either an uncorrelated event or an unknown track, since an unidentified flying object could be considered either.'(3) Further, I was told, 'Uncorrelated Events Reports (UERs), which are space related events on the United States Space Command (USSPACECOM) side of the house, are always classified SECRET.' (4) Uncorrelated Targets are categorised as: Significant UCTs, Nonsignificant UCTs, Critical UCTs, and False UCTs. (5) Copies of any serious UCT event are sent to the Missions Systems Integration Board (MSIB). MSIB is composed of all NORAD and US Space Command directorates and senior level representatives from Naval Space Command, Army Space Command and Air Force Space Command. (6) The regulations governing the UFO topic is USR 55-12, Space Surveillance Network (SSN) of June 1 1992, classified by multiple sources. 'This regulation provides policy and guidance for operations of the worldwide Space Surveillance Network (SSN). It applies to Headquarters US Space Command; the component commands, Headquarters Air Force Space Command; the Naval Space Command, and Army Space Command; the Space Surveillance Centre (SSC), the Alternative Space Surveillance Centre (ASSC); and the SSN sensors except RAF Fyling dales. RAF Fyling dales follows guidance specified in SR55-122/88771/1/GE(s), Joint USAF/RAF Operations Manual (JOM) Ballistic Missiles Early Warning System (BMEWS) Site III, RAF, England.' (7) In conjunction with this regulation exists US Space Command Regulation 55-20, Warning Verification of Hostile Space Events, dated 31 January 1990, classified secret. 'This regulation establishes procedures to provide timely and accurate status reporting, warning and verification of hostile space events to National Command Authorities (NCA), collateral agencies, space system owners and operators, and defense forces from Headquarters, US Space Command, Space Defense Operations Center (SPADOC).' Although the US Space Command is the Office of Primary Responsibility (OPR) '...for records relating to Uncorreletated Targets....the evaluations [of reports are] made by the Command Director and the Air Defense Operations Center of Cheyenne Mountain Air Station on the Unknown Track data'. (8) The Air Defense Operations Center (ADOC) is a NORAD entity. (9) All Unknown Track Reports (UTRs) are recorded on NORAD's Form 61, and kept for five years. Data from these files, in summary form, is sent to all relevant government agencies on a need-to-know basis. (10) Obtaining such records is a legal impossibility because while 'the Aerospace Analysis Directorate [of US Space Command] does perform analysis on NORAD Unknown Track Reports....they perform their analysis under the auspices of their NORAD role, utilising a dedicated NORAD data base' - and NORAD is exempt from the Freedom of Information Act. (11) Unknowns During the period January to August 1996 NORAD reported 23 Unknowns, some after scrambling interceptor fighters. For example, between January 2 and February 12 there were three scramble attempts, for three events. In two separate instances two F15s were scrambled and the subjects could not be identified. Similarly, on February 10 two F16s were scrambled but failed to identify the object. (12) NORAD commented, 'Normally 80% of NORAD unknowns are identified. The remaining 20% continues to be called un-known and no further action is taken.' (13) Another category of reports come from USAF personnel. These reports might be generated by using the International Urgency Signal, PAN, or by ground relay of airborne reports or post-landing reports using FLASH procedure, and are governed by Communication Instructions Reporting Vital Intelligence Sightings(CIRVIS). These reports are maintained in places such as Tyndall Air Force Base (1st Air force), Elmendorf Air Force Base (11th Air force) and NORAD's Canadian headquarters in Ontario, Canada. These reports are compiled in accordance with the Air Force Manual, where it states: 'Report the following specific sightings: *Hostile or unidentified aircraft which appears directed against the United States, Canada, or their forces. *Missiles *Unidentified Flying Objects *Hostile Flying Objects *Hostile or Unidentified military surface missiles or sub-marines.' (14) As to any specific terms adopted by NORAD in the course of pilot/radar control communication exchange for UFOs, the answer is 'Unknown Track'. (15) I asked NORAD if the recovery of downed UFOs was within their jurisdiction - if so which particular teams, or components deal with it? If not, which other particular teams or components, and from which command has such authority? The answer was:'We do not deal with down unknowns, which you refer to as UFOs. Normally, local law enforcement officials and/or security personnel from the nearest military installation get involved with downed aircraft etc. until positive identification is made. Then the vehicle is turned over to its primary agency and/or organisation.' In contrast to the MOD's repeated assertion that UFOs are not considered a threat to national security, for the US Government 'all unknown tracks are considered a possible threat until proven otherwise.' (16) NORAD informed me that although there are no British forces assigned to NORAD facilities, 'the British Ministry of Defence does interface and cooperate with NORAD and the United State Space Command(USSPACECOM), on military space systems as they provide support to the warfighter.' (17) Although 'there are no NORAD facilities outside the Continental United States (CONUS) and Canada....NORAD does receive classified data from England.' (18) Footnotes 1. My archives contain several military intelligence records of unevaluated reports on UFO conferences and symposia. Most of the better known UFO organizations have deep, as well as casual, penetration by both military and intelligence agencies. This has been brought to my attention on several occasions by individuals who were assigned to such missions. 2. This information was made available to me prior to the declassification of the NRO in 1993. 3. NORAD (North American Aerospace Defense Command)letter to author 19 December 1995. 4. NORAD letter to author November 13 1995 5. US Space Command correspondence 28 April 1993 to author 6 US Space Command letter to author 7 April 1994 6. US Space Command letter to author 7 April 1994 7. US Space Command Regulation USR 55-12, Space Surveillance Network (SSN) June 1 1992 8. US Space Command correspondence with author, 21 July 1995. 9. Ibid. 'The North American Aerospace Defense command (NORAD) is a bi-national Command established by international agreement (33 United States Treaties 1277), and is subject to control by both US and Canadian executive agencies. It is not a US Government agency as defined in the ACT, and consequently, it is not subject to the US Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).' 10. NORAD letter to author 13 November 1995. 11. NORAD letter to author 24 August 1995. 12. Current NORAD records in the author's possession. 13. NR 55-1, Aerospace Reporting System has been revised and altered to 55-14, written by NORAD operators (Nj30G) in the Space Control Centre of Cheyenne Mountain Air Station. NORAD communications of 3 and 13 May 1994 to author. 14. Air Force Manual 10-206, September 1 1995, Operational Reporting, chapter 5, para 5.7.3 15. NORAD letter of 16 December 1995 to author 16. Ibid. 17. NORAD communication with author 17 March 1994 18. Ibid. NORAD also informed me that 'Russia's aerospace command is called the Strategic Rocket Forces, some aspects of their command is similar to NORAD and the USSPACECOM to include surveillance and tracking, early warning and related areas. But their command also includes operational control of all strategic and defensive ballistic missiles.' Copyright Lobster, http://www.knowledge.co.uk/xxx/lobster/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 12 Pics of Meier's 'Asket' on Dean Martin Show From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch) Date: 11 May 98 21:29:00 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 07:40:12 -0400 Subject: Pics of Meier's 'Asket' on Dean Martin Show Hello Errol, Hello List, You can now see photographs taken from the 'Dean Martin Show' video on the webpage of Germany's UFO magazine, the UFO-KURIER! Jochen Kopp, the chief editor of the UFO-KURIER, managed to establish these very impressive photographs on his site. Although it is totally under construction, at least the Billy Meier page works! Go to: http://www.ufos.de Once you have reached the site, please click on " Aktuelle Nachrichten" (engl.: latest news) on the left hand side of the page, then you'll reach the Meier page with the German text on the Kal Korff/Luc Buergin interview with Calliope Meier and Korff's work with the tv documentary which is now scheduled in July this year. In the middle of this German text - it is the German translation of the text we have posted here in English - you find the photographs from the 'Dean Martin Show' and below - the direct comparison with the photographs of "Asket" which Billy Meier claims to have taken "aboard a Pleiadian star ship"). Jochen Kopp informed me today that after the release of the latest issue of the UFO-KURIER there is an increasing amount of mail coming in stating that, independently, the writers of these letters immediately recognized 'Asket' from the Billy Meier book. You must know, that for copyright reasons, in the print version of UFO-KURIER, the photographs of 'Asket' alledgedly taken by Mr. Meier were not included, only the photographs from the 'Dean Martin Show'. So this hardens the evidence: even without having the direct comparison as you have on the UFO-KURIER webpage, the readers of the magazine recognized the same - fraud. Though you maybe dislike this or that name, or this or that researcher - this time, with the Korff/Buergin/UFO-KURIER cooperation, we have contributed to the unmasking of another guru. Enjoy! Joachim Koch, Hans-Juergen Kyborg *Homepage International Roswell Initiative, Germany:* > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jkoch1 < *Udate May: News about Billy Meier*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 12 Re: 'Alien Interview' Available as..... From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 06:47:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 07:46:29 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Alien Interview' Available as..... >Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 18:09:50 -0500 (CDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: james rhodes <sharkey@texas.net> >Subject: Re: 'Alien Interview' Available as..... <snip> >It "almost" looks like >a puppet being repositioned so the nurse team can take their >positions. This may be nothing more than a misinterpretation >on my part. I must say however, that the opening of the mouth >during the spasms, looks very natural, not puppet-like at all. >I also recorded the voice of "Victor" and sped up the tape >approx two times (just under that if I recall), and the voice >shared a remarkable resemblance to that of Bob Lazar >(recorded from the same tape). Go figure? >What this implies is open to interpretation. It may mean >nothing. My guess is, unless someone comes forward, it will >remain an enigma for sometime. Perhaps it is a decoy? I doubt >that it has made much money. > >james Yes, I think it probably is a puppet. Others have said that "Victor" is Bob Lazar based on more sophisticated voice analysis. If so, this pretty much blows any credibility that Lazar may have had with anyone. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 12 Re: The Paradigm Clock From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net> Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 09:24:18 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 11:59:01 -0400 Subject: Re: The Paradigm Clock >Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 08:01:49 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Paradigm Clock >>From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia] >>Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 16:28:25 EDT >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Paradigm Clock >Us realists want the truth just as much as you believers, Joe. >We just don't see any signs of great revelations any time soon. Bob, And who would that WE include Bob (aside from yourself that is)? And what are the criteria used to decribe a 'realist'? What are the credentials? Could a realist be a believer with cynicism or a debunker using prozac? Are there any self-appointed unrealists in Ufology ? Please be more specific. Like most mortals, I do not really know who I am. I hope you can cast light on wether I am part of _them_, of _us_, or _you_. I tried knocking at those different doors but they always have been highly selective clubs. Serge Salvaille
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 12 Ray Santilli V Bob Kiviat From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 23:42:26 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 11:55:23 -0400 Subject: Ray Santilli V Bob Kiviat Hi all, I just thought you might be interested to know that in either May or June TV producer Bob Kiviat (Alien Autopsy - Fact or Fiction ?) will be producing for FOX a documentary on hoaxes. In this program he will feature a segment on the Alien Autopsy film now labelling it as a hoax. As yet I do not have a date for the broadcast nor do I know a great deal of the program's content. What I can say is that I recently solicited a response from Ray Santilli regarding Bob Kiviat and his new program. It is as follows: Dear Philip (dated 9 April l998), Thank you for your fax today. Firstly I ackowledge that Bob (Kiviat) will make an entertaining show but no matter what we come up with he will still direct his show along the lines dictated by the commissioning from FOX. In other words he will make a show about hoaxes and include the AA story no matter what. It's the kind of person he is. I am not concerned about any additional information that Bob may have as it cannot effect the AA film, I include in that anything he thinks he may have found relating to the Tent Footage. The AA film is untouchable!! For your information, Bob does not have the right to use the film or any materials that are owned or controlled by this company therefore permission to use clips of the film will be refused. In addition notice will be served on all concerned that any use of our materials will be treated as a breach of copyright (copyright which has already been ackowledged by both Bob and FOX). Secondly when the time is right (after Bob's transmission) we will respond so comprehensively that Bob can only find himself extremely embarrassed. For my part I am sorry to see Bob jump ship as he would have been my choice to make the show relating to the 'bigger' story. Kind regsrds, Ray Santilli. --- Please make of it what you will. No doubt you will have the opportunity to view Kiviat's new shopw long before I do, but I hope someone will make me a copy on video so that I can see it for myself. All the best, Philip. www.beyondroswell.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 12 Re: Ray Santilli V Bob Kiviat From: Jon Dyton <jon@wibble.powernet.co.uk> Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 18:37:37 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 14:32:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Ray Santilli V Bob Kiviat >Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 23:42:26 +0000 >From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Ray Santilli V Bob Kiviat > Dear Philip (dated 9 April l998), > Thank you for your fax today. Firstly I ackowledge that Bob > (Kiviat) will make an entertaining show but no matter what we > come up with he will still direct his show along the lines > dictated by the commissioning from FOX. In other words he will > make a show about hoaxes and include the AA story no matter what. > It's the kind of person he is. > I am not concerned about any additional information that Bob may > have as it cannot effect the AA film, I include in that anything > he thinks he may have found relating to the Tent Footage. The AA > film is untouchable!! Yep and we all know why, don't we. Put the film out for independent scrutiny or shut up. But will he (Two letter answer only please)? Boring Ray, Boring. > For your information, Bob does not have the right to use the film > or any materials that are owned or controlled by this company > therefore permission to use clips of the film will be refused. In > addition notice will be served on all concerned that any use of > our materials will be treated as a breach of copyright (copyright > which has already been ackowledged by both Bob and FOX). Good, take it to court. If its real, then its government property. No copyright - If its faked, then its his copyright. But he'll have to admit its faked. I'll even donate =A310 to the defence. > Secondly when the time is right (after Bob's transmission) we > will respond so comprehensively that Bob can only find himself > extremely embarrassed. For my part I am sorry to see Bob jump > ship as he would have been my choice to make the show relating to > the 'bigger' story. Oh shut up. Santilli's always "going to". Always about to. He wouldn't talk about it last year, something about not wasting the rest of his life on one lot of film. Bob won't be embarrassed. Santilli won't put the film up for scrutiny and independent analysis. He's made his money, so its not like he's got much to lose, financialy, the only thing is face, or a prosecution if it turns out to be some sort of snuff movie.... The man's a prat-about artist, Heck I don't like Rupert Murdoch, but if he goes to court over this one, then I think he's doing a public service. Doesn't Santilli, sound like the Bloke from ACC here? Always 'about to', but never will, has evidence, but we can't see it. Santilli should clear off, and go back to counting his money. It's put up or shut up time. Visit the Web's best UFO site http://area51.icom.net/s4/ ICQ NO 1689852, For UFO, Spurs, Kiss, industrial, CM2, boxing and Retro Gamming conversation! "Supporting Chelsea is like going shopping with your mum"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 12 Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? From: "Tim Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 08:02:08 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 16:37:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? > From: Darren Danks <darren@darrend.demon.co.uk> > To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Tim Matthew's - Ruining ufology? > Tim, > Your recent posting (rant) was quite a good one this time. I > enjoy having a good chuckle now and then. > Why do you keep insisting on posting so many back-biting and > attacking messages? You are making ufology look like more of a > laughing stock than the house of commons!! We should all be > working together to find the ultimate truth and NOT fighting with > each other. <snip> Dear Errol and Researchers, This situation is a most unfortunate one and I have already emailed the various parties about this. Darren has emailed me and said that we will have to agree to disagree although the heat has obviously gone out of the situation. In any case, as anyone who has ever met me knows, my focus always has been, and always will be upon UFO research - no matter how unpopular its' conclusions may be.... Tim Matthews ----------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 13 Re: Pics of Meier's 'Asket' on Dean Martin Show From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 15:28:11 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 06:40:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Pics of Meier's 'Asket' on Dean Martin Show >From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch) >Date: 11 May 98 21:29:00 +0000 >Subject: Billy Meier: Photos available on UFO-KURIER webpage! >To: updates@globalserve.net >You can now see photographs taken from the 'Dean Martin Show' >video on the webpage of Germany's UFO magazine, the UFO-KURIER! >Jochen Kopp, the chief editor of the UFO-KURIER, managed to >establish these very impressive photographs on his site. Although >it is totally under construction, at least the Billy Meier page >works! >Go to: >http://www.ufos.de >In the middle of this German text - it is the German translation of >the text we have posted here in English - you find the photographs >from the 'Dean Martin Show' and below - >the direct comparison with the photographs of "Asket" which Billy >Meier claims to have taken "aboard a Pleiadian star ship"). I doubt that very many are interested in Koch's attempt to make one face seem like another, but if any are... . Does anyone recall when he or Korff were claiming that Meier's photo of Asket was that of an unidentified model? Now the claim is that this photo was of a gal on the Dean Martin show of the 1970s. They have come up with a face with a hairdo looking nearly identical to that shown in the Asket photograph. But is that enough to identify one person with another? It seems not. Try taking some measurements; though it helps if you have a larger photo of Asket's face. Consider the ratio of the width of the nose near its tip, just above the nostrils, to the width of the mouth. For Asket it is 0.87 +/- a couple percent. For the D-M girl, it is 0.78. Asket has a relatively wide nose and relatively narrow mouth and chin. Or consider the width W of the head, excluding ears, at the height of the tip of the nostrils; then consider the distance L from the same tip of the nostrils to the bottom of the chin. For Asket with mouth closed I find the ratio L/W = 0.57; for the D-M girl with mouth open pretty far I find L/W = 0.58. Now consider L/W for their photo of Asket with her mouth open somewhat: L/W = 0.63 +/- a couple percent. A distinct difference: Asket's ratio L/W is the greater. Or consider that Asket's ear lobes do show up prominently, while those of the D-M girl do not. (These are obviously her earlobes, not locks of hair.) Or consider that Asket has "squirrel's" cheeks, which show up best on the shadowed side of her face, while the D-M girl's photo shows no sign of this. Granted, however, Koch's friends, who are still desperately seeking to debunk Meier 23 years later after his Swiss contacts began, did find a photo of a girl with the right hairdo! Finally, consider that Wendelle Stevens knows the identity of the woman who, when she was a girl at her grandfather's ashram in India where Meier was visiting awhile when he had contacts with Asket in 1964, was a witness to having seen Asket with Meier when he was there. She was 10 at the time. Later in life she learned of Meier's whereabouts and visited him a few years ago. At that time she recognized Asket from Meier's photo of her. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 13 'The American Funeral Director' on Glenn Dennis From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 03:46:05 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 06:44:23 -0400 Subject: 'The American Funeral Director' on Glenn Dennis From the files of Beyond Boundaries, a very well-known UFO research organization, via Sightings On Radio's homepage. URL: http://www.sightings.com/ufo/embalm.htm Stig ******* Embalming ET: A Practitioner's Close Encounter From The American Funeral Director Issue Of November 1994 From Joyce Murphy In the summer of 1947 Glenn Dennis was a fountain of information about embalming and embalming fluid, since he had just graduated from San Francisco Mortuary College. A lifelong Roswell, New Mexico, resident, Mr. Dennis, today 68 years old, recalls that he began his 35 years in the funeral business by going to work for the local funeral director as a car washer, a "go-fer," and eventually an apprentice. Mr. Dennis served as chairman of the New Mexico State Board of Funeral Directors and Embalmers for a time. It was during his tenure that New Mexico first required college study as a requirement for licensing in that state. Though just starting out in the business, Mr. Dennis might have been just the right person to answer the phone just after lunch on Tuesday, July 8, 1947, because an older practitioner, for whom the textbooks were a distant memory, would not have been able to answer the questions about embalming and embalming fluid, and the handling of deceased remains that the U.S. government asked Glenn Dennis that day. When the phone at Ballard Funeral Home rang, Mr. Dennis found the mortuary officer at Roswell Army Air Base on the other end of the line: "This is just a hypothetical situation," he began. "But do you have any three-foot or four-foot long hermetically sealed caskets?" "Yes, we have four feet," Glenn Dennis answered. "How many do you have?" "One." "How soon before you could get more?" "If we called the warehouse in Amarillo, Texas, before 3 p.m. today, they can have them here tomorrow morning. Is there some kind of a problem?" Mr. Dennis asked. The funeral home where he worked had the government contract with the base to handle deaths, including air crashes. "No, this is just for our information." The call ended. Mr. Dennis went back to work. About an hour later, the same mortuary officer called back. "How do you handle bodies that have been exposed out in the desert for four or five days?" he asked, again assuring Glenn there was no crash. This was just a "hypothetical" situation. They were just gathering information for their files. The man also wanted to know what embalming fluid did to tissue, what embalming fluid was made of, what to do to close holes in bodies made by predators, how best to pick up such remains. Glenn anwered all questions, and his performance was no doubt impressive and a credit to his profession -- right out of embalming school! Nevertheless., Glenn's curiousity was piqued. "Just call us for a situation like that!" Mr. Dennis pointed ou to the officer. "Is there some kind of crash?" "No, no, just gathering information for our files." Glenn's firm had handled up to 20 bodies at a times in crashes at the base. The firm had constructed an addition next to the embalming room just for those situations. About an hour after that strange call, an opportunity presented itself for a trip to the base. A young airman had injured his hand in a motorcycle accident. Now, Glenn was called upon in the capacity of his firm's ambulance service to transport this man back to base. The airman was able to sit in the front seat of the hearse-ambulance with Glenn. The guards at the gate, familiar with Glenn, readily let the hearse through. Glenn was a familiar figure at the base -- even being an honorary member of its Officers Club. He drove his ambulance to the base hospital and backed up to the loading area, as was his customary procedure. This time, however, he noted there were two field ambulances in the spot he preferred, so he parked next to them. He and the airman got out and started into the hospital. As Glenn passed the field ambulances, which were guarded by an MP, he looked into the open back end. Inside both ambulances was an enormous amount of a silvery, metalliclike material, which seemed to be as thin as aluminum foil, but not as flexible. Glenn particularly noticed two chunks, each of which seemed to be between 3 feet and 2.5 feet high, and "curved like the bottom of a canoe." Glenn also noticed odd markings, in some sort of a "hieroglyphic -like" script that was totally unfamiliar. Mr. Dennis sauntered down the hall of the hospital, heading to a soda machine -- as was customary after bringing in a patient. Here Glenn had a nasty encounter with an unfamiliar officer. "Looks like you've got an air crash. Should I go back to town and get my equipment ready?" Glenn casually asked the officer he saw in the hallway. "Who the hell are you?" was the response. Glenn introduced himself and explained his role in handling crash victims. The response to this was an order to get out of the hospital and off the base. Glenn gladly complied and turned to head back down the hall. He had not gone far when he heard someone scream after him. "Bring that (man) back here!" And two MPs appeared from somewhere, grabbed Glenn, and took him back to a red-haired officer. "Now don't you go back to Roswell and start shooting off your mouth about how there's been a crash out here or...." A series of threats followed. Glenn said, "You can't talk to me like that. I'm a civilian. You haven't got any say over me." "Listen, undertaker, somebody's gonna be picking your bones out of the sand." And the officer ordered the MPs to personally escort Glenn back to the funeral home, which they did. On the way down the hall, however, Mr. Dennis had an interesting encounter with a female nurse, he knew. A door opened to a supply room as Glenn and the MPs went down the hallway. Out stepped the nurse, whom Glenn had dealt with at the hospital. She carried a towel over the lower part of her face. Glenn at first thought she had been crying. "Glenn, what are you doing here? You're going to get shot!" she exclaimed. "Well, I'm leaving." He pointed meaningfully to his armed escort. He noticed that the nurse was followed out of the supply room by two unfamiliar men, both of whom also had towels over their noses and mouths. Farther into the supply room Glenn noticed gurneys. The next day, that same nurse called Glenn at the funeral home. The two of them arranged to meet at the Officers Club. It was there that she unfolded for Glenn an extraordinary tale -- a flying saucer had crashed out in the desert and the Army had recovered three dead aliens. Two of the bodies were badly mangled, both by the crash and by predators. One body was in fairly good condition. All the while, she kept becoming more and more emotional. Finally, she was openly crying in the club. Glenn thought it best to take her back to the nurses' quarters on base. After he dropped off the nurse, he never saw or heard from her again. His later inquiries produced the information that she was transferred to England. He obtained an address in England, wrote to her, and received back the letters, which were stamped "addressee deceased." He heard that she was killed in a plane crash. Talking to Glenn that afternoon in the Officer's Club, the nurse provided anatomical details. She said that they were little, smaller than an adult human. She said that the hands were different, too, that they only had four fingers with the middle two protruding longer than the others. She saw no opposoable thumb. She also said that the anatomy of the arm was different. The bone from the shoulder to the elbow was shorter than the bone from the elbow to the wrist. The heads were larger than a human's. The eyes were large and concave shape. She said that all the features, the nose and the ears and the eyes, were slightly concave. The nurse went on to draw a small sketch of the alien bodies, using the back of a prescription paper. It showed that the bodies had four digits on each hand. The end of each digit consited of a sort of pad. Mr. Dennis eventually lost this sketch, but has reproduced his own version. (will be sent a few minutes later than this e-mail) The nurse also stated that the two men following her out of the storage room were pathologists from Walter Reed hospital in Washington, D.C. The nurse explained the towels over their faces. "Until they got those bodies frozen, the smell was so bad you couldn't get within 100 feet of them without gagging." It was when the nurse stepped out of the room where she had been assisting two doctors on the bodies, to get some air, that she ran into Mr. Dennis. She explained that even the doctors were getting sick, and the smell was so bad they had to turn off the air conditioning to keep it from spreading throughout the hospital. Soon, they gave up trying to work under such conditions and completed the preparation of the bodies in a hangar. Stanton T. Friedman, a nuclear physicist who has written several books and many articles on UFOs, first brought the UFO crash at Roswell to the attention of the public. Since the late 1960s, Mr Friedman, now 59 years old and a resident of New Brunswick, Canada, has been an active researcher, writer, and lecturer on UFOs. He has spoken at over 600 colleges in the United States, Canada, and Europe. He has been a guest on numerous radio and television shows, such as Sally Jessie Ralphael and Tom Snyder. He first heard about the Roswell incident while in Louisiana for a radio interview. Someone at the radio station told him about the late Jesse Marcel, who then lived in nearby Houma, La. Marcel told Mr. Friedman that he had been heavily involved in the initial retrieval fo the wreckage and alien bodies at Roswell. This information spurred Mr. Friedman to investigate the incident and the result has been three books, numerous articles and a 1989 NBC TV feature on "Unsolved Mysteries." It was while he was in New Mexico to film that 1989 TV episode that Mr. Friedman first met Glenn Dennis. Mr. Dennis did not seek out Mr. Friedman, but rather Mr. Friedman used his research skill to track him down. Mr. Friedman reasoned that there must have been professional mortuary knowledge used by someone if alien bodies were recovered. Therefore, he asked sources whether military or private morticians were used on the base in 1947. When told that private morticians were used, he found out who -- and that led him to Glenn Dennis. Mr. Dennis refused to appear on the "Unsolved Mysteries" show, but he was very willing to speak with Mr. Friedman. Today, Mr. Dennis is involved with the UFO Museum and Research Center in Roswell. This facility opened last year and has already been visited by more than 18.000 people. The center has numerous books, research materials, and exhibit items. Walter Haut, the 1957 press relations officer at Roswell Air Base, is also involved in the museum. It was Mr. Haut who released a press statement at about 11 a.m. on July 8, 1947. "The many rumors regarding the flying discs became a reality yesterday when the intelligence office of the 509th Bomb Group of the Eighth Air Force, Roswell Army Air Field, was fortunate enough to gain possession of a disc through the cooperation of one of the local ranchers and the sheriff's office of Chaves County. "The flying object landed on a ranch near Roswell sometime last week. Not having phone facilities, the rancher stored the disc until such time as he was able to contact the sheriff's office, who in turn notified Major Jesse A. Marcell of the 509th Bomb Group Intelligence Office. "Action was immediately taken and the disc was picked up at the rancher's home. It was inspected at the Roswell Army Air Field and subsequently loaned by Major Marcel to higher headquarters." Mr. Haut today maintains that he issued this statement at the request of the base commander, Col. William H. Blanchard. Blanchard, according to Mr. Haut, was very interested in maintaining good relations between the base and the Roswell community. "If anything unusual happened, or anything he felt the community should know about, he would call me and say, 'Get this thing out.' He did that with many, many things." There is no doubt in Mr. Haut's mind that Blandhard and Marcel were convinced the debris found by the rancher came from another planet. There is also no doubt in Mr. Haut's mind today that Blanchard did not originate the idea of contacting the press: "Do you think somebody was ordering Blanchard to order you to issue the press release?" "Yes, I do," said Mr. Haut in a telephone interview on January 28, 1994. He took the press release to radio station KGFL and the Roswell Morning Dispatch, which in turn communicated the story to the wire services. Within an hour, telephone lines into Roswell and the base were jammed with calls from all over the world. Art McQuiddy, then editor of the Roswell Morning Dispatch, reports that the reaction was almost immediate. "By the time Haut had gotten to me it hadn't been 10 minutes and the phones starting ringing. I didn't get off the phone until late that afternoon. I had calls from London and Paris and Rome and Hong Kong that I can remember," he said. Within hours, an official retraction was released by the government. Jesse Marcel was brought in to prop up the official "cover story" that what was found was a weather balloon. Marcel, in his later years, however, was very willing to admit that he was ordered by military superiors to make untrue statements. The Roswell base was then key in the nuclear bomb strategy of the U.S. government. The Cold War was jsut starting, and World War II had jsut ended. In those days, when Uncle Sam said shut up few people asked why. This was particularly the case in New Mexico, where such sensitve military installations as Los Alamos and White Sands were located. The next morning at 6 o'clock, the sheriff went to Glenn's parents' home and spoke to his father, saying that Glenn "might" be in trouble. Glenn's parents related that the Chavez County sheriff reported that the military had interviewed him. They became worried their son was in trouble. The Roswell Daily Record of Tuesday, July 8, and Wednesday, July 9, 1947, spans the course of the initial press flurry turning to a cover story. "RAAF Captures Flying Saucer on Ranch in Roswell Region," trumpeted the Tuesday headline. The story stated that Marcel's recovery of a disc retrieved "on a ranch in the Roswell vicinity, after an unidentified rancher had notified Sheriff George Wilcox, here, that he had found the insturment on his premises." Mr. and Mrs. Dan Wilmot of Roswell are also included in the same story, recounting their sightings of an oval object that was about 15 to 20 feet in diameter and about five feet thick, traveling at 400 to 500 miles per hour in a northwesterly direction. "In appearance it looked oval in shape like two inverted saucers faced mouth to mouth, or like two old type wash bowls placed together in the same fashion. The entire body glowed as though light were showing through from inside, though not like it would be if a light were merely underneath," they said. Roswellians were surveyed by the paper as to their opinions of the story and most thought it was some sort of secret government craft. The next issue of the Daily Record gives insight into the excitement stirred up worldwide by Tuesday's story. Sheriff Wilcox is photographed talking on the phone to "a high English official." However, the story describes the incident as "the world comedy, which developed over the purported finding of a flying saucer. "The numerous calls from reporters around the world are mentioned. Wednesday's headline sets the overall tone: "Gen Ramey Empties Roswell Saucer." Brig Gen. Roger M. Ramey, head of the Eighth Air Force, called the remains a weather balloon, the paper reported. Weather experts were quoted to the effect that this was the most likely explanation. A bizarrely written UFO sighting from Iran is placed above Ramey's explanation, as if to ridicule the flying saucer story. The rancher who found the object, W.W. "Mac" Brazel, is quoted saying, "If I find anything else besides a bomb they are going to have a hard time getting me to say anything about it." The object is described throughout the article as "a balloon." This, on the surface of it, seemed to put the matter to rest. It is interesting to note a tiny item just above the Brazel story, which mentions a meeting between U.S. Senator Carl A. Hatch, of New Mexico, and President Truman on July 9. While it was described as being "just a personal visit," a former employee of the Roswell radio station who interviewed Mac Brazel said that the station owner received a call from the office of New Mexico's other U.S. Senator, Dennis Chavez, warning him not to broadcast the interview if he wanted his license renewed. It is now known that Lt. Gen Nathan F. Twining, the commander of Air Materiel Command, headquartered at Wright Field in Ohio, made a sudden visit to Alamogordo Army Air Field in New Mexico on July 7, 1947. This was a short drive from Roswell. On the next day, Glenn Dennis received his mysterious phone calls and made his visit to the base. Twining later on became the head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Neight Mr. Haut nor Col Blanchard suffered any career repercussions. Mr. Haut, prior to the incident, had already decided to retire from the military and settle in Roswell, which he did in 1948. Col. Blanchard went on to become a general. Marcel went on to do research on the Soviet nuclear program. When President Truman announced that the Soviet Union had exploded a nuclear bomb, the report he read to the public was written by Jesse Marcel. As to where the bodies of the aliens are today, Stanton Friedman says: "It is anybody's guess." The nurse who spoke with Glenn in the Officer's Club said she believed the bodies ended up in Ohio. Numerous rumors have circulated for years concerning the alleged presence of alien bodies at Wright Patterson Air Force Base near Dayton, Ohio. Stanton Friedman believes the bodies may have been studied for a time at a private clinic in Albuquerque, N.M. It was also reported that the Fort Worth, Texas, headquarters of the Eighth Air Force and Gen. Ramey, was the first destination of the crate containing the bodies after it left Roswell. The bombardier of the plane that transported the crate reported the flight was met in Fort Worth by, among others, a man the bombardier personally knew to be a mortician. The identity of this mortician is unknown. INSERT: The mortician is known as his wife is still alive and well in Ft. Worth, Texas, and remembers her husband being called out to Ft. Worth Army Air Field that night because their funeral home had the contract for any casualties involving needs of a mortician. Accompanying her husband that evening was a family friend, who was the dentist with the base contract for bodies with teeth. And, when recently a building was about to be torn down on that base most recently known as Carswell Air Force Base and now the Joint Reserve Base Naval Air Station Ft. Worth, the Texas State historical commission represented by 3 persons showed up at the base saying "No, you cannot tear this building down as it has historical signficance and value. It was the building which the alien bodies were unloaded on the west dock the night there were brought in from Roswell after the UFO crash there. And, since the bodies were stored for a time in this building before being shipped elsewhere this building has historical importance to Texas. The historical commission was ignored and the building was torn down in April of 1998. Pieces of the original floor of this building have been saved from the bulldozers and while supplies of these chips last they are available from Beyond Boundaries free of charge to members who would like a chunk of this bizarre history. For more information see http://www.beyondboundaries.org. Back to article: However, the identity of the other mortician who played a role in this event is well-known. Glenn Dennis has neither sought notoriety nor tried to hide from researchers. He has an interesting story to tell, as do others involved in the same event now willing to talk about it in their sunset years. Would arterial embalming work on an extraterrestrial? Embalming fluid uses formalin, which changes the chemical composition of protein by acting on nitrogen. All life forms on earth are protein-based organisms. If alien bodies were recovered, and if they were protein-based organisms, then preservation could have been achieved. No funeral was held for the remains of these stranded travelers. However, the book, "The Roswell Incident", by Charles Berlitz and William L. Moore, contains an account of the government's providing a private viewing for a member of the clergy. This book includes a letter allegedly written on April 19, 1954, which describes a February 20, 1954, visit to Edwards Air Force Base in California by President Eisenhower to view the bodies of alien pilots of a crashed UFO. Bishop (later Cardinal) James F.A. McIntyre of Los Angeles, Edward Nourse of the Brookings Institute, and journalist Franklin Allen were also permitted to view the bodies. The letter goes on to say that Eisenhower was about to "go directly to the people via radio and television" to spill the beans on UFOs. Evidently, he changed his mind, or else the letter is a fraud. It should be mentioned that there is a point of controversy within the community of UFO researchers as to whether there were two or just one UFO crash in New Mexico in July 1947. Stanton Friedman believes that another UFO (with more alien bodies) was recovered on the plains of San Agustin -- about 150 miles to the west of Roswell, New Mexico. It is thought that these two vehicles may have collided. Other UFO researchers -- specifically Donald Schmidt -- believe that the Roswell crash was the only such incident to occur in New Mexico, at that time. Some also believe that after the Roswell crash, a supersecret government group called Majestic 12 was established to oversee all UFO-related events. Mr. Friedman has done extensive research into the subject, the results of which are found in his book "Crash at Corona." He has studied documents allegedly generated by this secret group, and believes them genuine. A made-for-TV movie, "Roswell," was broadcast last July. Mr. Haut was an advisor for the movie. Article submitted from the files of Beyond Boundaries, UFO Research Organization. PO Box 250, Rainbow, TX 76077. To discuss this article contact jmurphy@beyondboundaries.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 13 Re: Army Releases Previously Classified Documents From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com> [Robert Gates] Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 23:35:17 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 06:59:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Army Releases Previously Classified Documents > From: UFOLAWYER1 <UFOLAWYER1@aol.com> [Peter Gersten] > Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 00:07:31 EDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Army Releases Previously Classified Documents > >Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 20:23:54 -0300 > >From: "Stanton T. Friedman" <fsphys@brunnet.net> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Army releases previously classified 'Secret' > > documents to CAUS > Stanton, > Actually after reading only about 100 pages, I find them quite > interesting. Strange that the Army would go to so much trouble > (hundreds of pages of documents documenting many months of > investigation utilyzing countless agents) at the end of 1947 to > find the Horton brothers and question them about flying saucers, > if they already knew (according to Corso) that they were > extraterrestrial in origin. > Peter What you have to understand :) is that Majestic 12 was so highly classified and compartmentalized that the flunky Army investigators didn't have the necessary clearances to even catch a breath of MJ-12 much less Roswell. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 13 Re: 'Alien Interview' Available as..... From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 21:58:29 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 06:56:48 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Alien Interview' Available as..... >Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 06:47:17 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Alien Interview' Available as..... >>Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 18:09:50 -0500 (CDT) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: james rhodes <sharkey@texas.net> >>Subject: Re: 'Alien Interview' Available as..... ><snip> >>It "almost" looks like >>a puppet being repositioned so the nurse team can take their >>positions. This may be nothing more than a misinterpretation >>on my part. I must say however, that the opening of the mouth >>during the spasms, looks very natural, not puppet-like at all. >>I also recorded the voice of "Victor" and sped up the tape >>approx two times (just under that if I recall), and the voice >>shared a remarkable resemblance to that of Bob Lazar >>(recorded from the same tape). Go figure? >>What this implies is open to interpretation. It may mean >>nothing. My guess is, unless someone comes forward, it will >>remain an enigma for sometime. Perhaps it is a decoy? I doubt >>that it has made much money. >Yes, >I think it probably is a puppet. >Others have said that "Victor" is Bob Lazar based on more >sophisticated voice analysis. >If so, this pretty much blows any credibility that Lazar >may have had with anyone. Not haveing seen the video in discussion, I can't comment about it. However, I see that you are not anxious to withhold judgement on the continuing trashing of Bob Lazar. Bob, I would think you would have learned a lesson about credibility, after they way you were treated in Greensboro, North Carolina at the 1996 MUFON Convention. I felt for you at that time...were my "feelings" misplaced? REgards, Mike The fastest way to respond to this message is through the ICQ Network. A message sent this way will go directly to my screen. If you have ICQ you can message me at ICQ#:7508455. If you don't have ICQ you can page me through: My Personal Communication Center: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/7508455 (go there and try it!) Or you can send me a regular e-mail to my EmailExpress address: 7508455@pager.mirabilis.com. Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/ Include your ICQ details in YOUR e-mail signature: http://www.icq.com/emailsig.html. My BBS Telephone Number is: (502) 683-3026 My Fax Number is: (502) 686-7394 My Home Telephone Number is: (502) 683-6811 Michael Christol ----------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 13 NASA Extinguishes Hoagland's 'Smoking Gun'? From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 07:26:16 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 07:24:08 -0400 Subject: NASA Extinguishes Hoagland's 'Smoking Gun'? Received via alt.alien.visitors May 13 at 06.41 local time (GMT + 1 hour). Stig ******* Date: 12 May 1998 23:52:15 GMT From: "Curt van den Heuvel" <heuvelc@primenet.com> Subject: NASA extinguishes Hoagland's "smoking gun"! Message-ID: <6janbf$14f@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> The JPL website has two press releases at http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/target/index.html that were posted yesterday. One of them points out that the Mars Global Surveyor image histogram that first got Richard Hoagland in a flap is actually pretty much the same as (if not better than) the Viking images. The other press release explains why the raw data is only 1024 pixels wide. Short answer - the memory buffer on the Mars Orbiter Camera is limited. The Mars Global Surveyor team chose a narrower resolution of 1024 pixels so that could get a longer strip of data (nearly 44 Km downtrack field), and so increase the chances of imaging the "face". -Curt All you ever wanted to know about the End of the World at: http://www.primenet.com/~heuvelc/skeptic/predictions.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 13 Re: Ray Santilli V Bob Kiviat From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 00:41:40 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 07:13:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Ray Santilli V Bob Kiviat > Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 23:42:26 +0000 > From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Ray Santilli V Bob Kiviat <snip> > Dear Philip (dated 9 April l998), > Thank you for your fax today. Firstly I ackowledge that Bob > (Kiviat) will make an entertaining show but no matter what we > come up with he will still direct his show along the lines > dictated by the commissioning from FOX. In other words he will > make a show about hoaxes and include the AA story no matter what. > It's the kind of person he is. Remember it has been Ray Santilli that has failed to provide proof of his claims. Ray who claimed that we was going to make a few frames of the film available to be sent to Kodak. Ray who has spun web after web until finally when you pressure Ray, he defaults to "Well Volker owns...blah blah. Then you call Volker and get no response. Its called the Ray Volker vicious circle of story telling. > I am not concerned about any additional information that Bob may > have as it cannot effect the AA film, I include in that anything > he thinks he may have found relating to the Tent Footage. The AA > film is untouchable!! Truly that film has been untouchable....i.e. Ray has not let anybody actually touch the actual film. Who knows, for once Ray might be actually telling the truth. Nah, I doubt it. > For your information, Bob does not have the right to use the film > or any materials that are owned or controlled by this company > therefore permission to use clips of the film will be refused. In > addition notice will be served on all concerned that any use of > our materials will be treated as a breach of copyright (copyright > which has already been ackowledged by both Bob and FOX). I for one would love to see Ray file a gigantic law suit. Bob and the Fox attorneys would eat him alive during the discovery phase of the civil suit and we might get some answers that Ray is otherwise unwilling to provide. This will probably end up like alot of Rays earlier stuff: another tale he is telling that won't amount to anything. > Secondly when the time is right (after Bob's transmission) we > will respond so comprehensively that Bob can only find himself > extremely embarrassed. For my part I am sorry to see Bob jump > ship as he would have been my choice to make the show relating to > the 'bigger' story. > Kind regsrds, > Ray Santilli. Bottom line Ray, show us the PROOF. All we have heard is you telling one story (and misleading us as well) after another and when somebody asks you for proof, you just keep on talking and never provide it. Quite frankly Ray you sound similar to a certain computer company and their tales/claims/storys. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 13 Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? From: "sally mandella" <s_mandella@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 20:58:48 PDT Fwd Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 07:09:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? >From: "Tim Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? >Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 08:02:08 +0100 >> From: Darren Danks <darren@darrend.demon.co.uk> >> To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >> Subject: Tim Matthew's - Ruining ufology? >> Tim, >> Your recent posting (rant) was quite a good one this time. I >> enjoy having a good chuckle now and then. >> Why do you keep insisting on posting so many back-biting and >> attacking messages? You are making ufology look like more of a >> laughing stock than the house of commons!! We should all be >> working together to find the ultimate truth and NOT fighting with >> each other. >Dear Errol and Researchers, >This situation is a most unfortunate one and I have already >emailed the various parties about this. Darren has emailed me and >said that we will have to agree to disagree although the heat has >obviously gone out of the situation. >In any case, as anyone who has ever met me knows, my focus always >has been, and always will be upon UFO research - no matter how >unpopular its' conclusions may be.... >Tim Matthews Funny thing, you all call yourselves "researchers" and "ufologists". On what basis? First, a little story: There was a man who worked at the Post Office, whose job it was to search for any envelopes addressed to Santa. He was called a "Santologist", and when he first started his job, he was asked by a local newspaper reporter "Do you believe in Santa Claus?" and he'd answer - "nah...". But, each year, he would be asked to tell his favorite story about his favorite letter to Santa at the Post Office Christmas Party. And year after year, children would come to the Post Office on Christmas, and he'd dress up as Santa and they'd bring letters to him and he'd read them, as part of his public duty. By the time he was nearing retirement, after 45 years, he was so famous at his post office and in his home town, that all the townspeople threw him a huge bash, presented him with dozens of gifts, many of them from grown up "children" who'd sat on his knee during his career, and, it being christmas, the local postmaster dressed up as Santa and delivered him the gifts on a Sled. It was a smashing success. When the man was asked by a local reporter, "So, do you now believe in Santa Claus?" he answered: "nah...". The reporter, crestfallen, said "But, after all these years, and the thousands of children, and searching out all those letters, and now this, why did you do it?" To which the man responded, after a few moments: "Well... It's a living!". ________________________________________________ What's troubling me, is that none of you "researchers" and "ufologists" appear to be drawing a salary! So what are you doing it for? I really want to know.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 13 State Of The List From: "Leanne Martin" <leanne_martin@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 22:51:40 PDT Fwd Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 07:43:17 -0400 Subject: State Of The List Dear EBK and subscribers, As a relative newcomer to the list I have enjoyed reading many of the items that cross my path as a member. However, I must say that I am heartily sick of the constant bickering (he said/she said verbiage) that clutters my in-tray. Most of it from the on-going British debacle. Could those users who have an argument about what another user may or may not have said about them PLEASE TAKE THEIR ARGUING INTO THE PRIVATE DOMAIN!! Sorry for yelling, it's just that I joined this list to partake in serious discourse and not to waste my valuable time with this sort of trash. I suggest that by allowing it to continue it may have contributed to the the drop off in subscriptions as noted in your recent 'State OF The List' address. I'm certainly reconsidering mine... Notwithstanding the above, please keep up the good work. Regards, Ms Leanne Martin Computer Engineer @ WANG GLOBAL Australia
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 13 Obituary: Victor Kucharek From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 03:16:12 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 08:29:47 -0400 Subject: Obituary: Victor Kucharek From: The Detroit Free Press URL: http://www.freep.com/news/obituaries/qother12.htm Stig ******* Other deaths May 12, 1998 <snip> Victor Kucharek Postal clerk, UFO buff Victor T. Kucharek, 69, a retired U.S. post office clerk who was certain that UFOs and aliens exist, died March 16 of colon cancer at William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak. Mr. Kucharek, a longtime Troy resident, worked on an assembly line for Chrysler from 1947 to '68 before he began working at the post office in 1975. He retired in 1990. Along with his first wife, the late Irene, he formed the Detroit UFO Information and Research Center in the 1960s. The group held meetings at banks and the Detroit Institute of Arts, wrote a monthly newsletter and invited several noted UFO believers from around the country. "It wasn't a belief for him," said his wife, Sharon. "He didn't say, I believe that UFOs exist; he said, I know that they exist." Mr. Kucharek said he had spotted a few UFOs during his life, but he never relied on personal stories to convince others that they exist. "He talked about the research and facts, not himself," his wife said. The group faded in the late '70s and had a brief revival in 1981, but no longer exists. Mr. Kucharek served in the U.S. Army during World War II. He later became a dance instructor and taught ballroom dancing and the boogie woogie. In 1976, he became a minister in the Church of Ageless Wisdom. He often crafted wooden toys in his garage for his daughter, Crystal, including a clown and rocking horse. Other survivors include five brothers and two sisters. A memorial service will be 1-5 p.m. Saturday at Boulan Park, off Crooks between 16 Mile and 17 Mile roads, Troy. <snipped> All content =A9 copyright 1998 Detroit Free Press and may not be republished without permission.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 13 Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? From: JOHN LUSHMAN <PHUFON@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 05:09:25 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 08:21:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? >From : Rory Lushman <PHUFON@Compuserve.com> >To : UFO UpDates < Udates@globalserve.net > >Subject : Tim Matthews - Ruining ufology >Date: Wednesday, 13th May 1998, 09.48 Dear All, I feel I have to step in here and offer my penny's worth. I was going to mention much more about Eric Morris but he rang me this morning. I told him I needed to speak to him about current situations within ufology. I had already typed up this post and then had to cut it by half, whilst I arranged a meeting with Eric. However if the meeting does not happen, I will post the part I cut from this message and which is being held in another file. He can't say that I didn't give him chance to talk. So you lucky readers are only getting half the post, "phew, thank God", I hear you cry. Now onto Tim. It was decided to try and unite groups in the Northwest into one organisation. I soon realised that this new "unity" would only have one captain and that was Tim Matthews. I started to doubt the workings of this and let my feelings be known. Tim then emailed me and accused me of being in league with Larry O'Hara, Irene Bott, in fact anyone who had ever dared disagree with him. In his last email, he told me to, (I've cleaned it up for the UpDates), "go away in short, sharp, jerky movements" He even emailed my messages to others for sympathy. I have kept all my emails to Tim and likewise, his replies to me. As Darren quite rightly says, Tim talks at them, not to them, "them" being the audience at conferences. If you disagree with any of Tim's research, you're accused of being an ET lover. Now those people not in the know might just say its sour grapes. However, Tim has managed to fall out with LAPIS, NLUFOIG, NARO, Irene Bott, Nick Redfern, Tony Dodd, Omar Fowler and now us at PHUFON. I don't agree with half of these researchers but as people, some of them are very nice. Just because I don't agree with them, it doesn't mean they're on my death list. Now Tim had posted on UpDates that he is owed money by BUFORA and that they are useless. It was only months ago, that both Tim and Eric were praising BUFORA in newsletters, saying people should put their full support behind BUFORA. Again we see a sudden about turn, why? Easy, because their quest for power within BUFORA has not been realised. As a friend of mine once said," if you can't infiltrate, obliterate" and Tim and Eric seem to be making a concerted effort to damage ufology. Tim is just jumping on the bandwagon in his attack on BUFORA, leave this to people who are in the know and stop using it as a point scorer or to get up peoples rear ends or is he just trying to ass-ert himself. They do both claim that their research is the only good research and that it is only the two of them that are doing anything in ufology. They don't realise that just because others don't shout from the rooftops, it doesn't mean they're not doing anything. Yes, there are idiots in ufology but then hasn't there always been. Back to the merger of Tim and Eric's group. Now follow this carefully:- BUFOSC and LUFOS (Lancashire UFO Society) were going to call the group the "Northwest Federation of Independent Ufologists" but that changed to "Lancashire (and Cheshire for Eric) Paranormal Fortean Society." That's right they're branching out into the paranormal. Tim cannot seem to keep friends for long within ufology, so how long has Eric got as "buddy boy." So when Tim drops Eric, (when his book comes out) will Eric come with doffed cap trying to get back in the good books with groups he's fallen out with. Tim and Eric have started up their own magazine, called 'UFO Times'. They both slagged 'Alien Encounters' and 'Sightings' magazines. Yet what they forget to mention is that they've both written for these mags. They even ripped up a copy of 'Alien Encounters' at one of Eric's meetings. The funny thing was, Eric had written to AE and asked if they were interested in any articles from him. So once again, they say one thing but do another. Since Eric merged with Tim, he has changed. He used to love the subject but now all he ever goes on about, his how crap everyone else is. Remember Eric, treat those with respect on the way up, because you'll meet them on the way down. Eric had a lot of respect in ufology and he's give it all up for one person. I must say it saddens me to see this dedicated ufologist become so bitter towards others. Many of his colleagues are shunning him now. Eric cannot see that he is making enemies of people he used to call friends and all for the sake of Tim Matthews. I hope you think its worth it Eric. Also Tim stated on UpDates that people with questions should email him privately. Why is this? Are people asking too many questions about his research and he wants to keep it off the forums where people would put him on the spot. His research is good but he omits to tackle other UFOs that do not fall into the triangle category. They are probably stealth aircraft but with the amount of sightings across the globe, there must certainly be a lot of them, highly visible and not very stealthy. Why would Tim Matthews (the artist formerly known as Hepple) be so secretive about his address, claiming he'd moved. We all know where he lives and even his "secret" telephone number. So to contact Tim, you have to go through the Lancaster PO Box, all this for a for a group in Southport. You can email or get him on his pager. Only a selected few have his number (so he thinks). Why should a front man for a group hide behind a PO Box and secret telephone numbers. What is he trying to hide? He says he might go to the Staffs UFO meetings. He's not welcome and he knows it. Maybe some of his old friends will turn up, to catch up on old times. As for the BNP connection mentioned in Darren's mail, readers should know that this is not referring to British Nuclear Power. So Tim will knock on the door at the Staffs group. Irene will answer, "Who's there?". Tim will reply "LUFOS." Irene then will ask, "Who is LUFOS". And Tim will reply, "I vill ask ze questions." If Andy Roberts can get away with this humour, then so can we. Tim says that the Lancashire UFO Investigation Group were behind the fake pictures left at a conference in Morecambe. My friend, Rod Howarth, said he would field this question, yet despite this, Tim has not contacted him. Tim says he was going to expose the people behind this "fake" and so I told him that before he makes a fool of himself, he should talk to Rod, who has some very interesting details on this case and knows who is behind the fakes. Its easy to fake pictures with software on the market. Yes, its true also that Tim is now asking conference organisers to book him, rather than them asking him. Not many who know him in the North of England will book him. I've told him that if his attitude towards others did not change, that he would be left out in the cold. It seems that this is starting to happen. Can all the ufologists who oppose his attitude - there are plenty of them - be wrong. Tim is advertising himself as BUFOSC's press officer. This is so he can control what Eric does. Eric has not realised this yet. What do we see in the first issue of a newsletter emailed to me, a profile of Eric, that's his contribution, groundbreaking ufology. Whilst Tim's research is good, he still jumps the gun. On October 18th 97, Eric Morris, my son and I witnessed and recorded on video two lights over Carleton Moor, near Skipton. Both Eric and Tim are claiming these are earthlights. They may well be but should we not check all avenues before claiming what it is. After all we have no more proof that they're earthlights, than military choppers or some other natural phenomenon. The video is being analysed and that is all. It will probably turn out to have some mundane explanation but it looks good. So at the end of the day, Tim can only blame himself for others not wanting to associate with him. People would have stuck by him in hard times. Yet he chooses to snub the people who may have supported him. How long can Tim keep a lid on his past. His past life as Tim Hepple is now finding its way into ufology. Yet Tim just keeps saying, its all in the past. If Tim had dealt with this issue when it first raised its ugly head, this would all be behind him. Now he has chosen to abuse other researchers, I'm sure they will not let him forget his past. You'd think that he'd realise that the groups would have plugged his book but now I'm sure many will not touch it with a barge pole. Where is he going to advertise his book now. With only a few mags left in the UK - who would have every right not to mention his book after his tearing up exercises - where will he turn for publicity? The groups he's upset will certainly not give him the time of day. Mind you there's the worldwide readership, obviously unaware of his less than tactful approach to ufology. Tim, especially in the Northwest of the UK is at the moment about as popular as a bull in a china shop. In Tim's latest offering he tells us, his focus is UFO research. No, Tim you should reword that, your aim is to attack all those whose opinion differs from yours. You had better make sure your research is accurate, as there are many people waiting for the chance to challenge it. Are the Staffordshire UFO Group, the North Lancashire UFO Investigation Group, Irene Bott, Nick Redfern, Omar Fowler, the Northern Anomolies Research Association, the Lancashire Aerial Phenonmenon Investigation Society, Tony Dodd and of course us, PHUFON, all wrong? You've managed to alienate (sorry for the pun) yourself from many groups local to yours. Lancashire is now a Tim free zone. May your children never walk backwards. Rory Lushman. Pendle, Hyndburn UFO Network.(UK)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 13 Alfred's Odd Ode #247 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 04:56:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 08:25:27 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #247 Apology to MW #247 (For May 13, 1998) 12 billion years ago, however it is measured, a galaxy exploded -- flared out like a match head! It's explosion was titanic, and we barely see a remnant of the violence expended before our sun was just an infant! . . . Ten million super novas, and pack them tightly in a can. Light them off, then, all at once (!), . . .we can't begin to understand! This was no mere explosion; it's not classed with detonation! This was a vast dissilience, disunion --disintegration! It was a stellar deconstruction, a cosmic cloud of desolation! Shredding space and time apart it burned an awful conflagration! It was a boom beyond mere strident sound, it transcended idle loudness. It redefined a devastation in a storm at its profoundest. It's a carnage; it's a shambles; it's a scene of revolution; it hurts to hold it in my head, this stellar ebullition!! More! Take the Drake equation using numbers too conservative, and you wonder for the folks therein, and how _they_ took the purgative. Did some hold on to fellows while the burst consumed their stars? Some would burrow in -- to ride it out if not too hard? Some would cut, and run away in ships of space they built . . . where are they now . . . twelve billion years (<_-*-_>) . . . what fates were then fulfilled? Did some of them, then, come _this_ way with the physics that they found? Are these the ones that vex us with their manner, most profound? Are these the ships that fill our skies in enigmatic ways! Are these the folk abandoned all their homes that awful day? Did they flee like clouds of locusts from a forest fire burn? Did they kill themselves escaping? What was new they had to learn? Did they suffer cataclysm with a stoic silent prayer? Did they fall on bloody swords? Did they give up to despair? Could a galaxy be empty -- devoid of any life? A deadness in eternity, nothing subject to its strife. Whatever is the answer, I still feel the need to mourn. It's death writ huge . . . mortality . . . it's God himself suborned. Lehmberg@snowhill.com Yeah -- I know it's likely a natural process, but that doesn't count for much when you're throwing canned food in the trunk of your car, and heading for the disintegrating hills. It's hard enough to run from a hurricane, or an asteroid, but how does one run from an overnight explosion of everything that was, is, and could be. Vernichtung, the death of all hope! Megadeath. Restore John Ford! -- Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 13 Re: State Of The List From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 10:46:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 10:46:17 -0400 Subject: Re: State Of The List >From: "Leanne Martin" <leanne_martin@hotmail.com> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: State Of The List >Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 22:51:40 PDT >Dear EBK and subscribers, >As a relative newcomer to the list I have enjoyed reading many of >the items that cross my path as a member. However, I must say >that I am heartily sick of the constant bickering (he said/she >said verbiage) that clutters my in-tray. Most of it from the >on-going British debacle. As you say, you're "a relative newcomer to the list". Your observation has come up a couple of times in the past..... UFO UpDates started life as a small BBS here in Toronto, trying to bring world-wide UFO news and information to its subscribers. In many ways moving the information was a frustrating experience. The old 'FIDO Computer Network' was _almost_ world-wide and painfully slow. Messages would move across the network, from BBS to BBS, taking as much as 48 hours to reach their destination. Most of the posters to the UFO 'Echoes' (as the channels on the networks were known back then) were, first and foremost, computer-enthusiasts - their UFO knowledge based mostly on books, a few UFO magazines, newsletters, trashy-tabloids and itinerant lecturers. It was difficult for me back then, to sort the valid from the invalid. With the growth of the Net, the advent of The Web and the seeming simplicity of computers, my Atari based UpDates BBS' days were clearly numbered. I bought my first PC and started surfing. The news.groups were a mix of the informed, theorists, skeptics, flamers, de-bunkers and the rationally-impaired. I spent hundreds of hours trying to sift for nuggets. Clearly there was the need of a List for those seriously-interested in UFOs and related phenomena. I kicked-the-tires (tyres, for English-writing subscribers) of several names for the new List, even considering calling it 'Educating Errol'. UpDates seemed elegantly simple. And that's what it became. There are those who feel that this List should only concern itself with UFOs. Period. That discussion of all facets of the phenomena not be 'allowed'. My intent was never to limit discussions here. Unfortunately, there have been occasions when I've had to step-in and outright ban a couple of people because of their style or nonsense-quotient. For the most part, the atmosphere here has been fairly liberal. There are subscribers to UpDates who 'cut their Internet-chops' here and started their own very specifically-oriented UFO Lists. They're doing wonderful work and are contributing hugely to UFO research. They still read the posts to this List. UpDates are read, literally, around the world by people who 'want to know'. I estimate that of the several hundred who subscribed to UpDates in its first year, a full 80% of them will read this post. They want to know, as I do, about fellow researchers, investigators, writers, etc. No matter where. Europe, Asia, Africa, The Americas. >Could those users who have an argument about what another user >may or may not have said about them PLEASE TAKE THEIR ARGUING >INTO THE PRIVATE DOMAIN!! The 'arguments', were they to be taken to private E-Mail, would reveal nothing to the rest of us. No hint of perhaps hidden agendas, no clue as to the mind set of various 'name' ufologists. No _real_, behind-the-scenes information which might help us come to conclusions about all of 'this' a tad quicker. >Sorry for yelling, it's just that I joined this list to partake >in serious discourse and not to waste my valuable time with this >sort of trash. The discourse here _is_ serious Leanne. It has caused many readers to review their opinions about people and incidents in ufology, pro and con. And that's one of the reasons for UpDates' existence. Informed 'discourse'. Sometimes tedious, sometimes exhilarating. Boring? Very seldom. And there's always the 'Delete-key' >I suggest that by allowing it to continue it may have contributed >to the the drop off in subscriptions as noted in your recent >'State OF The List' address. I'm certainly reconsidering mine... >>o Since its inception on March 1st 1996 has had almost 2,000 >> subscribers. >>o Currently the number lurks a tad under 1,OOO Actually, I didn't note a drop-off. I merely reported 'churn'. Turnover is inevitable. Many kids and adults looking to be entertained, 'gee-whizzed'. Many preferring to graze the UpDates Archive established by Glenn Campbell at Ufomind.com rather than have their mailboxes "flooded" with "stuff". Many discovering that most UFO Lists are forums for serious discussion, rather than simple news sources. As I wrote earlier, the majority of early subscribers to UpDates are still here. Albeit, lurking. >Notwithstanding the above, please keep up the good work. Thanks Leanne. I hope I've addressed your concerns and that you're not too un-happy with this response. >Regards, And to you too. >Ms Leanne Martin >Computer Engineer @ WANG GLOBAL Australia Errol Bruce-Knapp, Moderator/Operator UFO UpDates - Toronto
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 13 Re: Army Releases Previously Classified Documents From: "Stanton T. Friedman" <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:14:12 -0300 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 10:58:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Army Releases Previously Classified Documents > From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com> [Robert Gates] > Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 23:35:17 EDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Army Releases Previously Classified > Documents > > From: UFOLAWYER1 <UFOLAWYER1@aol.com> [Peter Gersten] > > Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 00:07:31 EDT > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Army Releases Previously Classified > > Documents > > >Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 20:23:54 -0300 > > >From: "Stanton T. Friedman" <fsphys@brunnet.net> > > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Army releases previously classified > > > 'Secret' documents to CAUS > > Stanton, > > Actually after reading only about 100 pages, I find them quite > > interesting. Strange that the Army would go to so much trouble > > (hundreds of pages of documents documenting many months of > > investigation utilyzing countless agents) at the end of 1947 to > > find the Horton brothers and question them about flying saucers, > > if they already knew (according to Corso) that they were > > extraterrestrial in origin. > > Peter > What you have to understand :) is that Majestic 12 was so highly > classified and compartmentalized that the flunky Army > investigators didn't have the necessary clearances to even catch > a breath of MJ-12 much less Roswell. > Robert The Counter Intelligence Corps had very legitimate concerns about the penetration of Restricted Air Space over highly classified facilities. Of course they would want to check out the German scientists who had been working on far out technology and might have been grabbed by the Soviets etc. Note that none of this army stuff was classified above SECRET. This is entirely separate from crashed saucers. STF
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 13 Re: State Of The List From: Donnie Shevlin <donnies@codamc.com> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 08:49:15 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 11:04:18 -0400 Subject: Re: State Of The List > From: "Leanne Martin" <leanne_martin@hotmail.com> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: State Of The List > Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 22:51:40 PDT > Dear EBK and subscribers, <snip> > I suggest that by allowing it to continue it may have contributed > to the the drop off in subscriptions as noted in your recent > 'State OF The List' address. I'm certainly reconsidering mine... > Notwithstanding the above, please keep up the good work. > Regards, > Ms Leanne Martin > Computer Engineer @ WANG GLOBAL Australia Hear... Hear... I have been lurking on the list for over two years. I've read everything and commented little. I always felt that I am not in any real position (just a software engineer) to take a stance against those in the field. I do have experience dealing with professionals in my job and some of the fighting taking place on this list would call for a dismissal in a business environment. An open communication forum serves for information and debate, not slamming, flaming or name calling. Present the facts in a semi-professional way and don't follow the comments up with a 'I told you so.' attitude. Although, what I see, seems very clear. There is a struggle for fame. Everyone is shooting for the big interview/deal that will make them the one that broke story, solved the puzzle, wrote the book. People are pounding on Richard Hoagland and for what? (rhetorical) To say, 'See..See..Your theories are wrong.' or 'I told you he was full of bull.', this is not justifiable. I grow weary of it all. I have started to weed the flames, toss mail into trash when I spot certain names. I feel that some of those that comment harshly may really have something to contribute but their focus is lost. It is a shame. Well, I have bent everyone's ear quite enough. My soapbox is about to collapse. If anyone would care to know my views on this grand universe I would enjoy putting them out here, but on one condition. What I say is my believe entirely. I don't want an interview, a book, a documentary or an exclusive in a magazine. I will just air an opinion and hope that objective dialog follows. Donald W. Shevlin (JoeDoe)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 13 Re: State Of The List From: "Beverly Trout" <btufo@netins.net> Date: Wed, 13 May 98 08:49:10 PDT Fwd Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 11:01:46 -0400 Subject: Re: State Of The List > From: "Leanne Martin" <leanne_martin@hotmail.com> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: State Of The List > Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 22:51:40 PDT > Dear EBK and subscribers, > As a relative newcomer to the list I have enjoyed reading many of > the items that cross my path as a member. However, I must say > that I am heartily sick of the constant bickering (he said/she > said verbiage) that clutters my in-tray. Most of it from the > on-going British debacle. > Could those users who have an argument about what another user > may or may not have said about them PLEASE TAKE THEIR ARGUING > INTO THE PRIVATE DOMAIN!! <snip> We all hope for responsible UFO research, and less argument. But when there's a "bad apple in the barrel", I for one appreciate hearing from the various "sides" in the British brouhaha..... to clarify what's going on..... Then we can move on...... As a recent subscriber, I am highly appreciative of UFO UpDates..... keep up the good work. Bev Trout...Iowa MUFON State Director
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 13 Re: State Of The List From: Marie Ivey <jmi@aretha.jax.org> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 10:20:51 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 11:07:37 -0400 Subject: Re: State Of The List >From: "Leanne Martin" <leanne_martin@hotmail.com> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: State Of The List >Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 22:51:40 PDT >Dear EBK and subscribers, >As a relative newcomer to the list I have enjoyed reading many of >the items that cross my path as a member. However, I must say >that I am heartily sick of the constant bickering (he said/she >said verbiage) that clutters my in-tray. I feel the same way. However, the source of these ongoing battles is easily identified. I just ignore them and select what is of interest to me. Some contributors to this list are almost always nasty and negative but the wealth of information from others is worth hanging in there. Best regards, Marie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 13 Re: 'Alien Interview' Available as..... From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 10:06:03 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 11:06:33 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Alien Interview' Available as..... >Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 21:58:29 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Alien Interview' Available as..... >>I think it probably is a puppet. >>Others have said that "Victor" is Bob Lazar based on more >>sophisticated voice analysis. >>If so, this pretty much blows any credibility that Lazar >>may have had with anyone. >Not haveing seen the video in discussion, I can't comment about >it. However, I see that you are not anxious to withhold >judgement on the continuing trashing of Bob Lazar. >Bob, I would think you would have learned a lesson about >credibility, after they way you were treated in Greensboro, North >Carolina at the 1996 MUFON Convention. >I felt for you at that time...were my "feelings" misplaced? >REgards, Mike Mike, Note what I said. That if Victor is Bob Lazar it will blow any credibility that Lazar may have had with anyone. I did not say that it was a fact. I don't know. I know others have claimed to have proved that Victor is Lazar. I think the video is a poorly crafted, cheaply executed hoax. If so, and Lazar is involved, it doesn't say anything good about him. If it is real and Lazar is involved, it would mean he is not what he has claimed to be, since this video was obtained long after Lazar was outed. If Victor is not Lazar, then it all means nothing. I'm not sure what my experience in Greensboro has to do with Lazar's credibility. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 13 Re: State Of The List From: Sheree Cox <cox@mcmail.CIS.McMaster.CA> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 12:12:08 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 12:23:31 -0400 Subject: Re: State Of The List > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > From: "Beverly Trout" <btufo@netins.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: State Of The List > Date: Wed, 13 May 98 08:49:10 PDT > > From: "Leanne Martin" <leanne_martin@hotmail.com> > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: State Of The List > > Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 22:51:40 PDT > > Dear EBK and subscribers, > > As a relative newcomer to the list I have enjoyed reading many of > > the items that cross my path as a member. However, I must say > > that I am heartily sick of the constant bickering (he said/she > > said verbiage) that clutters my in-tray. Most of it from the > > on-going British debacle. > > Could those users who have an argument about what another user > > may or may not have said about them PLEASE TAKE THEIR ARGUING > > INTO THE PRIVATE DOMAIN!! > <snip> > We all hope for responsible UFO research, and less argument. But > when there's a "bad apple in the barrel", I for one appreciate > hearing from the various "sides" in the British brouhaha..... to > clarify what's going on..... Then we can move on...... As a > recent subscriber, I am highly appreciative of UFO UpDates..... > keep up the good work. > Bev Trout...Iowa MUFON State Director I'm also a newcomer to the list and I agree with Ms. Trout. It's not only interesting, but it's good to hear from all sides, and I do feel its important that we be as informed as possible about what's going on - good or bad.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 13 UpDates Moving & Off-Line Until 05-17-98 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 12:32:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 12:32:17 -0400 Subject: UpDates Moving & Off-Line Until 05-17-98 My apologies to the List and to Readers at the Archive. A combined move of home and having to go out of town necessitates being off-line until Sunday. Please, hold your messages until Saturday at around 18:00 GMT. It'll make the task of catching up a little less daunting.<G> Thanks for you co-operation,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Re: From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 14:24:22 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 08:00:21 -0400 Subject: Re: to: > from: "sally mandella" <s_mandella@hotmail.com> > >From: "Tim Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> > >> From: Darren Danks <darren@darrend.demon.co.uk> > Funny thing, you all call yourselves "researchers" and > "ufologists". > On what basis? > (The postman Santa) responded, after a few moments: > "Well... It's a living!". > What's troubling me, is that none of you "researchers" and > "ufologists" appear to be drawing a salary! > So what are you doing it for? > I really want to know. > - Sequan Sally, Tim, Darren, Sequan et al There is nothing wrong calling someone who puts countless hours in the library, a researcher .. regardless of his or her topic, be it UFOs or bird-watching. There is no need for the quotation marks. When someone calls himself the "son of Ashtar" or whatever, out come the quotation marks. I would call a researcher of UFOs a Ufologist for short, again no quotation marks needed. Since there are no accredited college program in Ufology, we cannot point to scholarly degrees as benchmarks. Nevertheless, the list of people studying UFOs who have high degrees in other fields is quite impressive and lengthy. The few people who make a living at UFOs and the paranormal in general are regarded with suspicion to say the least. The suspicion is well deserved in many cases. This does not, or course, include those who are merely covering costs with subscriptions, book fees for a well researched book and so on. But yes, most everyone loses money on this study. So what are we doing this for? To find something out. To learn something we consider important. - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Re: Ray Santilli V Bob Kiviat From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 16:05:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 08:00:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Ray Santilli V Bob Kiviat >From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 00:41:40 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Ray Santilli V Bob Kiviat [...] >Remember it has been Ray Santilli that has failed to provide >proof of his claims. Ray who claimed that we was going to make a >few frames of the film available to be sent to Kodak. Ray who >has spun web after web until finally when you pressure Ray, he >defaults to "Well Volker owns...blah blah. Then you call Volker >and get no response. Its called the Ray Volker vicious circle of >story telling. [...] Robert, Ray might well be in a catch 22 situation: 1. I doubt one can copyright stolen classified material. And the AA film, if authentic, would be just that. 2. If the AA film is a copy of original footage (should the original footage be stolen goods or not), I doubt you can get a copyright on it either. Copyright implies: ownership and intellectual property. You cannot copyright copies of someone else's work. 3. For Santilli to own a copyright on the AA film necessarily implies that it is a work of creation from his part, on which he can claim ownership. 4. WHERE and HOW he got the copyright seem to be good questions. 5. The next thing would to get a copy of the original legal document which should hopefully be of public domain. Anyone on the list could confirm these assertions or tell me how naive I can be? Serge Salvaille
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Back On-Line From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 07:55:10 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 07:55:10 -0400 Subject: Back On-Line Move and Job completed - back on 12 hours earlier than anticipated. For new Subscribers, there will seem to be a somewhat large amount of mail for the next couple of days while we all catch up. ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 BUFORA WATCH 5 From: ej77@dial.pipex.com (Mike Wootten) Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 22:25:48 GMT Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 08:00:26 -0400 Subject: BUFORA WATCH 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- BUFORA WATCH 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- BURNS NIGHT After instigating a heated debate, BUFORA WATCH can claim a victory over the Max Burns lecture debacle. At the eleventh hour chairman Steve Gamble cancelled Max's appearance. We can also claim responsibility for saving whatever reputation BUFORA has left as Max could not use his appearance on a BUFORA platform to boost his credibility with the News of the World - who were planning to run his story and pay him 1500 ukp. The News of the World decided not to publish the story. If they had done, Max would certainly have stated that 'BUFORA backs him and his claims'. Our reporter on the scene takes up the story... Max's confidence that the News of the World 'exclusive' on the Sheffield Crash would make him a national hero of some sort faded into nothing. Our contacts in the Intelligence Services ensured that Max was pipped at the post by tales of jiggery pokery in Justin Fashanu's underpants. I've tried to get hold of the Burns creature for his comments after the non publication, but he seems mysteriously to be 'out' (no doubt to a long lunch). It's not over, however, until the fat ufologist sings and contingency plans are in effect to deal with any other nonsense he exudes. Contrary to John Spencer's vapid niceness *this* is how we should treat people like Burns who, fully aware of what the facts are, seize the opportunity for power and money by distorting them and thus bringing ufology into disrepute. ---------------------------------------------------------- BEHIND THE MAX Readers keeping up with the Max Fax will recall that although he did not manage to dupe the News of the World into publishing his fantasies he still believes he has 'conclusive evidence'. Let's just reiterate what that means to Max, what BUFORA nearly gave him a platform to spout unchallenged: 1) Burns has been in touch with a witness who,on the night of the fateful incident, was returning over the Snake Pass. By the Ladybower Viaduct his van was flagged down by a man. 2) Burns contests that this man was pilot or co-pilot from the Tornado he believes came into contact with an ET triangle. 3) *This*, and only this, is the 'conclusive' evidence Burns believed backed up his claims of ETs and government chicanery. David Clarke has, today, uncovered the truth behind these claims. The real facts are as follows: 1) The witness and his friends were flagged down, by a man described as 'asian' or afro-caribean' - This is where Max gets his 'NATO Pilot' fantasy from. 2) The man was dressed in dark clothing and smelt strongly of what *could* have been aviation fuel - David has now spoken to the witness who is now in the RAF and fully aware of what a Tornado pilot, or indeed any aircrew would have been wearing. The man's apparel was *not* that worn by aircrew. The smell could have been from *any* fuel. 3) When Burns contacted and interviewed the man - Johnathon Degenhart - he did so only by 'phone. Prior to that he had sent him a letter in which he claimed he was a 'journalist' working for a 'national organisation'. Burns is neither a journalist nor does he belong to a national UFO organisation. 4) Burns was evasive about exactly what he believed and what he had *already* published about this case. He said he would forward a copy of his case file to the man. The former is disingenuous, the latter has not yet taken place. 5) When appraised of the full situation by David and of the claims which Max is trying to get in the News of the World, Degenhart was horrified. He realises now that should his name appear in a national newspaper in connection with the lunatic theories espoused by Burns he runs (according to him) serious risk of loosing his job in the RAF. He had *no* idea of the slant which Burns would put on his incident which is only puzzling when twisted by Burns' and his fractured reasoning. We will probably *never* know who the man was but as no jet crashed it would be far more reasonable to assume that a man smelling of fuel on a lonely road at night was the victim of car trouble rather than triangular ET craft. As we peel yet another layer away from Max Burns' interpretation of this case we can see that not only are his theories fatally flawed but that he is prepared to mislead witnesses in his quest for publicity. BUFORA was very nearly part of that confidence trick, saved only by the actions and statements of researchers unafraid to speak out for the truth and for sanity in the subject. As BUFORA crumbles through apathy and ignorance front line ufology goes on. This case is merely instructive - demonstrating when competent investigation pierces the fantasy world of the ET believer a festival of mundanities warped by belief is revealed. Twas ever thus. ---------------------------------------------------------- JOHN HEPTONSTALL RESIGNS FROM BUFORA Deputy Director of Investigations, John Heptonstall has resigned from BUFORA. His reasons are highlighted in an email he sent to BUFORA WATCH... Regards to you and all, keep up the BUFORA watch, I'll remain interested but have lost interest in the self-serving actions of a few 'Council'lors. Properly convened elections, with ALL members advised and given opportunity and time to nominate/ proxy vote etc. could only win my support. The Council are risking legal action by not providing membership rights- UT 6 times a year for starters - yet retaining subscriptions and spending them on God knows what down there. Delusion has set in amongst the 'few' and I hope they get their just deserts, for me they are the epitomy of why UFOlogy remains in a mess and people delude themselves 'the truth is still out there' when a modicum of sense, reason and integrity could move us ahead 40 years. ---------------------------------------------------------- BUFORA ON-LINE (THE BUFORA WEB ShITE) BUFORA web surfers may have noticed that BUFORA On-Line is back on line again (www.bufora.org.uk). Since the launch of BUFORA On-Line in 1995, the service provider, Epinet offered the Association a free virtual server (a deal arranged by Mike Wootten) but due to its popularity (nearly 1000 hits a week) and the number of 5 star reviews the site received from the Internet press, Epinet stated that they wanted to charge BUFORA for the service it offered - 'BOL was taking up too much bandwidth so we have to charge'. As BUFORA could not pay (which has to be said were very high charges) BOL went off the air. But now BUFORA has a new service provider - Oaktree Internet Solutions, a small company who offer a very good deal indeed. For 99ukp per year they offer a 100Mb virtual server - not bad at all. It was nice to see for once Council doing something - but as always, it seems to be a worthless act. Since the transfer of the site last month it appears that the members only area is not working, the real-time database is not working or indeed the hit counter is not working. It pains BUFORA WATCH that Council spend out on a site and do nothing with it. Want to go to Congress 97? Well there's the button still on the front page for all to see. Fancy going to a BUFORA lecture? Well it will have to be last years lectures. Considering the fact that BUFORA cannot afford to produce a magazine or indeed send a letter out to its rapidly declining membership it would have been a good idea to use the web site instead to publish material and tell the members what's going on. But no that would be too much like hard work. Seeing the state of the site, Mike Wootten offered to rebuild the site, get the techy stuff working again and remove all the old material. After a week he has received a zero response. No surprise there! ---------------------------------------------------------- BUFORA WATCH READERS VIEWS We thought that as John Spencer thinks that BUFORA WATCH is just made up of a couple of 'bitter and twisted' individuals, we thought you might like to see what some members think... ...here's a sample. Thanks for taking the time to do this. It is very informative and is surprising what goes on behind almost closed doors. Do you think that the Council have lost the plot ? It sounds like it to me. I agree absolutely with what was said regarding the 'Max' incident. As you know I run my own website and state that I will not publish anything that does not have a substantial amount of evidence to back it up. This is not censorship this is logic, it creates credibility. I have had alot of email from people saying how much they appreciate the fact that I do not publish a load of hearsay. It can all be backed up. The areas I am interested in do not make headway when everyone is yaking on about details that have no credibility. Who needs coverups and black governments when you have got 95% of the people interested in 'alternative' theories arguing about information that has no substance. Ufology, and BUFORA specifically will never progress the subject further into the mainstream if they present ANYTHING, lectures, press releases, publications that the mainstream can get hold of and without much thought rip to shreads. They will make the whole membership look stupid and lunatic fringe. I for one am fed up to the back teeth with all these pathetic squablings. BUFORA council need to go back to the values they had when the organisation was at its height and well respected. If this continues, well quite frankly I think we should all pack up and start up NBUFORA (N being New) or alternatively join the lunatics at MUFON! :-) Rob Speight ------- I was a BUFORA member but failed to renew my membership for several reasons: Infighting Relevance for non-Londoners What was the point any way? Guess this is symptomatic of pretty much all UFO groups. E Round ------- I am a member of Bufora and I am very grateful for any information at all, since the last letter I had from the org must be over 6 months ago now! I get no news letters or letters for that matter. Maybe my subscription has run out, but I have not been told. On hearing what is going on behind members' backs, Members whose money is presumably being spent by these "esteemed" council members, I may not bother renewing anyway. Many thanks again for your invaluable service. Toby Richards. ------- Having shouted and hollored for an inexorable time for open elections to take place, only to be told we, the membership, were not entitled to elections.. i for one would welcome a parallel organisation... go for it... Vince... KEEP YOUR Es COMING IN ---------------------------------------------------------- A CHALLENGE FOR COUNCIL Now that the BUFORA Council can see the depth of their problems - thanks to BUFORA WATCH we would like to offer them the opportunity to use this forum and present their plan of action to getting BUFORA back on its feet. We are sure members on this list would like to know. Over to you guys... ---------------------------------------------------------- TELL'EM WHAT YOU THINK The next BUFORA Council meeting will be held on Saturday 30th May. We suggest you contact Steve Gamble - el82@dial.pipex.com of John Spencer - ek57@dial.pipex.com and tell them what you think. ATB Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Hubble Provides Multiple Views of How to Feed a From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 13:19:25 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 08:23:10 -0400 Subject: Hubble Provides Multiple Views of How to Feed a Douglas Isbell Headquarters, Washington, DC May 14, 1998 (Phone: 202/358-1753) Ray Villard Space Telescope Science Institute, Baltimore, MD (Phone: 410/338-4514) RELEASE: 98-71 HUBBLE PROVIDES MULTIPLE VIEWS OF HOW TO FEED A BLACK HOLE Astronomers have obtained an unprecedented look at the nearest example of galactic cannibalism -- a massive black hole hidden at the center of a nearby giant galaxy that is feeding on a smaller galaxy in a spectacular collision. Such fireworks were common in the early universe, as galaxies formed and evolved, but are rare today. Although the cause-and-effect relationships are not yet clear, the views provided by complementary images from two instruments aboard NASA's Hubble Space Telescope are giving astronomers new insights into the powerful forces being exerted in this complex maelstrom. Researchers believe these forces may even have shifted the axis of the massive black hole from its expected orientation. The Hubble wide-field camera visible image of the merged Centaurus A galaxy, also called NGC 5128, shows in sharp clarity a dramatic dark lane of dust girdling the galaxy. Blue clusters of newborn stars are clearly resolved, and silhouettes of dust filaments are interspersed with blazing orange-glowing gas. Located only 10 million light-years away, this peculiar-looking galaxy contains the closest active galactic nucleus to Earth and has long been considered an example of an elliptical galaxy disrupted by a recent collision with a smaller companion spiral galaxy. Using the infrared vision of Hubble, astronomers have penetrated this wall of dust for the first time to see a twisted disk of hot gas swept up in the black hole's gravitational whirlpool. The suspected black hole is so dense it contains the mass of perhaps a billion stars, compacted into a small region of space not much larger than our Solar System. Resolving features as small as seven light-years across, Hubble has shown astronomers that the hot gas disk is tilted in a different direction from the black hole's axis -- like a wobbly wheel around an axle. The black hole's axis is identified by the orientation of a high-speed jet of material, glowing in X-rays and radio frequencies, blasted from the black hole at 1/100th the speed of light. This gas disk presumably fueling the black hole may have formed so recently it is not yet aligned to the black hole's spin axis, or it may simply be influenced more by the galaxy's gravitational tug than by the black hole's. "This black hole is doing its own thing. Aside from receiving fresh fuel from a devoured galaxy, it may be oblivious to the rest of the galaxy and the collision," said Ethan Schreier of the Space Telescope Science Institute, Baltimore, MD. Schreier and an international team of co-investigators used Hubble's Near Infrared Camera and Multi-Object Spectrometer to probe deeper into the galaxy's mysterious heart than anyone has before. The hot gas disk viewed by Hubble investigators is perpendicular to the galaxy's outer dust belt, while the black hole's own internal accretion disk of superhot gas falling into it is tilted approximately diagonally to these axes. "We have found a complicated situation of a disk within a disk within a disk, all pointing in different directions," Schreier said. It is not clear if the black hole was always present in the host galaxy or belonged to the spiral galaxy that fell into the core, or if it is the product of the merger of a pair of smaller black holes that lived in the two once-separate galaxies. Having an active galaxy just 10 million light-years away from Earth rather than hundreds of millions or billions of light-years distant offers astronomers a unique laboratory for understanding the elusive details of the behavior of supermassive black holes as fueled by galaxy collisions. "Though Hubble has seen hot gas disks around black holes in other galaxies, the infrared camera has for the first time allowed us to peer at this relatively nearby, very active, but obscured black hole region," Schreier added. The team of astronomers is awaiting further Hubble data to continue its study of the disk, as well as ground-based spectroscopic observations to measure the velocity of entrapped material around the black hole. This will allow the astronomers to better calculate the black hole's mass. The current results are scheduled to appear in the June 1, 1998 issue of Astrophysical Journal Letters. - end - EDITORS NOTE: Images and further information related to these results are available on the Internet at the following URLs: http://oposite.stsci.edu/1998/14 http://oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/latest.html or http://oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/pictures.html Images to accompany this release are available to news media representatives by calling the Headquarters Imaging Branch on 202/358-1900. NASA photo numbers are: Color B&W 98-HC-176 98-H-176 98-HC-177 98-H-177
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Re: State Of The List From: " Dr.Diane Landry (Doc)" <landryp1@rogers.wave.ca> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 13:16:37 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 08:32:42 -0400 Subject: Re: State Of The List Hello Errol and list I have been lurking with this list for two years now. During this time I have found this list intersting and informative. To hear both sides to an argument allows us the opportunity to read between the lines and get a better understanding of what is being said about the discussion. You have done a great job Errol and thank you for giving so much of your time. Doc (Diane) -- Doc Landry Email: drlandry@rogers.wave.ca : canadian_xfiles@hotmail.com : truthdirectory@angelfire.com http://www.angelfire.com/sc/TruthDirectory/index.html. " the truth is out there" ICQ # 9406458
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Re: NASA Extinguishes Hoagland's 'Smoking Gun'? From: "Rick Savard" <tcdone@inland.net> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 17:35:52 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 08:00:30 -0400 Subject: Re: NASA Extinguishes Hoagland's 'Smoking Gun'? > From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 07:26:16 +0200 > Subject: Fwd: NASA extinguishes Hoagland's "smoking gun"! > Received via alt.alien.visitors May 13 at 06.41 local time (GMT + > 1 hour). > Stig > ******* > Date: 12 May 1998 23:52:15 GMT > From: "Curt van den Heuvel" <heuvelc@primenet.com> > Subject: NASA extinguishes Hoagland's "smoking gun"! > Message-ID: <6janbf$14f@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> > The JPL website has two press releases at > http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/target/index.html > that were posted yesterday. One of them points out that the Mars > Global Surveyor image histogram that first got Richard Hoagland > in a flap is actually pretty much the same as (if not better > than) the Viking images. > The other press release explains why the raw data is only 1024 > pixels wide. Short answer - the memory buffer on the Mars Orbiter > Camera is limited. The Mars Global Surveyor team chose a narrower > resolution of 1024 pixels so that could get a longer strip of > data (nearly 44 Km downtrack field), and so increase the chances > of imaging the "face". > -Curt These same explanations were posted on the Malin Space Science (MSSS) site over a month ago. They make no more sense today than they did then. http://www.msss.com/mars/global_surveyor/camera/images/index.html Essentially he is saying that two factors contributed to the low number of grey levels. 1) The low contrast of the planet surface itself. 2) The controls on the camera were set lower than they should have been as a precautionary measure. The precautionary measure was, and I QUOTE: "in case something unforeseen was in the picture." He also addresses why the images are only 1024 pixels wide. Another specific allegation made by Dick Hoagland. To sum up, he states that a decision was made to obtain a 1024 x 9600 image rather than 2048 x 4800 because: 1) To be sure to get an image of the Face within the 'downtrack' 2) To be sure to avoid any 'black bands' caused by communications glitches during the transmission because "The MGS Project felt such losses would not be tolerable in the Cydonia images." I see a few problems with these explanations. Reason #1 doesn't make sense since it indicates that they were more sure of the pointing of the camera than they were of the downtrack (when the camera would start and when it would stop). So they compensated for this apparent uncertainty by extending the downtrack. Calculating the is a much simpler task than calculating the camera pointing angle. Therefore, one would want to extend the lateral coverage rather than extend the 'downtrack'. Reason #2 doesn't make sense since losses in the 'communication system' could be overcome by simply re-transmitting the data until you received ALL of the data and eliminated the black bands. I do not post this to defend Mr. Hoagland. He can stand on his own two feet. I post this for two reasons; 1) It seems that many on this list crave information that will debunk the artificiality claims for the Cydonia region. The NASA/Malin explanations and statements are not thoroughly examined before reaching conclusions. It seems that only the headlines or web page title are sufficient to debunk in many minds here. 2) Many of you are not keeping close enough tabs on the information coming out on the MGS images. This release is over one month old! Much has happened since then and there are numerous web sites illustrating some very interesting discoveries. For example: http://www.mufor.org/ares Click on MGS Image Gallery More to come........... -- STAY CONNECTED, Rick Savard Mars Surface Anomaly Anaysis Group (MSAAg) NPAA Group http://www.mufor.org/ares/ tcdone@inland.net ----------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Re: UFO Security Classification Hearings From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:18:13 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 08:28:49 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Security Classification Hearings > From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 05:40:43 +0200 > Subject: C-SPAN On UFO Security Classification Hearings <snip> > On Mon. 5-11-98, C-SPAN provided live coverage of the House > Oversight Subcommittee hearings on Human Rights Documents for > Guatemala and Honduras. > Rep. Steve Horn (Republican from CA) questioned Lee Strickland > from CIA and Steve Garfinkle from the Information Security > Oversight Office about classification levels other than the usual > Top Secret, Secret, and Confidential categories. [Anyone that > has looked into this area would soon learn that there are many > levels that are higher than the Top Secret category.] <snip> > Rep. Horn then asked about the classification of "UFO > information". Mr. Strickland and Mr. Garfinkle both said that > information relating to UFOs is classified according to the > regular system of Top Secret, Secret, and Confidential. If we are > to believe the testimony of these two, there are only a handful > of classification levels. > A good follow up question that Rep. Horn should have asked is the > following: What about SCI, CRYPTO, ULTRA, VRK, UMBRA, Q38, etc. > etc.? I have a sneaky suspicion that the Rep. from CA was being > duped. One way Rep. Horn may have been duped was by terminology usage. As we see from another posting (below) UFOs are not really called "UFOs" by other agencies such as NORAD, who have concocted alternate acronyms for them. Thus intelligence personnel could "truthfully" say that "UFO" info is classified no higher than SECRET, since higher classifications really apply to the alternate acroynms. Perhaps a better way to approach this would have been for Rep. Horn to first request a list of ALL current equivalent military acronyms for UFOs, and then ask about the classification levels of each of those. The alternate military acronyms for "UFO" are mentioned in the following post from Stig. Perhaps someone should pass this info on to Rep. Horn ... > From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 04:06:06 +0200 > Subject: UFOs And The Governments Of The USA And UK > Some unknown and interesting pieces of information from 'Lobster' > # 32 December 1996. URL: > http://www.knowledge.co.uk/xxx/lobster/articles/l32ufos.htm > UFOs and the governments of the USA and UK > by Armen Victorian >From Lobster 32 <snip> > All the official records made public under the UFO title are > unevaluated reports gathered through various human intelligence means. > These reports always quote the term UFO, as it has been relayed to them > by sources. Mostly these sources are civilians, unaware of the current > official terminology used by the US government. The US military uses > two main terms in compiling and studying the UFO subject: Uncorrelated > Targets (UCT), for earth-bound unidentified objects, and Uncorrelated > Event Reports (UER) for space related events. I wrote to North American > Aerospace Defense Command, NORAD, about their terminology. They > replied: > 'Historically, the term UFO was used by the Air Force starting in 1947 > and ending in 1974 with the shelving of the "Blue Book" project. We all > know what the term UFO means, we just don't use it.....The specific > term "UFO" is not used by this command even though you could say that > this term would equate to UTR [unknown track report], either an > uncorrelated event or an unknown track, since an unidentified flying > object could be considered either.'(3) > Further, I was told, 'Uncorrelated Events Reports (UERs), which are > space related events on the United States Space Command (USSPACECOM) > side of the house, are always classified SECRET.' (4) > Uncorrelated Targets are categorised as: > Significant UCTs, Nonsignificant UCTs, Critical UCTs, and > False UCTs. (5) <rest snipped> -Brian Cuthbertson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 22:29:31 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 08:17:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? >From: "sally mandella" <s_mandella@hotmail.com> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? >Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 20:58:48 PDT >Funny thing, you all call yourselves "researchers" and >"ufologists". >On what basis? I'll give you my reasons at the end of the story. I can't stand to cut it... >First, a little story: >There was a man who worked at the Post Office, whose job it was >to search for any envelopes addressed to Santa. He was called a >"Santologist", and when he first started his job, he was asked by >a local newspaper reporter "Do you believe in Santa Claus?" and >he'd answer - "nah...". But, each year, he would be asked to >tell his favorite story about his favorite letter to Santa at the >Post Office Christmas Party. And year after year, children would >come to the Post Office on Christmas, and he'd dress up as Santa >and they'd bring letters to him and he'd read them, as part of >his public duty. By the time he was nearing retirement, after 45 >years, he was so famous at his post office and in his home town, >that all the townspeople threw him a huge bash, presented him >with dozens of gifts, many of them from grown up "children" who'd >sat on his knee during his career, and, it being christmas, the >local postmaster dressed up as Santa and delivered him the gifts >on a Sled. It was a smashing success. When the man was asked by >a local reporter, "So, do you now believe in Santa Claus?" he >answered: "nah...". >The reporter, crestfallen, said "But, after all these years, and >the thousands of children, and searching out all those letters, >and now this, why did you do it?" >To which the man responded, after a few moments: >"Well... It's a living!". >________________________________________________ >What's troubling me, is that none of you "researchers" and >"ufologists" appear to be drawing a salary! >So what are you doing it for? >I really want to know. >Sequan Ok, To tell you the truth, I consider myself a UFO Investigator and Reseacher, because since 1967, I have personally put my feet on the highway, walking into fields, to check out crop circles, mutilated cattle, and reports of sightings from people from Toronto, Canada in the North, to Tampa, Florida in the South. From Sacramento, California to Long Island, New York. I have spent over $3000 a year on phone research since 1987. How many new cars could I have bought with $30,000??? I have talked to the man in the street and the Authors who write books on UFOs. I have shared hours of conversation with such Personalities as: The late Len Stringfield, Cincinnatti, Ohio; Dr. J.Allen Hynek, who contributed much to UFOlogy in his las years, after causing such a stirr in the early days as advisor to the Air Force, with his famous "swamp gas, " analysis. <G> The late Marcell Vogle, the creator of the Floppy Disk as well as having done research into plants reaction to pain experienced by other life forms....He also did the metal analysis in the Billy Meier Case. That is enough name droping. I have traveled over a million miles in my automobiles since 1980, in persuit of answers to the UFO phnenomena...I have been to Albequreque, New Mexico; Rachel, Nevada; Gulf Breeze, Florida; Fyffe, Alabama; Manhatten, Kansas, to talk with Dr. William Fately, who worked on Project Blue Book back in the 1950's and was teaching at Kansas State University at the time... I ran a full time, 24 hour BBS (Bulletin Board System) for MUFON and also carried the FIDO Backbone on it as well. I have over three thousand files dealing with UFOs and Paranormal Material. While I have written several short papers on UFOs and their relation to Mankind, etc., I have not, nor do I want to write a book. It is not important for me to do so. There are enough books out there now, saying the same thing over and over and over again. If I ever write a book, it will be from an origional point of view....It will be from personal experience. And, at this point in time, I have no personal experiences to write about. I don't know if this is the answer you were looking for or not. I don't make a cent from my research. I have always shared it with those whom I know and respect. I lecture from time to time, locally, and I don't charge anything for it. Yet, on several occassions they have given me an honourarium, mainly to cover my travel expenses. Those who know me personally, can tell you anything else they choose. Those who only know me from my posts may not know enough about me to help you. REgardless, this is just a few of the continuing reasons I consider myself a UFO researcher/investigator. REgards, Mike The fastest way to respond to this message is through the ICQ Network. A message sent this way will go directly to my screen. If you have ICQ you can message me at ICQ#:7508455. If you don't have ICQ you can page me through: My Personal Communication Center: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/7508455 (go there and try it!) Or you can send me a regular e-mail to my EmailExpress address: 7508455@pager.mirabilis.com. Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/ Include your ICQ details in YOUR e-mail signature: http://www.icq.com/emailsig.html. My BBS Telephone Number is: (502) 683-3026 My Fax Number is: (502) 686-7394 My Home Telephone Number is: (502) 683-6811 Michael Christol ----------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Re: UFOs And The Governments Of The USA And UK From: "Leanne Martin" <leanne_martin@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 18:49:40 PDT Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 08:52:12 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs And The Governments Of The USA And UK >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 04:06:06 +0200 >Subject: UFOs And The Governments Of The USA And UK >Some unknown and interesting pieces of information from 'Lobster' ># 32 December 1996. URL: >http://www.knowledge.co.uk/xxx/lobster/articles/l32ufos.htm >Stig <snip> Ladies & Gentlefolk, This is the sort of email that makes it worthwhile to be subscriber! Question: If, as according to some theorists, the US Government is knowledgable of who does fly these things ( at least one president is supposed to have conversed with them shortly after WWII), therefore, would it not follow that they also know where they're from? Conclusion: If yes to the above question then the wrong research goal may be being sought in these FOIA searches >>> If they are technically no longer 'unknowns' then they must be 'knowns' - and we know how government agencies like hiding behind technicalities. It is possible that should this be the case, then, that they and their traffic records are hidden in 'known friendly alien' (as in foreign) incursion reports - or whatever terms may apply. Regards Leanne Martin Computer Engineer @ WANG GLOBAL Australia
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 01:12:23 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 08:47:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? > Date: 13 May 1998 13:21 > Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 05:09:25 -0400 > From: JOHN LUSHMAN <PHUFON@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >From : Rory Lushman <PHUFON@Compuserve.com> > >To : UFO UpDates < Udates@globalserve.net > > >Subject : Tim Matthews - Ruining ufology > >Date: Wednesday, 13th May 1998, 09.48 <snip> I am surprised that this message was actually posted. It is just one long ill-informed rant and I think it is ironic that whilst the message was being concocted I was travelling back from giving a two and a half hour talk to a small UFO group in Lincoln. I charged no fee, as usual, and had only three hours sleep before going out to work. That is what it is all about. Not to mention the several hundred free copies of my latest report that have been sent to all who requested it........ Rory's last 'meeting' was attended by 5 people. Mine was attended by fifty and three new members joined. Jealousy? I think so. Rory's posting is a particularly good example of just how wrong one can be. Tim ----------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Re: Pics of Meier's 'Asket' on Dean Martin Show From: Joachim Koch <JKoch1@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:51:08 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 08:43:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Pics of Meier's 'Asket' on Dean Martin Show Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 06:40:42 -0400 To: updates@globalserve.net From:Joachim Koch<jkoch1@compuserve.com> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Pics of Meier's 'Asket' on Dean Martin Show >Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 15:28:11 -0700 (PDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Pics of Meier's 'Asket' on Dean Martin Show >I doubt that very many are interested in Koch's attempt to make >one face seem like another, but if any are... . Does anyone >recall when he or Korff were claiming that Meier's photo of Asket >was that of an unidentified model? Now the claim is that this >photo was of a gal on the Dean Martin show of the 1970s. >Granted, however, Koch's friends, who are still desperately >seeking to debunk Meier 23 years later after his Swiss contacts >began, did find a photo of a girl with the right hairdo! Dear Jim, Thank you for trying to analyse the faces. Regarding the quoted text above, may I help you? It was not me or Korff who claimed what you wrote above but it was in a report of Luc Buergin about an interview with Kalliope Meier: (excerpt) Buergin: Among others one photograph is duscussed very controversal. It shows an alledged female extraterrestrial with her space gun... Kalliope Meier: The way this photograph surfaced was dubious, indeed. At that time, Billy said that we had to leave the farm for a while. When we left, I just could see Mrs. G. arriving whose hair style was striking similar to the "extraterrestrial" Billy later presented on his photograph. Some weeks later Billy then showed us the new photographs. For Mrs. G.'s golden suit he in fact and truth a tanning foil which one could buy in every biggerSwiss warehouse. By the way, Mrs. G. was told to stay away from the farm shortly after the Presentation of these new photographs... (end of excerpt) So here no names are mentioned, not "Semjase", not "Asket". Dear Jim, don't worry about the time it sometimes take to find out wHat was (is) going on. This list here is a famous forum for UFO research and it was my interest to present new information (and maybe these become facts in this or that way) about Billy Meier. If you believe his experiences are genuine, well, do so. I remain suspicous about this man, perhaps because we here in Germany have become a bit sensible against "leaders" of any cult. I know others do so, too. Your measuring of heads is a bit - may I say it - daring because you do it with a photograph which is a reproduction in a book (which might be a reproduction of...) with a photograph in the Internet which is a reproduction (though very impressive, indeed) of a photograph taken of a video copy of another copy. To say it clearly: the photographs presented in the UFO-KURIER Webpage are taken from the tv screen (maybe the same technique as Meier applied), so there are more "aspects" of that female dancer - just as long as she was in the Dean Martin Show. Hopefully, you'll see her when in July Mr. Korff's tv-program will be broadcast. Jim, if you really want to contibute to this debate, then I have to make a suggestion. In another famous case, Ufology was not able to identify and locate another woman: Mr. Glenn Dennis's nurse. So here we have another woman. Why don't you start to try to find her? You in America have the opportunity to figure out who once was in that particular show. You can figure out names. You can locate this woman where she lives now (hopefully she is well!). You can ask her if she is the one from that show. You can get original photographs of her from that time. And don't forget to show her phoptographs of Billy's "Asket" and to ask her if she recognizes herself - or not. I don't know if Kal Korff has done so. I know that a convinced Meier believer will (can) not listen to anything which is presented to show that there might be a big hoax going on. But UpDates, I think so far, is not a forum of believers of this or that creed or confession but a tool to find out the truth and what is going on (out there). And the Meier case is not closed at all. Please let me know, if you want to have the whole Kalliope Meier interview here in this list (original in German and translated in English). And finally: I am only the one who posted it here to Errol's list. The research was done by Luc Buergin and Kal Korff. Kindest regards Joachim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? From: JOHN LUSHMAN <PHUFON@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:08:59 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 10:07:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? >From: Rory Lushman <PHUFON@Compuserve.com> >To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Tim Matthews - Ruining ufology >Date: Wednesday, 15th May 1998, 12.36pm >Tim and Eric have started up their own magazine, called 'UFO >Times'. Dear All, Many of you will have obviously noticed my error. The magazine title Tim and Eric are writing is called "UFO News" or it was the last time they spoke to me and not the "Times" as I had put. Of course we all know that "UFO Times" is a magazine produced once a decade by BUFORA. It will probably be once a Millennium now Dave has packed it in. Now here is Tim's chance to get back in and resurrect the dying magazine. It was interesting to read that some people are fed up with all the back biting going on in ufology. Hey, so are we all but as some of you know, if we let these people go unchallenged, who knows what will become of ufology. It may seem unpleasant but we must flush out the ego trippers, the con artists and people who take great pleasure in attacking all for no other apparent reason than their research differs from others. If you are going to challenge people, then do so. We should all ask each other more questions, this tightens up our research and may make us go back and have another look at the cases. There are many out there that can extract the truth from people and have excellent incite into the fantasy prone. There are many newsletters up and down the UK that take the Mickey out of others. This is all done in fun. However when we see people attack others in such a vindictive way for what they believe, then they are obviously insecure if they feel threatened by a difference of opinion. As I stated in my earlier post, there are many ufologists I disagree with but I respect them as people. Yes there are idiots who are making things up and they deserve the full weight of ufology to come crashing down on them. Of course Tim will respond, by picking out every little argument. Every little error but then he is so predictable. I'd even bet a fiver on it. He'll copy umpteen people in on his replies, thinking they actually care about him. Tim's reply will be long, trying to be witty, yet still managing to avoid the important issues and avoiding the questions. Cheers Rory Lushman. Pendle, Hyndburn UFO Network. (UK)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Magonia ETH Bulletin From: Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 17:43:29 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 10:24:59 -0400 Subject: Magonia ETH Bulletin Compliments of the Duke: By popular demand, and in response to instructions from the Father of the Chapel, National Union of Air Journalists, I'm forwarding the first three issues of the "Magonia ETH Bulletin" to the List. METHB is edited with wry humor & quite possibly a hidden agenda by John Harney (not a librarian, but a meteorologist), is published monthly on the Web, & may be found along with other goodies, including Kevin McCLure (not a librarian but a government agent)'s "Abduction Watch", at the Magonia site, URL: http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk Have a good read. best wishes Palomino D. Mustang Stalking Horse
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 06:50:43 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 09:52:26 -0400 Subject: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? > From: "sally mandella" <s_mandella@hotmail.com> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? > Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 20:58:48 PDT > Funny thing, you all call yourselves "researchers" and > "ufologists". > On what basis? You have no idea! Attached - a copy of my latest report entitled "Flying Saucers - Secret History!". The truth is that anybody denying the aline origin of flying saucers and flying triangles is immediately branded a 'troublemaker'. Read the report, take it to heart. If you have trouble with either the footnotes or attachment then let me know. Note that this report has been sent free and that I am interested in the truth. Call it a labour of love...... Tim Matthews. ----------------------------------------- Flying Saucers - Secret History. A new report by Tim Matthews. Over the last few months new information has emerged relating to the= terrestrial origins of flying saucers. This goes to the heart of modern-day= UFO research and because we neither claim that UFOs are of ET origin nor= that flying saucer sightings are explainable as evidence of natural= phenomena or simply "misidentifications" of mundane phenomena we are under= attack from all sides. Nevertheless, the evidence we have put forward has= encouraged many researchers to become engaged in a debate that some people= might have hoped had gone away. The fundamental point to make is that, according to a great deal of UFO= literature, despite the best efforts of researchers to identify the objects= described in UFO reports there remains a hard core, perhaps 1-2%, that are= said to represent =91true=92 or =91real=92 UFO phenomena. Therefore the= evidence suggests that many of this =91core=92 of 1-2% of sightings relates= to structured craft of =91unknown=92 origin. In this case, I am writing= about flying saucers - often quite small, seemingly constructed of some= metallic substance - occasionally described as =91brushed=92 aluminium: Take for example the McMinnville, Oregon, photographs taken by Paul Trent on= 11th May 1950. These are some of the best examples of a saucer photograph= and extensive analysis has shown that: "This is one of the few UFO reports in which all factors investigated,= geometric, psychological, and psychical, appear to be consistent with the= assertion that an extraordinary flying object, silvery, metallic,= disk-shaped, tens of meters in diameter, and evidently artificial, flew= within sight of two witnesses." This is very important UFO research which shines new light on this most= =91elusive=92 mystery of the Twentieth Century. Perhaps it is time for a= little demystification=85. We suspect that =91flying saucers=92 were developed, to some extent in= parallel, on either side of the Atlantic during the Second World War. This= realization, or understanding, is becoming increasingly a focus for= research even though a long period of time has passed since those= developments took place. Our research might be said to represent a =91small= voice of calm=92 within the UFO community, whose increasingly shrill calls= for Western governments to =91come clean about UFOs and aliens=92 tend to= obscure the truth about flying saucers. To others, our research is an example of the =91Federal Hypothesis=92, that= which states that: "The answer seems to be that , in the USA at least, UFOs are controlled not= so much by an intelligence as by an Intelligence Agency". In the first place, it is certainly not the case the new generation of= man-made flying saucer advocates are "apologists" for Nazism as is= suggested by the skeptics who claim that because some "nazi" saucer= researchers are of dubious political persuasion then all subsequent= research is invalid. This type of guilt by association is, of course, a rather ineffective way of= arguing with the evidence. Secondly, debunkers argue that because some supposed sightings of flying= saucers have been explained or that they are explainable then all sightings= should be called into question. The reader has seen that there are = impressive UFO sightings that clearly relate to structured circular craft= and that these have been reported from around the world with a= concentration upon the USA - a fact which surprises few researchers. Despite the argument that German scientists had no more advanced technology= than the allies, one American was very clear as to the technical= achievements of nazi scientists: Major General Hugh Knerr, Deputy= Commanding General for Administration of US Strategic Forces in Europe,= wrote to Lieutenant General Carl Spatz in March 1945: "Occupation of German scientific and industrial establishments has revealed= the fact that we have been alarmingly backward in many fields of research,= if we do not take this opportunity to seize the apparatus and the brains= that developed it and put this combination back to work promptly, we will= remain several years behind while we attempt to cover a field already= exploited." It is possible to look into the area of German flying saucers without= reference to so-called "established" sources. These authors are often= targetted for attack by skeptics and include Allen Harbinson, who has= contributed to the subject through his exciting series of Project Saucer= novels and the more recent non-fiction paperback "Projekt UFO" and Renate= Vesco, whose research appeared in the late 1960s as a paperback with the= title "Intercept But Don=92t Shoot" and later as "Intercept UFO". Vesco= appears to have cooperated with "hidden knowledge" writer David Hatcher= Childress in the production of "Man-Made UFOs - 50 Years of Suppression".= In addition to these books, which are interesting though imperfect in their= presentation (and omission) of the evidence, there are also two books= written in the 1970s by Ernst Zundel under the pseudonym "Mattern= Friedrich" which were popular for a short time within the far-right= political community and may still be available. Zundel himself is a controversial figure for a number of obvious reasons= which include support for anti-Semitic groups, his publication of books and= magazines denying the holocaust, and his links with most of the influential= neo-Nazi groups in Germany, Britain, the USA and Canada. His most important= book on the subject of German flying saucers is entitled "UFOs: Nazi Secret= Weapons". Despite the fact that Zundel is a character with whom we have little or = nothing in common from a political point of view, his espousal of far-right= politics neither means that every piece of information in his two books is= wrong nor that they should be ignored. It is important to realize that= Zundel=92s main purpose in writing and dissemination these books was not= primarily an attempt to advocate the supposed "superiority" of Nazi= technologies but to make a fast buck. In short, Zundel did it for the= money, and he has made it quite clear that these publications are, in his= view, not to be taken 100% seriously. The skeptics point to Zundel as a= major source on German secret projects despite the fact that there are= several other books and articles, including primary material, that have no= link with such questionable politics. Where we have a situation where= skeptics will use any tactic, we can expect them to claim that any use of= contemporary German-language material is evidence of "apology" for nazi war= crimes. This is not the case although we do not any longer intend to look= over our shoulder every time we mention German pre-war or wartime= technology. We research this subject in order to shed new and important= light on the fundamental reality of man-made flying saucers. The final point to bare in mind regarding this subject is that the victors= of any conflict have a head start in writing the history books and, in the= case of the immediate aftermath of the Second World War, burying or= spiriting away evidence, documents, plans and blueprints, actual technology= and a variety of other materials that the allies did not, and do not, want= the public to know about - for a variety of reasons that may become= apparent. Despite the fact that the man-made origins of flying saucers are of the= greatest implications in terms of our understanding of postwar history,= "man-made UFO" researchers have to some extent been deliberately ostracized= and smeared. Nevertheless, a great deal of new information has emerged in recent years= and there is still more to come. The suggestion that fifty years after the= end of the Second World War new information cannot emerge because this= period has been the subject of the most intense scrutiny is an illogical= one. For any number of reasons information can stay buried and, beyond mere= speculation, we know that files relating to the Second World War remain= locked in the deep dark vaults of the Public Records Office in Kew, London.= Remember this - records are routinely held for 30 years and can be held for= 50, 75 and 100 years after the event. By the time they emerge they may= have been altered, edited or sanitized to "protect" the identity of those= responsible for the implementation of policy. One simple example that comes= to mind is the emergence in recent years of new and credible information= about the German nuclear research programme underway during the Second= World War. Much of this has been the result of research undertaken by Philip Henshall= who has also contributed a great deal to our understanding of advanced= German weapons projects through his books on the rocket research facilities= at Pennemunde on the Baltic coast. Even before the allies landed in Normandy in June 1944 special groups of= language and technical research specialists had been organised in order to= recover as much of the technological hardware and research data relating to= advanced German weapons. This effort was dedicated to getting hold of much= more than data on the V2 rocket - the most obvious and well-known example= of German scientific expertise. Already, through an intelligence estimate= passed to the allies via a Norwegian source and known as the "Oslo Letter",= the allies were aware of other weapons under development and in operation= by axis powers. These included radio-controlled bombs, huge guns, rocket= launchers, new radar systems, long-range bombers and torpedoes. It would= seem that they might also have been interested in a circular-wing aircraft= with Vertical-Take-Off-and Landing (VTOL) capabilities. In short, an early= and relatively primitive flying saucer=85.. In order to make some progress in terms of this research it seems necessary= to avoid using the standard sources - Vesco and Harbinson - even though= some of their information is valid as we have seen. Other sources are= equally intriguing. One source indicates that from the mid 1930s there was= significant interest in both Vertical-Take Off and-Landing (VTOL) and= circular wing aircraft. This led to a number of designs one of which was= the Focke-Wulf VTOL.: Professor Heinrich Focke was particularly interested in emerging helicopter= and autogyro technologies and was involved in the design and production of= the FW6, Fa223, Fa226, Fa283 and 284 models during the war. The creation of= the jet engine encouraged him to design a propulsion system known as the= "turbo-shaft" still used in most helicopters today. In 1939 he patented a= saucer-type aircraft with enclosed twin rotors. This was a revolutionary= development described as follows: "The exhaust nozzle forked in two at the end of the engine and ended in two= auxiliary combustion chambers located on the trailing edge of the wing.= When fuel was added these combustion chambers they would act as= afterburners to provide horizontal propulsion to Focke=92s design. The= control at low speed was achieved by alternately varying the power from= each auxiliary combustion chamber." This was by no means the only circular aircraft. Another similar aircraft was the troubled AS6 partly designed by the leading= aviation expert in Germany Dr. Alexander Lippisch whose work at the= Gottingen Aviation Institute was legendary and whose impact upon postwar= =91UFOs=92 cannot be underestimated. His revolutionary "DM" series of small= triangular aircraft were built and flown in conjunction with students at= Darmstadt and Munich Universities (hence the DM prefix) and used rocket= propulsion. The plans for these were transported to the USA after the war. His most advanced design was undoubtedly the Lippisch Supersonic Flying Wing= which, although never built, strongly hinted at the triangular =91UFOs=92= of the 1980s and 1990s. The information about the AS6 (V1) emerged in an article written by Hans= Ebert and Hans Meier based to a certain extent upon information and a= photograph provided by German aviation expert Wolfgang Spate. (Spate was= the former Commander of Operational Test Unit 16 during the War and more= recently recognized as a leading aviation expert. He served in the= refounded postwar Luftwaffe.) The article, entitled "Prototypen -= Einselschicksale deutchser Flugzeuge, Der Kreisflugler AS6 V1", was= included in a the respected Luftfahrt International in 1980. In certain= respects the AS6, built by Messerschmidt, was based upon similar thinking= as the Zimmerman V173 "flying flapjack" - designed for use by the US Navy= from 1942. The "flying flapjack" was far more successful and developed at= the Chance-Vought works in Connecticut and despite its=92 supposed= limitations was a propeller-driven aircraft designed to be flown from an= aircraft carrier, hence the need for Short Take off and Landing (STOL)= capability. The flapjack was able to fly at low speeds of approximately= 40mph. The flight envelope was 40-425 mph and a more advanced version, the= XF5U1, was also tested. One other important feature of these circular wings was an early =91stealth= =92 capability. The Horten brothers Reimar and Walter, known for their many= successful flying wing prototypes, had developed a composite wing made of= plywood held together by sawdust, charcoal and glue intended to absorb= radar waves for use in their HlX model. In 1946 Chance-Vought was using a similar technique. A skin called= =91metalite=92 was used in one of its=92 circular wings. Thomas C.Smith,= former President of the Woodstream Corporation and a Penn State graduate= engineer at the time, reported that he had seen a =91flying saucer=92= (XF5U1?) taking off vertically from the Chance-Vought facilities in= Stratford, Connecticut at the time and that it had used this composite.= This was reported last year. This means that the circular wing or =91flying saucer=92 had a limited= stealth capability years before the use of Radar Absorbent Materials was= considered for other advanced aircraft=85. We can certainly dismiss all the nonsense so prevalent in various media on= the subject of German flying saucers which relates to the development of= circular-wing aircraft as the result of "occult" or "mystical" beliefs. = The truth is that the circular wing was designed for technical reasons:= circular and flying wing designs are inherently stronger and are easier to= build. Whilst it is likely that any information relating to the limited AS6 would= have been taken by the allies for examination at a later date it would= seem that there is some evidence to suggest that a more advanced= jet-powered flying saucer was at least designed, if not built, from around= 1943 onwards. The first source is Flight Captain Rudolph Schriever who came= forward in 1950 and claimed that he had worked with a small team at= facilities near Prague with a view to developing a flying saucer-type= vehicle. The Schriever story first emerged in "Der Spiegel" magazine dated= March 30th 1950 entitled "Untertassen-Flieger Kombination": "A former Luftwaffe captain and aircraft designer. Rudolph Schriever, who= says engineers throughout the world experimented in the early 1940s with= "flying saucers" is willing to build one for the United States in six to= nine months. The 40 year old Prague University graduate said he made= blueprints for such a machine, which he calls a "flying top", before= Germany=92s collapse and that the blueprints were stolen from his= laboratory. He says the machine would be capable of 2,600 mph with a radius= of 4,000 miles, Schriever is a US Army driver at Bremerhaven." This is a most credible story. Schriever claimed that the model built for= testing was completed in 1944 with a view to flying it in 1945.= Nevertheless, the Russian advance ended any hopes of a test-flight. A 1975 Luftfahrt International report took these claims seriously and noted= that after Schriever=92s death in the late 1950s papers found amongst his= belongings had included technical drawings of a flying saucer. Schriever seemed to argue that although a saucer had existed it had not= flown. This is contradicted by a possible eyewitness, George Klein. He claimed after the war in an interview, given on November 18th 1954 to the= Zurich-based "Tages Anzeiger", that he had actually seen a flying saucer= test on 14th February 1945 and that the craft had performed remarkably well= reaching an altitude of 30,000ft in 3 minutes as well as a high speed of= hundreds of miles and hour. Despite the fact that subsequent information= leads us to conclude that a jet-powered flying disc was developed at the= end of the war Klein spoke of a "ray-guided disc". Despite this fanciful= claim some of the things he said made more sense. For instance, he claimed= that some of the work on the flying saucers had taken place at Pennemunde.= Pennemunde was of course the focal point for the development of the A4/V2= rocket. Interestingly, Klein also claimed that the necessary stability for= the saucer had been attained through the use of a gyroscope. This is= exactly the method used in the later German rockets developed by the Von= Braun/Dornberger team. What is more, the entire rocket effort moved to the= Mittlewerke underground facilities near Nordhausen in the Harz Mountains.= It is claimed, by several other witnesses, that a flying saucer was tested= in the vicinity of Kahla In Thuringia in early 1945. The evidence presented above seems to have been taken seriously not only by= mainstream magazines and national newspapers in the 1950s but also by the= author of "Brighter Than A Thousand Suns", Robert Jungk. This is an= authoritative and historical account of the development of the Atomic Bomb= written by a respected author. The book itself, still available and= published by Harcourt and Brace, received critical acclaim from Bertrand= Russell, amongst others. A section of text on page 87 of the paperback= edition states: "The indifference of Hitler and those about him to research in natural= sciences amounted to positive hostility.*" The accompanying footnote reads as follows: "*The only exception to the lack of interest shown by authority was= constituted by he Air Ministry [Reichs Luftfahrt Ministirium or RLM, TM].= The Air Force research workers were in a peculiar position. They produced= interesting new types such as the Delta [Lippisch and Horten, TM] ..and= flying discs. The first of these "flying saucers", as they were later= called - circular in shape, with a diameter of some 45 yards - were built= by the specialists Schriever, Habermohl and Miethe. They were first= airborne on February 14th 1945, over Prague and reached in three minutes a= height of nearly eight miles. They had a speed of 1250mph which was doubled= in subsequent tests. It is believed that Habermohl fell into the hands of= the Russians. Miethe developed at a later date similar "flying saucers" at= A.V Roe and Company for the United States". This use of the original Schriever story is interesting if only because the= author felt that the information was good and warranted exposure. Given the= nature of the book, we might well ask whether the author had any other= information that supported the claims made as to the characteristics of the= circular aircraft. It is up to the reader to decide whether these claims= make any sense at all and more importantly, how this might affect our= understanding of flying saucer history=85=85 Until recently, it would have been rather safer and perhaps more sensible to= argue that although various prototype saucers existed in whatever form they= were never tested. Safety is often the best policy given the shark infested= waters of modern-day UFO research. However, thanks to three years of= painstaking research by UK astronomy, aviation and photographic expert Bill= Rose which included on-site research in Germany, Canada and America we now= know a great deal more. Initially Rose felt, like many skeptics, that the= evidence for German flying saucer (and UFO) reality was very shaky. Nevertheless, and without reference to the UFO community in his personal= quest for the truth, he was able to use his expert technical knowledge to= follow up leads and to make significant progress. First of all he was able to discover that Dr. Walter Miethe, whom all= sources agree was involved with Schriever, Klaus Habermohl and Giuseppe= Belluzzo (an Italian engineer) had been the Director of the saucer= programme at two facilities located outside Prague. In May 1945, after= testing of the prototype had taken place, both Miethe and Schriever were= able to flee in the direction of Allied forces. Habermohl was captured by= Soviet forces and spirited East where he ended up working on various= aviation projects quite probably at facilities located outside Moscow. It would seem that Klaus Habermohl was the man who developed the radial-flow= jet engine, described in various articles as a system of "adjustable"= nozzles, of great significance just ten years later. (Radial-flow allowed= for VTOL performance and used the little-known "Coanda" effect. ) Rose= learned that not only had test flights taken place but that film footage of= these had been taken. This had always been rumoured and makes perfect sense= given the nazi fetish for keeping records on everything. The footage, of= good quality, has subsequently been stored in a secure location and shown= only to a handful of people. Rose was shown some stills taken from the= original film and given his expert photo-technical background concluded,= after careful consideration, that this was probably real and historical= footage. He calculated that the craft was around half the size claimed in Klein=92s= report. The saucer, rather less contoured and sleek than postwar artists=92= impressions might suggest (and unlike Bob Lazar=92s S4 "Sports Model"!),= was perhaps 75ft in diameter. The saucer was shown in flight above the= runway over the heads of a couple of observers. Although this is in itself of the greatest significance other more= contradictory evidence has emerged. One of the people that Rose met had= good information about the February test flight and was able to confirm= that several people had seen the test-flight - as we might expect. It was= said that Schriever himself had piloted the test craft. This does seems= sensible (and logical) given Schriever=92s background in the Luftwaffe -= although it is at variance with his own account. One can only speculate as= to why this may be. It should be pointed out that the performance= characteristics of this jet-powered aircraft have probably been exaggerated= and although it might have been technically possible given further research= and development to approach supersonic speeds, this was almost certainly= not achieved in February 1945. Finally, it seems as if Klein himself was= centrally involved in the saucer project and may indeed have had= responsibilities for procurement. We know a little more about Dr.Miethe. One of the important pieces of= information came in the form of a rare group photograph showing various= young German scientists in 1933. The photograph shows Werner von Braun and= Walter Miethe. It would seem that these two knew each other well. During= the War various lists of "wanted" German scientists were drawn up. One of= these was the "Black List" used by Counter Intelligence Corps and Combined= Allied Field Teams (CAFT) as they moved through Germany from 1944 in order= to help them get hold of the important scientific personnel. Dr.von Braun was certainly at the top of the list and if Miethe and he were= old friends and had cooperated on early rocket projects, there is little= doubt that Miethe would have been a target too. Nevertheless, his work near= Prague put him out of reach and only through Miethe=92s own efforts did the= allied teams get their hands on him. The immediate postwar is critical to an understanding of both the myth and= reality of flying saucers or UFOs. One thing is for sure: hundreds of nazi= scientists as well as intelligence personnel , many of whom had been= involved in the abuse of thousands of slave labourers, were transported via= Operation Paperclip (so named after the original designation Overcast was= compromised). Many of these technical personnel were sent initially to Fort= Bliss in Texas. From here they were farmed out, according to their ability= and expertise, to the many advanced scientific facilities dotted throughout= the USA and Canada. Interestingly, Chance-Vought, builder of both the V173 and XF5U1 prototypes,= moved its=92 base of operations to Texas in early 1947. The company seems= to have been less than candid at this early stage about the true nature and= extent of its=92 involvement in flying saucers. The official story of the demise of the XF5U1 - that there was no interest= in developing a propeller driven aircraft from 1948 after the advent of= jets - is now in question. It would seem that a jet-powered version using= Allison J33 engines was actually test-flown at Muroc Field in 1947 . The= history books tell us that the propeller-driven version was to be tested= here before the programme was cancelled. Nevertheless, our understanding= of the situation is that technical drawings of the jet-powered version have= now surfaced through a series of Freedom Of Information Act requests. Given= the overall design of this craft and the many sightings of flying saucers= in New Mexico and the Western seaboard in the late 1940s it is safe to= concluded that the sightings related to a saucer of terrestrial origin with= limited performance characteristics. The best of these are arguably the sightings over Muroc Field reported by= serving military personnel on 8th July 1947 and the subject of subsequent= internal investigation which revealed that the object seen was disc-shaped= moving at around 300 miles per hour. The military witnesses Gerald Neuman and Joseph Ruvolo stated that in their= opinion this was a man-made aircraft travelling at only 300 miles per hour= and this view was supported by a civilian witness named Lenz. Similar objects were seen - many of them in and around the White Sands= Proving Ground where we know for sure that many of the Paperclip scientists= were working. It is probable that at this stage people were seeing a= US-built circular-wing aircraft and only gradually, in the late 1940s/early= 1950s, were German advances incorporated into the overall saucer programme.= After all, military historians agree that a huge amount of material was= recovered from facilities in Germany and it took a great deal of time and= effort to collate this. We know both from Gerald K Haines report and from= the recently declassified (1995) Air Technical Intelligence Centre report= on "Project Silver Bug" that prototype saucers were actually test-flown= (obviously before 1955) in order to determine their usefulness in terms of= future dispersed base operations designed to reduce vulnerability to= Russian air attack. Hence the possible use of VTOL aircraft from= camouflaged facilities. I also suggest that the sightings reported by military personnel during the= 1952 =91Operation Mainbrace=92 may have related to a similar flying saucer= prototype. It seems to me that such a major exercise would offer an= excellent opportunity for testing and evaluation. Given that we now believe that Klaus Habermohl designed the first= radial-flow engine, a revolutionary development by any standards (even= today) in 1943, it is likely that within a few years progress had been made= although the advanced nature of the engine made only for slow progress. The incorporation of a radial-flow engine using the Coanda Effect in= combination with a circular wing made this a weapon worth keeping secret.= The jet-powered circular wing and the Silver Bug craft were two out of three= variations upon a theme. There were two Silver Bug prototypes, Projects Y= and Y2, the first using a standard axial flow engine, the second the more= advanced type. "Project Y" was also designated P724 (P being the AV Roe= Company project number) and was in fact a hybrid saucer/AVRO Arrow (the= Arrow was an advanced supersonic aircraft cancelled in the early 1960s= supposedly after the US pressurized on the Canadian government). The existence of projects beyond the limited Avrocar adds further weight to= the suggestion that Avrocar was little more than a cover for much more= advanced aircraft. Let us be quite clear on this point: Both Projects Y and= Y2 were separate and distinct from the Avrocar and in fact the evidence= further suggests that the craft test-flown near Prague in February 1945 was= actually more advanced! It is interesting to note that proponents of the= extra-terrestrial hypothesis tend to use the failed Avrocar programme as= evidence that flying saucers "must be" of ET origin. We must now dismiss= such misleading conclusions. On a separate note and in view of the suggestion that underground facilities= have been built in the postwar period it now seems that in certain cases= these were used to house small numbers of flying saucer-type aircraft. This= is not to say that they were located in the wilds of Canada but more likely= within the White Sands Proving Ground and later on or near the Groom Lake= facilities in the Nevada Desert. Whilst the man-made reality of flying= discs has been hijacked by Bob Lazar, John Lear and a generation of US= Ufologists, it seems as if the remote nature of Groom dry Lake bed was= considered both with flying saucers and the U2 spyplane in mind. There is no doubt that all kinds of weird and wonderful aircraft are tested= from Groom Lake but in terms of flying saucers it seems as if they may= have arrived in 1959/60. The facilities there, although home to secret CIA= and possibly National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) aircraft have primarily= been operated as US Air Force Flight Test Centre Detachment 3 (AFFTC Det= 3). AFFTC is headquartered at Edwards Air Force Base, formerly Muroc Field.= It is vital for the reader to understand that Silver Bug, Project Y and in= fact all the saucer programmes we now know about had very strong links with= the US Air Force. In fact, Dr.Miethe worked primarily for the USAF even though he was= sub-contracted to AVRO - possibly as a cover for the real efforts underway= in the USA whereby the design work was undertaken in Canada and the= majority of test flights within US borders. Having said that there was a= mention of Canadian saucers made in several newspaper articles and books in= the early 1950s. Even Donald Keyhoe notes a conversation with an "informed"= source on this subject in his populist "Flying Saucers From Outer Space"= (1953). More interesting was an article featured in Look magazine dated June 14th= 1955 (Volume 19) which featured a design study for a flying saucer produced= by Thomas Turner, an British aeronautical engineer with Republic Aviation= Corporation. It would seem that Turner might have had some knowledge of= Silver Bug if only because his proposal for a flying saucer was almost= exactly the same as the ATIC aircraft. In addition Turner=92s proposal= includes use of the Coanda effect and the placing of a pilot in a prone= position in order to allow for high acceleration and quick turns. Both these would seem to come from an understanding of German projects the= skeptics deny existed. Other notable features of the article include the= use of language, for instance the following which reminds us of the= introduction to the Project Silver Bug report: "Future airports built for vertically rising flying saucers would have no= need of the long, vulnerable runway=92s today=92s fighters require. The= complete operation could go underground. Tunnels with take-off shafts set= into the ground, complete with maintenance bays, fuel and crew quarters,= would be bombproofed shelters for a saucer squadron. The shafts would be= sealed after take-off for camouflage and protection." This sounds rather like the need for dispersed base operations discussed in= the Silver Bug document. I further suggest that we now have a possible= primary source for Renate Vesco=92s insistence that flying saucer bases= were situated in the wilds of Canada in a =91remote area of British= Columbia=92. A picture of such a saucer base is shown in the article and reproduced in= this report. The quality is not that good: The article quoted Brigadier General Benjamin Kelsey (Deputy Director, Air= Force Research and Development) who commented that a major problem was the= existence of longer runways for the modern fighter and how these were= vulnerable and might be destroyed through a single crippling enemy strike.= Hence the need for VTOL operations. The article included above is of the= utmost importance: in the mid-1950s at the same time that both the US Air= Force and CIA were attempting to play down the significance of flying= saucer and UFO reports there is substantial evidence to suggest that design= teams were building and testing flying saucer prototypes. Although it has proved difficult to find out about the reality or otherwise= of a separate saucer-testing facility situated at Papoose Lake within Area= 51 Bill Rose has been given information that this was the HQ for much= saucer prototype testing and that several accidents and crashes resulted= from use of early radial-flow engines. More recently the unusual story of archeologist and historian Jerry Freeman= emerged in a series if article published in the well-known Las Vegas Sun= newspaper. Simply stated, Freeman wanted to find evidence of a 19th Century= pioneer wagon train known as "the lost =9149ers". Unfortunately for him,= and for history, their remains lay within the boundaries of Area 51!= Undeterred, Freeman decided to go on an expedition into the twilight zone= and after several days reached Papoose Dry Lake. He saw a security vehicle in the exact same place that the claimed S4= facilities were hidden and also thought that he saw come sort of door= opening in the rock face. It is possible, that electrogravitic systems= have been tested both at the Papoose and Groom Lake facilities. It might be sensible, at this stage, to note the existence of several texts= on the question of future propulsion systems for flying discs written in= the 1950s. One of these, entitled "Electrogravitics Systems" mentions a= research project called "Project Winterhaven" undertaken in 1952 in order= to validate Thomas Townsend Browns=92 "Biefeld-Brown" effect. The report= in question makes for fascinating reading and states that: "Using a number of assumptions as to the nature of gravity, the report= postulated a saucer as the basis of a possible interceptor with Mach 3= capability. Creation of a local gravitational system would confer upon the= fighter the sharp-edged changes of motion typical in space." And that: "Glenn Martin say gravity control could be achieved in six years, but they= add that it would entail a Manhattan District type effort to bring it= about." The reader will perhaps not be surprised to learn that once again this= report was kept away from public view for some 35 years by Air Force= Aeronautical Laboratories at=85=85..Wright Patterson AFB! It was= declassified and made available through the Technical Library in the early= 1990s. Whatever the final truth of the matter, we have done enough to establish= that flying saucers grew from separate and distinct German-American= projects begun in World War Two. Relatively primitive German discs must have been developed partly because of= the failure of the Luftwaffe to defend Axis airfields from allied bombing= and the resulting need for VTOL operation . The V173 that became the XF5U1= and later a jet-powered "flying pancake" was born out of a US Navy= requirement for an STOL aircraft. So why the secrecy? A number of simple answers emerge: firstly the radial-flow engine is still= advanced today. It allows for supersonic flight and tremendous VTOL= performance. A revolutionary propulsion technology, electrostatics, might= threaten the economic status quo. A circular wing offers good stealth= capability and effective handling at low speeds. According to the Silver= Bug documentation, radial-flow allows for an aircraft to perform a range of= staggering maneuvers including flying edge-on - a characteristic noted in= numerous flying saucer/UFO sightings. It would seem that even if the most straightforward flying saucer stories= are to be believed then these aircraft have been used primarily as= high-performance reconnaissance vehicles. The psychological effects of seeing a flying saucer could only be heightened= if it was "unknown" to the observer - an aircraft that did not appear in= anything more than pulp fiction tracts about terrifying close encounters= with aliens and which was regarded pretty much as a product of science= fiction not science fact. Never forget the CIA memorandum circulated in= 1952 by Director Walter B.Smith which noted the possible use of flying= saucers for the purposes of psychological warfare. There is also the whole, and unresolved, political question of the mass= transportation of nazi scientists and their families, some with dubious= wartime records, to the USA under the secret Paperclip programme. Although= the existence of Paperclip was known in the early postwar period the actual= shocking details of the deals between victor and vanquished led to great= concern particularly by those who survived the horrors of concentration= camps and/or forced labour under German occupation. Although Paperclip may= have resulted in technological achievements the moral position is certainly= open to question. It would seem that the Soviets may have had their saucers too and= undoubtedly more is to emerge from the archives there. As a result the US would undoubtedly have been concerned to build the= similar and competing aircraft that was Silver Bug. Once again, such Soviet= work would have been based upon recovered German, not alien, technologies= and there has been some suggestion that the Soviets did indeed develop= flying saucers. Jan Aldrich=92s "Project 1947" has sought to collate= information about early flying saucers sightings and media reports. One of these reports may have originated via Project Wringer, a postwar= effort tasked with interviewing military, industrial and other personnel of= former Axis countries, Prisoners of War held in the Soviet Union and other= Eastern Bloc nations or displaced persons with intelligence or military= information. Jan Aldrich found the following report whilst undertaking= research at the US National Archives: "10. SOURCE: EP 134892, Rpt. No. 5418-47758 dated 19th January 1954. Date of= Observation: May 1953. "Preamble: During his internment in PW camp #1 in STALINGRAD (48/42N 44/30E)= SOURCE ????? some ???? of general interest and ??? allegedly observed a= couple of flying saucers. SOURCE was always interned in the camp. He= understood a little Russian." "Flying saucers: SOURCE emphasized that he had never seen or heard anything= of flying saucers before he observed two of them on a dusty morning over= Stalingrad in May 1953 when he was on guard within the camp. He observed= them in a rather high altitude flying fast in one direction, one following= the other. Thinking they had something to do with scientific research of= Russia he forgot about his observation until he came back home in Oct.1953= and saw designs of flying saucers in West European magazines. He could not= provide further details." It is difficult to know what to make of such reports except to point out= that they were taken seriously by operatives within the intelligence= community. In fact, all the evidence we have - some of which is included in= my forthcoming book entitled UFO Revelation - is that in the early 1950s= there was a reorientation of thinking relating to flying saucer sightings= whereby the CIA, particularly, chose to concentrate upon attacking the= veracity of flying saucer reports by doubting the credibility of the= witness. At the same time, the Agency knew, as Haines admits, that saucer= prototypes were under construction. Study of the many CIA documents made available through FOIA requests= indicates that the CIA was misleading the public. The Agency often= directed requests for information on flying saucer sightings to the Air= Technical Intelligence Centre (ATIC) at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. Whilst both the Agency and ATIC were claiming that they were unable to= determine the origin of flying saucers ATIC/WADC were working upon Silver= Bug - and maybe more besides. In addition to this, Project Grudge had= recently been downgraded (March 1952) and redesignated Blue Book and this= was headquartered at=85..Wright-Patterson Air Force Base!!. In any case= Blue Book investigators were unable to explain away some 701 of 12,918= sightings they investigated. Project Blue Book was downgraded through the= 1950s to the stage where there was only a handful of personnel working on= UFO sightings. In fact, according to David Jacobs, the downgrading took place after= September 1953 and went hand in hand with Air Force regulation 200-2 which= stated that local Air Force base commanders could only discuss sightings if= they had been solved and that any others should be classified. Jacobs also= notes that February 1955 (Silver Bug was released from ATIC-WADC on the= 15th February) was of significance because ATIC sought to explain away as= many sightings as possible and to leave no unsolved cases. Project Blue Book Special Report Number 14 , dated May 5th, 1955 and= release in October determined that; "On the basis of this study we believe that no objects such as those= popularly described as flying saucers have overflown the United States." We now know that this was a lie: "CIA officials knew that the British and Canadians were already= experimenting with "flying saucers". Project Y was a Canadian-British-US= developmental operation to produce a non-conventional flying-saucer-type= aircraft, and Agency official feared that the Soviets were testing similar= devices." The downgrading and the debunking of UFO reports was deliberate and took= place at exactly the same time that the US was working upon advanced flying= saucers. Once this is understood and established the official attitudes= towards flying saucer sightings make more sense. Secrecy, and perhaps even= paranoia, appear to have gripped the intelligence community and the USAF.= Even now, some forty five years after Silver Bug was test-flown former= project workers remain tight-lipped. We can only conclude that silence in= this case indicates particularly advanced technologies and the need to keep= a lid on the details relating to them. One could easily make a case that the development and debunking of flying= saucers was undertaken at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base and it is to be= hoped that this document will encourage people with information about US= saucer projects to come forward. It is up to UFO researchers to reorient= their thinking, to come to terms with man-made flying saucer reality and= the ongoing cover-up relating to it=85. The case for man-made UFOs is stronger than ever whereas the evidence for= "alien flying saucers" is wholly untenable. We have introduced here a new= line of research and a new perspective on UFO reality. Beyond the fantastic= claims and mystification of UFOs by too many UFO "researchers" the painful= truth is that flying saucers were, and are, a tremendous human technical= achievement. The truth is that serious research exists only beyond the unfortunate= skeptic-believer dialectic. Surely it is to the military-industrial complex and not the heavens above= that we should look for the origins of the flying saucer=85=85 Tim Matthews, April 1998.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Filer's Files #19 From: Majorstar <Majorstar@aol.com> [George A. Filer Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:29:29 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 10:08:41 -0400 Subject: Filer's Files #19 Filer's Files #19-1998 MUFON Skywatch Investigations George A. Filer, MUFON Eastern Director, May 14, 1998, Majorstar@aol.com (609) 654-0020 It is time for the truth to be brought out... Behind the scenes high-ranking Air Force officers are soberly concerned about the UFOs. But through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe the unknown flying objects are nonsense. I urge immediate Congressional action to reduce the dangers from secrecy about unidentified flying objects. Former CIA Director Vice Admiral Roscoe Hillenkoetter, signed statement to Congress, August 22, 1960. Thanks to Close Encounters. A CLEAR THREAT TO THE UNITED STATES AND THE WORLD: Editors Note: As a former Intelligence officer I agree whole heartedly with Admiral Roscoe Hillenkoetter that there is good evidence to believe there may be a threat and danger to the security of the United States and the safety of our aircraft. Several astronauts, military officers, airline pilots, and I stand ready to brief concerning this threat. Last weekend, I participated in the Mid Atlantic MUFON Symposium in Bethesda, Maryland with a group of outstanding speakers, who outlined some of the dangers. Rob Swiatek a knowledgeable Ufologist spoke concerning numerous UFO sightings around the country. He played a tape of the near collision of a UFO with a Swiss Airline� 747 aircraft over New York on August 9, 1997. Interestingly, our government refused to cooperate with Swiss Airlines personnel concerning an investigation. Linda Moulton Howe informed us that several Air Force offiacers had told her that our ICBMs at Maelstrom Air Force Base were knocked off line by UFO penetrations. A detailed account is in her new book Glimpses of Other Realities Vol. 2. Dr. David Jacob's of Temple University told of his 700 interviews with persons who believe they are abductees. Jacob's new book, The Threat should be read by everyone in authority in our country. I briefed on the Roger Moore TV Special, The KGB Secret Files and UFOs that clearly indicate that UFOs were a threat to Soviet Defenses The Soviets have film of a downed UFO and have lost aircraft and radar installations to alien attacks, that will be shown on TNT. I also discussed the mysterious disappearance of a Lear Jet making an approach into Lebanon, NH on Christmas Eve 1996, after a huge UFO had been observed in the area. I also spoke about other sightings along our East coast with emphasis on Georgia sightings. Dr. Bruce Maccabee, a Navy physicist showed high quality videos of UFOs over Arizona and Mexico. His book is UFOs Are Real- Here�s the Proof. Dr. Charles Emmons of Gettysburg College and sociologist Robert Hall an abductee researcher also talked about the threat. We laughed among ourselves calling this Fright Night! We might be wrong, but as I sit here holding my grandson, I feel it is time to examine the evidence for the sake of future generations. Congressional and Presidential inquiries concerning UFOs are continually answered by the military and intelligence agencies in the negative. Congress has now cut our defenses by a third since Desert Storm. Yet, an alien threat is apparently increasing. During my inquiries to Air Force personnel I'm told they stopped investigating UFOs, because the Condon Committee told them their was no threat. It turns out that based on a study by Dr. Michael Swords, 14 of the 16 scientists actually recommended further research, but Dr. Edward Condon indicated no further study was needed. Essentially only his conclusion was followed by the Air Force. I consider the lack of interest by our government to be similar to the days before Pearl Harbor. Many warnings of Japanese intent, but our nation slept because they could not believe a foreign power would attack. I ask is there any military leader or congressman with the courage of former Congressman and President Gerald Ford who asked for hearings in 1966? The majority of Americans who believe in UFOs would be very grateful. Are there any newsmen who care about the safety of hundreds of people in a Swiss Airline 747 who came within a few feet of a collision with a UFO over New York on August 9, 1997? I guess Washington gossip is more interesting than investigating the Swiss Airline story? There is one patriot in the news media who cares and I salute her. Sarah McClendon, 88, year old Grand Old White House Correspondent was astute enough to attend the symposium. She told me it was an excellent symposium and talk. She recently published an article supporting UFO Congressional Hearings. (See Filer�s Files #14) I encourage all who have friends in high places to contact them and to ask they investigate with an open mind. Further I ask the Air Force to look at their Fast Walker data, Space shuttle and satellite photography for these craft. If Dr. Jacob's is right our lives, our country and our world may be at stake! I feel there is definitely unknown aircraft in our skies that are causing a safety hazard and danger. There also seems to be some type of contact with alien life forms by sincere, honest and frightened people. President Clinton, Anthony Lake, even Science Advisor Gibbons have inquired and got a no from CIA and DIA. I was one of the few who predicted the Tet offensive. I operate with no funds and can find five good sightings a week from respected people. We have a $30 billion Black Budget, I suggest that all suspicious evidence be sent to a central location for correlation. The data is there, but intelligence collection requirements need to be put in place and the data has to be correlated. I'm told Russian satellites are picking up evidence. Our satellites may have to be reconfigured. I ask were any of our Black Budget aircraft hovering for 30 minutes over Mullica Hill, NJ on May 7, or Santos, Brazil for 40 minutes on March 30? NEW JERSEY On May 7, a ten year old boy and an eight year old girl report seeing a UFO above their home in Mullica Hill, NJ. They described the craft has much larger than their house and hovering above their home, where their mother was sleeping. The boy claims to have observed craft previously, and is always searching for them. Just before he entered his home, he looked up and was pointing at the craft. The older sister had always thought the younger brother was making up stories. She looked up to see what he was viewing and exclaimed, "Oh my God!" They could both see a UFO and an alien hovering above the house. The alien stared back at them scaring them, and they ran into the house yelling for their dad. They ran back out and although the alien was no longer discernible there was a UFO still hovering above the house. They yelled, "A space ship is above our house!" The mother tried to get up, but was very sleepy and had difficulty waking so she did not see the craft. When she completely awakened, the mother listened to the children's story and told each to go to their own room and draw exactly what they had observed. Both the children drew a picture of the alien and the UFO. The drawings by the two children matched in most details. Their home is located ten miles south of the Philadelphia Airport and aircraft often over fly their home but this night there was a low hanging cloud cover. Many other strange lights have been reported in recent weeks, that do not match the normal aircraft light patterns. In recent weeks craft have been observed on several occasions by neighbors and people living in the vicinity. The UFO was giant and was at least 200 to 300 feet in diameter. Little small craft were shooting out of it. Hundreds of smaller disc shaped objects came out of the craft at a high rate of speed. A women in the also neighborhood also saw the craft. The mother asked the neighbor what was that thing? The neighbor explained "I don't know, but I'm getting in the house." She was apparently afraid of the UFO and had seen something. There was also a groups of boys who also seemed to be looking toward the craft. They watched for 20 to 30 minutes. There was talk around the development about this thing in the sky. She has a large field beside her house. She has an expensive alarm system that regularly goes off. The police have come many times because of the alarm. Little kernels similar to rice was spread all over kitchen. About a year ago the police were called and found footprints the size of a child outside the house but nothing of value taken from the home. Raritan, Myth Roan reports she went out on Tuesday, May 28, 1998, to do some errands and was headed back home to relax. I was driving through part of Raritan from Princeton. While driving down one street through Raritan, just after crossing over Route 202, I started looking up at the sky. It was a crisp blue with some large and cottony clouds floating around, large and longish clouds. They weren't very tall, mostly flat with a few lumps and bumps. In no way did they look like storm clouds; the clouds were very white. As I looked at one almost directly in front of me, I saw a brilliant silver shape dart along straight into that cloud close to its left-hand end. The object was smallish and from what I saw seemed to be an orb. I remember thinking, Hmmm. Would a plane move like that? Would a plane look like that? I kept looking up at that particular cloud, as much as I could without driving off the road. Nothing happened for a bit. I never did see anything come back out of the cloud. I looked at the clock in the car. It was 12:34 p.m. As I drove closer to the back roads along the Duke Estate, I looked up again at one point, and saw a small Cessna-like plane moving along. It wasn't silvery at all, quite dark against the bright blue of the sky as a matter of fact. As it approached that same cloud, I saw another silver orb dart into the cloud close to its right-hand end. I think I had my first daylight UFO sighting! Thanks to Myth Roan and Bob Long. NORTH CAROLINA Stacey Buchanan reports seeing an oblong ovular object hovering about 100-150 feet off the ground. Sylva on May 9, 1998. It had what appeared to have a hole through the middle of it that was possibly arcing electricity across it. At 11:30 PM it took off slightly above the trees and with a flash of blue light. It took off from a slow start to instant high speeds. Thanks to ISUR Sighting Report. GEORGIA ISUR Sighting Report from John Thompson. 7/78, 9:00 p.m. E.T. states, "I was cleaning our pool during a warm summer Friday and saw a white, luminous object over my house. I had the pool lights on so at first I thought it was light reflection. Then I noticed motion. I ran to the back door to tell my family to come and see it. My wife came out in time to see the UFO that was right above us. It had a metallic body and a diameter of some 75 feet. We could see a front window like a cabin area, but the glass angled outwards and upwards. It had portholes on its sides. Light emanated from the front window in an orange, blue tone. The object made no noise at all. It moved at 20 MPH, but angled down at a 45 degree angle as it was looking at us all while at the same moving very slow. The top was smooth but had a dome. It was almost no different from a picture you see on television or movies except the frontside (where we saw light inside) had angled and curved sides around the front window. I can remember thing, what a beautiful craft it was. It then continued on a southeast direction. The whole episode had lasted approximately 60-90 seconds. I climbed a wall to continue seeing, since houses were now beginning to block the view. I saw it continue to move in a straight line. The altitude we saw it was no more than 100 feet. It seemed to stay at that altitude as it continued to move until I could no longer see it. I told my wife not to discuss it but to go inside the house and draw what she saw as I would then we could discuss it. We did and there was no disagreement. My background is group propulsion systems and working for a computer company most of my life. I think I saw beings wearing dark clothing that seemed to be looking at us. We can never forget the experience. We saw details being closer than most observers. Thanks to John Thompson/ISUR Sighting and mail@home.com FLORIDA Tonight at 8:52 PM, May 12, 1998, Judy and I had a sighting at Shoreline Park South in Gulf Breeze, Florida. The object was a little bigger than the street lights on the toll bridge, south east moving to the north. It was an orangish-red amber in color. First time the light popped in was between the Holiday Inn on the Beach and the Comfort Inn. Elevation was between 10 and 15 degrees. The light went out and returned three times to the right of the Comfort Inn and twice to the left of the Comfort Inn. The object (light) was visible from one to three seconds during each interval of visibility. Total time of the multiple sightings was less than two minutes. No sound was heard during the sightings. In addition to myself, (Pat Gerbig), Judy Francoeur was also present with me. At a table farther down from where we were located were also three other witnesses. Thanks to Pat Gerbig. COLORADO Marcia King writes: "I've been reading your postings on the MUFON page. My husband and daughter saw something in Colorado, last summer. It could only be a UFO. I'm truly a believer and have been for a couple years. I have a friend who is graduating as an anthropologist who strongly is suspicious that alien involvement is responsible for the sudden jump in progress of "human development." I've read some other books (Zecharia Sitchin) which are so carefully researched, I don't see how they can be ignored. I have a child with a congenital difference caused by a supposed "spontaneous genetic alteration" Yet I find it difficult to believe that this condition that results in the change of one letter in the sequence of billions in the gene sequence, could happen repeatedly at the rate of 1:20,000 merely by spontaneous, random chance. There are other characteristics occurring with this condition that I'm suspicious occur at a higher incidence than would otherwise if it were all merely random. (higher intelligence as one). How many astronomers, geneticists, anthropologists, physicists are seriously considering this universal solution to all the questions they face? I would love to find other professionals that share these beliefs. Thanks to Marcia King king@netonecom.net CALIFORNIA MYSTERIOUS GREEN LIGHTS On Monday, May 4, 1998, around 11:30 p.m., residents of Half Moon Bay and El Granada, California spotted three mysterious green lights hovering just offshore. Half Moon Bay (population 8,886) and El Granada (population 4,426) are on Highway 1 about 60 miles (96 kilometers) south of San Francisco. Reports were also received from two or three residents living on Skyline Boulevard, north of Redwood City. According to Larry Hatch, "observers" on a tugboat in Half Moon Bay "also saw the lights for 30 minutes. The tugboat operator described them as green 'stoplights' or traffic lights. He also said they were arranged in a straight vertical row. Many thanks to Larry Hatch and Errol Bruce-Knapp and UFO Roundup Vol. 3, #19, May 10, 1998 Editor: Joseph Trainor OREGON UFO On Friday, May 1, 1998, at 4:21 p.m., Wayne R. of Harper, sighted "a 4-to-8 foot round UFO moving through the sky" southeast of Vale. This town is located about 50 miles west of Boise, Idaho. Wayne described the UFO as "light tan with spots or markings, no lights." He added that what caught his attention was its unusual movement. "It flew at about a 30-degree angle from behind a ridge 80 feet above the ground, stopped, moved up and down rapidly, and then flew away at a very high rate of speed." No smoke or trail was visible during Wayne's four-second sighting. Many thanks to Tim Hagemeister of NACOMM NEW MEXICO On Sunday, May 3, 1998, a cow was found dead and mutilated in a remote mountain pasture 10 miles (16 kilometers) southeast of Questa, New Mexico (population 1,707). The cow, "which had been dead for about a day...was missing its eye and its tongue and suffered massive hemorrhaging, investigators say." John Paternoster, district attorney for Taos, NM, said authorities would investigate the case as a cattle mutilation--"one of a series of unexplained animal deaths in New Mexico in the past 25 years." "Samples of the cow's tissue, blood and organs will be analyzed at an Albuquerque laboratory, he said." "'No apparent cause of death was immediately visible,' Paternoster said, 'I'm not certain what we're looking for, but we have since the beginning been taking these deaths seriously.'" "A team of law enforcement officers" visited the crime scene in the Moreno Valley, "along with Gabe Valdez, an agent for the National Institute of Discovery Science, a privately-funded Las Vegas, Nev. organization that investigates paranormal phenomena." See the Albuquerque, NM Journal for 5/4/98. Thanks to Bruce-Knapp, UFO Roundup Vol. 3, #19, 5/10/98 Joseph Trainor. ALASKA Aaron Kristofer Asbury, Esquire reports about an incident in Denali National Park , Denali on June 21, 1997. At 12:00 AM I awoke because of a low tone vibration outside the cabin. I went outside to see what was going on, then a bright pulsating object came closer to me until I fell over thinking it would hit me. From far away it looked like an enormous metallic football, but changed shape to a small ball as it came to me, after that it slowly disappeared. I went back in the cabin to see that it was around 5:40 a.m., I didn't mind and went to bed. My brother woke me up at around 4:00 p.m., wondering why I was screaming in my sleep. I still thought it was the morning, and still do not understand that night. I get bits of memory from it back, but the feelings I feel are of both hatred and love. I remember, a being that looked like a small hairless primate. He told me he needed to learn why we were so careless? I didn't understand. Thanks to ISUR 907-696-5127, 19744 N. Montague, Eagle River, Alaska 99577 UFO VIDEOTAPED HOVERING OVER A BEACH IN BRAZIL March 28, 1998, hundreds of people relaxing on the beach at Praia do Jose Menino in the seaport city of Santos were startled when an OVNI (Portuguese acronym for UFO) suddenly appeared offshore. Santos is in southern Brazil, about 120 kilometers (72 miles) southeast of Sao Paulo. As the UFO hovered over Ilha da Urubuquecaba, an offshore island, Valentim do Nascimento picked up his video-camera and began shooting footage. The UFO was described as a disc-shaped object that hovered with a yellow, green and blue luminosity. Nascimento videotaped the UFO for 40 minutes as the beach goers watched it hover. Then, the light flickering strangely, the UFO zipped away. (See the Brazilian newspaper Gazeta de Limeira for March 30, 1998, Muito obrigado a Pedro Cunha por eso caso). AUSTRALIA Last week, I ran a story concerning illuminations in the sky and I apologize for not giving Harry proper credit for his fine work. He wrote: "On October 11, 1997, several million Australians observed extremely bright fluorescent lime green illumination across the skies. These illuminations have been observed in other parts of the world such as Mexico and the United States. Ross Dowe National UFO Hotline in Melbourne received well over 1000 telephone calls from Australian residents of the eastern states of New South Wales and Queensland, etc. (See Files #18) Harry Mason also writes. "Perhaps you could also pass on the dialogue with your scientist friend who reckons these lights were due to plasmas nucleating on upper atmospheric particles - I sincerely doubt this explanation giving the huge energies involved as per the eyewitness interviews. Also you took this section out of context re my contention of it's relation to similar timed events in the USA in Mexico and Texas and in both the Australian and USA events you would be unlikely to get agreement from eyewitnesses on your scientist's viewpoint." Thanks to Harry Mason for the Australia article. MISSILE DEFENSE The South Jersey Courier Post reported: Despite test failure, Pentagon supports missile defense plan. Disappointed but pushing ahead, the Pentagon has no thoughts of backing off its $15 billion missile defense system after it failed for a fifth straight time to intercept a test target. "We will continue to test the system until we get it right," said DOD spokesman Ken Bacon. The missile-defense system failed for the fifth time to hit a target when a booster rocket misfired in a New Mexico test. The Pentagon said it isn't ready yet to cancel the $15 billion Lockheed Martin project, which is called Theater High-Altitude Area Defense. It is being developed to protect troops in the field from attack by Scud and other short and medium range missiles. Please send your reports and comments to George Filer at Majorstar@aol.com.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 [bwwma] BWW Media Alert 19980516 From: BufoCalvin <BufoCalvin@aol.com> Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 09:25:09 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 10:23:49 -0400 Subject: [bwwma] BWW Media Alert 19980516 Bufo Calvin P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com Website: <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin">http://members.aol.com/bufo calvin<;/a> <A HREF = "surprise link to Amazon.com">http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0 486230945/bufosweirdworldA/<;/a> ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that attribution is made to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with strangers before you e-mail them something. If you forward this, please make sure it is clear that you are forwarding it). May 16, 1998 This is the slowest week I've seen in some time. Times are generally Pacific unless stated otherwise. TELEVISION NBC Sunday, May 17, 7:00 PM, UNMASKED! REVEALING THE SECRETS OF DECEPTION (they include psychic healers) THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL Saturday, May 16, 5:00 PM, UFOS DOWN TO EARTH: REASON TO BELIEVE Sunday, May 17, 1:00 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: MISSING APEMEN (yeti) Sunday, May 17, 1:30 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: SPONTANEOUS HUMAN COMBUSTION Sunday, May 17, 2:30 PM, ANIMAL X: SUPERSTIONS (includes the Loch Ness Monster, Bigfoot) THE SCI-FI CHANNEL Continues to typically run SIGHTINGS reruns on Sundays at 7:00 PM and weekdays at 5:00 PM and 9:00 PM. Not on the schedule this Friday (May 22), though, and it doesn't appear to be a pre-empt. THE SCIENCE CHANNEL This is affiliated with THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL. Unfortunately, their site is a bit confusing (at least to me) as to what days things are running. I believe this is this week's schedule: 6:00 AM, (Monday through Friday? Every day?) INTO THE UNKNOWN (generally cryptozoology) 6:30 AM, (Monday through Friday? Every day?), STRANGE BUT TRUE (variety of often paranormal topics) 2:00 PM, (Monday through Friday? Every day?) INTO THE UNKNOWN (generally cryptozoology) 2:30 PM, (Monday through Friday? Every day?), STRANGE BUT TRUE (variety of often paranormal topics) 10:00 PM, (Monday through Friday? Every day?) INTO THE UNKNOWN (generally cryptozoology) 10:30 PM, (Monday through Friday? Every day?), STRANGE BUT TRUE (variety of often paranormal topics) Week 2 Monday (airdates: 5/11, 5/25, 6/8, 6/22, 7/6, 7/20, 8/3, 8/17, 8/31, 9/14) Tuesday (airdates: 5/12, 5/26, 6/9, 6/23, 7/7, 7/21, 8/4, 8/18, 9/1, 9/15) Wednesday (airdates: 5/13, 5/27, 6/10, 6/24, 7/8, 7/22, 8/5, 8/19, 9/2, 9/16) Thursday (airdates: 5/14, 5/28, 6/11, 6/25, 7/9, 7/23, 8/6, 8/20, 9/3, 9/17) Friday (airdates: 5/15, 5/29, 6/12, 6/26, 7/10, 7/24, 8/7, 8/21, 9/4, 9/18) Saturday (airdates: 5/16, 5/30, 6/13, 6/27, 7/11, 7/25, 8/8, 8/22, 9/5, 9/19) Sunday (airdates: 5/17, 5/31, 6/14, 6/28, 7/12, 7/26, 8/9, 8/23, 9/6, 9/20) SYNDICATED Friday, May 22, MAURY POVICH (psychic hot-lines) New York Area BEYOND THE UNEXPLAINED Monday, May 18, 10:00 AM, RIVERHEAD channel 27: Long Island MUFON and an exclusive Gulf Breeze UFO video Thursday, May 21, 10:00 AM, LTV EASTHAMPTON channel 27: interview with David Jacobs, author of THE THREAT ( <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0684814846/bufosweirdworldA/"> The Threat : The Secret Alien Agenda</A> ) Friday, May 22, 7:00 PM (?), CABLEVISION OF BROOKHAVEN channel 99: Maria Cuccia, abductee and composer. ___________________________ This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, t he week before. _____________________________ **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. For more information on OPUS, see its we bsite at http://members.aol.com/josephxx3
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Nua Blather: UFOs and Humptydoo From: Dave Walsh <dave@nua.ie> Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 17:46:55 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 10:10:22 -0400 Subject: Nua Blather: UFOs and Humptydoo ******************************************************************* NUA BLATHER NUA BLATHER NUA BLATHER Weekly free email of Dogma Destruction, Forteana and High Weirdness By Daev Walsh Email: blather@nua.ie Web: http://www.nua.ie/blather/ ******************************************************************* May 15 1998 Published By: Nua Limited Vol 2. No. 1 ******************************************************************* [Blather would like to take this opportunity to wish itself happy birthday - we've now been delivering our weekly missive for an entire year.] UFOS AND HUMPTYDOO IRISH UFO After what seems to have been a lull, a new Irish UFO report has come to our attention, this time in Blanchardstown, Dublin. Blather would have reported this much earlier, but a) there was no real hurry, and b) we were far too busy regaling you with tales of the UnCon. The reports state that on April 2, 1998 at around 5pm, a certain David Martin was perambulating towards *The Bell* public house, when he saw "an object flash across the sky. It stopped and hovered over my head. It seemed circular in shape. It flew off to the east in the direction of Raheny". According to one report, the object was red. While a 'typical' sort of report, Blanchardstown is a well populated suburban area in North West Dublin, and I've yet to hear any more reports of UFOs in broad daylight there. . . Blather shall look into it. It's perhaps worth bearing in mind that if the report had been from April 1, it would have been far easier to dismiss it as a hoax. Sources: UFO Roundup Volume 3, Number 17 April 26, 1998 http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/v03/rnd03_17.html Filer's Files #15 for 1998 http://ufoinfo.com/filer/1998/ff_1598.html#6 MEDIAWATCH DOES HUMPTYDOO [In response to Blather 1.50 (http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/issue1no50.html), where Cheyne D. Conrad presented his opinions regarding poltergeist reports from the town of Humptydoo (near Darwin, Australia), Peter Darben (http://www.thehub.com.au/~wormman/wlcont.htm) now counters with a rather different opinion - Blather] An interesting bit of information has arisen regarding the Humpty Doo polt case, so recently covered here in our brown land. Guardian of media integrity that it is, the ABC TV program MediaWatch (http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch) has turned its attentions to the activities of the crew who brought us this interesting case. For those not familiar with MediaWatch, it is a weekly 15-20 minute program which monitors the morality and activities of our media providers. They do this in a reasonably entertaining fashion, although all of their features are backed up with copious research, documents and other evidence. In the past they have exposed "Mr Australia", Ray Martin (host of the flagship of tabloid television, A Current Affair) as being less than charitable in his treatment of unemployed folk and Vietnamese immigrants, among many others, as well as trying to get to the bottom of why Brisbane's own Courier Mail newspaper seems to have a personal vendetta against historian Manning Clark. Naturally, being broadcast on publicly owned television, they cop a bit of flack for "victimising" commercial media outlets, a practice which isn't really hard to do when all of the country's media rests in the hands of two people. However, MediaWatch's integrity has stood the test of many threatened libel suits. MediaWatch's coverage (screened 4.5.98) began with a little bit of information not circulated to most of the general public or news services. The program which broke the Humpty Doo Polt story, Network 7's Today Tonight, was just starting its first broadcasts in the Darwin region. Today Tonight is a 30 minute "current affairs" program broadcast nationally to all affiliates, which tries, but just falls short of out-tabloiding A Current Affair. MediaWatch made this connection, pointing out that there was few better ways to get a bit of publicity in new territory, than to add a bit of local flavour. In other words, the rest of Australia, let alone the rest of the world, might never have even caught hold of this story, if Network 7 hadn't used it to scratch up a few ratings. The program aired stories and updates for a total of 5 days, sending a journalist and camera crew to see if they could catch any of the activity on film. In the words of the journalist responsible, in that entire time, their cameras caught only one incident which suggested polt activity, a shot that MW dutifully replayed in all its chilling glory. The piece of footage shows a camera near floor level looking towards a large living room area. A pair of legs walk in front of the camera, and suddenly, an egg beater flies from the direction of the pair of legs and crashes against a wall. Hardly convincing stuff. They also showed the footage (taken by an independent camera operator) that Mr Cheyne described in his contribution, which one of the inhabitants has admitted to having faked, so that people would believe them (leading contender for Bizarre Logic of the Year Award, that one). I must admit that I couldn't see the face in the glass panel, but those magic eye things don't work for me either. The point is moot, now that they've admitted to having faked that particular episode. By far, the most telling piece of footage for me was the one in which they interviewed the inhabitants about an exorcist they brought in (evidently not the Father Tom English who has been reported in all the media coverage). One inhabitant struggled in vain to keep a straight face to tell the tale of an "exorcist . . . or some priest fella" who raced from the house screaming after a particularly nasty event - "He went back to Greece . . . or Rome or whatever. He wasn't coming back again." At this point the strain of the haunting obviously became too much and he collapsed in laughter, with his mates snickering in the background. An unnamed priest, of unknown religious beliefs, possibly from Greece or Rome (or "whatever") going somewhere he can't be traced to ? Ahhh, sounds like bullshit, Barry. So we have one admitted faked activity, one entirely unconvincing apparition and one probable tall story, all set against a background of a tabloid television program trying to wring a story out of the $2000 they paid to these folks. Not exactly the makings for an earth-shattering polt case. Mr Cheyne has mentioned all manner of other activity and footage (including thermal analysis) which was reported in the house. Unfortunately, there is very little independent evidence to back up the claims (the "independent" film crew were the ones who caught the face in the glass). We have lots of eyewitness accounts, and a priest who gives ambiguous answers on and off camera - I'm not sure where Father English got his stats that these things happen more in non-Christian countries. The evidence that MW presented was in no way a thorough debunking, and I agree with Mr Cheyne that the naive admission of fraud has had the effect of discouraging any further investigation of the entire phenomenon, although less than the fact that Today Tonight no longer needs the ratings. However, it does provide evidence that a motive was there to beat up the whole thing. A television program previously shown to have questionable ethics with a wide open cheque-book who needed a story to get it a toe-hold in new territory. It also showed that the folks involved, rather than being terrified by the whole endeavour took the event as a bit of a joke. If I could add a last note, in his update Mr Cheyne reports that the folk had moved out of the house to escape the phenomena, according to Today Tonight's story). MW treated this a little differently, stating that they had been evicted after the land owner had gotten a touch sick and tired of things breaking around them. No word as to whether the new tenants had reported any projectile mercurochrome bottles. MAGONIA ETH BULLETIN This newsletter on the *extraterrestrial hypothesis*, edited by John Harney, is available at http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/ethbull/ethbull3.html and contains a fine essay titled 'Off the Wall, Through the Wall and Up the Wall: the Abduction Researchers', featuring the tinplate toils of David Jacobs and Budd Hopkins. AURORA MARKER PROJECT Forget Roswell - must of the 'Saucerheads' [(c) Bruce Lanier Wright] aren't aware of the 'mystery airships' of 1897 - FringeWare Inc. (http://www.fringeware.com), with which Blather is proud to be heavily associated, has embarked on a project to put right what is wrong in a certain north Texas cemetery, where an alleged extraterrestrial was buried, following an airship crash in 1897. Jeff Gorvetzian's article from FringeWare Review #13, 'Aurora's Harbinger', tells the tale of how the good folk of Aurora, Texas, saw fit to give a good Christian burial to a being who was 'not an inhabitant this world', according to a correspondent of the Dallas Morning News, a certain SE Heydon, on April 19, 1897. To quote Jeff's article; 'Here we pass over neatly to myth. The pilot's body was interred under a gnarled old oak on the cemetery's south side, with a single stone bearing a hieroglyphic inscription from the ship to mark the grave. Though many later said Heydon had fabricated the story to drum up interest in Aurora, there was no further news from the city. Neither the crash nor the gravesite was the subject of publicity. The stone, the town, and the pilot (if there had ever been one) all slept in silence for almost seventy years, exactly as villages in fairy tales are said to do.' Jump to the 1970s, when some gutless little filcher made off with the headstone. To help repair this wrong, FringeWare has commissioned a replacement marker, to be designed by Austin artist Steve Brudniak, and placed *outside* the cemetery, in the city of Aurora, Texas. Read more about it, and lend your support: http://www.fringeware.com/aurora/ Aurora's Harbinger by Jeff Gorvetzian http://www.fringeware.com/fwr/fwr13-10.html Steve Brudniak http://austin360.com/features/gallery/brudniak.htm The Aero Club of California, Mystery Airships and more. . . http://www.newphys.se/elektromagnum/physics/KeelyNet/gravity/ Dave (daev) Walsh May 15 1998 Feedback and comments to <blather@nua.ie> Have your say: http://www.nua.ie/blather/blabber ******************************************************************* NUA INTERNET SURVEYS A weekly newsletter, Internet Surveys is a free digest of the most interesting surveys containing data relating to the Internet. It is available by sending an email to <surveys-request@lists.best.com> with the word "subscribe" in the body of the message. NUA WHAT'S NEW A monthly newsletter, What's New is a free monthly newsletter highlighting the new additions, happenings and changes at Nua. It is available by sending an email to <whatsnew-requestlists.best.com> with the word "subscribe" in the body of the message. NUA NEW THINKING New Thinking is a free, weekly, 500-word email column, whose objective is to contribute to a practical philosophy for The Digital Age. It is available by sending an email to <newthinking-request@lists.best.com> with the word "subscribe" in the body of the message. ******************************************************************* SPONSORSHIP: While Blather will always remain free to the subscriber, Nua is always willing to talk to interested parties with regard to sponsorship. Contact Daev Walsh: <daev@nua.ie> ******************************************************************* Blather archives, please go to: http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/index.html ******************************************************************* LITERATURE ON LOCAL IRELAND - http://local.ie/culture/literature/ ******************************************************************* Literature on Local Ireland provides current literary news, databases of Irish writers from 500 CE to the present, directories of Publishers and Agents and huge scope for interaction. The Events Guide is a major feature and is constantly updated. This website is intended to provide a forum for all those interested in Irish literature and involvement on all levels is invited from writers, institutions and educational establishments. http://local.ie/culture/literature/ A Free weekly electronic newsletter, Local Litir, gives news and updates on literary events. To subscribe send an email to: mailto:majordomo@local.ie with the word "subscribe" in the body of the message. A Writer of the Month newsletter will also be available, giving biographical details of an Irish writer, with a list of their works and links to relevant websites. Check out this months flavour, Oscar Wilde: http://local.ie/culture/literature/writer_of_month/oscar_wilde.shtml ******************************************************************* NUA MISSION STATEMENT ******************************************************************* To excel in the establishment and development of online relationships and brands. For further information on how Nua can help your organisation get the best out of the Internet, contact our marketing director, Mary Gorman <mary@nua.ie> or our representative in New York, Niall Swan <nswan@nua.ie> Mary Gorman: mailto:mary@nua.ie Niall Swan: mailto:nswan@nua.ie ******************************************************************* NUA LIMITED Nua, a vibrant, innovative, Irish company whose focus is in helping progressive organisations adapt to the new environment created by the Internet. We have the management/marketing, design and technical skills to truly understand your unique situation, and to translate that understanding into a successful Internet presence for you. Nua has received an array of awards since its genesis in 1996. Among those are the coveted "Best Overall World Wide Web Business Achievement" the top prize for website development in Europe. http://www.nua.ie/about/review.html SUBSCRIBING TO BLATHER Send an email to: <blather-request@lists.best.com> with the word subscribe in the body of the message. An automatic acknowledgement should be returned to you by e-mail within a few minutes. UNSUBSCRIBING Send an email to <blather-request@lists.best.com> with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. TECHNICAL PROBLEMS If you are having any technical problems, please email the Nua Webmaster at: <web@nua.ie>. ******************************************************************* ____________________________________________________________________ NUA : Internet Consultancy & Developer http://www.nua.ie/ Dave Walsh <daev@nua.ie> Tel: +353-1-676-8996 Fax: +353-1-661-3932 Read Blather: http://www.nua.ie/blather - weekly weirdness by email
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 SETI League Considers Interstellar Visitation From: SKvs <bradford@globalserve.net> [Sue Kovios] Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 10:22:05 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 11:41:37 -0400 Subject: SETI League Considers Interstellar Visitation ----- Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 10:31:08 +0200 To: cydonia@majordomo.pobox.com From: JJ Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.net> Subject: [M-TRAC - MSAA] SETI league considers interstellar visitation (forwarded with permission from CNI News) SETI LEAGUE CONSIDERS INTERSTELLAR VISITATION A Radical Departure From Previous SETI Position In an editorial posted to the website of the SETI League, (see http://www.setileague.org/editor/travel.htm) Dr. Peter Schenkel proposes that SETI, the scientific search for extraterrestrial intelligence, should pay heed to changing views among physicists and space propulsion experts and consider the possibility that some advanced ET races might achieve faster-than-light travel, thus enabling them to visit the earth. This represents a dramatic contrast to official SETI orthodoxy, which holds that interstellar travel is by definition impossible, as is ET visitation. It should be noted that Dr. Schenkel is offering only his own opinion, not rewriting SETI dogma. Still, inasmuch as the SETI League, a respected international association of professional and amateur astronomers, is featuring Dr. Schenkel's views in their guest editorial of the month, it does seem that a shift is in the wind. The SETI League maintains close ties with the better known SETI Institute, but is a separate organization. CNI News is not aware that the SETI Institute has responded to the SETI League's posting. Excerpts from Dr. Schenkel's editorial follow: Should SETI Protocols Consider Interstellar Travel? by Dr. Peter Schenkel (schenkel@ecnet.ec) The question is far less academic than it may appear. It has been argued that because of energy requirements, interstellar travel is "Impossible." Also for other intelligences. But most space propulsion specialists disagree. According to a preliminary CIESPAL survey, 80 percent of those interviewed feel confident that we will reach low c velocities in less than two centuries. NASA director Dan Goldin spoke of plans to send a craft to Alpha Centauri in 20 to 25 years. Therefore, to think that civilizations thousands or millions of years more advanced technologically and scientifically than we would not have a spacefaring capability seems extremely farfetched, to put it mildly. Both Carl Sagan and Arthur C. Clarke have emphatically advocated a much more optimistic view. If we have reason to believe that much older intelligences abound in the universe, then we must admit that the probability that such aliens might send spaceships or automatic probes to explore the Galaxy and stray upon our expanding electromagnetic wavefront is neither greater nor smaller than the chance to find "the needle in the haystack" via radioastronomy. Contact could occur either way. [T]he possibility should not be ruled out that an alien craft or probe may enter our solar system and attempt an encounter with us. Since the impact and consequences of this contact scenario would be incomparably greater than [radio contact], ...mankind should be prepared politically, legally, communicationally and psychologically for all contact scenarios, not just for one. -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o- Mars Surface Anomaly Analysis Possible artifacts on Mars http://www.mufor.org/ares/ The M-TRAC Project A private, unmanned mission to Mars http://www.mufor.org/mtrac/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Re: Ray Santilli V Bob Kiviat From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 03:38:10 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 11:34:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Ray Santilli V Bob Kiviat > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Ray Santilli V Bob Kiviat > Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 16:05:43 -0400 > >From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com> > >Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 00:41:40 EDT > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Ray Santilli V Bob Kiviat > [...] > >Remember it has been Ray Santilli that has failed to provide > >proof of his claims. Ray who claimed that we was going to make a > >few frames of the film available to be sent to Kodak. Ray who > >has spun web after web until finally when you pressure Ray, he > >defaults to "Well Volker owns...blah blah. Then you call Volker > >and get no response. Its called the Ray Volker vicious circle of > >story telling. > Ray might well be in a catch 22 situation: > 1. I doubt one can copyright stolen classified material. And the > AA film, if authentic, would be just that. > 2. If the AA film is a copy of original footage (should the > original footage be stolen goods or not), I doubt you can get a > copyright on it either. Copyright implies: ownership and > intellectual property. You cannot copyright copies of someone > else's work. > 3. For Santilli to own a copyright on the AA film necessarily > implies that it is a work of creation from his part, on which he > can claim ownership. > 4. WHERE and HOW he got the copyright seem to be good questions. > 5. The next thing would to get a copy of the original legal > document which should hopefully be of public domain. > Anyone on the list could confirm these assertions or tell me how > naive I can be? > Serge Salvaille Dear Serge, Ray Santilli has copyrighted the film and I have a copy (some place) of the document from the USA confirming this. What this says about the authenticity of the film or not, I will leave others to decide. Philip Mantle.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 01 From: Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 17:43:46 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 11:29:27 -0400 Subject: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 01 from: http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/ethbull/ethbull1.html MAGONIA ETH Bulletin No. 1, March 1998 Editor: JOHN HARNEY EDITORIAL Magonia has become well known among many ufologists for its espousal of the psychosocial theory of UFOs. It is generally agreed that the vast majority of UFO reports can be explained as misidentifications of aircraft or natural phenomena. According to the psychosocial theory, all reports which cannot reasonably be explained in this way must have psychological explanations. These include optical illusions, delusions, hallucinations, dreams and fantasies, confabulations, lies, hoaxes, etc. However, there has been constant criticism from those who insist that some UFO reports indicate that the Earth is being visited by extraterrestrials, and that these reports are unfairly dismissed or distorted by proponents of the psychosocial theory. They are said to be indulging in armchair ufology or literary criticism Magonia ETH Bulletin has been initiated, as a supplementary publication to Magonia, in order to examine the evidence that ETH supporters apparently find so compelling. We hope to examine and re-examine interesting reports in the hope of eventually reaching a consensus among intelligent ufologists as to whether or not the ETH should be taken seriously. Articles or letters on this subject, whether opposing or supporting the ETH, are welcome. ---------------------------------------------------------------- THE ETH AND ITS PROPONENTS ETH and PSH Supporters of the ETH constantly assert that there is evidence in favour of it, and that it is much simpler and makes fewer assumptions than other theories which attempt to explain UFO reports. The only serious alternative to the ETH is the psychosocial hypothesis (PSH). What ETH supporters do not realise, however, is that even if a few UFO reports turned out to be genuine sightings of extraterrestrial space craft, then the PSH would still be valid, as it would still be the preferred explanation for the overwhelming majority of reports. More than one ETH The ETH does indeed seem simple at first glance. Just examine some of the most reliable and puzzling reports, obtain that elusive physical evidence, and become famous as the one who finally convinces the disbelieving scientific community that we really are being visited by ETs. In fact it is not so simple, as there is more than one ETH. The Greys described by the abductee enthusiasts such as Hopkins, Mack and Jacobs have amazing powers. These include selective invisibility and the ability to abduct people through solid walls. These Greys are not infallible; they sometimes get the abductees night clothes or underwear mixed up or return them to the garden instead of the bedroom. Somehow, though, nothing ever goes seriously wrong, so they never get caught. How fortunate they are compared with those other Greys - the ones who seem to have established, over the past 50 years, a special relationship with the almost omnipotent US Air Force. When they crash their saucers in the desert there are no back-up craft to rescue them, so survivors are forced to spend the rest of their miserable lives incarcerated at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. Even if they crash in another country thousands of miles from the USA they are still likely to end up there. For example, the aliens who crash-landed near Varginha, Brazil, were said to have been handed over to the USAF. Jerome Clark's support for the ETH In the USA, one of the leading ETH proponents is Jerome Clark. He sees possible evidence in reports involving alleged physical traces, radar-visual sightings and multi-witness reports. He is thus a nuts-and-bolts ETHer. In order to let the ETH breathe, it is necessary to free it from the all-embracing tentacles of the PSH. Clark does this by suggesting that PSH proponents are ignorant and prejudiced (in contrast with the brilliant scientists who support the ETH). For example, he writes: Criticisms of the ETH also came from supporters of the neoskeptical psychosocial hypothesis, which sought to explain close encounters as culturally shaped hallucinations and visionary experiences. Generally speaking, psychosocial theorists, who came mostly from liberal-arts backgrounds, had little interest in science as such and thus seldom employed scientifically based arguments like Hynek's. Nor did they much concern themselves with the hard evidence, such as that to be found in close encounters of the second kind, and they usually did not discriminate between outlandish claims and those others considered credible. Most seemed to believe the ETH to be inherently absurd and insisted that reported extraterrestrials were either too much or too little like us to merit credibility. (1) There is some truth in the allegation that many PSH supporters are disturbingly ignorant of basic science, but this hardly applies to the more prominent ones. Many people regard psychology and sociology as being only marginally scientific disciplines, in contrast with the hard sciences such as physics. It is thus easier for physical scientists to gain respect for their opinions, whether or not they are justified by the facts. Brain scanning However, recent advances in neurophysiology, and brain scanning and imaging are making it possible for people who claim strange experiences, such as close encounters, to be subjected to more rigorously scientific tests. The question as to whether or not UFO witnesses are fantasy-prone persons can be established objectively, rather than being decided merely by the subjective impressions of psychologists. A team of researchers in Canada, led by Henry Szechtman of McMaster University in Hamilton, hypnotised 14 male volunteers, knowing that some were prone to hallucinations and others not. Their brains were scanned while they performed three tasks: listening as a taped message was played, imagining it being played, and listening as though it were being played. In the last task those subject to hallucinations reported hearing the message. This task activated a spot in their brains' anterior cingulate. Szechtman believes that this region allocates an external tag to internal thoughts, making them seem real. (2) The implications of this and similar experiments are obvious to serious investigators of close encounters, abductions, and alleged paranormal experiences. Hard evidence PSH proponents do not concern themselves with hard evidence . What hard evidence? In 50 years of ufology none has yet come to hand. All we ever get are holes in the ground, bits of slag and fuzzy photographs. Some of the so-called scientific investigations of such evidence have been pathetically inadequate or incompetent, as has been devastatingly revealed by serious UFO researchers such as Maillot (3) and Simpson. (4) As for distinguishing between outlandish claims and those others considered credible, what are the criteria to be used in making such distinctions? In practice, the classification of such reports depends on the personal preferences of the ufologists. For example, many American ufologists prefer the crash-retrieval stories. When challenged concerning the complete absence of any evidence to support them, apart from often contradictory accounts by alleged witnesses, they can say that the incidents took place either a long time ago, or in some remote place where they don't speak American, and that the US Air Force has removed all the physical evidence. Others put their faith in radar-visual sightings which, if taken at face value, seem to indicate the operation of craft whose performance vastly exceeds that of any earthly machines. Experts on aviation and radar should be warned that such folk do not take kindly to complicated, boring and irritatingly rational explanations of such incidents. The ETH in Britain In Britain there is less enthusiasm for the ETH among ufologists, but those people who like to read UFO books are quite keen on it, judging by the sales figures for British ETH enthusiasts such as Timothy Good and Nick Pope. This is not because British ufologists are saner than American ones, it is because they are more keen on barmy occult speculations, earth energies, imaginary secret aircraft, etc. One very prolific British UFO writer who manages to upset many of these folk is Jenny Randles. She is also not rich because she often fails to tell the punters what they want to hear. They are particularly unhappy about a certain basic law of ufology which she has derived from her extensive readings and investigations. This law states: The more witnesses there are, the less likely it's really a UFO. (5) The Oz Factor The importance of the law derived by Jenny Randles cannot be overestimated. It could provide the key to the whole UFO mystery. Randles has pointed out that the experience of having a close encounter with a UFO is quite different from that of viewing some unusual phenomenon together with many other witnesses. The Oz Factor appears to be an altered state of consciousness experienced by witnesses to the more bizarre UFO experiences. For example, some people report seeing a UFO while walking along a busy street or driving on a busy road, but when the UFO is seen everything seems to go quiet and cars and pedestrians seem to have vanished. At the end of the experience everything returns to normal. Investigators find that nobody else in the vicinity at the time had noticed anything unusual. Such observations point inevitably to a psychological explanation, and the details of such experiences suggest a social explanation. We are thus now closer to knowing what to look for when seeking UFO reports that tend to lend support to the ETH. They must be multiple witness reports, preferably backed by some form of physical evidence. There should be no serious doubt that the reported events actually took place. The only arguments should concern the matter of the correct explanation, based on agreed evidence and testimony. ---------------------------------------------------------------- TRINIDADE ISLAND The Trinidade Island sighting of 16 January 1958 should provide a good case for consideration by ETH proponents. Four reasonably good photographs of a mysterious Saturn-shaped flying object taken from the deck of the Brazilian Navy vessel Almirante Saldanha and plenty of witnesses. Jerome Clark's verdict on it is: Given the number of witnesses, the results of photoanalyses both military and civilian, and the need for debunkers to reinvent the incident to explain it, it seems most unlikely that the Trinidade photographs were hoaxed. (6) Well, what are the agreed facts of this case? I was astonished to discover, on re-examining the literature on this incident that some of the most basic and presumably easily ascertainable facts are very much in dispute. For example, how many witnesses were there? Well, it depends on whether you are a believer or a sceptic. And if you are a sceptic it depends whether you believe the photographs were faked or that they are genuine and that they portray an aircraft or some natural phenomenon. Dr Menzel originally thought the photographs showed an aircraft flying through cloud, but eventually claimed that they were faked. Believers conveniently fail to mention something about the photographer that the sceptics gleefully emphasise: he was well known for his trick photography. I wonder why? Now we come to the really crazy bit. When we ask the obvious question: How many witnesses were there? - what is the answer? Again, it depends entirely on whether you are a believer or a sceptic. According to Coral Lorenzen: Rio de Janeiro's Ultima Hora on February 21 reported that at least a hundred individuals had witnessed the sighting of the object ... (7) The US Naval Attachi in Rio de Janeiro, evidently a dedicated sceptic, wrote in his report to Project Blue Book: The Assistant Naval Attachi ... had an opportunity to visit aboard [the Almirante Saldanha]. The commanding officer ... had not seen the object and was noncommittal. The executive officer also had not seen it but, arriving shortly thereafter, had formed the opinion that those on deck had seen it. The captain reported that his secretary, a LCDR, had seen it but this officer when personally questioned avoided discussing the matter. (8) Sceptics insist that there were no witnesses, despite assertions from believers that their testimonies were published in Brazilian newspapers. If there really were many witnesses, then the photographs are hardly likely to be fakes. If there were no witnesses, it is difficult to see how people could be fooled by a photographer who purported to take pictures of something which nobody else noticed from the crowded deck of a ship. Conclusions Most investigations of what seem like inexplicable UFO reports founder, either because the investigators have made up their minds before they start, or because there is really no substance to the reports anyway. Without reliable reports and unbiased investigations the outlook for the ETH remains bleak. References 1. Clark, Jerome. The UFO Book: Encyclopedia of the Extraterrestrial, Visible Ink, Detroit, 1998, 212 2. Scary Monsters, New Scientist, No. 2122, 21 February 1998, quoting Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Vol. 95, p. 1956 3. Maillot, Eric and Scornaux, Jacques. Trans-en-Provence: when science and belief go hand in hand, in Evans, Hilary and Stacy, Dennis (eds), UFOs 1947-1997, John Brown, London, 1997, 151-159 (A more detailed version is on the Magonia web site.) 4. Simpson, D.I. Experimental UFO Hoaxing, MUFOB, New Series 2, March 1976 (Available on the Magonia web site) 5. Randles, Jenny. A Few Home Truths, in Evans and Stacy, op. cit., 249 6. Clark, op. cit., 569 7. Lorenzen, Coral. Flying Saucers: The Startling Evidence of the Invasion from Outer Space, Signet, New York, 1966, 168 8. Hynek, J. Allen. The Hynek UFO Report, Sphere Books, London, 1978, 248 ---------------------------------------------------------------- PER ARDUA AD ASBESTOS What usually happens to people who publicly criticise the policies and activities of the private companies, local authorities or government departments which employ them? They get the sack, of course. Or at least they are subject to some form of disciplinary action. Not so UFO author, ETH believer and MoD civil servant Nick Pope. He has constantly criticised his department's insistence that the UFOs, whatever they might be, are fairly harmless. Now he has gone even further. In his column in the magazine Sightings (Volume 2, Issue 9, 1998) he writes: "Under British law, any UK citizen involved in a UFO cover-up might - if the extraterrestrials are committing hostile acts - be committing the offence of treason ... This leaves open the question of anyone involved in official UFO research who should have been aware of a threat, but failed to act because of their own ignorance or prejudice. If a hostile act then occurs, which could have been prevented had the person concerned taken the subject seriously, the person concerned might face a treason charge." I think most employees would not expect to get away with this sort of insinuation, but Pope appears to be fireproof. Why? What is going on? Could someone explain? ---------------------------------------------------------------- For readers who do not already subscribe to or exchange with our journal Magonia, full details may be obtained from the Editor: John Rimmer, John Dee Cottage, 5 James Terrace, Mortlake Churchyard, London SW14 8HB, UK. e-mail johnr@magonia.demon.co.uk ---------------------------------------------------------------- Please address all correspondence, articles, etc. to the Editor: John Harney, 27 Enid Wood House, High Street, Bracknell, Berkshire RG12 1LN (UK)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Re: UFO Security Classification Hearings From: "Stanton T. Friedman" <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 11:42:26 -0300 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 12:04:49 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Security Classification Hearings > Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:18:13 -0500 (CDT) > From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO Security Classification Hearings > One way Rep. Horn may have been duped was by terminology usage. > As we see from another posting (below) UFOs are not really called > "UFOs" by other agencies such as NORAD, who have concocted > alternate acronyms for them. Thus intelligence personnel could > "truthfully" say that "UFO" info is classified no higher than > SECRET, since higher classifications really apply to the > alternate acroynms. Perhaps a better way to approach this would > have been for Rep. Horn to first request a list of ALL current > equivalent military acronyms for UFOs, and then ask about the > classification levels of each of those. > The alternate military acronyms for "UFO" are mentioned in the > following post from Stig. Perhaps someone should pass this info > on to Rep. Horn ... > > From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 04:06:06 +0200 > > Subject: UFOs And The Governments Of The USA And UK > > Some unknown and interesting pieces of information from 'Lobster' > > # 32 December 1996. URL: > > http://www.knowledge.co.uk/xxx/lobster/articles/l32ufos.htm > > UFOs and the governments of the USA and UK > > by Armen Victorian > >From Lobster 32 <snip> > -Brian Cuthbertson As Karl Pflock and others have pointed out, TOP SECRET Code Word markings are part of the TOP SECRET Classification not" Higher".. just much more restrictive.The Ike Library for example has a drawerful of SCI material that cannot be viewed. There are actually very few formerly TOP SECRET (with or without a code word) UFO documents that have been released. The CIA, for example, included not even any TOP SECRET no less TOP SECRET -CODE WORD documents in their release of 900 p of UFO stuff to CAUS. In Their response to my request for copies of the 14 Classified UFO documents found by the NSA, but somehow not by the CIA, the CIA blacked out almost everything on the little they released including all security markings. The question is where are the rest of the CIA TS UFO documents or event the 14 they refused to release in the late 1980s? The distinction between SECRET and TOP SECRET is not a trivial one. I understand Horn is from Long Beach California.. Maybe his constituents can ask some questions. STF
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 03 From: Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 17:44:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 11:30:46 -0400 Subject: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 03 from: http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/ethbull/ethbull3.html MAGONIA ETH Bulletin No. 3, May 1998 Editor: JOHN HARNEY EDITORIAL Evidence to support the ETH is so thin on the ground that we are already scraping around for something worth printing in this bulletin. Yet in the USA it is taken for granted that it is the most sensible hypothesis for explaining puzzling - and many not so puzzling - UFO reports. The lack of physical evidence does not discourage the ETHers. They can easily mould official documentation and witness statements into ETH-shapes to keep the believers happy. OFF THE WALL, THROUGH THE WALL AND UP THE WALL: THE ABDUCTION RESEARCHERS Standardised, nuts-and-bolts aliens If the ETH is to be taken seriously then its proponents should be able to produce serious evidence to support it. Most abduction researchers seem to favour paranormal theories to account for the experiences they describe. As the paranormal hypothesis can explain everything it explains nothing, as anything mildly puzzling can be described in this way, thus relieving one of the necessity for any further thought or investigation. In other words, it is merely a form of intellectual laziness. Some abduction researchers, though, have no time for the paranormal: they are nuts-and-bolts men. One of them in particular, David Jacobs, is now convinced that he has the explanation for the strange activities of the alien abductors. They are breeding human-alien hybrids who are being prepared to take over the world. This could happen very soon. (1) David Jacobs and Budd Hopkins have become notorious for their work on producing a standard version of the abduction experience. They also insist that abduction experiences which conform to the standard pattern are objectively real events and that the aliens are physically real creatures. Through the walls However, if they are physical beings then they should not be able to ignore the laws of physics, as we do routinely in our dreams. In a dream, walking through solid walls often presents no great difficulty, whereas in waking reality, common sense, common experience and the laws of physics tell us that this is impossible. It is important to emphasise here that when abduction researchers such as Jacobs and Hopkins talk about people being taken from their beds or their cars into UFOs, they are not talking about the out-of-the-body experience (or astral projection, as occultists call it) but a physical transfer of the abductee from bedroom to UFO, passing through any intervening physical barriers as easily as one walks through a patch of fog. They can't be framed They get quite upset when people refuse to believe this, so Jacobs has tried to do something to resolve the matter, with rather amusing results. As many people are, allegedly, frequently abducted from their bedrooms he decided to make use of video cameras to try to catch" the aliens in the act. (2) The abductee, Melissa Bucknell, slept with a video camera connected to a VCR pointed at her bed. There were no abductions for several nights until one morning when she slept late and she was abducted after the tape ran out! On another occasion she slept on the living room couch to get away from the noise of her neighbours arguing upstairs - and was again abducted. The video camera was tried with other abductees and, if you haven't already guessed, they were never abducted when sleeping within the field of view of a working video camera. They claimed to be abducted when they slept elsewhere or when there was a power failure, or when the camera developed a fault. One abductee felt the urge at 5.30 a.m. to get out of bed and turn off the camera. She remembered seeing Small Beings who were standing just outside of camera range directing her to do it. (3) In Britain, Christopher Kenworthy and his fellow researchers have tried a similar experiment. Some of the subjects remembered being abducted, but when the tapes were played back they were seen to have been in bed all the time. However, on two separate nights which tally with their abduction memories, two of our experimenters were seen getting up and leaving the bedroom. In both cases they look asleep as they walk. In both cases they are missing for exactly three hours and 27 minutes. And then, still asleep, they walk back in and climb into bed. (4) Now, these experiments no doubt provide plenty of useful material for psychologists, but they tell us nothing about aliens. The failure to obtain physical evidence to support abduction stories leaves Jacobs unfazed, although he does despair of convincing a disbelieving world of the reality of alien activity before it is too late. Competent hypnotists A major problem, as Jacobs sees it, is that many abduction stories are either false or are genuine but badly distorted. The solution is to use only competent hypnotists. Jacobs makes it clear to us in his latest book that he is a competent hypnotist. (5) This is known to personnel managers as self assessment. As an independent ufologist, Professor Jacobs has no line managers to appraise his high opinion of himself and his work. However, his colleagues think he is barmy, though he puts it more eloquently, if less succinctly: "When I talk about the subject to my colleagues in the academic community, I know they think that my intellectual abilities are seriously impaired." (6) As it is reasonable to assume that most of his colleagues are fairly intelligent, perhaps he should listen to them. Secrecy In order that the project being carried out by the aliens can proceed smoothly, secrecy is essential. Thus there must be no physical evidence or physical manifestation that would convince sceptics that something extraordinary is happening. To see what this would mean in practice let us consider the actions which the aliens need to take to abduct someone from a car and then return him without causing other people to suspect that anything is amiss. The aliens must wait until there are no other vehicles nearby. They must ensure that other vehicles are not approaching the area of the abduction. They must take control of anyone who strays into the area. They must take all possibilities into account. They must be invisible. Their saucers must be invisible to radar as well as optically. They must check beforehand whether the temporary absence of the abductee would cause problems by arousing the suspicion of others who are expecting their imminent arrival at work or for some urgent appointment. So they must know what all the people in the area, or all those who could possibly be affected are doing or thinking of doing. If they are so clever, there is no reason why anyone should ever know about or suspect their existence, yet they have become an integral part of popular culture. Why? Greys are the abduction experts According to Hopkins, Jacobs and their followers, if the Greys have decided to abduct you there is nothing you can do to stop them. However, it seems that the Greys took over the abduction business because various types of ETs who were given the contract for abducting Earthlings in the past were not very good at it. They tended to get into difficulties because they didn't have the knack of gliding through walls, so had to user cruder methods. Take the following case, for instance: In the early part of 1965 several reports appeared in the Buenos Aires press of attempts by Martians to abduct people in the north-eastern part of the country. The following is the only case in which details are available. One night in the first week of February, a man living at Torrent, near Santo Tom, called his neighbours to come outside and observe five luminous objects flying overhead. Then a transparent craft landed, and from it emerged five Martians , nearly 2 metres high, each having only one eye in the centre of the forehead. On their heads were instruments giving off flashes of different colours. They entered a farmhouse and tried to seize a man, but withdrew in the face of the firm attitude of the villagers, and flew away. On February 6, however, they returned and were seen by many people. Once again they tried to catch a man and failed. He escaped and gave the alarm. The villagers turned out in strength and fired their shotguns at the Martians , seemingly with no effect. (7) How to avoid being abducted Methods devised by Jacobs and his abductees to deter the Greys have so far proved unsuccessful. But I wonder if they have ever tried any of the old methods used to stop the fairies from abducting people? Katharine Briggs tells us that people had many ways of protecting themselves against fairies. These included: making the sign of the cross or carrying a cross, especially one made of iron; saying prayers or chanting hymns; carrying and sprinkling holy water or churchyard mould; carrying bread or salt; ringing bells and whistling; using certain herbs and plants, such as four-leafed clover, St. John's wort, and daisies (a child wearing daisy chains was supposed to be safe from fairy kidnapping). To stop the fairies entering your house, nail iron horse shoes above the doors. (8) Some people think that the best protection against the Greys is disbelief. But, as Philip Klass warns, it must be a firm and sincere disbelief: '. . . UFOnauts will never abduct a "True UFO- Skeptic" (TUFOS), only those who secretly believe in UFOs and those who claim they are "not especially interested in UFOs". UFOnauts can easily discriminate between a TUFOS and a EUFOS ("Ersatz UFO Skeptic").' (9) So there you have it; when the kiddies stop believing in fairies, the fairies die. And the Greys are just modern-day fairies - aren't they? References 1. Jacobs, David M. The Threat, Simon & Schuster, New York, 1998 2. Jacobs, David M. Alien Encounters, Virgin, London, 1996, 258- 259 3. Ibid., 259-260 4. Kenworthy, Christopher. Abduction Evidence , Alien Encounters, No. 25, 1998, 68 5. Jacobs. The Threat, op. cit. 6. Ibid., 12 7. Creighton, Gordon. The Humanoids" in Latin America , Flying Saucer Review: The Humanoids, Special Issue, October-November 1966, 39 8. Briggs, Katharine. A Dictionary of Fairies, Hobgoblins, Brownies, Bogies and Other Supernatural Creatures, Penguin Books, 1977, 335-336 9. Klass, Philip J. UFO-Abductions: A Dangerous Game, Prometheus Books, Buffalo, New York, 1988, 194 LOST IN THE FOREST: MIKE ROGERS AND HIS LOGGING CONTRACT In the previous issue I expressed doubts as to the plausibility of problems with Mike Rogers's logging contract as a motive for perpetrating a UFO hoax. However, Philip Klass still thinks that this is the likely motive, and he sent the following letter: Because of my hectic workload, I will deal here only with the Mike Rogers logging contract with the US Forest Service and whether he might have "staged" the incident in the hope of getting an "Act-of-God" extension for his contract - without suffering the normal 10% cut in contract price - as well as possibly winning the National Enquirer $100,000 UFO prize (subsequently raised to $1,000,000). At the time of the (alleged) UFO incident, Wednesday 5 November, during the 3 months since Rogers had got a contract extension on his Turkey Springs contract - taking a 10% contract price cut - he and his crew had cleared only roughly one-third of the total acreage. To avoid a default, Rogers would have to clear twice as much timber in the next five days as he had cleared in the previous three months or obtain a contract extension. On Tuesday 28 October, Rogers admitted to the Forest Service inspector that he could not complete the job on time and said he planned to meet with Forest Service contracting officer Maurice Marchbanks to request another contract extension (with another 10% price cut). Question 1. As of 5 November (8 days later) - the night of the UFO incident - Rogers had never called or contacted Marchbanks to request a contract extension. WHY NOT? On Saturday 8 November 1975, when Travis was still "missing", Rogers and Travis's older brother Duane, were interviewed (tape recorded) by ufologist Fred Silvanus. At one point, Rogers said: "See, this contract that we have [with the Forest Service] is seriously behind schedule. In fact, Monday [11 November] the contract is up [i.e. end date for completing the work]. We haven't done any work on it since Wednesday because of this thing. And therefore it won't be done [by 10 November]. I hope they [the Forest Service] will take that into account, this problem." Question 2. What was Rogers "hoping" the Forest Service would do? (If they gave him a 5-day extension, he would not be able to complete the remaining 238 acres.) Travis and Rogers claim that the Turkey Springs contract was the best, most profitable that Rogers had ever had. Question 3. If this claim is true, why did Rogers and crew spend so much time working for other Forest Service contractors, neglecting Rogers's commitment on Turkey Springs? (One possible explanation is that Rogers and crew prefer to work for less pay and help other contractors avoid default on their Forest Service contracts - even if it means that Rogers defaults on his own contract.) Question 4. If the UFO incident were true, then it certainly qualified as an "Act-of-God", i.e., an extraordinary event that nobody could anticipate. If Forest Service officials believed the incident had occurred, they should have offered Rogers at least a brief extension of his contract without penalty. But they did not. WHY? I look forward to your response to these questions. Philip J. Klass, Washington, D.C. So we are back to motives again. Did Rogers and Walton contrive a hoax in the hope that Rogers would be able to avoid a 10% penalty on his contract, or was the aim to try to win up to $1,000,000 from the National Enquirer? This does not seem to me to be the right way to go about solving this case. The scientific question is not Why? but How? The forensic scientist doesn't want to know why the burglar opened the safe, he wants to know how he did it. If the Walton affair is a hoax, why was it not exposed years ago instead of becoming a classic believe-it-or-not story? Remember, a hoax would have involved the five other loggers in Rogers's gang and, probably, Walton's mother, his brother Duane, and possibly a few other people. There is also the question of the involvement of the police. If the incident had happened in Britain the hoaxers would probably have been charged with wasting police time - a criminal offence. Surely there are similar laws in America? In Skeptics UFO Newsletter No. 51 (May 1998) Philip Klass comments on the fact that one of the loggers, Ken Peterson, refused to sign a paper giving permission (not legally essential) for him to be portrayed in the film (Fire in the Sky): If Peterson knew the incident were a hoax, this could explain his refusal to be portrayed by name in the movie. But if Peterson knew it was a hoax, why didn't he just say so? What advantage do all parties to the hoax gain by keeping it going indefinitely? And how did they sustain the hoax in the face of intensive questioning and investigations by police, reporters, and ufologists? What sort of preparations did they make on the evening of 5 November 1975 to ensure that the police would be convinced that something serious had happened? Any ideas, anyone? REAL UFOS Two mysterious objects carrying bright lights were seen travelling between Manchester and Leeds between about 5.00 pm and 5.45 pm on 2 February 1998. They seemed to be at a fairly low altitude and some witnesses said that they made a humming noise. There can be no doubt as to the reality of these sightings because of the large number of independent witnesses. At least two video recordings of them were obtained. A detailed report by Mark Ian Birdsall appears in the May-June 1998 issue of UFO Magazine. Attempts to identify them have so far been unsuccessful. Andy Roberts, in his newsletter The Armchair Ufologist (Tough on Ufology - Tough on the Causes of Ufology) suggests: Whatever agency was flying these craft sent them over built up areas and with lights on intentionally. They then monitor public opinion via the press, which gives them the feedback they need. --------------------------------------------------------------- Are you concerned about the activities of alien abduction researchers? Then you should subscribe to Abduction Watch, a monthly newsletter produced by Kevin McClure. In the UK only, 12 issues for 10. 5 (cash, UK cheque or International Money Order) will bring you 5 monthly issues in the UK, 4 in Europe, and 3 issues - economy airmail where available - anywhere else in the world. Please make cheques, etc. payable to Kevin McClure and send them to him at: 3 Claremont Grove, Leeds LS3 1AX, UK. --------------------------------------------------------------- For readers who do not already subscribe to or exchange with our journal Magonia, full details may be obtained from the Editor: John Rimmer, John Dee Cottage, 5 James Terrace, Mortlake Churchyard, London SW14 8HB, UK. e-mail: johnr@magonia.demon.co.uk The Magonia web site is: www.magonia.demon.co.uk Web Editor: Mark Pilkington e-mail: markp@syzygy.co.uk --------------------------------------------------------------- MAGONIA ETH Bulletin: Available on the Magonia web site. Only a limited number of printed copies available for the privileged few. Please address all correspondence, articles, etc. to the Editor: John Harney, 27 Enid Wood House, High Street, Bracknell, Berkshire RG12 1LN, UK
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 02 From: Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 17:44:09 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 11:30:24 -0400 Subject: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 02 from: http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/ethbull/ethbull2.html MAGONIA ETH Bulletin No. 2, April 1998 Editor: JOHN HARNEY --------------------------------------------------------------- EDITORIAL Most sceptics, in their efforts to debunk the ETH, employ a priori and ad hominem arguments to attack reports which seem to indicate that there might be a case to be made for it. They also sometimes give the impression that any explanation will do, so that we are sometimes given two or three of them to choose from. We intend to take a more reasonable line, maintaining a critical attitude to inadequate sceptical explanations as well as a refusal to accept unlikely tales unsupported by corroborative evidence or independent witnesses. --------------------------------------------------------------- HE IS A LUMBERJACK AND HE'S OKAY: THE WALTON EXPERIENCE A baffling case Q. What do sceptics do when they encounter a baffling UFO report? A. They jump up and down and shout 'Liars! Liars!' Many initially puzzling cases are eventually solved, at least to the satisfaction of most serious ufologists, by a process of long and painstaking investigation and careful examination of the available evidence and testimony. A few, however, seem to the unbiased researcher to offer no easy answers and it is these that rouse the sceptics to hysteria in their denunciations of witnesses and ufologists. One of the most interesting of such cases is the incident which occurred in Arizona on 5 November 1975. On that day Travis Walton claimed to have encountered a UFO while on his way home from his work as a logger in the Sitgreaves National Forest. He was apparently taken on board the UFO and returned, several miles away, five days later. If Walton had been alone at the time this story would probably have been almost forgotten by now. The problem for the sceptics, though, was that when Walton encountered the flying saucer there were six other men with him. Apparently they all supported his story and testified that they panicked and drove away when Walton was zapped by the saucer. They returned a short time later, but could not find him. He turned up five days later in a telephone booth in the nearby town of Heber. Possible explanations This is a case which is difficult to debunk without asserting that the witnesses are liars. Not only must they be liars, but they must also be highly disciplined, painstaking and ingenious liars. The only other approach is to suppose that Walton and his workmates saw an unusual natural phenomenon which they misinterpreted as a flying saucer, and that Walton, knocked out by an electrical discharge from the phenomenon, wandered about in a trance for five days before fully regaining normal consciousness. Both of these explanations have a certain plausibility, but only if you just skim through the story and pay little attention to the details. On closer examination both of them seem rather feeble. However, there seem to be no other obvious explanations and rejection of these hypotheses would leave open the possibility which dedicated sceptics will do anything to avoid. Encounter in the forest A very strange feature of this case is the concentration on what happened, or allegedly happened, after the incident, with very little attention being paid to the incident itself. Most writers on the subject seem to copy descriptions of the UFO encounter from one another rather than referring to the description written by Walton himself. For example, some writers tell us that when the men saw the UFO, Walton jumped out of the truck before it stopped. But, according to Walton: Suddenly we were electrified by the most awesome, incredible sight we had seen in our entire lives. 'Stop!' John cried out. 'Stop the truck!' As the truck skidded to a dusty halt in the rocky road, I threw open the door for a clearer view of the dazzling sight. 'My God!' Allen yelled. 'It's a flying saucer!' Mike shut off the engine. We watched, spellbound. ... Turning back to that impelling spectacle in the air, I was suddenly seized with the urgency to see the craft at close range. I was afraid it would fly away and I would miss the chance of a lifetime to satisfy my curiosity about it. I hurriedly got out of the truck and started toward the hovering ship. (1) The description that Walton gives of what happened after the 'blue-green ray' shot out from the UFO is obviously a reconstruction based on what the other witnesses said. They got the impression that Walton was hurled backwards for ten feet and fell heavily on his right shoulder. This happened very suddenly, so their recollections could be inaccurate. However, Philip Klass has made much of the fact that doctors who examined Walton about 24 hours after his return (i.e. about six days after the alleged incident) found no bruises anywhere on his body. He doesn't consider the possibility that Walton did not suffer any noticeable bruising, or that the bruises would have disappeared within a few days. Was it a hoax? Klass, and most other sceptics, presumably think that the whole affair was an elaborate hoax. Let us, then, consider it to have been a hoax and try to see if this explanation makes sense. If it was a hoax then the group of loggers did not see anything unusual in the forest that day (that is, assuming that they were in the forest). Therefore the whole business must have been carefully rehearsed beforehand. Having got the concocted story clear in their minds they drove into Heber where one of the men, Ken Peterson, phoned the police. Deputy Ellison duly arrived to interview the men, who told him that Walton was missing. The men were either in a highly emotional state, or were excellent actors. When Travis reappeared five days later he, too, was in a highly emotional state. Either that or, as generally agreed, his acting was brilliant. So, we have seven hoaxers who are fine actors, wasting their talents cutting down trees, rather then making Hollywood blockbusters. Such a hoax requires a motive as well as the not inconsiderable ability and discipline required to fool enough people for a long enough time. Two main motives have been suggested. Philip Klass asserted that, as the men were behind in their work, they stood to gain financially by having their contract terminated because of some cause outside their control. However, the contract was held by Mike Rogers, who paid his men by the hour for work actually done. Forest Service staff who supervised the contracts confirmed that Rogers would gain nothing by terminating his contract in this way. They didn't believe the UFO story anyway. In his latest book, Walton has explained the details of Forest Service contracts at great length (2) and Klass seems to have finally dropped this explanation, as it is not mentioned in his latest newsletter, which is entirely devoted to yet another attack on Walton, his methods and motives. (3) It is amusing to note that a number of sceptics uncritically strung along with Klass's allegations for many years, for no better reason that he has been recognised as the arch-sceptic of ufology ever since the death of Donald Menzel, who is the sceptics' equivalent of a saint. The other motive was the large sum of money offered by the National Enquirer for anyone who could prove that aliens had visited the Earth. However, Walton, Rogers and the other men must have been aware that they would be thoroughly grilled about their story and that, when they were questioned separately, a fantastic yarn told by seven men would soon display serious inconsistencies and fall apart, leaving them all looking very foolish. Actually it was the UFO organisation APRO that contacted the National Enquirer, and not Walton or Rogers. They also must have known that they would have to face the dreaded polygraph tests. Polygraphs Polygraph? I was surprised, when I started looking at the literature on this case, to see how much space was devoted to the use of this absurd contraption. Believers and sceptics alike seem to treat it with great reverence. The descriptions and controversy concerning polygraph tests used in the Walton investigation have done nothing to alter my perception that 'lie detector' testing is just one of those strange and irrational American customs, like shooting holes in road signs. The believers asserted that the polygraph tests showed that the witnesses were telling the truth and the sceptics were satisfied that they showed that they were liars. Again, the lack of consensus goes to confirm my impressions about this gadget. Klass keeps up the pressure The witnesses have stuck to their original story over the years and the sceptics have little more to offer by way of explanation than calling them liars. Klass goes even further, by telling us what Walton would have done if he really had been in a UFO: If Travis was really abducted by a UFO, and even if he previously had no interest in the subject, UFOs should have become the focal point of his interest. He should certainly have joined APRO, whose leaders endorsed his abduction tale, to participate in its efforts to 'solve the UFO mystery'. But he did not ... Surely he would want to attend UFO conferences and 'support group' meetings to talk to other "abductees". But the only UFO conferences Walton attends - always with Rogers - are those where they are invited speakers. (4) Klass is trying to have it both ways. If Walton did these things he and other sceptics would say that he was just like the other abductees, his experiences being purely subjective. So whatever Walton does or does not do, it somehow proves that his story is false or that he is deluded. Klass also criticises Walton for refusing to attempt to recall any further details of his claimed experiences at the hands of the aliens. But if he did eventually come up a greatly extended account Klass would not believe a word of it anyway. Jerome Clark has commented: 'Should the Walton episode turn out to be a hoax, we may be confident that it will not be the kind of hoax Klass says it was.' This seems fair enough to me, if a little enigmatic. In his latest newsletter Klass says: 'It is rumored that Clark helped Walton write his first book and there is evidence that he served as "ghostwriter" for much of the new material in Walton's recent book.' (5) Over to you, Jerry . . . References 1. Walton, Travis. Fire in the Sky: The Walton Experience, Marlowe & Company, New York, 1997, 35-37 2. Ibid., 303-312 3. Klass, Philip J. (ed.). Skeptics UFO Newsletter, No. 50, March 1998 4. Ibid. 5. Ibid. --------------------------------------------------------------- FUNDACION ANOMALIA Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos In January 1997, the Spanish Ministry of Education and Culture approved the official establishment of Fundacisn Anomalma (Anomaly Foundation), a non-profit organisation which is the first of its kind in Europe. Fundacisn Anomalma is a cultural organisation, created by a group of experienced UFO researchers and supported by a large number of investigators, experts, qualified individuals, scientists and others. They have decided to offer their books, archives, experience and dedication, as well as financial assistance and know-how, to make this project viable. This project has the following objectives: 1. To promote the study, in a rational and scientific perspective, of anomalous aerospatial phenomena, commonly called UFOs, and other related subjects, as well as their social- cultural influence. 2. To preserve and professionally manage archives, files, libraries and other legacies covering such topics. 3. To continue editing the well-established UFO journal Cuadernos de Ufologma (Ufological Papers), considered the best UFO information source in Spanish, as well as other publications, books, research monographs, essays, etc. 4. To finance UFO investigations through research grants and scholarships. Fundacisn Anomalma was born within the team backing Cuadernos de Ufologma, a loosely organised group of professionals who edit, collaborate or circulate around this most influential Spanish- language journal. As required by law, the foundation has a board of directors, composed as follows: President, Mr Julio Arcas (Santander); First Vice-president, Mr Josi Ruesga (Sevilla); Second Vice-president and Research Director, Mr V.J. Ballester Olmos (Valencia); Legal Director, Mr Matmas Morey (Palma de Mallorca); Publications Officer, Mr Luis Gonzalez (Malaga); Archives Director, Dr Antonio Petit (Sevilla); Miss Matilde Gonzalez (Santander). Fundacisn Anomalma unites a number of decentralised and even competing organisations, becoming an outstanding example of maturity not commonly seen in the UFO field. In order to create this foundation, several UFO libraries were donated, with over 1,200 volumes, as well as nine major national UFO archives, computer equipment, etc. The budget for the year 1998 amounts to 8 million pesetas (US $55,000). Projects in progress include: o Data base on the Spanish ufological culture. This is a most ambitious project which aims to gather together all UFO information collected in Spain in the past 50 years: UFO reports, photographs, data on UFO organisations, press information, publications, etc. o Collective UFO book. Under the editorship of University of Barcelona documentalist Mr Martm Fls, the book concept will include contributions from many authors who review local UFO data and their significance, with the purpose of being informative and didactic. o CD ROM on Spanish UFO literature. o Field manual for UFO investigators. Project already accomplished: o Diccionario Tematico de Ufologma. This is a hard-cover, 416- page thematic UFO dictionary edited by Matmas Morey, with 18 contributors. The result of a three-year effort, the book was published by Fundacisn Anomalma in December 1997. 1998 grants: o 'Ricardo Caruncho' Prize, 100,000 pesetas (US $700). This is to be awarded for the best field investigation or case analysis performed during the year. o 'Universitas' Scholarship, 150,000 pesetas (US $1,000), to finance a research project on the UFO phenomenon, to be prepared in an academic environment (college, university) which applies a scientific methodology in any field. Partly sponsored by the Fund for UFO Research, Inc. (Washington, D.C.) o 'Zurich' International Prize, 250,000 pesetas (US $1,700), for any quality research on the UFO problem. Entries accepted from any nation. Fully sponsored by the Zurich Insurance Co. (Barcelona, Spain) o 'Cuadernos de Ufologma' Prize, a diploma and commemorative item to honour a UFO publication. Fundacisn Anomalma, Apartado de Correos, 5.041 - 39080 Santander, Spain --------------------------------------------------------------- BOOK REVIEWS Timothy Good. Alien Base: Earth's Encounters with Extraterrestrials, Century, London, 1998. #16.99 Although few British ufologists take the ETH very seriously, most of them are uneasily aware that this is what draws the crowds to UFO lectures and, more importantly, sells books by the trainload. Seeing the danger of boring his readers with yet more rather dull official UFO reports and catalogues of funny lights in the sky, and still unable to produce evidence that would convince a reasonably alert six-year-old, Good obviously feels that he has to come up with something. Some of us can remember the old days when we read about the amazing exploits of Adamski, Fry, Bethurum, Angelucci and all the other contactees, and naively wondered if there might possibly be some grain of truth in their stories. Quite a few of us are still around, and Good obviously realises this and is mindful of the old adage: The older they get, the dafter they get. And what could be dafter than attempting to rehabilitate that notorious fantasist, who needs no introduction. Ladies and gentlemen, George Adamski! [Applause] It seems that Adamski really did meet the space people, but it all went to his head and they eventually decided he was untrustworthy. How does Good know this? Simple - a friend told him. This friend had been contacted by 'the same, or a similar group of extraterrestrials that Adamski knew' who told her that 'Adamski was indeed selected and contacted by this certain group of extraterrestrials, but at an early stage he disclosed some secret information with which he had been entrusted, and it therefore became necessary for them to feed him with false information which would discredit him, thereby protecting their own interests'. So that's how it's done; if you want to know if one contactee is genuine, just ask another contactee. There are other ways of testing the veracity of contactees. For example, Paul Villa was asked what the other crew members were doing while he was conversing with the pilot of the saucer. Villa replied that they were just bathing their feet in the river. Good remarks: 'At the time, that reply, delivered without so much as the bat of an eyelid, astonished me. Eventually, though, it contributed to a growing conviction that Paul Villa's story contains essential elements of truth.' There are many other contactee yarns in this book, so if you are as easy to convince as Good is, then you might enjoy reading it. But do I detect a hint of doubt? The author's use of chapter headings such as 'A Pantomime of Unrealities', 'A Festival of Absurdities', 'Alien Fantasia' and 'Beyond Belief' suggests that perhaps we shouldn't take these tales too literally. Nicholas Redfern. The FBI Files: The FBI's UFO Top Secrets Exposed, Simon & Schuster, London, 1998. #16.99 The FBI at one time denied that they investigated UFO reports, but files obtained from them under the provisions of the Freedom of Information legislation have shown that they have been involved from the beginning. US Army Intelligence had asked for their help in questioning witnesses to find out if they were 'sincere in their statements that they saw these discs, or whether their statements were prompted by personal desire for publicity or political reasons'. Of particular interest are the FBI's investigations of contactees, such as Adamski and Van Tassel, which were partly accounted for by the fact that some people complained that they were spreading politically subversive ideas. Redfern, though, has devised a complicated theory to account for the FBI's continuing interest in the subject. At an early stage, relations with the military became rather strained because the FBI suspected that they were withholding information that they had promised to share. It seems that J. Edgar Hoover was intrigued by reports of crashed saucers and was keen to discover the truth of the matter. Redfern's thesis is that, as they couldn't get satisfactory answers from the military, they attempted to obtain information by checking on people who claimed knowledge of UFO landings or crashes. He goes into great detail about the alleged Aztec UFO crash of 1948, which is described in Frank Scully's book Behind the Flying Saucers. The theory is that Leo GeBauer and Silas Newton had somehow learned about it and passed on the details to Scully, who published a distorted version. He implies that the FBI's interest in these characters was due to their knowledge of UFOs rather than because of their criminal activities. The information that Redfern has extracted from the FBI concerning their investigations of UFO reports, ufologists and witnesses is very interesting. However, as in his previous book (A Covert Agenda), his implausible speculations and his use of unreliable sources to bolster his support for the ETH, tends to spoil what could be a useful and serious work on his chosen theme. --------------------------------------------------------------- LETTER What I can reasonably add from my long-past experience of DS8 (now AS2), as well as my subsequent reading of tolerably well- compiled UFO reports, is that - setting aside the ETH altogether - I doubt that the Psychosocial Hypothesis will wholly dispose of the problem. A few (a very few) of the reports reaching the Ministry of Defence from the public suggested the existence of transient phenomena which could not be explained either by conventional occurrences of a physical kind or by imagination. Reports reaching us from RAF personnel (invariably of far higher quality and always submitted with the unease which is felt by people with a career to lose!) sometimes carried the same implication, viz. that something was going on 'out there' which had as much 'reality' - as well as the absence of 'solidity' - as any rainbow. Rainbows are utterly 'real', even if a bit idiosyncratic in their properties; the aurora borealis achieves a slightly higher degree of 'solidity' (e.g. in its detectability by radio receivers); and Nature contains other phenomena which we would be rash to dismiss as 'unreal', UFOs and ghosts perhaps being instances. The difficulties come when people jump to simplistic conclusions about these things - e.g. rainbows are a sign from God or a manifestation of the Goddess Iris, ghosts are direct evidence for human survival of death, UFOs are visitors from space. A more 'phenomenological' approach might get us further. Ralph Noyes, London --------------------------------------------------------------- THE ADAMSKI SAUCER Most ufologists agree that the dome-shaped object photographed by George Adamski was not a Venusian scout ship, as he claimed. However, he obviously photographed something. Many attempts have been made to identify it, most of them pure guesswork. These guesses include: an electric light fitting, a chicken feeder, the lid of a wine cooler, a part of a vacuum cleaner, and a model specially built for the purpose. No one has produced convincing evidence to support any of these identifications. Perhaps some of our readers have information or ideas that would help to clear up this little mystery? --------------------------------------------------------------- Are you concerned about the activities of alien abduction researchers? Then you should subscribe to Abduction Watch, a monthly newsletter produced by Kevin McClure. In the UK only, 12 issues for #10. #5 (cash, UK cheque or International Money Order) will bring you 5 monthly issues in the UK, 4 in Europe, and 3 issues - economy airmail where available - anywhere else in the world. Please make cheques, etc. payable to Kevin McClure and send them to him at: 3 Claremont Grove, Leeds LS3 1AX, UK. --------------------------------------------------------------- For readers who do not already subscribe to or exchange with our journal Magonia, full details may be obtained from the Editor: John Rimmer, John Dee Cottage, 5 James Terrace, Mortlake Churchyard, London SW14 8HB, UK. e-mail: johnr@magonia.demon.co.uk The Magonia web site is: www.magonia.demon.co.uk Web Editor: Mark Pilkington e-mail: markp@syzygy.co.uk --------------------------------------------------------------- MAGONIA ETH Bulletin: Please address all correspondence, articles, etc. to the Editor: John Harney, 27 Enid Wood House, High Street, Bracknell, Berkshire RG12 1LN , United Kingdom
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Re: Ray Santilli V Bob Kiviat From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 12:09:48 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 12:46:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Ray Santilli V Bob Kiviat >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Ray Santilli V Bob Kiviat >Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 16:05:43 -0400 >Ray might well be in a catch 22 situation: >1. I doubt one can copyright stolen classified material. And the >AA film, if authentic, would be just that. >2. If the AA film is a copy of original footage (should the >original footage be stolen goods or not), I doubt you can get a >copyright on it either. Copyright implies: ownership and >intellectual property. You cannot copyright copies of someone >else's work. >3. For Santilli to own a copyright on the AA film necessarily >implies that it is a work of creation from his part, on which he >can claim ownership. >4. WHERE and HOW he got the copyright seem to be good questions. >5. The next thing would to get a copy of the original legal >document which should hopefully be of public domain. >Anyone on the list could confirm these assertions or tell me how >naive I can be? >Serge Salvaille I have a copy of the copyright filing made by Ray Santilli. Under author it says, "Cameraman, anonymous", and states transfer of Copyright to Ray's company, Orbital Media, Ltd. Nothing of substance can be learned from this document. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? From: StrmNut <StrmNut@aol.com> [Greg St. Pierre] Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 11:45:50 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 12:45:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? >Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:08:59 -0400 >From: JOHN LUSHMAN <PHUFON@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Yes, there are idiots who are making things up and they >deserve the full weight of the full weight of ufology to come >crashing down on them. What is the full weight of ufology? If we assume the number of ufologists to be around, say, 1500......and at an average weight of about 150 lbs, that's 2,250,000 lbs. That would do a substantial amount of damage to any idiot! Greg
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 20 From: Masinaigan <Masinaigan@aol.com> [Joseph Trainor] Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 12:04:44 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 12:48:59 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 20 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 3, Number 20 May 17, 1998 Editor: Joseph Trainor UFOs SEEN AT NIGHT IN NORTHERN FRANCE On Wednesday, April 22, 1998, at 4:30 a.m., G. Betrand, a night watchman from Bapaume, was making his rounds at a store on the Rue du College in Arras. "The night was beautiful," he reported, "No wind, no clouds." "During my walk around the outside of the building, I noticed in the sky a luminous point which moved about. I kept my eyes on it for a dozen seconds. At first I thought it was an airplane, but there were no bright lights along the wings, nor directional lights." "This (object) was like a great whitish 'star,' much quicker than an airplane, but very much slower than a meteorite. It was bizarre. I believe that the luminous mass was a little bigger than a millimeter at arm's length. It seemed to me that the luminous mass was moving from Dainville toward Ste. Catherine (i.e. from southwest to northeast--J.T.) over the suburbs of Arras, but this cannot be verified. All at once, it disappeared, and I saw nothing more." Arras is a city in the department Pas de Calais 182 kilometers (95 miles) north of Paris. Six hours earlier, on Tuesday, April 21, 1998, at 10:02 p.m., a mysterious blackout shut off all the electricity in the city of Aix-en-Provence. Mme. G. Lydie, who lives in Digne-les-Bains, said she had just begun to watch a movie on Canal France 2 when the TV and all the lights in the house went out. Ironically, the movie was I Married an Alien. "Researching information in the local press during the days following, I found no mention of the incident," Mme. Lydie reported. "Finding that astonishing, I contacted a number of French journalists. They confirmed that nothing had happened. I then called several of my relatives, and they told me that there had indeed been a blackout, and it was confined only to Aix-en-Provence." Aix-en-Provence is near France's Mediterranean coast, located in the department Bouches-du-Rhone about 48 kilometers (30 miles) northeast of Marseilles. On Tuesday, March 10, 1998, at 7:35 p.m., G. Thierry was on his way to work in Marcq-en-Baroeul, a city on the border with Belgium, when he spied an unusual sight in the sky. "As I was going down the Rue de la Briquetterie," he reported, "there appeared two luminous spheres of a very yellow color, which came towards me from the east. The phenomenon flew over me, followed by a third ball of light identical to the other two. The three spheres then formed a perfect equilateral triangle in front of me." "The phenomenon followed a perfect rectilinear trajectory in an easterly direction and repeated the appearance of two luminous balls followed by a third." Thierry was adamant that "the phenomenon" was not caused by an airplane. Marcq-en-Baroeul is in the department Nord about 210 kilometers (125 miles) north of Paris. (Merci beaucoup a Franck Marie et Jocelyn Morel de Banque Ovni pour ces nouvelles.) DAYLIGHT DISC SPOTTED IN BELGIUM On Saturday, May 9, 1998, Lawrence B. was at his home in Tervuren, Belgium when he looked up and spotted a bright gleam in the sky. "I was outside when I saw a very small object in the sky at 2 p.m.," he reported. "It looked like a star--looked metallic. I estimated its height (altitude) at a possible 40,000 feet (12,121 meters). It stayed stationary for about ten minutes." "When I went to get my telescope, I lost visual confirmation. I looked for another 20 minutes but found nothing. It couldn't have been a weather balloon because they do not stay geo-stationary at such a high altitude." (Email Interview) WELSH FAMILY ENCOUNTERS A CLOAKED UFO On Friday, April 24, 1998, M.W. and her two sons were delivering newspapers in their hometown of Port Talbot, West Glamorgan, Wales when they had an unusual encounter. "It was approximately eight o'clock, just before dark and the sky was clear," she reported. "We saw in the sky, not very high, lots of separate spiral shapes moving in a circular motion. It was as if there was a spaceship of some sort that was invisible, and we could only see the movement of some sort of energy underneath it. The spirals were positioned apart in a circular movement, and they all moved across the sky together, staying in a circle." When the family first saw the phenomenon, it was hovering over an abandoned gas works. M.W. pointed out that this is a residential area close to a British Petroleum refinery and a British Steel Works plant. "We watched this (UFO) move for about two minutes" before it flew away over the seaport city. Port Talbot is 45 miles (72 kilometers) west of Cardiff. (Email Interview) STRANGE CRATER FOUND IN NORTHERN IRELAND Ufologists in Northern Ireland are investigating a mysterious crater found on a farm near Belleek, in County Fermanagh last January. The site was first investigated by the Armagh Planetarium. The farmer had found a circular crater six feet in diameter filled with water. "The crater was drained, but nothing was found except a badly-damaged milk churn." In April, "investigators found a 1.5 millimeter bead of glass," thought to be a remnant of a fallen meteor. On December 13, 1997, the night the "mystery meteor" struck the ice cap in Greenland, people in Northern Ireland reported seeing "a bright flash" in County Fermanagh. "The site is very muddy, and it is suggested that the" object that made the crater "may have sunk out of reach...Planetarium officials say the object struck at about 90 degrees and might be part of the meteor that struck Greenland. Had the Greenland meteor hit Northern Ireland, it would have levelled the whole town of Belleek." (See UK UFO Network newsletter number 92, part 2. Many thanks to the gang at UK UFO Network for this news story.) UFO SIGHTED IN A SUBURB OF SAN DIEGO On Sunday, May 10, 1998, at 2:15 a.m., Andrew D. and his wife were on their way home, driving through Bonita, California (population 12,542) when they spied a UFO in the night sky. "We stopped and watched for about five seconds," Andrew reported, "Very cool." He estimated that the UFO "was 45 degrees off the horizon. It popped through the clouds from an unknown direction, but I was facing north. It was only the row of lights--nothing more. There was no glow or aura." "My wife says she heard what sounded like a huge jet, though I remember no sounds." Bonita is a suburb of San Diego, located on highway S17 about 10 miles (16 kilometers) southeast of Sea World. (Email Interview) LARGE UFO HOVERS OVER A NEW JERSEY HOME On Thursday, May 7, 1998, a 10-year-old girl and her 8-year-old brother spotted a large UFO hovering above their house in Mullica Hill, New Jersey (population 270). The children "described the craft as being larger than their house and hovering above their home, where their mother was sleeping. The boy claims to have observed craft previously and is always watching for them." "Just before he entered the house, he looked up and was pointing at the craft. The sister had always thought that her brother was making up stories. She looked up and saw what he was seeing and exclaimed, 'Oh, my God!'" The children said they saw "an alien" floating in the air alongside the hovering UFO. "They saw both the UFO and an alien hovering above the house. The alien stared back at them, scaring them, and they ran into the house, yelling for their dad. They (then) went back out and, although the alien was no longer discernible, there was a UFO still hovering over the house." "The mother tried to get up but was very sleepy and had difficulty waking, so she did not see the craft. When she completely awakened, the mother listened to her children's story, and then asked each to go to their own room and draw exactly what they had observed. Both children draw a picture of the alien and the UFO. The drawings by the two children matched in most details." Mullica Hill, N.J. is on Route 322 about 20 miles (32 kilometers) south of Philadelphia. (See Filer's Files #19 for 1998. Many thanks to George A. Filer, Eastern Director of MUFON, for this news story.) (Editor's Note: A similar "floating alien" was seen by a farm couple in Rho, Lombardia province, Italy two months ago.) NEW UFO SIGHTING IN GULF BREEZE, FLORIDA On Tuesday, May 12, 1998, at 8:52 p.m., Judy Francoeur and Pat Gerbig were at Shoreline Park South in Gulf Breeze, Florida (population 5,530) when they spotted a UFO low on the horizon near the Comfort Inn. "The object was a little bigger than the street lights on the toll bridge," Pat reported, adding that the UFO went "from the southeast moving to the north. It was orangeish-red amber in color." "First time the object popped in was between the Holiday Inn on the Beach and and Comfort Inn. Elevation was between 10 and 15 degrees." "The light went out and returned three times to the right of the Comfort Inn and then to the left of the Comfort Inn. The object was visible for one to three seconds during each period of visibility. Total time of the multiple sightings was less than two minutes. No sound was heard during the sightings." Three other people witnessed the UFO in addition to Pat and Judy. Gulf Breeze, a UFO hotspot for the past ten years, is on the Gulf of Mexico about 7 miles (11 kilometers) south of Pensacola, Florida. (See Filer's Files #19 for 1998. Many thanks to George A. Filer for this news story.) MYSTERIOUS EXPLOSIONS SPOTTED IN DEEP SPACE Astronomers searching the sky for supernovae-- bright light burst caused by exploding stars--have detected two recently. But the explosions took place in regions of outer space where there are no stars. On April 17, 1998, astronomers W.D. Li, M. Medjaz, R.R. Treffers and A.N. Filippenko of the University of California at Berkeley "report the discovery of an apparent supernova during the course of the Lick Observatory Supernovae Search." The team used a 0.5-meter Katzmann Automatic Imaging Telescope to find the explosion, which was designated as Supernova 1998bn. The explosion was spotted near galaxy NGC4462. "New object appeared on April 17 and brightened about 3.7 mag (magnitude) in 10 days. The Digital Sky Survey does not show any star at the position of SN1998bn." On May 9, 1998, astronomer Nirko Villi of Furli, Italy spotted "an apparent supernova" in an image obtained on his CCD telescope." The explosion, designated Supernova1998bu, was spotted 60 minutes west of the center of galaxy NGC3368. A previous CCD image "taken on April 21 shows no object at this location. Neither is anything listed in" a star atlas "of galaxy images." (See International Astronomers Union Circulars Number 6886 and 6894 for 1998.) HOAGLAND PRESSES NASA FOR MORE CYDONIA PHOTOS "Whether carved by aliens or sculpted by nature, the famous 'face' on Mars continues to stir up a cosmic controversy." "'This is ancient ruined architecture we're seeing,' insists Richard Hoagland, author of THE MONUMENTS OF MARS and the loudest voice for the theory that aliens built the face." "NASA says Surveyor's pictures provide ample evidence that the mile-long mesa on the Martian plain Cydonia is just a naturally occurring pile of rocks. (The Mars Global) Surveyor's camera is 10 times more powerful than the one aboard the Viking probe, which in 1976 first sent back pictures of the mesa and other strange rock formations." "Hoagland says NASA has photographs confirming his theory but won't release them because they could so shock Earth that civilization might collapse." "'They are seeing things they did not expect. That's why they're not showing all the data,' Hoagland says." "NASA says it has released everything it has on Cydonia and, for that matter, everywhere else on Mars. Officially the agency declines to take a position on the origin of Cydonia. But some scientists privately accuse Hoagland of keeping the controversy alive to push his book, videotapes, posters and speeches." "Scientists on the Surveyor mission say there's a simple explanation for why Cydonia's features appear the way they do. The same natural forces that shaped the rocks there can be found on Earth." "'The area is geologically very interesting,' says Arden Albee, project scientist at the California Institute of Technology. 'It looks like there were a number of layers of material laid down in the planet's formation with different hardnesses. These layers then eroded, so you get craters which are perched up in the air sort of like on a pedestal. We've seen these elsewhere on Mars.'" (Editor's Comment: That buzzsaw sound you hear is Hal Mazursky, the father of Martian geology, spinning in his grave.) "But that assessment is not enough to keep others from joining the fray. Geologists, photography experts and architects are downloading Surveyor's pictures from the Internet and analyzing them." "'Those of us who have studied it are unanimous that it's artificial,' says Tom Van Flandern, an astronomer and former head of celestial mechanics at the U.S. Naval Observatory." "Van Flandern, who runs a Washington, D.C.- based group called Meta Research that investigates celestial anomalies doesn't buy into the theory of a government cover-up or that 'UFO pilots' built monuments on Mars." "But because the Martian region has so many odd patterns and shapes, he puts the odds at a billion to 1 that all of them occurred naturally." "Van Flandern says he hopes NASA can be persuaded to take more photographs of the formation while it can." "NASA would have to race against time. On Sept. 11, Surveyor's orbit will be adjusted so it won't pass over Cydonia every nine days, as it does now. The maneuvers are necessary to lower the spacecraft into a tight circular orbit so it can begin its primary mission of mapping the planet in March 1999." "No more pictures are coming anytime soon. Mars now is in solar conjunction, which means that it is behind the sun as seen from Earth. That makes it hard for controllers to exchange (radio) transmissions with Surveyor. The cameras have been turned off, and they won't be back on until May 26, when the conunction period ends." (Till Mars comes out from behind the sun--J.T.) "At this point the (MOC) camera will take pictures as the science warrants, says Mike Ravine, advanced projects manager at Malin Space Science Systems in San Diego, which built the camera. 'We're not going to be targeting specific things. We already took the picture of the face, and I don't care what Hoagland says, it's a good picture.'" "As Ravine sees it, even if Surveyor takes photos only of Cydonia, it will not be enough to satisfy believers. 'I don't believe these people are going to be happy no matter what we do. The idea that I would play some willing role to suppress information that some alien civilization exists is just ridiculous. There is no conspiracy.'" "To Hoagland, the controversy will be settled only with more data." "'If we don't get it, all we'll have for the next 20 years to argue about are just these three images. That would be a tragedy.'" (See USA Today for May 11, 1998, "Mars' 'face' a pile or rocks? Many insist it doesn't wash" by Paul Hoversten, page 4A) A STONE PYRAMID AT CAHOKIA, ILLINOIS? "Archaeologists have made an astonishing discovery at the Cahokia Mounds State Historic Site: what appears to be a large stone structure beneath the site's biggest earthen mound." "The stone was discovered accidentally Jan. 24 during drilling to construct a water-drainage system within Monks Mound, the largest Indian mound north of Mexico and the largest prehistoric earthen construction in the New World." "'This is astounding,' said William Woods, an archaeologist with Southern Illinois University at Edwardsville, who is leading the investigation of the mystery structure. 'It's so unexpected that it would never have entered your mind before.''" "The stone is at least 32 feet (10 meters) long in one of its dimensions. It is buried about 40 feet below the surface of a terrace on the western side of Monks Mound and well above the mound's bottom. Researchers believe it may be made of cobbles or slabs of limestone or sandstone." "Even if the apparent structure turns out to be no larger than this, it would be a dramatic find. Stone does not occur naturally at Cahokia (which is in the Mississippi River valley about 20 miles (32 kilometers) southeast of St. Louis, Missouri--J.T.) so any stone would have had to be brought by humans. Stone is uncommon at excavations there." "'There's no question this is a unique discovery,' said Melvin Fowler, an archaeologist at the University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee. 'It's totally unexpected.'" "Fowler, reached by telephone in his office Friday, is widely considered the godfather of Cahokia archaeology." "Cahokia Mounds is the largest archaeological site in the United States and has the biggest mounds and the greatest number of mounds anywhere. The site is named for a sub-tribe of Illini Indians who lived there when the French arrived in the 1600s. At its peak around 1100 A.D., the area was covered with a community of 20,000 people." "The mystery was discovered about 10 o'clock on a cold, windy Saturday morning amid snow flurries as workers drilled into the western side of the mound." "Andy Martignoni Jr. and Steve Fulton, both SIUE archaeologists, were on duty at the site when the drill operator reported hitting a rock about 140 feet into the side of the hill. He drilled on, but the drill bit broke after cutting through about 32 feet of rock." "Martignoni and Fulton talked the situation over for a few minutes." "'We talked about a possible drain, a tomb, all kinds of wild stuff,' Martignoni said. Comparing the 'feel' of the drill with countless other operations, the drill operator told them the structure seemed to be made of large stones apparently placed together. That gave the archaeologists more reason to think it might be something other than just a large rock." "Martignoni called Woods, who had just gone to bed after staying up all night writing a report." "'You won't believe this,' Martignoni told him. 'We hit some stone at Monks Mound.'" "Woods and his colleages plan to investigate the finding this summer without harming the mound." Investigative techniques to be used will include seismic waves, drilling and testing for electromagnetic impulses. (See the St. Louis Post-Distpatch for March 9, 1998, "Cahokia mounds finding stuns archeologists--A large stone under the site's biggest mound may be a man-made structure," by William Allen, Post-Dispatch Science Writer. Many thanks to Lou Farrish of UFO NEWSCLIPPING SERVICE for forwarding the news article.) (Editor's Comment: Funny how this story didn't make the wire services. I guess the presence of a stone structure at Cahokia, which knocks North American archaeology for a loop, is only considered "local news" by the media barons.) from the UFO Files... 1952: UFO DOGFIGHT OVER NORTH KOREA On May 26, 1952, a U.S. Air Force F-94C Starfire fighter jet encountered a UFO over North Korea and gave chase. The event was written up by both the pilot and his radar observer (R/O) in Air Intelligence Information Report No. 52-85 and subsequently appeared in Project Blue Book. Here is the first-hand report of Lt. Martin (last name deleted by the USAF), the Starfire's pilot: "While on CAP (combat air patrol--J.T.) sortie from K-13, Bromide informed us of an unknown located at (coordinates) CT 4856 and told us to investigate." At 3:20 a.m., "after descending to 2,500 feet, we saw in the glare of the front line searchlights, a small plane beneath, but were unable to descend due to terrain to determine type." "Bromide told us to drop it and take up a southerly heading. When we turned to this heading, we saw a brilliant object above and in front of us and asked Bromide if we could investigate. With his permission, we made our first pass from north to south within 600 feet, then a succession of passes from cardinal compass points, ranging to within 50 feet, but, because of the brilliancy of the light, we could discern no outline." "On our last pass my Radar Observer looked back and said he thought he saw an object on our tail. I then requested Bromide to vector me for an interception on this new unknown. At this time, the object was still in sight." "When I received my first vector, I was south of the brilliant object and started a starboard (rightward) turn to the intercept vector for the new unidentified. On a northeasterly heading my R/O gave me a (radar) lock-on, overtaking 50 knots, range 7,000 yards, nearly dead ahead and slightly above." "When I closed to 6,000 yards, the object started to pull away, and I threw the afterburner in (airspeed at this time was 250 knots). In a gradual climb, and still with the object nearly centered on the scope, the range increased at a steady rate from 6,000 yards to 26,000 yards in 12 to 15 seconds. At that range we broke lock. No evasive action was observed and no exhaust patterns as might be expected." (See ADVANCED AERIAL DEVICES REPORTED DURING THE KOREAN WAR by Richard F. Haines, LDA Press, Los Altos, California , 1990, pages 40-41.) (Editor's Note: Covering 20,000 yards in 15 seconds means the object was travelling at 1,920 miles per hour. According to Haines, the object "was classified as a possible balloon on the record card" by the U.S. Air Force.) FUN UFO WEBSITES: Readers from the Wolverine State will definitely want to check out the Michigan UFO Experience website at http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/ Quad/1365/ There's a new UFO page devoted to Kansas at http://members.tripod.com/~o_l/main.htm For the latest on crop circles, drop in at Paul Vigay's Independent Research Centre for Unexplained Phenomena (IRCUP). Just go to this URL: http://www.interalpha.net/customer/pvigay/ CCDataBase.html Don't miss our parent site, UFOINFO, for the latest in news and photographs from the world of ufology. Join us at http://ufoinfo.com Back issues of UFO ROUNDUP can be accessed and downloaded at our webpage. Get a "lock-on" at http://ufoinfo.com/roundup Today is St. Madron's Day, and his church in Cornwall, built in the Sixth Century A.D., features its very own on-site Fortean phenomenon. A spring seeps out of the wall, and its waters are reputed to cure skin diseases. That's it for this week. Join us next Sunday for more saucer news from "the paper that goes home-- UFO ROUNDUP." See you then. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1998 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post items from UFO ROUNDUP on their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the news item first appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 01 From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Sun, 17 May 98 11:49:17 PDT Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 13:49:25 -0400 Subject: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 01 > Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 17:43:46 -0400 > From: Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] > Subject: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 01 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > from: > http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/ethbull/ethbull1.html > MAGONIA ETH Bulletin > No. 1, March 1998 > Editor: JOHN HARNEY > Magonia ETH Bulletin has been initiated, as a supplementary > publication to Magonia, in order to examine the evidence that ETH > supporters apparently find so compelling. We hope to examine and > re-examine interesting reports in the hope of eventually reaching > a consensus among intelligent ufologists as to whether or not the > ETH should be taken seriously. > Supporters of the ETH constantly assert that there is evidence in > favour of it, and that it is much simpler and makes fewer > assumptions than other theories which attempt to explain UFO > reports. The only serious alternative to the ETH is the > psychosocial hypothesis (PSH). What ETH supporters do not > realise, however, is that even if a few UFO reports turned out to > be genuine sightings of extraterrestrial space craft, then the > PSH would still be valid, as it would still be the preferred > explanation for the overwhelming majority of reports. Those interested in contrasting points of view are referred to, among other sources, the following: Thomas E. Bullard. "Folkloric Dimensions of the UFO Phenomenon." Journal of UFO Studies 3 (new series, 1991): 1-57. --- "Fresh Air, or Air Castles in Folklore Theories?" JUFOS 4 (new series, 1992): 165-73. Jerome Clark. "Psychosocial Hypothesis." The UFO Book, 492-504, and The UFO Encyclopedia, 2nd Ed: The Phenomenon from the Beginning, 749-59. Michael D. Swords. "Extraterrestrial Hypothesis and Science." The UFO Book, 188-99, and The UFO Encyclopedia, 2nd Ed., 368-73. --- "Science and the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis in Ufology." JUFOS 1 (new series, 1989): 67-102. --- "Modern Biology and the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis." In Walter H. Andrus, Jr., ed. MUFON 1991 International UFO Symposium Proceedings (MUFON, 1991), 51-74. --- "SETI/ETI and UFOs." JUFOS 5 (new series, 1994): 141-56. --- "Does the ETH Make Sense?" International UFO Reporter 17,5 (September/October 1992): 6-8,12. Cheers, Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' From: SGB List 2 <SGBList2@aol.com> [Stephen Bassett] Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 13:09:03 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 14:06:44 -0400 Subject: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' > Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 14:24:22 -0700 > From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: The unpaid UFOlogist > > from: "sally mandella" <s_mandella@hotmail.com> > > >From: "Tim Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> > > >> From: Darren Danks <darren@darrend.demon.co.uk> > > Funny thing, you all call yourselves "researchers" and > > "ufologists". > > On what basis? > > (The postman Santa) responded, after a few moments: > > "Well... It's a living!". > > What's troubling me, is that none of you "researchers" and > > "ufologists" appear to be drawing a salary! > > So what are you doing it for? > > I really want to know. > > - Sequan __________________________________ It is time to retire the term "UFOlogist". While lights in the sky are always of some interest, the field deals with objects which are identified - identified by their being piloted direclty or indirectly by non-human intelligence. When I see a plane land at Washington National Airport, I do not know the name of the pilot, his or her birth place, the destination from which it has come, or the number of passengers. None the less it is not an unidentified object - it is a plane piloted by humans. I suggest a movement toward "extraterrestrial phenomena research(ers)". Every time we use the words "UFOlogy or UFOlogist" we put a lie to the state of the field and implant it in the subconscious of the general public.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Re: Time to retire "UFOlogist, UFOlogy" From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:02:59 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:02:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Time to retire "UFOlogist, UFOlogy" >From: SGB List 2 <SGBList2@aol.com> >Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 13:09:03 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Time to retire "UFOlogist, UFOlogy" >It is time to retire the term "UFOlogist". While lights in the sky are >always of some interest, the field deals with objects which are identified - >identified by their being piloted direclty or indirectly by non-human >intelligence. Before we agree to retire the words, we need to come to consenus on how the words should be spelt (spelled?). English, which we all speak and many of us write, I believe has no other words beginning with more than one capital letter. Spelling these two words with the first three letters capitalised creates pronunciation confusion. Listen to any V.O. reader in UFO-related documentaries. What the hell is a "Yew-Eff-Ologist"? Is it not simpler to say "You-fologist"? Why give the uninitiated another reason to roll their eyes in our general direction? And why are there those among us who insist on using an apostrophe 's' when referring to more than one UFO? As in "UFO's"? ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Battle Lines are Being Drawn From: SGB List 2 <SGBList2@aol.com> Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 13:49:54 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:03:04 -0400 Subject: Battle Lines are Being Drawn In reference to several threads past and currently under development: The forces are being assembled behind two developing battle lines: 1) What are we to do about non-benign aliens come to take away are free will, global control, soul, children, etc. 2) What are we to do about benign aliens come to mentor our apprenticeship to a larger galactic culture. I will not delude myself to think this intellectual and political confrontation is going to be fully congenial, fair or infused with every other product of human failing. It is only to be asked that all parties remember that these lines of battle are in our minds for now and based upon a limited understanding of the whole picture. Try not to burn too many bridges before you get to the river or no one will cross.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 03 From: "Beverly Trout" <btufo@netins.net> Date: Sun, 17 May 98 13:07:08 PDT Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:03:09 -0400 Subject: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 03 > Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 17:44:24 -0400 > From: Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] > Subject: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 03 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > from: > http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/ethbull/ethbull3.html > MAGONIA ETH Bulletin > No. 3, May 1998 > Editor: JOHN HARNEY "Magonia" is SPECIOUS JUNK. Pontificators should try getting out on the front line with "high-profile- in- their-community" multiple witnesses who don't even want their identity known (and therefore have nothing to gain nor lose) by reporting MULTIPLE happenings on ONE NIGHT...2 low-flying silent triangles, plus missing time, plus several low-level approaches to this family in the last eight months....and when an object flies BETWEEN the trees lining their driveway, how do you explain that away?? Give me a break! Where "they" come from, who knows? Maybe ETH, maybe from other dimensions....whatever......it didn't make much difference in 1967 when at our farm at heavy dusk, a silent light moved very slowly within about 500 feet of us and then abruptly changed direction and left the area very fast....and a neighboring farmer reported an incident at his farm that night also.....We were very calm people, carefully watching what was going on in front of us that evening.....where it came from, while an interesting question, does NOT change the fact that it was THERE. Bev Trout, Iowa MUFON State Director ----------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 06:42:33 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:02:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? Dear UpDates, I consider that the highlighted >> text could be considered to be both potentially libelous and defammatory. Tim Matthews. > Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:08:59 -0400 > From: JOHN LUSHMAN <PHUFON@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >From: Rory Lushman <PHUFON@Compuserve.com> > >To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net > > >Subject: Tim Matthews - Ruining ufology > >Date: Wednesday, 15th May 1998, 12.36pm > >Tim and Eric have started up their own magazine, called 'UFO > >Times'. > Dear All, > > Many of you will have obviously noticed my error. The magazine > title Tim and Eric are writing is called "UFO News" or it was the > last time they spoke to me and not the "Times" as I had put. Of > course we all know that "UFO Times" is a magazine produced once a > decade by BUFORA. It will probably be once a Millennium now Dave > has packed it in. Here >>Now here is Tim's chance to get back in and >> resurrect the dying magazine. > It was interesting to read that some people are fed up with all > the back biting going on in ufology. Hey, so are we all but as > some of you know, if we let these people go unchallenged, who > knows what will become of ufology. Here: >> It may seem unpleasant but we >> must flush out the ego trippers, the con artists and people who >> take great pleasure in attacking all for no other apparent reason >> than their research differs from others. > If you are going to challenge people, then do so. We should all > ask each other more questions, this tightens up our research and > may make us go back and have another look at the cases. There are > many out there that can extract the truth from people and have > excellent incite into the fantasy prone. > There are many newsletters up and down the UK that take the > Mickey out of others. This is all done in fun. However when we > see people attack others in such a vindictive way for what they > believe, then they are obviously insecure if they feel threatened > by a difference of opinion. > As I stated in my earlier post, there are many ufologists I > disagree with but I respect them as people. Here: >> Yes there are idiots >> who are making things up and they deserve the full weight of >> ufology to come crashing down on them. And here: >> Of course Tim will respond, by picking out every little argument. >> Every little error but then he is so predictable. I'd even bet a >> fiver on it. He'll copy umpteen people in on his replies, thinking >> they actually care about him. >> Tim's reply will be long, trying to be witty, yet still managing >> to avoid the important issues and avoiding the questions. > Cheers > Rory Lushman. Pendle, Hyndburn UFO Network. (UK)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sunday, 17th May 1998, 14.23 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:56:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Tim Matthew's - Ruining Ufology? Dear All, Let me put a few things straight as regards to Tim's latest offering. >Not to mention the several hundred free copies of my latest >report that have been sent to all who requested it........ On an email to me he quoted 250 people, now its several hundred. This is available should anyone wish to see it. He also says it had several rave reviews, I am still waiting to see these. Now then Tim, let's remind the folks what you said at a meeting at Eric Morris's house, that you made up letters to your own magazine. > Rory's last 'meeting' was attended by 5 people. Who told you that Tim, you're wrong. Hold on a moment. Our group never set out to be large. We have a main group of people who meet once a month. Much of our time is spent writing newsletters and magazines. Does size really matter Tim. Where has it ever been written that PHUFON are a large group. We seek reports, you seek members. Many people who subscribe to the magazine are out of the area and as you know we swap with other groups. Our group is based on cases, not size. We do not go in for heavy publicity drives for membership. We are doing fine Tim, please don't worry about us, we'll get by. Also remember our Chairman has a broken leg, our treasurer's mother has just died and I have been ill, yet despite this we plough on. Sorry for falling for such human frailties. >Jealousy? I have never been, now or in the past jealous of you. Why would I be jealous of someone who has the tact of an out of work clog dancer in a field of tulips. (RH) Obviously, people listening to you at your meetings, will get your view that all ufology revolves mainly around triangles. In a later email from me you will see that I will be asking some searching questions of Tim. I am awaiting an email from Tim that has not arrived yet but when it does I will answer every single point unlike our friend Tim. The best is yet to come. UpDates readers, please be patient, there is more? Rory Lushman (PHUFON)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Re: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' From: ej77@dial.pipex.com (Mike Wootten) Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 19:03:07 GMT Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:25:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' >From: SGB List 2 <SGBList2@aol.com> [Stephen Bassett] >Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 13:09:03 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' >It is time to retire the term "UFOlogist". While lights in the >sky are always of some interest, the field deals with objects >which are identified - identified by their being piloted direclty >or indirectly by non-human intelligence. >When I see a plane land at Washington National Airport, I do not >know the name of the pilot, his or her birth place, the >destination from which it has come, or the number of passengers. >None the less it is not an unidentified object - it is a plane >piloted by humans. >I suggest a movement toward "extraterrestrial phenomena >research(ers)". Every time we use the words "UFOlogy or >UFOlogist" we put a lie to the state of the field and implant it >in the subconscious of the general public. An interesting point but have I missed something? When was it declared that UFOs had an extraterrestrial origin. I know most of the UFO community would love it to be so, but there is no proof that UFOs are ET vehicles. Witness testimony, although compelling, is not enough to prove such a staggering claim. At least UFOlogist as a term is open ended in its purest sense. The term "extraterrestrial phenomena research(ers)" would be enough in itself to lead the witness on and the 'researcher' wouldn't need to open his or her mouth to get the 'truth' THEY want to hear. Read your UFO history. The subject has evolved and mutated over the years. This mutation is not down to ETs but the belief systems of the ufologists themselves. The ET myth is our own elusion. But don't get me wrong. The UFO subject is worthy of investigation and research - but the right kind. The objective kind. BTW considering 90 odd percent of cases turn out to be IFOs, should we all not be called IFOlogists as this is what we investigate most of the time! ATB Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Re: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 15:33:56 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:26:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' >From: SGB List 2 <SGBList2@aol.com> [Stephen Bassett] >Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 13:09:03 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' >It is time to retire the term "UFOlogist". While lights in the >sky are always of some interest, the field deals with objects >which are identified - identified by their being piloted direclty >or indirectly by non-human intelligence. >When I see a plane land at Washington National Airport, I do not >know the name of the pilot, his or her birth place, the >destination from which it has come, or the number of passengers. >None the less it is not an unidentified object - it is a plane >piloted by humans. >I suggest a movement toward "extraterrestrial phenomena >research(ers)". Every time we use the words "UFOlogy or >UFOlogist" we put a lie to the state of the field and implant it >in the subconscious of the general public. Sorry, but I must disagree. There are those of us in the field who have yet to see ANY evidence that what we are dealing with is extraterrestrial in origin. I prefer UAP (unidentified aerial phenomena, a term coined by my old friend Ivan Sanderson) to UFO, and argued for its use years ago, but got nowhere. The simple fact is that we do not know much of anything about these phenomena which people observe. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Alien Alley Gallery From: Jeff Westover <jeff.westover@mailexcite.com> Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 15:47:12 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:52:55 -0400 Subject: Alien Alley Gallery Hello. My name is Jeff Westover. I'm a volunteer sketch artist for Michigan MUFON. I'm submitting the site "Alien Alley", www.alienalley.com a gallery of abductee art, for one of your upcoming email updates. My personal artwork, as well as many other experiencer's art, is located there. I'd also like to sign up for your updates to be sent to this email address. Thanks, Jeff Westover --- "Prejudice will take you farther from the truth than ignorance" Bang Weng Gwang Enter into the "Night Of Light" art gallery at www.crystaltower.com/jeffw
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Re: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' From: Jim Griebel <71541.2124@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 15:37:01 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:30:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' >From: SGB List 2 <SGBList2@aol.com> [Stephen Bassett] >Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 13:09:03 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' >snip> >It is time to retire the term "UFOlogist". While lights in the >sky are always of some interest, the field deals with objects >which are identified - identified by their being piloted direclty >or indirectly by non-human intelligence. I could not possibly disagree more. One of the most fundamental problems of Ufology is the insistence of many on taking the position that the problem has been solved and we're just waiting for officialdom to admit it, and/or for the Great Unwashed to wake up and realize it. In fact the problem hasn't been solved, and hardly anybody is even trying, precisely because of attitudes like this. "When, oh, when, will the government release its Secret Proof?" Never, because it doesn't have any. The government, unable to solve the UFO problem itself, reacted like a bureaucracy and declared that there was no problem to solve, so there. "When, oh, when, will the public wake up and realize The Truth?" When we start presenting UFOs as a genuine problem in need of solution, quit pretending that there's No Other Answer but ET visitation (a theory tenable in 1950, maybe, but much less so today) and stop presenting ourselves as a passel of conspiracy theorists. >I suggest a movement toward "extraterrestrial phenomena >research(ers)". Every time we use the words "UFOlogy or >UFOlogist" we put a lie to the state of the field and implant it >in the subconscious of the general public. Every time we insist that the problem has been solved and start talking about government cover-ups we insure that the field will remain safely marginalized, a state of affairs I'm beginning to think some of us are actively working to perpetuate.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 SETI Finds Something!? From: inovate@my-dejanews.com, Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 00:49:20 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:47:29 -0400 Subject: SETI Finds Something!? Received via "alt.alien.visitors" May 16 at 06.37 local Danish time (GMT + 1 hour). Stig ******* Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 00:44:31 GMT From: inovate@my-dejanews.com Subject: *IMPORTAN* *ATTN*: SETI Finds something!!!!! My apologies for the massive crosspost but due to the nature of this story I think it is warranted. An astronomer friend of mine forwarded me this off of a private mailinglist between SETI reseachers. He said distribute this far and wide before the governement has a chance to squash it. Note: the abbriveation "RA" means Radio Astronomy(er) or Right Accension depending on the contact >>>I *highly* suggest you forward this far and wide before the >government or any kind of cover-up apparatus rolls into place. This >should be the story of the century. I can hardly believe it myself but >it looks like contact has been made: >>>Regards, >>>Larry >>>PS: This should be a very interesting year!! --- begin included text --- Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 20:55:17 -0500 From: Malcolm Mallette To: LieslMFlanagan@compuserve.com, ara-list@cannonexpress.com, steve@estel.uindy.edu, Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers Cc: keeth@in.net, seti@sni.net, "R.J. Fear" Subject: SETI pulses. At the University of Indianapolis we have noticed short pulses of less than a minute duration. The produce very sharp spikes in the output of the RA receiver. They sometimes produce a sharp downward deflection of the RA receiver output, which we suspect is due to strong interference near the passband that desenses the receiver. We suspect that the pulses are interference. In order to negate the possiblity that the pulses are not interference but are from phenomina from someplace other than earth, we would like to run an experiment over the next two weeks. We now ( May 14 ) have our 5 meter dish on the declination of Cygnus A. When an ordered observation is not taking place the default files of a sample every 10 seconds are created. Our daily files are generally an observation file now starting at 4:30 am to catch Cygnus A, Cygnus X and Cygnus B and a default file or files the rest of the time. There are occasionally other files created, such as a 10 samples per second observation of a few minutes that will be run tomorrow to see if we can find the source of the noise on the temperature sensor output. However, unless there is a software crash, there should be constant observation and data around the clock. Please note we use EST on the files. Of course, we cannot see anything during rain except the blackbody radiation from the water droplets. If anyone has a RA system running and can point to the declination of Cygnus A, +40.73 Degrees, it might be possible to compare results. However, we are pointed at the south meridian and, if the other RA system is not at the longitude of Indianpolis, it would have to be pointed a little off the meridian so it would be observing the same RA as we are. If anyone is interested please let us know. Since our data goes on the web automatically, the other RA operator can easily check our results against his. Malcolm Mallette, -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading Search for other documents from or mentioning: inovate | ara-list |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 17 Sarfatti On Warp Drives And Corso's Book From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 00:32:44 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:40:20 -0400 Subject: Sarfatti On Warp Drives And Corso's Book Hi. As a follow up to my last post I hope you will appreciate this "txt" excerpt of a very interesting piece by quantum physicist Jack Sarfatti. The full and mathematically rather complicated "htm" version with working links can be found at http://www.qedcorp.com/Q/Qship.html but this short "news briefing" gives some of the background to Sarfatti's research and John Schnurer's experiments. It is taken from the Columbus Dispatch May 8 1998, URL: http://www.dispatch.com:80/pan/news/hovernws.html Although I already have posted it once, namely on May 9, I take the liberty of doing it again, as the information is essential in this context. Stig ******* Weighty talk about anti-gravity Scientist is working with local company to duplicate experiment May 8, 1998 By Mark D. Somerson Dispatch Staff Reporter He said all objects placed above the spinning disk showed a small drop in weight. Take a controversial Russian scientist, NASA and a high- tech Columbus company and the world just might -- might -- have a good shot at beating gravity. But before anyone fires an apple at Sir Issac Newton, many things have to happen, including determining whether Eugene Podkletnov and his quest for shielding Earth's pull are real. Yesterday, a representative from the National Aeronautics and Space Administration brought Podkletnov to Superconductive Components on the Northwest Side, to talk anti-gravity. "Ten years ago, physicists would have said this stuff is Star Trek -- impossible to do," said Ron Koczor, associate director of the Space Science Laboratory at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Ala. "But if Eugene's work can be duplicated independently, this will change totally how the world does business." In 1992, while working in Finland, Podkletnov said he achieved a 2 percent reduction in the force of gravity by using superconducting materials. He said, in essence, that he had built an anti-gravity machine. In the world of physics, 2 percent is a giant leap. This is the stuff, scientists said yesterday, that Albert Einstein described but couldn't prove -- that objects can be shielded against the waves of gravity that make what goes up come down. But there is a problem. No other scientist has been able to replicate the Russian's results, and Podkletnov has yet to publish his work in a science journal. Although Podkletnov said his idea is valid, he isn't exactly sure why it works. "This is an entirely new field of knowledge," he said. "We can't understand everything. This is physics, chemistry, ceramic technology, electrical engineering and more." Still, NASA was interested enough to bring him to its Marshall Space Flight Center four days ago, and to Columbus to see whether his work can be duplicated. Podkletnov reported that he reduced gravity while a 12-inch superconductive ceramic disk was spinning rapidly inside a container of super-cold liquid nitrogen. He said all objects placed above the spinning disk showed a small drop in weight. Despite many attempts, NASA's Marshall Center had no success in replicating the experiment. So NASA came to Superconductive Components. In February the company was awarded a $70,000 NASA grant to duplicate and someday enlarge the superconducting disks. One day the space agency would like to stack ceramic disks atop one another, freeze and spin them, and watch gravity lose its edge, Koczor said. James Gaines, vice president and general manager, said if Superconductive can duplicate Podkletnov's disk, it could lead to a second NASA award of about $750,000. "We've sold materials to NASA and a number of credible people," Gaines said. "But we've also sold it to every kook in the world. We've had the president of every UFO society in the country buying small versions of this stuff." The biggest ceramic disks that Superconductive has made are 6 inches in diameter. "The degree of difficulty goes up when you make the disks bigger," Gaines said. Still, he said Superconductive is willing to give it a whirl. "When his idea first hit the Internet, hundreds of people were trying to duplicate it," Gaines said. "Now, it's winnowed down to the strong-hearted people with a lot of money." NASA has the money. "I don't know if it's going to work," Gaines said. "But if it does, it's going to be a hoot." ******* Again. The URL is http://www.qedcorp.com/Q/Qship.html and Sarfatti says: (snipped) 4 Our experiment. One of us (John Schnurer) has recently succeeded in partially reproducing the weak gravitational shielding effect... Although the observed weight reduction was large enough to be clearly distinguished from the noise (of the order of 1 % or more), it was detected only in transient form, lasting up to ca. 3 s. This happened because the weight reduction was coincident with the superconducting transition of the HTC disk, which occurred quite rapidly when the disk warmed up over its critical temperature." "An improved setup allowed us to run more than 400 trials with an heavier proof mass (a glass rods bundle -- total weight 63 g), accumulating better statistics. Approximately 10 % of the trials gave positive result, i.e., a clear transient reduction in the weight of the proof mass. This apparently random behavior signals that some of the conditions which are necessary to trigger the effect are not well under control yet. ... if the transition is too quick or too slow with respect to certain criteria, no effect is observed. The duration of the transition, in turn, depends strongly on the thermal conditions of the disk, and the latter can be controlled only with limited accuracy." "the transient reduction in the weight of the proof mass was always coincident with the thermal transition of the YBCO disk from the superconducting to the non=BFsuperconducting state." "First there were the tiny, clear single filament, flexible glasslike wires twisted together through aq kind of gray harness 4.1 Interpretation. "It is crucial for the occurrence of the effect that the supercurrent present in the disk at the transition be very high and that the transition width be small. This requires an excellent HTC ceramic material." Colonel Phillip Corso says that the fuselage of the alleged crashed ET ship is "ceramic". Let's look at a few remarks that Corso makes in Birnes's version in The Day After Roswell. This is not an exhaustive list of all the relevant technical clues scattered throughout Corso's book that do significantly match promising new ideas in physics. I will add to this list later. "Dr. Hermann Oberth suggests we consider the Roswell craft from the New Mexico desert not a spacecraft but a time machine." p.90. "we should consider the EBEs =85 humanoid robots rather than life forms, specifically engineered for long-distance travel through space and time." p.91 Compare this with http://www.hia.com/hia/pcr/parsifal.html. "What did intrigue those who inspected the aircraft once it was shipped to Wright field was the complete absence of any food-preparation facilities. Nor were there any stored foodstuffs on board." p.94 "The bodies of the alleged dead ET's had "no digestive or waste systems" =85 the creatures were enclosed in a one-piece protective covering =85 in which the atoms were aligned so as to provide great tensile strength and flexibility=85" p.95 The ET's are "telepathic". p. 97 "headbands .. embedded =85. were =85 sensors " =85 Perhaps these headband devices comprised the pilot interface of the ship's navigational and propulsion system combined with a long-range communications device =85 lack of any traditional controls and propulsion system in the crashed vehicle =85 I imagined that the keys to understanding what made the craft go and directed its flight lay not only in the craft itself but in the relationship between the pilots and the craft." pp. 98-99 Brendan O Regan wanted me to write a paper on this same idea for Psychoenergetic Systems back in London in 1974! I heard this same stuff from him when he was working with Astronaut Edgar Mitchell with Puthoff and Targ at the Stanford Research Institute. George Koopman from Insgroup, Huntington Beach, CA, a defense contractor who funded PCRG at Esalen, had similar information that he said he got from the "kook desk" when he was in the Army. This sounds like Corso's "nut file". Harold Chipman, a former CIA station chief who funded me overtly in 1985, told me directly that his unit used "remote viewing" successfully in actual covert operations inside the Soviet Union during the Cold War. Chipman said he was responsible for bringing Pat Price to Puthoff and Targ at the Stanford Research Institute. Chipman said his unit also ran mind-control experiments with psycho-active drugs in San Francisco years earlier. Now don't tell me that NASA's "Breakthrough Propellantless Propulsion" group at Lewis in Cleveland promoted by Marc Millis was not motivated by Corso's story or similar stories. "There were no conventional technological explanations for the way the Roswell craft's propulsion system operated. There were no atomic engines, no rockets, no jets, nor any propeller-driven form of thrust." Corso then gives some flaky-sounding attempts at an explanation, which should be reinterpreted in terms of the Modanese-Schnurer theory discussed earlier. Remember that Corso is not a scientist or an engineer, but is a military intelligence officer. "The craft was able to displace gravity through the propagation of a magnetic wave =85." p. 100 "=85 the entire vehicle functioned just like a giant capacitor" p. 101 This does not make sense since the plates of a capacitor attract rather than repel. All of these classical EM field attempts are, of course, na=EFve. EM fields play a role, but the key factor is the giant sentient post-quantum potential Q* that couples to the classical EM fields in the high-temperature nano-engineered superconducting fuselage. There is no way that Corso or All The King's Horses and All The King's Men in Army R&D could have known back then what we know today. It's a new conceptual ball game today in 1998. Brendan O Regan asked me to work on this back in 1974, but I did not have the prerequisite conceptual tools back then. We had to wait for theoretical physics to advance another 25 years. Now we can do it! Too bad, O' Regan, Koopman and Chipman are not alive today to see this. Too bad Generals Mac Arthur and Trudeau are not alive to see this. But Colonel Corso is still alive at 82. Who was it that said, "Lafayette we are here."? "The pilots weren't affected by the tremendous g-forces that build up in the acceleration of conventional aircraft because to aliens inside, it was as if gravity was being folded around the outside of the wave that enveloped the craft. Maybe it was like travelling inside the eye of a hurricane." p. 101 This is a damn good pop description of the Alcubierre warp drive idea. That is, the ship is locally on a slower-than-light weightless timelike geodesic although globally it is going faster-than-light. This is due to the inhomogeneous warping of the metric from bow to stern, which is made possible by the exotic quantum-phase coupling to the metric's dynamical action. According to Modanese and Schnurer, this exotic coupling induces a locally inhomogeneous strong cosmological constant field that gives repulsive anti-gravity like the inflation field at the beginning of the universe. This is a post-quantum sentient controlled mini-inflation effect-- I think (tentatively). "But how did the pilots interface with the wave form they were generating." Replace Corso's use of "wave form" by "giant post-quantum pilot-wave form attached to the superconducting electromagnetic field configuration". "=85 the secret =85 could be found in the single-piece skin-tight coveralls spun around the creatures." This is a nano-engineered material of quantum dots, wires and wells that is a post-quantum computer that couples directly to the Q* of the pilot's momentary material brain configuration as shown in EEG's and other classical neurological signatures. The fuselage is a similarly nano-engineered ceramic-based ultra-high temperature superconductor with enormous post-quantum computing power IMHO. "The vehicle was simply an extension of their own bodies because it was tied into their neurological systems=85" See Nick Herbert's book, Elemental Mind (Dutton) for some background on this. "Where was the engine or the power supply for the craft? =85. engineers marveled at the thin amalgam of the most refined copper and purest silver they had ever seen that covered the ship's underside. The metal was remarkable for its conductivity, as if the entire craft was an electrical circuit offering no resistance to the flow of current." p. 107 Here's your high-temperature nano-engineered superconductor that Modanese needs! It is now obvious. Corso's story is highly likely to be essentially true IMHO! There are more technical details that fit, but that is enough for now. J 5 Energetic balance. It is necessary now to discuss some issues of elementary character -- but important from the practical point of view -- concerning the overall energetic balance of the shielding process. In general energy must be supplied in order to reduce the weight of an object, because the potential gravitational energy of the object has negative sign and is smaller, in absolute value, in the presence of shielding. However, since the field is non=BFconservative, it is certainly wrong to compute the difference in the potential energy of an object between the interior and the exterior of the shielding cylinder by evaluating naively the difference (which turns out to be huge) between an hypothetical ``internal potential'' U ... Which we are most familiar, being produced by very large masses, are relatively insensitive to the presence of light test bodies; thus, it makes sense in that case to speak of a field in the usual meaning: while a body falls down, we do not usually worry about its reaction on the Earth. But in the present case, the interaction between the shielded object and the external source (that is, the system [Bose condensate+external e.m. field], which, by fixing the constraints on the gravitational potential h, produces the shielding), is very important. Let us then ask a provocative question, suggested by the experimental reality: if the superconducting disk is in a room and the shielding effect extends up to the ceiling, should we expect the disk and all the shielding apparatus to feel a back reaction? (And possibly an even stronger one if the ceiling is quite thick or if there are more floors above?) ...Because of this, considerations involving the local energy density of the gravitational field, which can be properly defined for weak fields, are not helpful in the present case. ... The answer is this: since the ceiling is very rigid, the experimental apparatus is not able to exert any work on it and thus does not feel its presence." Sarfatti: So MS do not have the my above idea that the effect is confined to a small boundary layer. Actually if the effective mass of the virtual gravitons is imaginary the propagator oscillates in space rather than decays like in the Yukawa potential. So I may be wrong about the warp being confined to a thin boundary of scale h/|iM|c?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Re: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' From: "Steven Kaeser" <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 19:48:12 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:50:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' >From: SGB List 2 <SGBList2@aol.com> [Stephen Bassett] >Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 13:09:03 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' >It is time to retire the term "UFOlogist". While lights in the >sky are always of some interest, the field deals with objects >which are identified - identified by their being piloted direclty >or indirectly by non-human intelligence. >When I see a plane land at Washington National Airport, I do not >know the name of the pilot, his or her birth place, the >destination from which it has come, or the number of passengers. >None the less it is not an unidentified object - it is a plane >piloted by humans. >I suggest a movement toward "extraterrestrial phenomena >research(ers)". Every time we use the words "UFOlogy or >UFOlogist" we put a lie to the state of the field and implant it >in the subconscious of the general public. Since when does theory, conjecture, belief, and faith constitute "proof" or "positive identification". I find your suggestion somewhat amusing since I've had others indicate that they believe the term UFOlogist refers to a person whose mind is so open that their brains are falling out. They don't want to be associated with the term for that reason. Until those "lights in the sky" are positively identified, or the "(secret) government" comes forward and tells all, I think the term UFO retains validity and thus the term UFOlogist also remains current. This would not be a move toward public acceptance of the ETH, but would lend itself to greater ridicule by those who are already critical of the genre. Steve Kaeser
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 New Discovery in Egypt? From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia] Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 23:06:33 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 09:05:52 -0400 Subject: New Discovery in Egypt? Hi All, 5/17/98 10:30pm Here is an on the fly description of a new discovery in Egypt. A debate took place last week on an Art Bell cruise to Alaska. The people involved were Dannion Brinkley, Art Bell, John Anthony West, Graham Hancock, Zahi Hawass and one other guy. I think his name is Ed Kraft but I doubt that's right. Anyway, here is what Brinkley just said on Art Bell's Dreamland. According to Brinkley, a new Egyptian discovery was announced on the cruise by Hawass. For those who don't know, Hawass is General Director of the Giza Pyramids & Saqqara & Bahria Oasis. No matter what the internet rumors say, Hawass is still in position as director. Bell confirmed this with a phone call to an Egyptian Senator. The Discovery A shaft was found ninety feet below the second pyramid. A new sarcophogas was found. A giant cavern and tunnels were discovered. Right now, the tunnels are underwater. Divers have been sent down on a preliminary search and eventually the water will be pumped out and the search will continue. This is a big deal. Brinkley said that Hawass was very excited when speaking about this new discovery. He said he was almost shaking with excitement. My gut feeling (Totally Unscientific) is that this may be one of the biggest discoveries to come out of Egypt since, well, since I don't know. But I think we should all keep an eye on what happens with this one. Who knows what they will find. Maybe Edgar Cayce will be proven to be right. Cayce died in 1945. Before he died, he predicted that the Hall of Records, which would prove the existence of the lost civilization Atlantis, would be discovered between 1997 and 1998. I guess time will tell if he was right or not. It's really exciting! Joe in Tampa
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 SETI Director: Protocols Should Consider From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 01:12:50 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:49:33 -0400 Subject: SETI Director: Protocols Should Consider Statement by Dr. Peter Schenkel, Executive Director of The SETI League. URL: http://www.setileague.org/editor/travel.htm The SETI League is a private organization which took over when NASA's SETI program was cancelled by the US Government in 1993, cp. this introduction by Dr. Paul Shuch. URL: http://seti1.setileague.org/admin/dirword.htm ******* When the NASA SETI program was cancelled in 1993, the US Government accomplished three things: they reduced their science expenditures by 5=A2 per US citizen per year; they reduced the federal deficit by 0.0006%; and they drew a curtain across the sky, shielding us from possible membership in the cosmic community. My initial reaction was dismay. That gave way to elation a year later, with the founding of The SETI League and the privatization of SETI. Privatized science makes good sense. When governments get involved in large-scale projects, they end up taking twice as long, costing twice as much, and working half as well. We're now doing our modest search on just 1% of NASA's old SETI budget. But we do need your support and participation, to keep that search alive. Whether you wish to operate your own amateur radio telescope, to develop new technology, or to share vicariously in the thrill of discovery, I invite you to join The SETI League. Together, there's no limit to what we might yet accomplish. ******* Here are Dr. Schenkel's thoughts. The links are preceded by asterisks. Stig ******* Should SETI Protocols Consider Interstellar Travel? by Dr. Peter Schenkel *schenkel@ecnet.ec The question is far less academic than it may appear. It has been argued that because of energy requirements, interstellar travel is "Impossible." Also for other intelligences. But most space propulsion specialists disagree. According to a preliminary CIESPAL survey, 80 percent of those interviewed feel confident that we will reach low c velocities in less than two centuries. NASA director Dan Goldin spoke of plans to send a craft to Alpha Centauri in 20 to 25 years. Therefore, to think that civilizations thousands or millions of years more advanced technologically and scientifically than we would not have a spacefaring capability seems extremely farfetched, to put it mildly. Both Carl Sagan and Arthur C. Clarke have emphatically advocated a much more optimistic view. If we have reason to believe that much older intelligences abound in the universe, then we must admit that the probability that such aliens might send spaceships or automatic probes to explore the Galaxy and stray upon our expanding electromagnetic wavefront is neither greater nor smaller than the chance to find "the needle in the haystack" via radioastronomy. Contact could occur either way. While no solid evidence backs the UFO myth, the possibility should not be ruled out that an alien craft or probe may enter our solar system and attempt an encounter with us. The principles of *Protocol Two, elaborated by the IAA SETI Committee, apply only to the scenario of the reception of a verified alien intelligent radio signal. But what if an alien spacecraft really approaches us, as I posit in my forthcoming book "Contact with ETI: Are We Ready For It?", or if we detect a scouting alien probe, as Alan Tough proposes? Since the impact and consequences of this contact scenario would be incomparably greater than in the former case, it seems to be not only legitimate but urgent to formulate a similar Protocol. We need to be prepared for this eventuality with an adequate legal framework binding nations. A first proposal was submitted by me to the Conference on Bioastronomy in Capri in 1996 [Legal Frameworks for Two Contact Scenarios, P. Schenkel, JBIS, July 1997]. It is always better to have a plan for facing a critical emergency situation, than to be caught by it unprepared without any plan. Quite erroneously it has been argued that a Third Protocol would "tarnish" Protocol Two because of its "association with UFOlogy." This allegation has even less merit than the one stated in the beginning. At its root is the fear that discussing the hypothetical case of an alien visit or probe may offend and scare off benevolent funding of SETI. But Carl Sagan postulated that the dangerous avalanche of pseudoscience makes it imperative for science to help the public "distinguish between what SETI stands for and the fraudulent claims of UFOlogy." Neither should we capitulate to the UFO gurus nor subordinate a genuine scientific inquiry to expediency. Hopefully SETI via radioastronomy will hit paydirt. But mankind should be prepared politically, legally, communicationally and psychologically for all Contact scenarios, not just for one. *Home *General *Memb Svcs *Publications *Press *Technical *Internet *Index this Web site copyright =A9 by The SETI League, Inc. last update 2 May 1998
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 New 'MJ-12' Documents? From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 03:03:55 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:52:49 -0400 Subject: New 'MJ-12' Documents? Two new alleged MJ-12 documents have surfaced. Page 1 of the first one bears the header Page 01 of 03 PRESIDENTIAL ORDER (Unnumbered Order) President Ronald Wilson Reagan (Authorized By Proxy) REVISED CHARTER MARS JUPITER - TWELVE COMMITTEE February 14, 1987 dealing with the establishment of a "strategic group of key government personnel called the Mars Jupiter - Twelve Committee (referred to as, MJ-12) with authority to take any action, to the maximum extent possible, in relation to Foreign or Alien data, materials, information, technology, artifacts, and Extraterrestrial Biological Entities (EBE), all hereafter referred to as Foreign Artifacts (FA), which may bear upon the national security of the United States of America." (Quote from a another page with the header ULTRA TOP SECRET MJ-12 EYES ONLY Page 02 of 03 Presidential Order, February 14, 1987 The second released document is a secret autopsy report and part of it bears the title (TS--MAJIC\EO) OPERATION MAJESTIC-12 PRELIMINARY ANALYTICAL REPORT ATTACHMENT D. PART B. Section 3. Preliminary Autopsy of Extraterrestrial Biological Entity(s) 5 JULY 1947 dealing with, as you already will have guessed by the date, the alleged EBE's found at Roswell. For further information go to the latter part of the webpage at http://www.sightings.com/ufo/triangUS.htm Stig
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Time Capsule - Where do you fit in? From: KAnder6444 <KAnder6444@aol.com> Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 21:50:02 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 09:01:18 -0400 Subject: Time Capsule - Where do you fit in? To All, I personally can get brain overload with everything I read about UFOs and its related phenonema. The who, what, where and why of it all. Recognize any of these? A. The "Buffs". The UFO enthusiast who buys all available material merely to read it and "keep up" with the subject. B. The Reseacher. Being occupied with the information from old books, magazines, and newspapers in order to fill the gaps of information relating to UFO's which predate 1947! (Ok, I confess, I do this!) C. Research-Writer. "Newcomers" who burst upon the UFO scene when the activity becomes increased. This individual uses the works of "others" upon which to base his writings, seldom doing a personal investigation themselves. An opportuntist. They bill themselves as the "foremost authority on UFOs". (hmmmm... think I know some of these) D. True Scientific Student. Involved not only in cases with history but with current events. This person is not a researcher but a searcher and therefore is considered a student. E. All Around Authority. Has a wide diversity of opinions about the UFO problem. Studies every case which comes in hand. Puts more emphasis on the suppression of UFO information by the U.S. government, specifically the Air Force. There may be evidence that indicate that a secrecy does exist. Some feel that the government is surpressing this information since it is unacceptable to the general public. F. The "Fanzines". A group that whose sole purpose is to propagate gossip and create confusion. This small group is a noisy bunch of hobbyist who, lacking contacts must rely on sensational UFO-connected subjects for attention. Controversy and competition exists between the above. Most are created of "egoism". IS THIS NEW INFORMATION???? Nah. Things have not changed in 30 years!! This was written by Coral and Jim Lorenzen in 1969! So why, after all this time are we confronted with the same ole, same ole in 1998! Same thing, different year! No, things do not always change! Cheers, Kathleen Andersen MUFON - State Section Director Seattle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 01 From: " Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:48:21 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:11:25 -0400 Subject: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 01 >From: Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] >Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 17:43:46 -0400 >Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 11:29:27 -0400 >Subject: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 01 JC: I, for one, am all for having intelligent discussions concerning high profile UFO cases of the past & present. >from: >http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/ethbull/ethbull1.html >MAGONIA ETH Bulletin >No. 1, March 1998 >Editor: JOHN HARNEY >EDITORIAL >....snip....We hope to examine and >re-examine interesting reports in the hope of eventually reaching >a consensus among intelligent ufologists as to whether or not the >ETH should be taken seriously. JC: I am happy to see anyone (group or otherwise) willing to dig into the "details" of specific cases in the UFO field. I certainly look forward to participating in these discussions. >---------------------------------------------------------------- >THE ETH AND ITS PROPONENTS >ETH and PSH >....snip....What ETH supporters do not >realise, however, is that even if a few UFO reports turned out to >be genuine sightings of extraterrestrial space craft, then the >PSH would still be valid, as it would still be the preferred >explanation for the overwhelming majority of reports. JC: Yes, what they fail to realize is; What difference would it make? If even one UFO report were decided by this group to be a "genuine sighting" it would open a Pandora's box none of us can ever close. If one visit becomes an agreed fact (all those light years to get here) everyone of us would have to wonder: How many times before or since have we been visited? Who or how many different visitors have we had? Are we being observed? To what degree? Were Barney & Betty Hill and at least some" other "contactees" actually telling the truth? Are people actually being abducted? Will we bring back samples of flora and fauna when we travel to other far-away exotic locales? Of course. (Moon and Mars rocks were only a start) With established "actual visiting space craft," the myriad possibilities become mind boggling. Would visiting "visitors" from afar fly all the way here and just leave; or would it make more sense, if they found us interesting enough, that they might set up a base(s) where they can observe us more easily? Are we too primitive for them? The list becomes endless. Also, to the person who actually saw the "agreed upon genuine space craft," this becomes a _very_ personal issue. To that individual, if he is quizzical by nature, it is no longer just a theory or discussion by the brain; it becomes visceral as well. ....snip.... >Brain scanning JC: This is all well and good as long as we don't use it as an excuse in cases we cannot solve by any other means to just claim the person/people were hallucinating. Suppose the person who the machine says is "prone to hallucinations" has a real experience? Then what? What percentage of the human race does this eliminate? How many of us will be able to testify in a court of law after being tested by this machine and its interpreters? >Hard evidence >PSH proponents do not concern themselves with hard evidence . >What hard evidence? In 50 years of ufology none has yet come to >hand. All we ever get are holes in the ground, bits of slag and >fuzzy photographs. Some of the so-called scientific >investigations of such evidence have been pathetically inadequate >or incompetent, as has been devastatingly revealed by serious UFO >researchers such as Maillot (3) and Simpson. (4) JC: And who's fault is this? Mainstream science turned its back on the topic when it accepted both the pronouncements of the USAF (Project Blue Book) and the conclusions of the Condon Colorado Report as gospel, thus leaving any possible study to a basically grass roots movement. It never seriously studied the report for itself nor listened to other science groups who did. >....snip....Others put their faith in radar-visual >sightings which, if taken at face value, seem to indicate the >operation of craft whose performance vastly exceeds that of any >earthly machines. Experts on aviation and radar should be warned >that such folk do not take kindly to complicated, boring and >irritatingly rational explanations of such incidents. JC: Here we have an interesting but unsubstantiated generalization. You see, at least a few of us on this list have been waiting for someone, anyone, to do just that and have it reviewed by other scientists of equal or superior merit. To this date there hasn't been much of this type debate forthcoming. We welcome any discussion the majority on this list find within the bounds of science and common sense. >The ETH in Britain >....snip....One very prolific British UFO writer who manages to upset >many of these folk is Jenny Randles. ....snip.... They are >particularly unhappy about a certain basic law of ufology which >she has derived from her extensive readings and investigations. >This law states: The more witnesses there are, the less likely >it's really a UFO. (5) JC: Absolutely! This makes great sense as noted in a recent court case where many people were originally on a Long Island, NY. USA train, a gunman came in, began firing upon the witnesses, and they later bring the gunman to court, convict him on the testimony of the witnesses and sentence him because everyone testified to same. He claimed it wasn't him. Horrible system, eh what? Probably had the wrong guy. Perhaps if we only had him on radar, he might have gotten off. Or, how about a case where a group of people see several men attempt to rob them, couldn't agree on their exact descriptions because the events happened so fast and were so traumatic, thereby momentarily numbing their normally decent observational skills which were split amongst the various robbers. I'm sure it would make sense to conclude there probably was no actual robbery attempt. Of course it doesn't matter that the robbers' car left tire impressions on the grass where it was parked or they left footprints when they ran back to escape, or that several of the victims have nightmares for months afterwards, reliving the entire incident. >The Oz Factor >The importance of the law derived by Jenny Randles cannot be >overestimated. It could provide the key to the whole UFO mystery. JC: Or, it might not. Generalizations sometimes fail when confronted with specifics. >We are thus now closer to knowing what to look for when seeking >UFO reports that tend to lend support to the ETH. They must be >multiple witness reports, preferably backed by some form of >physical evidence. There should be no serious doubt that the >reported events actually took place. The only arguments should >concern the matter of the correct explanation, based on agreed >evidence and testimony. JC: On this, I have to say I personally agree. >---------------------------------------------------------------- >TRINIDADE ISLAND JC: Please forgive my interjection, I believe that island is Trindade. >The Trinidade Island sighting of 16 January 1958 should provide a >good case for consideration by ETH proponents. Four reasonably >good photographs of a mysterious Saturn-shaped flying object >taken from the deck of the Brazilian Navy vessel Almirante >Saldanha and plenty of witnesses. Jerome Clark's verdict on it >is: >Given the number of witnesses, the results of photoanalyses both >military and civilian, and the need for debunkers to reinvent the >incident to explain it, it seems most unlikely that the Trinidade >photographs were hoaxed. (6) >Well, what are the agreed facts of this case? I was astonished to >discover, on re-examining the literature on this incident that >some of the most basic and presumably easily ascertainable facts >are very much in dispute. For example, how many witnesses were >there? Well, it depends on whether you are a believer or a >sceptic. And if you are a sceptic it depends whether you believe >the photographs were faked or that they are genuine and that they >portray an aircraft or some natural phenomenon. JC: or possibly a reflection of the planet Saturn. >Dr Menzel >originally thought the photographs showed an aircraft flying >through cloud, but eventually claimed that they were faked. JC: and his proof for this? >Now we come to the really crazy bit. When we ask the obvious >question: How many witnesses were there? - what is the answer? >Again, it depends entirely on whether you are a believer or a >sceptic. According to Coral Lorenzen: Rio de Janeiro's Ultima >Hora on February 21 reported that at least a hundred individuals >had witnessed the sighting of the object ... (7) The US Naval >Attachi in Rio de Janeiro, evidently a dedicated sceptic, wrote >in his report to Project Blue Book: >The Assistant Naval Attachi ... had an opportunity to visit >aboard [the Almirante Saldanha]. The commanding officer ... had >not seen the object and was noncommittal. The executive officer >also had not seen it but, arriving shortly thereafter, had formed >the opinion that those on deck had seen it. JC: and why would he do this unless they had? >The captain reported >that his secretary, a LCDR, had seen it but this officer when >personally questioned avoided discussing the matter. (8) JC: Well, say we ignore the newspaper and focus on the US Naval "Attachi," the Captain and his secretary. The Captain says he saw it. If his secretary didn't see it, all he had to say was "I didn't see it." Would you refuse to tell someone if you _didn't_ see it? Interesting, eh? >Sceptics insist that there were no witnesses, despite assertions >from believers that their testimonies were published in Brazilian >newspapers. JC: So, were they published or not? Is there any record for that date or didn't they keep microfilm accounts of the papers there back then? and again, what about the executive officers conclusion and the Captain's assertion concerning his secretary? Are we to assume the former was wrong and the Captain made this up? How can this be? Now think about this, why would the Captain say this? It seems rather obvious to me that people did see it. Whether they would admit it to the newspapers, that is another story, especially when we realize who the people were. > If there really were many witnesses, then the >photographs are hardly likely to be fakes. If there were no >witnesses, it is difficult to see how people could be fooled by a >photographer who purported to take pictures of something which >nobody else noticed from the crowded deck of a ship. >Conclusions JC: I believe it is premature to draw a conclusion concerning the witnesses until you have answered the question I asked above? If they were published, we would appear to have found for the claimants; if they were not published we may or may not have found for the skeptics. At least some if not most of the possible witnesses aboard were scientists. Would _you_ risk your career as a scientist participating in world-wide IGY experiments to say you saw this, even if you did? We know how scientists are: if you don't have something solid or the numbers and data to prove it, it doesn't exist. Who would know better than another scientist. Hynek, J. Allen "The UFO Experience" Henry Regnery Company 1972, hardcover Chapter 1 The Laughter of Science p.9 =B6 2 "the most coherent and articulate UFO reports come from people who have not given much thought to the subject and generally who are surprised and shocked by their experience." p.9 =B6 4 "some of the very best reports have come from scientifically trained people..... These reports are usually rarely published however, because the person usually requests anonymity." Respectfully, Jerry Cohen Author: Oberg/Cooper rebuttals Website: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/ UFOmind: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/c/cohen/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Time to retire 'Ufologist, Ufology' From: Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 23:21:03 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:00:08 -0400 Subject: Time to retire 'Ufologist, Ufology' With the Compliments of the Duke of Mendoza: >Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:02:59 -0400 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Time to retire "UFOlogist, UFOlogy" >And why are there those among us who insist on using an >apostrophe 's' when referring to more than one UFO? As in >"UFO's"? Colonials, foreign natives & so on may like to know that we in the Mother Country refer to this as "the greengrocer's genitive". For one always sees cards announcing the prices of "potato's", "parnip's", "cabbage's" &c in these establishments. "Potato's *what*?" I always ask myself, fearing that those unfortunate enough not to have a decent walled kitchen garden on their estates may be handing over their hard-earned (or stolen) cash for a few pounds of weevils, blight, or other wriggly things, not the decent tasty carbohydrates, vitamins & minerals they think they are purchasing. Obviously there are veggie merchants on the List, too, as I see some people referring, still more strangely, to a uniquely genitive or perhaps unknowingly doppelgangered character called "Tim Matthew's". At any rate I hope no one is trying to suggest that Tim is some kind of plurality of vegetable, which would be both most unfair and unacceptably ad-hominem. Besides, he has shown himself to be a very meaty fellow. Those pressing questions aside, idiosyncratic orthography is hardly the weirdest thing about Steve Bassett's proposal is it? Can we see some unequivocal proof of the ETs' presence, please? No? Really? Sure about that? Mmff. I thought not. Yrs &c Procumbent D. Molehill aka Pea Brooke's Myth
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Phenomenon # 8 - Part 1 From: Bob Tidwell <bob.t@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:25:12 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:02:11 -0400 Subject: Phenomenon # 8 - Part 1 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> PHENOMENON E-Mail Newsletter A Forum for the # 8 - Part 1 Strangeness Around us May 17, 1998 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> In This Issue Part 1 *** Editor's Notes *** Help & Information Needed *** From Our MUFON Editor *** The Alabama Files ~ Monsters, UFOs & Mutilations Part 2 *** The Grays - and their Long Journey Home *** Newsletter Guidelines <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ------------------- Quote of the Week ------------------- Man is more powerful than he is intelligent; and he interprets self-interest as something entailing short-term advantage rather than long-term survival. Isaac Asimov <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ---------------- Editor's Notes ---------------- Welcome to issue number 8. In this issue I'm going to give you a break from the normal articles that I've been presenting here, and instead would like to offer a story called "The Grays - and their Long Journey Home." The purpose of this story is to present one of the many possibilities concerning alien life-forms that could be here on our planet now. Other views will follow in future issues, hopefully yours also. Please accept this story in the context that it was written, and I hope that you'll enjoy reading it as much as I enjoyed writing it. ~~~ Bob ~~~ <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ***************************** Help and Information Needed ***************************** I'm looking for anyone that has any information concerning U.S. Air Force Radar sites that were in operation until about the mid 1980s. These, now closed, Aircraft Control & Warning (AC&W) sites were replaced by the currently used airborne systems(AWACS). I'm looking for persons that were stationed at one of these sites, or even anyone that has any knowledge of one of these sites. Just knowing the location of any of these sites would be very helpful. You can contact me at: bob.t@mindspring.com. Thanks, ~~~ Bob ~~~ <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ************************ From Our MUFON Editor ************************ Hi Gang! Nancy Lawson here -- Alabama MUFON State Section Director and Field Investigator, Birmingham, Alabama.=A0 It's time for another "MUFON Moment" brought to you by "Our Gang", MUFON Birmingham. Our last meeting was held, as usual, at the Pioneer Cafeteria, Sun. Apr. 26, 1998 at 1:00P.=A0 We had a full house and a full program to boot.=A0Here's how it went: After a few announcements and a brief business report we moved into a discussion of an on-going investigating I've been conducting -- a Sighting that occurred in the Hueytown/Warrior River area, Mar.30,'98. Sad but curiously interesting is the fact that the Sighting occurred only 9 days prior to the devastating tornadoes that ripped through the same area.=A0(Another phenomenon in itself.=A0 As some of you may already know, it is not uncommon to have a Sighting reported just prior to a catastophe of the "earth nature" type, ie: earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, etc.).=A0I asked everyone there, and am asking any of you readers here, to let me know if you saw anything in or near that area during March or April of this year, in particular,or any other time for that matter.=A0 You can contact me through Bob Tidwell's email address; bob.t@mindspring.com. (Of course, I would love to hear from you on any Sightings or Strangeness that might have occurred in the Alabama area.) Next we moved into the discussion of the "ET Presence" that seems prevalent in our nation and around the world.=A0I presented the evidence I've acquired over the years--in a very brief way--then offered, per audio tape recordings, Robert Dean's appearance on the Art Bell program in which he discloses his knowledge of their presnce through his many years of military service with NATO. His "Above Top Secret" clearnace in this aspect of the Service made him privy to all sorts of interesting phenomena.=A0 Needless to say, the info can "blow your mind" if you're not aware of such information. Our group seemed to love it.=A0There was much interaction from them on this subject.=A0Nearly everyone there had info to add which made our get-together special and unique, as always.=A0 =A0 =A0 Our MUFON Birmingham "gang" is really growing in membership and visitors.=A0We have several that drive from as far away as Northport, near Tuscaloosa, and Pell City, Al., as well as, many who drive from the "far away 'burbs".=A0Of course, let's not forget the "inner-city" folk!!!!!!=A0 They're always in attendance. We will continue with the "ET Presence" subject during our next meeting: Sun. May 24,'98, Pioneer Cafeteria. Meeting: promptly at 2:00p, and social hour between 1:00p and 2:00p.=A0I will present other experts' evidence in this field with the aid of more audio recordings and, possibly, a video of such info, as well as, many little "nuggets" of other interesting stuff!!! WE'D LOVE TO HAVE YOU JOIN US. Our meetings are free and open to the public.=A0(Lunch, however, is on you.=A0The cafeteria offers a delightful menu.)=A0So join us at our next meeting and expect to leave with alot to ponder and think on.=A0(That's, Sun. May 24, '98) 'Til we meet again,=A0this is Nancy signing off. May the Force be with you!!! <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ------------------- The Alabama Files ------------------- Monsters. UFOs & Mutilations ******************************** A few weeks ago, I had an opportunity to start investigating a case that has several elements of strangeness involved. I had received word that several members of a family in Walker County, about 45 miles to the Northwest of Birmingham, were experiencing some very unusual events. It started about two months ago when the lady of the house noticed a large shadow passing overhead. Upon looking out of her livingroom window, she observed an extremely large bird. But this was no ordinary bird, as it was the size of a small airplane. She described it as having an extremely long neck and beak, with large wings that pointed down slightly at the ends. This bird didn't appear to have any feathers, just a dark leather-like skin. She watched, fascinated, as this gigantic bird glided down the hill, over some trees, and out of sight. She immediately picked up the phone and called her sister, who lives a short distance away, shouting "a pterodactyl just flew over my house." Needless to say, her sister had a few comments concerning her present mental condition. After getting the same response from yet another relative, she decided to just keep her observation to herself. Then, a couple of weeks later, while sitting on her front porch (a common country practice in this area) with her brother, they noticed a couple of strange lights just above the far horizon. They sit outside a good bit, and hadn't noticed these lights before. The next evening these lights were still there. They thought that maybe a couple of new radio or cellular towers had been erected. However, when they decided to look at these lights through binoculars, they saw that these lights were not standing still, which is why they appeared to be so strange at a distance. They were observed to be moving up and down, or back and forth at times. They continued to observe these strange lights off and on for a couple of weeks. The final act of strangeness occurred shortly afterwards when they discovered that their two peahens had disappeared from a totally enclosed pen. The male peacock was still inside, unhurt, but the female peahens were gone. Their feathers were lying just outside of the pen, with no blood on them, or on the ground. As search of the area showed no sign of animal tracks or additional feathers other than the ones that were found just outside of the pen. There was also no signs of forced entry anywhere on the sides or top of the pen. Their house is on top of the highest hill in this secluded rural setting, and no hang gliders or sailplanes have ever been seen in this area. I know that you're thinking "Bob, are you really taking these people seriously?" The answer to that is yes. For you see, I know the character of these folks very well, as they happen to be my Aunt and Uncle. I'll let you know if anything else strange occurs in this area. ~~~ Bob ~~~ <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ~~~ End of Part 1 ~~~ <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Phenomenon # 8 - Part 2 From: Bob Tidwell <bob.t@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:30:50 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:02:43 -0400 Subject: Phenomenon # 8 - Part 2 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> PHENOMENON E-Mail Newsletter A Forum for the # 8 - Part 2 Strangeness Around us May 17, 1998 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Part 2 *** The Grays - and their Long Journey Home *** Newsletter Guidelines <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ***************************************** The Grays - and their Long Journey Home ***************************************** Of all the different types of aliens, we seem to be fascinated the most by the Grays. In fact, the bald oval head with the large almond-shaped eyes and pointed chin has become the standard icon for our concept of all aliens, even to the point of becoming cute to look at. The alien head now adorns everything from key chains to t-shirts, and is used in all kinds of advertising, regardless of whether or not it has anything at all to do with real aliens or ETs. But who is this small gray being, and where do they come from? Are they visitors from other worlds in the cosmos, genetic creations, other dimensional beings, time travelers, etc... ? The first thing that immediately stands out is the fact that even with their strange alien look, they are still roughly humanoid in general appearance. This resemblance alone opens the door to all kinds of questions regarding their ancestry. So, let's take a look at several possible theories as to their possible origins, and see where it leads. Are the Grays actual extraterrestrial beings from another planet in our universe? They certainly do have an alien look to them, and they do fly around in what we call flying saucers. But, how could a being from another planet light years away have so many human physical characteristics? They may be small, gray and baldheaded, but they are still humanoid. Their eyes are big and almond shaped, but they're still eyes, and they're in the right spot on the head. Come to think of it, the mouth, nose and ears are also in the correct places. They have a torso, with two arms, having hands with fingers, and they also have two legs with feet. The clothes may look a little strange, for now that is, but they do generally wear clothes. I thought alien beings from another planet were supposed to have round fat bodies with bug eyes, or am I thinking about Rodney Dangerfield? (I know that I don't usually pick on anyone, but he doesn't get any respect anyway :-) There have been reports of beings that do look like they came from another planet, but the Grays are too similar to us. There have been sightings of Grays that are much taller than the more common shorter ones, but the Japanese are also getting taller, now that we've put Mc Donalds over there. (Um, maybe I've come up with a possible answer for the cattle mutilations.) Maybe the Grays are from another dimension, one in which lighting conditions are the reason for the grayish skin color and large eyes. But, then again, they still look too humanoid. They could be an engineered species, bred to pilot the saucers, and to conduct medical examinations. The Grays do seem to be orientated to those specific tasks, and the reported lack of reproductive organs doesn't seem to indicate a self-replicating race, other than by artificial means. (No wonder they never smile) An engineered race would also serve to hide the actual masters from us, even though these masters have been observed on occasion, and appear to look human like us, or resemble a being that may have an ancestry going back to the dinosaurs. If this is true, then any of the above could be correct, since genetic material from humans could have been used in the process. If the Grays are actually alien life forms from another world, then it would seem to indicate a grand master plan within the Cosmos, a plan that requires a humanoid body in order to allow a "brain" to evolve. After all, can we have intelligent thought without a physical brain? This idea alone would take an entire article to explore. But, for the time being, I would like to suggest a more down-to-earth answer to the riddle of the Grays. They are simply, us, but from an Earth in the distant future. Before you say "Bob, you've really lost it on this one", let's look at the facts. By evolutionary laws, the human race is changing. Women are not breast-feeding their babies as much any more, and they're not having as many children either, on a worldwide average. This is slowly resulting in smaller breasts, and the hourglass figure is giving way to more straighter lines. If you don't believe this, just look at the women in old movies and compare them to the women of today. Also, look at the women in the old paintings of the Masters. I'm not saying that this is a bad change, and most men agree that the women of today are much more pleasant to look at. (I wonder if I got through that one without getting too many women upset with me? Besides, it's the women that are improving, not the men. I can see the emails now! :-) Anyway, the only thing that I'm pointing out here is that the human race is evolving. Another change is with our concept of sexuality itself. We humans think of sex more as a sport than as a means of continuing the human race. In fact, at some point in our future, our genetics will have reached the point where procreation is no longer necessary. The pain of childbirth would no longer have to be endured in order to have children. The genetics of the man and woman would be combined in a birthing institution, and a few months later, Junior is carried home. The problem with this is that the DNA in our cells carry a genetic memory that is directly influenced by it's environment, namely us. Men no longer would have to impregnate women. Women would no longer need men to have children. In fact, they wouldn't even be going through the birth process at all. Just give a little bit of their DNA to the lab, and let artificial nature take it's course. Of course, the new DNA begins to know this, DNA being as smart as it is, and starts to make changes of it's own. One of the changes would be that sexual attraction is no longer necessary in order to insure that the human race continues. Humans would eventually turn to other, more intellectual, forms of entertainment to amuse themselves. If being attractive to the opposite sex is no longer necessary, our genetics would start to change our appearance to reflect our new life styles. Our heads would grow bigger, because of the increased brain activity resulting from not having to think about sex all the time, and since being pleasant to look at wouldn't matter any longer, why have all of that hair to worry about. Our diet would most certainly change. With our increasing population, it's getting harder to provide as much meat in our diet. The new forms of reduced protein foods might result in smaller humans, which could also be affected by reduced amounts of human labor, which is constantly being replaced, or made easier, by robot machines. A change that is taking place already because of our diet, is that we don't need our molar teeth any longer, because of the softer, easier to chew foods. Dentists will tell you that our jaws are now too short for us to keep our wisdom teeth any more. That why we have to have them pulled. Sooner or later, they will genetically go away altogether. Since we no longer have as many craftsmen in the World, turning out intricate works with fine detail, our little fingers are no longer needed. The same can be said of our little toes, being kept inside shoes most of the time, and not needed for support. What will the atmosphere be like in our future. We're cutting down the rain forests at an alarming rate, and allowing various chemicals to permeate the air. Our internal organs would have to slowly adjust to these new conditions, and our eyes would evolve into a more efficient means of seeing through the haze, and protecting the pupils from the harsher, more acid atmosphere. Our skins would develop a new color, with a harder, more protective, thickness. What the human body could evolve into might include: * A small slightly built torso with an enlarged brain, housed within an oversized head. * Large eyes with protective membranes to better see through the altered atmosphere. * A small slit-like mouth ,probably without teeth, or at least having only a boney ridge. * Skin with a more leathery outer layer, and maybe having a dull gray color. * Slender arms and legs with only four fingers and toes. Beginning to sound familiar? But the worst problem is still to come. All of those years of non-breeding could eventually result in disastrous results for this new human race of the future, one that could mean the end of the human race altogether. Our genetic memory could eventually forget how to pass on the reproductive gene. This would mean that there could be a problem with using DNA cells from their current donors. Of course there could be a supply of Human DNA cells safely stored away some place, but that would eventually be exhausted. Also, serious health or genetic problems could arise, because of not having fresh new DNA cells in the gene pool any more. (In much the same way as each new generation of a photocopied document loses integrity.) At this point, the scientists and/or leaders of this future time would attempt to find a more permanent solution to this disastrous problem. An obvious solution would be to find a new source of reproductive DNA, one that would once again contain the building blocks that remember how to create a new life with healthy genes. But where would this genetic material come from? Mankind could, by this time, have spread themselves far out into space, starting various colonies on different worlds. A search would be initiated to catalog these different offshoots of humanity, in hopes of finding a fresh new source of genetic material. But alas, these sources are just as old as each other. Certain races could carry genes that would be fatal to other races, and still others may have reached the point to where their DNA is no longer comparable to any other race. A little time may have been bought, but the problem is still there, and is not going away. Genetic Engineers would eventually realize that the only solution to this monumental problem would be to find a fresh supply of uncorrupted genetic material that is common to all of the different new races of mankind. The trouble is that this fresh genetic source only exists back in their distant past, on the home world of humanity - Earth. Their scientists would then have the task of finding a means of traveling back in time, in order to collect this fresh genetic material. Time travel though, could be just as disastrous to a future human race as the current problem. What would happen if enough changes were made in just the right situations in the past that could cause this future race to never have existed in the first place. Great debates would probably ensue over this monumental risk. But non-the-less, in the end they would all likely be in agreement that this would be the only solution, but great caution would have to followed. After a time travel device is developed, tested and perfected (a project that could take a very long time in itself), the next decision would be as to which time period to return to. The first trips would be short ones, to gather information about ancient humanity during different periods of development. Chances are that the time travelers would have very little idea as to what they could expect to find in the distant past. These future generations could be from thousands of years into the future, and records could have been lost for a great variety of reasons. We could face the same problems today, if we were going back say ten to twenty thousand years. Gathering information from the past would present a great challenge, due to the fact that their current physical appearance would make them immediately noticed. They might not even have a precise idea as to what we really would look like. Our appearance could be as strange to them as they are to us. In order to obtain the best possible match to their future race, the genetic material would have to be collected from a previous time period that was the closest to their own time, but was still only in the early stages of the changes yet to come, say the 20th century, give or take a century. The first target would possibly be in a time period that their records indicated was not technologically advanced enough to detect their time ships. This could be a hit or miss situation, so they would probably pop into Earth orbit at different time periods, monitor electronic signals from Earth, and pop back to analyze the newly collected data. These first attempts might even be automated devices, with an occupied craft to follow later. Another method would be to send back an automated probe, and if it didn't detect any electronic signals, to simply wait until we had reached a certain level of communications technology before sending back a time reference beacon. Once they had managed to find a time in which their time ships would not be detected in Earth orbit, the surface would have to be visited in order to actually start collecting genetic material. The time travelers would be astounded to discover vast unbelievable amounts of fresh water, and a great abundance of plant and animal life (Which could also be of great importance to a depleted future Earth). The first reports back to the scientists of the future would most likely not be believed, until they also had journeyed back to this wondrous world of the past. Plant and water samples would be the easiest to collect undetected, but sooner or later human genetic material would also be required for research and testing. Since great care with altering future time is a great concern, these encounters would be planned to blend with the customs, myths and legends of a time period that didn't have mass communication abilities, say the last two thousand years or so, excluding maybe our last one-hundred years. These encounters with our future selves would become the stories of abduction by the wee people of legends; elves, gnomes, leprechauns and such. These stories would tell of being taken to fairy houses, and of sexual encounters with these unusual beings. Usually, the hapless victims would return to fine that hours, weeks, or even months and years had passed, but to them seemed like only minutes or hours. >From these time periods, the Grays could send small probes into the near future on reconnaissance missions. These probes would be known to us as foo fighters, ghost lights, and other small unidentified glowing orbs of light. The grays would then follow in their larger craft, disguised to resemble the aircraft of that period, or in the next few years to come. We would assume that we were seeing new inventions, or the latest secret military aircraft. Their geneticists could by this time have devised a means of sending temporary genetic human constructs to the surface when needed. These constructs, which we have given the name "men in black" (MIB), would be necessary to keep certain individuals, those who's accounts could seriously alter the course of future time, from accurately presenting their stories. These individuals would of course wonder why they were visited by these MIB, when they had so far kept their sightings to themselves, and had talked to no one else. A major setback would come when they encountered an unusual recent Earth technology - Radar. Several time ships could be lost before they realized that these pulsed beams of microwave energy were interfering with their anti-gravity drives. A few mishaps could be dealt with by simply going back in time, but time travel is full of strange paradoxes, and it could be that not all of these loses could be altered by this method. In fact, it could force the Grays to do something that they had hoped would not be necessary, actually make formal contact with certain Governments of this Earth. They would provide certain items of technology, those that we would probably soon develop anyway on our own, providing that these Governments would agree not to disclose the official existence of the Grays. Having the use of time travel, the Grays would also have the advantage of looking ahead into our future years, to insure that they would never be fully revealed. They might even discover a future global catastrophe, one that could serve to erase their gifts of technology to the near future generations. There would still remain one very major problem though. Having long ago given up personally bringing new life into their world, and requiring the comfort of having a mate close to them, they would slowly have lost their greatest treasure, the ability to love someone or something. Their first attempts at artificially replicating crossbreed newborns from our genetic material would encounter a very serious problem. Our DNA would still carry over into these newborns the need to have a mother figure to provide spiritual nourishment in the form of loving and caring, in order for their emotions to properly develop during the early years of life. The Grays, having acquired the use of telepathic communications long ago, could also have further resulted in the masking of certain emotions; other than fear, which all species need in order to survive. The first crossbreeds could possibly develop into mentally and/or emotionally deficient beings. This could result in the Earth donor mothers being taken aboard their ships, and being telepathically scanned in an attempt to discover what necessary conditioning was being passed on to these children. The Grays might even have the donor mothers hold the children, in an attempt to pass along this required emotional conditioning. This problem would most definitely have to be solved in order for Human genetic material to be incorporated into the generations of the far future, a problem that might take a very long time. ---------------------------------------------- So, if you're ever riding along on a lonely country road, late at night, and a strange craft lands nearby with two small gray beings, instead of saying "take me to your leader", they might just ask "brother can you lend a gene?" ~~~ Bob ~~~ <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ----------------------- Newsletter Guidelines ----------------------- PHENOMENON is a FREE newsletter To add or remove yourself from our mailing list, please send an E-Mail to: bob.t@mindspring.com. The purpose of this free newsletter is to provide a forum for information and discussion concerning the strangeness that surrounds us in our daily lives. Articles, comments and/or suggestions are welcome. Articles may include, but are not limited to: ... UFOs & Ghost Lights ... The Paranormal ... New World Order ... Conspiracies ... Time Travel ... Hidden History ... etc... We welcome: ... Feature Articles ... Analysis, Commentary or Updates ... Your Own Report of Strange Phenomena All contributions to PHENOMENON E-Mail Newsletter must be in English. We reserved the right to edit for language, grammar and space. Anonymity will be provided if requested. Segments or single quotes from articles may be reprinted in other newsletters, bulletin boards or web sites, with permission from the Editor, as long as credit is given to PHENOMENON E-Mail Newsletter and, if applies, to the original source. Thanks ~~~ Bob ~~~ <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> (C) Bob Tidwell, 1998 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ~~~ End ~~~ <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' From: XianneKei <XianneKei@aol.com> [Rebecca Keith] Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 00:01:53 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:34:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' > From: SGB List 2 <SGBList2@aol.com> [Stephen Bassett] > Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 13:09:03 EDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' > It is time to retire the term "UFOlogist". While lights in the > sky are always of some interest, the field deals with objects > which are identified - identified by their being piloted direclty > or indirectly by non-human intelligence. OH puh-leeze! You have proof of this? Proof that will settle the issue once and for all? The _only_ reason, I would like to to see the term ufologist and ufology retired is because those mere terms imply something that is not there, IMO. Some folks (including me, at one time) think that someone calling themselves a ufologist might actually _know_ what they are talking about. The only reason I can see for retiring the terms would be dissociate from the some of the people who make claims that are not supported by evidence. A lot of baggage comes with the words ufology and ufologist. I don't like carrying around all that baggage. [...] > I suggest a movement toward "extraterrestrial phenomena > research(ers)". Every time we use the words "UFOlogy or > UFOlogist" we put a lie to the state of the field and implant it > in the subconscious of the general public. You are absolutely right -- every time I have referred to myself as being interested in UFOs to the general public, these people actually think I believe UFOs are ET craft, that the alien autopsy is real and that ET creates crop circles and so on. That's the baggage I'd like to be rid of. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Sun, 17 May 98 23:20:01 PDT Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:40:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' > From: ej77@dial.pipex.com (Mike Wootten) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' > Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 19:03:07 GMT > >From: SGB List 2 <SGBList2@aol.com> [Stephen Bassett] > >Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 13:09:03 EDT > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' > An interesting point but have I missed something? When was it > declared that UFOs had an extraterrestrial origin. I know most of > the UFO community would love it to be so, but there is no proof > that UFOs are ET vehicles. > Witness testimony, although compelling, is not enough to prove > such a staggering claim. > At least UFOlogist as a term is open ended in its purest sense. > The term "extraterrestrial phenomena research(ers)" would be > enough in itself to lead the witness on and the 'researcher' > wouldn't need to open his or her mouth to get the 'truth' THEY > want to hear. > Read your UFO history. The subject has evolved and mutated over > the years. This mutation is not down to ETs but the belief > systems of the ufologists themselves. The ET myth is our own > elusion. I would modestly ask that "UFOlogist" be retired in favor of "ufologist." I would also insist that "elusion" be properly used; I think our friend above means "illusion," though "elusion" turns out to be (as I learned via dictionary consultation) an intriguingly suggestive noun. (And let's drop "belief system" from our respective vocabularies; "belief" or "beliefs" will do, and moreover, they're far less pretentious.) The principal virtue of "ufology" and "ufologist" is that neither term is theory-driven, unless one is some sort of debunking purist who insists, absurdly in my judgment, that nothing passing through our planet's atmosphere is anomalously (as opposed to ignorantly) uncatalogued. Cordially, Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' From: authority@webtv.net (Doc Barry in Phoenix) Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 20:43:01 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:30:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' >From: SGB List 2 <SGBList2@aol.com> [Stephen Bassett] >Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 13:09:03 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' Stop using the term, "UFO"? Give me a break. Who is not familiar with that term? Talk to school children, they'll know what UFO signifies and perhaps will tell you about other initials, like MIB. Because no artifact or alien has been produced we should discount evidence that is not substantive? Eyewitness testimony, radar reports, photos, videos, and changed earth from alleged landing sites, are just more bilge from the "UFO/ET/Cover-up" conspiracy crowd? Really? FOIA request replies have proven UFO info has been covered up by more than one government agency. Nothing could be covered up for that long? Is that so? The Tuskeegee Experiment was covered up for how many decades? Food laced with active radiation fed to children, according to the Dept. of Energy, was covered up for how many decades? The screwballs who think every strange light in the sky is a spacecraft filled with space aliens have not earned the title of Ufologist. Those who worship the "scientific method", and would discount the use of a term which very well describes what is still being investigated, should get their scientific necks out of the sand. Put Ufology in files with Creationism, or the Flat Earth Society, but the terms "UFO" and "Ufology" are here to stay. LIVE WITH IT BABY, IT IS PART OF OUR VOCABULARY, and rightfully so. == Doc
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' From: SGB List 2 <SGBList2@aol.com> [Stephen Bassett] Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 02:30:27 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:53:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' >Subj: UFO UpDate: Re: Time to retire "UFOlogist, UFOlogy" >Date: 98-05-17 22:41:48 EDT >From: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >To: updates@globalserve.net > >From: SGB List 2 <SGBList2@aol.com> > >Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 13:09:03 EDT > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Time to retire "UFOlogist, UFOlogy" > >It is time to retire the term "UFOlogist". While lights in the sky are > >always of some interest, the field deals with objects which are identified > >identified by their being piloted direclty or indirectly by non-human > >intelligence. > Before we agree to retire the words, we need to come to consenus > on how the words should be spelt (spelled?). > English, which we all speak and many of us write, I believe has > no other words beginning with more than one capital letter. > Spelling these two words with the first three letters capitalised > creates pronunciation confusion. Listen to any V.O. reader in > UFO-related documentaries. What the hell is a "Yew-Eff-Ologist"? > Is it not simpler to say "You-fologist"? > Why give the uninitiated another reason to roll their eyes in our > general direction? > And why are there those among us who insist on using an > apostrophe 's' when referring to more than one UFO? As in > "UFO's"? > ebk ________ I have done my part by keeping the apostrophe out of "UFOs" in my work. Perhaps emboldened by this small success, I am now foolishly trying to get rid of the term altogether, with or without caps, and replace it with extraterrestrial phenomena. Of course, I am well aware that this could lead to clarity, a quality which to this particular field of study would be much like breathing pure oxygen - leading to god knows what kind of explosive result. SB
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Re: Ray Santilli V Bob Kiviat From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com> [Robert Gates] Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 01:00:47 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:44:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Ray Santilli V Bob Kiviat > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Ray Santilli V Bob Kiviat > Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 16:05:43 -0400 > >From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com> > >Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 00:41:40 EDT > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Ray Santilli V Bob Kiviat > [...] > >Remember it has been Ray Santilli that has failed to provide > >proof of his claims. Ray who claimed that we was going to make a > >few frames of the film available to be sent to Kodak. Ray who > >has spun web after web until finally when you pressure Ray, he > >defaults to "Well Volker owns...blah blah. Then you call Volker > >and get no response. Its called the Ray Volker vicious circle of > >story telling. > [...] > Robert, > Ray might well be in a catch 22 situation: <snip> > 3. For Santilli to own a copyright on the AA film necessarily > implies that it is a work of creation from his part, on which he > can claim ownership. True > 4. WHERE and HOW he got the copyright seem to be good questions. > 5. The next thing would to get a copy of the original legal > document which should hopefully be of public domain. Ah but in the Santilli world we would get this tale: "Well everybody the film is copyrighted, but its not and their is no documentation on file with a copyright office. With that clarification I will provide copys of the document, I promise..." Then when you lean on Ray, he gives the default answer: "Well I was planning to give everybody copies of all the documents BUT you will have to talk to Volker Spielburg as he is part of the venture too." Then the phone call to Volker: Hello, Volker, Yes, I would like to talk to you about documentation on the autopsey film... CLICK and dial tone. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' From: SGB List 2 <SGBList2@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 02:52:42 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:54:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' > From: ej77@dial.pipex.com (Mike Wootten) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' > Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 19:03:07 GMT > >From: SGB List 2 <SGBList2@aol.com> [Stephen Bassett] > >Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 13:09:03 EDT > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' > >It is time to retire the term "UFOlogist". While lights in the > >sky are always of some interest, the field deals with objects > >which are identified - identified by their being piloted direclty > >or indirectly by non-human intelligence. <snip> > An interesting point but have I missed something? When was it > declared that UFOs had an extraterrestrial origin. I know most of > the UFO community would love it to be so, but there is no proof > that UFOs are ET vehicles. <snip> > Mike ___________________________ The extraterrestrial origin of some craft in our midst has been proven for some time. What is at issue now is the inability of individuals to accept the verdict based on the level of resistance they possess to the implications. The amount of proof available is so massive, many refuse to examine it because, frankly, they don't have the time. When I am sometimes asked how I arrived at this conclusion, in the absence of the two or three weeks of time it would take to inform the questioner - time I or this person usually does not have or will not invest since his or her mind is not open to the information in any event - I simply respond "by paying attention." Things have improved. Whereas the Catholic Church, during an earlier paradigm change, would simply have you taken away and slaughtered, the pardigmatically challenged in modern times simply repeat over and over and over again there is no proof, until you go away and leave them alone. The research field to which this list is dedicated has been chasing its tail for 50 years. After a half-decade of that, it is hardly surprising that, overwhelmed by terminal nausea and permanent dizziness, the field is not yet aware it caught its tail some time ago and needs to go off somewhere and lie down for awhile. SB
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Hancock & West on Hawass From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:48:13 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 12:46:35 -0400 Subject: Hancock & West on Hawass Via: N6VV@my-dejanews.com Statement From John Anthony West And Graham Hancock Dated 17 May 1998 We're releasing this statement following our participation in a one-week conference on the mysteries of ancient Egypt. The conference was held on board the MS Statendam cruising from Vancouver to Alaska and back. The other speakers at the conference were Dr Zahi Hawass, Director of the Giza Plateau, Dr E.C. Krup, Director of the Griffiths Observatory, Los Angeles, and Dannion Brinkley, author and explorer of the afterlife. The conference was organised by Visions Travel Ltd., of Los Angeles and moderated by radio talk show host Art Bell. During the course of spirited debate a posting on the internet was brought to our attention by Art Bell. The posting had been written by Larry Hunter and Amargi Hillier and asserted falsely that Dr Zahi Hawass had been fired from his post by the Egyptian government. We are aware that this posting is one of many by Mr Hunter and his friend Boris Said which have misrepresented the truth concerning Dr Hawass and indeed slandered him. As is widely known we ourselves have had serious differences with Dr Hawass over many years. However over the past six months we have been engaged in a civil and increasingly amiable dialogue with Dr Hawass. This dialogue has convinced us that our differences with him, however acrimoniously expressed, were largely due to mutual misperceptions. We therefore feel it incumbent on ourselves to set the record straight and to assure all who are interested in these matters that the statements made by Hunter & Co are utterly false, misleading and malicious and, most important of all, are backed by no evidence whatsoever. We would like to state, for the record, that while our disagreements with Dr Hawass over matters Egyptological still continue, we are in the process of exploring them with him in depth with the kind of civil and courteous debate that are appropriate for science and scholarship. We are now absolutely convinced that the precious monuments of the Giza plateau could not be in better hands than those of Dr Hawass. We have seen him at work. We have seen his passion and genuine love for the pyramids and the Sphinx. And we have seen that above all else he is determined to ensure the preservation of these monuments for the future. There are no conspiracies. There are no hidden finds. There is no skulduggery. And we challenge Larry Hunter and his colleagues to produce one shred of documentable evidence that will support their assertions. We have met and talked at length to Mr Hunter, who has frequently attempted to engage us in his agenda. We have reviewed his claims to have special access to and knowledge of the monuments of Giza and found these claims to be utterly without substance. We fully respect Larry Hunter's right to access the internet. We fully support everybody's right to access the internet. But in our considered opinion Larry Hunter's postings are the Egyptological equivalent of child pronography and are a great disservice to all of us who genuinely seek to unravel the mysteries of Egypt. Signed John Anthony West and Graham Hancock posted by Lew Jenkins lew@book.net -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 00:08:14 GMT From: N6VV@my-dejanews.com Subject: Statement form Conference RE; Dr. Hawass Message-ID: <6jnu5f$2i4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Chat with Dr. John Brandenburg From: Yvonne Hedenland <vonni_h@email.msn.com> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:08:37 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 12:52:49 -0400 Subject: Chat with Dr. John Brandenburg Join the UFO Forum and special guest, Dr. John Brandenburg, Plasma Physicist, and co-author of SPSR's "The Case for the Face", on Tuesday May 19, at 6pm PT. Brandenburg's research into the question of life on Mars has offered up some of the most intriguing questions in determining the answer to the riddle of Cydonia. This research is not only based on the Viking images or the preliminary findings of the Mars Global Surveyor. It is derived from years of research regarding mars meteorites, Pathfinder & Sojourner findings, and a constant vigilance and searching for answers within the realms of science. This chat is available at http://forums.msn.com/UFO The Briefing Room chat can also be accessed by any IRC client. The chat server name is publicchat.msn.com and the room or channel name is #briefing. The Netshow Audio Interview with Dr. Brandenburg is available now at http://forums.msn.com/UFO
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Ideas, Viewpoints And Positive Discussion From: John Cussen <john.cussen@cmgplc.com> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:22:50 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:05:17 -0400 Subject: Ideas, Viewpoints And Positive Discussion Dear All, I am a new subscriber to this list and extend a warm greeting to all other subscribers and contributors alike. :) It is particularly refreshing to be able to voice one's ideas and opinions without fear of ridicule by others, no matter how naiive those ideas and opinions might appear to some people. It is difficult enough to discuss topics such as this with people who *do* have empathy, let alone with those who have a sceptical viewpoint. There is no definitive answer or concrete proof to the questions we all ask, not yet. But we are all, to some extent, searching for those answers whether it is joining a discussion list such as this, reading a book on the subject, attending a lecture, or are one of the many people who devote much of their free time (and often for free) trying to find out the answers for themselves and for others. We all disagree on some aspects of ufology, even over the terminology itself - disagreement, in it's most positive form, highlights conflicting viewpoints which might each have valid basis. Attempting to force a viewpoint usually results in something else being lost. We can probably all recount personal situations where our disagreement with someone's viewpoint was in danger of becoming a personal conflict. It usually blinds us to everything that person says - and that is usually when the one nugget of valuable information is overlooked and lost or simply supressed. We want others to show us tolerance for our beliefs, just as they want the same in return. Sometimes it's extremely hard to do. What each of us feels to be important may mean nothing to someone else, but what we each feel _is_ important and we all have the right to change our minds when the occasion to do so arises. Disagreement is, of course, healthy if it allows us space to move to an altered viewpoint. Confrontation doesn't afford the same luxury. Please excuse me for speaking out of turn if that is what I have done. I'm just concerned that some disagreements are rapidly become personal and is potentially damaging the reputations of those involved when played out in public within a list such as this, when we should be aiming to help one another with a common goal. If we can't tolerate each other, it's harder to expect it from other people. I am glad to have become a subscriber of this list and look forward to all future postings. Warmest regards to all, John ------------------------------- John Cussen Consultant - Advanced Technology CMG UK Limited, London Phone: +44 (0)171 592 4610 Email: john.cussen@cmgplc.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' From: Stanton T. Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:10:24 -0300 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 12:39:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' >Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:02:59 -0400 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Time to retire "UFOlogist, UFOlogy" UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > >From: SGB List 2 <SGBList2@aol.com> > >Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 13:09:03 EDT > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Time to retire "UFOlogist, UFOlogy" > >It is time to retire the term "UFOlogist". While lights in the sky > >are always of some interest, the field deals with objects which are > >identified - identified by their being piloted direclty or > >indirectly by non-human intelligence. > Before we agree to retire the words, we need to come to consenus > on how the words should be spelt (spelled?). > English, which we all speak and many of us write, I believe has > no other words beginning with more than one capital letter. > Spelling these two words with the first three letters capitalised > creates pronunciation confusion. Listen to any V.O. reader in > UFO-related documentaries. What the hell is a "Yew-Eff-Ologist"? > Is it not simpler to say "You-fologist"? <snip> > ebk Right on. Think of biologist, geologist, ufologist. STF
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 15:52:12 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 12:57:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' > From: ej77@dial.pipex.com (Mike Wootten) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' > Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 19:03:07 GMT > >From: SGB List 2 <SGBList2@aol.com> [Stephen Bassett] > >Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 13:09:03 EDT > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' > >It is time to retire the term "UFOlogist". While lights in the > >sky are always of some interest, the field deals with objects > >which are identified - identified by their being piloted direclty > >or indirectly by non-human intelligence. <snip> > BTW considering 90 odd percent of cases turn out to be IFOs, > should we all not be called IFOlogists as this is what we > investigate most of the time! > ATB > Mike Sure Mike...Please guys, I'm getting rather tired of this kind of comment...IFOlogists...give me a break! Why don't you look to the 10 percent we can't explain instead of keep going on and on about the cases any RESEARCHER has thrown aside anyway. But maybe that's why I think there's nothing wrong with terms like UFO-researcher or ufologist, the only problem is that everybody can call himself one, regardless wether they have done some serious lookin' in to the subject or not. Peace, Andy Denne (A.U.R.A)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:31:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:43:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' >From: SGB List 2 <SGBList2@aol.com> [Stephen Bassett] >Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 13:09:03 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' >The extraterrestrial origin of some craft in our midst has been >proven for some time. What is at issue now is the inability of >individuals to accept the verdict based on the level of >resistance they possess to the implications. >The amount of proof available is so massive, many refuse to >examine it because, frankly, they don't have the time. At the risk of being contentious here, where is this proof? I have not seen one independent laboratory report on the analysis of materials recovered from so-called crash sites that indicates they are of anything but terrestrial origin. Witness testimony is not 'proof' either. In my own experience, I have found individual witnesses to be sincere, but in many cases this testimony is contradicted by the statements of other witnesses, and sometimes, upon reinterview, by the original witness him/herself. Which means that testimony is very useful, but is too empirically unreliable to be considered proof. Like many on this list, I would be willing to consider your hypothesis--I try to be open-minded but critical (as we all should be), but I don't see "massive proof." And please don't draw conclusions about the inability of people like myself to deal with the implications of proof of the extraterrestrial nature of UFOs -- I'd be exhilarated if this were proven. But the fact is, there really is not one shred of evidence (but plenty of stories) that UFOs are extraterrestrial in nature. I would agree that there are a number independently-corroborated (via radar, etc.) incidents. But to jump from the observation of an anomalous phenomenon to the conclusion that it is extraterrestrial in nature is quite a logical stretch. Brian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.ALPcom.it> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 12:31:55 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:45:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' >From: SGB List 2 <SGBList2@aol.com> [Stephen Bassett] >Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 13:09:03 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' >It is time to retire the term "UFOlogist". >I suggest a movement toward "extraterrestrial phenomena >research(ers)". Every time we use the words "UFOlogy or >UFOlogist" we put a lie to the state of the field and implant it >in the subconscious of the general public. Great idea, Stephen! Thanks for your sincere and straightforward comment. Why don't you all, who already (believe that you) KNOW what UFOs are, leave the field of ufology and call yourselves something else? Yes, please leave us poor ignorant students of the UFO phenomena alone in our quest for an explanation you've apparently already found, to your satisfaction! I, for one, would appreciate it very much. Regards Edoardo Russo Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici CISU, Casella postale 82, 10100 Torino - tel 011-3290279 - fax 011-545033 http://www.arpnet.it/~ufo e-mail: edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Re: Time Capsule - Where do you fit in? From: "Donnie W. Shevlin" <dshevlin@primary.net> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 12:09:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:51:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Time Capsule - Where do you fit in? > From: KAnder6444 <KAnder6444@aol.com> [Kathleen Andersen] > Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 21:50:02 EDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Time Capsule - Where do you fit in? > To All, > I personally can get brain overload with everything I read about > UFOs and its related phenonema. The who, what, where and why of > it all. Recognize any of these? <snip> > Cheers, > Kathleen Andersen > MUFON - State Section Director > Seattle Ok, but where do I fit in? I don't collect material on UFOs. I do some research on the side to substantiate what I read and hear from those in the field. I am surely not an authority on the subject, nor do I propagate rumors or gossip to create confusion. So, where do I fit in. I must, what I would call, a 'realist'. Hear my explanation. - I know for a fact that we live on a world that is only the size of an atom (we are smaller than that) in comparison to the universe. You would be an extremely narrow minded person to believe that there is not more out there. - Man's missions to space have only taken us to the moon and no further. So physical proof of what lies past our Earth and moon is unavailable. Which leaves me with allot of unanswered questions about our own solar system, let alone deep space. Unmanned missions have inadequate data collection equipment. I can't rely on information from equipment that's already twenty years behind when it finally reaches it's destination. - We are now discovering that many stars(suns) have their own worlds. A new and exciting fact. The likelihood of what occurred on this planet (dino's then humans) may be occurring else where in the universe many times over is fascinating. There is then a distinct possibility that older civilizations than our own maybe be out there. And with that older civilization comes their technology. Our own history shows that technology grows exponentially. So, just for the moment, imagine that a race may only be 10,000 years older than us but could be 1000 times more advance. (Just speculative, don't hold me to fact) - Our government lies. This is a fact. They have lied in the past about a variety of subjects. Case in point, the story of Roswell has been told so many times by our government, that I'm not sure if they even know the truth. How many times have they released the supposed TRUTH about Roswell, four or five times over the last fifty years? (rhetorical). - It is a fact that thousands of people, of sanity, have seen things (ufos) over the course of hundreds of documented years. I say that because history is only documented so far. Whose to say what may have been going on here well before it's documentation. A lot of those "sightings" can be reasoned away. Many can not. - ALL OF KNOWN SCIENCE AND MATHEMATICS IS MAN MADE. That's a fact. We created mathematics and science to serve our own purpose. IS IT THE REAL THING WHEN APPLIED TO ALL OF THE UNIVERSE. I think not. Specifically, Time is what I have a problem with. WE created the idea of time, by the rotation of our world in relationship to our sun. We use time as the bases of most upper level mathematics in relationship to space. To believe that, time as we created it applies to the entire universe is not justifiable. So, most of our mathematics and science may work well for us but may not reflect all the principle characteristics of the universe. - And last, to shorten this a bit, man is discovering almost daily that we have been wrong in the past about the past and will undoubtedly be wrong in the future about the past. That is fact. The dinosaurs were not lumbering goliaths, the sphinx has water wear and not wind wear and there may have been even older civilizations they we first knew. So what comes from our researchers about our history may only be a trickle of what is really the real truth. So with all the above and what I know that I could add, where do I fit in? I'm not saying that Placions(fictious name) are coming to take over the Earth, that secret underground labs are taking our children for genetic research or even that ET wants to call home. I'm just looking at what is real, our world, as we know it, is still well beyond us and that what is out in the universe, is even more breath taking than we could ever imagine. And that is reality. Donald W. Shevlin EBK, Sorry for the long dissertation. It must be just the simple ramblings of a mad man.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 12:39:55 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:46:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' >From: SGB List 2 <SGBList2@aol.com> >Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 02:52:42 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' >The extraterrestrial origin of some craft in our midst has been >proven for some time. What is at issue now is the inability of >individuals to accept the verdict based on the level of >resistance they possess to the implications. > Hogwash! Nothing about origins has been proved! We don't even have proof we are dealing with solid objects! Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:08:15 +0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:40:22 -0400 Subject: Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 03:03:55 +0200 >Subject: New MJ-12 Documents >Two new alleged MJ-12 documents have surfaced. Page 1 of the >first one bears the header >Page 01 of 03 >PRESIDENTIAL ORDER (Unnumbered Order) President Ronald Wilson Reagan >(Authorized By Proxy) >REVISED CHARTER MARS JUPITER - TWELVE COMMITTEE >February 14, 1987 [etc., etc.] Stig, I just got on the site to get more info on the alleged "new documents". One can read the following (capital letters are mine): "ALIEN RAPTURE IS NOT JUST ANOTHER NOVEL about little green men and bug-eyed monsters. It is written in the style of Michael Crichton's The Sphere, Sidney Sheldon's The Doomsday Conspiracy and the smash hit "Independence Day." The amazing difference is that Alien Rapture - The Chosen is filled with incredible facts, inside information and PLAUSIBLE DETAILS of who controls the UFO conspiracy. Alien Rapture explains how the government conspiracy is accomplished, why it exists, and what the MJ-12 committee's plans for our future are." [...] "Alien Rapture is WRITTEN AS A SCIENCE-FICTION NOVEL to protect individuals who have unwittingly been manipulated by the government and those who for security reasons can not come forward. The facts, revealed for the first time, are startling." Now, how in the world can you say: >Two new alleged MJ-12 documents have surfaced. &$#^*&*%&$& ??? Serge Salvaille
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Re: New Discovery in Egypt From: John <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 16:39:48 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 22:24:14 -0400 Subject: Re: New Discovery in Egypt >From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia] >Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 23:06:33 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: New Discovery in Egypt >Hi All, >5/17/98 10:30pm >Here is an on the fly description of a new discovery in Egypt. <snip> >Brinkley said that Hawass was very excited when speaking about >this new discovery. He said he was almost shaking with >excitement. >Joe in Tampa ============= Hi Tampa Joe, hi All, Joe, correct me if I'm wrong. From What I understand from all that I've read isn't Zahi Hawass one of _the_ major impediments to the (public) exploration of the Giza site. ex: The chamber under the paws of the Sphinx and the new shaft that was found in the Great Pyramid. If Zahi is all excited he must have a big personal stake in the discovery. Otherwise, all he's been so far is a fly in the ointment. Peace, John Velez ___________________________________________________________________________ AIC INTERACTIVE CONFERENCE WWW.IF-AIC.COM jvif@spacelab.net ___________________________________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? From: ufotruth@ix.netcom.com [William Hand] Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 15:02:08 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 22:33:50 -0400 Subject: Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: New 'MJ-12' Documents? >Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:08:15 +0600 Serge Salvaille, There ARE NEW MJ12 documents! The authors of the book "ALIEN RAPTURE" are Edgar Rothschild Fouche' and Brad Steiger. Edgar Rothschild Fouche' had been in many black projects and classified projects for many years. After retiring from working for various government agencies he made a group of friends who had also worked in various black projects. They got together and talked several times about UFO/ET information, advanced technology, and black projects. He wanted to write a book about all of this information so he approached certain people in the military/government and asked them if he could write a book about it. They said he could but the book would have to be FICTION, he could not release any classified information that HE knew about personally, and the NAMES of the individuals would have to be changed. So, to both prevent him from going to prison and to protect everyone who gave him information he wrote the book in a fiction format. (Just so you know I gathered all of this information while listening to Sightings on the Radio the other night in which he was interviewed). He recieved the MJ12 documents from one of his friends whose uncle (if I remember correctly) who was high up in the NSA, gave to him. So for your information these ARE NEW MJ-12 documents and there is a LOT OF VALID information in the book! If you would listen to Edgar Rothschild Fouche' interview on Sightings on the Radio (he is also going to be interviewed again this week on Sightings on the Radio. Maybe tonight) you would realize that these ARE new MJ-12 documents!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They MIGHT be real and they MIGHT be hoaxed just like all the other MJ-12 documents but they are not part of the science fiction work "Alien Rapture". But they are JUST as credible as all of the other MJ12 documents that people like Stanton Friendman have been researching! SO we have NEW MJ12 documents. What are everyones opinion about them? Best Regards, William [sightings.com has the exclusivity to this story and graphics -- ebk]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' From: "David Baker" <davbak@globalnet.co.uk> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 20:45:18 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 21:04:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' >Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 12:39:55 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' >>From: SGB List 2 <SGBList2@aol.com> >>Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 02:52:42 EDT >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' >>The extraterrestrial origin of some craft in our midst has been >>proven for some time. What is at issue now is the inability of >>individuals to accept the verdict based on the level of >>resistance they possess to the implications. >Hogwash! Nothing about origins has been proved! We don't even >have proof we are dealing with solid objects! >Bob I can't really understand all the wailing and gnashing of teeth concerning the term 'ufologist'....as many have said, it's a term that has settled into the conciousness of the masses for far too long to change now, and surely it's as good a term as any. But "UFO Community"....now there IS a bad term. Oh, and how about "UFO Buffs"?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 eSufo - Martian bacteria/UFO movies From: "David Watanabe ( www.exosci.com )" <davew@exosci.com> Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 02:44:07 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 22:37:15 -0400 Subject: eSufo - Martian bacteria/UFO movies exoScience UFO * 5/10/98 * exosci.com/ufo * NEW EVIDENCE CASTS DOUBT ON MARTIAN BACTERIA LIFE There is new evidence which has come up regarding the ever-popular ALH 84001 Martian meteorite. The new evidence seems to cast doubt on the claims that Mars-based bacteria inhabited the rock at some time in the past -- however, the evidence is not so strong as to completely discredit the pro-life argument. The new evidence has to do with the presence of certain iron sulfide compounds in the rock. These sulfides were used as pro-life evidence, since they resembled sulfides which are created by certain Earth-bound bacteria. However, further study of these Earthlings has shown that the in fact don't create the ALH 84001 sulfide, and in fact would prevent the formation of such sulfide. Is this a valid argument? Are we assuming far too much about the typicality of life in the universe? Earth-biases may have no place in exobiology, but then again they may. Ultimately it seems that we have a great need of such information about exobiological life...and that's what drives the debate over ALH 84001. The entire article can be read at: http://exosci.com/news/58.html * EXOSCIENCE MOVIES hmm...The UFO movies section of the website has been inoperable for quite some time. I lost my mirror server, and for months stewed over the ultimate loss of hard drive space on my server required for the movies. However, I just noticed that in fact the movies have been sitting on my server the entire time! So I've fixed all the links, and the UFO movies are back up!! So if you've been trying to get to them, they are available. Now that that's out of the way, I will endeavor to expand the section significantly in the weeks to follow: http://exosci.com/ufo/movies/ David Watanabe davew@exosci.com ____________________________________________________ exoScience UFO http://exosci.com/ufo/ **************************************************** To SUBSCRIBE / UNSUBSCRIBE, send email to: davew@exosci.com with either "subscribe ufo" or "unsubscribe ufo" (no quotation marks) in the SUBJECT. **************************************************** To POST, send email for approval to: davew@exosci.com ____________________________________________________ Written in the prosperous city of Calgary, AB Canada mailing list served via Cybersurf - www.cybersuf.net Copyright (c) 1998 David Watanabe - davew@exosci.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Re: Phenomenon # 8 - Part 2 From: RAMBLD@worldnet.att.net [Diane] Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:53:28 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 22:55:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Phenomenon # 8 - Part 2 >Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:30:50 -0700 >To: agent4u@mindspring.com >From: Bob Tidwell <bob.t@mindspring.com> >Subject: Phenomenon # 8 - Part 2 > ***************************************** > The Grays - and their Long Journey Home > ***************************************** >Of all the different types of aliens, we seem to be fascinated >the most by the Grays. In fact, the bald oval head with the large <snip> I have been lurking on this list off and on, and find the list generally very informative and interesting. I have not been posting though because a lot of the regular posters here seem to be hard core skeptics, and as an abductee I can't always deal too well with that. Bob Tidwell's "story" about the Greys got to me enough though to risk going out on a limb a bit. This tale of the Greys basically being future humans, and the whole story of evolution and reproduction problems that they are addressing by coming back in time to us, is exactly what they told me, without so much detail. This happened at a time when I was at a peak of anger, resentment, and rebellion against them. Those feelings led me to a concentrated effort to communicate with them, to get through to them in some way just how I felt about their activities, and to get them to leave me and my family alone. This "message" was their answer, very strong and clear telepathic communication. It is the only communication I have ever had from them (that I know of) in over 40 years of "visits". I have heard a great deal about others who claim to have communicated with them, and it is said that when they do tell us anything they are infamous for lies and deceptions. I don't have a clue whether what they told me is the truth or not, but for me personally it must remain a serious possibility, along with the others, and I would like to hear a great deal more
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 'Psychosocialbabble' IUR 15.3 May/June 1990 From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Mon, 18 May 98 15:13:32 PDT Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 22:45:33 -0400 Subject: 'Psychosocialbabble' IUR 15.3 May/June 1990 Recent postings here bring to mind a piece I wrote for International UFO Reporter 15,3 (May/June 1990). It's titled "Psychosocialbabble," and I hope you find it of interest. -- Jerry Clark ------------ History is a subject in which some ufologists seem profoundly uninterested these days. Recently a reviewer in a British magazine airily dismissed Richard Hall's Uninvited Guests, with its insistent but to the reviewer unwelcome reminder of what the UFO evidence traditionally has consisted of (well-documented cases more logically tied to extraordinary technologies than to even more extraordinary "psychosocial" causes), as evoking little more than the "nostalgic glow of youth." What the reviewer insisted the UFO evidence consists of is this (and hang on to your hats, folks): ".... a folklore in which the man and woman in the street is [sic] threatened by both the limitless power of the `wholly other', from which not even the bedroom is safe, and the arbitrary power of a state bureaucracy widely believed to go round assassinating and intimidating those who have discovered its appalling secret. Beyond the crashed-saucer stories lies the fear that passionless symbols of pure reason are in command, and somehow need to steal our passion and our physicality in order to survive and reproduce. The atrophied `animal parts' of the alien cadavers have their psychological counterpart in the `glacial indifference' of the abductors. These are, of course, literal `eggheads', the antithesis of the `red-blooded American male', and thus the ultimate symbol of un-Americanism." Elsewhere this individual has written that American ufology -- and many American UFO experiences -- are driven by a deep-seated fear of Hispanic immigrants. Yes, he's serious. They always are. Such is much of ufology in our time, an exercise in -- what DOES one call this sort of thing? Rubbish, of course, but rubbish and writing about UFOs have a long, dishonorable and depressingly documentable relationship; so our friend does not distinguish himself here, not anyway when the John Lears and the Bill Coopers (whose crazy and marginal views our British pundit seems to think are representative of the beliefs not only of American ufologists but of Americans generally) are abroad in the land. Perhaps what makes these remarks notable is their quality of pseudoprofundity. One who is not reading carefully, or who knows little of what is being addressed (American ufology and American popular culture), may nod approvingly, though without quite realizing what meets his approval is only the elegance of the prose. After all, with one exception (I confess the line about the "atrophied `animal parts'" remains incomprehensible to me even after repeated readings), the sentences start somewhere and end with some discernible link with the opening sentiment -- not always the case in ufological prose -- and there is only one grammatical error. There are the requisite intellectual buzz words and phrases: not just the always reliable "symbol" and "psychological counterpart" but "passionless symbols of pure reason," a real mouthful, not to mention "the limitless power of the `wholly other'" and "antithesis." And of course there is the implicit Ameriphobia, always good for additional credit in some quarters. If one reduces the UFO phenomenon to an exercise in literary criticism (in other words, to meditation on a bunch of ideas and images patched together in narrative form) as opposed to a collection of investigatable experiential claims, the remarks above would have some meaning, not as profound insights (they are not that in any context) but as the sort of harmless fodder hack academics grind out to satisfy humanities-department heads that they are indeed able to publish SOMETHING and thus are worthy of continued employment at some less-than-first-rate provincial university. Merit, or even intellectual coherence, is not always the prime concern in these circumstances. But of the course the UFO phenomenon, to those who encounter it directly or to those who study its effects in field or laboratory, is at its core an EVENT which, when circumstances are right, can be recorded on radar, film, videotape, and photograph providing instrumented evidence that typically confirms the honesty and accuracy of the accompanying human testimony . It is incredible that in 1990 one should have to say this, or that an examination of actual evidence, as in Dick Hall's fine book, should be denounced as irrelevant and, yes, "provincial" (read "American") as if only a naif would hold that UFO sightings are relevant to a discussion of the UFO phenomenon. It is remarkable indeed that in many quarters ufological speculation by (ostensible) noncranks should bear only the most passing relationships to empirical evidence. (One psychosocial speculationist even acknowledges that the cases on which he builds his theories are worth "next to nothing as scientific evidence," then proceeds to draw on them to argue a hypothesis he clearly believes to be scientific.) No wonder actual UFO investigation has fallen into disrepute; some organs of psychosocial ufology now actively defend the armchair as the place from which one gets the grandest, clearest view. Grand (or grandiose) the view may be, but clear it ain't. Apparently the requirements of science, of even of good journalism, are invisible from this vantage. How many armchair psychosociologists does it take to construct a falsifiable hypothesis, or even to know what one is? Try to prove that little gray humanoids are NOT "passionless symbols of pure reason." Or, for that matter, that they're not "symbolic" of our deep unconscious fear of dentists (remember Barney Hill's teeth?). Or short people. Or bald, skinny people. Or people with cold, unblinking stares and long, thin fingers. Or -- most horrifying of all -- short, bald, skinny, thin-fingered JUNGIAN dentists who glare frigidly at their terrified patients. The possibilities are endless. Some months ago I had occasion to read or reread every major piece of writing in the English language on the psychosocial hypothesis. As I plowed through this by-now-considerable literature, I kept one question in mind all the while: what EMPIRICAL evidence justifies the various writers' pronouncements? The answer is "none to speak of." ... In the psychosociological works the noun "psychology" and the adjective "psychological" are ubiquitous but function more as mantras than as indicators of genuine scientific insights or possibilities. One prominent writer fills his books with accounts of anomalous experiences and follows them with pontifications on the "needs" that caused these poor, unenlightened folks to believe they had encountered gray-skinned humanoids or other need-we- say-nonexistent anomalous entities. It turns out that these speculations about "needs" are based on a sort of off-the-cuff analysis of persons the writer "knows" only through a few short sentences he has read about them in books on ufology, psychical research, or religious visions; many of these books, of course, were written by persons who had never met them either. In real psychology the theorist pays heed both to the dictates of scientific inquiry and to the truth, understood by all observant human beings, that human personalities are complex and often inscrutable. Thus he would feel obligated to base his speculations on enormously more evidence, including but not confined to psychological inventories and interviews. Moreover, hypotheses would be framed in such a way that, if wrong, they could be proven to be so. (Biologist R. C. Lewontin remarks that the difference between a falsifiable hypothesis and an unfalsifiable one is that the first is "what characterizes science, while the second kind is just storytelling.") Beneath all the verbiage lies nothing more than this simple tautology: Why did X think he saw extraterrestrials? Because he had certain psychological needs. How do we know he had these needs? Because he thought he saw extraterrestrials. This same writer asserts that hallucinations of alien beings occur when the percipient is in one or more of the following psychic or social states: relaxation or excitation; boredom or ecstasy; isolation or participation in a group; concentration or distraction; a crisis of faith or an unquestioning faith; anxiety or peace of mind. When none of these conditions obtains (if that is conceivable), the weather, the phase of the moon, or the individual's diet may trigger the imaginary encounter. It may as well be argued that the psychological state in which one is likely to imagine extraterrestrials is being alive -- also the state, an impolite observer might add, in which conceivably one could encounter REAL extraterrestrials. Elsewhere the writer says that CE3 accounts surely could not involve extraterrestrials because the perceived ETs' behavior is "illogical, no matter how much allowance we make for the possibility of ET logic may be different from ours." Scarcely 50 pages of the same book later we read that CE3s cannot be interpreted as alien encounters because the supposed ETs' patterns of behavior are "humanlike in so many ... ways." What this sort of circular logic leads to is a closed system from which nothing can enter, leave, or lay claim to an existential state independent of the psychosociologists' description of it. It has nothing to do with science. That does not mean that psychosociological approaches are not worth pursuing; it does mean that their proponents have done a lousy job of arguing their case, and it seems clear that even a more persuasively argued psychosocial model (of a sort yet to be articulated) is not going to help us much with ufology's most interesting questions, those that are the field's very raison d'etre, namely the ones that relate to such issues as physical and instrumented evidence, multiple witnesses, and the sorts of cases dealt with in, for one recent instance, Hall's book (and, for that matter, in Menzel's and Klass' books; the debunkers worth paying attention to have always understood that they have to do more than wave hands at the evidence). Reading the psychosocial literature, however, one would think that the case for the reality of UFOs consists of Adamski-like contactee tales (more plausibly accounted for as hoaxes than as the products of exotic psychological processes) and anecdotes about men in black. It is difficult for those outside the psychosocial belief system to understand what states of human consciousness, altered or otherwise, have to do -- to mention two instances of many hundreds that any informed ufologist could reel off the top of his head -- with the Trans-en-Provence CE2 or the Roswell case (though the latter was once "explained" to me by a British enthusiast who said it came about because of Americans' hysterical fear of "Commies" -- a peculiar argument to which he brought neither evidence nor logic but to which he was, need I note, thoroughly committed, even to the preservation of it in print). On its present course psychosocial ufology appears primed to continue into perpetuity its sad infatuation with bad psychology, bad sociology, and bad folklorics. Its followers commit the fundamental intellectual error so devastatingly critiqued by behavioral scientist David J. Hufford in his paper "Traditions of Disbelief" in New York Folklore, Winter 1982. Writing of the "standard skeptical view of supernatural belief -- a view that has existed for centuries, probably millennia -- namely that supernatural beliefs arise from and are supported by various kinds of obvious error," he observes that the "research design begins with the question `Why and how do some people manage to believe things which are so patently false?' ... Such a perspective has its usefulness ... but ... it is necessarily ethnocentric in the most fundamental sense. It takes a body of knowledge and considers it to be simply `the way things are' rather than a product of culture. It says over and over again, `What I know I KNOW, what you know you only BELIEVE." We can also expect psychosociologists to grow ever more dogmatic in their rhetoric -- and it is rhetoric, above all else, at which these pundits excel; there are, by comparison, relatively few articulate defenders of the extraterrestrial hypothesis. We can anticipate an ever greater eagerness to psycho- scrutinize the "needs" of those deluded souls who think radar/visual cases and ground traces mean something. For our part, those of us on the other side may be goaded into proposing our own psychosocial hypothesis: that the psychosocial hypothesis is itself a psychosocial response to the UFO phenomenon, a nontechnical, nonthreatening model of the phenomenon suitable to its English majors, librarians, Jungians, and counterculturists who are its principal proponents. In a real sense, in its elegant and strangely militant prose, in its suspicion of technology and antipathy to falsifiable- theory-making, it represents the revenge of the liberal- arts majors against a ufology dominated (in principle anyway) by such, from the psychosociologists' point of view, soul-deadening concerns as documentation, verification, and reason -- also known as the tools of science. Our own psychosocial hypothesis, unlike theirs, is a falsifiable one. To be falsified, it needs only for the psychosociologists to get serious; to get serious, they need to develop scientific hypotheses. In other words, our hypothesis will be falsified when psychosociologists offer us falsifiable hypotheses. Till then the rest of us can only watch and wonder anew at what the UFO phenomenon does, again and again, to otherwise rational people.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Re: Time Capsule - Where do you fit in? From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 15:43:48 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 23:42:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Time Capsule - Where do you fit in? > From: KAnder6444 <KAnder6444@aol.com> [Kathleen Anderson] > Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 21:50:02 EDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Time Capsule - Where do you fit in? > To All, > I personally can get brain overload with everything I read about > UFOs and its related phenonema. The who, what, where and why of > it all. Recognize any of these? <snip> > IS THIS NEW INFORMATION???? Nah. Things have not changed in 30 > years!! This was written by Coral and Jim Lorenzen in 1969! So > why, after all this time are we confronted with the same ole, > same ole in 1998! Same thing, different year! No, things do not > always change! You're wrong. There's a HUGE difference between then and now. Now thusands, if not hundreds of thousands, of experiencers are speaking out, at least to those they feel will listen. Not that we didn't exist in 1969, but we weren't talking. Not that anyone is listening (with a few notable exceptions), but we're contributing to the general scheme of things now. -- Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> ICQ Pager 6797092
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' From: SGB List 2 <SGBList2@aol.com> [Stephen Bassett] Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 18:03:02 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 23:27:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' > From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com> > To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' > Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:31:52 -0500 > > >From: SGB List 2 <SGBList2@aol.com> [Stephen Bassett] > >Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 13:09:03 EDT > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' > > >The extraterrestrial origin of some craft in our midst has been > >proven for some time. What is at issue now is the inability of > >individuals to accept the verdict based on the level of > >resistance they possess to the implications. > > > >The amount of proof available is so massive, many refuse to > >examine it because, frankly, they don't have the time. > >(smip) > > > At the risk of being contentious here, where is this proof? I > have not seen one independent laboratory report on the analysis > of materials recovered from so-called crash sites that indicates > they are of anything but terrestrial origin. The acceptance and reliability of all scientific theories rest on a mosaic of evidence of multiple composition. As it happens this is also true in the application of law. The OJ trial has reconfirmed to the world that a group of individuals can go nose to nose with a rhinocerous and call it a cocker spaniel. That aside, should any member of this list ever have the misfortune to find themsleves in the docket charged with murder in the first degree, and the evidence amassed against them was of similar breadth and scope as that currenlty compiled around the extraterrestrial hypothesis - they would find themselves on a one- way gurney ride home. SB
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 01:02:12 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 23:45:19 -0400 Subject: Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: New 'MJ-12' Documents? >Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:08:15 +0600 >>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 03:03:55 +0200 >>Subject: New MJ-12 Documents >>Two new alleged MJ-12 documents have surfaced. Page 1 of the >>first one bears the header >>Page 01 of 03 >>PRESIDENTIAL ORDER (Unnumbered Order) President Ronald Wilson Reagan >>(Authorized By Proxy) > >>REVISED CHARTER MARS JUPITER - TWELVE COMMITTEE >>February 14, 1987 >[etc., etc.] >Stig, >I just got on the site to get more info on the alleged "new >documents". >One can read the following (capital letters are mine): >"ALIEN RAPTURE IS NOT JUST ANOTHER NOVEL about little green men and >bug-eyed monsters. It is written in the style of Michael Crichton's >The Sphere, Sidney Sheldon's The Doomsday Conspiracy and the smash hit >"Independence Day." The amazing difference is that Alien Rapture - The >Chosen is filled with incredible facts, inside information and >PLAUSIBLE DETAILS of who controls the UFO conspiracy. Alien Rapture >explains how the government conspiracy is accomplished, why it exists, >and what the MJ-12 committee's plans for our future are." >[...] >"Alien Rapture is WRITTEN AS A SCIENCE-FICTION NOVEL to protect >individuals who have unwittingly been manipulated by the government >and those who for security reasons can not come forward. The facts, >revealed for the first time, are startling." >Now, how in the world can you say: >>Two new alleged MJ-12 documents have surfaced. >&$#^*&*%&$& ??? >Serge Salvaille I did write alleged, didn't I? Apart from that Sightings On Radio host Jeff Rense has interviewed one of the authors, Brad Steiger, several times recently and told me in an email: "Hope you've seen the TR-3B story. If true, and I believe it to be, it is the biggest disclosure and revelation in memory. Not only is the TR-3B revealed but the new MJ-12 "Reagan proxy" document AND the alien autopsy report...the missing Attachment 'D' mentioned in the original MJ-12 papers make this material a BLOCKBUSTER. In my judgement, after 20 years of broadcast journalism, the source of it is as good as it gets." I'm not convinced, but that's Jeff's opinion. Stig [sightings.com has the exclusivity to this story and graphics -- ebk]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Aztec, The UFO And The Skeptics From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 01:21:13 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 23:52:27 -0400 Subject: Aztec, The UFO And The Skeptics >From the Albuquerque Journal. URL: http://www.abqjournal.com/news/3news5-17.htm Stig ******* last updated: Sunday, 17-May-98 06:54:02 Saturday, May 16, 1998 Aztec, the UFO and the Skeptics Many say there is not a shred of evidence that a flying saucer landed here 50 years ago By Bill Papich For the Journal AZTEC -- Did anything resembling the crash of an unidentified flying object or any other event happen in a rugged canyon near here 50 years ago? No, nada, zippo, zilch, say the skeptics. But does that minor detail matter to this community of 6,000 in northwest New Mexico planning a 50th anniversary celebration next week of the purported event? No way. Consider this. Aztec was named for ruins settlers found when they arrived in 1876, believing they'd been left by the Aztec empire of Mexico. The Pueblo buildings are actually those of the Anasazi civilization. But, hey, the misnomer doesn't bother people. So neither are residents upset that most UFO researchers debunk claims that a flying saucer crashed near here in 1948. The skeptics don't mince words about what they say certainly did not happen. Dennis Stacy, a former editor of the UFO Journal, published by the Mutual UFO Network based in Seguin, Texas, is one of them. "It's a complete utter myth and hoax," Stacy said. "There's nothing to substantiate it. You just get stories." But the crash does have its true believers. Among them is the co-author of a book explaining how the alleged crash was supposed to have happened. He is said to be in hiding, fearful that agents of the federal government seek him for revealing details about the crash. Plans for the 50th anniversary celebration starting Saturday and running through May 25 are in full swing with a UFO symposium, crash site tours, model rocket launchings and a band among the events scheduled. Proceeds from the "UFO Crash at Aztec 50th Anniversary Event" will go in a fund to buy books and computers for a new Aztec public library. The crash site is a clearing amid sandstone formations in oil and natural-gas drilling country, on public land managed by the Bureau of Land Management. Wendelle C. Stevens, who co-wrote a 600-page privately published book in 1986 titled "UFO Crash at Aztec," says people know of the crash but are afraid to speak out. "As soon as their names are mentioned or if you even make a telephone call to them, within two days they'll be visited by the FBI," Stevens said from his Tucson home. "They will be reminded of their national security oath, they will be threatened one way or another." Stevens wrote the book with William S. Steinman, who Stevens says was a government quality-control inspector for the aviation industry and who lost his job when the book was published. The book reports a flying saucer crash in March or May 1948 near Aztec, with 16 aliens on board who died in the crash and were hauled away with their space ship to Wright Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio. The book, with a map of the crash site and sketches of dead aliens and their space ship, doesn't name its eyewitness sources. Stevens says Steinman, after losing his job, feared the worst from the government. "Steinman is in hiding now and has been ever since the book came out," Stevens said. The book describes the flying saucer as six feet high, with a diameter of 99.9 feet, with dead aliens inside having small, humanlike bodies. One of the most credible UFO investigators is nuclear physicist Stanton T. Friedman, who says reports of a UFO crash near Aztec have no evidence to back them up. Friedman, of New Brunswick, Canada, is a regular on the international UFO speaking circuit and outspoken in his belief that a UFO crash at Roswell in 1947 does have evidence to prove it. "I've seen no evidence there was a crash at Aztec. That doesn't prove that nothing happened," Friedman said. "What am I going to say -- I don't want people to support a library? I love libraries." Karl Pflock of Placitas, a writer and UFO researcher who published a 1994 book about the alleged UFO crash at Roswell titled "Roswell in Perspective," dismisses claims of an extraterrestrial crash at Aztec or one at Roswell. Pflock says stories about the Aztec crash began after two men involved in oil exploration finance schemes claimed they had a machine, built with alien technology, that would find oil and natural gas deposits. Pflock said the two, both now dead, were convicted of fraud and related charges in 1953. He said one managed a radio and TV parts store in Phoenix and used the store's inventory to build the machine. "So they put together this screwball does-nothing device, but looks-like-it-does-something device," Pflock said. "They managed to persuade a number of people to actually invest money in this thing." He said Variety magazine columnist Frank Scully picked up on the Aztec crash story and wrote about it in the October 1949 issue, Pflock said. Scully also wrote about the Aztec crash in his best-selling 1952 book "Behind the Flying Saucers." Pflock said his 1994 book reveals evidence that the alleged UFO crash at Roswell actually was that of an instrument-heavy balloon the military was testing to monitor nuclear weapons tests in the Soviet Union. "At least the basis for the Roswell story was real. Something really did happen," Pflock said. "Aztec started as a myth, a total con job from the very beginning." The Fund for UFO Research, based at Mt. Rainier, Md., also has found no evidence of a UFO crash near Aztec. The organization is a 15-member board, most of them scientists, said UFO Research chairman Don Berliner. "Nobody I would rate among the serious people in the field has paid any attention to that one because there didn't seem to be any reason to," Berliner said. "That doesn't mean there might have been something to it." There is something, according to the just published book "Glimpses of other Realities, Volume II: High Strangeness" by Philadelphia author Linda Moulton Howe. One chapter of her book, titled "Military Voices," tells of a secret government photograph of a silver disk landing, not crashing, near Farmington sometime in the 1940s -- hauled away by the government. Farmington is 15 miles west of Aztec. In a telephone interview, Howe said Farmington would have been the main geographical point of reference in the 1940s, not Aztec. "One of the accounts is by an ex-intelligence person about seeing a file with a photograph of a classic silvery disk," Howe said, adding she must protect her sources. Randy Barnes, of Farmington, says he knows an ex-military man who participated in the recovery of a UFO crash north of Aztec, but not in 1948. Barnes, who owns the Medicine Wheel School of Holistic Therapy in Farmington, said the man wants his identity protected. "He said there were two crashes in two locations not too distant apart," Barnes said. "He told me about the one he was involved in," in 1950. One of the most extensive investigations of claims in Steinman and Stevens' book was by former UFO investigator Rebecca Minshall of Albuquerque. Steinman had visited Aztec while writing his book, and Minshall and UFO investigator William E. Jones went to Aztec to check out everything and everybody Steinman wrote about. "The stories he claimed he got from people, when we re-interviewed them, those stories did not hold up," Minshall said. "We came to the conclusion that it appeared, in our opinion, there was no crash at Aztec." Bob Weaver, president of the Aztec Museum's board of directors, says the late George B. Bowra, 1950s editor of the now-defunct Aztec Independent Review newspaper, wrote a report of a UFO crash as a joke. "I don't remember the year, I just remember what he told me," Weaver said. "He said it would be fun to put something like that in the paper. "Everybody pretty much knew he did these things and nobody thought anything about it." Copyright =A9 1997, 1998 Albuquerque Journal
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Roswell UFO Museum Foresees $15 Million Expansion From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 01:26:26 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 23:54:23 -0400 Subject: Roswell UFO Museum Foresees $15 Million Expansion >From @marillo Globe News (sic!). URL: http://www.amarillonet.com/stories/051598/new_LD0701.001.shtml Stig ******* Web posted Friday, May 15, 1998 6:03 a.m. CT UFO Museum foresees $15 million expansion The Associated Press ROSWELL (AP) - With eyes as big as saucers, the International UFO Museum and Research Center is envisioning a $15 million expansion into the next millennium. The three-phased program would include a new 25-acre site west of Roswell, a high-tech computer research facility, interactive museum and gift shop, office complex, a children's museum and perhaps someday an auditorium - all focused on alien beings from outer space. "We want to become the clearinghouse for information, not just the place that information is gathered," museum director Deon Crosby said Thursday, "but to go to the next level by technically compiling, studying and distributing to the public this information." Attendance is expected to reach 310,000 this year, Crosby said, and the existing museum soon will be too small. To get Phase I rolling, the museum has taken out a five-year option to buy the 25 acres on U.S. 70 from a local development company, United Continental New Mexico, Crosby said Thursday. The museum expects to raise $7.5 million to cover Phase I before the five years expire, she said. Phase II would include about $3 million for a children's museum and traveling exhibits, she said, describing Phase III as a $5 million "wish list" including an auditorium that would be available for community use as well. So far, the museum has raised about $30,000, Crosby said. The facility is having proposals written to seek library- and museum-development grants, she said. Admission to the museum is free. "We have seen that receipts in the gift shop are higher if you don't charge admission," Crosby said. The gift shop sells more than 900 different items, including board games, books, flying saucer Frisbies, windsocks, cups, mugs, t-shirts, key chains and hundreds of other souvenirs, she said. The museum reported attendance of about 192,000 last year. "That's a lot of people coming to Roswell," she said. According to the now-famous story, the government supposedly recovered a crashed spaceship and alien bodies from a ranch northwest of Roswell in July 1947. A 50th anniversary celebration was held in town last summer. An estimated 48,000 people attended. The Air Force has long contended the wreckage was actually a high-altitude balloon. And last year an Air Force report said people may have mistaken parachute test-dummies for alien bodies. But witnesses who say they saw something near Roswell 50 years ago, and those who have heard their stories, have argued that there has been a long-term government conspiracy to hide the truth about it. We'd love to hear your feedback. =A9 1998 Amarillo Globe-News
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 18 Gascoigne's #1 Dream: To See A UFO From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 01:37:25 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 23:55:52 -0400 Subject: Gascoigne's #1 Dream: To See A UFO I'm a soccer fan myself, so pardon me this small digression inspired by the BBC's site. URL: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sport/football/newsid_95000/95817.stm Stig ******* Monday, May 18, 1998 Published at 08:47 GMT 09:47 UK Sport: Football Gazza flying high England's midfielder Paul Gascoigne has revealed that he is scanning the skies for inspiration as he prepares for the World Cup. It is by no means certain that the Middlesbrough midfielder will be included in Glenn Hoddle's final 22 for France 98 and there have been concerns about Gazza's antics in recent days, as he has been spotted boozing in London with his friend Chris Evans, as well as singer Rod Stewart. But in an interview with another friend, DJ Danny Baker, published in The Times, he has insisted that his number one dream is not winning the World Cup, or the Premiership, but seeing a UFO. "I'll tell you what my dream is," he told Baker. "I mean my absolute number one dream that I will die happy if it happens - I want to see a UFO. "They're real. I don't care if you look at me like that - UFOs are a definite fact and I've got to see one soon, I've got to." (Link: Gazza's agent Mel Stein on the BBC Radio 4 Today programme: "I don't think he's got any problems".) But speaking on BBC Radio 4's Today Programme, Gazza's lawyer Mel Stein admitted the UFO claim could have been "tongue in cheek". Mr Stein insisted the reports of Gazza's drunken antics were - as usual - being over-reported by the tabloids. "He's in a very good state ... mentally he's very focused on the World Cup. "Every single professional footballer at the end of the season has a big wind-down ... but I suspect that similar pictures could have been taken of half the England squad." (Link: Glenn Hoddle speaking on the BBC Radio 4 Today programme: "Gazza's not fit".) But England manager Glenn Hoddle has fired a warning shot across the player's bows: "He's not 100% fit ... so I can't say at this time that he's 100% in my plans," he said on the Today programme. Gascoigne remains upbeat about England's chances of bringing the World Cup home. He said: "If Glenn Hoddle's done anything he's made us all believe that. That's why I think he's putting in so many young lads and goes with them, not just to give them a look at, but because they don't know what's ahead of them, they're not full of fear. "It's like me when I went to the World Cup. I wasn't afraid one bit, I loved it." Asked what there was to fear, he replied: "The fear of not doing well yourself. The fear of getting beaten. The fear it's going to be your fault." But despite the concerns over his fitness he insisted: "I wouldn't want to be out at the World Cup finals like some unfit passenger and I'm not going to be. "Nothing I've ever done in football says that. Say what you like but I'm totally one-minded about England. I don't know another way, everyone knows that."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 19 New Top Secret Document Revealed From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 21:36:55 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 00:00:18 -0400 Subject: New Top Secret Document Revealed Greetings List, Candy Peterson and Steve Russell assisted me in get this material ready for publication on the Internet. John Stepkowski, the Project 1947 Webmaster, has now linked most of the documents related the newly discovered April 1949 Top Secret "Unidentified Aerial Objects," a USAF Directorator of Intelligence's briefing for the Joint Intelligence Committee (JIC). The Top Secret document was discovered last year at the National Archives. It throws new light on the release of the "Project Saucer" report, Sydney Shallet's Saturday Evening Post article, the printing and distribution of the Top Secret "Analysis of Flying Object Incidents in the United States," and the internal briefing of the USAF Operations Staff by Directorate of Intelligence personnel in the last few days of April and the beginning of May 1949. The Top Secret JIC briefing and related documents are linked in the footnotes of a general commentary recently published in The International UFO Reporter (Published by CUFOS, 2457 West Peterson Avenue, Chicago, IL 60659, $25/year in the USA) on the Project 1947 website at URL: http://www.iufog.org/project1947/fig/49docdex.htm However, there is one further 1949 item which came to light during my research trip to USAF Historical Research Agency at Maxwell AFB, Alabama. A 7 May 1949 article in the Air Force Times newspaper. This article was not datelined Washington, D. C. The reporter went instead to Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio--as the AF Times reporters would do many times in the future--straight to the horse's mouth. What came out is, of course, the Air Force line, but it is much softer than Shallet's article or some of the other press reports. Best regards, -- Jan Aldrich Project 1947 http://www.iufog.org/project1947/ ============================================================== Air Force Times, 7 May 1949, page 5 (breaks, etc., as in the original): Many Flying Saucers Incidents Remain Unsolved, AF Reports Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio--Preliminary studies made here by the Air Material Command concerning 270 reports of "flying saucers" have not solved the mystery that has fascinated the nation for nearly two years, but they have succeeded in proving most of the incidents involved objects such as weather balloons, flares, flights of birds, and practical jokes. The airborne disks are not joke to the Air Force, however, and the AMC investigators frankly admin that many cases remain unsolved. * * * THEY INSIST that exhaustive research has produced "no alarming probabilities such as missiles fired by other nations or from other planets. The flying saucer researchers studied reports of 240 incidents in this country and 30 overseas. About 30 per cent of them have been dismissed as astronomical phenomena, such as comets or shooting stars, and another 30 per cent have been explained as conventional objects, such as other aircraft, birds, etc. But the remaining 40 per cent, the report points out, still end in question marks, and solutions of these unsolved cases are still sought by AMC's Intelligence Division. * * * THE SAUCER scare started June 24, 1947, when a flier near Mt. Rainier, Wash., saw what appeared to be a chain of nine peculiar aircraft. "They were flap like a pie plan and so shiny they reflected the sun like a mirror," he told investigators. His story was treated mainly with amusement and disbelief when it broke in the newspapers, but reports of flying discs began to snowball. Several Portland, Ore., policemen said they saw a group which "wobbled, disappeared and reappeared" and resembled "shiny chromium hub caps." Two Alabama pilots reported a huge black object "bigger than a C-54" but without engines or wings which they followed for several minutes until it outran their plane. A private pilot in Oklahoma City reported what was the largest saucer on record. It was as large as "six B-29s," he said, and flying three times as fast as a jet. * * * A TRAGIC development occurred near Godman AFB, Fort Knox, Ky., when three Air National Guard pilots gave chase to an unidentified object that looked like "an ice cream cone topped with red." The flight leader climbed to 20,000 feet, where he apparently blacked out from lack of oxygen. His body was found in the wreckage of his plane. The investigators took note of reports that the strange objects might be space ships from other planets. Although they conceded such an explanation was possible, they called it very unlikely, calling the odds against it "at lease a thousand to one." In summing up the evidence that has been collected, the report cites the fact that most of the incidents have been solved, concedes that some remain unanswered, and pledges a continuance of the investigations.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 19 Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 02:00:27 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:15:42 -0400 Subject: Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 03:03:55 +0200 >Subject: New MJ-12 Documents Dear Stig, Serge and list: Before anyone gets too wrapped up in the new MJ12 documents, I suggest you scan a list of Brad Steiger book titles for the last decade or two. For example, two offerings are: The Transformative Power of your Personal Animal Totem -and- Kahuna Magic: The Top Selling Tools and Treasures from the Rowa. .. I don't know anything about the other author [ yet ] . Best wishes - Larry Hatch [sightings.com has the exclusivity to this story and graphics -- ebk]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 19 Strieber on CSPAN? From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 21:44:30 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 07:59:32 -0400 Subject: Strieber on CSPAN? On Whitley Strieber's web site: http://www.strieber.com Whitley's latest journal entry says that his recent book signing/lecture at the Pentagon book store will be broadcast on CSPAN. Does anybody know how to find out when this might air? Does anybody have any info. on this? Actually, I'm too lazy to look up the phone number and call myself. Also in his journal entry is his description of his recent appearance on The Rosie O'Donnell Show. This is supposed to air sometime in July. Supposedly, Rosie will discuss, for the first time in public, her personal experiences relating to the ET/UFO topic. Strieber doesn't say exactly what she said on the taped show. Check out his site for more details. I finished reading Confirmation. It was great! I would recommend it to anybody with a open, healthy skeptical mind. I think Strieber approaches the subject better than most of the other Ufologists out there. His book is a perfect read for somebody who is open minded to consider UFOs and ETs a reality yet afraid to be ridiculed for allegedly believing in aliens. I have many friends who would probably take a bit more of an interest if they read Strieber's non conclusional thoughts. He's open to all possibilities. His own "implant" surgery is discussed as well as others who have made the same claims. He goes through some of the better modern evidence of UFOs. One really interesting story is one he has not talked about a lot in public. I had never heard about it. He talks about when he believes his "implant" or whatever it is, was put into his ear. This involved humans (Black Project?) and possibly another intelligence. It's a really good read and I suggest it highly! Strieber's theory on what the visitors, if that's what's going on, might be doing here is something that rings true in my heart. Of course, we may never know why and may never have proof. Who knows? Joe Murgia
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 19 Re: Phenomenon # 8 - Part 2 From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 01:45:59 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:10:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Phenomenon # 8 - Part 2 >From: RAMBLD@worldnet.att.net [Diane] >To: agent4u@mindspring.com >From: Bob Tidwell <bob.t@mindspring.com> >Subject: Phenomenon # 8 - Part 2 > I have been lurking on this list off and on, <snip> > ... . Bob Tidwell's "story" about the Greys got to me > enough though to risk going out on a limb a bit. > This tale of the Greys basically being future humans, and the > whole story of evolution and reproduction problems that they are > addressing by coming back in time to us, is exactly what they > told me, without so much detail. Dear Diane: I have been cataloging UFO sightings, including (published) abductions, for around 15 years. This is my opinion only of course, but I now believe that one of the LAST things an alien will tell you or anyone else is where they come from .. be it the Future, someplace in space, another dimension or whatever. I lean toward the nuts-and-bolts and ET interpretation, but I'm open to the other options. I see a clear and consistent pattern of mis, dis, and non- information, so complete and compelling that so-called "government conspirators", assuming they exist at all, can only stand in awe. Best wishes - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 19 Re: NASA Announces Astrobiology Institute From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 04:19:57 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:04:00 -0400 Subject: Re: NASA Announces Astrobiology Institute Just released. Stig ******* NASA announces astrobiology institute United Press International - May 18, 1998 17:09 UPI Science News ATLANTA, May 18 (UPI) - The head of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration pledges $9 million for a "virtual" Astrobiology Institute to help study life in outer space. At the annual meeting of the American Society for Microbiology in Atlanta, Daniel Goldin says Monday NASA also will pump more funds into programs to study how to keep astronauts alive and healthy in long trips to the planets; how to determine what forms of life exist on other planet and how to keep humans from contaminating alien worlds. Goldin admits that until recently NASA has not committed much effort to the microbiological search for life in the universe, but now he says, "Biology is essential to what we do." Rita Colwell, professor of microbiology at the University of Maryland and the designated director of the National Science Foundation, "Previously, NASA has concentrated on human health aspects of space exploration. Now NASA is showing its seriousness in using microbiology to understand what life in space might be like." Goldin says the astrobiology institute will not be made of brick and mortar, but will connect experts around the country via the Next Generation Internet, putting specialists in touch in a virtual world. He says he expects the scientists to help NASA get humans to the planets. Goldin says spacecraft will have to become mini-ecosystems, utilizing microbes to create a self-sustaining environment for space trips that can take years. Goldin says biologists will be necessary to figure out how to prevent bone loss in space. He said, "Astronauts lose about 1 percent of bone a month in space." He said that type of bone loss is unacceptable in a space journey to Mars that will keep astronauts in space for three years. He says microbiologists are going to have help select specimens on the planets; figure out how to get samples back to Earth without contaminating the rocks and how to prevent life forms on or in those specimens from contaminating earth. Goldin says that for too long NASA has relied too much on telescopes and not enough on microscopes. He says, "We need telescopes and microscopes to explore the universe." -- Copyright 1998 by United Press International All rights reserved --
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 19 Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com> [Robert Gates] Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 21:53:35 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:03:06 -0400 Subject: Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? > From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 03:03:55 +0200 > Subject: New MJ-12 Documents > Two new alleged MJ-12 documents have surfaced. Page 1 of the > first one bears the header > Page 01 of 03 > PRESIDENTIAL ORDER (Unnumbered Order) President Ronald Wilson Reagan > (Authorized By Proxy) > REVISED CHARTER MARS JUPITER - TWELVE COMMITTEE > February 14, 1987 Before we all get excited, and start getting frothed up about these alleged documents, I would like to point out one thing. If you check the web site its a promotion (part of a chapter) for some kind of fictional UFO book. If people get hot and bothered by the mere thought of some alleged MJ-12 documents I am sure that some creative writer(s) types will gladly create more Cheers, Robert [sightings.com has the exclusivity to this story and graphics -- ebk]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 19 Re: eSufo - SETI pulses From: David Watanabe <davew@exosci.com> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 16:56:16 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 07:53:54 -0400 Subject: Re: eSufo - SETI pulses exoScience UFO * 5/18/98 * exosci.com/ufo * SOME INTERESTING SETI DATA -from a SETI mailing list: ------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 20:55:17 -0500 From: Malcolm Mallette To: LieslMFlanagan@compuserve.com, ara-list@cannonexpress.com, steve@estel.uindy.edu, Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers Subject: SETI pulses. At the University of Indianapolis we have noticed short pulses of less than a minute duration. The produce very sharp spikes in the output of the RA receiver. They sometimes produce a sharp downward deflection of the RA receiver output, which we suspect is due to strong interference near the passband that desenses the receiver. We suspect that the pulses are interference. In order to negate the possiblity that the pulses are not interference but are from phenomena from someplace other than earth, we would like to run an experiment over the next two weeks. We now ( May 14 ) have our 5 meter dish on the declination of Cygnus A. When an ordered observation is not taking place the default files of a sample every 10 seconds are created. Our daily files are generally an observation file now starting at 4:30 am to catch Cygnus A, Cygnus X and Cygnus B and a default file or files the rest of the time. There are occasionally other files created, such as a 10 samples per second observation of a few minutes that will be run tomorrow to see if we can find the source of the noise on the temperature sensor output. However, unless there is a software crash, there should be constant observation and data around the clock. Please note we use EST on the files. Of course, we cannot see anything during rain except the blackbody radiation from the water droplets. If anyone has a RA system running and can point to the declination of Cygnus A, +40.73 Degrees, it might be possible to compare results. However, we are pointed at the south meridian and, if the other RA system is not at the longitude of Indianpolis, it would have to be pointed a little off the meridian so it would be observing the same RA as we are. If anyone is interested please let us know. Since our data goes on the web automatically, the other RA operator can easily check our results against his. Malcolm Mallette ____________________________________________________ exoScience UFO http://exosci.com/ufo/ **************************************************** To SUBSCRIBE / UNSUBSCRIBE, send email to: davew@exosci.com with either "subscribe ufo" or "unsubscribe ufo" (no quotation marks) in the SUBJECT. **************************************************** To POST, send email for approval to: davew@exosci.com ____________________________________________________ Written in the prosperous city of Calgary, AB Canada mailing list served via Cybersurf - www.cybersuf.net Copyright (c) 1998 David Watanabe - davew@exosci.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 19 E.T.H. - Extremely Tenuous Hypothesis From: "Mark Pilkington" <markp@syzygy.net> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:42:55 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:45:14 -0400 Subject: E.T.H. - Extremely Tenuous Hypothesis http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/news/clark.html E.T.H. - Extremely Tenuous Hypothesis John Rimmer Jerome Clark, editor of the influential International UFO Reporter, is a strong proponent of the extraterrestrial theory of UFO origin. His recent booklet, Spacemen, Demons and Conspiracies: the evolution of UFO hypotheses, is critical of the psychosocial hypothesis, and takes a sideswipe at Magonia and some of our contributors. Naturally, we were keen to review the publication, and the publishers, The Fund for UFO Research were kind enough to send us a copy. As with everything Clark writes, it is well worth reading. The booklet begins with brief summaries of the range of UFO hypothesis, including occult theories - largely Meade Layne, early versions of the ETH connected with the turn of the century airship waves, and a variety of cranky 'UFOs as living creatures' theories. Clark spends a disproportionate amount of space on this extremely minor sub-theory. The major part of the book is an attack on the 'New-Ufology' ideas of the sixties and seventies, particularly the works of John Keel and Jacques Vallee. Clark himself, like many Americans now settled into middle-aged, middle-class conformity, has problems about the nineteen-sixties. Clark's historicist view of ufology sees it emerging from the original sightings and contacts in the 'forties into two separate strands of thought: the 'saucerians' - pro-contact, space-brothers oriented, and the 'ufologists', scientific and sceptical of contact claims. There is a great deal of truth in this, although the separation between the two streams was never as total as Clark believes, and he has rather starry-eyed views on the scientific rigour of the 'ufologists'. At one point he claims: "To [ufologists] the ETH was something more to be assumed than to be speculated about [true, but hardly scientific]. Ufology's best and brightest had more interest in investigating reports and correlating data than in wondering about the Greater Meaning of it All". In your dreams, Jerry! In fact it would be hard to find a UFO magazine in the fifties and sixties which did not from time to time waste a great deal of paper in vague, speculative rambling articles - what Hilary Evans memorably describes as 'deserts of arid speculation' - about life and the universe. The magazines that didn't, presumably Clark's data correlators, were simply listings of cases; mostly uninvestigated reports from newspapers. These were, and are still, very useful in their way, but hardly represent the 'hard work and shrewd analysis' which Clark claims as a hallmark of the scientific 'ufologists'. This cosy sub-division of the subject came under threat in the seventies with the rise of two of Clark's principal betes-noir, John Keel and Jacques Vallee. I agree that Keel was responsible for introducing a new element of anti-scientific irrationalism into the field of ufology, and in Magonia's '25 Years Ago' columns you will have read how Alan Sharp regularly locked horns with Keel over his lack of scientific credibility. In Keel's favour it must be said that his investigations (and when all is said he probably did more first-hand investigation than most so-called scientific 'ufologists') opened out the field of ufology, and yes, Clark is right, helped undermine the complacent acceptance of the ETH amongst most ufologists. Vallee is a scientist, and his first two books are still held up as examples of the kind of 'correlative' work that Clark assumes was the standard for ufologists at the time. The fact that they are still worth reading simply serves to demonstrate how little of that type of work was actually going on then. With Passport to Magonia Vallee moved into the realm of 'sixties counterculture', in Clark's view. I suspect that most of Vallee's interest in ufology was fulfilled by the time he published Invisible College in the late seventies, and his later books are largely re-hashes or diaries of his more productive period. The real problem for Clark's thesis with both these writers is that they showed that the UFO phenomenon was not containable in a simple ETH pigeonhole. The problem was one of perception: the perception of what constituted a UFO report. Clark castigates FSR for carrying articles by the likes of F W Holiday about the Loch Ness Monster, and certainly they were tedious enough to read at the time. But at least they were able to demonstrate that the ETH was not the only unproven theory that could be hung around the phenomenon. Naturally it is when Clark comes to discuss and dismiss the psycho-social hypothesis (PH) that Magonia's collective ears prick up. We really wanted to see the context in which were we described as giving aid and succour to a 'walking corpse'. Disappointingly there is no context. Clark simply raises the subject then throws it away virtually unexamined. Its proponents are described as 'counterculturalists' (them again, Jerome Clark does seem to have a problem with this concept), Jungians, English majors (I presume he means 'graduates' in British-English, rather than military gentlemen) and librarians. OK, I admit it, I'm a librarian, so is Peter Rogerson. As far as I know the only difference this has made to my life as a ufologist is that I have been able to order obscure books free rather than pay 50p for a reservation card. His description of the PH is brief: "psycho-social theorists held that cultural imagination and altered states of consciousness caused individuals to undergo visionary experiences which they mistook for 'real' (event-level) ones. Since high-strangeness claims were practically never matched with the sort of evidence needed to sustain them, this was not, on the surface, an unreasonable approach". This is a very fair summary of the psycho-social approach, and I was expecting a counter-argument at least as detailed as his partially-successful demolition of Keel and Vallee. But we are simply told that "as eventually became all too apparent" the theory was suitable only for the dreaded librarians who wrote about ufology as "an exercise in literary criticism". I think part of the reason why Clark has abdicated on his attempt to counter the PH is that, despite such writers as Martin Kottmeyer and one or two other contributors to Fortean rather than ufological literature, it has never really been seriously promoted in the USA, and as is becoming clearer and clearer, American ufology like much of American society is tremendously insular. This is understandable in a such a huge and diverse country, but it does reduce the range of influences and ideas which impinge on US ufology. To read an average American UFO magazine it would be hard to discern that anywhere else in the world exists which does not have a link with the US: Rendlesham only features in American magazines because it was a US base; the Berwyn Mountain case has no such transatlantic connection so it is largely ignored. The massive dominance of government cover-up and conspiracy theories in American ufology can be sustained only by ignoring the fact that there are other governments around the world, not all of whom are at the US's bidding. Have the Roswell proponents ever considered what might happen if a similar event occured in Libya, Iran or China? On the last page this book is revealed as a prop for the ETH. Clark admits that humans do perceive a remarkable range of anomalous experiences: "as... psychosocial theorist rightly remind us... gods, monsters fairies, even merfolk... we can grant the legitimacy of fantastic experience without taking the further step of confusing it with event", except of course for UFOs. The core UFO phenomenon is the "daylight disc, radar/visual and landing traces (and, perhaps crash/retrieval)". The ETH, in these case has been shown to be "reasonable, testable and meaningful. At the least it has demonstrated the presence of a physical phenomenon with a technlogy which interacts with its immediate environment." Well, Jerome, where are these cases? You quote Trans-en-Provence, yet this has already been effectively demolished by French ufologist Eric Maillot. Maillot's original report is even more devastating that the edited version published in UFOs 1947-1997 (Fortean Tomes, 1997). We are anxious to see those cases which show the ETH to be reasonable and testable, and ask Jerome Clark, and any other ufologist who claims such evidence to send details to us, and maybe we too will be obliged finally to give the living corpse of the psycho-social hypothesis a decent burial. Seriously, send details to Magonia at the editorial address, or E-mail me at: johnr@magonia.demon.co.uk, or write to John Harney, who will undertake an analysis of any cases submitted, at: 27 Enid Wood House, High Street, Bracknell, Berkshire, RG12 1LN. John Rimmer can also be emailed at: johnr@magonia.demon.co.uk -------------------------------------------- Mark Pilkington Magonia Online http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk -------------------------------------------- Stuck in a particular mindset, consumer perceptions might not necessarily be supported by reality. P&G
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 19 Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 07:04:31 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:46:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' >From: "David Baker" <davbak@globalnet.co.uk> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' >Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 20:45:18 +0100 >>Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 12:39:55 -0400 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' >>>From: SGB List 2 <SGBList2@aol.com> >>>Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 02:52:42 EDT >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Time to retire 'UFOlogist', 'UFOlogy' >>>The extraterrestrial origin of some craft in our midst has been >>>proven for some time. What is at issue now is the inability of >>>individuals to accept the verdict based on the level of >>>resistance they possess to the implications. >>Hogwash! Nothing about origins has been proved! We don't even >>have proof we are dealing with solid objects! >>Bob >I can't really understand all the wailing and gnashing of teeth >concerning the term 'ufologist'....as many have said, it's a term >that has settled into the conciousness of the masses for far too >long to change now, and surely it's as good a term as any. >But "UFO Community"....now there IS a bad term. >Oh, and how about "UFO Buffs"? >"Ufologist" just pales into inconsequence now, huh? I don't really mind UFO and/or Ufologist all that much, and it is commonly understood. What I object to is the idiotic statements that this or that has been proved about UFOs. NOTHING has been proved. All we have is masses of subjective reports, many of them mutually contradictive. So far not one shred of proven physical evidence. It is highly unscientific to insist on extraterrestrial origins for something that we know so very little about. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 19 Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 15:45:41 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 13:59:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' >Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 07:04:31 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' >What I object to is the idiotic statements that this or that has >been proved about UFOs. NOTHING has been proved. All we have is >masses of subjective reports, many of them mutually >contradictive. So far not one shred of proven physical >evidence. Right on, Bob! That's what I said just after I joined this list, and I got shot down by various big cheeses that reckon they "know" what's going on. Not even the Great Phoenix Flap is an uncontested event. Not one crash/retrieval case has been proved. Not one abduction can be proven. Now everybody who's anybody (and I'm sorry about my stance) is going to be-labour me with the "fact" that they've experienced something. But what did they in fact experience? That's why we keep on re-hashing the Extra-Terrestial Hypothesis (ETH): because we know *nothing*. Something's happening, that's for sure. But are these diverse events related? Are the same beings responsible for all, most, or just some of the events? How much is Governemnt related? How much is paranormal? How much is genuinely ET in origin? Let's look at facts: most UFO sightings are in or near highly developed countries, countries with extensive defense budgets and large air forces. How many sightings occur in 3rd World countries like India, Congo, Vietnam, and so on? Are these 3rd-World sightings maybe not the *real* ET events? Even the "UFO" that was chased by a Police chopper over Pretoria, South Africa, last year was almost *certainly* a remotely piloted drone built by Denel and which is currently available through your friendly neighbourhood arms dealer. I want to ask an open question here: what's REALLY happening in Puerto Rico and other Mid- and South-American states? I'm off to lurk again............. Jakes E. Louw louwje@telkom.co.za
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 19 Re: 'MJ-12' Documents? From: KRandle993 <KRandle993@aol.com> [Kevin Randle] Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:35:12 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 13:49:58 -0400 Subject: Re: 'MJ-12' Documents? >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 03:03:55 +0200 >Subject: New MJ-12 Documents >Two new alleged MJ-12 documents have surfaced. Page 1 of the >first one bears the header <snip> >ULTRA TOP SECRET >MJ-12 >EYES ONLY Page 02 of 03 Hi all - I have waited for someone to point out what might be the fatal flaw on this document (overlooking for the moment that it comes out in a work of fiction - Stan, where are you? I thought you'd be up front telling everyone this is fiction). The classification at the top of the page should read TOP SECRET - ULTRA... Ultra being the code word for this particular group of documents. And, it should be noted that Top Secret - Ultra refers, not to UFOs, but to code breaking efforts during the Second World War. British and American intelligence officers were regularly reading the coded messages of the Nazis and all were classified as Top Secret - Ultra. Someone who didn't know his or her history, and the way classifications worked, apparently that that Ultra would by the highest of the top secret catagories, not knowing what it really meant. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 19 Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:50:09 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 13:54:48 -0400 Subject: Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? >From: ufotruth@ix.netcom.com [William Hand] >Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 15:02:08 -0500 (CDT) >Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 22:33:50 -0400 >Subject: Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: New 'MJ-12' Documents? >Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:08:15 +0600 >Serge Salvaille, >There ARE NEW MJ12 documents! The authors of the book >"ALIEN RAPTURE" are Edgar Rothschild Fouche' and Brad Steiger. >Edgar Rothschild Fouche' had been in many black projects and >classified projects for many years. After retiring from working >for various government agencies he made a group of friends who >had also worked in various black projects. They got together >and talked several times about UFO/ET information, advanced >technology, and black projects. >He wanted to write a book about all of this information so he >approached certain people in the military/government and asked >them if he could write a book about it. They said he could but >the book would have to be FICTION, he could not release any >classified information that HE knew about personally, and >the NAMES of the individuals would have to be changed. Ah, a new way to declassify information! Just make it FICTION and change the names. Why if someone had the OVERLORD plans, and they just changed the names, then Eisenhower would not have been upset about having D-Day blown. How cool government security agents have become! Well, MJ-12 security agents have blown it again. Apparently, the old apple cart is obviously not the place to hide their documents, because here is another one. It is interesting to note that the MJ-12 bunch have not gotten more careful or any smarter over their 50 years of existence. As shown, in SOM 1-01, they cannot figure out how to mount a simple military operation, screen overhead observation, establish a chain of command, protect the site, establish standard of performance, establish supporting relationship, perform simple technical intelligence tasks, etc., etc. They could, however, figure out how pack a box well, that is if it were under ordinary conditions. Let's look at MJ-12's progress (or lack of): "Eyes only" now unless you read Braille you are going to use your eyes. "Eyes Only" To whom does this apply? If MJ-12 can't get this straight, they can't get anything straight. Now, when Ronald Wilson Reagan became president, one of the things that he was concerned with was security. He put out a rather simple security directive. The implementation required certain items go into classified documents, and also the format conform to certain procedures. (This was to insure there would be no repeat of the of Ellsberg trail. The procedures implemented would insure that classified items were indeed classified without any wiggle room for lawyers to question.) It might be, just might be, possible that security officials, especially ones as stupid and careless as MJ-12 officials are constantly shown to be, to leave out something in early documents. Not under Reagan! Reagan changed and simplified the security procedures for classified documents. There is no questions that documents must have the classifying authority, the declassifying information, they must be marked top and bottom, they must be portion mark the paragraphs (i.e. at the beginning of each paragraph and subparagraph are marked with the appropriate classifications whether or not portions are of the same classification as the whole document.) Now, from the latest document it is obvious that MJ-12 cannot follow simple procedure security procedures. One thing must be said for MJ-12, when they screw up they do it big, and right in front the man who promulgated the security procedures. Top Secret documents will have a control number, indicate what copy of how many copy, the title will have a short title either unclassified or of a lower classification for reference. Well, it is okay to mess up on presidential document like an Executive Order. No one will have you jerk it back and do it correctly. After all MJ-12 is known to be the place where you put the people who can't get much of anything right. We have to cut them some slack. Now we know that MJ-12 can't learn new tricks because they had all this hardware under their control, but it took Corso to get all the technology out. No doubt the MJ-12 security manager was flailed alive with dull knife and his hide turned in seat cover for the current security managers chair so he would remember to follow security procedures for classified documents. -- Jan Aldrich P. S. Mars Jupiter-12 is a nice touch. However, under official NATO phonetic alphabet "Mike Juliet" is correct, and if we are using the type of thing, which seems out of place in an Executive Order, it would be alphanumeric Mike-Juilet-One-Two. Poor MJ-12, the author should have changed their name, also. BTW Why didn't the author change MJ-12's designation? He was suppose to according government security agents who said he could do so in a FICTION work as long as the names were changed?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 19 Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:14:39 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 12:57:51 -0400 Subject: Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? >From: ufotruth@ix.netcom.com [William Hand] >Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 15:02:08 -0500 (CDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: A DIRECT MESSAGE TO Serge Salvaille ABOUT THE NEW MJ12 DOCUMENTS!!!!!!! William, Let me see: >[...] They said he could but >the book would have to be FICTION, he could not release any >classified information that HE knew about personally, and >the NAMES of the individuals would have to be changed. >So, to both prevent him from going to prison and to protect >everyone who gave him information he wrote the book in a fiction >format. [...] >He recieved the MJ12 documents from one of his friends whose >uncle (if I remember correctly) who was high up in the NSA, >gave to him. >So for your information these ARE NEW MJ-12 documents [...] >SO we have NEW MJ12 documents. What are everyones opinion about >them? If I understand you correctly: 1. Edgar Rothschild Fouche co-wrote a book that contains no classified information he knows about personally. He did this to avoid prison. It is thus all third-party information and Fouche will never be able to corroborate the information in his own book. Consequently... 2. The MJ12 documents mentioned in the book are authentic classified documents. !?!????? Am I missing something here ? If you go to sightings.com for more info on the MJ12 docs, you will find extracts of the MJ12 documents that are contained in THE book - which BTW cannot contain classified information Fouche personally knows about otherwise he will go to jail. It must be me. Or else, somebody must have put something in my coffee this morning. Serge Salvaille
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 19 Re: Strieber on CSPAN? From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 13:17:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 14:11:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? >From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> >Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 21:44:30 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Strieber on CSPAN? >On Whitley Strieber's web site: >http://www.strieber.com >Whitley's latest journal entry says that his recent book >signing/lecture at the Pentagon book store will be broadcast >on CSPAN. Does anybody know how to find out when this >might air? Does anybody have any info. on this? Actually, >I'm too lazy to look up the phone number and call myself. <snip> >One really interesting story is one he has not talked about a lot >in public. I had never heard about it. He talks about when he >believes his "implant" or whatever it is, was put into his ear. >This involved humans (Black Project?) and possibly another >intelligence. It's a really good read and I suggest it highly! >Strieber's theory on what the visitors, if that's what's going on, >might be doing here is something that rings true in my heart. >Of course, we may never know why and may never have proof. >Who knows? >Joe Murgia Strieber has gone up in my opinion dramatically after Secret School and Confirmation. He seems to have gotten a grip on himself, and on what has been happening around/to him. He dropped a couple of little things into Secret School which are real sleepers, and tipoffs about the reality of his experiences. I've never met the man except on the net, but would very much like to now. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 19 Re: Phenomenon # 8 - Part 2 From: John <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 13:29:47 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 14:13:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Phenomenon # 8 - Part 2 >Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 01:45:59 -0700 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Alien origins >>From: RAMBLD@worldnet.att.net [Diane] >>To: agent4u@mindspring.com >>From: Bob Tidwell <bob.t@mindspring.com> >>Subject: Phenomenon # 8 - Part 2 >> I have been lurking on this list off and on, ><snip> >> ... . Bob Tidwell's "story" about the Greys got to me >> enough though to risk going out on a limb a bit. >> This tale of the Greys basically being future humans, and the >> whole story of evolution and reproduction problems that they are >> addressing by coming back in time to us, is exactly what they >> told me, without so much detail. >Dear Diane: >I have been cataloging UFO sightings, including (published) >abductions, for around 15 years. >This is my opinion only of course, but I now believe that one of >the LAST things an alien will tell you or anyone else is where >they come from .. be it the Future, someplace in space, another >dimension or whatever. I lean toward the nuts-and-bolts and ET >interpretation, but I'm open to the other options. >I see a clear and consistent pattern of mis, dis, and non- >information, so complete and compelling that so-called >"government conspirators", assuming they exist at all, can only >stand in awe. >Best wishes >- Larry Hatch =============== Hi Larry, hi All, I tend to agree with your assessment. 1. Any information that is obtained from an alleged alien encounter cannot/should not be trusted. (For a million and one reasons) 2. I agree that UFOs (and their occupants) are a 'nuts and bolts' phenomenon. 3. The gubbamint doesn't need to spend any money on "mis, dis, or non information" the public is providing that service for free. Between the Art Bells, the chanellers, some contactees, and certain so-called researchers, more BS per square acre is being spread around than anyone can keep up with. They couldn't spread their BS any faster if they had access to large, mechanized, manure spreading farming implements and heavy duty wading boots. Mostly thanks to the internet. Who needs to spend money on something that they can get for free. The internet must be the best thing that ever happened to anyone whose job it is to cover up the truth. >so-called "government conspirators", assuming they exist at all, >can only stand in awe. You bet! I know that I am. And, . . . the manure pile just keeps-a-growin! <G> Peace, John Velez, SOS (on the - Side Of Sanity) ___________________________________________________________________________ AIC INTERACTIVE CONFERENCE WWW.IF-AIC.COM jvif@spacelab.net ___________________________________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 19 Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist, Ufology' From: J H Peterson <jpeterson@means.net> [Candy Peterson] Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 07:15:09 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 12:55:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist, Ufology' >>From: SGB List 2 <SGBList2@aol.com> >>Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 13:09:03 EDT >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Time to retire "UFOlogist, UFOlogy" >Why give the uninitiated another reason to roll their eyes in our >general direction? >And why are there those among us who insist on using an >apostrophe 's' when referring to more than one UFO? As in >"UFO's"? >ebk Hello all, It's not without reason that people use an apostrophe when referring to several flying saucers [tee-hee], and it has nothing to do with the British "greengrocer's genitive" either. It is grammatically correct to write "UFO's" according to at least two references: 8. PUNCTUATION ... Apostrophes and possessives ... 8.11. In addition to illustrating possession, an apostrophe is used to indicate contractions, the omission of figures or letters...and the coined plurals of letters, figures, and symbols. some select examples: Btu's <---- YMCA's <---- OK's <---- ABC's <---- it's (it is) (it has) a's; 7's class of '92 T's, Y's three R's 2 by 4's (lumber) 4-H'ers 49'ers From _A Manual of Style_ (A Guide to the Basics of Good Writing), page 118. Prepared by the U.S. Government Printing Office. ISBN: 0-517-60526-0 Also, _The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language_ lists this usage under the entry for "plural": Terms made up of single letters or numbers, or groups as two R's (or Rs), two 6's (or 6s), GI's (or GIs), the 1930's (or 1930s) Apparently both forms {UFO's (or UFOs)} are correct, though the general trend has been to use fewer punctuation marks. Let's not get too persnickety about apostrophes when there is a universe of other options for us to squabble endlessly about. ;) --Candy Peterson, who wishes the answer to the UFO puzzle would be just as easy to find in reference books. www.avesta.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 19 Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:27:48 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 13:59:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' >Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 07:04:31 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' >I don't really mind UFO and/or Ufologist all that much, and it is >commonly understood. >What I object to is the idiotic statements that this or that has >been proved about UFOs. NOTHING has been proved. All we have is >masses of subjective reports, many of them mutually >contradictive. So far not one shred of proven physical >evidence. >It is highly unscientific to insist on extraterrestrial origins >for something that we know so very little about. >Bob Bob, and all- This entire thread was started when it was suggested that the term UFOlogist (or Ufologist, if you prefer) was misleading. However, the overall response seems to have indicated that most of us believe that they remain "unidentified" and are thus correctly labeled. This, once again, points to the fact that the field of study we call "UFOlogy" is not well defined and includes numerous theories that are effectively inconsistent with each other. In other words, we can't all be right. Unfortunately, I also see little evidence of a common methodology of resolving the differences that seem to tear this "genre" apart. Stephen Bassett, who started this discussion, is part of The Paradigm Research Group, which is described as Washington's only UFO lobbying group. I have to add that he has aligned himself with a number of figures that many of us would describe as near the fringe, which I find unfortunate at a time what a valid lobbying effort might actually be useful. On Capitol Hill there are a couple of publications that carry "Hill" news to staffers, lobbyists, and others, and one of them (published each Wednesday) is known as "The Hill". Last week I found an interesting article published last week in that newspaper that was the result of a Press Release from The Paradigm Research Group, and I thought some might find it of interest: ======== X-FILES TO BE RELEASED UFO group says government will tell all it knows about aliens Any Capitol Hill staffers engaged in the official government UFO conspiracy, take note: A leading UFO lobbying group believes that you are about to reveal to the world the existence of alien intelligence. Better polish off those press releases. The Paradigm Research Group, a Maryland-based firm that pushes for attention on the UFO issue, has launch a Web site to track how close the governments of the world are to admitting their knowledge of the aliens. Modeled after the anti-nuclear movement's "Doomsday Clock", the "Paradigm Clock" measures in minutes to midnight how the official declassification process is going. According to a press release from the group, the clock is currently set at three minutes to midnight, because "formal disclosure is at hand." ========== The Paradigm Research Group's WEB site is apparently located at http://www.anagramvideo.com/bassett/ad.html The Paradigm Clock can be found at: http://www.paradigmclock.com/ ========== This short article was located on The Hill's "Open Secrets" page, which takes a humorous view of the Hill. In short, the newspaper treated this as a silly story designed to put a smile on the faces of staffers, rather than inform anyone of serious news. Knowing how the media uses this type of story as "filler", I have no idea what the original Press Release said, but the manner in which this has been handled (by all involved) has helped to paint UFOlogy as a silly science that is pursued by kooks and loonies. We have enough trouble gaining respectibility in the eyes of the public at large (except for our entertainment value) and I wish there was some way we could keep from adding fuel to these negative fires. Steve Kaeser
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 19 Re: E.T.H. - Extremely Tenuous Hypothesis From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Tue, 19 May 98 10:49:15 PDT Fwd Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 14:06:22 -0400 Subject: Re: E.T.H. - Extremely Tenuous Hypothesis > From: "Mark Pilkington" <markp@syzygy.net> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: E.T.H. - Extremely Tenuous Hypothesis > Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:42:55 +0100 > http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/news/clark.html > E.T.H. - Extremely Tenuous Hypothesis > John Rimmer > The major part of the book is an attack on the 'New-Ufology' > ideas of the sixties and seventies, particularly the works of > John Keel and Jacques Vallee. Clark himself, like many Americans > now settled into middle-aged, middle-class conformity, has > problems about the nineteen-sixties. Clark's historicist view of > ufology sees it emerging from the original sightings and contacts > in the 'forties into two separate strands of thought: the > 'saucerians' - pro-contact, space-brothers oriented, and the > 'ufologists', scientific and sceptical of contact claims. There > is a great deal of truth in this, although the separation between > the two streams was never as total as Clark believes, and he has > rather starry-eyed views on the scientific rigour of the > 'ufologists'. At one point he claims: "To [ufologists] the ETH > was something more to be assumed than to be speculated about > [true, but hardly scientific]. Ufology's best and brightest had > more interest in investigating reports and correlating data than > in wondering about the Greater Meaning of it All". In your > dreams, Jerry! In yours, John. What's striking about the psychosocial hypothesis (PSH, or Purely Speculative Hypothesis) is its advocates' disdain for the pragmatic business of investigation and documentation. Of course there is a lot of silliness, naivete, and gullibility over the course of UFO history. No one knows that better than I, having read probably more UFO literature than all but a small handful of my fellow humans; see the 93 pages of small-print bibliography in my just-published The UFO Encyclopedia, 2nd Ed.: The Phenomenon from the Beginning. That, however, is not the end of the story, much as the PSH types desire it to be so; there also a bunch of firstrate investigations conducted by the heroes, sung and unsung, of ufology. If the PSH types are aware of their existence, they are maintaining a tactful silence on the matter. The fact that they don't want this stuff to exist won't make it go away. It is also true, as I wrote and as John would know if he had made the effort, that in ufology's early days the ETH was more often assumed than speculated about. Even I was surprised to find that out. While I was researching the UFO Encyclopedia, I was pleased to see, often buried deeply in NICAP and other archives, thick files on case investigations, in which the investigator or investigators left no stone unturned. No airy pronouncements from the armchair, but richly informed judgments from the field. In this sort of material (as in Blue Book records, Condon files, and elsewhere) one finds the core of the case for UFOs as anomalous physical phenomena apparently under intelligent control. I am amused to find myself labeled a "conformist" and an "ardent" supporter of the ETH. Reading stuff like this, I am reminded again of why, long ago, I abandoned ideology for pragmatism. The latter didn't force me to reinvent the world to conform to my own biases. > In fact it would be hard to find a UFO magazine in the fifties > and sixties which did not from time to time waste a great deal of > paper in vague, speculative rambling articles - what Hilary Evans > memorably describes as 'deserts of arid speculation' - about life > and the universe. The magazines that didn't, presumably Clark's > data correlators, were simply listings of cases; mostly > uninvestigated reports from newspapers. These were, and are > still, very useful in their way, but hardly represent the 'hard > work and shrewd analysis' which Clark claims as a hallmark of the > scientific 'ufologists'. For a full account of how ufologists (beginning with Fort) have treated the ETH, read "Extraterrestrial Hypothesis and Ufology," which appears in The UFO Encyclopedia, 2nd Ed. (374-93). An abridged version of the same essay appears in the trade paperback The UFO Book (199-218). As is typical of PSH writing, the above bears some passing relationship to some things, and none whatever to others. In short, speculation in the UFO literature has covered the spectrum: from the naive and crazy to the sober and intriguing. Having spent a good part of the last year reading SETI literature, most of it written by credentialed scientists, I can say pretty much the same of that literature. Until we know a whole lot more than we know now about extraterrestrial life, that is likely to remain the case. > This cosy sub-division of the subject came under threat in the > seventies with the rise of two of Clark's principal betes-noir, > John Keel and Jacques Vallee. I agree that Keel was responsible > for introducing a new element of anti-scientific irrationalism > into the field of ufology, and in Magonia's '25 Years Ago' > columns you will have read how Alan Sharp regularly locked horns > with Keel over his lack of scientific credibility. In Keel's > favour it must be said that his investigations (and when all is > said he probably did more first-hand investigation than most > so-called scientific 'ufologists') opened out the field of > ufology, and yes, Clark is right, helped undermine the complacent > acceptance of the ETH amongst most ufologists. > Vallee is a scientist, and his first two books are still held up > as examples of the kind of 'correlative' work that Clark assumes > was the standard for ufologists at the time. The fact that they > are still worth reading simply serves to demonstrate how little > of that type of work was actually going on then. With Passport to > Magonia Vallee moved into the realm of 'sixties counterculture', > in Clark's view. I suspect that most of Vallee's interest in > ufology was fulfilled by the time he published Invisible College > in the late seventies, and his later books are largely re-hashes > or diaries of his more productive period. In The UFO Encyclopedia I have written extensively about Keel, Vallee, and paranormal/occult UFO theories. Again, interested readers are urged to go there for a full expression of my views. > The real problem for Clark's thesis with both these writers is > that they showed that the UFO phenomenon was not containable in a > simple ETH pigeonhole. The problem was one of perception: the > perception of what constituted a UFO report. Clark castigates FSR > for carrying articles by the likes of F W Holiday about the Loch > Ness Monster, and certainly they were tedious enough to read at > the time. But at least they were able to demonstrate that the ETH > was not the only unproven theory that could be hung around the > phenomenon. The ETH, right or wrong, is a perfectly respectable scientific theory, as Michael Swords (conspicuously absent in the anti-ETH broadsides from PSHers) has demonstrated in his long surveys of the exobiological literature. Theories that attribute UFO, paranormal, and anomalous phenomena to demons would strike most of us as a tad on the irrational side. > But we are simply told that "as eventually became all > too apparent" the theory was suitable only for the dreaded > librarians who wrote about ufology as "an exercise in literary > criticism". This, of course, is the principal problem of the PSH. It is ufology reduced to literary criticism. Having been an English major myself and a lifelong devotee of literature, I am all in favor of literary criticism, and I know it when I see. I even think it has its role in the discussion of UFO issues. Where the PSH types go wrong is in believing, strangely, that literary criticism when applied to all UFO issues possesses explanatory power. Another reason I left the fold, for which apostacy I fear I will never be forgiven. > I think part of the reason why Clark has abdicated on his attempt > to counter the PSH is that, despite such writers as Martin > Kottmeyer and one or two other contributors to Fortean rather > than ufological literature, it has never really been seriously > promoted in the USA, and as is becoming clearer and clearer, > American ufology like much of American society is tremendously > insular. Here we get the whiff of Ameriphobia which always seems to turn up in PSH polemic. > This is understandable in a such a huge and diverse > country, but it does reduce the range of influences and ideas > which impinge on US ufology Hey, John, has it ever occurred to you that we have looked at the PSH arguments and found them unconvincing? Or that the first full-length book to use PSH-like arguments -- Clark and Coleman's The Unidentified (1975) -- was published here in this poor, insular country? Could it be that there is an explanation for American ufologists' rejection of the PSH that does not happen to suit your convenience? > On the last page this book is revealed as a prop for the ETH. > Clark admits that humans do perceive a remarkable range of > anomalous experiences: "as... psychosocial theorist rightly > remind us... gods, monsters fairies, even merfolk... we can grant > the legitimacy of fantastic experience without taking the further > step of confusing it with event", I love that sly use of the verb "admits." The sort of rhetorical flim-flammery one encounters often in PSH discourse. > except of course for UFOs. The > core UFO phenomenon is the "daylight disc, radar/visual and > landing traces (and, perhaps crash/retrieval)". The ETH, in these > case has been shown to be "reasonable, testable and meaningful. > At the least it has demonstrated the presence of a physical > phenomenon with a technlogy which interacts with its immediate > environment." And of course I stand by that. These sorts of cases always leave the PSH flailing. Few PSH types even possess the technical training to investigate them or understand the implications of the evidence. That doesn't stop them from dismissing them wholesale, arms flailing all the while. My position on the ETH is far more qualified and nuanced than anything I have seen among the hard-line dogmatists of the PSH. My position is simply that the ETH is, "right or wrong, a reasonable reading of the most evidential reports." I don't claim it is proved; I simply hold that it is a reasonable provisional hypothesis, and I think most thoughtful people would agree. I am far less obsessed with final explanations and conclusive causes than John and his cohorts are. At the same time I hold the view -- which, if they held it too, would save the PSH types a lot of trouble -- that not all of what we call UFO phenomena are the same thing. I discuss this issue in detail in the essay "On Anomalous Phenomenona" in my Unexplained! (1993) and in abbreviated form in the introduction to the new encyclopedia (xii-xiii). I really think we ought to be more modest about what we think we know, and that should go for everybody who wants to call ufology "extraterrestrial research" to those who claim, with no empirical justification to speak of, that anything not otherwise accountable for can be contained in a Purely Speculative Hypothesis and swept out the door. For a full history and critique of the PSH, see my Encyclopedia, 749-59, or The UFO Book, 492-504. For solid cases which remain puzzling after extensive investigation and analysis, see those books, too. (You might be particularly interested in the entry on the RB-47 case.) They also contain extensive bibliographic references so that those whose minds are not shut tight as mousetraps can learn more. In a sense, of course, one can't help envying John and the Purely Speculative crowd. They have all the answers. I, on the other hand, am still searching. I suspect most of the rest of you are, too. Cheers, Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 19 Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Tue, 19 May 98 14:49:47 PDT Fwd Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 19:19:37 -0400 Subject: Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? > Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:50:09 -0700 > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: New MJ-12 Document > >From: ufotruth@ix.netcom.com [William Hand] > >Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 15:02:08 -0500 (CDT) > >Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 22:33:50 -0400 > >Subject: Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: New 'MJ-12' Documents? > >Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:08:15 +0600 > >Serge Salvaille, > >There ARE NEW MJ12 documents! The authors of the book > >"ALIEN RAPTURE" are Edgar Rothschild Fouche' and Brad Steiger. > >Edgar Rothschild Fouche' had been in many black projects and > >classified projects for many years. After retiring from working > >for various government agencies he made a group of friends who > >had also worked in various black projects. They got together > >and talked several times about UFO/ET information, advanced > >technology, and black projects. > >He wanted to write a book about all of this information so he > >approached certain people in the military/government and asked > >them if he could write a book about it. They said he could but > >the book would have to be FICTION, he could not release any > >classified information that HE knew about personally, and > >the NAMES of the individuals would have to be changed. > Ah, a new way to declassify information! Just make it FICTION > and change the names. Why if someone had the OVERLORD plans, > and they just changed the names, then Eisenhower would not > have been upset about having D-Day blown. How cool government > security agents have become! Hi, Jan and everybody, The absurdity of the claim of fiction as truth concealed reminds me of a far-rightwing novel I read in high school, The Pentagon Case, by the pseudonymous Victor J. Fox. As I recall it, Fox claimed to have been a military officer who discovered that the Pentagon was so riddled with Communist sympathizers that it was in effect an agent of Soviet foreign policy. Unable to expose the truth in the way the truth is ordinarily exposed (as, for example, nonfiction), he decided to blow the whistle through the medium of a novel. Even as a callow youth I recall laughing out loud at the sheer brazenness of the scam. Cheers, Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 19 Re: Phenomenon # 8 - Part 2 From: Bob Tidwell <bob.t@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 17:21:27 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 19:37:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Phenomenon # 8 - Part 2 >Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 01:45:59 -0700 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Alien origins >>From: RAMBLD@worldnet.att.net [Diane] >>To: agent4u@mindspring.com >>From: Bob Tidwell <bob.t@mindspring.com> >>Subject: Phenomenon # 8 - Part 2 >> I have been lurking on this list off and on, ><snip> >> This tale of the Greys basically being future humans, and the >> whole story of evolution and reproduction problems that they are >> addressing by coming back in time to us, is exactly what they >> told me, without so much detail. >Dear Diane: >I have been cataloging UFO sightings, including (published) >abductions, for around 15 years. >This is my opinion only of course, but I now believe that one of >the LAST things an alien will tell you or anyone else is where >they come from .. be it the Future, someplace in space, another >dimension or whatever. I lean toward the nuts-and-bolts and ET >interpretation, but I'm open to the other options. Also being a nuts-and -bolts type of investigator, I tend to agree with Larry on this. But, they've also told abductees that they are from other worlds, so should we not consider them as ETs either, or should we make a list of the star systems that they sometimes refer to as home, in hopes of discovering the correct one? Another project might be to make a list of everything that we been told by them, and see what's left. >I see a clear and consistent pattern of mis, dis, and non- >information, so complete and compelling that so-called >"government conspirators", assuming they exist at all, can only >stand in awe. In order for the mis/dis/non-information game to best function, there has to be a grain of truth involved. The trouble is in determining which grain that is. I've been investigating and collecting data on strange phenomena for over 30 years, but I admit that I'm not an expert on abductions, so for the time being I'll just have to respect Diane's and Larry's experience and expertize on this. Regards, Bob Tidwell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 19 Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist, Ufology' From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 17:59:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 19:33:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist, Ufology' >Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 07:15:09 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: J H Peterson <jpeterson@means.net> [Candy Peterson] >Subject: Re: Time to retire [UFO's, U.F.O.s, flying saucers] >>>From: SGB List 2 <SGBList2@aol.com> >>>Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 13:09:03 EDT >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>Subject: Time to retire "UFOlogist, UFOlogy" >>Why give the uninitiated another reason to roll their eyes in our >>general direction? >>And why are there those among us who insist on using an >>apostrophe 's' when referring to more than one UFO? As in >>"UFO's"? >>ebk >Hello all, >It's not without reason that people use an apostrophe when >referring to several flying saucers [tee-hee], and it has nothing >to do with the British "greengrocer's genitive" either. >It is grammatically correct to write "UFO's" according to at >least two references: > 8. PUNCTUATION ... > Apostrophes and possessives <snip> Ah yes, but prepared by the U.S.GOVERNMENT!!! What would you expect them to say??? Obviously this entry was inserted by MJ-12 to throw us off the track. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 19 Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles From: Marty Garza <laquinta@rgv.net> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 15:25:22 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 19:37:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >From: "Matthews" <matthews@zetnet.co.uk> [Tim Matthews] >Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 02:13:43 +0100 >Fwd Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 19:02:18 -0400 >Subject: Re: Talking Sense About Flying Triangles >Lecturing in the UK and talking to people I get the impression >that people WANT to believe this ET stuff - without any >evidence. >Let's look at some solutions...... While I do agree that a certain percentage of the general populous does indeed blindly "WANT to believe this ET stuff", there are many of us who let the evidence lead where it may. As such I learned long ago to be skeptical of individuals claiming to have all the answers. I am well versed in ongoing black aviation research and development and am aware that many "UFO" sightings are attributable to such development. However, I believe you are guilty of the same polarization of the UFO phenomenon as you ascribe to the 'ET Believers', albeit with your own agenda. Your argument basically follows as such: Government (A) is believed to be developing aircraft (V). UFO Witness 1 observes * UFO Witness 2 observes # UFO Witness 3 observes v UFO Witness 4 observes * UFO Witness 5 observes X As there is, in your opinion, reasonable evidence to support the existence of aircraft (V) it is fair to attribute the sighting by witness 3 to that of aircraft (V). In addition the sighting by witness 5 bares some vague resemblance to aircraft (V) therefor you may also attribute this to aircraft (V) and the discrepancies to shortcomings in the witness's powers of observation. Witness 2 is a kook. That leaves us with witnesses 1 & 3. As they both describe a similar object, this must therefor be attributable to development by Government A, the only known developer of UFOs (i.e. secret aircraft). However, the above information does not paint the entire picture. There are other facts to consider which may lead to other conclusions. >1) Large triangular UFOs as LTA (lighter-than-air) hybrid >airships. > >Glorified blimps if you like. Not only did the Aereon Company >have these things in mind as early as 1967, but more recently >the AF 2025 study undertaken by the Air University of America >(with the support and cooperation of many of the major players >within the military-industrial complex, see opening pages of >report)suggested the use of stealthy airships in order to move >huge loads in a hostile environment. > >The use of an LTA vehicle could be rather a good thing given the >use of composites in construction which would significantly >reduce the radar signature of the craft (it is not the size of >the craft that determines its RCS). Let us consider the time line problems inherent in your hypothesis.... On April 15, 1980, 8 Delta Force troops died in a failed attempt (Operation Eagle Claw) to rescue 52 American hostages held captive in Tehran, Iran. This led to what Nick Cook of Jane's Defence Weekly described as "a desperate response to a very desperate situation.", the development and ill fated testing of makeshift C-130 STOL rescue aircraft (Credible Sport) in September & October of that same year. This conflict demonstrated a need for a special ops VTOL/STOL airlifter which clearly did not exist at that time. During that same period Northrop engineers were busy upstaging Lockheed's Skunkworks by developing the first 3D stealth design. The fruit of this labor (Tacit Blue) rolled out of a hanger for it's maiden flight in February 1982. This led to the development of the B2 and a number of other acknowledged and unacknowledged aircraft. The need for a special ops VTOL airlifter and the development of stealth technology met in a proposal in November 1988 which (it is believed) led to the development of Senior Citizen/Theme Castle. Now, between December 31, 1982 and July 10, 1986 there were at least 38 overflight of the Hudson Valley observed by over 7000 residents which you credit to an aircraft which evidence indicates did not exist at the time. Furthermore, as the Hudson Valley sightings consisted of at least two similar (air)craft observed simultaneously, and as sightings of similar (air)craft were reported elsewhere, this would suggest operational status of said (air)craft. Even if an advanced airlifter was placed under development near the end of 1980 it surely would not have been operational by the end of 1982, never mind the fact that 3D stealth had only taken to the sky for the first time 10 months prior. Beyond the timeline problems there are performance problems as well. The Hudson Valley craft was often witnessed hovering even in a strong head wind and sometimes vertically on it's nose. It was often seen rotating 360 degrees on it's own axis. It was occasionally seen hovering over the Ossining Reservoir and other bodies of water in that area about 15 feet above the surface projecting a red beam down into the water. Witnesses report that the craft would do this for a few minutes and then move to another area of the water and do the same. The craft was also reported on several occasions to accelerate at tremendous speed, traveling from almost directly overhead to the horizon in approximately 2 seconds. Other witnesses reported observing a bright red sphere depart from the main body of the craft also flying off at tremendous speed, then returning a few minutes later. Is this performance indicative of an LTA? Then of course there is the obvious question...Why take what was at the time one of the most closely guarded US military secrets and adorn it with multicolored "rotating prism" type lights and fly it over one of the most densely populated areas of the US for such an extended period of time? >I have looked into this subject in as much detail as possible >and it would seem that Lockheed had a similar proposal in mind >in the late 1970s. I need more information on this. However, >Michael Waldens' airships in the USA have been saucer-shaped and >flown despite a very limited budget for what amounts to a >private venture. Some work he undertook for the military back in >1976/77 was classified by the NSA. If an (air)craft with such capabilities existed by 1980 why did President Carter endanger (destroy) his bid for re-election by embarrassing himself as well as the entire US military with the ill fated attempt to rescue the hostages by other means? And, why the need for the frantic development of Credible Sport? Why not simply utilize an LTA or better yet the (air)craft which so handily made a mockery of the Iranian air force on September 19, 1976? >In my forthcoming book I conclude that a similar craft was >responsible for the over 5,000 sightings of the boomerang-shaped >'UFO'. If you put powerful lights on the underside of one of >these craft it would be easy to confuse ground witnesses. Blue Book, NICAP, MUFON, etc's files are chalked full of 50s & 60s era flying V formations. Next consider the fact that the Hudson Valley UFO sightings were not limited to V but Check Mark and Circular formations as well. And again this was not the first sighting of such configurations. For example: On February 25, 1893 Captain Charles J. Norcock and members of the crew of the H.M.S. Caroline while traveling near Cheju Island observed for several hours an object(s) which he described as "globes of fire" in "a crescent or diamond, or hang(ing) festoon- fashion in a curved line." Then on February 25, 1942 at 2:30 a.m. air raid sirens blared in the city of Los Angeles, California sparked by what air raid warden Raymond Angier described as "A formation of six to nine luminous, white dots in triangular formation (which were) visible in the northwest. The formation moved painfully slowly - you might call it leisurely - as if it were oblivious to the whole stampede it had created." The following night at 2:15 a.m. a blackout was ordered for the entire California coast from San Luis Obispo to the Mexican border as the UFO was tracked on radar again heading for Los Angeles. At 3:05 a.m. the UFO reached the city and overflew munitions plants along the coast sparking a barrage of anti-aircraft fire which lasted until 4:15 a.m.. After the 5 hour blackout was finally lifted, five people were killed as a result of the incident. On August 25, 1951 an AEC (Atomic Energy Commission) employee with "Q" clearance along with his wife observed a "flying wing" shaped (air)craft one and a half times larger than a B-36 flying over their home near Albuquerque, NM.. It was described as having 6 to 8 pairs of lights along it's underside. This is believed to be the same object photographed over Lubbock, TX by Carl Hart Jr. on Aug. 31, 1951. Betty and Barney Hill described observing a "winged disc" with red, amber, green, and blue lights prior to their alleged abduction on September 19, 1961 near Lincoln, New Hampshire. The (air)craft was tracked on radar by Pease AFB and possibly Concord AFS. Air Force report No. 100-1-61 states: "During periods of observation wings seemed to appear from the main body. Described as V-shaped with red lights on tips. Later, wings appeared to extend further." Blue Book also caries a sighting report from Marshfield, Missouri dated September 22, 1954 in which two witnesses stated: "This object was somewhat like a boomerang in shape with the exception that one side or wing was very short and the other side or wing much longer." The objects behavior is also familiar as described by the witnesses: "It revolved very slowly, the entire object revolved, not just the one wing....When this object stopped its rotating and started to fall the wing or rotor was pointed up indicating the base of this wing which would be the body - the heaviest part. At no time was there much speed involved in any fashion." >>2) Flying triangles as high-speed reconnaissance aircraft. >>Check out all the reports about possible hypersonic waveriders >>and tell me what shape they are - wedge-shaped, triangular. >>dart-shaped. Sound like UFOs? >>Er.........Yes... I'd like to see a waverider or any other hypersonic a/c hover, stand on end, make hard edged 90 degree+ turns, etc... >What amazes me is how little interest the UFO community takes in >this type of research. It is detailed and we even have generic >stealth concepts produced by British Aerospace and GEC-Marconi >which show 'future' UAVs exactly the same as those UFOs reported >here for the last few years!! Therein lies the flaw in your theory. These are objects which have been reported not for the last few years but for at least the last 5 decades and arguably throughout history. Ford and Chevrolet build cars but that doesn't mean they invented the automobile. >In addition to this we have several declassified studies from >the 1950s stating that a flying saucer might form the basis of >an interceptor aircraft based upon electrostatic propulsion. >That was then and no doubt they had problems. What about now 40 >years later given billions of dollars of secret funding and the >opportunity for scientists to develop new technologies without >the usual restraints? The pioneer of such propulsion, Thomas Townsend Brown, demonstrated his proof of concept "airfoils" for the Air Force for the first time in 1952. This led to the proposal for Project Winterhaven, a supersonic disc. During the development leading up to this, Brown tested a variety of shapes in order to optimize the performance of his electrogravitic propulsion designs. He found the disk shape most advantageous. Coincidentally (?) we have many other 50s & 60s designs such as Silverbug, Avrocar, etc. based on this same shape. Yet, other than in a reconnaissance role, there is no evidence of these disks ever being used in battle. However Project Sign, Grudge, & Blue Book are filled with an extensive number of reports of disks which greatly predate any of these proposals. >I must conclude that given this information, which is but a >fraction of the overall evidence, that there is NO evidence that >either flying saucers or flying triangles are of ET origin. In >any case, both types are for use WITHIN an atmosphere. One cannot arrive at a valid conclusion without considering ALL of the available data. The history of terrestrial aeronautical development indicates that the performance capabilities and characteristics manifest in UFOs all but eliminates the possibility that these are all man made objects (especially many of those reported during the 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s). When considered in conjunction with the intelligent control exhibited by these UFOs what we are left with strongly suggests an intelligently controlled technology. As no terrestrial manufacturer has yet been identified in 50 years of investigation which can account for the UFO phenomenon, and as ET life in the Universe is virtually assured, the hypothesis that SOME UFOs are ET spacecraft becomes a distinct possibility. This conclusion was supported by Project Blue Book which undertook an investigation into the motion and flight characteristics exhibited by many UFOs in order to determine whether they were intelligently controlled. This investigation's findings were presented to the Robertson Panel and "concluded that the UFOs were interplanetary spaceships." Maj. Dewey Fournet, former Pentagon Monitor of Project Blue Book stated "The way they change position in formations and override each other would indicate that their motion is directed." This conclusion paralleled that made previously by Project Sign in their August 1948 'Estimate of the Situation', which also reportedly concluded that UFOs were interplanetary in origin. I, like yourself, find the black a/c development and UFO parallels quite interesting. However there are no simple one size fits all answers to the questions posed by the UFO phenomenon. Marty G.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 19 Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:31:00 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 19:17:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' >Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 07:04:31 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' >I don't really mind UFO and/or Ufologist all that much, and it is >commonly understood. >What I object to is the idiotic statements that this or that has >been proved about UFOs. NOTHING has been proved. All we have is >masses of subjective reports, many of them mutually >contradictive. So far not one shred of proven physical >evidence. Bob, You really need to say what would or should constitute proof in your eyes. If a UFO with aliens landed and allowed themselves to be taken prisoner, and if this all got into the news before it had a chance to be hushed up or covered up by disinformation, and if there were plenty of witnesses to it and videos of it, would you consider this to be 100% evidence of the existence of a UFO, i.e. proof?, or 99.999% evidence or what? Let's assume that the humanoid-appearing aliens or their killed bodies were however wisked away by governmental authorities, as that would hardly be handled otherwise. As you might surmise, dyed-in-the-wool ufologists would insist that material samples of the UFO be tested in labs before any decision be made, even if the witnesses and videos reported that it had hovered without noise before landing. And the labs, if they couldn't determine what the material/alloy was that they had on hand, would just say they hadn't come to any determination yet, after months or years. If isotopic analysis indicated non-earthly isotope ratios, this would be treated by some the same way the NM sample that Russell Vernon-Clark analyzed. And of course the idea would be promoted that this was just new military technology being tested over an urban area to see how the citizens would react. So the skeptic who listened to what the most outspoken ufologists had to say might be 97% convinced it was a genuine ET UFO, but not 100%. So it wouldn't be proof for them. Just what then would constitute proof for you?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 19 Re: 'MJ-12' Documents? From: eotl@west.net [Jeff Rense] Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 17:11:07 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 22:03:37 -0400 Subject: Re: 'MJ-12' Documents? >From: KRandle993 <KRandle993@aol.com> [Kevin Randle] >Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:35:12 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: New 'MJ-12' Documents? ><snip> > >ULTRA TOP SECRET > >MJ-12 > >EYES ONLY Page 02 of 03 > Hi all - >I have waited for someone to point out what might be the fatal >flaw on this document (overlooking for the moment that it comes >out in a work of fiction - Stan, where are you? I thought you'd >be up front telling everyone this is fiction). >The classification at the top of the page should read TOP SECRET >- ULTRA... Ultra being the code word for this particular group of >documents. And, it should be noted that Top Secret - Ultra >refers, not to UFOs, but to code breaking efforts during the >Second World War. British and American intelligence officers were >regularly reading the coded messages of the Nazis and all were >classified as Top Secret - Ultra. Someone who didn't know his or >her history, and the way classifications worked, apparently that >that Ultra would by the highest of the top secret catagories, not >knowing what it really meant. >KRandle Posted for Edgar Fouche': Kevin Randle is absolutely correct. As I said on the radio, the documents were retyped and sanitized of certain names, and dates, which included the "designation" Classified-Top Secret, etc. I certainly did put the Ultra Top Secret on the document assuming that would be the classification. I do not profess to be an historian or document expert. But I felt it needed some type of classification, otherwise, who would believe it? Because of this document's inclusion in a work of fiction, I felt this was a necessary step. Furthermore, during the radio interview, I made it clear that I did not wish to be sent Classified Government documents in the first place...another reason it was sanitized. Edgar Fouche'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 19 Re: E.T.H. - Extremely Tenuous Hypothesis From: Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 20:58:18 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 22:06:17 -0400 Subject: Re: E.T.H. - Extremely Tenuous Hypothesis With the compliments of the Duke of Mendoza: >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: E.T.H. - Extremely Tenuous Hypothesis >Date: Tue, 19 May 98 10:49:15 PDT Very interesting post. Once upon a time there was another very interesting post, and a very interesting question was posed within it. Just to remind the goldfished of memory: >From: "Mark Pilkington" <markp@syzygy.net> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: E.T.H. - Extremely Tenuous Hypothesis >Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:42:55 +0100 >The core UFO phenomenon is the "daylight disc, radar/visual >and landing traces (and, perhaps crash/retrieval)". The ETH, >in these cases has been shown to be "reasonable, testable and >meaningful. At the least it has demonstrated the presence of >a physical phenomenon with a technology which interacts with >its immediate environment." >Well, Jerome, where are these cases? [...] >We are anxious to see those cases which show the ETH to be >reasonable and testable, and ask Jerome Clark, and any other >ufologist who claims such evidence to send details to us, and >maybe we too will be obliged finally to give the living corpse >of the psycho-social hypothesis a decent burial. So make with the cases, already. And quit making the draft with the hands okay, ya wanna job as an air conditioner, sorry, too late, we got one. Now just answer the question, in your own words, that the nice tall man with the red hair & the invisible drum kit asked. What more do you have to do? Yrs &c Pugwash D. Metaphysick Tested Against Animals
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 19 Re: E.T.H. - Extremely Tenuous Hypothesis From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 17:42:22 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 19:50:44 -0400 Subject: Re: E.T.H. - Extremely Tenuous Hypothesis >From: "Mark Pilkington" <markp@syzygy.net> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: E.T.H. - Extremely Tenuous Hypothesis >Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:42:55 +0100 <Giant snip> >I think part of the reason why Clark has abdicated on his attempt >to counter the PH is that, despite such writers as Martin >Kottmeyer and one or two other contributors to Fortean rather >than ufological literature, it has never really been seriously >promoted in the USA, and as is becoming clearer and clearer, >American ufology like much of American society is tremendously >insular. This is understandable in a such a huge and diverse >country, but it does reduce the range of influences and ideas >which impinge on US ufology. To read an average American UFO >magazine it would be hard to discern that anywhere else in the >world exists which does not have a link with the US: Rendlesham >only features in American magazines because it was a US base; the >Berwyn Mountain case has no such transatlantic connection so it >is largely ignored. The massive dominance of government cover-up >and conspiracy theories in American ufology can be sustained only >by ignoring the fact that there are other governments around the >world, not all of whom are at the US's bidding. Have the Roswell >proponents ever considered what might happen if a similar event >occured in Libya, Iran or China? <Another giant snip> >Mark Pilkington >Magonia Online >http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk Dear Mark: Well, yes and no. Take the last two sentences quoted above, for example. Now, ask if anyone in England has read the latest issue of FSR, UFO Magazine, or a recent book by Timothy Good, good non-Americans all, which proves you don't have to be an insular one to be paranoid and conspiracy-minded. Also, the last time I looked, John Keel was an American, and Jacques Vallee lives and publishes here. Are you saying neither influenced American ufology or that their anti-ETH views weren't well known? And while I can't speak for every American UFO magazine, I know that during the 12 years I edited the MUFON UFO Journal I published as much good foreign material that came my way as I could. Off the top of my head, that would include multiple pieces by each of the following: Jenny Randles, Hilary Evans, Andy Roberts, Paul Devereux, Bill Chalker, Albert Budden, Jim Schnabel, Ralph Noyes, Keith Basterfield, Cynthia Hind, and numerous, numerous, others, including Martin Kottmeyer on a number of occasions. If I didn't publish anything by the usual Magonia gang, the reason is quite simple: no one from there submitted anything, although the last time I looked mail still passed freely between the two countries. I've managed to get myself published in Magonia and Fortean Times a number of times (as well as in Holland, Germany and Japan), primarily by that tried and tested method of simply submitting a manuscript. True, I'm not a died-in-the-wool nuts and bolts man, but, that's the point, isn't? There's perhaps more variety here than you credit. Some of us even speak foreign languages and travel abroad, if only to make sure that our investments aren't being mishandled. Again, the last time I looked, Peter Brookesmith was being sold in our bookstores, and some of us even had computers with which to surf the World Wide Web, never mind that we invented the damn thing in the first place. While I'm at it, I suspect that Rendlesham Forest *first* came to our attention because it seemed to be a good case that happened in England at the time, and someone (Randles, if memory serves) sent us an article about it. Do you think that if the soldiers involved had all been English, instead of American, that we wouldn't have been just as interested? Did the New Zealand lights and the Valentich case, both of which got plenty of play here, involve Americans directly? Ditto, certain Soviet Union and South American cases? I daresay that, for the most obvious of reasons, most of us investigate those cases closest to home (and our native language) when they're actually investigated at all. That said, I also have to add that when enlightened Europeans like Santilli and Hessemann descended on Roswell, our overall understanding of same didn't exactly snap into pristine clarity, did it? But we all have our problem children, don't we? Now, it is true that we are a country of 800-pound gorillas who tend to sit anywhere we wish without first asking permission. But that doesn't mean that we all believe lockstep in Roswell, the Brooklyn Bridge abduction, and alien implants. If one wanted to psychoanalyze American ufology, however, I suspect that one would find a preference for technological explanations (ETH) and conspiracy theories (government cover up) somewhere in our background of engineering tendencies and inherent mistrust of authority, the latter originally occasioned, incidentally, by the boorish behavior of certain English kings, as opposed, say, to an inherent tendency of Americans (a nation of immigrants) towards insularity. And what about those who always accuse us of non-insularity, of meddling in the world's foreign affairs everywhere? One can't have it both ways. We might as well say that the PH basically arose in France, a nation of inward-turned philosophes, and that England's adoption and promotion of same (among some) represents little more than philosophy envy. And lest I forget: wasn't Charles Fort -- sometimes referred to as the father of ufology -- in fact an, uh, well, er, American? In the meantime, we do thank your country for the crop circles, something insular Americans would otherwise have never taken an interest in had it not been for the fact that most of them occurred on overseas U.S. government property, leased or otherwise. Dennis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 19 Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? From: "Stanton T. Friedman" <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 20:46:06 -0300 Fwd Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 22:01:26 -0400 Subject: Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? > From: KRandle993 <KRandle993@aol.com> [Kevin Randle] > Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:35:12 EDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: New 'MJ-12' Documents? > >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 03:03:55 +0200 > >Subject: New MJ-12 Documents > >Two new alleged MJ-12 documents have surfaced. Page 1 of the > >first one bears the header > <snip> > >ULTRA TOP SECRET > >MJ-12 > >EYES ONLY Page 02 of 03 > Hi all - > I have waited for someone to point out what might be the fatal > flaw on this document (overlooking for the moment that it comes > out in a work of fiction - Stan, where are you? I thought you'd > be up front telling everyone this is fiction). Kevin, I had just written a response saying I have no reason to believe these documents are genuine and find many things wrong with them. I have a manuscript to read and will say more when I get back from Argentina in a week or so. Surely looks fictional. Leaving tomorrow. STF
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 19 Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? From: Bruce Lanier Wright <magnus@io.com> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 19:37:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 22:04:41 -0400 Subject: Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? >Date: Tue, 19 May 98 14:49:47 PDT >The absurdity of the claim of fiction as truth concealed reminds >me of a far-rightwing novel I read in high school, The Pentagon >Case, by the pseudonymous Victor J. Fox. As I recall it, Fox >claimed to have been a military officer who discovered that the >Pentagon was so riddled with Communist sympathizers that it was >in effect an agent of Soviet foreign policy. Unable to expose >the truth in the way the truth is ordinarily exposed (as, for >example, nonfiction), he decided to blow the whistle through the >medium of a novel. Even as a callow youth I recall laughing out >loud at the sheer brazenness of the scam. Whereas, when I read the communiqu=E9 concerning the Mars Jupiter - Twelve, I was immediately lost in nostalgia, musing on the ineffable prose of Richard Shaver, and the mysteries of the Cavern World. Bruce W. I remember Lemuria!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 20 Re: 'MJ-12' Documents? From: Scott Hale <shale@columbus.rr.com> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 23:54:04 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 06:39:49 -0400 Subject: Re: 'MJ-12' Documents? > From: eotl@west.net [Jeff Rense] > Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 17:11:07 -0700 (PDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'MJ-12' Documents? > Posted for Edgar Fouche': > Kevin Randle is absolutely correct. > As I said on the radio, the documents were retyped and sanitized > of certain names, and dates, which included the "designation" > Classified-Top Secret, etc. > I certainly did put the Ultra Top Secret on the document assuming > that would be the classification. I do not profess to be an > historian or document expert. But I felt it needed some type of > classification, otherwise, who would believe it? Because of this > document's inclusion in a work of fiction, I felt this was a > necessary step. Furthermore, during the radio interview, I made > it clear that I did not wish to be sent Classified Government > documents in the first place...another reason it was sanitized. > Edgar Fouche' Wonderful.. now anything that anybody finds wrong with your story will be "sanatized". There is no way you can back up any of this, because you can just claim "Oh, that's been changed.". Come on.. how about some real research for a change? This is truly sad. Regards, Scott K. Hale
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 20 Re: New Discovery in Egypt? From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia] Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 23:37:41 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 06:30:09 -0400 Subject: Re: New Discovery in Egypt? >Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 16:39:48 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: New Discovery in Egypt? >Hi Tampa Joe, hi All, >Joe, correct me if I'm wrong. From What I understand from all >that I've read isn't Zahi Hawass one of _the_ major impediments >to the (public) exploration of the Giza site. ex: The chamber under >the paws of the Sphinx and the new shaft that was found in the >Great Pyramid. John, You are correct sir! Of course, a lot of the anti-Hawass stuff has been from the internet so who knows what is true or not. Hancock, Bauval and West have all had run-ins with Hawass and have not spoken highly of him in the past. But it seems that Hancock and West have let bygones be bygones and decided to become buddies with Hawass. I guess they want to get access to the Giza plateau again and realize they may have to kiss a little Zahi butt to do it. >If Zahi is all excited he must have a big personal stake in the >discovery. Otherwise, all he's been so far is a fly in the >ointment. I'm sure you're right. I don't care what is driving Hawass. As long as the truth comes out. I would like to think that Hawass has finally opened his mind to other theories besides those of mainstream egyptologists but I don't know what he is thinking. Let's hope the discoveries of the future are more out in the open. It seems that Hawass has changed his tune but only time will tell. Joe Murgia
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 20 [lunascan] Science News on LTP From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 22:46:21 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 06:37:19 -0400 Subject: [lunascan] Science News on LTP Folks, As I was digging back through some old issues of Science News, I found the following article which seemed worth posting here. Pardon me if its old info to some of you. I personaly have no opinion pro or con on the proposed explanation below; however, as with most phenomena, I suspect the ultimate answer will likely be a quirky mixture of many culprits, some mundane and some perhaps not. -Brian Cuthbertson ============================================================== from: Science News, Vol. 150, Nov. 16, 1996, p.314. Astronomy Ron Cowan reports from Tucson at the annual meeting of the American Astronomical Society's Division of Planetary Sciences Explaining a lunar mystery As far back as the Middle Ages, sky watchers have reported seeing bright flashes, red and blue glows, and patches of mist or fog emanating from certain sites on the moon. Researchers have proposed several theories to explain these mysterious sightings, including volcanic activity, bom- bardment of the moon by high-energy cosmic rays, release of gases from beneath the lunar surface, and moonquakes. Most lunar geologists and professional astronomers, however, remain doubtful about these unconfirmed observations, known as lunar transient phenomena. Although Bonnie Buratti of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laborato- ry (JPL) in Pasadena, Calif., considers herself a skeptic, she and colleagues Kenneth Herkenhoff of JPL and Timothy Mcconnochie of Williams College in Williamstown, Mass., decided to explore the origin of the controversial phenomena. Using close-up images taken by Clementine, the spacecraft that orbited the moon for 71 days in 1994, the team sought to determine whether the sites most often associated with the glows, flashes, and mist have any common features, such as composition or age. In agreement with a suggestion in 1972 by astronomer Winifred Cameron of Flagstaff, Ariz., the team found that most reliable sightings - those reported since 1900, including some from a ground-based observation organized to coincide with the Clemintine mission - trace to the edges of dark, vast lava flows known as maria. At the edges of maria, the lunar phenomena were often associated with craters, such as Alphonsus and Picard, whose bluish spectra indicate that they contain unusually fresh deposits of material. Buratti and her colleagues suggest that these craters have suffered recent landslides, in which material from the walls or rims has slumped toward the center of the cavities. Dust kicked into the lunar atmosphere or volatile gases escaping from the moon's surface in the aftermath of a landslide might account for many of the mystery sightings, they propose. END --------------------------------------------------------------------------- THE LUNASCAN PROJECT (TLP): An Earth-Based Telescopic Imaging (EBTI) program using live and recorded CCD technology to document and record Lunar Transient Phenomena (TLPs). The Lunascan Project HomePage http://www.evansville.net/~slk/lshomepage.html The Project's Mission Statement : http://www.evansville.net/~slk/miss.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 20 Re: Time to retire "Ufologist, Ufology" From: SGB List 2 <SGBList2@aol.com> [Stephen G. Bassett] Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 00:27:28 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 06:49:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Time to retire "Ufologist, Ufology" In response to the all the posts on this thread which I have read with great interest, the following: The men and women who have pursued this issue since 1947 have been met with lies, stonewalling, misinformation, disinformation, threats, corruption, subversion, cowardice, government hoaxes, massive security barriers, ridicule, derision, laughter, smugness, dismissal, and more. After a half-century of that you develop a self-esteem problem. Like the child of the grossly dysfunctional family with the tyrant father, who is not allowed to "feel what they feel" and where logic is turned on its head, many individuals within the field of study and the political process of disclosure are afraid to even "know what they know." They suffer from an unhealthy reflex to apologize to anyone who challenges them on any point. Those days are coming to an end. This list [SGB's List? --ebk] is being monitored my the government because it is a major forum on the day-to-day interpretation of events and tactics. More power to the government - perfectly legal and strategically appropriate. But it does not stop there. Those familiar with stock car racing understand the concept of a "governor." These are devices placed in engines to control energy output, limit power. This list has governors on it. Their role is to keep a damper on things, keep positive strains of thinking, effective tactics from getting out of control. To paraphrase an old saying: if you want to know who the king's bodyguards are, kiss the king. Or in another manner, if you want to know which trees the snipers are in, put your helmet on a stick and hold it up in the air. SB
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 20 Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' From: SGB List 2 <SGBList2@aol.com> [Stephen G. Bassett] Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 23:55:51 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 06:43:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' > Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:27:48 -0400 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' > >Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 07:04:31 -0400 > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' <snip> > This short article was located on The Hill's "Open Secrets" page, > which takes a humorous view of the Hill. In short, the newspaper > treated this as a silly story designed to put a smile on the > faces of staffers, rather than inform anyone of serious news. > Knowing how the media uses this type of story as "filler", I have > no idea what the original Press Release said, but the manner in > which this has been handled (by all involved) has helped to paint > UFOlogy as a silly science that is pursued by kooks and loonies. > We have enough trouble gaining respectibility in the eyes of the > public at large (except for our entertainment value) and I wish > there was some way we could keep from adding fuel to these > negative fires. > Steve Kaeser ______________________________________ To make strategic decisions based upon whether any segment of our mainstream institutions is going to treat it as silly is to put control of the disclosure process in their hands. I can assure you that there is no level of "professionalism," no level of "credentials," no number of academic degrees, no amount of "stature," and no measure of scientific basis, that would prevent the mainstream press or any entrenched institution dedicate to the status quo from treating that which has been proffered as "silly." You may not perceive this, but the fact that "The Hill" ran a piece on this at all is a significant event, one not without groundwork. I appreciate your bringing this to my attention as "The Hill" did not. Frankly, I could not be more pleased. SB
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 20 JPL Cybercast: A.C. Clarke About Life On Europa From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 04:13:05 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 06:45:15 -0400 Subject: JPL Cybercast: A.C. Clarke About Life On Europa Tuesday May 5 UFO Updates brought this email of mine, URL http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/may/m05-012.shtml *** >From CSETI's site. URL: http://www.cseti.org/position/addition/clarke.htm Thanks to "Sightings On Radio" http://www.sightings.com for the link. Stig ******* Arthur C. Clarke, inventor of the geo-stationary satellite and author of "2001, A Space Odyssey", commenting on NASA spacecraft Galileo's photos of Jupiter's moon Europa. "Running right across one of the pictures is an absolutely straight narrow line, and if you saw this you'd say, well, that's obviously a highway or a railroad track, and no-one can explain it - it's about 200 km long and its dead straight except for a slight wriggle where there's sort of a change of terrain, and we're all very, very puzzled about this and in fact I'm beginning to think the unthinkable." from The Learning Channel, "The Sci-Fi files, Spaceships and Aliens". April 1998 Note: Europa is about the same size as the Earth's moon. *** Interesting, isn't it, so I thought you might appreciate this update from Hazardous Media's site, URL: http://hazardous.com/europa/press.html ******* NEWS RELEASE A DAY ON EUROPA: A JPL PUBLIC LECTURE WITH ARTHUR C. CLARKE http://hazardous.com/europa Hazardous Media and its technology partner Livecam.com will cybercast science fiction writer Arthur C. Clarke live from his home in Sri Lanka to a public lecture on exploration of the Jupiter moon Europa sponsored by the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL). The lecture, titled "A Day on Europa," will be held at Cal Tech's Beckman auditorium in Pasadena on Thursday, May 21, from 6pm to 9pm. Arthur C. Clarke will join a panel of prominent scientists to discuss the potential of exploration of Europa. The icy moon has remarkable similarities to Earth, and Clarke has suggested in his novels "2010: Odyssey Two" and "3001: The Final Odyssey" that life could be supported there. JPL launched the probe Galileo to Jupiter in 1989, and it has been orbiting the planet since late 1995, returning to Earth revealing pictures of Europa. Clarke has often referred to Europa as "the lifeboat of the human race," suggesting that if the Earth became inhospitable, mankind could potentially relocate to Europa. The moon could potentially be an ideal space station for further exploration of the galaxy, Clarke says. Clarke will broadcast his message to the lecture and take questions from the audience via an internet "livecam" near his home in Colombo, Sri Lanka. The livecam is provided by Sri Lanka Telecom. The livecam broadcasts a constant video stream, technically known as a "jpeg push," out to the internet. The livecam is maintained by Los Angeles based Hazardous Media (http://hazardous.com), who has successfully produced a series of cybercasts with Clarke, including birthday wishes to the HAL 9000 computer in March 1997, and the 30th anniversary of "2001: A Space Odyssey" in April 1998. Rebroadcasts of these past Clarke cybercasts are available at http://hazardous.com/2001. The jpeg push technology was developed by internet guru John Sokol of Livecam.com (http://www.livecam.com). The livecam is the only one in existence on the island of Sri Lanka, south of India, and Clarke enjoys using it to communicate with the rest of the world. Says Clarke in a upcoming documentary produced by Hazardous Media: "The internet is a communication network which is making the global family I've been talking about for decades. At the moment, it's true that only a few people in developed countries can afford this sort of thing. But more and more, people in countries like Sri Lanka are getting it. And every village will have a communications device of some kind in the next few decades. So the whole world will be wired up." This is the third time that Hazardous Media and Livecam.com have teamed to cybercast Arthur C. Clarke to the internet. Says documentary filmmaker A.J. Catoline, co-founder of Hazardous Media: "Cybercasting Arthur C. Clarke from Sri Lanka to Los Angeles is like traveling from Earth to Europa as far as the internet is concerned. Cybercasting is fast emerging as a new medium like radio and television once were state-of-the art technologies." Catoline says the livecam currently produces an image of about 6 frames per second, however as internet speeds increase worldwide, we will soon see full-motion video. Adds cybercast technician John Sokol: "Will the telephone, television and internet become one? Absolutely, I think they are converging." Hazardous Media's website earns its name by embracing the internet as a growing digital revolution, where new mediums are emerging in the uncharted and hazardous frontier of cyberspace. The company's slogan is "daring internet adventures," and Hazardous Media and Livecam.com have taken digital cameras into the world's more "analog" locations, including Sri Lanka, Korea, the Nepali Himalayas, and Eastern Europe. Both companies are based in Los Angeles, however their home is wherever the internet takes them. Hazardous Media is producing a documentary film called "1010: An Internet Odyssey with Arthur C. Clarke" about the history and the future of the digital revolution and the internet. Scenes from the cybercast will appear in the film. The lecture will be broadcast to the internet via the websites of Hazardous Media and JPL. Real Audio/Video and CUSeeMe technology will be used. Please stay tuned to the hazardous.com URL listed above. JPL's website may be accessed at: www.jpl.nasa.gov/galileo/europaday. The NASA satellite network will also broadcast the entire conference live to viewers in North America. The conference may be received on GE satellite # 1, Ku band, transponder 24, vertical polarity, downlink frequency 12.180, 103 degrees west longitude. The panel of scientists joining in the lecture with Clarke will be Dr. Ron Greeley of Arizona State University, Tempe, AZ, a Galileo project imaging team member; Dr. John Delaney, a submarine volcano researcher with the University of Washington, Seattle; and Joan Horvath of JPL, the Europa/Lake Vostok Initiative manager. Lake Vostok, a frozen lake underneath the ice in Antarctica, may have features similar to Europa. Dr. Richard Terrile of JPL will moderate the panel and JPL Director Dr. Edward Stone will give the welcome address. The event is free, but tickets must be obtained from the Caltech Ticket Office, with information available by calling (626) 395-4652 or at the following Internet website: http://www.caltech.edu/~tickets/to.htm. ##### Media Contact: Julie Ferriot Pacific Visions 310/274-8787 x.129 email: jf@pvcla.com Production Contact: A.J. Catoline Cybercast Producer email: ajc@hazardous.com Hazardous Media (213) 850-3245
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 20 SETI pulses... Not From: "Mark Pilkington" <markp@syzygy.net> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:59:32 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 07:35:01 -0400 Subject: SETI pulses... Not ---------------------- From Terrence Chua in Singapore. Here's the reply from the University of Indiana... guess I was right after all. Maybe someone can pass this around to the rest of the UFO community. --------------------- Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 12:19:23 -0500 (EST) From: Steve Spicklemire <steve@estel.uindy.edu> To: khaos@mbox2.singnet.com.sg Subject: Re: SETI pulses. No.. there have been no SETI signals received! Here is a clarification. -steve (encoding snipped) Here is a post I made to the seti list to kill the e-mail flow. Malcolm (Encoding snipped) From: mallettem@tcon.net To: seti@sni.net Subject: SETI pulses NOT A recent post of mine to the seti mail-list caused some confusion on the part of the UFO crowd. The subject was "pulses". The remailer for the list added the word "SETI" to the word "pulses" so the subject was then remailed as "SETI pulses". The post referred to natural noise pulses, probably from local interference but certainly not a transmission from ETI, as they appear a few times a day no matter where we point the dish. Although I said that the pulses were probably interference twice in the post, some got excited. I will take into account that the remailer may add the word SETI to the subject line in future posts. By the way, no amateur radio astronomer with suitable equipment has taken up our offer for a joint project. Malcolm Mallette Radio Astronomy at the University of Indianapolis ---
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 20 Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? From: "Stanton T. Friedman" <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 07:31:42 -0300 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 07:45:53 -0400 Subject: Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? > From: ufotruth@ix.netcom.com [William Hand] > Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 15:02:08 -0500 (CDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: A DIRECT MESSAGE TO Serge Salvaille ABOUT THE NEW MJ12 > DOCUMENTS!!!!!!! > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: New 'MJ-12' Documents? > >Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:08:15 +0600 <snip> > They MIGHT be real and they MIGHT be hoaxed just like all the > other MJ-12 documents but they are not part of the science > fiction work "Alien Rapture". But they are JUST as > credible as all of the other MJ12 documents that people > like Stanton Friendman have been researching! > SO we have NEW MJ12 documents. What are everyones opinion about > them? To compare these newtyped missives with the old MJ-12 documents is absurd. There has been no investigation of the new ones and no l copies of actual documents have been made available. The book is listed as fiction. Compare that with my 108page "Final Report on Operaton Majestic 12", my book TOP SECRET/MAJIC, my paper Operation Majestic 12? YES and other items. Let us do our research by invstigation rather than prclamation (pro or con) please. STF
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 20 Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 04:17:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 07:30:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' >Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:31:00 -0700 (PDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, updates@globalserve.net >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' >>Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 07:04:31 -0400 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' Bob wrote: >>I don't really mind UFO and/or Ufologist all that much, and it is >>commonly understood. >>What I object to is the idiotic statements that this or that has >>been proved about UFOs. NOTHING has been proved. All we have is >>masses of subjective reports, many of them mutually >>contradictive. So far not one shred of proven physical >>evidence. Jim asks, >Bob, >You really need to say what would or should constitute proof in >your eyes. ================= Hi Bob, Jim, All, I was a bit surprized at the severity of Bobs' comment. My perception is that we are up to our proverbial keesters in evidence and "proof." But then there ya go, "one mans trash is another mans treasure." <G> Jim asks a very 'nitty gritty' type of question here. What constitutes "proof" for a person. It's one we should all ask of ourselves (do a little personal inventory) and consider carefully. My 2 cents on the run and worth every penny that you paid for it! <G> Peace, John Velez ;-) ___________________________________________________________________________ AIC INTERACTIVE CONFERENCE http://www.IF-AIC.com jvif@spacelab.net ___________________________________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 20 Re: Strieber on CSPAN? From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 00:35:36 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 07:22:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? >Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 13:17:16 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Strieber on CSPAN? >Strieber has gone up in my opinion dramatically after Secret >School and Confirmation. He seems to have gotten a grip on >himself, and on what has been happening around/to him. I can't believe it. I agree with John Velez and Bob Shell on the same night. The end must be near! Where's Allen Funt? Actually, it's nice to write an email with no anger in my fingers. Seriously, Strieber is becoming the kind of investigator that somebody in the public eye needs to be. I was so surprised by Confirmation. It was so much different than his other books which I enjoyed too but for different reasons. >He dropped a couple of little things into Secret School which are >real sleepers, and tipoffs about the reality of his experiences. I loved Secret School. I'll have to look it over again. What exactly are you referring to? What sleepers and tipoffs? Do you think they hint at the reality of his experiences or absence of reality in his experiences? >I've never met the man except on the net, but would very much >like to now. >Bob I met him at the Gulf Breeze Project Awareness UFO Conference last year. I had seen him speak before but never had the chance to sit and talk with him. What happened is during his lecture, he invited anybody who was interested, to come down to the beach that night, and meditate with him. We would try to "make" the visitors appear. It sounded like fun so my wife and I went. After a little bit of meditation, (It was hard to relax because Strange Universe was turning on their camera lights and trying to shoot video of everybody sitting there.) we then just sat and chatted with Whitley. There were about 10 of us. >From about 11:30pm until 1:00am, he talked with us. He answered everybodies' questions and told us some stories from his childhood and about his experiences. Even then he was saying he didn't kow how to classify his experiences. Overall though, he was funny, gracious, polite, and just another one of the "guys". As Strieber put it so nicely in his book, he is a famous person, without all of the perks of fame. Just a regular guy. (IMHO) This brings me to a disturbing email I received yesterday after I posted the Strieber CSPAN story. BTW, I called CSPAN and they are planning to air Strieber's lecture at the Pentagon book store sometime in June. They told me to call back in the 1st week of June and they would have an exact date. It will air on the weekend. That is when they feature different books and authors in one of their series. Here is the email. This person emailed me privately and I didn't respond to it because I wanted to post it and see what everybody else thinks. I think it is B.S. Also, the strange thing is that I like to listen and read about James Van Praagh. You know, the medium who says he can communicate with the dead. I enjoy his message and his writing. Anyway, this email guy doesn't know me at all and I have never posted anything about Van Praagh to this list. Tell me, did he get lucky or did he have some way of finding out that I like Van Praagh? Strieber and Van Praagh are not that similar. How would this guy connect the two unless he knew something about me? I know I'm being paranoid but you read the email and tell me what you think. I guess he just got lucky. Does anybody know this guy Dan Bloom? Has he posted on the list before? EBK, you may be able to help me out here. [I've found one mention of Bloom here in Dave Walsh's NUA Blather for April 3rd 1998 - Vol 1. No. 47. in the credits for a piece titled 'MORE ANIMAL ANTICS' --ebk] Joe Murgia Tampa, Florida ***Email from Dan Bloom**** >You might not know this, but when Whitley published his >bsetseller COMMUNION, from which his reputation sprang, >the entire book was a hoax. I have it from those in the publishing >field that published that very book ---- a top high ranking editor >---- that COMMUNION was not a true story, but a "journey from >one place to another" in a fictional realm. But the book was >published as "a true story" in a very unethical way. That's why the >whole WS stuff, and his theories, are so kaput. The man >is a faker. a good man, a kind man, but he is putting one over on >you and many otherss. Not me. i have been told the truth about him >by those who knew him "when." you should also wake up to the reality >of who he really is. Dont be conned by people like him and james >Van Praagh who you prob also believe in. Check out the sources. >WS is a fraud. >-- DAN BLOOM in Taiwan
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 20 Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? From: eotl@west.net [Jeff Rense] Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 03:34:02 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 07:38:42 -0400 Subject: Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? Please be advised that Mr. Fouche' has asked me to post a lengthy elaboration regarding his acquisition of the 1987 MJ-12 Document and the purported 'alien autopsy' document, both of which are included in his forthcoming book. I have done so on my homepage via a new banner link. The abject silence on this list over the TR-3B revelation, which could explain scores of triangle sightings over the past 8 or more years, has certainly been interesting. If true, the TR-3B represents the most remarkable technological disclosure that we can recall and Mr. Fouche's description of the craft's apparent motility, size, and performance during his interview on Monday, 5-18-98, were quite impressive. That program, as well as his appearance on Friday 5-15-98, should be available in the Archives section by now. Best regards, Jeff Rense
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 20 Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' From: Joachim Koch <JKoch1@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 01:26:06 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 07:28:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' Date: May 20, 1998 19:43:00 GMT From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de <Joachim Koch> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' >From: "David Baker" <davbak@globalnet.co.uk> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' >Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 20:45:18 +0100 >I can't really understand all the wailing and gnashing of teeth >concerning the term 'ufologist'....as many have said, it's a term >that has settled into the conciousness of the masses for far too >ong to change now, and surely it's as good a term as any. Yes David, I agree, and many here in Germany, too. The term ufologist remains valid. It is historcally grown, everyone is familiar with, everyone knows about. It is in every dictionary and in every encyclopedia. And, thanks to all the ufologists, people know that the phenomenon has various aspects. Most ufologists are beyond the ridicule factor, the public has accepted them. So there is no need for another alibi-description. Regards. Joachim Koch International Roswell Initiative, Germany
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 20 Re: FW: SETI pulses... From: "Mark Pilkington" <markp@syzygy.net> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 15:12:05 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:58:46 -0400 Subject: Re: FW: SETI pulses... -----Original Message----- From: owner-forteana@lists.primenet.com [mailto:owner-forteana@lists.primenet.com] On Behalf Of Terence Chua Sent: 20 May 1998 12:59 To: Forteana Mailing List Subject: Re: SETI pulses - the last word before the conspiracists come in I received this in my mail today from Mallette, the originator of the original pulse email. For completeness' sake, here it is. -------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 21:44:08 -0500 From: Malcolm Mallette <mallettem@tcon.net> To: Terence Chua <khaos@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> Subject: Re: SETI pulses. Terence Chua wrote: Dear Mr Mallette, The email below arrived at the Fortean mailing list (forteana@lists.primenet.com). In the interests of verification, could you confirm that the information is accurate? Given the proliferation of hoaxing on the Net, you can understand my(our) trepidations. Thanks in advance. [included email snipped for brevity's sake - Terence] There were no "SETI pulses" only interference. I thought my message to the various radio astronomy lists was clear. It has nothing to do with seti. It was sent to the seti list only because seti is a branch of radio astronomy. The seti list remailer added the word "SETI" to my word "pulses" and the "subject" on the remail was "SETI pulses" while my original subject was "pulses". As have many amateur, or professional, radio astronomers, we have noticed one time "pulses" of less than a minute from time to time. We are rather certain that they are interference because they appear wherever we point the radiotelescope. However, we are now pointing at the declination ( elevation ) of Cygnus A, a source that is powerful and easy to observe as it transits the meridian once a day. We thought that we might find another radiotelescope, probably an amateur, who would point his dish on the same heading and we could see if he sees the short pulses when we do. We would like to determine with certainty that the pulses are of local origin. The pulses are not related to Cygnus A, we are just pointing at the elevation Cygnus A passes over on. If the one time short pulses are not of local origin, and they probably are local interference, the pulses are undoubtedly of natural origin, since they appear once or twice a day wherever we point the dish. They are not related to SETI. By the way, our data is placed on the www at our website where the data can be viewed by all, copied and even displayed as a graph with our online graphing software! There are even gif files of sample observations for those who are not technically minded. The URL is: HTTP://radio.spvi.com/radio/ Graph our observation files for the last few days starting at 4:30 or 5 am to see Cygnus A, followed by the plane of the galaxy and Cygnus X and Cygnus B. The baseline drops off rapidly toward the end of the observation, as the sun rises and heats up the LNB. The LNB gain goes down as it heats up. As Cygnus A is a radio galaxy that is 720,000,000 light years from earth, this observation is very interesting. Malcolm Mallette, Radio Astronomy at the University of Indianapolis ---------- Terence Chua <khaos@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> WWW: <http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/~tchua> KhaOS@TinyTIM:<telnet://yay.tim.org:5440> "Love ain't a dying art as far as I can see..."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 20 PROJECT-1947 - 'Air Western' Incident From: Mike Rogalski <Mike.Rogalski@DFRC.NASA.GOV> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 14:02:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:24:52 -0400 Subject: PROJECT-1947 - 'Air Western' Incident Wow, Jan! I struck a nerve somewhere on the inquiry about the Air Western radar incident under command of Joshua Control on April 8th, 1998. Brent Shively, the Quality Control Manager for Joshua told me that there was no filed report for the Air Western incident, nothing in the log, but that there was an F-18 in pursuit of an object which accelerated, and the pilot was unable to overtake it. Shively said the supervisor on duty that night said it was a UFO, but no one was willing to enter anything to that effect into the log. So officially, there is no record of any of the events. There is no mention either of the UFOs chasing the airliner. I am stunned that they would admit to even calling it a UFO. E-mail me if you want Shively's phone number.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 20 Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:23:30 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 16:33:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' >Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:31:00 -0700 (PDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, updates@globalserve.net >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' >>Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 07:04:31 -0400 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' >>I don't really mind UFO and/or Ufologist all that much, and it is >>commonly understood. >>What I object to is the idiotic statements that this or that has >>been proved about UFOs. NOTHING has been proved. All we have is >>masses of subjective reports, many of them mutually >>contradictive. So far not one shred of proven physical >>evidence. >Bob, >You really need to say what would or should constitute proof in >your eyes. >If a UFO with aliens landed and allowed themselves to be taken >prisoner, and if this all got into the news before it had a >chance to be hushed up or covered up by disinformation, and if >there were plenty of witnesses to it and videos of it, would you >consider this to be 100% evidence of the existence of a UFO, i.e. >proof?, or 99.999% evidence or what? Let's assume that the >humanoid-appearing aliens or their killed bodies were however >wisked away by governmental authorities, as that would hardly be >handled otherwise. >As you might surmise, dyed-in-the-wool ufologists would insist >that material samples of the UFO be tested in labs before any >decision be made, even if the witnesses and videos reported that >it had hovered without noise before landing. And the labs, if >they couldn't determine what the material/alloy was that they had >on hand, would just say they hadn't come to any determination >yet, after months or years. If isotopic analysis indicated >non-earthly isotope ratios, this would be treated by some the >same way the NM sample that Russell Vernon-Clark analyzed. And of >course the idea would be promoted that this was just new military >technology being tested over an urban area to see how the >citizens would react. So the skeptic who listened to what the >most outspoken ufologists had to say might be 97% convinced it >was a genuine ET UFO, but not 100%. So it wouldn't be proof for >them. Just what then would constitute proof for you? I do not question that UFOs exist. I've seen one under ideal viewing circumstances, so that question was answered long ago for me. However, I do not know what it was that I saw, and I have never assumed that it was an alien spacecraft. I simply do not know what it was. I know many things that it wasn't, such as airplane, balloon, meteor, etc. I want to know what these things are. For me to believe they are alien spacecraft, there would need to be some very solid evidence of non-earthly technology and materials. And I do not mean materials unknown to us, I mean materials that could not be known to us. Granting, for the moment, that these appear to be examples of technology unknown to us, that still does not make them automatically ET. As I have said before, time travel is one important hypothesis, and must not be thrown out without study. If open communication were to be set up with the "aliens", I would very much like to hear their side of the story about who and what they are. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 20 Re: Phenomenon # 8 - Part 2 From: J H Peterson <jpeterson@means.net>00[ Candy Peterson] Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:26:09 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 16:31:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Phenomenon # 8 - Part 2 >Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 17:21:27 -0700 >To: Updates@globalserve.net >From: Bob Tidwell <bob.t@mindspring.com> >Subject: : UFO UpDate: Re: Phenomenon # 8 - Part 2 >>Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 01:45:59 -0700 >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Alien origins >>This is my opinion only of course, but I now believe that one of >>the LAST things an alien will tell you or anyone else is where >>they come from .. be it the Future, someplace in space, another >>dimension or whatever. I lean toward the nuts-and-bolts and ET >>interpretation, but I'm open to the other options. >Also being a nuts-and -bolts type of investigator, I tend to >agree with Larry on this. But, they've also told abductees that >they are from other worlds, so should we not consider them as ETs >either, or should we make a list of the star systems that they >sometimes refer to as home, in hopes of discovering the correct >one? Another project might be to make a list of everything that >we been told by them, and see what's left. >>I see a clear and consistent pattern of mis, dis, and non- >>information, so complete and compelling that so-called >>"government conspirators", assuming they exist at all, can only >>stand in awe. >In order for the mis/dis/non-information game to best function, >there has to be a grain of truth involved. The trouble is in >determining which grain that is. Exactly. If "they" come here from somewhere else, and even if they communicate via telepathy, their messages may well be imperfectly received by some or all human percipients. That would look like disinformation. Some prominent researcher [Hopkins?] recounted a story wherein the aliens told the abductee that they came from a galaxy near Jupiter. A good laugh was had by all over this because everyone knows better, right? But what if "they" were providing directional clues they thought we could understand? Astronomical software could be used to see which stars would have been _apparently_ "near Jupiter", if the right time frame could be established for the reported contact. Sure, it's a long shot based on a lot of ifs, but I want to point out that maybe many of the messages experiencers report hearing are the noise, and we haven't recognized the signal yet. Or not. >; ) --Candy Peterson, who smiles away year after year of not knowing.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 20 Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:13:39 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 16:35:23 -0400 Subject: Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? >From: KRandle993 <KRandle993@aol.com> [Kevin Randle] >Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:35:12 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: New 'MJ-12' Documents? >>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 03:03:55 +0200 >>Subject: New MJ-12 Documents >>Two new alleged MJ-12 documents have surfaced. Page 1 of the >>first one bears the header <snip> >>ULTRA TOP SECRET >>MJ-12 >>EYES ONLY Page 02 of 03 > Hi all - >I have waited for someone to point out what might be the fatal >flaw on this document (overlooking for the moment that it comes >out in a work of fiction - Stan, where are you? I thought you'd >be up front telling everyone this is fiction). Your comments about the order of words is correct: caveat follows the general TS level. However, we have yet to see a document..... only a sample of text from a book manuscript ..... good way to advertise a book? If the writers want us to treat these documents with some level of seriousness they should scan same and post.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 20 Re: New Discovery in Egypt? From: John <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 16:51:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 19:02:08 -0400 Subject: Re: New Discovery in Egypt? >From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia] >Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 23:37:41 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: New Discovery in Egypt >>Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 16:39:48 -0500 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: New Discovery in Egypt? >>Hi Tampa Joe, hi All, >>Joe, correct me if I'm wrong. From What I understand from all >>that I've read isn't Zahi Hawass one of _the_ major impediments >>to the (public) exploration of the Giza site. ex: The chamber under >>the paws of the Sphinx and the new shaft that was found in the >>Great Pyramid. >John, Hi Joe, hi All, Joe wrote: >You are correct sir! Of course, a lot of the anti-Hawass stuff >has been from the internet so who knows what is true or not. >Hancock, Bauval and West have all had run-ins with Hawass and >have not spoken highly of him in the past. But it seems that >Hancock and West have let bygones be bygones and decided to >become buddies with Hawass. I guess they want to get access to >the Giza plateau again and realize they may have to kiss a little >Zahi butt to do it. If it's just a little innocent butt-kissing in order to gain access then cool. The one knee genuflex places the lips at butt height very neatly. But, sudden turn arounds in otherwise bitter relationships sets off one or two of my alarms. Did Hancock or Bauval say anything publicly about the sudden change in attitude? Not that it matters, I'm just curious is all. As long as they get in there and share their findings with the rest of us, that's all that counts. *Just as a sidelight, I'm curious to see if any of Edgar Cayces' predictions for 1998-99 come to pass! <G> >>If Zahi is all excited he must have a big personal stake in the >>discovery. Otherwise, all he's been so far is a fly in the >>ointment. >I'm sure you're right. I don't care what is driving Hawass. As >long as the truth comes out. I would like to think that Hawass >has finally opened his mind to other theories besides those of >mainstream egyptologists but I don't know what he is thinking. Have you ever seen Hawass either in person or video? I like to look into a persons eyes. Hawass has the "thousand yard stare." I'm born and raised in Manhattan, I -know- that 'hardass' look. Zawi has made his own way in a part of the world where only the strong survive or rise to the top of anything. Zawi must be real smart and (deadly) streetwise. I'm sure there's more in it for him than just a new found "open mindedness." <VBG> >Let's hope the discoveries of the future are more out in the >open. It seems that Hawass has changed his tune but only time >will tell. I hope so too Joe. As for Zawi, I've got a 'new tune' for him... "So you better learn to swim or you'll sink like a stone, for the times they are a changing!" (Dylan) Peace, John The idea of 'Freedom' is bustin' out all over the world. Won't be long before it reaches America! <G> ___________________________________________________________________________ AIC INTERACTIVE CONFERENCE http://www.IF-AIC.com jvif@spacelab.net ___________________________________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 20 Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com> [Robert Gates] Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:45:45 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 19:10:33 -0400 Subject: Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? > From: ufotruth@ix.netcom.com [William Hand] > Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 15:02:08 -0500 (CDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: A DIRECT MESSAGE TO Serge Salvaille ABOUT THE NEW MJ12 DOCUMENTS!!! > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: New 'MJ-12' Documents? > >Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:08:15 +0600 > Serge Salvaille, > There ARE NEW MJ12 documents! The authors of the book > "ALIEN RAPTURE" are Edgar Rothschild Fouche' and Brad Steiger. > Edgar Rothschild Fouche' had been in many black projects and > classified projects for many years. After retiring from working > for various government agencies he made a group of friends who > had also worked in various black projects. They got together > and talked several times about UFO/ET information, advanced > technology, and black projects. > He wanted to write a book about all of this information so he > approached certain people in the military/government and asked > them if he could write a book about it. They said he could but > the book would have to be FICTION, he could not release any > classified information that HE knew about personally, and > the NAMES of the individuals would have to be changed. Let me get this right. He approached people in the gov to write a book. They said the book would have to be fiction and that he could not release any classified information he knew about personally. Apparently by inference it is OK to violate the numerous laws concerning the disclosure of classified information IF he did not know about it personally. That dog ain't going to hunt!!!!!!! > So, to both prevent him from going to prison and to protect > everyone who gave him information he wrote the book in a fiction > format. (Just so you know I gathered all of this information > while listening to Sightings on the Radio the other night > in which he was interviewed). > He recieved the MJ12 documents from one of his friends whose > uncle (if I remember correctly) who was high up in the NSA, > gave to him. So these alleged REAL documents came to him second handed, much like the original documents came to Bill Moore and Jamie Shandara. The difference is he got them from an uncle in NSA, and Bill Moore got them via 35mm film from high level government intelligence officials. Bottom line is that they should be regarded as fiction until proven otherwise. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 20 Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 16:04:13 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 19:19:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' >Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:23:30 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' >>Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:31:00 -0700 (PDT) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, updates@globalserve.net >>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' >>>Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 07:04:31 -0400 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Time to retire 'Ufologist', 'Ufology' >>Bob, >>You really need to say what would or should constitute proof >>in your eyes. >>If a UFO with aliens landed and allowed themselves to be taken >>prisoner, and if this all got into the news before it had a >>chance to be hushed up or covered up by disinformation, and if >>there were plenty of witnesses to it and videos of it, would >>you >>consider this to be 100% evidence of the existence of a UFO, >>i.e. >>proof?, or 99.999% evidence or what? Let's assume that the >>humanoid-appearing aliens or their killed bodies were however >>wisked away by governmental authorities, as that would hardly >>be handled otherwise. >>As you might surmise, dyed-in-the-wool ufologists would insist >>that material samples of the UFO be tested in labs before any >>decision be made, even if the witnesses and videos reported that >>it had hovered without noise before landing. And the labs, if >>they couldn't determine what the material/alloy was that they had >>on hand, would just say they hadn't come to any determination >>yet, after months or years. If isotopic analysis indicated >>non-earthly isotope ratios, this would be treated by some the >>same way the NM sample that Russell Vernon-Clark analyzed. And of >>course the idea would be promoted that this was just new military >>technology being tested over an urban area to see how the >>citizens would react. So the skeptic who listened to what the >>most outspoken ufologists had to say might be 97% convinced it >>was a genuine ET UFO, but not 100%. So it wouldn't be proof for >>them. Just what then would constitute proof for you? >I do not question that UFOs exist. I've seen one under ideal >viewing circumstances, so that question was answered long ago >for me. >However, I do not know what it was that I saw, and I have never >assumed that it was an alien spacecraft. I simply do not know >what it was. I know many things that it wasn't, such as >airplane, balloon, meteor, etc. >I want to know what these things are. You would not be able to understand what they are if you were unable to understand how they operate, how to replicate them and control them, where they're from and what all they can do. These seem to be pretty far beyond us in our present era, and so also the understanding you seek. >For me to believe they are alien spacecraft, there would need >to be some very solid evidence of non-earthly technology and >materials. And I do not mean materials unknown to us, I mean >materials that could not be known to us. How could you ever be sure that such-and-such a material could not (or could never) be known to us if scientists had it on hand to analyze? With hindsight, the negative skeptic could always claim that the sample of UFO material, after lengthy analysis, is known to us because "there it is and we know what elements/isotopes it's made out of." The science spokesman could point to such-and-such studies in physics of materials and say that they had paved the way for further developments, which had been kept under security classification, that had led to the samples on hand. >Granting, for the moment, that these appear to be examples of >technology unknown to us, that still does not make them >automatically ET. As I have said before, time travel is one >important hypothesis, and must not be thrown out without study. But if advanced humans on earth in times past had developed time travel combined with UFO technology, there are the usual problems: (1) Why is there no evidence left of their civilization or artifacts, while there is all kinds of earthly fossil evidence dating back millions of years? Do bones last longer than UFO hulls or UFO factories? (2) If the UFO entities are merely earthlings of the distant future who've traveled back in time, think of how their imparting to us of their downed craft for us to study, thereby speeding up our technological progress (ala Corso or others), would alter our future and have altered their past. Also think of how the loss (through autopsies, etc.) of some of their own people would have affected the future from which they came. (Time paradoxes.) >If open communication were to be set up with the "aliens", I >would very much like to hear their side of the story about who >and what they are. Here there's a further problem. "Open" communication would likely consist of their imparting thoughts to us via their customary mental telepathy; otherwise we wouldn't be able to understand them. How would we know if what they tell us is the truth? We already have essentially the same thing from a large number of contactees and some abductees also, and some of what they've been told seems like misinformation and appears contradictory. This could well be due to the purposeful intent of the UFO entities rather than to the abductees/contactees making it up. But a lot of ufologists simply assume the latter; I guess they want to believe that ETs would tell us only the truth. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 20 Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com> [Robert Gates] Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:03:44 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:13:34 -0400 Subject: Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? > From: eotl@west.net [Jeff Rense] > Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 17:11:07 -0700 (PDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: New 'MJ-12' Documents? > >From: KRandle993 <KRandle993@aol.com> [Kevin Randle] > >Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:35:12 EDT > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: New 'MJ-12' Documents? <snip> > Posted for Edgar Fouche': > Kevin Randle is absolutely correct. > > As I said on the radio, the documents were retyped and sanitized > of certain names, and dates, which included the "designation" > Classified-Top Secret, etc. Edgar, What you are trying to say is you or someone else pulled a Bill Moore/Project Acqarious?, wherein the alleged document in question was retyped. This degrades the value of this document. > I certainly did put the Ultra Top Secret on the document assuming > that would be the classification. I do not profess to be an > historian or document expert. But I felt it needed some type of > classification, otherwise, who would believe it? Because of this > document's inclusion in a work of fiction, I felt this was a > necessary step. Furthermore, during the radio interview, I made > it clear that I did not wish to be sent Classified Government > documents in the first place...another reason it was sanitized. I assume from what you said that you got a retyped copy of this document from your Uncle or whomever mailed it to you, and you modified it further by adding bogus (i.e. you created them for believability reasons) security markings. So, did you in fact get a retyped copy of an alleged highly classified document OR did you retype an allegedly highly classified document? Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 21 FBI FOIA Docs From: SKvs <bradford@globalserve.net> [Sue Kovios] Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 23:03:27 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 08:08:07 -0400 Subject: FBI FOIA Docs http://www.fbi.gov/foipa/ufo.htm#roswell Most of these open in Acrobat. Roswell looks real enough. No pienses que es imposible, confia en tu corazon, nada es lo que parece, el mundo es una ilusion. (translation: Don't think it's impossible, trust your heart, nothing is what it seems the world is an illusion.)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 21 Re: Invent A Private Spacecraft, Win From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 03:34:32 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 08:06:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Invent A Private Spacecraft, Win From: Supernews. URL: http://headlines.supernews.com/News/05_20_1998.rontr-story-bcnewsspace.shtml Stig ******* Invent a private spacecraft, win $10 million Wednesday, May 20, 1998 WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Novelist Tom Clancy joined a grandson of pioneer aviator Charles Lindbergh Wednesday to promote a $10 million prize aimed at spurring the invention of private spacecraft. "One of the things we have to remind ourselves is, we're Americans and we do impossible things," Clancy said at a news conference with Erik Lindbergh, who is a commercial pilot. "And when it's all over, we make money off it." The two were promoting the X Prize, established two years ago to foster competition to build a workable private spacecraft with a view to commerce and space tourism. At least 14 teams have entered the competition, which offers $10 million to the first privately funded spacecraft able to lift three humans to a sub-orbital altitude of 62 miles. Organizers believe they are three to five years away from awarding the prize. Lindbergh, speaking on the 71st anniversary of his grandfather's historic solo flight from New York to Paris, said the most important aspect of the competition was "its ability to capture people's imagination" as Charles Lindbergh did in 1927. Clancy, a millionaire author who has already invested $1 million in a competing team headed by veteran designer Burt Rutan, was a bit more down to earth: "The commercial potential is beyond qualification." The X Prize was established to do for space flight what Charles Lindbergh's trip did for commercial aviation. That early voyage was undertaken in part to win the $25,000 Orteig Prize, one of more than a dozen aviation prizes offered starting in 1904. The flight made Lindbergh an international sensation, and also helped convince ordinary people they could travel by air. X Prize president Peter Diamandis said the first use for any successful private spacecraft would be to launch satellites, with possible expansion into "rocket mail" package delivery and ultimately tourism. Diamandis said more than half the $10 million prize money was already available, and said a venture involving special credit cards with artists' renderings of possible private spacecraft on them would add more. Any purchases made with the special X Prize credit cards would add a small percentage to the prize fund, Diamandis said. Card users and others can also enter a sweepstakes tied to the prize, which would offer prizes ranging from a parabolic "weightless" flight to a flight on a Russian MiG to a stint of astronaut training. The grand prize, to be awarded after the competition is complete, is a sub-orbital flight. Copyright =A9 1998 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters Limited content, including by framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters Limited. Reuters Limited shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon. =A91998 SupernewsTM
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 21 200 Physicists Search For Antistars And Antipeople From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 03:24:14 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 08:05:02 -0400 Subject: 200 Physicists Search For Antistars And Antipeople From: The Salt Lake Tribune via Scripps-McClatchy Western Service and the Nando Times. URL: http://www2.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/health/052098/health4_3722_noframes.html Stig ******* Experiment hopes to uncover universe's dark secrets Copyright =A91998 Nando.net Copyright =A91998 Scripps-McClatchy Western SALT LAKE CITY (May 20, 1998 00:44 a.m. EDT http://www.nando.net) -- If the Big Bang did what physicists say it should have done when the universe formed roughly 15 billion years ago, we wouldn't be here at all. Physicists believe the blast should have created equal amounts of matter and antimatter. Because matter and antimatter annihilate each other on contact, there should have been nothing left. Yet, somehow, matter was left over. So the universe -- at least the part we can see -- is made almost entirely of matter. "If there were not a slight imbalance of matter over antimatter, we would not be around to talk about it," said University of Utah physics professor Michael Salamon. "This is fundamental to existence. We need to understand it if we want to understand our origins." Certain forms of antimatter exist, but only in tiny amounts. Atom smashers on Earth and powerful forces in nearby space routinely produce subatomic particles of antimatter -- counterparts of particles of matter such as quarks, protons and electrons. Atom smashers also have produced antihydrogen, the lightest anti-atom. The theories of modern physics explain why the observable universe is mostly matter and why we haven't seen heavier forms of antimatter known as "cosmic antimatter" particles of antimatter that, if they exist, would reach Earth in the form of high-speed cosmic rays. An international team of 200 physicists, including Salamon, soon will test those theories by beginning a search for cosmic antimatter that might have been hurled toward Earth from far beyond our galaxy. They will conduct the search with a $20 million magnet -- named the Alpha Magnetic Spectrometer (AMS) -- that will be placed in orbit 267 miles above Earth. It will be tested on space shuttle Discovery, set for launch June 2, then ride the international space station for three years starting in 2002. All but the lightest elements -- hydrogen and helium -- were produced within stars. So if there are forms of antimatter heavier than antihydrogen and antihelium, they must have formed within antistars. The AMS experiment will look for two forms of cosmic antimatter, including antihelium that might have been left over from the Big Bang. It also will search for anticarbon. If it finds anticarbon, that would mean the universe also contains antistars and antigalaxies. That would raise the possible existence of distant antiworlds with antipeople in some distant corner of our universe. "We could not meet them because the distances are too large, and if we were to meet, we would annihilate each other," Salamon said. "It would be the last family reunion you'd ever have." Salamon has advised Samuel Ting -- an MIT physicist and Nobel Laureate who leads the experiment -- and is among the project's 200 scientists from the United States, Italy, Switzerland, Russia, China, Taiwan, Germany, Finland and other nations. Despite his participation, Salamon doubts the experiment will find cosmic antimatter because such a discovery would overturn fundamental physics theories that explain why the observable universe is made of matter. So Salamon helped convince Ting to modify the experiment so it also can detect gamma rays. The gamma rays could betray the existence of so-called "dark matter." Based on motions of galaxies, scientists believe perhaps 95 percent of the universe is made of unseen dark matter, but they haven't identified what it all is. What is antimatter? "It's stuff just like we are," Salamon said. "Antimatter is just like matter except it's sort of the opposite. Once you get used to it, it's just like regular stuff." Matter is made up of particles such as protons, neutrons and electrons in atoms. Antimatter particles have the same mass but opposite electrical charge of their matter counterparts. Protons are positive; antiprotons are negative. Electrons are negative; antielectrons -- known as positrons -- are positive. Positrons and antiprotons made by atom smashers survive only an instant and in amounts too tiny to cause big explosions. In our corner of the universe, exploding stars produce antimatter positrons. When billions of collapsed stars collect at the center of a galaxy, they form a supermassive black hole that produces positrons and perhaps antiprotons. Antiprotons also are made when gases in our galaxy are hit by high-speed particles of matter called cosmic rays. The AMS experiment will look for other cosmic ray particles that may be made of antihelium or anticarbon hurled toward Earth from at least 100 million light years beyond our galaxy, or at least 600 billion billion miles away, Salamon said. If antistars existed in our part of the universe, we would detect certain gamma rays generated by the annihilation of matter and antimatter. Salamon doubts AMS will find cosmic antimatter because such gamma rays have not been seen by other experiments and because if cosmic antimatter exists, it meanders through space and might not have had time to reach Earth. Gamma rays are photons -- particles of light -- with "a billion times more energy than photons emitted by a light bulb," Salamon said. They are generated by numerous phenomena, including black holes and exploding stars. Astronomers recently reported a gamma ray burst from a distant, mysterious explosion so powerful it released almost as much energy as all the stars in the universe. Gamma rays also can be generated by the unseen "dark matter" that makes up most of the universe. Once the AMS experiment is modified as suggested by Salamon and an Italian colleague, the magnet not only will be able to detect cosmic antimatter directly, but also gamma ray flashes from dark matter or from distant annihilation of matter and cosmic antimatter. "Mike Salamon is basically a high priest for us," Ting quipped. "Mike plays an important role. Mike is the one who realized we can use this experiment to measure very high-energy gamma rays." AMS will look for gamma rays that may have been created by dark matter that may form a halo around our galaxy. Some dark matter may be in the form of shrunken stars called white dwarfs, Jupiter-like planets, dense neutron stars and black holes. But scientists suspect much dark matter may be WIMPs -- weakly interacting massive particles - that surround galaxies but pass through Earth because they interact so weakly with other particles. WIMPs include theorized, never-seen particles called neutralinos. Neutralinos can be either matter or antimatter, so when they collide, they annihilate each other to produce gamma rays, antiprotons and positrons. AMS will try to detect antiprotons from dark matter during its shuttle flight, but it mainly will look for dark matter neutralinos by trying to detect gamma rays when it rides on the space station. By LEE SIEGE, Salt Lake Tribune. Distributed by Scripps-McClatchy Western Service. Copyright =A91998 Nando.net * Do you have some feedback for the Nando Times staff?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 21 Re: The Paradigm Clock From: MDJ50@webtv.net (Mike Jamieson) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:05:45 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 08:25:25 -0400 Subject: Re: The Paradigm Clock >From: ParadigmRG <ParadigmRG@aol.com> [Stephen Bassett] >Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 05:28:47 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: The Paradigm Clock More UFO students and researchers are identifying the keepers of UFO secrets as persons operating from highly classified positions without the knowledge of our elected leaders. Even the President, some feel, is out of the loop. If so, the outlook for official disclosure becomes much more dismal. Some persons, like Dr. Greer, are creatively searching for alternative ways (via private avenues) of exposing UFO realty while others, like Stephen Bassett, continue to try to arouse the sleeping three branches of government and the press in hopes of creating successful pressure for official disclosure. Both paths should be supported and appreciated. So far as how close and how fast we get to midnight on the Paradigm Closck depends on the focus and efforts of all of us.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 21 Re: Strieber on CSPAN? From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 05:11:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 08:32:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? >From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 00:35:36 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Strieber on CSPAN? >>Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 13:17:16 -0400 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Strieber on CSPAN? Bob wrote: >>Strieber has gone up in my opinion dramatically after Secret >>School and Confirmation. He seems to have gotten a grip on >>himself, and on what has been happening around/to him. Joe responded: >I can't believe it. I agree with John Velez and Bob Shell on the >same night. The end must be near! Where's Allen Funt? >Actually, it's nice to write an email with no anger in my >fingers. If the agreement has something to do with W Strieber and Bob's stated opinion of him, then scratch me off of the short list Joe. I have a relatively low opinion of Whitley these days. >>You might not know this, but when Whitley published his >>bsetseller COMMUNION, from which his reputation sprang, >>the entire book was a hoax. I have it from those in the publishing >>field that published that very book ---- a top high ranking editor >>---- that COMMUNION was not a true story, but a "journey from >>one place to another" in a fictional realm. I've heard the same thing from different sources. Don't know if it's true or not. Unless something like that can be substantiated it's best to ignore it until some credible evidence is presented. Anybody can say anything about anyone. Just words unless it's backed up by facts. Peace, John Velez ___________________________________________________________________________ AIC INTERACTIVE CONFERENCE http://www.IF-AIC.com jvif@spacelab.net ___________________________________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 21 UFO Roundup and Filer's Files Search Engines From: John Hayes <ufoinfo@cableinet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:32:33 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 19:35:18 -0400 Subject: UFO Roundup and Filer's Files Search Engines For those people using the archives of UFO Roundup and Filer's Files for research purposes I have now set up Search Engines to perform keyword searching on all bulletins. The URLs are: UFO Roundup:- http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/search.html Filer's Files:- http://ufoinfo.com/filer/search.html Hoping this is of some help. John Hayes ufoinfo@cableinet.co.uk webmaster@ufoinfo.com UFOINFO:- http://ufoinfo.com UFO Roundup:- http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/ Filer's Files:- http://ufoinfo.com/filer/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 21 Re: The Paradigm Clock From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 09:28:53 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 19:34:00 -0400 Subject: Re: The Paradigm Clock >From: MDJ50@webtv.net (Mike Jamieson) >Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:05:45 -0700 >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: The Paradigm Clock >More UFO students and researchers are identifying the keepers of >UFO secrets as persons operating from highly classified positions >without the knowledge of our elected leaders. Even the President, >some feel, is out of the loop. What is a "UFO student"? The concept of a compartmentalized control is certainly not new, nor surprising. >If so, the outlook for official disclosure becomes much more >dismal. Some persons, like Dr. Greer, are creatively searching >for alternative ways (via private avenues) of exposing UFO realty >while others, like Stephen Bassett, continue to try to arouse the >sleeping three branches of government and the press in hopes of >creating successful pressure for official disclosure. Both paths >should be supported and appreciated. I've heard a great deal of hype about Dr. Greer's efforts, and somewhat less about Stephen Bassett's, but if you can point to any positive impact that it has had in breaking through the "barrier of silence", please post it for all to see. There is much going on behind the scenes, involving scientists and valid research efforts, and I have a great deal more trust in those who don't seek publicity or try to energize the public into supporting their efforts. I don't doubt that both Greer and Bassett are sincere in their efforts, but their methodology is IMHO flawed. You aren't going to gain the respectibility of Congress or the Press by making blanket, unsupported, statements of "fact", and we are dealing with a situation in which it is probably better to not say anything until you have your evidence lined up. So far I've not seen that either have anything more than annecdotal allegations that are (thus far) unsupported by the evidence at hand. If you know differently, please let us all know. >So far as how close and how fast we get to midnight on the >Paradigm Closck depends on the focus and efforts of all of us. IMHO, the Paradigm Clock is a cute gimmick, but little more than that. Let's not get caught up in cute phrases, which only have meaning if you accept the premise being promoted. You're preaching to the choir here, and there's enough of that already. Steve Kaeser
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 21 Re: Strieber on CSPAN? From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Thu, 21 May 98 09:54:32 PDT Fwd Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 19:43:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 05:11:20 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > >From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia] > >Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 00:35:36 EDT > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Strieber on CSPAN? > >>Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 13:17:16 -0400 > >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> > >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Strieber on CSPAN? > >>You might not know this, but when Whitley published his > >>bsetseller COMMUNION, from which his reputation sprang, > >>the entire book was a hoax. I have it from those in the publishing > >>field that published that very book ---- a top high ranking editor > >>---- that COMMUNION was not a true story, but a "journey from > >>one place to another" in a fictional realm. > I've heard the same thing from different sources. Don't know if > it's true or not. Unless something like that can be substantiated > it's best to ignore it until some credible evidence is > presented. A good point. I was told the same story by a New York editor when I was in the city discussing book projects in the spring of last year. When I pressed him for specifics, he promptly got vaguer and vaguer. This seems more like a publishing-industry rumor than a firmly grounded fact. None of which means that one ought to read Strieber without a saltshaker at hand. For example, in Communion he writes that he never got to interview Robert Sarbacher because Sarbacher died "a few days before I became aware" of him. Eight years later, though, in Breakthrough, Strieber quotes all sorts of interesting things from his alleged interview with Sarbacher. Maybe they talked through a spiritualist medium. Pass the salt, please. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 21 Re: Strieber on CSPAN? From: buck@cchat.com [Bill Weber] Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:04:04 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 19:38:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 05:11:20 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > >From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> > >Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 00:35:36 EDT > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Strieber on CSPAN? > >>You might not know this, but when Whitley published his > >>bsetseller COMMUNION, from which his reputation sprang, > >>the entire book was a hoax. I have it from those in the publishing > >>field that published that very book ---- a top high ranking editor > >>---- that COMMUNION was not a true story, but a "journey from > >>one place to another" in a fictional realm. Velez wrote, > I've heard the same thing from different sources. Don't know if > it's true or not. Unless something like that can be substantiated > it's best to ignore it until some credible evidence is > presented. Agreed, but very difficult to do. It is hard to imagine the impact that man has had on lives, not to mention marketing. Here's a silly question. Does someone on the list actually KNOW something about this and can prove it? He's a wonderful writer. If true and Communion was a marketing idea, I would have to think of Strieber with the same mixture of disgust and admiration I feel for the folks who periodically rob Brink's trucks. Sincerely, Bill
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 21 Re: Strieber on CSPAN? From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia] Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:27:42 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 23:06:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? >>UfoJoe wrote: >>I can't believe it. I agree with John Velez and Bob Shell on the >>same night. The end must be near! Where's Allen Funt? >>Actually, it's nice to write an email with no anger in my >>fingers. Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 05:11:20 -0500 To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? >If the agreement has something to do with W Strieber and Bob's >stated opinion of him, then scratch me off of the short list Joe. >I have a relatively low opinion of Whitley these days. John, No, I was referring to your Egypt/Hawass post. I'm fully aware of your feelings towards Whitley. That's one of the reason I took the time to post a review of his book. I wanted a different view to be seen. Actually, the list of Whitley supporters is pretty large. I have yet to meet somebody who has met Whitley, that has anything bad to say about him. Everybody I know has gotten a lot out of his books. They have helped many people deal with the alleged abduction scenario. I try not to say anything bad about anybody. Who the hell am I to criticize others? Joe P.S. - My wife and I are coming to Long Island in late June. It;s our first year anniversary. I'm a native Long Islander. That's where we got married. Maybe we could get together and take turns reading Communion to each other. Just kidding. Obviously! Are you a Yankee/Ranger fan or a Met/Islander fan? It seems to run that way. I'm in the minority as a Met/Ranger fan. And Knick fan.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 21 Info request From: ParadigmRG <ParadigmRG@aol.com> [Stephen G. Bassett] Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 15:22:02 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 22:57:40 -0400 Subject: Info request [Posted with the proviso that you post the list you compile to UpDates --ebk] I am in need of the names of major (Fortune 1000) companies which have utilized alien imagery in their advertisements during the last 5 years. By alien imagery I am referring to concepts drawn from abduction/contact research rather than from the pure imagination of the production artists. Thanks in advance for your assistance. SB
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 21 Re: 200 Physicists Search For Antistars And From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com> [Robert Gates] Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:17:51 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 23:01:51 -0400 Subject: Re: 200 Physicists Search For Antistars And > From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 03:24:14 +0200 > Subject: 200 Physicists Search For Antistars And Antipeople > From: The Salt Lake Tribune via Scripps-McClatchy Western Service > and the Nando Times. URL: > http://www2.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/health/052098/health4_3722_noframes.html > Stig > ******* > Experiment hopes to uncover universe's dark secrets About this time we hear a large rumble and look up as a Imperial Star destroyer is passing over earth. This scene then cuts to a dude with a flowing black robe and a large black helmet, with noises sounding like a mechanical respiratory going. Vader: Call Lord Willy and find out why he has failed to deliver as promised. A few minutes later. Communications Officer: As you instructed I called but I ended up speaking to an aide because Lord Willy was in conference with a couple of female interns and left orders to not be disturbed. His aide said that what you thought the He said, was not in fact what he mean't and that the truth of the moment was that he didn't promise to deliver you anything. And so we now find out about another dark secret of the universe.. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 21 Re: The Paradigm Clock From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:46:15 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 22:55:35 -0400 Subject: Re: The Paradigm Clock >From: MDJ50@webtv.net (Mike Jamieson) >Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:05:45 -0700 >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: The Paradigm Clock >>From: ParadigmRG <ParadigmRG@aol.com> [Stephen Bassett] >>Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 05:28:47 EDT >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: The Paradigm Clock >More UFO students and researchers are identifying the keepers of >UFO secrets as persons operating from highly classified positions >without the knowledge of our elected leaders. Even the President, >some feel, is out of the loop. Oh poop! Please, name names if you're going to make conspiratorial accusations. I'm sorry, I'm just tired of people getting away with making statements such as these without (ever) offering -one shred- of evidence or information that can be followed up and checked out. >If so, the outlook for official disclosure becomes much more >dismal. Some persons, like Dr. Greer, are creatively searching >for alternative ways (via private avenues) of exposing UFO realty Let me "shift your paradigm" for you. I don't trust Greer! There are _many_others_ who agree. His behavior and tactics in the past are inexcusable and have never been answered or resolved. If he is relying on the publics 'short memory,' tell him not to worry. I'm here to remind them _everytime_ he pokes his pointy little head up above the fence. Greer is one who loves to make (completely unsubstantiated) claims and accusations. ie; The "government is responsible for 98% of all the abductions reported." What a load! Listen, I'm not going to rewrite my remarks and observations about Dr Greer. If anyone is interested, the UFO UpDates archive still has all of those posts. If you are not familiar with Dr Greer and his CSETI (the CS in CSETI stands for, "Cash Scam" I think) I highly recommend a visit to the archive. >So far as how close and how fast we get to midnight on the >Paradigm Closck depends on the focus and efforts of all of us. And, if loose cannon, Rockefeller funded jamokes like Greer would stop gunking up the works with their -private agendas- the hands on the clock would probably move a lot faster. We need a consensus and a person that was chosen _by_the_people_ to represent (us) in Washington. It's not a position that one appoints oneself to. Capiche? Greer still hasn't gotten that one. "In peace and preservation of our precious bodily fluids" General Ripper (aka: John Velez, speaking for myself) ___________________________________________________________________________ AIC INTERACTIVE CONFERENCE http://www.IF-AIC.com jvif@spacelab.net ___________________________________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 22 Re: Strieber on CSPAN? From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:53:17 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 07:58:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > From: buck@cchat.com [Bill Weber] > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:04:04 -0400 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 05:11:20 -0500 > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > > >From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> > > >Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 00:35:36 EDT > > >To: updates@globalserve.net > > >Subject: Strieber on CSPAN? > > >>You might not know this, but when Whitley published his > > >>bsetseller COMMUNION, from which his reputation sprang, > > >>the entire book was a hoax. I have it from those in the publishing > > >>field that published that very book ---- a top high ranking editor > > >>---- that COMMUNION was not a true story, but a "journey from > > >>one place to another" in a fictional realm. > Velez wrote, > > I've heard the same thing from different sources. Don't know if > > it's true or not. Unless something like that can be substantiated > > it's best to ignore it until some credible evidence is > > presented. > Agreed, but very difficult to do. It is hard to imagine the > impact that man has had on lives, not to mention marketing. > Here's a silly question. Does someone on the list actually KNOW > something about this and can prove it? > He's a wonderful writer. If true and Communion was a marketing > idea, I would have to think of Strieber with the same mixture of > disgust and admiration I feel for the folks who periodically rob > Brink's trucks. I always come back to the fact that Strieber did not restrict his experiences to himself but his family - in particular his son - as well. When I wonder at Strieber's motives for writing Communion, whether for truth or for avarice, I think of his mention of his son. How far do you have to go to make a buck. My gut feeling is that Strieber is a better man than that. There's a problem in this field as we all know. If you write about it it can't be a personal thing. If you see one, then you have no credibility as an investigator. There's so much horseshit in this field it makes it hard to get down and boogie. Don
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 22 Re: Info request From: "Steven Kaeser" <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 23:29:21 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:01:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Info request >From: ParadigmRG <ParadigmRG@aol.com> [Stephen G. Bassett] >Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 15:22:02 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Info request >[Posted with the proviso that you post the list you compile > to UpDates --ebk] >I am in need of the names of major (Fortune 1000) companies which >have utilized alien imagery in their advertisements during the >last 5 years. By alien imagery I am referring to concepts drawn >from abduction/contact research rather than from the pure >imagination of the production artists. >Thanks in advance for your assistance. >SB Someone might want to contact the major Madison Avenue advertising firms for this type of information. Unless we can assume that these companies monitor this list, we're left with only our vague recollections of commercials we have seen. However, I'm not sure what is to be gained by chasing after the firms that utilize this genre for their own profits because they feel the subject will help to sell their products. Unless you feel they are part of the process being used to prepare us for the truth. Just a thought.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 22 Filer's Files #20 From: Majorstar <Majorstar@aol.com> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:20:29 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 07:54:54 -0400 Subject: Filer's Files #20 Filer's Files #20-1998 MUFON Skywatch Investigations George A. Filer, MUFON Eastern Director, May 21, 1998, Majorstar@aol.com (609) 654-0020 NEW ROSWELL REVELATIONS CLEAR GENERAL RAMEY Victor Marchetti says, "We have, indeed, been contacted perhaps even visited by extraterrestrial beings, and the US government, in collusion with the other national powers of the Earth, is determined to keep this information from the general public. Victor Marchetti, former Special Assistant to the Executive Director of the CIA, in an article written by him for Second Look entitled "How the CIA views the UFO Phenomenon", Vol. 1, No 7, May 1979. PHOTOGRAPHER CLAIMS "NO SWITCH OF UNKNOWN MATERIALS" I�ve spent many hours discussing the Roswell case with Dr. James Bond Johnson, who photographed and handled the crash debris. He sent me the following remarkable e mail: "Modern photo technology has debunked a longtime charge by UFO writers of a blatant "cover-up" by Air Force Lt. General Roger M. Ramey in connection with the sensational Roswell Incident of 1947, which involved the announced "capture" of a crashed UFO. The results of a new digital scan applied to super-enlargements of the famous UFO photos taken by a reporter-photographer for the Fort Worth Star-Telegram show that the debris displayed in General Ramey's 8th Air Force Headquarters office in Fort Worth on July 8, 1947, is clearly consistent with eyewitness descriptions of the world's best-known "flying saucer" which had crashed near Roswell, New Mexico, a few days before and is not a "weather balloon" which had been substituted on orders of General Ramey. This includes clear identification of the "hieroglyphic-like" characters displayed along stick-like structures, including I-beams, and inclusion of very thin, but super strong metal-like material that resisted bending or crumpling. The new photos were specially enlarged from the original Roswell Incident negatives The resulting new discoveries discredit frequently repeated theories of several UFO writers that General Ramey had concocted the "weather balloon" ruse and then ordered the substitution of the "weather balloon" for the real wreckage, which had been flown secretly to Wright-Patterson Air Force base -- then known as Wright Field -- in Ohio for "further analysis" and where it reportedly has been kept under tight security for more than a half century. The newly obtained, digitally enhanced photographs reveal for the first time that "out of this world" qualities described by Major Jesse A. Marcel, Sr., Intelligence Officer stationed then at Roswell Army Air Base, who retrieved parts of the wreckage of the alleged alien-operated craft, are clearly established in the photos. The photographs were taken by J. Bond Johnson, who had been a reporter for the Star-Telegram since January of 1943. At the time of the Roswell Incident in 1947, Johnson had been discharged from the Army Air Corps after World War II service, which included training as an aircraft mechanic and pilot. He has practiced as a clinical psychologist and United Methodist minister for the past 35 years in Long Beach, California. He also is a retired Army colonel. Upon arrival at General Ramey's office on July 8, 1947, Johnson unpacked portions of the wreckage from its paper wrappings and arranged the pieces for the photos while awaiting the arrival of General Ramey at his office. Johnson then took six shots with General Ramey, Colonel (later Brig. General) Thomas J. Dubose, Ramey's chief of staff, and Major (later Lt. Col.) Marcel, who had couriered the wreckage from Roswell to Ramey's headquarters in Fort Worth. Other packages of the wreckage, still unopened, also appear in the photos. The frequently quoted descriptions by Marcel, and repeated by Marcel's son, Dr. Jesse A. Marcel, Jr., an Army helicopter pilot and flight surgeon, who was shown some of the wreckage parts by his dad prior to their being turned over to the Roswell base commander, are further corroborated by civilian eye witnesses who were employees of the Brazell Ranch 85 miles northwest of Roswell, where the craft crashed, and some of their neighbors. The witnesses described the wreckage as including material that was "ver y lightweight, lead foil-like, very thin, metallic-like but not metal, and very tough." It also included very light "balsa-wood appearing sticks," including I-beams, some of which included "hieroglyphic-like" characters, possibly depicting some unknown writing. One witness described the "figures" as similar to the petroglyphs the ancient Native Americans etched on rocks in the Roswell area. Further, the witnesses described that some of the material, even though very thin, when crushed tended to "smooth-out" when released. There also was a quantity of black plastic looking material "which looked organic in nature that had either been melted or burned." Johnson also described the strong odor of burned debris when he was in the general's office with the wreckage. When questioned in 1979, Marcel -- who retired from the Air Force as a Lt. Colonel -- described the unusual markings on the sticks as "like Chinese writing....nothing you could make any sense out of." In his interviews Marcel stated that "they took one photo of me on the floor holding up some of the less-interesting metallic debris...pieces of the actual stuff we had found." Marcel said that the debris was scattered over a square mile of a ranch near Roswell. "It was something that must have exploded above ground and fell...it scattered all over." The new digitally enhanced super-enlargements clearly show the strange metallic debris as described, including some thin metal-like parts, which are quite rigid and smooth, and the I-beams identical with the witnesses' descriptions. Marcel stated that the solid members were mostly square, "of varied lengths, and along the length of some of those they had little markings...two color markings as I can recall...like Chinese writing." His son described the markings as "flower-like" figures printed along the sticks. Yet for nearly 20 years UFO writers have claimed that the Air Corps engaged in a dramatic fraud to protect the UFO wreckage from Roswell and to mislead the press -- and the American public. The story concocted by the writers tell it generally this way: When Marcell turned the portions of the UFO wreckage he had recovered ov er to his base commander, Colonel William Blanchard. Blanchard then dispatched an official public announcement that the Air Corps had "captured" a flying saucer. Blanchard then notified his boss, General Ramey, of the "capture." For some unknown reason, Ramey concocted a dramatic hoax. He sent the real UFO wreckage directly to Wright Field for study and ordered the burning of a weather balloon and Rawin target. The, he sent this debris as a fraudulent substitute along with Major Marcel to 8th Air Force Headquarters in Fort Worth. There, the bogus material was displayed in Ramey's office and the Star-Telegram was invited to send out a reporter-photographer to cover the story. Johnson was selected and dispatched by his editor with camera in hand. When Ramey told Johnson that he didn't know what the unimpressive looking debris was, Johnson took his pictures and left. No other media representatives were allowed to view the debris or to take any pictures. All these exotic actions were taken solely to mislead and misinform one 21-year- old photographer-reporter. Later that day, Ramey summoned a weather officer, Warrant Officer Irving Newton, and instructed him to agree that the debris in Ramey's office was only a "weather balloon" and Newton was then photographed holding portions of this debris. General Ramey then quickly went to a Fort Worth radio station and announced that his weather officer had decided that the Roswell crash was only a weather balloon with an attached radar target. Also, a news release was distributed to the press containing this false information. The press and the American public accepted the bogus story based on the word of a distinguished war-hero general. There never has been any reason given as to why Ramey would take such a drastic and risky action to deceive the press and the public in this very dramatic way. Roswell writers generally have continued to repeat the "balloon switch" fable. Nevertheless, Lt. Col. Marcel contended until his death in 1986 that the material he recovered and which he posed with in Ramey's office was "not part of any kind of weather balloon or experimental craft ... it was not made of anything available on earth." This description also has been corroborated by the civilian primary witnesses. Likewise, General Dubose was very clear when interviewed by UFO researcher Jaime Shandera. When asked to describe details of the photo session in General Ramey's office Dubose made the following statements: Shandera: J. Bond Johnson, reporter for the Fort Worth-StarTelegram, has stated that when he asked General Ramey what this debris was, Ramey said that he didn't know. You were present in that room at that time. Also, the Associated Press had carried a story indicating that General Ramey didn't know what the debris was when talking to (Air Corps Chief of Staff) General (Hoyt) Vandenberg in Washington." Dubose: "Well, that's true. None of us knew what it was." Shandera: "There are two researchers (Don Schmitt and Kevin Randle) who are presently saying that the debris in General Ramey's office had been switched and that you men had a weather balloon there." Dubose: "Oh Bull! That material was never switched." Shandera: "So what you're saying is that the material in General Ramey's office was the actual debris brought in from Roswell?" Dubose: "That's absolutely right." Shandera: "So not you or anyone else ever switched that material for the cover story." Dubose: "We never switched anything. We were under orders from Washingt on to look at that material. We wouldn't have switched anything. We were West Pointers -- we would never have done that." Shandera: "But General Ramey did put out a cover story that it was a wea ther device." Dubose: "Yes. We were ordered to get the press off our backs -- things were getting out of hand." Memories of witnesses may dim over the span of half a century and more. But West Pointer General Dubose remembered that day in July of 1947 very accurately it now appears. But digitally enhanced, super-enlarged photos taken by a 21-year-old reporter-photographer provide even a more convincing record. The debris of the Roswell crash photographed in General Ramey's office is indeed genuine. General Ramey, General Dubose and Lt. Colonel Marcel all were telling the truth about the Roswell Incident of 1947. Their reputations remain intact! Thanks to James Bond Johnson. Editor's Note: I feel it is important that these new revelations come out about the debris photos . I look forward to seeing the digitally enhanced images and the odd looking material that apparently is not part of the Mogul Balloon train! The photographer, Dr. Johnson told me some of the material was like modern plastic, that evidently was not available in 1947. It�s nice to recognize the officers involved were telling the truth. NEW JERSEY: Investigation continues into the sightings in Mulica Hill on May 9, 1998. The craft hovering over the area is described as a triangular shaped craft by three witnesses. The possible landing zone was erased by the plowing of the farmer�s field. There is evidence developing that this case could include abductions. Although, abductions are controversial even in the field of ufology, it is our mission to prove that the abductions are real or some other type of phenomena. I have every indication these people are honest and they have startling unexplained memories of seeing aliens. There has been no hypnosis, yet the mother and son can remember being taken and being on board a strange craft. She describes tremendous forces of acceleration, throwing her head back as the craft gained speed. In Dr. David Jacob's book the Threat, the Temple University professor claims we are in a battle for the ultimate control of Earth. It is easy to dismiss this as all nonsense until you investigate and talk to the abductees with an open mind. Abductees are on the front lines in this battle and feel they are being taken on a regular basis. Often their lives are in turmoil and they spend most of their waking hours worrying about the affects on their families. The testimony of many witnesses who have unexplained scars on their bodies does not seem to provide enough proof to validate their claims. Yet the same people would probably be believed in a court of law, if they were witnesses against a murderer or intruder. I�m not aware of any abduction being proven at least to the satisfaction of the authorities. The identity of the abductees can remain confidential, but we need to attempt to prove the abductions are occurring. Once that is established, we can take realistic countermeasures to stop the abductions. My experience has been that the abductees seem honest and are generally fine group of people. They are calling for help but, our society is not really listening. Most abductees have been afraid to reach out, and go to the authorities because they feel they won�t be believed. The situation is not too different from sexual abuse of children. For years children claimed they were the victims or abuse but they were generally not believed. However, proof of sexual abuse can now be proven and I feel we can verify the abduction scenario in the near future. Frankly, we need cooperation from science, the medical field, legal advice, inquiring news media, police and public authorities. Many police for example are joining MUFON, Skywatch and similar organizations. Abductees and families of abductees need to unite and visit the authorities despite embarrassment. You can intelligently explain you believe you have prowlers on your property on a regular basis and you would like your home watched particularly at night. Further, you may request all unusual reports concerning your neighborhood. Dr. John Mack's book, Abductions or Dr. David Jacobs books can be helpful to leave with anyone in authority such as your mayor, police chief or doctor. The abductee is in a difficult situation. Most people just don't believe their story. Fantastic stories require particularly good evidence. We are starting to get some preliminary evidence. We have watched abductees homes and placed video cameras in their bedrooms. Only an electrical-plasma or light has been observed. Video cameras, alarms and similar devices seem to slow the number of abductions but, I�ve never seen a video of an alien. We�re told the aliens catch on pretty fast and do everything possible to maintain their secrecy. So we must use various counter-measures and new techniques to out smart them. If you feel you are an abductee, we encourage you to join support groups. I encourage discovery of scientific methods to prove the abductions. Most people can obtain medical care free or through their insurance. As a patient you can demand blood tests, and a complete medical check up including photos of the body. At least all scars should be noted in your records. Women should have OB-GYN exams. Attempt to keep careful daily records concerning your body and pregnancies. Consider your bedroom as a crime scene and attempt to collect evidence. If you suspect an abduction your night clothes should be placed in a ziplock bag for laboratory analysis. If there is any evidence in it is likely to be small or microscopic. A wooden spoon and small glass jars are useful for collecting samples of strange marks, powders. We have strong indications of radiation and strong electromagnetic effects surrounding an abduction. There does seem to be some type of radiation on board these craft. Medical tests may discover anomalies, unusual blood results and we may get a surprise. This is a type of evidence that can be very powerful in court. So keep up the good fight. GEORGIA: On Tuesday May 5, 1998, at 7:30PM, a former eight-year Air Force veteran reports seeing a strange "star-like" object moving strangely. The witness, now a college-educated chief electrician, who lives near Corinth in southeastern Heard County said he is certain that what he saw was not a planet, star, meteorite, satellite or man-made aircraft. Looking to the west he saw the blue light for about 5 minutes at 50 degrees above the horizon. The UFO then took "1-1 1/2 minutes" to move to the northwest and while moving changed color to red. Sitting there for 30 seconds, the UFO went straight up to approximately 60 degrees above the horizon. While moving it "faded" to a yellow color. After another 30 seconds the UFO started moving again. This time it took nearly a minute to go to the north and stayed there for nearly 5 minutes and turned to a "illuminated green" color. The UFO finally "circled back" to an orientation that was just south of where it had started moving and took nearly 5 minutes to reach this point. The witness said he continued to watch the strange light until 8PM. The UFO was still there at about a 250-260 degrees azimuth and at about 60 degrees above the horizon. It was the Air Force veteran's impression that the UFO was not in our atmosphere and was surveying an area in Alabama. Thanks to John Thompson FLORIDA: On Tuesday, May 12, 1998 a triangle shaped craft was seen hovering over the Gulf of Mexico for several minutes near Ft. Walton Beach. Three lights were visible on all three points of the triangle as well as a single beam of light that was shining down to the surface of the water. Four air force jets (probably from near by Eglin AFB) were also seen attempting to intercept the craft which immediately left the area. The next day "frogmen" were seen in the area where the light had been seen shining down to the ocean. This was witnessed by numerous people both from shore as well as individuals on a sail boat around 10:00 to 11:00 PM. Thanks to C. Leigh Culver ISUR. Editor's note: The Air Force claims that C-130 aircraft were dropping flares and conducting exercises on the nights of May 12, 13, and 14 and that may have caused confusion regarding the sightings. The investigation will continue. MICHIGAN Skywatch�s Doug Parrish reports that at 10:31 p.m. ET on May 19, 1998 a point of light the size of a star was seen moving slowly across the sky above Howell, MI, (55 miles NW of Detroit). The altitude of the light was approximately 85 degrees in the NE sky, almost overhead. Upon being observed, the point of light immediately started to glow brighter until in less than 2 seconds time it had become as bright as, if not brighter than, the sun at noon. Since it was only a point of light, it did not cast any appreciable shadow on the residential landscape. Once I had "acknowledged" the light as having been seen, it started to diminish in brightness and in a time span of five seconds, it had dimmed into invisibility. The light was moving slowly directly south. The entire observation lasted less than 10 seconds. The distance covered in that time was equivalent to the thumb and the index finger held at arm's length and spread apart by 7 inches. The temperature was 73 degrees with a clear sky. No noise was heard and there were no running lights. The sun had set about 8:55 p.m., so I immediately suspected the transpolar satellite, but satellites slip in and out of the Earth's shadow over a much greater expanse of sky. This is the second such observation of almost exactly the same nature and description, and even seen in the same spot in the sky. The first observation was on Labor Day evening in September, 1997. Thanks to Doug Parrish Michigan Director / Skywatch International AUSTRALIA The May 2, 1998, a flying saucer has been reported again 150 miles away from the first sighting.. This UFO seems to be confined to the East Gippsland district in Victoria, Australia. The craft was again sighted on May 8, 1998, and appeared to have US Air Force markings on its side. More later. Thanks to Ross Dowe ippoz@eisa.net.au. ASTRONAUT DONALD SLAYTON Donald Slayton a Mercury astronaut revealed in an interview he had seen UFOs in 1951: "I was testing a P-51 fighter in Minneapolis when I spotted this object. I was at about 10,000 feet on a nice, bright, sunny afternoon. I thought the object was a kite, then I realized that no kite is gonna fly that high." As I got closer it looked like a weather balloon, gray and about three feet in diameter. But as soon as I got behind the darn thing it didn't look like a balloon anymore. It looked like a saucer, a disk. About the same time, I realized that it was suddenly going away from me -- and there I was, running at about 300 miles per hour. I tracked it for a little way, and then all of a sudden the damn thing just took off. It pulled about a 45 degree climbing turn and accelerated and just flat disappeared." Eric Howarth TheBlackVault http://www.blackvault.com/s5/contact.html. Send your comments and reports to George Filer, at Majorstar @aol.com.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 22 Re: Info request From: Theresa Carlson <Tcarlson1@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 01:36:45 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:19:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Info request >From: ParadigmRG <ParadigmRG@aol.com> [Stephen G. Bassett] >Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 15:22:02 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Info request Dear Stephen, >I am in need of the names of major (Fortune 1000) companies which >have utilized alien imagery in their advertisements during the >last 5 years. While overall this sounds like it would be an interesting study, I am wondering about the second statement. >By alien imagery I am referring to concepts drawn >from abduction/contact research rather than from the pure >imagination of the production artists. How would one know the difference? For example, a movie called Invaders From Mars, had so many of the aspects that we see bandied about by abduction/contact researchers. It had big eyed aliens kidnapping people, placing them on a table to do medical exams or procedures, implanting them with alien objects. The instruments described by and sketched by some alleged abductees are even remarkably similar. I doubt the writers did any "abduction" research since it was originally released as a movie in 1953. It likely came from the imagination of the author. So how would one tell, and what difference would it make in the end? Regards, Theresa Carlson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 22 Re: Strieber on CSPAN? From: John <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 02:30:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:22:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? >From: buck@cchat.com [Bill Weber] >Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:04:04 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? >> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 05:11:20 -0500 >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > >> >From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> >> >Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 00:35:36 EDT >> >To: updates@globalserve.net >> >Subject: Strieber on CSPAN? >> >>You might not know this, but when Whitley published his >> >>bsetseller COMMUNION, from which his reputation sprang, >> >>the entire book was a hoax. I have it from those in the publishing >> >>field that published that very book ---- a top high ranking editor >> >>---- that COMMUNION was not a true story, but a "journey from >> >>one place to another" in a fictional realm. >Velez wrote, >> I've heard the same thing from different sources. Don't know if >> it's true or not. Unless something like that can be substantiated >> it's best to ignore it until some credible evidence is >> presented. >Agreed, but very difficult to do. It is hard to imagine the >impact that man has had on lives, not to mention marketing. >Here's a silly question. Does someone on the list actually KNOW >something about this and can prove it? >He's a wonderful writer. If true and Communion was a marketing >idea, I would have to think of Strieber with the same mixture of >disgust and admiration I feel for the folks who periodically rob >Brink's trucks. >Bill Hi Bill, hi All, Bill wrote: >He's a wonderful writer. If true and Communion was a marketing >idea, I would have to think of Strieber with the same mixture of >disgust and admiration I feel for the folks who periodically rob >Brink's trucks. As someone who is having similar experiences, I have always found Whitleys' accounts to be a strange mix of truth and imaginative speculation. Like Jerry Clarke said, "keep a shaker of salt handy when reading Strieber." <G> Please note that I'm qualifying my next statement. -As long as you don't take it _all_ onboard as "Gospel"- Whitley can be a fun/frightening/informative read. If taken literally, without the application of any critical thinking or evaluation you'll be left with a confusing melange of the real, and his own private dreamscape. As long as you're "thinking" while you're reading it I don't think his stuff can harm you. Enjoy it as you would any novel. <G> Peace, John Velez ___________________________________________________________________________ AIC INTERACTIVE CONFERENCE http://www.IF-AIC.com jvif@spacelab.net ___________________________________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 22 Crazy Week From: Masinaigan <Masinaigan@aol.com> [Joseph Trainor] Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 07:30:12 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:29:58 -0400 Subject: Crazy Week Dear List: Some very strange shit has been going down this week. The May 21, 1998 issue of USA Today, page C-1, reported that the Galaxy 4 satellite performed its unauthorized yaw maneuver while over the central USA sometime Tuesday evening, May 19th. Question: what day, date and time did the SETI crew in southern Illinois pick up that "spike" transmission? There were an awful lot of UFO sightings on Tuesday night, in Michigan, Indiana, Ohio and in Adelaide, S.A. Australia. We seem to be moving a little beyond the realm of coincidence here.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 22 Re: Strieber on CSPAN? From: John <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 02:53:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:24:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? >Date: Thu, 21 May 98 09:54:32 PDT >> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 05:11:20 -0500 >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? >> >From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia] >> >Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 00:35:36 EDT >> >To: updates@globalserve.net >> >Subject: Strieber on CSPAN? >> >>Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 13:17:16 -0400 >> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> >>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Strieber on CSPAN? >> >>You might not know this, but when Whitley published his >> >>bsetseller COMMUNION, from which his reputation sprang, >> >>the entire book was a hoax. I have it from those in the publishing >> >>field that published that very book ---- a top high ranking editor >> >>---- that COMMUNION was not a true story, but a "journey from >> >>one place to another" in a fictional realm. >> I've heard the same thing from different sources. Don't know if >> it's true or not. Unless something like that can be substantiated >> it's best to ignore it until some credible evidence is >> presented. >A good point. I was told the same story by a New York editor when >I was in the city discussing book projects in the spring of last >year. When I pressed him for specifics, he promptly got vaguer >and vaguer. This seems more like a publishing-industry rumor than >a firmly grounded fact. >None of which means that one ought to read Strieber without a >saltshaker at hand. For example, in Communion he writes that he >never got to interview Robert Sarbacher because Sarbacher died "a >few days before I became aware" of him. Eight years later, >though, in Breakthrough, Strieber quotes all sorts of interesting >things from his alleged interview with Sarbacher. Maybe they >talked through a spiritualist medium. Pass the salt, please. >Jerry Clark ------------- Hi Jerry, hi All, Jerry wrote: > For example, in Communion he writes that he >never got to interview Robert Sarbacher because Sarbacher died >"a few days before I became aware" of him. Eight years later, >though, in Breakthrough, Strieber quotes all sorts of interesting >things from his alleged interview with Sarbacher. Maybe they >talked through a spiritualist medium. Pass the salt, please. 1. Next time he's in LA he might want to hire one of those Hollywood "continuity" guys. :-D 2. If he's consulting a "medium" my $ says it's Lyssa Royal! You taking any action?<VBG> BTW, I've been reading and enjoying all of your posts Jerry. You're a terrific 'voice for reason and sanity' to have around on the list. No BS. Peace, John Velez ___________________________________________________________________________ AIC INTERACTIVE CONFERENCE http://www.IF-AIC.com jvif@spacelab.net ___________________________________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 22 Re: UFO Roundup and Filer's Files Search Engines From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 01:51:12 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:26:19 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Roundup and Filer's Files Search Engines >Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:32:33 +0100 >To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Hayes <ufoinfo@cableinet.co.uk> >Subject: UFO Roundup and Filer's Files Search Engines > For those people using the archives of UFO Roundup and Filer's > Files for research purposes I have now set up Search Engines to > perform keyword searching on all bulletins. > The URLs are: > UFO Roundup:- http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/search.html > Hoping this is of some help. John: This is an excellent idea! I wish everyone would add some sort of search device to their webs and pages. I tried it out and it works fine. Best Wishes - Larry Hatch.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 22 Re: Info request From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 06:43:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:32:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Info request > From: ParadigmRG <ParadigmRG@aol.com> [Stephen G. Bassett] > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 15:22:02 EDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Info request > [Posted with the proviso that you post the list you compile > to UpDates --ebk] > I am in need of the names of major (Fortune 1000) companies which > have utilized alien imagery in their advertisements during the > last 5 years. By alien imagery I am referring to concepts drawn > from abduction/contact research rather than from the pure > imagination of the production artists. > Thanks in advance for your assistance. > SB I'm glad someone else is interested in this. Take a random surf through your garden variety cable at any time of the day or night and the alien imagery pops up like mushrooms. Bart Simpson (Butterfinger) and Fred Flintstone (Fruity Pebbles) are the the latest players. I find these, and similar ads -- unsettling, and insulting. Lehmberg@snowhill.com -- Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 22 eSufo - Explaining a Lunar Mystery From: "David Watanabe ( www.exosci.com )" <davew@exosci.com> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 00:45:49 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:28:50 -0400 Subject: eSufo - Explaining a Lunar Mystery exoScience UFO * 5/22/98 * exosci.com/ufo * EXPLAINING A LUNAR MYSTERY Science News, Vol. 150, Nov. 16, 1996, p.314. by Ron Cowan As far back as the Middle Ages, sky watchers have reported seeing bright flashes, red and blue glows, and patches of mist or fog emanating from certain sites on the moon. Researchers have proposed several theories to explain these mysterious sightings, including volcanic activity, bombardment of the moon by high-energy cosmic rays, release of gases from beneath the lunar surface, and moonquakes. Most lunar geologists and professional astronomers, however, remain doubtful about these unconfirmed observations, known as lunar transient phenomena. Although Bonnie Buratti of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) in Pasadena, Calif., considers herself a skeptic, she and colleagues Kenneth Herkenhoff of JPL and Timothy Mcconnochie of Williams College in Williamstown, Mass., decided to explore the origin of the controversial phenomena. Using close-up images taken by Clementine, the spacecraft that orbited the moon for 71 days in 1994, the team sought to determine whether the sites most often associated with the glows, flashes, and mist have any common features, such as composition or age. In agreement with a suggestion in 1972 by astronomer Winifred Cameron of Flagstaff, Ariz., the team found that most reliable sightings - those reported since 1900, including some from a ground -based observation organized to coincide with the Clemintine mission - trace to the edges of dark, vast lava flows known as maria. At the edges of maria, the lunar phenomena were often associated with craters, such as Alphonsus and Picard, whose bluish spectra indicate that they contain unusually fresh deposits of material. Buratti and her colleagues suggest that these craters have suffered recent landslides, in which material from the walls or rims has slumped toward the center of the cavities. Dust kicked into the lunar atmosphere or volatile gases escaping from the moon's surface in the aftermath of a landslide might account for many of the mystery sightings, they propose. David Watanabe davew@exosci.com ____________________________________________________ exoScience UFO http://exosci.com/ufo/ **************************************************** To SUBSCRIBE / UNSUBSCRIBE, send email to: davew@exosci.com with either "subscribe ufo" or "unsubscribe ufo" (no quotation marks) in the SUBJECT. **************************************************** To POST, send email for approval to: davew@exosci.com ____________________________________________________ Written in the prosperous city of Calgary, AB Canada mailing list served via Cybersurf - www.cybersuf.net Copyright (c) 1998 David Watanabe - davew@exosci.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 22 Re: Strieber on CSPAN? From: Melempire <Melempire@aol.com> [Mel Donovan] Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:38:21 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:57:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? >From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia] >Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 21:44:30 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Strieber on CSPAN? Hi all I have just released a video programme featuring a 40 min interview with Strieber and I have to say that, he talks a good talk, and after watching the programme I have to say that we also seems to walk the walk. Mel;
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 22 Re: Strieber on CSPAN? From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia] Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:05:11 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:14:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? >Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:53:17 +0100 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? >I always come back to the fact that Strieber did not restrict his >experiences to himself but his family - in particular his son - >as well. >When I wonder at Strieber's motives for writing Communion, >whether for truth or for avarice, I think of his mention of his >son. How far do you have to go to make a buck. My gut feeling is >that Strieber is a better man than that. What does that have to do with if his experiences are real or not? If his his son was affected by the experiences, what is so bad about writing about it? Supposedly he was writing a truthful book that he hoped would help others going through the same thing. All details should have been included. Are we now judging what a "better man" would have done? What are you basing this on? Even if this is judged to be going over the line, does this mean his experiences aren't real? As far as Strieber making all this stuff up. Well, if you heard the surgeon, who tried to take out Whit's alleged implant in his ear, you would realize that something has happened to him. What that something is, nobody knows yet. When the doctor tried to remove the "implant" in his ear, the damn thing moved away from the scalpel. The surgeon had never seen anything like that. The object seemed to be set in place and before the operation. After the operation, (He didn't get it out) the object moved back to it's original position. This guy was on Art Bell a couple on Sundays ago. Like I said in the earlier post, read Confirmation and then comment on Strieber. It's so easy to question other people's motives or veracity of claims. Everybody should look in the mirror. Joe Murgia
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 23 Re: Strieber on CSPAN? From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 06:13:38 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 01:03:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:53:17 +0100 > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > To: updates@globalserve.net > > From: buck@cchat.com [Bill Weber] > > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:04:04 -0400 > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > > > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 05:11:20 -0500 > > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > > > >From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> > > > >Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 00:35:36 EDT > > > >To: updates@globalserve.net > > > >Subject: Strieber on CSPAN? > > > >>You might not know this, but when Whitley published his > > > >>bsetseller COMMUNION, from which his reputation sprang, > > > >>the entire book was a hoax. I have it from those in the publishing > > > >>field that published that very book ---- a top high ranking editor > > > >>---- that COMMUNION was not a true story, but a "journey from > > > >>one place to another" in a fictional realm. > > Velez wrote, > > > I've heard the same thing from different sources. Don't know if > > > it's true or not. Unless something like that can be substantiated > > > it's best to ignore it until some credible evidence is > > > presented. > > Agreed, but very difficult to do. It is hard to imagine the > > impact that man has had on lives, not to mention marketing. > > Here's a silly question. Does someone on the list actually KNOW > > something about this and can prove it? > > He's a wonderful writer. If true and Communion was a marketing > > idea, I would have to think of Strieber with the same mixture of > > disgust and admiration I feel for the folks who periodically rob > > Brink's trucks. > I always come back to the fact that Strieber did not restrict his > experiences to himself but his family - in particular his son - > as well. > When I wonder at Strieber's motives for writing Communion, > whether for truth or for avarice, I think of his mention of his > son. How far do you have to go to make a buck. My gut feeling is > that Strieber is a better man than that. > There's a problem in this field as we all know. If you write > about it it can't be a personal thing. If you see one, then you > have no credibility as an investigator. There's so much horseshit > in this field it makes it hard to get down and boogie. Before this trashfest goes any further, let me add one story in support of the authenticity of Strieber's accounts. I saw him speak in Los Angeles back in 1987-88 and he told the story about a night when he was battling with himself, trying to get up the courage to go down into the woods where he knew "they" were. He gave an approximation of "their" voice, something they said to him telepathically from the woods that night. I can't even begin to approximate the quality of voice, it would be difficult enough in person, and it's impossible in print. But Strieber's version was close enough that I was able to identify that quality of voice as virtually IDENTICAL to a similar experience I had with "them." I've never seen a reference to this in any of the literature, so neither one of us got this from other source. I can only conclude that we had a very similar experience with very similar beings. As many experiencers know, it is the small atypical experiences, strange little details that are not in the literature, that you question yourself about because they are so strange, that you inevitably discover are shared by at least a handful of others. I remember C.D.B. Bryan commenting on this in his CE4 book, telling a case where one of the ETs asked to try on a woman's highheels. Who could make this stuff up? And how could several individuals who don't know each other, and live thousands of miles apart, make up the same strange experiences? -- Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> ICQ Pager 6797092
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 23 Re: Info request From: RAMBLD@worldnet.att.net [Diane Lovett] Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 10:35:35 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 01:18:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Info request > Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 06:43:06 -0500 > From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Info request > > From: ParadigmRG <ParadigmRG@aol.com> [Stephen G. Bassett] > > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 15:22:02 EDT > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Info request > > I am in need of the names of major (Fortune 1000) companies which > > have utilized alien imagery in their advertisements during the > > last 5 years. By alien imagery I am referring to concepts drawn > > from abduction/contact research rather than from the pure > > imagination of the production artists. > > Thanks in advance for your assistance. > > SB > I'm glad someone else is interested in this. Take a random surf > through your garden variety cable at any time of the day or night > and the alien imagery pops up like mushrooms. Bart Simpson > (Butterfinger) and Fred Flintstone (Fruity Pebbles) are the the > latest players. I find these, and similar ads -- unsettling, and > insulting. Mr. Bassett, It will take a while, but I will start keeping a record of all the commercials I see using the greys as a gimmick, and post it later. I am curious though what your goal is in gathering this info. Alfred, like you I find this abundance of cutesy aliens, particularly in ads directed toward children, really offensive and disturbing. It does seem to be mushrooming, and I have thought about complaining to the advertisers but admit I am too wary of disclosing to them why I find them so distasteful. I have a 3 year old to whom the greys are a very real thing in her life, and she is affected by this bombardment of images very badly, and won't watch some of her favorite kid's shows on TV anymore because of it. There are also print ads, bumper stickers, buttons, stickers, you name it! The greys are clearly rapidly becoming a part of our cultural conciousness, and I for one very unsettled about that. Diane
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 23 Re: Filer's Files #20 From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:20:28 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 01:07:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Filer's Files #20 > From: Majorstar <Majorstar@aol.com> [George Filer] > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:20:29 EDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Filer's Files #20 > Filer's Files #20-1998 MUFON Skywatch Investigations > George A. Filer, MUFON Eastern Director, > May 21, 1998, Majorstar@aol.com (609) 654-0020 > Victor Marchetti says, "We have, indeed, been contacted > perhaps even visited > by extraterrestrial beings, and the US government, in > collusion with the other > national powers of the Earth, is determined to keep this > information from the > general public. Victor Marchetti, former Special Assistant to > the Executive > Director of the CIA, in an article written by him for Second > Look entitled > "How the CIA views the UFO Phenomenon", Vol. 1, No 7, May 1979. Oops. This quote has been doctored to make it stronger than what Marchetti really wrote. Here's how it appears in the Second Look article: "My theory is that we have, indeed, been contacted, perhaps even visited by extraterrestrial beings, and the US government, in collusion with the other national powers of the Earth, is determined to keep this information from the general public." See what a difference four little words can make? Marchetti is a credible CIA renegade, best known for his book "The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence." He heard almost nothing about UFOs during his years with the agency, but got the impression that the topic "seemed to fall into the category of 'very sensitive activites,' e.g. drug and mind-control operations, domestic spying, and other illegal actions." There were rumors, he adds, of unexplained sightings, unexplained radio signals, and alien bodies at Wright-Patterson, but he doesn't find them credible (except, perhaps, the rumors of unexplained radio signals). He does think that government attempts "to discount the significance of the phenomenon and to explain away the apparent lack of official interest in it have all the earmarks of a classic intelligence cover up." That's why he formed his theory -- for which, he says, he has no evidence other than his intuition. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 23 Re: Info request From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 15:40:54 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 01:09:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Info request >From: ParadigmRG <ParadigmRG@aol.com> [Stephen G. Bassett] >Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 15:22:02 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Info request >[Posted with the proviso that you post the list you compile > to UpDates --ebk] >I am in need of the names of major (Fortune 1000) companies which >have utilized alien imagery in their advertisements during the >last 5 years. By alien imagery I am referring to concepts drawn >from abduction/contact research rather than from the pure >imagination of the production artists. Hi Stephen, Don't know if your list should include non-American companies. I have seen tv commercials by Ericsson and Volkswagen that featured alien themes such as a UFO that approaches (VW) and Mulder and Scully types on a field investigation (Ericsson). These commercials aired in Europe on Discovery Channel and NBC. The only American company that I can think of now is Intel, which created a short movie in which the Pentium microprocessor was stolen by aliens. Hope this helps a bit. __________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Technology Pages http://home.worldonline.nl/~hvdp \______________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 23 Re: The Paradigm Clock From: MDJ50@webtv.net (Mike Jamieson) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:35:12 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 08:28:12 -0400 Subject: Re: The Paradigm Clock >Date: May 21, 1998 09 28-53-0400 >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com >Subject: The Paradigm Clock >What is a UFO student? >...if you can point to any positive impact that (Dr. Greer's >efforts] has had in breaking through the 'barrier of silence' >...we are dealing with a situation it is probably better to not say >anything until you have your evidence lined up.. >Date: Thursday 21 may 1998 14:46:15 -0500 >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net >Subject: The Paradigm Clock >Oh poop! Please, name names if you're going to make >conspiratorial accusations... >Let me 'shft your paradigm' for you. I don't trust Greer! I posted comments re. The Paradigm Clock that attempted to make essentially one point: that it's going to take hard and cooperative work on our part to expose classified information and conclusions related to UFO events. Obviously I wasn't very clear judging by the two responses. To begin with, in the second response I was accused of making conspiratorial accusations when I observed that more ufologists were wondering if our elected leaders were even aware of classified UFO-related operations and data. I was asked to name names of people with this point of view, as if I were some careless conspiracy buff making wild-eyed accusations, when all I was doing was observing what others have said quite openly. (Ok, some names: Whitley Strieber, Dr. Greer, Tracy Torme). Personally, I have no opinion on this matter due to a profound lack of information available. The first response was likewise puzzling as it was asserted we only had anecdotal evidence to present to the press (and we need to line up more evidence than that. Apparently we don't have enough evidence to make a case. Boy, that was news to me! And probably to ufologists like Ted Phillips who have gathered evidence from thousands of landing trace cass or to the many people who have filmed UFOs. or the radar operators recording radar readings of "UFOs". Perhaps this is a good time to answer Mr. Kaeser's question: What is a UFO student? Answer: Someone who studies UFOs (reported events, the history, the investigations, etc.). I think its fair and accurate to say that even a casual student of UFOs would realize that much more than testimony manifests (in the form of "physical" evidence) in cases of UFO reports. (not in all cases, just some.) In 1993 I was in charge of a demonstration at the White House and our group did a good job in lining up the evidence for many journalists. The evidence was properly characterized and credibly presented. As a result, we received respectful consideration from most of the journalists--especially John Holliman who aired a fair report of our event. Unfortuanately, an AP reporter had a dfferent agenda and latched onto a woman's crazy tale of flying a UFO. Nevertheless, many newspapers edited out that part. Dr. Greer has worked hard and clearly with good results. Sure , he's said and done some stupid things, making him like the rest of us. Clearly, he has raised the awareness of some journalists, members of Congress, and people in the Executive Branch. The attacks on Greer is just more of the strange nastiness andoneupmanship so prevalent in the UFO field.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 23 Re: Filer's Files #20 From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Fri, 22 May 98 10:30:09 PDT Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 08:31:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Filer's Files #20 > From: Majorstar <Majorstar@aol.com> [George Filer] > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:20:29 EDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Filer's Files #20 > Filer's Files #20-1998 MUFON Skywatch Investigations > George A. Filer, MUFON Eastern Director, > May 21, 1998, Majorstar@aol.com (609) 654-0020 > Victor Marchetti says, "We have, indeed, been contacted perhaps even visited > by extraterrestrial beings, and the US government, in collusion with the other > national powers of the Earth, is determined to keep this information from the > general public. Victor Marchetti, former Special Assistant to the Executive > Director of the CIA, in an article written by him for Second Look entitled > "How the CIA views the UFO Phenomenon", Vol. 1, No 7, May 1979. This statement is taken out of context. In the original, Marchetti makes clear that he is merely speculating. In fact, the quote above omits the opening words of the sentence: "My theory is that we have, indeed, been contacted...." Marchetti writes that UFOs were "rarely discussed" in his CIA experience, though "neither were they treated in a disdainful or derisive manner, especially not by the agency's scientists." He said most of what he heard were "rumors," and these largely "unimpressive." Marchetti's article, which is essentially an exercise in space, type, paper, and time waste, betrays his naivete on UFO matters. For example, he says, "Of all the evidence that exists with regard to UFOs, the single most impressive item (to my mind) is the Jimmy Carter experience." As no serious ufologist disputes, Carter saw Venus, not a UFO. Marchetti even gets the year (1969) of the sighting wrong (he has it in 1973). Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 23 Re: Strieber on CSPAN? From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 18:10:57 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 08:34:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia] > Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:05:11 EDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > >Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:53:17 +0100 > >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > >I always come back to the fact that Strieber did not restrict his > >experiences to himself but his family - in particular his son - > >as well. > >When I wonder at Strieber's motives for writing Communion, > >whether for truth or for avarice, I think of his mention of his > >son. How far do you have to go to make a buck. My gut feeling is > >that Strieber is a better man than that. > >What does that have to do with if his experiences are real or > >not? If his his son was affected by the experiences, what is so > >bad about writing about it? Supposedly he was writing a truthful > >book that he hoped would help others going through the same > >thing. All details should have been included. Are we now judging > >what a "better man" would have done? What are you basing this on? > >Even if this is judged to be going over the line, does this mean > >his experiences aren't real? > >As far as Strieber making all this stuff up. Well, if you heard > >the surgeon, who tried to take out Whit's alleged implant in his > >ear, you would realize that something has happened to him. What > >that something is, nobody knows yet. When the doctor tried to > >remove the "implant" in his ear, the damn thing moved away from > >the scalpel. The surgeon had never seen anything like that. > >The object seemed to be set in place and before the operation. > >After the operation, (He didn't get it out) the object moved back > >to it's original position. This guy was on Art Bell a couple on > >Sundays ago. Like I said in the earlier post, read Confirmation > >and then comment on Strieber. > >It's so easy to question other people's motives or veracity of > >claims. Everybody should look in the mirror. Sorry people, again, I don't get it, with all the interesting things going on in ufology why do some of us think it's necessary to spend two days on wether or not Strieber is truthfull. Guys, Get real, wasn't he a not too good selling, horror/fiction writer before? Tell me what, makes this man so special. "Why, the guys story sound so real.." EXACTLY! That's what writers do for a living. If we couldn't in anyway identify with his stories he wouldn't do his job right.And just because of these simple facts I regard Streiber not one of the most credible abductees (though I've talked with a lot!). Greetings from Cheesehead! Andy Denne.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 23 White dots/discs, daylight sightings From: John <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 13:01:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 08:36:04 -0400 Subject: White dots/discs, daylight sightings Hello All, I have been seeing and videotaping small white 'dots/discs' in the skies over New York for three years. I have had several of these looked at by knowledgable people (including Jeff Sanio) and the 'objects' (for want of a better term) remain unidentified. Their behavior ranges from hovering for extended periods of time to sudden and irratic movements and flight paths. Sometimes they dart off so fast it's hard to follow, or they may slowly begin to fly off in another direction from a dead standstill. They 'jitter' from side to side (like a tiny pendulum movement) when they are 'hovering.' They -are not- balloons, or airplanes, or helicopters. I have contacted astronomers that assure me that they cannot be stationary satellites (some of my sightings/recordings show the objects at zenith. Stationary satellite orbits would appear closer to the equator.) or planets or stars that are visible in the daylight. (Venus would appear lower in the western sky and no other planets or stars were in that position on that particular day. I checked.) I'm talking about -clear- daylight sightings. My question is, (and it's mostly aimed at Bruce Maccabee) what are these things? They are being recorded all over the world. They always remain tantalizingly out of range. And they vex us to explain them. Anybody? Peace, John Velez ___________________________________________________________________________ AIC INTERACTIVE CONFERENCE http://www.IF-AIC.com jvif@spacelab.net ___________________________________________________________________________
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 23 Re: Crazy Week From: Perry Mick <perrym@teleport.com> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:03:25 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 08:37:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Crazy Week > Some very strange shit has been going down this week. > The May 21, 1998 issue of USA Today, page C-1, reported > that the Galaxy 4 satellite performed its unauthorized yaw
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 23 Billy Meier admits: 'Asket' and 'Nera' pics ARE a From: Joachim Koch <JKoch1@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 17:10:29 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 08:56:00 -0400 Subject: Billy Meier admits: 'Asket' and 'Nera' pics ARE a Hi Errol, colleagues and friends! We always felt honoured to be members of Errol's mailing list and maybe now we can give back to you some of the excitement we felt when we read the latest news here or received your profound analysis and research results of various items in the large field of ufology. The following really is a big hammer and it shall be you all here on Errol's list to get this information first.. We publish it exclusively here and leave it to you to spread it anywhere - please do so. Do you remember our mails titled "Another Gurus Finale" which where published here since 1997? It was Luc Buergin, Switzerland, who did an interview with Billy Meier's ex-wife where she confirmed that Billy hoaxed the photographs he had published and which were under controversy for a long time. Immediately after publishing the article in the German UFO-KURIER, the editor, Jochen Kopp, and Luc received insulting letters written by Billy and his son and Kopp was also threatened by a lawyer of Mr. Meier. In March this year Kal Korff and Luc Buergin together interviewed Kalliope again. A video of an old Dean-Martin-Show which Kal Korff had digged in an archive was shown to her and she instantly recognized one of the female dancers in the show as the very person who Mr. Meier allegedly photographed aboard a pleiadian spaceship and who he named 'Asket'. So this was proof that Mr. Meier had faked the photographs of "Asket" by copying them from the tv screen. Remember that Mr. Meier, when asked for the strange tv-like frames in some of his pictures, he stated that these were kind of hoods around very sensitive instruments on board the space ship - in fact, some of them looked like very terrestrial old fashioned oscillographs. Today (May 22nd), about noon, I received an email from Luc Buergin who told me to have a look at the FIGU homepage. I did so - and wouldn't believe my eyes. I checked twice not be on a different homepage. No, It was FIGU's official homepage, section news, page title 'Asket'. I read: "Eine aeusserst unerfreuliche Anglegenheit" In English: " A very unpleasant affair" This is the headline of the foreword of contact report No. 264 of Thursday, May 14th, 1998, 00:55 am CET, written by Mr. Meier himself (article signed with "Billy") where the following first paragraph reads like this (original text in German, English translation here by me): "In the course of the latest contact talk with Ptaah very unpleasant facts surfaced regarding the two photographs Asket and Nera which up to date are listed under this description in the FIGU albums and which also have been sold. Unfortunately, during the talk with Ptaah, it now turned out that the two women shown on the photographs are not Asket and Nera from the DAL-Universe but their American doubles. These were mentioned by Ptaah in contact report No. 39 in 1975. These photographs are malicious frauds which were foisted on me, Billy, on behalf of and in collaboration with the "Men In Black". Explanations referring to that are included in the excerpts of the latest contact report which are given below to inform all friends, members, acquaintances and interested parties of the general perspectives and the baddish underhand dealings of the "Men In Black" and their hired helpers. Furthermore the aforementioned three photographs (No. 109, 110, 111 - unfortunately in the contact talk only two pics were mentioned because No. 109 is of very bad quality) will be not excluded from the range of photographs but will be kept and in the future marked with the note that the depicted two young women are the American doubles of Asket and Nera and that their outlook is so similar that practically there is no possibility of distinguishing them - except by the ones in question themselves. But now read on the excerpts of the contact reports of May 14th, 1998. Billy" So far the first paragraph. What follows then on the next six pages is really strange. After having read through the text I've got the impression that this man is somehow ill - it reminds me of an Roman Emperor who finally burned the City of Rome or of a man not too far back in our German history. You will not believe that Mr. Meier dares to present a dialogue between himself and a "Ptaah" as the frame for his attempt to explain why the two pictures - a n d o t h e r s - are frauds. In the beginning Mr. Meier laments about Korff, Buergin, Kalliope and the television show which is scheduled for July. It seems that Meier is afraid of this revelation. Suddenly "Ptaah" confirms that indeed the photographs do show the American doubles! Then Meier tries to establish the impression that he cannot remember what "Ptaah" and a "Quetzal" told him in 1985 about the pics. Meier continues to play the innocent and the victim.Then "Ptaah" expla=EDns that the cameraman of Meier, a Mr. S., is the real malefactor because this one collaborated with the "Men In Black". What follows then is the confirmation that the photographs of 'Asket' and 'Nera' are really taken from a "Revue-Show"[ - as Korff has found out !]. Furthermore, "Ptaah" reveals that nearly all the pictures of the first period of Meier's "contacts" are frauds because cameraman S. handed the films over to "Men In Black" who replaced them with prepared films showing the hoaxes we all know! And Mr. Meier is innocent because he didn't recognized the hoaxes and "Ptaah" didn't tell him what he already knew and so Mr. Meier always thought to present - and sell - genuine photographs. And of course, the film showing 'Asket' and 'Nera' was a fraud, too, and Mr. Meier again didn't recognized it because the "Men In Black" immediately found the two doubles and faked the film. So when Mr. Meier got the film back from the processing, he himself believed to see 'Asket' and couldn't distinguish from what really was in the picture - an American dancer. And even "Ptaah" and the other "Pleiadians" firstly didn't recognize the fraud - so brilliant was the work of the mighty "Men In Black". And there is another "force" at work influencing people to act against FIGU: the "impuls-telepathic negative activities of the Gizeh-Intelligences". And again and again, Mr. Meier claims to have forgotten all what "Ptaah" had told him about faked photographs - a real amnesia. And at the end of the article Mr. Meier asks "Ptaah" why he has not explained the whole affair to Mr. Meier later again because if he would have known that the photographs are fakes, he never would have sold them and would have withdrawn them from publishing. "Ptaah" answers: "Throughout the years, we didn't know that you have forgotten our explanations regarding this affair, otherwise we would have informed you again at a certain time, of course." So far the contents of Mr. Meiers latest contact report of May 14th, 1998. I'lI try my best to prepare a complete English translation of the German text up to Monday, May 25. It will be published at: http://www.ufos.de (were you also can see the photographs) and on my own homepage at: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jkoch1 You can find the German text at: http://www.figu.ch/de/schriften/wz107/asket.htm Well. Despite all the differences one or another might have with Mr. Korff, if we are fair, we have to acknowledge that Korff with the video of the Dean-Martin-Show has found the smoking gun of the Meier case. We have to acknowledge that the research of the team Korff/Buergin was successful. The knowledge that the real origin of the 'Asket' photographs was revealed and published worldwide must have had a deep impact into the "Semjase Silver Star Center" so that no one else than Mr. Meier himself felt compelled to release such a weird statement to try to save his face. And now, let's help the ones who were betrayed, the ones who followed Mr. Meier. Don't blame them, don't sneer at them. It is always hard to say good bye to a dream. Let's help them to re-integrate, to live again among us.
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 23 Hawas' Standing - Statement From Amargi Hillier From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 09:12:05 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 09:12:05 -0400 Subject: Hawas' Standing - Statement From Amargi Hillier From: The Art Bell Site http://bbs.daytaco.com/cgi-bin/WebX?14@@.ee6c827/25 sysop - 01:52pm May 21, 1998 PST (#25 of 25) Keith Rowland PERSONAL STATEMENT FROM AMARGI HILLIER May 21st, 1998 - Nazlet-el-Samman, Egypt Yesterday I was forwarded the statement released by John Anthony West and Graham Hancock (attached below) as it appeared on the sci.archaeology usenet group and various mailing lists. It also appeared on the Art Bell website. Like many of you, I was intrigued by the line up for the 'debate' on this Alaska Cruise. It was interesting to see who was to attend and who was not invited. This says much in itself. Like a tired tourist trying to find a public bathroom on the Giza Plateau, where there are none - something is not right in this picture. I am quite surprised that instead of asking Larry Hunter or myself to speak about these issues as well, that only Dr. Zahi Hawass is asked about this suspension. Of course, Hawass needs to be questioned and he has a right to answer. Our news flash stated on April 12, 1998 this was a "secret" document ordering the suspension of Dr. Hawass. Also, we stated that Hawass was not complying to the order. To me, and I am only speaking for myself, this suggests something hidden is going on. Thus, why would Dr. Hawass admit to it and why would not the investigators be brought to question too? The only scenario I can sum this up in is this: Police to thief: "Did you steal the money?" Thief: "No." Police: "Oh... OK... you can go then." We had stated quite clearly on our news flash that Dr. Zahi Hawass did not want you to know about this suspension order made by the high government official. Upon being asked about this, which is a very serious matter indeed, Hawass reveals on the cruise that this suspension was not true. Now do we leave it as that or do we bring in the investigators and question them as well on what they know? John Anthony West and Graham Hancock are fine and skilled authors. Of all their material I have read, although not necessarily agreed with everything presented, they have proven to me they are able to research, document and stylize their findings into an easy-to-understand format. Their attention to the details of their research is clearly seen within the pages of their books - where we explore high ancient sciences and missing clues to the secrets of ancient Egypt. What doesn't fit, considering the skills of these authors, is an apparent lack of attention to a simple detail in a six paragraph news flash. Was it too difficult to read? The paragraphs are not long and quite easy to read. Surely they have dictionaries at hand if they cannot understand anything. Quoting from their statement, "The posting had been written by Larry Hunter and Amargi Hillier and asserted falsely that Dr. Zahi Hawass had been fired from his post by the Egyptian government." Nowhere in our news flash did we ever say that Dr. Zahi Hawass was "fired". "Suspension" and "fired" are two different things. Yet a simple detail seemly confused by two well published and successful authors. If this is aspect is confusing, they should visit any local high school and a student there will be able to tell them the difference between 'suspended' and 'fired'. I wonder if Mr. West and Mr. Hancock even read the news flash itself. Or why would them make a public statement without reading our news flash first? Perhaps they just made a statement based on the question Art Bell posed to the debate. If this was the case, why didn't Art Bell - who is an experienced interviewer - read the news flash word-for-word to the people of the debate? Red flag. While focusing on details, our news flash never stated Dr. Zahi Hawass was actually suspended. This is an assumed conclusion by the reader. We were only reporting what was told to us by this high government official regarding a document that orders the suspension and that Zahi Hawass was not complying with the orders. Remember folks, this is an investigation. We are presenting pieces of a puzzle as they come to us. Whether these pieces change or not, time will tell as we dive deeper into this investigation. With what we are finding out about Dr. Zahi Hawass, God forbid any of these hidden events are true. I pray that it is not, for humanity and history is suffering a great loss. West's and Hancock's statement also mentions that Boris Said is a friend of Hunter's. "We are aware that this posting is one of many by Mr. Hunter and his friend Boris Said which have misrepresented the truth concerning Dr. Hawass and indeed slandered him." Although you cannot know this, I am telling you now - Boris Said is not a friend of Larry Hunter. Nor does their research connect up other than the fact it relates to the Giza Plateau. As we continue through this statement released by Mr. West and Mr. Hancock, I feel like I am road heading towards a construction site. Lots of red flags. There is a paragraph that begins with the explanation of the differences and misperceptions previously felt between West, Hancock and Hawass. Perhaps thinking this qualifies them to "set the record straight", they try to do just that on an issue that does not involve them, but rather involves Hawass, Hunter, myself and our government informant. What does reconciling differences with Hawass have to do with what we have found out? Also, West and Hancock set the record straight by saying our statements were false. Remember, we reported only what was told to us, and our post was the truth of what was reported to us. We should not be held accountable for the conclusions drawn by readers from based on the information we are reporting. Their paragraph ends with the issue of evidence. If we were trying to prove a case, then yes we would need evidence. But as stated above, we are only reporting what our investigation has uncovered. Evidence to prove or disprove this suspension order will come in time, and I hope it does. As a viewer one of the largest websites in the world on the subject of Egypt mysteries, would you prefer that I report our findings to you as they happen or after the fact, perhaps months or years later? I welcome your thoughts. I am communicating with people in the village of Nazlet-el-Samman who have been questioned by the police about myself. Why are they being told not to talk to me about the things they know? Tomorrow I will be meeting with a member of the Egyptian press who has new, rather startling, information about this suspension order. These findings will appear shortly on the news flash page. Yes, we are getting closer to evidence, but as a service to you... I feel you deserve to follow the investigation as it happens. Just as we reported as another news flash of what was said during a phone call with Ahmed Fayed, a close friend of Dr. Hawass, we will continue to post new news for you. Ahmed Fayed also confirmed the suspension order but worded it in a different way... he called it a "promotion" to sound and light. How you consider being director the plateau to being promoted to sound and lights show is beyond me. Details of this phone call are on our news flash page. By the way, if you haven't read our news flash, as many of you haven't since you were forwarded West's and Hancock's statement via e-mail or usenet - then you can read our news flash in full here: http://www.amargiland.com/hall-of-records/newsflash/ Art Bell did make a call to the office of the person whom told originally told us about the suspension order. Some of you are aware of this. What you don't know is that Art Bell thought he was talking with the person we spoke with, when if fact he was talking with another person in the office. Art Bell, perhaps still unknown to this fact, experienced what many foreigners experience when communicating with other from a foreign country... the fact that English is not the native tongue here in Egypt. Thus dialogue can result in mixed messages if one speaker is less fluent in the language used for the dialogue. I am well aware of this from living in Egypt since last August '97. Not everybody speaks English well. Those who don't speak English well are being asked to understand what is being said in English and are asked then to answer back in English. A responsibility that goes unnoticed by most not experienced with people here. Art Bell, upon reading the news flash, called Larry Hunter on the telephone. They talked and Hunter gave Bell the phone number of the high government person who we had met with that told us the news of the letter ordering the suspension. Art Bell called Egypt to this government official's office. Due to this language problem, Bell was speaking with somebody else in the office but thought it was our government person. This person whom Bell spoke with said he knew nothing about a suspension. Following this phone call, Bell contacted Hunter and told Hunter what he was told. Hunter discovered soon after, upon a phone call to the same office, that Bell never in fact talked to the government official we met with. Hunter e-mailed Art Bell about the error but Bell never followed up. Personally, I am surprised that Art Bell has not brought Larry Hunter on air to question Hunter about these issues. We may hear the people tell reports of a car falling from the sky, to a "widget" man who claims to have a time travel device, to a woman who says she has sex with reptilian aliens. Why Bell has not put Hunter under the probing spotlight on air, regarding such a serious issue, is a mystery to me. Red flags are going up everywhere on this journey. Many people have asked us why we have not revealed our source of this information. The high government official who told about the suspension order asked us not to... it is that simple. The government in Egypt works differently then elsewhere. Here you may be jailed or fired if you speak the wrong thing. This government official risked much to tell us what he knows and we promised to protect him. But due to the nature of what we are investigating, no doubt in time, the truth will be revealed completely. Equating our investigation with child pornography is very irresponsible and is in very poor taste. Here is what they wrote: "But in our considered opinion Larry Hunter's postings are the Egyptological equivalent of child pornography and are a great disservice to all of us who genuinely seek to unravel the mysteries of Egypt." I am disturbed that two successful authors would even make a relation of our reporting about Hawass to that of such an act of violence. This statement of theirs really speaks for itself as a reflection of whatever they are trying to gain by making such a statement. Child pornography is a very serious matter that results in many victims, both the family and the child themselves. Child pornography should not be used as an example in a clearly personal attack against our investigation and our postings online. I would expect that victims of this crime could easily explain to West and Hancock of the non-relation between an investigation about an Egyptologists vs. the violence of child pornography. God forbid any that readers who read West's and Hancock's statement are not victims themselves. Talk about adding insult to injury. Follow this absurd statement, John Anthony West and Graham Hancock suggest that we are a "disservice" to all of you who genuinely seek to unravel the mysteries of Egypt. If you, as a viewer, feel this way... then I am sorry. Simply never come back to my website as a solution. But if you do not feel this way, and you feel we are providing a very important service, then perhaps contact West and Hancock and tell them not to speak for you. John Anthony West can be reached at the following e-mail: jawsphinx@aol.com Within their statement, Mr. West and Mr. Hancock offer us a challenge to find evidence of the corruption with Hawass. Challenge accepted, and herein you will find part one of our investigation into the secret life of Dr. Zahi Hawass. As the investigation continues, the evidence will start forming right before your eyes. http://www.amargiland.com/hall-of-osiris/ We leave it up to you, the worldwide public, to discern the truth from fallacy. You - not Art Bell, John Anthony West or Graham Hancock - will determine who is right and who is wrong. That decision cannot be made my myself, Hunter or people who wrote the statement trying to decide these things for you. You have your own mind and need to hear all the sides before coming to these types of conclusions. I am quite surprised that West and Hancock did not talk to us to find out our end of the story. Really folks, there are so many holes in their ship - it is sinking like the Titanic. And everybody on board is going down too. The only conclusion we can draw is that John Anthony West and Graham Hancock don't like the message being reported upon by us. So what they want to do is kill the messenger through the character assassination of comparing us to child pornographers. May God bless those who seek the truth, and burn those who choose to keep it from the world. God is taking charge now and I warn everybody involved in this scenario to think clearly and
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 23 Nua Blather: Rocks From Irish Skies From: Dave Walsh <dave@nua.ie> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 17:19:25 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 09:13:57 -0400 Subject: Nua Blather: Rocks From Irish Skies ******************************************************************* NUA BLATHER NUA BLATHER NUA BLATHER Weekly free email of Dogma Destruction, Forteana and High Weirdness By Daev Walsh Email: blather@nua.ie Web: http://www.nua.ie/blather/ ******************************************************************* May 22 1998 Published By: Nua Limited Vol 2. No. 2 ******************************************************************* ROCKS FROM IRISH SKIES Not one, but *two* alleged Irish meteorite sites have come to the attention of Blather this week. Firstly, UFO Roundup, via the UK UFO Network (who are now presumably claiming responsibility over rocks that fall from the sky), reported on a 'mysterious crater' discovered on farmland near Belleek, Co. Fermanagh, in January 1998. Armagh Planetarium (http://armagh-planetarium.co.uk/) apparently investigated, where they are said to have found a 'circular crater six feet in diameter filled with water', along with a 'badly-damaged milk churn'. The report went on to state how 'investigators found a 1.5 millimetre bead of glass' which was possibly from the meteorite. Blather was a little suspicious about such news -- but did a little back-tracking, and discovered an Irish Times report on the incident. It was from the 'In the North' section of the Thursday, January 29th, 1998 issue, and stated how, based on investigations by Planetarium director Tom Mason and his team, the "mysterious and violent bang heard in the Fermanagh village of Belleek on December 13th last" was "almost certainly a meteorite". However, whereas the UK UFO Network report stated that the crater was 6ft in diameter (1.83m), the Irish Times said that it was merely 3ft (0.92m). Anyway, the crater was found 10 (3m) feet from the Enniskillen-Ballyshannon road, half a mile from Belleek. Based on extensive interviews with "earwitnesses", known meteorite activity in the atmosphere, aerial hissing sounds, the sound of the 'bang' -- a dull thud, and the fact that a meteorite had landed in Greenland two days previously (See Blather: Baaaaah-Humbug! http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/issue1no33.html), pointed towards an, dare I say it, extraterrestrial explanation. The Irish Times said that the area had been sealed off by security forces in early January, on discovery of the crater, but doesn't mention any forensic details. One can only assume that while they did link it to a "massive bang on December 13th at 5 am", they seemed content that it was not a bomb. The Irish Times January 29th 1998 (http://www.irish-times.com/irish-times/paper/1998/0129/hom38.html) The Irish Times struck again on May 21th, 1998, to tell us that about 'Mystery sea object found to be a rock'. On Tuesday 19th May, the Naval service were put on a alert when a large object became snagged in the nets of the trawler *Silvie Liddy* from Dunmore East, Co. Waterford. It was forced to proceed to shore at only three knots, with the object below at a depth of 35 metres (115ft). The trawler rendezvoused with the patrol vessel LE Emer off Hook Head, Wexford (http://ipl.lub.lu.se/exhibit/light/IRE/HookHead.html), and a half mile exclusion zone was placed around the vessels, although the skipper (Denis Harding) and crew of the trawler felt that at 5 tonnes the object was far too heavy to be a mine. Naval divers used lifting bags raised it to 15 metres, freed it from the trawl, and dropped it to a nearby rock shelf. It has been speculated that the 5-tonne 1.5 cubic metre rock is a meteorite, although no source has been quoted in that regard -- Blather would be delighted to hear the comments of Dunsink Observatory (http://www.dunsink.dias.ie) or Astronomy Ireland (http://ireland.iol.ie/~ai/). The Irish Times May 21th 1998 (http://www.irish-times.com/irish-times/paper/1998/0521/hom7.html) JESUS ON THE DASHBOARD, VIRGIN MARY IN MY FRIDGE It would seem to be the weather for religious 'movements'. The forever touring Virgin Mary has made an appearance on a glass freezer door (behind which lurk sausages, burritos and plantains) in a Jersey City (New Jersey) *La Conga* supermarket, according to Reuters. The 'Virg' showed up sometime on Thursday May 14th, stayed all weekend, but faded away by Monday 18th. This didn't stop people from the predominately Hispanic and Catholic community from arriving to leave candles, handwritten messages and flowers. To, I hope, no-ones's surprise, representatives of the local Roman Catholic Archdiocese in Newark were rather philosophical, even non-committal: "It is not impossible that some condensation got inside those two thermal panes and caused the image. I am led to believe that it is certainly not an apparition," said a spokesman, Michael Hurley. "But could I swear that it wasn"t? No." Infobeat May 18th 1998 http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=2554214615-99e The Boston Daily Globe May 19th http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe/globehtml/139/Virgin_Mary_image_reported_in _marke.htm AYE SHIRLEY Even more surreal were reports from Los Angeles on May 8th, via PRNewswire, regarding a weeping photograph of actress Shirley MacLaine (http://www.celebsite.com/people/shirleymaclaine/index.html). She gave the autographed photo to Jamaican Futurist Dr. Ernesto Montgomery, and it's now been seen shedding tears, along with a painting of the Angel of Peace at the Los Angeles HQ of the Beta Israel Temple/Black Jewish Synagogue. Spiritual Leader of the Temple, Montgomery, was apparently hit upon by some weird vibes whilst with Ms. MacLaine, in her private jet at an altitude of 30,000 ft, and told her that she's to be a 'catalyst in bringing peace to mankind throughout the world' etc. Archbishop Roger Mahoney of the local Archdiocese, was quoted as saying that "The phenomenon is unexplainable." Anyway, it's free admission to see the picture at 1101 Crenshaw Blvd., if you happen to live in Los Angeles, and are halfway bothered. . . NO MORE MASS In Blather: Baaaaah-Humbug! (http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/issue1no33.html), we discussed the goings-on in The House of Prayer on Achill Island, Co. Mayo, Ireland, where alleged stigmatic Mrs. Christina Gallagher and friends have been claiming minor miracles, such as healings. Back before Christmas, an inquiry set up by the Archbishop of Tuam, Dr Michael Neary, concluded there was no evidence of "supernatural phenomena of whatever kind" taking place at The House of Prayer. (http://www.irish-times.com/irish-times/paper/1997/1217/hom30.html) The Connaught Telegraph tells that there is now a 'Sunday Mass "ban" at House of Prayer', enforced by the local diocese, or to be precise, Archbishop Neary. No confessions are sermons are being allowed, although the diocese paradoxically says that 'There was no question of all Masses being forbidden at the Centre'. Mrs. Gallagher and Co. have expressed "deep hurt and disappointment" and feel that their work is being "forced underground". One tends to wonder why they want to continue under -- or even respond to -- the influence of the Catholic Church. The Connaught Telegraph May 6th 1998 http://www.mayo-ireland.ie/ConnTel/CT9805/CT980513/Mass.htm Dave (daev) Walsh May 22th 1998 Feedback and comments to <blather@nua.ie> Have your say: http://www.nua.ie/blather/blabber ******************************************************************* NUA INTERNET SURVEYS A weekly newsletter, Internet Surveys is a free digest of the most interesting surveys containing data relating to the Internet. It is available by sending an email to <surveys-request@lists.best.com> with the word "subscribe" in the body of the message. NUA WHAT'S NEW A monthly newsletter, What's New is a free monthly newsletter highlighting the new additions, happenings and changes at Nua. It is available by sending an email to <whatsnew-requestlists.best.com> with the word "subscribe" in the body of the message. NUA NEW THINKING New Thinking is a free, weekly, 500-word email column, whose objective is to contribute to a practical philosophy for The Digital Age. 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For further information on how Nua can help your organisation get the best out of the Internet, contact our marketing director, Mary Gorman <mary@nua.ie> or our representative in New York, Niall Swan <nswan@nua.ie> Mary Gorman: mailto:mary@nua.ie Niall Swan: mailto:nswan@nua.ie ******************************************************************* NUA LIMITED Nua, a vibrant, innovative, Irish company whose focus is in helping progressive organisations adapt to the new environment created by the Internet. We have the management/marketing, design and technical skills to truly understand your unique situation, and to translate that understanding into a successful Internet presence for you. Nua has received an array of awards since its genesis in 1996. Among those are the coveted "Best Overall World Wide Web Business Achievement" the top prize for website development in Europe. http://www.nua.ie/about/review.html SUBSCRIBING TO BLATHER Send an email to: <blather-request@lists.best.com> with the word subscribe in the body of the message. An automatic acknowledgement should be returned to you by e-mail within a few minutes. UNSUBSCRIBING Send an email to <blather-request@lists.best.com> with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. TECHNICAL PROBLEMS If you are having any technical problems, please email the Nua Webmaster at: <web@nua.ie>. ******************************************************************* ____________________________________________________________________ NUA : Internet Consultancy & Developer http://www.nua.ie/ Dave Walsh <daev@nua.ie> Tel: +353-1-676-8996 Fax: +353-1-661-3932 Read Blather: http://www.nua.ie/blather - weekly weirdness by email
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 23 Billy Meier/FIGU on Kal K. Korf From: FIGU Switzerland <info@figu.ch> [Christian Frehner] Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 22:07:41 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 10:08:57 -0400 Subject: Billy Meier/FIGU on Kal K. Korf Dear Mr. Bruce-Knapp, Would you please include this message in the UFO UpDates. Thank you. Christian Frehner of FIGU Switzerland <info@figu.ch> *************************************************************** Kal K. Korff's schemes against Billy Meier and FIGU Switzerland *************************************************************** Many people have asked about FIGU's opinion of Kal K. Korff and his book Spaceships of the Pleiades (1995, Prometheus Books). Well, frankly, we are of the opinion that Kal K. Korff is a dirty and cowardly liar. He has written a book that is in line with his cunning and perfidious character. By using extra big types, Kal K. Korff was able to 'stretch' his book up to 439 pages. Acknowledgements alone cover more than 10 pages. It seems that a thick book shall give an impression of importance and respectability. Essentially, Korff's book is about his trip to Switzerland. Under the assumed name of STEVE THOMAS, and in disguise, he visited the Semjase-Silver-Star-Center, Schmidrueti, in Summer 1991. He was accompanied by Tina Layton. Korff had opportunity to speak to FIGU members on two days for some hours. He didn't speak a word with Billy Meier. Since nearly all pages of Korff's book contain lies and distortions it is impossible to list them all. It would need the space of another book. A few excerpts from Korff's book shall demonstrate his deceitful and lying intentions to manipulate and misuse the readers for his bad aims. Some of Korff's claims and distortions are so absurd that a reasonable person can but laugh. Korff's lie (page 38): "... During one of these alleged time-travel adventures in the past, he [Billy Meier] met with Jesus Christ! ... but he is Jesus Christ= reincarnated!" The truth: Never, not verbally or in writing, did Billy Meier ever claim having met Jesus Christ, or to be his reincarnation. Billy Meier vehemently dissociates himself from such impertinent claims and rumors by Korff and others. Korff's lie (page 64): "Although we had made it only a few hundred feet onto the property, it was already obvious that Meier was anything but "poor," contrary to what his proponents would have everyone believe. ... After walking about ten minutes, Tina and I came across a large brown wooden building with an angled roof off to our left. As we would later discover, this was a "guest house" ..." The truth: The Semjase-Silver-Star-Center isn't owned by Billy Meier. All FIGU members are joint owners! Besides, it is only a 3-minute walk from the Restaurant Freihof to the Center's first house. And: we don't have any "guest house". Korff's lie (pages 67-69): "... From where I stood, at the railing which prevented me from straying off the main gravel roadway, I could see down at the bottom of the hillside what were the faint remnants of three "UFO landing rings" that had been there since at least June 1980. ... Even though the landing tracks were eleven years old by the time of my visit and were barely visible to the naked eye, ... Even though my video camera has a 10x zoom lens, the landing-tracks proved to be too far away to observe any meaningful details from the location where I was standing. ... incredibly Gary Kinder [author of LIGHT YEARS] says he never saw any landing-tracks during the entire five weeks he spent living at Meier's place! Instead, Kinder claims he only "talked to several people who had seen them and who had photographed them while still fresh. It is doubtful that Gary Kinder's claim is true, since the three UFO landing-tracks on Billy Meier's property are directly behind his house and down the hill in his own back yard! Not only are they easily visible from numerous locations throughout the property, but are in fact impossible to miss most of the time when walking back and forth between the guest house and Billy meier's residence. ..." The truth: Fig. 7 on page 65 'clearly' shows 1) that the meadow where Menara landed her beamship on June 15, 1980, lies hidden behind bushes and trees; 2) the exact landing place lies hidden behind a knoll on the hillside and would even be invisible to the naked eye, if there were no trees to obstruct the view from the house; 3) The landing tracks - circles of grass pressed counterclockwise to the ground - "vanished" as soon as the meadow was cut and the cows were grazing. Conclusion: Either Korff had hallucinations, or he is a damned liar! Concerning Korff's 'drawing' of the "Meier's compound" (Fig. 10 on page 70): All distances and proportions are incorrect (the landing tracks are much farther away from the house than may be seen on Korff's drawing!). Is Korff really not capable of producing a correct drawing? Or does he deliberately create a false picture in order to lead the readers onto a wrong path?! Korff, the "meticulous" investigator (page 73): "... Elisabeth Gruber, the wife of Guido Moosbrugger, ..." The truth: Elisabeth Gruber is married to a Mr. Gruber. Elisabeth Moosbrugger is Guido Mossbrugger's wife. Korff's fantastic ideas (page 77): "... such as the "fact" that Billy Meier's full, true name is purportedly "Eduard Albert Meier-Zafiriou." However, a subsequent check of the local Canton Police for Meier's region in the town of Hinwil revealed that there is no record of Billy Meier's "true" name containing the word "Zafiriou" in it. ..." In a footnote Korff writes: "The name "Zafiriou" has been added by Meier in recent years as his "mission" has taken on more religious overtones. Zafiriou is supposed to be Meier's name as a prophet, reincarnated from a past life." The truth: In Switzerland it is custom that a husband adds the name of his wife to his own. The maiden name of Billy Meier's wife was - in Greece - Kalliope Zafiriou. =96 Simple, isn't it?! Korff (pages 78 ff): Falsifications and distortions concerning the Talmud Jmmanuel. The truth: Prof. James W. Deardorff answers: A refutation of false claims and distortions by Korff http://www.figu.ch/us/critics/pro/deardorff/deardorff.htm Korff's claim (page 95): "... for among the Meier faithful we encountered (as well as in the pro-Meier literature), we are told repeatedly that Billy Meier is a simple farmer who is illiterate and has only sixth-grad education. ..." The truth: Billy Meier went to school for 8 years, just like most of the other children in Switzerland at that time. Yes, he lives now on a farm, but he is no farmer. His chief occupation is writing books: He preserves the vast spiritual knowledge that he himself gathered or has received to the benefit of the present and future generations. To call Billy Meier an "illiterate" person (read: he has a limited intelligence) was the work/invention of Lee and Brit Elders. For anyone who understands German and wishes to test Billy's illiteracy it is advisable to read one of Billy's fairy tales, e.g. Die Fr=FChlingsprinzessin. Korff's lies (pages 98/99): Korff planned to take soil samples from "UFO landing tracks" on the Center's ground and writes in his book: "... The perimeter of the Meier compound turned out to be fairly fortified; weaving my way through its defenses would prove to be a challenge. There was a high risk of being seen, due to the location of the tracks. For this reason, I decided to return to the compound at night, dressed in U.S. Army camouflage clothing so that I would minimize my visibility. As Tina and I drove back up the mountain past the Meier property, we parked our car just on the other side of the hill and walked very carefully back down toward the upper parts of the compound. For safety reasons, I made sure that Tina stayed behind, close enough to our car so that she could drive away in the event I did not return or was caught. When I approached one of the electric fences, I calmly slid underneath it, making sure that I did not touch any of its wires. After clearing the fence, I slipped on down the hill and around to where I saw the remains of one of the landing-tracks. Removing some plastic bottles from my pouch, I obtained both control and specimen soil samples. Now that I had my evidence, it was time to get out of there quickly before I got caught. With the existence of dogs at Meier's place, a weapons depot for use by his people when the end of civilization nears, security personnel, and the fact that Meier himself often carries a pistol, I am lucky I was not detected. ... I then ran to our car and Tina and I drove back to the ..." The truth: Everyone who is familiar with the Center grounds will surely laugh if he or she reads Korff's fantastic story. 1. The only electric and removable fence (with only one wire) was installed around the pasture area where the cows were grazing. There is no road or path in the Center that is barred by a door or a gate, and there is even a public path (a "Wanderweg") that leads through our land and near the house. 2. According to Korff's descripition of his "nocturnal visit" he wasn't at the actual "landing site". 3. Questions: What soil samples did Korff obtain and take with him to America, since he a) wasn't at the correct location and b) wasn't able find even a single blade of grass left from the landing tracks (from 11 years earlier)?! If we FIGU members can't find non-existing landing tracks in broad daylight, how will Korff succeed at night? 4. For more than ten years we don't have a dog anymore. 5. And the "weapons depot"? - OK, we have a depot of pitchforks; and if some group member would claim that we own an atomic bomb and store it in the cellar doubtlessly some idiots would believe this. =96 In Switzerland, most males have to serve in the Army. They get a gun or a pistol and are allowed to take it at home. After you quit the Army you may keep the gun as a present.- Yes, we have some guns and pistols, all legally registered by the authorities. (By the way: There have been 13 assassination attempts on Billy Meier within the past 21 years!) 6. Imagine: On a peaceful summer night, Korff is running to his car, sweating, in his U.S. Army camouflage clothing. Korff's lie (page 179, Fig. 47 and 48) : He claims "that the background scenery has changed entirely, and that the cloud formations do not resemble those in his first five pictures!" The truth: If Korff would have troubled himself to take a closer look at the two pictures he would have noticed that Billy Meier, after shooting the first photo, made some steps to the left to take the next one He would have noticed that the distant snowfield just at the right border of the fir tree is exactly identical with that 1.5 cm to the left of the same fir tree in the second photo! And if he would have looked even closer he would have noticed that it's the same cloud formation in both photos, viewed from a different angle since Billy Meier had walked some steps to the left. Korffs claim (page 198, Fig. 66): "My edge enhancement showing a supportive device or what appears to be a suspension line above the "UFO" as it exists in Meier's photo number 199."= Question: Why does the "suspension line" curve upward, if a model should be attached to it?! Korff's claims (pages 201 to 207): "Meier's Hasenb=F6l-Langenberg "UFO" photos show a small object suspended close to the camera, in front of the large tree. The model ..." The truth: Prof. James W. Deardorff answers: A refutation of false claims and distortions by Korff http://www.figu.ch/us/critics/pro/deardorff/deardorff.htm *The whole series of the 34 Hasenb=F6l-Langenberg photos is available as a beautiful poster from FIGU.* Korff indulges in fantasies (pages 261 to 264): "Billy Meier says that while he was "in outer space for five days" he was fortunate enough to photograph one of God's eyes! When mentioning Meier's claim of having "photographed" God's eye in my 1981 book, the reaction by Meier's supporters (especially Wendelle Stevens) was most peculiar. They denied not only that Meier had ever said such a thing, they also ignored the fact that I had received copies of these actual photos from Colman VonKeviczky, who had received them from Hans Jacob." The truth: On his 5-day journey through the universe Billy Meier had photographed - among other objects - the Ring Nebula in the constellation of Lyra. The peculiar thing about this ring nebula is that its man-made. A self-appointed "god", in his megalomania, destroyed a solar system - as a symbol of his power. That's the reason why this nebula is called JHWHMATA (=3D the eye of god) by the Pleiadians/Plejarans. If Korff would have= studied the Meier literature as thoroughly as he is boasting on page 137 of his book, he would have read the facts in the Contact Notes. As evidence of the "high intelligence" and "serious doggedness" of certain Meier enemies we will present a last example to the readers: Guido Moosbrugger, in his book "... und sie fliegen doch!", refers to VonKeviczky (director of ICUFON USA) and Korff on page 267/268 and quotes: "... when asked why he hadn't photographed both of God's eyes, amazingly he (Billy Meier) answered that this had not been possible since his (God's) other eye had winked toward his Pleiadian companion Semjase." Commentary by Walter H. Andrus, Jr., International Director, Mutual UFO Network, Inc. (MUFON) on the back cover of Korff's book: "Kal Korff must be congratulated for his determination and persistence in seeking the truth.= ..." Well, I'd say this seeking will last quite a long time! Dear readers, now it's up to you whether - and where - you want to search for the truth! Christian Frehner <info@figu.ch> FIGU Switzerland http://www.figu.ch P.S. - Good reading: Gary Kinder's Light Years. or: An Open Letter to the UFO Community by Gary Kinder: http://www.figu.ch/us/critics/pro/kinder/kinder.htm ******************************************************** http://www.figu.ch/us/critics/critics.htm http://www.figu.ch/us/critics/contra/contra.htm http://www.figu.ch/us/critics/contra/korff/korff.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 23 Re: Strieber on CSPAN? From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 19:47:38 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 11:06:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia] > Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:05:11 EDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > >Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:53:17 +0100 > >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > >I always come back to the fact that Strieber did not restrict his > >experiences to himself but his family - in particular his son - > >as well. > >When I wonder at Strieber's motives for writing Communion, > >whether for truth or for avarice, I think of his mention of his > >son. How far do you have to go to make a buck. My gut feeling is > >that Strieber is a better man than that. > What does that have to do with if his experiences are real or > not? If his his son was affected by the experiences, what is so > bad about writing about it? Supposedly he was writing a truthful > book that he hoped would help others going through the same > thing. All details should have been included. Are we now judging > what a "better man" would have done? What are you basing this on? > Even if this is judged to be going over the line, does this mean > his experiences aren't real? I am suggesting Joe that the fact that the man included his son in his experience lends some credibility to the experience itself, unless he was a total jerk. Think about it. If you were to include your kid in a book about what has to be one of the most mind shattering experiences a person can go through, knowing what your son or daughter might go through in his own peer group [read school at that age] don't you think that it would have to be for the best of all possible motives.....not just to make some quick $$$$$. That's the only way I would involve one of my kids, for the ebst possible motives, not $$$$. Go back and read what I said again Joe. I'm not dumping on Streiber but giving him the benefit of the doubt. > As far as Strieber making all this stuff up. Well, if you heard > the surgeon, who tried to take out Whit's alleged implant in his > ear, you would realize that something has happened to him. What > that something is, nobody knows yet. When the doctor tried to > remove the "implant" in his ear, the damn thing moved away from > the scalpel. The surgeon had never seen anything like that. > The object seemed to be set in place and before the operation. > After the operation, (He didn't get it out) the object moved back > to it's original position. This guy was on Art Bell a couple on > Sundays ago. Like I said in the earlier post, read Confirmation > and then comment on Strieber. > It's so easy to question other people's motives or veracity of > claims. Everybody should look in the mirror. I started with "Communion" and worked my way forward. Before "Communion" I had no knowledge of abduction so I had no frame of reference. I had no reason not to believe Streiber's story, and up until now I still haven't seen any evidence to support evidence that he wrote a story to make a buck. In '85-'87, there was no preceived market for the story anyway. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 23 Crazy Week 2 From: Masinaigan <Masinaigan@aol.com> [Joseph Trainor] Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 20:49:49 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 11:08:55 -0400 Subject: Crazy Week 2 Dear List Members: USA Today for May 22, 1998 had more on satellite Galaxy IV going haywire. It happened a few minutes past 6 p.m. CDT, and the satellite was over the north-central USA when they lost contact. Here's what we have for UFO activity in that region on that date: (1) Bloomington, Indiana - 4 UFOs heading north (2) Howell, Michigan - 1 UFO at very high altitude (3) Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania - 1 hovering UFO If anyone comes across any other sightings for May 19, 1998, please post them on Errol's list. Thanks!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 23 Re: University Of Colorado Joins NASA's From: wanderer@post8.tele.dk [Stig Agermose] Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 04:48:37 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 11:10:48 -0400 Subject: Re: University Of Colorado Joins NASA's My usual mailserver is down again, so I'm using another one. Stig >From Denver Post Online. URL: http://www.denverpost.com:80/news/news0521h.htm ******* CU joins search for life in universe By Ann Schrader Denver Post Medical/Science Writer May 21 - NASA research on whether we're alone in the universe will be coordinated through a "virtual" institute that includes the University of Colorado at Boulder as one of 11 initial members. CU and the other participating institutions were selected from 53 applicants. The new institute will be "virtual" in that researchers will stay at their home institutions and communicate through Internet 2, a faster Internet that will link universities. For its involvement in the multidisciplinary research, education and outreach project, CU-Boulder will receive a five-year, $3 million NASA grant. An additional $1 million will be contributed by CU through matching funds, and two CU departments will shift their focus by recruiting faculty who fit into the mission of searching for life in the universe. "It's an incredible opportunity. I'm really excited," said Bruce Jakosky, an astrophysicist who will direct CU's new Center for Astrobiology. "It will bring a lot of visibility to the university." Jakosky said Wednesday that the search for life in the universe "is central to planetary science and science as a whole. It's why we do science and what does science mean. To me, it's the exploration." NASA, in part through the interest of administrator Daniel Goldin, has made the search for extraterrestrial life a major mission. The work will include topics such as the formation of organic compounds important to the origins of life, how Earth and life have influenced each other over time, organisms that adapt to extreme environments, characteristics of possibly "inhabited" planets and criteria for what constitutes extraterrestrial life. Other institutions involved in the project include Harvard University, UCLA, Carnegie Institute and Scripps Research Institute. Several NASA centers also will participate. CU's Center for Astrobiology, to be headquartered at the Laboratory for Atmospheric and Space Physics, will bring together about 30 people on and off campus, and will involve a half-dozen CU departments, such as geologic sciences and environmental, population and organismic biology. "These are people working in related areas," Jakosky said, but they usually don't have much in common. In this case, "they're interested in the same problems." Only six to eight people will have their research funded by the grant, "but we've dragged in others through the intellectual excitement of the program," he said. For example, faculty from the religious studies and philosophy departments will have roles. Jakosky said the issue of life elsewhere has caught the attention of the world, as evidenced by "that brouhaha a few years ago over the Martian meteorite." He will teach a new extraterrestrial life course in the fall, one of the nation's first. The class was filled to its 75-student capacity as soon as it opened for registration.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 23 Re: Strieber on CSPAN? From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 09:30:22 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 11:13:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 06:13:38 -0700 > From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:53:17 +0100 > > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > > From: buck@cchat.com [Bill Weber] > > > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:04:04 -0400 > > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > > > > Agreed, but very difficult to do. It is hard to imagine the > > > impact that man has had on lives, not to mention marketing. > > > Here's a silly question. Does someone on the list actually KNOW > > > something about this and can prove it? > > > He's a wonderful writer. If true and Communion was a marketing > > > idea, I would have to think of Strieber with the same mixture of > > > disgust and admiration I feel for the folks who periodically rob > > > Brink's trucks. > > I always come back to the fact that Strieber did not restrict his > > experiences to himself but his family - in particular his son - > > as well. > > When I wonder at Strieber's motives for writing Communion, > > whether for truth or for avarice, I think of his mention of his > > son. How far do you have to go to make a buck. My gut feeling is > > that Strieber is a better man than that. > > There's a problem in this field as we all know. If you write > > about it it can't be a personal thing. If you see one, then you > > have no credibility as an investigator. There's so much horseshit > > in this field it makes it hard to get down and boogie. > Before this trashfest goes any further, let me add one story in > support of the authenticity of Strieber's accounts. That's an unfortunate choice of words Skye. Where do you see trashing in the last few paragraphs. If anything, I'm lending him some support while having a few reservations. I've got close relatives and friends that are going through this as well so I'm not likely to trash anyone with the same claims, including Streiber. There's another message I put on the list earlier that you might want to read. >I saw him > speak in Los Angeles back in 1987-88 and he told the story about > a night when he was battling with himself, trying to get up the > courage to go down into the woods where he knew "they" were. > As many experiencers know, it is the small atypical experiences, > strange little details that are not in the literature, that you > question yourself about because they are so strange, that you > inevitably discover are shared by at least a handful of others. > I remember C.D.B. Bryan commenting on this in his CE4 book, > telling a case where one of the ETs asked to try on a woman's > highheels. It's these tiny details that investigators look for in every area of "ufology". Like the police during investigations in serial killings for instance or a series of bank robberies, they hold back details that will enable them to weed out the copycat crimes. Those people who hoax a sighting or experience usually fall into the trap of reporting the classic type of reports but with more conviction. Bigger craft, more lights, longer times but no "characterization". They don't have the little details that make them convincing. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 23 Re: Filer's Files #20 From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 09:52:58 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 11:16:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Filer's Files #20 > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Filer's Files #20 > Date: Fri, 22 May 98 10:30:09 PDT > Marchetti's article, which is essentially an exercise in space, > type, paper, and time waste, betrays his naivete on UFO matters. > For example, he says, "Of all the evidence that exists with > regard to UFOs, the single most impressive item (to my mind) is > the Jimmy Carter experience." As no serious ufologist disputes, > Carter saw Venus, not a UFO. Marchetti even gets the year (1969) > of the sighting wrong (he has it in 1973). > Jerry Clark Hi Jerry and List, Re your remark that no serious ufologist disputes that Carter saw Venus. I wonder about that. I remember writing his sighting off as well, but then some time afterward wondered if I might have been hasty in light of his education and naval experience [which for the life of me I can't recall, but remember at the time as being impressive]. Was Carter not a scientist of some sort, physicis perhaps. He was not only a peanut farmer. Do you have info regarding his education Jerry? Don
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 23 Re: White Dots/Discs, Daylight Sightings From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 10:11:09 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 11:19:23 -0400 Subject: Re: White Dots/Discs, Daylight Sightings > Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 13:01:51 -0500 > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: White Dots/Discs, Daylight Sightings > Hello All, > I have been seeing and videotaping small white 'dots/discs' > in the skies over New York for three years. I have had several > of these looked at by knowledgable people (including Jeff > Sanio) and the 'objects' (for want of a better term) remain > unidentified. > Their behavior ranges from hovering for extended periods > of time to sudden and irratic movements and flight paths. > Sometimes they dart off so fast it's hard to follow, or they > may slowly begin to fly off in another direction from a dead > standstill. > They 'jitter' from side to side (like a tiny pendulum > movement) when they are 'hovering.' They -are not- balloons, > or airplanes, or helicopters. I have contacted astronomers > that assure me that they cannot be stationary satellites > (some of my sightings/recordings show the objects at zenith. > Stationary satellite orbits would appear closer to the equator.) <Snip> > John Velez Hi John, These same astronomers should also have mentioned that stationary satellites are approx. 24,700 miles out in space in equatorial orbits and would be impossible to see with the naked eye. They could be seen with a telescope and from well up into the higher latitudes. They are in geocentric orbits and falling around the Earth at the same speed as the Earth turns thereby staying "stationary"in relation to a fixed point on the Earth's surface. Arthor Clarke proposed the idea years before they were an acuality and now gets royalties for it. LEO sats., on the other hand, are falling around the Earth at the rate of about 17,000 mph or once every 90 minutes, in order to stay in orbit but cannot stay stationary. The next time I come down the I-95 and pass NY, from NS I'll do it at night. I want to see the little devils. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 23 Re: Strieber on CSPAN? From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 09:39:04 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 11:15:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? >Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 18:10:57 +0200 >From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? >> From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia] >> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:05:11 EDT >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? >> >Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:53:17 +0100 >> >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >> >To: updates@globalserve.net >> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? <snip> >Guys, >Get real, wasn't he a not too good selling, horror/fiction writer >before? Tell me what, makes this man so special. "Why, the guys >story sound so real.." Far be it for me to defend Strieber, but this isn't fair. He was a bestseller writer before he moved into the UFO/abduction arena. A couple of his books, THE WOLFEN and THE HUNGER had been made into movies. He is a fine writer able to spin a wonderful story which does not mean that his abduction tale is fiction in and of itself. The point here, however, is merely to correct the statement that he was a not too good selling horror/fiction writer. He is a bestselling writer. KRandle
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 23 Billy Meier: Asket and Nera photos From: FIGU Switzerland <info@figu.ch> [Christian Frehner] Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 17:48:59 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 12:05:47 -0400 Subject: Billy Meier: Asket and Nera photos Dear Mr. Bruce-Knapp, Here's another text regarding Billy Meier's allegedly Asket and Nera photos. Would you please include this text on your List? Thank you. FIGU info@figu.ch ***************************************************************** AN EXTREMELY UNPLEASANT MATTER During my latest contact conversation with Ptaah, some extremely unpleasant facts came to light regarding the two Asket and Nera photographs which, until now, had been indexed in the FIGU photo albums and sold under this "Asket and Nera" caption. Unfortunately, during my conversation with Ptaah he revealed that the two women depicted on the photos are not Asket and Nera from the DAL Universe, but two American look-alikes, as Ptaah had stated in the 39th Contact from 1975. These photos are malicious hoaxes and were switched upon the order of and in collaboration with the "Men in Black." The related, specific explanations can be gleaned from excerpts of the latest contact report that follows below, which will serve to clarify the situation for all friends, members, acquaintances, and interested parties as to the connections and contemptible machinations of the "Men in Black" and their hired helpers. In addition, I would like to mention that the said three photographs with the numbers 109, 110, 111 will not be removed from our photo selection. (It is unfortunate that only two pictures are ever mentioned in the contact report, but #109 was simply not good enough for distribution.) Instead they will receive a new caption stating that the two young women in the photograph are American look-alikes of Asket and Nera who resemble the originals so much that it is practically impossible for anyone to tell them apart---except for the ladies themselves. Here then are the excerpts from the contact report dated May 14, 1998. Billy Meier 264th Contact Report Thursday, May 14, 1998 0:55 a.m. Ptaah: Do not hesitate to tell me what you have to say. Billy: OK, fine: Once again something is preoccupying me that I cannot understand. It is linked with conspiracies and defamations which, by and large, don't bother me but they do raise several questions. You are familiar with that schemer and defamer Korff and this Luc Buergin. Together they recently taped an interview with my dear ex-wife which they intend to disseminate worldwide as a videotape in July, apparently with an explanation or "expos=E9" regarding the two photos of Asket and Nera that I, allegedly, photographed from a television unit, and which are said not to be Asket and Nera but two American Asket/Nera look-alikes. You mentioned them yourself in Contact 39 when you stated that two young women live in America who work in the same business, and are spitting images of Asket and Nera. Ptaah: The two photographs do show the two look-alikes from America. Billy: How do you mean that?? I personally took the pictures of Asket and Nera. Ptaah: This is a fact. However, the problem is that you never received the original photographs, which would have been printed from your original negatives. Billy: I don't understand? Ptaah: Are you really unable to remember the incident? Billy: What am I supposed to remember? Ptaah: Quetzal's and my visit on February 3, 1985, when we explained to you a few of the connections as they pertained to the photographs you just mentioned. Billy: I have no recollection of this. What happened at that time? Ptaah: We revealed to you then that you had received fraudulent pictures which depict neither Asket nor Nera. Billy: Now I don't understand anything anymore. Ptaah: Oh, now I see. You really have forgotten everything, and with certainty this is linked to your life-threatening condition at the time, including your partial amnesia. That is why you are unable to remember many of these things. Billy: Please do not keep me in suspense now. Ptaah: At the time we did not wish to deal with these matters on a public level. Billy: But I do feel that this issue must be addressed if I hold fraudulent Asket/Nera photographs, which I have been selling with such a caption until now. If this is actually the case, they're really going to go after me ferociously. Ptaah: Well, it isnt really your fault. Blame must be directed toward your photographer. He allowed himself to be forced into such a fraudulent scheme by a group of "Men in Black," and then he cheated you with the resulting photographs. Billy: I am familiar with that riffraff. Several of them pursued my daughter Gilgamesha once when she was coming home from school. One of them chased her with a knife in his hand. When they couldn't catch her, the cowardly bums escaped in a large, black limo. Ptaah: I am familiar with the story. But hear this then: It seems that I must again relate all the information to you now, and this time in a way that brings it before the public, providing you wish to record this conversation for future use? Billy: For sure. Ptaah: All right then: From the beginning of the contacts with us you never allowed yourself to be intimidated by any of the schemes of the "Black Men," regardless of how despicable, dangerous, indeed, lifethreatening they were. Since you simply laughed at their assassination attempts and always carried a weapon---with the appropriate gun licence, I must add---the "Black Men", instead, resorted to making you look preposterous and highly questionable before the world. Because they were unable to get close enough to you, they aggressively forced people who worked with you, such as photographer S., to discredit you in a future, long-term basis. They coerced S. into forging the photographs you had taken with our permission. In other words, they made him completely forge or adulterate your pictures. Several times during your early contact period with us, your own films, which you had photographer S. develop and make prints of, were substituted with totally different, adulterated films. Therefore, from the very beginning you received many counterfeit negatives and photographs or adulterated pictures. This is also what occurred with the film on which you recorded the images of Asket and Nera, and which you allegedly did receive back after several months only. But in reality what you received was, in fact, a product of the "Black Men" who had discovered and photographed Asket's and Nera's doubles in America. These pictures were then processed and given to you by S. You, of course, believed they were the originals, but they were forgeries and deceptively similar to your own, authentic photographs. For this reason you did not realize you had been defrauded, and neither did we. In fact, we were unaware of this deceit until the autumn of 1984, when we brought your photos to Asket because she, too, wanted to have them. Of course, she noticed the deception immediately, and because of this, we began investigating the matter and discovered that the "Black Men" were behind the entire scheme and it was they who had forced the photographer into their services. Upon their mandat, S. produced the forged photographs and handed them to you as though they were originals---whereupon you always assumed they were the actual photographs you had taken yourself. This was the case also with the pictures of Asket and Nera. With regard to these particular photos, we discovered that S. immediately submitted the film, which you had just handed in to him for processing, to the "Black Men," respectively "Men in Black," as people in your ufological circles call them. Within a few days they found and repeatedly photographed the Asket/Nera look-alikes, and this is how the two pictures came into being with which you are familiar and which were passed on to you. The Gizeh Intelligences play somewhat of a role in this matter too, as you are well aware, although we were unable to clarify their exact association within this plot. Clearly, however, they negatively influenced a vast number of terrestrials through their telepathic impulses, in an effort to harm, defame and even assassinate you, which they attempted several times---fortunately without success. Everything was being done to make you and your mission appear preposterous, specifically by accusing you of producing photographic forgeries. The "Men in Black" wield their impact even today, and so do the decade-old influences of the negative telepathic impulse machinations against you and your mission, which shall be destroyed. The impulses by these Gizeh Intelligences presumably affect all those people who are working against you and the mission with their schemes, defamations, and other negative machinations, although these individuals never realize they are being influenced by these impulses. Billy: What am I going to do now with the photos? Under these circumstances I can no longer use or sell them. I really feel like a crook now after claiming they were photos of Asket and Nera. Ptaah: You are not guilty in this matter. But you could simply continue selling them with a new caption explaining that the two ladies are "American look-alikes of Asket and Nera." Billy: This scheme involving the Asket and Nera photos dates back to 1975 or so, a very long time ago. And yet, the consequences are only appearing now? That's what I call a long-term calculation. This is astounding. The situation actually warrants my respect. But why didn't we record this as part of a contact report? Then we could have openly clarified this matter much sooner. Ptaah: Unfortunately, it could no longer be handled on your end. After your last contact with Quetzal on October 31, 1984, and after you had finished your OM book, your health was in such an appalling state that for several years you were closer to death than to life. For this reason you were incapable then of jotting down the contact conversations. By November 17, 1989, your heatlh and strength had finally improved to the point where you were able to record our conversations again in writing. Billy: How is it possible that I forgot all of this . . . Ptaah: You know yourself how many things and facts you had to relearn and how many other things you were unable to relearn at all. Furthermore, your memory had been organically damaged, and this is the reason why it cannot be as active as it was previously. Just remember the power and capabilities your consciousness possessed when it allowed you to accomplish those many astonishing feats. Billy: It is unfortunate, but that's the way it is, I know . . . Billy: But now I just remembered another question regarding the "Men in Black" and their machinations with the look-alike photos and the photographer: How could the "Men in Black" find the two American women so easily and quickly, and then photograph them in the right way? Ptaah: These "Men in Black," as they are called because of the black clothing they constantly seem to wear, have always had access to unfathomable resources---or what normal people or citizens, rather, would consider them to be. It was a simple task for them to locate the two young artists. Once these extremely unscrupulous men set their mind to something, nothing remains hidden from them. The photos of these look-alikes, of whom I actually spoke during the 39th contact on December 3, 1975, were not taken in the presence of the two young women. Instead, their images were copied from movie footage to which the "Men in Black" had gained access. I believe this genre of film is called a "revue." In any case, individual photographs were copied from it and, together with photographer S., they selected those which most closely resembled your own photos of Asket and Nera. This is how they were able to deceive you. The purpose of the entire matter was to create pictures of specific situations identical to those you had taken of Asket and Nera. The objective was for you to normally, and unsuspectingly, disseminate and sell these counterfeit, or rather forged, photographs of the two look-alikes to interested parties, believing them to be original pictures of Asket and Nera. This scenario was intended to make you look deceitful one day because, so they calculated, sooner or later one of your adversaries would examine these photographs and get to the bottom of the matter---with the result that the forged Asket/Nera pictures in the so-called review film would be recognized as the photos you were holding of those look-alikes. This, then, was meant to provide the evidence for exposing you as a purported deceiver and make you and your story look preposterous and, subsequently, destroy your mission. All of this was thoroughly pre-programmed in 1975 by the "Men in Black." They concluded that the appropriate photo sequences would be found in the near future---which appears to have transpired now---and the photos would be fully exploited by your enemies soon afterwards. As far as we are concerned, there is no doubt that your and your mission's enemies are purely terrestrial beings under the influence of the long-term and still-active Gizeh impulses. Billy: Korff and Buergin too? Ptaah: Without any doubt. Billy: Now that you have brought up so much about the "Men in Black," I have another question: Quetzal told me once that these men are also responsible for an assassination attempt on my life. Which attempt was that? Ptaah: There was not only one attempt. Truthfully, eleven of the fourteen assassination attempts can be traced back to the "Men in Black." Billy: So, you are saying that on Ferbruary 3, 1985, you and Quetzal explained all of this to me about the so-called Asket/Nera photos, which actually depict the American doubles you had mentioned in the 39th contact? Well, unfortunately, I simply can't recall any of this, I have really forgotten it completely. Now I want to ask you why you have not reminded me of these facts until now? If I had consciously absorbed this information, I would have removed the pictures from circulation and published the appropriate details in our quarterly publication, the Wassermannzeit.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 23 Skywatch: Another Gutsy Celebrity From: "Skywatch" <jhickman@itlnet.net> [Sharolyn Stenger] Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 06:36:22 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 12:35:53 -0400 Subject: Skywatch: Another Gutsy Celebrity -----Original Message----- From: stenger@spindle.net <stenger@spindle.net> To: skypost@unix.ltlb.com <skypost@unix.ltlb.com> Date: Saturday, May 23, 1998 12:26 AM Subject: Another Gutsy Celebrity Hello, Fellow Skywatchers I frequently listen to Jeff Rense's "Sightings on the Radio" program. On tonight's show (Friday, May 22) Whitley Strieber was a guest for the first hour. Whitley made an announcement of an upcoming Rosie O'Donnell show on which he will be a guest. He indicated that Rosie will be revealing personal experiences she has had in connection with UFOs. I got the impression that there may have been alien contact! I find it astounding that a celebrity with her popularity and stature in the entertainment industry would have the courage to do this! I knew she was a believer in UFOs because I have heard her say so on her show, but she is apparently going to take a major step further. I will be glued to my TV on July 20, the date Whitley said he will appear on Rosie's show. This is BIG - if she goes through with it. She has a huge audience. She and her show won Emmys last week. Whitley also mentioned that he is producing a 2 hour special on NBC, which will also knock our socks off. He says it will be the most serious UFO study ever presented on network television, and that NBC is being very cooperative with him. Sounds encouraging to me. I don't believe he gave a projected date for that show, but I shall certainly be watching for that one too. Regards to all, Sharolyn stenger@spindle.net *************************** SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL INC. (A Non-Profit Organization) Administrative: Membership: Postings/Mailing PO Box 900393 PO Box 801 PO Box 2154 Pasadena, CA 93590-0393 Leander, TX 78646-0801 Elk City, OK 73648 USA USA USA Skywatch International Inc. and this list service are not responsible for content or authenticity of posts. Skywatch International, Inc. endorses no political candidate for office due to the organization's status as a non-profit corporation." "What could be stranger than the truth?" To post send your message to skypost@unix.ltlb.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 23 Re: Strieber on CSPAN? From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 12:45:14 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 21:54:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> > Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 09:39:04 EDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > >Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 18:10:57 +0200 > >From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > >> From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia] > >> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:05:11 EDT > >> To: updates@globalserve.net > >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > >> >Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:53:17 +0100 > >> >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > >> >To: updates@globalserve.net > >> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > <snip> > >Guys, > >Get real, wasn't he a not too good selling, horror/fiction writer > >before? Tell me what, makes this man so special. "Why, the guys > >story sound so real.." > Far be it for me to defend Strieber, but this isn't fair. He was > a bestseller writer before he moved into the UFO/abduction arena. > A couple of his books, THE WOLFEN and THE HUNGER had been made > into movies. He is a fine writer able to spin a wonderful story > which does not mean that his abduction tale is fiction in and of > itself. > The point here, however, is merely to correct the statement that > he was a not too good selling horror/fiction writer. He is a > bestselling writer. > KRandle That's a point I meant to make myself Kevin in one of my earlier submissions. I remember thinking at the time, when "Communion" came out, "What the heck is this guy thinking. He's got a good career going with a couple of best sellers under his belt and now he's coming right out of the blue with this? What the hell is he thinking?" In other words, I though he was taking a sharp turn in the direction of his writing and risking a great deal. In those days I had had no contact with people claiming abduction, save one, and that was so close to home and having no knowledge of the field, I blew it off. Then zingo, Streiber comes out with "Communion". My point is, Streiber, back then, had nothing to gain from "Communion"; he and Steven King were doing well off horror stories. If I remember correctly even Whitley's regular publisher wouldn't touch it. Don
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 23 Re: Filer's Files #20 From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Sat, 23 May 98 11:24:41 PDT Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 21:45:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Filer's Files #20 > Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 09:52:58 +0100 > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Pres. Carter > > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > > From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Filer's Files #20 > > Date: Fri, 22 May 98 10:30:09 PDT > Hi Jerry and List, > Re your remark that no serious ufologist disputes that Carter saw > Venus. > I wonder about that. I remember writing his sighting off as well, > but then some time afterward wondered if I might have been hasty > in light of his education and naval experience [which for the > life of me I can't recall, but remember at the time as being > impressive]. Was Carter not a scientist of some sort, physicis > perhaps. He was not only a peanut farmer. > Do you have info regarding his education Jerry? > Don Hi, Don and everybody: Here is my entry "Carter Sighting" in The UFO Encyclopedia: 2nd Ed., p. 174: As they stood outside waiting for a Lions Club meeting to start, Gov. Jimmy Carter and 10 residents of Leary, Georgia, noticed an unusually bright light at about 30 degrees' elevation in the western sky. Carter was to recall it appeared slightly smaller than the apparent size of the moon., It "came close, moved away, came close, then moved away," he reported. He estimated it to be "maybe 300-1000 yards" away. It "moved to [a] distance[,] then disappeared" ("Jimmy Carter's," 1977). The sighting took place on January 6, 1969, between approximately 7:15 and 7:30 p.m. Except for this sketchily rendered last detail, this object sounds very much like Venus, frequently mistaken for a UFO in part because of an optical illusion which causes stationary objects to appear to move back and forth. Indeed, the only real investigation of the incident, conducted by debunker Robert Sheaffer, established Venus' presence in the section of the sky Carter was observing. In common with an earlier reporter (Tiede, 1978), Sheaffer found that the other witnesses scarcely remembered the incident (Sheaffer, 1981). The story surfaced in a Dublin, Georgia, newspaper in September 1973. Carter told a reporter he attributed the phenomenon to an "electrical occurrence of some sort" (Helms, 1977). The sighting attracted much wider attention when Carter ran as a Democratic candidate for President in 1976. The tabloid National Enquirer ran a sensationalistic account, placing the incident in Thomaston, Georgia, in 1973 and misquoting witnesses in an effort to dramatize a not very exciting episode (Balfour, 1976; Sheaffer, op. cit.). Carter contributed to some of the confusion himself, placing the incident in October, rather than January, 1969 when he filled out a sighting-report form for the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena ("Jimmy Carter's," op. cit.). The correct date, which when found made possible a certain identification of the object, came to light in the course of Sheaffer's inquiries. Sources: Balfour, Malcolm. "Exclusive -- Jimmy Carter: The NIght I Saw a UFO." National Enquirer (June 8, 1976). "The Carter Sighting." The A.P.R.O. Bulletin (November 1976): 1,4-5. Helms, Harry L., Jr. "Pres. Jimmy Carter and Georgia's UFO Wave." UFO Report 4,1 (May 1977): 16-19,64. "Jimmy Carter's 1973 UFO Report." UFO Investigator (February 1977): 1-3. Sheaffer, Robert. The UFO Verdict: Examining the Evidence. Buffalo, NY: Prometheus Books, 1981. Tiede, Tom. "Leary Citizens Are Still Leery About Carter's UFO Report." Memphis Press- Scimitar (February 14, 1978).
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 23 Re: Strieber on CSPAN? From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 09:54:07 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 22:18:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 09:30:22 +0100 > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > > Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 06:13:38 -0700 > > From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > > > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:53:17 +0100 > > > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > > > From: buck@cchat.com [Bill Weber] > > > > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:04:04 -0400 > > > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > > > > Agreed, but very difficult to do. It is hard to imagine the > > > > impact that man has had on lives, not to mention marketing. > > > > Here's a silly question. Does someone on the list actually KNOW > > > > something about this and can prove it? > > > > He's a wonderful writer. If true and Communion was a marketing > > > > idea, I would have to think of Strieber with the same mixture of > > > > disgust and admiration I feel for the folks who periodically rob > > > > Brink's trucks. > > > I always come back to the fact that Strieber did not restrict his > > > experiences to himself but his family - in particular his son - > > > as well. > > > When I wonder at Strieber's motives for writing Communion, > > > whether for truth or for avarice, I think of his mention of his > > > son. How far do you have to go to make a buck. My gut feeling is > > > that Strieber is a better man than that. > > > There's a problem in this field as we all know. If you write > > > about it it can't be a personal thing. If you see one, then you > > > have no credibility as an investigator. There's so much horseshit > > > in this field it makes it hard to get down and boogie. > > Before this trashfest goes any further, let me add one story in > > support of the authenticity of Strieber's accounts. > That's an unfortunate choice of words Skye. Where do you see > trashing in the last few paragraphs. If anything, I'm lending him > some support while having a few reservations. I've got close > relatives and friends that are going through this as well so I'm > not likely to trash anyone with the same claims, including > Streiber. There's another message I put on the list earlier that > you might want to read. Sorry, Don. I wrote this at 6 AM, which I should never do, because I'm too sloppy at that early hour. I wasn't referring to your post, but to the others that preceded it, and followed. -- Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> ICQ Pager 6797092
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 23 Re: Crazy Week 2 From: "Jeff Westover" <jeff.westover@mailexcite.com> Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 10:36:59 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 22:26:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Crazy Week 2 >From: Masinaigan <Masinaigan@aol.com> [Joseph Trainor] >Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 20:49:49 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Crazy Week 2 >Dear List Members: >USA Today for May 22, 1998 had more on satellite Galaxy IV going >haywire. It happened a few minutes past 6 p.m. CDT, and the >satellite was over the north-central USA when they lost contact. >Here's what we have for UFO activity in that region on that >date: > (1) Bloomington, Indiana - 4 UFOs heading north > (2) Howell, Michigan - 1 UFO at very high altitude > (3) Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania - 1 hovering UFO >If anyone comes across any other sightings for May 19, 1998, >please post them on Errol's list. >Thanks! I, too, had a May 19, 1998 sighting in Marlette, MI (Michigan's "thumb" area). At 10:15 pm I noticed a large cluster of reddish lights approximately 15-20 degrees above the WSW horizon that, after two minutes of being stationary, shot straight up into the night sky. This sighting took place about the same time as the Howell, MI sighting. The object's position in the sky would've put it over the Howell area if it were high enough in the sky. I'm a volunteer sketch artist for Michigan MUFON and promptly reported the sighting to the official MUFON member that I sketch for.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 23 Re: White House demonstration planned by ORTK From: MDJ50@webtv.net (Mike Jamieson) Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 11:00:47 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 22:28:53 -0400 Subject: Re: White House demonstration planned by ORTK The Board of Directors for Operation Right To Know has approved planning for a demonstration at the White House in early July 1999. This event will be staged for the basic purpose of drawing further, and more serous, public attention to the UFO issue. Since little is truly known altogether about the responses, operations and knowledge of the elements within the government that deal with UFOs, the message will be a generalized call for the government to begin a public and serious examination of the UFO mystery. The tone will be nonconfrontational and the focus on fruitful public education. Hopefully, the demonstration will draw significant numbers of the general public. ORTK will take care to present responsible and credible public communicatins--as it has with previous events. ORTK is also guided by a policy that all of its actions must be legal and non-disruptive to the public order. We will be applying for a permit this fall--which is when the Department of Interior will take applications for dates next year. Let us know what you think--and whether you would be willng to participate and/or help. Thank you.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 23 Re: Strieber on CSPAN? From: buck@cchat.com [Bill Weber] Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 14:34:57 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 22:31:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 06:13:38 -0700 > From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:53:17 +0100 > > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > > From: buck@cchat.com [Bill Weber] > > > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:04:04 -0400 > > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > > > > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 05:11:20 -0500 > > > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > > > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > > > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > > > > >From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> > > > > >Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 00:35:36 EDT > > > > >To: updates@globalserve.net > > > > >Subject: Strieber on CSPAN? > > > > >>You might not know this, but when Whitley published his > > > > >>bsetseller COMMUNION, from which his reputation sprang, > > > > >>the entire book was a hoax. I have it from those in the publishing > > > > >>field that published that very book ---- a top high ranking editor > > > > >>---- that COMMUNION was not a true story, but a "journey from > > > > >>one place to another" in a fictional realm. > > > Velez wrote, > > > > I've heard the same thing from different sources. Don't know if > > > > it's true or not. Unless something like that can be substantiated > > > > it's best to ignore it until some credible evidence is > > > > presented. > > > Agreed, but very difficult to do. It is hard to imagine the > > > impact that man has had on lives, not to mention marketing. > > > Here's a silly question. Does someone on the list actually KNOW > > > something about this and can prove it? > Before this trashfest goes any further, let me add one story in > support of the authenticity of Strieber's accounts. Hi Skye, Wait just a minute. This is quite a hullabaloo for what I thought was a fairly innocuous first post after years of lurking. I must have missed the "trashfest." I simply asked the question whether anyone had any REAL evidence that Strieber's book was fiction. I followed up with a rather superficial, boring and obvious exclamatory statement. That I'll cop to. But trashfest??? That question, as well as the flip side, whether or not anybody has any hard evidence he's insane, are questions that I would hope would logically occur to anybody who has ever picked up a piece of abduction literature. (How many millions?) By the way, I don't mean to imply by simply asking the question that I am accusing Strieber of either one. If anything, I asked a question that's probably been addressed ad nausium by people far more knowledgeable about Strieber, his books and abduction evidence than I. I guess I don't understand where "trashing" enters into it. I really do apologize for the way in which I asked it, but what's wrong with the question? Second, you mention Strieber's trip into the woods. I haven't read Communion in a long time, and it may be a part of his second and third book on the subject, but it seems to me he did the same thing on more than one occasion. If that fact alone is true: if he walked alone into the woods at night without a light, searching for the source of his own nightmares, he has more courage and curiosity than anyone I know. I guess that speaks to his honesty. Sincerely, Bill
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 23 Re: Meier admits: 'Asket' and 'Nera' pics ARE a From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 12:32:00 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 22:42:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Meier admits: 'Asket' and 'Nera' pics ARE a >Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 17:10:29 -0400 >From: Joachim Koch <JKoch1@compuserve.com> >Subject: Billy Meier admits: 'Asket' and 'Nera' pics ARE a fraud! >To: Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com >Hi Errol, colleagues and friends! >We always felt honoured to be members of Errol's mailing list >and maybe now we can give back to you some of the excitement we >felt when we read the latest news here or received your profound >analysis and research results of various items in the large field >of ufology. >The following really is a big hammer and it shall be you all >here on Errol's list to get this information first.. We publish >it exclusively here and leave it to you to spread it anywhere - >please do so. >[...] >Today (May 22nd), about noon, I received an email from Luc >Buergin who told me to have a look at the FIGU homepage. I did so >- and wouldn't believe my eyes. I checked twice not be on a >different homepage. No, It was FIGU's official homepage, section >news, page title 'Asket'. > >I read: > >"Eine aeusserst unerfreuliche Anglegenheit" > >In English: > >" A very unpleasant affair" > >This is the headline of the foreword of contact report No. 264 >of Thursday, May 14th, 1998, 00:55 am CET, written by Mr. Meier >himself (article signed with "Billy") where the following first >paragraph reads like this (original text in German, English >translation here by me): > >"In the course of the latest contact talk with Ptaah very >unpleasant facts surfaced regarding the two photographs Asket and >Nera which up to date are listed under this description in the >FIGU albums and which also have been sold. > >Unfortunately, during the talk with Ptaah, it now turned out that >the two women shown on the photographs are not Asket and Nera >from the DAL-Universe but their American doubles. These were >mentioned by Ptaah in contact report No. 39 in 1975. > >These photographs are malicious frauds which were foisted on me, >Billy, on behalf of and in collaboration with the "Men In Black". >Explanations referring to that are included in the excerpts of >the latest contact report which are given below to inform all >friends, members, acquaintances and interested parties of the >general perspectives and the baddish underhand dealings of the >"Men In Black" and their hired helpers. > >Furthermore the aforementioned three photographs (No. 109, 110, >111 - unfortunately in the contact talk only two pics were >mentioned because No. 109 is of very bad quality) will be not >excluded from the range of photographs but will be kept and in >the future marked with the note that the depicted two young >women are the American doubles of Asket and Nera and that their >outlook is so similar that practically there is no possibility of >distinguishing them - except by the ones in question themselves. >But now read on the excerpts of the contact reports of May 14th, >1998. > > Billy" >[...] Hello Updates List, I've omitted the rest of this because it was repeated and filled in by Christian Frehner of Meier's FIGU group in Switzerland. Koch seems to have done a very good job in translating it. But here is a reminder I have for Koch, Buergin and others. Members of FIGU naturally believe that what Meier was told by Semjase, Ptaah et al. is all truth and no disinformation. They wouldn't be that close to Meier if they didn't believe that. Many ufologists, on the other hand, do not bother to distinguish between what a contactee or abductee is told or shown by the aliens from what the experiencers themselves know occurred to them and what they photographed or video-taped. Koch is one who fails to make the distinction, because it is simpler for him to believe that aliens would always tell the truth. Hence he is happy to believe that Meier made it all up. But think of all the witnesses besides Meier who saw, even in the daytime, one of the Meier "beamships." Think of the seven 8-mm film segments, plus one video tape, which depict a particular type of "beamship" that is identical in appearance to what's in Meier's still photos. (Hopefully someone like Bruce Maccabee might give us an anlysis of the one film segment in which the UFO suddenly turns on or turns off its fluttering movement, decelerates to a stop without swinging, etc.) These are not to be forgotten, no matter how much Korff would like to do so. There are even some abductees who know better than to accept as truth what they are told or shown on viewing screens by their alien abductors. So there is no excuse for ufologists themselves to expect that what abductees and contactees are told is only truth. The reasons why falsehoods would be included in what they are told should be obvious; and most of you probably don't need a reminder from me on that. Of course, many ufologists don't believe that any true contactees exist, because that has been the tradition within ufology even before abductees showed up. That's your perogative, of course, but a good deal of that evolved out of the belief that what the contactee was told was either all truth or was invented by the hoaxer/contactee. It means you have to close your eyes to a lot of what sincere supportive witnesses have reported, plus the experiencers' photographic evidence. So this is a reminder to Koch: There is a middle ground in which some contactees do truly exist, as well as multitudinous abductees, but in which a lot of what they're told is disinformation. The black-white belief of contactees either being told only truths that make sense to us or else they are hoaxers is way overly simplistic. Please take care in the future to distinguish what Meier relays on to others that comes from his contactors from what we know evidentially about the reality of his contact experiences. It appears that Meier still accepts what his contactors tell him as truth. This is not unexpected, though, for someone who has been subjected to all kinds of alien experiences, and who has been told much truth that he could confirm, as well as disinformation, by his contactors. If you or I had been chosen and volunteered to be subjected to the same, we might well be in the same position. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 24 Re: The Paradigm Clock From: John <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 13:25:53 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 08:18:49 -0400 Subject: Re: The Paradigm Clock >From: MDJ50@webtv.net (Mike Jamieson) >Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:35:12 -0700 >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: The Paradigm Clock >>Date: May 21, 1998 09 28-53-0400 >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com >>Subject: The Paradigm Clock >>What is a UFO student? >>...if you can point to any positive impact that (Dr. Greer's >>efforts] has had in breaking through the 'barrier of silence' >>...we are dealing with a situation it is probably better to not say >>anything until you have your evidence lined up.. >>Date: Thursday 21 may 1998 14:46:15 -0500 >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net >>Subject: The Paradigm Clock >>Oh poop! Please, name names if you're going to make >>conspiratorial accusations... >>Let me 'shft your paradigm' for you. I don't trust Greer! >I posted comments re. The Paradigm Clock that attempted to make >essentially one point: that it's going to take hard and >cooperative work on our part to expose classified information and >conclusions related to UFO events. Obviously I wasn't very >clear judging by the two responses. >Dr. Greer has worked hard and clearly with good results. Sure , >he's said and done some stupid things, making him like the rest >of us. Clearly, he has raised the awareness of some >journalists, members of Congress, and people in the Executive >Branch. The attacks on Greer is just more of the strange >nastiness andoneupmanship so prevalent in the UFO field. Hi Mike, Let me see if I get this, if Greer acts like a horses patoot he's only human. But if anyone criticizes him it's "one up- manship"? One set of values for Greer and another for the rest of us? S'plain Lucy, Reeky doesn't unnerstan. <G> Peace, John Velez ___________________________________________________________________________ AIC INTERACTIVE CONFERENCE http://www.IF-AIC.com jvif@spacelab.net ___________________________________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 24 Re: Strieber on CSPAN? From: John <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 13:39:09 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 08:20:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? >Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 06:13:38 -0700 >From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? >> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:53:17 +0100 >> From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> > From: buck@cchat.com [Bill Weber] >> > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:04:04 -0400 >> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? >> > > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 05:11:20 -0500 >> > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> > > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? >> > > >From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> >> > > >Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 00:35:36 EDT >> > > >To: updates@globalserve.net >> > > >Subject: Strieber on CSPAN? >> > > >>You might not know this, but when Whitley published his >> > > >>bsetseller COMMUNION, from which his reputation sprang, >> > > >>the entire book was a hoax. I have it from those in the publishing >> > > >>field that published that very book ---- a top high ranking editor >> > > >>---- that COMMUNION was not a true story, but a "journey from >> > > >>one place to another" in a fictional realm. >> > Velez wrote, >> > > I've heard the same thing from different sources. Don't know if >> > > it's true or not. Unless something like that can be substantiated >> > > it's best to ignore it until some credible evidence is >> > > presented. >> > Agreed, but very difficult to do. It is hard to imagine the >> > impact that man has had on lives, not to mention marketing. >> > Here's a silly question. Does someone on the list actually KNOW >> > something about this and can prove it? Skye writes: >Before this trashfest goes any further, let me add one story in >support of the authenticity of Strieber's accounts. Trashfest? I think that both you and Tampa Joe have read more into the posts in this thread than is actually there. It's ok for folks to discuss Streiber, (or anyone else) if it brings any new information to light. The point that I and others tried to make is that charges (of the kind being brought against Strieber here) should be ignored unless they are accompanied by credible hard evidence. Some of us came to his defense! How is -that- a "trashfest?" Joe (overreacted) as well rushing to Whitleys defense in a post of his own. The problem with a lot of folks is that they read -what they want to hear- and not -what is actually being said- or written. Nobody's "trashing" Whitley. We should be able to discuss our views and opinions of him without having folks start labelling it a "trashfest." Peace, John Velez ___________________________________________________________________________ AIC INTERACTIVE CONFERENCE http://www.IF-AIC.com jvif@spacelab.net ___________________________________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 24 International Sasquatch Symposium: June 5 - 7, 1998 From: UFO*BC <pengilly@axionet.com> [David Pengilly] Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 15:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 08:14:04 -0400 Subject: International Sasquatch Symposium: June 5 - 7, 1998 International Sasquatch Symposium June 5 - 7, 1998 UBC Campus University of British Columbia Vancouver, B.C., Canada Participate in discussions with leading scientists, investigators, researchers and actual eye witnesses. EVERYONE IS WELCOME. ADMISSION: Friday Evening: $8 Saturday All Day Pass: $12 Sunday All Day Pass: $12 Weekend Pass: $20 ADVANCE TICKET INFORMATION: Please call the Sasquatch Symposium HotLine: (604) 321-8368 For more information, check out http://ufobc.org/events.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 24 Re: Strieber on CSPAN? From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 21:37:44 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 08:37:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > From: buck@cchat.com [Bill Weber] > Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 14:34:57 -0400 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > > Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 06:13:38 -0700 > > From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > > > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:53:17 +0100 > > > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > > > From: buck@cchat.com [Bill Weber] > > > > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:04:04 -0400 > > > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > > > > > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 05:11:20 -0500 > > > > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > > > > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > > > > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > > > > > >From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> > > > > > >Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 00:35:36 EDT > > > > > >To: updates@globalserve.net > > > > > >Subject: Strieber on CSPAN? <snip> > Hi Skye, > Wait just a minute. This is quite a hullabaloo for what I > thought was a fairly innocuous first post after years of lurking. > I must have missed the "trashfest." I simply asked the question > whether anyone had any REAL evidence that Strieber's book was > fiction. I followed up with a rather superficial, boring and > obvious exclamatory statement. That I'll cop to. But > trashfest??? Bill, honestly I don't even remember what your post said, but it started a thread of for and against, and at the point I posted my say, the "againsts" were more numerous, I think. That's what I meant by "trashfest." > Second, you mention Strieber's trip into the woods. I haven't > read Communion in a long time, and it may be a part of his second > and third book on the subject, but it seems to me he did the same > thing on more than one occasion. If that fact alone is true: if > he walked alone into the woods at night without a light, > searching for the source of his own nightmares, he has more > courage and curiosity than anyone I know. I guess that speaks to > his honesty. I think this battle with his fear about the woods went on for quite some time, and perhaps was mentioned in more than one book. But he did discuss it in Communion, as I recall. Yeah, the guy's got guts. When I was at that same stage with my own experiences, one day believing them, the next day trying to write them off I got to the point where the back and forth was driving me more crazy than the experiences themselves. So, having by then read Strieber's Communion, and his request that the ETs show up and solve the question once and for all, I decided this was the only solution that would end my uncertainty as well. So, I telepathically asked the ETs to show up. And they did. (Of course I tried to write that off too, but eventually I had to realize that what I'd experienced was absolutely real.) Sorry for the confusion. Like I said, I should learn to never answer email before I've had at least two cups of coffee! ;-) -- Skye Turell <turel33@west.net> ICQ Pager 6797092
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 24 Re: Strieber on CSPAN? From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia] Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 22:03:02 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 08:32:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? >Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 19:47:38 +0100 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? Joe's note - The man Don is referring to is Strieber >I am suggesting Joe that the fact that the man included his son >in his experience lends some credibility to the experience >itself, unless he was a total jerk. Think about it. If you were >to include your kid in a book about what has to be one of the >most mind shattering experiences a person can go through, knowing >what your son or daughter might go through in his own peer group >[read school at that age] don't you think that it would have to >be for the best of all possible motives.....not just to make some >quick $$$$$. That's the only way I would involve one of my kids, >for the best possible motives, not $$$$. >Go back and read what I said again Joe. I'm not dumping on >Streiber but giving him the benefit of the doubt. Sorry Don. I guess I was so ready for people to attack Strieber that I didn't read your post correctly. Sorry again. >I started with "Communion" and worked my way forward. Before >"Communion" I had no knowledge of abduction so I had no frame of >reference. I had no reason not to believe Streiber's story, and >up until now I still haven't seen any evidence to support >evidence that he wrote a story to make a buck. In '85-'87, there >was no preceived market for the story anyway. >Don Ledger Don, this is not directed at you. My personal feeling was that Strieber WAS a successful author when he put Communion out. As Kevin Randle wrote, he had two of his novels, The Wolfen and The Hunger made into a movie. That's not a simple thing to have done. Somebody obviously liked those novels. He may not have totally given up his fiction career but he definitely put it aside for a while to write these "crazy" abduction books. IMHO, that took guts. Joe Murgia
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 24 Re: Strieber on CSPAN? From: KAnder6444 <KAnder6444@aol.com> [Kathleen Andersen] Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 21:07:13 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 08:16:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 09:39:04 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? >"He is a fine writer able to spin a wonderful story >which does not mean that his abduction tale is fiction in and of >itself." Thank you Kevin!! I do know Whitley personally and have had the wonderful opportunity at a couple of conferences as MC to introduce him to his audience. Actually I will see him Friday, he is coming to Seattle. The point that some people can overlook, be it here or in other forums, is that what he has to say has affected many people, including myself. Do we need pure facts to learn something and to open our minds to possibilities of what our life is about? Aren't the Bible, the Koran, the Torah written upon weaving a story to make a point. Perhaps we are dealing with a subject that the truth might be a little too harsh for the general public. Reading a story that is based on truth is an easier way to get the point across. Now don't jump all over me, I am an investigator. I deal with written reports all the time as a MUFON section director. I am not against reading or writing detailed reports! However, I myself, learn more from reading a story, picking out what works for me and applying it to my life. Celestine Prophecy, classic example of weaving a story with some truth to it and a lot of "fluff". Silly, some say? What in that story kept readers buying that book to keep it on the New York Times best selling list for almost 2 years? An adventure tale based in South America? Or was there some points in that story that might have hit home? For me, personally whether it was reading Whitley or James Redfield, there is something in those stories that made me think about what my life is all about. These books touched people lives, that should count the most. Kathleen Andersen Seattle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 24 Possible Pyramid to the North of Triangle? From: Milamo <Milamo@aol.com> [Michael Lawrence Morton] Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 01:37:03 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 08:47:48 -0400 Subject: Possible Pyramid to the North of Triangle? JB is Jane Blume ... a subscriber to the mars_updates@world.std.com mailing list .... From: Milamo <Milamo@aol.com> To: mars_updates@world.std.com Subject: Re: Possible Pyramid to the North of Triangle Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 01:00:32 EDT In a message dated 98-05-23 15:12:50 EDT, you write: >I'm very confused about the images of the "Face" produced by >NASA. The 1976 images that I saw in Richard Hoagland's book, >which supposedly came directly from NASA, looked definitely >looked like a face. >The 1998 images were radically different, but still looked like a >face of some kind - although greatly eroded. >Can anyone explain this to me? >JB Jane .... I would say (as I've said before ... but it's been a while) ..... that we (The People) are NOT getting "real" images of 'The Face' from this current mission. Something is being done to hide/obfuscate/mutilate/'junk-up' these 1998 images. Parts .... significant parts ... of the 'true' image(s) are apparently being "erased" or withheld through computerized manipulation, BEFORE the "remains" are then forwarded on to the public. Also, "junk" is apparently being 'added' electronically to some of these "remains" before forwarding on to the public. You are right ... as many people have pointed out .... that the 1976 Viking images of 'The Face' (and of other structures in Cydonia such as 'The D&M Pyramid') were much better-defined and 'clearer' than these so-called "images" from MGS in 1998. This fact ALONE 'should be' red-flagging the public into mass outrage ... but of course this ISN'T the case, is it ? We need to ask ourselves 'WHY?' One reason could be that the public has been numbed ... and 'dumbed' ... by various disinformation campaigns .... on The Internet, TV, movies, magazines, journals, etc. The public seems to now "assume that everything is bogus" .... unless "proven otherwise". But then, what criteria is acceptable to establish this "proof" ? The work of Carl P. Munck is based upon solid criteria. He used the map of Erol O. Torun, who has been a professional cartographer with the Defense Mapping Agency, to calculate the latitude/longitude of 'The Face' at Cydonia, relative to the exact position of 'The D&M Pyramid' AND relative to the exact position of the Martian equator. Torun used official Viking (1976) photos of Cydonia, which he then had access to in the Defense Mapping Agency, to map the precise positions of certain structures in Cydonia. It was Munck who suggested that the Martian prime meridian ran through the center of 'The D&M Pyramid'. He had already determined that Earth's prime meridian passed through the center of The Great Pyramid at Giza. The latitude/longitude numbers of all the major ancient monuments, pyramids, and mounds on Earth ... are precisely correlated to this ancient prime meridian running through the center of The Great Pyramid. Munck's work conclusively proves this ... over and over again, according to the exact known positions of hundreds of pyramids, mounds, stone circles, etc., on Earth. His work is self-published and available for anyone to see. (Many people have already seen it ... and it has scared/embarassed them into denial, silence, ridicule, professional envy, and blatant intellectual dishonesty). When the Martian prime meridian was adjusted to pass through the center of 'The D&M Pyramid', the numbers immediately fell into place. An obvious and elegant correspondence between Cydonia and Giza was promptly noted. Munck sent his findings all over ... including to NASA. No one would publish it. NASA ignored it. This was in the early 1990s. Still to this day, no one has published his brilliant work. (This ought to tell you something). Munck proved that 'The Face' at Cydonia is a magnificent artifact. He proved that it is indeed "speaking" to us, if we will hear it. The proof is at the center of 'The Face' ... the actual Grid Point .... the value of which is 656.56127. 656.56127 = (360 x RADIAN deg) / (10 x Pi) Anyone into basic geometry knows that this is an obvious (and very dramatic) sign of intelligence. Look at the four terms on the right side of the above simple equation. We have here : the 360 equal segments on a circumference that we call "degrees of arc", we have the RADIAN-degrees measure that defines the length of arc on a circumference equal (as close as possible) to the radius of the same circle or sphere, we have the Pi constant that is the ratio of circumference to diameter of a circle or sphere (as close as possible), and we have the number 10 representing our "base-ten" system of numbers. And, Munck clearly shows, in his work, the way this "Grid Point Value" is determined for 'The Face' at Cydonia: Grid Latitude of 'The Face' ...... 1440 x Pi .... = 4523.893421 North = 41 deg x 11 min x 10.03080581 sec Grid Longitude of 'The Face' ...... 6.890283706 min E.Cydonia ...... or East of the Martian prime meridian running through the center of 'The D&M Pyramid'. Grid Point Value = 4523.893421 / 6.890283706 = 656.56127 Even the number of longitude minutes here is an elegant-but-simple "Pi Multiplex", as Carl calls it ..... (2Pi / 3) x (Pi / 3) x Pi = 6.890283706 This has "intelligent design" beaming out from it !!! And, we ALREADY HAVE THE PROOF. This work was done from the 1976 Viking photos. The GAME IS OVER! PERIOD!!! They cannot remove the LOCATION of 'The Face' that is documented in the Viking photos. So; let's call a 'consensus' HALT to this sick game of 'lies and suppression of truth'.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 24 Re: Strieber on CSPAN? From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia] Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 22:45:08 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 08:32:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 09:39:04 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? >Far be it for me to defend Strieber, but this isn't fair. He was >a bestseller writer before he moved into the UFO/abduction arena. >A couple of his books, THE WOLFEN and THE HUNGER had >been made into movies. He is a fine writer able to spin a wonderful >story which does not mean that his abduction tale is fiction in and of >itself. >The point here, however, is merely to correct the statement that >he was a not too good selling horror/fiction writer. He is a >bestselling writer. >KRandle Kevin, Thank You. It's nice to see established researchers stand up for other people in the field of ufology. This wasn't fair and (Not because of Don Ledger's comments) it wasn't called for but as we all can see, there are a lot of people in this field that harbor a lot of hatred and jealosy towards some of the more visable and successful researchers. What a waste of energy. I saw Derrel Sims and Dr. Roger Leir speak today at the local MUFON mtg. They were both very scientific when it came to what they reported. I was surpised because when I read a article about Sims in an Orange County Register article, it made him sound like a kook. He's not. In public, they both stuck to the facts. The nuts and bolts people on this list would have loved it. When Sims DID speculate, he always prefaced his feelings and his personal speculations with things like "This is what I believe" and "I have no proof of this". He only did it to add some possible insight on some things and to appease the crowd who asked questions that called for speculative answers. Even then they were both hesitant to answer. I was actually one of the persons in the audience that asked them to speculate. I couldn't help it. The story I was referring to was just too interesting. I wanted their opinion. I should have known better than to take that Register story at face value. They took so many things out of context. The only way you would have been able to tell this is if you attended the lecture yourself which most readers of that paper or the internet posting of that article probably didn't do. Their work is along the same lines as Strieber's is in his new book Confirmation. They all agree as I'm sure everybody on this list does, that we need to really push for mainsream scientists to get involved with this field or we will never get to the truth and prove the reality or lack of reality of all these things. Progress is definitely being made. Scientists are slowly opening up their minds and looking at the evidence. Right now, it seems to me that implant research is one of the more promising things going on. Memory research is also taking a turn for the better. New technology is opening up a lot of new ways to do tests if a memory is real or imagined. Sims and Leir are starting to work with many mainstream scientists. Unfortunately, they have to remain anonomous at this time because they fear they will be ridiculed and could lose their jobs. We all know that their fear is waranted. John Mack, is a perfect example. I can't wait 'til others start catching on to all the good evidence out there that is just begging to be looked at by the mainstream scientists.Things COULD take off quickly and some big time progress could be made. Please, don't anybody get discouraged. Progress is occuring.It's just not that easy to see all the time. Oh yeah, Sims and Leir said that the main group that is harassing other UFO researchers and trying to debunk them is not the "secret gov't" but other researchers. Ain't that the sad truth. Joe Murgia Tampa, Florida
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 24 Re: White Dots/Discs, Daylight Sightings From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 01:14:47 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 08:49:08 -0400 Subject: Re: White Dots/Discs, Daylight Sightings >Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 10:11:09 +0100 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: White Dots/Discs, Daylight Sightings >> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 13:01:51 -0500 >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >> Subject: White Dots/Discs, Daylight Sightings >> Hello All, >> I have been seeing and videotaping small white 'dots/discs' >> in the skies over New York for three years. I have had several >> of these looked at by knowledgable people (including Jeff >> Sanio) and the 'objects' (for want of a better term) remain >> unidentified. >> Their behavior ranges from hovering for extended periods >> of time to sudden and irratic movements and flight paths. >> Sometimes they dart off so fast it's hard to follow, or they >> may slowly begin to fly off in another direction from a dead >> standstill. >> They 'jitter' from side to side (like a tiny pendulum >> movement) when they are 'hovering.' They -are not- balloons, >> or airplanes, or helicopters. I have contacted astronomers >> that assure me that they cannot be stationary satellites >> (some of my sightings/recordings show the objects at zenith. >> Stationary satellite orbits would appear closer to the equator.) ><Snip> >> John Velez >Hi John, >These same astronomers should also have mentioned that stationary >satellites are approx. 24,700 miles out in space in equatorial >orbits and would be impossible to see with the naked eye. They >could be seen with a telescope and from well up into the higher >latitudes. They are in geocentric orbits and falling around the >Earth at the same speed as the Earth turns thereby staying >"stationary"in relation to a fixed point on the Earth's surface. >Arthor Clarke proposed the idea years before they were an >acuality and now gets royalties for it. LEO sats., on the other >hand, are falling around the Earth at the rate of about 17,000 >mph or once every 90 minutes, in order to stay in orbit but >cannot stay stationary. >The next time I come down the I-95 and pass NY, from NS I'll do >it at night. I want to see the little devils. Hiya Don, I'm talking about -daylight sightings- Don. Drive down anytime you please, apparently these 'things' don't keep "regular hours" like we do. <g> And be sure to pull over to look up. Driving and skywatching like driving and being loaded -just don't mix! <G> TTYL, John Velez ___________________________________________________________________________ AIC INTERACTIVE CONFERENCE http://www.IF-AIC.com jvif@spacelab.net ___________________________________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 24 Re: White House demonstration planned by ORTK From: "Steven Kaeser" <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 08:39:04 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 09:08:18 -0400 Subject: Re: White House demonstration planned by ORTK >From: MDJ50@webtv.net (Mike Jamieson) >Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 11:00:47 -0700 >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: White Houe demonstration planned by ORTK >The Board of Directors for Operation Right To Know has approved >planning for a demonstration at the White House in early July >1999. This event will be staged for the basic purpose of drawing >further, and more serous, public attention to the UFO issue. <snip> I don't want to get into a long debate about the validity of this type of demonstration (and I was a big time demonstrator during the anti-Viet Nam War movement), but the timing of this event couldn't be much worse. Next summer the Nation will be in the midst of a Presidential election. This demonstration is planned in front of an administration that is on the way out, and every news media outlet is going to be looking for the political slant in each story they run. Republicans will be damning the Democrats, and the largest target of their angst will be Clinton (if he's still in office. . . . . <g>), and I can just imagine the press releases now as they tout that this is an Administration that appeals to UFO-nuts. If someone uncovers a "smoking gun" that will be accepted by the media as valid, then such a demonstration would be valuable (and probably not needed since the press would run with the story without being prodded). But to simply appear before the White House, carrying signs and shouting slogans, will provide quite a show for the tourists and give the media a great comic relief angle. The media has changed quite a bit since the 60's and 70's, and it would be far more logical (IMHO) to hold such a demonstration at another location that pertains to the subject at hand. The media will pick up the story, if you provide enough to make it news worthy, and it will still get National (and probably International) attention. But, again, you have to have some sort of "smoking gun" or the story becomes one of a political fringe that has been out in the sun too long. Keep in mind that Pennsylvania Avenue has now been closed to traffic in front of the White House, and you won't catch the attention of those driving by, since they are kept at least a block away. So the only audience you will have will be the tourists, perhaps the media, and the Secret Service. I doubt that's really going to be all that helpful. Secondly, any negative impact this event has on the genre will be transferred to the MUFON National Symposium, which is planned for the DC area next July. Then again, that probably has something to do with the timing.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 24 Help Wanted From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl> Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 14:49:06 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 09:12:44 -0400 Subject: Help Wanted Hi people, I'm writing an article about the new Meier-story, and I'm trying to contact FIGU by e-mail the last couple of days...without any luck so far. I was wondering if anyone could tell me if FIGU or Meier can be reached by phone. If that's not the case, I also would be happy with the e-mail or phone of Luc Buergin. It really would be a great help. Thanks again, Andy Denne A.U.R.A. The Netherlands
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 24 Re: Meier admits: 'Asket' and 'Nera' pics a fraud From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 09:21:23 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 09:41:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Meier admits: 'Asket' and 'Nera' pics a fraud >Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 12:32:00 -0700 (PDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Billy Meier admits: 'Asket' and 'Nera' pics > ARE a fraud! >>Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 17:10:29 -0400 >>From: Joachim Koch <JKoch1@compuserve.com> >>Subject: Billy Meier admits: 'Asket' and 'Nera' pics ARE a fraud! >>To: Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com This whole thing is very simply explained. Here on earth Jerry Lewis and to a lesser extent his old sidekick Dean Martin are considered as demigods by the most advanced people on the planet, the French. If you doubt that the French are the most advanced people on the planet, just ask them. They will set you straight. So, then, why should not aliens from the Pleiades also revere Martin and Lewis as gods? Why then should they not emulate, indeed copy, the trappings of these gods? This includes fixing themselves up to look precisely like dancers on the TV program of one of the gods. I see no big mystery here, and Billy is very obviously telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth as he always has. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 24 Alfred's Odd Ode #247 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 08:54:07 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 09:58:44 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #247 Apology to MW #248 (For May 24, 1998) All it takes? Cooperation! Y2K just goes away, but culture's mind is shown at last, the truth to be as plain as day. Rewrite the code, upgrade the stuff, do it 'til you've done enough. Solve the puzzle, spend the bucks, stingy is as stingy sucks. Do it more than trickle down -- Y2K's an errant clown, waiting for your contribution to convenient institutions. It waits for you to spend _your_ money, that's the fear that drives it -- funny. Time and date from one source only, time enough for changes, homey! Enslaved by our machines at last, we're talking Y2K's a fact? We'd wait for it to go away. We'd hold our nads and mewl or pray. We'd open up our bibles, read, perform again the evil deed. The message would be plain again, with torches, and with pitchforks -- friend! Change the bios, make it pay, Y2K could save the day -- killing billions in the crash millions starve on heaps of trash? Those still left are mad as hell -- you stole their dreams, on that they'd dwell. They'll drag you from appointed homes, and rend your clothes right from your bones. Where's their money, where's their will (?), and then you'll have to pay the bill! Lehmberg@snowhill.com You're going to wait too long to fix it, aren't you? When it is critical to fix you'll be able to drive up the price of your adjustments and ministrations, won't you? That tactic may blow up in your face. I really rather hope it does. You bastard. Restore John Ford. -- Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 25 Re: White House demonstration planned by ORTK From: MDJ50@webtv.net (Mike Jamieson) Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 10:49:13 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 02:35:13 -0400 Subject: Re: White House demonstration planned by ORTK From: "Steven Kaeser" steve@konsulting.com Subject: Re: White House Demonstration Date: Sunday, May 24,1998 08:39:04 -0400 >...the timing of this event will be in >the midst of a Presidential election. >....Republicans will be damning the > Democrats....I can just imagine the >press releases now as they tout that >this is an administration that appeals >to UFO-nuts >If someone uncovers a "smoking >gun" that will be accopted by the >media as valid, then such a demon- >stration would be valuable........ Thank you Steven for your thoughts. I think the timing would be more like the eve of the campaign--not in the midst--as it would be several months before the first primary. Also, I'm not so sure that the Republicans could succeed in representing our event as UFO-nuts in a show of affection for the administration (though I'm sure some of like and support the President). I pray that smokng gun surfaces and we can start learning the facts that have been covertly established on UFO reality. Perhaps the whole body of evidence can serve as our "smoking gun". Of course, the difficulty there is that is not as sexy as a dramatic revelation of confirming evidence. So a lot of hard work has to be done to prepare credible and responsible briefing summaries and other resources that effectively educate, and draw the interest of the press (and scientists, members of Congress,etc). You were correct to observe that the event was timed to coincide with the MUFON event. We wish only the best for MUFON. MUFON has been very important to educating the press and the public. It should be noted that our demonstration is totaly independent of MUFON. MUFON focuses on the critically important area of investigating the UFO mystery and does not endorse our actions (at least I think that is still the policy).
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 25 Re: Whitley Strieber [was: ...on CSPAN?] From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 12:29:29 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 02:27:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Whitley Strieber [was: ...on CSPAN?] > > >Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:53:17 +0100 > > >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > > >To: updates@globalserve.net > > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > I started with "Communion" and worked my way forward. Before > "Communion" I had no knowledge of abduction so I had no frame of > reference. I had no reason not to believe Streiber's story, and > up until now I still haven't seen any evidence to support > evidence that he wrote a story to make a buck. In '85-'87, there > was no preceived market for the story anyway. Well, his publishers thought there was. He got a $1,000,000 advance for Communion. I'm not saying this to cast doubt on Strieber, and certainly not to blame him for taking the money. But the combination of an abduction account and Strieber's established name -- plus the words "a true story" -- evidently convinced the publisher that the book would sell. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 25 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 21 From: Masinaigan <Masinaigan@aol.com> [Joseph Trainor] Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 12:44:22 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 02:31:19 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 21 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 3, Number 21 May 24, 1998 Editor: Joseph Trainor SATELLITE FAILURE CAUSES COMMUNICATIONS CHAOS On Tuesday, May 19, 1998, at 6 p.m., the satellite Galaxy IV suffered a failure in its onboard control system. The backup switch also failed, and the $250 million satellite rotated out of position, completely disrupting communications here on Earth. Owned by PanAmSat, Galaxy IV was launched in June 1993. It is positioned in a geosynchronous orbit 22,000 miles above Kansas. USA Today called the incident "the biggest telecommunications failure in recent years," adding that the breakdown "wiped out pager traffic, halted credit card transactions and knocked TV and radio stations off the air." Pager service to 45 million customers was lost when Galaxy IV rotated out of position. "Personal pagers use less than one percent of the capacity of the Galaxy IV satellite...The satellite's primary users are broadcast and cable TV companies and big telecommunications companies." "Galaxy IV remains in orbit but is no longer pointed at its target on Earth. PanAmSat, which is 81 percent-owned by Hughes Electronics, says an onboard navigational computer and its backup failed. It can't explain why." As of Friday, May 22, 1998, "PanAmSat still doesn't know why Galaxy IV's spin controller and backup failed. The satellite is beyond repair." All 600 stations of the USA's National Public Radio were knocked off the air when Galaxy IV went haywire. They were served by the two channels of NPR Satellite Service routed through Galaxy IV. Other affected radio broadcasters included KOA-AM in Denver, Colorado, KSJN-FM Minnesota Public Radio in Minneapolis, Chicago White Sox radio, KIRO-AM in Seattle, Washington, KEX-AM Trail Blazers Radio Network in Portland, Oregon, KGIL-AM in Los Angeles and all four channels of World Harvest Radio International WHRI-SW short wave. Television broadcasters affected included the WB, UPN and CBS networks, Reuters TV, Motor Racing Network, CNN Airport Channel, the Chinese Television Network in Hong Kong and Soldiers Satellite Network, the USA armed forces entertainment network. Private business TV stations such as Aetna, Microsoft, 3M and the Ford Motor Company's Fordstar service were also knocked out, as were the Ohio, Minnesota and Texas state lotteries. "Fred Landman, CEO of PanAmSat, knew he had trouble when one of his company's 17 satellites failed just after 6 p.m. Tuesday...About 90 direct customers of PanAmSat use Galaxy IV, so Landman was shocked when he learned 100 calls from the media had come in by 3 a.m. Wednesday. 'That was the biggest surprise,' he recalls." PanAmSat is currently retargeting and shifting customer traffic to other satellites in orbit. "We expect that within one week of the occurrence that virtually all service will be up in force," Landman said. (See USA Today for May 21, 1998, "Satellite's death puts millions out of touch," pages 1-B and 3-B. Also for May 22, 1998, "Satellite emergency a lesson in spin control," page 2-B. For more on strange events in the USA's heartland on May 19, the day of Galaxy IV's failure, see the related stories in this issue.) (Editor's Comment: If you were on a cell phone at 6 p.m. when Galaxy IV performed its unauthorized rotation maneuver, your voice message is now on its way to Alkaid, also known as Eta Ursa Majoris, and should arrive there in 2108, about 110 years from now.) FOUR UFOs SIGHTED OVER BLOOMINGTON, INDIANA On Tuesday, May 19, 1998, just after 1 a.m., ufologist Lynn H. Taylor was just outside his home in Bloomington, Indiana (population 60,633), checking out his videocamera, when he heard "the barking of excited dogs in the neighborhood, as well as the bellowing of unseen cattle in the area." "I had almost reached my house when I had to look back," he reported. "There was something there, all right. I could barely make it out. It was so low as it moved northward, just above the trees. All I could see was a very faint red glow. No other runnings lights, strobes, etc." "When I reached my house, I turned for one last look. There it was--a brilliant, swirling, multi-colored light floating in the same direction as the first, only closer to me. I quickly picked up my videocamera and began to record. I have witnessed this light many times before...I changed position several times as the object passed by, trying to record as much of its flight as possible before it moved behind some trees and out of sight." "A couple of minutes later, I saw another flying red object like the first" traveling toward the east. "I stopped and turned around to the west, to see another lighted object moving north...apparently following the previous three. Again, it was...red and barely detectable." Bloomington is on Indiana Highway 46 about 50 miles (80 kilometers) southwest of Indianapolis. (Copyright 1998 by Lynn H. Taylor. Many thanks, Lynn, for letting UFO ROUNDUP quote from your report.) HIGH-ALTITUDE UFO SEEN OVER HOWELL, MICHIGAN On Tuesday, May 19, 1998, at 10:31 p.m. (four and a half hours after Galaxy IV's systems failure--J.T.), Doug Parrish, Michigan director of Skywatch International, spotted "a point of light the size of a star moving slowly across the sky above Howell, Michigan." (population 8,184) "The altitude (elevation) of the light was approximately 81 degrees in the sky, almost overhead," Parrish reported. "Upon being spotted, the point of light instantly started to glow brighter, and, in less than two seconds, it became as bright as, if not brighter than, the sun at noon. Since it was only a point of light, it did not cast any appreciable shadow on the residential landscape." "Once I had acknowledged the light as having been seen, it started to diminish its brightness, and in a time span of five seconds, it had dimmed into invisibility. The light was moving slowly directly south. The actual observation lasted about ten seconds. No noise was heard and there were no running lights." Howell is located at the intersection of Oakgrove Road and Highway BL96, also known as Grand River Road, 55 miles (88 kilometers) west of Detroit. (Many thanks to Doug Parrish and Steve Wilson Sr. for this report.) UFO SIGHTINGS REPORTED NEAR PITTSBURGH Two UFO sightings were reported in western Pennsylvania the evening of Sunday, May 17, 1998. At 8:15 p.m., four people in Belle Vernon, Pa. (population 1,213) observed a UFO for 40 minutes. "They were looking in a north-northwest direction," reported Pennsylvania ufologist Stan Gordon. "The object was about 60 to 70 degrees elevation. (The UFO) First appeared as a brilliant star that appeared nearly stationary. Through binoculars and spotting scopes it looked like an 'illuminated donut.' There was something that appeared to be hanging down from the object. While they watched, it seemed to suddenly 'explode' into many small fragments and particles. And then a red sphere was observed which minutes later reportedly split into two smaller objects." Belle Vernon is on Interstate Highway 70 about 31 miles (48 kilometers) south of Pittsburgh. Also on May 17, at 11:50 p.m., an observer in Penn Hills, Pa. (population 51,430) spotted "two luminous objects" in the clear night sky. "One was moving and after a few minutes was gone from sight. The remaining object appeared to move in a swirl formation, emitting bright flashes of blue and red... It seemed as though it was rotating, giving off various light patterns" described as "bright colors of red, blue, green and white." "During the observation, the object appeared as a seeming oval shape with a light effect that separated the top and bottom halves...The object's light pulsated on and off, appearing to search. Then the object returned to its luminescent state. Almost ten minutes later, the object gradually moved in a direction to the north of the observer." Penn Hills is a suburb of Pittsburgh, located 13 miles (21 kilometers) northeast of the city. (Many thanks to Stan Gordon for these reports. Pennsylvania readers, if you have a UFO to report, call Stan Gordon's UFO Hotline at 1-724-838-7768.) NEW UFO SIGHTING ON FLORIDA'S GULF COAST On Tuesday, May 12, 1998, people in Fort Walton Beach, Florida (population 21,471), spied "a triangular shaped craft hovering over the Gulf of Mexico" just offshore, south of town. "Three lights were arrayed on all three points of the triangle." A bright beam of light was seen beneath the object, spotlighting the surface of the sea. Minutes later, the witnesses saw four U.S. Air Force jets approaching, and "the craft...instantly left the area." On Wednesday, May 13, 1998, the witnesses reported, "'frogmen' were seen in the area where the light had been shining down into the ocean." Fort Walton Beach is on Highway 98 about 35 miles (56 kilometers) east of the UFO hotspots of Pensacola and Gulf Breeze. (See Filer's Files #20 for 1998. Many thanks to C. Leigh Culver of ISUR and George A. Filer, Eastern director of MUFON, for this news story.) CINCINNATI POLICE IN HOT PURSUIT OF A UFO On Sunday, May 17, 1998, Kenneth Young, public relations director of Tri-States Advocates for Scientific Knowledge (T.A.S.K.), was listening to a police radio scanner at 5:30 a.m. when a most unusual call came in. Listening to 460.100 megaherz (MHz), Young heard that "a female resident had reported a very unusual event, claiming that there was an 'unknown object' with lights flashing on her front porch, near a plant." According to Young, cruisers of District 3 of the Cincinnati Police Department responded to the call. The police cruisers converged on a home in the 2300 block of Fairbanks Avenue, near Delhi, to investigate the reported incident. At 5:35 a.m., the scanner broadcast a report from an officer, "as they arrived there, 'the thing had disappeared.'" Young telephoned the Hamilton County Communications Center, "and they referred my call to the Cincinnati Police Department, where they confirmed for me that there was something reported by a citizen and District 3 units were dispatched to the scene." According to the officer Young interviewed, the woman "reported 'something flashing behind the potted plant on her front porch...with a bright flashing light.'" Cincinnati (population 364,040) is a large city in the southwestern corner of Ohio. (Many thanks to Ken Young of T.A.S.K. for this news story.) LOS ANGELES SUBURB SEES HEAVY UFO ACTIVITY For the past week, UFOs have been sighted repeatedly in Canoga Park, California, located on Highway 27, also known as Topanga Canyon Boulevard, a suburb 35 miles (56 kilometers) northwest of Los Angeles City Hall. On Sunday, May 10, 1998, at 9:30 p.m., Joanne Larue "saw a strange light above the San Fernando Valley, while traveling west on the Ventura Freeway (Highway 101). Flying at about a 10-degree angle of descent, at about helicopter altitude or lower, north of the freeway, was a green light, sort of like a traffic light." "I watched it traveling for about two seconds and then suddenly it disappeared into thin air. I was right near the Balboa Freeway exit, and both people in my car spotted it...Has anyone seen anything similar?" (Email Interview) On Saturday, May 16, 1998, at 9:17 p.m., Hank Turcotte had a strange sighting in Canoga Park. "I don't know what's going on lately," he reported, "Within the last two weeks, I have sighted ten different 'star-like' objects making their way across the night sky here." "This night I had a few friends over and asked them to be patient for a few minutes. Sure enough, at 9:17 p.m., three of us watched a star-like object making its way from the south-southwest to the north-northeast, passing in between the star Arcturus and the last star in the handle of the Big Dipper. The object was spotted straight above and then traveled in the arc I described and disappeared within 30 seconds into the haze of the evening sky at approximately 45 degrees (elevation). The object was Magnitude 4 brightness according to the constellation chart." "As my friends and I talked about it, my other friends said to look above us once again, and this object appeared directly above us and traveled north- northwest and disappeared into the cup of the Big Dipper. The object was a Magnitude 5 brightness but this one 'faded away' halfway into the cup. The sighting lasted 20 seconds." (Many thanks to Jim Hickman of Skywatch International and Errol Bruce- Knapp for this report.) HOVERING UFO SPOTTED OVER A TOWN IN SWEDEN On Wednesday, May 13, 1998, at 10:30 p.m., Mrs. Bergman and Mrs. Blomquist were standing near the docks in their hometown of Stromstad, Sweden when a flash of light out to sea caught their attention. The women described the UFO as "a large object floating 500 to 600 meters above the sea. It was elongated. The object was emitting a tremendous light like a great spotlight." The UFO let its bright beam drift along the sea to the shore. Then the beam played over the docks, the warehouse and the people in the area, including both women. "The object came from the northeast, but we were unable to guess its speed of approach," Mrs. Bergman reported. "The shape of the object was somewhat elliptical and it was luminous. There was no sound, not even when it departed." "It just hovered for a while," Mrs. Blomquist reported. "There was no trail or smoke, and the object headed northeast when it departed. The whole sighting took about ten seconds." "One second the object hovered almost above us," Mrs. Bergman added. "Then, in the next second, the object was not more (larger) than a star in the sky." Stromstad is on the Kattegat, on Sweden's west coast, approximately 190 kilometers (114 miles) north of Goteborg. (Email Interview) FRENCH COUPLE SIGHTS A UFO OVER NORMANDY On Wednesday, May 13, 1998, Robert Martel and his girlfriend stopped at a gas station in Verneuil, a city in the department Eure, in northwestern France. While he was filling the gas tank, Martel heard the roar of a jet afterburner. Looking up, he saw a jet interceptor of Armee de l'Air (French air force--J.T.) "pass at a very low altitude." Hours later, at 11:30 p.m., Martel and his lady friend were driving down a two-lane road between La Chapelle Montligeon and Mauves-sur-Huisnes in the department Orne et Basse Normandie, about 170 kilometers (102 miles) west of Paris, when sighted a UFO. "Suddenly, atop a small hill, I noticed an unusual object a short distance away, perhaps 300 to 500 meters," he reported. "At a low altitude, perhaps 30 to 50 meters. The speed of my vehicle was between 50 and 70 kilometers per hour (30 to 45 mph)." Staring at it through the windshield, Martel said, "That is what it is. But it's as white as a cloud. It's an OVNI." (French acronym for UFO) "I thought it would be interesting to close in and observe it a bit better," he added, "Unfortunately, the sinuous road swerved to the right, and I found that the object was no longer visible...But as soon as the road placed us more to the straight, the object was moving parallel to me." In vain Martel tried to point out the UFO. But "now it was perpendicular to us and was starting to move very rapidly. The object became increasingly difficult to observe. Soon it was a silhouette of a sphere on the horizon. Impossible to distinguish because of the color" which was the same color as the sky. (Merci beaucoup a Thierry Garnier pour ces nouvelles.) UFO FLIES OVER ADELAIDE IN SOUTH AUSTRALIA A UFO overflight was reported in Adelaide, capital of South Australia, on Monday night, May 18, 1998. According to Emma B., "An object was seen in the skies over Adelaide." The unknown object "was flying south and it was at about a 30 degree angle above the horizon and it moved from right to left. The witnesses have seen the (Mir) space station pass over, and it (the UFO) seemed much closer to the earth than this. It was the color of the stars and looked like something entering Earth's atmosphere" and "glowed like it was burning." (See Filer's Files #20 for 1998. Many thanks to George A. Filer for this news story.) from the UFO Files... 1931: WEIRD LIGHT FLASHES SEEN ON THE MOON During the next three weeks, UFO ROUNDUP will present three cases from the little-known Flap of 1931. Here's the first case, featuring Mr. and Mrs. N.J. Giddings of Riverside, California, one of the most unusual documented incidents of the pre-Roswell era. "During the evening of 17 June 1931, I was working in the yard near our home at Riverside, California, and happened to glance at the moon. It was an unusually fine, clearly outlined new moon, and as I stood looking at it, suddenly some flashes of light streaked across the dark surface but definitely within the limits of the moon's outline." "Since this was a phenomenon which I had never seen before, I continued to watch it and saw similar flashes streak across the moon again in a moment or two." "Without mentioning what I had seen, I called my wife's attention to the new moon. She admired it. When I asked her to watch it closely to see if she noticed anything strange, she said, 'Oh, yes, I see lightning on the moon,' adding that it appeared to be confined to the moon." "We watched it for some 20 or 30 minutes during which the phenomenon must have occurred at least six or seven times. The facts were recorded in my notebook as of approximately 7:40 p.m. 17 June 1931. At the time, I was inclined to attribute the phenomenon to some sort of sunlight reflection from mountain peaks on the moon or possibly some sort of electrical activity. I wrote the Mount Wilson Observatory regarding the phenomenon, and the reply very courteously discounted my observations." (See Science, volume 104, page 146, for August 9, 1946. Reprinted in THE UNEXPLAINED: A SOURCEBOOK OF STRANGE PHENOMENA by William R. Corliss, Bantam Books, New York, NY, August 1976, page 124.) FUN UFO WEBSITES: The British UFO Research Association (BUFORA) is back online with a new, improved website. Check it out at http://www.bufora.org.uk For additional UFO reading, drop in at the Magonia ETH Bulletin. They're at http://www.magonia. demon.co.uk/ethbull/index.html Artist Jeff Westover, who does sketches of aliens for Michigan MUFON, has a website, Alien Alley, with detailed drawings of all the aliens reportedly seen by UFO witnesses. Alien Alley is at this URL, http://www.alienalley.com Arline La Zolle has a UFO website up and running. It's called D-Hopper's World of the Paranormal, and it features UFO pictures, sightings reports and other news. Drop in at http://www.geocities.com/area51/ chamber/5781/index3.html One of your editor's favorite websites is Bill Corliss's Science Frontiers. I can't recommend it highly enough. Got an hour to spare? Visit http://www.knowledge.co.uk/frontiers/ and learn about the strange phenomena encountered by scientists themselves. The big news this week is what's happening at our parent site, UFO INFO. Webmaster John Hayes added search engines to the site a few days ago. Now you can use these search engines to hunt up items in both the UFO ROUNDUP and Filer's Files archives. Come and try them out. Just drop in at http://ufoinfo.com. Back issues of UFO ROUNDUP are available at our webpage. We're at http://ufoinfo.com/roundup On this date, May 24, in the year 289 A.D., two teenaged Christians, Donatien and Rogatien, were killed by their religious enemies in Nantes, France. The martyrs are known as the Children of Nantes. Unfortunately, their tragic deaths were only the beginning of a series of religious massacres in that city. On April 24, 1572, two hundred Huguenots were slaughtered on St. Bartholomew's Day. On November 16, 1793, 4,800 Roman Catholics, including 158 elderly priests, were drowned in the river Loire on the orders of an alcoholic Illuminatus named Carrier. Between November 7, 1942 and June 10, 1944, the Nazis carried out their long-running pogrom against Nantes's Jews. Is Nantes all finished with those senseless religious massacres? I certainly hope so. Join us next weekend for more saucer news from "the paper that goes home--UFO ROUNDUP." See you then. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1998 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO ROUNDUP on their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 25 Chat with Dr. Horace Crater & Dr. Stanley McDaniel From: "Yvonne Hedenland" <vonni_h@email.msn.com> Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 18:54:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 02:59:29 -0400 Subject: Chat with Dr. Horace Crater & Dr. Stanley McDaniel Cydonia, NASA & The Future of Science As May comes to a close and the Mars Global Surveyor comes out from behind the sun, many are left with questions regarding the 3 images obtained last month and where the future of Cydonia and Mars Anamoly research are headed. Join us for a special chat on Tuesday, May 26th at 6pm, PT. with Dr. Horace Crater, quantum physicist and President of the Society for Planetary SETI Research, (SPSR), along with Dr. Stanley McDaniel, founder of the SPSR and co-editor of The Case for the Face. This chat is available at http://forums.msn.com/ufo The Briefing Room chat can be accessed by any IRC client. The chat server name is publicchat.msn.com and the room or channel name is #briefing. The Crater & McDaniel Netshow Audio Interview is available now at http://forums.msn.com/ufo
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 25 Registry of UFO Collections From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 16:31:25 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 03:00:43 -0400 Subject: Registry of UFO Collections Greetings List Members, We have started on the task of gathering information for a Registry of UFO Collections which will become a computer data bank. The announcement of the Keyhoe Archives contains the type of information we seek. We welcome information on collections in institutions and in private hands. Eventually, we plan to place the public information on a website. E-mail information to jan@cyberzone.net or to Project 1947, P. O. Box 391, Canterbury, CT 06331, USA, Tel # 860-546-9135 Provisionally, we have decided on four categories for collections: I. Collections available. This will be the main category. Information on known collections, location, content, and accessibility will be contained in these entries. II. Negative Results. (Collections lost, sold, transferred or destroyed.) For example: earlier we posted the results of an inquiry to June Larson. She retained no material having given it to Dr. James McDonald, Ivan Sanderson, Dr. Herbert Strenz, and the Library of Congress. III. Confidential data (privacy protection is required.) Certain UFO researchers have fallen on difficult times or want to be left completely alone. Such information will be compiled, but will only be available by request from serious researchers on approval of the registry's access committee. (A small group or researchers will act on such requests.) (See below.) IV. Requests for assistance (Collections, items, or people which researchers are currently seeking.) We also intend to post requests from researchers for specific information. The last time I consulted the listing of personal papers available at archives, universities and libraries there were less than a dozen UFO entries. If you have visited or know of such collections, please pass the information to us. Best regards, Jan -- Jan Aldrich Project 1947 http://www.iufog.org/project1947/ PRIVATE LIST. Several people have indicated that they have material they are willing to have registered for other researchers to use in very limited circumstances. Those wishing privacy would in some case be willing to have contact with these researchers through third parties such as the registry committee. If the above applies your collection, please indicate this by marking it "PRIVATE LIST." OTHER LANGUAGES. Descriptions of collections in languages other than English are acceptable. Please include a brief English summary, also.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 25 Cydonia Opinion Poll From: JJ Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.net> Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 17:43:12 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 14:16:19 -0400 Subject: Cydonia Opinion Poll What is your opinion on the new MGS images of Cydonia? Participate in our Cydonia opinion poll at : http://www.mufor.org/mars.html#poll Regards, JJ Mercieca Malta UFO Research http://www.mufor.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 25 The Sheffield Incident From: AlienHype1 <AlienHype1@aol.com> [Max Burns] Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 13:06:00 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 14:26:03 -0400 Subject: The Sheffield Incident To All Lists >From Max Burns Just to let all readers know that for those of you who have paid any attention to the pulling and pushing over the Incident over the Peaks Sheffield 24th March 1997. My Updated report which includes Detailed Maps of the area with Flag points so you can see where the sightings and all the action occurred can be viewed at http://www.skipnet.com/~visitations/sheffield/ http://www.sightings.com/. Study the true evidence about this incident and make your own minds up thats all I ask.. All Comments Welcome Needless to say Mr Clarke/Roberts/Wooton/Mathews no need to comment im all ready fully aware of your opions. Max Burns
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 25 Re: Filer's Files #20 From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Mon, 25 May 98 10:36:01 PDT Fwd Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 14:18:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Filer's Files #20 > From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com> [Robert Gates} > Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 00:58:05 EDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Filer's Files #20 > > Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 09:52:58 +0100 > > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Pres. Carter > > > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > > > From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> > > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Filer's Files #20 > > > Date: Fri, 22 May 98 10:30:09 PDT > Don, > The main so called investigative source for the story "Carter > saw Venus" as I recall comes from one of Phil Klasses skeptical > buds Robert 'they saw stars' Scheaffer? who blowmouthed that > theory to death in his book. > In the same book he also blowmouthed to death his theory that the > Exter NH sighting of 1965? was stars blah blah. > Cheers, > Robert Hi, Robert, About Sheaffer (not Scheaffer; the poor guy has the most consistently misspelled name in ufology): I am certainly no admirer of his, but I operate on the principle that even a stopped clock can be right twice a day. Cheers, Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 25 Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted - Part 1 From: "Kenny Young" <task@fuse.net> Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 11:53:57 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 13:57:14 -0400 Subject: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted - Part 1 [See: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/mar/m15-005.shtml and: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/mar/m15-002.shtml -- ebk] Part 1 of 2 Jerry Black Replies to Bruce Maccabee's comments on The Open Letter to the Gulf Breeze Investigators, Entitled: "Looking Back: A Review of Gulf Breeze" Let me begin by advising our readers that I will be condensing portions of my original letter that Mr. Maccabee has seen fit to address, and at times will be condensing his comments, to make this a sharper, more expeditious letter for presentation. As opposed to Mr. Maccabee, I stand behind my investigations thoroughly. I am not afraid, nor do I hesitate, to answer any and all questions that anyone might have about the work I have done on any given case. That is why I put up my name, address, and phone number, for everyone to feel free to make comments to me about what I have written for posting to the Internet. ISSUE #1: I said in my original letter, "In this dissertation we will look back and review [strictly] the Ed Walters Gulf Breeze case." Mr. Maccabee comments, "Immediately Mr. Black gets off on a 'wrong foot' by intentionally ignoring all of the other sightings...including seven on the day when Ed took his first photos." Here Mr. Maccabee tries to use the sightings of other people to substantiate Ed Walters' photographs. Any good investigator knows that each individual UFO report is handled and evaluated on its own merits. So the fact that seven people saw a UFO on the same night does nothing to prove, or disprove, Ed Walters' photographs. However, it is interesting that a neighbor of Ed Walters, Mr. Morris, was interviewed by Rex Salisberry, and claims that he never saw any UFOs on the night of November 11, 1987, even though he was sitting outside that evening. But, in keeping with fairness to both sides, we still must say that possibly Mr. Morris could have stepped inside for a little while, to watch a television program, or something else. Maybe he wasn't looking in the right direction. So the fact that Mr. Morris did not see a UFO still does not prove or disprove Ed Walters' photographs. So we make note of both things; the fact that seven people had UFO sightings on the same evening, and the fact that Mr. Morris claims that he never saw any UFOs that evening, even though he was sitting outside. In fact, as it turns out, Mr. Morris says he has never seen a UFO at all, from his home, 16 months after that initial sighting by Ed Walters. However, what is interesting, is that, with Ed Walters taking numerous photographs, one would think that, after the first couple of UFO encounters at his home, Ed would summon someone like Mr. Morris, or the neighbor on the other side, to come and look at this with him, so he would have someone to support his claim of seeing these UFOs. Strangely, this was never done. At no time did Ed contact any neighbor, to allow them to see the same thing he was seeing, which would help substantiate his photographs. That I sincerely do find interesting. ISSUE #2: I am a little bit at a loss to explain Mr. Maccabee's comments here... However, in my original letter, I said that Bob Oeschler admittedly accepted $5,000.00 from Ed Walters very early on in this situation. I believe that this was totally wrong. There was nothing, whatsoever, that Bob did for Ed Walters to earn himself $5,000.00, which could have been viewed as a help in the investigation of this case. Mr. Maccabee comments, "WRONG! And Mr. Black has been informed of this before. He sent me a tape in November, 1991. In that tape Mr. Black asserts that I have been paid $5,000 by Ed Walters for photographic analysis work before the book was published. I responded to that tape on November 27, 1991 that I was not paid $5,000 for photographic analysis work.... (at any time!)." All I can say is that Mr. Maccabee is correct. On my tape of November, 1991, I did incorrectly state that he had received $5,000.00 from Mr. Ed Walters. I corrected that mistake a few months later. As you, the readers, can see, I state that Bob Oeschler admittedly accepted $5,000.00 from Ed Walters. I did not say that Mr. Maccabee did. So,I'm a bit confused about what Mr. Maccabee's point might be. I corrected my initial mistake in the open letter, Looking Back: A Review of Gulf Breeze. I am at a loss as to exactly what his complaint is here. Possibly a lapse of memory. ISSUE #3: Let's refer again to my comments about Mr. Bob Oeschler receiving $5,000.00 from Ed Walters for doing some photographic work. Mr. Maccabee comments again on that by saying, "Therefore, when Mr. Black says that Bob Oeschler did nothing of value to the investigation which could be worth $5,000.00, he, Black, is viewing this from the point of view of his own agenda, which should be obvious to any of the readers." My response to that is, in Mr. Maccabee's reply to me, telling me what all Mr. Bob Oeschler did with the photographs, he himself states this: "Bob learned from Polaroid how to clean the pictures, and made some of the best copies ever made." He, Bruce Maccabee, was supplied with a set of those copies. My original comments stand, because, with all of this excellent work done by Mr. Oeschler for Mr. Walters, securing some of the best copies ever made from the originals, why, then, wasn't Mr. William Hyzer given a set of those copies as well? Mr. Maccabee was, and I'm sure Jeff Sainio probably was. Why wasn't Mr. Hyzer extended the courtesy of receiving one of those sets? He was given "pictures of pictures." Mr. Walt Andrus took photographs of the originals and gave them to Mr. Hyzer. So, again, my question still stands: What did Bob Oeschler do, to be worth $5,000.00, that helped the investigation of this case? He did nothing but supply Ed Walters' supporters with the better copies. He did not supply the same quality of copies to anyone who could have conducted an objective and independent investigation. ISSUE #4: Mr. Maccabee refers again to comments again made about Bob Oeschler and the $5,000.00 he received for the photographic work he did for Ed Walters. Mr. Maccabee made a comment about this which I included in an article that I did for UFO Magazine about the Gulf Breeze case. Mr. Scott Smith, a writer from out of town, did a story on Gulf Breeze. After reviewing the massive amount of literature available on both sides of the issue, Mr. Smith concluded that the arguments against Ed were weak, at best, and probably wrong. I was told that UFO Magazine was not happy with Mr. Smith's conclusions, having fully expected that Mr. Smith's research would "sink the Gulf Breeze ship" once and for all. Mr. Maccabee states that UFO Magazine published a rebuttal of sorts, which was my own two-part article on the Gulf Breeze case. He states, also, that Mr. Scott Smith did an in-depth investigation of the Gulf Breeze case. My response to Mr. Maccabee is that I do not feel that Mr. Smith did an in-depth investigation. He is not a UFO investigator. He did not talk to me, he did not talk to Barbara Becker, he did not talk to Rex Salisberry, he did not talk to Hugh Jones, the polygraph expert, he did not talk to Billy J. Rakes, the president of the polygraph association, he did not talk to any of the children that stated that Ed Walters used double exposure techniques with a Polaroid camera to play jokes on them, he did not talk to Tommy Smith, nor did he interview Mr. William G. Hyzer to obtain his expert opinion. Basically, what Scott Smith did was take the information readily available and write his story from that. He did not do a thorough investigation of the material before him. He did not check into the polygraph tests, or he would have realized that they were, in fact, self-sponsored by Ed Walters. He took Mr. Maccabee's word that the photographs were genuine. So Mr. Maccabee, do not try to tell these readers that Scott Smith did an "in-depth" investigation of this case. I personally talked to Scott, and, basically, he was given some available information on the case, but did no real investigation. Mr. Smith, with no experience in the field of UFOlogy, just wrote a story on the case; it was not a thorough investigative review. ISSUE #5: I made some comments about Jeff Sainio that Mr. Maccabee took issue with. I stated that he was basically an unknown until the Gulf Breeze case came along. Suddenly, Mr. Maccabee had this photographic expert in the wings that would make a revelation to everyone on the case. In talking with Jeff Sainio, it appeared to me that he was extremely jealous of Mr. Hyzer and his son, James. I surmised this because the statements that Jeff made were totally in left field. Any competent photographic analysis person would never have made some of those statements. Mr. Maccabee's comments in regard to that are as follows: "I will let Jeff Sainio defend himself. However, I am amused at Black's claim that 'the statements that he (Sainio) made were totally in left field.' I am amused because based on my correspondence with Black I wonder whether his competence for photographic analysis even lies within the ball park, so how would he know whether Sainio was correct or not?" Let me just state this: First, I do not pretend to be a photographic analysis expert, like Mr. Bruce Maccabee does. I do not pretend to be able to analyze physical material objects, nor do I have the ability to analyze soil samples or grass samples. I have, therefore, established good working relationships with experts in those fields. There is a photographic lab in Alexandria, Virginia that I can use whenever a decent photograph or video is given to me. Here in the Cincinnati area, there is a gentleman, Mr. Boggs, that will conduct studies on any soil or grass samples that I need to have tested, where a UFO may have allegedly landed. In Huber Heights, near Dayton, Ohio, there is a professional lab which can analyze any physical object that I may turn over to them, whether that be an alleged implant, an alleged piece of a UFO craft, or any other object. Again, I do not claim to be a photographic analysis expert. The comments I made to and about Mr. Jeff Sainio were based, not on photo/analytical ability, but on common sense. In a conversation that I had with Mr. Sainio, he said that he could detect luminosity coming down the road on photo #19, the famous "road shot," just from looking at the photograph lying in front of him. I stated to him that Mr. Hyzer had second and third generation copies. To this, Mr. Sainio replied: "I also am stating that, using second and third generation copies, on photo #19, I can see, with my naked eye, the luminosity on the road. I could even show this to Mr. Hyzer if I could meet with him." My comments to him were, "You understand that Mr. Hyzer has already stated that, using the most up to date photographic analysis equipment, he sees no luminosity on the road in photo #19." Readers, keep in mind that Mr. William G. Hyzer, and his son, James B. Hyzer, had a total of over 60 years experience in photographic analysis work, as of the year 1992. So my comments against Mr. Sainio had nothing to do with any photo/analytic ability, as Mr. Maccabee tries to allude to. It has to do with plain common sense. How could Jeff Sainio see luminosity on the road on photo #19, with his naked eye, when William and James Hyzer, using state of the art equipment, viewing the same generation of copy, could not detect it? I leave it up to you, the readers, to determine who is telling the truth, or who is more credible. ISSUE #6: Mr. Maccabee continued on my remarks about Jeff Sainio: "Yet Black never discusses the real issue: Sainio worked with the original photo and published the results of his image enhancements which show brightness on the road. This rejects the double exposure explanation that Jerry Black needs in order to explain the photo." I retained the services of Mr. William G. Hyzer for the Mutual UFO Network. I felt we needed an independent photographic analyst to evaluate the shots. Mr. Hyzer assured me, from the beginning, that he would have never worked with the second and third generation copies that Walt Andrus sent him, if he did not feel that he could make a proper analysis. With that in mind, it makes no difference whether Mr. Hyzer had the originals or not, or whether Mr. Sainio used the originals or the second and third generation copies. Mr. Hyzer told me that digital enhancement is a very powerful tool. In a letter concerning digital enhancement sent to the editor of the MUFON Journal, Mr. Hyzer wrote: "There is a certain commonality that exists between statisticians and digital image processing aficionados. Tell me what you want them to hear, and I will produce a statistic to support it. Explain to me what you want them to see, and I will create an image to buttress that perception. The power to alter images is a great concern among forensic image examiners, and by those who depend upon their image to convey impartial information regarding a scene or an object. Elements within an image can be fabricated, enhanced, distorted, shifted, cloned, erased, and/or transferred to another image with a precision that virtually defies detection. Those who doubt the creative potential of digital image processing should see the film Terminator II. "This is not to imply that Mr. Jeff Sainio is such an aficionado or possesses either the facilities or the expertise required to produce the spectacular special effects of Terminator II. But digital imaging and processing, even in the primitive form, is a highly manipulative process, capable of changing an image into something it isn't, in order to highlight certain features, and/or subdue others, at the personal discretion of the operator." Mr. Hyzer obtained all of the information he needed from second and third generation copies to make an evaluation, or he would have never made that evaluation. So the fact that Jeff Sainio had originals to work with makes no difference in this particular issue. Mr. Hyzer's reputation in the photographic analysis community is such that he would never have jeopardized it by making an evaluation that he could not back up at a later date. The point, simply, is that Mr. Hyzer's evaluation stands. You, the readers, have to decide... Is Mr. Hyzer correct in his evaluation? Or is Mr. Sainio correct in his evaluation? Keep in mind, please, that Jeff Sainio was the State Director for MUFON of Wisconsin, with 12 years experience, and Mr. Hyzer was an independent investigator, with 38 years experience, along with his son, James (who also worked on this project), with 20 years experience. ISSUE #7: I made some comments in my original letter about a person who gave me some information concerning Ed Walters' frequent trips to the office of The Gulf Breeze Sentinel. This person told me that, during almost every one of those trips, Ed Walters and Duane Cook, the editor, were constantly laughing very loudly, as though someone had just told a very good joke. This occurred during the time of the "Believe Jane" and "Believer Bill" pictures, and for a while thereafter. Mr. Maccabee's comments are: "Regardless of laughter, Duane Cook did not know that Ed was the photographer until the end of December, 1987. It is also amusing to note that Duane's own mother and stepfather were two of the early witnesses to the object Ed photographed. And besides, what does laughter prove, anyway? Ed likes jokes an I presume Duane does too." My response is as follows... You, Mr. Maccabee, make the assumption that Duane Cook did not know that Ed was the photographer until the end of December, 1987. We do not know that to be a fact. It has always been my contention that this whole thing started out as a local joke, to help increase the circulation of The Gulf Breeze Sentinel. That would mean that Duane Cook was likely in on it from the beginning. Obviously, if he was in on it from the beginning, then possibly he could have had his parents step up and say that they were also witnesses to the objects that were appearing in the paper at that time. That does not mean that they were bad people, they were just trying to help their son, who had a newspaper that was failing. The joke, then, in my opinion, got out of hand. The local Gulf Breeze investigators began believing the case, and ran with it. As far as the laughter is concerned, one would not expect a man who had recently allegedly been picked up by a UFO, some ten feet off the ground, in a blue beam of light, and then dropped to the ground, to be in a consistently jovial mood. This is not human nature. That made me particularly suspicious, as it did the person who made these comments to me, about the constant laughter between Duane Cook and Ed Walters at that particular time. As I said earlier, this went on for weeks. ISSUE #8: In my original letter, I made some comments concerning Mr. Bruce Maccabee, as follows: "Bruce Maccabee has tried to wear many, many different hats during this investigation. He tries to pretend that he is a UFO investigator -- in which he failed. He tried to pretend he was a photographic analyst. We now know (thanks to Mr. Hyzer and his son) that Bruce Maccabee and Jeff Sainio do not even begin to qualify as professional photographic analysts. We have proven that now. Of course, they may have been following an agenda of their own." Mr. Maccabee's comments are these: "I recommend anyone who wants to discuss details of the photoanalysis of several of the sightings should read UFOS ARE REAL, HERE'S THE PROOF. I can also supply anyone with a copy of my paper presented at the MUFON Symposium in 1988 which presents a detailed discussion of the analysis of Ed's early photos plus a long discussion of hoax methods. I'll be happy to compare my capability and experience in analyzing UFO photos with Mr. Hyzer or anyone else....... dueling analysts, if you wish!" In order to have "dueling analysts," you need two. In this particular case, we only have one: Mr. William G. Hyzer. Mr. Maccabee is fully aware, when he makes the comments that he would be happy to compare his capability and experience in analyzing photographs with Mr. Hyzer, that Mr. Hyzer will no longer work on UFO photographs, because of the way he was treated by MUFON. Mr. Hyzer has clearly shown that Mr. Maccabee has no photographic analysis ability whatsoever. In Mr. Hyzer's preliminary report, he stated that all of the photographs he analyzed exhibited characteristics of double exposure. Why has Mr. Maccabee never made even one comment that would indicate that there was possibly some problem with the photographs? Everything Mr. Maccabee had to say was positive. Everything Mr. Sainio had to say was positive. There was no reference to even one tidbit of information which would give anyone an indication that something could be wrong with the photographs. Yet Mr. Hyzer found that all of the photographs showed signs of double exposure. One has to ask oneself, why would Mr. Hyzer and his son, independent analysts with no agenda, find evidence of photographic hoaxing, when Mr. Sainio and Mr. Maccabee, known UFO proponents, find none? It is quite clear that either Mr. Maccabee and Mr. Sainio have no photo/analytical ability whatsoever, or they were following an agenda established either by themselves, or by the MUFON organization. At this time I will present to the readers the qualifications of Mr. William G. Hyzer, which, because of the dispute above, are extremely important to be known. As of roughly 1992, his credits and achievements were as follows: Academic Degrees: Graduate of University of Minnesota, Electrical Engineering, 1946 Graduate of University of Wisconsin, Physics, 1948 Profession: Consultant in Engineering and Applied Science (since 1953) Awards: Named Fellow, Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers, 1965 U.S. recipient of International DuPont Gold Medal Award, 1969 Named "Engineer of Distinction" by Engineers Joint Council, New York, 1974 Named "1976 Outstanding Chapter President," Wisconsin Society of Professional Engineers, 1976 Named Fellow, Society of Photo-Optical Instrumentation Engineers, 1977 Named "1979 Outstanding Professional Engineer in Private Practice," Wisconsin Society of Professional Engineers, 1979 U.S. recipient of Coleman Memorial Award, British Institute of Physics, 1980 Awarded "Honorary Master of Photography" Degree, PP of A, 1981 Certified Photogrammetrist (ASPRS), 1988 Named Fellow, American Academy of Forensic Sciences, 1989 Publications: {More than 500 published patents, books, and papers, including:} The regular column, Scientific Instrumentation, in Photomethods Magazine, 1956 -- Engineering and Scientific High Speed Photography, Macmillan, 1962 Photographic Instrumentation Science and Engineering, U.S. Government Printing Office, 1965 The regular column, Notes on Photonics, in Research and Development Magazine, 1971 -1978 The regular column, Instant Photoinstrumentation, in Optical Engineering, 1976 - 1979 Two chapters, High Speed Photomacrography, and Instant Photomacrography, in Photomacrography, Focal Press, 1987 The chapter, Forensic Photogrammetry, in Forensic Engineering, Elsevier, 1989 Positions Held: Chairman, High Speed Photography Committee, Society of Motion Pictures and Television Engineers, 1964 - 1966 Vice President of Photoinstrumentation Affairs, Society of Motion Pictures and Television Engineers, 1966 - 1969 President, Photo Data Institute, Janesville, Wisconsin, 1968 -- Board Member, Redlake Corporation, Santa Clara, California, 1968 - 1970 Board Member, Research and Development Magazine, 1970 - 1978 Member, Advisory Board, Milwaukee Area Technical College, 1970-1983 Chairman, Janesville Building Board of Appeals, 1973 - 1976 Chapter President, Wisconsin Society of Professional Engineers, 1975 - 1976 Chairman, Photosonics Achievement Award Committee, Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers, 1975 - 1978 Board Member, Technical Council, Society of Photo-Optical Instrumentation Engineers, 1976 - 1981 President, Carcajou Shooting Club, Lake Koshkonong, Wisconsin, 1977 - 1978 Member, Citizens Advisory Committee for Janesville Area Transportation System, 1978 - 1979 Judge, IR-100 Awards, 1978 - 1987 Board Member, Industrial Research and Development Magazine, 1978 - 1988 Vice President, Wisconsin Society of Professional Engineers, 1979 - 1980 President, North American Photonics Association, 1980 - 1982 Board Member, Imaging Technology in Research & Development Magazine, 1983 -85 Member, Advisory Board, Rochester Institute of Technology, Rochester, NY, 1984 - 1988 U.S. National Delegate, International Congresses on High Speed Photography and Photonics, 1978 - 1984 and 1986 Additional Biographical Sources: World Who's Who in Commerce and Industry Personalities of the West and Midwest Who's Who in Engineering Engineers of Distinction Men of Achievement Dictionary of International Biography, Volume XVII Mr. Hyzer has also been a guest lecturer at numerous colleges, universities, professional organizations, service groups, and corporations, from 1953 through the present. He has even been sought out to give lectures for prestigious international photographic, engineering, and optical organizations, in Germany, Japan, China, the USSR, Singapore, South Africa, and Sweden. I invite both Mr. Maccabee and Mr. Sainio to list and expand on their qualifications in the field of photographic analysis. In this way, our readers can weigh and evaluate those qualifications, in comparison with those of Mr. Hyzer. So doing, we will let our readers be the judge. ISSUE #9: In my original letter, I discussed the video taken by Duane Cook of Ed Walters, during the time when his head was allegedly hurting tremendously. They went out in the pickup truck, with Ed's head still hurting, with the video tape was running, and Ed feeling that there was a UFO in the area. Mr. Maccabee's comments are as follows: "When I first heard it I had to decide whether this could actually be happening or if it was all an act by Ed. If an act it would have been a tremendous feat of extemporaneous acting in concert with a person... Duane Cook editor of the newspaper, .... who doesn't know this is an act and herefore has no prescribed lines and therefore whatever he (Duane) says or does in response to Ed's actions cannot be predicted in advance." Most people could put on a very good acting job, for a given, very short, period of time. In this case, I think it would certainly have been within the range of Ed's ability, or anyone's ability, for that matter, to act as though his head was hurting, using profanity, and give the appearance that they are "literally going crazy." Also, Mr. Maccabee has again made the assumption that Duane Cook did not know that this was an act. He does not know that for sure. As I said before, Duane Cook could have very well been involved in this from the beginning. None of us know for a fact that Duane was not aware of everything that was going on that night. The possibility of that looms as large as any other scenario in this matter, and in fact seems likely. Mr. Maccabee's comments continue on, to state: "One does not have to be an acting 'talent scout' to recognize the high quality of the 'performance' if that's what it was. I subsequently concluded, after may hours of conversation with Ed, that it was very unlikely that he could have carried this off as an act." Mr. Maccabee is now trying to represent himself as a psychologist. What next? ISSUE #10: I stated in my letter, "Mr. Maccabee, so far as I know, your are not a professional talent scout or director, and are not qualified to judge anything like the above. Anybody could act like that for a short period of time, sir. You, too, are an embarrassment and a disgrace to the UFO community." Mr. Maccabee's comment was: "I guess we'll see who's the embarrassment." My comment to that is it is obvious that you are the embarrassment in the Gulf Breeze/Ed Walters case. And, I add further, a continual embarrassment in the Guardian case, which you supported on national television, and which now has been proven to be a hoax by MUFON in Canada. So it is you, Mr. Maccabee, who continues to be an embarrassment to the UFO community. ISSUE #11: I said in my original letter, "I assume, Bruce, that you're still with the Fund For UFO Research. You should not be. I do not think that anyone there has the guts to kick out of FUFOR, as they should, any more than Walt Andrus has the courage to kick you out of MUFON." Mr. Maccabee's comments: "You'll have to take this up with the new Chairman, Don Berliner." Bruce, like I told you before about the "Old Boys Club," you and Don Berliner are both members of that club, so I guess my wishes won't come true, and you'll still remain a member of FUFOR. ISSUE #12: I stated the following in my open letter: "Mr. Hyzer clearly demonstrated to us, Mr. Maccabee, that you have no talent whatsoever as a photographic analyst." Mr. Maccabee's comment: "He did? How did he do that? Or is this just your wishful thinking?" Mr. Maccabee, in a letter that you wrote to me a few years ago, you stated that Mr. William B. Hyzer had more talent as a photographic analysis person than yourself. Mr. Hyzer has said that Photo #19 is definitely a hoax; and you have concluded that none of the photographs have any indication of being a hoax, then certainly Photo #19 is not a hoax... I guess you've answered your own question. You have already stated that he has more ability than you. He differs in his answer from you. The readers can see the qualifications of Mr. Hyzer above. I think I've answered your question, too. ISSUE #13: Comments from my original letter are as follows: "So, to write in this new book, that it can't be a flare, because of this or that -- you can use all of the high technology terms at your disposal, but it makes no difference, because Mr. Hyzer has shown us that you don't have an ounce of true ability in your body to analyze such photographs." Mr. Maccabee comments that I have basically embarrassed myself, because of my lack of photographic knowledge. He discusses his work on "Bubba," and determining that "Bubba" was definitely not a flare. Those of you interested in reading more about that can refer to his book UFOs Are Real, Here's the Proof, on page 193, as Mr. Maccabee states in his reply. While he is correct that I have no knowledge whatsoever about photographic analysis work, what I have done -- and Mr. Maccabee does not advise you of this here -- is to make a challenge to Mr. Maccabee, back in January of this year, in a taped message to him. The object that he used in his experiment in Gulf Breeze was a red object, which I don't believe was actually shown on national television. He took some photographs of some flares and determined from that, by using a special camera, that the red object seen over Gulf Breeze definitely was not a flare. My challenge, then, was for us to use the famous video shot of Bubba over the bay, taken by a Houston television station crew, somewhere around 1991, which clearly shows a large white object with a piece of material falling from it, into the water. This is a well-known shot, and was shown on many television programs around the country back in the time frame we are discussing. I told Mr. Maccabee that we could use this particular video clip, which I have a copy of. I proposed that we send this to the lab that I mentioned earlier, and have them analyze it. The fee would be quite substantial, and would range anywhere from $2,000.00 to $3,000.00. I told Mr. Maccabee that, when this independent lab made an analysis of the Bubba shot, if it turned out that the object was definitely not a flare, I would pay for the entire analysis. If the analysis, on the other hand, indicated that the object was, or could be, a flare, Mr. Maccabee would then be responsible for all of the charges incurred in the analysis. I gave Mr. Maccabee 30 days to respond to my taped challenge. As of the dictation of this letter, he has apparently chosen not to accept that challenge. ISSUE #14: I said in my original letter: "Mr. Maccabee, you also recently lied to Ms. Barbara Becker, about Mr. Hyzer. When she confronted you with the issue of why Mr. Hyzer never received the original photographs, you stated that it was 'because he wanted them in such a hurry.' You, sir, are a liar. I told Barbara Becker that, she e-mailed you back that response, and you decided to change your mind, saying that you didn't really know what happened. This was another lie, Mr. Maccabee. You know why he never got the originals, as well as I do. Ed Walters did not want anyone like Mr. Hyzer, an objective person, that Ed didn't have in his back pocket, to receive any original copies." continued in Part 2 -- UFO Research http://home.fuse.net/task/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 25 Re: Whitley Strieber From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 10:41:08 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 14:13:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Whitley Strieber > From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net> > To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 12:29:29 -0400 > > > >Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:53:17 +0100 > > > >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > > > >To: updates@globalserve.net > > > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > > I started with "Communion" and worked my way forward. Before > > "Communion" I had no knowledge of abduction so I had no frame of > > reference. I had no reason not to believe Streiber's story, and > > up until now I still haven't seen any evidence to support > > evidence that he wrote a story to make a buck. In '85-'87, there > > was no preceived market for the story anyway. > Well, his publishers thought there was. He got a $1,000,000 > advance for Communion. Like I mentioned earlier Greg, I'm on the fence about his motives, but I'm still sucker enough to want to extend the benefit of the doubt to people until I exhaust the possibilities. Lately though I have become less charitable. As for the million dollars, was that not for the paperback rights after "Communion" [the hardcover] became a best seller. It was my understanding that he had trouble finding a publisher for it, but this is something I remember from way back in the late 80s and might be totally out of whack. > I'm not saying this to cast doubt on Strieber, and certainly not > to blame him for taking the money. But the combination of an > abduction account and Strieber's established name -- plus the > words "a true story" -- evidently convinced the publisher that > the book would sell. Yeah, but enough to advance a million [1987] dollars? Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 25 Re: White House demonstration planned by ORTK From: "Steven Kaeser" <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 08:46:05 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 14:08:23 -0400 Subject: Re: White House demonstration planned by ORTK I really don't want to get into a long debate about this, since I know that my thoughts won't sway have great impact on ORTK's plans. But I have a couple of points that I have to make here: >From: MDJ50@webtv.net (Mike Jamieson) >Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 10:49:13 -0700 >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Update Re: White House demonstration planned by ORTK >From: "Steven Kaeser" steve@konsulting.com >Subject: Re: White House Demonstration >Date: Sunday, May 24,1998 08:39:04 -0400 >>...the timing of this event will be in >>the midst of a Presidential election. >>....Republicans will be damning the >> Democrats....I can just imagine the >>press releases now as they tout that >>this is an administration that appeals >>to UFO-nuts >>If someone uncovers a "smoking >>gun" that will be accopted by the >>media as valid, then such a demon- >>stration would be valuable........ >Thank you Steven for your thoughts. I think the timing would be >more like the eve of the campaign--not in the midst--as it would >be several months before the first primary. Also, I'm not so >sure that the Republicans could succeed in representing our event >as UFO-nuts in a show of affection for the administration (though >I'm sure some of like and support the President). While the election is held in November, and the Party conventions will indeed be a month away, the PRIMARIES will have been underway for several months, with much of the Press concentrating on multiple campaigns all around the country. In case you've never taken part in the feeding frenzy that the press becomes involved in during a campaign (and I have literally worked on boths sides during a campaign), there is always a demand for some "new angle" or "hook" that you can use to attract the interest of the public. Perhaps the media would simply ignore the demonstration and not ask any questions of the candidates in the field, but I somehow doubt that it. How it then is handled would depend on the response, and I somehow doubt that it woud sympathetic. >I pray that smokng gun surfaces and we can start learning the >facts that have been covertly established on UFO reality. If a "smoking gun" surfaces, the demonstration would not really be needed. >Perhaps the whole body of evidence can serve as our "smoking >gun". Of course, the difficulty there is that is not as sexy as a >dramatic revelation of confirming evidence. So a lot of hard work >has to be done to prepare credible and responsible briefing >summaries and other resources that effectively educate, and draw >the interest of the press (and scientists, members of >Congress,etc). All of this has been done in the past. Briefing documents with the "best cases" has been presented to each Member of Congress and the Administration. It was also presented to members of the Press, and Business Leaders, and anyone else that was deemed important. Follow up phone calls have been made, and every effort has been made to try and interest their attention in this matter in an on-going basis since then. While not sanctioned by the UFO Coalition, which undertook the effort just mentioned, Dr. Stephen Greer held his "Briefings" in Washington last year, and invited every Member of Congress, as well as other selected government officials, to attend. All of this was designed to make government leaders aware of the best information available, and we have all witnessed how successful that effort has been (at least in public). But you mention the preparation of "credible and responsible briefing summaries and other resources that effectively educate, and draw the interest of the press (and scientists, members of Congress,etc)." A demonstration, or march, is not the normal manner in which such materials are distributed. I assume that more is planned than a simple oval march in front of the White House to garner public support (which is the true purpose of such demonstrations). >You were correct to observe that the event was timed to coincide >with the MUFON event. We wish only the best for MUFON. MUFON has >been very important to educating the press and the public. It >should be noted that our demonstration is totaly independent of >MUFON. Timed, I'm sure, in hopes of attracting some of the MUFON attendees into joining in the effort. As you are aware, there are many government employees who don't want to be seen by their bosses on television in a demonstration, which has limited the scope of such activities in the past in DC. >MUFON focuses on the critically important area of investigating >the UFO mystery and does not endorse our actions (at least I >think that is still the policy). I suspect you are correct. Again, I support your goals, but question your methodology. Steve Kaeser
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 25 Re: Pres. Carter From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Mon, 25 May 98 10:33:03 PDT Fwd Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 14:20:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Pres. Carter > From: DRudiak <DRudiak@aol.com> [David Rudiak] > Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 01:55:52 EDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: Pres. Carter > > Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 09:52:58 +0100 > > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Pres. Carter > > > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > > > From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> > > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Filer's Files #20 > > > Date: Fri, 22 May 98 10:30:09 PDT > > >Re your remark that no serious ufologist disputes that Carter saw Venus. > >> I wonder about that. I remember writing his sighting off as well, > >> but then some time afterward wondered if I might have been hasty > >> in light of his education and naval experience [which for the > >> life of me I can't recall, but remember at the time as being > >> impressive]. Was Carter not a scientist of some sort, physicis > >> perhaps. He was not only a peanut farmer. > Correct. Carter had a degree in nuclear physics and served as an > officer on US nuclear submarines. I suspect he had also seen > Venus a few times down on the peanut farm. > >From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> > >Date: Sat, 23 May 98 11:24:41 PDT > >Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 21:45:48 -0400 > >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #20 > >Here is my entry "Carter Sighting" in The UFO Encyclopedia: > >2nd Ed., p. 174: > >As they stood outside waiting for a Lions Club meeting to start, > >Gov. Jimmy Carter and 10 residents of Leary, Georgia, noticed an > >unusually bright light at about 30 degrees' elevation in the > >western sky. Carter was to recall it appeared slightly smaller > >than the apparent size of the moon., It "came close, moved away, > >came close, then moved away," he reported. He estimated it to be > >"maybe 300-1000 yards" away. It "moved to [a] distance[,] then > >disappeared" ("Jimmy Carter's," 1977). The sighting took place on > >January 6, 1969, between approximately 7:15 and 7:30 p.m. > >Except for this sketchily rendered last detail, this object > >sounds very much like Venus, > Venus?! Did Jerry Clark say Venus? There are many details in > this report that don't sound anything like Venus: You're free to think whatever you wish about what Carter saw. I still think he saw Venus. (For some impressive examples of conventional stimuli imaginatively reinvented by witnesses, see Allan Hendry's The UFO Handbook.) If you feel otherwise, God bless you. I do confess it's hard for me to understand why anyone would get worked up about this monumentally unimpressive sighting, which didn't have any impact even on the other witnesses -- which certainly has not been the case in multiply witnessed observations of REAL UFOs. As we know from UFO history, even trained observers can sometimes be mistaken about what they have seen in the sky. Carter, however,was not even a trained observer, just another lay witness with no particular education in what is out there (conventionally) in the heavens. Let's talk about sightings worth discussing. This sure ain't one of 'em. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 25 Re: Pres. Carter From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 10:22:43 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 14:12:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Pres. Carter > From: DRudiak <DRudiak@aol.com> [David Rudiak] > Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 01:55:52 EDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: Pres. Carter > > Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 09:52:58 +0100 > > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Pres. Carter > > > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > > > From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> > > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Filer's Files #20 > > > Date: Fri, 22 May 98 10:30:09 PDT > > >Re your remark that no serious ufologist disputes that Carter saw Venus. > >> I wonder about that. I remember writing his sighting off as well, > >> but then some time afterward wondered if I might have been hasty > >> in light of his education and naval experience [which for the > >> life of me I can't recall, but remember at the time as being > >> impressive]. Was Carter not a scientist of some sort, physicis > >> perhaps. He was not only a peanut farmer. > Correct. Carter had a degree in nuclear physics and served as an > officer on US nuclear submarines. I suspect he had also seen > Venus a few times down on the peanut farm. Thank you Dave for the detailed breakdown of Carter's sighting and clarifying his qualifications. Further to what you have related below, I might add that my information suggests that in his early years in the navy, before subs, he was in cruisers or destroyers and stood watches as a navigation officer, taking star shots with a sextant etc. For this reason as well I've never been able to buy the Venus explanation. I've found that too many times, in their haste prove how discriminating they are, "ufologists" blow off sightings reports simply because Venus is present in the sky at the time. This is like saying that suspect "A" did not do a bank robbery despite 7 witnesses saying he did, because Jack the Ripper was in the bank at the same time, so it had to be him, even though the MO doesn't match. > >From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> > >Date: Sat, 23 May 98 11:24:41 PDT > >Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 21:45:48 -0400 > >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #20 > >Here is my entry "Carter Sighting" in The UFO Encyclopedia: > >2nd Ed., p. 174: > >As they stood outside waiting for a Lions Club meeting to start, > >Gov. Jimmy Carter and 10 residents of Leary, Georgia, noticed an > >unusually bright light at about 30 degrees' elevation in the > >western sky. Carter was to recall it appeared slightly smaller > >than the apparent size of the moon., It "came close, moved away, > >came close, then moved away," he reported. He estimated it to be > >"maybe 300-1000 yards" away. It "moved to [a] distance[,] then > >disappeared" ("Jimmy Carter's," 1977). The sighting took place on > >January 6, 1969, between approximately 7:15 and 7:30 p.m. > >Except for this sketchily rendered last detail, this object > >sounds very much like Venus, > Venus?! Did Jerry Clark say Venus? There are many details in > this report that don't sound anything like Venus: > 1. Venus never appears to be the "size of the moon" or "slightly > smaller than the apparent size of the moon." > 2. Venus doesn't loom dramatically in size as described by > Carter. > 3. Venus doesn't disappear by seeming to move into the > distance. At the reported time of the sighting, Venus would have > remained well-elevated and visible in the sky. It would not have > disappeared. It fact, it didn't set until about 9:20. You > can't have it both ways, with Venus supposedly being brilliantly > bright and otherwise highly visible (to supposedly account for > the report), yet supposedly disappearing as well. > Lesser discrepancies are: > 1. Venus was in the southwestern, not western sky (between 237 > and 240 degrees azimuth, not 270). > 2. If the time was correct, the elevation was between 21 and 24 > degrees, not 30 degrees. > 3. According to my planetarium programs, Venus wasn't even at > its brightest on this date, much less an "unusually bright > light." Carter's report said that the "10-12 men all watched it. > Brightness attracted us." None of these people had never seen > Venus in the sky before? > >frequently mistaken for a UFO in > >part because of an optical illusion which causes stationary > >objects to appear to move back and forth. > What Jerry Clark is describing is the autokinetic effect, but > this does nothing to explain the Carter report. The autokinetic > effect has an isolated point of light in a dark background > appearing to move erratically. It occurs when there is a lack of > surrounding visual cues. > But what Carter described was something that seemed to > dramatically change in size and/or distance. Or as his UFO > report described it, "came close, moved away, came close, moved > away," changed in size from "brighter/larger than planet to > apparent size of moon," and eventually seemed to move to the > distance and disappear. > Furthermore, the very fact that Carter compared the thing's > apparent size and brightness to visible planets, such as Venus > (Saturn was also visible), suggests that he wasn't confusing it > with Venus. He felt this thing was both brighter and larger > even when it was at its SMALLEST. > Now there are only two visual physiological things I can think of > that might cause a virtual point of light like Venus to appear to > change in size like that. One is a disruption of the central > visual brain, in which the person loses their ability to maintain > size constancy. Objects seem to be constantly changing in size. > There are a few extremely rare cases of organic brain damage > causing this (such as in a small stroke), and perhaps some > hallucinegenic drugs such as LSD can cause this as well. Jimmy > Carter dropping acid? I think we can safely rule this > explanation out. > The other would be very extreme fluctuations in the focus of the > eye. I could imagine this happening with somebody who was > falling down drunk. But Carter was not intoxicated. Except for > maybe an occasional Billy Beer or glass of wine, he was a > teetotaler, if anything. Furthermore Carter was about 45 at the > time. He didn't have a whole lot of accommodation (focusing > ability) left (as people in their mid to late 40's can attest). > So it becomes very questionable whether Carter, even if straining > mightily, could have defocussed Venus into a blur that appeared > to be about the size of the moon. > Frankly, a better case for Venus probably could be made by > dusting off one of Menzel's old standbys -- the atmospheric lens. > But darn, even if you buy that, it still doesn't explain how > Venus could seem to move off into the distance and permanently > disappear when it was still up there for another two hours. > In any case, forget autokinesis. There is no way it could have > anything to do with it. Autokinesis has to do with perceived > lateral motion, NOT perceived changes in size, distance, or > brightness. > > Indeed, the only real > > investigation of the incident, conducted by debunker Robert > > Sheaffer, established Venus' presence in the section of the sky > > Carter was observing. > As we all know, Venus is visible in the evening or early morning > most of the year, making it a convenient debunking explanation > for just about everything (e.g., Sheaffer also used it to > "explain" the 1966 Portage County high-speed police chase). Just > because Venus is up there in the general vicinity doesn't mean it > automatically explains a case. In the Carter report (or Portage > County), it certainly does not. > >In common with an earlier reporter (Tiede, > >1978), Sheaffer found that the other witnesses scarcely > >remembered the incident (Sheaffer, 1981). > Just because the others didn't care doesn't mean the incident > wasn't worthy of note or anomalous. Certainly Carter went out of > his way to later file a UFO report and pursue the matter of UFOs > when he became President a few years later. > It would be interesting to know how the other witnesses > remembered it. I suggest to you and others that the reason the others did not remember it is that they were not qualified enough to be discriminating. To Carter this object might have been far enough outside his own point of references that he was immediately taken with it. Many of us have multible witness cases where maybe one out of three thought the sighting really remarkable but only because that one witness had greater knowledge of what should, or should not be in the sky at the time. I'm really quite amazed that the investigators in the area did not do a better job of looking into this sighting both at the time, and some of the heavyweights did not review it years later considering the position that Carter rose too. Ufology is always looking for credible witnesses. How about a US President. If time has proven anything, Carter has been propably one of the most honorable of all of the presidential line. i think he deserves better than that tired old standby explanation- "Venus". Don
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 25 Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted - Part 2 From: "Kenny Young" <task@fuse.net> Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 12:16:15 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 14:02:06 -0400 Subject: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted - Part 2 [See: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/mar/m15-005.shtml and: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/mar/m15-002.shtml -- ebk] Part 2 of 2 Mr. Maccabee's comments are as follows: "Gee, so many lies around here... you'd think I was qualified to be President. Anyway, I told Ms. Becker what was my recollection of what happened when Hyzer and Andrus reached some agreement as to what pictures Hyzer was willing to look at. What I told Becker was based on my recollecion of what Andrus told me many years before, namely that Hyzer wanted the pictures quickly so Andrus sent what he had, namely 8 x 10 copies that Andrus had made from negatives which he, Andrus had obtained by photographing Ed's photos." It is funny, Mr. Maccabee, that your memory always serves your purpose so conveniently. You knew, from the beginning, that your good friend Ed Walters did not want anyone but you and Jeff Sainio to have copies of his photographs for analysis. I do not buy your story, or your bad memory, at all. ISSUE #15: I stated, in my original open letter, "I still wish you would tell us, Mr. Maccabee, what the fee was that Ed Walters gave you in December of 1989 (according to the post card that I have from Ed Walters), besides the $20,000.00 that you got for your chapter in the book. You could have, I imagine, just about bought a home for what you got in December of 1989, plus what you got for your "work" in the book. This whole issue of the money tells us that you were not in a position to be truly objective in regard to this case." Mr. Maccabee's comment to that was, "Dear Jerry, if I'm a liar, then you're a jerk. In fact, maybe you're a jerk anyway!" Don't blame me, sir, for what your friend, Ed Walters, said. I have a postcard from him where he tries to deny that you had gotten any money for the book. On the other hand, though, he admits that he gave you a "professional fee" in December of 1989. Now in your 12-page letter to me, early on in this investigation, you state that you did receive money for your chapter in the Gulf Breeze/Ed Walters book in January of 1989. Accordingly, I can only conclude that you have received two payments for your work in the Gulf Breeze UFO sightings. If I am wrong, take it up with your friend Ed Walters. He is the one that sent me the postcard. If he has his dates confused, he himself has created the problem -- not me. ISSUE #16: I stated further, in my original open letter, "There are so many things in this case, Mr. Maccabee, that as an intelligent person, someone with a college education, like yourself, should have given you cause to just stop and say, "wait a minute." You should have thought to yourself, "Stop, another red flag," but you did not. So I have to assume one of three things: 1) Either you were following an agenda, set by Mr. Walt Andrus; 2) you were following a financial agenda, set by Ed Walters and yourself; or, 3) you are completely, totally, incompetent. That's all I can make out of this." Mr. Maccabee's reply: "If I'm totally incompetent then you're a.... oh well, I said it before. Evidently you don't remember that I pointed out in my Nov 1991 letter to you that I started off being as skeptical as or more skeptical than most. Like many people my first thought was of Meier. I started off assuming the whole thing was a hoax." Mr. Maccabee continues: "Then, after months of analysis, investigation, data collection by me and others I realized that there was just too much to it for Ed to pull off the whole thing and the photos were too difficult for him to hoax,....especially the stereo photos." Mr. Maccabee, we're getting tired of constantly hearing about your skepticism as you came into the case; about how you came into this expecting it to be a Billie Meier type of scenario... You say, though, that "after months" of investigation, you realized there was too much evidence to support the case. There is no evidence to support the case. None whatsoever. Ed's polygraph tests were self-sponsored. The PSE test that he took was self-sponsored. There were so many red flags abounding in this case, and you ignored every one of them. The photoanalysis work you did was completely inept, as Mr. Hyzer has effectively demonstrated. So what were you trying to accomplish in the Gulf Breeze case? That is what everyone wants to know. Even some of your friends are wondering. What was your agenda in Gulf Breeze? Why couldn't you see all of these red flags that everyone else saw? Many other competent investigators certainly saw them. Ed Walters stumbled all over himself in this case, but not even one time during his stumblings did you stop to take another look. This appears, frankly, to be incompetency on your part. You insinuate that people are getting tired of hearing how Ed Walters is a complete idiot... He's worth $2,500,000.00, Mr. Maccabee. One does not get to that level of assets by being a complete idiot. If we were to believe you, he's lucky if he knows how to hold on to a camera, much less use it. I say again, you are a disgrace to the UFO community. ISSUE #17: Once again referring to my open letter, I said: "You were told, just as was Walt Andrus, about Peter Newman. You assured us that he was mistaken. That's what you said, 'He's mistaken.'" Your reply: "Yeah, mistaken." This, Mr. Maccabee, tells us again that you have never objectively looked at this case. Any UFO investigator would have gone back and interviewed Peter Newman. Any time something has come up with this case that does not fit your scenario, or does not lend credence to this case, you simply ignore it. Don't you have the fortitude to go back and call Peter Newman, to see if this was, indeed, a mistake? What would you call this, other than a one-sided investigation? When something pertinent to the investigation is brought to your attention, you don't bother to check it out. Trust me, when something is brought to my attention that casts doubt on a case, I will check it out. "Yeah, mistaken." That's all you can say. When are you going to get the guts, Mr. Maccabee, to follow up on Peter Newman? ISSUE #18: I made a statement in my open letter to the affect that Mr. and Mrs. Thomas have stated that the model was not for their house plans. Mr. Maccabee's reply: "Gary Watson, a realtor, investigated the Walters sightings and analyzed the Lynn Thomas story and the Volker house plan 'explanation' etc., and concluded that the paper strip in the model did not fit the Volker house plan but did agree in slab area and living area with the numbers on the Thomas house plane which inmplied that the model itself was a hoax." Supporters of Ed Walters have always claimed that someone planted the model in the attic to discredit Ed Walters. There is no evidence whatsoever to support that. In fact, the evidence indicates just the opposite: A: Frances, Ed's wife, claimed that the neighbor across the street told her that there was a strange car parked in front of the house, with out-of-state license plates. The people from that car attempted to enter the attic of the house through the garage. (There was a staircase that came down from the attic in the garage.) When Rex Salisberry contacted the people across the street from the old Walters residence, who had to be the people Francis was speaking of, as they were the only neighbors who would have had a clear view into the garage, they stated in a signed letter for Rex that they had never seen anyone tamper with the Walters home. B: Ed Walters claimed, early on, that the model was lying on top of the insulation. When confronted with Mr. Robert Menzer's statement, that the object was buried under three or four inches of insulation, Ed denied that he had said that. It is extremely hard to believe that someone would risk being arrested and going to jail, by breaking into an unoccupied house, going up to the attic, and placing a model, that might never be found, under three or four inches of insulation. In talking with Mr. Robert Menzer, he advised me that, if he had known where the shutoff valve was for the water, simply by either asking Ed or another neighbor, he would have found out that the shutoff valve for the water was buried in a black box in his front yard. If he knew that, he would have never gone up into the attic three times, in his search for the shutoff valve. Therefore, the model would not have been found for years and years, if ever. Thinking realistically, and using common sense, there would have been no reason for anyone to have "planted" a model in the attic, under three or four inches of insulation. So the evidence supports that the model was almost certainly placed there by Ed Walters, probably to hide it from visitors who were coming to his home at the time of the alleged sightings. When Craig Meier and the Pensacola News Journal confronted Ed about the model, he went to the newspaper office and discussed the situation with the Managing Editor. The Managing Editor asked Ed Walters, at that time, to take a polygraph test or a PSE test. Again, as Ed has done on other occasions, he refused to take the polygraph or PSE tests. Once more, this leads to suspicion against Ed Walters. When I contacted Sara Menzer, she told me that when Ed was at their home, and saw the model, which was being viewed by other investigators, he asked her if he could have it. She said that she did not want to give it up to anyone that would make it appear that she was being partial to one side or the other, and said she would keep it. One would wonder, really, what Ed would want with the model that was causing so much trouble. Of course, maybe he just wanted to add it to his collection. ISSUE #19: I stated in my original letter, "To get back to you, Bruce Maccabee, you should do what your friend, Bob Oeschler, did, and retire from UFOlogy." Mr. Maccabee commented, "Thanks for the advice... but I'll stick around, whether you like it or not!" It makes no difference whether you stick around or not, Mr. Maccabee. Most of the reliable investigators in UFOlogy will not use you anymore for photographic analysis work. You do not realize how many calls we have had, asking for the name of a good photoanalyst -- even people that have turned to you in the past. But because of Gulf Breeze and Guardian, a lot of people are disgusted. Not long ago a friend said an associate of his was going to send a video to Bruce Maccabee. I wished him good luck, he asked what I meant, and I explained my reasons. The video tape ended up going to the lab on the east coast, instead of to you. I tell you this only to demonstrate the fact that a lot of people now question your credibility. So stick around if you want, and continue to collect your lecture fees and symposium fees, whatever. I'm not sure what you have to say that anyone would want to pay money to hear, but I guess there are still people out there that really don't know what's going on in UFOlogy, and are willing to listen to anything. Lots of luck to you, in that regard. Mr. Maccabee, some of the errors that were made, that propagated erroneous information in this case, can be directly attributed to you. For instance, as I brought up in my original open letter, there was the Nimslo sealed camera... Your original analysis of ten photographs revealed, you said yourself, that the object was only 40 inches long, and 40 feet from the camera. In my letter, I stated, "Ed Walters said that it must have been a mother ship, that everybody in Gulf Breeze should have seen it. Did that give you pause? Did you think, 'Now wait a minute, these are pictures that Ed Walters never saw before he handed them to us. How could he make a statement like that?'" Mr. Maccabee's comments were: "Ed's testimony was obtained before the stereo photos were developed. He said he had the impression that the object was far away. It went on the other side of some trees in the area. Hence he thought it was big. However, Frances, looking at it from another point of view felt that it was relatively close and therefore not so big. When the photos were analyzed the distance came out in the range 40-70 feet. When the distance from Ed's location where he took the photos to the tree the object went behind was measured it was found to be about 40 ft. The most convincing thing about the stereo photos was when this very unusual object was again photographed along with the more common type Ed had photographed in a stereo pair of photos on May 1, 1988." Mr. Maccabee, you must think all of the readers, not to mention myself, are idiots. Let me stage this story for the readers... Ed Walters was given a sealed camera and told to use that camera to take photographs the next time he saw a UFO. He took ten pictures of an object some days later. He then returned the camera to MUFON. In front of the news media, he told everyone, "It must have been a mother ship. Everyone should have seen it." His wife, Frances, said, "No, Ed, it was much smaller than that." When the film was developed, it turned out that the object was 40 to 70 feet from the camera, as Mr. Maccabee has stated. It also turned out that the object was only 36 to 40 inches long, which Mr. Maccabee has neglected to say in his comments at that particular time. So, readers, here is what we are asked by Mr. Maccabee to believe. Ed Walters had already stated that the object must have been a "mother ship," an object alleged to be at least 300 feet long, before the photographs were developed. Ed said this, even though the object was in front of him, no more than 70 feet away, and even though it went behind a tree. Yet the evidence indicates that the object is only about 40 inches long. We are asked to believe that Ed Walters made a miscalculation of over 298 feet in his assessment, even as close as the object actually was, only 70 feet. This is one of the red flags that Mr. Maccabee has totally ignored. You insult our intelligence. Let me explain to the readers, instead, what actually did occur here, and the way you should have looked at this. Ed Walters was confronted, for the first time, with taking photographs of a UFO that he would not be able to see, or to manipulate, before he had to hand the camera over to MUFON. The camera had been sealed, and a test photograph had been taken at the beginning of the film. Ed realized at that point that he did not know how this small 36 inch to 40 inch model that he had was going to show up on the Nimslo camera. Would it appear large? Would it appear small? He wasn't sure, because he would not be able to see the photograph before the camera was turned over to MUFON. So Ed and Frances talked it over. He decided to say that it was an extremely large object, like a mother ship, and Frances would say that it was much smaller. That way, in effect, they were covered, either way the object actually appeared on the film. Do you, Bruce, realize how ludicrous it is for you to ask intelligent people to believe that Ed Walters could not tell the difference between a 300 foot object, at 70 feet away, as opposed to a 40 inch object, at 70 feet away? No one is going to buy that argument. You have again made a ridiculous statement, about it going behind a tree, and Frances being at a different angle. This one thing, this glaring evidence, should have stopped you dead in your tracks. But it did not. Instead, you said something to the effect of "Well, we've just got a probe here. It looks like Ed Walters has photographed, for the first time, a very small probe." END OF INVESTIGATION. I note here that you are also surprised at the fact that this same object, that he took a photograph of with the sealed camera, showed up again in a photograph he took later, on May 1, 1988. What is so surprising here, Bruce? He used a 36 to 40 inch model for the sealed camera. He just used the same model again on May 1, 1988. What is so surprising about that? ISSUE #20: I stated in my original letter, "In this new book, Mr. Maccabee, you state that Bubba is definitely not a flare. What are those pieces of material falling off of the object? Is this some kind of signal that it's getting ready to take off? Is that what we are supposed to believe, Mr. Maccabee?" I further stated that Mr. Hyzer has shown us that Mr. Maccabee is not a qualified photographic analyst. Mr. Maccabee's comments are as follows: "You seem to be looking to Mr. Hyzer to save your rear end from my photo analysis. However, there are probably DOZENS of qualified people "out there," even some reading these internet posts, who could comment on my analysis of the Bubba vs Flare using a diffraction grating (uh, oh, that technical term again) to produce the spectrum." Mr. Maccabee, I do not need Mr. Hyzer to "save my rear end." He has already nailed yours to the wall. As for the "tests" you performed involving the red light that you call Bubba, against some flares, let's make sure that the readers know who helped you with the test. I believe it was Ed Walters that took the photograph of the red light in the sky that you refer to as Bubba, and who also took the pictures of the flares, to make the comparison. Isn't that like having the fox guard the henhouse, so to speak? My challenge to you, Mr. Maccabee, is merely to put up or shut up. We cannot use your "red light," which could have been anything. Was that the same light that the Houston television crew videotaped on the beach in Gulf Breeze? Was it the same type of light? I seriously doubt it. To regain some credibility, you need to step up and use the clip that we discussed here earlier. Will you accept that challenge? What happened between you and Ed Walters, in your "tests," is not even viable. Taking a photo of some light in the sky, then of flares, for comparison, mean nothing, especially because Ed Walters was involved. It is quite clear that you either do not understand, or worse, disregard, what "independent investigation" means. You do not use the principal, the person you are investigating, to assist you in any tests, or in any other way. ISSUE #21: I stated in my open letter, " Why couldn't you guys have gotten into a boat, gotten underneath this object, taken some good photographs, and probably even recovered some of the material that was being dropped every time that it was seen? None of you guys tried to do that, because you didn't really want to find out what it was." To which Mr. Maccabee responded, "How do you know what the Gulf BReeze Research Team tried to do? You weren't there! Actually the airplane method was investigated but found to be too expensive for a zero budget project considering that the airplane might have to be flying for several hours every night for a week or more to have a good chance of seeing something... and even then the airplane might be miles away from the object at the time it appeared. AS for chasing in a boat... again no one could predict where these things would be. Also, many were over land. And most were too short to mount a real 'chase' before it disappeared." Mr. Maccabee, I know that you did not do this, because it was never reported in any literature on Gulf Breeze. So I'm certainly aware that you never made any attempt to secure a plane or a boat whenever Bubba showed up. According to Blanton Pugh, nearly every time a national news crew was known to be in town, Bubba would show up. Based on that, after the first couple of times, you certainly could have scheduled a plane or boat to be rented, so that, when Bubba did show up, you could have gotten a closer view of the object, and find out what this material was that was falling into the water, or on land, as you would like to say. But you didn't try to do that. You are insulting our intelligence when you give us the excuse that there was a "zero budget." With MUFON's membership larger than it ever had been, in 1991 and 1992, there was no budget for the biggest case (according to Walt Andrus) in 50 years? You could not afford $300.00 or $400.00 for plane rental of a few hours? No, you didn't want to get any closer to Bubba, to find out. That is what the real issue is here. It was more profitable for MUFON, and for yourself, to keep people coming to the bridge for two years, having symposiums and whatever else, to raise money, than it was to find out the truth. Of course, I may have to back off of the statement above... Knowing that the news media was coming into town, renting a plane may not have been a good idea. We know that the Gulf Breeze "investigators" always informed Ed Walters of everything that was going on. So perhaps Bubba would not have showed up after all, if Ed realized that a plane or a boat would be ready; maybe Ed would not have sent any "Bubbas" up. This is conjecture, but definitely a thought to consider, Mr. Maccabee. ISSUE #22: I stated, "Ed Walters has been a liar about the Gulf Breeze case from the beginning. We will expose Mr. Ed Walters for exactly what he is, one of the biggest -- not the best, by far, because he has made so many mistakes -- hoaxers in this century. Again, I say, not the best, but the biggest. And that's only because you guys made him the biggest." Mr. Maccabee replies: "Strong words, I would say.....from one of several people who have had it in for Ed and other Gulf Breeze witnesses for 6 or 7 years now...... Strong words from one who has so far failed to prove a hoax..." Mr. Maccabee, we have proven this case to be a hoax. Mr. Hyzer has proven this case to be a hoax, conclusively. He has put his reputation on the line, and stated that photograph #19 is a double exposure. Are you still going along with Walt Andrus' contention that it is merely opinion? It is not an opinion, it is a fact. Mr. Hyzer has proven that it is a hoax. The evidence supports it, just as all of the available evidence on this case belies its true nature as a hoax. If you do not want to acknowledge that, that is your business. I thank everyone for their time in reading this. Regards, Jerry Black A NOTE ABOUT JERRY BLACK Mr. Jerry Black has been researching and investigating UFOs in a scientific and objective manner for the past 39 years. He spent four and a half years re-investigating the Ed Walters/Gulf Breeze case, with experienced investigators Rex Salisberry, Barbara Becker, and Zan Overall. Mr. Black invites your comments on the above. He can be reached at the following address and phone number: Jerry Black 6276 Taylor Pike Blanchester, Ohio 45107 (513) 625-2613 NOTE: Permission is granted by the author to reproduce this article in its entirety, in electronic form. Please contact the author for permission to reproduce segments only. -- UFO Research http://home.fuse.net/task/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 25 PROJECT-1947 - Project Sign Site From: slk <slk@EVANSVILLE.NET> [Francis Ridge] Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 18:06:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 08:37:05 -0400 Subject: PROJECT-1947 - Project Sign Site Greetings List Members, It is with great pleasure that I announce the creation and sponsorship of the new web site called Anatomy of a Project: SIGN FIRST OFFICIAL USAF INVESTIGATION of UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS Wendy Connors is the director of the PROJECT SIGN RESEARCH CENTER and will have a very exciting and fully illustrated report available soon. In the meantime the site will always be under construction and linked from the NICAP site or available at: http://www.evansville.net/~slk/Sign.html It was a pleasure setting this up for you, Wendy. This site is very important and extremely interesting for serious researchers. Sincerely, Francis Ridge NICAP Site Coordinator
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 25 SPSR Reports Results of Cydonia Image Analysis From: "Yvonne Hedenland" <vonni_h@email.msn.com> Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 07:31:57 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 08:45:31 -0400 Subject: SPSR Reports Results of Cydonia Image Analysis On May 26th and 27th, Members of the independent research team of the Society for Planetary SETI Research (SPSR) will be presenting their first round of findings regarding the MGS image analysis of the Cydonia Region to the American Geophysical Society Meeting. These results may reveal unexpected new developments which could support NASA's continued study of The Cydonia region on Mars. You too can be on the ground floor with the UFO Forum as these intriguing results are reported live by several of the SPSR team in exclusive audio interviews and a live chat on Wednesday, May 27th at 7pm, PT. The UFO Forum has covered prior developements extensively in their "Eye on Cydonia" section, where you can find recent chat transcripts and Netshow audio interviews of several SPSR members, including articles and detailed information about SPSR. This chat is avalilable at http://forums.msn.com/ufo The Briefing Room chat can be accessed by any IRC client. The chat server name is publicchat.msn.com and the room or channel name is #briefing.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 25 Re: UFO Over Tipperary From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 13:19:50 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 08:16:00 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Over Tipperary From: The Tipperary Star via the online edition of the Munster Express (Republic of Ireland). URL: http://www.munster-express.ie/opinion1.htm ******* 22 May, 1998 TALES OF THE TELLURIANS UFOs over Tipperary? You may recall that, some weeks ago, I mentioned agency reports that commercial airline pilots and personnel at a military radar base had supposedly observed an unusual craft over the North Sea which they believed had to be a UFO. I am very sceptical about such matters and tend to make fun of them but, in the interests of balance, I feel bound to mention a story from the front page of last week's Tipperary Star. A couple, described as "highly respected members of the community" told the newspaper they saw an object in the sky between Derrynaflan and Killenaule on the night of February 28th. last. Because they did not want to face ridicule and be the butt of local jokes they decided to remain silent about their experience but, once they heard a description of the object seen over the North Sea, they decided to come forward because their "UFO" was almost identical. They said they clearly saw the UFO hovering at what appeared to be about 400 feet above the ground. The ship was approximately 250ft. wide and 100ft. high. It had lights, three on one side and two on the other, and had panels with vertical lines through them as distinct from windows. The husband and wife said there was no sound at all from the object which, at first, moved very slowly but then accelerated so fast it disappeared in an instant. Make of it what you will. <snipped>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 25 Salty Traces Hint At Europa's Ocean From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 13:25:02 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 08:14:17 -0400 Subject: Salty Traces Hint At Europa's Ocean >From MSNBC's site. URL: http://www.msnbc.com/news/167378.asp Stig ******* Salty traces hint at Europa=92s ocean=BF REUTERS WASHINGTON, May 21 =97=BFImages beamed from a space probe almost 500 million miles from Earth indicate that an ocean believed to lie beneath the frozen surface of Jupiter=92s moon Europa may be salty, scientists said Thursday. The images from the Galileo probe add to evidence that an ocean sloshing below the cracked, icy crust of Europa was warm and salty =97 like those on Earth =97 and thus theoretically capable of supporting life. "We know that water is critical to life on Earth, and all life on Earth started in oceans," said Jeff Kargel, a geologist with the U.S. Geological Survey. "The implication here is life." James Crowley, a geologist with the Geological Survey and one of the researchers who published the study in Friday=92s issue of the journal Science, said the data showed that salt absorption patterns on Europa were similar to those on Earth. When salt water evaporates, it leaves behind minerals that are a type of a "fingerprint" for scientists, he said. By comparing the distinctive shapes, the researchers determined that there was salt on Europa. "The shapes of the curves look very similar to ones (of salt minerals) on Earth," Crowley said in a telephone interview. Gary Hansen, a geophysicist at the University of Hawaii who helped write the study, said the data from Europa looks "very, very similar to hydrated minerals found on the Earth." This image of Europa's surface, taken by the Galileo spacecraft, shows wide dark bands in the moon's icy crust. Scientists say the dark bands correspond to the salt concentrations. Because the size of the salt bands on Europa=92s surface are continuous and stretch across much of the moon, he added, they add to evidence that a salty ocean is below the ice. Hansen estimated that the ocean covered 20 percent to 30 percent of Europa. "Together, the data more and more infers there is a global ocean on Europa," he said. But Kargel, who commented on the study in Science, said salt on Europa wouldn=92t necessarily prove there was an ocean, though it would be an important piece in the puzzle. "If all we had was this evidence of salts, people would not be clamoring for an ocean," he said. He said there was other evidence that Europa harbored an ocean: plates of ice similar to the polar regions on Earth, cracks in the frozen surface where salt water may have punched through, and a magnetic field. A magnetic field could indicate an ocean because salt water is a good electrical conductor, but Kargel noted that another of Jupiter=92s four moons had a magnetic field but no liquid water. "Either Europa=92s surface is playing an amazing trick on us, hiding an ocean underneath the surface, or there are other ways to induce this kind of magnetic field," Kargel said. In April 1997, NASA said pictures sent back by Galileo appeared to show a red-colored sea with a thick crust of ice. Scientists believe volcanic activity could have warmed the ocean enough to cause liquid water or slush to roil up through the frozen crust. The Science study was based on data from Galileo=92s Near Infrared Mapping Spectrometer. Coincidentally, NASA=92s Jet Propulsion Laboratory released a new batch of images taken by Galileo=92s camera even as the study was released. =A9 1998 Reuter Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuter content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuter. *"A Day on Europa" at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory *Europa Orbiter *Possibility of Life on Europa *Europa Fact Sheet
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 25 UK Conference - 'UFOs - The Global Evidence' From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 05:08:58 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 08:17:17 -0400 Subject: UK Conference - 'UFOs - The Global Evidence' >Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 17:18:48 -0400 >From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: UK Conference - 'UFOs - The Global Evidence' >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >UK Conference >Sunday 26th July 1998 >U.F.O.'s - The Global Evidence >Speakers:- >- Dr. Steven Greer ( U.S.A. ) - CE-5's/Disclosure >- Michael Hesemann ( Germany ) - UFO Report 2000 - The Best Cases > of the Nineties (including video footage) >- Nick Redfern ( U.K. ) - The British Government Cover-Up >Castle Hall >The wash >Hertford >Hertfordshire >SG14 1PS >Doors Open 10:00 a.m. >Conference 11.00 a.m. to 7.00 p.m. >Tickets =A315.00 on the day ( subject to availability ) >Advanced Booking =A312.50 >Concessions ( O.A.P.'s & under 14's ) =A38.50 The conference organisers have now secured the David Spoor footage, which is some of the most stunning video footage taken in the U.K. For those wishing to attend the conference Hertford is accesible via the A1(M), A10, M1, M11 and M25 and rail via London from the south, and via Stevenage from the north. For more details, or to secure your tickets please contact TSpurrier@compuserve.com Tickets are selling fast !! Thanks, Tony
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 25 Re: Filer's Files #20 From: RGates8254 <RGates8254@aol.com> [Robert Gates} Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 00:58:05 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 03:05:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Filer's Files #20 > Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 09:52:58 +0100 > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Pres. Carter > > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > > From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Filer's Files #20 > > Date: Fri, 22 May 98 10:30:09 PDT > > Marchetti's article, which is essentially an exercise in space, > > type, paper, and time waste, betrays his naivete on UFO matters. > > For example, he says, "Of all the evidence that exists with > > regard to UFOs, the single most impressive item (to my mind) is > > the Jimmy Carter experience." As no serious ufologist disputes, > > Carter saw Venus, not a UFO. Marchetti even gets the year (1969) > > of the sighting wrong (he has it in 1973). > > Jerry Clark > Hi Jerry and List, > Re your remark that no serious ufologist disputes that Carter saw > Venus. > I wonder about that. I remember writing his sighting off as well, > but then some time afterward wondered if I might have been hasty > in light of his education and naval experience [which for the > life of me I can't recall, but remember at the time as being > impressive]. Was Carter not a scientist of some sort, physicis > perhaps. He was not only a peanut farmer. > Do you have info regarding his education Jerry? > Don Don, The main so called investigative source for the story "Carter saw Venus" as I recall comes from one of Phil Klasses skeptical buds Robert 'they saw stars' Scheaffer? who blowmouthed that theory to death in his book. In the same book he also blowmouthed to death his theory that the Exter NH sighting of 1965? was stars blah blah. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 25 Re: Pres. Carter From: DRudiak <DRudiak@aol.com> [David Rudiak] Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 01:55:52 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 03:08:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Pres. Carter > Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 09:52:58 +0100 > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Pres. Carter > > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > > From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Filer's Files #20 > > Date: Fri, 22 May 98 10:30:09 PDT > >Re your remark that no serious ufologist disputes that Carter saw Venus. >> I wonder about that. I remember writing his sighting off as well, >> but then some time afterward wondered if I might have been hasty >> in light of his education and naval experience [which for the >> life of me I can't recall, but remember at the time as being >> impressive]. Was Carter not a scientist of some sort, physicis >> perhaps. He was not only a peanut farmer. Correct. Carter had a degree in nuclear physics and served as an officer on US nuclear submarines. I suspect he had also seen Venus a few times down on the peanut farm. >From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Date: Sat, 23 May 98 11:24:41 PDT >Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 21:45:48 -0400 >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #20 >Here is my entry "Carter Sighting" in The UFO Encyclopedia: >2nd Ed., p. 174: >As they stood outside waiting for a Lions Club meeting to start, >Gov. Jimmy Carter and 10 residents of Leary, Georgia, noticed an >unusually bright light at about 30 degrees' elevation in the >western sky. Carter was to recall it appeared slightly smaller >than the apparent size of the moon., It "came close, moved away, >came close, then moved away," he reported. He estimated it to be >"maybe 300-1000 yards" away. It "moved to [a] distance[,] then >disappeared" ("Jimmy Carter's," 1977). The sighting took place on >January 6, 1969, between approximately 7:15 and 7:30 p.m. >Except for this sketchily rendered last detail, this object >sounds very much like Venus, Venus?! Did Jerry Clark say Venus? There are many details in this report that don't sound anything like Venus: 1. Venus never appears to be the "size of the moon" or "slightly smaller than the apparent size of the moon." 2. Venus doesn't loom dramatically in size as described by Carter. 3. Venus doesn't disappear by seeming to move into the distance. At the reported time of the sighting, Venus would have remained well-elevated and visible in the sky. It would not have disappeared. It fact, it didn't set until about 9:20. You can't have it both ways, with Venus supposedly being brilliantly bright and otherwise highly visible (to supposedly account for the report), yet supposedly disappearing as well. Lesser discrepancies are: 1. Venus was in the southwestern, not western sky (between 237 and 240 degrees azimuth, not 270). 2. If the time was correct, the elevation was between 21 and 24 degrees, not 30 degrees. 3. According to my planetarium programs, Venus wasn't even at its brightest on this date, much less an "unusually bright light." Carter's report said that the "10-12 men all watched it. Brightness attracted us." None of these people had never seen Venus in the sky before? >frequently mistaken for a UFO in >part because of an optical illusion which causes stationary >objects to appear to move back and forth. What Jerry Clark is describing is the autokinetic effect, but this does nothing to explain the Carter report. The autokinetic effect has an isolated point of light in a dark background appearing to move erratically. It occurs when there is a lack of surrounding visual cues. But what Carter described was something that seemed to dramatically change in size and/or distance. Or as his UFO report described it, "came close, moved away, came close, moved away," changed in size from "brighter/larger than planet to apparent size of moon," and eventually seemed to move to the distance and disappear. Furthermore, the very fact that Carter compared the thing's apparent size and brightness to visible planets, such as Venus (Saturn was also visible), suggests that he wasn't confusing it with Venus. He felt this thing was both brighter and larger even when it was at its SMALLEST. Now there are only two visual physiological things I can think of that might cause a virtual point of light like Venus to appear to change in size like that. One is a disruption of the central visual brain, in which the person loses their ability to maintain size constancy. Objects seem to be constantly changing in size. There are a few extremely rare cases of organic brain damage causing this (such as in a small stroke), and perhaps some hallucinegenic drugs such as LSD can cause this as well. Jimmy Carter dropping acid? I think we can safely rule this explanation out. The other would be very extreme fluctuations in the focus of the eye. I could imagine this happening with somebody who was falling down drunk. But Carter was not intoxicated. Except for maybe an occasional Billy Beer or glass of wine, he was a teetotaler, if anything. Furthermore Carter was about 45 at the time. He didn't have a whole lot of accommodation (focusing ability) left (as people in their mid to late 40's can attest). So it becomes very questionable whether Carter, even if straining mightily, could have defocussed Venus into a blur that appeared to be about the size of the moon. Frankly, a better case for Venus probably could be made by dusting off one of Menzel's old standbys -- the atmospheric lens. But darn, even if you buy that, it still doesn't explain how Venus could seem to move off into the distance and permanently disappear when it was still up there for another two hours. In any case, forget autokinesis. There is no way it could have anything to do with it. Autokinesis has to do with perceived lateral motion, NOT perceived changes in size, distance, or brightness. > Indeed, the only real > investigation of the incident, conducted by debunker Robert > Sheaffer, established Venus' presence in the section of the sky > Carter was observing. As we all know, Venus is visible in the evening or early morning most of the year, making it a convenient debunking explanation for just about everything (e.g., Sheaffer also used it to "explain" the 1966 Portage County high-speed police chase). Just because Venus is up there in the general vicinity doesn't mean it automatically explains a case. In the Carter report (or Portage County), it certainly does not. >In common with an earlier reporter (Tiede, >1978), Sheaffer found that the other witnesses scarcely >remembered the incident (Sheaffer, 1981). Just because the others didn't care doesn't mean the incident wasn't worthy of note or anomalous. Certainly Carter went out of his way to later file a UFO report and pursue the matter of UFOs when he became President a few years later. It would be interesting to know how the other witnesses remembered it. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 25 The Donald E. Keyhoe Archives From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 16:40:54 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 03:02:06 -0400 Subject: The Donald E. Keyhoe Archives THE DONALD E. KEYHOE ARCHIVES This message is to announce the formation of the Donald E. Keyhoe Archives, which gathers several major UFO collections in one place. The center piece of the archives, the papers of Donald E. Keyhoe, includes Lindbergh memorabilia and correspondence. Keyhoe's corrrespondence concerning UFOs with many officials, Congress, the military, the media, witnesses and people such as Lou Corbin, Coral Lorenzen, etc., and others in this country and overseas is preserved here. Some of this material was just recently found at the Keyhoe home in a duffle bag in the basement when the family moved out. Keyhoe's extensive correspondence with his publisher on various aspects of his books is here, also. (The NICAP confidential files are NOT here.) The Keyhoe Archives also contains significant other material: Richard Hall's huge holdings of over 40 years' collection of correspondence, UFO reports, thousands of newspaper clippings, posters, flyers, and writings are the largest part of the Keyhoe Archives. Many items date from Hall's tenure as NICAP Secretary, then as Assistant Director and finally as Acting NICAP Director and as editor for the MUFON Journal. Among the items are a card file of pre-1947 UFO reports, an extensive collection of video and audio tapes, a large library of books, and foreign and US UFO journals and newsletters. Correspondence with Idabel Epperson, the chairwoman of the Los Angeles NICAP Subcommittee, Walter Webb, NICAP astronomy advisor and many other NICAP and MUFON investigators, scientists, and interested persons from all walks of life are part of this collection. The Fund for UFO Research (FUFOR). The Fund's files of correspondence, research, manuscripts, UFO reports submitted by various researchers, and various video and audio taped interviews are also housed with the Keyhoe archives. The Fund's extensive collection of microfilmed files includes the NICAP/CSI clipping collection filmed by the Library of Congress, the Project Blue Book files on microfilm, microfilm of the XXIth Bomber Command which contain large numbers of reports of "balls of fire" sighted by aircrew in and around Japan during World War II, and other microfilmed documents. A microfilm reader-printer is available at the collection. Isabel Davis, one of the primary officers of Civilian Saucer Intelligence, New York, (CSI-NY) and later a NICAP official and officer of the Fund for UFO Research passed on her correspondence and collection which includes her large card file of summarized early UFO cases. Ted Bloecher, another CSI (NY) officer and NICAP official, donated some of his extensive correspondences with various UFO researchers, some of his 1947 and 1950 research, the paste ups of his Report on the UFO Wave of 1947 and other material to Richard Hall who made them part of the archives. (The HUMCAT is NOT present here.) Marshall Cleaver, the chairman of a Florida NICAP subcommittee donated his files and copies of his investigations to Richard Hall who placed them in the archives. Dr. James McDonald, Senior Physicist at the Institute of Atmospheric Physics, University of Arizona, carried on the extensive (sometimes almost daily) correspondence with Richard Hall, Isabel Davis and Ted Bloecher. Items at the Keyhoe Archives include his articles, and speeches, formal correspondence, hand written notes, notes of telephone conversations and some investigations. Some of the McDonald material in the Keyhoe Archives is not available in McDonald's collection housed at the University of Arizona. The Keyhoe Archives is housed in the Washington, D.C. area. Access is restricted to journalists and serious researchers and by advanced appointment. There is a copier available. Write to Fund for UFO Research, Inc., P. O. Box 277, Mount Rainier, MD 20712, or telephone or fax 301-779-8683 -- Jan Aldrich Project 1947 http://www.iufog.org/project1947/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 25 Canada Centre for Remote Sensing From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson] Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 20:23:40 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 21:02:43 -0400 Subject: Canada Centre for Remote Sensing List members, Just found this site while poking around for Canadian Government doc.s on the internet. Interesting that the NRC is interested in this. Hmmmm. Canada Centre for Remote Sensing 588 Booth Street Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0Y7 General Enquiries: (613) 947-1216 Fax: (613) 947-3125 Internet Site: http://www.ccrs.NRCan.gc.ca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 25 Re: White House demonstration planned by ORTK From: "Steven Kaeser" <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 17:18:48 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 20:58:43 -0400 Subject: Re: White House demonstration planned by ORTK >From: "Steven Kaeser" <steve@konsulting.com> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: White House demonstration planned by ORTK >Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 08:46:05 -0400 >I really don't want to get into a long debate about this, since I >know that my thoughts won't sway have great impact on ORTK's >plans. But I have a couple of points that I have to make here: My intentions are sincere, but my phrasing leaves much to be desired. Sorry for not proofing it better. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 25 Re: E.T.H. - Extremely Tenuous Hypothesis From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net> Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 15:48:51 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 20:48:16 -0400 Subject: Re: E.T.H. - Extremely Tenuous Hypothesis >Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 17:42:22 -0500 (CDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: E.T.H. - Extremely Tenuous Hypothesis >>From: "Mark Pilkington" <markp@syzygy.net> >>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: E.T.H. - Extremely Tenuous Hypothesis >>Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:42:55 +0100 [...] > Peter Brookesmith was being sold in our >bookstores, and some of us even had computers with which to surf >the World Wide Web, never mind that we invented the damn thing in >the first place. [...] >Now, it is true that we are a country of 800-pound gorillas who >tend to sit anywhere we wish without first asking permission. But >that doesn't mean that we all believe lockstep in Roswell, the >Brooklyn Bridge abduction, and alien implants. Dennis, I find quite amusing that the person who climbs the barricades of anti-Americanism is the one who, a couple of months ago, was joking about the 'frogs' in Quebec, basing his educated opinion on a misguiding TV show. You never took the time to answer my personal e-mail at the time. Amusing indeed. I suggest you get to: http://www.isoc.org/zakon/Internet/History/HIT.html to straighten up your conceptions on the history of the Internet. Unless you have multiple citizenships, the "WE invented the (World Wide Web)" citation does make you a 800-pound gorilla. Enjoy, Serge Salvaille
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 26 Re: Pres. Carter From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 21:21:08 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 02:33:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Pres. Carter > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Pres. Carter > Date: Mon, 25 May 98 10:33:03 PDT > > From: DRudiak <DRudiak@aol.com> [David Rudiak] > > Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 01:55:52 EDT > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Re: Pres. Carter > > > Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 09:52:58 +0100 > > > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Pres. Carter <snip> > As we know from UFO history, even trained observers can sometimes > be mistaken about what they have seen in the sky. Carter, > however,was not even a trained observer, just another lay witness > with no particular education in what is out there (conventionally) > in the heavens. > Let's talk about sightings worth discussing. This sure ain't one > of 'em. > Jerry Clark Okay Jerry. I let you guys go on for two weeks about that bloody "ufology - UFOlogy" foolishness. Now I don't expect to take flack about an actual "case". I don't know why, I, a Canadian should be sticking up for an American UFO sighting by a former US President anyway, but for some reason it just sticks with me. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 26 Re: Strieber on CSPAN? From: Ufojoe1 <Ufojoe1@aol.com> [Joe Murgia] Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 22:22:22 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 02:37:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net> > To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 12:29:29 -0400 >Well, his publishers thought there was. He got a $1,000,000 >advance for Communion. No matter how much money he made, he doesn't live like a millionaire. Every time I see him at the UFO conferences he dresses and acts like any other guy there. In his new book, he talks about his finances and says that he lost the upstate N.Y. cabin due to some of his financial woes. Also, Strieber has made contributions to various causes over the years so he spreads what ever wealth he once had, around to others. Plus he has the Communion Foundation which is making some headway (Slowly) with some of the implant research. I wish I had extra money to start something like that. I realize you weren't knocking him for taking the money. I just wanted to add this to the discussion. Joe
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 26 Re: Billy Meier admits: 'Asket' and 'Nera' pics From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch) Date: 25 May 98 23:58:00 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 02:40:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Billy Meier admits: 'Asket' and 'Nera' pics Hello Errol, colleagues and friends! During the last few days, as you all know now, a really dramatic development occured regarding the Meier case. The indicator for this is the - surprising, indeed - fact, that FIGU themselves had come forward publicly with the English translation of the German text which is to be found on their Swiss homepage. The following chronology is quite interesting: April 1996: 9 page long article with new research results about the Meier case by Luc Buergin in UFO-KURIER No. 18 April 1997: First Kalliope Meier interview (3 page article) in UFO- KURIER No. 30 April 1997: First mail to this list: " Another Guru's Finale" Following months: Insulting letteres by Meier and his son and a lawyer to the editor. Supportive articles and emails (in a similar style) by Meier supporters February 98: Korff indicates to have found a 'smoking gun' in the Meier case March 98: The Dilettoso controversy March 98: Korff travels to Europe. Meeting with Buergin and interview with Kalliope. TV show is scheduled for May May 1st : Second Kalliope interview (excerpts) in UFO-KURIER No. 43. Revelation that 'Asket' pics are a fraud. May 4th: TV show is now re-scheduled for July May 6th: Second mail to this list "Another Guru's Finale Part 2" with revelation that 'Asket' pics are a fraud May 11th: Annoucement to this list that the Meier and Dean-Martin-Show pics are now available at http.//www.ufos.de May 14th, 00:55 am: Alledged contact conversation of Mr. Meier with a "Ptaah" and revelation to Meier, who claims "to have forgotten" that many "photographs" if not all 'due to the work of the "Men In Black"' are a fraud May 18th: FIGU homepage, Switzerland is updated. Contact report No. 264 appears only in German language by Mr. Meier himself. May 21st, 23:03: Luc Buergin's information about the change in FIGU's homepage May 22nd, 17:10: Annoncement by us to this list about what is to read in German on FIGU's homepage May 22nd, 22:07: Mail to this list from FIGU (written by a "Christian Frehner"): "Dear Mr. Bruce-Knapp, Would you please include this message in the UFO UpDates. Thank you. Christian Frehner of FIGU Switzerland <info@figu.ch>" It contains a "critical review" of Korff's book "Spaceships of the Pleiades" from 1995. Christian Frehner calls Korff to be "... a dirty and cowardly liar..." and that "...He has written a book that is in line with his cunning and perfidious character." No word so far about what is already on their own homepage written by their own "master". Then: May 23rd,17:48:59: Again a mail >From: FIGU Switzerland >info@figu.ch> [Christian Frehner] >Subject: Billy Meier: Asket and Nera photos >"Dear Mr. Bruce-Knapp, >Here's another text regarding Billy Meier's allegedly Asket and Nera >photos. Would you please include this text on your List? >Thank you. >FIGU >info@figu.ch" Nearly exactly 24 hrs. after we have announced to translate the text of Mr. Meier's statement into English language they come forward with their own translation. Comparing the German text with their English translation it seems as if this one is written by a third party. Example: German text (first paragraph): "...Bei diesen Photos handelt es sich um boeswillige Faelschungen, die mir, Billy, untergeschoben wurden..." My translation: "...These photographs are malicious frauds which were foisted on me, Billy, on behalf of..." FIGU English text: "...These photos are malicious hoaxes and were switched upon the order of..." So you see, the personal style of Mr. Meier has vanished completely. In the German text you can read - as a signature - below the first paragraph on the right hand side simply: " Billy" In the FIGU English text, there is, on the left hand side: "Billy Meier" Well, this might happen due to the translation process and might have nothing to say but I suggest the following: Mr. Meier, thanks to the efforts of many researchers and finally thanks to the effort of Korff and Buergin, is undoubtedly exposed. He cannot escape. He is in a dead-end-street. Now there is hectic activity within the inner circle at the "Semjase Silver Star Center" in Hinterschmidruetli, Switzerland: "What can we do?" So their last-ditch effort to save at least a bit of terrain right now is: offensive is the best defence. Right now, they are running a double strategy by on one hand attacking Korff (and shurely subsequently others) and on the other hand admitting the frauds. But the latter they disguise with the story of an "extraterrestrial contact conversation" and the cheap attempt to declare "the Pleiadians" to be guilty because they didn't help Mr. Meier out of his amnesia. They try to keep Mr. Meier out of the fireline, that might be the reason why we here have no further statement from Mr. Meier or his Secretary of Propaganda, Mr. Moosbrugger as was custom in the past years. And they have their helpers everywhere who have to support this strategy on every level and who will shurely come foreward in the next time. So I would like to address two questions to Prof. Jim Deardorff: 1. Are you a memeber of FIGU? 2. Do you believe that Mr. Meier has contact to "The Pleiadians" and that his photographs are genuine? BTW, I am familiar with the research in the abduction phenomenon. Greetings from Berlin Joachim Koch, Hans-Juergen Kyborg International Roswell Initiative, Germany http://ouworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jkoch1
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 26 Re: Canada Centre for Remote Sensing From: Kerry Ferrand <kferrand@rocketmail.com> Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 06:36:42 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 12:55:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Canada Centre for Remote Sensing > From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson] > Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 20:23:40 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Canada Centre for Remote Sensing > List members, > Just found this site while poking around for Canadian Government > doc.s on the internet. Interesting that the NRC is interested in > this. Hmmmm. > Canada Centre for Remote Sensing > 588 Booth Street > Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0Y7 > General Enquiries: (613) 947-1216 > Fax: (613) 947-3125 "remote sensing" is jargon for using satellites and aircraft to take pictures of the earth..forests, farmlands..city growth etc etc K
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 26 Re: Canada Centre for Remote Sensing From: "Rick Goldsmith" <rgoldsm@synapse.net> Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 11:24:20 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 12:57:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Canada Centre for Remote Sensing > From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson] > Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 20:23:40 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Canada Centre for Remote Sensing > List members, > Just found this site while poking around for Canadian Government > doc.s on the internet. Interesting that the NRC is interested in > this. Hmmmm. > Canada Centre for Remote Sensing > 588 Booth Street > Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0Y7 > General Enquiries: (613) 947-1216 > Fax: (613) 947-3125 > Internet Site: http://www.ccrs.NRCan.gc.ca Seems pretty normal to me... Unless of course, you are confusing remote sensing with "remote viewing". Not the same thing at all. Cheers; R. Goldsmith
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 26 Re: Help Wanted From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net> Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 08:07:26 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:09:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Help Wanted >Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 14:49:06 +0200 >From: Andy Denne <aura.aa@wxs.nl> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: help wanted >If that's not the case, I also >would be happy with the e-mail or phone of Luc Buergin. >Andy Denne >A.U.R.A. >The Netherlands Found two: buergin@nethos.ch lbuergin@access.ch Good Luck Sue
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 26 Re: Billy Meier admits: 'Asket' and 'Nera' pics From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:28:58 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 12:58:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Billy Meier admits: 'Asket' and 'Nera' pics >From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch) >Date: 25 May 98 23:58:00 +0000 >Subject: Re: Billy Meier admits: 'Asket' and 'Nera' pics are a fraud ! >To: updates@globalserve.net > [...] >So I would like to address two questions to Prof. Jim Deardorff: >1. Are you a memeber of FIGU? >2. Do you believe that Mr. Meier has contact to "The Pleiadians" and >that his photographs are genuine? >BTW, I am familiar with the research in the abduction phenomenon. >Greetings from Berlin >Joachim Koch, Hans-Juergen Kyborg Joachim, You owe it to me first to answer questions I've already raised for you. 1. Do you consider it to be good science or good logic to assume that what a contactee or abductee is told by his/her alleged alien(s) must either be the truth or else the contactee/abductee is inventing it or hallucinating it? When Meier types out the result of his previous alien contact for distribution to his FIGU members and then to a wider audience as well, and you disbelieve the truth of what Meier was told, why would you automatically assume it is Meier who is spreading disinformation rather than his contactor? Why must you assume that an alien would not spread disinformation, if he thought he had good reason to do so? 2. Concerning recent statements from Kalliope, Meier's ex-wife, which contradict what she and other witnesses had affirmed in 1979: Why do you ignore the earlier statements she made on video tape, which include a description of their daytime "beamship" sighting by her and other adults and also her kid, Gilgamesha, who made a sketch of it shown on the video? Why consider only her later statements made under the influence of her boyfriend, the anti-Meier ufologist Luc Buergin? Gilgamesha Meier, now an adult, continues to affirm the reality of what he witnessed and the reality of his father's contacts. Jim Deardorff http:\\www.proaxis.com/~deardorj/index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 26 The State Of Science In The US From: "Rick Savard" <tcdone@inland.net> Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 12:17:29 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 21:28:06 -0400 Subject: The State Of Science In The US The literal interpreters of the bible never fail to amaze. I have not had the time to check the validity of this, but it would not surprise me if it is true. This is the society we live in folks. Here, have a chuckle: May 12, 1998 HUNTSVILLE, Ala. (AP) -- NASA engineers and mathematicians in this high-tech city are stunned and infuriated after the Alabama state legislature narrowly passed a law yesterday redefining pi, a mathematical constant used in the aerospace industry. The bill to change the value of pi to exactly three was introduced without fanfare by Leonard Lee Lawson (R, Crossville), and rapidly gained support after a letter-writing campaign by members of the Solomon Society, a traditional values group. Governor Fob James says he will sign it into law on Wednesday. The law took the state's engineering community by surprise. "It would have been nice if they had consulted with someone who actually uses pi," said Marshall Bergman, a manager at the Ballistic Missile Defense Organization. According to Bergman, pi is a Greek letter that signifies the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter. It is often used by engineers to calculate missile trajectories. Prof. Kim Johanson, a mathematician from University of Alabama, said that pi is a universal constant, and cannot arbitrarily be changed by lawmakers. Johanson explained that pi is an irrational number, which means that it has an infinite number of digits after the decimal point and can never be known exactly. Nevertheless, she said, pi is precisely defined by mathematics to be "3.14159, plus as many more digits as you have time to calculate". "I think that it is the mathematicians that are being irrational, and it is time for them to admit it," said Lawson. "The Bible very clearly says in I Kings 7:23 that the alter font of Solomon's Temple was ten cubits across and thirty cubits in diameter, and that it was round in compass." Lawson called into question the usefulness of any number that cannot be calculated exactly, and suggested that never knowing the exact answer could harm students' self-esteem. "We need to return to some absolutes in our society," he said, "the Bible does not say that the font was thirty-something cubits. Plain reading says thirty cubits. Period." Science supports Lawson, explains Russell Humbleys, a propulsion technician at the Marshall Spaceflight Center who testified in support of the bill before the legislature in Montgomery on Monday. "Pi is merely an artifact of Euclidean geometry." Humbleys is working on a theory which he says will prove that pi is determined by the geometry of three-dimensional space, which is assumed by physicists to be "isotropic", or the same in all directions. "There are other geometries, and pi is different in every one of them," says Humbleys. Scientists have arbitrarily assumed that space is Euclidean, he says. He points out that a circle drawn on a spherical surface has a different value for the ratio of circumference to diameter. "Anyone with a compass, flexible ruler, and globe can see for themselves," suggests Humbleys, "its not exactly rocket science." Roger Learned, a Solomon Society member who was in Montgomery to support the bill, agrees. He said that pi is nothing more than an assumption by the mathematicians and engineers who were there to argue against the bill. "These nabobs waltzed into the capital with an arrogance that was breathtaking," Learned said. "Their prefatorial deficit resulted in a polemical stance at absolute contraposition to the legislature's puissance." Some education experts believe that the legislation will affect the way math is taught to Alabama's children. One member of the state school board, Lily Ponja, is anxious to get the new value of pi into the state's math textbooks, but thinks that the old value should be retained as an alternative. She said, "As far as I am concerned, the value of pi is only a theory, and we should be open to all interpretations." She looks forward to students having the freedom to decide for themselves what value pi should have. Robert S. Dietz, a professor at Arizona State University who has followed the controversy, wrote that this is not the first time a state legislature has attempted to redefine the value of pi. A legislator in the state of Indiana unsuccessfully attempted to have that state set the value of pi to three. According to Dietz, the lawmaker was exasperated by the calculations of a mathematician who carried pi to four hundred decimal places and still could not achieve a rational number. Many experts are warning that this is just the beginning of a national battle over pi between traditional values supporters and the technical elite. Solomon Society member Lawson agrees. "We just want to return pi to its traditional value," he said, "which, according to the Bible, is three." end Can you believe it?! -- STAY CONNECTED, Rick Savard Mars Surface Anomaly Analysis Group (MSAAg) NPAA Group http://www.mufor.org/ares/ tcdone@inland.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 27 Re: State of science From: "Jeff Westover" <jeff.westover@mailexcite.com> Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 21:43:38 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 03:20:57 -0400 Subject: Re: State of science The Alabama PI story seems to be a hoax. Go to www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/ctc676.htm to read about this. Jeff Westover --- "Prejudice will take you farther from the truth than ignorance" Bang Weng Gwang Enter into the "Night Of Light" art gallery at www.crystaltower.com/jeffw
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 27 Trans-Lunar Phenomena - 98/05/26 From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 07:59:59 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 03:23:09 -0400 Subject: Trans-Lunar Phenomena - 98/05/26 Greetings List Members. One of our South African radio DJ's (Mark Gilman, 5 FM, morning show) reported this morning that he saw a "red pulsating light on the dark part of the crescent moon" last night. I will attempt to get a report from him, but as this guy is pretty controversial, the whole issue could be a hoax. Did any other moon-gazers see anything last night, I wonder? Jakes E. Louw louwje@telkom.co.za
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 27 Max Burns Interview on #Visitations From: Angela Shilling <ashill@skipnet.com> Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 19:20:41 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 03:17:07 -0400 Subject: Max Burns Interview on #Visitations Max Burns has agreed to do a meeting on #Visitations. He will be available to answer your questions. Saturday, June 6th 7pm Pacific / 9pm Central / 3am GMT Where: #Visitations on the Undernet How to Get to IRC: http://www.skipnet.com/~visitations/irc/ Statement from Max Burns: On the 24th March 1997 in and around the Pennines just outside of Sheffield between the hours of 19.40 & 23.45 occurred one of the biggest ufo incidents in recent years involving a huge Flying Triangle, Military Jets, Sonic Booms, A Bolide Meteor, Unmarked Helicopters, Glowing orange objects, and what I hope, when you have studied the evidence, you will agree is a conspiracy on behalf of the civilian & Military authorities to hide the facts from the public about events one cold cloudless night. Did a ufo destroy a Tornado jet killing the pilot? Are the civilian & military authorities covering it up? Investigator Max Burns speaks to local witnesses to find out what was happening over the Pennines that night. Read about it in The Sheffield Report: http://www.skipnet.com/~visitations/sheffield ----------------------------------------- Angela Shilling email: angela@skipnet.com Web Page: http://www.skipnet.com/~visitations #Visitations on the UnderNet, Co-Channel Manager
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 27 Another New Zealand UFO Pioneer Dies From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 19:52:38 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 03:13:36 -0400 Subject: Another New Zealand UFO Pioneer Dies Greetings List, Muarry Bott is having computer troubles and asked me to post this message for him. Jan - Jan Aldrich Project 1947 http://www.iufog.org/project1947/ Another Death Among UFO Pioneers Three days ago one of the early New Zealand UFO Pioneers died, and his funeral was held today. He was Henk Hinfelaar, a Dutch born immigrant to New Zealand. During the mid 1950's he was Secretary of Harold Fulton's CSI(NZ) but later became the North Island Organizer for the New Zealand Adamski Correspondence Group. Henk organised most of George Adamski's New Zealand Tour in 1959 and following this visit the Group changed its name to the New Zealand Scientific Space Research Group. The South Island Group (run by Fred and Phylis Dickeson) later broke from NZSSR (calling Adamski a fraud) and changed their own group The Scientific Approach to Cosmic Understanding. Henk (along with his wife Brenda) published their magazines regularly until the early 1970's and handed the reigns over to Vic Harris who continued for a short while before leaving New Zealand for Australia. With Vic Harris's departure the group folded although Henk and Brenda's interest continued to this day. While they undertook other activities and interests since the 1970's, they both remained loyal to Adamski's claims. In the late 1960's they (along with Tony Brunt and Harold Fulton) had a pleasant day with Dr James McDonald during a one day stopover in Auckland. And in the early 1970's Henk and Brenda hosted Dr. J. Allen Hynek with an overnight stay in their home. In conclusion this brings and to an end, an Era within Ufology in New Zealand. While Henk and Brenda had many more interests since the mid 1970's, the only UFO related people (that I recognized) whom attended today's funeral was myself and Tony Brunt (Tony Brunt gave an address during the service but the strain was also noticeable at the end of his address - he had know Henk for 35 years.) Best regards, Murray Bott Domain : murrayb@kiwi.gen.nz Voice : 64-9-6345285 Snail : PO Box 27117, Mt Roskill, Auckland 1030, New Zealand
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 27 PROJECT-1947: FBI-NSA FOIA CD-ROM From: Steven Kaeser <steve@KONSULTING.COM> Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 13:15:55 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 04:01:10 -0400 Subject: PROJECT-1947: FBI-NSA FOIA CD-ROM The FBI and NSA have placed most of their UFO material obtained through the Freedom of Information Act on their respective WEB pages, and it is available for viewing at no charge. However, those with slow modem connections may find it too difficult to download many of the larger files for viewing, and the files can take up quite a bit of room if an attempt is made to store them locally. The Fund for UFO Research is making a CD-ROM of that material available, along with a copy of the 1960 Brookings Institution Report to NASA. The files on the CD-ROM are in Adobe Acrobat format, which allows one to view and print the documents as needed. If you would find this of interest, or would like more information, please contact the Fund at fufor@fufor.org for more information. I may also be contacted via email at steve@konsulting.com Steve Kaeser steve@konsulting.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 27 Re: The Sheffield Incident From: Jeroen Wierda <pufori@horizon.nl> Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 03:06:18 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 04:26:31 -0400 Subject: Re: The Sheffield Incident Hi all... just a quick notice that I have added a great report on "The Sheffield Incident" by Max Burns. You can see it at: http://www.pufori.org/articles/sheffield/index_nf.htm Or follow the path thry PUFORI: http://www.pufori.org/ --> frames or non_frames --> articles --> sightings Best, Jeroen Wierda President of Picard UFO Research International E-Mail me : JeroenW@pufori.org E-Mail PUFORI: Webmaster@pufori.org URL to PUFORI: http://www.pufori.org/ If I do not reply to mail addressed to me within 3 days, plz resend it. Postal address: Jeroen Wierda, PO Box 352, 5201 AJ 's-Hertogenbosch, the Netherlands
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 27 Re: Whitley Strieber From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 13:25:31 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 09:09:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Whitley Strieber > > > > >Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:53:17 +0100 > > > > >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > > > > >To: updates@globalserve.net > > > > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strieber on CSPAN? > Like I mentioned earlier Greg, I'm on the fence about his > motives, but I'm still sucker enough to want to extend the > benefit of the doubt to people until I exhaust the possibilities. > Lately though I have become less charitable. As for the million > dollars, was that not for the paperback rights after "Communion" > [the hardcover] became a best seller. It was my understanding > that he had trouble finding a publisher for it, but this is > something I remember from way back in the late 80s and might be > totally out of whack. I've heard that the $1,000,000 was an advance from the original publisher, but maybe I'm just recycling reminiscences from the '80s myself! Whatever the truth here, the $1 million has nothing to do with Strieber's credibility. All we're disputing is a small historical point, whether there was a demand for a true-story abduction book in 1987. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 27 DISPATCH # 94 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope From: ParaScope <ParaScope@AOL.COM> Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 12:46:21 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 12:46:21 -0400 Subject: DISPATCH # 94 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope DISPATCH # 94 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope S O M E T H I N G S T R A N G E I S H A P P E N I N G 5/27/98 Quote of the Week "Just, just...is there anything we can do to get past this stupid thing?" -- Bill Gates quoted in Fortune magazine speaking to his cadre of attorneys regarding making all that awful anti-trust nonsense go away. ----------------------- Rant of the Week: �Fairy Dust: A Tutu That Was Red Too� Every week we pick the wackiest, scariest, nastiest or funniest rant from the hundreds of letters received by us here at ParaScope headquarters, and present it to you as our Rant of the Week. This week, �Joy� weaves a spellbinding tale for us of fairies, dust and tutus. And, of course, their obvious connection to UFOs. Enjoy. �I�ve been in the ufo field for many years. Am 65 married to a textile scientist, two sons in their 40s. Thous. of books here in Mass. from the USA and England where weve lived and travelled alot in the pst 20 plus years. I have been into fairies for years and my articles are on ufofourm lib. files. I know in FAte mag a woman in her 30s probably (intellignet) had had an item re rfairy dust she had gotten at some site I dont know where. So alot of people wrote her to ask for a sample as she promised (in Fate) but I dont think they ever got any. What her excuse was I dont know. She had an intelligent item in Fte and had seen fairies dancing. I mysefl May85 saw a tall red fairy (ina tutu- which was red too) dancing inthe middle of highway 30 miels o r so from Limerick Ire. where we were touring at the time. (been to London mostly)� �I have alot on ufooum re my articles (pub. in England and here)(years ago) Its very complex re fairies. the natural occupants of fhe astral plane where we all are when we sleep. (get it?)( FOMR from tiny nature spirits a few inches high- to 3 /4 /5 foot devas(get the ufo angel there/re height?but there is a a great spiritual complexity behind this in my fairy books plu"s Ufos an Initiated Account" -- t a manu. from Beverley Hills Californa written by Michael Topper who once 20 plus years.. a go headed a n estoeric group there called NUMATION . It prob doesnt eixsst anymore unless it is someplace under the name Lifepower (in or out of Beverly Hills)� �It probagbly doesnt exist any more. Write me if youre really into the deep spiritual impications lciatiosn re ufos and SOME fairies. But if not thanks for'liustenning" ------ All rants are printed �as is,� with spelling and grammar goofs left uncorrected. Some rants may be edited for brevity or clarity, to the extent such a thing is possible. If you�ve got a rant you�d like to share, send it to pscplady@aol.com with �possible rant� in the subject line of your letter. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Coming Up This Week! Catch a number of great stories this week on the ParaScope web and AOL sites, including daily updates to our Conspiracy Newsline and Daily Dose features. Among the articles you'll want to check out: Bigfoot in Russia Cryptozoologists generally focus their Bigfoot searches on the Pacific Northwest and western Canada, the supposed natural habitat of the paranormal world's favorite hairy biped. But the creature has also been sighted in other parts of the globe, including the former Soviet Union. Paul Stonehill reports on how Russian scientists and researchers of the paranormal have been studying Bigfoot, ranging from "snow man" expeditions in the Primorskaya region to the pioneering research of a cryptozoologist named Yeltsin (no relation to Boris). --------------------- The Paper Trail: Special Issue on JFK Assassination Records Dossier's monthly review of new document releases returns with a special issue featuring the work of the Assassination Records Review Board. The ARRB has spearheaded the effort to declassify documents on President Kennedy's murder. Don't miss this documented roundup of intriguing case studies that demonstrate government secrecy -- and government openess -- in action. --------------------- "E.T.H." vs. "P.S.H.": Jerome Clark Responds to John Rimmer Several weeks ago, ParaScope published an article by John Rimmer from Magonia, which criticized Jerome Clark for his advocacy of the "extraterrestrial hypothesis" of the origins of UFOs. Rimmer, who advocates the "psychosocial hypothesis," was quite critical of Clark's position. In the interests of robust debate, ParaScope presents Jerome Clark's response to Rimmer's critique. Are UFOs piloted by beings from outer space, or is it all in our heads? --------------------- The Handoff: LAPD Fumbles Citizens� Rights to Privacy Most folk think telephone wiretaps are rare, exotic intrusions by federal investigators into the lives of �narco-terrorists� or �mafia bosses.� But the Los Angeles Police Department, the largest law enforcement organization outside the federal areana, executes scores of wiretaps every year. In fact, since 1984, the LAPD has been sharing confidential wiretap information between various department personnel without court permission or supervisory oversight, much less Constitutional authorization. As a result, an estimated 200,000 L.A. area phone conversations have been illegally recorded by LAPD investigators. Learn the sad details of how America�s largest police department has been snooping on innocent citizens without warrants for more than a decade, and why L.A. County prosecutors consider the matter �no big deal.� --------------------- Operation Radical, Dude! The CIA�s �Just for Kids� Web Site The hottest trend in brand marketing today is to hook 'em while they're young. If you build brand loyalty among your customers early in life, they'll never stray, buying your product for the next half century. Now the CIA has taken a government mandate to make the web more hospitable and helpful to young people and turned it into a ham-fisted effort at, like, totally awesomely lame propaganda for the Barney generation. Ultimately, it�s a toss-up as to which is more disturbing: the Company�s shameless attempt to whitewash its activities in a warm and fuzzy light, or its utter incompetence in achieving that mission. Either way, you�re sure to enjoy this awesomely radical tour of the radically awesome CIA for Kids web site. --------------------- UFO Roundup The latest UFOlogy news and sighting reports, courtesy of Joseph Trainor's UFO Roundup. Mysterious green lights over Half Moon Bay; Dutch UFOlogists dispute story of "giant UFO" chase over North Sea; Peru's "lardsucker" suspected by some in bizarre double homicide; crop circles appear in Germany; lots more news. --------------------- Conspiracy Newsline As the saying goes, if you aren't paranoid yet, you just aren't paying attention. Federal judge dismisses involuntary manslaughter charges against FBI sharpshooter Lon Horiuchi; Amnesty International report condemns U.S. Border Patrol conduct, citing rapes, beatings and other human rights abuses; judge orders closure of 6 California medical marijuana dispensaries; new evidence to be presented on Robert Kennedy assassination anniversary; lots more news. --------------------- Hypnosis in Interrogation: An Early CIA Assessment "The control over a person's behavior ostensibly achieved in hypnosis obviously nominates it for use in the difficult process of interrogation." So begins a 1960 CIA study of "Hypnosis in Interrogation" which appeared in the agency's journal Studies in Intelligence. Could placing interrogatees under trance help loosen their lips? Read what one CIA analyst concluded in this declassified report. --------------------- Fortean Slips: Celebrating Dispatch #100 from the Paranormal Fringe! Back when Enigma editor D. Trull first said he wanted to do paranormal news commentary with a heaping helping of wackiness, we said, "Okay, Donald, you can have a quarantined-off little section where you can go nuts without infecting the rest of ParaScope too severely." Two years later, Fortean Slips has filed its 100th report -- and apparently, some of you out there actually read this crap! Join the festivities as this prolific pile of pandemonious puffery hits the century mark with a truly special lineup: Loch Ness Politics: If you think there's bitter controversy between Nessie hunters and Nessie skeptics, wait till you see the duplicitous intrigue of territorial wars waged between Historic Scotland and the Loch Ness Monster tourist industry. Burnt by Burnt Offerings: A Florida woman with evil spirits in her house and plenty of dough in the bank fell prey to an exorcism scam that sent $200,000 up in smoke. Global Warping: Ever felt like the fabric of reality was twisting up in knots all around you? Maybe this will explain a few things: scientists have discovered that the Earth is dragging space and time around itself as it rotates. A Mythological Boner: And lo, there shall come Fortean Slip #100... an epic saga of anomalous absurdity that's so damn funny, the Surgeon General's Commission on the Prevention of Busted Guts has advised us that its exact contents must remain top secret. Be there! ...All this, and much, much more! -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing! Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway? Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe yourself from Dispatch: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch That's all there is to it! Likewise, to subscribe: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch ---------------------------------------- ParaScope 11288 Ventura Blvd., #904 Studio City, CA 91604 America Online -- keyword: parascope parascope@aol.com World-Wide Web -- http://www.parascope.com info@parascope.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 27 Re: Trans-Lunar Phenomena - 98/05/26 From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com> Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 10:25:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 12:43:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Trans-Lunar Phenomena - 98/05/26 >Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 07:59:59 +0200 >From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: TLP on 98/05/26 >One of our South African radio DJ's (Mark Gilman, 5 FM, morning >show) reported this morning that he saw a "red pulsating light on >the dark part of the crescent moon" last night. >I will attempt to get a report from him, but as this guy is >pretty controversial, the whole issue could be a hoax. >Did any other moon-gazers see anything last night, I wonder? Considering it was a new moon last night (and therefore the moon is 'lost' in the glare of the sun, as far as we are concerned), I consider the report bogus. Brian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 27 Posting Rules From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 12:49:18 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 12:49:18 -0400 Subject: Posting Rules ebk Posting Rules To help current and future readers of UFO UpDates' posts and the UFO UpDates Archive software at: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates please observe the following rules when posting to the List. 1. Line-length Please make your lines no more than 70 characters long ------------------------This line is 70 characters--------------------- Longer lines are wrapped by various pieces of software along the Net and leave awkward and eye-jarring line lengths. 2. Attribution When responding to a message from the List, _always_ include the four line 'header' from the body of that message at the start of _your_ message - eg.: >Date: 01 Jan 97 00:00:01 EST >From: Genghis@mukluk.com <Bob Bobberts> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Grays are Grey Area Again - it's at the beginning of the 'body' of the message you are responding to. 3. Quoting _Always_ quote from the message to which you are responding. Quotes should come _before_ you key your response. Start each quoted line with a 'greater-than' sign (>) as the first character. It should look like this: >Start each quoted line with a 'greater-than' sign (>) as the >first character. It should look like this: Keep quoted material from previous messages to a minimum: Just quote enough text to let people know what you are referring to. Messages that do not utilize the required quoting protocol or contain excessive quoting will not be posted to UpDates. The Archive software will automatically italicize these lines. Visit the Archive page and take a look. Most modern E-Mail software will allow the user to click a 'Reply' button and automatically open a new window, with the message being responded to inserted with universal quote-mark (>) at the beginning of each line. When 'Reply' is clicked, some E-Mail software will insert a line which states: On 01 Jan 97 at 00:00:01 EST, UFO UpDates wrote: If your program does this, please remove it - UFO UpDates did not _write_ the message - it merely posted it to the List. 5. Don't send 'personal' responses to the list that should be sent directly to the original author. Send a message to the list only if it contains new information that you want _everyone_ to see. Messages that contain what the List Administrator considers to be personal attacks or 'flames' will not be posted to the List. Those messages will be forwarded to the person they refer to for their information. 6. URLs (Web Site addresses) _must_ include 'http://' and be on one line. The Archive software will make the URL a 'click-able' link to that address in your archived message. ------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 27 Re: Pres. Carter From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Wed, 27 May 98 12:06:30 PDT Fwd Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 16:05:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Pres. Carter > Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 21:21:08 +0100 > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Pres. Carter > > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > > From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Pres. Carter > > Date: Mon, 25 May 98 10:33:03 PDT > > > From: DRudiak <DRudiak@aol.com> [David Rudiak] > > > Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 01:55:52 EDT > > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > > Subject: Re: Pres. Carter > > > > Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 09:52:58 +0100 > > > > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > > > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Pres. Carter > <snip> > > As we know from UFO history, even trained observers can sometimes > > be mistaken about what they have seen in the sky. Carter, > > however,was not even a trained observer, just another lay witness > > with no particular education in what is out there (conventionally) > > in the heavens. > > Let's talk about sightings worth discussing. This sure ain't one > > of 'em. > > Jerry Clark > Okay Jerry. I let you guys go on for two weeks about that bloody > "ufology - UFOlogy" foolishness. Now I don't expect to take flack > about an actual "case". I don't know why, I, a Canadian should be > sticking up for an American UFO sighting by a former US President > anyway, but for some reason it just sticks with me. > Don Ledger > Hi, Don, David, and list, I'm a little surprised to read such a vigorous defense of such a nothing case as Jimmy Carter's report, but to each his own. Nonetheless, a few observations: (1) I am surprised that so little -- actually, nothing -- is being made here of the testimonies of the other witnesses, who seem universally to have been sure they had seen nothing out of the ordinary. Offhand I can't think of another instance generally held to be of a true UFO sighting where this is the case. This consideration alone should make Carter's testimony suspicious. If the witness had not been a future President, absolutely nobody would have paid attention to the sighting, and we certainly would not be discussing it here. (2) Misidentifications and misobservations far more spectacular than those to which Carter apparently fell victim are well known in the UFO literature, for example the Mantell and Gorman incidents of 1948, in both of which those making the mistake (in the Mantell case fatally) were pilots and "trained observers." (3) Sheaffer's account of his investigation of the story appears in Chapter 2 of his The UFO Verdict (1981). I strongly disagree with Sheaffer's analyses of other, stronger cases, but in this instance he had a weak target, and his solution is almost surely the same one an investigator less hostile to UFOs would have come to. (4) If you need a sighting by a U.S. President, Ronald Reagan's is far more interesting, though much less known. Cheers, Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 27 Surveyor Data Reveal More Evidence From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 15:09:06 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 16:13:56 -0400 Subject: Surveyor Data Reveal More Evidence Douglas Isbell Headquarters, Washington, DC May 27, 1998 (Phone: 202/358-1547) Diane Ainsworth Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA (Phone: 818/354-5011) RELEASE: 98-90 SURVEYOR DATA REVEAL MORE EVIDENCE OF ABUNDANT WATER, THERMAL ACTIVITY IN MARS' PAST New mineralogical and topographic evidence suggesting that Mars had abundant water and thermal activity in its early history is emerging from data gleaned by NASA's Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft. Scientists are getting more glimpses of this warmer, wetter past on Mars while Global Surveyor circles the planet in a temporary 11.6-hour elliptical orbit. Findings from data gathered during the early portions of this hiatus in the mission's orbital aerobraking campaign are being presented today at the spring meeting of the American Geophysical Union in Boston. Among many results, the Thermal Emission Spectrometer instrument team, led by Dr. Philip Christensen of Arizona State University, Tempe, has discovered the first clear evidence of an ancient hydrothermal system. This finding implies that water was stable at or near the surface and that a thicker atmosphere existed in Mars' early history. Measurements from the spectrometer show a remarkable accumulation of the mineral hematite, well-crystallized grains of ferric (iron) oxide that typically originate from thermal activity and standing bodies of water. This deposit is localized near the Martian equator, in an area approximately 300 miles (500 kilometers) in diameter. Fine-grained hematite, with tiny particles no larger than specks of dust, generally forms by the weathering of iron-bearing minerals during oxidation, or rusting, which can occur in an atmosphere at low temperatures. The material has been previously detected on Mars in more dispersed concentrations and is widely thought to be an important component of the materials that give Mars its red color. The presence of a singular deposit of hematite on Mars is intriguing, however, because it typically forms by crystal growth from hot, iron-rich fluids. Meanwhile, the Mars Orbiter Laser Altimeter instrument is giving mission scientists their first three-dimensional views of the planet's north polar ice cap. Principal Investigator Dr. David Smith of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, MD, and his team have been using the laser altimeter to obtain more than 50,000 measurements of the topography of the polar cap in order to calculate its thickness, and learn more about related seasonal and climatic changes. These initial profiles have revealed an often striking surface topology of canyons and spiral troughs in the water and carbon dioxide ice that can reach depths as great as 3,600 feet below the surface. Many of the larger and deeper troughs display a staircase structure, which may ultimately be correlated with seasonal layering of ice and dust observed by NASA's Viking mission orbiters in the late 1970s. The laser data also have shown that large areas of the ice cap are extremely smooth, with elevations that vary only a few feet over many miles. At 86.3 degrees north, the highest latitude yet sampled, the cap achieves an elevation of 6,600 to 7,900 feet (1.25 to 1.5 miles or 2-2.5 kilometers) over the surrounding terrain. The laser measurements are accurate to approximately one foot (30 centimeters) in the vertical dimension. In June, the ice cap's thickness will reach a maximum during the peak of the northern winter season. Thickness measurements from April will be compared to those that will be taken in June, contributing to a greater understanding of the Martian polar cap's formation and evolution. In addition, the Global Surveyor accelerometer team, led by Dr. Gerald Keating of George Washington University, Washington, DC, has discovered two enormous bulges in the upper atmosphere of Mars in the northern hemisphere, on opposite sides of the planet near 90 degrees east latitude and 90 degrees west longitude. These bulges rotate with the planet, causing variations of nearly a factor of two in atmospheric pressure, and systematic variations in the altitude of a given constant pressure of about 12,000 feet (four kilometers). Additional information about these findings and other exciting new results from the Mars Global Surveyor mission is available at the following Internet sites: http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/ http://emma.la.asu.edu/ http://ltpwww.gsfc.nasa.gov/tharsis/mola.html After a month-long period during which the Sun was between Earth and Mars and thus degraded communications with Global Surveyor, the spacecraft has resumed taking scientific data in its temporary elliptical orbit. In September, it will once again begin dipping into the upper atmosphere of Mars each orbit in a process called aerobraking. The drag from this procedure will allow the spacecraft to reach a low circular orbit and begin its primary two-year global mapping mission starting in March 1999. -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 28 Re: Just For Grins From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 07:17:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 10:48:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Just For Grins Greetings EBK, List Members, and others who may be getting a copy of this. Since everyone has been so serious of late, I thought I would make you all aware of a site that I have just put up that is STRICTLY FOR GRINS. If you can appreciate the humor in all of this, check out: http://members.xoom.com/InfoHead/tapra/humor.html This site will likely grow in the future. Thanks for your attention. Glenn Joyner ******************************************** ** Visit : http://ufo-world.simplenet.com ** ** It's a SERIOUS look at UFO phenomena ** ********************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 28 Re: SPSR Say Face _Is_ Artificial From: JJ Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.net> Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 10:18:12 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 10:46:01 -0400 Subject: Re: SPSR Say Face _Is_ Artificial Members of the Society for Planetary SETI Research (McDaniel, Carlotto, Crater, Erjevac, Moore, DiPietro, et al) say that in all probability the Face is an ARTIFICIAL CONSTRUCT!! UFO Forum has posted an Exclusive Report - http://forums.msn.com/ufo/spsrags.htm - from members of the Society for Planetary SETI Research (SPSR). Below are some excerpts from the SPSR members interviewed. The full reports and images can be found by visiting the above links. "Using the April data taken by MGS, SPSR has been able to validate the earlier theories regarding artificiality of the Cydonian Face. By using the geometric control points, they were able to orthographically rectify the image to match the positioning of the earlier Viking images (see photo gallery below). In doing so, they have verified a 92 to 99% symmetry." "According to James Erjavec, the face shows definite signs of erosion due to water based processes. The structure appears to show the classic signs of being an artifical construct with erosion from a period when water was liquid." "As Harry Moore points out, it is suggested that this new found crater cluster in the Cydonia area may represent the location of near surface water-ice that is much closer to the surface and in greater quantities than previously thought. The implications for this very near-surface water ice would be a tremendous encouragement for the future exploration of Mars." Regards, JJ Mercieca http://www.mufor.org/ares/ Mars Surface Anomaly Analysis group
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 28 Re: Canada Centre for Remote Sensing From: werd@interlog.com Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 23:13:00 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 10:28:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Canada Centre for Remote Sensing >Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 06:36:42 -0700 (PDT) >From: Kerry Ferrand <kferrand@rocketmail.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Canada Centre for Remote Sensing >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson] >> Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 20:23:40 -0400 (EDT) >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> Subject: Canada Centre for Remote Sensing > >> List members, >> Just found this site while poking around for Canadian Government >> doc.s on the internet. Interesting that the NRC is interested in >> this. Hmmmm. >> Canada Centre for Remote Sensing >> 588 Booth Street >> Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0Y7 >> General Enquiries: (613) 947-1216 >> Fax: (613) 947-3125 >"remote sensing" is jargon for using satellites and aircraft to >take pictures of the earth..forests, farmlands..city growth etc >etc >Seems pretty normal to me... Unless of course, you are confusing >remote sensing with "remote viewing". Not the same thing at all. >Cheers; >R. Goldsmith Thanks for the clarification. Just another example of jumping the gun. I should have visited the site first. I was confusing the two. Ooops! Drew Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 28 Re: White House demonstration planned by ORTK From: RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates] Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 23:29:35 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 10:41:20 -0400 Subject: Re: White House demonstration planned by ORTK > From: "Steven Kaeser" <steve@konsulting.com> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: White House demonstration planned by ORTK > Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 08:46:05 -0400 > I really don't want to get into a long debate about this, since I > know that my thoughts won't sway have great impact on ORTK's > plans. But I have a couple of points that I have to make here: > >From: MDJ50@webtv.net (Mike Jamieson) > >Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 10:49:13 -0700 > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Re: Update Re: White House demonstration planned by ORTK > >From: "Steven Kaeser" steve@konsulting.com > >Subject: Re: White House Demonstration > >Date: Sunday, May 24,1998 08:39:04 -0400 > >>...the timing of this event will be in > >>the midst of a Presidential election. > >>....Republicans will be damning the > >> Democrats....I can just imagine the > >>press releases now as they tout that > >>this is an administration that appeals > >>to UFO-nuts > >>If someone uncovers a "smoking > >>gun" that will be accopted by the > >>media as valid, then such a demon- > >>stration would be valuable........ > >Thank you Steven for your thoughts. I think the timing would be > >more like the eve of the campaign--not in the midst--as it would > >be several months before the first primary. Also, I'm not so > >sure that the Republicans could succeed in representing our event > >as UFO-nuts in a show of affection for the administration (though > >I'm sure some of like and support the President). Any so called demonstration will be a total loser. Why? Very simple the political forces are so used to demonstrations in Washington, for the many political causes that for a large part they are meaningless. Most people demonstrate for the press coverage. However this summer and throughout the year the press is going to laser focus on Clinton scandels 1-10, the House China probe, Ken Starr 1-5, not to mention his final report and reaction to it. Then if we have another school shooting we will get the usuall press coverage of every bloody detail and the usuall aftermath reporting. The only time you will get any reaction to UFO material is if it is some kind of politically expident issue (i.e. on the radar scope). Now being on the radar scope to the democrats means something that will embarass the Republicans and perhaps help the democrats regain some lost congressional seats. To the Republicans it must be something that will embarass the Democrats, and or help the Republicans gain more seats in congress. That is the way Washington works and has worked since day one. > While the election is held in November, and the Party conventions > will indeed be a month away, the PRIMARIES will have been > underway for several months, with much of the Press concentrating > on multiple campaigns all around the country. In case you've > never taken part in the feeding frenzy that the press becomes > involved in during a campaign (and I have literally worked on > boths sides during a campaign), there is always a demand for some > "new angle" or "hook" that you can use to attract the interest of > the public. Perhaps the media would simply ignore the > demonstration and not ask any questions of the candidates in the > field, but I somehow doubt that it. How it then is handled would > depend on the response, and I somehow doubt that it woud > sympathetic. > >I pray that smokng gun surfaces and we can start learning the > >facts that have been covertly established on UFO reality. > If a "smoking gun" surfaces, the demonstration would not really > be needed. Define "smoking gun". Lets look for a moment. Lets say for example that a former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff writes a book, confirms that UFOs are real, confirms say the existance of MJ-12, confirms that we have communicated with aliens blah blah. As long as the Pentagon, White House or Dept of Defense refuses to "confirm" the book to the press it will join the legions of many other books written about many other subjects. The only "smoking gun" that will mean anything to anybody is actuall govt documents that have been declassified, say about Roswell or whatever OR the landing of a UFO in a very public place BUT said landing would be rationalized away as a US govt craft /plot/conspiracy/New World Order scheme or whatever. > >Perhaps the whole body of evidence can serve as our "smoking > >gun". Of course, the difficulty there is that is not as sexy as a > >dramatic revelation of confirming evidence. So a lot of hard work > >has to be done to prepare credible and responsible briefing > >summaries and other resources that effectively educate, and draw > >the interest of the press (and scientists, members of > >Congress,etc). > All of this has been done in the past. Briefing documents with > the "best cases" has been presented to each Member of Congress > and the Administration. It was also presented to members of the > Press, and Business Leaders, and anyone else that was deemed > important. Follow up phone calls have been made, and every > effort has been made to try and interest their attention in this > matter in an on-going basis since then. While not sanctioned by > the UFO Coalition, which undertook the effort just mentioned, Dr. > Stephen Greer held his "Briefings" in Washington last year, and > invited every Member of Congress, as well as other selected > government officials, to attend. All of this was designed to > make government leaders aware of the best information available, > and we have all witnessed how successful that effort has been (at > least in public). That was last year and it didn't work, or atleast did not get the anticipated reaction. This year it was "call the committee chairpeople" in hopes of getting some hearings. As I pointed out from seeing this first hand in the congressional offices, they will ooh, and ahh while you are unloading your tale of why they need to do something, then the instant you are out the door your are promptly forgotten when the next special interest group shows up. The congressperson listens sympatheticly to all the comments, ooh, and ahh, then the instant they walk out the door they move on with their own business, agendas, and interests. <snip> > Again, I support your goals, but question your methodology. You hit this one right on the head Steve. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 28 Two Astrobiology Programs Selected For Funding From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 11:24:32 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 10:47:00 -0400 Subject: Two Astrobiology Programs Selected For Funding >From NASA's site. URL: http://science.msfc.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast22may98_1.htm The links are preceded by stars. Stig ******* Marshall scientist to participate in Astrobiology Institute May 22, 1998: What started as a hobby for a scientist here has become a new line of scientific investigation in the newly formed NASA Astrobiology Institute. Richard Hoover, a solar physicist at Marshall Space Flight Center, is co-investigator on two astrobiology proposals which NASA has selected for funding. (The poster depicts Hoover's foray into astrobiology, including Europa (background and top), and a cyanobacteria (center) found deep in the Antarctic (bottom). (links to a 900x1281-pixel, 320K JPG. Photo credit: NASA/Marshall Space Flight Center.)) Dr. David McKay of Johnson Space Center is principal investigator on a proposal to look for biomarkers in astromaterials: signs of life in soil, rocks, and other materials from outside the Earth. Dr. Kenneth Nealson of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif. is principal investigator on a proposal on a study of the co-evolution of planets and biospheres. Hoover will be a co-investigator on both proposals. --- "This is really exciting," said Hoover, whose primary work at Marshall has been developing advanced telescopes to study the sun. "We are going to look at life on Earth in the most extreme environments - hot volcanic vents, deep ocean ice, and even ancient rocks - and help sharpen our senses when we look for signs of life on Mars, Europa, and other astromaterials." For Hoover, this journey started years ago when he became fascinated by diatoms (below), the "living jewels of the sea." It became a hobby, then a passion, which has earned him international recognition. Most recently, he has applied knowledge gained in this area to the search for preserved microbes in Antarctic ice cores as a model of extraterrestrial life. While Mars has long been thought of as the best chance for life elsewhere in our solar system, recent evidence of liquid water in Europa, one of Jupiter's moons, raises the possibility of life there. In turn, the discoveries over the past few decades of life in hot springs, deep ocean vents, and even Antarctic ice broaden the range of conditions where at least basic lifeforms may set up housekeeping. In the first investigation, Hoover will work with David McKay who startled the scientific community in 1996 with claims that he had found evidence of microbial fossils in a rock believed to have fallen to Earth from Mars. While the evidence within the Allan Hills meteorite, ALH84001, continues to be debated, pictures and data from the Mars Pathfinder and Mars Global Surveyor missions have added evidence that Mars once had flowing water. "The primary research that we'll be doing is looking for microfossils in ancient rocks," Hoover said. He anticipates analyzing phosphorites from Mongolia, oil shale from Siberia, and other formations dating back about 3.8 billion years. The search for fossils of bacteria and archaea will be of prime importance. (Image Text: Left: Europa, as seen by the Galileo spacecraft, is covered with ice, apparently atop a world ocean, raising the possibility that conditions could be right for life - and similar to those in Lake Vostok, hidden under 3 km (1.8 mi) of Antarctic ice (right).) Life is divided into three principal domains, eukaryotes (large cells, like plants and animals), bacteria, and archaea. Archaea, only discovered in 1977, normally thrive in extreme conditions like the hot springs of Yellowstone National Park, thermal vents deep underwater in the mid-Atlantic ridge, highly acid and alkaline baths, and deep rocks. These are not normal conditions now, but were more than 3 billion years ago. --- "It's now looking like the archaea are among the most ancient forms of life on Earth," Hoover said. And the implication is that if life could originate and then thrive under such conditions here, then it could do the same on Mars and Europa - perhaps even volcanic Io - where conditions are considered inhospitable. Under the biosphere evolution study with Nealson at JPL, Hoover will develop methods to fix, prepare, and view samples so that unambiguous indications of life - or non-life - can be obtained. He will use advanced tools such as the Scanning Electron Microscope (ESEM) and atomic-force microscope that NASA/Marshall already has for engineering work. "One of the things that's important in preparation techniques is making sure that you get no interference from the substrate in the X-ray spectral analysis," Hoover said. NASA/Marshall's ESEM is especially good at analyzing biological materials without the need for special coatings. The detail revealed by the ESEM offers new challenges. (Image text: Samples of microbes found by the ESEM in deep ice from the Antarctic.) "The most critical thing is getting to the ability to recognize different types of microorganisms in tools such as the ESEM," Hoover said. "It's a very powerful tool, but it shows you things that you don't see in optical microscopes or conventional electron microscopes." That can mean relearning how to recognize creatures that you already know. Recognizing and classifying microbes and bacterial fossils in this manner will be doubly important in a field that has thousands of unnamed microbes. The rule in the international microbiology community is that an organism is not named unless it is grown in a pure culture and is lodged - physically - in a recognized cell bank. "In many cases, these bugs can't be grown in pure culture," Hoover said. Asking a bacterium from a deep ocean vent to grow in a lab culture is like asking a human to breath a vacuum. It takes more than recreating conditions like water temperatures above boiling (intense pressure keeps that water from boiling). Some creatures only survive with certain neighbors, like one bacteria that releases methane and another that consumes it. (Image text: At right, Hoover and Dr. S.S. Abyzov of Russia's Institute of Microbiology use the ESEM to probe deep ice from Antarctica for signs of life. (links to a 1,500x1,082-pixel, 576K JPG. Photo credit: NASA/Marshall Space Flight Center.)) --- Another challenge will be recognizing life when you see it. Hoover said he was recently stumped by a microsphere with a lot of iron. He was told by a colleague that it was indeed a bacterium that consumes iron sulfate - FeSO3 - to get oxygen. "That tells me that we have to learn the kinds of things that go on inside an electron microscope, and in other tools, with respect to microbiology," Hoover said, "because these are the kinds of tools we'll take to Mars and Europa when we look for life." "It's extremely important that we continue to learn and to develop an enhanced knowledge of microfossils, and of bacteria, eukaryotes, and archaea." Author: Dave Dooling Curator: Linda Porter NASA Official: Gregory S. Wilson Join our growing list of subscribers - *sign up for our express news delivery and you will receive a mail message every time we post a new story!!! related links *Exotic-looking microbes turn up in ancient Antarctic ice (March 12, 1998) *Clues to possible life on Europa may lie buried in Antarctic ice (March 5) *An Acrobat PDF copy of these stories *Astrobiology at NASA's Ames Research Center *Information about Arcaea from Earth & Sky
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 28 Filer's Files #21 From: Majorstar@aol.com [George A. Filer] Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 19:03:40 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 20:17:19 -0400 Subject: Filer's Files #21 Filer's Files #21-1998 MUFON Skywatch Investigations George A. Filer, MUFON Eastern Director, May 28, 1998, Majorstar@aol.com (609) 654-0020 UFO reports diminish with warmer weather. New planet found. ROSWELL DEBRIS PHOTOGRAPHS MAY HOLD SECRETS The University of Texas at Arlington in the Special Collections Section of t= he Main Library, has enlargements available for viewing or for purchase by the public. The photographs were taken by photographer by J. Bond Johnson of th= e alleged Roswell debris in General Ramey=92s office in 1947. Editors Note: Copies of these enlarged photographs are now being sent to us for analysis, thanks to the kindness of Bob Durant. The photographer, J. Bond Johnson has indicated to me that the foreground of these photos may contain evidence of unusual debris, that may help clarify the Roswell case. If the material appears terrestrial and mundane it would tend to support the Air Force Mogul balloon explanation for Roswell. If the photos show strange =91I=92 beams, = it will tend to corroborate the testimony of many witnesses that an alien craft crashed in New Mexico. CONNECTICUT INVESTIGATION CONTINUES Mark Cashman, MUFON Assistant State Director reports on his investigation of the April 29, UFO sighting that was first reported to the National Reporting Center. =91I just got in after two hours on site arriving 45 minutes after sunset. There was still some light in the sky. I spent a half hour at the reservoir, observing a variety of air traffic. The majority of the air traffic in the area goes from SW to NE. Only one bright landing light was seen on the NE side of the reservoir in the general direction of the sightin= g. I timed the auto traffic and found clumps to explain the witnesses account. = I took site photos and we were able to get good azimuth and elevation for several positions. It currently looks as if the object was over the NE end = of the reservoir. We did an on-site reenactment to verify the witnesses sketche= s. We also got a position over a landmark for one of the sight lines, so that o= ne is very solid. The witness indicates that the object lights were very brigh= t -- as bright as car high beams at a distance of 30 feet. There was no illumination of the trees. This suggests that the lights were beyond the reservoir on the NE side. The witness's speed was 40 to 45 mph before the first observation. The lights were bright enough to be seen through a fair thickness of trees before reaching the reservoir. He then saw one light exposed, then all. Hi= s speed then dropped to 30 mph or below. He slowed again and shifted his attention as he reached the intersecting road at the base of the hill. He then looked for the lights and saw them through the pines for perhaps anoth= er 0.1 mile. At that time two of the lights were 8 inches apart at arm's length. The witness is very familiar with the road and other cars may have observed the craft. He drives it as many as six times a day. There are lessor lights in the general area such as comparatively dim street lights. Otherwise, the area is very dark. He has never seen anything like the objec= t before or since. The story continues to hang together well. I detected no contradictions in this evening's story. The only plausible natural explanation would be a NW-SE formation flight of aircraft or helicopters. O= n May 2, I conducted a daylight visit to obtain good site photos obtained coordinates for the road and each of the triangulation locations using the GPS. I also did azimuth estimates again. The original measurements, have provided good results. Most importantly, I have mapped the 5 sight lines. The evidence indicates the craft was 500 feet from the witness and 145 feet from the shore at an altitude of 171 feet. The UFO is 118 feet across. Although, there may be a small an error factor, this looks like a good case and a good set of measurements.=92 Thanks to Mark Cashman, mcashman@ix.netcom.com PENNSYLVANIA Loy Lawhon writes: =91A friend of mine who is a pilot reported the following May 23, 1998, sighting to me. We had a ball game and cook out in Pittsburgh area at dusk when my husband pointed and said sarcastically to me, "look at that UFO!" I didn't see anything for a moment, but a shimmering shine caugh= t my eye. I gazed and spotted a huge craft and then my husband and I saw the second one simultaneously. Trailing behind at perhaps, a distance of 1/2 mi= le was another identical cigar shaped craft with rounded ends. My brother, his wife, and children, our children all watched these two things go very slowly across the sky at an altitude of 55,000 feet. There was no vapor trail and = no sound. Their speed was slower than an airliner, but three times larger than the biggest airliners. My 15 year old son was viewing it from a different angle said it was like two halves of a baseball. It was shiny silver and metallic. We watched for 5 minutes around 5 to 6:00 PM eastern time. Thank= s to epicurus.miningco.com http://ufos.miningco.com, phaedrus@ebicom.net A week earlier, on Sunday, May 17, 1998, two UFOs were reported in Western Pennsylvania at 8:15 PM. Four people in Belle Vernon, observed a UFO for 40 minutes. The object was about 65 degree's elevation through binoculars and looked like an illuminated donut. There was something that appeared to be hanging down from the object. While they watched, the object exploded into fragments and particles. A red sphere was then observed which minutes later split into two smaller objects. Thanks to Stan Gordon UFO Hotline. OHIO Kenny Young reports that a Western Hills resident near Cincinnati called to report that somebody told him of a UFO sighting on May 14, 1998. The witnes= s is a woman from Brown County, Ohio, who reported a strange event to the Brow= n County Sheriff's Office on Thursday night. Upon calling the Sheriff's offic= e, the woman was told there were fifty other calls regarding the incident that had been reported. The witness was in her trailer when she heard a loud BOO= M that shook "the whole area." The witness went outside to see what had happened, and was stunned to see a 'reddish-orange orb.' The object divided into five parts, that zigzagged around, rejoined and finally disappeared. Kenny Young contacted the Brown County Ohio State Patrol dispatcher who said that the event did happen, and that she, herself, heard the 'BOOM between 9 and 10 o'clock.' She also said that the Brown County Sheriff's office receiv= ed calls, she being one of them. "I was on duty when I heard the explosion." The Buckeye MOA (Military Operating Areas) where military training flights a= re conducted is nearby. Thanks to Kenny Young UFO Research http://home.fuse.net/task/ CALIFORNIA: Bill Hamiliton writes: It is time for the truth to be brought out. Behind t= he scenes high-ranking Air Force officers are soberly concerned about the UFOs. George, I could not agree more, but I am getting increasingly dubious that our leaders in government or the Pentagon are going to make any disclosures. On April 23rd we had a large (100-200 yards) octagonal craft with amber ligh= ts hover directly over Albertson's supermarket in Rosamond only a few miles fro= m Edwards AFB. All officials from Edwards and the FAA could say was that they had not picked up anything on radar and had no aircraft in that area. So someone suggested it might have been a helicopter with an advertising sign though it made no sound! Not much progress in 50 years. Thanks to Bill Hamilton and Skywatch. DAYLIGHT DISC SPOTTED IN BELGIUM On Saturday, May 9, 1998, Lawrence B. was at his home in Tervuren, Belgium when he looked up and spotted a bright gleam in the sky. "I was outside whe= n I saw a very small object in the sky at 2 p.m.," he reported. "It looked li= ke a star--looked metallic. I estimated its height (altitude) at a possible 40,000 feet (12,121 meters). It stayed stationary for about ten minutes. I= t couldn't have been a weather balloon because they do not stay geo-stationary at such a high altitude." Thanks to UFO Roundup Vol. 3, #21, 5/24/98 Editor= : Joseph Trainor ZIMBABWE: On May 21, 1998, reports have come in from all over Zimbabwe and east to the Mozambique border of light explosions and lights lasting almost a minute. Everyone is taking about it. One of my staff said she had just tuned on the light in her house in Harare and she remembers thinking that the light outsi= de was brighter than her light bulbs. Some compared it with atomic explosions! The event may have been a spectacular meteorite or something coming in from space. Thanks to John Thompson ISUR and Odette@aol.com NEW HAMPSHIRE UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR CLAIMS WE'RE AT WAR Amanda Milkovitst staff Writer for Foster's Sunday Citizen in Durham recentl= y interviewed University of New Hampshire Professor Dr. Ted Loder. UFOs are n= ot only real, they are already here. There is an interstellar war and a covert military-industrial group that's brainwashing Earthlings -- it's not a Hollywood feature, it's reality, says Professor Ted Loder of the University = of New Hampshire. Loder, a full-time professor of chemical oceanography at UNH= , has spent more than a year studying UFOs and alien reports, and says he's convinced they're no joke. Now the 57-year-old Seacoast man says he wants t= o "wake up" everyone else. Loder represented the state of New Hampshire in a closed congressional briefing last summer, where those who claim to have see= n UFOs requested a hearing with representatives from the White House, from the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and congressmen. Loder became interested in UFOs mor= e than a year ago. His cousin, who had worked under President Eisenhower, tol= d him that he'd seen material from a UFO that allegedly crashed in Roswell, N.M., in 1947. Professor Ted Loder stated in part, "One of the things that's going on, hard to believe it, is that we're basically at war with E. T. craft. STAR WARS w= as developed to shoot down UFOs; there's a lot of evidence about that if you start digging. STAR WARS was developed to shoot down Russian (missiles) -- that's the line we were given -- but the side venue was to be able to shoot down UFOs, using this advanced technology. And you talk to other people, wh= om I trust, and they talk to people in the military who have told them, yes, we have shot down UFOs. We are fundamentally at war with these guys, and you a= nd I don't know about that." See the entire interview at Tony Craddock http://www.cseti.org. EARTHLIGHTS, PLASMAS, OR UFOs? Mark Cashman reports, =91We shouldn't forget that we live on a giant= dynamo.' I rather suspect we are only just becoming aware of huge electromagnetic force= s at work. Sprites and jets were unknown to science until fairly recently because they are essentially unobservable without modern equipment or space based platforms. At any rate, the power sources required for detached plasm= as emitting MW of energy for extended periods required by Earthlights theories = at near sea level do not seem to be possible under non-thunderstorm atmospheric conditions. Also, energies that could create such plasmas do not seem to be present in the ground in areas known to be tectonically active. Earthquake detection researchers have looked hard, because of the potential for predictions. Further, the analyses by Earthlights proponents that claim to associate UFO sightings with tectonic activity seem to be fatally flawed. A= n Earthlights theory would require a high proportion of sightings in highly tectonically active areas such as the Pacific Rim. These areas do not have = a notably high incidence of UFO reports. Also of course, Earthlights theories fail to explain any solid structured object or occupant cases, without resorting to "electrically stimulated hallucination" theories. While there are some interesting claims of spooklights, the angular elevations of these seem to be low in the reports I have read, and a mirage is certainly a potential explanation for some of those cases.=92 Thanks to MUFON=92s Mark Cashman, mcashman@IX.NETCOM.COM UNCONVENTIONAL FLYING OBJECTS IS A MUST READ BOOK Hal Puthoff, Ph.D. from the Institute for Advanced Studies at Austin, TX provides a synopsis of the Unconventional Flying Objects, by NASA's Paul Hill, Hampton Roads Publ. Co., Charlottesville, VA 1995 (ISBN 1-57174-027-9)= . To the degree that the engineering characteristics of UFOs can be estimated = by empirical observation, in this reviewer's opinion the classic book by Paul Hill provides the most reliable, concise summary of engineering-type data available. The data were compiled over decades of research by a Chief Scientist-Manager at NASA Langley Research Center who acted as an informal clearinghouse for UFO-related data. The strength of the compilation lies in its thoughtful separation of wheat from chaff, and the analysis of the forme= r into coherent patterns, including detailed calculations. Perhaps surprising to the casually interested, under careful examination the observations, rath= er than defying the laws of physics as naive interpretation might suggest, instead appear to be solidly commensurate with them, as the following discussion shows. One of the most consistently-observed characteristics of UFO flight is a ubiquitous pattern in which they tilt to perform all maneuvers. Specifically, they sit level to hover, tilt forward to move forward, tilt backward to stop, bank to turn, and descend by "falling-leaf" = or "silver-dollar-wobble" motions. Detailed analysis by Hill shows that such motion is inconsistent with aerodynamic requirements, but totally consistent with some form of repulsive force-field propulsion. Not satisfied with pape= r analyses alone, Hill arranged to have various forms of jet-supported and rotor-supported circular flying platforms built and tested. Hill himself act= ed as test pilot in early, originally-classified, versions, and found the above motions the most economical for control purposes. Pictures of these platform= s are included in the text. In an effort to examine the force-field propulsio= n hypothesis yet further, Hill analyzed a number of cases involving near-field interactions with an apparent craft in which some form of force was in evidence. These include examples in which a person or vehicle was affected, tree branches were parted or broken, roof tiles were dislodged, objects were deflected and ground or water were disturbed. Under close analysis the subtleties of these interactions combine to point unequivocally to a repulsi= ve force field surrounding the craft, while discriminating against propulsion mechanisms involving jet action, pure electric or magnetic effects, or the emission of energetic particles or radiation (although the latter may accompany the propulsive mechanism as a secondary effect). Further detailed investigation indicates that the particular form of force field propulsion that satisfied observational constraints is what Hill labels a directed acceleration field; that is, a field that is, in general, gravitational-like in nature, and, in particular, gravity-canceling. Such a field acts on all masses in its sphere of influence as does a gravitational field. Corollary = to this conclusion is that observed accelerations ~ 100 g's relative to the environment could be sustained without on-board high-g forces. One of the consequences of the above identification of field propulsion type by Hill is his conclusion, supported by detailed calculation, computer simulation and wind-tunnel studies, that supersonic flight through the atmosphere without sonic booms is easily engineered. Manipulation of the acceleration-type for= ce field would, even at supersonic speeds, result in a constant-pressure, compression-free zone without shock wave in which the vehicle is surrounded = by a subsonic flow-pattern of streamlines, and subsonic velocity ratios. An additional benefit of such field control is that drops of moisture, rain, dust, insects, or other low-velocity objects would follow streamline paths around the craft rather than impact it. Another puzzle resolved by Hill's analysis is that craft observed to travel continuously at Mach 4 or 5 do not appear to generate temperatures sufficiently high to be destructive to known materials. In other words, UFOs appear to prevent high aerodynamic heating rates rather than permitting a heating problem to arise, then surviving it with heat-resistant materials as is the case of the Shuttle whose surface temperatures can reach 1300=BAC. The resolution of this potential problem i= s shown by Hill to derive from the fact that the force-field control that results in the prevention of shock wave drag as discussed above is also effective in preventing aerodynamic heating. In effect the airflow approaches, then springs away from the craft, depositing no energy in the process. A further example of the type of correlation that emerges from Hill's analytical approach is provided by an analysis of the economy of various flight-path profiles. It is shown that high-angle, high-acceleratio= n departures on ballistic-arc trajectories with high-speed coast segments are more efficient than, for example, intermediate-level, horizontal-path trips, both in terms of required impulse-per-unit-mass and time-of-flight parameter= s. This he correlates with the observation that UFO departures are of the dramatically high-angle, high-acceleration type. Also, Hill's analysis of t= he spectra and intensity of an apparent plasma sheath surrounding such craft, t= he details of which correlate with what one would expect in terms of it being a secondary effect associated with the propulsion system; for example, a blue shift and intensity increase during a "power-up" phase, and the opposite during hover and landing maneuvers. An additional fine point that emerges from analysis is resolution of the paradox that observation on a direct line= - of-sight to a near part of the craft can reveal a metallic-like structure while the attempt to observe the outline of the craft, necessarily by an oblique line-of-sight, results in an indistinct blur. Analysis shows this t= o be a reasonable outcome of an expected re-absorption of reflected light by t= he surrounding plasma in the longer-length path associated with the more obliqu= e view. Another typical nugget of information is found in Hill's discussion of the results of the analysis of a possible UFO artifact, the famous Ubatuba magnesium fragments claimed to have originated from an exploded unidentified craft near Ubatuba, Brazil. Laboratory analysis of the samples found the magnesium to be not only of exceptional purity, and anomalous in its trace composition of other elements, but 6.7% denser than ordinary pure magnesium,= a figure well beyond the experimental error of the measurement. Hill's calculation shows that this observation can be accounted for by assuming tha= t the sample contained only the pure isotope Mg-26, rather than the naturally- occurring distribution among isotopes Mg-24, Mg-25, and Mg-26. Since the onl= y isotope separation on a significant scale in terrestrial manufacture is that of uranium, such a result must be considered at least anomalous, and possibl= y as evidence for extraterrestrial manufacture. Additional calculations concerning the parameters of interstellar travel (including relativistic effects), and the energetics of such travel, have been performed and are included in tabular and graphical form. In the final analysis, one must conclude that Hill has assembled as good a case as can be made on the basis = of presently available data that the observation of some "unconventional flying objects" is compatible with the presence of engineered platforms weighing in at around 30 tons, which are capable of 100-g accelerations and 9000-mph speeds in the atmosphere. Perhaps more important for the technical reader, however, is Hill's supporting argumentation, based on solid analysis, that these platforms, although exhibiting the application of physics and engineering principles clearly beyond our present-day capabilities, do not appear to defy these principles in any fundamental way. Thanks to H.E. Puthoff, Ph.D. Institute for Advanced Studies at Austin, 4030 W. Braker Lane= , Ste. 300, TX 78759. MORE EVIDENCE OF WATER AND THERMAL ACTIVITY IN MARS' PAST New mineralogical and topographic evidence suggesting that Mars had abundan= t water and thermal activity in its early history is emerging from data gleane= d by NASA's Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft. Scientists are getting glimpses of this warmer, wetter past on Mars. Findings from data are being presented at the spring meeting of the American Geophysical Union. The Thermal Emissi= on Spectrometer instrument team, led by Dr. Philip Christensen has discovered t= he first clear evidence of an ancient hydrothermal system. This finding implies that water was stable at or near the surface and that a thicker atmosphere existed in Mars' early history. Initial profiles of the poles have also revealed a striking surface topology of canyons and spiral troughs in the water and carbon dioxide ice that can reach depths as great as 3,600 feet below the surface. Many of the deeper troughs display a staircase structure= , which may be correlated with seasonal layering of ice and dust and an extremely smooth surface. Thanks to NASA at http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/= NEW PLANET FOUND A new planet called TMR--6 has been found in another solar system by the Hubble telescope. Astronomers for the first time have discovered and photographed a planet outside our Solar system some two quadrilion miles away. It is located in t= he Constellation Taurus. Send your letters and comments to George Filer at Majorstar@aol.com.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 28 Re: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 09:35:31 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 21:03:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted _________________________________________________________ Dr. Bruce Maccabbee sent me a file attachment in response to the Jerry Blackwell/Kenny Young post: >Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 11:53:57 -0700 >From: "Kenny Young" <task@fuse.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted: Part 1 >Attachment Converted: "E:\Download\C5-25-98 RESPONSE.txt" Format wise, it's a mess. He has double line spaced everything and my software will not reformat it. And frankly, I'm not going to do it by hand. He has his caps-lock on for his responses - un-necessary (since Blackwell's original text is marked by '>' at the beginning of each line. And all-caps is considered 'SHOUTING'! I've sent him several e-mails about his post formatting. And I don't buy the 'AOL excuse' any more. In the past I've 'tidied up' his messages. Any future messages that don't conform to 'Netiquette' and the Posting Rules here will simply not make it to the List. The ugliness below could be have been avoided - I guess it's due to a lack of interest on Dr. Maccabee's part.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 29 OVNI BRASIL: Tumba Descoberta From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 21:43:14 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 00:10:45 -0400 Subject: OVNI BRASIL: Tumba Descoberta This item appeared in the newspaper El Comercio of Lima, Peru on May 28, 1998. If you can read Spanish, skip on down. For readers who can't, here's the story: Archeologists at Magdalena de Cao in northern Peru have just unearthed a tomb in a mud-brick pyramid at the El Brujo archeological complex. The tomb apparently dates from the pre-Inca Moche civilization of 1500 B.C. Within the tomb, archeologist Regulo Franco Jordan and his team found an unusually large quantity of manufactured metal objects, Mochica ceramics and the remains of two women. One woman was aged 35 to 40, a virtual "Queen Tut" of the defunct Mochica civilization. The other was a young woman aged 18 to 20 who was presumably sacrificed at the older women's funeral, possibly to serve as a handmaiden in the afterlife. And you thought the stuff going on at Giza was strange! Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 21:00:07 -0300 From: Pedro Cunha <pplfilho@nutecnet.com.br> To: "Ovnibr-l@listbox.com" <ovnibr-l@listbox.com> Subject: OVNI BRASIL: Tumba Descoberta LISTA OVNI BRASIL ---------------------------------------------<=3DO=3D> Mensagem recebida de Pedro Cunha <pplfilho@nutecnet.com.br> <=3DO=3D>--------------------------------------------- Do El Comercio (PERU), 28/05/198: Publicado en el Web:27 de Mayo de 1998, 22:17 Tumba de importante personaje mochica descubren en La Libertad TRUJILLO.- Los restos =F3seos de un importante personaje femenino perteneciente a la cultura mochica fueron descubiertos por arque=F3logos en una tumba desenterrada en la huaca de Cao Viejo, del complejo arqueol=F3gico de El Brujo. All=ED se hall=F3 adem=E1s gran cantidad de objetos de metal, ceramios y restos de otra mujer que, presuntamente, fue sacrificada durante la ceremonia de entierro del personaje principal. El hallazgo de la tumba conteniendo estos restos, considerados por los investigadores como piezas importantes para reconstruir el pasado mochica, se produjo el viernes 22 de mayo, inici=E1ndose las excavaciones el lunes =FAltimo. El arque=F3logo Regulo Franco Jord=E1n, director del proyecto de investigaci=F3n del Complejo arqueol=F3gico El Brujo, que se desarrolla en el distrito de Magdalena de Cao, provincia de Ascope, detall=F3 que la tumba fue ubicada en el extremo sudoeste de la plataforma superior del templo Moche de Cao. En su interior se hall=F3 el esqueleto de una mujer de aproximadamente 35 a 40 a=F1os de edad rodeado de un rico ajuar funerario. En la parte lateral izquierda de la misma tumba se hall=F3 los huesos de otra mujer de unos 18 a 20 a=F1os de edad, que presuntamente fue sacrificada. En el interior de la tumba se hall=F3 una gran cantidad de objetos de metal, ceramios y restos de otra mujer. (Foto: Francisco Vallejos) El investigador indic=F3 que este personaje habr=EDa vivido unos 400 a=F1os despu=E9s de Cristo. "Al hacer las excavaciones en el sitio, se encontr=F3 con un piso blanco el mismo que al ser retirado dej=F3 al descubierto una tumba de aproximadamente 25 metros cuadrados que ten=EDa una profundidad de tres metros. Lo incre=EDble es que cuando profundizamos a 1,5 metros, encontramos una c=E1mara interior muy bien elaborada, pintada con figuras de personajes, cuyos colores reconocidos hasta el momento son rojo, blanco y ocre-amarillo", dijo.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 29 Re: Just For Grins From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 07:06:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 07:47:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Just For Grins >Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 07:17:45 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> >Subject: Just For Grins >Greetings EBK, List Members, and others who may be getting >a copy of this. >Since everyone has been so serious of late, I thought I would >make you all aware of a site that I have just put up that is >STRICTLY FOR GRINS. If you can appreciate the humor in all of >this, check out: >http://members.xoom.com/InfoHead/tapra/humor.html >This site will likely grow in the future. >Thanks for your attention. >Glenn Joyner Well, Glenn, I went, I looked. I didn't think it was funny. For a genuinely funny site I recommend: http://www.laugh-your-ass-off.com/index1.html Bob Shell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 29 Re: Trans-Lunar Phenomena - 98/05/26 From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:18:05 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 07:49:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Trans-Lunar Phenomena - 98/05/26 Jakes E. Louw louwje@telkom.co.za >From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com> >To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Trans-Lunar Phenomena - 98/05/26 >Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 10:25:14 -0500 >Considering it was a new moon last night (and therefore the moon >is 'lost' in the glare of the sun, as far as we are concerned), I >consider the report bogus. >Brian Sorry, Brian, but it's not new moon here in SA: its definitely waxing at the moment, with about a one-quarter crescent.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 29 Whidbey Island Crop Circles (The Daily Herald) From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 06:16:33 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 00:33:24 -0400 Subject: Whidbey Island Crop Circles (The Daily Herald) >From The Daily Herald, Everett, Washington. URL: http://www.heraldnet.com/Stories/98/5/28/circles.htm Stig ******* Say it, they will come Report of crop circles brings throng to Whidbey Island By GEORGIE SMITH Staff Writer COUPEVILLE -- Curious onlookers, television media, UFO enthusiasts and crop-circle experts showed up in droves Wednesday after a nationally syndicated radio talk show reported the discovery of unusual formations in barley fields just south of Coupeville. "Basically I saw a lot of bent grass," said Port Townsend resident Mike Kenna who took an early morning ferry to Whidbey Island after hearing about the crop circles Tuesday on a late-night radio talk show. Kenna and many others who turned out Wednesday had their curiosity aroused by Coupeville resident Kelly Sweeney, who relayed his experience investigating a field of fallen barley alongside Highway 20 on "Coast to Coast AM." The program, hosted by Art Bell, focuses on UFOs and other tales of strange phenomena. Sweeney said he was contacted by the radio program after he called the National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle and reported he found "some kind of a pictograph" in the field. "It's almost like somebody had drawn a line," Sweeney said of the formation. "Everything inside this line is going to lie down, everything outside is going to stand up. It blew me away." >From Kenna's skepticism to Sweeney's fascination with the field, there were a variety of opinions about what -- or who -- could have caused the formations. "There are certainly intriguing similarities (with other crop circles)," said crop-circle investigator Ilyes, who goes by only one name and who rushed to Whidbey Island from Portland after receiving reports about the strange formations. Ilyes is the national coordinator for the Center for Crop Circle Studies/U.S. Network and has traveled to England for the past seven years investigating crop circles. She said that although she found some evidence of crop circles within the Coupeville formations, they showed definite signs of randomness not associated with the precise patterns discovered in crop circles elsewhere. Perhaps, Ilyes theorized, there was a crop circle pattern in the fields that had been damaged by recent foul weather. But, she added, "I wouldn't bet my car on it." Ilyes and members of the Mutual Unidentified Flying Object Network (MUFON) used metal rods like the wires used for water witching to test the barley fields for unusual energy fields. Meanwhile, Coupeville farmers Don and Roger Sherman, who own the field the formation was found in, explained the bent barley to a steady stream of curious onlookers and MUFON members as a combination of overfertilizing, heavy rain and high winds, not as the work of alien beings. When grass crops receive too much nitrogen and grow too quickly the stalk often becomes too weak to support a single blade and "lodges," or falls over, Don Sherman said. Typically farmers experience lodging every year, although this year some of their fields definitely had more lodging than normal. "If there's extraterrestrials out there and they can figure out a way to bring my crop back to life, well then, I'm a believer," Don Sherman said. Comments: newmedia@heraldnet.com Copyright =A9 1998 The Daily Herald Co., Everett, Wash.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 29 Skywatch: Area 51 Still Operational From: StarmanBH@aol.com [Bill Hamilton] Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:43:22 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:06:49 -0400 Subject: Skywatch: Area 51 Still Operational AREA 51 IS STILL OPERATIONAL I spent Memorial Day weekend at the UFO Friendship campout in Rachel, Nevada. Chuck Clark briefed us on his update of information on Area 51 among the speakers at the 2-day event. Showing videotape of the workers arriving on the morning bus and cars parked at the Crystal Springs parking lot as well as recent movements of security vehicles and a very good shot of a Russian Hynd Helicopter overflying the area, Chuck positively refuted the Popular Mechanics story and the subsequent Discovery channel story that Area 51 had been moved to Utah. Chuck referred to the billions of dollars of equipment that are invested in the underground facilities (including the world's largest DC generator), the 30,000-foot runway (long enough for 2 space shuttles to land facing each other and come to a rolling stop more than a .5 mile apart), and the continued testing of exotic new aircraft technologies speaks for continued investment in the Area 51 facilities. For all the UFO fans, Chuck showed video of a flying disc that approached 2 men in a car parked near the (now) white mailbox. There was excellent footage as the disc wobbled and dipped for 11 seconds. I saw a post at one website that stated that if anyone purveys the idea that UFOs are out at Area 51 or flying around out there, then such are disinformers. Sorry, not the case. UFOs have been seen out there on numerous occasions -- classic UFOs -- and some of them rise up from an area that has been designated S-4. Yes, S-4 does exist and some of the craft have been seen coming from this area, BUT NOT ALL... some have overflown the test site coming from the north! We were also given excellent information by Ron Regher who discussed the Fast Walker incidents picked up by our DSP satellites. Apparently some of the UFOs detected by satellites are reffered to as Uncorrelated Targets (UCTs). We could hold an annual Skywatch gathering at Rachel or Giant Rock in the California desert. Let me hear from anyone who would like to come to such an outdoor event. Sincerely, Bill Hamilton Executive Director Skywatch International, Inc. *************************** SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL INC. (A Non-Profit Organization)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 29 Hubble Takes First Image of Planet Around Another From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 13:15:38 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:12:06 -0400 Subject: Hubble Takes First Image of Planet Around Another Don Savage Headquarters, Washington, DC May 28, 1998 (Phone: 202/358-1547) Bill Steigerwald Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, MD (Phone: 301/286-5017) Ray Villard Space Telescope Science Institute, Baltimore, MD (Phone: 410/338-4514) RELEASE: 98-91 HUBBLE TAKES FIRST IMAGE OF A POSSIBLE PLANET AROUND ANOTHER STAR AND FINDS A RUNAWAY WORLD NASA's Hubble Space Telescope has given astronomers their first direct look at what is possibly a planet outside our solar system -- one apparently that has been ejected into deep space by its parent stars. The discovery, made by Susan Terebey of the Extrasolar Research Corporation in Pasadena, CA, and her team using Hubble's Near Infrared Camera and Multi-Object Spectrometer (NICMOS), further challenges conventional theories about the birth and evolution of planets, and offers new insights into the formation of our own Solar System. Located in the sky within a star-forming region in the constellation Taurus, the object, called TMR-1C, appears to lie at the end of a strange filament of light that suggests it has apparently been flung away from the vicinity of a newly forming pair of binary stars. At a distance of 450 light-years, the same distance as the newly formed stars, the candidate protoplanet would be ten thousand times less luminous than the Sun. If the object is a few hundred thousand years old, the same age as the newly formed star system which appears to have ejected it, then it is estimated to be 2-3 times the mass of Jupiter, the largest gas giant planet in our Solar System. Also possible is that the object is up to ten million years old, the same age as other young stars nearby, in which case it may be a giant protoplanet or a brown dwarf star. A brown dwarf star is a small star that has failed to sustain nuclear fusion. The candidate protoplanet is now 130 billion miles from the parent stars and predicted to be hurtling into interstellar space at speeds up to 20,000 miles per hour (10 kilometers/sec) -- destined to forever drift among the Milky Way's starry population. Hubble researchers estimate the odds at two percent that the object is instead a chance background star. "If the results are confirmed, this discovery could be telling us gas giant planets are easy to build. It seems unlikely for us to happen to catch one flung out by the stars unless gas giant planets are common in young binary systems," said Terebey. "The results don't directly tell us about the presence of any terrestrial planets, like Earth," she adds. "However, we believe gas giants do influence the formation of much smaller rocky planets." Current models predict that very young giant planets are still warm from gravitational contraction and formation processes. This makes them relatively bright in infrared light compared to old giant planets such as Jupiter. Even so, young planets are difficult to find in new solar systems because the glare of the central star drowns out their feeble glow. Young planets ejected from binary systems would therefore represent a unique opportunity to study extrasolar planets with current astronomical technology. The discovery also challenges conventional theories that predict gas giant planets take millions of years to coagulate from dust in space. Instead, it favors more recent ideas that large, low-density planets may condense out of gas very quickly, at the same time their parent star does. "This observation pushes back the clock on planet formation and offers short time scales which allow us to see how things form. This provides valuable new clues to the origin of our Solar System," says Terebey. The candidate protoplanet was accidentally discovered by Terebey and colleagues while studying Hubble infrared images of newly formed protostars in a molecular cloud in Taurus. The exquisite sensitivity and sharpness of NICMOS clearly revealed the object's pinpoint image. However, it might have been dismissed as a background star if not for the presence of a bizarre 130- billion-mile-long filamentary structure that bridges the space between the binary pair and the candidate protoplanet. "I said to myself, 'This is really weird, what in the world could it be?'" recalls Terebey. She speculates it could be a tunnel the runaway object burrowed through a dust cloud surrounding the stars. This created a "light tube" which channels light from the stars deep inside their dusty cocoon - like a light beam traveling through a length of fiber optic cable. This brought Terebey to the tantalizing possibility that the planet had been flung into deep space by a gravitational "slingshot" effect from its parent stars. This could have happened if the planet's orbit allowed it to rob momentum from the stars and pick up so much speed that it escaped the system, similar to the way spacecraft perform gravitational "slingshot" maneuvers to pick up speed by flying close by a planet. "We know that many triple star systems eventually toss out the lowest mass star. And we can predict the speed at which the object should be moving, based on the separation of the binary stars," said Terebey. Future observations call for images taken at a later date, to confirm the object's predicted movement across the sky. In addition, the spectrum of the object will tell whether the object is a background star, brown dwarf, or something whose spectrum is less easy to predict, such as a giant protoplanet. "We will just have to wait and see if future observations confirm this picture," said Terebey. "However it turns out, we have come to appreciate that protoplanet ejection by young binary stars ought to happen, and it offers a new way to search for giant planets." "These future observations will be critical in verifying that this object is truly a planet and not a brown dwarf," said Dr. Ed Weiler, Director of the Origins Program at NASA Headquarters, Washington, DC. "We are sharing this preliminary data with the public at a very early stage in the research process because of its potential importance and because of the compelling nature of the image. If the planet interpretation stands up to the careful scrutiny of future observations, it could turn out to be the most important discovery by Hubble in its 8 year history". The members of the research team include Susan Terebey (Extrasolar Research Corp.), Dave Van Buren, Deborah L. Padgett, Jet Propulsion Lab, Pasadena, CA (JPL), Terry Hancock (Extrasolar Research Corp.), and Michael Brundage, JPL. The Space Telescope Science Institute is operated by the Association of Universities for Research in Astronomy, Inc. (AURA) for NASA, under contract with the Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, MD. The Hubble Space Telescope is a project of international cooperation between NASA and the European Space Agency (ESA). - end - NOTE TO EDITORS: Images to accompany this release are available to news media representatives by calling the Headquarters Imaging Branch on 202/358-1900. NASA photo number: Color: 98-HC-191 Images and information about this discovery can also be found on the Internet at: http://oposite.stsci.edu/1998/19
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 29 New Dawn Breaks For Airships After 60-year Gap From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:24:00 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:24:00 -0400 Subject: New Dawn Breaks For Airships After 60-year Gap From: Infobeat http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=2554370370-4fe 12:16 PM ET 05/28/98 FEATURE-New Dawn Breaks For Airships After 60-year Gap By Richard Meares JOHANNESBURG, South Africa (Reuters) - Thanks to new technology, tourists could soon be peering down on the world from luxury floating bedrooms, just as they did in the 1930s. Acres of cut flowers may also glide quietly over your head in the not-too-distant future on their way to market. A new dawn for the airship is on the horizon, six decades after a hideous accident killed off the gracious form of travel. A dozen companies around the world are racing to be the first to get a new-millennium model off the ground. The craft may be a familiar cigar shape or even triangular and is planned in many sizes from 250 feet -- a bit longer than a Boeing 747 -- to more than 6,000 feet long. Germany's Zeppelin company, whose founder's name became a synonym for his invention, is building a 12-seater with a semi-rigid frame for hourlong tourist jaunts at $250 per person. South Africa's Hamilton Airship Company has grander plans for a 460-foot-long ship to cross the Atlantic, 60 years after the last one, and hopes its prototype will fly by July. ``The Atlantic has always been the route in the world where you prove your technology,'' director Jonathan Hamilton said. Industry studies estimate around 1,000 airships that can carry 10 tons each will be needed over the next two decades to carry out weather tests, fight fires, drop humanitarian cargo in inaccessible areas, move troops or conduct surveillance. Former U.S. Secretary of State Alexander Haig wants to place enormous Zeppelins high above the world's cities to transmit Internet, video and phone calls to the masses below. Others envisage airships as jumbo cargo carriers, ideal for light bulky loads like flowers, but the South Africans want to revive the stylish opulence of the brief airship era. FIREBALL ENDED AIRSHIP'S HEYDAY The Zeppelin's time in the limelight lasted until 1937 when the Hindenburg, kept afloat by flammable hydrogen, burst into flames, killing 36 people as it moored near New York. The 800-foot German ship had just crossed the Atlantic on a voyage that was the last word in comfort at the time. Pampered passengers could lounge in the piano bar, play billiards and even smoke in a secured cabin. But war, the jet age and travel for the masses conspired to bury the airship, even though the substitution of nonflammable helium for hydrogen removed the main danger. Planes became faster, cheaper and bigger. But the costs of an airship have been plunging down recently due to modern materials, computer-aided design and other technologies. ``To build a Hindenburg now would cost $6 billion. They had no plastic and used the intestines of two million cows for the gas bags. The rivets were done by hand,'' Hamilton said. Today builders use sturdy tear-resistant fabrics such as Tedlar and light materials such as carbon fiber. Airships can now be mass produced and compressed air can help the craft take off and land on spaces as small as a city-center helipad. NOT AN INSECT, BUT A WHALE The Hindenburg was built on insect lines, with a skeleton on its outside. Hamilton's ship will be more like a whale with ribs around a central spine, a design he says is more stable. Also in the airship's favor, priorities have changed to favor quieter, cleaner means of transport. Airships make less noise and use less fuel than planes. Larger ones should be able to carry the load of a whole convoy of trucks, relieving road congestion and cutting pollution. Cargolifter of Berlin, backed by a consortium that includes Siemens AG, plans a giant airship for loads of up to 160 tons, bigger than any aircraft. But the most ambitious plan is from a professor at Illinois Institute of Technology, who says his mile-and-half-long AeroCarrier could take 3,500 passengers and 35,000 tons of cargo, four times as much as the biggest ship. Airships will still fly at only 60-90 mph but enthusiasts say speed is not the point. ``Our airship will be like the Orient Express of the sky or an ocean liner that can also go over land,'' Hamilton's marketing manager Annemarie Roux said. It would take about five days to ferry 65 passengers to New York from London and twice that from Cape Town, depending partly on the winds. High teas, black-tie dinners, a ballroom and three decks to roam on should help pass the time. Hamilton has spent $3 million and plans a listing on the Johannesburg Stock Exchange to find the $30 million still needed -- about a fifth of the cost of a Boeing 747 -- for his first ship. President Mandela has agreed it can be called the Nelson after him. ``This may appear as a flamboyant exercise or as a folly to some but for us it is a serious business,'' said Hamilton, who insists airship travel will be extremely safe. In its advertising campaign, the company plans to highlight the magnificent views from luxury cabins flying at just 500 feet. That is low enough to watch wildebeest roam the east African plains or watch street life in New York -- if your pilot dodges the skyscrapers. REUTERS
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 29 Press Release - Mars Ice in Craters From: "Yvonne Hedenland" <vonni_h@email.msn.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 07:20:33 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:42:04 -0400 Subject: Press Release - Mars Ice in Craters Boston (May 28) Mars Researchers Find Likely Ice in Mars Craters The Society for Planetary SETI Research today announced that their analysis of the craters shown in the April images captured by NASA's Mars Global Surveyor indicates that several may well contain frozen pools of ice. SPSR researcher and geologist Harry Moore discovered that several craters in the image captured by MGS on April 24 show craters with what appear to be flat, highly reflective surfaces in their centers. A crater located in the upper one-third of the April 24 image, not only clearly shows the apparently flat surface in its bottom but also shows the afternoon sun reflecting off the flat surface and leaving a circular reflection of light on the far crater wall. In addition, poster sessions by various SPSR members at the American Geophysical Union Spring meetings in Boston will conclude that the controversial feature often called the Mars "face" is most likely an artificial construction, and that it shows strong evidence of having been eroded by water runoff. Image scientist Dr. Mark Carlotto's AGU paper shows that the general symmetry of the Mars face is between 92 and 99%, depending on the measuring system, while SPSR geologist James Erjavec points toward strong evidence of water-based erosion of the Mars face. Since it's highly unlikely even on Mars that these indications of erosion could have survived four billion years, the indication is that Mars had an active water environment far more recently than standard Mars theory would previously have suggested. Combined, these three findings all point toward a past Mars which was much more Earthlike than Mars scientists previously thought and make it likely that the water era on Mars may have lasted until around 500 million years ago. However, SPSR cautions that all findings are tentative and SPSR President Dr. Horace Crater said that SPSR strongly supports NASA Director Dan Goldin's calls for Mars Global Surveyor to capture many more images of Cydonia in order to settle once and for all the questions about possible artificial features there. Crater, of the University of Tennessee Space Institute, also recommended that NASA perform extensive spectrographic analysis of the entire Cydonia region of the Northern Plains of Mars in order to determine if the SPSR's early findings of possible frozen surface water on Mars are confirmed. Crater said that if the early findings of Martian surface water ice hold up, that it may be far easier for NASA to establish human settlements on Mars than was previously expected. The likelihood of Mars holding all the resources necessary for successful human settlement was also bolstered by the findings of Mars meteorite researcher Dr. John Brandenburg, whose paper presented to the AGU onThursday concludes that the highly organic carbonaceous chondrite meteorites are very probably from Mars. Since their composition is quite similar to oil shale bearing rocks found on Earth, similar layers of such material on Mars would probably provide all the organic material necessary for developing plastics, liquid propellants and heating fuel. The SPSR is a collection of Phds, professors and other credentialed researchers and scientists, some of whom have spent up to the last twenty years analyzing possible evidence for extraterrestrial artifacts on Earth and other planets of the solar system. Many of their findings are summarized in the recent book, The Case for the Face: Scientists Examine the Evidence for Alien Artifacts on Mars, available from Adventures Unlimited Press and through many of the major book chains nationwide. Dr. Brandenburg will be at the Book Expo America on Saturday at the SCB Book Distributors in Chicago to discuss the findings of the SPSR and to promote The Case for the Face. Several online articles about the findings of the SPSR may be found at the following web sites: http://www.psrw/~markc/marshome.html/ http://www.mcdanielreport.com, as well as extensive recent coverage at http://forums.msn.com/ufo http://www.abcnews.com/ Media contacts may be initiated through Mind Into Matter, 773-381-1122, Fax 773-381-1899, email hoomai@aol.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 29 Re: Trans-Lunar Phenomena - 98/05/26 From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 12:42:35 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) Fwd Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 12:58:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Trans-Lunar Phenomena - 98/05/26 > Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:18:05 +0200 > From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Trans-Lunar Phenomena - 98/05/26 -Reply <snip> > Sorry, Brian, but it's not new moon here in SA: its definitely > waxing at the moment, with about a one-quarter crescent. Hi Jake, According to the Royal Astronomical Society of Canada's Observer's Handbook, New Moon this month was on May 25 at 19h 32m Universal (Greenwich) Time. On the evening of May 26 that the alleged TLP (transient lunar phenomena) was observed, the Moon was about a "day old". People would have observed a very thin crescent while the rest of the Moon would have been bathed in sunlight reflected off the Earth (the "old Moon" in the arms of the "new Moon" effect) and there really wouldn't be any dark part. Also the Moon would have been low in the night (twilight) sky for a short time, setting soon after the sun did. The closer the Moon is to the horizon, the more likelyhood clouds; distant airplanes and even mirages could have produced the reported TLP. Of course the lunar crescent would be much larger on May 29 when you observed it (the same everywhere in the world). First Quarter Moon is on June 2, 01h 45m U.T. One of my activities in the past was working in Saudi Arabia as a memeber of the New Moon patrol. Although we can calculate the date and time of the New Moon, the start of the next lunar month could not start officially until a very thin crescent was observed visually, usually a day or so after the New Moon, unless the country was completely clouded over for days. Nick Balaskas
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 29 Re: Skywatch: Area 51 Still Operational From: "John Cussen (CMG UK Limited)" <john.cussen@cmgplc.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:23:10 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 09:25:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Skywatch: Area 51 Still Operational >From: StarmanBH@aol.com [Bill Hamilton] >Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:43:22 EDT >To: skyopen@unix.ltlb.com >Subject: (Skyopen) AREA 51 STILL OPERATIONAL >AREA 51 IS STILL OPERATIONAL Dear All, Sorry to sound down about this but quite frankly I'm reaching a point of despair and disillusionment about this whole subject lately, and I need something to get me going again. This message is really an impassioned plea from someone who has lost his way, so please, if you can, understand and help me? I don't know about any of you, but I feel that serious UFO studies have lost some of the pace they seemed to have picked up a few years ago. Crop Circles are not news anymore (no thanks to mass hoaxing, particularly here in England). Nothing came of investigations into the authenticity of the Roswell Autopsy film except stalling and counter-stalling (even a proven discrediting would have been more interesting than nothing, and the only believable theories have been discrediting ones anyway, such as the infamous statement about the positioning of the hands on the clock). And all those things that seemed so exciting, so right on the edge of serious revelations; Cosmic Journey, Bob Lazar etc., just didn't seem to amount to anything. Consequently, I'm feeling a bit cynical about Pathfinder and Mars Global Surveyor I don't think they'll show us anything startling from that mission, even if it's broadcast "live" across the internet. Indeed, the most startling and sinking feeling I've had is how those images look nothing like the original Viking images. It's all very well to say "Ah, but, they've altered the images to keep the truth away from us.. " blah blah blah. Is that really a sober, intellectually based, objective and open-minded argument? Of course it isn't. How can two sets of images show such remarkably different effects? Image manipulation? Possible but I doubt it. An optical illusion caused by angle of lighting in the initial Viking images (NASA's official statement)? Possible and, quite frankly, reasonable. The Surveyor's images showing the truth? I have to say, I think that's highly likely although not I'm still not entirely sure. (Hand on heart, I think I'm still hanging on to the hope that they will confirm what most of us want to believe (artificial origins), even though it may well be no such thing after all). It's not enough to be shown some abstract and blurred mess and for someone to then draw out their hypothesis on what we are looking at. It's not unreasonable to say that I want something clear, where I can see it before I'm made to 'see' it," is it, really? It's reasonable and expected when someone says they've seen a great piece of video footage for the rest of us to say "I want to see it too". It's not reasonable and it's not enough for us to say we'll just take someone's word. I want physical, visual, evidence, of any size or shape or form, where I can say "That is something I'm really not sure about," - I don't want anymore "I saw this" type of testimonial evidence. Even visual evidence is often proven to be natural phenomenon - this doesn't make it any less interesting or fascinating or exciting. But it is something we can grab a hold of, mentally at least, and see that it really does exist. That really is not too much to ask and I'm getting tired of having to ask for it. How many times have any of us said "Yes, but, do you have PROOF?" and received a negative response. Why aren't there non-fuzzy, non-shaky, daytime, close-up film clips of... well, whatever it is? Does no-one own a tripod?! I want to believe, folks, but I want to believe the truth or at least to be able to say "This is what I've seen and this is how it's touched me". Faith is not enough, not anymore. I always thought that pushing UFO studies into the mainstream would help legitimise it as a scientific pursuit. But instead it has become popularised as another form of entertainment, and the hardcore stuff marginalised into even more of a fringe interest. Oh woe. Do any of you feel the same frustration that I feel? Is there anything to point me, guide me, that will lift my spirits up and give me reasons or encouragement to get interested in this area again? I need it, I really do. I respect the right to opinions and beliefs, and I need mine strengthened again, soon. Best wishes to you all. John Cussen, London UK e-mail john.cussen@cmgplc.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 29 UFOs and Grassroot Action: What next? From: MDJ50@webtv.net (Mike Jamieson) Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 07:57:53 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:15:15 -0400 Subject: UFOs and Grassroot Action: What next? For over fifty years the UFO mystery has been an object of occasional public attention. And though UFOs have become a very popular theme in entertainment, the issue has not received the type of serious attention from journalists, scientists and political leaders that is necessary for developing an understanding of this important matter. The idea (and name) of Operation Right to Know manifested in the fall of 1991 when Ed Komarek and I began planning for our first event, an educational display at the White House ellipse for a week in March 1992. People began responding to the idea of ORTK and in July 1993 we held a demonstration and rally at the White House, an event many of you may remember. ORTK events followed at the Pentagon, GAO, in Chicago, in Los Angeles, in London and elsewhere with fair to good press coverage (though local DC tv ridiculed us, causing us to turn down a morning after interview). But with all that, no mass movement has arisen to fight UFO secrecy (no where ne ar it). Given this atmosphere, ORTK organizers are wondering, what's next? Of course, we have announced our plans for a demonstration at the White House (for July 1999). But it's hard to argue with some of the points raised so far in response to those plans. Therefore, this posting is presented for the purpose of soliciting people"s thoughts re.: (1) alternative forms of action (other than conventional demonstrations; (2) alternative settings (other than White House); and (3) message content. We (ORTK organizers) are not stubbornly locked into specific plans at this time. The feedback to date on the 1999 plan has us thinking over the nature of our plans. Thank you.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 29 Re: UFO Burnout [was: Area 51 Still Operational] From: "Betty A. Wells" <bawells@ibm.net> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:58:30 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:40:31 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Burnout [was: Area 51 Still Operational] > Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:23:10 +0100 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: "John Cussen (CMG UK Limited)" <john.cussen@cmgplc.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Skywatch: Area 51 Still Operational > >From: StarmanBH@aol.com [Bill Hamilton] > >Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:43:22 EDT > >To: skyopen@unix.ltlb.com > >Subject: (Skyopen) AREA 51 STILL OPERATIONAL > >AREA 51 IS STILL OPERATIONAL > Dear All, > Sorry to sound down about this but quite frankly I'm reaching a > point of despair and disillusionment about this whole subject > lately, and I need something to get me going again. This message > is really an impassioned plea from someone who has lost his way, > so please, if you can, understand and help me? >John Cussen: Thank you for saying what I also feel but couldn't or wouldn't say. I agree 100%! I just want something tangible......no matter how small. I'm still hoping too! Betty Wells Maryland, USA
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 29 Re: Trans-Lunar Phenomena - 98/05/26 From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:04:48 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:20:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Trans-Lunar Phenomena - 98/05/26 >>Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:18:05 +0200 >>From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Trans-Lunar Phenomena - 98/05/26 -Reply >From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com> >To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Trans-Lunar Phenomena - 98/05/26 >Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 10:25:14 -0500 >Considering it was a new moon last night (and therefore the moon >is 'lost' in the glare of the sun, as far as we are concerned), I >consider the report bogus. >Brian >>Sorry, Brian, but it's not new moon here in SA: its definitely >>waxing at the moment, with about a one-quarter crescent. Interesting. My moon calendar shows a new moon on the 26th, which I believe is the date you said the TLP was reported. I'm sure that the moon's phase is the same wherever you are on the earth. I agree that now (29th), the moon is in first quarter. Brian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 29 Nua Blather: Hotrocks or Humbugs? From: Dave Walsh <dave@nua.ie> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 15:29:08 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:16:41 -0400 Subject: Nua Blather: Hotrocks or Humbugs? ******************************************************************* NUA BLATHER NUA BLATHER NUA BLATHER Weekly free email of Dogma Destruction, Forteana and High Weirdness By Daev Walsh Email: blather@nua.ie Web: http://www.nua.ie/blather/ ******************************************************************* May 29 1998 Published By: Nua Limited Vol 2. No. 3 ******************************************************************* HOTROCKS OR HUMBUGS? On last week's show, Blather dealt with two reports of alleged Irish meteorite hits - both of which seemed to be accompanied by a considerable amount of spurious baggage. (http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives2/issue2no2.html) With regard to the Co. Fermanagh incident of December 13th, I spoke to David Moore of Astronomy Ireland (http://ireland.iol.ie/~ai/) last weekend, who referred me to a full page article in the March 1998 issue of *Astronomy & Space* (available through the AI website), which I had somehow overlooked. The magazine has a photograph of the crater, showing a *very* boggy waterlogged field, with a muddy water-filled hole in the foreground. The hole is surrounded by clumps of wed sod, *suggesting* that they had been blown outwards from the hole. According to the article (which concurs with the Irish Times on the size of the hole, therefore hinting that this too is the correct measurement as measured by Armagh Planetarium), a 'drinking trough' *and* a milk churn was blasted apart, with 1kg fragments (2.2lb) of the trough found up to 40m (131ft) away. The explosion was estimated -- presumably by the British Army -- to have been causing by the equivalent of 2kg (4.4lb) of Semtex. The Army scoured the area, but on finding no evidence of explosives, called in Armagh Planetarium. They spent four days -- more than a month after the incident -- surveying a site which had by then been well trampled by soldiers and cattle, and the crater was full of ice. They talked to local people and learned of blue flashes which lasted several seconds on the night of the explosion, illuminating rooms in some cases. The article goes on to state that 'The steep walls and symmetry of the crater as well as the pattern of ejecta surrounding it, would seem to indicate that the meteorite was a relatively large body which entered the atmosphere at a high angle, exploding at, or even just below ground level.' However, contrary to the normal run of meteorite sites, there were no obvious meteorite fragments within the crater, apart from the small 1-1.5mm (0.039"-0.059") chunk of 'possibly meteoric material adhering to a part of the steel drum' - presumably the milk churn. However it is possible that pieces were *liberated* from site by 'souvenir hunters' before the planetarium researchers arrived. A more thorough search is planned, to check below the surface of the field. The *Astronomy & Space* article concludes that the 'jury is still out' with regard to the cause of the explosion, as it is certainly not proven to have been caused by an extraterrestrial object. In fact, it has been hinted to this writer that it's beginning to look as it it certainly *was not*. But then, stranger things have happened than mere rocks falling to Fermanagh fields, as this correspondent (who prefers to have his name withheld) has speculated for our amusement: 'It was not a bomb or meteorite as so many have said, it was in fact an attempted attack on an unknown being, of non-human origin. The attack was conducted using a NATO/British satellite based weapons system, which apparently uses Lasers of some sort or another, the StarWars system may indeed be still alive, or this is another type of Orbital based Laser defence/offence system. Anyway, the story goes that the farmers of Fermanagh have been terrorised recently by a spate of attacks on herds of sheep by a non-human being that has been described as being very similar to the Chupacabras reported in Mexico in recent years. The British military at the time were conducting surveillance on the surrounding area, which had nothing to do with these sightings. They were using the very highly advanced capabilities of the Satellite to scan the area and gather information, (reportedly the Satellite has imaging capabilities that can zoom and view in realtime to within inches of any target) when they came across some rather erratic movement in the surrounding forest and observed with absolute amazement a human like animal emerge from the undergrowth and sprint across the field to a milk churn, whereupon it began to drink from it. Word was allayed to the people in charge about the sighting and the order was given to "Target and Destroy" the unknown being. They were ordered to fire one shot and one shot only, this they did but as the weapons system was being started into motion the "being" sprinted back into the undergrowth and could not be tracked because the Satellite cannot be stopped from an active targeting once it has been setup to do so. The Satellite fired, hit the Milk Churn, blew a hell of a hole in the ground and that was that. They tried in vain to scour the surrounding area for any further sightings of the "human like animal" but to no avail. It seems this Chupacabras like being is still at large. The security forces were on the scene within minutes and "cleaned" the area of any evidence which may have been left behind from the Satellite`s targeting, they also placed a fragment of a meteorite from Alaska in the immediate area but amazingly it has as yet still to be found by any of the so called investigative journalists who have visited the area. They haven't looked hard enough maybe, or someone has found it and sold it probably. Anyhow, that`s the truth of the whole matter.' [Oddly enough, there *was* a rather apocryphal report from Co. Antrim some time back regarding 'The Beast of Ballymena', supposedly some form of Irish, ahem, chupacabras. Fortean Times also featured photos of alleged cattle mutilations from Co. Armagh (apparently from the same 'source') - Blather will include a reference next week.] As for last week's mention of a five tonne rock (11013lb) netted by the Dunmore East trawler *Silvie Liddy* on May 19th, Blather has not yet determined how the Irish Times speculation that it may have been a meteorite was arrived at (http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives2/issue2no2.html). Ian Elliot of Dunsink Observatory (http://www.dunsink.dias.ie/) told Blather that 'If the object was a meteorite [of that size?], it would probably have made a crater and would be buried underneath the seafloor. I suspect it is a glacial erratic [i.e. the rock was carried by a glacier and deposited when the glacier melted].' Though certainly not a statistician, this writer was inclined to regard the chances of a trawler 'just happening' to pick up a 5 tonne meteorite from the sea floor as rather slim. But, as I stated above, stranger things *have* been known to happen. . . Dave (daev) Walsh May 29th 1998 Feedback and comments to <blather@nua.ie> Have your say: http://www.nua.ie/blather/blabber ******************************************************************* NUA INTERNET SURVEYS A weekly newsletter, Internet Surveys is a free digest of the most interesting surveys containing data relating to the Internet. It is available by sending an email to <surveys-request@lists.best.com> with the word "subscribe" in the body of the message. NUA WHAT'S NEW A monthly newsletter, What's New is a free monthly newsletter highlighting the new additions, happenings and changes at Nua. It is available by sending an email to <whatsnew-requestlists.best.com> with the word "subscribe" in the body of the message. NUA NEW THINKING New Thinking is a free, weekly, 500-word email column, whose objective is to contribute to a practical philosophy for The Digital Age. It is available by sending an email to <newthinking-request@lists.best.com> with the word "subscribe" in the body of the message. ******************************************************************* SPONSORSHIP: While Blather will always remain free to the subscriber, Nua is always willing to talk to interested parties with regard to sponsorship. Contact Daev Walsh: <daev@nua.ie> ******************************************************************* Blather archives, please go to: http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/index.html ******************************************************************* 1798 REBELLION ON LOCAL IRELAND - http://local.ie/history/1798/ ******************************************************************* Local Ireland launches new site about 1798 rebellion in Ireland <http://local.ie/history/1798> Local Ireland has launched a major new site commemorating the 1798 rising in Ireland. 1798 marked the year of one of the bloodiest rebellions in Ireland since the Williamite War of 1640, when the Gaelic political order collapsed, Catholics lost their civil rights and their land was confiscated and passed on to wealthy Protestant settlers. "The Year of the Rising" in 1798 also marked the first time a foreign military nation joined forces with Irish insurgents in a pledge to fight against British colonial rule. Local Ireland's new site about 1798 includes sections on * the historical, social and political background which lead to the rebellion; * the injustice of British rule in Parliament; * the military background, tactics and weapons used in the battles; * the significance of the American Civil War (which many Irishmen were drafted to fight in); * the influence of the French Revolution and the Age of Enlightenment on a nation which had suffered under the hands of the British for almost 600 years. ******************************************************************* NUA MISSION STATEMENT ******************************************************************* To excel in the establishment and development of online relationships and brands. For further information on how Nua can help your organisation get the best out of the Internet, contact our marketing director, Mary Gorman <mary@nua.ie> or our representative in New York, Niall Swan <nswan@nua.ie> Mary Gorman: mailto:mary@nua.ie Niall Swan: mailto:nswan@nua.ie ******************************************************************* NUA LIMITED Nua, a vibrant, innovative, Irish company whose focus is in helping progressive organisations adapt to the new environment created by the Internet. We have the management/marketing, design and technical skills to truly understand your unique situation, and to translate that understanding into a successful Internet presence for you. Nua has received an array of awards since its genesis in 1996. Among those are the coveted "Best Overall World Wide Web Business Achievement" the top prize for website development in Europe. http://www.nua.ie/about/review.html SUBSCRIBING TO BLATHER Send an email to: <blather-request@lists.best.com> with the word subscribe in the body of the message. An automatic acknowledgement should be returned to you by e-mail within a few minutes. UNSUBSCRIBING Send an email to <blather-request@lists.best.com> with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. TECHNICAL PROBLEMS If you are having any technical problems, please email the Nua Webmaster at: <web@nua.ie>. ******************************************************************* ____________________________________________________________________ NUA : Internet Consultancy & Developer http://www.nua.ie/ Dave Walsh <daev@nua.ie> Tel: +353-1-676-8996 Fax: +353-1-661-3932 Read Blather: http://www.nua.ie/blather - weekly weirdness by email
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 29 Re: Trans-Lunar Phenomena - 98/05/26 From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:20:51 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:35:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Trans-Lunar Phenomena - 98/05/26 > Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:18:05 +0200 > From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> > Re: Trans-Lunar Phenomena - 98/05/26 -Reply > >From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com> > >To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> > >Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 10:25:14 -0500 > >Considering it was a new moon last night (and therefore the moon > >is 'lost' in the glare of the sun, as far as we are concerned), I > >consider the report bogus. > >Brian > Sorry, Brian, but it's not new moon here in SA: its definitely > waxing at the moment, with about a one-quarter crescent. Sirs: I show a new moon around midday (UTC) on 26 APRIL1998. Do we have a definite date and time for the Radio Announcer's LTP sighting? Was his show delayed by a day? New moon is new moon, and doesn't depend on our location on Earth, as long is the time is referenced to some standard like UTC. Best wishes - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 29 On Tapes From District 3 From: Steve Neeley <stneeley@mail.bright.net> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 17:06:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:32:32 -0400 Subject: On Tapes From District 3 Fowarded Message: Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 19:32:05 -0700 From: "K. Young" <task@fuse.net> [Kenny Young] To: dschweit@mail.one.net Subject: Update on TAPES from DISTRICT 3 [ Message removed by request of Kenny Young. Unauthorized posting. ] UFO Research http://home.fuse.net/task/ Steven J. Neeley, Director Ohio Skywatch International http://www.geocities.com/soho/5782 stneeley@bright.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 29 Re: UFO Burnout [was: Area 51 Still Operational] From: Ralf Zeigermann <kag15@dial.pipex.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:59:06 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:41:09 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Burnout [was: Area 51 Still Operational] >Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:23:10 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "John Cussen (CMG UK Limited)" <john.cussen@cmgplc.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Skywatch: Area 51 Still Operational >>From: StarmanBH@aol.com [Bill Hamilton] >>Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:43:22 EDT >>To: skyopen@unix.ltlb.com >>Subject: (Skyopen) AREA 51 STILL OPERATIONAL >>AREA 51 IS STILL OPERATIONAL >Dear All, >Sorry to sound down about this but quite frankly I'm reaching a >point of despair and disillusionment about this whole subject >lately, and I need something to get me going again. This message >is really an impassioned plea from someone who has lost his way, >so please, if you can, understand and help me? <snip> >Do any of you feel the same frustration that I feel? Is there >anything to point me, guide me, that will lift my spirits up and >give me reasons or encouragement to get interested in this area >again? I need it, I really do. I respect the right to opinions >and beliefs, and I need mine strengthened again, soon. Funny. I feel exactly the same. Where has all the drive gone? Where's the beef? We had (and still have) some 'smoking guns' - there still _are_ an Alien Autopsy film/video, a wobbling UFO in Mexico City, weird 'Rods' buzzing around, Roswell pictures being 'digitally' analyzed (it still looks like a kite or balloon to me) and the outing of clown Billy Meier (Grin: thanks to Joachim and, I'm afraid to say, Mr Kal Korff!). But where's the outcome of all that? Everybody seems to be more interested in a redundant Cydonia-debate or whatever than trying to get into these rather interesting cases. What are the latest news on the Rods? Are they a hoax or what? What are the latest news on that Mexican video? Is it a hoax or what? Again, a cry for help: Kevin, Stan, where are you? What are the latest news on those old Roswell photos? You are the experts, aren't you? Do you know anything more about it? Why is fraud Meier still a topic on this list? He _is_ a hoax! Why do I leave Santilli out of this? Perhaps because of CD-Roms, Videos and books instead of serious research, mhmm? Why is every 'researcher' advertising his/her books, CD-Roms, videos in _this_ list? Glenn Campbell runs a fantastic organized bookstore with a fantastic organized online catalog. He even posts parts of his catalog here. There really is no need for further ads, is there? This used to be a 'professional' kind of list and the members of this list do know when new books are due and by whom... Is this list on the verge of becoming a better alt.ufo.whatever? Is Ufology becoming more and more a place for weirdos and commercialism? Well, guess I'm frustrated too. Or I'm beginning to see the light... Cheers, Ralf
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 29 Re: UFO Burnout [was: Area 51 Still Operational] From: "Marigold" <ZIAZ@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 15:55:11 -0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:41:30 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Burnout [was: Area 51 Still Operational] >Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:23:10 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "John Cussen (CMG UK Limited)" <john.cussen@cmgplc.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Skywatch: Area 51 Still Operational >Dear All, >Sorry to sound down about this but quite frankly I'm reaching a >point of despair and disillusionment about this whole subject >lately, and I need something to get me going again. Like Mr. Cussen, I too have reached the point of total disillusionment and burnout in regards to the subject of UFOs, this list being the last remnant of a dying interest. After nearly 40 years of fervently searching for the truth, I've reached the point of apathy. I've lost faith in our government. I've lost faith in the so-called ufologists and authors. Reporters mock legitimate stories by reporting with raised eyebrow and sardonic grin. Hollywood profits with silly TV specials. Disinformation has been thorough and effective. The truth is, most of us will go to our graves without ever knowing the truth. Is anyone interested in buying a box of old UFO books?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 29 Re: UFO Burnout [was: Area 51 Still Operational] From: Lloyd Bayliss <lloyd@power-age.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 23:39:22 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:41:21 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Burnout [was: Area 51 Still Operational] Hello List. >Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:23:10 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "John Cussen (CMG UK Limited)" <john.cussen@cmgplc.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Skywatch: Area 51 Still Operational >>From: StarmanBH@aol.com [Bill Hamilton] >>Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:43:22 EDT >>To: skyopen@unix.ltlb.com >>Subject: (Skyopen) AREA 51 STILL OPERATIONAL >>AREA 51 IS STILL OPERATIONAL >Dear All, >Sorry to sound down about this but quite frankly I'm reaching a >point of despair and disillusionment about this whole subject >lately, and I need something to get me going again. This message >is really an impassioned plea from someone who has lost his way, >so please, if you can, understand and help me? >I don't know about any of you, but I feel that serious UFO >studies have lost some of the pace they seemed to have picked up >a few years ago. Crop Circles are not news anymore (no thanks to >mass hoaxing, particularly here in England). <Snip> >Do any of you feel the same frustration that I feel? Is there >anything to point me, guide me, that will lift my spirits up and >give me reasons or encouragement to get interested in this area >again? I need it, I really do. I respect the right to opinions >and beliefs, and I need mine strengthened again, soon. I have to say that that was very well written, and unfortunately far too close to the way I'm feeling at the moment :( The news of the MGS about to re-image Cydonia got me very excited (in a safe and non-sexual way you understand!). I honestly thought that at least *some* of those new images would reveal undeniable proof that there was, once upon a time, many millions or even billions of years ago, intelligent life on our closest planetary neighbour. Unfortunately, those images only lead to more arguments. 'I can see buildings here', 'I've *proved* that this is an artificial structure', 'this is not the same area as the Viking pictures' etc etc :( I too still cling on to the faint hope (maybe even a belief) that there is something to the Cydonian region of Mars. These new pictures however, only produce more debate and more infighting instead of honest, undeniable 'Good God, look at that!!!' type of proof. Is there a dis-information campaign that is doing its job extremely well, is there *really* nothing there for us to see - or is it just an extremely difficult phenomenon to trap into a corner and wrench out the sort of evidence that mainstream media will take seriously instead of just an 'And finally...' type of story? I suppose only time will tell (I guess that's been spouted more than a few times over the years), but I honestly believe that there is no way that the Human race is the only intelligent species in the whole of the universe, not even within our galaxial neighbourhood. Something *is* happening, and *somebody* knows about it, I'm sure. What and who is probably something that is going to elude us for a long time to come, but we have to live in hope. Ho hum :)) -- Lloyd e-mail: lloyd@power-age.demon.co.uk Web: http://www.power-age.demon.co.uk/index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 29 Re: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted From: Ralf Zeigermann <kag15@dial.pipex.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:59:04 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:40:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted >Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 09:35:31 -0400 >From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >Subject: Embarrassment Response >Sender: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >To: ufoupdates <updates@globalserve.net> >_________________________________________________________ >Dr. Bruce Maccabbee sent me a file attachment in response >to the Jerry Blackwell/Kenny Young post: >>Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 11:53:57 -0700 >>From: "Kenny Young" <task@fuse.net> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted: Part 1 >>Attachment Converted: "E:\Download\C5-25-98 RESPONSE.txt" >Format wise, it's a mess. >He has double line spaced everything and my software >will not reformat it. And frankly, I'm not going to >do it by hand. Dear Errol, and frankly, I'm not going to read this. It's a complete mess. Quite right, Errol! Cheers, Ralf
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 29 Re: UFO Burnout [was: Area 51 Still Operational] From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:12:57 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:41:00 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Burnout [was: Area 51 Still Operational] >Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:23:10 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "John Cussen (CMG UK Limited)" <john.cussen@cmgplc.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Skywatch: Area 51 Still Operational >>From: StarmanBH@aol.com [Bill Hamilton] >>Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:43:22 EDT >>To: skyopen@unix.ltlb.com >>Subject: (Skyopen) AREA 51 STILL OPERATIONAL >>AREA 51 IS STILL OPERATIONAL >Dear All, >Sorry to sound down about this but quite frankly I'm reaching a >point of despair and disillusionment about this whole subject >lately, and I need something to get me going again. This message >is really an impassioned plea from someone who has lost his way, >so please, if you can, understand and help me? >I don't know about any of you, but I feel that serious UFO >studies have lost some of the pace they seemed to have picked up >a few years ago. Crop Circles are not news anymore (no thanks to >mass hoaxing, particularly here in England). >Nothing came of investigations into the authenticity of the >Roswell Autopsy film except stalling and counter-stalling (even a >proven discrediting would have been more interesting than >nothing, and the only believable theories have been discrediting >ones anyway, such as the infamous statement about the positioning >of the hands on the clock). <snip> >Do any of you feel the same frustration that I feel? Is there >anything to point me, guide me, that will lift my spirits up and >give me reasons or encouragement to get interested in this area >again? I need it, I really do. I respect the right to opinions >and beliefs, and I need mine strengthened again, soon. >John Cussen, London UK John, I only came back into this field after twenty years of absence because I thought things had changed. After three years of beating my head against a stone wall, I feel just as you have so eloquently expressed it. Personally, I see little hope. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 30 Re: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 09:34:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 02:55:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted > >Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 09:35:31 -0400 >From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >Subject: Embarrassment Response >Sender: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >To: ufoupdates <updates@globalserve.net> _________________________________________________________ >Dr. Bruce Maccabbee sent me a file attachment in response >to the Jerry Blackwell/Kenny Young post: .>Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 11:53:57 -0700 >>From: "Kenny Young" <task@fuse.net> >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted: Part 1 >>Attachment Converted: "E:\Download\C5-25-98 RESPONSE.txt" >Format wise, it's a mess. >He has double line spaced everything and my software >will not reformat it. And frankly, I'm not going to >do it by hand. >He has his caps-lock on for his responses - >un-necessary (since Blackwell's original text i>s marked by '>' at the beginning of each line. >And all-caps is considered 'SHOUTING'! >I've sent him several e-mails about his post formatting. >And I don't buy the 'AOL excuse' any more. >In the past I've 'tidied up' his messages. Any future messages >that don't conform to 'Netiquette' and the Posting Rules here >will simply not make it to the List. >The ugliness below could be have been avoided - I guess >it's due to a lack of interest on Dr. Maccabee's part. >ebk Sorry about the format. The Compserve message response (reply) software, does not limit to 70 characters, as indicated by this line which runs to the end of the screen in my reply window. The file I sent you was written in WORDPAD which has a screen width greater than 70 characters. Therefore I have painstakingly inserted a carraige return when necessary to limit to 70 characters, as i have done here for the previous couple of lines. Unfortunately I can't see what you see. Perhaps it would be better if I didn't use carraige returns, but then I don't know hope else to limit to 70 characters (this line has no carraige return). Regarding the "ugliness below", if you mean format, it certainly isn't due to a lack of interest.... I went through the file several times to be sure that no line was more than 70 characters long. I even modified some of the original message line lengths. The format did not come out double spaced in my original text. I guess your softward adds a carraige return at the end of each line whether or not there already is one. Regarding the capital letters, I just thought it would be easier to differentiate the original message from my response. Then, afterward, I remembered your requirement to have (>) symbols before each line of the original message. This is another pain for me since the CSERVE reply softwared does not supply those characters (except at the beginning and end of a message). Therefore I have to manually insert > at the beginning of each line, For a long message such as Jerry's it required quite a bit of time just to do that. If by "ugliness" you refer to the tone of the writing, well, I guess you can understand who initiated this "ugliness."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 30 Re: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted From: Perry Mick <perrym@teleport.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:23:04 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 03:49:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > Dr. Bruce Maccabbee sent me a file attachment in response > to the Jerry Blackwell/Kenny Young post: <snip> > The ugliness below could be have been avoided - I guess > it's due to a lack of interest on Dr. Maccabee's part. > ebk I'm very glad you published this, and I found it readable despite the formatting errors. I think Dr. Maccabee showed great interest by taking the time to write this long response to blatant personality attacks. I think Jerry Black should stop wasting our time with his continued repetitive ad hominem attacks. There was absolutely nothing new in Mr. Black's most recent letter, just a complete rehash of his previous letter. I'm surprised that Dr. Macabee even takes the time to dignify this stuff with a response.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 30 Re: UFO Burnout From: Kelly Anthony Quiros <kquiros@cello.its.calpoly.edu> Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 00:09:41 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 04:15:18 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Burnout > From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> > Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:12:57 -0400 > Fwd Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:41:00 -0400 > Subject: Re: UFO Burnout [was: Area 51 Still Operational] < stuff deleted > > I only came back into this field after twenty years of absence > because I thought things had changed. After three years of > beating my head against a stone wall, I feel just as you have > so eloquently expressed it. > Personally, I see little hope. I've been lurking here for awhile as possibly a young naive soul, but know that all efforts are worth something! I work as a support staff person at a university and know that no effort on the part of a student is ever wasted. Somewhere along the way, the lesson learned will be built upon later! If nothing else, I feel that I can have the confidence I'm right even if no else believes me! My personal life would be worse than it is, if I needed to rely on atta boy and "you're doing a good job, keep up the good work". What is important to me, is learning, and sharing what I learn with others. Don't give up! Life is a university. There is always something to learn and someone to teach. There are students today watching and listening. I am a mere amateur in this UFO stuff, but have taken it upon myself to visit Gulf Breeze, Rachel (Nevada), Mexico City, and Brasil. A personal quest, the evidence is there. I don't need the governments and churches to validate the evidence. I'll decide for myself! What is important, is what to do next? How do I prepare for contact? Am I ready? How can I help my friends prepare for contact? Sorry to ramble, but I couldn't lurk any longer... Kelly
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 30 Re: UFO Burnout From: "Cathy Johnson" <cej@idirect.ca> Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 00:27:39 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 03:56:46 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Burnout >From: "Marigold" <ZIAZ@prodigy.net> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO burnout >Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 15:55:11 -0000 >>Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:23:10 +0100 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: "John Cussen (CMG UK Limited)" <john.cussen@cmgplc.com> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Skywatch: Area 51 Still Operational >>Dear All, >>Sorry to sound down about this but quite frankly I'm reaching a >>point of despair and disillusionment about this whole subject >>lately, and I need something to get me going again. So, do you think you are the only one to have spent more than forty-five years of saying that something was going on? Did you keep claiming that there was such a thing as aliens, that I was a lot more than an observer/participant in the goings on than just some stupid sightings? What do you think I have been doing all of my life, or rather since 1952? Did you get to go for a ride? I don't care if anything is proved one way or another. I don't care if the Moon is blue. What I do care about is the missing life I could have lived without the nightmares and tortures such as being skinned alive. Ever try that one? It is insane to bear, nothing like it except being burned to the third degree over most of my frontal surfaces. But that is only what can be seen. What about all of the little invisible incursiions into my mind? What about stopping watches, computers and so on? What about the trace radiation levels, the scars, the implants, and on it goes. Does it stop for you or me just because we decide to get off? Not! The abductions continue as they always have. Do you care? No. Do I care? No. It is simply a fact of life for me and a lot of other people not even like me in any way. Can you say that you are disgusted when you look me in the eye as I say that I am only asking for help? Can you help me to at least end the abductions? Apparently you are not any more than the idiots who close their eyes because you decided to quit. Thanks to all of you who sit and posture wind at both ends without doing anything realistic. Tell me what I am supposed to do. Tell me how I can go on with my life knowing all of the pieces that do not fit together. At least you are not searching for the life I should have had. You do not carry the reminders and extra baggage that I do so unwillingly, so without choice. So, here it is. After half a century, all of the brains of the world cannot solve a simple thing like a light in the sky, a tall tale of wonder that is repeated all over the world. Is this the newest of religions or other psychosis as yet undiagnosed? No? Well how about trying something else for a change. Time to rethink and redo if fifty years of the same questions get no answers. Take care for now, Cathy Johnson. ps: Implants... Another interactive Freeware product brought to you by the Watchers.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 30 Chat with Sarah McClendon, White House From: "Yvonne Hedenland" <vonni_h@email.msn.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:42:58 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 04:06:33 -0400 Subject: Chat with Sarah McClendon, White House Media's Influence Series Join the UFO Forum at http://forums.msn.com/ufo Sunday, May 31st at 7pm, PT for a chat with Sarah McClendon, White House Correspondent For over 50 years, McClendon has covered the White House Press Conferences. 11 Presidents have come and gone. She has recently picked up the gauntlet of the issue of government secrecy in regards to UFOs and is reporting for the general public on the very issue that all other mainstream media shuns. Her first entry into the issue of UFOs was covered in her March 30, 1998 News Release from the McClendon News Service. Though the issues covered in this news release were familiar to anyone who follows the UFO phenomenon (Hubbell's investigation, Col. Corso's claims, CSETI's work with Project: Starlight), the real news is the Dean of the White House Press Corp saw a need to report this issue to the general public. The Briefing Room chat can be accessed by any IRC client. The chat server name is publicchat.msn.com and the room or channel name is #briefing. The Netshow Audio Interview is available now at http://forums.msn.com/ufo
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 30 Summation re J. Carter's Sighting & Comments From: " Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 22:49:45 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 03:46:56 -0400 Subject: Summation re J. Carter's Sighting & Comments Summation re: Jimmy Carter's sighting & additional comments Regarding the correspondence that began as Filer's Files #20 >From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Date: Fri, 22 May 98 10:30:09 PDT >Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 08:31:27 -0400 >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #20 where Jerome said: "As no serious ufologist disputes, Carter saw Venus, not a UFO.", and having carefully read and reread the information presented by David Rudiak, Don Ledger & Robert Gates in regards to same, I find myself in basic agreement with the latter three gentlemen. With all the information given by all parties concerned, the "Venus" explanation doesn't really lock it down tightly for me either. By virtue of this, one can conclude either that David, Don, Robert & Jerry (Cohen) are "non-serious ufologists" or we can conclude that Jerome's original sentence may need "some minor adjustment." The "Venus" explanation in this instance definitely tends to remind me of some of those old Blue Book "get the public off our back" explanations that under really close scrutiny wound up being reclassified as "unidentified." Don wrote: > > Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 09:52:58 +0100 > > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Pres. Carter > >> Was Carter not a scientist of some sort, physicist > >> perhaps. He was not only a peanut farmer. and David answered: > Correct. Carter had a degree in nuclear physics and served as an > officer on US nuclear submarines. I suspect he had also seen > Venus a few times down on the peanut farm. Jerome wrote: > >From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net> > >Date: Sat, 23 May 98 11:24:41 PDT > >Fwd Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 21:45:48 -0400 > >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #20 > >Here is my entry "Carter Sighting" in The UFO Encyclopedia: > >2nd Ed., p. 174: > >As they stood outside waiting for a Lions Club meeting to start, > >Gov. Jimmy Carter and 10 residents of Leary, Georgia, noticed an > >unusually bright light at about 30 degrees' elevation in the > >western sky. Carter was to recall it appeared slightly smaller > >than the apparent size of the moon., It "came close, moved away, > >came close, then moved away," he reported. He estimated it to be > >"maybe 300-1000 yards" away. It "moved to [a] distance[,] then > >disappeared" ("Jimmy Carter's," 1977). The sighting took place on > >January 6, 1969, between approximately 7:15 and 7:30 p.m. > >Except for this sketchily rendered last detail, this object > >sounds very much like Venus, and then he said ....snip.... "I do confess it's hard for me to understand why anyone would get worked up about this monumentally unimpressive sighting, which didn't have any impact even on the other witnesses -- which certainly has not been the case in multiply witnessed observations of REAL UFOs." - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - JC: Several things here. 1) It obviously wasn't "monumentally unimpressive" to Jimmy Carter, highly political public figure of his time, who thought enough of it to report it, possibly jeopardizing his own political standing & reputation with the other "normal" politicians of the world who never witnessed one of these things for themselves. 2) It is not "monumentally unimpressive" to a minimum of four researchers who, after examining the "Venus" explanation, find it lacking as a totally credible explanation for what Carter saw, because, as David Rudiak pointed out: . . . From: DRudiak <DRudiak@aol.com> [David Rudiak] Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 01:55:52 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 03:08:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Pres. Carter a) Venus never appears to be the "size of the moon" or "slightly smaller than the apparent size of the moon." b) Venus doesn't loom dramatically in size as described by Carter. c) Venus doesn't disappear by seeming to move into the distance. At the reported time of the sighting, Venus would have remained well-elevated and visible in the sky. It would not have disappeared. It fact, it didn't set until about 9:20. You can't have it both ways, with Venus supposedly being brilliantly bright and otherwise highly visible (to supposedly account for the report), yet supposedly disappearing as well. Lesser discrepancies are: a) Venus was in the southwestern, not western sky (between 237 and 240 degrees azimuth, not 270). b) If the time was correct, the elevation was between 21 and 24 degrees, not 30 degrees. c) According to my planetarium programs, Venus wasn't even at its brightest on this date, much less an "unusually bright light." Carter's report said that the "10-12 men all watched it. Brightness attracted us." None of these people had never seen Venus in the sky before?" . . . JC: For these reasons alone, many readers should be able to realize the "Venus" explanation is "proposed" but certainly not written in stone. Therefore, at least some, if not many of those same readers might consider it premature to dismiss any sighting when that proposed explanation doesn't completely fit the description given by the claimant. 3) In using the words "multiply witnessed REAL UFOs," Jerome, who I respect greatly, seems to be implying that singularly witnessed UFOs are, by converse definition, UNREAL; therefore Jimmy Carter's sighting wasn't real since the impact on the other case witnesses was minimal and Jimmy Carter was thereby, in effect, a "singular witness." However, to imply that his sighting wasn't "real" because he was the only one affected by it doesn't make the UFO he saw "less real." I do have some personal empathy with Jimmy Carter's report since I found myself in a similar position with my own two sightings many years ago, unfortunately, with even less witnesses to back me up. I excerpted most of the following from a letter I had written to Kal Korff, May of last year, from some correspondence we had together. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Regarding my own sighting in 1967: My sighting was of a silent, rotating lighted craft at helicopter height and lasted for 3-5 minutes. I had a second sighting one month later which I eventually forced myself to discount because I was in a car by myself, on my way to an evening job, and had no other witness. As to the first: My wife had passed her comprehensive teaching exam and we were going out to dinner. We were happy, nothing else was on my mind except going out to celebrate. I went to take out what little garbage we had that night, before leaving for our celebration dinner, when "whack," it came in overhead. (Except there was no "whack.") At first glance, I first thought it was an airplane with its engines sparking. I turned away to put down the garbage pail and all of a sudden realized I didn't hear the sound of the engines from the plane which should have been passing directly overhead at the angle it was coming in. (It was fairly low. I normally can easily hear planes an awful lot higher. I am a respected musician/teacher with really excellent ears.) When it first hovered, I remember it having a mist around it that eventually cleared; Also when it hovered, it exhibited the "typical" falling leaf motion mentioned back then..also .. its lights were rotating. I cupped my ears and aimed them right toward it and all I could hear was a super-faint, light sort of "peal of static electricity." It was around for at least 3 minutes; generally over 2-3 neighbor's houses. At that point, it completely blew my mind because there was absolutely no doubt what I was looking at. It was a definite craft and fairly large. (Way too large to be up there with virtually no sound) Things raced through my mind: I asked myself if it was a balloon, dirigible, kite, helicopter (actually didn't have to do that... no sound), model "anything" ... and _nothing_ fit. I'd never seen anything like it before or since. (It wasn't a dirigible or blimp of any type because the movement was totally wrong and I could always hear the motor on any blimp I ever observed and focused my ears on. It was, for the most part, quiet in our area at the time of the sighting; i.e. no competing noise.) This next part gets to the point I am trying to make by mentioning all this: I ran into the house to get my wife and finally got her to come out to take a look. (We didn't own a camera back then.) She is not into mechanical things or electrical equipment & won't touch a computer. This "craft" was up there doing its silent thing with a "controlled" movement (i.e. it wasn't just floating,) and I went through a whole series of questions with her; i.e. was it any of the above things previously mentioned in the last paragraph. When I was finished and got a "no" to everything I asked, and we were staring at it together, I asked her; "Hon., do you think we could be looking at a UFO." Her reply to me was; "It can't be. There are no such things." To her, it couldn't exist. For her, this was a "non-event" and remained that way, diminished to nothingness in her memory over the years, to my extreme frustration. (I was incredibly angry about it for years.) Yet I on the other hand, absolutely without the least bit of doubt, knew what I was looking at. It didn't fit anything I knew about aeronautics or aerodynamics. So, just because Jimmy Carter was the only one "impressed" by what he saw (and I too would be curious to see all the interviews), it certainly is not fair to deny what he says simply because we "think" he could have made a mistake. What if he didn't? What if all his training in nuclear physics and as a military observer actually made him more likely to identify what he saw than the other lesser-trained individuals around him? What if they didn't have the background or interest to ask themselves the same questions he asked himself when he saw it? (Don Ledger said this a bit more neatly than I but, I guess I need to say it my way too.) Now all you skeptics who are out there thinking to yourselves "he can't prove any of this," you are absolutely right....and that's why I usually don't talk in depth about my own two sightings years ago. But I will tell you this, I have never been more positive about anything in my entire life. I am not a person who is quick to come to conclusions which have other rational answers. I tortured myself over this for years and refused to let it go. I wanted an answer and neither the Air Force or the Condon Committee gave it to me. I read the whole Condon report because of it and had my eye on every article, documentary, etc. I ever saw after that, looking for some solution to my dilemma & frustration. BTW, it was still light out during my sighting, so I hadn't just seen a "light" in the sky. I had just gotten out of the Air Force the year before and had some fairly close contact with various types of airplanes. I was in the air getting ready to land at, I believe it was Homestead AFB, Florida when Kennedy was shot and watched the B-52's going up into the air. Does this make me an expert on aircraft? No. But it is more than thirty years later and I still have never seen an aircraft or discovered any in research, etc. that comes even close to resembling what I saw that late afternoon. (And I never stopped looking and trying to figure out anything else it might have possibly been.) No, I don't have a problem with the sizes of objects I see. When I look at something for a minimum of 2-3 minutes in the light, I can tell what it is. (my depth perception test for my driver's license was normal.) So when someone writes a book, essay, whatever, and gives all these generalized reasons that someone could have made a mistake because _other_ people make mistakes or, they weren't familiar with all the existing phenomena up there or, some people have a problem with their depth perception or someone else does a study with helmets, whatever, to say people hallucinate I say hogwash; it's the cheater's way out. Case details are where it's at. Either satisfy them in a reasonable manner or just simply say to yourself, "This case is still unidentified" I've always been interested in science, bought a telescope and went out with my son when he was younger, to observe the constellations, shooting stars, look for satellites in orbit, etc. I got him interested in computers (and he's extremely successful today) because I was interested. I enjoy science fiction but I'm not an "X-Files" fan. I do know fiction from fact. I'm a college graduate and I don't have a driving desire to have contact with extraterrestrials. But, what I saw back then said unequivocally to me that, just possibly, some of the people that claim they have had contact in this regard could be telling the truth. It is why I never stopped researching this over the years. So, as a plea to others out there trying to decide for yourselves where this whole thing is at, please just try to be a little more critical of proposed explanations that don't really fit claimants' descriptions. I can't emphasize more strongly that you or all of us may possibly be missing perhaps the most important thing to ever happen to human race. Sincerely, Jerry Cohen Author: Oberg/Cooper rebuttals Website: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/ UFOmind: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/c/cohen/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 30 Re: UFO Burnout [was: Area 51 Still Operational] From: Darby0147@aol.com [Dale Darby] Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:39:52 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 03:36:04 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Burnout [was: Area 51 Still Operational] >Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:23:10 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "John Cussen (CMG UK Limited)" <john.cussen@cmgplc.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Skywatch: Area 51 Still Operational > That really is not too much to ask and I'm getting tired of > having to ask for it. How many times have any of us said "Yes, > but, do you have PROOF?" and received a negative response. Why > aren't there non-fuzzy, non-shaky, daytime, close-up film clips > of... well, whatever it is? Does no-one own a tripod?! > I want to believe, folks, but I want to believe the truth or at > least to be able to say "This is what I've seen and this is how > it's touched me". >Faith is not enough, not anymore. Hi John and the rest, I'm a professional artist and have done many covers for UFO magazines. I went to area 51 last year with a German publisher buddy of mine last year. Area 51 definately still is operational although we saw no UFOs. They are doing a lot there but, I have from a very reliable source, the "good stuff" has been moved to an undisclosed location in Utah. As for tripods and good camera work, I held an artists workshop at White Mountain in California two tears ago. This is a high altitude research station at that time run by the University of Cal. at San Diego. It is at an altitude of 12,500 ft. As the crow flies, it's about 150 miles due west of area 51 and you can see Tonapah AFB there also. There were four of us, we all had cameras and cam corders and we all saw a stunning display of UFOs one night. No structure, but really bright lights doing some simply unbelievable manuvers. The longest incident only lasted about 30 seconds and three others only about 10 seconds each. Do you think any of us got pictures? NOT! You have to be in the right place in the right time and have everything set up and ready to shoot. You're soooo mesmerized that you don't think to do it. And if you're not looking at the right place for those few seconds, you miss it. You have to be in the right place in the right time and have everything set up and ready to shoot. You're soooo mesmerized that you don't think to do it. And if you're not looking at the right place for those few seconds, you miss it. That's why you don't see any "real" pictures that are perfect. UFOs don't pose. Hope that cheers you up. Keep looking up and have that camera ready! Maybe you'll be the first! Dale
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 30 Re: Just For Grins From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 04:01:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 17:48:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Just For Grins >Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 07:06:17 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Just For Grins >>Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 07:17:45 -0500 >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> >>Subject: Just For Grins >>Since everyone has been so serious of late, I thought I would >>make you all aware of a site that I have just put up that is >>STRICTLY FOR GRINS. If you can appreciate the humor in all of >>this, check out: >> http://members.xoom.com/InfoHead/tapra/humor.html BS>Well, Glenn, I went, I looked. BS>I didn't think it was funny. Heh, well, I guess I can understand that, Bob, since you were unflatteringly caricatured in one of the jokes. (By the way, hold off on the attorneys... That was something that was taken from public material several years ago. I was not the author.) I found the rest of the story so hilarious that I figured it had to be up. It is unfortunate that you were featured in the way you were, though. How about the rest of the material? >For a genuinely funny site I recommend: >http://www.laugh-your-ass-off.com/index1.html I already had it bookmarked! What a coincidence! Here's one for you, and that will be the end of this material, since it's rather off-topic... =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= = = = Want a grin, a nyuk, a bellylaugh, a titter, a guffaw?? = = http://www.fortunecity.com/boozers/nicole/68/index.html = = = =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 30 Re: UFO Burnout From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 06:07:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 17:57:44 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Burnout > Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 00:09:41 -0700 > From: Kelly Anthony Quiros <kquiros@cello.its.calpoly.edu> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO Burnout [was: Area 51 Still Operational] > > From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> > > Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:12:57 -0400 > > Fwd Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:41:00 -0400 > > Subject: Re: UFO Burnout [was: Area 51 Still Operational] > <stuff deleted> > > I only came back into this field after twenty years of absence > > because I thought things had changed. After three years of > > beating my head against a stone wall, I feel just as you have > > so eloquently expressed it. > > Personally, I see little hope. > I've been lurking here for awhile as possibly a young naive soul, > but know that all efforts are worth something! <reluctant snippage> > Don't give up! Life is a university. There is always something > to learn and someone to teach. There are students today watching > and listening. I am a mere amateur in this UFO stuff, but have > taken it upon myself to visit Gulf Breeze, Rachel (Nevada), > Mexico City, and Brasil. A personal quest, the evidence is > there. I don't need the governments and churches to validate the > evidence. I'll decide for myself! What is important, is what to > do next? How do I prepare for contact? Am I ready? How can I > help my friends prepare for contact? > Sorry to ramble, but I couldn't lurk any longer... I don't need the governments that have chiseled at my health; I don't need the churches -- I've decided for myself. What's the real importance; what can _I_ do next? What is it, then, that _I_ can do for breath within _my_ chest? How do _I_ prepare for contact -- make my _self_ aware and ready? Answer these and then be _free_ to help your friends get steady! Lehmberg@snowhill.com Read eclectically -- take notes, think critically, question assumptions, save, save, and save . . . root, and dare! You already have an _honorable_ job -- it doesn't have to get a whole lot better than that. It _could_ be you're sitting pretty! Thanks for your honest expression, and my apology for blowing it through a different horn. -- Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 30 Alien Baloney From: RSchatte@aol.com [Rebecca] Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 04:37:22 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 17:47:39 -0400 Subject: Alien Baloney =A0http://www.newtimesla.com/1998/052898/faultlines1.html Saturday, May 30, 1998=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 Browse recent Faultlines columns. Or search News archives: =A0 Alien Baloney A local podiatrist says he's been surgically removing strange objects from people who think they were implanted by space aliens. But there are a few holes in his story By Skylaire Alfvegren Kalynn Campbell "Here's to happy feet!" reads Jerry Lewis's signed head shot, hanging from the wall of podiatrist Dr. Roger K. Leir's modest office. It's accompanied by glossy, toothsome portraits of Johnny Carson, Patrick Swayze, and Larry Hagman. The dapper, diminutive Dr. Leir has been in practice since 1964. Before opening his own clinic, he was on staff of up to 27 different emergency rooms at the same time. "It took a lot of running," he says. State medical records show he hasn't been reprimanded or even sued in years. But Leir isn't your typical overachieving foot doctor. For the past two and a half years, he says he's been surgically removing bizarre, unexplainable objects from patients who believe the objects were implanted by extraterrestrials. "I've been the consummate skeptic," says Leir, who runs two clinics in the Ventura County suburbs of Thousand Oaks and Camarillo. "My background is scientific, and to be honest, I didn't have much faith in what we would find....I'm interested in physical evidence." Leir became interested in the idea of alien implants in 1995, when he attended a UFO convention at a hotel near LAX. There he met Derrel Sims, a hypnotherapist and self-described former CIA operative, who'd been investigating purported UFO abductions for 30 years. The Houston-based Sims displayed what he said were x-rays of a supposed abductee's foot, showing two unexplainable objects in the big toe. "I was intrigued by the evidence he presented," Leir says. "And being familiar with foot radiographs, I thought it was indeed coincidence." Leir was so fascinated that he offered to remove the objects for free if the patient could journey from Texas to Southern California. She accepted immediately. Another Texan with an abduction story and a mysterious object in the hand contacted Leir, who assembled a support team and operated on both patients on August 19, 1995. (As a podiatrist, Leir is licensed to operate only from the ankle down.) From the first patient, he claims, he recovered a T-shaped metallic object, as well as another object shaped like a cantaloupe seed. An identical seed-like object, Leir says, was removed from the second patient's hand. Many people wind up with foreign objects lodged in their bodies -- and not because they were experimented on by some intergalactic Dr. Mengele. Since then, Leir claims to have performed or presided over five other surgeries in which strange objects were sliced out of a chin and a leg, as well as hands and feet. The last operation took place in June 1996. "To date," says the podiatrist, "we've removed three [objects] that are metallic and covered with a shiny, dark gray membrane, three grayish-white balls, the T-shaped object, and one with the appearance of crystal." According to a 1993 Roper Poll, between three and five million Americans believe they've been contacted, abducted, or otherwise toyed with by extraterrestrials. The high figure represents more than two percent of the population. "We figure that's conservative," says Leir. "Because most people don't want you to know." The podiatrist says he subjects potential patients to a battery of psychological tests to make sure they're not mentally unstable. Those who want to be considered for implant removal surgery must meet other criteria as well. "Firstly, they have to have some kind of alleged abduction experience, and secondly, they have to have a demonstrable object," says Leir. "If you can't see it on an x-ray, CAT scan, or MRI, it's not for us." Leir hopes to carry out another set of surgeries in the next few months. And with over 100 qualified candidates on his waiting list, it would seem that he could franchise his work. To his knowledge, he and his team of volunteer physicians are the only ones performing implant-removal surgeries, though he's certain many other doctors have inadvertently taken implants out of their own patients. "I've been contacted by numerous physicians who say, 'I know this sounds crazy' and proceed to describe an x-ray they've taken of an unexplainable object," says Leir. "Some have actually volunteered to participate." As for Leir's regular patients, most are aware of his hobby, and are curious rather than worried by it. "Not one single person has laughed," he says. "They don't think it's funny any more." Leir says his phone "rings constantly" with people asking about his surgeries. It rang for three days straight, he says, after he and his now-partner Sims were interviewed by Nevada-based radio personality Art Bell, the Oprah Winfrey of the unknown. Although the foot doctor says he receives no payment for his removal surgeries, he and Sims accept donations for their nonprofit research organization, the Fund for Interactive Research in Space Technology, or FIRST. The money, Leir says, is used to pay patients' transportation costs to L.A. and to run scientific tests on recovered objects (the tests often cost up to $10,000 apiece, he says). Naturally, this being L.A., Leir is negotiating to sell possible film rights to his work. So. Here we have a self-proclaimed man of science, cautiously and even skeptically exploring a strange medical phenomenon with profound implications for the human race, right? Well, not exactly. Start asking hard questions about Leir's work and his story begins to reek of a certain popular lunch meat. Can he supply the names of the surgeons who've assisted him, so the supposed removal surgeries can be verified? Well, that's not possible, actually. "It could damage their careers if they were connected to this," says Leir. How about patients' names? Well, they'd prefer to remain anonymous, too. OK, how about the identities of the researchers who Sims claims have examined the mystery implants? Um, they're kinda shy, too. "They've made some remarkable discoveries, but they're highly tenured academics," says Leir. "They're afraid of losing their reputations." Uh-huh. Can New Times at least photograph some of the purported implants? "They're all at labs being studied," says Leir. But as a reporter's questions continue, his manner gradually turns from polite and cooperative to petulant and demanding. "I've given you a tremendous amount of material, free of charge," he huffs at one point, weeks after a single, one-hour interview. "I refuse to put forth any further effort unless a charitable contribution is made to our nonprofit research organization....Any TV producer would pay big bucks for that info." Leir claims the mystery implants have undergone complicated tests at a variety of laboratories, including those at Stanford, the University of San Diego, the New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology, the Los Alamos National Laboratory, and most recently, a private lab in Dallas. So far, he says, the mountain of data derived from the tests is inconclusive about whether the objects are truly extraterrestrial in nature, although Leir clearly thinks there's a good chance they are. But, he says, "We won't know until we get the last piece of data." After a week of deliberating with his Hollywood agent, Leir reluctantly passes on the name of a single researcher: Paul Fuierer, a materials engineer at the New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology, who examined some of the objects two years ago. Leir and Sims had reported on their Website that Fuierer's data pointed toward extraterrestrial origins. Contacted by phone, Fuierer indicates he rues the day he got mixed up with Leir and Sims. "Unfortunately, my name is still associated with them," he says. "I found nothing particularly unusual about the objects," says the engineer. "I was told virtually nothing about their origins. At the time, I said certain characteristics -- mineral deposits -- were similar to those found in meteorites. But that was turned around in their report. My statements were taken out of context, I was misquoted. The samples I examined could have been nothing more than slivers of iron -- perhaps from a wire hairbrush -- that the body had calcified. That scenario is much more probable." Indeed, says Dr. Leonard Knudson, an L.A. podiatrist in practice for 16 years, many people wind up with foreign objects lodged in their bodies -- and not because they were experimented on by some intergalactic Dr. Mengele. "We might find a needle broken off inside, or splinters of some kind. Usually when something is in the body for a length of time, it gets a fibrous coating, or scar tissue," he says. "Sometimes [people] remember how or when it got there, sometimes they don't. If it happened a long time ago they will often forget about it." If Fuierer is no help to Leir's cause, neither is the famed Los Alamos lab in New Mexico, where the first atomic bombs were developed. Leir insists some of his mystery objects were tested by researchers in Los Alamos' chemical science and technical division. "They even went to the expense of building a laser microscope to do mass spectrometry on them," says the podiatrist. But Los Alamos chief spokesman James Richtman says he has "absolutely no idea what this is about." He says he's never heard of Leir's foundation or the names of the project's supposed funders. "We have no connection to this work," says Richtman. Even some Ufologists scoff at Leir and Sims. "There's a lot of fakery, money grubbing, and ego in the UFO community," says Jim Mosely, editor of Saucer Smear, a gossipy watchdog publication for UFO buffs. "There's a decided lack of skepticism among people who follow the UFO community." Mosely bluntly characterizes as "garbage" Leir and Sims' claims to be harvesting alien implants. "People can get some strange stuff lodged under their skin without even knowing it," says Mosely. "The purpose of the implant would be to monitor or control the person; it would have to have some kind of mechanical semblance. Leir's [objects] have weird chemical formulas, but no indication of being tracking devices or having been formed unnaturally by intelligent beings." Predictably, Leir won't comment when confronted with these responses. Money is still flowing to his foundation, and he plans to present his "findings" in July or September, once all his test results are in. And there's a good chance he can bamboozle unskeptical UFO fans around the globe into thinking he's the greatest scientific pioneer since Galileo. "If [Sims] and I are successful with what we're doing -- if we prove the objects were implanted by extraterrestrial entities -- that's the end, the ultimate," says the foot doctor. "What will be done with that information remains to be seen, but I know life as we know it will never be the same."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 30 Re: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 04:25:28 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 18:06:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted >Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:23:04 -0700 >From: Perry Mick <perrym@teleport.com> >To: updates@globalserve.net, brumac@compuserve.com >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted >>>> The ugliness below could be have been avoided - I guess >>>> it's due to a lack of interest on Dr. Maccabee's part. >>>> ebk >>>Neither Netscape Communicator/Navigator nor . >>>Microsoft Internet Exploiter show how many characters I >>>have typed on any given line! A ruler is useless.. since >>>that depends on type fonts. Any suggestions? The worlds cheapest DOS text editor will do this. > I'm very glad you published this, and I found it readable despite > the formatting errors. I think Dr. Maccabee showed great > interest by taking the time to write this long response to > blatant personality attacks. I think Jerry Black should stop > wasting our time with his continued repetitive ad hominem > attacks. There was absolutely nothing new in Mr. Black's most > recent letter, just a complete rehash of his previous letter. > I'm surprised that Dr. Macabee even takes the time to dignify > this stuff with a response. Yeah! There are more important issues .. like how to spell Bruce's last name. While I probably disagree with Bruce Maccabbee about Gulf Breeze in general, I must say that I agree with Perry Mick's comments below. I hold Mr. Maccabbee in the highest regard. The problem with lengthy ad-hominem attacks is that any proper response will be even lengthier! Sometimes all you can do is say "Kram it!" or the like. Bruce M. could have ignored the verbal assault, but then Jerry Black could say that his charges went unanswered .. (implying that Black is right! .. I think otherwise.) Bruce Maccabbee was not the author of this ugliness. What would any of us do in a similar situation? I don't see any quick easy answer. Best wishes to all. - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 30 Grassroots Action From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 02:36:28 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 17:53:47 -0400 Subject: Grassroots Action > From: MDJ50@webtv.net (Mike Jamieson) > Fri, 29 May 1998 To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFOs and Grassroot Action: What next? <snip> > People began responding to the idea of ORTK and in July 1993 we > held a demonstration and rally at the White House, an event many > of you may remember. Yes, I recall the press coverage. -LH > But with all that, no mass movement has arisen to fight UFO secrecy (nowhere near it). > Given this atmosphere, ORTK organizers are wondering, what's next? > Of course, we have announced our plans for a demonstration at the > White House (for July 1999). But it's hard to argue with some of > the points raised so far in response to those plans. Therefore, > this posting is presented for the purpose of soliciting people"s > thoughts re.: (1) alternative forms of action (other than > conventional demonstrations; (2) alternative settings (other than > White House); and (3) message content. > We (ORTK organizers) are not stubbornly locked into specific > plans at this time. The feedback to date on the 1999 plan has us > thinking over the nature of our plans. That's very good! These are my personal thoughts only of course. Sadly, I found myself chuckling at the "UFO nuts" with their signs etc. marching in front of (was it the White House?) Here I am, in basic agreement with everything you apparently espouse, and I'm put off by the side-show spectacle! Your signs might as well have said "save the garden snails!" or something equally goofy. My fear is that a repeat performance will again have a NEGATIVE effect on public opinion .. bolstering the often snickered perception that only kooks and crackpots take UFOs seriously.. when that is decidedly FALSE. If you want to cause even a slight change in the public perception, I think a half page or full page ad in several major newspapers would be more useful. Something like: = = = = = = : Are UFOS nonsense? : : We the undersigned do not think so. It is our opinion : that UFOs are real phenomena, and well worthy of further : study. : : Dr. Albert Appleflaf Ph.D Physics : Dr. Winston Winbeek Ph.D Psychology : Dr. Howard Whack MD : Herbert Chatterjee, Senior Engineer. : Hubert Cowbell, Astronaut. : Rev. T. T. Tuttle, Theologian. : B.C. Whynot, Ph.D Historian (etc. etc. ad infinitum a LONG list... Experts and respected thinkers in nearly every field.) = = = = = = Note that there is NO mention of Roswell, Col. Corso, Chupacabras, this or that video .. no nine-day wonders which will wither, die and distract the public from the fundamental issue at hand... UFOS are real phenomena. The wording at the top is extremely important. Nobody worth asking will sign a public document containing wild or dubious assertions. Let some other group parade signs up and down Pennsylvania Avenue this time.. Best wishes - Larry Hatch PS The names above are ficticious.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 30 Alfred's Odd Ode #249 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 06:09:49 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 17:59:50 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #249 Apology to MW #249 (For May 30, 1998) The man may be reluctant. It's been his way so long; he's the owner of the black robed court, and he writes the newsman's song. It's about his toleration -- that of which he is bereft. He's kept new info close at hand, and teases you with it. And this is surly negative, it makes one just a tool . . . be different if he lived inside his _own_ contested rule. The man may be reluctant. He just may hide from you -- at the bottom of his silo, where he keeps the *craft* from view. Where he tinkers with the destiny that he doles on out to us, while we wage slave for epiphany, and then die as dry as dust. The man may be reluctant. He may let you shine his shoes, but ask, for cause, to see his books, and be the one outside -- you lose. And everyone's a loser when you play the game like that. He'd have you watch your wages, pay his taxes, make more brats! He'd have your nose to grind stones though the tears stream from your eyes; he'd distract you from the questions asked by lights that dance your skies. He would blather and palaver from the corners slick with loss that the dirge which you've been hearing is the song of honest cost. The man may be reluctant, and he keeps at beck and call all the chosen of the multitudes he has kept, beheld -- enthralled. The religious arm of culture has convinced us that it's wrong to take in hand humanity, and hear a human's song. Campaigns for birthing babies are the order of the day. "The more of them you have in Christ, the better for you. Pray"! "Keep on having all the children -- make no move to stem the tide, so we can better choose the *best*, and keep the present blind. Keep them scuffling for position, keep them always wanting MORE; keep them in their own confusion, under stress before our doors. Let them look at what we tell them. Let them suffer for their *sins*. Let them eat from what we feed them, and forget what fate portends." The man may be reluctant, as he hoards his ill got gain. He'll short you on the front end, and then treat you like a stain. He ridicules the UFO's that clutter honest skies, then heats you in his skillet 'till you snap or pop and fry. It matters not your terror, your confusion is his tool. He takes you for his property, his chattel, and his fool. And you're the one that heats his water, and you build his dwelling place, but he keeps the truth well from you, so he spits right in your face. That's _why_ the man's reluctant 'cause he knows you'd be pissed off. Autonomy was always yours, you'd find, and you've been lost. You tarry in your slogans, and you tithe right up to church -- continuing the same mistake that's got you in this lurch. Lehmberg@snowhill.com The mistake? Your unwavering, ignorant, and stubbornly obtuse intolerance. Period, if that's your practice. When I look at the consequences of a fractured global nationalism, of any stripe, I wonder how bad a liberal, one world, and elected government could be <g>? We've got to think larger, more differently than we've been thinking -- larger, and more inclusively? The alternative seems to be someone sailing *the bomb* into some unsuspicious harbor for that -- effect of maximum inconvenience <g>, and of course, to celebrate a self-fulfilled prophesy. Rome WAS Rome, for awhile, after all, because it, early, offered complete inclusion, *citizenship* to those that it. . .encouraged . . . to its banner? It was the United States, of its time, for that reason. It was, after a fashion, inclusive. Only later, when it lost that good sense, and clutched the arbitrary, did it begin to fail. The first thing to do in _my_ new utopic cooperation (g) is share information regarding this (searching for an unloaded expression) ubiquitous UFO *situation*. I appreciate that it is largely nonsense, a game of graft and corruption played by specious sociopathic charlatans living, like any parasite, on the web that we weave for them; but only largely -- some of *it* is very real. It BEGS single minded, even obsessive investigation. Moreover, an avoidance of the issue is a little like turning your back on the movie monster, when, of course, you're in the movie <g>. Lights, action -- camera, boys and girls . . . you're ON, in 3 -- 2 -- 1 -- . . . <*> That being said -- go forth and _don't_ multiply. Restore John Ford. -- Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 30 Re: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 09:10:28 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 18:11:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted >Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:59:04 +0100 >From: Ralf Zeigermann <kag15@dial.pipex.com> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >>Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 09:35:31 -0400 >>From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >>Subject: Embarrassment Response >>Sender: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >>To: ufoupdates <updates@globalserve.net> >>_________________________________________________________ >>Dr. Bruce Maccabbee sent me a file attachment in response >>to the Jerry Blackwell/Kenny Young post: >>>Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 11:53:57 -0700 >>>From: "Kenny Young" <task@fuse.net> >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>Subject: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted: Part 1 >>>Attachment Converted: "E:\Download\C5-25-98 RESPONSE.txt" >>Format wise, it's a mess. >>He has double line spaced everything and my software >>will not reformat it. And frankly, I'm not going to >>do it by hand. >Dear Errol, >and frankly, I'm not going to read this. It's a complete >mess. >Quite right, Errol! >Cheers, >Ralf So, you guys are saying that form means more to you than substance????? Come on!! Bruce needs to be heard on this matter. Bob [He has. Despite his "form" --ebk]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 30 Re: Pres. Carter From: "Beverly Trout" <btufo@netins.net> Date: Sat, 30 May 98 10:10:13 PDT Fwd Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 19:03:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Pres. Carter Does anyone recall details of Carter's report (while he was president) of - as I recall - an aggressive giant rabbit? I'm not sure of my own recall - I think it was while he was in a boat....maybe while he was on vacation somewhere??? Realizing that odd animal forms can sometimes be presented to abductees, I've always wondered about that report.....Does anyone else recall this??? Bev Trout
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 30 Re: Max Burns From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 10:49:36 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 19:02:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Max Burns >Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 07:36:36 -0400 >From: Andy Roberts <Brigantia@compuserve.com> >Subject: Re: Max Burns >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> <snip> >Max would not reveal any facts for us to check at this moment in >time. However he did say that he had revealed them to Graham >Birdsall, editor of UFO magazine, and that Graham had agreed that >Max 'had something'. >Comments Graham? If memory serves me right, in one of the dozen or so telephone calls I took from Max during the course of a particular week, he claimed two things: 1) That a chap discovered out walking in the middle of the road on the night in question reaked of oil. 2) That the guy who "sniffed him", now believed this smell to be aviation fuel - reason being he was now working for the RAF and could distinguish between the two. Whether my comments at the time warranted Max's assertion that I construed this amounted to something is difficult to call - but given recent heated debate on this particular incident, I would prefer to stick with the known facts and let others do the speculating! Best regards, Graham W. Birdsall (Editor) UFO Magazine [UK]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 31 Re: UFO Burnout From: RAMBLD@worldnet.att.netc [Diane Lovett] Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 12:24:23 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 09:23:22 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Burnout > Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 00:09:41 -0700 > From: Kelly Anthony Quiros<kquiros@cello.its.calpoly.edu> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO Burnout [was: Area 51 Still Operational] > I work as a support staff person at a university and know that no > effort on the part of a student is ever wasted. Somewhere along > the way, the lesson learned will be built upon later! If nothing > else, I feel that I can have the confidence I'm right even if no > else believes me! My personal life would be worse than it is, if > I needed to rely on atta boy and "you're doing a good job, keep > up the good work". What is important to me, is learning, and > sharing what I learn with others. > Don't give up! Life is a university. There is always something > to learn and someone to teach. There are students today watching > and listening. (snip) > A personal quest, the evidence is > there. I don't need the governments and churches to validate the > evidence. I'll decide for myself! > Kelly Kelly and all, Amen! After a lifetime of looking for answers, I too go through burn out on the subject from time to time, but in the end I can't avoid it because it is in my face! All the research and studies, all the brave souls who have stood up to be counted and told the world of thier experiences, none of it has been for naught! I may go to my grave with no answers, but my children (and your's) may be the ones who get those answers thanks to us! I trust no one in this completely, I simply take whatever I hear from others with a very large grain of salt, and learn what I can from all of it. Burnout can be helped a lot by learning not to participate in the cult of personality that thrives so much in ufology-I am no respecter of persons period, there are many "educated idiots" in our world. The insanity and garbage that goes on in ufology should in no way deter anyone from continuing to seek the truth, and to share with those who also seek it. Diane
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 31 Re: UFO Burnout From: millpond@idirect.com [Jacquie Cosford] Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 12:41:18 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 09:32:33 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Burnout >Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:23:10 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "John Cussen (CMG UK Limited)" <john.cussen@cmgplc.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Skywatch: Area 51 Still Operational >Dear All, >Sorry to sound down about this but quite frankly I'm reaching a >point of despair and disillusionment about this whole subject >lately, and I need something to get me going again. This message >is really an impassioned plea from someone who has lost his way, >so please, if you can, understand and help me? This is the first time I've posted here, so greetings to you all! Well John, you're not the only one! I've been seriously interested in this subject since I was a young child and over the years have tried to keep up with the latest information...now I lurk here! <smile> I can remember trying to talk to my parents and friends about UFO's and getting laughed at. Now it's become very mainstream, almost as if we're being brainwashed...but for what??? This is what scares the hell out of me. Why is it that we're so sure that these beings (if they exist) are going to be superior to us. True, most stars are older than ours (ours is a mainstream yellow G type, and still quite young) but it IS possible that we have MORE to offer extraterrestrial life, than they to us. I have seen a UFO (at least unidentified to me). It was about 10 years ago and I was out studying the stars (my other passion is astronomy). I won't go into great detail here, but a triangular shaped object passed over my house, about the height of a telephone pole (30') and barely cleared the roof. It was brown, no lights, just dark portals around the perimeter, and deadly silent. I did make a report to CUFORN, which I'm not even sure still exists today. [It does --ebk] This was a Canadian UFO Research network headed by a man named Larry Fenwick. Noone else reported anything that night. Soooo, I at least have a distant memory of a strange event and keep hoping for its return, if for no other purpose than to have someone else clarify my sighting. I'm becoming bored with the same repetitive shows, the same interviews and information. Most of all, I'm disheartened by the disinformation out there and the irresponsibility of the media. I'm speaking here of a repeatedly aired show about the Lake County abduction of an entire family. It's a hoax. Let's see some real proof that aliens are visiting our planet.....we ARE ready! Best wishes, Jacquie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 31 Corso Signs CAUS Affidavit From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 03:39:00 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 12:37:55 -0400 Subject: Corso Signs CAUS Affidavit Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 11:40:32 EDT From: <UFOLAWYER1@aol.com> To: CAUSupdates@caus.org Subject: [CAUS updates] - Special Saturday Report-Corso signs CAUS affidavit Dear CAUS Subscribers: I know its Saturday, your one day of not receiving any e-mails from CAUS, but I thought I should share this very important news. This morning I received a telephone call from Colonel Philip Corso (ret.) who informed me that, on advice of his attorney, he had signed the CAUS affiidavit (see CAUS website for contents), was having it notarized either today or Monday and would be returning it to me next week. Last week I had spoken to Colonel Corso's attorney in Houston and she was extemely understanding and cooperative. CAUS wishes to thank both her and the Colonel for their help in its lawsuit against the Army. Both the Colonel and I will be speaking in Roswell, July 4th weekend, and have agreed to spend time together in order to plan strategy. Any CAUS member is welcome to join us in Roswell and participate in, what now seems assured to be, a very interesting and ground breaking lawsuit. Colonel Corso has upheld his committment to revealing the truth by swearing to the contents to the CAUS affidavit, specifically to seeing EBEs and their autopsy reports. He has put his reputation and credibility on the line and has taken responsibility for certain statements in his book. CAUS now calls upon the UFO community to do the same. CAUS asks that, no matter what opinion you hold about Roswell, the Colonel or his book 'Day After Roswell', you suspend judgment, rise above unnecessary egotistic criticism that only divides us, and come together in support of both the Colonel and the CAUS lawsuit. The time has come for all of us...and I do mean all of us...to help CAUS learn the truth. We might all be surprised. CAUS also extends a very happy birthday wish to Colonel Corso who was 83 last week. Have a sensational Saturday and always...watch the skies!!! Peter A. Gersten Executive Director Be sure to visit the CAUS web site at http://caus.org To join this mailing list, go to http://caus.org/feedback.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 31 Re: UFO Burnout From: RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates] Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 13:20:13 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 11:53:03 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Burnout > Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:12:57 -0400 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Skywatch: Area 51 Still Operational > >Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:23:10 +0100 > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >From: "John Cussen (CMG UK Limited)" <john.cussen@cmgplc.com> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Skywatch: Area 51 Still Operational > John, > I only came back into this field after twenty years of absence > because I thought things had changed. After three years of > beating my head against a stone wall, I feel just as you have > so eloquently expressed it. > Personally, I see little hope. > Bob Dear John, Bob, and gang, I submit that we must first accept the UFO field for what it is, both the good and the bad, hopefully we can help make it better by our own contributions even though they may be small. When I think of people that have helped make the field better by their research, I think of Jerry Clark and his 'UFO Encylopedia', or Chris O'Brien and his 'Mysterious Valley', Kevin Randle and his Roswell and other investigations just to name a few off hand. That list is endless and can go on. Ufology will also be a field that will have unverfiable documents, unproveable films, BUT we have also seen some "verified documents" (I am thinking of Project 1947 web page as one example) and some unexplainable films. I realize that so far the "verified documents" are not as sexy say as MJ-12 briefing papers, and the alien autopsey film but still they are good. Which brings me to my next thought. Do we expect too much from the field of ufology? By that are our expectations set too high? I submit that many do have their expectations set too high. In many of the other fields that study areas of so called science the government does not necessarly recognize their work, theories, or research on a day to day or a year to year basis. They pretty well have their own circle of people that hold yearly conferences, that have their own magazines and journals and so on. Likewise you can't interest anybody, say in the field of geology, about some discovery in physics (unless it directly connects to something they are researching). Likewise you can't interest anybody in the field of tornado research about some new discovery made in the field of geology. Similarly, most in ufology are only interested in a discovery outside of our field if it somehow directly connects to us, i.e. the new planet hubble discovered. Now, some say "Well ET/UFOs are the answer to many of the mysteries on this earth....." This is what most every scientist believes about his or her field of study. So I suggest that we accept the fact that the UFO field has a lot of good, a little bad (which is most generally exposed) and that the UFO field does not revolve around the things such as the MJ-12 briefing document, the Roswell crash, alien autopsy films, or other leaked govt. documents. If our expectations are that the field does revolve around these type things, we will be disappointed and disallusioned every time. Just some thoughts Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 31 Re: Alien Baloney From: SGBList2@aol.com [Stephen G. Bassett] Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 19:39:33 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 11:55:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Baloney > From: RSchatte@aol.com [Rebecca] > Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 04:37:22 EDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Alien Baloney > =A0http://www.newtimesla.com/1998/052898/faultlines1.html > Saturday, May 30, 1998=A0=A0=A0=A0 > Browse recent Faultlines columns. > Or search News archives: =A0 > Alien Baloney > A local podiatrist says he's been surgically removing strange > objects from people who think they were implanted by space > aliens. But there are a few holes in his story > > By Skylaire Alfvegren > Kalynn Campbell ________________________________ As formal disclosure draws near it is comforting to know that scribes like Skylaire Alfvegren are lining up to ensure that Tony Ortega is not going to be all alone in the journalism jackass hall of fame. SB
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 31 Re: Alien Baloney From: "Marigold" <ZIAZ@prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 04:34:54 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 13:06:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Baloney >From: RSchatte@aol.com [Rebecca] >Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 04:37:22 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Alien Baloney >Alien Baloney <snip> >A local podiatrist says he's been surgically removing strange >objects from people who think they were implanted by space >aliens. But there are a few holes in his story ........... <snip> I've attended several UFO conventions featuring Dr. Leir and Mr. Sims, usually rather amateurish presentations that seem sloppliy thrown together, in my opinion. The two carry with them a blue velvet covered box of supposed implants, neatly contained and categorized, open for public inspection. To my astonishment, at the LAX Expo, the implant box was left open for personal scruity, which I took advantage of by inspecting with a magnifying glass (of course, revealing nothing to my untrained eyes). It's easy to be impressed with these two. Dr. Leir can rattle off intimidating medical terminology rapid-fire, and Mr. Sims speaks in a a dynamic, authorative manner, such that a meeker person would not dare challenge. However, when you get right down to it, does it make sense that the government - let alone the "aliens" would allow them to go pubically strutting about with secret, extraterrestrial implants in their possession? And left unguarded at that? That, plus the fact that the implants have been "under analysis" now for years, makes me doubtful of their veracity.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 31 Re: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted From: "Steven Kaeser" <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 07:19:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 13:02:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted >Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 04:25:28 -0700 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted >>Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:23:04 -0700 >>From: Perry Mick <perrym@teleport.com> >>To: updates@globalserve.net, brumac@compuserve.com >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bruce Maccabee Again Confronted <snip> >> I'm surprised that Dr. Macabee even takes the time to dignify >> this stuff with a response. >Yeah! There are more important issues .. like how to spell >Bruce's last name. <snip> >Bruce Maccabbee was not the author of this ugliness. >What would any of us do in a similar situation? >I don't see any quick easy answer. A solution to one segment of the problem would be to write "Maccabee" out about a dozen times until one becomes accustomed to spelling it correctly. . . . . . <g> Steve PS- I would suggest to Bruce that a "real" Internet Service Provider would be cheaper than CompuServe and he could then use "real" email software that would correct the problem with his line length.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 31 Re: Alien Baloney From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 05:17:10 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 13:00:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Baloney >From: RSchatte@aol.com [Rebecca] >Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 04:37:22 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Alien Baloney > http://www.newtimesla.com/1998/052898/faultlines1.html >Saturday, May 30, 1998 >Browse recent Faultlines columns. >Or search News archives: >Alien Baloney >A local podiatrist says he's been surgically removing strange >objects from people who think they were implanted by space >aliens. But there are a few holes in his story <snip> New list members will have to forgive me but this has been one of my pet peeves for years now so I beg your indulgence. Or you can simply trash this unread. Your choice, but you've been warned. >Leir hopes to carry out another set of surgeries in the next few >months. >And with over 100 qualified candidates on his waiting list, it >would seem that he could franchise his work. GEEZ, HERE WE GO AGAIN! Three years ago I raised an unholy stench about the Lier/Sims surgeries. Now after (three years!) with absolutely -no published scientific reports or analysis- these two irresponsible whacko's plan to cut a new crop of "abductees" to retrieve more what? "Implants?" They shouldn't be permitted to perform _new_ surgeries until the nature of the objects that have already been recovered have been properly analyzed and the results published. And I don't mean by Bob Bigelows' NIDS either! I don't trust Bob Bigelow because he's an informational black hole. He -buys- an awful lot of UFO related information directly from researchers and -none of it- is ever recycled back to the public. Sims and Lier have many ties ($?) to Bigelow.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 31 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 22 From: Masinaigan@aol.com [Joseph Trainor] Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 12:29:26 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 13:20:13 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 22 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 3, Number 22 May 31, 1998 Editor: Joseph Trainor NEW WRINKLES EMERGE IN NORTH SEA UFO CASE At the end of April, the Daily Telegraph and the Daily Mail of London reported that a giant UFO had been chased over the North Sea by British and Dutch jet interceptors. Although the RAF Press Office and the Dutch ufology group A.U.R.A. disputed the claim, new information is emerging in this controversial case. According to the British newspapers, the RAF radar station at Fylingdales, North Yorkshire picked up a giant UFO "the size of a battleship" (900 feet long) over the North Sea. An RAF jet squadron was scrambled to intercept. At the same time, two F-16 jet interceptors of the Nederlandse Luchtmacht (Netherlands Air Force) took off and caught sight of the giant UFO over the North Sea. The UFO eluded the Dutch jets and streaked away at an estimated 24,000 miles per hour. No date was given for this alleged encounter. Around May 15, 1998, however, the newspaper Tipperary Star of Tipperary, Eire reported that a local Irish couple claimed to have seen a giant UFO of the same description as the North Sea object on February 28. The story was summarized in another newspaper, the Munster Express. "A couple, described as highly respected members of the community, told the newspaper (Tipperary Star) that they saw an object in the sky between Derrynaflan and Killenaule on the night of February 28." "Because they did not want to be ridiculed, and be the butt of local jokes, they decided to remain silent about their experience. But after they heard a description of the object seen over the North Sea, they decided to come forward because their UFO was identical." "They said they clearly saw the UFO hovering at what appeared to be about 400 feet above the ground. The ship was approximately 250 feet wide and 100 feet high. It had lights, three on one side and two on the other, and had panels with vertical lines through them as distinct from windows...There was no sound at all from the object, which, at first, moved very slowly but then accelerated so fast that it disappeared in an instant." (See the Munster Express for May 22, 1998. Many thanks to Stig Agermose and Errol Bruce-Knapp for providing this newspaper story.) In the Netherlands, hosts Ivo Westerlaken and Theo Paijmans of the radio talk show Dossier X have made their own inquiries into the North Sea case. According to Westerlaken, the Nederlandse Luchtmacht "did do an internal investigation of the radar sites" but "they claimed to have found nothing out of the ordinary, but when we asked for a report on their internal investigation, they told us it had been destroyed." The Dossier X team "researched the purported UFO incident over the North Sea much more fully than A.U.R.A.," Westerlaken writes, "but for the first time in UFO-history in the Netherlands, we were confronted with angry spokespersons...Nobody wanted to say anything officially. Serious research in the Netherlands has been set back for months, if not years," adding that "some of our contacts inside the government agencies who were willing to go public have been scared away." (Email Correspondence of May 14, 1998) MICHIGAN UFOLOGIST CONFIRMS SAUCER SIGHTING IN HOWELL A second UFO sighting took place in Michigan the night of May 19, 1998, four hours after the satellite Galaxy IV went haywire. A UFO was seen flying high over Howell, Michigan, (population 8,184) about 50 miles (80 kilometers) west of Detroit, at 10:30 p.m. Jeff Westover, a sketch artist for Michigan MUFON, reports, "I, too, had a May 19, 1998 sighting in Marlette, Michigan (population 1,924) at 10:15 p.m. I noticed a large cluster of reddish lights approximately 15 to 20 degrees above the west-southwest horizon that, after two minutes of being stationary, shot straight up into the night sky." "The sighting took place at about the same time as the Howell, MI sighting," adding that his object's position near the western horizon "would put it over the Howell area if it were high enough in the sky." Marlette is in the "Thumb" area of Michigan, a town on Highway 53 approximately 55 miles (88 kilometers) north of Detroit. (Many thanks to Jeff Westover for this report.) NEW UFO SIGHTING REPORTED NEAR PITTSBURGH On Saturday, May 23, 1998, the Miniter family "had a ball game and a cookout" at their home "in the Pittsburgh area." Around 6 p.m., Mrs. Miniter reported, "My husband pointed and said sarcastically to me, 'Look at the UFO!'" "I didn't see anything for a moment., but a shimmering shine caught my eye. I gazed and spotted a huge shaft. And then my husband and I saw the second one simultaneously." "Trailing behind it perhaps a distance of a half-mile (0.8 kilometers) was another identical cigar-shaped craft with rounded edges. My brother, his wife and children, and our children all watched these things go very slowly across the sky at an altitude of 55,000 feet (16,667 meters). There was no vapor trail and no sound. Their speed was slower than any airliner, but (their size) was three times larger.than the biggest airliner." "My 15-year-old son was viewing it from a different angle (and) said it was like two halves of a baseball. It was shiny silver and metallic." (See Filer's Files #21 for 1998. Many thanks to George A. Filer, Eastern director of MUFON, for this report.) GREEN FIREBALLS SIGHTED OVER THE MOJAVE DESERT Jack Curtis does a lot of night-driving in his occupation. The job takes him from his home in Quartzite, Arizona to Sacramento, California and Parowan, Utah. He's seen a lot of strange things in the desert at night. But nothing quite so strange as what he witnessed in March 1998. "My two sightings were about a week apart in March," he reported, "Both were really large green fireballs looking basketball size. The first one was on a close flyby and was so bright it was brilliant through the clouds. I was on California Highway 58 eastward around 0200 (2 a.m.) and it was streaking over the highway eastward and was visible for five to ten seconds before disappearing. The location was between Mojave and Kramer Junction" which is located at the intersection of Highways 58 and 395 about 60 miles (96 kilometers) northeast of Los Angeles. "At Kramer Junction (also known as Four Corners, at the northeastern edge of Edwards Air Force Base--J.T.) I talked to a semi (truck) driver who witnessed it in clear skies when he was traveling west toward Kramer Junction from Barstow (population 21,472) and was quite surprised by its size, brilliance and speed." "The next one (sighting) was identical except I was westbound from Baker (population 650) toward Barstow and watched it traveling towards the north-northeast. It was a clear night and it actually made shadows on the ground. It was a spectacular sight to witness." (Many thanks to Jack L. Curtis for this report.) TEENAGE GIRL SEES A UFO OVER WASHINGTON, D.C. On Friday, May 22, 1998, at 8:30 p.m., Sherrie P. was at her home in Brentwood, Maryland (population 3,005), a suburb bordering the District of Columbia near Rhode Island Avenue and Blatonsburg Road when she spotted a UFO. Looking through her window, Sherrie "saw the object...It appeared to be the size of a star but seemed brighter and was flashing in a manner that made her question if it was a star." Grabbing her cell phone, Sherrie called her friend, who lives eight miles away in Washington, D.C. "From the position of the object in the sky (fairly low on the horizon and at about treetop level), she was certain her friend would be able to see it. It turned out the friend could not see it, due to trees blocking the view." Cell phone in hand, Sherrie went outdoors to get a better view. She reported, "It looked like a circle with a dome on top." She was unable to make out any particular details because "the whole object glowed a brilliant whitish color. The light was not constant in its intensity." She described the size of the UFO as "maybe an inch and a half (2 to 3 centimeters) at arm's length." Sherrie observed the UFO for 45 minutes, describing the action over the phone. She said she "got the strange feeling that sonehow the object knew I was looking at it." The UFO flew toward Brentwood. Sherrie instantly began walking back to her house. Then she noticed that the object was returning to its original position. Curiosity overcame her, and she walked back out to the front of her house. The UFO came closer again. She then backed up as if returning to the house, and the object seemed to back away, as well. "All the while I was describing it to my friend over the phone." (Many thanks to Steve Wilson Sr. for this report.) STRANGE GLOW AND SKY BOOMS RATTLE ZIMBABWE On Thursday, May 21, 1998, at 10:20 p.m., a brilliant white glow lit up the eastern horizon in Zimbabwe, a nation in southern Africa. The strange glow was seen from Harare, the capital, to Glendale, a distance of 75 kilometers (45 miles). In Glendale, the mysterious glow persisted for 20 minutes, and "the light was strongest" there. Immediately following the light's appearance, a serious of explosive sky booms was heard in Harare and towns to the east, including Rusape, Murewa amd Macheke. The glow was also seen in Goromonzi, near Ruta, approximately 40 kilometers (24 miles) from Harare. In 1996, a UFO reportedly landed on the playground of an elementary school in Goromonzi, and about a dozen aliens spoke for 15 minutes with the 60 children playing there. The case is being investigated by Cynthia Hind, Zimbabwe's foremost ufologist. (Many thanks to Jeroen Wierda of Picard UFO Research International and Odette for this report.) UFO APPEARS OVER A MOUNTAIN IN ITALY On May 9, 1998, at 10:30 p.m., dozens of people at Castel Sant'Angelo on Monte Giano, a mountain in the Apennine range, "saw the movement in the sky of a strange light over and around the peak of Monte Giano." A few kilometers away, "customers at a tourist restaurant also saw the light and telephoned the local police and the Guardia Forestale." Italian authorities dismissed the mysterious light as a possible flashlight carried by mountain climbers or Italian Army troops on maneuvers. Monte Giano is near Rieti, which is located 110 kilometers (66 miles) northeast of Rome. (See the Italian newspaper Corriere di Rieti for May 12, 1998. Grazie a Goffredo Pierpaoli e Edoardo Russo per questo rapporto.) TWO CROP CIRCLES APPEAR IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST Two crop circles appeared Tuesday night, May 26, 1998, in a barley field off Highway 20 in Coupeville, Washington state (population 1,377), a town on Puget Sound's Whidbey Island about 63 miles (101 kilometers) north of Seattle. The two formations appeared on land owned by Coupeville farmers Don and Roger Sherman. The first circle measured 1/4 mile (0.5 kilometers) in diameter and featured "stars and little circles all around it," with the barley flattened in a swirled fashion. The second circle was a half-mile (0.8 kilometers) from the first and set on a hillside. "Curious onlookers, television media, UFO enthusiasts and crop-circle experts showed up in droves Wednesday (May 27) after a nationally syndicated radio talk show revealed the discovery of unusual formations in barley fields just south of Coupeville." "'Basically, I saw a lot of bent grass,' said Port Townsend resident Mike Kenna, who took an early- morning ride to Whidbey Island after hearing about the crop circle Tuesday on a late-night radio talk show." "Kenna and many others...had their curiosity aroused by Coupeville resident Kelly Sweeney who relayed his experiences investigating a field of fallen barley alongside Highway 20 on 'Coast to Coast AM.' The program, hosted by Art Bell, focuses on UFOs and other tales of strange phenomena." "'It's about like somebody had drawn a line,' Sweeney said of the formation. 'Everything inside of the line is going to lie down, everything outside is going to stand up. It blew me away.'" "'There are certainly intriguing similarities (with other crop circles),' said crop-circle investigator Ilyes, who goes by only one name and who rushed to Whidbey Island from Portland (Oregon) after receiving reports about the strange formation." "Ilyes and members of the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON) used steel rods like the wire wands used for water-witching to test the barely fields for unusual energy fields." "Meanwhile, Coupeville farmers Don and Roger Sherman, who own the field the formation was found in, explained the bent barley to a steady stream of curious onlookers as and MUFON members as a combination of overfertilizing, heavy rains and high winds, not as the work of alien beings." (See the Everett, Wash. Daily Herald for May 28, 1998. Many thanks to Errol Bruce-Knapp for providing the newspaper article.) BLACK HELICOPTERS SEEN IN GLASGOW, SCOTLAND On Thursday, April 23, 1998, at about 10 p.m., Adam A. was on Prince's Street in the West End of Glasgow, Scotland's largest city, when he heard the sound of a helicopter engine. Looking up, Adam reported, he saw "a black helicopter--an Agusta Bell 212--it approached from the north and then turned to the east. It moved rather slowly, perhaps about 20 knots (airspeed). I watched it for over four minutes" before the helicopter "turned east." Adam did notice one strange detail, however. "It did have a long trailing line that was off the back which was very small and spaced so that you could see holes through it." The same week, another man spotted a black helicopter "as it hovered over the Forte Hotel in the Clydeside (section) in Erskine. "It didn't appear to be making any noise, flying to the west away from the (Clyde River) bridge. I don't know what kind of helicopter it was," adding that it "was not large and looked quite sleek and sporty." (Email Interview) (Editor's Note: Although most black helicopters have been reported in the USA, there have been sightings of them in the UK, Portugal, Italy, Brazil and Australia.) FROZEN LAKE FOUND ON MARS "A new orbital survey of Mars shows what may be a vast frozen lake in a crater and an even larger mineral bed that could be the site of an ancient sea." "'Understanding the history of water on Mars goes well beyond the search for life,' said geophysicist Philip Christiansen of Arizona State University. 'What is the geological history of Mars? It giives us insight into possible changes in the environment of Mars.'" "The startling Mars results were announced yesterday (Wednesday, May 28, 1998) at a conference of the American Geophysical Union at the Hynes Auditorium in Boston (Massachusetts, USA) The public is invited to hear the findings from the Mars Global Surveyor satellite firsthand..." "'We've seen some other features that we think are dry lake beds. This would be the first, if it is real, that is an existing ice deposit,' said geophysicist Michael Malin, who photographed the unnamed crater lake in the Southern Highlands of Mars, 240 miles (400 kilometers) south of the planet's equator." "It's extremely well-defined. It's a big feature,' Malin said. He said the dark area he photographed is about 375 square miles in area." "It could be an old lava flow, but it appears too dark for that, he said, and nearby seepage marks suggest water. It could also be dried mud deposits from an evaporated lake. But he said he believes a layer of compacted mud could be insulating a huge ice bed." "If the ice is only a yard thick, Malin said, it would amount to ten billion gallons of water. He suggested that volcanic activity in the area could have melted ground water and let it seep out of the crater walls." "Christiansen described a 60-mile-wide bed of cystalline hematite, a form of iron mineral that is typically leached from iron-rich rock by hydrothermal action or found in ocean deposits." "'It's a hint at water processes that may be producing this mineral,' Christiansen said. He said it is unclear which kind of process--hydrothermal venting from deep within Mars or an ancient ocean-- would have produced the hematite bed, in a flat area on Mars's equator." (See the Boston, Mass. Herald for May 28, 1998, "Evidence of lake found on Mars," page 3.) At the same time as the Boston conference, the Society for Planetary SETI Research announced that it had found evidence of water erosion in the Cydonia region of Mars. "Using the April (1998) data taken by MSG (Mars Global Surveyor), SPSR has has been able to validate the earlier theories involving the artificiality of the Cydonia Face. By using the geometric central points, they were able to orthographically rectify the image to match the positions of the earlier (1976) Viking images. In doing so, they have verified a 92 to 99 percent symmetry." "According to James Erjavec, the Face shows definite signs of erosion due to water-based processes." The Face "appears to show the classic signs of being an artifical construct with erosion from a period when water was liquid," not in the form of ice. (Many thanks to CAUS for this Cydonia item.) HUBBLE SPACE TELESCOPE FINDS A GIANT PLANET FAR BEYOND OUR SOLAR SYSTEM "In what could be the most important finding yet, NASA's Hubble Space Telescope has provided the first look at a possible planet outside our solar system, astronomers said Thursday," May 28, 1998. "'This is unbelievably exciting,' said astrophysicist Alan Boss of the Carnegie Institude in Washington, D.C. 'It's a major unprecedented observation.'" "The object is in our galaxy, the Milky Way, and is thought to be a gaseous giant two to three times the size of Jupiter. It appears to have been ejected into space 130 billion miles from its two parent stars about 300,000 years ago." "It is now zipping away from these stars at 48,000 miles per hour (64,000 kilometers per hour), unlike planets in our solar system which orbit the sun. Its existence could mean that there are other 'rogue' planets within the Milky Way, astronomers said." ""The object lies about 450 light-years from Earth in a star-forming region in the constellation Taurus. A light-year is about 6 trillion miles." "Astronomer Susan Terebey of the Extrasolar Research Corp. in Pasadena, California made the discovery two weeks ago from observations taken last August. She put the odds at 50-to-1 against the object being just a background star." "Hubble astronomer Ed Weiler said, 'You can bet every big telescope that can be pointed at it will be.'" (See USA Today for May 29, 1998, "Astronomers hay have bumped into a wandering planet," by Paul Hoversten, page one.) PERU PYRAMID YIELDS MOCHICA "QUEEN TUT" This week an archeological team led by Dr. Regulo Franco Jordan discovered an intact tomb in an ancient pyramid at the El Brujo ruins at Magdalena de Cao in northern Peru. According to the newspaper El Comercio, "the bones of an important female personage of the Mochica culture were discovered by archeologists digging in the Huaca de Cao Viejo (A huaca is a Peruvian mud-brick pyramid-- J.T.) in the archeoligical complex of El Brujo." "There they found a great quantity of manufactured metal objects, ceramics and the remains of a young woman who was presumably sacrificed during the funeral ceremony of the important personage." "Regulo Franco Jordan, director of the project...in the district of Magdalena de Cao...said that the tomb was found in the southwestern corner of the top platform of the pyramid temple." "In its confines they found the remains of a woman approximately 35 to 40 years old who had received an opulent funeral, obviously a person of wealth. In the left lateral corner of the same tomb they found the bones of another woman 18 to 20 years old, who may have been sacrificed as part of the funeral." The Moche civilization dominated Peru's Pacific Ocean shore from Lima north to Tumbes. The civilization, which preceded the Chimus and the Incas, began about 1500 B.C. and reached its peak in 300 A.D. Magdalena de Cao is just outside the small city of Ascope, 558 kilometers (335 miles) north of Lima. (See the Peruvian newspaper El Comercio for May 28, 1998. Muito obrigado a OVNI Brasil por eso caso.) (Editor's Note: This region has the oldest pyramids in South America, with the grandaddy of them all located at Gran Purgatorio, northeast of Ascope. Strange, too, that this older pyramid has more "manufactured metal" than the tombs of 300 A.D., supposedly the "peak" of Mochica culture. And what's with all the pyramid news lately? First Giza, then Cahokia, now El Brujo. What's next?) from the UFO Files... 1931: TWO DAYLIGHT DISCS SEEN IN NEW JERSEY This week we continue our look back at the little- known UFO flap of 1931. During June of that year, at the same time Mrs. and Mrs. Giddings witnessed strange lights on the moon from their Riverside, California home, two boys--Howard B. Menger, age 9, and his brother, Alton Menger, age 7, spotted two daylight discs at their home in High Bridge, New Jersey, about 55 miles (88 kilometers) west of New York City. Here is the story in Howard Menger's own words: "It was in this pastoral setting, in the warm lavish extravagance of June and July (1931) that I began to experience other feelings that I am at a loss to explain...About this time we began to see the discs in the sky." "My brother (Alton) and I continued seeing the bright, shining, circular objects in the sky, and one day one of them landed in the field where we were playing." "It was a disc-shaped object about ten feet (3 meters) in diameter. Afraid, but fascinated and curious, we walked toward it to get a better view. As we neared it, we noticed another bright object, a much larger one of similar design, hovering in the sky above the smaller craft, as if observing it and us." "Our hearts palpitated, but curiosity overwhelmed our fright as we proceeded cautiously." "When we were about 25 feet (7 meters) from the object, the larger airborne craft disappeared; and while we were trying to muster enough courage to go closer, the disc on the ground began vibrating, then took off at a terrific rate of speed in a blinding flash of light." (See FROM OUTER SPACE TO YOU by Howard Menger, Saucerian Books, Clarksburg, W.V., 1959, pages 20 and 21.) FUN UFO WEBSITES: Larry Craig tells me that the New York MUFON site now has an archive of sightings from that state dating from 1947 to the present. Log in at this URL...http://www.nymufon.org The current issue of The Strange newsletter is available at http://www.jb-graphics.com/thestrange Picard UFO Rsearch International (PUFORI) just opened a branch office in Brazil. The new site, PUFORI-Brasil, is at http://www.pufori.org/brazil/ index2.htm Be sure to visit our parent site, UFO INFO. More news, more photos and more UFO fun can be found at http://ufoinfo.com Back issues of UFO ROUNDUP can be read and downloaded at our webpage. Drop in anytime at http://ufoinfo.com/roundup Today is Republic Day in South Africa, so best holiday wishes to all our readers there. May 31 is an important date in South African history. On this date in 1902, the Treaty of Vereenigning was signed in Pretoria, which put an end to the Boer War. Eight years later, in 1910, the commonwealth Union of South Africa was formed by the merger of the Cape Colony, Transvaal, Natal and the Orange Free State. We'll be back next weekend with more saucer news from "the paper that goes home--UFO ROUNDUP." See you then. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1998 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO ROUNDUP on their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 31 Re: Alien Baloney From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net> Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 14:40:35 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 18:35:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Baloney > Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 05:17:10 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Alien Baloney > >From: RSchatte@aol.com [Rebecca] > >Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 04:37:22 EDT > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Alien Baloney > > http://www.newtimesla.com/1998/052898/faultlines1.html > >Saturday, May 30, 1998 > >Browse recent Faultlines columns. > >Or search News archives: > >Alien Baloney > >A local podiatrist says he's been surgically removing strange > >objects from people who think they were implanted by space > >aliens. But there are a few holes in his story > <snip> > >Leir hopes to carry out another set of surgeries in the next few > >months. > >And with over 100 qualified candidates on his waiting list, it > >would seem that he could franchise his work. > GEEZ, HERE WE GO AGAIN! Three years ago I raised an unholy stench > about the Lier/Sims surgeries. Now after (three years!) with > absolutely -no published scientific reports or analysis- these > two irresponsible whacko's plan to cut a new crop of "abductees" > to retrieve more what? "Implants?" They shouldn't be permitted to > perform _new_ surgeries until the nature of the objects that have > already been recovered have been properly analyzed and the > results published. <snip> > >Uh-huh. Can New Times at least photograph some of the purported > >implants? "They're all at labs being studied," says Leir. But as > >a reporter's questions continue, his manner gradually turns from > >polite and cooperative to petulant and demanding. Multiple detailed photos of these implants were provided to Whitley Strieber and appear in the photo blocks in his newest book "Confirmation". Strieber was also invited to personally witness some of these surguries along with a number of other folks. And he provides some fascinating info on subsequent "visitations" had by a couple of these people after their implants were removed. Of course, no doubt I'm just gullible, and all that is just a mass conspiracy by those concerned to make money. For you folks gullible like myself, I strongly recommend "Confirmation" as a good read. > >Leir claims the mystery implants have undergone complicated tests > >at a variety of laboratories, including those at Stanford, the > >University of San Diego, the New Mexico Institute of Mining and > >Technology, the Los Alamos National Laboratory, and most > >recently, a private lab in Dallas. So far, he says, the mountain > >of data derived from the tests is inconclusive about whether the > >objects are truly extraterrestrial in nature, although Leir > >clearly thinks there's a good chance they are. But, he says, "We > >won't know until we get the last piece of data." > The same old rap we've been hearing from these two for three > years! Phrases like "the mountain of data derived ... is inconclusive" and "we won't know until ..." could apply equally well to the results of ANY UFO-related investigation I'm aware of during the past 50 years. Or have I missed one someplace? But I guess these guys are held to higher standards for whatever reasons John may have. -Brian Cuthbertson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 31 Crop Circles Elsewhere In Washington? From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 21:17:01 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 18:24:59 -0400 Subject: Crop Circles Elsewhere In Washington? May 29 I posted a newspaper article about the Whidbey Island "crop circles", but it seems that those are not the only ones in Washington. The item below I received from "alt.ufo.reports" via DejaNews. Stig ******* Subject: CROP CYRCLES NEAR SEATTLE.... From: "Mhyrr..." <Skin2@concentric.net> Date: 1998/05/30 Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980530164330.856A-100000@galileo.cris.com> Newsgroups: alt.alien.research,alt.alien.visitors It was reported on the local news that a field on BAINBRIDGE ISLAND had several crop circles; pictures were taken from only slightly above ground level, no air shots, so the configuration was not clear... *Click here for a free email account from Deja News =BF *New Users =B7 *About Deja News =B7 *Ad Info =B7 *Our Advertisers =B7 *Free= Web Email =B7 *How are we doing? *Home =BF=B7=BF *Search =BF=B7=BF *Post =BF=B7=BF *My Deja News =BF=B7=BF= *Help Copyright =A9 1995-98 Deja News, Inc. All rights reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 31 Spacemen Land At Vegas Airport From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 21:32:58 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 18:33:24 -0400 Subject: Spacemen Land At Vegas Airport From: Los Angeles Times. URL: http://www.latimes.com/HOME/NEWS/LIFE/t000050670.html ******* Sunday, May 31, 1998 greater l.a. Spacemen Land at Vegas Airport By Michael P. Lucas Conspiracy theorists, secret agents and space abductees, take note: Soon you won't need to drive far out into the desert to reach the mysterious Area 51. The super-secret Air Force base cum cultural lightning rod for all things alien has inspired a themed shopping experience in Las Vegas' new $300-million airport terminal, which opens June 15. Shoppers will be able to browse under hovering spacecraft among "Star Trek" videos and glowing jewelry as lifelike space creatures peer over their shoulders. The real Area 51, 100 miles north of Las Vegas, attracts UFO buffs worldwide. Aficionados of unexplained phenomena take state Route 375--Nevada's official "Extraterrestrial Highway"--to reach the parched outpost of Rachel. They gather there at the Little A'Le'Inn tavern and motel to watch lights moving in the night sky. Key scenes of "Independence Day" were set there. McCarran International Airport's Area 51 is in the east wing of the spacious new terminal with the unglamorous name D Gates--no, not after the former L.A. police chief, but because the A, B and C gates were there first. This Area 51 will be within the Nevada Desert shopping zone, sprawling between a bank of slot machines and the duty-free shops. Kathy Hussey, an executive of airport concessionaire W.H. Smith Inc., said she had been pondering possible shopping themes for the new terminal when she happened upon an air show at Nellis AFB. There she saw the light: Actually, she spotted merchants from Rachel selling Area 51 merchandise. She hurried back to the office to contact vendors. "There is so much alien stuff out there," she said as construction workers hauled an ungainly model flying saucer through the unfinished terminal toward the future store. She plans to sell educational space videos, alien-infested lava lamps and copies of the definitive reference work, "Area 51 Viewer's Guide" by Glenn Campbell, a researcher who has done a lot to make the shadowy place a cultural icon in recent years. Meanwhile, longtime Las Vegas writer-editor Jim Barrows said he has heard word of another even more mysterious base out in the desert: Area 58. "Just mention Area 58 now and people go ballistic," he said. Copyright Los Angeles Times
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 > May > May 31 Re: Alien Baloney From: Ufojoe1@aol.com [Joe Murgia] Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 15:43:11 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 18:38:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Baloney To all that have problems with Sims and Leir: Your raise very good arguments. If you think you can do better than Sims and Leir then do it. Get some funding and help these people find out what is inside of their bodies. I don't see anybody else doing that. All I see is people running their mouths off. From what I understand, it's very expensive to have these objects analyzed. The article seemed to question this point. Does anybody else know of any surgeons that will perform a surgery (If warranted) for nothing? Come on people, start your own foundation. Put your money where... Is it everybody's belief that people claiming to have implants are all just paranoid about some foreign object in their bodies? Is it your contention that all these people really have in their bodies are metal fragments that innocently got lodged in their bodies over time? If it is, please say so. John Velez seems upset that they say the tests so far are inconclusive. Would you rather them make up some b.s. and say that they're definitely alien or what? Science takes time. If the tests turn out to be inconclusive in the end, then so be it. Maybe we will never know. As far as the names of the doctors and patients involved with this being confidential, thank god they are. Imagine what the New Times would do to their reputations. Most undoubtedly they wold make them all sound like wackos. Is it surpising to anybody on this list that people want confidentiality when it comes to being associated with this topic? I mean, come on, give me a break! Joe