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   Jul

                          UFO UpDates Mailing List
                                  Jul 1998

  Jul 1:

   Re: UFO*BC - UFO'S WARRANT STUDY - VANCOUVER - Bill Oliver [7]
   Re: Friedman's Laws for 'Debunkers' - "Stanton T. Friedman" [17]
   Re: Sheffield Incident - David Clarke [133]
   Re: Mag 1/4 -- Comments on Trindade Isl. 1/2 - Jerry Cohen [119]
   Re: Mag 1/4 -- Comments on Trindade Isl. 2/2 - Jerry Cohen [88]
   Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study - Steven Kaeser [15]
   Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study - Terry Blanton [8]
   Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4 - John Rimmer [John Harney] [15]
   Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study - Terry Blanton [9]
   Re: Local Reaction to UFO Study - Terry Blanton [13]
   Re: Further images of Roswell Debris - Philip Mantle [29]
   Re: Contact with SOHO Lost - UFO UpDates - Toronto [52]
   Re: Video of 'UFOs' Around MIR - Sue Kovios [3]
   Re: Michigan and North Carolina Sightings - Stefan Duncan [25]
   Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study - 1 Jared Anderson [18]
   Re: Meteorite in Russia - Sue Kovios [3]
   Re: 'Eliptical' Crop Circles - RobIrving@aol.com [6]
   UFO News International 38 - Henny van der Pluijm [566]
   Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4 - Dennis [71]
   Re: Meteorite in Russia - Sue Kovios [43]
   Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science' - RobIrving@aol.com [124]
   Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4 - SGBList2@aol.com [2]
   Pathfinder Finds Two Worlds On Mars - Stig Agermose [55]
   Japan Readies Mars Probe - Stig Agermose [53]
   Nick Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [19]
   Re: Detailed images of Mars? - Erica Furgison [12]
   Re: Video of 'UFOs' Around MIR - John Velez [23]
   Re: 'Believers' Say It's About Time - Stig Agermose [133]
   Non-Sub. Post - 'Alien Recovery' Team - Concorp@aol.com [Name Not
   Known] [8]
   Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study - bruce maccabee [36]
   Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4 - bruce maccabee [31]
   Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4 - bruce maccabee [56]
   Re: 'Eliptical' Crop Circles - bruce maccabee [58]
   Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study - bruce maccabee [12]
   Re: Friedman's Laws for 'Debunkers' - bruce maccabee [8]
   Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science' - bruce maccabee [21]
   Re: Jeff Glickman's report on Hoagland's conference - JJ Mercieca [8]
   Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4 - Jerome Clark [6]
   Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science' - Rod Eastman [18]
   Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4 - Jerome Clark [50]
   Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science' - Jerome Clark [76]
   Sturrock Report - Oz Physicist Weighs In - Jerome Clark [16]
   Efforts to Recover SOHO Continue - Scott Jordan [63]
   Re: Non-Sub. Post - 'Alien Recovery' Team - Jeff Westover [13]
   Re: Non-Sub. Post - 'Alien Recovery' Team - Donald Ledger [2]

  Jul 2:

   Re: Roswell Incident Not Noteworthy To UFO Panel -
   Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk [89]
   Boomerang Object Over Walthamstow East London UK - Roy Hale - Essex
   London Ufo Network [23]
   UFO Groups Increase Pressure For Hearings - Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
   [64]
   Roswell Incident Not Noteworthy To UFO Panel -
   Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk [89]
   Burning Gas In Tornadoes Causes Many UFOs? - Stig Agermose [42]
   Info Request - Roy Hale ELUFON [16]
   Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science' - RobIrving@aol.com [50]
   MUFON's Maine Director On 'Sturrock Review' -
   Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk [67]
   Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science' - RobIrving@aol.com [12]
   Re: Friedman's Laws for 'Debunkers' - Serge Salvaille [45]
   Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4 - Mark Cashman [59]
   Re: Ufology And The 'Giggle Syndrome' (Sturrock's - Stig Agermose [117]
   Re: Encounter 2001 - Greg St. Pierre [3]
   Re: 'Believers' Say It's About Time - Greg St. Pierre [30]
   CNN's Interview With Peter Sturrock (Transcript) -
   Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk [102]
   Re: Non-Sub. Post - 'Alien Recovery' Team [FYI] - Mail Delivery
   Subsystem [33]
   'Strange Universe' On Home Video - Stig Agermose [42]
   Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4 - Dennis Stacy [51]
   Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study - Melanie Mecca [22]
   Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4 - Greg Sandow [15]
   Re: Alfred Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [40]
   Re: 'Believers' Say It's About Time - John Velez [38]
   Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study - Jim Deardorff [39]
   Re: 'Eliptical' Crop Circles - Mark LeCuyer [12]
   New goals/directions for Ufology - Jerry Cohen [128]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #252 - Alfred Lehmberg [40]
   Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up - UFO UpDates - Toronto [20]
   Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science' - "Jerome Clark" [58]

  Jul 3:

   Lloyd Pye Lecture - Scott Jordan [10]
   Filer's Files #26 - George A. Filer [291]
   Re: Non-Sub. Post - 'Alien Recovery' Team - David Baker [4]
   Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4 - Jerome Clark [84]
   Hubble Simulcast Links Outer Space To Cyberspace - Mark LeCuyer [67]
   Sarah McClendon Press Release - Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk [152]
   Mysterious Flashes And Iridium Satellites - Nick Balaskas [49]
   Re: Burning Gas In Tornadoes Causes Many UFOs? - Greg St. Pierre [35]
   Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4 - Greg St. Pierre [14]
   Anthony Lake Denies UFO Briefing - UFO UpDates - Toronto [63]
   UFOs not worthy of study? - Joe Murgia [83]
   Two 'New' UFO Crashes - Greg St. Pierre [40]
   Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4 - Jerome Clark [60]
   Re: Mag 1/4 -- Comments on Trindade Isl. 1/2 - bruce maccabee [10]
   Re: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up - Joe Murgia [16]
   Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #252 - John Velez [44]
   Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #252 - Larry Hatch [21]
   Re: MUFON's Maine Director On 'Sturrock Review' - Larry Hatch [5]
   Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #252 - Jakes Louw [32]

  Jul 4:

   A Note About Jerry Black - UFO UpDates - Toronto [71]
   An Open Message To Whitley Strieber - Jerry Black - Black's Hole [147]
   An Open Letter To Linda Moulton Howe - Jerry Black - Black's Hole [167]
   Re: Burning Gas In Tornadoes Causes Many UFOs? - Larry Hatch [7]
   Re: Mag 1/4 -- Comments on Trindade Isl. 1/2 - Jerome Clark [4]
   Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #252 - Alfred Lehmberg [20]
   Re: Anthony Lake Denies UFO Briefing - Brian Cuthbertson [13]
   The Duke of Mendoza - Larry Hatch [8]
   Nua Blather: Silly Season - Monsters, UFOs, etc - Dave Walsh [236]
   A Remark By Eshleman On PBS Radio - Jim Deardorff [21]
   Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4 - Dennis Stacy [57]
   Re: Filer's Files #26 - Jeff Westover [2]
   Re: Mag 1/4 -- Comments on Trindade Isl. 1/2 - Jerry Cohen [12]
   Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study - bruce maccabee [11]
   Re: Mag 1/4 -- Comments on Trindade Isl. 1/2 - bruce maccabee [10]
   Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study - bruce maccabee [5]
   Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4 - bruce maccabee [14]
   Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science' - bruce maccabee [21]
   Re: Press Release - Bob Shell [25]
   Re: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up - bruce maccabee [50]
   Re: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up - bruce maccabee [15]
   Re: Two 'New' UFO Crashes - Joe Ritrovato [18]
   Re: Burning Gas In Tornadoes Causes Many UFOs? - bruce maccabee [41]
   Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4 - bruce maccabee [41]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #253 - Alfred Lehmberg [55]
   Re: Sheffield Facts - Max Burns [127]
   Re: The Duke of Mendoza - UFO UpDates - Toronto [16]
   Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4 - Greg Sandow [29]
   8,000-Year-Old Shoes Prove Cave-Dwellers Were - Joe Murgia [92]
   Re: A Remark By Eshleman On PBS Radio - bruce maccabee [13]
   Mexico City and 100 Witnesses? - Joe Murgia [25]
   Re: UFOs not worthy of study? - bruce maccabee [98]
   Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4 - Jerome Clark [76]
   Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4 - Greg Sandow [3]
   Re: A Remark By Eshleman On PBS Radio - Melanie Mecca [6]
   Re: Anthony Lake Denies UFO Briefing - Stephen G. Bassett [9]
   P1947: Sturrock Panel as Managed News - Moderator UFO UpDates [40]
   Re: UFOs not worthy of study? - Sean Liddle - Quinte-Eco [44]

  Jul 5:

   Re: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up - Jim Deardorff [25]
   BWW Media Alert 19980704 - [53]
   Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4 - Jerome Clark [13]
   Re: Sturrock Panel - James Easton [97]
   Re: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up - "Serge Salvaille" [16]
   The Tent Footage - Names Revealed Of The Alleged - Philip Mantle [70]
   Re: UFO Study on NPR Monday: Callers Welcome - Deborah E. Leech [54]
   Re: Anthony Lake Denies UFO Briefing - Bob Shell [4]
   Re: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up - John Velez [107]
   Chat With Deon Crosby of the International UFO - "Yvonne Hedenland"
   [24]
   Re: Sturrock Panel - Jerome Clark [27]
   Re: The Tent Footage - Names Revealed Of The - Bob Shell [8]
   Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4 - Greg Sandow [6]
   Re: Sturrock Panel - Greg St. Pierre [30]
   UFO Crashes And Water/Lake Ontario Research - Jennifer Jarvis [60]
   Re: - Vicki Cooper Ecker [4]
   Aliens "Sloppier"? - Transcript of Hopkins - Moderator UFO UpDates [93]
   Re: An Open Message To Whitley Strieber - Don Ecker [60]
   Re: An Open Message To Whitley Strieber - Vicki Cooper Ecker [4]

  Jul 6:

   Re: The Duke of Mendoza - Susan Baldwin [8]
   Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science' - RobIrving@aol.com [73]
   Re: Video of 'UFOs' Around MIR - Carlos Barboza [39]
   Re: 'Eliptical' Crop Circles - "Leanne Martin" [11]
   Re: Non-Sub. Post - 'Alien Recovery' Team - "Leanne Martin" [7]
   Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science' - RobIrving@aol.com [24]
   Correction and Apology From Jerry Black - Glenn Joyner [45]
   Artificial Structure Discovered on Moon by - Mark LeCuyer [37]
   Re: Mexico City and 100 Witnesses? - bruce maccabee [10]
   Re: Mexico City Fake [was: Lindemann & Rense Tidy - bruce maccabee [17]
   Re: A Remark By Eshleman On PBS Radio - bruce maccabee [4]
   Re: Mexico City Fake [was: Lindemann & Rense Tidy - bruce maccabee [81]
   Re: 'Eliptical' Crop Circles - Leanne Martin [45]
   Re: Mexico City Fake [was: Lindemann & Rense Tidy - bruce maccabee [28]
   Re: Sturrock Panel/skeptics - bruce maccabee [29]
   Re: Aliens "Sloppier"? - Transcript of Hopkins - Robert Stirniman [6]
   Clarification from Jerry Black - Kenny Young [13]
   New Frontier Magazine - Sue Kovios [13]
   Ruppelt Index Approaches Completion - Gary Alevy [86]
   From the FBI Web Page - Terry Blanton [58]
   Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science' - Jerome Clark [47]
   Re: Artificial Structure Discovered - Andy Denne - A.U.R.A. [19]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 27 - Joseph Trainor [528]
   Re: Sturrock Panel/skeptics - Jerome Clark [11]
   Hancock on Hawass - Moderator UFO UpDates - Toronto [69]
   Re: From the FBI Web Page - Jerome Clark [12]
   'The Chinese Roswell' - John D. Chambers [9]
   Re: Artificial Structure Discovered on Moon - Donnie W. Shevlin [13]
   Re: Sturrock Panel - "Greg Sandow" [30]
   Re: Video of 'UFOs' Around MIR - John Velez [27]
   Re: Sheffield Incident - David Clarke [218]
   Re: Artificial Structure Discovered on Moon - Bill Jacobs [27]
   William Cooper Taking On Authorities - Don Ecker [124]
   Re: Mexico City Fake - Jim Deardorff [24]
   CSICOP Responds to SSE UFO Report - Geoff G. Dittman [119]
   Re: Artificial Structure Discovered on Moon - Bob Shell [4]
   Re: UFO Crashes And Water/Lake Ontario Research - Greg St. Pierre [7]
   Re: Artificial Structure Discovered on Moon - Alfred Lehmberg [21]
   Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science' - RobIrving@aol.com [12]
   Re: Mexico City Fake - Dennis Stacy [19]
   UFO*BC Quarterly - Summer 9 - Dave Pengilly - UFO*BC [18]
   Re: From the FBI Web Page - Terry Blanton [25]

  Jul 7:

   P1947 - Re: CSICOP Responds to SSE UFO Reports - Wendy Connors [90]
   Re: Believers' Say It's About Time - Sue Strickland [11]
   Re: Artificial Structure Discovered on Moon - Sue Kovios [11]
   Re: Sturrock Panel - John White [57]
   Re: Sturrock Report - John Rimmer [28]
   Re: William Cooper Taking On Authorities - John Velez [47]
   Re: Aliens "Sloppier"? - Transcript of Hopkins - Skye Turell [32]
   Re: Mexico City Fake - "Serge Salvaille" [39]
   Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science' - Jerome Clark [25]
   Re: Sturrock Report - "Jerome Clark" [41]
   The Whistleblowers - Cooper Part I - Don Ecker [148]
   The Whistleblowers - Cooper Part II - Don Ecker [143]
   The Whistleblowers - Cooper Part III - Don Ecker [242]
   The Whistleblowers - Cooper Addendum - Don Ecker [129]
   Re: Filer's Files #26 - George Filer [3]
   Re: Aliens "Sloppier"? - Transcript of Hopkins - Bill Weber [11]

  Jul 8:

   Roswell Draws 10,000 Visitors For 'UFO Encounter' -
   Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk=20 [37]
   My SETI Post - Greg St. Pierre [44]
   Re: Sturrock Report - Greg Sandow [12]
   Researcher Seeks Answers To Report Of UFO Crash In -
   Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk [143]
   Mars Life? Rock Hardens The Debate - Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk [181]
   Chat with Mike Coyle - Angela Shilling [51]
   Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science' - RobIrving@aol.com [78]
   Re: 'Eliptical' Crop Circles - RobIrving@aol.com [11]
   Re: Mexico City Fake - John Velez [39]
   Re: CSICOP Responds to SSE UFO Report - bruce maccabee [11]
   Beckjord on Sturrock & Von Eschleman - Pat Parrinello [32]
   Cooper - Maccabee Adds To The Story - bruce maccabee [59]
   Re: Sturrock Report - bruce maccabee [20]
   Re: Sturrock Panel/skeptics - bruce maccabee [8]
   Re: Why Did The Ufologist Cross The Road? - Greg Sandow [25]
   New Book - 'Managing Martians' - Sue Kovios [13]
   Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science' - "Greg Sandow" [15]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #254 - Alfred Lehmberg [64]
   Rantings from the Edge - Bill Cooper - Don Ecker [143]

  Jul 9:

   'True Abduction' - Abduction Experience Told - Ben Field [11]
   Re: Beckjord on Sturrock & Von Eschleman - Nick Balaskas [37]
   UFO Enthusiasts Set To Converge On Alberta Town - Stig Agermose [58]
   Tunisia and UFOs - Sean Jones [54]
   UFO*BC - Yukon Sightings - Bill Oliver [3]
   UFO TV Show - Thursday, July 9 - David Pengilly - UFO*BC [10]
   Re: Cooper - Maccabee Adds To The Story - Greg Sandow [21]
   Re: Space Dust May Be Another Solar System Similar -
   Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk [64]
   Re: UFO Enthusiasts Set To Converge On Alberta Town - John Velez [8]
   Re: Sturrock Report - John Rimmer [25]
   Re: Why Did The Ufologist Cross The Road? - Scott Carr [7]
   'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights - frances emma barwood [13]
   P1947 - Jan Aldrich's Roswell Trip - Jan Aldrich [43]
   Re: Cooper - Maccabee Adds To The Story - Andy Denne [10]
   Re: Correction and Apology From Jerry Black - Beverly B. Pilcher [26]
   Curious Sighting - Marty Garza [35]
   Re: Mexico City Fake - bruce maccabee [17]
   Re: UFO Enthusiasts Set To Converge On Alberta Town - Geoff G. Dittman
   [8]
   Re: Sturrock Report - Greg Sandow [27]
   The Case For Humanoids - Mark Pilkington [148]
   Re: Elaine Douglas on John Ford - Elaine M Douglass [94]
   Re: Why Did The Ufologist Cross The Road? - John Velez [3]
   Filer's Files #27 - George A. Filer [295]

  Jul 10:

   Re: Curious Sighting - Nick Balaskas [17]
   Re: Curious Sighting - "Serge Salvaille" [7]
   Re: UFO Enthusiasts Set To Converge On Alberta Town - John Velez [9]
   Triangle Spotted In New Hampshire - Stig Agermose [9]
   Re: Cooper - Maccabee Adds To The Story - bruce maccabee [20]
   Whitley Streiber Responds to Jerry Black - Kathleen Andersons [25]
   Obituary For Leader In Search For ET Life - Stig Agermose [32]
   Impact Zone Of Greenland Meteorite Confirmed -
   Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk [40]
   Chat with Max Burns - #ufo/esp channel [14]
   Info Request - Lydia [11]
   Re: Sturrock Report - John Rimmer [43]
   Sheffield and Flying Triangles - Max Burns [60]
   'Alien Interview' - Tim Matthews [9]
   Flying Triangles - Unanwsered Questions - Roy Hale [51]
   Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science' - "Jerome Clark" [40]
   Kokomo, Indiana UFO Sighting: June, 1998 - Kenny Young [60]
   Re: Sturrock Report - Jerome Clark [49]
   UFOR - Uri Geller on 'Aviary' - Francisco Lopez [45]
   Re: Sheffield and Flying Triangles - Tim Matthews [134]
   Re: Cooper - Maccabee Adds To The Stor - Jerome Clark [7]
   Re: The Case For Humanoids - Jerome Clark [58]
   CE: Meteorite - Francis Ridge [13]
   Kokomo typo mishap - Kenny Young [11]

  Jul 11:

   Re: UFOR - Uri Geller on 'Aviary' - Sean Liddle [13]
   Re: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights - Susan Baldwin [12]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #255 [Restore John Ford!] - Alfred Lehmberg [97]
   Re: Cooper - Maccabee Adds To The Story - Andy Denne - A.U.R.A. [17]
   Re: Triangle Spotted In New Hampshire - Greg St. Pierre [4]
   Saucer Shaped And Remote Controlled US Craft -
   Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk [35]
   Re: CE: Meteorite - Francis Ridge [3]
   Re: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights - Alfred Lehmberg [15]
   Advertising And UFOs - Joaquim Fernandes [17]
   'Atlanta Journal-Constitution' Questionaire - Terry Blanton [44]
   Re: - Donald Ledger [25]
   Re: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights - Donald Ledger [25]

  Jul 12:

   Re: UFOR - Uri Geller on 'Aviary' - Jerome Clark [15]
   Z-shaped UFOs Reported in Northern England - Tim Matthews [8]
   UFO*BC - Historical Report - Bill Oliver [22]
   UFO*BC - More From The Surrey Corridor - Bill Oliver [140]
   UFO*BC - Surrey Corridor - Bill Oliver [133]
   Re: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights - Susan Baldwin [15]
   In Defence of Andy Denne et al - Larry Hatch [6]
   Ohio UFO Poll - Stig Agermose [60]
   Frances Emma Barwood Campaign Event with Richard - Stig Agermose [57]
   St. Paul, Alberta UFO Conference Update - Stig Agermose [51]
   UK UFO Flap July 10 (BBC) - Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk [54]
   UK Sighting 1978 (Serious Researchers Wanted) -
   Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk [28]
   Scientists Warn Of Most Intense Meteor Storm Since -
   Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk=20 [44]
   UK Mystery Lights: No Meteor Involved? - Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
   [52]
   BWW Media Alert 19980711 - Bufo Calvin [76]
   Seeking Intelligent Life Out There And Right Here - Mark LeCuyer [84]
   Nua Blather: Weird Achill - Dave Walsh [222]
   Lights In Sky Leave Britain In Grip Of The - John Hayes [39]
   Re: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights - Doc Barry in Phoenix [13]
   Time Travel - Quantum Strangeness And Spacetime - Mark LeCuyer [148]
   Re: UFOR - Uri Geller on 'Aviary' - Joe Murgia [14]
   Re: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights - Susan Baldwin [9]
   Re: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights - bruce maccabee [22]
   Re: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights - John Velez [71]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 28 - Joseph Trainor [500]
   UK Meteor Blast Mystery - David Clarke [64]
   Re: Remote Controlled US Craft - Sue Strickland [16]
   Intruders Foundation Is Back Online - Budd Hopkins & John Velez [26]
   UK UFO Flap July 10? - Werner Walter [4]
   Yakima, Washington Sighting? - Justin J. Patterson [5]
   Report on the St. Paul, Alberta UFO Conference - Chris Rutkowski [154]
   Chat With Don Ledger, UFO Investigator - Yvonne Hedenland [18]
   Re: UK Meteor Blast Mystery - Robert Moore [51]
   Imposter Crashes UFO Conference, St. Paul, Alberta - Sue Kovios [24]
   The McDonald Report - December 1969 - Francisco Lopez [1794]
   Re: 'Atlanta Journal-Constitution' Questionaire - Larry Hatch [16]

  Jul 13:

   UFO*BC - Wilbert Smith Lecture - Bill Oliver [5]
   UFO*BC - Latest Sighting - Bill Oliver [20]
   Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science' - RobIrving@aol.com [11]
   Re: Sturrock Panel - James Easton [89]
   A Note On My Recent Hospitalization - By Budd - Budd Hopkins via John
   Velez [55]
   Re: UK Meteor Blast Mystery - jonathan pressburger [15]
   Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 28 & Orbit - Joseph Trainor [22]
   Re: UK Meteor Blast Mystery - Werner Walter [18]
   Re: Sturrock Panel - Steven Kaeser [71]
   HOT GOSSIP UK - July 98 - Georgina Bruni [321]

  Jul 14:

   Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science' - Jerome Clark [16]
   Re: Weirdness This Morning - Bob Young [27]
   Re: Sturrock Panel - Jerome Clark [12]
   Re: Flying Triangles - Max Burns [42]
   Re: UK Meteor Blast Mystery - Kerry Ferrand [5]
   ACC [FYI Only - Not For Discussion] - "Skywatch International Inc."
   [85]
   1947 U.S. Army Document On 'Flying Wing' Aircraft -
   Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk [11]
   Re: War Games Often Mistaken For UFOs In Tristate - Stig Agermose [122]
   Abduction Research - Roy Hale [13]
   A Big Thank You From ELUFON & 'Down to Earth - Roy Hale [23]
   One For The Conspiracy Theorists - Leanne Martin [15]
   UK FT's and Saucers - Jakes Louw [17]
   NASA Establishes Near-Earth Object Program Office -
   NASANews@hq.nasa.gov [49]
   Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science' - RobIrving@aol.com [10]

  Jul 15:

   Re: Flying Triangles - "Mark LeCuyer" [22]
   DISPATCH # 97 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope - ParaScope@AOL.COM
   [131]
   Bormann Demystifies Gemini 7 UFO Myth - Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
   [23]
   Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science' - "Jerome Clark" [22]
   STARDUST Status Report - Mark LeCuyer [38]
   NASA May Send the Marie Curie Rover to Mars - Mark LeCuyer [71]
   CE: Open Letter to The Cincinnati Enquirer - Kenny Young [77]
   CE: 'War Games Mistaken for UFOs' - Kenny Young [141]
   Re: Flying Triangles - AlienHype1@aol.com [11]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #256 - Alfred Lehmberg [51]
   Re: Bormann Demystifies Gemini 7 UFO Myth - Marie Ivey [2]
   Cops Probe Origin of Aussie Drawing - Rebecca [32]
   Re: A Remark By Eshleman On PBS Radio - Sheree Cox [16]
   Triangular UFOs over Belgium - "Kyle R. Mcallister" [28]
   Re: A New Prescription for Hubble - Mark LeCuyer [50]
   Re: Sturrock Panel - Greg Sandow [100]
   Re: CE: Open Letter to The Cincinnati Enquirer - Greg St. Pierre [40]
   Re: Bormann Demystifies Gemini 7 UFO Myth - Kari Valimaa - Suomen
   Ufotutkijat ry. [57]
   Re: Bormann Demystifies Gemini 7 UFO Myth - Nick Balaskas [27]
   More Foo-Fighters - Jan Aldrich [22]
   Re: CE: Open Letter to The Cincinnati Enquirer - RobIrving@aol.com [12]
   Foo Fighters - NY Times Jan 2 1945 - Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk [68]
   P1947: Foo Fighter Question - Jan Aldrich [31]
   Re: Sturrock Panel - Mark Cashman [34]

  Jul 16:

   UFOs and Power Loss - Moderator UFO UpDates [243]
   P1947: NY Blackout - Francis Ridge [83]
   Re: Foo Fighters - NY Times Jan 2 1945 - Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
   [15]
   Re: Bormann Demystifies Gemini 7 UFO Myth - Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
   [36]
   UK & London Sightings 1997? - Tony Spurrier [6]
   Re: Sturrock Panel - "Steven Kaeser" [18]
   Re: CE: Open Letter to The Cincinnati Enquirer - Greg St. Pierre [18]
   HEATWAVE '98 - British UFO Studies Centre - Philip Mantle [238]
   UFOR: Chupacabra Update - Francisco Lopez - UFOR [29]
   Re: CE: Open Letter to The Cincinnati Enquirer - Steven Kaeser [48]
   NATO 'Firefly' - Black Budget Stealth? - Graham M. Wilson [36]
   UFO luminosity - some observations - Mark Cashman [172]
   Second Interview with Eve Lorgen - Patricia Mason [258]
   Re: 'Sturrock Panel' - Francis Ridge [18]

  Jul 17:

   Kevin McClure and Nazi UFOs - Jack Veach [33]
   Re: 'Sturrock Panel' - Steven Kaeser [8]
   Filer's Files #28-1998 - George A. Filer [304]
   Col. Corso & Hoax Photograph - Kevin Randle [26]
   Re: NATO 'Firefly' - Black Budget Stealth? - Greg St. Pierre [21]
   Re: Sturrock Panel - Greg St. Pierre [18]
   The 'Society For Scientific Exploration' On -
   Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk [120]
   Flying Saucers And Frisbees - Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk [26]
   Galileo Reveals Hints Of Ganymede's Past Ocean - Stig Agermose [55]
   Upcoming TV Documentaries On Greer's Ideas -
   Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk [62]
   Re: UFO UpDate: NATO 'Firefly' - Black Budget - Tim Matthews [35]
   Re: CE: Open Letter to The Cincinnati Enquirer - RobIrving@aol.com [13]
   Re: HEATWAVE '98 - British UFO Studies Centre - Rory Lushman [129]
   Re: NATO 'Firefly' - Black Budget Stealth? - "Donnie W. Shevlin" [8]
   Re: UFOs and Power Loss - Bob Shell [10]
   Re: Kevin McClure and Nazi UFOs - Jean-Luc Rivera [25]
   Re: The 'Society For Scientific Exploration' On - Don Ecker [25]
   BULLETIN -- Col. Philip Corso Dies - Michael Lindemann [18]
   Chat with Alan Boyle, Editor MSNBC's Space News - Yvonne Hedenland [21]
   Re: 'Sturrock Panel' - Greg St. Pierre [4]
   Lazar Critique By A Physicist - Keith Woodard [7]
   Re: The 'Society For Scientific Exploration' On - bruce maccabee [5]
   New FUFOR Publications - Steven Kaeser [64]
   Re: NATO 'Firefly' - Black Budget Stealth? - Kerry Ferrand [8]
   Re: 'Sturrock Panel' - bruce maccabee [1]
   Re: NATO 'Firefly' - Black Budget Stealth? - Max Burns [3]
   Re: UFOR: Chupacabra Update - Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo [9]
   Nua Blather: On the Boyle - Dave Walsh [323]

  Jul 18:

   Re: The 'Society For Scientific Exploration' On - bruce maccabee [66]
   Re: The 'SSE' On Skeptics - Jean van Gemert [7]
   New Scientist: ET Bacteria Cause Of Human Diseases? - Stig Agermose
   [61]
   The Rod - Jim Deardorff [43]
   The Corso Affidavit for CAUS - Stig Agermose [56]
   Re: One For The Conspiracy Theorists - Keith Woodard [3]
   Re: New FUFOR Publications - Steven Kaeser [6]
   Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #257 - Alfred Lehmberg [102]
   Re: 'Sturrock Panel' - Steven Kaeser [7]
   Ohio Crop Circle Discovered: July, 1998 - Kenny Young [108]
   Skeptic Spooks - Max Burns [36]
   UPDATE on COL. CORSO'S PASSING - CNINews1@aol.com [52]

  Jul 19:

   Re: Lazar Critique By A Physicist - "Mark LeCuyer" [33]
   Re: One For The Conspiracy Theorists - Rob Meyer [2]
   Re: Triangular UFOs over Belgium - Serge Salvaille [14]
   Re: The Rod - Greg St.Pierre [38]
   MAGONIA ETH BULLETIN #5 - Mark Pilkington [317]
   Foo-Fighters--A German View - Jan Aldrich [189]
   Re: The Rod - Terry Blanton [13]
   Re: 'Sturrock Panel' - greg St. Pierre [3]
   Re: The 'SSE' On Skeptics - bruce maccabee [7]
   Ham Radio Expert Assists SETI Search - Stig Agermose [119]
   BWW Media Alert 19980719 - [85]
   Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS - Stanton T. Friedman [11]

  Jul 20:

   Roswell 'Flowered Tape' Mentioned At The Get-Go - Stig Agermose [40]
   UK Crop Circle Conference - Stig Agermose [57]
   Why Migranes Don'T Explain UFOs - Mark Cashman [157]
   Re: One For The Conspiracy Theorists - "Keith Woodard" [5]
   Re: The Rod - Jim Deardorff [18]
   Re: Down-To-Earth About Aliens (On MUFON) - Stig Agermose [256]
   Re: The Rod - Rebecca [3]
   P1947: NASA and film about space debris/UFOs - Antonio Huneeus [16]
   P1947: Publications of Note - Robert Swiatek [40]
   Re: Foo-Fighters: The German view - Jan Aldrich [59]
   Skywatch: New Clues To Marree Man Mystery - Skywatch International
   [161]
   Ancient Indian Astronomers Knew Speed Of Light? - Moderator, UFO
   UpDates [37]
   Scientists To Map Out Astrobiology Strategy - Stig Agermose [89]
   Meier Pictures - Andy Dene - A.U.R.A. [76]
   Re: Roswell 'Flowered Tape' Mentioned At The Get-Go - Stanton T.
   Friedman [7]
   Re: The Rod - Bob Shell [6]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 29 - Joseph Trainor [481]
   Re: Meier Pictures - Steven Kaeser [9]
   Re: Lazar Critique By A Physicist - Keith Woodard [14]
   Re: Meier Pictures - Sean Liddle - Quinte-Eco [15]
   Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS - Jan Aldrich [22]
   P-1947: Fred Whiting on Roswell - Herb Taylor [66]
   Re: The Rod - John Velez [45]
   Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs - Max Burns [12]
   Re: The Rod - Alfred Lehmberg [10]
   Mr. Werner Walter And His Reality - Joachim Koch [60]
   Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS - Robert Todd [46]
   Conference Focuses on Life in Space - Rebbeca [49]
   Re: Why Migranes Don't Explain UFOs - Stanton T. Friedman [5]
   Tactical Techniques Of UFOs - Jennifer Jarvis [16]
   Chat with Linda Moulton Howe - Yvonne Hedenland [21]

  Jul 21:

   Re: Fred Whiting on Roswell - Stig Agermose [17]
   UFO*BC - Naval Report 1922 - Bill Oliver - UFO*BC [51]
   Sightings From ELUFON U.K. - Roy Hale [51]
   Clinton's UFO Circle - Stig Agermose [113]
   Home PC's Help SETI Search For ETs - Stig Agermose [76]
   Re: TV Documentaries On Greer's Ideas - Robert Gates [33]
   Roswell Witnesses Interviewed By Houston Chronicle - Stig Agermose
   [297]
   Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #257 - Jakes Louw [15]
   Re: Mr. Werner Walter And His Reality - "A.U.R.A." [12]
   Philip Mantle 'Signs-off' - Philip Mantle [37]
   P-1947: Project SIGN Research Center - Wendy Connors [8]
   P-1947: Congratulations to Fred Whiting - Greg Long [40]
   Subscribers Posting To Other Lists - Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [13]
   Major updates to the Temporal Doorway UFO Section - Mark Cashman [55]
   Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs - John Rimmer [31]
   P-1947 Re: Fred Whiting on Roswell - Larry Clark [7]
   C-E: The Great Wave: October, 1973 - Kenny Young [43]
   Skywatch: Marree Man - Skywatch International [70]
   Re: Marree Man - Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto [32]
   Marree Man Photo - Doc Barry in Phoenix [8]
   Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs - Mark Cashman [35]

  Jul 22:

   Re: Mr. Werner Walter And His Reality - Werner Walter [54]
   11th Annual 'The UFO Experience' Conference - John White [129]
   Re: Meier Pictures - The Duke of Mendoza - Peter Brookesmith [30]
   Re: Triangular UFOs over Belgium - The Duke of Mendoza - Peter
   Brookesmith [36]
   Re: Mr. Werner Walter And His Reality - Jan Aldrich [20]
   Re: Mr. Werner Walter And His Reality - Jakes Louw [42]
   Re: Roswell Witnesses Interviewed By Houston - Bob Shell [13]
   Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs - RobIrving@aol.com [21]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #258 - Alfred Lehmberg [78]
   Astronaut Alan Shepard Passes Away - Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [7]
   P-1947: Death of Alan Shepard - Wendy Connors [3]
   Re: TV Documentaries On Greer's Ideas - Bruce Maccabee [5]
   Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs - Bruce Maccabee [102]
   Goldin on the death of Alan Shepard - NASANews@hq.nasa.gov [22]
   Team Atlantis Online - Michael Arbuthnot [68]
   Re: Roswell Witnesses Interviewed By Houston - Donnie W. Shevlin [13]
   Re: Philip Mantle 'Signs-off' - Sean Jones [12]
   Re: Philip Mantle 'Signs-off' - John Velez [13]
   Skeptics, 17th Century Style - Greg Sandow [69]
   Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs - Mark Cashman [46]
   Bond Johnson & Regher on Bell - James Bond Johnson [13]
   NASA: On Alan Shepard, First American Astronaut - NASANews@hq.nasa.gov
   [125]
   Re: TV Documentaries On Greer's Ideas - John Velez [10]
   Re: Triangular UFOs in the Quinte Area - Sean Liddle Quinte-Eco [68]
   Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS - Stanton T. Friedman [36]

  Jul 23:

   Re: WARNING: Incorrect Information On The Artbell - William Hand [33]
   P-1947: Project 1947 on Sightings Radio - Jan Aldrich [11]
   Re: Sheriff Sees Prank And No Aliens In Crop Circle - Stig Agermose
   [92]
   Klass Question - Scott Jordan [2]
   Re: TV Documentaries On Greer's Ideas - Greg St. Peirre [8]
   Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 03 - Greg Sandow [3]
   Re: Roswell Witnesses Interviewed By Houston - Bob Shell [15]
   Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs - Greg Sandow [59]
   Re: Meier Pictures - Don Ecker [29]
   Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS - Robert Todd [71]
   Sheriff Sees A Prank And No Aliens In Crop Circle - Kenny Young [93]
   Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs - John Rimmer [40]
   Re: Klass Question - Dennis Stacy [2]
   Re: Klass Question - Greg Sandow [3]
   Re: Klass Question - KRandle993@aol.com [2]
   Re: Klass Question - Don Ecker [7]
   Re: Klass Question - Bob Shell [2]
   Re: Klass Question - Paul B. Thompson - ParaScope [5]
   Re: Sheriff Sees Prank And No Aliens In Crop Circle - RobIrving@aol.com
   [6]
   Re: TV Documentaries On Greer's Ideas - Donald Ledger [5]
   Re: Freedom of Information Bill in the UK? - Tim Matthews [52]
   P-1947: The Sturrock Panel: The Next Step - Jan Aldrich [57]

  Jul 24:

   ORB activity on Lake Ontario - Jennifer Jarvis [14]

  Jul 23:

   Re: Researcher Presents Case For Liquid Water On -
   Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk [86]

  Jul 24:

   Re: Klass Question - Karl T. Pflock [5]
   Re: Meier Pictures - Bruce Maccabee [7]
   Re: TV Documentaries On Greer's Ideas - Jennifer Jarvis [17]
   New Web Site for Stanton Friedman - Stanton T. Friedman [7]
   Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs - Mark Cashman [102]
   Re: Klass Question - Rebecca [1]
   Re: Triangular UFOs over Belgium - Serge Salvaille [48]
   Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS - Stanton T. Friedman [17]
   Re: Klass Question - Stanton T. Friedman [2]
   Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs - RobIrving@aol.com [7]
   Re: Klass Question - Bob Shell [12]
   P-1947: Fred Whiting on Roswell - Post Script - Herb Taylor [16]
   [lunascan]: The Dark Side of The Moon - slk [14]
   Re: Meier Pictures - Nick Balaskas [9]
   Re: Klass Question - Paul Thompson [12]
   Re: Philip Mantle 'Signs-off' - Bruno Mancusi [25]
   Re: Meier Pictures - Don Ecker [26]
   Baffling Crop Formations In Cache, Utah - Stig Agermose [55]
   Re: Philip Mantle 'Signs-off' - Steven Kaeser [18]
   Re: Meier Pictures - John Velez [21]
   Re: Baffling Crop Formations In Cache, Utah - Bob Shell [6]
   Re: - Robert Todd [128]
   Filer's Files #29 - George A. Filer [368]
   35th Edition Of The National UFO Conference - Karl T. Pflock [48]

  Jul 25:

   Re: Meier Pictures - Andy Denne - A.U.R.A. [16]
   The Chinese Roswell - Stig Agermose [109]

  Jul 24:

   Nua Blather: Alphabeti Reticulans - Dave Walsh [229]

  Jul 25:

   Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS - Robert Todd [128]
   Re: Meier Pictures - Mendoza, Duke Peter Brookesmith [40]
   Missouri UFO Crash In 1865? - Stig Agermose [26]
   Casteel On Bigelow - Stig Agermose [109]
   Aurora Crash 1897: Full Scale Research Project - Stig Agermose [28]
   UFO News Items From The Fringe - Stig Agermose [123]
   Re: Meier Pictures - Anthony Hall [82]
   See Mars in 3-D - Mark LeCuyer [36]
   Re: Philip Mantle 'Signs-off' - Philip Mantle [26]
   Re: Nua Blather: Alphabeti Reticulans - Greg St. Pierre [15]
   UFOs, Skeptics and The Misinformed - Dave Ledger [118]
   Re: Meier Pictures - Andy Denne - A.U.R.A. [71]

  Jul 26:

   Re: Meier Pictures - Bruce Maccabee [13]
   US Criminal Law - Defamation On Webpages - Stig Agermose [28]
   Re: The Sturrock Panel: The Next Step - Bruce Maccabee [34]
   Re: Aurora Crash 1897: Full Scale Research Project - Kerry Ferrand [8]
   Re: Triangular UFOs over Belgium - Peter Duke of Mendoza Brookesmith
   [69]
   SETI's Home PC Project: Further Details - Stig Agermose [143]
   SPSR Issues MGS Cydonia Report To NASA - JJ Mercieca [319]
   BWW Media Alert 19980726 - Bufo Calvin [84]
   Re: The Chinese Roswell - Bruno Mancusi [30]
   Re: Meier Picture - Don Ecker [36]
   Re: US Criminal Law - Defamation On Webpages - Rod Eastman [5]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 30 - Joseph Trainor [420]
   Re: Meier Pictures - Kal K. Korff [40]
   Greek UFO Groups? - Werner Walter [3]
   Re: Federal Criminal Law Against Defamation On - Larry Clark [6]
   Lake Ontario 'Streaks' - Jennifer Jarvis [18]
   Re: Sturrock Panel - James Easton [133]

  Jul 27:

   (Skyopen) USGS Live Volcano Cam Catches UFO - gerry [13]
   Re: Philip Mantle 'Signs-off' - Bob Shell [14]
   Philip Mantle "Rewarded" - Philip Mantle [17]
   Kal! You're here! - Keith Woodard [2]
   Re: Meier Pictures - Bob Shell [6]
   London, Ohio Correctional Institute - Unravelled - Kenny Young [91]
   Re: Lake Ontario 'Streaks' - Nick Balaskas [35]
   From Jerry Black Re: A Response From Whitley - Kenny Young [10]
   'Alien Abductions' by Peter Brookesmith - Moderator, UFO UpDates -
   Toronto [98]
   Re: (Skyopen) USGS Live Volcano Cam Catches UFO - Greg Sandow [9]
   Re: (Skyopen) USGS Live Volcano Cam Catches UFO - Steven Kaeser [4]

  Jul 28:

   Summer 1947 Blackheath Common, South London - Stig Agermose [63]
   Re: UFO News Items From The Fringe - Nick Balaskas [15]
   Re: (Skyopen) USGS Live Volcano Cam Catches UFO - Mark Cashman [9]
   Re: 'Alien Abductions' by Peter Brookesmith - Pat Parrinello [10]
   Close Encounter With Comet Wild-2 - Nick Balaskas [28]
   Re: Missouri UFO Crash In 1865? - Nick Balaskas [18]
   Re: Kal! You're here! - TotlResrch@aol.com [131]
   UFO*BC Updates- Sightings On The Radio - Bill Oliver [10]
   Re: Greek UFO Groups? - George Barkouris [15]
   'Paradigm Clock' Re-set - Stephen G. Bassett [45]
   British Attempt To 'Sniff' Out Life On Mars - Stig Agermose [60]
   DISPATCH # 98 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope - ParaScope@AOL.COM
   [88]
   Re: Kal! You're here! - Keith Woodard [46]
   Re: Kal! You're here! - Mark Cashman [7]
   They Drop Like a Rock! - Mark LeCuyer [18]
   Re: Triangular UFOs over Belgium - Serge Salvaille [54]
   C-E: What To Do With Sturrock? - slk [136]
   Rosie - Sheree Cox [9]
   Ohio Crop Circe: Explained? - Kenny Young [66]
   Re: Lake Ontario 'Streaks' - Jennifer Jarvis [17]
   Re: British Attempt To 'Sniff' Out Life On Mars - Nick Balaskas [24]
   Re: They Drop Like a Rock! - Greg St. Pierre [17]
   Re: They Drop Like a Rock! - Kerry Ferrand [9]
   Scientists Complete Study Of Strange Lights - Stig Agermose [41]
   Re: They Drop Like a Rock! - Terry Blanton [25]
   Re: 'Paradigm Clock' Re-set - Nick Balaskas [21]
   Southerners Less Inclined To 'Believe In' UFOs - Stig Agermose [76]

  Jul 29:

   Re: They Drop Like a Rock! - gt mccoy [11]
   Re: Scientists Complete Study Of Strange Lights - Stig Agermose [47]
   Catalog of Levelland concentration, Nov 1957 - Mark Cashman [24]
   Re: 'Alien Abductions' by Peter Brookesmith - John Velez [46]
   P-1947 Re: Catalog of Levelland concentration, Nov - Mark Cashman [52]
   Re: They Drop Like a Rock! - Donnie W. Shevlin [14]
   Re: 'Paradigm Clock' Re-set - Diana Botsford [16]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #259 - Alfred Lehmberg [78]
   Re: They Drop Like a Rock! - Kevin Randle [3]
   UFO Submersion - Greg St. Pierre [54]
   UK UFO Conference - Cornwall U.F.O Research Group - Raine & Crow [27]
   '_Have_ to Believe' Investigating - Tony Spurrier [83]
   Re: They Drop Like a Rock! - Alfred Lehmberg [18]
   Re: Catalog of Levelland concentration, Nov 1957 - David Rudiak [167]

  Jul 30:

   Article On Linda Howe - Stig Agermose [96]
   Strieber's 'Confirmation' Slated By Mainstream - Stig Agermose [115]
   Belgium Sightings: Discussion Summaries & Comments - Jerry Cohen [146]
   Re: '_Have_ to Believe' Investigating - Mark Cashman [12]
   Re: Catalog of Levelland concentration, Nov 1957 - Mark Cashman [109]
   Re: CUFORG Conference '98 - Ian J. Darlington [17]
   Somewhere Out There, Vital Signs Await Nasa - Mark LeCuyer [180]
   RI Native and the Crop circles of Cache County - Joseeph Trainor [150]
   P-1947: Fort Itaipu, Brasil? - Ed Stewart [15]
   Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs - John Rimmer [60]
   P-1947: Levelland series - Herb Taylor [19]
   Re: P-1947: Levelland Series - Jerome Clark [8]
   Hynek's 'The Emerging Picture of the UFO Problem' - Moderator, UFO
   UpDates - Toronto [433]
   Ancient Astronaut Society? - Andy Denne - A.U.R.A. [9]
   P-1947: McDonald Paper - Jean van Gemert [9]
   UFO Roundup Appeal For Sighting Reports - John Hayes [48]
   Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs - Mark Cashman [143]
   Lake Ontario Lights - 07-29-98 - Jennifer Jarvis [20]
   P-1947: Hynek on The Leveland, Texas, Sightings - Fran Ridge [254]
   Re: Ancient Astronaut Society? - Blair Cummins [14]

  Jul 31:

   Re: Ancient Astronaut Society? - Andy Denne - A.U.R.A." [3]
   National Geographic's 'Return To Mars' - Mark LeCuyer [15]
   Filer's Files #30 - George Filer [364]
   Re: Re: Hynek's 'The Emerging Picture of the UFO - Jerry Cohen [10]
   Re: UFO*BC Updates - Sightings On The Radio - Bruce Maccabee [5]
   Re: P-1947: Fort Itaipu, Brasil? - Zuzu [7]
   Re: P-1947: Hynek on The Leveland, Texas, Sightings - Keith Woodard
   [16]
   Re: Catalog of Levelland concentration, Nov 1957 - Bruce Maccabee [3]
   Re: C-E: What To Do With Sturrock? - Bruce Maccabee [35]
   Re: P-1947 Catalog of Levelland concentration, Nov - Bruce Maccabee [7]
   Re: Belgium Sightings: Discussion Summaries & - Serge Salvaille [31]
   Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs - John Rimmer [48]
   Re: '_Have_ to Believe' Investigating - Tony Spurrier [10]





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 1

                Re: UFO*BC - UFO'S WARRANT STUDY - VANCOUVER

From: Bill Oliver <boliver@direct.ca>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 10:43:10 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 08:49:27 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO*BC - UFO'S WARRANT STUDY - VANCOUVER

Check out the Vancouver Island Photo mentioned in the big press
release! While you are there have a look at what we believe to be
equally impressive pics taken in Prince George BC. Tell us what
you think!

http://www.ufobc.org

Click on Kelsey Bay Photo

Click on Prince George Photos






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 1

                     Re: Friedman's Laws for 'Debunkers'

From: "Stanton T. Friedman" <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 16:40:28 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 09:07:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Friedman's Laws for 'Debunkers'


> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:44:10 -0400
> From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Friedman's Laws for 'Debunkers'
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> Regarding...
>
> >Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 22:48:23 -0300
> >From: Stanton T. Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Friedman's Laws for 'Debunkers'

> Stanton wrote:

> >As might be expected from PJK's 30 years of misrepresentation this
> >is a very inaccurate description of what I have said and how I say
> >it. In my longer college presentations I told the story of the CAUS
> >actions against the CIA and NSA and show every page of the 21 page
> >affidavit starting with very lightly censored to heavily censored,
> >leading to laughter. Far more dramatic than just showing a few
> >blacked out pages. Then I tell of the few very heavily censored CIA
> >UFO documents it took me 5 years to get, (3 out of 14) which the CIA
> >somehow didn't find and the NSA did. One page has 8 readable words.

> Stanton,

> There's no debate that some data which comes under the 'UFO'
> category has been withheld, however, clarification of the NSA
> document's contents and the NSA's submission was a welcome
> insight into some factors which we must take into account.

> The point was, if you arraign others as "demonstrating all 4 of
> Friedman's laws for Debunkers", notably, "What the public
> doesn't know, I am not going to tell them", it's a double-edged
> sword.

> No matter what you may, or may not, reveal to College audiences,
> when addressing a nationwide TV audience of _several million_,
> you stated on the question of a government 'cover-up', that this
> was "easy to prove" and cited as evidence:

> "A group of us went after the NSA. We found that they had over
> 150 UFO documents. They refused to release them to us, and to
> the Federal court Judge".

> Which was by no means a fair reflection of the true facts and
> served only to suggest these documents had never been released
> or further explained.

> Would you disagree?

Yes I disagree.

One cannot give lengthy explanations on TV.. What I said was
exactly true and was squeezed into a brief opportunity.

The NSA is and certainly was witholding information about UFOs
as was the CIA.. Remember that USAF keeps saying UFOs are not a
threat to National security. I gather that the CIA and NSA
disagree.

I have never said there isn't a very important national security
aspect to UFOs..

I have said that Klass is guilty of massive misrepresentation..
such as saying on a TV show here recently that all sightings can
be explained and claiming that a Confidential document somehow
establishes what isn't in TOP SECRET Documents..

Are you trying to suggest that the NSA has released enough of
each of those 156 documents so that we can make a judgement,
based on Klass' misrepresentation of them?

STF





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   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 1

                           Re: Sheffield Incident

From: David Clarke <dclarke14@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 13:15:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 08:48:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Sheffield Incident


For those following the twists and turns of the "Sheffield
Incident", Updates readers will shortly be able to access my
report on the incident which will be posted on:
www.sightings.com

This article was completed shortly after Helen Jackson MP for
Hillsborough asked questions about the case in Parliament. Since
that time my investigation has continued and an update to the
article will be posted in due course.

In the meantime, here are my responses to questions posed by Max
Burns: 1. Believing official sources.

Max claims I am naive for believing what "official" sources -
ie. the police, MoD etc - are telling me about this case.
Really? Well then what is the South Yorkshire Police Log if it
is not an "official source"? Max uses the Log throughout his
Sheffield Incident as a source of unquestioned reliability, so
using his own logic, why should be believe a word which that log
is telling us? The log was produced by the police, who by his
own statements are party to the cover-up. Could not the person
(a police sergeant, whose name I have) who passed the log to
UFOlogists in the first place have done so just to mislead
whoever got hold of it, therefore the log could be part of the
cover-up too? Oh no, I'm getting paranoid as well now....

But on a serious note, all my sources really exist and can be
independantly checked by anyone who wants to email me for their
phone numbers. We can't say the same about Max's "sources", one
of whom we are told is a drug taking New Age traveller who
sleeps in a horse-box.


2. MoD and UFO reports
Max claims the MoD must be lying because the Police Log does
have UFO sightings in it. So what? How do we know the police
passed those incidents onto the MoD? As the police never
regarded the incident as a UFO incident, why should they have
passed them onto the MoD? If the reports had been passed to
anyone, they would have been passed to the Home Office, not
necessarily to the MoD. My information is the police didn't pass
them onto anyone, therefore the MoD never received them in the
first place, Why does max see such significance in things which
are not significant....it all comes back to paranoia once again.

If Max feels the MoD have lied to Helen Jackson MP then let him
contact Helen Jackson directly; she can be contacted via the
House of Commons switchboard.

3. Radar Operators Tracking UFOs.
The fact remains that RAF Linton-upon-Ouse was closed on the
night of March 24, 1997. That is an indisputable fact which can
be independantly checked by anyone who cares to visit the base,
look at the logbook, and speak to the staff. Even when working,
the bases' radar has a very limited radius for training purposes
only. It could not be used for detecting UFOs over the Peak
District. Once again, all this information can be checked by
anyone who cares to do so.

Air defence radar on the night of March 24, 1997 was being operated from
RAF West Drayton.

4. The News of the World.
If Max has so little respect for the content of newspapers and
the ability of journalists, why did he go to the News of the
World to sell his story? Answer: because he knows they are the
only paper likely to swallow such a huge trout of a yarn. No
other national paper would touch it with a bargepole, except
perhaps the Sunday Sport, where it would be a fantastic
follow-up to the classic "B52 Bomber Found on the Moon" or
"Space Aliens Turned My Son into an Olive". Just imagine it
"Pilot shot down by UFO hitches ride from Mini-Bus while covered
in Aviation Fuel". What a prize exclusive that would be in the
Sport's hall of fame...

In the end even the News of the World failed to believe Max's
far-fetched tale. He's being paranoid once again if he really
thinks a News of the World Journalist would allow me to order
him not to run a story, They did not run the story because I
appraised them of the FACTS, that's all, plain and simple.

But then he has the gall to say I should feel sorry for him
losing the grubby =A31,500 he stood to make! You have to conjur
the image of Max visiting the newspaper and saying "I have this
fantastic evidence of man's first contact with aliens, but I'm
not telling you this just for the money guys, it's simply
because I really believe what the witnesses are telling me..."

You have got to admit the man has some cheek.

5. Emma Maidenhead's sighting of a Triangular UFO.
Despite what Max claims, I have never said that no one believed
they saw a UFO on March 24, 1997. But there is a whole world of
difference between belief and reality. Nowhere have I ever
claimed Emma was having "delusions" as Max puts it. I simply
believe she misidentified an aircraft or some other more
unconventional - but earthly - object as a UFO. We know that
roughly the same time as she saw the UFO there were squadrons of
low-flying RAF bombers skirting the Derbyshire Peaks at 250 foot
altitude, therefore it is reasonable to conclude she saw that
exercise or something connected with it.

That does not mean I'm calling her a liar, I accepted that she
believes what she says she saw. I'm not disputing that for one
minute.

But you have got to pose the obvious question: If a giant
triangular UFO was flying so low over Dronfield (which with
neighbouring Chesterfield has a population of something in the
order of 250,000 people), how is it that one person, and one
person alone, saw it? And why if she was so convinced the craft
was something not of this earth did she not drive immediately to
her local police station and log a formal report? She did not,
because her sighting does not appear in the police log.

Granted, plenty of people saw the low-flying jets over Dronfield
and surrounding areas, but not one other person reported this
massive triangle. And isn't it also a coincidence that Emma is a
friend of Max and a member of his "skywatching group"...of
course Max's views and beliefs have had no influence upon Emma's
interpretation of what she saw....not! 6. The Carol Vorderman
programme on the aircrash.

Yes Max I did tell you I acted as a consultant to the programme.
But "consultant" in my dictionary (Oxford English Edition) is:
"a person providing professional advice, etc for a fee". I
provided the BBC with newspaper cuttings and a list of names and
phone numbers, including Max Burns phone number, therefore I was
by definition acting as a consultant. As I said, I had no
control over what theory the programme makers decided to settle
upon, that was their choice. And in the end they settled on a
mundane explanation, which in this case is the right one. In
answer to Max's other questions:

Yes I am a skeptic, and proud of it. That is the first thing
about this case which Max has got right.

 I am not, and never will be a gullible believer, or someone who
is only interested in making =A31,500 out of the News of the World
like others I could mention.

My motives for investigating this case?

Simple. I want to get to the truth.

If Max can provide me with evidence to back up his claims that a
UFO was chased by the RAF and a fighter was shot down, leading
to loss of life, I would happily put every last bit of energy I
had in pursuing this case to its bitter end.

So far, Max has not produced one tiny piece of evidence to
suggest such an event took place.

In the meantime, I challenge him once again:

1. Name one witness who saw a UFO shoot down/"vanish" a Tornado
   on the night of March 24, 1997.

2. Name the base from which this Tornado took off.

3. Name the pilot and co-pilot of the Tornado jet.





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   Jul > Jul 1

                Re: Mag 1/4 -- Comments on Trindade Isl. 1/2

From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:24:12 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 09:02:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Mag 1/4 -- Comments on Trindade Isl. 1/2


>From: The Duke of Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter
Brookesmith]
>Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:53:23 -0400
>Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:53:47 -0400
>Subject: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4

>>From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net>
>>Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:48:21 -0400
>>Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:11:25 -0400
>>Subject: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 01

>>>From: Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith]
>>>Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 17:43:46 -0400
>>>Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 11:29:27 -0400
>>>Subject: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 01
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Greetings Peter & list members,

It is hoped the following regarding the Almirante Saldanha UFO
sighting off Trindade Island is in keeping with Bruce Maccabee's
sentiments regarding decreasing philosophical discussion and
rather, digging in and getting to the nitty-gritty within
various cases.

It's a little long, so I had to split it into two parts. The
second part has some important URLs. In responding to it, it may
be best to assemble it on the other end. You can access the Blue
Book Report easier that way.

Everything I've ever read concerning this case has suggested it
was a "no-win" for either side. However, there appears to be
enough supporting evidence which tends to suggest it should not
be simply dismissed by mere whim. The date I have associated with
the Trindade IGY case is January 16, 1958.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


JC: Peter, re a portion of the MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4 you
posted (for John Harney?):

>....snip....

>ETH enthusiasts are equally reluctant to write off the
>Trindade Isle photographs, despite the fact that they were
>taken by a man with a reputation as a trick photographer and
>the fact that the statements of the numerous other alleged
>witnesses to the sighting remain suspiciously unavailable.
>....snip....

JC: O.K., however, you've posted this MAGONIA Bulletin in its
entirety but you haven't made any comments on my response to your
posting of MAGONIA Bulletin #1. My post attempted to point out
some of the reasons "open-minded researchers" are reluctant to
write off the Trindade Isle photos.


>>....snip....

>>>TRINIDADE ISLAND

>>JC: Please forgive my interjection, I believe that island is
>>Trindade.
JC: It is possible the author of the MAGONIA article may not
have been thinking about the correct island. (Since he repeatedly
misspelled it this way.) But it is an easy mistake to make.

Please note, "MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 01" will be abbreviated to
"M".


M's author (?John Harney - editor) says:

>>>Well, what are the agreed facts of this case? I was astonished
>>>to discover, on re-examining the literature on this incident
>>>that some of the most basic and presumably easily
>>>ascertainable facts are very much in dispute. For example, how
>>>many witnesses were there? Well, it depends on whether you are
>>>a believer or a sceptic.

JC: To me, an even more important question might be; "Exactly
how many witnesses do we need on a  Brazilian Navy IGY survey
ship for this particular case to merit serious attention?"

Interestingly, we do know that the Brazilian Naval Ministry
finally did issue the following statement (even though they
couldn't confirm or deny an actual craft from the photographs):

 The Ministry has no motive to impede the release of
 photographs of the referred to object taken by _______ who was
 at Trindade Island at the invitation of the Navy, and in the
 presence of a large number of the crew of ALMIRANTE SALDANHA
 from whose deck the photographs were taken.

JC: A question that comes to mind is; "Would they say a lot of
people were present to see it without really checking it
through." Your guess is as good as mine. The reputation of the
Brazilian Naval Ministry was at stake.


Regarding the witness question, M's author says...

>>>Now we come to the really crazy bit. When we ask the obvious
>>>question: How many witnesses were there? ....snip....
>>>According to Coral Lorenzen: Rio de Janeiro's Ultima Hora on
>>>February 21 reported that at least a hundred individuals had
>>>witnessed the sighting of the object ...

JC: Until I personally see the actual article in question, and
supporting articles or reports in other papers, etc., this
researcher is willing to assume for the moment that Lorenzen's
"hundred witnesses " may deserve some scrutiny.


 However, M's author also stated and I commented...

>>>(7) The US Naval Attachi in Rio de
>>>Janeiro, evidently a dedicated sceptic, wrote the following
>>>facts in his report to Project Blue Book:

>>>The Assistant Naval Attachi ... had an opportunity to visit
>>>aboard [the Almirante Saldanha]. The commanding officer ...
>>>had not seen the object and was noncommittal. The executive
>>>officer also had not seen it but, arriving shortly thereafter,
>>>had formed the opinion that those on deck had seen it.

>>JC: and why would the executive officer do this unless the
people had?

JC: These statements appear to be accurate since they were
entered into the Project Blue Book report by, as M's author
states, an admitted "dedicated" skeptic, who collected the
statements personally. Unfortunately, this presents a problem as
we shall see in a few moments. (URL for the report is located at
the end of part 2 of this essay "Mag 1/4__Comments on Trindade
Isl.2")


>>>The captain reported
>>>that his secretary, a LCDR, had seen it but this officer when
>>>personally questioned avoided discussing the matter. (8)

JC: Again, in this instance, why would the captain say this? Why
would anyone put their own reputation in jeopardy on something
like this, unless they really knew this? Does this make sense to
anyone?


I had said:

>>JC: Well, say we ignore the newspaper (J.C. meaning "for the
>>moment") and focus on the US Naval "Attachi," the Captain and
his secretary.

>>The Captain says he (his secretary) saw it. If his secretary
>>didn't see it, all he (the secretary) had to say was "I didn't
>>see it." Would _you_ refuse to tell someone if you _didn't_ see
>>it? ....snip....

JC: Peter or anyone else again, any comments on this last
paragraph? I can't imagine why anyone would refuse to tell
someone if they didn't see it. Does it sound like the secretary
really didn't see it, or does it sound more likely as though he
was avoiding discussing the matter because he didn't want to
look like a fool under questioning, especially to a "dedicated
skeptic," who demonstrated his strong bias in comments he made
in the report he sent to Project Blue Book. Incidentally, some
of Dr. Condon's comments years later had a similar ring to them.


>>>Sceptics insist that there were no witnesses, despite
>>>assertions from believers that their testimonies were
>>>published in Brazilian newspapers.
>>>
JC: After what we've examined so far, are we really so sure
there weren't _any_ witnesses or is it just possible that there
were at least _some_ witnesses? I'll concede we still do not know
exactly how many by what we've discussed so far.


Then I asked, regarding the testimonies...

>>JC: So, were they published or not? Is there any record for
>>that date or didn't they keep microfilm accounts of the papers
>>there back then?

JC: Has anyone, skeptics, believers, whomever checked this out?
Obviously, it wouldn't be easy if one didn't live there.  Taking
a long shot, are there any people from Trindade Isle on this
mailing list that would like to comment here?

Sans response, one would either have to call Trindade's local
library, research an Email address, or purchase a ticket to
visit the island. Of course one would need to know for certain
there were existing microfilms of the papers before one could
even begin thinking about going. I can just hear what my wife
would have to say about a trip like that.  :-)  Obviously this
may well have been a stumbling block for most researchers
concerning further investigation of this case. We weren't all
NET conscious back then.

Interestingly, we do know the following from the Blue Book
report:

 "Federal Deputy Sergio Magalhaws sent a note to the Navy
 Ministry on 27 February protesting the Navy's failure to
 secure sworn statements of witness.

 'For the first time in flying saucer history, the phenomenon
 was attended by large numbers of persons belonging to a
 military force which give these latest photographs an official
 stamp. Threats to national security require official attention
 and action,' said the Deputy."

JC: Does anyone besides myself get the idea from that last
sentence the possibility higher officials may have put a clamp
on this whole thing even though the Assistant Naval Attachi
didn't think so.

 "In the middle of all the publicity, other 'flying saucer'
 sighting reports came out including a naval officer who saw a
 flying saucer a month before sighting from SALDANHA off the
 coast of Espirito Santo. CO and crew of ATA TRIDENTE said
 flying saucer several days before SALDANHA sighting but kept
 information secret."

JC: And are we to totally ignore this? I wonder if anyone ever
took statements from those crew members as well.

  Continued in "Mag 1/4__Comments on Trindade Isl.2"


Part 1 respectfully submitted by,
Jerry Cohen

 Author: Oberg/Cooper rebuttals
Website: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/
UFOmind: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/c/cohen/









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   Jul > Jul 1

                Re: Mag 1/4 -- Comments on Trindade Isl. 2/2

From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:23:20 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 09:03:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Mag 1/4 -- Comments on Trindade Isl. 2/2


>From: The Duke of Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter
Brookesmith]
>Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:53:23 -0400
>Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:53:47 -0400
>Subject: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4

>>From: " Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net>
>>Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:48:21 -0400
>>Fwd Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:11:25 -0400
>>Subject: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 01

>>>From: Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith]
>>>Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 17:43:46 -0400
>>>Fwd Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 11:29:27 -0400
>>>Subject: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 01
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Continued from: "Mag 1/4__Comments on Trindade Isl.1"


As in part 1, please note, "MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 01"
will be abbreviated to "M".

We also know the following from the Blue Book report:

5. Publicity. The press reports after the publication of the
photographs covered a great deal of newspaper space for about
a week, tending to prove or disprove the authenticity of
Baruna's photographs. DIARIO CARICCA reported that personnel
of SALDANHA were under rigid orders of silence.

JC:If this were true it wouldn't surprise me since all this
attention by news media had to be taking away from the normal
course of daily business of the people involved.

Everything we have said so far summates to the reason for my
stated belief...


>>It seems rather obvious to me that people did see it. Whether
>>they would admit it to the newspapers, that is another story,
>>especially when we realize who the people were.

>>....snip....At least some if not most of the possible
>>witnesses aboard were scientists. Would _you_ risk your career
>>as a scientist participating in world-wide IGY experiments to
>>say you saw this, even if you did? We know how scientists are:
>>if you don't have something solid or the numbers and data to
>>prove it, it doesn't exist. Who would know better than another
>>scientist?

JC:We see these same sentiments echoed time and time again in
various posts from UFO skeptics who are honestly attempting to
follow scientific principles. (i.e. if you can't prove it by
repeatable experiments, "it isn't.")  Any scientists who receive
government funding, reading these posts, care to comment? Be 100%
honest. If you saw it and had no other proof other than a
photograph(s), would you say this to the newspapers? Remember,
"be honest."


BTW, on another incredibly long shot, are there any witnesses
who were on the ship during the sighting who would like to make
a comment here? If any of these people are still alive and
reading this list, perhaps they may be of retirement age, not
have to worry about grants, etc. and might possibly want to set
the record straight.


I also pointed out that Dr. J. Allen Hynek's following comments,
made after approximately twenty years of study on the topic,
also support what I have said in this regard:

>>Hynek, J. Allen "The UFO Experience" Henry Regnery Company
>>1972, hardcover

>>Chapter 1
>>The Laughter of Science

>>p.9"the most coherent and articulate UFO reports come
>>from people who have not given much thought to the subject and
>>generally who are surprised and shocked by their experience."

>>p.9"some of the very best reports have come from
>>scientifically trained people..... These reports are usually
>>rarely published however, because the person usually requests
>>anonymity."


M's author says the following...

>>> If there really were many witnesses, then the photographs
>>>are hardly likely to be fakes. If there were no witnesses,
>>>it is difficult to see how people could be fooled by a
>>>photographer who purported to take pictures of something
>>>which nobody else noticed from the crowded deck of a ship.

JC:In light of the all the facts we've examined so far, it
seems to me, the incongruity M's author has just presented us
with is the exact reason this case _should not_ be summarily
dismissed without a further serious in-depth, accurate
investigation made concerning the specific points addressed by
this researcher. There appears to be enough evidence to conclude
there probably were witnesses.

Perhaps this is an inconclusive case to this point, so be it.
But I would hope reasonable people can understand why the case
shouldn't be simply written off as conclusive evidence the case
was hoaxed.


Additionally, regarding M's author's observations re Dr.
Menzel's comments on the photographs, and perhaps the bottom
line to all this...

>>>Dr Menzel
>>>originally thought the photographs showed an aircraft flying
>>>through cloud, but eventually claimed that they were faked.

JC:As I was trying to indicate in my 17 May post, "Where can we
find his proof that they were faked?" Did he do a photographic
analysis of the photos? Has anyone, and what did it show? We all
know "claiming" and "proving" are two different things. If it's
been proven, we're all entitled to see it.


Finally, regarding the Trindade photos, M's author said...

>>> And if you are a sceptic it depends whether you
>>>believe the photographs were faked or that they are genuine
>>>and that they portray an aircraft or some natural phenomenon.

JC:My reply to this:

1)      What aircraft of earthly origins back in the 1950's, or
        today, has the configuration displayed in the Trindade
        photographs?

2)      To what exact phenomenon is M's author referring?

3)      How was the supposed faking accomplished with, what
        appears to be, a high probability of witness
        confirmation?

Respectfully,
Jerry Cohen

 Author: Oberg/Cooper rebuttals
Website: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/
UFOmind: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/c/cohen/

P.S.    Full Blue Book report on the Brazilian Navy survey ship
Almirante Saldanha UFO sighting, off Trindade Island, as it
appears in Dr. Hynek's "UFO Report" can be found at:

http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/Trindade_Hynek.html
Dr. Hynek's comments preface and conclude the report

SOURCES OF INFORMATION: Look Magazine Special . FLYING SAUCERS .
pub. by Editors of United Press International and Cowles
Communications, Inc., Belleville, Lance . UPI Rio de Janeiro
"Ola o disco!" : also, Hynek, Allen J.: "The Hynek UFO Report" .
New York . Dell Publishing Co., Inc. 1977 . chapter 10 "The
Brazilian UFO Photos"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Interestingly, for those interested, there are two military
cases which happened approximately 2 1/2 months prior to
Trindade; Kirtland & Sebago. I verified their exact dates and
times with Jan Aldrich, Project 1947 and discovered they had
actually occurred closer in time to each other than I originally
thought.

- - KIRTLAND/SEBAGO DATES & TIMES - -
> Kirkland AFB, NM 10:45-11:04 pm MST 4 Nov
>
> Sebago 05:10-05:21 am 5 Nov

That places them about 5 hours apart.

Their summaries & newpaper articles can be found beginning at
http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/ocr.7a.html#Anchor
see 7a, 7b, 7c








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   Jul > Jul 1

                     Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 17:19:43 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 09:41:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study


>Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 01:50:44 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study

<snip>

>One of the comments that I found especially interesting came
>from Prof. Sturrock. He gave a short list of things that they
>considered "evidence," and among them was photographic and
>videotaped material! The only qualifier (if it could be
>considered that) was that he stated that modern analysis
>techniques allow them to make good determinations as to the
>authenticity of a given photo or tape. I found the fact that pix
>and vid's were included on his short list as encouraging as the
>panels findings.

During the brief interviews that he took part in, Sturrock also
indicated that we know much more about some natural phenomenon
that might be interpreted as "unknowns", and mentioned one of the
photographs they had examined as possibly being the result of
such discharges.  Has there been any comment from those who may
have presented the material to the panel?

>> But of course members of CSICOP and other debunker-types
>>will attack the panel and its conclusions strenuously, as usual.

>Yeah Jim, but at least this time they are argueing with Ph.D's
>and scientists. Those are the very guys they claim to defend and
>represent. It'll be like watching the Pope go to war with/
>against God!

Of course, scientists have been known to have severe
disagreements over their theories and general acceptance in the
scientific community (however, that's defined) may not come
easily.

The JSE Report is, IMHO, a good first step and one that should
have been taken a long time ago.  But we still have a long road
to travel.

Steve







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                     Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:41:53 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 09:46:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study

> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 06:34:42 -0400
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study

<snip>

> Terry,
>
> My bet is that they will not want to help us investigate. They
> will want to take over and if any answers are found they will
> take ALL the credit, act like we don't exist, and pretend they
> knew there was something to this all along. That's how "real
> science" works.

Absolutely! This was the secret of my success in my sales career.
The best way to convince someone of something is to make them
think that they thought of it.

You know, I doubt few people actually disbelieve in UFO's. It's
mostly cases of denial or the NIH (not-invented-here) syndrome. I
think Kuhn would apply nicely here.

Terry







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   Jul > Jul 1

                         Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4

From: John Rimmer [John Harney]  <johnr@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 00:06:21 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 09:53:53 -0400
Subject: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4


>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4
>Date: Tue, 30 Jun 98 08:18:41 PDT

With the compliments of P.L.A. Driftwood.

I pass on the following message from ex-Meteorological Office
Scientific Officer John Harney (NOT Senior Scientific Officer, as
the incompetent Rimmer reported):

>Here's my question to you, John Rimmer:  Is it your view,
>as editor of Magonia (which published the slanderous
>remarks above), that I am retailing "lies, fantasies, and
>pseudo-scientific gobbledygook"?  Do you believe that
>my views amount only to "absurd posturings"?  Is it your
>view that I am "intellectually dishonest"?

>I look forward to your response.

>Jerry Clark

I edit Magonia ETH Bulletin, not John Rimmer, and am solely
responsible for its contents.

I do *not* think that Jerome Clark is intellectually dishonest or
that he indulges in absurd posturings. I merely think that he is
mistaken in giving creedence to the ETH.

I suspect that Clark agrees with me about the people who retail
lies, fantasies and pseudo-scientific gobbledygook, and knows who
they are. Of course, I did not wish to mention their names as I
wish to avoid the unwelcome and expensive attentions of m'learned
friends.

--
John Harney, Editor of Magonia ETH Bulletin.






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                     Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:35:59 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 09:45:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study

> From: Nick Humphries <nick@the-den.clara.net>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study
> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 98 11:19:33 BST

<snip>

> (For the record, my opinion on this whole phenomenon is that if
> non-human involvement is found, then the ETH is the more likely
> explaination (as opposed to alternative dimensions, time
> travellers, etc). However, IMHO there's no evidence to support
> it, and until then, I could probably be counted as a PSH-er)

I don't understand all this disagreement.  From what I have
observed, there is enough to go around so that ETH, PSH, and
those Bob Shell subterranian demons, may *all* be real.

I am encouraged by the JSE report.  It's just a baby step, but
one in the right direction.  I think many scientists were/are
closet Ufologists anyway.  I know that some septics are!  I
wouldn't mention any names, tho (Klass). <g>

Terry










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                       Re: Local Reaction to UFO Study

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 16:28:53 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 10:17:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Local Reaction to UFO Study

An interesting article on a local news web page about the UFO
Study may be found at:

http://www.accessatlanta.com/news/1998/06/30/ufo.html

That page is running an online poll.  At this posting, 84% of the
respondents professed that they believed in UFOs.

Another poll question:

"Should the gov't fund more research on UFOs?"

Answers at this posting:

1) Yes, the phenomenon can't be ignored any longer. (16%)

2) No, it's a waste of money. (13%)

3) The gov't knows all about UFOs, they just don't want us to know
   (69%).

Terry







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                    Re: Further images of Roswell Debris

From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 23:29:00 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 10:19:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Further images of Roswell Debris

I would advise all interested in this story to take a look at the web
site below:


Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> wrote:

Dear All,

This lunchtime I placed a further batch of images on my website:

http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/ftw-pics/index.htm

These were all taken from a 4x3 image of Ramey and Dubose "borrowed"
from Randle and Schmit<g>.

If I'm correct in what they show there is no way this was balloon
wreckage, I estimate one solid piece of debris in the picture is
aprox 2 feet long with a diameter of some 6-8 inches, this is solid
debris not foil or beams/sticks. I have asked JBJ if after seeing the
picture which I have emailed him he has any recollection, if you have
Bond please share it, I would love some extra info this debris it looks
technical.

Neil.

--
*        *         *         *         *         *         *         *
Neil Morris.       /101101101 Virtual Bumper Stickers Inc 10110101010\
Dept of Physics.   1                                                 1
Univ of Manchester 0                                                 0
Schuster Labs.     1  Computer Programmers DO IT with BITS of BYTES  1
Brunswick St.      0                                                 0
Manchester.        1                                                 1
UK.                \0101010110010110110010110101101011011110101011010/
G8KOQ

             E-mail: neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk

Roswell and Alien Autopsy Archive-  http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/
Dave Willetts Home Page-    http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/dave_willetts/
Mike Sterling Home Page-    http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/mike-s/
Tim Morgan Home Page   -    http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/tim-m/

*        *         *         *         *         *         *         *








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                         Re: Contact with SOHO Lost

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 09:38:17 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 09:38:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Contact with SOHO Lost

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:38:23 -0400
To: updates@globalserve.net
From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net>
Subject: Contact with SOHO Lost

List,

From: San Jose Mercury News

http://www.mercurycenter.com/breaking/docs/071860.htm

Breaking News
Posted at 5:54 a.m. PDT Tuesday, June 30, 1998

Contact lost with sun-watching satellite

Associated Press

WASHINGTON -- A $1 billion sun-observing satellite is missing
in action a million miles from Earth and scientists don't know
whether they can get it working again.

Art Poland, mission scientist for the Solar and Heliospheric
Observatory, said Monday that radio contact with the craft --
which has already exceeded its two-year operational lifetime --
dropped out suddenly last week while it was going through an
alignment procedure that involved firing control jets.

``We have had no communications with SOHO since last
Thursday morning,'' said Poland.

He said engineers have determined the craft is spinning and has
lost its alignment with the sun. Exactly how it is spinning and the
rate of spin is not clear, Poland said.

``We are not certain about what went wrong,'' said Poland. He
said engineers are trying to restore the SOHO signal and to stabilize
the craft, but added: ``There is a real fear that we won't get it back.''

European and American engineers are hoping that solar panels on
the craft will generate enough power for the satellite to receive and
act on stabilizing commands from the ground.

Its battery holds only a one-hour charge.

SOHO is a joint project of the National Aeronautics and Space
Administration and the European Space Agency. NASA provided
about $477 million of the total $1 billion cost of the craft, said Bill
Steigerwald, a spokesman at the Goddard Space Flight Center.

The satellite was designed for a two-year operational lifetime and
was launched on Dec. 2, 1995.

SOHO was placed in what is called the L-1 point, a position 1 million
miles from the Earth that is gravitational neutral. Objects placed at
such points tend to maintain the same Earth-sun position instead
of orbiting around the Earth as do most satellites.

Instruments on SOHO were able to take pictures of the sun in
several different spectra, or light wavelengths. The satellite also
could measure and analyze particles and magnetic fields generated
by the sun.

EOF

How convenient ;)

The attached photo is from the LASCO site.  I did a screen shot
as I closed the picture which tends to highlight prominent features
in the picture.  This is the sun on June 24, 1998.  The other
pictures from my cache have disappeared.

Sue Kovios







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                       Re: Video of 'UFOs' Around MIR

From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 20:48:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 10:26:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Video of 'UFOs' Around MIR


>Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 00:50:29 -0300
>From: Carlos Barboza <cbarboza@adinet.com.uy>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Video of 'UFOs' Around MIR

>Hello all,

>I also have a tape showing a cigar-shaped object that gets close
>to MIR, It was taken by astronauts through ship's window. In the
>same film (provided by a friend of mine) there is also another
>UFO approximating to a Telstar satellite as it was being
>repaired.

>I'm going to ask you no $25 for this, but instead I will upload
>it to somewhere in the internet once I manage to convert it to
>video file. I must contact a friend with a video-capture card
>first. I'm interested in Susan's tape but I rather wait until the
>author accepts uploading it. I don't think anybody should mix UFO
>research with making money from it.

>Estoy de acuerdo contigo Jhon Vellez

>Carlos Barboza (from Uruguay)
>cbarboza@adinet.com.uy

ROFL!

Hats off to Carlos.  How gallant.

Sue






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                  Re: Michigan and North Carolina Sightings

From: Stefan Duncan <duncan@tarheel.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 22:37:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 10:30:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Michigan and North Carolina Sightings


We appear to be having a similar flap in North Carolina as in
Michigan. On June 7th, we had our big boom and flash of light. I
need data for these sightings and would be glad to have any
assistance of setting up observations points around the High Rock
Lake Area for the ongoing triangular crafts, and orbs, and Saturn
shaped UFOs appearing in this area.

In April recorded on video what appears to be a triangular craft
moving slowly and doing a complete rollover and continuing. Two
weeks ago at High Rock Lake, one passed directly over head, did a
roll over and moved sideways down the river. Last week I saw a
amber light hovering over the treeline across the lake. Almost
daily, I am getting stories of sightings in this area that
happened from 15 to 20 years ago.

Three weeks ago the Charlotte Observer newspaper did a full page
spread of North Carolina marking the places and types of
sightings. They have a site for people to place their local
sightings on the net.


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Stefan Duncan
Director of XPI
Editor of AUFON
4055 Hwy. 152E #8
Rockwell, NC 28138
http://www.aufon.com
ICQ 11878618






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                     Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study

From: jared@valuserve.com (1 Jared Anderson)
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 17:27:11 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 10:24:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study


> From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 06:34:42 -0400
> Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:52:41 -0400
> Subject: Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study

> >Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 10:31:34 -0700 (PDT)
> >From: Keith Wyatt <gunbunnyxx@yahoo.com>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study
> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> >Well it is about time! I'm glad to see scientist finally decide to
> >help in solving this mystery and they are welcome to help investigate
> >these incidents!

> Terry,

> My bet is that they will not want to help us investigate. They
> will want to take over and if any answers are found they will
> take ALL the credit, act like we don't exist, and pretend they
> knew there was something to this all along. That's how "real
> science" works.

> Bob


Oh, don't be such a shitheel Bob. If you look at SSE's press
release on their web page you'll notice that underneath the panel
of scientists they list the panel of ufologists whose case
evidence they've been reviewing.

http://www.jse.com/ufo_reports/Sturrock/toc.html

Although not all the members of the ufologist panel possess
academic credentials, I would assume that SSE scientists would
wish to spend more of their time conferring with researchers that
do. As a general rule scientists like to confer with other
scientists in any scientific field, we should expect to see the
same professional discipline with UFOs.

In addition Jacques Vallee and Bruce Maccabee have written
articles in SSE's Journal of Scientific Exploration. If anything
UFO related ever get's published in any mainstream academic
scientific journals there will HAVE to be references and
citations to certain ufologists. I can't imagine carreer
reesarchers will all just be forgotten.



Jared.






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                           Re: Meteorite in Russia

From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 21:20:48 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 10:28:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Meteorite in Russia


>From: Masinaigan@aol.com
>Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 08:04:08 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Fwd: meteorite in Russia

>Dear List:

>     Please read the email from Jackie Jerrigan below.
>Apparently a most unusual meteor crashed in
>Turkmenistan in central Asia on June 20, 1998.

>                                             Joe Trainor

>Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 18:22:17 -0400
>From: jackiej <jackiej@usit.net>
>To: Masinaigan@aol.com
>Subject: meteorite in Russia

>This is from CNN interactive for Sunday, June 28.  Have you any other
>information about this meteorite?  I was unable to find any other post
>about it.  Thanks for your fine Web site.  Jackie Jernigan

You could try e-mailing to the address below.  This is the Embassy in UK.

mturkmen@clara.net

Sue







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                        Re: 'Eliptical' Crop Circles

From: RobIrving@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 22:44:56 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 10:36:08 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Eliptical' Crop Circles

> From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Eliptical' Crop Circles
> Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 20:01:45 PDT

Leanne,

I read Filer's comments with interest, but wondered about some of
the (non-) specifics...

>  Editors note:  Recent sampling of the crop formation and soil
>  samples indicate high Electro magnetic and microwave effects
>  have occurred within these fields.

Do you know specifically what this is in reference to?

>  One farmer in England who hired guards to watch his fields to
>  prevent hoaxers from hurting his crops.  While under guard, the
>  crop formations developed in 30 seconds to a maximum of five
>  minutes."

Do you know specifically where this is said to have happened?

Rob






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                          UFO News International 38

From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl>
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 01:15:57 +0200 (MET DST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 10:14:26 -0400
Subject: UFO News International 38


  __    _    _____    ______         ___________________________
  ||    |   ||       //     \               ___           ____
  ||    |   ||       ||     |        |\  | |    \      / /
  ||    |   ||___    ||     |        | \ | |___  \ /\ /  |___
  ||    |   ||       ||     |        |  \| |___   \__/       |
   \____/   ||       ||_____/       ___________   __________/
             _______________________________________
            /_\                                   /_\
               \   |I|n|t|e|r|n|a|t|i|o|n|a|l|   /
                \  ___________________________  /
                 \____________/\______________ /


=FF                          - 38 -

*    Scientists conclude UFO Evidence Worthy of Study
     -   Data do not prove Alien Visitation

*    Contributors Comment On 'Sturrock' Review
     -   First official investigation since 1968

*    UFO Researcher compiles website with Russian Cases
     -   Needs help

*    Child relates Contact Experience
     -   'Tell me I'm not crazy'

*    Has Chupacabra arrived in Texas?

*    Website Shows Off Formerly Sensitive Sights
     -   Area 51 missing

     __________________________________________________

                - UFO News International 38 -


//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

For direct subscriptions, send your e-mail address to:
                        hvdp@worldonline.nl

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////



************************************************************
Scientists conclude UFO Evidence Worthy of Study
************************************************************

- Data do not prove Alien Visitation

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net

STANFORD UNIVERSITY PRESS RELEASE

Stanford, CA, June 29, 1998 ----

In the first independent review of UFO phenomena
since 1970, a panel of scientists has concluded
that some sightings are accompanied by physical
evidence that deserves scientific study. But the
panel was not convinced that any of this evidence
points to a violation of known natural laws or the
involvement of an extraterrestrial intelligence.

The review was organized and directed by Peter Sturrock,
professor of applied physics at Stanford University,
and supported administratively by the Society for
Scientific Exploration, which provides a forum for
research into unexplained phenomena. The international
review panel of nine physical scientists responded
to presentations by eight investigators of UFO reports,
who were asked to present their strongest data.
Von R. Eshleman, professor emeritus of electrical
engineering at Stanford, co-chaired the panel.

Although UFO reports date back 50 years, the information
gathered does not prove that either unknown physical
processes or alien technologies are implicated.
But it does include a sufficient number of intriguing
and inexplicable observations, the panel concluded.
"It may be valuable to carefully evaluate UFO reports
to extract information about unusual phenomena
currently unknown to science." To be credible to
the scientific community "such evaluations must
take place with a spirit of objectivity and a willingness
to evaluate rival hypotheses" that has so far been
lacking, it added.

This conclusion differs from that reached by Dr.
Edward U. Condon, director of the Colorado Project,
in his 1968 UFO report. He concluded that "further
extensive study of UFOs probably cannot be justified
in the expectation that science will be advanced
thereby." It is very similar, however, to the conclusion
reached by the American Institute of Aeronautics
and Astronautics' Kuettner Report issued two years
later, which advocated "a continuing, moderate-level
[research] effort with emphasis on improved data
collection by objective means and on high-quality
scientific analysis."

In the current study, the scientific panel focused
on incidents involving some form of physical evidence,
including photographic evidence, radar evidence,
vehicle interference, interference with aircraft
equipment, apparent gravitational or inertial effects,
ground traces, injuries to vegetation, physiological
effects on witnesses, and debris. Of particular
concern are reports that UFO encounters may be hazardous
to people's health. Some witnesses have reportedly
suffered radiation-type injuries. These reports
led the panel to draw the attention of the medical
community to the possible health risks involved.


The scientists found that some of the reported incidents
may have been caused by rare natural phenomena,
such as electrical activity high above thunderstorms
or radar ducting (the trapping and conducting of
radar waves by atmospheric channels). However,
the panel found that some of the phenomena related
to UFOs are not easy to explain in this fashion.


Further analysis of the evidence presented to the
panel is unlikely to shed added light on the causes
underlying the reports, the scientists said. Most
current UFO investigations lack the level of rigor
required by the scientific community, despite the
initiative and dedication of the investigators
involved. But new data, scientifically acquired
and analyzed, could yield useful information and
advance our understanding of the UFO problem, the
panel said.

The reviewers also made the following observations:

 1.The UFO problem is not a simple one, and it is
unlikely that there is any simple, universal answer.

 2.Whenever there are unexplained observations,
there is the possibility that scientists will learn
something new by studying them.

 3.Studies should concentrate on cases that include
as much independent physical evidence as possible.

 4.Continuing contact between the UFO community
and physical scientists could be productive.

 5.Institutional support for research in this area
is desirable.

The review panel consisted of Von Eshleman; Thomas
Holzer, High Altitude Observatory in Boulder, Colo.;
Randy Jokipii, professor of planetary science, University
of Arizona, Tucson; Francois Louange, managing director
of Fleximage, Paris, France; H. J. Melosh, professor
of planetary science, University of Arizona, Tucson;
James J. Papike, professor of earth and planetary
sciences, University of New Mexico, Albuquerque;
Guenther Reitz, German Aerospace Center, Institute
for Aerospace Medicine, Cologne, Germany; Charles
Tolbert, professor of astronomy, University of Virginia,
Charlottesville; and Bernard Veyret, Bioelectromagnetics
Laboratory, University of Bordeaux, France. Eshleman
and Holzer served as co-chairs of the panel.
The UFO investigators who presented evidence were
Richard Haines, Los Altos, Calif.; Illobrand von
Ludwiger, Germany; Mark Rodeghier, Center for UFO
Studies, Chicago; John Schuessler, Houston; Erling
Strand, Ostfold College, Skjeberg, Norway; Michael
Swords, professor of natural science, Western Michigan
University, Kalamazoo; Jacques Vallee, San Francisco;
and Jean-Jacques Velasco, CNES, Toulouse, France.

The study was initiated by Laurance S. Rockefeller
and supported financially by the LSR Fund.


Complete Report and Supporting Documents On Line:
http://www.jse.com/PR_UFO_98.html

The Journal of Scientific Exploration is the quarterly
peer-reviewed research journal of the Society for
Scientific Exploration, an interdisciplinary organization
of scholars formed to support unbiased investigation
of claimed anomalous phenomena.

STANFORD CONTACT:

David Salisbury, Science Writer, Stanford University
News Service, phone: 650-725-1944
SOCIETY FOR SCIENTIFIC EXPLORATION CONTACT:
Marsha Sims, Executive Editor, Journal of Scientific
Exploration, phone: 650-593-8581, fax: 650-595-4466

FOR COMMENT CONTACT:
Prof. Peter Sturrock, workshop director, phone:
650-723-1438
Prof. Von R. Eshleman, panel co-chair, phone: 650-723-3531

Dr. Thomas Holzer, panel co-chair, phone: 303-397-1567



************************************************************
Contributors Comment On 'Sturrock' Review
************************************************************

- First official investigation since 1968

Via Stig Agermose

>From the San Jose Mercury News

Science panel says it's worth evaluating UFO reports

BY MICHELLE LEVANDER
Mercury News Staff Writer

For more than 50 years, UFO investigators have scoured
the skies for signs of alien life -- completely
snubbed by the scientific community as cranks.

But today, in the first independent scientific review
of UFO evidence in nearly 30 years, scientists gave
a faint nod in their direction by concluding that
it might be worthwhile to evaluate UFO reports,
marking a major and important shift in the eyes
of some UFO investigators.

"What we need are more scientists looking at this
area if we are going to get answers," said Peter
Sturrock, the Stanford University physicist who
convened the international panel of "skeptical"
scientists. Sturrock assembled the group after being
approached by New York philanthropist Laurance S.
Rockefeller, the grandson of John D. Rockefeller
and someone who reportedly has a longstanding interest
in UFOs and psychic phenomena.

Sturrock, whose Society for Scientific Exploration
promotes the examination of ideas outside the scientific
mainstream, hopes thepanel's review of UFO reports,
to be published today in the alternative Journal
of Scientific Exploration, spurs more solid research
in the arena.

To be sure, after a rare meeting between scientists
and UFO investigators, the scientific panel remained
skeptical. Nevertheless, they said the scientific
community's refusal to even entertain the analysis
of such information has been counterproductive.

"The history of Earth science includes several examples
of the final acceptance of phenomena originally
dismissed as folk tales," such as meteorites and
sprites, the report says. "It may therefore be valuable
to carefully evaluate UFO reports to extract information
about unusual phenomena currently unknown to science."

One UFO investigator was pleased with the findings.

Openness, evidence

Mark Rodeghier, of the Center for UFO Study in Chicago,
interprets the panel's greater openness as an important
step to bring the world of science -- which demands
empirical evidence -- closer to that of UFO observers,
some of whom believe they now know what aliens do
during human abductions.

Taking a break from the national Mutual UFO Network
conference, Rodeghier said, "It would be extremely
important for us to know if aliens are visiting
the Earth surreptitiously. I didn't expect in five
days that they would change their mind completely.
I think it's sufficient that they say the subject
deserves study."

For its review, the panel examined evidence such
as a 1981 photograph of "a silvery oval-shaped object
set against the blue sky," taken in British Columbia
-- the photographer swears it was not a trick photo
of a frisbee -- and a 1965 report by two French
submarine crews in Martinique of "a large luminous
object that arrived slowly and silently from the
west, flew to the south and vanished like a rapidly
extinguished light bulb."

The last time scientists took a serious look at
UFOs was in 1968, when Dr. Edward U. Condon, director
of the Colorado Project, undertook a two-year study
sponsored by the Central Intelligence Agency and
the U.S. Air Force. His dismissive conclusion: "Nothing
has come of the study of UFOs in the past 21 years
and "further extensive study of UFOs probably cannot
be justified"

Already some of this panel's scientists are steeling
themselves for ridicule from peers.

"I haven't gone around and advertised I've done
this. I thought I'd wait until our report came out
and then let them take their jabs then," said Thomas
Holzer, senior scientist at the National Center
for Atmospheric Research.

Still, he adds, he shares the panel's view that
more openness is needed.

Natural phenomena

Some UFO reports, the scientists concluded, could
be explained by rare natural events such as sprites,
or what appear to be huge sheets of light moving
upward from cloud decks caused by electrical activity
high above thunderclouds.

Unusual radar patterns that UFO investigators interpret
as flight patterns of alien craft are likely radar
echoes caused by refraction in the atmosphere, said
panel member and Stanford professor Von Eshleman,
who studies the structure of the atmosphere through
experiments on U.S. space missions.

And, the scientists said, some in their community
may be more interested in UFOs than they are willing
to admit.

Sturrock said his own surveys of astronomers show
that many privately admit to interest in UFOs. Asked
for his own views, Sturrock was coy.
"I don't believe in UFOs, but they may exist whether
I believe in them or not," he said. "That's saying
I don't have an opinion I wish to share."

When pressed, panel member Eshleman said he thinks
it would be surprising if there weren't life forms
on other planets. Asked about the likelihood of
complex alien societies, he said, "It's less probable,
but there's no reason to limit it anywhere."

Gregory Benford, a solar physicist at the University
of California-Irvine who has reviewed the UFO report,
said that when Condon, now deceased, wrote his initial
1968 findings on UFO evidence, he wrote the conclusion
first. Even though a scientific panel urged more
open-mindedness two years later, it didn't carry
much weight.

"He had an automatic aversion to the cranks who
had surrounded the UFO phenomenon", Benford said.
In '68, he just wanted to squash this like a bug.
So he said you won't learn anything if you study
this any further.


Looking in new places

"I think that's unwarranted. If you don't look in
new places,
you won't see new things."

Still, he added, while many astronomers believe
that life exists elsewhere in the galaxy, that's
a far cry from believing that UFOs are passing over
your neighborhood.
"Even if some intelligent being was visiting us
from a distant star, why would they fly around and
never make any contact?" hesaid. "If they are hostile,
why not do the obvious and wipe us out? It would
be dead easy to get in touch with us.

"Just because you are open-minded doesn't mean your
brains have fallen out."

1997 - 1998 Mercury Center.


************************************************************
UFO Researcher compiles website with Russian Cases
************************************************************

- Needs help

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)

Forwarded from "alt.ufo.reports".

From: Vladimir Gerasimov <vladg@ix.netcom.com>

As the communist-regime fell in the late 80's, a
great deal of the Russian UFO-files has been given
light (along with the rest of the Soviet allies
files). We now been told that the entire Soviet
armed forces, a total of 15 million people over
ten years (1979-1989), was involved in a UFO study
that turned up forty major incidents, including
one that prompted fears of starting an accidental
nuclear war. As a result of the study hundreds of
UFOs were recorded and some were photographed. Some
of the reports and some of the photos are clearly
faked. But in other cases there were multiple witnesses...


Unfortunately, until late 80-s, the UFO subject
was forbidden to discuss in our country. Any talks
on this matter might get you in trouble. As local
residents say, they have been noticing strange flying
objects for a long time. Those objects were shaped
as spheres, black "boats", domes, plates and so
on. Also, there have been weird places, where people
felt like being observed or were afraid of presence
of something odd. When the ban of ufological information
was removed, the explorers attention was drawn to
abnormal events near Mobelka village. The results
of the first expeditions (Perm's Bachurin's group,
Muhortov's group) were a sensation. In 1989, this
information got out to the Mass Media. Since then,
the members of our group have been studying this
place.

If anyone has any kind of information or links to
web sites about Russian Sightings please email me
at:

dmitryg@mailcity.com

I'm currently working on a big web site which will
include a huge library of Russian Sightings including
the now famous Russian UFO Crash in Tunguska and
other sites..... yes there were UFO Crashes in Russian
..... Roswell Incident was not the only one UFO
Crash in History....there were many more.... " The
Truth is There...."
 Vlad G.


************************************************************
Child relates Contact Experience
************************************************************

- 'Tell me I'm not crazy'

Posted by : <UFOLAWYER1@aol.com>

Dear CAUS Subscribers:

This week's PCE is from wjbert@yahoo.com (wj vandiepen):

"I had an experience a few years ago. I can't remember
if it was '91 or '92, but I do remember it was winter,
around January, and it was sometime between 8:00
and 9:00 p.m. I was either 10 or 11 but remember
it as if it happened yesterday. I was in the bathroom
looking out the window when I saw what I thought
at first was the moon. I did not have my glasses
on, and I thought "wow, the moon is pretty low tonight."
Then I realized that if the moon was that low it
would be blocked out by trees on the other side
of highway #2 in Delaware, Ontario. My friends think

I'm insane, my family I think, believes me. I ran
to get my glasses, ran back and saw something which
I will never forget, and something which I have
yet to explain. It could not have been from this
Earth. It was no longer than a car, no higher than
10 feet over highway #2 and Victoria Street. It
was about 5 ft high, and glowed a magnificent yellow.

It also had what I would describe as wings, but
too small for that purpose. They were more, maybe,
like the outer disk (although it wasn't a 'flying
saucer', it was almost perfectly round, a sphere),
and these wings moved in a wave motion, the wave
coming from the 'cockpit' and out to the ends, one
wing one step behind the other. I don't know how
long I stared at it, but finally I started screaming
for my sister to come and see it. She would not
answer so, after a minute or two, I ran as fast
as I could into the living room, said "Shannon quick!
Come see this!" and with that I turned and ran back
into the bathroom. In the 2-3 seconds it took me
to do that the UFO flew away. It could not have
been the moon because it still would have been visible.
The weird thing is the highway is usually pretty
busy, but there were no cars whatsoever. No noise
except for our tv, which was very faint from the
bathroom. I would like this published and for anyone
who has seen this craft to <A HREF=3D"MAILTO:wjbert@yahoo.com"e-mail
me</A> and tell me I'm not crazy.
I have never had another experience that I know
of, but since that day I have been a firm believer."

Share your personal contact experiences with CAUS.
We will keep your name confidential if so desired.
Have a fantastic Friday and of CAUS...watch the
skies!!!

Peter A. Gersten Executive Director

Be sure to visit the CAUS web site at http://caus.org
To join this mailing list, go to http://caus.org/feedback.htm

To be REMOVED from this mailing list, go to... http://caus.org/remove/


************************************************************
Has Chupacabra arrived in Texas?
************************************************************

From: mario <mario@farshore.force9.co.uk>

Source: Midland Reporter-Telegraph Date: May 29
1998
Header: Has legendary Chupacabra made its way to
West Texas?

A recent report of sheep taken from a Midland County
ranch makes me wonder if the ever-popular Chupacabra
has made its way to West Texas. For some of you
who are unfamiliar with the legendary Chupacabra
(pronounced chew-pah-khab-rah), it's a scaled, winged
and fanged alien/beast that reportedly sucks the
blood out of livestock.

Its name translated in English means "the goat sucker."
Its origin has been traced to South American farmers,
who blame the creature for sabotaging their livestock.
The lore made its way to Puerto Rico, Florida and
even the Rio Grande Valley.
I figured it'd only be a matter of time before this
nuisance followed me to Midland.

When I was in South Texas, the Chupacabra would
make his way into the police reports at least once
a month. The scenario always involved a rural farmer
who'd call authorities after finding dead animals
on his property - all of which sustained two puncture
wounds to the neck.

Then, the complainant would come to our newspaper
with Polaroid pictures of his decaying animals.
My assignment would come soon after: I'd have to
ask a serious lawman to explain how the alien killed
an entire herd of cows and if charges were to be
filed. I could just see the docket: Case No. 0001,
the People vs. Goat sucker; charges: criminal mischief,
cruelty to animals and unlawful flight to avoid
prosecution.

Instead of making him laugh, the officer would throw
me out of his office, telling me that I wasted his
time with such absurd tales. Here in the basin,
the closest thing I've seen to the goat sucker is
a news reporter who did a live shot from a pet cemetery

in west Odessa. At prime time, this person poked
at bloated animal carcasses with a branch , warning
citizens not to make other people's property a final
resting place for Barky or Fluffy.

However, I doubt the beast is lingering in this
neck of the woods (or desert for that matter). The
creature's not as dumb as we think he is. Obviously,
he likes to roam the tropical climate, but probably
made a detour to the southern United States to stir
up a little scandal - or get a prescription for
Viagra.

Or, El Nino's wrath could have scared the little
guy over here. The impenetrable haze wafting from
zillion-acre fires in Mexico could have forced Chupacabra
to seek refuge in Midland, where hemakes his home
near a prairie dog town or at Wadley-Barron Park.

Either way, he won't be here long. There's way too
little livestock for him to survive here. I'd imagine
that he could move to Hawaii or the Virgin Islands,
but maybe he hasn't acquired enough frequent flyer
miles to make that voyage.

If I could meet him, I'd chide him for eluding me
for appearances on the "X-Files," National Enquirer
and "Unsolved Mysteries." Heck, I even looked for
him at the Chupacabras Festival in Zapata, Texas,
but all I found there was a 25-foot papier mch replica.
At this point, I'd be happy if he could bring a
little vigor into my life again, but I'm not counting
on it. The smoky haze has probably chased him away
to greener pastures, where there probably lives
more goats fearing his arrival.


************************************************************
Website Shows Off Formerly Sensitive Sights
************************************************************

From: Mark LeCuyer <randydan@wavetech.net
From: Alien Astronomer http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583


By Alan Boyle, MSNBC

A free Internet archive of aerial images includes
hard-to-get photographs of U.S. spy installations,
intelligence experts say. On Wednesday, they were
hard to get on the Web as well: Due to high traffic,
lots of users found it difficult to connect with
the site.

The Microsoft (Nasdaq:MSFT) TerraServer project,
offering almost 180 million overhead images taken
from airplanes and satellites, was formally unveiled
Wednesday at a computer trade event for governmental
agencies in Washington.

But the Web site was active even before its official
debut, and John Pike of the Federation of American
Scientists cruised around the site looking for overhead
pictures of sensitive areas. Aerial intelligence
imagery is one of Pike's specialties, and he was
amazed at what he found.


He said there were aerial photos of Raven Rock,
Md., the Pentagon bunker north of the Camp David
presidential retreat; and Mount Weather, Va., the
underground complex operated by the Federal Emergency
Management Agency. Those two facilities are thought
to be designed to house government leaders in the
event of an emergency.

Another photographic subject was Camp Perry, Va.,
which houses a training complex for the CIA's Directorate
of Operations.

"I was able to find each of those in about 10 minutes
or so," he said. Pike said the photos are publicly
accessible by other means - after all, they originally
came from the U.S. Geological Survey. But in the
past, the red tape was a formidable hurdle for image-hunters.
"You're putting in one place the one-stop accessto
a large chunk of what's available instead of having
to go through all these channels," said Jeffrey
Richelson, author of "The U.S. Intelligence Community."

- Area 51 missing
NBC producer Robert Windrem, an expert on U.S. intelligence,
said the database also includes photos of sensitive
communications facilities near Sugar Grove, W.Va.;
Remington, Va.; and Warren Grove, N.J. Images of
Nevada's Area 51, the focus of UFO lore, are not
included in the database ... yet. The current database
covers an estimated 45 percent of the contiguous
United States plus a smattering of areas around
the rest of the world. But the partners behind TerraServer
say more images will be added to the database, with
the entire United States likely to be covered next
year.

The partners behind TerraServer say they came under
no government pressure to block out the images,
which come from a USGS aerial survey as well as
Russian satellite photos.

For the rest of the article visit:
http://www.developer.com/news/stories/062698_terraserver.html


**************************************************************
June 22, 1998
**************************************************************
You can use UFO News International articles


. Make a selection from this issue for your web site.

. Redistribute articles in your owns newsletter or Bulletin Board
System.

Conditions:

. Please give credit to UFO News International and, if relevant,
to the original source.


**************************************************************
Editor's notes:

UFO News International welcomes:
. reports, experiences, analyses and commentaries
Anonimity will be provided if needed.

All contributions to this newsletter must be in English. Grammar
and spelling need not be perfect.

In case of a change in your e-mail address, please notify me in
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**************************************************************

Editor:             Henny van der Pluijm
Correspondents:     Barry Chamish (Israel)
                    Mike Stahl (Australia)


UFOIC, http://www.ufoic.com, hosts:

Henny van der Pluijm's UFO FAQ: http://www.ufoic.com/faq
and the UNI archive:            http://www.ufoic.com/faq/ufopals

Personal website:   http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp
E-mail:             hvdp@worldonline.nl

Direct subscribers:                  423
Redistributors:

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(150), UFO Online BBS PDX Portland Oregon USA (75), UFOR (Over
10,000), UFO UpDates Toronto (1,000).

Estimated readership: 11,000
______________________________________________________________

(C) Henny van der Pluijm, 1998.
______________________________________________________________
=FF
            __________________________________________
           /    Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes    \
                      Henny van der Pluijm
                      hvdp@worldonline.nl

                       Technology Pages
                http://home.worldonline.nl/~hvdp
             \______________________________________/





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 1

                         Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4

From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 21:47:36 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 10:43:25 -0400
Subject: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4


>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4
>Date: Tue, 30 Jun 98 08:48:41 PDT

>> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 21:25:46 -0400
>> From: The Duke of Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com>
>> Subject: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4
>> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

<great snip>

>> It's not mentioned in the post to which I'm responding, but I
>> have it on good authority that someone, somewhere is working
>> even now on shredding Michael Swords' notions of exobiology into
>> teeny weeny bits, and that the results will be published
>> sometime this year.

>Great. 'Bout time. And I don't doubt for a second, having seen
>others make the attempt, that Swords will defend himself quite
>effectively, thank you.

>Cheers,

>Jerry Clark

Duke, Jerry, List:

My three cents on this particular topic.

I happened to be present at the 1991 Chicago MUFON Symposium
when, to the best of my knowledge, Swords gave one of the first
public presentations of his thinking about exobiology, in
particular, why aliens might more or less resemble us, at least
in basic terms (body trunk, number of limbs, placement of eyes,
ears, mouth, nose, and other sensory organs, etc.). As far as it
went, I think it's quite reasonable (and well reasoned). For
those who haven't seen Swords's articles, to which Clark
constantly refers, its basic premise (to ruthlessly summarize
same) is that only certain body forms (resembling ours) will
achieve space travel, and therefore, those aliens we are most
likely to be visited by will resemble us in rough form.

An example: while it's reasonable to postulate that somewhere an
intelligent seafaring species with eight tentacles has evolved,
that species won't likely go on to develop spacefaring
technology because it's extremely difficult to smelt iron
underwater. And so on.

In abstract principle, Sword's thinking is perfectly
permissible, as far as it goes. But even Swords's theory
contains its own built-in limitations and complications. For
instance, regardless of whether or not one accepts every
component of the Drake equation, it still represents a sort of
fundamental starting point. By definition, Swords limits the
number of possible spacefaring aliens vis-a-vis Drake, which in
turn limits the possibility of contact. In other words, with
fewer civilizations qualifying as capable of interstellar
travel, the issue of how they could conceivably "stumble" across
the planet Earth, and repeatedly, at that  -- and just in our
lifetime -- is greatly increased.

In addition, Swords totally ignores other circumstances that
might be necessary for the development of life in the first
place, never mind spacefaring intelligence. There is a
considerable body of thought about the development of life on
this planet alone that treats with such issues as an internal
magnetic field, a placement of a satellite at such and such a
distance from the primary body (thus resulting in tides),
angular axis (which results in seasons, which seem to be a prime
evolutionary driver), and so on. (And this ignores local surface
planetary thinking a la Gould & others.) All of which again
drastically reduces the number of potentially intelligent
civilizations in the universe, regardless of whether one is
considering the numbers of Drake, Sagan or Swords. And it gets
more complicated from here. For instance, a reduction in the
numbers of potential intelligent civilizations greatly increases
their distances from us, greatly lowering the prospects of
contact.

To emphasize this last point, I recommend that everyone read the
article by Mike Davis ("Cosmic Dancers on History's Stage?),
which appeared in The Anomalist 5. As best we can determine,
this is the same Davis that just recently received a MacArthur
Foundation "genius" award, although we should point out that the
Amazing Randi received one of same as well.

Regardless, the thrust of Davis's article is that the history of
the planet Earth may well be (and arguably/demonstrably is)
unique, i.e., it possess a history nowhere else even remotely
repeated in the universe. The science is certainly just as good
as Sword's, which brings me to my last point.

I suspect that many of Clark's more vociferous and vocal critics
object not so much to the mere citation of Swords's writings,
then, as to a perceived attitude on Clark's part that simple
citation of same should resolve the issue once and for all -- as
if it were obvious. Needless to say, it doesn't -- and it isn't.

Would that life and science were so simple.

In the end, Swords's thoughts on the subject are just that. As
far as I'm concerned, every time that Swords is cited in favor
of the ETH, Davis should be cited in its disfavor. Now where are
we?

Dennis







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 1

                           Re: Meteorite in Russia

From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 22:43:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 10:33:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Meteorite in Russia


>From: Masinaigan@aol.com
>Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 08:04:08 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Fwd: meteorite in Russia

>     Please read the email from Jackie Jerrigan below.
>Apparently a most unusual meteor crashed in
>Turkmenistan in central Asia on June 20, 1998.

>     Significant UFO activity was recorded elsewhere
>in the world that day.

>     If any of our European colleagues saw a newspaper
>story on this event, I would greatly appreciate it if you
>would forward the item to UFO Roundup.  Thanks!

>                                             Joe Trainor

>Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 18:22:17 -0400
>From: jackiej <jackiej@usit.net>
>To: Masinaigan@aol.com
>Subject: meteorite in Russia

>This is from CNN interactive for Sunday, June 28.  Have you any other
>information about this meteorite?  I was unable to find any other post
>about it.


From: http://193.232.199.102:8084/press/index.html

Turkmen-PRESS
June 29, 1998
SENSATION

A Large Meteorite Fall Down On the Territory of Turkmenistan

Turkmen scientists informed that the meteorite that fall down on
the territory of Turkmenistan weighed about 300 kg. They started
studies of this unique for the country event. It happened on June
20, between 18.00 and 19.00 PM and was seen by several people
from the daikhan unity "Daryalik", Kune-Urgench etrap of
Dashkhovuz velayat. It made a hole of 4 meters deep and 6 meters
in diameter where it fall. It had a conic form and was refereed
to a iron and stone type.

Its sizes were 90x60 cm. There were found lots of its small
pieces in the area where it fall. At present the meteorite was
brought to Ashgabat for studies.

According to scientists that was the first large meteorite that
fall out the country's territory. Until now there were known 4
cases of finding meteorites and their weights were less than 6 kg
though the scientists stated that the relief of some areas of
Turkmenistan such as Central Karakum and Karabogaz hole-type
structures' looked like it was reliated to the fall of some
big-size meteorites in pre-historic times.

Stating the unique character of the event the scientists stressed
that the meteorite did not burn out in the atmosphere as there
were witnesses of the fall. Often meteorites fall down to oceans,
seas or deserts. Scientists plan to organize investigations of
the event. Now a scientific research expedition is being formed
to go to the site where the meteorite fell. It would define the
nature of the meteorite, the traektory of its flight to Earth,
its rotation orbit around the Sun, etc.

The meteorite will be registered in international scientific
organizations and definitely will attract the interest of foreign
scientists. This is a rare opportunity for scientists studying
the history of the planet Earth formation, its evoluation
process. Later the meteorite will become one of the most
interesting exponats at the National Museum of History of
Turkmenistan.

EOF


Also that night there were some celebrations going on but I'm not
sure if they had fireworks which could possibly account for strange
light activity.

Sue







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 1

                      Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

From: RobIrving@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 22:45:22 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 10:41:45 -0400
Subject: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

> To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'
> Date: Sun, 28 Jun 98 13:36:18 PDT

Jerry,

Despite your attempts to suggest otherwise, many of the points
I've made to Sean do not oppose the idea that "myopic
conventionalism" <my words> slows down progress. I don't see why
science would be different from any other human activity.

So we agree. But I simply don't see sufficient evidence that the
ETH is being obstructed in this way, as its proponents like to
claim.  You haven't offered any convincing examples, just
abstract association with earlier examples, none of which are
particularly relevant, imo.

Incidentally, the recent news regarding the scientific panel
study of UFOs bears out the point I've been making.  But even
this has been falsely portrayed in 'either/or' terms - viz, if
you are sceptical of the ETH, then you must be embarrassed by
it. This is sheer nonsense, premature bleatings.

>"Belief" is not the problem with the ETH's more rational
>proponents, of course.

Belief is a problem for everybody in this regard. That is the
whole point of this thread -- that it often doesn't matter how
'rational', or detached we like to think we are.  Your certainty
would concern me if I cared at all - there's little difference
between having an X- shaped gap and believing in X.

I'd be more convinced by your protestations of 'rationale' if
you at least acknowledged that ufology has a personality problem
rather than simply portraying ET believers as being beyond the
fringe of what is otherwise a serious study, thereby effectively
sweeping the issue under the carpet as if it doesn't exist. From
the p-o-v of someone who admittedly looks at ufology from the
outside, this is too subtle and intriguing a 'problem' to deal
with so dismissively.

<snip>

>The abuse hurled at SETI advocates, for
>example, parallels that at ETH advocates.

As far as I am concerned the main difference is that SETI is
asking questions - looking for evidence - rather than giving
answers with little evidence. But then, I rarely, if ever, hurl
abuse at anyone.

(Before you say it Dennis, "shabby and unbecoming" in not abuse)

<snort> Anyway Jerry...

Much as you enjoy portraying things in this way, not everyone
who differs in opinion to your own are ignorant and abusive
'debunkers'. Their arguments are *not necessarily* abusive. You
appear more at home reducing discussion to a personal level...
read on. It's easy to allow hypersensitive emotions cloud your
judgement. You appear to take criticism of what you believe
personally - so much so that you resort to Wingfieldesque ad
hominem attacks in its defence.  Apart from not really seeing
the point of it, I'm utterly unimpressed. Unless, that is, i
look at it in the context of thespianism.

>>I stated: Festinger liked nothing better than to use
>>'flying saucer' enthusiasts as an example of this.

>Festinger's ideas about cognitive dissonance have been
>pretty well challenged in the sociology of religion literature.

Really? Where? Can you provide specific references, and state on
which grounds his theory was challenged?  Even more pertinently,
why do you seem so ready to accept this. I'm genuinely intrigued.

> Wrong on all counts.

It sounds so authoritative when you say that, doesn't it? Even when
in fact it is you that is er, erring...

> To the best of my knowledge, Festinger wrote
>about only one flying-saucer group...

In this instance the best of your knowledge is paper to my
scissors.  You assume I was talking about 'When Prophesy Fails'
when I was not. As you say, most of this book concerned one
particular group. However, in Festinger's 'A Theory of Cognitive
Dissonance' which I strongly recommend you read, he states more
generally:

~ Similarly, if one person believes that flying saucers are
space ships from other planets and some other person voices the
opinion that flying saucers, as such, do not even exist, the
resulting dissonance in the cognition of the former may be
reduced if he can believe that the latter is a stupid, ignorant,
unfriendly, and bigoted individual. ~

Boy Jerry, as I copy this material I realise how terribly
relevant to the discussion it is. But I should put the statement
in its proper context. It comes from Chapter 8, entitled 'The
Role of Social Support' (p. 182).

In the preceding paragraph but one Festinger writes:

~ 3. Another way of reducing dissonance between one's own
opinion and the knowledge that someone else holds a different
opinion is to make the other person, in some manner, not
comparable to oneself. Such an allegation can take a number of
forms. One can attribute characteristics, experiences, or
motives to the other person or one can even reject him or
derogate him. ~

Reading your approach to 'discussion', Jerry, I have to admit
difficulty in understanding how these ideas have been
successfully challenged. Whether you agree with me on this or
not, I believe that it's valuable for opposing positions to
co-exist, along with anything in-between. What Festinger calls
tolerance for ambiguity.

To an extent what we are doing here is role-playing, and often
having to play characters that we are not, simply because they
are thrust upon us by others. Ufology as performance art... the
newly thunk-up UPAH. This is now my position, and I will attack,
discredit, and generally avoid those arguments by anyone who
says otherwise. So there.

In realty, you have no idea of my position on this matter - it
is enough for you to 'know' that I'm an evil debunker, because
that's how these things are to the person whose role you are
playing. Equally, in truth I suspect that you are not the
self-important prat your role apparently demands.

>I would love to be around, 25, 50, or 100 years from now, to
>witness the cottage industry in history, sociology, and philosophy
>of science literature on the subject of how scientists of this
>century managed to miss the most important phenomenon of
>their time. Sadly for the debunkers, truth always outs.

Sure, hopefully the latter is true, but it is rather
presumptuous to state that things will inevitably swing your way
-  I mean, by then you might have changed your mind again, and
so we would have to adjust ours accordingly, no?

> ...ex cathedra pronouncements Irving traffics in.

Yes, times are hard nowadays, as you know. Such is the abundance
of ex cathedra pronouncements we should turn our activities to
other, perhaps more lucrative employment.  How about dealing in
the issues raised?

>Is it any wonder that persons more open-minded about UFO cases
>and better read in UFO history than Irving remain intrigued?

No, even in my closed-minded illiteracy I too remain intrigued
by UFOs.

>I cite numerous examples in my UFO Encyclopedia.

As you keep telling us. If you send me a copy I promise to read
it. I have not seen your book on any UK bookshelves...  is it
mail-order only?

>Rob thinks he talks a good game, but all he can do is mutter...
>...whatever terrible thing Rob needs to believe we are at the
>given rhetorical moment... ...like Rob, would have us believe
>UFOs are a question for the social sciences... It is not as if,
>as Rob childishly argued... ...Reading arguments like Irving's,
>coming from somebody who knows little about our subject...

Don't forget to pass on that refutation of Festinger's theory,
Jerry. For it appears that you are a living, breathing
refutation of that refutation.

Or are you just playing to the audience. If so, "Bravo!".

>All I learn from the quote is that David Deutsch is phobic about UFOs,
>and not especially rational on the subject. Pardon me while I yawn.

Clearly you have not read Deutsch, and I'm left wondering if you
have even heard of him, yet you feel qualified to ridicule him
along with any who are remotely critical of UFO enthusiasts
(or... negatively swayed by the loudest dogmatists?).

If I'm wrong, which is of course possible, though highly
unlikely, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts about
Deutsch's ideas. They could have interesting implications for
ufology, in my opinion.

One is reminded of Orwell, who said of sentences and sentiments
like Deutsch's, they give "an appearance of solidity to pure
wind."

Animal Farm? If so, how very appropriate. If we ever get to do
Animal Farm I have a feeling who will want to play Napoleon.

Add my belated but genuine congrats to the others, btw...I was
highly impressed by your award, and pleased for you.

Rob






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                         Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4

From: SGBList2@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 00:12:37 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 11:31:11 -0400
Subject: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4


>  Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:53:23 -0400
>  From: The Duke of Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith]
>  Subject: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4
>  To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>  ------------------------------------------------------------

>  MAGONIA ETH BULLETIN

>  No. 4, June 1998

>  Editor: JOHN HARNEY

>  ------------------------------------------------------------

Sophistry, but damn fine sophistry.

SB






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                     Pathfinder Finds Two Worlds On Mars

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 05:16:35 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 11:21:40 -0400
Subject: Pathfinder Finds Two Worlds On Mars

AP via the Nando Times. URL:

http://www2.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/health/063098/health11_3143_noframes.
html

Stig


*******


Pathfinder finds two worlds on Mars: one warm and wet, one dry and rocky


Copyright =A91998 Nando.net
Copyright =A91998 The Associated Press


PASADENA, Calif. (June 30, 1998 10:57 a.m. EDT
http://www.nandotimes.com) -- During its months scrambling around Mars,
the rover Sojourner came across evidence of two vastly different worlds
on the Red Planet: one warm and wet, and one rocky and dry.

A year after NASA dropped the Pathfinder lander and its rover on the
Martian surface, project scientists drew a picture of Mars that keeps
alive the hope of finding some sort of life.

Scientists said Monday there is evidence of an ancient world that was
warm, wet and possibly hospitable to life long ago, and a dry rocky
world that has changed little in at least 2 billion years.

Some sort of climate change divided the wet and dry periods, but
scientists don't yet know what it was, project manager Matthew Golombek
said during a review of the $266 million mission's scientific results.

The picture of Mars drawn from initial data "held up fairly well with
our subsequent scientific analysis," he said at a briefing at NASA's
Jet Propulsion Laboratory.

Pathfinder, which radioed data back to Earth until last September,
detected that 3 billion to 4.5 billion years ago, the Martian surface
teemed with fast-flowing water that deposited some of the boulders seen
by Pathfinder's cameras.

The so-called Twin Peaks that dominate the hills on the landing site
horizon appear to be islands shaped by water. And Pathfinder found rock
conglomerations and pebbles that suggested water in the past.

But Golombek said Pathfinder pictures also suggest the area has been
"dry and static" for the last 2 billion years. Only erosion from wind
has changed the scene, stripping away 2-3 inches of surface material,
he said.

"The surface has undergone very small, if any, changes at all,"
Golombek said as he showed the latest 360-degree video images of the
landing site.

Rich Zurek, the project scientist for the 1998 Mars Climate Orbiter and
Mars Polar Lander -- both to be launched in December -- said NASA's
next missions to Mars will continue the search for water. The next
lander will be equipped with an arm that can dig a few feet to see if
water is hiding beneath the surface.

With the whole world watching, Pathfinder bounced to a stop on the
Martian surface on July 4, 1997. Its rover Sojourner rolled about 300
feet, analyzed rocks and took more than 500 pictures.

The mission demonstrated a low-cost and reliable way to land on a
planet using a cushion of giant airbags and showed that a robotic rover
could scurry around and carry out commands radioed from Earth.

After nearly a year of analysis, scientists say all the rocks examined
by the rover's alpha proton X-ray spectrometer seem to be made of
high-silicon volcanic rock known as andesite -- also found in Iceland
and the Galapagos Islands here on Earth.


By JANE E. ALLEN, AP Science Writer


Copyright =A91998 Nando.net
Do you have some feedback for the Nando Times staff?






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                          Japan Readies Mars Probe

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 05:57:13 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 11:24:17 -0400
Subject: Japan Readies Mars Probe

AP via ABCNews. URL:

http://www.abcnews.com:80/sections/science/DailyNews/mars_japanprobe9806
30.html

Stig


*******


Photos, Data Expected Next Year

Japan Readies Mars Probe


By Martin Fackler

The Associated Press


T O K Y O, =BF June 30   =97 Japan is set to join the select circle of
interplanetary spacefaring nations with the scheduled launch this
weekend of its Planet-B probe to Mars.

If all goes as planned, the half-ton unmanned craft will begin beaming
back photographs and experimental data from the Red Planet in October
1999.

It will be the first effort by a nation other than the two former Cold
War superpowers=97the United States and Russia=97to visit another world.

"We=92ve worked a long time to get this level of self-sufficiency in
space," Yasunori Matogawa, director of Japan=92s Kagoshima Space Center,
said as preparations entered their final stages today.

The probe is scheduled for launch early Saturday morning from the
Kagoshima center in southern Japan.



10-Month Voyage


The $80 million probe will begin its mission atop a newly developed M-5
four-stage rocket, Japan=92s most powerful launch vehicle.

After two swings around the Earth, the probe should gather enough speed
to make the 440 million-mile voyage to Mars in 10 months.

Matogawa said one objective of the Planet-B program is to examine the
Martian atmosphere to see how it reacts to solar winds and to measure
the rate at which life-giving oxygen escapes into space.

While in orbit around Mars, Planet-B also will photograph the planet=92s
massive sand storms and use high-frequency pulses to search for traces
of water beneath its surface.

While the probe was designed and built in Japan, four of the craft=92s 14
experiments were provided by the United States, Canada, Sweden and
Germany.

Japan also will rely on the U.S. National Aeronautics and Space
Administration=92s deep space tracking network to receive the probe=92s
transmissions.



The Search for Water


Matogawa said the probe is designed to use Japan=92s expertise in
atmospheric and space plasma research to compliment data collected from
U.S. probes, such as the Mars Global Surveyor currently mapping the
planet=92s surface.

Photographs from the Mars Global Surveyor last month showed a dark
patch at the bottom of a crater that could be ice=97the latest evidence
the frigid planet may once have been warm enough to sustain life.

Japan=92s next planned missions include a robot probe in 2002 to bring
back rock samples from one of the solar system=92s thousands of
asteroids.

Matogawa said Japan=92s next visit to an alien planet will likely be a
probe to Mercury launched early in the next millennium.


Copyright 1998 Associated Press.

Copyright (c)1998 ABCNEWS and Starwave Corporation.





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                                Nick Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 20:46:59 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 11:23:28 -0400
Subject: Nick Balaskas

Hi everyone!

We can now make it possible for extraterrestrial beings
interested in our DNA to have it without having them abduct us
from out beds, take us aboard their crafts, undress and poke us
with strange instruments before returning us to our homes in
someone else's pyjamas. For just $50 you can send your DNA
directly to them.

A modern European Ariane 5 rocket will take your DNA into
geosychronous orbit afterwhich a small rocket will be fired to
take your DNA from high Earth orbit towards Jupiter whose
gravity will fling your DNA out of the solar system. No kidding.
For your 50 bucks you even get a membership kit which includes a
poster, a lapel pin and a certificate among other things, and of
course, a plastic bag for your DNA.

The mission is called "Encounter 2001" and is associated with
Celestis Inc. of Houston, the people who pioneered
space burials.  See the following web site for details.

http://www.encounter2001.com/main.shtml

Nick Balaskas








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                        Re: Detailed images of Mars?

From: Erica Furgison <believer17@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 21:47:39 PDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 11:33:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Detailed images of Mars?


>From: Mark LeCuyer <randydan@wavetech.net>
>To: "UFO UpDates Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Detailed images of Mars?
>Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:02:15 -0500

>From: Alien Astronomer
>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583

><giant snip>

>As far as I can see, and by their own admissions, we should be
>able to get images just as detailed as those from Mars
>Pathfinder. Images just as detailed as if you were to pick up a
>camera and take a picture of something no more than 10 feet away.
>Why don't they zoom in for a closer look and put an end to this
>controversy once and for all.

If NASA was to zoom in on the images and find that these
structures were man made than that would be proof undeniable. As
long as NASA doesn't know this they can go around thinking that
we are the only intelligent beings in the solar system (a
preposterous idea!).

Admitting that human beings are inferior is hard for people to
accept.

For example, there are billions of stars in the universe and even
more planets. Even with knowing all of this scientists and
skeptics are still willing to believe that we are the only
intelligent life form.

Erica







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                       Re: Video of 'UFOs' Around MIR

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 02:58:30 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 11:39:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Video of 'UFOs' Around MIR

>Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 00:50:29 -0300
>From: Carlos Barboza <cbarboza@adinet.com.uy>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Video of 'UFOs' Around MIR

>Hello all,

>I also have a tape showing a cigar-shaped object that gets close
>to MIR, It was taken by astronauts through ship's window. In the
>same film (provided by a friend of mine) there is also another
>UFO approximating to a Telstar satellite as it was being
>repaired.

>I'm going to ask you no $25 for this, but instead I will upload
>it to somewhere in the internet once I manage to convert it to
>video file. I must contact a friend with a video-capture card
>first. I'm interested in Susan's tape but I rather wait until the
>author accepts uploading it. I don't think anybody should mix UFO
>research with making money from it.

>Estoy de acuerdo contigo John Velez.

>Carlos Barboza (from Uruguay)
>cbarboza@adinet.com.uy

Hola Carlos,

(Yo tenia un primo, -que murio- con el mismo apellido,
"Barbosa!" El mundo si es pequen~o!)

Please bear with the 'Espanol" por favor. I want Carlos to
feel comfortable and to insure that he understands me.
Besides, Spanish is one of the most beautiful languages
on the planet and I love to use it (sometimes abuse it as
I do English) at every oportunity.

Carlos wrote:

>I'm going to ask you no $25 for this, but instead I will upload
>it to somewhere in the internet once I manage to convert it to
>video file.

Asi es como se hacen las cosas! Loose translation for the
Gringo's, "That's the way the boys downtown get things done!"

Bravo Carlos!

>I must contact a friend with a video-capture card first.

If your friend is unable to do you the favor, just let me know.
I will be happy to convert any files into a moviegif. or other
format that will play well on the web for you. I'm sitting on
an industrial quality Macintosh audio/visual workstation
with all the bells and whistles. It is (I am) at your disposal
if you need help. (Si necesitas ayuda, avisame. Estoy a sus
ordenes.)

By the way, . . . no charge. <G>
(Hago el trabajo gratis.) <Sonrisa Grande>

Best of luck and thank you. (Suerte, y gracias.)

John Velez








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                     Re: 'Believers' Say It's About Time

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 04:57:05 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 11:20:30 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Believers' Say It's About Time

>From the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. URL:

http://www.accessatlanta.com:80/news/1998/06/30/ufo_full.html

Stig


*******


June 30, 1998


UFO study: Believers say it's about time

By Bill Hendrick, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Walter Sheets, a former College Park police chief, saw his first UFO in
the mid-'60s and has seen a slew of them since. He welcomes a new call
by a distinguished group of scientists for more research on whether
space aliens have ever visited Earth.

So does Michael Hitt, a Roswell police officer who has also seen some
UFOs. He says the scientists' conclusion -- that many UFO sightings
have never been adequately explained -- is not only obvious, but long
overdue.

If Sheets and Hitt are kooks, they have a lot of company. Most of the
American public would probably agree with them, according to the latest
Southern Focus poll by The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

The poll found 59 percent of Southerners and 66 percent of people
outside the South think UFOs are real, or at least could be. The poll
also found that 53 percent of Southerners and 62 percent of people
outside the region think it's at least possible that aliens have
visited Earth.

Perhaps lending validity to those views, the scientific panel, which
conducted the first independent scholarly review of UFOs in nearly
three decades, published its 50-page report Monday. It argued more
research is needed because many strange phenomena have been pooh-poohed
too quickly. It cited mysterious objects on radar, strange lights
flitting in the skies, aberrations in the workings of automobiles, skin
burns of witnesses and radiation found in vegetation.

The panel, headed by Stanford University physicist Peter Sturrock and
made up of scientists from other major universities, chided scholars
worldwide for shying away from UFO research because of the potential
for ridicule. It noted that meteorites and ball lightning were
"originally dismissed as folk tales."

Sheets and Hitt said this new recommendation will spark increased
enthusiasm for a scheduled "sky watch" after dusk on July 11, at which
dozens of Georgians are expected to converge on a "UFO hot spot" in
Troup County. The event is sponsored by the Georgia chapter of the
Mutual UFO Network, of which both men are members.

Hitt, 42, MUFON's state historian, said thousands of UFOs have been
sighted in Georgia. He said "hot spots" change every few years and that
Atlanta and military facilities in Georgia have all been areas of alien
scrutiny over the years.

Faded Journal-Constitution archives show "flying saucers" have been the
subject of dozens of serious news reports since World War II. In 1952,
for example, the Constitution published a United Press International
story reporting that the U.S. military had ordered jet pilots to take
off instantly in pursuit of "flying saucers" reported anywhere in the
country.

In 1973, a story in the Journal, quoting officials of the North
American Defense Command, reported that it was "very unlikely" that a
flock of UFOs sighted over Georgia could be explained away as space
junk falling to Earth.

The Air Force last year made public what it said would be its last
report on UFOs. It explained that the famous "Roswell incident" of
1947, thought by many to be a UFO crash near the New Mexico town, was a
military experiment with high-altitude parachuting, involving dummies.

The Pentagon launched Project Blue Book in 1952 to investigate
thousands of UFO sightings and ended the research in 1969, concluding
it had found no useful evidence any unexplained phenomena constituted a
security risk.

Sheets, 49, a Vietnam combat veteran who spent 25 years as a homicide
detective before becoming police chief in College Park, argues that
Washington wants to sweep UFOs under the rug because it fears "if
mankind were to learn about another intelligence from elsewhere, there
would be chaos in our society."

He said he personally has investigated hundreds of sightings. He said
he saw his first UFO as a student in the 1960s, peering through a
telescope. He saw a "V-shaped formation of disc-like craft, traveling
east to west, high in the sky, performing unusual and bizarre aerial
maneuvers."

He said many sightings are made by police officers, who often are
reluctant to tell their superiors for fear of being labeled kooks.

Hitt said he saw his first UFO in 1969 when he took his family to
Florida to watch an Apollo moon launch. The night before blastoff, he
said, "we saw something that looked like a shooting star, streaking
across. But then it stopped, and reversed its course, and did this
zigzag pattern for 15 seconds. I knew no one would believe me, so I got
my sister, mother and grandmother to look, and they all saw it. It was
very rapid."

Hitt said he feels UFOs have been visiting Earth for eons but started
coming more often after atomic bomb detonations started in 1945. He
said it is "well documented" that Dobbins Air Reserve Base in Marietta
was "buzzed" by UFOs in 1952, the same year strange objects were
reported streaking over the White House by Washington newspapers.

John Thompson, a 45-year-old LaGrange insurance executive and a past
state director of MUFON, said he and his family -- his wife and three
sons -- saw a UFO on Feb. 20, 1994, that had to be from out of this
world.

"It looked like a string of bright, non-blinking Christmas tree lights,
just sitting in the sky, low on the horizon. It had a large white light
in the center, and it was revolving."

By arguing that UFOs definitely do exist, the MUFON members go far
beyond the new scientific report, which only suggests more study. Many
other academics ridicule the very idea of UFOs, and say that the only
research needed is psychological: to determine why people believe.

Glenn Sparks, an expert on belief systems at Purdue University, said
his research shows that angst over the coming of a new millennium, fed
by Hollywood movies and TV shows, is fueling belief in UFOs and other
kinds of unproven phenomena, like ghosts.

"People seem to want to believe," he said. "It's a general way of
coping with upheaval in society."

Michael Murphy, an anthropologist at the University of Alabama, said:
"There is absolutely no archaeological evidence for UFOs, though it
would be irrational to think that in an infinite universe, there is not
other life. But it's just as irrational to think that any of that alien
life could have found Earth and would be interested in us if they did,
unless they were entomologists and wanted to study us like bugs."

Dr. Terry Sandbek, a clinical psychologist in California who also
specializes in behavior, said the reason people believe in UFOs is
simple: "It's the same reason we enjoy fiction. It's fun."

*

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution is doing a small UFO poll.  A voting
option and the interim results can be found at

http://www.accessatlanta.com:80/news/1998/06/30/ufo.html


Do you believe in UFOs?

Yes:              85%  145

No:                   9%   16

Unsure:            5%    9

Total Votes:   170=BF


Have you seen any in the Atlanta area?
=BF
Yes:              10%   18     =BF

No:                 89%  150

Total Votes: =BF 168


Should the government fund more research on UFO=92s?

Yes, this phenomenon can=92t be ignored any longer: 19%  33

No, it=92s a waste of money: 13%   24     =BF

The government knows all about UFO=92s, they just don=92t want us to know:=

67%   116

Total Votes: 173


Related links

Search  *The Stacks for stories about UFO sightings

(snipped)


Visitor Agreement | =A9Copyright 1998 Cox Interactive Media






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                    Non-Sub. Post - 'Alien Recovery' Team

From: Concorp@aol.com [Name Not Known]
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 02:25:32 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 11:37:22 -0400
Subject: Non-Sub. Post - 'Alien Recovery' Team


Ed Komarek of Thomasville,Georgia and Rob Bailey of Troy,
Michigan  have formed a recovery team to excavate 5 alien
skeletons from a remote glacial site located
near the Alaskan/Canadian border.

The skeletons were orignally discovered in 1938 by a member of a
police organization while searching for a missing person.Recovery
operations begin in July and members of the media and scientific
community will be apprised of the search results.






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                     Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 07:54:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 17:00:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study


>Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 17:58:59 -0700 (PDT)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study


>>Stanford, CA, June 29, 1998 --- In the first independent review
>>of UFO phenomena since 1970, a panel of scientists has concluded
>>that some sightings are accompanied by physical evidence that
>>deserves scientific study. But the panel was not convinced that
>>any of this evidence points to a violation of known natural laws
>>or the involvement of an extraterrestrial intelligence.

>[...]

>The conclusions of this panel are cause for a small celebration,
>I think. Although they are couched in very cautious words, and
>they failed to recommend taking any witnesses' reports into
>consideration, and they went out of their way to downplay the
>likelihood that UFOs are piloted or controlled by intelligent
>creatures not from Earth, it's still an advance towards opening
>scientists' minds. The discovery in recent years of extra-solar
>(large) planets probably played a role in giving the panel the >
>courage to go as far as it did. It should cause the "giggle
>factor" to be used just a bit less frequent and to be less
>threatening. But of course members of CSICOP and other
>debunker-types will attack the panel and its conclusions
>strenuously, as usual.

Jim Deardorff

As I read the full report in the Journal of Scientific
Exploration my emotions ranged from surpise/shock to anger to
disappointment. Have we learned nothing in 30 years since the
Condum report? (intentional) This looked to me like deja vue
all over again... especially in comparison to the 1953 Robertson
Panel where several scientists - a Nobel guy included - decided
that all sightings could be explained and then recommended
debunking... (CIA sponsored, by the way).

At the Robertson panel we actually had the Air Force (Project
Blue Book) presenting the best cases to a presumably
dispassionate panel. At that time no physical evidence was
presented....except highly analyzed film (Tremonton/Newhouse and
Great Falls/Marianna), and perhaps some pictures (not sure about
everything that was presented) And now 46 years later we have
the Sturrock Panel (fortunately not CIA sponsored) which comes
up with nearly the same thing., BUT AT LEAST...they said it was
worthy of study.

However, I would argue that there is "physical evidence." I
presume that the presenters were not aware of the Project
Twinkle movies of May 1950 when cinetheodolite cameras at the
White Sands proving Range obtained film and triangulation of
objects flying over the area. Triangulation and film analysis
showed 30 ft diameter, flying rapidly at about 150,000 ft. Look,
skeptics, we didn't have anything that flew that high in 1950
(and precious little now). Film was analyzed by experts. Film
was lost by "experts". We know of its existence through the
records of Project Blue Book. So... the tilm was lost....no
physical evidence? Also, physical scientists are going to have
to come to grips with the FACT that you can't take the easy way
out and reject sightings simply because they consist only of
witness testimony. In some cases teh witness testimony is
EXTREMELY compelling and furthermore involves descriptions of
phenomena that remain unexplainable after analysis.... and some
of these cases point toward Other Intelligences. (Uh oh,
banishment to UFO Hell again!)






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                         Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 07:53:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 16:55:14 -0400
Subject: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4


>Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:58:02 -0500 (CDT)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4


>>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4
>>Date: Mon, 29 Jun 98 12:17:09 PDT


>For what it's worth, however, I don't think that such exercises
>are as totally irrelevant as you apparently do. For instance,
>Ronald D. Story compiled a UFO encyclopedia and then went on to
>author another book based on just such a "best case" list, UFOs
>and the Limits of Science -- presumably because he gave some
t>hought to the question. I hope I'm not giving away any trade
>secrets here, when I say that someone else who occasionally
>posts on this List is also presently at work on a UFO book based
.on the "ten best cases" approach, and has been actively querying
>various ufologists for same as a starting point.

(SNIP)

>Again, the reason why I brought this whole issue up in the first
>place was because I had just finished working on a book which
>required 50 reliable cases -- and it wasn't quite the "snap" I
>had anticipated. As a sidelight, I might add that the closer one
>approaches the present, the harder good case histories are to
>come by (a feeling, I believe, expressed by Clark himself on
>occasion, although I won't put words in his mouth). Indeed, the
>latter is in danger of extinction, being rapidly superceded by
>abduction accounts, conspiracy theories, and more and more
>Roswell ephemera.>

(SNIP)_
>But since it's unfair to ask another to do what one wouldn't do
>oneself, I will shortly post a personal list of 20 UFO cases
>drawn (culled?) from the 50 mentioned earlier. I won't
>necessarily defend each and everyone of them to the death if
>called upon to do so, naturally, but I will throw them out there
>for discussion. Or dissection. Whatever>

Dennis

I agree that having "ten best cases" or 5 or 1 or 100 would be
valuable. We should attempt to find at least one case that the
majority of contributers can agree remains UNEXPLAINED AFTER
EVALUATION and, furthermore, APPEARS THAT IT WILL REMAIN
UNEXPLAINABLE IN THE FUTURE, where explanation is in terms of
known phenomena (e,g.,explaining a UFO as ball lightning is
explaining one unknown with another).

Several weeks ago when this list was tied up in arguing the
merits and application of Ockham's Double Edge Sword I pointed
out in a post that was resoundingly ignored that, rather than
endlessly argue finde points of philosophy we would actually
accomplish something if we essentially investigated and vetted a
case on line. (Something like this happened last summer/fall in
the discussion over the Arnold sighting and whether or not it
could be explained as fast geese or even faster pelicans.... but
then that discussion faded out since, I guess it appeared that
these explanations were for the birds).

One nice thing about using historical sightings is that there
has been time to collect all available information and there is
already a background of discussion from which to start and
amplify various aspects of the sighting.  Furthermore, as I
have pointed out in THE UFO/FBI CONNECTION, a number of
"ancient" cases are well enough reported so that the Air Force
could legitimately conclude (from FBI document, July, 1952) that
3% of the sightings could not be explained and that top AF
officialks were seriously considering interplanetary ships.






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   Jul > Jul 1

                         Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 07:54:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 17:03:59 -0400
Subject: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4


>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4
>Date: Mon, 29 Jun 98 12:17:09 PDT

>Let us reflect on the grand words of Ed Ruppelt, than whom none
>has put it better:

>"What constitutes proof? Does a UFO have to land at the River
>Entrance to the Pentagon, near the Joint Chiefs of Staff
>offices?  Or is it proof when a ground radar station detects a
>UFO, sends a jet to intercept it, the jet pilot sees it, and
>locks on with his radar, only to have the UFO streak away at a
>henomenal speed?"

>The apostate,

>Jerry Clark


Dear Apostate:

RIGHT ON!

And regarding the SSE UFO panel you mentioned: I must say I my
response ranged from shock to anger to disappointment as I read
the JSE article on this pane; (now available on the web page)
when I discovered that, apparently, we have learned nothing in
the 30 years since the Condon study. Also I was surpised/shocked
to find out that there is nothing for physical scientists to do
since there is "no physical evidence." And I ask myself....
gee....what have I been doing all these years?

SORRY, WRONG ANSWER is what I would have said to them if they
had given that answer to the question, what can a physical
scientist do. Instead I would have pointed out that physical
scientists are needed, at the very least, to be able to
serparate the wheat from the chaff, the gold from the dross,
etc. You have to have a background in physical sciences to know
what SHOULD NOT be occurring..i.e., to recognize the anomalous
when it occurs (and it does occur!).

So, inspite of the UFO panel I won't give up that ship
(spaceship or other type..... in fact a nice speedboat to take
me water skiing would be a good start).

So, guys, see you in UFO Hell, should that be where we are
banished by conventional science/scientists.

Incidently, the SSE report is not all gloom and doom (just
mostly). Fortunately, (and it may just be dumb luck), the press
put the "best light" on this by emphasizing that for the "first
time" scientists were recommending that UFO sightings be studied
seriously. As result of this "positive spin" the report is not
treated as silly season stuff, even though (or perhaps because)
it states that there is "no physical evidence" of ET (or
whatever).

In the Washington DC area there is a nighttime talk show which
had one of the UFO panel members on (Jay Melosh of U of
Arizona). He is a "hard nosed" skeptic. I just happened to hear
the beginning of the show as I was riding in my car. When I got
to my office (work late) I called in and was able to speak
with/debate Melosh. It just so happened that the talk show host,
Chip Franklin, had me on his show a year ago to talk about my
book UFOS ARE REAL- HERE'S THE PROOF (Ed Walters and Bruce
Maccabee, Avon paperback,. $6.00 cheap. ....shameless plug).

Franklin, although skeptical, did not write me off as he might
have most. Hence, when I got on the air in the latter half of
the show and did not have time to complete some
statements/thoughts I was expressing, he invited me to stay over
for a "few minutes" the next hour (which was essentially an open
hour in his program). SAo many people called in that I ended up
on his show for the whole hour following Melosh, discussing,
etc., and fielding questions from the audience. (One man who
called in said he was 13 years old near Mt. Kisco New York at
the time of the famous Westchester County UFO sightings
(1983-1986). He was a witness to one particular event of a large
object that flew near his house and was seen by his family and m
any of their neighbors.)

As Franklin said off-line, when this subject comes up, "they
come out of the woodwork." There's a lot of interest "out
there", along with the truth...






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   Jul > Jul 1

                        Re: 'Eliptical' Crop Circles

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 07:54:28 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 17:10:20 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Eliptical' Crop Circles


>From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Eliptical' Crop Circles
>Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 20:01:45 PDT

>>From: "Leanne Martin" <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: "Eliptical" Crop Circles
>>Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 23:25:02 PDT

><snip>

>>Ladies and Gentlefolk,>

>>The above story prompts me to put forward an hypothesis for
>>discussion on the whole 'crop circle' issue.

>>We call these events "crop circles" for the obvious reason - the
>>common shape caused in the fields. But we have here the very
>>distinct shapes of eliptoids, or 'stretched' circles. Why should
>>this occurrance be so different?

More properly called Agriglyphs (like petroglyphs are pictures on
rocks, these are pictures in agricultural crops)

>>Tonight, go outside with a torch and shine it vertically to the
>>ground.
>>You should, of course, see a circular bright spot. Then slowly
>>tilt the beam away from you until you can see the bright spot
>>change shape.

>>Anything come to mind?

>>I suggest that it is quite possible that 'crop circles' are the
>>result of satellite based beam experiments - perhaps even
>>targeting experiments from the S.D.I. The complex shapes and
>>accurate patterning of some of them suggest a very obvious
>>control process.

>"The complex dragon and West Overton circles formations seem to
>have appeared overnight, with no reports of unusual activity in
.the area beforehand. Thanks to Gerry Lovell.

>FarShores http://www.farshore.force9.co.uk.

>Editors note: Recent sampling of the crop formation and soil
>samples indicate high Electro magnetic and microwave effects
>have occurred within these fields.>

>One farmer in England who hired guards to watch his fields to
>prevent hoaxers from hurting his crops. While under guard, the
>crop formations developed in 30 seconds to a maximum of five
>minutes.">

><snip>.

>Some of you may recall that a year or two ago there was a report
i>n some main stream media about a proposed 'theoretical'
>microwave link to an orbital solar power collecting source. I
t>hink we may be seeing the results of experiments along these
li>nes, with ever more complex designs being the result of fine
t>uning of the targeting system. .

>Looking at it as an economical resource - when you throw
>billions of dollars (U.S.) into the 'Star Wars' weapons system,
>.and your main enemy disappears with a whimper, what else are you >
>going to do with all that
>hardware floating above us?

>Regards,

>Leanne Martin
>Computer Engineer $ WANG GLOBAL Australia

Well, having worked on portions of the "Star War's" research for
the last 15 years I would have to say that IF there were a high
power microwave beam weapon orbiting the earth (there isn't) it
wouldn't be used to "burn holes" in agricultural crops in
England or anywhere else.

If used at all it would be against the intended targets,
ballistic missiles and perhaps high flying aircraft.

But, there aren't any.such weapons.

And by the way, just in case you hadn't noticed, the ballistic
missile threat is in some ways WORSE now than when President
Reagan (remember Ray Gun?) proposed the Strategic Defense
Initiative over 15 years ago. Worse because economic conditions
are causing a breakdown in civilization in the FSU (former
Soviet Union). This breakdown could result in a loss of control
over the "button" to fire one or more missile. And also, by the
way, we have been told that there are no missiles directed at
western countrie. This may be true, BUT it would take only
minutes for the missile to be targetted at the USA ....or
elsewhere.

As for the development of aniballistic missiles and "Star Wars",
the story goes that wise old President Reagan asked someone what
we would do if we heard that there was an accidental (or
intentional) launch of a Soviet missile. He was told.....
nothing, we do nothing, we haven't time to do anything (30
minutes max!) and then we suck it up! Reagan, being the
reactionary throwback that all the liberal pinko's believed him
to be, thought that just maybe the Soviets might lose total
control of all their missiles and one just might get launched.
But worse than that, they might decide to attack in a big way,
so Reagan said, why don't we try to build a defense? Thus began
the Strategic Defense Initiative, which had its heyday between
1985 and 1991.

Believe it or not, in the face of all the criticism the SDI
continues under its new name of several years back, Ballistic
Missile Defense Organization (www. acq.osd.mil/bmdo). Although a
lot of money had been spent, the continual criticism of the
program has resulted in a slowdown to the point where as of
today there still is no "battlestation" in orbit. Hence, if a
disaffected citizen of the FSU (Former Soviet Union) should
decide to launch one for the hell of it...we would still have to
suck it up.

As for the "crop circles", I might also point out that the
really interesting agriglyphs are not the circular or elliptical
ones, but the highly complex structures consisting of circles,
squares, spirals, straight paths, etc. which have been seen over
the last 8 years or so, Thes odd shapes are far from what one
would get by shining a beam downward at some angle. One would
need, at the very least, a beam that can be scanned or a beam
that can be shaped into a very complicated arrangement of
intensities (like imaging a cookie cutter onto a field of
grain).






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   Jul > Jul 1

                     Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 07:53:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 16:48:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study


>Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 01:50:44 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study


>>Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 17:58:59 -0700 (PDT)
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study>

>I watched it on three seperate news broadcasts here in NY. The
>report was given A-1 'serious news' treatment on all three
>broadcasts. (Two of which are nationally syndicated. ABC World
>News and Report with Peter Jennings and WPIX (Warner Bros.
>Network) Evening News with Jack Caferty. WPIX gave it the most
>air time (3 mins!) and included a brief interview with Prof.
>Peter Sturrock.

The most important thing about this panel event is the press it
has received. The panel really didn't prove anything... the full
report says "no physical evidence" so nothing for physical
scientists to do. The report says no evidence of something
unknown. In other words...nothing there. The big difference is
that Sturrock apparently convinced the unbiased (?) panel to go
along with the idea that there might be something discovered if
investigations of sightings were done and so the press picked up
on the "high side" of the report: "scientists recommend
investigation of UFO sightings."

SO, hats off to Sturrock and the SSE "Team."  EVen if they
couldn't put over the ET hypothesis, they got some good press.






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   Jul > Jul 1

                     Re: Friedman's Laws for 'Debunkers'

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 07:54:47 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 17:13:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Friedman's Laws for 'Debunkers'


>Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 17:06:57 +0100
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John Rimmer <johnr@magonia.demon.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Friedman's Laws for 'Debunkers'

>>Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:50:32 -0300
>>From: "Stanton T. Friedman" <fsphys@brunnet.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Friedman's Laws for 'Debunkers'

>>It is almost impossible to deal rationally with someone who makes
>>the absurd claim "We all know that no alien craft crashed at
>>Roswell and that MJ-12 is a fake." I know a number of scientists
>>who accept neither conclusion. .. so your claim is obviously
>>false...

>STF

>Could we have some details of these scientists, such as their
>names and qualifications to make judgements on MJ12 and Roswell?
>Have they published anything on these topics?


I have read the arguments pro and con...including the "dummy
drop" theory of Roswell..... and I say the case is still open. I
can't prove that what crashed was actually an alien spaceship...
but on the other hand, I don't buy the Mogul theory, either.
Moreover, with Marcel's testimony of nearly 20 years ago now
(and rejecting claims of how "untrsutworthy" he was), I would
say the evidence is still weighted on the side of "not made
here" (and not in Germany and not in the Soviet Union).








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                      Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 07:54:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 17:06:37 -0400
Subject: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'


>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'
>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 00:29:58 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>> From: RobIrving@aol.com
>> Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 00:34:47 EDT
>> To: updates@globalserve.net
>> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

>> Apart from this being built, layer upon layer, of non sequiters
>> - Mark Cashman's comparitive categorizations of events/shapes,
>> etc., for example

>To exactly what are you referring Rob?>

>I have never created a comparative categorization of events /
>shapes of UFOs. I have created a catalog of UFO reports which
>show some similarities of appearance. This level of
>systematization, arising directly from an examination of the
>data, is, of course, far from a non-sequiter (a phrase not
>readily comprehensible in this context, in any event).>

>I have also created a behavioral classification system for UFO
>reports. Again, this system represents only a basic level of
>classification of UFO reports based on common features which are
>frequently reported. Being based on the data, this system also
>easily escapes being "layer upon layer of non-sequiters".>

>If you can show me that either of these systems are not
>consistent with the underlying data, then I will thank you for
>helping me improve them.>

>Please note that neither of these classification systems even
>require OEH - they are simply classifications based on reports.>>

As nearly as I can tell, it is Irving's comment which is a
"non-sequitur." The compliation of data and the sorting of said
data in similarity classes, etc. is common in science.

>> While Mark Cashman may argue that multiple witness reports
>> amount to some kind of repeatability, in scientific terms it
>> doesn't. In fact, this form of inductive reasoning is
>> demonstrably false, and often borders on the disingenuous.

>Since I have never argued this, I suspect it is your logic which
>is at fault.

>I have, however, suggested, that multiple independent
>observations, especially via separate systems (i.e. radars at
>different frequencies, eyes and radars, eyes and photographs)
>represent a higher standard of validity than single witness
>observations, and a challenge to the analyst.>

There is a sense of repeatability in multiple witness reports. A
single event (appearance of a UFO) reported by several people is
like an observation experiment being done several times at the
same time, since each person's observation is his own. Of
course, there may be some cross-contamination after the event as
nearby witnesses compare notes. But in those case (and I know of
some) where distant witnesses uinknown to one another witness an
event, and there is no subserquent "cross-fertilization" then
the sighting is like a "repeated" observation. Instead of
showing the event to witness A and then repeating the event to
show it to witness B, you let witnesses A and B see it at the
same time. Of course, the main importance of this sort of
occurrence is that the presence of multiple witnesses reduces
the liklihood that any one of them was delusional or hoaxing. As
Mark says, multiple witness events are a "challenge to the
analyst." Especially daylight, multiple witness events when the
UFO is seen well enough for the witnesses to determine its shape
and dynamic characteristics.







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   Jul > Jul 1

             Re: Jeff Glickman's report on Hoagland's conference

From: JJ Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.net>
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 17:19:15 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 17:19:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Jeff Glickman's report on Hoagland's conference

Hi all,

Jeff Glickman's excellent report on Richard Hoagland's University
of New Mexico conference may be found on the web at:


http://www.mufor.org/conrep2.html

Regards,

JJ Mercieca
Malta UFO Research

http://www.mufor.org






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                         Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 98 09:48:33 PDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 17:39:40 -0400
Subject: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4


> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 00:06:21 +0100
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: John Rimmer [John Harney]  <johnr@magonia.demon.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4

> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4
> >Date: Tue, 30 Jun 98 08:18:41 PDT
>
> With the compliments of P.L.A. Driftwood.

> I pass on the following message from ex-Meteorological Office
> Scientific Officer John Harney (NOT Senior Scientific Officer, as
> the incompetent Rimmer reported):

> I edit Magonia ETH Bulletin, not John Rimmer, and am solely
> responsible for its contents.

> I do *not* think that Jerome Clark is intellectually dishonest or
> that he indulges in absurd posturings. I merely think that he is
> mistaken in giving creedence to the ETH.

As I think you are mistaken in giving credence to the shaky
allegations of Philip J. Klass or the PSH crowd. That said, I
appreciate the clarification and thank you for making it. Your
published remarks do not make clear the distinction between me
and the charlatans we both hold in contempt.

Jerry Clark






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                      Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

From: Rod Eastman <darkstar@carrollsweb.com>
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 14:26:59 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 17:53:04 -0400
Subject: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'


> From: RobIrving@aol.com
> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 22:45:22 EDT
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> > From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'
> > Date: Sun, 28 Jun 98 13:36:18 PDT

> Jerry,

> Despite your attempts to suggest otherwise, many of the points
> I've made to Sean do not oppose the idea that "myopic
> conventionalism" <my words> slows down progress. I don't see why
> science would be different from any other human activity.

> So we agree. But I simply don't see sufficient evidence that the
> ETH is being obstructed in this way, as its proponents like to
> claim.  You haven't offered any convincing examples, just
> abstract association with earlier examples, none of which are
> particularly relevant, imo.

> Incidentally, the recent news regarding the scientific panel
> study of UFOs bears out the point I've been making.  But even
> this has been falsely portrayed in 'either/or' terms - viz, if
> you are sceptical of the ETH, then you must be embarrassed by
> it. This is sheer nonsense, premature bleatings.

> >"Belief" is not the problem with the ETH's more rational
> >proponents, of course.

> Belief is a problem for everybody in this regard. That is the
> whole point of this thread -- that it often doesn't matter how
> 'rational', or detached we like to think we are.  Your certainty
> would concern me if I cared at all - there's little difference
> between having an X-shaped gap and believing in X.

In contradiction Rob, belief is not a problem for everyone. I do
not believe their is eveidence supporting UFO's, however that
does not give me leave to close my mind to the  chance that some
may one day be found. And again in contradiction, their is a
very large difference between having the X-shaped gap and
believing in X, and that difference is reality; try walking thru
a doorway that doesn't exist. Or from another perspective, try
getting someone to walk thru that same doorway that believes it
isn't their. Belief and reality are natural opposites that will
many times meet in the middle and work for the better, debunking
and close mindedness work for the benefit of only those seeking
attention and recognition for their limited accomplishments. We
owe it to ourselves, the human race to investigate the UFO
phenomenon with an open mind to the possibilites we COULD
discover. How much has been lost to the human race due to our
own arrogance which has been exceeded only by our close minded
research.

Rod.







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                         Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 98 11:08:33 PDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 17:43:56 -0400
Subject: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4


> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 21:47:36 -0500 (CDT)
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4

> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4
> >Date: Tue, 30 Jun 98 08:48:41 PDT

> >> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 21:25:46 -0400
> >> From: The Duke of Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com>
> >> Subject: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4
> >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> <great snip>

> Duke, Jerry, List:

> My three cents on this particular topic.

> I happened to be present at the 1991 Chicago MUFON Symposium
> when, to the best of my knowledge, Swords gave one of the first
> public presentations of his thinking about exobiology, in
> particular, why aliens might more or less resemble us, at least
> in basic terms (body trunk, number of limbs, placement of eyes,
> ears, mouth, nose, and other sensory organs, etc.). As far as it
> went, I think it's quite reasonable (and well reasoned). For
> those who haven't seen Swords's articles, to which Clark
> constantly refers, its basic premise (to ruthlessly summarize
> same) is that only certain body forms (resembling ours) will
> achieve space travel, and therefore, those aliens we are most
> likely to be visited by will resemble us in rough form.

> An example: while it's reasonable to postulate that somewhere an
> intelligent seafaring species with eight tentacles has evolved,
> that species won't likely go on to develop spacefaring
> technology because it's extremely difficult to smelt iron
> underwater. And so on.

> In abstract principle, Sword's thinking is perfectly
> permissible, as far as it goes. But even Swords's theory
> contains its own built-in limitations and complications. For
> instance, regardless of whether or not one accepts every
> component of the Drake equation, it still represents a sort of
> fundamental starting point. By definition, Swords limits the
> number of possible spacefaring aliens vis-a-vis Drake, which in
> turn limits the possibility of contact. In other words, with
> fewer civilizations qualifying as capable of interstellar
> travel, the issue of how they could conceivably "stumble" across
> the planet Earth, and repeatedly, at that  -- and just in our
> lifetime -- is greatly increased.

The weight of evidence, of course, is currently falling in
the direction of Swords and others who suspect the galaxy --
and the larger universe -- is densely populated.  All one
has to do is to read the newspapers; you don't have to go
to obscure scientific journals anymore to follow the argument.
The discovery that planets are apparently ubiquitous should
give heart to anyone sympathetically inclined to the ETH.
If the galaxy is full of millions of advanced civilizations, we
ought to EXPECT to see them.  If we don't see them or any
evidence of them, they likely don't exist, and the SETI program
is a big waste of time, money, and personnel, and all those
popular and academic books on intelligent life elsewhere
are destroying trees for nothing.

Again, I urge everybody not to read my summary or Dennis'.
Go to Swords' papers in JUFOS and elsewhere, then follow
the threads of argument and debate in the ETI literature he
cites as well as the literature he doesn't cite.  (There you will
discover, by the way, speculations about ETI that will strike
you as pretty implausible, and rather less based on empirical
reasoning than Swords'.  That sort of stuff may make you feel,
as it did me, good about being a ufologist, where at least we
[or the most thoughtful of our number, anyway] try to argue
from a body of perceived evidence, not just from the
unfettered imagination. The products of the latter ought to be
identified for what they are: science fiction.)

The point Dennis misses here, I think, is the one I have
attempted to make continually (not "constantly," Dennis),
albeit so far without any notable success: namely that,
contrary to what debunkers and Purely Speculative
Hypothesizers (if there is any longer a distinction) want us
to believe, the ETH is neither absurd nor indefensible.
Swords shows that the ETH can be defended using principles
embraced by many scientists writing and researching in
exobiology.  You can determine that easily by reading this
literature for yourself.  Swords does not go beyond that
observation, and neither have or do I.

The larger question -- of whether the ETH is right or wrong (or, for
that matter,  whether its more serious rivals are right or wrong)
 -- awaits resolution.  And that is why the recommendations of
the Sturrock panel are a good step in the right direction.

It's also why, the PSHers and their frequently expressed desire
for instant and comforting answers notwithstanding, our discussions
ought  to be focused on the pragmatic and the here-and-now.
The ETH is a reasonable provisional hypothesis, conclusive
proof or disproof of which -- barring a White House landing -- is
on the other side of a whole lot of hard work and analysis.  If you
want it quick and easy, folks, you're in the wrong business.  And if
you think all of the important questions have been answered,
you're living in dreamland, and I don't mean the one in Area 51.


Jerry Clark








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                      Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 98 11:39:34 PDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 17:48:42 -0400
Subject: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'


> From: RobIrving@aol.com
> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 22:45:22 EDT
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> > From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'
> > Date: Sun, 28 Jun 98 13:36:18 PDT

> Jerry,

> Despite your attempts to suggest otherwise, many of the points
> I've made to Sean do not oppose the idea that "myopic
> conventionalism" <my words> slows down progress. I don't see why
> science would be different from any other human activity.

Interestingly enough, this morning Minnesota Public Radio --
which NEVER deals with UFOs -- devoted an hour to a discussion
among scientists on, prominently among the issues talked about,
it is "professional suicide" (not my phrase but that of a
skeptical University of MInnesota astronomer) for a scientist to
take up UFO study. News reports following the release of the
science panel's recommendations re continued UFO research quote
some members on how they plan to deal with the criticism and
ridicule they expect from colleagues. And of course the panel
members could hardly have been more conservative in what they
had to say.

> >"Belief" is not the problem with the ETH's more rational
> >proponents, of course.

> Belief is a problem for everybody in this regard. That is the
> whole point of this thread -- that it often doesn't matter how
> 'rational', or detached we like to think we are. Your certainty
> would concern me if I cared at all - there's little difference
> between having an X- shaped gap and believing in X.

Unfortunately, "belief" has been reduced in discourse and debate
about anomalies into mere rhetoric. You used it in the context
of the scoffer, who uses it in this sense (to borrow from David
Hufford, who writes amusingly on the subject): "What I know, I
KNOW; what you know, you only BELIEVE."

> I'd be more convinced by your protestations of 'rationale' if
> you at least acknowledged that ufology has a personality problem
> rather than simply portraying ET believers as being beyond the
> fringe of what is otherwise a serious study

See above.

> >The abuse hurled at SETI advocates, for
> >example, parallels that at ETH advocates.

> As far as I am concerned the main difference is that SETI is
> asking questions - looking for evidence - rather than giving
> answers with little evidence. But then, I rarely, if ever, hurl
> abuse at anyone.

A charitable view of the SETI literature, I must say. I have
found much of it wildly speculative, and so have its many
critics.

> Much as you enjoy portraying things in this way, not everyone
> who differs in opinion to your own are ignorant and abusive

Good to hear something refuted I never said or thought. I have
repeatedly stated that honorable persons can disagree. My
quarrel is with people who think that those who disagree with
them are necessarily stupid, gullible, or mere "believers." That
is my quarrel with you.

> >>I stated: Festinger liked nothing better than to use
> >>'flying saucer' enthusiasts as an example of this.

> >Festinger's ideas about cognitive dissonance have been
> >pretty well challenged in the sociology of religion literature.

> Really? Where? Can you provide specific references, and state on
> which grounds his theory was challenged? Even more pertinently,
> why do you seem so ready to accept this. I'm genuinely intrigued.

Be glad to. First, however, a challenge for you:

> > Wrong on all counts.

> It sounds so authoritative when you say that, doesn't it? Even when
> in fact it is you that is er, erring...
>
> > To the best of my knowledge, Festinger wrote
> >about only one flying-saucer group...

> In this instance the best of your knowledge is paper to my
> scissors. You assume I was talking about 'When Prophesy Fails'
> when I was not. As you say, most of this book concerned one
> particular group. However, in Festinger's 'A Theory of Cognitive
> Dissonance' which I strongly recommend you read, he states more
> generally:

> ~ Similarly, if one person believes that flying saucers are
> space ships from other planets and some other person voices the
> opinion that flying saucers, as such, do not even exist, the
> resulting dissonance in the cognition of the former may be
> reduced if he can believe that the latter is a stupid, ignorant,
> unfriendly, and bigoted individual. ~

Is this statement based on anything other than his work with
Dorothy Martin's group, with which I gather you are largely
unfamilar?

> Boy Jerry, as I copy this material I realise how terribly
> relevant to the discussion it is. But I should put the statement
> in its proper context. It comes from Chapter 8, entitled 'The
> Role of Social Support' (p. 182).

> In the preceding paragraph but one Festinger writes:

> ~ 3. Another way of reducing dissonance between one's own
> opinion and the knowledge that someone else holds a different
> opinion is to make the other person, in some manner, not
> comparable to oneself. Such an allegation can take a number of
> forms. One can attribute characteristics, experiences, or
> motives to the other person or one can even reject him or
> derogate him. ~

A pretty good description of the debunker mentality. See my
editorial in the March/April 1992 issue of IUR (you ARE familiar
with that publication, aren't you, Rob?) for some striking
examples.

> Reading your approach to 'discussion', Jerry, I have to admit
> difficulty in understanding how these ideas have been
> successfully challenged. Whether you agree with me on this or
> not, I believe that it's valuable for opposing positions to
> co-exist, along with anything in-between. What Festinger calls
> tolerance for ambiguity.

"Tolerance for ambiguity" -- in those very words -- is something
I have long urged. What it's gotten me on this list is the
accusation, hurled by somebody we both know and love, that I am
a "pathological fencesitter." For an essay-length commentary on
the need to tolerate ambiguity, see my "On Anomalous Experience"
which introduces my book Unexplained! (1993).

> Equally, in truth I suspect that you are not the
> self-important prat your role apparently demands.

And I would like to think the same of you.

> No, even in my closed-minded illiteracy I too remain intrigued
> by UFOs.

> >I cite numerous examples in my UFO Encyclopedia.

> As you keep telling us. If you send me a copy I promise to read
> it. I have not seen your book on any UK bookshelves... is it
> mail-order only?

Yes, alas. The trade-paperback version, the one available in
book stores for a price the normal human can afford, contains
about 30% of the material on the expensive, two-volume reference
edition.


> Don't forget to pass on that refutation of Festinger's theory,
> Jerry. For it appears that you are a living, breathing
> refutation of that refutation.

Ah, would that it were that important. Before I go any further
with this, Rob, I want to point out that you are trying to avoid
the big issue. You even deleted my reference to it, apparently
thinking I wouldn't notice. No such luck. Let me ask you: which
whopping historical error do Festinger, et al., make, a mistake
bearing directly on their theory?


When you've done so, you can send me your regular mail address,
and I'll send you Gordon Melton's paper "What Really Hapens When
Prophecy Fails" (which, annoyingly, I now discover I've
misfiled, after just looking at it a couple of days ago; well,
I'll find the damn thing somewhere, and if not, I can ask Melton
for another copy).

> Or are you just playing to the audience. If so, "Bravo!".

No more than you are, my friend.

> >All I learn from the quote is that David Deutsch is phobic about UFOs,
> >and not especially rational on the subject. Pardon me while I yawn.

>
> Clearly you have not read Deutsch, and I'm left wondering if you
> have even heard of him, yet you feel qualified to ridicule him
> along with any who are remotely critical of UFO enthusiasts
> (or... negatively swayed by the loudest dogmatists?).

I am left wondering why, if Deutsch is such a brilliant guy, you
chose such a knuckleheaded quote to cite.

Criticizing anybody "remotely critical of UFO enthusiasts"? Was
Deutch's your idea of "remote criticism"? Since I have been
often critical of UFO enthusiasts, and have written fairly
voluminously on that subject, I simply don't understand what
you're talking about. Since "balanced" is the adjective used
most often in reviews of my UFO Encyclopedia, I think I can
state safely that I have a good track record of sticking it to
both sides. I'd be happy to compare my record in that regard
with yours. You up for it?


> One is reminded of Orwell, who said of sentences and sentiments
> like Deutsch's, they give "an appearance of solidity to pure
> wind."

> Animal Farm? If so, how very appropriate. If we ever get to do
> Animal Farm I have a feeling who will want to play Napoleon.

You? Actually, the quote was from "Politics and the English
Language."

> Add my belated but genuine congrats to the others, btw...I was
> highly impressed by your award, and pleased for you.

Thanks. All this aside, I look forward to meeting you one of

these days. I hope you are as partial to your nation's blessed
brewing industry as I am, and we can do our best to support it
in each other's company.

Best,

Jerry Clark








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   Jul > Jul 1

                  Sturrock Report - Oz Physicist Weighs In

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 98 15:07:34 PDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 18:32:50 -0400
Subject: Sturrock Report - Oz Physicist Weighs In


Hi, everybody,

In view of the historic pronouncement this week from a panel of
physical scientists who looked at the UFO phenomenon and urged
their colleagues to do the same, I thought these remarks of an
Australian physicist -- of whose views I have just learned --
deserve noting. I have not seen them cited previously in the UFO
literature:


"Although ... I have never seen the phenomenon personally, I
feel that there is no question that it exists. I have talked to
six eyewitnesses of the phenomena and think there is no
reasonable doubt as to the authenticity of their observations.
Furthermore, the reports are all remarkably similar and have
common features with the hundreds of observations that
appear in the literature."

-- John Lowke, Institute of Industrial Technologies, CSIRO,
quoted in Scientific American









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                      Efforts to Recover SOHO Continue

From: Scott Jordan <sjordan@sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 15:36:15 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 20:23:49 -0400
Subject: Efforts to Recover SOHO Continue


Don Savage
Headquarters, Washington, DC                        June 30, 1998
(Phone:  202/358-1727)

Bill Steigerwald
Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, MD
(Phone:  301/286-5017)

Franco Bonacina
European Space Agency Headquarters, Paris, France
(Phone:  33-1-5369-7713)

RELEASE:  98-118

EFFORTS TO RECOVER SOHO SPACECRAFT CONTINUE
AS INQUIRY BOARD CO-CHAIRS NAMED

       Engineers are continuing efforts to reestablish contact
with the NASA/European Space Agency (ESA) Solar and Heliospheric
Observatory (SOHO) spacecraft using NASA's Deep Space Network
(DSN).  Contact with SOHO was lost on June 24 during maintenance
operations.

       A team of experts from ESA and Matra Marconi Space, prime
contractor for the SOHO spacecraft, gathered at NASA's Goddard
Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, MD, to assist the NASA Flight
Operations Team in assessing the situation and analyzing the
spacecraft status should contact be reestablished.

       Engineers are concentrating on gaining a full understanding
of the events which led to the loss of signal, information which
might help them devise procedures which may recover contact with
SOHO.  Commands are being sent to SOHO about once per minute
through the DSN=D5s 34-meter antennas instructing the spacecraft to
activate its transmitters.

       Based on the last telemetry data received from SOHO,
engineers said it appears most likely that the spacecraft is
slowly spinning in such a way that its solar arrays, which
generate power, either do not face the Sun at all or do not
receive adequate sunlight to generate power.  However, based on
the last data received, it appears that SOHO's solar panels may be
exposed to an increasing amount of sunlight each day as it orbits
the Sun.  If this assumption is correct, within a few weeks enough
sunlight might be hitting the solar panels to generate power to
charge its batteries.

       The incident will be the subject of a joint ESA/NASA
inquiry board co-chaired by Prof. Massimo Trella, ESA Inspector
General, and Dr. Michael Greenfield, Deputy Associate
Administrator for the Office of Safety and Mission Assurance, NASA
Headquarters, Washington, DC.  The other members of the board will
be selected from ESA and NASA as well as from the scientific
community.  The board is expected to convene later this week at
NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, MD.

       More information, images and status reports from SOHO can
be found on the Internet at:

            http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/

                          - end -


____________________________________________________________________________=
_
To subscribe to SOHONEWS send mail to Majordomo@sohomail.nascom.nasa.gov=
 with
an empty 'Subject:' line and 'subscribe sohonews' as the body of the=
 message.
To send information to be distributed in SOHONEWS, please, send e-mail to
editor@sohomail.nascom.nasa.gov
____________________________________________________________________________=
_
Luis Sanchez Duarte
SOHO Science Data Coordinator
European Space Agency





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                  Re: Non-Sub. Post - 'Alien Recovery' Team

From: Jeff Westover <jeff.westover@mailexcite.com>
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 12:58:46 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 18:26:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Non-Sub. Post - 'Alien Recovery' Team


>From: Concorp@aol.com [Name Not Known]
>Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 02:25:32 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Alien recovery team

>Ed Komarek of Thomasville,Georgia and Rob Bailey of Troy,
>Michigan

...email addresses and phone numbers please...

>have formed a recovery team to excavate 5 alien
>skeletons from a remote glacial site located
>near the Alaskan/Canadian border.

Identify the team, who is it led by and how can we reach him/her?
Verify please!

(I seem to remember an X-Files episode about this very
scenario...be careful, if I remember the episode correctly, you
may just unleash another dormant plague upon humanity!)

>The skeletons were orignally discovered in 1938 by a member of a
>police organization while searching for a missing person.

Which police organization???  RCMP's?  Alaskan State Authorities?
FBI Special Agent Dale Cooper of Twin Peaks? Who?!?

>Recovery
>operations begin in July and members of the media and scientific
>community will be apprised of the search results.

Apprised how?  By anonymous posts like this?

Please provide email addresses and telephone numbers so as to
verify this wild claim!

(...is this Phil K.???)

Jeff Westover





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                  Re: Non-Sub. Post - 'Alien Recovery' Team

From: dledger@ns.sympatico.ca (Donald  Ledger)
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 16:22:43 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 18:27:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Non-Sub. Post - 'Alien Recovery' Team


> From: Concorp@aol.com [Name Not Known]
> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 02:25:32 EDT
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Alien recovery team

> Ed Komarek of Thomasville,Georgia and Rob Bailey of Troy,
> Michigan  have formed a recovery team to excavate 5 alien
> skeletons from a remote glacial site located
> near the Alaskan/Canadian border.

> The skeletons were orignally discovered in 1938 by a member of a
> police organization while searching for a missing person.Recovery
> operations begin in July and members of the media and scientific
> community will be apprised of the search results.

Aw Geez...here we go again.

Don






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              Re: Roswell Incident Not Noteworthy To UFO Panel

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 02:21:26 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 00:43:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Roswell Incident Not Noteworthy To UFO Panel


>From the Nando Times. URL:

http://www2.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/health/070198/health15_25069_noframes.htm=
l

Stig

*******


'Roswell Incident' not noteworthy to UFO panel


Copyright =A91998 Nando.net
Copyright =A91998 Scripps-McClatchy Western


ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (July 1, 1998 09:39 a.m. EDT
http://www.nandotimes.com) - The Roswell incident - perhaps the
most famous, or infamous, UFO case - was not considered formally
by a scientific panel that just said some UFO reports merit
scientific inquiry.

The panel, organized and supported by the Society for Scientific
Exploration, issued an extensive report Monday concluding that
some UFO sightings have physical evidence worthy of scientific
evaluation.

But the panel of highly regarded scientists stopped considerably
short of saying "we are not alone."

Nothing it had reviewed during a weeklong inquiry into several
UFO cases last year was sufficient to suggest extraterrestrial
intelligence was involved or that any natural laws were
violated, the panel reported.

"I was a bit surprised it (Roswell) didn't come up," said Von R.
Eshleman, a Stanford University electrical engineer and
planetary scientist who was a member of the panel.

"They were told to take their best shots," Eshleman said,
referring to UFO investigators who presented cases to the panel
that they felt had the strongest physical evidence.

"There was no Roswell stuff and no abductions," Eshleman said.
"There was physical evidence, I believe, that came out of
Roswell, but I think we had a more sober group (of UFO
investigators) presenting to us."

The Roswell incident, as it has come to be known and popularized
in the hit television series the "X-Files," occurred in 1947
when a Roswell rancher discovered unusual debris on his land.
After a quick inspection, Air Force officials issued a press
release claiming to have recovered material from the crash site
of a flying saucer. Almost immediately, the Air Force retracted
the press release.

Over the years the incident has fueled claims of a cover-up that
included the alleged recovery of alien bodies and
extraterrestrial materials.

In 1995, New Mexico physicist Charlie Moore said he was
virtually certain that the recovered Roswell debris was from a
huge secret government balloon he helped launch. It was to test
whether high-altitude balloons could detect an atomic-bomb
explosion in the then-Soviet Union.

An 800-page Air Force investigative report the same year
concluded that the balloon test program, code-named Project
Mogul, was the source of the Roswell ranch debris. A later Air
Force report suggested that Roswell folklore was fueled by later
Air Force tests in the same area using parachute dummies.

"We didn't actually review any evidence connected with Roswell,
so we couldn't say whether anything there needs to be looked
at," said Thomas Holzer, a Colorado atmospheric scientist and
member of the UFO review panel.

"But obviously, the Roswell incident came up," he said. "It did
come up in dinner-time conversation, and some of the UFO
investigators thought the Air Force's most recent explanation
(citing the crash dummies) just blew it."

Holzer, who works at the National Center for Atmospheric
Research in Boulder, Colo., said most of the cases presented to
the panel raised significant scientific questions. These include
medical concerns, such as whether so-called UFO encounters could
pose real health hazards from natural or man-made phenomena such
as electrical storms or radar.

Eshleman said recent research at Los Alamos National Laboratory
that revealed colorful electrical activity, called elves and
sprites, above thunderstorms may explain some UFO claims of
weird, fast-moving lights. He noted that such phenomena occur
nearly at the edge of the atmosphere and can be seen over a
horizon, even though the storm itself is blocked by the
curvature of the Earth.

The nine-member panel was organized and directed by Peter
Sturrock, a Stanford professor of applied physics.

Holzer, like several scientists who served on the panel, said he
was reluctant to become involved for fear of criticism from his
colleagues. But he said the evidence he saw convinced him that
some UFO claims present scientific problems that need to be
dealt with for the benefit of society.

Holzer said the public is certainly interested in the matter and
suggested that scientists might actually enhance their own
status with the public by tackling the problem. He said he's not
saying he believes they might prove ultimately that
extraterrestrial life has been visiting Earth, but that science
can provide an objective forum for evaluating the evidence of
such claims.


By LAWRENCE SPOHN, The Albuquerque Tribune. Scripps-McClatchy Western
Service.


Copyright =A91998 Nando.net






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   Jul > Jul 2

              Boomerang Object Over Walthamstow East London UK

From: Roy Hale - Essex London Ufo Network <elufon@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 18:32:26 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 08:47:14 -0400
Subject: Boomerang Object Over Walthamstow East London UK

Dear List:

On the 22/6/98 at approx 10.25pm, a boomerang shaped object was
seen in the skies of walthamstow.

The object was glowing orange and was also stationery at a great
height, according to the witness who viewed the object from his
back garden.

The object was a few thousand feet up and could only been seen
with a pair of binoculars. Object seemed stationery for a while
before departing at great speed.

The witness is an investigator for ELUFON, and is someone who
has a good knowledge of civil and military aircraft, he is
certain it was none of these.

The walthamstow area has been a hot-bed for UFO activity over
the years. The FT has been a regular visitor to the area,
appearing at numerous times, especially over the nearby
reservoirs, of Chingford.

Orange balls of light (orbs) have also been seen quite a lot,
and are also seen up and down the reservoirs.

ELUFON are still investigating this and other sightings within
these areas. For more info please contact me on the above
E-mail, or at ELUFON@Yahoo.com.uk

Regards
Roy....






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                  UFO Groups Increase Pressure For Hearings

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 03:28:14 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 08:38:51 -0400
Subject: UFO Groups Increase Pressure For Hearings

>From Florida Today. URL:

http://www.flatoday.com:80/space/today/070198b.htm

Stig


*******


FLORIDA TODAY Space Online

"Planet Earth's best source for online space news"

For July 1, 1998

UFO groups increase pressure for hearings

By Paul Hoversten
Gannett News Service

WASHINGTON - Buoyed by suggestions from an international panel of
scientists, UFO groups in the USA plan to step up efforts to push for
congressional hearings into Unidentified Flying Objects.

"This could be the thing that puts it over the top," said Steven Greer,
a Charlottesville, Va., physician who heads the nonprofit Center for
the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence.

Greer was referring to Monday's report from scientists who said past
and future mysterious sightings deserve serious scientific review.

The nine-member panel, which included physicists and astronomers from
such institutions as the German Aerospace Center, the University of New
Mexico and France's University of Bordeaux, spent nine months on the
first independent review of UFOs since 1968.

The study was sponsored by the Society of Scientific Exploration of
Stanford, Calif. It's an interdisciplinary organization of scholars
formed to support unbiased investigation of claimed anomalous
phenomena.

Though it did not find convincing evidence to support the existence of
extraterrestrial intelligence, the panel noted that UFO reports dating
back 50 years contain enough unexplained observations to merit another
look.

"It may be valuable to carefully evaluate UFO reports to extract
information about unusual phenomenon currently unknown to science," the
panel concluded. "Such evaluations must take place with a spirit of
objectivity and a willingness to evaluate rival hypotheses."

The panel looked into several incidents, including:

=B0A photo taken on Vancouver Island, British Columbia, by a family
visiting a park in October 1981. It shows a daytime view of a mountain
with a silvery oval-shaped object set against the blue sky. But the
panel said it is impossible to rule out a hoax.

=B0A 1994 report from an airline crew who spotted a gigantic, fuzzy-edged
disk near Paris. They lost sight of the object when the edges appeared
to lose focus. Swiss military radar tracked it for 50 seconds.

=B0A 1992 report from Haines City, Fla., patrolman Luis Delgado, who said
he saw a green-lit object in the rear view mirror of his patrol
cruiser. He said the object was 15 feet long and hovered 10 feet off
the ground. It circled his car several times before he pulled off the
road. Then the engine, lights and radio went dead.

The panel's conclusions are far different than those reached by Edward
Condon, who headed in 1968 an Air Force-sponsored study known as the
Colorado Project. That report said further study of UFOs "cannot be
justified in the expectation that science will be advanced."

But Greer said he has 150 former government employees, many from
classified projects, willing to testify under oath of their experiences
with UFOs and how such technology can help the world.

"These people are not the flakes you see at some bizarre UFO conference
with the T-shirts and bug-eye things you wear on your head," Greer
said. "These are courageous men, and in a few cases women, who do not
want to take to their grave one of the most important issues of the
century."

He has pressed Congress and the White House to convene hearings and
take the witnesses' testimony - so far to no avail.

The last congressional inquiry into UFOs was in 1966, chaired by the
then-representative Gerald Ford.

Please e-mail comments or questions about Space Online to Editor Mark
DeCotis.

This World Wide Web site is copyright =A9 1998 FLORIDA TODAY.






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   Jul > Jul 2

                Roswell Incident Not Noteworthy To UFO Panel

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 02:21:26 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 08:32:58 -0400
Subject: Roswell Incident Not Noteworthy To UFO Panel


>From the Nando Times. URL:

http://www2.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/health/070198/health15_25069_noframes.htm=
l

Stig

*******


'Roswell Incident' not noteworthy to UFO panel


Copyright =A91998 Nando.net
Copyright =A91998 Scripps-McClatchy Western


ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (July 1, 1998 09:39 a.m. EDT
http://www.nandotimes.com) - The Roswell incident - perhaps the
most famous, or infamous, UFO case - was not considered formally
by a scientific panel that just said some UFO reports merit
scientific inquiry.

The panel, organized and supported by the Society for Scientific
Exploration, issued an extensive report Monday concluding that
some UFO sightings have physical evidence worthy of scientific
evaluation.

But the panel of highly regarded scientists stopped considerably
short of saying "we are not alone."

Nothing it had reviewed during a weeklong inquiry into several
UFO cases last year was sufficient to suggest extraterrestrial
intelligence was involved or that any natural laws were
violated, the panel reported.

"I was a bit surprised it (Roswell) didn't come up," said Von R.
Eshleman, a Stanford University electrical engineer and
planetary scientist who was a member of the panel.

"They were told to take their best shots," Eshleman said,
referring to UFO investigators who presented cases to the panel
that they felt had the strongest physical evidence.

"There was no Roswell stuff and no abductions," Eshleman said.
"There was physical evidence, I believe, that came out of
Roswell, but I think we had a more sober group (of UFO
investigators) presenting to us."

The Roswell incident, as it has come to be known and popularized
in the hit television series the "X-Files," occurred in 1947
when a Roswell rancher discovered unusual debris on his land.
After a quick inspection, Air Force officials issued a press
release claiming to have recovered material from the crash site
of a flying saucer. Almost immediately, the Air Force retracted
the press release.

Over the years the incident has fueled claims of a cover-up that
included the alleged recovery of alien bodies and
extraterrestrial materials.

In 1995, New Mexico physicist Charlie Moore said he was
virtually certain that the recovered Roswell debris was from a
huge secret government balloon he helped launch. It was to test
whether high-altitude balloons could detect an atomic-bomb
explosion in the then-Soviet Union.

An 800-page Air Force investigative report the same year
concluded that the balloon test program, code-named Project
Mogul, was the source of the Roswell ranch debris. A later Air
Force report suggested that Roswell folklore was fueled by later
Air Force tests in the same area using parachute dummies.

"We didn't actually review any evidence connected with Roswell,
so we couldn't say whether anything there needs to be looked
at," said Thomas Holzer, a Colorado atmospheric scientist and
member of the UFO review panel.

"But obviously, the Roswell incident came up," he said. "It did
come up in dinner-time conversation, and some of the UFO
investigators thought the Air Force's most recent explanation
(citing the crash dummies) just blew it."

Holzer, who works at the National Center for Atmospheric
Research in Boulder, Colo., said most of the cases presented to
the panel raised significant scientific questions. These include
medical concerns, such as whether so-called UFO encounters could
pose real health hazards from natural or man-made phenomena such
as electrical storms or radar.

Eshleman said recent research at Los Alamos National Laboratory
that revealed colorful electrical activity, called elves and
sprites, above thunderstorms may explain some UFO claims of
weird, fast-moving lights. He noted that such phenomena occur
nearly at the edge of the atmosphere and can be seen over a
horizon, even though the storm itself is blocked by the
curvature of the Earth.

The nine-member panel was organized and directed by Peter
Sturrock, a Stanford professor of applied physics.

Holzer, like several scientists who served on the panel, said he
was reluctant to become involved for fear of criticism from his
colleagues. But he said the evidence he saw convinced him that
some UFO claims present scientific problems that need to be
dealt with for the benefit of society.

Holzer said the public is certainly interested in the matter and
suggested that scientists might actually enhance their own
status with the public by tackling the problem. He said he's not
saying he believes they might prove ultimately that
extraterrestrial life has been visiting Earth, but that science
can provide an objective forum for evaluating the evidence of
such claims.


By LAWRENCE SPOHN, The Albuquerque Tribune. Scripps-McClatchy Western
Service.


Copyright =A91998 Nando.net






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   Jul > Jul 2

                 Burning Gas In Tornadoes Causes Many UFOs?

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 03:24:36 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 08:35:25 -0400
Subject: Burning Gas In Tornadoes Causes Many UFOs?


Thanks to The Press (New Zealand). URL:

http://www.press.co.nz:80/26/98070131.htm

Stig


*******


>From The Press - July 01, 1998


Burning gas inside tornadoes 'cause of UFOs'


PHOTO: JULIANNE MYERS-POULSEN=BF=BF=BF=BF=BF=BF=BF

(Photo text: Researcher Peter Coleman demonstrates equipment capable of
creating ball lightning in the laboratory.)


A new theory advanced by a University of Canterbury scientist suggests
many unidentified flying objects are balls of burning gas trapped
inside tornadoes.

Researcher Peter Coleman said his theory, published in a book, Ball
Lightning: A Scientific Mystery Explained, could apply to the Kaikoura
UFO sightings of 1978 and 1979, the Tunguska explosion in Siberia in
1908, human combustion, and numerous types of mysterious lights in the
sky.

According to the theory, ball lightning is produced when natural gas in
the atmosphere is caught in a vortex, then ignited by an electrical
charge such as conventional lightning or static electricity.

"If you had a tornado and you had a flame inside you would expect it to
blow out but there is a property called vortex breakdown that allows
the flame to survive in this high air speed environment. The vortex
bursts and creates recirculation like an eddy in a stream which allows
reduced air flow or stagnant air.

"It is like turning on your stove," said Mr Coleman, who has
demonstrated the effect in his laboratory using a vacuum cleaner,
pipes, and a camp stove.

"I could see the unconfined flame dancing around inside the pipe," he
said. The phenomenon had been observed all over the world. "I have
never seen it myself but the prediction the theory makes is that it
would be seen where there is a high concentration of natural gas and
some electrical source."

Mr Coleman said UFOs are often reported near fault lines because gas
was likely to be released before an earthquake.

He said seismic activity recorded in Cook Strait at the time of the
Kaikoura UFO sightings may have triggered a release of gas.


Copyright =A9 1998 The Christchurch Press Company Ltd. All rights
reserved. Reproduction in whole or in part in any form or medium
without express written permission of The Christchurch Press Company
Ltd. is prohibited. The Press, "The Press On-Line", "The Press" logo
and "The Press On-Line" logo are trademarks of The Christchurch Press
Company Ltd.


*Email us!






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   Jul > Jul 2

                                Info Request

From: Roy Hale ELUFON <elufon@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 18:50:10 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 08:51:41 -0400
Subject: Info Request


Dear List:

The following information is requested if possible.

Does anyone know the whereabouts of a Mr Glen Edwards  UFO
investigator. He was according to colin andrews, the man
responsible for obtaining stills off the helicopter Harrasment
at Alton Barnes Wiltshire?

Does anyone have any knowledge of a strange incidence
involving, a crop circle film (The Scorpion) to some people (
who are judged credible ) 12 months before it appeared?

Can anyone give me a contact number for a Mr Keith Basterfield -
UFO investigator in Australia?

Please contact me on Roy_Hale@Hotmail.com.uk

The above information is urgently required for the completion of
a Manuscript into the UFO/Crop Circle Phenomena.

Kindest Regards

Roy







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                      Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

From: RobIrving@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:53:42 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 09:03:13 -0400
Subject: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'


> To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>  From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>  Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'
>  Date: Wed, 01 Jul 98 11:39:34 PDT

Jerry,

>  All this aside, I look forward to meeting you one of
>  these days. I hope you are as partial to your nation's blessed
>  brewing industry as I am, and we can do our best to support it
>  in each other's company.

We have met. I arranged for you to be interviewed on the Monsters
and Miracles CD-ROM some years ago. This done so efficiently you
probably didn't notice. Yes, I am partial to the odd pint.

>  Interestingly enough, this morning Minnesota Public Radio --
>  which NEVER deals with UFOs -- devoted an hour to a discussion
>  among scientists on, prominently among the issues talked about,
>  it is "professional suicide"

Well, I don't like the idea that anyone feels pressured about
what to study or not to study, and if this latest activity brings
the subject the attention it deserves that's good. I'm all for
it. I suppose we're really talking about differences between the
business of science, and the science business.

>  Unfortunately, "belief" has been reduced in discourse and debate
>  about anomalies into mere rhetoric. You used it in the context
>  of the scoffer, who uses it in this sense (to borrow from David
>  Hufford, who writes amusingly on the subject): "What I know, I
>  KNOW; what you know, you only BELIEVE."

That's not a fair reflection of what I think. It's just more
rhetoric... more projection. I doubt that you could sensibly back
it up with unvarnished examples.

>  Good to hear something refuted I never said or thought. I have
>  repeatedly stated that honorable persons can disagree. My
>  quarrel is with people who think that those who disagree with
>  them are necessarily stupid, gullible, or mere "believers." That
>  is my quarrel with you.

Then you are quarreling with something I have never said or
thought. This character-mirroring is ridiculous Jerry.

To more interesting issues...

>  Is this statement based on anything other than his work with
>  Dorothy Martin's group, with which I gather you are largely
>  unfamilar?

He doesn't specifically say. Although he does summarise the
Martin study. In fact I am familiar with Festinger's work on her
group (only in terms of having read the book a couple of times).
My guess is that he had a 'thing' about flying saucer enthusiasts
generally... for whatever reason, I don't know. All I said was
that he enjoyed using them as an example in support of his
theories.

>  > ~ 3. Another way of reducing dissonance between one's own
>  > opinion and the knowledge that someone else holds a different
>  > opinion is to make the other person, in some manner, not
>  > comparable to oneself. Such an allegation can take a number of
>  > forms. One can attribute characteristics, experiences, or
>  > motives to the other person or one can even reject him or
>  > derogate him. ~
>
>  A pretty good description of the debunker mentality.

I guess this works both ways. But usually when one is debunking
all one has to do is focus on the bunk, rather than falsely
characterize.

>  "Tolerance for ambiguity" -- in those very words -- is something
>  I have long urged. What it's gotten me on this list is the
>  accusation, hurled by somebody we both know and love, that I am
>  a "pathological fencesitter."

Well Jerry, that's between you, Pete and your analyst. I'll
happily read your book if I can find it.

>  > Equally, in truth I suspect that you are not the
>  > self-important prat your role apparently demands.

>  And I would like to think the same of you.

I've played Desmond Leslie in Neil Oram's 'The Warp' once or
twice. I play him more 'stage-frightened gibbering wreck' than
'self-important prat' though. What a couple of luvvies we are,
eh?

>  Ah, would that it were that important. Before I go any further
>  with this, Rob, I want to point out that you are trying to avoid
>  the big issue. You even deleted my reference to it, apparently
>  thinking I wouldn't notice. No such luck. Let me ask you: which
>  whopping historical error do Festinger, et al., make, a mistake
>  bearing directly on their theory?

No deliberate avoidance Jerry. I like a challenge. So, just to
clarify the task, I have to read 'When Prophesy Fails' again and
determine errors relating to which theory, the one concerning
disconfirmation or that of cognitive dissonance?  You read the
book two weeks ago, for me it's around four years. I'll look
through it again and get back to you with an answer (or admit
that I don't have an answer). Do I get a prize, btw?

>  When you've done so, you can send me your regular mail address,
>  and I'll send you Gordon Melton's paper "What Really Hapens When
>  Prophecy Fails" (which, annoyingly, I now discover I've
>  misfiled, after just looking at it a couple of days ago; well,
>  I'll find the damn thing somewhere, and if not, I can ask Melton
>  for another copy).

That would be interesting, but no prize. A worthwhile prize would
be the two-volumes of your encyclopedia, delivered to my door.
That's if I pass the challenge. What's the forfeit if I'm wrong?

>  I am left wondering why, if Deutsch is such a brilliant guy, you
>  chose such a knuckleheaded quote to cite.

Kindly explain what is so knuckleheaded about it. You
concentrated on the least important part, his reference to UFO
enthusiasts, without dealing with its essential part; 'shoddy
explanations that yield correct predictions are two a-penny...'.

Don't like Deutsch?  Historian Felipe Fenandez-Armesto says much
the same thing: '... trustworthy conclusions cannot be based on
unverified premisses'.

Why is this knuckleheaded?

Rob






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   Jul > Jul 2

                 MUFON's Maine Director On 'Sturrock Review'

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 04:14:14 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 09:22:25 -0400
Subject: MUFON's Maine Director On 'Sturrock Review'

From: The Portland Newspapers (Portland Press Herald and Maine Sunday
Telegram).

http://www.portland.com/news/story11.htm


Stig


*******


Wednesday, July 1, 1998


To him, UFO sightings are far from alien


Bill Nemitz Column

=A9Copyright  1998 Guy Gannett Communications


For 17 years, he has devoted much of his life to ever-deepening
convictions that not all people who report seeing UFOs are nuts, and
that not all visitors to Maine are from Massachusetts.

But Leland "Bud" Bechtel knows that when the guys down at the local
Agway in his hometown of Weld ask between guffaws if he has seen any
flying saucers lately, he's not exactly winning converts to his cause.

And while the Maine director for the Mutual UFO Network does the wise
thing and chuckles right along with them, he wonders deep down why it's
all so hard to believe. Who's to say they're not out there - analyzing
us, charting our progress, zooming in for an occasional close-up late
at night when only the lonely are looking?

"When you look at the statistics on the number of suns out there, it
staggers the imagination," said Bechtel, 73, a retired associate
professor of psychology at Bates College who now spends much of his
time running down UFO sightings in Maine. "It simply isn't that
fantastic to think there is life elsewhere in the universe."

This week, at long last, that "out there" view picked up signals of
potential support: An international panel of scientists concluded that
for the past 30 years, UFOs have not received the scientific research
they deserve. Fear of the "giggle factor" and the dreaded label
"lunatic fringe" has discouraged most researchers from taking on what
the Society for Scientific Exploration now says is a legitimate issue
"in a very unsatisfactory state of ignorance and confusion."

In other words, the scientists said, it's time we stop chuckling about
the hundreds of reported sightings clogging the Internet - including
such Maine legends as the Allagash Abduction of 1976 (four canoeists,
two canoes and one spine-tingling story) - and start taking a closer
look.

The report, launched by Stanford University physicist Peter Sturrock,
was music to the ears of Bechtel, who heard about it Monday while
returning from a MUFON conference in Denver.

"Just that little report shows movement in a positive direction," he
said. "It's not all I'd like, but they're opening the door a crack."

And here in Maine, Bechtel says, there's plenty to see:

There's the couple from Cherryfield who watched open-mouthed one night
while a 60-foot-wide object shaped like a top, with orange windows and
"ferociously bright" lights, hovered over the blueberry barrens for 20
minutes. They even had time to go rouse a couple of neighbors, who saw
the same thing.

There's the woman in Turner who awoke to a blinding red light outside
her bedroom window. She opened the shades and saw an airborne craft
slowly backing away from her house. Up the road a quarter-mile, her
brother saw the same thing - at the same time.

There are the two college women who went skating on China Lake on New
Year's Day in 1997 and, in broad daylight, saw a strangely shaped craft
move slowly over the ice and disappear behind the trees on the opposite
shore. Inside their camp, the father of one of the women simultaneously
lost his television reception.

Bechtel, who longs for the day when he'll see his first UFO, has met
with all these people - and dozens more like them. And while some end
up in his "delusional" file, too many are responsible, credible,
down-to-earth witnesses for him not to believe there's something going
on here.

"I think it's far out, too," Bechtel said. "And I can laugh about it.
But I think in a couple of decades, things are going to be different."

So call him kooky if it makes you feel better. Then go outside, look up
at the stars - and take a ride on the nearest "what if."


- Bill Nemitz (*e-mail) is a columnist for The Portland Newspapers.


You can contact us at *The Portland Newspapers.







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                      Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

From: RobIrving@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:53:45 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 09:05:48 -0400
Subject: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'


>  From: Rod Eastman <darkstar@carrollsweb.com>
>  Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 14:26:59 -0500
>  To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>  Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

Rod,

>  > Belief is a problem for everybody in this regard. That is the
>  > whole point of this thread -- that it often doesn't matter how
>  > 'rational', or detached we like to think we are.

>  In contradiction Rob, belief is not a problem for everyone. I do
>  not believe their is eveidence supporting UFO's, however that
>  does not give me leave to close my mind to the  chance that some
>  may one day be found.

Nor me... apart from your first statement I don't see the
contradiction.

>  > ...there's little difference between having an X-shaped gap and
>  > believing in X.

>  And again in contradiction, their is a
>  very large difference between having the X-shaped gap and
>  believing in X, and that difference is reality; try walking thru
>  a doorway that doesn't exist.

This door... would it perhaps be one made from the tree that fell
in the forest which nobody heard?  Try kicking it and seeing if
it kicks back.

>  Or from another perspective, try
>  getting someone to walk thru that same doorway that believes it
>  isn't their. Belief and reality are natural opposites that will
>  many times meet in the middle and work for the better, debunking
>  and close mindedness work for the benefit of only those seeking
>  attention and recognition for their limited accomplishments.

Well Rod, I wouldn't want to argue with you. I simply meant that
when people give up on a belief, this 'disbelief' is sometimes
another form of the same belief.

It was a generally philosophical point, but not on the level of
imaginary doorways.

Rob






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                     Re: Friedman's Laws for 'Debunkers'

From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 22:01:16 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 09:13:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Friedman's Laws for 'Debunkers'

>Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:42:30 -0400
>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re:
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>Regarding...

>>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Friedman's Laws for 'Debunkers'
>>Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:50:35 -0400

>Serge wrote:

>>Now this is an interesting one.

>>_Skeptics' UFO Newsletter_ by Philip J. Klass. #43, Jan, 1997
>>404 "N" Street, SW, Washington DC 20024     (C) 1997

James,

I hope you have as much patience reading this as I had reading
the SUN document. And I sure hope my post will be less confusing
then the later. Let's look at a few things:

Since you are ready to accept as face value NSA's reports on
'UFO (PROBABLY BALLOONS)', I am sure you are ready to accept as
face value the rest of the stuff:

[XXXX] REPORT SIGHTING OF UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECT. AN
UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECT [...] THE OBJECT WAS DESCRIBED AS
HAVING A SEMI-CIRCLE SHAPE [...] * [XXXX] UNIDENTIFIED FLYING
OBJECT [...] [...] A SMOKING LUMINOUS OBJECT MOVED THROUGH [...]
SIGHT THREE UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS [XXXX] AT 1915 THREE
LUMINOUS OBJECTS WERE SEEN IN THE WESTERN PART OF [...] THE
FIRST OBJECT WAS SHAPED LIKE A HORSESHOE AND WAS WHITE IN COLOR.
THE OTHER TWO WERE ROUND AND YELLOW IN COLOR

etc.

Those UFOs don't seem to be your average every day balloon. What
were they? And in the wrong order the main question: how many of
the 156 reports contained those types of sightings? In a
nutshell: the kick about wine is not the 88% water but the 12%
of ethanol + esters + pigments + minerals + aromatics + etc. The
SUN document has apparently concentrated on water.

It does also raise a few questions.


1. If the NSA did have an interest in UFOs, would Deuley have
the right to openly speak about it?

2. How is it that SUN got only documents prior to 1982? Did SUN
file a request for all UFO matter in NSA documentation from 1982
to 1997?


3.
>  "The second non-Comint document is a three page undated,
>unofficial draft of a monograph with a four page appendix by the
>same agency employee who authored the draft referenced in
>sub-paragraph a, above....It is entitled 'UFOs _and the
>Intelligence Community Blind Spot to Surprise or Deceptive
>Data_'

Where is the official, final, dated monograph? NSA provides the
draft but not the final report? You should have seen the draft
of this E-mail... It had very little resemblance with the final
product.


4. The last paragraph of the SUN article: (capitals are mine)

>  The newly released "more declassified" copy of the 1980 NSA
>court document offers the following explanation for withholding
>the UFO Comint documents -- AN EXPLANATION THAT WAS COMPLETELY
>BLACKED OUT ON THE FIRST VERSION RELEASED BY THE AGENCY: "_The
>communication sources involved in this [FOIA] case -- are the
>source of extremely valuable communications intelligence covering
>a broad range of kinds of information from [XXXX] and other
>[XXXX] acitivities to [XXXX] and [XXXX] matters. Release of
>these documents would seriously damage the ability of the United
>States to gather this vital intelligence information_...."

Another interesting one: NSA blacked out those lines in the
first place because their publication was a threat to national
security? Let me rephrase that: it was a threat to national
security for NSA to say that those documents could pose a threat
to national security?


5. In:

>Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:18:13 -0500 (CDT)
>From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO Security Classification Hearings

>>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 05:40:43 +0200
>>Subject: C-SPAN On UFO Security Classification Hearings

We could read:

>>All the official records made public under the UFO title are
>>unevaluated reports gathered through various human intelligence means.
>>These reports always quote the term UFO, as it has been relayed to them
>>by sources. Mostly these sources are civilians, unaware of the current
>>official terminology used by the US government. The US military uses
>>two main terms in compiling and studying the UFO subject: Uncorrelated
>>Targets (UCT), for earth-bound unidentified objects, and Uncorrelated
>>Event Reports (UER) for space related events. I wrote to North American
>>Aerospace Defense Command, NORAD, about their terminology. They
>>replied:

>>'Historically, the term UFO was used by the Air Force starting in 1947
>>and ending in 1974 with the shelving of the "Blue Book" project. We all
>>know what the term UFO means, we just don't use it.....The specific
>>term "UFO" is not used by this command even though you could say that
>>this term would equate to UTR [unknown track report], either an
>>uncorrelated event or an unknown track, since an unidentified flying
>>object could be considered either.'(3)

>>Further, I was told, 'Uncorrelated Events Reports (UERs), which are
>>space related events on the United States Space Command (USSPACECOM)
>>side of the house, are always classified SECRET.' (4)

>>Uncorrelated Targets are categorised as:

>>Significant UCTs, Nonsignificant UCTs, Critical UCTs, and

>>False UCTs. (5)


Does the same apply to NSA? e.g. Acronyms for the term UFO?


Just a few questions,

Regards,

Serge Salvaille







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                         Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:20:36 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 09:40:56 -0400
Subject: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4


>Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 07:53:52 -0400
>From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> I agree that having "ten best cases" or 5 or 1 or 100 would be
> valuable. We should attempt to find at least one case that the
> majority of contributers can agree remains UNEXPLAINED AFTER
> EVALUATION and, furthermore, APPEARS THAT IT WILL REMAIN
> UNEXPLAINABLE IN THE FUTURE, where explanation is in terms of
> known phenomena (e,g.,explaining a UFO as ball lightning is
> explaining one unknown with another).

This idea is interesting as far as it goes, but some ground rules
would need to be set:

Which items of data in the report and which sequences of events
in the report will require explanation?

How many low probability events are explainers allowed to posit
in their explanations as coming together to cause this report?

To what degree are explainers allowed to claim that the witness
is a hoaxer, and what level of proof will be required before
such an assertion will be accepted?

Will all reports be required to be multiple witness?

What minimum qualifications / reputation will be required to
make a witness account acceptable?

Will multiple independent witnesses offset lower witness
qualifications?

Will physical trace evidence or instrumentation be required?

You can see how hard this might be. The debunker will insist
that they be allowed to reject any item of testimony they object
to on grounds of a priori unbelievability, that any number of
low probability events be acceptable, that a low threshold of
proof for claiming a witness a hoaxer is essential, that
multiple witness reports are no more evidential than single
witness reports, and that the only acceptable trace evidence is
a component of clearly non-terrestrial origin. The believer will
insist that none of this is relevant, since the aliens have told
him why they are visiting us, and that all witnesses are telling
the truth without error, and that the speck of metallic material
recovered from his foot is sufficient trace evidence. The
scientifically oriented, open-minded skeptic such as myself
might state:

1) Only multiple witness cases are allowed.

2) Witnesses must have some level of technical knowledge.

3) Witnesses must have a reputation of some value which is
threatened by their willingness to report publicly. Previous
history showing observational skills and personal integrity is
required.

4) All data and events in the report must be coherently
explained by any explanation and no more than one low
probability event is allowed. No data may be changed or
ommitted.

5) Misperception explanations will require a careful validation
based on cognitive and perceptual psychology in the context of
conditions at the time and the witness' qualifications.

6) Hoax claims will only be admitted when a history of hoaxing
or practical jokes can be documented, or when the hoax has been
admitted, or when an unequivocal attribution of the hoax to
specific persons using evidence sufficient to convict for fraud
is presented.

7) Multiple independent witnesses reporting the same event or a
nearly identical event within a short interval will be
considered to offset lower technical qualifications in the
witness.

8) Photos, radar, ground traces or lasting vehicle effects are
admissible as physical evidence.

This at least represents a starting point.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/library.htm
------







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              Re: Ufology And The 'Giggle Syndrome' (Sturrock's

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 04:08:36 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 09:20:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Ufology And The 'Giggle Syndrome' (Sturrock's

>From ABCNEWS. URL:

http://www.abcnews.com/sections/science/DyeHard/dye62.html

Stig


*******


UFOlogy? No Giggling, Please

In France, the crew of an airliner reported seeing a giant disk, about
half a mile wide, hovering over Paris. Military air traffic controllers
also saw it on radar.

***

Scully and Mulder move aside. Real scientists are taking a look at
those reports of extraterrestrial visitors.


(Kate Lake/ABCNEWS.com)

Special to ABCNEWS.com

July 1   =97 You=92ve got to give the old professor an A+ for guts.

Astrophysicist Peter Sturrock of Stanford University has gone where few
scientists dare to go.

Sturrock is the prime mover behind a report issued this week by an
international panel of nine scientists calling for reexamination of UFO
evidence.

No matter how carefully such a report is worded, it can=92t help but lend
credibility to those who claim we=92ve been visited by ETs.

That isn=92t the point of the report, of course, but by calling for
better scientific scrutiny of such claims, Sturrock and the other
scientists have exposed themselves to the "giggle syndrome."

The next time he attends a scientific symposium, he can expect a few
snickers when he walks in the room.

"He=92s taken some ribbing," an associate said of Sturrock, who=92s an
expert on solar physics and pulsars.

Few reputable scientists even acknowledge "Ufology" because they fear
their reputations would get tarred. Sturrock knows the risk well, and
he did not rush to this judgment.

A couple of decades ago, Sturrock was looking for an assistant with a
background in both astronomy and computer science. He hired a young
Frenchman, Jacques Vallee.

Vallee was interested in unidentified flying objects, and he asked
Sturrock to read an exhaustive 1968 report by Edward Condon. In his now
famous report, Condon concluded that UFO evidence was so inadequate
that there=92s no reason to study it further.

Sturrock read the report during a vacation in Hawaii.

But after studying the report, Sturrock concluded that while nothing
indicated UFOs were extraterrestrial in origin, some evidence could not
just be dismissed.

Sturrock did a little research of his own. He began asking other
scientists, confidentially, what they thought. To his surprise, many
who publicly pooh-poohed UFO evidence privately believed the subject
deserved scientific study.

Not a Scientific Topic
He then turned to the professional journals, asking them to publish
research on UFO sightings, but they wouldn=92t touch it with a 10-foot
pole.

So he and several other mavericks founded the Society for Scientific
Exploration, of which he=92s now president, to pave the way for
scientific scrutiny of everything from the paranormal to UFOs.

Then philanthropist Laurence S. Rockefeller, who=92s interested in UFOs,
asked Sturrock to form an international panel of scientists from
various disciplines to take another look at the "UFO problem." The
panel met twice over the past few months, and it=92s report was published
Monday in the Journal of Scientific Exploration, a peer-reviewed
periodical published by the society Sturrock heads.

The panel heard from eight investigators from four countries. One of
them was Sturrock=92s former assistant, Jacques Vallee.

The panel did not conclude that the evidence shows we=92ve had visitors
from space, or that UFOs violate the known laws of physics. What the
scientists found, however, is that in some cases the physical evidence
=97 such as malfunctioning instruments aboard airplanes, burns on
"witnesses," damage to vegetation =97 is tangible enough to warrant
further investigation.

Qu'est-ce Que C'est?
That sounds reasonable, even to most non-believers, but here=92s the rub.
The subject is so distasteful to so many scientists that there=92s no
accepted procedure for dealing with such evidence.

One exception is France. In 1994 the crew of an airliner reported
seeing a giant disk, about half a mile wide, hovering over Paris.
Military air traffic controllers also saw it on radar. The phenomenon
was never fully explained.

The French space agency now has a program to handle such reports,
including the training of police officers and investigators on how to
collect evidence of UFOs.

Sturrock hopes to see that kind of a program expanded around the globe.
While most "evidence" consists of hearsay and conflicting reports, some
events do leave physical evidence =97 such as radar records =97 that could
be examined scientifically.

Von R. Eshleman, professor emeritus of electrical engineering at
Stanford, who co-chaired the panel, believes we could take a lesson
from radio astronomers who listen for signals from other civilizations,
the so-called Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence.

Listening for Life
Eshleman says that nearly everyone who takes a turn listening to
signals collected by radio telescopes all over the world occasionally
hears something that cannot be explained. But unless that signal meets
specific standards =97 such as being repeated, or picked up by other
listeners =97 it=92s dismissed.

No such protocol exists for UFO sightings, and as a result everything
that is reported becomes "evidence," whether it warrants such treatment
or not.

A good scientific program would probably eliminate 99 percent of the
evidence, but the remaining evidence could be examined to see just what
we can learn from UFO sightings.

Is that evidence likely to point to an extraterrestrial origin for
UFOs?

Most scientists would say no, but Sturrock is a bit coy on the subject.

In interviews with reporters after the study was released, Sturrock
said life probably abounds throughout the universe, but "most
physicists believe it is quite impossible to travel from one star to
another."

Most physicists? What about him?

All he=92s willing to say is let=92s take another look at the evidence.

OK, but no giggling.


Science writer Lee Dye=92s column appears Wednesdays on ABCNEWS.com.


RELATED LINKS


*Scientist Proposes UFO Study

*The Roswell Report

*Lee Dye's Previous Columns

*SCIENCE HEADLINES added


Web Links


*Journal of Scientific Exploration

*SETI Institute

*Carl Sagan on ET intelligence

*exoScience


Copyright (c)1998 ABCNEWS and Starwave Corporation.






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                             Re: Encounter 2001

From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:56:00 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 10:53:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Encounter 2001


>Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 20:46:59 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Encounter 2001 >>


>A modern European Ariane 5 rocket will take your DNA into
>geosychronous orbit afterwhich a small rocket will be fired to
>take your DNA from high Earth orbit towards Jupiter whose
>gravity will fling your DNA out of the solar system. No kidding.
>For your 50 bucks you even get a membership kit which includes a
>poster, a lapel pin and a certificate among other things, and of
>course, a plastic bag for your DNA.

I think when I die I'll have my head frozen and sent out there.
That should give them something to think about.

Greg






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                     Re: 'Believers' Say It's About Time

From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:47:10 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 10:50:23 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Believers' Say It's About Time

>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 04:57:05 +0200
>Subject: UFO Study: Believers Say It's About Time

>From the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. URL:

>http://www.accessatlanta.com:80/news/1998/06/30/ufo_full.html


>Dr. Terry Sandbek, a clinical psychologist in California who also
>specializes in behavior, said the reason people believe in UFOs is
>simple: "It's the same reason we enjoy fiction. It's fun."

Dear list,

Re that last sentence: In the mid seventies, some friends, a
married couple, were staying on a lake here in New Hampshire
(USA). Early one evening upon exiting their cabin, they were
shocked to discover a large metal disc with three lights on the
underside hovering above the water in front of them, gently
rotating. They watched in awe for a moment, and then it suddenly
departed......"in the blink of an eye" is the way the lady
describes it.

Now...a little personal history. The man's name is Charles.
Charles flew helicopters in Vietnam, and received an award for
meritorious service from the President of the USA. He saw plenty
of combat, and lost good friends. Charles will talk about his
experiences in Vietnam, yet will not discuss his UFO sighting! If
he walks into a room where his wife is telling friends about
their sighting, he become very edgy, and tries to change the
subject, and even on occasion demands that she discuss something
else. This man clearly refuses to accept that what he saw was
real, because to his way of thinking, it simply couldn't have
been.Yet, it must haunt him every day. All he knows is that it
doesn't fit into his version of reality. Does that sound like
"fun" to anyone here?

He had no predisposition nor even desire to believe in such
things, and there were two witnesses (probably more), so there
goes PSH. And if someone can give me a non-ETH explanation that
accounts for the details of the sighting, such as instantaneous
acceleration, WITHOUT changing the facts, I'd really love to hear
it.

Greg

Strmnut@aol.com






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              CNN's Interview With Peter Sturrock (Transcript)

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 05:55:23 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 11:13:41 -0400
Subject: CNN's Interview With Peter Sturrock (Transcript)


>From CNN. URL:

http://cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/9806/29/tod.02.html


Stig

*******


CNN Today

Sturrock: UFO Reports Deserve Additional Scientific Study

Aired June 29, 1998 - 1:19 p.m. ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL
FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
____________________________________________________________

NATALIE ALLEN, CNN ANCHOR: Some scientists in the know about
UFOs are issuing a report that may heat up speculation about
this always-lively topic.

In the first independent review of UFO phenomena in more than 30
years, a nine-member group of scientists says physical evidence
linked to some sightings deserves additional scientific study.

The physicist who headed up that panel is Peter Sturrock, who
joins me now from Stanford, California.

Thanks for joining us, sir.

PETER STURROCK, STANFORD PHYSICIST: You're welcome.

ALLEN: Well, tell us about the sightings that you believe need
further examination?

STURROCK: Well, I'm not presenting my belief. I'm presenting the
assessment of a panel of scientist who met with a group of eight
investigators. The investigators were asked to present whatever
physical evidence they found in the course of their research.

And the only question asked of the panel was that, do you
believe that further study of this kind of case, this kind of
evidence, might eventually lead to answers to the problem of
understanding the cause or causes of UFO reports? And the panel
felt, yes, this would be a promising line of research for the
future.

ALLEN: So can you give us an example of a particular sighting
they may examine further?

STURROCK: Well, there were many examples given, ranging from
photographic evidence through radar, through ground traces. But
the panel, in particular, is interested in cases with more than
one kind of physical evidence. And one of those occurred in
France in 1981. It is, unfortunately, a single-witness case. But
the witness, who was working in his garden, heard a whistling
sound, saw a strange object land on his terrain and then leave.

In France, they have an official data collection and
organization, organized through the French space agency, CNES.
So the next day, the Jondomery (ph) (gendarmerie i.e., ed.) came
out and took photographs, took samples of the plants. A little
later, scientist from the space agency came out, took further
samples, further photographs, took soil samples, and took
samples of the vegetation, which were alfalfa plants. And they
found there were indentation in the soil that would have taken
about 1 ton to produce, and the vegetation has strange
biochemical changes, which could perhaps be caused by
micro-radiation; they didn't know what.

But here is one case with only a single witness and two kinds of
physical evidence. The panel really urges a search for cases
with many witnesses and more than one kind of physical evidence.

ALLEN: I believe I read that you have said that you believe
there should be more emphasis placed on the physical evidence as
opposed to witness testimony.

STURROCK: You need both, you need both. You have to have strong
witness testimony, and you have to have physical evidence that
we analyze in the laboratory. And these are really quite
different kinds of activities. And it probably would be good if
different people, or different teams, were involved in the two
types of research.

It may take an official organization, as in France, to collect
the data that can then be provided to university scientist or
other scientist to analyze the data.

ALLEN: You've also said that this field of UFO study is in a
very unsatisfactory state of ignorance and confusion. Why do you
think that is, when there seems to be something that so many
people have an interest in?

STURROCK: Well, I think basically it's because there has been no
sponsored research in this area. Almost all scientific research
in the nation is sponsored by an agency or supported by the
institution, like a corporation or an university. UFO research
has no such support.

ALLEN: Do you think you could get a corporate sponsor?

STURROCK: Did you say, do I think we can?

ALLEN: Yes.

STURROCK: That remains to be seen. I'm not looking for it.

ALLEN: How else would you try to fund this research?

STURROCK: I'm not trying to fund it. I'm simply trying to --
we're simply trying to point the way how research could be
carried out if there are any organizations or any other
countries who wish to pursue it. Now there are programs in Chile
and in France. And if three or four other countries would set up
really quite low-level research projects, then in a few years,
we may have some serious answers.

ALLEN: How much would you like to see an answer to the scenario?
You told us about this fellow in Europe. Do you have a
particular interest in that story, since you shared it with us?

STURROCK: No, I have no particular interest in any particular
story. I find it a challenge that there have been UFO reports
for 50 years, and they have been pretty much ignored for 50
years. I hope they will not be ignored for the next 50 years.

ALLEN: And what about you personally? Are we alone? Do you think
something or someone has landed here?

STURROCK: Oh, that is entirely a separate issue. Most
astronomers and most physicists believe that we probably are not
alone, that there are other life forms on other planets or on
other stars. But most physicists believe it is quite possible to
travel from one star to another.

ALLEN: Peter Sturrock, thanks for joining us. Something to think
about.






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               Re: Non-Sub. Post - 'Alien Recovery' Team [FYI]

From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 09:55:36 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 10:05:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Non-Sub. Post - 'Alien Recovery' Team [FYI]

The original message was received at Thu, 2 Jul 1998 09:55:27 -0400 (EDT)
from smtp2.globalserve.net [209.90.128.7]


*** ATTENTION ***

Your e-mail is being returned to you because there was a problem with its
delivery.  The AOL address which was undeliverable is listed in the section
labeled: "----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----".

The reason your mail is being returned to you is listed in the section
labeled: "----- Transcript of Session Follows -----".

The line beginning with "<<<" describes the specific reason your e-mail could
not be delivered.  The next line contains a second error message which is a
general translation for other e-mail servers.

Please direct further questions regarding this message to your e-mail
administrator.

--AOL Postmaster



   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<oncorp@aol.com>

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to air08.mail.aol.com.:
>>> RCPT To:<oncorp@aol.com>
<<< 550 MAILBOX NOT FOUND
550 <oncorp@aol.com>... User unknown

   ----- Original message follows -----

Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 18:26:26 -0400
To: updates@globalserve.net
From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Non-Sub. Post - 'Alien Recovery' Team
Cc: oncorp@aol.com

To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 12:58:46 -0700
From: Jeff Westover <jeff.westover@mailexcite.com>
Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Non-Sub. Post - 'Alien Recovery' Team


>From: Concorp@aol.com [Name Not Known]
>Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 02:25:32 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Alien recovery team

>Ed Komarek of Thomasville,Georgia and Rob Bailey of Troy,
>Michigan

...email addresses and phone numbers please...

<snip>

Jeff Westover






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                      'Strange Universe' On Home Video

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 04:48:12 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 10:51:35 -0400
Subject: 'Strange Universe' On Home Video


>From PRNewswire, but couldn't make the link work.

Stig

*******


Home Video is About to Get a Little Stranger!


10:18 a.m. Jun 30, 1998 Eastern


LOS ANGELES, June 30 /PRNewswire/ -- Are aliens among us? Have
you ever wondered if we are really alone in the universe? Do you
believe in miracles? Is there such a thing as ghosts? All these
and more unexplained phenomena and paranormal subjects will be
answered when Real Entertainment launches Strange Universe on
home video.

The popular reality-television series "Strange Universe" has
chronicled some of the most unusual, sensational and
intriguingly off-beat news stories from around the world and
beyond u tackling subjects not covered by the traditional news
establishment. The series explored "the whole wide weird world"
we live in to investigate and research such extraordinary topics
as religious cults, reincarnation, prophecies, astronomy,
Shamanism, New Age philosophies, scientific anomalies, among
other diverse content.

Strange Universe - Aliens Are Here: Video Proof (Item #3301, 50
min.) features some of the most compelling and remarkable UFO
footage direct from the exclusive "Strange Universe" film
vaults. To best cover this "unearthly" topic, the video is
divided into three featured sections:

* Sightings -- View rare footage of "strange objects in the
sky"; watch as an unexplained crop formation occurs right before
your eyes

* Encounters -- Hear detailed eyewitness accounts of alien
abductions

* Other Dimensions -- Travel to areas of the Earth that are
believed to be portals or gateways into other worlds; hear eerie
stories about ghosts and "the undead"

Available for sell-through at $14.99 SRP, the order date for
Strange Universe -- Aliens Are Here: Video Proof is August 11,
1998 and the street date is September 1, 1998.

"People are curious, fascinated and awed by the news of the
unexplained. They want to know more. Taking the reality genre to
new heights, the Strange Universe home video title will satisfy
this hunger with a stylish, intelligent and off-beat format,"
said John Casey, Vice President of Sales for Real Entertainment.

Additional information and artwork for this title is available
to download by visiting http://www.realentertainment.com/pr/.

SOURCE Real Entertainment







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                         Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4

From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:57:57 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 11:18:21 -0400
Subject: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4


>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4
>Date: Wed, 01 Jul 98 11:08:33 PDT

<snip>

>The weight of evidence, of course, is currently falling in
>the direction of Swords and others who suspect the galaxy --
>and the larger universe -- is densely populated.  All one
>has to do is to read the newspapers; you don't have to go
>to obscure scientific journals anymore to follow the argument.
>The discovery that planets are apparently ubiquitous should
>give heart to anyone sympathetically inclined to the ETH.

No, Jerry, that is just the point. The weight of evidence *isn't*
falling in Swords's direction, as you would know if you had
thoroughly read and digested Davis's article in The Anomalist 5
(and followed up on the 149 footnotes/references therein, as you
are always urging others to do). Name any of the "others who
suspect the galaxy -- and the larger universe -- is densely
populated."

Secondly, if the universe *were* as densely populated as you seem
to assert here, then we would already have word of same from SETI
-- ufologists need not apply.

Thirdly, there is no "discovery that planets are apparently
ubiquitous," unless you've been reading other newspapers and
sources than I have. To the best of my knowledge, about eleven
giant gas planets have been *indicated* to date, a couple or
three of which may have been more or less confirmed. But to refer
to such huge masses, typically on a Jupiter scale, as even
remotely possible sources of ET intelligence on your part, is
disingenuous at best.

>If the galaxy is full of millions of advanced civilizations, we
>ought to EXPECT to see them.  If we don't see them or any
>evidence of them, they likely don't exist, and the SETI program
>is a big waste of time, money, and personnel, and all those
>popular and academic books on intelligent life elsewhere
>are destroying trees for nothing.

I'm always amazed at the animosity shown by ufologists towards
SETI. If I were a Freudian, I would suspect some sort of penis
envy. After all, if SETI exhibited any success, wouldn't
ufologists be the first to say I told you so!?

As for trees destroyed in the pursuit of truth, ufology has its
own ecological crimes to answer for.

<snip>

>The point Dennis misses here, I think, is the one I have
>attempted to make continually (not "constantly," Dennis),
>albeit so far without any notable success: namely that,
>contrary to what debunkers and Purely Speculative
>Hypothesizers (if there is any longer a distinction) want us
>to believe, the ETH is neither absurd nor indefensible.
>Swords shows that the ETH can be defended using principles
>embraced by many scientists writing and researching in
>exobiology.  You can determine that easily by reading this
>literature for yourself.  Swords does not go beyond that
>observation, and neither have or do I.

And the point Jerry misses here is this: a 'densely" populated
universe is still separated, one civilization from another, by
immense distances, which involve gigantic expenditures in terms
of energy and other resources, to surmount. Clark seems to say,
hey, there's a lot of us out there, so interstellar travel should
be a relative snap, even though it still takes us a couple of
years to get to Mars, a planet within our own solar system.

Clark also ignores the fact, which I raised, that the Swords
argument actually *reduces* the density, i.e., number, of
intelligent life forms capable of space travel, by imposing
additional restrictions (atmospheric oxygen content ratio, etc)
on same.

In other words, Clark seems to have overlooked one of the major
implications of Sword's own theory: namely, that the universe can
be densely populated, but only a very small segment of same will
ultimately achieve space travel. Put another way: the latter is
hardly a given, as Clark seems to believe.

In addition, you can read the available scientific literature,
Davis included, and find any number of scientists who disagree
with Swords. So what determines your choice as to who's
ultimately "right" or "wrong" in this matter? Prior disposition,
I suspect.

Clark prefers Swords's description of the universe. Over the
years, I've come to prefer Davis's.

Dennis







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                     Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study

From: Melanie Mecca <natural.state@erols.com>
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 23:12:32 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 10:56:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study


> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 07:54:03 -0400
> From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> <snip>

> As I read the full report in the Journal of Scientific
> Exploration my emotions ranged from surpise/shock to anger to
> disappointment. Have we learned nothing in 30 years since the
> Condum report? (intentional) This looked to me like deja vue
> all over again... especially in comparison to the 1953 Robertson
> Panel where several scientists - a Nobel guy included - decided
> that all sightings could be explained and then recommended
> debunking... (CIA sponsored, by the way).

Right, my first impression as well - here we go again!  Now, finding out
that Rockefeller funded it seems to lean towards the green zone of
possiblity again - he's been interested for ages, no, and perhaps could
supply enough of the green to encourage the heavy hitters to think
objectively without biasing the results for $$$$ or fear of being
blackballed by the black project community?

<snip>

>And now 46 years later we have
> the Sturrock Panel (fortunately not CIA sponsored) which comes
> up with nearly the same thing., BUT AT LEAST...they said it was
> worthy of study.  > However, I would argue that there is "physical
> evidence." I presume that the presenters were not aware of the Project
> Twinkle movies of May 1950 when cinetheodolite cameras at the
> White Sands proving Range obtained film and triangulation of
> objects flying over the area. Triangulation and film analysis
> showed 30 ft diameter, flying rapidly at about 150,000 ft. Look,
> skeptics, we didn't have anything that flew that high in 1950
> (and precious little now). Film was analyzed by experts. Film
> was lost by "experts". We know of its existence through the
> records of Project Blue Book. So... the tilm was lost....no
> physical evidence? Also, physical scientists are going to have
> to come to grips with the FACT that you can't take the easy way
> out and reject sightings simply because they consist only of
> witness testimony. In some cases teh witness testimony is
> EXTREMELY compelling and furthermore involves descriptions of
> phenomena that remain unexplainable after analysis.... and some
> of these cases point toward Other Intelligences. (Uh oh,
> banishment to UFO Hell again!)

You'll have lots of company in UFO hell - those of us who think
that if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and waddles
like a duck, it most likely is a duck (ok, a souped-up-model duck
with advanced yogic powers that can walk through walls - so
what????)   But you are forgetting that fairies and demons can
assume shapes like shiny metal craft at will, and for fun they
mimic various bright lights, chase cars (a la latest BC case),
pretend to be ultra-flying machines showing off gravity-defying
feats, simulate landings as if they were solid physical objects,
and of course, abduct people to breed more fairies (because you
can never have too many).  Any physical evidence, therefore, may
appear to have some manner of ontological status but is really
just - fairy dust.  The Sturrock Panel may be in the know
already.

Melanie Mecca






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                         Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 08:04:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 19:55:49 -0400
Subject: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4


> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 07:54:09 -0400
> From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> In the Washington DC area there is a nighttime talk show which
> had one of the UFO panel members on (Jay Melosh of U of
> Arizona). He is a "hard nosed" skeptic. I just happened to hear
> the beginning of the show as I was riding in my car. When I got
> to my office (work late) I called in and was able to speak
> with/debate Melosh. It just so happened that the talk show host,
> Chip Franklin, had me on his show a year ago to talk about my
> book UFOS ARE REAL- HERE'S THE PROOF (Ed Walters and Bruce
> Maccabee, Avon paperback,. $6.00 cheap. ....shameless plug).

> Franklin, although skeptical, did not write me off as he might
> have most. Hence, when I got on the air in the latter half of
> the show and did not have time to complete some
> statements/thoughts I was expressing, he invited me to stay over
> for a "few minutes" the next hour (which was essentially an open
> hour in his program). SAo many people called in that I ended up
> on his show for the whole hour following Melosh, discussing,
> etc., and fielding questions from the audience. (One man who
> called in said he was 13 years old near Mt. Kisco New York at
> the time of the famous Westchester County UFO sightings
> (1983-1986). He was a witness to one particular event of a large
> object that flew near his house and was seen by his family and m
> any of their neighbors.)

Glad to know you got in your licks!

But I'm most curious about Melosh. Clearly, the steering
committee of this new UFO study leaned toward the unusual in
science, with the likes of David Pritchard, Hal Puthoff, and
Robert Jahn on it.

So it's the review panel that's most important -- the scientists
who reviewed the data that the steering committee helped
assemble. Melosh was a member. I'm glad to know he's skeptical,
because I'm glad to konw there were skeptics on it.

What did he say on the radio? What part of the new report did he
stress? Did he dissent from any of it? I'm eager to know what
impact this report will have on scientists, and the feelings of a
skeptic who was involved in it might be an early sign of where
this is going.

Greg Sandow







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                             Re: Alfred Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 09:37:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 19:57:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Alfred Lehmberg

Apology to MW #252 (For July 2, 1998)

Two new mewling children have appeared upon the stage. Their
history is very long; you'd  think them wise or sage. But they
wallow in their filth to show their diapers must need changing,
and they smell -- exceeding squalid -- _choosing_ wasteful,
dumb, and failing.

They're popping off their phallic nukes for billions on the
shot, while shabby folk just have more kids; their noses run
with snot! They spend all their dust for the booms and the
sizzle; their people stand shoeless, and sick in the drizzle!
They're blowing the money on hidden explosions while the lives
of their people dissolve in corrosions!

They beat their chests, and shake their *sticks* -- while
children languish, starved and sick. Lost in thrall of
infantile, they shriek and strut, and smirk and wail. They
typify an ignorance. They promulgate their dissonance. Sold out
to their total waste, they have the gall to, still, tempt fate.

Just a couple squalling children, then, among so many others;
some into adolescence but the most in dirty diapers. Some will
spend their comfort, lost, to strut and preen like birds; will
scratch the ruined ground in vain, and take until it hurts. Some
will take the low road, and will murder in their war what their
ethics had produced before their warlord changed the score. Some
will make illegal all discussion that belies . . . the
*goodness* of your culture -- or your eye upon a sky.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

I wonder -- was there any reported UFO activity in either of
those two irresponsible, immature, and ignorant locations? I
point my finger fully realizing I point three back at myself,
but I digress . . . I'd have thought the situation would have
garnered a postulated ET's interest -- if _not_ concern. Is
there any news from that part of the globe? I recall no mention
in any of the digests here on Updates. If not -- is that odd?

<tapping the mike> Is this thing on?

Restore John Ford!


--
Explore the Alien View?

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake.







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                     Re: 'Believers' Say It's About Time

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 15:43:21 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 19:30:34 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Believers' Say It's About Time

>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 04:57:05 +0200
>Subject: UFO Study: Believers Say It's About Time

>>From the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. URL:

>http://www.accessatlanta.com:80/news/1998/06/30/ufo_full.html

>Stig

>*******

>June 30, 1998


>UFO study: Believers say it's about time

>By Bill Hendrick, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Hi All,

_Now_ is the time to put pressure on the government for full
disclosure! If this panel found cause for further investigation
in the comparatively short time it has been looking into these
matters, what has the Air Force, NSA, FBI and others in our
government been up to in the 50+ years of their involvement?
Surely 'they' knew -and long ago- that there was 'something'
worthy of investigation here. Yet all we've ever gotten are
lies and denials. The speed with which this panel arrived at
it's conclusions makes the guys who run our government look
like completely, hopelessly incompetent boobs!

If they should answer a public request by saying that they
really didn't find reason or justification for further study
then we'll have to fire a few of them and let bigger, better
minds tackle the job. They work for us! If they don't produce,
we have to let them know with our correspondence and (more
importantly) our ballots.

The numbers quoted in all of the recent pop surveys represent
a politically significant group. Congressmen, Senators, all of
our representatives in Washington need to get letters and
e-mails from these folks urging them to put pressure on the
government/military for full disclosure of -any and all- UFO
related material.

The findings released by this panel has created 'energy'
(momentum.) It would be wise to make use the attention being
created by this report to rally support for a popular demand for
information. Before the publics short attention span moves on
to feed on something new!

I am going to write to my Senator and Congressman. If enough
of us do the same it may make a difference. We have absolutely
nothing to lose in trying. Let's make the best of a good thing!

Just a thought, . . .maybe what they really fear is, that if we
ever found out what they (da gubbamint) have really been up to,
that we all may just go down there and hang a few of them
on the White House lawn and the courtyard of the Pentagon.

Just a thought. <G>

Peace,

John Velez








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                     Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:55:02 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 19:41:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study

>Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 07:54:03 -0400
>From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 17:58:59 -0700 (PDT)
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study

>As I read the full report in the Journal of Scientific
>Exploration my emotions ranged from surpise/shock to anger to
>disappointment. Have we learned nothing in 30 years since the
>Condum report? (intentional) This looked to me like deja vue
>all over again... especially in comparison to the 1953 Robertson
>Panel where several scientists - a Nobel guy included - decided
>that all sightings could be explained and then recommended
>debunking... (CIA sponsored, by the way).

Hi Bruce,

I guess what we're "celebrating" is that the panel report
received a fairly favorable press coverage, and also that now,
after 30 years of advances in astronomy, the ETH will seem less
implausible to the outside scientist.

>[...]
>However, I would argue that there is "physical evidence." I
>presume that the presenters were not aware of the Project
>Twinkle movies of May 1950 when cinetheodolite cameras at the
>White Sands proving Range obtained film and triangulation of
>objects flying over the area. Triangulation and film analysis
>showed 30 ft diameter, flying rapidly at about 150,000 ft. Look,
>skeptics, we didn't have anything that flew that high in 1950
>(and precious little now). Film was analyzed by experts. Film
>was lost by "experts". We know of its existence through the
>records of Project Blue Book. So... the tilm was lost....no
>physical evidence? Also, physical scientists are going to have
>to come to grips with the FACT that you can't take the easy way
>out and reject sightings simply because they consist only of
>witness testimony. In some cases teh witness testimony is
>EXTREMELY compelling and furthermore involves descriptions of
>phenomena that remain unexplainable after analysis.... and some
>of these cases point toward Other Intelligences. (Uh oh,
>banishment to UFO Hell again!)

But keep in mind the saying that Sagan followers kept mouthing:
The more bizarre the phenomenon, the more convincing its
supporting evidence must be to be convincing (or however it was
worded).  Thus the scientist who thinks that the status quo of
human thinking will persist forever will demand 99.9999%
certainty in all the evidence of a case before conceding its
reality, if it involves non-understood phenomena. That saying of
Sagan (though not original with him, as I recall) is the negative
skeptic's salvation. He won't worry about there being large
numbers of other cases up in the 99% level, though a decent
scientist should.

But with a case of multiple events, you could perhaps treat them
all together without the skeptic insisting that each sighting or
photo occasion be treated as if it were the only one. How about
with Gulf Breeze and Ed Walters? You could estimate the odds that
Ed could have hoaxed pictures taken on one occasion and not have
slipped up in some irrefutable way; then the same for a different
occasion with different lighting conditions, etc., and so on,
including photos of identical or similar craft by other people in
Gulf Breeze, and including Ed's photo of the UFO with its shadow
moving along rapidly. You've already sort of done this,
qualitatively. Most of these instances would have required
different means of hoaxing, all with large probability of being
unsuccessful. So the odds that Ed could have done it successfully
would be the product of a large number of small fractions. You
might come up with 10**-20 or less odds of success overall for Ed
as a hoaxer.  By rights, this kind of analysis should be extended
to the masses of other sightings of UFOs. But even after the
resulting odds that it's not a genuine unknown phenomenon have
dropped below 10**-100, the negative skeptic will cling to the
infinitessimal odds that it *was* a hoax! But it might convince
some true skeptics.

Jim Deardorff
Web Page: http://www.proaxis.com/~deardorj/index.htm







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                        Re: 'Eliptical' Crop Circles

From: Mark LeCuyer <randydan@wavetech.net>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 02:49:09 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 19:44:03 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Eliptical' Crop Circles


> From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Eliptical' Crop Circles
> Date: Wednesday, July 01, 1998 4:10 PM

> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 07:54:28 -0400
> From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Eliptical' Crop Circles
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> >From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
> >To: updates@globalserve.net
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Eliptical' Crop Circles
> >Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 20:01:45 PDT

> >>From: "Leanne Martin" <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
> >>To: updates@globalserve.net
> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: "Eliptical" Crop Circles
> >>Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 23:25:02 PDT

<snip>

> As for the "crop circles", I might also point out that the
> really interesting agriglyphs are not the circular or elliptical
> ones, but the highly complex structures consisting of circles,
> squares, spirals, straight paths, etc. which have been seen over
> the last 8 years or so, Thes odd shapes are far from what one
> would get by shining a beam downward at some angle. One would
> need, at the very least, a beam that can be scanned or a beam
> that can be shaped into a very complicated arrangement of
> intensities (like imaging a cookie cutter onto a field of
> grain).

From: Alien Astronomer
http://www.geocities.com?area51/Shadowlands/6583

Hello Everyone :-)

Crop circles always reminds me of this simple experiment:

Take a flat panel of fairly thin metalic material and sprinkle
sugar on the surface. Using the bow from a violin, run it up or
down the perimeter of the flat surface and watch how the
vibration causes goemetric shapes to form. Different vibrations
cause different patterns.

Could there be a possible link?

Mark






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                      New goals/directions for Ufology

From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 07:28:05 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 19:53:20 -0400
Subject: New goals/directions for Ufology


>From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net>
>Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 22:37:06 -0500
>Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 07:33:57 -0500
>Subject: Re: UFOs and Mainstream Science

>>Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 20:40:49 -0500
>>From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net>
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: UFOs and Mainstream Science

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

EBK and List,

Since the publishing of the erroneous conclusions of the Condon
Study in 1969, it has been "out of fashion" or "out of
mainstream" for scientists, in general, to openly proclaim any
serious interest in UFOs. It has taken monumental effort by
_all_ serious UFO researchers, data accumulated, etc. and the
proper conclusions of the Sturrock Committee to overcome the air
of illegitimacy which has tainted ufological research in some
people's minds for approximately the past 28 years.

Click below for the Sturrock workshop
http://www.jse.com/ufo_reports/Sturrock/toc.html
Location: Journal for Scientific Exploration web site:

John Powell had posted a letter from Bernard Haisch, Ph. D.
(Journal of Scientific Exploration) back in December 1996 to
which I had responded.

Dr. Haisch's original letter located at:
http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1996/dec/m27-006.shtml

My response, below, was intended as a combination "thank you,"
from all serious researchers, for his and the JSE's important
contributions and a simplified review of some of the things he
brought to our attention in his original essay.

I believe it is probably important at this time to once again
review some of the items which were addressed by Dr. Haisch and
the JSE as a partial step in redirecting our primary goals to
hopefully keep us flowing in an ongoing positive and productive
direction.

Although one may feel that some of what he discusses may be
almost impossible to achieve in ufology as it exists today,
other things most certainly have great merit. (Successes of the
combined efforts of FUFOR, CUFOS, MUFON, etc. as an example.)

It is also important to note that even with the recent Sturrock
success, our debates will certainly continue until we hopefully,
eventually cut closer to the core of the enigma we are
attempting to examine. We should also remember that success in
this one area, although certainly a time to rejoice (yes, we all
earned it), does not mean it is time to relax.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

>Dr. Haisch .. you wrote:

>>UF0's and Mainstream Science

>>by Bernhard Haisch, Ph. D.

>>[Bernhard Haisch is the Managing Editor of the Journal of
>>Scientific Exploration, P.O. Box 5848, Stanford, CA 94309.
>>E-mail: <haischGjse.com>]

>>(Mutual UFO Network UFO Journal, Number 335, March 1996,
>>Copyright 1996 by the Mutual UFO Network, 103 Oldtowne Rd.,
>>Sequin, Texas 78155, published monthly with a
>>membership/subscription rate of $25/yr.)
>>---

>A RESPONSE FROM ONE RESEARCHER:

>JC:   Your thoughtful letter certainly deserves a reply. First,
it is a pleasure to hear someone of your credentials and
background saying that you have "been exposed to enough data and
met enough serious investigators to become supportive of the need
to carefully study whatever this phenomenon (phenomena,) may be."
The points you have brought to our attention are excellent.

>>  From someone who is "an insider in the scientific mainstream:
    author of research papers, principle investigator on NASA
    projects, associate editor of a leading journal in
    astrophysics," this statement alone and your "Journal of
    Scientific Exploration' (JSE)" is another "breath of fresh
    air" that Ufologists having been working towards and
    literally praying for, for a number of years. I believe this
    is very significant as your letter is proof that the diligent
    efforts of Ufologists, although certainly divergent in
    nature, have been able to amass enough data or evidence to
    convince more scientists of your caliber that there is at
    least "some" substance to "some" of the things UFO
    researchers have been saying for years. As you have found,
    some of that evidence is indeed persuasive and that as you
    said; "It seems from my unique vantage point as both
    scientist and editor of JSE, that substantial evidence exists
    of "something going on."

>Your remarks concerning comments made by Daniel Goldin, the head
of NASA, at "the American Astronomical Society in San Antonio,"
as to how Ufology might some day earn enough respectability to
procure at least a portion of the "billions" which government
spends on research, hopefully will be thoughtfully received.

>As you have said "Goldin's lesson for NASA" apply to us as well.
It is important for us to remember that "If the American people
truly want the UFO problem officially investigated, the
government will do that by and by", and that "As Goldin urged us
to do on behalf of NASA's research: write, call, visit your
representatives and senators. Constituencies count. No doubt
about it." Some of these are being attempted in Ufology today.

>But, you also said Goldin made a second point that there is...

>>  "a second key ingredient that really needs to come first,
     is that somehow, the community of Ufologists must reach
     consensus on prioritizing projects," and that "those of us
     whose projects may not make the cutoff, owing to fiscal
     limitations, should still obligated as members of the
     research community to support those that are selected."

>JC:   Basically what is said here is that in collective unity,
there is strength. This is the incredibly difficult part for us,
unifying and agreeing as to who should lead this "crusade" and
what specific direction we should take as a whole.
>
>You have said;
     "Evidence needs to be properly analyzed and then properly
      presented using techniques and venues as close as possible
      to those of mainstream science. The disparity of the
      evidence appears to be confusing enough without layers of
      unproven theory and conspiracy."

>JC:   This is why researchers are attempting present the facts
as we see them and to inform more "scientists" of the data that
does presently exist so we can enlist their aid in achieving the
above. More of us need to realize it is only people with the
proper credentials and properly trained skills that can do this
for us the most successfully.

>The Internet has become a valuable aide in this endeavor. It is
helping us communicate with one another. This mail list is one
such forum which has been dedicated to bringing these facts to
anyone curious enough to find out more about this important
topic. Many thanks are owed its overseer, Errol Bruce-Knapp, and
the many people who are and have been contributing their time and
research to making this list a place where one can analyze and
collect other people's serious thinking on the subject. (J.C.
7/1/98  Certainly not to omit Glenn Campbell, who's magnificent,
important data base/storage facility makes handling the massive
volume of correspondence at least bearable.)

>Additionally, scholarly journals such as your own, material
published by the Center for UFO Studies (CUFOS), etc. are
gradually leading us in the direction you mention. Hopefully,
other newly interested "mainstream" Scientists, etc. may
gradually be able to glean enough information from these sources
to get them started on a path that will eventually achieve some
of the goals you have mentioned.

>You also make another very important point that should be
remembered by all:

>>  "To be fair to the principles of objectivity and
     comprehensiveness one must also acknowledge the possibility
     that the disarray of Ufology may be partially driven by
     official or semi-official disinformation, or even, taking
     the view of the respected researcher Jacques Vallee, by the
     UFO phenomenon itself."

>>  "Even if the UFO phenomenon should turn out to be deeper than
     we imagine, even should it prove to transcend science as we
     know it, the scientific approach is the only feasible way in
     the real, political, economic, technological world we live
     in to give us some chance to control our dealings with this
     phenomenon, rather than letting the phenomenon entirely
     control us... if such it is."

>JC:   This is all the more reason why researchers need to
continue their efforts in presenting the facts as they see them
and doing their best to draw other mainstream Scientists into the
fray.

>Thank you, once again for sharing your thoughtful insights with
all of us. This researcher certainly appreciates the valuable
time you have taken to do so. I am sure many others do as well.

>Respectfully, Jerry Cohen

>E-mail:  rjcohen@li.net

Again,

Dr. Haisch's original essay can be found at:
http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1996/dec/m27-006.shtml

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
JC:   Well done gentlemen. Onward!


UFO UpDates - Toronto - updates@globalserve.net
Operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp - ++ 416-691-0716

Archived as a public service by Area 51 Research Center which is
not responsible for content.

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   Jul > Jul 2

                            Alfred's Odd Ode #252

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 09:37:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 23:04:08 -0400
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #252

Apology to MW #252 (For July 2, 1998)

Two new mewling children have appeared upon the stage. Their
history is very long; you'd  think them wise or sage. But they
wallow in their filth to show their diapers must need changing,
and they smell -- exceeding squalid -- _choosing_ wasteful,
dumb, and failing.

They're popping off their phallic nukes for billions on the
shot, while shabby folk just have more kids; their noses run
with snot! They spend all their dust for the booms and the
sizzle; their people stand shoeless, and sick in the drizzle!
They're blowing the money on hidden explosions while the lives
of their people dissolve in corrosions!

They beat their chests, and shake their *sticks* -- while
children languish, starved and sick. Lost in thrall of
infantile, they shriek and strut, and smirk and wail. They
typify an ignorance. They promulgate their dissonance. Sold out
to their total waste, they have the gall to, still, tempt fate.

Just a couple squalling children, then, among so many others;
some into adolescence but the most in dirty diapers. Some will
spend their comfort, lost, to strut and preen like birds; will
scratch the ruined ground in vain, and take until it hurts. Some
will take the low road, and will murder in their war what their
ethics had produced before their warlord changed the score. Some
will make illegal all discussion that belies . . . the
*goodness* of your culture -- or your eye upon a sky.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

I wonder -- was there any reported UFO activity in either of
those two irresponsible, immature, and ignorant locations? I
point my finger fully realizing I point three back at myself,
but I digress . . . I'd have thought the situation would have
garnered a postulated ET's interest -- if _not_ concern. Is
there any news from that part of the globe? I recall no mention
in any of the digests here on Updates. If not -- is that odd?

<tapping the mike> Is this thing on?

Restore John Ford!


--
Explore the Alien View?

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake.







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   Jul > Jul 2

                          Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 23:54:17 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 23:54:17 -0400
Subject: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up




While listening to Wednesday night's 'Sightings', hosted by Jeff
Rense, this evening (thanks Bill) I caught the erudite Michael
Lindemann dropping a gem.

It seems that he ran into Jeff Sainio at the MUFON Symposium in
Colorado this past weekend. The reclusive Mr Sainio called up the
Mexico City footage of the 'Craft' going behind a large building,
on his computer and told Michael that he was absolutely in no
doubt that the footage was a hoax.

Michael also let listeners know that Jerry Glass had tracked the
source of the 'Most Stunning Case Ever' (over and around San
Bernadino, Southern California). Apparently a film crew were
flying a 'Special Effect'.....

The July 1st show is available at:

http://www.audionet.com/shows/endoftheline/archive.stm

Jeff and Michael work well together, every Wednesday night.
Michael will be reporting live from this years Roswell Fest and
doubtlessly will be giving Colorado, Roswell and several other
stories extensive coverage in the next issue of 'CNI News' - the
finest UFO newsletter available on the Net. You can get two free
issues by sending a request for same to CNINews1@aol.com





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   Jul > Jul 2

                      Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 98 10:26:38 PDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 23:58:56 -0400
Subject: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'


> From: RobIrving@aol.com
> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:53:42 EDT
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> >  From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
> >  Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'
> >  Date: Wed, 01 Jul 98 11:39:34 PDT

> >  Unfortunately, "belief" has been reduced in discourse and debate
> >  about anomalies into mere rhetoric. You used it in the context
> >  of the scoffer, who uses it in this sense (to borrow from David
> >  Hufford, who writes amusingly on the subject): "What I know, I
> >  KNOW; what you know, you only BELIEVE."

> That's not a fair reflection of what I think. It's just more
> rhetoric... more projection. I doubt that you could sensibly back
> it up with unvarnished examples.

Perhaps you would care to elucidate.  If you go back to
reread what specifically I was responding to, perhaps you
will better understand why I said what I said.

Let me put it this way:  Answer yes or no:  A reasonable
person, without recourse to mere belief (i.e., faith), can
look at the UFO evidence and see -- rightly or wrongly --
ossible evidence of extraterrestrial visitation.  A
yes answer will get you an apology from me.

> To more interesting issues...

> >  Is this statement based on anything other than his work with
> >  Dorothy Martin's group, with which I gather you are largely
> >  unfamilar?

> He doesn't specifically say. Although he does summarise the
> Martin study. In fact I am familiar with Festinger's work on her
> group (only in terms of having read the book a couple of times).
> My guess is that he had a 'thing' about flying saucer enthusiasts
> generally... for whatever reason, I don't know. All I said was
> that he enjoyed using them as an example in support of his
> theories.

There are several major papers refuting Festinger, whose
theories have failed replication.  (You might say, I guess, that
Festinger's prophecies have failed.)  As one critic writes, in
the course of showing why ideas like Festinger's are simplistic
and reductionistic, "As scholars we should approach religious
groups as phenomena to be observed and understood in
their own complexity, with at least as much respect for the
complexity and integrity of our subject matter as a biologist
or a physicist has for the phenomena of nature."

> >  > ~ 3. Another way of reducing dissonance between one's own
> >  > opinion and the knowledge that someone else holds a different
> >  > opinion is to make the other person, in some manner, not
> >  > comparable to oneself. Such an allegation can take a number of
> >  > forms. One can attribute characteristics, experiences, or
> >  > motives to the other person or one can even reject him or
> >  > derogate him. ~

> >  A pretty good description of the debunker mentality.

> I guess this works both ways. But usually when one is debunking
> all one has to do is focus on the bunk, rather than falsely
> characterize.

In theory, yes.  Having done my share of debunking and also
having viewed the debunking movement from pretty close range (I
have long been a good friend of the co-founder of CSICOP, and I
have known CSICOP's chief investigator, on a friendly basis, for
years), I think you are right in principle but naive about the
practice.

The problem is with those for whom debunking is a first
principle. It soon follows that those who don't share that first-
principle approach to controversial phenomena become bad people
who are not like us good rational people. Thus the rhetorical
excesses in which the debunking movement so colorfully indulges.
Thus the bizarre characterizations of dissenters I discuss in the
IUR editorial I mentioned in my previous posting (March/April
1992 if anybody's interested).

Another good paper on this subject, if you can find it, is the
Rockwells' "Irrational Rationalists," Journal of the American
Society for Psychical Research 72 (January 1978).  I write on the
history and mindset of the movement in "Skeptics and the New Age"
(in Melton, Clark, and Kelly's New Age Encyclopedia [Gale,
1990].)

> >  Ah, would that it were that important. Before I go any further
> >  with this, Rob, I want to point out that you are trying to avoid
> >  the big issue. You even deleted my reference to it, apparently
> >  thinking I wouldn't notice. No such luck. Let me ask you: which
> >  whopping historical error do Festinger, et al., make, a mistake
> >  bearing directly on their theory?

> No deliberate avoidance Jerry. I like a challenge. So, just to
> clarify the task, I have to read 'When Prophesy Fails' again and
> determine errors relating to which theory, the one concerning
> disconfirmation or that of cognitive dissonance?  You read the
> book two weeks ago, for me it's around four years. I'll look
> through it again and get back to you with an answer (or admit

> that I don't have an answer). Do I get a prize, btw?

> >  When you've done so, you can send me your regular mail address,
> >  and I'll send you Gordon Melton's paper "What Really Hapens When
> >  Prophecy Fails" (which, annoyingly, I now discover I've
> >  misfiled, after just looking at it a couple of days ago; well,
> >  I'll find the damn thing somewhere, and if not, I can ask Melton
> >  for another copy).

Found the paper in question and am now seeking to obtain some
others in the same vein (one of them, interestingly enough, by
Rob Balch, who did all the good scholarly work on The Two before
One [Applewhite] morphed into Heaven's Gate).

> That would be interesting, but no prize. A worthwhile prize would
> be the two-volumes of your encyclopedia, delivered to my door.
> That's if I pass the challenge. What's the forfeit if I'm wrong?

I'll ask my publisher to send you a review set if you get
the answer right.  What can you offer in return, if you
get it wrong?

> >  I am left wondering why, if Deutsch is such a brilliant guy, you
> >  chose such a knuckleheaded quote to cite.

> Kindly explain what is so knuckleheaded about it. You
> concentrated on the least important part, his reference to UFO
> enthusiasts, without dealing with its essential part; 'shoddy
> explanations that yield correct predictions are two a-penny...'.

I think I've already answered the question, Rob.  I have
explained what is knuckleheaded about it.  Please give me
a break.  There are all kinds of things I know little to nothing
about; ufology and ufologists are not among them.  Deutsch,
pardon the vernacular, doesn't know shit about either, if I may
judge from -- yes -- the knuckleheaded quote you cite.  As
for the sentiment about "shoddy explanations": well, of course.
It was Deutsch's ignorance and prejudice that I was
addressing, not his firm grasp of the obvious.  Look what
happened to John Rimmer recently when he tried to construct
a falsifiable version of the PSH.


> Don't like Deutsch?  Historian Felipe Fenandez-Armesto says much
> the same thing: '... trustworthy conclusions cannot be based on
> unverified premisses'.

Quite.  I hope he spelled "premises" right, though.

Cheers,

Jerry Clark









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   Jul > Jul 3

                              Lloyd Pye Lecture

From: Scott Jordan <sjordan@sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 17:51:23 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 00:35:27 -0400
Subject: Lloyd Pye Lecture

Dear List:

If anyone here is a regular listener of Art Bell you may have
heard of Lloyd Pye and his research into Zacheria Sitchen's work
and the hominids (Yeti, Bigfoot, Alma) as the indigenous species
of Earth.

Well my question is: If he were to Lecture in Toronto in August,
how many here would be interested in seeing his lecture ?

I am arranging a lecture tour and trying to gauge interest in the
Toronto area.

Please e-mail me at sjordan@sympatico.ca







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                              Filer's Files #26

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 16:54:02 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 00:31:44 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #26

Filer's Files #26-1998 MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer,  MUFON Eastern Director,
July 2, 1998, Majorstar@aol.com  609 654-0020

SCIENTISTS CLAIM UFOs MIGHT BE REAL AND DESERVE FURTHER STUDY

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- The first independent scientific review of purported
UFO sightings in almost 30 years has concluded that some unexplained physical
evidence warrants serious scientific study, the Washington Post reported in
its Monday editions.  The study by an international panel emphasized that it
had found no convincing evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence or any
violation of natural laws, the Post said.  But the panel cited cases of
intriguing and inexplicable details such as burns to witnesses, radar
detection of mysterious objects, strange lights appearing repeatedly in the
skies over certain places, aberrations in the workings of automobiles and
radiation and other damage found in vegetation.  The 50-page review was
released Monday in a publication of the Society for Scientific Exploration.
The society was established by Peter Sturrock of Stanford University, who
directed the inquiry.  The survey asserted that the scientific community might
learn something worthwhile if it overcame a fear of ridicule associated with
the topic and got some funding for targeted research, the paper said.  "It may
be valuable to carefully evaluate UFO reports to extract information about
unusual phenomena currently unknown to science," it quoted the report as
saying.  The Sturrock group said that thanks to strides in understanding and
technical capabilities, chances of significant understanding were greater now
than 30 years ago when the Air Force and the CIA supported a two-year
investigation.  That 1968 report concluded that "further extensive study of
UFOs probably cannot be justified in the expectation that science will be
advanced."

GEORGIA

John Thompson reports from Georgia that The Atlanta Journal Constitution
afternoon edition had as its front page headlines in one inch bold black type
about SSE scientists who are recommending study by other scientists on UFOs.
Seeing that one inch tall "UFO" at the top of the largest afternoon paper in
the South was really a shocker.  They followed up this morning with another
front page story--but not the headline--on a UFO poll showing  a majority of
the country now believes  it is possible that ET craft are visiting Earth.
Using quotes from old AJC articles in the '50s, '60s, and even '70s they
showed where the Air Force admitted this or that in their own newspaper back
then.  It is the most positive high-profile article I have ever seen published
in the AJC since I've been in Georgia (20 years). I don't know if this type
coverage will really lead to any help we need but it sure won't hurt.  I�m
hearing that similar coverage occurred in Chicago and around the country.

NEW JERSEY

Investigator Evelyn Galson that a Mullica Hill couple was traveling down Route
45 from Woodbury towards Mullica Hill on Saturday, June 13, 1998,  at 9:35 PM
when they spotted a UFO.  The wife looked towards the Gloucester County
Library as they passed by and noticed some strange lights in the  sky. There
were 3 or 4 red and blue, round         lights all in front like a straight bar.
  She
asked her husband,  "What is that?"  He couldn't look because he was driving
and he didn't answer her.  As she watched, the lights followed their car and
changed to all white lights.  She asked her husband, "Can a planes lights
change color?"  But he still didn't answer her.  When they finally arrived
home and pulled into their driveway, the object moved over the treetops to the
right side of their backyard and stopped.  She asked her husband,  "What is
that?"  Her husband said, "I don't know, maybe it's a helicopter."  He then
went into the house.  The wife walked to the backyard to get a better look at
the craft and noticed that there were no sounds coming from it.  The object
moved a little at a time, very slowly and finally reached the left side of
backyard just above their suburban home.  The UFO turned to a different
direction and she saw that the object was oval.  It was just hovering, barely
moving about 80 feet above the ground.  All of a sudden, the outside lights on
the craft were turned off, and lights came on the inside.  There were three
decks or three levels that lit up one after another.  You could see right into
the craft.  Later she noticed  three white lights underneath the craft towards
the outside.  They were positioned in a triangular pattern. She observed the
craft in the backyard for 10 to 15  minutes.  She said it was about the size
of a military helicopter, but three floors high.  She then went into the house
to call her daughter, because she wanted her daughter to see it.  When they
went back outside it was no longer visible.  The mother had trouble sleeping
that evening and was unusually tired the next morning, which was Sunday.  When
she got up to get ready to go to church, she noticed a bruise on her thigh
with three puncture wounds.  She did not have them the day before.  The craft
was viewed from 9:35 to after 11:00 P.M.  Thanks to Evelyn Galson

Daniel Rodriguez reports he and his father saw a UFO on Saturday, June 27,
1998, on Tonnelle Avenue between North Bergen and Fairview not far from Newark
Airport.  About 7:00 PM, they saw a craft that looked like half a pizza, with
lights on the pointy ends and one in the middle of the rounded edge.  The flat
portion of the craft was the front with the circular part in the rear.  It was
moving slow, but increased its speed.  The craft was the size of two cars laid
next to each other, or about a 40 foot wingspan.  The UFO flew off to the
west-southwest.  Other aircraft were observed in the vicinity, but no one
seemed to notice the UFO. Thanks to Daniel Rodriguez at UFOs here in E-mail
interview

MICHIGAN

Port Washington Bob Mueller reports that saw black helicopters fly over his
house on Saturday, June 13, 1998, and then again on Sunday. On both days, five
helicopters flew north and then came back a few hours later heading south.
They looked like UH-60 Blackhawks gunships with a capacity for about a dozen
troops apiece.  There were no markings, but those low-visibility paint schemes
make it tough to see.  Sunday night, at about 11:00 PM, I went out to my car
to get  something, and I saw a moving, flashing orange light very high in the
sky directly overhead.  When it flashed, it was very bright (so much so,  it's
reflection off my car/glasses caught my attention enough to cause me look
DIRECTLY up). It appeared to be moving in straight  line.  The UFO was heading
due North - the same heading (and along  virtually the same path) as the
helicopters.  I watched it for about 10  seconds, then ran inside to get my
wife Michele.  We came out maybe 30  seconds later, but by then it was gone.
Was a satellite catching the sun?  I wonder.  Thanks for the E-mail submission
from Bob Mueller.

CALIFORNIA

Roman Yerema reports he has taped many UFOs during May and June of this year.
Roman says he owns stock footage and specializes in military aircraft.  I've
been shooting aircraft for thirty years and never encountered anything that
resembled a UFO.  In May and June all hell broke loose.  You should see what I
have gotten on tape.  Give Roman a call if your interested at 800-677-5778,
13855 Belvedere Dr. Poway CA Thanks to ISUR and John Thompson.

Good quality video of a UFO was apparently taken near San Bernardino on June
16, 1998.  At 3 AM, Abel was delivering newspapers and saw a Green Fireball
with three smaller red objects near Highway 330.  Abel who is close to home,
races home and grabs his wife and a video camera.  He drove to 40th Street and
Del Rosa where he video taped a craft!  Two nights later at 9:05 PM, LeAnn,
her son and boyfriend return to the site where they saw the Fireball.  In the
trees they see the Green Fireball again.  The son says it's 200 feet across.
They video tape the object that has several smaller orange orbs.  First, she
tapes it on automatic, and when the object moves, they follow it and switch
video to manual.  They catch the object changing colors.  LeAnn reports (as do
all the others) the object was so bright, it hurt her eyes.  LeAnn played the
tape while I was on the phone and I could hear their interaction.  On Sunday,
Cinde Costello, fellow MUFON State Section Director and I will visit LeAnn and
Abel, see their videos, fill out MUFON reports, make copies of the tapes, take
site photographs,  pin-point map positions, then post the photos and data to
the web site ( http://www.neptune.net/mufon).  Following this, all the
witnesses involved have agreed to a joint meeting to corroborate their data.
Hosted by MUFON, it will take place at the residence of Bishop Donald, Jolly-
Gabriel, 1510 Yucca Street, San Bernardino, CA, on Friday, July 3, 1998, at
6:30 PM..  This historic meeting may be heard "Live" on Jeff Rense's
"Sightings" radio show, as well as being covered by television and by the
press.  To attend, contact Jerry Glass at:  jglass@pe.net or (909) 471-1194."
Thanks to Peter A. Gersten,

MONTREAL, CANADA

Saturday night, June 20, 1998, Kayla S. and her husband "were  sitting in our
backyard and watching the stars, because it was unusually clear and the
visibility was great. I was hoping to see a UFO but did  not really expect
it."  The couple, lives in a suburban neighborhood between Dorval and
Lachine, just south of Montreal, Quebec, Canada, watched the sky for a  while.
"Then, at around midnight," Kayla reported, "I screamed, 'UFO,  UFO! It looks
like something weird, honey.'"   "My husband and was also watching the strange
sight.  We both saw an L-shaped  formation that seemed to be made up of about
five different V-shaped  objects.  It could have been a flock of birds except
for the fact of the  speed they were going at. It traversed the sky in about
four seconds."   (Editor's Note: Four seconds from horizon to horizon equals
3,600 miles  per hour.)   "We lost sight of it because of the trees and the
houses and the speed  of it.  The color of each of the separate V-shaped
objects was a kind of  opaque grey, translucent almost.  If it hadn't been so
crystal clear that  night, then there was no way we would have ever been able
to see this."  She added that the UFO formation was "traveling due south"
towards the  Adirondack Mountains of the USA's northern New York state.  (E-
mail  Interview) Thanks to  UFO Roundup  #3-26  6/24/98 Joe Trainor  Editor

ASTRONOMERS DISCOVER PLANET #12 OUTSIDE OUR SOLAR SYSTEM

A planet bigger than Jupiter has been discovered and is just 15 light years
from Earth.  Geoffrey Marcy, who heads  a four-member team of San Francisco
State researchers,  announced the discovery at a scientific symposium in
Canada.  The finding was confirmed by a separate team in  Switzerland.  The
group found the planet, apparently a huge ball of gas  with a surface
temperature well below zero, using the Keck I telescope in Hawaii. Its huge
mass -- at least 1.9 times  bigger than Jupiter's -- was detected by a wobble
in the  motion of a nearby star, not by direct visualization. There is no
evidence of any solid land on the planet on which  earthlike life forms might
have developed.  Scientists say the planet is mostly hydrogen and helium with
a surface temperature of about 80 degrees below zero.  The planet was the
first to be found orbiting a small star called Gliese 876, one-third the size
of the sun.  The star is the closest to Earth -- other than our own sun --
around  which a planet has been found.  It is one of the closest  members of a
class of low-mass stars that are the most common in the Milky Way galaxy.  The
previously  closest-known "extrasolar" planet orbits a star about 35  light-
years away.  A light-year is 5.9 trillion miles, the distance light travels in
one year.  "It's not spitting distance, exactly, but spacecraft distance
perhaps for future generations.  Marcy added that the discovery of a planet
around Gliese 876 dramatically raises the odds that many  more planets may be
found relatively close to our own solar system. "Twelve such planets have been
discovered, including seven by Marcy and his associates in  the past three
years. Thanks to the Nando Times and Jack Beach jbeach@dmv.com

UFO PLASMAS

Dana Schmidt writes regarding last week�s files: "Are plasmas causing UFOs?" -
I object to the way you concluded that section.  You said, "Almost anywhere
there can be surprisingly strong electrical plasmas....that have been
generated by storms, within the earth or from man-made machines....Our brains
will attempt to make sense of any object in front of our eyes.  We can
interpret these electrical plasmas as UFOs."

George, this is as strong  a statement that UFOs are nothing but natural
plasma phenomenon as I have ever seen!  But that is clearly untrue, as plasma
will NOT generate structural features, aliens in windows, aliens on the
ground, etc.  And as far as "almost anywhere strong plasmas are generated by
storms or man machines," baloney.  I have NEVER seen any plasmas, and I have
watched many storms. I think you owe your readers an explanation.  Otherwise,
I might was well close up NY MUFON and simply inform all callers that it must
have been a plasma.  Thanks to Don Schmidt. dschmidt@cldx.com.
Editors Comment: Don�t close up shop, expand it instead.  I may not have made
it clear, but some 5 to 10% of UFOs reported in my opinion are some type of
plasma or orbs.  I have some good clear pictures of them in an abductee�s
bedroom and the sky.  I consider that some of these plasmas are a type of
Unidentified Flying Object (UFO).  Further, they may possess alien
intelligence and technology.  Some of these plasmas have even been observed
entering our atmosphere.  I know this may be hard to accept, but I have a
number of witnesses who claim to be in contact with these electrical plasma
type UFOs.  Remember, most abductees report seeing plasmas or orbs prior to or
during an abduction.  They also have scars that seem to have been caused by
plasmas.  We may be dealing with a very misunderstood form of natural
phenomenon or aliens who are completely different from what we can imagine.
These aliens may be an electrical magnetic energy life form.  I�m attempting
to enlarge our concept of alien life, it may be much different than any one
imagined.  The plasma UFOs may be an attempt to camouflage their craft or may
be the result of their technology.

KEVIN RANDLE AND ROSWELL PHOTOGRAPH CONTROVERSEY CONTINUES:
I have received numerous letters regarding the debris photos.  Two sides seem
to be developing.  Those who feel the debris is simply an Army Radar Reflector
and those who feel the debris involves much more, perhaps even alien wreckage.
Kevin Randle writes 6/21/98 regarding #20 files.  I might be able to help on
some of this since I spoke to Bond Johnson in 1989, and have recorded
interviews with him from that time frame.

Filer:>>I'm printing what Dr. James Johnson says.  To my knowledge he is not
going to  make any money with this and his motivation seems to be to clear
General Ramey's name.  I agree with that motivation.

Randle:  First, Ramey's name doesn't need clearing by Johnson or anyone else.
No one has said that General Ramey acted improperly.  He was doing his job as
ordered by higher headquarters and was eventually rewarded since he made major
general.  Second, while Johnson might not make any money, there are other,
powerful motives for actions.  He certainly is seeking the spotlight with his
claim of being the Roswell Photographer. He is, in fact, the Fort Worth
photographer, who took pictures of a weather balloon and radar target, which
are clearly visible.

Filer> >He claims there is wreckage in addition to the radar reflector that
was very odd.

Randle  He told me, originally, that all he saw was a weather balloon and
radar reflector.  He was told, at that time, by General Ramey it was a weather
balloon.  He didn't see anything other than a weather balloon and target.

Filer>> Also it smelled like something that had burned or exploded.  I don't
have the photographs to determine what he is talking about, but they have been
ordered.

Randle:  How are you going to determine, from photographs, how something
smelled?  I have seen the photographs and there is no evidence in them that
something has been burned or exploded.

Filer>>  Both Marcel's claimed they saw symbols on the materials in the field
and in the kitchen.

Randle>> The Marcel�s did but the symbols seen by them are not what is being
reported today.

Filer: Dr. Johnson claims the symbols are in the photos proving General Ramey
was not lying and the material had not been switched.  He handled the
material, claims he saw the markings, and did not know what it was.

Randle:  General DuBose said the material was not what had been found in
Roswell.  Marcel, looking at the photos said that it wasn't what he found in
New Mexico.  No one said that General Ramey was lying.  This is a straw man
erected by Johnson to further his own agenda.  He has only recently started
suggesting he handled the material.  Why the change in his story?  He only
recently began to talk of seeing symbols?  Why the change in his story?

Filer>He is alive and well.  He is a retired Colonel and minister, Ph.D., etc.
Why would he lie?

Randle:  The lure of the spotlight.  More importantly, his story as told today
is at odds with what he was saying in 1989... all of which is recorded on
audio tape, with his permission.

Filer>> If he is right it might solve this case once and for all.  My
experience has been that seldom would people of this caliber lie unless
ordered to do so.  There is always the possibility that he is simply mistaken
after he has been so closely questioned by so many people with so many
different agendas.   It's our job to prove this stuff is not "ALL" a Mogul
balloon train.  They brought in the weatherman and flew the stuff to Wright
Pat to determine its identity.  That seems consistent.  Of course, there may
have been a crashed craft on another field consistent with the other eye
witness testimony.  Perhaps I'm naive, but I assume people are telling the
truth the best they  can remember it until proven otherwise.  I've talked to
several people who were at the site and the testimony is generally consistent.

Randle   If I read this right, then you will accept the possibility that
Johnson has radically altered his story if I can prove that he has altered it.
If he told me, several times, on tape, that General Ramey told him it was a
weather balloon, in direct conflict with his claims today, then you would
grant that he is mistaken.  If he told me, several times, on tape, that he
wrote the July 9 story in the newspaper, which he now denies saying, then you
would grant that he is mistaken.  Johnson has entered the arena and has
cluttered it with incorrect information which he continues to spread.  He is
not going to help us prove that Mogul wasn't responsible.  He is, however,
going to provide the skeptics with everything they need to sink us if we don't
place Johnson's story in the proper context.  Remember, I have his original
statements on tape and they are in conflict with what he says today.  Worse,
Jesse Marcel, Jr. said that Johnson had put words in his mouth and taken his
comments out of context.  I thought you would want to know this.  Thanks to
Kevin Randle

Marilyn J Ruben writes in support of Johnson�s photos. No, it is absolutely
not a substance that was glued on. Under 8 x up to 16 x magnification the
surface is shiny and perfectly smooth.  It is a continuous and single surface.
It is as shiny as a polished metal.  That is why I am sure the designs are
engraved mechanically.  The shapes have perfect symmetry under magnification.
The balls at the edges of the letters are perfectly round.  The beam is not
wrinkled except along the edges or other places where it folds under, which as
noted previously, was caused by the crash impact.  I am sure the English
Professionals has already seen this as well.  The magnification does not lie.
It shows what the human eye can't see.  Thanks to Marilyn J Ruben.
Editors Note:  Bond Johnson has gathered together several important
researchers to examine his photographs.  Some claim they�ve found symbols and
other evidence not consistent with the Rawin radar reflector.  It appears the
controversy will continue and there is a possibility that further examination
of the photos might reveal some new data.  Have a nice July 4.

Please send your comments and letters to George A. Filer at Majorstar@aol.com.







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                  Re: Non-Sub. Post - 'Alien Recovery' Team

From: David Baker <davbak@globalnet.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 22:11:16 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 00:18:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Non-Sub. Post - 'Alien Recovery' Team


>Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 16:22:43 +0100
>From: dledger@ns.sympatico.ca (Donald  Ledger)
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Non-Sub. Post - 'Alien Recovery' Team

>> From: Concorp@aol.com [Name Not Known]
>> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 02:25:32 EDT
>> To: updates@globalserve.net
>> Subject: Alien recovery team

>> Ed Komarek of Thomasville,Georgia and Rob Bailey of Troy,
>> Michigan  have formed a recovery team to excavate 5 alien
>> skeletons from a remote glacial site located
>> near the Alaskan/Canadian border.

>> The skeletons were orignally discovered in 1938 by a member of a
>> police organization while searching for a missing person.Recovery
>> operations begin in July and members of the media and scientific
>> community will be apprised of the search results.

>Aw Geez...here we go again.

>Don


Dear Name Not Known,

I believe the episode of the X-Files you are referring to is the season 4
finale, "Gethsemene"....

Dave





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                         Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 98 12:44:20 PDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 00:14:02 -0400
Subject: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4


> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:57:57 -0500 (CDT)
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4

> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4
> >Date: Wed, 01 Jul 98 11:08:33 PDT

> <snip>

> >The weight of evidence, of course, is currently falling in
> >the direction of Swords and others who suspect the galaxy --
> >and the larger universe -- is densely populated.  All one
> >has to do is to read the newspapers; you don't have to go
> >to obscure scientific journals anymore to follow the argument.
> >The discovery that planets are apparently ubiquitous should
> >give heart to anyone sympathetically inclined to the ETH.

> No, Jerry, that is just the point. The weight of evidence *isn't*
> falling in Swords's direction, as you would know if you had
> thoroughly read and digested Davis's article in The Anomalist 5
> (and followed up on the 149 footnotes/references therein, as you
> are always urging others to do). Name any of the "others who
> suspect the galaxy -- and the larger universe -- is densely
> populated."

Don't you read the papers? Do I really have to go out and dig up
stuff that you already know is there? At least I HOPE you do, or
I don't know what you're doing here. Just, however, to be sure I
understand you correctly: are you saying that SETI scientists do
NOT "suspect the galaxy -- and the larger universe -- is densely
populated?" By "densely populated" I mean many hundreds of
thousands, or several millions, of intelligent civilizations.
Some, presumably, in our galactic neighborhood. Is it your
contention that this particular heresy is ufology's alone?

> Secondly, if the universe *were* as densely populated as you seem
> to assert here, then we would already have word of same from SETI
> -- ufologists need not apply.

What is the basis of this claim?

> Thirdly, there is no "discovery that planets are apparently
> ubiquitous," unless you've been reading other newspapers and
> sources than I have. To the best of my knowledge, about eleven
> giant gas planets have been *indicated* to date, a couple or
> three of which may have been more or less confirmed. But to refer
> to such huge masses, typically on a Jupiter scale, as even
> remotely possible sources of ET intelligence on your part, is

> disingenuous at best.

Oh, my. If I were you, I wouldn't be throwing around adjectives
such as "disingenuous" here when you're using this sort of
argument, if argument it is. (I can think of more colorful
characterizations.) Come back and talk sense next time, and
maybe we can discuss this productively.

> >If the galaxy is full of millions of advanced civilizations, we
> >ought to EXPECT to see them. If we don't see them or any
> >evidence of them, they likely don't exist, and the SETI program
> >is a big waste of time, money, and personnel, and all those
> >popular and academic books on intelligent life elsewhere
> >are destroying trees for nothing.

> I'm always amazed at the animosity shown by ufologists towards
> SETI. If I were a Freudian, I would suspect some sort of penis
> envy. After all, if SETI exhibited any success, wouldn't
> ufologists be the first to say I told you so!?

I am always amazed at the animosity shown by SETIans towards
ufologists. If I were a sociologist or philosopher of science,
or maybe a psychologist, I would suspect some species of
intellectual anxiety. After all, if ufology exhibited any
success, wouldn't SETIans be embarrassed as hell?

A witty and insightful piece on the irrational hostility of
SETIans toward ufology's ETH, together with a discussion of its
possible psychological foundations, is Don C. Donderi's "The
Effect of Conscious and Unconscious Attitudes About UFO Evidence
on Scientific Acceptance of the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis,"
JUFOS 1 (old series,1979): 35-40. Donderi, a McGill University
psychologist, uses his professional training to probe this
curious phenomenon.

And finally, a question: I'm curious. When was the last time you
took a pro-UFO position in any argument on this subject? Or is
that occurrence lost in the dim mists of antiquity?

Just wondering.

> >The point Dennis misses here, I think, is the one I have
> >attempted to make continually (not "constantly," Dennis),
> >albeit so far without any notable success: namely that,
> >contrary to what debunkers and Purely Speculative
> >Hypothesizers (if there is any longer a distinction) want us
> >to believe, the ETH is neither absurd nor indefensible.
> >Swords shows that the ETH can be defended using principles
> >embraced by many scientists writing and researching in
> >exobiology. You can determine that easily by reading this
> >literature for yourself. Swords does not go beyond that
> >observation, and neither have or do I.

Dennis has yet to acknowledge what you just read.


> And the point Jerry misses here is this: a 'densely" populated
> universe is still separated, one civilization from another, by
> immense distances, which involve gigantic expenditures in terms
> of energy and other resources, to surmount. Clark seems to say,
> hey, there's a lot of us out there, so interstellar travel should
> be a relative snap, even though it still takes us a couple of
> years to get to Mars, a planet within our own solar system.
>
> Clark also ignores the fact, which I raised, that the Swords
> argument actually *reduces* the density, i.e., number, of
> intelligent life forms capable of space travel, by imposing
> additional restrictions (atmospheric oxygen content ratio, etc)
> on same.

Oh, I see. So they can't get here from there, is that it? How, I
would like to know, do you know that? Remote viewing? Deeply
rooted faith? The conviction that the science and technology of
the late 20th Century will be the science and technology of the
late 30th Century?

> In other words, Clark seems to have overlooked one of the major
> implications of Sword's own theory: namely, that the universe can
> be densely populated, but only a very small segment of same will
> ultimately achieve space travel. Put another way: the latter is
> hardly a given, as Clark seems to believe.

Nor is it a given that at a certain stage of development, a
civilization -- or a whole lot of civilizations -- won't achieve
space

(and even intragalactic) travel. What's odd about arguments like
Dennis' is that he assumes that only ufologists, whom he seems
to regard as uniquely evil or something (otherwise why would he
attack only them for holding opinions that are not theirs
alone?) entertain these heresies. In fact, many of the
criticisms could be applied equally to anti-ETH SETI advocates,
but whenever somebody like me points that out, the Dennis Stacys
of the world go ballistic (or, more specifically and weirdly,
begin to ruminate about penis envy[!?]). A number, in my reading
of them, do not even dispute the possibility of ET visitation;
they just don't think it is happening at the moment. Dennis, I
gather, is arguing that it could never happen, or is so unlikely
that only dimwitted ufologists could consider the possibility --
which puts him at odds, of course, not just with pro-ETH
ufologists.

The subject of doable interstellar travel has its own
considerable literature among space scientists and engineers.
There is far from a consensus, as Dennis seems to want us to
believe, that travel through the galaxy will be forever
impossible. Maybe Dennis should go there with his arguments and
try to tell the nonufologists why they're wrong.

Which leads me to ask: what would you prefer, Dennis: an occult
explanation for puzzling UFO reports? Or a debunking one? Beyond
that, I confess that more and more I am at a loss to follow your
thinking on our subject. All I detect is an unrelenting
hostility to it.

> In addition, you can read the available scientific literature,
> Davis included, and find any number of scientists who disagree
> with Swords. So what determines your choice as to who's
> ultimately "right" or "wrong" in this matter? Prior disposition,
> I suspect.

And, of course, an acquaintanceship with the UFO evidence, which
is certainly suggestive in a number of intriguing ways of ET
visitation, as (for example) the late Clyde Tombaugh (you know,
the famous "believer" and pseudoscientist) remarked. Unlike
Dennis apparently, I don't consider the matter closed. I
consider it one requiring a lot more and much better funded
investigation before we know "who's ultimately 'right' or
'wrong' [why the scare quotes, by the way?] in this matter."

> Clark prefers Swords's description of the universe. Over the
> years, I've come to prefer Davis's.

As the great Ralph Stanley says, You go to your church, I'll go
to mine. I just hope that next time you attend services, you'll
hear a more compelling sermon. I have the distinct impression,
watching the deep convictions you exhibit based on what looks to
me like shaky foundations, that you are of a far more
fundamentalist disposition than I am. You might try a little
tolerance for ambiguity, my friend.

Cheers,

Jerry Clark








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   Jul > Jul 3

              Hubble Simulcast Links Outer Space To Cyberspace

From: Mark LeCuyer <randydan@wavetech.net>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 17:56:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 00:56:41 -0400
Subject: Hubble Simulcast Links Outer Space To Cyberspace


FOR RELEASE WEDNESDAY JULY 1, 1998

Contact:  Ray Villard
Space Telescope Science Institute, Baltimore, MD
410-338-4514

PRESS RELEASE:  STScI-PR98-24

HUBBLE SIMULCAST LINKS OUTER SPACE TO CYBERSPACE

Expanding its broadcast universe far beyond the Baltimore area
and into cyberspace, the popular WJHU radio program "The Marc
Steiner Show" (WJHU, FM 88.1), has teamed up with NASA's Space
Telescope Science Institute (STScI) to take listeners on a
Hubble Space Telescope tour of the cosmos via the Internet.

For the show's first time, host Marc Steiner's discussion and
interview with his guests will be available on the World Wide
Web, courtesy of STScI's Office of Public Outreach.

Even if people miss the July 7 live broadcast, STScI will make
the recorded program, with dazzling Hubble Telescope images
added, available on the Internet for space enthusiasts to listen
to in their leisure time.

The hour-long program's guests are Dr. Carol Christian and Dr.
Mario Livio from STScI, and IMAX/Planetarium director Jim
O'Leary from the Maryland Science Center, a popular Baltimore
Inner Harbor attraction.

The experts will describe the latest Hubble discoveries,
notably, recent observations of the spectacular and colorful
deaths of stars like our sun. The guests will also answer
listeners' questions over a broad range of astronomical topics,
and tell the story behind the headlines of some of Hubble's most
dramatic findings.

"My talk show tackles all sorts of intriguing topics, but
bringing Hubble results and even pictures to a worldwide
audience with commentary by leading Hubble astronomers is an
especially exciting opportunity," says radio host Marc Steiner.
"This is groundbreaking work for public radio, bringing you a
live broadcast with pictures and text during our conversation.
We are marrying the forms of media."

"The astronomers at STScI are enthusiastic about sharing the
dramatic imagery and latest science results from NASA's Hubble
Space Telescope through innovative ways on the Internet," says
Carol Christian, head of the Institute's Office of Public
Outreach.  "A simulcast with the Marc Steiner's program is a
great merging of broadcast radio with the Web."

For listeners to "tune in" via the Internet, they need a free
software package "plug in" called Real Audio. This software can
be downloaded into a home computer from the following URL:
http://www.real.com/products/player/index.html. Before the show,
listeners need to use their computers and Internet access to
reach the site, and follow the directions for downloading and
installing the software.

The program, which will be broadcast at 12 noon on Tuesday July
7, can be accessed on the internet at the following URL:
http://hubble.stsci.edu/steiner/

"After the show listeners will still be able to access the site
and log into any part of the discussion they want, hearing that
portion of the conversation, seeing the videos and photo's and
accessing documents," says Steiner. "Also we want to hear their
comments and critiques, and so listeners are welcomed to e-mail
us."

"The Marc Steiner Show" airs weekdays from noon to 2 p.m. on
WJHU, Baltimore's National Public Radio member station and a
radio service of The Johns Hopkins University.

The Space Telescope Science Institute is the research center for
conducting Hubble Telescope observations, and will also operate
the successor to Hubble, called the Next Generation Space
Telescope, to be launched in the year 2007.

END

From: Mark - Alien Astronomer
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583






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                        Sarah McClendon Press Release

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 01:25:47 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 01:03:14 -0400
Subject: Sarah McClendon Press Release

Received from "A. J. Craddock" , CSETI's webmaster.


Stig


*******

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 10:07:53 -0700
From: "A.J. Craddock" <webmaster@cseti.org>
To: webmaster@cseti.org
Subject: Sarah McClendon Press Release


July 1, 1998

From: Sarah McClendon
White House Correspondent

Washington, D.C. - Pressure is building up for Congress to give
attention to the controversy over unidentified flying objects.
With scientists from Stanford, MIT, Cornell, Princeton and
elsewhere studying UFO evidence, the controversy is now being
brought out into the open and heavy secrecy surrounding the
subject is being lifted. Seminars on UFO evidence are being held
periodically throughout the country with laymen discussing the
evidence without fear of being ridiculed.

When about 30 members of Congress or their staff heard a
briefing on UFOs in April of 1997, Rep. Dan Burton, R., Ind.
chairman of the Government Reform and Oversight Committee,
displayed some interest in the matter. His committee has
received a number of letters on the subject, according to staff
member Matthew Ebert. "These letters are treated seriously," he
said. Ebert thinks there is a possibility congressional hearings
will be held.

At a May 11 hearing on human rights documents pertaining to
Guatemala and Honduras held by the House subcommittee on
Government Management Information and Technology, its chairman
Rep. Steve Horn, R. CA, asked how the government classifies UFO
documents. The two witnesses, Lee Strickland, chief of the
Information Review Group of the Central Intelligence Agency and
Steven Garfinkle, director of the Security and Oversight Group
of the National Archives, both said they thought UFO documents
should be considered as public information.

There may be economic benefits from this emerging information.
Dr. Steven Greer, an emergency room physician, who for eight
years has briefed and been briefed by government and U.N.
officials on the subject of unidentified objects in U.S.
airspace, is convinced that the materials and technology of UFOs
carry enormous benefits. For example, he says their energy
creating apparatus does not use internal combustion.

Greer asserts the financial and environmental cost of exploiting
oil and gas to service 6 billion people worldwide can be
dramatically reduced. Large scale energy production derived from
UFO technology would reverse environmental damage and save
hundreds of billions of dollars annually in direct costs.

Dr. Greer is the International Director of the Center for the
Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence and leads a working team
of around 200 composed of CSETI members and associates,
government employee witnesses, consultants and government
contacts. Their hope is to get congress to hold hearings and
take testimony from witnesses. He has explained his conclusions
to a number of congressional members.

A national petition utilizing the Internet and calling for
congressional hearings was launched last year by another group,
Stargate International out of Tucson, Arizona. It has
accumulated 20,000 + names to be presented to congress. A
million signatures are sought.

Greer is aware that many employees of the government keep secret
facts which they have obtained about UFOs. He feels it is
unconstitutional for government to bottle up information of this
importance. He would like to see UFO's openly discussed and
covered widely in the press.

For some years the belief has been widespread there is in the
public domain a presidential executive order forbidding
government employees from talking about UFOs. Dr. Greer is not
aware of any such an executive order but indicated concern that
secret executive orders have been issued and not disclosed to
Congress or the public. Such secret orders would make it
difficult for people to learn more about UFOs. From the White
House it was learned that a check of executive orders going back
to the early eighteen thirties shows none has been issued on
this subject. Surprising is the growing number of citizens
showing an interest in finding out more about UFOs. Seminars are
being held around the country every week with as many as five
and six hundred in attendance.


202-483-3791 McClendon News Service, Inc. Fax: 202-328-1818

_________________________________________________________

Sarah McClendon is the Dean of the White House Press Corps

**********************************************************


The following is a March 30, 1998 Press Release on the subject by Ms.
McClendon

By SARAH MCCLENDON
WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT
March 30th, 1998

Washington, D.C. -- Unidentified Flying Objects, a term given
for many years to unexplained sightings of craft in the skies
over every state in the Union, are actual visitors from other
worlds, believe a community of scientists and technicians
employed by government.

The real danger to the U.S. and perhaps this whole planet is the
government has placed such a heavy blanket of secrecy upon this
issue. So much secrecy, those in government who have knowledge
showing UFOs are identifiable feel the subject cannot be
discussed by those in the know without serious repercussions.
Others are afraid their friends and co-workers will think they
are crazy if they even so much as insinuate that UFOs are
identifiable as manned craft from outside the earth. This
particularly applies to newspaper editors and publishers,
reporters and analysts. Thus the U.S. is denying itself the
chance to learn more about UFOs or to encourage research despite
the fact the U. S. stands to gain from such discussions.

Not publicized but true is that the Clinton administration, soon
after coming to office, had many briefings on the subject.
Laurance Rockefeller provided the information for the President
and Mrs. Clinton. Others provided documents and verbal briefings
to presidential advisors Jack Gibbons (science), Bruce Lindsay
(personal), Anthony Lake (national security) and Vice President
Albert Gore. About the same time a three hour briefing was given
by Dr. Steven Greer to the sitting Director of the CIA, Admiral
Woolsey.

Subsequently, Clinton instructed Webster Hubbell, when naming
him to the position of Associate Attorney General at the Justice
Department, that he wanted him to investigate and report back to
him on two things, circumstances surrounding the death of
President John F. Kennedy, and the existence of UFOs. Hubbell,
despite his position and the presidential imprimatur, was boxed
in at Justice Department and never was able to find out. All of
this was disclosed in Hubbell's memoir Friends in High Places.

Now the lid on UFOs is gradually coming off. There is a national
drive underway to get one million signatures on a petition
calling for an open Congressional hearing for government
employee witnesses. Dr. Steven Greer, Director of the Center for
the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence (CSETI), devotes most
of his time seeking disclosure of government evidence proving
the existence of craft manned by non-humans. Another who feels
that positive proof exists within government, is Lt. Col. Philip
J. Corso (retired), who reveals in a recent book, The Day After
Roswell, that he was in charge of the Roswell files during his
tenure as head of the Army's Foreign Technology Division. He
states unequivocally that these files confirm the crash which
occurred at Roswell, New Mexico was an alien space craft. This
completely refutes the Air Force denials and subsequent
explanations. Corso says that the crashed vehicle was studied
and proved to be manufactured of materials unknown as to source
and usage in this country. In time, he says, this and other UFOs
provided technologies which were "worked into the commercial
world via front companies." Incidentally he vouches for the fact
that this has proven to be a valuable contribution to U.S.
aircraft design and other commercial products.

After the Roswell incident, the Air Force replied to reporters'
inquiries that this was all part of research using weather
balloons and other equipment. Corso and hundreds of others who
work or have worked in secret defense and scientific agencies,
are willing to swear under oath that alien craft are repeatedly
penetrating our airspace.

Whenever the military agencies are asked to look into this
matter further, the answer is always the same - "We do not
investigate UFOs."

Contact:

McClendon News Service
202-483-3791
202-328-1818 fax


------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
----






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                  Mysterious Flashes And Iridium Satellites

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 21:40:46 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 01:43:06 -0400
Subject: Mysterious Flashes And Iridium Satellites

Hi everyone!

Below is part of an article written by a past neighbour and
fellow RASC amateur astronomer, Terence Dickinson. The article
is from the July/August 1998 issue of SkyNews, The Canadian
Magazine of Astronomy and Stargazing of which Terry is the
editor. Many ufologists will already know him as the author of
The Zeta Reticulli Incident article in Astronomy magazine which
caused a big stir a few decades ago when the home base of
certain Earth visiting aliens was identified.


NEW SATELLITES FLASH THE SKIES

A giant constellation of 66 Earth- orbiting satellites, each
the size of two large refrigerators stacked atop one another, is
now in position 780 kilometres above the Earth's surface. The $6
billion Iridium project, operated by commu- nications giant
Motorola, is the largest commercial space venture ever mounted,
yet it remains virtually unknown to anyone outside the aerospace
industry.

After a brief testing period, the satellite network will bring
into service in September the first global cellular- type
wireless phone system. Since at least one of the 66 satellites
will be near overhead at any given time, Iridium subscribers
will be able to call any- where in the world without placing the
call through the local telephone company.

<snip>

In addition, the satellites' highly reflective transponder
antennas - each about the size of a standard household door -
produce brilliant flashes as the satellites pass overhead. The
flashes are relected sunlight and, to the naked eye, look like
bright stars that appear out of nowhere, then quickly fade. They
can become brighter than Venus for a few seconds. Amateur
astronomers have been enjoying watch- ing for these Iridium
flashes, but the novelty may wear off in a few months.
Predictions are available on the Web at:

http://www.gsoc.dlr.de/satvis/

During annual meteor showers there is always the rare chance of
observing a meteor that is heading almost directly at you. This
meteor will also appear as a flash which will usually last for a
fraction of a second (not many seconds as with the Iridium
flashes) and will rarely be as bright as Venus, the third
brightest celestial object in the sky next to the Sun and Moon.
One excited amateur astronomer friend of mine once saw flashing
lights in the sky that changed directions frequently. I pointed
out to him that the flashes of light which he thought were UFOs
in the distance were in fact nearby fireflies.

Go to the Web site above, note the times of the next Iridium
satellite flashes and try to observe them. Some of these
flashes, which will now occur regularly (more common than
firefly sightings too?), may even be reported as UFOs.

Nick Balaskas










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               Re: Burning Gas In Tornadoes Causes Many UFOs?

From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 22:08:08 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 01:46:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Burning Gas In Tornadoes Causes Many UFOs?


In a message dated 98-07-02 09:56:24 EDT, you write:

>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 03:24:36 +0200
>Subject: Burning Gas Inside Tornadoes Cause Of Many UFOs?


>A new theory advanced by a University of Canterbury scientist suggests
>many unidentified flying objects are balls of burning gas trapped
>inside tornadoes.

>Researcher Peter Coleman said his theory, published in a book, Ball
>Lightning: A Scientific Mystery Explained, could apply to the Kaikoura
>UFO sightings of 1978 and 1979, the Tunguska explosion in Siberia in
>1908, human combustion, and numerous types of mysterious lights in the
>sky.

>According to the theory, ball lightning is produced when natural gas in
>the atmosphere is caught in a vortex, then ignited by an electrical
>charge such as conventional lightning or static electricity.

>"If you had a tornado and you had a flame inside you would expect it to
>blow out but there is a property called vortex breakdown that allows
>the flame to survive in this high air speed environment. The vortex
>bursts and creates recirculation like an eddy in a stream which allows
>reduced air flow or stagnant air.

This person clearly knows very little about tornadoes. He seems
to be saying that people are reporting UFOs inside same. To my
knowledge, the only report that comes close is one of two
wherein a witness was able to look up inside a tornado as it
passed over. The witness described a shimmering cloud partway up
the funnel, whose sides did not contact the rotating walls. This
could have easily been accounted for by visible condensation
(tornadoes often have several distinct "walls") being
illuminated by light filtering in through the sides of the main
funnel. That doesn't even remotely sound like any of the ball
lighting reports with which I am familiar. In fact, I know of no
reports of ball lighting being reported in or near
tornado-producing storms (tornadoes themselves being relatively
rare). I just don't see the connection.

Additionally, ball lighting has been reported to pass through
electrically conductive materials, such as aircraft skin
(aluminum), and non conductive ones, such as glass. Apparently
they left their parent vortices outside to go in and have a look
around. Can natural gas be ionized, and would that change its
state sufficiently enough to allow it to pass through relatively
solid matter?

I know that plasma is one of the theories, but this guy seems to
be saying that the natural gas is merely on fire. If that were
the case, one would think the gas would be used up in short
order. There is also the matter of BL's apparent bouyancy. If it
were on fire, would it still remain dense enough to keep it from
rising up, or rather from having the cooler, denser surrounding
air slip underneath?

>It is like turning on your stove," said Mr Coleman, who has
>demonstrated the effect in his laboratory using a vacuum
cleaner, >pipes, and a camp stove.

I don't know....maybe I shouldn't argue with a man who sets
natural gas on fire inside a pipe with a camp stove and a
vacuum.

Greg

Strmnut@aol.com






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                         Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4

From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 22:25:12 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 01:49:16 -0400
Subject: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4


>Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:57:57 -0500 (CDT)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4

>>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4
>>Date: Wed, 01 Jul 98 11:08:33 PDT

<snip>

>>If the galaxy is full of millions of advanced civilizations, we
>>ought to EXPECT to see them.  If we don't see them or any
>>evidence of them, they likely don't exist, and the SETI program
>>is a big waste of time, money, and personnel, and all those
>>popular and academic books on intelligent life elsewhere
>>are destroying trees for nothing.

>I'm always amazed at the animosity shown by ufologists towards
>SETI. If I were a Freudian, I would suspect some sort of penis
>envy. After all, if SETI exhibited any success, wouldn't
>ufologists be the first to say I told you so!?

Gentlemen, If I may interrupt for a moment:

Mr. Stacy,

Animosity and/or envy are, IMO, justifiable in the case of SETI.
That project has been the proud recipient of millions dollars in
funding, and has, to my knowledge, never had to produce results
to maintain that funding. Ufology on the other hand, has
generally had to scrape and scrounge and fight every step of the
way for funding. And yet, Ufologists are somehow expected to have
all the answers to the UFO mystery!

Besides, what do you do with a ten thousand year old signal
anyway..... respond to it?

Greg

Strmnut@aol.com









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                      Anthony Lake Denies UFO Briefing

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 01:38:57 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 01:38:57 -0400
Subject: Anthony Lake Denies UFO Briefing




From: UFOMind Mailing List Archive
http://www.ufomind.com/misc/1998/apr/d17-001.shtml

Anthony Lake Denies UFO Briefing

 From: Bob Durant <70232.17@compuserve.com>
 Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 08:36:06 -0800


On March 30 Washington columnist Sarah McClendon published a
report claiming, among other things, that "a community of
scientists and technicians employed by the government" believe
UFOs "are actual visitors from other worlds." Her report has
received wide distribution on the Internet.

  [See http://www.ufomind.com/people/m/mcclendon/#1]

McClendon states that a number of senior Clinton advisors
received UFO briefings. Among those named officials is Anthony
Lake, who served as the President's National Security Advisor.
Lake was nominated for the position of Director of Central
Intelligence, but his nomination was withdrawn in the face of
Republican opposition. He resigned from public life, and now
teaches at Georgetown University.

On April 14 Lake delivered the annual George W. Ball Lecture at
Princeton University. I attended the lecture, and approached him
after the talk to ask about McClendon's report. The following is
a transcript of our short but unambiguous conversation.

Durant: Two weeks ago Sarah McClendon, a Washington reporter,

Lake: Right, right

Durant: wrote a real fire burner about UFOs. And she indicated
that this was taken very seriously by the Clinton
administration. Your name was mentioned in it, as somebody
having received a briefing on this topic. Do you know anything
about this?

Lake: This is very highly classified. But if you looked at
Independence Day, the contact with the space aliens, the
description of the aliens is just about perfect. No, that's just
nonsense. Absolute nonsense. I never got a briefing. There is
no, what, what is it, Roswell. Unless, I never heard of Roswell,
in fact, until I was on the Diane Reems (sp?) show about a year
ago, and a caller said, so are you going to tell us about
Roswell, Roswell and what's it called, 51 or 52?

Durant: Area 51

Lake: Oh, Area 51. I never heard of it, and so I went back to
the Air Force and said, what's this all about? And they denied
it. Maybe they lied to me. This is nonsense. And I think the
explanation is, uh, I can't remember now, it may have had
something to do with satellites, reconnaissance, going over,
flights, planes going over that convinced people something was
happening. Now, the problem is, as I said on the Diane Reems
(sp?) show, I never heard about this, I don't know about this.
You can either conclude, one, that I'm lying to you, or two,
that I'm naive and nobody ever tells me anything, or three, that
I'm telling the truth. All I can do is tell you what the truth
as I know it is. But Independence Day was a good movie!

Durant: OK, gotcha. Thank you.

Earlier in the day, a colleague of mine telephoned Sarah
McClendon to inquire about her source for the claim about Lake's
UFO briefing. She was unable to answer that question at the
moment.

Robert J. Durant
15 April 98

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                          UFOs not worthy of study?

From: Joe Murgia <Ufojoe1@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 19:50:48 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 01:20:55 -0400
Subject: UFOs not worthy of study?


I think some of the more eloquent, detail orientated
people on this list should write a response to this
editorial from the N.Y. Post. Bruce Mac. and
Stanton Friedman immediately come to mind
among others.


Editorial email - letters@nypost.com


>From N.Y. Post Online Editorial

http://www.nypostonline.com/070198/editorial/2874.htm


THE TRUTH ISN'T OUT THERE


----------------------------------------------------------------

"Panel Urges Study of UFO Reports," ran the front-page headline
in Monday's Washington Post. According to that Post, an
independent scientific review directed by a Stanford physicist
said that UFO sightings need serious study. The implication: The
UFO industry has now received the intellectual backing of
serious scientists.

But the sad fact is that The Washington Post has been taken for
a good long ride by one of the more superficially respectable
organizations on the lunatic fringe - an association for the
sort of credulous academic who overdosed on science fiction as a
teen-ager, is a sucker for ESP and Eastern mysticism and is
drawn to the kind of crank who claims that Martians built the
pyramids.

The source of this extraordinary story was the "Society for
Scientific Exploration." The group has put out papers on
"Atlantis and the Earth's Shifting Crust," "The Message of the
Sphinx," "Reincarnation and ... Birthmarks" and one of our
favorites, "Severe Birth Defects Possibly Due to Cursing."

It is all very well to search for explanations for mysterious
crop circles or strange lights in the sky. But nowadays UFOs and
ESP have replaced demonic possession as a superstitious way of
explaining phenomena that are otherwise hard to understand.

Why would actual science professors put their name to a report
like this? Well, there are a lot of scientists in the world and,
not surprisingly, a small number of them are given to wild
fancies. Many truly extraordinary scientists can be completely
"out there" when it comes to subjects other than their own area
of expertise. Sir Isaac Newton was devoted to alchemy; Michael
Faraday, the great theorist of electricity, was a member of an
extremely bizarre religious sect. William Shockley, the father
of the transistor, believed a lot of racist nonsense about IQ.

But what about The Washington Post? All it would have taken for
the newspaper to realize that this announcement did not come
from a serious, respected scientific organization was a quick
search for the SSE on the Internet (www.jse.com). But maybe
something else is going on here. It is very common to hear
supposedly educated, rational peopleproclaim their belief in all
sorts of wispy magic, from crystal power to astrology to curing
AIDS by the laying-on of hands.

One explanation for spreading credulousness among Americans is
the deepening ignorance of basic science among members of the
liberal professions. Even as our technology becomes more
sophisticated, more and more people have no understanding of
scientific method or even the kind of basic science behind the
internal-combustion engine.

Another explanation is the powerful appeal of New Age claptrap
to Baby Boomers who long ago lost the religious and political
ideals they grew up with. Such people are prey to all sorts of
superstition. Faith in "alternative medicine" - some of it
sensible, most of it pure snake oil - is now so common that many
people are as likely to trust a popular witch doctor as their
MD.

This partly came about because doctors and scientists oversold
themselves and their abilities during the '50s and '60s. But
just because real scientists cannot explain everything or cure
every disease, there is no cause for 20th-century Americans to
turn to superstitions like frightened savages in the primeval
forest.

The SSE's UFO platform is based on a big lie. That lie is that
scientists have never taken UFO claims seriously for fear of
ridicule - or because of a government conspiracy right out of
"The X-Files." The truth is exactly the opposite. UFO
"sightings" have been exhaustively investigated by genuinely
open-minded people over and over again.

And despite the successful efforts of the UFO industry to
convince millions of people otherwise, there is no - repeat no -
credible evidence of space aliens visiting the Earth in
suspiciously Hollywoodesque flying saucers. And the case for
little green men making landings all over the farm belt in order
to kidnap and then have unusual sex with random hicks in pickup
trucks is even more ridiculous.

When a sophisticated civilization starts to nourish weird cults
and an obsession with magic, it is a sign of a retrogressive
sickness that can be fought only with sweet reason and an appeal
to true religion, not false idols.





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                            Two 'New' UFO Crashes

From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 23:04:32 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 01:51:43 -0400
Subject: Two 'New' UFO Crashes

To anyone interested:

Here is a report I feel confident none of you have heard. It
was investigated initially by Ray Fowler when he worked with
NICAP.

Several years ago, I heard that in the seventies a UFO had
crashed into a nearby "swimming hole" known as Rainbow Lake here
in Derry NH, (USA). I took that report with substantial NaCl,
but then later saw reference to it in a book about "local
mysteries". So, I went to the library and did some micro
ficheing. Since I had no specific date to go by, I started from
1970 and worked my way through piles of newspaper film until I
found the story. I'm paraphrasing here since I can't find the
photocopy, but here is the gist of it:

On Oct. 10, 1973, more than twenty witnesses saw two glowing
disks descend from the sky. Both hovered momentarily above
Rainbow Lake, then one dropped into the water, making an audible
splash and a series of waves. The remaining disk lingered
briefly, then shot back into the sky. The police were contacted,
and subsequently divers from the local fire department were
called in. They searched the water, but reported near zero
visibility due to the cloudy, murky conditions. Dragging the
bottom with nets was considered, but apparently dragging for
UFOs was not included in the small-town fire dept's budget, and
no further searches were conducted.

I have been to the site, and it is not a particularly large body
of water. In fact, "pond" would describe it more adequately. It
is perhaps two to three hundred yards wide, and nearly circular.
It may be artificial. I have not spoken to any of the witnesses,
but have spoken to a few folks who recall the excitement
generated by the event.

I must admit, I watched with bemusement as Paramount's Sightings
covered the recent searches off the coast of Nova Scotia as
teams looked through hundreds of square miles of ocean for the
object purportedly seen there a few years back. Perhaps they
would have had better luck down the road a bit from my house!
There are no reports of the object leaving, after all.

If anyone would like copies of the original articles, let me
know and I'll find them or just go make more.

Greg

Strmnut@aol.com






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                         Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 98 22:07:07 PDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 01:59:43 -0400
Subject: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4


> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4
> From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:20:36 -0400
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> >Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 07:53:52 -0400
> >From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4
> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> > I agree that having "ten best cases" or 5 or 1 or 100 would be
> > valuable. We should attempt to find at least one case that the
> > majority of contributers can agree remains UNEXPLAINED AFTER
> > EVALUATION and, furthermore, APPEARS THAT IT WILL REMAIN
> > UNEXPLAINABLE IN THE FUTURE, where explanation is in terms of
> > known phenomena (e,g.,explaining a UFO as ball lightning is
> > explaining one unknown with another).

> This idea is interesting as far as it goes, but some ground rules
> would need to be set:

> You can see how hard this might be. The debunker will insist
> that they be allowed to reject any item of testimony they object
> to on grounds of a priori unbelievability, that any number of
> low probability events be acceptable, that a low threshold of
> proof for claiming a witness a hoaxer is essential, that
> multiple witness reports are no more evidential than single
> witness reports, and that the only acceptable trace evidence is
> a component of clearly non-terrestrial origin.

In the above and what followed in the original (which I've
deleted simply so that this will be readable), Mark anticipates
the by now well-worn rationalizations debunkers (and PSHers,
assuming there is a meaningful distinction between the two any
longer) will use not to have to come to grips with anything they
can't bear to deal with. His words came to mind this evening as
I happened to be going through my "Anomalies and Science" file,
reading papers here and there. One I happened to reread was an
old favorite, David J. Hufford's "Reason, Rhetoric, and
Folklore: Academic Ideology Versus Folk Belief" (New York
Folklore 11, 1-4 [1985]). It speaks to what Mark is addressing
here.

First, though, a word of explanation. Prof. Hufford is using
such terms as "religious experience" and "supernatural belief"
in the broad way anthropologists use them, and in fact later in
the essay he is specifically critical of such usage. By
"religious experience" he means generally of phenomena that
suggest nonmaterial realities (life-after-death experience,
encounters with apparitions) and by "supernatural belief"
anomalous experience (including UFO sightings) generally:

"The high social position and numerous rhetorical advantages of
the academic opponents of the supernatural have resulted in a
scholarship that has assimilated data to existing intellectual
structures while maintaining those structures as rigidly as
possible, preventing their accommodation to novel input. A
shift, for example, from psychopathological to social
explanations of allegedly non- empirical and irrational beliefs
and hallucinations may give the appearance of accommodation, but
in view of the growing body of data concerning the nature and
distribution of the religious experiences of ordinary persons,
it can be seen as assimilation with a vengeance. The result is
what Thomas Kuhn has called `normal science' in its most mundane
form, and it guarantees a rapid accumulation of anomalies that
seems already to have passed the critical point. As Kuhn
predicted of such periods, this state has made the study of
religious experience and supernatural belief increasingly
convoluted, trivial, and dull for those committed to the
ideology of the status quo, while the most interesting and
exciting work tends to be that which is most resisted by the
academic establishment. This is one reason that folklorists have
been so little involved with central issues of this subject;
there is a limit to how many times one can explain the naive
irrationalism of one's informants, while simultaneously alleging
their dignity and native intelligence, and espouse a universal
relativism that is at direct odds with one's own implicit
epistemology, before cognitive dissonance and boredom combine to
send one on to more pleasant occupations."

In a lighter though no less telling vein, I found this paragraph
in a paper by sociologist of science Ron Westrum:

"Is there any reason why the existence of anomalies should prove
pleasant or unpleasant to scientists? We must admit that there
is. Science as an institution has a strong vested interest in
maintaining anomalies in a deviant status since it has so often
argued that they should be disregarded. Anomalies, along with
deviant scientific systems, have come under repeated heavy fire
from the guns of science. To admit the existence of an anomaly
is to admit that the previous shooting was not only unnecessary,
but possibly harmed an innocent victim. Such an admission would
be, in other words, acutely embarrassing for science."

Jerry Clark









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                Re: Mag 1/4 -- Comments on Trindade Isl. 1/2

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 23:54:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 02:27:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Mag 1/4 -- Comments on Trindade Isl. 1/2


>Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:24:12 -0400
>To: " UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net>
>Subject: Mag 1/4__Comments on Trindade Isl.1


>Greetings Peter & list members,

>It is hoped the following regarding the Almirante Saldanha UFO
>sighting off Trindade Island is in keeping with Bruce Maccabee's
>sentiments regarding decreasing philosophical discussion and
>rather, digging in and getting to the nitty-gritty within
>various cases.

Great, Jerry. Glad to (a) see that someone actually reads my
messages and (b) is willing to try to get some "real work" done
by members of this list.

Unfortunately I cannot be of much help in this case since' I have
no information that is not available in th general literature.  I
wonder why no one in Brazil...at least none that we have heard
of, has tried to dig up some of the witnesses.

Note: Baruna was interviewed about 10 years ago, I believe and
the interview was published in IUR.(Jerry could probably name the
particular issue.)






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                        Re: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up

From: Joe Murgia <Ufojoe1@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 00:39:52 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 02:31:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up

>Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 23:54:17 -0400
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up

ebk wrote:

>It seems that he ran into Jeff Sainio at the MUFON Symposium in
>Colorado this past weekend. The reclusive Mr Sainio called up the
>Mexico City footage of the 'Craft' going behind a large building,
>on his computer and told Michael that he was absolutely in no
>doubt that the footage was a hoax.

Lindemann also said that Jaime (sp?) Maussan is willing to
consider this but Maussan can't get by the credibility of the
teenage girl Cassandra who claims she saw the craft and her
Father didn't believe her and called her a liar. He allegedly
believed her when J.M. came calling. The Father tells same
story. Supposedly Cassandra didn't watch the show where Maussan
debuted the video. Of course, this is impossible to prove.

There were also other witnesses including a young boy. Are they
all lieing? What a sad world if they are. And what a terrific
bunch of liars because I saw the interviews and these people
seemed credible. Some were professional people from the area of
where the sighting or hoax took place if that's what
it is.

How reliable is Sainio? Who is he?

Joe in Tampa






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                          Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #252

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 04:13:35 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 04:15:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #252

>Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 09:37:36 -0500
>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #252

>Apology to MW #252 (For July 2, 1998)

>Two new mewling children have appeared upon the stage. Their
>history is very long; you'd  think them wise or sage. But they
>wallow in their filth to show their diapers must need changing,
>and they smell -- exceeding squalid -- _choosing_ wasteful,
>dumb, and failing.

One of the local news broadcasts ran a piece about how
the Pakistani's actually contemplated -USING- nuclear
weapons against India during this recent round of sabre
rattling. Isn't that kind of thinking symptomatic of full
blown psychosis? Murder on that scale is unthinkable to
any sane person. Yet, "leaders" of whole nations get away
with it and in fact are sometimes put into power _because
of_ their psychotic rantings and propositions.

People think we're crazy because we talk about aliens
and UFOs. The real whacko's (the dangerous ones) are
-running- the assylum! If we don't 'sane up' real quick
our children and our grandchildren won't have the luxury
of living out their lives to a natural end. That will be taken
care of for them. We have to take responsibility to insure
a future for them and all succeeding generations. We have
to stop living like we're the last generation or we will be!

>I wonder -- was there any reported UFO activity in either of
>those two irresponsible, immature, and ignorant locations? I
>point my finger fully realizing I point three back at myself,
>but I digress . . . I'd have thought the situation would have
>garnered a postulated ET's interest -- if _not_ concern. Is
>there any news from that part of the globe? I recall no mention
>in any of the digests here on Updates. If not -- is that odd?

I wouldn't be surprized if activity was up because of the
blasts. Bottom line though is that we gotta save ourselves!
I for one, ain't waiting around to be "saved" by aliens. I
learned a long time ago that Life is a self-help program.

Abductees die from cancer, (ie; Dr. Karla Turner,) heart
attacks, and all manner of natural causes with no apparent
intervention or concern shown by their lifelong captors.
Foo fighters may have 'watched' battles during WWII or
Viet Nam but they never 'stopped them.' Hitler killed millions
of Jews and Gypsies, we nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki,
millions continue to die at the hands of others daily. Just
look at the fairly recent mass murders in Africa, the
ongoing and unchecked genocide in Bosnia etc. The aliens
could have interceded on behalf of poor insane and suffering
humanity at anytime throughout our long, bloody history.
The 'fact' is, they haven't.

Doesn't matter if UFOs are watching, they won't interfere.
I honestly believe that if China, India, Pakistan, the US and
Russia all launched their nuclear warheads at each other
simultaneously that our "visitors" would probably just watch
in awestruck wonder and contemplate the magnitude of our
collective stupidity and the profound depth of our suicidal
tendencies and self-destructive psychosis.

><tapping the mike> Is this thing on?

Yeah brother, I hear you. I hope others do too, for all our
sakes. If _we_ don't do it, the evidence points to the fact
that "They" sure as hell won't come down and do it for us!

"Stop the insanity!"

John Velez








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   Jul > Jul 3

                          Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #252

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 06:15:32 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 09:59:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #252


>Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 09:37:36 -0500
>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #252

Dear Mr.  Lehmberg:

I have been cataloging UFO sightings for nearly 20 years now.

I have pillaged the personal libraries of UFO people who go back
decades before I ever started... all to get what I consider the
best UFO cases on record, in reasonably large number and
quality.

The fact is that few useable UFO reports ever emanated from India
and Pakistan, and that is much the case today.

If two or three came in tomorrow, it would be like the ice cream
vendor who "doubled his staff in one week" (He hired his wife.)

I'm sure there are plenty of sightings on the Indian
sub-continent but they just don't "get out" where we can study
them. This is due (I suspect) to cultural, religious, political,
and other ethnological reasons... compounded by horrid
governments and communications facilities of equal merit.

I like your idea of comparing sightings, before and after atomic
testing. I just don't think it will work in countries so
retrograde as to conduct 1950's style atomic tests in 1998.

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch


> Lehmberg@snowhill.com

> I wonder -- was there any reported UFO activity in either of
> those two irresponsible, immature, and ignorant locations? I
> point my finger fully realizing I point three back at myself,
> but I digress . . . I'd have thought the situation would have
> garnered a postulated ET's interest -- if _not_ concern. Is
> there any news from that part of the globe? I recall no mention
> in any of the digests here on UpDates. If not -- is that odd?

> <tapping the mike> Is this thing on?

Yeah, its on.    -LH







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               Re: MUFON's Maine Director On 'Sturrock Review'

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 04:26:23 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 09:54:19 -0400
Subject: Re: MUFON's Maine Director On 'Sturrock Review'


> From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 04:14:14 +0200
> Subject: MUFON's Maine Director On 'Sturrock Review'

> From: The Portland Newspapers (Portland Press Herald and Maine Sunday
> Telegram).

> http://www.portland.com/news/story11.htm

> Stig

> *******


Hi Stig:

I think you got the wrong URL. I clicked on it and got an article
about a local festival, complete with chicken-barbecue and band
concert.

Best:   -  Larry Hatch







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                          Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #252

From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za>
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 11:52:54 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 09:51:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #252

I'm not snipping, cutting, nor pasting, 'coz I think
anybody who has read Alfred's Ode and John's
reply will understand the context......

In my very humble opinion, I no longer regard the
human race as worth saving. My only hope is
that we die out before we totally decimate every
other specie on the planet.

But I think that would be overly optimistic.
While many will argue that I cannot tar all with the
same brush, I must say that any people that are
pure and devoted to a clean planet where all
species live in harmony, are so few, far between,
and therefore uninfluential, that I see little hope
for a significant change in the status quo.

I believe that the sanctity of human life is wrong.
I believe in the sanctity of all life that is crucial
to the health of our planet.

I just wish the warring nations of the world
could wipe themselves out without destroying
the planet. Maybe we should offer them bows
and arrows?

And no, I don't believe in the fundamental good
of the human being. There is little evidence to
support this theory, but much to refute it.

I would say that long periods of barbarism are
interspersed by short periods of enlightenment,
not the other way round.

I reckon ET are just a bunch of reporters from
far away observing the fall of the Ghetto planet.

depressed, and despairing.......

Jakes E. Louw
louwje@telkom.co.za






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                          A Note About Jerry Black

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 09:21:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 09:21:24 -0400
Subject: A Note About Jerry Black





From: Black's Hole

http://members.xoom.com/ufobarb/black.html


A note about Jerry Black...

Jerry Black is a long time UFO researcher, having been actively
interested in the subject for about 40 years. As with many of us
in the field, he's seen a lot of changes, some good and some
bad.

One thing that distresses Jerry is that he has seen, in the last
decade or so, the gradual decline in good research and
investigation by what were once the forerunners in ufology;
those that, at one time, were earnest and forthright seekers of
the truth about the UFO phenomenon.

In recent conversations with Jerry, he related to me his
misgivings about the detrimental effect that many of these
one-time solid figures were having on the field, overall. There
is a group of people that are considered long-standing "experts"
in the subject of UFOs. These include some prominent names that
are recognized even by folks that have little interest in the
subject. Jerry applauds the work that got most of these people
to the status that they now hold in ufology... He fully realizes
that determination and a sincere desire for answers to the
enigmatic questions about the nature of the phenomenon is what
made them the "big names" that they are.

He feels though, that, unfortunately, many of these well-known
figures have lost sight of what originally brought them to their
research and investigations. It appears that, for some, the
original fascination with the enigma has given way to the
limelight that they have been cast into, either by fate, or in
some cases, by design. He has come to the conclusion that some
of them have even "sold out." By this, I mean that they no
longer truly conduct themselves in the manner that a researcher
should, and more concerned with "staying in the public eye,"
"cashing in" on the subject (with lecture tours and book sales),
and maintaining their status and notoriety.

According to Jerry, the problem with this lies in the fact that
these people are big names in the field; they are the
individuals that are looked to for answers about UFOs, not only
by we students of the subject, but by the media, the curious,
and those with a burgeoning interest in ufology. Because of
this, it is their duty to provide only the best in information,
the facts, as they can be determined, and nothing but clear,
concise, unembellished data about what the phenomenon may be.
Sadly, this is no longer necessarily the case. He questions a
lot of what is presently being said and presented by "big name"
UFOlogists -- as we all should -- and wonders if many of them
have lost sight of their original objectives.

Jerry makes no apologies for what he says... Everything comes
straight from the gut, and is to the point. He believes that
ufology can progress and be taken seriously only if we get back
to the basics in research and investigation. It saddens him that
many of the people he speaks to in his open letters have "lost
their credibility," because he once considered many of them to
be the best in the field.

On a personal note, I have come to know and respect Jerry Black.
Not only is he still very sincere in his quest for the truth,
but he pulls no punches. He is straightforward and targeted when
he begins a research or investigative project. I have also come
to consider Jerry a friend. His open letters, sharp and coldly
inciscive, give no indication of the man behind the scenes. He
is a good soul, honest and giving. He and his wife, Peggy, went
through the most traumatic experience a parent can ever endure,
having lost their three-year-old daughter to brain cancer. Yet,
yearly, they deliver toys to kids at Cincinnati's Children's
Hospital on Christmas Day, and have established the Melissa
Black Memorial Fund (in honor of their daughter), to provide a
continuing source of financial help for terminally-ill children.

In closing, I urge anyone with questions and comments about
Jerry's editorials to contact him. He really is accomodating,
and will discuss his views openly and without reservation. He
does not have an e-mail address, but his contact information
appears at the end of each segment.





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   Jul > Jul 4

              An Open Message To Whitley Strieber - Jerry Black

From: Black's Hole
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 09:57:31 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 09:57:31 -0400
Subject: An Open Message To Whitley Strieber - Jerry Black

http://members.xoom.com/ufobarb/jb04.html


An Open Message To Whitley Strieber
by Jerry Black
July 1998


On or about February 10, 1998, Mr. Whitley Strieber and Ms.
Vicki Cooper, who is a promoter for the annual Gulf Breeze
Symposium held in Gulf Breeze, Florida every year, appeared on
the Art Bell Show. Vicki made a comment that, just recently, a
young couple took a video of what appeared to be a steel or
metallic ball in the sky. As it turns out, this video was shot
around 40 miles from Gulf Breeze. A still frame shot of this
object was placed on the Art Bell website.

Whitley Strieber had seen this photograph taken from the video a
few days earlier. Upon seeing the photograph on Art Bell's
website, and listening to Vicki Cooper relate the story, Whitley
Strieber made a comment that maybe the doubters of the Ed
Walters photographs would now take a second look.

I found that comment very interesting, because, first of all,
what does a video taken in 1998 -- or in 1990, for that matter
-- by a young couple, whether in Gulf Breeze, or 40 miles
outside of Gulf Breeze, have to do with Ed Walters' photographs?
It has absolutely nothing to do with Ed Walters' photographs.
Even if the object depicted in the video had been similar in
appearance to the Walters' photographs, it would still have
nothing to do with them.

Each case is, or should be, evaluated on its own merits,
individually and personally. Any other video taken has no
bearing on photographs taken by someone else. Certainly, it is
interesting to note similarities in photographs, and especially
in those taken around the same time. You certainly make a
notation of such in recording your investigative efforts. But
one case has no bearing on another case, otherwise. Each case
has to be evaluated as though it were a singular occurrence.

Mr. Whitley Strieber has written many books. He is a science
fiction writer by trade. I would have thought that he would have
been sharp enough to realize, by now, that Ed Walters' Gulf
Breeze photographs have been conclusively proven to be a hoax.
Mr. William G. Hyzer, and his son, James Hyzer, analyzed several
photographs, and concluded that, in particular, Photo #19, the
"road shot," was a double exposure.

The evidence of the case supports the fact that it is a hoax. So
why is Whitley Strieber out there touting the Ed Walters case?
Is it because this helps perpetuate the UFO phenomena on the Art
Bell Show? Does this help him keep a secure spot on the show, if
he professes to believe in other nationally-know UFO cases? I
would have figured that Mr. Strieber would have been a lot
smarter than that.

Another thing we'd like to point out is that Mr. Strieber is
certainly considered a contactee. In view of all of the books he
has written, and the numerous experiences that he claims to have
had -- which are ongoing -- he certainly would be categorized as
a contactee. Strangely, in the past, there has never been even
one contactee that mainstream UFO investigators have accepted.
That includes Mr. Daniel Frye, Mr. George Adamski, Billie Meier,
and a few others. There has not been a case of what we consider
a "contactee," which has been accepted as valid by any of the
better investigators.

Vicki Cooper went on to mention the then upcoming March 20
symposium in Gulf Breeze, Florida. Of course, Ms. Cooper would
obviously be promoting this, as she has had a financial interest
in the success or failure of the Gulf Breeze Symposium, ever
since the early 1990s, if not even before that. Consequently,
you can understand her point of view, when making the comment
that, for the last three out of five years, UFOs have been
spotted during the convention at the bay in Gulf Breeze. Mr.
Strieber went along with this, when Ms. Cooper stated that she
was hopeful that, with the gathering of a large crowd at the
symposium, the UFOs would make an appearance again. I don't
think anyone really believes that UFOs, whatever they might be,
make an appearance based on how many people are at a certain
location. I have no knowledge of any evidence that would support
this in any way, yet Ms. Cooper used it as a draw to get people
to come down to the symposium that was held on March 20. Of
course, Mr. Strieber went right along with that, and said that
he would try to be there.

My question is then, with Whitley Strieber, is he promoting the
Ed Walters case, and UFOs appearing to massive crowds of
believers, to keep an interest in his books on the subject? Or
does he sincerely believe this stuff? I also note, as referred
to earlier, that, as a UFO contactee, he is quite rare, as he is
the first to ever have been able to convince the vast majority
of UFO researchers that his encounters are true.

Ed Walters, who I assume is Mr. Strieber's friend, since he
supports Ed's story, claims to have taken and passed four
polygraph tests. In reality, what Ed Walters did was pass two
polygraph tests given by one gentleman; he passed one PSE test
given by another gentleman; the fourth PSE test was
inconclusive. Strangely enough, the two polygraphs and the PSE
that he passed were all self-sponsored, with no third party
involved to monitor the sessions. This is totally unacceptable.
The fourth test was sponsored by a third party, and was
inconclusive. Mr. Walters tried to make it appear that he passed
that test. He neither passed, nor failed -- there was not enough
material spoken on the UFO subject for the PSE to be valid.
Ironically, the three tests he passed were sponsored by no
outside, objective party. Ed Walters paid the bill, and there
were only two people involved in each test -- Ed and the tester.
Whether in ufology or in the criminal investigation system, this
is completely unacceptable.

On the sleeve of one of Mr. Strieber's books, I noticed that it
says he has also taken, and passed, four polygraph tests. So my
question is to Mr. Strieber, can you, sir, or someone else out
there, give us some basic information on the four polygraph
tests that you have claimed to pass? Who were the test
administrators? Who were the third parties involved in each, to
witness, or to pay for the sessions? Are the questions that were
asked in each test, along with the charts recording responses,
available for interested parties to take to other polygraph
experts, in an effort to have the material verified? I would
assume that, with nothing to hide, this would be possible and
that no one would have a problem with it.

I guess I'm trying to determine, Mr. Strieber, if your tests,
like Ed Walters', were self-sponsored, or if they were given by
a third objective, disinterested party -- no friends, no
relatives, but an investigator that could be completely
unbiased. Again, are the charts and questions available, to be
taken to other polygraph experts, for verification?

I would appreciate it if you could supply me with this
information, Mr. Strieber. Or if anyone out there has read
something of his that will give us a clear indication of this
information, it would be appreciated. I have tried to find the
information in a couple of his books, but could not.

Hopefully we will be hearing from Mr. Strieber, or someone else,
in the near future, to put to rest the question of whether or
not his polygraph tests were self-sponsored.

I thank you for your time in reading this.

Regards,


Jerry Black

JB/gmj


                    A NOTE ABOUT JERRY BLACK

Mr. Jerry Black has been researching and investigating UFOs in a
scientific and objective manner for the past 39 years. He spent
four and a half years re-investigating the Ed Walters/Gulf
Breeze case, with experienced investigators Rex Salisberry,
Barbara Becker, and Zan Overall. Mr. Black invites your comments
on the above. He can be reached at the following address and
phone number:

Jerry Black
6276 Taylor Pike
Blanchester, Ohio 45107
(513) 625-2613


NOTE: Permission is granted by the author to reproduce this
article in its entirety, in electronic form. Please contact the
author for permission to reproduce segments only.


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   Jul > Jul 4

             An Open Letter To Linda Moulton Howe - Jerry Black

From: Black's Hole
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 09:47:07 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 09:47:07 -0400
Subject: An Open Letter To Linda Moulton Howe - Jerry Black

http://members.xoom.com/ufobarb/jb03.html


UFOs And Credibility
An Open Letter To Linda Moulton Howe
by Jerry Black
July 1998


Recently on the Art Bell Show, a gentleman referred to as "Kent"
talked to Linda Moulton Howe for about two hours. He related a
story of being employed by a major courier company, and being
sent to NASA to pick up a package. After receiving the package,
it fell open. Out of the package came photographs of the "face"
on Mars which had not been shown to the general public. Upon
seeing the photographs, he was reprimanded by the gentleman who
had given the package to him, and the photographs were placed
back into the tube, for the courier to continue on his way.

Linda Moulton Howe spoke about the two-hour conversation on the
Art Bell Show, and made comments indicating that she thought
this was a solid case. Richard Hoagland, who was on the show at
the same time, felt the case was "98%" valid. He left that
remaining two percent open. To the credit of Mr. Hoagland, he
did investigate the case, and found that the gentleman was
hoaxing the story that he had told Ms. Howe. He even admitted
this.

Richard Hoagland's defense, regarding his 98% assessment in
originally deeming the story credible, was, "Well, I did leave
that two percent open." That is not good enough. One cannot make
a comment on high credibility, based on a person relating a
story that they were told by yet another person over the phone.
Even though one may know and trust that person (in this case,
that person was Linda Moulton Howe), one cannot automatically
say, "Well that case sounds like it's 98 percent authentic."

Linda Moulton Howe, who is the big culprit in this particular
case, ran with this story prematurely, as she has done with
others in the past, certainly before any investigation was
conducted. Because of this she has lost a lot of credibility,
not only on this case, but on others in which she has done the
same thing.

When Mr. Art Bell asked her what she had to say when it was
determined, through Richard Hoagland's investigation, that this
was an admitted hoax, she said, "Well, it doesn't make any
difference. We have some other pictures out there showing better
images of the face on Mars, structures, and things of that
nature." One has nothing to do with the other. This is a case of
Ms. Howe again trying to shrug off her mistake of running
prematurely with cases, as she has clearly demonstrated is her
nature in the past -- as though it makes no difference. It does
make a difference. It makes a difference in one's credibility.

Since that time, Linda Moulton Howe has brought forth the name
of a gentleman called "Cooper." Cooper has related information
to Ms. Howe concerning the autopsy video and his alleged
knowledge of this situation. He is apparently saying that the
autopsy video is authentic, and has given her some other
information concerning the crash at Roswell.

Again, Ms. Howe has presented the story of her conversation with
this gentleman, concerning the autopsy video, telling Art Bell
and his listeners that this is a bona fide story. We wonder when
she will realize that a conversation with someone over a
telephone is just that -- a conversation over the phone. One
cannot make any distinctions as to the credibility of a case
until one has at least personally spoken with the proponent of a
story and conducted an investigation. In fact, if these people
who call on the phone will not meet with Linda Howe, or Richard
Hoagland, or whoever it might be, once they have placed that
phone call, then, in my opinion, the investigation should be
dropped. One cannot handle these types of investigations over
the phone. Anyone can call and make claims, as these people do,
or send some type of document that may look valid.

The bottom line is, one cannot conduct an investigation over the
phone. It simply cannot be done, in my opinion. One must
convince the person on the other end to meet with you, to
discuss the situation eye to eye, get more information, and then
begin the investigation of what is being related. Only then can
one determine if there is any credibility to a given case.

Linda Moulton Howe has lost a considerable amount of credibility
in the past few years, because of situations just like this one.
I have learned from a credible source that she also continues to
use a photograph of the alleged body of an alien being in her
various lectures, even after being told, over a year ago, that
the photograph was not real. The photograph is of a dummy alien
made up for the Showtime movie, Roswell, and is the same dummy
on display at the UFO Museum in Roswell, New Mexico. Ms. Howe
was advised of this over a year ago, yet still uses it in her
lectures, presenting it as a bona fide photograph of an alien
being.

So as far as I am concerned, Richard Hoagland -- while we
applaud the fact that he did conduct an investigation, to bring
the case of "Kent" to a close -- should not be making these 98%
and 2% statements. Sure, it's easy to say, after the fact,
"Well, I did leave that two percent open." But to listeners of
the Art Bell Show you have relegated the story as 98% authentic
just because of what Linda Howe told you. The proper statement
to Art Bell or Linda Moulton Howe would be, once Mr. Hoagland
had heard this, "The story sounds interesting. I think a lot of
investigation needs to be done on this to see if this gentleman
is telling us the truth. Will he meet with us at a place and
time convenient to all of us, where we can talk with him? We
need more information." At that time a full investigation should
proceed. Mr. Hoagland would have no way of knowing if what Ms.
Howe, or her informant, was saying was "98%" true. It shouldn't
matter if Ms. Howe was one's best friend... Realistically, even
if my father had made that statement, I would not make the claim
that the story was "98%" valid, before any investigation had
been made.

Linda Moulton Howe is yet another figure in the UFO field that
has lost a lot of credibility, by continually making these
ludicrous statements about people calling her on the phone,
making claims about this or that, then running with those
stories prematurely. I really cannot even understand what reason
she would have to do so. Is it because she becomes of more
interest to the Art Bell Show when she does this? I have no
idea, but I do know that her credibility has been drastically
compromised. You can bet that most serious researchers will now
take a second look at anything she has to say, before trusting
the credibility of the stories she comes forth with. She has
only herself to blame for this.

In the future, I wish Ms. Howe would check things out
thoroughly, before making claims on the air. It does no harm to
bring it to the attention of the Art Bell audience that you have
talked to someone about a case, or that you are proceeding
cautiously, based on a phone call from someone. It would even be
acceptable for her to tell us that she was trying to meet with
the person, and checking to see if that was possible, before
making unfounded claims. As it is, she has no way of knowing if
the person is telling her the truth or not. It would not be bad
protocol to even advise listeners of the investigation, letting
the listeners know where the case stands.

To go on the air, though, after talking to a complete stranger
for two hours, and to say, "Oh, this sounds like a solid case,"
is ludicrous. It has to be because Ms. Howe is simply trying to
maintain some kind of status on the Art Bell Show, or that she
really is a very gullible person. We do not have room for any
more gullible people in the UFO field... We have more than we
need at the moment.

Again, UFO research and credibility must go hand in hand. We're
losing a lot of credibility with the general public, because of
statements like these Linda Moulton Howe has been making about
"Kent" and "Cooper." She must change her way of doing things,
for the good of the field, because she is the person that people
hear on the radio, and she is the person they go to listen to
when UFOs are being discussed.

Linda Moulton Howe needs to be extremely cautious, for the good
of UFO research in general, and should be a bit more skeptical
about things she hears in the future. This is the only way she
will continue to be a viable force in the UFO community, to be
considered a responsible, objective, and scientific
investigator.

I thank everyone for their time in reading this.

Regards,

Jerry Black

JB/gmj


                    A Note About Jerry Black

Mr. Jerry Black has been researching and investigating UFOs in a
scientific and objective manner for the past 39 years. He spent
four and a half years re-investigating the Ed Walters/Gulf
Breeze case, with experienced investigators Rex Salisberry,
Barbara Becker, and Zan Overall. Mr. Black invites your comments
on the above. He can be reached at the following address and
phone number:

Jerry Black
6276 Taylor Pike
Blanchester, Ohio 45107
(513) 625-2613


NOTE: Permission is granted by the author to reproduce this
article in its entirety, in electronic form. Please contact the
author for permission to reproduce segments only.


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   Jul > Jul 4

               Re: Burning Gas In Tornadoes Causes Many UFOs?

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 08:34:20 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 10:06:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Burning Gas In Tornadoes Causes Many UFOs?


> From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Burning Gas In Tornadoes Causes Many UFOs?

> >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
> >Subject: Burning Gas Inside Tornadoes Cause Of Many UFOs?

> >A new theory advanced by a University of Canterbury scientist suggests
> >many unidentified flying objects are balls of burning gas trapped
> >inside tornadoes.

> >Researcher Peter Coleman said his theory, published in a book, Ball
> >Lightning: A Scientific Mystery Explained, could apply to the Kaikoura
> >UFO sightings of 1978 and 1979, the Tunguska explosion in Siberia in
> >1908, human combustion, and numerous types of mysterious lights in the
> >sky.

> >According to the theory, ball lightning is produced when natural gas in
> >the atmosphere is caught in a vortex, then ignited by an electrical
> >charge such as conventional lightning or static electricity.

> >"If you had a tornado and you had a flame inside you would expect it to
> >blow out but there is a property called vortex breakdown that allows
> >the flame to survive in this high air speed environment. The vortex
> >bursts and creates recirculation like an eddy in a stream which allows
> >reduced air flow or stagnant air.

<Expletivos delitidos>

Dear sirs:

I thank you for identifiying the cause of UFO reports.

Now that they are identified, I can go back to my regular
business.

Yours truly

-  Larry Hatch





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 4

                Re: Mag 1/4 -- Comments on Trindade Isl. 1/2

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 98 10:00:59 PDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 10:04:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Mag 1/4 -- Comments on Trindade Isl. 1/2


> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 23:54:53 -0400
> From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Mag 1/4 -- Comments on Trindade Isl. 1/2
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> >Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:24:12 -0400
> >To: " UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> >From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net>
> >Subject: Mag 1/4__Comments on Trindade Isl.1

> Unfortunately I cannot be of much help in this case since' I have
> no information that is not available in th general literature.  I
> wonder why no one in Brazil...at least none that we have heard
> of, has tried to dig up some of the witnesses.

> Note: Baruna was interviewed about 10 years ago, I believe and
> the interview was published in IUR.(Jerry could probably name the
> particular issue.)

Hi, Jerry and Bruce,

The citation is Willy Smith, "Trindade Revisited," IUR 8,4 (July/
August 1983): 3-5,14.

Jerry Clark







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   Jul > Jul 4

                          Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #252

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 11:09:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 10:09:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #252


> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 04:13:35 -0500
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Alfred's Odd Ode #252

> >Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 09:37:36 -0500
> >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #252

> >Apology to MW #252 (For July 2, 1998)

> One of the local news broadcasts ran a piece about how
> the Pakistani's actually contemplated -USING- nuclear
> weapons against India during this recent round of sabre
> rattling. Isn't that kind of thinking symptomatic of full
> blown psychosis? Murder on that scale is unthinkable to
> any sane person. Yet, "leaders" of whole nations get away
> with it and in fact are sometimes put into power _because
> of_ their psychotic rantings and propositions.

Isn't it ironic that we tolerate, in our leadership, behavior we
would never tolerate in our own children, or ANY child?

> People think we're crazy because we talk about aliens
> and UFOs. The real whacko's (the dangerous ones) are
> -running- the assylum! If we don't 'sane up' real quick
> our children and our grandchildren won't have the luxury
> of living out their lives to a natural end. That will be taken
> care of for them. We have to take responsibility to insure
> a future for them and all succeeding generations. We have
> to stop living like we're the last generation or we will be!

Perhaps giving them the excuse they need to go in and round us
all up for incarcerations they practiced for recently in
Virginia?

> I wouldn't be surprized if activity was up because of the
> blasts. Bottom line though is that we gotta save ourselves!
> I for one, ain't waiting around to be "saved" by aliens. I
> learned a long time ago that Life is a self-help program.

Amen Brother -- if we can't carry our own water we don't
_deserve_ a continuence. Maybe the Aliens understand that better
than we do.

> Abductees die from cancer, (ie; Dr. Karla Turner,) heart
> attacks, and all manner of natural causes with no apparent
> intervention or concern shown by their lifelong captors.
> Foo fighters may have 'watched' battles during WWII or
> Viet Nam but they never 'stopped them.' Hitler killed millions
> of Jews and Gypsies, we nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki,
> millions continue to die at the hands of others daily. Just
> look at the fairly recent mass murders in Africa, the
> ongoing and unchecked genocide in Bosnia etc. The aliens
> could have interceded on behalf of poor insane and suffering
> humanity at anytime throughout our long, bloody history.
> The 'fact' is, they haven't.

But perhaps they _would_ have had we not worried them so terribly
<g>. Seriously, I think we _do_ worry them, if not scare them
scatologic -- less <g>.

> Doesn't matter if UFOs are watching, they won't interfere.
> I honestly believe that if China, India, Pakistan, the US and
> Russia all launched their nuclear warheads at each other
> simultaneously that our "visitors" would probably just watch
> in awestruck wonder and contemplate the magnitude of our
> collective stupidity and the profound depth of our suicidal
> tendencies and self-destructive psychosis.

Jakes Louw saw it as a group of ET's watching the meltdown of a
ghetto planet in a stunned collective of incredulity. Don't think
you're alone, brother Jakes!

> ><tapping the mike> Is this thing on?

> Yeah brother, I hear you. I hope others do too, for all our
> sakes. If _we_ don't do it, the evidence points to the fact
> that "They" sure as hell won't come down and do it for us!

> "Stop the insanity!"

> John Velez

That Susan Powter _did_ know how to put a cap on it, no?  <g>--
Explore the Alien View?

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake.







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   Jul > Jul 4

                    Re: Anthony Lake Denies UFO Briefing

From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net>
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 11:08:55 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 10:12:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Anthony Lake Denies UFO Briefing

Regarding the following Updates post ...

> Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 01:38:57 -0400
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Anthony Lake Denies UFO Briefing

> From: UFOMind Mailing List Archive
> http://www.ufomind.com/misc/1998/apr/d17-001.shtml

> Anthony Lake Denies UFO Briefing

>  From: Bob Durant <70232.17@compuserve.com>
>  Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 08:36:06 -0800

> On March 30 Washington columnist Sarah McClendon published a
> report claiming, among other things, that "a community of
> scientists and technicians employed by the government" believe
> UFOs "are actual visitors from other worlds." Her report has
> received wide distribution on the Internet.

>   [See http://www.ufomind.com/people/m/mcclendon/#1]

> McClendon states that a number of senior Clinton advisors
> received UFO briefings. Among those named officials is Anthony
> Lake, who served as the President's National Security Advisor.

> [ snip ]

> On April 14 Lake delivered the annual George W. Ball Lecture at
> Princeton University. I attended the lecture, and approached him
> after the talk to ask about McClendon's report. The following is
> a transcript of our short but unambiguous conversation.

> Durant: Two weeks ago Sarah McClendon, a Washington reporter,

> Lake: Right, right

> Durant: wrote a real fire burner about UFOs. And she indicated
> that this was taken very seriously by the Clinton
> administration. Your name was mentioned in it, as somebody
> having received a briefing on this topic. Do you know anything
> about this?

> Lake: This is very highly classified. But if you looked at
> Independence Day, the contact with the space aliens, the
> description of the aliens is just about perfect. No, that's just
> nonsense. Absolute nonsense. I never got a briefing. There is
> no, what, what is it, Roswell. Unless, I never heard of Roswell,
> in fact, until I was on the Diane Reems (sp?) show about a year
> ago, and a caller said, so are you going to tell us about
> Roswell, Roswell and what's it called, 51 or 52?

> Durant: Area 51

> Lake: Oh, Area 51. I never heard of it  [ snip ]

Well how interesting!  The President's National Security advisor
never heard of Area 51?  This when its common knowledge that the
site is one of the military's most protected development
facilities? And when President Clinton himself has granted
waivers to the site regarding Environment Protection Agency
standards?

Somehow I don't think so.

If this were true at all, its only because Lake is familiar with
the site, but by some other designation.  And I have to wonder
about his denial of the UFO briefing too.  The only remark above
I don't doubt the truth of is Lake's initial one,

> ... This is very highly classified.  ...


-Brian Cuthbertson







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   Jul > Jul 4

                             The Duke of Mendoza

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 13:10:44 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 10:58:39 -0400
Subject: The Duke of Mendoza

Dear Sirs and Madames:

Has anyone heard from the Duke of Mendoza lately?

The last I heard were some bubbles from his private
submarine in the Greek Isles. Maybe he was confused
with a Turk or a communist.

Please direct all comments to this open list.

Best!

- Larry Hatch










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               Nua Blather: Silly Season - Monsters, UFOs, etc

From: Dave Walsh <dave@nua.ie>
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 18:14:17 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 10:27:14 -0400
Subject: Nua Blather: Silly Season - Monsters, UFOs, etc

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By Daev Walsh   Email: blather@nua.ie
Web: http://www.nua.ie/blather/
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SILLY SEASON: MONSTERS, UFOS, ETC

Today's issue (July 3rd 1998) of that not particularly erudite
newsheet *The Star*, carries a report titled *Look out, it's
Eskie!*, which tells the tale of a lake monster sighting on Lough
Eske [a.k.a. Lough Easke], a few miles north of Donegal town, in
north-eastern Ireland. Diners and staff at Harvey's Point Hotel
(http://www.commerce.ie/harveys-pt/) saw 'something' moving
about, around 300m (328 yds)from the shore on Sunday 28th June at
2:30pm. Local B&B boss Annabel Clarke reckons that the beastie was up
looking for food, while her husband Kieran commented that '"some
lakes in Donegal are said to be connected by current to Scotland"'.
Disappearing rivers, caverns, connecting lakes (which does happen,
e.g. Lough Mask and Corrib) are all classic motifs in lake monster
lore.I even seem to recall claims of links between Scottish
and North American lakes!

The article is accompanied by a photo of the hotel's banqueting
manager, Seamus Caldwell -- one of the witnesses -- looking at the
lake through binoculars, and has an inset of a plesiosaur
illustration labelled 'COUSIN: Lough Ness Monster', which almost
caused me to choke on my breakfast [Let me point out at this
juncture that I don't normally read *The Star* over breakfast].

On a practical side, Lough Eske is at an elevation of about 100m (328
ft) about sea-level, and connects into Donegal bay by the River Eske
which is only 3 or four miles long. I'm unfamiliar with the terrain,
and Blather's readers are welcome to comment on the practicability of
seals etc. entering Lough Eske. So far, I haven't come across any
mentions of Lough Eske in lake monster literature, but Robert Lloyd
Praeger does mention it on page 52 of *The Way That I Went*.

        'Lough Easke (*Loch eisc*, lake of the fish) offers a softer type
        of scenery, for though surrounded by hills on three sides, its
        sheltered position allows rich woodland to clothe its western
        shores (Plate V [photo included]). It is indeed a very beautiful
        lake, seen to its best advantage from the southern end, where the
        rounded summits of the naked Blue Stack Mountains (2219 feet) are
        seen rising behind the heathery hills that surround the lake.'

Lough Belshade, another two miles up river, have some tales attached.
The Gaelic name, loch b=E9l s=E9ad translates as the lake with the jewel
mouth. it comes from a legend in the *Leabhar Breac*, which tells us
that:

        '"*Coerabar boeth*, the daughter of Etal Anbuail of the fairy
        mansions of Connaught, was a beautiful and powerfully gifted
        maiden. She had three times fifty 50 ladies in her train. They
        were all transformed every year into three times fifty beautiful
        birds and restored to heir natural shape the next year. These
        birds were chained in couples by chains of silver. One bird among
        them was the most beautiful of the world's birds having a
        necklace of red gold on her     neck, with three times fifty chains
        depending from it, each chain terminating in a ball of gold.
        During their transformation into birds they always remained in
        Loch Crotta Cliath [that is, the Lake of cliath's harps]
        wherefore the people who saw them were in the habit of saying:
        'Many is the *S=E9ad* [that is, a gem, or jewel, or other
        precious article] at the mouth of Loch Crotta this day. And hence
        it is called *Loch B=E9l S=E9ad* [or the Lake of the Jewel
        Mouth]."'

Robert Lloyd Praeger
*The Way That I Went* 1937, republished 1997 by The Collins Press
ISBN 1-898-256-357

(*The Star*, Friday July 3rd 1998)




THE BLATHER OF NORWAY
While on the subject of lake monsters, we may as well go so far as to
share with you an upcoming Blather outing.

In Blather Vol 1. No. 42, back on February 27th 1998, we had a story
labelled *A Monster Hunting We Will Go*
(http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/issue1no42.html), which told of a
planned monster-hunt to Lake Seljord in Norway. In the following
issue
(http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/issue1no43.html) Jan-Ove
Sundberg, the leader of the expedition, gave us his views regarding
to some rather spurious remarks from scientists regarding lakeside
sawmills.

This Blatherskite is flattered to have been invited aboard as part of
the team, or to be more precise the Global Underwater Search Team
(GUST), which seeks to corroborate 250 years of lake monster
sightings on the lake. The project runs from August 3rd - 20th, and
24-hour surveillance will be maintained by the 12 person team. The
proceedings will be filmed for both the Discovery Channel and the
BBC. More details on the lake, the monster, the GUST team and the
equipment we'll be using is available at the GUST website.
(http://www.bahnhof.se/~wizard/gust). More news as it all unfolds.

See also *Netman hunts Norwegian Nessie*, Sunday Business Post, June
28 1998, Page 11
(http://www.sbpost.ie/newspaper/current/news/Netman.html)





WHAT'S IN THE DERRY AIR?
The Derry Journal Friday 19th of June 1998 tells us of *Close
Encounters of the Derry Kind*, enlightening us as to how folks
thereabouts are convinced of extraterrestrial contact during that
week. The paper received various anonymous reports of 'round
objects' seen 'high in the sky' over the Galliagh area at around 11am
on Wednesday 17th. The object was said to be spinning, and
reflective, but noiseless. It was joined [how?, did they *arrive*, or
just appear?] by two more, and '"all three could be seen spinning
high in the sky."'

The claimants said that the UFOs moved across the sky, and two shot
vertically upwards 'straight up into the atmosphere'. The other
continued flying across the sky, and vanished.

The Journal seems to have had a ball investigating these claims,
with little success. Derry airport said that *the* hadn't seen
anything, while the RUC (Royal Ulster Constabulary) urged witnesses
to contact their '"alien branch"'.

The article was accompanied by photo with this caption:

'It was something like this...This special photofit images was
similar to the spherical like object which several readers claimed to
have seen circling Derry this week'
[Image shows shot of Derry, with stuck-on flying *saucer*]

So, is this just silly season stuff, or is there any credence to it
at all?

[Thanks to Ciaran O'Neill from the Derry Journal for faxing me the
article, and Patricia Sharkey for alerting me to this, and to earlier
reports in the Donegal Democrat, a copy of which I have been as yet
unable to acquire.]



AN IRISH CHUPACABRAS?
Mention was made to me only this morning by one Gerry Minehan of
'goat sucker'-like creature which alledgedly haunted the Gougane
Barra Forest Park area in Co. Cork during the 1930s. First I heard of
it, though Doc Shiels does make mention of the Ballyvourney Beast in
Fortean Times 34:20, seen about 10 miles north-east of Gougane Barra
by Seamus Creagh and Pauline Dodds, way back in 1981. They reckoned
they had seen a lynx. Apart from it being the haunt of Saint Gobnate,
the Pooka and a Spirit Horse got up to no good around Ballyvourney,
according to Thomas Crofton Croker
(http://faeryland.tamu-commerce.edu/~earendil/faerie/Croker/).
Morty Sullivan had a bit of a run-in with the Pooka, in the shape of
an old woman, 'a sulphureous puff coming out of her mouth, her
nostrils distending, and her eyes growing redder than ever'. He was
found batter and bruised the next morning by a bunch of pilgrims to
St. Fin Barre's church at Gougane Barra, or so we're told. Unrelated
of course, were the goings-on in a funeral home there in March 1997,
involving an assault against a corpse by an former U.S. Marine.
(http://www.irish-times.com/irish-times/paper/1997/0619/hom12.html)h-times/p
aper/1997/0619/hom12.html)


In the same Doc Shiels article, according to a letter from a Miss
Kathleen O'Shea of Cork City, had a bit of a weird experience on
4p.m. on the 9th of August, while walking near Smerwick on the Dingle
Peninsula, Co. Kerry. She was heading towards Ballyferriter,
and the sky was "dark with rain clouds". As she made for shelter, "a
giant black animal like a bat flew up. I screamed and fell forward.
When I dared to open my eyes it had gone. I ran all the way to
Ballyferriter. . ." An Irish Owlman, Mothman, Goatsucker or a Devil?


RAW
Blatherskite alter-ego pontificates on the work of Robert Anton
Wilson in June's Purple Ept
(http://www.inept.com/sporadic/featuresjul98/raw.htm)


Dave Walsh
July 3rd 1998




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The Internet creates a Network Economy, a network connecting people
and business, not machines. This conference will explore the business
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The conference organisers are honoured to have Esther Dyson as
keynote speaker. Naming her Number 12 in Upside's Elite 100, Upside
recently wrote that Dyson's "stature is based entirely on her
ability to influence others with her ideas rather than directly
control companies or huge amounts of capital."

The topics that the Network Economy Conference will to cover include:
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Read Blather: http://www.nua.ie/blather - forays into forteana







   UFO UpDates
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   Jul > Jul 4

                      A Remark By Eshleman On PBS Radio

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 15:49:49 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 11:04:53 -0400
Subject: A Remark By Eshleman On PBS Radio

A remark that Prof. Eshleman (of the Sturrock panel) made on PBS
Radio's "Science Friday" interview was interesting. This is in
regard to the SETI program having received a considerable number
of signals from space that could not be identified as coming from
any Earth source, and which did not last long enough to be
considered really repeatable. His point on this was that these
unidentified radio-wave signals (URS?) resemble UFO reports in
this regard -- both unidentified. (His hope was that ufology
might grow in respectability to the same level that SETI has
reached, which is not asking for too much!)

A point he did not make, however, is that UFOs are unidentified
in many or most cases because they do not hang around long enough
for the news media to photograph them from all directions, or for
the military to shoot them down and display them as evidence,
etc.  This makes Eshleman's analogy even closer, I think.

So it would not be surprising if these URS were purposely
implanted by certain UFO intelligences, as part of the overall
UFO phenomenon.  That way they can make some astronomers start to
ponder it a bit, just as the crop-circle phenomenon can (or
should) make a few plant pathologists ponder that end of it.

   Jim Deardorff







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   Jul > Jul 4

                         Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4

From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 19:19:55 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 11:10:18 -0400
Subject: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4


>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4
>Date: Thu, 02 Jul 98 12:44:20 PDT

<Total snip>

Jerry,

Before I take the time to respond to your latest post, let me ask
you two brief yes or no questions.

1) Does the word "condescend" mean anything to you? If so, then
don't do it. Please. It merely tickles the tendency in the
respondent to do likewise.

2) Have you read the Mike Davis essay in The Anomalist 5? I'm
pretty sure you have a copy, because I believe I sent you one. If
not, it's a long weekend, so maybe you could stir yourself. And
I'll read Swords's "Extraterrestrial Hypothesis and Science" in
the 2nd edition of your Encyclopedia, which arrived last night,
and for which, many thanks.

I will answer one of your questions now, however.

>And finally, a question: I'm curious. When was the last time you
>took a pro-UFO position in any argument on this subject? Or is
>that occurrence lost in the dim mists of antiquity?

One pro-position I took was to solicit and publish Karl Pflock's
article "UFOs: For RAND Use Only" in The Anomalist. I might also
point out that it precedes Davis's article in the same issue. To
some (except possibly yourself) that would indicate that I have a
high tolerance for ambiguity.

For another recent pro-position, see many of the articles
included in my "UFOs 1947-1997: Fifty Years of Flying Saucers,"
co-edited with Hilary Evans. If I weren't in basic agreement with
them, I wouldn't have used them.
(Sorry, but sometimes one has to state the obvious. I believe you
even referred to it as one of the best books of the year, a
laurel I doubt you would have bestowed on a book highly critical
of the subject.)

For a forthcoming pro-position, read my next book, "A Field Guide
to UFOs," co-written with Patrick Huyghe, and due out next year.
You may be surprised.

And my very next death-defying act of pro-UFO-position derring-do
(when I eventually get around to it) will be to publish on this
List a list of 10-20 cases suggestive of ET UFOs (drawn from the
Field Guide), a pro-position a number of people on this List have
proferred you, as well, to no avail to date.

But, no, I don't get out of bed every morning (such is my
tolerance for ambiguity that it even extends to my own thinking
on any given day) with a burning need to issue a pro-UFO
proclamation.

My doubts about ET visitation (apparently unlike you, I have
some), when I have them, are driven more by the sorts of larger
issues raised by Davis (and others -- yes, there is a so-called
"New Astronomy"), rather than the number of (potential)
civilizations in the galaxy or the immense distances between
stars. After all, if there's only one intelligent observer
species in the universe (the Strong Anthropic Principle), it
wouldn't make any difference how far apart (or near) the stars
were.

From the papers I read, it's clear to me that new discoveries
are being made about the universe almost on a daily basis. Old
theories and best guesses are being overturned regularly. The old
girl is refusing to sit still for her full physical, which makes
it extremely difficult for any of us -- Davis, Swords, you, or me
-- to fully know, or describe, the creature we're talking about.
And, by extension, the role of the UFO within.

Again, a response to some of your other issues later.

Dennis







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   Jul > Jul 4

                            Re: Filer's Files #26

From: Jeff Westover <jeff.westover@mailexcite.com>
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 17:47:57 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 12:01:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #26


>From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
>Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 16:54:02 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Filer's Files #26


>Port Washington Bob Mueller reports that saw black helicopters
>fly over his house on Saturday, June 13, 1998, and then again on
>Sunday. On both days, five helicopters flew north and then came
>back a few hours later heading south. They looked like UH-60
>Blackhawks gunships with a capacity for about a dozen troops
>apiece. There were no markings, but those low-visibility paint
>sc hemes make it tough to see. Sunday night, at about 11:00 PM,
>I went out to my car to get something, and I saw a moving,
>flashing orange light very high in the sky directly overhead.
>When it flashed, it was very bright (so much so, it's reflection
>off my car/glasses caught my attention enough to cause me look
>DIRECTLY up). It appeared to be moving in straight line. The UFO
>was heading due North - the same heading (and along virtually
>the same path) as the helicopters. I watched it for about 10
>seconds, then ran inside to get my wife Michele. We came out
>maybe 30 seconds later, but by then it was gone. Was a satellite
>catching the sun? I wonder. Thanks for the E-mail submission
>from Bob Mueller.

I believe this report to actually be from Port Washington, Wisconsin (north of M
ilwaukee and sitting on Lake MICHIGAN).

Jeff Westover






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                Re: Mag 1/4 -- Comments on Trindade Isl. 1/2

From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net>
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 21:44:23 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 12:09:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Mag 1/4 -- Comments on Trindade Isl. 1/2


>From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 23:54:53 -0400
>Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 02:27:53 -0400
>Subject: Re: Mag 1/4 -- Comments on Trindade Isl. 1/2

>>Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:24:12 -0400
>>To: " UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net>
>>Subject: Mag 1/4__Comments on Trindade Isl.1

Bruce,

I believe that a paper entitled "Trindade Revisited" was
published by Dr. Willy Smith in the July/August 1983 issue of the
International UFO Reporter.

However, I have a gap in my IUR subscriptions from about that
time, when CUFOS was going through its early growing pains. (i.e.
when it was publishing through "Probe" and "Second Look", which I
think became, "Frontiers of Science.")

If what you mentioned about the Baruna interview isn't there,
we'll need some "official" help for the exact issue.  :-)

Jerry
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


>>Greetings Peter & list members,

>>It is hoped the following regarding the Almirante Saldanha UFO
>>sighting off Trindade Island is in keeping with Bruce
>>Maccabee's sentiments regarding decreasing philosophical
>>discussion and rather, digging in and getting to the
>>nitty-gritty within various cases.

<snip>

>Note: Baruna was interviewed about 10 years ago, I believe and
>the interview was published in IUR.(Jerry could probably name
>the particular issue.)









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                     Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 23:21:35 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 12:30:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study


>Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 17:27:11 -0700
>From: jared@valuserve.com (1 Jared Anderson)
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study


<snip>

>In addition Jacques Vallee and Bruce Maccabee have written
>articles in SSE's Journal of Scientific Exploration. If anything
>UFO related ever get's published in any mainstream academic
>scientific journals there will HAVE to be references and
>citations to certain ufologists. I can't imagine carreer
>reesarchers will all just be forgotten.


I have also published a couple of articles in Applied Optics...
how tat came about is an interesting story in itself.  However,
if the high powered academics with university affiliation take
grab the ball and start running with it (funded research) they
will overwhelm the previous work quite quickly.  Whether "classic
UFO scientsts" get mentioned or no will depend upon whether the
sightings invesigated by the "newby" scientsts are old cases
(e.g. predating 1998) or new ones for which there has been little
or no investigation by the "classic ufologists."  And, yes,
career researchers could be forgotten.






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                Re: Mag 1/4 -- Comments on Trindade Isl. 1/2

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 23:21:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 12:29:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Mag 1/4 -- Comments on Trindade Isl. 1/2


>Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:24:12 -0400
>To: " UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net>
>Subject: Mag 1/4__Comments on Trindade Isl.1

>Greetings Peter & list members,

>It is hoped the following regarding the Almirante Saldanha UFO
>sighting off Trindade Island is in keeping with Bruce Maccabee's
>sentiments regarding decreasing philosophical discussion and
>rather, digging in and getting to the nitty-gritty within
>various cases.

Great, Jerry. Glad to (a) see that someone actually reads my
messages and (b) is willing to try to get some "real work"done
by members of this list.

Unfortunately I cannot be of much help in this case since'
I have no information that is not available in th general
literature.  I wonder why no one in Brazil...at least none that
we have heard of, has tried to dig up some of the witnesses.

Note: Baruna was interviewed about 10 years ago, I believe
and the interview was published in IUR.(Jerry could probably
name the particular issue.)






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                     Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 23:22:14 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 13:21:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study


>From: Melanie Mecca <natural.state@erols.com>
>Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 23:12:32 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study

>> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 07:54:03 -0400
>> From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Scientists: UFOs Warrant Study
>> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>> In some cases teh witness testimony is
>> EXTREMELY compelling and furthermore involves descriptions of
>> phenomena that remain unexplainable after analysis.... and some
>> of these cases point toward Other Intelligences. (Uh oh,
>> banishment to UFO Hell again!)

>You'll have lots of company in UFO hell - those of us who think
>take a duck, it most likely is a duck (ok, a souped-up-model duck
>with advanced yogic powers that can walk through walls - so
>what????) But you are forgetting that fairies and demons can
>assume shapes like shiny metal craft at will, and for fun they
>mimic various bright lights, chase cars (a la latest BC case),
>pretend to be ultra-flying machines showing off gravity-defying
>feats, simulate landings as if they were solid physical objects,
>and of course, abduct people to breed more fairies (because you
>can never have too many). Any physical evidence, therefore, may
>appear to have some manner of ontological status but is really
>just - fairy dust.  The Sturrock Panel may be in the know
>already.

Melanie Mecca


Thank you for your kind comments about having company in UFO
HELL. As for the fairies, they exist in fairy hell along with
lots of fairy dust.... but they don't care.  Neither would
anyone else after sniffing some of that fairy dust.






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                         Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 23:22:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 13:24:35 -0400
Subject: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4


>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
>To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4
>Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 08:04:24 -0400

>> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 07:54:09 -0400
>> From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4
>> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>> In the Washington DC area there is a nighttime talk show which
>> had one of the UFO panel members on (Jay Melosh of U of
>> Arizona). He is a "hard nosed" skeptic. I just happened to hear
>> the beginning of the show as I was riding in my car. When I got
>> to my office (work late) I called in and was able to speak
>> with/debate Melosh. It just so happened that the talk show host,
>> Chip Franklin, had me on his show a year ago to talk about my
>> book UFOS ARE REAL- HERE'S THE PROOF (Ed Walters and Bruce
>> Maccabee, Avon paperback,. $6.00 cheap. ....shameless plug)...

>> Franklin, although skeptical, did not write me off as he might
>> have most. Hence, when I got on the air in the latter half of
>> the show and did not have time to complete some
>> statements/thoughts I was expressing, he invited me to stay over
>> for a "few minutes" the next hour (which was essentially an open
>> hour in his program). SAo many people called in that I ended up.
>> on his show for the whole hour following Melosh, discussing.,
>> etc., and fielding questions from the audience. (One man w.ho
>> called in said he was 13 years old near Mt. Kisco New Yor...arge
>>.any of their neighbors.)

>Glad to know you got in your licks!

>But I'm most curious about Melosh. Clearly, the steering
>committee of this new UFO study leaned toward the unusual in
>science, with the likes of David Pritchard, Hal Puthoff, and
>Robert Jahn on it.>.

>So it's the review panel that's most important -- the scientists
>who reviewed the data that the steering committee helped
>assemble. Melosh was a member. I'm glad to know he's skeptical,
>because I'm glad to konw there were skeptics on it.>

>What did he say on the radio? What part of the new report did he
>stress? Did he dissent from any of it? I'm eager to know what
>impact this report will have on scientists, and the feelings of a
>skeptic who was involved in it might be an early sign of where
>this is going.>

>Greg Sandow

I did not hear the whole show, only th first few minutes and
then the last 20 or so when I was on. From what I did hear it
was clear that Melosh wouldn't bite the UFO bullet without
having a bullet - i.e., hardware - to bite. In other words, he
didn't believe that any of the sightings he heard about were
evidence of anything beyond our physics, although he admitted
that some of the sightings were "puzzling." As I recall, Mr
Franklin asked specifically about several of the cases that
Melosh couldn't explain. Melosh did agree that the subject
deserves more serious study, although he did point out that
young scientists trying to build up their credibility probably
shouldn't get involved because of the "giggle factor" (not a
term he used). Generally speaking h did not, so fa as I coul
tell, dispute the published report in any way.







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                      Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 23:21:40 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 13:15:42 -0400
Subject: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'


>From: RobIrving@aol.com
>Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 22:45:22 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

>> To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>> From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'
>> Date: Sun, 28 Jun 98 13:36:18 PDT

>Jerry,

>Despite your attempts to suggest otherwise, many of the points
>I've made to Sean do not oppose the idea that "myopic
>conventionalism" <my words> slows down progress. I don't see why
>science would be different from any other human activity.>

<snip>

Rob, you say you don't accept the ETH.  Fine.  The first question
to answer is this :  is there any case which you would accept as
unexplainable in terms of known phenomena, said phenomena being
generally characterized as either misidentification (of mundane
natural or manmade phenomena or devices), mental phenomena (e.g.,
delusions, "will to believe" overpowering rationalism,
daydreaming, hypnopompic/gogic, "old hag," etc.) or outright
hoaxes.

If there is no such case then I presume that you can offer an
explanation for each sighting case that can be presented to
you... and I don't mean a "garbage" explanation that falls apart
upon analysis, I mean an explanation that withstands analysis in
light of the available information on any sighting.

On the other hand, if you can suggest a case which is truly
puzzling to you, perhaps we can discuss it on this list and
arrive at some conclusion as to how it might be explained or if
it truly seems unexplainable.

If you can think of no sighting that would be unexplainable,
perhaps I can suggest one or more to discuss... to see if you can
explain.






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                              Re: Press Release

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 09:42:35 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 13:30:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Press Release


Press Release -- July 4, 1998 -- FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

REACTION TO OPENING OF BOB SHELL'S STORE OVERWHELMING

Today's Grand Opening of Bob's Place, the new on-line store on
Bob Shell's web site was greeted with wild enthusiasm. Large
crowds turned out in massive impromptu demonstrations all across
the nation to celebrate. The smell of hotdogs, hamburgers and
cotton candy filled the air. Kegs were cracked and glasses
lifted in toast to this unique occasion. Traffic jams occurred
everywhere as people rushed to the celebrations.

Reached at his 147th floor office in the imposing Bob Shell Ltd.
building which dominates the skyline of Radford, Virginia, Bob
said, "I am humbled by this response. I expected a few people to
turn out for my grand opening, but not these gigantic crowds.
Why it was almost a holiday atmosphere. And the fireworks were
almost too much!!! This day will live forever in my memory."

The new store is the result of a solid year of hard labor by
Crimson Star, widely regarded as the world's finest web site
designer, with input from Bob and a specially selected group of
test subjects.

Bob is available for television and radio appearances related to
this spectacular event.

The web site is at  http://www.bobshell.com

If you have trouble accessing the site, keep trying.  It is expected that
the massive crowds going on line simultaneously to visit Bob's Place may
bring the entire internet to a crawl for the next few weeks.








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                        Re: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 10:47:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 13:41:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up


>From: Joe Murgia <Ufojoe1@aol.com>
>Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 00:39:52 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up

>>Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 23:54:17 -0400
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up

>ebk wrote:

>>It seems that he ran into Jeff Sainio at the MUFON Symposium in
>>Colorado this past weekend. The reclusive Mr Sainio called up the
>>Mexico City footage of the 'Craft' going behind a large building,
>>on his computer and told Michael that he was absolutely in no
>>doubt that the footage was a hoax.

>Lindemann also said that Jaime (sp?) Maussan is willing to
>consider this but Maussan can't get by the credibility of the
>teenage girl Cassandra who claims she saw the craft and her
>Father didn't believe her and called her a liar. He allegedly
>believed her when J.M. came calling. The Father tells same
>story. Supposedly Cassandra didn't watch the show where Maussan
>debuted the video. Of course, this is impossible to prove.>

>There were also other witnesses including a young boy. Are they
>all lieing? What a sad world if they are. And what a terrific
>bunch of liars because I saw the interviews and these people
>seemed credible. Some were professional people from the area of
>where the sighting or hoax took place if that's what
>it is.

>How reliable is Sainio? Who is he?

>Joe in Tampa


Sainio is one of the best photo/video analysts in the
"business." He began studying the video at my request and the
results of our initial joint work on it were published in the
MUFON Journal several months ago. He as spent MANY hours on this
video, as I can attest, as have I.

Initially it looked very intriguing. But scientists always asks
questions of the data (in a manner of speaking) and try to check
consistency in all ways.

One of the things to check in in video movie or even a still
photo is the comparison between the smearing of images due to
camera motion. The UFO image smear should be the same as the
background image smear. Careful edge analysis shows that the UFO
image is smeared very little or not at all at the same time (in
the same frames) where the building image smear is sizeable. In
neither case is the smear very great because the camera was
evidently operating with a rather fast shutter time (1/250 sec
or so). This is why the differential smearing was not noticed in
the initial analyses.

Any acceptance of the video as real would have to include a
logical explanation for this differential smear (I can't think
of one!). Since the cameraman is still, so far as I know,
unknown, the camera, etc. cannot be checked.

The story is that the cameraman would not come forward because he
was working illegally in Mexico City and would be sent back to
Venezuela (or perhaps arrested and put in jail) if discovered.
You should note that sizeable amounts of good old American $$$
were thrown around in order to UPN to buy the rights to use that
video in "Danger in Our Skies." The cameraman could have
demanded a pretty penny for convincing proof that his video was
real.... I expect he could have made a lot of money and gone
back to Venezuela as rich man, had he played his cards right. In
other words, if this were a real video it would have been more
lucrative for the person to admit to having taken it (thereby
getting paid tens of thousands of $$$) than to maintain
anonymity and continue working for whatever company in Mexico
City. (Unless, of course, he works for "Juan Valdez" and the
people who have all those "funny" farms in Columbia.)

Without a "first person account" of the video, the video will
always be "wounded." Inasmuch as internal evidence seems
to show signs of fake, at the very least it cannot be accepted
as proof of the visual sightings.

How, then, does it related to the visual sightings?

Perhaps the videographer heard about the sighting or was a
witness and then took well over a month to construct his
depiction of it. And perhaps the witnesses were not all
recalling events on the specific date, Aug. 6, which shows on
the video.

The bottom line is that we don' know how to relate the video to
the sightings, and we may never know if the videographer doesn't
come forward.






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                        Re: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 10:47:41 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 13:59:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up


>To: updates@globalserve.net
>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up

>While listening to Wednesday night's 'Sightings', hosted by Jeff
>Rense, this evening (thanks Bill) I caught the erudite Michael
>Lindemann dropping a gem.>

>It seems that he ran into Jeff Sainio at the MUFON Symposium in
>Colorado this past weekend. The reclusive Mr Sainio called up the
>Mexico City footage of the 'Craft' going behind a large building,
>on his computer and told Michael that he was absolutely in no
>doubt that the footage was a hoax.

It is true. Upon careful analysis we have determined that when
the background building images are smeared by camera motion the
UFO image does NOT appear to be similarly smeared. Very
difficult (impossible?) to explain this situation if the UFO were
a real object out there. This result has been known to the
investgators (myself, Sainio, and Chip Pedersen) for over a
month and I mentioned it at the Mid Atlantic MUFON SYmposium in
early May. Furthermore, Sainio sent a letter stating his opinion
to Walt Andrus about a month ago.

However, we have held off publication pending analysis of a
guaranteed fake for comparison. The fake has been created for
use in Robert Kiviat's next TV show (he did the alien autopsy
and last summer's "best video evidence") in a couple of weeks.
(Kiviat would not release to us a copy of the fake video until
just before his show airs).






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                          Re: Two 'New' UFO Crashes

From: Joe Ritrovato <joerit@flash.net>
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 09:25:52 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 14:08:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Two 'New' UFO Crashes


> From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 23:04:32 EDT
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Two 'New' UFO Crashes

> To anyone interested:

> Here is a report I feel confident none of you have heard. It
> was investigated initially by Ray Fowler when he worked with
> NICAP.

> Several years ago, I heard that in the seventies a UFO had
> crashed into a nearby "swimming hole" known as Rainbow Lake here
> in Derry NH, (USA). I took that report with substantial NaCl,
> but then later saw reference to it in a book about "local
> mysteries". So, I went to the library and did some micro
> ficheing. Since I had no specific date to go by, I started from
> 1970 and worked my way through piles of newspaper film until I
> found the story. I'm paraphrasing here since I can't find the
> photocopy, but here is the gist of it:

> On Oct. 10, 1973, more than twenty witnesses saw two glowing
> disks descend from the sky. Both hovered momentarily above
> Rainbow Lake, then one dropped into the water, making an audible
> splash and a series of waves. The remaining disk lingered
> briefly, then shot back into the sky. The police were contacted,
> and subsequently divers from the local fire department were
> called in. They searched the water, but reported near zero
> visibility due to the cloudy, murky conditions. Dragging the
> bottom with nets was considered, but apparently dragging for
> UFOs was not included in the small-town fire dept's budget, and
> no further searches were conducted.

I've been collecting stories of reported UFO Crashes for a
couple of years (I have a list of 70 that I feel may be worthy
of further investigation), but haven't heard of this one.
However, there is one I know about that is strangely similar to
it that also occurred in New Hampshire. On 1/10/77 in Wakefield,
NH, an unidentified black cube shaped object (believe it was no
more than a foot long on a side) fell from the sky and crashed
through the ice of a pond in someone's back yard (for details
see: Boston Globe, 8/7/96, B, 1:4).

Kevin Randle in his "A History of UFO Crashes" rates this last
crash of something as 'Not A UFO Event', however he doesn't tell
us what he thought it was either.

> I have been to the site, and it is not a particularly large body
> of water. In fact, "pond" would describe it more adequately. It
> is perhaps two to three hundred yards wide, and nearly circular.
> It may be artificial. I have not spoken to any of the witnesses,
> but have spoken to a few folks who recall the excitement
> generated by the event.

> I must admit, I watched with bemusement as Paramount's Sightings
> covered the recent searches off the coast of Nova Scotia as
> teams looked through hundreds of square miles of ocean for the
> object purportedly seen there a few years back. Perhaps they
> would have had better luck down the road a bit from my house!
> There are no reports of the object leaving, after all.

> If anyone would like copies of the original articles, let me
> know and I'll find them or just go make more.

> Greg

> Strmnut@aol.com


Yes Greg, I would be very interested to see the original
articles related to the 10/10/73 event. Let me know when you've
got them in hand...

Thanks,

Joe Ritrovato
mailto:joerit@flash.net






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   Jul > Jul 4

               Re: Burning Gas In Tornadoes Causes Many UFOs?

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 23:21:58 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 13:19:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Burning Gas In Tornadoes Causes Many UFOs?


>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 03:24:36 +0200
>Subject: Burning Gas Inside Tornadoes Cause Of Many UFOs?


>Thanks to The Press (New Zealand). URL: >

>http://www.press.co.nz:80/26/98070131.htm

>Burning gas inside tornadoes 'cause of UFOs' >>


>PHOTO: JULIANNE MYERS-POULSEN=BF=BF=BF=BF=BF=BF=BF>

>(Photo text: Researcher Peter Coleman demonstrates equipment capable of
>creating ball lightning in the laboratory.)


>A new theory advanced by a University of Canterbury scientist suggests
>many unidentified flying objects are balls of burning gas trapped
>inside tornadoes. >

>Researcher Peter Coleman said his theory, published in a book, Ball
>Lightning: A Scientific Mystery Explained, could apply to the Kaikoura
>UFO sightings of 1978 and 1979, the Tunguska explosion in Siberia in
>1908, human combustion, and numerous types of mysterious lights in the
>sky.

<snip>

>Mr Coleman said UFOs are often reported near fault lines because gas
>was likely to be released before an earthquake.

>He said seismic activity recorded in Cook Strait at the time of the
>Kaikoura UFO sightings may have triggered a release of gas.

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha.

This explanation hasn't got the chance of a snowball in hell of
being correct.

There may have been a UFO sighting in the presence of a tornado,
but I am not aware of one.

Kaikoura is an area on the East Side of teh South Island of New
Zealand, some 50 or so miles north of Christchurch. These
sightings have resulted in publication of reports in the journal
called Applied Optics.

The following material was emailed to the newspaper:

Dear Editor,

I have read your report of the new tornado/gas theory of UFOs.
The author of the book which reports this theory implies that it
is applicable to the famous Kaijoura sightings of December,
1978.

I did the most thorough investigation ever done of the Kaikoura
sightings of December, 1978. I published several papers on it in
the 1980's. There was no tornado around. The idea of seismic
activity causing glowing lights was proposed soon after the
sightings. The explanation made no more sense then than it does
now nearly 20 years later. The two lighted objects which for
which there was the most film (16 mm color movie) were simply
too intense and of too long a duration to be glowing gas.
Moreover, the second of these pulsated at a steady rate with the
image changing from bright white that overexposed the film to a
dim triangular arrangement of lights with two red lights side by
side and an orange light above at the apex of the triangle. This
has been reported in the Journal of Scientific Exploration,
Volume 1, #2, of 1987. This is the publication of the Society
for Scientific Exploration (SSE) which recently publizedth
results of an independent panel that reviewed the UFO situation.
One conclusion of the panel was that UFO sightings deserve more
scientific study. The panel concluded there was no conclusive
evidence of ET presence based on the sightings they reviewed.
However, the Kaikoura sightings were not among those reviewed.
It is possible that their conclusion would have been modified
somewhat had the full New Zealand investigation results been
presented.

Yours truly,

Dr. Bruce Maccabee






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   Jul > Jul 4

                         Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 10:47:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 14:04:24 -0400
Subject: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4


>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4
>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:20:36 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


>>Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 07:53:52 -0400
>>From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>> I agree that having "ten best cases" or 5 or 1 or 100 would be
>> valuable. We should attempt to find at least one case that the
>> majority of contributers can agree remains UNEXPLAINED AFTER
>> EVALUATION and, furthermore, APPEARS THAT IT WILL REMAIN
>> UNEXPLAINABLE IN THE FUTURE, where explanation is in terms of
>> known phenomena (e,g.,explaining a UFO as ball lightning is
>> explaining one unknown with another).>

>This idea is interesting as far as it goes, but some ground rules
>would need to be set:.

>Which items of data in the report and which sequences of events
>in the report will require explanation?>>

>How many low probability events are explainers allowed to posit
>in their explanations as coming together to cause this report?>

>To what degree are explainers allowed to claim that the witness
>is a hoaxer, and what level of proof will be required before
>such an assertion will be accepted?

>Will all reports be required to be multiple witness?

>What minimum qualifications / reputation will be required to
>make a witness account acceptable?

>Will multiple independent witnesses offset lower witness
>qualifications?

>Will physical trace evidence or instrumentation be required?>

>You can see how hard this might be.

I never promised a "rose garden." Of course things are more
complicated than one might deduce from the little that I wrote.
However, it is in the argumentation that the skeptics (and
proponents) around here might learn something valuable about the
nature of the argumentation and some of the "operational
philosphy" of proving a case. You have indicated your experience
by the list of requirements you have suggested and by your own
choices for what the "rules of engagement" would be.

> The debunker will insist
>that they be allowed to reject any item of testimony they object
>to on grounds of a priori unbelievability, that any number of
>low probability events be acceptable, that a low threshold of
>proof for claiming a witness a hoaxer is essential, that
>multiple witness reports are no more evidential than single
>witness reports, and that the only acceptable trace evidence is
>a component of clearly non-terrestrial origin. The believer will
>insist that none of this is relevant, since the aliens have told
>him why they are visiting us, and that all witnesses are telling
>the truth without error, and that the speck of metallic material
>recovered from his foot is sufficient trace evidence. The
>scientifically oriented, open-minded skeptic such as myself
>might state.

>1) Only multiple witness cases are allowed.

Yes

>2) Witnesses must have some level of technical knowledge.

or at least a good education

>3) Witnesses must have a reputation of some value which is
>threatened by their willingness to report publicly. Previous
>history showing observational skills and personal integrity is
>required.

Yes, or at least being a credible adult.

>4) All data and events in the report must be coherently
>explained by any explanation and no more than one low
>probability event is allowed. No data may be changed or
>ommitted.

Yes, but if any data are "desired" to be omitted or modified,
arguments to justify same must be clear and acceptable (the
Double Edge of Ockham's blade play a role here, as elsewhere;
too many caveats or conditions on the data make the analysis
unsavory!)

>5) Misperception explanations will require a careful validation
>based on cognitive and perceptual psychology in the context of
>conditions at the time and the witness' qualifications.>

Yes

>6) Hoax claims will only be admitted when a history of hoaxing
>or practical jokes can be documented, or when the hoax has been
>admitted, or when an unequivocal attribution of the hoax to
>specific persons using evidence sufficient to convict for fraud
>is presented.

Yes

>7) Multiple independent witnesses reporting the same event or a
>nearly identical event within a short interval will be
>considered to offset lower technical qualifications in the
>witness.

OK

>8) Photos, radar, ground traces or lasting vehicle effects are
>admissible as physical evidence.

YES, but must be backed by testimony of a sighting at the time
the "physical effect" (radar, photo,landing trace) occurred.

For example., no photo images that appear only when the photo
was developed; (such as the Vancouver case presented to the SSE
review panel and ultmate rejected as proof of anything because
the witness did not see it!)

Radar only cases not considered unless several independent
radars are involved (e.g., Washington DC sightings, 1952) This
at least represents a starting point. Landing trace and other
physical trace cases (e.g., metal samples) must have direct
lineag back to a sighting unless the material is VERY bizarre.
(For example, alleged Roswell metal sample not considered
without direct traceability to Roswell crash or whatever.
However, a metal sample of "unknowium" or "unobtainium" or
"nevermadebymanium" would be worthy of study on its own.)

Abduction cases worthy of study if multiple witness to at least
part of it the events and abductee(s) recall UFO sighting either
before or after. Physcial traces remainins after would be
valuable, whether on the ground/surroundings where the abduction
occurred or on the abductee or both. Requirments for samples
(implants) same as for physical samples (metal or whatever)
stated above.






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   Jul > Jul 4

                            Alfred's Odd Ode #253

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 10:03:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 14:05:51 -0400
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #253

Apology to MW #253 (For July 4, 1998)

Think of folks that lived *way back* in, ancient, unguessed time
-- when humankind was fresh faced; when she lived in different
climes. Present deserts were once verdant in a time so long ago
that they're buried by eternity in drifts of time like snow. The
continents were closer, and they bridged themselves with land
where sea now washes liberally -- plains were mountains,
understand? And the arctic was the tropics, and a magnet
switched its poles, and the water rushed around them and then
slid into its holes.

They made their gods their explanation, and they showered them
with gifts, beyond the explanation of their own self worth or
thrift. They wrote a lot about them and they said it with aplomb
that the gods _DID_ walk among them, or Zecharia's been dead
wrong. They were literal -- non allegoric, and they _wrote_ it
as they _saw_ it. It's the only thing they did that worked; as
they _saw_ it they would _call_ it. And they wrote about their
awesome gods, and they gave them useful names, from the
strongest to the weakest, and then _on_ them laid their blame
<g>.

The biggest? Call him Jupiter! He's the king of all the gods.
He's the one with all the lightning bolts, and he gives the rest
a nod. Venus is his consort; she has him by the ear, and all the
rest arrange themselves behind her, to the rear. Venus was the
lessor god, of that there was no doubt. She didn't have Jup's
monstrousness, she didn't have his clout. She might trick him or
deceive him, but she'd pay the price if caught, she's the loser,
any battle where they struggled, or they fought.

Now, come on back to present time, and in the morning, walk
outside. Look east before the sun comes up upon a dark, but
cloudless sky. Jupiter and Venus, just two planets, out shine
stars! But one outshines the other; which is which gets rather
hard. Not hard for me, perhaps for you, I've seen them through a
scope! I have learned which one is bigger, that's what has me by
the throat! It's Jupiter that's _dimmer_, 'cause it spins so far
away; it has the low albedo, and its color makes it fade. Venus
is the _brightest_, so it _looks_ the bigger, still. It has the
high albedo and it's closer to us, Phil <g>.

That's where we have the disconnect, and a loss in continuity.
This is where we learn comeuppance, and we fill up on humility!

HOW DID THEY KNOW the *dimmest* light was the father of the
gods? HOW DID THEY KNOW when just a look proves Venus has the
nod! HOW DID THEY KNOW, when Venus looks the _biggest_, and more
blaming? HOW DID THEY KNOW the _sizes_ of the planets they were
naming?!?

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

Sitchin would argue that they would have to have been -- uh . .
. <ahem> . . . TOLD, yes, _informed_ by the gods that walked
among them as women and men.

Restore John Ford!


--
Explore the Alien View?

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake.







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   Jul > Jul 4

                             Re: Sheffield Facts

From: Max Burns <AlienHype1@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 09:15:13 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 13:53:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Sheffield Facts


After all the pontificating and procrastinating from David
Clark and his supporters, which even after I offered an olive
branch in the hope of stopping all the personal insults that
have been flying across the list vier posts, which although may
supply some sort of entertainment for the subscribers of ufomind.

Has only distracted from the case, and as you can be aware from
the previous posts from Andy Roberts and David they responded
straight away with more attacks on my character, followed by
more attacks on my research, which all in all is just an attempt
to discredit my research, why this type of behaviour continues
is not to uphold honesty and to sort out credible research but
quite the opposite,

For example, Mr Andy Roberts produces a bit of photo copying
Called the Armchair Ufologist, which basically is a non stop
tabloid type attack on all researchers who dare to actually make
a statement in which anyway mentions aliens, extra terrestrial
craft, or abductions.

Mr Robert's has even attacked the user's of updates this is what
his thought's are on the users of updates, "Its a constant
babble of half formed speculation, pseudo-truth and pseudo
religious yearning"

Very nice of you to share your thoughts with us all from your
lofty and aloof ivory all seeing all knowing tower, in your self
appointed position as guardian of truth or is it suppressor of
truth.

You see what I am getting at every single person who even
consider's or perhaps would dare to open there mind's to the
large amount of evidence that certainly does not fall into the
bracket of colored lights. or atmospheric phenomena etc etc.

Mr Robert's roll call of abuse in his last issue included, Max
Burns, Miles Johnston, Erik Morriss, Harry Harris, Tony Dodd,
Steve Gamble, Bufora,Mathew Williams and Stanton if you are
reading this post he calls you the unclear physicist. As well as
lot's of sarcastic comments on others including Jenny Randles,
Nick Redfern, Tim Mathews, the list goes on and on.

You see that under the guise of searching for the truth, Mr
Robert's feel's that he has the right to attack anybody who's
onion differs from his own and his group of ivory tower guards.

And as far as I am concerned that is Mr Roberts right, but
trying to force your belief's on every body else at the cost of
other peoples reputation is just not on.

Now back to the Sheffield incident. Mr Robert's and Mr Clark
have been shouting from the roof tops that they have solved the
case in no uncertain terms, and have conclusive proof of what
has occurred. but this is simply not true. in David's may i add
well written article entitled," The crash that never was"

David has reached no positive conclusion to his investigation
and left it open to a number of options, A Bolide meteor, Which
David knows that there was no space debris in the atmosphere
that night, a micro light club prank,(Hudson valley sightings)yeah
right, a drug drop, top secret craft test, and a covert low
flying mission.

As Mr Clark has no conclusive evidence about the night of the
24th March, with all the ufo sightings that night he should not
preclude the possibility that an extra terrestrial craft may
have been involved.

David also acknowledges that there were a number of UFO reports
to the police on the 24th March 1997 and the 25th March 1997
pertaining to the night of the 24th March. confirming that
Helen Jackson MP has indeed been lied to in the houses of
parliament.

And the last line of his article after coming to no firm
conclusions is "How long will the rest of us have to wait before
the truth emerges"

You must agree that making that comment is hardly the statement
of somebody who has conclusively solved the problem. And David
just seems to pass over the ufo sightings and as all good
hardened sceptics uses the usual ill decide and interpret what
the witnesses have seen to suit my own belief's.

And as he has no conclusive proof of what actually occurred, it
is an elementary rule of logic that you cannot prove a
negative. Coupled with the lack of conclusive evidence he should
not have precluded the possibility of extra terrestrial origin
of the ufo sightings on the 24th March 1997.

So there you have it the no conclusive proof no hard evidence
just the detailed multiple choice options none of which include
the possibility that the flying triangle was actually there and
a true ufo, whether this triangle was part of some top secret
stealth type project or et in origin is still open for debate,
but one thing is for sure, with the five clear independent
identical statements from people in the area and on the flight
path who have not seen each others statements, who all describe
the same object, never mind mis identification, these statements
are from people who have had close proximity sightings and are
not vague colored lights in the sky type sightings,there was
indeed a flying triangle present on the 24th March 1997.

With regard to comments that these witnesses have not had there
statements checked, this is not true, Miles Johnston has
interviewed and spoken to a couple of the witnesses as well as Mr
Mike Jarvis reporter for the News of the World,

I have made some new advances in my research, and I am steadily
progressing in the right direction to obtain conclusive proof
that a military jet has indeed crashed during this encounter.
And with the aloof and self appointed all seeing and all knowing
Mr Robert's and Mr Clark demanding that my witnesses be
interviewed by independent researchers,My witnesses will be
available to be questioned when the time is right which will be
soon, and not to your own timetable.

They will be available to people in a position to make comment,
who will not have already decided that the witnesses who although
believe what they have seen are mistaken, bold comments from
someone who has not spoken to the witnesses, a rush to judgement
if you ask me.

The behaviour of Andy Roberts and David Clark, is indicative of
the way hardened sceptics or debunkers are simply not willing to
entertain the possibility that we are in fact being visited by
various non human intelligence.

At least I stand by my Statement that we are being visited by
various non human intelligence.whether I am right or wrong only
time will tell and this truth is not to be meted out by the
likes of Mr Roberts Mr Clark and others of similar thoughts.
Although they are entitled to there own options, perhaps it would
be more productive if they concentrate on obtaining evidence in
there search for there version of the truth, instead of
attacking anyone who has a different version of the truth, and
therefore protecting there own version of the truth.

Whats the truth? I will keep the readers of UpDates informed, if
anyone has any personal questions about this incident then
please e mail me at

Alienhype1@aol.com

you can read my extensive research at

http://www.soft.net.uk/staffs/maxsecret/sheff101.html

http://www.pufori.org/articles/sheffield/index_nf.htm

http://www.skipnet.com/~visitations/sheffield/

http://www.sightings.com/ufo/sheffield.htm

Comments are welcome,

Max Burns






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   Jul > Jul 4

                           Re: The Duke of Mendoza

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 15:04:22 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 15:04:22 -0400
Subject: Re: The Duke of Mendoza




>Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 13:10:44 -0700
>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
>To: TORONTO LIST <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: The Duke of Mendoza


>Dear Sirs and Madames:

>Has anyone heard from the Duke of Mendoza lately?


In a recent telephonic communication, The Dowager Duchess
(Auntie Vi) imparted the following:

- His Grace is yet mightily miffed viz a vis the Government
  of Britain's decimation of His Armoury.

- His eyesight doth sorely reflect His inability to
  differentiate tween a window handle and a dead parrot
  It hath become the stuff of legend

- He is mightily vexed apropos the stance of British
  Telecomm t'ward members of the aristocracy whose
  country estates exist in the most inaccessible
  Welsh mountains. Intermittant static upon His Grace's
  telephonic lines doth wreak havoc 'pon His modi.

- He doth toil yet 'pon a new tome

Thus is His absence explained.

Or perhaps he's simply experienced the Experiencer experience?


ebk






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                         Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 13:16:45 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 16:02:25 -0400
Subject: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4


> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 19:19:55 -0500 (CDT)
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4

> From the papers I read, it's clear to me that new discoveries
> are being made about the universe almost on a daily basis. Old
> theories and best guesses are being overturned regularly. The old
> girl is refusing to sit still for her full physical, which makes
> it extremely difficult for any of us -- Davis, Swords, you, or me
> -- to fully know, or describe, the creature we're talking about.
> And, by extension, the role of the UFO within.

Good point, Dennis. And a perfect segue into something I've been
wanting to say -- that these writings by Swords and Davis put forth
theories. The theories have yet to be proved right or wrong. Therefore
they can't tell us what's true and what isn't.

The Swords theories are helpful when somebody says "Hey, how can these
reported aliens be humanoid? That's hardly likely." Swords can provide
theoretical reasons for saying, "Well, maybe they WOULD be humanoid."
Likewise, Davis is helpful when people see aliens in every
not-immediately-explained light. "You know, we can't be sure there are
aliens out there at all."

But these theories can't properly be used to give more or less weight
to (a) any purported UFO sighting, or (b) any UFO hypothesis. None of
us has any business saying "I don't think Aunt Matilda saw an alien
craft because Davis has a theory." That's putting theories above data.

Remember the old days when the Big Bang theory competed with Fred
Hoyle's idea of a steady-state universe? Hoyle didn't go around saying
"I reject the Big Bang evidence that astronomers at Adaliade
University say they've observed, because my theory says there wasn't
any Big Bang." (Hypothetical example.) I agree that UFO evidence can
seem a lot more tenuous than astronomical observations, but still it's
not proper to use theories -- no matter how many scientific footnotes
they have -- as reasons for accepting or rejecting it.

And, Dennis, I'm worried when you say:

> My doubts about ET visitation (apparently unlike you, I have
> some), when I have them, are driven more by the sorts of larger
> issues raised by Davis (and others -- yes, there is a so-called
> "New Astronomy"), rather than the number of (potential)
> civilizations in the galaxy or the immense distances between
> stars.

There's a danger here that you're using unproved theories to bias your
thinking. And Jerry Clark is in the same danger, if he cites Swords'
work in defense of the ETH. In the last analysis, ET visitation is a
factual matter -- either they're here, or they aren't. Theories can't
settle that. Only hard data can.

Greg Sandow







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                8,000-Year-Old Shoes Prove Cave-Dwellers Were

From: Joe Murgia <Ufojoe1@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 15:45:45 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 16:25:20 -0400
Subject: 8,000-Year-Old Shoes Prove Cave-Dwellers Were


http://www.cnn.com/TECH/science/9807/02/prehistoric.shoes/

8,000-year-old shoes prove cave-dwellers were well-heeled

<Picture: Shoes> Some of the shoes found are more than 8,000
years old =A0


July 3, 1998

Web posted at: 12:04 a.m. EDT (0404 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Ancient, 8,000-year-old shoes found in a
Missouri cave show that fashion in footwear is nothing new and,
in fact, is much older than anyone thought.

Scientists said Thursday that high-tech dating procedures
indicate that the shoes are at least 2,000 years older than
previously believed.

The shoes were found 40 years ago in the Arnold Research Cave in
Missouri, but, due to the mixing of deposits around the shoes at
the dig site, researchers were unable to assign an age to them.

Michael O'Brien of the University of Missouri and colleagues at
Louisiana State University used an accelerator mass spectrometer
to carbon-date the shoes. It dated the oldest shoes at up to
8,300 years old, the researchers reported in a study published
Friday in the journal Science.

"I was surprised," O'Brien said Thursday. "I would have guessed
3,000 but not 8,000. I thought it was so outrageous that I took
a second sample."

Some of the shoes were sandals with pointed toes. Others were
round-toed slip-ons. "Some of them were round-cupped heels like
on a bedroom slipper, others had sling-back heels like you find
on women's shoes," O'Brien said.



Cushioned And Durable

Most of the shoes were made with fibrous plants that could be
woven into a tough fabric used for the top, bottom and sides of
the footwear. O'Brien said the most common material was from a
yucca-like plant called rattlesnake master. The leaves were
dried and shaped into cording that was woven like modern-day
espadrilles.

<Picture: Shoe>Both sandal and slip-on styles were found =A0

There were also comfort innovations. The moccasins were
cushioned with grass that functioned "like a Dr. Scholl's foot
pad," said O'Brien.

"There's nothing new under the sun," he said. "Some of these
shoes you would swear were made in a Mexican market."

The shoes were also very durable, he said. Of 35 samples
recovered, 20 were complete or nearly complete. Even though the
shoes spanned thousands of years, O'Brien said the basic
craftsmanship was about the same.

"They did not invent something flimsy that then got better over
time," said O'Brien. "The earliest shoe is every bit as
well-made and as complex as those from later on."


'They Wore The Heck Out Of These Things'

O'Brien said the variety of styles and differences in details
suggests that there may have been concessions to style or
fashion.

"There was no ornamentation or color that we know about, but my
guess is that these shoes were very stylish for the time," he
said. "We know that people then were wearing jewelry," and that
it was likely that such artistic interest carried over into the
footgear.

Only the moccasins were made of leather, and O'Brien said it is
likely that the cave dwellers did not use leather for shoes much
earlier than that.

The style and construction of the Missouri shoes are similar to
specimens unearthed from a nearby site in the Ozark Mountains
but are different from shoes found in caves in Kentucky. They
are also very different from shoes constructed by the Anasazi
people who inhabited Southwest deserts.

Footwear got hard use among the prehistoric Americans. They had
to walk most places since there were no horses. They had to hunt
or gather all of their food and to haul water back to the cave
-- all jobs that took much walking.

"Many of the shoes wore down exactly the way that our shoes do
-- the ball of the foot and the heel," said O'Brien. "In some
instances there were repairs where they wove fiber back into
them. Other shoes were just tossed, but they wore the heck out
of these things."


A Woman'S 8 1/2

Foot size, he said, appears to be much like that of modern
humans. There is no way to tell if wearers of the ancient shoes
were male or female, but the average length was about 10 1/2
inches -- about an 8 1/2 in modern American women's sizes.

"That suggests that these people fell within the size range of
people today," he said.

The cave, which is in a bluff not far from the Missouri River,
was a spectacular home by the standards of the time.

"It was really perfect," said O'Brien. "A great place to live."

O'Brien said that people lived there for hundreds of
generations, leaving layer after layer of debris: bone and stone
tools, animal bones, char from campfires and even some human
remains. Late in the occupancy, there were shards of pottery.

"The cave is so dry and has been for the last 10,000 years that
all this stuff is preserved," he said.

O'Brien said the finding was not a huge scientific breakthrough,
but interesting nevertheless. "To be honest," he said, "I think
people think this is pretty cool stuff."






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                    Re: A Remark By Eshleman On PBS Radio

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 12:47:56 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 16:10:12 -0400
Subject: Re: A Remark By Eshleman On PBS Radio


>Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 15:49:49 -0700 (PDT)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>Subject: A remark by Eshleman on PBS Radio

>A remark that Prof. Eshleman (of the Sturrock panel) made on PBS
>Radio's "Science Friday" interview was interesting. This is in
>regard to the SETI program having received a considerable number
>of signals from space that could not be identified as coming from
>any Earth source, and which did not last long enough to be
>considered really repeatable. His point on this was that these
>unidentified radio-wave signals (URS?) resemble UFO reports in
>this regard -- both unidentified. (His hope was that ufology
>might grow in respectability to the same level that SETI has
>reached, which is not asking for too much!)

>A point he did not make, however, is that UFOs are unidentified
>in many or most cases because they do not hang around long enough
>for the news media to photograph them from all directions, or for
t>he military to shoot them down and display them as evidence,
>etc.  This makes Eshleman's analogy even closer, I think.>

Actually UFOs ave been filmed/videoed by newsmedia a number of
times. However, the videos have been generally ignored. Note:
the famous new Zealand Film was taken by newsmedia! How about
the famous "Concord UFO" of 20 years ago or more?

None of the newsmedia recorded film/video/photos was discussed
at the SSE panel.

I guess the problem is that there hasn't been an event where
independent newsmedia have multiply recorded (as well as
multiply witnessed) something as definitive as an "Independence
Day" type saucer (not necessarily as large as 15 miles in
diameter, of course. Thirty feet wuld be large enough, thank
you.)





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                       Mexico City and 100 Witnesses?

From: Joe Murgia <Ufojoe1@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 15:39:39 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 16:25:37 -0400
Subject: Mexico City and 100 Witnesses?


Everybody,

Okay, now that it looks like the 8/6/97 Mexico City UFO video
may be (nothing is 100%) a hoax, a couple of questions need to
be answered.

I posted the following information to the list in March:

In March of this year in Gulf Breeze, Fl. at The Project
Awareness UFO Conference, Jaime Maussan said that close to 100
witnesses were ready to come forward and testify to what they
saw on the day in question. Where are these people now?

I believe that Maussan made some money on the sale of this video
to UPN. If he has knowledge of close to 100 witnesses who
supposedy saw this thing then why doesn't he even mention them
when shown the "new" evidence? If these people are never
accounted for then I think Maussan's motives must be questioned.
I happen to like the guy but that's irrelevant and this is an
important issue and he should be held accountable to what he
said. Right now, his credibility should be questioned.

There are other people on this List that attended Maussan's
lecture and can attest to what he said in March in Gulf Breeze.
I hope your memory is as good as mine. If not, the videos and
audiotape of his lectue are available from Project Awareness.
www.projectawareness.com

Jeff Rense should be commended for staying on the fence when it
came to this video. I think his gut feelings served him well.

Joe in Tampa





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                        Re: UFOs not worthy of study?

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 12:40:41 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 16:08:00 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs not worthy of study?


>From: Joe Murgia <Ufojoe1@aol.com>
>Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 19:50:48 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: UFOs not worthy of study?


>I think some of the more eloquent, detail orientated
>people on this list should write a response to this
>editorial from the N.Y. Post. Bruce Mac. and
>Stanton Friedman immediately come to mind
>among others.

>Editorial email - letters@nypost.com

>>From N.Y. Post Online Editorial

>http://www.nypostonline.com/070198/editorial/2874.htm>


>THE TRUTH ISN'T OUT THERE.


----------------------------------------------------------------

>"Panel Urges Study of UFO Reports," ran the front-page headline
>in Monday's Washington Post. According to that Post, an
>independent scientific review directed by a Stanford physicist
>said that UFO sightings need serious study. The implication: The
>UFO industry has now received the intellectual backing of
>serious scientists. >

>But the sad fact is that The Washington Post has been taken for
>a good long ride by one of the more superficially respectable
>organizations on the lunatic fringe - an association for the
>sort of credulous academic who overdosed on science fiction as a
>teen-ager, is a sucker for ESP and Eastern mysticism and is
>drawn to the kind of crank who claims that Martians built the
>pyramids.


THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE HAS BEEN SENT However, probably won't see
th light of day outside this List.

..........................

Editor,
New York Post
www.nypostonline.com/070198/editorial/2874.htm

Dear Editor,

  The Editor of the New York Post has criticized the
Washington Post for being "taken for a good long ride" by the
Society for Scientific Exploration. The Washington Post
publicized the report of a panel of independent scientists who
evaluated UFO sighting evidence and concluded that because, some
sightings were unexplainable, they deserve further serious
study.

   The tone of the editorial indicates that the editor knows
next to nothing about the present understanding of UFO sighting
reports, next to nothing about the history of the subject and
next to nothing about the intense debate continually being
carried on within the community of scientifically oriented UFO
investigators.

   The editor asks, why would "actual science professors put
their name to a report like this?" The implied answer is that
these professional scientists are "given to wild fantasies." The
editor presents this idea with certainty, even citing previous
examples of scientists with wild ideas (e.g. Isaac Newton,
Michael Faraday) without stating that he/she had actually talked
to any of the UFO panel scientists to assess their level of
"wildness".

  According to the editor, the SSE panel says the reason UFO
sightings have never been taken seriously is fear of ridicule or
because of a government conspiracy. The editor calls this a "big
lie." It is clear from this that the editor really does not
understand what has been going on. The fear of ridicule is real.
I was on a call-in talk show in the Washington, D.C. area and
heard Dr. Jay Melosh, one of the panel scientists and a UFO
skeptic, tell the talk show host that for a young scientist to
become publicly interested in studying UFO sightings could be
professional suicide. The implication is that such studies
should only be carrier out by tenured professors or scientists
with well established backgrounds in conventional science. As
for the government conspiracy aspect, it is clear from the
historical record, available to anyone including the editor for
review (e.g., the UFO files of Air Force Intelligence released
within the last 12 years, the UFO files of the FBI released 20
years ago and now on line at www.fbi.gov and the UFO files of
the CIA released some 20 years ago) that the US intelligence
agencies and the Air Force in particular took these sightings,
especially the ones by Air Force personnel, very seriously.
Furthermore, according to the FBI "X" file (yes, it includes
sighting reports entitled "Security Matter - X"; look it up in
the web documents!) in 1952 Air Force intelligence told the FBI
that 3% of the sightings could not be explained and that the
objects reported in these sightings "may possibly be ships from
another planet such as Mars."(FBI document dated July 29, 1952).
On the same day that AF Intelligence told this to the FBI, in a
press conference the AF General in charge of Intelligence, John
Samford, told the American public that all the sightings were
natural phenomena. This sort of contradiction between what the
Air Force would say privately and what it would say publicly has
led to the present state of confusion over just what information
the Air Force uncovered year ago. It is no wonder that the
citizens of this country suspect that they have not been told
the whole story.

  The editor correctly points out that UFO sightings have been
"exhaustively invesigated by genuinely openminded people over
and over again." The editor then states that "there is no -
repeat, no - convincing evidence of space aliens visiting the
earth in suspiciously Hollywoodesque flying saucers." I suppose
the crux of the matter here is not "Hollywoodesque" but rather
what one accepts as "convincing evidence." Under ordinary
non-UFO conditions multiple witness, daytime reports of
phenomena seen clearly and for considerable time durations (many
seconds to minutes) and perhaps supported by film, video or
radar would be at least mildly convincing to the intelligent
person. There are such UFO sightings (several of which were
evaluated by the panel and left unexplained) for which there
seems to be no possibility of misidentification, delusion or
hoax. At the very least these sightings point toward something
new, something unexplained. Some of these sightings also involve
descriptions of objects which seem to be constructed craft of
some sort. (Note: Hollywood, starting in the 1950's, has
followed the UFO/saucer sightings with the creation of
"Hollywoodesque" saucers, not the other way around.) It is
certainly true that the field of UFO research is littered with
the hopes, dreams and faulty theories of many people who "want
to believe," but the hard core of the UFO evidence does not lie
within this litter. If the editor would take time to look beyond
the Hollywood glitter and the tabloid press, the editor would
find that the UFO subject is grounded in much more solid
information.

The value of information is in what you do as a result of it.
One has the option to ignore it or to pusue it. UFO information
is of this sort. Clearly the editor intends to ignore it, which
is fine. However, the editor should apply his/her own criterion
of "sweet reason", leave out "true religion" and not criticize
scientists who do wish to pursue this information in a rigorous
manner.

Yours truly,
Dr. Bruce Maccabee





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                         Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 98 11:37:00 PDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 16:17:59 -0400
Subject: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4


> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 19:19:55 -0500 (CDT)
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4

> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4
> >Date: Thu, 02 Jul 98 12:44:20 PDT

> <Total snip>

> Jerry,

> Before I take the time to respond to your latest post, let me ask
> you two brief yes or no questions.

> 1) Does the word "condescend" mean anything to you? If so, then
> don't do it. Please. It merely tickles the tendency in the
> respondent to do likewise.

I apologize if I sounded as if I were condescending. I did
not mean to sound that way, and I know it infuriates me when
I felt as if I am being condescended to. I responded as I
did because I thought you were, to use the vernacular, jerking
me around, and I was, frankly, irked about it. You WEREN'T
jerking me around, were you?

> 2) Have you read the Mike Davis essay in The Anomalist 5? I'm
> pretty sure you have a copy, because I believe I sent you one. If
> not, it's a long weekend, so maybe you could stir yourself. And
> I'll read Swords's "Extraterrestrial Hypothesis and Science" in
> the 2nd edition of your Encyclopedia, which arrived last night,
> and for which, many thanks.

I read Davis' essay when The Anomalist arrived. I promise,
however, to read it again this weekend.

> I will answer one of your questions now, however.

> >And finally, a question: I'm curious. When was the last time you
> >took a pro-UFO position in any argument on this subject? Or is
> >that occurrence lost in the dim mists of antiquity?

> One pro-position I took was to solicit and publish Karl Pflock's
> article "UFOs: For RAND Use Only" in The Anomalist. I might also
> point out that it precedes Davis's article in the same issue. To
> some (except possibly yourself) that would indicate that I have a
> high tolerance for ambiguity.

> For another recent pro-position, see many of the articles
> included in my "UFOs 1947-1997: Fifty Years of Flying Saucers,"
> co-edited with Hilary Evans. If I weren't in basic agreement with
> them, I wouldn't have used them.
> (Sorry, but sometimes one has to state the obvious. I believe you
> even referred to it as one of the best books of the year, a
> laurel I doubt you would have bestowed on a book highly critical
> of the subject.)

Lemme repeat: UFOs 1947-1997 is the best book on UFOs published
in 1997, followed closely by Kevin D. Randle's overlooked
Project Blue Book Exposed. Both of these should be in the
library of any serious ufologist.

> For a forthcoming pro-position, read my next book, "A Field Guide
> to UFOs," co-written with Patrick Huyghe, and due out next year.
> You may be surprised.

I look forward to it.

> And my very next death-defying act of pro-UFO-position derring-do
> (when I eventually get around to it) will be to publish on this
> List a list of 10-20 cases suggestive of ET UFOs (drawn from the
> Field Guide), a pro-position a number of people on this List have
> proferred you, as well, to no avail to date.

As I have stated repeatedly, I do not think such an approach is
useful or helpful, and I also suspect it's a set-up. I've seen
Phil Klass use it repeatedly. As Mark Cashman wrote in a recent
posting, it is pointless to do unless both sides agree to a
whole set of ground rules. In practice what happens is this:

The debunker looks at the list and says, with mock incredulity,
didn't you know Case X was exposed as a hoax (or proven to be a
misperception)? He then refers to a chapter of a Klass book.
(Consider the recent example of John Harney on the RB-47 case as
but one example of the practice in action.) On to the next case,
and it turns out that Venus was responsible. How do we know
that? Blue Book identified it as such. And of course if you
dispute Blue Book, you are putting yourself at risk of being
called a conspiracy theorist. Any other case can be dismissed as
arbitrarily, and at the end of the effort, one is back to Square
One. If your curiosity is perverse enough, just read the
book-review columns of Magonia and Skeptical Inquirer, and you
begin to see the futility of trying to change certain sorts of
mind-sets with actual evidence. (In this regard I keep thinking,
as a particularly egregious example, of Peter Rogerson's review
of Ray Fowler's Allagash book in Magonia.)

Moreover, having demolished (however dubiously) the alleged Top
10 cases, the challenger implicitly gets to ignore all the
interesting patterns that give weight to the case for UFOs as
extraordinary phenomena. So the case for UFOs has been
artificially whittled down to a handful of reports, and when
those are dispatched, there is nothing left. As I have said
before, the UFO evidence -- as you surely know, Dennis -- is
both good cases and demonstrated patterns.

That is why, being a sensible man, I continually refer
challengers such as yourself (I am not accusing you, by the way,
of being a Klass-style debunker, only of conducting yourself
like one in this instance) to, for example, The UFO
Encyclopedia, where puzzling cases are discussed in all of their
detail and complication and where something like intellectual
inquiry, and not a pissing contest, occurs.

> My doubts about ET visitation (apparently unlike you, I have
> some), when I have them, are driven more by the sorts of larger
> issues raised by Davis (and others -- yes, there is a so-called
> "New Astronomy"), rather than the number of (potential)
> civilizations in the galaxy or the immense distances between
> stars. After all, if there's only one intelligent observer
> species in the universe (the Strong Anthropic Principle), it
> wouldn't make any difference how far apart (or near) the stars
> were.

The SETI literature is full of speculation about interstellar
voyages, colonization of the galaxy, and the notion that
millions of advanced civilizations exist in the Milky Way alone.
What I object to is your treating ufology as if it were some
unique form of perversity, as if its ideas and theories were
unconnected to anything else in the intellectual universe, and
thereby to be condemned. Talking on NPR yesterday, Von Eshleman
(he of the Sturrock panel, a retired Stanford professor of
electrical engineering) said something to the effect that
serious UFO research ought to be as respectable as the SETI
enterprise (to which, as ufologist readers of that literature
are aware, there are indeed interesting parallels and common
theoretical concerns).

> From the papers I read, it's clear to me that new discoveries
> are being made about the universe almost on a daily basis. Old
> theories and best guesses are being overturned regularly. The old
> girl is refusing to sit still for her full physical, which makes
> it extremely difficult for any of us -- Davis, Swords, you, or me
> -- to fully know, or describe, the creature we're talking about.
> And, by extension, the role of the UFO within.

My sentiments precisely. All I am saying -- let me repeat -- is
that honorable, reasonable people can disagree about these
matters, given the limitations of the knowledge we currently
possess. It is when debunkers and their allies in ufology refuse
to acknowledge that the ETH, right or wrong, is a reasonable
provisional hypothesis, and that reasonable people may be
inclined to that view (Swords' point and Clark's, repeated again
and again to no apparent effect; all we get are demands for 10
or 20 cases that "prove" ET visitation, whatever that means),
that I get riled and, finally, bored. In fact, I am more and
more inclined to the idea that discourse with persons who feel
otherwise -- I am not talking about you, Dennis -- is not worth
my time.






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                         Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 15:40:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 18:52:51 -0400
Subject: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4


> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 23:22:27 -0400
> From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> I did not hear the whole show, only th first few minutes and
> then the last 20 or so when I was on. From what I did hear it
> was clear that Melosh wouldn't bite the UFO bullet without
> having a bullet - i.e., hardware - to bite. In other words, he
> didn't believe that any of the sightings he heard about were
> evidence of anything beyond our physics, although he admitted
> that some of the sightings were "puzzling." As I recall, Mr
> Franklin asked specifically about several of the cases that
> Melosh couldn't explain. Melosh did agree that the subject
> deserves more serious study, although he did point out that
> young scientists trying to build up their credibility probably
> shouldn't get involved because of the "giggle factor" (not a
> term he used). Generally speaking h did not, so fa as I coul
> tell, dispute the published report in any way.

If he's skeptical but thinks UFOs deserve more serious study,
this is a wonderful, though small, step forward.

Greg Sandow






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                    Re: A Remark By Eshleman On PBS Radio

From: Melanie Mecca <natural.state@erols.com>
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 18:23:39 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 18:57:18 -0400
Subject: Re: A Remark By Eshleman On PBS Radio


>Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 12:47:56 -0400
>From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: A Remark By Eshleman On PBS Radio
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> I guess the problem is that there hasn't been an event where
> independent newsmedia have multiply recorded (as well as
> multiply witnessed) something as definitive as an "Independence
> Day" type saucer (not necessarily as large as 15 miles in
> diameter, of course. Thirty feet wuld be large enough, thank
> you.)

What about the CNN daylight filming in San Jose, Costa Rica a few
months ago?  Anyone seen hide or hair of that? Further, slightly
related, what about that daylight photo over Lake Arenal of the
large metal saucer entering or leaving the lake, taken by the
mapping expedition? Any due diligence ever done on that image?

Melanie






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                    Re: Anthony Lake Denies UFO Briefing

From: Stephen G. Bassett <SGBList2@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 16:31:58 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 18:51:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Anthony Lake Denies UFO Briefing


>Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 11:08:55 -0500 (CDT)
>From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Anthony Lake Denies UFO Briefing

Regarding the following Updates post ...

>>Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 01:38:57 -0400
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Anthony Lake Denies UFO Briefing

>>From: UFOMind Mailing List Archive
>>http://www.ufomind.com/misc/1998/apr/d17-001.shtml

>>Anthony Lake Denies UFO Briefing

>>From: Bob Durant <70232.17@compuserve.com>
>>Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 08:36:06 -080

_______________________


Denying it in an on the record interview with the press is what
is needed. Blowing off a difficult query by a citizen after a
lecture does not mean too much.  A note: given Lake's
background, his comments (if accurate) regarding Roswell and
Area 51 are not believable.

SB
PRG






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                    P1947: Sturrock Panel as Managed News

From: Moderator UFO UpDates
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 19:31:47 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 19:31:47 -0400
Subject: P1947: Sturrock Panel as Managed News


Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 10:11:44 -0700
From: Terry Hansen <twhansen@PSCU.COM>
Subject: Sturrock Panel as Managed News
To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Ed Stewart wrote, concerning the Sturrock
panel:

>This is not a regular news story that was picked up by the media and wire
>services who ran with it. I suspect this event is managed news.

I can tell you as a journalist with some 15 years in the
publishing business that precious little that gets into the
media is not, in some sense, managed news. The media industries
always have the bottom line firmly in mind, and they don't wish
to spend money funding investigative journalism, either about
UFOs or anything else. Consequently, most journalists simply
stand around waiting for a press release which they can grab and
write up for publication or broadcast. This makes them sitting
ducks for manipulation.

Governments and corporations learned this fact early in the
game, and they are far more adroit at managing the news than the
SSE will ever be. Objectivity, is a highly problematic concept,
not only in journalism but science as well.

Here are a few books which explain the forces that shape media
content:

 -- "PR! A Social History of Spin" by Stuart Ewen
 -- "Unreliable Sources" by Martin A. Lee & Norman Solomon
 -- "News from Nowhere" by Edward Jay Epstein
 -- "Making News" by Gaye Tuckman
 -- "News: The Politics of Illusion" by Lance Bennett

If you read even a few of these, you'll better understand the
powerful entities that keep concensus reality firmly in its
desired orbit. The SSE has every right to make its voice heard
above the roar of these professional spin meisters.

  -- Terry Hansen

=====================================================================
             Terry Hansen * Technical & Science Writing
            Bainbridge Island, Washington * 206-346-0238
=====================================================================
  "While our escape in solar-system astronomy from the blinkered
  medieval world is a reason for a certain measure of self-
  congratulation, we must be somewhat sparing in the adulation we
  heap upon ourselves, since almost exactly the same pre-Copernican
  errors are being made nowadays in the frontier area of astronomy,
  chemistry and biology."
                   -- Sir Fred Hoyle and Chandra Wickramasinghe
=====================================================================






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                        Re: UFOs not worthy of study?

From: Sean Liddle - Quinte-Eco <ecocon@intranet.ca>
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 09:33:05 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 19:52:12 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs not worthy of study?


>From: Joe Murgia <Ufojoe1@aol.com>
>Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 19:50:48 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: UFOs not worthy of study?

I think some of the more eloquent, detail orientated people on
this list should write a response to this editorial from the N.Y.
Post. Bruce Mac. and Stanton Friedman immediately come to mind
among others.

Okay, here is the problem in a nutshell. Many, many people,
believe in the existance of extraterrestrial life (myself
included). Many, many people believe that _some_ of these ET
lifeforms have the ability to visit earth and have done so
(myself included). Many people (not as many as "many, many")
actually study the phenomenonand believe there is enough
evidence to warrant further investigation and documentation of
results. A few people also tend to believe garbage like
"birthmarks caused by curses". This breaks down the UFO
believers into three groups:

Those that simply believe, those that believe that according to
scientific principles of investigation, the hypothesis of the
existance of UFOs has enough evidence to move it to a theory if
not a fact based belief and finally, the new-agers who believe
anything weird and wonderful so long as it replaces their
Christian belief system.

Why are ufologists not taken seriously by some of the media?
Because we do not separate the truth from fanciful conjecture.
We allow groups that spout "claptrap" and middle ages peasent
nonsense ranging from curses to demons to also represent our
hard researched opinions. We don't tell the media "look, don't
listen to them, they may be saying what we are about the ufo
issue, but they are a bunch of crackpots and are just mouthing
our words".

We need to have pure science and scientific process to be used
to simply prove the existance of ETs and their craft.

We need to avoid the wacky new age fringe beliefs and
concentrate on the main issue: Do Ufos Exist?

We need spokepersons who will simply state the facts and
evidence as it arises, and not in the same breath, just as the
media and neutral public start listening, start yacking on about
fringe topics. Then the media will listen.

sean liddle
Quinte Aerial Phenomenon Research Association
gorthos@technologist.com

Quinte-Eco Consultants Inc.
P.O. Box 400
R.R. #7 Belleville, Ontario
Canada
K8N 4Z7





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                        Re: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 16:34:15 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 08:27:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up

>Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 10:47:24 -0400
>From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

Bruce wrote:

[...]

>One of the things to check in in video movie or even a still
>photo is the comparison between the smearing of images due to
>camera motion. The UFO image smear should be the same as the
>background image smear. Careful edge analysis shows that the UFO
>image is smeared very little or not at all at the same time (in
>the same frames) where the building image smear is sizeable. In
>neither case is the smear very great because the camera was
>evidently operating with a rather fast shutter time (1/250 sec
>or so). This is why the differential smearing was not noticed in
>the initial analyses.

>Any acceptance of the video as real would have to include a
>logical explanation for this differential smear (I can't think
>of one!).

[...]

Say Bruce,

What if you were to allow for the following possibilities; would
a possible explanation then come to mind?

(a) Some UFO entities are able to cause a person to do something
involuntarily. Such as to look up for no apparent reason from
what they're doing and spot a UFO in a certain part of the sky.
Some are reportedly able to affect equipment at a distance, such
as remotely clicking a camera's shutter. Causing equipment
malfunction could be related, especially when an automobile's
engine suddenly comes back on again, etc.

(b) UFOs are capable of nearly instantaneous accelerations within
our time frame, and at the same time very controlled motions and
displacements, such as the UFO that was once reportedly filmed to
make a tight circle around a speeding rocket, or UFOs that charge
towards autos or airplanes and at the last split second avoid
collision.

(c) UFO entities like to toy with us at times, often with an
apparent goal of leaving crumbs for skeptics to latch onto.

Would these and related considerations cause you to rethink
making the assumption that the Mexican City UFO was moving
uniformly along a single trajectory? Or do such considerations
just bring to mind the attitude of: "If what you imply were the
case, what's the use of studying them?"

Jim Deardorff







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                          BWW Media Alert 19980704

From: <BufoCalvin@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 19:12:06 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 08:26:07 -0400
Subject: BWW Media Alert 19980704


Bufo Calvin
P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA  94596
Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Website: <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin">http://members.aol.com/bufo
calvin<;/a>
<A HREF="surprise link to Amazon.com">http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=048
6230945/bufosweirdworldA/<;/a>
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this
edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that attribution is made
to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with
strangers before you e-mail them something.  If you forward this, please make
sure it is clear that you are forwarding it).

July 4, 1998

Again, a slow week.  Rumor had it that Rosie O'Donnell was airing a segment
with Whitley Strieber this upcoming week, but I can't confirm that yet.  The
tabloids were all over her "coming out" as a UFO experiencer...she's a comic,
folks, wait until you see it and decide whether or not she is joking.  She
certainly may not be: she's friends with Dan Aykroyd, and they generally do
discuss UFOs when he appears on her show.  For the U.S. readers, I hope you
are having a good holiday weekend (oh, and happy Canada Day this last week as
well!).  Things will probably pick up in the next couple of weeks.

TELEVISION

THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL

Sunday, July 5, 1:00 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S WORLD OF STRANGE POWERS: STIGMATA
- THE WOUNDS OF CHRIST?
Sunday, July 5, 1:30 PM, ARTHUR  C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: INTO THIN AIR
(disappearing buildings)
Sunday, July 5, 2:00 PM, ANIMAL X: STRANGE EVENTS (includes the thylacine)
Sunday, July 12, 1:00 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S WORLD OF STRANGE POWERS: AN
ELEMENT OF THE DIVINE (dowsing)
Sunday, July 12, 1:30 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: CROP CIRCLES
Sunday, July 12, 2:00 PM, ANIMAL X: SUPERSTITIONS
Monday, July 13, 9:00 PM, SCIENCE OF THE IMPOSSIBLE: ALIENS, WHERE ARE THEY?
Tuesday, July 14, 1:00 AM, SCIENCE OF THE IMPOSSIBLE: ALIENS, WHERE ARE THEY?

THE SCI-FI CHANNEL

They've increased the SIGHTINGS re-runs, although they've gotten a bit quirky
with the schedule.  Figure 9:00 AM, 4:00 PM, and 8:00 PM most weekdays.
Sundays are typically 8:00 AM and 11:00 PM.

THE SCIENCE CHANNEL
Runs weird programming at 6:00 AM, 6:30 AM, 2:00 PM, 2:30 PM, 10:00 PM, and
10:30 PM.
___________________________

This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!"
____________________________

You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly
redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by
e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com.  You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to
Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert the same way. Also, please let me know if
there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, t
he week before.
_____________________________

**OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an
Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS
encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions:
however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece
or others presented under my own name.  For more information on OPUS, see its we
bsite at http://members.aol.com/josephxx3






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   Jul > Jul 5

                         Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 98 22:20:17 PDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 08:34:50 -0400
Subject: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4


> From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
> To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4
> Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 13:16:45 -0400

> > Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 19:19:55 -0500 (CDT)
> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> > From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4

> There's a danger here that you're using unproved theories to bias your
> thinking. And Jerry Clark is in the same danger, if he cites Swords'
> work in defense of the ETH. In the last analysis, ET visitation is a
> factual matter -- either they're here, or they aren't. Theories can't
> settle that. Only hard data can.

Greg,

I have NEVER said Swords' paper proves the ETH; I have said only
that it shows the idea is a perfectly respectable scientific
theory like other respectable scientific theories, awaiting
validation or disconfirmation. My quarrel has always been with
those who claim that (1) the notion is ridiculous and (2) those
who hold it suffer from some intellectual or emotional deficiency
which the critic is happy to diagnose.

If I thought UFOs had been proven to be ET spacecraft, I would
call them the latter, not the former. I have repeatedly made the
point you just made. When even you aren't hearing me, I begin to
wonder if I've lost whatever command of words I thought I had.

Jerry Clark








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                             Re: Sturrock Panel

From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 23:56:12 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 08:39:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Sturrock Panel

Regarding...

>Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 11:01:29 PDT
>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@FRONTIERNET.NET>
>Subject: Re: Re.  Sturrock Panel
>To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

[Taking the liberty of copying this to the UFO UpDates list}

Jerry wrote:

>The Sturrock panel report is the best thing that's happened in a long
>time, and the wide and respectful attention it has received is indeed
>gratifying.


Jerry,

Can a small group of scientists, in such a short period,
evaluate so few cases as an overall perspective of some 50 years
evidence for the possibility of any extraterrestrial contact?

Would you disagree that hardly constitutes a thorough scientific
study?

As an unmitigated PR coup, I personally have no objections to
that achievement. Many would agree with the 'Sturrock panel's'
conclusion that there is some related evidence which challenges
an obvious explanation. It is after all, the essence of the 'UFO
phenomenon' and its myriad facets.

However, didn't we know that already?

For the record, as a 'scientific panel', were they commissioned
to produce a report and paid as 'consultants'? If so, how much
and by whom?

>We don't know, of course, what effect this will have in the
>long term, but at least in the short, we have reason to hope.

What exactly are you hoping for?


Perhaps ideally, that influential, or at least significant,
scientists will campaign for a formalised, scientific
investigation of 'UFO' evidence?

What would that include, say...

'abductions by aliens and the ongoing hybrid program'
'crop circles'
'alien implants'
stigmatists
MJ-12
Ed's numerous, amazing, 'Gulf Breeze' photos
'men in black'
'black helicopters'
'men in black in black helicopters'
contactees
'cattle mutilations'
'Star Elders'
Whitley Streiber's 'experiences'
Reverse engineered, captured alien technology
Meier's numerous, amazing, 'flying saucer', photographs
Chupacabras
'Roswell'
The great NASA cover-up of [insert subject here]...

Etc..

No?

Then what of the above and similar material which has become a
mainstay of 'ufology'. Do we unequivocally distance ourselves
from it?

You _can't_ control it and once you start putting pressure on
anyone not to further the cause of patently dubious or bogus
evidence, that's a contentious and subjective issue.

So, how can we complain when scientists ridicule the entire
spectrum of 'ufology'?

It's not really their fault and if it's agreed we have
identified the villains, then what is 'ufology' doing about it?
What has it ever done about it? Kinda difficult when those same
villains are inherently promoted as integral?

Take any pending 'UFO' conference and illustrate why there is
'reason to hope' that the subject is approaching a 'scientific'
footing.

You have carte blanche.

The subject of the 'best 10 to 20 cases' is an ongoing
discussion and appreciating the dilemmas in citing a preferred
choice, or making any selections at all, if evidence is to be
investigated, there does come a point when, you know, the
absence of evidence poses some difficulties.

What evidence would you personally like to see presented to our
theoretical scientific committee - say 10 cases?


In the interests of science, would it strictly be necessary to
evaluate, by comparison, 10 cases which were once proclaimed as
'best evidence' of a possible ET contact, although later being
found to have a mundane explanation?

Might we see 'Roswell' offered as 'best evidence' under both
categories? !

What about a placebo?

Should we have a similar number of hoaxes, perhaps deliberately
created for this purpose, to examine whether our scientists are
easily deceived by false data? Wouldn't it be essential to prove
whether that was a factor science must account for?

>Congratulations are due all those -- ufologists and scientists
>-- who made this possible.

Whilst you may, understandably, consider the 'Sturrock panel's'
report as a 'red letter' day, we must note they concluded there
was absolutely no evidence for any ET contact during the past 50
years, plus.

Like, period...

Might we take a big step back and wonder if that isn't because
there actually isn't any. Yet.

Or, looked at this way, if, ten years ago, it was suggested that
ten years hence, the next ostensibly scientific investigation of
the 'best' evidence, would conclude there was nothing to suggest
any ET contact, would you have thought, BRILLIANT!!!

Or perhaps have hoped for something more tangible.


I know it's a pessimistic overview, however, I do believe it's
also, alas, evidently realistic.

However, it only requires one case, whether historical or
tomorrow's, to be proven evidence.

Historically, as of today, what's the one case you would like to
see scientists focus on?


James.
E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com






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                        Re: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up

From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 23:21:40 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 08:32:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up


>Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 10:47:41 -0400
>From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up

>>While listening to Wednesday night's 'Sightings', hosted by Jeff
>>Rense, this evening (thanks Bill) I caught the erudite Michael
>>Lindemann dropping a gem.>

>>It seems that he ran into Jeff Sainio at the MUFON Symposium in
>>Colorado this past weekend. The reclusive Mr Sainio called up the
>>Mexico City footage of the 'Craft' going behind a large building,
>>on his computer and told Michael that he was absolutely in no
>>doubt that the footage was a hoax.

>It is true. Upon careful analysis we have determined that when
>the background building images are smeared by camera motion the
>UFO image does NOT appear to be similarly smeared. Very
>difficult (impossible?) to explain this situation if the UFO were
>a real object out there. This result has been known to the
>investgators (myself, Sainio, and Chip Pedersen) for over a
>month and I mentioned it at the Mid Atlantic MUFON SYmposium in
>early May. Furthermore, Sainio sent a letter stating his opinion
>to Walt Andrus about a month ago.

>However, we have held off publication pending analysis of a
>guaranteed fake for comparison. The fake has been created for
>use in Robert Kiviat's next TV show (he did the alien autopsy
>and last summer's "best video evidence") in a couple of weeks.
>(Kiviat would not release to us a copy of the fake video until
>just before his show airs).


Bruce,

Not my intention to be in anyway offending, but I find hard to
swallow the fact that yourself and a couple of experts have been
in the knowing of some decisive new data on the Mexico video and
that the facts become public in such an indirect (and perhaps
lucky) manner.

Especially when you said yourself in concluding your November
1997 analysis of the Mexico video:

>TO BE REVISED AS INFORMATION BECOMES AVAILABLE

I can't understand why nobody triggered a red flag at the time
(more than a month ago!?).

How can this be possible since this looks like definitive
evidence  And can this...

> pending analysis of a
>guaranteed fake for comparison

justify holding off on the evidence. If you can't reproduce a
fake then it's not a fake

My mind is a blank.

Serge Salvaille







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              The Tent Footage - Names Revealed Of The Alleged

From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 00:54:16 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 08:54:00 -0400
Subject: The Tent Footage - Names Revealed Of The Alleged


Dear Colleagues,

In the hope that some of you out there might be able to assist
us with our research we are now releasing, for the first time,
those allegedly involved in faking the 'tent footage' part of
Ray Santilli's film. Below are all of the particulars that we
currently have about these individuals.



THE TENT FOOTAGE - NAMES REVEALED OF THE ALLEGED FAKERS
By
Philip Mantle And Tim Matthews.

In my interview with K.G. he implicated at least three
individuals as being involved and/or allegedly being responsible
for faking the 'tent footage' sequence of the alien autopsy
film.

Over the last few weeks we have been attempting to contact these
individuals by letter, fax and phone, but so far they have
failed to respond to any of our requests for an interview.

This leaves us with little option but to publish here their
particulars and request assistance with this research. For
example, do you know anything about these people, can you
succeed in interviewing them where we have failed. Any
information would be greatly appreciated.

According to K.G. the company in Milton Keynes who faked the
tent footage is called A.R.K. Music Ltd. This information has
been obtained by Tim Matthews of the Lancashire UFO Society from
Companies House in London.

A.R.K. Music Ltd have ceased trading but their address in Milton
Keynes was:

Suite 2, Witan Court,
Silbury Boulevard,
Central Milton Keynes,
Bucks.


Those alleged to have faked the tent footage at A.R.K. Music Ltd
are:

Keith Bateman of:
93 Eelbrook Avenue,
Bradwell Common,
Milton Keynes,
Bucks, MK13 8RF.


The other is Andy Price Watts of:

Music House,
77 Water End,
Eversholt,
Milton Keynes,
Bucks, MK17 9EA.


Keith Bateman is now listed as a director of Upbeat Leisure
Limited in Milton Keynes.

Upbeat's telephone number is:

01908 365300,
fax: 01908 376186.

Despite letters to both individuals at their respective home
addresses by recorded delivery, and phone calls and faxes made
to Upbeat Leisure (the person answering the phone answers as
Upbeat Studios) no replies have been received.

Another person mentioned by K.G. as allegedly being involved is
Bruce Barlowe from Leighton Buzzard. Bruce was the producer of
the 'Penetrating The Web' series of video's, one of which
featured the 'tent footage'. Bruce has been out of circulation
for some time and we are anxious to contact him.

We would therefore like to request the assistance of any and
all interested parties in getting to the bottom of this matter
once and for all. If you can help in any respect please contact
us at the earliest
opportunity.

Philip Mantle & Tim Matthews.1 Woodhall Drive,
Batley,
West Yorkshire,
Englkand,
WF17 7SW.

Tele/Fax: 01924 444049.
E-mail: el51@dial.pipex.com








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                Re: UFO Study on NPR Monday: Callers Welcome

From: Deborah E. Leech <dleech@mail.coin.missouri.edu>
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 07:13:51 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 09:01:28 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Study on NPR Monday: Callers Welcome


A nationally syndicated radio program on NPR, The Diane Rehm
Show, will air an hour-long program on the Stanford UFO Study in
their first hour of programming, Monday, July 6. I'm not sure
who the guest will be.

This program is open to callers, with an 800 number announced in
the first part of the program. We air it direct from the
satellite at 9:00am central daylight time. However some local
stations may delay the broadcast to fit into their local
schedule. Check with your local NPR station (usually public
radio station, FM) for accurate air time in your broadcast area,
as well as the 800 number for calling in to talk with their
guest (in case you want to be ready to call in at the beginning
of the program). I would guess that the lines will be jammed
early on this one.

NPR also aired another call-in program on the Stanford study, on
Friday, on Talk of the Nation's Science Friday. Their guest:

Von Eshleman Professor Emeritus, Electrical Engineering
Stanford University Stanford, CA

At their website:

http://www.sciencefriday.com

you can find the following links that they posted for their
listeners who want further information:

Articles Discussed:

"Physical Evidence Related to UFO Reports: the Proceedings of a
Workshop Held at the Pocantico Conference Center, Tarrytown, New
York, September 29-October 4, 1997."

http://www.jse.com/ufo_reports/Sturrock/toc.html

Related Links:

[6]The Journal of Scientific Exploration
http://www.jse.com/

[7]The Skeptical Inquirer
http://www.csicop.org/si/

[8]The SETI Institute
http://www.seti-inst.edu/

[9]The J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies
http://www.cufos.org/

[10]The Mutual UFO Network
]http://www.rutgers.edu/~mcgrew/MUFON/

[11]Got UFO Insurance?
http://www.ufo2001.com/

Government UFO documents

[12]from the FBI
http://www.fbi.gov/foipa/ufo.htm

[13]from the NSA (may be very slow)
http://www.nsa.gov:8080/docs/efoia/released/ufo.html

[14]from the CIA
http://www.foia.ucia.gov/scripts/popdoc.asp?docType=ufo

There is also a email survey on the Science Friday site for
listeners asking if we should have more studies of the UFO
phenomenon.

Best,

Deb


Deborah Leech
dleech@mail.coin.missouri.edu







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                    Re: Anthony Lake Denies UFO Briefing

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 07:50:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 08:56:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Anthony Lake Denies UFO Briefing


>From: Stephen G. Bassett <SGBList2@aol.com>
>Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 16:31:58 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Anthony Lake Denies UFO Briefing

>>Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 11:08:55 -0500 (CDT)
>>From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@freeside.fc.net>
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Anthony Lake Denies UFO Briefing

>Regarding the following Updates post ...

>>>Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 01:38:57 -0400
>>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Anthony Lake Denies UFO Briefing

>>>From: UFOMind Mailing List Archive
>>>http://www.ufomind.com/misc/1998/apr/d17-001.shtml

>>>Anthony Lake Denies UFO Briefing

>>>From: Bob Durant <70232.17@compuserve.com>
>>>Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 08:36:06 -080
>_______________________

>Denying it in an on the record interview with the press is what
>is needed. Blowing off a difficult query by a citizen after a
>lecture does not mean too much.  A note: given Lake's
>background, his comments (if accurate) regarding Roswell and
>Area 51 are not believable.

>SB
>PRG

I have no hesitation in calling him a liar if his comments were
accurately transcribed.  Saying he never heard of Roswell or
Area 51!  Hogwash!!!!

Bob







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                        Re: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 02:44:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 08:45:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up


>Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 10:47:24 -0400
>From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>From: Joe Murgia <Ufojoe1@aol.com>
>>Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 00:39:52 EDT
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up

>>>Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 23:54:17 -0400
>>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up

>>ebk wrote:

>>>It seems that he ran into Jeff Sainio at the MUFON Symposium in
>>>Colorado this past weekend. The reclusive Mr Sainio called up the
>>>Mexico City footage of the 'Craft' going behind a large building,
>>>on his computer and told Michael that he was absolutely in no
>>>doubt that the footage was a hoax.

>>Lindemann also said that Jaime (sp?) Maussan is willing to
>>consider this but Maussan can't get by the credibility of the
>>teenage girl Cassandra who claims she saw the craft and her
>>Father didn't believe her and called her a liar. He allegedly
>>believed her when J.M. came calling. The Father tells same
>>story. Supposedly Cassandra didn't watch the show where Maussan
>>debuted the video. Of course, this is impossible to prove.>

>>There were also other witnesses including a young boy. Are they
>>all lieing? What a sad world if they are. And what a terrific
>>bunch of liars because I saw the interviews and these people
>>seemed credible. Some were professional people from the area of
>>where the sighting or hoax took place if that's what
>>it is.

>>How reliable is Sainio? Who is he?

>>Joe in Tampa

==================================

Bruce wrote:

>Sainio is one of the best photo/video analysts in the
>"business." He began studying the video at my request and the
>results of our initial joint work on it were published in the
>MUFON Journal several months ago. He as spent MANY hours on this
>video, as I can attest, as have I.

Jeff is a very thorough guy. He did an analysis on some photos
I took a few years ago.  If he goes over everything the way he
did my pix then 'thorough' is one good way to describe him.

>One of the things to check in in video movie or even a still
>photo is the comparison between the smearing of images due to
>camera motion. The UFO image smear should be the same as the
>background image smear. Careful edge analysis shows that the UFO
>image is smeared very little or not at all at the same time (in
>the same frames) where the building image smear is sizeable. In
>neither case is the smear very great because the camera was
>evidently operating with a rather fast shutter time (1/250 sec
>or so). This is why the differential smearing was not noticed in
>the initial analyses.

>Any acceptance of the video as real would have to include a
>logical explanation for this differential smear (I can't think
>of one!). Since the cameraman is still, so far as I know,
>unknown, the camera, etc. cannot be checked.

Bruce, I've been an avid amateur astronomer for 26 years. I have
constructed telescopes over the years and learned a 'little
something' about optics. Let me ask you a question, could field
curvature (aberration) caused by the optics themselves account
for the difference in the amount of 'smearing' of the objects in
the field of view?

I'm transplanting knowledge of telescope optics onto videocam
optics so my question may not even apply. I will bow to your
expertise. But, if camera optics can suffer from the same types
of aberrations that the mirrors and lenses in telescopes do,
then differences _may be_ accounted for in this way. In
telescopes using mirrors the shorter the focal length the more
curved the surface of the mirror and therefore the further away
from the center the image is the more distorted it is.
(Curvature of field)

Telescopes using lenses or combinations of lenses and mirrors
(such as schmidt cassegrain or maksutov systems) are always
corrected for curvature of field. The 'amount' of correction is
what distinguishes 'quality' optics from mass produced junk. I
would imagine that the same applies to videocams. If this guy
was using a 'cheapy' videocam with poorly manufactured or
uncorrected lenses would that account for the differences you
are finding? I'm curious.

>The story is that the cameraman would not come forward because
he >was working illegally in Mexico City and would be sent back
to >Venezuela (or perhaps arrested and put in jail) if
discovered. >You should note that sizeable amounts of good old
American $$$ >were thrown around in order to UPN to buy the
rights to use that >video in "Danger in Our Skies." The
cameraman could have >demanded a pretty penny for convincing
proof that his video was >real.... I expect he could have made a
lot of money and gone >back to Venezuela as rich man, had he
played his cards right. In >other words, if this were a real
video it would have been more >lucrative for the person to admit
to having taken it (thereby >getting paid tens of thousands of
$$$) than to maintain >anonymity and continue working for
whatever company in Mexico >City. (Unless, of course, he works
for "Juan Valdez" and the >people who have all those "funny"
farms in Columbia.)

Your logic is plausible. But you also need to take into
consideration cultural influences. (Latinos are notoriously
family oriented,) and many Latino households are three
generation affairs. In my culture if one person screws up really
bad the whole family is tarred with the same brush. -Everyone-
is (socially) shamed by it. A good comparison is the culture of
the American deep South. If you screw somebody today, - his-
great grandchildren will hate -your- great grandchildren.
Hatfields and McCoys, shit sticks, that kind of thing. His
-stated concerns- about going public and how that may impact on
his family and career may be completely legitimate, honest, and
a reflection of deep cultural influences that demand that
'family' (first and foremost) and personal reputation are
-always- a major consideration. Ask any Latino on the list!

You may be right and a 'faker' is simply trying to hide, but
it's also important to give people both sides of the story when
making implications of intentional fraud publicly. Maybe the guy
meant what he said and he -really- doesn't want to expose
himself/his kin to public ridicule or humiliation. Or,
jeopardize his bread and butter gig! It (may not) necessarily be
a case of not taking advantage of commercial/marketing
opportunities because he has something to hide as you imply
above. Not fair Bruce!

In his original letter to Maussan he clearly stated that he
didn't want his family involved, or bothered by this. He went on
to say to Maussan that he was sure, (because Jaime had been a
public figure for so long,) that Jaime would surely understand
why he wished to remain anonymous.  All legit concerns and -to
be respected- if he so wishes.

BTW Bruce, 'Juan Valdez' grows _coffee_ not "funny stuff!" <G>
If you saw Peter Jennings' TV special/report, "The Money Tree"
you'd know that more Americans grow their own "funny stuff" at
home (for fun and profit) nowadays than is grown/imported from
old Mehico. You're thinking of the sixties man!  <VBG>

>Without a "first person account" of the video, the video will
>always be "wounded." Inasmuch as internal evidence seems to
>show signs of fake, at the very least it cannot be accepted as
>proof of the visual sightings.

Does the difference in 'smears' mean that the UFO was a "dropped
in" image? If so, does it show any of the other signs of
superimposed image work? ie; traps/seams, differences in pixel
size, lighting, color value, texture, etc.?

It just seems to me that if it was a fake, (superimposed or
dropped in from somewhere else) there would be -more- than just
one indicator. If the object wasn't a part of the original scene
then -evidence of tampering- would go further than a difference
in edge smear correct? You're the 'expert' Bruce, you tell me
man. I'm just trying to get it all straight in my head before I
dismiss it as a hoax myself based on what you are sharing with
us.

How strong is this difference in 'edge smear' in terms of
indicating/proving a sure hoax? Could optical aberrations in
the lens train account for it? The object did spend most of its
time off to one side. Field curvature at the edges could account
for certain 'visual' differences. (Lengthening/ foreshortening
of image elements) Again, I don't know if this applies to
videocam lenses so I'm just shooting in the dark.

>How, then, does it related to the visual sightings?

>The bottom line is that we don' know how to relate the video to
>the sightings, and we may never know if the videographer
>doesn't come forward.

Agreed. Let's hope this guy does come forward. If it's real,
it's an important document and piece of evidence. Would it be
possible to get Jeff involved in this thread? I'd like to hear
from him too on this. I'm sure he'd give us all an earful about
this video and I'm all ears! <VBG> Send him a copy of this
e-mail and we'll all hope he responds. I have been following
this one very closely from day one and I'd like to see it
through to a final conclusion if such a thing is possible.

Thanx Bruce, for the info and all the work that I know you put
into this video yourself.

Till I hear from you,

John Velez







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               Chat With Deon Crosby of the International UFO

From: "Yvonne Hedenland" <vonni_h@email.msn.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 08:22:08 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 09:50:04 -0400
Subject: Chat With Deon Crosby of the International UFO


Deon Crosby, Director of the International UFO Museum
& Research Center in Roswell, is dedicated to providing
information regarding the Roswell Incident of 1947, and
related information concerning UFO and Extraterrestrial
phenomena.

A key organizer of the town's yearly festivities and lectures,
she has moved to acquire collections, artifacts and research
material from top Ufologists through out the world.

The Museum announced this week their 5-year plan which
is comprised of an ambitious expansion program--not just
in buildings, but in worldwide service by becoming the
international center for information--incoming and outgoing.
A vision recently fueled by the donation of an archive
collection of UFO materials estimated to be worth $250,000.
Crosby will relate the events of the Roswell '98 Encounter
weekend in addition to discussing the future of this well
respected museum in a special guest chat on Tuesday,
July 7th at 6pm, PT.

This chat is available at http://forums.msn.com/UFO
The Briefing Room chat can be accessed by any IRC
client. The chat server name is publicchat.msn.com
and the room or channel name is #briefing.

The Netshow Audio interview with Deon Crosby is now
available at http://forums.msn.com/UFO






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   Jul > Jul 5

                             Re: Sturrock Panel

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Sun, 05 Jul 98 09:54:18 PDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 12:00:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Sturrock Panel


> Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 23:56:12 -0400
> From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
> Subject: Sturrock Panel
> To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net>

> Regarding...

> >Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 11:01:29 PDT
> >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@FRONTIERNET.NET>
> >Subject: Re: Re. Sturrock Panel
> >To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

> [Taking the liberty of copying this to the UFO UpDates list}

> Jerry wrote:

> >The Sturrock panel report is the best thing that's happened in a long
> >time, and the wide and respectful attention it has received is indeed
> >gratifying.


> Jerry,

> Can a small group of scientists, in such a short period,
> evaluate so few cases as an overall perspective of some 50 years
> evidence for the possibility of any extraterrestrial contact?

Depends on whom you want to listen to. The Robertson panel spent
a total of 12 hours deciding what it had already decided before
it walked in the door: that the subject was nonsense. The
decision the panel made influenced all of the subsequent course
of UFO history, down to today.

The Condon Committee spent about a year and a half investigating
reports and in the end could not explain something like 30% of
them -- a higher percentage, as Allen Hynek noted at the time,
than Blue Book conceded as unexplained.

The Sturrock panel got to listen to some of the best evidence
from some of the best UFO investigators and researchers alive
today. It came, it seems to me, to the only conclusion possible,
one that we ufologists have known for a long time: UFO reports
deserve to be investigated further, and attempts to explain them
away have failed.

> Would you disagree that hardly constitutes a thorough scientific
> study?

What do you mean by a "thorough scientific study"?  It seems to
me what we saw is scientific SOP. It looked at the evidence, as
other judging panels do in other areas, and decided that
thorough scientific study is desirable. The panel itself, of
course, was not set up to be a "thorough scientific study."  I
guess I don't understand your question. Were did the panel
represent itself to be a "thorough scientific study"?  Let's
hope, however, that it becomes as influential as the Robertson
panel. Well, we can dream, can't we?

> >We don't know, of course, what effect this will have in the
> >long term, but at least in the short, we have reason to hope.

> What exactly are you hoping for?

A thorough scientific study or, better, a whole bunch of 'em.
Aren't you?

Jerry Clark







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                Re: The Tent Footage - Names Revealed Of The

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 12:46:00 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 13:52:10 -0400
Subject: Re: The Tent Footage - Names Revealed Of The

>Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 00:54:16 +0000
>From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: The Tent Footage - Names Revealed Of The Alleged Fakers

>A.R.K. Music Ltd have ceased trading but their address in Milton
>Keynes was:

>Suite 2, Witan Court,
>Silbury Boulevard,
>Central Milton Keynes,
>Bucks.


Philip,

I believe that you will find if you look into this that this
address is merely an 'accommodation' address, and most likely
belongs to a firm of accountants. When I was publishing in the
UK my registered address was also Witan Court, Silbury Blvd.,
Central Milton Keynes, Bucks. That was the address of Reid &
Co., who were our accountants.

Bob







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                         Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 11:26:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 13:44:39 -0400
Subject: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4


>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin #4
>Date: Sat, 04 Jul 98 22:20:17 PDT

>>There's a danger here that you're using unproved theories to bias
>>your thinking. And Jerry Clark is in the same danger, if he cites
>>Swords' work in defense of the ETH. In the last analysis, ET
>>visitation is a factual matter -- either they're here, or they
>>aren't. Theories can't settle that. Only hard data can.

>Greg,

>I have NEVER said Swords' paper proves the ETH; I have said only
>that it shows the idea is a perfectly respectable scientific
>theory like other respectable scientific theories, awaiting
>validation or disconfirmation. My quarrel has always been with
>those who claim that (1) the notion is ridiculous and (2) those
>who hold it suffer from some intellectual or emotional deficiency
>which the critic is happy to diagnose.

>If I thought UFOs had been proven to be ET spacecraft, I would
>call them the latter, not the former. I have repeatedly made the
>point you just made. When even you aren't hearing me, I begin to
>wonder if I've lost whatever command of words I thought I had.

Hi, Jerry. I said "if he cites," etc, not that you actually had. I was
bending backwards to be fair. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I should have
said "Jerry would be in the same danger, if he ever cites." The day
you lose your command of words will be a bad day for ufology, but
thankfully it hasn't yet come.

Greg Sandow







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                             Re: Sturrock Panel

From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 13:41:32 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 13:59:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Sturrock Panel

Dear list,

In reading the recent N.Y. Post Online Editorial, I suddenly
realized that we have not heard from the "skeptical community" at
large yet. I wonder what's taking them so long? I envision Phil
Klass busy digging up as much terra firma on the panel's
scientists as he can find, and contacting various news agencies
and assorted other media, preparing to deliver another broadside
to our subject. I'd wager he senses we have our foot in the door,
and he fancies himself to be running at the other side to close
it. No doubt others of his ilk are preparing to follow suit. Btw,
has anyone else noticed a correlation between skeptics and rapid
or excessive blinking? Just wondering.

I have found myself wondering about the motives of skeptics. Not
the reasonable ones, who enjoy doing real investigative work to
find legitimate explanations for sightings, (which I hope we are
all doing) but the ones who have deemed themselves keepers of the
truth. Since they insist that scientific methodology shows there
are no unexplanable phenomena that could possibly lend themselves
to support of the ETH, one would think they would encourage
analysis to bear this out. And yet, they attack any who would
investigate, whether to prove ETH or even the existence of
unexplainable phenomena. What could possibly motivate such
behavior? Would their hackles relax a bit if we were to
investigate precisely the same phenomena and sightings in the
same manner, yet drop any mention of ETH? Would they be more
comfortable, and perhaps stop altering evidence or attacking
witness testimony as long as we didn't say aliens might possibly
be involved?

Greg

Strmnut@aol.com






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                 UFO Crashes And Water/Lake Ontario Research

From: Jennifer Jarvis <fierycelt@full-moon.com>
Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 12:21:38 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 13:50:14 -0400
Subject: UFO Crashes And Water/Lake Ontario Research


Hi Errol and List.

I have been reading a great many ufo "crash" reports in recent
weeks. I have noticed that it has been assumed, in some reports,
that because the craft has/have been seen to go into a body of
water, they have crashed.

Last night I reviewed the Shag Harbour incident which was
covered by the Sightings show a couple of years ago. It seemed
that the craft was able to travel under water for quite some
distance.

Judging by the number of sightings of unknowns going into Lake
Ontario, which is where our observation team does most research,
should we not consider the possibility that these craft are
perfectly able to function under water as they are above water?

So, could it be that these so-called crashes are just
submersions, as we term them?

One night, back in May 1997, I observed and filmed 15 unknowns
lining up and going into the lake in the space of 40 minutes.
These were very organized in their approaches and gave no
indication of crashing.

On January 20th. 1998, between 19.15 hrs and 20.15 hrs. I
observed 7 submersions from the north shore.

On the evening of March 16th, 1998, we observed 6 submersions
from the north shore of the lake.

On 23rd March, 1998, between 19.25 hrs and 20.00 hrs. we
observed 4 submersions.

On June 5th. 1998, we observed 13 submersions in the space of 10
minutes. At one time there were 3 Orbs visibly lining up to
submerge.

On June 22nd. 1998, observing from the south shore, east of the
Niagara River, there were 3 submersions in the space of 20
minutes. We saw these at much closer range due to our location
on the US shore.

Over the past 16 months we have observed and documented many
submersions. I was fortunate enough to film quite a few of the
events, and one such submersion can be found in the VIDEO
section of ORBWATCH.

Descriptions of these events can be found in the REPORTS section
of ORBWATCH. The most recent events are in the UPDATES section
of REPORTS.

Field research has been much hampered by very poor weather
conditions over the spring and summer here in Southern Ontario.
Fog, haze and mist have made it difficult to see any distance
and filming has been nigh on impossible.

****************************************************************


Last week our ORBWATCH team spent a very interesting evening
with Hugh Cochrane. Hugh is the author of 'Gateway To Oblivion -
the Great Lakes Bermuda Triangle'. I showed him video that I had
made over the last 16 months and he compared the events to those
that have been seen and photographed since the early 1970's.

We were very grateful to Mr. Cochrane for a most enjoyable
exchange of information, and look forward to further meetings
with him.

******************************************************************




Best wishes.

Jennifer Jarvis.



--
"It's a kind of magic, it's a kind of magic,
 A kind of magic...One dream, one soul,
 One prize, one goal...
 One golden glance of what should be."

From: QUEEN "A Kind of Magic" album (1986)

*******************************************
Please visit our website "ORBWATCH" at

http://www.per.to/orbwatch

*******************************************








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                                     Re:

From: Vicki Cooper Ecker <Ufovicki@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 13:16:19 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 13:56:52 -0400
Subject: Re:

>From: Black's Hole
>Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 09:57:31 -0400
>Subject: An Open Message To Whitley Strieber - Jerry Black

<snip>

>On or about February 10, 1998, Mr. Whitley Strieber and Ms.
>Vicki Cooper, who is a promoter for the annual Gulf Breeze

Hold it!! You're talking about VICKI LYONS, not me, VICKI COOPER
ECKER. FYI-----I'm not involved in any of this endless b.s. NOT
EVEN FOR A NANOSECOND!







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                 Aliens "Sloppier"? - Transcript of Hopkins

From: Moderator UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 13:38:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 13:38:27 -0400
Subject: Aliens "Sloppier"? - Transcript of Hopkins


The following segment is transcribed from the July 3rd 1998
edition of Jeff Rense's 'Sightings' radio show, in which Budd
Hopkins was interviewd, via phone, from Roswell, New Mexico.

The complete interview is available at:

http://www.audionet.com/shows/endoftheline/archive.stm



BH:  ..... I wanted to talk about some recent cases that I've
I've just begun to look into and these have been investigated
very thorougly. What they would indicate is that the UFO
occupants have been getting even a little sloppier. Unless
they're deliberately wanting us to see things.

JR: "Sloppier....."

BH: In the case that you mentioned earlier, the 'Witness' case,
we felt that the fact that people saw the abduction taking place
seemed to be a deliberate act on the part of the UFO occupants.

JR: I remember you making that point....

BH: That seems to be the case. But now I've got several cases
where we have witnesses who, at least part of the abduction, who
seem to have just seen it by accident. As if the aliens aren't
turning on the machine/box/memory or insight or whatever.

Just as an example; a woman was with her boyfriend in their
apartment Queens [New York] and she woke up in the middle of the
night (she remembered this the next morning) and saw people
standing on the roof. She saw these grey legs and immediately
the thought went into her mind, probably from the outside, not
to worry, even though it was three o'clock in the morning, it
must be people cleaning the leaves out of the gutter on the roof.

JR: Yes, of course.....

BH: So, she doesn't remember much more except that she seemed to
be very frightened when she woke up, as if certain other things
had happened she wasn't clear about. The long and short of this
is that a couple of weeks later the man who lived across the
street, a retired science teacher, said to her that he wanted to
know what she and her friends were doing out on the roof at
three in the morning.

We know from looking into this more thorougly, in terms of the
young man she was with and his recollections and hypnotic
regressions and soforth, that she was abducted. Here we have an
independant witness, unconnected with anybody, who saw the
aliens on the roof. I haven't had a chance to interview him yet,
but this is his story.

I have a similar case now in Ohio, Baria, [sp?] Ohio, where the
woman who woke up in the morning feeling that something had
happened to her the night before - very dim memories - went
outside and the next door neighbour said "What were all those
lights over your house last night? Who were those people in
uniform in the back were they police or what were they?" And of
course there were no police and there was no explaination for
the lights. But, the neighbour was quite agitated about this.

So, I have yet a third case near Altoona, Pennsylvania, that's
also quite similar, I don't really have time to go into it, but
I'm pointing these cases out to suggest there's a sort of
momentum to this. And the formally very covert style of
operation of the UFO occupants seems to be moving very slowly to
a sort of 'devil may care' carelessness.

JR: Ah, this is very interesting - this is a very, very strange
trend, to say the least.....

BH: It is and I think it is a trend. I think that that's the
correct word that you just used. There is something that seems
to be happening more and more often, where mistakes are made and
it's getting sloppier and perhaps.....

JR: If their protocols are breaking down Budd, what.....we can
only speculate, but it brings to mind right away the concept
that maybe they have done most of what they need done, and the
big change is about to happen and things are getting lax.

BH: That's a very valid interpretation. We really don't know
what to make, in an absolute way, of this. You know, very often
during interviews like this, I'm asked questions that make me
wish that we only had an alien here to answer them instead of me.

JR: Sure.

BH: But I do feel that it does constitute a trend. There are so
many people here now who seem to be remembering more of their
experiences as they happened, as if the enforced amnesia isn't
as frequently enforced as it used to be or as successfully
enforced.

So, I don't know what this means, but it's rather portentious I
think.

JR: Yeah, I would be interested to hear..... have you discussed
this with David Jacobs?

BH: Yeah. Well he's getting the same kind of thing. I think that
it's.....

JR: Oh Really!?

BH: .....generally being noted by other researchers in the
field. It just isn't something that's coming my way.

JR: You know, now that you mention it gells over here on this
end..... because I've heard that now fit that bill and I didn't
even stop to think that it might be something that might be
unique, but there are more graphic rememberances. Bizarre
multiple-witnesses to things that we wouldn't have heard about a
couple of years ago.....

BH: Right.

JR: Very interesting!


EOF

transcribed by ebk, 5th July, 1998












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                   Re: An Open Message To Whitley Strieber

From: Don Ecker <decker@ufomag.com>
Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 10:57:27 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 14:36:59 -0400
Subject: Re: An Open Message To Whitley Strieber


To all subscribers to the UFO UpDates Mailing list.

I recently read an Op Ed piece from long time ufologist Mr. Jerry
Black addressed to abductee Whitley Strieber. When reading it I
could not help noticing a very large glaring error. Mr. Black
wrote:

<http://members.xoom.com/ufobarb/jb04.html>

An Open Message To Whitley Strieber
by Jerry Black
July 1998

"On or about February 10, 1998, Mr. Whitley Strieber and Ms.
Vicki Cooper, who is a promoter for the annual Gulf Breeze
Symposium held in Gulf Breeze, Florida every year, appeared on
the Art Bell Show. Vicki made a comment that, just recently, a
young couple took a video of what appeared to be a steel or
metallic ball in the sky."


For those of you that may not be aware, Ms. "Vicki Cooper" Ecker
is the Editor of UFO Magazine. "Vicki Cooper" Ecker and former
partner Ms. Sherie Stark founded UFO Magazine, which is published
in Los Angeles, California, in 1986. Over the years UFO Magazine
has garnered a reputation for reporting on the UFO field second to
none. Over the years we have broken open many stories that today
make a large part of the UFO field. Vicki is not now, nor ever been a
promoter for Gulf Breeze, nor for any faction in the overall UFO
community.

Mr. Black was actually refering to "Ms. Vicki Lyons". Ms. Lyons
has been affiliated with PROJECT AWARENESS which has
been hosting UFO Conferences in Florida for several years now.

Mr. Black goes on to say;

"Whitley Strieber had seen this photograph taken from the video a
few days earlier. Upon seeing the photograph on Art Bell's
website, and listening to Vicki Cooper relate the story, Whitley
Strieber made a comment that maybe the doubters of the Ed
Walters photographs would now take a second look."

First, "Ms Vicki Cooper" Ecker has never been a guest on the Art
Bell Show, although she did years of commentary on my former
radio program 'UFOs Tonite'!

Vicki Cooper went on to mention the then upcoming March 20
symposium in Gulf Breeze, Florida. Of course, Ms. Cooper would
obviously be promoting this, as she has had a financial interest
in the success or failure of the Gulf Breeze Symposium, ever
since the early 1990s, if not even before that.

And once again "Ms. Vicki Cooper" Ecker has never had ANY
FINANCIAL INTEREST in any symposium ANYWHERE. Mr. Black means
"Ms. Vicki Lyons".

Mr. Black goes to great lengths to question motives and credibilty
on various UFO researchers and this is a valid question. However, he
should be much more careful with his own research and at least get the
names and people correct in his own research when placing something
like this out in the INTERNET.

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to write me at the
following email address.

Thank you for your time.

Don Ecker
Research Director
UFO Magazine
Los Angeles, California
decker@ufomag.com
www.ufomagazine.com
1-888-UFO-6242
decker@ufomag.com







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                   Re: An Open Message To Whitley Strieber

From: Vicki Cooper Ecker <Ufovicki@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 13:16:19 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 14:33:52 -0400
Subject: Re: An Open Message To Whitley Strieber

>From: Black's Hole
>Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 09:57:31 -0400
>Subject: An Open Message To Whitley Strieber - Jerry Black

<snip>

>On or about February 10, 1998, Mr. Whitley Strieber and Ms.
>Vicki Cooper, who is a promoter for the annual Gulf Breeze

Hold it!! You're talking about VICKI LYONS, not me, VICKI COOPER
ECKER. FYI-----I'm not involved in any of this endless b.s. NOT
EVEN FOR A NANOSECOND!







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   Jul > Jul 6

                           Re: The Duke of Mendoza

From: Susan Baldwin <sblee@stc.net>
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 14:51:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 08:49:54 -0400
Subject: Re: The Duke of Mendoza


>From: Moderator UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net>
>Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 13:38:27 -0400
>Subject: Aliens "Sloppier"? - Transcript of Hopkins

>In a recent telephonic communication, The Dowager Duchess
>(Auntie Vi) imparted the following:

>- His Grace is yet mightily miffed viz a vis the Government
>  of Britain's decimation of His Armoury.

>- His eyesight doth sorely reflect His inability to
>  differentiate tween a window handle and a dead parrot
>  It hath become the stuff of legend

>- He is mightily vexed apropos the stance of British
>  Telecomm t'ward members of the aristocracy whose
>  country estates exist in the most inaccessible
>  Welsh mountains. Intermittant static upon His Grace's
>  telephonic lines doth wreak havoc 'pon His modi.

>- He doth toil yet 'pon a new tome
>Thus is His absence explained.
>Or perhaps he's simply experienced the Experiencer experience?

>ebk


Faugh, what do you expect of the aristocracy.....
the modi problem is aggravated by inbreeding I'm sure.
No doubt the loss of the Armory is connected somehow
with the dead parrot  - they ARE a protected species.
This serves to remind me how very thankful we should
be here in the colonies for independence day!!

(just kidding I'm sure)
Susan





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                      Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

From: RobIrving@aol.com
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 16:04:00 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 08:55:12 -0400
Subject: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'


> To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>  From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>  Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'
>  Date: Thu, 02 Jul 98 10:26:38 PDT

Jerry,

>  Let me put it this way:  Answer yes or no:  A reasonable
>  person, without recourse to mere belief (i.e., faith), can
>  look at the UFO evidence and see -- rightly or wrongly --
>  ossible evidence of extraterrestrial visitation.  A
>  yes answer will get you an apology from me.

I would be alarmed if no-one were looking at whatever evidence
exists with an eye to ET as a possible cause. In that sense, I
see the ETH as viable, just as I see the PSH as viable. My
recoil from the ETH stems from over-exposure to those who pay
lip-service to the word 'hypothesis' while spouting off in terms
that proof, or *hard* evidence is an accepted given, or even
invoking Occam's Razor in a vain 'scientific' attempt to justify
it.

Granted, I've never heard Michael Hesemann use the term 'ETH',
but I've seen others of his ilk use it, as if by couching their
beliefs in scientific terms it gives them credence. All I'm
asking here is at which point along the continuum between
acceptance and denial is the ETH currently *enjoying* its
existence.

Note the emphasis on 'enjoying'. By this I mean that judging by
the amount of books, videos, etc, on the market one could be
forgiven for thinking that ufologists see science - if they
genuinely care for it at all - as being decided by general
consensus (the more people believing it the better) - a rather
old-fashioned viewpoint that leads us into the exact same
problems of reasonable acceptance we've been discussing here,
albeit from the other side of convention.

The way your question is worded places the ETH firmly on middle
ground, and I have no problem with that, so I guess my answer is
"yes" - no need to apologise. But naturally I have
reservations...

Furthermore, I don't see the PSH as being in total opposition to
the ETH, as you seem to when you equate it with mere
'debunking'. It makes me wonder about your own prejudice when
you say this, as well as reaffirming the feeling I have that a
majority of ETHers are pathological either/orists. None of the
people I know who are tagged 'debunkers' seem particularly
worried by the notion of ET landing on the White House lawn so
long as it actually happened as reported; that it wasn't just
another story with no evidence.

By the casual out-of-hand dismissal of the possible
psychological and social aspects of the UFO phenomenon, it
appears to me that you are resorting to the same level of denial
that you accuse your opponents of. Perhaps it's just a debating
technique but I certainly wouldn't place you in any top ten list
of most tolerant of ambiguity. I suspect that you have seen the
phrase, liked the sound of it and invested yourself with the
title. Worse, you think you live up to it.

That said, I agree that the most extreme UFO 'sceptics' can be
just as ridiculous in their denial as the most ardent UFO-as-ET
believer -- to me they are just different sides of the same
coin. As Aristotle said, there is nothing between asserting and
denying.

Rather like tug o'war, once that middle ground is established
I'll be as interested in which way the strength of evidence
pulls as any member of the crowd - although, being English, and
therefore not to be trusted in a crowd, you might catch me
putting my fist in the face of the man on the Clapham omnibus at
any sign of uncritical judgement on his part.

> There are several major papers refuting Festinger, whose
> theories have failed replication. (You might say, I guess, that
> Festinger's prophecies have failed.) As one critic writes, in
> the course of showing why ideas like Festinger's are simplistic
> and reductionistic, "As scholars we should approach religious
> groups as phenomena to be observed and understood in
> their own complexity, with at least as much respect for the
> complexity and integrity of our subject matter as a biologist
> or a physicist has for the phenomena of nature."

I'd like to see these papers. From the way you talk of one might
assume that all his ideas have been refuted. I'm not convinced
of that. It seems a rather convenient way of avoiding revealing
insights. I can cite a number of instances within ufology which
mirror Festinger's ideas.

> I'll ask my publisher to send you a review set if you get
> the answer right. What can you offer in return, if you
> get it wrong?

Dunno. I'm easy. But you didn't answer my question: You
initially stated that Festinger's Theory of Cognitive Dissonance
has been "pretty well challenged" by sociologists of religion.
That's a broad statement considering how little of the theory is
directly related to religion. Are you sure you don't mean the
derivative discussed in 'When Prophesy Fails' concerning
disconfirmation & proselytism?

It's an important distinction, which I would like to hear you
explain before I simply accept your wave-of-the-hand dismissal.
It would also put your question in context, which is why I
asked.

> > Don't like Deutsch? Historian Felipe Fenandez-Armesto says much
> > the same thing: '... trustworthy conclusions cannot be based on
> > unverified premisses'.
>
> Quite. I hope he spelled "premises" right, though.

He did, as do you -- both are right. Check the dictionary.

Rob






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   Jul > Jul 6

                       Re: Video of 'UFOs' Around MIR

From: Carlos Barboza <cbarboza@adinet.com.uy>
Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 22:24:02 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 09:13:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Video of 'UFOs' Around MIR

>Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 02:58:30 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Video of 'UFOs' Around MIR


> Hola Carlos,

> (Yo tenia un primo, -que murio- con el mismo apellido,
> "Barbosa!" El mundo si es pequen~o!)

> Please bear with the 'Espanol" por favor. I want Carlos to
> feel comfortable and to insure that he understands me.
> Besides, Spanish is one of the most beautiful languages
> on the planet and I love to use it (sometimes abuse it as
> I do English) at every oportunity.

> Carlos wrote:

> >I'm going to ask you no $25 for this, but instead I will upload
> >it to somewhere in the internet once I manage to convert it to
> >video file.

> Asi es como se hacen las cosas! Loose translation for the
> Gringo's, "That's the way the boys downtown get things done!"

> Bravo Carlos!

> >I must contact a friend with a video-capture card first.

> If your friend is unable to do you the favor, just let me know.
> I will be happy to convert any files into a moviegif. or other
> format that will play well on the web for you. I'm sitting on
> an industrial quality Macintosh audio/visual workstation
> with all the bells and whistles. It is (I am) at your disposal
> if you need help. (Si necesitas ayuda, avisame. Estoy a sus
> ordenes.)

> By the way, . . . no charge. <G>
> (Hago el trabajo gratis.) <Sonrisa Grande>

> Best of luck and thank you. (Suerte, y gracias.)

> John Velez

Dear John (not Jhon, sorry for my mistake) :

Thank you very much for all your offers and explanations in
Spanish. My English is not very fluent for writing but I do
understand it well, anyway I feel very comfortable when you put
some words in Spanish, "ya llegara el dia en que todos hablemos
un mismo idioma" (translation: "the day will come when we all
speak the same language").

I'd be pleased to send you a copy of the tape for you to convert
it and upload it in your website if that could be possible, for
my friend is going to be out of Montevideo for at least two
months and it would take me some time to get someone else to do
the work. Please feel free to e-mail me directly to my internet
address if you want, so to know where and how to send the tape.

I do also have an interesting audio file which I digitalized from
the radio while a well-known (in my country) radio-speaker (right
words?) was having a multiple sighting (avistamiento, is that
right?) at night with many witnesses around him. I had the chance
to talk to him and I went to the place where they had the
sighting, talked to some witnesses and I could prove this was not
a trick.

Philip Mantle wrote:

Dear Carlos,

How can I obtain a copy of this video, please let me know.

Thanks,

Philip Mantle.
England.


Dear Philip:

No trouble to send you a copy of the tape if you're interested,
anyway I'm sure you're going to have it on the web very soon,
thanks to our friend John Velez. But please tell me your address
and I'll also send one to you for free, as soon as I can. I must
say that I have little spare time, for I have two jobs and I'm
only free on sundays (this is Uruguay, you know :))). That's why
I don't participate in the list actively although I get the
messages since two years ago.

Thanks for caring,

        Carlos

PS:  Well, at the moment I have both copies done, so I will need your
address where to send them.








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   Jul > Jul 6

                        Re: 'Eliptical' Crop Circles

From: "Leanne Martin" <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 16:51:38 PDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 09:04:33 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Eliptical' Crop Circles


>Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 10:36:08 -0400
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Eliptical' Crop Circles

>From: RobIrving@aol.com
>Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 22:44:56 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Eliptical' Crop Circles

>> From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
>> To: updates@globalserve.net
>> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Eliptical' Crop Circles
>> Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 20:01:45 PDT

>Leanne,

>I read Filer's comments with interest, but wondered about some of
>the (non-) specifics...

>>  Editors note:  Recent sampling of the crop formation and soil
>>  samples indicate high Electro magnetic and microwave effects
>>  have occurred within these fields.

>Do you know specifically what this is in reference to?

>>  One farmer in England who hired guards to watch his fields to
>>  prevent hoaxers from hurting his crops.  While under guard, the
>>  crop formations developed in 30 seconds to a maximum of five
>>  minutes."

>Do you know specifically where this is said to have happened?

>Rob

Rob,

Thanx for the reply. Unfortunately no, I have no idea as to where
Filer's File refrs.

I'm surprised by the lack of general interest on this issue given the
downstream implications (political & miltary) if my thoughts on this
particular use of orbiting technology pan out. If such beams can be very
finely targeted and made to track mobile targets, and without too much
atmospheric attenuation, the implications are enormous.

Regards,
Leanne Martin
Computer Engineer @ WANG GLOBAL Australia






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                  Re: Non-Sub. Post - 'Alien Recovery' Team

From: "Leanne Martin" <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 17:00:25 PDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 09:06:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Non-Sub. Post - 'Alien Recovery' Team


>Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 11:37:22 -0400
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Non-Sub. Post - 'Alien Recovery' Team
>Cc: Concorp@aol.com

>From: Concorp@aol.com [Name Not Known]
>Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 02:25:32 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Alien recovery team

>Ed Komarek of Thomasville,Georgia and Rob Bailey of Troy,
>Michigan  have formed a recovery team to excavate 5 alien
>skeletons from a remote glacial site located
>near the Alaskan/Canadian border.

>The skeletons were orignally discovered in 1938 by a member of a
>police organization while searching for a missing person.Recovery
>operations begin in July and members of the media and scientific
>community will be apprised of the search results.

Dear List,

Is this a hoax story?

If not does anyone have any info on the supposed original find? If so,
would you mind updating we late-comers?

Regards,
Leanne Martin
Computer Engineer @ WANG GLOBAL Australa







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                      Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

From: RobIrving@aol.com
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 16:04:07 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 08:58:15 -0400
Subject: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

>Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 23:21:40 -0400
>From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

Bruce,

>>many of the points
>>I've made to Sean do not oppose the idea that "myopic
>>conventionalism" <my words> slows down progress.

>Rob, you say you don't accept the ETH.  Fine.

Bruce, what really baffles me is how you can take everything I've
written and reduce it to that. I accept the ETH exists, and I
accept its right to exist. Sure, I'm not inclined to believe it
any more or less than any other single explanation. My interest
revolves around the way the ETH is presented and where it sits
within ufology.

Or where ufology sits within it? Whatever...

If you were to ask me if I accept the ETH has been proven, as in,
'UFOs are real (ET craft): here's the proof' I would of course
say no. As a hypothesis I'm easy with it. If ET landed on my lawn
this wouldn't make me accept the ETH as an explanation of all
UFOs.

>The first question
>to answer is this :  is there any case which you would accept as
>unexplainable in terms of known phenomena, said phenomena being
>generally characterized as either misidentification (of mundane
>natural or manmade phenomena or devices), mental phenomena (e.g.,
>delusions, "will to believe" overpowering rationalism,
>daydreaming, hypnopompic/gogic, "old hag," etc.) or outright
>hoaxes.

Yes, I accept my own experiences as unexplained in those terms,
inasmuch as they remain mysterious to me.  Why do you presume
otherwise?

>If there is no such case then I presume that you can offer an
>explanation for each sighting case that can be presented to
>you... and I don't mean a "garbage" explanation that falls apart
>upon analysis, I mean an explanation that withstands analysis in
>light of the available information on any sighting.

You're barking up the wrong tree, mate. I'm philosophically
opposed to explanations as being an ultimate justification of any
theory - I try to steer clear of them, mine especially. My
position, as I see it, is the back row of the peanut gallery. If
you had witnessed my recent talk at the National Museum of
Photography, UK, you would know that I am equally distrustful of
conventional, 'objective' explanations.

Rob






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                   Correction and Apology From Jerry Black

From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net>
Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 18:30:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 09:28:34 -0400
Subject: Correction and Apology From Jerry Black

Greetings EBK and List Recipients:

I recently transcribed an open letter from Jerry Black
regarding Whitley Strieber, and likewise posted it to his
website, which I have been retained to manage.

In his dictation, Jerry inadvertently called Vicki
Lyons by the name of Vicki Cooper.  He did not realize
this until it was pointed out to him by another friend,
and with a phone call in which he and I spoke this
afternoon.

Since he has no e-mail capabilities, he immediately
requested that I hastily post this message, to clarify
the matter. Needless to say, he was aghast at the error.

He wants to apologize to Vicki Cooper, and to the
folks who might have read the piece, getting the wrong
impression about her, from his inadvertent error. I will
be sending Ms. Cooper a copy of this apology as well.

I too want to extend my own apology.  Being QUITE
familiar with ufology, I should have realized the
mistake in the dictation and questioned him about it
before posting the piece to the website.  To be
absolutely honest, I don't personally know of Ms.
Lyons, and was depending on the accuracy of the
dictation.  I know and respect both Don Ecker and
Vicki Cooper, through years as a subscriber to
the magazine, years of listening to their radio
show, and through their applaudable efforts in this
field.  With the seeming abundance of "Coopers" that
are connected to ufology, I thought that perhaps it
was an unusual coincidence, that the names were the
same.  I DO know that Vicki Cooper (Ecker) has no
ties to the Gulf Breeze Symposium, and, in retrospect,
find my own failing in this matter very distressing.

In fact, Jerry wants to publicly thank Vicki, Don,
and UFO Magazine for allowing him the opportunity
to voice his concerns about Gulf Breeze some years
back.  He has no disregard, ill feelings, or problem
with Ms. Cooper, and has expressed his own respect
for her in our phone conversation.

I will make the necessary corrections at the wesite
immediately, with an explanation.

Once again, sincere, earnest, and humble apologies to all
concerned and affected, from both Jerry and myself.
This WILL NOT happen again in the future.

Thanks,

Glenn Joyner








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   Jul > Jul 6

                 Artificial Structure Discovered on Moon by

From: Mark LeCuyer <randydan@wavetech.net>
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 21:10:25 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 09:15:21 -0400
Subject: Artificial Structure Discovered on Moon by


Hello Everyone :-)

I received this message that is very important to all.

--------------------------------

Forwarding Message:

Everyone,

A HUGE MONOLITH has been discovered in CLEMENTINE data from an
official NASA  website! This MONOLITH is HUGE and looks like a huge
"spike" sticking strait up from  the lunar surface! In my opinion
there is simply NO WAY that this HUGE object pointing  up from the
lunar surface could be any kind of natural formation. It MUST be
artificial!

It sure is not any crash dummy, weather balloon, flare, or
atmospheric inversion!

For more information about this HUGE MONOLITH you can visit the
following website to see pictures, read updates about the MONOLITH,
and get links to the NASA site(s) that it is located at:

http://members.aol.com/phikent/orbit/orbit.html

Also, it is very important that as many people as possible with VRML
equipped browsers visit and inspect the MONOLITH at the NASA site
before it gets YANKED or ALTERED. If you have a VRML equipped browser
you can visit the following NASA site to see the MONOLITH from all
angles and directions at the following URL:

http://lunar.arc.nasa.gov/dataviz/vrml/clementine_8k.wrl


Note: of the two ends of a long narrow 3D strip; the monolith can be
found on the squared end.

Now, two more brief suggestions:

1) PLEASE share this information with EVERYONE you know and spread it
far and wide before the information gets yanked from the net or
altered. It is very important that as many people as possible know
about this huge monolith. This could be the information and proof
that forces disclosure of the UFO/ET reality once and for all!

2) PLEASE send this information to RICHARD C. HOAGLAND. He needs to
know about this information AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

Thanks for all of your help! Take care and God Bless all of you!

Best Regards,
William


From: Mark - Alien Astronomer
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583





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   Jul > Jul 6

                     Re: Mexico City and 100 Witnesses?

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 22:59:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 09:42:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico City and 100 Witnesses?


>From: Joe Murgia <Ufojoe1@aol.com>
>Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 15:39:39 EDT
>To: UASR@MyList.net, updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Mexico City and 100 Witnesses?


>Everybody,

>Okay, now that it looks like the 8/6/97 Mexico City UFO video
>may be (nothing is 100%) a hoax, a couple of questions need to
>be answered.

>I posted the following information to the list in March:

>In March of this year in Gulf Breeze, Fl. at The Project
>Awareness UFO Conference, Jaime Maussan said that close to 100
>witnesses were ready to come forward and testify to what they
>saw on the day in question. Where are these people now?

>I believe that Maussan made some money on the sale of this video
>to UPN. If he has knowledge of close to 100 witnesses who
>supposedy saw this thing then why doesn't he even mention them
>when shown the "new" evidence? If these people are never
>accounted for then I think Maussan's motives must be questioned.
>I happen to like the guy but that's irrelevant and this is an
>important issue and he should be held accountable to what he
>said. Right now, his credibility should be questioned.>

>There are other people on this List that attended Maussan's
>lecture and can attest to what he said in March in Gulf Breeze.
>I hope your memory is as good as mine. If not, the videos and
>audiotape of his lectue are available from Project Awareness.
>www.projectawareness.com

COMMENT: Brit and Lee Elders have told me they spent quite a bit
of time in Mexico city interviewing people. She sent me brief
comments on the testimony of about a dozen, I believe. However, I
have not been able to get full testimony. Nor have I gotten a map
showing the locations and reasonably sighting directions of these





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   Jul > Jul 6

              Re: Mexico City Fake [was: Lindemann & Rense Tidy

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 23:00:36 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 10:04:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico City Fake [was: Lindemann & Rense Tidy


>Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 16:34:15 -0700 (PDT)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>,
>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up

>>Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 10:47:24 -0400
>>From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>Bruce wrote:

[...]

[...]

>Say Bruce,

>What if you were to allow for the following possibilities; would
>a possible explanation then come to mind?

>(a) Some UFO entities are able to cause a person to do something
i>nvoluntarily. Such as to look up for no apparent reason from
>what they're doing and spot a UFO in a certain part of the sky.
>.Some are reportedly able to affect equipment at a distance, such .
>as remotely clicking a camera's shutter. Causing equipment
>malfunction could be related, especially when an automobile's
>engine suddenly comes back on again, etc.

>(b) UFOs are capable of nearly instantaneous accelerations within
>our time frame, and at the same time very controlled motions and
>displacements, such as the UFO that was once reportedly filmed to
>make a tight circle around a speeding rocket, or UFOs that charge
t>owards autos or airplanes and at the last split second avoid
>collision.

>(c) UFO entities like to toy with us at times, often with an
>apparent goal of leaving crumbs for skeptics to latch onto.>

>Would these and related considerations cause you to rethink
>making the assumption that the Mexican City UFO was moving
>uniformly along a single trajectory? Or do such considerations
>just bring to mind the attitude of: "If what you imply were the
>case, what's the use of studying them?"


I suppose if UFOs could do anything we couldn't rule out a video
that shows a UFO with a line above it...since the UFO could have
created the line within the elctronics of the camera to fool us.

In the Mex. Ciuty video..what really attracted Sainio's attention
was the remarkable correlation between the motion of the camera
and the motion of the UFO. That is, if the camera moved up, the
UFO moved up, etc.  This tracking was not perfect but very good
implying that either (a) the UFO knew which way the camera was
about to move and adjusted its position in the sky accordingly or
(b) the UFO modified the electronic signal within the camera to
make it appear to move with the camera. An alternative is that
the presumed hoaxer wasn't perfectly accurate in compensating for
camera motion when he electronically pasted the UFO image onto
the (presumed) real video background (that had been obtained
first, so the UFO could be added later).







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                    Re: A Remark By Eshleman On PBS Radio

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 23:00:02 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 09:43:35 -0400
Subject: Re: A Remark By Eshleman On PBS Radio


>From: Melanie Mecca <natural.state@erols.com>
>Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 18:23:39 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: A Remark By Eshleman On PBS Radio

>What about the CNN daylight filming in San Jose, Costa Rica a few
>months ago?  Anyone seen hide or hair of that? Further, slightly
>related, what about that daylight photo over Lake Arenal of the
>large metal saucer entering or leaving the lake, taken by the
>mapping expedition? Any due diligence ever done on that image? >

I guess these events, like many others, have faded into oblivion.
Perhaps the peope who get UFO video/film/photos such as these are
too "embarrassed" to treat them seriously. Anyway, I haven't either
hide or hair of them.






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              Re: Mexico City Fake [was: Lindemann & Rense Tidy

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 23:04:04 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 10:18:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico City Fake [was: Lindemann & Rense Tidy


>Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 02:44:24 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up>

<snip>

>Bruce, I've been an avid amateur astronomer for 26 years. I have
>constructed telescopes over the years and learned a 'little
>something' about optics. Let me ask you a question, could field
>curvature (aberration) caused by the optics themselves account
>for the difference in the amount of 'smearing' of the objects in
>the field of view?

<snip>

Dear John,

I understand your comments about curvature of field and also
other optical aberrations. They cannot explain this noted effect
in the video. The field aberrations are ":field depoendent", that
is, how much aberration depends upon where you are looking within
the field of view. As you are aware, typically the aberration is
greatest at the edge of the field of view. Anyway, such
aberrations are "static"... they occur at the same magnitude at a
particular field location each time you look at that field
location (which is an angle away from the optic axis). The
blurring I am talking about is dynamic, varying frame by frame in
the video even though the change in position of the UFO or
building image doesn't change much in the field of view..

>>he was working illegally in Mexico City and would be sent back
>>to Venezuela (or perhaps arrested and put in jail) if
>>discovered. You should note that sizeable amounts of good old
>>American $$$ were thrown around in order to UPN to buy the
>>rights to use that video in "Danger in Our Skies." The
>>cameraman could have demanded a pretty penny for convincing
>>proof that his video was real.... I expect he could have made a
>>lot of money and gone back to Venezuela as rich man, had he
>>played his cards right. In other words, if this were a real
>>video it would have been more lucrative for the person to admit
>>to having taken it (thereby getting paid tens of thousands of
>>$$$) than to maintain anonymity and continue working for
>>whatever company in Mexico City. (Unless, of course, he works
>>for "Juan Valdez" and the people who have all those "funny"
>>farms in Columbia.)

>Your logic is plausible. But you also need to take into
>consideration cultural influences. (Latinos are notoriously
>family oriented,) and many Latino households are three
>generation affairs. In my culture if one person screws up really
>bad the whole family is tarred with the same brush. -Everyone-
>is (socially) shamed by it. A good comparison is the culture of
>the American deep South. If you screw somebody today, - his-
>great grandchildren will hate -your- great grandchildren.
>Hatfields and McCoys, shit sticks, that kind of thing. His
>-stated concerns- about going public and how that may impact on
>his family and career may be completely legitimate, honest, and
>a reflection of deep cultural influences that demand that
>'family' (first and foremost) and personal reputation are
->always- a major consideration. Ask any Latino on the list!>

>You may be right and a 'faker' is simply trying to hide, but
>it's also important to give people both sides of the story when
>making implications of intentional fraud publicly. Maybe the guy
>meant what he said and he -really- doesn't want to expose
>himself/his kin to public ridicule or humiliation. Or,
>jeopardize his bread and butter gig! It (may not) necessarily be
>a case of not taking advantage of commercial/marketing
>opportunities because he has something to hide as you imply
>above. Not fair Bruce!>

>In his original letter to Maussan he clearly stated that he
>didn't want his family involved, or bothered by this. He went on
t>o say to Maussan that he was sure, (because Jaime had been a
>public figure for so long,) that Jaime would surely understand
>why he wished to remain anonymous.  All legit concerns and -to
>be respected- if he so wishes.

Thanks for your comments regarding the social issue.

>Does the difference in 'smears' mean that the UFO was a "dropped
>in" image? If so, does it show any of the other signs of >
>superimposed image work? ie; traps/seams, differences in pixel
>size, lighting, color value, texture, etc.?

>It just seems to me that if it was a fake, (superimposed or
>dropped in from somewhere else) there would be -more- than just
>one indicator. If the object wasn't a part of the original scene
>then -evidence of tampering- would go further than a difference
i>n edge smear correct? You're the 'expert' Bruce, you tell me
>man. I'm just trying to get it all straight in my head before I
>dismiss it as a hoax myself based on what you are sharing with
>us.

>How strong is this difference in 'edge smear' in terms of
>indicating/proving a sure hoax? Could optical aberrations in
>the lens train account for it? The object did spend most of its
>time off to one side. Field curvature at the edges could account
>for certain 'visual' differences. (Lengthening/ foreshortening
>of image elements) Again, I don't know if this applies to
>videocam lenses so I'm just shooting in the dark.>

Actually there is a more important effect which is what first
caught Sainio's attention: the rather strong partialy correlation
between the "hand vibration" motion of the UFO and the  vibration
of the buildings frame by frame. Here I am talking about motion
from frame 'to frame rather than relative image smear on a single
frame,   The camera is always moving around by some amount duie
to random hand vibration. The UFO also moves with respect to the
building background. Under these conditions one might expect an
occaionsal "perfect pan" in which the UFO image seems to stand
still in the field of view as the building images move. In this
video that sort of thing happens a lot..... and at a high rate
(frame by frame). Sainio discovered a considerable correlation
between the frame-by-frame motion of the camera itelf (as
determined by building image motion) and the motion of the UFO
image. He discovered this as he was making a stabilized image
video in which the building images stand still. Under these
circumstances the UFO and the DATE STAMP on the video (which is
at a  fixed place in the field of view) both move. Sainio noted a
considerable correlation between the vertical  motions  of the
date stamp and of the UFO. There are further details on this that
really require a paper...which Sainio might write (he has made
his correlation graph available to Walt Andrus and to the
Elders).
This correlation is a bit "too much" to expect for merely random
correlations between the UFO motion generally to the right and
the hand motion of the camera.
There is on point where one can see this effect by looking hard
without sophisticated software analysis. This is as the UFO
passes over the second wind sock. The UFO image makes a several
frame "jump" up and down...
and this is correlated with the date stamp motion, meaning that
the camera moved down and up a noticeable amount while the UFO
stayed at a single place in the field.
Such an effect is consistent with the use of a software program
to analyze the background video (which is of a real scene),
remove the image motion, calculate locations for the UFO image to
generate a uniform UFO motion against the background, and then
reintroduce the hand motion. If the program does not do perfect
image stabilization the residue of "incomplete stabilization"
will show up as a correlation between the motion of the camera
(as indicated by the motion of the date stamp as seen against the
background) and the motion of the UFO.

>>How, then, does it related to the visual sightings?

>>The bottom line is that we don' know how to relate the video to
>>the sightings, and we may never know if the videographer
>>doesn't come forward.

>Agreed. Let's hope this guy does come forward. If it's real,
>it's an important document and piece of evidence. Would it be
>possible to get Jeff involved in this thread? I'd like to hear
>from him too on this. I'm sure he'd give us all an earful about
>this video and I'm all ears! <VBG> Send him a copy of this
>e-mail and we'll all hope he responds. I have been following
>this one very closely from day one and I'd like to see it
>through to a final conclusion if such a thing is possible.

Don't know if jeff takes time for list correspondence.  I'll
mention it.

>Thanx Bruce, for the info and all the work that I know you put
>into this video yourself.

>Till I hear from you,

>John Velez

You're welcome. Yes, I did put in time!
And, while we're at it, heads up on Phoenix.

Thanks to cooperation from some witnesses...who don't believe the
flare hypothesis, I have been able to demonstrate that at least
some (and perhaps all) of the major light displays (non-moving or
very slowly moving orange colored very bright lights) are
probably flares. The triangulations that I have been able to
carry out for events on January 14, 1998, which didn't make a big
splash in the national media the way the March 13, 1997 (at 10 PM
sightings did), place the lights 60 to 80 miles from the
witnesses.... right over the Barry Goldwater Test Range.  The
March 13 video situation at 10 PM seems similar. THe March 13,
1997 moviong V shape remains unexplained. I am also investigating
a case of 1995 sighting with possible missing time. I am writing
a paper on the Phoenix light arrays. Won't be done for a while
thought. I will not be reporting on the 1995  case until I and
the witnesses are convinced we have "figured out" what really
happened.







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                        Re: 'Eliptical' Crop Circles

From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 20:41:17 PDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 10:25:35 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Eliptical' Crop Circles


>Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 07:54:28 -0400
>From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Eliptical' Crop Circles
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


>Well, having worked on portions of the "Star War's" research for
>the last 15 years I would have to say that IF there were a high
>power microwave beam weapon orbiting the earth (there isn't) it
>wouldn't be used to "burn holes" in agricultural crops in
>England or anywhere else.

<snip>

> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Reagan, being the
>reactionary throwback that all the liberal pinko's believed him
>to be, thought that just maybe the Soviets might lose total

Dear Bruce (& list)

How can you have such an open mind on the UFO issue/subject yet
display such an appallingly neanderthal attitude to people who
choose to voice an opposing political viewpoint by refering to
them as "liberal pinko's" (sic)?  It makes one feel very tempted
to ask, "What did you do for those 15 SDI years - push a
broom?", but that may be seen as equally derogoratory ;-)

>As for the "crop circles", I might also point out that the
>really interesting agriglyphs are not the circular or elliptical
>ones, but the highly complex structures consisting of circles,
>squares, spirals, straight paths, etc. which have been seen over
>the last 8 years or so, Thes odd shapes are far from what one
>would get by shining a beam downward at some angle. One would
>need, at the very least, a beam that can be scanned or a beam
>that can be shaped into a very complicated arrangement of
>intensities (like imaging a cookie cutter onto a field of
>grain).

This is the exact point that I was making in my original
post,i.e. that these could very well be targeting experiments
that are fine tuning a possible energy beam. The small
elipticals mentioned possibly being the result of a simple
'high-angle' test to test for attenuation of intensity through a
longer atmosheric path on to a readily photographical surface.

If my thinking on it is correct then having differently shaped
beams (squares, triangles, etc.)is pointless. Think about how
easily we can manipulate laser beams in disco light shows, for
example. Simply having a fine a circle shape as possible and
deflecting it appropriately (like the electron beam in a t.v.)
would be all that is required.

Also, that the more complex patterns that we are seeing are an
extrapolation of the original circles that gave the phonomenon
its name. As you say, in the last 8 years these designs have
gotten ever more complex. Why so? Now let me see . . . Reagan
pushes SDI in 1985, billions get poured into it and scare the
hell of Russia, your recent 8 year 'window of complexity' starts
in 1990 giving a 5 year tooling-up period. Sounds like a
reasonable hypothesis so far.

It is not necessary to "burn holes" into the grain fields just
to test a targeting system, but it could be intended for use
like the neutron bomb - to drastically alter the cellular
structure of an organism, leading to death, without destroying
its surroundins.

I note that you make no comment at all on my point that these
agriglyphs do not overlap obstructions - it would seem a
deliberate intention that they be in open paddocks and remain
unobstructed by trees, rocks, fences, tractors and anything else
that would ruin the image quality on a scale that is large
enough to be photographed from space.

Also, a broom pusher's "need to know" would only cover what bit
of floor
to do next.  <G>

Regards,

Leanne Martin

Computer Engineer @ WANG GLOBAL Australia.






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              Re: Mexico City Fake [was: Lindemann & Rense Tidy

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 23:01:40 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 10:03:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico City Fake [was: Lindemann & Rense Tidy


>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up
>Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 23:21:40 -0400

<snip>

>>However, we have held off publication pending analysis of a
>>guaranteed fake for comparison. The fake has been created for
>>use in Robert Kiviat's next TV show (he did the alien autopsy
>>and last summer's "best video evidence") in a couple of weeks.
>>(Kiviat would not release to us a copy of the fake video until
>>just before his show airs).

>Bruce,

>Not my intention to be in anyway offending, but I find hard to
>swallow the fact that yourself and a couple of experts have been
>in the knowing of some decisive new data on the Mexico video and
>that the facts become public in such an indirect (and perhaps
>lucky) manner.

>Especially when you said yourself in concluding your November
>1997 analysis of the Mexico video:

>>TO BE REVISED AS INFORMATION BECOMES AVAILABLE

>I can't understand why nobody triggered a red flag at the time
>(more than a month ago!?).

>How can this be possible since this looks like definitive
>evidence  And can this...

>> pending analysis of a guaranteed fake for comparison

>justify holding off on the evidence. If you can't reproduce a
>fake then it's not a fake>

>My mind is a blank.

Dear Serge,

Please don't let your mind go blank. It's bad for your brain.
(The synapses get lazy.)

When it became apparent two months or so ago that the video had
problems I was at that time  being promised by Kiviat that I
would have a comparison fake "soon" that he had requested for
comparison. I still haven't got it. If things had worked out as I
expected, however, I would have gotten it well over a month ago
and then published a paper. As it is, I did announce this at the
Mid Atlantic MUFON Symposium on May 12. I figured that Kiviat's
fakers wouldn't hear about it as a result of telling that
relatively small audience (less than 100).

I also mentioned that Sainio has written a letter to Walt Andrus
and to the Elders. They told Maussan, so he was aware of it by
the time of the recent MUFON conference (but not as of the tiome
of the Project Awareness meeting).

I wanted to wait until I had the fake in hand before general
publication because I didn't want the guaranteed fakers of
Kiviat's video to know what we were looking for so we could see
if they made the same mistakes. However, that fake video has been
completed and so it no longer matters whether they know or not
(they can't modify what is already incorporated into Kiviat's
production.)

I will not state, as does Sainio, that I am, 100 % confident that
the Mexcity video of Aug 6 is a fake, but as I have said before,
it has serious problems that might only be explained, if at all,
by having access to the cameraman and the original camera.






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   Jul > Jul 6

                         Re: Sturrock Panel/skeptics

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 23:40:15 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 10:21:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Sturrock Panel/skeptics


>From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
>Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 13:41:32 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Sturrock Panel/skeptics

>Dear list,

>In reading the recent N.Y. Post Online Editorial, I suddenly
>realized that we have not heard from the "skeptical community" at
>large yet. I wonder what's taking them so long? I envision Phil
>Klass busy digging up as much terra firma on the panel's
>scientists as he can find, and contacting various news agencies
>and assorted other media, preparing to deliver another broadside
>to our subject. I'd wager he senses we have our foot in the door,
>and he fancies himself to be running at the other side to close
>it. No doubt others of his ilk are preparing to follow suit. Btw,
>has anyone else noticed a correlation between skeptics and rapid
>or excessive blinking? Just wondering.

This is a good point. You are probably correct. If you can't
attack the substance of the argument, attack the arguer (a.k.a.
"ad hominem"). You can bet CSICOP was shocked and several of the
members of CSICOP nearly "excremented in  trou"  when they saw
the basically favorable (to UFO investigators, not to extreme
skeptic/ debunkers) press reaction.

Imagine, whisper the debunkers!  After all these years some REAL
scientists (as opposed to the fake scientists that study UFO
reports, some of whom conclude ET is a reasonable explanation)
have lost their minds.  They say the study of UFO reports should
be an acceptable scientific endeavor.  Oh, the WORMWOOD AND THE
GALL (slight Biblical reference to that which is completely
annoying and distasteful).   What is civilization coming to, with
UFOs and mental affects on electronic coin flips and other
psychic stuff and bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster and
agriglyphs (more than just "crop circles"), metal bending,
astrology, near death experiences, acupuncture, herbal
remedies..... WHEN WILL IT ALL END?   Will civilization as we
know it die?

(Answer: yes, whether or not UFOs are ET; civilization is about
the take a quantum leap into some new direction as a result of
modern technology and innovation.
Interested?  Ask me to email you FRIGHT NIGHT!)

Well, anyway, you can bet CSICOP was quite jealous of the
exposure of SSE and they will be fighting back by enlisting their
members to say that (a) the scientists of the panel had the wool
pulled over their eyes by the UFO investigator/presenters and (b)
UFOs/sightings are merely cult-related activity or a result of
wishful thinking and do no bear any serious consideration.







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               Re: Aliens "Sloppier"? - Transcript of Hopkins

From: Robert Stirniman <robert@skylink.net>
Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 23:02:29 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 10:50:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Aliens "Sloppier"? - Transcript of Hopkins

> From: Moderator UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net>
> Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 13:38:27 -0400
> Subject: Aliens "Sloppier"? - Transcript of Hopkins

>The following segment is transcribed from the July 3rd 1998
>edition of Jeff Rense's 'Sightings' radio show, in which Budd
>Hopkins was interviewd, via phone, from Roswell, New Mexico.

>The complete interview is available at:

>http://www.audionet.com/shows/endoftheline/archive.stm

<snip>

> JR: If their protocols are breaking down Budd, what.....we can
> only speculate, but it brings to mind right away the concept
> that maybe they have done most of what they need done, and the
> big change is about to happen and things are getting lax.

Or maybe --

If their protocols are breaking down.....we can only speculate,
but it brings to mind right away the concept that they have
not done most of what they need done, and a change is due
to happen and things are getting desperate.






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                       Clarification from Jerry Black

From: Kenny Young <task@fuse.net>
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 01:02:39 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 10:44:44 -0400
Subject: Clarification from Jerry Black

From: Jerry Black

Mr. Black has asked me to forward the following clarification to all
concerned, regarding comments in his letter which appeared on UFO
UpDates - Toronto referencing Whitley Strieber.

        "I apologize for using the name Vicki Cooper, which was in
        error. The name should have been Vicki Lyons. Please note
        the clarification, and the change has been made at the
        web-site address located at -
                http://members.xoom.com/ufobarb/jb04.html

Jerry Black
6276 Taylor Pike
Blanchester, OH 45107
513-625-2613






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                            New Frontier Magazine

From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net>
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 01:25:12 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 10:46:00 -0400
Subject: New Frontier Magazine

List,

Please check the site below for articles in the New Frontier
Magazine.  There was no date specified but think I'm safe
to assume it's June or July '98.

Example:
An Interview with Steven Greer, MD
Director of the Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence
by Sw. Virato, Executive Editor, New Frontier Magazine

and

Physicist to Metaphysician
An Interview with former Astronaut Dr. Brian O'Leary by Sw. Virato

http://www.newfrontier.com/2/nfarticl.htm

Sue







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                     Ruppelt Index Approaches Completion

From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 00:18:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 10:42:35 -0400
Subject: Ruppelt Index Approaches Completion

Some of you may recall that I have been working on the index for
Edward J. Ruppelt's The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects (The
Report) for several months. Here is a small sample from the
introduction to the Research Index and Commentary:

Copyright =A9 1998 Gary Alevy

The Role Of Scientists
Another up-to-the minute controversy which is addressed by
information contained in The Report is the widely held belief
that the mainstream scientist, particularly the physical
scientist has ignored, never investigated the UFO. Scientist
readers of The Report will have the scales fall from their eyes.
The very latest development in this arena can be found in the
preface to the recently released Journal of Scientific
Exploration study of UFOs (Physical Evidence Related to UFO
Reports, JSE vol.12 no. 2 pp. 179-229). Peter Sturrock,
principal author of the Rockefeller funded effort, seems to be
saying on page 182 that there has never been any significant
investigation of the UFO by physical scientists.

"In December 1996, Mr. Laurance S. Rockefeller, Chairman of the
LSR Fund, invited me to review with him the status of our
understanding of the problem posed by UFO reports. We agreed
that the problem is in a very unsatisfactory state of ignorance
and confusion. I expressed the opinion that this problem will be
resolved only by extensive and open professional scientific
investigation, and that an essential prerequisite of such
research is that more scientists acquire an interest in this
topic."

The obvious implication of the paragraph above is that Sturrock
would have us believe that there has never previously been any
serious investigation by physical scientists. Many readers will
simply glide over the word 'open' and jump to Sturrock's
intended conclusion that there has no such investigation has
ever taken place. However, close reading of Sturrock's statement
reveals that what he actually says is that there has never been
any "open professional and scientific investigation". However we
know from The Report that there were serious scientific
investigations of the UFO by physical scientists. The key to
understanding Sturrock's paragraph is the strategic use of the
word 'open'. That is, the investigations that Ruppelt mentioned
were hardly open, not standard academic affairs, they were
clandestine investigations conducted by government scientists.
Does Sturrock understand that this may be true? We think the
answer is yes because of the use of the vital qualifying word
'open' in the paragraph above. The use of that word reveals to
us his certain knowledge of the information contained in The
Report. Is it possible that Sturrock has not read The Report,
not likely. Therefore he must qualify his statement by the use
of the word 'open'. He would hardly have used that word if he
was ignorant of any clandestine investigation. Groups of
scientists and industrialists, of the highest level, such as the
code named Beacon Hill Group received briefings on UFOs. Ruppelt
never disclosed the names of the scientists or organization
which comprised the Beacon Hill Group. However, as this
introduction was being written Professor Micheal D. Swords,
Professor of Science Studies at Western Michigan University made
the following disclosure in the Spring 1998 issue of the
IUR/International UFO Reporter, pages 12 and 31. (Swords holds
The Edward Ruppelt Manuscript Files for CUFOS in Kalamazoo,
Michigan).

"They were apparently scientists associated with Project
Lincoln, which later became the Lincoln Laboratory, and was
largely administered by the Massachusetts Institute of
Technology. One Lincoln division head was Dr. George Valley,
perenial member of the USAF Scientific Advisory Board and their
chief expert during the Project Sign era. Valley would most
likely have been one of the scientists present at Ruppelt's
briefing."

"Project Lincoln seems to have been a continuation of the
wartime Radiation Laboratory, and was vitally involved in radar
and photographic reconnaissance and electronic intelligence.
Much of this focused on air defense. It is intriguing that they
were keeping tabs on the UFO phenomenon."

Swords also notes:

"An important member of Project Lincoln, MIT's Dr. Julius
Stratton, insisted to the CIA - at a meeting with Assistant
Director for Scientific Intelligence Dr. H. Marshall Chadwell -
that the project be assigned to investigate UFOs. Dr. Alfred
Hill was suggested as leader of the investigation. Chadwell
ignored the suggestion and instead continued with his idea of
the Robertson Panel."

Any reasonable person would certainly agree that these were
physical scientists of the first magnitude and associated with
institutions of equal or similar rank. How the activities of
scientists of such distinction could escape the notice of
Professor Sturrock is almost as mysterious as the UFO itself.

*** end of excerpt ***






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                            From the FBI Web Page

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 10:54:57 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 11:13:38 -0400
Subject: From the FBI Web Page

A friend of mine pointed out this page from the FBI FOIA
documents at:

http://www.fbi.gov/foipa/ufo/ufo11.pdf

This document is on page 102.  The quality is fair and I have
attempted to reproduce the text accurately below.

       <><><><><><><><><><><><>

Date:  July 10, 1953

To:
Director of Special Investigations
The Inspector General
Department of the Air Force
The Pentagon
Washington 25, D.C.

From:
John Edgar Hoover, Director
Federal Bureau of Investigation

Subject:  Flying Saucers

The following information was furnished to the Atlanta Field Office of
this Bureau at 3:45 A.M. on July 8, 1953 by Mr. <blanked> reporter.  Mr.
<blanked> stated Mr. <blanked> Northeast, Atlanta, Georgia, telephone
number <blanked> contacted him at the office of the <blanked> and
advised as follows:

According to <blank> he and two other companions, while travelling in an
automobile on Bankhead Highway in the vicinity of Mableton, Georgia,
encountered three small animals which they believed had landed from a
flying saucer.  <W>aters advised as he and his companion approached, the
three animals started making their way back to what was believed to be a
flying saucer.  According to <Wa>ters, two of the animals <escaped> in
the flying saucer but the third was killed when hit by the automobile in
which Waters and his companions were riding.

According to <blanked> <W>aters displayed the animal which had been
killed to him at the <blanked> newspaper office.  <blanked> stated the
animal did not resemble anything he had ever seen before but it looked
as though it belonged to the monkey family.  According to <blank> the
animal was approximately 21 inches long, had a rather pointed head,
large ears and pinkish skin. <unreadable but not blank> states because
of the early morning hour he was unable to locate a scientist to examine
the animal, b<u>t he did have one of the leading veterinarians of
Atlanta, Georgia, examine it.

<snip>

      <><><><><><><><><><><><><>

The report continues through p.107 and includes a picture from
the 7/9/53 edition of the Washington Daily News.  The man who
reported the creature is identified as Edward Watters (a barber).
His companions were Arnold Payne (a butcher) and Thomas Wilson
(another barber). The picture is of poor quality and resembles
the creatures in the movie "Men In Black" that were making
coffee.  The vet described the creature as a "hairless monkey"
and Dr. W. A. Mickle of Emory University called it a hairless
member of the Rhesus Monkey family.

This interested me since I am from Atlanta and had never heard of
the incident before.  I plan to visit the public library here
this week and see if I can get a better picture of the creature.
Does anyone else know about this incident?  Maybe someone in the
DC area might like to get a copy of the Daily News picture.

What do you think the odds are that a couple of drunk barbers
shaved a monkey? <g>

Terry







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                      Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 98 09:21:57 PDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 11:10:36 -0400
Subject: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'


> From: RobIrving@aol.com
> Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 16:04:00 EDT
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

> >  To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> >  From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
> >  Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'
> >  Date: Thu, 02 Jul 98 10:26:38 PDT

>I would be alarmed if no-one were looking at whatever evidence
> exists with an eye to ET as a possible cause. In that sense, I
> see the ETH as viable, just as I see the PSH as viable. My
> recoil from the ETH stems from over-exposure to those who pay
> lip-service to the word 'hypothesis' while spouting off in terms
> that proof, or *hard* evidence is an accepted given, or even
> invoking Occam's Razor in a vain 'scientific' attempt to justify
> it.

It seems to me, based on what I've read on this list, that it's
debunkers, not proponents, who are "invoking Occam's Razor in a
vain `scientific' attempt to justify" their view.  Are we on the
same list?

> Furthermore, I don't see the PSH as being in total opposition to
> the ETH, as you seem to when you equate it with mere
> 'debunking'.

I have no idea why you're taking this complaint to me. As John
Harney, editor of Magonia ETH Bulletin (and I think we can all
agree that Magonia is the flagship publication of PSH ufology),
"Our theory is quite simple ... not one of the available UFO
represents a genuine sighting of an extraterrestrial
spacecraft."  Phil Klass and CSICOP could not have expressed
their view more succinctly.

> It makes me wonder about your own prejudice when
> you say this, as well as reaffirming the feeling I have that a
> majority of ETHers are pathological either/orists. None of the
> people I know who are tagged 'debunkers' seem particularly
> worried by the notion of ET landing on the White House lawn so
> long as it actually happened as reported; that it wasn't just
> another story with no evidence.

Speaking of pathological "either/orists," see John Harney above.
Most either/orists I see, and I have read a whole lot of UFO
literature since 1957, are debunkers and/or PSHers.

My own view, and nothing I've seen so far persuades me otherwise,
is that the ETH is the best provisional theory to explain the
hard evidence (radar/visuals, CE2s, multiply and independently
witnessed sightings, and the like -- the sorts of cases, for
example, the Condon Committee, even with all the ill will in the
world, wasn't able to explain), but it is also clear that other
things, conventional and unconventional, are going on as well.  A
pluralistic approach seems the most profitable.  How that
translates into either/orism is something I don't understand.
Again, I refer you to my essay "On Anomalous Experience" in the
introduction to my Unexplained! (1993).

> By the casual out-of-hand dismissal of the possible
> psychological and social aspects of the UFO phenomenon

What ufologist does that?  Names, please?  Obviously, you are not
referring to me.  Either that, or -- as I suspect -- you've not
read my writings and aren't reading carefully what I have written
here.  In any case, any dismissal of the PSH, as you would know
if (1) you knew my history in this subject and (2) you had read
what I've written about the PSH, is anything but "casual."
Frankly, Rob, it's not a little annoying being lectured by
someone who by his own admission doesn't know a lot about this
subject.

> it
> appears to me that you are resorting to the same level of denial
> that you accuse your opponents of.

Rubbish, rubbish, rubbish.  Please educate yourself before you
start spouting this sort of silliness.  Do me the courtesy of
acquainting yourself with my views before you tell me what they
are.

> Perhaps it's just a debating
> technique but I certainly wouldn't place you in any top ten list
> of most tolerant of ambiguity.

Exactly what of my writings have you read, Rob?

> I suspect that you have seen the
> phrase, liked the sound of it and invested yourself with the
> title. Worse, you think you live up to it.

How, given your admitted lack of familiarity with the UFO
literature generally and my writing specifically, would you know?

> That said, I agree that the most extreme UFO 'sceptics' can be
> just as ridiculous in their denial as the most ardent UFO-as-ET
> believer -- to me they are just different sides of the same
> coin. As Aristotle said, there is nothing between asserting and
> denying.

I agree.  Marcello Truzzi defines the debunker as a denier and a
skeptic as a doubter.  I am much closer in temperament to skeptics
than to uncritical believers.

> > There are several major papers refuting Festinger, whose
> > theories have failed replication. (You might say, I guess, that
> > Festinger's prophecies have failed.) As one critic writes, in
> > the course of showing why ideas like Festinger's are simplistic
> > and reductionistic, "As scholars we should approach religious
> > groups as phenomena to be observed and understood in
> > their own complexity, with at least as much respect for the
> > complexity and integrity of our subject matter as a biologist
> > or a physicist has for the phenomena of nature."

> I'd like to see these papers. From the way you talk of one might
> assume that all his ideas have been refuted. I'm not convinced
> of that. It seems a rather convenient way of avoiding revealing
> insights. I can cite a number of instances within ufology which
> mirror Festinger's ideas.

How would you know whether Festinger has been refuted or not,
when you admit you haven't read the papers in question?

Jerry Clark









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                     Re: Artificial Structure Discovered

From: Andy Denne - A.U.R.A. <aura@telekabel2.nl>
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 16:18:04 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 11:02:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Artificial Structure Discovered


> From: Mark LeCuyer <randydan@wavetech.net>
> To: "UFO UpDates Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Artificial Structure Discovered on Moon by Clementine
> Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 21:10:25 -0500

> Hello Everyone :-)

> I received this message that is very important to all.

> --------------------------------

> Forwarding Message:

> Everyone,

> A HUGE MONOLITH has been discovered in CLEMENTINE data from an
> official NASA  website! This MONOLITH is HUGE and looks like a huge
> "spike" sticking strait up from  the lunar surface!

...And Napoleon is dead...so? I'm sure the moon 'needle' isn't
like shocking news to anyone on this list.

>In my opinion there is simply NO WAY that this HUGE object pointing  up
>from the lunar surface could be any kind of natural formation. It MUST be
>artificial!

It MUST be artificial? As a result of what research do you make
this claim? What led you to believe this is definetly
artificial?

> It sure is not any crash dummy, weather balloon, flare, or
> atmospheric inversion!

No it's a giant piece of rock stickin' out of the ground. I don't
see any reason in the above to say the monolith is artificial.

> For more information about this HUGE MONOLITH you can visit the
> following website to see pictures, read updates about the MONOLITH,
> and get links to the NASA site(s) that it is located at:

> http://members.aol.com/phikent/orbit/orbit.html

> Also, it is very important that as many people as possible with VRML
> equipped browsers visit and inspect the MONOLITH at the NASA site
> before it gets YANKED or ALTERED. If you have a VRML equipped browser
> you can visit the following NASA site to see the MONOLITH from all
> angles and directions at the following URL:

Yanked or altered? By whom? for what  purpose?

> http://lunar.arc.nasa.gov/dataviz/vrml/clementine_8k.wrl

> Note: of the two ends of a long narrow 3D strip; the monolith can be
> found on the squared end.

> Now, two more brief suggestions:

> 1) PLEASE share this information with EVERYONE you know and spread it
> far and wide before the information gets yanked from the net or
> altered. It is very important that as many people as possible know
> about this huge monolith. This could be the information and proof
> that forces disclosure of the UFO/ET reality once and for all!

How does a stick of stone proof UFO/ET reality? I wish it did and
we could all go home knowin' we were on the right track all this
time...but fact is it proves nothin' of that kind.

> 2) PLEASE send this information to RICHARD C. HOAGLAND. He needs to
> know about this information AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

*sigh*

Mr.Hoagland....hmmm...you might have a chance there...

> Thanks for all of your help! Take care and God Bless all of you!

> Best Regards,
> William

> From: Mark - Alien Astronomer
> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583

A quick last question, what does an "alien" astronomer do?
Are you astronomer?

With kind regards,

Andy Denne
A.U.R.A.
The Netherlands





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   Jul > Jul 6

                      UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 27

From: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 06:44:29 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 10:55:20 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 27


     UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 3, Number 27
July 5, 1998
Editor: Joseph Trainor

BLACK HELICOPTERS ATTACK
A TOWN IN KOSOVO

     On Saturday night, June 27, 1998, several black
helicopters attacked Kijevo, a small town in
Yugoslavia's embattled Kosovo province, launching
rockets at and dropping bombs on positions held
by the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA).
     Fighting broke out around Kijevo on June 17
when KLA soldiers captured the town and locked
up 50 Yugoslav policemen and 100 civilian Serbs.
     Kijevo is located 24 kilometers (15 miles) west
of Pristina, the provincial capital.
     According to the AP report, "Witnesses said
Yugoslav helicopters, all painted black, strafed and
bombed the Kijevo positions for 90 minutes late
Saturday night."
     "The Serb Media Center, which releases official
Serb statements, said the gunners were providing
cover for the evacuation of four women and a child
from Kijevo."
     No list of civilian casualties was provided by
either the Serb Media Center or by the KLA
Information Center.
     The war began in February 1998 when ethnic
Albanians, who make up 80 percent of Kosovo's
population of two million, revolted against the
central Yugoslav government in Belgrade.
     On Friday, July 3, 1998, at around 5 a.m.,
a Yugoslav Army armored column rolled into
Kijevo and freed the prisoners.  The KLA
Information Center said their troops withdrew
into the hills prior to the assault.  (See the
New York Times for July 4, 1998, "Western
Officials Say Accord in Kosovo Seems
Unlikely," page A6.  See also the AP story
for June 28, 1998, "Besiege Village in Kosovo.")

UFO, BLACK HELICOPTERS
SIGHTED IN WISCONSIN

     Five black helicopters were seen flying northward
over Port Washington, Wisconsin (population 9,338)
by a local man who reported his sighting to MUFON.
     Bob Mueller reported that he "saw black
helicopters fly over his house on Saturday, June 13,
1998, and again on Sunday," June 14, 1998.  "On
both days, five helicopters flew over, then came back
a few hours later, heading south.  They looked like
UH-60 Blackhawk gunships with a capacity of about
a dozen troopers apiece.  There were no markings,
and their low-visibility paint scheme made them
hard to see."
     On Sunday, June 14, 1998, at about 11 p.m.,
Bob reported, "I went out to my car to get something,
and I saw a moving, flashing orange light very high in
the sky directly overhead.  When it flashed, it was
very bright.  So much so, it reflected off my car (and)
glasses, caught my attention enough so that I had
to look up.  It appeared to be moving in a straight line.
The UFO was heading due north--the same heading,
and virtually along the same path, as the helicopters."
     Bob ran indoors to get his wife Michele.  But when
the couple reached the yard, 30 seconds later, the
UFO was gone.
     Port Washington is located on the western shore
of Lake Michigan 25 miles (40 kilometers) north of
Milwaukee, Wisconsin.  (See Filer's Files #26 for 1998.
Many thanks to George A. Filer, Eastern Director of
MUFON, for this news story.)

NEW UFO CASE EMERGES IN
MULLICA HILL, NEW JERSEY

     MUFON investigator Evelyn Galson is looking into
a strange encounter that occurred in New Jersey
on Saturday, June 13, 1998.
     At 9:35 p.m. that evening, a couple was driving
south on Route 45 from Woodbury, New Jersey
(population 10,904) to their home in Mullica Hill.
     As the wife glanced in the direction of the
Gloucester County Public Library, she spied "some
strange lights in the sky.  There were three or four
red and blue-red lights like in a straight line."
     The wife asked, "What is that?"  Her husband,
sitting behind the steering wheel, did not look.
     "As she watched, the lights followed their car
and changed to all white lights.  She asked, 'Can a
plane's lights change color?'  Again her husband
did not respond.
     "When they finally arrived home and pulled into
the driveway, the object moved over the treetops to
the right side of the backyard and stopped.  She
asked her husband, 'What is that?'"
     "I don't know," he replied, "Maybe it's a
helicopter."
     After he went indoors, "the wife walked to the
backyard to get a better view of the object and
noticed that there was no sound coming from it.
The object moved a little at a time, very slowly,
and finally rested on the left side of the backyard
above their suburban home.  It was just hovering,
barely moving about 80 feet from the ground."
     "All of a sudden, the outside lights on the craft
were turned off, and the inside lights came on.
There were three decks or three landings that lit
up one after another.  Later she noticed three
white lights underneath the craft."
     After watching the UFO for 10 to 15 minutes,
the woman went inside the house.  On Sunday
morning, however, she said she was "unusually
tired" and "noticed a bruise on her thigh with
three pointed ends but did not have them the
day before."
     Woodbury and Mullica Hill are in southern
New Jersey, just south of Philadelphia's
international airport.  (See Filer's Files #26 for
1998.  Many thanks to George A. Filer for this
news story.)

LUMINOUS UFO SEEN NEAR
WASHINGTON, D.C.

     On Wednesday, July 1, 1998, at 8:53 p.m., a
male witness sighted a UFO near his home in
Bowie, Maryland, a suburban community located
20 miles (32 kilometers) northeast of Washington,
D.C.
     "I observed a bright white point of light which
appeared about 1.5 degrees north of the half moon
and moved extremely slowly to the northwest," he
reported, "I estimated the light to be about
magnitude 0 (zero) and briefly mistook it for Jupiter,
which I quickly realized should not have been
there."
     "After about three to four minutes of observation--
by then I viewed it with binoculars--it rested at about
a point 0.5 to 1.0 degrees northwest of what I believe
was the star Porrima (Gamma Virginus) or about
three degrees northwest of the moon.  The steady
brightness and very slow movement suggest to me
that the light was not an aircraft.  The light then
flashed for several seconds to maybe magnitude
5 or 6, then disappeared.  At about that time appeared
in the binoculars a faint 'puff' of white smoke or vapor,
not a trail" where the object had been seconds before.
(Many thanks to Jim Hickman of Skywatch for
forwarding this report.)

THREE SILVER SPHERE UFOs
VISIT NORTHERN IRELAND

     On Wednesday, June 17, 1998, several people
in Galliach, near Derry, Northern Ireland reported
sighting three silver sphere UFOs flying and
hovering over their homes.
     According to the Derry Journal, there were
"several reports of a strange object being sighted
in the sky around the Galliach area.  Observers
reported that the first sighting was...around 11 a.m.
on Wednesday."
     One witness said, "It was spinning, and you
could see the sun reflected from it.  But the strange
thing was there was no sound.  Then two other
objects and that strange light...could be seen
spinning high in the sky."
     "The witness claimed the object flew across the
sky, and then two of them disappeared by flying
straight up into the atmosphere.  The other reportedly
disappeared after flying across the sky."
     Galliach is about 120 kilometers (75 miles)
northeast of Belfast.
     On Thursday, June 18, 1998, the Derry Journal
attempted to corroborate the reports by checking
with the City of Derry Airport and the Royal
Ulster Constabulary.  The newspaper was told that
the airport "had no reports of any sightings in the
sky over the Derry area."  (See the Derry Journal
for June 19, 1998.  Many thanks to Daev Walsh
of Nua Blather for forwarding the article.)

MYSTERY METEOR CRASHES
IN TURKMENISTAN

     On Saturday, June 20, 1998, a strange "conical"
meteor weighing 300 kilograms (670 pounds) crashed
in a farm field in Turkmenistan, a small nation just
east of the Caspian Sea.
     The meteor crashed on the Daikhan Daryalik
collective farm just after 6 p.m.  The farm is in the
Kune-Urgench district of Dashkhovuz province.
     The meteoric impact created a crater 6 meters
(43 feet) wide and 4 meters (25 feet) deep.  The
meteor measured 60 by 90 centimeters (30 by
45 inches) and was described as having "a conical
form" and being "of the stone or iron type."
     The meteor was dug up and shipped by truck
to Ashgabat, the national capital.  Because it
crashed on the sixth anniversary of the election
of President Sapamurat Niyazov, scientists wish
to name the meteor Turkmenbashi (Head of the
Turkmen), one of Niyazov's official titles.
     The meteor will soon go in display at the
National Museum of History in Ashgabat.  (See
the newspaper Neitralny Turkmenistan for
June 27, 1998.  Many thanks to Sue Kovios for
forwarding this news story.)

RED UFO SIGHTED OVER
ARLINGTON, TEXAS

     On Saturday, June 20, 1998, Texan ufologist
Mike Harman was at a family outing near the
Prairie Parkway, a.k.a. Highway 330, in
Arlington, Texas when he spotted a UFO.
     "I had stepped outside for a breath of fresh air
and had been looking at the sky for only a few
minutes when I noticed an object that didn't look
the 'norm' for an aircraft."
     "This object was displayed only as a single
colored red light.  No landing lights or strobes
were visible," he reported.  Unlike the standard
FAA red-and-white strobing lights he had seen
on five conventional aircraft passing over in the
minutes prior to his UFO sighting.
     "Only the single very large red light that pulsated
from the brightest down to a glow and back again"
was visible, he added, and it "was moving across the
sky at approximately 30 to 35 degrees from the
horizon and moving at about the speed of the other
aircraft.  It flew at a steady speed and continued the
cycling (pulsating) of the light until it was out of
sight behind some trees.  I estimated it to be
approximately two miles from my location."
     Arlington (population 261,721) is approximately
20 miles (32 kilometers) west of Dallas, Texas.
(Many thanks to Mike Harman for this report.)

SCIENTISTS SURPRISED BY
UNEXPECTED METEOR
SHOWER

     An unexpected meteor shower struck Earth
on Saturday, June 27, 1998, and was confirmed by
scientists in several countries.
     That evening, two Japanese astronomers,
K. Suzuki and M. Ueda, noticed a sudden "increase
of meteor ratios by radio-forward meteor scattering
signals."  The incidence of meteor signals was
"three to five times above normal ratios."
     They estimated that up to 50 meteors were
hitting Earth's upper atmosphere each hour during
the evening.
     Between 9:30 p.m. on Saturday, June 27, and
1:30 a.m. on Sunday, June 28, Italian astronomers
Alberto Haler, Enrico Stomeo and Roberto Gorelli
confirmed the Japanese sighting and found "rates
above 100 (meteors) per hour."
     An astronomer in Portugal also confirmed
the meteor shower.
     The meteors apparently came from these
coordinates in space: Right Ascension 224 degrees,
Declination +50 degrees.  (See the International
Astronomical Union Circular 6954 for June 27, 1998.)
(Editor's Comment:  This anomalous meteor shower
is a bit too late to be part of the Eta Aquarids, which
usually arrive on May 4.  And it's too early to be
part of the Delta Aquarids, due on July 28.  Our world
seems to be getting hit by a lot of meteors lately.
See recent issues of UFO Roundup for details.)

NASA, ESA STILL UNABLE
TO CONTACT SOHO

     Ground controllers are still unable to contact
the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory (SOHO)
by radio, despite the best efforts of NASA and
the European Space Agency (ESA).
     Contact was lost Thursday night, June 25,
1998, "after controllers at the Goddard Spaceflight
Center in Greenbelt, Maryland sent a set of
routine commands to maneuver the satellite."
     Launched in December 1995 from Cape
Canaveral, Florida, the $1 billion solar satellite
is currently in a "halo orbit" at the Lagrangian
L-1 point one million miles from Earth, or 92
million miles from the sun.
(Editor's Note: Lagrangian points are small
areas of outer space where the gravitational
attraction of Earth and its neighbors cancel
each other out.)
     According to the Sky & Telescope News
Bulletin, "Efforts to reestablish contact have
continued, using the 70-meter-wide antenna of
the (NASA) Deep Space Network to listen for
signs of electronic life aboard the derelict craft."
     According to SOHO mission scientist
William Poland, "radio contact was lost" as the
spacecraft was undergoing "a procedure that
included firing control jets."
     Poland "said engineers have determined that
the craft is spinning and has lost its alignment
with the sun.  'Exactly how it is spinning and the
rate of spin is not clear,' Poland said, 'We are
not certain about what went wrong."
     On Tuesday, June 30, 1998, a team of experts
from ESA and Matra Marconi Space, the firm that
built the satellite, arrived at the Goddard Spaceflight
Center to meet with the NASA Flight Operations
Team.
     A board of inquiry to investigate the space
mishap will be formed and chaired by Dr. Massimo
Trella, ESA's Inspector General, and Dr. Michael
Greenfield of NASA's Office of Safety and Mission
Assurance.
     The most recent telemetry available showed
that SOHO "is clearly spinning in such a way that
its solar array, which generates power, either does
not face the sun at all or it does not receive enough
sunlight to generate power."
     SOHO is completely dependent upon its solar
array to provide needed electricity.  Its onboard
battery only carries enough reserve power to
run the spacecraft for one hour.  (See USA Today
for June 29, 1998, "Sun-studying probe failing to
respond; NASA fears it's lost."  Also Sky & Telescope
News Bulletin for June 26, 1998.  Many thanks to
Errol Bruce-Knapp for forwarding the bulletin.)
(Editor's Comment: At one million miles sunward
from Earth, SOHO is a little too far out of the
neighborhood to have been affected by the current
meteor shower.  It makes you wonder just what
knocked it out of alignment out there at L-1.
There are rumors, though.  See the following story.)

ORBIT WEBSITE DESTROYED
BY PERSONS UNKNOWN

     On Tuesday morning, June 23, 1998, Eagle Net,
operated by Norio Hayakawa of Citizens Against
the New World Order, suddenly disappeared from
the Internet.
     Wiped out in the mysterious event was Kent
Steadman's popular cyber-newspaper, the
CyberSpace Orbit.
     The Orbit had recently been running a series
of articles about the Solar and Heliospheric
Observatory (SOHO) satellite, which suddenly,
and equally mysteriously, lost contact with ground
controllers here on Earth two days later.
     According to the Orbit, two weeks ago a kind
of solar flare "seemed to reach out and blind" SOHO's
cameras.  In another incident, "two strange objects"
appeared near the sun.
     UFO Roundup first learned of the strange loss
of Eagle Net from a reader who had attempted to
access last month's Orbit interview with an
anonymous scientist who claimed that data
from the Mars Global Observer showed a high
incidence of radioactive isotopes in the Cydonia
region.  The scientist speculated that the region
might have been struck by a nuclear bomb.
     UFO Roundup editor Joseph Trainor tried
to access the Orbit site himself at 7:10 a.m.
on Thursday, June 25, 1998 and received a
"403: Access to this site is forbidden" message.
     UFO Roundup interviewed a handful of
computer users who had tried to or successfully
accessed the site, including Jon H., who first
posted the message about Eagle Net's disappearance
in the USENET.
     "I attempted to access Eagle Net on Tuesday
morning, June 23," Jon reported, "I use my ISP which
is Earthlink, and I can also access the Internet at work
over a T-1 computer.  Most of my newsgroup saw the
enhanced images of the object that SOHO picked up."
     Asked if he had experienced computer problems
as a result, Jon wrote, "Yes, although I cannot
attribute them directly to the site.  My computer went
down and I lost most of my bookmarks.  I believe that
it was a virus that was downloaded by email."
     Jon has a sophisticated virus scanner, but it was
not running at the time of the download.
     M.H., another operator, remarked, "I watched the
(alleged anomalous) object up until Friday, June 26,
and it kept getting brighter and brighter, as if it were
coming right at us.  It was a fascinating sight."
     Concerning the loss of the Orbit, he added,
"Perhaps too many people are seeing things someone
doesn't want them to see."
     J.B. claims to have visited the Eagle Net site,
adding, "There was nothing there.  If you try to enter,
you wind up off the Net.  Fascinating."
     Another respondent wrote, "It was like ground zero.
Nothing left."
     During the week, Kent Steadman successfully
salvaged the newspaper's back issues and has set
up a new website.  Once back online, he remarked,
"Let's hope this new web location holds up against
or resists broadsides by hacker/buccaneers."
     The Orbit can now be accessed at this URL:
http://members.aol.com/phikent/orbit/orbit.html
     Noted ufologist Dr. Bruce Cornet suggested
this week that many "mirror sites" be created to
protect vital newsletters like the Orbit, Filer's Files,
CNI News and UFO Roundup from cybernetic
attack.  (Email Interview)

PATHFINDER DATA SHOWS
SEAS ON ANCIENT MARS

     Intensive scientific study of the data radioed to
Earth last year by Pathfinder shows that Mars
was "warm and wet" three billion years ago.
     The rock-strewn plain where Pathfinder landed
was deluged "by large volumes of water in the
distant past, and the hills on the horizon known as
Twin Peaks appear to be islands shaped by water."
     The study "suggested catastrophic flooding two
billion years ago," but the area has been dry ever
since.
     Wind has also contributed to the erosion of
Martian landforms, according to Pathfinder scientist
Dr. Matthew Golombeck of the Jet Propulsion
Laboratory in Pasadena, California.
     "There are other places on Mars that we call
'sinks,' or places where dust ends up being
deposited (by the wind--J.T.)  Amazonis Planitia,
for example, probably has about three to six feet
(1 to 2 meters) of fine, powdery dust that you would
sink into if you stepped on it."
     Chemical analysis of nearby rocks by the
rover Sojourner's Alpha Proton X-ray Spectrometer
(APXS) recorded "an unexpected composition that
scientists are still trying to explain."
     The rocks appear to be an unusual form of
andesite, similar to the volcanic magma flows of
Iceland and the Galapagos Islands off the coast
of Ecuador.
     Before losing its radio last year, the Pathfinder
transmitted "2.3 gigabytes of data to Earth,
including 11,500 images from the lander's camera,
550 images from the rover camera, 16 chemical
analyses of rock and up to 20 million measurements
of atmospheric pressure and temperature" on Mars.
(Many thanks to Steve Wilson Sr. for sending along
this story.)
(Editor's Comment: Andesite of the Icelandic and
Galapagos type is formed when magma oozes
up from a planet's core through a fracture zone,
i.e. the point where two tectonic plates overlap
each other.  So, are two plates colliding miles
below the lost Pathfinder and Sojourner?  Mars
is just chock-full of mysteries, isn't it?)

from the UFO Files...

1978: THE MEN WHO DROVE
           TO MARS

     Twenty years ago, on July 6, 1978, at 6 a.m., a
fleet of UFOs appeared over the World Cup futbol
(soccer in the USA) stadium in Mendoza, a city
in western Argentina.
     "There were 25 to 30 of them," said Marco
Palma, a night watchman who worked near the
stadium.  "They had green windows and were about
the size of a car.  The objects were round and very
bright. There was no noise at all.  After about 20
minutes, they went north very, very fast."
     Another watchman, Gilberto Caballero, reported,
"About a thousand people stopped to watch.  The
saucers completely covered the stadium.  Further
north there was a bigger craft sitting motionless
in the air."
     Fifteen hours later, at 9 p.m., Francisco Nunez,
age 66, and his son, Carmelo Nunez, 22, were
driving home to Mendoza when something strange
happened.
     "We were just about to pass a traffic sign when
a pickup truck in front of us disappeared," Carmelo
said, but in actuality, "We had disappeared."
     "Carmelo said he could see the beam's of his
car's headlights ahead of him, but nothing else.
On all sides there was only pitch black."
     Pointing at the dashboard, Francisco said,
"Look at that!"
     The odometer's numbers were spinning.
Spinning so rapidly that they were a blur.
     "But suddenly the men found themselves in an
alien city.  They believe they were on another
world--but they had reached it within just minutes."
     "'The car entered the city going very, very fast,'
Francisco said."
     "Said Carmelo, 'The car felt as if it were in the
air...I couldn't feel the engine running or feel any
bounces.  I felt that the car was controlled by
something else.  The steering wheel seemed to
be fixed, and I couldn't turn it.  I think a UFO was
above the car.'"
     "Francisco agreed that the car 'seemed to
be floating' at high speed.  'We saw big square
windows in the buildings, and inside everything
was red.  The buildings looked reddish, too.'"
     "'We were on an avenue 45 to 55 yards wide,
and the buildings were so tall we couldn't see
their tops.  I looked up, and the red light was
coming from the sky above.'"
     "I said, 'How beautiful it is,' and Carmelo
agreed.  I said, 'I don't think we're on Earth.'
There were no trees, no people, no cars--
just buildings."
     "'A few minutes after we got into the city, it got
very cold.  It was like twenty degrees below zero.'
The men said their journey through the incredible
city lasted about 15 minutes."
     "Then Carmelo said, 'It seems as if the
Martians have taken us'--and as soon as he said
that, the city disappeared,' recalled Francisco."
     "'I felt a jolt, and suddenly the car was making
noise again.  We looked around, and Carmelo
said, 'Oh, we're in Guaymallen (a suburb of
Mendoza, which is located 900 kilometers
(540 miles) west of Buenos Aires--J.T.).'"
     "Said Carmelo Nunez, 'I think the UFOs
took us, but I don't know where.  I don't know
that city.'"
     "Francisco added, 'I felt we were not on
Earth.'"
     "'I think it is a UFO case,' declared Police
Sub-Inspector Adolfo Siniscalchi of Mendoza...
'They are honest and reliable people.  We don't
think they invented this story.'"  (See the book
NATIONAL ENQUIRER UFO REPORT, Pocket
Books, New York, N.Y., 1985, pages 108 to 111)

     July 7 is the birthday of George Graham, the
talented Eighteenth Century watchmaker who
built telescopes for the famous British astronomers
Sir Edmund Halley and James Bradley.

     We'll be back next week with more saucer news
from "the paper that goes home--UFO ROUNDUP."
See you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1998 by Masinaigan
Productions, all rights reserved.  Readers may post
items from UFO ROUNDUP on their websites or
in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter
and its editor by name and list the date of issue in
which the item first appeared.






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   Jul > Jul 6

                         Re: Sturrock Panel/skeptics

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 98 10:20:24 PDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 18:00:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Sturrock Panel/skeptics


> Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 23:40:15 -0400
> From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Sturrock Panel/skeptics
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> >From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
> >Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 13:41:32 EDT
> >To: updates@globalserve.net
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Sturrock Panel/skeptics

> Well, anyway, you can bet CSICOP was quite jealous of the
> exposure of SSE and they will be fighting back by enlisting their
> members to say that (a) the scientists of the panel had the wool
> pulled over their eyes by the UFO investigator/presenters and (b)
> UFOs/sightings are merely cult-related activity or a result of
> wishful thinking and do no bear any serious consideration.

The shape of the debunker response to the Sturrock panel is
already becoming clear.  Like the New York Post, a nearly
hysterical editorial in the current issue of New Scientist links
the SSE with all sorts of other heresies and condemns UFOs as
evidence of mass ... well, fill in your nasty noun here.
Basically, the thought police are determined that nobody, least
of all a scientist, is going to get by with acknowledging the
obvious: that the best UFO reports continue to resist explanation
and maybe, just maybe, deserve scientific attention.  Such is the
heresy that menaces civilization.

Jerry Clark








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                              Hancock on Hawass

From: Moderator UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 18:02:29 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 18:02:29 -0400
Subject: Hancock on Hawass



[Partial transcript from the Q&A portion of a talk given by
Graham Hancock in Toronto, Saturday, June 13, 1998 --ebk]

-----

[Partial transcript from the Q&A portion of a talk given by
Graham Hancock in Toronto, Saturday, June 13, 1998 --ebk]


What I and my colleagues have been told by Zahi Hawass the Chief
Inspector of Antiquities at Ghiza, who we've  had a radical
change of relationship with compared to the past two years, is
that an attempt will be made to open the door in the southern
shaft in the Queen's chamber before the end of this year. And
that he is open now to, and the antiquities organization as a
whole are open to, proposals for investigations under the
Sphinx.

The problem is that there's such a lot of bogus so-called work
being in this field. We have an example of an expedition that
has been claiming, for the past year, to have official
permission from the Egyptian authorities to look for the Hall of
Records in Egypt. This organization calls itself 'Operation
Hermes' and they do not have official permission. The Egyptian
authorities three days ago [June 10, 1998] issued a statement,
'For The Record', saying that they do not have permission to
look for the Hall of Records.

What has happened is that myself, Robert Bauval and James
Anthony West were locked, for more than two years, in a direct
face to face conflict with Zahi Hawass over precisely these
kinds of matters and it de-generated into the most horrific
slanging match where we would say really nasty things about him
and he would say really nasty things about us. But we didn't
know him.

During last year a bit of a breakthrough began to occur. Zahi
had the opportunity of closing down John's [Anthony West] study
focused in Egypt and he didn't do so even though John had been
his staunchest opponent up till now. Robert and Zahi met in the
summer of last year and I had my first meeting with Zahi in
December - the first of many. He spent six hours with me at the
Sphinx, explaining his point of view and I have come to the
conclusion that, whatever Zahi is, he's not lying and I don't
think he's covering anything up. I think that he's passionate
about his Pyramids and that he genuinely wants the best for
them.

What we've agreed to do is to hold a series of public debates.
It's the first time, as far as I know, that heretics and
orthodox Egyptologists have got together in front of the public
and debated things like the meaning and antiquity of the
Pyramid and The Sphinx.

We had the first debate, which was very surreal, on a cruise
ship off Alaska a month ago. It was attended by about three
hundred people and the next debate will be held with a much
wider gathering of Egyptologists and other scientists. Zahi will
be there, Mark Lainer from Chicago, Ed Krupp from the Griffiths
Observatory, Farouk al Baz an Egyptian geologist will be there
all arguing the orthodox side. On the un-orthodox side I, John
West, Robert Bauval and Robert Shock will be busy putting out a
lot. We hope a large of people from the 31st of January for the
first week of February, 1999. This will be in Ghiza.

Now, this is part of an on-going dialogue which precisely
concerns the need for responsible and honest and open work,
which makes no false claims, to be carried out looking for
possible chambers around the Sphinx and inside the Great
Pyramid. It's very important that that work gets done. But, I
believe that the only way for it to get carried forward is
through a process of dialogue with the Egyptian authorities and
an absolute respect for their code of conduct - their laws on
these matters. Those laws are that no expedition may take place
unless it's directly connected to a university.

I think that's healthy. Otherwise you would just have zillions
of people swarming all over the place with all kinds of toys and
that can't be good for a monument like the Sphinx.

EOF

Errol Bruce-Knapp






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                          Re: From the FBI Web Page

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 98 11:45:56 PDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 18:01:34 -0400
Subject: Re: From the FBI Web Page


> Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 10:54:57 -0700
> From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: From the FBI Web Page

> A friend of mine pointed out this page from the FBI FOIA
> documents at:

> http://www.fbi.gov/foipa/ufo/ufo11.pdf

> This document is on page 102.  The quality is fair and I have
> attempted to reproduce the text accurately below.

>        <><><><><><><><><><><><>

> Date:  July 10, 1953

> To:
> Director of Special Investigations
> The Inspector General
> Department of the Air Force
> The Pentagon
> Washington 25, D.C.

> From:
> John Edgar Hoover, Director
> Federal Bureau of Investigation

> According to <blank> he and two other companions, while travelling in an
> automobile on Bankhead Highway in the vicinity of Mableton, Georgia,
> encountered three small animals which they believed had landed from a
> flying saucer.  <W>aters advised as he and his companion approached, the
> three animals started making their way back to what was believed to be a
> flying saucer.  According to <Wa>ters, two of the animals <escaped> in
> the flying saucer but the third was killed when hit by the automobile in
> which Waters and his companions were riding.
>


> What do you think the odds are that a couple of drunk barbers
> shaved a monkey? <g>

Pretty good. That is, in fact, what they did. Watters was
responding to a $10 bet about whether he could get his name into
the newspapers. He bought and killed a monkey, shaved it and cut
off its tail, and left the corpse on a rural highway. He and two
friends waved down the first approaching car and claimed they had
come upon a landed saucer and plowed into one of its crew.
Watters confessed after the animal was identified as a monkey,
and he was subsequently fined for littering a public highway with
the body of an animal.

One of saucerdom's cruelest and most contemptible hoaxes, in my
judgment.


Jerry Clark








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   Jul > Jul 6

                            'The Chinese Roswell'

From: John D. Chambers <jdc@flinet.com>
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 14:23:22 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 18:01:51 -0400
Subject: 'The Chinese Roswell'

Exciting news for those who want to know more about the Great
White Pyramid of China!

Hartwig Hausdorf's 'Die Weisse Pyramide' (The White Pyramid)
will be published by NEW PARADIGM BOOKS in July, 1998, in an
English-language version under the title:

'The Chinese Roswell: UFO Encounters in the Far East from
Ancient Times to the Present'

For more information, visit our Web Site at:

http://www.newpara.com








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                 Re: Artificial Structure Discovered on Moon

From: Donnie W. Shevlin <dshevlin@primary.net>
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 12:15:16 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 18:01:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Artificial Structure Discovered on Moon


> From: Mark LeCuyer <randydan@wavetech.net>
> To: "UFO UpDates Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Artificial Structure Discovered on Moon by Clementine
> Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 21:10:25 -0500

> Hello Everyone :-)

> I received this message that is very important to all.

> --------------------------------

> Forwarding Message:

> Everyone,

> A HUGE MONOLITH has been discovered in CLEMENTINE data from an
> official NASA  website! This MONOLITH is HUGE and looks like a huge
> "spike" sticking strait up from  the lunar surface! In my opinion
> there is simply NO WAY that this HUGE object pointing  up from the
> lunar surface could be any kind of natural formation. It MUST be
> artificial!

> It sure is not any crash dummy, weather balloon, flare, or
> atmospheric inversion!

<snip>

> Thanks for all of your help! Take care and God Bless all of you!

> Best Regards,
> William

> From: Mark - Alien Astronomer
> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583

William, EBK and list,

Alright, alright... Slow down now. A 'spike' it may be, but lets'
not jump to conclusions until more data can be provided.
Clementine is a very important tool for us (earthlings) to
discover what potentials the moon may have. I am sure that the
mapping tool it uses is quite similar to what a cruise missile
uses to map unknown terrain. Now I'm not saying that this is the
case, but that mapping equipment has been known to show ghost
images before. So lets' stand back and wait. I'm sure that those
more familiar with the equipment will be able to tell us more.

Donnie W. Shevlin :)

"We're a speck of dust floating in the vacuum bag of space."






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                             Re: Sturrock Panel

From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 13:24:31 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 18:01:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Sturrock Panel


> Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 23:56:12 -0400
> From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
> Subject: Sturrock Panel
> To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net>

> Jerry wrote:

>>The Sturrock panel report is the best thing that's happened in a long
>>time, and the wide and respectful attention it has received is indeed
>>gratifying.

> Jerry,

> Can a small group of scientists, in such a short period,
> evaluate so few cases as an overall perspective of some 50 years
> evidence for the possibility of any extraterrestrial contact?

> Would you disagree that hardly constitutes a thorough scientific
> study?

> As an unmitigated PR coup, I personally have no objections to
> that achievement. Many would agree with the 'Sturrock panel's'
> conclusion that there is some related evidence which challenges
> an obvious explanation. It is after all, the essence of the 'UFO
> phenomenon' and its myriad facets.

> However, didn't we know that already?

<etc, including a swipe at Jerry for possibly thinking that
scientists now should study crop circles or abductions.>

Jeez.

Suppose a group of Catholic theologians -- most of them not
identified as liberals within the church -- listens to
presentations on homosexuality.

Then they issue a report. The report says, in essence: "We have
not heard evidence suggesting that the church should sanction
homosexual marriage. We feel, however, that homosexual
relationships deserve further study. In the past, they have been
considered sinful, and that position was understandable, in its
social context. Now we raise the possibility that the Church
might wish to reexamine this issue."

Hardly anyone would say, "This was hardly a scientific study of
homosexuality."

Hardly anyone would say: "So what? Any sensible person came to
the same conclusions long ago."

Hardly anyone would say, "See? Homosexuality IS bad! Even these
theologians didn't endorse transvestites or the Gay Pride
parade."

Almost everone would understand that this statement was a limited
but significant contribution to a complex and highly emotional
debate within the church, one in which there are strong vested
interests on both sides, and in which opinions don't easily
change. It would be clear to nearly everyone that the statement
was nuanced, and deliberately cautious, but that even so it
represented a small but tangible shift in the prevailing wind.

Same thing for the Sturrock panel, within the scientific world.
Why raise extraneous issues?

Greg Sandow








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                       Re: Video of 'UFOs' Around MIR

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 13:04:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 18:01:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Video of 'UFOs' Around MIR


>Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 22:24:02 -0300
>From: Carlos Barboza <cbarboza@adinet.com.uy>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Video of 'UFOs' Around MIR

>>Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 02:58:30 -0500
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Video of 'UFOs' Around MIR

>> Hola Carlos,

<snip>

>> If your friend is unable to do you the favor, just let me know.
>> I will be happy to convert any files into a moviegif. or other
>> format that will play well on the web for you. I'm sitting on
>> an industrial quality Macintosh audio/visual workstation
>> with all the bells and whistles. It is (I am) at your disposal
>> if you need help. (Si necesitas ayuda, avisame. Estoy a sus
>> ordenes.)

>> By the way, . . . no charge. <G>
>> (Hago el trabajo gratis.) <Sonrisa Grande>

>> Best of luck and thank you. (Suerte, y gracias.)

>> John Velez
==============

Carlos responds:

>Dear John (not Jhon, sorry for my mistake) :

Hey brother don't worry, I've been called -much worse!- <G>

>Thank you very much for all your offers and explanations in
>Spanish. My English is not very fluent for writing but I do
>understand it well, anyway I feel very comfortable when you put
>some words in Spanish, "ya llegara el dia en que todos hablemos
>un mismo idioma" (translation: "the day will come when we all
>speak the same language").

You are probably correct. I'm just one of those who loves
diversity and all of the things that make us unique and
individuals. I will be both happy and sad on that day. Happy
for the unity that it will bring and sad for the loss of diversity.

>I'd be pleased to send you a copy of the tape for you to convert
>it and upload it in your website if that could be possible, for
>my friend is going to be out of Montevideo for at least two
>months and it would take me some time to get someone else to do
>the work. Please feel free to e-mail me directly to my internet
>address if you want, so to know where and how to send the tape.

I don't want or need any credit. Send me the tape and I will
create a webpage for you with your video and sound track. It will
have _your_ name and contact address on it. If you ever wish to
transfer it over to your own server you are welcome to do so.
This work isn't about money or self promotion. I do it because I
think that the information is vital and urgent in nature. It
_should_be_ free and accessible by all. Happy to be able to
help.

For you (to send the tape and the sound file) or anyone else who
may wish to contact me by snail mail my address is:

John Velez
94-22 77th Street
Queens, New York, 11416

>I do also have an interesting audio file which I digitalized from
>the radio while a well-known (in my country) radio-speaker (right
>words?) was having a multiple sighting (avistamiento, is that
>right?) at night with many witnesses around him. I had the chance
>to talk to him and I went to the place where they had the
>sighting, talked to some witnesses and I could prove this was not
>a trick.

Send it along with the tape. I will make an announcement via the
UFO UpDates list when the file is up on the web and ready for
viewing and download.

No charge! <LOL>

>PS:  Well, at the moment I have both copies done, so I will need your
>address where to send them.

You have it!

Peace,

John Velez, Webmaster IF-AIC








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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 6

                           Re: Sheffield Incident

From: David Clarke <dclarke14@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 14:34:31 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 18:01:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Sheffield Incident


Although I fear UFO Updates readings must be rapidly growing
tired of hearing about this case, I feel now is the time for me
to put on record what I believe to be the truth.

Max Burns reads much into one paragraph of journalese in my
recent article for UFO Magazine, and claims I have reached no
positive conclusions about the cause of the incident.

Not so, and even if I had not reached a conclusion, it doesn't
follow that we have to immediately accept a fantastic and
far-fetched explanation for something which can easily be
explained in down-to-earth terms.

Max writes: "And as he has no conclusive proof of what actually
occurred, it is an elementary rule of logic that you cannot
prove a negative. Coupled with the lack of conclusive evidence
he should not have precluded the possibility of extra
terrestrial origin of the ufo sightings on the 24th March 1997."

I don't know what strange rule of logic Max's befuddled mind
adheres to, but if we follow his reasoning that you cannot prove
a negative, then I also cannot prove, for example, that the
leprecauns, Bigfoot or even the Jolly Green Giant was not
responsible for the sightings either. This line of argument
takes us nowhere. Just because we cannot say for sure exactly
happened, we should not have to immediately jump to the
conclusion that an Alien Craft was responsible.

That is is not science - it's just plain crazy.

Read my lips Max: UFO means Unidentified Flying Object, NOT
alien craft. I would have thought that was the first thing
someone claiming to be a UFOlogist in this day and age would
learn, but apparently not for the X-Files Generation.

This attitude just demonstrates how little time Max has been
involved in active UFO investigation, and how little he knows
about the history of this subject. He constantly confuses belief
with evidence, and evidence with belief.

The first rule of UFOlogy should be you cannot trust what
eyewitnesses tell you. How many "eyewitnesses" are qualified
observers of the night sky? Not many, judging by the number of
people who ring me up saying they have been watching a UFO for
the last four hours as the clouds have moved across it, and are
amazed when I look out of my window, see it too, and go back to
tell them it is a star or the planet Venus (this happens on
average once every other month).

Then there are those who see aircraft coming into land at
Sheffield's new airport and are convinced they have seen giant
triangular-shaped UFOs following their car. If they aren't
aircraft then why are they always seen at 8pm at precisely the
same time the KLM flight from Amsterdam comes in to land?

Just look at CUFOS' Allan Hendry's excellent UFO Handbook for
many other examples of witnesses who have radically misperceived
mundane objects and re-described them as UFOs, spaceships and
aliens.

A few examples - drawn from actual eyewitness accounts -  will
suffice: "Never seen anything like it in all our lives" (Police
officer's statement - object later confirmed by police to be a
star)

"It made a whirring noise like on TV shows (bright star, seen
for one hour) "It followed our car and hovered over our house.
Didn't follow any other car, only ours..." (Planet Venus,
watched every night for a week) "Made my hair stand on end..."
(the Moon)

Given this evidence, how can we take at face-value and
uncritically accept what Max says two or three witnesses say
about a "triangular shaped object" in the sky?  What's more we
don't even know what these witnesses are really saying or
claiming, because we only have Max's word for it, and he won't
let anyone question them unless they believe in his version of
The Truth. But back to what I believe caused the Sheffield
incident..

First of all, forget all preconceived ideas about aliens, UFOs
and crashed Tornados. What facts do we know about March 24,
1997?

FACT ONE. We know the RAF were involved in a secret military
exercise over the Peak District, involving extremely low-flying
jet aircraft,  Tornado GR1s and maybe other aircraft too. The
MOD received 13 complaints from the public about low-flying
aircraft that one evening alone. These jets were certainly
operating between 9 and 10pm, judging by the statements of those
who saw them, shortly before the sonic booms were recorded.

I believe the presence of the military jets explains the
sightings of "triangles". They were simply aircraft taking part
in this exercise, misperceived by a small number of observers.

The MOD have not lied to Helen Jackson MP simply because they
did not receive any UFO reports that night. The police did not
pass any UFO reports to the MOD because they never regarded the
incident as a "UFO incident", they regarded it as an incident of
low-flying aircraft.

FACT TWO: Two sonic booms were recorded above the Peak/Pennine
area at 9.52pm and 10,06pm that night, coincident with the later
stages of the above exercise.

Senior seismologist Glenn Ford at Edinburgh University has gone
on record and started (and I quote) "on the balance of
probabilities [these booms] were definitely caused by an
aircraft, in all probability a military aircraft."

Mr Ford and his colleagues record dozens of sonic booms and air
blasts every year, and they know what they are talking about.
Whatever the MOD or RAF may say, there is little doubt one of
their jets caused these booms. Not an "ET triangle" or a UFO
shooting down a jet, but a jet going
supersonic over land during a low-flying exercise.

I have yet to see ANY conclusive contradictory evidence to
change my opinion about the cause of these booms.

FACT THREE. We know for a fact there was an unidentified light
aircraft flying on an east to west course across the northern
suburbs of Sheffield coincident with the second boom at 10.06
pm. The Sheffield Police log records sightings of this aicraft,
and very good eyewitnesses accounts of it are provided by
special constable Marie-France Tattersfield and the farmer Mrs
Morton, who saw it from the Bolsterstone area. It was their 999
distress calls which triggered the subsequent search and rescue
operation, NOT the sightings of the triangles which Max
emphasises - these were seen half an hour before, or hours
later, miles away from the Bolsterstone area. Further proof that
an unidentified light aircraft was involved is provided by the
video footage taken by two teenagers, Leon Rockley and Alex
Hardy, from their home in Parson Cross, Sheffield, that night, a
copy of which I obtained after it was examined by detectives at
Hammerton Road Police Station. The video clearly shows a light
in the sky, which resolves into a "triangle" of lights as it
nears the camera, with the clear drone of a light aicraft engine
in the background.

Police were never able to identify the owner of this aircraft,
or the identity of the pilot whose craft was seen at
Bolsterstone, which led to speculation about the craft being
part of a covert drugs drop.

So there we have it folks - a covert military operation, coupled
with an as yet unidentified light aircraft, all coincidentally
taking place on a clear, still night when lots of people were
out on the moors watching the Hale-Bopp comet.

The Sheffield case is a microcosm of many other "UFO" cases, a
mish-mash of human misperception and wishful thinking, which can
rapidly turn into a great mystery when they are not investigated
properly or fall into the hands of belief-driven or money-driven
individuals out to make a fast buck. Why should we regard Max's
claims with suspicion? Here's a few good reasons:

*Max has already admitted on UFO UpDates that he stood to make
=A31,500 UK pounds out of selling his far-fetched version of
events to a sleazy down-market tabloid newspaper. Hardly the
actions of a principled, objective researcher whose only goal is
the truth.

*Max has stated on numerous occasions in public that he is
determined to make this case"Britain's answer to Roswell". The
only way he can do that is by selling it to the USA, where no
one is familiar with the true facts and have - until now - only
Max's version of events to draw conclusions upon. The reason he
has become so upset is because I have presented a different
version of events, and a more sensible one, and "rattled his
cage". *None of Max's claims about alleged " eyewitnesses"  can
be trusted to be reliable.

For example, his Website contains a statement by one witness he
calls "Leicester Arkwright" who he says  claims to have seen
body-bags being retrieved from a reservoir and placed inside an
RAF Sea King helicopter the morning after the Sheffield
Incident.

All he can about this witness is that his statement has been
"uncorroborated". What that means is Max has not spoken to him,
dosen't know what he claims at all, and is relying upon hearsay
evidence, which is good enough for him.

I have spoken to this man, whose name happens to be a Water
Board worker, Lester Wainwright (but then Max even has trouble
spelling my name, "Mr Clark").. Wainwright makes no claim about
body bags, was not even present at the scene on March and tells
me in a statement: "The RAF said it was Tornado low flying and
fast which caused the flash and the bang, and I understand they
admitted it to the police later. It makes me laugh to think
someone is claiming I saw body bags when I wasn't even there. It
annoys me that people exaggerate stories like this."

The important point about this statement is the FACT that I told
Max I had spoken to Mr Wainwright, that he had denied seeing any
body bags, and yet Max has gone ahead and placed this man's
"testimony" on his Website without any regards to truth or
honesty.

This statement alone should make any objective researcher
question ANY "evidence" or "eyewitness" statements about this
case which Max claims supports his Extraterrestrial theory. He
is a proven manipulator and distorter of information to suit his
own ends. He just ignores anything which supports a
down-to-earth explanation and goes for the fantastic and
unprovable every time.

This is not an injustified attack - it is a fact which is borne
out by checkable evidence which I have provided above. All my
claims about this case are supported by independent and
checkable statements of fact.

Here I quote from Max's original conclusions about this case,
which he kindly supplied me with a copy of earlier this year:

"These Larger Triangled Craft are without doubt Extra
Terrestrial in Oridgin.

"As well as that I will go so far as to say that these triangles
are being flown and controled by the beings Known as the
Greys...It is without doubt that given the evidence and chain of
events which occurred on the that I must conclude as the
Triangle data seems to point to them often travelling in pairs
and that the authorities seem to be lying about the events over
the pennines..that if it was just a tornado gone down on a
training exercise like so many have over the last 20yrs when
they just normally announce thoughout the news media that a
plane has crashed like they have done on numerous ocassions in
the last 20yrs I must conclude the followingpoints:

"1. one of the tornado jets has shot down one of the triangles
    while being completely destroyed its self.

"2. if that is the case was the later sighting of the triangle
    at 23.30-23.45pm a rescue triangle for the occupants of the
    first triangle.

"3. there was only one triangle and it has completely destroyed
    the tornado jet and the pilot.

"4. The Triangle has captured on of the tornado,s and the pilot."

Quite reasonable conclusions to arrive at based upon just three
vague sightings of a triangular object, spaced out between
7.40pm and 11.45 pm one evening?

Or just plain crazy?

At the end of the day, it's up to the readers of UFO Updates and the great
mass of public out there to decide which version of the Truth they buy.
The paranoid, belief-driven believers in the ETH will no doubt feel Max is
a hero and I'm an heretical skeptic out to spoil their fun.

But as Max has said himself, time will tell, and I predict that in ten
years time he will be no nearer finding the answers to these three
questions than he is today:

1. Who saw a UFO shoot down a Tornado jet on the night of March
   24, 1997?

2. From which base did this Tornado jet fly?

3. What were the names of the pilot and co-pilot?








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 6

                 Re: Artificial Structure Discovered on Moon

From: Bill Jacobs <billjaco@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 15:18:34 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 18:25:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Artificial Structure Discovered on Moon


> From: Mark LeCuyer <randydan@wavetech.net>
> To: "UFO UpDates Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Artificial Structure Discovered on Moon by Clementine
> Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 21:10:25 -0500

<snip>

> A HUGE MONOLITH has been discovered in CLEMENTINE data from an
> official NASA  website! This MONOLITH is HUGE and looks like a huge
> "spike" sticking strait up from  the lunar surface! In my opinion
> there is simply NO WAY that this HUGE object pointing  up from the
> lunar surface could be any kind of natural formation. It MUST be
> artificial!

Mark, and others,

A couple days ago I was snorkeling on the reefs here in Sunny, I
mean... Smokey Florida. After several hours under the water,
looking at perhaps an 1/8th square mile of coral, I was suddenly
stunned by a fully symetrical face - outcropping from the
surrounding naturally developed coral terrain. Had I had an
underwater camera I would have snapped a shot. You see, the face
was better developed in every way than the original mars face.
Deep set eyes, sturdy nose bridge with flaring nostrils and a
perfectly developed mouth - no computer recreation required -
there was no missing features. A strong chin set on a well
developed cranial structure assured me this was definitely an
artificial structure, probably created during antiquity or left
by aliens. I thought for a minute I was losing my mind - I
approached it from different sides - even stood (well floated)
back and looked at it with quick glances, then longer looks,
just to see if it was my imagination. No, it was definitely
artificial, well, almost.

You see after taking a closer look, it was nothing more than a
naturally forming coral growth - the eyes and nose and mouth
were vents where the current flowed from beneath, spiraling up
and out from a deeper ridge in the coral bank leading to the
shore. Please, let's wait for the appropriate set of data before
jumping to conclusions.

Regards,

Bill Jacobs






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   Jul > Jul 6

                    William Cooper Taking On Authorities

From: Don Ecker <decker@ufomag.com>
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 13:05:54 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 18:32:15 -0400
Subject: William Cooper Taking On Authorities


Many of you that have been in the UFO field for along time will
know who Milton Wm. "Bill" Cooper is. If this name is not
familar to you as far as UFOs are concerned, 10 years ago Cooper
was all the "rage" on the UFO circut. In 1990 I completed a
several part expose on Cooper in the pages of UFO Magazine. I
will upload them here in future messages.

During the time frame of about 1988 until about 1991 and 1992
Cooper was still making the airwaves and lectures claiming that
the U.S. Government was in league with evil aliens to enslave
humanity, then it changed to the One World Government, then to
the One World Government (with no aliens) would fool the world
with a fake alien invasion. All the while screaming that the JFK
assassination was carried out by JFK's Secret Service driver
Bill Greer. You see, Cooper claimed that he had been on a U.S.
Navy Briefing team in the Pacific Area of Operations, and was
privy to these facts from either being present when the above
items were discussed, or from reading the information from
documents Cooper claimed he covertly stole and photocopied.

When Cooper burned all his bridges in the UFO areana, (if you
ever disagreed with him or called him on his "facts" you were
either called an agent of the secret government or perhaps
assaulted by him physically or had your car tires slashed, or
were subjected to a barrage of vile and abusive telephone calls.
All of which are on various public records in a number of police
departs.)

At anyrate, Cooper left UFOs and entered the wonderful world of
armed civilian militia's. The following is the latest.

Over the next several days I will upload the Cooper files and
you can take a fun-filled trip into the last 10 years of UFOs!

Don Ecker
UFO Magazine
www.ufomagazine.com

*************************************************

Source: The Arizona Republic

Militiaman Taking On Authorities

By Jerry Kammer
The Arizona Republic
July 3, 1998

An eastern Arizona militiaman is vowing to defy an arrest
warrant issued in Phoenix on Wednesday after he failed to appear
in federal court on charges that he evaded income taxes and
defrauded a bank.

William Cooper, 54, a media-savvy foe of the federal government
who claims to belong to the "Second Continental Army of the
Republic," posted a defiant message in big red letters Thursday
on his Internet site:

"WARNING!! Any attempt by the federal government or anyone else
to execute the unconstitutional and unlawful arrest warrants...
will be met with armed resistance."

Federal authorities in Phoenix are responding with calculated
calm to Cooper, who warned a 1994 convention in Mesa of a coming
battle against one-world government.

"Blood will be spilled in the streets of America -- it's
inevitable," Cooper declared then, even as he stressed that he
didn't endorse violence. He has broadcast the same message
around the world in his daily short-wave radio program. He also
publishes a newspaper.

The U.S. attorney for Arizona, Jose de Jesus Rivera, said
federal agents would move carefully to arrest Cooper, who faces
a four-count indictment on charges that he failed to pay taxes
from 1992 to 1994 and submitted false information to a bank to
obtain a loan.

"We are going to proceed with prudence and caution and handle
the matter in due course," Rivera said, declining to comment
further.

Apache County Sheriff Art Lee said he has advised federal
authorities to move cautiously against Cooper, who lives in a
hilltop house in Eagar.

After talking with Cooper, Lee said, he cautioned federal
authorities that "it could deteriorate into an incident" if they
moved in to arrest Cooper and his wife, Annie Mord-horst, who
was indicted on the same charges.

"I felt like he meant what he said when he told me he would
defend his property with everything at his disposal," Lee said.

The sheriff said Cooper owns weapons, but he did not know how
many or what kind.

Lee said Cooper moved to Eagar two or three years ago from St.
Johns, where he had once spoken of opening a library where
residents could research the U.S. Constitution. Militia members
believe that the federal government has flagrantly usurped the
Constitution by asserting a range of powers, including the power
to tax.

"He sent me a lot of literature when he lived in St. Johns," Lee
said. "It was the regular right-wing stuff -- militia-type
literature on the black, unmarked helicopters and the takeover
of the United States by United Nations forces."

Asked whether Cooper had a broad following in the county, Lee
said, "Not that I'm aware."

One sympathizer is Glenn Jacobs, publisher of a small weekly
newspaper, who said he spoke to Cooper early this week.

"He told me he is not going to submit to arrest by the feds,"
Jacobs said. "He said if they're going to murder him, they're
going to have to do it in the house, that this is where he has
drawn his line in the sand, and he's not going to retreat from
it. I think he is expecting to be murdered by the FBI."

Lee disputed Cooper's Web site report that "several ranking
local law-enforcement personnel" had informed the FBI that they
would "absolutely not allow another Ruby Ridge or Waco to occur
in Apache County, Arizona."

Lee said, however, that both Cooper and Jacobs had spoken of
Ruby Ridge and Waco, scenes of bloody confrontations that in the
militia movement have become symbolic of federal government
brutality and arbitrary power.

In Phoenix, Thomas Nixon of the U.S. Marshal's Office said
authorities intend to act cautiously as they enforce the arrest
warrant "because no federal agency wants any copies of Ruby
Ridge or Waco."

But Nixon added, "Obviously, at some point, we'll effect the
arrest."

Nixon said a federal marshal last month was unable to serve a
summons on Cooper. He said the marshal visited Cooper's home but
was unable to establish that the man who met him there was
Cooper.

Reached by phone Thursday, Cooper refused to answer questions,
responding to a reporter's inquiry with a stream of obscenities
before hanging up.

In his Web site, however, he calls summonses "unconstitutional"
and "unlawful" because the federal government has no
jurisdiction in Arizona "except over land that was ceded to the
United States by the State Legislature."


Copyright 1998, The Arizona Republic

-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this
material is distributed without profit or payment to those who
have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information
for non-profit research and educational purposes only.
-----------------------






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 6

                            Re: Mexico City Fake

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 14:41:11 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 18:40:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico City Fake


>Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 23:00:36 -0400
>From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: MexicoCityhoax?
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 16:34:15 -0700 (PDT)
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>,
>>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up

>>Say Bruce,

>>What if you were to allow for the following possibilities; would
>>a possible explanation then come to mind?

>>(a) Some UFO entities are able to cause a person to do something
>i>nvoluntarily. Such as to look up for no apparent reason from
>>what they're doing and spot a UFO in a certain part of the sky.
>>.Some are reportedly able to affect equipment at a distance, such .
>>as remotely clicking a camera's shutter. Causing equipment
>>malfunction could be related, especially when an automobile's
>>engine suddenly comes back on again, etc.

>>(b) UFOs are capable of nearly instantaneous accelerations within
>>our time frame, and at the same time very controlled motions and
>>displacements, such as the UFO that was once reportedly filmed to
>>make a tight circle around a speeding rocket, or UFOs that charge
>>towards autos or airplanes and at the last split second avoid
>>collision.

>>(c) UFO entities like to toy with us at times, often with an
>>apparent goal of leaving crumbs for skeptics to latch onto.>

>>Would these and related considerations cause you to rethink
>>making the assumption that the Mexican City UFO was moving
>>uniformly along a single trajectory? Or do such considerations
>>just bring to mind the attitude of: "If what you imply were the
>>case, what's the use of studying them?"

>I suppose if UFOs could do anything we couldn't rule out a video
>that shows a UFO with a line above it...since the UFO could have
>created the line within the elctronics of the camera to fool us.

>In the Mex. Ciuty video..what really attracted Sainio's attention
>was the remarkable correlation between the motion of the camera
>and the motion of the UFO. That is, if the camera moved up, the
>UFO moved up, etc.  This tracking was not perfect but very good
>implying that either (a) the UFO knew which way the camera was
>about to move and adjusted its position in the sky accordingly

[...]

This is the possibility I had in mind, Burce. Do you recall the
one UFO case where there was a flickering black spot on the
window pane which attracted attention to itself with a thumping
noise? This was during appearance of a UFO some 3/4 mile away.
The witness was able to take a photo or two of the UFO and the
nearby black dot. It seems that a minor variation on this theme
would be for the UFO to have attached the "black spot," or
similar device, to the edge of the cam-corder lens atop the
building in Mexico City, and flicker the camera's vertical (or
horizontal) angle of sight up and down at will, while
coordinating the UFO's high-frequency vertical movements
accordingly. Nothing to it! Each instant the camera lens tilts
upwards by 0.2 degrees, say, the flying saucer jumps vertically
some 7 feet in tandem.

A related phenomenon is the relative motion of the implant behind
the ear of Whitley.  It knew just when and how far to move to
escape the scalpel, and its motion had to overcome the opposing
force of friction, just as tiny imposed motions of the video
camera would have had to overcome, or somehow negate, the
camera's inertia.

This solution has the advantage of not ignoring the supportive
witness testimony, and acknowledging the relevance of your study
correlating the UFO's brightness with its distance.

Jim Deardorff








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   Jul > Jul 6

                      CSICOP Responds to SSE UFO Report

From: Geoff G. Dittman <umdittm0@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 17:04:01 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 18:49:51 -0400
Subject: CSICOP Responds to SSE UFO Report

___________________________________

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:23:11 EDT
From: SkeptInq@aol.com
Reply to: CSICOP Announcement <CSICOP-ANNOUNCE@LISTSERV.AOL.COM>
To: CSICOP-ANNOUNCE@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: CSICOP Responds to SSE UFO Report

July 6, 1998
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact Matthew Nisbet 716-636-1425 x 219
SINISBET@aol.com
http://www.csicop.org/">http://www.csicop.org/

The Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the
Paranormal (CSICOP) Responds to the Recent UFO Report Sponsored
by the Society for Scientific Exploration (SSE)


AMHERST, NEW YORK - In a statement issued today, members of the
international Committee for the Scientific Investigation of
Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP) responded to recent
recommendations on UFOs released on June 29, 1998 by the Society
for Scientific Exploration (SSE.)

Background:

A panel of SSE-selected scientists, after reviewing evidence
presented by SSE-selected UFO investigators, concluded that
although none of the physical evidence "points to violation of
known natural laws or the involvement of an extraterrestrial
intelligence," it may "be valuable to carefully evaluate UFO
reports to extract information about unusual phenomena currently
unknown to science." The report recommends that institutional
support be given to UFO investigation and research. Prompted by
these findings, in the days following the release of the report,
some in the UFO community have renewed calls for Congressional
hearings on UFO phenomena.

Statements:

Paul Kurtz
CSICOP founder and chair, Professor Emeritus, SUNY at Buffalo.

"Why is this news? The observation that some things sighted in
the sky are unknown and merit further investigation is not a new
revelation. We are committed to an open-minded and inquiry into
any responsible paranormal claims. CSICOP has encouraged UFO
research for more than two decades, and has published the
results of rigorous UFO investigations. Some cases do remain
unexplained. But that we should now devote government resources
to further research is questionable. In our view, the government
should not divert funds and time from other more fruitful
scientific projects. Given limited resources for scientific
research, the evidence to date regarding UFOs does not merit
such strong attention. The idea that we should devote the
business of the United States Congress to hearings on UFOs
borders on the ridiculous.

"The release of the report appears well-timed to gain publicity
for the SSE and their claims. It occurs a week after the release
of the X-Files movie and during the week of Fourth of July when
news is slow."

Philip J. Klass
CSICOP fellow, Senior Editor with Aviation Week and Space
Technology magazine, leading UFO investigator and author.

The SSE recommends the creation of government funded UFO
research projects like the one called GEPAN (Groupe D'Etudes des
Phenomenes Aerospatiaux Non-identifies), created in 1977 by
France which reported to the highly respected French space
agency - CNES. In 1988, after more than a decade of UFO
investigations, GEPAN's budget was drastically reduced, its
mission was refocused to emphasize collecting reports of
reentering satellite debris and meteorites, and its name was
changed to SEPRA (Service d' Expertise desPhenomenes des
Rentrees Atmospheriques).

"During GEPAN's 11-year research effort, its most impressive UFO
case involved a peasant living in Trans-en-Provence who claimed
a strange craft hovered over his yard in broad daylight. GEPAN
strongly endorsed the caseb ased on its investigation into
alleged UFO-caused effects on nearby plants,which GEPAN/SEPRA
director Jean-Jacques Velasco described to the SSE's panel of
experts. Velasco did not inform the SSE panel of scientists that
a recent investigation by a pro-UFO French investigator - Eric
Maillot - indicates that the Trans-en-Provence case is a hoax.

"It is unfortunate that the SSE did not assemble a more balanced
roster of UFO investigators to present evidence to the panel of
scientists. The whole evaluation process appears suspiciously
weighted to one side of the UFO debate."

Kendrick Frazier
Editor of Skeptical Inquirer: The Magazine for Science and
Reason and CSICOP fellow.

"There's really nothing new in the report. I have serious doubts
there is any real scientific paydirt in the UFO question, not
the kind that merits taxpayer money being spent. The JSE, while
presented as neutral and objective, appears to hold a hidden
agenda. They seem to be interested in promoting fringe topics as
real mysteries and they tend to ignore most evidence to the
contrary. They publish 'scholarly' articles promoting the
reality of dowsing, neo-astrology, ESP, and psychokinesis. Most
of the prominent and active members are strong believers in the
reality of such phenomena. I have no objections to the
scientific panel that reviewed the UFO testimony for the study.
But the eight people who provided the testimony and evidence are
all strong UFO proponents and believers. They have been
promoting the UFO cause for decades. There are no skeptical
researchers among them. This is very curious if one is to
contend this is some kind of balanced assessment."

#30#


CSICOP is an international, non-profit organization dedicated to
the critical examination and investigation of claims of the
paranormal and fringe science. Founded in 1976, CSICOP is always
receptive to departures in thought, yet insists that they be tested
before they are accepted. CSICOP maintains anetwork of distinguished
scientists and academics that includes five Nobel laureates,
Jill Tarter, Marvin Minsky, Stephen Jay Gould, and Richard Dawkins.
The bi-monthly journal the Skeptical Inquirer: The Magazine for
Science AndReason, is the main forum for publication of these
inquiries. Both CSICOP and the Skeptical Inquirer are based at the
Center for Inquiry, Amherst N.Y.


Related Internet Links:

JSE Press Release and UFO Report
http://www.jse.com/PR_UFO_98.html
http://www.msnbc.com/news/176561.asp

MSNBC.com article
http://www.msnbc.com/news/176561.asp


ABCnews.com article
http://www.abcnews.com/sections/science/DailyNews/ufo_980629.html

Washington Post article
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/digest/nat3.htm







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                 Re: Artificial Structure Discovered on Moon

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 18:36:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 18:51:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Artificial Structure Discovered on Moon

<snip>

>From: Mark LeCuyer <randydan@wavetech.net>
>To: "UFO UpDates Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Artificial Structure Discovered on Moon by Clementine
>Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 21:10:25 -0500
>Also, it is very important that as many people as possible with VRML
>equipped browsers visit and inspect the MONOLITH at the NASA site
>before it gets YANKED or ALTERED. If you have a VRML equipped browser
>you can visit the following NASA site to see the MONOLITH from all
>angles and directions at the following URL:

>http://lunar.arc.nasa.gov/dataviz/vrml/clementine_8k.wrl

<snip>

Yeah, I got this and looked.  Looks like data dropout to me.

Bob








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               Re: UFO Crashes And Water/Lake Ontario Research

From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 21:44:34 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 23:27:31 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crashes And Water/Lake Ontario Research


>Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 12:21:38 -0400
>From: Jennifer Jarvis <fierycelt@full-moon.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>ubject: UFO Crashes And Water/Lake Ontario Research


>Hi Errol and List.

>I have been reading a great many ufo "crash" reports in recent
>weeks. I have noticed that it has been assumed, in some reports,
>that because the craft has/have been seen to go into a body of
>water, they have crashed.

Dear Jennifer,

To prevent any misunderstandings in the future created by
applying possibly misleading misnomers to ufo/water related
activity, I propose we use the same phrase popularized by
airlines to comfort apprehensive passengers........"water
landing".


Greg








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                 Re: Artificial Structure Discovered on Moon

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 18:17:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 22:25:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Artificial Structure Discovered on Moon


> From: Bill Jacobs <billjaco@ix.netcom.com>
> Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 15:18:34 +0000
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Artificial Structure Discovered on Moon

> > From: Mark LeCuyer <randydan@wavetech.net>
> > To: "UFO UpDates Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> > Subject: Artificial Structure Discovered on Moon by Clementine
> > Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 21:10:25 -0500

> <snip>

> > A HUGE MONOLITH has been discovered in CLEMENTINE data from an
> > official NASA  website! This MONOLITH is HUGE and looks like a huge
> > "spike" sticking strait up from  the lunar surface! In my opinion
> > there is simply NO WAY that this HUGE object pointing  up from the
> > lunar surface could be any kind of natural formation. It MUST be
> > artificial!

> Mark, and others,

<snip>

> You see after taking a closer look, it was nothing more than a
> naturally forming coral growth - the eyes and nose and mouth
> were vents where the current flowed from beneath, spiraling up
> and out from a deeper ridge in the coral bank leading to the
> shore. Please, let's wait for the appropriate set of data before
> jumping to conclusions.

> Regards,

> Bill Jacobs

Data from where, and sanctioned by who? Sneer at your peril Mr.
J., but I found this at (my good friend) -- Chuck Shramek's site.
I think the jury is a long way out even on our own moon. Check
out:

http://www.NeoSoft.com/~cshramek/

Under "Obelisks on the moon and pyramids on Mars," about 2/3 of
the way down the page. It _seems_ to be what we see in VRML on
the NASA site -- are the coordinates the same? It _is_ odd, no?
Apparently we've known about it since 1966, and later bought the
info from the Russians, when it was our space craft (Lunar
Orbiter II) that took the picture in the first place!!!

Data from where -- sanctioned by who, and whose fault is it I
can't believe a word that _anybody_ says.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

Restore John Ford
--
Explore the Alien View?  <updated 5, July>

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake.







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                      Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

From: RobIrving@aol.com
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 20:48:07 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 22:25:34 -0400
Subject: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'


> To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>  From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>  Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'
>  Date: Mon, 06 Jul 98 09:21:57 PDT

Jerry,

Preceding points noted without argument.

>  > I'd like to see these papers. From the way you talk of one might
>  > assume that all his ideas have been refuted. I'm not convinced
>  > of that. It seems a rather convenient way of avoiding revealing
>  > insights. I can cite a number of instances within ufology which
>  > mirror Festinger's ideas.
>
>  How would you know whether Festinger has been refuted or not,
>  when you admit you haven't read the papers in question?

I don't know, which is precisely why I said I'd like to see the papers.
You were telling me the theory had been refuted. Again I draw your
attention to my earlier question:

You wrote that Festinger's Theory of Cognitive Dissonance has been
"pretty well challenged" by sociologists of religion, etc...   Considering
how little of it is directly related to religion that's a broad statment. Are
you talking about its derivative, re. disconfirmation & proselytism?

It's an important distinction, which I'd like to hear you explain before I
obsequiously accept such a sweeping dismissal.

Rob







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                            Re: Mexico City Fake

From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 20:30:21 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 23:25:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico City Fake

>Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 14:41:11 -0700 (PDT)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mexico City "Fake"

<snip>

>A related phenomenon is the relative motion of the implant behind
>the ear of Whitley.  It knew just when and how far to move to
>escape the scalpel, and its motion had to overcome the opposing
>force of friction, just as tiny imposed motions of the video
>camera would have had to overcome, or somehow negate, the
>camera's inertia.

>This solution has the advantage of not ignoring the supportive
>witness testimony, and acknowledging the relevance of your study
>correlating the UFO's brightness with its distance.

>Jim Deardorff


Jim,

Your "solution" also has the advantage of being ad hoc, post
facto, and totally gratuitous, not to mention mere wishful
thinking. Just can't give up on a case, can you, even when the
evidence for a hoax stares you in the face. Just more clever
manipulation (or introduction of "confusion") by the ubiquitous,
omniscient, omnipotent aliens. Next thing you know, they'll be
photographing themselves on peoples' camcorders without the
latter being turned on, maybe even without a cassette in the
chamber -- just to confound the skeptics, I suppose. After all,
they can do anything, right? Were they jumping up and down to a
different beat for everyone else who might have been
photographing them at the same time, or did they just dictate
that they would be filmed by only one person in Mexico City (with
a population of about 14 million or so) at a time?

You're a real piece of work, Jim. Ever thought about having
yourself checked for an implant -- or a brain transplant?

Dark Cloud






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                         UFO*BC Quarterly - Summer 9

From: Dave Pengilly - UFO*BC <pengilly@axionet.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 19:33:48 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 23:49:44 -0400
Subject: UFO*BC Quarterly - Summer 9


The latest edition of our Quarterly Magazine has just been
published. To view the cover page and index, go to
http://ufobc.org/summer98.htm

The cost is $5 an issue or $20 for a year's subscription. To
order, please mail a cheque to the following address:

UFO*BC,
1810 Hamilton Street,
New Westminster, B.C.
V3M 2P4

In about one week, our magazine can also be purchased at the
following stores:

Banyen Books: 2671 West Broadway, Vancouver
Magpie Magazine Gallery: 1319 Commercial Drive, Vancouver
Mayfair News: 1535 West Broadway, Vancouver
News Hound Magazines: 2997 Granville, Vancouver
Newstop(?), near A&B Sound and Skytrain station in Surrey

If you have any questions, please e-mail me at dave@ufobc.org

Dave Pengilly







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                          Re: From the FBI Web Page

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 22:16:51 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 23:44:28 -0400
Subject: Re: From the FBI Web Page

> To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: From the FBI Web Page
> Date: Mon, 06 Jul 98 11:45:56 PDT

<snip>

> > What do you think the odds are that a couple of drunk barbers
> > shaved a monkey? <g>

> Pretty good. That is, in fact, what they did. Watters was
> responding to a $10 bet about whether he could get his name into
> the newspapers. He bought and killed a monkey, shaved it and cut
> off its tail, and left the corpse on a rural highway. He and two
> friends waved down the first approaching car and claimed they had
> come upon a landed saucer and plowed into one of its crew.
> Watters confessed after the animal was identified as a monkey,
> and he was subsequently fined for littering a public highway with
> the body of an animal.

> One of saucerdom's cruelest and most contemptible hoaxes, in my
> judgment.

My god! Thanks, Jerry . . . I guess.  Being an animal lover,
I'm disgusted.  I gather this will make a rather gruesome
research effort to find the press clippings.

All that aside, the truly interesting part is the role played by
government agencies in this hoax.  I mean, Johnnie Hoover
actually took the time from admiring his wardrobe and wrote the
Pentagon about it. Having occurred one year after the DC
overflight, I can understand their concern.

I guess we should all be grateful that the Condon Report saved
us so much money in investigative dollars. Declaring that there
was nothing to investigate really put a hiatus on the concern by
public authorities.

You probably read my diatribe on the list about insisting that
the Air Force investigate UFOs because they *are* UNIDENTIFIED.
I was quite adamant that they quit sitting on their duffs and do
their job of protecting the public and ensuring us that those
lights in the sky pose no threat today -- just like they posed
no threat in the '70s.  We need continual reassurance that no
*new* species have invaded our space.

If nothing else, we can point to the findings of the Sturrock
Report to show that *some* scientists think there is a reason to
investigate UFOs.  After all, some folks with really good
credentials say that all is not explained.

Terry






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               P1947 - Re: CSICOP Responds to SSE UFO Reports

From: Wendy Connors <wendy.connors@MCI2000.COM>
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 20:12:05 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 00:45:44 -0400
Subject: P1947 - Re: CSICOP Responds to SSE UFO Reports

Dear CISCOP,

At the risk of stepping under or in a quagmire, I must respond
to the CISCOP release of this date with some personal
observations.

>AMHERST, NEW YORK - In a statement issued today, members of the
>international Committee for the Scientific Investigation of
>Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP) responded to recent
>recommendations on UFOs released on June 29, 1998 by the Society
>for Scientific Exploration (SSE.)

My first thought is not how quickly CISCOP's response to the SSE
release has come. The problem I am having with it is the simple
fact that less than a week has passed and judgment is being made
by CISCOP. I am a researcher of ufology and have been for forty
plus years. I have read the SSE release on the internet, but
haven't even had time to mail my money in to receive a hard copy
in order to take the necessary time to digest, analyize and
prepare my own position regarding the Sturrock Report. So, my
first question is as follows: How can CISCOP respond so quickly
with a rational and logical premise to even comment so
"scholarly" on the Sturrock Report? If my students had commented
so quickly on "War and Peace" I would have failed them for using
Cliff Notes instead of taking the time necessary to do the
in-depth look the book requires.

>Background:
>A panel of SSE-selected scientists, after reviewing evidence
>presented by SSE-selected UFO investigators, concluded that
>although none of the physical evidence "points to violation of
>known natural laws or the involvement of an extraterrestrial
>intelligence," it may "be valuable to carefully evaluate UFO
>reports to extract information about unusual phenomena currently
>unknown to science." The report recommends that institutional
>support be given to UFO investigation and research. Prompted by
>these findings, in the days following the release of the report,
>some in the UFO community have renewed calls for Congressional
>hearings on UFO phenomena.

Is CISCOP telling me that they have not, nor do not,
CISCOP-select their mouthpieces to relay their positions, etc?
From the list below it is apparent that CISCOP has accused the
SSE of the same thing they are presently doing in this release.
I must admit that takes a lot of intestinal fortitude.

>Statements:

>Paul Kurtz
>CSICOP founder and chair, Professor Emeritus, SUNY at Buffalo.

>"Why is this news? The observation that some things sighted in
>the sky are unknown and merit further investigation is not a new
>revelation. We are committed to an open-minded and inquiry into
>any responsible paranormal claims. CSICOP has encouraged UFO
>research for more than two decades, and has published the
>results of rigorous UFO investigations. Some cases do remain
>unexplained. But that we should now devote government resources
>to further research is questionable. In our view, the government
>should not divert funds and time from other more fruitful
>scientific projects. Given limited resources for scientific
>research, the evidence to date regarding UFOs does not merit
>such strong attention. The idea that we should devote the
>business of the United States Congress to hearings on UFOs
>borders on the ridiculous.

On the contrary Mr. Kurtz, you speak of "open-mindedness" and
yet by your own statement you show that your logic is
close-ended (say one thing and mean another). I can take the
same position within your statement regarding the diverting of
funds from "fruitful government projects" and apply it to your
own institiution that receives a considerable amount of public
taxpayer money for you to sit and be comfortable in the high
towers of an educational institution and which the vast majority
of your own income is derived. "Emeritus" to the working class
Sir, means priviledged.

>"The release of the report appears well-timed to gain publicity
>for the SSE and their claims. It occurs a week after the release
>of the X-Files movie and during the week of Fourth of July when
>news is slow."

Is this not also what CISCOP frequently does? If not, you could
have fooled me (which is extremely difficult to do)

>Philip J. Klass
>CSICOP fellow, Senior Editor with Aviation Week and Space
>Technology magazine, leading UFO investigator and author.

First, to get the banalities out of the way. Mr. Klass is no
more a "leading" UFO investigator than Tarzan. Mr. Klass, in my
opinion, has not used any scientific methodology in his research
into the unidentified anomolous object phenomenon other than to
use the research, etc. from those in the field of Ufology and
skewed his position to benefit his own ego. He has never, for
example, compiled a database and interpreted the basis tenents
of such. In order to be a "leading UFO investigator" a person
must use both scientific methodology and initutive curiosity in
order to seek the facts and truth. Mr. Klass does not use either
one. As a matter of fact, a good scientist always approaches
their work with the knowledge that probability and possibility
are inherent in any endeavor. Mr. Klass does not display either
of these attributes as well. Yes, I have read all of Mr. Klass's
works regarding his position on the UFO phenomenon. His work is
highly important in the scientific discipline of Ufology - they
teach the beginning researcher how not to do research.

>The SSE recommends the creation of government funded UFO
>research projects like the one called GEPAN (Groupe D'Etudes des
>Phenomenes Aerospatiaux Non-identifies), created in 1977 by
>France which reported to the highly respected French space
>agency - CNES. In 1988, after more than a decade of UFO
>investigations, GEPAN's budget was drastically reduced, its
>mission was refocused to emphasize collecting reports of
>reentering satellite debris and meteorites, and its name was
>changed to SEPRA (Service d' Expertise desPhenomenes des
>Rentrees Atmospheriques).

Why not fund a government sponsored UFO research project? More
money is wasted on other types of research that contributes
nothing to the betterment of man and only to the betterment of
the financial resources of those involved in the projects being
funded. From a logical position the "government" has stated for
over 50 years that UFOs do not warrant proper research and
study, but have never provided anything to back that position
up. I find that as strange as CISCOP's positions on many matters
of curiosity. Please, don't mention the CONDON Report as I do
not have fifty years left to give a list of reasons why it was a
fisaco and about as scientific as drop of ice cream on the
sidewalk.

>"During GEPAN's 11-year research effort, its most impressive UFO
>case involved a peasant living in Trans-en-Provence who claimed
>a strange craft hovered over his yard in broad daylight. GEPAN
>strongly endorsed the caseb ased on its investigation into
>alleged UFO-caused effects on nearby plants,which GEPAN/SEPRA
>director Jean-Jacques Velasco described to the SSE's panel of
>experts. Velasco did not inform the SSE panel of scientists that
>a recent investigation by a pro-UFO French investigator - Eric
>Maillot - indicates that the Trans-en-Provence case is a hoax.

Oops. Here we have the comparing of apples to oranges. Real
"scientific" Mr. Klass.

>"It is unfortunate that the SSE did not assemble a more balanced
>roster of UFO investigators to present evidence to the panel of
>scientists. The whole evaluation process appears suspiciously
>weighted to one side of the UFO debate."

Again, here we have CISCOP saying that SSE was composed of an
group that already "leans" toward UFO belief factors. Ahem, I
repeat, CISCOP in this release does the same thing and continues
to do so. Same song, second verse, could be better, but it's
worse! CISCOP "leans," so does the rest of the scientific arena.
Terrible argument again, Mr. Klass.

>Kendrick Frazier
>Editor of Skeptical Inquirer: The Magazine for Science and
>Reason and CSICOP fellow.

>"There's really nothing new in the report. I have serious doubts
>there is any real scientific paydirt in the UFO question, not
>the kind that merits taxpayer money being spent. The JSE, while
>presented as neutral and objective, appears to hold a hidden
>agenda. They seem to be interested in promoting fringe topics as
>real mysteries and they tend to ignore most evidence to the
>contrary. They publish 'scholarly' articles promoting the
>reality of dowsing, neo-astrology, ESP, and psychokinesis. Most
>of the prominent and active members are strong believers in the
>reality of such phenomena. I have no objections to the
>scientific panel that reviewed the UFO testimony for the study.
>But the eight people who provided the testimony and evidence are
>all strong UFO proponents and believers. They have been
>promoting the UFO cause for decades. There are no skeptical
>researchers among them. This is very curious if one is to
>contend this is some kind of balanced assessment."

Are you telling me Mr. Frazier that CISCOP does not have 'hidden
agendas?' How ignorant do you think people outside the CISCOP
group really are, Mr. Frazier? You need to rub elbows with the
commonality of Man. Goodness, I expected better logic and
reasoning from CISCOP than this.

>#30#

>CSICOP is an international, non-profit organization dedicated to
>the critical examination and investigation of claims of the
>paranormal and fringe science. Founded in 1976, CSICOP is always
>receptive to departures in thought, yet insists that they be tested
>before they are accepted. CSICOP maintains anetwork of distinguished
>scientists and academics that includes five Nobel laureates,
>Jill Tarter, Marvin Minsky, Stephen Jay Gould, and Richard Dawkins.
>The bi-monthly journal the Skeptical Inquirer: The Magazine for
>Science AndReason, is the main forum for publication of these
>inquiries. Both CSICOP and the Skeptical Inquirer are based at the
>Center for Inquiry, Amherst N.Y.

CISCOP is not "dedicated to the critical examination" of
anything. If it was it would not have produced this "release" so
quickly, had spent at least five years in research looking at
the basic tenents and then released its position based on
empirical and circumstantial evidence (which we use in the law
of the land) instead of the childish emotional reaction CISCOP
accuses the UFO community of doing on a frequent basis. CISCOP's
position remains the 'Pot calling the Kettle Black' and will
always do so.

Wendy Connors
wendy.connors@mci2000.com
Project Sign Research Center @
http://www.evansville.net/~slk/Sign.html






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                     Re: Believers' Say It's About Time

From: Sue Strickland <strick@H2Net.net>
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 21:47:24 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 00:57:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Believers' Say It's About Time


>From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
>Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:47:10 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Believers' Say It's About Time

>>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 04:57:05 +0200
>>Subject: UFO Study: Believers Say It's About Time

>>From the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. URL:

>>http://www.accessatlanta.com:80/news/1998/06/30/ufo_full.html

>>Dr. Terry Sandbek, a clinical psychologist in California who also
>>specializes in behavior, said the reason people believe in UFOs is
>>simple: "It's the same reason we enjoy fiction. It's fun."

Obviously, this clinical psychologist is both misinformed and is
an embarassment to others who work in the mental health
community. For those who have studied this phenomenon with
serious intent to learn and help those who have been
detrimentally effected by what their clients know as "an unreal
reality,"  these kinds of remarks only serve to discredit the
profession as well as those to whom they are pledged to help and
serve. I am embarrassed for him and for members of this list,
that we should even consider debating such an irresponsibly made
remark.

--Sue Strickland







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                 Re: Artificial Structure Discovered on Moon

From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net>
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 23:40:50 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 00:55:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Artificial Structure Discovered on Moon


>Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 12:15:16 -0500
>From: Donnie W. Shevlin <dshevlin@primary.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Artificial Structure Discovered on Moon by Clementine

>> From: Mark LeCuyer <randydan@wavetech.net>
>> To: "UFO UpDates Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>> Subject: Artificial Structure Discovered on Moon by Clementine
>> Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 21:10:25 -0500

<snip>

>> A HUGE MONOLITH has been discovered in CLEMENTINE data from an
>> official NASA  website! This MONOLITH is HUGE and looks like a huge
>> "spike" sticking strait up from  the lunar surface! In my opinion
>> there is simply NO WAY that this HUGE object pointing  up from the
>> lunar surface could be any kind of natural formation. It MUST be
>> artificial!
>> It sure is not any crash dummy, weather balloon, flare, or
>> atmospheric inversion!

<snip>

>William, EBK and list,
>......... I am sure that the
>mapping tool it uses is quite similar to what a cruise missile
>uses to map unknown terrain. Now I'm not saying that this is the
>case, but that mapping equipment has been known to show ghost
>images before. So lets' stand back and wait. I'm sure that those
>more familiar with the equipment will be able to tell us more.

>Donnie W. Shevlin :)

Donnie and Friends,

Here is a post I sent to UpDates in March of this year.

>From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net>
To: "'updates@globalserve.net'" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Weirdness This Morning
>Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:36:42 -0500

>Just in case anyone else reports something like this........
>Around 5:00 a.m., Wednesday, March 11, 1998:

>This morning I was woken up by the _Moon_.  It was like
>someone turned the lights on.  I looked through the binocs
>and it looked almost full and _very_ bright.  It was very clear.
>It was WNW.  In about 20 minutes it had moved over by
>Erskine (Yonge&Eglinton) and was orange and the left side
>was shaded.  But what got me was it looked like something
>was cutting off the right top side down to about 3 o'clock.
>I watched through the binocs and could see something
>almost white move from about 3 o'clock up along the
>edge to 12 o'clock.  As the moon sank it looked like it
>was melting and I could see this structure sticking out
>at around 2 o'clock.  It was very prominent.  It was almost
>like the moon was turning as it sank and it really looked
>like it was melting.

>Yes, I am loosing it.

Or am I? Nick Balaskas could account for the melting effect but
couldn't hazard a guess about the structure I saw sticking up
from the Moon's surface.

Where was the location of Clementine's image on the Moon?

Anyone else want to hazard a guess as to what I saw?

Sue Kovios








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                             Re: Sturrock Panel

From: John White <mjawhite@digitaldune.net>
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 07:01:15 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 10:04:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Sturrock Panel


Dear List:

>Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 23:56:12 -0400
>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Sturrock Panel
>To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net>

>>Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 11:01:29 PDT
>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@FRONTIERNET.NET>
>>Subject: Re: Re.  Sturrock Panel
>>To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

>[Taking the liberty of copying this to the UFO UpDates list}

>Jerry wrote:

>>The Sturrock panel report is the best thing that's happened in a long
>>time, and the wide and respectful attention it has received is indeed
>>gratifying.

>Jerry,

>Can a small group of scientists, in such a short period,
>evaluate so few cases as an overall perspective of some 50 years
>evidence for the possibility of any extraterrestrial contact?

>Would you disagree that hardly constitutes a thorough scientific
>study?

<snip>

>James.


James, Jerry, List, ebk, . . .

While our thoughts are stirred by having the Sturrock Panel
examine accumulated evidence,  the idea that UFOs account for
that evidence will, at some point, have to rest on a rational
basis. It is an ironic, but interesting thought, that we might
learn as much about UFOs from a debate between the Sitchinistas
and the the panel over the anecdotal evidence from ancient
writings as we would learn from the panel's examination of more
current anecdotal "evidence."

Whether the UFO conclusion arises from revelation, authority or
analogy (each of which has its own form of rationality -
weak/robust depending on your particular mindset), or is on a
more scientfically acceptable basis of inductive/deductive
analysis of experience, backed up by repeatability of analysis,
will be largely irrelevant to certainty, unless we can kick the
tires and take a ride. . .And even this is problematic.

Thorough scientific studies of readily observable events,
(carbon dating comes to mind), abound whose premises are found
wanting, defective, and, in some cases, downright fraudulent, as
support for a scientific conclusion. Can we expect more from
the Sturrock panel, given the quantum and quality of the
evidence it will have to examine?

Until relatively recently, as those things go, the best
'scientists' could prove that the sun moved around the earth
based on then unassailable premises whose objective reality was
'certain'. Those who thought otherwise were brought before peer
review committees (panels) who examined their evidence.
Nowadays we chuckle at the blinders worn by the panelists.
Except for flat earthers and other assorted cranks, we easily
disregard the reasoning of those 'panelists'.

The problem with a scientific analysis of UFOs, however, is not
one involving reasoning from objectively observable events such
as the earth-sun system.  The problem is that there is no
analogous UFO system which can be subjected to any form of
analysis or reasoning other than speculative hypothesizing from
anecdotal or one-trick pony evidence of an observed event.

Each one of the observed events is unique to the observer. That
doesn't mean it didn't happen. That doesn't mean that it is not
similiar to, or indeed the same as, other reports of
observations. What it does mean is that the Sturrock panel is
left to putting paid to a theory of UFOs based on unique
observations forming a network of premises, without one of those
premises having any testability beyond examining the observer's
report of an observation.

Whether the 'observer' is a radar picture, or a circle in the
wheat, or a person with a tale to tell, or an anomaly in
background radiation, or a set of physical ailments and injuries
not explicable based on the reported event,  there is no
'observer' whose specific observations can be repeated as a
support to even rudimentary analytic verification.

So, I suspect that the panel will be left to discussing the
source of angels dancing on the head of a pin, there being no way
to count their number, regardless of the strength and rationality
of the wisdom of the idea that we are not alone in the universe.

John







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                             Re: Sturrock Report

From: John Rimmer <j_rimmer@library.croydon.gov.uk>
Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 13:33:05 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 09:56:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Sturrock Report

The P.L.A.Driftwood International Conspiracy in Exile is
operating on a borrowed computer at the moment, so I am unable
to quote extracts from previous postings. My apologies.

I am puzzled and not a little irritated by the increasingly
triumphalist attitudes of the ETH proponents to the muted and
entirely reasonable conclusions of the Sturrock Panel. As far as
I can see the only difference between their conclusions and the
Condon Report is that, unlike Condon, Sturrock feels that
science *would* be advanced by further study of the UFO
phenomenon. So do I.

Why Jerry, Bruce Maccabee and the others feel that this is any
sort of endorsement of the ETH is baffling. They say they found
NO EVIDENCE of any extraterrestrial involvement in the cases
they found puzzling. You really cannot be much clearer than
this. Perhaps the real acheivemnt of Sturrock is to come up with
a statement that both Jerry Clark, CSICOP and Magonia can agree
with!

I'm also interested (but have been unable to respond) to the
various threads on John Harney's "ETH Bulletin". He is being
attacked as a hard-nosed skeptic who is just out to debunk any
UFO case, so I wonder why no-one has picked up on his criticisms
of Klass's attempts to debunk the Travis Walton case? Or is it
that abductions are no longer politically-correct with the "hard
evidence", radar/visual crew? Don't forget, there were more
first-hand witnesses to this than most other cases. Just
wondering.

Yours, John Rimmer Magonia (still just about On-Line)
www.magonia.demon.co.uk






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                  Re: William Cooper Taking On Authorities

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 02:13:58 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 09:57:04 -0400
Subject: Re: William Cooper Taking On Authorities


>Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 13:05:54 -0700
>From: Don Ecker <decker@ufomag.com>
>To: Errol Bruce-Knapp <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: William Cooper Taking On Authorities

>Many of you that have been in the UFO field for along time will
>know who Milton Wm. "Bill" Cooper is. If this name is not
>familar to you as far as UFOs are concerned, 10 years ago Cooper
>was all the "rage" on the UFO circut. In 1990 I completed a
>several part expose on Cooper in the pages of UFO Magazine. I
>will upload them here in future messages.

Hey Big Don!

Welcome back to UpDates man! I just wanted to jump in with
two quick comments. Both of which are true. One is from you
and one is from Cooper.

1. Re: When Cooper burned all his bridges in the UFO arena,

>(if you
>ever disagreed with him or called him on his "facts" you were
>either called an agent of the secret government or perhaps
>assaulted by him physically or had your car tires slashed, or
>were subjected to a barrage of vile and abusive telephone calls.
>All of which are on various public records in a number of police
>departs.)

I can verify Dons' statement above as being factual. A certain
"well known researcher" (who shall remain nameless) played
a series of telephone messages from Mr Cooper that consisted
_solely_ of threats, raunchy insults, and profanity. Some of it
was really spooky to listen to. The guy sounded sinister, like
he really meant what he said. There was nothing 'funny' or
innocent (like a phone prank) in any of it.

Don "kids you not" with the above statements.

2. Re:
>Lee said, however, that both Cooper and Jacobs had spoken of
>Ruby Ridge and Waco, scenes of bloody confrontations that in the
>militia movement have become symbolic of federal government
>brutality and arbitrary power.

Don I agree that Coopers' rhetoric is nothing short of insane
paranoid rantings and ravings. I have six hours of this guys
lectures on tape (sent to me by someone who follows him) and you
don't have to have a degree in psychology from Harvard to 'grok'
that Cooper is one sick cowpoke. But like any other rant and rave
there is always a sprinkling of truth here and there. I agree
with his assessment of Waco and Ruby Ridge. It _was_ "symbolic of
federal government brutality and arbitrary power." And I'm not a
gun toting, whacked out, militia guy. I'm just an ordinary
American that was deeply pained and incensed at the careless
murder of women and children at the hands of Federal officials
that were armed with flame throwing tanks, loud (bad) music, very
little brains or sense, and combat assault weapons. Any way you
cut it it was overkill.

Some of those bastards that they hauled up before a congressional
hearing _should_have_been_ put over for prosecution. ATF
especially should have been reamed for their methods and tactics.
That hideous person Janet Reno is another one who literally got
away with murder!

Yeah, Cooper rants and raves, but every once in a while he
accidentally stumbles up on some truth. There are laws which
prevent the use of military force and equipment on our own
citizens. Yet that is precisely what happened at Waco! I agree
that Bill Cooper should be dismissed for the looney that he is,
but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater, this
particular 'rant' happens to be true. Americans shouldn't
forget Waco and the babies that died there so that there is
_never_ a repeat performance.

I came here armed, but only with two cents worth of opinions!
<G>

Great to have you back on the list Don!

Tu amigo siempre,

John Velez








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               Re: Aliens "Sloppier"? - Transcript of Hopkins

From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 07:08:35 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 10:16:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Aliens "Sloppier"? - Transcript of Hopkins

> Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 23:02:29 -0700
> From: Robert Stirniman <robert@skylink.net>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: Aliens "Sloppier"? - Transcript of Hopkins

> > From: Moderator UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net>
> > Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 13:38:27 -0400
> > Subject: Aliens "Sloppier"? - Transcript of Hopkins

> >The following segment is transcribed from the July 3rd 1998
> >edition of Jeff Rense's 'Sightings' radio show, in which Budd
> >Hopkins was interviewd, via phone, from Roswell, New Mexico.

> >The complete interview is available at:

> >http://www.audionet.com/shows/endoftheline/archive.stm

> <snip>

> > JR: If their protocols are breaking down Budd, what.....we can
> > only speculate, but it brings to mind right away the concept
> > that maybe they have done most of what they need done, and the
> > big change is about to happen and things are getting lax.

> Or maybe --

> If their protocols are breaking down.....we can only speculate,
> but it brings to mind right away the concept that they have
> not done most of what they need done, and a change is due
> to happen and things are getting desperate.

Somehow the phrase "sloppier like a fox," jumps quickly (and
brown-ly <g>)to mind.

Budd himself has said that the Brooklyn Bridge event seemed
almost staged for the audience.  And having argued that, it's
difficult for him to now argue the opposing view -- that the
Greys are trying to keep this completely secret.

In my experience of the Greys, they don't tend to miss much.  If
more people are becoming witnesses, and if abductees are
recalling more of their experiences, it's quite possible that WE
are the ones who have changed.  And equally possible that this
turn of events comes as no surprise to the Greys.

Perhaps I've told this story here before, but it warrants the
retelling.

I met a woman, an abductee, who's experiences always happened at
night, and seemed rather dreamlike.  During one of these
experiences she asked the Greys if they would come visit in full
physical reality, full waking consciousness, so she could tell
if her experiences were really real.

They said they could do that, but that she might not like the
consequences.  That she would be harrassed by a human agency.
They showed her an insignia representing this group of humans.
The insignia didn't seem familiar to her, but she sketched it
for her husband, a state trooper, the next day.  He took one
look at the insignia and said "NSA."

I know many abductees and contactees.  From this sample, I'd say
that those who have the most overt contacts, the ones that seem
most fully physical, also have the standard harrassment
experiences too.  This is beyond coincidence.  And frankly, I'd
trust the Greys before I'd trust some of our own intell people
any day.


--

Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
ICQ Pager 6797092






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   Jul > Jul 7

                            Re: Mexico City Fake

From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 11:30:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 13:19:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico City Fake


>Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 23:01:40 -0400
>From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Mexcity fake?
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Lindemann & Rense Tidy Up
>>Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 23:21:40 -0400

Dear Bruce,

>Please don't let your mind go blank. It's bad for your brain.
>(The synapses get lazy.)

My synapses usually go blank on overloading when the connections
get so intense that some sort of electrical building gets on the
way and I go: DZITT.


>When it became apparent two months or so ago that the video had
>problems I was at that time  being promised by Kiviat that I
>would have a comparison fake "soon" that he had requested for
>comparison. I still haven't got it. If things had worked out as I
>expected, however, I would have gotten it well over a month ago
>and then published a paper. As it is, I did announce this at the
>Mid Atlantic MUFON Symposium on May 12. I figured that Kiviat's
>fakers wouldn't hear about it as a result of telling that
>relatively small audience (less than 100).

[...]

>I wanted to wait until I had the fake in hand before general
>publication because I didn't want the guaranteed fakers of
>Kiviat's video to know what we were looking for so we could see
>if they made the same mistakes. However, that fake video has been
>completed and so it no longer matters whether they know or not
>(they can't modify what is already incorporated into Kiviat's
>production.)


Isn't Bob Kiviat the guy from FOX that Friedman and Randle
wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole? I hope you have a very long
spoon when you go lunching with the guy.


>I will not state, as does Sainio, that I am, 100 % confident that
>the Mexcity video of Aug 6 is a fake, but as I have said before,
>it has serious problems that might only be explained, if at all,
>by having access to the cameraman and the original camera.

This looks like the Santilli syndrome: for debunkers, no
evidence can ever be acceptable when it proves the reality of
UFOs, but, for some ufologists, no evidence can ever be
discarded even when its trash. Looks like the birth of another
urban legend.


This is why I go DZITT:

For two months (geez!) highly significant evidence has been
witheld to the interested people (e.g. the ones who have the
right to know) because credible ufologists were making business
with someone who applies to the Stacy Form. And since this is
not enough, we will still be talking of the Mexico Fake as
possible evidence in 10 years.

DZITT man, DZITT.

Serge Salvaille




__________________________________________
The Stacy Form:  please fill in the blanks

If he/she believes ___________ claims, then God help us all.
Begging _________'s pardon, but there hasn't been a bigger liar
in the field since the days of __________.

Let's cut the crap. ___________ is a goddam liar, pure and
simple. (And so is his co-confabulator, ___________.)

You can send him my e-mail address, and you can send his attorney
my e-mail address.

I repeat: ___________ is a goddam liar.

And anyone who believes him for more than a minute is a goddam
fool.

Have I made myself clear?

___________ is a goddam liar. ___________ is merely a man after a
buck.

Any questions?

                                 Signed: ___________________

PS: ___________ is a goddam liar.









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                      Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Tue, 07 Jul 98 09:23:03 PDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 13:15:24 -0400
Subject: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'


>From: RobIrving@aol.com
>Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 20:48:07 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

>>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'
>>Date: Mon, 06 Jul 98 09:21:57 PDT

>You wrote that Festinger's Theory of Cognitive Dissonance has
>been "pretty well challenged" by sociologists of religion,
>etc... Considering >how little of it is directly related to
>religion that's a broad statment. Are you talking about its
>derivative, re. disconfirmation & proselytism?

>It's an important distinction, which I'd like to hear you
>explain before I obsequiously accept such a sweeping dismissal.

Rob, I confess that I don't understand much of the above. I was
simply pointing out that Festinger has been challenged and that
key ideas expressed in 'When Prophecy Fails' have failed of
replication. I also noted, and you have failed to refute, a huge
historical error which unfortunately Festinger used to buttress
a key argument. Aren't you the guy who keeps quoting people who
say that you can't draw a sound conclusion from unsound
premises? Or is that another Rob Irving? Or does that apply
only to persons with whom Rob Irving disagrees?

(I might as well insert here, lest I sound as if I am
discouraging anyone from reading it, that 'When Prophecy Fails'
is a hugely entertaining book, its flawed theoretical premise
notwithstanding. It is as close to a comic novel as a
sociological tract gets.)

You were using Festinger, I couldn't help noticing, as some kind
of all-knowing authority figure who proved his virtue by bashing
people interested in UFOs, and you figured you could use him to
accomplish yet more bashing. I got the clear impression,
moreover, that you or he or both of you were not bothering to
draw any distinction between, say, Dorothy Martin and James
McDonald, Dorothy Martin and Walter Webb, or whatever. If that
is the case, I find it pointless to discuss the matter, since
the argument is flawed from the first and, may I add, dishonest.
It seems to me you want to have it not only both ways but all
ways. . Jerry Clark








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                             Re: Sturrock Report

From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Tue, 07 Jul 98 10:07:24 PDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 13:22:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Sturrock Report


>Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 13:33:05 +0100
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>From: John Rimmer <j_rimmer@library.croydon.gov.uk>
>Subject: Sturrock Report

>The P.L.A.Driftwood International Conspiracy in Exile is
>operating on a borrowed computer at the moment, so I am unable
>to quote extracts from previous postings. My apologies.

>I am puzzled and not a little irritated by the increasingly
>triumphalist attitudes of the ETH proponents to the muted and
>entirely reasonable conclusions of the Sturrock Panel. As far as
>I can see the only difference between their conclusions and the
>Condon Report is that, unlike Condon, Sturrock feels that
>science *would* be advanced by further study of the UFO
>phenomenon. So do I.

Ah, those PSHers. They just love to spin, don't they?


>Why Jerry, Bruce Maccabee and the others feel that this is any
>sort of endorsement of the ETH is baffling. They say they found
>NO EVIDENCE of any extraterrestrial involvement in the cases
>they found puzzling. You really cannot be much clearer than
>this. Perhaps the real acheivemnt of Sturrock is to come up with
>a statement that both Jerry Clark, CSICOP and Magonia can agree
>with!

Spin, spin, spin. Of course the panel was not there to decide
whether UFOs are ET or not. How John interprets what Bruce, I,
and others have written as claiming the panel's conclusions as
an "endorsement of the ETH" is baffling; but then I find much
PSH rhetoric baffling. Has John been off-line these past days?

Hey,John, listen up:

The panel was to look at a limited number of cases to see
whether further investigation of the UFO phenomenon is
warranted. Participants whom I've heard interviewed since then
have not ruled out the ETH as a possible explanation at the
other end of the scientific investigation that they say ought to
happen. The panel's concern was with what it had in front of it,
which was not enough to establish the correctness of ANY
hypothesis about UFOs, beyond the consideration that the
phenomenon has physical dimensions, conventional explanations
have so far failed for the most puzzling cases, and further
investigation is certainly warranted. Of course, knowing that
these sorts of concerns could lead to a renewed scientific look
at the ETH, New Scientist, New York Post, CSICOP, and other
guardians of orthodoxy have waxed hysterical in the past few
days. I am glad you are on our side on this one.

If you agree that further research on the physical aspects of
the UFO phenomenon is a good idea, John, and can face up to the
possibility that such research may lead to findings you won't
like very much, then your quarrel isn't with me, Bruce, Greg,
Mark, or anybody else who is more open-minded about the ETH than
you are. Your quarrel is with CSICOP and the debunkers with whom
Magonia has effected a de facto alliance in recent years. Direct
your complaints to the guys like Klass and other UFOphobes whose
books and wisdom you can't praise enough in Magonia.

In the meantime, don't try to make extravagant and unwarranted
claims about the panel's mandate. The PSH and the debunkers have
taken it in the chops in the past few days, and if you're man
enough to take it, you have my respect. I hope to see an
editorial in the next Magonia sticking it not to me for a change
(I can't be a subject of much interest to your readers, I should
think) but to the Sturrock panel's enemies, who seem ironically
to have a clearer-eyed understanding of its significance than
you do.

Jerry Clark









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   Jul > Jul 7

                     The Whistleblowers - Cooper Part I

From: Don Ecker <decker@ufomag.com>
Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 12:49:05 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 18:23:14 -0400
Subject: The Whistleblowers - Cooper Part I


'The Whistleblowers'
from UFO Magazine
by Don Ecker
copyright 1990
All rights reserved.

PART 1

As many of you know, UFO Magazine completed a story and
investigation on Milton Wm. Cooper in Vol. 5, No. 4 and 5.

Cooper, a very controversial figure in the UFO field, had been
making claims and pronouncements for the a number of years. We
spoke to many that knew him, and for you folks that are new here
at UPDATES, Cooper made his debut on ParaNet. At that time ( in
1988 ) he was "made" as a fraud by the former Administrator Jim
Speiser, and was removed from the system.

I had just received a copy of "NEW TIMES" NEXUS, a magazine that
is published in Australia. The issue is Volume 2 Issue 1 dated
October 1990. In this magazine is a story by Cooper with his
"Operation Majority". Now during the UFO Magazine investigation,
we found most of this information to be fabricated or
information that Cooper plagiarized. However it is a fact of
life that not everyone reads UFO, and Cooper was going public in
every area he could attain to. Therefore here is the expose from
UFO Magazine, Vol.5 Issues 4 and 5.

One other thing, I am also going to include a couple of things
that did not reach publication, because of space, and also the
fact that at the time we did not wish to "crucify" Cooper.
However, to paraphrase George Knapp, News Director of KLAS TV in
Las Vegas, "Cooper is like a cornered rat, desperate, vicious
and vile." He has "smeared, lied, threatened, and libeled
everyone that
has disagreed with him. With that, here is "WHISTLEBLOWERS Part ONE.

All Rights Reserved UFO Magazine
by Don Ecker
1990

************************************************************

Who are the UFO whistleblowers? They come out of relative
obscurity and burst into the center of ufological attention.
Making incredible claims of alien activity on earth and the
Government's deep but covert involvement. Without exception, the
whistleblowers of recent times only furnish the most hazy
evidence of their claims, if that.

Oftentimes they will also lay claim to having worked with or for
the government, in high enough positions to wield security
clearances and to have observed the most unequivocal
documentation.

Because these individuals fail to furnish proof for their
startling claims, and because many people have asked UFO
Magazine for a readout on their credibility, we are beginning a
series of investigative articles on certain individuals who fall
into the "whistleblower" category. Normally, UFO avoids focusing
on personalities, preferring to concentrate on the phenomenon
itself.

But these personalities force us to make an exception. Their
material has appeal and sensation value. But is it legitimate?
Who are the whistleblowers who are telling the truth ? Who are
the ruthless Pied Pipers forging a trail of lies and deception ?
Our series begins with Milton William Cooper.


COOPER

In the last several years, few have stirred the field of ufology
like Milton William Cooper. Cooper, born May 6, 1943, is a
balding 47-year-old man who has enthralled thousands with lurid
tales of dangerous UFOs and secret government treaties allowing
the alien menace to abduct and experiment on unwilling human
victims in exchange for advanced alien technology.

Raining threats and pronouncements over the UFO field like a
continuously firing shotgun, Cooper has recently leveled charges
of government spookery against a number of prominent ufologists
in the field, in many cases claiming to have seen their names on
a government recruitment list back in 1972 and 1973 while he was
purportedly serving in Naval Intelligence in CINCPACFLT
(Commander-in Chief, Pacific Fleet).

Not above accusing former friends and associates, Cooper has
charged various ufologists with illegal acts, moral turpitude
and of purveying disinformation that permeates the field. Now
with an agent to book speaking engagements at any and every UFO
event possible, Cooper is very fond of stating to his audiences,
"Don't take my word for it, go out and check the information
yourself." UFO Magazine has, and the following is the result of
our investigation.


Paranet debut

Who is M. Wm. "Bill" Cooper, and where did he come from?
Cooper's first public appearance resulted when he uploaded a
text on ParaNet, the international computer data service. The
file alleges a fantastic UFO sighting while Cooper was a crew
member of the U.S.S. TIRU, a United States Naval submarine, in
1966. According to Cooper, the sighting took place while he was
on duty as port lookout.

Claiming that the sub's skipper immediately classified the
incident, Cooper reported that when the submarine reached port,
the witnesses were debriefed by Naval Security.

During this time frame of Cooper's initial appearance on the
scene, John O. Lear, son of William "Bill" Lear of Lear Jet
fame, had also been undergoing ParaNet scrutiny as a result of
the release of his hypothesis concerning an alien threat. Lear's
document, released in December of 1987, had created quite an
uproar in its own right. Lear alleged that the U.S. government
had entered into a relationship with a possible ET intelligence,
and in exchange for super technology gave carte blanche to the
ETs to conduct experiments and abductions on unsuspecting human
beings.

Lear also claimed that the ETs, with our government's knowledge,
were mutilating domestic animals such as cattle and sheep, and
in some cases even human victims. Because much of Lear's
information was hypothesis, and little checkable information was
forthcoming, many ParaNet members and others in the UFO
community were asking very hard questions. In a number of in
stances, Lear's credibility was attacked.


When he again visited the ParaNet system, Cooper allied himself
with Lear, publicizing the claim that because of releasing his
UFO information, he had just been terminated from his $75,000 a
year job as the executive director of a commercial business
school.

In October of 1988, Cooper contacted this writer, requesting a
favor. Telling me at that time that "this is dangerous if anyone
finds out," he asked me to accept the electronic transfer of a
file into my computer, to be sent to Stanton Friedman with the
information of who wanted Friedman to see it. The document in
cluded information about purported government UFO involvement
under the terms MAJI, MJ-1, THE BLUE TEAM, GRUDGE, etc.-and,
according to Cooper, various other alleged secret government
projects dealing with the alien presence. I agreed to send the
information to Friedman. (I never heard anymore about it until
later, when Cooper was barred from ParaNet because of' claims of
feeding false and fraudulent information.)

I basically forgot about the file to Friedman until Cooper
released additional files with the claim that they were the
final release. But subsequently Cooper was to release several
"final" releases.


In one, he claimed, "MJ-12 is the name of the secret control
group... The Jason Society [was set up] to sift through all the
evidence, technology, lies and deception..." But later, in
another file, he stated, "MJ-12 cannot be used as a name for the
control group as it would cause confusion in meaning, i.e., is
it referring to MJ-12 the person or MJ-12 the group... ?"
(Italics added) By this time, I and others were becoming
confused with the various "final releases."


Project 'Luna'

In another public release, Cooper claimed that "Project Luna"
was an alien base on the far side of the moon which had been
observed by various astronauts, but changed the story in one
more "Final release," stating that it was the code name for an
underground base near Dulce, New Mexico.

In Cooper's later releases are a number of names that were never
mentioned in earlier releases, names such as JOSHUA and O.H.
KRLL or KRLLL, or CRLL, CRLLL, or even KRILL. When it comes to
answering whether these claims will bear up under serious
scrutiny, these names prove to be very important, as later
information in this article will show.


End of Part I






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   Jul > Jul 7

                     The Whistleblowers - Cooper Part II

From: Don Ecker <decker@ufomag.com>
Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 12:50:44 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 18:36:41 -0400
Subject: The Whistleblowers - Cooper Part II


'The Whistleblowers'
from UFO Magazine
by Don Ecker
copyright 1990
All rights reserved.

PART II


In part one of this series, UFO focused on the background of
Milton Wm. Cooper. Cooper's information raises many questions,
especially in light of its sensationalist nature and the
potential harm it may cause to unsuspecting, gullible innocents.

During the latter part of 1988 and the very first part of 1989,
Cooper's story varied widely from what he is presently
disseminating. In early January 1989, Cooper was interviewed by
a California researcher, Paul Shepherd. An excerpt of this
interview follows. Cooper: "While serving in the United States
Navy in 1972, I participated the intelligence briefing team of
the Commander-in Chief of the United States Pacific Fleet...
During this participation on the intelligence briefing team, I
came across a document called the Grudge Bluebook Report Number
13, and a file called the Majesty File... classified Above Top
Secret with a MAJIC classification, which means MAJI controlled;
MAJIC is the Majestic Agency for Joint Intelligence. It is the
organization that controls all the operations with UFOs and with
an alien race that is present on the Earth." In later
interviews, and especially after he began accusing researcher
Bill Moore of being an agent of the secret government, Cooper
began claiming that any file with the word "Majestic or forms
thereof, are a fraud, a lie."

Attempting to check on Cooper's claim of belonging to a
permanent intelligence briefing team while serving in the Navy
between 1970 and 1973, which would have allowed him access to
some classified documents, UFO called the United States Navy to
determine how the Navy conducts its briefing teams. UFO spoke to
Lt. Commander Ron Morse at the Office of Information-West. Lt.
Commander Morse stated that the Navy did not have permanent
briefing teams, but would form a temporary one on a need basis.

"Usually if a team is put together, it will last for no more
that two weeks," Morse said.

Many of Cooper's claims have been disputed not only by John Lear
and Bob Lazar, but also by Tony Pelham, former reporter for the
Las Vegas Bullet newspaper. All three men told UFO Magazine that
Cooper admitted early on that he had never been on a briefing
team, but had in fact "taken the documents, copied them and then
returned them." "Cooper told me that while he worked on the
graveyard shift, he would wait for the Lt. JG (Junior grade) to
go on a coffee break, and then somehow get into the classified
files," Pelham said. "I asked him if he broke into the files,
but he never answered me. "Cooper then told would take a number
of files,copy them, and then carry them out in his lunch pail.
He said he did this until he got all the files he needed."
Cooper called Pelham in early August. "He asked me why I had
turned away from him. He is really upset about all the people
who are attacking him... he said that if I turned against him,
he will crucify me next." Pelham also reports that when he asked
Cooper about his claim that all his stolen government documents
were lost in a garage fire, Cooper refused to give the date or
location of the fire so Pelham could check the police or fire
records, and would give no explanation for refusing to provide
information that would validate his story.

Other unsubstantiated information from Cooper has apparently
stimulated the fears and concerns of some people who have
undergone the "abduction"experience. East coast researcher
Marianne Shenefield, a nationally-known abductee who works with
many abductees, called UFO on several occasions and expressed
her own concern about what she heard while dealing with abduc
tion victims. She told UFO, "When Bill Cooper's paper 'The
Secret Government' came out, I had abductees all over the U.S.
calling me. Cooper said in his paper, and was claiming in his
lectures, that the government was going to round up abductees
and put them in concentration camps.

"I knew it was going too far when two abductees whom I have
worked with were talking about committing suicide. They were
terrified that the Army was going to come into their homes and
take them off to concentration camps." Cooper has stated that he
doesn't care who his information hurts or who it helps, but that
he will continue to put it out there because people "deserve the
truth." In his paper "The Secret Government," Cooper falsely
claimed that "Stanton Friedman has told me and many others that
years ago he helped develop a nuclear reactor the size of a
basketball, to power an aircraft. It was clean, turned out
hydrogen, and worked like a dream". UFO called Friedman, a
respected nuclear physicist and one of the top ufologists in the
United States. "Cooper's claim is totally fraudulent," Friedman
stated. "There is no truth to it at all." Friedman expressed
bewilderment when asked why he thought Cooper would make that
claim.


THe 'Orange'

UFO Magazine was present in the fall of 1989 at a UFO conference
hosted by the UFO Data Research and Intelligence Center, in
Modesto, California. Bill Cooper was one of the speakers, and
during the course of his lecture was asked by a member of the
audience if he knew how many types of aliens were presently on
earth. Cooper answered, "There are four types, and four only. .
. one group (is) very human looking; as a matter of fact they
are starring on television in "Alien Nation," the Orange....

According to the casting director of Alien Nation, Irene Kagan,
these remarks of Cooper's are totally false. "I can assure you
that all the 'alien' actors on the show are human," she said. "I
hired them."

On a recent broadcast of the "Billy Goodman Happening" on KVEG
from Las Vegas, researcher Lars Hansson (see article, p. 17)
debated Cooper on the air and pointed out some of the
inconsistencies that Cooper has espoused. Hansson brought up the
fact that at one time Cooper himself gave Bob Lazar his "stamp
of approval." Cooper vehemently denied ever having endorsed
Lazar's authenticity,

UFO has been following the Lazar story since it broke upon the
UFO scene. Cooper's claim that he never gave Lazar his support
or claims of legitimacy is untrue. On November 21, 1989, Bob
Lazar was a guest on the Billy Goodman Happening, and during the
audience call-in phase of the show, Cooper phoned in and said
the following over the air: "I'd like to clear up a couple of
misunderstandings here. Number 1, I would really like to thank
Bob Lazar for coming forward. I have been talking to him for the
last year, along with John Lear, we have met in groups and
privately. The man (Lazar) is a wealth of information. I am
tickled pink that he has finally decided to come forward and use
his real name, because it helps all of us... the reason he has
gotten into this predicament is because he is a Patriot. He
cares about this country and that is what made him do this..."
Goodman then broke in, saying, "That's beautiful, Bill, an
unsolicited testimonial, basically, that's what it comes down
to. "

Then Cooper continued, "First, I'd like to say that I
personally, and also Tony Pelham and also the Channel 8 news
staff - George Knapp and several other people, John Lear - we
have all investigated this man's background thoroughly because
we did not want to be sucked into a trap by the government. And
I can tell you that he is who he says he is. He has worked at
Los Alamos. He is a physicist, he is a theoretical physicist. He
has worked at Area S4 in Groom Lake. We have verified all of
this-not just me but several other people, and I have verified
it by two different sources of mine who are in the government.
One is at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratories... We are
always on the lookout for somebody trying to trap us and
something that we ean be discredited by. We have to do that
(background research) to protect our own credibility." Cooper
has subsequently attacked Lazar with claims that he knew all
along that Lazar was fraudulent. In his CAJI Newsletter, he now
presents a completely different tone than before, and writes of
"Lazar, the so-called physicist who claims to have seen flying
saucers.


End of Part 2






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   Jul > Jul 7

                    The Whistleblowers - Cooper Part III

From: Don Ecker <decker@ufomag.com>
Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 12:52:42 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 18:47:28 -0400
Subject: The Whistleblowers - Cooper Part III

------------------------------------------------------------------------
'The Whistleblowers'
from UFO Magazine
by Don Ecker
copyright 1990
All rights reserved.

PART III


In his CAJI newsletter, Cooper stated that "No one likes to be a
fool, but most ufologists are exactly that. I keep saying to do
research, to investigate, but no one does it. They just sit
around and call each other names." This reporter, representing
UFO Magazine, attempted to contact Cooper to verify his claims
by leaving a message on his computer service.

Cooper read the message and called about an hour later. When I
answered the phone, Cooper growled, "What the hell do you
want!?" When I attempted to explain that I was doing a story for
UFO and wanted to verify his claims, he shot back, "What are you
writing for your f***in' trashzine?" I then said that I had
received a copy of the CAJI newsletter and he replied, "I would
be very careful if I was you. That newsletter is copyrighted."


Cooper then stated, "I don't trust you or anyone you are
associated with. " The only response I was able to get con
cerned the allegation that Bob Lazar ran a speed lab. "John Lear
told me that out of his own mouth ... I got the information from
a man named Cory and Geoff who are good friends of John Lear. "

Just at that moment the phone rang with the call waiting
feature, and Cooper refused to hold 'till I could find out who
was calling. He refused to speak any further and hung up. This
seems out of character for a person who claims that his
information is legitimate.

As UFO Magazine was going to press, and as we expected, Cooper's
newest newsletter attacked this writer and the magazine. Cooper
now claims that Cory Testa was intimidated by UFO regarding the
claims that Bob Lazar is involved with drugs, and that UFO or
myself or both are a part of Cooper's paranoiac "secret
government."

The absurdity of this speaks for itself. But for the record, UFO
will attempt to get Testa's version of this. Researching and
accurately reporting facts are not Cooper's strongsuit.-D.E.

And UFO MAGAZINE CO-Publisher says...

There you have it. Don Ecker's article, documentary reports
researched and produced by George Knapp of KLAS-TV and what
Cooper has published in his CAJI newsletter are part of a
growing information base which should demonstrate why we have
chosen not to give space to the often false and specious claims
that Cooper purveys.

It is not our intention to single out individuals and "pick on"
them; it's simply very important that the truth or the closest
thing to it be established. A close reading of our
whistleblowers series, as it progresses, will demonstrate that
there are people in this field who have set themselves up for
examination and whose claims of truth are, at best,
cleverly-mouthed chunks of propaganda; some if not most will be
found wanting. Milton William Cooper has threatened, lied about
and attacked a number of people in the UFO field (I'm included,
as is Don Ecker). Along with slander and lying, he has a clear
history of contradicting himself, backtracking when caught in
those contradictions and then attempting to patch up his story
with a turnaround position based on sudden new claims that, true
to style, cannot be checked out.

A Bill Cooper could not maintain a foothold in any other field.
Such a bullying personality would have been "run out of town"
long ago. But the fact that this man and others like him still
can command some audience and are seen as having some veracity
and authority denotes a sore lack of discrimination on the part
of many in the UFO arena, if not outright foolishness.

But it should be likewise emphasized that this syndrome also
testifies to our collective frustration with the lies and secret
machinations of some powerful persons in the U.S. government,
cultivating many people's willingness to listen and 'follow just
about anyone who purports to be defending the Constitution and
who vocally demands accountability from the very government
officials in whom we should be able to place our trust.

It's so very important: Dedication to the absolute truth, to the
finer points of democracy, when exercised without caution and
discernment, plays right into the hands of those who would
shortcircuit those very precious qualities we hold dear. "Users"
of all political persuasions will exploit the emotional fervor
of the crowd to further their own selfish and inhumane ends.
(Some names to remember: Adolf Hitler, Joseph Goebbels, Joseph
Stalin, Joe McCarthy.)

It's imperative that we and I include everyone who shares the
vision of UFO Magazine-short-circuit such perniciousness at its
very core, striking at the heart of demagoguery with persistent
courage and honesty. Only personal commitment to humane and
truthful ideals, and the willingness to expose the truth, can
successfully overcome The Big Lie. UFO Magazine honors just such
a commitment. -Vicki Cooper


IN DEFENSE OF THE FACTS

When I began to look at Cooper's UFO-related information, our
purpose was to examine his claims and see how valid they were.
This endeavor started with Cooper's CAJI newsletter, and his
claims that people such as Bob Lazar, John Lear, Bill Moore and
others were engaged in various illegal or unethical acts.

But back in April and May of I990, Lazar, for instance, had NO
criminal charges even pending. Apparently Lear was targeted by
Cooper only because he appeared on the George Knapp special and
exposed some of Cooper's bogus information over the air.

When UFO tried to contact Cooper, he immediately blew up. Sure
enough, before too long he launched a smear campaign against the
magazine and this writer. Cooper has even called the magazine
and threatened to sue unless we print a complete retraction of
Part One, published in UFO, Vol. 5, No. 4.

Never a word that parts of the story (in his opinion) are wrong,
not a word that he wants his side told in these pages. Instead,
in his latest newsletter, Cooper has resorted once more to
smearing, innuendo and libel. He even engages in an incredibly
sophomoric, juvenile display by making scatological parodies of
my name, George Knapp's, and Vicki Cooper's.

I, for one, wiIl not be intimidated. UFO Magazine wilI continue
to report the truest facts available, and what is nice about
reporting facts is .. . they can be shown to everyone at any
time.

What is really sad about this story is the fact that I agree
with much of what Cooper says when he is speaking about an
erosion of Constitutional civil liberties. There are bizarre
things afoot in the land, each day becomes more uncertain, and
the public is simply not being told the true facts. However, one
thing about the First Amendment, that although it guarantees
freedom of speech, it does not allow the screaming of fire (with
no fire) in a crowded theater. Cooper has been screaming fire on
rainy days, and the problem with that is ... What do you do when
a real fire starts? Just like the kid who always cried wolf, no
one came when the wolf finally showed up.

What it appears we are dealing with is demagoguery. Demagoguery
in any form, with people following blindly, is always a
dangerous development. Examine everyone's information, do not
accept anything without checking it to the extent you are able,
and then check it again from another angle, if possible.

UFO Magazine's opinion is that this field is fraught with enough
dangers; tread carefully while walking down this path.

During this investigation UFO Magazine has found that much of
Cooper's material is entirely fabricated, lifted from
others'work, or facts he's selected and twisted to support his
own story. Several times Cooper has told those who have
disagreed with him or questioned his information,"I will crucify
you..." At what point will someone allow a demagogue to
intimidate him or her into silence? At what point will truth be
the final casualty in a war of words with liars?

I will report the truth as long as we publish, and if necessary
suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous slander.At some point
the public will learn that each demagogue DOES have his 15
minutes in the sun, but then the public learns WHAT IS THE
TRUTH. Don Ecker

Letters to the Editor:

Subj: BO GRITZ SAYS....

Editor: I've served most of my adult life as an intelligence
operative (Intelligence Officer, Delta Force; Commander,
Special Operations, VietNam: Commander Special Forces, Latin
America; Principal Agent, NSC-ISA). Unlike William Cooper, I can
prove this identity. I have been a Pilot for more than 30 years.
My assignments have taken me all over the globe including
Africa, Asia, Middle East, Latin America, et al.

Much of this time has been spent out in the open under the
stars. I have never witnessed a UFO in the classic saucer sense,
but I believe they exist nevertheless (Even Jimmy Carter says
so). While in England, enroute to Bangladesh, I bought and read
Above Top Secret, which strengthened my personal convictions.

This past month the Association of Former Intelligence Officers
and National Intelligence Counter Intelligence Association
included UFO reports (Belgian Air Force Colonel Wilfried de
Brouwer) in their monthly INSUMS (Intelligence Summaries).

As a Chemical, Biological, Nuclear trained officer, I know that
"the" government lied about gassing sheep in Montana with
GB-Agent, infecting San Francisco with a virus, and the proposed
use of underground nuclear demolitions to construct a new
canal in Nicaragua. They denied Frank Powers U-2 over Russia,
SR-71, and Stealth. Why wouldn't they cover-up UFOs (classic or
otherwise)?

I obviously don't know much about flying saucers, even though I
have more than a dozen friends, including pilots, who are eye
witnesses to UFO sightings. I know a lot more about people and I
certainly know the intelligence system. I have examined military
records on Bill Cooper. I have spoken with him and listened to
him on telephone recorded audio tape. I feel compelled to add my
opinion to that of George Knapp, Ed De Mar and others. I am
absolutely convinced that Cooper is a charlatan. There is no
doubt that he has information concerning government cover-up,
which is easily vacuumed from the presentations and publications
of others.

When I retumed from Burma's Golden Triangle with videotape of
overlord Khun Sa accusing U.S. officials of being his best
customers, Cooper started saying that drugs were funding the
secret government UFO campaign.

Only God and Cooper know if he actually observed a UFO, but I
don't buy his story about being a part of Naval Intelligence. I
have a Top Secret Crypto clearance with access to Special
Intelligence, which is clearly imprinted on my records. None of
the Cooper file shows him to have these basic intelligence
clearances, without which he would be denied access to
classified materials.

I also have been granted coded clearances which open doors when
combined with a "need to know" to highly selected
"compartments" of information. If Cooper were real, he would
have long ago referenced the proper codes that deal with
information he says was available to him. 1 believe Bill
Cooper is a fraud. There is enough wrong with the government.
Cooper types only hurt honest efforts to gain truth. His fare
would be more accurately billed as "entertainment."

As Chief of Special Activities on the Army General Staff, I
regularly briefed the U.S. Army Chief of Staff and the other
generals. I know and have experience working with Admiral
Isaac Kidd (former Commander in Chief, Atlantic) and his
staff.

There were no enlisted men on the "briefing team." Field grade
officers (Major and up) normally furnish information to these
key decision makers. Classifed information is carefully guarded,
especially the compartmented information that Cooper refers
to.

Without the proper coded access and a need to know, you don't
get in!

I don't buy Bill's "testing" the government by mixing up code
names (Majestic vis Majority). Every time someone produces
information contradicting Cooper, he changes, adds to, or
reveals yet another personal revelation he read in the cloak ed
documents way back when. St. John should have had such access.
Cooper has more twists than a snake. He is also dangerous. I
listened to a telephone answer tape wherein Cooper badgered,
bribed, threatened, cried, and then later allegedly slashed the
tires on a man's car.

Cooper talks and acts like a number of other fakes I know. They
seem to want someone, anyone, to do anything that might threaten
them since to be that important would enhance their own
self-image. In the absence of real threats they conjure them up.
I don't begrudge whatever popularity or success he may garner
that is show biz. But I do feel he is hurting the credibility
and honesty of sincere researchers at a time when we are facing
a true peril from within. The secret government needs to be
exposed and expunged before it turns us into economic slaves
through King George's "New World Order." Cooperites dull our
cutting edge of truth. I exhort William Cooper to stop his
Bush-lip and focus his energy and resources on unmasking the
real villains.

This is the first time I have written a letter to the editor.
Strange that with all that is going on, it would be to a
publication I haven't read, about a person I hope if there are
ETs will soon be beamed up.

Please send me info on your magazine.It wasn't on our Pentagon
reading list, but maybe it should be.

 James "Bo" Gritz
 Center for Action
 Sandy Valley, NV

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

End of Part 3






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   Jul > Jul 7

                    The Whistleblowers - Cooper Addendum

From: Don Ecker <decker@ufomag.com>
Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 12:55:49 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 18:58:40 -0400
Subject: The Whistleblowers - Cooper Addendum


The Rest of the Story.

Don Ecker

----------------------------------------------------------------

This information was not included into the Cooper story, and as
promised, I will now relay it.

Cooper, during his initial exposure in the public, was on the
Billy Goodman Happening in 1988 or 1989. One of the people that
heard Cooper was a well known Hollywood entertainment figure,
Michael Callan. Callan was fascinated by the information that
Cooper was giving, and ended up contacting Cooper. Callan, and a
close friend of his, Doug Deane, decided that they would use
their entertainment contacts, and professionally "market"
Cooper. Callan and Deane set up a business called "Need to Know
Productions", and sunk money into setting up Cooper on the
"lecture tour".

Callan and Deane videoed Coopers lectures, and gave him the
benefit of their combined knowledge of Hollywood to go out and
sell himself. Setting up Cooper at lectures, and finding an
agent for him at "Spotlight Enterprises", Callan and Deane made
a heavy investment. Cooper signed a contract with Deane and
Callan, and when he saw how much money he "could" be making,
tried to squeeze Callan and Deane out of their contract. Callan
had had suspicions earlier when Cooper spoke to him about trying
to squeeze Stan Barrington (Coopers business manager) out, but
then Cooper found out that it would cost him $15,000. Barrington
stayed, but one night, Cooper indulging in his childish temper
tantrums, and drinking heavily, made 10 ( that is TEN ) phone
calls to both Callan and Deane, threatening them with public
ruin, death, property damage, and slander if they did not give
him the master copies of the tapes that they had videoed for
him. Both men (Callan and Deane) ended up phoning the police,
and they had Cooper placed on file.  Later, Cooper went to
Deanes home, was witnessed by Deanes gardener, and tried to
force his way into Deanes house. Later, when Deane returned
home, found all the tires on his car slashed.  It is interesting
to note, that one of Coopers threats to Deane, mentioned his car
tires. The police investigated, but it ended up that no charges
were filed. They found prints but the prints were so badly
smudged they could not get a match.

Later both Callan and Deane made an audio tape called Cooper
Exposes Cooper and sold it nationally. In this tape you get a
true insight into Coopers personality. According to Deane,
Cooper was drinking very heavily then, and on the night in
question he was roaring drunk when he called. This tape is
available in Real Audio on the UFO Magazine website. However it
is not for children's ears or someone with refined tastes.

Prior to the above events, one of Coopers invitations to speak
were from a German UFO group. Cooper was invited by Michael
Hesseman, a German "New Age UFOlogists" to appear in Germany.
Cooper had accepted, and demanded 5000 Duetch Marks ( $3000 US )
plus his plane ticket, room, board, and the other things that
Hesseman had promised.  Hesseman sent Cooper all of the above,
but because of a German Postal Strike, word of the event was
late in getting out in Europe. Cooper had planned, according to
Hesseman, in making money in "workshops" while the UFO event was
going on, and because the event would not be so well attended,
became upset. Hesseman offered to reschedule the event, or set
it up later, but Cooper refused, and then told Hesseman that if
he wanted him to come, he needed another 5000 Duetch marks, or
he refused. Hesseman did not have the money, so Cooper informed
Hesseman that he would not fly over, and then refused to refund
Hessemans cash.

And another event with Mr. Cooper which shows his pathological
side happened on my own radio show. I had on as a guest Carl
Pflock, a name you may be familiar with. Pflock was a former
Asst. Sec. Of Defense under the Reagan Administration and was a
former officer in the CIA. We were discussing a number of items
and I was taking telephone calls. I put "John" from Atlanta on
the air and he suddenly started attempting to embarrass Pflock
and myself. The call screener flashed me a note from another
caller (all in about 20 seconds) alerting me that "JOHN" was
really Bill Cooper. Then I recognized his voice! Well the upshot
was I got into trouble with station management when I called
Cooper an Ass Hole on the air.

But you may not know how pathological Cooper really is. After my
Expose he subjected us to years of abuse. One example was his
call to an abductee back in 1990 that had been working with a
guy by the name of Martin Cannon. Cannon, you may know, wrote a
tract called "The Controllers" where he hypothesized that many
abductee's may in fact be government mind control experiments.
Cannon and I had gotten off to a very bad start back in 1988.
Martin was very left wing and knew I was a Viet Nam veteran.
Just let me say he and I were not on the best of terms. At any
rate Cooper knew that and called this abductee, claiming to be
me (she taped it, Coopers voice was unmistakable and he was
drunk) and said words to the effect that "Cannon better watch
himself when he spoke about UFO Magazine" or "I'll come to get
your KNEE'S!!!" Cooper loves to mention "coming to get your
knee's". He made the same kind of threats to Michael Callan and
Doug Deane.

Another example of Coopers un-wired mind was to try to smear
Vicki Cooper Ecker, Editor of UFO Magazine, by claiming she was
a secret government agent. His biggest proof? Vicki's uncle was
Grant Cooper, a very prominent Los Angeles Criminal attorney,
was one of the lead attorneys defending Sirhan Sirhan, the
assassin of Robert Kennedy. He had also defended a number of
high profile mob figures. Cooper claimed that Vicki was
recruited by the secret government at this time of the
assassination. He failed to mention that in 1968 she was a brand
new mother with an infant.

Then Cooper tried to pull the biggest con, he claimed that Vicki
was the former book-keeper for Sydney Biddle Barrows, the
Mayflower Madam, from Washington DC. After Barrows was arrested
the CIA sent Vicki to Los Angeles to set up UFO as a CIA front.
How could he get away with this kind of crap? Well he must have
read Joseph Goebbels and Adolph Hitler, the bigger the lie, the
more likely it is that they will believe it. However his motto
was: "The Only Way To Defeat The Enemy Is To Attack..Attack..
Attack.. And Attack Again!  And If You First Don't Succeed,
Attack Them Again Until You Do Succeed!"

He launched a campaign against me personally claiming I was not
in Viet Nam, never a police officer, and would often call the
office leaving abusive messages on the phone. We sought several
attorneys who were willing to sue Cooper but wanted anywhere
between $5,000.00 -to $10,000.00 to begin the suit. It was not
worth it. The people that Cooper catered to were for the most
part as disaffected as he was.

Now that there are federal warrants out for Cooper, I have heard
a number of people worry that another Ruby Ridge or Waco was in
the offing. Just allow me to say this. I do not believe for one
second that it will come to that. I wouldn't want it to happen
(Ruby Ridge or Waco) to anyone....not even a Bill Cooper. My
biggest reason? Having known Cooper in the past, it won't happen
because at the core of Cooper is simply a bully and a coward.
Somehow this will be resolved and Cooper will end up being tried
for fraud and tax evasion. The end of this story?? Who knows....

Don Ecker
UFO Magazine
www.ufomagazine.com

  The End ...for now.






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                            Re: Filer's Files #26

From: George Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 17:16:37 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 19:41:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #26


>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 17:47:57 -0700
>From: Jeff Westover <jeff.westover@mailexcite.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Filer's Files #26

>>From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
>>Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 16:54:02 EDT
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Filer's Files #26

>>Port Washington Bob Mueller reports that saw black helicopters
>>fly over his house on Saturday, June 13, 1998, and then again on
>>Sunday. On both days, five helicopters flew north and then came
>>back a few hours later heading south. They looked like UH-60
>>Blackhawks gunships with a capacity for about a dozen troops
>>apiece. There were no markings, but those low-visibility paint
>>sc hemes make it tough to see. Sunday night, at about 11:00 PM,
>>I went out to my car to get something, and I saw a moving,
>>flashing orange light very high in the sky directly overhead.
>>When it flashed, it was very bright (so much so, it's reflection
>>off my car/glasses caught my attention enough to cause me look
>>DIRECTLY up). It appeared to be moving in straight line. The UFO
>>was heading due North - the same heading (and along virtually
>>the same path) as the helicopters. I watched it for about 10
>>seconds, then ran inside to get my wife Michele. We came out
>>maybe 30 seconds later, but by then it was gone. Was a satellite
>>catching the sun? I wonder. Thanks for the E-mail submission
>>from Bob Mueller.

>I believe this report to actually be from Port Washington,
>Wisconsin (north of Milwaukee and sitting on Lake MICHIGAN).

Yes, the post should read UFO near Lake Michigan, in the state of Wisconsin.

Regards,






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               Re: Aliens "Sloppier"? - Transcript of Hopkins

From: Bill Weber <buck@cchat.com>
Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 16:24:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 19:55:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Aliens "Sloppier"? - Transcript of Hopkins


>Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 07:08:35 -0700
>From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Aliens "Sloppier"? - Transcript of Hopkins
>
>> Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 23:02:29 -0700
>> From: Robert Stirniman <robert@skylink.net>
>> To: updates@globalserve.net
>> Subject: Re: Aliens "Sloppier"? - Transcript of Hopkins
>
>> > From: Moderator UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net>
>> > Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 13:38:27 -0400
>> > Subject: Aliens "Sloppier"? - Transcript of Hopkins
>
>> >The following segment is transcribed from the July 3rd 1998
>> >edition of Jeff Rense's 'Sightings' radio show, in which Budd
>> >Hopkins was interviewd, via phone, from Roswell, New Mexico.
>
>> >The complete interview is available at:

>> >http://www.audionet.com/shows/endoftheline/archive.stm

>> <snip>

>> > JR: If their protocols are breaking down Budd, what.....we can
>> > only speculate, but it brings to mind right away the concept
>> > that maybe they have done most of what they need done, and the
>> > big change is about to happen and things are getting lax.

>> Or maybe --

>> If their protocols are breaking down.....we can only speculate,
>> but it brings to mind right away the concept that they have
>> not done most of what they need done, and a change is due
>> to happen and things are getting desperate.

>Somehow the phrase "sloppier like a fox," jumps quickly (and
>brown-ly <g>)to mind.

>Budd himself has said that the Brooklyn Bridge event seemed
>almost staged for the audience.  And having argued that, it's
>difficult for him to now argue the opposing view -- that the
>Greys are trying to keep this completely secret.

Hi Skye,

Not to be picky, but Hopkins did say;

>BH: ..... I wanted to talk about some recent cases that I've
>I've just begun to look into and these have been investigated
>very thorougly. What they would indicate is that the UFO
>occupants have been getting even a little sloppier. Unless
>they're deliberately wanting us to see things.

At the beginning of the portion Errol recorded, Hopkins also said
something to the effect that he (Hopkins) wished that in
interview shows such as Rense's, it was an alien rather than
himself who was answering questions about alien intent.  Hopkins
made it clear that he was uncomfortable in discussing an "alien
agenda," and it was within that context that he made the above
statement.   Even so, Hopkins says nothing to contradict his
suggestions in "Witnessed."






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              Roswell Draws 10,000 Visitors For 'UFO Encounter'

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk=20
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 04:32:49 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 08:11:46 -0400
Subject: Roswell Draws 10,000 Visitors For 'UFO Encounter'

From: The Amarillo Globe.

http://www.amarillonet.com/stories/070798/new_LG3165.001.shtml


Stig

*******

Web posted Tuesday, July 7, 1998 5:41 a.m. CT

Roswell draws 10,000 visitors for UFO Encounter

ROSWELL, N.M. (AP) - Some 10,000 visitors filled Roswell motel
rooms through the weekend for the '98 edition of the city's UFO
Encounter, commemorating the purported crash of a flying saucer.

"I consider it a success," said Johnny Johnson, director of the
Roswell Convention and Civic Center. "We had 90 percent of the
motel rooms filled up in the last four days."

Back in July 1947, so the story goes, the government recovered a
UFO and alien bodies from an isolated Roswell-area ranch, then
covered up the whole thing.

Last year's 50th anniversary celebration brought in 48,000
people, according to the state Department of Tourism, although
Johnson believes that number might be inflated. The anniversary
also prompted more than 1,000 articles from March through
December 1997, reaching 46.1 million people.

Johnson said this year's celebration, which ended Sunday, can't
be compared to last year's.

"This is not the 50th anniversary," he said. "You can't expect
the same amount of people. The media didn't cover the event like
they did last year."

The 30-plus vendors at the UFO Expo and Trade Show were about
evenly divided between those who reported financial success and
failure, he said.

But for future events to succeed, there's got to be more than
UFO souvenirs because merchandising doesn't bring in visitors,
Johnson said. He'd like to see speakers, exhibits and
presentations based on mankind's space travel experiences.

"We need to mix science fiction with science. . . . We need to
offer attractions that are educational and show that reality is
just as wild as the imagination is," he said.


We'd love to hear your feedback.
=A9 1998 Amarillo Globe-News

Webmaster








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   Jul > Jul 8

                                My SETI Post

From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 22:01:11 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 07:59:11 -0400
Subject: My SETI Post


Dear list,

I received the following two messages from SETI in response
to one I wrote, and was asked to post the responses
here (fair enough). I have deleted a whole bunch of "forwards"
and "CCs" and the like, because their quantity was beginning
to frighten me.

>Animosity and/or envy are, IMO, justifiable in the case of
>SETI. That project has been the proud recipient of millions
>dollars in funding, and has, to my knowledge, never had to
>produce results to maintain that funding.

>Greg



Greg,

Perhaps your knowledge of the status of Government-supported
SETI is not current.Congress terminated the NASA HRMS (High
Resolution Microwave Survey) program in 1993. For the past five
years, SETI has received no public funding whatever. The SETI
League is a self-supporting, grass-roots nonprofit effort
involving over 800 members in 45 countries on five
continents. Our members pay for their own equipment, conduct a
credible scientific search, have already had results (albeit not
necessarily the ones they had sought initially), and are not
asking you or anyone else for a dime. Please respect our freedom
to waste our own time and money any way we wish, and refrain
from accusing us of being "the proud recipient of millions
dollars in funding. "In invite you to visit our website,
<http://www.setileague.org/>, to learn more about the true
status of SETI. I would greatly appreciate it if you'd post my
comments to the lists on which yours were posted.Thank you.

H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D.
--Executive Director, The SETI League, Inc.
433 Liberty Street,
PO Box 555,
Little Ferry
NJ 07643 USA
voice (201) 641-1770;
fax (201) 641-1771;
URL http://www.setileague.org/
email work: n6tx@setileague.org;
      home: drseti@csrlink.net

"We Know We're Not Alone!"

----------------------------------------------------------------


>Besides, what do you do with a ten thousand year old signal
>anyway.. respond to it?

>Greg

How about be utterly thrilled to learn for certain that there is
at least one other intelligent civilization in the Universe, for
starters? Then we can analyze the signal to try and learn more
about it, who sent it, etc.

Responding -- at least if one is hoping for a quick reply -- may
be out of the question in this case, but it is not the most
important thing to do,

as is sometimes thought.

Larry Klaes <lklaes@zoomtel.com>





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                             Re: Sturrock Report

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:12:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 07:48:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Sturrock Report


> Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 13:33:05 +0100
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> From: John Rimmer <j_rimmer@library.croydon.gov.uk>
> Subject: Sturrock Report

> The P.L.A.Driftwood International Conspiracy in Exile is
> operating on a borrowed computer at the moment, so I am unable
> to quote extracts from previous postings. My apologies.

> I am puzzled and not a little irritated by the increasingly
> triumphalist attitudes of the ETH proponents to the muted and
> entirely reasonable conclusions of the Sturrock Panel. As far as
> I can see the only difference between their conclusions and the
> Condon Report is that, unlike Condon, Sturrock feels that
> science *would* be advanced by further study of the UFO
> phenomenon. So do I.

> Why Jerry, Bruce Maccabee and the others feel that this is any
> sort of endorsement of the ETH is baffling. They say they found
> NO EVIDENCE of any extraterrestrial involvement in the cases
> they found puzzling. You really cannot be much clearer than
> this. Perhaps the real acheivemnt of Sturrock is to come up with
> a statement that both Jerry Clark, CSICOP and Magonia can agree
> with!

Stop me before I kill again, but....did Jerry, Bruce, or for
that matter anyone at all think the Sturrock crowd endorsed the
ETH?

Not that I noticed.

This debate is growing truly bizarre.

As for the difference between Condon and this, the reaction of
the world at large tells the whole story. The reaction to Condon
was "Scientists say UFOs are nonsense." The reaction to Sturrock
was "Scientists say UFOs aren't nonsense." You can split hairs
all you want about similarities in details, but the overall
impact -- and the tone of voice -- was dramatically different.

Greg Sandow






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             Researcher Seeks Answers To Report Of UFO Crash In

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 04:27:10 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 08:11:37 -0400
Subject: Researcher Seeks Answers To Report Of UFO Crash In

From: The Southeast Missourian, Cape Girardeau's only daily, via two
emails which Larry Clark posted to NY MUFON's mailing list on July 7.
To subscribe go to

http://www.nymufon.org

Peggy O'Farrell is a staff writer for the Southeast Missourian,
by the way.

E-MAIL

peggyo@semissourian.com

SNAIL MAIL

Southeast Missourian
301 Broadway
Cape Girardeau, MO 63703
PHONE (573) 335-6611, ext. 122
 FAX  (573) 334-7288


Best

Stig


*******


NY Mutual UFO Network Postings - http://www.nymufon.org

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Local UFO probe Researcher seeks answers to report of crash in 1941.


By Peggy O'Farrel
Southeast Missourian


A Virginia man is investigating the possibility that a UFO
crashed near Cape Girardeau in 1941. "That would be six years
before Roswell," said James Westwood of Centreville, Va.,
referring to the 1947 incident in which the government allegedly
recovered and then covered up a UFO crash in New Mexico. "That
would put Cape Girardeau County on the UFO map," he said.

Southeast Missouri already is known for UFO activity. Dr. Harley
Rutledge, a former chairman of the physics department at
Southeast Missouri State University who is now retired, has
investigated reports of strange sights seen flying through the
skies near Piedmont and other UFO reports.

"Project Identification: The First Scientific Field Study of UFO
Phenomena" outlines Rutledge's research.

Westwood said Rutledge told him he has not heard of the 1941
incident. Westwood, a retired Navy man and engineer, is looking
for people who may remember an incident from 1941 when some type
of aircraft reportedly crashed approximately 3 to 15 miles
outside Cape Girardeau.

Westwood bases his investigation on an account by Charlotte
Mann, a Texas woman whose grandfather, the Rev. William Huffman,
was the pastor of Red Star Baptist Church from 1941 to 1944.

Leonard H. Stringifield, a renowned UFO investigator, recounted
Mann's story in the July 1991 issue of his "Status Report," a
monthly publication on UFO activities and investigations.

Mann told Stringfield her grandfather got a call one spring
night from police asking him to accompany them to the site of an
airplane crash outside town in case the victims needed a
clergyman.

"A car was sent to get him, but grandmother said it wasn't a
police car," Mann said in Stingfield's recounting of the story.
When Huffman got to the crash scene, Mann said, he noticed one
piece of the wreckage that appeared to have a rounded shape with
no edges or seams," and a "very shiny metallic finish."

"Police officers, "plainclothes men" and "military officers"
were already at the scene sifting through the wreckage, Mann
said. Laid to one side of the scene were "three bodies,  not
human," she recounted. "It was hard for him to tell if they had
on suits or if it was their skin, but they were covered head to
foot in what looked like wrinkled aluminum foil," Mann said. "He
could see no hair on their bodies and they had no ears. They
were small framed like a child, about 4 feet tall, but had
larger heads and longer arms."  Their faces had "large,
oval-shaped eyes, no noses, just holes and no lips, just small
slits for mouths," Mann said.

Huffman was told by one of the military officers at the scene
not to tell anyone what he had witnessed for security reasons,
Mann told Stringfield. Huffman told his wife, Floy, and their
two sons what he had seen when he returned home from the crash
site but never spoke of it again, said Mann.

Huffman died in 1959. His wife, who died in 1984, told Mann the
story. A few weeks after the crash, Huffman was apparently given
a photo of two men holding one of the corpses found at the
scene. Mann  father (sic!) loaned the photo to a friend but
never saw it again.

Now Westwood, who read Mann's account in Stringfield's
publication, is looking for others who may remember hearing
about the crash. "What you need here is another source, at least
one other person who says, I sort of remember this," Westwood
said. "Even if it's second-hand account, you've at least got
another source.

"Mann's account says the crash happened in the spring (sic!).
Westwood speculates it may actually have happened in the fall
because of the mention of a field fire caused by the crash. In
the spring, he reasons, vegetation would have been too wet to
burn easily. "But in the fall, it's very dry," he said.

He also speculates the military officers on the scene may have
been called in from an Army Air Corps base in Sikeston at the
time. If the crash happened, the military and police wouldn't
have known what they were looking at, Westwood said, because
Roswell and the other early UFO sightings hadn't happened. And
the incident may have been covered up for military security
reasons since the U.S. was gearing up for World War II, he said.
"It wouldn't be implausible" for the incident to have been
reported as an airplane crash," Westwood said.

Westwood began researching Mann's story at the beginning of the
year. He has been in Cape Girardeau for the last week reviewing
local records and looking for potential sources. He hasn't had
much luck. So far; no one he has talked to has admitted to
knowing anything.

"There isn't anything that I would consider even close,"
Westwood said. He found a report of a student pilot's airplane
crash near Morley in Scott County in May 1941, and a local pilot
told him about another crash near Oak Ridge that happened in
spring 1941.

The other problem is the Huffmans left the area not long after
the alleged crash. The Cape Girardeau city directory lists the
Huffmans from 1942 to 1944, but they aren't listed in the 1945
directory. Records from the Southeast Missourian say Huffman
became the pastor of the church in September 1941.

And Stringfield, who investigated hundreds of reports of UFO
crashes and retrievals, died in 1994. His family has refused to
release his files to other researchers.

Westwood says he has never seen a UFO or been in contact with
extraterrestrials. "There's no doubt in my mind that UFOs are
real flying objects from outer space," he said. He points to
similarities in thousands of sightings and reports from people
who have reported having contact with extraterrestrials as
evidence that something is out there. But what he calls the
"cultism" surrounding the study of UFOs and false reports by
attention-seeking hysterics detracts from evidence given by
witnesses or people who claim contact, Westwood says, "aren't
any crazier than anybody else." (sic!)

Tracing UFO reports is "an interesting kind of detective story,"
Westwood said. "It's a Sherlock Holmes kind of thing in which
you have to sort through a lot of BS looking for those nuggets.
In the end, some of the things fit, and some things don't."

The Roswell crash and recovery isn't the only UFO crash in the
annals of the study of UFOs, Westwood said. "It's just the best
known," he said.

Anyone with Information about a 1941 crash may contact James
Westwood at

5608-34 Willoughby Newton Drive, Centreville, Va., 20120,

or call him at

(703) 222-0978.


NY Mutual UFO Network Postings - http://www.nymufon.org

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   Jul > Jul 8

                     Mars Life? Rock Hardens The Debate

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 04:39:33 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 08:11:17 -0400
Subject: Mars Life? Rock Hardens The Debate

From: The Philadelphia Inquirer

http://www.phillynews.com:80/inquirer/98/Jul/07/front_page/MARS07.htm

Stig

*******

July 7, 1998

Mars life? Rocks harden the debate

By Faye Flam
INQUIRER STAFF WRITER

Two years after NASA scientists announced finding what they
thought was evidence of life on Mars -- fossilized remains in a
Martian rock -- experts are dug into two camps -- "no-life" and
"pro-life."

At stake in the debate is what could be one of the greatest
scientific discoveries ever made. An example of life beyond
Earth would hint that life permeates the universe.

Also at stake is the chance to inject a new sense of purpose --
the search for life -- into NASA's multibillion-dollar plan to
send an armada of 13 spacecraft to Mars in the coming decade.
The renewed hope that Mars once harbored life boosted the
excitement over last July's landing of the Pathfinder
spacecraft.

Though Pathfinder and its successor, Mars Global Surveyor, are
considered success stories, many of the missions planned to
follow are back on the drawing board due to cost overruns.
Scientists are questioning whether NASA's plan can really
determine whether there was life on Mars.

The rock that sparked so much hope in 1996 left Mars 16 million
years ago, probably ejected by an asteroid. It wandered through
space until 13,000 years ago, when it smacked into Antarctica.
Since it was found in 1984 in a region called Allan Hills, it
has become known to scientists as ALH84001, or ALH.

At the time the life claim came out, presented by teams from
NASA and Stanford University, much of ALH had been broken into
about 65 pebbles and chips that were distributed to different
laboratories. Since then, many more pieces have been broken off
and studied.

Derek Sears falls into the no-life camp. The meteorite
specialist from the University of Arkansas arrived at a
scientific meeting in Houston last spring with highly magnified
pictures of moon rocks that appeared to be crawling with the
same sorts of wormlike mini-microbes found in ALH.

"See, there's life on the moon," he announced. Then, to be sure
the sarcasm wasn't lost, he explained that these look-alike
lifeforms were really blobs of a metallic coating. It was the
same type of coating that NASA scientists had applied to pieces
of ALH to render it visible under high-powered electron
microscopes.

Facing down such attacks has become routine for the pro-life
side. They say that Sears' fake moon bugs are smaller than most
of their Mars bugs. Blobs of coating may have formed, they
confess, but at least some of the Mars bugs are real.

One reason many scientists say they didn't immediately dismiss
the life-on-Mars finding as some sort of wacky UFO-related claim
was the involvement of Richard Zare, the only member of the team
considered famous. The Stanford University chemist made a name
for himself by pioneering a technique for detecting minute
traces of chemicals using a series of laser pulses.

He got involved in Mars completely by accident in 1995, when
NASA sent his lab two mysterious rock samples, dubbed "Mickey"
and "Minnie." "We didn't want to work with them," said Zare,
"but, you know, you do people a favor."

His lab had been working with NASA on analyzing some dust
particles from space, he says, and NASA was impressed with his
scientists' ability to precisely measure small quantities of
things.

Zare's laser-based analytical contraption detected, among other
things, chemicals called polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons,
abbreviated PAHs. Sometimes found in charred food and smog, PAHs
are associated with living material, but they can also exist
independently.

"They got very excited," said Zare of his NASA collaborators,
who then proceeded to send him "Goofy."

That's when Zare demanded to know what was going on. He was told
he had samples of a meteorite from Mars, and that there were
some hints that it may have been the home of Martian microbes.

Zare's PAHs didn't stand up as sufficient evidence for life, but
the NASA side of the team, based at Johnson Space Center in
Houston, had found some other lines of evidence, including tiny
microscopic forms that looked like a colony of worms and oval
bacteria.

After a few months of double checking, NASA held a press
conference Aug. 7, 1996, rushed because the news was starting to
leak. "It's an unbelievable day," NASA head Daniel Goldin
announced. "Words cannot describe it."

Zare said he never intended to give the impression that his
lab's evidence for Martian bugs was conclusive. "It was a
hypothesis," he said.

But the announcement didn't quite come out that way.

"I was floored, and fascinated," said Hap McSween of the
University of Tennessee, who earlier that summer had published a
scientific paper arguing that those parts of the rock NASA
claimed harbored the fossil life were formed at blast-furnace
temperatures. His assertion, if right, would rule out the idea
of life.

McSween felt a special attachment to the 12 known Mars-borne
meteorites because he was one of the first people to suggest
some of the rocks had come from Mars.

"I got these funny looks," he said, describing when he first
floated the idea in 1979, but then tests showed that the
composition of tiny gas bubbles trapped inside the rocks matched
that of the Martian atmosphere as measured by the 1976 Viking
missions.

His fascination with the life claim gave way to skepticism, and
he has become one of the most formidable members of the no-life
camp.

To him the best explanation for the data is that the rock
contains a combination of wormlike byproducts from the coating
process plus larger wormlike crystals of magnetite, and that it
was contaminated with Earth life during the 13,000 years it sat
on the Antarctic ice.

To the scientific community, the most credible evidence that the
rock was contaminated came from chemist Timothy Jull at the
University of Colorado.

Jull used a common technique for fingerprinting
carbon-containing materials -- comparing different forms, or
isotopes, of carbon. The relative abundance of the radioactive
form of carbon, C-14, for example, can yield approximate ages.

Jull's isotope work showed that at least 80 percent of the
"organic" material thought to be left from Martian life actually
got there after ALH landed on Earth.

Jull said the other 20 percent of organic material may have
originated on Mars, but he still doesn't buy the NASA claim.
"The litmus test in science is when someone else comes along and
gets the same result," he says. "No one has come along and
verified the whole thing."

Sears, of the University of Arkansas, is less diplomatic.

"The paper is rubbish," he says of the life claim. "It was known
to be rubbish at the time it was published, but it was jumped on
by the NASA administrator."

As part of a scientific team that prepares meteorites found in
Antarctica for study, Sears says, he knows that "they are not
just a little contaminated, they are absolutely filthy -- filthy
with every possible sort of organic crap."

The scientific community would have shot down the life-on-Mars
idea earlier, argues Sears, had so many people not benefited
from publicity surrounding the claim. It helped inject glamour
and money into planetary science and meteorite studies. NASA
funded a new "astrobiology" program to investigate life in the
universe, and gave out grants to further study ALH.

One grant went to John Bradley, a materials scientist at
Georgia-based consulting company MVA Inc., who became the first
to report that the coating process used by NASA creates the
illusion of worms and bugs.

Many scientists have said they won't know whether Mars had life
until a mission goes there and brings back samples, as NASA
plans to do, using robots, in 2005. Bradley warns that this
exercise could result in the same vexing inconclusiveness seen
with ALH. "We have 12 Mars rocks already," he says, "and none of
them show any signs of life."

But the rocks collected from Mars are not likely to be similar
to ALH. Its age of 4.5 billion years far exceeds that of the
vast majority of rocks on Mars. "It's a really unique rock,"
says Ralph Harvey, a planetary scientist from Case Western
Reserve University. "It's one of the oldest rocks, it came from
the deeper part of the Martian crust."

The rock tells a story of the history of Mars, but the way
Harvey reads it, there was no chapter with life.

NASA's David McKay, who headed the team making the life claim,
stands his ground. When Bradley presented his paper suggesting
McKay had inadvertently produced the Mars bugs with the coating
process, "we got a little anxious," McKay said. But when they
figured out how to look at pieces of the rock without using the
coating technique, they still saw some forms that appear to be
real.

Zare is still on the pro-life side, but he sometimes worries
about new evidence that the Antarctic snow where the rock was
found is not as sterile as long thought. "Could Antarctic
microbes have crawled into this rock?" he asks.

The wormy structures and other parts of the life arguments made
by NASA scientists lie outside his expertise. On those things,
Zare says, "I have to trust them."

"There are times I rue the day they sent us those rocks," he
says, though he does see a bright side. The rock turned
attention to space as a place to do science, he says, rather
than simply to "put man into space or beat someone else or
demonstrate engineering prowess."

Even McSween, who worked on the Pathfinder project, sees an
upside.

"Their paper turned out to be important for the space program,"
he says, and the Mars program in particular. "It could be said
to the public that now there's a reason to go."


=A91998 Philadelphia Newspapers Inc.






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   Jul > Jul 8

                            Chat with Mike Coyle

From: Angela Shilling <ashill@skipnet.com>
Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 20:16:58 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 08:32:11 -0400
Subject: Chat with Mike Coyle

Mike Coyle has agreed to a meeting on #Visitations and will
be available to answer your questions.

Saturday, July 11th
7pm Pacific / 9pm Central / 10 pm Eastern / 3am GMT

Where: #Visitations on the Undernet

How to Get to IRC: http://www.skipnet.com/~visitations/

MindNet Journal: http://www.mk.net/~mcf/mind_net/mnindex.htm

Mike Coyle, San Francisco Bay Area resident and former
editor/publisher of the MindNet Journal, has been researching
mind-control history, methods and technology since the 1980's. He
has worked with many of the most prominent authors in the field
including

Walter Bowart (Operation Mind Control)
Martin Cannon (The Controllers)
Julianne McKinney (Microwave Harassment and Mind-Control Experimentation)
Alex Constantine (Psychic Dictatorship in the USA).

While developing firsthand military and intelligence sources, as
well as examining numerous personal claims of mind-control
activities, he has interviewed many experts in related scientific
fields such as Dr. Michael Persinger, Dr. Cory Hammond,
Dr. Elizabeth Rauscher, William van Bise, Dr. Bennett Braun and
Dr. Colin Ross, among others.

---------------------------------------------------------------

UNDERNET SERVERS:

USA Servers:

LasVegas.NV.US.Undernet.org
RockHill.SC.US.Undernet.Org
washington.dc.us.undernet.org
StLouis.MO.US.UnderNet.org
SaltLake.UT.US.UnderNet.Org
McLean.VA.us.undernet.org
Baltimore.MD.US.Undernet.Org
NewYork.NY.US.Undernet.Org
SanDiego.CA.US.Undernet.org
dallas.tx.us.undernet.org
BayCity.MI.US.Undernet.Org
Arlington.VA.US.Undernet.Org
atlanta.ga.us.undernet.org
NewBrunswick.NJ.US.Undernet.Org

European Servers:

London.UK.eu.Undernet.org
Goettingen.DE.EU.undernet.org
Bari.it.eu.undernet.org
Regensburg.DE.EU.undernet.org
Caen.Fr.Eu.UnderNet.org
Oslo1.NO.EU.Undernet.org
Antwerpen.Be.Eu.Undernet.org

Other Servers:

auckland.nz.undernet.org
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   Jul > Jul 8

                      Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

From: RobIrving@aol.com
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:01:58 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 08:29:43 -0400
Subject: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

> To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'
>Date: Tue, 07 Jul 98 09:23:03 PDT

Jerry,

>Rob, I confess that I don't understand much of the above.

Let me explain. Earlier you informed us that "Festinger's ideas
about cognitive dissonance have been pretty well challenged in
the sociology of religion literature". I assumed from this that
you were familiar with his ideas on cognitive dissonance. It's a
fair assumption, I feel, because you were responding to my
reference to Festinger's Theory of Cognitive Dissonance.

Evidently you are not familiar with it at all, and seem to
believe that his earlier co-authored study 'When Prophesy Fails'
is the theory. In fact it was merely a derivative of it,
relating to what happens when those investing in prophesy are
confronted by its disconfirmation, and whether proselytism can
be expected to increase as a direct result. This has precisely
nothing to do with my original point.

Before everyone accepted your claim that Festinger's theory -
which I believe in the main is quite relevant to this
discussion, and to ufology in general - had been successfully
challenged, and therefore easily dismissed, I thought that it
was important to establish that you were misinforming us.

As I told you, it would be strange were sociologists of religion
to challenge the theory as so little of it has to do with
religion - rather like an ETHer issuing forth on BVM sightings.

You with me? Do you understand why I needed to clarify that
before I answered your question?  You challenged me to look for
an error that you say undermines a theory you are clearly
unfamiliar with.

>I was simply pointing out that Festinger has been challenged
>and that key ideas expressed in 'When Prophecy Fails' have
>failed of replication.

And I reiterate that I would like to see the papers to that
effect. I've emailed you my 'snail' address for you to send them
to me.

Aside from all this I'm wary of your dismissal anyway. Popper
has been "pretty well challenged" by sociologists of science, as
have all other philosophers of science at some time... So? Your
dismissal suggests there is no value to be found in WPF.

Debunkers are often accused of 'throwing the baby out with the
bathwater' but aren't you doing just that? Just as parallels can
be found in ufology to Festinger's theory of CD, they can be
found to WPF. Jim Deardoff's reaction to Bruce Macabee's latest
comments on the Mexico City come to mind, no? Or the reaction of
die-hards to NASA's 'disconfirmation' of the 'Face on Mars'.
I've noticed increased proselytising on their part. If we are to
believe all we currently read, fresh structures are popping up
all over the place.

>I also noted, and you have failed to refute, a huge historical
>error, which unfortunately Festinger used to buttress a key
>argument.

Jeez, Jerry... I told you I needed to read the book again, and I
have been. And you didn't ask me to refute the error, but just
identify it. Obviously if I didn't agree it was an error I
wouldn't be able to identify it.

I've re-read the first section which discusses earlier examples,
and I'm assuming the error lies there - if it's further on, into
their observations on the Martin/Keech group, you're right, I
wouldn't know what to look for, not having studied them. So, if
this error lies beyond page 32 I'm screwed.

Nor am I an expert on any secret histories of the Sabbatai or
the Millerite movement. My best guess is that you're referring
to the authors' inclusion of immediate events post-Crucifixion.
I admit I can't quite see the point of this, as it doesn't have
much bearing on the five conditions "under which (the authors)
would expect to observe increased fervour following the
disconfirmation of a belief". From what I remember of Sunday
school Christ's troupe were pretty pissed off about it, and even
(doubting Thomas, my favourite) rather sceptical. I personally
have my doubts that the ancient prophesies precluded suffering
on their Messiah's part, but then I'm no Biblical scholar
either.

On the other hand, Festinger, et al., discuss all this openly, so I
have the feeling I'm about to be proved wrong. Funny, I had the
feeling all along whatever my answer. I'm excitedly anticipating
your enlightenment.

>You were using Festinger, I couldn't help noticing, as some
kind >of all-knowing authority figure who proved his virtue by
bashing >people interested in UFOs, and you figured you could
use him to >accomplish yet more bashing.

That's a pretty simplistic, overly-defensive view. As I said,
these ideas are peculiarly relevant to ufology. Other than an
erroneous, out-of-hand dismissal you haven't told us why you
disagree with my original point.

>I got the clear impression,
>moreover, that you or he or both of you were not bothering to
>draw any distinction between, say, Dorothy Martin and James
>McDonald, Dorothy Martin and Walter Webb, or whatever. If that
>is the case, I find it pointless to discuss the matter, since  the
>argument is flawed from the first and, may I add, dishonest.

It's a mistaken impression Jerry. No-one is suggesting that
sensible ufologists channel _all_ their information from the
planet Clarion.

Rob







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   Jul > Jul 8

                        Re: 'Eliptical' Crop Circles

From: RobIrving@aol.com
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:32:13 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 08:34:41 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Eliptical' Crop Circles


>From: "Leanne Martin" <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Eliptical' Crop Circles
>Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 16:51:38 PDT

Hi Leanne,

>Thanx for the reply. Unfortunately no, I have no idea as to
>where Filer's File refrs.

More Chinese whispers.

>I'm surprised by the lack of general interest on this issue
>given the downstream implications (political & miltary) if my
>thoughts on this particular use of orbiting technology pan out.
>If such beams can be very finely targeted and made to track
>mobile targets, and without too much atmospheric attenuation,
>the implications are enormous.

It's certainly an intriguing theory. In my opinion, the best
overview (in article form) of the subject is Monty Keen's in The
Anomalist 3, later revised in Brookesmith & Devereux's 'UFOs and
Ufology'.

Unfortunately there's no mention of orbiting etch-a-sketches
tho'.

I know Jacques Vallee was postulating similar ideas at one
point, about four years ago as I recall.

Rob






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                            Re: Mexico City Fake

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 02:43:19 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 09:10:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico City Fake


>Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 20:30:21 -0500 (CDT)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mexico City Fake

>>Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 14:41:11 -0700 (PDT)
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mexico City "Fake"

><snip>

>>A related phenomenon is the relative motion of the implant behind
>>the ear of Whitley.  It knew just when and how far to move to
>>escape the scalpel, and its motion had to overcome the opposing
>>force of friction, just as tiny imposed motions of the video
>>camera would have had to overcome, or somehow negate, the
>>camera's inertia.

>>This solution has the advantage of not ignoring the supportive
>>witness testimony, and acknowledging the relevance of your study
>>correlating the UFO's brightness with its distance.

>>Jim Deardorff

Dennis writes:

>Jim,

>Your "solution" also has the advantage of being ad hoc, post
>facto, and totally gratuitous, not to mention mere wishful
>thinking. Just can't give up on a case, can you, even when the
>evidence for a hoax stares you in the face.

Geez Dennis, if I can pull your fangs and talons out of Jim's
throat for a moment, what "evidence" for a hoax are you talking
about?

All Bruce or Jeff have said is that Sanio has found what he
'thinks' is evidence of a hoax. I never got the impression from
-anything- that has been presented that anything -conclusive-
has been proferred! There may be -strong indications- or 'reason
to suspect, but nothing -conclusive.-

>Just more clever
>manipulation (or introduction of "confusion") by the ubiquitous,
>omniscient, omnipotent aliens. Next thing you know, they'll be
>photographing themselves on peoples' camcorders without the
>latter being turned on, maybe even without a cassette in the
>chamber -- just to confound the skeptics, I suppose. After all,
>they can do anything, right? Were they jumping up and down to a
>different beat for everyone else who might have been
>photographing them at the same time, or did they just dictate
>that they would be filmed by only one person in Mexico City (with
>a population of about 14 million or so) at a time?

Ya know, I was gonna include in my original post the possibility
that the propulsion system of the craft (if it is a powerful
'magnetic field generating' system of some kind) might account
for differences in the appearance of the immediate edges of the
object as opposed to other objects in the cameras field of view
that were not generating such intense magnetic fields. I left it
out because there's just no way to know what kind of propulsion
system is being used and I felt it was a purely speculative
point and one which could never be answered authoritativly
unless we capture a UFO and reverse engineer the thing! I opted
to keep my questions to Bruce centered around evidence of
tampering and the possibility that the optics themselves may
have been responsible for what Jeff was seeing.

Jim's only 'crime' was in asking questions that took into
account the ETs themselves. No reason to drag the guy over
broken glass for it. Your arguement would be stronger if you
addressed Jims' points with logical and well thought out answers
rather than simply letting him have it with both barrels!

>You're a real piece of work, Jim. Ever thought about having
>yourself checked for an implant -- or a brain transplant?

No Sasquatch, _you're_ a real piece of work! Jim is just an
honest guy asking (what he believes to be) honest questions.
I've never seen him comport himself in a manner that would
warrant the kind of attack that you have launched. If it was me
you were chewing on however..... well that's a different story.
I've been a bad boy! <EG> Not Jim though, he just doesn't
deserve it.

>Dark Cloud

Yeah! Lately for some reason. I hope all is well with you and
your's Sasquatch. Your posts have been sounding a little ragged
around the edges lately. Not up to your usual standards!

Peace,

John Velez





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                    Re: CSICOP Responds to SSE UFO Report

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 00:03:35 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 08:40:23 -0400
Subject: Re: CSICOP Responds to SSE UFO Report


>Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 17:04:01 -0500 (CDT)
>From: Geoff G. Dittman <umdittm0@cc.UManitoba.CA>>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: CCSICOP Responds to SSE UFO Report

>"Why is this news? The observation that some things sighted in
>the sky are unknown and merit further investigation is not a new
>revelation. We are committed to an open-minded and inquiry into
>any responsible paranormal claims. CSICOP has encouraged UFO
>research for more than two decades, and has published the
>results of rigorous UFO investigations. Some cases do remain
>unexplained. But that we should now devote government resources
>to further research is questionable. In our view, the government
>should not divert funds and time from other more fruitful
>scientific projects. Given limited resources for scientific
>research, the evidence to date regarding UFOs does not merit
>such strong attention. The idea that we should devote the
>business of the United States Congress to hearings on UFOs
>borders on the ridiculous.>

>"The release of the report appears well-timed to gain publicity
>for the SSE and their claims. It occurs a week after the
release >of the X-Files movie and during the week of Fourth of
July when >news is slow."

WAY TO GO CSICOP.......but don't worry guys, there won't be any
wasted government money. ANd occurring a week after the X files
movie is poor timing. They should have released the SSE report
ust before the X-files movie. And, of course, the CSICOP
response comes the week after July 4, when there isn't much
news..

>Philip J. Klass
>CSICOP fellow, Senior Editor with Aviation Week and Space
>Technology magazine, leading UFO investigator and author.>

>The SSE recommends the creation of government funded UFO
>research projects like the one called GEPAN (Groupe D'Etudes des
>Phenomenes Aerospatiaux Non-identifies), created in 1977 by
>France which reported to the highly respected French space
>agency - CNES. In 1988, after more than a decade of UFO
>investigations, GEPAN's budget was drastically reduced, its
>mission was refocused to emphasize collecting reports of
>reentering satellite debris and meteorites, and its name was
>changed to SEPRA (Service d' Expertise desPhenomenes des
>Rentrees Atmospheriques).

>"During GEPAN's 11-year research effort, its most impressive UFO
>.case involved a peasant living in Trans-en-Provence who claimed
>a strange craft hovered over his yard in broad daylight. GEPAN
>strongly endorsed the caseb ased on its investigation into
>alleged UFO-caused effects on nearby plants,which GEPAN/SEPRA
>director Jean-Jacques Velasco described to the SSE's panel of
>experts. Velasco did not inform the SSE panel of scientists that
>a recent investigation by a pro-UFO French investigator - Eric
>Maillot - indicates that the Trans-en-Provence case is a hoax.

>"It is unfortunate that the SSE did not assemble a more balanced
>roster of UFO investigators to present evidence to the panel of
>scientists. The whole evaluation process appears suspiciously
>weighted to one side of the UFO debate."

WAY TO GO PHIL. I'm sure CSICOP can hold their own panel and
provide a more unbiased balance. And I wonder, just what was
proven about the Tans-en-Provence "hoax,"





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                    Beckjord on Sturrock & Von Eschleman

From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 98 01:23:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 09:06:58 -0400
Subject: Beckjord on Sturrock & Von Eschleman


Subject:   High Strangeness with the SSE UFO Report
Sent:    7/7/98 9:57 PM
From:    Curator, ufobfmuseum@value.net
To: ufobfmuseum@value.net

________________________________________________________________


To the UFO INSIDERS:

I had a very weird experience - I  called Dr. Von Eschleman, who
wrote many of the sections of the SSE UFO Report (SUR) and
invited him to consider other evidence not presented for a
future follow up.

He was astounded to hear about Pat Parinello, the implants, and
even more to find that I had seen the implants being removed
from a hair's length away (as cameraman). He was disturbed to
learn that the "dome" on the Vancover Island UFO was actally the
head of an alien pilot (Trupilot of a Trufo) even though Dr.
Haines does not like to deal with it. (The VIUFO was in the
SUR). I tried to get him turned on to go further, with a new
report, but he started to get uncomfortable, mentioning other
research to do, (he's retired) and when I told him of the
hundreds, even thousands of witnesses and photographers, even
abductees and implantees out there (I offered to have him call
Pat) and mentioned my own sightings, he started to withdraw,
crablike, and started debating the terminology in the words
"UFO".

I gradually learned that he was not even convinced by his own
report!

This guy wants a dead saucer placed in his own front yard.
Ultimately, faced with new info, he just faded away, and hung
up.....

High strangeness........In Palo-Alto-land......

Whew!

Erik Beckjord






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   Jul > Jul 8

                     Cooper - Maccabee Adds To The Story

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 00:03:50 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 08:50:25 -0400
Subject: Cooper - Maccabee Adds To The Story


>Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 13:05:54 -0700
>From: Don Ecker <decker@ufomag.com>
>To: Errol Bruce-Knapp <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: William Cooper Taking On Authorities

>Many of you that have been in the UFO field for along time will
>know who Milton Wm. "Bill" Cooper is. If this name is not
>familar to you as far as UFOs are concerned, 10 years ago Cooper
>was all the "rage" on the UFO circut. In 1990 I completed a
>several part expose on Cooper in the pages of UFO Magazine. I
>will upload them here in future messages..

>During the time frame of about 1988 until about 1991 and 1992
>Cooper was still making the airwaves and lectures claiming that
>the U.S. Government was in league with evil aliens to enslave
>humanity, then it changed to the One World Government, then to
>the One World Government (with no aliens) would fool the world
>with a fake alien invasion. All the while screaming that the JFK
>assassination was carried out by JFK's Secret Service driver
>Bill Greer. You see, Cooper claimed that he had been on a U.S.
>Navy Briefing team in the Pacific Area of Operations, and was
>privy to these facts from either being present when the above
>items were discussed, or from reading the information from
>documents Cooper claimed he covertly stole and photocopied.>.

>When Cooper burned all his bridges in the UFO areana, (if you
>ever disagreed with him or called him on his "facts" you were
>either called an agent of the secret government or perhaps
>assaulted by him physically or had your car tires slashed, or
>were subjected to a barrage of vile and abusive telephone calls.
>All of which are on various public records in a number of police
>departs.)>

>At anyrate, Cooper left UFOs and entered the wonderful world of
>armed civilian militia's. The following is the latest..

>Over the next several days I will upload the Cooper files and
>you can take a fun-filled trip into the last 10 years of UFOs!..


(The following written from memory without taking the time to
look up notes)

I investigated Cooper for a short (that was all I needed!) time
in early 1988 after he had posted stuff on the Internet and was
becoming known in UFO circles. I talked to him on the phone and
got his basic story of being in the Navy and (somehow) having
been selected to be on the briefing team for CINCPAC (Commander
In Chief of the Pacific Fleet). Yeah, right! was my response.

But let m back up. Cooper claimed a UFO sighting while on a
submarine (surfaced!) on a trip from Honolulu to San Francisco.
He gave the name of the submarine, but he could recall only one
person on it, a guy by the name of Ball, who was another on-deck
witness, as I recall. Strange that he couldn't recall the
commanding officer. Anyway, I looked up the submarine and, sure
enough, there it was, on a trip between Honolulu and San
Franscisco at the time Cooper said. There was not a complete
list of the crew, but one of the officers was a guy named Ball!
So it checked out partly.

Anyway, some time (year?) after that trip was when Cooper was on
this supposed briefing team for CINCPAC and one day was asked to
brief the Chief on material found in a big report on UFOs. He
prepared his briefing and copied the report which, of course,
was Top Secret. He told his roommate or a friend (to whom I also
talked; can't recall his name now). Cooper kept his copy at his
house. Subsequently his house burned down and the report burned
with it. Nevertheless, roughly 10 years later Cooper was able to
publish on the Internet the exact wording of many sections of
that report. I asked him how he was able to do this. He said
that he had memorized the report before it had burned and that
periodically he would write out the report word for word. By
that means he had succeeded in remembering it perfectly.

Now a little history: in the spring of 1987 the MJ-12 documents
were dumped on an unsuspecting public by Timothy Goode in
England and then Bill Moore and Jaime Shandara in the United
States. There was the Eisenhower Briefing Document and the
Aquarius document and several others as I recall. These
circulated around the UO community as people wondered whether or
not they were real and various people (myself included) tried to
check up on them.

Now back to Cooper.

He had posted on the Internet a collection of documents which
were.... get this... identical, word for word with what Moore
had been circulating. And then, to top it off, Cooper had the
guts/stupidity to claim vociferously that Moore's documents were
fake while his were real.

Yeah, Iwas stunned. Here I was reading Cooper's version of the
document I just got off the Internet and it is word for word what
Moore had circulated 8 months before, and I'm listening to
Cooper swear that Moore's documents were fake!

Well, as you can imagine, I have merely watched Cooper's
activities from afar, with some amusement and some dismay.

Oh, yes, I might point out the 'Behold A Pale Horse' (which
should be titled 'Behind A Pale Horse' or some such) is Cooper's
"Mein Kampf". And I'm in there, along with most other
ufologists, as a nasty government agent out to screw Cooper and
freedom loving people all over the world. Cooper's motto...


'If you aren't for me, you're against me, and if you don't agree
100% with everything I say, you aren't for me. And since ya
don't 'gree witfrom what I c'n see, ya ain't fur me!'





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   Jul > Jul 8

                             Re: Sturrock Report

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 00:02:32 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 08:37:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Sturrock Report


>Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 13:33:05 +0100
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>From: John Rimmer <j_rimmer@library.croydon.gov.uk>
>Subject: Sturrock Report

>I am puzzled and not a little irritated by the increasingly
>triumphalist attitudes of the ETH proponents to the muted and
>entirely reasonable conclusions of the Sturrock Panel. As far as
>I can see the only difference between their conclusions and the
>Condon Report is that, unlike Condon, Sturrock feels that
>science *would* be advanced by further study of the UFO
>phenomenon. So do I.

>Why Jerry, Bruce Maccabee and the others feel that this is any
>sort of endorsement of the ETH is baffling. They say they found
>NO EVIDENCE of any extraterrestrial involvement in the cases
>they found puzzling. You really cannot be much clearer than
>this. Perhaps the real acheivemnt of Sturrock is to come up with
>a statement that both Jerry Clark, CSICOP and Magonia can agree
>with!


I don't recall saying or implying that the SSE panel result was
an "endorsement" of te ETH. I have said that my initial response
ranged from surprise/shock to anger to disappointment to learn
from the complete report in JSE that we haven't learned anything
since the Condon study. In particular, we haven't accumulated
enough data or analysis to convince a panel of scientists that
any UFO case is related to somethig unknown, to say nothing of
being evidence of ETH. I found myself asking "could I have done
better." After reading the report I concluded I probably
couldn't have done better in the face of such skepticism. I was
ready to write a very "depressed" letter to JSE. THen the media
reaction set. The media picked up on th idea that a scientific
panel said UFOs were worthy of study. This is a "nuance" that is
indeed opposite to what Condon wrote. From that point of view,
then, the SSE report is a "media coup" and it has forced CSICOP
to come forward with its wet blanket approach.

But, anyway, in relation to Rimmer's message, it is obvious that
the ETH profits by this only by virtue of the fact that the
panel said..."hey, go ahead and study with our blessing." From
that point of view the PSH also benefited from the panel.





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                         Re: Sturrock Panel/skeptics

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 00:03:57 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 08:53:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Sturrock Panel/skeptics


>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Sturrock Panel/skeptics
>Date: Mon, 06 Jul 98 10:20:24 PDT

>The shape of the debunker response to the Sturrock panel is
>already becoming clear.  Like the New York Post, a nearly
>hysterical editorial in the current issue of New Scientist links
>the SSE with all sorts of other heresies and condemns UFOs as
>evidence of mass ... well, fill in your nasty noun here.
>Basically, the thought police are determined that nobody, least
>of all a scientist, is going to get by with acknowledging the
>obvious: that the best UFO reports continue to resist explanation
>and maybe, just maybe, deserve scientific attention.  Such is the
>heresy that menaces civilization.

Ad hominem attack...... without giving names in the article (so
people who read the paper version won't know) they refer to
members of SSE such as a "perptual motion machine" guy and to a
guy who moves things mentally.

(Web readers will find a link to Harold Puthoff's web site
and another link to the Robert Jahn at the Princeton Engineering
Anomalies Research (PEAR) site.).

If you can't attack the message attack the messenger(s).





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   Jul > Jul 8

                  Re: Why Did The Ufologist Cross The Road?

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 21:19:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 17:33:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Why Did The Ufologist Cross The Road?


-Originally posted by Joel Carpenter on the Project 1947 list.
 Impossible to resist reposting it here!-

Q: Why did the ufologist cross the road?

A: It's abundantly clear that you didn't read my previous post.
If you had, you would have read the following:

> I wasn't implying that you _had_ crossed the road, or that you
were advocating that anyone else _should_ cross the road. I was
simply asking why some people are so anxious to _encourage_ the
crossing of the road in the first place.

Please do not attribute false motives to me. And it wasn't a
road anyway.

I must question why this whole topic of road-crossing generates
such heated emotions. Could it perhaps be because it threatens
certain of your deeply-felt beliefs concerning your actual
location? Are you perhaps worried that if someone else crossed
the road first that your position would be more exposed?

And what about this statement?

>> I even question the sincerity of those who believe that the
road is crossable.

Don't be so jejune. If you were half as familiar with the
literature of road-crossing as you claim to be, you wouldn't
make statements like that. Many researchers who have been in
this field for decades have compiled abundant evidence that the
road has been crossed over and over again. Or are you possibly
ready to turn the whole affair over to the skeptics who say that
there is no road to cross? Like Bob Todd, perhaps?


b-aaaaaakk-baak-baak. cluck.






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   Jul > Jul 8

                       New Book - 'Managing Martians'

From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net>
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 10:04:58 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 17:36:40 -0400
Subject: New Book - 'Managing Martians'

CNN Morning News, Wednesday, July 8, 1998

Author Donna Shirley has written a book called 'Managing
Martians' with respect to the JPL Mars Exploration Program,
Sojourner, Pathfinder, etc.........

She stated on CNN this morning that by late 1999 there will be 4
Missions to Mars, including Japan.

In 2005 a mission will have sophisticated equipment that will
selectively pick samples to bring back to Earth. Unfortunately
we won't have samples back until 2008, three years after they're
picked up for delivery to Earth.

She also stated the book is also written for young women to
encourage them to get involved in the study of Space.

Sue






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                      Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 21:48:30 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 17:34:36 -0400
Subject: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'


> From: RobIrving@aol.com
> Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 16:04:00 EDT
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

> I would be alarmed if no-one were looking at whatever evidence
> exists with an eye to ET as a possible cause. In that sense, I
> see the ETH as viable, just as I see the PSH as viable. My
> recoil from the ETH stems from over-exposure to those who pay
> lip-service to the word 'hypothesis' while spouting off in terms
> that proof, or *hard* evidence is an accepted given, or even
> invoking Occam's Razor in a vain 'scientific' attempt to justify
> it.

Earlier, in the midst of another exchange, Rob made the same
charge about the use of Occam's Razor, but with my name attached.
I ignored it. What, I asked myself, is the point of arguing with
anyone who doesn't even know what you've said?

But now that he's made the same damn point again, let me briefly
reply. After all, I was the one who wrote the original Occam's
post. I never said that Occam's Razor  could be used to justify
the ETH. That would have been ridiculous. My post was about
skeptics using it to justify their beliefs, which some of them
do, and which in my view is equally ridiculous.

I'd be curious to know if there's even one other person here --
preferably someone who hasn't taken part in this debate -- who
thinks I said what Rob thinks I said. And if there is, would he
or she support that belief with a quote from something I wrote?

Greg Sandow







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                            Alfred's Odd Ode #254

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 09:18:58 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 17:39:15 -0400
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #254

Apology to MW #254 (For July 8, 1998)

The conundrum that we face is like a boil, or a pustule, and the
cause of it's neglect we should decry. Those that push _away_
the truth to prove their profit motive we should vilify --
respectfully, despise.

The pustule skin is very near to breaking -- don't you think?
The skin of it is hot and tight and dry. Any little touch could
have it blow up in our face, but I'd like to clean it out -- at
least, I'd think that we should try. . .

I stood alone with many, there were twenty five or so -- on a
Sunday evening flying model planes. Some were gas, but few were
flying, and were muffled when they were, it was rubber models
folks would fly, for time.

Pastoral was the evening -- no alcohol or drugs, a simple breeze
was blowing; and was silent as a slug. The ladies fixed the
finger food while the old men flew their dreams; the sky a blue
and crystal clear so sharp it leaps and gleams.

I see it 'cause I'm looking, but I do not jump or shout -- I
nudge my nephew Mason, "Hey there, Mace . . . what's that
about"? He looks, his mouth falls open, and he nudges at his
Mom, who gets right up, and takes a step, to see it closer, Tom
<g>.

It's flying slow, too slow my guess, to be a jet or plane. It
floats along, majestically, bewitching watching brains. Like a
BB held at arms length, but make it flat -- bright white. It
coasted by cigar like, and then drifted out of sight!

There was general amazement. There was "what the hell was that"?
No one mentioned UFOs, and I was silent as a cat. Someone filled
in -- "Aircraft"! Other's offered "Blimp." I soto-voiced to
Mason, "That's facetious, scared, and limp."

The *thing* flew by again, my friend, for the second time of
FIVE, and fewer people watched it -- it is that I now confide.
The third time fewer _still_ looked up to wonder what it was;
the forth was even less than that -- the fifth, just me, because
<g>.

Call them up and ask opinions of the ones that would not look. I
doubt that they'd remember, for their peace of mind it took. It
reminded them that models are contrived to paint our sky with
*things* WE built to fly up there -- not the ET's I surmise. The
craft that flew that fateful day they did not glue together.
They didn't sand the fuselage, or build it, strong as leather.
They did not spin the prop they'd bought with what they could
control; they could not point out proudly _their_ invention
they'd extol.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

June 28, 18:00 on a sanctioned model airplane flying field
outside of Anderson, California. A collection of professional
people, and a few scientists <g>, put wonder behind them, and
fixed their attentions on their own comforting, and  familiar
contrivances. They had forgotten that the simple model planes
they held in their trembling hands would be perceived as a
similar magic not all that far into their own _recent_ past.

Maybe Tommy Lee Jones was dead on right. In conversation to Will
Smith, an aside to one another in MIB, he said, "They don't
_want_ to know." Even if "K" crapped out to traditional
sensibility. Zed and Jay didn't mind knowing -- WANTED to know!
I want to know. I know of others who say they want to know . . .
finally, YOU will want to know.

Restore John Ford!

--
Explore the Alien View? <Updated 6 July>

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake.






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                    Rantings from the Edge - Bill Cooper

From: Don Ecker <decker@ufomag.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 07:42:15 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 19:23:38 -0400
Subject: Rantings from the Edge - Bill Cooper

This little Op Ed piece was written by me one evening after
reading a piece from the Omega New Age Directory.

MICHAEL and AURORA El-Legion wrote columns for the Omega New Age
Directory. The timeframe is about March, 1991. The El-Legions
were a couple of New Age flim flam artists out of Sedona, Az.
This was about the height of the Bill Cooper hysteria.

Anyhow....I put on my sardonic face, with tongue planted firmly
in cheek...and let go.....

Don Ecker
UFO Magazine
www.ufomagazine.com

*****************************************************

From 1991

Rantings From the Edge;

Don Ecker

I am a child of the '60s. I remember very well the day Jack Kennedy
was shot, saw both Bob Kennedy and Martin Luther King in Arlington
Cemetery in 1965. I can remember seeing the Beatles on Ed Sullivan
when they first came to the states in 1964. I liked the `Doors',
Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, and even Harry Chapin. I survived the
dawning of the `Age of Aquarius', went to Viet Nam, came home and
waited for the Nam to wear off.

I never experimented with psychedelics--I never dropped acid, and
if I felt the need to take a trip, I found a willing girl of like
mind, ingested a quart of tequila, and tripped. After Nam I doubted
the reality of God, then I heard about Watergate and doubted the
reality of my government. When the channeling craze started, I
looked at it and figured that it was just a re-hash of the
spiritualism from the last century, and decided that if someone
wanted me to channel, I would buy cable, it was probably cheaper.
I do not eat curds, bark at the moon or listen to much that comes
from Sedona, Arizona. However . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

In the UFO field, some trash, similar to something - oh, say
like herpes--ends up being the gift that keeps on giving. . . .
. . Several issues of UFO ago, I started the `Whistleblower'
series, and examined Milton "Bill" Cooper. Unlike many folks who
Cooper has dazzled, I and a few other old timers from ParaNet
`knew' Cooper since he first hit the `airwaves' here on ParaNet
back in 1988. Cooper's story kept changing like the weather in
Denver, and after a not too-long period of time, the old
Administrator, Jim Speiser, had enough of Milty and gave him the
boot.

Cooper's brand of paranoia encompasses the `dark side' of ufology,
claiming to have seen documents way back when. . . . ol' Milt was
in Navy Intelligence. Seems like, according to Milty, the little
grey critters, ( or was it green? ) were responsible for everything
from drugs in the USA, to high oil prices, the murder of a
president, Bill Moore, the CIA, and I guess by extension, maybe
even me and UFO Magazine. You see, even though Cooper had not one
shred of any type of evidence whatsoever for anything he raved
about, you either had to take him at his word, or like me, were an
agent of the imperial government, the CIA, or were just flat-out a
Communist!!

Now, on to New Age. If there was ever a contradiction in ideas,
Cooper's brand of UFOlogy had meant the New Age * * * and they
loved him in Sedona. Now I always figured that the New Agers
were into peace, love, light, brussel sprouts, chanting things
like "Free Huey", singing old Dylan songs, and listening to what
Baba Ram had to say. Space Brothers were here to save us from
us, and crystals are good. Well . . . . . .

A couple of Sedona gurus named Michael and Aurora El-Legion, who
are into the Ashtray Command, Semi and Full-ase (from the
Pleiades) Crystal Power Demonstrations, New Age Diets, and
Intergalactic Tours, (all out of Sedona, by the way)
discovered Cooper and really got p.o.ed by the two-part Cooper
expose. As it happens, they also do a column for the Omega New
Age Directory. The content of their column for February was
inflammatory, to say the least. The editor of this paper called
UFO and interviewed editor Vicki Cooper for their 2/91 issue.
that follows this little ranting. What is really interesting,
however, is how they arrive at the conclusion that UFO Mag is a
CIA front, ( according to the El- Legions "they have their
reasons," but none are offered ) and that Milty Cooper is
honest, upright, red-blooded and all-American. They are also
shocked that James Bo Gritz, the former Green Beret Lt. Col.
sent a letter to UFO complaining about Milt Cooper, and assume
he must have been pressured by the CIA to make these unfounded
accusations. At any rate. . . . .

Maybe they should stick to 'Telepathic Channeled messages for the
audience', or `Channeled Readings for the Star People'--all paid-
for advertising blurbs, by the way, for the El-Legions out of the
Omega New Age Directory--and leave the UFO investigations to other
people more qualified.

For your reading enjoyment....

**************

El-Legions take sides in UFO ROW

In their column UFO Updatethis month, Michael and Aurora
El-Legion bring up the controversy that exists between UFO
researcher William Cooper and UFO Magazine.

Cooper has brought tonational attention a number of formerly Top
Secret documents that indicate that the government is involved
in some sort of cover-up concerning UFOs and Aliens.

UFO Magazine is a nationally recognized UFO publication that has
always been seen by other publishers as moderate and objective
in its reporting.

Recently, Cooper has taken objection to some of the reports
appearing in the magazine concerning him. He has made statements
accusing it of being a tool of the CIA.

In their column the El-Legions have expressed Cooper's views
about UFO Magazine, that it was "set up by the CIA to keep tabs
on what is going on in the UFO movement and to create confusion
through misinformation"'

Vickie Cooper (no relation) editor of UFO Magazine, was
contacted by the Omega New Age Directory. She agrees that
disinformation is a tactic used by intelligence agencies to
discredit the UFO movement, but says that is William Cooper who
is causing the harm.

"Anyonewho pays close attention to the information issuing from
individuals such as WilliamCooper." says Vickie Cooper, "will
see clearly that he is doing what he accuses UFO Magazine of
doing, which is to mix pertinent information with complete,
unabashed lies.

"What that does is effectively dilute not only the information
people should be paying attention to, but effectively discounts
all of UFOlogy and the UFO subject in the eyes of the general
public. This is an effective tactic of disinformation that has
been used by a number of paid experts in the intelligence and
counter-intel- ligence Community according to many fine
journalists who have tried to expose the secret government."

In their column, the El-Legions also address a letter written to
UFO Magazine by Bo Gritz.Criticizing William Cooper. They find
it surprising and wonder if Gritz was pressured into writing it.

Vickie Cooper agrees with Gritz's criticism when he said of
William Cooper, "He's hurting the credibility' and honestly of
sincere researchers at a time when we are facing a true peril
from within."

Further, says Ms. Cooper, "If Michael and Aurora El-Legion and
others who claim to do good work in theUFO field cannot see and
act on the truth of that, they are only adding to the problem."

I wouldn't expect Vickie Cooper to say anything else," commented
Aurora El-Legion. "Of course, she supports the position of her
magazine."'

The El-Legions steadfastly maintain that, despite reports and
rumors undermining either side in this issue, they remain among
the many who supportWilliam Cooper, "I think Cooper is honest
and for real, a man of high integrity," says Aurora El-Legion.
"If I ever see anything that proves otherwise, I will change my
opinion."

The El-Legions feel that Ms. Cooper is not competent to speak on
the subject ofUFOs because she had no background in UFO research
before she began publishing UFO Magazine.

Supporters of UFO Magazine claim that because she had no
background in research, she was not committed to one position or
another, and is thus a very impartial publisher.

 -The End-








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                'True Abduction' - Abduction Experience Told

From: Ben Field <ben@abcfield.force9.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 10:59:29 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 00:27:15 -0400
Subject: 'True Abduction' - Abduction Experience Told

True Abductions
http://www.abcfield.force9.co.uk/abduction/index.html

I was contacted by an abductee and I found her story so
fascinating that I asked if she would write BUFOD an exclusive
report on her experience, she obliged and wrote a 9 page report
telling her story.

This is the first time she has ever spoke out and I thank her for
letting BUFOD report her story.

All the best

Ben Field
BUFOD








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                  Re: Beckjord on Sturrock & Von Eschleman

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 13:23:51 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 00:29:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Beckjord on Sturrock & Von Eschleman


> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: High Strangeness: Indeed!
> Date: Wed, 8 Jul 98 01:23:50 -0500
> From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com>

<big snip>

> This guy wants a dead saucer placed in his own front yard.
> Ultimately, faced with new info, he just faded away, and hung
> up.....

<snip>

> Erik Beckjord

<snip>

Hi Pat, Erik and UFO UpDates list members,

Unfortunately, even a saucer on the ground beside one's house
which stays around for a couple of days will not convince some
scientists to the reality of the UFO phenomena.  This was in
fact the case with a fellow climatologist I met while working
for the Federal Government (he was also a part-time professor at
York University where I now work).  This scientist and his wife
even examined this object from very close range and although his
wife was thrilled at having a UFO land on their property, the
scientist insisted she was mistaken since "there is no such
thing as UFOs". He never figured out what it was and although he
examined this strange object over two days, he still does not
believe in UFOs. It is futile to try and convince some people,
including scientists, when they strongly believe otherwise.

Peter Sturrock will finally be making a report available on his
findings with the 1957 Ubatuba, Brazil UFO explosion fragment
later this summer. Peter did mention to me (before the latest
UFO study was released) that the Magnesium present in his sample
does have different isotope ratios, something all scientists
accept would be the case if it originated from another solar
system. Of course there can be other possible explanations but I
am interested in seeing how the Mg isotope ratios for Peter's
sample compare to the Mg isotope ratios for other very different
alleged UFO samples (locations and dates) which are currently
being tested here.

One cannot rush research studies, especially when there is so
many observations and much information to consider. It is up to
us, ufologists and UFO enthusiasts, to make sure that all
important UFO observations and facts are made available to the
researchers, even if they do seem shocked and are overwhelmed by
the large quantity and high quality of the data that already
exists. We in the UFO field continue to be amazed almost daily,
so it should be no surprise when scientists are astounded too.

Nick Balaskas







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               UFO Enthusiasts Set To Converge On Alberta Town

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 02:38:02 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 01:03:39 -0400
Subject: UFO Enthusiasts Set To Converge On Alberta Town

>From the Vancouver Sun.

Stig


*******


Last updated: Wednesday 8 July 1998

NATIONAL NEWS


UFO enthusiasts set to converge on Alberta town


ST. PAUL, Alta. (CP) - The truth is out there and John Trefanenko hopes
UFO buffs, crop circle theorists and cattle mutilation investigators
look for it in St. Paul.

Trefanenko, mayor of the northern Alberta town of 5,000, believes a
conference this weekend dedicated to aliens will draw plenty of earthly
visitors.

"We feel this annual conference, besides having a bit of a
tourist-economic spinoff . . . will probably give us some answers as
well," said Trefanenko.

Stanton Friedman - a nuclear physicist who investigated the purported
crash of a spaceship near Roswell, N.M., in 1947 - is the keynote
speaker for the two-day conference starting Friday.

"I don�t expect any UFO to show up for my lectures," Friedman said at a
Wednesday news conference in Edmonton. "It would be great - that would
be real news."

Friedman expects the conference will draw the curious rather than the
kooky.

"I guess the kooks have their conferences, too, but I have been to a
lot of conferences in the last several years, partly because of
Roswell, and what it is mostly is the healthy agnostics," said
Friedman, an American who now lives in Fredericton.

"I�m not trying to reach the UFO buffs; that�s preaching to the
converted. I want to reach the world, the general public.

"You�re never going to get 100 per cent of the people to agree with
you. Five per cent of the American public doesn�t believe we�ve been to
the moon."

Other conference highlights include a controversial film of an alleged
alien autopsy, a psychologist�s session with an alien abduction victim
and a local cattle mutilation investigator who is bringing his slide
show.

"I�m quite positive it is not the coyotes and the wolves doing this,"
said Fern Belzil, who sells purebred cattle in St. Paul and has
investigated three recent deaths in the area. "Some people think it is
predators, others think it is satanic cults, but there are a few
ranchers convinced it is aliens doing this."

St. Paul, about 200 kilometres northeast of Edmonton, already has an
affection for extraterrestrials. The town built a circular UFO landing
pad as a centennial project in 1967 and made headlines in 1995 by
starting a toll-free hotline (1-888-SEE-UFOS) to record sightings of
alien craft.

"It was started as a publicity stunt, we make no bones by that,"
conference organizer Paul Pelletier said of the hotline, which is
bankrolled by an anonymous patron in Las Vegas.

"At the same time, we almost immediately started getting a tremendous
amount of calls, serious UFO reports, which kind of took us off-guard a
little.

"We quickly adapted and realized very early in the game that we were
providing a very necessary service. It was a safe place for people to
call without fear of ridicule."

About 500 earthlings are expected this weekend. The town, Pelletier
says, is ready to greet them - and believe them.

"The general public in St. Paul, as a whole, is very supportive of the
UFO conference and really feel that this is something St. Paul was
destined to do."





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                              Tunisia and UFOs

From: Sean Jones <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 20:31:25 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 00:55:13 -0400
Subject: Tunisia and UFOs


Hi Errol, Hi All

Well for those that are interested, (few that they may be :-) )
I had a wonderful time in lovely Tunisia. But this post is not
to brag about my good fortune (bout bloody time I can tell ya
:-) ) But I recall Tunisia being one of the countries mentioned
a little while ago in another post about western influence
corrupting UFO reports.

At our hotel we had an entertainment chappie who spoke and
understood English very well, so when I had the chance I nailed
him down for a quick chat.

I asked him if Tunisian's see things in the skies that arn't
planes or the moon and etc. He replied "what you mean like
lights bigger than the size of planets but thy move to fast to
be even a comet?" Yeah that sort of thing, I responded. "Yeah we
see loads of them".

It transpires that this particular chap, name of Ashref (
could'nt pronounce his last name ) was doing his national
service ( something all the twenty year old Tunisian men do for
a year) when there was a lot of sightings of lights and similer
sort of things around a new military installation that he was
stationed at.

His base commander had him call up a place in Tunis (the
capital) to ask about comets and sundry, the answer was that
there was no comets about but one of the planets might be
visible, he could'nt remember which one. Well there was no way
these lights was planet because they was moving. Nothing was
ever done about it as far as he was aware, apparently his base
commander was of the opinion if they dont bother us we wont
bother them.

Ashref was not in any way a UFO buff, he did'nt even know the
term UFO! I asked him more questions about was there any kind of
secrecy about these lights and etc and he replied that he don't
see how there could be as all Tunisians like to talk, (because
they don't have much else to do probably?  Nearly every evening
I saw many a Tunsian just sitting in a coffee shop just
chatting)

Ashref was sure that the Berbers (sp?) a nomadic tribal people
counted things as these lights as signs or portents but could'nt
say just how often they was seen in the desert.

Also Ashref did not know of any people seeing craft landed, he
did mention that a lot of things could go unseen because Tunisia
is a fairly empty desert scrubland and if any such thing was
seen it would almost certainly be ascribed to a "foreign power
invadeing our country". (The middle east is still not a "quiet"
area)

I thanked Ashref for his time and I did'nt ask him any more
questions because 1, he was a busy man and 2 because he really
was'nt all that
interested. Besides which I was on holiday :-)


btw I took Stan's Top Secret/Majic with me.

---
    In an infinite universe inifinitely anything is posible.
                       Sean Jones
 Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm
         Research page--http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/





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                          UFO*BC - Yukon Sightings

From: Bill Oliver <boliver@direct.ca>
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 20:45:10 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 08:52:27 -0400
Subject: UFO*BC - Yukon Sightings


Come and have a look at UFO reports from the land of the midnight
sun! Latest Yukon Reports at:

http://www.ufobc.org






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                       UFO TV Show - Thursday, July 9

From: David Pengilly - UFO*BC <pengilly@axionet.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 17:34:37 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 08:48:20 -0400
Subject: UFO TV Show - Thursday, July 9

A&E is airing an episode of "Unexplained" on Thursday, July 9.
Locally (PDT) the show is on at 6 PM and 10 PM.

The episode is called "Saucer Seekers" and includes segments on:

- The Cash/Landrum UFO Incident
- The Phoenix Lights
- Area 51
- Robert and Cecilia Dean

Enjoy!

Dave Pengilly,
UFO*BC






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                   Re: Cooper - Maccabee Adds To The Story

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 12:50:32 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 09:03:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Cooper - Maccabee Adds To The Story


> Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 00:03:50 -0400
> From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
> Subject: UFO UpDate: William Cooper Taking On Authorities
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> Oh, yes, I might point out the 'Behold A Pale Horse' (which
> should be titled 'Behind A Pale Horse' or some such) is Cooper's
> "Mein Kampf". And I'm in there, along with most other
> ufologists, as a nasty government agent out to screw Cooper and
> freedom loving people all over the world. Cooper's motto...

"Behold A Pale Horse" includes the full text of the Protocols of
the Elders of Zion, a vicious anti-Semitic document forged, if I
remember correctly, by the Czarist secret police. Cooper
subsequently (again if I remember correctly) said it really
wasn't about Jews, although of course it purports to be a secret
Jewish document detailing plans for various atrocities.

My own experience with Cooper is very brief. I saw him give a
talk in Los Angeles in 1988 or 1989. When he said the aliens were
responsible for gun control, the crowd burst into cheers, and I
had the distinct feeling that I'd come to the wrong place.

What was most ludicrous, however, was his notion of history. He
said that the aliens had caused the US to intervene on the side
of the communists during the Russian revolution. This is
problematic on two counts. First, the US did send a small number
of troops to Russia during the revolution, but sent them to help
the anti-communists.

Second, and much funnier, Cooper also said in the same talk that
the aliens came to earth in 1947, some thirty years after the
Russian revolution. Though of course maybe they had time
machines, and he forgot to tell us that!

Greg Sandow






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             Re: Space Dust May Be Another Solar System Similar

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 02:13:21 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 08:45:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Space Dust May Be Another Solar System Similar


AP via USA TODAY. URL:

http://www.usatoday.com/life/science/space/lss238.htm

Stig


*******


07/08/98- Updated 03:26 PM ET

The Nation's Homepage


Space dust may be another solar system


LOS ANGELES - A ring of dust particles circling a nearby star
looks remarkably like the belt of comets outside Pluto and
Neptune, and researchers think it could mean there are other
solar systems similar to ours.

Although there's no direct evidence yet of any planets in the
system, astronomers using a telescope in Hawaii found a bright
spot in the dusty ring around Epsilon Eridani, among the 10
closest stars to Earth.

The spot could be dust sucked into the gravitational field of a
young planet, said lead researcher Jane Greaves, project
scientist for the James Clerk Maxwell Telescope operated by
Great Britain's Joint Astronomy Centre in Hilo, Hawaii.

Another reason the dusty ring is so intriguing is that it's
located at approximately the same distance from the star as the
Kuiper Belt is from our sun. The Kuiper Belt contains about
70,000 large comets and millions of smaller ones.

Because there are so many parallels between the star system and
our solar system, the findings may be opening a window on the
early history of our sun and planets.

"It's almost like having a time machine and seeing the solar
system form," Greaves said.

Benjamin Zuckerman, a University of California, Los Angeles,
professor of physics and astronomy, described the image as "a
snapshot of what our solar system might have looked like 4
billion years ago."

Zuckerman, another member of the research team, said astronomers
have found other systems that have planets, "but they don't look
like our solar system."

Greaves is scheduled to present the results Wednesday at the
Protostar and Planets conference in Santa Barbara, Calif. She
submitted them last week for publication in Astrophysical
Journal Letters.

The system appears to be about where our 4.5 billion-year-old
solar system was 600 million years into its existence, when it
was heavily bombarded by comets and other debris, but life
hadn't yet gained a foothold.

At an estimated age of 500 million to 1 billion years, the
system around Epsilon Eridani is probably too young for even
primitive life to have developed, the researchers and outside
experts agreed.

"But given a few billion years, who knows what could evolve?"
said Martin J. Duncan, an astrophysicist at Queen's University
in Kingston, Ontario, who was not involved in the research.

He said the results also suggest "the possibility that planetary
systems might be quite common in the galaxy."

In April, the same research team reported similar dusty disks
around three very hot stars - Fomalhaut, Vega and Beta Pictoris
- indicating planets were forming around them. As planets form,
they suck up nearby dust and gas like vacuum cleaners and can
partially clean out some regions, leaving behind celestial
doughnut holes.

Epsilon Eridani, which is a relatively close star at a distance
of 10 light years (each light-year is 5.9 trillion miles) is
much more sunlike than the three stars thought to be the centers
of other planetary systems. Nearly as large as the sun, it can
be spotted with the naked eye in the constellation Eridanus.


By The Associated Press

=A9COPYRIGHT 1998 USA TODAY, a division of Gannett Co. Inc.





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             Re: UFO Enthusiasts Set To Converge On Alberta Town

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 03:03:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 09:37:52 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Enthusiasts Set To Converge On Alberta Town

>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 02:38:02 +0200
>Subject: UFO Enthusiasts Set To Converge On Alberta Town

>>From the Vancouver Sun.

>Stig

>*******


>Last updated: Wednesday 8 July 1998

>NATIONAL NEWS

>UFO enthusiasts set to converge on Alberta town

<snip>

>The town built a circular UFO landing
>pad as a centennial project in 1967 and made headlines in 1995 by
>starting a toll-free hotline (1-888-SEE-UFOS) to record sightings of
>alien craft.

>"It was started as a publicity stunt, we make no bones by that,"
>conference organizer Paul Pelletier said of the hotline, which is
>bankrolled by an anonymous patron in Las Vegas.


BIGELOW! Damn, that guy has a long reach! Money talks, BS walks!
My only problem with it is that anything that Bigelow gathers in
terms of information is never recirculated back to the public.
Lord only knows how much valuable data and information has
gone down that 'black hole' never to be seen again.

Peace,

John Velez







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                             Re: Sturrock Report

From: John Rimmer <j_rimmer@library.croydon.gov.uk>
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 11:16:13 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 09:31:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Sturrock Report

As Jerry comments, yes I am temporarily off-line and I am having
to keep up with UpDates via the 'Hundred Last Messages' service
on a borrowed computer, so my responses are not as fast or
frequent as I (if no one else) would like!

I'm sorry if I thought that Jerry et. al. welcomed the Sturrock
Report as an 'endorsement' of the ETH. However its findings were
welcomed with whoops of joy by Jerry and the ETHers and with the
clear implication that it was bad news for the PSH gang - "taken
it in the chops" in Mr Clark's elegant phrase.

It now seems, at least on UpDates, that everyone is agreed that
Sturrock does *not* promote the ETH, does *not* discredit the
PSH and quite rightly concludes that science, in the widest
sense, may be advanced by serious study of puzzling UFO reports.
We all appear to be in total agreement about this, so everyone
have a nice day!

BTW, I checked out the "hysterical" editorial about Sturrock in
New Scientist. Two paras tucked away at the end of the page. I
thought it was snide but basically accurate, and certainly not
hysterical.

Also BTW, still no response to Harney's attack on Klass's
dismissal of the
Travis Walton abduction. Come on you guys, give the chap a hand!

John Rimmer
Magonia Online
"The flagship of Psycho-Social ufology" - Jerome Clark







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                  Re: Why Did The Ufologist Cross The Road?

From: Scott Carr <sardonica@erols.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 22:26:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 08:51:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Why Did The Ufologist Cross The Road?

>I wasn't implying that you _had_ crossed the road, or that you
>were advocating that anyone else _should_ cross the road. I was
>simply asking why some people are so anxious to _encourage_ the
>crossing of the road in the first place.

>Don't be so jejune. If you were half as familiar with the
>literature of road-crossing as you claim to be, you wouldn't
>make statements like that. Many researchers who have been in
>this field for decades have compiled abundant evidence that the
>road has been crossed over and over again.

Enough UFO road crossing... Who's up for some ufological
cross-dressing?

-Scott C. Carr
Editor, The Flying Saucer Gazette
http://www.erols.com/sardonica

Producer, "UFO Desk"
99.5 FM WBAI, NY







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                     'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights

From: frances emma barwood <fbarwood@primenet.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 21:57:43 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 09:13:11 -0400
Subject: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights


This Thursday on A&E channel there will be a show called "The
Unexplained".  It is supposed to be about the Phoenix Lights and the
producer called me this evening to let me know so that I would watch
it.  He said that I am in it.  Hope it is good.

Let me know what you thought of it after you watch.

Thanks, Frances

Candidate for Arizona Secretary of State
Sept. 8 primary      Nov. 3 general
http://www.barwood.com      http://www.frances-emma-barwood.com
P.O.Box 86189, Phoenix, AZ 85080-6189  602-780-7650  602-780-9125 fax
"People can lie, cheat, steal and murder in this world, and they may get
away with it.  But we are all going to judgement and that is all that
matters."----John Leissner Koch 1955





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                     P1947 - Jan Aldrich's Roswell Trip

From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET>
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 00:50:41 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 10:40:06 -0400
Subject: P1947 - Jan Aldrich's Roswell Trip

Greetings List,

Just returned from a trip to New Mexico to check out George
Fawcett's donation to the International Roswell UFO Museum. It
was pleasant to meet with Wendy Connors and Loren Gross.

It was interesting to see some of the things in George's
collection which threw some light on other things that we had
from other sources. George's collection is a hodge podge of all
types on ufo related material. George was never too critical in
what he accepted, but he was an enthusiastic collector of
anything related to UFOs.

There are hundreds of leads to interesting material. Greenwood
and I are already working on some of these items. There are also
a large amount of "mystery" newspaper clippings (ie clippings
with not identification).

Old hands from the New England UFO Study Group will be happy to
know that not all the material and sighting investigations were
destroyed by Steve Putnam's wife. Besides the material that Joe
Nyman, Barry Greenwood, and Ed Fogg had retained, George had
significant material from the group in his files--in some cases
duplicates of material that Putnam had.

I did not finish with George's material. Also, I was unable to
get to Fort Bliss and El Paso to do some research there.
Likewise I was unable to check with the New Mexico Newspaper
Project to see what new material had been added to the
conservation efforts.

Most of the material now on hand at the Roswell Museum comes
from George Fawcett. Two other people donated collections to
George years ago and their material is intergrated into his
collection.

Robert Sabo's collection consisted mainly of books, journals,
magazine articles and pamphlets. There were few cases files or other
similar material. Most of what does exist involves the Brooksville,
Florida CE3 incident.

George has retained about 400-600 cases from the Carolinas and
Florida for a book he is writing. He also retains certain of the
better case files.

BEst regards,

Jan

--
Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.iufog.org/project1947/
P. O. Box 391, Canterbury, CT 06331, USA
Telephone: (860) 546-9135





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                   Re: Cooper - Maccabee Adds To The Story

From: Andy Denne <aura@telekabel2.nl>
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 16:26:02 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 12:58:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Cooper - Maccabee Adds To The Story


> From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Cooper - Maccabee Adds To The Story
> Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 12:50:32 -0400

> > Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 00:03:50 -0400
> > From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
> > Subject: UFO UpDate: William Cooper Taking On Authorities
> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> > Oh, yes, I might point out the 'Behold A Pale Horse' (which
> > should be titled 'Behind A Pale Horse' or some such) is Cooper's
> > "Mein Kampf". And I'm in there, along with most other
> > ufologists, as a nasty government agent out to screw Cooper and
> > freedom loving people all over the world. Cooper's motto...

> "Behold A Pale Horse" includes the full text of the Protocols of
> the Elders of Zion, a vicious anti-Semitic document forged, if I
> remember correctly, by the Czarist secret police. Cooper
> subsequently (again if I remember correctly) said it really
> wasn't about Jews, although of course it purports to be a secret
> Jewish document detailing plans for various atrocities.

That's what I thought! And I wonder how one can read Cooper
without noticing the right-winged, (sometimes downright fascistic)
ideology he's so full off.

I must say that as an european, I'm quiet surprised of
Dr. Maccabee's reaction...didn't he speak about "left pinkies"
in one of his recent postings?

What's going on here???


Andy Denne
(A.U.R.A.)
The Netherlands






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                 Re: Correction and Apology From Jerry Black

From: Beverly B. Pilcher <Lanasidhe@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 11:02:05 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 13:09:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Correction and Apology From Jerry Black


>Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 18:30:10 -0500
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net>
>Subject: Correction and Apology From Jerry Black

Well, I was there at Gulf Breeze when the video was taken and Mr
Black also has some of his "facts" wrong.

The young couple who took the video were merely in a parking lot
away from the hotel in which the GB conference was being held at
the time.

Not 40 miles away as stated in the letter.

The actual conference was held in a hotel right across the
bridge from Gulf Breeze on the beach rather than in the city
proper.

And just another note of interest. Perhaps Ed Walters picture
taken over the road with the craft reflecting off of the road
is fake.

Then what is to account for the dozens of pictures taken of the
same craft by many other people other than Ed Walters in the
same area? Many of whom I have personally spoken to.

Come to Gulf Breeze if you want to call yourself a researcher.

I have been a researcher for over 35 years, and would welcome
the chance to speak with you.

If all of this was a hoax, then I am sure the people who sit
there on the beach every night and have for over ten years,
would like to be told this so they can go home to their families
at night.

Sincerely.

Beverly B. Pilcher
168 Morgan Ave
Mobile,Ala  36606








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   Jul > Jul 9

                              Curious Sighting

From: Marty Garza <laquinta@rgv.net>
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 11:47:41 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 13:11:03 -0400
Subject: Curious Sighting

Date:          July 8, 1998

Time:          9:09 P.M.

Duration:      1 1/2 - 2 min.

Location:      McAllen, TX

No. Witnesses: 2

No. Objects:   2

Object
Description:   Star/Satellite like

Sighting Description:

Although not a terribly exciting event, there were aspects which
set this apart from the mundane.

While outside our home in south Texas I observed what at first
appeared to be 2 satellites traveling parallel to each other in
an east-south-east direction.  The objects were approximately 45
degrees off the southern horizon and separated by about 2-3
degrees.  They exhibited a luminance similar to that of a
satellite and assuming them to be just that, I pointed them out
to my wife.  About this time I noticed that the object highest
off the horizon appeared to start pulling away from the other and
arc to the south until it was directly ahead of the other.  I
thought to myself these must be two satellites on slightly
different orbits which just happened to cross paths at that
point.  However once ahead of the other the objects maintained
their relative positions for approximately 1 minute until they
were lost passing just to the right of the full moon which was
approximately 35-40 degrees off the east-south-east horizon.

These were clearly not (conventional) aircraft. But, if viewed as
a single object would certainly have been attributed to a
satellite.  It is only their interaction which makes this a
curious sighting.

I considered possible optical illusion which could account for
such perception but this would not appear to be the case.  Is
there anything else in orbit at this time (Mir, Shuttle, Etc.)
which might account for this observation?

Marty G.






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                            Re: Mexico City Fake

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 10:19:07 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 13:33:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico City Fake


>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mexico City Fake
>Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 11:30:13 -0400

>Isn't Bob Kiviat the guy from FOX that Friedman and Randle
>wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole? I hope you have a very long
>spoon when you go lunching with the guy.

Kiviat worked for Unsolved Mysteries some years ago and then set
up his own company in 1995 and produced the Alien Autopsy TV
show. He did the "Best Video Evidence" last summer andis coming
out with another which will "surprise" all the believers, I am
told. (I have not seen his latest effort.)


>>I will not state, as does Sainio, that I am, 100 % confident that
>>the Mexcity video of Aug 6 is a fake, but as I have said before,
>>it has serious problems that might only be explained, if at all,
>>by having access to the cameraman and the original camera.

>This looks like the Santilli syndrome: for debunkers, no
>evidence can ever be acceptable when it proves the reality of
>UFOs, but, for some ufologists, no evidence can ever be
>discarded even when its trash. Looks like the birth of another
>urban legend.

Yes, sad but true. The propoer response is that of Stanton
Friedman: have a large "grey basket" in which you store
sightings or information for which there is..... (to borrow a
phrase from Special Report #14)..."Insufficient Evidence" to
conclude one way or another.

>For two months (geez!) highly significant evidence has been
>witheld to the interested people (e.g. the ones who have the
>right to know) because credible ufologists were making business

Don't know what you mean by "making business". This analysis
is not associated with any money for me or Sainio. All the $$
eventually went through the Elders to Maussan, so far as I can
tell.

>with someone who applies to the Stacy Form. And since this is
>not enough, we will still be talking of the Mexico Fake as
>possible evidence in 10 years.


>The Stacy Form: please fill in the blanks

>If he/she believes ___________ claims, then God help us all.
>Begging _________'s pardon, but there hasn't been a bigger liar
>in the field since the days of __________.

>Let's cut the crap. ___________ is a goddam liar, pure and
>simple. (And so is his co-confabulator, ___________.)

>You can send him my e-mail address, and you can send his attorney
>my e-mail address.

>I repeat: ___________ is a goddam liar.

>And anyone who believes him for more than a minute is a goddam
>fool.

>Have I made myself clear?

>___________ is a goddam liar. ___________ is merely a man after a
>buck.

>Any questions?

>.      Signed: ___________________

>PS: ___________ is a goddam liar.
<

HA HA HA. This form certainly has a familiar sort of "ring" to
it.





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             Re: UFO Enthusiasts Set To Converge On Alberta Town

From: Geoff G. Dittman <umdittm0@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 13:16:24 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 21:27:54 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Enthusiasts Set To Converge On Alberta Town


>Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 03:03:43 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFO Enthusiasts Set To Converge On Alberta Town

<snip>

> >"It was started as a publicity stunt, we make no bones by that,"
> >conference organizer Paul Pelletier said of the hotline, which is
> >bankrolled by an anonymous patron in Las Vegas.

> BIGELOW! Damn, that guy has a long reach! Money talks, BS walks!
> My only problem with it is that anything that Bigelow gathers in
> terms of information is never recirculated back to the public.

<snip>

While he does like to hoard info, the reports called in to the
hotline however are made available to the public.  The annual Cdn.
UFO Survey includes several dozen a year that were received from
St. Paul.

Geoff Dittman
Cdn UFO Survey http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/2653







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                             Re: Sturrock Report

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 15:31:23 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 21:35:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Sturrock Report


>Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 11:16:13 +0100
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>From: John Rimmer <j_rimmer@library.croydon.gov.uk>
>Subject: Sturrock Report

> Also BTW, still no response to Harney's attack on Klass's
> dismissal of the
> Travis Walton abduction. Come on you guys, give the chap a hand!

John,

You seem to think that this is about taking sides. "Our" side,
you seem to think, should be glad that someone on "your" side
acknowledges one of "our" points.

But that's not the issue. I hope my praise of Peter Brooksmith's
Occam's Razor post some time ago shows how eagerly I welcome
serious thinking by those I disagree with.

Harney's piece, however, wasn't serious, because he hadn't done
his research. That was the problem with it. That's why Jerry
Clark and others objected so much.

Harney clearly had little idea of who Jerry is or what he's
written. He uncritically accepted Phil Klass's very old analysis
of the RB-47 case, which is, very simply, bad journalism.
Klass's analysis appears in a book published in 1974, for God's
sake. Before Harney publishes anything that accepts Klass as
gospel, it's his responsibility to ask if any new information or
analysis has surfaced in the past 24 years. I could get fired
from some of my professional journalistic jobs for not doing
something like that.

So when Harney says Phil's debunking of the Walton case is
mistaken, I'm not impressed. What's his source for that? Maybe
he has no more idea of what he's talking about here than he does
when he goes on about Jerry or about the RB-47 case.

Let me repeat. I'm not keeping track of which side scores more
points, and I'm not impressed with ignorant or unintelligent
writing, no matter whose side it takes.

Greg Sandow






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                           The Case For Humanoids

From: Mark Pilkington <m.pilkington@virgin.net>
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 22:59:19 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 21:44:33 -0400
Subject: The Case For Humanoids


The P.L.A. Driftwood International Conspiracy Cartel's computer
is temporarily out of action, so Mark Pilkington has kindly
agreed to post this on our behalf.

John Rimmer writes:

In recent postings on this list, Jerry Clark has made a great
deal of noise about the work of Michael Swords. Swords argument
is that any extraterrestrial intelligences which are likely to
visit earth will be generally humanoid in shape and have similar
social motivations as humans. For some reason Jerry seems to
think that this theory is supportive of ETH speculations about
UFO origins. Dennis Stacy describes being at the 1991 MUFON
symposium when Swords gave one of his first public expositions
of his exobiological speculations.

It is puzzling that Jerry should think that Swords' work is
either groundbreaking or supportive of the ETH. I attach an
extract from a short article, "The Case for Humanoids" by
psycho-social bogeyman John Harney, which was published in MUFOB
(the earlier name of Magonia) new series no.6, Spring 1977.
Jerry did receive this magazine at the time, but no doubt it is
filed away beneath the wealth of other publications which he is
constantly urging us to read.

THE CASE FOR HUMANOIDS

John Harney

Is it likely that there are intelligent beings on other planets?
Would they resemble us, or would they be totally different in
appearance and behaviour?

Many scientists today believe that life will eventually evolve
where it is physically possible for it to do so, and given
sufficient time and favourable conditions, intelligent being
will eventually emerge. New discoveries in biology are taking
place almost daily but the question of the origin of life is
still controversial. Some experts believe that the origin of
life of Earth was a singular event, the result of an extremely
unlikely chain of chemical reactions, an event so improbable as
to be unlikely to be repeated anywher else in the universe at
any time. According to Jacques Monod:

"...the biosphere does not contain a predictable class of
objects or events but is a particular event, certainly
compatible indeed with first principles, but not *deducable*
from those principles, and therefore unpredictable." (1)

However, many scientists would argue that it would be possible
to predict the occurence of life, if only we knew enough about
biology. Those who believe that life is quite common in the
universe often say that it is unlikely to be much like life on
Earth:

"Some scientists have been especially impressed by the number of
individually unlikely events which are together responsible for
the development of man and human intelligence. They have
emphasised that even if the Earth were starting out again from
scratch, and only random factors allowed to operate, the
development of anything like a human being would be highly
unlikely." (2)

Such opinions seem very plausible, but they fail to take into
account the various constraints imposed by the laws of nature.
For example: "...silicon compounds might replace carbon
molecules as structural biochemicals". (3) The notion that there
could be forms of life based on silicon rather than carbon crops
up again and again in the literature. It should not be taken
seriously, as such an idea betrays an ignorance of elementary
chemistry. Some writers assume that because silicon is the
nearest neighbour to carbon in the periodic table and also has a
valency of four, then it can form bolds with hydrogen, oxygen,
etc., to produce compounds analogous to compounds based on
carbon and having similar properties. this is not true. The bond
energies involved in the links between silicon and other
elements, and carbon and other elements, have different values.
the Si-Si bondis weaker than the C-C bond, but the Si-O bond is
stronger that the C-O bond. To see what this means in practice
we can compare the gas that bubbles out of fizzy drinks, carbon
dioxide, with a lump of quartz, silicon dioxide. I maintain that
anyone who takes the trouble to consult the appropriate
chemistry text-books will be readily convinced that a
biochemistry based on silicon is impossible.

So here we have a basic constraint on the nature of any living
creature, imposed by the laws of chemistry. Observational
evidence indicates that these laws are the same throughout the
observable universe, so there would seem to be no way of
avoiding this conclusion.

Assuming that intelligent beings have evolved on other planets,
what would they look like? It is tempting to speculate that they
would look like 'nothing on Earth', but we must not let our
imaginations run wild. The laws of nature impose many
constraints on the size and shape of living organisms, and even
on the social behavior of intelligent creatures.

If we wish to design a hypothetical intelligent being, where do
we start? Well, it would need a brain, and a very elaborate one
at that. Thus it will need to be big enough to support a large
brain, and this delicate organ will need some sort of
protection. How about a skill? The brain will also need sensory
inputs to tell it what is happening in the outside world. it
will need eyes, of only to avoid such disasters as falling off
cliffs or walking under buses. Yes, but would those eyes
necessarily see the same wavelengths as our eyes? Undoubtedly
so, because planetary atmospheres are most transparent to those
wavelengths which we detect as visible light. What about
'seeing' with radio waves? Well, with radio waves:

"In order to have any useful resolution - that is, detection of
fine visual detail - the effective collecting area must be
enormous. To have the same resolving power at 5cm wavelengths
that they eye has at 5000A. wavelength, an extraterrestrial
microwave 'eyeball' would have to be roughly half a mile in
diameter." (4)

We could go on to fill a full-length book with similar
arguments, but the whole question is neatly summed up in the
words of Professor M R House:

"Typical gross form associated with ecological habit for a given animal
size and mode of life, suggests that there is a 'paradigm' or theoretically
appropriate form for given circumstances, and that selection pressures tend
to work towards this by eliminating those organisms least approximating to
it". (5)

House points to various examples of evolutionary convergence
such as gross similarities between swimming reptiles, mammals
and fish, and the fact that "sabre-tooth tigers of the Tertiary,
of South Africa were marsupial mammals, whilst the present-day
tigers are placental mammals".

In other words, where there is an ecological niche it will
eventually be filled, by the processes of evolution, with the
appropriate animal or plant. Because of the natural constraints
imposed by the laws of physics and chemistry, ecological niches
on other planets must bear some resemblance to those with which
we are familiar on Earth . . .

Harney continues with speculation that extraterrestrial
intelligences would also tend to similarities in aspects of
social organization and behaviour, concluding that "they would
undoubtedly have to face and and find answers to similar
problems to ours - technical, economic, political and
philosophical".

1. Jacques Monod, 'Chance and Necessity', translated by Austryn
Wainhouse, Collins, London 1972
2. I.S.Shklovskii and Carl Sagan, 'Intelligent Life in the
Universe', Dell, NY, 1968
3. Ibid.
4. Ibid.
5. M.R.House, 'Evolution and the Fossil Record', in
'Understanding the Earth', Artemis Press/OU Press, 2nd. ed.,
1974.

It seems to me that much of Swords' speculation can be accepted
almost as a given by both ETH advocates and PSH proponents. It
has little to do with the reality of whether any potential ET
craft has ever visited this planet. For that we are inevitably
brought back to the investigation of individual cases, which
really is where we came in, with the ten or fifty, (or even one)
best cases.

John Rimmer
Magonia (still On-Line) at www.magonia.demon.co.uk
Mark Pilkington
------------------------------------------------
Magonia online

http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk






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                       Re: Elaine Douglas on John Ford

From: Elaine M Douglass <elaine26@juno.com>
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 18:48:15 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 22:37:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Elaine Douglas on John Ford

>Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:10:27 -0500 (CDT)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Elaine M Douglass on John Ford

>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Elaine Douglas on John Ford [was: Ford
>Fund?]
>>From: Elaine M Douglass <elaine26@juno.com>
>>Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 02:10:27 EDT

>>My Dear Dennis:

><snip>

>>I can see, though, why you liked Mr. "Hepcat's" article, Dennis.
>>Both you and he could vie for "intemperate of the year" honors in
>>anybody's book.

>>Elaine Douglass

>My Dear Elaine:

>And you are the "ingrate of the year." I'll repeat some of your
>original remarks which began this exchange:

>>>>His lawyer deserted me, and Dennis Stacy was eager to print
>>>>incriminating information on John and did, and John himself did
>>>>not or could not defend himself.

>Why am I the one named here, and not the lawyer who deserted you
>and presumably his client? Why are you trying to make me a major
>villain in the John Ford saga?

Dear Dennis:

I would have answered this message sooner, but I was away for about 10
days.

Dennis, I'm really sorry we got into this discussion of John Ford, and
you are right--none of what happened was your fault. When I wrote that
message I didn't mean to single you out. When the communiques came in
about John Ford I was shocked and I just rattled off whatever came into
my mind quickly. Now I don't agree with everything you've said below, and
I don't think you're a cream puff. You're a tough individual, but that's
the way you are and you were doing a journalists' job at that time.

>And since when were you granted
>the ability to read minds, so that you know when I'm "eager" to
>print something or not? If I was so eager to publish
>incriminating information, then why would I have published your
>article first (or, for that matter, at all)?

>After I did, though, it quickly became apparent to me, if not
>you, that there were no relevant, related UFO issues as far as
>John Ford's own unfortunate personal circumstances were
>concerned. There was no concerted effort on the part of local
>authorities or anyone else to cover up the ridiculous Long Island
>crash or otherwise squelch John Ford's continuing
>"investigations."

Dennis, you can't say what you've said in the above paragraph,
because the fact is we don't know what happened to John Ford. We
could though narrow it down to 2 hypothesis. First would be that
the police came down on John ONLY because one of his "friends"
tried to illegally sell one of John's legally registered
firearms, an informant got wind of it, and the police moved in
only for that reason. John liked to talk big and the police
taped him doing that--"we're gonna put radium in so and so's
toothpaste." John had bunches of people he didn't like--so do
you Dennis, and so do I. And haven't you been known to make
remarks like, 'the next time I see so and so, I'm going to push
him in front of a fast moving car'? I've said tons of things
like that in my life. It's called hyperbole. The reason John had
radium--in a very small quantity--was for the purpose of
calibrating his 2 geiger counters.

Now Dennis, I was at the MUFON conf last week, and MUFON
official John Schussler told everybody they might consider
purchasing a geiger counter, and other technical equipment, to
use in investigations. John had geiger counters; radium is a
source of a known quantity of radioactivity and you use it to
calibrate a geiger counter when the counter gets out of wack. So
the police recorded John saying that and technically he
committed a crime by saying it, and so if you just suppose John
was massively unlucky, and you can suppose the DA wanted
publicity to show the people of Long Island how tough he was on
crime--massively unlucky, and a guy with no criminal record and
who used to be a law enforcement officer himself, and it leads
to all the bad things that happened to John. Prohibitive bail of
$350,000. He sits in jail for a year and he deterioriates. I
KNEW JOHN FORD, DENNIS, I KNEW HIM WELL, AND ALL THE TIMES I
SPENT WITH HIM HE DID NOT DO ANYTHING CRAZY AROUND ME. The
"craziest" thing I saw John do was he got a video which I swear
had nothing on it and he swore there were "aliens" on it, and I
said John, stop this nonsense and he went on and on with it.
But, Dennis, that is not crazy--crazy means psychotic; only
psychotic justifies putting someone in a mental hospital or
drugging them in jail--the behavior I describe was neurotic, not
psychotic, and, Dennis, we are ALL neurotic. You know it's
interesting Dennis, but one of the tales John told me, allegedly
related by some source or other, was of an alien craft landing
on a farm, the farmer alerting authorities, the farm is secured
and everything removed and then the farmer is given a drug, by
the authorities, which precipitates a temporary psychotic
episode, the farmer is temporarily hospitalized, and thereafter
no one would believe him about the UFO which landed on his farm.

Do you put such tactics beyond our govt? The other alternative
would be to off the farmer. We wouldn't prefer that, would we?
So the govt benevolently administers this drug.

I don't have personal knowledge of that story; I didn't
interview that alleged informant. I did personally interivew a
former military who told me his job in the military was to be a
member of one of those fast response units, which would go in
anywhere and do whatever needed to be done--and he told me he
and his colleagues were quite aware of the alien reality.

Back to John Ford. Just massively unlucky. That's all there was
to it. Could be!

Other alternative is, as I said in my article, is that there
were UFO events on Long Island which John was made aware of and,
however garbled his rendiditon of these events may--or may
not--have been, that deeper authorities wanted to get rid of
John and did.

>In short, it was clear that John Ford had gone off the deep end,
>and you wanted us all to follow him. If you'd had your way, the
>Journal would have been turned into the John Ford Update.

That (above) is not a fair statement Dennis. I gave you one,
well-written article and did not attempt to have further
insertions, other than a rebuttal.

>You're right that I should have edited out Hepcat's most
>egregious remark. A belated apology on my part. You're wrong if
>you think, in the wake of your own article, that I didn't get
>several articles complaining about why we were giving space to
>this non-case in the first place.

Of course, Dennis, and when didn't you get letters complaining
about "why are you giving space to this or that non-case?" That
was what it was like being editor of the mufon journal.

>So I repeat: I am not the villain here. Nothing I did had
>anything to do with Ford's own actions or contributed in any way
>whatsoever to his present situation. I regret the latter, but I
>had nothing to do with it. You might as well insinuate that I had
>something to do with Richard Boylan and Edith Fiore losing their
>licenses to practice.

You are absolutely correct Dennis. What happened to John took
place in the DA's office on Long Island, and they weren't
reading the mufon journal. Again, I am sorry I used your name
and implied anything like that.

>Two final thoughts to consider: some already discombobulated
>people inevitably drift into this field. Other borderline cases
>drift into the field and then become discombobulated. This stuff
>is not for the faint of heart.

>But take heart, nonetheless. As you well know, I no longer edit
>the MUFON Journal, which means you won't now have to go over my
>head to promote your own personal vision of the UFO phenomenon. I
>didn't buy the latter, and I make no apology for it. Just as I
>didn't buy the Ford, Boylan, Fiore or Corso version, either.

Not fair, Dennis. I went over your head to publish a 1/3 column
rebuttal to a nasty letter, not to promote my "personal vision."
Unless you're calling "personal vision" my insistance that John
Ford should not be in jail--because he is not a threat to any
person's safety. The one who wrote that nasty letter was
confused. He seemed to think that because he didn't like John
Ford, therefore John Ford should be in jail. In my article I
never held I knew for sure what was behind John's arrest, only
certainty was he should not be in jail because because he is not
a threat to anyone. I wish you would have respected me a little
more for my position and been a little nicer to me. Nonetheless,
I again apologize for dragging your name into this mess. I have
no wish to do you harm.







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                  Re: Why Did The Ufologist Cross The Road?

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 18:58:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 21:55:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Why Did The Ufologist Cross The Road?

>From: Scott Carr <sardonica@erols.com>
>To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Why Did The Ufologist Cross The Road?
>Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 22:26:42 -0400

>>I wasn't implying that you _had_ crossed the road, or that you
>>were advocating that anyone else _should_ cross the road. I was
>>simply asking why some people are so anxious to _encourage_ the
>>crossing of the road in the first place.

>>Don't be so jejune. If you were half as familiar with the
>>literature of road-crossing as you claim to be, you wouldn't
>>make statements like that. Many researchers who have been in
>>this field for decades have compiled abundant evidence that the
>>road has been crossed over and over again.

>Enough UFO road crossing... Who's up for some ufological
>cross-dressing?

You better knock it off Scott, you're going to scare away
all the 'straights!'  <LMAO>

John Velez







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                              Filer's Files #27

From: George  A.  Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 18:26:28 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 21:52:49 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #27

Filer's Files #27-1998 MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George  A.  Filer,    MUFON Eastern Director,
July 9, 1998, Majorstar@aol.com  609 654-0020

The Zulu African Spiritual Leader speaking about Extraterrestrial Beings
visiting our Earth states, "The universe is a gigantic chamber of possibility
where everything has the chance and the right to happen, and so we must not
have cut-and-dry theories regarding just how life should look." From
Vusamazula Mutwa�s book, Song of the Stars.  Page 143. Thanks to Irene
McDonald.

NEW JERSEY

Brick, NJ.  Jason Blalalck states: "On the morning of July 4th at 2:45 a.m. I
witnessed a bright pulsing light while fishing at Lake Riviera.  The light
hovered in the western sky for approximately thirty minutes above Lakehurst,
NJ.  While hovering, the light would glow a blue-green and then move slightly
at 90 degree angles at which time it would glow white.  This  continued until
the light began moving south for what appeared to be 3 to 4 miles.  It was
about the size of 1/4 of a dime held at arm's length.  The light hovered again
for about ten minutes glowed very brightly, blinked on and off a couple of
times, and then shot off  towards the north at an extremely high rate of
speed.  Thanks to Jason Blalalck E-mail: rblalack@monmouth.com.

Vineland, NJ.  On May 21,1998,  Lori and her friend visited open air shopping
market near Vineland.  The shopping area was partly covered and they went
inside.  Her friend was looking for pot holders and she was looking with her.
When all of a sudden, they found themselves in a field.  They looked at their
watches and it was 2:35 PM. They realized that two hours had passed in a
moment.  Lori said, "They just woke up in this field, there were no vendors
in this area, there was no parking area or shopping area where they were.  The
two women were in a field way behind the shopping mart!  When they gained
consciousness they both said at the same time, "How did we get out here,
what's going on?"  They both were very upset about the whole incident.  Lori�s
friend kept saying,  "Maybe we passed out in the place?"  Lori answered, "If
we had fainted, they would  have called an ambulance."  Lori asked the woman
if she would like to talk to a MUFON investigator?  She said no and that she
didn't even want Lori to mention her name.  The woman was very frightened and
has strange new scars on her body.  Thanks to Evelyn Galson. (Names with held
by request)

McGuire Air Force Base, NJ.  July 8, 1998.  Peter Chesky reports he was
driving down the back roads behind the base with his mother in the car.  "We
looked up into the sky ahead of us and saw a glowing round ball.  It was
pretty far away so I could not really see what it was.  It came towards the
earth slowly."  The military conduct training in this area, but it did not
seem to be a flare or something caused by them.  I wanted to go closer, but my
mother insisted we go home.  Later, I went back to the area with her husband,
but the object was no longer visible."  Thanks to Peter Chesky
pcrc@impop.bellatlantic.net. Phone 215-673-0124,
http://www.quantumconnections.com/

PENNSYLVANIA

Stan Gordon reports a strange object with long appendages was sighted in Ross
Township near Pittsburgh on July 7, 1998.  The sighting occurred at 8:42 PM,
and Stan received the report only twenty minutes later.  A couple was admiring
the beautiful sunset and noticed a black object just above the top of some
clouds that appeared to be motionless.  The National Weather Service indicates
the clouds' tops were at 10,000 feet with generally clear skies.  The black
object looked like the fuselage of a large aircraft, but without wings or
rotor blades.  As they watched, the object appeared to slowly rise in
altitude.  Curious the man obtained his WWII Navy issue binoculars to take a
better look.  Through the binoculars, the object looked like a black
helicopter fuselage without rotor blades or lights.  On the top of the object
was two long projections that looked like two giant lollipops or "big
antennas."  They were long and solid looking with a round object on the end.
The object began turning from side to side with a fishtail movement showing 6
to 10 long appendages around the top, underneath and sides.  After ten minutes
the object moved north picking up speed and disappeared behind a tree.  There
have been numerous UFO sightings reported around the Pittsburgh area since
early May. Thanks to Stan Gordon PAUFO@WESTOL.COM.

MARYLAND

On July 1, 1998, at 8:53 PM, a witness sighted a UFO near his home in Bowie, a
suburban community located 20 miles northeast of Washington, D.C.   "I
observed a bright white point of light which appeared about 1.5 degrees north
of the half moon.  It moved extremely slowly to the northwest," he reported.
"I estimated the light to be about magnitude zero and briefly mistook it for
Jupiter, which I quickly realized should not have been there.  After about
three to four minutes of observation with binoculars, it rested at about 0.5
to 1.0 degrees northwest of what I believe was the star Porrima (Gamma
Virginus) or about three degrees northwest of the moon.  The steady brightness
and very slow movement suggest to me that the light was not an aircraft.  The
light then flashed for several seconds to maybe magnitude 5 or 6, then
disappeared. I saw a faint 'puff' of white smoke or vapor, not a trail, where
the object had been seconds before.  (Thanks to Jim Hickman of Skywatch for
forwarding this report.)

GEORGIA

Stone Mountain: David Howell McCarty  reports that on June 20, 1998, I was
walking to get my morning paper around 8 AM.  I looked over my left shoulder
and saw the faint image of a flying object in the distance.  As I proceeded
towards my home the object continued closer as if coming towards me.  It
seemed to stop right above me and signaled to me with lights.  The UFO then
flew off and I lost eye contact about five minutes later. Thanks to ISUR and
David McCarty (404)-252-6049 at 5901 Musket Lane, Stone Mountain, GA. 30087,
mccartydh@aol.com

Rome, GA: On July 5, 1998, Regina Sanford-Garrett reports a bright light
bouncing in the southeast about 1,000 feet in the air at 1:19AM.  The UFO made
swift movements up and down and to the left and right.  These erratic
movements continued for over an hour.  At 2:34 AM the UFO was still hovering,
but the location changed slightly. Thanks to ISUR and Regina Sanford-Garrett
706-802-0883, 634 Eden Valley Road S.E. Rome, GA. 30161 UBDZ31A@PRODIGY

MICHIGAN

Kalamazoo/Plainwell.  On July 2, 1998, the witness reports I had been online
until 1:15 AM chatting with a friend.  I decided to go outside to chain up my
dog in the back of our yard, and noticed a bright light just over our trees.
I stared at it for about three minutes.  At first I thought it was the moon.
The shape and color were very odd.  The bottom half of it was blocked by the
trees, but the top half looked cone shape, bright orange glowing with a haze
around it.  I was so taken by it that I got my husband so he could see it.
Not a minute later it was gone.  Also, a few months ago, I was awoken by this
"woosh, woosh" noise.  It sounded as if it was over our house.  I went to
investigate and could find nothing.  Could you please let me know if there
have been other reports of this orange light in the sky?  I am from the Cooper
Township area in Michigan.  This event took place at 1:30 AM.  Thanks to
Bagooz@aol.com.
Editors note:  UFOs are being observed on both sides of Lake Michigan in
recent weeks.

UFO OVER PORT WASHINGTON, WISCONSIN

Correction, Port Washington is located on the western shore of Lake Michigan
25 miles north of Milwaukee, Wisconsin and not in Michigan as I reported last
week. Bob Mueller reported that he "saw five black helicopters fly over his
house on Saturday, and again on Sunday, June 14, 1998.  Then at 11 PM, "I went
out to my car saw a moving, flashing orange light very high in the sky.  When
it flashed, it was very bright and reflected off my car and glasses.  The UFO
was heading in a straight line due north along the same path as the
helicopters."   Thanks to Bob Mueller.

TEXAS

Arlington, Texas:  On June 26, 1998, while attending a family outing I noticed
an unusual pulsating red object in the night sky at 9:15 PM.  I noticed an
object that did not match the "norm" for aircraft in this area.  I was five
miles from Dallas Fort Worth International Airport where I often watch
aircraft make their approaches.  I saw several aircraft fly by with their
standard aircraft lighting of red, white landing lights and white strobes.?
The unknown object was flying in the same area of sky as the previous known
aircraft had been flying.  This unknown object was displaying only a single
red light.  No landing lights or strobes were visible during the entire
sighting.  Only this single very large red light that pulsated from its
brightest down to a dim glow and back to bright again was visible.  It moved
across the sky at twice the speed of the other aircraft about 33 degrees above
the horizon.  I calculated the frequency from peak brightness to dimly lit and
back to full brightness as being one second peak to peak.  The transition
throughout the cycle was a very smooth gradual brightening from dim to
brightest.  The size of the red light appeared to be a similar size as a
standard aircraft landing light and about as bright.  It flew at a steady
speed and continued the cycling of the light until it moved out of sight
behind some trees.  I would estimate it to have been approximately two miles
from my location.  If anyone has a clue to the identity,  please e-mail me at
the below address. Thanks to Mike Harman at Mike_Harman@rocketmail.com

NEW MEXICO

R. Jones reports she had a siting on July 1, 1997, near Roswell, NM of a
silvery disk shaped UFO.  It was around 6:30 PM when they noticed a stationary
craft starting to move back and forth horizontally.  Later, it was motionless
again, and then all of a sudden it was gone.  This was the first time I had
ever seen a daylight UFO sighting.  It  lasted for quite a while too.  There
was some kind or energy field around the craft.  Actually, it was very
beautiful sight.  Thanks to RJones3887@aol.com. (Chat Interview)

ARIZONA CATTLE MUTILATIONS

On July 6, 1998, Terry W. Colvin reports:  "Something is killing and
mutilating cattle, horses, and other animals in the Southeast Arizona counties
of Cochise, Pima, and Santa Cruz.  This area is about 2,500 square miles of
small towns, ranches, farms, orchards, vineyards, and the Army�s Fort
Huachuca.  Robert Marsett, a cowhand with the Sands Ranch, tells of a recent
kill and mutilation.  The carcass appeared where only live cattle were seen
the day before, although the dead cow smelled as though it had been dead for
several days.  Marsett says coyotes and vultures did not approach the carcass.
Nearby cows failed to nuzzle the carcass, as normally happens.  Some blood was
drained, organs were missing, and some samples were taken in the genital and
rectal area.  He states, the cowhands are now "packing iron" as "flakes" are
suspected.  Thanks to Peter Gersten CAUS and Terry W. Colvin"
fortean@primenet.com.

NEVADA

ISUR's received this report from Kat stating, "On July 4, 1998, hundreds of
fireworks spectators were treated with an even more rare an interesting sight
when they left the fireworks at Incline Village.  Hovering in the sky, about
the size of a car tire was an oval, red and white lighted object that changed
directions rapidly and had other strange movements. Everyone was joking and
saying the movie "Independence Day has arrived" but I've never seen anything
so strange.  Although, I've never seen any other UFOs, what else could it have
been with such strange movements? Thanks to ISUR John Thompson and kat (arrow-
d14.sierra.net

CHILE

A very large dark disc-shaped UFO visited the huge hydroelectric dam at Lago
(Lake) de Colbun in southern Chile on May 16, 1998.  The UFO was witnessed by
over 30 people.  They described it as a gigantic dark disc with a big orange
light in the bottom center.  Small lights moved around on the outer rim of the
object.  Lago de Colbun is Chile's biggest hydroelectric dam is located 120
miles south of Santiago de Chile.  The UFO hovered at 1,000 meters (3,300
feet) above the ground and remained in view for 20 minutes before flying
across the lake and into the Andes.   Witnesses described the object as "so
big that it seemed to cover the whole valley." Ufologist Luis Sanchez Perry
says many UFOs have been seen in recent months. "They call the UFOs robones
(thieves) because that they say they steal electricity. Before they had the
high-tech plant, they only had one or two blackouts in a month, but now they
have three in a week.  UFOs are seen coming out of Lake Colbun near the high
tension wires, absorbing electricity, and taking water.  Some UFOs fly at high
speed through the valley towards the hydroelectric plant," coming within a few
hundred meters of the dam before disappearing." Thanks UFO Roundup Joe Trainor
editor for this report

NEW AIRCRAFT LIGHTING SYSTEM

Joel Carpenter reports seeing a very unusual aircraft lighting pattern on a
Gulfstream IV corporate jet landing at Philadelphia Airport.  The lights were
bright white like normal landing lights, but I noticed that they were dimming
and brightening in a strange pattern - not a regular interval like a strobe,
but almost randomly. It almost looked like someone waving a flashlight. The
landing lights were _blinking_ randomly, side to side - almost like the
headlights on an ambulance or police car.  It also had the regular white
strobe and red fuselage lights, but these blinking landing lights looked
_weird.  Ufologist and commercial pilot Bob Durant reports.  "What Joel saw is
a fairly new lighting system that is an option for buyers of the latest
generation of business jets.  These are white lights, one on each side of the
fuselage, at about the wing root, and these turn on and off about one second
per on, one second off, and in such a way that when one side is on, the other
side is off.  The appearance is quite strange, especially the first time you
see one in action.  But it is also a very good way to attract attention, which
is why these things were invented.  In addition to the "running" lights, green
on the right wing tip and red on the left wing tip, which are on steady, there
is always a rotating or flashing red light.  Newer ones are strobes, the older
ones literally rotate.  The addition of the lighting system described by Joel
is a substantial advance, in my opinion.  But it is also probably expensive to
retrofit, so it will remain rare.

THREE UFOs VISIT NORTHERN IRELAND

On June 17, 1998, several people in Galliach, near Derry, Northern Ireland
reported sighting three silver spheres flying and hovering over their homes
around 11 AM.   According to the Derry Journal of June 19, there were several
reports of UFOs in the sky around the Galliach 120 kilometers northeast of
Belfast.  One witness said, "It was spinning, and you could see the sun
reflected from it.  But the strange thing was there was no sound.  Then two
other objects and that strange light could be seen spinning high in the sky."
"The objects flew across the sky and two disappeared by flying straight up
into the atmosphere.  The other reportedly disappeared after flying across the
sky."   Galliach is about  Many thanks to #3-27 UFO Roundup 7/6/98 Joe Trainor
Editor and Daev Walsh for this report.

ROSWELL PHOTOGRAPHS

Bruce Maccabee comments on Marilyn Ruben�s letter in Filer's Files #26.  She
states: <The beam is not wrinkled except along the edges, which as noted
previously, was caused by the crash impact.  I am sure the English
Professionals has already seen this as well.  The magnification does not lie.
It shows what the human eye can't see.>

Macabee responds, "Marilyn says, the magnification does not lie.  However,
great magnification does not guarantee proper interpretation by the viewer.
After all, what is a picture other than light and dark areas  (some times with
color)?   It is a Rohschack test to discern some features from a highly
magnified picture.  Just because Marilyn sees brightness variations which seem
to form a recognizable shape or shapes does not mean that the actual object
photographed had those shapes.  There always is a danger of "over
interpretation" or "seeing what you want to see" in magnified pictures.
Thanks to Bruce Macabee MUFON Maryland State Director.

PLASMA

Jeff Sainio writes regarding last weeks Filer�s Files.  I find the reports of
UFOs as plasma amusing, since the minimum temperature to generate a plasma is
several thousand degrees.  As any 5th grader knows, "heat rises," so any
airborne plasma would rise quickly.  As this contradicts the evidence, plasmas
are eliminated as a possibility.  My previous comments about plasma refer to a
natural plasma source such as lighting; an artificial object, such as a metal
device generating a plasma around it, would be a different situation.  Thanks
to JSAINIO@qgraph.com.  Editors Note.  We are seeing plasmas dive, rise, fly
in all directions, go through walls without scorching them, etc.  They appear
similar to ball lightning and may surround an artificial structure.  Perhaps
we need a new name to avoid confusion.

UFO DATABASE

Larry Hatch writes that his *U* Database *U* now has over 17,160 sightings.
Each listing has a matrix of 64 "attributes" as I call them, one-bit ( yes/no)
fields, among which are several for different types of craft  by general
shape.  Among these are SCR  for saucers, disks, spheres having some visible
size, as opposed to a "round" point of light.  Then there is CIG  for Cigar,
cigarette, cylinder, or fuselage type craft.  DLT  is for Delta, triangular,
boomerang craft.    The odd rectangle, square and  pentagon get dumped here as
well.   Hexagons and higher regular polygons become "disks."   The criteria is
sharp corners and linear edges.  SUB is for submersibles.. Anything entering
or leaving bodies of water regardless of shape.   Where shape is given, that
field is activated also, since these fields are not mutually exclusive.  Here
are total counts  for all years,  and broken down by decades:
    DATES        SCR/DISKS       CIGAR      DELTA          SUBS    (total
events)
BC to 1939            178                  176                 33
19          ( 431  )
1940 - 1949            680                 155                  35
8           ( 939  )
1950 - 1959          3,079                 690                161
44         ( 4,066 )
1960 - 1969          2,160                 357                184
80         ( 2,997 )
1970 - 1979          3,002                 550                399
83         ( 4,273 )
1980 - 1989          1,020                 270               404
18          ( 1,752 )

1990 - 1998          1,393                  366               727
25         ( 2,707 )
ALL Years:        11,512               2,564           1,943             277
(17,166)
   Notes:     The high proportion of CIGARs prior to the 1940s are mainly due
to the "great airship" waves of 1896 - 1910,  mainly in the USA, Britain and
New Zealand.  Deltoids caught on in the late 1970s and have figured
prominently since.  The 1980s were the virtual doldrums in terms of numbers.
I have found no new data to refute this.  While the 1990s are "busier",  they
are not much busier. Due to "overlap" where multiple shapes were reported,
figures will not add up from left to right.  You can easily download the DEMO
version of *U* which I call *UDEMO* at http://www.flash.net/~joerit/ufo.html.
Thanks to Larry Hatch.

Please send your sightings and letters to George A. Filer at
Majorstar@aol.com.








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   Jul > Jul 10

                            Re: Curious Sighting

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 19:10:28 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:06:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Curious Sighting

> Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 11:47:41 -0500
> From: Marty Garza <laquinta@rgv.net>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Curious Sighting

> Date:          July 8, 1998

> Time:          9:09 P.M.

> Duration:      1 1/2 - 2 min.

> Location:      McAllen, TX

> No. Witnesses: 2

> No. Objects:   2

> Object
> Description:   Star/Satellite like

> Sighting Description:

<snip>

> While outside our home in south Texas I observed what at first
> appeared to be 2 satellites traveling parallel to each other in
> an east-south-east direction.  The objects were approximately 45
> degrees off the southern horizon and separated by about 2-3

<snip>

Hi Marty,

You are a very good observer.

I checked for satellites passing over you in McAllen, Texas
at 9:09 p.m. (21:09 Central Time) on July 8 and I found that
what you saw were the Hubble Space Telescope and the Gamma
Ray Observatory.  Both were as bright as stars (magnitudes
3.5 and 3.2 respectively), both had a maximum elevation of
about 50 degrees above the southern horizon and were within
a few degrees of each other (at about 21:07) and both set in
the SE.  Since the Hubble Space Telescope is about 100 km.
higher than the Gamma Ray Observatory, HST would move slower
than the GRO which would overtake it.

Nick Balaskas
Physics and Astronomy
York University









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                            Re: Curious Sighting

From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 20:40:41 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:09:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Curious Sighting


>Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 11:47:41 -0500
>From: Marty Garza <laquinta@rgv.net>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Curious Sighting

>Date:          July 8, 1998

>Time:          9:09 P.M.

>Duration:      1 1/2 - 2 min.

>Location:      McAllen, TX

>No. Witnesses: 2

>No. Objects:   2

>Object
>Description:   Star/Satellite like

>Sighting Description:

>Although not a terribly exciting event, there were aspects which
>set this apart from the mundane.

>While outside our home in south Texas I observed what at first
>appeared to be 2 satellites traveling parallel to each other in
>an east-south-east direction.

<snip>

Marty,

Saw the same here, 40 miles W. of Montreal on Friday June 12, around
11:00 PM.  First time we (my brother and I) ever saw that.

The day after, at approximately the same time, the two satellites
showed up but a bit closer to each other.

Serge Salvaille






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             Re: UFO Enthusiasts Set To Converge On Alberta Town

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 01:59:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:48:08 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Enthusiasts Set To Converge On Alberta Town


>Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 13:16:24 -0500 (CDT)
>From: Geoff G. Dittman <umdittm0@cc.UManitoba.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO Enthusiasts Set To Converge On Alberta Town

>>Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 03:03:43 -0500
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFO Enthusiasts Set To Converge On Alberta Town

><snip>

>> >"It was started as a publicity stunt, we make no bones by that,"
>> >conference organizer Paul Pelletier said of the hotline, which is
>> >bankrolled by an anonymous patron in Las Vegas.

>> BIGELOW! Damn, that guy has a long reach! Money talks, BS walks!
>> My only problem with it is that anything that Bigelow gathers in
>> terms of information is never recirculated back to the public.

><snip>

>While he does like to hoard info, the reports called in to the
>hotline however are made available to the public.  The annual Cdn.
>UFO Survey includes several dozen a year that were received from
>St. Paul.

>Geoff Dittman
>Cdn UFO Survey http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/2653

Hi Geoff,

It's heartwarming to know that _some_ of the projects
that he funds are publishing the information in a public
forum. It's my one and only complaint about Mr B.
Well, that and the fact that he backs Sims & Lier! <EG>

Thanx for the response and the info.

Peace,

John Velez, Junkyard watchdog, not too many teeth left
but bark still works and I can still bite! <G>







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                      Triangle Spotted In New Hampshire

From: archem98@bit-net.com, Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 04:05:52 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:32:41 -0400
Subject: Triangle Spotted In New Hampshire


Received via "alt.paranet.ufo" July 9.

Stig

*******

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 08:05:48 GMT
From: archem98@bit-net.com (Ready2Run)
Subject: tringle ufo spotted in New Hampshire

Last week over 200 people reported seeing a triangular craft of
enormous proportion.. including the Exeter NH chief of police. When
asked if it could have been a stealth bomber, he said, "Sure, one the
size of New Jersey. This has been big news out this way."









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                   Re: Cooper - Maccabee Adds To The Story

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 01:39:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:45:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Cooper - Maccabee Adds To The Story


>Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 16:26:02 +0200
>From: Andy Denne <aura@telekabel2.nl>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Cooper - Maccabee Adds To The Story

<snip>

>I must say that as an european, I'm quiet surprised of
>Dr. Maccabee's reaction...didn't he speak about "left pinkies"
>in one of his recent postings?

>What's going on here???

My comment came in a post regard SDI and beam weapons in space
(of which there are none) was

> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Reagan, being the
>reactionary throwback that all the liberal pinko's believed him
>to be, thought that just maybe the Soviets might lose total

The lady who first responded to my mention of "liberal pinkos"
managed to overlook my reference to readan as a "reactionary
throwback", which is a nice erudite version of what the "liberal
pinkos" called President Ray Gun. My little comment had
something disparaging for everybody.... but you (and she) only
picked up on one side of it.

Europeans may not have been aware of the extreme skepticism and
outright derision that was levelled at Reagan's idea to attempt
to build a defense against ballistic missiles. The "liberal
newsmedia" made it into a joke (Star Wars). However, I think it
is now generally agreed that the SDI program as it was carried
out created pressure on the Soviets (fear that their ballistic
missiles might no longer be a threat; realization that they
couldn't keep up with the high level of US investment in
military defensive and offensive system) and was one of the
factors, probably an important one, in the decision by Gorbachev
and others to back off from the Soviet systen of government.





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                  Whitley Streiber Responds to Jerry Black

From: Kathleen Andersons <KAnder6444@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 21:39:38 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:29:28 -0400
Subject: Whitley Streiber Responds to Jerry Black

>From: Black's Hole
>Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 09:57:31 -0400
>Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 09:57:31 -0400
>Subject: An Open Message To Whitley Strieber - Jerry Black

>http://members.xoom.com/ufobarb/jb04.html

Response from Whitley to Mr. Black

>From Whitley Strieber

First, the UFO video that I was referring to still seems
perfectly authentic to me. If the fact that it was shot 40 miles
from Gulf Breeze somehow turns it into a hoax, I would be
fascinated to know why.

Second, I have had one telephone conversation with Ed Walters in
ten years. I have never met him personally, to my knowledge.
However, I do believe that his pictures were authentic because I
know another witness, a retired Marine fighter pilot whom I would
trust with my life, who saw the object a couple of days before
Walters first observed it.

Third, I am sick of people challenging me in stupid ways. The two
lie detector tests that I had control over are fully disclosed in
my earlier books, and have been discussed by Ed Conroy in his
book Report on Communion. The other two were administered on
behalf of media organizations. One, administered on behalf of the
BBC, was the reason that I was allowed to discuss Communion on
BBC programming in 1988. Had I failed it, they did not plan to
allow me on. The second was a voice-stress test administered
without my knowledge and discussed on a television program called
Contact.

All of this information is readily accessible to any competent
researcher. The fact that Mr. Black appears to know none of it, I
believe, speaks for itself.

Whitley Strieber







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                  Obituary For Leader In Search For ET Life

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 04:34:18 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:36:33 -0400
Subject: Obituary For Leader In Search For ET Life


>From the Boston Globe via the Miami Herald. URL:

http://www.herald.com:80/florida/digdocs/019017.htm

Stig


*******



Published Thursday, July 9, 1998, in the Miami Herald


Michael Papagiannis, astronomer, author


The Boston Globe


Michael D. Papagiannis led an international effort to find intelligent
extraterrestrial life. He has died of complications from Alzheimer's
disease in Naple, before that effort bore fruit. He was 65.

Papagiannis was the former director of the International Astronomical
Union's commission on the search for extraterrestrial life, a search
conducted primarily by radio, listening for transmissions from outside
our solar system.

In a story published in the January 1983 issue of Boston magazine, he
discussed the difficulty of the task.

"The problem is colossal," he said. "There are millions of stars to aim
at, and we have no idea at what frequency someone might be sending us
signals. Imagine driving your car in another state and trying to tune
in to a radio station you like, and then multiply this by a factor of a
billion or more and you'll have an idea of what we're up against."

He was born in Athens, where he graduated from the National Polytechnic
University. He earned a master's degree in physics at the University of
Virginia and a doctorate in physics and astronomy at Harvard University.

He wrote several books, including Space Physics and Space Astronomy=BF
and Strategies for the Search for Life in the Universe, and was editor
of Search for Extraterrestrial Life: Recent Developments.

He taught at Boston University from 1964 until his retirement in 1994
and was chairman of its astronomy department from 1969 to 1982. When he
retired, the astronomy library at the school was named in his honor.

He leaves his wife, Elizabeth Haines-Papagiannis; his first wife, Mary
Hutton; a son, Dimitrios, of Pasadena, Calif.; and a daughter,
Christina McCauley of Weymouth, Mass.


Copyright =A9 1998 The Miami Herald








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                Impact Zone Of Greenland Meteorite Confirmed

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 04:14:01 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:35:39 -0400
Subject: Impact Zone Of Greenland Meteorite Confirmed


>From DR Online (Radio Denmark Online) via CNN, July 8. URL:

http://cnn.com/TECH/space/9807/08/metorite.dust/index.html

Stig


*******


Impact zone of giant meteorite confirmed


(DR Online) -- Following microscopic analysis of snow-samples
taken last week, the impact zone of the giant meteorite that hit
southern Greenland last December has been located.

Last week, astronomer Holger Pedersen and geophysicist Torben
Risbo of the University of Copenhagen conducted a preliminary
field investigation on the southwestern Greenland ice cap.

Collecting snow samples by helicopter, they hoped to find traces
of meteorite dust left in the snow covering the glaciers. Some
40 samples were taken along 3 different lines giving a very
preliminary profile of the snow-masses covering the glacier,
where they scientists hope to find the meteorite -- If it did
not evaporate during entry into the.

The samples were taken to the Laboratory of the Arctic Station
at Qeqertarsuaq, Greenland, for microscopic analysis by Risbo
and revealed definite signs of meteoritic substance.
Sub-millimeter size particles that look like round brown glass,
with little tails of glass trailing behind them, were found.
Other particles seem to give clues as to the crystal-structure
of the meteorite, but this can't be confirmed until analysis has
been conducted with an electron microscope.

A major field expedition on foot and by helicopter into the
impact zone planned for the end of this month may have to be
pushed forward. It now seems important to collect a much bigger
amount of snow samples in order to narrow down the area to be
investigated. Also it can't be ruled out that the meteorite, big
as it was, completely evaporated
during entry, and therefore the only traces will be just dust.


Related stories:

*Siberia believed to be site of largest meteor impact on Earth -
July 3, 1998

*Tomorrow/Today: Listening for asteroids - July 2, 1998


Related sites:

Note: Pages will open in a new browser window

*DR Online


External sites are not
endorsed by CNN Interactive.


=A9 1998 Cable News Network, Inc.






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                             Chat with Max Burns

From: #ufo/esp channel <pjb@staffs.softnet.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:23:00 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:51:50 -0400
Subject: Chat with Max Burns


Max Burns has investigated reports of a Flying Triangle near
Sheffield in the UK. His conclusions have become a matter of
heated debate in mailing lists. He will be our guest on IRC
Undernet channel #ufo/esp on Sunday 12th July at 11pm UK time
(6pm US Eastern Time, 3pm US Pacific Time) to answer your
questions.

You are welcome to join us.

Max's report on the incident is available at

http://www.soft.net.uk/staffs/ufoesp/maxreport.html

For those unfamiliar with IRC, there is information on how to
access #ufo/esp on the channel home page at

http://www.soft.net.uk/staffs/ufoesp/

Best,
peterre (temporary #ufo/esp channel manager)





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                                Info Request

From: Lydia <zuzu@highway.com.br>
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:38:47 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:05:42 -0400
Subject: Info Request


Dear friends,

I am Brazilian. I love this list and I've learned much in it.
Now, I am engaged in a study about UFOs lenticular-shaped,
white, opaque ou transparent, huge, as the same of the Valentim
Akuratov's case that happened on Groenland but I don't Know when
it happened.

I am particularly interested on this Valentim's case. Is anyone
here that could help me?

Many thanks,

Lydia

zuzu@highway.com.br







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                             Re: Sturrock Report

From: John Rimmer <j_rimmer@library.croydon.gov.uk>
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 13:56:18 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:14:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Sturrock Report

Again, my apologies for not being able to quote directly from
previous posts.

[quotes inserted by Moderator --ebk]

>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
>To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Sturrock Report
>Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 15:31:23 -0400

>>Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 11:16:13 +0100
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>From: John Rimmer <j_rimmer@library.croydon.gov.uk>
>>Subject: Sturrock Report

>> Also BTW, still no response to Harney's attack on Klass's
>> dismissal of the
>> Travis Walton abduction. Come on you guys, give the chap a hand!

>John,

>You seem to think that this is about taking sides. "Our" side,
>you seem to think, should be glad that someone on "your" side
>acknowledges one of "our" points.

>But that's not the issue. I hope my praise of Peter Brooksmith's
>Occam's Razor post some time ago shows how eagerly I welcome
>serious thinking by those I disagree with.

>Harney's piece, however, wasn't serious, because he hadn't done
>his research. That was the problem with it. That's why Jerry
>Clark and others objected so much.

>Harney clearly had little idea of who Jerry is or what he's
>written. He uncritically accepted Phil Klass's very old analysis
>of the RB-47 case, which is, very simply, bad journalism.
>Klass's analysis appears in a book published in 1974, for God's
>sake. Before Harney publishes anything that accepts Klass as
>gospel, it's his responsibility to ask if any new information or
>analysis has surfaced in the past 24 years. I could get fired
>from some of my professional journalistic jobs for not doing
>something like that.

>So when Harney says Phil's debunking of the Walton case is
>mistaken, I'm not impressed. What's his source for that? Maybe
>he has no more idea of what he's talking about here than he does
>when he goes on about Jerry or about the RB-47 case.

>Let me repeat. I'm not keeping track of which side scores more
>points, and I'm not impressed with ignorant or unintelligent
>writing, no matter whose side it takes.

>Greg Sandow

I agree entirely with Greg Sandow that discussion of Sturrock
should not be a question of taking sides, especially since,
behind the rhetoric, we all seem to be more or less agreed on
its conclusions. It is certainly a more "media friendly"
document than other UFO related reports in the past. There is
certainly no need for comments such as PSH proponents "taking it
in the chops"!

It is unfortunate that the more recent investigation of the
RB-47 case does not seem to be available in the UK yet. Perhaps
Jerry could send a copy to us?

As far as Harney's rebuttal of Klass on Walton, I am not putting
it forward as a point scoring exercise, but simply as a request
for comment and information. One of the problems for the 'ETH as
an Option' (I will no longer call them ETH-proponents) faction
is that the abduction scenario has made part of their argument
rather embarrasing. I note that in the ten cases which Greg did,
bravely, put forward on this list, there was (I think, I don't
have back listings easily accessible at the moment) not one
abduction case. I fully understand why, but the problem is that
the general public, and for this purpose editors of popular
science journals such as New Scientist are no better informed
than the general public, do see the abduction stories as being a
major part of the ETH 'evidence'.

So when even a hard-bitten PSHer like John Harney finds an
abduction case puzzling, and is prepared to enter into a heated
correspondence with PJK about it, surely it is not unreasonable
to ask for a bit of back-up from his ufological coevals? Please
re-read the piece in Magonia ETH Bulletin and let's have your
comments.

Despite Jerry's continued declarations that PSH ufology is
simply debunking with a smiley-mask, they are quite different
things. I feel however that I have tested you patience quite
enough for the moment, but it is a question I may (EBK willing)
return to in the future when I am back on line in my own right
and can reply more immediately.

Yours for Liberty

John Rimmer
Magonia (still just about) On-Line
www.magonia.demon.co.uk
"The flagship of psycho-social ufology" - Jerome Clark





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                       Sheffield and Flying Triangles

From: Max Burns <AlienHype1@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:13:54 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:33:39 -0400
Subject: Sheffield and Flying Triangles


I think the focus seems to have been shifted by some onto the
Tornado jet aspect of this incident..Let us not forget that
there are five very clear witneses to the flying triangle. which
was there and was sighted by a number of people who are not my
friends, and only know me because of my investigation into this
incident.

I feel that these questions need an answer.

A) Why would they be test flown, low, over heavily built up
areas of the U.K?  Such an aircraft would be designated 'Top
Secret' and normally flown from establishments such as Boscombe
Down.

B) If they are Stealth aircraft, why would they fly around at
night, illuminated like "Christmas Trees" or alternatively, why
would they fly close to airports, without any navigation or
strobe lights?

C) If they were undertaking a normal night flying test program,
why would they undertake such irresponsible behavior as to
silently hover near an isolated witness or car full of
witnesses, far from any airfield?

D) It has been said that a triangle is an excellent design for
flight and this could explain their design, but what could
explain the FT's 'broad side first' movement, seen by numerous
witnesses?

E) If they are under Air Traffic Control in the U.K, why have
they been observed frequently flying over Nuclear Power
Stations, a restricted 'no flying' area?

F) Could the UK afford to develop such a Stealth aircraft as the
'Flying Triangle', when the British Aircraft industry currently
has to co-operate with several other countries to develop the
'Eurofighter'. Without this
co-operation the UK couldn't afford to proceed alone.

G) It is claimed that the 'Flying Triangle' is a product of the
British Aerospace Establishment at Warton, Lancs. If this is the
case, why was Simon Lewis of the North Lancashire UFO
Investigation Group, invited to address a meeting of British
Aerospace engineers at Warton to explain what the 'Flying
Triangle' thing is all about. They had heard of the huge FT
craft and exclaimed "Its not ours!" However this does not
preclude the possibility that a smaller 'Stealth' triangular
craft may be undertaking flying trials over the UK

H) If the FT was due to exercise in Belgium air space during the
period 1989/90, why did the Belgium Air Force have no knowledge
of the FT flight plan? Why was it necessary for the Belgium Air
Force to ' scramble' a group of F16's to intercept the 'Flying
Triangles'?

I) We have had reports of FT's dating back to the mid-50's, why
hasn't the technology been revealed by now? The American
authorities wasted no time in disclosing the use of Stealth
aircraft in the recent Gulf War.

J) If the FT is British (or American) what is it doing flying
around Japan, Guatemala, Belgium, Spain, Canada, Brazil etc.?

K) Are we being confronted with both a huge extra-terrestrial
craft and a smaller military Stealth development

With regard to the Sheffield incident

As to whether this triangle was ET or Terrestrial in nature I
can only call it on how I see it, whether it ET or Terrestrial
or the jury is still out..

Comments please

Alienhype1@aol.com

Max Burns





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                              'Alien Interview'

From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 05:34:03 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:58:36 -0400
Subject: 'Alien Interview'


Dear UpDates,

Excuse my temporary ignorance but what is the situation regarding
the 'Alien Interview' video now available in the shops? Several
members of our Society are getting excited about it but it looks
typically questionable.

The video itself is over-dramatic and replete with all the
expected 'expert opinion' and fake emotion.


DNI? I thought it was ONI - Office of Naval Intelligence.

Tim Matthews - Lancashire UFO Society.





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                   Flying Triangles - Unanwsered Questions

From: Roy Hale <roy_hale@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:41:15 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 13:04:51 -0400
Subject: Flying Triangles - Unanwsered Questions


>From: Max Burns <AlienHype1@aol.com>
>Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:13:54 EDT
>To: Updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Sheffield and Flying Triangles

I firmly agree with Max Burns' latest posting.

In mid July 1996 I had the chance to view, the F.T. at very
close quarters. I will give you a brief summary, of the event
but you can read my full sighting, in the latest edition of our
group Magazine, 'Down To Earth' all enquiries to the above
e-mail address.

I was on my way to pay a visit to my brother, who lives in
Cambridgeshire, it was a clear summers evening just turning
dark, about 5.-5.10pm. I noticed from the corner of my eye, a
huge red rectangular shaped light. I mean huge. The thing was, I
was not the only car on the road, at the time, it was quite busy
for a country road.

No one else seemed to notice the Craft, as it sat hovering over
the field to my right. It began to turn very slowly, so that I
could see more of its shape.

It was enormous in size and left me with the feeling, that this
was nothing we could own. Remember I am an investigator on UFOs,
and this really sent a chill up my spine.

There were two scaffold tube like poles attached, on either side
with a white light in the middle of the craft. The poles were
covered in a grid-mesh type design, ( A Full Artist Impression
Of This F.T. Can be seen in this issue)there was a kind of
protruberence, on the top with the huge red rectangular light on
the back.

This light would pulse on about, every 5 to 10 seconds. there
was no sound from the craft, as it silently began to drift away
from me, over the fields. It was about 150 to 200ft in the air,
totally black, apart from the mentioned lights.

After a few minutes of me viewing the object,it then began to
slowly move away, over the fields, before dissapearing out of
sight.

(Q): If this was a military craft, why was it flying so low over
the roads, which were quite busy at the time?.

(Q):Why did no one else notice this enormous craft?.

(Q):This craft has been seen over the local reservoirs, and
local Town centers, for some years, what would the Military be
doing, taking this kind of action?.

(Q): Are we niaeve enough to think that the Authorities, are
going to admit of any action that these unknown craft may be
carrying out?.

(Q): There has been a world-wide cover of the UFO facts for over
half a Century, do we really believe our governments to now come
clean and admit, the full story?. (I dont think so)..

Our kind people at the MOD here in the UK are well versed in the
line of Fobbing ufologists off, try dropping them a line, and
then receive the usual pre-typed denial.

What i saw on that day was spectacular, and I am not convinced
this is Military at all.

For more details on this sighting, catch me on the above number.

                      Regards
                       Roy





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                      Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 98 11:56:02 PDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 13:54:41 -0400
Subject: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'


> From: RobIrving@aol.com
> Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:01:58 EDT
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'
> >Date: Tue, 07 Jul 98 09:23:03 PDT

> Jerry,

> >Rob, I confess that I don't understand much of the above.

> Let me explain. Earlier you informed us that "Festinger's ideas
> about cognitive dissonance have been pretty well challenged in
> the sociology of religion literature". I assumed from this that
> you were familiar with his ideas on cognitive dissonance. It's a
> fair assumption, I feel, because you were responding to my
> reference to Festinger's Theory of Cognitive Dissonance.

> Evidently you are not familiar with it at all, and seem to
> believe that his earlier co-authored study 'When Prophesy Fails'
> is the theory. In fact it was merely a derivative of it,

Oh my, I think we're talking about two different things here. I
am, of course, well aware of what cognitive dissonance is. What
I thought we were talking about is Festinger's involvement in
the study of prophetic saucer groups. I have little interest in
Festinger beyond When Prophecy Fails, not only because it deals
with a subject of concern to me but also because I have a good
friend who's a scholar in this area, and who told me long ago
that Festinger's ideas have been challenged. He even wrote a
paper which was published in the scholarly literature some years
ago. His paper references others, copies of which I either have
or am obtaining.

> Before everyone accepted your claim that Festinger's theory -
> which I believe in the main is quite relevant to this
> discussion, and to ufology in general - had been successfully
> challenged, and therefore easily dismissed, I thought that it
> was important to establish that you were misinforming us.

My impression all along has been that you are using Festinger
simply as a stick with which to beat all who are interested in
UFOs, and I do not recall your even responding to my complaint
that you lump everybody together. So let me try one more time:

Do you see any significant difference between, say, Dorothy
Martin and Isabel Davis?

> Aside from all this I'm wary of your dismissal anyway. Popper
> has been "pretty well challenged" by sociologists of science, as
> have all other philosophers of science at some time... So? Your
> dismissal suggests there is no value to be found in WPF.

I specifically stated that When Prophecy Fails is a good book
well worth reading, even if there is at least one staggering and
embarrassing historical error in it. As I have stated
repeatedly, this error touches directly on the thesis the book
is advancing. Therefore, Prophecy ought to be read not as a
final word on the dynamics of apocalyptic movements but as a
great story about one specific group at one specific time. It is
the lessons that Festinger, et al., draw that need to be treated
with a healthy degree of skepticism. It is also necessary to
know, as practically nobody who's written on that book knows
(including you, I suspect), that the story chronicled in that
book did not end in early 1955. I have a forthcoming Fortean
Times piece telling some of the rest of it.

> Debunkers are often accused of 'throwing the baby out with the
> bathwater' but aren't you doing just that? Just as parallels can
> be found in ufology to Festinger's theory of CD, they can be
> found to WPF.

See my words immediately above. In any event, I don't see any
lessons for, or parallels to, ufology in Festinger's book, which
isn't about ufology at all. It's about a saucerian group
oriented toward the contactee message and occult doctrine. The
fact that you seem to think this is the same as ufology only
confirms, alas, my suspicions about your approach.

> Nor am I an expert on any secret histories of the Sabbatai or
> the Millerite movement.

Neither am I.

> My best guess is that you're referring
> to the authors' inclusion of immediate events post-Crucifixion.

Nope.


Cheers,

Jerry Clark






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                  Kokomo, Indiana UFO Sighting: June, 1998

From: Kenny Young <task@fuse.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 15:20:23 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 16:42:50 -0400
Subject: Kokomo, Indiana UFO Sighting: June, 1998

Kokomo, IN (Howard County)
Between June 20 & 25, 1998 - From 10:30 to 11:00 a.m.

A resident of Kokomo, Indiana submitted a UFO report by e-mail
on July 10, 1998. A follow-up question and answer session with
the witness was undertaken to acquire more details of the
happening.

On an undetermined date between June 20 and 25, two witnesses
reportedly observed three star-like objects to the southwest of
their vantage point in Kokomo, Indiana. Their color was said to
be that of "plain christmas tree lights," and they were
described as "really bright." According to the reportee, the
three objects were situated in a "diagonal sort of
connect-the-dot type of thing."

The object in the center was the brightest, and exhibited some
motion. Airplanes or some type of aircraft was visually spotted
flying around the objects, each aircraft having a flashing red
light.

The reportee also witnessed an earlier sighting of same or
similar objects in the western sky between May 27 and June 3.

Observed during the first sighting was what looked like a bright
blue star in the southwestern sky, from the observer's vantage
point in Kokomo. The witness retrieved some binoculars, thinking
it unusual to see a 'big blue star.'

Through binoculars, the witness reportedly observed a sphere of
glowing red, blue and green light. He states: "I don't know if
all stars look like that when you look at them through
binoculars, but the other "stars" we looked at didnt really
match up.

A second object was reported in the southwest skies the same
night, where more airplanes were again said to have been flying
in the area.

There was no animal reaction noted, nor was any sound heard.

A UFO sighting reported from McAllen, Texas on July 8 of similar
description may have been caused by the Hubble Space Telescope
and the Gamma Ray Observatory, according to Mr. Nick Balaskas of
the Physics and Astronomy Department of York University. Both
objects sighted over South Texas on July 8 were as bright as
stars (magnitudes 3.5 and 3.2 respectively), both had a maximum
elevation of about 50 degrees above the southern horizon and
were within a few degrees of each other (at about 21:07) and
both set in the SE.

40 miles west of Montreal on Friday June 12, the same or similar
reported objects were sighted around 11:00 PM. according to
Serge Salvaille, who reported the observation on the internet.

The Kokomo sightings may also be explained as satellites spotted
high above. The visual observation of airplanes in the area may
have been construed by the witness to be interacting with the
object, but the reportee may have been unaware of the distance
separating the objects due to his limited plain of reference.

The Kokomo, Indiana vicinity is 88-miles southeast of
Valparaiso, Indiana, where two separate UFO sightings were
reported on June 20, also within a similar time-frame. The
witness to the Kokomo objects did not disclose his name in the
process of forwarding this UFO
report or follow-up questions, despite assurances of anonymity.

Filed:
July 10, 1998
Kenny Young
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/task/





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   Jul > Jul 10

                             Re: Sturrock Report

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 98 12:31:11 PDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 16:27:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Sturrock Report


> Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 11:16:13 +0100
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> From: John Rimmer <j_rimmer@library.croydon.gov.uk>
> Subject: Sturrock Report

> As Jerry comments, yes I am temporarily off-line and I am having
> to keep up with UpDates via the 'Hundred Last Messages' service
> on a borrowed computer, so my responses are not as fast or
> frequent as I (if no one else) would like!

> I'm sorry if I thought that Jerry et. al. welcomed the Sturrock
> Report as an 'endorsement' of the ETH. However its findings were
> welcomed with whoops of joy by Jerry and the ETHers and with the
> clear implication that it was bad news for the PSH gang - "taken
> it in the chops" in Mr Clark's elegant phrase.

John, you're a good guy, and I want to stress that whatever
disagreement we have, it is not a personal thing.  Okay?

That said, what is the source of your obsession with my
open-mindedness about the ETH? If someone who had never read my
writings were to take as gospel your characterization of them,
he or she would think that I was talking spaceships every time
my mouth opened or my fingers hit the keyboard. In fact, as I
have stated over and over and over again, I consider the ETH
simply a reasonable provisional theory for a certain class of
UFO reports. It is not yet proved, and it is not something I
have nearly the obsession with that you and your friends have
with bashing it or pushing the PSH. I simply do not share your
fascination with final explanations, and so I have written
little about the ETH as such. (The long entry on the ETH and
ufology in the new UFO Encyclopedia is simply a history of its
treatment and evolution as documented in the UFO literature
since Fort.) You can look far and wide, and you will find
nowhere in my writing a personal Extraterrestrial Hypothesis.

For reasons I have written about at length, I consider the PSH a
seriously inadequate approach, and the more I read of it, the
more convinced I am of the correctness of this analysis. What I
am concerned with, however, is not the ETH but such matters as
the history of the UFO phenomenon, the history of ufology, and
the need for the sort of sober scientific study that the
Sturrock panel advocates and that ufology, in its best moments,
practices.

I think you are looking at everything through a very narrow
lens. You seem to think I am as committed to a final explanation
as you are. What exasperates me about the PSH (among other
things) is its complacent assumption that we already have all
the important answers, when the reality, to every available
appearance, is quite the opposite.

(What's even more annoying, and sometimes amusing, is the
PSHers' smug certainty that anybody who disagrees with them is
wrong and therefore must be diagnosed. I read recently in
Magonia, for example, that I advocate the ETH because I am
middle class and conformist, characterizations which nspired no
end of hilarity among friends to whom I showed the words.
[Apparently the evidence here is that I have short hair and have
been photographed on occasion in a suit.] Is it any wonder I
don't take seriously PSHers' even more undocumented and obtuse
speculations about the characters and motivations of witnesses?)

The real dispute between us is not between you as PSH advocate
and me as ETH proponent (in that sense you are far more believer
than I); it's between you as somebody who thinks he has the
essential answers and me as somebody who's still out there
looking for them.

Cheers,


Jerry Clark






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   Jul > Jul 10

                        UFOR - Uri Geller on 'Aviary'

From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org>
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 13:32:01 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 16:49:41 -0400
Subject: UFOR - Uri Geller on 'Aviary'


From: Blue Resonant Human <density4@cts.com>

::: Uri Geller on The Aviary :::
[from the London Times, July 1 1998]

I HAVE been discussing my work in the 1970s with the CIA a
little more openly for the past few weeks. The Men In Black
haven't come round yet, so I'll take another step into the deep
waters - and recommend you log on to
http://www.brotherblue.org/brethren/bbaviary.htm

The Aviary is an informal network of government and military
officials in America who share a fascination with UFOs. Its 12
members, so the conspiracy theory goes, are dedicated to
creating a smokescreen around CIA misuse of extra-terrestrial
technology.

The site opens in macabre fashion with a picture of a huge
pterodactyl and a blood-curdling quotation from Revelations
under the heading: "Dark Disciples of Diabolical
Disinformation". The introduction announces the members as
"spooks who often work at cross-purposes and frankly don't even
get along with each other all that well. Extremely weird birds."

I can confirm these 12 exist, and their long-standing obsession
with alien science is genuine. I worked closely with Hal
Puthoff, for instance, whose Aviary codename is allegedly "Owl".
His Institute for Advanced Research in Austin, Texas, claims to
extract energy from vacuums. Is this a technique derived from
captured UFOs?

Ron Pandolfi, the Aviary's "Pelican", is involved in ET
disinformation. He heads the CIA's Weird Desk, which fields UFO
sightings and inquiries from the public. Many of his statements
contradict facts I know to be accurate. But no one should expect
a secret service man to tell the whole truth, the whole time.

Dale Graff, or "Raven", was director of Project Stargate,
training spies to project their minds into enemy territory and
"remote-view" military bases.

One bird is said to be experimenting with Aleister Crowley's
black magic rituals, using twisted mind-power to induce heart
attacks or strokes in humans.

I was approached 20 years ago by a government agency
representative proposing psychic experiments to stop the heart
of a pig. I stared him in the face and a name flashed across my
mind: KGB director Yuri Andropov. Could some of the birds in the
Aviary have similar ideas?

Visit my website at http://www.urigeller.com and
e-mail me aturigeller@compuserve.com
http://www.sunday-times.co.uk:80/news/pages/tim/98/07/01/timintint01013.html
?1028490






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   Jul > Jul 10

                     Re: Sheffield and Flying Triangles

From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 07:09:32 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 16:37:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Sheffield and Flying Triangles


>From: Max Burns <AlienHype1@aol.com>
>Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:13:54 EDT
>To: Updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Sheffield and Flying Triangles

>I think the focus seems to have been shifted by some onto the
>Tornado jet aspect of this incident..Let us not forget that
>there are five very clear witneses to the flying triangle. which
>was there and was sighted by a number of people who are not my
>friends, and only know me because of my investigation into this
>incident.

>I feel that these questions need an answer.

>A) Why would they be test flown, low, over heavily built up
>areas of the U.K?  Such an aircraft would be designated 'Top
>Secret' and normally flown from establishments such as Boscombe
>Down.

In the UK it would be designated 'Most Secret' which it most
certainly is/has been.

There have been many sightings in and around RAF Boscombe Down.
These have featured in a number of military aviation magazines.
RNAS Yeovilton is also a focal point. The US Navy has a track
record of black programmes stretching back over 50 years and it
has been responsible for many of the 'unknowns' within the UFO
literature.

>B) If they are Stealth aircraft, why would they fly around at
>night, illuminated like "Christmas Trees" or alternatively, why
>would they fly close to airports, without any navigation or
>strobe lights?

You argue later that they are illuminated like Christmas trees -
so which are they - lit or unlit?!

Who says that these are specifically 'stealth' aircraft? I doubt
that Max knows much about stealth.

I have investigated over 100 'triangle' cases and on many
occasions these have had standard lighting patterns. Check out
Tony Gonsalves report on the Hudson Valley flap..........

>C) If they were undertaking a normal night flying test program,
>why would they undertake such irresponsible behavior as to
>silently hover near an isolated witness or car full of
>witnesses, far from any airfield?

What do you mean "normal night flying test programme"? In many
areas there are no restrictions up to app. 2,000ft. Many
triangles are NOT silent and in any case we know that some of
them are large LTA platforms.The use of advanced propellers
enables good maneuverability and near-silent operation. In the
UK at least, it is not far from one airfield to another....

On the question of noise, this could be simply explained by
prevailing weather conditions and/or wind direction.

>D) It has been said that a triangle is an excellent design for
>flight and this could explain their design, but what could
>explain the FT's 'broad side first' movement, seen by numerous
>witnesses?

'Broad side first' seen on a couple of occasions and almost
certainly further evidence of the inability of witnesses to get
their reports straight. I saw a report of this in Fowler's
document - and remain unimpressed. Having said that, if you did
some effective research you would know that the 1950s 'Silver
Bug' project allowed for similar motion in flight....edge-on
operation etc.

>E) If they are under Air Traffic Control in the U.K, why have
>they been observed frequently flying over Nuclear Power
>Stations, a restricted 'no flying' area?

This argument has already been fought and won. There is NO
evidence to suggest that these things have been flying near such
facilities (at least in the UK - Indian Point was an interesting
business and is dealt with in my book). A couple of convenient
inventions have added to the myth.....In fact, despite the fact
that Sizewell is supposedly a focus for these illegal
visitations going back several years nobody has one photograph
or second of video footage to substantiate these claims. In
another case the North Lancs 'group' filmed some lights in a
triangular pattern (no evidence of an actual craft of course)
and showed this in public in 1995. The footage was filmed 3
miles from a Nuclear power station and was said to have 'flown
towards Heysham Nuclear Power Station'. This is not true and
there is no evidence to substantiate the claim. In any case, the
group knew about this sighting in advance because I was there at
the meeting when they discussed filming it!

>F) Could the UK afford to develop such a Stealth aircraft as the
>'Flying Triangle', when the British Aircraft industry currently
>has to co-operate with several other countries to develop the
>'Eurofighter'. Without this
>co-operation the UK couldn't afford to proceed alone.

Given that the funding would be related to a classified defence
project then the obvious answer is yes. British Aerospace, in
conjunction with Lockheed-Martin, cooperated in the construction
of the Special Projects Site at Warton, situated on the Southern
tip of the airfield and well away from the other goings-on...

Eurofighter is all about jobs. I'd have some F-22's if I was
making the choice.

Check out your UKUSA history....

'Jane's' reports at least =A3100 million spent on facilities to
1996. This is most likely a joint UK-USA project. How much do
you think a couple of prototypes would cost?

Why is hovering seen to be such a big deal?

>G) It is claimed that the 'Flying Triangle' is a product of the
>British Aerospace Establishment at Warton, Lancs. If this is the
>case, why was Simon Lewis of the North Lancashire UFO
>Investigation Group, invited to address a meeting of British
>Aerospace engineers at Warton to explain what the 'Flying
>Triangle' thing is all about. They had heard of the huge FT
>craft and exclaimed "Its not ours!" However this does not
>preclude the possibility that a smaller 'Stealth' triangular
>craft may be undertaking flying trials over the UK

The big lie from Max. I have claimed that SOME of the smaller
FTs have been built there.

Why is this? Because BAe ADMITTED in public that they were
working on advanced stealth and UAV projects. The work is
mentioned in articles by Jane's Defence Weekly and Jane's
Military Aircraft in the last three years. Not to mention the
many sightings in and around the base including those made by
ex-RAF personnel. I saw it too. Check out my book.

What about the frequent visits to my Lancashire UFO Society
meetings by BAe personnel, as witnessed by several Northern
Ufologists?

As to Simon Lewis, he like Max and other so-called 'researchers'
knows very little. Have they ever heard of 'need-to-know',
compartmentation, security and classification? They have failed
to understand that all too many Ufologists are useful idiots
whose convenient fascination for the 'alien' clouds the issue
totally. Luckily, nobody in the North West believes that these
are anything other than terrestrial craft.

The public seems to understand this better than the average
Ufologist.....

Lewis hardly had access to the restricted areas at Warton!

In any case, I have spoken, as have military aviation
researchers, to people involved in the stealth programme in the
UK. They all say the same thing. That there is an aircraft in
the air already.

>H) If the FT was due to exercise in Belgium air space during the
>period 1989/90, why did the Belgium Air Force have no knowledge
>of the FT flight plan? Why was it necessary for the Belgium Air
>Force to ' scramble' a group of F16's to intercept the 'Flying
>Triangles'?

Same thing. Best to try it out in Belgium. The FT actually flew
from the UK and as I have pointed out time and time again, there
was no relationship between the object seen at low level and the
so-called 'UFO' performing 'amazing maneuvers' and playing catch
with the two Belgian AF interceptors. Their radar systems were
faulty and they locked onto each other. Check out van Utrecht's
research with which I (75%) concur...

The pilots never actually saw the UFO did they?

The whole thing was badly handled by the Belgian AF and they
were leaned on by the US - hence all those intel' docs
indicating US interest. What better way to conduct a
psychological warfare operation than use one of their LTA
vehicles?

Note that the MOD via Nick Pope conducted its' own small
campaign of misinformation by allowing him to pontificate about
'alien spacecraft'. In fact, Pope emerged onto the scene in 1993
- at the same time that we experienced the new wave of triangle
sightings - in order to deny UK government involvement in the
joint UK-USA programme and to direct attention away from the
reality of terrestrial technologies.....

>I) We have had reports of FT's dating back to the mid-50's, why
>hasn't the technology been revealed by now? The American
>authorities wasted no time in disclosing the use of Stealth
>aircraft in the recent Gulf War.

Many of the delta-wing projects were derived from German
technology and I suspect a little embarrassment re; use of
ex-nazi scientists via 'Paperclip'.

I do Jack Northrop an injustice; German-American technology!

Often, these things (postwar Horten wings) were not developed
through to the operational stage. In addition, there is
interservice rivalry to consider as well as the fact that once
something is classified it can remain so for years.

Take for example the CIC documents released in 1994 (a wait of
some 47 years), which you should read, which tell us that the
Horten wings and other German advanced designs were being
developed in the US and reported as 'flying saucers'. Check out
the similarity between the Horten parabola and Ken Arnold's
drawings of his June 24th 1947 saucer sighting.....

And then there is the USAF Intelligence document 100-203-79
which states that Horten flying wings (tested in the US from
1947) 'most closely resemble' the 'flying saucers' reported by
both civilian and military personnel.

>J) If the FT is British (or American) what is it doing flying
>around Japan, Guatemala, Belgium, Spain, Canada, Brazil etc.?

The US has bases and interest around the world does it not?
Remember that at least 9 out of 10 sightings are
misidentifications in any case. Three lights in a tri pattern is
not a triangular 'UFO'.

Spot the coincidence - flashpoint North Korea - triangles
sighted over Korea and Japan and other places.

>K) Are we being confronted with both a huge extra-terrestrial
>craft and a smaller military Stealth development

Afraid not, Max. The larger triangles are actually not as
advanced and relate to lighter-than-air technologies - designed
from 1965 by the way.....

>With regard to the Sheffield incident

Which we know was not really an incident at all...

>As to whether this triangle was ET or Terrestrial in nature I
>can only call it on how I see it, whether it ET or Terrestrial
>or the jury is still out..

No, Max. The Ufologists are still denying the reality of the
situation and the intelligence services are pissing themselves
laughing - especially at you.







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   Jul > Jul 10

                   Re: Cooper - Maccabee Adds To The Stor

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 98 15:57:15 PDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 18:03:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Cooper - Maccabee Adds To The Stor


>Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 16:26:02 +0200
>From: Andy Denne <aura@telekabel2.nl>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Cooper - Maccabee Adds To The Story

>>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Cooper - Maccabee Adds To The Story
>>Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 12:50:32 -0400

>>>Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 00:03:50 -0400
>>>From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>>>Subject: UFO UpDate: William Cooper Taking On Authorities
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>>Oh, yes, I might point out the 'Behold A Pale Horse' (which
>>>should be titled 'Behind A Pale Horse' or some such) is Cooper's
>>>"Mein Kampf". And I'm in there, along with most other
>>>ufologists, as a nasty government agent out to screw Cooper and
>>>freedom loving people all over the world. Cooper's motto...

>>"Behold A Pale Horse" includes the full text of the Protocols of
>>the Elders of Zion, a vicious anti-Semitic document forged, if I
>>remember correctly, by the Czarist secret police. Cooper
>>subsequently (again if I remember correctly) said it really
>>wasn't about Jews, although of course it purports to be a secret
>>Jewish document detailing plans for various atrocities.

>That's what I thought! And I wonder how one can read Cooper
>without noticing the right-winged, (sometimes downright fascistic)
>ideology he's so full off.

>I must say that as an european, I'm quiet surprised of
>Dr. Maccabee's reaction...didn't he speak about "left pinkies"
>in one of his recent postings?

What in the world would make you think that Bruce Maccabee would
be attracted to, or find anything credible in, Cooper's lunacy
and fascism?  And don't you -- "as an european" -- recognize
humor when you see it?  Bruce used the phrase "left pinko" (not
"pinkie"; that's your little finger) in a comic, sarcastic
sense.

Jerry Clark





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   Jul > Jul 10

                         Re: The Case For Humanoids

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 98 15:44:14 PDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 17:53:12 -0400
Subject: Re: The Case For Humanoids


>Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 22:59:19 +0100
>To: updates@mail.globalserve.net
>From: Mark Pilkington <m.pilkington@virgin.net>
>Subject: The Case For Humanoids

>The P.L.A. Driftwood International Conspiracy Cartel's computer
>is temporarily out of action, so Mark Pilkington has kindly
>agreed to post this on our behalf.

>John Rimmer writes:

>In recent postings on this list, Jerry Clark has made a great
>deal of noise about the work of Michael Swords. Swords argument
>is that any extraterrestrial intelligences which are likely to
>visit earth will be generally humanoid in shape and have similar
>social motivations as humans. For some reason Jerry seems to
>think that this theory is supportive of ETH speculations about
>UFO origins. Dennis Stacy describes being at the 1991 MUFON
>symposium when Swords gave one of his first public expositions
>of his exobiological speculations.

>It is puzzling that Jerry should think that Swords' work is
>either groundbreaking or supportive of the ETH. I attach an
>extract from a short article, "The Case for Humanoids" by
>psycho-social bogeyman John Harney, which was published in MUFOB
>(the earlier name of Magonia) new series no.6, Spring 1977.
>Jerry did receive this magazine at the time, but no doubt it is
>filed away beneath the wealth of other publications which he is
>constantly urging us to read.

This is what Mike Swords says about the case for ETH:

"The ETH is a natural concept to occur to anyone seriously
looking at the UFO phenomenon.... Despite this naturalness, and
perhaps because of it, the ETH finds itself under continuing,
sometimes emotional attack. The attack comes from everywhere:
inside ufology and out, from laypersons and scientists, and even
insidiously in the air as a somewhat undefinable giggle factor.
Because the hypothesis is so naturally arrived at, this negative
environment is intriguing. An essay much larger than this one
should be written to try to analyze that peculiarity. This essay
will try to answer a simpler question: does science support or
oppose the ETH?....

"Of the scientific objections to the ETH, only one survives this
analysis. It is not that current knowledge forbids ETI or its
travel here. As we have seen, current knowledge actually favors
it. It is not that ETI doesn't breathe or look as it ought to.
Those objections, examined carefully, prove pseudoscientific.
And it is not that ETs have not landed on the White House lawn
(or some similarly incontrovertible event). All that is the
musing of speculators inventing behaviors for entities with
agendas about which we know nothing.

"The only worthy objection to the ETH is that there is little or
nothing _upon which to do science_ in a traditional physical-
sciences mode. This is a problem that the Air Force's Project
Blue Book had, the University of Colorado UFO Project had,
ufologists have. It is a real problem but perhaps not an
impossible one. There seems to be a kind of evidence here and
there, difficult to fix and measure but there nevertheless. It
is a hard job. Perhaps it is forgivable that academics do not
want to try. What is not forgivable is their calling upon
alleged impossibles, without science, and with only an intuitive
good feeling to go on. The ETH is not impossible. It may even be
likely. It is at least an open question, and a hypothesis
sufficient to explain ufology's most resistant mysteries." --
from The UFO Encyclopedia, 2nd Edition: The Phenomenon from the
Beginning, pp. 368, 372.

For those interested in Swords' argument in its entirety, along
with its sources in the scientific literature, here is a
bibliography of his writings on the ETH and science:

"The Case for E.T.: Within the Mainstream of Science."
In Walter H. Andrus, Jr., and Richard H. Hall, eds. MUFON
1986 UFO Symposium Proceedings, 18-43.

"The Third Option: How They Got Here, and Why."
International UFO Reporter 12,1 (January/February 1987):
12-19.

"Science and the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis in Ufology."
Journal of UFO Studies 1 (n.s., 1989): 67-102.

"Modern Biology and the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis."
In Walter H. Andrus, Jr., ed. MUFON 1991 International
UFO Symposium Proceedings, 51-74.

"Does the ETH Make Sense?" International UFO Reporter
17,5 (September/October 1992): 6-8,12.

"Literature Reviews: SETI/ETI and UFOs." Journal of UFO
Studies 5 (n.s., 1994): 141-56.

"Extraterrestrial Hypothesis and Science." In Jerome Clark,
The UFO Book, 188-99, and The UFO Encyclopedia, 2nd
Edition, 368-73.


Jerry Clark






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   Jul > Jul 10

                                CE: Meteorite

From: Francis Ridge <slk@EVANSVILLE.NET>
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 14:24:12 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 18:23:48 -0400
Subject: CE: Meteorite


TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN

We have just received a report from a man in our region who
claims to have recovered a baseball-sized meteorite on his
property. It is within the guidelines of Physical Trace cases,
but I am not aware of the persons and/or organization that should
be contacted. Since this is NOT unidentified per se or related to
UFOs, who should we contact? It is of the utmost importance that
the proper authorities ONLY should be given this man's name and
phone number. Please respond to me privately and ONLY if you can
advise of the proper protocols.

Francis Ridge
The Lunascan Project
slk@world.evansville.net





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   Jul > Jul 10

                             Kokomo typo mishap

From: Kenny Young <task@fuse.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 17:28:48 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 18:21:12 -0400
Subject: Kokomo typo mishap


Oooops!

I incorrectly stated that the time of the alleged Kokomo, Indiana
sighting was between June 20 & 25, 1998 - From 10:30 to 11:00 a.m.

This is not accurate, the reportee indicated that the time of the
alleged sighting was between June 20 & 25, 1998 - From 10:30 to
11:00 p.m.

The sighting was reportedly at night, during p.m. hours, not a.m. as
indicated.

Kenny Young
--
UFO Research





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   Jul > Jul 11

                   Re: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights

From: Susan Baldwin <sblee@stc.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 19:56:29 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 08:36:47 -0400
Subject: Re: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights


>Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 21:57:43 -0700
>From: frances emma barwood <fbarwood@primenet.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights

>This Thursday on A&E channel there will be a show called "The
>Unexplained".  It is supposed to be about the Phoenix Lights and the
>producer called me this evening to let me know so that I would watch
>it.  He said that I am in it.  Hope it is good.

>Let me know what you thought of it after you watch.

>Thanks, Frances


Frances

I think you deserve a big "attagirl" for sticking your political
neck out.  The skeptics in my opinion were the ones that came off
looking like fools. No matter how rationally you discuss UFO's
though its not going to go down like discussing world peace,
unfortunately.

I don't know about the rest of the crew here but it's hard for me
to look at those shows from a non-believer's perspective. That
might be the best opinion to get.

I think the show presented you as a truth-seeker which is what
most of us are, in all our variations.

Susan









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   Jul > Jul 11

                      Re: UFOR - Uri Geller on 'Aviary'

From: Sean Liddle <gortrix@intranet.ca>
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:39:10 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 08:51:17 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOR - Uri Geller on 'Aviary'

>From: Blue Resonant Human <density4@cts.com>

>::: Uri Geller on The Aviary :::
>[from the London Times, July 1 1998]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I am amazed that Mr. Geller has enough credability left in his
name that a web server would allow him space for his site without
paying for five years fees in advance..  Mr. Geller was proven a
fake "psychic" many, many years ago, and I thought he had
disappeared to become a weed man on a kibbutz somewhere.. This
kind of nonsense only strengthens my beliefs that when we allow
wackos to promote our beliefs, we look farcical, and thats why
the media ignores our credible reports..

Mr. Geller, go back to scamming money from old ladies in bingo
halls, and new agers blinded by the truth..

S.Liddle
QAPRA






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                 Alfred's Odd Ode #255 [Restore John Ford!]

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 18:22:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 08:33:09 -0400
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #255 [Restore John Ford!]

Apology to MW #255 (For July 10, 1998)

The summer sees a flurry of an interest in John Ford. Not the
kind that matters, mind, nor the kind that changes score. He was
hardly even mentioned -- in fact forsaken, and derided; his
manner so abrasive (?) that his censure seemed entitled! There
was *distance* put around him; you saw people turning backs. You
heard a *qualified* support, and vague distortions of the facts.
You hear about betrayal when his lawyer left the ship. Where ARE
his friends supported quotes that "John's a good guy," Chip <g>?

Ms. Douglass washed her hands (damned spot!) in a fit of wounded
pique? Sensation peddling journalists were senseless, dumb, and
thick? Accusation _flew_ like rain in lacerating torrents, while
John is drugged indifference, without peer review, or warrant.
Pitiless he sits alone while we posture and we bicker; our
system and our world view is twisted -- getting sicker.
Forgotten, _he's_ the victim!  His only crime: he's
unattractive. He _*knew*_ that they were lying, and it _made_
him maladaptive. But he stayed within the law, I'd bet, the
machine went OUT to _get_ him. Entrapment, and a wire man, plus
a bogus stash -- forget it! John was doomed, the case contrived,
or I'll eat Phil Klass's crow. Lastly -- John's been _driven_
crazy -- if he's sane we'd never know.

It eats at me it _could_ be me; I'd be in John Ford's hell. Or
you or he or she, you see, and buying what they sell. Reminded
when it's bed time, and told to sweep the floor, and this while
stripped of everything you'd made -- it's out the door! Whacked
out on medication for a blunted even strain; forgetting to
remember what it was you'd said, again. Your thoughts are then
discounted, and your points amount to shit. You lose your good
ambition, and you wither bit by bit. Your expressions are
unvalued by the least that's in your crowd. Bonaparte, and holy
Jesus . . . share your cells -- so be not proud. UFO's have
flown right down _inside_ your fellow inmates. Some of it
perhaps in truth -- but to mainstreams you�re a primate. Beneath
its unconcern, contempt, or crass consideration you are
neutralized and hull breached -- rescue hopeless, sad ablation.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

Like an entropy you can watch happen to you. A slow rot, bad
enough when it's justified, intolerable when it is not, and
serving the convenient ends of those that ultimately disrespect
you. I picture John looking past the bars to the free outside,
remembering what it felt like to be in hot pursuit -- on the
trail of his investigation -- remembering, with difficulty, what
it felt like to be useful. . . or happy.

Oddly, Ms. Douglass was cool on me from the very beginning,
dismissing my support with a curt, unfriendly E-mail. Perhaps I
failed to meet a standard she has before she is respectfully
appreciative of a response to her outcry. I've learned that I
should _start_ there . A person must lose _my_ respectful
appreciation. "With friends like that," I've said before -- and
how _was_  John Ford provided any support with front people so
charmless, standoffish, and picky?

I think I could have used me were I the respected, but distant,
Ms. Douglass. She could have had a philosophical ally at her
back at any rate, but all I got was authoritarian rebuff that
lacked all ceremony. I was told to stop what I was doing --
ironically, the same demand John Ford endures.

Now it certainly could be that I'm a lot more unpleasant,
intellectually odious, and obnoxious than even John Ford was
supposed to be <g>, <I'm thinking, stodgy unbending
Republicanism?> -- but I don't believe that completely explains
the icy shoulder I got from a member of John Ford's defense
team, and lately a rather clear implication that I'm a hothead
with a short fuse. What I _am_ is an interested person asking
for <demanding> resolution on the issue regarding an alleged
criminal mistreatment of John Ford.

>From where come the strange convictions that Ford DESERVES to
be in an institution for the criminally insane as a clear and
present danger to his fellow fat cat Republicans? And from where
came the obliging convictions of Ms. Douglass at the genesis of
this John Ford affair?

. . . She was passionate about John Ford once, though; she sure
rang true with me -- she got me started . . . fired me up! Now
-- it's a fire that makes its own oxygen! John Ford's apparent,
and very possible unconstitutional abuse fills me with insulted
rage, and in as much as this _kind of thing_ goes on all the
time, it should you, too! If for no other reason than it could
_be_ you, certainly, and much, much easier than you would think!

John Ford was a running (but lawful) embarrassment to Suffolk
county, and the Suffolk county political machine took him down
for it! If that's true, it can't be allowed! Every suspicion of
political behavior like that should be ripped out by the roots
everywhere it's found _forgetting_ the very real and personal
suffering of John Ford!

Moreover, as I have said before -- the John Ford Affair could be
one of those points where everything just _wants_ to fall out in
disclosure of its own accord, and should be pursued for _that_
reason. Getting to the bottom of the John Ford Affair could be
getting to the bottom of the full ufological monty <g>.

Restore John Ford! Put him back the way he was -- breathing
free, financially independent, and so far up the nose of the
man, boot heels are felt on unjust chins!

Restore John Ford!



--
Explore the Alien View? <Updated 10 July>

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake.








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                   Re: Cooper - Maccabee Adds To The Story

From: Andy Denne - A.U.R.A. <aura@telekabel2.nl>
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 03:18:37 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 08:47:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Cooper - Maccabee Adds To The Story


>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Cooper - Maccabee Adds To The Story
>Date: Fri, 10 Jul 98 15:57:15 PDT

>>Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 16:26:02 +0200
>>From: Andy Denne <aura@telekabel2.nl>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Cooper - Maccabee Adds To The Story

>>>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Cooper - Maccabee Adds To The Story
>>>Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 12:50:32 -0400

>>>>Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 00:03:50 -0400
>>>>From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>>>>Subject: UFO UpDate: William Cooper Taking On Authorities
>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>>>Oh, yes, I might point out the 'Behold A Pale Horse' (which
>>>>should be titled 'Behind A Pale Horse' or some such) is Cooper's
>>>>"Mein Kampf". And I'm in there, along with most other
>>>>ufologists, as a nasty government agent out to screw Cooper and
>>>>freedom loving people all over the world. Cooper's motto...

>>>"Behold A Pale Horse" includes the full text of the Protocols of
>>>the Elders of Zion, a vicious anti-Semitic document forged, if I
>>>remember correctly, by the Czarist secret police. Cooper
>>>subsequently (again if I remember correctly) said it really
>>>wasn't about Jews, although of course it purports to be a secret
>>>Jewish document detailing plans for various atrocities.

>>That's what I thought! And I wonder how one can read Cooper
>>without noticing the right-winged, (sometimes downright fascistic)
>>ideology he's so full off.

>>I must say that as an european, I'm quiet surprised of
>>Dr. Maccabee's reaction...didn't he speak about "left pinkies"
>>in one of his recent postings?

>What in the world would make you think that Bruce Maccabee would
>be attracted to, or find anything credible in, Cooper's lunacy
>and fascism?  And don't you -- "as an european" -- recognize
>humor when you see it?  Bruce used the phrase "left pinko" (not
>"pinkie"; that's your little finger) in a comic, sarcastic
>sense.

>Jerry Clark

Jerry,

First of all I think you are jumping to conclusions if you think
I thought Dr. Maccabee had these ideas that Cooper carries
himself. I only asked what I didn't know, and sometimes I have
such a lot of readin' to do that it's quiet hard to filter out
sarcasm in a language that isn't your own to begin with.

And before this starts to become another discussion: I ONLY
asked. Dr. Maccabee had the patience to explain internal US
politics a little better to me so EVEN I could understand
sarcasm ;-)

I did in now way meant to offend Dr.Maccabee, I wouldn't even
have that right in my opinion. I just got confused and Bruce was
so nice to explain, that's all there's to it.

With Kind Regards,

Andy Denne
Abduction & Ufo Research Association
The Netherlands







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                    Re: Triangle Spotted In New Hampshire

From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 18:52:04 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 08:23:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Triangle Spotted In New Hampshire


>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 04:05:52 +0200
>Subject: Triangle Spotted In New Hampshire

>Received via "alt.paranet.ufo" July 9.

>Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 08:05:48 GMT
>From: archem98@bit-net.com (Ready2Run)
>Subject: tringle ufo spotted in New Hampshire

>Last week over 200 people reported seeing a triangular craft of
>enormous proportion.. including the Exeter NH chief of police. When
>asked if it could have been a stealth bomber, he said, "Sure, one the
>size of New Jersey. This has been big news out this way."

Hmm...Exeter NH isn't too far from here. I have relatives there,
I'll see if I can get more details or some newspaper articles.

I'll let you all know.

Greg








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                Saucer Shaped And Remote Controlled US Craft

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 02:59:38 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 08:41:25 -0400
Subject: Saucer Shaped And Remote Controlled US Craft

Received via "alt.alien.research" July 10.

Stig


*******


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 16:38:13 -0400
From: bear <intcon@tampabay.rr.com>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.research
Subject: Remote controlled aircraft


My company has, over the last 35 years, done a considerable
amount of work on military air bases. In that period of time, we
have observed the utilization of remote controlled aircraft.

In  one particular instance, at the Cherry Point MCAS in North
Carolina, we even built a reduced scale runway for these craft.
I talked to one of the people involved, and he said the military
had remote control, saucer shaped craft, and had them for a
number of years. I thought he was joking, but it could explain
some of the flying characteristics of ufo sightings.

If you have no pilot, g forces and things of that nature
wouldn't have the same impact. Just thought I'd see if anyone
else has any input.

bear




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                              Re: CE: Meteorite

From: Francis Ridge <slk@EVANSVILLE.NET>
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 17:33:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 09:45:39 -0400
Subject: Re: CE: Meteorite

At 02:44 PM 7/10/98 -0700, you [Jan Aldrich] wrote:

>Fran

>  How about the Institue of Meteoritics at the University of New
>Mexico? You can probably contact them on line through the
>Univsersity's webpage.

>Jan

Thanks, Jan.

Fran





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                   Re: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 08:49:55 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 10:37:54 -0400
Subject: Re: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights


>From: Susan Baldwin <sblee@stc.net>
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights
>Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 19:56:29 -0400

>>Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 21:57:43 -0700
>>From: frances emma barwood <fbarwood@primenet.com>
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights

>>This Thursday on A&E channel there will be a show called "The
>>Unexplained".  It is supposed to be about the Phoenix Lights and the
>>producer called me this evening to let me know so that I would watch
>>it.  He said that I am in it.  Hope it is good.

>>Let me know what you thought of it after you watch.

>>Thanks, Frances

>Frances

>I think you deserve a big "attagirl" for sticking your political
>neck out.  The skeptics in my opinion were the ones that came off
>looking like fools. No matter how rationally you discuss UFO's
>though its not going to go down like discussing world peace,
>unfortunately.

Ha-Ha-Ha! I know what you mean Susan, and agree, but consider
that discussing UFOs goes down _exactly_ like discussing world
peace -- without focus, fearfully incomplete, and one sided!
<g>.

>I don't know about the rest of the crew here but it's hard for me
>to look at those shows from a non-believer's perspective. That
>might be the best opinion to get.

I can -- it makes me want to run to a hidey-hole, and wall
myself in. Moreover, it's hard to respect the opinion of one who
believes you to be deluded and misinformed.

>I think the show presented you as a truth-seeker which is what
>most of us are, in all our variations.

Even if a fat cat republican <g>. Seriously though -- her
courage _is_ exceptional.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com
--
Explore the Alien View? <Updated 10 July>

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake.







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   Jul > Jul 11

                            Advertising And UFOs

From: Joaquim Fernandes <j.fernan@esoterica.pt>
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 15:18:09 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 12:20:48 -0400
Subject: Advertising And UFOs

Dear list members,

I am working on my PhD in Sciences Communications in Porto
University (perhaps the first one in Europe, I dont know; can
anybody else confirm this?) and the  global subject is related to
the UFO/ET syndrome evolution in the Portugaise press in two
decades, from 1974 (the Democratic Revolution) to 1994, a
generation survey. One of its important argument is the
advertising and the ET/UFO phenomena.

I ask for help of anyone that could get me a sample of press
advertising in his country to make a cultural confrontation. Of
course, I will put his name on the thesis volume. Any exemplar of
any time is well come. Thank you for the cooperation.

Joaquim Fernandes

Dep. Sciences Communications
University Fernando Pessoa,
Pra=E7a 9 de Abril, 349
4200 PORTO - PORTUGAL







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                 'Atlanta Journal-Constitution' Questionaire

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 11:15:12 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 12:25:02 -0400
Subject: 'Atlanta Journal-Constitution' Questionaire

This morning's (Saturday) Atlanta Journal-Constitution has
printed a half page of comments responding to their question on
their web page:

http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/talk

"What do you think about UFOs?"


Below are some exerpts which I found interesting:

Douglas O. Winter, Atlanta writes:

A well-known entertainer once said: "Even if my husband is
cheating on me, I prefer not to know it, else I would have to do
something about it."

There is everything to lose, and nothing to gain, for our
elected officials even to acknowledge the possibility of UFOs.
If it were ever proved that UFOs do exist, then the public might
clamor for government to "do something about it." Government
officials do not like to feel powerless.

<snip. . .Indeed! -tb>

Thomas Olin Sneed, College Park writes:

In 1951 on Yontan Mountain, Okinawa, my crew and I clocked a UFO
traveling at 2,500 mph from the north of our area to the south,
and then back north again.

Shortly after this sighting, some officers I had never seen
showed up and questioned each crew member not only about what we
had seen on the radar screen, but also about our education and
experience as a radar operator.

We were all sworn to secrecy and told we would be courtmartialed
if we discussed this matter with anyone else. This was before we
had aircraft capable of these speeds.

<I guess he is not so worried about that threat now. -tb>

Mike Swartz, Atlanta writes:

<snip>

What lures so many alien spaceships to our humble planet? Maybe
they're scouting for food. You never know: On the interstellar
food chain, we might be the equivalent of cattle.

<Food or pets? Our water planet is also a good source of
deuterium. -tb>

Finally, Jeffrey B. Krieger, Greer, S.C. writes:

I do not consider us an intelligent life form, even on this
planet. I find our collective arrogance about being alone and
unique, in the infinite diversity of wherever we are,
astonishingly pitiful and pathetic.

<end of quotes>

Agreed, Jeffery. Until we shed nationalism and the war it
causes, and unify humanity, we are no more than savages.

Terry







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                                     Re:

From: Donald  Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 11:39:11 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 12:34:26 -0400
Subject: Re:


>From: Susan Baldwin <sblee@stc.net>
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights
>Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 19:56:29 -0400

>>Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 21:57:43 -0700
>>From: frances emma barwood <fbarwood@primenet.com>
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights

>>This Thursday on A&E channel there will be a show called "The
>>Unexplained".  It is supposed to be about the Phoenix Lights and the
>>producer called me this evening to let me know so that I would watch
>>it.  He said that I am in it.  Hope it is good.

>>Let me know what you thought of it after you watch.

>>Thanks, Frances

>Frances

>I think you deserve a big "attagirl" for sticking your political
>neck out. The skeptics in my opinion were the ones that came off
>looking like fools. No matter how rationally you discuss UFOs
>though its not going to go down like discussing world peace,
>unfortunately.

>I don't know about the rest of the crew here but it's hard for me
>to look at those shows from a non-believer's perspective. That
>might be the best opinion to get.

>I think the show presented you as a truth-seeker which is what
>most of us are, in all our variations.

>Susan

This was my first opportunity to view the Pheonix Lights on
video. I would have preferred to see more of them from different
angles, however they appeared to be over a populated area. THAT
rules out flares. If the Air Guard or the USAF in any way
admitted to dropping flares in a populated area, not to mention
a FAA controlled airspace, somebody's ass would be grass as they
say.

As for the supposition that these were flares from 60 miles
away, the fact that Pheonix is below sea level and the curvature
of the Earth would rule that out unless the flares were dropped
at 40-50,000 feet or 8-10 miles up, and then what would be the
point. They are meant to light up the ground below and would be
of little use way up there. Since these lights were strung out
in an even pattern and remained up there for quite awhile, which
flares cannot do, then it seems obvious that the AF's
explanation once more is bogus. One gentleman, ex-forces, a vet
of the Viet Nam war, pretty much stated the obvious about the
flares.

On the screen,the lights seemed to be in a semicircular pattern
rather than "V" shaped, as if on the leading edge of monsterous
disk, however  that might have been due to the vantage point of
the camera. A&E at least tried to do a balanced job of the show
without too much hype.

I see that Jim Dilettoso [sp] is still with us.

Don Ledger





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                   Re: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights

From: Donald  Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 11:39:11 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 23:56:58 -0400
Subject: Re: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights


>From: Susan Baldwin <sblee@stc.net>
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights
>Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 19:56:29 -0400

>>Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 21:57:43 -0700
>>From: frances emma barwood <fbarwood@primenet.com>
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights

>>This Thursday on A&E channel there will be a show called "The
>>Unexplained".  It is supposed to be about the Phoenix Lights and the
>>producer called me this evening to let me know so that I would watch
>>it.  He said that I am in it.  Hope it is good.

>>Let me know what you thought of it after you watch.

>>Thanks, Frances

>Frances

>I think you deserve a big "attagirl" for sticking your political
>neck out. The skeptics in my opinion were the ones that came off
>looking like fools. No matter how rationally you discuss UFOs
>though its not going to go down like discussing world peace,
>unfortunately.

>I don't know about the rest of the crew here but it's hard for me
>to look at those shows from a non-believer's perspective. That
>might be the best opinion to get.

>I think the show presented you as a truth-seeker which is what
>most of us are, in all our variations.

>Susan

This was my first opportunity to view the Pheonix Lights on
video. I would have preferred to see more of them from different
angles, however they appeared to be over a populated area. THAT
rules out flares. If the Air Guard or the USAF in any way
admitted to dropping flares in a populated area, not to mention
a FAA controlled airspace, somebody's ass would be grass as they
say.

As for the supposition that these were flares from 60 miles
away, the fact that Pheonix is below sea level and the curvature
of the Earth would rule that out unless the flares were dropped
at 40-50,000 feet or 8-10 miles up, and then what would be the
point. They are meant to light up the ground below and would be
of little use way up there. Since these lights were strung out
in an even pattern and remained up there for quite awhile, which
flares cannot do, then it seems obvious that the AF's
explanation once more is bogus. One gentleman, ex-forces, a vet
of the Viet Nam war, pretty much stated the obvious about the
flares.

On the screen,the lights seemed to be in a semicircular pattern
rather than "V" shaped, as if on the leading edge of monsterous
disk, however  that might have been due to the vantage point of
the camera. A&E at least tried to do a balanced job of the show
without too much hype.

I see that Jim Dilettoso [sp] is still with us.

Don Ledger





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                      Re: UFOR - Uri Geller on 'Aviary'

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 98 11:03:12 PDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 08:44:02 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOR - Uri Geller on 'Aviary'


> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:39:10 -0400
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Sean Liddle <gortrix@intranet.ca>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFOR - Uri Geller on 'Aviary'

> >From: Blue Resonant Human <density4@cts.com>

> >::: Uri Geller on The Aviary :::
> >[from the London Times, July 1 1998]

> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

> I am amazed that Mr. Geller has enough credability left in his
> name that a web server would allow him space for his site without
> paying for five years fees in advance..  Mr. Geller was proven a
> fake "psychic" many, many years ago, and I thought he had
> disappeared to become a weed man on a kibbutz somewhere.. This
> kind of nonsense only strengthens my beliefs that when we allow
> wackos to promote our beliefs, we look farcical, and thats why
> the media ignores our credible reports..

> Mr. Geller, go back to scamming money from old ladies in bingo
> halls, and new agers blinded by the truth..

I don't know what inspired the above outburst, which seems
unwarranted.  I know Uri Geller slightly and find him to be a
genuinely nice man -- an opinion held, in my experience, by
just about everyone who has met him.  I have no opinion one way
or another about his psychic powers, but I know enough
about the controversy to know that nothing has been proved
one way or another, bombastic claims from predictable
quarters to the contrary notwithstanding.

Contrary to the impression give above, Geller, far from being
"a weed man on a kibbutz somewhere," is quite a wealthy man
and lives comfortably with his family in the south of England.
I like to think he's the living answer to the smartass question,
"If you're psychic, why ain't you rich?"  Geller made his money
from corporate clients, not from little old ladies in bingo parlors.

Jerry Clark







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                 Z-shaped UFOs Reported in Northern England

From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 07:18:21 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 09:39:16 -0400
Subject: Z-shaped UFOs Reported in Northern England

Last night Lancashire UFO Society received a few UFO reports and
other groups with whom we are associated heard of similar
sightings. Z-shaped UFOs and other LITS were seen across the
country.

In fact, these were the result of a meteor shower and this is the
second time in recent weeks that UFOs have been reported under
the same circumstances.

Tim Matthews, Lancashire UFO Society.





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                         UFO*BC - Historical Report

From: Bill Oliver <boliver@direct.ca>
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 12:59:52 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 09:50:42 -0400
Subject: UFO*BC - Historical Report


For more from the archives visit us at http://www.ufobc.org

The Nootka Man from the Sky
Source: 'Dark Visions' by John Robert Colombo

John Meares (1756-1809) was a lieutenant in the Royal Navy who
resigned in 1771. He served as captain of three voyages from
China to Nootka Sound.  He was a fine observer of the Nootka
Indians of the late 18th century. He is remembered today as the
author of the travel account, Voyages made in the years 1778 and
1789, from China to the North West Coast of America, (London
1790) in which is told a number of Nootka traditions.

One such story is of an "extraordinary stranger from the sky".

Meares asked the indians how they had become acquainted with
copper and why it was such an object of admiration among their
people.

The indians explained that their ancestors had met a strange man
in a copper "canoe" and everything in this man's possesion was
made of metal.

The stranger told them that he had come from the sky, and he
warned them that one day their nation would be destroyed and
they would all be killed.

The natives ended up killing the stranger and stealing
his"copper canoe" and thus starting their fondness of the metal.

----------------------------------------------------------------






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                   UFO*BC - More From The Surrey Corridor

From: Bill Oliver <boliver@direct.ca>
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 12:53:23 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 09:44:14 -0400
Subject: UFO*BC - More From The Surrey Corridor


Check out the latest happenings from Beautiful BC!
We are British Columbia's most active UFO group
http://www.ufobc.org

Surrey Strange Happenings

Investigated by Steve Adair and Graham Conway, written by Steve
Adair. On January 25 of this year, there was a message on our
hotline service marked urgent. Intrigued that someone had left
an �urgent� message while it was my two week shift on the
hotline (at UFO*BC we take a rotational 2 week stint at
following up on hotline calls), I wasted no time in getting back
to the caller. I was rewarded! The following is the account of
R.W. of Surrey. Sometime between December 12 & 20, 1997,
something strange indeed occurred at the home of the caller. It
was around midnight and R.W. was preparing to retire for the
night in the basement portion of the house, a small bedroom area
he shares with his 5 year old daughter. According to the
witness, he was lying in his bed looking across the room at her,
just before dozing off, when he heard a loud hissing sound . At
the same time, the room became filled with very bright, white
light. Suddenly, he became unable to move, his body �paralyzed�,
along with a burning, itching sensation from head to toe. He
looked at his daughter again, but was no longer looking across
the room, but DOWN at her! He sensed that he was indeed rising
up, and felt fear, but at the same time, calm and relaxed. The
room at this time was still flooded with very bright, white
light.

The witness then found himself lying on some sort of bed , in
what he describes as a huge, square shaped room, also very
brightly lit, and hazy. He recalls seeing what he thought were
very white, bluish coloured sheets hanging all around. He felt
that someone was holding the back of his head, and he could hear
speaking, perhaps half a dozen or more different voices,
speaking in different languages, and volume levels. He felt
fear, but heard a voice telepathically telling him that he and
his daughter were �ok�, and had nothing to fear. He did not see
his daughter, or any one else during this entire event. When
asked if he noticed odours of any kind, he recalls the smell of
what he thought was liver!

He doesn't recall much after this, finding himself back in his
own bed just as daylight was breaking, (this incident began
around midnight to 1 a.m.) His body still had a tingling
sensation, and it was very difficult to move, and was still
feeling �itchy� all over. Since this experience, he has been
having nightmares, and is fearful of going to bed at night. A
red itchy rash has appeared on the back of his left hand. During
the day, he senses that someone is wanting to communicate with
him, and touch him. While watching TV, or sitting reading, he
can hear murmuring, or whispering, but can�t understand what is
being said. Along with this (if that weren�t enough!) tiny
bright blue diamond shaped points of light will suddenly go past
his field of vision while sitting reading, or watching
television.

It would seem that this is just the latest in a series of odd
events that R.W. has experienced over the last 30 years or so.
Among them, the sighting of a �Spitfire� World War II aircraft
(with no emblems or markings), close enough to see the pilot,
who looked right at him, and raised a hand in a sort of
greeting. This in itself may be unremarkable, but what is
remarkable is that the aircraft was in a nose-dive, and a crash
was imminent, as there was no place for a plane to land.
However, there was no crash, and no evidence of any aircraft.
This was followed shortly after by an equally puzzling event,
when the witness was with his Grandfather in the garden behind
their home in Surrey, on a beautiful sunny day, when out of a
clear blue sky came a �bolt of lightning� which hit a rock in
the backyard, right in front of the witness. They picked up the
rock, and reported that it had a �golden glow�. These events
took place about 1959.

In 1975 things got stranger still. The witness was in the King
George Highway & 112th Avenue area, along with some family and
friends, when they all saw an object described as a bright
orange ball with a smaller ball on top drop from the sky and
hover. Estimated distance was �a few miles�.

Observation time, about 10 minutes. As luck would have it, the
witness had a Polaroid camera with him, and was able to take a
few pictures of the object, which then took off suddenly.
Apparently others in the Port Mann area had also seen the
object, as the Columbian Paper ran a short article the following
day.

The witness called the airport regarding this sighting, but no
one there could offer any information. R.W. then went to the
Columbian newspaper to share his story, who reported it in the
next edition, and to R.W.�s dismay, included his name and
address. This was soon followed by a telephone call and a visit
from a military man, a Sgt. Major, who said he was from Jericho
Beach military base. After arriving at the witness� home,
dressed in full uniform, and arriving in a green military car,
he asked if he could come in and discuss the sighting with the
witness and his parents. He supplied the three of them with note
pads and pencils, and asked them to go into separate rooms and
draw what they had seen the day of the sighting. They agreed.
The witness then volunteered that he had taken photos of the
object and showed them to the Sgt. Major, who asked if there
were any negatives, or additional photos. There were no other
photos, and no negatives as these were Polaroid shots. The Sgt.
Major then took the witness� camera, and without explanation or
apologies, opened the camera and exposed the remaining film. He
then put the photos and sketches into his briefcase, and
abruptly left the house. Later they received a letter thanking
them for phoning in their report (which they hadn�t done!).

Approximately 2 weeks later they got a visit from an individual
described as very tall and lanky with a military type haircut,
dark wrap around glasses, and a sickly looking greyish white
complexion. He said that he had seen the article in the paper
and would like to talk to them about the sighting. The witness
and his parents invited him in. When offered some coffee and
cookies, he seemed puzzled, and asked "What is this?", to which
the mother replied "it�s just coffee." The visitor then gulped
the very hot coffee straight down, crumbled the cookies up with
his hands, and put them in his mouth! He spoke with a slow,
slurred type of speech, and seemed to have something like a
British accent. During the conversation he was asked where he
was from, to which he replied "Oh, quite a distance from here".
He went on to say that he was to have met with the object the
day of the sighting, but that he had been �late�. Noticing the
TV set in the corner, he suddenly seemed apprehensive, pointed
at it and asked "What is that?", to which the mother replied, "
It�s a television", then proceeded to turn it on. The visitor
then quite excitedly said "That�s a communicator! Turn it off!"

During the course of the remaining conversation, (which was
curiously dotted with Biblical quotations) the witness� mother
made a remark about UFOs and said that if they were coming here
to harm us, perhaps we should arm ourselves, and shoot at them
first. Upon hearing this remark, the visitor became quite upset
and said "You could never harm us, we could destroy your world
in the blink of an eye, and would not hesitate to do so!"

All this time the visitor kept checking his watch, reported as
being �very fancy� and on the right hand, then suddenly stood up
and said "I must leave now, but may I come back again?" R.W. and
his parents replied in the affirmative. He then went to the
door, and when the witness and family extended their hands to
shake his hand , he did not accept, but simply raised his right
hand and walked out the door. Immediately after closing the
door, they looked out the front window, but the visitor was
nowhere to be seen.

I can�t help but wonder if my next �tour of duty� on the hotline
will yield the typical �light in the sky� reports (quite often
the planet Venus, aircraft with landing lights on, etc...),
calls from those with far too much time on their hands and wild
imaginations, just plain crank calls, or just maybe........

----------------------------------------------------------------






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                          UFO*BC - Surrey Corridor

From: Bill Oliver <boliver@direct.ca>
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 12:48:21 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 09:46:50 -0400
Subject: UFO*BC - Surrey Corridor


Check out more from Surrey Corridor at http://www.ufobc.org

The Surrey Saga...continued
by Graham Conway

We are frequently asked, "Is anything happening in Surrey?", to
which we usually reply, "Yes, indeed, pretty well on an ongoing
basis". If it�s quiet, or seems to be, then that only indicates
we haven�t yet heard about the "latest piece of action". But
enough of my rambling, let�s provide some examples for you
readers (i.e. - reflections from my notebook).

The night the Persian Gulf War officially ended a lady driving
north on King George Highway watched in open-mouth amazement as
two triangular shaped craft crossed the highway from east to
west at the 98th Avenue intersection. Located behind the Surrey
Village Market (west side of King George Highway), is a 14 story
apartment building. Our witness stated that the wedge shaped
craft were at the 9th floor level. Despite the fact that these
UFOs were well illuminated around the visible edges, we received
no other reports from other potential travelers in that area.
But what else is new? Such one act plays are par for the course.

Moving southward a few blocks we arrive at Bear Creek Park,
where reports frequently originate. On the 17th of May, 1995, a
couple who live behind Brookside Elementary School were witness
to a large pie-shaped craft that flew slowly from southeast to
northwest. This was viewed from the kitchen window by both the
man and his wife. Up to that point the former had been a
dyed-in-the-wool skeptic. The prolonged sighting gave him reason
to re-assess his stance, as the low altitude UFO with its
revolving coloured lights moved out of sight over some nearby
trees. About forty minutes later it was back again for a briefer
period. It comes as no great surprise (to us) when we heard that
the sister of the lady of the house had experienced strange
events herself, even though she lives in another municipality.
On thing is for sure, she did not want to discuss her memories.
The mother of these two ladies had a lengthy history of
sightings and lifetime events which she was prepared to discuss.

Close by to this particular location can be found a very visible
series of high tension transmission towers that run west to
east, crossing King George Highway. In the very immediate
vicinity of these silently menacing power lines a two story
house is located.

On July 27th, 1994, at 4 am, "Eddie" came into his mother�s
bedroom to tell her that "there was a thing with blue lights
under the wires" and "little people on the poles". His mother
told him to shut up and climb into her bed. At breakfast that
morning he was still talking about it. I got a call at 8 am and
arrived at the house at 11, after re-arranging my work schedule.

I quickly discovered that Eddie�s bedroom faces east. Even if he
could see over the window sill (which he couldn�t), it was not
possible to see the poles he was referring to, from that
location. Asking more questions elicited the astonishing answer
that he had been talking to the "high man" (tall was not in his
vocabulary). "Where did this take place?" "Down there", said he,
pointing to the ground below the verandah on which we were
standing. "Who else was with you?", I asked. "Mummy", he
replied. Needless to say, "mother" didn�t want to hear any of
this. For if what her son was recounting was indeed true, then
they had both been outside during the night, and she had no
memory of it. Even more perplexing was how this strange journey
took place, as her sister lived in the house, her mother in the
lower half, and they also had a dog. Of course, all the doors
were locked. When I asked where the "thing" had gone, he just
pointed into the westerly sky. At this point mother loudly
announced they were going to move, and within a month they had!

It should be noted that at their previous residence in a nearby
district of Whalley, "Eddie" had frequently complained to his
mother of an "old man" who looked at him through his bedroom
window. Two small problems arose from this statement: (1) his
bedroom was on the second floor, and (2) the window had drapes.
Even so, he persisted in this complaint.

To conclude this brief roundup of the weird and wondrous from
the Surrey Corridor - a final stop, one that made its way to
national TV via the aid of a program called "Encounters". The
year was 1994. The family in question is a three member unit.
When we first were invited to hear their story and attempt an
investigation they had been experiencing strange events in their
residence for quite a long period of time. The home, a modest
bungalow, is set in a quiet residential backwater. "Darlene" and
"Eric" are out of the house most of the day. They usually cook
with a microwave unit. The house has solar panels installed in
the roof. You won�t find a basement area, it doesn�t exist. Why
describe all of the above?... simply to make a point. The
bi-monthly gas and electricity bill is usually in the range of
SIX HUNDRED DOLLARS! (No, they don�t grow grass.) The writer�s
home is twice as large, including a basement area, and my hydro
bill for the same period runs around $117, every two months. Why
this vast discrepancy?....no one knows. Various experts have
checked the house out and are unable to determine the power
drain leakage point. Prior to departing they changed the hydro
meter, nothing changed cost wise.

Our own investigation team brought in two technicians familiar
with electrical wiring systems. Despite a very thorough search
of the whole house, inside and out, nothing could be found to
explain this electrical enigma.

The young couple have also had unusual bedroom experiences.
"Eric" sees light "explosions", and both have viewed UFOs
performing sky dances through the sky light set in the ceiling.
On one occasion "Darlene" was able to view a large triangular
shaped craft cross her field of vision (the sky light was 12" by
18"). It took, she reckons, about one minute!

This young couple have a small daughter, who at that particular
time was two years old. Verbal communication was limited,
however she could make it abundantly clear to her parents that
though she was quite prepared to sleep in her crib during the
day, she had no intention of occupying it at night.

Standing at one corner she would point up toward the wall and
repeat "baby, baby, baby". Her parents were unable to see what
she was pointing at. When we were shown the room and told the
story we noticed a small door on the wall where "Teresa" usually
pointed. On opening it up we found an electrical panel.
Significant?...we think so, but don�t know why.

When the film crew for "Encounters" came to the house for the
interview session they completed the sequence by setting up the
equipment outside the house to record our taking leave of our
hosts, "Darlene" and "Eric". As we waited for our cue to depart
we were suddenly informed that it would take a while longer than
expected. The reason being that the crew had just discovered
that the newly charged batteries inserted for each take, were
completely drained. This had never happened to them before, and
where were they positioned you ask?...right outside "Teresa�s"
bedroom! What a coincidence!

In conclusion it should be noted that this couple have had other
UFO sightings. Two whilst on holidays at Osoyoos, on consecutive
nights, for extended periods. The second night they were able to
video tape the light as it moved slowly out of sight. Another
time, travelling home one evening, they viewed a reflective
metallic(?) object high in the clear sunlit sky, for a short
period of time.

The forgoing accounts will serve to confirm that Surrey as a
whole is replete with people who have had, or are having, some
truly astonishing sightings and experiences. If any of you
readers who live within this region of "high strangeness" have a
story to tell that we haven�t yet heard, then
don�t delay, we would be delighted to hear from you.

=================================================







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                   Re: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights

From: Susan Baldwin <sblee@stc.net>
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 16:26:51 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 10:01:15 -0400
Subject: Re: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights


>Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 08:49:55 -0500
>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights

>>>From: Susan Baldwin <sblee@stc.net>
>>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights
>>Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 19:56:29 -0400
>
>>I think you deserve a big "attagirl" for sticking your political
>>neck out.  The skeptics in my opinion were the ones that came off
>>looking like fools. No matter how rationally you discuss UFO's
>>though its not going to go down like discussing world peace,
>>unfortunately.
>
>Ha-Ha-Ha! I know what you mean Susan, and agree, but consider
>that discussing UFOs goes down _exactly_ like discussing world
>peace -- without focus, fearfully incomplete, and one sided!
><g>.

Ahem, you are so right- perhaps I should have said discussing
something like "auto mechanics"  a shot carburetor, is a shot
carburetor and at least people don't look at you like you are
2 sandwiches short of a picnic when you discuss them.

>>I don't know about the rest of the crew here but it's hard for me
>>to look at those shows from a non-believer's perspective. That
>>might be the best opinion to get.

>I can -- it makes me want to run to a hidey-hole, and wall
>myself in. Moreover, it's hard to respect the opinion of one who
>believes you to be deluded and misinformed.

I just knew I should have thrown in *Open Minded* non-believer,
which is what I really meant. Someone who is basically uninformed
about the subject (are there such people?). I just didn't know
exactly how to phrase it. Like you, I am far past that point and
its impossible for me to turn the clock back mentally to when I
was. Sometimes I am TOO accepting of UFO information which makes
me less critical when I watch those shows.

>>I think the show presented you as a truth-seeker which is what
>>most of us are, in all our variations.

>Even if a fat cat republican.

ONLY about UFOs Alfred.....the political stuff I would
characterize as vote-seeking rather than truth seeking, _worlds_
of difference there eh? <g>


Susan






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                       In Defence of Andy Denne et al

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 14:38:36 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 10:07:04 -0400
Subject: In Defence of Andy Denne et al

Dear Sirs:

I just wanted to put in a word in defense of Andy Denne.

I'm not sure he deserves it.

Your's  (  very  truly )

Larry Hatch


ps:   be kind








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                                Ohio UFO Poll

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 02:00:46 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 10:22:47 -0400
Subject: Ohio UFO Poll


>From the Orlando Business Journal. URL:

http://search.excite.com/search.gw?collection=3Dtimely&trace=3DNT&look=3Dwc_=
us
&c=3Dtimely&search=3DUFO


Stig


*******


July 6, 1998


By The Numbers


Wanted: A sign of intelligent life in the universe


James Kitchens


Do aliens just love rednecks?

Is that why all the UFO sightings are in the middle of nowhere? Why
else would they have forsaken a glimpse of the bright lights of our big
cities?

And what about the alien teen-agers? You just know that, like their
human counterparts, they have been given specific instructions before
taking out the family spaceship: "Now, Newt, don't go near any of those
big cities on the third rock from the sun."

And you just know that if they are anything at all like their human
counterparts, then that's the very first place an alien teen-ager would
visit.

I admit, I love the X-Files and all its alien-inspired paranoia. But
there is a line between real live aliens and real good fiction, and
it's beginning to look a lot like some of us have crossed over.

Just the other day, I was riding in the car and overheard people
calling in to a popular radio talk show to discuss whether or not
aliens had visited the United States and whether the government was
keeping it a secret from all of us.

The caller du jour announced he was certain the government had been
capturing space ships and little tiny green men for decades and had
managed to keep it under wraps. After all, he added, the government was
just a bunch of incompetent crooks who couldn't even get the mail
delivered on time.

Our caller can't have it both ways: Either the government is made up of
nincompoops running about in ever-tightening concentric circles, or it
is made up of steely-eyed spy masters who can cajole, intimidate and
efficiently silence thousands of people over a period of decades.

(The government really can get the mail delivered on time, all right,
but then the public will begin to suspect just how excruciatingly
competent Washington really is. No, far better to continue buying $600
hammers and keep up the facade of dumb and dumber.)

Look, if the government can't keep ex-presidential adviser Dick Morris
and his toe-sucking mistress safe from the cameras of the National
Enquirer, how can they possibly keep aliens tucked away?

Very cleverly, according to an awful lot of folks. I know this because
I went to the heartland of the country -- safe, sane Ohio -- and asked
750 registered voters across the state:

Some people think the Earth has been visited by spaceships or aliens
from outer planets. Do you think Earth has ever been visited by aliens
from outer space?

The results: Almost one out of every four voters, 22 percent, declared
that aliens have already landed. Another 18 percent said maybe yes,
maybe no.

That means 40 percent of the corn-fed voters in staid Ohio accept the
possibility that our biggest alien problem has nothing to do with
non-English-speaking people sneaking across the Texas border.

Perhaps Orson "War of the Worlds" Wells said it best: "Of course there
is life on other planets. Who else would use the earth for an insane
asylum?"

James Kitchens is owner and president of The Kitchens Group Inc., an
Orlando-based polling firm.


=A9 1998, Orlando Business Journal







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              Frances Emma Barwood Campaign Event with Richard

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 01:25:36 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 10:12:27 -0400
Subject: Frances Emma Barwood Campaign Event with Richard

Received via "alt.alien.visitors" July 11.

Stig


*******


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ANNOUNCEMENT: Frances Emma Barwood event with Richard Hoagland...

VisionQuest Productions Presents:

Reality Check #3
Truth in Government!

with:

Richard C. Hoagland &
Frances Emma Barwood

July 20th from 6pm - 11pm

Tempe Mission Palms Hotel Resort
#60 E. Fifth Street
Tempe, AZ
(North of University, just off of Mill Ave on the eastside)

Join us for dinner, an incredible lecture, and shocking new updates on
the Mars/Phoenix/Gov't issues. Find out what's been happening since
last July's Phoenix Conference ("The Phoenix Connection") The
Enterprise Mission is Back and Richard would like to share with you his
latest findings at a private dinner party/fund raiser held in Ms.
Barwoods honor and your invited!

Richard has agreed to do this event in order to help support Ms.
Barwood's Campaign. Frances Emma Barwood (former Phoenix City Council
Woman who
dared to ask questions regarding the unexplained lights over Phoenix on
March 13, 1997, is currently successfully running for Arizona Secretary
of State)

For Information Call: (602) 704-1040
Dinner/Lecture - $85
Lecture Only - $50

$25 of each ticket will be donated toward the
BARWOOD CHAMPAIGN FUND

Ticket Outlets:

*Vision Quest Metaphysical Book Store
2525 N. Scottsdale Rd.
Scottsdale, AZ (between Thomas & McDowell)

*Crystal Rose Book Store
115 East Baseline Rd.
Tempe, AZ (SE corner of Mill and Baseline)

*Jan Ross Book Store
6019 N. 35th Avenue
Phoenix, AZ (35th Ave. & Bethany Home Rd.)

*The Wellness Shop
5055 E. Elliot Rd.
Ahwatukee, AZ (at Elliot and 51st St, just off I-10)

Out of State...call to register today,
LIMITED SEATING!!

[END OF ANNOUNCEMENT]

Help end UFO/ET secrecy!
http://www.ufonetwork.com/blueprint/

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:05:58 GMT
From: we-hate@spam-eggs-and-spam.com (UFOnetwork)
Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT: Frances Emma Barwood event with Richard
Hoagland...









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                   St. Paul, Alberta UFO Conference Update

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 01:43:11 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 10:19:41 -0400
Subject: St. Paul, Alberta UFO Conference Update

>From C-News. URL:

http://www.canoe.ca/EdmontonNews/05_n2.html

Stig


*******


July 11, 1998


SHOW BOSS SEES CASH NOT UFOS


By RACHEL EVANS -- Staff Writer=BF ST. PAUL -- Unlike some participants
in a UFO conference that started here yesterday, Gerald Kotowich isn't
convinced by those who see lights in the sky.

But as one of the organizers of the two-day event and a business
booster, he can relate to those who see dollar figures every time
extraterrestrials are mentioned.

"I'm a very non-believer," said Kotowich.

Kotowich became involved with the first UFO conference as a member of
St. Paul's economic development board. The town of 5,000, located 208
km northeast of Edmonton, built a UFO landing pad in 1967 and began a
novelty UFO hotline four years ago.

Still, it's not like he hasn't tried to buy into the tales of alien
abductions and little green men. He watched the X-Files movie to get
into the spirit and came away with an open mind.

"There's something out there," he conceded.

Yeah, but aliens?

"I don't know what it is ... but let's find out."

Then there's fellow board member Randy Brodziak. He's trying to solve a
mystery.

When he was 14 years old he saw two small white circles zoom across the
sky, then vanish. It made him a believer - unlike Kotowich, who admits
he's in the minority.

"I think most of the people are going to be serious," Kotowich said. "I
think the skeptics are afraid to come."

Non-believers may be convinced by tonight.  Speakers will include
Stanton Friedman, a physicist working to prove the Roswell, New Mexico,
UFO crash happened; an Edmonton woman who claims to have been abducted;
and speakers on the mysterious crop circles and cattle mutilations.

Linda Hymanyk, who is selling colorful ceramic alien figurines at the
conference, said she's afraid of what she might learn.

"I want to believe that they don't exist but I'm sure that they do,"
she said. "I think the conference is a great idea because some people
have the fear of the unknown."

Winnipegger Chris Rutkowski said it's not necessary to believe in
aliens in order to believe in UFOs.

"A belief in UFOs is sort of a non-issue," he said after his
presentation yesterday. "UFOs exist because people report unidentified
flying objects," not aliens.

But even though he's a scientist, he admits it deserves more study.
Rutkowski quoted a poll of Canadians that found 78% of people polled
believe there is intelligent life somewhere other than Earth, and 10%
said they had seen a UFO.

More than 300 people registered for the conference yesterday, and
Brodziak expects even more today.


Copyright =A9 1998, Canoe Limited Partnership.
All rights reserved. Please click here for full copyright terms and
restrictions.






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                          UK UFO Flap July 10 (BBC)

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 03:01:38 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 12:03:41 -0400
Subject: UK UFO Flap July 10 (BBC)

From: The BBC.

URL:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_130000/130527.stm

And do go to the site and listen to the audio link (1m 47s)!

Stig

*******

Saturday, July 11, 1998 Published at 06:35 GMT 07:35 UK

Sci/Tech

The Z from outer space

(Image: Lighting up the sky: a meteorite enters the atmosphere)

A large meteorite is being blamed for hundreds of sightings of bright
lights in the sky along the west coast of Britain on Friday evening.

Initially the authorities were baffled about the source of the lights,
which looked like the letter Z or the number 2.

(Audio link: Belfast Coastguard Duty Watch Manager Bungy Williamson:
"It was intriguing")

It was not until early on Saturday morning that an airline pilot who
landed at East Midlands airport was able to provide a rational
explanation.

The pilot reported seeing a large meteorite entering the atmosphere as
he was flying to the UK from France.

He claimed to have watched it breaking up and leaving a long trail in
its wake which was then formed by winds into shapes resembling the
letters.

Throughout Friday evening police and coastguards from Cornwall to
Scotland were inundated with calls from people who spotted the lights,
though most came from people living around the Irish Sea.

Coastguards in Belfast said they had received dozens of 999 calls and
admitted they had seen lights in the sky which they watched for an hour
above the north coast of Ireland.

A spokesman said the lights formed a large Z-shape. "It was very
prominent and was due north of the coastguard station. We were able to
watch it from the windows.

"I can say that I have never seen anything like it before.

"It was a larger shape than the moon but as we were unable to measure
the distance it was impossible to judge its actual size. I made a
drawing of the object which shortly before midnight began to fade.

"It appeared to be moving very slowly westwards. When we first saw the
object it was not completely dark. It was higher than the clouds and
occasionally it was obscured by passing clouds."

Another report was received by Teesside Air Traffic control tower near
Middlesbrough who reported seeing an object resembling the letter Q in
the sky west of their position.

In a statement, the Department of Transport said: "The sightings were
from as far apart as Cornwall to the Clyde, west to Belfast and east to
Leeds.

"Air traffic control systems were contacted and it was established no
aircraft were missing or overdue.

"RAF Fylingdales early warning station reported no undue activity, as
did Jodrell Bank.

"We can only summarize it is space debris or a comet."

Departing perhaps from the dryness associated with the civil service
the statement added: "Coastguard and air traffic control are satisfied
this is not aircraft related, so we can only assume whatever it is
comes from 'out there'."









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                UK Sighting 1978 (Serious Researchers Wanted)

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 02:36:51 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 12:01:08 -0400
Subject: UK Sighting 1978 (Serious Researchers Wanted)

Posted to the newsgroup "uk.rec.ufo" July 10.

Stig


*******


Subject:      Sighting in UK 1978
From:         "Artextra" <john@nospam.artextra.force9.co.uk>
Date:         1998/07/10
Message-ID:   <01bdaa26$a92cb300$LocalHost@default>
Newsgroups:   uk.rec.ufo


In the summer of 1978 I sighted a UFO. I am offering this info to
assist serious researchers and NOT to encourage dialogue from the
"help me meet an alien" brigade.

Location of sighting : Wisbech St. Mary. North Cambs. England.

Date & time : June or July 1978 (can't remember exactly) time
approx 3 am.

No, I had not been drinking / drugs / illness.  My eyesight was
and still is 20/20.

I first flew in a light aircraft at the age of 6 yrs old and was
18 yrs when sighting occurred.  My father holds a private pilots
licence and I have flown and been around aircraft / airfields
from a very young age. The night was warm with a clear sky.

I saw the object and kept it in sight for almost three minutes.
Approx size sixty feet in length, shape being oval. Flying /
hovering height approx 250 feet above sea level.

Did anyone else see / report this ? I can describe in better
detail the object to anyone interested.

No, I am not a crank and this is not a wind-up.

John

--

Please remove  nospam   from my e-mail address
when sending a reply. Anti-spam measure.










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             Scientists Warn Of Most Intense Meteor Storm Since

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk=20
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 03:25:40 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 12:07:40 -0400
Subject: Scientists Warn Of Most Intense Meteor Storm Since

>From the BBC. URL:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_110000/110187.stm

Links are preceded by asterisks.


Stig


*******


Wednesday, June 10, 1998 Published at 11:26 GMT 12:26 UK

Sci/Tech

Scientists warn of meteor storm

(Image: Hubble Space Telescope will be turned away)

Astronomers and satellite operators are preparing for the most intense
bombardment by meteors since 1966. Our science correspondent David
Whitehouse reports.

The Leonid meteor swarm, so called because it appears to come from the
constellation of Leo, strikes the Earth every November.

Most years it isn't very noticeable. But every 33 years or so it can
produce a storm. And the next storm is predicted later this year or in
1999.

According to scientists at the meeting of the American Astronomical
Society in San Diego, the cosmic blizzard could disable satellites in
Earth orbit.

It could also provide a spectacular shooting star show for skygazers.

(Image: The Leonid storm)

There are about a dozen major meteor showers each year, the most famous
being the Perseids in August.

The meteors are tiny grains of dust shed from a comet. The Leonids come
from Comet Temple-Tuttle.

Satellite operators are preparing plans to protect their satellites.
The Hubble Space Telescope will be pointed away from the direction of
the meteors, the space shuttle will not be in space at the time and
many satellites will be turned so that sensitive areas are protected.

(Image: Lynch: storm could sandblast satellites)

According to Dr David Lynch of the Aerospace Corporation in California
thousands of flecks of dust could 'sandblast' many satellites during
the two-hour blizzard. Some satellites could be damaged.

While the storm is a headache for satellite engineers, astronomers are
planning a series of airborne observations to find out as much about
the Leonids as possible.


Relevant Stories


28 May 98|Sci/Tech
*Cosmic clouds threaten Earth

12 Mar 98|Sci/Tech
*Blasts from the past

Internet Links

*The Leonids

The BBC is not responsible for the content of external internet sites.

=A9






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                   UK Mystery Lights: No Meteor Involved?

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 03:46:45 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 12:08:59 -0400
Subject: UK Mystery Lights: No Meteor Involved?

Posted to the newsgroup "uk.rec.ufo" July 11.

Stig

*******

Subject:      Yet another 'meteor'. :)
From:         eadams8221@aol.com (EAdams8221)
Date:         1998/07/11
Message-ID:   <1998071119245100.PAA29964@ladder03.news.aol.com>
Newsgroups:   uk.rec.ufo


This just in (important, so that's why I'm posting)...

A source of mine, who-shall-remain-nameless, phoned me this morning
alerting me to the following: A Z-shaped formation of EXTREMELY bright
lights travelled over the West coast of Britain. Now, the souce THINKS
it might have been from North to South - they're not really sure about
that. The impressive thing is that, unlike the certain incident the
other week, both the Ministry of Defence and the police apparently
issued a statement saying that it was definitely NOT a meteor shower.

Later on in the day, I heard it on the radio news. On this, a coast
guard station said that it was a 'mystery' too (unable to remember
location) and that a civilian airliner called in to report, what they
termed as a "meteor". I THINK I also heard something about an
explanation being given for the thing being a meteor shower, so I'm
still waiting for confirmation on this (although whether it came from
some astronomer who was just being quick off the mark, or the MoD or
some such institution, I don't know).

I have no information regarding speeds or altitude, but a Z-shaped
formation would cast extreme doubt on the 'natural' case. I'm awaiting
the outcome of this, but there isn't much coverage of these events here
in the UK. I still
feel that this is all part of a 'flap' which is concentrating here in
the UK - even though there is little or no media coverage. If my guess
is correct, then it should last into about August (perhaps September) -
I have my reasons! :)

PS: New stuff just come in. From Ceefax and Teletext, the following has
come to light. It was around midnight this morning (11 June 1998). They
travelled from Scotland to Cornwall. They were seen in 'Z', 'Q' and '2'
shaped formations (although I would say that '2' and 'Z' may well be
interchangeable). An un-named pilot (probably from the civilian
airliner, although it may have been a different one), said that he saw
them 'arrange' themselves into a pattern of a 'Z'/'2'. The MoD
previously said that there were no meteors on the time in question.
Now, all of a sudden, our favorite Defenders of the Realm are saying
that there WAS a meteor shower! :) People at the Isle of Man called in
noting a "huge explosion". A meteor would produce one, but not in such
a magnitude - or so I would have thought.

Incidentally, this source also alerted me to the rather strange
incident involving the Tornado F-3, the wreckage of which was
discovered (officially) and the body of ONE of the crewmembers was
found. That came to me before breaking on the news too.

- Eric

---------

"Be wary of any book with no references and no index."

"Friedman's law is that progress comes from doing things differently in
an unpredicatable way."

- Both by Stanton Friedman.









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                          BWW Media Alert 19980711

From: Bufo Calvin <BufoCalvin@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 23:48:11 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 12:37:13 -0400
Subject: BWW Media Alert 19980711


Bufo Calvin
P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA  94596
Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Website: <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin">http://members.aol.com/bufo
calvin<;/a>
<A HREF="surprise link to Amazon.com">http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=048
6230945/bufosweirdworldA/<;/a>
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this
edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that attribution is made
to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with
strangers before you e-mail them something.  If you forward this, please make
sure it is clear that you are forwarding it).

July 11, 1998

First, my apologies.  I don't always check THE UNEXPLAINED on A&E, because if
often covers things which I don't think are appropriate to this list.  I did
miss one on the "saucer seekers" (featuring Bill Hamilton, author of (
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0938294733/bufosweirdworld">
Cosmic Top Secret</A> ).  It's been a very busy week for me: as some of you
know, I'm a computer trainer (no, I don't train the computers...I train people
to use them ;) ).  This week, I was teaching Advanced FileMaker Pro 4 for the
first time that anyone had done it at my facility.  I had to write some of the
curriculum, and that kept me busy.  By the way, if you want to get your
database on the Web, FMPro 4 has a very impressive, easy way to do it.
Anyway, as people who go back with me a long way on this know, I used to cover
things far more in depth.  Just don't have enough time right now.  Another one
of my frustrations in life is that I can't report the SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO (
<A HREF="http://www.sightings.com/about/guests.htm">sor-program guests</A> )
listing each week.  I usually prepare this now on Saturday morning, and the
next week isn't up by then.  Jeff Rense is the best host with whom I have ever
done a full show...there used to be some archives with me on there: they may
still be there.  Jeff presents a reasonably balanced viewpoint, and likes to
let the guests do most of the talking.  This isn't to slight the host of my
regular spot: Eddie Middleton on NIGHTSEARCH.   That's only a short segment,
and I've never actually heard him interview anybody (since I live in
California, and he's out of Memphis).

Also, CNI News (  <A HREF="http://www.cninews.com/">CNI News Home Page</A>
)was kind enough to inform me that the ROSIE O'DONNEL show with Whitley
Strieber is supposedly scheduled for July 20.  The tabloids have claimed that
she is coming out as an abductee on it.  She's friends with Dan Akyroyd (who
knows an incredible amount about weird stuff), but don't count on a definitive
declaration.

On to the listings!  Times are generally Pacific unless otherwise stated.

Television

THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL
Sunday, July 12, 1:00 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S WORLD OF STRANGE POWERS: AN
ELEMENT OF THE DIVINE (dowsing)
Sunday, July 12, 1:30 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: CROP CIRCLES
Sunday, July 12, 2:00 PM, ANIMAL X: SUPERSTITIONS
Wednesday, July 15, 10:00 PM, THE SCIENCE OF THE IMPOSSIBLE: INVISIBLE FORCES
(remote viewing, ESP, etc.)
Thursday, July 16, 1:00 AM, THE SCIENCE OF THE IMPOSSIBLE: INVISIBLE FORCES
(remote viewing, ESP, etc.)
Sunday, July 19, 5:00 PM, THE SCIENCE OF THE IMPOSSIBLE: INVISIBLE FORCES
(remote viewing, ESP, etc.)

THE LEARNING CHANNEL
Thursday, July 16, 7:00 PM, UFOS: ABOVE AND BEYOND (hosted by James Doohan)
Thursday, July 16, 10:00 PM, UFOS: ABOVE AND BEYOND (hosted by James Doohan)

THE SCI-FI CHANNEL

They've increased the SIGHTINGS re-runs, although they've gotten a bit quirky
with the schedule.  Figure 9:00 AM, 4:00 PM, and 8:00 PM most weekdays.
Sundays are typically 8:00 AM and 11:00 PM.

THE SCIENCE CHANNEL
Runs weird programming at 6:00 AM, 6:30 AM, 2:00 PM, 2:30 PM, 10:00 PM, and
10:30 PM.
___________________________

This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!"
____________________________

You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly
redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by
e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com.  You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to
Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert the same way. Also, please let me know if
there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, t
he week before.
_____________________________

**OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an
Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS
encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions:
however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece
or others presented under my own name.  For more information on OPUS, see its we
bsite at http://members.aol.com/josephxx3






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              Seeking Intelligent Life Out There And Right Here

From: Mark LeCuyer <randydan@wavetech.net>
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 01:32:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 12:40:28 -0400
Subject: Seeking Intelligent Life Out There And Right Here


Source: MSNBC's Space News July 10
Space: the final and best frontier
Seeking intelligent life out there and right here
By Athena Andreadis

I believe in math. All less-than-zero probabilities carried to
infinity are certainties, which is why I know that E.T. will phone
one day. Whether we'll be able to carry a meaningful conversation is
a separate topic but, given the odds, it's a sure bet E.T. - or some
other form of extra-terrestrial life - is out there.

Neither Earth nor the solar system will live forever. The search for
life on other planets offers a new idea of what it means to be human.

IT'S IN THE numbers. There's a famous equation which makes the point,
called the Drake equation after Frank Drake of the SETI Institute who
formulated it for Project Ozma in 1960. It calculates the number of
civilizations capable of long-range communication.

The equation has seven terms. The first three address astrophysical
and geological questions =97 the rate of star formation, the fraction
of stars with planets and the number of Earthlike planets within each
system. The last four address chemical and biological questions =97 the
fraction of planets on which life develops and flourishes long enough
to develop intelligence, then technology and then ultimately becomes
mature enough not to destroy itself before sending out an obvious
signal of its presence.

Twenty years ago, as a Harvard undergrad, I listened to a taped
lecture by Carl Sagan, in which he went through the Drake equation.
Twenty years ago, we knew just a bit about the first term, and
nothing about the others. In the years since, we've witnessed stars
form, flare, dim and die. In the last three years, we saw star orbits
wobble from what could only be surrounding planets. Two months ago,
we gazed at the first pictures of a planetary system forming, a dark
ring around a star, a celestial embryo in its first division. And a
few weeks ago, the Hubble telescope directly photographed a rogue
planet streaking away from nearby stars.

All of these observations essentially set the first three terms of
the Drake equation to values close to one, and serve to remind us,
again, that Earth's experience is not so unique after all. In fact,
given that only a few stars were sampled for planets, we might be
just another block in the Levittown we call the universe. Earth is
not so unique after all. We might be just another block in the
Levittown we call the universe.

So now we're left with the other four terms of the Drake equation,
which deal with chemistry - of planets, as well as of brains - and
which have not yet been systematically explored. Still, answers have
been accumulating to reassure us that life on Earth is not an odd
accident, not an isolated shooting star destined to burn unobserved.

Even within our own solar system, we have met with encouraging hints
wherever we've sent a craft with sensitive instruments. Water, the
solvent that would support life forms similar to us, exists in the
atmosphere of Titan, under the surface of Europa and in the Martian
polar caps. Several other planets have conditions similar to those in
hot sulfur springs, polar regions and ocean depths. Such locales may
be hell for creatures who utilize oxygen and prefer ambient
temperatures. Nevertheless, they teem with exotic life. Finally,
there is the unusual soil chemistry of Mars, and its abundance of
optically active quartz. An equally "exotic" chemistry of silicon
scaffolds supporting complex carbon compounds heralded the dawn of
life on Earth.

With the intractable problems on Earth, why should we care if there
is life beyond our planet? Because what makes us human is our ability
and need to venture into the unknown. At this point, we have overrun
Earth, leaving no more space to experiment, no new lands to discover,
no frontier - except for the ersatz thrills of cyberspace.

Having neither a strong antagonist nor a great cause to unite us, we
have become navel-watchers, despoilers and cannibals, just like rats
when they are confined in too small a cage. Without real challenges,
we invent artificial ones that are often malign. Our spirits are
shrinking along with our boundaries, giving rise to endless petty
disputes, random Balkanization, social fragmentation and a sense of
free fall. Without real challenges, we invent aritificial ones that
are often malign. Our spirits are shrinking along with our
boundaries, giving rise to endless petty disputes.

The discovery of life on another planet - or even of conditions
favorable for life - will reopen outlets which are now dammed (as
well as guarantee our long-term survival, since neither Earth nor our
solar system will live for ever). The pursuit of these questions will
not only infinitely expand our scientific knowledge, but will also
grant us a new definition of what it means to be human, just as each
discovery about the terms of the Drake equation has led us to
re-evaluate our vision of the universe and our position in it. By
providing endless nourishment for our irreducible needs as an
exploring, curious race, space is not the final but the best
frontier.

From: Mark - Alien Astronomer
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583






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                          Nua Blather: Weird Achill

From: Dave Walsh <dave@nua.ie>
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:32:16 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 12:45:07 -0400
Subject: Nua Blather: Weird Achill

*******************************************************************
NUA BLATHER  NUA BLATHER NUA BLATHER
Weekly free email of Dogma Destruction,
Forteana and High Weirdness

By Daev Walsh   Email: blather@nua.ie
Web: http://www.nua.ie/blather/
*******************************************************************
July 10 1998  Published By:  Nua Limited  Vol 2. No. 9
*******************************************************************

MYSTERIOUS ACHILL

Previously in Blather, in *Baaaaah-Humbug*
(http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/issue2no2.html), and *Rocks from
Irish Skies* (http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/issue1no33.html), we
mentioned the ongoing debacle at the Achill Island House of Prayer.

Alleged stigmatic Mrs. Christina Gallagher and what appears to be a
cult following of sorts have been claiming minor miracles there. Back
before Christmas 1997, the Archbishop of Tuam held an inquiry,
concluding that there was no evidence that "supernatural phenomena of
whatever kind" was taking place at The House of Prayer.
(http://www.irish-times.com/irish-times/paper/1997/1217/hom30.html)

On May 6th, The Connaught Telegraph told of a newly enforced Sunday
Mass "ban" at the House of Prayer.
(http://www.mayo-ireland.ie/ConnTel/CT9805/CT980513/Mass.htm)

Now, to cap it all, the House, which, according to the Irish Times,
attracts 10,000 pilgrims and generates IR500,000 pounds locally ever
year, is to close. Mrs. Gallagher announced that this is due to the
restrictions placed on the centre and the prying involvement of the
church, saying that while the Catholic Church dictated, they had
refrained from negotiation. The Irish Times quoted Mrs. G as saying
that she was "putting the record straight. I don't want any hassle
with the bishop. I surrender to his authority and pray that God will
receive all, because God knows all."

Oddly enough, Father Brendan Kilcoyne, who is secretary to the
Archbishop of Tuam, denied that the church had anything to do with
the closure. He said that while the House of Prayer was meant as
nothing more than a religious retreat centre, '"Very quickly it
became something different, a kind of de facto shrine. What Archbishop
Neary was trying to do was bring it closer to the structures of the
church, and inevitably that brought certain restrictions."'
(Irish Times July 4th 1998
http://www.irish-times.com/irish-times/paper/1998/0704/hom33.html)


Achill (*Acaill*, eagle, from *aquila*) is a veritable pocket
of fortean enigma. For those who are unfamiliar with the place, it's
a large bleak yet beautiful island off the West coast of Ireland, and
connected to the County Mayo mainland by a narrow bridge.
It has an area of some 50 sq. miles (129.5 sq. km), measures 14 miles
(22.4km) east to west and 12 miles (19.2km) north to south, with some
80 miles (128km) of coastline (Achill Island Map and Guide, Bob
Kingston 1988).

Praeger describes it thus:

        'Achill, wind-swept and bare, heavily peat-covered, with great
        gaunt brown mountains rising here and there, and a wild coast
        hammered by the Atlantic waves on all sides but the east, has a
        strange charm which everyone feels, but none can fully explain.'


(Robert Lloyd Praeger, *The Way That I Went* 1937, republished 1997
by The Collins Press ISBN 1-898-256-357)

Not only do we have alleged stigmata and other 'miracles' at the
House of Prayer at Pollagh, but back towards Achill Sound, near the
bridge, we have Sraheens Lough, previously mentioned in *Blather on
Tour*(http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/issue1no19.html) and
*Kanga-Ruse* (http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/issue1no21.html). The
Lough made front pages news in the Evening Herald of June 4th 1966,
due to alleged lake monster sightings there.

Oddly enough, Praeger makes a not insignificant mention of a
*different* lake to Sraheens:

        '. . .you can visit Bunnafreeva Lough, perched on the edge of the
        huge cliff with another cliff overhanging it -- a place so lonely
        and sterile and primeval that one might expect to see the *piast*
        or other Irish water-monster rising from the inky depths of the
        tarn.' (*The Way That I Went*)

Achill was in the news recently due to the ongoing battle between two
members of the Achill Sound community, downhill through the
rhododendrons from Sraheens Lough. Last year, a *High* court case
involved the incessant crowing of Mrs. Moira Gallagher's
rooster (another Gallagher!), which was driving Mr. Peter Masterson
batty. Now they're at it again, with Masterson claiming that
Gallagher is 'directing constant loud music at his house and throwing
dog droppings on his driveway'. 64 year old Gallagher spent three
weeks in jail last year over her refusal to get rid of her cockerel
and to build a boundary wall. The rooster has passed away, the wall
was built, and they're still at it. The local gardai have been keeping
surveillance on the Masterson driveway to determine the source of the
dog turds, a wonderful job I'm sure. Mrs. G has been fined IR200
pounds for harassment, but has been let away with the dog-poo charges,
due to lack of. . . evidence. . .
(Irish Times July 10th 1998
http://www.irish-times.com/irish-times/paper/1998/0710/hom27.html)


A smidgen less recently -- according to Peter Alderson Smith in
*Fortean Phenomena in the Annals of the Four Masters* (Fortean Times
54:51)-- John O'Donovan, who translated the Annals for publication in
1848 and 1851, made mention of a fish-fall near Slievemore, on the
north of the island back in 1831. And of course, the famous pirate
Grace O'Malley (a.k.a. Granuaile, c.1530-1603) had a castle at Achill
Sound. . .(http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~jaymin/sca/Granuail.htm)



RTE GETS WEIRD
On July 9th, Blather's ears caught the tail end of a rather
surprising discussion on the usually sober Irish national radio
station RTE Radio 1.

The magazine programme *Short Circuit* interviewed a gentleman, whose
name seems to be 'Laurence John' (I'm open to correction on this)
from Co. Louth who had been 'abducted by aliens'. This man had a
matter of fact way of discussing his experiences, telling the
interviewer about the trials and tribulations of dealing with scathing
detractors and wags. He seemed sincere, and had obviously had a
profound experience of some sort -- I like to use the word *epiphany*.
Apparently -- at least from -- from what I could make out, Mr. John
(?) had been outside his house -- about to leave for an appointment
when the 'abduction' took place - he was brought off to a 'UFO' (no
comment), examined given some sort of 'message' - something like usual
'mankind must mend its ways' lecture, and dumped back home again, an
hour later. At least, when he realised he was 'back', he was where had
begun, and an hour had passed. Oddly enough, he seems to have had a
dog with him, which also got abducted, and chattered away in dog-speak
to the alien abductors. The abductee explained that he didn't
understand these conversations, as he didn't speak the language.
Blather will endevour to procure more information about this case.

Interesting though, for an island of just over 5 million people
(3,621,035 for the Republic, 1996 census. 1,577,836 for Northern
Ireland, 1991 census), we really do seem to be holding our own with
regard to UFOs, abductions etc.


GET COMFORTABLE
Check out Andy Robert's *The Armchair Ufologist*, for some
informative dissection of the madness currently taking place within
ufology, particularly in Britain. . .
(http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/armchair/index.html)


Dave (daev) Walsh
Friday June 10th, 1998



Feedback and comments to <blather@nua.ie>

Have your say: http://www.nua.ie/blather/blabber

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Internet World Ireland Conference
Venue: Dublin   Date: Tuesday, October 20th 1998
Conference Title: The Network Economy
Conference Organisers: Internet World Ireland, Nua

The Internet creates a Network Economy, a network connecting people
and business, not machines. This conference will explore the business
rules for operating with a network environment.

The conference organisers are honoured to have Esther Dyson as
keynote speaker. Naming her Number 12 in Upside's Elite 100, Upside
recently wrote that Dyson's "stature is based entirely on her
ability to influence others with her ideas rather than directly
control companies or huge amounts of capital."

The topics that the Network Economy Conference will to cover include:
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studies that illustrate best business practice within a network
environment.

Send a 200 word synopsis of proposed talk before July 15th to:
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Golf Club Ireland and Local Ireland, are staging one of the first
ever Internet fundraising projects. On and offline events are
expected to raise IEP20,000 for the homeless children of Ethiopia.

You can help by adding your signature. For each signature received,
our sponsors, Jurys Hotel Group and Sonaco Travel Club will donate
IEP 0.10 to the project.
<http://golfforgoal.local.ie/signatures.shtml>

Get involved in the charity Golfing Tournament to be held on Fri.
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and brands.

For further information on how Nua can help your organisation get the
best out of the Internet, contact our marketing director, Mary Gorman
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Nua has received an array of awards since its genesis in 1996. Among
those are the coveted "Best Overall World Wide Web Business
Achievement" the top prize for website development in Europe.
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Blather: http://www.nua.ie/blather - Weekly paranormal meanderings






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                 Lights In Sky Leave Britain In Grip Of The

From: John Hayes <ufoinfo@cableinet.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 11:07:30 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 12:50:02 -0400
Subject: Lights In Sky Leave Britain In Grip Of The

SOURCE: The Sunday Mirror (UK) July 12th 1998

Lights in sky leave Britain in grip of the 'Z-Files'

by LEO SPALL

WEIRD "Z" shapes lighting up the sky over Britain sparked hundreds of calls
in an X Files-type riddle yesterday.

People from Cornwall to Scotland reported the huge dazzling display.

One aircraft pilot called in to say he'd seen what appeared to be an
explosion in the sky above the Isle of Man.

Teesside air traffic control tower, near Newcastle upon Tyne, also reported
a sighting.

A Department Of Transport spokesman said: "We had sightings from the Clyde
and west to Belfast and east to Leeds."

Belfast coastguard Rowlston Williams watched for more than an hour when the
sky lit up around midnight on Friday.

He said: "I have never seen anything like it. When we first saw the object,
it was not completely dark.

"Whatever it was, it appeared to be moving very slowly westwards.

"It seemed larger than the moon and higher than the clouds."

UFO researcher Ron Barrett said: "There have been numerous people who have
seen these lights but not in these sort of shapes."

Defence officials at RAF Fylingdales, the Yorkshire-based early-warning
station reported no undue activity.

But a pilot flying from France to the Midlands solved the mystery when he
reported a meteorite.

A spokesman for the Coastguard Agency said: "It was very spectacular but
can be explained.

"The lights that so many people saw were caused by a meteorite breaking up
as it entered the Earth's atmosphere.

"The big 'Z' vapour trail was hanging there for a while. It was a mystery
at the time - but it was not an alien craft."

The boulder disintegrated as it entered the Earth's atmosphere, leaving a
bright trail of strange shapes.

[END ARTICLE]


John Hayes

ufoinfo@cableinet.co.uk
webmaster@ufoinfo.com

UFOINFO:- http://ufoinfo.com
UFO Roundup:- http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/
Filer's Files:- http://ufoinfo.com/filer/







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                   Re: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights

From: Doc Barry in Phoenix <authority@webtv.net>
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 01:23:33 -0700 (MST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 12:48:27 -0400
Subject: Re: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights

Dear Don Ledger,

Maximum burn time of flares is six minutes.  The flyover of
Arizona (never was confined to Phoenix) was a 200 mile flight
path from Kingman in the north to Tucson in the south.  Sightings
lasted for over two hours.

Hundreds of witnesses, videos taken by ordinary citizens from
varied locations, huge crafts (estimated by pilots as larger than
football field), absolutely silent, slowing at times to 35mph,
with altitudes as low as 300 feet, with lights ON (not stealth),
should be regarded as a major unexplained incident, but is
remembered since 3/13/97 as "flares over Phoenix" by most media.

Doc Barry
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/5518/







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               Time Travel - Quantum Strangeness And Spacetime

From: Mark LeCuyer <randydan@wavetech.net>
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 02:05:20 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 12:42:23 -0400
Subject: Time Travel - Quantum Strangeness And Spacetime


From: Mark - Alien Astronomer
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583

Source: Strange Magazine
QUANTUM STRANGENESS AND SPACETIME
by Sherrill Roberts

There was a young lady named bright,
Who traveled much faster than light.
She started one day
in a relative way,
and returned on the previous night.
A. H. Reginald Buller(1)

-------------------------------------------------

This article was originally published in Strange Magazine 14
(Fall, 1994).


While we are no longer so naive as to think that a mechanical device
such as H.G. Wells's Time Machine could be easily built, the "new
physics" offers us tantalizing glimpses of the possibility of time
travel, possibly utilizing forces and entities which exist, at least
theoretically, in our universe today. "The notion you can move
forward and back in time is allowed by some of the new ideas in
physics," says Jeffrey R. Kuhn, a physics and astronomy professor at
Michigan State University.(2)

The scientific premises suggesting a theoretical time travel
mechanism are Einstein's Theory of Relativity and its successor,
quantum mechanics. Einstein's inclusion of time as simply another
basic dimension of physical reality, like width and height, and his
mathematical equations using the speed of light as a cosmic "speed
limit," paved the way for quantum mechanics' description of the
physical universe in terms of black holes, singularities, and "cosmic
strings," concepts which at times defy "rationality."(3) MIT
Professor Alan Guth has given us a concise summary of the Theory of
Relativity: "Space tells matter how to move. Matter tells space how
to curve."(4)

If we envision the concept of spacetime as a bedsheet held at the
four corners, we can immediately see these implications of Relativity
if we place a tennis ball in the center of the sheet; the flat sheet
of spacetime is distorted into a curve with the ball at the center,
matter telling space how to curve. If we place a second ball on the
surface, the new ball rolls toward the indentation made by the first,
curved space telling matter how to move. If we place a bowling ball
in the center of our flat spacetime, the indentation will be very
deep, possibly tearing a hole in the fabric of our spacetime, a black
hole. If we view spacetime from beneath the flat sheet, we will see
the bowling ball as a protruding shape, the black hole has emerged on
the "other side of time" as a white hole or possibly a wormhole.(5)

Keeping this scenario in mind, it becomes clear that what is needed
for time travel is an object which is massive enough to create a
significant distortion of spacetime, something larger and heavier
than a ping-pong ball on the surface of our bedsheet.(6) A brief
review of some of the current concepts in physics reveals several
likely candidates.

Black holes occur when stars of a certain size use up all of their
nuclear fuel. A star in such a situation begins to shrink and become
very dense; the more dense it becomes, the greater its gravitational
field, to the point that nothing, not even light, can escape. An
additional effect is a distortion of spacetime (predicted by
Einstein) with a resultant slowing of time itself. Theorists
speculate that at its heart a black hole must contain a
"singularity," a single point of infinite density where the laws of
quantum mechanics no longer apply, an "edge" of the universe and of
time itself. A person or object entering the singularity would be
subjected to stretching and squeezing (literally squeezed out of
existence), and would not survive to report the experience. However,
there are those who speculate that a free-fall trajectory which takes
a spacecraft close to the black hole, but not close enough to be
swallowed by the singularity, would effectively be a one-way time
machine.

"By choosing the right path around the black hole, such a journey,
which might take a few hours according to the clocks on the falling
spacecraft, could be made to take as long as you like according to
the outside Universe. A hundred years, a thousand years, or longer,"
writes John Gribbin in his book Unveiling the Edge of Time.(7)

Physicist John Wheeler has theorized that a black hole produces a
"wormhole" spewing vast amounts of energy into another, distant area
of the universe or into another region of spacetime.(8) White holes
are a similar concept, except that they are postulated to be the
result of other universes' black holes, spilling matter and energy
into our universe. In fact, what we call "the universe" may be a
number of universes connected by wormholes. The time-travel aspects
of wormholes were addressed by a consortium of Russian and American
physicists; their scenario involves using gravitational attraction to
"tow" one mouth of the wormhole until it rests alongside its opposite
end, like laying the two ends of a garden hose together; since time
is a physical property of each wormhole mouth, a traveler jumping
into one mouth would emerge from the other mouth at the corresponding
time in that mouth's region of spacetime. The difference could be a
few hours or milennia, depending upon the disparity in spacetime
between the two mouths.(9)

The most exotic theoretical cosmic "objects," and the most difficult
to visualize, are the "strings" of energy which may be remnants of
the original Big Bang. Strings are "thin loops of ultradense energy,
far narrower than the nucleus of an atom, but stretching across vast
distances."(10)

Princeton physicist J. Richard Gott has calculated that cosmic
strings warp spacetime sufficiently for a spaceship to outrace a
light ray, and that two strings moving past one another in opposite
directions would change the shape of spacetime to such an extent
that, "a spacecraft looping around the pair of strings could return
to its starting point before it had left."(11)

"Time present and time past
Are both perhaps present in time future."
T.S. Eliot, "Burnt Norton"

Paradoxes inherent in time travel have provided inspiration for
numerous science fiction tales. Assuming that a civilization has the
technical capability to orbit black holes and move wormhole mouths,
there is still the question of the time traveler's journey into the
past and his possible influence on his own present existence. This
issue has been called the "granny paradox,"so named because a time
traveler in the past could cause the demise of his/her own
grandmother and would cease to exist in the present. One attempt to
resolve the granny paradox is Hugh Everett's "many-worlds"
interpretation of quantum mechanics.(12) Everett's hypothesis is
that, at the quantum level, all possible states potentially exist and
that a universe confronted with a choice brings both realities into
being.(13) Everett's theory is consistent with certain experimental
findings that photons (light particles) exist simultaneously as
particles and as waves, so the possibility of an infinite number of
parallel universes is not as far-fetched as it may seem. Other
speculations on the time-travel paradox hold that a person traveling
back from the future would not be "allowed" by circumstances, to do
anything which would jeopardize his or her future existence.(14)
Given the massive distortions of spacetime involved in time travel, a
person would need to think very carefully about the possibility of
returning to find all his friends long dead, his apartment rented,
and his job nonexistent. Perhaps Stephen Hawking is correct in
assuming that the laws of quantum mechanics preclude time travel, as,
"we have not been invaded by hordes of tourists from the future."(15)

FOOTNOTES:

1.Martin Gardner, The Relativity Explosion (NY: Vintage Books, 1976),
p. 131.
2.Paul Overeiner, "Time Travel: It May Be Possible, But Don't Buy a
Ticket Yet," Jackson Citizen Patriot, 4/1/92.
3.John Travis, "Could a Pair of Cosmic Strings Open a Route Into the
Past?" Science 256, 4/10/92, p. 179.
4.John Gribbin, Unveiling the Edge of Time (NY: Crown, 1992), p. 219.
5.Gardner, pp.102, 173.
6.Hughey, op. cit.
7.Gribbin, pp. 147-149.
8.Ibid., p. 153.
9.Ibid., pp. 206-208.
10.Ibid., p. 230.
11.Travis, op. cit.
12.David Deutsch and Michael Lockwood, "The Quantum Physics of Time
Travel," Scientific American, March 1994, p. 72.
13.Gribbin, p. 188.
14.Deutsch, p. 71.
15.Travis, p. 180.

--------------------------------------------------

This article was originally published in Strange Magazine 14 (Fall,
1994).







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 12

                      Re: UFOR - Uri Geller on 'Aviary'

From: Joe Murgia <Ufojoe1@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 09:54:02 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 12:54:12 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOR - Uri Geller on 'Aviary'


>Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:39:10 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Sean Liddle <gortrix@intranet.ca>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFOR - Uri Geller on 'Aviary'>

>HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

>I am amazed that Mr. Geller has enough credability left in his
>name that a web server would allow him space for his site without
>paying for five years fees in advance..  Mr. Geller was proven a
>fake "psychic" many, many years ago, and I thought he had
>disappeared to become a weed man on a kibbutz somewhere.. This
>kind of nonsense only strengthens my beliefs that when we allow
>wackos to promote our beliefs, we look farcical, and thats why
>the media ignores our credible reports.. >>

Proven a fake psychic? By who? The Amazing Randi? Wow, he's very
unbiased when it comes to psychic research. I guess if he says
it, it must be true huh?

Only problem is that Geller has done things under laboratory
research conditions that to this day still baffle the scientists
that were open minded enough to give him a chance.

It's funny. In a Randi book. Geller is given a "hit" on numerous
psychic experiments. Randi then goes on to say that Geller could
have had somebody feeding the information to him through a
walkie talkie type device in Geller's ear or maybe Geller had
somebody knocking on the wall giving him clues. Okay...

Randi will never accept psychic funtioning as long as he has a
vested $$$ interest in the outcome.

Joe in Tampa






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                   Re: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights

From: Susan Baldwin <sblee@stc.net>
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 10:38:58 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 13:23:08 -0400
Subject: Re: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights


>Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 11:39:11 +0100
>From: Donald  Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights

>>From: Susan Baldwin <sblee@stc.net>
>>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights
>>Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 19:56:29 -0400

>>I don't know about the rest of the crew here but it's hard for me
>>to look at those shows from a non-believer's perspective. That
>>might be the best opinion to get.

>>Susan

>This was my first opportunity to view the Phoenix Lights on
>video. I would have preferred to see more of them from different
>angles, however they appeared to be over a populated area. THAT
>rules out flares. If the Air Guard or the USAF in any way
>admitted to dropping flares in a populated area, not to mention
>a FAA controlled airspace, somebody's ass would be grass as they
>say.

>On the screen,the lights seemed to be in a semicircular pattern
>rather than "V" shaped, as if on the leading edge of monstrous
>disk, however  that might have been due to the vantage point of
>the camera. A&E at least tried to do a balanced job of the show
>without too much hype.

>Don Ledger

I agree they were amazing shots weren't they? And not nearly
enough of them. Whatever it was, I could watch it for hours.

I know we have discussed them here quite a bit but its still
astonishing to watch the lights just hang there. To my uninformed
eyes a row of planes seems much more logical than flares anyday.
I wished they had superimposed the pattern over the lights to
give a better idea of the shape that some eyewitnesses claimed to
see.


Susan








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                   Re: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 11:50:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 13:27:29 -0400
Subject: Re: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights


>Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 11:39:11 +0100
>From: Donald  Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights


>This was my first opportunity to view the Pheonix Lights on
>video. I would have preferred to see more of them from different
>angles, however they appeared to be over a populated area. THAT
>rules out flares. If the Air Guard or the USAF in any way
>admitted to dropping flares in a populated area, not to mention
>a FAA controlled airspace, somebody's ass would be grass as they
>say.

I'm sure if the Guard dropped flares outside the restricted range
they would be very hesitatant to admit it!


>As for the supposition that these were flares from 60 miles
>away, the fact that Pheonix is below sea level and the curvature
>of the Earth would rule that out unless the flares were dropped
>at 40-50,000 feet or 8-10 miles up, and then what would be the
>point.

I don't know what you mean by Phoenix being "below sea level."
Most of Phoenix is between 1000 and 1200 ft. The nearby
surrounding hills range up to 4300 ft (Mt Montezuma in the
Estrellas) and there is a peak at 4512 in the Estrellas which
forms the backdrop for Mr. Krzyston, whose house is at an
altitude of about 1600 feet (his house to the north of the
center of Phoenix and overlooks the western half of the city
because a nearby hill blocks his view of the eastern half). The
4512 peak is about 26 miles away. Therefore could see flares 60
miles away if they were above 1600 ft + (60 miles) x(4500
ft-1600 ft)/(26 miles) = 8300 ft.

>They are meant to light up the ground below and would be
>of little use way up there.

They drop the flares from 15,000 and above, sometimes. I
CONJECTURE that they use night vision devices to see the ground
illuminated by the flares.

>On the screen,the lights seemed to be in a semicircular pattern
>rather than "V" shaped, as if on the leading edge of monsterous
>disk

I suspect that this is a typical newsmedia mix up of the
Krzyston video of the "arc of lights" with the testimony and a
single video of the V shape of lights. (Krzyston's video
generally gets a lot of media play because it is so
"interesting", with the lights coming on one after another and
forming a neat arc. Just remember, media in, garbage out!)





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 12

                   Re: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 04:14:03 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 13:33:48 -0400
Subject: Re: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights

>Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 11:39:11 +0100
>From: Donald  Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights


>>From: Susan Baldwin <sblee@stc.net>
>>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights
>>Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 19:56:29 -0400

>>>Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 21:57:43 -0700
>>>From: frances emma barwood <fbarwood@primenet.com>
>>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>>Subject: 'The Unexplained' & Phoenix Lights

>>>This Thursday on A&E channel there will be a show called "The
>>>Unexplained".  It is supposed to be about the Phoenix Lights and the
>>>producer called me this evening to let me know so that I would watch
>>>it.  He said that I am in it.  Hope it is good.

>>>Let me know what you thought of it after you watch.

>>>Thanks, Frances

>>Frances

>>I think you deserve a big "attagirl" for sticking your political
>>neck out. The skeptics in my opinion were the ones that came off
>>looking like fools. No matter how rationally you discuss UFOs
>>though its not going to go down like discussing world peace,
>>unfortunately.

>>I don't know about the rest of the crew here but it's hard for me
>>to look at those shows from a non-believer's perspective. That
>>might be the best opinion to get.

>>I think the show presented you as a truth-seeker which is what
>>most of us are, in all our variations.

>>Susan

Don writes:

>This was my first opportunity to view the Pheonix Lights on
>video. I would have preferred to see more of them from different
>angles, however they appeared to be over a populated area. THAT
>rules out flares. If the Air Guard or the USAF in any way
>admitted to dropping flares in a populated area, not to mention
>a FAA controlled airspace, somebody's ass would be grass as they
>say.

Speaking of the FAA, no-one (FAA included) has bothered to track
down the _commercial_pilot_ that called into the Pheonix tower
personel requesting instructions because he had the thing/
object/flare(?) overhead as he approached for a landing. This
-fact- was reported twice on local (Phoenix) newscasts (I have
copies of both broadcasts) and yet nobody researching this thing
has tried to track down this _key_witness_ and 'try to'
interview him!

The eyewitness testimony of highly skilled professional(s) would
go a long way toward clearing up what has become a cloudy mess.
I pluralized "professionals" lest we forget that if this was
indeed a 'commercial flight' that the pilot was accompanied in
the cockpit by a co-pilot, a navigator, and maybe passenger
witnesses who may also have been firsthand witnesses to the
"event." Unless I missed something along the way, (and I doubt
it because I've followed this one very closely since day two!)
I've heard no mention made of the pilot.

Re: Our freaking Airforce,

I had dismissed that one as cover-up BS based on the fact that
the Airforce came out with that "visiting Maryland unit"
dropping flares during field training excersizes at Barry
Goldwater test range _months_ after the fact. When Luke AFB was
called on _the_eve_ of the event they "denied having _any_
knowledge" and told inquiring local reporters that "no military
excersizes or activities had taken place or had been scheded for
that particular night." When they came up with the "Maryland
unit" thing I figured that such a story told so long after the
fact with them having had ample oportunity to concoct (and
arrange to verify) it, kind of disqualified it as unreliable. I
dismissed it as a "possible" attemp at cover-up. Sombody at Luke
AFB _had_to_have_known_ that a whole goddam unit was out
lighting up the skies over Goldwater range whether it was for
the purpose of testing flares or to practice bombing the hell
out of it! It's just too convenient on the part of the AF. I
wholeheartedly agree with Don that the Phoenix sighting is far
from being a "dead" issue.

>I see that Jim Dilettoso [sp] is still with us.

I wouldn't count _that_one_ as much of a 'plus' Don. <EG> It
would be prudent to seperate Dilettoso from the event and the
eyewitness testimony of all those local residents. Dilettoso is
an albatross around the neck of this case. His ties to the
always controversial Billy Maeier case and the Elders kind of
puts him on the "bench" as far as I'm concerned.

He wasn't a firsthand witness. His insistance on an ET
explanation of the event (almost since day one) amounts to
_pure_speculation_ on his part. His (questionable) analysis
aside, such a thing (ET origin) could not be proven even if the
sighting is eventually determined to be an actual object of
unknown manufacture or origin floating in the skies over Pheonix
on that night. How could anyone declare with any degree of
certainty that the "occupants" were from somewhere else?  What
is needed is a competent, unbiased and independant
investigation. Something that we will never get.

Guys like Dilettoso screaming "ET" right away hurt what may
still be an important case. I'll back any efforts to investigate
the Arizona sightings, but as far as I'm concerned he has
nothing to do with it. Check the case on its own merits. It
really doesnt need to be tied to a "questionable" character like
Jim Dilettoso.

There were mucho witnesses to this event! I'd take _their_ word_
(the word of my neighbors,) over the word of an Airforce "Public
Information Officer" any day of the week! At least the
probabilty that the lips of the civilian witnesses are not
crazy-glued to the anus of some "Costumed clown" is much less
than in the case of a career AF Public Information Officer. <EG>

Thank you Frances, for keeping this one alive! You're one gutsy
lady and you have my complete support. I wish I lived in Arizona
just so I could vote for you. <G>

Peace,

John Velez, Webmaster, IF-AIC.com
"Barwood for President!" <VBG>







   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 12

                      UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 28

From: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 11:14:58 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 13:20:48 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 28


     UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 3, Number 28
July 12, 1998
Editor: Joseph Trainor

LIGHT PHENOMENON SEEN
BY HUNDREDS IN UK

     An unusual light phenomenon, which resembled
a giant letter Z, was seen on both sides of the Irish
Sea after 10:30 p.m. on Friday, July 10, 1998.
     According to the BBC report, "A large meteorite is
being blamed for hundreds of sightings along the west
coast of Britain Friday evening. Initially authorities
were baffled about the source of the lights, which looked
like the letter Z or the number 2."
     "Throughout Friday evening, police and coastguards
from Cornwall to Scotland were inundated with calls from
people who spotted the light, though most came from
people living around the Irish Sea."
     "Coastguards in Belfast said that they had received
dozens of 999 calls and admitted they had seen the
light in the sky...over the north coast of Ireland.  A
spokesman said the light had a large Z shape."
     "'It was very prominent and was due north of the
(Belfast) coastguard station.  We were able to watch it
from the window.  I can say that I've never seen anything
like this before.'"
     "'It was a larger shape than the moon but, as we were
unable to measure the distance, it was impossible to
judge its actual size.'"  (Editor's Note: It was a full moon
Friday night.)
     The Z-shaped light "appeared to be moving very slowly
westwards.  'When we first saw this object, it was not
completely dark (yet). It was higher than the clouds and
occasionally it was obscured by passing clouds.'"
     "Another report was received by Teesside Air Traffic
Control near Middlesbrough, who reported seeing an
object resembling the letter Q in the sky west of their
position."
     "In a statement, the (UK) Department of Transport
said, 'The sightings were as far apart as Cornwall and
the Clyde (in Scotland), west of Belfast (Northern Ireland)
and east to Leeds.  RAF Fylingdales early warning
station reported no undue activity, as did Jodrell Bank.
We can only summarise it is space debris or a comet.'"
     On Saturday, July 11, "an airline pilot who landed at
East Midlands Airport" provided "an explanation."
     "The pilot reported seeing a large meteorite entering
the atmosphere as he was flying from the UK to France.
He claimed to have noticed it breaking up and leaving a
long trail in its wake, which was forced by winds into
shapes resembling the letters."  (Many thanks to John
Hayes for the BBC report.)
(Editor's Comment:  Excuse me, but luminous meteor
trails last between five and ten seconds--twenty seconds
tops.  They do not persist in the sky for over an hour.
Whatever this phenomenon was, it was no meteor.)

BOOMERANG-SHAPED UFO
SIGHTED IN SOUTHERN FRANCE

     On Thursday, June 25, 1998, at about 11 p.m.,
Scottish photographer Stuart Conway and his friend,
Wayne Wilson were on vacation in Montpezat, a
village on the Lac Sainte Croix in Provence, on
France's Mediterranean coast, when they spotted a
UFO.
     "Myself and a friend, Wayne Wilson, were sitting
on the balcony of our hotel, chatting, and suddenly we
saw this triangular object fly silently by," Stuart reported.
"It seemed to be pretty close, and it had five or six dull
yellowish lights.  After a couple of seconds, it just
faded out."
     Conway used Photoshop software to reproduce
the UFO he had seen.  The image shows six yellow
lights on the underside of a boomerang shape, in an
arrangement reminiscent of the "Lubbock Lights"
seen in Texas in 1952.  There were three lights on
each "wing" of the UFO.  (Many thanks to Stuart
Conway for this report.)

UFO FLAP STIRS TASMANIA

     A UFO flap broke out in Australia's southern
island state of Tasmania during the last days
of May 1998.
     On May 17, two witnesses spotted "a bright
light to the east" in Lauderdale, Tasmania (Tas.)
It looked to have red, white and blue colours.  As
they watched it rose up to 15 to 30 degrees" above
the horizon at about 8:30 p.m.
     On May 18, in Tasmania's Black Hills, two
witnesses "watched for six seconds an oval light
in the northern sky."  Three times in succession,
the UFO flashed.  "It looks to have been a beam
pointing straight at the ground below."  As they
watched, the UFO "moved very quickly to the
northwest, then back to the north."  This sighting
also took place at 8:30 p.m.
     The evening of May 21, two people in different
locations in Kingston, Tas. saw a large bright UFO
"move away to the west or northwest."
     On May 28, at 8:07 p.m., two people "called to
report a bright light low to their southwest near Mount
Lloyd and Sandford.  'It looked to move back and forth,
then a number of lights were seen moving about it.'"
     That same evening, at 10 p.m., a witness in
Sandford, Tas. reported "a similar light in the southwest.
He says he saw two streaks of light in the sky, then
noticed the bright light which hovered at 15 to 20 degrees,
then faded out."
     On May 31, at 1:10 a.m., a witness in Collinsvale,
Tas., who had trouble getting to sleep, got up and
watched "lights flashing outside for every three or four
seconds."  The source was a triangular UFO "with
square areas of light" on the bottom, which hovered
"in front of Big Rocky Hill northwest of his home.  The
size of the object seemed to cover 100 meters (330 feet)
or more, as the lights flashed on and off for two minutes
before everything went black."
     The cases are being investigated by ufologists
Keith Roberts and Paul Jackson of the Tasmanian UFO
Investigation Centre.  (See Australian UFO Reports and
Experiences #5 for July 1998.  Many thanks to editor
Robert Frola for this news story.)

UFO AUTHOR AND WIFE
INDICTED IN ARIZONA

     Milton William Cooper, 55, author of the book
BEHOLD A PALE HORSE, and his wife, Annie
Mord-Horst, were indicted on tax charges in Arizona
recently.
     According to the Arizona Republic, "The U.S.
Attorney for Arizona, Jose de Jesus Rivera, said
federal agents will move carefully to arrest Cooper,
who faces a four-count indictment that he failed to
pay taxes from 1992 to 1994 and submitted false
information to a bank to obtain a loan."
     "'We are going to proceed with prudence and
caution and handle this matter in due course,' Rivera
said, declining to comment further."
     "Apache County sheriff Art Lee said he has asked
federal authorities to move cautiously against Cooper,
who lives in a hilltop home in Eagar," a town on Arizona
Highway 60 about 175 miles (280 kilometers) southeast
of Flagstaff.
     "After talking with Cooper," Sheriff Lee advised "federal
authorities that 'it could deteriorate into an incident.'"
     On Thursday, July 2, 1998, Cooper, whom the Arizona
Republic says "claims to belong to 'the Second Continental
Army of the Republic,'" a reputed militia group, posted a
message on his website.  The message reportedly read,
"WARNING!!  Any attempt by the federal government or
anyone else to execute an unconstitutional and unlawful
arrest could be met with armed resistance."
     "In Phoenix, Thomas Nixon of the U.S. Marshal's Office
said authorities wished to act cautiously as they enforce
the arrest warrant 'because no federal agency wants any
copies of Ruby Ridge and Waco.'  But, Nixon added,
'Obviously, at some point we'll effect the arrest.'"
     "One sympathizer, Glenn Jacobs, publisher of a small
valley newspaper, who spoke to Cooper earlier this week.
'He told me he is not going to submit to arrest by the
feds,' Jacobs said, 'He said if they're going to murder him,
they're going to have to do it in the house, that this is
where he has drawn his line in the sand, said that he's
not going to retreat from it.  I think he is expecting to be
murdered by the FBI.'"
     Cooper, whose book was published in 1991, was born
on May 6, 1943 in Oklahoma, son of Lt. Col. Milton V.
Cooper of the U.S. Air Force.  After graduating from high
school, he joined the Air Force for a four-year hitch and
then joined the U.S. Navy.
     In July 1966, Cooper was aboard the submarine
USS Tiru, which was on a routine patrol in the Pacific
Ocean near Hawaii, when he, officer of the deck Ensign
Ball and another crewman reportedly sighted a very large
saucer-shaped UFO.
     Cooper described the UFO as "a huge disk rise from
beneath the ocean, water streaming from the air around
it, tumble lazily on its axis...It was a metal machine, of
that there was no doubt whatsoever.  It was intelligently
controlled, of that I was equally sure.  It was a dull
color, kid of like pewter.  There were no lights.  There was
no glow.  I thought I had seen a row of what looked like
portholes, but could not be certain.  Radar reported
contact at the same bearing and gave us a range of
3 nautical miles...The giant saucer shape plunged out
of the clouds, tumbled, and pushing the water before
it, opened up a hole in the ocean and disappeared
from view."
     After being debriefed by the Office of Naval
Intelligence, Cooper was transferred to the gasoline
tanker USS Tombigbee.  From 1967 to 1969, he
served in Vietnam.
     Cooper was also involved in the Watergate
affair, which led to the resignation of President
Richard M. Nixon in August 1974.
     On August 3, 1974, five days before President
Nixon announced his resignation, and a couple of
days before the House of Representatives called
for impeachment hearings to begin, Cooper was
working as the SPECAT (Special Category) radio
operator at CINCPACFLT (Commander in Chief,
Pacific Fleet) headquarters in Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
when he was asked to download a strange message
on the KL-47 code machine.
     The message read, "Upon receipt you are
instructed to no longer accept direct orders from
TOP HAT." (code name for President Nixon--J.T.)
     According to Cooper, another SPECAT operator
named Randall W. Terpstra received the same
message while decoding radio traffic at a Marine
amphibious brigade headquarters.  The source of
the message remains unknown.  (See the Arizona
Republic for July 3, 1998, "Militiaman taking on
authorities" by Jerry Kammer.  See also BEHOLD A
PALE HORSE by Milton William Cooper, Light
Technology Publishing, Sedona, Arizona, 1991,
pages 19 to 23 and 184 to 194.  Many thanks to
Errol Bruce-Knapp for forwarding the article.)

UNUSUALLY BRIGHT METEOR
SEEN IN OKLAHOMA

     On Wednesday, June 24, 1998, at about 3 a.m.,
Frank F.was delivering newspapers "in a rural area of
Oklahoma City.  All of a sudden, everything lit up like
daylight.  I stopped my car and looked out the window.
Almost directly overhead I saw a huge, white object
that appeared to be a meteorite entering the atmosphere."
     "It lasted only four to five seconds at the most.
It was just white with some sparkling at the front of it.
It seemed to be very low in the atmosphere because
of how long and wide the streak was."
     "I see meteorites and shooting stars at least two or
three times a week and have never in my life observed
one this huge or bright.  I will definitely remember it
the rest of my life.  It would be nice, though, to hear
from anyone else who may have seen it." (Email
Interview)

COUPLE SEES BIZARRE UFO
OVER PITTSBURGH SUBURB

     On Tuesday, July 7, 1998, at 8:42 p.m., a couple
in Ross Township, Pennsylvania, a suburb of
Pittsburgh, "were observing the beautiful sunset.
They were looking toward the western sky and noticed
a black object above the top of some clouds that
appeared to be stationary."
     Looking at the object through a pair of World War II
surplus U.S. Navy binoculars, the man said the UFO
"was very high up" and "looked like the fuselage of a
large aircraft but with no wings or rotor blades visible.
As they watched the object appeared to slowly rise
in altitude."
     "Through the binoculars, the object looked like a
helicopter fuselage, but again with no rotor blades or
any lights visible.  On top of the object, however, were
two long projections described by the witness as
looking like 'two big balloons' or 'like great lollipops.'"
     "As the witnesses watched over the next several
minutes, the object began turning from side to side...
While the object was making these front-to-rear turns,
the witness was able to see more of the long appendages
and the top and underneath."
     "After about six to ten minutes, the object seemed
to pick up speed, still moving north, and the object
was lost from sight behind the trees."  (Many thanks
to Pennsylvania ufologist Stan Gordon for this report.)

UFO TRAILS JETLINER OVER
PENZANCE, CORNWALL

     On Tuesday, June 30, 1998, David A. Dunworth, his
wife and a friend were near Mounts Bay, in Penzance,
Cornwall, UK when they sighted an unusual object
in "the clear blue sky" at 9:10 a.m.
     "Myself, my wife and a friend of ours witnessed a
small circular white object trailing a jet.  The object was
about the size of an O on our keyboard and appeared
to be circling an aircraft on route to London or Europe,"
i.e. heading east.
     "The O-shaped object was bright white in colour
and moved in the same direction as the jet (easterly)
about one inch in an arc above the tail of the jet.  We
all watched as the object slowly circled the jet above
the fuselage.  The jet continued, probably unaware
of their companion circling above them.  As we
watched, the object began to fade in colour and
eventually disappeared all together, as if it had
somehow disintegrated."
     Penzance is located about 180 miles
(288 kilometers) southwest of London.  (Many
thanks to Steve Wilson Sr. for this news story.)

ARIZONANS HUNT FOR
BLACK HELICOPTER BASE

     Persistent reports of black helicopters over
Sedona, Arizona (population 7,720) have some
local residents combing the nearby red rock
canyons in search of a secret base.
     Justin A. Tribble of Citizens for UN Base
Disclosure (CUNBD) reported that Sedona, the
site of a recent UFO encounter, had been visited
by black helicopters several times since a flurry
of overflights back in April.
     On July 6, 1998, Justin reported on his website,
the group came into possession of a document
dated April 10, 1998 that refers to unusual military
operations in the Sedona area.
     In particular, the document mentions "operational
bases in Verde Valley," "Area 38 in Casper (sic)
Mountain," underground facilities near the towns of
Hope and Parker, and "Operation White Sword
Headquarters between Sterling and Sign (sic) Canyon."
     CUNBD pointed out the areas are known locally
as Casner Mountain and Bear Sign Canyon.
     The group was recently contacted by a Sedona
hairdresser named Diane, who wrote, "Do you know
where Sycamore Canyon is?  Going toward Cottonwood
on U.S. Highway 89A, turn right on Loy Butte Road
and go as far back as you can.  Once you reach the
base of the mountain, you have to find the first trail
that goes up and over the mountain.  From there, all
I know is that the 'base' is in that little valley."
     Diane told the group that a friend of hers, a 21-year-
old local man known as "Hot Shot," had made the
climb with some friends and some night vision equipment.
"When they went out there, it was late at night, and
there were black Humvees, and with their night vision
equipment they could see the opening into the old
volcano where they keep the black helicopters."
     Tribble commented, "We assume the area she's
referring to is Sycamore Pass...between Casner
Mountain and Black Mountain.  There is, in fact, a
'little valley' as she describes, beyond the pass that
leads into Sycamore Canyon."  (Many thanks to
Justin A. Tribble and CUNBD for this news story.)
(Editor's Comment:  Although this sounds like the
usual black helicopter hearsay, I found the reference
to an "Operation White Sword" intriguing.  Last
month's NATO amphibious training exercise near
Stephenville, Newfoundland, Canada had a
component called Gold Sword 4.  See The Western
Star of Newfoundland for June 17, 1998.  Also,
"Gold" and "Sword" were two of the beaches in
the 1944 D-Day invasion of Normandy.)

EAGLE-NET WEBMASTER
DESCRIBES SITE SHUTDOWN

     The disappearance of EagleNet and its popular
cyber-newspaper, Kent Steadman's CyberSpace
Orbit, continues to generate controversy.
     In a letter to UFO Roundup, EagleNet webmaster
Todd Jumper described the sudden disappearance of
the website from the Internet.
     The EagleNet site, Todd reported, "is up and running
again.  I would like to share more information as to why
it was shut down and the possibility of foul play."
     "As soon as EagleNet was shut down, I contacted my
server administrator.  When I first contacted them, they
were not sure why EagleNet was shut down."  Then, he
added, the server explained that "it was pointing to the
wrong IA address and with the possibility that someone
had been tampering with the server."
     "Tech support told me that they would have EagleNet
running again in a few hours.  But instead these hours
turned to days and then to about two weeks.  I repeatedly
contacted them every day by phone and email several
times a day."
     "Every time they either would not respond or refused
to talk to me about the problem but confided that the
server had been shut down but would not explain to me
why."
     On Sunday, July 5, 1998, Todd asked one of his
assistant webmasters to contact Saturn Services Tech
Support and pretend to be interested in a website.  The
assistant webmaster soon turned the conversation to
EagleNet.
     According to Todd, Tech Support reportedly told
his assistant webmaster that "EagleNet had violated the
policies and web traffic" guidelines and that "this
account did not have unlimited traffic."
     "This is not true, and we never violated any policies,"
Todd wrote, "They also told him they were concerned
with Kent Steadman's CyberSpace Orbit and that it
was bringing in too much traffic, which they claimed
was 15 gigabytes, an amount which I find hard to
believe."
     Todd also asserted that NASA had asked "Kent
Steadman and myself to remove certain images before
and after the EngleNet server was shut down."
     "When EagleNet was reactivated the past week...
someone within EagleNet released a virus which went
through our mailing list and caused several of our
members' computers to crash."
     On Thursday, July 9, 1998, EagleNet was
restored, Todd added, and he alleged that "I have also
received new threats from someone claiming to work
for the CIA."  (Email Interview)

DOWNLOADED SOHO IMAGES
SHOW STRANGE OBJECT

     UFO Roundup reader K. G. of Texas viewed
video clippings of the controversial images from the
Solar and Heliospheric Observatory (SOHO), with
which NASA lost contact two weeks ago.
     The images were posted in Kent Steadman's
CyberSpace Orbit and on a website operated by
I Wonder Productions.
     K.G. described the UFO as "a spherical object
with a line through the middle...There are different
theories as to what it is--Saturn, a ball of (solar)
plasma, or an alien cruiser."
     "To the right of the sun is a spherical object
with a horizontal line running through it.  The entire
object moves from right to left (in the video--J.T.)
Before a solar flare erupts, a long vertical line appears
to the left of the object, almost as if a shielding
mechanism was engaged.  The shield-like object
appears to turn with the object and disappears when
the flare dies down."
     Sites where the "mystery object" video was
available include the following:
     (1) http://www.eagle-net.org/phikent/sun/
06-12anx.gif
     (2) http://www.eagle-net.org/phikent/sun/
06-20c2an.gif
     A still image could be found at http://www.
eagle-net.org/phikent/sun/06-11det.jpg
(Email Interview)
(Editor's Comment:  How about that.  Another
Saturn-shaped object, just like the one seen
by amateur astronomer Chuck Shramek in
November 1996. (See UFO Roundup, Volume 1,
Number 38)  What is this!?  The return of the
Hale Mary?)  ...

from the UFO Files...

1947: UFOs CHASE A SMALL
          PLANE OVER UTAH

     "On the clear sunlit afternoon of July 12, 1947,
Earl 'Skip' Page, his wife, Beulah, and their nine-
year-old son, Ronald, were flying a two-seater
(private plane) from Las Vegas (Nevada) to Salt
Lake City" when they nearly collided with a squadron
of UFOs high above Utah Lake.
     "At roughly 3:30 p.m., a group of silver-colored,
disc-shaped objects zipped past the Pages' plane,
coming within 50 feet of the aircraft at the same
altitude."
     Fifty-one years later, Beulah, now 82, and
Ronald, 60, vividly remember the encounter.
     "'At first we thought it was birds.  We just
saw the movement,' Beulah, a Salt Lake native
said in a telephone interview from her home in
Olympia, Wash.  'My husband turned the plane to
where they were going and they zoomed away like
crazy.  It got kind of scary when we turned toward
their direction.  They just disappeared.'"
     "The entire sighting lasted only a few minutes.
The Pages didn't notice markings, windows or
even how many objects were in the cluster.
Ronald thinks there might have been three."
     "'There was definitely something there,' said
Ronald, who was squeezed in between his parents
but had a good view of the sky.  'Those were the
days before we had jet airplanes or anything like
that.  I'd seen fighter aircraft in those days, but
they weren't anything like what we saw.'"
     Arriving in Salt Lake City, the Pages told their
story to relatives and friends.  But, fearing ridicule,
they declined to share it with the media.
     "'I remember it made them nauseous because
they didn't know what it was,' said Marilyn Page,
Beulah's niece, who lives in Wyoming.  'It was just
something completely new they'd never seen.  It
was kind of a shock."
     Earl Page was born in Bountiful, Utah in 1911.
In 1943, he moved his family from Salt Lake City
to Hanford, Washington to work as an electrical
engineer at the USA's then-secret plutonium
processing plant in Hanford, Washington state.
Page was maintenance supervisor at Hanford when
he died of a heart attack in 1960.
     Interestingly, the Hanford plant itself was
visited by two daylight disc UFOs in 1953.  (See
the Desert News of Salt Lake City for July 6, 1997,
"Family saw silver discs zipping through Utah's
skies" by Zack van Eyck.  Many thanks to Lou
Farrish of UFO NEWSCLIPPING SERVICE for
this story.)

FUN UFO WEBSITES:
     Citizens for UN Base Disclosure have a website
at this URL--http://users.sedona.net/~redstone/
6315.htm
     Be sure to check out the news and features
available at our parent site, UFO INFO.  Drop in
anytime at http://ufoinfo.com
     Back issues of UFO Roundup can be accessed
and downloaded at our webpage.  Help yourself to
the archive at http://ufoinfo.com/roundup

     To our readers in France--Alain, Michel, Franck
and Thierry--enjoy the Bastille Day holiday on Tuesday.
Et, Michel, bonne chance en Montpezat.

     Join us next weekend for more saucer news from
"the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup.  See
you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1998 by Masinaigan
Productions, Inc.  Readers may post news items from
UFO Roundup on their websites or in newsgroups
provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor
by name and list the date of issue in which the item





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                           UK Meteor Blast Mystery

From: David Clarke <dclarke14@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 14:58:45 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 15:09:26 -0400
Subject: UK Meteor Blast Mystery


The following is directly from the Press Association News Wire
service this morning:

Mystery Lights Were Meteor Shower

The mystery surrounding a series of lights seen high in the sky
over western areas [of the United Kingdom] was solved today when
officials said it was caused by a meteor shower descending to
earth.

The sighting brought reports of UFOs and messages from space
last night [Friday, July 12] Coastguard stations and police from
Scotland to Cornwall were flooded with calls from concerned
witnesses, many reporting lights in the shapes of the letters
"Z" and "Q" or the number "2".

Many calls were centred around the Isle of Man where a large
explosion in the sky was reported.

Mystery deepended when a statement from Liverpool Coast Guard
about the lights said: "Coastguard and air traffic control are
satisfied this is not aircraft related, so we can only assume
whatever it is comes from out there."

But shortly after midnight the mystery was solved when an
airline pilot who landed at East Midlands Airport reported
seeing a large meteorite entering the atmosphere when he was
flying to the UK from France.

The meteorite began breaking up as it entered the atmosphere and
left a long trail in its wake.

The pilot said he watched as winds formed the trail into shapes
resembling letters which had been reported on the ground.

A spokesman for Liverpool Coast Guard said today [Saturday]: "It
appears to be a meteor shower and two parts may have hit each
other.

"We had over a hundred 999 calls here alone with people
reporting UFOs, coloured lights, meteors, comets and space
debris.

"They were reported right across the northwest, but thankfully
nothing appeared to land anywhere."

Bungy Williams, watch manager at Belfast Coastguard said the "Z"
shaped lightys were in the sky for 45 minutes.

"I can say I've never seen anything like it before," he said.

"It was a larger shape than the moon but as we were unable to
measure the distance it was impossible to judge its actual size.

"I made a drawing of the object which shortly before midnight
began to fade."

A report in the London Sunday Mirror today quotes Williams as
saying: "When we first saw the object, it was not completely
dark. Whatever it was, it appeared to be moving very slowly
westwards. It seemed larger than the moon and higher than the
clouds."

Teeside air traffic control tower, near Newcastle-upon-Tyne,
also reported a sighting.

They also quote defence officials at RAF Fylingdales in North
Yorkshire, the MoD's front line early warning station, as having
had "no undue activity" reported on radar. A Coastguard
spokesman added: "It was a mystery at the time - but it was not
an alien craft."

Compare these sightings with the reports describing a brilliant
meteor re-entry over western and central areas of Britain
reported by dozens of people on Thursday, June 11 this year.

This object lit up the sky with a dazzling flame-like trail over
Worcestershire, Herefordshire, and Shropshire before
disappearing in a flash over North Wales.

On that night 268 calls were logged by police and coastguard in
a 90-minute period from 11.02pm - with repors ranging from "a
flying saucer and a blazing aircraft to the end of the world"
(Daily Mail, June 13).

Any comments?






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                       Re: Remote Controlled US Craft

From: Sue Strickland <strick@H2Net.net>
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 14:21:43 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 17:44:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Remote Controlled US Craft


>Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 16:38:13 -0400
>From: bear <intcon@tampabay.rr.com>
>Newsgroups: alt.alien.research
>Subject: Remote controlled aircraft

Bear wrote: (a whole bunch snipped):

>My company has, over the last 35 years, done a considerable
>amount of work on military air bases. In that period of time, we
>have observed the utilization of remote controlled aircraft.

>If you have no pilot, g forces and things of that nature
>wouldn't have the same impact. Just thought I'd see if anyone
>else has any input.

Dear Bear et al,

I have no doubt that the military has tried to learn to
manufacture space craft which would defy the forces of gravity.
Obviously, the fundamentals of gravity aren't fully understood,
otherwise there would be no need for "remote controlled
aircraft" G-testing.

The aircraft I saw was clearly being piloted by 2 occupants. So
whatever gravity is, the occupants I saw were able to manipulate
it outside the aircraft as though the ship was in a bubble-type
vacuum, bending the light around the ship, out of its way, such
that there was no light visible from the outside looking in (and
therefore no outline of the ship)? Is that possible, or am I way
out in left field?

Sincerely,

Sue








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                     Intruders Foundation Is Back Online

From: Budd Hopkins & John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 14:08:01 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 17:41:13 -0400
Subject: Intruders Foundation Is Back Online


GREETINGS!

Here we are again, the Intruders Foundation once more available
on the Internet. Though we are independent, we can be reached
along with John Velez's AIC - Abduction Information Center. We
will be posting new material on the subject of the abduction
phenomenon as frequently as we can.

IF was created for the edification of the general public. AIC is
private, and it is intended solely for the use of individuals
seeking information regarding personal experiences. We will
protect the privacy and anonymity of anyone who may contact us
via AIC.

The new URL is:

http://www.if-aic.com

In the meantime , if you wish to contact Budd Hopkins
you can do so through snail mail:

IF,
Box 30233.
N.Y.,  N.Y..  10011 ,

or by Fax:
212 - 352- 1778

John Velez can be reached through e-mail:

jvif@spacelab.net

Thank you. We hope that you enjoy the revamped IF
website.

Budd Hopkins, Executive Director, IF
John Velez, Webmaster IF-AIC









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                            UK UFO Flap July 10?

From: Werner Walter <113236.1604@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 15:35:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 17:54:28 -0400
Subject: UK UFO Flap July 10?

Hi List,

Has a List-Member more links for media-reports in this matter?
And was snapped a picture of this phenomena?

Werner






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                        Yakima, Washington Sighting?

From: Justin J. Patterson <pattersj@pacificu.edu>
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 15:17:47 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 18:35:06 -0400
Subject: Yakima, Washington Sighting?


I was wondering if anyone has heard about the recent sighting in
Yakima, Washington? I caught the tail end of a report on the
local news here, in Portland, Oregon, but I was wondering if
anyone knows any more.

Justin J. Patterson







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               Report on the St. Paul, Alberta UFO Conference

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 19:53:22 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 21:43:15 -0400
Subject: Report on the St. Paul, Alberta UFO Conference


The St. Paul UFO Conference: Little Pad on the Prairie
July 10-11, 1998

"This is our first try at this, so if anything goes wrong, you
can't blame us for it, because we're just learning," said Paul
Pelletier, organizer for the UFO Conference in St. Paul,
Alberta, Canada, on July 10-11, 1998.

Paul had nothing to worry about. The conference was an
outstanding success.

Almost 500 people registered for the event, most travelling more
than two-and-a-half hours from Edmonton, although there were
many there from Calgary and other Alberta towns, but also many
from Saskatchewan, Manitoba and British Columbia. (I noted that
the UFO museum guest book had signatures of people from Las
Vegas, Billings, Whitehorse, Winnipeg and Boise.)

For an out-of-the-way location, St. Paul did well to make its
presence known on the international UFO scene, and rightly so.
It boasts the first and longest-maintained UFO landing pad in
the world. The platform was built in 1967 as part of an
eccentric project to mark Canada's 100th birthday.

"We were just going to make an ordinary park," said Jules Van
Brabert, mayor of St. Paul at the time. "But I started having a
few beers with some committee members, and we got to thinking
that we wanted something really different. Well, someone had
just watched something on TV about flying saucers, and laughed
that we should make the park into a UFO landing pad. It seemed
like a great idea at the time."

And it was. The pad didn't cost St. Paul anything. Materials
were donated by local businesses, and the publicity of its
inauguration made it a tourist attraction.

But then, as the years wore on, interest in the pad faded. It
fell into disrepair in the 70s, but then in the 80s, someone had
the idea to restore the pad and turn it into a larger
attraction.

The site grew, and became more well-known. Mother Theresa (yes,
_the_ Mother Theresa) visited the site and extolled the virtues
of helping others, even others "in outer space." Later, a museum
was built adjoining the pad. The CUFOS travelling exhibit was
installed there, too, when John Timmerman "retired" from taking
it across North America.

A toll-free hot line was set up, for people to report their own
UFO sightings. Reports are maintained by the energetic Rhea
LaBrie, who runs the museum and makes sure there are enough UFO
t-shirts, spoons and bumper stickers to sell.

"It has all been a great success," she boasted at the
conference.

I was invited to be a guest speaker there, on the program which
featured Stanton Friedman lecturing about why Flying Saucers Are
Real. Gord Kijek of the Alberta UFO Study Group talked on an
outstanding case involving triangular UFOs as well as some
Alberta crop circles. Cerealogist Gord Sobczak showed some of
the striking shots of recent British crop circles and attracted
a lot of interest from the audience.

One of the best-received speakers was Fern Belzil, a cattle
rancher and mutilation investigator. His years of experience in
raising cattle give him a definite edge when it comes to
interpreting mute evidence. (I only wished his talk wasn't
immediately after lunch.)

John Timmerman of CUFOS gave both a history of ufology and
commented on its future, describing the under appreciated work of
James McDonald and others, and how there are so many avenues for
future research.

Clinical psychologist Helen Neufeld described her work with
abductees, in particular "Sharon", who agreed to share the
podium and answer questions.

The conference ended with a surprise presentation by Martin
Jacek, a UFO investigator from the Yukon and affiliated with UFO
BC.

Those were the _formal_ presentations. Then there was all the
other stuff.

Gord Kijek drove me to the conference from Edmonton. We got
there about noon on Friday and met Stan for lunch. He had
already done several media interviews and wanted to grab
something to eat before dashing off to another one. We had a
great chat, catching up on UFO gossip and exchanging some
material each of us had brought along. Stan had not yet seen a
copy of the new Sturrock Report and I gave him my copy to view.
He showed me some of the declassification notices he had
received recently about some ELINT programs from the 50s and 60s
and only just now admitted.

After lunch, Stan was picked up to go to the conference site,
while Gord drove me around town to check out the UFO kitsch.
Sure enough, St. Paul is exactly like Roswell.

"Welcome to our 'Pad'," said an alien on a sign outside a Radio
Shack.

"E.T. PHONE SMITTY'S", invited the sign outside a restaurant.

The local Bingo Hall had a saucer on its sign, and the shopping
mall had a mural depicting the Roswell crash at its main
entrance.

After Stan's first lecture that evening, he needed something to
munch so he could wind down for the night. Where did we go? UFO
Pizza, of course! The restaurant was open late, had great pizza
and pasta, and the decor featured UFOs in paintings, murals and
hand-painted signs on the front window. Naturally, we all had
'UFO Coolers' to drink. (At 6.9% alcohol, they kind of sneak up
on you!)

The conference site was in a huge recreation centre. The lecture
hall had more than 350 chairs set up, and they were filled by
Friday night. Stan had a table at the back where he sold his
books and papers.

The adjoining room, however, was twice the size. It contained
the main huckster room, which had dealers selling t-shirts,
caps, pins, rings and necklaces. The most popular item
(according to Rhea) was the green alien head filled with $1
'alien pops'.

One artisan was selling her huge selection of ceramic aliens and
flying saucers, including some which had lights and made weird
noises. I bought a 'UFO gun' which shoots foam saucers, some
alien key fobs, a UFO Pizza cap and other assorted goodies.

(The St. Paul Chamber of Commerce said they thought the
conference brought in many more dollars into the town's economy
than they spent on speakers and publicity.)

A big part of the display was set up by the Edmonton Space
Sciences Centre. Director Frank Florian was there demonstrating
simple gee-whiz science experiments to the kids, and even had a
Starlab planetarium inflated in one corner of the hall. The Fort
McMurray astronomy club had a display, and that night had a star
party for the attendees, having set up their scopes outside.

The media were everywhere. Every network, every Alberta
newspaper, most radio stations. Stan must've done a few dozen
interviews, while lesser figures such as Gord and me only did a
couple. :)

One weird event occurred when a woman presented herself to
reporters as the abductee who would be speaking later in the
conference. Paul was really worried because not only did she
_look_ crazy, she _sounded_ crazy. Well, we're not sure who she
really was, but she wasn't Helen's abductee. The imposter had a
hospital bracelet and was just out on a stroll away from a
nearby institution ...

Hot gossip: John Timmerman had a call about a new crop circle in
Ohio, just days before leaving for Alberta ... Stan is on his
way now to Australia. 'grok' magazine in Oz faxed him a list of
questions which included some real corkers, such as "Why are
there only 10 theses on UFOs? Which ones are positive?" ... Stan
told me and Gord about his appearance at a conference in
Argentina, at which officers from the Uruguayan Air Force
presented a paper describing their own official investigations,
which reached the conclusion that there was no scientific
evidence for UFOs ... A farmer told me he still has some angel
hair from a batch which fell in the 70s. He gave most of it to
scientists with the Alberta government who requested it from
him. When the farmer asked about their results, the reply was:
"Samples? What samples?" ... One woman told me a weird story
about how the "government" put up posters in small towns in
Saskatchewan in the mid-1980s, advertising a 1-800 number to
report UFOs. There was a flap around Kindersley at the time. The
number was only in operation for a few months ...

All in all, it was a great time. The next St. Paul UFO
Conference is in two years (2000 A.D.). Don't miss it, you UFO
buffs!

Chris Rutkowski
12 July 1998

--
Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca
(and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca)
University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada





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                   Chat With Don Ledger, UFO Investigator

From: Yvonne Hedenland <vonni_h@email.msn.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 19:32:06 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 22:00:06 -0400
Subject: Chat With Don Ledger, UFO Investigator


Incident at Shag Harbor, 1967

COULD BE SOMETHING CONCRETE IN SHAG HARBOUR UFO - RCAF  read the
Halifax Herald of October 7,1967.  Nova Scotia resident and pilot
Don Ledger jumped in with two feet and soon determined there was
indeed hard details behind what potentially could be the most
significant UFO case of the past 50 years.

As a UFO researcher living in Bedford, Nova Scotia, Ledger is
employed by the Nova Scotia government as the
Director/Coordinator of the Legislative Television coverage of
the debates in the Nova Scotia Legislature.

Join the UFO Forum and guest Don Ledger Tuesday, July 14th, at
6pm PT at

http://forums.msn.com/ufo

The Briefing Room chat can be accessed by any IRC client. The
chat server name is publicchat.msn.com and the room or channel
name is #briefing.

The Netshow Audio interview will be available on
Monday, July 13th









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                         Re: UK Meteor Blast Mystery

From: Robert Moore <ENGIMA9@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 20:59:10 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 22:06:15 -0400
Subject: Re: UK Meteor Blast Mystery


Dear All,

Re Meteor Blast Mystery (yet again)....

In regards to these various meteor events, I am beginning to
think that something significant has been happening over the
present couple of months.

Has anyone noticed that there's been _two_ major meteor -display
events in as many months! (i.e those sufficiently noticable
enough to spark off England-wide "UFO" scares).

The previous 11-12th June event was interesting, too, in the
light of what has happened recently. Not only was a "blue"
coloured bolide (fireball meteor) seen at approx. 0000hrs on the
12th June, but there was seemingly also some extra meteor-shower
activity at 2300hrs on the 11th June. Additionally, it also
appears that there was a _further_ bolide display (or maybe even
two!) observed over various parts of the UK - again on the 11th
June - at around 18.22-18.40 hrs!

That's a bit odd, considering the meteor showers which were
"active" (the Ophiuchids & June Lyrids showers) are (normally)
fairly weak ones. This level of meteor activity strikes me as a
bit abnormal. It might all be down to chance, but it doesn't
seem that way at present.

I have a (very) provisional idea _why_ this "clustering" of
meteor activity _might_ be happening......

Are we experiencing some "enriched" meteors showers (or simply
clusters of interplanetary "space-dust") which has been causing
these notable repeat meteor/meteor-shower events? We know
meteor-showers are "seeded" by cometary material. Could
Hale-Bobb (or another body) have enriched the local
interplanetary environment last year with extra cometary
material(which subsequently has resulted in these displays?).

In the light of this, it is interesting to note that that the
Bootids shower (which occurred on the 26th-27th June) _was_
associated with an "unusually high rate of noticably-bright
meteors". The activity of meteor showers have been known to
fluctuate from year to year. For example there was a very
spetacular display in the mid-19th (or 18th!) century where it
was claimed that the night sky was virtually "swarming" with
meteors for several hours.

Is something similar happening now (albeit on a _much_ smaller
scale)? How many meteor reports have you had over the past few
months or so? Have they been higher than usual?

You see, "boring" IFOs can be interesting, after all! And
important too....._if_ these reports _do_ indeed indicate that
we are passing through greater-than-normal levels of
"interplanetary dust".

But, then again, it might just be a chance cluster-effect.

However, it doesn't seem like that at the moment!

Even several UFO websites have also noticed a higher-than-normal
level of "UFO" events generated by bolide activity.

Robert Moore,
BUFORA.





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             Imposter Crashes UFO Conference, St. Paul, Alberta

From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net>
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 21:31:44 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 22:14:04 -0400
Subject: Imposter Crashes UFO Conference, St. Paul, Alberta

List,

From: The Peterborough Examiner
Sunday, July 12, 1998
Front Page

The Latest
Imposter crashes UFO conference as guest speaker.

ST. PAUL, Alta. (CP)  ---  Whether it involved any kind of
conspiracy is unclear, but the wrong alien abductee nearly
took centre stage Saturday at a conference on UFOs.

The woman, who said she was a patient at the St. Therese
Health Centre, presented herself to organizers as the
scheduled speaker and gave interviews to the media.

The actual featured guest speaker -- an Edmonton woman
who claims she's had contact with aliens -- hadn't arrived yet.

The patient, who said she was being treated at the hospital
for something to do with her feet, left the conference as
mysteriously as she arrived after organizers realized she
wasn't the real speaker.

The real alien abductee speaker, who bills herself only as
Suzanne, said:  "It's reasons like that that I don't give out
my last name."

The conference chairman called the incident 'a glitch'.

EOF

Sue







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                     The McDonald Report - December 1969

From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org>
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 12:53:48 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 19:58:08 -0400
Subject: The McDonald Report - December 1969

Note from the UFOR editor: This reposted article, from the AAAS, can be of
special interest when considering Dr. Sturrock's group report on a similar
venue.

Archived in http://www.ufobbs.com/ufo

:::::::::


AMERICAN ASSOCIATION FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF SCIENCE, 134th MEETING

Subject       Science in Default: 22 Years of Inadequate
                 UFO Investigations

Author        James E. McDonald, Professor of Atmospheric Sciences

Address       The University of Arizona, Tucson, Arizona, 85721

Time          9:00 a.m., December 27, 1969

Place         Sheraton Plaza Ballroom

Program       General Symposium, Unidentified Flying Objects

Convention
  Address     Sheraton Plaza Hotel

                                                RELEASE TIME
                                                A.M,'s December 28

     No scientifically adequate investigation of the UFO problem has been
carried out during the entire 22 years that have now passed since the
first extensive wave of sightings of unidentified aerial objects in the
summer of 1947. Despite continued public interest, and despite frequent
expressions of public concern, only quite superficial examinations of the
steadily growing body of unexplained UFO reports from credible witnesses
have been conducted in this country or abroad. The latter point is highly
relevant, since all evidence now points to the fact that UFO sightings
exhibit similar characteristics throughout the world.

     Charging inadequacy of all past UFO investigations, I speak not only
from a background of close study of the past investigations, but also from
a background of three years of rather detailed personal research,
involving interviews with over five hundred witnesses in selected UFO
cases, chiefly in the U. S. In my opinion, the UFO problem, far from being
the nonsense problem that it has often been labeled by many scientists,
constitutes a problem of extraordinary scientific interest.

     The grave difficulty with essentially all past UFO studies has been
that they were either devoid of any substantial scientific content, or
else have lost their way amidst the relatively large noise-content that
tends to obscure the real signal in the UFO reports. The presence of a
percentually large number of reports of misidentified natural or
technological phenomena (planets, meteors, and aircraft, above all) is not
surprising, given all the circumstances surrounding the UFO problem. Yet
such understandable and usually easily recognized instances of
misidentification have all too often been seized upon as a sufficient
explanation for all UFO reports, while the residue of far more significant
reports (numbering now of order one thousand) are ignored. I believe
science is in default for having failed to mount any truly adequate
studies of this problem, a problem that has aroused such strong and
widespread public concern during the past two decades. Unfortunately, the
present climate of thinking, above all since release of the latest of a
long series of inadequate studies, namely, that conducted under the
direction of Dr. E. U. Condon at the University of Colorado, will make it
very difficult to secure any new and more thorough investigations, yet my
own examination of the problem forces me to call for just such new
studies. I am enough of a realist to sense that, unless the present AAAS
UFO Symposium succeeds in making the scientific community aware of the
seriousness of the UFO problem, little immediate response to any call for
new investigation is likely to appear.

     In fact, the over-all public and scientific response to the UFO
phenomena is itself a matter of substantial scientific interest, above all
in its social-psychological aspects. Prior to my own investigations, I
would never have imagined the wide spread reluctance to report an unusual
and seemingly inexplicable event, yet that reluctance, and the attendant
reluctance of scientists to exhibit serious interest in the phenomena in
question, are quite general. One regrettable result is the fact that the
most credible of UFO witnesses are often those most reluctant to come
forward with a report of the event they have witnessed. A second
regrettable result is that only a very small number of scientists have
taken the time and trouble to search out the nearly puzzling reports that
tend to be diluted out by the much larger number of trivial and
non-significant UFO reports. The net result is that there still exists no
general scientific recognition of the scope and nature of the UFO problem.

                              * * *

     Within the federal government official responsibility for UFO
investigations has rested with the Air Force since early 1948.
Unidentified aerial objects quite naturally fall within the area of Air
Force concern, so this assignment of responsibility was basically
reasonable, However, once it became clear (early 1949) that UFO reports
did not seem to involve advanced aircraft of some hostile foreign power,
Air Force interest subsided to relatively low levels, marked, however, by
occasional temporary resurgence of interest following large waves of UFO
reports, such as that of 1952, or 1957, or 1965.

     A most unfortunate pattern of press reporting developed by about
1953, in which the Air Force would assert that they had found no evidence
of anything "defying explanation in terms of present-day science and
technology" in their growing files of UFO reports. These statements to the
public would have done little harm had they not been coupled
systematically to press statements asserting that "the best scientific
facilities available to the U. S. Air Force" had been and were being
brought to bear on the UFO question. The assurances that substantial
scientific competence was involved in Air Force UFO investigations have, I
submit, had seriously deleterious scientific effects. Scientists who might
otherwise have done enough checking to see that a substantial scientific
puzzle lay in the UFO area were misled by these assurances into thinking
that capable scientists had already done adequate study and found nothing.
My own extensive checks have revealed so slight a total amount of
scientific competence in two decades of Air Force-supported investigations
that I can only regard the repeated asseverations of solid scientific
study of the UFO . problem as the single most serious obstacle that the
Air Force has put in the way of progress towards elucidation of the matter

     I do not believe, let me stress, that this has been part of some top-
secret coverup of extensive investigations by Air Force or security
agencies; I have found no substantial basis for accepting that theory of
why the Air Force has so long failed to respond appropriately to the many
significant and scientifically intriguing UFO reports coming from within
its own ranks. Briefly, I see grand foulup but not grand coverup. Although
numerous instances could be cited wherein Air Force spokesmen failed to
release anything like complete details of UFO reports, and although this
has had the regrettable consequence of denying scientists at large even a
dim notion of the almost incredible nature of some of the more impressive
Air Force-related UFO reports, I still feel that the most grievous fault
of 22 years of Air Force handling of the UFO problem has consisted of
their repeated public assertions that they had substantial scientific
competence on the job.

     Close examination of the level of investigation and the level of
scientific analysis involved in Project Sign (1948-9), Project Grudge
(1949- 52), and Project Bluebook (1953 to date), reveals that these were,
viewed scientifically, almost meaning less investigations. Even during
occasional periods (e.g., 1952) characterized by fairly active
investigation of UFO cases, there was still such slight scientific
expertise involved that there was never any real chance that the puzzling
phenomena encountered in the most significant UFO cases would be
elucidated. Furthermore, the panels, consultants, contractual studies,
etc., that the Air Force has had working on the UFO problem over the past
22 years have, with essentially no exception, brought almost negligible
scientific scrutiny into the picture. Illustrative examples will be given.

     The Condon Report, released in January, 1968, after about two years
of Air Force-supported study is, in my opinion, quite inadequate. The
sheer bulk of the Report, and the inclusion of much that can only be
viewed as "scientific padding", cannot conceal from anyone who studies it
closely the salient point that it represents an examination of only a tiny
fraction of the most puzzling UFO reports of the past two decades, and
that its level of scientific argumentation is wholly unsatisfactory.
Furthermore, of the roughly 90 cases that it specifically confronts, over
30 are conceded to be unexplained. With so large a fraction of unexplained
cases (out of a sample that is by no means limited only to the truly
puzzling cases, but includes an obJectionably large number of obviously
trivial cases), it is far from clear how Dr. Condon felt justified in
concluding that the study indicated "that further extensive study of UFOs
probably cannot be justified in the expectation that science will be
advanced thereby. "

      I shall cite a number of specific examples of cases from the Condon
Report which I regard as entirely inadequately investigated and reported.
One at Kirtland AFB, November 4, 1957, involved observations of a wingless
egg- shaped object that was observed hovering about a minute over the
field prior to departure at a climb rate which was described to me as
faster than that of any known jets, then or now. The principal witnesses
in this case were precisely the type of witnesses whose accounts warrant
closest attention, since they were CAA tower observers who watched the UFO
from the CAA tower with binoculars. Yet, when I located these two men in
the course of my own check of cases from the Condon Report, I found that
neither of them had even been contacted by members of the University of
Colorado project! Both men were fully satisfied that they had been viewing
a device with performance characteristics well beyond any thing in present
or foreseeable aeronautical technology. The two men gave me descriptions
that were mutually consistent and that fit closely the testimony given on
Nov. 6, 1957, when they were interrogated by an Air Force investigator.
The Condon Report attempts to explain this case as a light-aircraft that
lost its way, came into the field area, and then left. This kind of
explanation runs through the whole Condon Report, yet is wholly incapable
of explaining the details of sightings such as that of the Kirtland AFB
incident. Other illustrative instances in which the investigations
summarized in the Condon Report exhibit glaring deficiencies will be
cited. I suggest that there are enough significant unexplainable UFO
reports just within the Condon Report itself to document the need for a
greatly increased level of scientific study of UFOs.

     That a panel of the National Academy of Sciences could endorse this
study is to me disturbing. I find no evidence that the Academy panel did
any independent checking of its own; and none of that 11-man panel had any
significant prior investigative experience in this area, to my knowledge.
I believe that this sort of Academy endorsement must be criticized; it
hurts science in the long run, and I fear that this particular instance
will ultimately prove an embarrassment to the National Academy of
Sciences.

     The Condon Report and its Academy endorsement have exerted a highly
negative influence on clarification of the long-standing UFO problem; so
much, in fact, that it seems almost pointless to now call for new and more
extensive UFO investigations. Yet the latter are precisely what are needed
to bring out into full light of scientific inquiry a phenomenon that could
well constitute one of the greatest scientific problems of our times.

                               * * *

Some examples of UFO cases conceded to be unexplainable in the Condon
Report and containing features of particularly strong scientific interest:
Utica, N.Y., 6/23/55; Lakenheath, England, 8/13/56; Jackson, Ala.,
11/14/56; Norfolk, Va., 8/30/57; RB-47 case, 9/19/57; Beverly Mass.,
4/22/66; Donnybrook, N.D., 8/19/66; Haynesville, La., 12/30/66; Joplin,
Mo., 1/13/67; Colorado Springs, Colo., 5/13/67.

Some examples of UFO cases considered explained in the Condon Report for
which I would take strong exception to the argumentation presented and
would regard as both unexplained and of strong scientific interest:
Flagstaff, Ariz., 5/20/50; Washington, D. C., 7/19/52; Bellefontaine, O.,
8/1/52; Haneda AFB, Japan, 8/5/52; Gulf of Mexico, 12/6/52; Odessa, Wash.,
12/10/52; Continental Divide, N.M., 1/26/53; Seven Isles, Quebec, 6/29/54;
Niagara Falls, N.Y., 7/25/57; Kirtland AFB, N.M., 11/4/57; Gulf of Mexico,
11/5/57; Peru, 12/30/66; Holloman AFB, 3/2/67; Kincheloe AFB, 9/11/67;
Vandenberg AFB, 10/6/67; Milledgeville, Ga., 10/20/67.


SCIENCE IN DEFAULT: 22 YEARS OF INADEQUATE UFO INVESTIGATIONS

      James E. McDonald, Institute of Atmospheric Physics
                  University of Arizona, Tucson

          (Material presented at the Symposium on UFOs,
           134th Meeting, AAAS, Boston, Dec, 27, 1969)

                              ***

                        ILLUSTRATIVE CASES

      The following treats in detail the four principal UFO
cases referred to in my Symposium talk. They are presented as
specific illustrations of what I regard as serious shortcomings
of case-investigations in the Condon Report and in the 1947-69
Air Force UFO program. The four cases used as illustrations are
the following :

            1.   RB-47 case, Gulf Coast area, Sept. 19, 1957

            2.   Lakenheath RAF Station, England, August 13-14,
                 1956

            3.   Haneda AFB, Japan, August 5-6, 1952

            4.   Kirtland AFB, New Mexico, Nov. 4, 1957

      My principal conclusions are that scientific inadequacies
in past years of UFO investigations by Air Force Project
Bluebook have _not_ been remedied through publication of the
Condon Report, and that there remain scientifically very
important unsolved problems with respect to UFOs. The
investigative and evaluative deficiencies illustrated in the
four cases examined in detail are paralleled by equally serious
shortcomings in many other cases in the sample of about 90 UFO
cases treated in the Condon Report. Endorsement of the
conclusions of the Condon Report by the National Academy of
Sciences appears to have been based on entirely superficial
examination of the Report and the cases treated therein. Further
study, conducted on a much more sound scientific level are
needed.

----------------------------------------------------------------

SOME ILLUSTRATIVE UFO CASES - J. E. McDonald
(AAAS UFO Symposium, Boston, Dec. 27, 1969.)

Case 1. USAF RB-47, Gulf Coast area, September 19-20, 1957.

Brief summary: An Air Force RB-47, equipped with ECM (Electronic
Countermeasures) gear, manned by six officers, was followed over
a total distance in excess of 600 miles and for a time period of
more than an hour, as it flew from near Gulfport, Miss., through
Louisiana and Texas, and into southern Oklahoma. The
unidentified object was, at various times, seen visually by the
cockpit crew (as an intense white or red light), followed by
ground-radar, and detected on ECM monitoring gear aboard the
RB-47. Simultaneous appearances and disappearances on all three
of those physically distinct "channels" mark this UFO case as
especially intriguing from a scientific viewpoint. The incident
is described as Case 5 in the Condon Report and is conceded to
be unexplained. The full details, however, are not presented in
that Report.

1.  Summary of the Case:

     The case is long and involved and filled with well-attested
phenomena that defy easy explanation in terms of present-day
science and technology. The RB-47 was flying out of Forbes AFB,
Topeka, on a composite mission including gunnery exercises over
the Texas-Gulf area, navigation exercises over the open Gulf,
and ECM exercises in the return trip across the south-central
U.S. This was an RB-47 carrying a six-man crew, of whom three
were electronic warfare officers manning ECM (Electronic
counter-measures) gear in the aft portion of the aircraft. One
of the extremely interesting aspects of this case is that
electromagnetic signals of distinctly radar-like character
appeared definitely to be emitted by the UFO, yet it exhibited
performance characteristics that seem to rule out categorically
its having been any conventional or secret aircraft.

     I have discussed the incident with all six officers of the crew:

     Lewis D. Chase, pilot, Spokane, Wash.
     James H. McCoid, copilot, Offutt AFB
     Thomas H. Hanley, navigator, Vandenberg AFB
     John J. Provenzano, No. 1 monitor, Wichita
     Frank B. McClure, No. 2 monitor, Offutt AFB
     Walter A. Tuchscherer, No. 3 monitor, Topeka

Chase was a Major at the time; I failed to ask for information
on 1957 ranks of the others. McClure and Hanley are currently
Majors, so might have been Captains or Lieutenants in 1957. All
were experienced men at the time. Condon Project investigators
only talked with Chase, McCoid, and McClure, I ascertained. In
my checking it proved necessary to telephone several of them
more than once to pin down key points; nevertheless the total
case is so complex that I would assume that there are still
salient points not clarified either by the Colorado
investigators or by myself. Unfortunately, there appears to be
no way, at present to locate the personnel involved in ground-
radar observations that are a very important part of the whole
case. I shall discuss that point below.

      This flight occurred in September, 1957, just prior to the
crew's reassignment to a European base. On questioning by
Colorado investigators, flight logs were consulted, and based on
the recollection that this flight was within a short time of
departure from Forces to Germany, (plus the requirement that the
date match a flight of the known type and geography) the 9/19/57
date seems to have emerged. The uncertainty as to whether it was
early on the 19th or early on the 20th, cited above is a point
of confusion I had not noted until preparing the present notes.
Hence I am unable to add any clarification, at the moment; in
this matter of the date confusion found in Thayer's discussion
of the case (1, pp. 136-138). I shall try to check that in the
near future. For the present, it does not vitiate
case-discussion in any significant way.

     The incident is most inadequately described in the Condon
Report. The reader is left with the general notion that the
important parts occurred near Ft. Worth, an impression
strengthened by the fact that both Crow and Thayer discuss
meteorological data only for that area. One is also left with no
clear impression of the duration, which was actually over an
hour. The incident involved an unknown airborne object that
stayed with the RB-47 for over 600 miles. In case after case in
the Condon Report, close checking reveals that quite significant
features of the cases have been glossed over, or omitted, or in
some instances seriously misrepresented. I submit that to fail
to inform the reader that this particular case spans a total
distance-range of some 600 miles and lasted well over an hour is
an omission difficult to justify.

     From my nine separate interviews with the six crew members,
I assembled a picture of the events that makes it even more
puzzling than it seems on reading the Condon Report -- and even
the latter account is puzzling enough.

     Just as the aircraft crossed the Mississippi coast near
Gulfport, McClure, manning the #2 monitor, detected a signal
near their 5 o'clock position (aft of the starboard beam). It
looked to him like a legitimate ground-radar signal, but
corresponded to a position out in the Gulf. This is the actual
beginning of the complete incident; but before proceeding with
details it is necessary to make quite clear what kind of
equipment we shall be talking about as we follow McClure's
successive observations.

     Under conditions of war, bombing aircraft entering hostile
territory can be assisted in their penetrations if any of a
variety of electronic countermeasures (ECM techniques as they
are collectively termed) are brought into action against
ground-based enemy radar units. The initial step in all ECM
operations is, necessarily, that of detecting the enemy radar
and quantitatively identifying a number of relevant features of
the radar system (carrier frequency, pulse repetition frequency,
scan rate, pulse width) and, above all, its bearing relative to
the aircraft heading. The latter task is particularly ample in
principle, calling only for direction-finding antennas which
pick up the enemy signal and display on a monitor scope inside
the reconnaissance aircraft a blip or lobe that paints in the
relative bearing from which the signal is coming.

      The ECM gear used in RB-47's in 1957 is not now
classified; the #2 monitor that McClure was on, he and the
others pointed out, involved an ALA-6 direction-finder with
back-to-back antennas in a housing on the undersurface of the
RB-47 near the rear, spun at either 150 or 300 rpm as it scanned
in azimuth. Inside the aircraft, its signals were processed in
an APR-9 radar receiver and an ALA-5 pulse analyser. All later
references to the #2 monitor imply that system. The #1 monitor
employed an APD-4 direction finding system, with a pair of
antennas permanently mounted on either wing tip. Provenzano was
on the #1 monitor. Tuchscherer was on the #3 monitor, whose
specifications I did not ascertain because I could find no
indication that it was involved in the observations.

      Returning now to the initial features of the UFO episode,
McClure at first thought he had 180-degree ambiguity in his
scope, i.e., that the signal whose lobe painted at his 5 o'clock
position was actually coming in from the 11 o'clock position
perhaps from some ground radar in Louisiana. This suspicion, he
told me, was temporarily strengthened as he became aware that
the lobe was moving upscope. (It is important here and in
features of the case cited below to understand how a fixed
ground-radar paints on the ECM monitor scope as the
reconnaissance aircraft flies toward its general direction:
Suppose the ground radar is, at some instant, located at the 1
o'clock position relative to the moving aircraft, i.e., slightly
off the starboard bow. As the aircraft flies along, the relative
bearing steadily changes, so that the fixed ground unit is
"seen" successively at the 2 o'clock, the 3 o'clock, and the 4
o'clock positions, etc. The lobe paints on the monitor scope at
these successive relative azimuths, the 12 o'clock position
being at the top of the scope, 3 o'clock at the right, etc. Thus
any legitimate signal from a fixed ground radar must move
downscope, excluding the special cases in which the radar is
dead ahead or dead astern. Note carefully that we deal here only
with direction finding gear. Range is unknown; we are not here
speaking of an airborne radar set, just a radar-frequency
direction-finder. In practice, range is obtained by
triangulation computations based on successive fixes and known
aircraft speed.)

     As the lobe continued moving _upscope_, McClure said the
strength of the incoming signal and its pulse characteristics
all tended to confirm that this was some ground unit being
painted with 180-degree ambiguity for some unknown electronic
reason. It was at 2800 megacycles, a common frequency for S-band
search radars.

     However, after the lobe swung dead ahead, his earlier
hypothesis had to be abandoned for it continued swinging over to
the 11 o'clock position and continued downscope on the port
side. Clearly, no 180-degree ambiguity was capable of accounting
for this. Curiously, however, this was so anomalous that McClure
did not take it very seriously and did not at that juncture
mention it to the cockpit crew nor to his colleagues on the
other two monitors. This upscope-downscope "orbit" of the
unknown was seen only on the ALA-6, as far as I could establish.
Had nothing else occurred, this first and very significant
portion of the whole episode would almost certainly have been
for gotten by McClure.

     The signal faded as the RB-47 headed northward to the
scheduled turning point over Jackson, Miss. The mission called
for simulated detection and ECM operations against Air Force
ground radar units all along this part of the flight plan, but
other developments intervened. Shortly after making their turn
westward over Jackson, Miss., Chase noted what he thought at
first were the landing lights of some other jet coming in from
near his 11 o'clock position, at roughly the RB-47's altitude.
But no running lights were discernible and it was a single very
bright white light, closing fast. He had just alerted the rest
of the crew to be ready for sudden evasive maneuvers, when he
and McCoid saw the light almost instantaneously change
directions and rush across from left to right at an angular
velocity that Chase told me he'd never seen matched in his
flight experience. The light went from their 11 o'clock to the 2
o'clock position with great rapidity, and then blinked out.

      Immediately after that, Chase and McCoid began talking
about it on the interphone and McClure, recalling the unusual
2800 megacycle signal that he had seen over Gulfport now
mentioned that peculiar incident for the first time to Chase and
McCoid. It occurred to him at that point to set his #2 monitor
to scan at 2800 mcs. On the first scan, McClure told me, he got
a strong 2800 mcs signal from their 2 o'clock position, the
bearing on which the luminous unknown object had blinked out
moments earlier.

     Provenzano told me that right after that they had checked
out the #2 monitor on valid ground radar stations to be sure it
was not malfunctioning and it appeared to be in perfect order.
He then checked on his #1 monitor and also got a signal from the
same bearing. There remained, of course, the possibility that
just by chance, this signal was from a real radar down on the
ground and off in that direction. But as the minutes went by,
and the aircraft continued westward at about 500 kts. the
relative bearing of the 2800 mcs source did not move downscope
on the #2 monitor, but kept up with them.

     This quickly led to a situation in which the entire 6-man
crew focussed all attention on the matter; the incident is still
vivid in the minds of all the men, though their recollection for
various details varies with the particular activities they were
engaged in. Chase varied speed, to see if the relative bearing
would change but nothing altered. After over a hundred miles of
this, with the 2800 mcs source keeping pace with the aircraft,
they were getting into the radar-coverage area of the Carswell
AFB GCI (Ground Controlled Intercept) unit and Chase radioed
that unit to ask if they showed any other air traffic near the
RB-47.  Carswell GCI immediately came back with the information
that there was apparently another aircraft about 10 miles from
them at their 2 o'clock position. (The RB-47 was unambiguously
identifiable by its IFF signal; the "other aircraft" was seen by
"skin paint" Only, i.e., by direct radar reflection rather than
via an IFF transponder, Col. Chase explained.)

      This information, each of the men emphasized to me in one
way or another, made them a bit uneasy for the first time. I
asked McClure a question that the Colorado investigators either
failed to ask or did not summarize in their Report. Was the
signal in all respects comparable to that of a typical ground
radar? McClure told me that this was what baffled him the most,
then and now. All the radar signature characteristics, as read
out on his ALA-5 pulse analyser, were completely normal -- it
had a pulse repetition frequency and pulse width like a CPS-6B
and even simulated a scan rate: But its intensity, McClure
pointed out, was so strong that "it would have to had an antenna
bigger than a bomber to put out that much signal." And now, the
implications of the events over Gulfport took on new meaning.
The upscope- downscope sweep of his #2 monitor lobe implied that
this source, presuming it to be the same one now also being seen
on ground radar at Carswell GCI, had flown a circle around the
RB-47 at 30-35,000 ft altitude while the aircraft was doing
about 500 kts.

     Shortly after Carswell GCI began following the two targets,
RB-47 and unknown, still another significant action unfolded.
McClure suddenly noted the lobe on the #2 monitor was beginning
to go upscope, and almost simultaneously, Chase told me, GCI
called out that the second airborne target was starting to move
forward. Keep in mind that no visual target was observable here;
after blinking out at the 12 o'clock position, following its
lightning-like traverse across the nose of the aircraft, no
light had been visible. The unknown now proceeded to move
steadily around to the 12 o'clock position, followed all the
while on the #2 monitor and on the GCI scope down at Carswell
near Ft. Worth.

     As soon as the unknown reached the 12 o'clock position,
Chase and McCoid suddenly saw a bright red glow "bigger than a
house", Chase said, and lying dead ahead, precisely the bearing
shown on the passive radar direction-finder that McClure was on
and precisely the bearing now indicated on the GCI scope. _Three
independent sensing systems_ were at this juncture giving
seemingly consistent-indications: two pairs of human eyes, a
ground radar, and a direction-finding radar receiver in the
aircraft.

     One of the important points not settled by the Colorado
investigations concerned the question of whether the unknown was
ever painted on any radar set on the RB-47 itself. Some of the
men thought the navigator had seen it on his set, others were
unsure. I eventually located Maj. Hanley at Vandenberg and he
informed me that all through the incident, which he remembered
very well, he tried, unsuccessfully to pick up the unknown on
his navigational radar (K-system). I shall not recount all of
the details of his efforts and his comments, but only mention
the end result of my two telephone interviews with him. The
important question was what sort of effective range that set
had. Hanley gave the pertinent information that it could just
pick up a large tanker of the KC-97 type at about 4 miles range,
when used in the "altitude- hold" mode, with antenna tipped up
to maximum elevation. But both at the start of its involvement
and during the object's swing into the 12 o'clock position, GCI
showed it remaining close to 10 miles in range from the RB-47.
Thus Hanley's inability to detect it on his K-system
navigational radar in altitude hold only implies that whatever
was out there had a radar cross-section that was less than about
16 times that of a KC-97 (roughly twice 4 miles, inverse
4th-power law), The unknown gave a GCI return that suggested a
cross-section comparable to an ordinary aircraft, Chase told me,
which is consistent with Hanley's non-detection of the object.
The Condon Report gives the impression the navigator did detect
it, but this is not correct.

     I have in my files many pages of typed notes on my
interviews, and cannot fill in all of the intriguing details
here. Suffice it to say that Chase then went to maximum
allowable power, hoping to close with the unknown, but it just
stayed ahead at about 10 miles as GCI kept telling them; it
stayed as a bright red light dead ahead, and it kept painting as
a bright lobe on the top of McClure's ALA-6 scope. By this time
they were well into Texas still at about 35,000 ft and doing
upwards of 500 knots, when Chase saw it begin to veer to the
right and head between Dallas and Ft. Worth. Getting FAA
clearance to alter his own flight plan and to make sure other
jet traffic was out of his way, he followed its turn, and then
realized he was beginning to close on it for the first time.
Almost immediately GCI told him the unknown had stopped moving
on the ground-radarscope. Chase and McCoid watched as they came
almost up to it. Chase's recollections on this segment of the
events were distinctly clearer than McCoid's. McCoid was, of
course, sitting aft of Chase and had the poorer view; also he
said he was doing fuel-reserve calculations in view of the
excess fuel-use in their efforts to shake the unknown, and had
to look up from the lighted cockpit to try to look out
intermittently, while Chase in the forward seat was able to keep
it in sight more nearly continuously. Chase told me that he'd
estimate that it was just ahead of the RB-47 and definitely
below them when it instantaneously blinked out, At that same
moment McClure announced on the interphone that he'd lost the
2800 mcs signal, and GCI said it had disappeared from their
scope. Such simultaneous loss of signal on what we can term
three separate channels is most provocative, most puzzling.

     Putting the aircraft into a left turn (which Chase noted
consumes about 15-20 miles at top speed), they kept looking back
to try to see the light again. And, about halfway through the
turn (by then the aircraft had reached the vicinity of Mineral
Wells, Texas, Chase said), the men in the cockpit suddenly saw
the bright red light flash on again, back along their previous
flight path but distinctly lower, and simultaneously GCI got a
target again and McClure started picking up a 2800 mcs signal at
that bearing: (As I heard one after another of these men
describe all this, I kept trying to imagine how it was possible
that Condon could listen, at the October, 1967, plasma
conference at the UFO Project, as Col. Chase recounted all this
and shrug his shoulders and walk out.)

     Securing permission from Carswell GCI to undertake the
decidedly non- standard maneuver of diving on the unknown, Chase
put the RB-47 nose down and had reached about 20,000 ft, he
recalls, when all of a sudden the light blinked out, GCI lost it
on their scope, and McClure reported loss of signal on the #2
monitor: Three-channel consistency once more.

     Low on fuel, Chase climbed back up to 25,000 and headed
north for Oklahoma. He barely had it on homeward course when
McClure got a blip dead astern and Carswell radioed that they
had a target once more trailing the RB- 47 at about 10 miles.
Rear visibility from the topblisters of the RB-4 now precluded
easy visual check, particularly if the unknown was then at lower
altitude (Chase estimated that it might have been near 15,000 ft
when he lost it in the dive). It followed them to southern
Oklahoma and then disappeared.

2. Discussion:

    This incident is an especially good example of a UFO case in
which observer credibility and reliability do not come into
serious question, a case in which more than one (here three)
channel of information figures in the over-all observations, and
a case in which the reported phenomena appear to defy
explanation in terms of either natural or technological
phenomena.

    In the Condon Report, the important initial incident in
which the unknown 2800 MC source appeared to orbit the RB-47
near Gulfport is omitted. In the Condon Report, the reader is
given no hint that the object was with the aircraft for over 600
miles and for over an hour. No clear sequence of these events is
spelled out, nor is the reader made aware of all of the "three-
channel" simultaneous appearances or disappearances that were so
emphatically stressed to me by both Chase and McClure in my
interviews with them. But even despite those degrees of
incompleteness, any reader of the account of this case in the
Condon Report must wonder that an incident of this sort could be
left as unexplained and yet ultimately treated, along with the
other unexplained cases in that Report, as calling for no
further scientific attention.

    Actually, various hypotheses (radar anomalies, mirage
effects) are weighed in one part of the Condon Report where this
case is discussed separately (pp. 136-138). But the suggestion
made there that perhaps an inversion near 2 km altitude was
responsible for the returns at the Carswell GCI unit is wholly
untenable. In an Appendix, a very lengthy but non-relevant
discussion of ground return from anomalous propagation appears;
in fact, it is so unrelated to the actual circumstances of this
case as to warrant no comment here. Chase's account emphasized
that the GCI radar(s) had his aircraft and the unknown object
on-scope for a total flight-distance of the order of several
hundred miles, including a near overflight of the ground radar.
With such wide variations in angles of incidence of the
ground-radar beam on any inversion or duct, however intense, the
possibility of anomalous propagation effects yielding a
consistent pattern of spurious echo matching the reported
movements and the appearances and disappearances of the target
is infinitesimal. And the more so in view of the simultaneous
appearances and disappearances on the ECM gear and via visible
emissions from the unknown. To suggest, as is tentatively done
on p. 138 that the "red glow" might have been a "mirage of
Oklahoma City", when the pilot's description of the luminous
source involves a wide range of viewing angles, including two
instances when he was viewing it at quite large depression
angles, is wholly unreasonable. Unfortunately, that kind of
casual ad hoc hypothesizing with almost no attention to relevant
physical considerations runs all through the case-discussions in
the treatment of radar and optical cases in the Condon Report,
frequently (though not in this instance) being made the basis of
"explanations" that are merely absurd. On p. 265 of the Report,
the question of whether this incident might be explained in
terms of any "plasma effect" is considered but rejected. In the
end, this case is conceded to be unexplained.

    No evidence that a report on this event reached Project
Bluebook was found by the Colorado investigators. That may seem
hard to believe for those who are under the impression that the
Air Force has been diligently and exhaustively investigating UFO
reports over the past 22 years. But to those who have examined
more closely the actual levels of investigation, lack of a
report on this incident is not so surprising. Other comparable
instances could he cited, and still more where the military
aircrews elected to spare themselves the bother of
interrogation,by not even reporting events about as puzzling as
those found in this RB-47 incident.

    But what is of greatest present interest is the point that
here we have a well-reported, multi-channel, multiple-witness
UFO report, coming in fact from within the Air Force itself,
investigated by the Condon Report team, conceded to be
unexplained, and yet it is, in final analysis, ignored by Dr.
Condon. In no section of the Report specifically written by the
principal investigator does he even allude to this intriguing
case. My question is how such events can be written off as
demanding no further scientific study. To me, such cases seem to
cry out for the most intensive scientific study -- and the more
so because they are actually so much more numerous than the
scientific community yet realizes. There is a scientific mystery
here that is being ignored and shoved under the rug; the
strongest and most unjustified shove has come from the Condon
Report. "unjustified" because that Report itself contains so
many scientifically puzzling unexplained cases (approximately 30
out of 90 cases considered) that it is extremely difficult to
understand how its principal investigator could have construed
the contents of the Report as supporting a view that UFO studies
should be terminated.

Case 2. Lakenheath and Bentwaters RAF/USAF units; England,
        August 13-14, 1956.

Brief summary: Observations of unidentified objects by USAF and
RAF personnel, extending over 5 hours, and involving
ground-radar, airborne-radar, ground visual and airborne-visual
sightings of high-speed unconventionally maneuvering obJects in
the vicinity of two RAF stations at night. It is Case 2 in the
Condon Report and is there conceded to be unexplained.

1.   Introduction:

     This case will illustrate, in significant ways, the
     following points:

     a)   It illustrates the fact that many scientifically
     intriguing UFO reports have lain in USAF/Bluebook files
     for years without knowledge thereof by the scientific
     community.

     b)   It represents a large subset of UFO cases in which
     all of the observations stemmed from military sources and
     which, had there been serious and competent scientific
     interest operating in Project Bluebook, could have been
     very thoroughly investigated while the information was
     fresh. It also illustrates the point that the actual
     levels of investigation were entirely inadequate in even
     as unexplainable and involved cases as this one.

     c)   It illustrates the uncomfortably incomplete and
     internally inconsistent features that one encounters in
     almost every report of its kind in the USAF/Bluebook files
     at Wright-Patterson AFB, features attesting to the dearth
     of scientific competence in the Air Force UFO investigations
     over the past 20 years.

     d)   It illustrates, when the original files are carefully
     studied and compared with the discussion thereof in the
     Condon Report, shortcomings in presentation and critique
     given many cases in the Condon Report.

     e)   Finally, I believe it illustrates an example of those
     cases conceded to be unexplainable by the Condon Report
     that argue need for much more extensive and more thorough
     scientific investigation of the UFO problem, a need
     negated in the Condon Report and in the Academy endorsement
     thereof.

    My discussion of this case will be based upon the 30-page
Bluebook case-file, plus certain other information presented on
it in the Condon Report. This "Lakenheath case" was not known
outside of USAF circles prior to publication of the Condon
Report. None of the names of military personnel involved are
given in the Condon Report. (Witness names, dates, and locales
are deleted from all of the main group of cases in that Report,
seriously impeding independent scientific check of case
materials.) I secured copies of the case-file from Bluebook, but
all names of military personnel involved in the incident were
cut out of the Xerox copies prior to releasing the material to
me. Hence I have been unable to interview personally the key
witnesses. However, there is no indication that anyone on the
colorado Project did any personal interviews, either; so it
would appear I have had access to the same basic data used in
the Condon Report's treatment of this extremely interesting
case.

    For no Justified reason, the Condon Report not only deletes
witness names, but also names of localities of the UFO incidents
in its main sample of 59 cases. In this Lakenheath case,
deletion of locality names creates much confusion for the
reader, since three distinct RAF stations figure in,the incident
and since the discharged non-commissioned officer from whom they
received first word of this UFO episode confused the names of
two of those stations in his own account that appears in the
Condon Report. That, plus other reportorial deficiencies in the
presentation of the Lakenheath case in the Condon Report, will
almost certainly have concealed its real significance from most
readers of the Report.

    Unfortunately, the basic Bluebook file is itself about as
confusing as most Bluebook files on UFO cases. I shall attempt
to mitigate as many of those difficulties as I can in the
following, by putting the account into better over-all order
than one finds in the Condon Report treatment.

2. General Circumstances:

    The entire episode extended from about 2130Z, August 13, to
0330Z, August 14, 1956; thus this is a nighttime case. The
events occurred in east-central England, chiefly in Suffolk. The
initial reports centered around Bentwaters RAF Station, located
about six miles east of Ipswich, near the coast, while much of
the subsequent action centers around Lakenheath RAF Station,
located some 20 miles northeast of Cambridge. Sculthorpe RAF
Station also figures in the account, but only to a minor extent;
it is near Fakenham, in the vicinity of The Wash. GCA (Ground
Controlled Approach) radars at two of those three stations were
involved in the ground-radar sightings, as was an RTCC (Radar
Traffic Control Center) radar unit at Lakenheath. The USAF
non-com who wrote to the Colorado Project about this incident
was a Watch Supervisor on duty at the Lakenheath RTCC unit that
night. His detailed account is reproduced in the Condon Report
(pp. 248-251). The Report comments on "the remarkable accuracy
of the account of the witness as given in (his reproduced
letter), which was apparently written from memory 12 years
after the incident." I would concur, but would note that, had
the Colorado Project only investigated more such striking cases
of past years, it would have found many other witnesses in UFO
cases whose vivid recollections often match surprising well
checkable contemporary accounts. My experience thereon has been
that, in multiple- witness cases where one can evaluate
consistency of recollections, the more unusual and inexplicable
the original UFO episode, the more it impressed upon the several
witnesses' memories a meaningful and still-useful pattern of
relevant recollections. Doubtless, another important factor
operates: the UFO incidents that are the most striking and most
puzzling probably have been discussed by the key witnesses
enough times that their recollections have been thereby
reinforced in a useful way.

    The only map given in the Condon Report is based on a
sketch-map made by the non-com who alerted them to the case. It
is misleading, for Sculthorpe is shown 50 miles east of
Lakenheath, whereas it actually lies 30 miles north- northeast.
The map does not show Bentwaters at all; it is actually some 40
miles east-southeast of Lakenheath. Even as basic items as those
locations do not appear to have been ascertained by those who
prepared the discussion of this case in the Condon Report,
which is most unfortunate, yet not atypical.

    That this incident was subsequently discussed by many
Lakenheath personnel was indicated to me by a chance event. In
the course of my investigations of another radar UFO case from
the Condon Report, that of 9/11/67 at Kincheloe AFB, I found
that the radar operator involved therein had previously been
stationed with the USAF detachment at Lakenheath and knew of the
events at second-hand because they were still being discussed
there by radar personnel when he arrived many months later.

3.  Initial Events at Bentwaters, 2130Z to 2200Z;

    One of the many unsatisfactory aspects of the Condon Report
is its frequent failure to put before the reader a complete
account of the UFO cases it purports to analyze scientifically.
In the present instance, the Report omits all details of three
quite significant radar-sightings made by Bentwaters GCA
personnel prior to their alerting the Lakenheath GCA and RTCC
groups at 2255 LST. This omission is certainly not because of
correspondingly slight mention in the original Bluebook
case-file; rather, the Bentwaters sightings actually receive
more Bluebook attention than the subsequent Lakenheath events.
Hence, I do not see how such omissions in the Condon Report can
be justified.

    a) _First radar siqhting, 2130Z._ Bentwaters GCA operator,
A/2c ______ (I shall use a blank to indicate the names
razor-bladed out of my copies of the case-file prior to release
of the file items to me), reported picking up a target 25-30
miles ESE, which moved at very high speed on constant 295 deg.
heading across his scope until he lost it 15-20 miles to the NW
of Bentwaters. In the Bluebook file, A/2c _____ is reported as
describing it as a strong radar echo, comparable to that of a
typical aircraft, until it weakened near the end of its path
across his scope. He is quoted as estimating a speed of the
order of 4000 mph, but two other cited quantities suggest even
higher speeds. A transit time of 30 seconds is given, and if one
combines that with the reported range of distance traversed,
40-50 miles, a speed of about 5000- 6000 mph results. Finally,
A/2c _____ stated that it covered about 5-6 miles per sweep of
the AN/MPN-llA GCA radar he was using. The sweep-period for that
set is given as 2 seconds (30 rpm), so this yields an even
higher speed- estimate of about 9000 mph. (Internal
discrepancies of this sort are quite typical of Bluebook
case-files, I regret to say. My study of many such files during
the past three years leaves me no conclusion but that Bluebook
work has never represented high-caliber scientific work, but
rather has operated as a perfunctory bookkeeping and filing
operation during most of its life. Of the three speed figures
just mentioned, the latter derives from the type of observation
most likely to be reasonably accurate, in my opinion. The
displacement of a series of successive radar blips on a
surveillance radar such as the MPN-11A, can be estimated to
perhaps a mile or so with little difficulty, when the operator
has as large a number of successive blips to work with as is
here involved. Nevertheless, it is necessary to regard the speed
as quite uncertain here, though presumably in the range of
several thousand miles pr hour and hence not associable with any
conventional aircraft, nor with still higher-speed meteors
either.)

    b) _Second radar siqhting, 2130-2155Z._ A few minutes after
the preceding event, T/Sgt _____ picked up on the same MPN-11A a
group of 12-15 objects about 8 miles SW of Brentwaters. In the
report to Bluebook, he pointed out that "these objects appeared
as normal targets on the GCA scope and that normal checks made
to determine possible malfunctions of the GCA radar failed to
indicate anything was technically wrong." The dozen or so
objects were moving together towards the NE at varying speeds,
ranging between 80 and 125 mph, and "the 12 to 15 unidentified
objects were preceded by 3 objects which were in a triangular
formation with an estimated 1000 feet separating each object in
this formation." The dozen objects to the rear "were scattered
behind the lead formation of 3 at irregular intervals with the
whole group simultaneously covering a 6 to 7 mile area," the
official report notes.

        Consistent radar returns came from this group during
their 25-minute movement from the point at which they were first
picked up, 8 mi. SW, to a point about 40 mi. NE of Bentwaters,
their echoes decreasing in intensity as they moved off to the
NE. When the group reached a point some 40 mi. NE, they all
appeared to converge to form a single radar echo whose intensity
is described as several times larger than a B-36 return under
comparable conditions. Then motion ceased, while this single
strong echo remained stationary for 10-15 minutes. Then it
resumed motion to the NE for 5-6 miles, stopped again for 3-5
minutes, and finally moved northward and off the scope.

    c) _Third radar siqhting, 2200Z._ Five minutes after the
foregoing formation moved off-scope, T/Sgt _____ detected an
unidentified target about 30 mi. E of the Bentwaters GCA
station, and tracked it in rapid westward motion to a point
about 25 mi. W of the station, where the object "suddenly
disappeared off the radar screen by rapidly moving out of the
GCS radation pattern," according to his interpretation of the
event. Here, again, we get discordant speed information, for
T/Sgt _____ gave the speed only as being "in excess of 4000
mph," whereas the time-duration of the tracking, given as 16
sec, implies a speed of 12,000 mph, for the roughly 55 mi.
track-length reported. Nothing in the Bluebook files indicates
that this discrepancy was investigated further or even noticed,
so one can say only that the apparent speed lay far above that
of conventional aircraft.

    d) _Other observations at Bentwaters._ A control tower
sergeant, aware of the concurrent radar tracking, noted a light
"the size of a pin-head at arm's length" at about 10 deg.
elevation to the SSE. It remained there for about one hour,
intermittently appearing and disappearing. Since Mars was in
that part of the sky at that time, a reasonable interpretation
is that the observer was looking at that planet.

      A T-33 of the 512th Fighter Interceptor Squadron,
returning to Bentwaters from a routine flight at about 2130Z,
was vectored to the NE to search for the group of objects being
tracked in that sector. Their search, unaided by airborne radar,
led to no airborne sighting of any aircraft or other objects in
that area, and after about 45 minutes they terminated search,
having seen only a bright star in the east and a coastal beacon
as anything worth noting. The Bluebook case-file contains 1956
USAF discussions of the case that make a big point of the
inconclusiveness of the tower operator's sighting and the
negative results of the T-33 search, but say nothing about the
much more puzzling radar-tracking incidents than to stress that
they were of "divergent" directions, intimating that this
somehow put them in the category of anomalous propagation, which
scarcely follows. Indeed, none of the three cited radar
sightings exhibits any features typical of AP echoes. The winds
over the Bentwaters area are given in the file. They jump from
the surface level (winds from 230 deg. at 5-10 kts) to the 6000
ft level (260 deg., 30 kts), and then hold at a steady 260 deg.
up to 50,000 ft, with speeds rising to a maximum of 90 kts near
30,000 ft. Even if one sought to invoke the highly dubious
Borden-Vickers hypothesis (moving waves on an inversion
surface), not even the slowest of the tracked echoes (80-125
mph) could be accounted for, nor is it even clear that the
direction would be explainable. Furthermore, the strength of the
individual echoes (stated as comparable to normal aircraft
returns), the merging of the 15 or so into a single echo, the
two intervals of stationarity, and final motion off-scope at a
direction about 45 deg. from the initial motion, are all wholly
unexplainable in terms of AP in these 2130-2155Z incidents. The
extremely high-speed westward motion of single targets is even
further from any known radar-anomaly associated with disturbed
propagation conditions. Blips that move across scopes from one
sector to the opposite, in steady heading at steady apparent
speed, correspond neither to AP nor to internal electronic
disturbances. Nor could interference phenomena fit such observed
echo behavior. Thus, this 30-minute period, 213O- 2200Z,
embraced three distinct events for which no satisfactory
explanation exists. That these three events are omitted from the
discussions in the Condon Report is unfortunate, for they serve
to underscore the scientific significance of subsequent events
at both Bentwaters and Lakenheath stations.

4. Comments on Reporting of Events After 2255Z, 8/13/56:

     The events summarized above were communicated to Bluebook
by Capt. Edward L. Holt of the 81st Fighter-Bomber Wing
stationed at Bentwaters, as Report No. IR-1-56, dated 31 August,
1956. All events occurring subsequent to 2200Z, on the other
hand, were communicated to Project Bluebook via an earlier,
lengthy teletype transmission from the Lakenheath USAF unit,
sent out in the standard format of the report-form specified by
regulation AFR200-2. Two teletype transmissions, dated 8/17/56
and 8/21/56, identical in basic content, were sent from
Lakenheath to Bluebook. The Condon Report presents the content
of that teletype report on pp. 252-254, in full, except for
deletion of all names and localities and omission of one
important item to be noted later here. However, most readers
will be entirely lost because what is presented actually
constitutes a set of answers to questions that are not stated!
The Condon Report does not offer the reader the hint that the
version of AFR200-2 appearing in the Report's Appendix, pp.
819-826 (there identified by its current designation, AFR80-17)
would provide the reader with the standardized questions needed
to translate much of the otherwise extremely confusing array of
answers on pp. 252-254. For that reason, plus others, many
readers will almost certainly be greatly (and entirely
unnecessarily) confused on reading this important part of the
Lakenheath report in the Condon Report.

    That confusion, unfortunately, does not wholly disappear
upon laboriously matching questions with answers, for it has
long been one of the salient deficiencies of the USAF program of
UFO report collection that the format of AFR200-2 (or its sequel
AFR80-17) is usually only barely adequate and (especially for
complex episodes such as that involved here) often entirely
incapable of affording the reporting office enough scope to set
out clearly and in proper chronological order all of the events
that may be of potential scientific significance. Anyone who has
studied many Bluebook reports in the AFR200-2 format, dating
back to 1953, will be uncomfortably aware of this gross
difficulty. Failure to carry out even modest followup
investigations and incorporate findings thereof into Bluebook
case-files leaves most intriguing Bluebook UFO cases full of
unsatisfactorily answered questions. But those deficiencies do
not, in my opinion, prevent the careful reader from discerning
that very large numbers of those UFO cases carry highly
significant scientific implications, implications of an
intriguing problem going largely unexamined in past years.

5. _Initial Alerting of Lakenheath GCA and RTCC:_

    The official files give no indication of any further UFO
radar sightings by Bentwaters GCA from 2200 until 2255Z. But, at
the latter time, another fast-moving target was picked up 30 mi.
E of Bentwaters, heading almost due west at a speed given as
"2000-4000 mph". It passed almost directly over Bentwaters,
disappearing from their GCA scope for the usual beam-angle
reasons when within 2-3 miles (the Condon Report intimates that
this close in disappearance is diagnostic of AP, which seems to
be some sort of tacit over- acceptance of the 1952
Borden-Vickers hypothesis), and then moving on until it
disappeared from the scope 30 mi. W of Bentwaters.

    Very significantly, this radar-tracking of the passage of
the unidentified target was matched by concurrent visual
observations, by personnel on the ground looking up and also
from an overhead aircraft looking down. Both visual reports
involved only a light, a light described as blurred out by its
high speed; but since the aircraft (identified as a C-47 by the
Lakenheath non-com whose letter called this case to the
attention of the Colorado Project) was flying only at 4000 ft,
the altitude of the unknown object is bracketed within rather
narrow bounds. (No mention of any sonic boom appears; but the
total number of seemingly quite credible reports of UFOs moving
at speeds far above sonic values and yet not emitting booms is
so large that one must count this as just one more instance of
many currently inexplicable phenomena associated with the UFO
problem.) The reported speed is not fast enough for a meteor,
nor does the low-altitude flat traJectory and absence of a
concussive shock wave match any meteoric hypothesis. That there
was visual confirmation from observation points both above and
below this fast-moving radar-tracked obJect must be viewed as
adding still further credence to, and scientific interest in,
the prior three Bentwaters radar sightings of the previous hour.

     Apparently immediately after the 2255Z events, Bentwaters
GCA alerted GCA Lakenheath, which lay off to its WNW. The
answers to Questions 2(A) and 2(B) of the AFR200-2 format (on p.
253 of the Condon Report) seem to imply that Lakenheath ground
observers were alerted in time to see a luminous object come in,
at an estimated altitude of 2000-2500 ft, and on a heading
towards SW. The lower estimated altitude and the altered
heading do not match the Bentwaters sighting, and the ambiguity
so inherent in the AFR200-2 format simply cannot be eliminated
here, so the precise timing is not certain. All that seems
certain here is that, at or subsequent to the Bentwaters
alert-message, Lakenheath ground observers saw a luminous object
come in out of the NE at low altitude, then _stop_, and take up
an easterly heading and resume motion eastward out of sight.

     The precise time-sequence of the subsequent observations
is not clearly deducible from the Lakenheath TWX sent in
compliance with AFR200-2. But that many very interesting events,
scientifically very baffling events, soon took place is clear
from the report. No followup, from Bluebook or other USAF
sources,'was undertaken, and so this potentially very important
case, like hundreds of others, simply sent into the Bluebook
files unclarified. I am forced to stress that nothing reveals so
clearly the past years of scientifically inadequate UFO
investigation as a few days' visit to Wright- Patterson AFB and
a diligent reading of Bluebook case reports. No one with any
genuine scientific interest in solving the UFO problem would
have let accumulate so many years of reports like this one
without seeing to it that the UFO reporting and followup
investigations were brought into entirely different status from
that in which they have lain for over 20 years.

    Deficiencies having been noted, I next catalog, without
benefit of the exact time-ordering that is so crucial to full
assessment of any UFO event, the intriguing observations and
events at or near Lakenheath subsequent to the 2255Z alert from
Bentwaters.

6.  Non-chronological Summary of Lakenheath Sightings,
2255Z-0330Z.

    a. _Visual observations from ground._

        As noted two paragraphs above, following the 2255Z
alert from GCA Bentwaters, USAF ground observers at the
Lakenheath RAF Station observed a luminous object come in on a
southwesterly heading, stop, and then move off out of sight to
the east. Subsequently, at an unspecified time, two moving white
lights were seen, and "ground observers stated one white light
joined up with another and both disappeared in formation
together" (recall earlier radar observations of merging of
targets seen by Bentwaters GCA). No discernible features of
these luminous sources were noted by ground observers, but both
the observers and radar operators concurred in their
report-description that "the objects (were) travelling at
terrific speeds and then stopping and changing course
immediately." In a passage of the original Bluebook report which
was for some reason not included in the version presented in the
Condon Report, this concordance of radar and visual observations
is underscored: "Thus two radar sets (i.e., Lakenheath GCA and
RATCC radars) and three ground observers report substantially
same." Later in the original Lakenheath report, this same
concordance is reiterated: "the fact that radar and ground
visual observations were made on its rapid acceleration and
abrupt stops certainly lend credulance (sic) to the report."

    Since the date of this incident coincides with the date of
peak frequency of the Perseid meteors, one might ask whether any
part of the visual observations could have been due to Perseids.
The basic Lakenheath report to Bluebook notes that the ground
observers reported "unusual amount of shooting stars in sky",
indicating that the erratically moving light(s) were readily
distinguishable from meteors. The report further remarks thereon
that "the objects seen were definitely not shooting stars as
there were no trails as are usual with such sightings."
Furthermore, the stopping and course reversals are incompatible
with any such hypothesis in the first place.

    AFR200-2 stipulates that observer be asked to compare the
UFO to the size of various familiar objects when held at arm's
length (Item 1-B in the format). In answer to that item, the
report states: "One observer from ground stated on first
observation object was about size of golf ball. As object
continued in flight it became a 'pin point'." Even allowing for
the usual inaccuracies in such estimates, this further rules out
Perseids, since that shower yields oniy meteors of quite low
luminosity.

    In summary of the ground-visual observations, it appears
that three ground observers at Lakenheath saw at least two
luminous objects, saw these over an extended though indefinite
time period, saw them execute sharp course changes, saw them
remain motionless at least once, saw two objects merge into a
single luminous object at one juncture, and reported motions in
general accord with concurrent radar observations. These
ground-visual observations, in themselves, constitute
scientifically interesting UFO report-material. Neither
astronomical nor aeronautical explanations, nor any
meteorological-optical explanations, match well those reported
phenomena. One could certainly wish for a far more complete and
time-fixed report on these visual observations, but even the
above information suffices to suggest some unusual events. The
unusualness will be seen to be even greater on next examining
the ground-radar observations from Lakenheath. And even stronger
interest emerges as we then turn, last of all, to the
airborne-visual and airborne-radar observations made near
Lakenheath.

b. _Ground-radar observations at Lakenheath._

    The GCA surveillance radar at Lakenheath is identified as a
CPN-4, while the RATCC search radar was a CPS-5 (as the non-com
correctly recalled in his letter). Because the report makes
clear that these two sets were concurrently following the
unknown targets, it is relevant to note that they have different
wavelengths, pulse repetition frequencies, and scan-rates, which
(for reasons that need not be elaborated here) tends to rule out
several radar-anomaly hypotheses (e.g., interference echoes from
a distant radar, second-time-around effects, AP). However, the
reported maneuvers are so unlike any of those spurious effects
that it seems almost unnecessary to confront those possibilities
here.

    As with the ground-visual observations, so also with these
radar-report items, the AFR200-2 format limitations plus the
other typical deficiencies of reporting of UFO events preclude
reconstruction in detail, and in time-order, of all the relevant
events. I get the impression that the first object seen visually
by ground observers was not radar-tracked, although this is
unclear from the report to Bluebook. One target whose motions
were jointly followed both on the CPS-5 at the Radar Air
Traffic Control Center and on the shorter- range,
faster-scanning CPN-4 at the Lakenheath GCA unit was tracked
"from 6 miles west to about 20 miles SW where target stopped and
assumed a stationary position for five minutes. Target then
assumed a heading northwesterly (I presume this was intended to
read 'northeasterly', and the non-com so indicates in his
recollective account of what appears to be the same maneuvers)
into the Station and stopped two miles NW of Station. Lakenheath
GCA reports three to four additional targets were doing the same
maneuvers in the vicinity of the Station. Thus two radar sets
and three ground observers report substantially same." (Note
that the quoted item includes the full passage omitted from the
Condon Report version, and note that it seems to imply that this
devious path with two periods of stationary hovering was also
reported by the visual observers. However, the latter is not
entirely certain because of ambiguities in the structure of the
basic report as forced into the AFR200-2 format).

    At some time, which context seems to imply as rather later
in the night (the radar sightings went on until about 0330Z),
"Lakenheath Radar Air Traffic Control Center observed object 17
miles east of Station making sharp rectangular course of flight.
This maneuver was not conducted by circular path but on right
angles at speeds of 600-800 mph. Object would stop and start
with amazing rapidity." The report remarks that "...the
controllers are experienced and technical skills were used in
attempts to determine just what the objects were. When the
target would stop on the scope, the MTI was used. However, the
target would still appear on the scope." (The latter is
puzzling. MTI, Moving Target Indication, is a standard feature
on search or surveillance radars that eliminates ground returns
and returns from large buildings and other motionless objects.
This very curious feature of display of stationary modes while
the MTI was on adds further strong argument to the negation of
any hypothesis of anomalous propagation of ground-returns. It
was as if the unidentified target, while seeming to hover
motionless, was actually undergoing small-amplitude but
high-speed jittering motion to yield a scope- displayed return
despite the MTI. Since just such jittery motion has been
reported in visual UFO sightings on many occasions, and since
the coarse resolution of a PPI display would not permit
radar-detection of such motion if its amplitude were below, say,
one or two hundred meters, this could conceivably account for
the persistence of the displayed return during the episodes of
"stationary" hovering, despite use of MTI.)

     The portion of the radar sightings just described seems to
have been vividly recollected by the retired USAF non-com who
first called this case to the attention of the Colorado group.
Sometime after the initial Bentwaters alert, he had his men at
the RATCC scanning all available scopes, various scopes set at
various ranges. He wrote that "...one controller noticed a
stationary target on the scopes about 20 to 25 miles southwest.
This was unusual, as a stationary target should have been
eliminated unless it was moving at a speed of at least 40 to 45
knots. And yet we could detect no movement at all. We watched
this target on all the different scopes for several minutes and
I called the GCA Unit at (Lakenheath) to see if they had this
target on their scope in the same geographical location. As we
watched, the stationary target started moving at a speed of 400
to 600 mph in a north- northeast direction until it reached a
point about 20 miles north northwest of (Lakenheath). There was
no slow start or build-up to this speed -- it was constant from
the second it started to move until it stopped." (This
description, written 11 years after the event, matches the 1956
intelligence report from the Lakenheath USAF unit so well, even
seeming to avoid the typographical direction-error that the
Lakenheath TWX contained, that one can only assume that he was
deeply impressed by this whole incident. That, of course, is
further indicated by the very fact that he wrote the Colorado
group about it in the first place.) His letter (Condon Report,
p. 249) adds that "the target made several changes in location,
always in a straight line, always at about 600 mph and always
from a standing or stationary point to his next stop at constant
speed -- no build-up in speed at all -- these changes in
location varied from 8 miles to 20 miles in length --no set
pattern at any time. Time spent stationary between movements
also varied from 3 or 4 minutes to 5 or 6 minutes..." Because
his account jibes so well with the basic Bluebook file report in
the several particulars in which it can be checked, the
foregoing quotation from the letter as reproduced in the Condon
Report stands as meaningful indication of the highly
unconventional behavior of the unknown aerial target. Even
allowing for some recollective uncertainties, the non-com's
description of the behavior of the unidentified radar target
lies so far beyond any meteorological, astronomical, or
electronic explanation as to stand as one challenge to any
suggestions that UFO reports are of negligible scientific
interest.

    The non-com's account indicates that they plotted the
discontinuous stop- and-go movements of the target for some tens
of minutes before it was decided to scramble RAF interceptors to
investigate. That third major aspect of the Lakenheath events
must now be considered. (The delay in scrambling interceptors is
noteworthy in many Air Force-related UFO incidents of the past
20 years. I believe this reluctance stems from unwillingness to
take action lest the decision-maker be accused of taking
seriously a phenomenon which the Air Force officially treats as
non-existent.)

c.  Airborne radar and visual sightings by Venom interceptor.

    An RAF jet interceptor, a Venom single-seat subsonic
aircraft equipped with an air-intercept (AI) nose radar, was
scrambled, according to the basic Bluebook report, from
Waterbeach RAF Station, which is located about 6 miles north of
Cambridge, and some 20 miles SW of Lakenheath. Precise time of
the scramble does not appear in the report to Bluebook, but if
we were to try to infer the time from the non-com's recollective
account, it would seem to have been somewhere near midnight.
Both the non-com's letter and the contemporary intelligence
report make clear that Lakenheath radar had one of their
unidentified targets on-scope as the Venom came in over the
Station from Waterbeach. The TWX to Blue book states: "The
aircraft flew over RAF Station Lakenheath and was vectored
toward a target on radar 6 miles east of the field. Pilot
advised he had a bright white light in sight and would
investigate. At thirteen miles west (east?) he reported loss of
target and white light."

    It deserves emphasis that the foregoing quote clearly
indicates that the UFO that the Venom first tried to intercept
was being monitored via three distinct physical "sensing
channels." It was being recorded by _ground radar_, by _airborne
radar_, and _visually_. Many scientists are entirely unaware
that Air Force files contain such UFO cases; for this very
interesting category has never been stressed in USAF
discussions of its UFO records. Note, in fact, the similarity to
the 1957 RB-47 case (Case 1 above) in the evidently simultaneous
loss of visual and airborne-radar signal here. One wonders if
ground radar also lost it simultaneously with the Venom pilot's
losing it, but, loss of visual and airborne-radar signal here.
One wonders if ground radar also lost it simultaneously with the
Venom pilot's losing it, but, as is so typical of AFR200-2
reports, incomplete reporting precludes clarification. Nothing
in the Bluebook case-file on this incident suggests that anyone
at Bluebook took any trouble to run down that point or the many
other residual questions that are so painfully evident here. The
file does, however, include a lengthy dispatch from the
then-current Blue book officer, Capt. G. T. Gregory, a dispatch
that proposes a series of what I must term wholly irrelevant
hypotheses about Perseid meteors with "ionized gases in their
wake which may be traced on radarscopes", and inversions that
"may cause interference between two radar stations some distance
apart." Such basically irrelevant remarks are all too typical of
Bluebook critique over the years. The file also includes a case-
discussion by Dr. J. A. Hynek, Bluebook consultant, who also
toys with the idea of possible radar returns from meteor wake
ionization. Not only are the radar frequencies here about two
orders of magnitude too high to afford even marginal likelihood
of meteor-wake returns, but there is absolutely no kinematic
similarity between the reported UFO movements and the
essentially straight-line hypersonic movement of a meteor, to
cite just a few of the strong objections to any serious
consideration of meteor hypotheses for the present UFO case.
Hynek's memorandum on the case makes some suggestions about the
need for upgrading Bluebook operations, and then closes with
the remarks that "The Lakenheath report could constitute a
source of embarrassment to the Air Force; and should the facts,
as so far reported, get into the public domain, it is not
necessary to point out what excellent use the several dozen UFO
societies and other 'publicity artists' would make of such an
incident. It is, therefore, of great importance that further
information on the technical aspects of the original
observations be obtained, without loss of time from the
original observers." That memo of October 17, 1956,is followed
in the case-file by Capt. Gregory's November 26, 1956 reply, in
which he concludes that "our original analyses of anomalous
propagation and astronimical is (sic) more or less correct"; and
there the case investigation seemed to end, at the same casually
closed level at which hundreds of past UFO cases have been
closed out at Bluebook with essentially no real scientific
critique. I would say that it is exceedingly unfortunate that
"the facts , as so far reported" did not get into the public
domain, along with the facts on innumerable other Bluebook
case-files that should have long ago startled the scientific
community just as much as they startled me when I took the
trouble to go to Bluebook and spend a number of days studying
those astonishing files.

    Returning to the scientifically fascinating account of the
Venom pilot's attempt to make an air-intercept on the Lakenheath
unidentified object, the original report goes on to note that,
after the pilot lost both visual and radar signals, "RATCC
vectored him to a target 10 miles east of Lakenheath and pilot
advised target was on radar and he was 'locking on.'" Although
here we are given no information on the important point of
whether he also saw a luminous object, as he got a radar
lock-on, we definitely have another instance of at least
two-channel detection. The concurrent detection of a single
radar target by a ground radar and an airborne radar under
conditions such as these, where the target proves to be a highly
maneuverable object (see below), categorically rules out any
conventional explanations involving, say, large ground
structures and propagation anomalies. That MTI was being used on
the ground radar also excludes that, of course.

     The next thing that happened was that the Venom suddenly
lost radar lock- on as it neared the unknown target. RATCC
reported that "as the Venom passed the target on radar, the
target began a tail chase of the friendly fighter." RATCC asked
the Venom pilot to acknowledge this turn of events and he did,
saying "he would try to circle and get behind the target." His
attempts were unsuccessful, which the report to Bluebook
describes only in the terse comment, "Pilot advised he was
unable to 'shake' the target off his tail and requested
assistance." The non-com's letter is more detailed and much more
emphatic. He first remarks that the UFO's sudden evasive
movement into tail position was so swift that he missed it on
his own scope, "but it was seen by the other controllers." His
letter then goes on to note that the Venom pilot "tried
everything -- he climbed, dived, circled, etc., but the UFO
acted like it was glued right behind him, always the same
distance, very close, but we always had two distinct targets."
Here again, note how the basic report is annoyingly incomplete.
One is not told whether the pilot knew the UFO was pursuing his
Venom by virtue of some tail-radar warning device of type often
used on fighters (none is alluded to), or because he could see a
luminous object in pursuit. In order for him to "acknowledge"
the chase seems to require one or the other detection-mode, yet
the report fails to clarify this important point. However, the
available information does make quite clear that the pursuit was
being observed on ground radar, and the non-com's recollection
puts the duration of the pursuit at perhaps 10 minutes before
the pilot elected to return to his base. Very significantly, the
intelligence report from Lakenheath to Bluebook quotes this
first pilot as saying "clearest target I have ever seen on
radar", which again eliminates a number of hypotheses, and
argues most cogently the scientific significance of the whole
episode.

   The non-com recalled that, as the first Venom returned to
Waterbeach Aerodrome when fuel ran low, the UFO followed him a
short distance and then stopped; that important detail is,
however, not in the Bluebook report. A second Venom was then
scrambled, but, in the short time before a malfunction forced it
to return to Waterbeach, no intercepts were accomplished by that
second pilot.

7.  Discussion:

    The Bluebook report material indicates that other radar
unknowns were being observed at Lakenheath until about 0330Z.
Since the first radar unknowns appeared near Bentwaters at about
2130Z on 8/13/56, while the Lakenheath events terminated near
0330Z on 8/14/56, the total duration of this UFO episode was
about six hours. The case includes an impressive number of
scientifically provocative features:

     1)  At least three separate instances occurred in which one
     ground-radar unit, GCA Bentwaters, tracked some unidentified
     target for a number of tens of miles across its scope at
     speeds in excess of Mach 3. Since even today, 12 years
     later, no nation has disclosed military aircraft capable of
     flight at such speeds (we may exclude the X-15), and since
     that speed is much too low to fit any meteoric hypothesis,
     this first feature (entirely omitted from discussion in the
     Condon Report) is quite puzzling. However, Air Force UFO
     files and other sources contain many such instances of
     nearly hypersonic speeds of radar-tracked UFOs.

     2)  In one instance, about a dozen low-speed (order of 100
     mph) targets moved in loose formation led by three
     closely-spaced targets, the assemblage yielding consistent
     returns over a path of about 50 miles, after which they
     merged into a single large target, remained motionless for
     some 10-15 minutes, and then moved off-scope. Under the
     reported wind conditions, not even a highly contrived
     meteorological explanation invoking anomalous propagation
     and inversion layer waves would account for this sequence
     observed at Bentwaters. The Condon Report omits all
     discussion of items 1) and 2), for reasons that I find
     difficult to understand.

     3)  One of the fast-track radar sightings at Bentwaters,
     at 2255Z, coincided with visual observations of some
     very-high-speed luminous source seen by both a tower
     operator on the ground and by a pilot aloft who saw the
     light moving in a blur below his aircraft at 4000 ft
     altitude. The radar-derived speed "as given as 2000-4000
     mph. Again, meteors won't fit such speeds and altitudes,
     and we may exclude aircraft for several evident reasons,
     including absence of any thundering sonic boom that would
     surely have been reported if any near hypothetical secret
     1956-vintage hypersonic device were flying over Bentwaters
     at less than 4000 ft that night.

    4)   Several ground observers at Lakenheath saw luminous
     obJects exhibiting non-ballistic motions, including dead
     stops and sharp course reversals.

    5)   In one instance, two luminous white objects merged
     into a single object, as seen from the ground at
     Lakenheath. This wholly unmeteoric and unaeronautical
     phenomenon is actually a not-uncommon feature of UFO
     reports during the last two decades. For example,
     radar-tracked merging of two targets that veered together
     sharply before Joining up was reported over Kincheloe
     AFB, Michigan, in a UFO report that also appears in the
     Condon Report (p. 164), quite unreasonably attributed
     therein to "anomalous propagation."

    6)   Two separate ground radars at Lakenheath, having rather
     different radar parameters, were concurrently observing
     movements of one or more unknown targets over an extended
     period of time. Seemingly stationary hovering modes were
     repeatedly observed, and this despite use of MTI. Seemingly
     "instantaneous" accelerations from rest to speeds of order
     of Mach 1 were repeatedly observed. Such motions cannot
     readily be explained in terms of any known aircraft flying
     then or now, and also fail to fit known electronic or
     propagation anomalies. The Bluebook report gives the
     impression (somewhat ambiguously, however) that some of
     these two-radar observations were coincident with
     ground-visual observations.

    7)   In at least one instance, the Bluebook report makes
     clear that an unidentified luminous target was seen
     visually from the air by the pilot of an interceptor while
     getting simultaneous radar returns from the unknown with
     his nose radar concurrent with ground-radar detection of
     the same unknown. This is scientifically highly
     significant, for it entails three separate
     detection-channels all recording the unknown object.

    8)   In _at least_ one instance, there was simultaneous
     radar disappearance and visual disappearance of the UFO.
     This is akin to similar events in other known UFO cases,
     yet is not easily explained in terms of conventional
     phenomena.

    9)   Attempts of the interceptor to close on one target
     seen both on ground radar and on the interceptor's nose
     radar, led to a puzzling rapid interchange of roles as
     the unknown object moved into tail- position behind the
     interceptor. While under continuing radar observation
     from the ground, with both aircraft and unidentified
     object clearly displayed on the Lakenheath ground
     radars, the pilot of the interceptor tried
     unsuccessfully to break the tail chase over a time of
     some minutes. No ghost-return or multiple-scatter
     hypothesis can explain such an event.

     I believe that the cited sequence of extremely baffling
events, involving so many observers and so many distinct
observing channels, and exhibiting such unconventional features,
should have led to the most intensive Air Force inquiries. But I
would have to say precisely the same about dozens of other
inexplicable Air Force-related UFO incidents reported to
Bluebook since 1947. What the above illustrative case shows all
too well is that highly unusual events have been occurring under
circumstances where any organization with even passing
scientific curiosity should have responded vigorously, yet the
Air Force UFO program has repeatedly exhibited just as little
response as I have noted in the above 1956 Lakenheath incident.
The Air Force UFO program, contrary to the impression held by
most scientists here and abroad, has been an exceedingly
superficial and generally quite incompetent program. Repeated
suggestions from Air Force press offices, to the effect that
"the best scientific talents available to the U.S. Air Force"
have been brought to bear on the UFO question are so far from
the truth as to be almost laughable, yet those suggestions have
served to mislead the scientific community, here and abroad,
into thinking that careful investigations were yielding solid
conclusions to the effect that the UFO problem was a nonsense
problem. The Air Force has given us all the impression that its
UFO reports involved only misidentified phenomena of
conventional sorts. That, I submit, is far from correct, and the
Air Force has not responsibly discharged its obligations to the
public in conveying so gross a misimpression for twenty years. I
charge incompetence, not conspiracy, let me stress.

    The Condon Report, although disposed to suspicion that
perhaps some sort of anomalous radar propagation might be
involved (I record here my objection that the Condon Report
exhibits repeated instances of misunderstanding of the limits of
anomalous propagation effects), does concede that Lakenheath is
an unexplained case. Indeed, the Report ends its discussion with
the quite curious admission that, in the Lakenheath episode,
"...the probability that at least one genuine UFO was involved
appears to be fairly high."

    One could easily become enmeshed in a semantic dispute over
the meaning of the phrase, "one genuine UFO", so I shall simply
assert that my own position is that the Lakenheath case
exemplifies a disturbingly large group of UFO reports in which
the apparent degree of scientific inexplicability is so great
that, instead of being ignored and laughed at, those cases
should all along since 1947 have been drawing the attention of a
large body of the world's best scientists. Had the latter
occurred, we might now have some answers, some clues to the real
nature of the UFO phenomena. But 22 years of inadequate UFO
investigations have kept this stunning scientific problem out of
sight and under a very broad rug called Project Bluebook, whose
final termination on December 18, 1969 ought to mark the end of
an era and the start of a new one relative to the UFO problem.

    More specifically, with cases like Lakenheath and the 1957
RB-47 case and many others equally puzzling that are to be found
within the Condon Report, I contest Condon's principal
conclusion "that further extensive study of UFOs probably cannot
be justified in the expectation that science will be advanced
thereby." And I contest the endorsement of such a conclusion by
a panel of the National Academy of Sciences, an endorsement that
appears to be based upon essentially _zero_ independent
scientific cross-checking of case material in the Report.
Finally, I question the judgment of those Air Force scientific
offices and agencies that have accepted so weak a report. The
Lakenheath case is just one example of the basis upon which I
rest those objections. I am prepared to discuss many more
examples.

8. The Extraterrestrial Hypothesis:

    In this Lakenheath UFO episode, we have evidence of some
phenomena defying ready explanation in terms of present-day
science and technology, some phenomena that include enough
suggestion of intelligent control (tail-chase incident here), or
some broadly cybernetic equivalent thereof, that it is difficult
for me to see any reasonable alternative to the hypothesis that
something in the nature of extraterrestrial devices engaged-in
something in the nature of surveillance lies at the heart of the
UFO problem. That is the hypothesis that my own study of the UFO
problem leads me to regard as most probable in terms of my
present information. This is, like all scientific hypotheses, a
working hypothesis to be accepted or rejected only on the basis
of continuing investigation. Present evidence surely does not
amount to incontrovertible proof of the extraterrestrial
hypothesis. What I find scientifically dismaying is that, while
a large body of UFO evidence now seems to point in no other
direction than the extraterrestrial hypothesis, the profoundly
important implications of that possibility are going
unconsidered by the scientific community because this entire
problem has been imputed to be little more than a nonsense
matter unworthy of serious scientific attention. Those overtones
have been generated almost entirely by scientists and others who
have done essentially no real investigation of the problem-area
in which they express such strong opinions. Science is not
supposed to proceed in that manner, and this AAAS Symposium
should see an end to such approaches to the UFO problem.

    Put more briefly, doesn't a UFO case like Lakenheath warrant
more than a mere shrug of the shoulders from science?

Case 3.  Haneda Air Force Base, Japan, August 5-6, 1952.

Brief summary: USAF tower operators at Haneda AFB observed an
unusually bright bluish-white light to their NE, alerted the GCI
radar unit at Shiroi, which then called for a scramble of an F94
interceptor after getting radar returns in same general area.
GCI ground radar vectored the F94 to an orbiting unknown target,
which the F94 picked up on its airborne radar. The target then
accelerated out of the F94's radar range after 90 seconds of
pursuit that was followed also on the Shiroi GCI radar.

1.  Introduction:

    The visual and radar sightings at Haneda AFB, Japan, on
August 5-6, 1952, represent an example of a long-puzzling case,
still carried as an unidentified case by Project Bluebook, at my
latest check, and chosen for analysis in the Condon Report. In
the latter, is putatively explained in terms of a combination of
diffraction and mirage distortion of the star Capella, as far as
the visual parts are concerned, while the radar portions are
attributed to anomalous propagation. I find very serious
difficulties with those "explanations" and regard them as
typical of a number of rather casually advanced explanations of
long-standing UFO cases that appear in the Condon Report.
Because this case has been discussed in such books as those of
Ruppelt, Keyhoe, and Hall, it is of particular interest to
carefully examine case-details on it and then to examine the
basis of the Condon Report's explanation of it, as example of
how the Condon Report disposed of old "classic cases."

    Haneda AFB, active during the Korean War, lay about midway
between central Tokyo and central Yokohama, adjacent to Tokyo
International Airport. The 1952 UFO incident began with visual
sightings of a brilliant object in the northeastern sky, as seen
by two control tower operators going on duty at 2330 LST (all
times hereafter will be LST). It will serve brevity to introduce
some coded name designations for these men and for several
officers involved, since neither the Condon Report, nor my
copies of the original Bluebook case-file show names (excised
from latter copies in accordance with Bluebook practice on
non-release of witness names in UFO cases):

     Coded                  Identification
  Designation               --------------
  -----------

   Airman A       One of two Haneda tower operators who first
                   sighted light. Rank was A/3c.

   Airman B       Second Haneda tower operator to first sight
                   light. Rank was A/1c.

   Lt. A          Controller on duty at Shiroi GCI unit up to
                   2400, 8/5/52. Rank was 1st Lt.

   Lt. B          Controller at Shiroi after 0000, 8/6/52, also
                   1st Lt.

   Lt. P          Pilot of scrambled F94, also 1st Lt.

   Lt. R          Radar officer in F94, also 1st Lt.

    Shiroi GCI Station, manned by the 528th AC&W (Aircraft
Control and Warning) Group, lay approximately 20 miles NE of
Haneda (specifically at 35 deg. 49' N, 140 deg. 2' E) and had a
CPS-1 10-cm search radar plus a CPS 10- cm height-finding radar.
Two other USAF facilities figure in the incident, Tachikawa AFB,
lying just over 20 miles WNW of Haneda, and Johnson AFB, almost
30 miles NW of Waneda. The main radar incidents center over the
north extremity of Tokyo Bay, roughly midway from central Tokyo
to Chiba across the Bay.

    The Bluebook case-file on this incident contains 25 pages,
and since the incident predates promulgation of AFR200-2, the
strictures on time-reporting, etc., are not here so bothersome
as in the Lakenheath case of 1956, discussed above.
Nevertheless, the same kind of disturbing internal
inconsistencies are present here as one finds in most Bluebook
case reports; in particular, there is a bothersome variation in
times given for specific events in different portions of the
case-file. One of these, stressed in the Condon Report, will be
discussed explicitly below; but for the rest, I shall use those
times which appear to yield the greatest over-all internal
consistency. This will introduce no serious errors, since the
uncertainties are mostly only 1 or 2 minutes and, except for the
cited instance, do not alter any important implications
regardless of which cited time is used. The over-all duration of
the visual and radar sightings is about 50 minutes. The items of
main interest occurred between 2330 and 0020, approximately.

    Although this case involves both visual and radar
observations of unidentified objects, careful examination does
not support the view that the same object was ever assuredly
seen visually and on radar at the same time, with the possible
exception of the very first radar detection just after 2330.
Thus it is not a "radar-visual" case, in the more significant
sense of concurrent two-channel observations of an unknown
object. This point will be discussed further in Section 5.

2.  Visual Observations:

    a.   First visual detection.

At 2330, Airmen A and B, while walking across the ramp at Haneda
AFB to go on the midnight shift at the airfield control tower,
noticed an "exceptionally bright light" in their northeastern
sky. They went immediately to the control tower to alert two
other on-duty controllers to it and to examine it more carefully
with the aid of the 7x50 binoculars available in the tower. The
Bluebook case-file notes that the two controllers already on
tower-duty "had not previously noticed it because the operating
load had been keeping their attention elsewhere. "

b.   Independent visual detection at Tachikawa AFB.

About ten minutes later, according to the August 12, 1952, Air
Intelligence Information Report (IR-35-52) in the Bluebook
case-file; Haneda was queried about an unusually bright light by
controllers at Tachikawa AFB, 21 miles to their WNW. IR-35-52
states: "The control tower at Tachikawa Air Force Base called
Haneda tower at approximately 2350 to bring their attention to a
brilliant white light over Tokyo Bay. The tower replied that it
had been in view for some time and that it was being checked."

This feature of the report is significant in two respects: 1) It
indicates that the luminous source was of sufficiently unusual
brilliance to cause two separate groups of Air Force controllers
at two airfields to respond independently and to take
alert-actions; and 2) More significantly, the fact that the
Tachikawa controllers saw the source in a direction "over Tokyo
Bay" implies a line-of-sight distinctly south of east. From
Tachikawa, even the north end of the Bay lies to the ESE. Thus
the intersection of the two lines of sight fell somewhere in the
northern half of the Bay, it would appear. As will be seen
later, this is where the most significant parts of the radar
tracking occurred subsequently.

c. Direction, intensity, and configuration of the luminous
source.

IR-35-52 contains a signed statement by Air man A, a sketch of
the way the luminous source looked through 7-power binoculars,
and summary comments by Capt. Charle"s J. Malven, the FEAF
intelligence officer preparing the report for transmission to
Bluebook.

Airman A's own statement gives the bearing of the source as NNE;
Malven summary specifies only NE. Presumably the witness'
statement is the more reliable, and it also seems to be given a
greater degree of precision, whence a line-of-sight azimuth
somewhere in the range of 25 to 35 deg. east of north appears to
be involved in the Haneda sightings. By contrast, the Tachikawa
sighting-azimuth was in excess of 90 deg. from north, and
probably beyond 100 deg., considering the geography involved, a
point I shall return to later.

Several different items in the report indicate the high
_intensity_ of the source. Airman A's signed statement refers to
it as "the intense bright light over the Bay." The annotated
sketch speaks of "constant brilliance across the entire area" of
the (extended) source, and remarks on "the blinding effect from
the brilliant light." Malven's summary even points out that
"Observers stated that their eyes would fatigue rapidly when
they attempted to concentrate their vision on the object," and
elsewhere speaks of "the brilliant blue-white light of the
object." Most of these indications of brightness are omitted
from the Condon Report, yet bear on the Capella hypothesis in
terms of which that Report seeks to dispose of these visual
sightings.

Airman A's filed statement includes the remark that "I know it
wasn't a star, weather balloon or venus, because I compared it
with all three." This calls for two comments. First, Venus is
referred to elsewhere in the case-file, but this is certainly a
matter of confusion, inasmuch as Venus had set that night before
about 2000 LST. Since elsewhere in the report reference is made
to Venus lying in the East, and since the only noticeable
celestial object in that sector at that time would have been
Jupiter, I would infer that where "Venus" is cited in the
case-file, one should read "Jupiter." Jupiter would have risen
near 2300, almost due east, with apparent magnitude -2.0. Thus
Airman A's assertion that the object was brighter than "Venus"
may probably be taken to imply something of the order of
magnitude -3.0 or brighter. Indeed, since it is most unlikely
that any observer would speak of a -3.0 magnitude source as
"blinding" or "fatiguing" to look at, I would suggest that the
actual luminosity, at its periods of peak value (see below) must
have exceeded even magnitude -3 by a substantial margin.

Airman A's allusion to the intensity as compared with a "weather
balloon" refers to the comparisons (elaborated below) with the
light suspended from a pilot balloon released near the tower at
2400 that night and observed by the tower controllers to scale
the size and brightness. This is a very fortunate scaling
comparison, because the small battery-operated lights long used
in meteorological practice have a known luminosity of about 1.5
candle. Since a 1-candle source at 1 kilometer yields apparent
magnitude 0.8, inverse-square scaling for the here known balloon
distance of 2000 feet (see below) implies an apparent magnitude
of about -0.5 for the balloon-light as viewed at time of launch.
Capt. Malven's summary states, in discussing this quite helpful
comparison, "The balloon's light was described as extremely dim
and yellow, when compared to the brilliant blue white light of
the object." Here again, I believe one can safely infer an
apparent luminosity of the object well beyond Jupiter's -2.0.
Thus, we have here a number of compatible indications of
apparent brightness well beyond that of any star, which will
later be seen to contradict explanations proposed in the Condon
Report for the visual portions of the Haneda sightings.

Of further interest relative to any stellar source hypothesis
are the descriptions of the _configuration_ of the object as
seen with 7-power binoculars from the Haneda tower, and its
approximate _angular diameter_. Fortunately, the latter seems to
have been adjudged in direct comparison with an object of
determinate angular subtense that was in view in the middle of
the roughly 50-minute sighting. At 2400, a small weather balloon
was released from a point at a known distance of 2000 ft from
the control tower. Its diameter at release was approximately 24
inches. (IR-35-52 refers to it as a "ceiling balloon", but the
cloud-cover data contained therein is such that no ceiling
balloon would have been called for. Furthermore, the specified
balloon mass, 30 grams, and diameter, 2 ft, are precisely those
of a standard pilot balloon for upper-wind measurement. And
finally, the time [2400 LST = 1500Z] was the standard time for a
pilot balloon run, back in that period.) A balloon of 2-ft
diameter at 2000-ft range would subtend 1 milliradian, or just
over 3 minutes of arc, and this was used by the tower observers
to scale the apparent angular subtense of the luminous source.
As IR-35-52 puts it: "Three of the operators indicated the size
of the light, when closest to the tower, was approximately the
same as the small ceiling balloons (30 grams, appearing 24
inches in diameter) when launched from the weather station,
located at about 2000 ft from the tower. This would make the
size of the central light about 50 ft in diameter, when at the
10 miles distance tracked by GCI.... A lighted weather balloon
was launched at 2400 hours..." Thus, it would appear that an
apparent angular subtense close to 3 minutes of arc is a
reasonably reliable estimate for the light as seen by naked eye
from Haneda. This is almost twice the average resolution-limit
of the human eye, quite large enough to match the reported
impressions that it had discernible extent, i.e., was not merely
a point source.

But the latter is very much more clearly spelled out, in any
event, for IR-35-52 gives a fairly detailed description of the
object's appearance through 7-power binoculars. It is to be
noted that, if the naked-eye diameter were about 3 minutes, its
apparent subtense when viewed through 7X-binoculars would be
about 20 minutes, or two-thirds the naked-eye angular diameter
of the full moon -- quite large enough to permit recognition of
the finer details cited in IR-35-52, as follows: "The light was
described as circular in shape, with brilliance appearing to be
constant across the face. The light appeared to be a portion of
a large round dark shape which was about four times the diameter
of the light. When the object was close enough for details to be
seen, a smaller, less brilliant light could be seen at the lower
left hand edge, with two or three more dim lights running in a
curved line along the rest of the lower edge of the dark shape.
Only the lower portion of the darker shape could be determined,
due to the lighter sky which was believed to have blended with
the upper side of the object. No rotation was noticed. No sound
was heard."

Keeping in mind that those details are, in effect, described for
an image corresponding in apparent angular size to over half a
lunar diameter, the detail is by no means beyond the
undiscernible limit. The sketch included with IR-35-52 matches
the foregoing description, indicating a central disc of
"constant brilliance across entire area (not due to a point
source of light)", an annular dark area of overall diameter 3-4
times that of the central luminary, and having four distinct
lights on the lower periphery, "light at lower left, small and
fairly bright, other lights dimmer and possibly smaller."
Finally, supportive comment thereon is contained in the signed
statement of Airman A. He comments: "After we got in the tower I
started looking at it with binoculars, which made the object
much clearer. Around the bright white light in the middle, there
was a darker object which stood out against the sky, having
little white lights along the outer edge, and a glare around the
whole thing."

All of these configurational details, like the indications of a
quite un- starlike brilliance, will be seen below to be almost
entirely unexplainable on the Capella hypothesis with which the
Condon Report seeks to settle the Haneda visual sightings.
Further questions ultimately arise from examination of reported
apparent motions of the luminous source, which will be
considered next.

d.   Reported descriptions of apparent motions of the luminous
source.

Here we meet the single most important ambiguity in the Haneda
case-file, though the weight of the evidence indicates that the
luminous object exhibited definite movements. The ambiguity
arises chiefly from the way Capt. Malven summarized the matter
in his IR-35-52 report a week after the incident; "The object
faded twice to the East, then returned. Observers were uncertain
whether disappearance was due to a dimming of the lights,
rotation of object, or to the object moving away at terrific
speed, since at times of fading the object was difficult to
follow closely, except as a small light. Observers did agree
that when close, the object did appear to move horizontally,
varying apparent position and speed slightly." Aside from the
closing comment, all of Malven's summary remarks could be





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   Jul > Jul 12

               Re: 'Atlanta Journal-Constitution' Questionaire

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 19:18:01 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 22:38:18 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Atlanta Journal-Constitution' Questionaire


>Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 11:15:12 -0700
>From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Public Opinion

>This morning's (Saturday) Atlanta Journal-Constitution has
>printed a half page of comments responding to their question on
>their web page:
>
>http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/talk

>"What do you think about UFOs?"

>Below are some exerpts which I found interesting:

<snip>

>Thomas Olin Sneed, College Park writes:

>In 1951 on Yontan Mountain, Okinawa, my crew and I clocked a UFO
>traveling at 2,500 mph from the north of our area to the south,
>and then back north again.

>Shortly after this sighting, some officers I had never seen
>showed up and questioned each crew member not only about what we
>had seen on the radar screen, but also about our education and
>experience as a radar operator.

>We were all sworn to secrecy and told we would be courtmartialed
>if we discussed this matter with anyone else. This was before we
>had aircraft capable of these speeds.

><I guess he is not so worried about that threat now. -tb>

<snip>

Terry:

Is there possibly some way to reach Thomas Olin Sneed through
the Atlanta Journal-Constitution? Some more details would be
most welcome on this (possibly) unpublished radar sighting.

For 03 OCT 1951 I have a radar sighting from Kadena AFB (USAF)
at 2230 hrs local time. Two radar operators saw a large sausage
shaped blip, and tracked it at 4800 mph.

This and similar come from Don Berliner's study The Bluebook
Unknowns.

It might be the same case except for the speed and details of
location. Of course the Yontan Mtn radar site could be part of
the base facilities.

Best wishes

-Larry Hatch







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                       UFO*BC - Wilbert Smith Lecture

From: Bill Oliver <boliver@direct.ca>
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 20:40:27 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 00:24:02 -0400
Subject: UFO*BC - Wilbert Smith Lecture

We have just posted a transcript of Wilbert Smiths lecture in Ottawa,
March 31, 1958.

Don't miss this rare gem! We will keep you posted as we add more
from Mr.Smith to our site. Check it out at

http://www.ufobc.org







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                          UFO*BC - Latest Sighting

From: Bill Oliver <boliver@direct.ca>
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 21:37:37 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 00:44:49 -0400
Subject: UFO*BC - Latest Sighting


Latest BC Sighting .... For more:

http://www.ufobc.org

7-Jul-98, Langley, (10:30 pm)

A boy and his grandmother were going to a neighbours, near 222
Street and 48th Avenue, when the lad noticed a bright white
light in the western sky.

The light, about the size of a dime at arm's length, was at
about thirty degrees or just above the roofline of the nearby
houses.

Upon observation it was now apparent the light was part of a
definite structure, triangular and a "hot orange colour" with
the round white light placed at the flat end of the triangle. It
moved in a downward fashion to the northwest and came to a halt.

On reaching the neighbours the woman turned around to see the
light one more time before going in. It was at this point that
the light simply turned off.

The boy had walked the entire distance backwards in orded not to
miss a thing.

Both said a plane as close as the object appeared to be would
have been heard, but there was only silence.

----------------------------------------------------------------









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                      Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

From: RobIrving@aol.com
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 23:04:53 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 00:40:36 -0400
Subject: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'


>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'
>Date: Fri, 10 Jul 98 11:56:02 PDT

Jerry,

>I thought we were talking about is Festinger's involvement in
>the study of prophetic saucer groups. I have little interest in
>Festinger beyond When Prophecy Fails, not only because it deals
>with a subject of concern to me but also because I have a good
>friend who's a scholar in this area, and who told me long ago
>that Festinger's ideas have been challenged.

There's a problem with your characterisation. As far as I am
aware, Festinger never conducted any "study of prophetic saucer
groups". When Prophesy Fails was derived from a much more
complex idea. If you were to describe the work that simply in
print I'd be appalled.

>My impression all along has been that you are using Festinger
>simply as a stick with which to beat all who are interested in
>UFOs, and I do not recall your even responding to my complaint
>that you lump everybody together. So let me try one more time:

I gave it the attention it deserved.

>See my words immediately above. In any event, I don't see any
>lessons for, or parallels to, ufology in Festinger's book, which
>isn't about ufology at all. It's about a saucerian group
>oriented toward the contactee message and occult doctrine. The
>fact that you seem to think this is the same as ufology only
>confirms, alas, my suspicions about your approach.

You use the word 'fact' all too loosely, Jerry. In fact your
impression is quite wrong, of both WPF (did you read the
introduction?) and me.

Rob





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                             Re: Sturrock Panel

From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 23:58:50 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 01:04:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Sturrock Panel

Regarding...

>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Sturrock Panel
>Date: Sun, 05 Jul 98 09:54:18 PDT

Jerry wrote:

>The Sturrock panel got to listen to some of the best evidence from
>some of the best UFO investigators and researchers alive today.

As you appreciate, that's a subjective opinion, especially on
what constitutes 'best evidence'.

However, if this was a 'best shot', isn't it a damning
indictment of the 'extraterrestrial hypothesis' when Prof.
Sturrock writes:

"Concerning the case material presented by the investigators,
the panel concluded that a few reported incidents may have
involved rare but significant phenomena such as electrical
activity, but there was no convincing evidence pointing to
unknown physical processes or to the involvement of
extraterrestrial intelligence".


>It came, it seems to me, to the only conclusion possible, one that
>we ufologists have known for a long time: UFO reports deserve to be
>investigated further, and attempts to explain them away have failed.

To reiterate, the panel agreed that a few incidents may involve
known 'electrical phenomena', whilst others could not be
explained 'in this fashion'.

You seem to be implying that the natural 'failure' to resolve
every single claimed anomalous sighting or incident, is itself
almost tantamount to proof these can not be explained as
anything other than evidence of an extraterrestrial contact.

Would you disagree that the voluminous evidence which _has_ been
explained, whether as misidentifications, hoaxes, proven
unreliable, inaccurate, exaggerated or untrue testimonies, etc.,
indicates the probability of comparative explanations where none
has been proven?


>It seems to me what we saw is scientific SOP. It looked at the
>evidence, as other judging panels do in other areas, and decided that
>thorough scientific study is desirable.

The 'Sturrock panel' was of course no more than a workshop,
however, it has been reported as a 'scientific study', for
example, here in the UK, the BBC featured the story and claimed:

'UFOs mystify scientists'

"The first independent scientific study of UFO sightings in
almost 30 years has concluded that some cases merit further
investigation".


>>What exactly are you hoping for?

>A thorough scientific study or, better, a whole bunch of 'em.
>Aren't you?

Can't say I had considered it ever being a realistic possibility
and I doubt the 'Sturrock panel' will prove to be even a
tentative step towards that.

You didn't respond to a question I asked, i.e., should a
'thorough scientific study' include, say, research into...

'abductions by aliens'
'alien implants'
'crop circles'
the 'Gulf Breeze' photographs
the 'alien autopsy' footage
'cattle mutilations'
various anomalies caught on film during Space Shuttle missions
the 'face on Mars'

Etc...

These contentious issues and similar are, after all, the essence
of 'ufology'.

They feature evidence which can, and in many circumstances has,
been subjected to a scientific study. However, would
'mainstream' science see any one of these subjects as meriting a
more thorough, ongoing program of scientific research?

Or would the very idea that time and funds be allocated to them
be an anathema to most scientists, if not provoking outrage.

The answer has been evident.


So, where do you see the data coming from that would change this
perception and be deemed worthy of those 'whole bunch' of
scientific studies?

What case evidence would you like to see mainstream scientists,
of which the 'Sturrock panel' appears to have been a
particularly fair representation, evaluate?

Bearing in mind of course, that the purported 'best cases' which
that panel considered and which you believe to be "some of the
best evidence", was determined to offer "no convincing evidence
pointing to unknown physical processes or to the involvement of
extraterrestrial intelligence".


I asked Prof. Sturrock if he would clarify some points which
have come up in recent discussions and he explained that the
workshop was his suggestion when discussing the "UFO problem"
with "Mr Rockefeller".

The panel, whose summary was unanimous, were selected by Prof.
Sturrock, some of the panel members being known to him and some
being recommended by other scientists.

Prof. Sturrock comments, "I was looking for scientists who are
open minded but tough minded. I did not want anyone gullible,
and none of them is gullible".

From my own research, it seems that the panel members were a
highly significant body of respected scientists, hardly gullible
and with particular expertise in a number of relevant areas.

For example, Prof. James Papike, director of the Institute of
Meteoritics at the University of New Mexico, has been
instrumental in research which challenges the meteorite evidence
for 'life on Mars' and Prof. Charles Tolbert, a renowned
astronomer, has been critical of the "Evidence for
Extraterrestrial Life".

There's further relevant background which I'll mention in due
course.


James.
E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com





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                A Note On My Recent Hospitalization - By Budd

From: Budd Hopkins via John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 01:45:40 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 02:03:27 -0400
Subject: A Note On My Recent Hospitalization - By Budd

 A Note On My Recent Hospitalization - By Budd Hopkins

A heart attack is not fun, even though one survives it, as I
did, relatively undamaged. The physical pain I felt last March
was beyond anything I'd ever experienced. When I awoke in the
middle of the night I had no doubt what was happening to me, so
about 3:00 A.M. I asked Carol, my wife, to call 911. The pain
became worse as the interminable minutes passed. Then, laying
dazed and waiting for help to arrive, I smelled the
unmistakeable odor of a burning building and the sounds of
unfamiliar - ominous - movement. There must be yet another
emergency: my house must also have caught fire.

When I opened my eves - an act which took real effort - four
bulky firemen were standing in my bedroom, but instead of hoses
and axes they had brought with them a variety of medical
equipment. These men. from the fire station only four blocks
away, were obviously the first-response team for 911, and since
they were wearing their boots and rubber coats, the smoke from
their last blaze accompanied them into my bedroom. It was a
small consolation, but I was only having a heart attack and not
a fire.

These men were amazingly gentle and efficient with me. One found
a vein in my arm and installed an IV with practiced ease while
another fed me oxygen. Then the four of them moved me onto a
portable gurney. Though the cold plastic odor of the oxygen-
mask mingled unpleasantly with the smell of smoke and the aroma
of firemen's rubber, I didn't care; all I really wanted was for
the pain to stop.

The ER staff at St. Vincent's hospital was both extremely
efficient and caring. I spent a bit less than three days in the
ICU, and after an angioplasty I was released with the assurance
that I had suffered negligible damage to the heart muscle.
Recuperation took longer than expected because I somehow
contracted bronchitis, perhaps at the hospital. Now, however I
feel like my normal self and my life is back to its usual busy
pace.

My central reason for sharing this somewhat lugubrious account
of my heart attack has to do, really, with its aftermath. I was
astonished and immensely grateful to receive so many cards and
letters wishing me a speedy recovery. Most of you who wished me
well are not personal friends, which makes your caring even more
touching. In addition to the scores of individual letters and
get-well cards, I also received a number of notes from MUFON
chapters, from organizations like the Fund for UFO Research and
from other independent research groups, in which many individual
members signed their own cheerful messages on the crowded pages.

There is no way for me to adequately show my appreciation for
your kindness. The best I can do is to thank you here, in these
paragraphs. As I'm sure you're aware, there are many times when,
inevitably, those of us who have spent so many years in this
work feel depressed and discouraged. But the response I received
from you over the past two months has lifted my spirits
enormously. I thank you again from the bottom of my now fully
mended heart

Budd Hopkins
May, 1998







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                         Re: UK Meteor Blast Mystery

From: jonathan pressburger <jonpress@netcomuk.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:53:21 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 08:56:41 -0400
Subject: Re: UK Meteor Blast Mystery


> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 20:59:10 -0400
> From: Robert Moore <ENGIMA9@compuserve.com>
> Subject: UK Meteor Blast Mystery
> To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net>,

> Dear All,


> In regards to these various meteor events, I am beginning to
> think that something significant has been happening over the
> present couple of months.

> Has anyone noticed that there's been _two_ major meteor -display
> events in as many months! (i.e those sufficiently noticable
> enough to spark off England-wide "UFO" scares).

<snip>

Dear Robert,

Having read the latest new Hancock book, 'The Mars Mystery' I am
much concerned by the increased activity.  See also the recent
post on this list about the November stream!

You can ignore the "Face" stuff in the above book as not really
relevant, but the Comet stuff is.  See also the classic
Velikovsky work, "Worlds in Collision" which started a lot of all
this off.

Please let me know what you think.

It all ties in with the apocalyptic stuff, too.  I don't want to
be too Millenialist, though, but I'm watching out--note also
Cayce!

best wishes jonathan pressburger
BSc (MRI engineer) and hopefully not a kook.





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                Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 28 & Orbit

From: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 07:22:21 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:11:58 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 28 & Orbit

Hi, List Members!

I just got the warning below from a UFO Roundup correspondent in
France.

Also, if anyone has information about the recent UFO sightings in
Yakima, Washington, please email me at Masinaigan@aol.com.

Many thanks!

Joe Trainor

-----

From: RFischer54@aol.com
To: Masinaigan@aol.com
Subject: UFO Roundup
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 05:47:36 EDT

Hello Joe !

Following the destruction of the Orbit Website, I would ask you I
have all your bulletins ( except Nr 1 : abducted ! ) in the HTLM
format on my computer. If you need a backup of anyone, please ask
me.

Another information about viruses : a new one - I don't know is
name - may be download when looking for sites about the Football
World Cup. It will operate on July, 12th, destroying all the
datas in the computers !

Bye !

Robert.





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                         Re: UK Meteor Blast Mystery

From: Werner Walter <113236.1604@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 06:14:32 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:02:15 -0400
Subject: Re: UK Meteor Blast Mystery

Hi List,

I can=B4t believe that this last phenoman was a simple breaking
up-fireball-bolide (and can=B4t also not believe thats was a real UFO). Or
has anyone hearing once again from a "trace on the night-sky" like a letter
"Z" or like a "Q" which lasted 45 minutes?

Much more it is likley to thing that a re-entry-phenomena has
produced this light-show and rocket-fluit was guilty by this
event high up in the atmosphere and the last sunlight has
illuminated the fluit up the the sky.

In May 1994 we has a very similar phenomena here high up in
central-europe in which the rocket-fluit has formed a letter "V".
You can see a picture of it on my homepage
http://www.alien.de/cenap and if you push the
"UFO-Hotline"-headline the picture will built up for a view of
it.

Has anyone researched in this direction by space controll-agencys
like US Space Command or ESOC?

Werner






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                             Re: Sturrock Panel

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 08:57:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:34:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Sturrock Panel

>Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 23:58:50 -0400
>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Sturrock Panel
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>Regarding...

>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Sturrock Panel
>>Date: Sun, 05 Jul 98 09:54:18 PDT

>Jerry wrote:

>>The Sturrock panel got to listen to some of the best evidence from
>>some of the best UFO investigators and researchers alive today.

>As you appreciate, that's a subjective opinion, especially on
>what constitutes 'best evidence'.

>However, if this was a 'best shot', isn't it a damning
>indictment of the 'extraterrestrial hypothesis' when Prof.
>Sturrock writes:

>"Concerning the case material presented by the investigators,
>the panel concluded that a few reported incidents may have
>involved rare but significant phenomena such as electrical
>activity, but there was no convincing evidence pointing to
>unknown physical processes or to the involvement of
>extraterrestrial intelligence".

<snip>

>To reiterate, the panel agreed that a few incidents may involve
>known 'electrical phenomena', whilst others could not be
>explained 'in this fashion'.

>You seem to be implying that the natural 'failure' to resolve
>every single claimed anomalous sighting or incident, is itself
>almost tantamount to proof these can not be explained as
>anything other than evidence of an extraterrestrial contact.

>Would you disagree that the voluminous evidence which _has_ been
>explained, whether as misidentifications, hoaxes, proven
>unreliable, inaccurate, exaggerated or untrue testimonies, etc.,
>indicates the probability of comparative explanations where none
>has been proven?

James-

The statement you make in that last paragraph is (IMHO)
accurate, but perhaps overstated. You appear to have used
different words to describe the same circumstance, which perhaps
shows a bias in the statement..... <g> But that's okay, since I
think most of us come to this debate with an agenda that we
often try to ignore and sometimes deny (no implicatioin
intended).

I would certainly agree, and I think that most others would as
well, that a vast majority of the UFO sightings that have been
investigated have been explained as natural phenomemna, or as
misidentifications of know objects. I would include in that last
grouping the "hoaxes" and "untrue testimonies" you mentioned
because that requires an interpretation of motive.

>The 'Sturrock panel' was of course no more than a workshop,
>however, it has been reported as a 'scientific study', for
>example, here in the UK, the BBC featured the story and claimed:

>'UFOs mystify scientists'

>"The first independent scientific study of UFO sightings in
>almost 30 years has concluded that some cases merit further
>investigation".

Your comment and the BBC statement are both accurate. But, it's
significant in that this is the first panel of scientists to
review the evidence at all to determine if there is indeed any
need for further investigation, and they found that there was.
Your emphasis of the "rare electrical phenomenon" is interesting
as a possible explanation for some of the reports, but that
merely underscores how much we have to learn and I sense some
reluctance in allowing the ETI explanation to be included among
the "possibles" for those that remain.

>>>What exactly are you hoping for?

>>A thorough scientific study or, better, a whole bunch of 'em.
>>Aren't you?

>Can't say I had considered it ever being a realistic possibility
>and I doubt the 'Sturrock panel' will prove to be even a
>tentative step towards that.

I would have to disagree. I think it is a positive step in the
right direction, but only a limited one. The impact so far as
been a positive reaction by many in the media that had given the
subject scant recognition for many years. The Science Editor for
the Washington Post wrote a very good article on the group's
findings, and similar stories were carried in many other major
papers throughout the US. I'm not expecting any great
investigative follow-up at this point, but a group of scientists
took a position that there are phenomena being reported for
which we have no known explanation, and major media outlets were
willing to report that fact. I find this significant.

>You didn't respond to a question I asked, i.e., should a
>'thorough scientific study' include, say, research into...

>'abductions by aliens'
>'alien implants'
>'crop circles'
>the 'Gulf Breeze' photographs
>the 'alien autopsy' footage
>'cattle mutilations'
>various anomalies caught on film during Space Shuttle missions
>the 'face on Mars'

>Etc...

>These contentious issues and similar are, after all, the essence
>of 'ufology'.

>They feature evidence which can, and in many circumstances has,
>been subjected to a scientific study. However, would
>'mainstream' science see any one of these subjects as meriting a
>more thorough, ongoing program of scientific research?

>Or would the very idea that time and funds be allocated to them
>be an anathema to most scientists, if not provoking outrage.

>The answer has been evident.


Yes it has, and I'm not sure that the "Sturrock" report will
change human nature in regard to the need for funding to pay for
such research. Many of the items you listed have been
investigated by a number of scientists, and the results have
been at times controversial. Since most research is being
performed for the purpose of defense or economic gain, there is
little funding left over for what many would consider to be a
"fringe" science. Those using known bureaucratic methods will
freely utilize descriptive words and phrases to ridecule those
who would suggest that such research be undertaken. Again, the
general public may be able to help if they encourage such
research, which could be facilitated through the media coverage,
but that is not yet a factor.

>So, where do you see the data coming from that would change this
>perception and be deemed worthy of those 'whole bunch' of
>scientific studies?

>What case evidence would you like to see mainstream scientists,
>of which the 'Sturrock panel' appears to have been a
>particularly fair representation, evaluate?

>Bearing in mind of course, that the purported 'best cases' which
>that panel considered and which you believe to be "some of the
>best evidence", was determined to offer "no convincing evidence
>pointing to unknown physical processes or to the involvement of
>extraterrestrial intelligence".

This was discussed among several researchers last weekend, and
the question was raised as to where such information could be
submitted. To be honest, I think that you'll see quite a bit of
information submitted to any panel that sets itself of as a
repository for the purpose of evaluation and investigation into
such "unknowns". The information you see on the Internet
regarding this genre is not representative of the vast amount of
data and research that has been underway for the past 50 years,
and there are numerous projects underway in the background that
you rarely hear about to collect and correlate the data.

Let's face it. If there was a "Best Case" that proved anything
beyond a shadow of doubt, the debate would be all over and we
could go on to the next controversy. However, every "best case"
I have seen has proven to be inconclusive in some way. Since
much of the evidence is anecdotal, that often gives both sides
in this debate a lot of room for discussion, but that isn't the
case with many "Trace Case" and "Radar Case" investigations. I
haven't seen the full "Sturrock" panel's report, so I'm not sure
what cases they were shown.

But, IMHO, there will be no shortage of good material for a
scientific inquiry, and the SSE's report will help to reduce the
"giggle" factor that has so often been a problem.

Steve Kaeser







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   Jul > Jul 13

                           HOT GOSSIP UK - July 98

From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:23:29 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:27:32 -0400
Subject: HOT GOSSIP UK - July 98

Hot Gossip UK Magazine JULY
www.hotgossip.co.uk

The Unexplained Section
http://www.camelot-group.com/hotgossip/unexgoss.html
Edited by Georgina Bruni
===============================================
An Interview with Nick Redfern
An Interview with David Morehouse
_______________________________________________

This month I�ve had a little help from other researchers. I�d
like to thank President of the Staffordshire UFO Group, Irene
Bott, for contributing the interview with Nick Redfern. I�d
also like to thank researcher Richard Conway for his
contribution of the interview with David Morehouse.
________________________________________________

PHOTO OF NICK REDFERN available at
http://www.camelot-group.com/hotgossip/unexgoss.html

Nick Redfern is the author of COVERT AGENDA and THE F.B.I.
FILES. I�ll be reviewing Nick�s book in another issue of Hot
Gossip UK, but suffice to say for now - that I�ve really enjoyed
reading both his publications and I highly recommend them.

THE NICK REDFERN INTERVIEW - Interviewer Irene Bott.

IB: Nick, I am sure many people interested in the UFO subject
will be aware that in TV�s THE X FILES, Mulder and Scully
investigate FOs and paranormal phenomena for the FBI. Are you
saying in your book that THE X FILES is not entirely fiction?

NR: Yes, absolutely. The situation is this: the FBI have
declassified approximately 3,000 pages of previously - withheld
files on UFOs and associated mysteries which cover the period
1947 to the early 1990s. More importantly, many of the real
FBI�s UFO files reflect to quite an astonishing degree the sorts
of things discussed in THE X FILES.

IB: What do you mean by that?

NR: Well, perhaps I should start at the beginning. In 1947, when
sightings of UFOs - or flying discs and flying saucers, as they
were known at the time -began to be reported in large numbers
throughout the USA, the military approached the FBI with a view
to obtaining their assistance in both interviewing UFO witnesses
to try and determine if the people were genuine, mentally
disturbed, or trying to put over propaganda, and investigating
UFO sightings in general. The FBI weren�t adverse to this;
however, the boss of the FBI, J. Edgar Hoover, would only agree
to get involved if it was on a level which would put the FBI on
an equal footing with the military when it came to investigating
and collating UFO data.

IB: What do the FBI�s early UFO files tell us?

NR: OK. It�s clear from the FBI�s files of mid 1947, that within
the FBI itself there were as many differing opinions regarding
the origins of the UFO mystery as there are amongst the civilian
UFO research community today! To give you an example, there was
a great deal of concern within the FBI that UFOs were possibly
the product of the Soviet Union, being based on classified
technology captured from the Nazis at the end of the Second
World War. Similarly, there were those FBI agents who suspected
that the U.S. military itself was responsible for the Saucers,
and this was some type of super - secret American Government
project. And, of course, there were those in the FBI who
favoured the alien theory - that we were being visited by
creatures form other worlds.

IB: Can you give a few examples of the early reports which the
FBI received?

NR: Sure. One such report concerned an employee of the military
who, in July 1947, had seen overflying a particular air base
three UFOs travelling at an impressive speed; more impressive,
however, was the fact that the UFOs were circular in shape and
one of them seemed to be �rolling� or �rotating� in the sky as
it went along. Similarly, in the following month, the FBI picked
up on an incident involving a former Army Air Corps pilot who
reported seeing - and I�ll quote from the official report here -
�a bluish white, flaming object over Philadelphia. And this is
something reflected in many of the early reports which the FBI
received. Most of the witnesses were highly qualified people. To
give you a further example, also in August 1947, no less than
twelve UFOs were seen flying in formation over Twin Falls,
Idaho, and once again there were credible observers, including
serving police officers with the Twin Fall Police Department.
More importantly, the witnesses were practically unanimous in
their belief that what they saw were - again, to quote the
official FBI files - �illuminated flying saucers�. So these are
the types of reports which the FBI received in the late 1940�s
and which led them to believe that something real and very
strange was taking place.

IB: Can you give us a few examples of the sorts of reports and
investigations which the FBI found itself involved in during the
1950�s?

NR: Yeah. There were several UFO events which concerned and took
up some considerable time on the part of the FBI in the 1950�s.

From the late 40's through to the early 50's, the FBI was
heavily implicated in something called Project Twinkle - a
project designed to monitor and identify strange, green fireball
- type objects which were being repeatedly seen in the vicinity
of U.S. atomic energy installations in New Mexico, and at a
later date in other parts of the country. Interestingly enough,
official FBI papers detail a number of soundly argued reasons
why the fireballs weren't natural phenomena; and in my book I
speculate that this was possibly an attempt on the part of the
UFO intelligence to monitor our early atomic energy research.

What else was the FBI involved in apart from Project Twinkle in
the 1950's?

NR:All sorts of things. As you know, in June and July 1952,
there were major UFO encounters in and around the Washington DC
area, and UFOs were seen by pilots - both civil and military -
and UFOs were tracked on both airborne and ground radar. Well,
following these encounters, the FBI demanded an up-dated
briefing from the Air Force - not just on the Washington
sightings but on the UFO subject in general. And the results of
that briefing make for very, very interesting reading.

IB: In what way?

NR: The FBI were informed officially in 1952 by the Air Force
that there was a percentage of all UFO reports which simply
defied explanation and which originated with credible people
such as military pilots. More importantly, the FBI was informed
that in a number of those cases there was additional back-up
from ground observers and radar traces. So it's clear that this
was an admittance to the FBI from the military that unknown
objects were violating U.S. airspace and were being seen in the
air at exactly the same time that they were being tracked on
radar. I'll quote you here a very pertinent statement made to
the FBI by the Air Force in that briefing: 'Some military
officials are seriously considering the possibility of
interplanetary ships.' To me, that speaks volumes.

IB: What else can you tell us about that time period?

NR: One case which springs to mind is that of someone described
in the FBI's files as a Miss Richards who saw a UFO - described
by the FBI as being 25 feet from the ground, appeared to be
spinning, was bright as though containing a series of lights in
a zigzagging pattern and was at least as wide as the highway -
at very close quarters in 1956 whilst driving along a public
highway with her fianc=E9e. What was important about this case
was that the witness was actually in the employ of the FBI at
the Washington DC headquarters and was described as being one of
the FBI best employees! Needless to say, there is a substantial
amount of paperwork on this case.

IB: Weren't some of the so-called Contactees like George Adamksi
and George Van Tassel investigated by the FBI in the 1950's and
1960's?

NR: That's right. Adamski is the subject of an FBI file which is
close on 100 pages in length; whilst Van Tassel's file amounts
to about 200 pages. Again, FBI agents went to extraordinary
lengths to inform themselves of the claims of Adamski, Van
Tassel and a number of the other contactees including George
Williamson and Truman Bethurum. Now, today, it's quite
unfashionable to talk about human-like aliens from Venus who
desired an end to the arms race etc - and this was a staple part
of contactee lore - but the FBI were heavily concerned by the
claims of the contactees. The FBI, for example, were well
acquainted with Adamski's claims about meeting aliens in the
desert; and regarding Van Tassel, would dispatch agents to
attend his lectures and conferences. In fact, it's quite
astonishing just how well informed the FBI were and there are
reams of files which I've reproduced in the book detailing the
FBI's knowledge of where people such as Adamski claimed the
aliens originated, why they were here and even the type of
government they allegedly had!

IB:This takes us through to the 1960's, doesn't it?

NR:Yes, it does.

IB:We know that the U.S. Air Force officially, at least got out
of the UFO subject with the close of Project Blue Book in 1969.
Did the FBI do the same?

NR:Largely, yes. But there was another mystery waiting in the
wings for them - namely the cattle mutilations. For decades,
numerous reports have surfaced throughout North America where
cattle have been found mutilated and killed under very strange
circumstances - blood and organs have been removed by someone or
something with presumed surgical skills. There have even been
reports where the animals organs have been removed with
laser-type technology. Most important of all, there are many
accounts on record where UFOs, black helicopters, and even alien
creatures have been seen in the vicinity of mutilation sites and
I cite in the book the testimony of those who suspect that the
cattle mutilations are the result of some type of alien
harvesting operation.

IB: Are there many FBI files on cattle mutilations?

NR:Oh, yes. About 400 pages at least; and this is just the
declassified material. There are literally dozens of such
reports on file with the FBI which originated with a number of
U.S. state police departments which, as far as I'm concerned,
fully confirm that the cattle mutilations are not the work of
predators, as some have suggested.

IB:Can you give an example?

NR:One such New Mexico State Police report which springs to mind
dates from 1976 and includes all the staple parts of a classic
animal mutilation including: the discovery of a dead and
mutilated cow; strange pod marks found on the ground as if
something had followed the cow; raised radiation readings; the
removal from the cow's body of vital organs; the discovery at
the site of some strange liquid which defied official
examination; and most interesting of all, a scorched area of
ground which gave every impression that some type of structured
object had landed at the site. Now, I would fully agree with
people who say that this sounds bizarre; but the key point is
that this all comes from official files released by the FBI.

IB: We've seen that the FBI received a large number of good
quality UFO reports over the years - not to mention the cattle
mutilation files of the 70's - but what of the claims about
crashed UFOs? Are there any reports in the FBI files of crashed
UFOs, dead aliens and so on

NR: Probably more than you would imagine! There is a very
interesting hand -written entry in one of the 1947 files from J.
Edgar Hoover complaining that the military wouldn't allow the
FBI access to a recovered flying disc and this is almost
certainly a reference to the UFO recovered at Roswell.
Similarly, in the early 1950's the FBI went to extraordinary
lengths to try and determine the truth surrounding the alleged
crash and recovery by the military of a UFO at Aztec, New
Mexico. Now, the Aztec crash has today been largely discredited;
however, the story does include many of the key ingredients of
Roswell, such as: the crashed UFO, small, dead alien bodies
recovered at the crash site and on. The FBI also picked up on
numerous rumours doing the rounds amongst the military in
Washington to the effect that, in the 1950's, the U.S.
Government had acquired the remains of three crashed UFOs and
their crews. As far as crashed UFOs and the FBI are concerned,
things went pretty much quiet then until the late 1980's when
the Majestic 12 documents surfaced from an anonymous - and
presumed insider source.

IB:Can you expand on this?

NR:Yeah, no problem. The MJ12 papers are essentially a group of
documents which purport to be a 1952 briefing for President
Eisenhower informing him of the crash and recovery of an
extraterrestrial spacecraft and crew near Roswell, New Mexico in
1947. Now, if the MJ12 papers are genuine, then they were leaked
unofficially and in violation of U.S. national secrecy laws and
it was here where the FBI had jurisdiction to get involved. The
FBI approached a number of agencies, such as the Air Force and
the Defence Intelligence Agency, in an attempt to unravel the
truth behind MJ12, but as powerful as the FBI was and is, even
they had to admit defeat; the main reason being that there were
so many secret levels within government it was impossible to get
a straight and complete answer. In other words, if there is or
was an MJ12 group and I for one believe there was and is then
access to their data must be limited to an incredibly small and
select body of individuals. But if it relates to actual crashed
UFOs and dead alien bodies, then this isn't surprising, and it's
not surprising that the FBI wouldn't be entrusted with the facts
either.

IB: How do you sum up your findings on the FBI's UFO involvement?

NR: Well, it's clear from the 3,000 or so pages which have been
declassified and which cover the late 1940's to almost the
present day, that the FBI has had deep and on-going involvement
in all manner of UFO - related activity. The cattle mutilations,
MJ12, crashed UFOs, dead aliens, military and civil pilot
reports of UFOs, and the many contactee accounts taken as a
whole point to deep and long lasting involvement in the UFO
subject on the FBI's part. And as remarkable as it may seem,
there really are equivalents at the FBI of Mulder and Scully
whose job it is to look into the various issues I've discussed
above; and in the words of The X-Files, the truth really is out
there - and it's in my book, too!

___________________________________________________

A Week With David Morehouse
by Richard Conway


For those of you who have not read the book PSYCHIC WARRIOR:
David Morehouse started life in the army as an infantry and went
on to become an officer. His military background dictated that
he would one day become a general in the US army. Circumstances,
however, prevented him from becoming a military officer of this
status. After being shot in the head and finding himself the
subject of many 'Out of Body Experiences', he arrived at what
has come to be known as 'Operation Stargate', the military
remote viewing program. After spending a week in Stowemarket,
and satisfying myself that remote viewing was indeed a real
occurrence, I had the opportunity along with the other members
of our class to put many questions to him.

 Some of the transcript is as follows:

Class: David, it was rumoured that they were making a film of
your life based on your book?

DM: Yeah, they were going to get Bruce Willis to play the part
of me, but he had another offer at the time to play the lead in
the film the Fifth Element. Instead Sly Stallone's agent made
sure that he got the part, but the film was stopped when the
script was rewritten and they had him - as me - blowing up buses
with one finger, you know....

Class: Is it going to be made?

DM: Yeah, I had lunch with Wes Craven recently; he said that the
script should be just like the book. He is interested.

Class: David, have you ever had any targets of UFOs that you had
to do for the military, during your time in the program?

DM: Well, you know, during the program we weren't asked to do
one target of a UFO. And this means to me that they know what
they are because otherwise we would have been asked to do
something like this. There is one time that we had to do an
exercise, I wish I had taken this file from the unit .... erm
...It was an exercise where 17 to 18 remote viewers in the unit
including myself did a target which turned out to be the
incident in Tunguska. Pretty much all the viewers and myself got
the same thing. We saw a rip in space which was in the sky, then
something fell out of it and plunged down hitting the ground
with an explosion. In my view this craft was driven by a sort of
... learner driver, this was what I feeling at the time.

Class: Have you ever gone to a target site and seen anything
that gave you nightmares afterwards?

DM: Like I wrote in the book, we went to the Lockerbie bombing
and had to move around the plane and find out what happened, I
couldn't sleep for days afterwards, the explosion .... Seeing a
little kid running and asking for her mommy. This was after the
plane had exploded ......

Class: David, has knowing what you now know, changed your
outlook on life?

DM: I wish people could see what I've seen because now I know
that we're not alone here. I've seen that there is something
else, as have many of the other viewers. This isn't it ....
There's more than this, I know.

David Morehouse is beginning to set up workshops in the UK for a
moderate cost. These will be held in London and the Ipswich
area. For contact information, or to find out more about remote
viewing in Britain, and how you can take a course to develop a
talent which the military (DIA) in the United States has been
teaching soldiers for 20 years:=

call 01449-614765 (Roy Farrell)

Richard Conway
___________________________________________________________

NEXT MONTH.................

SPEAKERS AT THE UFO MAGAZINE CONFERENCE IN LONDON
BOOK REVIEWS
ALTERNATIVE 3 LIVES ON

Permission to distribute this information on the Internet is
granted providing the authors and Hot Gossip UK are credited.
Photographs are copyright, and cannot be published without
permission

This section edited by Georgina Bruni and is accessible at
http://www.camelot-group.com/hotgossip/unexgoss.html







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 14

                      Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 98 08:27:55 PDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 03:04:34 -0400
Subject: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'


> From: RobIrving@aol.com
> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 23:04:53 EDT
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> >From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'
> >Date: Fri, 10 Jul 98 11:56:02 PDT

> There's a problem with your characterisation. As far as I am
> aware, Festinger never conducted any "study of prophetic saucer
> groups". When Prophesy Fails was derived from a much more
> complex idea. If you were to describe the work that simply in
> print I'd be appalled.

When Prophecy Fails, as any reader of it is aware, is a study of
a prophetic saucer group.  Festinger and his co-authors use it as
a case study to argue for a larger social theory which, alas,
proves to be based in part on a major misreading of a particular
historical episode.  As I have said before, read Prophecy for its
entertainment value, and for its insights into a particular group
in a particular time and at a particular place.  Read its larger
theoretical claims with caution or even skepticism.

> >My impression all along has been that you are using Festinger
> >simply as a stick with which to beat all who are interested in
> >UFOs, and I do not recall your even responding to my complaint
> >that you lump everybody together. So let me try one more time:

> I gave it the attention it deserved.

Having given you the opportunity now on several occasions to show
us that you know the difference between, say, Dorothy Martin and
Isabel Davis (or George Van Tassel and James McDonald, or
whomever), I can only conclude that you don't. After all, you
have said Prophecy is about "ufology" on more than one occasion.

> >See my words immediately above. In any event, I don't see any
> >lessons for, or parallels to, ufology in Festinger's book, which
> >isn't about ufology at all. It's about a saucerian group
> >oriented toward the contactee message and occult doctrine. The
> >fact that you seem to think this is the same as ufology only
> >confirms, alas, my suspicions about your approach.

> You use the word 'fact' all too loosely, Jerry. In fact your
> impression is quite wrong, of both WPF (did you read the
> introduction?) and me.

Have you caught that whopping historical error yet?  Have you, by
the way, read the introduction?

Jerry Clark







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 14

                         Re: Weirdness This Morning

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:45:07 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 03:38:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Weirdness This Morning

>From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net>
>Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 23:40:50 -0400
>Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 00:55:17 -0400
>Subject: Re: Artificial Structure Discovered on Moon

<snip>

>Here is a post I sent to UpDates in March of this year.

>>From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net>
>>To: "'updates@globalserve.net'" <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Weirdness This Morning
>>Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:36:42 -0500

>>Just in case anyone else reports something like this........
>>Around 5:00 a.m., Wednesday, March 11, 1998:

>>This morning I was woken up by the _Moon_.  It was like
>>someone turned the lights on.  I looked through the binocs
>>and it looked almost full and _very_ bright.  It was very clear.
>>It was WNW.  In about 20 minutes it had moved over by
>>Erskine (Yonge&Eglinton) and was orange and the left side
>>was shaded.  But what got me was it looked like something
>>was cutting off the right top side down to about 3 o'clock.
>>I watched through the binocs and could see something
>>almost white move from about 3 o'clock up along the
>>edge to 12 o'clock.  As the moon sank it looked like it
>>was melting and I could see this structure sticking out
>>at around 2 o'clock.  It was very prominent.  It was almost
>>like the moon was turning as it sank and it really looked
>>like it was melting.

>>Yes, I am loosing it.

>Or am I? Nick Balaskas could account for the melting effect but
>couldn't hazard a guess about the structure I saw sticking up
>from the Moon's surface.

>Where was the location of Clementine's image on the Moon?

>Anyone else want to hazard a guess as to what I saw?

The Moon was nearly setting. This sounds like an observation of
the Moon crossing what is known as the "zone of avoidance", where
the atmosphere causes a meteorological optical phenomenon which
is actually a superior mirage.  The Moon can appear to shimmer, a
black obscuration can be seen and sometimes a distorted part of
the image can appear at this layer of the atmosphere.

For a discussion of a famous example, which has probably been
mistakenly presented as evidence of a meteor striking the Moon,
and others, see 'News Notes', SKY & TELESCOPE, October, 1984, and
my letter on page 292, of the April, 1985 issue.

In the famous case, one Gervase of Canturbury reported a curious
June 25, 1178, observation of the Moon, "...after sunset when the
moon had first become visible a marvelous phenomeonon was
witnessed...Now there was a bright new moon ... suddenly the
upper horn spilt in two.  From the midpoint of this division a
flaming torch sprang up, spewing out, over a considerable
distance, fire, hot coals, and sparks ... the body of the moon
which was below writhed, as it were, in anxiety ... the moon
throbbed like a wounded snake.  Afterwards it resumed its proper
state.  This phenomenon was repeated a dozen times or more, the
flame assuming various twisting shapes at random and then
returning to normal ... after these transormations the moon ...
along its whole length, took on a blackish appearance."

Hope this might be the answer to your observation.

     Clear skies,
     Bob Young






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   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 14

                             Re: Sturrock Panel

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 98 08:41:25 PDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 03:53:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Sturrock Panel


> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 23:58:50 -0400
> From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Sturrock Panel
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> Regarding...

> >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Sturrock Panel
> >Date: Sun, 05 Jul 98 09:54:18 PDT

> You didn't respond to a question I asked, i.e., should a
> 'thorough scientific study' include, say, research into...

> 'abductions by aliens'
> 'alien implants'
> 'crop circles'
> the 'Gulf Breeze' photographs
> the 'alien autopsy' footage
> 'cattle mutilations'
> various anomalies caught on film during Space Shuttle missions
> the 'face on Mars'

I have responded to what needs to be responded to of the rest of
Mr. Easton's message on the Project 1947 list.

Meantime, the above is simply annoying.  If you're going to
challenge me, Mr. Easton, go to the trouble of learning what I
have written about the UFO phenomenon, and it'll save you the
necessity of asking dumb questions like the above.  Either you're
being disingenuous, or you are genuinely clueless.  In either
case, further discussion seems pointless.

Incidentally, speaking of our correspondent here, I urge list
readers to turn to Jenny Randles' piece on the Rendlesham case
(and Mr. Easton's role therein) in the Summer issue of IUR.

Jerry Clark








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                            Re: Flying Triangles

From: Max Burns <AlienHype1@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 14:33:26 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 03:43:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Flying Triangles


I was thinking if these triangles are World goverment. top
secret hardware why are the public seeing them so much?

And if they are military then the military industrial complex it
would appear are not bothered about the public sighting these
craft, and is in clear contradiction to classification Top
secret or above.

The prudent thing for the miltary to do would be to come out and
comment, with this is what they are dont worry, everything is
ok....

As clearly they have been seen by so many people now that its
not much of a secret anymore, the only secret is who is flying
these craft.

Something as advanced as this is either top secret or above, and
surely the best place to test and protect this secret would be
over the sea, and not over sleepy hamlet's big cities and over
20 countries of the world, as surely by that definition, it
would appear that nearly all the major countries of the world
have got huge triangular craft that would appear to have the
control of gravity.

And if this was the case, information leaks of the existence of
such craft would have been leaked to the public by now.

Before Mathews responds with I have evidence, lets not talk
about German science let,s see this up to date evidence that you
claim to have.

As a project as big as this would involve thousands of people,
and upto date information would have been leaked, a sly picture,
or some documents.

I my self would be very pleased for Tim Mathews if he aquired
this confirmation and would be pleased to offer my
congratulations.

I am not bothered about ego's or who's right or wrong but what
is the truth. I do not care who's version of truth it is. Mine
or Tim's perhaps its both, or any other version as long as it
settles this enigma and
confirms the facts about the origin of these craft...

Anything else is just ego's at war.....

Comments

Max Burns  Alienhype1@aol.com


http://www.soft.net.uk/staffs/maxsecret/sheff101.html

http://www.pufori.org/articles/sheffield/index_nf.htm

http://www.skipnet.com/~visitations/sheffield/

http://www.sightings.com/ufo/sheffield.htm






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                         Re: UK Meteor Blast Mystery

From: Kerry Ferrand <kferrand@rocketmail.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 08:06:48 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 03:15:46 -0400
Subject: Re: UK Meteor Blast Mystery


> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 06:14:32 -0400
> From: Werner Walter <113236.1604@compuserve.com>
> Subject: UFO UpDate: UK Meteor Blast Mystery
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> Hi List,

> I can=B4t believe that this last phenoman was a simple breaking
> up-fireball-bolide (and can=B4t also not believe thats was a real
> UFO). Or has anyone hearing once again from a "trace on the
> night-sky" like a letter "Z" or like a "Q" which lasted 45 minutes?
> Much more it is likley to thing that a re-entry-phenomena has
> produced this light-show and rocket-fluit was guilty by this
> event high up in the atmosphere and the last sunlight has
> illuminated the fluit up the the sky.

Might be a coincidence, but a Russian Zenit rocket was launched
and deployed 6 small satellites on July 10. Might be worth
checking up on its orbital elements to see if any of it passed
over the UK.

K






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                     ACC [FYI Only - Not For Discussion]

From: "Skywatch International Inc." <jhickman@itlnet.net>
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 18:20:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 02:55:15 -0400
Subject: ACC [FYI Only - Not For Discussion]


From: Alden Streeter <astreeter@email.msn.com>
To: Skypost <skypost@unix.ltlb.com>
Date: Monday, July 06, 1998 3:40 PM
Subject: ACC gives up on TCAP!


I had been watching the on-going investigation by the American
Computer Company (ACC) into the government's UFO cover-up with
some interest.  For almost a year now they have claimed they have
been developing a revolutionary new computer device called the
Transfer Capacitor (TCAP) based on notes on devices recovered
from the Roswell saucer crash. This device was to effectively be
equivalent to a 90 Gigabyte hard drive with RAM access speeds and
no moving parts.

Then even went so far as to say that they had completed R&D and
were applying for a US patent.

Then on July 4 they made an announcement that effectively
destroyed any belief I had in their credibility:  they were
withdrawing their patent application on the grounds that they
"discovered" that their development of the TCAP was a violation
of the United Nations Outer Space Treaty of 1967, you know the
one that forbids weapons in space and stuff.  Here is a version
of the treaty on their site:

http://www.accpc.com/1967treaty.html

When asked why on their BBS this was their reply:

=======================================================

Posted by Andrew Grissom on Monday, 6 July 1998, at 8:05 a.m., in
response to patent withdrawal, posted by Jean Marie Ivey on
Monday, 6 July 1998, at 8:02 a.m.

The release says why, until we resolve the issue of whether or
not the Shopkeeper's Notebook is Outer Space Property, then the
patents can not be applied for, as that would violate the Outer
Space Treaty.

The same thing would apply to any Outer Space Property in the
possession of the DoD which it has not shared with ALL THE PEOPLE
OF THE WORLD.

We will continue to research the TCAP technology and, perhaps, to
introduce new products based upon it.

Andy (*v*) [fgm robotic avatars]

> Why has ACC withdrawn requests for patents on newly discovered technology
> as stated in most recent news release? JMI

=======================================================

Note the use of the word "perhaps".  It seems to me that after
months of battling with government agents and misinformation
agents, this is a completely ludicrous reason to voluntarily stop
production of a product that they have already (supposedly) spent
millions developing, that will result in billions of dollars in
profit for their company.  In fact in their own investigation,
they claim to have found many instances were the U.S government
has already violated this treaty repeatedly in much the same
way.

The only reasable conclusion is that the whole thing was a hoax
from the very beginning (which most people seem to have decided
already anyway), and this is their best idea to try to sweep the
whole misguided idea under the rug.

***************************
SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL INC.
(A Non-Profit Organization)

<<<>>>

From: RGates8254@aol.com <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Sunday, July 12, 1998 7:03 PM
Subject: ACC Jack Shulman Admits Using UFO's For Bait


FYI  (Note to Randall Walton or is it Ed, Jack, Marcus, or William and you
already know all this)

>From IUFO and Riskers Mailing List

ACC Jack Shulman Admits Using UFO's For Bait

On a local radio show in Atlantic City, NJ yesterday, ACC
President Jack Shulman admitted using UFO's, aliens,
alien-abductions, and the paranormal to increase sales for his
small NJ company.

In the interview, Mr. Shulman was asked why this worked. "Because
so many people are involved in this, we have an automatic
audience. They are going to listen to us, because if they don't,
they become part of the conspiracy" Mr. Shulman said he thanks
both the people involved in ufology, and the United State
government for promoting his company for him.

ACC began using this tactic nearly two years ago, when the began
"The Roswell Story." The brainchild of Shulman himself, compiled
of reports from all over the net, in books, and on TV. "People
believe there is something to it, and if we claim that we have
the secrets, they come. While they are there, they might buy a
computer."

Some of those deep in the study of UFO's say that this is
damaging to a cause that is devoted to finding the truth. Shulman
says in response, "..the 'UFO community' is nothing but a bunch
of crackpots and losers, with nothing better to do with their
lives."

After making contact with some prominant figures in ufology, we
learned that ACC has very little pull with those in the study of
UFO's and alien abductions. Most tell us that ACC buried
themselves. Shulman says, "...yes, but our sales are up!"

A transcript of this radio show will be available in just a few
days.






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              1947 U.S. Army Document On 'Flying Wing' Aircraft

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 04:11:38 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 03:52:22 -0400
Subject: 1947 U.S. Army Document On 'Flying Wing' Aircraft

Received via "alt.alien.visitors" July 13.

Stig

*******

Date: 13 Jul 1998 18:29:48 GMT
From: groomwatch@aol.com (GroomWatch)
Subject: 1947 U.S. Army document on "flying wing" aircraft


A 1947 U.S. Army document that makes reference to one of several
German "flying wing" prototype experimental aircraft (this one by
Horten Brothers, which was test-flown in Lechfeld, Germany in
1944), can now be seen at:

http://www.eagle-net.org/groomwatch


Norio Hayakawa







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              Re: War Games Often Mistaken For UFOs In Tristate

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 03:21:25 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 03:45:27 -0400
Subject: Re: War Games Often Mistaken For UFOs In Tristate

From: The Cincinnati Enquirer.

Go to:

http://enquirer.com/editions/1998/07/13/loc_wargames13.html

Links are preceded by asterisks.

Stig

*******

War games often mistaken for UFOs in Tristate

"At first, it looked like an asteroid and fireball"

Monday, July 13, 1998

BY JOHN HOPKINS

The Cincinnati Enquirer

They saw it over the skies of Wilmington, Loveland and Mount Healthy
and as far south as Maysville, Ky.


(Image: An F-16 takes off at the Air National Guard base in
Springfield, Ohio. (Craig Ruttle photo))

*ZOOM

*INFOGRAHPIC What is an MOA?


Lights flashed in a synchronized pattern. A huge orange fireball
disappeared, then reappeared. Smaller objects moved in a triangular
formation. Below, neighborhood dogs barked.

In Maysville, Jamie Orme noticed the activity in the sky that night in
March 1997. It lasted, he said, no more than two minutes. "I was
astonished at what I saw," Mr. Orme said at the time. "They were little
balls of white light that appeared and disappeared. Sometimes one,
sometimes three or six little white balls of light in the distance."

Officials at the Ohio Air National Guard in Springfield have confirmed
that Tristate residents have indeed seen colorful objects in the sky
and may very well see them again.

But they weren't UFOs.

Military dog-fight maneuvers over the skies of Southern Ohio -- which
usually go unnoticed -- happen on a regular basis. The Air National
Guard conducts intercept training with F-16 "Falcon" jets and flares in
the skies over the region.

In military jargon, airspace very near Cincinnati is called the Buckeye
MOA. Though most people have never heard of this or any other MOA --
shorthand for Military Operating Area -- the Buckeye MOA is a hotbed of
high-altitude pyrotechnics and all-too-real-looking aerial dogfights.

The training overhead includes air-to-air refueling of F-16s by aerial
refueling tankers, dog fights and low-altitude exercises. There are
also search-and-rescue exercises.

In fact, similar war games are scattered throughout the Tristate. To
the west of Greater Cincinnati, pilots drop bombs on the Jefferson
Proving Grounds in Indiana, where the grounds remain littered with 1.5
million rounds of unexploded ammunition.

To the south, Blackhawk helicopters run low-level exercises over Fort
Campbell, Ky., near the Kentucky-Tennessee border. From Louisville to
Fort Knox, Ky., the C-130 "Hercules" four-engine turboprops -- a
transport aircraft -- conduct exercises along Military Training Routes.

On some nights, area residents may look skyward and catch a glimpse of
some training missions -- if the skies are clear. What residents were
actually seeing last spring were the F-16s' afterburners and flares
being ejected from the $17.5 million jet fighters.

The pilots were simulating air-to-air dog fights. And in actual combat,
pilots drop hot, glowing flares during enemy confrontations to confuse
heat-seeking missiles, said Capt. Neal O'Brian of the Air National
Guard in Springfield.

"They eject the flares and typically that's what people see," he said,
"a streak of flares that at night burn very bright. It's not uncommon
for people all across the country to mistake the flares for some
unidentified flying object.

"They might see the aircraft or hear it. More than likely, they will
hear it. But the flares take a certain amount of time to burn and that
is what they're seeing in the sky."



Mystery in sky


On clear nights, the high-altitude training missions inside the Buckeye
MOA -- a large block of air space over an area near Cincinnati,
Springfield, Columbus and Portsmouth -- startle many Greater Cincinnati
residents.

That was the case in March 1997.

In Loveland, Ohio, Jake Ashcraft reported seeing a "main object" and
smaller objects in a triangular formation in the sky. He said the main
object was "absolutely huge" and that many people "had to have seen
it."

Mr. Orme of Maysville, Ky., said what he saw did not appear to be
military maneuvers. "At first, it looked like an asteroid and fireball,
then it slowed down and came to a halt."

Air National Guard officials said there is no mystery to the sightings
-- the military exercises have been conducted for decades. The
afterburners of a climbing F-16 give an appearance of something
hovering.

Pilots at the 178th Fighter Wing in Springfield spend an average of six
hours a day flying in the Buckeye MOA, said Capt. Ann-Maria Coghlin,
public affairs officer for the 178th Fighter Wing. They spend an
average of 30 minutes a day training in a low-altitude training area
called the Brush Creek MOA, which is within the larger Buckeye MOA, she
said.

Maj. Brian MacLeod of the 178th Fighter Wing, recalled the night that
area residents got a rare glimpse of the air-to-air combat and
maneuvers.

"It was kind of a funny night," he said. "Most of the calls we got came
out of Columbus."

The jet flares actually burn bright white when they are ejected from
the jets, he said. But when viewed from ground level and at a distance,
the flares appear to flicker and burn orange because of pollution in
the air, Maj. MacLeod said.



Restricted air space


Exercises in the Buckeye MOA are conducted at altitudes above 5,000
feet. Supersonic flight is done at 35,000 feet, about seven miles above
ground, said Maj. MacLeod.

"We try to be very, very noise-conscious because people live down
there," he said.

Some civilian pilots -- unaware of these areas -- have flown their
small planes into the training spaces. It is a dangerous way to get an
up-close view. Aeronautical charts warn pilots of the many restricted
training areas throughout the country.

"MOAs are places typically where aircrafts practice maneuvers," said
Maj. Ken MacNevin of the National Guard Bureau in Alexandria, Va. "We
have special use areas, so that other aircrafts know to be aware."

In the United States, there are 388 MOAs, said William Shumann,
spokesman for the Federal Aviation Administration in Washington, D.C.
There are also much smaller Restricted Areas (RAs) scattered throughout
the region, as well as Military Training Routes (MTRs). The MTRs "tend
to be more like corridors, certain distances above the ground. They
also loop around communities, wildlife refuges and other sensitive
areas," said Maj. MacNevin.

The restricted areas, such as the nearby Jefferson Proving Grounds, are
used by the military for air-to-ground target training. Almost all the
units in the region routinely deploy to wherever the Air Force is
conducting operations, making it vital that pilots receive ongoing
training, said Maj. MacNevin.


Copyright 1998 The Cincinnati Enquirer, a Gannett Co. Inc. newspaper.

Use of this site signifies agreement to terms of service updated
2/28/98.






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                             Abduction Research

From: Roy Hale <roy_hale@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 20:38:51 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 04:21:39 -0400
Subject: Abduction Research


Dear list:

This is a question for anyone who is involved, in the Abduction
research side of things.

I am currently investigating a case of a young lady, who has been
seeing, beings that look very FELINE.

(Q). Has anybody else come across these type of beings.

It would be of great help to me if there has been a report of
these FELINE beings appearing somewhere else.

If you can help me out on this one please, contact me on the
following:

Roy_Hale@Hotmail.com.uk


kind regards To All

Roy..








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                A Big Thank You From ELUFON & 'Down to Earth

From: Roy Hale <roy_hale@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 20:50:03 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 04:25:01 -0400
Subject: A Big Thank You From ELUFON & 'Down to Earth

>From Roy_Hale@Yahoo.com.uk

Dear Friends:

Can I Express my thanks to all those Investigators/researchers who
took the time to send in articles for our publication "Down To earth".

We are currentlly sifting through these, and will be publishing them
over the coming months.

Our next issue will be a Crop-Circle Special, so all those croppies
out there, or people with a view on the Crop Phenomena now is the time
to send your articles/ Theories on this mysterious activity.

As per usual please send all correspondence to the following address:

ELUFON
Roy Hale
21 Sparrow Green, Bull Lane
Dagenham
Essex
RM10 7EU
U.K.

All published Writers will receive a copy of their work, in the used
issue.

There is a Three week deadline.
we welcome articles from all corners of the Globe.
Remember the UFO Phenomena is World-Wide.

Kindest Regards

Roy Hale (on behalf of ELUFON)






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                      One For The Conspiracy Theorists

From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 01:09:58 PDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 04:47:32 -0400
Subject: One For The Conspiracy Theorists

Dear list,

Playing Devil's Advocate -  here's one for the conspiracy
theorists straight fronn CNN's on-line news.

The coincidence amazes me but is that all it is?

Three members of the German rocket team that helped Americans
reach the moon died this past week in Alabama. Max Nowak, 89, of
Huntsville, Heinrich Paetz, 88, of Grant, and Albert Schuler,
83, of Huntsville helped develop German V-1 and V-2 rockets
during World War II and then came to the United States under
contract to the U.S. Army. Paetz diedThursday at his home,
Schuler died Friday at his home, and Nowak died
Tuesday as a Huntsville hospital.

Regards,
Leanne Martin
Computer Engineer @ WANG GLOBAL Australia






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                             UK FT's and Saucers

From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za>
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:04:27 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 11:56:51 -0400
Subject:  UK FT's and Saucers

Having browsed through the ongoing debate regarding whether the
UK FT's are government "Black" projects or not, I had a sudden
question pop into my head, and was wondering which of our
erstwhile list members could answer it:

What happened to the material that Hawker-Siddely acquired from
the A.V Roe aircraft company in the 1950s?  Did this lead
directly to the design of the Harrier? What about the Avrocar?
Can it be confirmed what exactly the UK firm got with respect to
Avro's discontinued research?

Do we know where the original A.V Roe design and engineering
staff ended up? I understand it was NASA, Lockheed, and some
other companies.

Why am I asking this? Well, why the sudden propogation of FT's in
various countries, all possibly in a similar timeframe?

regards

Jakes E. Louw
louwje@telkom.co.za






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              NASA Establishes Near-Earth Object Program Office

From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 13:36:23 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 13:52:18 -0400
Subject: NASA Establishes Near-Earth Object Program Office

Donald Savage
Headquarters, Washington, DC   July 14, 1998
(Phone:  202/358-1727)

Mary Beth Murrill
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
(Phone:  818/354-5011)

RELEASE:  98-123

NASA ESTABLISHES NEAR-EARTH OBJECT
PROGRAM OFFICE AT JET PROPULSION LABORATORY

A new program office to coordinate NASA-sponsored efforts to
detect, track and characterize potentially hazardous asteroids
and comets that could approach Earth will be established at
NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), Pasadena, CA.

NASA's Near-Earth Object Program Office will focus on the goal
of locating at least 90 percent of the estimated 2,000 asteroids
and comets that approach the Earth and are larger than about
2/3-mile (about 1 kilometer) in diameter, by the end of the next
decade.

"These are objects that are difficult to detect because of their
relatively small size, but are large enough to cause global
effects if one hit the Earth," said Dr. Donald K. Yeomans of
JPL, who will head the new program office.  "Finding a majority
of this population will require the efforts of researchers at
several NASA centers, at universities and at observatories
across the country, and will require the participation by the
international astronomy community as well."

"We determined that, in order to achieve our goals, we need a
more formal focusing of our near-Earth object tracking efforts
and related communications with the supporting research
community," said Dr. B. Carl Pilcher, science director for Solar
System Exploration in NASA's Office of Space Science, NASA
Headquarters.  "I want to emphasize that science research
solicitations and resulting peer reviews, international
coordination, and strategic planning regarding future missions
will remain the responsibilities of NASA Headquarters."

In addition to managing the detection and cataloging of
near-Earth objects, the new NASA office will be responsible for
facilitating communications between the astronomical community
and the public should any potentially hazardous objects be
discovered as a result of the program, Pilcher said.

JPL was selected to host the program office because of its
expertise in precisely tracking the positions and predicted
paths of asteroids and comets.  No significant additional staff
hiring at JPL is expected at this time.

A fact sheet describing NASA's research and spacecraft missions
related to asteroids and comets is available on the
Internet at the following address:

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/facts/HTML/FS-023-HQ.htm

     -end-







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                      Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

From: RobIrving@aol.com
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 13:06:36 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 13:44:58 -0400
Subject: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'
>Date: Mon, 13 Jul 98 08:27:55 PDT

Jerry,

>After all, you
>have said Prophecy is about "ufology" on more than one occasion.

I have said there are parallels, which is not the same thing as
being 'about'. These parallels would apply to any area in which
belief flies in the face of evidence.

>Festinger and his co-authors use it as a case study to argue for
>a larger social theory which, alas, proves to be based in part on a
>major misreading of a particular historical episode.

By your own admission you are largely ignorant of this larger
social theory, which was published in detail after WPF. My
complaint here, Jerry, is that you are suggesting that this has
been dismissed when it hasn't. In fact it is alive and well and
the parallels are there for any who care to study it.

Rob






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                            Re: Flying Triangles

From: "Mark LeCuyer" <randydan@wavetech.net>
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 12:46:32 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 06:35:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Flying Triangles


> From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Flying Triangles
> Date: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 2:43 AM

> From: Max Burns <AlienHype1@aol.com>
> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 14:33:26 EDT
> To: Updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Flying Triangles


> I was thinking if these triangles are World goverment. top
> secret hardware why are the public seeing them so much?

> And if they are military then the military industrial complex it
> would appear are not bothered about the public sighting these
> craft, and is in clear contradiction to classification Top
> secret or above.

Hello Mr. Burns:)

This leads me to believe that these craft, if they are indeed
terrestrial, are already outdated. Something much more advanced,
if history repeats itself, is in the wings and operating
covertly. Once we then start hearing reports of those future
generation ufo crafts, we'll know that they too are outdated.
It's a repetitious cycle.

Remember the stealth fighters and bombers? We were hearing
reports of these strange ufo crafts before the government finally
unveiled them to the world. Notice how they are basically
triangular in configuration also.

If we're patient, and we really have no choice in the matter, we
will then know the truth behind these strange triangular ufo
craft also. My bet is they are HIGHLY advanced military aircraft,
developed through the use of extraterrestrial technology, that we
have been unknowingly supporting with our tax dollars through our
governments black budget programs. Is it really any wonder why we
work for almost the first five months of each year only to hand
over our hard earned dollars to the government. They're ours, we
just don't know it yet.

Mark - Alien Astronomer
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583






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             DISPATCH # 97 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope

From: ParaScope@AOL.COM
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 20:36:42 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 06:33:46 -0400
Subject: DISPATCH # 97 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope

DISPATCH # 97 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope

S O M E T H I N G   S T R A N G E   I S   H A P P E N I N G

7/14/98

Quote of the Week

"Do not condemn the judgment of another because it differs from
your own. You may both be wrong."

--Dandemis:

-----------------------

Announcing: Mr. Apol's UFO Book Search
NEW FREE service for ParaScope visitors!

Looking for hard-to-find UFO books? Let our "man in black" track 'em down for
you! ParaScope presents Mr. Apol's UFO Book Search, a free service for our
visitors. Send in your request via our quick and easy online form, and if Mr.
Apol locates the book, he'll get back to you on the price and availability
status. Try it out at www.parascope.com/parastore/usedUFObooks.htm, and check
out the Terms & Conditions for more info on the service.

-----------------------

Congratulations: Everything Is Under CTRL

ParaScope sends hearty congratulations out to Kris Millegan, editor of CTRL:
the Conspiracy Theory Research List, whose article on the Order of Skull and
Bones was cited as a source in Robert Anton Wilson's new book, "Everything's
Under Control: Conspiracies, Cults and Coverups" (pp. 391-392). You can read
Kris' article on our web site at
www.parascope.com/articles/0997/skullbones.htm, and RAW's new book is
available in the ParaStore (www.parascope.com/parastore). For information on
subscribing to the Conspiracy Theory Research List, see
www.parascope.com/other/lists/ctrl.htm. Way to go, Kris!

--------------------

Rant of the Week: �The Reptiles Like Our Babies�

Every week we pick the wackiest, scariest, nastiest or funniest rant from the
hundreds of letters received by us here at ParaScope headquarters, and present
it to you as our Rant of the Week. This week, �Patricia� offers tips on how to
get your children to drink coffee, smoke cigarettes and eat red meat to avoid
ending up in an alien�s stew pot. (What, no L�il Martini for Kids?) Enjoy.


�I can give you all my thoughts on HOW to protect yourself and loved ones from
being eaten!!!  And the REPTILES like our babies.  Give your kids coffee with
milk in it, expose them to cig smoke or city polution, or any slight polution
you can think of!!!  Keep in mind we are not at the top of the food chain and
they like NON-POLUTED children.  That is why there are millions of children
disappearing EVERY YEAR!   This is not a scare post but what I believe is
happening RIGHT NOW!!!  Children in the mountain areas are at great risk as
well as children out in small towns. I also believe they want us to quit
eating meat ourselves because they like GRAIN-FED MEAT just as we prefer the
same in meat and look how we like VEAL which is a baby.  They have screwed
with our thyroid because they want us to produce babies that tend to have alot
of fat, making the meat more tender!!  There is a method in their alien
maddness and the sooner the SHEEPLE get wise the sooner they can be protected.
To be absolutely healthy is NOT SAFE.  Hopefully the Gov will find a vacine
that will drive away the aliens from those people but in the meantime you must
take care to polute your children and yourself in some small way.  While they
are producing hybrids for the the new wave of humans to populate the Earth, I
feel the hybrids serve another more sinister idea and that is that the Aliens
eat them.(and better them than you and I).�

------

All rants are printed �as is,� with spelling and grammar goofs left
uncorrected. Some rants may be edited for brevity or clarity, to the extent
such a thing is possible. If you�ve got a rant you�d like to share, send it to
pscplady@aol.com with �possible rant� in the subject line of your letter.

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Coming Up This Week!

Catch a number of great stories this week on the ParaScope web and AOL sites,
including daily updates to our Conspiracy Newsline and Daily Dose features.
Among the articles you'll want to check out:



FEMA's X File

The long-awaited "X-Files" movie is here, projecting the paranoia and intrigue
of the smash TV show onto the big screen. Some officials in Washington are not
pleased. Unlike the "X-Files," Mount Weather is real -- and the Federal
Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), which maintains the Mount Weather facility
and plays a role in various conspiracy theories about secret plans for martial
law in the United States, issued a public affairs guidance on how to respond
to allegations voiced in the movie. It's just a fun flick, right? So why the
unusual p.r. measure? Dossier details FEMA's very own X File.

--------------------

"Talking to Heaven"? Like Hell!
The Spirited Trickery of James Van Praagh

The latest supernatural sensation to hit the top of the bestseller lists is
James Van Praagh's book "Talking to Heaven: A Medium's Message of Life After
Death." Not only does Van Praagh claim the ability to contact the afterword
and carry on conversations with the dead, but he also says that anyone can do
it -- and if you buy the book, he'll tell you how. But is it all just a bunch
of hocus-pocus? Be sure to read Enigma editor D. Trull's review before you run
to the bookstore.

--------------------

Fortean Slips: "Wide World of Weirdos" Edition!

Fine Old Cannibals: Could it be that societies who feast on human flesh have
only existed in myth and folklore? Chew on the evidence and digest the
question of whether cannibalism is historically rare or well done.

Druids Go Home to Stonehenge: Over a decade ago, modern-day Druids were banned
from Stonehenge -- but now these two mystical mainstays have been reunited at
last! Get the full scoop on who they were, and what they were doing.

Death of a Devil's Advocate: If you think devil worship is weird and baffling,
wait till you see how it's gotten even crazier since the death of Anton LaVey
last year. Will the Church of Satan survive without its founder and high
priest?

--------------------

The Paper Trail: All-New Edition

The secret documents keep on coming, and The Paper Trail is back to review the
latest government declassification news. Featured in this month's issue: the
CIA's latest offerings on the Bay of Pigs invasion -- 3,200 pages of
previously secret material and the agency's first-ever historical CD-ROM; the
JFK assassination -- Assassination Records Review Board releases Jim Garrison
grand jury documents; and the Operation Tailwind scandal -- what does the
documentary evidence suggest about the alleged use of sarin gas by Special
Forces units in Laos? Follow The Paper Trail to get the facts!

--------------------

Malice in Wonderland

San Francisco University student Peter Gordon recently authored an excellent
paper titled "Malice in Wonderland: An Essay on CIA Interrogation Techniques
and the Lesser Forms of Torture in Daily Life" for a communications course,
which is available for reading on the SFU web site at
www.sfu.ca/~pbgordon/Malice.html. Peter's research included ParaScope's
reprint of the CIA's 1963 interrogation manual as a primary source; the manual
details the use drugs, hypnosis and torture in obtaining information from
"resistant sources." Great work, Peter! ParaScope's reprint is still
available; see www.parascope.com/interrorgation for more info, or go to
www.parascope.com/articles/0397/kubarkin.htm to read the online version for
free.

--------------------

Plus, catch your daily dose of rampant rumor-mongering, wild-eyed speculation,
irresponsible accusations, unsubstantiated allegations, and, of course, the
absolute gospel truth you won�t find anywhere else, each weekday in Conspiracy
Newsline.


...All this, and much, much more!

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing!

Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize
you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway?
Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up!

To unsubscribe yourself from Dispatch:

1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com

2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch

That's all there is to it!

Likewise, to subscribe:

1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com

2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch

----------------------------------------

ParaScope
11288 Ventura Blvd., #904
Studio City, CA 91604

America Online -- keyword: parascope
parascope@aol.com

World-Wide Web -- http://www.parascope.com
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                    Bormann Demystifies Gemini 7 UFO Myth

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 00:45:37 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 06:27:28 -0400
Subject: Bormann Demystifies Gemini 7 UFO Myth

Excerpt from an article "Flying the Gusmobile" about the Gemini
missions. Published on the site of "Air and Space" magazine
July 14.

URL:

http://www.airspacemag.com:80/ASM/Mag/Index/1998/AS/ftgm.html

Stig

*******

<snip>

At almost twice the length of Gemini 5, Commander Frank Borman's Gemini
7 mission may have been even more trying, but it grabbed the attention
of at least one Hollywood producer.

"Right after we got into orbit we were supposed to "station keep' or
fly formation with the booster," Borman says. "We were flying formation
and taking photographs and infrared measurements and I started calling
it a "bogey,' which is an old fighter pilot term. Well, a lot of the
UFO freaks on the ground picked this up and said we had seen a UFO
because we had referred to our booster as a bogey. Just this past year
I got a call from a producer at "Unsolved Mysteries" and they said, "We
read your account about your seeing a UFO on Gemini 7 and would you
come on the program?' I told them: "I'd love to come on your program
because I'd love to straighten that out.' I explained what it was I saw
and I said, "I don't think there were UFOs,' and the producer said,
"Well, I'm not sure we want you on the program.' "

<snip>






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                      Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

From: "Jerome Clark" <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 98 13:54:36 PDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 06:21:04 -0400
Subject: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'


> From: RobIrving@aol.com
> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 13:06:36 EDT
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'

> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'She Blinded Me with Science'
> >Date: Mon, 13 Jul 98 08:27:55 PDT

> Jerry,

> >After all, you
> >have said Prophecy is about "ufology" on more than one occasion.

> I have said there are parallels, which is not the same thing as
> being 'about'. These parallels would apply to any area in which
> belief flies in the face of evidence.

Including unsupported claims by UFO debunkers?  Or, as I
suspect, do you exclude those?

> >Festinger and his co-authors use it as a case study to argue for
> >a larger social theory which, alas, proves to be based in part on a
> >major misreading of a particular historical episode.

> By your own admission you are largely ignorant of this larger
> social theory, which was published in detail after WPF. My
> complaint here, Jerry, is that you are suggesting that this has
> been dismissed when it hasn't. In fact it is alive and well and
> the parallels are there for any who care to study it.

What strikes me, Rob, is your apparent unawareness -- the less
polite phrase is ignorance of the fact -- that Festinger's
theories have been challenged.  I don't recall ever saying
"dismissed," and I wouldn't have said it because it is not true.
If you need to beat down strawmen, do it elsewhere. The
hypothesis proposed in When Prophecy Fails, however, has failed
replication. These problems have been reported in the
social-science literature.  It seems odd, that being the case,
that you are accusing ME of ignorance.  One thinks here of the
pot and the kettle.

And you still haven't found that whopping historical error,
have you?

I note, too, that you continue to maintain a telling
silence when asked about your apparent belief that
anybody who thinks UFOs may represent something
extraordinary is in some sense comparably irrational,
whether Dorothy Martin or Isabel Davis, Truman
Bethurum or Richard Haines, Billy Meier or Mark
Rodeghier.  Once again: is this indeed your view?

Jerry Clark








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                           STARDUST Status Report

From: Mark LeCuyer <randydan@wavetech.net>
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 20:30:55 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 06:55:14 -0400
Subject: STARDUST Status Report


From: Mark - Alien Astronomer
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583

Source: Ron Baalke  BAALKE@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov
Subject: STARDUST Status Report
July 10, 1998
Ken Atkins
STARDUST Project Manager

Assembly, Test, and Launch Operations (ATLO) activities: The Lockheed
Martin Team completed the close out and loading of the spacecraft
into the shipping container for move to the Multiple Test Facility
(MTF) on schedule -- July 11!! This signals a major step in readying
the ship for flight. In the MTF it will be subjected to the vacuum,
thermal and other environments it will experience in actual flight to
the comet. This literal "spin, shake, and bake" is intended to unmask
any weak spots in Stardust's flight readiness. The move to the MTF is
like the "roll out" before first flight tests of new airplanes.

With the vehicle now assembled, the team is now anticipating a chance
to see how designs and manufacturing will work all together in the
crucible of space. It is an exciting time.

Certainly for those visiting this site regularly, you have been able
to follow the action on the vidicam of the dedicated folks in the
"bunny suits" as they have carefully brought all the pieces together.
We know Stardust is "alive" in the protective, air-filled comfort of
the "room-temperature" high bay. Now we're moving the camera with the
ship to chronicle the adventures in the tougher regime of
environmental and thermal test. So, stay tuned.

We announced with the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Fund that all 58,214
names from the Vietnam Memorial will be added to the second microchip
as a tribute to those who fell in America's longest war.
Approximately 2,500,000 people visit "The Wall" each year, making it
the most-visited memorial in Washington D.C. The full text of the
press release is available by clicking on "Stardust in the News"
under the "What's New" beacon on the homepage
http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news27.html

We are now more than 600,000 "passengers" for the Wild-2 ride!

For more information on the STARDUST mission - the first ever comet
sample return mission - please visit the STARDUST home page:

http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov







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                 NASA May Send the Marie Curie Rover to Mars

From: Mark LeCuyer <randydan@wavetech.net>
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 20:15:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 06:53:11 -0400
Subject: NASA May Send the Marie Curie Rover to Mars


From: Mark - Alien Astronomer
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583

MARS SOCIETY SPECIAL BULLETIN #4
For more information see http://www.marssociety.org

SEND "MARIE CURIE" TO MARS!

As a result of the $20 million added to the Mars 2001 mission by
the Senate Appropriations Committee following mobilizations by
the Mars Society and the Planetary Society, NASA is now
considering restoring a rover to the mission. NASA had
originally planned to fly the highly capable Athena rover to
Mars in 2001, however after the administration took $60 million
from the program to pay for a Space Station overrun, the Athena
rover was pulled from the mission. The $20 million restored is
not enough to support flying Athena, but it may be possible to
fly the smaller Marie Curie rover equipped with some of Athena's
instrumentation. Marie Curie is about the size of the Sojourner
rover flown to Mars by the Pathfinder mission in 1997, but could
be made more sophisticated. In particular, increasing the power
of her transmitter could allow Marie Curie to report back
through the orbiter, as well as the lander, thus allowing her to
rove over the horizon from the landing site and to continue
operations after the lander fails. Flying her in 2001 would be a
major step towards restoring the forward motion in the robotic
Mars program that was severely endangered after the
Administration's unsound decision to strip committed funds from
the 2001 Mars mission. To insure that she flies, the Senate
Appropriations Committee will need to follow the $20 million
they wisely restored to the program this year with another $30
million next year. Committee staffers have implied that they
will do this, but the situation is fluid and continued
political pressure is needed to make sure that this occurs.

The real issue however, is that the robotic Mars program is
grossly underfunded. For a budget of $150 million per year
(about 1% of NASA's budget) they need to launch two
Discovery-class missions to Mars every two years while preparing
the technology base for a much more ambitious Mars Sample Return
mission, tentatively scheduled for 2005. In reality, in order
for this program to be accomplished, the funding for the Mars
program needs to be doubled. It should be: No other current NASA
program is accomplishing near as much for anything like the
cost. Furthermore, for the administration not to do so is a
direct violation of President Clinton's pledge of August 1996 to
"put the full technological and intellectual might of the United
States behind the search for life on Mars." Beyond this, of
course, is the need for starting the humans to Mars program,
beginning at a funding level equal to that of the robotic Mars
program.

Marie Curie may not be the Goddess of Wisdom, but she's the next
best thing. If she flies, it will be because of the political
pressure mounted by the Mars Society and like minded people so
far, and that which we will mobilize in the future. The same can
be said for raising the funding of the robotic Mars program
overall to an adequate level, and getting the humans-to-Mars
program started. It can happen, but it will only happen if we
make it happen. Everyone needs to speak up.

Save the robotic Mars exploration program. Start the human
exploration program.  Send these gentlemen your message!

President Bill Clinton - president@whitehouse.gov
Vice President Al Gore - vice.president@whitehouse.gov
NASA Administrator Dan Goldin -dgoldin@mail.hq.nasa.gov
Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott  (R-MS) -
senatorlott@lott.senate.gov
Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich (R-GA) - georgia6@mail.house.gov
Senator Christopher Bond, Chairman VA, HUD, and Independent Agencies
Subcommittee - kit_bond@bond.senate.gov
Representative Jerry Lewis (R-CA), Chairman VA, HUD, and Independent
Agencies Subcommittee - c/o dave.lesstrang@mail.house.gov

Further information about the situation with the 2001 Mars
mission can be found in Mars society Special Bulletins #2 and
#3, which are posted on the Mars society website at
http://www.marssociety.org.







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                 CE: Open Letter to The Cincinnati Enquirer

From: Kenny Young <task@FUSE.NET>
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 12:58:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 07:14:16 -0400
Subject: CE: Open Letter to The Cincinnati Enquirer

Comment:

See:

http://enquirer.com/editions/1998/07/13/loc_wargames13.html

For the July 13 article from the Cincinnati Enquirer.

It is interesting to note the skew that Hopkins delivers to the
piece, conveniently disregarding viable information conflicting
with the flare theory. Hopkins contacted me three times in March
and April of 1997 regarding this piece, so he was aware of the
discrepancies against the flare theory, yet selectively chose to
delete that data.

Yesterday I spoke with Hopkins about the article, which took
over one year before appearing in the Cincinnati Enquirer
(recenly troubled by the Chiquita calamity involving reporter
Michael Gallagher), and reporter John Hopkins said that the
editors of The Cincinnati Enquirer simply wanted some "Fourth of
July Fluff" to run in their newspaper, which is why this story
was a banner headline and appeared at all (on July 13th).

I conveyed my concern over the skew that he presented, and he
basically acknowledged that the article portrays "the military's
side of things." I also expressed that it was well within my
rights to complain that Hopkins had utilized my research for his
piece, to which I was given no reference or attribution.

I left Hopkins and his editors a letter to mull over afterward.

KY

------------------------------------------

An Open Letter To The Cincinnati Enquirer July 13, 1998

Dear Mr. Harry M. Whipple, President and Publisher

The front-page, headline article of Monday, July 13, 1998: "War
Games Often Mistaken For UFOs In Tristate" by John Hopkins,
contains investigative information which Hopkins can assume no
credit for.

The details used in this piece were gleaned from information
Hopkins acquired from yours truly in late March of 1997, when
the newsroom of The Cincinnati Enquirer was flooded with UFO
reports. Hopkins informed me, "We don't know what to do with all
of these sightings!"

Cincinnati Enquirer readers were regrettably never apprised of
this sensational and dramatic happening in the skies above them
by the news staff of The Enquirer, who had stories of greater
importance to convey: such as the new site for the Reds stadium,
beef prices or non-smoking ordinances. This surprising lack of
reportage was in light of the intense national media attention
and hype surrounding the supposed Arizona UFO sightings, in
which the same flare explanation may also apply.

Furthermore, the article references - word for word - quotes and
descriptive details drawn straight from the "UFO RESEARCH:
CINCINNATI!" web-site. [address - http://home.fuse.net/task/] In
some circumstances, this particular deed could be termed
'plagiarism.'

Most disturbing is the apparent skew The Enquirer article
exhibits in reportage of these spectacular series of events.
There were numerous, documented eyewitness details regarding
these odd happenings which strongly conflicts with the 'flare
explanation.' Hopkins quotes eyewitness Jamie Orme, yet deletes
his strong conviction that his sighting was �not caused by
flares.� These contradictory reports were totally glossed over
and disregarded by The Cincinnati Enquirer. The omission of
these conflicting details renders incomplete information to the
readership of The Enquirer and results in inaccurate reportage.

John Hopkins was informed of my data-gathering research and
investigations, in which I concluded that the UFO sightings were
explainable as these flares he references. In my analysis of
this incident, I found it necessary to address these reports
conflicting with the �flare explanation� so that my report could
be factually accurate and objective, and I am troubled that such
concern for accuracy was not apparent in the article. The
apparent skew this article conveys and usage of my research
without proper attribution is grossly unethical and in
remarkably poor taste.

Our skies are full of misunderstanding, mystery, and yes,
perhaps even conspiracy. The Cincinnati Enquirer would do well
to conduct proper and objective reportage of such unusual
happenings so that we may have an informed populace.

Respectfully,

KENNY YOUNG
Cincinnati, OH
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/task/






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                      CE: 'War Games Mistaken for UFOs'

From: Kenny Young <task@FUSE.NET>
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 12:47:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 07:12:13 -0400
Subject: CE: 'War Games Mistaken for UFOs'

http://enquirer.com/editions/1998/07/13/loc_wargames13.html


The Cincinnati Enquirer.
Monday, July 13, 1998
By John Hopkins

"War games often mistaken for UFOs in Tristate "
"At first, it looked like an asteroid and fireball"

They saw it over the skies of Wilmington, Loveland and Mount
Healthy and as far south as Maysville, Ky.

Lights flashed in a synchronized pattern. A huge orange fireball
disappeared, then reappeared. Smaller objects moved in a
triangular formation. Below, neighborhood dogs barked.

In Maysville, Jamie Orme noticed the activity in the sky that
night in March 1997. It lasted, he said, no more than two
minutes. "I was astonished at what I saw," Mr. Orme said at the
time. "They were little balls of white light that appeared and
disappeared. Sometimes one, sometimes three or six little white
balls of light in the distance."

Officials at the Ohio Air National Guard in Springfield have
confirmed that Tristate residents have indeed seen colorful
objects in the sky and may very well see them again.

But they weren't UFOs.

Military dog-fight maneuvers over the skies of Southern Ohio --
which usually go unnoticed -- happen on a regular basis. The Air
National Guard conducts intercept training with F-16 "Falcon"
jets and flares in the skies over the region.

In military jargon, airspace very near Cincinnati is called the
Buckeye MOA. Though most people have never heard of this or any
other MOA -- shorthand for Military Operating Area -- the
Buckeye MOA is a hotbed of high-altitude pyrotechnics and
all-too-real-looking aerial dogfights.

The training overhead includes air-to-air refueling of F-16s by
aerial refueling tankers, dog fights and low-altitude exercises.
There are also search-and-rescue exercises.

In fact, similar war games are scattered throughout the
Tristate. To the west of Greater Cincinnati, pilots drop bombs
on the Jefferson Proving Grounds in Indiana, where the grounds
remain littered with 1.5 million rounds of unexploded
ammunition.

To the south, Blackhawk helicopters run low-level exercises over
Fort Campbell, Ky., near the Kentucky-Tennessee border. From
Louisville to Fort Knox, Ky., the C-130 "Hercules" four-engine
turboprops -- a transport aircraft -- conduct exercises along
Military Training Routes.

On some nights, area residents may look skyward and catch a
glimpse of some training missions -- if the skies are clear.
What residents were actually seeing last spring were the F-16s'
afterburners and flares being ejected from the $17.5 million jet
fighters.

The pilots were simulating air-to-air dog fights. And in actual
combat, pilots drop hot, glowing flares during enemy
confrontations to confuse heat-seeking missiles, said Capt. Neal
O'Brian of the Air National Guard in Springfield.

"They eject the flares and typically that's what people see," he
said, "a streak of flares that at night burn very bright. It's
not uncommon for people all across the country to mistake the
flares for some unidentified flying object.

"They might see the aircraft or hear it. More than likely, they
will hear it. But the flares take a certain amount of time to
burn and that is what they're seeing in the sky."



Mystery in sky


On clear nights, the high-altitude training missions inside the
Buckeye MOA -- a large block of air space over an area near
Cincinnati, Springfield, Columbus and Portsmouth -- startle many
Greater Cincinnati residents.

That was the case in March 1997.

In Loveland, Ohio, Jake Ashcraft reported seeing a "main object"
and smaller objects in a triangular formation in the sky. He
said the main object was "absolutely huge" and that many people
"had to have seen it."

Mr. Orme of Maysville, Ky., said what he saw did not appear to
be military maneuvers. "At first, it looked like an asteroid and
fireball, then it slowed down and came to a halt."

Air National Guard officials said there is no mystery to the
sightings -- the military exercises have been conducted for
decades. The afterburners of a climbing F-16 give an appearance
of something hovering.

Pilots at the 178th Fighter Wing in Springfield spend an average
of six hours a day flying in the Buckeye MOA, said Capt.
Ann-Maria Coghlin, public affairs officer for the 178th Fighter
Wing. They spend an average of 30 minutes a day training in a
low-altitude training area called the Brush Creek MOA, which is
within the larger Buckeye MOA, she said.

Maj. Brian MacLeod of the 178th Fighter Wing, recalled the night
that area residents got a rare glimpse of the air-to-air combat
and maneuvers.

"It was kind of a funny night," he said. "Most of the calls we
got came out of Columbus."

The jet flares actually burn bright white when they are ejected
from the jets, he said. But when viewed from ground level and at
a distance, the flares appear to flicker and burn orange because
of pollution in the air, Maj. MacLeod said.

Restricted air space

Exercises in the Buckeye MOA are conducted at altitudes above
5,000 feet. Supersonic flight is done at 35,000 feet, about
seven miles above ground, said Maj. MacLeod.

"We try to be very, very noise-conscious because people live
down there," he said.

Some civilian pilots -- unaware of these areas -- have flown
their small planes into the training spaces. It is a dangerous
way to get an up-close view. Aeronautical charts warn pilots of
the many restricted training areas throughout the country.

"MOAs are places typically where aircrafts practice maneuvers,"
said Maj. Ken MacNevin of the National Guard Bureau in
Alexandria, Va. "We have special use areas, so that other
aircrafts know to be aware."

In the United States, there are 388 MOAs, said William Shumann,
spokesman for the Federal Aviation Administration in Washington,
D.C. There are also much smaller Restricted Areas (RAs)
scattered throughout the region, as well as Military Training
Routes (MTRs). The MTRs "tend to be more like corridors, certain
distances above the ground. They also loop around communities,
wildlife refuges and other sensitive areas," said Maj. MacNevin.

The restricted areas, such as the nearby Jefferson Proving
Grounds, are used by the military for air-to-ground target
training. Almost all the units in the region routinely deploy to
wherever the Air Force is conducting operations, making it vital
that pilots receive ongoing training, said Maj. MacNevin.

                                                        End of
article:

Comment:

Interesting to note the skew that Hopkins delivers to the piece,
conveniently disregarding viable information conflicting with
the flare theory. Hopkins contacted me three times in March and
April of 1997 regarding this piece, so he was aware of the
discrepancies against the flare theory, yet selectively chose to
delete that data.

Yesterday I spoke with Hopkins about the article, which took
over one year before appearing in the Cincinnati Enquirer
(recenly troubled by the Chiquita calamity involving reporter
Michael Gallagher), and reporter John Hopkins said that the
editors of The Cincinnati Enquirer simply wanted some "Fourth of
July Fluff" to run in their newspaper, which is why this story
was a banner headline and appeared at all. I also expressed that
it was within my rights to complain that Hopkins had utilized my
research for his piece, to which I was given no reference or
attribution.

I left Hopkins and his editors a letter to mull over afterward.

Kenny Young
Cincinnati, OH
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/task/






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                            Re: Flying Triangles

From: AlienHype1@aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:40:49 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 10:55:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Flying Triangles


>From: "Mark LeCuyer" <randydan@wavetech.net>
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Flying Triangles
> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 12:46:32 -0500

>From: Max Burns <AlienHype1@aol.com>
>Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 14:33:26 EDT
>To: Updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Flying Triangles


 <sniped>

>Hello Mr. Burns:)

>This leads me to believe that these craft, if they are indeed
>terrestrial, are already outdated. Something much more advanced,
>if history repeats itself, is in the wings and operating
>covertly. Once we then start hearing reports of those future
>generation ufo crafts, we'll know that they too are outdated.
>It's a repetitious cycle.

>Remember the stealth fighters and bombers? We were hearing
>reports of these strange ufo crafts before the government finally
>unveiled them to the world. Notice how they are basically
>triangular in configuration also.

>If we're patient, and we really have no choice in the matter, we
>will then know the truth behind these strange triangular ufo
>craft also. My bet is they are HIGHLY advanced military aircraft,
>developed through the use of extraterrestrial technology, that we
>have been unknowingly supporting with our tax dollars through our
>governments black budget programs. Is it really any wonder why we
>work for almost the first five months of each year only to hand
>over our hard earned dollars to the government. They're ours, we
>just don't know it yet.

<snip>

Mark, that will do for me either way it would be confirmation
that we are being visited by ET's of unknown origin.

As to have recovered ET tecnology to build triangles we must
have based it on the original design, therefore the triangles we
are seeing could be both, as I suggested to Mr Mathews but as
usual every one else is a "idiot" according to Mr Mathews if
they disagree with his opinion.

That statement itself is not unusual when ego's are at war.

Max Burns






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                            Alfred's Odd Ode #256

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 07:36:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 10:38:58 -0400
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #256

Apology to MW #256 (For July 15, 1998)

I thank fate for boundless energy, and the Army for the rest; though I'm
likely called I bite the hand that feeds me. Nothing's further from the
truth, I am humble, un-aloof, but insisting on a freedom I have _earned_
so let me be! I'd _be_ just what you want me. But it's got to be my way.
The smallest price I'm asking is the wage that you should pay.  You want
me in there fighting righteous battles in your fray? Then give it to me
real, cousin! Eschew pretension -- false display!

Give it me straight, _paid_ leader, though my heart explodes my chest!
Give it to me level though I fail every test. Give it to me honest though
my pillars fall with rust, though I _lose_ it all -- this new world, and
I end as dry as dust.

Give it with veracity though I tear _your_ towers down! Give it with
alacrity though _you_ end up goat or clown. Give it and be forthright,
give it or be damned, give it though your vaults clean out, and you're
driven from this land!

Give even if it hurts, good friend, it's what you've asked of me. Give it
cause I've paid my end, it's your turn now, you see. Give it up in better
time, dark man, give it up while you can pay. Be a hero in our history,
or be the convict on display!

On Mars it's frankly obvious, and the moon is secret still. Why scramble
all the video? Why does NASA feed us swill? Why do we waste a farthing on
an organ filled with blood, when the melting of our icecaps has the
oceans rage and flood? Our skies are filled with colored light not made
by those on earth? An interest in the sex lives of the _famous_ is its
dearth! The pyramids are piled upon the secrets of the ages? Yet we
endure mere tabloids spewing Willy's boffing pages!

Our Shuttles filmed _*amazing*_stuff on 48 and 80, but Springer's show is
all the rage, what's happened to us lately?  I see them in the stark blue
skies, they drift before excited eyes like tiny dots too fast and sly, or
way to slow, and closer, why? They don't appear just me it seems, there
are others standing 'round in dreams, reality's, for them, obscene, "It
must be *us*", they bleat with steam.

We don't want foundation rattled, though it's built up in the air. We'd
_keep_ the lies constructed to beguile us, mon frere. It's safer to deny
the skies, and pretend *creations crown*, or to suffer gods that *love*
us -- keep us stupid, keep us down. Anything you'd make me do will _not_
get done your way. Give it up you gods and devils, or give out, and go
away.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

. . .Which was, of course, the theme of Babylon 5 until its denouement --
shortly after Sheridan assumes a federation presidency, but I digress.

"Who are you"?

"What do you want"?

Restoring  John Ford answers both questions.

Restore John Ford!


--
Explore the Alien View? <Updated 10 July>

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake.








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   Jul > Jul 15

                  Re: Bormann Demystifies Gemini 7 UFO Myth

From: Marie Ivey <jmi@aretha.jax.org>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 08:43:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 10:40:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Bormann Demystifies Gemini 7 UFO Myth


>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 00:45:37 +0200
>Subject: Astronaut Frank Bormann Demystifies Gemini 7 UFO Myth
>
>Excerpt from an article "Flying the Gusmobile" about the Gemini
>missions. Published on the site of "Air and Space" magazine
>July 14.
>
>URL:
>
>http://www.airspacemag.com:80/ASM/Mag/Index/1998/AS/ftgm.html
>
>Stig

><snip>

>Well, a lot of the UFO freaks on the ground picked this up and said
>we had seen a UFO because we had referred to our booster as a bogey.

><snip>


Don't you all love to be called a UFO freak by a National Hero?
Shame on him. JMI







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                     Cops Probe Origin of Aussie Drawing

From: Rebecca <RSchatte@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:20:22 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 10:50:17 -0400
Subject: Cops Probe Origin of Aussie Drawing

From: AOLNews@aol.com
Subject: Cops Probe Origin of Aussie Drawing
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 04:16:58 EDT

Cops Probe Origin of Aussie Drawing

.c The Associated Press

 SYDNEY, Australia (AP) - Police are investigating the origins
of a massive drawing of what appears to be an Aboriginal hunter
etched into a remote patch of desert in outback Australia.

No one so far has claimed responsibility for the 2.5 mile-long
figure carved into the dust near Finniss Springs in northern
South Australia state.

Residents from the nearby township of Maree believe the figure
was created using a plow, possibly drawn by a tractor, although
there are no signs of a tractor's wheel marks.

From the air, the outline resembles an Aboriginal man holding a
spear. The Australian newspaper reported today that it is five
times the size of the largest human drawing at Nazca, Peru -
where pictures of a monkey, lizard, a spider and other animals
are believed to have been drawn by the Nazca Indians sometime in
the years 300-600.

Local resident Ray Goss told the newspaper he and a group of
friends found the ground etching after anonymous directions were
faxed to the Marree hotel last week.

The state Aboriginal Affairs Department said today it had sent
officials to investigate.

Policeman Paul Liersch said the drawing may be an attempt to
create a tourist attraction, and ruled out any extraterrestrial
involvement.

"I found toilet paper out there so, if it has been done from
space, they're fairly much like us," Liersch told The
Australian.

AP-NY-07-15-98 0414EDT





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                    Re: A Remark By Eshleman On PBS Radio

From: Sheree Cox <cox@mcmail.CIS.McMaster.CA>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:44:43 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 11:01:40 -0400
Subject: Re: A Remark By Eshleman On PBS Radio


>From: Melanie Mecca <natural.state@erols.com>
>Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 18:23:39 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: A Remark By Eshleman On PBS Radio

>>Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 12:47:56 -0400
>>From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: A Remark By Eshleman On PBS Radio
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>I guess the problem is that there hasn't been an event where
>>independent newsmedia have multiply recorded (as well as
>>multiply witnessed) something as definitive as an "Independence
>>Day" type saucer (not necessarily as large as 15 miles in
>>diameter, of course. Thirty feet wuld be large enough, thank
>>you.)

>What about the CNN daylight filming in San Jose, Costa Rica a few
>months ago?  Anyone seen hide or hair of that? Further, slightly
>related, what about that daylight photo over Lake Arenal of the
>large metal saucer entering or leaving the lake, taken by the
>mapping expedition? Any due diligence ever done on that image?

> Melanie

Hi everybody,

I don't usually participate in all of the 'conversations'; I'm
really just a novice at all of this UFO business,  but I would
like to comment on this.

It seems that there's quite a few videos taken by media,
such as the above by CNN or the mapping expedition.

If its a reputable organization that is filming these UFO's
coupled with other reputable people making claims (such as
astronauts) wouldnt this be enough to make it all worthy  of
SOME sort of investigation or at least enough for some officials
to sit up and take note.

Or maybe I'm such a novice at this, that I'm totally naive.

Sorry folks, I just find it difficult to understand.

Is there that much of a conspiracy going on that evidence is
squashed - or are some people so afraid of ridicule?


S.









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   Jul > Jul 15

                        Triangular UFOs over Belgium

From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" <skytracker@geocities.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 11:05:29 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 14:54:20 -0400
Subject: Triangular UFOs over Belgium

I am new to this list, so if someone has already speculated
on this, forgive me.

I was reading about the triangular UFO's sighted over Belgium
between 1989 and 1991. One particular report mentions a large,
triangular shaped UFO hovering at a total stop, and then
'distorting' as if it were viewed under wave filled water, and
the three white lights that were on each corner of the triangle
converging into a single small light. The structure of the craft
vansihed, leaving only the converged light. This light then shot
off toward the sky at very high velocity.

At around the same general time, a Belgian F-16 was dispatched
to investigate one of these craft. The radar indicated that the
object being pursued had a speed of about 770 knots, slowed to
0 knots, and then accelerated to 990 knots in about one second.
Such acceleration is not possible with current aircraft
technology.

These two cases with the same type of craft display the
following:

1. 'Distortion' of the vehicle before flying off at high speed

2. Extremely high acceleration curves

I think that one possible explanation might be that these craft
do not use a normal type of propulsion system, but something
like a 'field drive' that bends light around the object, making
it appear to distort into a small point, and allowing an object
to accelerate at a high rate while feeling no onboard
acceleration. Similar to Miguel Alcubierre's 'warp drive'.

Just a thought.
Kyle R. Mcallister






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                      Re: A New Prescription for Hubble

From: Mark LeCuyer <randydan@wavetech.net>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 12:58:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 14:56:53 -0400
Subject: Re: A New Prescription for Hubble


Source: Popular Science
A New Prescription for Hubble
by Arthur Fisher

The Hubble Space Telescope was plagued by fuzzy vision when it was
first launched in April 1990, but it was fixed in a daring manned
rescue mission to install corrective optics-"eyeglasses"-for its
myopic instruments. Ever since, it has returned dazzling pictures
that have provided new insights into the workings of the universe.
Now, Hubble is about to undergo another service visit, one intended
to enhance the $3 billion telescope's already stellar performance by
a factor of 100.

Scheduled for February 13, the mission-managed by NASA's Goddard
Space Flight Institute-will bring a seven-astronaut space-shuttle
crew to a rendezvous with Hubble in orbit some 500 kilometers above
Earth. The astronauts will snatch Hubble with the shuttle's
manipulator arm and park it in the shuttle's bay. Then, they will
remove two of Hubble's astronomical instruments and replace them with
two unwieldy new instruments the size of telephone booths. One weighs
(on Earth) about 500 pounds, the other about 800 pounds, and both
have to be wrestled into Hubble's payload slots, which have
clearances of less than an inch.

Why mess with success? The new, state-of-the-art equipment will
enable Hubble to see objects and processes that have been beyond the
range of its original instruments, and will open new windows on the
universe. The two instruments that are being replaced are the Goddard
High Resolution Spectrograph and the Faint Object Spectrograph. (A
spectrograph separates light into the colors, or wavelengths of the
spectrum, that it contains.) The new instruments are the Space
Telescope Imaging Spectrograph (STIS) and the Near-Infrared Camera
and Multi-Object Spectrometer (NICMOS).

STIS will allow astrophysicists to ferret out characteristics of
heavenly objects, including their motion, makeup, and temperature.
Scientists are particularly eager to use its detectors to penetrate
the haze of dust thought to surround hypothetical black holes at the
centers of galaxies. STIS was developed for Goddard's Laboratory for
Astronomy and Solar Physics by Ball Aerospace of Boulder, Colorado.

Because infrared light is not filtered by the dust that blocks
visible light, NICMOS will be able to peer farther back in time-that
is, to a greater distance-than the optical and ultraviolet light
instruments now functioning on Hubble. Scientists hope the new
instrument will help solve some of the conundrums of modern
cosmology, such as the origin of galaxies. NICMOS was developed by
the University of Arizona with Ball Aerospace and the Rockwell
Electro-Optical Center in Anaheim, California.

Another servicing mission-to replace a 1970s-vintage computer with a
new one, among other things-will take place in 1999. And NASA is
already working on plans for a next-generation space telescope to be
launched in 2005, when the Hubble mission is scheduled to end.

-----

From: Mark - Alien Astronomer
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583







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                             Re: Sturrock Panel

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 10:42:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 14:44:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Sturrock Panel


> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 23:58:50 -0400
> From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Sturrock Panel
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> Regarding...

> >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Sturrock Panel
> >Date: Sun, 05 Jul 98 09:54:18 PDT

> Jerry wrote:

> >The Sturrock panel got to listen to some of the best evidence from
> >some of the best UFO investigators and researchers alive today.

> As you appreciate, that's a subjective opinion, especially on
> what constitutes 'best evidence'.

> However, if this was a 'best shot', isn't it a damning
> indictment of the 'extraterrestrial hypothesis' when Prof.
> Sturrock writes:

> "Concerning the case material presented by the investigators,
> the panel concluded that a few reported incidents may have
> involved rare but significant phenomena such as electrical
> activity, but there was no convincing evidence pointing to
> unknown physical processes or to the involvement of
> extraterrestrial intelligence".

[I've also posted this to the Project 1947 list.]

James,

Quite frankly, you're talking nonsense. I suspect you've only read
media accounts of the Sturrock panel, and haven't read the complete
report.

Or if you've read it, you haven't grasped what you've read. You may
draw any conclusions you like, but the scientists on the panel don't
agree with you.

Here are some relevant excerpts:

First, from Sturrock's introduction, clearly setting forth the
purposes and limitations of the study you are misrepresenting:

"[T]he fact is that physical scientists cannot get involved in
the UFO problem unless there is physical evidence. The purpose of
this workshop was to assess whether or not there is any such
evidence. If the answer is no, then there is no way that physical
scientists can contribute to the resolution of this problem. If,
on the other hand, the answer is yes, then it should be possible
for physical scientists to contribute to the resolution of this
problem.

"It should perhaps be stressed that it would be unreasonable to
ask a panel of nine scientists, meeting for only a few days, to
do much more than make a preliminary assessment of some limited
category of evidence related to this complex and controversial
topic. It would certainly be highly unreasonable to expect such
a panel to solve, in only a few days, a problem that has
remained unsolved for fifty years. Science advances by the
development of an informed consensus on well defined questions
(see, for instance, Ziman, 1968), but scientists can arrive at
an informed consensus only if (1) sufficient research has been
carried out, and (2) the results of that research have been
presented to and evaluated by the scientific community. For the
UFO problem, these first  two essential steps have yet to be
taken."

>From Eshelman's summary of the panel's work and conclusions:

"The participants addressed the problem of understanding the
cause or causes of UFO reports, which have continued worldwide
for at least 50 years. The investigators were asked to present
their strongest data to the review panel. The thrust of these
presentations was that at least some of the phenomena are not
easily explainable. The panel focused on incidents involving
some form of physical evidence, with clear recognition of the
dangers of relying wholly on the testimony of witnesses and of
the importance of physical measurements for distinguishing among
hypotheses.

"It may be valuable to carefully evaluate UFO reports to extract
information about unusual phenomena currently unknown to
science. However, to be credible to the scientific community,
such evaluations must take place with a spirit of objectivity
and a willingness to evaluate rival hypotheses. "

And:

"The panel concluded that further analysis of the evidence
presented at the workshop is unlikely to elucidate the cause or
causes of the reports. However, the panel considers that new
data, scientifically acquired and analyzed (especially of well
documented, recurrent events), could yield useful information.
In this case, physical scientists would have an opportunity to
contribute to the resolution of the UFO problem."

Note this phrase: "further analysis of the evidence presented at
the workshop." In other words, a certain limited amount of data
was presented at the workshop, from which preliminary
conclusions were drawn. One conclusion was in the phrase you've
quotated ad nauseum: "The review panel was not convinced that
any of the evidence involved currently unknown physical
processes or pointed to the involvement of an extraterrestrial
intelligence."

That refers only to the evidence presented to the workshop. The
panel concluded -- precisely in the spirit of Sturrock's
introduction -- that much more study is needed, because nothing
more can be determined from the evidence presented at the
workshop. Only after far more study of much more data can any
conclusions be drawn -- and "rival hypotheses" be evaluated.

Note once more that the entire thrust of the report is on the
need for further study. The purpose of the workshop was not to
evaluate rival hypotheses. It was to determine whether further
study was needed. The answer to that question, in the panel's
opinion, was "yes." When further study is, in fact, implemented
(according to detailed suggestions appended at the end), then,
quoting once more:

"Such evaluations must take place with a spirit of objectivity
and a willingness to evaluate rival hypotheses. "

Note also the following, from Sturrock's recommendations for
implementation of the panel's findings:

"The UFO problem is very complex and it is quite impossible to
predict what might emerge from research into this area. But the
same is true of any really innovative and exciting area of
scientific research. As the panel remarked "Whenever there are
unexplained observations, there is the possibility that
scientists will learn something new by studying those
observations." What is learned may bear no relation to the
concepts that were entertained when the research was undertaken.
We venture to hope that more scientists will take an interest in
this curious subject so that there will be more progress in the
second half century than there has been in the first half
century. There could hardly be less"

Note this phrase: ""It is quite impossible to predict what might
emerge from research into this area."

The ETH is not excluded.

(Thanks to Jean-Luc Rivera, who downloaded the separate parts of
the report, combined them into a single file, and kindly
e-mailed it to me.)

Greg Sandow







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               Re: CE: Open Letter to The Cincinnati Enquirer

From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 11:25:26 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 14:48:30 -0400
Subject: Re: CE: Open Letter to The Cincinnati Enquirer


>Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 12:58:27 -0400
>From: Kenny Young <task@FUSE.NET>
>Subject: Open Letter to The Cincinnati Enquirer
>To: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

<snip>

>Our skies are full of misunderstanding, mystery, and yes,
>perhaps even conspiracy. The Cincinnati Enquirer would do well
>to conduct proper and objective reportage of such unusual
>happenings so that we may have an informed populace.

>Respectfully,

>KENNY YOUNG


Dear Kenny,

Just wanted to express my appreciation for people like you who
are willing to chide the media for less than objective and
factual reporting especially on such an important subject.

This sort of thing happens with deplorable frequency. A recent
TV program entitled "Unmasked: Exposing the Secrets of
Deception" comes to mind. One of the segments dealt with crop
circles. Now, this program was not really a news story, but it
contained glaring factual errors about the phenomenon, and
completely ignored it's more interesting aspects, such as the
undamaged (yet bent) plant stems or genetic anomalies found
within the plant matter. The only battle they chose to fight
(understandably so) was the claim by some that humans could not
create such elaborate and mathmatically precise formations in
darkness. To an extent they won. They sent a team of hoaxers out
to do their dirty work, although not in England (curious, that).
I think it was Brazil. They succeeded in producing a very
impressive and complex pattern. They cheated somewhat by using
the light of the full moon, however, and worked away from any
major roads. Naturally, the show's narrator declared the mystery
solved, even though we didn't hear from a single crop circle
researcher.

The subject has received similar treatment in most major media,
sadly. If I didn't know the details, I might buy it as well. The
point of my longwindedness is that the public needs to know the
DETAILS of such things. All too often, the skeptics and
debunkers have the last public word...which really needs to
stop, or we go nowhere.

Quite often, when the subject of UFOs or crop circles comes up,
I usually get the expected comments..."Oh, yeah those two guys
made all those crop circles" or " Those were just flares, I saw
it on TV". I always reply with "Well did you know about (add any
factual details) during that event?"

The response is usually "Really? No, I didn't know that!". It's
a pleasant feeling to know you've just given them something new
to think about. I just wish the media would get their facts in
order and be more objective. Should I hold my breath?

Keep up the good work Kenny,

Greg St. Pierre






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                  Re: Bormann Demystifies Gemini 7 UFO Myth

From: Kari Valimaa - Suomen Ufotutkijat ry. <suomen.ufotutkijat@kolumbus.fi>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 23:09:29 +0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 17:03:35 -0400
Subject: Re:  Bormann Demystifies Gemini 7 UFO Myth


>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 00:45:37 +0200
>Subject: Astronaut Frank Bormann Demystifies Gemini 7 UFO Myth

>Excerpt from an article "Flying the Gusmobile" about the Gemini
>missions. Published on the site of "Air and Space" magazine
>July 14.

>URL:

>http://www.airspacemag.com:80/ASM/Mag/Index/1998/AS/ftgm.html

>Stig

><snip>

Borman said that the bogey was their booster, but was it? The
conversation which took place between Gemini 7 and the ground
control at Houston (Condon Report pp. 207) reveals that
astronauts saw both the booster and the bogey at the same time.
So it is impossible that the booster was the bogey.

The following conversation took place between the spacecraft and
the ground control at Houston:

Spacecraft:    Gemini 7 here, Houston how do you read?

Capcom:        Loud and clear. 7, go ahead.

Spacecraft:    Bogey at 10 o�clock high.

Capcom:        This is Houston. Say again 7.

Spacecraft:    Said we have a bogey at 10 o�clock high.

Capcom:        Roger. Gemini 7, is that the booster or is that
               an actual sighting?

Spacecraft:    We have several, looks like debris up here.
               Actual sighting.

Capcom:        You have any more information? Estimate distance
               or size?

Spacecraft:    We also have the booster in sight.

Capcom:        Understand you also have the booster in sight,
               Roger.

Spacecraft:    Yea, we have a very, very many look like hundreds
               of little particles banked on the left out about 3
               to 7 miles.

Capcom:        Understand you have many small particles going by
               on the left. At what distance?

Spacecraft:    Oh about it looks like a path of the vehicle at
               90 degrees.

Capcom:        Roger, understand that they are about 3 to 4
               miles away.

Spacecraft:    They are passed now they are in polar orbit.

Capcom:        Roger, understand they were about 3 to 4 miles
               away.

Spacecraft:    That�s what it appeared like. That�s roger.

Capcom:        Were these particles in addition to the booster
               and the bogey at 10 o�clock high?

Spacecraft:    Roger Spacecraft (Lovell) I have the booster on
               my side, it�s a brilliant body in the sun, against
               a black background with trillions of particles on
               it.

Capcom:        Roger. What direction is it from you?
Spacecraft:    It�s about at my 2 o�clock position. (Lovell)
Capcom:        Does that mean that it�s ahead of you?
Spacecraft:    It�s ahead of us at 2 o�clock, slowly tumbling.


This mention is also from Condon Report, pp 207-208):

The general reconstruction of the sighting based on the above
conversation is that in addition to the booster travelling in an
orbit similar to that of the spacecraft there was another bright
object (bogey) together with many illuminated particles. It
might be conjectured that the bogey and the particles were
fragments from the launching of Gemini 7, but this is impossible
if they were travelling in a polar orbit as they appeared to the
astronauts to be doing.

Source: Condon, Edward (ed.), The Scientific Study of UFOs
(Bantam Press, 1969)

Kari Valimaa
kariv@usa.net









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                  Re: Bormann Demystifies Gemini 7 UFO Myth

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 17:10:13 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 21:04:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Bormann Demystifies Gemini 7 UFO Myth


On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote:

> From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 00:45:37 +0200
> Subject: Astronaut Frank Bormann Demystifies Gemini 7 UFO Myth

> <snip>

> At almost twice the length of Gemini 5, Commander Frank Borman's Gemini
> 7 mission may have been even more trying, but it grabbed the attention
> of at least one Hollywood producer.

> "Right after we got into orbit we were supposed to "station keep' or
> fly formation with the booster," Borman says. "We were flying formation
> and taking photographs and infrared measurements and I started calling
> it a "bogey,' which is an old fighter pilot term. Well, a lot of the
> UFO freaks on the ground picked this up and said we had seen a UFO
> because we had referred to our booster as a bogey. Just this past year
> I got a call from a producer at "Unsolved Mysteries" and they said, "We
> read your account about your seeing a UFO on Gemini 7 and would you
> come on the program?' I told them: "I'd love to come on your program
> because I'd love to straighten that out.' I explained what it was I saw
> and I said, "I don't think there were UFOs,' and the producer said,
> "Well, I'm not sure we want you on the program.' "

> <snip>


Seems to me that Frank Borman's recollection is in conflict with
what his fellow Gemini 7 astronaut, James Lovell, is quoted in
saying during the actual space mission.  James Lovell you may
recall was later the Commander of Apollo 8 which made the first
manned flight to the Moon in December 1968.  On that mission
James Lovell is also quoted as saying "Please be informed that
there is a Santa Claus"...

We find the following dialogue from the web site below.

http://www.anomalous-images.com/astronaut.html#Borman


Lovell:  Bogey at 10 o'clock.

Capcom:  This is Houston. Say again 7.

Lovell:  Said we have a bogey at 10 o'clock high.

Capcom:  Gemini 7, is that the booster or is that an actual
         sighting?

Lovell:  We have several...actual sightings.

Capcom:  ...estimated distance or size?

Lovell:  We also have the booster in sight...

Maybe the producer of "Unsolved Mysteries" should have contacted
James Lovell instead of Frank Borman regarding this bogey.

There is also a photograph with two ball shaped UFOs (possibly
reflections from a window since one would expect these UFOs to
be centered in the picture if one was taking a photo of them)
which is credited to Frank Borman at this same web site.

Can someone account for the dialogue with James Lovell and/or
UFO picture by Frank Borman?

Nick Balaskas










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                              More Foo-Fighters

From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 19:21:58 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 22:24:13 -0400
Subject: More Foo-Fighters

Further to the Foo-fighters.

I have looked through the Southeastern Command's Weekly Intelligence
Summaries and found a few accounts.  We recently got the 4th Air Force
Weekly Intelligence Summaries.  There were no reports there.  Research
on this is really slow going.

Gen H. H. (Hap) Arnold's papers listed reports from Dr. David T. Griggs.
Griggs claims he did a special study for Arnold.  However, that was not
in the papers.  I have talked to a number of WW II intelligence and
operations officers.  They remember these things in intelligence
documents.  Some remember day time sightings.  They also remember 8th
and 9th Air Forces special reports on these things.  I have found a
brief compilation of "Unusual Objects and Missile Sighted During
Operations."  A few of these 1943 items fit the foo-fighter catagory.

>From the Swedish Defense staff archives and from a town history come
some interesting reports.  Anders Liljegren and Clas Svahn found these
during their research.  So they were seen in neutral countries.

Best regards,

Jan
--
Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.iufog.org/project1947/
P. O. Box 391, Canterbury, CT 06331, USA
Telephone: (860) 546-9135






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   Jul > Jul 15

               Re: CE: Open Letter to The Cincinnati Enquirer

From: RobIrving@aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 21:37:49 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 22:27:42 -0400
Subject: Re: CE: Open Letter to The Cincinnati Enquirer


>  From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
>  Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 11:25:26 EDT
>  To: updates@globalserve.net
>  Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: CE: Open Letter to The Cincinnati Enquirer

Greg,

Re: crop circles <largely snipped>

>  bent stems, genetic changes..."Really? No, I didn't know that!". It's
>  a pleasant feeling to know you've just given them something new
>  to think about.

Like, I hope, many here I find it curious that no-one has addressed
James Easton's question as to whether such 'evidence' should be
presented to the Sturrock panel, or derivatives thereof, or just any
old reputable scientific outfit.

It's physical enough and one would think that it ought to have been
recorded properly. What, in your opinion, is the problem? Why has
it been ignored?

>  Brazil?

New Zealand -- there was no viable crop in England at the time of
filming.

Rob






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                     Foo Fighters - NY Times Jan 2 1945

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 03:07:11 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 21:36:06 -0400
Subject: Foo Fighters - NY Times Jan 2 1945


Posted to "alt.ufo.reports" July 15.

Stig

*******

Subject:      Foo-Fighters
From:         stoney@bga.com (stoney)
Date:         1998/07/15
Message-ID:   <35ac33e7.1309522@news.supernews.com>
Newsgroups:   alt.ufo.reports


This is my first time to visit this group, so forgive my
intrusion if "foo-fighters" have already been discussed to
death. I was doing research tonight on an unrelated matter that
took place in 1945 when I ran across the following article in
the 2 January 1945 New York Times, p. 1.  I am quoting it
verbatim:


Balls of Fire Stalk U.S. Fighters in Night Assaults Over Germany


[ Associated Press]


American Night Fighter Base, France, Jan. 1 --

The Germans have thrown something new into the night skies over
Germany -- the weird, mysterious "foo-fighter," balls of fire
that race alongside the wings of American Beaufighters flying
intruder missions over the Reich.

American pilots have been encountering the eerie "foo-fighter"
for more than a month in their night flights. No one apparently
knows exactly what this sky weapon is.

The balls of fire appear suddenly and accompany the planes for
miles. They appear to be radio-controlled from the ground and
keep up with planes flying 300 miles an hour, official
intelligence reports reveal. "There are three kinds of these
lights we call 'foo-fighters,'" Lieut. Donald Meiers of Chicago
said. "One is red balls of fire which appear off our wing tips
and fly along with us; the second is a vertical row of three
balls of fire which fly in front of us, and the third is a group
of about fifteen lights which appear off in the distance--like a
Christmas tree up in the air--and flicker on and off."

The pilots of this night-fighter squadron--in operation since
September, 1943--find these fiery balls the weirdest thing that
they have yet encountered. They are convinced that the
"foo-fighter" is designed to be a psychological as well as a
military weapon, although it is not the nature of the fire-balls
to attack planes.

"A 'foo-fighter' picked me up recently at 700 feet and chased me
twenty miles down the Rhine Valley," Lt. Meiers said. "I turned
to starboard and two balls of fire turned with me. I turned to
the port side and they turned with me. We were going 260 miles
an hour and the balls were keeping right up with us."

"On another occasion when a 'foo-fighter' picked us up, I dove
at 360 miles per hour. It kept right off our wing tips for
awhile and then zoomed up into the sky.

"When I first saw the things off my wing tips, I had the
horrible thought that a German on the ground was ready to press
a button and explode them. But they don't explode or attack us.
They just seem to follow us like will-o'-the-wisps."

[An Associated Press report from Paris on Dec. 13 said that the
Germans had thrown silvery balls into the air against day
raiders. Pilots then reported that they had seen these objects,
both individually and in clusters, during forays over Germany.]

Lt. Wallace Gould of Silver Creek, NY said that the lights had
followed his wing tips for a while and then, in a few seconds,
zoomed 20,000 feet into the air out of sight. Lt. Edward
Schlater of Oshkosh, Wisconsin, said that he had seen the
"foo-fighter" on two occasions and it "looked like shooting
stars." In his first experience with them, Lt. Gould said, "I
thought it was some new form of jet-propulsion plane after us.
But we were very close to them and none of us saw any structure
on the fire balls."

Can someone clarify what these things are, or should I begin
believing in UFOs after all? 1945? Who on earth had such
capabilities? I look forward to your public responses. Your
combined knowledge should create an intriguing discussion.






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                         P1947: Foo Fighter Question

From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 19:06:07 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 22:23:20 -0400
Subject: P1947: Foo Fighter Question

David <win@WRITER.WIN-UK.NET> wrote:

> I wonder if anyone can help - Is it known whether any German pilots
> reported being apparently tailed by these Foo Fighters or did they just
> 'follow' US and UK a/c ?

> I'd be grateful for any comments, as I haven't seen this very basic
> question answered...maybe I'm looking in the wrong places...

> Best

> David


Hi David,

There are a number of German pilot reports out there which are
very dubious as there sources are unreliable.  Also, H. Durant
made up the Sonder Buro hoax as a way to catch people poaching
from his book.  It was not ufology's finest hour.  (Just one more
stupid incident in the legion that makes me believe that
ufologists are the main problem in studying UFOs.)

I do have a report from a German submarine captain during the
war. There are some retrospective reports from various German,
Japanese, and Axis subjects, but no reliable one's from pilots
unless Werner or others can correct me.

David Griggs told Dr. McDonald that he asked the Japanese to look
at their records and got a negative answer from them.  However,
Jo Chamberlin who wrote the "Foo-Fighter" article in American
Legion magazine claims that we found 'Foo-Fighter" accounts in
both German and Japanese documents.  He refused to talk to
Lindell about this as he said his information came from
classified documents and he had been visited by counter
intelligence after the article appeared.  I guess they put the
fear of God into him.  When I attempted to contact him, he had
had a stroke.  His wife thought that 50 year records still being
classified was a joke and promised to look for me.  However, she
probably has her hands full so I am not expecting an answer.

Best regards,

Jan

-
Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.iufog.org/project1947/
P. O. Box 391, Canterbury, CT 06331, USA
Telephone: (860) 546-9135









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                             Re: Sturrock Panel

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 23:25:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 23:40:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Sturrock Panel

> From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
> To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Sturrock Panel
> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 10:42:24 -0400

> Note once more that the entire thrust of the report is on the
> need for further study. The purpose of the workshop was not to
> evaluate rival hypotheses. It was to determine whether further
> study was needed. The answer to that question, in the panel's
> opinion, was "yes."

And rightly so. We all have seen what happened to the Condon
Committee, which couldn't resist the temptation to attempt to
prove MHH (misperception, hoax, hallucination hypothesis),
following in the well-trodden footsteps of the Air Force.

BTW, some people are of the opinion that Condon's people tried
to prove ETH. That is not accurate, even though Saunders would
have liked it. What happened was that, in lieu of determining
appropriate discriminators for ETH, the committee decided to try
to prove that UFOs were MHH, and if they failed, they might
conclude that ETH was proven.

This is, of course, flawed. Not least by the fact that Condon
was never going to admit even the OEH (objective existence
hypothesis), despite the failure of the committee to identify
more than a quarter of the cases which they examined. But
further, because disproving MHH, which has been more than
adequately done by the AF, is not proof of anything more than
OEH.

Sturrock's panel summary seems contradictory. On the one hand,
they conclude that

"It may be valuable to carefully evaluate UFO reports to extract
information about unusual phenomena currently unknown to
science."

but then

"The review panel was not convinced that any of the evidence
involved currently unknown physical processes or pointed to the
involvement of an extraterrestrial intelligence."

It is difficult to understand how they came to the first
conclusion in light of the second. But I'm glad they didn't take
any specific focus on any specific hypothesis.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/library.htm
------







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                             UFOs and Power Loss

From: Moderator UFO UpDates
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 01:00:57 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 01:00:57 -0400
Subject: UFOs and Power Loss

File Name: BLKOUT65.TXT

 Key date: 01-15-96
 Keyed by: Errol Bruce-Knapp - UFO UpDates Toronto.

Excerpted from:

UFO Sightings, Landings and Abductions - The Documented Evidence
by
Yurko Bondarchuk

Published by: Methuen Publications, Toronto, 1979
ISBN 0-458-94160-3

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From Chapter 9 - The E.M. Effect and Power Blackouts

(pages 130 - 137)

The Great Northeast Blackout
November 9, 1965

On November 9, 1995 the northeastern region of the United States and
Canada was abruptly plunged into blackness. The worst blackout on
record came to be known as the 'Big Blackout'.

The facts are well known. At 5:16 pm, at the height of the evening rush
hour, electrical power to one-sixth of the continent's population was
suddenly cut off, trapping millions of people on expressways, in
elevators and in office buildings. Altogether, thirty million people
in eight U.S. states and in the province of Ontario were affected by
the disruption (1)

In Ontario the blackout was confined to the eastern portion of the
province - from Timmins in the north, across to Cornwall in the east
and south toward Sarnia. Windsor, Ottawa and Sudbury were the only
eastern centres to escape the blackout.(2) Yet within three hours
power was restored to most parts of the province.

Mass media coverage naturally focussed on the human aspect of the
blackout and to a lesser extent, on the delay in determining the cause
of the breakdown.

There was, however, an even more dramatic story.

UFOs had been reported in the vicinity of strategic hydro
installations at the time of the blackout. The impressive number of
credible sightings led many researchers to consider the possible role
these craft may have played in the power collapse.

The researchers included the late Dr. James E. MacDonald,(3) a
physicist at the University of Arizona; former NICAP director Major
Donald E. Keyhoe; and astronomer Dr. J. Allen Hynek, the current
director of the Centre for UFO Studies.

Immediately following the breakdown, the U.S. Federal Power Commission
and the Ontario Hydro-Electric Power Commission launched a full-scale
investigation into the cause. At first, it was reported that the
trouble originated with a mechanical breakdown in a high voltage line
between Buffalo and Niagara Falls.

According to the [Toronto] 'Globe and Mail':

     The report turned out to be false. Then a sub-station near
     Syracuse was reported to be the cause of the failure, but
     repairmen found it in perfect condition. (4)

Finallly, six days after the blackout, Ontario Hydro engineers traced
the trouble to the mammoth Sir Adam Beck No.2 Generating Station at
Queenston, Ontariom north of Niagra Falls.

It seems that just prior to the blackout, power was flowing from Sir
Adam Beck No.2. into Ontario, then across the border via Cornwall into
New York State. In graphic terms, power was flowing clockwise in a
loop around Lake Ontario.

At 5:16pm, a backup relay on one of the six lines linking Sir Adam
Beck tothe rest of the province mysteriously tripped the line's
circuit breaker, which acts much like a household fuse.

In quick succession the cut-off power jumped to the other five lines,
causing an overload that tripped the circuit breakers on these lines
as well.

A veritable tidal wave of electricity - 1.1 million kilowatts - flowed
in the opposite direction into New York State. (5) Inexplicably, the
relays on the New York lines failed to isolate and contain the
overload. Within seconds, the entire grid of thirty-one interconnected
power utilities of CANUSE (Canada-United States Eastern Grid) had
broken down.

Although experts could pinpoint the origin of the blackout, they were
baffled by the cause of the relay malfunction and the failure of the
protective systems to contain the overload.

In the words of Ontario Hydro's system supervising engineer, Jim
Harris: "It's incredible! I would have said this was impossible if I
hadn't seen the evidence." (6)

The mystery deepened when it was discovered that the relay had not in
fact malfunctioned, but had merely reacted to a sudden surge of power
from an unknown source.

As stated in the final report of the U.S. Federal Power Commission:
"The precise cause of the backup relay energization is now known." (7)
Where did the unexplained surge of power come from? To this day that
question has remained unanswered.

Or has it?

Although inconclusive, one answer might lie in the findings of the
late Dr. James McDonald who contended that the magnetic fields
accompanying UFOs can create sudden power surges in transmission lines
as the craft flies overhead.(8)  In theory, these power surges could
produce blackouts of massive proportions.

Since the 'Big Blackout', McDonald's theory has gained considerable
support in the light of strong evidence confirming widespread UFO
activity on that fateful evening.

The Syracuse Herald-Journal was inundated with calls reporting more
than one hundred sightings in the Syracuse area.

One of the first came from Syracuse Deputy Aviation Commissioner,
Robert C. Walsh, who was flying over Syracuse at the time of the
blackout.(9) Despite the darkness, he managed to land safely at
Hancock Airport.

Standing on the runway, with some airport officials he suddenly
noticed an enormous circular ball of light, drifting overhead. "It
appeared to be one hundred feet in the air and fifty feet in
diameter.(10) It rose for several seconds, then suddenly disappeared.
Moments later, a bewildered Walsh and his companions watched an
identical device ascending over the airfieldm before mysteriously
'blinking out', as did its predecessor. Unlike the known high-speed
plunges of fireballs, these craft moved upward at moderate speed -
clearly under some form of intelligent control.

At the same time, the mysterious craft were also being observed
overhead. Veteran flight instructor Weldon Ross and his student, James
Brooking, were approaching the darkened airport when they spotted a
second fiery object below.

The Giant craft, estimated at well over one hundred feet in diameter,
appeared to be positioned directly over the Clay sub-station, a
strategic installation that channels power from Niagara Falls to New
York City.(11)

It was the same sub-station where hydro investigating teams had
initially pinpointed the origin of the blackout.

In a relentless pursuit of a possible UFO-blackout relationship,
Herald-Journal reporters succeeded in uncovering even more explosive
evidence. In a front page story seven days after the blackout, the
paper carried photographs of the mysterious red craft taken by Mr.
William Stillwell, a sexton at St. Paul's Episcopal Church. He
described what he had observed through a 117-power telescope:

     The centre was rotating, around and around and around. It
     came from the direction of DeWitt and shot off at an angle
     and then went back the way it came. (12)

He had watched the glowing object for as long as two hours before it
streaked away.

While investigating teams continued to dig for the mysterious cause of
the power failure, press coverage of a possible UFO connection gained
momentum.

In a strongly worded editorial, the Indianapolis Star urged:

     The answer is fairly obvious - unidentified flying objects!
     It is one angle the multi-pronged investigation should not
     overlook.(13)

Support for the UFO possibility intensified as news of other sightings
became known. In New York City, twenty minutes into the blackout,
witnesses in the Time-Life Building spotted a peculiar glow in the sky
over darkened Manhattan. According to Major Donald Keyhoe:

     It appeared to come from a round object hovering over the
     city. This was tewenty minutes after the lights began to
     go out. Several photographs were taken by a Time Magazine
     photographer, one of which appeared in the November 19th
     issue. (14)

Although clearly visible in the photograph reproduced here, Time
editors failed to make any reference in their photo-caption to the
spindle-shaped craft. Journalistic oversight or deliberate omission?
The only hit of any unusual aerial activity came in a facetious
reference to a Soviet satellite:

     Some New Yorkers, claiming that they had seen a satellite
     pass over at the moment the lights failed, argued that the
     Russians had done it again. (15)

But UFO investigator and author, the late Frank Edwards disagrees with
both the UFO and the Soviet satellite explanations:

     The spindle-shaped thing could have been a UFO--but it
     certainly wasn't. It was nothing more than an optical
     ghost, the result of reflections between the elements
     of an air-spaced lens.(16)

While disputing the validityof the Time photo, Edwards strongly
supported the contention the UFOs were somehow involved in activating
the blackout. In fact, while conducting his own investigation into the
cause of the blackout he discovered that U.S. military authorities had
been well aware of the UFO presence, at least forty-five minutes prior
to the power failure.(17)

This startling disclosure came from two commercial pilots, Jerry
Whitaker and George Croninger, who were flying over Tidioute,
Pennsylvania, when they spotted two disc-shaped 'shiny objects'
overhead.

Even more surprising was the sight of two military jets chasing the
mysterious craft.

Moments later, one of the discs put on a 'burst of speed' and quickly
outdistanced its pursuers. While watching the fast-disappearing UFO,
the dazed pilots lost sight of the other object, which had presumably
departed in the same manner.

The most spectacular UFO revelation, however, came one day prior to
the releae of the 'official' explanation when, speaking before a
nationwide televison audience, NBC commentator Frank McGee announced
that a private pilot had spotted a "round, glowing object near the
Niagra Falls power plant".(18)

Associated Press picked up the story and numerous newspapers
subsequently carried it. The following morning, a well-documented
article appeared in the New York Journal American blaming UFOs for the
disastrous power-grid breakdown.

Any further media focus on the UFO connection was brought to an abrupt
halt, however, with the release of the 'broken relay' explanation.

Despite mounting evidence, the Federal Power Commission had
predictably chosen to side-step the possible UFO connection. This
ommission was eventually confirmed by Dr. James E. McDonald who, as a
respected scientist, was allowed to interview certain FPC officials.

     They admitted they had the Syracuse and Niagara Falls
     reports, also most of the others on that night. But
     they wouldn't discuss the UFO possibility....No matter
     what they believed, I think they were convinced the
     facts shouldn't be given tothe public, and that's why
     they agreed to the 'broken relay' story. At any rate,
     _it_was_obvious_they_were_covering_up_.(19)

Under the circumstances there seems to be a strong possibility that
Canadian authorities were also involved in the cover-up. Ontario
Hydro-Electric Power Commission investigators, having become aware of
the UFO reports, collaborated with the FPC by exchanging information
that eventually led to the 'broken relay' explanation.(20)

Furthermore, this explanation had apparently been pre-arranged and was
released simultaneously in both countries.(21)

The Ontario Hydro press statement similarly neglected to include UFOs
as the possible cause for the blackout.

One reputable American ufologist went so far as to point an accusing
finger at the late Lester B. Pearson, then prime minister. Major
Donald Keyhoe contends that:

     To shift attention from the UFO explanation, the
     'broken relay' story was invented. Since this could
     be construed as blaming Canada, the Prime Minister
     must have been convinced it was best for both countries
     not to disclose the true situation.(22)

It that was the case, then it represents one of the most shocking
deceptions ever perpetrated - leaving the heads of thirty-one utility
companies and thirty million people to grope around in the dark in
more ways than one!

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

 (1) Time Magazine (November 19, 1965) Canadian Edition, p.24.

 (2) Ibid. p.23B.

 (3) John G. Fuller, 'Aliens in the Skies: The New UFO Battle of the
     Scientists' (New York: G.P. Putnam and Sons, 1969), p.85.

 (4) Toronto Globe and Mail, November 16, 1965.

 (5) Ibid.

 (6) Ontario Hydro, Hydroscope, Vol. 2. No. 40 (November 19, 1965)
     p.2.

 (7) James M. McCampbell, 'Ufology: New Insights from Science and
     Common Sense' (Belmont, Ca.: Jaymac Company, 1973), p. 57.

 (8) James E. McDonald, Statement prepared for the Hearings before A
     Committee of the U.S. Federal Power Commission.

 (9) Frank Edwards, 'Flying Saucers: Serious Business' (New York:
     Bantam Books, 1966), p. 147.

(10) Ibid.

(11) Donald E, Keyhoe, 'Aliens From Space' (Toronto: The New American
     Library of Canada Limited, 1973), p. 172.

(12) Frank Edwards, op. cit., p. 148.

(13) Donald E. Keyhoe, op., cit. p. 176.

(14) Ibid. p. 172.

(15) Time Magazine, op. cit., p. 28A.

(16) Frank Edwards, op. cit., p. 149.

(17) Ibid.

(18) Donald E. Keyhoe, op. cit., p. 177.

(19) Ibid., p. 182.

(20) Toronto Globe and Mail, op. cit.

(21) Ibid.

(22) Donald E. Keyhoe, op. cit., p. 180.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

EOF





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   Jul > Jul 16

                             P1947: NY Blackout

From: Francis Ridge <slk@EVANSVILLE.NET>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 10:14:15 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 01:04:51 -0400
Subject: P1947: NY Blackout

Re: New York blackout/great NE power grid failure
    [November 9, 1965]

Hi Folks,

Here's the portion of the Dr. James E. McDonald statement,
excerpted from testimony before the House Committee on Science &
Astronautics, July 29, 1968.

I will be posting a UFO vs. Outages graph later this morning.
[http://www.evansville.net/~slk/blackout.htm]

Francis Ridge NICAP Site Coordinator

--------

Mr. Ryan: Let me ask a further question: In the course of your
investigation and your study of UFO sightings, have you found
any cases where contemporaneously with the sighting of UFO's
allegedly, there were any other events which took place, which
might or might not be related to the UFO's?

Dr. McDonald. Yes. Certainly there are many physical effects.
For instance, in Mr. Pettis' district, several people found the
fillings in their mouth hurting while this object was nearby,
but there are car ignition failure. One famous case was at
Levelland, Tex., in 1957. Ten vehicles were stopped within a
short area, all independently in a 2-hour period, near
Levelland, Tex. There was no lightning or thunder storm, and
only a trace of rain. There is another which I don't know
whether to bring to the committee's attention or not. The
evidence is not as conclusive as the car stopping phenomenon,
hut there are too many instances for me to ignore. UFO's have
often been seen hovering near power facilities. There are a
small number but still a little too many to seem pure fortuitous
chance, of system outages, coincident with the UFO sighting. One
of the cases was Tamaroa, Ill. Another was a case in
Shelbyville, Ky., early last year.

(here we go)

Even the famous one, the New York blackout, involved UFO
sightings. Dr. Hynek probably would be the most appropriate man
to describe the Manhattan sighting, since he interviewed several
witnesses involved. I interviewed a woman in Seacliff, N.Y. She
saw a disk hovering and going up and down. And then shooting
away from New York just after the power failure. I went to the
FPC for data, they didn't take them seriously although they had
many dozens of sighting reports for that famous evening. There
were reports all over New England in the midst of that blackout,
and five witnesses near Syracuse, N.Y., saw a glowing object
ascending within about a minute of the blackout. First they
thought it was a dump burning right at the moment the lights
went out. It is rather puzzling that the pulse of current that
tripped the relay at the Ontario Hydro Commission plant has
never been identified, but initially the tentative suspicion was
centered on the Clay Substation of the Niagara Mohawk network
right there in the Syracuse area, where unidentified aerial
phenomenon has been seen by some of the witnesses.

This extends down to the limit of single houses losing their
power when a UFO is near. The hypothesis in the case of car
stopping is that there might be high magnetic fields, d.c.
fields, which saturate the core and thus prevent the pulses
going through the system to the other side. Just how a UFO could
trigger an outage on a large power network is however not yet
clear. But this is a disturbing series of coincidences that I
think warrant much more attention than they have so far
received.

Mr. Ryan. As far as you know, has any agency investigated the
New York blackout in relation to UFO?

Dr. McDonald. None at all. when I spoke to the FPC people, I was
dissatisfied with the amount of information I could gain. I am
saying there is a puzzling and slightly disturbing coincidence
here. I'm not going on record as saying, yes, these are
clear-cut cause and effect relations. I'm saying it ought to be
looked at. There is no one looking at this relation between
UFO's and outages.

Mr. Roush: Our time is really running short, Mr. Ryan.

Mr. Ryan: One final question. Do you think it is imperative that
the Federal Power Conmussion, or Federal Communications
Commission, investigate the relation if any between the
sightings and the blackout?

Dr. McDonald: My position would call for a somewhat weaker
adjective. I'd say extremely desirable.

Mr. Roush: Thank you. Thank you, Dr. McDonald.


(Dr. McDonald's testimony is noteworthy because of its
directness and force. He considers the extraterrestrial
hypothesis the most likely explanation of the phenomena. On
examining the best UFO evidence, it is certainly possible to
rule out practically every other hypothesis, and it is on this
basis that Dr. McDonald and others lean toward the theory that
we are undergoing surveillance from intelligently guided craft
from extraterrestrial sources.)






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                   Re: Foo Fighters - NY Times Jan 2 1945

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 06:39:36 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 01:12:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Foo Fighters - NY Times Jan 2 1945

Follow-up from "alt.ufo.reports" July 15.

Stig

*******

Subject:      Re: Foo-Fighters
From:         John R Nickolls <john_nickolls@bigfoot.com>
Date:         1998/07/15
Message-ID:   <35AD59D1.3AD5CE64@bigfoot.com>
Newsgroups:   alt.ufo.reports

<snipped>

I'm informed that pilots of 14 Squadron RNZAF operating Corsairs in the
Pacific Islands also encountered 'foo fighters' towards the end of WW2.
I have no further details, but maybe a lead from there for someone.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John R Nickolls/Paratechnics
PO Box 931  Manurewa  Auckland  New Zealand
Tel: +64-9-268 1743  Fax: +64-9-268 2376
http://crash.ihug.co.nz/~nickolls












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                  Re: Bormann Demystifies Gemini 7 UFO Myth

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 06:11:23 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 01:30:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Bormann Demystifies Gemini 7 UFO Myth


>Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 17:10:13 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Bormann Demystifies Gemini 7 UFO Myth


>>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk >>To:
updates@globalserve.net >>Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 00:45:37 +0200
>>Subject: Astronaut Frank Bormann Demystifies Gemini 7 UFO Myth

>><snip>

>>At almost twice the length of Gemini 5, Commander Frank
>>Borman's Gemini 7 mission may have been even more trying, but
>>it grabbed the attention of at least one Hollywood producer.

>>"Right after we got into orbit we were supposed to "station
>>keep' or fly formation with the booster," Borman says. "We were
>>flying formation and taking photographs and infrared
>>measurements and I started calling it a "bogey,' which is an old
>>fighter pilot term. Well, a lot of the UFO freaks on the ground
>>picked this up and said we had seen a UFO because we had
>>referred to our booster as a bogey. Just this past year I got a
>>call from a producer at "Unsolved Mysteries" and they said, "We
>>read your account about your seeing a UFO on Gemini 7 and would
>>you come on the program?' I told them: "I'd love to come on your
>>program because I'd love to straighten that out.' I explained
>>what it was I saw and I said, "I don't think there were UFOs,'
>>and the producer said, "Well, I'm not sure we want you on the
>>program.' "

>><snip>

>Seems to me that Frank Borman's recollection is in conflict with
>what his fellow Gemini 7 astronaut, James Lovell, is quoted in
>saying during the actual space mission.  James Lovell you may
>recall was later the Commander of Apollo 8 which made the first
>manned flight to the Moon in December 1968.  On that mission
>James Lovell is also quoted as saying "Please be informed that
>there is a Santa Claus"...

>We find the following dialogue from the web site below.

>http://www.anomalous-images.com/astronaut.html#Borman


>Lovell:  Bogey at 10 o'clock.

>Capcom:  This is Houston. Say again 7.

>Lovell:  Said we have a bogey at 10 o'clock high.

>Capcom:  Gemini 7, is that the booster or is that an actual
>         sighting?

>Lovell:  We have several...actual sightings.

>Capcom:  ...estimated distance or size?

>Lovell:  We also have the booster in sight...

>Maybe the producer of "Unsolved Mysteries" should have contacted
>James Lovell instead of Frank Borman regarding this bogey.

>There is also a photograph with two ball shaped UFOs (possibly
>reflections from a window since one would expect these UFOs to
>be centered in the picture if one was taking a photo of them)
>which is credited to Frank Borman at this same web site.

>Can someone account for the dialogue with James Lovell and/or
>UFO picture by Frank Borman?

>Nick Balaskas

From:

http://www.ufobbs.com/txt1/616.ufo

The source isn't specified.


Stig


*******


SUBJECT: UFOs & NASA SPACE MISSIONS
   FILE: UFO616

================================================================
NASA.txt - This document is a compilation of material relating
to NASA and sightings by astronauts of UFO's. The material
contained herein is not of an original nature but can be found
in the sources listed at the end of the text. There has been
much discussion on astronaut sightings in the echos. To help
stimulate this and get us all up to speed on the topic I thought
it would be informative to collect all the available material
into one file. I have attempted to collect the facts and present
the opinions both pro and con concerning each incident. I have
only listed sources for which I have actual copies in my
possession. If you know of other sources not listed here which
specifically relate to NASA encounters, please let me know. Your
assistance is appreciated.

<snip>

GEMINI VII  December 4, 1965  (Frank Borman, James Lovell)

During this flight Borman describes what he calls a "bogey at
ten o'clock high" The object was slowly tumbling and was at
first thought to be their booster rocket. But this was ruled out
when the astronauts also saw the booster simultaneously with the
bogey.

<snip>

Lovell is reported to have taken some magnificent photographs of
two mushroom shaped UFO's on December 4. The pictures seem to
show the glow of a propulsion system on the underside. The
pictures were taken at a range of several hundred yards. Some
believe this picture to be a blatant forgery accomplished by
airbrushing a picture of light reflecting off the nose of the
spacecraft.

<snip






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                         UK & London Sightings 1997?

From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:17:38 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:06:32 -0400
Subject: UK & London Sightings 1997?

Does anyone on the list have the estimated total number of
UFO sightings in London and also England for 1997.

In addition to this information does anyone have the number
of alleged abductions in London and also England for 1997.

Thanks, Tony

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tspurrier/






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                             Re: Sturrock Panel

From: "Steven Kaeser" <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 06:57:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:49:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Sturrock Panel


>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Sturrock Panel
>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 23:25:46 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

<snip>


>Sturrock's panel summary seems contradictory. On the one hand,
>they conclude that

>"It may be valuable to carefully evaluate UFO reports to extract
>information about unusual phenomena currently unknown to
>science."

>but then

>"The review panel was not convinced that any of the evidence
>involved currently unknown physical processes or pointed to the
>involvement of an extraterrestrial intelligence."

>It is difficult to understand how they came to the first
>conclusion in light of the second. But I'm glad they didn't take
>any specific focus on any specific hypothesis.

Getting scientists to admit that there are phenomena that they
simply can't explain with traditional scientific explanations is
a good step forward. It's also important to note that being
labeled an unknown because the evidence can't be explained by
traditional science is different than being listing "unknown"
because of insufficient evidence (although some might argue that
the latter leads to the former).

On the other hand, I suspect that any kind of ETH hypothesis will
require far more conclusive evidence than has been found thus
far.  The "leap of faith" (and/or "paradigm shift") that would
have to accompany that theory would be very difficult for the
scientific community to accept without some sort of "landing on
the White House lawn" (so to speak).  Until there is absolute
proof that a "natural phenomenon" explanation is out of the
question, no other theories are likely gain popularity among the
scientific community.

Steve







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               Re: CE: Open Letter to The Cincinnati Enquirer

From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 07:16:46 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:04:35 -0400
Subject: Re: CE: Open Letter to The Cincinnati Enquirer


>From: RobIrving@aol.com
>Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 21:37:49 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: CE: Open Letter to The Cincinnati Enquirer

Rob, you wrote:

>Like, I hope, many here I find it curious that no-one has addressed
>James Easton's question as to whether such 'evidence' should be
>presented to the Sturrock panel, or derivatives thereof, or just any
>old reputable scientific outfit.

>It's physical enough and one would think that it ought to have been
>recorded properly. What, in your opinion, is the problem? Why has
>it been ignored?

It HAS been recorded properly.

I brought up crop circles to demonstrate the treatment of that
sort of subject by the media. Sadly, there is a correlation
between press coverage and interest by scientists in UFOs and
crop circles. I believe only the independent thinkers pursue
them. The group thinkers hold off until the "group" begins to
change "its" mind. I'm probably oversimplifying things, but
that's the impression I have. The evidence for some crop circles
being of genuinely mysterious origin is there to be seen, and if
it holds any advantages over ufology, they are repeatability and
the physical nature of the phenomenon. Since only circumstantial
evidence links crop circles to UFOs they were not the focus of
the panel. I suspect that if a comprehensive report were given to
the panel without interference by the media, they might just have
a look at it. At the moment however, I'm sure they have enough on
their plate.

Greg







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                  HEATWAVE '98 - British UFO Studies Centre

From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:16:07 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:05:57 -0400
Subject: HEATWAVE '98 - British UFO Studies Centre


From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
To: <rbx32@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: BUFOSC - HEATWAVE '98
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:51:44 +0100

Hello all!

Welcome to HEATWAVE '98 - the warm message of Summer love and
affection from the British UFO Studies Centre.

IN THIS REPORT;

 - AMAZING NEW VIDEO FOOTAGE OF UFOs OVER CROPS IN WILTSHIRE
 - CLOSE ENCOUNTERS EXPOSED?
 - ATTEMPT TO SERIOUSLY INJURE BUFOSC RESEARCHERS
 - FLYING TRIANGLES - THE TRUTH....AGAIN
 - BUFOSC ACTIVISM.
 - EVENTS PLANNER.

AMAZING FOOTAGE TAKEN IN WILTSHIRE!! EXTRA EXTRA!

Welsh researcher and Editor of the popular 'Truthseekers Review'
magazine Matthew Williams (truthseekers@btinternet.com) has
filmed some potentially amazing video footage in Wiltshire. Last
week, armed with video camera and accompanied by a colleague,
Williams filmed around five minutes of video footage; just under
two minutes of footage of a military helicopter (Westland Lynx)
flying low and hovering near Milk Hill, footage of this
helicopter chasing what appeared to be a ball of white light
under intelligent control and three minutes of a cigar-shaped
object overhead!!

There seems little doubt that the helicopter was chasing the
object. Whether the h/c pilot knew of the existence of the
cigar-like object is unclear but the h/c did hover menacingly
over Williams' head - around 20ft - for some time. This clear
attempt at intimidation breaks all known low flying protocol.

So what is going on? Can this be a series of coincidental
events, unconnected in any way?

Does the military have knowledge about the crop circles
appearing in nearby fields?

And who killed Kenny?

Editor of  'The Circular Review' Nick Nicholson reports that 40
formations have been reported this Summer in Wiltshire alone.
Many of these have been poor fakes although some appear to be
well-formed. BUFOSC and friends will be down in Wiltshire from
26th July........Join us. Contact us NOW for details.

Well done Matthew and Nick!

MORE CRAP?

Did you know that the year 2,000 divided by 3=3D 666? No? Neither
did we and perhaps somebody will be kind enough to point out the
relevance of this fact...Neither Eric or I are given to reading
'Revelations' Chapter anything.......

THE SCUM OF THE EARTH!

Meanwhile, back in the weird and wonderful world of Ufology
attempts to stifle the publication of my forthcoming book
entitled 'UFO Revelation' have failed miserably. The same people
involved in this pathetic attempt are no doubt in close contact
with the people who sabotaged Eric Morris's car only hours
before we were due to travel to Sheffield yesterday (14th July)
to address the excellent Yorkshire UFO Society.

A very serious and potentially fatal accident was narrowly
avoided.........

The circumstances are as follows; the crime was committed at
Eric's place of work. 'Inside' knowledge that the work car park
video camera was operational but that no tape was being used to
record events was vital to the commission of the crime. There is
no history of vandalism or car theft at the location in question
and only ONE person with this information could have committed
the crime.  This person is also the one behind the libelous
'SHADOW' leaflets circulated at the back end of last year and in
early 1998. We believe that this specimen has had the support of
three other prominent Ufologists, one of them a prominent
Midlands UFO groupie, and that they are for whatever reason
desperate to halt our progress and to stop our research into
man-made UFOs. We also suspect very strongly, and based upon a
great deal of information provided by decent people close to
this gang of wasters, that they are desperate to attack Eric
Morris for reviewing his position on Close Encounters....

This information is being passed to the local CID.

CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE UN/REAL KIND...........

As you may know by now, Eric is a qualified and Registered SEN
who has worked for many years as a Psychiatric Nurse. He spent
two years running the 'Abduction Research and Counselling
Centre' from 1994 and he gained quite a bit of publicity as a
result of this bold effort. He concluded, after a great deal of
research and having met several dozen 'experiencers', that in
all but a two cases nothing real (at least not abduction by
aliens whereby 'victims' are taken onboard a 'spaceship',
examined, experimented upon and returned to their point of
origin) took place. This does not mean that we have ruled out
psychological factors or that close encounterers do not think
that something has happened to them. What we are saying is that
the powerful imagery - the 'alien Grey' - put into people's
minds by Whitley Strieber, Bud Hopkins in concert with a wealth
of alien magazines has combined to create an abduction
mythos.................

The 'typical abduction scenario' is described by many authors
including Dr. David Jacobs and it is very similar to that which
I noted above. Jacobs' new book is titled "The Threat". We
venture to suggest that the biggest threat of all is to people's
sanity - from books like this with a neo-Gothic nightmare
scenario almost entirely constructed as a result of dodgy
hypnosis. We have spoken to many claimed experiencers and the
number of times that we have found them to have a long history
of medical, mental problems or subject to the use of
particularly strong medication never ceases to amaze.

And then there is some fascinating research, also the target for
smear and attack from certain of the sadder elements within
Ufology, undertaken by Albert Budden that strongly indicates
some sort of sensitivity to strong electromagnetic fields. I
remember reading an article in a scientific magazine recently
about the risk of cancer for those people living near power
lines. So it is more than conceivable that strange things result
from this most powerful symbol of modern technology.......

The saddest thing of all is that if more serious scientists
decided to look into these claims Ufology would be left behind
with little or no scientific information to impart. Ufology
would be left behind and out-maneuevered......

MEANWHILE, BACK IN COURT.....

Paul McKenna, the well-known stage hypnotist and paranormal
presenter, has, it is claimed, managed to turn a perfectly
well-adjusted man into something approaching a gibbering idiot.
The case has been reported in most of the major newspapers in
the UK this week.

If anyone out there still believes that hypnosis is a good
thing, then perhaps they should think again - if they have the
capacity to do so.........

Over in the USA, the debate about regression continues with
further revelations of bad practice and misuse of hypnosis. This
must indeed be music to Kevin McClure's ears. Although we
strongly disagree with his take on German flying saucers his
expose of the many charlatans and lunatics within  Ufology has
been very important indeed. A still small voice of calm in a sea
of paranoia and deceit. McClure's 'Abduction Watch' is available
from:

3 Claremont Terrace,
Leeds LS3 1AX.
United Kingdom
=A310 for 12 issues......

Back issues are available to view at the 'Magonia' website.

WEB SITES

We discovered a very amusing and informative website last week;

www.brotherblue.org

Try working out what the guy is talking about and you get
instant passage to heaven.....

FLYING TRIANGLES - THE TRUTH AGAIN.

Max Burns and Victor Keen appear to share rather alot of common
ground although Max has difficulty constructing sentences and
spelling simple words properly.

Their latest miserable attempts to put forward their belief that
flying triangle 'UFOs' are of 'ET origin' defy belief and common
sense but highlight a much bigger problem for Ufology......

'Ufology' appears to be little more than a religious position
based upon myth. Serious scientific and/or research-based
efforts, for instance Project Hessdalen, the investigations into
the myriad of problems associated with hypnosis and the efforts
by some of us to penetrate the web of deceit around black
projects have little to do with 'Ufology' per se although they
may affect the UFO 'research' community in certain ways.

Keen and co seem to feel that any old sighting will do - three
lights seen by witnesses does not mean 'triangular UFO'. Most of
these ' Triangular UFO sightings' relate to misidentifications
or aircraft lights. Max Burns and Keen are wholly unaware, or
refuse to understand, that flying wing/delta aircraft have been
developed from the 1930s. Therefore, Keen's latest 'discovery'
of a 'flying wing report from 1948' is wholly irrelevant
especially given that this was seen over London and that the UK
had been testing captured flying wing aircraft and building her
own........

For instance, I have some very interesting early schematics for
the AVRO Vulcan (1949 I think...) which show a straight-edged
triangular planform. Even more interestingly I note from a
recent history of the AVRO company that early test flights of
the Vulcan bomber resulted in UFOs being reported to local
police.....AND it was light-coloured....as were most a/c back
then.......

It is also the case, on a more general note, that triangle
sightings are not restricted to the USA or Europe. It is
fascinating to now hear of reports over Korea, Japan and Central
America - all these are places of vital strategic interest, and
potential troublespots as far as the US is concerned...

As far as the Belgium flap of 1989/90 is concerned I note that
neither Keen, Burns nor Omar Fowler (who appears to have a
marsupial relationship with Keen and Burns) have had the guts to
admit that there was/is no correlation between the faulty radar
returns showing a 'UFO' falling thousands of feet in a few
seconds and the triangles seen operating in near silence at low
level. They also fail to admit that the pilots of the 2 F-16s
sent to intercept the 'UFO' never made visual contact.........

I have found that a radical re-investigation of several cases,
Hudson Valley is one, suggests that we are dealing with bad
investigative techniques combined with pro-alien fantasy. For
instance, despite only receiving 19 so-called 'abduction'
reports out of thousands during early attempts to research the
Hudson Valley boomerang sightings, Imbrogno and Co decided that
the triangles were part of an 'alien-human breeding programme
run in cooperation with the CIA'. Check out his book 'Contact of
the Fifth Kind' if you don't believe me.......In addition, Bud
Hopkins was called in at the earliest moment, mid-1984, to
hypnotically regress some of these 'abductees'. His regression
'proved' the link between the triangles and abductions. NOT.

Later, Imbrogno claimed that triangles sightings had been
reported by local people almost exclusively between 8-12pm
whereas the 'abductions' took place between 2-4am.

Therefore he destroys his own argument. There was/is NO
LINK.....

Now I shall let you into a secret.

Some of the triangles operate from a military facility in New
York State........

BUFOSC ACTIVISM

We now hold regular meetings at the Saracen's Head Pub in
Stockton Heath, Warrington. The town itself has a history of
triangular UFO activity (the real stuff) going back to at least
1978/9. At that time RAF Burtonwood, now closed down (but you
can get to see the massive underground base there if you know
the right people) was the focal point for the flights of
classified triangular prototypes......The U2 also operated from
the base. Nuclear weapons were said by CND to be housed there
but this was just a bit of fiendish govt propaganda.

Nowadays triangles are reported throughout Cheshire. Many
sightings are misidentifications - major routes into Manchester
Airport etc. - although some are clearly evidence of Most Secret
goings on. Recent sightings over Stockton Heath, Glazebury,
Cuddington, Daresbury and the Mersey Estuary have been reported
to BUFOSC. In the case of the Cuddington sighting we
received a detailed report and sketch.....

EVENTS

21st July      - Southport monthly meeting.

26th July      - trip to South West for general hellraising.

4th August     - meeting at RAF Club, Northwich.

6th August     - meeting at Saracen's Head, Warrington.

29th August    - International Skywatch Event, West Lancs.

12th September - BUFOSC Conference in Midlands.....Eric Morris,
Tim Matthews, Steve Austin to speak. Admission just =A33 - full
big screen overhead and video projection. Ample parking
facilities, refreshments available. Start at 10am - finish 4pm.
BOOK NOW!

British UFO Studies Centre,
78 Greenall Rd, Northwich,
Cheshire CW9 5RN.

Tel (01606) 330567

Email bulletin; Tim Matthews; matthews@zetnet.co.uk

D of I; Eric Morris; bufosc@compuserve.com

SMASH THE UFO COVER-UP! JOIN BUFOSC TODAY!







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   Jul > Jul 16

                           UFOR: Chupacabra Update

From: Francisco Lopez - UFOR <d005734c@dc.seflin.org>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:18:07 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:23:07 -0400
Subject: UFOR: Chupacabra Update


Maybe the best direct source for information regarding the
Chupacabras is Journalist and UFO Researcher Jorge Martin at
jmartin@coqui.net, also, author Scott Corrales at Lornis@aol.com

Martin, with veterinarian Dr. Carlos Soto, even took samples of
blood, hair and other material, which were sent to private
labs in the USA mainland, although the samples had pollution from
ground and bacteria and the results, although of extreme
interest (they were not consistent with the chemistry of any
known life form in earth), are not taken as conclusive because of
the ground contamination.

He interviewed a military man (and checked his 214) who was in a
base near Roswell, where a couple of Chupas were held in capture
near two greys. The Chupas, according to the officer (and in
consistency with the reports in Puerto Rico, Brazil and other
parts) seems to be intelligent and very selective.

(Although far fetched, is interesting to note that an air squad
based in that base, has as the group name 'The Goat Suckers"
[ref. UFO Magazine, UK].

Many point the beginning of the Chupa crisis in Puerto Rico to a
landing of a saucer in the Town of Barranquitas in the center of
the island, near a radio station. Magnetic perturbations were
noted in all the electronic equipment and the communications
were disrupted. More than a thousand witnessed the event and
several Chupacabras were seen abandoning the ship. (Other
witnesses in the El Yunque Rain Forest area [including police
officers] informed seen a saucer type craft taking Chupas).

Both Martin and Corrales wrote excellent books on this
phenomenon.

Francisco









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   Jul > Jul 16

               Re: CE: Open Letter to The Cincinnati Enquirer

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 15:39:20 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:31:51 -0400
Subject: Re: CE: Open Letter to The Cincinnati Enquirer


>From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
>Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 07:16:46 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: CE: Open Letter to The Cincinnati Enquirer

>It HAS been recorded properly.

>I brought up crop circles to demonstrate the treatment of that
>sort of subject by the media. Sadly, there is a correlation
>between press coverage and interest by scientists in UFOs and
>crop circles. I believe only the independent thinkers pursue
>them. The group thinkers hold off until the "group" begins to
>change "its" mind. I'm probably oversimplifying things, but
>that's the impression I have. The evidence for some crop circles
>being of genuinely mysterious origin is there to be seen, and if
>it holds any advantages over ufology, they are repeatability and
>the physical nature of the phenomenon. Since only circumstantial
>evidence links crop circles to UFOs they were not the focus of
>the panel. I suspect that if a comprehensive report were given to
>the panel without interference by the media, they might just have
>a look at it. At the moment however, I'm sure they have enough on
>their plate.

>Greg

I think you're treading on thin ice by equating "media" with
"press coverage", and would suggest that the issue is, as you
note, more complex than you have described.

The media, including both entertainment and news, are
financially driven. Right now there is a great deal of
entertainment value to stories related to UFOs, Crop Circles,
Alien Abduction, and other paranormal subjects. This has in part
been amplified by programs like "Sightings" and "The X-Files",
and also because of the approaching millenium.  As these subject
are given a "tabloid" treatment by the media, there is little
chance that mainstream scientists are going to become publicly
involved.

Press coverage is a different matter, and when the actual news
departments of various networks have become involved in the
subject they have usually done a decent job of analysis.  Keep
in mind that the Press is not made up of scientific researchers,
but reporters who rely on the statements of others from which
they can draw their conclusions.  If a scientific panel would be
willing to put their reputations on the line and declare that a
Crop Circle is "genuinely mysterious", then the press would
probably report it (if it's important enough to make the news
that day).  A single scientist making that claim might not, but
that would depend on his reputation in his field.

IMHO, scientists don't avoid this genre because of the media's
portrayal of it.  It doesn't help, of course, but the primary
reason is that there is no reason to take a chance on damaging
your reputation and future when there's so much other resarch
that is so much safer.

The belief system of the "group thinkers" is ususally
represented in (and ultimately defined by) scientific journals,
and there are few articles related to this genre that appear in
those publications.  The recent "Sturrock" report is one such
article, having been published in the Journal of Scientific
Exploration.

Journal articles have to be accepted for publication, and the
panel that reviews them can help to define the viewpoints that
are expressed.  If one is required to "publish or perish", then
it would be unlikely that a controversial subject would be
selected.  On the other hand, a Journal that publishes a
controversial article could alienate a portion of its
readership, and damage its reputation in the scientific
community.  There are multiple forces at work to keep science on
a narrow, accepted, path. Science tends to be very conservative
when it comes to new ideas or change, and the bureaucracy that
has built up during the past several centuries in science is the
primary reason.

Just a few rambling thoughts.

Steve







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   Jul > Jul 16

                   NATO 'Firefly' - Black Budget Stealth?

From: Graham M. Wilson <gwilson_spur@lineone.net>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 18:59:31 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:40:42 -0400
Subject: NATO 'Firefly' - Black Budget Stealth?


The craft is an equilateral-shaped triangle, each edge, from tip
to tip, is approx. 184ft.

The 'Firefly' is one of the current generation of super-stealth
aircraft, still part of the black-budget programme.

This is not the alleged 'HALO' product, which is a smokescreen
designed to lure inquisitive researchers away from the
'Firefly', Warton are going to great lengths to keep ufologists
interested in that facility and its craft.

Near silent in operational flight, near silent hover
capabilities.

The underside lighting configuration is so designed as to give
conflicting eye-witness accounts of the lighting and indeed
shape of the craft, the three large circular red lights in each
point can converge in the centre to form one very large red or
white light.

The craft is fitted with various psychotronic devices, including
certain beam weapons that can induce psychological and
physiological effects on humans and animals alike, including
pulsed phased lighting effects that can induce a fit,
convulsions, or merely varied hallucinagenic states.

The disrupters, the sound weapons, can disoreintate individuals,
this can then go on to cause physical displacement, and if the
signals are strong enough, prove fatal.

I am informed that there are two of these craft in Europe in
current operation, one is based at Boscombe Down, and shares
flight operations with Macrihanish. The other craft is based in
Germany. The USA have two craft, of slightly different
configuration. The craft is manned or crewed by NATO personnel,
it is believed all participating NATO countries supply flight
crew. Flight simulators are located in the UK, Germany and the
USA.

Graham M. Wilson
(Chairman & Director of Investigations)
Society for Paranormal & UFO Research

http://website.lineone.net/~gwilson_spur/spur.html





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   Jul > Jul 16

                     UFO luminosity - some observations

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 14:47:35 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:34:11 -0400
Subject: UFO luminosity - some observations


I thought it might be interesting to set some data and speculations
before the lists to which I subscribe, in the interest of generating
some comments on one of the more interesting areas of UFO
physics. The material below is also accessible at

http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufolumin.htm

It often is said that we know very little about UFOs. The
following is some of my "beg to differ". However, argumentative
persons should note that the working hypothesis used in the
following is

1) UFOs have an objective existence as solid objects which emit
energy.

2) UFOs as solid objects have a body and an area outside the body.
This "sheath" area is where many luminous effects exist.

3) UFO luminosity is probably the result of energetic processes
which may very well be technologically generated.

So on to the points of interest...

.       There are several categories of UFO luminosity:
a) Full body, b) Patchy body, c) Rim lighting, d) Point sources,
e) Beams.

.       Full body luminosity is usually observed on objects in flight.
In rare cases it is observed in a landed or hovering UFO, however,
in those cases, the object usually almost immediately engages in
flight. Occupants are (I believe) never observed near UFOs in the
full body state (in fact, landed UFOs rarely emit luminosity, except
in a few cases where emissions from the base of the UFO are seen
to continue as the UFO hovers). In some cases, the full body
luminosity flashes on and off in a way frequently compared to a
flourescent light startup (this was reported at Levelland
(http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/report/571102.htm), 1:15 AM).
At my website, the Beaver Falls, PA photos
(http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufoextlu.htm) represent
one of the best examples of full body luminosity. Further, the
Levelland case indicates some relationship between full body
luminosity and vehicle interference effects (the report in
question is not currently included in the summary - however, the
witness observed the intensity of his headlights varied inversely
with the brightness of the UFO luminosity. It is unknown whether
this could be accounted for by the "washing out" of the headlights
by the brightness of the UFO).

.       Patchy body light is usually observed on slow flying or
hovering objects. Sometimes this is exhibited as a full body
covering which displays different colors on different portions of
the object�s geometry (i.e. a dome which differs in color from the
body of the object). Other times, as in the Tulsa, OK photo
(http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufonearl.htm), there are areas
of darkness between the lighting patches, and the patches can
be seen to be fairly well delineated.

.       Rim lighting can be part of a patchy body light or can be
the only lighting displayed by an object. This is sometimes
perceived as �portholes� and sometimes as a solid band. It has
also been seen to flash in sequence and in unison. Sometimes the
rim lighting is seen to provide the illusion of rotation. As shown in
the Moreland
(http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/report/590713.htm) case,
it seems this is distinct from the sequential flashing of the sort
observed in the Exeter
(http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/report/650903.htm) case,
and actually represents some form of movement around the rim
of distinct sources. The Moreland case, among others,
also suggests that as with the previous two categories, these
�lights� are actually some sort of plasma, probably a cold plasma,
and, further, that the generation of this plasma is distinct from that
produced by combustion, in that insufficient turbulence exists at
the boundary layer to produce the typical loud noise that such
�flames� would be expected to generate.

.       To the best of my knowledge, there are few close
observations of point source lighting. If the Villas Boas case is to
be believed, his observation indicates that these are bright areas
of the surface of the object rather than incandescent lights as we
know them. Further, assuming the validity of the Petit-Rechain
photo from Belgium
(http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/report/900404.htm),
we can see that the tips of a triangular UFO show lights which
may also be attributable to a plasma phenomenon. In that photo,
one can observe interesting striations of density in the light, and
wisps which appear to be partly detached from the source. The
example of what the Moreland case revealed about the rim
lighting of UFOs makes me cautiously willing to consider that
point sources are, like the rest of UFO lighting, manifestations
of some energetic phenomenon, likely plasmas, near the surface
of the UFO.

.       Beams appear to fall into two classes - normal and slow.
Normal light beams behave like searchlights or lasers, and are
likely to be just such phenomena (though one may note that a
laser can be produced from a plasma, and it is possible that UFOs
simply control their plasmas in such a way as to cause lasing of
various sorts). Slow beams, as observed at Trancas, Argentina
(http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/report/631021.htm),
seem, on the other hand, in view of their propagation speed
(3 to 20 feet per second), to be some sort of plasma phenomenon.

Now, in looking at the various cases, one can come to some
tentative conclusions:

.       Most photos of luminosity show some form of limb
darkening, strengthening the idea that UFO luminosity is a
plasma. (See, for instance, the Tulsa and Beaver Falls images).

.       UFOs must therefore input energy into the near surface
area to generate luminosity. This energy does not appear to be
heat energy (since UFOs emit relatively low levels of heat in
close encounters, and since the expected sound is absent), and
thus is more likely to be the result of the injection of electrons
(or other particles), UV light, x-rays, or gamma rays into the
near surface area. Because of the difficultly of creating plasmas
at atmospheric density and temperature, it is also possible
(especially in light of the luminosity of some reported submarine
UFOs (http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/report/670720.htm))
that UFOs create an area of lower atmospheric density near their
surface.

.       UFOs may maintain the near surface area ionization by
emitting energy into the near surface area across the entire surface
of the object, or from localized areas (the rim being a likely
suspect for disc shaped UFOs, the points for spindle shaped or
elliptical UFOs). Further, it is possible that maintaining this
ionization even when not in the full body state makes it easier
to go to the full body state.

.       The maintenance of this ionization may also benefit from
the injection of ionized atoms or molecules into the sheath, much
as a gas laser sometimes requires replacement or refreshing of its
contents. This may explain the occasional chemical odors and the
occasional presence of apparently chemical related burns and
rashes in close encounter cases
(http://www.temporaldoorway.com/eyeskin.htm). On the other
hand, these odors and substances may be a by-product of the
dissipation of energy injected into the sheath (for instance, could
formaldehyde, a frequently reported smell, be produced by
chemical reactions in an atmospheric plasma without the injection
of potential reactors into the sheath?).

.       I would suggest that the point source
lighting may well represent the localized injection of energy or
energetic atoms / molecules into critical locations of the sheath
area when the UFO is in the non-full body state. Some cases
suggest these even may be visible in the full body state when the
full body emission wavelengths are sufficiently different from
those near these localized sources. On the other hand, point
sources may also represent random or sporadic lasing of specific
areas of the sheath under certain conditions of energy emission or
local plasma state. I am skeptical that these represent lighting in the
sense of our aircraft lighting.

I am further skeptical that any of the
luminosity represents a by product of a propulsion system, since
UFOs clearly can fly while in the completely darkened state (note
however that one case does show a rim opening that became
luminous immediately prior to the witness feeling a force impulse
which knocked him down. This case, which appeared in "Above
Top Secret" is of unknown reliability - comments would be
appreciated). Therefore, I suspect that all luminosity are
manifestations  of an air sheath for ensuring laminar flow
over the UFO body at high speeds.

One other interesting point - a few UFO photos show small
detached points and elongated spikes of luminosity
(http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufomslum.htm). It is
possible that these represent the reaction of moisture with
the electrical and magnetic field of the sheath, since some
literature indicates a similar phenomenon happens in highly
charged clouds.

I also consider it possible that UFO luminosity represents a
laser-type phenomenon, in the sense that an energy population
inversion might be necessary to allow UFO luminosity to propagate
from the base to the edge of the sheath. I am currently attempting
to find some mathematical tools which will allow me to calculate
some related information:

.       The amount of energy needed to create a luminous plasma
at various densities and pressures from atmospheric gases.

.       What controls the ability of photons to make it from the
inside of the plasma to the outside and how can we interpret limb
darkening in an attempt to derive the density of the UFO sheath.

I hope this is interesting to the lists, and I'd certainly appreciate any
comments or clarification requests.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/library.htm
------







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   Jul > Jul 16

                      Second Interview with Eve Lorgen

From: Patricia Mason <pmason@ee.net>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 15:29:07 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:28:37 -0400
Subject: Second Interview with Eve Lorgen

Hi All,

My second interview with Eve Lorgen has been added to UNUSUAL
RESEARCH on:

        http://users1.ee.net/pmason/Eve2.html

It is included below. I feel the most important thing to keep in
mind here is that not only are detracting efforts being
perpetrated by people to hinder us from getting at the truth,
the aliens also appear to be doing their part to prevent
experiencers from assisting us.

All the best,

Pat

------------------------

UNUSUAL RESEARCH

Beyond The Unexplained with Eve Frances Lorgen

UR (Unusual Research): Let's review. What sort of research you
do and what are your credentials?

EFL (Eve Frances Lorgen): Most of my work involves counseling
and researching alien abduction cases. I hold a regular support
group for experiencers and abductees in the North San Diego
county area of California and also moderate an online abductees
only Internet mailing list.

I am a freelance journalist and involved in a number of book
projects related to my research. My degrees are in Biochemistry
(BS) and Counseling Psychology (MA).

UR :What aspects of the alien abduction phenomena do you focus
on?

EFL: Primarily, support and research into the cases which yield
useful information or any kinds of evidence of alien contact.
For instance the fluorescence residue "light markings" observed
post-abduction (see paper "Underneath the Skin"). These
fluorescence markings are believed to be caused by the alien
handlers where they touched the abductee.

Another aspect of interest is the medical and anomalous health
issues that many abductees share. Most are in the area of
gynecological problems, missing pregnancies, tubal and fibroid
scarring, irregular menses and unusual discharges post
abduction. Migraine headaches and miscellaneous allergies are
very common. For example procaine allergy, allergies to
antibiotics, the sun, various drugs and even foods, and a whole
host of inexplicable autoimmune disorders, especially in the
realm of skin rashes. Endocrine abnormalities are also common,
especially thyroid conditions. Sleep disorders, anxieties and
phobias. Most prominent is the tendency for psychic abilities
and unusual mental abilities. For example photographic memory,
high IQ's.

One of my primary questions here is to be able to determine if
these health anomalies are primary or secondary effects of
abductions, or if these are newly acquired genetic differences.

UR: What about alien implants? What are they, where are they
usually found and what do they do?

EFL: Implants or anomalous objects have been found in several
abductees' bodies and even surgically removed. Common areas are
nasal area, inner and outer ear, back of the neck, lower legs,
hands and feet, and sexual organs (mostly Dr. Leir's and Derrel
Sims' research). I think implants are more than simple tracking
devices, or transceivers and transponders . In fact, in five of
the seven individuals who had their implants removed, all of
them had encounters sometime following the implant removal. Four
of them felt a mental and mood lift improvement after the
implants were taken out. Two women who had similar types of
non-metallic implants had similar reactions several months after
the implant was removed, a red, stinging pain and discomfort
shooting down their legs, from the scar incision site. One had a
dramatic diuretic effect after the implant was removed and
became ill for about a month. Then she recovered with greater
mental clarity and vigor. Most of implantees noticed paranormal
or unusual events just prior to and after their surgeries. Many
felt like they were being watched and were being deterred from
one event or another from getting their surgeries. This
detracting effect seems to be perpetrated behind the alien
intelligence to keep abductees away from obtaining evidence (see
paper "After Effects of Implant Removals").

UR: What do you mean by "detracting efforts" of the aliens?

EFL: One of the first things I observed when working with
abductees is the influence the aliens seem to have over their
lives, whether they know it or not. This was evidenced by the
things and unusual coincidences that happen before and after
abductees go to support groups, visit researchers and after
abductions. For example, an abductee will want to go to a
support group meeting and look into UFO research to discover
their own memories and experiences. This behavior and attitude
seems to set off a series of insidious detracting efforts or
even blatant spiritual warfare tactics to keep the abductee or
researcher from getting valuable information or evidence of
alien abductions. The abductee may be suddenly struck ill, like
a migraine, chest pains or odd flu like illnesses that
perpetually keeps them away from support groups. Or a spirit
guide will tell the abductee not to read a certain book, see a
certain researcher, etc. Sometimes the person will get abducted
the night or two before a conference, support group or
therapist's appointment and they will not recall the abduction.
The only thing they will feel is extreme anxiety about going to
the researcher, and an uncomfortable feeling that "they are not
supposed to talk" to anyone or they will get into trouble. It
has been discovered later through hypnotic regression that the
abductee was given a suggestion by the aliens to not see a
therapist or support group, etc.

Another example is an abductee will go into a bookstore intent
on getting a specific UFO book. Then once they enter the store,
they get a violent headache and have to leave. Or they have no
problem reading a positive benevolent extraterrestrial theory
book replete with channeled messages from cosmic space brothers,
and consciousness raising propaganda. But if they read something
like a scientific book on abductions or the more hard core
deception uncovering books like David Jacobs, The Threat or Dr.
Karla Turners book Masquerade of Angels, then the abductee may
suddenly go to sleep and not be able to read the book.

UR: How do the aliens control these abductees? Can this be
related to the implants?

EFL: It is very possible implants can influence the abductee's
health, moods and even thoughts. This is based on some of the
scientific results of the implant surgeries, combined with keen
observation of abductees after abductions where they recall a
new anomalous object inserted into their bodies. The implants
were discovered to have nerve proprioceptors of the wrong type
around the implant, suggesting a connection to the nervous
system. If the nervous system is connected to these objects,
then this alone can suggest alteration of neurotransmitters and
endocrine function, theoretically.

Also, abductees I've interviewed who, after an abduction where
an object was inserted sometimes in the back of the neck, wrist,
hand, and many locations, will suddenly have no dream recall
after this event. Whereas usually they had good recall of
dreams.

An appearance of an implant sometimes will happen right after
the abductee goes to a researcher to explore memories. Or one
case, where the abductee had recall of horrific underground base
memories of human processing plant operations, called to tell
me, then after a short period of time, she got abducted again,
and dream recall became a blank, along with any other abduction
memories.

UR: What do you mean by spiritual warfare tactics?

EFL: I believe that the aliens or the intelligence acting
behind them is working on a spiritual level to affect the
abductee. Most of the warfare tactics can be observed when the
abductee seeks out information on abductions, UFOs and their own
memories. This happens by steering the abductee into psychic
readings, channellers, and many New Age ideologies that draw
them away from hard facts. For example, they may be led into
finding their spirit guides, past life therapy, psychic
readings, etc. This information can be nothing more than alien
"spiritual disinformation" to keep the abductee away from
getting hypnotic regressions or critical thinking. I've had
abductees tell me they received telepathic messages to not do
regressions, or instead do psychic readings or see channellers
who throw a positive spin on alien contact. I've seen the
abductee get thrown from crises to crises or a series of dramas
that keep them detracted from getting to core issues related to
a life time of abductions. Often they will have an addiction
problem.

Also, it can be evidenced by the retaliatory behaviors of the
aliens on abductees who start speaking out publicly, rather than
promoting alien propaganda. (They are here to save us, raise our
consciousness, spread peace and light, etc.)

I personally have found prayer and reading scripture with faith
in Jesus Christ's name to be a powerful tool against basic
spiritual warfare, and also alien intrusions.

UR: Can you give an example of how aliens manipulate our lives?

EFL: A good example is what I term "Alien Orchestrated Human
Bonding Dramas". What happens is that the aliens will abduct a
person, then bond them together emotionally, sexually and
psychically to another abductee. Sometimes this bonding begins
in childhood. Later in life when the two targeted partners meet,
they may suddenly fall in love and have an instant sense of
recognition and profound love for one another. They may already
be married to other partners, and this creates a very painful
and difficult situation. The emotions are intense and usually
one falls in love more than the other and is left feeling
unrequited. More often than not, one partner will recall the
abduction or previous set up, or at least a strong sense of
recognition, while the other will not. These bonding dramas set
up intense love obsessions for either partner, which in most
cases are emotionally painful and exhilarating at the same time.

Many times the abductee learns in retrospect that they were set
up to marry specific partners, possibly for the offspring they
produce. Other times, the choice of partner seems unlikely and
the abductee wonders why they are matched up with a partner who
becomes switched of from them or emotionally isolates them.

I've seen this kind of bonding drama or "Love Bite" be activated
in someone's life once they are in hot pursuit of abduction
memories or UFO research information. It's like they get hit
over the head with a love spell that throws them off for a year
or two.

The Love Bite is the title of a book I am co-authoring with
Barbara Bartholic, an abductions researcher from Oklahoma.
Basically it is about Alien Orchestrated Human Bonding Dramas,
Relationship Manipulations, Love Obsessions and Spiritual
Warfare tactics perpetrated on human abductees.

UR: Do people report positive and uplifting experiences with
the bonding and matchmaking dramas?

EFL: Yes. For those who have had the experience of being bonded
to another individual, there is no other love so strong and
unconditional as the love they feel for this targeted partner.
It is an exhilarating high because the love is so strong and
seems to unleash powerful emotions and creative energies. During
these intense emotional highs, a whole variety of psychic and
paranormal things happen to the bonded couple. The part that is
painful is that the aliens don't seem to have any moral
considerations for the matched individuals, whether they are
married to other partners or not. These strong bondings can
create marital infidelity, divorce, depression, and emotional
upheaval.

UR: What kinds of aliens are abducting people and doing these
bonding scenarios?

EFL: Most abductees report the grey aliens, the small 3-5 ft.
ones. A significant number of abductees I've worked with had
reptilian encounters, or a combination of greys, reptilians and
human military type of people. Other aliens reported are the
small dark robed ones, tall black robed ones with glowing red
eyes, insectoids, tall pale thin ones, Nordic types, and tall
ones wearing diaphanous robes. The Greys seem to be the main
work force. The reptilians have a lot of power and control over
the Greys and have been observed to use intimidation and fear
tactics of control. In fact, the reptilians may be behind much
more alien activity than we even imagined. This is what
researchers like Barbara Bartholic and James Bartley have
discovered in their work.

UR: What about underground bases? Are our own people involved
with the aliens?

EFL: I've had several abductees report being taken to
underground facilities where alien greys, human military or
white lab-coated people work, and also reptilians. These kinds
of abductions seem to involve a human element as well. I've had
several abductees recall joint abductions or mutually shared
dreams and virtual reality scenarios that they believe took
place in underground bases. Often these abductees report
surveillance activities, phone tapping clicks, tones, black
helicopters, indirect threats, etc.

UR: What can abductees do to cope, avoid abductions and get out
of the victim mentality?

EFL: The first thing abductees should do is to find support or
like minded individuals who they can freely share experiences
with. Secret keeping behavior of multigenerational abductions
causes dysfunctional family patterns and emotional isolation.
Get out of emotional isolation and talk, read, write and
correspond with as many others to get a wide view of the
phenomena. As much as the abductee/experiencer would like, do
not use a single personal experience to determine the truth of
the abduction phenomena. Get to the information where you can
observe the numbers of abduction reports from many different
researchers.

Knowledge is power. Freedom comes from getting out of the bonds
of imposed ignorance. Avoid information that sounds too good to
be true or those that make you feel important, special or "feel
good" theories. Some abductees have been able to resist
abductions through prayer or other mental disciplines. Learn
healthy coping skills and communication skills, overcome
addictions. Counseling and hypnosis and prayer are useful. Learn
lucid dreaming for enhanced dream and abduction recall.

For me, prayer and counseling has been the most useful. Also
getting the right information has saved me years worth of
suffering and misery! Talk, talk, and talk!

Ms. Lorgen's Abductees Only Internet mailing list is by referral
only. For questions or comments concerning her research you can
write to:

LORGEN@aol.com.

=A91998 Unusual Research



[[[[[[[[[[[[ UNUSUAL RESEARCH ]]]]]]]]]]]]]

   http://users1.ee.net/pmason/index.html

[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 16

                            Re: 'Sturrock Panel'

From: Francis Ridge <slk@EVANSVILLE.NET>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 07:54:45 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 17:49:29 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Sturrock Panel'


>Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 23:58:50 -0400
>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Sturrock Panel
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

Dear List Members,

WARNING LABEL! <G>

The following is what makes Ufology worth pursuing and is not for the
closed-minded:

>James Easton:

>Perhaps ideally, that influential, or at least significant, scientists
>will campaign for a formalised, scientific investigation of 'UFO'
>evidence?

>>What would that include, say...

>'abductions by aliens and the ongoing hybrid program'
>'crop circles'
>'alien implants'
>stigmatists
>MJ-12
>Ed's numerous, amazing, 'Gulf Breeze' photos
>'men in black'
>'black helicopters'
>'men in black in black helicopters'
>contactees
>'cattle mutilations'
>'Star Elders'
>Whitley Streiber's 'experiences'
>Reverse engineered, captured alien technology
>Meier's numerous, amazing, 'flying saucer', photographs
>Chupacabras
>'Roswell'
>The great NASA cover-up of [insert subject here]...

>Etc..

>No?

Nope!

With:

1) 106,000 sightings on computer (UFOCAT)
2) 3,000-plus sightings from aircraft (Dr. Richard Haines)
3) 489 radar cases, many radar/visual (Dominique Weinstein)
4) 363 radar cases, 76 as R/V!!! (US Air Force records)
5) 5600 trace cases, 4104 with UFO sightings!!!! (CUFOS)
6) 185 E-M cases involving aircraft (Haines)
7) Over 500 cases E-M effects with UFOs (CUFOS)
8) Many hundreds of just GOOD close encounters
9) And 701 Blue Book unknowns of various types

If you're honest and want to get to the bottom of the UFO, you
must face the facts.

Francis Ridge






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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 17

                         Kevin McClure and Nazi UFOs

From: Jack Veach <pinegap@flash.net>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 17:38:39 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 08:31:17 -0400
Subject: Kevin McClure and Nazi UFOs

Mr. McClure makes some very positive statements debunking a
great deal of untruths about Nazi UFOs, however I would like to
offer him a website and an email whereby he might find more
information about Mr. Renato Vesco.

I am a member of Vanguard Science, not Vangard Science, as he
has listed. This is a civilian group of folk, here in the
Dallas-Ft. Worth TX area that are open-minded about the verity
of science and have taken it upon ourselves to study Tesla,
Keely, and a host of others we feel have been given the
short-end of the stick with respect to technology and
applications thereof.

Mr. Jerry Decker and Mr. Churck Henderson could much better
avail you of information about Mr. Vesco and his work. I
personally had an English translation of one of his works I gave
away about ten years ago pursuant the German V-7.

My father and his C.O. both saw Foo Fighters over Europe during
WWII, so that much is real. Neither my dad or Col. Lasly knew
anything about UFOs, nor had any interest in them. What they did
say was that between the Foo Fighters and the Me-262s they
encountered, they felt they would be killed before the war was
over in Europe.

You may, if you so endeavour, pass this on to Mr. McClure as I
found this posting on an international UFO site somewhere: he
may contact jdecker@keelynet.com and/or chenders@keelynet.com or
take a gander at the site itself, keelynet@ix.netcom.com.

I hope that will clear some things up for Mr. McClure with
respect to Vanguard Science and Mr. Vesco and hopefully all of
us can clear the riddle of the Nazi UFOs from all the smoke and
mirrors that unfortunately come to the fore on something of this
nature.

Yours truly,

Jack Veach
pinegap@flash.net









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 17

                            Re: 'Sturrock Panel'

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 19:04:44 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 08:31:50 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Sturrock Panel'


>From: Francis Ridge <slk@EVANSVILLE.NET>
>Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 07:54:45 -0500
>Subject: Re: 'Sturrock Panel'
>To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

>>Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 23:58:50 -0400
>>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Sturrock Panel
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>Dear List Members,

>WARNING LABEL! <G>

>The following is what makes Ufology worth pursuing and is not for the
>closed-minded:

>>James Easton:

<snip>

>>'abductions by aliens and the ongoing hybrid program'
>>'crop circles'
>>'alien implants'
>>stigmatists
>>MJ-12
>>Ed's numerous, amazing, 'Gulf Breeze' photos
>>'men in black'
>>'black helicopters'
>>'men in black in black helicopters'
>>contactees
>>'cattle mutilations'
>>'Star Elders'
>>Whitley Streiber's 'experiences'
>>Reverse engineered, captured alien technology
>>Meier's numerous, amazing, 'flying saucer', photographs
>>Chupacabras
>>'Roswell'
>>The great NASA cover-up of [insert subject here]...

>>Etc..

>>No?

>Nope!

>With:

>1) 106,000 sightings on computer (UFOCAT)
>2) 3,000-plus sightings from aircraft (Dr. Richard Haines)
>3) 489 radar cases, many radar/visual (Dominique Weinstein)
>4) 363 radar cases, 76 as R/V!!! (US Air Force records)
>5) 5600 trace cases, 4104 with UFO sightings!!!! (CUFOS)
>6) 185 E-M cases involving aircraft (Haines)
>7) Over 500 cases E-M effects with UFOs (CUFOS)
>8) Many hundreds of just GOOD close encounters
>9) And 701 Blue Book unknowns of various types

>If you're honest and want to get to the bottom of the UFO, you
>must face the facts.

>Francis Ridge


Indeed.  However, I would add that if any hard evidence in
support of the subjects mentioned above were to surface, I would
certainly expect that to be reviewed by the scientific community
as well. There are certainly many belief structures within this
genre, and attempts to reduce the entire subject to its lowest
common denominator seems a bit self-serving (IMHO).

Steve








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   Jul > Jul 17

                           Filer's Files #28-1998

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 18:21:17 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 08:31:42 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #28-1998

Filer's Files #28-1998  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer,    MUFON Eastern Director,
July 16, 1998, Majorstar@aol.com  609 654-0020

Professor Herman Oberth, the German rocket expert considered the father of the
space age stated in the American Weekly, October 24, 1954:
"It is my thesis that flying saucers are real and that they are space ships
from another solar system.   I think that they possibly are manned by
intelligent observers who are members of a race that may have been
investigating our earth for centuries."

NEW YORK

A New York Police helicopter and a Plasma UFO were photographed by Alex
Cavallari near J. F. Kennedy Airport on July 3, 1998.  Alex was outside
barbecuing dinner at 5:30 PM when he heard the roar of a helicopter at low
altitude heading his way.  Alex said,  "I had the camera ready, when the
helicopter approached heading west over exit # 9 of the Belt Parkway.  As I
waited for the helicopter to enter my field of view, I noticed flashes and
what looked like a big muffin shaped light form.  I took pictures as fast as
the camera would take them.  The helicopter circled around and came back to
about the same location as before.  I spotted some spherical shaped Plasma
objects near or in the cloud height of 7,000 to 10,000 feet.  The Orbs all
appear to be of the "Standard White Plasma Orb Craft" design but some of the
brightest I have observed.  They all appeared to be illuminated from within
and emitting some form of white optical energy.  The intensity of the white
color was greater then any other object in the area.  There was no glare or
light haze seen around the Orbs, but they were emitting light.  The appearance
of the white Plasma Orbs and craft are distinct and very different from any
other light or illumination known making them easy to identify.  They have a
special "look" all there own. This is not ball lightning or any other known
form of lightning discharge.
The photograph clearly shows a "Plasma Muffin" craft which has angular and or
curved sides.  There is a dark area in the middle and a funnel  shaped area
under the craft. This "conductive path" appears to lead to an area in the
middle of and on top of the plasma muffin.  This outline appears to be a
formation of electrical pressure that makes a noticeable path through the sky.
The plasma technology appears to use a form of electricity as a means to enter
and exit our "time and space.  Thanks to Alex Cavallari.

Editors Note:  When the craft enter our atmosphere they appear to be
surrounded by a bubble of Electromagnetic energy or plasma.  This energy does
not appear to be hot, but balanced in negative and positive charges.  This
bubble of energy makes photography difficult, but Alex is to be commended for
his ability to photograph these UFOs on a regular basis.  New scientific
theories such as those proposed by Princeton�s physicists J. Richard Gott and
Li-Xin Li in the U.S. News and World Report�s July 20, 1998, article Is Ours
the Only Universe?, may help explain what we are photographing in our skies.
The article states� "From the eternal mother universe could spring universes
such as ours, with expanding frontiers and a one-way arrow of time.  Each
"normal" cosmos would have other normal universes branching off from it,
generated  by black holes or inflation or whatever the bang mechanism is
ultimately proved to be.  If a time traveler could follow the chain of genesis
backward, eventually the mother universe would be found.  But from that point
there would be nowhere to go."

NEW JERSEY

On July 10, 1998, Ed P was walking near his home in Brick, NJ when he spotted
an object approaching in the sky. It moved slowly, and never changed speed or
direction. It seemed to be about 1000 feet in altitude and moved over me
traveling toward the South East around 8PM. Ed states, "I watched for more
than a minute and it appeared larger than a marble, but smaller than a golf
ball at arms length.  It had no wings or fins.  It was saucer shaped and
somewhat rounded or spherical.  One side was very dark, perhaps black.  The
other side was brightly lit.  The sun had set but it was still very light out.
The UFO rotated so the bright side and the dark side became visible during
each rotation.  Each rotation was about 2 seconds.  It did not rotate on any
axis you might normally think of.  It just tumbled along.  The light it gave
off was very bright but not as bright as looking at a 75 watt light bulb.  The
light was white but as it rotated, sometimes I could see a bit of red. I
called the local police and the Asbury Park Press to see if anyone else
reported it and the answers were negative. This was a very unusual object.

Last summer, I and a neighbor, saw a blinking object go from horizon to
horizon in 3 to 5 seconds.  Since then, he said he saw it three more times.
The blinks were elongated into streaks.  Now I am wondering it these sightings
were of the same object.  The July object if traveling fast could have
appeared to streak, because the light was in motion like a rotating beacon.
It caused many little spots in my vision to dance around.  I looked away and
saw from the object into the clear sky and little spots were dancing all over
my eyes.  I continued to watch the object until it was out of sight.  A short
time later, I realized that the little spots were all gone.  I had never seen
spots or little dots before or since.  I am a 55 year old Electrical Engineer
and I work for the government.  This object just defied gravity as it floated
along, slowly rotating.  I wonder who it belongs to and what it is doing.  Our
Government knows a lot more than me and I know what I saw so I am wondering
what the Government knows.  I am wondering why they are so quite on this
subject. I am inclined to think this was not part of a black project.  I got a
good look at this UFO and it was a solid object.  I don't mind talking about
this, but I want to remain anonymous. Thanks to Ed P.

PENNSYLVANIA

Stan Gordon reports, "I have received information on yet another UFO sighting
which was reported on July 12, 1998 at about 8:45P.M. from Suttersville, PA in
Westmoreland County, about 25 miles southeast of Pittsburgh.  The witness owns
a telescope and is familiar with the planets.  He was watching some aircraft
when he noticed a bright star like source of light approximately WSW of his
location in the generally clear sky. After a short time he went inside to get
his telescope to take a better look at it.  Through the telescope he saw a
solid white globe, but the center was more transparent.  Just above the globe
was another smaller sphere that was making a continuous back and forth motion,
in a somewhat circular fashion over it.  The smaller white sphere would move
from a 10 o'clock to a 2 o'clock position, then would reverse this motion.  It
would take about one second to move right, then another second to reverse
back.  This continued for over two minutes.  The globe itself appeared
stationary while under observation.  The object remained in the telescope
eyepiece, and he did not have to move the scope such as when he is observing
planets or stars.  He tried to have a neighbor look at the object but was
unsuccessful.  Thanks to Stan Gordon  contact information:   PA UFO Hotline
(24 hrs.) 724-838-7768 snail mail: P.O. Box 936, Greensburg, PA 15601

GEORGIA

MUFON�s John Thompson reports that many of the best UFO sightings in Georgia
have been on water near the Chattahoochee River and West Point Lake.  The car
size plasma UFO of June 16, 1998, was in my best estimation, real.  I have now
talked to several other people who have seen this phenomenon of "fireballs"
being generated by intense storms.  One gentlemen I talked to claims that
during Hurricane Opal that a Z strip of three feet wide by about 100 feet long
was "burned into his turnup-greens by the fire of Opal."  This occurred near
the same spot that the fireball was seen on Colquitte street in LaGrange.  He
says the soil was not burned, just a huge brown Z made into his turnup-green
patch. To this day--three years later--he says crops do not grow as tall or
good if planted in this Z. Another fellow I talked to said he had seen
fireballs generated by a lightning strike that "holds on."  This appears more
of a ball lightning nature that is powered with a lightning "capacitor."  The
balls generated by the huge discharge of electricity go shooting across the
ground he said.  There is also a report of a huge rolling fireball during
Hurricane Opal that was seen in Cannonville.  There seems to be a pattern
where the storms track and how UFOs track.  On a SW to NE line from
Cannonville through LaGrange at Colquitte street and onto Ragland street in
east LaGrange, there is  an high occurrence of storm "edge-points" and UFO
sightings.  Could there be some relationship between how severe storms
repeatedly track and where UFOs fly?  Is there less electrical resistance
along these routes?  Thanks to John Thompson, MUFON State Section Director.

MICHIGAN

On Friday July 10, 1998 at 3:49 pm EST, a woman driving north on US-127 near
Leslie, Michigan (15 miles south of Lansing) noticed "the glint of a silvery
object" near a small cumulous cloud.  She described the object as the size of
a Cessna-type aircraft, but "perfectly round like a steel BB".  She further
noticed "a shiny band around the middle" of the object.  The object seemed to
"slide up against the edge of the cumulous cloud, rolled down so that the top
reflected a shine and then it rolled up so that the bottom then reflected the
shine".  She noted that the "shiny band" stayed in the middle of the object
which enabled her to determine which side that the reflection came off of.
She noted that the object then "slid/flew into the edge" of the cloud from
which it never reappeared.

On July 3, 1998, around 3 PM EST, a 14 year old boy had a sighting of a
"flashlight UFO" at Blue Lake Fine Arts Music Camp in Twin Lake, ten miles
east of Lake Michigan.  The boy was in an outdoor pavilion rehearsing on the
violin with other orchestra students when he looked up.  He saw a strange
object that resembled a "metal gray flashlight with a nose bigger than the
back end".  He could see no windows or lights on it.  It was flying in a
"straight horizontal line" west towards Lake Michigan.  The object was at a
high altitude, and at arm's length was as big as his index finger.  He saw it
for ten seconds before it flew into a very large cloud.  When asked if he
pointed out the object to any of the others in the orchestra he replied, "No,
because the teacher would've said I was disturbing the rehearsal".  Thanks to
Marilyn Ruben from AAER at http://www.abduct.com/ and Jeff S. Westover.

CANADA

Emerald Lake, Yukon  Bill Oliver reports that on July 2, 1998, A man with two
or three other co-workers was constructing a log house overlooking Emerald
Lake.  He paused to look up at a mountainside across the highway to see if he
could spot any sheep at 9:45 AM.  In a draw or gully running up the
mountainside, he noticed an extremely bright reflective object flying around,
perhaps 20 feet above the tree tops. When he spotted the UFO, it swooped down
the mountainside and zoomed over the worker's heads. In those few seconds all
he could say was "look, look, look" and it was gone. The others didn't look up
fast enough to see it.  It was the size of a softball, highly reflective,
almost blinding, and appeared to have a metallic finish.  Understandably, the
fact that his buddies didn't see the object made him  upset. What was worse, a
few of the guys made fun of him. So much so that a fight almost ensued. The
witness never had an interest in UFOs before this but was convinced that there
was some form of intelligence guiding this object.  On his drive home to
Whitehorse, he shook his fist out the window up at the sky and yelled "come
back here!" The witness spent an hour relating his story repeatedly to
Lorraine Bretlyn, a Whitehorse UFO investigator.  Thanks to Bill Oliver at
boliver@direct.ca.

ARE THERE MORE UFO SIGHTINGS?

Ufologist Bob Durant writes, "Several years ago I wrote an article for IUR
called "Evolution of Public Opinion on UFOs."  This consisted of rounding up
public opinion polls on UFOs taken by the Gallup Organization, Roper, and
Audits and Surveys.  As of the time of writing, I had 13 polls, the first done
in August 1947, the last in 1993.  Since then the topic has gotten so "hot"
with the media that there are many recent polls.  The data was collated and
analyzed, then passed to half a dozen ufologists for comment.  Mainly, I
wanted them to tell me why the public had slowly but steadily increased their
belief in the reality of UFOs in the face of overwhelmingly negative positions
taken by the government, organized science, and journalism.  The final version
of my paper included those commentaries.  One question asked in many of these
polls was, "Have you ever seen a UFO?"  The responses varied from poll to
poll, but  an average of maybe 12% of adult Americans said "yes."  That is a
statistical starting point for the answer to your question about how many UFO
sightings have occurred.  Lots of assumptions must be made, such as assuming
one sighting per lifetime per "yes" person.  That would give 250 million times
12 percent, or 30 million UFO sightings. Is this figure valid if extrapolated
for the entire population of the planet?  I dunno, because there are no
equivalent polls in other countries that I know about.  But certainly UFO
sightings seem to occur throughout the world, so on a "why not" assumption,
12% of the world's population becomes a staggeringly high number.  I won't
argue this too long and too hard, but from the U.S. poll figures it is obvious
that the UFO data base we ufologists work with is woefully inadequate.  How
many of the sightings reported by poll respondents would qualify as serious
enough for us to study, is another matter entirely.  Put another way, how many
of the 30 million U.S. sightings are what Navy physicist Dr. Bruce Maccabbee
calls "TRUFOs" -- True UFOs???  Phil Klass would say zero, others would say
ten million, and so on.  Citing Project bluebook stats is no help, in that
from the record they seem to have "explained" a great many cases with
preposterous "explanations."  But as I understand the question, it was simply
a query about how many UFO sightings have we got?  Assuming the "we" in this
case is the American public at large, and not the government or civilian UFO
report collections, I think the 30 million number is about right.  Back to the
12% figure, which I find astonishingly high.  My opinion/speculation about how
belief that UFOs are "real" went from zero in the time period 1947 through
about 1960, and then steadily increased to over 51%, is as follows.  When Mr.
or Mrs. America sees a UFO, they don't run out and tell the papers or TV about
it.  They are very circumspect, knowing how the topic has been demeaned and
ridiculed.  So they tell only those closest to them, the wife, the husband,
the very closest friends.  In this way the "word" spreads, slowly but surely
and with great long term impact.  In this way the usual means of communication
in our society, the media, has been totally and efficiently bypassed.  Thanks
to MUFON�s Bob Durant and for his great birthday party.

MOON MONOLITH

Apparently the Clemontine Navy Spacecraft has just released photographs of
spectacular spires or monoliths on the Moon.  These spires were first
discovered in the mid-1960s, on photographs acquired by both Russia's Luna 9
and America's Orbiter-2 spacecraft.  They are grouped together at two widely
separated locations on the Moon.  Irene McDonald first sent me photographs
many years ago of these rather spectacular anomalies.  The newer just released
photos create more wonder and excitement because they just seem too tall and
smooth to be natural phenomena.  When first discovered, the Soviet press
theorized that they were "stone markers" or alien pillars.  A NASA geologist
claims that the measurements of the shadows of the spires indicate they are
taller than the tallest buildings on Earth.  The shadows on my NASA photograph
casts huge thin shadows for thousands of feet across the landscape of the
moon.  I always wonder why there is so little interest in these anomalies,
that seem to infer an ancient civilization on the moon.

WISCONSIN CROP CIRCLE

Port Washington, Wisconsin Jackie Shanti reports that on July 10, 1998,
strange markings were found in a wheat field.  Three large circles
approximately 90 feet across and connected by a slightly curved line were
discovered. There was no sign of  an entrance or exit to the field. Their
Phone Number: 414-962-9517, Address: 3400 N Frederick  Milwaukee WI  53211.
Thanks to Jackie Shanti.

SOCIETY FOR SCIENTIFIC EXPLORATION (SSE) PROPOSES UFO RESEARCH

John Thompson writes, The Society for Scientific Exploration (SSE) panel's
recommendations sounds allot like yours, George.  Their recommendations for
what to do sound like they were taken from your proposal of nearly two years
ago.  Peter A. Sturrock writes:
RECOMMENDATIONS CONCERNING IMPLEMENTATION:
The purpose of this section is to Summarize ideas of what might be done to
implement the panel's suggestions that were presented in their Summary Report
(Section 1). The panel's observations and recommendations may perhaps be
summarized very briefly as follows: The UFO problem is not simple and should
receive more attention, with an emphasis on physical evidence; regular contact
between UFO investigators and the scientific community would be helpful, as
also would institutional support; and the possibility of health risks
associated with UFO events should not be ignored.  The panel was greatly
impressed by work reported from GEPAN/SEPRA, the French project originally
GEPAN and now known as SEPRA (see Appendix 1), and there is no doubt that the
best prospect for real advance in our understanding of the UFO problem would
be the creation of similar projects in other countries, for the following
reasons:  1.  Such a project could be mandated to obtain access to relevant
data such as police records, radar records, etc.     2.  The project could
organize and draw upon a network of laboratories and consultants.     3.  The
project could set up and maintain a central database.     4.  The project
could construct and operate one or more mobile "observatories" that would
include a number of cameras and other detectors including, as a minimum,
optical, infrared,      spectroscopic, acoustic, magnetic and radiation
instruments.     5.  New cases could be investigated from the outset purely on
the basis of data collected by official channels and procedures.     6.  If
there is indeed a health hazard associated with some events related to the UFO
problem, some government office should offer a response to this hazard.  Even
the most speculative hypotheses could be evaluated by a well conceived and
well supported project.  For instance, an analysis of the isotopic composition
of material specimens could provide evidence that a specimen is probably of
extraterrestrial origin, and analysis of the spectra of stationary objects, if
it were to yield evidence of red-shifts or blue-shifts corresponding to a
fraction of the speed of light, could indicate that some extraordinary
physical process is involved.  However, material specimens are rare, and it
would take special equipment (that does not now exist) to obtain high-
resolution spectra of transient and unpredictable sources.  We realize that
not every country could duplicate GEPAN/SEPRA, since not every country has a
national police force similar to the French gendarmerie.  Furthermore, the
creation of any such project would represent a political act that can be taken
only by a national government for its own reasons or in response to public
pressure.  For these reasons, it is necessary to be realistic and look for
more modest approaches that could be initiated without government action.  It
would appear that progress is most likely to come about through incremental
changes in institutional support and incremental changes in level of interest,
these changes occurring symbiotically.  We therefore inquire into what small
positive changes could be made by scientists and by private institutions such
as societies, journals, universities and foundations.

 The most important change that could be made by scientists is to become
curious.  In view of the fact that modern UFO reports began in 1947, in view
of the emergence of clear patterns in UFO reports (as was established some
time ago by Poher [1973] among others), and in view of great public interest,
it is remarkable that the scientific community has exhibited so little
curiosity in the past.  There is no doubt that this lack of curiosity is due
in part to a lack of reliable and accessible information.  When Sturrock
carried out a survey of members of the American Astronomical Society in 1975,
he asked if members would like to obtain more information about the UFO
problem, and most respondents replied that they would (Sturrock, 1994; b; c).
Sturrock also asked whether members would like to acquire this information
from lectures, symposia, books, or journal articles; most respondents wanted
only journal articles.  At that time, most editors of most scientific journals
would not consider accepting an article on the UFO problem.  Since that time,
the SSE has been founded, and its journal is now in its 12th year of
publication.  However, the journal can be found in only a few university
libraries.  Hence the situation persists that it is not easy for scientists to
obtain information about the UFO problem by the normal process of going to the
library and looking up journal articles. Thanks to Peter A. Sturrock and SSE.

Please send your letters  to George A. Filer at Majorstar@aol.com.






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                        Col. Corso & Hoax Photograph

From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 20:45:23 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 08:50:26 -0400
Subject: Col. Corso & Hoax Photograph


I know that we have debated the reality of his work a
number of times, but I just found something that I think
is quite disturbing. In the photo section of the book, he
has reproduced a number of fairly well know UFO
pictures (which makes me ask why he couldn't come
up with something we haven't seen before).  The caption
at the beginning says, "Lt. Col. Corso was never able
to confirm the veracity of the following purported
UFO surveillance photos, which were in Army
Intelligence files as support material for the R&D
project to harvest the Roswell alien technology for
military purposes."

The very first picture is a a Ford hubcap and has been
identified as such from the middle 1950s.  The
photographer, Guy B. Marquand, Jr., of Riverside, CA.
admitted it was a hoax.

Now the question that bothers me about this is how
could the "guy on the inside," that is, Corso, not
know this was a hoax when everyone elses knows
it was a hoax.

And before you argue that it might be real, wouldn't
the "guy on the inside" have been aware of the
controversy. I mean, he is supposed to know all this
stuff that the rest of us didn't know.

Just thought I'd mention it.

KRandle





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                 Re: NATO 'Firefly' - Black Budget Stealth?

From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 21:16:28 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 08:59:19 -0400
Subject: Re: NATO 'Firefly' - Black Budget Stealth?


>From: Graham M. Wilson <gwilson_spur@lineone.net>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: NATO 'Firefly'
>Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 18:59:31 +0100


>The 'Firefly' is one of the current generation of super-stealth
>aircraft, still part of the black-budget programme.
>Near silent in operational flight, near silent hover
>capabilities.

<snip>

>The underside lighting configuration is so designed as to give
>conflicting eye-witness accounts of the lighting and indeed
>shape of the craft, the three large circular red lights in each
>point can converge in the centre to form one very large red or
>white light.

>The craft is fitted with various psychotronic devices, including
>certain beam weapons that can induce psychological and
>physiological effects on humans and animals alike, including
>pulsed phased lighting effects that can induce a fit,
>convulsions, or merely varied hallucinagenic states.

>The disrupters, the sound weapons, can disoreintate individuals,
>this can then go on to cause physical displacement, and if the
>signals are strong enough, prove fatal.


I think this one falls into the "Oh please" catagory. He provides
no documentation, and furthermore, I see no strategic value in
such aircraft, especially given the exorbitant amounts of money
necessary to develop and maintain them. Since no military
develops (or contracts elsewhere for the development of) any
aircraft for "the fun of it", I see no purpose for an silently
hovering aircraft that makes people feel strange or makes them
sick.

Militaries need aircraft to gather information about other
countries, to fight their aircraft, to attack strategic
locations, or to train pilots to perform these functions, not
buzz small towns to give them confusing light shows. Any target
can be destroyed from a hundred miles away with cruise missles.

Stealth fighters accomplished their missions in the Gulf War just
fine without "near silent operation".

What could it's purpose possibly be? Unless it carries a payload
and drops it on it's target at a hover from tree top level while
putting on a light show and making the unfortunate victims below
sick first, I'd say it would be pretty useless.

Greg





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                             Re: Sturrock Panel

From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 20:04:03 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 08:47:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Sturrock Panel


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Sturrock Panel
>Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 06:57:21 -0400 >>

Steve, you wrote:

>Getting scientists to admit that there are phenomena that they
>simply can't explain with traditional scientific explanations is
>a good step forward.

Agreed. But getting them to care about it may be even more of a
challenge. Take the recent discovery of "sprites" and "jets"
filmed above thunderstorms in the American midwest. They
represent a genuinely new (to science) and unexplained natural
phenomenon. They generated quite a bit of excitement, no one
questioned their existence, they were filmed numerous times, they
were shown on TV and presented in magazines and newspapers all
over the world. Now, nobody cares, they remain unexplained and
relatively unstudied. This is due in part to their elusive
nature: not all thunderstorms generate sprites and
jets...probably fewer than those that produce tornadoes. So, I
speculate that the difficulty in studying them has led to a
decline in interest and funding. Let us hope that the same fate
does not await ufology's future...scientists briefly show genuine
interest, then disgard the subject for more mundane pursuits,
like the mating habits of rodentia.

Greg






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                 The 'Society For Scientific Exploration' On

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 03:31:43 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 09:15:40 -0400
Subject: The 'Society For Scientific Exploration' On

URL:

http://www.jse.com/skeptics.html


The Journal for Scientific Exploration is published by the Society for
Scientific Exploration which recently argued that some UFO phenomena
need to be taken seriously by scientists.

Stig


*******

BE SKEPTICAL OF THE "SKEPTICS"

(A commentary by Bernhard Haisch, Editor-in-Chief, Journal of
Scientific Exploration)


If seeking publicity for the Society had been the purpose of
publishing the Sturrock-Rockefeller UFO Report, one could take
comfort in the observation of Oscar Wilde: "The only thing worse
than being talked about... is not being talked about." Let the
critics and self-proclaimed skeptics scoff and ridicule... just
so long as they manage to get the SSE website straight. But
publicity was never the purpose. The real purposes were
advancing science and serving a public eager for credible
information.

The San Francisco Chronicle summarized the situation well in an
editorial: "The panel chided fellow scientists for shying away
from UFOlogy, fearing the ridicule of their colleagues. As a
result, 'the problem is in a very unsatisfactory state of
ignorance and confusion' the panel said. With more than 60
percent of the American public open-minded and curious about
UFO's and space aliens, scientists may never have a better
chance to get funding for such research. They should go for it."

The Sturrock-Rockefeller UFO Report is marked by restraint and
conservatism. It makes no claims other than that science owes it
to itself and the public to not simply dismiss UFO reports out
of hand. It concludes without pretense by stating: "The UFO
problem is very complex and it is quite impossible to predict
what might emerge from research into this area." It states
explicitly that the scientists on the panel found no evidence
for the involvement of extraterrestrial intelligence in the
reports presented to them. It urges further scientific
investigation.

A skeptic is one who adheres to the conviction that true
knowledge may be uncertain, who suspends judgement, and who is
willing to examine new evidence. By this definition, the Report
is one of true skepticism.

On the other hand the self-proclaimed skeptics attempting to
discredit the Report and the Society are not skeptics by this
dictionary definition. Their critiques virtually all consist of
scoffing, ridicule, ad hominem attacks, and the amazing claim
that their dogmatic beliefs that certain things are impossible
necessarily constitute laws of nature. It is a modern replay of
the cardinals refusing to look through Galileo's telescope
because truth has already been revealed to them. Interestingly
many of the vocal skeptics are not themselves practicing
scientists.

The ridiculing posture of the skeptical comments is
self-evident. Consider the embarrassingly crude New York Post
caricature of the Report: "And the case for little green men
making landings all over the farm belt in order to kidnap and
then have unusual sex with random hicks in pickup trucks is even
more ridiculous."

Ad hominem attacks are cropping up. One magazine somehow twisted
serious work --published in prestigious physics journals -- on
the quantum vacuum by one physicist involved in the workshop
into the absurd claim that he "designs perpetual motion
machines." In fact, this scientist has actually tested and
debunked a dozen of the "free energy" devices widely touted on
the internet.

The "nutty professor" innuendo has been directed at the panel
director. Never mind that he won the 1986 Hale Prize in Solar
Physics from the American Astronomical Society, the Arctowski
medal in 1990 from the National Academy of Sciences, and the
1992 Space Sciences Award from the 40000 member American
Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics for his "major
contribution to the fields of geophysics, solar physics and
astrophysics, leadership in the space science community, and
dedication to the pursuit of knowledge."

Moving beyond ridicule and innuendo, some of the following
seemingly serious arguments have also been advanced.


* According to CSICOP "The release of the report appears
well-timed to gain publicity for the SSE and their claims. It
occurs a week after the release of the X-Files movie and during
the week of Fourth of July when news is slow." But in fact the
timing of the release simply followed the standard Journal
publication schedule. The Report appeared in the first available
issue following its completion. This was the same as the
previous several years' publication schedule for the June issue
of the Journal.

* Funding UFO research is predicted to damage mainstream
science. Hardly. The total federal civilian research budget is
approximately $35 billion. A mere 0.01 percent of that amount
would be more than enough to begin to make progress.

* The Journal is said to advocate such New Age concepts as
reincarnation. In reality the articles published on such topics
are not New Age speculation and metaphysics. Rather they have
been scientific detective work involving such hard evidence as
searching medical records of death wounds on one individual for
possible correlation with birthmarks on an individual claiming
to remember that previous life. The data are presented and
analyzed in scientific fashion without claiming any proof of
reincarnation. Similar treatment is given to other topics whose
titles are sometimes given a giggle spin by the "skeptics."
(Interestingly this same sort of ridiculing of topics used to
infuriate the scientific community when Sen. Proxmire used these
tactics in his "Golden Fleece Awards" to attack the National
Science Foundation.)

The most frequent "skeptical" argument, of course, is that there
is "not a shred of evidence" and that UFO claims were long ago
carefully and open-mindedly examined and rejected in the Condon
Report. What the "skeptics" either never bothered to read or
choose to ignore is that there is substantial evidence in the
roughly 1000-page body of that report itself and Condon's
dismissive summary bears hardly any relation to what the rest of
the report says. Condon's aim was to put an end to serious UFO
investigation, and that is how he slanted his summary, never
mind what was in the actual report. Indeed the rest of the
Condon report contains substantial "shreds of evidence." An
analysis of the Condon Report by Sturrock was published in Vol.
1. of JSE and will be posted on the web shortly.


Cut through the ridicule and search for factual information in
most of the skeptical commentary and one is usually left with
nothing. This is not surprising. After all, how can one
rationally object to a call for scientific examination of
evidence?

Be skeptical of the "skeptics."








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                         Flying Saucers And Frisbees

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 04:11:53 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 09:19:50 -0400
Subject: Flying Saucers And Frisbees


From: The Philadelphia Enquirer.

URL:

http://www.phillynews.com:80/inquirer/98/Jul/16/lifestyle/QUEST16.htm

Stig

*******

July 16, 1998


Kids' talk

With Peter Mucha


Here are some questions from past columns.

<snipped>

Q How did Frisbees get their name?

-- John Gilbert, St. William School, Philadelphia

A The name came from the Frisbie Baking Co. of Connecticut.
Stamped on the bottom of its pie tins was the name Frisbie. In
the 1940s, throwing and catching the tins became popular with
students at New England colleges.

Now switch to the 1950s. Americans were fascinated by reports and
movies about UFOs, often called flying saucers. So a Californian,
Walter Frederick Morrison, invented a toy flying disk. In 1957,
the Wham-O Co. started selling his Pluto Platters.

One day, though, while visiting colleges in the East, Wham-O
president Richard Knerr was surprised to see students tossing pie
tins and calling them "Frisbies." So Knerr trademarked the name
Frisbee (with two e's) and used it for Wham-O's toy disks. With a
couple of years, sales were flying high.

<snipped>


=A91998 Philadelphia Newspapers Inc.






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               Galileo Reveals Hints Of Ganymede's Past Ocean

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 05:35:42 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 09:21:04 -0400
Subject: Galileo Reveals Hints Of Ganymede's Past Ocean

AP via CNN. URL:

http://cnn.com/TECH/space/9807/15/galileo.ganymede.ap/index.html

*******


Jupiter's moon Ganymede has crater chain, hints of past ocean


July 15, 1998
Web posted at12:37 PM ET

LOS ANGELES (AP) -- New images show Jupiter's giant moon Ganymede has
geologic hints of an early subsurface ocean and a chain of 13 craters
that could have come from a broken-up comet.

But scientists still can't say whether life ever existed there.

"We don't know and that's why we're out there looking," said James
Head, a Brown University planetary scientist. "You have heat, liquid
water, organic material coming in from impacts from meteorites. The
ingredients are there."

The close-ups of Ganymede's rich geology were being released today by
NASA. The unmanned Galileo spacecraft captured them during several
flybys, some within just a few hundred miles of the surface, in June
1996 and June 1997.

Ganymede, the largest moon in the solar system, is 3,269 miles in
diameter -- bigger than Mercury and three-quarters the size of Mars.
About half its surface is bright, clean ice and half dark,
heavily-cratered terrain made up of "dirty" ice and rocks. Scientists
are looking for signs of liquid water.

The new images suggest that icy volcanoes spewed water instead of the
rocky lava seen on Earth, Head, a member of the Galileo imaging team,
said Tuesday from his office in Providence, R.I.

Because much of the moon is icy, scientists have wondered whether there
is a warmer liquid layer beneath.

"The Galileo images show us quite dramatically that about half of the
surface has been renewed by some process that put bright terrain out
onto 50 percent of the surface," Head said.

>From images snapped by the Voyager missions of the late 1970s,
scientists suspected this was water, Head said. The water-spewing
volcanoes suggested by the latest photos could provide the mechanism
for how the ice was deposited.

At least 1 billion years into its history, Ganymede very likely had a
global ocean, like the one that scientists suspect lies beneath the
frozen expanses of another of Jupiter's moons, Europa.

Europa, one of the major targets of the search for life in the solar
system, is the focus of the two-year Galileo mission extension.

Galileo is teaching scientists that Ganymede "probably had a global
ocean earlier in its history, but didn't continue on with the kind of
activity Europa had and has still today," Head said.

Still, he said the new Ganymede images show several signs of water:
large valleys, where it appears water flowed down into surrounding
lowlands. Hot water from volcanoes may have melted ice and created the
channels.

The images show remains of old craters and basins in dark terrain,
believed to date from early in the history of the 4.5 billion-year-old
solar system.

Head described the chain of craters, spread over about 93 miles, as
like Shoemaker-Levy, the "string of pearls" comet that struck Jupiter
piece by piece in 1994.

The Galileo spacecraft, which spent two years orbiting Jupiter and its
major moons -- Ganymede, Europa, Io and Callisto -- is more than six
months into the Galileo Europa Mission.


Copyright 1998 =BF The Associated Press.






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                 Upcoming TV Documentaries On Greer's Ideas

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 06:01:11 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 09:28:01 -0400
Subject: Upcoming TV Documentaries On Greer's Ideas


American Artists Film Corporation Announces Agreement with
Dr. Steven M. Greer

PR Newswire - July 16, 1998 19:16


ATLANTA, July 16 /PRNewswire/ -- American Artists Film
Corporation (OTC Bulletin Board: AAFC) announced completion of
an agreement with Crossing Point, Inc., a company headed by Dr.
Steven M. Greer, an authority on the subject of extraterrestrial
intelligence. Subject to completion of financing, the agreement
calls for AAFC to produce a series of television documentaries
featuring Dr. Greer's ideas and opinions regarding the existence
of extraterrestrial life. AAFC has six months, with an optional
six-month extension, to securing financing.

Dr. Greer is the founder and international director of the
Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence ("CSETI").
According to CSETI, Dr. Greer has met with and provided
briefings to senior military, intelligence and government
officials in the United States and around the world, including
senior CIA officials, Joint Chiefs of Staff, White House staff,
senior members of Congress and congressional committees, senior
United Nations leadership and diplomats, senior military
officials in the United Kingdom and Europe, and cabinet-level
staff members of the Japanese government, among others.

"This agreement represents a significant opportunity for
American Artists to both showcase our creative talents and
abilities and to be associated with the presentation of the
ideas and opinions of an authority on the subject of
extraterrestrial intelligence," said Robert A. Martinez, Chief
Financial Officer of AAFC.

American Artists Film Corporation, based in Atlanta, Georgia, is
a multi-faceted entertainment company committed to the creation,
production and distribution of original, innovative programming
and films for a variety of media. AAFC has focused its efforts
on creating and producing programming for a number of venues
including television specials, television commercials,
corporate/industrial videos, as well as, developing
made-for-television and theatrical movies and out-of-home Large
Screen Video Display operations.

Forward-Looking Statements:

Except for the historical information contained herein, this
news release may contain forward-looking statements within the
meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1934, as
amended, and may involve risks and uncertainties, including
those relating to the availability of suitable financial
resources, the availability of management, production and
creative personnel, access to suitable distribution channels for
the Company's entertainment products, and favorable reaction to
those products by media, advertisers and audiences, as well as
other risks detailed from time to time in the Company's SEC
reports, including reports on Form 10-KSB for the year ended
July 31, 1997 and Form 10-QSB for the quarters ended April 30,
1998, January 31, 1998 and October 31, 1997.

SOURCE American Artists Film Corporation


CONTACT:
Robert A. Martinez, or
J. Eric Van Atta,
     404-876-7373
fax, 404-885-9831

or

Bob Schu of Desmond Towey & Associates,
     212-888-7600
fax, 212-888-7686
for American Artists Film Corporation/ (AAFC)








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                Re: UFO UpDate: NATO 'Firefly' - Black Budget

From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 22:03:17 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 09:52:32 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: NATO 'Firefly' - Black Budget


>From: Graham M. Wilson <gwilson_spur@lineone.net>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: NATO 'Firefly'
>Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 18:59:31 +0100

>The craft is an equilateral-shaped triangle, each edge, from tip
>to tip, is approx. 184ft.

>The 'Firefly' is one of the current generation of super-stealth
>aircraft, still part of the black-budget programme.

Actually, that's not really true. Firefly was the name given to
the German stealth project cancelled after US pressure in the
1980s. I doubt they'd call a new craft by the same name. There
is stealth or no stealth - not super-stealth. Does this mean
that you agree with my conclusions that they may use active
stealth systems, phased conjugated pulse etc.??

>This is not the alleged 'HALO' product, which is a smokescreen
>designed to lure inquisitive researchers away from the
>'Firefly', Warton are going to great lengths to keep ufologists
>interested in that facility and its craft.

Warton has not gone to any lengths at all. In any case, their
own propaganda and press releases admit their involvement in
advanced stealth projects. I do not spend my time parked outside
Warton because for quite some time operations have been taking
place elsewhere!

Australia is where I'd fly some of these craft.....

I knew about the West Freugh links in 1995 - secret triangular
a/c were flying out of there in 1970!!!

>Near silent in operational flight, near silent hover
>capabilities.

Sounds like LTA with these advanced propellers.

>The underside lighting configuration is so designed as to give
>conflicting eye-witness accounts of the lighting and indeed
>shape of the craft, the three large circular red lights in each
>point can converge in the centre to form one very large red or
>white light.

This seems sensible. Tony Gonsalves came to similar conclusions
about lighting in 1990. We concluded this very early on.

>
>The craft is fitted with various psychotronic devices, including
>certain beam weapons that can induce psychological and
>physiological effects on humans and animals alike, including
>pulsed phased lighting effects that can induce a fit,
>convulsions, or merely varied hallucinagenic states.

This has been possible for years. Non-lethal weapons are very
popular these days....

>The disrupters, the sound weapons, can disoreintate individuals,
>this can then go on to cause physical displacement, and if the
>signals are strong enough, prove fatal.

We'll have to see about that but no witness that I have spoken
to has claimed any side effects (apart from awe) from an FT
sighting. Perhaps only annoyance when their local UFO group has
rushed to the press with an alien story.

So who has died as a result of a triangle sighting?

>I am informed that there are two of these craft in Europe in
>current operation, one is based at Boscombe Down, and shares
>flight operations with Macrihanish. The other craft is based in
>Germany.

Where in Germany? Ramstein???

>The USA have two craft, of slightly different
>configuration. The craft is manned or crewed by NATO personnel,
>it is believed all participating NATO countries supply flight
>crew. Flight simulators are located in the UK, Germany and the
>USA.

This is impossible - far too many people would know and there
would be no operational reason to have crew from 'every' NATO
country......

A 184 foot triangle at Boscombe Down? Which hangar would they
keep it in? Have you ever been to Macrahanish? It's virtually
abandoned although it was used for a couple of exercises
involving paratroops last year (August?).

Remember this, the triangle may well have VTOL ability.
Therefore the need to operate it from the ever-so-long airfield
at Macrahanish doesn't make sense.





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   Jul > Jul 17

               Re: CE: Open Letter to The Cincinnati Enquirer

From: RobIrving@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 00:09:58 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 09:35:22 -0400
Subject: Re: CE: Open Letter to The Cincinnati Enquirer


>From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
>Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 07:16:46 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: CE: Open Letter to The Cincinnati Enquirer

Greg,

>It HAS been recorded properly.

Can of worms, and I'm not sure I want to join you in it, but I
would be interested in your list of examples - like a 'ten best'
characteristics of crop circle 'genuineness'.

>I brought up crop circles to demonstrate the treatment of that
>sort of subject by the media.

In general, I think that phenomena gets the media attention its
loudest proponents deserve. In the case of crop circles my main
complaint is that when the BBC's Late Show interviewed four
circlemakers for a feature on 'abject art' it was deemed
unworthy of broadcast. Maybe the art world just wasn't ready?

Beyond that, the recent NBC show and others like it
notwithstanding, I would argue that the media portrays the
subject in more mysterious terms than the facts encourage.

Rob






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                Re: HEATWAVE '98 - British UFO Studies Centre

From: Rory Lushman <PHUFON@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 06:27:00 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 10:13:44 -0400
Subject: Re: HEATWAVE '98 - British UFO Studies Centre


>Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:16:07 +0000
>From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: BUFOSC - HEATWAVE '98

>From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk
>To: <rbx32@dial.pipex.com>
>Subject: BUFOSC - HEATWAVE '98
>Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:51:44 +0100

>Hello all!

>Welcome to HEATWAVE '98 - the warm message of Summer love and
>affection from the British UFO Studies Centre.

>THE SCUM OF THE EARTH!

>Meanwhile, back in the weird and wonderful world of Ufology
>attempts to stifle the publication of my forthcoming book
>entitled 'UFO Revelation' have failed miserably. The same people
>involved in this pathetic attempt are no doubt in close contact
>with the people who sabotaged Eric Morris's car only hours
>before we were due to travel to Sheffield yesterday (14th July)
>to address the excellent Yorkshire UFO Society.

>A very serious and potentially fatal accident was narrowly
>avoided.........

>The circumstances are as follows; the crime was committed at
>Eric's place of work. 'Inside' knowledge that the work car park
>video camera was operational but that no tape was being used to
>record events was vital to the commission of the crime. There is
>no history of vandalism or car theft at the location in question
>and only ONE person with this information could have committed
>the crime.  This person is also the one behind the libelous
>'SHADOW' leaflets circulated at the back end of last year and in
>early 1998. We believe that this specimen has had the support of
>three other prominent Ufologists, one of them a prominent
>Midlands UFO groupie, and that they are for whatever reason
>desperate to halt our progress and to stop our research into
>man-made UFOs. We also suspect very strongly, and based upon a
>great deal of information provided by decent people close to
>this gang of wasters, that they are desperate to attack Eric
>Morris for reviewing his position on Close Encounters....

>This information is being passed to the local CID.

Dear All,

It is important that the the real facts about Eric's car are
told. A phrase that Tim Matthews likes to use is "potentially
libelous" and this statement is not potentially, it is libelous.

Basically, Tim and Eric are accusing me of this. Firstly lets
get some truths exposed. Tim has only been to Gatley where Eric
and I work a couple of times. As for the statement that there is
no history of car crime at the location is totally untrue. Only
days before Eric had reported on two separate occasions,
undesirables looking around our car park and one of them had
stuck two fingers up at Eric. They actually broke into one car
and slashed another.

The police came and they knew the occupants of the car. We have
the registration number of the car. Tim, please feel free to
check all this with the police before you spout off about
something you have no reliable information on.

This also proves that car thieves will still try to steal from
cars, even though there is a camera there. The camera system has
NEVER had recording facilities on. Also Eric had conveniently
parked his car at the bottom end of the car park, in a blind
spot. This particular area is hidden by a fire escape. Eric
usually moves his car to the front end of the car park, yet on
this night chose not to.

Eric had reported to me, someone in a grey car, driving around
the car park, taking down vehicle registrations. This was the
very night he got his car vandalised.

Sadly there are quite a number of break in crimes on the car
park. I will gladly ask Stockport police to prove that car crime
is a regular event. Eric is well aware of this and I will
contact the police to prove that Eric actually spoke to the
police. If anybody wants to check thefts etc. from our car
park,, then please call Stockport police....let's see who is
telling the truth.

Isn't it funny how Eric's car got vandalised, the night he
decided to give his notice. He claims he left the car park on
Monday night, then realised he'd forgot to give his notice, so
he reversed, and posted his notice through our letter box at
work. The person who ( if any ) broke into his car must have
been psychic or this is a spooky coincidence. I was on my day
off Tuesday and did not find out until Wednesday that he'd given
his notice, am I psychic?

Now funnily enough, I had forgot my house keys and turned around
to go back for them, yet I did not see Eric reversing up the car
park, to post his notice.

Eric rang me on Wednesday morning and said he'd had problems
with his car on the way home but had topped it up. So he was
aware of the problem before he set off to Sheffield, yet he
still went. He claims the car set on fire, on the way back from
the meeting. The police were called and an ambulance to give
them oxygen.

I spoke to a Fiat dealer as Eric owns a Fiat, and they told me
the most that would happen if an engine ran out of water, would
be the cylinder head could blow. Eric, cars are fitted with a
thermostat, when the needle points to the red, it means stop or
else there will be trouble with the car. Anyone with sense would
not plough on, especially as they knew the car had been leaking
earlier in the day.

He however told a colleague, that the AA ( Automobile
Association ) was at his house on the Tuesday morning, fixing
his car. They never made a very good job of this, if it still
broke down.

It gets better. I decided to ring the police in Huddersfield and
check this claim out. The police have no log of the incident. I
have spoke to the CID and they have no record of the incident.
Eric has been saying this is attempted murder to colleagues. If
it was such a serious crime, why have the CID or SOCO,( Scenes
Of Crimes Officers ) not visited the site of the alleged attack.
The CID advised me to seek legal help and this is what I am
doing.

I have spoke to Stockport police, Northwich police and they gave
me the same answer, no incident has been reported.

Anyone of you out there, are quite welcome to check all the
above, with the various police stations.

These are the questions that need answering,

1, How does Tim know there is no car crime at our car park.

2, Which police station was the incident reported to.

3, On what date was it reported

4, What was the crime number that the police gave them.

5, Is there a log for the ambulance dashing to their mercy.
   (This is being checked)

6, Where was the car impounded for SOCO tests.

7, How did they get the car back home if it was damaged by fire.

8, Is there a log or the AA calling to fix Eric's car.

9, Why would they try to get somewhere if they knew their car
   was faulty.

Tim Matthews has tried to link me to larry O'Hara, he uses the
phrase probably. He has written and emailed other people with
this information and they have kindly sent it to me. He talks
about a smear campaign and yet writes umpteen letters trying to
get people to stop associating with us. There is no link between
me and Larry O'Hara. Try another one Tim, you've exhausted this
angle. Who is Larry O'Hara? He is someone who Tim has had a few
run ins with before Tim entered ufology. I will let Tim explain
that connection.

He says to others that our group PHUFON is too small to be a
threat, so why does he keep on about us if were are so small. He
says other groups in Lancashire are small. Obviously Tim
believes the Godzilla hype, "Size Does Matter." Does having more
members make you a better group......

This is what Eric says about the Compuserve UFO Forum. He
emailed this to a colleague.

>>Chris, I don't have enough hard drive memory to enter the
>>UFO Forum. Is there any remedy to put this right I know it's
>>a load of rubbish on it, but I would like to enter it for a
>>laugh at all these saddened ufologists who think they are
>>someone, and have a passion for allegedly going around messing
>>up car's, nearly killing the driver's and passenger's.

>>Thank you for  the e.mail message, I got it, and although I
>>am leaving the cinema, I hope you get the 'chief's' position.
>>Don't let them tread on you and take advantage, because the
>>scumbags will. I did tell Rory I thought we came worse off
>>during the summer holiday's with longer hours and same pay,
>>despite the usherette's being paid by the hour.He saifd that
>>he counteracted this by splitting up the day and us going
>>home early. Did I have 'missing time' last year?

>>I must have been bloody abducted by John Merryweather's
>>alien being's as I did not have slipt days.

>>I do hope everything works out for you, because you deserve
>>better than the cinema,  honestly, I was surprised when I
>>was offered =A3****p an hour, I can get you at least =A3* an
>>hour, plus travelling >>expenses as well. An agency I hope to
>>join pay ** per mile after the first ten miles!!!

Note:- I deleted the amounts of pay as this is personal
information.

>>I have not heard off the law about Huddersfield tomorrow,
>>but I believe you are being called in anyway.
>>Watch your car, it could be you next, I am going to find out
>>who did my car,already I have received some phone calls naming
>>names and I am following their movements up.

>>Please let me know about the hard drive, can it be compressed
>>again? Is it games?

>>I will still use you as my consultant computer engineer and
>>advertise you.

>>see ya soon hopefully, keep taking the viagra
>>eric.

I challenge Eric to name the names.

Now see below what Tim puts in the original message.

>As you may know by now, Eric is a qualified and Registered SEN
>who has worked for many years as a Psychiatric Nurse. He spent
>two years running the 'Abduction Research and Counselling
>Centre' from 1994 and he gained quite a bit of publicity as a
>result of this bold effort. He concluded, after a great deal of
>research and having met several dozen 'experiencers', that in
>all but a two cases nothing real (at least not abduction by
>aliens whereby 'victims' are taken onboard a 'spaceship',
>examined, experimented upon and returned to their point of
>origin) took place.

There is nothing wrong with changing your opinion based on new
evidence. However if we take a look at Issue 7 of Eric's
magazine, INTELLIGENCE, he says this of abductions on page 9.

>>In recent months, I have met, personally over twenty people
>>who have been abducted.

In issue 8 of INTELLIGENCE, page 5, Eric writes

>>BUFOSC know from their own investigations that this is a normal
>>practice during abduction , the hybrid breeding programme and
>>subsequent bonding between mother and offspring is a common
>>practise, however cruel and callous it appears to the human
>>race.

Eric enjoys nursing and I wish him well with that.

I have never tried to stifle Tim's new book, in fact I can't
wait for it to come out. Tim obviously needs to take this up
with whoever is doing it. I'm sure and I have said to Tim, that
it will be popular and if its in his usual style, it will be
well written.

I met up with Eric at work back in June and we decided that the
hostilities between ourselves should cease. We had kept our end
of the deal, yet still we got messages, letter and emails from
people, showing us that they had not dropped it.

I ask them to prove their accusations. I am ready to go to court
over this and other incidents, are they?

Either put up, or shut up.

So, the choice is theirs, carry on with this line of attack and
I will take it further, or drop it. We will get off your case
and you get off ours...fair enough.

I intend to inform Stockport police and get them to investigate
this further.

Cheers


Rory Lushman.






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   Jul > Jul 17

                 Re: NATO 'Firefly' - Black Budget Stealth?

From: "Donnie W. Shevlin" <dshevlin@primary.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 09:06:53 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 10:31:41 -0400
Subject: Re: NATO 'Firefly' - Black Budget Stealth?


> From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
> Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 21:16:28 EDT
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: NATO 'Firefly' - Black Budget Stealth?

> >From: Graham M. Wilson <gwilson_spur@lineone.net>
> >To: <updates@globalserve.net>
> >Subject: NATO 'Firefly'
> >Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 18:59:31 +0100

> >The 'Firefly' is one of the current generation of super-stealth
> >aircraft, still part of the black-budget programme.
> >Near silent in operational flight, near silent hover
> >capabilities.

> <snip>

> I think this one falls into the "Oh please" catagory. He provides
> no documentation, and furthermore, I see no strategic value in
> such aircraft, especially given the exorbitant amounts of money
> necessary to develop and maintain them. Since no military
> develops (or contracts elsewhere for the development of) any
> aircraft for "the fun of it", I see no purpose for an silently
> hovering aircraft that makes people feel strange or makes them
> sick.

> Militaries need aircraft to gather information about other
> countries, to fight their aircraft, to attack strategic
> locations, or to train pilots to perform these functions, not
> buzz small towns to give them confusing light shows. Any target
> can be destroyed from a hundred miles away with cruise missles.

> Stealth fighters accomplished their missions in the Gulf War just
> fine without "near silent operation".

> What could it's purpose possibly be? Unless it carries a payload
> and drops it on it's target at a hover from tree top level while
> putting on a light show and making the unfortunate victims below
> sick first, I'd say it would be pretty useless.

> Greg

I agree. It seems to me to be one of those 'I know a man who
knows a man that says.....' scenarios. And you know that we are
supposed to accept this verbatim. Yet, if a first party story
hits here about a possible sighting; photos, documentation, trace
materials and skin samples would be necessary before anyone would
even listen to you. I would subject his story to the same
scrutiny.

Donnie





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   Jul > Jul 17

                           Re: UFOs and Power Loss

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 08:08:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 10:17:04 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs and Power Loss

>From: Moderator UFO UpDates

>File Name: BLKOUT65.TXT
>
> Key date: 01-15-96
> Keyed by: Errol Bruce-Knapp - UFO UpDates Toronto.

>Excerpted from:

>UFO Sightings, Landings and Abductions - The Documented Evidence
>by
>Yurko Bondarchuk

>Published by: Methuen Publications, Toronto, 1979
>ISBN 0-458-94160-3

>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

>>From Chapter 9 - The E.M. Effect and Power Blackouts
>>both the UFO and the Soviet satellite explanations:

<snip>

>     The spindle-shaped thing could have been a UFO--but it
>     certainly wasn't. It was nothing more than an optical
>     ghost, the result of reflections between the elements
>     of an air-spaced lens.(16)


This is a reference to lens flare.  We've all seen this in still pics and
in the movies, and it generally takes the form of a series of ghost images
in the shape of the lens diaphragm.  It is caused by internal reflections
of bright light inside the lens.

But this photo was supposed to have been taken during the blackout, or at
least that is what the text implies.  What would be the bright light source
that caused this lens flare????

Has anyone here seen the photo referred to?

Bob








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                       Re: Kevin McClure and Nazi UFOs

From: Jean-Luc Rivera <PSaintc798@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 11:30:49 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 12:36:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Kevin McClure and Nazi UFOs

Dear Jack,

In a message dated 07/17/1998 8:41:25 AM, you wrote:

>Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 17:38:39 -0500
>From: Jack Veach <pinegap@flash.net>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Kevin McClure and Nazi UFOs

>Mr. McClure makes some very positive statements debunking a
>great deal of untruths about Nazi UFOs...

<snip>

>I hope that will clear some things up for Mr. McClure with
>respect to Vanguard Science and Mr. Vesco and hopefully all of
>us can clear the riddle of the Nazi UFOs from all the smoke and
>mirrors that unfortunately come to the fore on something of this
>nature.

>Yours truly,

>Jack Veach
>pinegap@flash.net

The above mentioned subject - nazis UFOs - is one of the most
enduring myths in ufology.

I would like to inform all french reading list members that the
most comprehensive and definitive study as of today is: " Un
mythe technologique: la legende du V7 " (A technological myth:
the V7 legend) by Joseph Altairac.

He covers extensively the story since its origins after the war,
studies all the potential candidates to the title of nazi saucer,
has a lot of little known pictures and a great bibliography.

It has been published in: 'Scientifictions' numero 1 - Volume 2,
1997

Editions ENCRAGE
B.P.  0451
80004 AMIENS CEDEX 1
FRANCE

The publication is a beautiful book containing also an article on
satanic ritual abuse by Sherrill Mulhern and a very long and
detailed study by Michel Meurger The Loch Ness monster: From
Folklore to Speculative Zoology'.

I strongly recommend the book to all.

Regards.

Jean-Luc Rivera







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               Re: The 'Society For Scientific Exploration' On

From: Don Ecker <decker@ufomag.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 08:30:21 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 12:42:52 -0400
Subject: Re: The 'Society For Scientific Exploration' On


>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 03:31:43 +0200
>Subject: The 'Society For Scientific Exploration' On Skeptics

>BE SKEPTICAL OF THE "SKEPTICS"

>(A commentary by Bernhard Haisch, Editor-in-Chief, Journal of
>Scientific Exploration)
>
>If seeking publicity for the Society had been the purpose of
>publishing the Sturrock-Rockefeller UFO Report, one could take
>comfort in the observation of Oscar Wilde: "The only thing worse
>than being talked about... is not being talked about." Let the
>critics and self-proclaimed skeptics scoff and ridicule... just
>so long as they manage to get the SSE website straight. But
>publicity was never the purpose. The real purposes were
>advancing science and serving a public eager for credible
>information.

>The Sturrock-Rockefeller UFO Report is marked by restraint and
>conservatism. It makes no claims other than that science owes it
>to itself and the public to not simply dismiss UFO reports out
>of hand. It concludes without pretense by stating: "The UFO
>problem is very complex and it is quite impossible to predict
>what might emerge from research into this area." It states
>explicitly that the scientists on the panel found no evidence
>for the involvement of extraterrestrial intelligence in the
>reports presented to them. It urges further scientific
>investigation.

>On the other hand the self-proclaimed skeptics attempting to
>discredit the Report and the Society are not skeptics by this
>dictionary definition. Their critiques virtually all consist of
>scoffing, ridicule, ad hominem attacks, and the amazing claim
>that their dogmatic beliefs that certain things are impossible
>necessarily constitute laws of nature. It is a modern replay of
>the cardinals refusing to look through Galileo's telescope
>because truth has already been revealed to them. Interestingly
>many of the vocal skeptics are not themselves practicing
>scientists.


This should surprise no one. Any serious inquiry into the UFO
subject, going back to day one, when it was first recognized as
some type of unusual phenomenon, UFOs have been ridiculed. The
debate has moved well past whether there really are lights that
are seen in the sky. There are and they have been observed on
the ground, in the air and on radar screens in a number of cases
all at the same time.

The only thing that has ever made sense, and I have been saying
it for years is that some of these cases impact national
security. The very item that the U.S. Military has said for
years, that they don't do. And when national security is
impacted, all the stops are then pulled out. It should be
obvious to anyone that has studied this for any length of time,
that the last thing that anyone buried deep in government that
has a handle on the secrets will want to happen, is to have a
panel of "open minded scientists" to honestly study UFOs and
what they "might be". And now the "open minded scientists" are
getting a taste of the ridicule factor that we have all
experienced, that have been chasing this subject. I was not
surprised at all by the above events. Were you?

Don Ecker
UFO Magazine
http://www.ufomagazine.com

--
Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with
confidence.








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   Jul > Jul 17

                     BULLETIN -- Col. Philip Corso Dies

From: Michael Lindemann <CNINews1@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 17:32:02 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 18:43:33 -0400
Subject: BULLETIN -- Col. Philip Corso Dies

CNI NEWS BULLETIN:

Col. Philip J. Corso (U.S. Army, ret.) died at approximately
11:15 pm EDT on Thursday, July 16, 1998. He was 83.

Corso, who was widely known for his controversial 1997 book, "The
Day After Roswell," suffered a massive heart attack in early June
of this year but made a remarkable recovery. He was at home on
July 16 and was said to be feeling fine when he apparently
suffered a second heart attack. According to a family source,
Col. Corso died at or enroute to a hospital in Palm Beach,
Florida.

Details are sketchy at this time. CNI News is awaiting further
information from the Corso family.

Meanwhile, condolences may be sent to the family of Philip Corso,
Jr., Colonel Corso's son, care of the Roswell UFO Museum.  Send
attn: Philip Corso Jr., PO Box 2221, Roswell, NM  88202; fax
(505) 625-1907; email care of deon@roswell.net.

Further information will be posted to the CNI News web site as it
becomes available.  http://www.cninews.com






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               Chat with Alan Boyle, Editor MSNBC's Space News

From: Yvonne Hedenland <vonni_h@email.msn.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 13:07:08 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 22:52:24 -0400
Subject: Chat with Alan Boyle, Editor MSNBC's Space News


MSNBC sees over 3.8 million hits a day according
to recent 3rd party audits and perhaps one of the
most popular sections is the Space News division
headed up by Alan Boyle.  Boyle brings an acute
awareness of the public's need for truth and quick
information to his role in presenting the news.

In his recent audio interview with the UFO Forum,
(available now at http://forums.msn.com/ufo)
he discusses how valuable the internet has been
in presenting instant feedback from the general
audience.  However, as we pointed out, is this a
two edged sword?  When incorrect information
gets rushed out in order to satisfy our needs, can
it damage our understanding of what is truly going
on in one of the most influential yet controversial
portions of modern science?

Join the UFO Forum and Alan Boyle on Sunday,
July 19th, 7pm, PT at http://forums.msn.com/ufo

The Briefing Room chat can be accessed by any IRC
client. The chat server name is publicchat.msn.com
and the room or channel name is #briefing.







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   Jul > Jul 17

                            Re: 'Sturrock Panel'

From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 18:49:30 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:01:47 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Sturrock Panel'


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Sturrock Panel'
>Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 19:04:44 -0400

>>From: Francis Ridge <slk@EVANSVILLE.NET>
>>Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 07:54:45 -0500
>>Subject: Re: 'Sturrock Panel'
>>To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

>snip<

>>1) 106,000 sightings on computer (UFOCAT)
>>2) 3,000-plus sightings from aircraft (Dr. Richard Haines)
>>3) 489 radar cases, many radar/visual (Dominique Weinstein)
>>4) 363 radar cases, 76 as R/V!!! (US Air Force records)
>>5) 5600 trace cases, 4104 with UFO sightings!!!! (CUFOS)
>>6) 185 E-M cases involving aircraft (Haines)
>>7) Over 500 cases E-M effects with UFOs (CUFOS)
>>8) Many hundreds of just GOOD close encounters
>>9) And 701 Blue Book unknowns of various types

>Indeed.  However, I would add that if any hard evidence in
>support of the subjects mentioned above were to surface, I would
>certainly expect that to be reviewed by the scientific community
>as well.

The above mentioned are not "subjects", they are documented cases,
and they look pretty "surfaced" to me. Why don't you stroll over to the
water's edge and have a look for yourself?

Greg








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   Jul > Jul 17

                        Lazar Critique By A Physicist

From: Keith Woodard <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 14:58:19 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:00:33 -0400
Subject: Lazar Critique By A Physicist


On sci.skeptic today, Dr. David Morgan divulged the location of
his critique of some of Bob Lazar's statements.  The URL is:

http://www.physics.wm.edu/~morgan/files/critique.html

Dr. Morgan is a particle physicist and the The College of William
& Mary in Williamsburg, Virginia.

Kind regards,

Keith






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               Re: The 'Society For Scientific Exploration' On

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 15:55:38 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 22:56:57 -0400
Subject: Re: The 'Society For Scientific Exploration' On


>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 03:31:43 +0200
>Subject: The 'Society For Scientific Exploration' On Skeptics

>URL:

>http://www.jse.com/skeptics.html


>The Journal for Scientific Exploration is published by the Society for
>Scientific Exploration which recently argued that some UFO phenomena
>need to be taken seriously by scientists.

>Stig


*******

>BE SKEPTICAL OF THE "SKEPTICS"

>(A commentary by Bernhard Haisch, Editor-in-Chief, Journal of
>Scientific Exploration)

About ten years ago I wrote a paper entitled "Skeptical of the
Skeptics." The basic point of the paper was that skeptics had
modified, distorted or ignored UFO data which would conflict with
their explanations.   I incorporated this work into my paper
"Still In Default", which I can email to anyone interested.






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                           New FUFOR Publications

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 15:30:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 22:54:52 -0400
Subject: New FUFOR Publications

At the risk of breaking into the exciting (multi-threaded)
debate that seems to have everyone's attention (please read the
previous as sarcasm), I wanted to make sure that several new
publications available through FUFOR are now available.  This
list has been compiled by comparing FUFOR's July, 1998 listing
with the list available on their WEB site (which I am in the
process of updating.  But in the interest of speed I thought I
would point them out here:

======================== Videotapes:

"Perspectives on the Abduction Phenomenon" -- An abduction panel
disucssion held at the Prince Georges Community College on 23
August 1997.  Panel members: Melanie Green, Dr. Robert Hall,
Debby Regimenti, Dr. S. Peter Resta, Susan Swiatek; 60 minutes
(VHS) -- $16.00

"The 1980 Randlesham Forest Encounter" -- A talk given by Col.
Charles I. Halt (Ret.) at Prince George's Community College on
23 August 1997 concerning his participation in the infamous
Rendlesham Forest UFO incident; 60 minutes (VHS) -- $16.00

Case Investigations:

"Colorado Probe: An Inquiry into the 1995 Salida UFO Sightings
and Videotape" by Jennie Zeidman -- These sightins garnered
considerale publicity when they occurred.  But were UFOs seen or
IFOs?  The author, a veteran investigator, here reveals her
reasons for being skeptical that any spaceships were flying
about Salidan skies; 18 pages, illus., center stapled. -- $8.00

"Aircraft/UFO Encounters: Military, Airliner, Private Pilot's
UFO Sightings from 1916 to 1997" by Dominique Weinstein -- A
tabular listing of over 900 worldwide aircraft -- UFO encounters
arranged chronologically; location, UFO description, and source
codes are included for each entry; 46 pages, stapled -- $5.00

Historical Research

"Government Policy on UFO Information: Its Origins and Status"
by Richard Hall -- This collection of essays is the first in a
series of ISSUE PAPERS to be offered by the Fund on a variety of
issues in UFO research; 89 pages. -- $18.00

"Index to the Case Files of Project Blue Book" Forward by  Don
Berliner -- This massive computerized printout of over 12,700
UFO sightings was produced by the University of Colorado UFO
study in the late-1960s; data codes associated with each
sighting can be deciphered using information provided in the
foreward; 270+ pages, perfectbound. -- $22.00

CD-ROMS & Audiotapes

"FBI & NSA FOIA Information Archive" -- A CD-ROM containing the
FOIA UFO "packets" compiled by the FBI and NSA on their web
sites, the complete Brookings Institution Study released in
1960, and the 1996 Air Force 2025 Report;  Minimum System
Requirements: Windows 95 or Windows NT (also requires
installation of Adobe Acrobat, which is included) -- $15.00

"Portage County, Ohio, UFO Chase, April 17, 1966: Quintanilla
Tape" -- A 90 minute audio cassette tape of Blue Book chief Maj.
Hector Quintanilla and NICAP investigator William Weitzel
interviewing witnesses involved in the April 1966 Portage, Ohio
UFO sighting; tape accompanied by 28 page booklet with case
summary; witness statements, and partial tape transcript. --
$10.00

==========================

All items are available through the Fund for UFO Research and
for details on how they may be orderred, please visit the Fund's
web site at http://www.fufor.org for shipping costs on orderred
materials and an order form that can be printed out to make it
easier to make your request.

All profits from the sale of these items will go to help fund
research into the UFO phenomenon.


Steve Kaeser
steve@konsulting.com








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   Jul > Jul 17

                 Re: NATO 'Firefly' - Black Budget Stealth?

From: Kerry Ferrand <kferrand@rocketmail.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 18:48:06 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:08:11 -0400
Subject: Re: NATO 'Firefly' - Black Budget Stealth?


> From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
> Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 21:16:28 EDT
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: NATO 'Firefly' - Black Budget Stealth?

Sounds like some of this is based on garbled information. There
was a (until recently) secret West German stealth aircraft
project called "Lampyridae" (firefly) in the 1980s. However it
was a small single person fighter with a pure air-to-air mission.
Interestingly they independently came up with the same faceted
surface technology as the F-117. Although full scale mockups were
built it never flew and was declassified in 1995.

K







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   Jul > Jul 17

                            Re: 'Sturrock Panel'

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 15:55:14 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 22:55:49 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Sturrock Panel'


>
>From: Francis Ridge <slk@EVANSVILLE.NET>
>Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 07:54:45 -0500
>Subject: Re: 'Sturrock Panel'
>To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM


>With:

>1) 106,000 sightings on computer (UFOCAT)
>2) 3,000-plus sightings from aircraft (Dr. Richard Haines)
>3) 489 radar cases, many radar/visual (Dominique Weinstein)
>4) 363 radar cases, 76 as R/V!!! (US Air Force records)
>5) 5600 trace cases, 4104 with UFO sightings!!!! (CUFOS)
>6) 185 E-M cases involving aircraft (Haines)
>7) Over 500 cases E-M effects with UFOs (CUFOS)
>8) Many hundreds of just GOOD close encounters
>9) And 701 Blue Book unknowns of various types

>If you're honest and want to get to the bottom of the UFO, you
>must face the facts.

>Francis Ridge


Tell 'em, Francis!






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                 Re: NATO 'Firefly' - Black Budget Stealth?

From: Max Burns <AlienHype1@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 16:22:51 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 22:58:31 -0400
Subject: Re: NATO 'Firefly' - Black Budget Stealth?


>From: Graham M. Wilson <gwilson_spur@lineone.net>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: NATO 'Firefly'
>Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 18:59:31 +0100

>The 'Firefly' is one of the current generation of super-stealth
>aircraft, still part of the black-budget programme.
>Near silent in operational flight, near silent hover
>capabilities.

<snipped>

Graham if it's stealth how come we can all see these craft?

Max





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   Jul > Jul 17

                         Re: UFOR: Chupacabra Update

From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <pharaoh@web2000.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 20:07:09 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:07:20 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOR: Chupacabra Update


>Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:18:07 -0400 (EDT)
>From: Francisco Lopez - UFOR <d005734c@dc.seflin.org>
>Subject: Chupacabra Crisis Update
>To: updates@globalserve.net

>Maybe the best direct source for information regarding the
>Chupacabras is Journalist and UFO Researcher Jorge Martin at
>jmartin@coqui.net, also, author Scott Corrales at Lornis@aol.com

<snip>

> Both Martin and Corrales wrote excellent books on this
> phenomenon.

> Francisco

Francisco forgot;

"MIAMI CHUPACABRAS"
The first step to a serious study of what is known as the
"chupacabras".  It is an orderly collection of data, photographs,
and interviews with witnesses.

A detailed investigation of the events in Miami. Softcover,
1997,60 pgs. Send $9.95 to Pharaoh Productions, P.O.Box 960771,
Miami, Fl 33296







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                          Nua Blather: On the Boyle

From: Dave Walsh <dave@nua.ie>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 17:03:51 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:03:24 -0400
Subject: Nua Blather: On the Boyle

*******************************************************************
NUA BLATHER  NUA BLATHER NUA BLATHER
Weekly free email of Dogma Destruction,
Forteana and High Weirdness

By Daev Walsh   Email: blather@nua.ie
Web: http://www.nua.ie/blather/
*******************************************************************
July 17 1998  Published By:  Nua Limited  Vol 2. No. 10
*******************************************************************

ON THE BOYLE

While endeavouring to steer clear of any more weak puns regarding
Boyle, Co. Roscommon, things *do* appear to have come to a head --
again. A surprisingly hefty article appeared on page 4 of The Irish
Independent on Saturday July 11th 1998, containing much apocrypha
drawn by journalist Ian Doherty from Eamon Ansbro (of ICUFOS
http://freespace.virgin.net/ic.ufos/) -- often spoken about in
previous Blathers -- and Betty Myler, a spokesperson of the newly
formed 15-member Western UFO Society in Boyle (mentioned previously
in *Prophecies Fulfilled*
http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives2/issue2no6.html).

Doherty first focuses on Myler; '"People never really looked up to
the sky before, so they weren't seeing any alien activity,"' she
says. She doesn't say *before what*. I will agree that to some
extent, that 'people' just don't look up -- those who have lived or
worked in the upper floors of buildings will know that passers-by are
usually oblivious to the fact that they're being observed from above.

However, besides this, and certainly before the widespread urban and
suburban implementation of street lights, people *certainly* did look
up. In fact, anyone who can escape the pop culture tripwire of the
alleged Roswell incident will be aware that humanity has quite a
history of skywatching, and a cursory examination of most languages
will unearth day-to-day references to the sky, movies *stars* etc.

'"There are a lot of megalithic tombs around the Boyle area, and
Boyle is also placed on a ley line, the invisible magnetic lines that
circle the earth."', The Independent reports Myler as saying. Blather
had to go outside for a breath of fresh air before considering which
face of that statement is best attempted.

Even considering the possibility of hyperbole or misquotation, Myler
is saying quite a lot, yet little of use. There are certainly
possible connections between ancient sites and UFO sightings --
demonstrated in many cases, notably by the *Anders* case in
Vallentuna, Sweden on March 23rd 1974 (See an account
in *Perspectives* by John Spencer, 1989, ISBN 0-7088-4778-1) and
Devereux's studies of the Mochras Fault in Wales ( see *Earthlight
Revelations: UFOs and Mystery Lightform Phenomena* by Paul Devereux,
1989, ISBN: 0-7137-2209-6).

In this case however, I sense a classic case of putting the
ufological cart before the megalithic horse. Examples of such cases
-- including those mentioned above *do not* claim that megalithic
sites are popular picnic spots for Betelgeusian tourists, but rather
argue that particular sites became important in early times due to
environmental phenomena -- i.e. that some such sites may *cause*
anomalous phenomena, such as lights. As for ley lines --
referring to them as 'invisible magnetic lines that circle the earth'
is nothing less, at this point in time, than new-age claptrap. Alfred
Watkins coined the term back in 1921, to describe the apparent
alignments of ancient sites in Britain and other countries, the
existence of which had already been claimed by 19th-century
antiquarians. Aerial photography has since shown that that much of
the earlier ley research was inaccurate, calling much of the original
faith in exact alignments into question. During the 1960s,
the concept got somehow dragged into collusion with the vague concept
"earth energies", and hence the off-rack 'magnetic energy lines'
bunkum we are stuck with today. I passed Paul Devereux, formerly an
editor of *The Ley-Hunter*
(http://www.leyhunter.com/leyhunt/welcome.html) and author of
*Shamanism and the Mystery Lines* [ISBN: 087542189X], a copy of The
Independent article, and his retort was rather illustrative of the
situation:


'Leys! I just couldn't keep pace with all the nonsense that comes
out about 'ley lines'. Everyday someone gets the wrong idea and
plasters it about in public. The subject area is a total mess as far
as popular conception goes. I despair. And because of all the
nonsense, people who would otherwise take the real core of the
subject with interest instead dismiss it all as rubbish. A vicious
circle.'


Worse still, Myler continues, these 'ley lines' provide a form of
'air traffic control for alien craft'. '"A lot of ancient tombs and
ruins happen to be based and built upon these lines. Everybody knows
about the lines in Peru, which are built on a ley line and have some
obvious UFO connection. We know the tombs in Boyle cross a line and
have some significance. We just don't know exactly how."'

Myler refers here to, presumably, to the Nazca lines:
(http://www.peru-explorer.com/nasca.htm)
(http://xensei2.xensei.com/users/john9904/amyst.html)
(http://www.hypergraphia.com/peru/nazca.html)
The lines, to be found on the pampa of Peru, were popularised by UFO
proponent Eric Von Daniken as landing strips for UFOs (a theory
that's always amused me, as not not only do the lines run up and down
hills, but I'm not sure I've ever read an account of alleged
extra-terrestrial visitors who weren't au fait with Vertical Take Off
and Landing (VTOL) technology). After considering the claim that
miles of lines in Peruvian pampa are 'on a ley-line', more fresh air
was certainly required (how damn wide *are* these ley-lines supposed
to be?)

As for the Boyle tombs -- I gather that rather than the Rathcroghan
group to the south of Boyle, she refers to the 14 Carrowkeel (*narrow
quarter* - Joyce) passage-graves atop the Bricklieve mountains to the
west of Lough Arrow, and to the north of the Curlew mountains, on the
Sligo-Roscommon border. I say this as many of the claims of both
ICUFOS and IUFOPRA (http://www.ufoinfo.com/iufopra/) seem to have
centred on the Curlews.

Interestingly, the first person into these graves on their discovery
was none other than Robert Lloyd Praeger, whose *The Way That I Went*
is a regular source of antiquarian commentary for this column (1937,
republished 1997 by The Collins Press ISBN 1-898-256-357). His
account is purely antiquarian, and doesn't offer much in the way of
clues to our inquiries, but the curious can learn more about
Carrowkeel on pages 136-141 of *The Way That I Went*.

Myler also says that '"What some people don't realise is that a clear
blue sky with nothing but a large, silent and extremely fast aircraft
that looks like nothing we could have invented yet is not a weather
balloon or any of the other excuses that sceptics come up with."'

Well, call me a sceptic and thump me with a hot-air balloon ballast
bag, but I would sincerely be surprised to find out that Mrs Myler,
or for that matter, quite a few ETH (Extra-Terrestrial Hypotheses)
are expert in the area of aircraft recognition. The
nothing-we-could-have-invented-yet claim is a painfully recurring
one, I'm afraid. Without claiming that there are such craft
over rural Ireland, are these people aware of craft such as the
Bombardier Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV)
(http://www.services.bombardier.com/htmen/A4A.htm)?



The rest of the Myler section deals with her *belief* that a 'mother
ship' is orbiting the Earth (somewhere amidst the satellite debris,
apparently), spitting out smaller ships, and about her plans to
establish a '"Visitor Education Centre"' for educating humanity about
aliens, and to attract the aliens themselves. She sees it as being a
huge financial boon to the area, as well as becoming an embassy of
sorts. She's also been in contact with the Industrial Development
Authority (http://www.ida.ie), and things are apparently '"looking
good on that front."'. I'm sure that Bord Failte
(http://www.ireland.travel.ie) will be only delighted with this
opening up of a whole new tourism market. . .

If some of this sounds familiar to long-time Blather readers, it's
because Myler appears to be busking from the same ragged hymn-sheet
as Ansbro, who had similar plans for Bantry last year (See Blather
1.11 http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/issue1no11.html). In fact
much of what Myler says, Blather has already heard directly from
Ansbro's gob. As pointed out in earlier issues of Blather:
(*Raining Toads* http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/issue1no9.html
*All Gone Peir Shaped*
http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/issue1no28.html
*Skies Alive*
http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/issue1no31.html)

. . . Ansbro and Co. base their theories on those of a certain Roy
Dutton, enabling them to 'predict encounters at specific locations'
and 'initiate contact - through meditation'.

As also previously mentioned - in *Skies Alive*, Stephen Greer of
CSETI (http://www.cseti.org)*also* bases his theories on Dutton. John
Shirley (http://www.darkecho.com/JohnShirley.html) in a bOING bOING
#15 article, *The Sceptical Believer* reckons that 'despite his lisp,
Greer is a charismatic, powerfully articulate man, probably one of
the best public speakers I've ever heard. And I can definitely
say that he's probably the best damn liar I ever heard and this
possibly makes him, despite his politically correct trappings, the
most dangerous of all UFO cult leaders.'


Back in The Irish Independent article Doherty describes Ansbro as
'most respected Ufologist in Ireland'. Whom by, or dare I ask?

Fair play to the man, for when questioned about increased UFO
activity he answered '"I don't know about a huge increase in the
level of activity, but there is definitely a huge increase in the
levels of awareness. For a long time people were walking around with
their eyes metaphorically glued to the ground."'

Blather can't fault the validity of this statement, but does question
the nature of the 'awareness'. He is then quoted as saying that
'"It's very *gratifying* to see people actually coming around to the
fact that we are not alone"' (Blather's emphasis).

After discussing some of the ICUFOS methods (already discussed in
earlier issues of Blather), The Independent tells us that at 23:00 on
the night of Tuesday 14th of July, there was to be an 'appearance' of
a UFO in the Boyle area, visible for a radius of 15 miles (24km). It
should be interesting to hear what happened, if anything at all.
Doherty, in The Independent says that 'It is this certainty that
unnerves some sceptics'.

Maybe so, but Blather wasn't sufficiently unnerved to miss the an
ICUFOS vigil on Bull Island, on December 14th last
(http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/issue1no32.html). A night of UFOs
was indeed forecast, over Dublin, Boyle and Bantry. Blather's Men In
Bantry checked out the Coomhola site, and found *no-one* from the
ICUFOS there (abduction?), and apart from some splendid meteors - the
tail end of the Geminids and some excitement over incoming airliners,
nothing was seen. Ansbro and Co. in Boyle, of course, saw the
predicted UFOs. Blather was told afterwards, by one the ICUFOS people
on Bull Island, that remarkable things had appeared in the
photographs they had taken of the Dublin sky that night. A promised
viewing of these photos has not, as of yet, materialised.

Ansbro reckons that the aliens '"are so far ahead of us that they
work better through nuance and subtlety"'.

To digress, for a moment. . . apparently -- according to my Oxford
Concise Dictionary, the word *nuance* comes from the French '*nuer*
"to shade", ultimately from Latin *nubes* "cloud"'. Of course,
Blather's inclusion of such a definition could be merely
subjective. . . or nuance.

'"You see that with a lot of encounters where people are primed
for a major change in their psychology by a meeting."' One word,
Eamon: *Epiphany*.

When Doherty asks about 'alien abductions that involve experiments
and coercive sex', Ansbro counters with '"You get back what you put
out, if you have a spirit with the potential for love, you will have
a pleasant experience. The opposite is true also."'

Blather would welcome any helpful correspondence with regard to
*that* statement. . .


With regard to Ansbro's UFO forecast, it's worth bearing in mind that
Astronomy Ireland (http://ireland.iol.ie/~ai/), on getting wind of
the UFO forecasts, issued press-notices concerning the spectacular
conjunction of Jupiter and the Moon.

*Astronomy & Space's* (http://ireland.iol.ie/~ai/astspc/a&sjul.htm
ISSN 0791-8062) Sky Diary for July 1998 tells us that at 2300 on
Tuesday 14th 1998 -- the *exact* time of Ansbro's forecast -- there
was to be a 'spectacular' sighting of Jupiter, which was to be 2.9
degrees off the upper right edge of the 69% sunlit Moon as they rose
in the east'. David Moore of Astronomy Ireland told Blather that:

'I stayed up til dawn and only got to see Jupiter through a crack in
the clouds, and then the Moon through another crack but *not
simultaneously*! It would have been spectacular. Other than "normal"
predictable events like that above I'm not aware of anything else
unusual that happened last night.'

Is it any coincidence that there was a UFO forecast on such a night?
I think not.



ERRATA
Two weeks ago, in *Silly Season - Monsters, UFOs, etc.*
(http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives2/issue2no8.html), I somehow
managed to say that Donegal was in 'north-eastern' Ireland. This
wasn't due to any geographic ineptitude on my part, it was simply due
to common-or-garden carelessness, and I wish to thank Ciaran Conliffe
for catching me out.

Dave Walsh
July 17th 1998



Feedback and comments to <blather@nua.ie>

Have your say: http://www.nua.ie/blather/blabber

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Snail: Astronomy Ireland, P.O.Box 2888, Dublin 1, Ireland.
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CALL FOR PAPERS CALL FOR PAPERS CALL FOR PAPERS CALL FOR PAPERS

Internet World Ireland Conference
Venue: Dublin   Date: Tuesday, October 20th 1998
Conference Title: The Network Economy
Conference Organisers: Internet World Ireland, Nua

The Internet creates a Network Economy, a network connecting people
and business, not machines. This conference will explore the business
rules for operating with a network environment.

The conference organisers are honoured to have Esther Dyson as
keynote speaker. Naming her Number 12 in Upside's Elite 100, Upside
recently wrote that Dyson's "stature is based entirely on her
ability to influence others with her ideas rather than directly
control companies or huge amounts of capital."

The topics that the Network Economy Conference will to cover include:
principles for doing business within a network, online communities,
relationship marketing, online brand building success stories, case
studies that illustrate best business practice within a network
environment.

Send a 200 word synopsis of proposed talk before July 15th to:
speak@nua.ie

************************************************************


NUA INTERNET SURVEYS
A weekly newsletter, Internet Surveys is a free digest of the most
interesting surveys containing data relating to the Internet.
It is available by sending an email to
<surveys-request@lists.best.com>
with the word "subscribe" in the body of the message.

NUA WHAT'S NEW
A monthly newsletter, What's New is a free monthly newsletter
highlighting the new additions, happenings and changes at Nua.
It is available by sending an email to
<whatsnew-request@lists.best.com>
with the word "subscribe" in the body of the message.

NUA NEW THINKING
New Thinking is a free, weekly, 500-word email column, whose
objective is to contribute to a practical philosophy for The
Digital Age. It is available by sending an email to
<newthinking-request@lists.best.com>
with the word "subscribe" in
the body of the message.

*******************************************************************

SPONSORSHIP:
While Blather will always remain free to the subscriber, Nua is
always willing to talk to interested parties with regard to
sponsorship.
Contact Daev Walsh: <daev@nua.ie>

*******************************************************************

For the Blather archives, please go to:
http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/index.html


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NUA MISSION STATEMENT
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To excel in the establishment and development of online relationships
and brands.

For further information on how Nua can help your organisation get the
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   Jul > Jul 18

               Re: The 'Society For Scientific Exploration' On

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:11:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 08:45:42 -0400
Subject: Re: The 'Society For Scientific Exploration' On


>Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 08:30:21 -0700
>From: Don Ecker <decker@ufomag.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: The 'Society For Scientific Exploration' On Skeptics


>>BE SKEPTICAL OF THE "SKEPTICS"

>>(A commentary by Bernhard Haisch, Editor-in-Chief, Journal of
>>Scientific Exploration)

>>If seeking publicity for the Society had been the purpose of
>>On the other hand the self-proclaimed skeptics attempting to
>>discredit the Report and the Society are not skeptics by this
>>dictionary definition. Their critiques virtually all consist of
>>scoffing, ridicule, ad hominem attacks, and the amazing claim
>>that their dogmatic beliefs that certain things are impossible
>>necessarily constitute laws of nature. It is a modern replay of
>>the cardinals refusing to look through Galileo's telescope.
>>because truth has already been revealed to them. I


>This should surprise no one. Any serious inquiry into the UFO
>subject, going back to day one, when it was first recognized as
>some type of unusual phenomenon, UFOs have been ridiculed. The
>debate has moved well past whether there really are lights that
>are seen in the sky. There are and they have been observed on
>the ground, in the air and on radar screens in a number of cases
>all at the same time.

>The only thing that has ever made sense, and I have been saying
>it for years is that some of these cases impact national
>security. The very item that the U.S. Military has said for
>years, that they don't do. And when national security is
>impacted, all the stops are then pulled out.

A careful reading of the early history through fall of 1948 when
General Vandenburg rejected the Estimate of the Situation shows
just how seriously the top brass considered this UFO problem. As
I demonstrated in "The UFO/FBI Connection/ the REAL X- files"
(manuscript/book recently reviewed in UFO MAGAZINE), the experts
in back-engineering enemy tecnology or "foreign technology"
worked at Wright Patterson AFB for Project Sign, Keep in mind
that they were the recognized military authorities for what they
did... technical intellgence. They studied the saucer sightings
in 1947 and 1948 and concluded that there was no logical earthly
explanation. The presented this conclusion to General
Vandenburg, Chief of Staff of the Air Force and he essentially
told them "Sorry, wrong answer." Although they had used their
best logic and analysis, and no doubt were aware of the
implications of their report (ET's or EBEs, etc.), they felt
sufficiently confident to present a report to the General. He
told the experts they were wrong.... find other answers to the
questions "What are they/where do they come from/ what are they
doing here?"

This was a "watershed event " in the history of saucers/UFOS,
because after this the only answers to these qestions that the
top brass would allow would within the following general
categories: misidentification, delusion, hoax.

One can only imagine that if Vandenburg HAD accepted the
conclusion of the Estimate, that "inteplanetary thinking" would
have developed within th military intelligence and by the 1950s
the idea of ET's flying around would have leaked out to the
general public and there would have been no 50 year cover up.

We are coming up on the 50th anniversary of that legendary
document. I propose a toast to the Ait Technical Intelligence
operatives who wrote it and suffered the ignominy of being told
"That's not the answer I want.. Give me another answer." We now
know they were right.

Vandenburg's action was the affirmation of the cover up that
(probably) started shortly after Roswell. Not only would
hardware be covered up, but also good sightings. We still live
with that legacy. So, perhaps we should also raise our glasses
high to Vandenburg as well..... for a job well done.... and to
General Ramey before him (of Roswell fame) and to General John
A. Samford after him. (Samford held the July 28, 1952 press
conference in which he called the Washington DC sightings radar
temperature inversions and all unexplained sightings he said
were natural phenomena..... BUT THIS ISN'T WHAT HIS OFFICE TOLD
THE FBI!!!.....see my book.) We have these three gentlement to
thank for the for the situation we are in.


>It should be
>obvious to anyone that has studied this for any length of time,
>that the last thing that anyone buried deep in government that
>has a handle on the secrets will want to happen, is to have a
>panel of "open minded scientists" to honestly study UFOs and
>what they "might be". And now the "open minded scientists" are
>getting a taste of the ridicule factor that we have all
>experienced, that have been chasing this subject. I was not
>surprised at all by the above events. Were you?


General Vandenburg's military cover up and the very potent
"self-cover up" (which derives from the inner depths of the
human soul that doesn't really want to know that there are
"omnipotent" creatures zooming around) have combined to create a
TRADITION that saucers/TRUFOS are trash... a "tarbaby".... a
disease. Anyone touching the subject is immediately tainted,
suspected of being somewhat "off" if not just plain loony
(unless, of course, said person loudly proclaims the party
line).

Hence, as I see, the panel absolutely COULD NOT WOULD NOT even
admit to the liklihood that an unexplained case could be
evidence of ET. About the most they could do was to admit that
at least some sightings are difficult to explain. Can you
imagine the hoopla if they had stated the opinion that one (or
more) sightings was evidence of ET? Heavens To Betsy... the roof
would have caved in on them!! (For a similar reason, don't
expect any official government statement... )

So...
eat, drink,
make  Mary.....uh, merry (or  what/whomever)
for tommorrow they land.






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   Jul > Jul 18

                          Re: The 'SSE' On Skeptics

From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 07:32:47 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 08:58:52 -0400
Subject: Re: The 'SSE' On  Skeptics


>Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 15:55:38 -0400
>From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: The 'Society For Scientific Exploration' On Skeptics
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>About ten years ago I wrote a paper entitled "Skeptical of the
>Skeptics." The basic point of the paper was that skeptics had
>modified, distorted or ignored UFO data which would conflict with
>their explanations. I incorporated this work into my paper
>"Still In Default", which I can email to anyone interested.

But rather than emailing Bruce, the paper can easily be
accessed at:

http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/discussion/indefault.htm

or simply go to the "UFO literature" section of the website via
the main index page:

http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler

and download it from there.





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             New Scientist: ET Bacteria Cause Of Human Diseases?

From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 07:17:46 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 08:55:49 -0400
Subject: New Scientist: ET Bacteria Cause Of Human Diseases?

URL:

http://www.newscientist.com:80/ns/980711/nkidney.html

Stig

*******


[Archive: 11 July 1998]


News


Mean microbes


By Michael Day


Tiny bacteria may cause kidney stones, a scientist in Finland claims.
Olavi Kajander of Kuopio University says these enigmatic "nanobacteria"
surround themselves with mineral shells that could cause harmful
calcium deposits in the body. He even speculates that the bacteria may
have arrived on Earth from elsewhere in the Universe.

Kajander found the bacteria, which are less than 0=B71 micrometres long,
in the blood of humans and cows. He says they are genetically similar
to other established types of bacteria such as Brucella and Bartonella.

In the latest issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of
Sciences (vol 95, p 8274), Kajander and his colleague Neva =C7ift=E7iglu
say the bacteria erect mineral coatings. "They probably provide
excellent shelter," says Kajander. Because the mineral coatings are
similar to the aggregates found in kidney stones, he suspected they
might be the cause of the stones. Sure enough, he found that cells
infected with the nanobacteria developed mineral deposits both inside
and outside. And tests on 30 human kidney stones showed they all
contained the bacteria. "This isn't proof that the nanobacteria cause
kidney stones, but it's very strong evidence," says Kajander.

In a commentary on the research in the same journal (vol 95, p 7846),
Dennis Carson of the University of California at San Diego says that
these bacteria or their close relatives may figure in a host of other
human diseases. These include heart disease, some tumours and dementia
due to abnormal calcium deposition in the brain.

Killing these bacteria would take some time because they are protected
by their mineral coats. But Kajander suggests that long courses of the
antibiotic tetracycline might eradicate them.

John Postgate, emeritus professor of microbiology at Sussex University,
says the nanobacteria may be common bacteria that have shrunk due to
lack of nutrients. However, he would be surprised if they exist in
blood. "Cow's blood doesn't sound like a very nutrient-deficient diet,"
he says. "But we have to keep an open mind on this."

But microbiologist David Roberts of the Natural History Museum in
London argues that these shrunken bacteria could be near starvation in
blood, which can be difficult for some microbes to metabolise. He
suspects there may well be such unusual bugs in the "nanoscopic" world.
"People often fail to realise that life on a microscopic scale is much
more varied than life on a macroscopic scale. It's been around a lot
longer."

Kajander suggests the nanobacteria may have come from space. Unlike
other bacteria, he argues, they could survive the ultraviolet radiation
in space thanks to their mineral coats. "I guess a shell like that
would help bacteria floating around in space," says David Mackay of
NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston. But he adds that the idea is
wildly speculative at this stage.

Nonetheless, NASA has invited Kajander and =C7ift=E7iglu to join its
Astrobiology Institute, an interdisciplinary collaboration between
scientists all over the globe whose aim is to investigate the
possibility of extraterrestrial life and its implications.

NASA hopes to learn from Kajander's technique for culturing
nanobacteria. They are similar to small bacteria found in hot springs,
where many scientists believe life arose (but see New Scientist, print
edition, 11 July 1998, p 10). Nanobacteria may have been among the
earliest life forms on Earth, and possibly on other planets.


>From New Scientist, 11 July 1998

=A9 Copyright New Scientist, RBI Limited 1998






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                                   The Rod

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:17:27 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 09:43:53 -0400
Subject: The Rod

Is there an expert on "rods" on this list?  Until yesterday I was
rather of the opinion of Bob Shell, for example, that the "rods"
were likely insects whizzing close by the video camera. But then
I had a sighting of what seems to fall into that category.

It was in mid afternoon, July 16th, 1998, when I was in my front
yard in Corvallis, OR, admiring the blueness of the sky and lack
of smoky smog that day. While still admiring the visibility, I
looked up to watch a plane go by, N to S, at high elevation angle
above the western horizon. While still facing west with my head
turned up, I suddenly saw this whitish thing zoom by from nearly
overhead traveling straight west in a perfectly straight line
till it disappeared in the distance at about 20 degrees elevation
angle. But it was only visible for about 2 seconds, or maybe only
1.5 sec., so fast was it going.

It seemed to be at a considerable height, like 500 or 1000 ft,
and so to be of a size like no insect! It wasn't much like a rod,
but maybe a rod with stubby fins of some sort attached to each
side, and though I'm not sure, the front of it (head) I think was
tapered. Its rigidity was very noticeable; i.e., no flapping
appendages. The linearity of its flight path was the most
impressive thing (relative to what an insect or bird would
exhibit), combined with its speed. And of course no exhaust, no
noise. It was a sort of "misty" white color, with no shaded
underside and no highlights reflecting the sunlight. It
disappeared by a combination of its angular size becomng too
small in the distance, and its contrast with the sky becoming too
weak.

Immediately afterwards I moved my eyeballs around while looking
up at the sky to see if I had any strange "floater" in an eye,
but there were none; but such wouldn't have been the right color
or shape, nor visible with both eyes to give depth perception.

Last night I heard a part of the Art Bell show with its
interviewing of a "rod" investigator. If I hadn't heard that
show, I would have just chalked this up as another UFO sighting
and not thought of 'rods', as I've had a few UFO sightings in the
past 12 years (described in my web site).  In any event, a
sighting that only lasts a second or two isn't anything to get
too steamed up about -- no time to go looking for another witness
or anything.
Easy to dismiss as an anomaly.

Does this fit the "rod" category?

Jim Deardorff
http://www.proaxis.com/~deardorj/index.htm







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                        The Corso Affidavit for CAUS

From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 08:29:29 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 09:46:42 -0400
Subject: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS

>From CAUS. Go to

http://www.caus.org/FOIA/CorsoAffidavit.htm

Links are preceded by asterisks.


Stig


*******


Peter A. Gersten, Esq.
Attorney for Plaintiff
Arizona Bar #016925
Sedona, Arizona 86351


UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
THE DISTRICT OF ARIZONA


CITIZENS AGAINST UFO SECRECY, INC.
7349 Via Paseo Del Sur #515-194
Scottsdale, Arizona 85258
(602) 818-8248
Plaintiff,

v.

DEPARTMENT OF ARMY

Defendant,
)
)
)         CIV98-0538PHXROS
)
)
)          AFFIDAVIT
)
)


I, Col. Philip J. Corso, (Ret.) do hereby swear, under the penalties of
perjury, that the following statements are true:

That at all times hereinafter mentioned, I was a member and officer of
the defendant.

That during my tenure with the defendant I was a member of President
Eisenhower�s National Security Council and former head of the Foreign
Technology Desk at defendant�s Research & Development department.

That on or about July 6, 1947, while stationed at Fort Riley, Kansas, I
personally observed a four-foot non-human creature with bizarre-looking
four-fingered hands, thin legs and feet, and an oversized incandescent
light bulb-shaped head. The eye sockets were oversized and almond
shaped and pointed down to its tiny nose. The creature�s skull was
overgrown to the point where all its facial features were arranged
frontally, occupying only a small circle on the lower part of the head.
There were no eyebrows or any indications of facial hair. The creature
had only a tiny flat slit for a mouth and it was completely closed,
resembling more of a crease or indentation between the nose and the
bottom of the chinless skull than a fully functioning orifice.

That in 1961, I came into possession of what I refer to as the �Roswell
File.� This file contained field reports, medical autopsy reports and
technological debris from the crash an extraterrestrial vehicle in
Roswell, New Mexico in 1947.

That I have personally read the medical autopsy reports which refer to
the autopsy of the previously described creature that I saw in 1947 at
Fort Riley, Kansas.

That said autopsy reports indicated the autopsy was performed at Walter
Reed Hospital, which was under the authority of the defendant at the
time of the autopsy.

That said autopsy report referred to the creature as an
�extraterrestrial biological entity.�


__________________________

Colonel Philip J. Corso (ret.)

Sworn before me
this day of ___ May, 1998.

__________________________


*Image of the actual page with Coro's signature and Notary seal

*Return to CAUS.ORG








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                    Re: One For The Conspiracy Theorists

From: Keith Woodard <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:26:57 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 09:49:57 -0400
Subject: Re: One For The Conspiracy Theorists


> From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: One For The Conspiracy Theorists
> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 01:09:58 PDT

> Dear list,

> Playing Devil's Advocate -  here's one for the conspiracy
> theorists straight fronn CNN's on-line news.

> The coincidence amazes me but is that all it is?

> Three members of the German rocket team that helped
> Americans reach the moon died this past week in
> Alabama. Max Nowak, 89, of Huntsville, Heinrich Paetz,
> 88, of Grant, and Albert Schuler, 83, of Huntsville helped
> develop German V-1 and V-2 rockets during World War
> II and then came to the United States under contract to the
> U.S. Army. Paetz diedThursday at his home, Schuler died
> Friday at his home, and Nowak diedTuesday as a Huntsville
> hospital.

I don't have much truck with conspiracy theories, but it is weird
that Colonel Corso was also involved with Project Paperclip.

Keith






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                         Re: New FUFOR Publications

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 07:02:39 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 10:12:13 -0400
Subject: Re: New FUFOR Publications


>Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 15:30:46 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>Subject: New FUFOR Publications

>At the risk of breaking into the exciting (multi-threaded)
>debate that seems to have everyone's attention (please read the
>previous as sarcasm), I wanted to make sure that several new
>publications available through FUFOR are now available. . . .

<snip>

In my haste to get this out I erred in this last sentence.  It
should have read: "I wanted to make sure that everyone was aware
of several new publications available through FUFOR are now
available."

Steve








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                          Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #257

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 07:41:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 10:14:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #257

Apology to MW #257 (For July 18, 1998)

I want to know who has to _pay_, so I can play my life out true.
I want the info close, and near at hand. I want a truthfulness
hard ringing from all the towers on our world. I _want_ to learn,
perform research, and understand.

My understanding would include appreciation of a rawness in the
news that we don't get too well, at all. Massaged, manipulated,
and pre-digested for our use, it obfuscates the issue, and
performs convenient stalls. Anomaly is ridiculed, and crap is
spewed prime time by the well coifed talking heads that toe a
line. Truth is lost in fractured constructs of the narrowly
conceived; the truth, if seen, is seen a single time!

Have the guts to ring unpleasant, and be damned like Pete Arnett,
who lifted at the edges of our scab. The *machine* will scuttle
in, and pick the bones of righteous men like a cockroach, or a
demon, or a crab.  Me thinks *they* doth protest too much the
story was untrue -- that poison gas was used to murder . .
.folks. It's been made for just that purpose, and been purchased
for its _use_, or gas production's mythic -- and a joke.

Are things alive that fly our skies while Bill is porkin' 'nika
<g>? Two human beings in need, they grope -- get sweaty.  They do
something indiscreet in ways as old as driving need . . . then
_lie_ to pay a freight too harsh and weighty.

And while we spend the money checking Presidential penis, anomaly
fair flirts, or charms, and teases. The money just won't go there
'cause the profits more to bear, though the kingdom _is_ much
nearer -- that's EGREGIOUS. If we knew the _final_ secret we
might find we _had_ salvation in a wealth of _toleration_
unimpaired.  It was always here at hand, that precious kingdom,
understand --and permissiveness its _blessing_, I declare!!!

You'll see them if you look up, and just simply watch your skies.
You'll see them dance and caper right before astonished eyes.
You'll see them float serenely like they haven't wit nor care.
You'll see them if you'd see them; if you've courage; if you'd
dare! You'll see them making liars of the skepti-bunky slugs --
you'll see prevarication from the Phil Klass CSICOP thugs. If
enough of us _would_ see them they would land right on our yards;
we'd invite them in for tea, and we'd have them by for cards!!!
They'd be in our family photos, and they'd stand up at our
weddings, they'd be friends that we're supposed to never have!
The man would have conniptions as we wrote his new prescriptions
for the blisters we'd be raising on his ass <g>.

You can bet our pretty newsmen, and the gals that spread the lies
are embarrassed by their actions that I'm sure they _must_
despise. Those that pull demonic phallus for their ease of *good*
position should evaluate their options for complaint. There's a
time you might be useless 'cause the paradigms have shifted and
all that's left (?) is cluelessness, and pain.

And it doesn't have to be that way <I shake my fist right in your
face> ! It doesn't have to turn out quite like that!! It's never
_had_ to be that way; the kingdom's here at hand! But assaulted
by true criminals -- psychopathic human rats! And not the one's
you'd think might come, from the bottom of the pile, but the one
astride his shoulders who then bleeds him 'till he's _riled_! He
accumulates his capital with pretension and a smile. We've been
lying to our children, so our lips are slick with guile. We teach
convenient structures reproductionist in scope. The kids find
out, you bet, too late -- are let in on the *joke*.

. . .

Behold the yawning vastness of the never ending cosmos! Perceive
there's so much more of it than you. Understand it, as it
happens, that is anything can happen in its length and breadth,
and awesome depth -- it's true!!! A heaven _and_ a hell is there
to take us on its trip through trackless time and unknown thought
and endless space. Dimensions will be traveled like we take a bus
uptown, if we live beyond the limits of our present sad
disgrace.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

How does one get the raw news -- lurk on transponder signals, or
what? When I think of raw news, I think of people like L.M. Howe,
or Chuck Shramek. These are two that seem to discover something
interesting, and pass it on to the rest of us -- for all their
recent vilification and censure. I remain attendant to their
camps; however, because they are, I perceive, motivated by
guilelessness and honesty.

Look -- somebody comes to _ME_ with something interesting, and I
would like to think I would pass it along . . . as THEY have. I'd
let you make up your own mind. If the "something interesting"
turns out to be a hoax -- then it was STILL my effort that got it
the attention it needed to be proven so! IT'S STILL A STEP UP!
That's why I want the news raw; it's a step up from the clutches
of a manipulated culture, an unethical coercion, or being
programmed what to think.  Chuck and Linda would do well by me to
be just keeping on the way they're keeping on! Jeff Rinse springs
to mind -- Laura Lee et. al.; continue to show a courage the
mainstreamers don't have the nads for, and keep that twitchy info
coming! Keep it RAW! After all the additives, filler, and
preservatives the mainstream provides, there is little
nourishment, and certainly a lessor amount of truth LEFT!

Restore John Ford!

P.S. -- I heard Drudge (of Drudge report *fame*) describe himself
as "No Peter Arnett"! Well, let me quickly agree with Mr. Drudge;
he _is_ no Peter Arnett.  He has none of the rich character,
personal integrity, or *raw* courage that Arnett displays with
unflinching, and casual vigorousness.
Certainly more than a garden tool Drudge, a smirking vane for the
truly self absorbed, the conveniently and covetously placed --
the _plainly_ sociopathic fat cat rightist. . .  <g>!


--
Explore the Alien View? <Updated 16 July>

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake.








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                            Re: 'Sturrock Panel'

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 06:49:35 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 10:10:49 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Sturrock Panel'


>From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
>Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 18:49:30 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Sturrock Panel'

>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Sturrock Panel'
>>Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 19:04:44 -0400

>>>From: Francis Ridge <slk@EVANSVILLE.NET>
>>>Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 07:54:45 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: 'Sturrock Panel'
>>>To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

><snip>

>>>1) 106,000 sightings on computer (UFOCAT)
>>>2) 3,000-plus sightings from aircraft (Dr. Richard Haines)
>>>3) 489 radar cases, many radar/visual (Dominique Weinstein)
>>>4) 363 radar cases, 76 as R/V!!! (US Air Force records)
>>>5) 5600 trace cases, 4104 with UFO sightings!!!! (CUFOS)
>>>6) 185 E-M cases involving aircraft (Haines)
>>>7) Over 500 cases E-M effects with UFOs (CUFOS)
>>>8) Many hundreds of just GOOD close encounters
>>>9) And 701 Blue Book unknowns of various types

>>Indeed.  However, I would add that if any hard evidence in
>>support of the subjects mentioned above were to surface, I would
>>certainly expect that to be reviewed by the scientific community
>>as well.

>The above mentioned are not "subjects", they are documented cases,
>and they look pretty "surfaced" to me. Why don't you stroll over to the
>water's edge and have a look for yourself?

>Greg


I was referencing the original Easton list, and not the response
from Fran. Easton's list was comprised of topics, or subjects,
and not based on specific cases.  Sorry that I didn't make it
more clear.  I get fairly close to the "water's edge" each month
at that FUFOR Executive Committee Meetings (as an advisor, rather
than officer).  But I'm still learning.

Steve







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   Jul > Jul 18

                   Ohio Crop Circle Discovered: July, 1998

From: Kenny Young <task@fuse.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 06:17:08 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 10:08:16 -0400
Subject: Ohio Crop Circle Discovered: July, 1998

Paulding County Progress (Paulding, Ohio)
Wednesday, July 15, 1998, [Weekly publication]

Crop circle is discovered in county

By DENISE GEBERS Correspondent

 BROUGHTON - Wasn't it just a couple years ago, Fourth of July
weekend, that the infamous Paulding County Crop Circle hit the
scene and put our little corner of the world on the map? Seems
like once isn't enough, because there is another one!

This time, the circle was not found from the air, but by a
Grover Hill farmer harvesting wheat July 6. Brian Ruble was
combining an 18-acre field in Latty Township when he first
glimpsed the phenomena.

He said, "I saw it from a distance and didn't know what it was.
When I got closer, I could see it was a crop circle. My
8-year-old daughter has been looking for a crop circle since she
and her mom went to see the one at Arend's. I never thought I'd
find one."

He combined around it. Later he told his father and his wife,
who called landowner Georgia Price.

"I don't know what to make of it," said Price. "I don't believe
in outer space stuff. I don't know why anyone would go to this
trouble."

She said her family has farmed the land 45 years and it has
never before produced such a crop.

A case of vandalism?

Sheriff Dave Harrow said his office received a report of crop
vandalism at 6:14 p.m. July 6.

He denied the existence of a crop circle in the county, although
he said the vandalism was circular in shape. He said his office
has no suspects and because the landowner did not want to press
charges, the case is closed.

Ruble said the sheriff came out July 6, compared the formation
with those in a book, declared it a hoax, and recommended they
to plow the compression under.

In spite of this, one witness said nearly 150 people were on the
scene later that evening. This circle has not been roped off and
had people inside it before experts arrived on the scene.

Samples taken for study

But, the circle was still intact over the weekend when it was
visited July 12 by Roger Sugden and Jeffrey Wilson. Both
researchers made trips to Paulding County when the first crop
circle was reported.

Sugden said he and Wilson each documented the circle and took
samples for study. Sugden took measurements, drew a field
diagram and checked electromagnetic readings (which were higher
inside the formation), before taking wheat and soil samples from
inside and outside the circle.

Samples taken by Sugden were sent to the Center for UFO Studies
(CUFOS) in Chicago at the request of John Timmerman from its
Lima office; BLT Research in Grass Lake, Mich., at the request
of biophysicist Dr. William C. Levengood; and the Mutual UFO
Network (MUFON), a Texas-based research group for which Sugden
is a field investigator. He also took aerial and ground-level
photographs.

Wilson is an independent crop circle researcher from Eastern
Michigan University (EMU) in Ypsilanti, Mich., where he teaches
astronomy.

Similarities seen

There are many similarities between this circle and that found
two years ago in Jackson Township. Both occurred in a field of
bearded wheat, are about the same size, (this one is 92 feet in
diameter while the first was 93), each has an offset center, and
both were centered between ditches. They're only three miles
apart (by air, five by roadway). This one spins down in the
opposite direction, however.

Sugden said nodes on the plants were enlarged and stretched,
which is a good indication of an authentic formation.

He also noted a single thick stemmed dark weed, he thinks
perhaps dock, inside the circle. "It is the only thing left
standing. It's about two and a half to three feet tall. If this
was hoaxed, they wouldn't have seen the weed and it wouldn't be
standing," said Sugden.

The formation lies at the back of the field with two north-south
ditches running through it and a lot of clover growing in it.

Because of this growth, Sugden feels the circle was made in late
June or very early July. He also said the landowner told him the
house just south of the field had been struck by lightning June
27. He believes there could be a connection between the two.

Awaiting test results

Sugden doesn't believe this formation is a hoax. Wilson didn't
have an initial comment. Both are awaiting testing results for
confirmation. Sugden, who also works with UFO sightings, said
there were no UFO indicators at the site.

Two neighbors in the quiet area two, miles south of Ohio 637 on
Road 131 said they neither saw nor heard anything unusual that
weekend.

The first crop circle was not hoaxed, but was caused by a type
of natural atmospheric disturbance, said Dr. Levengood. In May
1997, he released a report on his findings from crop circle
samples, taken from the Arend farm site the previous year.

The report said "the results clearly indicate that this event
was not, in fact, man-made. Instead, the findings support Dr.
Levengood's theory that very complex, turbulent,
thermodynamically unstable atmospheric energy systems are the
causative agents ... it is clear that both heat and
electromagnetic components were present, of the type that would
be expected in association with a highly-charged plasma vortex."

END OF ARTICLE - PHOTOS NOT INCLUDED ___________

Comment:

This article is courtesy of Mr. Jerry Hamm, researcher from
Napoleon, Ohio, regarding a recent Crop Circle supposedly
located in Paulding, Ohio. One may recall the crop circle found
in this vicinity in July of 1996 which made national headlines,
and happening during a spate of UFO sightings through the
Ohio/Indiana areas timed conveniently with the hype surrounding
the opening of the Independence Day movie.


--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/task/






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   Jul > Jul 18

                               Skeptic Spooks

From: Max Burns <AlienHype1@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 09:17:19 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 10:19:22 -0400
Subject: Skeptic Spooks


I pulled this off one of the news groups, thought you all might
like a read:

<snip>

Subject: The Explanation Of Skeptics (A Disturbing Trend -
         Skeptic/Spooks Interfering With Ufology Newsgroups)
From: Peter Kazlouski <PeteKaz@erols.com>
Date: 7/17/98 12:35 AM GMT
Message-id: <35AE9C52.F17A47C8@erols.com>

THE EXPLANATION OF SKEPTICS (A DISTURBING TREND - SKEPTIC/
SPOOKS INTERFERING WITH UFOLOGY NEWSGROUPS)

Tony Veca wrote:

I would like to thank Huber, Schwartz and Nelson for proving
something to me. You are right the problem isn't that you can't
prove a negative.  But you definitely have a blind spot but not
the one I always thought it was.  That blind spot is called
preconceived notions'. Your unwillingness to consider any
evidence is proof enough that you don't really want to know the
truth. Because if you knew the truth, you would have to change
your preconceived notions.

Thomas Kuhn, in his book 'The Structure of Scientific
Revolutions' he describes the reactions of scientists to new
discoveries and hard it is for them to make changes in their
basic beliefs.

Kuhn noticed that scientists would go to any lengths to deny the
validity of new theories or the need to change their minds.  He
describes the symptoms associated with fundamental change:

     1. Persistent denial
     2. Refusal to consider evidence
     3. Reluctance to criticize old ideas
     4. Slander of new-thinking colleagues
     5. Anger at having to give up cherished dogmas

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Notice how EXACTLY this fits the skeptic/spooks.

And the problem is that the skeptic/spooks are DESPERATELY TRYING
TO PROVE THE NEGATIVE, that is, that ETs don't exist and all the
evidence that they do exist doesn't exist.  In any moderated
forum they would be expelled immediately.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -






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   Jul > Jul 18

                       UPDATE on COL. CORSO'S PASSING

From: CNINews1@aol.com
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 14:37:11 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 17:22:48 -0400
Subject: UPDATE on COL. CORSO'S PASSING


Although we issued a bulletin yesterday on the death of Colonel
Philip Corso, I am sending you this update to correct some minor
inaccuracies in our first bulletin and to fill in details on this
important event.

Best regards,
Michael Lindemann
Editor, CNI News

BULLETIN -- COL. PHILIP J. CORSO DIES -- UPDATE

Col. Philip J. Corso (U.S. Army, ret.) died of a heart attack at approximately 1
1:15 pm EDT on Thursday, July 16, 1998. He was 83.

Corso, who was widely known for his controversial 1997 book, "The
Day After Roswell," suffered a massive heart attack in early June
of this year but made a remarkable recovery.

"He really wanted to stay," Corso's son, Philip Jr., told CNI
News in a phone call on Friday afternoon. "The last three weeks
[since the first attack] have been very productive. I knew he had
more to say, and he told me a great deal" about the Roswell UFO
incident, Philip Jr. said.

Col. Corso was at home on Tuesday, July 15 and was said to be
feeling fine when he apparently suffered a second heart attack at
about 9:00 a.m. He was taken to a hospital in nearby Palm Beach,
Florida for treatment, but his condition deterioriated. Doctors
decided to transfer him on Thursday evening to Jupiter Medical
Center, where he had been treated for his earlier attack.
Col. Corso reportedly died at about the time he reached the
Jupiter facility.

Unpublished manuscripts and other UFO-related information left by
Col. Corso will be protected and made available in due course to
researchers and the public, Philip Jr. said. "This is what my
father lived for," he added.

Colonel Corso was a highly decorated soldier, recipient of 30
medals and commendations during his long military career.
According to Philip Jr., the Colonel was most proud to have
received the Knight Officer Crown of Italy for his exceptional
service in Italy during and after World War II. Philip Jr.
told CNI News that Col. Corso is the only American soldier to
have received this honor from Italy.

Col. Corso will be buried in a military cemetary near Orlando,
Florida. He is survived by two children, four grandchildren and
one great grandchild.

Condolences may be sent to the family of Philip Corso, Jr., care
of the Roswell UFO Museum. Send attn: Philip Corso Jr., PO Box
2221, Roswell, NM 88202; fax (505) 625-1907; email care of
deon@roswell.net.

In lieu of flowers, Philip Jr. told CNI News that a fund will be
established to create a memorial plaque in Col. Corso's name. The
memorial will be placed at "the true crash site" of the 1947
Roswell UFO crash, according to Philip Jr. Donations in any
amount for creation of the memorial can be sent to: Col.
Philip Corso Memorial, c/o Roswell UFO Museum, PO Box 2221,
Roswell, NM 88202.

Further information will be posted to the CNI News web site as it
becomes available.






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   Jul > Jul 19

                      Re: Lazar Critique By A Physicist

From: "Mark LeCuyer" <randydan@wavetech.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 01:31:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 15:02:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Lazar Critique By A Physicist


> From: Keith Woodard <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
> To: "UFO Updates" <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Lazar critique by a physicist
> Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 14:58:19 -0700
>

> On sci.skeptic today, Dr. David Morgan divulged the location of
> his critique of some of Bob Lazar's statements.  The URL is:

> http://www.physics.wm.edu/~morgan/files/critique.html

> Dr. Morgan is a particle physicist and the The College of William
> & Mary in Williamsburg, Virginia.


Hello Everyone:)

QUOTE: "These statements by Lazar are "total nonsense". There is only
ONE accepted theory of gravity: General Relativity. In GR, gravity is
described as a distortion of spacetime, not as a particle or a wave!
(There are phenomena known as "gravitational waves" which exist in
GR, but this does not seem to be what Lazar is talking about."
UNQUOTE

I believe that scientists who are 'out of the loop' only know and
understand what their limited research has proven to be as fact or as
theory. I say limited because they haven't had the priveledge of
studying extraterrestrial technology. This would open their eyes to a
completely different paradigm. What they understand as the accepted
physical laws of the universe may very well be only partially
correct. And they're only in the very beginning stages of trying to
understand dimensional physics.

It's quite evident that advanced alien civilizations have found most
if not all of the answers to the physical and dimensional laws of the
universe. One example is their ability to bend space and time,
allowing them to traverse hundreds, maybe thousands, or possibly even
millions of light years in a very short amount of time.

Dr. David Morgan is right when he says  QUOTE: "All that I can hope
to demonstrate here is that his scenario would require a COMPLETE
overhaul of our theories of gravity and particle physics in order to
work. Not just some minor changes...I'm talking from the ground up!
Mr. Lazar makes no mention of this fact, and he proposes no
alternative theories. But, if Lazar's scenario is true, then we will
NEED some new theories, because we are wrong about a great many
things. We don't understand gravity. We don't understand nuclear
interactions. We don't understand spacetime. We don't understand
stellar evolution." UNQUOTE

What exciting and adventurous times we have to look forward to.

Read his article at:
http://www.physics.wm.edu/~morgan/files/critique.html





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   Jul > Jul 19

                    Re: One For The Conspiracy Theorists

From: Rob Meyer <robmeyer@sedona.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 09:34:16 -0700 (MST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 15:08:06 -0400
Subject: Re: One For The Conspiracy Theorists

>From: Keith Woodard <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: One For The Conspiracy Theorists
>Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:26:57 -0700


>> From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
>> To: updates@globalserve.net
>> Subject: One For The Conspiracy Theorists
>> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 01:09:58 PDT

>> Dear list,

>> Playing Devil's Advocate -  here's one for the conspiracy
>> theorists straight fronn CNN's on-line news.

>> The coincidence amazes me but is that all it is?

>> Three members of the German rocket team that helped
>> Americans reach the moon died this past week in
>> Alabama. Max Nowak, 89, of Huntsville, Heinrich Paetz,
>> 88, of Grant, and Albert Schuler, 83, of Huntsville helped
>> develop German V-1 and V-2 rockets during World War
>> II and then came to the United States under contract to the
>> U.S. Army. Paetz diedThursday at his home, Schuler died
>> Friday at his home, and Nowak diedTuesday as a Huntsville
>> hospital.

Did all of these men die on or about the same day and did Corso
and of the same heart conditions






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                      Re: Triangular UFOs over Belgium

From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 11:53:17 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 15:06:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Triangular UFOs over Belgium


>Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 11:05:29 -0700
>From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" <skytracker@geocities.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Triangular UFOs over Belgium

>I am new to this list, so if someone has already speculated
>on this, forgive me.

>I was reading about the triangular UFO's sighted over Belgium
>between 1989 and 1991. One particular report mentions a large,
>triangular shaped UFO hovering at a total stop, and then
>'distorting' as if it were viewed under wave filled water, and
>the three white lights that were on each corner of the triangle
>converging into a single small light. The structure of the craft
>vansihed, leaving only the converged light. This light then shot
>off toward the sky at very high velocity.

>At around the same general time, a Belgian F-16 was dispatched
>to investigate one of these craft. The radar indicated that the
>object being pursued had a speed of about 770 knots, slowed to
>0 knots, and then accelerated to 990 knots in about one second.
>Such acceleration is not possible with current aircraft
>technology.


[...]

Kyle,

The 1989 Belgium UFO flap was debated on the List last year.  The
debate turned out to be the usual: skeptics on one side, truth seekers
on the other.

As usual, the skeptics kept throwing in the half-truths and the wrong
facts.  As usual, the good guys kept coming at them to tell the untold
stories.  One skeptic tried to get an edge by showing he could read
French (Le Duc de Mendoza, je crois), but he was surprised at how many
people could do more then that: they could understand French.

As usual, the skeptics, when showed the evidence, picked up their
marbles and quietly went into silent mode.  Since a skeptic's attitude
is not based upon the facts but upon belief, there was no loss for
them here.

Serge







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   Jul > Jul 19

                                 Re: The Rod

From: Greg St.Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 17:00:10 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 15:44:37 -0400
Subject: Re: The Rod


>Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:17:27 -0700 (PDT)
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>Subject: The Rod >>

Dear Jim,

I am by no means a "rod expert", but I've tried the video
technique you're referring too, and have some results and
thoughts of my own.

In Jan. '97, I bought a video camera for the express purpose of
trying to catch some of these things on tape, if they were
actually there. My first attempt was only 25 seconds long,
because I had to leave, and was sans tripod. Later I reviewed
the tape,and though it was shaky I did see a few seemingly
distant streaks, and couldn't wait to try it again. Next time, I
filmed (on a tripod) from an open garage door for an hour, and
got some really interesting stuff. I froze my posterior while
doing so, because it was ten degrees above zero.Then I realized
that the temperature was working to my advantage, since most
insects become dormant (some die) at that temp, and that would
seem to preclude any taped objects being bugs. Also, I chose a
partially cloud filled sky, to show perspective, especially if
one of these things flew behind one (several did). I used
partial zoom with focus to infinity. That would also seem to
rule out any dust near the camera lens being filmed, since they
could not be in focus. The obects I taped are pretty well
defined, to the extent my cameras resolution allowed.

I still have mixed feelings about this, because not all the
things have been done that are necessary to eliminate other
possibilities. I'd like to try setting up TWO cameras at some
distance apart, aimed at the same portion of sky. If a "rod"
shows up on one but not the other, the object's distance would
fall somewhere before where the two camera angles intercept,
i.e. close to the camera, not distant in the sky, and so
probably dust or some airborne critter. If anyone has tried
this, I'd like to know the results....I'm not likely to get
another camera soon. I have seen bugs I've caught on tape that
look a lot like rods...appendages and all, hence the mixed
feelings. A single frame of tape captures several wingbeats, and
elongates the body of the insect. And I know they were insects
because I watched them fly by.

Just some thoughts....any more out there?

Greg






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                           MAGONIA ETH BULLETIN #5

From: Mark Pilkington <m.pilkington@virgin.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 21:23:23 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 15:40:03 -0400
Subject: MAGONIA ETH BULLETIN #5

 ------ MAGONIA ETH BULLETIN No. 5, July 1998

Editor: JOHN HARNEY

EDITORIAL

Several people have told me that they enjoy reading this
publication, especially those among the privileged few who
receive printed copies by snail mail. They have also told me
that they are thinking about writing articles for it. The sooner
they send me their excellent and eagerly awaited writings the
better, so that we can maintain our position at the cutting edge
of armchair ufology.


WHY A CLOSE ENCOUNTER CAN BE QUITE A HEADACHE

Signs and symptoms

In some close-encounter cases witnesses report bizarre
experiences, which are sometimes followed by signs and symptoms,
such as violent headaches, nausea and vomiting, and diarrhoea.
In most cases, though, symptoms following the experience appear
to be minimal or completely absent. Where unpleasant symptoms do
appear, many ufologists tend to attribute them to the effects of
getting too close to the UFO and being subject to some
mysterious, harmful radiation. It does not occur to them that
there could be more mundane explanations for at least some of
those close encounters which are not obvious hoaxes.

Classical migraine

Consider the following incident which is reported to have taken
place in Brazil in 1965. A 15-year-old boy was lagging behind a
party of youths who were going to a cinema. As he passed across
a piece of open ground he heard a strange hum and saw two cones
of white light in the sky and then saw two roundish craft land
not far from him. Entities emerged, inspected one of the craft,
then re-entered and the craft took off at a fantastic speed,
disappearing in a few seconds. The boy joined his companions in
the cinema, but soon developed a violent headache, which lasted
for five days. (1)

Here we have a very strange experience, followed by a prolonged
headache. We are not told if there were any other symptoms but
we are informed that a doctor eventually treated the boy for a
disturbed heart . However, this report appears to be a
description of what is known as a classical migraine. Most
people are aware that migraine usually consists of a violent
headache accompanied by nausea - a sick headache . However, in a
classical migraine these symptoms are preceded by what is called
an aura, which usually consists of disturbances of vision, but
can in some cases be of a highly complex nature.

Examples

The information about migraine for this paper is taken from the
book Migraine by Dr Oliver Sacks. (2) It is interesting to
compare some of his case histories with other accounts which
have been interpreted as encounters with UFOs. For example,
compare the following reports. The first is taken from an
account by one of Dr Sacks's patients. (3) The second and third
are taken from the UFO literature. (4)

It was a late summer afternoon, and I was winding along a
country road on my motorbike. An extraordinary sense of
stillness came upon me . . . I felt that this summer afternoon
had always existed and that I was arrested in an endless moment.
When I got off the bike, a few minutes later, I had an
extraordinarily powerful tingling in my hands, nose, lips and
tongue. It seemed to be a continuation of the vibration of the
motorbike . . . the vibrating sensation was growing stronger
every moment . . . My sense of vision was then affected . . .
The hum of crickets was all around me, and when I closed my
eyes, this was immediately translated into a hum of colour . . .
After about 20 minutes . . . the visual world resumed its normal
appearance . . . I had a come-down feeling and the beginnings of
a headache.

Clay, Alabama - Summer 1962, 1800


Dean Self was walking home along the Clay-Palmerdale road after
visiting a friend, when he heard a sound like a wind in a pine
tree , then an unnatural silence. Looking up he was terrified to
see an object 30 m above him. It was 12 m long, with a cabin
about 2 m high at the front. It had a smooth white surface with
multicoloured lights on the underside, which pulsated in rhythm
with a muted

throbbing sound which seemed to affect his whole body. The
object suddenly vanished, the wind was heard again, then the
natural sounds returned.

Sandling, near Saltwood, Kent, England - August 1962, 2330

Bruce Leggatt (17) had just ridden past Sandling station on his
scooter on this very warm night, when the air turned cold. He
became afraid and accelerated. Looking over his shoulder, he
glimpsed a yellow oval object, rough in outline, which extended
over the width of the road (c. 6 m). He became more afraid,
feeling that he was being watched. This feeling persisted for
some time after he turned on to a main road.

It must be realised that these descriptions are not necessarily
accurate accounts of what was experienced at the time, because
of the difficulty of recalling and describing them clearly. Dr
Sacks writes of . . . free-wheeling states of hallucinosis,
illusion, or dreaming" which may be experienced during intense
migraine auras, and be manifest as confused or confabulatory
states of which the patient retains imperfect recollection.
These states are composed of coherent, dramatically-organised
series of images, and are usually compared by patients to
intense, involuntary daydreams or daymares. (5) Dr Sacks also
emphasises the exceedingly strange nature of many aura phenomena
and he notes that . . . the sense of strangeness is frequently
accompanied by a sense of profoundly-disturbed time perception .
(6)

Scotomata

A type of visual hallucination commonly associated with migraine
auras is the scotoma, which develops as it appears to move
across the field of vision. The advancing margin of the scotoma
often displays the gross zig-zag appearance which justifies the
term fortification spectrum . . . (7) A report from the UFO
literature, of a case investigated by BUFORA, which seems to
describe migraine scotomata, concerns a man who recalled having
seen a ball with spikes coming out over Lake Lucerne while on a
school trip about 30 years ago. His recent sighting occurred one
evening when he saw through his kitchen window an object on a
patch of soil in the garden which was wine red in colour and
about the size of a drinks tray . It remained on the ground for
a few minutes, then suddenly . . . it took off, like a coin
being flipped, and spun up into the air, revealing its underside
with a series of reinforcements" on the rim. It then seemed to
head for the window and gave out a blue flash. (8)

The report of this sighting is accompanied by a small sketch
showing an oval object surrounded by zigzags. It bears a
remarkable resemblance to a reproduction of a painting described
as a classical zigzag fortification pattern in Sacks's book.

Isolated auras

In this case the witness reported that he suffered no ill
effects, which means that, if it was a migraine aura, it was not
followed by the usual headache, or other symptoms and signs.
This is an important point. Sacks points out that it has been
estimated that the incidence of classical migraine is about one
per cent of the general population, but this gives no indication
of the incidence of isolated auras, which are probably much more
common. Obviously, if the aura is not followed by any unpleasant
symptoms it is unlikely to be diagnosed as migraine or anything
else. Most people do not like to consult their doctors when they
have no

symptoms. Sacks mentions discussing the subject with a
colleague, who immediately recognised his diagram of a
scintillating scotoma and said that he had often seen this
himself as a young man, but that it never occurred to him that
there was anything unusual about them; he presumed that
everybody saw such things. (9)

More than one witness

Many ufologists will no doubt consider it odd that that I should
propose migraine as an explanation for close-encounter UFO
reports in view of the fact that a high proportion of them
involve two or more witnesses. However, the presence of other
persons does not necessarily rule out migraine as a factor
involved in generating the reports. Few of the write-ups of
multi-witness cases give any detailed, separate

accounts by all of the witnesses. Sometimes other alleged
witnesses are strangely reluctant to talk to investigators. In
other cases one suspects that the witnesses have concocted a
dramatic story from a minor incident by a process, perhaps
unconscious, of confabulation, aided by faulty and confused
memories. Also, the strange behaviour of the person experiencing
a migraine aura could evoke hysterical reactions from other
people present. Someone with a forceful personality might
persuade others that an unusual or unexpected light is really a
flying saucer. (This effect will be familiar to many who have
indulged in UFO skywatches.) There are many such possibilities.

Conclusions

I am not suggesting that all, or most, close-encounter reports
have anything to do with migraine. I have no time for catch-all
explanations which can be force-fitted to any case that comes to
hand. There are many rational explanations for UFO reports and I
think that this one should be added to the list. I merely offer
this paper as a basis for discussion and investigation. All I am
saying is that there appears to be much in common between
descriptions of migraine auras and many reports of experiences
which have been interpreted as close encounters with UFOs.

I suggest that those who wish to argue about this subject should
read Dr Sacks's book first, if possible. Comments and
information are welcome, particularly from medically qualified
readers.

References

1. Creighton, Gordon. The Humanoids" in Latin America , Flying
Saucer Review: The Humanoids, October/November 1966, 41

2. Sacks, Oliver. Migraine, Picador, London, 1995

3. Ibid., 86

4. Rogerson, Peter. INTCAT, cases 1028 and 1052, Magonia, 6,
1981

5. Sacks, op. cit., 79

6. Ibid., 71

7. Ibid., 59

8. Case 9303,Northern UFO News, April 1993, 14

9. Sacks, op. cit., 88


 IS THE ETH FALSIFIABLE? Martin S. Kottmeyer

There have been individuals frustrated by the behaviour of
ufologists who level the charge that their beliefs are
unfalsifiable. Advocates say this or that case is unexplainable
or this or that pattern cannot be explained by conventional
means. Solve the case, show the pattern is explicable, do they
accept this negates their position? They will probably just come
up with a new case or pattern. This is annoying behaviour, but
does it really constitute evidence of unfalsifiability? We are
dealing with the proposition that intelligent beings are
surreptitiously flying around the world and are actively trying
to prevent their detection. Maybe the evidence is ambiguous, but
aren't we allowed the faith that someday someone will build the
better mousetrap that will capture the proof that will silence
the cynics?

Efforts to find them in photographic sky surveys have met with
no success. Efforts to videotape aliens capturing repeat
abductees don't seem to be working. One

researcher has suggested that maybe we can put radar-tracking
devices on abductees and capture their transport to hovering
craft. Maybe someday spy satellites can be used to monitor
potential abduction sites and capture images of their craft.
Okay, what if these are implemented and also fail? Will the
advocates accept defeat or fall back on selective visibility and
other magical supertechnology? Is there any conceivable test
that will prove the ETH wrong?

If the ambition is for an absolute
all-doubts-and-all-potential-excuses-removed surefire alien
mousetrap, I suspect such a thing is indeed inconceivable and
the ETH potentially unfalsifiable. Let's suggest however that a
more modest conception of falsification can be said to exist.
Call it a more pragmatic and operational, a
what-have-you-done-for-me-lately? approach to falsification. Has
the ETH provided us with anything useful or interesting in the
way of prediction?

The answer to this is surely no. Nobody has yet come up with a
working saucer drive mechanism from a consideration of the
testimony of witnesses despite several

attempts. (1) ETH proponents have offered theories that they
hoped would predict when the next flap would take place. Early
proponents talked about UFOs monitoring atomic tests and the Air
Force even set up a reporting net at a test site to test that
possibility. Nothing was seen at the test site. Predictions that
saucer reports would increase in response to future scheduled
tests were total failures. Some offered predictions that saucer
sightings increased when Mars got close to Earth. The bolder
predictions failed and the weaker ones got results equivalent to
random chance. Still weaker interpretations involving flaps as a
way to desensitise humans to their fearful presence are not
consistent with well-known findings in human psychology. Recent
flap scholars are silent about these failures and seem to insist
flaps are not psychosocial in nature, yet they have proposed
nothing to suggest the ETH can explain the timing of flaps.
Jerome Clark has recommended Bullard to me as my superior in
these matters, so, Challenge Time! How about it, Eddie, can you
give us a useful ETH theory of flaps? (2)

Proponents have repeatedly proposed that the phenomenon was
escalating in a pattern that suggested we would soon either be
invaded, there would soon be a mass landing, or there would soon
be no doubt of their existence. (3, 4) All have failed. There
have been many suggestions that flying saucers are, in one sense
or another, omens for potential catastrophes. Each ufologist
seems to offer a new variant: supernova (Heard), magnetic
fission of the planet (Scully), Earth knocked out of orbit
(Keyhoe), mass A-bomb attack (Keyhoe), cosmoplastic Earth nova
caused by L-bombs (Wilkins), extermination due to inferior
ethics (Michel), cosmic storm (Jessup), catastrophic changes in
the Earth's surface (Lorenzens), war of the worlds (Steiger and
Whritenour), a disaster beyond imagination (Fawcett), the
violence of the final generation (Keel), climactic confrontation
between Good and Evil involving the inner earth (Trench),
collapse of civilisation (Clark and Coleman, Rogerson), Binder
(rampaging natural forces), nuclear Armageddon with psychic time
ripples (Randles), black hole collision generating a universal
dissolution to which not even the gods are immune (Andrews),
sterility (Fowler), environmental collapse and death of living
Earth (Mack), catastrophe, hybrid integration and takeover, and
control by big-bug aliens (Jacobs). (5, 6) All have failed to
date, thank goodness.

As early as the 1947 Wave, there was already talk that the
government would soon reveal what the saucers were. Louis E.
Starr, commander-in-chief of the Veterans

of Foreign Wars, revealed on 5 July of that year that he was
expecting a telegram concerning the fleets of flying saucers and
it would help explain the discs . (7) Keyhoe, in his first book,
thought he saw a pattern in Air Force statements that suggested
to him the government had an intricate program to prepare
America - and the world - for the secret of the disks . In his
view, The official explanation may be imminent . (8) This has
been a continuing refrain among ufologists (FSR, 1957; Lorenzen,
1974; the Blums, 1974; Walter Andrus, 1983). (9) (Psychics,
contactees, and numerous minor figures have also predicted this,
(10, 11) but these should probably be considered off the ledger
in assessing the value of the ETH in serious ufology.) A very
significant possibility for why these predictions fail is that
the ETH is false and the government has no more to reveal than
it already has.

The upshot is that the ETH has generated dozens of predictions
which time has tested and found invalid. It has been falsified
consistently where it counts - how will it prove its importance
to mankind. The landing never comes. The invasion is postponed.
The flaps don't conform to schedule. The government stays mum.
The revolutionary saucer drive is never built. The world doesn't
end. This may not be falsification in an absolute sense, but it
is surely falsification in the ways that matter

most.

References

1. Vallee, Jacques. Revelations, Ballantine, 1991, 283-284

2. Kottmeyer. UFO Flaps - An Analysis , The Anomalist, 3, Winter 1995-96,
64-89

3. Kottmeyer. What's Up, Doc? , Magonia, 44, 45, 46

4. Clark, Jerome. The Last Decade , International UFO Reporter, 15, 2,
March/April 1990, 3, 20, 23-24

5. Kottmeyer. Dying Worlds, Dying Selves , UFO Brigantia, 47, January 1991,
24-32

6. Andrews, George. Extraterrestrial Friends and Foes, Illuminet, 1993, 240.
Fowler, Raymond. The Watchers, Bantam, 1990, 357. Emory, C. Eugene.
Harvard Launches John Mack Attack , Skeptical Inquirer, 19, 5, 3-4. Jacobs,
David. The Threat, Simon & Schuster, 1998, chapter 12

7. Bloecher, Ted. Report on the Wave of 1947, author, 1967, I-9

8. Keyhoe, Donald. The Flying Saucers are Real, Fawcett, 1950, 6, 14

9. Klass, Philip J. The Cloudy Crystal Ball , Skeptics UFO Newsletter, 14,
March
1992, 8

10. Sheaffer, Robert. UFO Sightings - The Evidence, Prometheus, 1998, chapter
11

11. Cooper, Vicki. 1992 Predictions , UFO Magazine, 7, 1, 24-29


MAGONIA ETH Bulletin. All correspondence, articles, etc. should be
addressed to
the Editor: John Harney, 27 Enid Wood House, High Street, Bracknell, Berkshire
RG12 1LN UK

ETH Bulletin index




Mark Pilkington
------------------------------------------------
Magonia online

http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 19

                                 Re: The Rod

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 17:08:11 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 15:46:10 -0400
Subject: Re: The Rod


> Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:17:27 -0700 (PDT)
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
> Subject: The Rod

> Is there an expert on "rods" on this list?

<snip>

You can compare your sighting with rod photographs on:

http://www.roswellrods.com/

Joe and his wife are the best experts on the phenomenon and
respond to any email sent from the web site.

Also Jim Peters knows a bit about rods.  You can reach him at:

James_Peters@compuserve.com

I must admit that I was quite skeptical about these high speed
thingies; but, the information on the web page has forced me to
keep an open mind about it.

Terry

"There is more in Heaven and Earth than ever dreamed in your
philosophy..."




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         Archive programming by Glenn Campbell at AliensOnEarth.com

   lippings and the old "American legion"-article about this affair. Now
   has a friend made some research in the "Bundesarchiv, Koblenz" about
   this matter - but she has found only only two notices in the files of
   the "Reichsforschungsamt, Waffen- und Munitionsentwicklung". But I must
   say there are not reports from own sources by this agency but only
   translated reports from a) a swedish newspaper (AFTONBLATED, December
   1944) and b) a transcript (in the volume of 6 lines!) from the
   "Interradio Sonderdienst" (also December 1944). This bring up nothing!
   I=B4m now 25 years active here in Germany on the UFO-field as
   researcher and case-investigator but never found a man which has
   reported me a foo fighter-sighting - on the other side few people come
   up which has phantastic storys about their works on the socalled
   Nazi-saucer (but these men were all crackpots). Werner
   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
   D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
   Subject: Re: Foo-Fighters: The German view Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998
   14:40:10 -0600 From: "wendy.connors" <wendy.connors@MCI2000.COM> To:
   PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Hi Werner, I also like the Foo Fighter
   aspects of ufology. There are very interesting elements about it all.
   What I find so difficult to deal with is that when they were reported
   they were either ignored or written off as something else. I really
   don't know, but think this may be possible. As a researcher I find it
   very hard to find good reports on foo fighters since many of the people
   who observed them from various aircraft during the war are difficult to
   locate or are dead. Even the reports available are very misleading at
   times. It would very interesting to actually know what the German
   airmen saw and how they reported such objects. Did they believe that
   the American or English forces were using advanced technology?
   Whichever it may be, or even something else, the foo fighter mystery is
   very interesting! Wendy Connors
   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
   D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Subject: Re:
   Foo-Fighters: The German view Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 10:56:55 -0400
   From: Werner Walter <113236.1604@COMPUSERVE.COM> To:
   PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Hi Wendy, sure the foo fighter-phenomena
   is interessting like many others aspects in the UFO field, but I must
   express my concern that I can=B4t find clean sources or direct-witness
   on these things here in Germany. It=B4s seems that's all mythology.
   Werner
   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
   D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Subject: Re:
   Foo-Fighters: The German view Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 09:24:00 -0600
   From: "wendy.connors" <wendy.connors@MCI2000.COM> To:
   PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Hi Werner, I was thinking about the foo
   fighter phenomenon last night and thought that the technical library at
   Wright-Patterson AFB may have something regarding the German view of
   such phenomenon in the original documents brought back under Operation
   LUSTY and Project PaperCLIP. Col. McCoy and Col. Deyarmond worked in
   getting these documents translated and organized. Do you think there
   might be a possibility of better sources being the original documents
   in German rather than the translated versions? I am thinking here on
   the lines of language idiosyncracies that are difficult to translate
   from the original language. [....] Wendy
   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
   D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Subject:
   Re: Foo-Fighters: The German view Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 10:57:14 -0700
   From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
   Greeting List The actual German Air Force and other records from the
   National Archives were returned to Germany some time ago. I don't know
   about the records at Wight-Patterson. They indeed might be a good
   source. Greenwood mentioned that there was a USAF reveiw of the
   foo-fighters done in early 1952. However, I think he is referring to a
   review of the Horten Brothers aircraft as a source of "flying saucers."
   I can't find references to such a "foo-fighter" study in the USAF
   Intelligence Decimal Correspondence File, however the references to the
   German aircraft study are there. If I can find it, there is a later,
   about 1953, USAF intelligence document that referred to lighted objects
   carried by balloons as the source of "foo-fighter" reports. Of course,
   the Germans would know of these since they were the source. I'll see if
   I can find that. I am dubious of this theory. Some "foo-fighter"
   reports are given below from both official and unofficial sources. Best
   regards, Jan N =3D new not in Weinstein's catalogue D =3D reports in
   the catalogue, but with new details N1943.11.26, ---, Bremen, Germany,
   "Rings of flame 2 or 3 feet in diameter, green, corkscrewed thru
   formation, as floating." (Data on Unusual Objects & Missiles
   Encountered on Missions, 8th Air Force files, Feb-May 1945.)
   N1943.12.14, night. Italy on night patrol to Naples, Beaufighter 255th
   RAF Squadron (Night Fighter), "dogfight" with "The Light" a bright
   light which out climbed aircraft.(Letter, Report Form, Logbook extract,
   Andy Roberts' Collection) N1944.06.-- Day, NE of Bari over the Adriatic
   Sea, 3 P-38, 1st Fighter Group, training mission at 33,000 feet,
   objects a silver disk-shaped object at about 50,000. It dropped to
   about 40,000 and stayed over the formation for about 3 minutes, then
   suddenly accelerated North. (CUFOS Report Form) N1944.-----, Night,
   South Atlantic, military transport flying from Brazil to Africa, 4
   pilots, 2 bright lights came toward the plane, separated and went
   around the plane, then they turned and flew along side the aircraft for
   four or five minutes. (Alexandria, LA, TOWN TALK, 20 April 1980.) (cf.
   10 July 1947, Arizona report.) D1944.08.10, the Records of the 792d
   Bombardment Squadron's history confirms that Lt. Reidas was indeed on
   the mission described by him on this date. There are no details about
   the mission or bombing results or unusual sightings. As he was detacted
   for this mission, mission reports would probably be in the attacking
   unit's files. (792d Bomb Sq History) N1944.08.10, Night, B-29, 40th
   Bombardment Group, two aircraft crews reported seeing a green flare
   followed by an amber-orange flash horizontally accross the nose of the
   aircraft. (There were no fighters, or searchlights on this mission and
   flak was meager.) (40th Bomb Sq History) N1944.10.30, 2125 hours,
   Germany leaving Cologne, Halifax III, 640 RAF Squadron, flight engineer
   and gunner, saw a ball of fire following the aircraft that was on a
   heading of 107 degrees. It appeared to be closing. Aircraft took
   evasive action and the light was lost. A few seconds later an aircraft
   on port caught fire. (Letter, Andy Roberts' collection) N1944.10.30,
   0145 hours, Munich, Germany, 419th Bomb Squadron, B-17 on a "Lone Wolf"
   mission. A light blue ball of fire paced aircraft for a time. ("The
   Raven," 301st Bomb Group veteran's publication, August 1994.) N
   NLT1944.11.10, daylight, Coast of Formosa just west of Okayama at
   25,000 feet, B-29?, black dot seem to hang in the air without movement
   or explosition. It was smaller than a flak burst, and looked like an
   object rather than a cloud of smoke. (Weekly Intelliegence Summary #11,
   10 Nov 44, HQ, Eastern Air Command, South East Asia) N1944.11.22,
   1900-2200 hours, Germany, Coblenz, 422d Night Fighter Squadron (NFS),
   4-6 "jets" reported, 3 on line abreast.(9th Tactical Air Command (TAC)
   Operation Summary (Opsum) #167) N1944.11.27-28, between 2330-0330
   hours, Germany, Cologne-Bonn area, 422d NFS, 3 "Jets" seen by patrols.
   (9th TAC, Opsum #173) N1945.------ -------- Formosa, Radio operator on
   a B-24 saw a vertical chain of luminous globes, one following the other
   in a spiral climb towards the aircraft. They continued to climb out of
   view. (Stringfield, Inside Saucer Post.....Blue, page 8.) (Balloons on
   a line?) N1945.02.22, Night, Near Chichi Jima, B-24 #501, 98th Bomb
   Group, "2 exhausts" seen, indication on SCR 717C radar. Followed for 20
   miles and disappeared. (Letter to Project Blue Book ("Life magazine
   file," from diary entry.)) N1945.03.26, Night, Near Iwo Jima, P-61-B,
   549th Night Fighter Squadron (NFS), Gunner saw lights on an airborne
   object that followed them through turns. P-61 gave chase, with a slight
   radar contact. Object pulled out of sight. (549th NFS Unit History for
   March 1945) N1945.03.27, Night, Near Iwo Jima, P-61-B, 549th NFS, night
   patrol saw lighted object similar to the one encountered on the
   previous night. (549th NFS Unit History for March 1945) N1945.04.03,
   Night, Japan, B-29 formation, two orange balls of fire. One near IP and
   the other over the target appeared to come from the ground and then





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 19

                            Re: 'Sturrock Panel'

From: greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 17:32:11 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 15:59:42 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Sturrock Panel'

>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Sturrock Panel'
>Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 06:49:35 -0400 >>


>I was referencing the original Easton list, and not the response
>from Fran. Easton's list was comprised of topics, or subjects,
>and not based on specific cases.  Sorry that I didn't make it
>more clear.  I get fairly close to the "water's edge" each month
>at that FUFOR Executive Committee Meetings (as an advisor, rather
>than officer).  But I'm still learning.

>Steve

Steve,

Understood.......I withdraw the suggestion.

Greg






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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 19

                          Re: The 'SSE' On Skeptics

From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 21:43:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 16:01:23 -0400
Subject: Re: The 'SSE' On  Skeptics


>Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 07:32:47 +0200
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The 'Society For Scientific Exploration'
  On  Skeptics


>>Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 15:55:38 -0400
>>From: bruce maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: UFO UpDate: The 'Society For Scientific Exploration' On Skeptics
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>>

>>About ten years ago I wrote a paper entitled "Skeptical of the
>>Skeptics." The basic point of the paper was that skeptics had
>>modified, distorted or ignored UFO data which would conflict with
>>their explanations. I incorporated this work into my paper
>>"Still In Default", which I can email to anyone interested..

>But rather than emailing Bruce, the paper can easily be
>accessed at:

>http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/discussion/indefault.htm

>or simply go to the "UFO literature" section of the website via
>the main index page:

>http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler

>and download it from there.

After you download the paper from there.... write to me for
INTELLECTON...... to keep your brain from falling asleep amd
FRIGHT NIGHT... in case you  have insomnia....
or even if you don't have insomnia. Both of these papers are
GUARANTEED to have you thinking in no time (in case you ever
stopped).





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 19

                    Ham Radio Expert Assists SETI Search

From: Stig Agermose <wanderer@post8.tele.dk>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 11:52:16 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 16:03:27 -0400
Subject: Ham Radio Expert Assists SETI Search

From: The Arkansas Democrat-Gazette.
URL:

http://www.ardemgaz.com/today/Bealiens
19.html


Stig


*******


Ham radio expert assists search for
intelligent life in outer space


MARK WALLER

ARKANSAS DEMOCRAT-GAZETTE


As the narrow asphalt drive ascends the hill, it becomes a
forbiddingly rugged gravel road. It passes a "Private Property"
sign on a tree before curving to the left and into a clearing.

Atop a hill near Roland and Pinnacle Mountain, a radio tower
rises 100 feet into the air. Next to the tower's base stands a
black satellite dish 12 feet in diameter. Next to that is Steve
Carver's house.

Inside the house, Carver's 15-year-old stepdaughter watches
television, but the program is disrupted by a disembodied voice
intruding on the audio.

It's Carver talking on his ham radio again as he sits in the
basement at his table of computers, radios and an oscilloscope.

Carver doesn't just talk over the airwaves. He keeps his dish
trained on his favorite constellation, Drago, 24 hours a day,
listening for a signal from intelligent life elsewhere in the
universe.

Carver is a volunteer coordinator for the nonprofit Search for
Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence League Inc. Members around the
world operate 57 listening stations.

Carver's station is the only one he knows of in Arkansas.

The group's goal, Carver says, is to get 5,000 stations running
worldwide. Then the Earth would be like a fly's eye, able to
look in all directions at once, he explains.

The National Aeronautics and Space Administration engaged in
SETI research until Congress cut its funding in 1993, according
to the league's Internet site. Since then, the league has been
creating a network of volunteers to continue the work.

The league recruits ham radio operators like Carver to listen
for signals. It enlists computer whizzes who analyze
irregularities in the data.

Carver knows it's unlikely that the computer in his basement
will pick up an alien signal out of the noise his dish
constantly receives. He likens his hobby to playing the lottery.

"Chances of winning are so low, you might as well not do it. But
if you don't play, you can't win. And somebody who plays will
win."

Carver believes that if enough amateur radio operators around
the world build listening stations like his, someone will catch
that fateful signal.

"The odds are just intimidating, but the answer is force in
numbers. Before I die, I want to make contact. I want to make it
happen. That's my only goal right now."

A patent lawyer, Carver has worked as an electrical engineer for
the Federal Communications Commission and radio stations. He's
been a ham radio operator for 40 years.

His antenna tower is for communicating with other people by
radio.

Growing up, Carver lived in 17 different cities because of his
father's job with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. Ham radio
proved to be a reliable companion, giving him the power to talk
with people in other countries.

He didn't get into SETI until a couple years ago when he picked
up a faint Morse code message from Romania. It convinced him he
could catch signals that would usually be impossible to hear.

"It all came to me one day that this will work. It takes a
special interest in radio to do this and a special background in
radio. This is my thing, picking up weak signals."

He's also convinced it's a mathematical certainty that
intelligent life is out there. He believes humans will first
discover it by hearing signals from an uninhabited space probe
that may pass close enough to Earth for detection.

Carver raves about the rapid development of technology that he
says makes it increasingly affordable for amateurs to join the
search.

Standard desktop computers can now handle the task of receiving
data.

"Signal-to-noise ratio, that's a concept that has perplexed me
all my life. You can hear a signal, but it's too noisy," he
says. "Computers can now instantly divide up a signal into a
million little slices."

Old satellite dishes made for television reception cost almost
nothing because better models are replacing them, he says. For
now, Carver says, no license is required just to listen for
signals and not transmit any.

Carver built his four-bedroom house on the remote hill partly so
his equipment won't interfere with neighbors' small appliances.

Regardless of that, his wife, Nancy, says a few neighbors
occasionally have a cordless phone conversation invaded by
Carver's ham radio chatting.

Nancy says she usually ends up helping Steve install antennas
and dishes in the yard. "Oh dear," she says at the thought of
how many more trees he may want to cut so he can erect more
gear.

"His hobbies become obsessions," she says. "He'll be obsessed
with one for a couple years. As long as he has his interests and
he's happy, that's good."

"I'm not sure I believe that we're going to make contact with
people from outer space. But I do think it's valid to try. For
his sake, I hope we will. He would be so excited."

Carver says people sometimes tell him their alien abduction
stories when they find out he's in SETI. But he hasn't seen
enough evidence to believe aliens have visited this planet.

"I've never seen a UFO. I've never been on a UFO. I've never
been abducted by aliens," he stresses.

If a SETI member picks up that first message, he says, it will
be sent up the ranks in SETI for verification. Then, he says, he
doesn't know what SETI or the government may do with the
information and whether it will be possible to decode.

As he explains SETI's activities, he occasionally refers to the
movie Contact starring Jodie Foster, who played a scientist
involved with a similar project to find alien intelligence.

"When it happens, it won't be as dramatic as the movie, not as
filmable. It's going to be just a little blip on a screen."

"But the most profound message we will ever see is that we are
not alone," he says.


This article was published on Sunday,
July 19, 1998

Copyright =A9 1998, Arkansas
Democrat-Gazette, Inc. All rights
reserved.








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   Jul > Jul 19

                          BWW Media Alert 19980719

From: <BufoCalvin@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 10:28:20 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 16:04:50 -0400
Subject: BWW Media Alert 19980719

Bufo Calvin
P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA  94596
Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Website: <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin">http://members.aol.com/bufo
calvin<;/a>
<A HREF="surprise link to Amazon.com">http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=048
6230945/bufosweirdworldA/<;/a>
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this
edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that attribution is made
to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with
strangers before you e-mail them something.  If you forward this, please make
sure it is clear that you are forwarding it).

July 19, 1998

There's a lot more on this week than there has been recently...Rosie O'Donnell
is scheduled to air her segment with author Whitley Strieber on Monday.  TNT
is running a bunch of 1970s paranormal documentaries at 9:00 AM this week.
That was a period when you could count on going to your local theatre to see a
Sunn Classic film that would bring you "the incredible truth" about something
or other.  The kind of thing with more question marks than quotations..."Did
aliens create the Los Angeles freeway system?  Is it possible that Bigfoot and
the Loch Ness monster are one and the same?  What reason would anyone to have
to make something like that up?"

Times are generally Pacific unless stated otherwise.

TELEVISION

THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL
Sunday, July 19, 3:00 PM, SCIENCE OF THE IMPOSSIBLE: ALIENS, WHERE ARE THEY?
Sunday, July 19, 5:00 PM, SCIENCE OF THE IMPOSSIBLE: INVISIBLE FORCES (remote
viewing, etc.)
Sunday, July 26 (one week from today), 1:00 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S WORLD OF
STRANGE POWERS: MESSAGES FROM THE DEAD
Sunday, July 26 (one week from today), 1:30 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS
UNIVERSE: ARE ALIENS TRYING TO CONTACT US? (includes the Face on Mars)

THE HISTORY CHANNEL
Friday, July 24, 11:00 AM, 20TH CENTURY WITH MIKE WALLACE: ARE WE ALONE?
(UFOs)
Friday, July 24, 4:00 PM, 20TH CENTURY WITH MIKE WALLACE: ARE WE ALONE? (UFOs)

THE LEARNING CHANNEL
Sunday, July 26 (a week from today), 6:00 PM. UFO: STORIES OF ABDUCTION
Sunday, July 26 (a week from today), 9:00 PM. UFO: STORIES OF ABDUCTION
Tuesday, July 28 (a week from this Tuesday), 7:00 PM, ALIEN HUNTERS (UFO
documentary: I think it will include the recent Russian giant case, but don't
count on it)
Tuesday, July 28 (a week from this Tuesday), 10:00 PM, ALIEN HUNTERS (UFO
documentary: I think it will include the recent Russian giant case, but don't
count on it)
Wednesday, July 29 (a week from this Wednesday), 7:00 PM, SKYWATCHERS (UFO
enthusiasts)
Wednesday, July 29 (a week from this Wednesday), 10:00 PM, SKYWATCHERS (UFO
enthusiasts)

PBS
You can't count on any scheduling here, but look for FULL CIRCLE WITH MICHALE
PALIN: VIETNAM AND THE PHILIPPINES (the Monty Python alum with visit with a
psychic surgeon, among other things)

THE SCI-FI CHANNEL
They've increased the SIGHTINGS re-runs, although they've gotten a bit quirky
with the schedule.  Figure 9:00 AM, 4:00 PM, and 8:00 PM most weekdays.
Sundays are typically 8:00 AM and 11:00 PM.

THE SCIENCE CHANNEL
Runs weird programming at 6:00 AM, 6:30 AM, 2:00 PM, 2:30 PM, 10:00 PM, and
10:30 PM.

SYNDICATED
THE ROSIE O'DONNELL SHOW, Monday, July 20, guests include Whitley Strieber.
The tabloids are saying Rosie suggests that she has been abducted.

TNT
Monday, July 20, 9:00 AM, BEYOND BELIEF
Tuesday, July 21, 9:00 AM, ENCOUNTER WITH THE UNKNOWN (featuring Rod Serling)
Wednesday, July 22, 9:00 AM, MYSTERIES FROM BEYOND EARTH (From the "golden
era" of the 1970s paranormal documentary.  Not only UFOs, but other things as
well).
Thursday, July 22, 9:00 AM, OVERLORDS OF THE UFO (a great, kind of tacky,
"documentary", again from the mid-seventies).
Friday, July 23, 9:00 AM, UFO (this one is something a bit different, going
back to 1956)
___________________________

This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!"
____________________________

You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly
redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by
e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com.  You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to
Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert the same way. Also, please let me know if
there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, t
he week before.
_____________________________

**OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an
Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS
encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions:
however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece
or others presented under my own name.  For more information on OPUS, see its we
bsite at http://members.aol.com/josephxx3






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                      Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS

From: Stanton T. Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 13:40:12 -0300
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 16:54:48 -0400
Subject: Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS


> From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 08:29:29 +0200
> Subject: The Affidavit for Col. Philip Corso (ret.)

> >From CAUS. Go to

> http://www.caus.org/FOIA/CorsoAffidavit.htm

> Links are preceded by asterisks.

> Stig

> *******

> Peter A. Gersten, Esq.
> Attorney for Plaintiff
> Arizona Bar #016925
> Sedona, Arizona 86351

> UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
> THE DISTRICT OF ARIZONA

> CITIZENS AGAINST UFO SECRECY, INC.
> 7349 Via Paseo Del Sur #515-194
> Scottsdale, Arizona 85258
> (602) 818-8248
> Plaintiff,

> v.

> DEPARTMENT OF ARMY

> Defendant,
> )
> )
> )         CIV98-0538PHXROS
> )
> )
> )          AFFIDAVIT
> )
> )


> I, Col. Philip J. Corso, (Ret.) do hereby swear, under the penalties of
> perjury, that the following statements are true:

> That at all times hereinafter mentioned, I was a member and officer of
> the defendant.

> That during my tenure with the defendant I was a member of President
> Eisenhower's National Security Council and former head of the Foreign
> Technology Desk at defendant's Research & Development department.

> That on or about July 6, 1947, while stationed at Fort Riley, Kansas, I
> personally observed a four-foot non-human creature with bizarre-looking
> four-fingered hands, thin legs and feet, and an oversized incandescent
> light bulb-shaped head. The eye sockets were oversized and almond
> shaped and pointed down to its tiny nose. The creature's skull was
> overgrown to the point where all its facial features were arranged
> frontally, occupying only a small circle on the lower part of the head.
> There were no eyebrows or any indications of facial hair. The creature
> had only a tiny flat slit for a mouth and it was completely closed,
> resembling more of a crease or indentation between the nose and the
> bottom of the chinless skull than a fully functioning orifice.

> That in 1961, I came into possession of what I refer to as the 'Roswell
> File.' This file contained field reports, medical autopsy reports and
> technological debris from the crash an extraterrestrial vehicle in
> Roswell, New Mexico in 1947.

> That I have personally read the medical autopsy reports which refer to
> the autopsy of the previously described creature that I saw in 1947 at
> Fort Riley, Kansas.

> That said autopsy reports indicated the autopsy was performed at Walter
> Reed Hospital, which was under the authority of the defendant at the
> time of the autopsy.

> That said autopsy report referred to the creature as an
> 'extraterrestrial biological entity.'

> __________________________

> Colonel Philip J. Corso (ret.)

> Sworn before me
> this day of ___ May, 1998.

According to the Eisenhower Library, Colonel Corso was NEVER a
member of the National Security Council and did NOT attend any
of its meetings. He was connected with a subgroup. In addition
according to the Roster of the R and D unit under General
Trudeau, there only 2 members in the foreign technology Div. Lt.
Colonel Corso was the junior officer. He claimed to have been
head of the group. In other words, there seems to have been some
very serious misrep- resentation. According to Peter Gersten,
Corso and his son, when asked if the statement about his being
an NSC member whould be deleted from the affidavit, both said
no.







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   Jul > Jul 20

               Roswell 'Flowered Tape' Mentioned At The Get-Go

From: Stig Agermose <wanderer@post8.tele.dk>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 01:49:53 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 05:22:37 -0400
Subject: Roswell 'Flowered Tape' Mentioned At The Get-Go

Received from Larry Clark via New York MUFON's mailing list


Stig

----------------------------------------

Date: 19 Jul 1998 02:02:12 -0000
Return-Path: <NYMUFON-return-@listbot.com>
From: "Larry Clark" <lclark@ibm.net>

<snip>

Subject: Mum's the word
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 17:56:27 -0400

NY Mutual UFO Network Postings - http://www.nymufon.org


What's new on the state site:

1) Regarding Roswell in the Schenectady Union Star / 1947:
   [July 9, 1947]

July 9: Army, Navy Launch Campaign to Halt 'Flying Disc' Rumors
Mentions aftermath of Roswell reports and statements by Haught &
Ramey. Also mentioned: "Those who saw the object said it had a
flowered paper tape around it bearing the initials 'D.P.'.

Apparantly, the 'flowered tape' is not a new discovery, but was
mentioned at the get-go.

2) Removed the Amsterdam 7/9/1947 entry. Located more clippings
with pics today, and it appears to have been a meteor that had
about a fistfull of material remaining when it struck the
ground.

3) Search a number of weeks of issues for items related to T.
Beckley the Silencers, in a period described as hot in his book.
While the Scenectady papers were still reporting sightings well
past that time, there were none for the period mentioned. More
significant was his sensational claim of a sighting by two boys,
followed by the discovery of a dead boy nearby found frozen in
the ice the next day. Checked the whole month and there was no
such death reported. I forgot to bring the book along, but there
was another checkable instance of a report of the husband of an
investigator dying suddenly after encountering a MIB in a
Schenectady diner. No doubt hoagy also. (Unless of course, those
nefarious MIBs deleted the obituary entry.) Better to check this
stuff out than go around speading tabloid stories as 'research'
:?)

So out the Silencer derived references go tonight.

4) While clipping fishing, also turned up two new reports from
the general time frame.

Regards,

Larry Clark







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                          UK Crop Circle Conference

From: Stig Agermose <wanderer@post8.tele.dk>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 01:54:06 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 05:20:24 -0400
Subject: UK Crop Circle Conference


From The BBC.

URL:

http://news.bbc.co.uk:80/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_134000/134862.stm


Stig


*******


Saturday, July 18, 1998 Published at 13:11 GMT 14:11 UK

Sci/Tech


Unravelling crop circles


(Image: Crop circles: stunning designs)

(Audio: Clinton Rodgers reports)


A conference is being organised in the West Country in Britain
to try to make sense of one of the great untold mysteries of our
time - crop circles.

Experts from all over the world are meeting near Pewsey in
Wiltshire to study the phenomenon that has baffled science for
years.

(Audio: Crop circle enthusiast Rod Bearcloud: Historical
importance)

Many people claim crop circles are really elaborate hoaxes. But
those attending the conference say that is a cynical view based
on ignorance.

The organisers do not believe the conference will provide all
the answers, but see it as a useful exchange of views among
those who believe greater forces are at work.



Fitting location


(Image: Could aliens be behind crop circles?)

The organisers could not have picked a more fitting location for
the conference. Already this year, 40 crop circles have sprung
up in fields across Wiltshire.

The West Country has long been the focal point of those in
Britain who believe that crop circles are the work of extra
terrestrial forces.

(Audio: Conference organiser Francine Blake: Greater forces at
work)

Thousands of crop circles have been reported throughout the
world, with 90% coming from Britain. Enthusiasts say many more
go unreported.



Hoax claim


In 1991 two landscape painters, David Chorley, 62, and Douglas
Bower, 67, claimed they were behind the phenomenon. They said
they conceived their hoax in 1978, while sitting in a pub.

The duo said that for the past 13 years they had been sneaking
around southern England at night, fashioning as many as 25 to 30
new circles each growing season.

Their efforts apparently inspired copycats. Other individuals
and groups have come forward claiming to be behind hundreds of
crop circles both in Britain and abroad.

But enthusiasts maintain crop circles are the work of forces we
do not understand.

There is a new scientific discipline based around the study of
crop circles. It is known as cereology.


Internet Links


*Crop circle database

*UK UFO Network

*Circlemakers: England crop circle makers

*The Crop Circular: Research on crop circles


The BBC is not responsible for the content of external internet
sites.







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                       Why Migranes Don'T Explain UFOs

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 23:01:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 05:47:47 -0400
Subject: Why Migranes Don'T Explain UFOs

The hypothesis advanced in the recently posted Magonia claims
that some close encounters may be the result of migrane or
migrane-like phenomena, in keeping with the theory that UFOs are
accounted for by the Misperception, Hallucination, and Hoax
Hypothesis (MHH).

The problem with the hypothesis is that the presented migrane
case and the comparison UFO cases differ in significant aspects:

1) The migrane account does not present any definite visual
phenomenon. By comparison, the UFO accounts present definite and
long-lasting visual phenomena which are clearly differentiated
from their background.

2) The migrane account reports a sort of free-floating, quiet
emotion. By comparison, the UFO witnesses primary emotion in the
comparison cases is fear.

3) UFO accounts similar to those presented for comparison also
manifest physical trace evidence, and are reported with multiple
independent accounts obtained on the record from witnesses. No
migrane headache which generates physical trace evidence exists
or can exist. Multiple simultaneous migranes are unheard of, and
multiple simultaneous hallucinations with the same content are
also not part of the mainstream psychological literature.

4) No information has been presented to indicate that any
migrane visual disturbance has any close parallel to the visual
perception of a UFO. One would expect the migrane literature to
be replete with complex structured visual hallucinations if this
were the case. However, one must wonder why the author neglected
to select such a case to present against the UFO cases. Surely
not all "UFO migranes" are reported as UFO cases and none as the
effect of migranes. Surely there would be a continuum of more
and more UFO-like migranes if this were a valid explanation of
even some close encounters.

As far as scientific thinking goes, the migrane hypothesis is
pretty bad. Though at least we get a hypothesis:

- Migranes cause some close encounters; for instance, those
where the witness reports a headache afterward. -

But what evidence is used to support the hypothesis?

Why, anecdotal evidence from migrane sufferers. While anecdotal
testimony from UFO witnesses is commonly scorned by MHH
proponents, it is presumably acceptable when it supports MHH.

Second, the anecdotal evidence presented, presumably the best
available - that is, the closest possible to a UFO experience -
bears little or no resemblance to a UFO account. In fact, about
the most that can be said of it is that it describes an
experience where the sufferer felt calm, tingly, heard a hum
from crickets that somehow manifested itself as color, and
continued to have these feelings for about 20 minutes. In fact,
not only does this have almost no point of similarity with
reliable UFO accounts from the literature, it also has no
resemblance to the UFO accounts provided for comparison. For
instance, in those UFO accounts, the witness reports unnatural
silence, while the migrane account refers to the sound of the
crickets. The UFO accounts refer to an object of specific
appearance, dimensions, location, and behavior, while the
migrane account refers only to a generally altered sense of
reality. The UFO accounts describe fear on the part of the
witness, while a tranquil emotion is reported by the migrane
sufferer.

The author then states, attempting to support by suggestion what
was not supported by the evidence: "Sacks writes of . . .
'free-wheeling states of hallucinosis, illusion, or dreaming'
which may be experienced during intense migraine auras, and be
manifest as confused or confabulatory states of which the
patient retains imperfect recollection.  These states are
composed of coherent, dramatically-organised  series of images,
and are usually compared by patients to intense, involuntary
daydreams or daymares."

One must wonder why the author did not choose one of those
accounts rather than the poorly matched one presented, if the
other accounts are such "coherent, dramatically-organised series
of images, [which] are usually compared by patients to intense,
involuntary daydreams or daymares." One can only suppose that
none of these are reported in the literature, or that none of
those reported have any resemblance to UFO material. In either
case, the contention that migrane symptoms approximate UFO
phenomena remains unsupported

Now an obvious and important discriminator for the truth of this
hypothesis would be the presence, somewhere in the hundreds or
thousands of hours of laboratory observation of migrane
sufferers, of one close encounter hallucination. The absence of
such an account makes it seem likely that no such experience
exists.

Yet another discriminator would be the presence of a likeness
between UFO reports which cannot be explained by this mechanism
and those which presumably can. If this likeness exists, one
must account for why the explanatory cause does not have
distinguishing characteristics. Clearly, this has not been done.
Yet there are many UFO reports, identical to those indicated to
be explained by the migrane hypothesis, which have multiple
witnesses, physical trace effects, and even photographs. In some
cases there are headaches, in some not. Why are those accounts
not caused by migrane similar in nature to those which
presumably are? In any other science, this would be a broad hint
that the hypothesis is incorrect, and that a more fundamental
cause for UFO reports must be sought.

The author then draws a tenuous analogy between a crisp
description of a UFO and another variant of a migrane
experience. The connection rests solely on the presence of
"zig-zag" lines perceived as part of the migraine scotomata.
Anyone with experience of this phenomenon knows that it is
similar to enlarging the blind spot to slowly cover from the
entire eye, and cannot be confused with "an object on a patch of
soil in the garden which was wine red in colour and about the
size of a drinks tray [which] remained on the ground for a few
minutes, then suddenly . . . took off, like a coin being
flipped, and spun up into the air, revealing its underside with
a series of reinforcements on the rim [and] then seemed to head
for the window [where it] gave out a blue flash".

Now, science requires the following:

1.Observe something which needs explaining (the observation).

2.Formulate a mechanism which explains it (the hypothesis).

3.Determine characteristics which differentiate an observation
consistent with the hypothesis from one which is inconsistent
with the hypothesis (the differentiator) . 4.Formulate an
experiment or an observation which will identify if the
differentiator is present.

5.Perform the experiment or observation.

6.Record and publish the results for comment and attempted
reproduction by others. If the differentiator is confirmed, then
the hypothesis may be considered correct, otherwise it is
considered incorrect.

The author of the Magonia article put forward 1 and 2, but fails
to perform 3, 4, and 5. That being the case, 6 is moot, and the
Magonia article is not science. It is no better than what many
call "pseudoscience". In fact, the contrast of the MHH
explanations with science is clear, since MHH explanations seem
to operate as follows:

1. Select an isolated aspect of the UFO phenomenon. Ignore all
of the rest of the data. Ignore any cross phenomenon patterns.

2. Find any natural, medical or optical phenomenon that bears
even a tiny resemblance to the isolated aspect.

3. Claim that the vague resemblance demonstrates that the
explanation must be true for at least some subset of UFO
reports.

4. Do not provide any discriminator. Require opponents to do so.
Evade any discriminators or results which tend to discredit the
explanation.

5. If any explanation is discredited, claim it applies to some
other case, or that some variation on the explanation works, or
switch to a completely different explanation and maintain that
the original explanation was never intended to apply to the
specific case, but that some other one does, and that the
proposed explanation applies to other cases.

The weakest part of these sort of "explanations" is the need to
have a wide variety of physical, optical, psychological and
medical phenomena produce an observable result which has a
fairly uniform appearance and behavior with widespread patterns
across demographic and cultural groups (not to mention
photographs, physical traces, and medical traces, which are also
reasonably uniform). Why should migranes, mirages, delusions,
and hoaxes all produce UFOs - and, more importantly, the same
kind of UFOs? The obvious answer is - they don't. We'll have to
look deeper than the superficial MHH for answers to UFOs.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/library.htm
------






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   Jul > Jul 20

                    Re: One For The Conspiracy Theorists

From: "Keith Woodard" <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 01:36:43 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 05:50:32 -0400
Subject: Re: One For The Conspiracy Theorists


> Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 09:34:16 -0700 (MST)
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Rob Meyer <robmeyer@sedona.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: One For The Conspiracy Theorists

<snip>

> Did all of these men die on or about the same day and did Corso
> and of the same heart conditions

> Did all of these men die on or about the same day as
> did Corso and of the same heart conditions?

Corso died Thursday, July 16, a week after Paetz.  Everything else I know
is at:

http://www.latimes.com/sbin/iawrapper?NS-search-set=/35b2f/aaaa0023pb2fb02&
NS-doc-offset=0&NS-adv-search=0&









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                                 Re: The Rod

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 21:56:40 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 05:45:18 -0400
Subject: Re: The Rod

>Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 17:08:11 -0700
>From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Rod

>You can compare your sighting with rod photographs on:

>http://www.roswellrods.com/

>Joe and his wife are the best experts on the phenomenon and
>respond to any email sent from the web site.

>Also Jim Peters knows a bit about rods.  You can reach him at:

>James_Peters@compuserve.com

>I must admit that I was quite skeptical about these high speed
>thingies; but, the information on the web page has forced me to
>keep an open mind about it.

>Terry

Terry,

Thanks for the information. I looked at Joe's web site; what I
saw seems to fall somewhere in between his "insect," "white" and
"spear" categories. What I saw had a shape somewhat like:

             ____
   _________/    \___
  |                  \         ---->
  |_________      ___/
            \____/


But I saw it so briefly I'm not sure of any of the angles on it,
but it had anguler corners, not rounded ones. Its perfect
bilateral symmetry stood out.

Thanks for your note too, Greg (St. Pierre). I don't know what to
think if you get quite a few potential rods on just a 45-min.
video tape the first or second times you try it, while most of us
go all our lives without seeing one. It could only mean, if
they're the real things, that they behave like other UFOI and
show themselves only when and to whom they wish.

Jim Deardorff






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                  Re: Down-To-Earth About Aliens (On MUFON)

From: Stig Agermose <wanderer@post8.tele.dk>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 02:58:53 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 05:32:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Down-To-Earth About Aliens (On MUFON)

To those abduction researchers who consider Roger Leir's course
of action dubious, I would like to say that this email is sent
with the express intention of informing and not as an
endorsement. It is taken from Sunday's Los Angeles Times and the
URL is:

http://www.latimes.com/HOME/NEWS/VENTURA/VCNEWS/t000066331.html


Stig


*******


Sunday, July 19, 1998


Down-to-Earth About Aliens


Mystery: Like it or not, the Mutual UFO Network is peopled by
folks like your neighbors, friends and you.


By JOEL P. ENGARDIO, Special to The Times


THOUSAND OAKS--Your real estate agent, airline pilot, even your
doctor: They are the faces of the Mutual UFO Network, a national
group of 5,000 everyday people and working professionals who
like to talk about space aliens.

Determined to prove the existence of extraterrestrials, they
track the skies armed with binoculars, a toll-free number and an
insatiable desire to reconcile truth with conspiracy.

At MUFON chapters across the country--such as the one that meets
each month at the Thousand Oaks library--members gather to hear
lectures on crop circles, ancient bacteria on martian rocks or
any other mystery that would inspire a good "X-Files" episode.

The curious sit among the convinced, as professed alien
abduction survivors swap stories with the hypnotherapists who
treat them.

The Ventura/Santa Barbara County chapter is one of MUFON's more
active--and interesting--with more than 100 members.

There is "Ellen," who sells high-end property in Santa Barbara
and says she has been the victim of multiple alien abductions.
The most convincing time, she said, was the night her husband
was awakened by a blinding light and noticed she was missing
from the bed. A safe subject at MUFON, but she wouldn't dare
tell her clients.

Joe Vallejo, a commercial airline pilot from Westlake Village,
recalls the flight from Los Angeles to Denver when he and his
cockpit crew watched an unidentified aircraft fly next to the
727, doing maneuvers that seemingly defied physics.

But the local member with the most talked-about claim--one that
gets him booked on the UFO lecture circuit from Tucson to
Tampa--is chapter president and Thousand Oaks podiatrist Roger
K. Leir.

He caused a stir after announcing he surgically removed apparent
alien implants from some of his patients' feet.

Call them wacky, but these UFO enthusiasts hold respectable day
jobs and don't seem any different from your next-door neighbor.
That is the way MUFON founder and national director Walt Andrus]
intended it.

"We don't contribute to the kook factor," Andrus said. "Our
membership is by invitation only, based on professional
occupation and education. We keep the kooks out. And if one
slips in, they'll be dropped immediately."

Andrus tries to distance his group from the "Roswell or bust"
bumper sticker movement that drives UFO mania today. The
Internet has spawned a cavalcade of conspiracy-peddling Web
sites offering the latest alien update via direct mail
videotape, while carnival-like UFO conventions draw thousands to
hotels across the country. The hype, Andrus says, gives UFOs a
bad name.

"There are fools and charlatans born every minute. People will
say anything if they think they can make some money," Andrus
said. "But we want to investigate and resolve the UFO phenomenon
using scientific means."

Indeed, UFO enthusiasts got a boost last month when a panel of
scientists from Stanford, Cornell and Princeton
universities--along with institutions in Germany and
France--suggested that some UFO sightings do include unexplained
physical evidence and deserve serious scientific study.

The first independent scientific review of UFOs in nearly 30
years, the study concluded that scientists might learn
more--either to better understand or debunk alleged UFO
sightings--if they can get past the ridicule that has prevented
credible study in the past.

"This is a wake-up call that scientists better stop tee-heeing
because the public is demanding a serious look at their claims,"
Leir said.



MUFON Is Born


The UFO culture was just as outrageous--though less
sophisticated--as it is now when Andrus helped start MUFON in
1969. It was the year the U.S. Air Force decided to stop
officially investigating UFOs after an Air Force-commissioned
study by the University of Colorado recommended that UFOs did
not warrant further research.

The report noted the absurdity surrounding the subject, even
surveying a UFO convention that sold hair from dogs from the
planet Venus.

"They went to one circus convention and were put off by the
malarkey," Andrus said. "They got a bad impression at the worst
place they could go."

So Andrus, who worked as a plant manager for Motorola, and a few
of his friends--including a university chemistry professor and
an aerospace engineer for McDonnell Douglas--organized MUFON in
an effort to shape up the UFO counterculture and pick up where
the Air Force left off in credible investigations.

For 30 years, Andrus has run the group as its only full-time
staff member at the national headquarters in Seguin, Texas.
Andrus himself answers the toll-free UFO hotline--which rings
about a dozen times a day--while three part-time workers help
transfer into a computer database tens of thousands of cases
stuffed in file cabinets that clutter the small office.

Andrus talks regularly to MUFON's state directors, trying to get
a handle on the latest UFO trend.

Local chapters train members to become field investigators,
following a meticulous protocol used to track sightings,
interview witnesses, make drawings and comb the ground for
evidence. The Ventura/Santa Barbara County chapter plans a
training session later this summer.

Before thinking flying saucer, Andrus said, investigators are
taught to first try to rule out anything else the sighting might
have been.

Though a firm believer in UFOs and even alien abductions, Andrus
admits that 90% of the reports his group investigates are
nothing more than a meteor shower or the Goodyear blimp. Not to
mention all the kids who place prank calls to the hotline.

"It's that 10% that defies any earthly explanation we call
UFOs," he said.



'The Aliens and the Scalpel'


A thousand UFO enthusiasts packed a Greensboro, N.C., auditorium
at MUFON's national symposium two years ago, rapt by images of
the surgical extraction of tiny, T-shaped objects--in the minds
of audience members, alien implants--embedded deep in feet that
both doctor and patient swear had never been operated on before.

After cheers and a standing ovation, the crowd swarmed the
podium, pressing programs toward the presenting doctor for his
autograph. Roger Leir, the 61-year-old podiatrist from Thousand
Oaks, had come out of the UFO closet to a celebrity's welcome.

"It was a bit disconcerting at first," said Leir, who initially
used the moniker Dr. X to protect his reputation and the 30-year
podiatry practice he had built. "I didn't want problems with my
patients or colleagues. People might think I was a kook if word
got out I was working in a field looked at by some with a
jaundiced eye."

While attending a UFO convention in 1995, Leir was asked to read
some foot X-rays. The podiatrist noted he saw some foreign
bodies that looked like wires or screws; typical remnants of
reconstructive foot surgery. But medical records did not
indicate any operation, and the patient claimed to be a victim
of alien abduction. Leir was intrigued.

Using the justification that the patient clearly had something
foreign in her foot, Leir decided to operate. Whether it was of
alien origin or simply a carpet nail she stepped on didn't
matter.

He sent the little T-shaped objects, covered in a dense, shiny
membrane, to New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology,
commonly known as New Mexico Tech, for analysis in the
metallurgical engineering department. One word in the lab
report--"meteorite"--convinced Leir he was on to something. It
was real scientific proof, he said, that he used as the
highlight of his UFO lectures.

"The lab says particles of meteorite, and my patient sure hasn't
been stepping on any meteors," Leir told his audiences.

But New Mexico Tech associate professor Paul A. Fuierer, the
author of the metallurgical study, said the meteorite theory has
been taken out of context.

"The object reminded me of what could be meteorite material, but
I'm not prepared to say it is meteorite," Fuierer said, noting
that the objects consisted of common elements such as aluminum
and iron. "I have to admit they were odd-looking samples, but
I'm by no means saying these are alien implants."

Despite the controversy, the mystery surrounding the objects
created such a buzz that X-rays began pouring into Leir's
office. And it wasn't just feet anymore. There were films of
hands, legs, even jaws.

Limited as a podiatrist, Leir enlisted the help of three
colleagues in the Los Angeles area--a dentist, a radiologist and
a general surgeon--who were willing to read X-rays and MRIs,
pass on their medical opinion and perform more operations.

There have been seven such procedures, with plans for more. But
Leir is cautious.

"They have to do more than just say they have implants before
I'll consider them a surgical candidate," said Leir, who ends up
rejecting most cases because perceived anomalies in the X-rays
can be explained more often than not.

"If they think something is still there, they can pursue it
somewhere else. It's up to hard science--not me--to determine
what the objects are. I'm just looking for real evidence, not to
prove someone's abduction was real."



Going Mainstream


Despite his continued plunge into UFO research, Leir still
maintains two podiatry offices in Thousand Oaks and Camarillo
that serve 200 patients. He cut back to a four-day workweek when
he was named the local MUFON president but is protective of his
profession.

"I don't involve my practice with my hobby," Leir said. "No one
wants to go to the doctor and be dragged into UFO talk."

But Leir's otherworldly pursuits are no secret among his
patients, considering his appearance on the TV show "Hard Copy,"
his Web site and the 250-page manuscript he has been shopping
around to book publishers. "The Alien and the Scalpel" is the
working title.

Leir's interest in UFOs dates to July 1947, when, as a young
boy, he remembers his father reading aloud a newspaper article
with the headline "Air Force Captures Flying Disc."

That early news report about an alleged alien crash-landing
outside Roswell, N.M., became the touchstone of the modern UFO
movement.

"My dad was really upset when the Air Force came out and denied
it the next day," Leir recalled. "He threw down the paper and
yelled, 'I'm not falling for that! They know the difference
between a weather balloon and a UFO.' His reaction made an
impression on me."

Leir said deciding to go public was easier when he saw national
polls such as one done by Newsweek magazine that said half of
Americans believe UFOs are real and think the government knows
about it, too.

"I also believe," he said. "And I wouldn't be surprised if we've
been secretly [studying and possibly utilizing] alien technology
all along."

With extraterrestrial talk jumping from the supermarket tabloids
into highly successful TV series and movies such as "The
X-Files" and "Men in Black," Leir said today's UFO-friendly
climate lets him worry less about people thinking he is "nuts."

"Years ago, if you said you saw a UFO, it was, 'Yeah, sure, you
saw swamp gas and were drunk,' " Leir said. "Now you see little
aliens selling Volkswagens on TV commercials. People accept the
notion, and it's the skeptics and debunkers who are more likely
to be laughed at now."



The Future of MUFON


More than 60 people attended last month's local MUFON meeting at
the Thousand Oaks library, many of them first-timers who signed
up as members.

Brian Noble and his fiancee Jeannie Casse, both of Camarillo,
went to their first meeting. She is a believer, he is a skeptic.

"I feel there might be extraterrestrial life somewhere, but I
don't think they've made it down to Earth yet," Noble said.

"He wants proof, but I just know," Casse said. "I'm sure there
are hoaxes out there, but they are just helping camouflage the
truth."

Noble said he was apprehensive about MUFON, expecting to find a
group of eccentrics. But after looking around the room and
reading the chapter newsletter, he changed his mind.

"I see everyday, normal people from all walks of life," Noble
said. "And there are some scientific people here, which
impresses me."

Bobbie Lambert of Thousand Oaks also became a new member last
month. She had already attended several meetings and found them
fascinating. As for the inevitable fringe element associated
with UFOs, Lambert said that is easy to ignore, since a bit of
"wackiness will attach itself to anything controversial." She
keeps her new interest mostly to herself, though.

"I'm cautious about who I tell because it's not completely
accepted by the mainstream yet," Lambert said. "But if you just
put out a little feeler, it's amazing to discover the people you
would never expect who end up having a whole lifetime of
experiences. They're just being cautious, too."

MUFON founder Andrus said the more people begin to talk openly
about UFOs, the better the chance of finding some definitive
answers.

After 30 years of gradually helping move UFOs into the
consciousness of pop culture and now the scientific community,
Andrus said he looks forward to a time when MUFON has no reason
to exist.

"If we could resolve the UFO phenomenon tomorrow, we'd close
down," he said. "And that's just more incentive to keep
digging."


Copyright Los Angeles Times =A0






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                                 Re: The Rod

From: Rebecca <XianneKei@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 21:25:47 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 05:35:33 -0400
Subject: Re: The Rod

> Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 17:08:11 -0700
>  From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
>  To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>  Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Rod

>  I must admit that I was quite skeptical about these high speed
>  thingies; but, the information on the web page has forced me to
>  keep an open mind about it.

Are you suggesting that being skeptical precludes one from having an open
mind?

Rebecca






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                P1947: NASA and film about space debris/UFOs

From: Antonio Huneeus <huneeus@IDT.NET>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 20:22:16 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 06:30:02 -0400
Subject: P1947: NASA and film about space debris/UFOs

>Hi List,

>I hope that anyone can help me in the following matter. Years ago I has
>haer the rumor that the NASA has produced a half hour film about space
>debris and UFOs. Do anyone known more about this matter?

>Werner

Hi Werner and List:

There is indeed a short 10-minunte (not half hour) production of
"UFOs" (mostly IFOs) filmed by astronauts in the Gemini and
Apollo missions. It's titled "Photo Aberrations, Debris & UFO's"
and it was put together at the Johnson Space Center in 1979.

I have it as well as an index card of all the film clips used,
and a mostly debunking text written by James Oberg explaining the
images (the film itself is silent with no narration or music).

Most of the images are undoubtedly IFOs (lensflares, space
debris, etc.) but a few are interesting, paricularly the last
image showing an oval, cloud-like objct right over the Moon,
listed in the NASA index card simply as, "Object above moon".

Many of these film clips have been used in countless TV shows,
usually without the IFO explanation.

Regards,
Antonio Huneeus






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                         P1947: Publications of Note

From: Robert Swiatek <swiman@POP.DN.NET>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 23:57:29 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 06:04:47 -0400
Subject: P1947: Publications of Note

List members--

It's a long, hot Summer, with no immediate promise of cool
weather, so I thought this a good time to regale you with a few
new (and obscure?) publications you might not have encountered.

They are, in no particular order:

1)  DER UFO-ABSTURZ BEI CORONA by Don Berliner and Stan Friedman
(this is the German edition of CRASH AT CORONA).  It's a
hardcover, 255-page volume published by Jochen Kopp Verlag of
Rottenburg, Germany.  Don't know the price but it looks like it
would go for about $20 here in the States. Typical of European
books (I think), it lacks a dust jacket but has a colorful
illustration of a crashed UFO imprinted on the cover.

2)  ROSWELL:  THE DECLASSIFIED EVIDENCE.  This is a video/book
package I found in a Borders bookstore.  It consists of the Air
Force's ROSWELL REPORT:  CASE CLOSED as well as a 31-minute
video incorporating the four minutes of MOGUL footage the Air
Force released concurrently with last year's report.  It's put
out by One Twenty West, LLC, of Louisville, KY, and distributed
by Declassified Videos Inc. of Sunrise, FL.  Their phone number
is 1-800-523-9663; their URL is <www.TopSecrets.com>.  I paid
$25 for it. The book is interesting in that the publishers saw
fit to include a transcript of the AF's 24 June 1997 press
conference featuring Col. Haynes and Capt. McAndrew.

3)  UNGEBETENE GASTE by Richard Hall (the German edition of
UNINVITED GUESTS).  It, too, is published by Jochen Kopp Verlag
and is a 382-page hardcover volume with no dust jacket but a
cover illustration.  Verlag's telephone no. is:  (07472)9 12 65.
Again, I don't know the price in either dollars or DMs.

4)  CHANCE VOUGHT V-173 AND XF5U-1 FLYING PANCAKES by Art
Schoeni and Tommy Thomason.  This 34-page, stapled, softcover
booklet contains many B & W pictures of manmade flying discs.
It appears to be self-published at an unknown price (I got mine
from Don Berliner several months ago).  The copyright date is
1992.  The publisher seems to be one Steve Ginter of 1754
Warfield Circle, Simi Valley, California 93063.  No phone number
or ordering information is given.  It's worth trying to obtain
this  small volume, however.

I can try to answer any questions; you all know my e-mail
address.

        --Rob Swiatek






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   Jul > Jul 20

                      Re: Foo-Fighters: The German view

From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 23:20:34 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 06:12:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Foo-Fighters: The German view

Greetings James,

I don't mind if you sent this to Jenny. There has been some good
information published over the years about "foo-fighters".  More
awaits publication. However, ufology, like coinage, seems to be
governed by a variant of Gresham's Law. "Bad information drives
out good."

James Easton wrote:

>Regarding...

>>Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 00:21:43 -0700
>>From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET>
>>Subject: Re: Foo-Fighters: The German view
>>To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

>Jan wrote:

>>Greetings James,

>>>...in Jenny Randles latest book, 'UFO Retrievals', she mentions:

>>>"UK comedian Michael Bentine, then an intelligence officer
>>>supervising the polish forces, told me of the debriefing he carried
>>>out in the  late 1944 on aircrew who had seen the lights during
>>>raids on the secret V-rocket base at Peenemunde and the intense
>>>interest in them shown by US intelligence staff".

>>Not at all surprising since everything about Peenemunde was of great
>>interest to the Allies.

>Jan,

>Very much so, the point was that this may have referred to a
>previously undocumented encounter and there are possibly others. I
>have asked Jenny if there's more specific information she might have
>recorded.

Yes, please do.

>>>In Time-Life's 'The UFO Phenomenon', it's claimed:

>>>"...the notion that these fireballs might be secret weapons soon
>>>faded, since none had ever harmed an Allied plane. Also, as
>>>Americans learned after the war, German pilots saw them, too - and
>>>assumed they were Allied secret weapons".

>>I very much doubt if Time-Life did much research other than to
>>synthesize material from the current UFO literature which repeats
>>this line over and over again.

>Yes, I'm sure that's the case. The fact this wasn't substantiated by
>any evidence didn't contend otherwise.

>>>I would have thought it unlikely that the Nazis had perfected such
>>>technology and if they had, why wouldn't they have made these
>>>'explosive' devices rather than psyops weapons?

>>[...]

>>I have seen references to three small wing or disc shaped weapons,
>>however none had anything like ionizing jets. To say I am dubious
>>of Haribson is about the understatement of this decade.

>Likewise, as I said, "If the papers allegedly uncovered are ever
>published, they might lend more substance to the story".

Perhaps, but I would rather believe that the Rebel Reptilian
Grand Fleet was responsible for Bentwaters than the clap-trap
that Harbiston is trying to sell.

>>The Germans did tow pieces of aircraft above Allied formations and
>>released them into the formations, many times detonating an explosive
>>on the part. The Allied aircrews called these "scare crows." Or the
>>Germans and Japanese tried aerial bombardment, dropping bombs in to
>>the formations. In many case the object was simply psychological.

>Noted and further questions why they would resort to such 'primitive'
>methods if having the technology Harbison claims.

>>>Jenny continues:

>>>"According to Harbison, this was only the beginning of the story...

>>>[...]

>>Good story!  But Nazi saucers stories are a dime a dozen. They were
>>a favorite subject in some German magazines after the war. There are
>>plenty of letter to the American authorities offering such
>>information for a price, a trip to American. Considering the
>>conditions in Germany right after the war, we should be surprised?

>Agreed, I've seen some of these letters.

>>>Greenwood's [Barry Greenwood] independent search of Foo Fighter
>>>records, many years after Harbinson's book appeared, found that all
>>>cases from February 1945 focused closely around that specific date".

>>No, not so....in any case lots more have been found for lots of
>>different dates.

>That's important, thanks for the clarification.

>>>Jenny adds a note of caution:

>>>"Harbinson's claims enter more contentious territory when he
>>>speculates about the Antarctic bases where the Foo Fighters was
>>>developed further by renegade Nazis who escaped the fall of Germany
>>>and whose research was to become the source of subsequent UFO
>>>encounters".

>>Really, just a note of caution?

>Jenny hardly posts a warning and it's arguable whether it's even a
>cautious note!

>I had maybe interpreted that it should be?

>>About this time the whole thing should go into the trash.

>I wouldn't disagree, Jan.

>>When did reports of 'Foo Fighters' cease - were there none at all
>>after a definitive date?

>>That is not so easy. Ferry pilots supposedly were still reporting
>>them in the North Atlantic after the war was over.

>I suspected this wasn't definitive and there were probably subsequent,
>sporadic reports.

>My conclusions, I'm sure like many others, were that the 'Foo Fighter'
>reports evidenced a factual phenomenon, definitely not a secret German
>weapon and that an explanation might lie in the realms of 'ball
>lightning', or something [even remotely] similar.

If you read Lindell, he will lead you to his current thoughts
that foo fighters were night perception problems brought on by
the lack of reference points in the dark, acceleration effects
on the eyes and the body's balance system. These causes people
to think that disembodied lights like stars are doing all sort
of unusual maneuvers.

There are, in fact, such  problems involved in night flying. The
US Navy did a multi-year, multi-million dollar study on such
problems. WW II was at the beginning of the era, and if that
were the case, then we would also expect the Germans, Italians
and Japanese to report similar effects. Ditto, for electrical
phenomena. This was the idea of Alvarez and Robertson. Griggs
apparently did not agree, and both the two other scientists
bowed to his superior knowledge of "foo-fighters."

>I wonder how many later 'UFO' reports from aircraft crews/passengers
>might be unconnected, but actually comparable with the 'Foo Fighter'
>phenomenon?

I expect that UFOs, that is the residuum of unexplained reports,
have multiple causes which are not current well understood nor
well investigated. About the same idea that the Sturrock panel
announced as the indications they saw.  My thoughts in 1959 and
today.

>>I must suggest that you get some better sources than you quote here.

>Although Jenny is hardly a world authority on 'Foo Fighters', I trust
>you agree that her reference to Michael Bentine's experiences were
>relevant.

Certainly, but Wilkins, Time-Life, and Nazi saucer tails are not
of the best quality.

>It also wasn't accidental that I preceded the mention of Jenny's
>comments in her latest book, assuming that these wouldn't be well
>known, with the words, "For information".

>As Jenny included a reference to Schriever and this might have been
>of interest to David, who was "looking into the activities of
>engineers like Miethe, Schriever...", it was as stated, simply for
>information.

>Despite the recognised caution re Wilkins' claims, he does give some
>quite specific details (are none of his 'Foo Fighter' reports
>authentic?) and it was mentioned he referred to the 'American Legion
>Magazine' as being an 'excellent' source, which is apparently correct.

Wilkins basically re-worked Jo Chamberlin's article. Primary
sources would be interviews with the aircrews or official
reports, the secondary source, Jo Chamberlin's article which was
derived from the primary material, and finally with Wilkins we
are already working on a third level sources. Since Chamberlin's
article is of some importance, I have asked permission to
reproduct it in my foo-fighter report.

>The authenticity of the Time-Life photograph also seems unresolved.

No, the authenticity of the Time-Life photograph is not
demonstrated. In fact, it was in dispute by one of Japan's most
reliable UFO investigators, Jun-Ichi Takanashi. Unless someone
can come up with some reliable information it must be considered
dubious....not a good advertisement for Time-Life's research,
but that was not the point, selling slick books with flashy
visuals was.

>It's recognised there are more authoritative sources, however there
>are less authoritative sources who publish to a wide and uninformed
>audience.

Again Gresham's Law works for ufological information.

>Presuming that Ivo, Jean-Luc, Werner [all comments greatly
>appreciated] and yourself have no objections, I will pass on to Jenny
>copies of the source material you respectively recommend and I'm sure
>she will welcome the further insight.

Be my guest. I would be happy if better information about this
period got out to the public. Even at this late date, it is
still possible to interview veterans about these experiences. I
did one last year. Many times these things left a lasting
impression that did not go away over the long years.

I would think that information, referred to by Jones, should be
available with the proper sort of research in the UK official
records. Just don't go looking for under the name "foo-fighter."





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 20

                  Skywatch: New Clues To Marree Man Mystery

From: Skywatch International <jhickman@itlnet.net>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 14:50:05 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 06:27:09 -0400
Subject: Skywatch: New Clues To Marree Man Mystery


-----Original Message-----
From: Skywatch International Inc. <jhickman@itlnet.net>
To: sky open list <skyopen@unix.ltlb.com>
Date: Sunday, July 19, 1998 2:51 PM
Subject: (Skyopen) Fw: New Clues To Mystery (Marree Man)



From: Clifford M Dubery <duberycm@ocean.com.au
To: SkyWatch International <skypost@unix.ltlb.com
Date: Saturday, July 18, 1998 9:14 PM
Subject: New Clues To Mystery (Marree Man)


A Follow Up on the South Australian Huge Drawing in the Dirt By
CRAIG CLARKE 19jul98 The Sunday Mail (Adelaide)

DETECTIVES are closing in on the creators of the mysterious
Marree Man.

Police have confirmed they are following strong clues in the
hunt for whoever etched the 4km-long drawing of an Aboriginal
warrior on to a desert plateau outside Marree, 200km north of
Port Augusta.

As the world spotlight on Marree intensifies:

William Creek Hotel, 200km north-west of Marree, claims they
threw away an anonymous fax six weeks ago describing artwork and
its location.

'We thought it was a joke and threw it out,"said Mr Shane
Anderson, whose family runs the pub.

Heavy Outback rain threatens to erase sections of the Marree Man
before tourists begin flocking to the site.

Rain is expected to again fall across the State's Far North
tomorrow. Speculation continued in Marree yesterday as to who
ploughed the desert portrait, which has angered Aborigines, who
claim it is poking fun at their culture.

The State Government has given the naked man a temporary
reprieve, refusing to bulldoze it from the rough landscape.

Locals believe whoever created the Marree Man - discovered early
last week by a local charter pilot - needed satellite
photographs and a sophisticated global positioning system (GPS)
to map the giant artwork. The creators - who Marree residents
agree wasn't a local - needed a transporter to truck in the
plough and plenty of fuel.

Mrs. Suzy Walsh, who works at Marree's Outback Roadhouse and
General Store, is convinced she would have unwittingly served
the culprits.

"We get locals and people passing through buying several 44
gallon drums of fuel at a time, so we wouldn't have batted an
eyelid,"Mrs. Walsh said.

"I probably served them without realising it."

Mrs. Walsh said the artists gained access to the site in a truck
via a dried up creek bed, before climbing onto the plateau.

They would have used the heavy vehicle traffic from Woomera as
cover. Investigations into the Marree Man are being handled by
detectives in Port Augusta.

Marree police are "fed up" with the world media spotlight on
their tiny three-man Outback station.

Journalists from around the world have inundated the station
with requests for interviews since the story broke.

"We've been getting calls all day and all night and we're fed
up," an unnamed officer said.

He referred all inquiries back to Adelaide police, who confirmed
Port Augusta detectives were getting closer in the search.

Marree identity, Mr Ray Goss, said: "This has put Marree on the
map. We've never had so many journalists here."

"The theory among locals is that it's an eccentric artists who
has carved it - it's too good a job for one of us."

Police last week interviewed Melbourne artist Christopher
Headley, the only man in Australia who creates "land drawings".

Mr Headley, who has been refused permission to work in the area,
said he was incapable of carrying out the work.

Mr Lyall Oldfield, a local businessman and booking agent for
scenic flights, said he hoped the rain would stop soon to allow
tourists to flock to the site.

Notification of the drawing may have been timed to coincide with
the school holidays, which end today.


________________________________________________

From: Hang time55 <wbkjr@juno.com>
To: skypost@unix.ltlb.com <skypost@unix.ltlb.com>
Date: Sunday, July 19, 1998 1:04 PM
Subject: New Clues To Mystery (Marree Man)


REPLY POSTING

Reports coming in. Although there not what I hoped, some of the
reports are beginning to sort what hat may have happened.

I can't believe that Mr Shane Anderson of the William Creek
Hotel, 200km north-west of Marree, had thrown away an anonymous
fax six weeks ago describing artwork and its location. That
doesn't make sense. I would assume that whomever drew this
figure would have come prepared with all the necessary equipment
and materials to do so. Sounds like either a opportunist or a
debunking move.

Like I had posted a day or so previously, Heavy Outback rain
will threaten to erase sections of the Marree Man. Rain is
expected to again fall across the State's Far North tomorrow. So
why go through all the trouble to draw this figure when rain in
the region will surely wash it away? I can't go with the notion
that Aborigines are angry about this figure. Why would they be
angry? Perhaps the Aborigines have something to say about this
figure but it is being rumored that they don't. The Aborigines
are a very ancient people. Their mythology is quite interesting,
with stories including blue reptilian type demons and one
especially strange story of egg shaped thingys that fly? I'll
have to dig that information up.

Again, the story of Mrs. Suzy Walsh, who works at Marree's
Outback Roadhouse and General Store, saying that she is
convinced that she could have served the unwittingly culprits is
a little far fetched in itself. This project obviously relied on
speed and secrecy. Now why would the creators of the figure go
out and either buy fuel or grab a quick bite to eat in an area
where people are? They were there to create the figure and get
out without being detected. It doesn't make sense for these '
persons ' to be roaming around town in plain view of the public.
Mrs. Walsh also said the artists gained access to the site in a
truck via a dried up creek bed, before climbing onto the
plateau? How does she know this? Could it be that the
investigators didn't find any tracks or markings on how
equipment was transported up to the plateau? How did equipment
get up there then, did it fly?

I also find it a little odd that detectives in Port Augusta are
even investigating the figure. This to me, at the most, is a
minor trespassing charge. But I am interested in the Marree
polices remarks of being "fed up"with the world media spotlight
on their tiny three-man Outback station. Maybe the figure is
geting more worldwide attention then ' some ' would like?
After all, the area in which this figure is located in some 400
miles southeast of Pine Gap, the alledged military underground
base that, in my opinion, is one of the main facilities for
testing advanced aircraft technolgy. Mr Ray Goss, said: "This
has put Marree on the map."We've never had so many journalists
here. Perhaps the stories of the locals being fed-up with all
the attention of journalists in the area is really a concern of
some others who feel that too many cameras and too many people
are in a general area where green fireballs, UFOs and noises
such as explosions in the skies have been reported?

What bothers me about this is that officials have already began
to dig up a person by the name Christopher Headley, a artist
from Melbourne who is said to be the only man in Australia who
creates "land drawings". Mr Headley, said he was incapable of
carrying out this work. This reminds me of the crop circle
storys coming out of England where they had found 2 men who said
that they were responsible for all if not most of the crop
circles springing up all around the english countrysides. The
video, "Mysteries of the Crop Circles" was a all out attempt
to debunk crop circles as being everything but unknown in
origin. I believe that that the same disinformationism may be
forming here.

Lastly, I find it strange that State Government has given the
naked man a temporary reprieve, refusing to bulldoze it from the
rough landscape. Why would they want to bulldoze it if rains
that are predictedin the area within the next few days may wash
it all away anyways? Is it because the ' nakedness ' of the
figure is immoral or is the reason possibly that they would like
to literally "cover up "this thing, erasing its very
existence and its evidence from public view? This makes me
wonder now if this figure wasn't plowed, but rather burned into
the ground. To cover over it would simply hide it and not
dispose of it. Perhaps investigations into the figure has more
to do with the techique by whichh it was created rather then
like I assumed, a simply trespassing offense.



Hangtime55
Canoga Park, Ca
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"... Learning is the remembering of a wisdom that the
soul enjoyed prior to its incarnation..."     Plato
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chris Carter, are you updating your scripts?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
532 days until THE NEW MILLENNIUM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 20

               Ancient Indian Astronomers Knew Speed Of Light?

From: Moderator, UFO UpDates
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 06:38:58 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 06:38:58 -0400
Subject: Ancient Indian Astronomers Knew Speed Of Light?


The UFOMind Mailing List at:
http://www.ufomind.com/misc/1998/jul/d18-001.shtml


From: Glenn Campbell <campbell@ufomind.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 00:15:27 -0800


This evening (July 17) I was listening to the BBC World Service
on shortwave radio -- a highly regarded source of news.  I was
listening to a science news program; I don't recall its name.

A segment of the program said that Vedic astronomers in 14th
Century India had accurately predicted both the speed of light
and the age of the universe.

I remember only the general outline of the claims...

A modern Indian scholar, while researching ancient Vedic texts,
came across a hymn to the sun which specified the speed at which
the sun's light travels to the earth.  When the ancient
measurement system was translated into modern units, it came to
some 300,000 km/second, which is the figure we know today.
Related texts seem to estimate the age of the universe -- about
8 billion years.

The question is, how would they have known this figure?

The program was vague about how the ancient astronomers might
have measured this.  However, the possibility of random
coincidence was ruled out.

The program said that Western science began to measure the speed
of light in the 17th century and didn't have an accurate figure
until the 19th century.

The program assigned no great significance to the finding; it
was presented simply as a scientific oddity. Certainly no
extraterrestrial theory was offered.

I tried a web search for more info about this specific claim but
haven't found anything yet - however, I did create a web page
for Vedic astrology at:

www.ufomind.com/para/spirit/astrology/vedic/






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   Jul > Jul 20

                 Scientists To Map Out Astrobiology Strategy

From: Stig Agermose <wanderer@post8.tele.dk>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 05:34:31 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 05:34:31 -0400
Subject: Scientists To Map Out Astrobiology Strategy

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 03:20:23 +0200

>From the newsgroup "sci.space.news". URL:

news:16JUL199817334390@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov


Stig


*******


Leading Scientists Meet To Map Out Astrobiology
Strategy


From: baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: 16 Jul 1998 17:33 UT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Newsgroups: sci.space.news=A0


Donald Savage
Headquarters, Washington, DC
July 16, 1998
(Phone:  202/358-1727)

Kathy Burton
Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
(Phone:  650/604-1731)

NOTE TO EDITORS:  N98-46


LEADING SCIENTISTS MEET TO MAP OUT ASTROBIOLOGY
STRATEGY


Leading scientists from around the world will meet
next week in a critical first step in planning
NASA's emerging astrobiology program. In a three-day
"roadmapping" session, participants will discuss
development of a five-year strategic plan for
astrobiology research, next-generation missions and
technology requirements.

The goal of the workshop is to provide direction and
set the tone for astrobiology research and its
impact on NASA's missions, both in the near term and
looking ahead to the year 2020. Astrobiology is the
search for the origin, evolution and destiny of life
in the universe. It involves research to gain
understanding of the origins of life in the
universe, the formation and evolution of habitable
worlds, life's evolution and the biogeochemical
cycles in the Earth's oceans and atmosphere, and the
potential for biological evolution beyond an
organism's planet of origin.

The roadmap team will define top-level mission and
technology requirements to achieve astrobiology
science goals and map these requirements onto NASA's
future missions and technology development programs.
Topics for discussion include life's molecular
roots, the cosmic context for life, the origin of
terrestrial life and the prospects for life beyond
the planet of origin.

The three-day planning workshop will be held July
20-22, 1998, at NASA's Ames Research Center, Moffett
Field, CA. Media representatives are invited to
attend the workshop's opening sessions, which run
from 8:30 a.m. until approximately 1:00 p.m. PDT on
July 20 in the Moffett Training and Conference
Center (Building 3). Contact the Ames Public Affairs
Office at 650/604-1731 for media access information.

"Future Shock" author Alvin Toffler will lead a
dialogue about the "fourth wave" and astrobiology.
Other speakers will include Michael Meyer,
astrobiology discipline scientist; Henry McDonald,
Ames center director; David Morrison, Ames director
of space; and Scott Hubbard, interim manager of the
NASA Astrobiology Institute based at Ames.

Workshop attendees will include top
multidisciplinary researchers from around the
nation, including Nobel laureates Dr. Walter Gilbert
of Harvard University and Dr. Stanley N. Cohen of
the Stanford University School of Medicine. Other
attendees will include National Academy of Science
members and representatives from leading research
institutions and universities. Represented
disciplines will range from astronomy and
astrophysics, to biology, chemistry and planetary
geology. Scientists in all fields are working toward
the common goal of discovering the role of life in
the universe.

Members of NASA's recently formed virtual
Astrobiology Institute will participate in this
exercise. This highly interdisciplinary group comes
from 11 selected institutions which include: Arizona
State University; Carnegie Institution; Harvard
University; Pennsylvania State University; Scripps
Research Institute; the University of Colorado; the
University of California, Los Angeles; Woods Hole
Marine Biological Laboratory; Ames; and NASA's
Johnson Space Center, Houston, TX, and Jet
Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA.

Information about astrobiology at Ames can be found
on the world wide web at:

http://astrobiology.arc.nasa.gov/

-end-








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   Jul > Jul 20

                               Meier Pictures

From: Andy Dene - A.U.R.A. <aura@telekabel2.nl>
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:34:42 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 07:13:03 -0400
Subject: Meier Pictures

[Apologies to Andy for the delay in posting this --ebk]

Hi People,

As promised some time ago, here's an update on the Billy Meier-case.
First of all I'd like to mention the fact that, even though he offered
to do lend a hand he never mailed me back.
A disappointing experience...

Anyway, after he and Luc Buergin came with new revelations in the Meier
case, I decided to call the Semjase Silver Star Center to see what Meier
or FiGU (as if there was a difference...) had to say about these
accusations. Here's a piece of that conversation as it took place:

A.D.:   Meier claims the Men in Black forged his photographs in
        order to discredit him, but what proof comes along to
        support this wild claims?

SSSC:   We have the contact-notes and the fact Ptaah (who only
        'appears' to Meier!) told us (sic) so!

A.D.:   So Meier NEVER created UFO-pictures himself? He has not
        now nor ever hoaxed UFO-pictures?

SSSC:   No. Not to our knowledge...No never.

A.D.:   What about the scale-models seen at the SSSC by many?"

SSSC:   Hold on... (and after a quick discussion amongst the
        FiGU-memebers:)  ...well, we don't know about that...
        There are no models used to my knowledge, never. Although
        people will never believe.."

A.D.:   What about the fact that Billy is seen purchasing helium
        before? I think that's a rather suspicious activity in
        his case...

SSSC:   Oh...you're talking about that...er..I mean...well,
        Billy admits to that, and so do we...see, we heard a lot
        about how Meier faked with helium, so we decided one day
        that we would try to make one ourselves.

The rest not worth mentioning because it was a mixture of
aggressive bashing of Korff or anyone that doesn't believe
Meier's ludicrous claims on the one hand and trying to convince
me of their "Mission". "The prophet of the New Age" as his
followers call Meier is actually planning to thank Korff and
Buergin for the free publicity, said the spokesman of the SSSC.

Have you noticed that in the conversation above there is a HUGE
contradiction: First there was claimed Meier NEVER made any fake
pictures him self. Then two questions later they practically
ADMIT he very well faked pictures!

This behaviour can be interpreted as sectarian, cult-like
behaviour only! Also we did a new analysis of a couple of
Meier-pics ALSO found on their website.(Just so the good ol'
MiB-excuse won't work this time ;-)) What we obviously noted was
the following:

Picture 200: Made taken March 8, 1976

After we enhanced the image we noted that the pixels in the
background were defiantly different from those on the
craft...rather sloppy work I'd say...but after we decided to
erase the back-ground we ALSO noticed a white edge, clearly a
result of "cut and paste"!

and:

Picture 829: Made on march 26, 1981

Actually we didn't even really have to 'analyse' that pic. Just
a good look at it is enough to make you roll on the floor.
I'm not talking about the shape which I think would
hardly make it over the Alps, let alone out of our atmosphere.
No, but if you look at the upper side of the 'UFO' you can see
it's somewhat blurry. Strange thing is though, that the trees
which are supposed to be even FURTHER away are MUCH more IN
FOCUS.

And if that all isn't enough, Meier still trying to manipulate
the minds of his somewhat naive  followers.

This time a MIB tried to shoot him from close range. To prove
this Meier came up with a .22 bullet stuck in a tree. Of course
Meier had no other witnesses of this "attack". In my opinion
those MIB in question must've been terrible rookies or drunk, if
they weren't capable of hitting him at an 8 meter distance!

Btw: Does anybody know the caliber of the guns the Swiss Army
has? Bet ya it's .22!

I guess it's useless wasting anymore time on Meier and his cult,
although I feel sorry for his followers who need to believe in
something...


With Kind Regards,



Andy Denne
(A.U.R.A.)





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   Jul > Jul 20

             Re: Roswell 'Flowered Tape' Mentioned At The Get-Go

From: Stanton T. Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 08:30:35 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 07:44:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Roswell 'Flowered Tape' Mentioned At The Get-Go


> From: Stig Agermose <wanderer@post8.tele.dk>
> Subject: Roswell: Flowered Tape Mentioned At The Get-Go
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 01:49:53 +0200

> Received from Larry Clark via New York MUFON's mailing list

> Stig

> ----------------------------------------

> Date: 19 Jul 1998 02:02:12 -0000
> Return-Path: <NYMUFON-return-@listbot.com>
> From: "Larry Clark" <lclark@ibm.net>

> <snip>

> Subject: Mum's the word
> Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 17:56:27 -0400

> NY Mutual UFO Network Postings - http://www.nymufon.org

> What's new on the state site:

> 1) Regarding Roswell in the Schenectady Union Star / 1947:
>    [July 9, 1947]

> July 9: Army, Navy Launch Campaign to Halt 'Flying Disc' Rumors
> Mentions aftermath of Roswell reports and statements by Haught &
> Ramey. Also mentioned: "Those who saw the object said it had a
> flowered paper tape around it bearing the initials 'D.P.'.

<snip>

The flowered tape and bundles of sticks etc. stuff did indeed
appear on July nine, in a story that went all over, AFTER Brazel
had been indoctrinated with a new story mentioning June 14 ...
even though the earlier story had said found last week.

Probably a record for a cover story working for 51 years!!

STF






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                                 Re: The Rod

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 06:56:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 07:33:08 -0400
Subject: Re: The Rod


>Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 17:08:11 -0700
>From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Rod

>> Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:17:27 -0700 (PDT)
>> To: updates@globalserve.net
>> From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>> Subject: The Rod

>> Is there an expert on "rods" on this list?

><snip>

>You can compare your sighting with rod photographs on:

>http://www.roswellrods.com/

>Joe and his wife are the best experts on the phenomenon and
>respond to any email sent from the web site.

>Also Jim Peters knows a bit about rods.  You can reach him at:

>James_Peters@compuserve.com

>I must admit that I was quite skeptical about these high speed
>thingies; but, the information on the web page has forced me to
>keep an open mind about it.

>Terry


Some time ago I challenged Jose to "put up or shut up" on this
subject by sending me his tape for study.  Nothing happened, so
I just sort of forgot about it.

I just wanted to say that to his credit Jose did send me the tape
last week.  I have not had time to study it yet, but will do so.

Bob







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   Jul > Jul 20

                      UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 29

From: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 06:53:30 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 07:31:38 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 29


     UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 3, Number 29
June 19, 1998
Editor: Joseph Trainor

CROP CIRCLES SHOW UP
IN USA AND UK

     During the past month, an incredible number of
crop circles have appeared in the USA and the
United Kingdom.
     On Friday, June 19, 1998, a crop circle measuring
180 feet (55 meters) in diameter appeared in a wheat
field in Eltopia, Washington (population 200), a small
town about 225 miles (360 kilometers) east of Seattle.
     According to cerealogist Ilyes, the circle was
discovered by farmer Craig Schaefer, who discovered it
"in a field of Steven's wheat--a 'beaded' variety of winter
wheat" which Schaefer planted in October 1997.
     Ilyes reported "an interesting color variation within
the circle, as half of the circle was still green, half about
golden ripe."  The farmer reportedly told her "that his
eye was caught by the circles in the crop, by the
precise, well-defined circumference of the circle, and
the way the wheat seemed deliberately organized."
(Many thanks to Ilyes for this news story.)
     Also in June, a crop circle shaped like a dumbbell
was reported in Waverly, Nebraska (population 1,869),
a town on Highway 6 approximately 11 miles
(18 kilometers) northeast of Lincoln, the state capital.
Waverly was the site of a crop circle in 1997.
     On Friday, July 10, 1998, a giant swastika was
found in a cornfield in Washington Township, New
Jersey (population 8,000), located 5 miles (8 kilometers)
southeast of Princeton.
     According to the New York Post, "The swastika is
about 100 yards by 100 yards and visible from the air."
Washington Township mayor Glen Beebe "said the
symbol appeared to have been cut in the field about
three weeks ago, judging from the height of corn
regrowth."
     "The Mercer County prosecutor is investigating the
incident as a hate crime.  Beebe quoted police as
saying they had no suspects."
     "Jewish leaders expressed horror yesterday
(June 12, 1998) at (the) football-field sized swastika...
'I'm horrified by this.  I can't believe someone in our
community could do this,' Yvette Kovsky, president
of the 650-family Congregation Beth Chaim in
(nearby) West Windsor, said."  (See the New York
Post for July 13, 1998, "Jews appalled by giant
swastika in N.J. cornfield.")
     Meanwhile, in the United Kingdom, a record number
of crop circles have appeared this summer, with 30 of
them in Avebury alone.  Prominent Avebury crop circles
include those at Beckhampton, Bishops Cannings,
Avebury Trusloe and West Kennet.
     According to cerealogist Paul Vigay, crop circles
have appeared elsewhere in the UK, in Dorset, Wiltshire,
Hampshire, North Somerset, Staffordshire,
Leicestershire, and at Shepton Mallet near Glastonbury.
     On Thursday, July 9, 1998, at 7 a.m., a crop circle
appeared in Alton Barnes, Wiltshire, UK.  According to
cerealogist Colin Andrews, the formation was "a Kock
Fractal 'Snowflake' pattern, like two others seen nearby
during 1997.  This one has over 140 small circles
surrounding the snowflake and is 300 feet across."
     The "snowflake" appeared in East Field in Alton
Barnes, at the foot of a prehistoric burial tumulus
known locally as Adam's Grave.  (Many thanks to
Colin Andrews and Eroll Bruce-Knapp for this news
story.)
     On Monday, July 9, 1998, farmer Brian Roble was
running a combine machine through an 18-acre wheat
field in Latty, Ohio (population 200), a small town on
Route 613 near the Indiana state line when he
sighted a crop circle.
     Roble "said, 'I had seen it from a distance and hadn't
known what it was.  When I got closer, I could see it
was a crop circle.  My eight-year-old daughter has been
looking for crop circles since she and her mom went to
see the one at Arend's (in 1996--J.T.).  I never thought
I'd find one.'"
     Roble telephoned the field's owner, Georgia Price,
and "she said her family had farmed that field for 45 years
and it had never before produced such a crop."
     "Sheriff Dave Harrow said his office received a report
of crop vandalism at 6:14 p.m. on July 6.  He denied the
existence of a crop circle in the county, although he said
the vandalism was circular in shape.  He said his office
has no suspects and because the landowner did not want
to press charges, the case is closed."
     "Roble said the sheriff came out July 6, compared the
formation with those in a book, declared it a hoax and
recommended they plow the compression under."
     On Sunday, July 12, 1998, cerealogists Roger Sugden
and Jeffrey Wilson investigated the scene.  The men
"took measurements, drew a field diagram, checked
electromagnetic readings and collected wheat and soil
samples."  (See the Ohio newspaper Paulding County
Progress for July 15, 1998, "Crop circle is discovered
in county."  Many thanks to Kenneth Young of Tri-States
Advocates for Scientific Knowledge, T.A.S.K., for
forwarding the newspaper article.)

UFOs HOVER OVER MOUNTAIN
CITIES IN UMBRIA, ITALY

     On Monday, July 13, 1998, at 11 p.m., an "unidentified
craft" flew over the small city of Gualda Tadino in
northeastern Umbria province, Italy.  The UFO "circled the
city at high velocity," and then hovered for about two
minutes before flying away to the north.  The UFO "flew
below the clouds" and had "a great luminosity."
     Minutes later, the UFO flew over the nearby city of
Gubbio, in the Appenine Mountains.  Witnesses described
the UFO as "resembling a glowing soccer ball" and said
"it flew from the north-northeast to the north-northwest,"
and, after aerobatic maneuvers lasting "about five minutes,
and left in a northerly direction.  The phenomenon was
seen by four witnesses in one location, and another
seven people confirmed this sighting."
     Gubbio and Gualda Tadino are east of Perugia,
located about 150 kilometers (90 miles) north of Rome.
(Grazie a Squadra Film Spaziale d'Italia per questo
rapporto.)

LUMINOUS UFO FLIES OVER
CREWE IN THE UK

     On Saturday, July 11, 1998, at 12:30 a.m.,
Paul R., age 27, and his mother, Patricia R., age 54,
were out walking their dog in a west-southwesterly
direction along Remer Street in Crewe, Cheshire, UK
when a sudden bright flash captured Paul's gaze.
     The incident took place just two hours after
the light phenomenon over Belfast, Northern Ireland.
     "My eyes had already been directed skyward by
seeing something flare up," Paul reported, "I figured it
was probably the sun reflecting off some solar panel
or other.  About a minute later, I saw this flickering
fuzzy blob dash across the sky.  The object was about
the size of a two-pence piece (held at arm's length)."
     "After noticing it flare up, I pointed it out to my
mother, and we watched it for about 15 to 20 seconds
until it faded out."  The UFO "appeared to be at about
50 degrees above the horizon" and "was traveling in the
same flight path as the first, south to north."
     "I only saw it for five to seven seconds before it
disappeared out of view behind the houses."
     Crewe, Cheshire is located about 130 miles
(208 kilometers) northwest of London.  (Email
Interview)

FAST UFO FLYBY OVER
LELYSTAD, NETHERLANDS

     On Tuesday, July 7, 1998, a film crew shooting
a TV movie on the dikes at Blocq van Kuffeler in
Oostelijk Flevoland, Netherlands accidentally shot
footage of a UFO speeding overhead.
     According to Dutch ufologist Keet Veling, "At the
upper white corner of the frame, a white dot appears.
It races through the film at great speed.  The dot
disappears behind (actor) Kuno's head.  You expect
the dot to appear over on the left of the frame but
it does not."
     The UFO was flying from Almene to Lelystad,
a city 60 kilometers (36 miles) northeast of
Amsterdam.  (Many thanks to Keet Veling for this
news story.)

TRIANGULAR UFO SPOTTED
IN SELKIRK, MANITOBA

     On Tuesday, July 14, 1998, at 4 a.m., Arthur P.
was looking north from his home in Selkirk, Manitoba,
Canada, when he spotted three strange bluish-white
lights in the sky.
     "What I saw was a (triangular) shape in bluish-
white lights.  It came down across the street from my
house and made no sound.  Of course, my heart was
beating too loudly for me to hear it.  Then it went
straight back up and was gone."
     Arthur described the configuration of lights as
looking like this:
                              O
                            O  O

     "I observed the UFO for four minutes," he added,
"It was very, very slow in descent.  Very slow as well
as it ascended.  I did not hear any sound as being
associated with the UFO."
     Asked if he observed any structural details,
Arthur responded, "No, the light was too bright, and
frankly I was too frightened."  He added that there
was definitely a luminous glow around the lights.
     Selkirk is on Manitoba Provincial Highway 9
approximately 15 miles (24 kilometers) north of
Winnipeg.  (Email Interview)

MYSTERIOUS CRASH PROBED
IN NORTHERN TEXAS

     On Saturday, July 11, 1998, at 11:20 p.m., Texas
ufologist Duff B. and his wife "were driving into the
Fort Worth, Tex. area.  We were about eight to ten
miles west of Azle (population 8,868) and saw a
bright falling object.  My wife noted a blue and green
'light' below the object as it was falling.  I watched
it and was concentrating wholly on the large 'fireball'
effect surrounding the object."
     Since this "was nothing like we had ever seen
before," Duff and his wife drove into Azle, hoping for
a better look.  They soon found "the road blocked at
an underpass" and a large number of fire engines
and emergency vehicles.  Rolling down the window,
Duff asked an officer what was going on.
     "Is this fire related to the flash in the sky a
while ago?" he asked.
     "No," the officer said bluntly.
     "Is this a wreck?" Duff asked.
      After "pausing a few seconds, 'Yes,' he said."
     "We went down the service road and tried to see
across the median to see what all the commotion was
about," Duff reported, "I saw a large number of fire
trucks, care ambulances and a wrecker.  However,
what I didn't see was any damaged vehicle.  In fact,
there was nothing on the road but emergency
personnel and vehicles."
     The investigation is continuing.  Azle is on Texas
Highway 199 about 10 miles (16 kilometers) northwest
of Fort Worth.  (Many thanks to Steve Wilson Sr.
for this news story.)

UFOs APPEAR TWICE IN
RURAL MICHIGAN

     On Friday, July 3, 1998, at 3 p.m., a 14-year-old
boy was practicing at the outdoor amphitheatre
at Blue Lake Fine Arts Music Camp in rural
Twin Lake, Michigan (population 1,328), about
200 miles (320 kilometers) west of Detroit, when
he spotted a UFO in the sky.
     The witness was rehearsing with other members
of the orchestra when "he looked up" and "saw a
strange object that resembled 'a metal gray flashlight
(torch in UK) with a nose bigger than the back end.'
He could see no windows or lights on it."
     "It was flying a 'straight horizontal line' west
towards Lake Michigan.  The object was at a high
altitude 'as high as a plane can go,' and at arm's
length it was as big as his index finger."
     "He observed it for approximately ten seconds
before 'it flew into a very large cloud that took up a
lot of the sky.'  When asked if he pointed out the
object to any of the others in the orchestra, he
replied, 'No, because the teacher would be mad
at me disturbing the rehearsal.'"
(Editor's Comment: An experience like this gives
a whole new meaning to the expression music of
the spheres.)
     A week later, on Friday, July 10, 1998, at 3:49 p.m.,
"a woman driving north on US (Highway) 127 near Leslie,
Michigan (population 1,872)" when he spotted "the
glint of a silvery object" in the sky.
     "She described the object as the size of a Cessna-
type aircraft, but 'perfectly round like a steel BB'"
pellet.
     "She further noted 'a shiny band around the middle'
of the object."
     ""The object seemed to 'slide up against the edge
of the cumulous cloud, rolled down so that the top
(half) reflected the shine, then rolled up so that the
bottom half reflected the shine'  She noticed that the
'shiny band' stayed at the middle of the object, which
enabled her to determine" which hemisphere reflected
the shine.
    "She watched then as the object 'slid/flew into the
edge' of the cloud, from which it did not return."
     Leslie is located 29 miles (46 kilometers) south
of Lansing, the state capital.  (Many thanks to
Marilyn Ruben of Alien Abductions Experience and
Research and Jeffrey S. Westover of Michigan
MUFON for these news stories.)

AMATEUR ASTRONOMER
SPIES A UFO SOUTH OF
PITTSBURGH

     On Sunday night, July 12, 1998, an amateur
astronomer doing some backyard observations
spotted a UFO over Sutersville, Pennsylvania
(population 755), located 20 miles (32 kilometers)
south of Pittsburgh.
     The witness, "who owns a telescope and is
familiar with the planets," stated he was "watching
some aircraft when I noticed a bright, star-like source
of light approximately west-southwest" of his location
"in the generally clear sky."
     The witness went indoors to fetch his telescope.
Soon he had it in focus and "saw what appeared to be
a solid white globe, but the center of it appeared to
be more transparent.  The globe itself appeared
stationary while under observation.  Just above the
globe was another smaller sphere that was making a
continuous back-and-forth motion, in a somewhat
circular fashion over it."
     According to the witness, the smaller sphere
"moved from a 10 o'clock position to a 2 o'clock
position (above the white globe) and then would
reverse the motion.  This continued for over two
minutes."  Then both UFOs departed.  (Many
thanks to Pennsylvania ufologist Stan Gordon
for this news story.)

MAGAZINE HAS INTRIGUING
PHOTOS FROM THE MARS
GLOBAL SURVEYOR

     The August 1998 issue of Sky & Telescope
has a very interesting selection of photos from the
Mars Global Surveyor, as part of a great article
by Samantha Parker entitled "The Triumphant
Turnaround of Mars Global Surveyor."
     After looking at the photos with a trusty
magnifying glass, and using a mirror set at 90
degrees for a 3-D effect, your editor found some
intriguing features that I'd like to pass on to
UFO Roundup readers.
     (1) Niagara Falls of Mars - Note the three
horseshoe-shaped "bites" out of the plain above
Ophir Casma.  The semi-circular recession, the
outwash debris in the chasm, and the dendritic
dried-up riverbeds leading to the edge suggest
that a large waterfall, similar to the USA's Niagara
Falls or Angel Falls io Venezuela, was present
in the planet's distant past.  Check the 2 o'clock
position in the upper left photo on page 44.
     (2) Lake Huron of Mars - The flat plain with the
orderly rows of sand dunes in Hebes Chasma is
actually a dry lakebed that rivals present-day Lake
Huron in size.  Note the wave-cut headlands and
promontories on the left shore.  There's also evidence
of shore terracing in the embayments of the lower
center photo on page 46.
     (3) Twin Pyramids - The region called Medusa
Fossae is full of surprises.  Check out the upper left
photo on page 45.  At a 5 o'clock position relative to
the recent impact crater at the top of the photo are
two pyramid-shaped features.  Nearby are another
10 smaller circular hills or mounds.
     (4) Space Baby - Medusa Fossae has an
interesting landform.  Check out the upper left
corner of the photo on page 45, at an 8 o'clock
position relative to the large crater with the central
peak.  From space, the mountain resembles a
human baby sucking the thumb of his right hand.
It reminded me of the final scene of the movie
2001: A Space Odyssey.  (Don't tell me there are
Stanley Kubrick fans on Mars--J.T.)

NASA RELEASES GALILEO
PHOTOS OF GANYMEDE

     "Jupiter's moon Ganymede appears to have
had an ocean fed by volcanoes that spewed
lava-like water."
     "Dramatic new photos from NASA's Galileo
probe, taken in June 1996 and June 1997 and
released Wednesday (June 15, 1998), do not
reveal any signs of life.  But it is possible that
life could have existed in Ganymede's watery
depths billions of years ago."
     "'The ingredients for life are all there,' says
James Head, a Brown University planetary
scientist and Galileo team member.  'It had the
water, it had the heat and it has organic material
coming in from outer space in the form of comets.'"
     The Galileo photos "show parallel rows of
linear mountainlike ranges that stretch for hundreds
of miles, and a valley system of volcanoes that
replenished the ocean with water early in Ganymede's
history."
     "The pictures also reveal a chain of craters on
Ganymede that probably were caused by impacts
from a broken comet similar to the Shoemaker-Levy
comet that smashed into Jupiter in 1994."
     "Earlier data from Galileo found combinations of
oxygen, carbon, sulfur, hydrogen and nitrogen trapped
in Ganymede's crust."
     "Galileo's images also show unusual pedestal-like
formations, icy volcanic flows, dark rings from impacts
and evidence of 'moon-quakes.'"
     "Ganymede is thought to have formed about 4.5
billion years ago.  It is the largest moon in the solar
system, about the size of Mercury or a third the
size of Earth."
     "It is the only moon with a magnetic field.
It has a metallic core and a thin hydrogen atmosphere."
     "Ganymede lies 665,000 miles (1,060,000 kilometers)
from Jupiter--more than twice as far as the Moon is from
Earth."
     "The images are the last closeups scientists are
expecting from Ganymede.  The Galileo spacecraft,
which has spent two-and-a-half years orbiting Jupiter
and its four largest moons, wrapped up its primary
mission last December (1997).  Its extended mission
will continue through December 1999 and includes
either flybys of Europa, four flybys of Callisto and
one or two of Io."
    "'This is a tantalizing last glimpse at Ganymede
from Galileo,' Head says.  'We've learned a lot and it's
been amazing.  In the future, we'll need to get even
closer and maybe even send a spacecraft to land
there to really see what it's like."  (See USA Today
for July 16, 1998, "Photos suggest life could have
existed on Jupiter's moon," by Paul Hoversten.)

from the UFO Files...

1947: DAYLIGHT DISCS SWEEP
          NORMAN, OKLAHOMA

     One of the best-documented multiple repeated
sightings of UFOs during the Flap of 1947 occurred
in Norman, Oklahoma, located about 15 miles
(24 kilometers) south of Oklahoma City.
     W.H. Carson, who was dean of engineering at
the University of Oklahoma from 1937 to 1962, was
the first to see the flying discs.
     "The strange objects were reported being seen
flying over Norman about 6 p.m. on July 6 (1947).
Carson said he was resting in a hammock back of
his home at 943 Chautauqua Avenue when he saw
a silver object at an estimated height of 15,000 to
20,000 feet."
     "When his wife Emma joined him, Carson
mentioned the unusual object.  About that time, two
more appeared and were witnessed by Mrs. Carson
and the neighbors."
     "'I don't know what they were, but we saw them,'
Carson told The Transcript."
     "Carson, who died in 1969, said the objects were
traveling from east to west into the setting sun."
     "Another story that appeared in the July 7 (1947)
edition of The Transcript described 'a big noise'
heard by a large number of Normanites the same
evening as Carson's sighting."
     "Police made an extensive check of the west and
southwestern parts of town after the sound, which
shook walls and made windows tremble."
     "In another local incident, Mrs. Dewey Clawson
of 321 North Flood Avenue reported seeing a falling
object that bore no resemblance to a falling star
just before 'good dark' on July 7, according to the
July 9, 1947 edition of The Transcript."
     "Mrs. Clawson said she was sitting on her
back porch when she noticed the object falling from
the sky.  It had the appearance of being approximately
6 to 8 inches in diameter and appeared to disintegrate
as it fell earthward, she said."
     "Mrs. Clawson said her son, Stuart, saw a
similar object on July 5.  He initially believed it was
a firefly but later realized it was too large."  (See the
Norman, Okla. Transcript for July 9, 1997, "Norman
had its own UFOs 50 years ago."  See also back
issues of the Transcript for July 7, July 8 and July 9,
1947.  Many thanks to Lou Farish of UFO
NEWSCLIPPING SERVICE for this story.)

FUN UFO WEBSITES:
     For more on the crop circle in Eltopia, Wash.,
log in at http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/
inter98/eltopia-pasco98.html
     The one in Waverly, Neb. can be found at
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/inter98/
waverly98.html
     For more on the Lelystad UFO image, log in
at http://www.captainvideo.nl/patrick/index-e.html
     Enhance your summer UFO reading with a visit
to our parent site, UFO INFO.  We're at this URL:
http://ufoinfo.com.
     Back issues of UFO Roundup are available
for reading and downloading at our webpage at
http://ufoinfo.com/roundup

     This week marks the 32nd anniversary of the
flight of the Gemini 10.  On July 21, 1966, astronauts
John Young and Michael Collins flew the black-and-
white Gemini 10 space capsule through two simulated
docking missions with orbiting space targets.  On
this mission, Collins performed two spacewalks,
also known as extravehicular activities (EVAs).
     Three years after Gemini 10, Collins piloted the
Apollo 11 command module in orbit around the
Moon as Neil Armstrong and Edwin "Buzz" Aldrin
landed on the lunar surface.

     We'll be back next week with more saucer news
from "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup."
See you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1998 by Masinagan
Productions, all rights reserved.  Readers may post
news items from UFO Roundup on their websites or
in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter
and its editor by name and list the date of issue in
which the item first appeared.







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 20

                             Re: Meier Pictures

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 08:58:15 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:41:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Meier Pictures

>Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:34:42 +0200
>From: Andy Dene - A.U.R.A. <aura@telekabel2.nl>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Meier-Pictures.

<snip>

>Btw: Does anybody know the caliber of the guns the Swiss Army
>has? Bet ya it's .22!

I don't know about the Swiss Army, but military weapons are
usually of a larger caliber than that.  However, the .22 is
usually used by trained marksmen (which would certainly include
trained "Snipers").

However, I would never suggest that this fact might lend credence
to Meier's claim.

>I guess it's useless wasting anymore time on Meier and his cult,
>although I feel sorry for his followers who need to believe in
>something...

Agreed!

Steve






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   Jul > Jul 20

                      Re: Lazar Critique By A Physicist

From: Keith Woodard <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 07:47:43 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 11:56:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Lazar Critique By A Physicist


> From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Lazar Critique By A Physicist
> Date: Friday, July 17, 1998 8:00 PM

> From: Keith Woodard <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
> To: "UFO Updates" <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Lazar critique by a physicist
> Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 14:58:19 -0700

<snip>

I have been advised by Dr. Morgan that his critique of Lazar may
not remain much longer at the William and Mary website.  However,
it has apparently found a permanent home on Tom Mahood's site,
Bluefire.

Anyone interested in Lazar should in any case be familiar with
the eye-opening Bluefire material.  The URL is:

http://www.serve.com/mahood/bluefire.htm

And, of course,  the UFOmind Lazar link page at:

http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/l/lazar/

is the other base camp for exploration of the tangled skein
enveloping the figure of Bob Lazar.

Kind regards,

Keith







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   Jul > Jul 20

                             Re: Meier Pictures

From: Sean Liddle - Quinte-Eco <ecocon@intranet.ca>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 11:06:15 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 11:59:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Meier Pictures

>Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:34:42 +0200
>From: Andy Dene - A.U.R.A. <aura@telekabel2.nl>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Meier-Pictures

<snip>

>>Btw: Does anybody know the caliber of the guns the Swiss Army
>>has? Bet ya it's .22!

>I don't know about the Swiss Army, but military weapons are
>usually of a larger caliber than that.  However, the .22 is
>usually used by trained marksmen (which would certainly include
>trained "Snipers").

Actually, Canada, the United States and Many other countries use .223
caliber weapons, NOT .22  Its almost the same diameter bullet as your
standard groundhog killing kid gun, but has a much longer shell, with about
5 times the amount of powder.  (BTW for interest, calibre is measured in
decimals of an inch so a 22 is 0.22 of an inch.  which is approx. eqivalent
to 5.56 mm.  Generally outside of the States, metric is used.)

Sean Liddle
QAPRA
ex-infantry wog

Quinte-Eco Consultants Inc.
P.O. Box 400
R.R. #7 Belleville, Ontario
Canada
K8N 4Z7





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                      Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS

From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:26:34 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:03:07 -0400
Subject: Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS

>From: Stanton T. Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
>Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 13:40:12 -0300
>Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 16:54:48 -0400
>Subject: Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS


>> From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk>
>> To: updates@globalserve.net
>> Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 08:29:29 +0200
>> Subject: The Affidavit for Col. Philip Corso (ret.)

Stan (see below):

>> >From CAUS. Go to

>> http://www.caus.org/FOIA/CorsoAffidavit.htm

>> Links are preceded by asterisks.

>> Stig

>> *******

>> Peter A. Gersten, Esq.
>> Attorney for Plaintiff
>> Arizona Bar #016925
>> Sedona, Arizona 86351

>> UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
>> THE DISTRICT OF ARIZONA

>> CITIZENS AGAINST UFO SECRECY, INC.
>> 7349 Via Paseo Del Sur #515-194
>> Scottsdale, Arizona 85258
>> (602) 818-8248
>> Plaintiff,

>> v.

>> DEPARTMENT OF ARMY

>> Defendant,
>> )
>> )
>> )         CIV98-0538PHXROS
>> )
>> )
>> )          AFFIDAVIT
>> )
>> )


>> I, Col. Philip J. Corso, (Ret.) do hereby swear, under the
>>penalties of  perjury, that the following statements are true:

>> That at all times hereinafter mentioned, I was a member and
>>officer of the defendant.

>> That during my tenure with the defendant I was a member of
>>President Eisenhower's National Security Council and former
>>head of the Foreign Technology Desk at defendant's Research &
>>Development department.

>> That on or about July 6, 1947, while stationed at Fort Riley,
>>Kansas, I
>> personally observed a four-foot non-human creature with
>>bizarre-looking four-fingered hands, thin legs and feet, and
>>an oversized incandescent light bulb-shaped head. The eye
>>sockets were oversized and almond
>> shaped and pointed down to its tiny nose. The creature's skull
>>was overgrown to the point where all its facial features were
>>arranged frontally, occupying only a small circle on the lower
>>part of the head.  There were no eyebrows or any indications
>>of facial hair. The creature
>> had only a tiny flat slit for a mouth and it was completely
>>closed, resembling more of a crease or indentation between the
>>nose and the bottom of the chinless skull than a fully
>>functioning orifice.

>> That in 1961, I came into possession of what I refer to as the
>>'Roswell File.' This file contained field reports, medical
>>autopsy reports and technological debris from the crash an
>>extraterrestrial vehicle in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947.

>> That I have personally read the medical autopsy reports
>>which refer to the autopsy of the previously described creature
>>that I saw in 1947 at Fort Riley, Kansas.

>> That said autopsy reports indicated the autopsy was performed
>>at Walter Reed Hospital, which was under the authority of the
>>defendant at the time of the autopsy.

>> That said autopsy report referred to the creature as an
>> 'extraterrestrial biological entity.'

>> __________________________

>> Colonel Philip J. Corso (ret.)

>> Sworn before me
>> this day of ___ May, 1998.

>According to the Eisenhower Library, Colonel Corso was NEVER a
>member of the National Security Council and did NOT attend any
>of its meetings. He was connected with a subgroup. In addition
>according to the Roster of the R and D unit under General
>Trudeau, there only 2 members in the foreign technology Div. Lt.
>Colonel Corso was the junior officer. He claimed to have been
>head of the group. In other words, there seems to have been some
>very serious misrep- resentation. According to Peter Gersten,
>Corso and his son, when asked if the statement about his being
>an NSC member whould be deleted from the affidavit, both said
>no.

Lieutenant Colonel Corso--I find no record of his advancement on
the retired list and when he recently testified before Congress
on POW matters it was as Lieutenant Colonel Corso, US Army retired--
was according to his Officer Qualification Record, Department of
the Army Form 66, indeed chief of the Foreign Technology Division
from 18 April 1962 to 18 June 1962.  This 90 day period was enough
time to give him an officer evaluation report for this position.

(Speculation:  he was put in this position to enhance his records
before a promotion board as he was also, during this short period,
awarded a General Staff Indentifier and awarded the Military
Occupational Speciality of Research and Development, Coordinator.
There is no indications of promotion boards or non-selections on
DA Form 66.  Such items would be in his Personnel File.)

He was *not* Chief of the Foreign Technology Division for two
years as he claimed in his book.  This and other inflations don't
seem to bother people at all.

[Shoot the messenger points:
  Stan Friedman  50 pts.
  Jan Aldrich    20 pts.
Take your shots now!]
--
Jan Aldrich







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                       P-1947: Fred Whiting on Roswell

From: Herb Taylor <HerbUFO@AOL.COM>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 11:58:21 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:53:41 -0400
Subject: P-1947: Fred Whiting on Roswell

Greetings to the List:


"The Roswell case is a Cautionary Tale. It teaches us not to
believe everything you read in the newspapers or even hear from
first-hand "witnesses". It also shows that some in the UFO
field are pursing(sic) an agenda that is not necessarily
congruent with the truth".

These are not my words, though I am in complete agreement with
them. They are the words of Fred Whiting, formerly a prominent
UFO researcher held in high regard by his peers, no longer
active in ufology. For many years he played a leading role in
the Fund for UFO Research, first as a member of the Executive
Committee, and later also as the Secretary-Treasurer. He also
played a leading role in that organization's activities as it
related to the Roswell matter. Noteworthy is the fact that for
many years he held the view that Roswell was an event of
considerable importance, only to become a firm skeptic when he
realized that he had been mislead by misrepresntation and
misinterpretation of the data by persons he had believed to be
giving us the straight story. Further clarification of Fred
Whiting's current views are as follows;

"I am convinced that the debris recovered on the Brazel ranch
was from Project Mogul. This became apparent to me when Charles
Moore explained the "alien writing" on the 'I-beams' as tape
from a novelty store with flowers - exactly the description of
several people (including Mac Brazel's daughter) who handled the
material.

"All of the sensational claims of alien bodies and craft have
come from unreliable witnesses whose testimony has been
thoroughly discredited. That some of these witnesses have been
enthusiastically supported and promoted by self-styled UFO
"investigators" is shameful. I accept some measure of blame
myself for including the testimony of Gerald Anderson in the
'Recollections of Roswell' video (although I note that he
was the ONLY Roswell witness to have taken - and passed - a
polygraph examination).

"I guess the most persuasive evidence was Glenn Dennis's story
about the nurse. He was, as you know, a very credible witness -
even though his testimony was second-hand. The fact that there
was no evidence that the nurse ever existed eventually made his
account very problematic.

"When you get right down to it, however, there never was very
much credible evidence about bodies and an extraterrestrial
craft. Only tantalizing stories told by not-very-credible
witnesses like Gerald Anderson, Frank Kauffman and Frankie Rowe,
or second-hand accounts by people who were dead ('Pappy'
Henderson and Melvin Brown, for example)."

His comments as to why he left the Fund (and ufology) are worth
noting;

"...I was becoming rather weary of both the Fund and the UFO
subject. I was spent on the Roswell case, satisfied with what we
had managed to accomplish (to initiate a congressional inquiry
that led to a definitive answer of what crashed in 1947), but
disappointed with the behavior of many in the field - including
people I had considered to be friends and colleagues.

"When it became apparent that there was a prosaic explanation
for Roswell, I was astonished to learn that a number of folks
with the Fund seemed to unwilling to accept what had become
patently obvious.

"That and their rejection of Karl Pflock as the harbinger of
this 'bad news' suggested to me that Truth had become a
casualty."

Whereas Kent Jeffrey went public with his change of heart on
Roswell, Fred Whiting chose to take a low profile. It is most
important that his succinct views on Roswell are now on the
record.

Regards, Herb Taylor





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   Jul > Jul 20

                                 Re: The Rod

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 13:55:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 13:53:12 -0400
Subject: Re: The Rod

>Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 06:56:53 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Rod


>>Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 17:08:11 -0700
>>From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Rod

>>> Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:17:27 -0700 (PDT)
>>> To: updates@globalserve.net
>>> From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>>> Subject: The Rod

>>> Is there an expert on "rods" on this list?

<snip>

>>I must admit that I was quite skeptical about these high speed
>>thingies; but, the information on the web page has forced me to
>>keep an open mind about it.

>>Terry

>Some time ago I challenged Jose to "put up or shut up" on this
>subject by sending me his tape for study.  Nothing happened, so
>I just sort of forgot about it.

>I just wanted to say that to his credit Jose did send me the tape
>last week.  I have not had time to study it yet, but will do so.>

>Bob

Hi Bob,

Hope you will be posting results of your study to the list. I
look forward to reading it. I had one sighting of what can be
described as a "rod" during the (second) major blackout in New
York. (70's) Myself and my landlords daughter had walked a half
a block from where we resided to an avenue in Brooklyn that
allows you to see the tops of the two World Trade Center towers
as well as several other tall buildings in the downtown area. We
had gone down there to see if there were any lights on in the
buildings in Manhattan. We figured if Manhattan was back online
that our power would soon be restored.

We were both greeted by a shocking sight when we arrived at the
corner and looked over at the Trade Center. My landlords
daughter let out a squeal as she asked me, "what is that thing?"
We were both seeing a long (about a 1/4 to a 1/2 mile long,
white, pencil thin, "object" floating slowly in a westerly
direction directly over the Trade Center. There was a brilliant
flash (like a picture was being taken) and the "object" was
gone! We both looked at each other and the girl (who was
seventeen or eighteen at the time) ran up the block screaming
for her father.

I spent the evening with a transistor radio pressed to my ear
trying to catch a news report about the thing we had seen. No
mention at all on any of the newscasts. It must have been about
1:30 AM that I was getting ready to give up and go to sleep when
a call came in to live radio show that was doing 'live' coverage
of the blackout. It was woman who lived in Manhattan. Her voice
was trembling as she asked if anyone else had seen that long
cigarette thing and the flash. (her description) I jumped out of
my skin man. I spent the next two-and-a-half hours repeatedly
dialing the number of the call-in show so I could corroborate
the ladies sighting. Couldn't get through. It was frustrating as
shit for me.

Many years later I saw a photo in a Life Magazine article of the
Manhattan skyline during the same NY blackout. In the left of
the frame was a long white pencil thin object hanging in the
sky! Does anyone else remember this Life Mag photo? It is around
on the web on one or two UFO sites although I can't recall which
ones. That bugger was real! I saw it, someone who was standing
right next to me saw it, and that lady who called in to the
radio show saw it! Someone photographed it! Yup, I'm curious
about "rod" shaped craft myself. And for good reason! <G>

Peace,

John Velez, Repeated UFO sighting 'victim'







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   Jul > Jul 20

                    Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs

From: Max Burns <AlienHype1@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:24:26 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 22:23:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs


In a message dated 7/20/98 11:08:51 AM GMT, you write:

>Subject: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs
>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 23:01:54 -0400
>To: updates@globalserve.net

>The hypothesis advanced in the recently posted Magonia claims
>that some close encounters may be the result of migraine or
>migraine-like phenomena, in keeping with the theory that UFOs
>are accounted for by the Misperception, Hallucination, and
>Hoax Hypothesis (MHH).

<snip>

I work with a couple of abductees in the UK and one of these
abductees has been to an abductee support group, it has become
apparent that out of the 20 who attend the monthly meeting 14
have been diagnosed as having M.E.. as well as other usual
medical probes, associated with the scenario....

Either the abduction scenario is a side effect of the medical
problem M.E. which I very much doubt.

Or I believe that we may have stumbled on to something here..

comments please..

Max Burns Alienhype1@aol.com






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   Jul > Jul 20

                                 Re: The Rod

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 14:40:54 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 22:23:24 -0400
Subject: Re: The Rod

> Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 13:55:51 -0500
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Rod

> >Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 06:56:53 -0400
> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Rod

> >>Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 17:08:11 -0700
> >>From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Rod

> >>> Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:17:27 -0700 (PDT)
> >>> To: updates@globalserve.net
> >>> From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
> >>> Subject: The Rod

> >>> Is there an expert on "rods" on this list?

> <snip>

> >>I must admit that I was quite skeptical about these high speed
> >>thingies; but, the information on the web page has forced me to
> >>keep an open mind about it.

> >>Terry

> >Some time ago I challenged Jose to "put up or shut up" on this
> >subject by sending me his tape for study.  Nothing happened, so
> >I just sort of forgot about it.

> >I just wanted to say that to his credit Jose did send me the tape
> >last week.  I have not had time to study it yet, but will do so.>

> >Bob

And, though it doesn't have to mean a thing to you, your personal
stock just went up with _me_, sir.

> Hi Bob,

> Hope you will be posting results of your study to the list. I
> look forward to reading it.

<reluctant snip of UFO account regarding sighting of slow moving rod>

> We both looked at each other and the girl (who was
> seventeen or eighteen at the time) ran up the block screaming
> for her father.

>John Velez

And there you have it! A better example of the meaning for "Spare
the rod and spoil the child." <g>--

Explore the Alien View? <Updated 18 July>

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake.








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   Jul > Jul 20

                      Mr. Werner Walter And His Reality

From: Joachim Koch <koch@wad.berlin.fido.de>
Date: 20 Jul 98 12:12:00 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 22:23:28 -0400
Subject: Mr. Werner Walter And His Reality


>Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 16:05:13 -0700
>From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich)
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Foo-Fighters--A German View

>A recent exchange (slightly edited) from the Project 1947 List is
>below.
>===============================================================
>Subject: Foo-Fighters: The German view
>Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 16:20:22 -0400
>From: Werner Walter <113236.1604@COMPUSERVE.COM>
>To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

>Hi List;

>The foo fighter-scenario is very interessting for me as a German.
>Fromtime to time I read short articles about this "objects" in the
>UFO-press

<snip>

>I'm now 25 years active here in Germany on the UFO-field as
>researcher and case-investigator but never found a man which
>has reported me a foo fighter-sighting - on the other side few
>people come up which has phantastic storys about their works on
>the socalled Nazi-saucer (but these men were all crackpots).

>Werner

>============================================

Hello Errol, Hello List,

Though I know that "personalities" are not quite the topic of this
list, I think I should inform you that two individuals have shown up
here recently who had caused very much damage to a greater public in
their fields of activity.

I know that everyone has his right to take part in this list and that
it is also the right of everyone here to express controversial
opinions. I attended this list since a long time and have learned a
lot from what was presented here. I  think, for various reasons, at
least you should know with whom you are dealing here because not many
of you know about Mr. Werner Walter (Germany) and Mr. Robert Irving
(UK).

This is meant not to start a discussion but to share information.

                                -.-.-.-

Mr. Werner Walter estimates himself to be the main and most
important debunker of  Germany. He has only one idol: Mr. Phil
Klass. He even wants to be  better. Whenever someone claims to
have seen an UFO or something  unusual happens, Mr. Walter is
present and starts to explain away  everything. Whenever the
German media needs someone to ridicule the  UFo research in
general or researchers in particular (such as above:  "...but
these men were all crackpots...") they ask Mr. Walter who  loves
to see himself in the spotlight.

Mr. Walter has left all borders behind and has no diffulty in
diffaming people whenever it is appropriate for  his needs. He
has no  scientific background and the organisation which he is
runnunig here  in Germany is a tiny one and has only  a few
members. He claims to  have "researched" several hundred cases
worldwide and has found no  evidence of any UFO. Of course, most
of his "research" was done  theoretically by watching pictures
and videos at home in his room.

One of his "highlights" is the debunking of the Belgium UFO
wave.  According to Mr. Walter, the Belgium UFO organisation
SOBEPS, the  Belgium Air Force and the hundreds of people around
an in the town of  Eupen or by the big water reservoir nearby
were all fools. What they  had seen with their own eyes or what
was seen on the radar screens of  the F16's or what the two
gendarmes were following with their car -  this was all rubbish
because Mr. Walter later was able to identify  from some video
at home in his room what was in the skies over Belgium  at that
time: ultra-light aeroplanes.

Mr. Walter has the worst reputation here in Germany (numerous
researchers would confirm this), has caused major damage to
serious  German UFO resarch and is continuing to do so.

                                -.-.-.-


Mr. Robert Irving is widely known as one of the main crop circle
hoaxers of Great   Britain. He has worked alone and together
with other hoaxers such as   Jim Schnabel. He has caused major
damage to the serious crop circle  research for example by
infiltrating a serious research group such as  the famous
"Beckhampton Group" in the early nineties. He has fooled
thousands of good-willing and trusting people worldwide by
creating  elaborate crop circle hoaxes up to today. He has
issued a handbook for  hoaxers and faked a photograph of an UFO
inside a hangar in Italy for  a British magazine. He sucks
information from where and whom he can to  use it for his dark
activities as he has started discussions even here  in this
list. In England, he knows, it is better for him not to come
too close to certain British farmers or researchers.

                                -.-.-.-

Joachim  Koch
International Roswell Initiative, Germany









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   Jul > Jul 20

                      Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS

From: Robert Todd <RTodd12191@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:35:57 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 22:23:20 -0400
Subject: Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS


>Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:26:34 -0700
>From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich)
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS

>>From: Stanton T. Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
>>Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 13:40:12 -0300
>>Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 16:54:48 -0400
>>Subject: Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS

>>> From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk>
>>> To: updates@globalserve.net
>>> Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 08:29:29 +0200
>>> Subject: The Affidavit for Col. Philip Corso (ret.)

Jan (see below):


>Stan (see below):

<snip>

>>> Colonel Philip J. Corso (ret.)

>>According to the Eisenhower Library, Colonel Corso was NEVER a
>>member of the National Security Council and did NOT attend any
>>of its meetings. He was connected with a subgroup. In addition
>>according to the Roster of the R and D unit under General
>>Trudeau, there only 2 members in the foreign technology Div. Lt.
>>Colonel Corso was the junior officer. He claimed to have been
>>head of the group. In other words, there seems to have been some
>>very serious misrep- resentation. According to Peter Gersten,
>>Corso and his son, when asked if the statement about his being
>>an NSC member whould be deleted from the affidavit, both said
>>no.

Isn't it interesting that Stanton "I've Been To More Archives
Than Anybody In The World" Friedman only believes documents when
they say what he wants them to say?  And since it seems doubtful
anybody who works at the Eisenhower Library was on the National
Security Council at the time Corso claimed to be a member, the
Eisenhower Library personnel had to rely on records for their
information.  Perhaps Corso's involvement with the NSC was _so_
secret that the information was removed from the NSC records to
conceal his involvement, or perhaps nobody on the NSC had the
"need to know" that Corso was a member of the NSC, or, more
likely, the NSC records consulted by the Eisenhower Library
personnel were incomplete.  After all, isn't Stan always telling
us about the hundreds of thousands of pages of NSC records that
haven't even been reviewed yet for declassification?  And what's
that pithy little saying he keeps spouting, "Absence of evidence
is not evidence for absence."  Sure, Corso was a member of the
NSC, and that fact would be revealed if we only had access to
those hundreds of thousands of pages of still- classified NSC
records.

Now that Corso has passed on to that great R&D lab in (we may
presume) the sky, the complete contents of his military
personnel file should be available for inspection.  Surely that
record will show he was a member of the NSC.  But even if it
doesn't, so what?  We reasonably can suppose, using the "logic"
of Friedman, Rudiak, Rqandle, and others of their ilk, that the
records are incomplete, and that, if they were complete, they
would show that Corso was a member of the NSC.  Again, "absence
of evidence is not evidence of absence."  Friedman should give
Corso the same benefit of any supposed doubt he extends to Major
Marcel.

>Lieutenant Colonel Corso--I find no record of his advancement on
>the retired list and when he recently testified before Congress
>on POW matters it was as Lieutenant Colonel Corso, US Army retired--
>was according to his Officer Qualification Record, Department of
>the Army Form 66, indeed chief of the Foreign Technology Division
>from 18 April 1962 to 18 June 1962.  This 90 day period was enough
>time to give him an officer evaluation report for this position.

>(Speculation:  he was put in this position to enhance his records
>before a promotion board as he was also, during this short period,
>awarded a General Staff Indentifier and awarded the Military
>Occupational Speciality of Research and Development, Coordinator.
>There is no indications of promotion boards or non-selections on
>DA Form 66.  Such items would be in his Personnel File.)

>He was *not* Chief of the Foreign Technology Division for two
>years as he claimed in his book.  This and other inflations don't
>seem to bother people at all.

Jan, after seeing how Major Marcel's "inflations" didn't seem to
bother anybody, does this really come as any surprise?  Hell,
that mental giant, David Rudiak, dubbed me the "civilian point
man in the Air Force's smear campaign against Marcel."  This is
the same David Rudiak who Friedman claims produced a point-
by-point refutation of my expose on Marcel, thereby allegedly
negating everything I claimed Marcel "inflated."  Fact is, Marcel
"inflated" through his teeth, but that's not what most of the UFO
field wants to hear -- certainly not Friedman, who has fattened
his purse on Roswell, and no doubt hopes to fatten it some more.
Apparently he can't stand the competition from Corso.

>[Shoot the messenger points:
    Bob Todd 1000 pts.
>  Stan Friedman  50 pts.
>  Jan Aldrich    20 pts.
>Take your shots now!]
>--
>Jan Aldrich

--
Bob "Testosterone" Todd
("Testy" to my friends)






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   Jul > Jul 20

                     Conference Focuses on Life in Space

From: Rebbeca <RSchatte@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:17:55 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 22:57:18 -0400
Subject: Conference Focuses on Life in Space

Subject: Conference Focuses on Life in Space
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:14:41 EDT

Conference Focuses on Life in Space

.c The Associated Press

 By CATALINA ORTIZ

MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif. (AP) - For a long time, scientists
speculated that life existed beyond the Earth. In recent years,
they discovered evidence that it might and developed better
tools for the search.

Now, they're ready to start looking.

Scientists gathered at NASA Ames Research Center on Monday to
begin drawing up an astrobiological 'roadmap', the first step in
deciding where and how they should seek Earth-like planets where
life may have evolved.

A three-day conference will examine the biological basis for
distant life, technological challenges in detecting it and
possible missions - based on Earth or in space - to find it.
Participants hope to reach consensus and draw up a report in the
next couple of months.

"The workshop is being held to identify the exciting
opportunities to bring space technology to bear on the
fundamental question about the origin, evolution and future of
life", said NASA astronomer David Morrison, co-chair of the
event.

"We believe astrobiology asks questions which we are now able to
answer - or try to answer", he said.

More than 100 scientists are taking part in the workshop.

Fueling scientists' desire for the quest are a number of
discoveries in recent years. For instance, researchers have
found that life on Earth can exist under extreme conditions - in
blocks of Antarctic ice, in hot springs, inside rocks. If
microbes can live there, perhaps they could live on seemingly
dead planets.

Data from the Galileo spacecraft detected signs of water under
the surface of Europa, a moon of Jupiter. Another discovery
exciting astrobiologists are possible fossils of bacteria inside
a Mars rock, although that finding is in dispute.

"Together they make an amazing statement - life may not be
uncommon", said NASA Administrator Daniel Goldin, who addressed
the audience via videotape. "We may not be alone"

Causing the most excitement, however, is the discovery of
planets beyond our own solar system. Scientists believe some, if
they meet the right conditions, could foster life.

Such planets would have to be in what researchers call the
"habitable zone", of a certain size orbiting a star like our sun
in an Earth-like orbit. Without those conditions, liquid water -
considered essential for life - could not exist.

AP-NY-07-20-98 2109EDT

Copyright 1998 The Associated Press.








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   Jul > Jul 20

                     Re: Why Migranes Don't Explain UFOs

From: Stanton T. Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 22:33:36 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 23:10:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Why Migranes Don't Explain UFOs


> Subject: Why Migranes Don't Explain UFOs
> From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
> Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 23:01:54 -0400
> To: updates@globalserve.net

> The hypothesis advanced in the recently posted Magonia claims
> that some close encounters may be the result of migrane or
> migrane-like phenomena, in keeping with the theory that UFOs are
> accounted for by the Misperception, Hallucination, and Hoax
> Hypothesis (MHH).

<snip>

> As far as scientific thinking goes, the migrane hypothesis is
> pretty bad. Though at least we get a hypothesis:

<snip>

Kudos to Mark for this excellent well reasoned and rational
discussion of the Migrane "hypothesis".Psuedoscience is indeed
the right term.






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                         Tactical Techniques Of UFOs

From: Jennifer Jarvis <fierycelt@full-moon.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:43:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 22:43:46 -0400
Subject: Tactical Techniques Of UFOs

Hi Errol and list.

A paper that T. Roy Dutton has recently written entitled:
'Global  Ufo Activity  -  A   Study  Of  Tactical  Techniques'
has been added to our ORBWATCH website.

We hope that this is of some interest to researchers.

There is a link to the paper at the bottom of the the Home page
of ORBWATCH.

Best wishes.

Jennifer Jarvis


"It's a kind of magic, it's a kind of magic,
 A kind of magic...One dream, one soul,
 One prize, one goal...
 One golden glance of what should be."

From: QUEEN "A Kind of Magic" album (1986)

*******************************************
Please visit our website "ORBWATCH" at

http://www.per.to/orbwatch

*******************************************








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   Jul > Jul 20

                        Chat with Linda Moulton Howe

From: Yvonne Hedenland <vonni_h@email.msn.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:04:30 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 22:45:03 -0400
Subject: Chat with Linda Moulton Howe


Glimpses of Other Realities, II: High Strangeness

Join the UFO Forum and Linda Moulton Howe on
Tuesday, July 21st at 6pm, PT for a chat on her
latest book:  "High Strangness" as well her her
current research.

Long known for her explorations into the 'stranger'
side of the UFO phenomenon, her latest excursion
include information on the military's knowledge of
UFOs, abductions, connections between other
possible beings and ourselves as well as issues
surrounding death experiences.

In the UFO Forum's audio interview with Howe, she
discusses her theories on why the military has kept
silent about the phenomenon for so long.  The audio
interviews will be available as of Monday evening at
9:30pm, ET - 6:30pm, PT. Howe will also discuss her
conversations with the late Col. Philip Corso.

This chat is available at http://forums.msn.com/UFO
The Briefing Room chat can be accessed by any IRC
client. The chat server name is publicchat.msn.com
and the room or channel name is #briefing.







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   Jul > Jul 21

                         Re: Fred Whiting on Roswell

From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 06:15:42 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 06:47:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Fred Whiting on Roswell


Herb Taylor writes:

>Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 11:58:21 EDT
>From: Herb Taylor <HerbUFO@AOL.COM>
>Subject: Fred Whiting on Roswell
>To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

<snip>

>Further clarification of Fred
>Whiting's current views are as follows;

>"I am convinced that the debris recovered on the Brazel ranch
>was from Project Mogul. This became apparent to me when Charles
>Moore explained the "alien writing" on the 'I-beams' as tape
>from a novelty store with flowers - exactly the description of
>several people (including Mac Brazel's daughter) who handled the
>material.

It could be argued, though, that the testimony mentioned is
contaminated by news stories that ran nationwide July 9 1947,
describing the object as a weather balloon with flowered tape on
it. Cf. the Roswell Daily Record, URL

http://www.roswell-record.com/rancher.html

or this one from the Las Vegas Review-Journal, URL

http://www.txdirect.net/~area51/resources/disctale.html

"Headquarters of the 8th army at Fort Worth, Texas, announced
that the wreckage of a tin-foil covered object found on a New
Mexico ranch was nothing more than the remnants of a weather
ballon.

<snip>

8. Those men who saw the object said it had a flowered paper tape
around it bearing the initials "D.P."


Stig








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                         UFO*BC - Naval Report 1922

From: Bill Oliver - UFO*BC <boliver@direct.ca>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 22:03:06 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 06:44:21 -0400
Subject: UFO*BC - Naval Report 1922


Check out our growing historical archives at http://www.ufobc.org
Latest sightings, Prince George photos and much more!

Enclosed is a copy of an article by Admiral R.E.S.Bidwell Royal
Canadian Navy which was printed in the official R.C.N. Magazine
"Crowsnest" in June 1952 [Vo1.4 NO.8].

Admiral Bidwell was the Admiral commanding the Atlantic Naval
Forces at the time of this printing. I knew the Admiral and can
vouch for the fact that he was a serious minded and thoroughly
proficient officer.

Admiral Bidwell is now dead but thankfully he has left us with a
record of his sighting of an UFO.

Yours sincerely,
George R. MacFarlane


LETTER TO THE EDITOR

Flying Saucers

The other day I picked up from a news stand a book called "The
Flying Saucers Are Real", which gave numerous highly
authenticated stories of the appearance and behaviour of these
phenomena.

I suddenly remembered having seen, many years ago, something
which might well have been a flying saucer (if these exist) and
I not only saw it but made a record of it in my Midshipman's
Log.

I was a Sub-Lieutenant at the time, hut I continued to write up
my log, though it was considerably more informal than in the
days when it had to be inspected weekly by the "Snotties'
Nurse." Here is the entry, verbatim, written in faded ink and
dated:


H.M.C.S. Aurora Dominica to Barbados January 6th, 1922.

'We sailed in the evening and I kept the first watch (traded
with H. for the morning). Extraordinary incident took place at
10 p.m. when we were just off the North West corner of
Martinique. A brilliant green light appeared on port bow. Looked
quite close and was moving rapidly astern. It went out, came on
again, and then finally went out. Its movement was quite even,
not in a trajectory, but level. I can't explain it.

I can well remember this incident. The green light in question
looked to be the size of a soccer football and was about 500
feet up in the air, travelling very rapidly in level flight. My
immediate reaction was that it must be a rocket or star shell
(it looked far too close to be a shooting star) but I
immediately realized that had it been either of these it would
be moving in a trajectory

I recollect turning to my Signal man, who had been watching this
thing open-mouthed, and saying to him, "Do you think we should
report this to the Captain!" He shook his head and said, "Better
not, sir," and I did not, but contented myself with recording
the incident in my Log.

Yours truly,
R. E. S.Bidwell,
REAR-ADMIRAL







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                         Sightings From ELUFON U.K.

From: Roy Hale <roy_hale@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:52:39 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 06:48:42 -0400
Subject: Sightings From ELUFON U.K.


Hi All:

I thought I would share, some recent sightings with you all.

MONDAY 12th July 98: Royston, Hertfordshire, 7:10pm

A witness reported, seeing 8-10 football size disks, hovering
above a field, along side the main A505 Rd, coming from Royston
to Baldock.

The witness, was driving at the time of veiwing the objects, and
had first veiwed them from the A10 Royston roundabout. The
objects were, interacting with each other, and were seemingly
contained in a circle of air.

At no time, did the objects move from the same space, and their
movement seemed, UN flowing and electrical?.

The objects were, hovering just above the peak of the hill.
ELUFON has checked out the hill, which has turned out to be a
public golf course. We held a sky watch, on the course this
Saturday night, and were treated to a spectacular view of the
whole area.

The witness sighting, lasted approx, 2mins. As it was still
early evening and was pretty light out, the objects were
catching the fading sunlight.As the witness described, a silver
and white colour coming off of the objects.

The witness said, in no way were these seagulls, or balloons,
because the movement was so unusual.

We are currently hoping for more reports, from the mentioned
area. When the area was checked out, it seems that the golf
course may be part of an ancient landscape. The witness was
unable to stop, due to the busy nature of the road, the A505 is
a main artery road from Baldock, to Cambridge. We will post
further updates on this sighting when and as they arrive.


SUNDAY 19th July 98: Vauxhall,Central London 3:30am

Two witnesses, reported seeing, two golden orange  luminous
looking objects, as they were leaving a friends house.

The objects came from the South and were heading East. At first
they, thought it may have been a strobe light of some kind, but
were taken aback by the, movements of the objects.

The objects seemed, to be almost as one object, and would then
split apart and then, act pretty wild in their movements. The
witnesses, said they had never seen anything like it before, and
are now convinced that they were, not from here.

The objects were, veiwed for about 1 minute:45 seconds, and then
dissapeared over the adjoining, buildings. This sighting, sounds
very much like the one, that appears on the Quest Video, Hard
Evidence 2, with the report coming from the Sheffield area,
please correct me if I am wrong.

At this time, we are ruling out light Aircraft, although London
City Airport, is only 10 mins, away but this is not on their
flight path. We are waiting, for an more in depth interview, and
will update the info on this case as it arrives.

                 Kindest Regards to All

                         Roy..

        ( Proof by Perseverance: Watch The Skies )









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                            Clinton's UFO Circle

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:45:25 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 07:11:47 -0400
Subject: Clinton's UFO Circle


This news item is about Vincent Foster, but interestingly enough says:
"Foster became a symbol of the travails of the Arkansas circle around
the Clintons. He became a cult figure among some of the same people
obsessed by the John F. Kennedy assassination and Roswell UFOs."

>From the Washington Post via the Contra Costa Times URL:

http://www.hotcoco.com/news/frontstories/alx71170.htm


Stig

*******

Published on July 20, 1998

Suicide altered history

*Vince Foster's death five years ago today was an event that forever
changed the Clinton presidency in perception and reality

*Lott questions efforts to keep Secret Service from testifying on
Lewinsky matter. B1

By Peter Baker
WASHINGTON POST


WASHINGTON -- After a cheeseburger lunch at his desk, Vincent W. Foster
Jr. left his office around 1 p.m., saying he would be back.

Five hours later, his lifeless body was found next to a Civil War
cannon in a Virginia park. As his compatriots at the White House
struggled to absorb the shock, one senior official told a colleague, "I
don't know that it'll ever be the same after this."

Few statements have been so prescient. Five years ago today, the man
who grew up with President Clinton and practiced law with Hillary
Rodham Clinton drove across the Potomac River, shot himself and altered
the course of a presidency.

What was certainly a personal tragedy for his friends and family became
a defining event for a young administration, one that robbed any
remaining innocence from the fresh-faced crew that had arrived in
Washington six months earlier, one that permanently colored how the
nation's leader looks at its capital and its culture, and one that
spawned an enduring climate of suspicion and a cottage industry of
conspiracy theories.

Even now, the aftermath of Vince Foster's suicide continues to ripple
through the Clinton White House, whether it be a new book examining the
events surrounding his death or a ruling by the Supreme Court a few
weeks ago setting a national precedent on the bounds of attorney-client
privilege.

Foster became a symbol of the travails of the Arkansas circle around
the Clintons. He became a cult figure among some of the same people
obsessed by the John F. Kennedy assassination and Roswell UFOs. But
there are those looking back now who believe that had Foster lived, the
story of the Clinton presidency would been different in tangible ways
-- albeit for vastly divergent reasons.

"I thought his death changed history in some respects," Bernard
Nussbaum, who was White House counsel and Foster's boss at the time,
said in an interview last week.

In the months after Foster died, as the controversy over Whitewater
bloomed into a full-fledged Washington scandal, Nussbaum was the lone
voice in the upper ranks of the White House resisting the call for the
appointment of a special prosecutor, arguing it would lead to a
never-ending search for crimes where they did not exist.

Nussbaum lost the fight. Clinton reluctantly agreed to an investigation
into his real estate dealings in Arkansas, leading to the appointment
of independent counsel Robert B. Fiske Jr. and his successor, Kenneth
W. Starr, and the resulting years of subpoenas, indictments and court
battles that touched on everything from FBI files to Foster's death to
Clinton's alleged sexual adventures.

"If Vince had been around to support that position, if I hadn't been
the only one among his senior aides to take that position, he would
have had a big impact," Nussbaum said.

A former investigator who looked into many of those issues has reached
the same conclusion from another vantage point.

The way the White House seemed to stand in the way of the Justice
Department and others investigating Foster's death and the belated
discovery that Whitewater files had been removed from his office
generated a brushfire of speculation that there must be something the
Clintons were hiding.

"I don't think the suicide per se was the significant thing," said the
investigator, who declined to be identified for fear it might affect
his current business. "I think the handling of the Department of
Justice by the White House counsel's office in the days after the
suicide ignited Whitewater. Had that not happened, the whole thing
might never have triggered all the interest in Congress and ultimately
the independent counsel."

Foster's six months as deputy White House counsel were marked by
unaccustomed controversy -- failed nominations for attorney general,
challenges to the secrecy of the first lady's health care task force
and, finally, the travel office affair in which longtime employees were
fired while business was steered to the president's allies.

He took the criticism far more seriously than many, and in words that
effectively became his epitaph, he wrote in a note found ripped up
after his death that while neither he nor anyone in the White House
violated any law, "the public will never believe the innocence of the
Clintons and their loyal staff. =85 I was not meant for the job or the
spotlight of public life in Washington. Here ruining people is
considered sport."

Perhaps the chief irony of Foster's death is that a man who so hated
the spotlight will forever be remembered by some as the center of a
bizarre conspiracy.

There will always be people convinced Foster was murdered in a safe
house in Northern Virginia. That his body was rolled up in a carpet and
moved to Fort Marcy Park. That he had been involved in a CIA-sponsored
drug-smuggling operation.

In retrospect, according to some people close to him and the White
House, the fuel for that fire resulted from the confluence of three
factors -- speculation about Foster's relationship with Hillary
Clinton, the Whitewater connection and the seemingly hurried initial
investigation hindered by White House-erected obstacles.

The White House search of Foster's office the night of his death
continues to cause mystery.

During the formal search two days later, Nussbaum insisted on looking
through all the papers himself, contrary to an earlier agreement, while
angry Justice Department and police investigators looked on and were
shown only what the White House counsel deemed relevant.

The White House did not disclose the discovery of the torn-up note
until days later, after notifying Foster's family. Five months later,
the White House acknowledged Foster had a file on Whitewater. Two years
after his death, the White House produced handwritten notes in which
Foster wrote that Whitewater was "a can of worms you shouldn't open."
In January 1996, the White House discovered and turned over
long-missing Rose firm billing records last thought to be in Foster's
possession.

Edition: SRVT,=BF Section: A,=BF Page: 1


=A9 1998 Contra Costa Times





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                     Home PC's Help SETI Search For ETs

From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:23:17 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 07:08:52 -0400
Subject: Home PC's Help SETI Search For ETs


From the Houston Chronicle. URL:

http://www.chron.com/cgi-bin/auth/story.mpl/content/interactive/space/ne
ws/98/980720a.html

Links are preceded by asterisks.

Stig

********

8:40 AM 7/20/1998

PCs to help SETI listen for extra-terrestrials
by Pierre Celerier

LOS ANGELES, July 20 (AFP) - Thousands of volunteers around the
world are putting their personal computers at the disposition of
US researchers hoping to find signs of extra-terrestrial
intelligence.

Want to join the effort? Learn more at *the SETI@home website.
The cyber-volunteers will help scientists in the project, known
as the Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence at Home, or
SETI@home, said Dr. David Anderson of the University of
California at Berkeley.

"We have 115,000 people signed up," Anderson said. "I don't have
statistics, but I believe a large fraction are international,"
with most from Europe.

"Each participant will have the slight but captivating
possibility that his or her computer will detect the faint
murmur of a civilization beyond Earth," he said.

The PCs around the world will create a virtual super computer by
using the SETI@home program, a kind of screensaver.

"Like other screensavers it starts up when you leave your
computer unattended, and it shuts down as soon as you return to
work," the researchers say on their Internet site.

"What it does in the interim is unique. While you are getting
coffee, or having lunch or sleeping, your computer will be
helping the Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence by
analyzing data specially captured by the world's largest radio
telescope," the Arecibo radio telescope in Puerto Rico.

Existing SETI projects use custom signal processing hardware,
listening to the real-time telescope output on millions of
frequency channels simultaneously.

But that only skims the surface. Researchers say volunteers will
help the project analyze smaller parts of frequency spectrums
more thoroughly.

SETI has been functioning for two decades, financed at a number
of US universities through private donations. The 1997 Hollywood
film "Contact" starred Jodie Foster as a SETI researcher who
stumbles across a signal from another planet.

"No one has been able to do a search this sensitive before
because it takes a huge amount of computing power," said Dan
Werthimer of the Search for Extraterrestrial Radio Emissions
from nearby Developed Intelligent Populations, or SERENDIP.

>From the Arecibo telescope, SERENDIP instruments listen to 168
million frequencies simultaneously.

"The signals we are searching for are likely to be very weak,
because they have traveled such long distances," said Werthimer.
"So we've made SETI@home 10 times more sensitive to weak signals
than our present search."

"In the last two years, many new planets have been found, some
of these orbit stars similar to our sun," Anderson said. "So it
now looks like the galaxy is teeming with planets."

"Some of these planets will have the required temperature and
environment for life."

Cybernauts can go to

http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/

on the Internet to find out how they can join the effort.




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                    Re: TV Documentaries On Greer's Ideas

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 03:47:31 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 07:30:25 -0400
Subject: Re: TV Documentaries On Greer's Ideas


>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 06:01:11 +0200
>Subject: Upcoming TV Documentaries Based On Steven Greer's Ideas

>American Artists Film Corporation Announces Agreement with
>Dr. Steven M. Greer

>PR Newswire - July 16, 1998 19:16


>ATLANTA, July 16 /PRNewswire/ -- American Artists Film
>Corporation (OTC Bulletin Board: AAFC) announced completion of
>an agreement with Crossing Point, Inc., a company headed by Dr.
>Steven M. Greer, an authority on the subject of extraterrestrial
>intelligence. Subject to completion of financing, the agreement
>calls for AAFC to produce a series of television documentaries
>featuring Dr. Greer's ideas and opinions regarding the existence
>of extraterrestrial life. AAFC has six months, with an optional
>six-month extension, to securing financing.

So what we seem to be discussing is Ross Perot style "paid
informercials" so to speak, depending on who is going to bank
roll the project(s).

Unless Greer buys primetime like Perot did, these shows will
only be seen betwwen 1-4 in the morning.

>Dr. Greer is the founder and international director of the
>Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence
("CSETI"). >According to CSETI, Dr. Greer has met with and
provided >briefings to senior military, intelligence and
government >officials in the United States and around the world,
including >senior CIA officials, Joint Chiefs of Staff, White
House staff, >senior members of Congress and congressional
committees, senior >United Nations leadership and diplomats,
senior military >officials in the United Kingdom and Europe, and
cabinet-level >staff members of the Japanese government, among
others.

This paragraph is what I have heard the PR/press release writers
call a "stress the importance of that person with whatever
propaganda/information can be unloaded in a paragraph. Notice
they didn't bother to mention Steve's breathless claims how ETs
and special forces were involved in some kind of operation
involving allegedly involving Sarin in Colorado's San Luis
Valley.

>"This agreement represents a significant opportunity for
>American Artists to both showcase our creative talents and
>abilities and to be associated with the presentation of the
>ideas and opinions of an authority on the subject of
>extraterrestrial intelligence," said Robert A. Martinez, Chief
>Financial Officer of AAFC.

Personally I think people like Jerry Clark, Walt Andrus,
Christopher O'Brien and others are more "of an authority" then
Greer is. American Artists may be seeing this as a way to get
themselves out in the forefront with a special on UFOs.

>American Artists Film Corporation, based in Atlanta, Georgia, is
>a multi-faceted entertainment company committed to the creation,
>production and distribution of original, innovative programming
>and films for a variety of media. AAFC has focused its efforts
>on creating and producing programming for a number of venues
>including television specials, television commercials,
>corporate/industrial videos, as well as, developing
>made-for-television and theatrical movies and out-of-home Large
>Screen Video Display operations.

In major TV production circles this would be referred to as a
mom and pop operation.

>Forward-Looking Statements:

>Except for the historical information contained herein, this
>news release may contain forward-looking statements within the
>meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1934, as
>amended, and may involve risks and uncertainties, including
>those relating to the availability of suitable financial
>resources, the availability of management, production and
>creative personnel, access to suitable distribution channels for
>the Company's entertainment products, and favorable reaction to
>those products by media, advertisers and audiences, as well as
>other risks detailed from time to time in the Company's SEC
>reports, including reports on Form 10-KSB for the year ended
>July 31, 1997 and Form 10-QSB for the quarters ended April 30,
>1998, January 31, 1998 and October 31, 1997.

Nothing like a risk and uncertainty disclaimer as a forward
looking statement.

<snip>

>Bob Schu of Desmond Towey & Associates,

Probably the PR firm who wrote the release.

Cheers,
Robert






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             Roswell Witnesses Interviewed By Houston Chronicle

From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 07:23:03 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 06:56:39 -0400
Subject: Roswell Witnesses Interviewed By Houston Chronicle


In connection with the 50th anniversary of the Roswell crash the
Houston Chronicle interviewed some of the principal witnesses.
Text as well as RealAudio versions are available online, but as
I haven't seen them quoted elsewhere I'll bring some of the most
interesting ones.

Links to all of the interviews can be found at

http://www.chron.com/voyager/ufo/people.html

but I would like to start with Robert Shirkey. The URL is

http://www.chron.com/voyager/ufo/shirkey.html


Stig

*******

*RealAudio of Robert Shirkey

ROBERT SHIRKEY

By Stephen Johnson
Houston Chronicle
stephen.johnson@chron.com

509th Bomb Group operations officer Robert Shirkey first learned
that something unusual was being flown to Fort Worth when he
returned from lunch July 8, 1947 and wonders if his interest in
it caused him to be transferred unexpectedly to a non-existent
job days later.

"I entered the Operations building and asked the civilian clerk
on duty what was going on and he said, `We just got an order
from Col. Blanchard to have a B-29 go to Fort Worth.'

"I walked out towards the ramp on the south side of the building
and watched the B-29 pull up by the building and shut its
engines off.

"I walked back in to (say) the plane was there and a voice
behind me said, "Where's my airplane?' and it was Col. Blanchard
who had come in through the front door. He stepped back into the
hallway and waved at several people who were standing outside.
They came into the front door and down the hallway and Blanchard
stepped back into the doorway.

"I said to him, `Colonel, turn sideways I want to see too.' Of
course he gave me his usual scowl and we stood belt
buckle-to-belt buckle with our heads turned, watching these
people go through the hallway carrying boxes of this material
they picked up.

"Maj. Marcel came along with an open cardboard box with several
pieces of this aluminum-like material with one of the I-beams
sticking up in the corner...with characters written on a portion
of it. What the characters were I cannot recall at all.

"Another gentleman in a civilian suit was walking along with a
piece stuck under his arm like a poster board."

"The group went out on the ramp and across to the airplane. Col.
Blanchard and I watched them hand the boxes up through the wheel
well and they climbed the ladder and shut the door."

At the same time a staff car came up to the back end of the
airplane and was handing some boxes up to the rear door. It left
and the aircraft started up its engines and taxied over to the
runway and we stood there until we saw it leave the ground and
start its turn toward Fort Worth."

Shirkey said the debris that he saw loaded aboard the bomber
looked nothing like weather balloons he saw launched from the
weather building located near his own office at Roswell Army
Airfield.

Shortly after this event, Shirkey, who was awaiting promotion to
captain and assignment to a new job at Roswell air base, shortly
afterward received some startling news.

"Nine days later I got a telegram from the Eighth Air Force
sending me to Clark Field in the Philippines to fill the request
the 13th Air Force had made for a weights and balance officer,"
said Shirkey.

His orders, oddly enough, were signed by Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey,
the Eighth Air Force commander who ordered Marcel to pose next
to the debris that Marcel said was not what he had recovered.

If Shirkey felt he was being shuffled away from Roswell
unceremoniously he found himself receiving unusually grand
treatment in the way he was to fly to Hamilton Field, Calif., on
the way to the Far East.

Deputy Base Commander Lt. Col. Payne Jennings, who flew the B-29
with the debris aboard to Fort Worth, informed Shirkey that he
would personally fly him to California for his next assignment.

"He told me, `Take a few says off and next Sunday give me a call
and I'll take you to California.'

"A week or two later, Lt. Col. Payne Jennings - the deputy base
commander - flew me as a first lieutenant to my next station in
California before going overseas.

"As we were flying along at altitude I asked him why are you
making this flight colonel and he said, `Just to take you to
your next base.'

"When was the last time you heard of a first lieutenant being
taxied by a deputy base commander in a B-29 to his next
station?" asked Shirkey.

When he arrived at Clark Field in the Philippines he had another
surprise when he was informed that no such job vacancy existed.

Shirkey was told the 13th Air Force had a weights and balance
officer and didn't need one. He would instead be made assistant
operations officer in a photo reconnaissance unit.

As far as Shirkey's concerned, his inexplicable departure from
Roswell "was part of the cover-up" of the saucer crash.

Today, Shirkey teaches oil field safety techniques at a junior
college branch of Eastern New Mexico University located on the
grounds of the former Roswell Army Airfield.

Nearby is the one-time operations center, where Shirkey worked.
It is today used by an aviation firm.

*******

The Walter Haut interview is at

http://www.chron.com/voyager/ufo/haut.html

*******

*RealAudio of Walter Haut

WALTER HAUT
By Stephen Johnson Houston Chronicle stephen.johnson@chron.com

On July 8, 1947 Walter Haut found himself at the epicenter of
the most sensational and shortest news flap of his career as an
Army Air Force public relations officer.

I got a call around 10:30 a.m. from Col. Blanchard's office
saying he wanted to see me so I immediately drove over to base
headquarters and went into to see him," said Haut, 75.

"He told me that he wanted me to put out a press release and
take it to town and hand-deliver it to the news media.

"He told me exactly what he wanted in the press release -- in
essence that we had in our possession a flying saucer that had
crashed north of town and that Maj. (Jesse) Marcel, our
intelligence officer, had flown the material to Fort Worth.

"I did not ask him (Blanchard) any questions," said Haut.

"This was the 509th bomb group which was a very secretive
organization. (Even) I could not get close to an airplane that
had the configuration to carry an atomic bomb in its bomb bay.

"At that point in time if you needed to know they told you. If
you wanted to know -- don't ask -- or you might end up being
transferred to a nice place like Thule (Greenland)."

"I did exactly what he told me and delivered it to two
newspapers and a radio station. I came home and had lunch. I
went back to the base and the phone was ringing. The enlisted
personnel said it had been ringing like mad.

"I picked up (the phone) and they wanted to know primarily how
Maj. Marcel knew how to fly the object," laughed Haut.

The release was worded in such a that it made it sound like
Marcel had flown the mystery craft to Eighth Air Force
Headquarters. Haut explained to reporters that only fragments of
the craft were flown aboard a plane to Fort Worth.

"We were through with it (the saucer story) when I put out that
release," he said. "When (Brig.) Gen. (Roger) Ramey came out
with the statement that it was not a flying saucer, that killed
it."

Ramey was commander of the Eighth Air Force at Fort Worth Army
Airfield at the time and oversaw the new and improved
explanation of what the rancher William "Mac" Brazel had
discovered.

"It (the story) died a quick and sudden death," said Haut who
was then exposed to some ribbing by his colleagues.

"Some of my fellow officers said you sure blew that one didn't
you? I said, `Not me! It was the boss!'"

Except for one, side comment, Blanchard said nothing at all to
Haut about what had happened.

The Monday following the (issuance of the now-famous) press
release we were in a staff meeting," said Haut. "I happened to
be sitting close to him in the chair at the end of the table and
he leaned over to me and said, `We sure blew that one didn't
we?'"

"We never talked about it. I never asked him and he never told
me."

Blanchard was based again at Roswell from 1951-1953 allowing the
two to continue their friendship over occasional luncheon and
dinner meetings.

During this period Haut would occasionally serve as base public
relations officer at Blanchard's request.

One extremely odd circumstance continued for years after the
1947 flying saucer episode in the form of visits that Haut and
his wife "Pete" received over the years from an Air Force
intelligence officer Haut knew from his days in the service.

"Anytime there was a flap over UFO sightings in the news
anywhere in the country he would show up," said Mrs. Haut still
irritated by the visits.

"He would always say he had some business at the base and he
wanted to come by for a visit and he would spend a lot of time
talking about how the Air Force had explained away this UFO
sighting or that one."

"I really got tired of it," she said.

Haut said visits eventually stopped and a UFO researcher
inquired about the intelligence officer only to be told curtly
by the Pentagon that the man had died.

Today, Haut is distressed by those who don't take the mystery of
the Roswell incident seriously by either debunking the event or
by embellishing stories about what happened.

"People are trying to make a farce out of it" said Haut. "The
people I know who were in a position to see and handle the
material were not a bunch of weirdos seeking any sort of
notoriety.

He recalled the then-Maj. Jesse Marcel as a capable and
professional officer who lived two blocks from his own home. The
two would occasionally drive to work together.

"Based on the fact they were in the 509th, their attitude was
different than (that of) the normal personnel. When you handle
atomic weapons you didn't go around flipping out about this,
that or the next thing.

To this day, Haut believes that what Blanchard told him was
something that his commander absolutely believed. The press
release, said Haut, is something that described precisely what
happened.

The events surrounding Blanchard's announcement about the
recovery of a space craft apparently had no impact on
Blanchard's career since he attained the rank of general at the
age of 40 and four-star rank at 50.

The official debunking of Blanchard's announcement about flying
discs was "orchestrated" by higher headquarters and acquiesced
to by Blanchard, the quintessential professional soldier,
believes Haut.

And what does Haut believe was found in the hills south of
Corona?

"A vehicle of some sort, probably coming from outer space," said
the retired insurance man. "Or, perhaps some foreign country may
have had an (aircraft) that crashed, but I don't think that's
feasible."

"I sincerely do not think in my lifetime or your lifetime that
they (the Air Force) will come out with anything new (on this).
I think they've had egg on their face for so long there's no way
they can wipe it off."


*******

The piece on Colonel Blanchard can be found at

http://www.chron.com/voyager/ufo/blanchard.html

and is partly based on an interview with Haut.

*******

COL. WILLIAM "BUTCH" BLANCHARD
By Stephen Johnson Houston Chronicle stephen.johnson@chron.com

Col. William "Butch" Blanchard was commander of the 509th Bomb
Wing at Roswell Army Airfield during the now-famous discovery of
the mysterious wreckage near Corona, N.M.

The extraordinary career of the highly-decorated West Point
graduate -- who rose to the top of the ranks before his death at
50 -- made it seem that Blanchard would know the difference
between a balloon and an alien space craft.

Born in 1916 to a physician and his wife, Blanchard would
ultimately rise to four-star rank in the United States Air Force
before dying suddenly in 1966 of a heart attack at the Pentagon.

During World War II, he commanded the 58th Bomb Wing in the
China-Burma-India Theater. In 1944 he flew the first B-29 into
China from India to begin bombing operations against Japanese
Army forces. He later commanded strategic bombing missions
against Japan from the Marianas Islands.

It was during the war that Blanchard began a close professional
and personal relationship with B-29 navigator Walter Haut who
would later become his public relations officer at Roswell Army
Air Field.

It was to Haut that Blanchard would dictate the announcement
that a space craft had been recovered by the Air Force.

As commander of the 509th Bomb Wing, Blanchard oversaw the only
U.S. military unit capable of delivering America's then-small
arsenal of nuclear weapons. He would later command the bomb wing
during its participation in live nuclear weapon tests at Bikini
Atoll in the Marshall Islands.

A tall man, Blanchard was a perfectionist and a demanding
leader. Those who served under him remembered he could turn
steely cold if he found something done improperly.

Haut recalls that Blanchard would sometimes interrogate
subordinate staff officers mercilessly to test their knowledge
and get to the absolute bottom of a problem.

Those beneath him learned to obey him instantly and completely.

When Blanchard called Haut into his office and dictated to him
the press release about the discovery of a "flying disc", Haut
took the information down, repeated it to Blanchard for
confirmation and issued it to local news organizations.

That was the way you did business with Col. Blanchard, said
Haut. If Blanchard said it, it was the gospel.

"He was a good guy," Haut says of Blanchard. "But you never
crossed him. He didn't put up with foolishness. With him it was
`do it and do it right'.

"I think he was a hand's-on officer. He knew what was going on
on the base. He would ask questions of all his squadron
commanders and provost marshals I remember at staff meetings he
would almost grill someone (asking), "Why did you do it that
way."

"When he wanted information he wanted it then and he wanted it
accurately."

"He was a very fine officer," said Haut whose relationship with
Blanchard ran so deep that when his former superior died in
1966, Blanchard's widow requested that Haut be notified before
any public announcement was made.

Haut, who lives in Roswell where he ran his own insurance
business, recalled his surprise when a uniformed colonel came to
his home to inform him of Blanchard's death.


*******

The Robert Porter interview is at

http://www.chron.com/voyager/ufo/porter.html

*******

B-29 FLIGHT ENGINEER ROBERT PORTER
By Stephen Johnson Houston Chronicle stephen.johnson@chron.com

New Mexico native Army Air Force flight engineer Robert Porter
knew nothing of his sister Loretta Proctor being asked by
William "Mac" Brazel to look at a piece of unusual debris when
he was asked to help fly the wreckage to Fort Worth on July 8,
1947.

Retired from the Air Force and now living in Great Falls, Mt.,
Porter remembers being told to man a B-29 carrying the wreckage
to Eighth Air Force headquarters in Fort Worth.

The 76-year-old Porter said he'd heard nothing about the
so-called saucer crash when he was ordered to man a B-29 bomber
for a flight to Wright Field, Ohio with a stop at Fort Worth.

"They handed it (the debris) through the hatch," he recalled. It
was real light and wrapped in brown wrapping paper and taped."

"There wasn't more than about four or five pieces of it and one
triangular piece about 18 inches across by two feet and the rest
was in boxes like shoe boxes."

Porter said he and his fellow crew members stayed on the field
until the material was unexpectedly transferred to a smaller
B-25 bomber that flew on to Wright Field.

"We just turned around and went back to Roswell," said Porter.

Porter said that shortly after the flight he and his sister
discussed what Brazel had shown her and they decided that it
must have been what he and his fellow crew members flew to Fort
Worth.

Porter also knew Brazel, describing him as a "quiet" man. "You
could believe anything he said."








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                          Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #257

From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 11:32:58 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 07:45:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #257


>Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 07:41:37 -0500
>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #257

Alfred,

I repeatedly expound to anybody that will listen that we are moving to
the next Revolution (as in Industrial, and so on), and that is the
Informational Revolution, where the Truth *WILL* be known by the
populace of the World, or else governments will fall.....

The Internet, like the factory, is going to revolutionize (that word
again) what people know, how they know it, and how much they *want* to
know.

It's time. The human race as a species must move on, if only so that our
habitat can be saved by truth and knowledge.
Otherwise, as I posted to Updates a while back, we will go down, and
good riddance....

regards

Jakes E. Louw
louwje@telkom.co.za






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                    Re: Mr. Werner Walter And His Reality

From: "A.U.R.A." <aura@telekabel2.nl>
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 13:09:07 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 07:52:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Mr. Werner Walter And His Reality


> From: Joachim Koch <koch@wad.berlin.fido.de>
> Date: 20 Jul 98 12:12:00 +0000
> Subject: Mr. W. Walter and his reality
> To: updates@globalserve.net

> Though I know that "personalities" are not quite the topic of this
> list, I think I should inform you that two individuals have shown up
> here recently who had caused very much damage to a greater public in
> their fields of activity.

> I know that everyone has his right to take part in this list and that
> it is also the right of everyone here to express controversial
> opinions. I attended this list since a long time and have learned a
> lot from what was presented here. I  think, for various reasons, at
> least you should know with whom you are dealing here because not many
> of you know about Mr. Werner Walter (Germany) and Mr. Robert Irving
> (UK).

> This is meant not to start a discussion but to share information.

<snip>

Hi Joachim,

First of all I agree with you: Personalities should NOT be an
issue! But since we're going there anyway. How about the
Lesotho-crash?

How about communicating with cropcircles (or their makers)?

Seems to me we _all_ have our own weirdness ;-) But somehow it
seems to me it's better to spend time researching _cases_ instead
of people!

A well it keeps the world from being grey and boring  :)


Andy Denne






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                          Philip Mantle 'Signs-off'

From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:56:41 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 07:56:43 -0400
Subject: Philip Mantle 'Signs-off'

Dear Friends and Colleagues,

I have to inform you that I am pulling out of ufology for an
indefinate period. This has not been an easy decision to reach
as I have been actively involved for nearly 20 years.

My reasons are many and varied but they mainly boil down to the
fact that my wife Sue has osteo-arthritis (spelling) and she may
at some point in the not too distant future require a hip
replacement operation. In the meantime at the tender age of 42
she has to restrict certain activities, such as gardening etc,
and rely on me instead. Added to this, our eldest daughter Sarah
(9) has just auditioned for a scholarship with the Royal Ballet.
As well as her normal education she attends a theatre school 3
or 4 times a week all of which is very time consuming. Our
youngest daughter Shona (5) looks like following in her sisters
footsteps and will be joining the same theatre school later this
year.

Again, all of this takes up my time, time which I cannot now
devote to ufology.

I have a number of projects to complete, such as the publication
of my first book 'WITHOUT CONSENT' in the USA, along with a
couple of UFO documentaries I am consulting on. I will work on
these until they are finished but I will not be taking on any
more work in the meantime.

I'll be staying on-line for a few months but my e-mail will be
cancelled before the end of this year. After that I will still
be able to be contacted at my normal home address or telephone
number.

Like I said at the beginning, this decision has not been reached
lightly but it is something I have to do   and my wife and
family must come first.

For those of you receiving this message that have become friends
of mine as well as colleagues, I'd ask you not to become
strangers just because I am no longer involved in ufology. I'll
always have an interest in the subject no matter what.

Yours Sincerely,

Philip Mantle.

20 July, l998.






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                    P-1947: Project SIGN Research Center

From: Wendy Connors <wendy.connors@MCI2000.COM>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 13:49:13 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:16:54 -0400
Subject: P-1947: Project SIGN Research Center

Hi Everyone!

The Project SIGN Research Center's web page has undergone some
changes. There are also seven new photos in the Photographic
Archives. Two new research articles will be appearing soon. For
those who wanted to be able to see the "old bat's" face a little
better can now download one for dart practise! :)

http://www.evansville.net/~slk/Sign.html

Wendy





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                   P-1947: Congratulations to Fred Whiting

From: Greg Long <greglong@PACIFICHARBOR.COM>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 20:54:57 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:16:38 -0400
Subject: P-1947: Congratulations to Fred Whiting

I want to congratulate Fred Whiting on his conclusion that the Roswell
debris was Project Mogul debris. This, too, is my conclusion. I always
found it patently ridiculous that the "alien artifacts" of Roswell would
turn out to be balsa-wood-like material.

The Roswell story is a very intriguing, interesting tale, but
nonetheless, it is second-hand and with no evidence of any
substantial nature to support the contention that a spacecraft
crashed in the desert. No photos of debris. No photos of alien
bodies. No bodies. Etcetera.

Should Kevin Randall want to actually prove Roswell, he might be
advised to turn his attention to proving a government conspiracy
to hide the truth of Roswell and stop touting second and
third-hand "remembrances."

Roswell has served one good purpose: it has stimulated public
interest in UFOs. However, beyond that accomplishment, Roswell
is fiction.

After I saw unexplained lights on Mary's Peak in western Oregon
in August and December 1995, I, for the first time, became an
actual UFO witness.

I now know that Roswell, in contrast to my own
sightings, is nothing but a science-fiction-like tale.

Once I learned that Donald Schmitt was a liar about his personal
background, I discarded Roswell as nothing but a money-making
effort by Randle and Schmitt.

I should tell this list that the moment I see any [Roswell--ebk]
message posted on the Project 1947 list, I immediately delete
it, unread.

What I like about this list is the occasional postings, usually
by Jan Aldrich, of actual SIGHTING REPORTS from the 1947 period.
These are a million times more valuable than endless hot hair
about Roswell.

I should also say that I instantly delete about 85% of the other
postings that deal with inter-personal rivalry, insults,
diatribes, and displays of intellectual wit and repartee.

I notice that usually when Aldrich leaves on a field trip, this
list rapidly degenerates into mindless and vapid babble.

I'll keep scanning each message rapidly and annihilating them as
I look for the actual UFO reports, the meat of the UFO
"experience."

*****************************************************************
Greg Long -- greglong@pacificharbor.com              425-820-6978
*****************************************************************






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                     Subscribers Posting To Other Lists

From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:35:33 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:35:33 -0400
Subject: Subscribers Posting To Other Lists


There are many subscribers to UpDates who post to other
Lists - this is addressed to them.

Please, be aware that I also subscribe to other Lists.
My mail program has both filters and label making
capabilities. Other List messages appear, sorted and
coloured according to those Lists, in my 'In-box'.

Because of the amount of traffic I receive, I may not
get to messages you have sent to UpDates as part of
multiple-address header.

To ensure that I see messages intended for UFO UpDates
and that they get posted to this List, please send this
address a separate copy of your messages.

In appreciation,





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              Major updates to the Temporal Doorway UFO Section

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 00:13:32 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:18:49 -0400
Subject: Major updates to the Temporal Doorway UFO Section

Here on the other side of The Temporal Doorway, there have
been many changes for those interested in UFOs. First, please
note that we now have our own domain name:

        http://www.temporaldoorway.com

If you link to The Temporal Doorway, it is recommended that
you alter any links which point to pages whose URLs start with
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623 or
http://www.geocities.com/~mcashman to start with the new URL
http://www.temporaldoorway.com.

This will insulate you against future changes to the location of
those pages (please note that no move is contemplated at present).

All of the following updates can be accessed from links on
The Temporal Doorway "What's New" page at

        http://www.temporaldoorway.com/whatsnew.htm

The Analysis of UFO Luminosity has been updated with more
detail on classification of luminosity and some speculation as to
how and why the luminosity is generated.

Additions have been made to the following reports:

1.      Blenheim NZ, 1959 (step by step breakdown of luminous
behavior)

2.      Selma AL, 1957 (diagram of luminous behavior)

3.      Sherman TX, 1965 (additional analysis of photos)

4.      Vins FR, 1957 (diagram showing position of witnesses and
appearance of the object)

5.      Lavonia GA, 1964 (drawing by witness, showing object
appearance)

Nw reports have been added:

1.      Socorro, 1964 - the first occupant report to gain acceptance
in the United States. Includes physical trace evidence, one image
of which is included at this site. Also a rare on-site shot of
the view from the sighting location.

2.      La Madera, NM, 1964 - a report of an object similar to that
observed at Socorro.

3.      Caldwell KS, 1965 - Police officers observe enormous
�Levelland class� elliptical object after radar tracking by
weather service.

A new Catalog of Evidential Cases has been added, containing
multiple witness cases with physical, medical, or photographic
evidence or from which measurements have been derived. ("10 best
case" devotees will find material here of use).

New categories have been added to the Correlated Case Catalog:
Levelland and Socorro class �ellipse�.

The Project 1947 Catalog Of Electromagnetic Effects From UFOs
has been updated. There are now 513 cases of effects from UFOs
on vehicles, radio, television, and other apparent electrodynamic
and electrostatic effects available from the site (approximately
100 more than at the last release). Some of the cases are from the
BUFORA Vehicle Interference Catalog, which is currently being
added to the catalog database.

Thanks as always for visiting The Temporal Doorway!

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/library.htm
------







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                    Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs

From: John Rimmer <j_rimmer@library.croydon.gov.uk>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 13:17:07 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:38:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs

Just a reminder that the P.L.A. Driftwood Organization is still
around and keeping an eye on things.

Before people get too worked up about John Harney's "Migraine
Hypothesis" I suggest they re-read the paragraph towards the end
of the article in Magonia ETH Bulletin which states:

>I am not suggesting that all, or most, close-encounter reports
>have anything to do with migraine. I have no time for catch-all
>explanations which can be force-fitted to any case that comes to
>hand. There are many rational explanations to UFO reports and I
>thing that this one should be added to the list.

Mark Cashman suggests that if Harney's proposal has any validity
we should "expect the migraine literature to be replete with
complex, structured visual hallucinations". I am not familar with
the migraine literature - I do not know indeed if there is a
great deal of it. Certainly Sacks' book is the only popular
account accessible to the layman. However, just how much of the
UFO literature is actually "replete" with structured craft? There
certainly are plently of such accounts, but there are probably
more which sound like the "freewheeling states of hallucinotis,
illusion or dreaming" that Sacks talks about.

I find it difficult to believe that Cashman has not come across
UFO close encounter reports where the percipients have heard
humming and buzzing noises. I agree that the silent "Oz Factor"
is a feature of many accounts, but in many others percipients are
first alerted that something odd is going on by "whirring
sounds", "a noise like a like a swarm of bees", etc, etc.

Harney puts forward migraine as a possible causative factor which
should be considered when other mundane explanations do not fit
the bill, it is *not* proposed as an explanation for *all* close
encounter narratives. Those familiar with the case might like to
consider that it could have been a causative factor in Elsie
Oakensen's experiences.

In the meantime I suggest that Mark Cashman and others read
Sacks' book before taking this argument further.

John Rimmer
Magonia Online, www.magonia.demon.co.uk








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                     P-1947 Re: Fred Whiting on Roswell

From: Larry Clark <lclark@IBM.NET>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:51:41 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:15:03 -0400
Subject: P-1947 Re: Fred Whiting on Roswell

Even way back when the tape was a known item of the debris (at
least of the stuff photographed:

. Regarding Roswell in the Schentady Union Star / 1947:

July 9: Army, Navy Launch Campaign to Halt 'Flying Disc' Rumors
Mentions aftermath of Roswell reports and statements by Haught &
Ramey. Also mentioned : "Those who saw the object said it had a
flowered paper tape around it bearing the initials 'D.P.'."







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                     C-E: The Great Wave: October, 1973

From: Kenny Young <task@FUSE.NET>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 00:40:02 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:03:58 -0400
Subject: C-E: The Great Wave: October, 1973

Web-Project planned - assistance requested

This message is to announce the creation of a new website which
will be introduced on October 1, 1998, giving - for the first
time - graphic information regarding one of the most sensational
and mysterious UFO events of this century. The site will be a
compilation of material from a widespread network of researchers,
investigators and organizational concerns, devoted to celebrating
the 25th anniversary of "The Great Wave" of October, 1973.

This web-site will track the unusual low-level UFO sightings and
landings, sonic disruptions, crop circle reports, cattle
mutilations and UFO-occupant reports which were generated across
Ohio, Kentucky and Indiana during this bizarre time period from
October 4 through October 27, when such unusual circumstances
were afoot that to this day remain baffling.

The material utilized at this site will be contributed from a
vast number independent researchers and organisations, some of
whom have undertaken localized 'LIBRARY INVESTIGATIONS' to
retrieve microfilm/newspaper articles from their respective
cities.

Although some coordination with certain researchers has already
been underway, this effort will still require more extensive
planning and cooperation so that the data is comprehensive and
coverage will be... hopefully... unprecedented.

By networking with other researchers via the internet forum, we
are again realizing the widespread nature of the UFO situation
during October of 1973, the last of the great UFO waves.

In review of the information already available, the details are
mind boggling. How much more can we yet learn from this event?
Just imagine if an event of this magnitude took place in our
present day of the internet and the video camera.

All researchers are encouraged to conduct a library investigation
within their areas to retrieve UFO related data from October of
1973. The material may be comprised of report forms and most
enjoyably... newspaper articles from within this time frame. Full
credit will be given to those researchers for their submissions
to this website.

If you could assist with this project, please send e-mail to the
address listed on this message. Feel free to partake!

Sincerely,
KENNY YOUNG
task@fuse.net
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/task/






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   Jul > Jul 21

                            Skywatch: Marree Man

From: Skywatch International <jhickman@itlnet.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:51:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:28:54 -0400
Subject: Skywatch: Marree Man



-----Original Message-----
From: D Harrison <ufoicq@fan.net.au>
To: skypost@unix.ltlb.com <skypost@unix.ltlb.com>
Date: Monday, July 20, 1998 9:03 AM
Subject: Marree Man


ufoicq@fan.net.au
Aboriginal Man Marree

Well folks it seems the  Marree man will go down has an
Aussie 'Who Dunit?'

Channel 9 Ray Martin 6.30 Report:

Channel 9 went out to  Marree and did there own investigation
into the how the Marree man got there.

This is what I could make of their report:


1.They found pegs, marking out where to plough the soil.

2. The publican, who did see a truck with farm equipment going
through town but thought nothing of it, has trucks passing by
all the time.

3. The Locals are absolutely chuffed [thrilled to pieces -ebk]
and say, it's the best thing to have happened to the town, the
tourists are flocking in.

4. The Local pilot is making a killing with scenic flights. They
say that he has the most to gain hummm?

5. It was a rumour that there are 2 land claims both being  2
separate Aboriginal Tribes in the area of the drawing.

6. It is said that there is going to be a water pipe line laid
through the land.

7. Now the Locals want to keep the drawing, they say it has put
their little town on the world map, and they are willing to
maintain it.

8. The Locals think a 'Mad Artist' did it and would like to buy
him a beer.



SUNDAY Mail July 19.
Half a page story/ full colour picture "WOW"

1. The Marree man was first spotted by a freelance pilot on his
way from Coober Pedy to Marree on 26 June.

2. Mr. Smith was puzzled has to why he had not been told of the
new tourist attraction but said, "when I went into Marree the
locals didn't seem to be interested."

3. Then the a fax was sent to a business in Marree describing the
drawing, it claimed the drawing to be twice the size of the
largest drawing in Peru and 24 times larger than the Chalk Hill
carving.

4. Then the bottle was found containing a note with the words
"Stuart's Giant" an American flag and a reference to the US
Branch Davidian cult.

5. Police say it has finger, toes, eyes , ears, beard, genitals.

6. Estimated to have been there from 4 to 8 weeks.

7. It was made by some kind of implement, perhaps a plough or a
ripper, depth 20 to 30cm into the earth.

8. Mike Durdett a surveyor said "whoever did it was a
professional, it was quite an exercise."

9. The perimeter would be 15km or so.

10. Whoever created it has sparked a controversy between South
Australian Aborigines and Tourism Operators.

11. Outback Manager for SA Tourism Commission Mr. Andrew Beare
said he hopes whoever did it owns up so he can "shout them a slab
of beer - we love it".

12. Flights have increased over the site but the Aborigines have
taken legal advice to stop the flights.

13. The Dieri people want the figure erased, stating the drawing
was exploiting the Dreaming of the people and it had caused them
great harm.

14. South Australian Aboriginal Affairs chef executive David
Rathmann branded the image "Graffiti" and our Environment
Minister, Dorothy Kotz, attacked the etching as "Environmental
Vandalism".

Well there you have it, if I DUNIT, I wouldn't own up. Would
you? They're out for his/her blood.



***************************
SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL INC.
(A Non-Profit Organization)









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   Jul > Jul 21

                               Re: Marree Man

From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:56:00 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:56:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Marree Man


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/state/4256655.htm

1jul98


THE mystery of the Marree Man deepened yesterday with the
arrival of another anonymous fax at The Advertiser.

The fax, headed "Update No.2", said that the site for Marree
Man, or Stuart's Giant, as it is also called, was chosen because
of its unique characteristics.

"It is uniquely sited to deliver a world class tourist
attraction to SA in its flatness, uniform appearance, lack of
vegetation and, in particular, the presence throughout the
plateau of white chalk just 6" beneath the brown soil," the fax
says.

"If the soil is scraped away in the area currently marked by the
figure, a dramatic white figure of considerably greater
visibility will be created."

A photograph sent to The Advertiser has been outlined in white
to show how the figure - which has been ploughed into soil 60km
west of Marree - may appear if the white chalk were exposed. A
small pit dug near the figure which contained a note and an
American flag in a bottle, was dug to a depth to show the chalk
layer beneath the soil.

The fax extols the tourism benefits which could be gained from
the figure if the soil was removed to show the white chalk.

"The international attention achieved by the existing sepia
figure gives a mere taste of the interest that would be gained
by a white chalk carving of this scale," the fax says.

It says that funding to scrape the soil from the figure could be
provided through either the private or government sector, or
through a public subscription.

It also says local Aborigines could benefit through the charging
of ground access fees.

Official investigations into who created the figure are continuing.







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                              Marree Man Photo

From: Doc Barry in Phoenix <authority@webtv.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 07:39:48 -0700 (MST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 11:09:46 -0400
Subject: Marree Man Photo

For an enlarged photo, taken from the air, of the two and
one-half mile long desert drawing, which is the world's largest
artwork (five times larger than the largest Peru drawings), go
to:

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/5518/abman400.html

Doc Barry
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate
/5518/







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                    Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:08:44 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 11:13:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs

> Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 13:17:07 +0100
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> From: John Rimmer <j_rimmer@library.croydon.gov.uk>
> Subject: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs

> Harney puts forward migraine as a possible causative factor which
> should be considered when other mundane explanations do not fit
> the bill, it is *not* proposed as an explanation for *all* close
> encounter narratives. Those familiar with the case might like to
> consider that it could have been a causative factor in Elsie
> Oakensen's experiences.

> In the meantime I suggest that Mark Cashman and others read
> Sacks' book before taking this argument further.

I already made the point that this hypothesis cannot be
considered because it does not provide a discriminator, and that
it also shows no reason to be considered an explanation of UFOs
since the migrane case cited, presumably the best (i.e. closest
to the UFO experience) has no UFO content, and since the author
of the hypothesis presents no support for the existence of a
continuum between regular migranes and "close encounter
migranes".

It is _not_ my objection that all close encounters cannot be
explained by the migrane hypothesis, it is that the author of the
hypothesis has given us no reason to believe that _any_ are.
Perhaps Mr. Rimmer fails to understand that it is required as
part of science that the proposer of a hypothesis demonstrate a
clear causal connection between their proposal and the
observation to be explained.

One might equally well use tintinnus to explain UFOs, since it
causes odd noises to be heard. Of course one might actually also
consider that UFOs actually emit sounds. But that would be a use
of Ockham's Razor which would be unpleasant in this context.

Mr. Rimmer also misses the point that my message pointed out that
the burden falls on anti-OEH proponents to deal with why it
should be that a variety of completely unrelated physical,
optical, mental, and medical causes lead to a single result: the
UFO.

As for reading a book on migranes, why? I didn't read Corso's
book either, and as far as I can tell from the Magonia article,
Sacks' book has about as much relationship to UFOs as Corso's
did.

Remember, I don't have to disprove the hypothesis (though I did),
the proponent must prove it. That's science.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/library.htm
------







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                    Re: Mr. Werner Walter And His Reality

From: Werner Walter <113236.1604@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 16:29:33 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 01:33:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Mr. Werner Walter And His Reality

Hi List,

I=B4m very afraid to seen Joachim Koch=B4s message here in my mail.
I big oops come about my mouth. =3D)

I=B4m very astouned because Joachim Koch was never my
correspondent-partner and has never received my monthly CENAP
REPORT. I has never meet him on a personal base. From that sight
of view her bring up strong calibers agins me.

I=B4m a private UFO-researcher with a great deal of personal
experience won through own research-activitys here and abroad.
I=B4m not a UFO-theorist but a practical working man with the
background which you can easy call "learning by doing". Now I=B4m
has 25 years of work (self-financed work) on my humble back...
;)

I has built up one of the greatest archives here in Germany and
read all important UFO-papers and books on a international level
also the book of Joachim Koch about self-styled kiddish corn
circle for a personal contact to beings from outer space. But
thats another matter...

I=B4m estimates me not as the main and most important debunker
here in Germany - thats a matter which has built up the medias.
One for shure: I=B4m only a very interessted UFO-researcher and
case-investigator with a great background knowledge about the
whole affair. Shure is: The most cases find a naturally or
ordinary explanations - thats it. It is not my problem when
other UFO-peoples are to enthusiastic and blened by own concepts
and X-file-like ideas.

In the medias I shown up only that bad work of UFOlogyst here
which was from this groups or individuals is self produced.
Again thats not my problem...

Shure is that I=B4m not found a evidence for a nut and bold UFO
but I think this "problem" is one with which the most members on
this list has to fight. Or? :)

I and my fried Rudolf Henke has worked hard on the
Belgium-UFO-weave and we have published a bookled called "UFOs
2000 - Die Eskalation" - based on the original SOBEPS-report
which is very interessting in the case of desorganisation. This
desorganisation has bring up the factor desorientation. And
based of this we has found many errors in the original
SOBEPS-report - thats all. Everyone which can read should read
my arguments - Joachim Koch has never ordered the bookled but
bring up the big cry. I=B4m wonder... - but this is the sytle of
attacks to me here in Germany. Nobody known correct my work but
all cry up about this. I=B4m not shure but is this the right
way??? Yes few sightings were ULs (which self SOBEPS has to
say!) but not all. Again: Read the paper and make not up
incorrect statements. Alone on the base because I=B4m self do this
not and collect my arguments on the base...

Shure is also that I=B4m not everybodys darling because I often
find the hidden stinky corpses in the basement of the arguments
from the self-declared UFO-enthusiasts and say it loud. Thats
the "major damage" in the credibility of few big names in the
german scene. I can=B4t not support the falsh pictures which are
builted around few personalitys.

Greeting from Germany

Werner






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   Jul > Jul 22

                 11th Annual 'The UFO Experience' Conference

From: John White <JWhite8011@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 19:04:36 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 01:53:34 -0400
Subject: 11th Annual 'The UFO Experience' Conference


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT

        John White=09
        60 Pound Ridge Road
        Cheshire, CT 06410  =95  USA
        Tel 203-272-2151  =95  Fax 203-250-0501



UFO CONFERENCE TO FEATURE APOLLO 14 ASTRONAUT EDGAR MITCHELL

The sixth man on the moon, Apollo 14 astronaut Edgar D. Mitchell,
will be the featured speaker among a dozen UFO investigators
discussing the latest developments in ufology at the 11th annual
international conference on "The UFO Experience" on October
10-11, 1998 at the Holiday Inn in North Haven, Connecticut, USA.


The conference will offer a comprehensive look at the UFO
phenomenon.  Eminent researchers and experiencers from around the
U.S. and Europe will present their findings and considered
opinions about what UFOs are, where they come from, why they are
here, and what the government knows about it and why it is
covering up.
In February 1971, Mitchell became the sixth man to walk on the
moon.  He holds a doctorate in aeronautics and astronautics from
Massachusetts Institute of Technology.  On Saturday night,
October 11, he will discuss "Alien Presence=97Yes or No?," giving
an account of his personal investigations into the existence of
extraterrestrial life forms and the evidence for alien visitation
to Earth.

Other speakers on the program are:

Dan Brookes and John Dorazio, Connecticut ufologists who will
discuss "UFOs in Connecticut=97A Grassroots Investigation."
Brookes and Dorazio are cofounders of the UFO Research and Study
Organization (UFORSO), a Connecticut-based public membership
group which investigates UFO reports and actively searches for
UFOs.

Michael Hesemann, a ufologist and cultural anthropologist from
Germany, will speak on "UFOs=97The Secret History."  His
presentation will discuss the government-military involvement
with UFOs from the 1940s to the present. Hesemann is coauthor of
Beyond Roswell, a recently published investigation of the
so-called "alien autopsy" and other aspects of the famed 1947
Roswell, New Mexico, UFO crash and several other crashes which
are lesser known.

Linda Moulton Howe, M.S., an Emmy-winning television producer who
has investigated the phenomenon of animal mutilation and UFOs,
will speak on "Glimpses of Other Realities=971998 Update."  The
author of several documentaries and books on the subject,
including Strange Harvest and High Strangeness, Howe lives in
Pennsylvania.

Philip Imbrogno, M.S., a ufologist and coauthor of Night Siege:
The Hudson Valley UFO Mystery, will report on "Contact of the
Fifth Kind."  He contends there is a silent alien invasion under
way and the U.S. government knows of it.  He will present
evidence to demonstrate his claim.  A science educator in New
York state, Imbrogno holds a B.S. degree in astronomy, an M.S. in
science education and is a Ph.D. candidate.

Jack Kewaunee Lapseritis, M.S., author of the just-published book
The Psychic Sasquatch:  A UFO Connection, will discuss his
research into the Sasquatch people, popularly known as Bigfoot,
and their relation to UFOs.  Lapseritis, who claims to have had
20 years of personal contact with Sasquatch, is a social
scientist-anthropologist.  He lives in Arizona.

Joe Lewels, Ph.D., will discuss "Aliens or Angels:  The
Controversy Over the God Hypothesis."  Dr. Lewels' research with
more than 100 abductees leads him to conclude that UFOs and their
occupants have been responsible for most, if not all, world
religions, and their purpose today is to salvage human DNA before
the human species becomes extinct.  He was formerly a professor
of journalism and mass communications at University of Texas at
El Paso.

Michael Mannion, a New York City author, will discuss "Media
Manipulation and Public Perception of UFOs," based on his
just-published book, Project Mindshift, which looks at how public
opinion and public perception of the UFO phenomenon is influenced
by direct and by stealthy means.  Hollywood, television, science
and government, including covert government disinformation
operations, will be covered.

Derrel Sims, an "alien hunter" from Houston, Texas, will present
"Medical and Scientific Evidence of Alien Contact" gathered by
him over 34 years of research.  Slides, videotape and actual
physical objects apparently "alien" in nature will be shown,
along with a demonstration of Sims' discovery of a fluorescing
compound which is found on abductees after physical contact with
aliens.

Daved Rubien, state director of the Mutual UFO Network for Rhode
Island, will speak on "The ETs We Encounter Today."  His research
with abductees indicates there are many types of ETs beyond the
so-called "grays" which are often depicted on television and in
film.  He will describe them and their activities, as revealed
through his abduction research.

Robert Wood, Ph.D., a retired aerospace engineer-scientist, will
talk about "Cosmic Watergate:  New Evidence of Crashed UFOs
Recovered by the Government." Dr. Wood has researched a recently
leaked 1954 Special Operations Manual used to guide U.S. military
personnel in recovery and disposal of UFOs and their occupants.

John White, internationally known researcher of paranormal
phenomena and author of 15 books, will chair the conference.  His
books and articles have been published in nine languages.

A UFO photo exhibit will also be featured, along with the
speakers' books for autographing.

Begun in 1987 by John White, "The UFO Experience" is an annual
October conference offering a wide-ranging, balanced look at the
UFO phenomenon.
Presentations are given by eminent investigators and famous UFO
contactees and abductees, who share their personal experiences,
their research data, and their insights and considered opinions
about what UFOs are, where they come from, why they are here.
Attendees learn about the range of UFO encounters and theories,
how professional investigators conduct their investigations, and
how the public should handle UFO sightings for maximum
effectiveness in the ongoing search for answers.  The proceedings
of each year=92s program are available in audiotape and videotape
format, and a free brochure is available at the address below
which describes the lectures and the speakers.

The conference also offers a supportive setting for people to
"unburden" themselves if they feel they have had UFO experiences
but are afraid to talk about them.  People can share their UFO
experiences with others who are sympathetic and knowledgeable.
The conference offers contact with support groups who can provide
ongoing help for those trying to recover from unusual, difficult
and often terrifying experiences.  Others believe they are "Star
People" whose true home is not Earth but some other planet or
solar system.
Star People likewise find the conference helpful to them.

Admission is by registration only.  The registration fee is $125
until June 30, $145 until August 30 and $175 thereafter.  The fee
does not include lodging or meals.  To register or for further
information, write to Omega Communications, P. O. Box 2051,
Cheshire, Connecticut 06410-5051, USA.  Or visit the conference
web site at http://www.ufoexperience.com.  If space allows at
conference time, admission will be permitted at $90 per day or
$20 per event.
###








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   Jul > Jul 22

                             Re: Meier Pictures

From: The Duke of Mendoza - Peter Brookesmith <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 23:43:58 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:42:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Meier Pictures


With the compliments of the Duke of Mendoza:

>Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 11:06:15 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Sean Liddle - Quinte-Eco <ecocon@intranet.ca>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Meier Pictures

>>Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:34:42 +0200
>>From: Andy Dene - A.U.R.A. <aura@telekabel2.nl>
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Meier-Pictures

>Actually, Canada, the United States and Many other
>countries use .223 caliber weapons, NOT .22  Its almost
>the same diameter bullet as your standard groundhog
>killing kid gun, but has a much longer shell, with about
>5 times the amount of powder.

Couldn't resist this one. That above is true except that

(a) a crucial difference is the .223 is a jacketed round, while
.22 Long Rifle is a bare lead bullet (though it may be copper
washed); .22 WMR is a jacketed round, however, and is deadly - it
actually carries more kinetic energy than a .45 Colt ACP, and is
the preferred pistol round for Mossad terminators: as it happens,
I used to have an S&W Model 48 in that calibre;

(b) the Swiss Army's issue rifle is in an idiosyncratic, non-NATO
(Switzerland is not in NATO) calibre - 7.5mm. However, it ain't
no sniper's piece. Most of those are in 7.62mm, and the usual
standard of accuracy is a 4-in group at 600 yards.

I did consider freaking out the members of the Stoke Newington
Vegetarian Front on this list with a long discussion of calibres
and weapons suitable for the assassination of ufological frauds -
or anyone else, now I come to think of it. However, I felt this
might be liable to misunderstanding. But, first, no sane assassin
would think of using a .22LR for a hit job (a sniper, or anyone
else with any sense, also *practises* with the round they will
carry in the field, on the street, or wherever). Second, the
national sport in Switzerland is shooting, Swiss gun laws are
admirably liberal, and .22 weapons are easily acquired. Third,
the Meier groupies freely admit they have firearms (big deal,
it's SOP for Swiss households).

The key question is: did Meier report this "assassination
attempt" to the police?

No? Really? You amaze me.

best wishes
Pyrodex D. Martini-Action





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                      Re: Triangular UFOs over Belgium

From: The Duke of Mendoza - Peter Brookesmith <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:56:04 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:38:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Triangular UFOs over Belgium


With the compliments of the Duke of Mendoza:

>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Triangular UFOs over Belgium
>Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 11:53:17 -0400

>>Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 11:05:29 -0700
>>From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" <skytracker@geocities.com>
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Triangular UFOs over Belgium


>The 1989 Belgium UFO flap was debated on the List last year.  The
>debate turned out to be the usual: skeptics on one side, truth
>seekers on the other.

No argument with that, and it wasn't hard to predict. But if the
rest of this post is an example of "truth" as sought by
ufologists, then Serge is hereby appointed Archbishop of the
Church of St Ananias and the Latterday Martyrs of Ufodom. His
Most Reverence's administrative duties will include taking
confession from the Boy Bishop of Canby, reciting to him Biblical
passages on the virtues of humility, and ensuring that he puts on
a clean hair shirt every day. Bishop Jerome will return the favor
by giving Archbishop Salvolatile daily instruction in the ethics
of accurate reporting, and taking a measure of the Archbishop's
bullshit quotient twice a day, with powerful enemas to be
administered immediately should the reading exceed 3 parts per
million. You can look forward to a long course of treatment,
Serge.

I suggest Kyle looks up the discussion of the Belgian flap on the
Ufomind/UpDates Web archive (address below), where he will find
"truth" seekers inventing such items as supersonic balloons and
putting them into the mouths of skeptics. He will also find
Mendoza saying he thought the evidence for there being an actual
FT craft involved was inconclusive, and that little was proven
one way or the other, or words to that effect. And Kyle will also
be able to decide for himself who was most driven by their
beliefs, as opposed to the available evidence, and who not.

If skeptics "picked up their marbles and quietly went into silent
mode" - cringing away into crepuscular liminality, where no doubt
their souls murmur together in despair and self-loathing at the
place where the tides cross - there is now some doubt whether
"truth" seekers of the Archbishop's communion ever had any
marbles at all.

Bishop Jerome belongs to an altogether higher church, of course,
where incense (sometimes used as a verb as well as a ritual
fragrance) and casuistry are much in vogue.

Yrs &c
Paymaster D. Manichee
Knight Commander & Revenant, Legions of the AntiChrist






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                    Re: Mr. Werner Walter And His Reality

From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 19:36:25 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:33:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Mr. Werner Walter And His Reality


>From: Joachim Koch <koch@wad.berlin.fido.de>
>Date: 20 Jul 98 12:12:00 +0000
>Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 22:23:28 -0400
>Subject: Mr. Werner Walter And His Reality

>>Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 16:05:13 -0700
>>From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich)
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Foo-Fighters--A German View

>>A recent exchange (slightly edited) from the Project 1947 List is
>>below.
>>===============================================================
>>Subject: Foo-Fighters: The German view
>>Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 16:20:22 -0400
>>From: Werner Walter <113236.1604@COMPUSERVE.COM>
>>To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

>>Hi List;

>>The foo fighter-scenario is very interessting for me as a German.
>>Fromtime to time I read short articles about this "objects" in the
>>UFO-press

><snip>

>>I'm now 25 years active here in Germany on the UFO-field as
>>researcher and case-investigator but never found a man which
>>has reported me a foo fighter-sighting - on the other side few
>>people come up which has phantastic storys about their works on
>>the socalled Nazi-saucer (but these men were all crackpots).

>>Werner

>>============================================

>Hello Errol, Hello List,

>Though I know that "personalities" are not quite the topic of this
>list, I think I should inform you that two individuals have shown up
>here recently who had caused very much damage to a greater public in
>their fields of activity.

>I know that everyone has his right to take part in this list and that
>it is also the right of everyone here to express controversial
>opinions. I attended this list since a long time and have learned a
>lot from what was presented here. I  think, for various reasons, at
>least you should know with whom you are dealing here because not many
>of you know about Mr. Werner Walter (Germany) and Mr. Robert Irving
>(UK).

>This is meant not to start a discussion but to share information.

>                                -.-.-.-

>Mr. Werner Walter estimates himself to be the main and most
>important debunker of  Germany. He has only one idol: Mr. Phil
>Klass.

<Big Snip>

Be that as it may, the original topic was "Foo-Fighters" and more
specifically the seeming lack of foo-fighters reported by the
Luftewaffe aircrews.  We would welcome any information you have
on the subject.

The Project 1947 List is a research vehicle not a debating
society--but sometimes we have clashes, also.  However,
members are told to check their beliefs at the door; we don't
care as long as you do credible research.  Werner Walter is
doing such research on foo-fighters in the Bundesarchiv.  If
others have done archive research or interviewed aircrews, we
would like to hear about it.

If so, perhaps to the way to show Hr. Werner up is to demonstrate
reliable German "foo-fighter" accounts and credible research
already done in this area by German researchers.

--
Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.iufog.org/project1947/
P. O. Box 391, Canterbury, CT 06331, USA
Telephone: (860) 546-9135








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   Jul > Jul 22

                    Re: Mr. Werner Walter And His Reality

From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:20:39 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:56:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Mr. Werner Walter And His Reality


>Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 16:29:33 -0400
>From: Werner Walter <113236.1604@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Mr. Werner Walter And His Reality
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

I have to sympathize with Werner, as it would seem that Mr.
Joachim Koch has some hidden agenda regarding UFO research in
Germany.

I do not consider Joachim to be a reliable source for the
following reason:

Despite repeated requests for facts and detail around 2 alleged
crash/retrievals in the Southern Africa region, he has failed to
respond.

I challenged him on this list to enlarge on his claims of
"further information", but have as yet seen nothing further,
except stunning silence.

Here is what Cynthia Hind has to say about the 2 incidents:

"Dear Jakes,  Thanks for your e-mail.  As far as I am concerned,
the alleged UFO crash on the South African/Botswana Border was
not a UFO: it was the testing of an advanced weapon (probably,
laser) which landed where it should not have been! The
Leribe/Lesotho crash was a total scam from beginning to end as
Michael Hesemann, one of the top investigators from Germany,
actually went to Leribe with Kenny MacKinnon of SAUFORA (based
in Johannesburg). None of the people supposedly involved were
traceable, nor were any of the South African Intelligence
Officers named. I do edit a small magazine called UFO AFRINEWS
which explains both cases in detail.  I am pretty certain that
in these two incidents,  the whole story, faked documents etc.
were engineered by James van Gruenen(sic), a young man who was
involved with UFOs from the age of 16 when he joined MUFON.

It is a long and complicated story but I have gone into it very
thoroughly in UFO AFRINEWS No 3(May 1990), No. 4 (March 1991)
and No. 5 (January 1992)  And the Lesotho story is in No 14
(January 1996). "

<snip>

"I have veritable proof of the hoaxing from fairly high-up
personages, and yet, the public and some investigators and
magazines, persist in believing that UFOs crashed in both of
these places.  What can one do?

All the best,  Cynthia Hind."

I hope to receive copies of Cynthia's articles soon, and then
perhaps Mr. Koch and I can have a little debate regarding the
incidents?

regards



Jakes E. Louw
louwje@telkom.co.za






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   Jul > Jul 22

                Re: Roswell Witnesses Interviewed By Houston

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 07:21:07 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:57:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Roswell Witnesses Interviewed By Houston

This is why I am still interested in Roswell.

There are far too many witnesses, many just now finally getting
the courage to come forward or speaking reluctantly after being
tracked down by investigators, for absolutely nothing to have
happened.

Men were transferred abruptly, others were silenced by threats.
This for a Mogul balloon?  That just does not make sense.

Even if a "hot rod" (a plane carrying a nuke) had crashed it
would not justify the level of coverup that we see in this case.

No, I am fairly well convinced that SOMETHING very out of the
ordinary happened.  The question is what?  And why does the
coverup continue?

Bob








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                    Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs

From: RobIrving@aol.com
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:21:12 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:34:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs


>  Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs
>  From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>  Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:08:44 -0400
>  To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

Mark,

>  > In the meantime I suggest that Mark Cashman and others read
>  > Sacks' book before taking this argument further.

>  I already made the point that this hypothesis cannot be
>  considered because it does not provide a discriminator, and that
>  it also shows no reason to be considered an explanation of UFOs
>  since the migrane case cited, presumably the best (i.e. closest
>  to the UFO experience) has no UFO content, and since the author
>  of the hypothesis presents no support for the existence of a
>  continuum between regular migranes and "close encounter
>  migranes".

Firstly, I have no opinion on whether migraines account for
UFO-type experiences (I've never had migraines), but it seems
curious that you appear to so anxious to dismiss the idea without
bothering to read up on it.

It may interest you to know that in his book 'The Man Who Mistook
His Wife For A Hat' Sacks cites earlier studies (Singer 1958)
with regard to the visions of St Hildegard.  I seem to recall
that representations of these visions taken from her C12th
manuscript Scivas have cropped up in UFO literature.

Singer writes: 'In all a prominent feature is a point or a group
of points of light, which shimmer and move, usually in a
wave-like manner, and are most often interpreted as stars or
flaming eyes. In quite a number of cases one light, larger than
the rest exhibits a series of concentric circular figures of
wavering form...'

St Hildegard writes: 'The visions which I saw beheld neither in
sleep, nor in dreams, nor in madness, nor with my carnal eyes,
nor with the ears of the flesh, nor in hidden places; but wakeful
and alert...'

Rob








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                            Alfred's Odd Ode #258

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 07:10:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:08:27 -0400
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #258

Apology to MW #258 (For July 22, 1998)

A pox upon Jack Schulman, may he writhe in cyber hell; may his
failure be complete for all the lies that he would sell. Afflict
him with a fungus, let his crops be et by bugs -- have him
waylaid by some highwayman, have him set upon by thugs. Make his
family, then, disown him. Make them turn in raw disgust. Make
him sorry he conspired to betray the public trust. Make him wear
a bramble shirt; make him wander without shoes; a man without a
country, make him outcast -- make him lose!

Make him pay a reparation for the trouble that he caused! Make
him pay for his disturbance to the peace. Make him libel for the
bald faced lies he told to sell his  business. He's the _reason_
for the FOG that just goes on without surcease!

Afflict him with diseases like Jehovah brought on Job. Fevers,
boils, and blisters, or a neural toxin toad. Let vermin claim
his body with a brand new kind of lice. Let him feed upon their
droppings as he eats his sour rice. I hope remaining hair falls
out -- smells bad behind his ears -- hope his business goes all
wacky, and his bills are in arrears. He shouldn't be allowed
outside. We should put him in a cell. We should feed him bread
and water -- make him answer John Ford's bells. Make him wait on
Stanton Friedman, make him shine my dog dirt shoes, make him
tell it on the Jeff Rense show-- make him REALLY sing the blues.

Make him pay a reparation for the trouble that he caused! Make
him pay for his disturbance to the peace. Make him libel for the
bald faced lies he told to sell his  business. He's the _reason_
for the FOG that just goes on without surcease!

I can hope that he's abducted, and they break the probe clean
off! I can hope that they experiment -- make him turn his head
and cough. I can hope he lives the nightmares that he made some
folks live through when they took him at his word that all the
things he said were true. I can hope he feels nothing but the
wages of despair. I can hope he'll get comeuppance, Bubba's
bitch -- that he'd so dare!  I can hope this liar Schulman has a
crack inside his shell, but failing that -- eats shit and dies,
then goes right straight to hell.

Make him pay a reparation for the trouble that he caused! Make
him pay for his disturbance to the peace. Make him libel for the
bald faced lies he told to sell his  business. He's the _reason_
for the FOG that just goes on without surcease!

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

Jack Schulman strongly implied that _his_ computers were kissed
by the cosmic technology of  alien beings from another world.
I'm sure he would define it as a novel marketing ploy. Our
society _will_ allow him to get by with it. John Ford will slide
further into madness. Who _is_ the real criminal?

You see what I mean? You see how this works? You see how the
atmosphere is just a little harder to peer through? You see how
the mud sucks a little harder at your shoes? Do you feel, a
little stronger now, that conditioning imperative to give up
_looking_ up?  And you feel a little foolish for being taken in
-- beginning to think that there might be something to this
Trans-capacitor foolishness? Burned again -- and now _two_
(maybe three) times shy?

It's all part of the plan for our arbitrary and convenient
manipulation! The money does its talking, and the bullshit (its
job done) does its usual walking.

And he will likely walk away from this a little _richer_ for his
trouble, like the vast majority of his ilk do . . . Michael
Milken, Ivan Boesky, and the Clan Bush relieved frail granny
ladies of billions of their precious dollars, but walk
unabashedly free.

But that's our culture for ya'. Jerk a human being back and
forth across the line of credulity often enough, and she won't
know what to think. Schulman has been a _useful_ tool.

I believe anyone who bought a computer from this man has grounds
for a full refund PLUS damages. If I owned one, I'd want _my_
money back! I think he defrauded the public to sell his
unremarkable, lackluster, and very ordinary product -- I would
have thought he had broken the law. Hah. No, he didn't BREAK the
law. But he provided a wonderful example of why, many times, the
law gets broken!

Restore John Ford!

--
Explore the Alien View? <Updated 18 July>

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake.







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   Jul > Jul 22

                     Astronaut Alan Shepard Passes Away

From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:59:05 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:59:05 -0400
Subject: Astronaut Alan Shepard Passes Away

According to CNN [at 10:48 EST] Astronaut Rear-Admiral Alan
Shepard, the first American in space, has died at the age of 74.
He had suffered from Leukemia for the past couple of years

He spent 11 minutes in the first manned sub-orbital Mercury
flight and later set foot on the Moon as a member of the Apollo
Project, chipping the first golf shot there.

ebk







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                        P-1947: Death of Alan Shepard

From: Wendy Connors <wendy.connors@MCI2000.COM>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:56:47 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:14:56 -0400
Subject: P-1947: Death of Alan Shepard

God's speed Alan Shepard - your newest journey has begun. I thank
you for your courage and taking the first step for all mankind.

Wendy Connors





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                    Re: TV Documentaries On Greer's Ideas

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:25:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:25:39 -0400
Subject: Re: TV Documentaries On Greer's Ideas


>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
>Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 03:47:31 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Upcoming TV Documentaries On Greer's Ideas

>>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 06:01:11 +0200
>>Subject: Upcoming TV Documentaries Based On Steven Greer's Ideas

>>American Artists Film Corporation Announces Agreement with
>>Dr. Steven M. Greer

>>PR Newswire - July 16, 1998 19:16

IT would appear that we are in for more

'Entertainment Masquerading As Research'....

(there's a phrase we should post in every review of UFO
documentaries, etc.

You heard it here first, folks!)






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                    Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 11:30:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:17:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs


>Subject: Why Migranes Don'T Explain UFOs
>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 23:01:54 -0400
>To: updates@globalserve.net

>The hypothesis advanced in the recently posted Magonia claims
>that some close encounters may be the result of migrane or
>migrane-like phenomena, in keeping with the theory that UFOs are
>accounted for by the Misperception, Hallucination, and Hoax
>Hypothesis (MHH).

>The problem with the hypothesis is that the presented migrane
>case and the comparison UFO cases differ in significant aspects:

<snip>

I can hardly add anything to Mark Cashman's "trenchant
discussion, some might say 'destruction'" of the MUH (Migraine
UFO Hypothesis).

(Historical note: the phrase "trenchant discusion, some might
say 'destruction' "was used by a skeptic to refer to a paper I
wrote about 10 years ago which was published in Appled Optics
magazine.) However, I would like to say that my mother back in
th 50's had migraine headaches, yet never once referred to a
close encounter type experience or a "sighting "of anything,
even though she knew that her mother had, in fact, claimed to
have seen not one, but two flying saucers in 1947.Grandma was
not having a headache at the time of her sighting in Greenfield,
Mass. Instead she was outside hanging up the laundry. She saw
two, round shiny objects from from the east and make a "right
angle turn"to the north. (A sighting from Greenfield is listed
in Bloecher's 1947 Wave book... reported by someone else)

>The author then draws a tenuous analogy between a crisp
>description of a UFO and another variant of a migrane
>"zig-zag"lines perceived as part of the migraine scotomata.
>Anyone with experience of this phenomenon knows that it is
>similar to enlarging the blind spot to slowly cover from the
>entire eye, and cannot be confused with "an object on a patch of
>soil in the garden which was wine red in colour and about the
>size of a drinks tray [which] remained on the ground for a few
>.minutes, then suddenly...took off, like a coin being
>flipped, and spun up into the air, revealing its underside with
>a series of reinforcements on the rim [and] then seemed to head
>for the window [where it] gave out a blue flash".

I have not had migraine headaches. However, I have had
"optical migraine"experiences.Nothing at all like a
"close encounter"or a "sighting".My mother told me that her
father also had them.... what he called "the z's"where images
took on a zigzag shape.

I must say the first time it happened I was startled and
worried. A tiny "light"came on at one point in my visual field
and then this "light"grew in size.If I could characterise a
color it was pale yellow, and it OVERLAYED everything a looked
at. My immediate reaction was to lose my eyes to see if I was
seeing a light from somewhere....although I couldn't imagine
where.....since I was inside my house at the time. The "give
away" that this wasn't some weird UFO sighting was that when I
closed my eyes and turned my eyeballs back and forth it was
STILL THERE!. (Of course, I must admit that the idea of a UFO
sighting never even crossed my mind. (Of course) the MHH hadn't
been invented yet, so I wasn't prepared to concentrate on
UFO-like aspects of this "experience.")

This "light"or "glow"grew to nearly cover my field of view and
then faded. This took a "long time", maybe a minute (you know,
like the really good UFO sightings), during which I was in a
state of....apprehension, shall we say...wondering if I was
going blind. After it was all over my vision was normal.At no t
me had I felt any pain.

That was some 20 years ago.Since then I had a couple of episodes
of the loss of central vision with a wierd zig-zag shaped
"pattern"of faint "light" in my eyes that grows from the central
vision outwards toward one side of my field of view.This
happened once when I was recovering from sedation in a hospital.

Believe me, it is weird when suddenly you can't see "straight
ahead."Try reading words on a page when you can see the
letter(s) at the beginning and at the end of a word...b  t n  t
t e  le  rs i  t  e mi  e. (for those of you who can't decode
optical migraine "visions", the words are "but not the letters
in the middle")

Anyway, I appreciate the inventor - some might say perpetrator -
of the MHH for giving me the opportunity to place my UMO
(unidentified migraine object) on the record.
................................................................

>Now, science requires the following:

>1.Observe something which needs explaining (the observation).

>2.Formulate a mechanism which explains it (the hypothesis).

This is what I would call the creation of Candidate Explanatory
Hypotheses (CEP) based on the rough comparison of th
characteristics reported for the "UFO"and the known
characteristics of some natural or manmade phenpomena

>3.Determine characteristics which differentiate an observation
>consistent with the hypothesis from one which is inconsistent
>with the hypothesis (the differentiator).

Make an accurate comparison between reported characteristics
and those of the CEP.

> 4.Formulate an
>experiment or an observation which will identify if the
>differentiator is present.

Try to narrow down on the best-fitting CEP.

>5.Perform the experiment or observation.

Determine which is the best CEP or if all fail upon careful
analysis (skeptics fail at this step)

>6.Record and publish the results for comment and attempted
>reproduction by others. If the differentiator is confirmed, then
.>the hypothesis may be considered correct, otherwise it is
>considered incorrect.

>The author of the Magonia article put forward 1 and 2, but fails
>to perform 3, 4, and 5. That being the case, 6 is moot, and the
>Magonia article is not science. It is no better than what many
>call "pseudoscience". In fact, the contrast of the MHH
>explanations with science is clear, since MHH explanations seem
>to operate as follows:>

>1. Select an isolated aspect of the UFO phenomenon. Ignore all
>.of the rest of the data. Ignore any cross phenomenon patterns.

typical skeptic/debunker "trick"

>2. Find any natural, medical or optical phenomenon that bears
>even a tiny resemblance to the isolated aspect.

Create CEP which have only one characteristic (or none?) in
common with the reported UFO.This greatly enlarges the number of
"possible"explanations - consistent with Debunker Rule #2 below

>3. Claim that the vague resemblance demonstrates that the
>explanation must be true for at least some subset of UFO
>reports.

>4. Do not provide any discriminator. Require opponents to do so.
>Evade any discriminators or results which tend to discredit the
>explanation.

Yes.... skeptics leave it up to "believers"to apply the
scientific method to their hypotheses  (as I have done with
Menzel's explanations in my "Still In Default"paper)

>5. If any explanation is discredited, claim it applies to some
>other case, or that some variation on the explanation works, or
>switch to a completely different explanation and maintain that
t>he original explanation was never intended to apply to the
>specific case, but that some other one does, and that the
>proposed explanation applies to other cases.

>The weakest part of these sort of "explanations"is the need to
>have a wide variety of physical, optical, psychological and
>medical phenomena produce an observable result which has a
>fairly uniform appearance and behavior with widespread patterns
>across demographic and cultural groups (not to mention
>photographs, physical traces, and medical traces, which are also
>reasonably uniform). Why should migranes, mirages, delusions,
>and hoaxes all produce UFOs - and, more importantly, the same
>kind of UFOs? The obvious answer is - they don't. We'll have to
l>ook deeper than the superficial MHH for answers to UFOs.

It should be evident from the above discussion that Mark Cashman
is one of the clearest thinkers in this UFO 'business'. In
outlining the scientific method and then comparing it with what
the skeptics do he has presented in detail what I have claimed
for years: "skeptics fail to test their hypotheses".

There is not much I could add to what Cashman has written except
I would add the following to his second list:

5b) If the first explanation seems unconvincing (or you get
minor complaints from the "straight"scientific community) then
propose another.

6) (Maccabee's Second Rule of Debunking:) the more explanations
proposed the more likely it is that the sighting can be
explained and the more convincing will it appear to the outside
world that the sighting can be or has been  explained.

(Note:  Maccabee's First Rule of Debunking: any explanation is
better than none. Naturally, the application of the first rule
allows the debunker to create at least one explanation, no
matter how "hokey", i.e., no matter how tenuous is the
connection between the observed phenomenon and the proposed CEP.

The second rule (above) allows for the creation of explanations
galore, and they pop up like mushrooms in the rain. As Mark well
knows, the first Grand Applicator of these rules... some 25
years before I formulated them.... was Dr. Donald Menzel who, in
his later and wiser years, made a list of possible UFOs which
included, if I recall correctly, dust in the atmosphere,
lightning, tornados, bugs... you name it. _Anything_ could be a
UFO. PJK has also applied these rules on occasion. And,
apparently the MHH author is also aware of them.)








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                     Goldin on the death of Alan Shepard

From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:58:57 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 23:47:09 -0400
Subject: Goldin on the death of Alan Shepard

Brian Welch
Headquarters, Washington DC                 July 22, 1998
(Phone: 202/358-1600)

RELEASE: 98-128

STATEMENT OF NASA ADMINISTRATOR DANIEL S. GOLDIN ON THE DEATH OF
ALAN SHEPARD

     The entire NASA family is deeply saddened by the passing of
Alan Shepard.  NASA has lost one of its greatest pioneers; America
has lost a shining star.

     Alan Shepard will be remembered, always, for his
accomplishments of the past: being one of the original seven
Mercury astronauts, for being the first American to fly in space,
and for being one of only 12 Americans ever to step on the Moon.
He should also be remembered as someone who, even in his final
days, never lost sight of the future.

     On behalf of the space program Alan Shepard helped launch,
and all those that space program has and will inspire, we send our
deepest condolences to his wife Louise, their children, and the
rest of the Shepard family.

     Alan Shepard lived to explore the heavens.  On this his final
journey, we wish him Godspeed.

                              - end -







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                            Team Atlantis Online

From: Michael Arbuthnot <arbuthnot@teamatlantis.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 02:59:18 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 23:47:02 -0400
Subject: Team Atlantis Online

Greetings:

I hope you will consider sharing this with your website visitors
and listmembers:

=====================================
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE - July 17, 1998
=====================================

Greetings From Team Atlantis (http://www.teamatlantis.com)...

From July 23-August 14, 1998, our underwater archaeological
research team will be traveling to the southern islands of Japan
as we create a broadcast television feature documentary
revealing recently discovered man-made monuments deep below the
surface of the Pacific Ocean. Amid colorful corals and
hammerhead sharks, our team will make history as humankind's
ancient past is revealed.

The underwater structures are located at a depth of
approximately 100 feet below the surface, with the main site
nearby the tiny island of Yonaguni, the southernmost member of
the Ryukyu archipelago:

Image Gallery:

http://www.teamatlantis.com/plan/gallery.html

The most current geological theories suggest that Earth's ocean
levels rose as much as 300 feet at the end of the last ice age.
Thus, the structures, if man-made, would have last been above
the surface at least 12,000 years ago. These may be the oldest
man-made structures ever discovered, predating the Great Pyramid
by all but the most unconventional estimates! The monuments are
simply incredible to behold and their existence raises serious
questions about the currently held notions of human history.

You can learn all about the expedition at:

http://www.teamatlantis.com Team Atlantis Online

Our team includes, but is not limited to:

Boris Said, producer of Team Atlantis: Yonaguni Expedition '98
(produced the Emmy Award winning "Mystery of the Sphinx")

Michael Arbuthnot, amateur underwater archaeologist and project
director for Team Atlantis.

Vince Pace, President of Pace Technologies, underwater lighting
and film experts (recently did underwater camera and lighting
for "Titanic")

Dr. Robert Schoch, Boston University geologist (appeared in
"Mystery of the Sphinx").

Dr. John T. Dorwin, Ball State University underwater
archaeologist

Dr. James J. Hurtak, president of the Academy for Future
Sciences

Dr. Masaaki Kimura, Marine Geologist with the University of the
Ryukyus, Okinawa.

Kihachiro Aratake, the scuba diver who discovered the underwater
monuments.

Images and team details are located here:

http://www.teamatlantis.com/plan/no_frames_team.html

Professional divers and underwater archaeologists from several
Japanese universities will accompany Team Atlantis on all dives.

Our sponsors include Multimedia Access Corporation, Mares Scuba
Gear, Sport Diver Magazine, DiveLink Scuba Comunnication, and
FishEye Underwater Camera Systems.

We're taking the latest technologies to maximize our research
capability and camera shots:

http://www.teamatlantis.com/plan/no_frames_technology.html

Further, we're expecting millions of website visitors during the
course of our adventure due to its extraordinary and universal
appeal. Our website will feature daily underwater photography
and audio updates as well as live and on-demand RealVideo feeds
streamed directly onto the Internet from underwater:

http://www.teamatlantis.com/plan/no_frames_multimedia.html

Sincerely,

Michael Arbuthnot
Project Director, Team Atlantis
arbuthnot@teamatlantis.com
http://www.teamatlantis.com
Team Atlantis Online






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                Re: Roswell Witnesses Interviewed By Houston

From: Donnie W. Shevlin <dshevlin@primary.net>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:58:48 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 23:47:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Roswell Witnesses Interviewed By Houston


> Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 07:21:07 -0400
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Roswell Witnesses Interviewed By Houston Chronicle

> This is why I am still interested in Roswell.

> There are far too many witnesses, many just now finally getting
> the courage to come forward or speaking reluctantly after being
> tracked down by investigators, for absolutely nothing to have
> happened.

> Men were transferred abruptly, others were silenced by threats.
> This for a Mogul balloon?  That just does not make sense.

> Even if a "hot rod" (a plane carrying a nuke) had crashed it
> would not justify the level of coverup that we see in this case.

> No, I am fairly well convinced that SOMETHING very out of the
> ordinary happened.  The question is what?  And why does the
> coverup continue?

> Bob

Agreed. Bob, although I have never posted arguments (difference
in opinions) that I have with you on occasion. I would like to
post one here that we agree.

The government has lied far to many times on this issue to be
coming clean anytime soon.

I don't have the Houston article at hand but what I recall, the
PR officer was given explicate instructions as to what to write
in that first news release. These gentlemen, base commander etc.,
knew what a weather balloon was and more than likely would be
able to identify one from a distance. Inflated, deflated, crashed
or even mauled by tigers, they know the difference between a
balloon and a crashed unknown vehicle.

Donnie






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                        Re: Philip Mantle 'Signs-off'

From: Sean Jones <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:52:52 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 23:47:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Philip Mantle 'Signs-off'


>Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:56:41 +0000
>From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Signing Off

>Dear Friends and Colleagues,

>I have to inform you that I am pulling out of ufology for an
>indefinate period. This has not been an easy decision to reach
>as I have been actively involved for nearly 20 years.

<snipped>

>Like I said at the beginning, this decision has not been reached
>lightly but it is something I have to do and my wife and
>family must come first.

Family IS!

>For those of you receiving this message that have become friends
>of mine as well as colleagues, I'd ask you not to become
>strangers just because I am no longer involved in ufology. I'll
>always have an interest in the subject no matter what.

>Yours Sincerely,

>Philip Mantle.

>20 July, l998.

Hi Philip

Although I don't know you personally I fully respect your
decision. Please stay in touch with the UFO scene. I doubt (IMHO)
that you will be able to leave ufology completely because of the
nature of the animal.

However I wish you the very best.

---
    In an infinite universe inifinitely anything is posible.
                       Sean Jones
 Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm
         Research page--http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/






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                        Re: Philip Mantle 'Signs-off'

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 14:20:05 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 23:47:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Philip Mantle 'Signs-off'

>Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:56:41 +0000
>From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Signing Off

>Dear Friends and Colleagues,

>I have to inform you that I am pulling out of ufology for an
>indefinate period. This has not been an easy decision to reach
>as I have been actively involved for nearly 20 years.

Hello Philip,

On behalf of myself, Budd and all of the members of IF we
wish you and your family the very best for your future.

I'll miss your 'regular requests' for people, names, addresses,
books, films, articles, e-mail addresses, websites, archives,
researchers, and every other manner of UFO related information.
I've always envisioned you in my head sitting in the middle of
a cluttered little office surrounded by tall stacks of papers
and files while you work feverishly on several things at once.
<VBG>

Best of luck to you and yours Mr Mantle,

"Live long and prosper!"

John Velez, Webmaster, IF-AIC









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                        Skeptics, 17th Century Style

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 14:34:40 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 23:47:36 -0400
Subject: Skeptics, 17th Century Style


The following passage is from God's Fires,  a fine science
fiction novel by Patricia Anthony about alien abductions in 17th
century Portugal.

Anthony is the only SF writer I've read who draws repeatedly on
the abduction literature. One of her earliest books, Brother
Termite, is almost a dramatization of David Jacobs's The Threat;
it's about sometime in the near future when the abduction aliens
have overtly taken over.

Another, Cold Allies (one of her best), combines foo fighters
and abductions, telling the story of a future war in which
combatants are observed by odd balls of blue light.

In God's Fires, the f amiliar gray abductors show up in Portugal
during the reign of feeble-minded King Alfonso, at the height of
the Inquisition. They float through walls, and make women
inexplicably pregnant. Their ships are seen lighting up the sky
at light, and one even crashes. Two of the aliens are imprisoned
in a village jail, along with the corpse of a third.

Because this is the 17th century, people think they're seeing
God and angels. That draws the Inquisition's interest, and
there's a formal heresy trial, omplete with torture and the
threat of burning at the stake.

Midway through comes this very amusing conversation. Bernardo, a
young, tormented monk serves as scribe for the chief inquisitor.
He tends to believe the aliens are angels, but can't say so
openly. With hin during a meal are two secular lawyers, forced
to serve the Inquisition at low pay, whose main interest is to
get the whole thing finished with as little fuss as possible.
They try to find a rational explanation. Bernardo can never
remember their names, and to himself calls them Scarecrow and
Goatee, after their appearance.

Here's the passage, beginning in the midst of a discussion of
the aliens' hypnotic eyes:


"Their eyes are dark and featureless, therefore . ."

"Yes, yes." Scarecrow said, "I get your meaning. The viewers
imagine something in their own reflections. Precisely."

Goatee, fork in one hand, knife in the other, stared down at the
sacrificial apple. "But then, if [the beings are] not
supernatural, what?"

"Animals. Lord knows there are enough strange animals in Africa,
in Brazil, in the Spanish New World."

"Ah!" Goatee hoisted his knife. "Of course! Brilliant, Tadeo! A
Spanish plot! They find the strange animals in some New World
colony, see that they are very like human, and . . they drop
them where? Precisely where they know the king to be. They
planned this all along, the disgracados!"

Scarecrow sawed into his polenta. "How?"

Goatee leaned forward, cupped his ear.

"How did they drop them here?"

Goatee slapped the table. "Catapulted!"

"Ah, good! Yes! Well, then. All decided. A Spanish plot."

Bernardo said. "What about the wornen?" [who had said they'd
seen lights in the sky]

Goatee leaned over, cupped an car.

"The women's story." Bernardo put down his silverware. "What
about that? And although Gregorio Neves is not here to testify,
he told Senhor MagalhAes that he saw the selfsame star hang in
the air above his fields before darting away the same direction
it had come. Is such a thing possible with a catapult?"

Goatee and Scarecrow looked at each other. Goatee sucked a
tooth. "Ah! The catapulted acorn came over the field, thus." He
demonstrated a slow arc with his hand. -And when it reached its
apex, from the perspective seen below . . ."

"Of course." Scarecrow nodded. "It seemed to hang. A trick of
the eye."

Goatee's hand came down, fingers meeting the table. "And so it
fell, a long ways away, thus was never discovered. Who knows how
many acorns they shot? Apparently the aim is not exact."

Scarecrow crossed himself. "Lauda Dei."

"Praise God, indeed. And the women? Well, perhaps they lie."






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                    Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:33:12 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 23:47:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs

> From: RobIrving@aol.com
> Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:21:12 EDT
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs

> Firstly, I have no opinion on whether migraines account for
> UFO-type experiences (I've never had migraines), but it seems
> curious that you appear to so anxious to dismiss the idea without
> bothering to read up on it.

It seems curious to me that anyone would be willing to pay
attention to something so unscientific as a hypothesis without a
discriminator and without reasonable analogy in the literature. I
only did so because it seemed a perfect example of anti-OEH
pseudoscience.

A 12th century saint seems pretty far to reach when there must
have been thousands of hours of migrane research in the modern
world.

And yet, not one laboratory reproduced close encounter among
them, apparently.

Not that the saint's experience seems like it could account for
anything more than fleeting lights. And absent a diagnosis that
the saint actually suffered from migrane (based on modern
scientific examination), your assertion or the assertion by the
author of a book that the saint's experience was caused by
migrane is no more than that - an unsubstantiated assertion.

You know, it takes more than saying, gee, these symptoms as
written about, usually in a self-report, sound a lot like how I
read a close encounter as appearing. First, you must prove that
the close encounter reporter suffers from migrane. Then you must
prove that the representation of migrane sufferers among close
encounter witnesses is higher than could be accounted for by
chance. Then you must demonstrate a causal connection in the form
of a continuum of migrane experiences from the most headache like
to the most close encounter-like. Then, preferably, you should
have laboratory supervised close encounter migranes, with MRI and
other brain data demonstrating that a migrane was actually in
progress at the time of the hallucination.

And by the way, hyperventilation, a blow on the head, or a
variety of psychotropic drugs, including ergot (occasionally
prevalent in the 12th century, BTW) could have caused an
experience of seeing waves of specks of lights. The hypothesizer
must demonstrate that migrane experiences are also differentiable
from those experiences. And note that the saint's description
isn't much like that of any actual, reliable, close encounter in
the literature.

As I said, I have a lot to read, and until someone shows that
migranes have more relationship to UFOs than did the Corso
fantasy, I just don't have the time or money to waste. I didn't
read Corso, either.

The onus is on the proposer to show the connection.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/library.htm
------







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                        Bond Johnson & Regher on Bell

From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 14:56:17 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 23:47:39 -0400
Subject: Bond Johnson & Regher on Bell


From: RONALD.REGEHR@Aerojet.com (Regehr, Ronald)
To: Bond <jbonjo@aol.com>, Debbie <destock@pacbell.net>,
Subject: ART BELL FINAL CONFIRMATION
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:50:03 -0700

The crap shoot is over.  YO!

Tonight Bond and I will be on Art Bell's show at 11:00 p.m.  This
is confirmed both by Art and by LMH.  So...if you have ANY
questions, comments, ??, concerns send them ASAP to BOTH Bond and
my home e-mail (regehrrs@exo.com).  Anything you DO NOT want
revealed should also be pointed out.  I do not know whether we
will be on for the "duration" or only for an hour--that is Art's
call.


Ron







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               NASA: On Alan Shepard, First American Astronaut

From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 16:03:05 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 23:46:50 -0400
Subject: NASA: On Alan Shepard, First American Astronaut

Peggy Wilhide
Headquarters, Washington, DCJuly 22, 1998
(Phone: 202/358-1898)

Brian Welch
Headquarters, Washington, DC
(Phone: 202/358-1600)

Rob Navias
Johnson Space Center, Houston, TX
(Phone: 281/483-3671)

Howard Benedict
Astronaut Scholarship Foundation, Titusville, FL
(Phone: 407/269-6119)

RELEASE: 98-131

ALAN SHEPARD, FIRST AMERICAN ASTRONAUT, DIES AT 74

Alan B. Shepard, Jr., the first American to fly in space and one
of only 12 humans who walked on the Moon, died Tuesday night
after a lengthy illness in Monterey, CA. He was 74.

Shepard died at Community Hospital on the Monterey Peninsula,
according to his family. The cause of death was not disclosed.
Funeral services are pending.

"The entire NASA family is deeply saddened by the passing of
Alan Shepard. NASA has lost one of its greatest pioneers;
America has lost a shining star," said NASA Administrator Daniel
S. Goldin.

"Alan Shepard will be remembered, always, for his
accomplishments of the past; being one of the original Mercury
astronauts, for being the first American to fly in space, and
for being one of only 12 Americans ever to step on the Moon. He
should also be remembered as someone who, even in his final
days, never lost sight of the future," Goldin added.

"On behalf of the space program Alan Shepard helped launch, and
all those that the space program has and will inspire, we send
our deepest condolences to his wife, Louise, their children, and
the rest of the Shepard family.

Alan Shepard lived to explore the heavens. On this final
journey, we wish him Godspeed."

"Alan Shepard is a true American hero, a pioneer, an original.
He was part of a courageous corps of astronauts that allowed us
to reach out into space and venture into the unknown," said
George W.S. Abbey, Director of the Johnson Space Center,
Houston, TX. "Alan Shepard gave all of us the privilege to
participate in the beginnings of America's great adventure of
human space exploration. He will be greatly missed. The program
has lost one of its greatest supporters and a true friend. Our
thoughts and prayers are with his wife, Louise, and their
family."

Named as one of the nation's original seven Mercury astronauts
in 1959, Shepard became the first to carry America's banner into
space on May 5, 1961, riding a Redstone rocket on a 15-minute
suborbital flight that took him and his Freedom 7 Mercury
capsule 115 miles in altitude and 302 miles downrange from Cape
Canaveral, FL.

His flight followed by three weeks the launch of Soviet
cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin, who on April 12, 1961, became the first
human space traveler on a one-orbit flight lasting 108 minutes.

Although the flight of Freedom 7 was brief, it nevertheless was
a major step forward for the U.S. in a rapidly-accelerating race
with the Soviet Union for dominance in the new arena of space.

Buoyed by the overwhelming response to Shepard's flight, which
made the astronaut an instant hero and a household name,
President John F. Kennedy set the nation on a course to the
Moon, declaring before a joint session of Congress just three
weeks later, "I believe this nation should commit itself to
achieving the goal, before the decade is out, of landing a man
on the Moon and returning him safely to the Earth."

Over a three and a half year period from July 1969 to December
1972, a dozen Americans explored the lunar surface. Shepard was
the fifth man to walk on the Moon, and the oldest,  at the age
of 47.

Shepard, however, was almost bypassed for a trip to the moon. He
had to overcome an inner ear problem called Meuniere's syndrome
that grounded him for several years following his initial
pioneering flight.

An operation eventually cured the problem and Shepard was named
to command the Apollo 14 mission. On January 31, 1971, Shepard,
Command Module pilot Stuart Roosa and Lunar Module pilot Edgar
Mitchell embarked for the Moon atop a Saturn 5 rocket. Shepard
and Mitchell landed the lunar module Antares on February 5 in
the Fra Mauro highlands while Roosa orbited overhead in the
command ship Kitty Hawk.

Shepard planted his feet on the lunar surface a few hours later,
declaring, "Al is on the surface, and it's been a long way, but
we're here." During two excursions on the surface totaling nine
hours, Shepard and Mitchell set up a science station, collected
92 pounds of rocks and gathered soil samples from the
mountainous region.

Near the end of the second moonwalk, and just before entering
the lunar module for the last time, Shepard (an avid golfer) hit
two golf balls with a makeshift club. The first landed in a
nearby crater. The second was hit squarely, and in the one-sixth
gravity of the moon, Shepard said it traveled "miles and miles
and miles."

Shepard's death leaves only four survivors among the original
Mercury 7 astronauts: Sen. John Glenn, Scott Carpenter, L.
Gordon Cooper and Walter Schirra.

Born Alan Bartlett Shepard, Jr. on Nov. 18, 1923, in East Derry,
NH, he received a Bachelor of Science degree from the United
States Naval Academy in 1944. Upon graduation, he married Louise
Brewer, whom he met while at Annapolis. Shepard received his
wings as a Naval aviator in 1947 and served several tours aboard
aircraft carriers. In 1950, he attended Naval Test Pilot School
at Patuxent River, MDS, and became a test pilot and instructor
there. He later attended the Naval War College at Newport, RI,
and after graduating, was assigned to the staff of the
commander-in-chief, Atlantic Fleet, as an aircraft readiness
officer.

In August 1974, Shepard, then a rear admiral, retired from both
NASA and the Navy and became chairman of Marathon Construction
Corp. in Houston. He later founded his own business company,
Seven Fourteen Enterprises, named for his two missions on
Freedom 7 and Apollo 14.

In 1984, he and the other surviving Mercury astronauts, along
with Betty Grissom, the widow of astronaut Virgil I. (Gus)
Grissom, founded the Mercury Seven Foundation to raise money for
scholarships for science and engineering students in college. In
1995, the organization was renamed the Astronaut Scholarship
Foundation. Shepard was elected president and chairman of the
foundation, posts he held until October 1997, when he turned
over both positions to former astronaut James A. Lovell.

Survivors include his widow, Louise, daughters Julie, Laura and
Alice and six grandchildren.

The family has requested that in lieu of flowers, donations be
made to the Astronaut Scholarship Foundation, 6225 Vectorspace
Boulevard, Titusville, FL, 32780.

  - end -








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                    Re: TV Documentaries On Greer's Ideas

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 14:08:35 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 23:47:42 -0400
Subject: Re: TV Documentaries On Greer's Ideas

>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
>Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 03:47:31 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Upcoming TV Documentaries On Greer's Ideas

>>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 06:01:11 +0200
>>Subject: Upcoming TV Documentaries Based On Steven Greer's Ideas

>>American Artists Film Corporation Announces Agreement with
>>Dr. Steven M. Greer

>>PR Newswire - July 16, 1998 19:16

>>ATLANTA, July 16 /PRNewswire/ -- American Artists Film
>>Corporation (OTC Bulletin Board: AAFC) announced completion of
>>an agreement with Crossing Point, Inc., a company headed by Dr.
>>Steven M. Greer, an authority on the subject of extraterrestrial
>>intelligence. Subject to completion of financing, the agreement
>>calls for AAFC to produce a series of television documentaries
>>featuring Dr. Greer's ideas and opinions regarding the existence
>>of extraterrestrial life. AAFC has six months, with an optional
>>six-month extension, to securing financing.

>So what we seem to be discussing is Ross Perot style "paid
>informercials" so to speak, depending on who is going to bank
>roll the project(s).

Hi Bob, hi All,

Couldn't have said it better myself! This guy is a 'horror' of
self-promotion and agrandizement. Greer has _appointed himself_
the "peoples representative" in Washington. Again, and loudly I
say, "BALLS!" This guy Greer needs a serious wake-up call. I feel
sorry for those who "follow him" unquestioningly and blindly.
People gotta learn to ask pertinent, and revealing questions.
Believing everything you 'hear' from Greer is no way to go
through life! <EG>

John Velez








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                   Re: Triangular UFOs in the Quinte Area

From: Sean Liddle Quinte-Eco <ecocon@intranet.ca>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 13:32:38 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 23:50:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Triangular UFOs in the Quinte Area


Hidelee ho neighbors:

With all the talk about Belgium and their triangular UFO flap in
1989, I thought I would let you all in on some sightings in the
Belleville to Brighton Ontario (Canada)..

In 1981, a 40 year old man was camping with his family (okay I
admit it, it was my father) at Presquile Provincial Park,
Brighton, Ontario. On numerous occations this man and others
including park rangers and at least one Ontario Provincial
Police office had seen your typical orb like lights moving about
over Lake Ontario. These were seen oftem by many campers and
reported to the local Military Base at Trenton Ontario. On one
such occasion, two C130 Hercules aircraft were seen by 10 plus
campers to fly out over the lake (following reports of lights by
fellow campers) using high intensity search lights, only to
return back towards base following 15 minutes of flying in a
pattern over the water (the lights had disappeared into the
water shortly before the aircraft appeared). A little while
later, the lights re-appeared. A phone call to the base resulted
in a denial of aircraft being sent out.

A few nights later, after we had all gone to our tents, my
father had begun to put out the campfire. Suddenly, he noticed
that all animal/frog and insect noises had stopped. He felt
movement above and looked up.. What he saw was "a triangular
section of darkness blotting out the stars" it started as a
point of darkvess (45 degree angle) which increased in size
until the sky above our site was blotted out. It moved silently
to the west (towards high bluff island) and started increasing
speed until it was above the water entirely. He moved to the
roadway and watched it as it rapidly moved upward at an
approximately 35 degree angle, then the black area diminished
until he could no longer discern its location. No other
witnesses were present as this was the end of the camping season
and a night in the middle of the week. Sighting time approx
1:00, hight of object approx. 300ft (100 metres), size ??large,
over 100 ft (30 M).

When I stared QAPRA (Quinte Aerial Phenomenon Research
Association) in 1994, I was contacted by my father and other
residents of the Stirling area that he knew. Apparently they had
been seeing slow moving objects above their (rural) homes late
at night that were apparently small (under 50') with a series of
lights beneath them, moving from the north to southwest.. From
their descriptions, I assumed they were Stealth aircraft moving
from Canadian Forces Base Ottawa to CFB TRenton and paid no more
attention. I asked a few friend who worked on the base who were
of no help (being usless administration wogs :) ) as they knew
nothing of incoming foreign aircraft they working only in
daylight hours. They said they would call if they heard of
anything. They never did.

I then received a similar call in he same week from a Registered
Nurse whose husband was of a similar professional career, who
lived North of Trenton. Well, this appeared to me to be at first
thought, the same terrestrial aircraft until she mentioned that
one time, they followed the craft as it flew at excessively slow
speeds (less than 80km/h) at low altitudes over local
residences. This plus the fact that the lights were turned off
at one point and they had to follow the object by its appearance
against the night sky.

I don't want to jump to any conclusions about these sightings
given the proximity to the Air Base, but it sounds to me like I
should have persued this a little more with my father prior to
his death in late 1994.

Sean Liddle
QAPRA

Quinte-Eco Consultants Inc.
P.O. Box 400
R.R. #7 Belleville, Ontario
Canada
K8N 4Z7





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                      Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS

From: Stanton T. Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 17:43:46 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 23:47:49 -0400
Subject: Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS


>From: Robert Todd <RTodd12191@aol.com>>
>Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:35:57 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS

>>Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:26:34 -0700
>>From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net>
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS


>Jan (see below):

>>Stan (see below):

><snip>>

>>>>>Colonel Philip J. Corso (ret.)

>>>>According to the Eisenhower Library, Colonel Corso was NEVER a
>>>>member of the National Security Council and did NOT attend any
>>>>of its meetings. He was connected with a subgroup. In addition
>>>>according to the Roster of the R and D unit under General
>>>>Trudeau, there only 2 members in the foreign technology Div. Lt.
>>>>Colonel Corso was the junior officer. He claimed to have been
>>>>head of the group. In other words, there seems to have been some
>>>>very serious misrep- resentation. According to Peter Gersten,
>>>>Corso and his son, when asked if the statement about his being
>>>>an NSC member whould be deleted from the affidavit, both said
>>>>no.

>Isn't it interesting that Stanton "I've Been To More Archives
>Than Anybody In The World" Friedman only believes documents when
>they say what he wants them to say?  And since it seems doubtful
>anybody who works at the Eisenhower Library was on the National
>Security Council at the time Corso claimed to be a member, the
>Eisenhower Library personnel had to rely on records for their
>information.  Perhaps Corso's involvement with the NSC was _so_
>secret that the information was removed from the NSC records to
>conceal his involvement, or perhaps nobody on the NSC had the
>"need to know" that Corso was a member of the NSC, or, more
>likely, the NSC records consulted by the Eisenhower Library
>personnel were incomplete.  After all, isn't Stan always telling
>us about the hundreds of thousands of pages of NSC records that
>haven't even been reviewed yet for declassification?  And what's
>that pithy little saying he keeps spouting, "Absence of evidence
>is not evidence for absence."  Sure, Corso was a member of the
>NSC, and that fact would be revealed if we only had access to
>those hundreds of thousands of pages of still- classified NSC
>records.

>Now that Corso has passed on to that great R&D lab in (we may
>presume) the sky, the complete contents of his military
>personnel file should be available for inspection.  Surely that
>record will show he was a member of the NSC.  But even if it
>doesn't, so what?  We reasonably can suppose, using the "logic"
>of Friedman, Rudiak, Rqandle, and others of their ilk, that the
>records are incomplete, and that, if they were complete, they
>would show that Corso was a member of the NSC.  Again, "absence
>of evidence is not evidence of absence."  Friedman should give
>Corso the same benefit of any supposed doubt he extends to Major
>Marcel.

>>Lieutenant Colonel Corso--I find no record of his advancement on
>>the retired list and when he recently testified before Congress
>>on POW matters it was as Lieutenant Colonel Corso, US Army retired--
>>was according to his Officer Qualification Record, Department of
>>the Army Form 66, indeed chief of the Foreign Technology Division
>>from 18 April 1962 to 18 June 1962.  This 90 day period was enough
>>time to give him an officer evaluation report for this position.

>>(Speculation:  he was put in this position to enhance his records
>>before a promotion board as he was also, during this short period,
>>awarded a General Staff Indentifier and awarded the Military
>>Occupational Speciality of Research and Development, Coordinator.
>>There is no indications of promotion boards or non-selections on
>>DA Form 66.  Such items would be in his Personnel File.)

>>He was *not* Chief of the Foreign Technology Division for two
>>years as he claimed in his book.  This and other inflations don't
>>seem to bother people at all.

>Jan, after seeing how Major Marcel's "inflations" didn't seem to
>bother anybody, does this really come as any surprise?  Hell,
>that mental giant, David Rudiak, dubbed me the "civilian point
>man in the Air Force's smear campaign against Marcel."  This is
>the same David Rudiak who Friedman claims produced a point-
>by-point refutation of my expose on Marcel, thereby allegedly
>negating everything I claimed Marcel "inflated."  Fact is, Marcel
>"inflated" through his teeth, but that's not what most of the UFO
>field wants to hear -- certainly not Friedman, who has fattened
>his purse on Roswell, and no doubt hopes to fatten it some more.
>Apparently he can't stand the competition from Corso.


I suppose I should be pleased that Bob Todd has come out of
retirement to once again demonstrate his psychic skills and the
fact that he hasn't gone to any archives, but is a splendid
armchair theorist.

Corso's connection with the NSC wasn't classified. The NSC is a
Statutory organization..

Here is the text which I had faxed to Gersten, Birnes,
Lindemann, The Roswell Museum etc.:

"This is in response to your inquiry of June 2. According to the
information found in our files, Col. Philip J. Corso was not a
member of the National Security Council or its ancillary agency,
the Operations Coordinating Board, during the Eisenhower
Administration. Mr. Corso served on the staff of the
Psychological Strategy Board and its successor, the Operations
Coordinating Board, from August 1953 to September 1956. He
served on a number of OCB working groups including the POW
Working group. We have not located any evidence that he  ever
attended an actual NSC meeting........."

Herbert L. Pankratz Archivist,
Eisenhower Library.
June 5.1998


Last I heard, there were 11 different finders Aids for the NSC
files alone of about 250,000 pages. At one time 50,000 pages
were still classified.. but major effort is being made to review
those. It is really a great place to do research. Bob and other
armchair theorists ought to try it. Phil Klass might have saved
himself the 1000$ he paid me for providing 10+ NSC documents
done in the large Pica Type, if he had gone  there instead of ,
like Bob, doing his research from his armchair and claiming that
elite type was it at the NSC. A copy of the correspondence and
the check is in my "Final Report on Operation Majestic 12."
Anybody who uses libraries to check out PM newspapers from  July
8, l947, would also note, though foolishly denied by armchair
theorist Bob, that the Brazel wreckage had been found "last
week", not on June 14 as required for the MOGUL disinformation.
explanation.





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   Jul > Jul 23

              Re: WARNING: Incorrect Information On The Artbell

From: William Hand <ufotruth@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 20:52:39 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 00:17:32 -0400
Subject: Re: WARNING: Incorrect Information On The Artbell

Everyone,

Tonight James Bond Johnson is going to be on
the Art Bell show. By now most of you should
know the incorrect information that James Bond
Johnson has been trying to spread. He has tried
to prove, through lousy photo-enhancments, that
the weather balloon JUNK in that General Ramey
showed the press in his office was really the
REAL WRECKAGE from the Roswell Crash. This idea is
absolutely ABSURD!

(I could go into detail about how his idea is absurd
but others on this list have made the reasons very
clear and have explained the reasons much more clearly
than I ever could.)

Apparently, James Bond Johnson is going on the Art
Bell show tonight and try to make people believe
that the FAKE WEATHER BALLOON JUNK, that Ramey showed
the press to try and make them think that only a
weather balloon had crashed, was really the real
wreckage.

We all need to try and do something about this! Everyone
needs to try and contact Art Bell and ask him to have
someone like Kevin Randall or Stanton Friedman on the
show tonight to refute Jame Bond Johnsons incorrect
claims and information!

If you are reading this Kevin Randall and Stanton Friedman
then please try to contact Art Bell and get on the show so
you can prevent the public from believeing the incorrect
information that James Bond Johnson is going to try and
spread!

We need you now Kevin Randall and Stanton Friedman!

Best Regards,
William









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   Jul > Jul 23

                   P-1947: Project 1947 on Sightings Radio

From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 18:33:34 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 00:49:18 -0400
Subject: P-1947: Project 1947 on Sightings Radio

Greetings List,

I will appear on Jeff Rense's show Friday, 7-24.  The show is
from 7-10 pm Pacific.  This should be a long show.  I don't know
if people can take me for two to three hours.

Regards,

Jan
--
Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.iufog.org/project1947/
P. O. Box 391, Canterbury, CT 06331, USA
Telephone: (860) 546-9135





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             Re: Sheriff Sees Prank And No Aliens In Crop Circle

From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 03:24:40 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 02:09:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Sheriff Sees Prank And No Aliens In Crop Circle


From: The Toledo Blade.

URL:

http://www.toledoblade.com:80/editorial/spot98/8g22crop.htm


Stig


*******


Sheriff just sees a prank and no aliens in crop circle


July 22, 1998


BY MIKE TRESSLER
Blade Staff Writer


BROUGHTON, O. - A so-called "crop circle" has some Paulding
County residents scratching their heads - again.

Is it man-made? The creation of a mysterious natural force? The
impression of an alien spaceship?

(The sheriff says vandals created the latest crop circle. Toledo
Blade photo by Lisa Dutton.)

In X-Files fashion, investigators of the paranormal have come
and gone in Latty Township, as they did exactly two years ago to
another field south of Paulding.

They peered, probed, and collected dirt and stalks where wheat
was mashed flat in a perfect circle.

While they returned to laboratories to analyze samples and
ponder data, Paulding County Sheriff Dave Harrow looked the site
over and made his conclusion.

"It looks like a case of vandalism of wheat," the sheriff said.
"It does not look like the work of extraterrestrial beings."

The round patch of flattened wheat was discovered by farmer
Brian Ruble on July 6 while he was harvesting wheat on a farm
owned by Georgia Price.

The mysterious ring is three miles from where an identical crop
circle was found in July, 1996.

Mrs. Price herself inspected the 92-foot circle. There were
noticeable footsteps leading to the circle. But she said they
were from people traipsing the wheat field to stare at the ring.

"The wheat was flattened to the ground, all bent over in one
direction, counterclockwise," she said.

What is it? What caused it? That's what observers ask every time
a crop circle appears.

Theories abound among students of the paranormal. Are crop
circles weather phenomena? Landing pads for unidentified flying
objects? The result of quirky winds or magnetic energy forces?

Or are they hoaxes, made by jokesters?

In 1996, spectators flocked to see the circle on a field farmed
by Dan, Don, and Dave Arends. Investigators studied soil and
wrote reports. T-shirts were sold.

This time, not as many noticed. "Curious people came to look the
first few days," Mrs. Price said.

"I don't know what the circle is. Most folks around here think
it's weather-related or something, or maybe it's caused by them
little green men from outer space.

"We joke about that, but we don't really know."

Sheriff Harrow does not have those doubts.

"It looks like vandalism to me," he said. "The case is closed."

Crop circles have cropped up on farms since they first were
found in England in the 1970s. Since then, thousands of them
have appeared there.

The rings, of all sizes, have been investigated by organizations
which look for evidence of paranormal activity or clues to the
existence of unidentified flying objects.

An investigator from the Mutual UFO Network, Roger Sugden, and
an Eastern Michigan University professor, Jeffrey Wilson, were
on the scene one recent day, Mrs. Price said.

But most crop circles have proved to be hoaxes, perpetrated by
practical jokers.

It was concluded that the 1996 Paulding County ring was
man-made.

One investigator, Joe Nickell of the nonprofit Skeptical
Inquirer, declared, "They're all hoaxes."

Likewise, a 1996 crop circle in Allen County was declared a
fake.

In 1995, several crop circles were discovered in Michigan's
Lenawee County, prompting speculation about alien landings and
supernatural forces.

Five teens confessed to walking in circles to trample the wheat.

And in England, two men were found to have mapped and made many
circles using string and boards to flatten the stalks.

Still, UFO enthusiasts and sleuths of the paranormal prick up
their ears whenever a new crop circle is found. Not all could be
bogus, they say.

"Sure, some are hoaxes, but some are unexplained," said Richard
Thielmann of Toledo, a Mutual UFO Network member.

"Our organization has analyzed wheat and found chemical changes
in stalks and how grain was broken off that could not have been
done by pranksters," he said.

Sheriff Harrow has studied the topic since the 1996 crop circle
caused an uproar in his county.

"I've read documents about them and I went out there to look and
I'm satisfied it was made by people," the sheriff said.

He says he especially does not believe it is UFO-related.

"I personally think if intelligent extraterrestial beings evaded
radar and other detection, they would not make a mark by landing
in a wheat field when there are so many empty paved parking lots
for them to land on."


=A9 Copyright 1998 The Blade. All rights reserved.





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   Jul > Jul 23

                               Klass Question

From: Scott Jordan <sjordan@sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 04:01:38 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 12:44:52 -0400
Subject: Klass Question


Is Philip Klass the 60s science fiction writer William Tenn?
Can anyoneanswer this ?







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                    Re: TV Documentaries On Greer's Ideas

From: Greg St. Peirre <StrmNut@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 06:52:18 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:02:57 -0400
Subject: Re: TV Documentaries On Greer's Ideas


Dear list,

For what it's worth, Steven Greer claims to have aquired a great
deal of video footage from his "CE-5s". He will not release any
of this footage or allow it to be studied independently. I saw
one or two seconds of it on a TV show, and admittedly it looked
interesting, but that's ALL I've ever seen. Anyone ever see
more?

Greg






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                         Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 03

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 01:52:12 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:04:10 -0400
Subject: Re: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 03


> Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 17:44:24 -0400
> From: Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith]
> Subject: MAGONIA ETH Bulletin 03
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> In Britain, Christopher Kenworthy and his fellow researchers have
> tried a similar experiment. Some of the subjects remembered being
> abducted, but when the tapes were played back they were seen to
> have been in bed all the time. However, on two separate nights
> which tally with their abduction memories, two of our
> experimenters were seen getting up and leaving the bedroom. In
> both cases they look asleep as they walk. In both cases they are
> missing for exactly three hours and 27 minutes. And then, still
> asleep, they walk back in and climb into bed. (4)

> 4. Kenworthy, Christopher. Abduction Evidence , Alien Encounters,
> No. 25, 1998, 68

I'd love to read this piece. Can anyone point me toward a copy of
the publication?

Greg Sandow







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                Re: Roswell Witnesses Interviewed By Houston

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 06:49:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:01:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Roswell Witnesses Interviewed By Houston

>Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:58:48 -0500
>From: Donnie W. Shevlin <dshevlin@primary.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Roswell Witnesses Interviewed By Houston Chronicle


>Agreed. Bob, although I have never posted arguments (difference
>in opinions) that I have with you on occasion. I would like to
>post one here that we agree.

>The government has lied far to many times on this issue to be
>coming clean anytime soon.

>I don't have the Houston article at hand but what I recall, the
>PR officer was given explicate instructions as to what to write
>in that first news release. These gentlemen, base commander etc.,
>knew what a weather balloon was and more than likely would be
>able to identify one from a distance. Inflated, deflated, crashed
>or even mauled by tigers, they know the difference between a
>balloon and a crashed unknown vehicle.

>Donnie


Thanks.

As anyone who knows me well will tell you, I am honest and not
shy about expressing my opinions. I don't expect everyone to
agree with me, and my mind is not closed to other ideas and
interpretations.

Like anyone else, I like it when I am right, but am willing to
admit it when I am wrong. So far I have seen nothing to make me
think that I am wrong about Roswell.

They really should have used a crashed B-29 as a cover story.
There were some crashes, and that would have worked a lot better
than this absurd balloon concoction they came up with. You are
right, the most important point is that everyone involved from
Brazel on to Ramey knew damned well what crashed balloons looked
like, and this did not look like one.

Bob








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                    Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 10:49:35 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:12:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs


> From: RobIrving@aol.com
> Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:21:12 EDT
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs

Rob Irving castigates Mark Cashman:

> Firstly, I have no opinion on whether migraines account for
> UFO-type experiences (I've never had migraines), but it seems
> curious that you appear to so anxious to dismiss the idea without
> bothering to read up on it.

And, in the essay that started this delightful spat, John Harney
had written:

"I suggest that those who wish to argue about this subject
should read Dr Sacks's book first, if possible. Comments and
information are welcome, particularly from medically qualified
readers."

Trouble is, the two gentlemen are talking about different books.
Harney based his essay on Sacks's book on migraines, while Rob
wants Mark to rush off and read the touching five-page tribute
to Hildegard of Bingen in Sacks's "The Man Who Mistook His Wife
for a Hat."

Hildegard, a 12th century poet, mystic, and (let's not forget)
musician, is famous for her visions, which Sacks says are beyond
doubt "migrainous," though he gives no reason for saying so.
Because he gives no reason -- and above all because he's written
a separate, complete book on the subject -- his rather sweet
essay isn't much of a source for the effects of migraines. I
might add that most of it isn't about migraines at all, but
instead about his support of Hildegard's mysticism. Even if her
visions had a purely biological cause, he says, she made
something wonderful of them.

What's most important, though, is Rob's thorough
misunderstanding of exactly Mark said. Mark didn't dismiss the
idea that UFO experiences might possibly be caused by migraines.
He dismissed Harney's argument for that, which he thought was
unscientific in the extreme.

And now Rob comes along and says, "Lo! Do your reading! Read an
Oliver Sacks book that isn't even the one Harney cited in his
notes, and isn't even mentioned anywhere in Harney's essay!"

This ought to give Mark yet another skeptics' trait to cite,
next time he demolishes some skeptical thinking.

Very perceptively - amusingly, too - Mark had talked about a
charming habit of skeptics, their way of insisting that their
opponents find the scientific "descriptor." Skeptics, in other
words, sometimes put forth idle theories, like Harney's on
migraines. Harney, having read some UFO reports and a book on
migraines, essentially says "Whoa! Look at that! Some
similarities here, don't you think?"

What Mark points out is that Harney hasn't supplied the
descriptor - the traits that would take the discussion beyond
anecdotes, and precisely distinguish a visual experience caused
by migraines from one caused by something else. With such a
descriptor, we might establish not that UFO experiences MIGHT be
caused by migraines, but that they really are.

And in return, Harney's supporters prove Mark's point about
skeptics, by rushing in to say (in effect) "You say UFO
sightings can't be caused by migraines? (Which Mark didn't say,
of course.) You haven't proved that they're not!" In other
words, suddenly the burden of proof is on Mark, and his thorough
demolishing of Harney's logic is entirely ignored.

But Rob has now taken this to another level .Mark criticizes
Harney, saying his citations from Oliver Sacks don't prove his
point. Rob jumps in, saying "But you didn't read this OTHER
Sacks book," one Harney hadn't even mentioned. So it's not
enough for skeptics to ask Mark to find Harney's missing (and
crucial) descriptor. Now they want him to do Harney's research!

Laughing very hard,

Greg Sandow







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                             Re: Meier Pictures

From: Don Ecker <decker@ufomag.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:41:31 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:17:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Meier Pictures


>From: The Duke of Mendoza - Peter Brookesmith <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Meier Pictures
>Sender: The Duke of Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>Couldn't resist this one. That above is true except that

>(a) a crucial difference is the .223 is a jacketed round, while
>.22 Long Rifle is a bare lead bullet (though it may be copper
>washed);

That is correct. I have fired thousands of rounds of both types.
Plus the fact that the .223 (or 5.56 mm velocity is about 3200
feet per second from the barrel of an M 16 rifle. The .22
caliber LR round out of a standard .22 caliber rifle is a bit of
1000 feet per second.


>.22 WMR is a jacketed round, however, and is deadly - it
>actually carries more kinetic energy than a .45 Colt ACP, and is
>the preferred pistol round for Mossad terminators:

Dear Duke.... wrong and wrong. I carried and used a .45 ACP for
years both in the U.S. Army and while a police officer. The
standard .45 ACP (it means Automatic Colt Pistol) round is a 234
Grn. jacketed slug. Standard velocity is around 870 feet per
second. Maxium range (not effective range, although even at this
I would not wish to be hit even at this range) is 1,500 meters.
EFFECTIVE Range is between 50 and 60 meters depending on the
skill of the operator. I have hit targets at 100 meters with a
.45 ACP however. If you use "controlled expansion ammunition
then everything goes out the window. Winchester has made a round
called the "silvertip" which imparts awsome wound
characteristics. It is in the range of 185 Grns. weight.

The Mossad used a .22 caliber weapon for "executive actions",
but it was a Berreta (sp?) in a .22 caliber SHORT. But back to
the reason I wrote this, the idea of comparing a .22 WMR to a
.45 ACP as carrying more kinetic energy is just patently
ridiculous. Kind of like comparing a small stone to a huge block
of granite.Don (love that .45 ACP) Ecker Been there,  and DONE
THAT!

-- Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong
   conclusion with confidence.

Don Ecker
UFO Magazine
www.ufomagazine.com








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                      Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS

From: Robert Todd <RTodd12191@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 04:50:04 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 12:58:44 -0400
Subject: Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS


>Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 17:43:46 -0300
>From: Stanton T. Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS

>>From: Robert Todd <RTodd12191@aol.com>>
>>Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:35:57 EDT
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS

>>>Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:26:34 -0700
>>>From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net>
>>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>>Subject: Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS

Friedman wrote:

<snip>

>I suppose I should be pleased that Bob Todd has come out of
>retirement to once again demonstrate his psychic skills and the
>fact that he hasn't gone to any archives, but is a splendid
>armchair theorist.

Thank you, Stan, I think you mean that.

>Corso's connection with the NSC wasn't classified. The NSC is a
>Statutory organization..

Stan, have you become a member of the government's cover-up?
Surely Corso could have had an unclassified involvement with the
NSC, and a highly-classified part not reflected in the merely
top-secret stuff, in much the same way that Twining, in
reporting to his superiors, lied about not having any crashed
saucers in the possession of the Air Force. Hell, if Twining
would lie to his superiors as you and Randle allege, why
wouldn't the NSC lie to other members of the NSC, and doctor the
official records to conceal Corso's super-duper,
tippy-top-secret duties with the NSC? They wouldn't even have to
doctor the records, but just keep the super-duper-secret stuff
out of the hands of the Eisenhower Library. Absence of evidence
is not evidence of absence. If it's good enough for MJ-12, then,
dammit, it's good enough for Corso too.


>Here is the text which I had faxed to Gersten, Birnes,
>Lindemann, The Roswell Museum etc.:

>"This is in response to your inquiry of June 2. According to the
>information found in our files, Col. Philip J. Corso was not a
>member of the National Security Council or its ancillary agency,
>the Operations Coordinating Board, during the Eisenhower
>Administration. Mr. Corso served on the staff of the
>Psychological Strategy Board and its successor, the Operations
>Coordinating Board, from August 1953 to September 1956. He
>served on a number of OCB working groups including the POW
>Working group. We have not located any evidence that he ever
>attended an actual NSC meeting........."

>Herbert L. Pankratz Archivist,
>Eisenhower Library.
>June 5.1998

Irrelevant. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

I'm certain that, like the mythical MJ-12, Corso's _real_ duties
with the NSC were _so_ tippy-top-secret that you aren't going
to find them among the merely top-secret holdings of the NSC.
You're gonna have to peek at the SCI and ESI stuff -- but we all
know MJ-12 will never let that happen, although I'm certain
there are members of the current MJ-12 who really want the truth
to come out - you know, the guys who helped you and Bill Moore
out by furnishing all those Top Secret/Majic documents.

I shudder to think what nefarious activities Corso was involved
in that the NSC and MJ-12 feel they must hide the details of his
_true_ involvement with the NSC. I think we have a second Cosmic
Watergate here. Maybe Corso was deeply involved officially with
crashed saucers a lot earlier than he led us to believe in his
book. I understand he imparted startling information to his son
just prior to his death. Maybe he even had records to support
his statements, and perhaps his son will release them in the
not-too-distant future.

Besides, not _all_ NSC records were transferred to the
Eisenhower Library. Maybe the records detailing Corso's _real_,
super-duper, tippy-top-secret duties are still held by the NSC.
If I were you, I'd file a FOIA with the NSC. And, if necessary,
you can take it all the way to the Supreme Court, just like you
did with the CAUS lawsuit against the NSA. If anybody can do it,
you can. I have faith in you, and I know you won't let me down.

>Last I heard, there were 11 different finders Aids for the NSC
>files alone of about 250,000 pages. At one time 50,000 pages
>were still classified.. but major effort is being made to review
>those.

Ahhh, that's what they _want_ you to believe. And they probably
have withheld only those records dealing with MJ-12 and Corso's
tippy-top-secret NSC duties, which are not reflected in the
merely top-secret records. Surely they must consider Corso _as_
important as your "ground breaking" research into the MJ-12
documents.

>It is really a great place to do research. Bob and other
>armchair theorists ought to try it.

This armchair researcher can out-research you any day of the
week.

>Phil Klass might have saved
>himself the 1000$ he paid me for providing 10+ NSC documents
>done in the large Pica Type, if he had gone there instead of ,
>like Bob, doing his research from his armchair and claiming that
>elite type was it at the NSC.

Be careful with your wording there, Stan. Don't claim that I
ever claimed anything about pica or elite type, as might be
assumed from your (deliberately?) poorly worded sentence.

You keep rubbing Klass' nose in this as though his stupid bet
somehow makes Roswell and MJ-12 true. Must be some of that
superior logic you employ.

>A copy of the correspondence and the check is in my "Final
>Report on Operation Majestic 12."

What's the matter, Stan? Why didn't you include your address
where your $16,000 report can be purchased?

>Anybody who uses libraries to check out PM newspapers from July
>8, l947, would also note, though foolishly denied by armchair
>theorist Bob, that the Brazel wreckage had been found "last
>week", not on June 14 as required for the MOGUL disinformation.
>explanation.

I never denied that some newspapers said "last week." And
insofar as the source of the balloon debris is concerned, it
really doesn't matter if Brazil found it on June 14th or later.
The "MOGUL disinformation explanation" doesn't depend on the
date when Brazil found the debris.

It's as much selective choice of data for you as you claim it
is for me.

Remember, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. You
just gotta keep looking, Stan. Trust me. Corso's secret
involvement with the NSC is every bit as important to ufology as
your MJ-12 is.

Long live Roswell!

Bob "Testy" Todd








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              Sheriff Sees A Prank And No Aliens In Crop Circle

From: Kenny Young <task@fuse.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 10:15:40 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:09:03 -0400
Subject: Sheriff Sees A Prank And No Aliens In Crop Circle

Sheriff just sees a prank and no aliens in crop circle

The Toledo Blade
July 22, 1998

BY MIKE TRESSLER Blade Staff Writer

BROUGHTON, O. - A so-called "crop circle" has some Paulding
County residents scratching their heads - again.

Is it man-made? The creation of a mysterious natural force? The
impression of an alien spaceship?

In X-Files fashion, investigators of the paranormal have come
and gone in Latty Township, as they did exactly two years ago to
another field south of Paulding.

They peered, probed, and collected dirt and stalks where wheat
was mashed flat in a perfect circle.

While they returned to laboratories to analyze samples and
ponder data, Paulding County Sheriff Dave Harrow looked the site
over and made his conclusion.

"It looks like a case of vandalism of wheat," the sheriff said.
"It does not look like the work of extraterrestrial beings."

The round patch of flattened wheat was discovered by farmer
Brian Ruble on July 6 while he was harvesting wheat on a farm
owned by Georgia Price.

The mysterious ring is three miles from where an identical crop
circle was found in July, 1996.

Mrs. Price herself inspected the 92-foot circle. There were
noticeable footsteps leading to the circle. But she said they
were from people traipsing the wheat field to stare at the ring.

"The wheat was flattened to the ground, all bent over in one
direction, counterclockwise," she said.

What is it? What caused it? That's what observers ask every time
a crop circle appears.

Theories abound among students of the paranormal. Are crop
circles weather phenomena? Landing pads for unidentified flying
objects? The result of quirky winds or magnetic energy forces?

Or are they hoaxes, made by jokesters?

In 1996, spectators flocked to see the circle on a field farmed
by Dan, Don, and Dave Arends. Investigators studied soil and
wrote reports. T-shirts were sold.

This time, not as many noticed. "Curious people came to look the
first few days," Mrs. Price said.

"I don't know what the circle is. Most folks around here think
it's weather-related or something, or maybe it's caused by them
little green men from outer space.

"We joke about that, but we don't really know."

Sheriff Harrow does not have those doubts.

"It looks like vandalism to me," he said. "The case is closed."

Crop circles have cropped up on farms since they first were
found in England in the 1970s. Since then, thousands of them
have appeared there.

The rings, of all sizes, have been investigated by organizations
which look for evidence of paranormal activity or clues to the
existence of unidentified flying objects.

An investigator from the Mutual UFO Network, Roger Sugden, and
an Eastern Michigan University professor, Jeffrey Wilson, were
on the scene one recent day, Mrs. Price said.

But most crop circles have proved to be hoaxes, perpetrated by
practical jokers.

It was concluded that the 1996 Paulding County ring was
man-made.

One investigator, Joe Nickell of the nonprofit Skeptical
Inquirer, declared, "They're all hoaxes."

Likewise, a 1996 crop circle in Allen County was declared a
fake.

In 1995, several crop circles were discovered in Michigan's
Lenawee County, prompting speculation about alien landings and
supernatural forces.

Five teens confessed to walking in circles to trample the wheat.

And in England, two men were found to have mapped and made many
circles using string and boards to flatten the stalks.

Still, UFO enthusiasts and sleuths of the paranormal prick up
their ears whenever a new crop circle is found. Not all could be
bogus, they say.

"Sure, some are hoaxes, but some are unexplained," said Richard
Thielmann of Toledo, a Mutual UFO Network member.

"Our organization has analyzed wheat and found chemical changes
in stalks and how grain was broken off that could not have been
done by pranksters," he said.

Sheriff Harrow has studied the topic since the 1996 crop circle
caused an uproar in his county.

"I've read documents about them and I went out there to look and
I'm satisfied it was made by people," the sheriff said.

He says he especially does not believe it is UFO-related.

"I personally think if intelligent extraterrestial beings evaded
radar and other detection, they would not make a mark by landing
in a wheat field when there are so many empty paved parking lots
for them to land on."


End of article
________________________________________________________________


Comment:

Special thanks to researcher Jerry Hamm of Napoleon, Ohio for
following this story. A small photograph of this situation is
available at:  http://members.tripod.com/~task_2/Paulding2.htm
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/task/






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                    Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs

From: John Rimmer <j_rimmer@library.croydon.gov.uk>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 18:31:34 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 14:02:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs


>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:33:12 -0400
>Subject: Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs
>To: updates@globalserve.net

For the benefit of a number of people on this list, may I
repeat: John Harney is _not_ proposing a universal theory of UFO
origin, merely suggesting that _some_ otherwise puzzling UFO
report might be explained by some of the medical symptoms of
migraine.

Cashman seems curiously over-eager to discount the possibility
that _any_ UFO reports could be the result of migraine, to the
extent of refusing to read the only easily accessible book on
the topic.

He is keen to point out all the things an investigator should do
to prove a linkage between UFO experiences and migraine:

>first you must prove the close encounter reporter suffers from
>migraine.

I agree, but Sacks' book suggests that this might not be as easy
to find out as Cashman thinks. Perhaps he _should_ read the book
after all. He'd be very scathing if I said I wouldn't read any
astronomy textbooks because I'd already decided the topic had
nothing to do with UFOs.

He also suggest that we should demonstrate 'a continuum of
migraine experiences from the most headache like to the most
close encounter-like'. Well hang on a minute. We've only been
talking about this for a couple of days and you want a full
research programme already? I thought the idea of putting a
suggestion like this up an a mailing list was so that people
could look at whether or not evidence existed. The particular
caser which John Harney mentioned in "ETH Bulletin" was _not_
presented as "best evidence", simply a convenient comparison
which was to hand and seemed to have a number of relevant
features. I would still say that the Elsie Oakenson case bears
looking at.

Rob Irving's contribution about St Hildegard also suggests a
possible line of study. The wicked old PSHers of course would
say it was typical that a strange and distubing experience would
be interpreted as a religious vision by a 12th Century mystic,
and something entirely different by an inhabitant of a modern
technological society.

Are the ETH-as-a-possible-explanation crew _really_ so
closed-minded that they have to jump, with very heavy boots, on
other theories?

Yours openmindedly
John Rimmer

--

Magonia OnLine: www.magonia.demon.co.uk








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                             Re: Klass Question

From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:24:40 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 19:25:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Klass Question


>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 04:01:38 -0400
>From: Scott Jordan <sjordan@sympatico.ca>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Klass Question

>Is Philip Klass the 60s science fiction writer William Tenn?
>Can anyoneanswer this ?

Yes. No, he's not. See Jim Schnabel's  book "Dark White."

Dennis







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                             Re: Klass Question

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 14:29:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 19:27:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Klass Question


> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 04:01:38 -0400
> From: Scott Jordan <sjordan@sympatico.ca>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Klass Question

> Is Philip Klass the 60s science fiction writer William Tenn?
> Can anyoneanswer this ?


No. He spent most of his professional life as a writer and editor
for Aviation Week magazine. He's now retired.

Greg Sandow







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                             Re: Klass Question

From: KRandle993@aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 15:00:43 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 19:28:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Klass Question


>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 04:01:38 -0400
>From: Scott Jordan <sjordan@sympatico.ca>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Klass Question


>Is Philip Klass the 60s science fiction writer William Tenn?
>Can anyoneanswer this ?


Believe it or not, that was a different Philip Klass.

KRandle





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                             Re: Klass Question

From: Don Ecker <decker@ufomag.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 12:30:00 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 23:17:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Klass Question


>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 04:01:38 -0400
>From: Scott Jordan <sjordan@sympatico.ca>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Klass Question

>Is Philip Klass the 60s science fiction writer William Tenn?
>Can anyone answer this ?



The short answer is yes.

Don Ecker


--
Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion
with confidence.

Don Ecker
UFO Magazine
www.ufomagazine.com





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                             Re: Klass Question

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 15:47:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 23:20:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Klass Question

>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 04:01:38 -0400
>From: Scott Jordan <sjordan@sympatico.ca>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Klass Question

>Is Philip Klass the 60s science fiction writer William Tenn?
>Can anyone answer this ?


Yes, I can answer.  No, he isn't.

Bob







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                             Re: Klass Question

From: Paul B. Thompson - ParaScope <MrApol@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:23:39 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 23:29:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Klass Question

No, Philip Klass, the aviation writer and UFO skeptic, is no the
same man as William Tenn, a mathematics professor who wrote
science fiction under the pseudohym, 'Philip Klass'.

Paul B. Thompson
ParaScope






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             Re: Sheriff Sees Prank And No Aliens In Crop Circle

From: RobIrving@aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:17:48 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 23:23:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Sheriff Sees Prank And No Aliens In Crop Circle

>  From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk>
>  To: updates@globalserve.net
>  Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 03:24:40 +0200
>  Subject: Sheriff Sees Prank And No Aliens In Crop Circle

>  From: The Toledo Blade.

>  Sheriff just sees a prank and no aliens in crop circle

<snip>

>  One investigator, Joe Nickell of the nonprofit Skeptical
>  Inquirer, declared, "They're all hoaxes."

>  Likewise, a 1996 crop circle in Allen County was declared a
>  fake.

Not at all likewise.  If Joe Nickell is right in saying that all
crop circles are man-made, then man-made circles are the genuine
phenomenon. The 'fakes' would have to be made by something else
entirely.

Rob






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                    Re: TV Documentaries On Greer's Ideas

From: dledger@ns.sympatico.ca (Donald  Ledger)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:10:55 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 23:21:38 -0400
Subject: Re: TV Documentaries On Greer's Ideas


> From: Greg St. Peirre <StrmNut@aol.com>
> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 06:52:18 EDT
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: TV Documentaries On Greer's Ideas

> Dear list,

> For what it's worth, Steven Greer claims to have aquired a great
> deal of video footage from his "CE-5s". He will not release any
> of this footage or allow it to be studied independently.

That last sentence is good enough reason to blow it off right
there Greg. Though I suppose there are those out there that can
think of reasons why Greer should keep the stuff close to his
chest.

Don Ledger






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                 Re: Freedom of Information Bill in the UK?

From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:39:39 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 23:38:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Freedom of Information Bill in the UK?

The British Labour Government, elected in 1997, has made various
promises relating to a future Freedom of Information Bill. This
proposed legislation would be not unlike the US FOIA. I
understand that although the general principles of the
legislation are agreed upon there is much argument by civil
servants and ministers behind closed doors about the nature of
the material that would emerge.

Clearly this bill could mean that recent UK 'UFO' files might be
made available for our perusal....

Whitehall mandarins, the men in grey suits, have apparently made
their position known regarding information that might be
'damaging to the National Interest' - should it be released.
They seem to be fighting a rearguard action at the highest
level.

Under these circumstances, and given the many problems
encountered by advocates of this long overdue legislation, I was
pleasantly surprised to learn today that Ann Taylor (Member of
Parliament for Dewsbury, President of the Council and Leader of
the House of Commons) would be presenting a 'draft bill' in
Autumn this year.

The challenge for British Ufologists is clear. We must put what
little pressure we can on our elected representatives to ensure
that 'UFO' files, those opened by S4, DS8 and latterly Sec AS2a,
are made available to us via the PRO and by request. Given the
OFFICIAL position (and I emphasize the word official) that UFOs
are 'of no defence significance' then there can be no legitimate
reason to withhold them.

In addition, and this might be a point worth making in
depositions, as much other (and recent) UFO-related material,
for instance Defence Intelligence Staff (DIS) files, should also
be made available.

I can understand why UK Ufologists might feel that mundane
activities such as letter writing and visiting MPs at their
surgeries might not be profitable. Nevertheless, my and others
experience of such efforts have been rather enlightening! In
addition, we have every reason to believe that a range of
fascinating 'UFO' files could be made available to us under the
provisions of a future UK FOI Bill......

It doesn't matter what we think 'UFOs' are - both the skeptic
and believer must have an equal interest in knowing what new
information on this subject is to emerge. I hope that people
will take this opportunity to make common cause with other
pressure groups in order to ensure that this opportunity is not
allowed to slip through our fingers...

Get writing! Make history, not excuses!

Tim Matthews,
Lancashire UFO Society,
British UFO Studies Centre.

For further information reply to;

matthews@zetnet.co.uk
Stealthchaser@hotmail.com
bufosc@compuserve.com






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                  P-1947: The Sturrock Panel: The Next Step

From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:24:48 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 23:35:16 -0400
Subject: P-1947: The Sturrock Panel: The Next Step

Greetings List Members,

RE: THE STURROCK PANEL'S RECOMMENDATIONS

There are not as yet any answers to the request concerning the
Sturrock Panel, and what the next step should be. There always
seems to be complaints and criticisms after someone in ufology
does or proposes something. There always seems to be few
recommended courses of actions before the fact, but great
amounts of criticism and complaints after the fact.

The main reactions to the Sturrock Panel seems to be the debate
whether or not the panel precluded the ETH, if some of the
panel members were nut cases, if some list members had the wrong
attitude toward the panel, or if Sturrock had acted properly.
The panel is over, that is the real world! All the arguments
about how the panel *should have been conducted* are moot.
Perhaps the way to focus on the problem is from a military-like
point of view.

I have 25+ years in the military. Generally, in the military, if
one is given a tasking, it will contain the mission statement or
question, assumptions (or conditions) which contain the
parameters within which the question should be answered, and
intelligence (or information) which should be considered in
formulating the answer.

Obviously, this is not the military, so no one can be ordered to
come up with an answer. If you don't like the mission or the
assumptions, don't answer, or start a thread of your own. For
those others, who like Mission Impossible, "Your mission should
you choose to accept it is:"

I. Tasking:

   What actions should now be taken to implement the Sturrock
Panel's main recommendation that UFO deserve serious scientific
consideration?

II. Assumptions.

   A. There is no definitive critical information currently
available that will settle the UFO problem once and for all. (Or
restated for the conspiracy minded: Those "in the know" will not
be revealing critical information. So you will not be able to
inspect any crashed saucers soon.)

   B. Most of the official, scientific, and media establishments
will remain dubious or skeptical of UFOs.

   C. There will be a slim possibility of limited cooperation
with official and scientific organizations (FAA, weather bureau,
access to unofficial tracking networks and records).

  D. Political action is not within the scope of this
recommendation.

  E. Funding will be extremely limited with $500,000 being at
the upper limit.

III. Intelligence.

    Visit the JSE site for information on the panel. You have 50
years of information in books, newsletters and on the Internet.

    Now let's see what ufology can comes up with.

Best regards,

Jan
--
Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.iufog.org/project1947/
P. O. Box 391, Canterbury, CT 06331, USA
Telephone: (860) 546-9135







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              Re: Researcher Presents Case For Liquid Water On

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 01:27:36 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 23:50:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Researcher Presents Case For Liquid Water On

URL: http://www.biospherics.com/pressrelease/pr072098.htm

The full published paper is at

http://www.biospherics.com/mars/spie2/spie98.htm

Links are preceded by asterisks.


Stig


*******


PRESS RELEASE
12051 Indian Creek Court
Beltsville, MD 20705


EMBARGOED FOR RELEASE
10:00 a.m., July 20, 1998, Pacific Standard Time

For additional information, contact
Dr. Gilbert V. Levin
Marriott Hotel and Marina
San Diego, California
Telephone: 619-234-1500

July 20, 1998


RESEARCHER PRESENTS CASE FOR LIQUID WATER ON MARS


Dr. Gilbert V. Levin, Mars Viking Experimenter, today reported
on his study that water exists on the red planet's surface in
sufficient amounts to sustain microbial life. His *findings
(link to full published paper - Stig) were presented to the
Annual Meeting of the Society of Photo-Optical Instrumentation
Engineers (SPIE) in San Diego. Dr. Levin, President of
Biospherics in Beltsville, Maryland, shared authorship with his
son, Dr. Ron Levin, physicist at the MIT Lincoln Laboratory in
Boston. The importance of the study, Dr. Gilbert Levin said, is
that it clinches the case that his Viking LR experiment found
life on Mars in 1976, a conclusion that he announced in 1997.

In recent years, all arguments against the LR experiment had
been eliminated except the claim that there was no
life-requiring liquid water on the surface of the red planet.
Last February, in discussing Mars against the background of
startling new findings of life in hostile Earth environments,
Dr. Wesley Huntress, NASA's Associate Administrator for Space
Science, said: "We used to think that life was fragile, but
wherever liquid water and chemical energy are found, there is
life. There is no exception. Life may be a cosmic imperative."

Dr. Levin described a dynamic daily cycle on Mars in which the
extreme cold of the Martian atmosphere greatly restricts its
ability to hold water vapor. Thus, the scant water vapor on Mars
is forced down to the surface, where it is deposited in frozen
form. As the sun rises, the ice melts, but its evaporation is
restricted by the low vapor capacity of the overlying cold
atmosphere. Levin cited Pathfinder's results to show that the
atmosphere immediately above the surface warms considerably,
equaling a spring day on Earth, but, just a couple of feet above
the surface, temperatures are sub-freezing. The warmed surface
layer of air absorbs water vapor until saturated. No more water
can then evaporate from the surface, and the ice remaining there
melts into liquid water. As the sun mounts, the temperature of
the atmosphere above the surface warms sufficiently to permit
any remaining water and ice to evaporate. However, during this
daily cycle, the soil has been moistened with enough water to
sustain microorganisms.

Dr. Levin explained: "Based on Viking and Pathfinder data, and
consistent with the principles of thermodynamics of the triple
point of water, a model has been created for a diurnal water
cycle on Mars. The model predicts the presence of several tenths
of a percent to one percent water moisture in the topmost layer
of the surface material over large regions of Mars. Images taken
by the Viking Lander cameras show nightly deposits of surface
water frost, even snow, verifying the prediction of the model.
Terrestrial experiments in natural environments, including the
Death Valley sand dunes of California, demonstrated that the
amount of soil water moisture predicted by the model is
sufficient to sustain survival and growth of common soil
microorganisms." Levin states: "This model removes the final
constraint preventing acceptance of the biological
interpretation of the Viking LR Mars data as having detected
living microorganisms in the soil of Mars. It comes at a time
when a growing body of evidence from the Earth and space are
supporting the presence of life not only on Mars, but on many
celestial bodies." As a result, Levin pressed for early Mars
biology missions, none of which is currently planned by NASA, to
verify and study life forms, and for caution in current plans
for returning a Mars sample to Earth.

Under its motto, "Technologies for Information and Health,"
Biospherics' mission is to provide guidance and products to
improve the quality of life. In addition to its BioTechnology
unit, the Company offers telecommunications and database
management information, and proprietary environmental, food and
medical innovations.


Our Internet address is: http://www.biospherics.com.


*Biospherics Main

*Press Release Index


Copyright =A9 1998 Biospherics Inc.






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                        ORB activity on Lake Ontario

From: Jennifer Jarvis <fierycelt@full-moon.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:50:14 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 00:03:27 -0400
Subject: ORB activity on Lake Ontario

Hi Errol and list,

We have put up some stills from video that I filmed on June 8th
from Niagara on the Lake, plus a short report.

The link to these images and report is on the Home Page of
ORBWATCH.

I hope that these are of some interest.

Best wishes.

JJ

"It is a strange place where ships, planes and people vanish
into thin air, where weird fogs and globes of light abound,
where ominous waters shroud sinister events."

Hugh Cochrane, "Gateway to Oblivion."

*******************************************
Please visit our website "ORBWATCH" at

http://www.per.to/orbwatch

*******************************************







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                             Re: Klass Question

From: Karl T. Pflock <Ktperehwon@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:07:20 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 00:01:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Klass Question

GREETINGS, LIST SLAVES --

Scott Jordan asked:

>Is Philip Klass the 60s science fiction writer William Tenn?
>Can anyoneanswer this?

Nope, different guy altogether--altho' "our" Phil does write a
lot of (bad) science fiction without labeling it as such.

-- Cheers, KARL





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                             Re: Meier Pictures

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:03:29 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 00:16:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Meier Pictures

>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:41:31 -0700
>From: Don Ecker <decker@ufomag.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Meier Pictures

>>From: The Duke of Mendoza - Peter Brookesmith <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: Meier Pictures
>>Sender: The Duke of Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>>

>>Couldn't resist this one. That above is true except that

>>(a) a crucial difference is the .223 is a jacketed round, while
>>.22 Long Rifle is a bare lead bullet (though it may be copper
>>washed);

>That is correct. I have fired thousands of rounds of both types.
>Plus the fact that the .223 (or 5.56 mm velocity is about 3200
>feet per second from the barrel of an M 16 rifle. The .22
>caliber LR round out of a standard .22 caliber rifle is a bit of
>1000 feet per second.


>>.22 WMR is a jacketed round, however, and is deadly - it
>>actually carries more kinetic energy than a .45 Colt ACP...



>Dear Duke.... wrong

<snip>

> But back to
>the reason I wrote this, the idea of comparing a .22 WMR to a
>.45 ACP as carrying more kinetic energy is just patently
r>idiculous. Kind of like comparing a small stone to a huge block
>of granite. Don (love that .45 ACP) Ecker Been there, and DONE
>THAT!

Don't forget that the definition of "kinetic energy" is the
product of the mass times the velocity squared. If I knew th
speed and mass of the .22 WNR I could calculate its K.E. and
compare with the 45 (234 grain, 870 ft/sec; KE = 234 x 870^2 =
177,114,600 in the appropriate units.





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                    Re: TV Documentaries On Greer's Ideas

From: Jennifer Jarvis <fierycelt@full-moon.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 22:24:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 00:21:18 -0400
Subject: Re: TV Documentaries On Greer's Ideas


> From: Greg St. Peirre
> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 06:52:18 EDT
> Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:02:57 -0400
> Subject: Re: TV Documentaries On Greer's Ideas

> Dear list,

> For what it's worth, Steven Greer claims to have aquired a great
> deal of video footage from his "CE-5s". He will not release any
> of this footage or allow it to be studied independently. I saw
> one or two seconds of it on a TV show, and admittedly it looked
> interesting, but that's ALL I've ever seen. Anyone ever see
> more?

> Greg

Hi Greg et al.

I have seen _lots_. I worked with Steven in Crestone, Co.  in
1996. We saw lots.

There were numerous disks at zenith, playing games and moving
around. A large crown-like craft  appeared from the south over
Alamosa, and various strange lights appeared over the Sangre de
Cristo mountains, and then just bumbled off again.

It would seem that wherever Steven is, STUFF HAPPENS.

Just my threepence worth!

JJ


--
"It is a strange place where ships, planes and
people vanish into thin air, where weird fogs and
globes of light abound, where ominous waters
shroud sinister events."

Hugh Cochrane, "Gateway to Oblivion."

*******************************************
Please visit our website "ORBWATCH" at

http://www.per.to/orbwatch

*******************************************







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                      New Web Site for Stanton Friedman

From: Stanton T. Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 22:12:39 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 00:33:35 -0400
Subject: New Web Site for Stanton Friedman


I would like to inform those on this list, and any others who
might be interested, that, thanks to the efforts of Dave
Vetterick and Joshua Shapiro, I once again have a web site:

http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html.

My previous partner had left town. It will include short pieces
as well as my lecture schedule in Australia for 11 cities in
August..








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                    Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 00:08:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 00:24:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs


>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 18:31:34 +0100
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>From: John Rimmer <j_rimmer@library.croydon.gov.uk>
>Subject: Migraines and UFOs

>>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>>Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:33:12 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs
>>To: updates@globalserve.net

>For the benefit of a number of people on this list, may I
>repeat: John Harney is _not_ proposing a universal theory of UFO
>origin, merely suggesting that _some_ otherwise puzzling UFO
>report might be explained by some of the medical symptoms of
>migraine.

I'm not going to spend a lot of time on this sort of thing. I can't
think of anyone who misunderstood the degree to which Mr. Harney
attempted to apply his explanation. For that matter, I put several
paragraphs of analysis as to why that was a problem - specifically
those paragraphs referring to the burden shouldered by those
who claim that wildly dissimilar causes generate a similar
phenomenon - UFOs. Perhaps Mr. Rimmer failed to read
that material.

>Cashman seems curiously over-eager to discount the possibility
>that _any_ UFO reports could be the result of migraine, to the
>extent of refusing to read the only easily accessible book on
>the topic.

It is not "curiously over-eager to discount the possibility" to
point out what scientific rigor requires of the hypothesizer.
That burden was not met by the author of the hypothesis. I don't
need to know anything about migranes to know when someone isn't
following the scientific method. I provided several paragraphs
of methodological critique addressing that very point, but
apparently the only part which was read by Mr. Rimmer (or Mr.
Irving), was the part where I said I wasn't going to bother to
read the book.

I would appreciate it if, in the future, those who think my
criticism was too harsh or was inappropriate would demonstrate
how the article's hypothesis was formulated in accordance with
commonly accepted scientific principles, since I have clearly
demonstrated that it was not.

>He is keen to point out all the things an investigator should do
>to prove a linkage between UFO experiences and migraine:

No, I am keen to point out what is required of anyone who makes
the claim that _any_ UFO report is caused by migrane if they
wish their claim to be taken seriously. Perhaps things work
differently in whatever community Magonia is presented, but in
the scientific community, certain things are required when a
hypothesis is advanced. See my original message for details on
what those things are.

>I agree, but Sacks' book suggests that this might not be as easy
>to find out as Cashman thinks.

The hypothesis should not have been advanced if no
substantiation exists.

>Perhaps he _should_ read the book
>after all. He'd be very scathing if I said I wouldn't read any
>astronomy textbooks because I'd already decided the topic had
>nothing to do with UFOs.

Actually, I'd only be scathing if you refused to read UFO books.

I'll only care about your astronomical reading habits when we
discuss, say, stellar evolution.

And please focus yOur comments on the substance of my objections
if you expect anyone to take you seriously.

>He also suggest that we should demonstrate 'a continuum of
>migraine experiences from the most headache like to the most
>close encounter-like'. Well hang on a minute. We've only been
>talking about this for a couple of days and you want a full
>research programme already?

You mean there is no pre-existing reason to suppose this
hypothesis accounts for the phenomenon it is advanced to
explain?

I thought the book clearly suggested to the author of the
article the connection. Yet, as I spent a lot of words pointing
out, the connection is tenuous to even the most methodologically
generous.

Let me point out, yet again, that there is no doubt that there
are thousands of hours of research on migrane sufferers. In
fact, as I write this, I hear a commercial that points out all
of the special testing done by Excedrin to determine the
effectiveness of their new migrane formulation. Surely, if the
hypothesis were true, somewhere in all of the literature
generated by all of the studies done by all of the
pharmaceutical companies, there would be one close encounter
experienced under laboratory conditions.

So what I am saying is that there has already been a research
effort underway for a number of years, and since the author did
not advance any good migrane case with any real resemblance to a
UFO case, I must assume this means that no such case exists in
the literature. At this point, should I begin a literature
search to take care of the due diligence which should have been
performed by Mr Harney? I think not. It is Mr. Harney's
responsibility to convince us that his ideas have merit. It is
not for us to do his research for him.

I recently posted a long document on UFO luminosity to the list.
Before presenting that document I read thousands of pages of UFO
literature, personally cataloged over 500 UFO cases, inspected
numerous UFO photographs for hours, performed image processing,
and read additional hundreds of pages on plasma physics, lasers,
and atmospheric ionization, including auroras and ball
lightning. All to produce that one document. I did not ask Mr.
Rimmer or Mr. Harney to read that material for me. I sought
critical or helpful comments on the resulting document. I did
not complain when they came to me (thanks to all of those who
offered comments, suggestions or requested clarification). I
continue to hope for more, but I know what my burden is when
making a proposal.

> I thought the idea of putting a
> suggestion like this up an a mailing list was so that people
> could look at whether or not evidence existed. The particular
> caser which John Harney mentioned in "ETH Bulletin" was _not_
> presented as "best evidence", simply a convenient comparison
> which was to hand and seemed to have a number of relevant
> features.

If you don't make your best case in your first example, why
should anyone pay attention to what you have to say? If Mr.
Harney can't find a better case, he should wait until he can
find one less convenient but more relevant. As for the Oakenson
case, let him or you put forth the facts in adherence to the
scientific method.

> Rob Irving's contribution about St Hildegard also suggests a
> possible line of study.

It is impossible to determine if someone dead for about 800
years was a migrane sufferer. Therefore I find it impossible to
determine what line of study this could represent.

> Are the ETH-as-a-possible-explanation crew _really_ so
> closed-minded that they have to jump, with very heavy boots, on
> other theories?

Does Mr. Rimmer think science should make a special exception
for Magonia writers, in terms of acceptable methodology? Or is
there one standard for scientists and another for those who
oppose UFOs?

Mr. Rimmer, you are the editor of a publication. That role comes
with a responsibility to make sure that the facts are checked,
and that the article is self-consistent and carries its burden.
Otherwise, Magonia is just one more source of noise on an
already too noisy Internet.

Apparently my "heavy boots" made an impression. I wish the
impression it had made on Mr. Rimmer was one which was such that
he would take the time to offer a rational and focused critique
of any methodological errors I made in criticising Mr. Harney's
work.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/library.htm
------






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                             Re: Klass Question

From: Rebecca <XianneKei@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 00:40:24 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 09:42:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Klass Question

> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 04:01:38 -0400
>  From: Scott Jordan <sjordan@sympatico.ca>
>  To: updates@globalserve.net
>  Subject: Klass Question


>  Is Philip Klass the 60s science fiction writer William Tenn?
>  Can anyoneanswer this ?

No.





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                      Re: Triangular UFOs over Belgium

From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 23:54:12 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:14:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Triangular UFOs over Belgium


>Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:56:04 -0400
>From: The Duke of Mendoza - Peter Brookesmith
       <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Triangular UFOs over Belgium
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Triangular UFOs over Belgium
>>Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 11:53:17 -0400


[...]

>But if the
>rest of this post is an example of "truth" as sought by
>ufologists, then Serge is hereby appointed Archbishop of the
>Church of St Ananias and the Latterday Martyrs of Ufodom. His
>Most Reverence's administrative duties will include taking
>confession from the Boy Bishop of Canby, reciting to him Biblical
>passages on the virtues of humility, and ensuring that he puts on
>a clean hair shirt every day. Bishop Jerome will return the favor
>by giving Archbishop Salvolatile daily instruction in the ethics
>of accurate reporting, and taking a measure of the Archbishop's
>bullshit quotient twice a day, with powerful enemas to be
>administered immediately should the reading exceed 3 parts per
>million. You can look forward to a long course of treatment,
>Serge.

>[...]
>
>Bishop Jerome belongs to an altogether higher church, of course,
>where incense (sometimes used as a verb as well as a ritual
>fragrance) and casuistry are much in vogue.


Duke,

You have your references all mixed up, Archbishops fit in a
highly structured organization (such as the Catholic Church)
kept together with rigorous discipline through widespread
dogmatism. In such a system, obedience is the rule, Public
criticism of this system will have you excommunicated,

You will agree that ufology is exactly the opposite of that: it
is mostly unstructured, it is not unified, Voices can be heard
from almost every direction, Ufologists don't seem to be tender
towards one another, but the constant questioning of respective
positions and opinions and feelings makes the confusion only
apparent: in the end, you get a pretty good idea of what is
really happening in the field, This is called freedom of
expression: it is the seed of knowledge.

From an outside point of view, the skeptics are exactly the
opposite, They behave like members of a church: they look very
unified, never questioning their peers, and engaged in a battle
against ufheretics.

I have been reading and thinking about UFOs for 30-35 years now.
I have been a member of this List for more than 1.5 years, I
have never seen or read or heard a skeptic criticize in the most
remote way another skeptic, You don't even see that in
mainstream science where debates among peers are common place,
How strange for a group that has self-appointed itself the
crusaders of science.

Hence my surprise with this whole archbishop stuff, You seem to
have understood the principle but have applied it the wrong way,
The skeptics behave like archbishops, You pretend you have
embraced a cause Duke but - don't puke - you have ended up
kissing each other's asses.

This _you_ is independant from any _we_, I am not saying _we_,
the ufologists... I am not a ufologist, But I dare say _you_,
the skeptics, are counterproductive, YOU feed on ufology but
bring nothing back to your host, This his the quintescence of
parasitism, I dare say YOU are betraying yourselves: the credo
of the skeptics should be "let's look into it" - the prelude to
every adventure - not "I believe only in skepticism" which is
the closest thing to 4_letter_word + "ing" + space + yourself.

I will leave you Duke with this token of sanity, It comes from
the part 1 of the last 2 episodes of the famous paranoid(?!?) -
cult series the Prisonner, It goes something like this.

No. 2:
- You are a fool!

No. 6:
- A fool, yes, not a rat!


Enjoy,

Serge Salvaille






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                      Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS

From: Stanton T. Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:22:15 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:08:39 -0400
Subject: Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS


>From: Robert Todd <RTodd12191@aol.com>
>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 04:50:04 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS

>>Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 17:43:46 -0300
>>From: Stanton T. Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS

><snip>

>>Corso's connection with the NSC wasn't classified. The NSC is a
>>Statutory organization..

<snip>

>Stan, have you become a member of the government's cover-up?
>Surely Corso could have had an unclassified involvement with the
>NSC, and a highly-classified part not reflected in the merely
>top-secret stuff, in much the same way that Twining, in
>reporting to his superiors, lied about not having any crashed
>saucers in the possession of the Air Force. Hell, if Twining
>would lie to his superiors as you and Randle allege, why
>wouldn't the NSC lie to other members of the NSC, and doctor the
>official records to conceal Corso's super-duper,
>tippy-top-secret duties with the NSC? They wouldn't even have to
>doctor the records, but just keep the super-duper-secret stuff
>out of the hands of the Eisenhower Library. Absence of evidence
>is not evidence of absence. If it's good enough for MJ-12, then,
>dammit, it's good enough for Corso too.

<snip>

>I'm certain that, like the mythical MJ-12, Corso's _real_ duties
>with the NSC were _so_ tippy-top-secret that you aren't going
>to find them among the merely top-secret holdings of the NSC.
>You're gonna have to peek at the SCI and ESI stuff -- but we all
>know MJ-12 will never let that happen, although I'm certain
>there are members of the current MJ-12 who really want the truth
>to come out - you know, the guys who helped you and Bill Moore
>out by furnishing all those Top Secret/Majic documents.

>I shudder to think what nefarious activities Corso was involved
>in that the NSC and MJ-12 feel they must hide the details of his
>_true_ involvement with the NSC. I think we have a second Cosmic
>Watergate here. Maybe Corso was deeply involved officially with
>crashed saucers a lot earlier than he led us to believe in his
>book. I understand he imparted startling information to his son
>just prior to his death. Maybe he even had records to support
>his statements, and perhaps his son will release them in the
>not-too-distant future.

>Besides, not _all_ NSC records were transferred to the
>Eisenhower Library. Maybe the records detailing Corso's _real_,
>super-duper, tippy-top-secret duties are still held by the NSC.
>If I were you, I'd file a FOIA with the NSC. And, if necessary,
>you can take it all the way to the Supreme Court, just like you
>did with the CAUS lawsuit against the NSA. If anybody can do it,
>you can. I have faith in you, and I know you won't let me down.

>>Last I heard, there were 11 different finders Aids for the NSC
>>files alone of about 250,000 pages. At one time 50,000 pages
>>were still classified.. but major effort is being made to review
>>those.

>Ahhh, that's what they _want_ you to believe. And they probably
>have withheld only those records dealing with MJ-12 and Corso's
>tippy-top-secret NSC duties, which are not reflected in the
>merely top-secret records. Surely they must consider Corso _as_
>important as your "ground breaking" research into the MJ-12
>documents.

>>It is really a great place to do research. Bob and other
>>armchair theorists ought to try it.

>This armchair researcher can out-research you any day of the
>week.

>>Phil Klass might have saved
>>himself the 1000$ he paid me for providing 10+ NSC documents
>>done in the large Pica Type, if he had gone there instead of ,
>>like Bob, doing his research from his armchair and claiming that
>>elite type was it at the NSC.

>Be careful with your wording there, Stan. Don't claim that I
>ever claimed anything about pica or elite type, as might be
>assumed from your (deliberately?) poorly worded sentence.

<snip>

>Remember, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. You
>just gotta keep looking, Stan. Trust me. Corso's secret
>involvement with the NSC is every bit as important to ufology as
>your MJ-12 is.


Bob,

If you have any data  on Corso, why not put it on the table?

I said nothing about your saying anything about Pica or elite
type.

Why not also put on the table how many visits you have made to
Archives and how many visits to New Mexico and how many Roswell
witnesses to whom you have talked?

Last I heard the number for at least the first 2 was zero.
Armchairs are indeed comfortable.

Membership in the NSC is determined by law.

I do appreciate your demonstrating your illogicality and bias.

With regard to your research skills, just how many papers have
you published in scientific journals?

STF





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                             Re: Klass Question

From: Stanton T. Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:13:38 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:10:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Klass Question


> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 04:01:38 -0400
> From: Scott Jordan <sjordan@sympatico.ca>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Klass Question

> Is Philip Klass the 60s science fiction writer William Tenn?
> Can anyoneanswer this ?

There are 2 Philip Klass'. The debunker is not the science fiction





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                    Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs

From: RobIrving@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 01:05:01 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:16:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs


>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs
>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 10:49:35 -0400

Greg,

>But Rob has now taken this to another level .Mark criticizes
>Harney, saying his citations from Oliver Sacks don't prove his
>point. Rob jumps in, saying "But you didn't read this OTHER
>Sacks book," one Harney hadn't even mentioned. So it's not
>enough for skeptics to ask Mark to find Harney's missing (and
>crucial) descriptor. Now they want him to do Harney's research!

You appear to have missed my point again. My post referred to
this statement of Mark's:

>it also shows no reason to be considered an explanation of UFOs
>since the migrane case cited, presumably the best (i.e. closest
>to the UFO experience) has no UFO content...

I merely pointed out that St Hildegard's 'visions', which Sacks
claims were caused by migrane, apparently did have similarities
to the UFO experience, whatever that is.

Rob





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                             Re: Klass Question

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 07:08:45 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:43:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Klass Question


>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 12:30:00 -0700
>From: Don Ecker <decker@ufomag.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Klass Question

>>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 04:01:38 -0400
>>From: Scott Jordan <sjordan@sympatico.ca>
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Klass Question

>>Is Philip Klass the 60s science fiction writer William Tenn?
>>Can anyone answer this ?

>The short answer is yes.

>Don Ecker


Don,

What makes you think this?

I know Phil, and actually like him. I think he serves a useful
purpose in ufology by clearly defining the ultimate skeptic. We
don't need to build straw men as long as Phil is around.

However, after talking to Phil at some length, I can say that he
could not possibly be ANY sci-fi writer. Writing sci-fi takes
imagination, and this is something that Phil is completely
lacking.

He does, on the other hand, have a sense of humor. This is the
second essential for writing good sci-fi.

Bob







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                P-1947: Fred Whiting on Roswell - Post Script

From: Herb Taylor <HerbUFO@AOL.COM>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 18:42:26 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 11:33:05 -0400
Subject: P-1947: Fred Whiting on Roswell - Post Script

Greetings to the List:

My recent posting concerning the Roswell views of Fred Whiting
did not include the following important comments. They are as
follows;


"(On a personal note: I have two coffee mugs that I keep as
reminders of these two basic truths.

One has a reproduction of the Roswell Daily Record article
announcing the recovery of a "flying saucer" - a valued gift
from Karl Pflock.

The second has the logo of the Fund for UFO Research.

I keep the first to remind me not to believe everything I see;
the second reminds me not to trust everyone I know.)"


The meaning of the above should be clear to all of us. It says
much about the current state of ufology. We dismiss these keen
observations at our own risk.

Regards, Herb Taylor





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                    [lunascan]: The Dark Side of The Moon

From: slk <slk@evansville.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 06:58:17 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:46:09 -0400
Subject: [lunascan]: The Dark Side of The Moon

On Wed, 22 Jul 1998 23:19:29, Sal Sommatino <ftgraphics@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>I was just talking to a friend of mine, and he was teling me
>that there is a DARK SIDE OF THE MOON,
>the way he explain to me was that there is a side of the moon
>that doesn't reflect sunlight and thats why we get the different
>faces of the moon.

>Do you know anything about this?
>can you please E mail me any information you have on this, I would
>really appreciate it.

>Thank you very much.
>Marv.

Hi Marv, List,

Some people confuse "darkside" & "backside". To visualize the changing
darkside, take a look at this great animation:

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/5409/lunation.gif

Fran

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE LUNASCAN PROJECT (TLP): An Earth-Based Telescopic Imaging (EBTI)
program using live and recorded CCD technology to document and record
Lunar Transient Phenomena (TLPs).

The Lunascan Project HomePage
http://www.evansville.net/~slk/lshomepage.html

The Project's Mission Statement :
http://www.evansville.net/~slk/miss.html





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                             Re: Meier Pictures

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 12:31:33 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 12:50:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Meier Pictures


> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:03:29 -0400
> From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Kinetic Energy Bullets
> To: updates@globalserve.net

> >Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:41:31 -0700
> >From: Don Ecker <decker@ufomag.com>
> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Meier Pictures

<snip>

> Don't forget that the definition of "kinetic energy" is the
> product of the mass times the velocity squared. If I knew the
> speed and mass of the .22 WNR I could calculate its K.E. and
> compare with the 45 (234 grain, 870 ft/sec; KE = 234 x 870^2 =
> 177,114,600 in the appropriate units.

Bruce, looks like you also forgot the definition of kinetic
energy (the energy of moving objects).  It is equal to the mass
times the velocity squared divided by 2.  As a result, your
value above is twice as large as it should be.

Of course, if a given mass is totally converted into energy,
then the energy obtained is the product of the mass time the
velocity of light squared (Einstein's mass-energy formula).

Nick








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                             Re: Klass Question

From: Paul Thompson <MrApol@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 13:42:45 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 14:49:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Klass Question

Philip Klass was a mathematics professor who wrote science
fiction under the pen name William Tenn.

Philip J. Klass is a former editor of "Aviation Week & Space
Technology" magazine and the well known UFO skeptic. They are not
the same man. Some authorities (like Baird Searles "A Reader's
Guide to Science Fiction") claim they are the same man, but
they're not. I know Philip J. Klass (UFO skeptic) and I've seen
photos of "William Tenn." They ain't the same fella. I believe
"Tenn" died back in the early 80s, and Phil Klass is still alive,
much to many believers' chagrin.

Paul Thompson
ParaScope





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                        Re: Philip Mantle 'Signs-off'

From: Bruno Mancusi <Bruno.Mancusi@com.mcnet.ch>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 20:32:01 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 14:41:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Philip Mantle 'Signs-off'

>Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:56:41 +0000
>From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Signing Off

>Dear Friends and Colleagues,

>I have to inform you that I am pulling out of ufology for an
>indefinate period. This has not been an easy decision to reach
>as I have been actively involved for nearly 20 years.

Philip,

I will never forget the scene I have assisted at the 3rd San
Marino congress in 1995. It was Saturday 20 May. You gave your
lecture about the Santilli's footage at 12:00. After the lecture
of Susan Karaban I went to lunch to the Grand Hotel. After the
lunch I saw some people and gendarmes in the lobby of the hotel;
what's going on I asked them? You and Chris Cary (a Santilli
associate) were going to show some slides from the movie! It was
a surrealistic scene: the gendarmes were there to frisk us.
There was also a female gendarme for the women. All cameras were
forbidden. I thought "If the footage is a hoax, these gendarmes
are participating in a fraud"! It was 3:15 p.m. when you and
Cary began the show. There were about 30 people in attendance.
Later, there was a second show at the congress place (Teatro
Titano) on 7:30 p.m. with more people.

Now that you are going to resign from ufology, can you say us at
last what was your real involvement in this "Roswell autopsy"
story? Why have you accepted to help Ray Santilli to put in
touch with the ufological milieu? Have you received money from
him? How much?

I think that many list members would be interested in your
response.

Thank you in advance.

Bruno Mancusi
Switzerland





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                             Re: Meier Pictures

From: Don Ecker <decker@ufomag.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 11:07:08 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 14:58:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Meier Pictures


>Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 12:31:33 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Meier Pictures

>>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:03:29 -0400
>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Kinetic Energy Bullets
>>To: updates@globalserve.net

>>>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:41:31 -0700
>>>From: Don Ecker <decker@ufomag.com>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Meier Pictures

><snip>

>>Don't forget that the definition of "kinetic energy" is the
>>product of the mass times the velocity squared. If I knew the
>>speed and mass of the .22 WNR I could calculate its K.E. and
>>compare with the 45 (234 grain, 870 ft/sec; KE = 234 x 870^2 =
>>177,114,600 in the appropriate units.

>Bruce, looks like you also forgot the definition of kinetic
>energy (the energy of moving objects).  It is equal to the mass
>times the velocity squared divided by 2.  As a result, your
>value above is twice as large as it should be.

>Of course, if a given mass is totally converted into energy,
>then the energy obtained is the product of the mass time the
>velocity of light squared (Einstein's mass-energy formula).

>Nick

Gentlemen;

Let us not forget what we are referencing. The kinetic energy of
a .45 ACP 234 Grn. projectile in comparison to a .22 WMR
projectile. Neither a .45 nor a .22 will be totally converted
into energy. This is a bit simpler than that. Brooksmith
suggested that a .22 caliber bullet will deliver, weighing
between 45 to perhaps 60 Grns. traveling around 1000 to perhaps
1150 fps., depending on the loading, will give more energy to
the target than a .45 ACP, weighing between 185 Grns. lower end,
to 234 Grns. upper end. The velocity from a 185 Grn. "hollow
point" or controlled expansion projectile, around 1000 feet per
second, or the heavier 234 Grn. round at about 870 feet per
second. You can play with the math, but real experience taught
me that if I have to be shot, and I have no option, use the .22
over the .45 PLEASE!!

Don Ecker

--
Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with
confidence.
Don Ecker
UFO Magazine
www.ufomagazine.com


[Gentlemen:

 I'm trying to figure how this relates to the purpose
 of this List..... am having difficuly. Could someone
 please give my brain a nudge or failing that take
 this tangent to direct E-Mail? --ebk]






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                   Baffling Crop Formations In Cache, Utah

From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 21:06:56 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 17:26:22 -0400
Subject: Baffling Crop Formations In Cache, Utah


From: The Deseret News

URL: http://www.desnews.com/cit/wr0me6y5.htm

Cache Valley is located in North Eastern Utah's Bridgerland,
which is bordering Idaho and Wyoming. The valley is fertile with
lakes and streams and surrounded by the Wellsville Mountains on
the west and the Bear River Range on the east.


Stig


*******


Baffling crop formations appear in Cache for 3rd year in a row


Pattern found near area's first crop circle


Last updated 07/24/1998, 10:26 a.m. MT


By Zack Van Eyck Deseret News staff writer

Unusual crop formations have appeared in the Cache Valley for
the third consecutive summer.

A pattern of flattened plants, stretching 316 feet from end to
end, was discovered Tuesday in a field in College Ward, a few
miles from Providence where the area's first so-called crop
circle was found in August 1996.

A second design was observed from the air Wednesday near Cove,
close to the Idaho border, by Davis County researcher Ryan
Layton. Layton had rented a small plane, along with Cache County
residents Con Olsen and Tres Nixon, to get a better look at the
College Ward formation.

Layton, who has taken samples from previous Utah crop circles
for study by former University of Michigan professor W.C.
Levengood, said the Cove formation is particularly intriguing
because there were no visible tracks leading into it. He said
Thursday he hopes to gain permission from the landowner to enter
that field and study the Cove design.

"There is no appearance of human intervention on location
there," said Layton, who believes most crop circles likely are
the work of "advanced beings of some type of intelligence not
known to our realm or dimension."

The College Ward design features a flattened ring 102 feet in
diameter and a second ring measuring 46 feet that is encompassed
by two half circles, Layton said. The Cove formation has a large
central ring surrounded by two more flattened rings and two
circles, he said.

Similar formations have been observed in fields of wheat, barley
and other crops worldwide, particularly in the 1980s and 1990s.
Two prominent formations were discovered in the Cache Valley
during the second week of July last year, one in Smithfield and
one four miles to the north near Crow Hill.

Layton informed a national radio audience about the new Cache
formations Wednesday night on "Coast to Coast with Art Bell,"
aired locally on KNRS, 570-AM. He was joined on the broadcast by
Boise native Linda Moulton Howe, who has investigated crop
circles, UFOs and other unexplained phenomena for two decades.

Layton is convinced the formations are some kind of encoded
message intended for humans. The hope of discovering just what
that message might be is what drives him, and others, to
investigate the mystery firsthand.

The Cache County Sheriff's Department took a look at the crop
circle formed two years ago in Providence, suspecting pranksters
were to blame, but made no arrests. It also speculated the
design could be the work of hungry gophers.





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                        Re: Philip Mantle 'Signs-off'

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 16:52:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 17:32:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Philip Mantle 'Signs-off'

>Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 20:32:01 +0200
>From: Bruno Mancusi <Bruno.Mancusi@com.mcnet.ch>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Philip Mantle 'Signs-off'/Santilli's footage


>Now that you are going to resign from ufology, can you say us at
>last what was your real involvement in this "Roswell autopsy"
>story? Why have you accepted to help Ray Santilli to put in
>touch with the ufological milieu? Have you received money from
>him? How much?

>I think that many list members would be interested in your
>response.

>Thank you in advance.

>Bruno Mancusi
>Switzerland

Bruno-

While your questions are valid ones, I don't think you had to
wait for Philip's withdrawal from active research to ask them..
Unfortunately, the questions also seem to assume information
that (in a legal sense) has not been submitted into evidence.

I have seen no evidence that Philip's involvement in this was
anything more than he has acknowledged from the beginning.. His
position at the time with BUFORA would make him a natural
contact as far as Santilli was concerned. Since many in UFOlogy
are willing to accept the validity of evidence until proven
otherwise, his reaction to (and involvement with) Santilli in
this matter was certainly not all that unusual. It's important
to keep in mind that Philip is the one who has submitted some of
the most damning evidence during the past few weeks.

Philip can answer the questions you pose if he feels the need,
but I see no reason to imply improper conduct without more than
speculation to go on.

Steve






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                             Re: Meier Pictures

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 17:16:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 17:41:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Meier Pictures


>Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 11:07:08 -0700
>From: Don Ecker <decker@ufomag.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Meier Pictures

>>Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 12:31:33 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
>>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Meier Pictures

>>>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:03:29 -0400
>>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Kinetic Energy Bullets
>>>To: updates@globalserve.net

>>>>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:41:31 -0700
>>>>From: Don Ecker <decker@ufomag.com>
>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Meier Pictures

>><snip>

>>>Don't forget that the definition of "kinetic energy" is the
>>>product of the mass times the velocity squared. If I knew the
>>>speed and mass of the .22 WNR I could calculate its K.E. and
>>>compare with the 45 (234 grain, 870 ft/sec; KE = 234 x 870^2 =
>>>177,114,600 in the appropriate units.

>>Bruce, looks like you also forgot the definition of kinetic
>>energy (the energy of moving objects).  It is equal to the mass
>>times the velocity squared divided by 2.  As a result, your
>>value above is twice as large as it should be.

>>Of course, if a given mass is totally converted into energy,
>>then the energy obtained is the product of the mass time the
>>velocity of light squared (Einstein's mass-energy formula).

>>Nick

>Gentlemen;

>Let us not forget what we are referencing. The kinetic energy of
>a .45 ACP 234 Grn. projectile in comparison to a .22 WMR
>projectile. Neither a .45 nor a .22 will be totally converted
>into energy. This is a bit simpler than that. Brooksmith
>suggested that a .22 caliber bullet will deliver, weighing
>between 45 to perhaps 60 Grns. traveling around 1000 to perhaps
>1150 fps., depending on the loading, will give more energy to
>the target than a .45 ACP, weighing between 185 Grns. lower end,
>to 234 Grns. upper end. The velocity from a 185 Grn. "hollow
>point" or controlled expansion projectile, around 1000 feet per
>second, or the heavier 234 Grn. round at about 870 feet per
>second. You can play with the math, but real experience taught
>me that if I have to be shot, and I have no option, use the .22
>over the .45 PLEASE!!

>Don Ecker
>
>--
>Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with
>confidence.
>Don Ecker
>UFO Magazine
>www.ufomagazine.com

>[Gentlemen:

> I'm trying to figure how this relates to the purpose
> of this List..... am having difficuly. Could someone
> please give my brain a nudge or failing that take
> this tangent to direct E-Mail? --ebk]

Errol,

You just don't understand! See, if Nick's response to Bruce is
traveling at a speed of 89.9 mps. and approaching at a 45 degree
angle to the ecliptic plane, the momentum of Don's contribution
will introduce a random element of increased entropy. This,
according to Einstien, will cause the mass of the dialog to
impact on all three objects (Bruce, Nick and Don) simultaneously,
causing anal retention on a Galactic scale.

And in some way that I haven't yet figured out, (I've have difficulties
doing math) we are all going to be shot in the head, (and preferably
with the .45! You don't want that .22 rattling around in your skull
processing your brain like liver in a blender,) or at this point in
the thread, we hope we will be. Ah, at least I 'think' that's what
they're talking about. I hope this alters your tangent for you.
Now do you understand?

C'mon dude, get on the stick. It's the, "kOoKy WoRld oF sCieNcE !"

(LMAO!) Thanx for the roll on the floor man! ;-D

John Velez, (S.)M.o.-A.t.S.o.T
(Stationary) Moving object- About the Size of Texas

[Dang! An' here ah thort _ah_ wuz loozin' it wunerin' whut
 it haid ta doo with yew-foes! TGIF-- ebk]





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                 Re: Baffling Crop Formations In Cache, Utah

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 18:16:45 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 18:24:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Baffling Crop Formations In Cache, Utah

>From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 21:06:56 +0200
>Subject: Baffling Crop Formations In Cache, Utah, For 3rd Year In A Row


>From: The Deseret News

>The Cache County Sheriff's Department took a look at the crop
>circle formed two years ago in Providence, suspecting pranksters
>were to blame, but made no arrests. It also speculated the
>design could be the work of hungry gophers.


OH SURE!!!!  Hungry gophers. Must be some damned big varmints out
there.  I guess they dance around in circles during the full moon,
hungry gopher bellies growling loudly,and trample down the crops.

Sounds like these cops are on about the same IQ scale as their
imaginary gophers.

Bob







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                                     Re:

From: Robert Todd <RTodd12191@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 18:39:50 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 18:49:15 -0400
Subject: Re:


In a message dated 98-07-24 11:49:32 EDT, Stan Friedman wrote:

>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:22:15 -0300
>From: Stanton T. Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS

>>From: Robert Todd <RTodd12191@aol.com>
>>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 04:50:04 EDT
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS

>>>Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 17:43:46 -0300
>>>From: Stanton T. Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>>
>>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS

<snip>

>Bob,

>If you have any data on Corso, why not put it on the table?

Stan,

I have no information on Corso that needs to be placed on the
table. Corso himself has detailed his involvement in the Roswell
affair, but you seem to display a bias against Corso that I find
rather interesting, and I merely am pointing out how ridiculous
your position really is on a number of important points.

>I said nothing about your saying anything about Pica or elite
>type.

Your phrasing certainly could leave the reader with that
impression. I suggest you take a badly needed course in
writing.

>Why not also put on the table how many visits you have made to
>Archives and how many visits to New Mexico and how many Roswell
>witnesses to whom you have talked?

Prove I haven't visited even more archives than you have.
_You're_ the one making the claim I haven't visited any
archives -- PROVE IT! Just remember, absence of evidence
is not evidence of absence.

As for talking with Roswell witnesses, surely you're not
suggesting a reasonable assessment of those witnesses cannot be
derived from your representations of their testimony, are you?
I mean, you wouldn't alter or withhold witness testimony, would
you?

>Last I heard the number for at least the first 2 was zero.
>Armchairs are indeed comfortable.

Yes, indeed they are. You've certainly benefitted from my
research, the so-called "Bolender memo" being just one example,
a document you consistently misrepresent because you haven't
bothered to do the necessary research to fill in the blanks.
Perhaps you waste too much time tooting your own horn. Or
perhaps you _have_ filled in the blanks with your own research,
but, for some unknown reason, decided long ago to withhold the
truth from the public.

But I keep forgetting you were a member of the "research team"
that, when they couldn't find the documents they were sure
existed, created their own to fill in the gaps. Boy, that's
taking the easy way out! Talk about armchair research! And to
this day, you keep pushing those documents on the public. You
even wrangled a $16,000 grant from the Fund for UFO Research
(FUFOR) to research the contents of those documents, which had
been manufactured around documents and information your
"research team" already had uncovered during their years of
"archival research," "research" which apparently included
planting at least one fake document among the formerly Top
Secret records of Air Force Intelligence at the National
Archives. Gee, is it any wonder you were able to "confirm"
dates, places, and the names of the people present, when you
already had the information in your own files?

Yes, indeed. What a great researcher you are!.

>Membership in the NSC is determined by law.

If, as you contend, Roswell represents the biggest cover-up of
all time, exactly what has the law got to do with what the
"Cosmic Watergate" folks do? Covert ops don't care about no
stinking laws. Remember, they're everywhere, watching your
every move, almost certainly in violation of the law. The law is
meaningless tripe, and you know it.

Because you, the great archival researcher, cannot confirm
Corso's claims by utilizing the available documentation at the
Eisenhower Library, doesn't mean the man was fibbing. Once again
-- and I'm shocked you seem unable to grasp this simple point --
ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE IS NOT EVIDENCE OF ABSENCE. It's _YOUR_
pithy little saying -- if not your mantra -- and it applies to
Corso every bit as much as it applies to your beloved MJ-12,
_regardless_ of the law.

>I do appreciate your demonstrating your illogicality and bias.

Oh, Stan, you're more than welcome. But, again, I am shocked
that you don't recognize your own brand of "illogicality and
bias." In fact, you yourself are flagrantly guilty of every
crime of which you routinely accuse others, from selective
choice of data, to propaganda, to misrepresentation, to outright
lying. And, please, don't threaten me with a lawsuit, 'cause I'd
tear you apart in court.

>With regard to your research skills, just how many papers have
>you published in scientific journals?

Yeah, we all know you're God's gift to nuclear physics and UFO
research -- we know because you keep telling us, over, and
over, and over again. If your "scientific" papers on nuclear
physics are anything like your "scientific" papers on UFOs, I
shudder to think _anybody_ takes them seriously. It certainly
doesn't say much for refereed journals.

All that aside, surely you must consider Corso worthy of further
research. Why would a retired lieutenant colonel lie about such
things? If you believe Corso was lying, then perhaps he was part
of some government disinformation plot designed to derail your
inquisition into the "Cosmic Watergate." Let's get the facts
here, Stan, there must be _some_ reason Corso lied, if indeed he
did. Since he had documented ties to the NSC, and since you
claim he was not a member of the NSC, and you also claim
membership was dictated by law -- which we all know is a farce
anyway -- let's get some hard facts on this. I suggest you
launch an all-out effort to _prove_ Corso wasn't a member of the
NSC in violation of the law. After all, there is no
documentation _proving_ any of the twelve supposed members of
MJ-12 actually were in that group, or even that the MJ-12 group
existed at all, but you seem to accept that as fact. And since
it appears MJ-12 withholds vital information even from
Presidents of the United States, this means they are operating
outside the law as well, making your observation that NSC
membership is determined by law all but meaningless. Indeed, to
hear you tell it, the whole idea of the MJ-12 organization is
illegal as hell. I won't even mention the illegal death threats
supposedly delivered to key Roswell witnesses by the Air Force's
jack- booted Roswell cover-up thugs.

Again, I recommend you submit the appropriate FOIA requests to
the appropriate agencies, and if need be, take them all the way
to the Supreme Court, just like you did when you filed suit
against the NSA on behalf of CAUS years ago. If necessary -- and
it appears it will be -- I also would recommend you try to
cultivate some more of those infamous "inside sources" who
helped your "research team" so much in the past. Maybe one or
two "Deep Throats" can point you in the right direction, and
furnish you with records you cannot obtain under the FOIA,
perhaps by furnishing them on undeveloped rolls of black-and-
white, 35mm film, or by enticing you to an upstate New York
motel where they will allow you to photograph top-secret/code
word documents they pilfered from official files for your
benefit. If indeed you believe Corso lied, surely you can't
believe he lied merely to make money, or for whatever
satisfaction he might have derived from being the center of
attention. There _must_ be more to it than that. Apply your
masterful "research" skills to this puzzling aspect of the
Roswell controversy, and get back to us with your "Final Report
on Colonel Phillip Corso."

Stan, you and I both know that _you_ are the right man for the
job. If you think Corso was lying, then expose him either as a
liar who craved money or attention, or as a liar who was part of
the government's disinformation master plan intended to kill the
valuable research you carry out for the good of all mankind.
But, please, don't feed us that crap about NSC membership being
dictated by law. It's meaningless nonsense in the context of the
"Cosmic Watergate," and you should know that better than
anybody.

Until you can come up with something other than your own
armchair theorizing on Corso, further discussion would seem to
be pointless.

Cordially,

Bob Todd





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   Jul > Jul 24

                              Filer's Files #29

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 17:53:12 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 18:33:51 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #29

Filer's Files #29-1998  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer,    MUFON Eastern Director,
July 23, 1998,  Majorstar@aol.com  609 654-0020

UFOs ARE ON VACATION

During this summer hot weather UFO reports have taken a nose
dive except in cooler areas. This may be due to a combination of
cloudy overcast conditions and unusually hot weather.

Dr. Carl Sagan, Professor of Astronomy and Space Sciences at
Cornell University wrote in The Encyclopedia Americana regarding
Unidentified Flying Objects in 1963:

"It now seems quite clear that Earth is not the only inhabited
planet. There is evidence that the bulk of the stars in the sky
have planetary systems.

Recent research concerning the origin of live on Earth suggests
that the physical and chemical processes leading to the origin
of life occur rapidly in the early history of the majority of
planets. The selective value of intelligence and technical
civilization is obvious, and it seems likely that a large number
of planets within our Milky Way galaxy-perhaps as many as a
million-are inhabited by technical civilizations in advance of
our own.

Interstellar space flight is far beyond our present technical
capabilities, but there seems to be no fundamental physical
objection to preclude, from our own vantage point, the
possibility of its development by other civilizations." Carl
Sagan

THE DEATHS OF TWO IMPORTANT MEN

Two persons who spent most of their lives in the service or
their country died last week. We wish God's speed to Alan
Shepard and Colonel Philip Corso.

Their newest journey has started. I thank you both for your
courage and willingness to do what your country asked.

NEW JERSEY

From out of the past Betty Lynch called today to inform me that
she saw a formation of nine UFOs over Route 70 in Cherry Hill,
fifty-two years ago in the summer of 1946. This sighting is a
year before the famous Kenneth Arnold sighting. Betty stated:
"They were huge white discs about the size of a basketball
flying at high altitude." The UFOs were moving from north
Philadelphia heading toward the southeast. Betty had been a
member of the Ground Observer Corps (GOC) and had some expertise
in aircraft spotting. Betty was with her brother Lieutenant.
Anthony Michael Catana, who had been released from a Nazi prison
camp at the end of the war. Her brother was a bombardier in
W.W.II. His B-24 bomber squadron flew out of Foggia, Italy on
missions to the Ploiesti Oil Fields. He said, "Those white discs
are Foo Fighters. We frequently observed them during the war
flying in formation with our aircraft. One of these Foo Fighters
even flew through the belly of our aircraft." Later, his plane
was shot down and he bailed out over Lienz, Austria and was
imprisoned at Stalagwuf 1. After the UFO sighting, G-2
Intelligence came to their house and told him to be quiet about
their sightings. Thanks to Betty Lynch of Haddonfield, NJ.

On July 15, 1998, Anthony Dogherty reports he saw a UFO near the
Sayreville Clay Pits at 9:53 PM. He saw four lights in a diamond
formation blinking on and off simultaneously. The UFO moved left
and disappeared. It reappeared farther to the right, then moved
left and disappeared again. This occurred for over 15 to 20
minutes. Sayerville is some twenty miles southwest of New York
City. Phone number is 732-390-7760 at 44 Glynn Ct. Parlin, NJ
08859, E-mail: ortugg44@aol.com. Thanks to John Thompson and
ISUR.

NEW YORK

Pearl River, Rockland County, NY. In December 1997, Frank J. saw
a craft fly slowly over his house at only 200 feet above the
treetops around 7:00 PM.

Frank states, "I have a pilots license, it was not a plane. I
have flown aboard helicopters many times in the military and
know, it was not a helicopter!  This craft hovered periodically
and cruised down the block and over my house slowly with no
sound. It was around the size and dimensions of a city bus, but
half the height. It had dazzling blue & white lights whirring
underneath. It proceeded past my house. I jumped into the car
and followed it down the block towards Townline Road about a 1/2
mile away from where I first saw it approaching my house. The
UFO stopped abruptly and vanished in a steak across the sky."
Thanks to NY MUFON�s Larry Clark.

CORNWALL, UNITED KINGDOM

On June 30, 1998, David A. Dunworth, his spouse and a friend were
near Mounts Bay, in Penzance, Cornwall, UK when they sighted an
unusual object in "the clear blue sky" at 9:10 a.m. "Myself, my
wife and a friend of ours witnessed a small circular white object
trailing a jet. The object was about the size of an O on our
keyboard and appeared to be circling an aircraft heading east to
London. "The O-shaped object was bright white in colour and
moved in the same direction as the jet (easterly) about one inch
in an arc above the tail of the jet. The object slowly circled
the jet above the fuselage. The jet continued, probably unaware
of their companion circling above them. As we watched, the
object began to fade and disappear as if it had somehow
disintegrated." Penzance is located about 180 miles (288
kilometers) southwest of London. Thanks to Steve Wilson Sr.

UFO PROPULSION SYSTEMS AND ABDUCTIONS

The phenomenon associated with the presence of a UFOs can be
accounted for within the following scientific parameters: The
craft emit Electromagnetic radiation measured isotropically that
is in all directions of approximately one megawatt, that is a
million watts.

The wave length is of one-tenth to one twenty-five millimeters at
sixty to eighty cycles per second. There appears to be an
undulation motion and high frequency oscillations of constant
amplitude. The Pulse width is ten to forty microseconds. The
pulse is a brief surge of voltage or pulsating. On top of the
craft is an exceptionally high magnetic field which is about a
million times more powerful than we know how to produce on the
Earth. There is also a slow ripple effect of about ten per
second. That ripple is what causes the spinning of compasses.
The UFOs may effect aircraft in various ways that cause
ionization of the air. An electric current may move from the UFO
to another object in the air. UFOs have strong radiation and
other unknown effects that may harm humans.

Abductees report feelings of weakness, scars, and other evidence
of abuse or contact with the UFOs. Because of these tremendously
power of the UFOs it is logical to assume that there may be
danger to the abductees. Abductees often claim they are flown to
high altitudes aboard the craft. There are medical indications
of mental strain and fatigue. Further there are indications
abductees have a lowered ability to fight illness. This may
infer that anemia or similar problems could possibly be traced to
the UFO abductions.

Therefore, regular complete and comprehensive blood tests may be
one of the best methods for determining the health of the
individual abductee. If you suspect you are an abductee, I
encourage you to obtain blood tests that can be ordered at a
relatively inexpensive cost by your physician. You may not wish
to tell your physician why you desire the tests, but fatigue,
lack of endurance, and low immunity may be indications of anemia
and other problems.

I encourage you to request a copy of the results and send them to
me and our physicians will attempt to analyze them. Unless we
receive funding for these tests, we request the abductee absorb
the cost on an individual basis. We have a medical doctors
willing to analyze the data and general results will be published
here. We are accepting donations for this work.

Regarding the high power of the UFOs, we have found that some
fairly simple instruments may be useful for tracking them. They
are know to cause disturbances to compass readings. Rather than
watching the compass continuously it is possible to get an alarm
from any compass that is setting still and starts deviating.
MUFON�s George Reynolds set up a system that recorded variations
in compass readings that helped predict earthquakes.
Scanning of the radio frequency spectrum can sometimes pick up
electrical disturbances caused by UFOs. This can be done with
rudimentary equipment such as radio receivers. Amateur radio
enthusiasts listen to a range of about 200 kHz through about 30
MHz. These would be the short wave listening hobbyists.
The ham radio operators would also have these, but could scan
additional bands of higher frequency. They could, if sufficient
interest were generated, build or modify equipment to scan
frequencies in the microwave region. All that would be required
at the onset is listening devices with some rough idea of the
frequency being tuned. Once the UFO frequencies operating in an
area were defined, then more "fine tuning" could be accomplished.
 UFOs radiate energy in the microwave region, so there is a good
chance that we may have some success in tracking their propulsion
systems. Many drivers own radar receivers for use against police
radars. Radar receivers often used by high speed drivers can
also be used to measure the microwave range energy that is sent
out by many UFOs.

SOVIET UFO STUDIES

Nikolay Subbotin reports that: "We now been told that the entire
Soviet armed forces, a total of 15 million people over ten years
(1979-1989), were involved in a UFO study that turned up forty
major incidents and hundreds of minor ones. This included one
that prompted fears of starting an accidental nuclear war. As a
result of the study hundreds of UFOs were recorded and many were
photographed. In some cases there were multiple witnesses.
Unfortunately, until late 80-s, the UFO subject was forbidden to
discuss in the Soviet Union.

Any talking about UFOs might get you into serious trouble. Local
residents have observed strange flying objects for a long time.
Those objects were shaped as spheres, black "boats," domes,
plates and so on. Also, there have been weird places, where
people felt like being observed or were afraid of presence of
something odd. When the ban of ufological information was
removed, the researchers attention was drawn to abnormal events
near Mobelka village. The results of the first expeditions
(Perm's Bachurin's group, Muhortov's group) were a sensation in
1989, when this information got out to the media. The Roswell
Incident was not the only UFO crash in History, there were many
more." Thanks to Vlad G. and Nikolay Subbotin,
dmitryg@mailcity.com. The movie The Secret KGB UFO Files with
Roger Moore, and myself is scheduled to be shown on TNT on
September 13.

CANADA

Red Deer, Alberta. Cameron Smith on July 19, saw two wobbling
discs of a gray shiny color fly by slowly at the speed of an
aircraft at 9:40 PM. The craft were not luminous and were at low
altitude. Cameron requests any confirmation or explanation for
the sighting. Phone Number: 403-343-2985, Address: #8 Anquetel
Close, Red Deer, Alberta, T4R 1G7 CANADA

UFOs HOVER OVER MOUNTAIN CITIES IN UMBRIA, ITALY

On Monday, July 13, 1998, at 11:00 p.m., an "unidentified craft"
flew over the small city of Gualda Tadino in northeastern Umbria
province, Italy. The UFO "circled the city at high velocity,"
and then hovered for about two minutes before flying away to the
north. The UFO "flew below the clouds" and had "a great
luminosity." Minutes later, the UFO flew over the nearby city of
Gubbio, in the Apennine Mountains. Witnesses described the UFO
as "resembling a glowing soccer ball" and said "it flew to the
north-northwest," and, after aerobatic maneuvers lasting about
five minutes, and left in a northerly direction. The phenomenon
was seen by four witnesses in one location, and seven other
people confirmed this sighting.  Gubbio and Gualda Tadino are
east of Perugia, located about 150 kilometers (90 miles) north of
Rome.

(Grazie a Squadra Film Spaziale d'Italia per questo rapporto.)
Thanks to UFO ROUNDUP Vol. 3, # 29 July 20, 1998 Editor: Joseph
Trainor

FLIGHT 800 ELECTROMAGNETIC PLASMA THEORY?

An English professor has developed an electromagnetic theory on
what may be to blame for the crash of TWA Flight 800 - and she's
asking federal investigators to take her theory seriously.
Electromagnetic interference could be the culprit, Harvard
University professor Elain Scarry said Sunday. "In the TWA case,
the possibility of a meteorite was thoroughly studied and ruled
out. But we didn't look at the military questions of HIRF (High
Intensity Radiated Field), particularly what effect it has on
747s," Ms. Scarry told The Associated Press. National
Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) chairman James Hall says Ms.
Scarry's theory is already being investigated as part of his
agency's inquiry into the July 17, 1996, crash off Long Island.
All 230 people aboard died when the Boeing 747 jumbo jet
exploded in midair minutes after leaving John F. Kennedy Airport
for Paris. Investigators say the plane's central fuel tank
exploded, but have not been able to find an ignition source. Two
other theories a bomb or a missile -- were ruled out after an
extensive probe. An exchange of letters between Ms. Scarry and
Hall appears in the July 16 issue of the New York Review of
Books, a scholarly magazine which last April 9 published an
article by Ms. Scarry raising the question of whether
electromagnetic interference, or EMI, from an outside source --
possibly one of about 10 military ships or planes in the
vicinity -- had triggered the TWA disaster. She said that
studies had shown that both military and civilian aircraft had
been subjected to such effects, but that the theory had not been
seriously considered in this case. In a March 13 letter to Hall,
Ms. Scarry said NTSB findings had not ruled out "the possibility
that a High Intensity Radiated Field, or HIRF, played a part in
the crash of TWA 800," and suggested that instead of questioning
top-ranking officers, the agency should interview sailors and
airmen who actually were operating electronic gear at the time
and could best provide information needed for a minute-by-minute
reconstruction. In another letter June 17, Ms.Scarry insisted
that a TWA pilot's comments about a "crazy" fuel gauge and
difficulty "trimming," or stabilizing, the plane just before the
explosion could be anomalies hinting at an EMI event. She argued
that a 1994 NASA study -- the only one ever done on HIRF effects
on civilian aircraft -- dealt only with solitary planes, so the
effect on multiple aircraft was not known." Thanks to
Newsday.com July 13, 1998. Editors Note: A Swiss Air 747
reported a near miss from an elongated Plasma like object on
August 9, 1997, in the same area.

NAVY OFFICERS CLAIM FLIGHT 800 WAS SHOT DOWN?

WASHINGTON  "Somebody came into our waters and shot down -- for
the first time ever -- a flag carrier of the United States," an
expert on the explosion of TWA Flight 800 said at a Washington
briefing yesterday. Commander Bill Donaldson, a retired Navy
pilot and accident investigator who has spent 15 months examining
the case, said that two missiles were fired in the vicinity of
the airplane, and that one of them exploded close enough to bring
the plane down. It's no wonder, he said, that investigators did
not find evidence of a direct missile hit; the missile was of a
type specifically designed to explode near (rather than in
contact with) its target. Flight 800, Donaldson said, "was
intentionally destroyed by a powerful, proximity fused,
airbursting, antiaircraft weapon launched from a position
approximately one nautical mile off shore and three nautical
miles east of Moriches Inlet, Long Island, New York." In
addition, the airplane was "engaged seconds later by a second
missile fired from a closer position to the south of [the
plane's] track." There were 230 passengers and crew on board the
Boeing 747 when it was destroyed, on the evening of July 17,
1996. The plane was bound for Paris and, at the time of the
explosion, was eight miles off Long Island.

Government officials have suggested that the plane was brought
down when a spark ignited fumes in a nearly empty fuel tank
causing it to explode, but they haven't been able to explain the
source for the spark. Donaldson based his claims on an analysis
of physical evidence and eyewitness accounts in a 109-page report
(available at http://members.aol.com/fl800/). Those appearing at
the briefing to support Donaldson's theory included a helicopter
pilot who saw the explosion, a man who saw it from the ground,
and a now-retired TWA captain who had served as flight engineer
on the same plane just a few hours before, on its flight from
Athens. Donaldson believes that a missile detonated on the
plane's left side, about 20 feet from the hull and "probably
slightly low," sending a shock wave that blew open the skin on
the left wing.

The airplane then moved violently to the right and rolled almost
onto its back in an instant, some "144 degrees in one-second."
The stress created by the missile explosion caused the plane
itself to explode in bright flash followed by a dull red-orange
fireball that fell to the water amid a cloud of black smoke. In
preparing his report, Donaldson analyzed the composition and
distribution of debris from the plane, interviewed witnesses who
claimed to have seen a missile streaking toward the plane (and
turning as if homing in on the plane's radio signals), and
examined all the official documents released in the case. He
said that he is apparently "the only trained accident
investigator" who has interviewed most of the witnesses; the FBI
allegedly blocked NTSB investigators from conducting their own
interviews. Among the eyewitnesses who saw what appeared to be a
missile attack, Donaldson said, was an FBI agent. "He said he
had seen a plane shot down."

Admiral Thomas Moorer, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of
Staff, attended the briefing in support of Donaldson. "This
certainly appears to be an act of terrorism," Moorer said. He
called the Donaldson report "very excellent" and said Congress
should conduct its own investigation of the explosion. Vernon
Grose, a physicist and former member of the NTSB, attended the
briefing as an observer. He said he was interviewed on CNN for
six hours the night of the disaster and has been interviewed on
the subject some 170 times. "I've spent two years defending the
NTSB," he said, only to find that the facts don't seem to line up
with the official story. He told WorldNetDaily that he felt
"betrayed" by the NTSB. The Donaldson briefing "disturbed" him,
and he believes that government officials may have come to a
conclusion first, then tried to make the facts fit their theory.
"There ought to be an open, public hearing" to address the points
made by Donaldson and others.  Grose said he's not a fan of
conspiracy theories, and he believes there might be a reasonable
explanation for the government's behavior in this case. "But if
the truth contradicts what has been said, let it be heard," he
said. At the briefing, Captain Al Mundo, flight engineer on the
same plane on its previous flight, said he finds the official
theory "highly improbable." After the earlier flight, he had
performed a procedure that cleared the center fuel tank. "I
question whether vapors were even in the tank," he said, due to
physical processes that should have cleared any vapors that were
present. The helicopter pilot eyewitness -- Fred Meyer, a lawyer
and Vietnam veteran Naval aviator -- said at the briefing that,
"Based on two combat tours, it is my firm belief to this day that
it was military ordnance." The government theory, he said, is "a
government excuse for something -- totally mystifying.
I know what I saw."

Richard Goss, a businessman who saw what appeared to be a
missile, said that at first he thought it was part of a fireworks
display. "Someone else at the Yacht Club [from which he saw the
incident] even said, 'Look at the fireworks!,' and we waited for
the display." His reaction to the government's version as seen in
a CIA-produced computer simulation: "Personally, it was a joke to
me. It was an insult. It was so different from what I saw."
Donaldson's report is full of tantalizing details. On the day of
the explosion, a Beirut newspaper received a fax, apparently from
an Islamic terrorist group, stating that "Tomorrow morning we
will strike the Americans in a way they do not expect and it will
be very surprising to them." The Flight 800 disaster occurred at
8:31 p.m. EDT -- which, on the Arabian Peninsula, was the next
morning. On November 17, 1995, eight months before the Flight
800 disaster, two aircraft off Long Island reported seeing a
bright, fast-moving object trailing smoke and not registering on
FAA radar.

The object passed within 2,000 to 3,000 feet of the two aircraft.
Radar detected an object, apparently a surface vessel, only 2.9
nautical miles from Flight 800 when it exploded. It was
traveling at 30 knots and "avoided the visual range of all other
surface contacts" until it got out of range of Islip radar.
"This is a normal military tactic," Donaldson noted, not the
action of someone who had just witnessed a plane crash.
Donaldson reported that some of the strongest evidence for a
missile explosion -- the drastic change in apparent altitude,
speed, and other factors noted by the flight data recorder (FDR)
at 8:31:13 p.m. -- appeared to have been removed from the
official version of the FDR's readout. Thanks to:
WorldNetDaily.

Send your reports and letters to George A. Filer at
Majorstar@aol.com.






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   Jul > Jul 24

                 35th Edition Of The National UFO Conference

From: Karl T. Pflock <Ktperehwon@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 18:35:13 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 18:45:04 -0400
Subject: 35th Edition Of The National UFO Conference


ANNOUNCING THE 35th EDITION OF THE NATIONAL UFO CONFERENCE

NUFOC is oldest continuing annual UFO conference in the United
States, perhaps the world, and maybe even the Galaxy (Universe
might be pushing it). Founded by Rick Hilberg and others, NUFOC
was first held in Cleveland in 1964 and has taken place in
cities throughout the United States every year since then. James
("Saucer Smear") Moseley has been Permanent Chairman since 1971,
heading an illustrious governing board called the Permanent
Organizing Committee (POC).

>>>>THIS YEAR...

WHEN -- Saturday, November 7, and Sunday, November 8, 1998.

WHERE -- The Days Inn in Bordontown, New Jersey (near Trenton)
-- On Route 206, just off New Jersey Turnpike Exit 7. This is
about 45 miles southwest of Newark Airport, where cars easily
can be rented.

WHO --

-- Local Chairman:  Legendary New Jersey UFO researcher Pat
Marcattilio.

-- Confirmed Speakers:

* UFO historian and investigator KARL PFLOCK with an illustrated
presentation on the intriguing results of his re-examination of
the classic 1952 Scoutmaster Sonny Desvergers Florida landing
case.

* FATE columnist ANTONIO HUNEEUS on UFOs in Chile and elsewhere.

* RICHARD SAUDER, PhD on underground bases.

* BOB DURANT on "Roswell?  YES!"

* RICK HILBERG on "UFOs:  The First Three Decades."

* TOM BENSON on "One Good Case Is Enough."

* DAVID HUGGINS on his "Lifetime of Abduction Experiences."

* MATT GRAEBER presenting a cornucopia of his hillarious
ufological cartoons.

* CURT SUTHERLEY, author of STRANGE ENCOUNTERS, on "Magical
Mystery Tours."

* PETER A. JORDAN on "Cattle Mutilations and UFOs."

Most lectures include slides, and more speakers and surprises
will be added as the conference date draws nigh.

ADVANCE REGISTRATION -- Cost is $35 for one day, $65 for both
glorious days, IF PAID IN ADVANCE BY MAIL prior to October 20.
Send check or money order made out to Pat Marcattilio to:
NUFOC, PO Box 1709, Key West, FL 33041. After October 20 and at
the door, rates are $40 for one day, $70 for both.

HOTEL ROOMS -- The special NUFOC rate at the Bordontown Days
Inn, the conference hotel, is $50 plus tax per night, single and
double. Make your reservations directly with the Days Inn at
800-329-7466 or 609-298-6100. Be sure you ask for the special
NUFOC convention rate.

FOR MORE INFORMATION -- Call 609-883-6921 or 305-294-1873 or
e-mail <sparkle@earthlink.net>.

!!! BE THERE OR BE SQUARE...OR MAYBE TRAPEZOIDAL !!!








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 24

                      Nua Blather: Alphabeti Reticulans

From: Dave Walsh <dave@nua.ie>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 18:17:45 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 22:16:42 -0400
Subject: Nua Blather: Alphabeti Reticulans

*******************************************************************
NUA BLATHER  NUA BLATHER NUA BLATHER
Weekly free email of Dogma Destruction,
Forteana and High Weirdness

By Daev Walsh   Email: blather@nua.ie
Web: http://www.nua.ie/blather/
*******************************************************************
July 24 1998  Published By:  Nua Limited  Vol 2. No. 11
*******************************************************************

ALPHABETI RETICULANS

It was without success that Blather tried to contact Ms. Myler and
Mr. Ansbro -- stars of last week's issue
(http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives2/issue2no10.html). However, we
did stumble across the news that the Irish Centre for UFO Studies is
planning a talk of some sort in the Bull Island Interpretive Centre
(this centre is finding out about wildfowl, not extra-terrestrials)
in Clontarf, Dublin at 2pm on Sunday 26th July. Blather may or may
not have someone on the scene.

So, there no information yet -- in the media or elsewhere -- that the
recent ICUFOS predictions were successful. As mentioned last week, it
was cloudy on July 14th, making it difficult to see juxtaposition of
Jupiter with the Moon, but I'm sure they made the best of it. In the
days *preceding* July 14th, there were plenty of other odd phenomena
in our skies, much of them seemingly blamed on an unexpected meteor
shower.

On Saturday July 11th, the BBC told of 'the Z from outer space', a
strange array of 'Z' or '2' shaped lights which was seen for up to an
hour along the west coast of Britain on Friday 10th, after 22:30.
Police stations from as far south as Cornwall and north to Scotland
were inundated with reports from excited witnesses claiming sightings
over the Irish Sea. Reports were also made in Belfast, Northern
Ireland, and the lights were seen by the coastguards there. They
reckoned that it *looked* bigger than the Moon, but it was impossible
to be sure without knowing the distance (a simple yet subtle fact
that many people seem to forget when making reports). It drifted
westwards, apparently above the clouds.


While most people saw a Z, Teesside Air Traffic control tower (near
Middlesborough) reported a large letter Q. Was Steven Spielberg
making a Sesame Street movie? No planes were overdue and the RAF and
Jodrell Bank (radio telescope) reported nothing.

Some sense started to erupt from the confusion when an unnamed
airline pilot claimed to have seen a large meteorite entering the
atmosphere, while en route from France to the UK. He said that had
seen it breaking up and leaving a long trail. . . and was formed into
letters by the wind.
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_130000/130527.stm)

Joseph Trainor of UFO Roundup
(http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/) begged to differ. In Volume 3, Number
28 for July 12th 1998, he says that 'luminous meteor trails last
between five and ten seconds -- twenty seconds tops. They do not
persist in the sky for over an hour. Whatever this phenomenon was, it
was no meteor.' (http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/v03/rnd03_28.html)

On Monday, July 13th, Blather reader (and occasional co-conspirator)
Justin Mason heard witness reports on one of the RTE radio stations
of many sightings in the Republic of Ireland on the night in
question. One Wicklow man saw *coloured* lights to the north-west.
Another Wicklovian reckoned they were laser lights over Glendalough
(http://www.irishphotos.com/page13.htm) -- there is a hotel here, and
as the Tour de France cycle race was passing by on Sunday 12th, it
wasn't an unreasonable theory. Another report came from a woman in
Galway who 'spotted lights in the sky to the west of her home on
Friday night, and whose son (apparently an expert in these matters)
reckoned it was an exploding aeroplane. hmm, yerss'.


Blather would be inclined to draw a connection between these reports
and the mysterious aerial alphabet spaghetti. Objections?

It's worth noting that there was *another* unexpected shower a few
weeks earlier, on June 27th, confirmed by several countries,
including Japan, Italy and Portugal. A meteor weighing 300kg (670
pounds) landed in Turkmenistan on June 20th. We do seem to be getting
*quite* a few of these unexpected showers lately and the Leonids --
in November -- are apparently due to cause a storm, either this year
or next year, and much damage to satellites is expected. It should be
interesting to see what ICUFOS predicts for November, and for this
August (when the Perseid meteor shower is due).
(http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/v03/rnd03_27.html)


THE THEORY, BUT WE'RE STILL WAITING FOR THE PRACTICE
Speaking of the ICUFOS, honorary Blatherskite and Magonian Mark 'Rat
Tamer' Pilkington stumbled across an interesting document during the
week, none other than Roy Dutton's *Global UFO Activity=A0--=A0A
Study=A0of=A0Tactical Techniques*, which claims to be 'a prolonged
study of world-wide accounts of close encounters with unidentifiable
aerial artifacts led, by synthesis, to the formulation of the
Astronautical Theory for UFO Close encounters'.
(http://www.globalserve.net/~mallet/roycharts.shtml)

Impressed? Last week (as in other issues), Blather made mention of
how both Mr Greer of CSETI (http://www.cseti.org), and the
PEIR/ICUFOS were singing from the same hymn book - Dutton's theories
Well, here it is, in all its glory. Blather will refrain from going
so far as to entirely dissect it, but we would like to share our
opinion of this paper. Blather reckons that it's a load of bobbins
(thanks to Gareth Fagan, for introducing me to that curious label of
detraction).

The Theory (and that's about as much as it is) claims to make it
possible to *predict* UFO encounters, from calculations using data
gleaned from historical UFO sightings. Dutton reckons that he's come
across a strategy of alien surveillance of the Earth, using defined
'approach-paths' which deliver the surveillance craft. I can only
assume that the entire theory is itself built on a shaky foundation
of assumption, such as the actual existence of extra-terrestrial
surveillance. Still, if such theorizing keeps him off the streets and
out of trouble, we shouldn't complain.


THINGS THAT GO BUMP ON FRIDAY NIGHTS
According to Blather's MIB (Man in Bantry, the following Friday to
the 'Mark of Zorro' night, or rather at 01:25 the morning of
Saturday, July 18th, several members of the local population (up to
half a mile away from each other) of none other than *Bantry* were
woken up by a strange boom or bang, along with dogs barking. The
weather wasn't thundery. Even though Blather has been told by
Shannon ATC that the Concorde does not exceed the sound barrier over
Ireland, many people do claim to hear it , but even so it's not known
to shake houses -- as this did -- or cause dogs to bark. Does the
Concorde even travel at such an hour? For more on present-day
anomalous Irish aerial booms, their Cornish cousins and Concorde, see
*Skies Alive* and *Baaaaah-Humbug*
(http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/issue1no31.html
http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/issue1no31.html).



Curiously, about 10 minutes after writing the above paragraph, this
Blatherskite was having some coffee and reading some of 'The Owlman &
Others' (1997, ISBN 0 952441764) by Jon Downes, of the Centre for
Fortean Zoology (http://www.eclipse.co.uk/cfz/). Incredibly
enough, I stumbled across a section by Jon on the Cornish Concorde
controversies of 1976, with Air France denying responsibility for the
plethora of sky-bangs heard above the west country at that time, with
even poor old President-elect Jimmy Carter getting himself
implicated.


SOME PICTURES OF BLATHER TOPICS
In *Silly Season: Monsters, UFOs, etc.*
(http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives2/issue2no8.html), we mentioned
Gougane Barra. . . here's a rather pleasant photograph of the area
(http://www.irishphotos.com/pic23.htm). On the same site, there's a
picture of the island which was the subject of *Weird Achill*
(http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives2/issue2no9.html), demonstrating
the powerful scenery to be experienced there.
(http://www.irishphotos.com/pic15.htm)


GRATUITIOUS SELF PUBLICITY SECTION
On July 19th, Reuters (http://www.reuters.com) saw fit to give
coverage to the GUST lake monster expedition to Norway beginning on
August 3rd (this writer will be aboard). CNN and other news networks
published reports.
(http://customnews.cnn.com/cnews/pna.show_story?p_art_id=3D2755471&p_se
ction_name=3Dalt)



Dave (daev) Walsh
Friday, 24th July 1998



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   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 25

                             Re: Meier Pictures

From: Andy Denne - A.U.R.A. <aura@telekabel2.nl>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 00:59:49 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 10:27:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Meier Pictures


> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 17:16:51 -0500
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Meier Pictures

> >Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 11:07:08 -0700
> >From: Don Ecker <decker@ufomag.com>
> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Meier Pictures

<snip>

> >Gentlemen;

> >Let us not forget what we are referencing. The kinetic energy of
> >a .45 ACP 234 Grn. projectile in comparison to a .22 WMR
> >projectile. Neither a .45 nor a .22 will be totally converted
> >into energy. This is a bit simpler than that. Brooksmith
> >suggested that a .22 caliber bullet will deliver, weighing
> >between 45 to perhaps 60 Grns. traveling around 1000 to perhaps
> >1150 fps., depending on the loading, will give more energy to
> >the target than a .45 ACP, weighing between 185 Grns. lower end,
> >to 234 Grns. upper end. The velocity from a 185 Grn. "hollow
> >point" or controlled expansion projectile, around 1000 feet per
> >second, or the heavier 234 Grn. round at about 870 feet per
> >second. You can play with the math, but real experience taught
> >me that if I have to be shot, and I have no option, use the .22
> >over the .45 PLEASE!!

> >Don Ecker

> >--
> >Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with
> >confidence.
> >Don Ecker
> >UFO Magazine
> >www.ufomagazine.com

> >[Gentlemen:

> > I'm trying to figure how this relates to the purpose
> > of this List..... am having difficuly. Could someone
> > please give my brain a nudge or failing that take
> > this tangent to direct E-Mail? --ebk]

> Errol,

> You just don't understand! See, if Nick's response to Bruce is
> traveling at a speed of 89.9 mps. and approaching at a 45 degree
> angle to the ecliptic plane, the momentum of Don's contribution
> will introduce a random element of increased entropy. This,
> according to Einstien, will cause the mass of the dialog to
> impact on all three objects (Bruce, Nick and Don) simultaneously,
> causing anal retention on a Galactic scale.

> And in some way that I haven't yet figured out, (I've have difficulties
> doing math) we are all going to be shot in the head, (and preferably
> with the .45! You don't want that .22 rattling around in your skull
> processing your brain like liver in a blender,) or at this point in
> the thread, we hope we will be. Ah, at least I 'think' that's what
> they're talking about. I hope this alters your tangent for you.
> Now do you understand?

> C'mon dude, get on the stick. It's the, "kOoKy WoRld oF sCieNcE !"

> (LMAO!) Thanx for the roll on the floor man! ;-D

> John Velez, (S.)M.o.-A.t.S.o.T
> (Stationary) Moving object- About the Size of Texas

> [Dang! An' here ah thort _ah_ wuz loozin' it wunerin' whut
>  it haid ta doo with yew-foes! TGIF-- ebk]

Haha!!! John we were laughin' us to death here!!!
I was simply refering to the weapons the FiGU freely admits to
have that's all...the rest of the mathematics ...well, i tried to
figure out how that could help the case. Personally I'm real glad
I don't know jack about guns (as i intent to keep it!).

Another thing though is i'm really glad so many reactions came
one the latest Meier-scam. Since I have, as stated before, a very
poor knowledge of guns, I was glad to learn that it was highly
improbable that a sniper/killer would've used a .22.(ans missed
at an 8 meter range, what a lousy MiB those Switsers got ;-))

Anyway, thanks for GOOD LAUGH and your great talent to express in
quiet a funny way what I guess a lot of list-members were
thinkin'


Andy Denne
A.U.R.A.






                         The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 25

                             The Chinese Roswell

From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 02:29:42 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 10:37:19 -0400
Subject: The Chinese Roswell

[Seems to me that the following has been discussed on UpDates
 in the past and the consenus was that it was a pile of
 'Dung Phooey' --ebk]

Excerpt from Fate Magazine August 1998. URL:

http://www.llewellyn.com/fate/9808/pr2_0898.htm


*******


Excerpted from
The Chinese Roswell
by Hartwig Hausdorf
Copyright =A9 1998 FATE Magazine
August 1998


For 35 years, a story has circulated about an alleged UFO crash
that happened some 12,000 years ago in a remote mountain area in
China. When I first heard of this, I took it to be science
fiction. But new developments in this story have made it worth
another look.

It begins at the turn of the years 1937 and 1938, when an
expedition led by archeologist Chi Pu-Tei came across the
pathless Bayan-Kara-Ula mountains in the modern-day Chinese
province of Qinghai. The group discovered some caves in which
numerous strange-looking skeletons were entombed. All of the
skeletons had abnormally big heads and small, thin, fragile
bodies.

There were no epitaphs at the graves, but the explorers did find
716 stone discs with bizarre hieroglyphs on them. From a hole in
the center of each disc, a groove spiraled out to the rim. The
archeologists had no idea what kind of information was encoded
in the hieroglyphs.


(Image: The two known discs. Each weighed two pounds and
measured about a foot in diameter.)

Not until the early 1960s did Beijing Academy of Sciences
professor Tsum Um Nui succeed in translating a few passages of
the inscriptions on the stone discs. But upon completing his
report, the scientist ran into a problem: The Academy banned the
publication of his work. This is not surprising when one
considers the unusual conclusions that Tsum Um Nui and four
assistants drew. They were certain that the hieroglyphs on the
stone discs told of the crash of an alien spacecraft in the
mountains 12,000 years ago!

After an extended quarrel, the professor obtained permission to
publish his report. He introduced amazed readers to the story of
alien beings called the Dropa, who had crashed in the
Bayan-Kara-Ula Mountains after a long space flight. A great
number of these beings died, and the survivors could not repair
their ship, said Tsum Um Nui. Of course, the scientific
establishment considered the story to be nonsense, and Tsum Um
Nui was derided as a fool.

What skeptics ignored was that in the Qinghai province, ancient
traditions told of small, skinny, ugly beings, with big, clumsy
heads and weak extremities, who came down from the sky long ago.
Locals have always been afraid of the strange-looking invaders
from the clouds.

Shortly after publishing his report, Tsum Um Nui emigrated to
Japan. Embittered by the reactions of other scientists, he died
shortly after he completed a final manuscript about the
stone-disc mystery. My book Satelliten der Goetter (Satellites
of the Gods) was published in Japan in 1996, and I hope the
book's Japanese readers may be able to provide new information
on Tsum Um Nui and his fate. Where was he buried? What library
contains his report on the translation of the hieroglyphs on the
stone plates?



Disappearing Evidence


Nobody knows what became of the 716 discs. Their existence was
last documented in 1974, when Austrian engineer Ernest Wegerer
came across two of the discs in Banpo Museum in Xi'an. The discs
matched the descriptions from Tsum Um Nui's 1962 report. Wegerer
could even recognize hieroglyphs in the disc's spiral grooves,
but by this time they were partly crumbled away. Knowing the
artifacts' background, Wegerer asked the former manager of the
Banpo Museum for more details on the objects. Surprisingly, the
woman could tell stories about all the other clay artifacts
there, but all she could say of the stone discs was that they
were unimportant "cult objects." This is also how they were
labeled in the museum showcase.

Nevertheless, the Austrian was allowed to hold one of the discs
and take the only known photographs of both of them. Wegerer
estimated them to weigh two pounds each and to measure a foot in
diameter. They both featured the strange hieroglyphs and a hole
in the center. Regrettably, the spiral grooves cannot be seen in
the photographs, partly because they had crumbled away and also
because Wegerer used a Polaroid camera with an integrated flash.

This was more or less the status of the research when Satellites
of the Gods co-author Peter Krassa and I tried to pick up the
trail of this mystery of the century. It would not be easy.
China had suffered through its Proletarian Cultural Revolution
from 1966 to 1976. Many people lost their lives, and innumerable
precious objects fell victim to the unrest. During this time,
many artifacts were taken from Beijing into the provinces.

In March 1994, Prof. Wang Zhijun, director of the Banpo Museum,
welcomed Krassa and me for a discussion of the stone discs. At
first, he seemed unwilling to give details, but soon he revealed
that the manager of the museum had been called away from her job
just a few days after Wegerer had visited the museum in 1974.
Both the woman and the discs had disappeared without a trace.

I had the distinct feeling that Wang Zhijun was uncomfortable
during our inquiry. When asked for the artifacts' present
location, he told us: "The stone discs you have mentioned do not
exist, but being extraneous elements in this museum for pottery
ware, they have been dislocated."

Isn't it fascinating to witness such a U-turn in one sentence?

(End of Excerpt)


Find out more in the August 1998 issue of FATE.

Hartwig Hausdorf of Germany exposed "China's Pyramid Cover-Up"
in the February issue of FATE. More details of these and other
Far East mysteries can be found in his new book, "The Chinese
Roswell" (New Paradigm Books).


*FATE Front Page | *August 1998 Contents | *Next Preview |





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 25

                      Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS

From: Robert Todd <RTodd12191@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 18:39:50 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 10:19:10 -0400
Subject: Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS


In a message dated 98-07-24 11:49:32 EDT, Stan Friedman wrote:

>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:22:15 -0300
>From: Stanton T. Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS

>>From: Robert Todd <RTodd12191@aol.com>
>>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 04:50:04 EDT
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS

>>>Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 17:43:46 -0300
>>>From: Stanton T. Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>>
>>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Corso Affidavit for CAUS

<snip>

>Bob,

>If you have any data on Corso, why not put it on the table?

Stan,

I have no information on Corso that needs to be placed on the
table. Corso himself has detailed his involvement in the Roswell
affair, but you seem to display a bias against Corso that I find
rather interesting, and I merely am pointing out how ridiculous
your position really is on a number of important points.

>I said nothing about your saying anything about Pica or elite
>type.

Your phrasing certainly could leave the reader with that
impression. I suggest you take a badly needed course in
writing.

>Why not also put on the table how many visits you have made to
>Archives and how many visits to New Mexico and how many Roswell
>witnesses to whom you have talked?

Prove I haven't visited even more archives than you have.
_You're_ the one making the claim I haven't visited any
archives -- PROVE IT! Just remember, absence of evidence
is not evidence of absence.

As for talking with Roswell witnesses, surely you're not
suggesting a reasonable assessment of those witnesses cannot be
derived from your representations of their testimony, are you?
I mean, you wouldn't alter or withhold witness testimony, would
you?

>Last I heard the number for at least the first 2 was zero.
>Armchairs are indeed comfortable.

Yes, indeed they are. You've certainly benefitted from my
research, the so-called "Bolender memo" being just one example,
a document you consistently misrepresent because you haven't
bothered to do the necessary research to fill in the blanks.
Perhaps you waste too much time tooting your own horn. Or
perhaps you _have_ filled in the blanks with your own research,
but, for some unknown reason, decided long ago to withhold the
truth from the public.

But I keep forgetting you were a member of the "research team"
that, when they couldn't find the documents they were sure
existed, created their own to fill in the gaps. Boy, that's
taking the easy way out! Talk about armchair research! And to
this day, you keep pushing those documents on the public. You
even wrangled a $16,000 grant from the Fund for UFO Research
(FUFOR) to research the contents of those documents, which had
been manufactured around documents and information your
"research team" already had uncovered during their years of
"archival research," "research" which apparently included
planting at least one fake document among the formerly Top
Secret records of Air Force Intelligence at the National
Archives. Gee, is it any wonder you were able to "confirm"
dates, places, and the names of the people present, when you
already had the information in your own files?

Yes, indeed. What a great researcher you are!.

>Membership in the NSC is determined by law.

If, as you contend, Roswell represents the biggest cover-up of
all time, exactly what has the law got to do with what the
"Cosmic Watergate" folks do? Covert ops don't care about no
stinking laws. Remember, they're everywhere, watching your
every move, almost certainly in violation of the law. The law is
meaningless tripe, and you know it.

Because you, the great archival researcher, cannot confirm
Corso's claims by utilizing the available documentation at the
Eisenhower Library, doesn't mean the man was fibbing. Once again
-- and I'm shocked you seem unable to grasp this simple point --
ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE IS NOT EVIDENCE OF ABSENCE. It's _YOUR_
pithy little saying -- if not your mantra -- and it applies to
Corso every bit as much as it applies to your beloved MJ-12,
_regardless_ of the law.

>I do appreciate your demonstrating your illogicality and bias.

Oh, Stan, you're more than welcome. But, again, I am shocked
that you don't recognize your own brand of "illogicality and
bias." In fact, you yourself are flagrantly guilty of every
crime of which you routinely accuse others, from selective
choice of data, to propaganda, to misrepresentation, to outright
lying. And, please, don't threaten me with a lawsuit, 'cause I'd
tear you apart in court.

>With regard to your research skills, just how many papers have
>you published in scientific journals?

Yeah, we all know you're God's gift to nuclear physics and UFO
research -- we know because you keep telling us, over, and
over, and over again. If your "scientific" papers on nuclear
physics are anything like your "scientific" papers on UFOs, I
shudder to think _anybody_ takes them seriously. It certainly
doesn't say much for refereed journals.

All that aside, surely you must consider Corso worthy of further
research. Why would a retired lieutenant colonel lie about such
things? If you believe Corso was lying, then perhaps he was part
of some government disinformation plot designed to derail your
inquisition into the "Cosmic Watergate." Let's get the facts
here, Stan, there must be _some_ reason Corso lied, if indeed he
did. Since he had documented ties to the NSC, and since you
claim he was not a member of the NSC, and you also claim
membership was dictated by law -- which we all know is a farce
anyway -- let's get some hard facts on this. I suggest you
launch an all-out effort to _prove_ Corso wasn't a member of the
NSC in violation of the law. After all, there is no
documentation _proving_ any of the twelve supposed members of
MJ-12 actually were in that group, or even that the MJ-12 group
existed at all, but you seem to accept that as fact. And since
it appears MJ-12 withholds vital information even from
Presidents of the United States, this means they are operating
outside the law as well, making your observation that NSC
membership is determined by law all but meaningless. Indeed, to
hear you tell it, the whole idea of the MJ-12 organization is
illegal as hell. I won't even mention the illegal death threats
supposedly delivered to key Roswell witnesses by the Air Force's
jack- booted Roswell cover-up thugs.

Again, I recommend you submit the appropriate FOIA requests to
the appropriate agencies, and if need be, take them all the way
to the Supreme Court, just like you did when you filed suit
against the NSA on behalf of CAUS years ago. If necessary -- and
it appears it will be -- I also would recommend you try to
cultivate some more of those infamous "inside sources" who
helped your "research team" so much in the past. Maybe one or
two "Deep Throats" can point you in the right direction, and
furnish you with records you cannot obtain under the FOIA,
perhaps by furnishing them on undeveloped rolls of black-and-
white, 35mm film, or by enticing you to an upstate New York
motel where they will allow you to photograph top-secret/code
word documents they pilfered from official files for your
benefit. If indeed you believe Corso lied, surely you can't
believe he lied merely to make money, or for whatever
satisfaction he might have derived from being the center of
attention. There _must_ be more to it than that. Apply your
masterful "research" skills to this puzzling aspect of the
Roswell controversy, and get back to us with your "Final Report
on Colonel Phillip Corso."

Stan, you and I both know that _you_ are the right man for the
job. If you think Corso was lying, then expose him either as a
liar who craved money or attention, or as a liar who was part of
the government's disinformation master plan intended to kill the
valuable research you carry out for the good of all mankind.
But, please, don't feed us that crap about NSC membership being
dictated by law. It's meaningless nonsense in the context of the
"Cosmic Watergate," and you should know that better than
anybody.

Until you can come up with something other than your own
armchair theorizing on Corso, further discussion would seem to
be pointless.

Cordially,

Bob Todd






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   Jul > Jul 25

                             Re: Meier Pictures

From: Mendoza, Duke Peter Brookesmith <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 19:29:17 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 10:31:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Meier Pictures


Compliments of the Duke:

>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:41:31 -0700
>From: Don Ecker <decker@ufomag.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Meier Pictures

>The Mossad used a .22 caliber weapon for "executive actions",
>but it was a Berreta (sp?) in a .22 caliber SHORT.

My informants beg to differ, and I wouldn't trust a .22 Short to
do such dirty work; and I don't think Beretta made a pistol in
that calibre (not that Mossad wouldn't be able to order a
special, of course). But I have moles burrowing to double check.
It was certainly my understanding that Gerald Bull, designer of
the Iraqui "supergun", exited this life thanks to the .22WMR.

>But back to
>the reason I wrote this, the idea of comparing a .22 WMR to a
>.45 ACP as carrying more kinetic energy is just patently
>ridiculous. Kind of like comparing a small stone to a huge block
>of granite.

Not entirely. Compare these ammo specs:

CCI +V     .22WMR   40gr  2000ft/sec  355ft/lb
Federal    .22WMR   50gr  1650ft/sec  302ft/lb

Winchester .45ACP  185gr   775ft/sec  245ft/lb
Winchester .45ACP  210gr   710ft/sec  235ft/lb
Winchester .45ACP  230gr   850ft/sec  410ft/lb

The last .45 is a military hardball, and comparable to the load
Don described, which I calculate gives about 392ft/lbs at the
muzzle or only about 10% more kinetic energy than the CCI +V
above. The CCI .22WMR is a hollowpoint, so the effect is grim.
But, as wise men say, I'd rather be missed by a .22 than hit by a
.45.

In the late 70s I was involved in testing various transparent
plastics for an Italian company who had had several of their top
executives' relatives kidnapped for ransom. They wanted nice safe
new windows. We pumped every pistol bullet/load combo we could
find at this stuff at various ranges. The ones that penetrated
deepest (none went through) were Eley HV .22LR and a Federal
.22WMR, both solid points.

The way to defeat bullet-proof "glass" today would, of course, be
to use a large catapult or small siege engine firing a
well-trussed Gray, which would have no trouble passing through,
and would frighten those behind it at very least into a catatonic
trance. The only question then would be who abducted the victim
first - the Gray or the would-be ransomers.

Fascinating as these technical data are, I'm still waiting to
hear from the Meier Fan Club whether their favorite prophet &
guru reported the so-called "assassination attempt", involving a
crashed .22in-diameter lead UFO (there's your answer ;-) John),
to the local plod.

best
Pachmayr D. Mannlicher
Wedge Gripper







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   Jul > Jul 25

                         Missouri UFO Crash In 1865?

From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk.>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 02:44:50 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 10:56:48 -0400
Subject: Missouri UFO Crash In 1865?

From: Wireless Flash News Service June 17.

URL: http://www.flashnews.com/news/8plp2pr4.htm


Stig

*******

Wed 06-17-98 09:50 am

82 YEARS BEFORE ROSWELL: DID A UFO CRASH IN 1865?


CALGARY, Alberta (Wireless Flash) =96 Did a flying saucer make a crash
landing in Missouri 82 years before the infamous Roswell, New Mexico,
crash?

A UFO researcher claims new evidence suggests that an alien spacecraft
crashed in the Cadotte Pass area of Missouri sometime in September of
1865.

Researcher W. Ritchie Benedict says the man discovering the crashed UFO
was a fur trapper named James Lumley, who told newspapers he saw a
"bright, luminous body in the heavens" suddenly burst into flames in
the middle of the night.

The day after the sighting, Lumley reportedly discovered a bizarre
giant stone-like object about two miles from his camp that was
decorated with weird hieroglyphics

Newspapers from the time report that the giant "space rock" was so
fragile that it blew to bits before Lumley could take it to scientists
for an examination..

Benedict=92s research on the "Cadotte Saucer Crash" appears in the July
issue of Fate magazine.

CONTACT: W. Ritchie Benedict, ****; Calgary, Alberta; (403) ***-****

Copyright =A9 1998 Wireless Flash News Service. All rights reserved.
[Back To Home]





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   Jul > Jul 25

                             Casteel On Bigelow

From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 03:46:55 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 11:16:53 -0400
Subject: Casteel On Bigelow


Excerpt from the August issue of Fate Magazine. URL:

http://www.llewellyn.com/fate/9808/pr1_0898.htm


Stig


*******


Excerpted from
Where the Steers and the Aliens Play
by Sean Casteel
Copyright =A9 1998 FATE Magazine
August 1998


The story of multimillionaire Robert Bigelow is surrounded by
the kind of mystery, intrigue, and conspiracy charges that
typically fuel the UFO community's rumor mill. Some observers
call him a generous benefactor who has nothing to hide. Others
label him a manipulative puppetmaster who uses his money as a
weapon and hordes the paranormal research data he once promised
to make public.

Very little is known about Bigelow. Even the source of his
fortune remains a mystery. Some say he is of the Bigelow Tea
family, while others claim he made his money in Las Vegas real
estate. Another rumor has it that the death of his son several
years ago brought about his passionate interest in the
paranormal, the mystery of survival after death, and UFO
phenomena.

There are also foreboding rumors that when crossed, Bigelow
responds through emissaries who threaten violence -- or worse.
Accusations of bribery are commonly tossed around. Even more
common are the whispers that Bigelow's public posture of secrecy
points to covert connections to the CIA or other government
agencies. Bigelow's determined silence in the press only further
fuels the speculation.

But once in a while even Bigelow makes a move that unavoidably
brings him into the public eye. Bigelow's purchase of a ranch in
isolated eastern Utah perfectly illustrates how he operates:
moving in with large sums of money and quickly covering his
trail to keep it hidden from prying eyes.

The tale begins with Terry and Gwen Sherman, the ranchers who in
1995 purchased a large tract of Utah land -- and got much more
than they bargained for.



Home on the Range


The family found their new ranch unusual from day one, according
to UFO researcher Christopher O'Brien, who was one of the first
to arrive on the Sherman case. "The house had sat empty for
seven years. Any house that sits empty for even a month or two
in this area is completely cannibalized to the ground. This
place -- no one would touch it," says O'Brien.

The house looked like it had been vacated hastily the day
before, and all the doors in the house had deadbolt locks. A
central corridor could be locked on both ends, and a closet in
that hallway could be locked from the inside. "It was very
spooky -- like a Stephen King novel or something," says O'Brien.

The strangeness didn't end there. In July 1996, the Shermans
made news by going public with claims of seeing several types of
UFOs on their land. According to Zack Van Eyck, a reporter for
Salt Lake City's The Deseret News, the Shermans reported having
three cows mutilated and several others missing, and finding
strange impressions in the soil and circles of flattened grass.
They saw lights emerge from "doorways" that seemed to appear in
the air. One night, as Gwen Sherman was driving home, she was
chased by strange red lights. On another occasion, Terry Sherman
and his son waved to a black craft, reportedly the size of a
football field, and then felt they had received some kind of
response from it. Terry, viewing the craft through a scope from
about 400 yards away, supposedly saw a tall, dark figure get
out.

Enter Robert Bigelow, who flew to Utah soon after the reports
and offered to buy the ranch for about $200,000. The Shermans
accepted the offer and bought a smaller ranch about 15 miles
away, where they hoped to escape the upsetting events that
plagued them for more than a year.

Zack Van Eyck tells FATE about the Shermans' dire need to unload
the ranch. "Bigelow's been a savior to them because he got them
off the ranch," he says. "I really am impressed with the
Shermans. They had chances to sell the ranch; Terry told me that
a guy from Colorado wanted to buy it. Terry just didn't feel
comfortable, because he was afraid that this guy and his family
would go in and have the same experiences. So Terry, not wanting
to put any other family in that position, really had no choice
but to sell to someone like Bigelow."

An article in Spirit magazine by David Perkins described the
Shermans' experience on their last day at the ranch. The night
before, they had locked all the doors and gone to bed. "The next
morning they awoke to find their bedding covered in blood,"
Perkins wrote. "They [each] had a one-eighth-inch deep 'scoop
mark' in the same place on their right thumbs. The ranch from
hell had managed to nick them one last time."

Once he acquired the ranch, Bigelow reportedly hired a pair of
scientists and a veterinarian to take up residence there. They
would conduct research under the umbrella of the National
Institute of Discovery Science (NIDS), a private research
organization formed by Bigelow in October 1996.

Beyond these facts, little else is known. Bigelow maintains a
strict silence with the media, and his hand-picked assistant and
spokesman John Alexander has granted the press no details into
the nature of the research. Terry Sherman, now employed by
Bigelow to maintain the ranch, told The Deseret News he could no
longer comment on his experiences because of a non-disclosure
agreement he had to sign.

So here lies the core of the Sherman ranch mystery: What is
Bigelow hiding behind his tidy legal agreement that he doesn't
want to make known to the UFO community and the public? Is that
secrecy imposed, as some have suggested, because of covert
connections to the military or government? Or are Bigelow's
motives much more personal?


Find out more in the August 1998 issue of FATE.

Sean Casteel has reported on UFOs and alien abductions for
nearly ten years. His interview with Heaven's Gate member Rio
DiAngelo appeared in the July issue of FATE.


Copyright =A9 1998 FATE Magazine
P.O. Box 64383, St. Paul,
MN 55164-0383






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   Jul > Jul 25

               Aurora Crash 1897: Full Scale Research Project

From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 05:11:17 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 11:35:26 -0400
Subject: Aurora Crash 1897: Full Scale Research Project


Great program, Jan and Jeff. This one is from
"alt.ufo.reports" July 20.

Best

Stig

*******

Subject:      Project Aurora
From:         ufonetwork@aol.com (Ufonetwork)
Date:         1998/07/20
Message-ID:   <1998072001133100.VAA28591@ladder03.news.aol.com>
Newsgroups:   alt.ufo.reports

Extra-Terrestrial Network has now become the first UFO
Organization to open up a full scale research project on the
alleged UFO Crash in Aurora, Texas in 1897. We plan on
petitioning to exhume the body from the local cemetary in
Aurora, Texas. Ever since the resurfacing of the story and
information of the alleged crash in the late 1960s and early
1970s people have been very interested. This webpage and this
Project are your source for information on the crash. Check out
the webpage for it on the main page for Extra-Terrestrial
Network at:

http://etnetwork.home.ml.org

Thank You,
Leon Thompson
Head Director
Extra-Terrestrial network
http://etnetwork.home.ml.org

Head Director
The Tex Files
AOL Keyword: Tex Files








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   Jul > Jul 25

                       UFO News Items From The Fringe

From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 03:30:40 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 11:12:59 -0400
Subject: UFO News Items From The Fringe


Thanks to Wireless Flash News Service I am able to bring you a
few news items from the fringe. Except for the last one which is
rather sweet, they are all pretty far out, but hopefully will
act as a deterrent.

The first one is from July 9, and the URL is

http://www.flashnews.com/news/7eet5es2.htm


Stig


*******


Thu 07-09-98 05:12 am


Aliens Rebuffed With Mysterious 'Bodyguard Discs'


PALM SPRINGS, Calif. (Wireless Flash) Can a 3-inch metal disc
protect you from an alien abduction?

The mysterious metal discs are being sold by a California-based
group called the Alien Resistance Movement, which claims hostile
aliens are walking the streets of almost every city on the
planet.

Spokesperson Thor Templar says the "alien bodyguard discs" are
made of gold and silver and give off "vibrational energies"
which will keep aliens at bay.

The Alien Resistance Movement apparently learned how to make the
bodyguard discs thanks to information supplied by what Templar
calls an elfin-looking alien woman with extra-long fingers.

The discs may be to aliens what garlic is to vampires but
they=92re not as cheap.

Each disc costs a whopping $225 but, according to Templar, one
disc can protect an entire house from alien attack.

CONTACT: Thor Templar, *****; Palm Springs, CA; (760) ***-****

Copyright =A9 1998 Wireless Flash News Service.
All rights reserved.


*******


This one is from June 2. URL

http://www.flashnews.com/news/4clk0ch0.htm


*****


Tue 06-02-98 09:50 am


Out-Of-This-World Jewelry Made From Crashed Ufo Fragments


RED ROCK, N. M. (Wireless Flash) =96 A New Mexico gemologist is
selling jewelry made out of what he claims are fragments from a
crashed UFO.

Jeweler David Shoemaker owns about two-and-a-half pounds of a
strange glass-like material that he says was salvaged from an
alien spacecraft that crashed near Red Rock, New Mexico, more
than 50 years ago.

The extraterrestrial gems are transparent green and contain tiny
gray spheres resembling exploding galaxies. It was originally
believed the material was from a meteorite, but Shoemaker claims
an analysis of the fragments reveals that they contain 54
different minerals and elements - including 3 minerals never
found on Earth.

Shoemaker is currently selling raw chunks of the UFO fragments
for $100 or more a gram and necklaces for $500 or more.

CONTACT: David Shoemaker, **** (serious inquiries only); Red
Rock, NM; (505) ***-****

Copyright =A9 1998 Wireless Flash News Service. All rights reserved.


*******


The next item is from May 13 and can be found at

http://www.flashnews.com/news/6khy4ka2.htm


*******


Wed 05-13-98 03:23 pm

Androids Under Construction In Top Secret Nevada Lab


CROCKETT, Tex. (Wireless Flash) Are androids being assembled at
a top secret research lab in Nevada?

Yes, says sci-fi author Kenny Love, who claims he=92s uncovered
evidence that human-looking androids already exist and will soon
infiltrate society.

Love says a team of scientists working near Area 51 in Nevada is
putting the final touches on a group of androids with cloned
human brains.

The android research is reportedly being funded by a secret
group that plans on using the robot-humans as coal miners,
astronauts for long-distance space journeys or even as high-tech
sex dolls.

Love says he=92s also heard rumors that the Internal Revenue
Service wants to program the U.S. Tax Code into androids so they
can be used as cold-hearted, emotionless IRS agents.

Love, who discovered the real-life android situation while
writing an upcoming fictional book called Millennium Eve
(Mys-Tech Publishers), says he now fears for his life.

CONTACT: Kenny Love, ****; Crockett, TX; (409) ***-****

Copyright =A9 1998 Wireless Flash News Service. All rights
reserved.


*******


The following is from May 3, and the URL is

http://www.flashnews.com/news/5smy6sq0.htm


*******


Sun 05-03-98 02:47 pm


Alien Spacecraft Using Prison As 'Gas Station'


LONDON, Ohio (Wireless Flash) - UFO researchers think a prison
in London, Ohio, is being used as a sort of "service station"
for alien spaceships.

Researcher Peggy Tillman says the London Correctional
Institution is regularly visited by alien craft which hover over
the site for about five minutes, perhaps refueling before
jetting away. The prison is located on Route 665, a highway that
locals refer to as the "UFO Highway."

Tillman also reports that many of the eyewitnesses who have seen
spacecraft "fuel up" over the prison have later spotted a
Bigfoot in the area. Could the hairy creature be some type of
paranormal pump attendant?

However, not everyone believes the prison is an extraterrestrial
Exxon. London Correctional Institution spokesman Don Rayna says
he=92s unaware of any alien visits to the prison.

CONTACT: Peggy Tillman, ****; London, OH; (614) ***-****; Don
Rayna, **1/2; (740) ***-****

Copyright =A9 1998 Wireless Flash News Service. All rights
reserved.


*******


The last one is dated June 26. URL

http://www.flashnews.com/news/1tid1ts7.htm


*******


Fri 06-26-98 09:50 am


The Bride Is Out There: 'X-Files' Weddings On The Rise


ARDMORE, Pa. (Wireless Flash) =96 The latest trend in weddings is
pretty 'alienating'. It seems the brides and grooms are dressing
up like X-Files sleuths Mulder and Scully.

Wedding consultant Deborah Hernandez, who works for the David=92s
Bridal Store chain in Detroit, says she=92s working on an X-Files
wedding right now.

The bride will be cutting her red hair into a Scully-like bob
and slipping into a double-breasted business suit and trench-
coat, while the groom will wear a standard issue suit resembling
Agent Mulder=92s clothing.

Both of them will sport fake FBI badges =96 along with all of the
bridesmaids and groomsmen. And, instead of "The Wedding March,"
the bride will walk down the aisle to the spooky strains of "The
X-Files Theme."

Hernandez says she=92s expects plenty of other couples to hop on
the X-Files wedding bandwagon due to the popularity of the show
and the movie.

CONTACT: Deborah Hernandez, ****; Arrange thru Collene Kennedy;
Ardmore, PA; 1-800-***-**** or (610) ***-****, ext. 220

Copyright =A9 1998 Wireless Flash News Service. All rights
reserved.







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   Jul > Jul 25

                             Re: Meier Pictures

From: Anthony Hall <anthonyhall@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 02:04:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 11:49:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Meier Pictures

[A non-subscriber post --ebk]

>Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:34:42 +0200
>From: Andy Dene - A.U.R.A. <aura@telekabel2.nl>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Meier-Pictures.


>As promised some time ago, here's an update on the Billy
>Meier-case. First of all I'd like to mention the fact that, even
>though he offered to do lend a hand he never mailed me back.


Hi Andy and Gang:

The colossal Ra=E9lian movement seems not to be of concern. A
group much larger and forceful than Meier, and growing. The Ra=E9l
group are without photos and document equal to Meier, and maybe
the reason why debunkers find it of no interest. Ra=E9l has even
taken on the task of building a cloning facility offshore, in
some neutral country. All Meier has done is publish his photos
and contact notes, and is being attacked.

What is considered the norm tend to be confined in their house
of thought. The avantgarde, even through esoteric, is often the
realm where new ideas are formed and disbusted into the tightly
griped world who refuse to initially embrace new ideas --
Edison, Albert Einstein, Tesla, etc., for example. We all are
being politically motivated to turn aganist each other. In the
end, if Meier profest to be what he his, the truth will find
it's rightful place. If you're wrong in your assumptions, you
can easily say, gee, I was wrong. In the mean time, all that
debunking will have turned people away and aganist Meier's
teachings, not him specifically, because he's no god.

Isn't it interesting that we the people do not muster the same
effort in acts of sexism, rasism, violent movies, etc.? These
are the very things that help expidite the degeneration our
society into the abyss and mind you, this is being done
globally. While Meier and his handful of follows do not profest
the degeneration of society and is attacked. Will society allow
humanity to massacre itself under the banner of free speech? The
people of Earth must realize that they are their own messiahs
and must work to bring about peace and stop fighting against
each other.

I'm sure you are aware that the government often insert
misinformation to throw researchers off track when they get too
close to the truth. Do you know of any other UFO contact case
that has come under intense scrutiny similar to Meier? Did you
read about the meltdown at CNN and the New York Times recently,
regarding the U.S. Government experimenting on soldiers?

>Meier claims the Men in Black forged his photographs in
>order to discredit him, but what proof comes along to
>support this wild claims?

The others who profess to have come in contact with the Men in
Black stealth group, do they have proof to support their claims?
Could you name a UFO contact case that overshadows the Meier
case? We tend to honor UFO contact cases with no real substance,
because they do not have much to scrutinize.


>SSSC:  We have the contact-notes and the fact Ptaah (who only
>       'appears' to Meier!) told us (sic) so!

Maybe the so called Anti-Christ will show signs and wonders,
spellbounding the world. Since the world will require proof that
he's the messiah.


>The rest not worth mentioning because it was a mixture of
>aggressive bashing of Korff or anyone that doesn't believe
>Meier's ludicrous claims on the one hand and trying to convince
>me of their "Mission". "The prophet of the New Age" as his
>followers call Meier is actually planning to thank Korff and
>Buergin for the free publicity, said the spokesman of the SSSC.

Your efforts against Meier is also considered "aggressive
bashing." If Meier responds to Korff, that's his right, because
Korff has attacked him.

"...convince me of their "Mission". Did they really? You will
have to reason into that understanding yourself, Meier and his
group can not do that.

>Have you noticed that in the conversation above there is a HUGE
>contradiction: First there was claimed Meier NEVER made any fake
>pictures him self. Then two questions later they practically
>ADMIT he very well faked pictures!

He did? Did you know Meier once lived in a farm house with
sections having dirt floors when he took many of those pictures?
If he did not have the money to repair his farm house, where he
found the money to fake pictures and create a movie?

>This behaviour can be interpreted as sectarian, cult-like
>behaviour only! Also we did a new analysis of a couple of
>Meier-pics ALSO found on their website.(Just so the good ol'
>MIB-excuse won't work this time ;-)) What we obviously noted was
>the following:

>And if that all isn't enough, Meier still trying to manipulate
>the minds of his somewhat naive followers.

If Meier's group is cult-like, do assume the world we live in to
be a larger cult? Please understand, many beliefs in society are
cult-like! Remember, the debunking clique you're with, is also a
cult -- like-minded working together. Don't reverve the word
"cult" as a negative, similar to how many have reserved the word
"holocaust" for the Jews. If you don't agree with Meier for
whatever reason, that is your right, but don't go about making
decisions for the masses. If others come into Meier's teachings,
and for whatever reason disapproved, that's their right, and
they have the freewill to stop. Meier does not run a secret
society where mysterious pacts are signed, and members ascend in
degrees.

Many of society's doctrine and actions, brainwashes us or
conditions us from childhood into adulthood with a set of
beliefs often filled with wrong and selfish thinking. That's one
of the reasons why the world is subdued in such madness. The
knowledge you and I have, did not fall from the sky. Over time,
we will all evolve into what is the truth, and the likes of you,
I and Meier will have faded away.


>Picture 200: Made taken March 8, 1976

>After we enhanced the image we noted that the pixels in the
>background were defiantly different from those on the
>craft...rather sloppy work I'd say...but after we decided to
>erase the back-ground we ALSO noticed a white edge, clearly a
>result of "cut and paste"!

Did you deduce your findings from a firsthand scan, or from the
degraded pixelated .jpg artifact copy?

>This time a MIB tried to shoot him from close range. To prove
>this Meier came up with a .22 bullet stuck in a tree. Of course
>Meier had no other witnesses of this "attack". In my opinion
>those MIB in question must've been terrible rookies or drunk, if
>they weren't capable of hitting him at an 8 meter distance!

So you believe Meier's recent assassination attempt was a hoax?
Re-read the contact info again. Meier said the MIB were behind
it.

>I guess it's useless wasting anymore time on Meier and his cult,
>although I feel sorry for his followers who need to believe in
>something...

If Meier's followers believe in something, does that mean you
believe in nothing? If that's the case, how did you arrived at
your conclusions? Did Korff convince you that the Meier case is
a hoax?








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   Jul > Jul 25

                               See Mars in 3-D

From: Mark LeCuyer <randydan@wavetech.net>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 05:00:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 12:11:11 -0400
Subject: See Mars in 3-D


Source: Ron Baalke <BAALKE@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 15:27:36 GMT
Subject: National Geographic Presents "Return To Mars"

Media Advisory

MARS PATHFINDER MISSION GETS A NEW LOOK:
SEE THE RED PLANET in 3-D at nationalgeographic.com

WHAT:
Remember that cute little rover "Sojourner" scooting across the
rocky Martian terrain last year? And the fabulous photographs
of the Red Planet's landscapes the Pathfinder mission sent back
to Earth?  Well, now you can relive the expedition in 3-D at
"Return to Mars" from Pathfinder's fiery plunge through the
Martian atmosphere and its beachball landing to a virtual ride
on the rover.

Just pull out the 3-D glasses from the August issue of National
Geographic magazine, included for its cover story on Mars. If
you're not a member, you can order the magazine from the online
store.

Send a postcard from Mars and then, when you've returned to
Earth, join a forum discussion on whether NASA should send a
manned mission to the Red Planet.

WHEN:
Return to Mars starts July 17.

WHERE:
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/features/98/mars/

CONTACTS:

Meredith Mansfield
Connors Communications
(212) 807-7500
meredith@connors.com

Sarah Clark
National Geographic Society
(202) 828-5664
sclark@ngs.org

-----

From: Mark - Alien Astronomer
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583





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                        Re: Philip Mantle 'Signs-off'

From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 04:49:20 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 12:22:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Philip Mantle 'Signs-off'


> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 20:32:01 +0200
> From: Bruno Mancusi <Bruno.Mancusi@com.mcnet.ch>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Philip Mantle 'Signs-off'/Santilli's footage

> >Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:56:41 +0000
> >From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
> >To: updates@globalserve.net
> >Subject: Signing Off

> >Dear Friends and Colleagues,

> >I have to inform you that I am pulling out of ufology for an
> >indefinate period. This has not been an easy decision to reach
> >as I have been actively involved for nearly 20 years.

> Philip,

<snip>

> Now that you are going to resign from ufology, can you say us at
> last what was your real involvement in this "Roswell autopsy"
> story? Why have you accepted to help Ray Santilli to put in
> touch with the ufological milieu? Have you received money from
> him? How much?

> I think that many list members would be interested in your
> response.

Dear Bruno,

My reason for becoming involved with Santilli and his film was
simply to try and get to the bottom of it. I have not yet managed
to do this but I have proven, to my satisfaction at least, the
the tent footage is a hoax. Whether or not the rest of the film
proves to be fake or genuine I honestly don't know.

As for payment from Santilli I have been asked this question a
thousand times. The answer is quite simply no. Santilli paid me a
small fee to work as a consultant on his video release of the
film, which I did and even appeared in. At no time did Santilli
or anyone else for that matter ever offer me any money for
anything else.

There are those ufologists out there with I.Q's the same size as
their shoe size who are adamant that myself and others were paid
large sums of money and that I was even involved in faking the
film. Is it any wonder that I have decided to call it a day.

That day in San Marino was very surreal indeed as was the BUFORA
Congress in l995 which publicly aired the film for the first
time. I've been asked if I have any regrets about becoming
involved with Santilli and his film, I have only one, and that is
that I have not been able, at this moment in time, to prove the
film either fake or genuine. As I'm signing off I will have to
leave this up to others.

All the best,

Philip.





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                    Re: Nua Blather: Alphabeti Reticulans

From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 14:52:24 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 19:51:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Nua Blather: Alphabeti Reticulans

>From: Dave Walsh <dave@nua.ie>
>Subject: Nua Blather: Alphabeti Reticulans
>Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 18:17:45 +0100
>To: blather@lists.best.com

>Joseph Trainor of UFO Roundup
>(http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/) begged to differ. In Volume 3, Number
>28 for July 12th 1998, he says that 'luminous meteor trails last
>between five and ten seconds -- twenty seconds tops. They do not
>persist in the sky for over an hour. Whatever this phenomenon was, it
>was no meteor.' (http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/v03/rnd03_28.html)

I beg to differ with his begging to differ.

Large meteors, (yes, I know I'm preaching to the choir) can and
do leave residual smoke trails, as well as the initial ionized
air.

I don't know what time the event occured, but if the smoke trail
was at a sufficient altitude to be illuminated by the sun (even
though those on the ground were in the dark), it could have been
visible for some time, and stirred up a bit by high level winds.
The path of the smoke trail would have been at a downward angle,
and the trail could have been passing through wind currents of
differing speeds and directions, hence the strange shape.

The data should be avaiable to determine if the sun would have
been visible from the top of the atmosphere at that location. If
not, then I guess I'm blowing hot air.

Greg







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                     UFOs, Skeptics and The Misinformed

From: Dave Ledger <dledger@cableinet. co. uk>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 19:39:25 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 19:49:24 -0400
Subject: UFOs, Skeptics and The Misinformed

Greetings Errol & fellow list members,

Here at UFO Scotland we keep recieving volumes of mail saying
the same thing and asking the same old questions with regard to
ufology past and present.

I thought I would forward a typical letter with its reply for
your interest and ask if this is also common ground for other
UFO website owners.

Thanks for your time

Dave Ledger.

-------------------

Hi,

Many thanks for your interesting mail. It certainly was thought
provoking to say the least but dare I say it, was obviously
written through the eyes of a total skeptic!.

I have never once said on my website that these UNKNOWNS were
actually aliens space ships etc. That is your own
misinterpretation my friend. Many UFO sightings could and
probably will be secret military craft etc but not all of them.

>what people are seeing are optical anomilies such as land
>lights, ball lightning and planet occultations. This seems
>ridiculous too but the human imagination is one of the most
>powerful forces of nature that we know of.

I totally agree that Ufology is followed by many who do not have
any serious direction in life or just plain gullible folks, but
there are many who research the subject objectively like myself
who are after only the truth no matter what it ends up as.

If you had researched the subject of ufology properly, you would
see that sightings etc are not a relatively new trend as you had
put it. They have been going on for thousands of years, even
depicted in cave paintings by our ancients. The problem with the
whole thing is that folks have not been properly informed and
kept in the dark about sightings for years by our own
governments. Perhaps this is because most of them are indeed
secret military prototypes etc and it is easier to let the
public think they are of an Extra terrestrial nature as opposed
to secret.

>I dont doubt that lifeforms exist elsewhere, in face I believe
>that there must be thounds if not millions of populated
>planets elsewhere in the universe

>but why would they visit us? If they did visit planet earth
>then I dont think anyone could hide it - not even the "mighty"
>US government.

Yes you are right there too but think of this. Just supposing
their really are extra terrestrial visitors visiting us from
their planets. If you were one of them and were a peaceful and
more intelligent race, would you not hide from man's barbaric
ways and just watch the progress or lack of it, whichever is the
case. If we caught an ET we would pickle it or put it on a wall
as a trophy or experiment on it or cage it. If you were a
visitor would you put yourself through that just to say HI were
here!

>Nope I dont think people are seeing space ships or aliens at
>all. Dont you think its kinda like the medievil days when
>people thought there was dragons, goblins and sea monsters?

Remember when man said you could not fly and then the wright
brothers flew in their flimsy wooden aircraft. They said it was
impossible but only because of their own short sightedness. Some
would have said it was witch craft at one time but now it is a
way of life, taken for granted by us all. It is all a matter of
how much you can open your mind to accept the future and its
possibilities instead of standing there saying it cant be done.
Our problem is that we relate our world and our universe by our
own scientific limitations and what we believe is possible.
Science is changing all the time along with our understanding of
it making new possibilities all the time, but it is only useful
to those who are not on the black and white road so to speak.

Now take a good look through your history books and tell me that
we have always been correct with our assumptions of what we can
and cant do. You will find that most of the things that were
said to be impossible years ago are easily possible now.

>to be honest I think its more like some kind of hysteria,
>with the reports mirroring the Hollywood alien trends of
>the day.

What about all the sighting reports by civilians and military
and R.A.F. before all the hollywood hype. If you research the
subject thoroughly, you will see that there is a lot more to
ufology than meets the eye. Some of the best reports come from
the 40s and 50s. I do agree however that there is a lot more
chance of sightings today being hoaxed but not them all.

I strongly suggest that you visit the website again and view the
worlds best UFO video footage page. Then come back and tell me
that all of these STRUCTURED craft are just dragons and goblins.
They are there and they are real and have been spotted by
millions around the world and even captured on camera. I dont
think that you will be able to explain away all of this footage
with goblins and fairies.

Let me put it another way for you. I'll bet you have never been
to Hong Kong or even seen it for real but you would swear that
it is there!

>anyway thats my thoughts on the matter
>its just that id hate to see people wasting too much time on a
>phenomenon that will never be resolved.
>what will people be seeing 2 or 3 hundred years from now?

Again that is your opinion my friend and it is not a waste of
time in my opinion. I am not afraid to ask questions or question
what we do not know about. I was like you 2 years ago, pretty
skeptical, but when you have a sighting that is multi-witness
and then the authorities say there was nothing there belonging
to them what are you supposed to think. My father was all his
life in the RAF and I am well accustomed to seeing aircraft
landing lights and navigation lights. These objects we spotted
were definately not aircraft and definately not natural light
phenomenons etc. Isn't it funny that as soon as we see something
that we cannot explain it has to become natural earth lights or
suchlike but these are not any more believable than the UFO's
themselves as Earth Light Phenomena has yet to be fully
explained also.

Finally as a last thought, I think you should look into the
Governments past involvement with UFOs. If there was nothing to
it as most seem to think, do you think the military and
airforces of the world would have put so much money and man
hours into something which was laughable at the least. I dont
think so. Try looking up documents on Project SIGN, Project
GRUDGE, Project BLUE BOOK etc. You will be suprised.

There are many reasons as to why the Governments of the world
would choose to cover up any contact from other worlds but that
is another discussion. In my opinion, there is a lot of evidence
to suggest that there is something to ufology and I do not
believe that it will always remain a secret for years to come.
We have to be ready first as a race and that may well come in my
life time and yours.

I thank you for your interesting view point and would like to
hear from you again in the future to discuss this further if you
like. Also try to get a look at the NASA shuttle missions:
STS-48 and STS-80. Fairies and Dragons? In Space? Definately
not Earth lights or Planets so perhaps you could tell me what
the anomalous objects in the video clips are.

http://wkweb5. cableinet. co. uk/dledger/video. htm


Take care of you and yours amigo, from your good
friend,

Dave.
--
================================================================
If you see someone without a smile.... give them one of yours :)
****************************************************************
Posted by: Dave Ledger UFOSCOT@cableinet. co. uk
Visit "UFO SCOTLAND" at:
http://wkweb5. cableinet. co. uk/dledger/index. htm
Reach us on ICQ #4851425
****************************************************************
Scotland Director for UFO Sky Searchers International.
Visit UFOSSI at http://www. UFOssi. org/index. htm
****************************************************************
THE TRUTH IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER!.....BUT HOW FAR?
================================================================




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         Archive programming by Glenn Campbell at AliensOnEarth.com

   C1717>>He did? Did you know Meier once lived in a farm house with
   >sections having dirt floors when he took many of those pictures? >If
   he did not have the money to repair his farm house, where he >found the
   money to fake pictures and create a movie? That's American folklore!
   Yes, Meier lived on a farm and yes, Meier wasn't rich, but one could
   argue since he came up with his pics this all changed! Also it's not
   that expensive to come up with convincing fakes, not in those years,
   not in Switserland! >>This behaviour can be interpreted as sectarian,
   cult-like >>behaviour only! Also we did a new analysis of a couple of
   >>Meier-pics ALSO found on their website.(Just so the good ol'
   >>MIB-excuse won't work this time ;-)) What we obviously noted was
   >>the following: >>And if that all isn't enough, Meier still trying to
   manipulate >>the minds of his somewhat naive followers. >If Meier's
   group is cult-like, do assume the world we live in to >be a larger
   cult? Please understand, many beliefs in society are >cult-like!
   Remember, the debunking clique you're with, is also a >cult -- This I
   think, shows how little you know about me OR my ideas about UFOs! First
   of all: I'm not in a debunking-clique. My opinion however is based on a
   strong suspicion and the evidence there is so far, and not on simple
   believe! But since you don't know me how can you make a statement like
   that anyway! >like-minded working together. Don't reverve the word
   >"cult" as a negative, similar to how many have reserved the word
   >"holocaust" for the Jews. If you don't agree with Meier for >whatever
   reason, that is your right, but don't go about making >decisions for
   the masses. If others come into Meier's teachings, >and for whatever
   reason disapproved, that's their right, and >they have the freewill to
   stop. Meier does not run a secret >society where mysterious pacts are
   signed, and members ascend in >degrees. Where did I make decisions for
   others? I heard other stories from ex-FIGU members! Even as we speak
   Meier is publicly bashing the name of his own ex-wife! I think that
   says it all... >Many of society's doctrine and actions, brainwashes us
   or > conditions us from childhood into adulthood with a set of >
   beliefs often filled with wrong and selfish thinking. That's one >of
   the reasons why the world is subdued in such madness. The > knowledge
   you and I have, did not fall from the sky. Over time, >we will all
   evolve into what is the truth, and the likes of you, >I and Meier will
   have faded away. >>Picture 200: Made taken March 8, 1976 >>After we
   enhanced the image we noted that the pixels in the > >background were
   defiantly different from those on the > >craft...rather sloppy work I'd
   say...but after we decided to > >erase the back-ground we ALSO noticed
   a white edge, clearly a > >result of "cut and paste"! >Did you deduce
   your findings from a firsthand scan, or from the >degraded pixelated
   .jpg artifact copy? The pictures we used we got from FiGU and you can
   also find them on their home-page Also i'd like to state that
   difference in pixels and other obvious hoaxes can be determined on
   second or third generation pics! >>This time a MIB tried to shoot him
   from close range. To prove >>this Meier came up with a .22 bullet stuck
   in a tree. Of course >>Meier had no other witnesses of this "attack".
   In my opinion >>those MIB in question must've been terrible rookies or
   drunk, if >>they weren't capable of hitting him at an 8 meter distance!
   >So you believe Meier's recent assassination attempt was a hoax?
   >Re-read the contact info again. Meier said the MIB were behind >it.
   ...Ah, if it were the MiB A) Why didn't he hit Meier? B) Why would he
   have used a .22? Seems like a lousy organization to me like this... >>I
   guess it's useless wasting anymore time on Meier and his cult,
   >>although I feel sorry for his followers who need to believe in
   >>something... > >If Meier's followers believe in something, does that
   mean you >believe in nothing? If that's the case, how did you arrived
   at >your conclusions? Did Korff convince you that the Meier case is >a
   hoax? Lemme ask ya one back before answering: "Are you a FiGU-Member?"
   I believe in sunshine, smiles, a good song even UFOs, but not if it can
   be proven to be a hoax or whatever, to my opinion that's what happend
   in the Meier case. Don't fear :) Korff has nothing to do with this, NOT
   AT ALL, even though he promised interesting data of his own research to
   add to this, he has failed to do so. With Kind Regards, Andy Denne





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   Jul > Jul 26

                             Re: Meier Pictures

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 15:40:35 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 00:20:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Meier Pictures


>Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 12:31:33 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Meier Pictures


>>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:03:29 -0400
>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Kinetic Energy Bullets
>>To: updates@globalserve.net

<snip>

>>Don't forget that the definition of "kinetic energy" is the
>>product of the mass times the velocity squared. If I knew the
>>speed and mass of the .22 WNR I could calculate its K.E. and
>>compare with the 45 (234 grain, 870 ft/sec; KE = 234 x 870^2 =
>>177,114,600 in the appropriate units.

>Bruce, looks like you also forgot the definition of kinetic
>energy (the energy of moving objects). It is equal to the mass
>times the velocity squared divided by 2. As a result, your
>value above is twice as large as it should be.

>Of course, if a given mass is totally converted into energy,
>then the energy obtained is the product of the mass time the
>velocity of light squared (Einstein's mass-energy formula).


I agree. I left the 1/2 off and erroneously described the
"remainder", mv^2 , as the "kinetic energy"., (I should have
said twice the kinetic energy). I did not include 1/2 because
what I was thinking about was the COMPARISON between the KE of
the two bullets, and, in particular, the RATIO of the KE of one
to the KE of th other, and in this ratio the (1/2) factor would
cancel.

On the other hand, if these were relativistic bullets, then the
total energy would be mc^2 where m is the relativistic mass, m =
m'/(1-v^2/c^2) where m' is the rest mass). Clever mathematicians
can "expand" this expression in powers of v^2/c^2 and find that
in the low velocity limit m = (1/2)m'v^2/c^2.






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   Jul > Jul 26

                  US Criminal Law - Defamation On Webpages

From: Stig Agermose <wanderer@post8.tele.dk>
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 03:04:41 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 00:30:29 -0400
Subject: US Criminal Law - Defamation On Webpages

From NY MUFON's mailing list.

Stig
____________________________________

Date: 26 Jul 1998 00:22:52 -0000
From: "Larry Clark" <lclark@ibm.net>
To: "Jed Turnbell" <Jedstar@aol.com>

<snip>

Subject: internet use
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:26:34 -0400

NY Mutual UFO Network Postings -
http://www.nymufon.org


Hi all:

I received a message from the state director with important news
for all our internet users. Dana wrote:

"that there is now a federal criminal law against defamation on
the Internet (eg, the Webpage). Already there has been a
conviction, in New England I believe, where there was prison
time, a fine, AND seizure of the computer equipment used by the
convicted. So be careful what you say on our Webpage"

Enough said! Be careful out there! I myself was accused of
copying someone's WEB page, changing the contents, and posting
it to the state site, and pretending it was on another site. The
bizarre thing about that was when you went to the alleged forged
page, it clearly showed (and still does) the person's WEB
address. To pun a phrase "Oh, what webs we weave, when we
practice to............."

Regards,

Larry Clark







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   Jul > Jul 26

                    Re: The Sturrock Panel: The Next Step

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 15:40:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 00:15:46 -0400
Subject: Re: The Sturrock Panel: The Next Step


>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:24:48 -0700
>From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: P-1947: The Sturrock Panel: The Next Step

>Greetings List Members,

>RE: THE STURROCK PANEL'S RECOMMENDATIONS

>There are not as yet any answers to the request concerning the
>Sturrock Panel, and what the next step should be. There always
>seems to be complaints and criticisms after someone in ufology
>does or proposes something. There always seems to be few
>recommended courses of actions before the fact, but great
>amounts of criticism and complaints after the fact.>

<snip>

>I. Tasking:

> What actions should now be taken to implement the Sturrock
>Panel's main recommendation that UFO deserve serious scientific
>consideration?

One task could be a formal respose to the panel's report...or a
formal commentary on same addressing certain issues which are
"opinions of the panel" rather than accepted facts.

>II. Assumptions.

> A. There is no definitive critical information currently
>available that will settle the UFO problem once and for all. (Or
>restated for the conspiracy minded: Those "in the know" will not
>be revealing critical information. So you will not be able to
>inspect any crashed saucers soon.)

The claim that there is no "definitive information that will
settle the UFO problem once and for all" may be correct.
However, more basic claim that they panel had...no evidence of
anything truly unusual or "physics breaking"....is not accepted
as a fact by the UFO community (otherwise there probably would
be no such "community") and an important response to the panel
would be to lean why the panel members essentially claimed that
everything could be explained (no unconventional physics) while
admitting that some sightings were"difficult to explain." What
new but not ET/Other Intelligences (OI) related phenomena might
be invoked to explain the unexplainable? Or did the panel catch
itself in a "paradox" (all cases are basically a result of known
natural or manmade phenomena and we think we know about all
natural phenomena that could be related to sightings such as
there, but there are some cases which we can't explain and
therefore must involve unknown natural phenomena.)

A response tto the panel would be for th investigators in the
UFO community to find at least one case which is (a) rich in
detail, (b) contains information that clearly conflicts with all
known manmade and natural (unintelligent) phenomena and (c)
which all investigators can agree is unexplained, yet highly
credible. (I nominate the May 24, 1949 Rogue River sighting.)


> B. Most of the official, scientific, and media establishments
>will remain dubious or skeptical of UFOs.

Probably true. Doesn't stop us from moving ahead of the rest of
the scientific world.


> C. There will be a slim possibility of limited cooperation
>with official and scientific organizations (FAA, weather bureau,
>access to unofficial tracking networks and records).

Great... grab the possibility

> D. Political action is not within the scope of this
>recommendation.

Obviously political action has already been taken (e.g., the
Congressional Initiative of the Fund for UFO Research begun 15
or more years ago; ORTK, CSETI)

> E. Funding will be extremely limited with $500,000 being at
>the upper limit.

Over what period? The Fund fr UFO Research has already spent
over $500K in the last 20 years. III. Intelligence.






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   Jul > Jul 26

             Re: Aurora Crash 1897: Full Scale Research Project

From: Kerry Ferrand <kferrand@rocketmail.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:27:28 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 00:25:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Aurora Crash 1897: Full Scale Research Project

>From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 05:11:17 +0200
>Subject: Aurora Crash 1897: Full Scale Research Project Opened Up

hmmm correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't someone in the late 70s
or early 80s already go through this "case" with a fine-tooth
comb and find it actually was some type of local newspaper
publicity stunt?

I also recall someone tried for an exhumation but the site wasnt
located...excuse my ignorance if I've got it mixed up with
something else.

K





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 26

                      Re: Triangular UFOs over Belgium

From: Peter Duke of Mendoza Brookesmith <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 22:42:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 00:41:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Triangular UFOs over Belgium


With the compliments of the Duke of Mendoza, who acknowledges the
assistance his religious advisor and poker tutor Brother
TimeSpoke in the composition of this message:

>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Triangular UFOs over Belgium
>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 23:54:12 -0400

>You have your references all mixed up, Archbishops
>fit in a highly structured organization (such as the
>Catholic Church) kept together with rigorous discipline
>through widespread dogmatism. In such a system, obedience
>is the rule, Public criticism of this system will have you
>excommunicated,

The Anglican Communion, which has recently been reminding itself
that it is broad & tolerant church while debating in Synod its
attitude to gay people, has plenty of archbishops. Some of its
bishops have recently caused a spot of bother by questioning the
Virgin Birth, Resurrection of the Christ, &c., which ought to
make them heretics in the light of the 39 Articles. None has
been excommunicated. I first became interested in theology (and
appalled by Christianity) in 1963, following the publication of
(Bishop) John Robinson's "Honest To God", which was more or less
a confession of atheism, tho' the Bishop hid behind Paul
Tillich's skirts in the hope of justification. Robinson wasn't
excommunicated either.

>You will agree that ufology is exactly the opposite of that: it
>is mostly unstructured, it is not unified, Voices can be heard
>from almost every direction, Ufologists don't seem to be tender
>towards one another, but the constant questioning of respective
>positions and opinions and feelings makes the confusion only
>apparent: in the end, you get a pretty good idea of what is
>really happening in the field, This is called freedom of
>expression: it is the seed of knowledge.

Free expression by itself was never a seed of anything but more
free expression. (Cf. D.H. Lawrence: "Thank God I am not free,
any more than a tree with roots.")

I'm not suggesting ufology is _one_ church. It's a mass of
communions, cults, sects and congregations. And agnostics,
heretics, apostates, atheists, and bemused unlookers. Your
average member of the Exclusive Brethren would probably not be
terribly tender toward your average Mormon. Seventh Day
Adventists seem not to like anybody at all, even themselves.
Quite a lot of Protestants like to think the Pope is the
Antichrist. All these people call themselves Christians. Calling
yourself an ufologist but getting picky over details is to
invite similar deprecations from other ufologists.

>From an outside point of view, the skeptics are exactly the
>opposite, They behave like members of a church: they look very
>unified, never questioning their peers, and engaged in a battle
>against ufheretics.

Skeptics in the CSICOP sense of the word, aka debunkers in the
private dialect of ufological theologians, most resemble those
called atheists in ecclesiastical language. Personally I've long
thought atheism an untenable position, even though it can,
strictly, stake respectable claim to the position of the null
hypothesis. But explaining how I can slide down that razorblade
seems to cause as much consternation as explaining that I think
"alien abductions" are not alien _but_ are real experiences in
some cases. (I lay claim to the dialect title "skeptic" rather
than "debunker", by the way.)

>I have never seen or read or heard a skeptic criticize
>in the most remote way another skeptic

Then get thee to "Alien Abductions" by yrs truly, where I take
my old friend Phil Klass to task on at least two counts (I am in
receipt of a letter from Phil complaining about them, too) and
quibble wih others implicitly throughout. I can also cite
instances of Kottmeyer being unenchanted with Stacy (not a
debunker) over the latter's Abortion Anxiety Hypothesis, Klass
disputing Kottmeyer's interpretation of the Father Gill/PNG
case, and John Harney (Magonia ETH Bulletin) questioning Klass
on the Walton case. Just off the top of my head. Even atheists
can disagree over why they don't believe in someone else's
deities.

>the skeptics, are counterproductive, YOU feed on ufology but
>bring nothing back to your host, This his the quintescence of
>parasitism, I dare say YOU are betraying yourselves: the credo
>of the skeptics should be "let's look into it" - the prelude to
>every adventure - not "I believe only in skepticism" which is
>the closest thing to 4_letter_word + "ing" + space + yourself.

I do say "let's look into it". I've done a bit of looking myself,
marrafack, tho' not all the results have been published. I found
(as I think I said in passing on this list) the recent Sturrock
report unexceptionable: even obvious. There are dozens of ways
I'd like to see "abductions" looked into, not least because I'd
like to bring some comfort and relief to the abductees of my
acquaintance; with whom I have had no problem so far agreeing to
disagree over the source or cause of their experiences. Give me
adventure every time.

If you're living on a precipice - and who isn't? - you may as
well get up and dance on it.

None of which will let Serge wriggle away from his
misrepresentation (the kindest word that comes to mind) of the
UpDates debate last year on the Belgian so-called FT of 1990.
Although out of kindness to most UpDates subscribers and all
native Francophones everywhere, I won't attempt to say that in
French.

best wishes
Parlophone D. Mercury
Old Forty-Five






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   Jul > Jul 26

                   SETI's Home PC Project: Further Details

From: Stig Agermose <wanderer@post8.tele.dk>
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 06:02:29 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 03:28:37 -0400
Subject: SETI's Home PC Project: Further Details

From: the July 25 issue of The New Scientist.

URL: http://www.newscientist.com:80/ns/980725/alienscreen.html


Stig


*******


First contact


Illustration: Mark Cocks

=A9=A9=A9=A9=A9=A9=A9=A9=A9=A9=A9=A9=A9=A9=A9=A9=A9=A9=A9=A9=A9=A9=A9=A9


While you're sound asleep your computer could be hunting for
aliens, says Hazel Muir


AT THE giant Arecibo radio telescope in Puerto Rico, the search
for the murmurs of extraterrestrial civilisations goes on.
Powerful computers hum as scientists scour the sky for signs of
life. But not content with their own computers, they want to use
yours too. The moment you leave your desk, they'll get to work,
tirelessly trawling through their data. And through the night as
you sleep they'll be there, still hunting for alien life.

This is the plan of Dan Werthimer, an astronomer at the
University of California at Berkeley. For 20 years, Werthimer
has been involved in the search for extraterrestrial
intelligence (SETI), and for the past six years he has been
using data from the Arecibo radio telescope to monitor the sky
for signals from alien civilisations. But his team can't search
the telescope's data as thoroughly as they'd like to. "The
search that we do now is limited by computing power," says
Werthimer.

And that's where your computer comes in. If all goes well, a new
project known as SETI@home will be up and running by the end of
the year. Werthimer and his colleagues--fellow SETI astronomer
Woody Sullivan and computer scientists David Anderson and David
Gedye--hope to provide more than 100 000 volunteers with
programs to run on their computers at home or at work. Swap your
flying toasters for their alien-hunting screen-saver, and you
could find fame as the proud owner of the PC that brought
extraterrestrial life into view for the very first time.

On a shoestring budget of $100 000 a year, Werthimer's SETI team
can do little more than look over other astronomers' shoulders
to monitor the sky. They have their own receiver at Arecibo, but
it rides "piggyback" on other radio receivers and can only pick
up signals from places that other radio astronomers are already
watching. So the researchers obtain a random view of the
heavens, typically revisiting a patch of sky every three to six
months.

What they are seeking from this random scan is a message
broadcast by aliens. The receiver continuously monitors
wavelengths of close to 21 centimetres (1420=B74 megahertz).
Clouds of neutral hydrogen atoms emit this wavelength. Because
hydrogen is the most common element in the Universe, some SETI
enthusiasts think that an extraterrestrial civilisation would
see this as the natural choice for broadcasts to their cosmic
cousins. The frequency is also fairly free of noise from Earth.
"It's a good quiet spot," says Werthimer.

Quick look

When the data come back, scientists use computers to sift out
any unusually intense radio signals in a frequency band 100
megahertz wide. But because of the limited computer power, the
search is fairly cursory--it can only alert the team to strong
signals if they are 0=B76 hertz wide. And should ET opt for a
pulsed signal shorter than 1=B77 seconds or longer than 10
seconds, the scientists would be none the wiser.

The plan for SETI@home is to focus on a narrower frequency
range, just 2 megahertz wide, but with 10 times the sensitivity.
"One of the things that we can do with SETI@home is look for
many different kinds of pulsing signals," says Werthimer. With
thousands of home computers joining in the search, the team
could spot alien calls that repeat with a period anywhere from
0=B75 milliseconds to 10 seconds. They will also be able to look
at more signal bandwidths, from 0=B71 to 2000 hertz wide.

Werthimer's team have already designed software that will send
250-kilobyte chunks of data from Arecibo to anyone who
volunteers. With a typical modem, the data would take a couple
of minutes to download. It would take about two days to analyse
the data chunk if the software runs all the time, or maybe a
week or two if it runs intermittently.

In one mode the software will run continuously in the
background, even when you are using your computer. Werthimer
maintains that you will scarcely notice it. "It might just have
a little thing at the bottom of the screen that says SETI@home
is running," he says. But if you prefer, SETI@home can also be
set to kick in whenever the machine is idle. Go off to make a
drink, stare out of the window to think, simply refrain from
pressing any keys for a couple of minutes and the SETI
screen-saver will signal that the program has come to life.

For this mode, there will be a choice of graphics. First comes
what Werthimer calls the "nerd graphics"--scientific graphics
telling you what the software is looking for and the kind of
signals it's finding. Or, if you prefer, there will be a
progress display, showing how much of your chunk of data you've
analysed. Alternatively, you can have the "world view", a map of
the Earth with a little dot showing every alien hunter round the
globe. Lastly there's the sky view, where you see a map of the
stars showing the patch of sky that you're working on.
Superimposed will be the mythological figures of the
constellations, so you can find out if your patch is on the
wings of Cygnus the swan or in Orion's armpit.

When you've finished processing a chunk of data, the software
will ask you to return the results of the analysis.
"Unfortunately, you won't know if you've discovered an
extraterrestrial right then," says Werthimer. Only after a
detailed search back at Berkeley to rule out interference, and a
second look at the same spot of sky, will there be any hint that
your humble PC has captured alien technology at work.

It's not the first time that many different computers have been
used for a common enterprise. For years, groups of encryption
enthusiasts have joined up over the Internet and used their
computers' idle time to crack codes. Earlier this year, a member
of a networked team of more than 4200 number-theory buffs found
the largest known prime number, which contains 909 526 digits.
But the huge public fascination with life beyond Earth could
make SETI@home by far the biggest project of its kind: "Finding
obscure prime numbers is not cool by
comparison," says Werthimer.

Fast work

"SETI is a dream problem for this approach," adds Anderson.
Because data from Arecibo can be chopped into chunks and
analysed independently by individual computers, he says, there's
no need for any slow data swapping. "If computers have to spend
lots of time exchanging data with each other, and not enough
time getting useful work done, it can be slower than doing it on
one machine."

Developing the technology has so far been straightforward, says
Anderson. And around 110 000 people have already signed up to
participate through the SETI@home website. The main bugbear for
the team has been finding the money for the project, which was
originally due to start this spring. It has raised around $115
000, but still needs another $200 000 from corporate sponsors
and interested individuals before it can start.

Werthimer is confident that the funding will turn up by the end
of the year. He's even optimistic that somebody, somewhere, will
pick up the signs of an extraterrestrial community within his
lifetime, whether through SETI@home or some future project. "My
view is that there's life out there," he says. "It would be
really bizarre if we were the only ones."

But would they be ready and willing for conversation, or simply
the extraterrestrial equivalents of amoebas and trees? "We're an
emerging civilisation--we're just getting in the game here,"
says Werthimer. He suspects that many alien communities have had
aeons longer to advance than us: "We're going to get into this
intergalactic web of civilisations who've been
talking to each other for millions of years." n

Further information:
sign up to participate in SETI@home at

http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu

From New Scientist, 25 July 1998

=A9 Copyright New Scientist, RBI Limited 1998











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   Jul > Jul 26

                   SPSR Issues MGS Cydonia Report To NASA

From: JJ Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.net>
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 10:26:47 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 10:16:43 -0400
Subject: SPSR Issues MGS Cydonia Report To NASA

From: http://www.mcdanielreport.com/nasarpt.htm

SPSR Issues Report to NASA

Analyses of MGS images by Carlotto, DiPietro, Brandenburg,
Moore, and Erjavec provided to NASA officials

Copyright =A9 1996 by Stanley V. McDaniel

This update July 25, 1998

EDITOR'S NOTE: Below is the summary report sent to NASA
officials yesterday by Dr. Horace W. Crater, president of the
Society for Planetary SETI Research (SPSR). Included with the
summary report were papers written by SPSR scientists, some of
which were presented at the American Geophysical Union
conference in Boston on May 28. It should be noted here that no
significant, detailed analysis of the MGS images has been
undertaken by NASA in relation to the Viking data and the
predictions and expectations connected with the hypothesis of
possible artificiality. As far as we know the work done by SPSR
scientists constitutes the only careful study of the images in
relation to the Viking data, using state-of-the-art techniques.

While NASA has held to its policy of "no comment" on the images,
several scientists associated with NASA stated prematurely on
the basis of subjective impressions that the MGS images had
conclusively established that the "Face" is a natural object. It
is a given that these scientists, who are as a whole unfamiliar
with the research that has been carried out on the Viking images
over the past twenty years and have little basis on which to
render a judgment, hardly know what may or may not be
significant with regard to artificiality in the new images. We
deplore the lack of scientific integrity shown by these
individuals on a matter of such importance. As the report states
below, the question is far from settled and the issue of
artificiality remains open.


SPSR

Society for Planetary SETI Research

THE MGS CYDONIA IMAGES

Preliminary Report

July 25, 1998

Prepared by Dr. Horace W. Crater, President SPSR On behalf of
the SPSR research team

Background

During the month of April, 1998, the Mars Global Surveyor (MGS)
obtained three new images of objects in the Cydonia region of
Mars. These three images included one of the "Face" and two of
the area that has been referred to as the "City." Premature
announcements by a few scientists, accompanied by a very early,
poorly processed picture of the Face, were widely disseminated
by the news media as final "proof" that nothing on Mars can be
considered possibly artificial. SPSR regrets these early
announcements, which were made prior to any significant study of
the images. In the weeks since image acquisition, SPSR
researchers have made a preliminary assessment of the impact
these new images may or may not have on the question of possible
artificiality, as well as the question of possible geological
anomaly. Our general finding is that while there are certainly
some negatives with regard to the artificiality hypothesis,
there are also some positive results.

General Observations

In the Viking images the eastern portion was mostly in darkness,
and it was hoped that the new image would resolve questions
regarding symmetry and detail on the eastern side of the "Face."
Unfortunately the one image of the Face that was obtained was
taken at a low angle of approximately 45 degrees from the
western side of the object. The eastern side, though
illuminated, is so severely truncated by the camera perspective
that even with the best efforts at orthorectification,
insufficient data is present to resolve these important issues.

Similarly, the two images of the "City" that were obtained
missed the most important object, secondary only to the Face,
which is the "Fortress." This object, along with the Face, had
produced one of the three most significant non-fractal
responses, and is visually unique in the landscape, exhibiting
what appear to be regular "walls" enclosing a central area. SPSR
scientists have never subscribed to the theory, advanced by
speculative individuals, that the "City" objects were pyramids,
or that the "City Square" is so anomalous as to be a major
object of concern. On the other hand, the "Fortress" remained an
object of great interest. Unfortunately these two images
captured only the "City Square" and portions of what some have
called "pyramids." Thus the questions regarding the "Fortress"
remain unanswered.

Although on the whole the so-called "pyramids" shown in the two
MGS "City" images do not appear obviously unusual, there are
some characteristics at or near the large feature known
generally as the "Main Pyramid" (the largest of the "City"
formations) that appear to require further investigation. These
are (a) apparent regular terracing in the form of two
rectangular ledges on the north side of the object, (b) a
circular depression with a peculiar rectangular "cut" extending
from it, located just north of the object, and (c) a crater on
the edge of the circular depression that has been interpreted by
SPSR geologist Harry Moore as possibly showing evidence of ice
on the crater floor.

Summary of Results to Date

Study of the new images by SPSR has focused on three main areas:
examination of the Face image, examination of the smaller
objects referred to as "mounds," whose geometric distribution
has been the subject of Dr. Horace Crater's research, and
unusual features possibly representing geological anomaly. Our
preliminary analyses have been recently presented at the meeting
of the American Geophysical Union (AGU) in Boston on May 28th,
1998. In addition several other SPSR members have produced
materials related to the imaging and erosion of the Face based
on the MGS images.

1. Examination of the Face Image

A. Overall Morphology

Dr. Mark J. Carlotto and Dr. John E. Brandenburg have done
independent analyses of the MGS Face image, including the best
possible effort at orthorectification of the image. Dr. Carlotto
states that within 1-8%, the features on the Face previously
referred to as the "helmet," forehead, middle brow, nose ridge,
mouth area, lips, and chin are placed symmetrically with respect
to the centerline of the formation. Given the low camera angle,
which renders orthorectification difficult, this result is
positive with respect to the artificiality hypothesis and
supports the SPSR prediction that the Face has the general
three-dimensional form as was suggested by the Viking images.

In addition, Dr. Carlotto's earlier prediction, based on
photoclinometric analysis of the two Viking images, of how the
shadowing on the Face would appear in the expected MGS orbit,
was correct. As a result we conclude that the algorithms used by
Dr. Carlotto to derive shape-from shading results for the Viking
images were accurate, and that the object does in fact have the
overall three dimensional morphology predicted from the Viking
images.[1]

Dr. John E. Brandenburg, using independent geometrically
controlled orthorectification, supports Dr. Carlotto's finding.
Just like Dr. Carlotto he uses the Viking data base to constrain
othorectification. His analysis, using mathematical techniques
based on the theory of surfaces, results in an approximation of
how the MGS resolved object would appear as if imaged from
above. In addition his analysis shows that despite the general
inadequacy of the data on the eastern side of the object, what
appears to be the second (eastern) eye socket is more
symmetrically placed than the non-rectified image would seem to
indicate.

B. Elements of Detail

Dr. Brandenburg has found evidence for what appears to be a
possible ornamentation on the "helmet" or upper portion of the
surrounding symmetrical berm. This element of detail, called a
possible ornamentation because of its symmetry, was predicted by
the Viking images [2] and is consistent with the predictions of
Dr. James F. Strange at the university of South Florida that
there could be culturally meaningful detail in higher resolution
images of the object.[3] Dr. Brandenburg also found that not
only is this feature itself very nearly symmetrical but also in
his orthorectified image it is symmetrically placed on the Face
mesa, confirming hints of this symmetry in the Viking data.
(Note however, that Dr. Carlotto's rectification does not
display this symmetrical placement).

There is also evidence for a "pupil" in the western eye socket,
which had been predicted by Mr. Vincent DiPietro on the basis of
the Viking images.[4] Dr. Carlotto states, however that it is
unclear whether this is an illusion created by a shadow or an
actual circular feature. An unexpected finding in the new image
is the presence of a more pronounced feature corresponding to a
"nose" which is in the appropriate location, has the appropriate
shape, and most surprisingly appears to have symmetrical
circular indentations suggestive of nostrils. Both of the
independently derived orthorectifications display this symmetry.

These and other elements of detail continue to support the
possibility that the object is an admittedly highly eroded, but
generally symmetric and three-dimensional, face-like anomaly.
There is little in the new image that is inconsistent with
expectation. On the contrary, the new image strongly supports
the morphology suggested by the Viking images. In particular we
call attention to the surrounding berm, which has been called
the "headpiece" or "helmet." This feature is remarkably
symmetrical and appears to have no immediately obvious
geological explanation. There is evidence of water erosion on
the berm that is suggestive of a former body of water
surrounding the object (see the paper by Mr. James Erjavec)

C. Negative Evidence

On the negative side, the evidence for "teeth" predicted from
the Viking images by Dr. Carlotto appears to be very weak if not
non-existent. Additionally, many of the individual features
considered in isolation from one another appear to be heavily
eroded natural formations. Against these apparent negative
results, we note that it is the overall placement of individual
features, consistent with a facial interpretation, that
continues to lend support to the hypothesis of possible
artificiality. SPSR member Ananda Sirisena has shown that the
sun angle in the MGS image could play a major part in obscuring
possible teeth-like features in the mouth area. SPSR researcher
Lan Fleming has investigated the question of whether the "eye"
and "mouth" features in the Viking images were shadows caused by
chance combination of solar illumination angle in those images
and the placement of ridges on the Face mesa not visible in the
Viking images. By studying both sets of images he concludes that
the features were created by either depression or enclosures of
significant depth relative to their width and not by fortuitous
ridge shadows. The MGS image supports the conclusion, advanced
previously by SPSR, that the "trick of light and shadow" theory
advanced by some to account for the facial appearance of the
object is not valid.

D. Analysis of the Image Quality

In a detailed account, Mr. Vincent DiPietro has analyzed the
image processing procedures used for the MGS images. It is his
conclusion that the quality of the single MGS Face image is poor
and not optimal for determination of detail. In particular,
DiPietro concludes that the minimal grey scale in the image
produces an effective reduction in the desired camera
resolution, by obscuring differences between pixels. We believe
that this evaluation of the image quality has been in effect
supported by recent statements from Dr. Michael C. Malin of
Malin Space Science Systems regarding the non-optimal quality of
the image.

2. The Small Mound Distribution

The analysis done previously by Dr. Horace W. Crater on the
geometric relationships of the small features referred to as
"mounds" remains unchanged by these new images. Only four of the
twelve mounds appear on the MGS "City" image, and only one of
them is part of the highly anomalous pentad (five-mound) feature
discovered earlier. The four mounds in the new image do have
angular placements consistent with those found on the earlier
Viking images, but since 12 mounds appeared in the Viking images
these four do not by themselves contribute significantly to the
geometrical anomaly we have found.

Regarding the previous geometric analysis of the mound
distribution, we note that a few JPL scientists have been
reported in the press as stating that such analyses are
meaningless because of the curvature of the planet's surface and
because of the uncertainty of coordinate location of objects on
Mars. Neither of these objections are relevant to Dr. Crater's
study, since his measurements are of relative placements, and at
the distances between the mounds, surface curvature is a
negligible factor. We stress that the mound placement anomaly is
firmly established by carefully controlled statistical tests,
and corroborated by an independent assessment based on an
archaeological technique. Thus regardless of any assessment of
other suspect objects, the mound distribution alone still stands
as an anomalous phenomena deserving of further investigation.

On the negative side, the few mounds that are visible in the new
images do not show any strong similarity of form or any clear
internal symmetry. (An exception is mound G whose boundary
displays bilateral symmetry). Taken separately they might not
stand out as other than natural objects. Nevertheless the fact
that we have only about four out of 12-16 mounds accounted for,
and that the most anomalous formation -- the five mounds of the
pentad to the south of the City area -- was not imaged, the
question of the cause for their distribution is not settled.

3. Anomalous Geological Features

SPSR geologist Harry Moore has identified what may be surface
ice at the bottom of one of the craters in image number three of
the Cydonia region near the so-called "Main Pyramid." We believe
this discovery could be of considerable importance, and that one
or more follow-up images of the crater should be taken,
preferably at different sun angles. Another SPSR geologist Mr.
James Erjavec has studied the evidence for water and sedementary
deposits on and around the Face mesa. Professor Stanley V.
McDaniel of SPSR, along with others, has pointed out possibly
anomalous terrace-like features at the north end of the "Main
Pyramid" and an anomalous depression located just north of that
formation.

Conclusion and Recommendations

The question of possible artificiality remains open. While at a
cursory glance, using poorly processed and unrectified images,
the Face may give the impression of an entirely natural feature,
close analysis shows that there are a number of consistencies
with the morphology predicted from the Viking images. There
remains overall symmetry, possible decorative ornamentation, and
other features placed in a manner consistent with a highly
eroded artificially constructed object. This, in combination
with the lack of data for the east side due to the camera
perspective, means that we do not yet have sufficient
information to invalidate the hypothesis of possible
artificiality or to establish the validity of that hypothesis
with regard to the Face. The lack of an image for the "Fortress"
and/or one of the two other major suspect formations (The "D&M"
object or the "Cliff") also leaves a significant data vacuum
that can only be filled by new MGS images of those objects.
Finally, the strong statistical anomaly of the small mound
distribution, corroborated by independent analyses, remains
unexplained.

We therefore strongly recommend, in view of Administrator
Goldin's strong public statements that Cydonia will be imaged
until a satisfactory resolution of the issues is obtained, that
NASA follow through on the policy given in our meeting with Dr.
Carl Pilcher, which was that the suspect area would be imaged
with the high resolution camera on every camera pass over that
area during the mapping mission of 1999-2000. With regard to the
Face, ideally what is needed are two overhead views with the sun
from the east in one and from the west in the other so that a
stereo graphic view can be constructed. However, we understand
that due to the constraints of the spacecraft orientation during
the mapping mission this may not be possible. However, if
camera strips are taken on every pass over the suspect area,
particularly using the intermediate resolution capability by
means of pixel averaging (long strips at approximately 11 meter
resolution), a large store of invaluable data could be obtained.
We are confident that the assurances we received from Dr.
Pilcher will be honored. We look forward to receiving adequate
data on which to make a final determination regarding the status
of the Cydonia objects.

Enclosures: papers, narratives and image discussions by SPSR
members:

a) Analysis of Global Surveyor Imagery of the Face on Mars.. Dr.
Mark Carlotto

b) Anomalously Distributed Mound Features on the Martian Cydonia
Plain.. Dr. Horace W. Crater and Dr. Stanley V. McDaniel

c) The New Mars Synthesis and the Cydonian Hypothesis: Models
Confront New Data.. Dr. John E. Brandenburg and Mr. Vincent
DiPietro

d) Evaluation of the "Eye" and "Mouth" Features of the Face
Mesa.. Mr. Lan Fleming

e) On the Question of "Teeth" in the Mouth Area of the Face
Mesa.. Mr. Ananda Sirisena

f) Discussion of the Image Process Analysis of the MGS Image..
Mr Vincent DiPietro

g) Anomalous Features "Ice in Craters"... Mr Harry Moore

h) Evidence of Water and Sedimentary Deposits in and Around
Cydonia ... Mr. James Erjavec..

FOOTNOTES

1. See The Case for the Face, Adventures Unlimited Press (1998),
pp. 60 - 65.

2. Carlotto, Mark J., "Enhancing the Subtle Details in the
Face." Ibid., page 53.

3. Strange, James F., "Predicting the Details: What We Will See
at Cydonia." Ibid., page 183.

4. DiPietro, Vincent, "Mars, the Planet of Mysteries," Ibid.,
page 25.







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   Jul > Jul 26

                          BWW Media Alert 19980726

From: Bufo Calvin <BufoCalvin@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 10:27:18 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:37:06 -0400
Subject: BWW Media Alert 19980726

Bufo Calvin
P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA  94596
Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Website: <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin">http://members.aol.com/bufo
calvin<;/a>
<A HREF="surprise link to Amazon.com">http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=048
6230945/bufosweirdworldA/<;/a>
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this
edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that attribution is made
to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with
strangers before you e-mail them something.  If you forward this, please make
sure it is clear that you are forwarding it).

July 26, 1998

One nice thing about not doing this until Sunday: Jeff Rense has his new
schedule up :) .  You can listen to Jeff's show on your computer, and you
should find some archived shows with me through the site.

Thanks to Cryptodude for giving me the heads-up on The Discovery Channel
running the Yorkshire TV's INTO THE UNKNOWN (cryptozoology series) again.

Listings are generally Pacific (or national).

RADIO

SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO (starring Jeff Rense)(syndicated, and available on Real
Audio at http://www.sightings.com)
Sunday, July 26, 8:00 PM,  Encore: Clifford Stone: UFO Crash Retrievals Pt.1
Monday July 27, 7:00 PM, Joan Veon: New War Crimes World Court;
Kenn Thomas: Legacy Of Philip Corso
Tuesday, July 28, 7:00 PM,  Bill Oliver UFO*BC: Canada UFO Report;
Jon Rappoport: Disappearance Of #1 Atheist
Wednesday, July 29, 7:00 PM, Michael Lindemann: Weekly UFO/ET Update
Don Bradley: Remote Viewing In WWII
Thursday, July 30, 7:00 PM, Gene Egidio: Whose Hand Are These?
Friday, July 31, 7:00 PM, Clifford Stone: UFO Crash Retrievals Pt.2


TELEVISION

A&E
Sunday, July 26, 5:00 PM, THE UNEXPLAINED: THE CURSE OF KING TUT

THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL
Sunday, July 26, 1:00 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S WORLD OF STRANGE POWERS: MESSAGES
FROM THE DEAD
Sunday, July 26, 1:30 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: ARE ALIENS
TRYING TO CONTACT US? (includes the Face on Mars)
Sunday, July 26, 2:30 PM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: SEA SERPENT
Thursday, July 30, 9:00 PM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: THE GOD BEAR OF KAMCHATCKA
Friday, July 31, 1:00 AM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: THE GOD BEAR OF KAMCHATCKA
Sunday, August 2, 1:00 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S WORLD OF STRANGE POWERS: THE
VERDICT
Sunday, August 2, 1:30 PM, ARTHUR C.CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: MYSTERY CATS
(big cats living in Britain)
Sunday, August 2, 2:30 PM, INTO THE UNKNOWN: THE GOD BEAR OF KAMCHATKA

THE HISTORY CHANNEL
Monday, July 27, 5:00 PM, IN SEARCH OF HISTORY: THE LOCH NESS MONSTER
Monday, July 27, 9:00 PM, IN SEARCH OF HISTORY: THE LOCH NESS MONSTER
Tuesday, July 28, 1:00 AM, IN SEARCH OF HISTORY: THE LOCH NESS MONSTER

THE LEARNING CHANNEL
Sunday, July 26, 6:00 PM, UFO: STORIES OF ABDUCTION
Sunday, July 26, 9:00 PM, UFO: STORIES OF ABDUCTION
Tuesday, July 28, 7:00 PM, ALIEN HUNTERS (this looks like it includes the
Russian giant landing)
Tuesday, July 28, 10:00 PM, ALIEN HUNTERS
Wednesday, July 29, 7:00 PM, SKYWATCHERS (UFO buffs)
Wednesday, July 29, 10:00 PM, SKYWATCHERS (UFO buffs)
Saturday, August 1, 3:00 PM, UFO:STORIES OF ABDUCTION
Sunday, August 2, 12:00 PM, SKYWATCHERS (UFO buffs)
Sunday, August 2, 1:00 PM, ALIEN HUNTERS (this looks like it includes the
Russian giant landing)

THE SCI-FI CHANNEL
They've increased the SIGHTINGS re-runs, although they've gotten a bit quirky
with the schedule.  Figure 9:00 AM, 4:00 PM, and 8:00 PM most weekdays.
Sundays are typically 8:00 AM and 11:00 PM.

THE SCIENCE CHANNEL
Runs weird programming at 6:00 AM, 6:30 AM, 2:00 PM, 2:30 PM, 10:00 PM, and
10:30 PM

TNT
Sunday, August 2, 2:15 AM, BIGFOOT: MAN OR BEAST?
___________________________

This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!"
____________________________

You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly
redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by
e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com.  You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to
Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert the same way. Also, please let me know if
there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, t
he week before.
_____________________________

**OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an
Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS
encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions:
however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece
or others presented under my own name.  For more information on OPUS, see its we
bsite at http://members.aol.com/josephxx3






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   Jul > Jul 26

                           Re: The Chinese Roswell

From: Bruno Mancusi <Bruno.Mancusi@com.mcnet.ch>
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 18:23:21 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:46:18 -0400
Subject: Re: The Chinese Roswell

> From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 02:29:42 +0200
> Subject: The Chinese Roswell

> [Seems to me that the following has been discussed on UpDates
>  in the past and the consenus was that it was a pile of
>  'Dung Phooey' --ebk]

Hi Stig, Errol and list members,

This article from Hartwig Hausdorf don't give any new evidence on
the (in)famous Bayan-Kara-Ula affair.

I wrote a brief paper about the disks of Baian-Kara-Ula in
'Ovni-Presence' #48, August 1992, p. 33. It surprised me that no
one had checked the first ufological reference:
'UFO-Nachrichten' #95, July 1964, p. 3 (an English translation
appeared anonymously in 'Flying Saucers' #67, December 1969, p.
8. The original paper was erroneously dated "July 1969"). The
author was Reinhardt Wegemann, apparently Tokyo correspondent of
a DINA news agency.

It seems that this paper was printed in various German journals,
such as 'UFO-Nachrichten' and 'Das vegetarische Universum'.
Later, it was reprinted in French in the Belgian Adamski
newsletter 'BUFOI' #4, March-April 1965, and in 1967 in 'Soviet
Weekly' and 'Sputnik' (the Soviet 'Reader's Digest'). It was
these two articles by Viacheslav Zaitsev which made this story
famous.

Later, we can found the story in the usual archaeology fiction
books from Tomas, Charroux, Durrant, von Daniken,
Ostrander/Schroeder, Frederick, Kolosimo, etc.

Gordon Creighton published a skeptic article on the story in
'Flying Saucer Review' vol. 19, #1, January-February 1973, pp.
24-27.

It would be interesting to find DINA's original dispatch.
Perhaps it was simply another April Fool's trick?

BTW, a French author, Daniel Piret, wrote a novel based on this
affair : 'Les disques de Biem-Kara', Fleuve Noir, Paris 1973.

Regards
Bruno






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   Jul > Jul 26

                              Re: Meier Picture

From: Don Ecker <decker@ufomag.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 10:25:06 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:07:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Meier Picture


> From: Mendoza, Duke Peter Brookesmith <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
> Subject: Meier Pictures
> Sender: Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> Compliments of the Duke:

> >From: Don Ecker <decker@ufomag.com>

> >The Mossad used a .22 caliber weapon for "executive actions",
> >but it was a Berreta (sp?) in a .22 caliber SHORT.

> My informants beg to differ, and I wouldn't trust a .22 Short to
> do such dirty work; and I don't think Beretta made a pistol in
> that calibre (not that Mossad wouldn't be able to order a
> special, of course). But I have moles burrowing to double check.
> It was certainly my understanding that Gerald Bull, designer of
> the Iraqui "supergun", exited this life thanks to the .22WMR.

My dear Duke.

Your British view on firearms is showing. You better check back
with your moles. Beretta DID make such a weapon, Mossad did use
it, and it was in .22 short. The idea was that such a pistol can
be made to be virtually SILENT with the addition of a sound
suppresser. The operator's job was to get right next to the
target and then fire "point blank" into the targets cranium 5 or
6 times. How do I know? They blew an assassination in Europe
where they hit the wrong Arab. The target was believed to have
been a part of the terrorist team that murdered Israeli athletes
in Munich, Germany in 1972. The point being they get "up close
and personal" with the target.

We had a .22 caliber LR pistol, a High-Standard, for special
operations in Viet Nam. A bit larger than the Berretta, but it
was used in pretty much the same way.

> >But back to
> >the reason I wrote this, the idea of comparing a .22 WMR to a
> >.45 ACP as carrying more kinetic energy is just patently
> >ridiculous. Kind of like comparing a small stone to a huge block
> >of granite.

> Not entirely. Compare these ammo specs:

> CCI +V     .22WMR   40gr  2000ft/sec  355ft/lb
> Federal    .22WMR   50gr  1650ft/sec  302ft/lb

> Winchester .45ACP  185gr   775ft/sec  245ft/lb
> Winchester .45ACP  210gr   710ft/sec  235ft/lb
> Winchester .45ACP  230gr   850ft/sec  410ft/lb

HOKAY Dukey ol' chum. Don't have an idea where you got your specs
at, but Gee they just don't seem quite correct. The .22 WMR 40
Grn. round leaving the bore at 2000 fps? Don't think so amigo.
Not out of a pistol at anyrate. Perhaps a rifle IF IT WERE LOADED
REAL HOT.

And Dukey, the Winchester .45 185 Grn. at 775 fps? NOPE, not in
this lifetime. Well, maybe if were a handloaded TARGET Round. Not
the "Silvertip". That is a very hot cartridge, over a 1000 fps
out of a 5 inch barrel. The 210 Grn. round? Real close to 1000
fps. Now I know Errol will be getting tired of this without the
UFO connection. So since you are a part of the skeptical
community (read that..... UFOs can't exist cause they can't
exist) I suggest you do some more study on the .45 ACP question
and the UFO one as well.

Oh yes, and I send my compliments as well.

Don (Sam Colt was a Hell of a Man) Ecker

--
Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with
confidence.
Don Ecker
UFO Magazine
www.ufomagazine.com








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   Jul > Jul 26

                Re: US Criminal Law - Defamation On Webpages

From: Rod Eastman <darkstar@carrollsweb.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 12:04:57 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:02:54 -0400
Subject: Re: US Criminal Law - Defamation On Webpages

> From: Stig Agermose <wanderer@post8.tele.dk>
> Subject: Federal Criminal Law Against Defamation On Webpages
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 03:04:41 +0200

> >From NY MUFON's mailing list.

> Stig
> ____________________________________

> Date: 26 Jul 1998 00:22:52 -0000
> From: "Larry Clark" <lclark@ibm.net>
> To: "Jed Turnbell" <Jedstar@aol.com>

> <snip>

> Subject: internet use
> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:26:34 -0400

> NY Mutual UFO Network Postings -
> http://www.nymufon.org

> Hi all:

> I received a message from the state director with important news
> for all our internet users. Dana wrote:

> "that there is now a federal criminal law against defamation on
> the Internet (eg, the Webpage). Already there has been a
> conviction, in New England I believe, where there was prison
> time, a fine, AND seizure of the computer equipment used by the
> convicted. So be careful what you say on our Webpage"

> Enough said! Be careful out there! I myself was accused of
> copying someone's WEB page, changing the contents, and posting
> it to the state site, and pretending it was on another site. The
> bizarre thing about that was when you went to the alleged forged
> page, it clearly showed (and still does) the person's WEB
> address. To pun a phrase "Oh, what webs we weave, when we
> practice to............."

> Regards,

> Larry Clark

 Larry;

   If possible, can you provide more background on this new law, ergo
the statute ##, enforcing agency, ect.. this may be helpfull as a knife
that does cut two ways. And names or information will be helpfull.
Thanks. Rod.h





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                      UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 30

From: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 12:58:59 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:49:31 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 30


     UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 3, Number 30
July 26, 1998
Editor: Joseph Trainor

FOUR CATTLE MUTILATED
NEAR ST. JOHNS, ARIZONA

     On Monday, July 20, 1998, four cows were found
mutilated on a ranch near St. Johns, Arizona
(population 3294), a town on Highway 191 about
135 miles (216 kilometers) east of Flagstaff.
     According to Mary C. of Concho, Ariz., all four
cows were carrying calves at the time.  "The blood
was gone (from the cattle) and the eyes were gone,"
she reported, "Also about 30 feet away from them
were the unborn calves."
     The tongues of the four cows and the unborn
calves were removed by the mutilators.  The loss
was estimated at $10,000.  According to Mary, the
Arizona Cattleman's Association plans to
investigate the incident.
     According to Terry W. Colvin, there have been
other mutilations recently in eastern Arizona.
"Something is killing and mutilating cattle, horses
and other animals in the southeastern Arizona
counties of Cochise, Pima and Santa Cruz."
     "Robert Marsett, a cowhand with the Sands ranch,
told of a recent kill and mutilation," Colvin reported.
"The carcass appeared where only live cattle were seen
the day before, but the dead cow smelled as though
dead for several days.  Marsett says coyotes and
vultures did not approach the carcass.  Nearby cows
failed to nuzzle the carcass, as usually happens.
Some blood was drained, organs were removed, and
some samples were taken in the genital/rectal area."
(Many thanks to AGETI and Steve Wilson Sr. for these
news stories.)

TRIANGULAR UFO SEEN
OVER SEDONA, ARIZONA

     On Wednesday, July 15, 1998, at 10 p.m., Karl J.
and three friends spotted "a very large UFO over the
general area of Schnebly Hill" in Sedona, Arizona
(population 7,720), a town on Highway 89A about
24 miles (38 kilometers) south of Flagstaff.
     Karl described the UFO as "several times larger
than a passenger airliner such as the Concorde" and
as "a dark-colored equilateral triangle with a bright
white light on each corner and a larger light source,
a glaring orange-red light in the middle.  It came from
the general direction of Flagstaff (north) and then
changed direction.  It made very little, if any, sound.
The entire sighting lasted five to ten minutes, ending
when it flew out of visual range."
     Another witness, Michelle, reported, "The triangular-
shaped object was moving across the sky faster than
conventional aircraft.  But because of the excessive
size of the craft, it created the impression that it was
moving in a slow, steady rate.  It was a dark or amber
brown in color and giving the impression of an
effervescent gilded glow" which "helped to define its
triangular shape.  It came from a northerly direction
and abruptly veered off in an eastern direction."
     "If I held up a watermelon at arm's length in front of
me, it would not have obscured the triangular shape
from view," she reported, adding that the object was
"perhaps bigger than a flying football field."  (Many
thanks to Peter Gersten of Citizens Against UFO
Secrecy, CAUS, for forwarding these reports.)

V-SHAPED UFO FLIES OVER
SOUTHERN RHODE ISLAND

     On Wednesday, July 22, 1998, at 10 p.m.,
Pamela S. and her husband were relaxing on the
deck of their home in Matunuck, Rhode Island
(population 550) when they spotted a V-shaped
UFO passing overhead.
     "It was a warm evening, and I was laying down
on my deck," Pamela reported, "Suddenly, I saw
this huge V-shaped object coming from the south
heading north.  It appeared to glide across the sky,
and I could not hear any engine-type noise."
     Matunuck is a village on Rhode Island's
southern Atlantic Ocean shore, located on Potter
Road just off U.S. Route 1, about 40 miles
(64 kilometers) south of Providence, the state
capital.
     As the UFO came in over the ocean and
flew north over Washington County (better known
to Rhode Islanders as "South County"--J.T.), she
added, "I would say it was silent.  It appeared to
have several box-shaped areas that sort of glowed.
I wouldn't call it a light."
     "Unfortunately, my husband was resting and
did not have his eyeglasses on, but he too saw the
V-shaped object but could not see any details."
(Many thanks for Peter Gersten of CAUS for
forwarding this report.)
(Editor's Comment:  Now the UFOs are really
close to home.  Your editor lives about 20 miles
north of Matunuck.)

DAYLIGHT DISC SPOTTED IN
CORVALLIS, OREGON

     On Thursday, July 16, 1998, in mid-afternoon,
James D. was at his home in Corvallis, Oregon
(population 44,959) when he spotted a gleam
in the sky.
     "I was in our front yard in Corvallis, Oregon,
admiring the blueness of the sky," James reported,
when he "looked up and watched a plane go by,
north to south, at a high elevation angle above the
western horizon.  While still facing west with my
head turned up, I suddenly saw this whitish thing
speed by from nearly overhead, traveling toward
the west in a perfectly straight line until it disappeared
in the distance at about 20 degrees elevation.  But it
was only visible for about two seconds, or maybe only
1.5 seconds, so fast was it going."
     "It seemed to be at a considerable height, like 500
to 1,000 feet," he added, "It was sort of a 'misty' white
object with no shaded underside and no highlights
reflecting the sunlight."
     Corvallis is at the intersection of Oregon Highways
99E and 24 approximately 81 miles (129 kilometers)
south of Portland.  (Many thanks to Steve Wilson Sr.
for forwarding this report.)

FOUR GLOWING UFOs HOVER
OVER A NEIGHBORHOOD IN
REDDING, CALIFORNIA

     On Thursday, July 22, 1998, at 1:35 a.m., four
brightly luminous UFOs hovered over a suburban
neighborhood near Lake Boulevard in Redding,
California (population 66,462).  The objects
were seen by a woman and her two grandchildren.
     According to Bonnie R., her mother, E.R., her
12-year-old niece N. H., and her six-year-old
nephew Devon R. watched the UFO display for
over 45 minutes and even telephoned her while it
was going on.
     The incident began when Devon "was awakened
by the extremely bright light coming through the
bedroom (window), and he woke his sister up.  They
couldn't see any bodies (fuselage) because of the
intensity of the light, but they seemed to be the size
of a golf ball held out at arm's length.  They seemed
to be white.  It started at 1:35 a.m. and went on until
well past 2 a.m."
     "The UFOs were in close proximity to the house,"
she added, "probably less than a tenth of a mile
(0.2 kilometers) away.  It started with four bright lights
which were rising up and then sort of bobbing in the
air side-to-side maneuvers, then they 'exploded' and
more lights and smaller sparks flew around them."
     "My nephew was screaming because he had never
seen such a thing, but my mom, of course, was
terrified that they had come to abduct her again.
And Devon got on the phone and" described what
they were seeing, and "he did tell a pretty good
description."
     Redding is on Highway 299 approximately 212
miles (339 kilometers) northeast of San Francisco.
(Email Interview)

ANOTHER GREEN FIREBALL
IN THE MOJAVE DESERT

     On Tuesday, July 14, 1998, at 12:31 a.m., Jack
L. Curtis was driving on California Highway 58
near Mojave (population 3,673) when he spotted
a mysterious bluish-green fireball cleaving the
desert's night sky.
     "I was traveling eastbound on Highway 58
about 75 miles east of Bakersfield.  I was about
ten miles (16 kilometers) east of Mojave when I
noticed another fireball," Jack reported.
     "This one was blue/green in color and unlike
the others (Jack reported last month--J.T.) had a
short orange-yellow flickering tail.  Visibility
estimated at four seconds start-to-end.  The
highway at this location runs directly eastward,
and the fireball was at about 40 degrees above
the horizon at start and end on the highway.
The azimuth was approximately 70 degrees,
according to the marine compass mounted on
my dash (dashboard).  It was in a very steep
descent, appearing to be flying straight toward
the ground.  The size was about the size of a
fist, and the tail was about two feet in length
and was really flickering and changing (color)
between orange and yellow."
     This was Jack's fourth fireball sighting since
April.  Mojave is located about 80 miles
(128 kilometers) north of Los Angeles.  (Email
Interview)

MICHIGAN HAS TWO MORE
UFO SIGHTINGS

     On Friday, July 17, 1998, at 11:10 p.m., a
woman in Pinckney, Michigan (population 1,603)
"noticed a 'white light' flashing just outside her
kitchen window.  She found this odd because the
kitchen window faces a large open field, not the
road, and that 'it does get pitch black out there.'"
     Moving closer to the window, the witness
"looked outside and noticed 'a bright red light,
I mean, bright' which just appeared in the southeast
flying slowly in a northwesterly direction.  It stopped
above the tree line outside her kitchen window. She
described it as 'a softball-sized, round, bright red
light...like a big tomato' with no defined edges.
The light hovered in this position for approximately
ten to fifteen minutes."
     Deciding not to go outside for a closer look,
the woman watched as the UFO moved slowly
westward" before vanishing from view.
     Pinckney is on Michigan Highway 36 about
52 miles (84 kilometers) west of Detroit.  (Many
thanks to Alex Cavallari for this report.)
     The following night, Saturday, July 18, 1998,
at 10:50 p.m., a couple in Marlette, Michigan
(population 1,924) spotted a UFO.
     According to Jeffrey S. Westover of Michigan
MUFON, the couple--Lee, 54, and Norman, 52--
were "stargazing from their backyard patio" and
saw "a bright golden-yellow star-like object moving
from the northwest, near the Big Dipper, to the
southeast.  'It flew at least as twice as fast as a
(commercial) jet and traveled in a perfectly straight
line,' said Norm, 'There was no sound.'"
     "Five minutes later, a second star-like object
followed exactly the same path, originating from
the northwest, passing through the Big Dipper and
traveling to the southeast.  Both objects were
comparable in brightness to 2.5 magnitude stars."
     At approximately 11:15 p.m., Lee and Norm
witnessed "'a single white light, moving at typical
jet speed' and as bright as a third magnitude star.
The bright light was steady, not pulsing, as it moved
through Ursa Major.  With the witnesses facing
north, and the object moving away at approximately
70 degrees altitude, it suddenly flared.  The flare
expanded the light to about ten times its original
size."
     "'We both exclaimed, WOW! at the same time,'
Norm said. The flare lasted for about a second before
the light returned to its original size.  A few seconds
later, it flared again.  At this point, the light disappeared
to the north."  (Many thanks to Jeffrey S. Westover of
Michigan MUFON for this report.)

TWO SAUCERS FLY OVER
RED DEER, ALBERTA

     On Sunday, July 19, 1998, at 9:40 p.m., Cameron
Smith was in his hometown of Red Deer, Alberta,
Canada (population 58,134) when he "saw two
wobbly discs of a silver gray colour fly by slowly
at the speed of an aircraft."
     Smith wants to know if anyone else in Alberta
had a sighting that night.  Witnesses can write to
him at #8 Arquetel Close, Red Deer, Alberta
74R 1G7, Canada.
     Red Deer is 84 miles (134 kilometers) south of
Edmonton, the provincial capital.  (See Filer's Files
#29 for 1998.  Many thanks to George A. Filer,
Eastern Director of MUFON, for this news story.)

SILVER TRIANGULAR UFO
SEEN IN WOLVERHAMPTON

     On Saturday, July 18, 1998, at midnight,
Stephen T. was on Wellington Road in Bilston, a
suburb of Wolverhampton, West Midlands, UK,
when he sighted a triangular UFO.
     "It appeared to be silver in colour and was
traveling eastward," Stephen reported, "There were
no apparent lights that I could see.  The object
appeared to be only 1,000 feet up.  It was traveling
fairly fast.  The object had rounded aerodynamic
corners.  It was about 80 degrees above the horizon.
It was a fairly clear night with little cloud in place.
I had the object in view for about five to ten seconds,
after which time it reached the horizon and disappeared
into a cloud in the distance."  (Email Interview)

UFOs FLY OVER LONDON AND
HERTFORDSHIRE

     On Sunday, July 12, 1998, at 7:10 p.m., a man
driving on motorway A505 in Royston, Hertfordshire,
UK suddenly spotted a squadron of "eight to ten
UFOs" hovering over a field.
     "The witness was driving at the time of viewing the
objects and had first viewed them from the A10
Royston roundabout (rotary in the USA).  The objects
were interacting with each other" and remained in one
single portion of the sky.  "Their movement seemed
unflowing (quirky) and electrical.  The objects were
hovering just above the peak of the hill.  The sighting
lasted approximately two minutes.  As it was still
early evening and pretty light out, the objects were
reflecting the fading sunlight...a silver or white colour
coming off the objects."
     On Sunday, July 19, 1998, at 3:30 a.m., two
witnesses in the Vauxhall section of central London
"noticed two golden-orange luminous objects"
crossing the sky.  "The objects came from the south
and were heading east."  The UFOs moved in close
tandem, "almost as a single object," and remained in
view for one minute, 45 seconds before disappearing
behind some nearby buildings.  (Many thanks to
Roy Hale of ELUFON and Errol Bruce-Knapp for
these news stories.)

BLACK HELICOPTERS ACTIVE
IN MANY STATES OF THE USA

     Black helicopters were sighted last week in
Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and
North Carolina.
     On Saturday, July 18, 1998, "an all-black
helicopter with no markings" was seen by motorists
just north of Madison (population 191,262), the
state capital of Wisconsin.
     Also on Saturday, July 18, at 12:30 a.m., "three
helicopters flew west to east over XPI's headquarters.
'The helicopters flew so low they knocked the power
off the VCRs,' said Scott Leeper, who was inside
the building" in Rockwell, North Carolina (population
1,598), a small town on Highway 52 about 130 miles
(208 kilometers) southwest of Raleigh.
     XPI is a ufological investigation group closely
affiliated with American UFO Newsletter.  AUFON
editor Stefan Duncan was not in the building at the
time of the overflight.
     On Sunday, July 19, 1998, the solo black
helicopter was seen again, this time south of Madison,
Wis.  Eyewitnesses said the pilot "flew a grid pattern
over the area."  The helicopter "remained in sighr for
approximately ten minutes."
     On Monday, July 20, 1998, at 5:39 p.m., a single
black AH-1 Cobra attack helicopter was spotted flying
west above Interstate Highway 76 about two miles
south of King of Prussia, Pennsylvania (population
18406), a suburb of Philadelphia.
     Also on Monday, July 20, at about 2 p.m., a
motorist on Interstate Highway 94, just west of
Ann Arbor, Michigan, reported sighting "a black
helicopter with no markings at all, just a few
numbers on the tail (boom)."
     At least one Michigan helicopter was identified
as belonging to the Michigan Air National Guard.
While flying over the Thornapple River near Hastings,
Michigan (population 6,549), the crew was searching
for hidden marijuana fields when they spotted a man
on the ground "shaking his fist" at them and "acting
in a suspicious manner."
     When the man climbed into a truck and drove
away, the ANG helicopter notified authorities and
gave them a description of the vehicle.  Police
arrested the man, Mark Koernke, 41, also known
as "Mark from Michigan," a militia spokesman
and co-host of the radio talk show Intelligence Report.
Koernke had been wanted by Michigan authorities
for weeks on charges of assault and failure to appear
in court.
     According to radio co-host John Stadtmiller,
Koernke and another woman, Annie Dawson, were
being held at the Washtenaw County Jail near Ann
Arbor pending an upcoming court appearance.
     Hastings is on Michigan Highway 37 about
38 miles (61 kilometers) southwest of Lansing,
the state capital.
     On Tuesday, July 21, 1998, a private pilot
waiting to take off from Midway Airport, at the
intersection of 55th Street and Cicero Road in
Chicago, Illinois saw "three black helicopters
parked out at the far end of the runway."
     On Thursday, July 23, 1998, AUFON editor
Stefan Duncan reported seeing "a small black
unmarked helicopter fly fast and low over the
trees about 100 yards" from the XPI building
in Rockwell, North Carolina.
(See American UFO Newsletter #13 for 1998,
the Grand Rapids, Michigan Free Press and
the Battle Creek, Michigan Enquirer for July 22,
1998.  Many thanks to all the readers who
contributed reports to this story.)
(Editor's Note:  Mark Koernke's videotapes
America In Peril 1 and 2 were among the
items confiscated from the Heaven's Gate
group's cache in Encino, California in
late March 1997.  See UFO Roundup, Volume 2,
Number 13.)

from the UFO Files...

1970: A UFO ENCOUNTER IN
          NEW SOUTH WALES

     "On Thursday, 30th July 1970, a Mr. Phillips was
standing on a lookout above Laura Cascades which
overlooks the Jamison Valley" of New South Wales
"when directly ahead of him, a strange object of brilliant
falmaing silver colour suddenly appeared from behind
Mount Solitary.  The time was 5:30 p.m. and the sky
was clear.  Mr. Phillips judged the object to be about
10 kilometres (6 miles) away across the valley, and four
or five degrees east of due south and about the same
angle above the horizon."
     "The object was quite large, as big as a large
aircraft, and emitted no noise.  It was shaped like a
sphere, the top being joined to a cylinder and the
conical section between them appearing to follow an
exponential curve.  After remaining motionless for
half a minute after its appearance, the mysterious
craft suddenly moved off at a terrific speed, soaring
upward into the sky and disappearing from sight."
(See MYSTERIOUS AUSTRALIA by Rex Gilroy,
Nexus Publishing, Mapleton, Qnld., Australia, 1995,
page 25)

     Twenty-five years ago, on July 26, 1973, astronauts
Allan L. Bean, Owen K. Garriott and Jack R. Lousma
blasted off from Cape Canaveral for a rendezvous with
the orbiting Skylab.  Their 59-day mission was the
USA's first serious attempt at a long-duration space
flight.

     And we'll be back next weekend with more saucer
news from around the planet, brought to you by
"the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup."  See
you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1998 by Masinaigan
Productions, all rights reserved.  Readers may post
items from UFO Roundup on their websites and in
newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter
and its editor by name and list the date of issue in
which the item first appeared.








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   Jul > Jul 26

                             Re: Meier Pictures

From: Kal K. Korff <TotlResrch@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 17:01:51 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 17:15:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Meier Pictures


Dear Esteemed Colleagues: The Duke of Mendoza, Don Ecker, Bruce
Maccabee, and yes, even (shudder!) Jim Deardorff, who has yet to
set us straight on this matter!!

The issue of Meier's bullets and ballistics are all fine and
dandy, each of you of course have some very valid points.
However, I think you forgot to factor in the following:

'Pleadian Physics'.

You see, since Meier's imagination and Pleiadian Physics are one
and the same, we have to account for in any of our equations,
the "MI" (Meier's Imagination) factor and remember the
following:

According to Meier and those dumb enough to _still_ believe in
him, Meier has a small pond surrounded by various one arm made
(Meier made) "crystals" of various bright colors. These
crystals, according to Meier's people at his cult, are aligned
and tuned into the right vibrational frequencies so as to
protect Meier from harm, danger and people with bad intentions,
such as those that want to expose the truth about him, etc.

We may safely assume that Meier's much-vaunted Pleiadian
Protection System was malfuntioning all seven times I was
secretly on his property, and as of just a few months ago,
actually successfully went undercover, secretly in Meier's own
house! Boy, what a pad!

The man is hardly poor, let alone humble! But the people around
him dress in cheap, ragged-out hippie type clothes. Ahhh, this
way more money and resources for their Master, Mr. Meier!

But back to the Pleiadian Physics. Meier is protected by this
crystal garden and therefore all bullets are going to miss him
and go astray and befuddle even the best of the dreaded
assassins.

And don't forget those equally-dreaded Men in Black, who hoaxed
hundreds of Meier's time-travel pictures, saving him the
trouble. They did such a good job, that they fooled even Meier,
who couldn't even recognize that the faked pictures weren't his
own hoaxed images!

Darn those Pleiadians to render everyone's physics and real-life
military experience irrelevant, eh? But we're just not as
"Enlightened" as Mr. Meier and must settle for being grounded in
the real world.

Kal (I just winged this post) Korff







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   Jul > Jul 26

                              Greek UFO Groups?

From: Werner Walter <113236.1604@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:09:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 19:42:09 -0400
Subject: Greek UFO Groups?

Hi List-Members,

Has anyone Smail-addresses for Greek UFO-groups for me?

Werner






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   Jul > Jul 26

               Re: Federal Criminal Law Against Defamation On

From: Larry Clark <lclark@ibm.net>
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 19:24:48 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 19:40:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Federal Criminal Law Against Defamation On


>From: Rod Eastman <darkstar@carrollsweb.com>
>Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 12:04:57 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: US Criminal Law - Defamation On Webpages

>> From: Stig Agermose <wanderer@post8.tele.dk>
>> Subject: Federal Criminal Law Against Defamation On Webpages
>> To: updates@globalserve.net
>> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 03:04:41 +0200

>> >From NY MUFON's mailing list.

>> Stig
>> ____________________________________

>> Date: 26 Jul 1998 00:22:52 -0000
>> From: "Larry Clark" <lclark@ibm.net>
>> To: "Jed Turnbell" <Jedstar@aol.com>

>> <snip>

>> Subject: internet use
>> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:26:34 -0400

>> NY Mutual UFO Network Postings -
>> http://www.nymufon.org

>> Hi all:

>> I received a message from the state director with important news
>> for all our internet users. Dana wrote:

>> "that there is now a federal criminal law against defamation on
>> the Internet (eg, the Webpage). Already there has been a
>> conviction, in New England I believe, where there was prison
>> time, a fine, AND seizure of the computer equipment used by the
>> convicted. So be careful what you say on our Webpage"

>> Enough said! Be careful out there! I myself was accused of
>> copying someone's WEB page, changing the contents, and posting
>> it to the state site, and pretending it was on another site. The
>> bizarre thing about that was when you went to the alleged forged
>> page, it clearly showed (and still does) the person's WEB
>> address. To pun a phrase "Oh, what webs we weave, when we
>> practice to............."

>> Regards,

>> Larry Clark

> Larry;

>   If possible, can you provide more background on this new law, ergo
>the statute ##, enforcing agency, ect.. this may be helpfull as a knife
>that does cut two ways. And names or information will be helpfull.
>Thanks. Rod.h

Hi:

I personally do not know anything about the law. I Cc:ed the
State Director, Dana Schmidt, who is a lawyer and familiar with
those kinds of things.

Regards,

Larry Clark





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   Jul > Jul 26

                           Lake Ontario 'Streaks'

From: Jennifer Jarvis <fierycelt@full-moon.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 17:45:44 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 19:51:33 -0400
Subject: Lake Ontario 'Streaks'

Hi Errol and List.

We were out again on Friday and Saturday nights, down in Niagara
on the Lake. Both nights we observed a "streak" in the northwest
sky. The Friday night event changed course before it disappeared
below the horizon.


Did anyone else notice these events?

I have posted  6 frames from the Friday night video on ORBWATCH.
The link can be found on the New Site Updates Menu of the Home
Page, dated 26th July.

Best wishes.

Jennifer Jarvis.

--
"It is a strange place where ships, planes and
people vanish into thin air, where weird fogs and
globes of light abound, where ominous waters
shroud sinister events."

Hugh Cochrane, "Gateway to Oblivion."

*******************************************
Please visit our website "ORBWATCH" at

http://www.per.to/orbwatch

*******************************************








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                             Re: Sturrock Panel

From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 22:55:15 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 23:49:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Sturrock Panel

Regarding...

>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
>To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Sturrock Panel
>Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 10:42:24 -0400

Greg wrote:

>>Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 23:58:50 -0400
>>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Sturrock Panel
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>Regarding...

>>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Sturrock Panel
>>>Date: Sun, 05 Jul 98 09:54:18 PDT

>>Jerry wrote:

>>>The Sturrock panel got to listen to some of the best evidence from
>>>some of the best UFO investigators and researchers alive today.

>>As you appreciate, that's a subjective opinion, especially on
>>what constitutes 'best evidence'.

>>However, if this was a 'best shot', isn't it a damning
>>indictment of the 'extraterrestrial hypothesis' when Prof.
>>Sturrock writes:

>>"Concerning the case material presented by the investigators,
>>the panel concluded that a few reported incidents may have
>>involved rare but significant phenomena such as electrical
>>activity, but there was no convincing evidence pointing to
>>unknown physical processes or to the involvement of
>>extraterrestrial intelligence".


>[I've also posted this to the Project 1947 list (Greg)]

[Likewise - James]


>James,

>I suspect you've only read media accounts of the Sturrock panel, and
>haven't read the complete report.


Greg,

It wasn't a rhetorical question expressing a belief. It was, as
I've said on similar points, simply a straightforward question.

No 'hidden agenda', nothing up my sleeve. ;)

I have read the complete report and even before raising this
question had written to the panel members on some issues arising
from same, Prof. Sturrock being one of those who replied.

As an aside, on whether the 'best evidence' was heard, Francois
Louange, comments:

"The cases chosen by UFO specialists were not necessarily the
best possible ones (this could be a long debate...) but nobody
could consider that a reasonable proof of violation of laws of
Physics or even stranger explanations came out at Pocantico
although enough elements were there to raise some scientific
interest".

As he says, that's a lengthy debate and perhaps best left as an
aside.


>You may draw any conclusions you like, but the scientists on the
>panel don't agree with you.

I hadn't actually formed any conclusions, merely interested in
what any agreed conclusions might be.

Your response, that from Steven Kaeser:

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Sturrock Panel
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 08:57:26 -0400

and John White:

From: John White <mjawhite@digitaldune.net>
To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Sturrock Panel
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 07:01:15 -0700

and any others I haven't acknowledged were appreciated and noted.

Welcome contributions to the discussion, they express
alternative views of the 'Sturrock panel' report and mercifully
prove this is possible without defending intransigent dogma and
in Jerry Clark's case, which I regret it's necessary to comment
on, imploding at a mere perceived insinuation the
'extraterrestrial hypothesis' is being fundamentally challenged.

The 'Sturrock panel' report does require careful reading, for
example, Mark Cashman and Bruce Maccabee have highlighted
apparent paradoxes, i.e.:

Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Sturrock Panel
From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 23:25:46 -0400
To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

Sturrock's panel summary seems contradictory. On the one hand,
they conclude that

"It may be valuable to carefully evaluate UFO reports to extract
information about unusual phenomena currently unknown to
science."

but then

"The review panel was not convinced that any of the evidence
involved currently unknown physical processes or pointed to the
involvement of an extraterrestrial intelligence."

It is difficult to understand how they came to the first
conclusion in light of the second.
[End]


Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 15:40:53 -0400
From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Subject: UFO UpDate: P-1947: The Sturrock Panel: The Next Step
To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

The claim that there is no "definitive information that will
settle the UFO problem once and for all" may be correct.
However, more basic claim that they panel had...no evidence of
anything truly unusual or "physics breaking"....is not accepted
as a fact by the UFO community (otherwise there probably would
be no such "community") and an important response to the panel
would be to lean why the panel members essentially claimed that
everything could be explained (no unconventional physics) while
admitting that some sightings were"difficult to explain." What
new but not ET/Other Intelligences (OI) related phenomena might
be invoked to explain the unexplainable? Or did the panel catch
itself in a "paradox" (all cases are basically a result of known
natural or manmade phenomena and we think we know about all
natural phenomena that could be related to sightings such as
there, but there are some cases which we can't explain and
therefore must involve unknown natural phenomena.)
[End]



>From Eshelman's summary of the panel's work and conclusions:

[...]

>"The panel concluded that further analysis of the evidence
>presented at the workshop is unlikely to elucidate the cause or
>causes of the reports. However, the panel considers that new
>data, scientifically acquired and analyzed (especially of well
>documented, recurrent events), could yield useful information.
>In this case, physical scientists would have an opportunity to
>contribute to the resolution of the UFO problem."

I had asked Prof. Von Eshleman [correct spelling] how the
panel's recommendations might be implemented and how this might
be achieved against a background where the 'UFO phenomena'
incorporates elements that were perhaps detrimental to any
perceived scientific credibility.

He wrote:

"The extremes of the UFO reports and the adamant ridicule by
much of the scientific community irreconcilably stands. However,
I believe that there is a middle ground where it is possible to
conclude something sensible about the subject, and that this
could possibly represent progress".


>Note this phrase: "further analysis of the evidence presented at
>the workshop." In other words, a certain limited amount of data
>was presented at the workshop, from which preliminary
>conclusions were drawn. One conclusion was in the phrase you've
>quotated ad nauseum: "The review panel was not convinced that
>any of the evidence involved currently unknown physical
>processes or pointed to the involvement of an extraterrestrial
>intelligence."

>That refers only to the evidence presented to the workshop. The
>panel concluded -- precisely in the spirit of Sturrock's
>introduction -- that much more study is needed, because nothing
>more can be determined from the evidence presented at the
>workshop. Only after far more study of much more data can any
>conclusions be drawn -- and "rival hypotheses" be evaluated.

Which data merits further study?

Certainly not the 'best evidence' presented to the panel.


The press release summarises:

"Further analysis of the evidence presented to the panel is
unlikely to shed added light on the causes underlying the
reports, the scientists said. Most current UFO investigations
lack the level of rigor required by the scientific community,
despite the initiative and dedication of the investigators
involved. But new data, scientifically acquired and analyzed,
could yield useful information and advance our understanding of
the UFO problem, the panel said".

Eshleman's conclusion, echoed in the panel's, appears to imply
that only _new data_, which has been "scientifically acquired
and analyzed" might yield information to advance understanding.

It's stated that current investigations, despite the best
intentions, do _not_ meet the criteria for scientific
evaluation.

One interpretation and certainly my own until I see evidence to
the contrary, is that consequently the panel's report does not
support either further investigation of the 'best evidence'
presented, that fact beyond any dispute, or any other historical
data.

Perhaps this latter point should first be clarified before any
determination on the panel's report.


>Note also the following, from Sturrock's recommendations for
>implementation of the panel's findings:

[...]

>Note this phrase: ""It is quite impossible to predict what might
>emerge from research into this area."

>The ETH is not excluded.

Noting I never suggested it had been, a statement to the effect
that it is impossible to predict the outcome of any relevant
research, isn't supportive of the ETH.

Any suggestions otherwise would be 'grasping at straws'.


In summary, the 'Sturrock panel' report does not appear to
support the ETH in any way and is a proverbial 'double edged
sword', on the basis that it's apparent recommendations for
future 'scientific' progress', would effectively sever any links
with previous 'unscientific' data.


That's maybe not the intended implication and I have asked some
of the panel members if they might clarify this important issue.

So far, only Prof. Sturrock has replied and states we should
"refer to the panel summary".


Further 'insight', would I'm sure be desirable and we can
perhaps then see the 'Sturrock panel' report in it's true
perspective.

Which was all I had ever set to accomplish.


James.
E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com






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   Jul > Jul 27

                 (Skyopen) USGS Live Volcano Cam Catches UFO

From: gerry <ed@farshore.force9.co.uk>
Date: Sunday, July 26, 1998 5:35 PM
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 10:38:40 -0400
Subject: (Skyopen) USGS Live Volcano Cam Catches UFO


If you haven't seen it already, I recommend a visit to Jeff
Rense's Sightings website in order to view the USGS Live Volcano
Cam photo which apparently depicts a disc-shaped aerial object
clearly visible just left of Mount St Helens. The capture took
place on July 24 at 12:06:11, according to frame details.

The URL required is as follows:

http://www.sightings.com/ufo/sthelufo.htm

Very intriguing -- any guesses?  Canada Geese are out!

Gerry=AC)
Far Shores
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"In the end it is the mystery that lasts
                    and not the explanation."
                             --- Sacheverell Sitwell
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -





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                        Re: Philip Mantle 'Signs-off'

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 07:56:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 10:54:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Philip Mantle 'Signs-off'

>Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 04:49:20 +0000
>From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philip Mantle 'Signs-off'

>> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 20:32:01 +0200
>> From: Bruno Mancusi <Bruno.Mancusi@com.mcnet.ch>
>> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Philip Mantle 'Signs-off'/Santilli's footage

>> >Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:56:41 +0000
>> >From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
>> >To: updates@globalserve.net
>> >Subject: Signing Off

>> >Dear Friends and Colleagues,

>> >I have to inform you that I am pulling out of ufology for an
>> >indefinate period. This has not been an easy decision to reach
>> >as I have been actively involved for nearly 20 years.

>> Philip,

><snip>

>> Now that you are going to resign from ufology, can you say us at
>> last what was your real involvement in this "Roswell autopsy"
>> story? Why have you accepted to help Ray Santilli to put in
>> touch with the ufological milieu? Have you received money from
>> him? How much?

>> I think that many list members would be interested in your
>> response.

>Dear Bruno,

>My reason for becoming involved with Santilli and his film was
>simply to try and get to the bottom of it. I have not yet managed
>to do this but I have proven, to my satisfaction at least, the
>the tent footage is a hoax. Whether or not the rest of the film
>proves to be fake or genuine I honestly don't know.

>As for payment from Santilli I have been asked this question a
>thousand times. The answer is quite simply no. Santilli paid me a
>small fee to work as a consultant on his video release of the
>film, which I did and even appeared in. At no time did Santilli
>or anyone else for that matter ever offer me any money for
>anything else.

<snip>

I have not "signed off" but have, for the time being, given up
in disgust on the Santilli film.

Ray says he wants the truth out, but he has refused (or perhaps
not been allowed) to provide anything real to work with.  It would
only take a small sample of the original film to establish if it
is really the type of film it has been claimed to be.  In the
absence of this, nothing can be proved.

Also, if the cameraman really exists, Ray should be very concerned
that he will die before giving a full deposition about his story.

The cameraman was supposed to phone me at the beginning of this
year so that we could chat, get to know one-another, and perhaps
make plans for a detailed interview.  That call never came.

Bob








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                          Philip Mantle "Rewarded"

From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 03:22:29 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 10:46:25 -0400
Subject: Philip Mantle "Rewarded"

Desr Friends and Colleagues,

First of all I'd like to thank everyone for their kind comments
concerning my decision to withdraw indefiniately from ufology.
I've received many kind words from people all arouind the world,
most of whom I've never met.

Today, my decision to with draw from ufology has been greatly
rewarded as my eldest daughter Sarah (age 9) received
confirmation that she has been accepted for a scholarship with
the Royal Ballet. To say that we are proud of her is indeed an
understatement.

This is a big commitment for all of us but one I am looking
forward to.

I dare say I'll occasionally dip my toes into the ufological
whirlpool from time to time but I simply do not have the time to
commit to it like I have done so for many years.

All the best,


Philip.








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                              Kal! You're here!

From: Keith Woodard <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 07:39:36 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 10:59:29 -0400
Subject: Kal! You're here!


KAL!  What about that SIGHTING you were going to...describe...

Rats.  Missed him again.







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                             Re: Meier Pictures

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 07:41:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 10:51:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Meier Pictures


>From: Kal K. Korff <TotlResrch@aol.com>
>Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 17:01:51 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Meier Pictures

>Dear Esteemed Colleagues: The Duke of Mendoza, Don Ecker, Bruce
>Maccabee, and yes, even (shudder!) Jim Deardorff, who has yet to
>set us straight on this matter!!

<snip>

>According to Meier and those dumb enough to _still_ believe in
>him, Meier has a small pond surrounded by various one arm made
>(Meier made) "crystals" of various bright colors. These
>crystals, according to Meier's people at his cult, are aligned
>and tuned into the right vibrational frequencies so as to
>protect Meier from harm, danger and people with bad intentions,
>such as those that want to expose the truth about him, etc.

>We may safely assume that Meier's much-vaunted Pleiadian
>Protection System was malfuntioning all seven times I was
>secretly on his property, and as of just a few months ago,
>actually successfully went undercover, secretly in Meier's own
>house! Boy, what a pad!

>The man is hardly poor, let alone humble! But the people around
>him dress in cheap, ragged-out hippie type clothes. Ahhh, this
>way more money and resources for their Master, Mr. Meier!

<snip>

Kal,

Why is it that when anyone mentions Billy Meier the phrase
"one armed bandit" pops, unbidden, into my psyche???

Bob






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              London, Ohio Correctional Institute - Unravelled

From: Kenny Young <task@fuse.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 12:54:57 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:40:06 -0400
Subject: London, Ohio Correctional Institute - Unravelled

LoCI UPDATE:

In April and May of 1998, Ohio MUFON Director Bill Jones and
associate researcher Don Weatherby conducted an investigation of
UFO sightings thought to have been reported near the vicinity of
the London, Ohio Correctional Institute. Their LoCI
investigations were based upon fleeting and incomplete
information conveyed over two separate radio stations from
listeners who had 'heard the reports.'

Jones and Weatherby are to be commended for conducting a
thorough and comprehensive 3-week effort to unravel this
situation, which included interviews with police and prison
officials, plus performing a house- to-house check with
residents in the area. They determined that no tangible
information could be found to support such claims.

The source for this mysterious 'LoCI' information which sparked
their investigations may be London, Ohio researcher Peggy
Tillman.

This determination was made from an article posted on the UFO
UpDates List moderated by Errol Bruce Knapp:



Sun 05-03-98 02:47 pm

Alien Spacecraft Using Prison As 'Gas Station'

LONDON, Ohio (Wireless Flash) - UFO researchers think a prison
in London, Ohio, is being used as a sort of "service station"
for alien spaceships.

Researcher Peggy Tillman says the London Correctional
Institution is regularly visited by alien craft which hover over
the site for about five minutes, perhaps refueling before
jetting away. The prison is located on Route 665, a highway that
locals refer to as the "UFO Highway."

Tillman also reports that many of the eyewitnesses who have seen
spacecraft "fuel up" over the prison have later spotted a
Bigfoot in the area. Could the hairy creature be some type of
paranormal pump attendant?

However, not everyone believes the prison is an extraterrestrial
Exxon. London Correctional Institution spokesman Don Rayna says
he=92s unaware of any alien visits to the
prison.

Copyright =A9 1998 Wireless Flash News Service. All rights
reserved.



The date for this article was May 3, 1998. Evidently, Don
Weatherby informed that his friend had heard a 'news flash' from
an Indianapolis radio station on April 29, 1998, four days
before this was posted on the internet.

During a telephone chat with Peggy Tillman on Saturday, May 25,
I learned that it was HER who had performed a radio interview...
probably on April 29... in which she discussed a UFO sighting
near LoCI.

Tillman said that she is in routine contact with a man from
California named MOORE (sp?) who puts articles from her on
WIRELESS NEWS SERVICE which carries stories 'from the fringe.'
Tillman states that she gets calls from all around, including
'the Congo,' and she frequently performs radio interviews as a
result.

On the particular April 29 interview, which she said may have
been heard in Columbus and Indianapolis, she thought she 'may
have talked about the LoCI UFOs.'

Tillman said that the UFOs use LoCI to 'jump start' their
vehicles, and it is a good refueling point. She said that sparks
are frequently seen to emerge from the ground and make contact
with the "flying saucers", giving them extra power. Although she
doesn't know of any specific sightings in April, she worked from
'memory' to recall a number of previous reports from the area.
She, herself, claims to have seen a Triangular UFO in South
Charleston, which was a bright, intense light.

"I wondered what was holding it up?" she said.

Strangely, Peggy Tillman did not document the UFO sighting which
she claims to have been a witness to. However, the UFO
researcher mused that the UFO she saw around 10:00 p.m. that
undetermined evening was in the direction of the LoCI facility.

From this new finding, we can determine that there is probably
little basis for reasoning that a UFO sighting was widely
reported in or near the LoCI facility on Tuesday, April 28,
1998, as previously suspected. This unfortunate affair seems to
have been generated by comments from Tillman during her radio
interview, in which she surmised various theories and recounted
an undocumented personal sighting she claims to have had on some
undetermined date.

Following the 'WIRELESS NEWS SERVICE' report, Peggy Tillman was
contacted on May 4 by the Comedy Channel, whose producers
dispatched a television crew to London, Ohio to create a
humorous satire of the London, Ohio reports, spoofing the
situation with derision and tomfoolery. The comical expose of
the London, Ohio reports belittled Tillman and her research
associate Don Keating, a Bigfoot investigator from
Newcomerstown, Ohio. The Comedy Channel program aired at 7:00
p.m. on May 21.

For information concerning what was thought to be a UFO
situation at LoCI and the follow up investigations, see:
http://members.tripod.com/~task_2/LoCI.htm

Filed: July 27, 1998 KENNY YOUNG -- UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/task/






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                         Re: Lake Ontario 'Streaks'

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:35:58 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:59:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Lake Ontario 'Streaks'

> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 17:45:44 -0400
> From: Jennifer Jarvis <fierycelt@full-moon.com>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Lake Ontario "Streaks"

> Hi Errol and List.

> We were out again on Friday and Saturday nights, down in Niagara
> on the Lake. Both nights we observed a "streak" in the northwest
> sky. The Friday night event changed course before it disappeared
> below the horizon.

> Did anyone else notice these events?

> I have posted  6 frames from the Friday night video on ORBWATCH.
> The link can be found on the New Site Updates Menu of the Home
> Page, dated 26th July.

Hi Jennifer,

For a while you had been reporting small distant lights or
objects in the sky over Lake Ontario from a location near
Toronto looking south towards Niagara on the Lake.  Now you are
reporting more sightings from your new location in Niagara on
the Lake looking north (the opposite direction) towards Toronto.

On Friday, after I checked your updated web site which contained
some of your latest observations, I was tempted to go out this
weekend and scan the sky for myself to see if I too could see
such distant lights and objects.  Although I considered
observing from the Lakeview generating plant west of Toronto or
from Niagara on the Lake (and possibly bump into you and your
fellow observes), I concluded that my single observations would
not lead to a solution of these unknown lights or objects over
Lake Ontariou unless my observing activities were coordinated
with you or others.  Using cell phones and compasses, observers
from two or more distant observing sites would try and see the
same objects.  If one group same a light or object in one
direction and the other group saw it too but in a different
direction, we could then easily calculate its size and exact
location over the lake.  We may then even consider taking a boat
and observing from this exact location on the lake too (this
could be done frequently and cheaply now that there is a new
hydrofoil boat that makes frequent trips to and from Toronto and
Niagara on the Lake).

If only one group saw the light or object while another did not,
then it would suggest that it was much closer to the first group
and would be something very small (such as sunlight shining off
the body of one of the many seagulls flying low over Lake
Ontario).

Would you and your fellow observers like to try this?  We may
even find the answers to what these things really are.  Isn't
this the reason why you are out there observing and recording
these things in the first place?

Nick Balaskas









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                From Jerry Black Re: A Response From Whitley

From: Kenny Young <task@fuse.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:57:01 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 15:23:25 -0400
Subject: From Jerry Black Re: A Response From Whitley

>From: Kathleen Anderson <KAnder6444@aol.com>
>Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 21:39:38 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: A response from Whitley Streiber

>>From: Black's Hole
>>Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 09:57:31 -0400
>>Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 09:57:31 -0400
>>Subject: An Open Message To Whitley Strieber - Jerry Black

>>http://members.xoom.com/ufobarb/jb04.html

>Response from Whitley to Mr. Black

>>From Whitley Strieber

>First, the UFO video that I was referring to still seems
>perfectly authentic to me. If the fact that it was shot 40 miles
>from Gulf Breeze somehow turns it into a hoax, I would be
>fascinated to know why.

>Second, I have had one telephone conversation with Ed Walters in
>ten years. I have never met him personally, to my knowledge.
>However, I do believe that his pictures were authentic because I
>know another witness, a retired Marine fighter pilot whom I would
>trust with my life, who saw the object a couple of days before
>Walters first observed it.

>Third, I am sick of people challenging me in stupid ways. The two
>lie detector tests that I had control over are fully disclosed in
>my earlier books, and have been discussed by Ed Conroy in his
>book Report on Communion. The other two were administered on
>behalf of media organizations. One, administered on behalf of the
>BBC, was the reason that I was allowed to discuss Communion on
>BBC programming in 1988. Had I failed it, they did not plan to
>allow me on. The second was a voice-stress test administered
>without my knowledge and discussed on a television program called
>Contact.

>All of this information is readily accessible to any competent
>researcher. The fact that Mr. Black appears to know none of it, I
>believe, speaks for itself.

>Whitley Strieber

Mr. Jerry Black requested that the following message kindly be
forwarded to UFO UpDates, regarding a July 9 post from Kathleen
Anderson. The message was a reply from Whitley Striber to Mr.
Black. Below are Black's comments:

"I will be making a MAJOR RESPONSE to Whitley Striebers
remarks within 21 to 30 days."

Jerry Black

6276 Taylor Pike
Blanchester, OH 45107
513-625-2613






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                   'Alien Abductions' by Peter Brookesmith

From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:03:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:03:52 -0400
Subject: 'Alien Abductions' by Peter Brookesmith

I'm in the throes of reading the Duke of Mendoza's latest
tome. Since most of those involved in the pages of
'Alien Abductions' are subscribers and contributors to
UpDates I want to pass along the following to the List:


Dust Jacket Notes from:

'Alien Abductions'
by Peter Brookesmith

Copyright =A9 1998 Brown Packaging Books Ltd

ISBN 0-7137-2702-0

First published in the UK by Blandford
an imprint of Cassell plc.

Wellington House,
125 Strand,
London, WC2R 0BB



Since the late 1980s more and more people in the Americas and in
Europe have come to believe they have been forcibly abducted by
alien beings, taken on board their spacecraft, and subjected to
a range of distressing indignities.

The controversy over these extraordinary claims has been fierce.
Believers and sceptics share common ground only in ceding few
points and giving little quarter to their opponents.

While the commentators argue, Many who have undergone abductions
are angry and bewildered. They have been shaken to the core by
their experiences, and want explanations and reassurance. While
many abductees support abduction researchers wholeheartedly, a
significant number are disenchanted with them. Both groups
despair at the dismissal and scorn of hardline sceptics.

This book presents an overview of both sides of the abduction
argument, but it goes much further than that. A number of
researchers have now recognized that something truly strange
lies at the heart of the abduction experience, even though it
may not involve actual alien beings. A few have realized that,
regardless of whether abductions are really happening, the
stories told by abductees and the apparent activities of the
aliens have achieved the status of a modern mythology. Alien
Abductions ruthlessly exposes the assumptions and delusions of
both the promoters of the abduction phenomenon and their most
intolerant critics. At the same time, the author gives a
sympathetic hearing to the witnesses themselves, their sense of
betrayal and confusion, and the striking variety of their
experiences.

This book includes previously unpublished artworks and
photographs - some from private collections, others commissioned
especially for this book - as well as exclusive interviews with
abductees, offering a thought-provoking perspective on the
abduction experience. Believers and sceptics alike will find
this an unforgettable expos=E9 of alien encounters.



'The being abruptly twisted to its left while raising up and
moving forward in one fluid motion. In shocked amazement I
realized that it had done all of this through the glass, the
bed, as well as the steel body of the van itself - as if they
were of water. It gently but firmly gripped my upper arms, its
face mere inches from my own. Huge, glossy black eyes that
filled close to a third of its face, stared into mine...'

- Clarke Hathaway


'...Above my neighbour's house, there's the UFO, with this red
light on top going round like on an ice cream truck. Then two of
the little guys come floating over towards me, and each one very
gently takes an arm, and they turn me. We get hit with, like, a
theatre spotlight. I take two steps forward and =96 airborne.
We're floating up, and I'm getting off on it. I'm enjoying it.
It's like being Peter Pan or something.'

- John Velez


'I can remember being first implanted in 1954. I remember the
thin rod pushed so hard up my nostril to lodge the little thing
close to my optic nerves. With my alien friend Sphere's help in
1961, I was able to reconfigure the access to five implants in
my body to my own frequencies and for my own uses. I could
literally read minds with them.'

- 'Kathy'


'I try very hard not to have guilt feelings about the way stupid
people have misinterpreted my experience. I try to get across to
people that they should stay away from hypnosis. You don't want
anybody foolin' round with your brain. I mean, you have problems
enough to live with yourself, without other people making their
contribution. I can do hypnosis, and I can give you an abduction
in 20 minutes.'

- Betty Hill


Peter Brookesmith is a writer and publishing consultant. He
began his publishing career as an editor and staff writer for
the Nuffield Foundation Science Teaching Project, then moved
into the world of magazines and books.

In the 1980s he masterminded 'The Unexplained' (published in the
USA as Mysteries of Mind, Space & Time), a 3000-page
multi-volume encyclopedia of the paranormal, was a full-time
consultant to the Reader's Digest series 'Quest for the Unknown'
in the 1990s, and authored the highly acclaimed - and
best-selling - 'UFO: The Complete Sightings Catalogue' and
'UFO: The Government Files' published on the Blandford imprint
of Cassell.

His most recent books, also published by Cassell, include 'The
Fighting Handgun' (with Richard Law), 'Future Plagues'
(published in the USA as Biohazard), and 'UFOs and Ufology: The
First 50 Years' (with Paul Devereux). He regularly contributes
articles on ufology to Fortean Times and Magonia, and has been
described as 'the most charming of the UFO sceptics'.

<<<>>>

ebk





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               Re: (Skyopen) USGS Live Volcano Cam Catches UFO

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 15:00:35 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:23:17 -0400
Subject: Re: (Skyopen) USGS Live Volcano Cam Catches UFO


> From: gerry <ed@farshore.force9.co.uk>
> To: Skywatch International <skypost@unix.ltlb.com>
> Date: Sunday, July 26, 1998 5:35 PM
> Subject: UFO Live Cam Shot

> If you haven't seen it already, I recommend a visit to Jeff
> Rense's Sightings website in order to view the USGS Live Volcano
> Cam photo which apparently depicts a disc-shaped aerial object
> clearly visible just left of Mount St Helens. The capture took
> place on July 24 at 12:06:11, according to frame details.

> The URL required is as follows:

> http://www.sightings.com/ufo/sthelufo.htm

> Very intriguing -- any guesses?  Canada Geese are out!

This is an intriguing photo. If an unattended, autmatic camera
really did capture a flying disc....need I say more?

There's only one catch. Jeff Rense doesn't say on the website
whether anyone checked to make sure the photo is genuine. I've
e-mailed USGS to ask. Luckily the Sightings site includes the
date and exact time of the photo, so if USGS archives the volcano
cam, they can easily compare the Rense photo (which I enclosed)
to what their cameras recorded.

Greg Sandow








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               Re: (Skyopen) USGS Live Volcano Cam Catches UFO

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:01:38 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:27:51 -0400
Subject: Re: (Skyopen) USGS Live Volcano Cam Catches UFO


>From: gerry <ed@farshore.force9.co.uk>
>To: Skywatch International <skypost@unix.ltlb.com>
>Date: Sunday, July 26, 1998 5:35 PM
>Subject: UFO Live Cam Shot

>If you haven't seen it already, I recommend a visit to Jeff
>Rense's Sightings website in order to view the USGS Live Volcano
>Cam photo which apparently depicts a disc-shaped aerial object
>clearly visible just left of Mount St Helens. The capture took
>place on July 24 at 12:06:11, according to frame details.
>
>The URL required is as follows:
>
>http://www.sightings.com/ufo/sthelufo.htm
>
>Very intriguing -- any guesses?  Canada Geese are out!
>
>Gerry=AC)
>Far Shores

Is it possible to obtain a copy of this image from another source for
verification.  It's far too easy to modify computer images to use them as
evidence, and the veracity of this image needs to be confirmed.

Steve







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                 Summer 1947 Blackheath Common, South London

From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 01:58:25 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 10:02:36 -0400
Subject: Summer 1947 Blackheath Common, South London


Sighting report from the BBC's UFO talking point. URL:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/talking_point/newsid_124000/124860.asp


Stig


*******


Thursday, July 2, 1998 Published at 12:12 GMT 13:12 UK


Talking Point


Are UFOs a sign of alien life? Your reaction


Votes so far:

Yes: 54%=BF No: 46%

<snip>


When I was 10 I remember my father telling me about how he and
my mother had seen a UFO in 1947. It had been a spinning silver
egg that had been floating in the sky above Blackheath Common,
south London. It had been a sunny day with clouds, it was early
afternoon, and the object could be seen by the naked eye. My
father got out his binoculars and took a look and what he saw
confirmed the shape and spinning nature of the object. Now at
the time I remembered the story but didn't really think about
it. A few years later he recounted the story. I was 13 or 14 and
this time I was very interested. But I thought he was joking.
However what leads credence to the story is the fact that my
mother was there as well and when I asked her she said that was
exactly what had happened and that my father had given her the
binoculars to see for herself. My mother wasn't deadly serious
about it but rather matter of fact.

What is particularly interesting about this story, in addition
to the partial corroboration (my mother would not be considered
an independent witness I imagine) was that the egg, or whatever
it was, hung in the air until it was occluded by a cloud (not a
big one in my father's memory) but a minute or so later when the
cloud had passed it had gone. My father was an RAF trained
navigator. He had just been demobbed and would have recognised
it as such if it had been a meteorological or barrage balloon
etc. I assume that my father practically knew the shape and
characteristics of practically everything flying at that time as
he had been on Dacota7s right up to that year. The egg's
spinning nature? My father's later assertion was that it must
have been a UFO in the pure definition of the sense. Actually I
don't know if UFO mania had hit England in summer 1947. I
suspect if it had, my father might have been in some way caught
up in the hysteria. That's something I will never know as he
died over a decade ago.

I never paid this that much attention however and had not been
particularly interested in UFO phenomena until May 1998 when I
saw something I can only describe as a UFO myself; a purple
glowing triangle moving very rapidly across the lower third of
the sky one early evening, again in south London. I am not going
to go into this story as I probably saw a stealth bomber or
something, but all I can say was that it looked to be about 10
or 15 kilometers away, was huge, silent, with bright glowing
lights at each of the points and then suddenly stopped, hovered
and disappeared. I got the feeling that its real behaviour was
such that it couldn't have been a standard aircraft. I was
completely fazed by the whole experience and, well, I cannot
help but think that what I saw and what my father and mother
apparently saw need rational explanation.

What finally unsettles me is that neither what I saw or my
parents saw fits into the loony saucer, cigar, or whatever
sightings which are supposed to be what you see when you see a
UFO. But as far as my eyes and first and second hand experiences
guide me I cannot but help think that visitors come to Earth to
check us out.


Paul Kallender, Ex-UK now in Japan

<snip>






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                     Re: UFO News Items From The Fringe

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 20:07:01 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 10:09:27 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO News Items From The Fringe

> From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 03:30:40 +0200
> Subject: UFO News Items From The Fringe

> Thanks to Wireless Flash News Service I am able to bring you a
> few news items from the fringe. Except for the last one which is
> rather sweet, they are all pretty far out, but hopefully will
> act as a deterrent.

<snip>

> This one is from June 2. URL

> http://www.flashnews.com/news/4clk0ch0.htm
>

<snip>

> Out-Of-This-World Jewelry Made From Crashed Ufo Fragments

> RED ROCK, N. M. (Wireless Flash) A New Mexico gemologist is
> selling jewelry made out of what he claims are fragments from a
> crashed UFO.

> Jeweler David Shoemaker owns about two-and-a-half pounds of a
> strange glass-like material that he says was salvaged from an
> alien spacecraft that crashed near Red Rock, New Mexico, more
> than 50 years ago.

> The extraterrestrial gems are transparent green and contain tiny
> gray spheres resembling exploding galaxies. It was originally
> believed the material was from a meteorite, but Shoemaker claims
> an analysis of the fragments reveals that they contain 54
> different minerals and elements - including 3 minerals never
> found on Earth.

> Shoemaker is currently selling raw chunks of the UFO fragments
> for $100 or more a gram and necklaces for $500 or more.

> CONTACT: David Shoemaker, **** (serious inquiries only); Red
> Rock, NM; (505) ***-****

> Copyright =A9 1998 Wireless Flash News Service. All rights reserved.

<snip>

Hi everyone,

Thanks to a contact in the U.S., I was sent a fair sized chunk
of this alleged UFO debris (and I wasn't even charged a penny!)
along with a copy of the initial scientific test results which
look very impressive. Later this summer, fellow colleagues at
York University (Toronto) will have their own scientific test
results ready regarding David Shoemaker's UFO debris which will
be made available by my U.S. contact to everyone.

For accuracy, the alleged 1947 UFO crash did not happen anywhere
near Red Rock (or even Roswell), New Mexico but in another more
distant U.S. state.

Nick Balaskas









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   Jul > Jul 28

               Re: (Skyopen) USGS Live Volcano Cam Catches UFO

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 22:35:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 10:11:51 -0400
Subject: Re: (Skyopen) USGS Live Volcano Cam Catches UFO

> From: gerry <ed@farshore.force9.co.uk>
> To: Skywatch International <skypost@unix.ltlb.com>
> Date: Sunday, July 26, 1998 5:35 PM
> Subject: UFO Live Cam Shot

> If you haven't seen it already, I recommend a visit to Jeff
> Rense's Sightings website in order to view the USGS Live Volcano
> Cam photo which apparently depicts a disc-shaped aerial object

A quick look at the JPEG with Photoshop shows an unusually heavy
amount of artifacting around the object. This artifacting is higher
than that near any other dark / light boundaries in the image,
strongly suggesting a fake.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/library.htm
------







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                 Re: 'Alien Abductions' by Peter Brookesmith

From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 98 19:20:41 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 10:10:17 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Alien Abductions' by Peter Brookesmith


>From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto
>Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:03:52 -0400
>Subject: 'Alien Abductions' by Peter Brookesmith

>I'm in the throes of reading the Duke of Mendoza's latest
>tome. Since most of those involved in the pages of
>'Alien Abductions' are subscribers and contributors to
>UpDates I want to pass along the following to the List:


>Dust Jacket Notes from:

>'Alien Abductions'
>by Peter Brookesmith

>Copyright 1998 Brown Packaging Books Ltd

<snip>

>described as 'the most charming of the UFO sceptics'.


>'Alien Abductions'
>by Peter Brookesmith

>Copyright 1998 Brown Packaging Books Ltd

<snip>

Aw, the guy can't handle good Texas brew, or Red Dog or Bud. He
settled for wine coolers when he came here to visit. I'll say one
thing though, he is indeed charming. Even if he does come equipped
with a Zip drive & no battery.

Never sell Her Majesties' skeptic short, I say,... sell him at a
discount. :)


| Mathological |
|         |    |
|  ~Pat~ /    /
|  |    /|\  /
| /    | | |/
| |\        \
| | |        |
| | |        ?
| |\|\
| | | |
|\|\|\|\
| | | | |\
| | | | | |







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                      Close Encounter With Comet Wild-2

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 18:21:40 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:57:44 -0400
Subject: Close Encounter With Comet Wild-2


Hi everyone,

Last year UFO UpDates subscribers had an opportunity to have
their signature or personal handwritten message scanned onto a
CD-ROM which was placed in the European Space Agency probe
Huygens (part of NASA's Cassini spacecraft) that will land on
Saturn's largest moon, Titan. A few months ago the same
subscribers were told of how they could have their name sent to
the south polar region of Mars aboard NASA's Mars Polar Lander.
If you missed out on these two chances, you can now send your
name to a comet (no, not Hale-Bopp) aboard NASA's Stardust
spacecraft. Go to the following web site to enter your name:

http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/microchip/signup.html

The NASA Stardust mission will collect some of the particles
ejected from Comet Wild-2 and return them back to Earth in 2006,
along with the microchip containing your name.

Although scientists may have already examined what may be comet
particles from Tunguska in Siberia or from debris embedded in
spacecraft which have returned to Earth, this should be the
first time we get actual fragments from a comet, objects which
originate from the outer most regions of our solar system beyond
Pluto. Of course, Earth may still have a actual close encounter
with a comet (like Jupiter had a few years ago) similar to that
in the movies "Deep Impact" or "Armageddon" in the next few
years. If this happens, NASA will not likely send Stardust to
Comet Wild-2, with your name on it, but may still launch another
comet mission with astronaut heros Robert Duvall and/or Bruce
Willis aboard. ;o)

Nick Balaskas









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                       Re: Missouri UFO Crash In 1865?

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 19:39:21 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:59:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Missouri UFO Crash In 1865?

> From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk.>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 02:44:50 +0200
> Subject: Missouri UFO Crash In 1865?

> From: Wireless Flash News Service June 17.

> URL: http://www.flashnews.com/news/8plp2pr4.htm

> Stig

<snip>

> A UFO researcher claims new evidence suggests that an alien spacecraft
> crashed in the Cadotte Pass area of Missouri sometime in September of
> 1865.

> Researcher W. Ritchie Benedict says the man discovering the crashed UFO
> was a fur trapper named James Lumley, who told newspapers he saw a
> "bright, luminous body in the heavens" suddenly burst into flames in
> the middle of the night.

> The day after the sighting, Lumley reportedly discovered a bizarre
> giant stone-like object about two miles from his camp that was
> decorated with weird hieroglyphics

<snip>

According to CSETI's long list of alleged UFO crashes, they
seem to have used what is actually written in the The Cincinnati
Commercial newspaper of October 30, 1865 to conclude that the
UFO crash actually took place one year earlier.

Briefly quoting from the article, we are told "Mr. Lumley states
that about the middle of LAST September, he was engaged in
trapping in the mountains, about seventy-five or one hundred
miles above..." and "It is evident that the stone which he
discovered was a fragment of the meteor which was visible in this
section in September LAST."  Does the word LAST (my capitals) in
the quotes above imply that the year was 1865 or one year earlier?

The second quote is also of special interest since it suggests
that this UFO crash was a multiple witnessed event, similar in
many ways (seen in sky over wide area, hieroglyphics on fallen
object, etc.) to the Kecksburg UFO crash a century later.

Nick Balaskas








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                            Re: Kal! You're here!

From: TotlResrch@aol.com
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 00:04:07 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 10:20:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Kal! You're here!

>From: Keith Woodard <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
>To: "UFO Updates" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Kal! You're here!
>Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 07:39:36 -0700

>KAL!  What about that SIGHTING you were going to...describe...

>Rats.  Missed him again.


Unless I am mistaken, I believe I posted the details of my
sighting back in May of 1997 -- last year!

Those who want to know its' details, can check the UFO UpDates
Archive for that month. If I find it sometime later this week I
can re-post it, but it is "findable" by checking the archive. At
least it was the last time I checked, several months ago.

Kal (Glad to be back from Europe doing sneaky things in
Switzerland, Germany, England, Austria, Lichtenstein, France,
Italy, Portugal and on the road to way too many places in the USA
-- all for the good of UFOlogy and Exposing those Hoaxsters!)
Korff

[Here's the post in question --ebk]:


From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff]
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 06:08:58 -0400 (EDT)
To: Updates@globalserve.net
Subject: Kal K. Korff's UFO Sighting - The DETAILS!

Recently, several of you have asked me about my own "UFO"
sighting which I mentioned having had many years ago. In
particular, Gary Alevy asked me for this information as well, so
I hope Mr. Alevy that this posting provides you with enough
information. If anyone has any more questions about my
encounter, please feel free to contact me, but it may take me a
few days to get back to you.

My Sighting of a "UFO"

On February 16, 1981, just after, ironically, I finished putting
the final touches on my original expose of the Eduard "Billy"
Meier hoax, I was on my way home with two friends of mine at the
time, Mr. and Mrs. Al and Barbara Reed.

The time was about 11:45PM and because of the tremendous amount
of work my original expose of the Meier case had taken the Reeds
and I to put together, the three of us were sick and tired of
the UFO subject and very much wanted a break from it. Since I
knew that my book would not be published and on the market until
May of that year, I looked forward to a few months respite from
the field of UFOlogy and its dreaded politics. I also knew that
exposing the Meier case as a fraud would not endear me to
certain individuals and destroy my then-friendship with Wendelle
Stevens.

At any rate, while driving home, the thee of us saw off to our
left in the sky at aproximately a 40 degree angle, what Mrs.
Reed called a "funny looking" airplane.

Immediately, Al and I both said at that same time "That's no
airplane" and yelled "pull over." This we did, and the three of
us got out of the car to observe the object.

The object I saw was a bright, red light with a definite
metallic or "spherical" surface reflection behind it. It was
about the angular size of the tip or head of a wooden stick
match held at arm's length. Its' altitude was above the horizon,
yet below the cloud cover and other air traffic. I observed it
on highway 237 in California (in the San Francisco Bay Area
region between the towns of Santa Clara and Milpitas) and it was
just hovering there with no motion or movement for as long as 4
minutes. The direction I observed the object was Northwest, and
the sky was pretty illuminated in the direction of the object
due to the its' location.

After observing an airplane (a regular jet airliner) pass above
and right by the object, (though well above it), after the plane
left the object it suddenly for a split second got momentarily
brighter and separated into TWO objects!

In observing this, it was as if a piece of it separated from
itself, and pulled AWAY from the primary object towards the
left. For a brief moment, there were TWO objects now (looking
much like a cell dividing into two under a microscope!) and this
second object was about half the size and half the brightness of
the primary object.

As the two "objects" separated from one another, the second
object flew away and within a few seconds literally DISAPPEARED
right in front of our eyes! It was as if it had "cloaked" and
dissolved, just like a Romulan or Klingon spaceship does in the
science fiction series Star Trek! We couldn't believe this.

After this second object dissolved out the larger, primary one
then started moving and headed straight East towards the
mountains of the Bay Area over the city of Milpitas and southern
Fremont.

Immediately, the three of us got into the car and sped very fast
(luckily there were no police with radar guns that night, as
usual) in order to try and follow the object. Lucky for us,
Highway 237 goes West to East, so we were able to eventually
catch up with the object. I never took my eyes off it up to this
point.

However, the object soon slowed down again and started heading
north. We were also coming to the end of highway 237 by this
time and then headed north on highway 880 (formerly known as the
Nimitz freeway) and caught up to the object once again. This
time, it had STOPPED and hovered in mid air, and we were
directly UNDER IT at this point and pulled over to the side of
the freeway where we got out of our car and the three of us
watched it where it hovered directly above our heads.

I tried flagging down some cars but in typical California style,
no one would stop. I then returned to observing the object. It
sat there motionless for a minute or so, and then executed 8
PERFECT tight circle maneuvers in succession before it stopped
once again and rose STRAIGHT UP above the cloud cover where we
lost it for good. The total sighting lasted about 11 minutes,
maybe 15, depending on whose wristwatch you believe.

In my years since this sighting, where i have become quite
familiar with almost everything flying and even have worked on
the "Star Wars" program and in particular remote controlled
drones, I have never seen anything like this and know of no
craft the U.S. has today that can explain what it saw. The
"cloaking" of the object (it would have still been visible to us
if it had merely tunred off its lights), the flight
characteristics and its "dividing into two pieces" still have me
baffled to this day.

The next night, i was channel surfing, and Dr. Richard F. Haines
and Dr. Andrew Grotowski were shown on the news out at night
looking for a "UFO" which divided into two pieces, was red in
color, and behaved the same way the object the Reeds and I saw.
Over the course of the next six weeks, there were more than 65
separate reports of this same object seen in both the day and
nighttime. The patterns of behavior were remarkably consistent:
after "separating" itself, the secondary object would "dissolve"
and the primary object would take off at a high rate of speed ,
stop and however, and the fly away.

Many UFO researchers from the Bay Area chapter of MUFON went out
to investigate these sightings and I did as well. I made a point
to investigate both the night and daytime reports, but of course
never told any of the witnesses I interviewed that I had seen
the thing as well. What was fascinating about this mini UFO
"wave" was the extreme consistency of reports.

Later, when I was granted a security clearance and assigned to
the Star Wars project, I did extensive searches for any
U.S.-made device that might account for what I saw. I never
found anything, for what it's worth.

Well, that's it for now...I will be happy to answer any
questions anyone might have. As I kept looking at the object, I
remember thinking "Wow, if this is REALLY from another planet,
then we (humanity) are indeed very insignificant in this grand
scale of things." I felt like an ant trying to comprehend
nuclear physics!!

Kal K. Korff





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   Jul > Jul 28

                   UFO*BC Updates- Sightings On The Radio

From: Bill Oliver <boliver@direct.ca>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 22:53:19 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 10:57:59 -0400
Subject: UFO*BC Updates- Sightings On The Radio

Check out the latest articles at UFO*BC.... http://www.ufobc.org
Listen to us on "Sightings On The Radio" Tuesday, July 28 at 7:30
pm Pacific Time for the latest BC reports  . . . . . Special
guest . . . Palmiro Campagna, author of 'The UFO Files, The
Canadian Connection Exposed'.

Sightings On The Radio . . . .http://www.sightings .com

[Ah, yes... Campagna. The man who maintains that Michalak saw
high in the air, and was permanently damaged by, AVRO Aero-cars
at Falcon Lake? Another UFO 'Expert'! Seeing 'The Truman Show'





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                            Re: Greek UFO Groups?

From: George Barkouris <apurimac@compulink.gr>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 12:02:31 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 11:06:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Greek UFO Groups?

> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:09:03 -0400
> From: Werner Walter <113236.1604@compuserve.com>
> Subject: Greek UFO-groups
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> Hi List-Members,

> Has anyone Smail-addresses for Greek UFO-groups for me?

> Werner

 Hello Werner,

as a member of the following, I suggest:

          -----------------------------------------------------
          HOGAR  Hellenico de Informacion e Investigacion Libre
          Hellenic House Of Liberal Investigation & Information
          -----------------------------------------------------

Direccion(Address): Ag. KONSTANTINOU 3, Pza OMONIA (Sq)
Tel-Fax: ++5200538
ADPO POSTAL (P.O.BOX):3210, ATENAS (Athens) 102 10, GRECIA (Greece)

and/or:

 George Barkouris
 Fokionos Negri, 5
 Athens 11257
 Greece
 tel: 8629643

 regards,

 George






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                           'Paradigm Clock' Re-set

From: Stephen G. Bassett <ParadigmRG@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 00:32:17 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 10:43:39 -0400
Subject: 'Paradigm Clock' Re-set

 P  R  G
Paradigm Research Group

***   FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE  ***

July 27, 1998 -- Washington, DC --  �The Paradigm Clock� has
been reset to 11:56:30.

Modeled after the "Doomsday Clock" first published in 1947 by
the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, the Paradigm Clock is a
device designed to represent the proximity to disclosure by the
U. S. government of the extraterrestrial presence - midnight.
It is located at the official website of the Paradigm Research
Group:  http://www.paradigmclock.com

The Clock website was published to the world wide web April 30,
1998 along with a retroactive history dating back to 1947.   The
1947 setting was 11:53:00, the same as the Doomsday Clock.  As
of April 30, 1998 the setting was 11:57:00.

Based upon events in May - July, the clock has been regressed a
net 30 seconds to a new time of 11:56:30.  These events and the
impact on the clock setting are as follows:

7/16 - Col. Philip Corso, author of The Day After Roswell, dies
of a heart attack in Florida and is no longer available to
personally defend the allegations in his memoir.   < 20 sec

6/29 - The Society for Scientific Exploration publishes its
analysis of major UFO incidents and calls for new investigations
and attention by the mainstream scientific community.   > 20 sec

May/June - in spite of pressure from the public and activist
organizations, no further Cydonia photos are to be taken until
the spring of 1999 by the Mars Global Surveyor.  < 20 sec

6/1 - Col. Philip Corso, author of  The Day After Roswell, signs
an affidavit in support of the Citizens Against UFO Secrecy
(CAUS) FOIA lawsuit against the Army, and legally attests to the
veracity of the allegations in his memoir.   > 10 sec

May - The major media fail to thoroughly cover the three new
Mars Global Surveyor photos of the Cydonia region of Mars,
dismissing the artificiality hypothesis based upon the first,
low resolution image of the "Face."  < 20 sec

Also available at the Paradigm Research Group website:

  -- The largest reference bibliography for the field of
extraterrestrial phenomena research available on the internet.
The largest reference bibliography in print is in Jerome Clark�s
masterwork, UFO Encyclopedia, 2nd Edition (1998).

-- Commentaries on pre- and post-disclosure issues.

-- �Politics of UFOs� section addressing the activist disclosure
movement.

For information about The Paradigm Clock or Paradigm Research
Group contact: Stephen Bassett ParadigmRG@aol.com








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                 British Attempt To 'Sniff' Out Life On Mars

From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:16:30 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 11:02:31 -0400
Subject: British Attempt To 'Sniff' Out Life On Mars


>From The Nando Times.

URL:

http://www2.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/health/072898/health19_4884_noframes.html


Stig

*******

British to attempt to 'sniff' out life on Mars

Copyright =A91998 Nando.net
Copyright =A91998 Scripps Howard

(July 28, 1998 02:10 a.m. EDT http://www.nandotimes.com) --
British scientists hope to land an instrument on Mars that will
"sniff" the presence of life. Beagle 2 -- the name evokes
Charles Darwin's world-changing voyage aboard HMS Beagle in 1831
-- could be launched aboard a European mission called "Mars
Express" in 2003.

Beagle 2 will weigh just 132 pounds. It will have a camera and a
robotic arm to drill into the heart of nearby rocks. A robot
"mole" will burrow under boulders to examine soil chemistry. Its
package of X-ray and spectrometry instruments will measure the
potassium ratios of the rocks to date them accurately, and look
for evidence of organic chemicals and the presence of water. It
is hoped it will answer questions about the possibility of
bygone life.

But its most sensitive detectors will also sample the thin
atmosphere of the red planet for the most tantalizing prize of
all -- methane. Methane is produced by microbes acting as
digesters, often in conditions without oxygen. The process goes
on in swamps, termites' nests and the guts of mammals..

Colin Pillinger of the Open University (England) said: "If there
is anything, any place on Mars, even somewhere deep down, 2,000
kilometers (1,200 miles) away from our landing site,
contributing methane continuously to the atmosphere, then we
have a chance of picking it up. I don't expect there to be very
much. But if you don't find any methane at all, then you really
have to start believing this is a very dead planet."

A NASA Viking mission more than 20 years ago pronounced Mars a
dead planet. Two years ago, NASA scientists, peering at a
Martian meteorite found in Antarctica, announced that they could
see fossil traces of ancient bacteria in the meteoritic rock:
evidence of life long ago. Others see the fossils as accidents
of rock chemistry. The debate has raged on.

Since then, the NASA Pathfinder mission has confirmed that Mars
was once a warmer world on which water flowed.

"Forget fossils," says Pillinger. "I believe the conditions on
Mars tell us that water has been percolating around less than 3
billion years ago, and it was warm, and therefore, somewhere
nicely hidden away from its oxidizing surface, there are
environments that may be geothermally heated, that could be
niches for life.

"We know now on Earth, 20 years after Viking, that life is much
more tenacious than we ever believed. It is able to survive in
some horrendous places on Earth, and therefore the chances of
finding it on Mars really need to be thought through and tried
again."

There is a catch. The mission is being designed and planned by a
consortium from the Open University, the University of
Leicester, Matra Marconi Space at Bristol, the Martin-Baker
Aircraft Co., the Rutherford Appleton laboratory and others. But
its promoters need to find guarantees of $40 million in time to
meet an autumn deadline set by the European Space Agency.


By TIM RADFORD, The Guardian. Distributed by Scripps Howard News
Service.

Copyright =A91998 Nando.net






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             DISPATCH # 98 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope

From: ParaScope@AOL.COM
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 00:32:12 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 10:59:39 -0400
Subject: DISPATCH # 98 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope

DISPATCH # 98 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope

S O M E T H I N G   S T R A N G E   I S   H A P P E N I N G

7/28/98

Quote of the Week

"The meek shall inherit the Earth, but not its mineral rights."

-- J. Paul Getty

-----------------------

Rant of the Week: �How Do You Spell Oija?�

Every week we pick the wackiest, scariest, nastiest or funniest rant from the
hundreds of letters received by us here at ParaScope headquarters, and present
it to you as our Rant of the Week. This week, �Davidson� ponders the spelling
capabilities of portals to the netherworld. Enjoy.


�Religious groups say that ouija boards are from the Devil. If you have a
bunch of baptists over and want to get rid of them, pull out the ouija. They
say that using that type of device will bring Satan or some demon into your
life. I have used ouija boards a few times, and it seems to me that it is
either my hand or the hands of one of the others touching the pointer that do
the actual moving. You want a certain answer and pull the pointer
subconsciously to the answer you want. I find it interesting that the ouija
board can never spell better that the person asking the question. There are
those who actually believe that these devices can contact the spirit world or
foretell future events. I am intrested in finding out if any one of you have
used one and it gave a prediction that came true or it contacted a spirt for
you.�

------

All rants are printed �as is,� with spelling and grammar goofs left
uncorrected. Some rants may be edited for brevity or clarity, to the extent
such a thing is possible. If you�ve got a rant you�d like to share, send it to
pscplady@aol.com with �possible rant� in the subject line of your letter.

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Coming Up This Week!

Catch a number of great stories this week on the ParaScope web and AOL sites,
including daily updates to our Conspiracy Newsline and Daily Dose features.
Among the articles you'll want to check out:



Alias Carlos Allende:
The Mystery Man Behind the Philadelphia Experiment

The key figure in the bizarre saga of the Philadelphia Experiment is a man
known as Carlos Allende, who claimed to witness the teleportation of the USS
Eldridge at the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard on August 15, 1943. Allende
reported his experiences to a UFO book author, and his story became one of the
most popular unexplained legends of the 20th century. But who was Carlos
Allende? ParaScope is pleased to present this classic article from FATE
Magazine, in which Robert A. Goerman revealed the elusive individual to be
Carl Allen, a "master leg-puller" from Pennsylvania who single-handedly
fabricated the Philadelphia Experiment
myth.

---------------

Photo Gallery: Edgewood Guinea Pigs

Between 1955 and 1975, Army Intelligence used 7,000 enlisted soldiers as human
guinea pigs for experiments involving a wide array of biological and chemical
warfare agents. Approximately 3,500 of these soldiers were given doses of
powerful mind-altering psychochemicals, including LSD, PCP, BZ and
scopolomine. These "volunteer" test subjects were not told which drugs they
were given, and were not fully informed of the extreme physical and
psychological effects these drugs would have on them. Take a peek behind the
walls of Edgewood Arsenal with this special ParaScope photo gallery, featuring
images from U.S. Army documentary footage of the experiments. "Edg wood Guinea
Pigs" can be found in ParaScope's image gallery, or accessed directly at:
www.parascope.com/gallery/galleryitems/edgewood/edgewood.htm

---------------

UFO Roundup

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UFO Roundup! In this week's edition: Crop circles show up in USA and UK; UFOs
hover over mountain cities in Italy; magazine prints intriguing photos from
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ingredients of life are there"; lots more news!

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sues judge who shocked him with "stun belt" for talking in court; lots more
news.


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   Jul > Jul 28

                            Re: Kal! You're here!

From: Keith Woodard <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:58:51 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 15:45:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Kal! You're here!


> From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Kal! You're here!
> Date: Tuesday, July 28, 1998 7:20 AM

> From: TotlResrch@aol.com
> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 00:04:07 EDT
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: Kal! You're here!

> >From: Keith Woodard <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
> >To: "UFO Updates" <updates@globalserve.net>
> >Subject: Kal! You're here!
> >Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 07:39:36 -0700

> >KAL!  What about that SIGHTING you were going to...describe...

> >Rats.  Missed him again.

> Unless I am mistaken, I believe I posted the details of my
> sighting back in May of 1997 -- last year!

<snip>

Yes, but Kal, you did say:

> Well, that's it for now...I will be happy to answer any
> questions anyone might have.

which led to this post of yours on December 27, 1997:

***************** Begin copy text ******************

From: TotlResrch <TotlResrch@aol.com> [Kal K. Korff]
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 02:50:44 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 21:06:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Kal Korff's UFO Sighting

>From: "Keith Woodard" <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
>To: "UFO Updates" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: NUFORC Reports on the US Northwest Mass
>Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:31:20 -0800

<snip>

>BTW, I assume my email was only one of many requests for
>clarification on your very intriguing 1981 sighting.  Any chance
>you could post more details?

>Kind regards,

>Keith

Keith, I'd be HAPPY to answer any questions about my UFO
sighting. Feel free to ask away!!

<snip>

***************** End copy text ******************

Which, in turn, led to:

***************** Begin copy text ******************

From: "Keith Woodard" <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 04:46:42 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 09:50:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Kal Korff's UFO Sighting

> From: TotlResrch <TotlResrch@aol.com> [Kal K. Korff]
> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 02:50:44 EST
> Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 21:06:32 -0500
> Subject: Re: Kal Korff's UFO Sighting

<snip>

Kal, you describe "a bright, red light with a definite metallic
or 'spherical' surface reflection behind it.  It was about the
angular size of the tip or head of a wooden stick match held at
arm's length."  Now, was it the light itself that was
matchhead-sized?  Did it look more or less like a huge red
aircraft light?  Is "spherical surface reflection" a reference to
an object attached to the light? I want to be clear as to both
the size of the light and the size of the associated metallic
object (if that's what it was).  Am I correct in visualizing a
spherical light attached to a larger spherical metallic object?

Could you expand on the comment, "the sky was pretty illuminated
in the direction of the object due to its location?"

You report that the "second object was about half the size and
half the brightness of the primary object."  Are we now talking
about two spherical metallic objects, each with a single red
light?

The object "executed eight perfect tight circle maneuvers."
Could you hazard a ball-park guess as to the diameter of these
circles? Maybe closer to ten full moons than three?

Aside from the South Bay in the winter of '81, are you aware of
any other UFO reports of objects that appeared or behaved similar
to this one?

***************** End copy text ******************

To which you have not as yet responded.

Kind regards,

Keith







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                            Re: Kal! You're here!

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:09:50 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 15:49:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Kal! You're here!


> From: TotlResrch@aol.com
> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 00:04:07 EDT
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: Kal! You're here!

> I tried flagging down some cars but in typical California style,
> no one would stop. I then returned to observing the object. It
> sat there motionless for a minute or so, and then executed 8
> PERFECT tight circle maneuvers in succession before it stopped
> once again and rose STRAIGHT UP above the cloud cover where we
> lost it for good. The total sighting lasted about 11 minutes,
> maybe 15, depending on whose wristwatch you believe.

Kal -

How long did it take to complete each circle?

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/library.htm
------







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                           They Drop Like a Rock!

From: Mark LeCuyer <randydan@wavetech.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 12:46:17 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 16:01:01 -0400
Subject: They Drop Like a Rock!


Hello Everyone:)

Can anyone enlighten me as to why two of the military jet crashes
I've seen in the news over the last two years have video of them
dropping straight down from the sky like a rock? If these jets
were cruising along at their slowest possible speeds and
malfunction, wouldn't physics dictate that they crash along a
diagonal line of trajectory rather than vertically from the sky
as a helicopter would?

I may be wrong, but... I don't think so. This indicates that some
form of antigravitics are in use on these craft. Would it really
be of any surprise if that were the case? I still believe the
black flying triangles are terrestrial military craft aided along
by the help of extraterrestrial technology. Antigravity being one
of the major advancements.

Any logical comments, suggestions, ideas, reasons, etc... as to
why they drop like a rock?

From: Mark - Alien Astronomer
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583






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                      Re: Triangular UFOs over Belgium

From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 15:17:13 +0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 16:07:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Triangular UFOs over Belgium


>Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 22:42:42 -0400
>From: Peter Duke of Mendoza Brookesmith <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Triangular UFOs over Belgium
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Triangular UFOs over Belgium
>>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 23:54:12 -0400

>The Anglican Communion, which has recently been reminding itself
>that it is broad & tolerant church while debating in Synod its
>attitude to gay people, has plenty of archbishops. Some of its
>bishops have recently caused a spot of bother by questioning the
>Virgin Birth, Resurrection of the Christ, &c.,

<snip>

Duke,

Considering the definite preference of skeptics in general
towards obscurantism, I was referring in my post to the less
appealing ages of Christianity. Obscurantism confirmed by your
tasty:

>Free expression by itself was never a seed of anything but more
>free expression. (Cf. D.H. Lawrence: "Thank God I am not free,
>any more than a tree with roots.")

Which proves again that you have all your references mixed up as
D.H. Lawrence was a victim himself of the intolerance of his
contemporaries towards free expression.

But let's get to the heart of the matter.

One problem with you skeptics is that you bring nothing to the
debate. Just think of the pejorative meaning the term "skeptic"
has acquired under your auspices. Defining answers instead of
looking for some has had you trading dignity for fame, nobility
for shame.

There are SOME people in ufology who are doing some half-decent
research and who want to know. Read the posts and note that,
contrary to skeptics, asses get kicked not kissed, the former
being considered sport, the later bad taste.

In your own words:

>Then get thee to "Alien Abductions" by yrs truly, where I take
>my old friend Phil Klass to task on at least two counts (I am in
>receipt of a letter from Phil complaining about them, too)

You took Klass in two counts ?!  Jesus, Duke, how heroic of you. What
about the 7 dozen other counts you should have taken him on ?   And
Phil old boy just wrote you about those two (up an index, up a middle
finger) counts ?  An objective attitude towards Klass would have been
to stick thy index up thy nose and let the middle finger do the
talkin', but, my God, skeptics don't form a Church, they form a
Sanctum as. . .

. . . in your own words:

>quibble wih others implicitly throughout. I can also cite
>instances of Kottmeyer being unenchanted with Stacy (not a
>debunker) over the latter's Abortion Anxiety Hypothesis, Klass
>disputing Kottmeyer's interpretation of the Father Gill/PNG
>case, and John Harney (Magonia ETH Bulletin) questioning Klass
>on the Walton case. Just off the top of my head. [...]

Let's bet the quibbling has not gone against the established
order: let's piss off the people who are trying to make sense of
all of this.

Because this is what it is all about: something has been
happening here for more than 50 years now. It is a phenomenon
with different faces which is _evidently_ out of this world,
e.g. not within our common frame of experience. For more then 50
years, all efforts to understand the phenomenon have been
consistently and systematically countered with arguments whose
triviality bears no common measure with the graveness of the
matter at hand.

Hey, Duke Dude, some people are trying to understand here. And I
submit to you that, if some of you skeptics are dishonest, the
others are plain irresponsible.

As for:

>I'm not suggesting ufology is _one_ church. It's a mass of
>communions, cults, sects and congregations. And agnostics,
>heretics, apostates, atheists, and bemused unlookers.

You are absolutely right: there are a lot of bull-shitters in
ufology, a lot of people with agendas, people who don't give a
damn about what is right or wrong, people who are in the pursuit
only of obscure personal goals.

And who needs them ?

I can only bow to your lucidity and I must now retract myself:
in the light of the preceding 8 lines, skeptics cannot be
excluded anymore from ufology, they fit in perfectly.

And who needs them ?

Enjoy,

Serge Salvaille







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                       C-E: What To Do With Sturrock?

From: slk <slk@EVANSVILLE.NET>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 10:18:26 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 15:59:01 -0400
Subject: C-E: What To Do With Sturrock?

On Tue, 28 Jul 1998 11:08:17, Bob Durant <70232.17@compuserve.com>
wrote:

What To Do With Sturrock?

Public opinion polls show that over 50% of adult Americans think
UFOs are "real," over 70% think the government is hiding
information about UFOs, and 40 % think that the government is
concealing information proving the existence of UFOs, presumably
hardware or bodies. Only one out of three are skeptics.

Those are extraordinary numbers. They mean that more Americans
believe in UFOs than the number who voted for Reagan or Bush or
Clinton. Roman Catholics are the largest religious denomination
in the U.S., and the UFO "believers" outnumber them two to one.
Fundamentalist Christians comprise about 10% of the population,
and exert a huge influence on the Congress. UFO "believers"
outnumber them by five to one.

Almost without exception since the press began reporting the UFO
story in 1947, journalism has demeaned the topic and those who
take it seriously. The climate of ridicule surrounding the UFO
phenomenon has prevented meaningful activity by those elements
of our society in a position to study it. I mean, the scientific
and academic communities. UFO research has been pushed into a
tiny backwater, unfunded and without the resources that are
automatic in every established discipline.

There are some "good" reasons why scientists steer clear of
UFOs, but the "bad" reasons are the overwhelming rule. This is a
cultural issue, not a scientific one.

When 70% of the population believes its government is engaged in
a program of systematic deception on a topic of such fundamental
importance as UFOs, this presents an ominous social issue.
Regardless of one's belief about the "reality" of UFOs, this
fact alone should militate for an open study. This is not a
"scientific" reason for such a study, but in a society
increasingly alienated from its ruling institutions, it is
nevertheless a

A related topic is the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence.
It consists of a search for radio signals, and from the outset
the practitioners have made extraordinary efforts to distance
themselves from UFOs. SETI began in 1959. Thirty nine years
later, they have not a single piece of data. Yet they continue
to spend lavishly, using the taxpayer's money at a rate of 11
million dollars per year until that was cut off, and then
raising a similar sum from private sources. In fact, most SETI
funding is still begged, borrowed and stolen from publicly
funded programs.

Contrast SETI with the UFO situation, in which we have no
funding at all -- and a mountain of data.

Several central figures in SETI recently appeared on National
Public Radio as part of their continuing public relations
campaign. They complained that the UFO issue is always raised
when they speak to the public. Apparently Mr. and Mrs. America
are so stupid that they assume their money is being spent in a
real search for extraterrestrial intelligence, not just the
absurdly narrow search for radio signals. So much for the
unwashed, or so I gathered from listening to the boffins.

I said that journalism has ridiculed UFOs, almost without
exception. The exceptions are quite instructive. The first
instance was the Air Force "swamp gas" explanation for a series
of sightings. For reasons that escape me, the press suddenly
came to life, denouncing not UFOs and UFO observers, but the Air
Force for this preposterous claim. Newspapers throughout the
country wrote editorials making fun of the Air Force, and
published clever cartoons skewering the Swamp Gas officials.

The second instance is recent, and that is the postscript Air
Force "explanation" for Roswell. I refer to the "crash dummies,"
and the ensuing furor in the press, nearly all of it denouncing
the Air Force.

Almost on the heels of the "dummy" paroxysm, we have the
Sturrock Report, which was on the front page of most newspapers,
including such important journals as the Washington Post and the
Atlanta Constitution. The story was played "straight," meaning
without the usual attempts at demeaning cleverness. A panel of
real scientists had concluded that UFOs deserve serious study.
(That's what the press said, and it is a telling and unfortunate
thing that ufologists have ignored that message, opting instead
to engage in endless nit-picking of what the Panel did or did
not write.)  This was not just "news," it was front page news,
and it was a huge vindication not only for ufologists, but for
the great majority of the American public.

The first instance in which the press sided with "us" resulted
in a congressional inquiry and then in the establishment of the
Condon study. Such is the power of this topic when combined with
a "good press."

Politicians would much rather be called crooks than fools. That
is why the favorable press treatment of UFOs is critical.
Without fear of ridicule from the press, the politicians will
hasten to pander to the public's enthusiasm for UFOs.

The Sturrock Panel story closely following the "dummy" fiasco,
combined with the intense public interest and belief revealed by
public opinion polls, should set the stage for action on Capitol
Hill. What is past is prologue.

My suggestion for putting the Sturrock Report to practical use
is to meld all of the factors listed above, and use them to
mount a public relations campaign of our own. The target should
be the Congress. The goal should be to set up a long term study
of UFOs. This time around we know how NOT to do it. For example,
don't put a known crackpot- debunker in charge of the study.

Most Senators and Representatives would endorse such a study. In
fact, "studies" and "commissions" are the politician's dream
come true. This is a time-honored way to evade and avoid making
hard decisions. At the same time, it gives the public what the
public plainly wants -- the appearance that something worthwhile
is being done about UFOs.

President Clinton would welcome anything that might put his
other problems on page two. A UFO Commission would also get
Laurance Rockefeller off Clinton's back.

But with just a little bit of luck, a genuine inquiry can be
made, using the federally funded resources required for this
awesome task, but that are forever beyond the grasp of civilian
ufology.

I would commend, mainly as a public relations trick, that we
demand that half of all current SETI funding be allocated to UFO
research. This will certainly make good sense to the taxpayer,
and to the press, and therefore to the politicians, and it will
panic the SETI crowd and their fellow-travelers. The panic will
probably result in a "political" settlement in which ufology
gets the grudging support of the SETI folks in return for being
allowed to continue their strange hobby, though on a somewhat
reduced allowance.

Several years ago I was browsing in a Government Printing Office
store, where I found a NASA brochure on SETI. It was elaborately
printed on fine paper and in color, and seemed written for the
seventh grade student needing something for a "report."  I wrote
to NASA inquiring about what the brochure cost. They replied:
$76,000. This is chump change to NASA and the SETI crowd, but a
fortune to ufologists. It would pay for half a dozen very worthy
projects in this field.

An attack on the "radio only" SETI program, and a demand for a
piece of their funding, would find great favor with the public,
and with talk show hosts, and eventually with the politicians in
Washington who can fund UFO research. The tale of the SETI
brochure can be used to great effect in these forums.

The politicians are not likely to take the initiative. But I
predict that they will eagerly take the bait if it is offered to
them in a concrete proposal. The UFO Coalition can do that, and
should begin at once.

R. J. Durant 28 July 1998






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                                    Rosie

From: Sheree Cox <cox@mcmail.CIS.McMaster.CA>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 16:10:02 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 18:18:28 -0400
Subject: Rosie


Hi List:

Did anyone see the Rosie O'Donnell show last Monday? I tuned in
to it the last 2 minutes of her UFO story and missed everything.


**************************************
Sheree Cox :)
McMaster University
Math. & Stats. Dept.
BSB/133
(905) 525-9l40 Ext. 24582
E-mail: cox@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca
**************************************









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                         Ohio Crop Circe: Explained?

From: Kenny Young <task@fuse.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:04:01 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 18:23:05 -0400
Subject: Ohio Crop Circe: Explained?

This article is courtesy of researcher Jerry Hamm from Napoleon,
Ohio, who has been following the Paulding Crop Circle situation.

-------------------------------------------------------------

"Researcher: newest crop circle appears authentic"
Paulding County Progress, Paulding, Ohio
Wednesday, July 22, 1998

By DENISE GEBERS, Correspondent

BROUGHTON - Two years ago, Jeffrey M. Wilson, an undergraduate
at Eastern Michigan University who teaches astronomy, visited
and investigated his first crop circle. It was located in
Jackson Township of Paulding County.

About 130 crop circles later, he has returned to Paulding
County, wiser and more experienced in his chosen area of
research. And he has developed a theory. He believes such events
are weather related.

"All (weather) fronts, weak or strong, have an electrical
charge, said Wilson. And it is his belief that crop circles and
other shapes are created by a phenomenon of weather.

"These come in other shapes. Some can look like random wind
damage. But you can't tell unless they're tested," he said. "We
find with our meters and detectors the same readings that are
found in the geometric figures (circles). It's not very well
understood."

The circle found July 6 in Paulding County seems to be no
different. Wilson said he and an assistant took samples for six
to seven hours on July 12. They took radiation levels, electric
field strength, magnetic field strength, microwave and radio
wave levels inside and outside the formation.

Although there were no signs of radiation, microwaves or radio
waves, Wilson felt the compression was not hoaxed.

"Based on detailed indications at the event, I'm led to believe
it is genuine he concluded. "It is an authentic weather
phenomenon."

He noted magnetic field strength within the circle was double
(1.0) and triple (1.5) that outside the formation (0.5). He
hypothesized the radiation levels would have been different if
tests would have run sooner.

Wilson felt the circle was probably formed in late June for two
reasons: 1) the wheat was ripened before it was flattened and 2)
green vegetation was already growing up through the formation.

"There are only signature readings quickly after the creation
(of a circle) or it dissipates," he said. Since he calculated
the circle was at least three weeks old when he ran tests, he
said he was not expecting to find radiation.

Wilson said his presence in the field crew a handful of curious
neighbors. All but one of them told him stories of lightning in
the area. He said the house south of the field where the circle
was found had been struck by lightning June 26 or 27. The
occupant had indicated they felt a bolt also hit the field as
the most intense part of a storm passed over the area.

Wilson got the impression from those present that ball lightning
is not uncommon in the area, which in itself is uncommon.

"Ball lightning is not well understood by physicists," said
Wilson. "It is charged plasma (the fourth state of matter). It
is not known how it is formed and it does strange things. It can
pass through a building without doing any damage."

According to Wilson, neighbors told him stories of power
fluctuations and strange noises during this year's turbulent
weather in their area.

"It was definitely weather that could have hit the field and
created this," he said.

Wilson expected to have some analysis of his tests over the
weekend, but could not be reached for further comment before
deadline.


End of article
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/task/






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                         Re: Lake Ontario 'Streaks'

From: Jennifer Jarvis <fierycelt@full-moon.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 16:20:50 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 18:28:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Lake Ontario 'Streaks'


> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:35:58 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
> From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Lake Ontario 'Streaks'

<snip>

> On Friday, after I checked your updated web site which contained
> some of your latest observations, I was tempted to go out this
> weekend and scan the sky for myself to see if I too could see
> such distant lights and objects.  Although I considered
> observing from the Lakeview generating plant west of Toronto or
> from Niagara on the Lake (and possibly bump into you and your
> fellow observes), I concluded that my single observations would
> not lead to a solution of these unknown lights or objects over
> Lake Ontariou unless my observing activities were coordinated
> with you or others.  Using cell phones and compasses, observers
> from two or more distant observing sites would try and see the
> same objects.  If one group same a light or object in one
> direction and the other group saw it too but in a different
> direction, we could then easily calculate its size and exact
> location over the lake.  We may then even consider taking a boat
> and observing from this exact location on the lake too (this
> could be done frequently and cheaply now that there is a new
> hydrofoil boat that makes frequent trips to and from Toronto and
> Niagara on the Lake).

> If only one group saw the light or object while another did not,
> then it would suggest that it was much closer to the first group
> and would be something very small (such as sunlight shining off
> the body of one of the many seagulls flying low over Lake
> Ontario).

> Would you and your fellow observers like to try this?  We may
> even find the answers to what these things really are.  Isn't
> this the reason why you are out there observing and recording
> these things in the first place?


Hi Nick,

Thanks for your response.

YES!  Let's do it. Hugh Cochrane was suggesting using GPS gear.
I have tried the cell phone thing, but sometimes, when so low down
and close to the water, the calls don't get through.

However, this would make a lot of sense.

Is there anyone else out there willing to join the project?

Best wishes.

Jennifer Jarvis.

--
"It is a strange place where ships, planes and
people vanish into thin air, where weird fogs and
globes of light abound, where ominous waters
shroud sinister events."
         - Hugh Cochrane, "Gateway to Oblivion."

*******************************************
Please visit our website "ORBWATCH" at

http://www.per.to/orbwatch

*******************************************







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   Jul > Jul 28

               Re: British Attempt To 'Sniff' Out Life On Mars

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 20:24:09 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:32:25 -0400
Subject: Re: British Attempt To 'Sniff' Out Life On Mars


> From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 01:02:36 +0200
> Subject: Re: Researcher Presents Case For Liquid Water On Mars

<snip>

> The full published paper is at

> http://www.biospherics.com/mars/spie2/spie98.htm

<snip>

> From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:16:30 +0200
> Subject: British Attempt To 'Sniff' Out Life On Mars

<snip>

> http://www2.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/health/072898/health19_4884_noframes.html

> Stig

<snip>

> (July 28, 1998 02:10 a.m. EDT http://www.nandotimes.com) --
> British scientists hope to land an instrument on Mars that will
> "sniff" the presence of life. Beagle 2 -- the name evokes
> Charles Darwin's world-changing voyage aboard HMS Beagle in 1831
> -- could be launched aboard a European mission called "Mars
> Express" in 2003.

Hi everyone,

Two years ago NASA announced to the world that after careful
studies of a rock recovered in Antarctica thought to be from
Mars, they were now confident that microbial life existed there.
Not everyone was convinced though.

Two years later, we are now informed by Dr. Levin (see Stig's 24
Jul post above) that "Last year, a paper by the senior author
concluded that the Labeled Release (LR) Experiment on the 1976
Viking Mission to Mars had detected living microorganisms in the
planet's surface material."..."The purpose of this paper is to
establish the presence of liquid water in the surface material of
Mars, and in sufficient quantity to support microorganisms,
thereby eliminating all explanations but a biological
interpretation of the LR Mars results.
In short, microbial life on Mars was discovered back in 1976.

In the next few years the Europeans plan to land a spacecraft on
Mars to "sniff" for the presence of life (see Stig's 28 Jul post
above).  If Dr. Levin is correct, I think the Europeans are
nearly 28 years too late.  Stay tuned to CNN...

Nick Balaskas








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                         Re: They Drop Like a Rock!

From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 19:37:32 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:28:47 -0400
Subject: Re: They Drop Like a Rock!


>From: Mark LeCuyer <randydan@wavetech.net>
>To: "UFO UpDates Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: They Drop Like a Rock!
>Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 12:46:17 -0500


>Hello Everyone:)

>Can anyone enlighten me as to why two of the military jet crashes
>I've seen in the news over the last two years have video of them
>dropping straight down from the sky like a rock? If these jets
>were cruising along at their slowest possible speeds and
>malfunction, wouldn't physics dictate that they crash along a
>diagonal line of trajectory rather than vertically from the sky
>as a helicopter would?


Mark,

Your question concerns glide ratio. Military jets tend to have
very low glide ratio, and very high wing loading. If you've ever
seen the wings on a glider, they are very long, and the glider is
very light. This essentially means that, on a glider, a lot of
wing does relatively little work, and the plane will glide a long
way forward without much loss in altitude.  Military jets on the
other hand, usually have very heavy fuselages and stubby wings.
This enables the jet to go fast without much drag from a lot of
wing sticking out into the wind. The downside is that they have
little to no glide ratio. When airspeed over the wings slows for
whatever reason, the wing "stalls" or quits flying, and the plane
drops, because it won't glide...it's just too heavy and the wings
are too small.

Hope that clears it up a bit for you Mark. Don't be too
disappointed, but I'm afraid good old aerodynamics are to blame.

Greg





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                         Re: They Drop Like a Rock!

From: Kerry Ferrand <kferrand@rocketmail.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:44:07 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:33:54 -0400
Subject: Re: They Drop Like a Rock!


> From: Mark LeCuyer <randydan@wavetech.net>
> To: "UFO UpDates Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: They Drop Like a Rock!
> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 12:46:17 -0500

> Can anyone enlighten me as to why two of the military jet crashes
> I've seen in the news over the last two years have video of them
> dropping straight down from the sky like a rock? If these jets
> were cruising along at their slowest possible speeds and
> malfunction, wouldn't physics dictate that they crash along a
> diagonal line of trajectory rather than vertically from the sky
> as a helicopter would?

> I may be wrong, but... I don't think so. This indicates that some
> form of antigravitics are in use on these craft. Would it really
> be of any surprise if that were the case?

This indicates a massive jump to conclusion. The aircraft you
describe have probably entered a stall state and their
aerodynamic surfaces no-longer provide lift..thus they might as
well be rocks and fall to earth the same way.

Another factor is that alot of modern military aircraft designs
are aerodynamically unstable at any speed - if it wasn't for
computers constantly adjusting surfaces and trim X times per
second they might do the rock act too..

K









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   Jul > Jul 28

                 Scientists Complete Study Of Strange Lights

From: Stig Agermose <wanderer@post8.tele.dk>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 04:14:48 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:38:35 -0400
Subject: Scientists Complete Study Of Strange Lights

>From the BBC. URL:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/sci/tech/newsi
d_140000/140963.stm

Go the site for images!


Stig


*******


Tuesday, July 28, 1998 Published at 12:25 GMT
13:25 UK


Chasing lights in the sky


A team of scientists has just completed a two-week project to
study mysterious lights in the upper atmosphere called red
sprites and blue jets. Our science editor Dr David Whitehouse
reports

Red sprites and blue jets are strange lights that appear in the
upper atmosphere above thunderstorms.

The red sprites are large flashes of red light that last just a
few thousandths of a second. They can reach as high as the lower
edge of the stratosphere, about 90 km high.

They are faint and usually require a low light level camera to
detect them.

They can spread over huge regions of the sky. Some as large as
10,000 cubic kilometres have been reported.

Blue jets seem to emerge directly from the tops of clouds and
shoot upwards in narrow cones through the stratosphere at speeds
of about 100 km a second.

For two weeks a Gulfstream 2 jet aircraft has carried 8 TV
imaging systems above the western United States in search of
thunderstorms and sprites.

Observations in the air were co-ordinated with ground based
observatories.

One remarkable event was seen over central Iowa. A sprite was
seen with tendrils of light trailing all the way down to the
clouds.

These dancing lights are undeniably beautiful but scientists
would like to know how they are caused.

The sprites and jets indicate that thunderstorms are more
complicated than was once thought. Scientists are speculating
that they might be an essential part of the earth's global
electrical activity.

Also in recent years there have been puzzling observations from
satellites that suggest that very high energy radiation may come
from thunderstorms.

=A9





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                         Re: They Drop Like a Rock!

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 22:57:38 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:41:06 -0400
Subject: Re: They Drop Like a Rock!

Mark LeCuyer wrote:

>From: Mark LeCuyer <randydan@wavetech.net>
>To: "UFO UpDates Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: They Drop Like a Rock!
>Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 12:46:17 -0500

>Hello Everyone:)

>Can anyone enlighten me as to why two of the military jet crashes
>I've seen in the news over the last two years have video of them
>dropping straight down from the sky like a rock?

It's called a "flat spin" and an excellent example exists in the
movie "Top Gun". It is basically a stall and can have several
causes. All airplanes must have good laminar flow of air across
the wing surfaces in order to maintain lift. If something
suddenly disturbs this flow, lift disappears and the plane drops
like a rock.

Causes vary. The most common cause is too high an angle of
attack for conditions. In other words, the craft tries to climb
too rapidly. The flow of air over the wing is interrupted and
the plane stalls. High performance aircraft usually have the
most difficulty recovering from a stall. Their wings are
designed to create minimum drag during flight instead of maximum
lift. Some aircraft are practically immune to stalls. The best
plane to learn to fly in is one with the wings over the fuselage
of the craft. They tend to float like a leaf to the ground
instead of an unstable spin. This motion makes it easy to
recover from a stall.

Another common cause is "backwash" from another craft. Wing tips
create vortices which can disturb laminar flow on a following
craft. This is one reason takeoffs have a minimum spacing at
airports. Time is allowed for the wing vortex of the previous
plane to dissipate or propagate.

Nothing mysterious, I'm afraid.

Terry







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                         Re: 'Paradigm Clock' Re-set

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 19:27:52 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:25:50 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Paradigm Clock' Re-set


> From: Stephen G. Bassett <ParadigmRG@aol.com>
> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 00:32:17 EDT
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: PRG Press Release

>  P  R  G
> Paradigm Research Group

> ***   FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE  ***

> July 27, 1998 -- Washington, DC --  �The Paradigm Clock� has
> been reset to 11:56:30.

> Modeled after the "Doomsday Clock" first published in 1947 by
> the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, the Paradigm Clock is a
> device designed to represent the proximity to disclosure by the
> U. S. government of the extraterrestrial presence - midnight.
> It is located at the official website of the Paradigm Research
> Group:  http://www.paradigmclock.com

> The Clock website was published to the world wide web April 30,
> 1998 along with a retroactive history dating back to 1947.   The
> 1947 setting was 11:53:00, the same as the Doomsday Clock.  As
> of April 30, 1998 the setting was 11:57:00.

> Based upon events in May - July, the clock has been regressed a
> net 30 seconds to a new time of 11:56:30.  These events and the
> impact on the clock setting are as follows:

> 7/16 - Col. Philip Corso, author of The Day After Roswell, dies
> of a heart attack in Florida and is no longer available to
> personally defend the allegations in his memoir.   < 20 sec

The Day After (...Roswell) Colonel Philip J. Corso died,
Sergeant Clifford E. Stone was interviewed by Jeff Rense on his
radio show Sightings (July 17).  Although I have read Clifford's
book, UFOs Are Real - which is packed with official UFO related
documents and in which he claims to have been a member of a
special U.S. team whose job it was to recover crashed UFOs - I
was surprised by the new and unexpected things that Clifford
revealed on this radio show.  Unlike Colonel Corso who briefly
examined what he thought were aliens bodies and handled some
material thought to have originated from the Roswell UFO crash,
Sergeant Stone has now gone on record with detailed accounts of
his involvement in secret UFO crash retrieval operations and
even encounters with UFO aliens, both dead and living.

If Clifford's accounts are true, then the Paradigm Clock should
now be sounding the arrival of Midnight.

Jeff Rense has Clifford Stone scheduled for another interview on
Sightings for Friday, July 31.  The previous interview is
archived on Jeff's Sightings web site and can be heard anytime.
What are your thoughts on Clifford Stone and his shocking
revelations?

Nick Balaskas









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               Southerners Less Inclined To 'Believe In' UFOs

From: Stig Agermose <wanderer@post8.tele.dk>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 04:57:30 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:45:16 -0400
Subject: Southerners Less Inclined To 'Believe In' UFOs

>From the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. URL:

http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/bigstory/072698/paran
orm.html

Stig

*******

Cosmic mysteries continue to intrigue


By Carolyn Nizzi Warmbold
Journal-Constitution Staff Writer


Some results of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution's Southern
Focus Poll may bring smiles of recognition to readers of
supermarket tabloids.

A sizeable minority of respondents believe in UFOs, ghosts,
extraterrestrials and psychic healing. An even greater number
place credence in devil possession, superstitions and ESP.

These topics, mostly ignored or ridiculed in the mainstream
media, have long been staples in the weeklies sold near checkout
lines. These papers' content combines a high CQ - cosmic
quotient - with grocery-store gospel - news of weeping Madonnas
and the like.

A recent Sun, for example,  predicted a Great Flood in a cover
spread labeled "Bible Prophecies Come True." In other stories,
it asserted that "demonic possessions have risen to plague-like
proportions" and that there is "a frightening rash of UFO
sightings throughout North America." It linked Mother Teresa to
a bleeding crucifix in Calcutta, and ran an ad for a prayer with
an "iron-clad guarantee."

The AJC poll suggests that such topics do resonate with large
numbers. History suggests this has long been the case.
Supermarket tabloids' content can be traced at least as far back
as English "broadside ballads," published in the 16th to 19th
centuries. These were rhymed compositions, often about crimes,
public hangings or cosmic phenomena, printed on a single sheet,
to be sung and sold in the street. The broadsides were often
illustrated with woodcut prints of their subjects: a pig-headed
woman, ghosts walking,
a woman possessed.


PSYCHIC HEALING

Do you believe in psychic or spiritual healing, or the power of
the mind to heal the body?=A0

................South..........Non-south
Believe.........50%............59%
Not sure........12%............13%
Don't believe...39%............29%

Source: AJC Southern Focus Poll


The 17th-century diarist Samuel Pepys categorized broadside
themes in 10 categories, which have endured through the
centuries to our tabloid era. These include devotion and
morality; "history - true and fabulous"; tragedy, including
judgments of God; and "love fortunate" and "love unfortunate."

For the moment, however, supermarket tabloids' CQ seems to be
declining. Not too many years ago, stories about hauntings, UFO
sightings and miracles were common in The National Enquirer, the
nation's best-selling and best-known tab. Recently, however, the
Enquirer has trended more toward Hollywood phenoms than heavenly
phenomena.

The gap is not likely to be filled by the mainstream daily
press, despite the recent surge in coverage of religion, faith
and values. These pages and sections are more apt to cite
ordained ministers than doomsday specialists.


EXTRATERRESTRIAL BEINGS

Do you believe extraterrestrial beings have visited
Earth at some time in the past?=A0

................South.....Non-south
Believe.........32%.......37%
Not sure........21%.......25%
Don't believe...47%.......38%

Source: AJC Southern Focus Poll


But that doesn't mean the archetypal news of cosmic mystery will
go unreported. The void, one suspects, will largely be filled by
the Internet, home of niche interests. UFO Web sites featured
photos and videos of sightings, interviews with abductees,
reports, articles and much more, including 52 indicators of UFO
encounters or alien abduction.

Exclamation-point headlines being the staple of supermarket
tabloids, let me predict this one: World Wide Web to Go
Cosmic!!! That prognostication, be warned, does not come with an
ironclad guarantee.

E-mail staff writer Carolyn Nizzi Warmbold.








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                         Re: They Drop Like a Rock!

From: gt mccoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 20:52:23 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 00:10:26 -0400
Subject: Re: They Drop Like a Rock!


>From: Mark LeCuyer <randydan@wavetech.net>
>To: "UFO UpDates Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: They Drop Like a Rock!
>Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 12:46:17 -0500

>Hello Everyone:)

>Can anyone enlighten me as to why two of the military jet crashes
>I've seen in the news over the last two years have video of them
>dropping straight down from the sky like a rock? If these jets
>were cruising along at their slowest possible speeds and
>malfunction, wouldn't physics dictate that they crash along a
>diagonal line of trajectory rather than vertically from the sky
>as a helicopter would?

>I may be wrong, but... I don't think so. This indicates that some
>form of antigravitics are in use on these craft. Would it really
>be of any surprise if that were the case? I still believe the
>black flying triangles are terrestrial military craft aided along
>by the help of extraterrestrial technology. Antigravity being one
>of the major advancements.

>Any logical comments, suggestions, ideas, reasons, etc... as to
>why they drop like a rock?

Hello, all I am new to the list, but as a Pilot and having some
interest in flying machines of all types, I recall an airshow
that l was at when a F 101 Voodoo, during a afterburner climb,
blew up, and yep, it dropped like a rock into a smoking pile
just like the F117 recently did.

also the pilot ejected safely. Aerodynamics play a large part
with how a plane goes in : control position, weight ,center of
gravity, design variables,as in maybe the thing was actually
made to go splat! sans pilot,(hopefully) to give little info to
whomever finds it. I'm not saying you are wrong but there are
explinations for dropping like a rock-McCoy







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               Re: Scientists Complete Study Of Strange Lights

From: Stig Agermose <wanderer@post8.tele.dk>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 05:38:30 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 00:23:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Scientists Complete Study Of Strange Lights

Further thought-provoking information on these UFOs
(Unidentified Flashing Objects) was to be seen in The Observer
(UK) December 16 1996. URL:

http://online.guardian.co.uk/paper/archive/961216Scientists.html


Stig


*******


Scientists track heavenly flasher


Tim Radford, Science Editor


AMERICAN scientists have obtained images of a UFO on the edge of
space - an Unidentified Flashing Object. A team from Stanford
university told the American Geophysical Union meeting in San
Francisco yesterday that it has begun to track down a mysterious
force that has baffled high-flying pilots for two decades.

The "UFO" was a celestial light of a class called "elves" -
luminous rings 55 or 60 miles high that grow to 160 miles across
in under a thousandth of a second.

Other heavenly flashers include "blue jets", streamers of light
that stretch as far as 30 miles above the clouds, and "red
sprites", diffuse blobs of light that exist for a few
thousandths of second, 25-55 miles above the clouds. For a
while, cosmic rays were blamed. Now all of them are thought to
be a kind of afterglow from lightning.

They have been described as as momentary glows in the upper sky.
Some of the ghostly phenomena last for such a short time that
nobody is sure they can actually be seen with the naked eye at
all, others occur at subliminal speeds. There have been so many
explanations for them that one researcher began talking of a
theory of the week club. Most of the evidence comes from going
back over videotapes made by stratosphere investigators and
shuttle astronauts. Until airliners and military pilots began
flying regularly at stratospheric heights, they were not seen at
all, and they were unexpected: lightning should go from clouds
to ground, rather than clouds to space.

A team led by Professor Umran Inan, an electrical engineer at
Stanford, built a camera called a Fly's Eye to capture the
fleeting flashes of elves. The instrument has a dozen 18 inch
barrels, each pointing to a different part of the sky. It can
"fix" time to 30 millionths of a second, so it can map what
happens to elves in their brief lifetimes.

"Certain events in the upper reaches of the atmosphere, like
solar storms, can affect the lower atmosphere, resulting in
significant consequences like power blackouts," said Professor
Inan yesterday. "Now we are learning that certain events in the
lower atmosphere can affect the upper atmosphere. Because about
1,000 lightning strokes occur each minute around the world, it
is not unlikely these effects may have a global
impact on the atmosphere."


Monday, December 16, 1996







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                Catalog of Levelland concentration, Nov 1957

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 02:04:41 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 00:48:09 -0400
Subject: Catalog of Levelland concentration, Nov 1957

This case, perhaps the most important concentration of vehicle
interference events in the United States, stands as a classic.

In contrast with the models proposed by "debunkers", this
concentration was short and sharp, and there was no apparent
role able to be played by publicity in the unfolding of the
events of 11/2 and 11/3. The reporting of the concentration was
not followed by a drawn out series of similar accounts over the
following days, as would be expected if psychosocial theories of
UFO report generation were true. And, of course, significant
(though mostly temporary) physical effects were reported by
witnesses from every demographic category, includng law
enforcement and military personnel. Heat, odor, and sound were
also reported. Correlation of luminosity with vehicle
interference is clear in a subset of the cases.

I have cataloged all of the cases in the area from both Loren
Gross pamphlet and Hynek's "UFO Experience", and have provided
complete details of each case.

The catalog can be found at

http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/report/571102.htm

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/library.htm
------







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                 Re: 'Alien Abductions' by Peter Brookesmith

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 02:39:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 07:00:06 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Alien Abductions' by Peter Brookesmith


>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Alien Abductions' by Peter Brookesmith
>Date: Mon, 27 Jul 98 19:20:41 -0500
>From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com>
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>

>>From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto
>>Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:03:52 -0400
>>Subject: 'Alien Abductions' by Peter Brookesmith

>>I'm in the throes of reading the Duke of Mendoza's latest
>>tome. Since most of those involved in the pages of
>>'Alien Abductions' are subscribers and contributors to
>>UpDates I want to pass along the following to the List:

>>Dust Jacket Notes from:

>>'Alien Abductions'
>>by Peter Brookesmith

>>Copyright 1998 Brown Packaging Books Ltd

><snip>

>>described as 'the most charming of the UFO sceptics'.

>>'Alien Abductions'
>>by Peter Brookesmith

>>Copyright 1998 Brown Packaging Books Ltd

><snip>

>Aw, the guy can't handle good Texas brew, or Red Dog or Bud. He
>settled for wine coolers when he came here to visit. I'll say one
>thing though, he is indeed charming. Even if he does come equipped
>with a Zip drive & no battery.

>Never sell Her Majesties' skeptic short, I say,... sell him at a
>discount. :)

> Pat~

=========================================================

I agree. Sell him at a discount! ;-)

I'm only about a third of the way through the book. The copy I
received has several bits (individual articles) out of sequence
and it has made the reading slow and difficult. I have to hunt
through the book to see where one section is continued. It
changes randomly from page to page sometimes. I would imagine it
was an error in layout on the part of the printer and not the
way that Peter wrote it.

I cannot speak for anyone else. In the section that covers my
case Peter offers a purely mental/psychological explanation for
my experiences. ie; "hypnogogic/hypnopompic hallucinations.

Maybe so Duke, maybe so.

But in the same section where I am discussing the 'physical
sequelae' to these experiences Peter reports; "so far, the cause
for the scars (refering to my son James) remains unexplained."
While these marks may have a prosaic explanation, none has been
forthcoming. Not from my own family physician (who I have heard
remark on more than one occasion when confronted with the odd
marks and fully healed scars that we have presented, "I have
never seen anything like that!" No explanation for them has been
forthcoming from _any_other_quarter_ either.

Other than "stigmata" (which our scoop marks, bruises, and scars
are not) I am still waiting for someone to show me any
information/data/ evidence for hallucinations that leave marks
such as those (that we abductees) are presenting. Nope, sorry,
never heard of a hallucination that leaves 1/8" to 1/4" wide
craters (scoop marks) on the skin. Or a mark that appeared
overnight on my wifes' thigh (band/strap-like indentation) and
took 18 months to heal. Or the two identical (clean surgical
scars) that my son sports over each knee, or any number of other
equally odd manifestations that we have to live with. Peter
addresses the possibility that what we are experiencing is
purely psychological, but until someone can explain these damn
physical manifestations, and explain to me what those UFOs are
that I've been seeing all my life (many times under multiple
witness, daylight, and close-up conditions,) . . .I just don't
buy it. Peter is entitled to his opinions. But until this issue
is properly addressed and acknowledged; purely psychological
explanations simply don't hold much agua! (H2O)

I do want say that I have grown to like Peter immensely and I
value our friendship. Folks may disagree with him (I do!) but
when opposing points of view and philosophy are put on the side
and it's time to put down 'the mask' and just be a person, Peter
is one _glorious_bastard_ and I'm glad to know him.

Peace,

John Velez









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             P-1947 Re: Catalog of Levelland concentration, Nov

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 00:07:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 07:25:20 -0400
Subject: P-1947 Re: Catalog of Levelland concentration, Nov

Jan wrote:

> Great idea, Mark....I am glad you did this! This series of
> cases was completely obfuscated by the Air Force.

Thanks, Jan. No question this case remains one of the most
fascinating. I have a suspicion that there is a similar French
concentration in the 1954 wave which will be the subject of a
future subcatalog.

One of the most interesting things about Levelland is how much
information can be gleaned from nothing more than press
accounts. We have witnesses who see the metallic skin of the UFO
through the luminosity, we have a correlation between the
brightness of the UFO and the presence of the effect. We have an
apparent look at the side and the front of the UFO. We have
witnesses right in front of the object and witnesses at various
distances. We have a description of ammeter behavior during the
event. We have an engine restart without human intervention. If
only there had been a real investigation!

The main thing I wish we had was a higher level of certainty on
the size of the object. With the typically estimated 200 foot
length, and the elliptical shape, the object would have to be
somewhere between fifty and a hundred feet in vertical diameter
at the center. This is truly an awesome object, possibly close
to the scale of that in some of the satellite object / cloud
cigar cases - yet the object is reported as having exceptional
performance, and making near landings. One might profitably use
the density of an aircraft applied to an object of such a size
to get an idea as to how much thrust might be required to attain
the reported performance.

For instance, realize that at the reported dimensions, the size
of the Levelland object is comparable to a C5A Starlifter. This
implies a weight of between a quarter million and three quarters
of a million pounds. If the object rose 200 feet in 3 seconds
(one possible estimate of "rose swiftly"), the acceleration
would be 3 gravities and the speed at the end of the three
seconds would be 240 mph. The thrust required would seem to
require T=mag= 48,300,000 lbs of thrust at a 500,000 lb weight
(assuming no drag and no losses).This is eight times the thrust
of a Saturn V rocket. No wonder this UFO was occasionally heard
to emit sound - but still, where was this terrific level of
energy emitted, since no effects on the ground were discovered,
other than mild heating? In fact, with those energy levels, if
the Levelland object were a rocket, one would expect a large
portion of the town to have been vaporized.

This, in a nutshell, is the core of the UFO as a technological
problem.

> People talk like they know about UFOs. What conceit!
> Loren Gross' 1957 history series runs through 10 books.

> We are trying to get a slimmed down version of Loren's
> 1957 wave history published by FUFOR.

I'd like to see Loren offer a subscription. I know that I
personally could easily see my way clear to fifty / sixty bucks
a year. I'm sure others could as well. This could provide long
term funding, as well.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/library.htm
------






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                         Re: They Drop Like a Rock!

From: Donnie W. Shevlin <dshevlin@primary.net>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 07:52:21 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:15:50 -0400
Subject: Re: They Drop Like a Rock!


>From: Mark LeCuyer <randydan@wavetech.net>
>To: "UFO UpDates Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: They Drop Like a Rock!
>Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 12:46:17 -0500

>Hello Everyone:)

>Can anyone enlighten me as to why two of the military jet crashes
>I've seen in the news over the last two years have video of them
>dropping straight down from the sky like a rock? If these jets
>were cruising along at their slowest possible speeds and
>malfunction, wouldn't physics dictate that they crash along a
>diagonal line of trajectory rather than vertically from the sky
>as a helicopter would?

>I may be wrong, but... I don't think so. This indicates that some
>form of antigravitics are in use on these craft. Would it really
>be of any surprise if that were the case? I still believe the
>black flying triangles are terrestrial military craft aided along
>by the help of extraterrestrial technology. Antigravity being one
>of the major advancements.

>Any logical comments, suggestions, ideas, reasons, etc... as to
>why they drop like a rock?

>From: Mark - Alien Astronomer
>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583


Mark, what are the two cases that you are referring too? I may
be able to explain.

If for any number of reasons the engine fails in a helicopters,
the pilot can disengage the engine from the rotor, allowing the
copter to gyro to earth.

When engine failure occurs for a short wing aircraft, especially
military fighters, and velocity is lost, a stall will surely
follow. Now, depending on how close that aircraft is to the
ground, will determine it's angle and rate of decent. Close to
the ground and you might as well punch out immediately. Impact
will almost be instantaneously.

Donnie :)

Disclaimer: The writer reserves the right to retract any portion of the
statement made above. Or just to say, "I didn't mean it that way..."






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                         Re: 'Paradigm Clock' Re-set

From: Diana Botsford <ddbh@email.msn.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 08:54:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:31:20 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Paradigm Clock' Re-set

>Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 19:27:52 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Paradigm Clock' Re-set

<snip>

>Jeff Rense has Clifford Stone scheduled for another interview
>on Sightings for Friday, July 31.  The previous interview is
>archived on Jeff's Sightings web site and can be heard anytime.

Cliff was a guest on the UFO Forum (http://forums.msn.com/ufo - see audio
archives) a few months ago as well.  According to Stone, the United States
government actively pursued the question of ET.  In addition to a slew of
documents that point towards active investigations on the part of the
government and military, Stone indicates in his audio interview that there
have been several crash retrievals and face to face encounters with various
species.



Diana Botsford
Publisher/Forum Manager
UFO Forum
http://forums.msn.com/ufo
- - - - - -
"To follow knowledge like a sinking star,
Beyond the utmost bound of human thought . .
To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield."
Tennyson's Ulysses






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                            Alfred's Odd Ode #259

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:23:40 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:57:00 -0400
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #259

Apology to MW #259 (For July 29, 1998)

My consciousness is just a mote -- it inhabits this machine that
I use for transportation in this life that's but a dream. It
gets out and does its roaming in a light speed plasma dance that
races in a bubble you might read if you've the chance. It's not
unfair advantage that it wishes to pursue. It's not
prevarication that it wants you to peruse. It is just
unvarnished singing of this monumental blues that we're made to
keep on wailing as we serve *convenient* use.

The sky is filled with *light* that I can see with open eyes.
I'm told by *God* to look away from what I should despise. The
world and my body are the stuff of Satan's lies? When this
_keeps_ the children starving, and it muffles up their cries!!!

People I respect are saying, "there's a light above." Not
meaning God or angel, but an ET sure enough. They send a cryptic
message we're not getting -- we don't try. If we got the cryptic
message ancient ways begin to die. This _keeps_ us in the dark;
we're not informed which way is up. Reacting to confusion we buy
in to vicious clubs!

. . . Science is a club with monstrous dues that must be paid --
in the name of best fidelity, but better points can often fade.
Science, treated like the be-all-end of what we should be
thinking when the scope of it is narrow, shallow, numbing, and
constricting.

And, yes I know it's fueled and fired our exponential rise! And
yes I know the wonder is so hard to criticize! And, yes I know
it's science that we _shan't_ give up for Lent -- but its light
is too distorted in its tiny two percent!

Unfettered with this tyranny we'd live in crisp new skies. We'd
fly to distant stars in spacious ships that we'd devise. Our
planet's made a garden, and we'd live upon our moon. We'd travel
with new elegance in our ships like huge balloons.

We'd taste satisfactions undreamed of  -- and how! The stress
would come off; we'd be happy -- right now! Our hate is so
pointless, destructive, and vile. In it's place is respect and a
tolerant smile. Status quo is the _devil_, only good for the
FEW; take a _chance_, at least _try_ what is offered up new!

The vistas are widening at perceptible speed, and the truth's
hard to hide as it gets hard to breath. There are asteroids
buzzing around all our heads. Not known's if they'll hit us, and
strike us all dead! Two million people, some famous, profound,
are abducted by saucers that land on their ground. Lights leap
and things flash in our day and night skies, and we are afraid
to ask questions, friend, why?

I say that I'd take it, what the truth may portend. I'd divest
any falsehood that fawns and pretends. I would give it all up in
the blink of an eye though my fortune was lost and alone I'm
decried. . .

But the truth, I am thinking, is the THINKING itself, to be
_paid_ for your labor though the rich give of self. To take a
deep breath and to know you live free, to lift up your face, to
get up from your knees! To leave all the worry of substance
behind, *stuff* is a given -- too _many_ deprived. It's why we
pay taxes -- not to fund corporate pork; not to pay for religion
-- not for stress when we work! The truth would demand a respect
that we'd feel, for a chance, or a way, to an honorable deal!
With no need to connive, or collude -- even steal, we'd embrace
one another, have respect, and be real.

My consciousness is just a mote -- but it knows this life's a
dream. To many it's a nightmare; it is futile, harsh, and mean.
And think of our embarrassment if it's shone we've misbehaved --
if  the watchers, truly watching, think us charmless, and
depraved.



Lehmberg@snowhill.com

We'd be MUCH better advised to conduct our business as if we
WERE being watched by a collection of  extraterrestrial
intelligences. Thieves don't break into cars if they think they
are being watched. The cookie jar remains unmolested if watched
by hidden eyes. You don't belch, fart, or masturbate in the dark
closet if you think there may be someone in there with you . . .
saves a _lot_ of embarrassment later on. It also limits
liability <g>.

Restore John Ford!


--
Explore the Alien View? <Updated 22 July>

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake.








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                         Re: They Drop Like a Rock!

From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:53:09 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:50:06 -0400
Subject: Re: They Drop Like a Rock!


>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 07:52:21 -0500
>From: Donnie W. Shevlin <dshevlin@primary.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: They Drop Like a Rock!

<snip>

> If for any number of reasons the engine fails in a helicopters,
>the pilot can disengage the engine from the rotor, allowing the
>copter to gyro to earth.

The correct term here is autorotate.

KRandle







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                               UFO Submersion

From: Greg St. Pierre <StrmNut@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:18:17 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:48:28 -0400
Subject: UFO Submersion

Dear list,

Several weeks ago I described a purported UFO submersion
here in Derry NH in the early seventies, and promised to get
hold of the articles. Here they are, and sorry for the wait. BTW,
this was on the front page.


From The Derry News
Thursday, October 4, 1973

UFO Sighting Unexplained

Several local residents and a motorist on Bypass 28 reported
seeing unidentified flying objects Tuesday evening about 8:00
near Rainbow Lake.

 _________________ of Spruce St. in Manchester told police that
he was driving along the Bypass when he saw a bright object in
the sky, hovering over Rainbow Lake. He went in closer to
investigate and heard something crash into the lake.

Several persons who live by the lake were outdoors at the time,
and say there were two objects moving in the air.

_______________ of Hilda Ave. saw the objects and described them
as "whitish yellow" in color.

A Mark Ave. resident who asked not to be identified, told police
that the objects were "about the size of a steering wheel."
Other witnesses also said the objects were two to three feet in
diameter, but several asked not to be identified.

The two objects descended towards the lake, according to the
witnesses. Then one of them fell straight down and and splashed
into the water, creating ripples on the shore. The other soared
upwards and vanished.

The East Derry Fire Rescue Squad lowered a boat and searched the
lake for two hours, but no trace of a fallen object was
discovered.

Police have received over 40 calls concerning the UFO sighting.
They speculate that the objects were meteorites or military
paraflares.  Swamp gas is also considered a possibility.

A followup appeared the following week:

Thursday, October 11, 1973

UFO Divers Strike Out

At the request of Chief _______________, two divers descended
into Rainbow Lake Friday afternoon in an attempt to resolve
reports of an unidentified flying object that three witnesses
claim splashed into the lake on Oct. 2. (My note: Ray Fowler
talked to more than twenty witnesses later.)

The divers swept the silty lake water with powerful
searchlights, but their vision was impaired by the murky water,
and they could not see more than a few inches ahead at any time.

Said one of the divers, "The only way they're going to get
anything out of that lake is if they drag it."

Chief ________ said he has no plans to drag the bottom and
considers the matter closed.


I have deleted the names because I have to live in this town,
and I'd rather not have a lot of people getting harassed thanks
to me. If any serious researchers would like to discreetly
reopen the case, please contact me and we can discuss it.

Greg
Strmnut@aol.com







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              UK UFO Conference - Cornwall U.F.O Research Group

From: Raine & Crow <crow@crowman.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:45:32 GMT
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:07:36 -0400
Subject: UK UFO Conference - Cornwall U.F.O Research Group

The Cornwall UFO Conference is almost upon us!! See below for
further details:

C.U.F.O.R.G. Cornwall U.F.O Research Group
Presents
CONFERENCE 1998
Saturday 29th August 1998
TRURO COLLEGE (Lecture Theatre)
TRURO, Cornwall. UK

10:00am to 7:30pm
Doors open 9:30am

The SPEAKERS are:

TONY JAMES (Life in the Universe)
MARK HAYWOOD (Extraterrestrials)
REG PRESLEY (U.F.O/Crop Circles)
MATTHEW WILLIAMS (Underground Bases)
JONATHAN DOWNES (Chupacabras)
PAUL DAMON (U.F.O Phenomenon)

All Tickets =A310.00
Entry by ticket only
For further information contact Dave Gillham on (01872) 276381

Or write to:

Dave Gillham
24 Carrine Road
Truro
Cornwall
TR1 3XB
UK








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                      '_Have_ to Believe' Investigating

From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:09:12 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 23:45:57 -0400
Subject: '_Have_ to Believe' Investigating

Is the following common amongst UFO groups? if so, then this is
a very sad situation.

Earlier this year I was elected onto staff with a London UFO
group. One of the other staff members rang me and told me that
all the other UFO groups were using the wrong ET contact
methods. The person who called me said that the ETs had told him
this. What a way to start with a new group, but I thought things
may get better.

I was contacted and asked whether I wanted to go on an
investigation in Norfolk as someone there was claiming to be
able to summon lights at the bottom of his garden and
communicate with them. I agreed to join the investigation and
was obviously sceptical of the claims being made. Originally we
were having to meet the person away from his house as he didn't
want just anyone turning up, but apparently he asked the lights
at the bottom of the garden if we were ok and allegedly they
said we could meet him at his house.

That weekend we made our way to the subjects house and met with
the family involved with the mysterious lights at the bottom of
the garden. We were able to question them on the source of the
lights and it was found that it was house lights that were
signalling to the subject. The owners of the house hadn't been
contacted as they were elderly. We weren't allowed to see the
end of the garden in daylight so hung around until it was
getting dark. Eventually we were led to the bottom of the garden
where binoculars were required to cover the distance over the
paddock at the bottom of the garden to see the farm house lights
at the back.

We were told that soon there would be lights in the farm house
windows, and shortly afterwards lights were seen moving across
the windows. We were informed that the lights were in fact
manifestations of ETs. Following was a question and answer
session where "yes" or "no" answer questions were asked,
incidentally each question had to be followed by "please". There
was one question which paraphrased was "are the UFO group and
the subject being visited by the same ETs?", the answer was
inevtibaly "yes". The means for determining a "yes" or "no" was
sketchy and without the guidance of the subject would be almost
undeterminable.

Following the question and answer session came the daily garden
walk for the light beings. We were told exactly where the light
would move around the garden, and one or two of the group saw a
glowing figure moving about.

After the garden show we then watched a few hours of video. This
video included landed craft behind a hedge which comprised of
flashing yellow lights. Unfortunately the actual landing and
take-off of the craft were not caught on camera. Also seen were
numerous aircraft that flew over the subjects house which were
described as cloaked ET craft mapping out the area. I only saw
conventional aircraft. The video clips shown were less than
impressive of anything unexplained.

In the early hours of the morning we headed home and the hype
was quite high that some strange event had happened in the
garden. A discussion took place that the ETs could be in the
room with us and we wouldn't know about it. When we moved into
the hall way I stumbled accross a "cold spot" just outside the
room we had been sitting in. As the others in the room began to
move into the hall way I moved out of the "cold spot" and asked
the person standing where I was if they could feel it. They
could and suddenly everyone felt a cold breeze moving around
them. This was surely a sign that we were not alone, however a
short glance up at the ceiling explained the event. It was their
loft hatch expelling a cold breeze, but of course the scene had
been set alot earlier in the day for ETs and ghostly happenings
for anyone to look for the more down to earth explanations.

Well to me the whole saga was highly questionable, however my
sceptical review of the day left me out in the cold. I was
unable to investigate the case any further because I didn't
believe it to be genuine ET contact. Surely, with a balanced
opinion on the case and looking at the case from both angles
would bring out the truth. However, I understand now that those
who believe it to be genuine et contact _have_ to believe it or
the ETs will no longer contact them. How sad.

I am no longer involved with the UFO group in question, and
wondered whether this is the standard set by other investigators
and UFO groups. Do you _have_ to believe what you are
investigating is real or are sceptics allowed a look-in in
UFOlogy?

My feeling is that sceptics and hardened believers should be
allowed to mix and review cases. This way a balanced view of the
phenomenon can be gained and the facts can emerge.

Any comments?

Yours, Tony





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                         Re: They Drop Like a Rock!

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:25:20 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 23:50:04 -0400
Subject: Re: They Drop Like a Rock!


>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:53:09 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: They Drop Like a Rock!

>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 07:52:21 -0500
>>From: Donnie W. Shevlin <dshevlin@primary.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: They Drop Like a Rock!

><snip>

>>If for any number of reasons the engine fails in a helicopters,
>>the pilot can disengage the engine from the rotor, allowing the
>>copter to gyro to earth.

>The correct term here is autorotate.

>KRandle

. . .And, the pilot is _not_ involved with the disengagement; it
is completly automatic for an operator that cannot be counted
upon to react quickly enough to maintain a minimum safe rotor
RPM. . .

Low rotor warning screaming in your ear, you COUNT the blades
with sweat blinded eyes as they go by . . . Dropping like that
rock. Get _there_ and call on an armful of nothing . . . the
collective pitch becomes a useless pumping stick,  the ground
rushes up to smile the skids, and push the top half of your neck
up into your brain -- I laughingly add two more cents. What WAS
this thread about anyway?

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

Restore John Ford!

--
Explore the Alien View? <Updated 22 July>

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake.








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              Re: Catalog of Levelland concentration, Nov 1957

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:03:10 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 23:55:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Catalog of Levelland concentration, Nov 1957


>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@IX.NETCOM.COM>
>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 00:07:03 -0400
>Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 07:25:20 -0400
>Subject: P-1947 Re: Catalog of Levelland concentration, Nov 1957

>One of the most interesting things about Levelland is how much
>information can be gleaned from nothing more than press
>accounts. We have witnesses who see the metallic skin of the UFO
>through the luminosity, we have a correlation between the
>brightness of the UFO and the presence of the effect. We have an
>apparent look at the side and the front of the UFO. We have
>witnesses right in front of the object and witnesses at various
>distances. We have a description of ammeter behavior during the
>event. We have an engine restart without human intervention. If
>only there had been a real investigation!

Another interesting thing about Levelland is that we now know
how to replicate the reported physical effects. High intensity
radio frequency pulses will stall cars, and also create
sensations of heat if you get in the way. It is clear from a
recent report from the A.F. Scientific Advisory Board published
on the Web that such a weapon is currently in the A.F. arsenal
awaiting future deployment.

One famous report of such effects came from James Stokes, a
rocket engineer at White Sands. He reported cars being stalled
in N.M. by a similar or same object (two days after Levelland)
and a "wave of heat" associated with it. The Lorenzens also
reported that Stokes seemed to have some sort of heat rash when
he came and reported the incident to them.

While the A.F. tried to debunk these sightings 40 years ago,
obviously some of the Air Force people were taking notes and
realized this would make a lovely weapon. Robert Loftin of NICAP
later reported this rather interesting quote from the El Paso
Texas Times, Nov. 7, 1957:  "Some of the nation's top scientists
are 'pretty shook up' about the mysterious flying objects
sighted in New Mexico and West Texas skies this week," said
Charles Capen (a scientist at White Sands). "This is something
that hasn't happened before."

Apparently they were shook up, but then settled down and
eventually figured out how to duplicate some of the effects.

I'd love to see the arrogant PSH'ers who regularly post here try
to attribute such now lab-reproducible physical effects to their
standard hallucinations and social hysteria. And remember --
first came the eyewitness reports of cars stalling, heat, etc.
from places like Levelland, then much later came the weapon, not
the other way around. The witnesses weren't contaminated by what
they saw on "X-files."

>The main thing I wish we had was a higher level of certainty on
>the size of the object. With the typically estimated 200 foot
>length, and the elliptical shape, the object would have to be
>somewhere between fifty and a hundred feet in vertical diameter
>at the center. This is truly an awesome object, possibly close
>to the scale of that in some of the satellite object / cloud
>cigar cases - yet the object is reported as having exceptional
>performance, and making near landings. One might profitably use
>the density of an aircraft applied to an object of such a size
>to get an idea as to how much thrust might be required to attain
>the reported performance.

>For instance, realize that at the reported dimensions, the size
>of the Levelland object is comparable to a C5A Starlifter. This
>implies a weight of between a quarter million and three quarters
>of a million pounds.

In the absence of further information, this is certainly a very
reasonable starting point. However, typically half or more of
such an aircraft's weight is devoted to fuel and payload. This
is unlikely to be the case with a UFO, which doubtlessly does
not use jetfuel as an energy source, nor is concerned with
delivering heavy payloads from points A to B. Furthermore, I
would expect such a high-performance craft to be using advanced
materials which are of greater strength and lighter in weight
than what we typically use in building our aircraft. This is all
speculative, yet I think reductions in overall mass by factors
of 3 or 4 are not unreasonable. This would lessen the energy
demands on the propulsion system considerably. But for now,
let's stick with Mark's higher estimate. Thus, the numbers
computed below likely represent more of a worst-case scenario.

>If the object rose 200 feet in 3 seconds
>(one possible estimate of "rose swiftly"), the acceleration
>would be 3 gravities and the speed at the end of the three
>seconds would be 240 mph.

Unfortunately there are some math errors here. The acceleration
would be given by 2*distance/time^2 or 2*200/3^2 = ~ 44
ft/sec^2. This is about 1.3 g, not 3g. The speed would be
acceleration * time = 44 * 3 sec = 132 ft/sec = 90 mph. This all
points to much more relaxed demands on the propulsion system
than in Mark's calculation.

>The thrust required would seem to require T=mag= 48,300,000 lbs
>of thrust at a 500,000 lb weight (assuming no drag and no
>losses). This is eight times the thrust >of a Saturn V rocket.

Fortunately, the required thrust isn't not anywhere near this
bad. The math is as follows:

Net accelerating force = Thrust - Weight

or

Thrust = Net accel force + Weight

or

Thrust = Ma + Mg = M (a + g) = Weight/g (a + g) = Weight (a/g + 1)

Here   M = Mass of the craft
            g = gravitational acceleration
            a = acceleration of craft = 1.3 g

So Thrust = Weight (1.3 + 1 ) = 2.3 * Weight = 2.3 * 500,000 lb
= ~1.2 million pounds

The main error in Mark's calculation was assuming the mass and
the weight were the same, which led to the calculated thrust
being 32 times greater than it should have been. (Note: actually
mass in English units = weight/32, expressed in the horrific
English unit, the "slug."  Slugs plus PSH'ers and English food
are not the among the high points of British civilization.)

Thus the required thrust is about 1/5th of a Saturn's, not 8
times as much (whew!). On the other hand, it's still about 6
times greater than the maximum thrust of a 747. Larger jet
engines, however, can put out about 100,000 pounds thrust each,
or roughly double that  of a 747. Nonetheless you would still
need about a dozen such engines to duplicate the performance.
This would be somewhat daunting from a engineering standpoint,
but still doable. On the other hand, had we assumed a much
lighter weight UFO, as outlined above, the required thrust might
be only 50 to 100% greater than a 747, which becomes very
managable. In fact, all we have to do to meet this requirement
would be to substitute the larger jet engines for the 747's
standard ones.

> No wonder this UFO was occasionally heard
> to emit sound - but still, where was this terrific level of
> energy emitted, since no effects on the ground were discovered,
> other than mild heating? In fact, with those energy levels, if
> the Levelland object were a rocket, one would expect a large
> portion of the town to have been vaporized.

Since the calculation was in error, this wouldn't be the case. Still we have
to deal with the problem of energy dispersal from the rough equivalent of six
747's (in the more conservative or worst-case estimate) taking off at the same
time.

One difference between a jet engine (or rocket) and a UFO is
that a jet engine confines the thrust to a relatively narrow
area, whereas a UFO may ionize a large mass of air around it and
thus spread it's thrust over a much greater area. Thus the
thrust per unit area (pressure) might be considerably less than
that of a jet engine.

E.g., the exhaust ports of those dozen large jet engines of
100,000 pounds thrust each would cover, say,1000 square feet of
area total (very roughly), or 1200 pounds thrust per square foot
for the 1.2 million pounds thrust total. In comparison, lets say
the ionized air beneath the Levelland UFO occupied an area
comparable to the footprint of the craft itself, or very roughly
10,000 square feet. The same thrust is spread over an area 10
times greater, so the thrust per square foot drops to 120
pounds.

If the ionized air "footprint" was  four times the figure used
above, or 40,000 square feet (this assumes the region of
effective ionization is double the dimensions of the craft
itself), then the thrust/area drops to a very gentle 30 pounds
per square foot, or double atmospheric pressure. (And for a UFO
of 1/3rd the mass of the worst-case above, this drops to a
"miniscule" 10 pounds per square foot.)

Heating effects are also dramatically reduced because the energy
is spread over a much greater volume. The hypothesized air
ionization or plasma around the craft which is used as part of
it's EM propulsion system wouldn't be very hot to begin with.
Although plasmas can have very hot electron temperatures (on the
order of 20,000 deg. K), the electrons hold very little heat
because of their low mass. On the other hand, the ionized
positive ions, primarily nitrogen, would be responsible for most
of the heat content of the plasma because of their very high
mass compared to the free electrons, yet have a relatively low
actual gas temperature (on the order of only 300 deg. K, room
temperature, or maybe a little hotter) because of their
comparatively low speed. This is one reason why a fluorescent
tube, itself holding a glowing plasma, is only a little warm to
the touch. The kinetic energy of the electrons inside make them
"hot" as blazes, but most of the heat resides in the sluggish,
heavy rarefied gas.

How much would the air heat up as the UFO takes off and
accelerates upward? The Levelland UFO is dumping it's energy
into a very large volume, so air heating is relatively minor. A
little calculation shows that the combined kinetic plus
potential energy of a 500,000 lb craft rising 200 feet to an air
speed of 90 mph is roughly 300 million joules. If an equal
amount of energy was dumped into the ionized column of air this
craft passes through (assuming the smaller 10,000 sq. foot
footprint but now 200 feet high) the total volume of air
affected would be roughly 2 million cubic feet. This contains
about 2.5 million mole of nitrogen/oxygen gas, which when
multiplied by the univeral gas constant (8.3 joules/mole/deg K)
gives a net heat capacity of roughly 20 million joules/deg K.
Thus the column of air would be raised in temperature by 300
million/ 20 million or only about 15 deg Celius, or 27 deg
Fahrenheit. And of course, the average heating of the air would
be only 1/4 of this if the actual ionization footprint was four
times the area of UFO footprint itself, and even less than that
if the craft was of much lower mass than assumed in the
calculation. These are very rough numbers, but again demonstrate
that the good people of Levelland were probably in no danger of
being fried. It's a much different situation than standing in
back of a jet engine with its very hot, high speed gases rushing
out. UFOs have "kinder and gentler" propulsion.

>This, in a nutshell, is the core of the UFO as a technological problem.

Mark, I think if you look at the problem using the numbers
above, the required technology doesn't become so daunting.

I would like to add here that I consider Mark Cashman to be a
very serious researcher, and I've enjoyed his very thoughtful
and intelligent posts in the past. I hope he isn't upset at
having some mistakes pointed out. I totally agree with Mark that
a great deal about the physics of the UFOs can be deduced by
careful examination of the reports. I am very greatful to his
past work in this regard, such as the energy output as deduced
from luminosity reports.

One of the reasons I wrote this post correcting some of Mark's
numbers is I didn't want to give the scientifically illiterate
debunkers who regularly post here additional ammunition with
which to dismiss the UFO phenomenon. UFOs don't need some
pie-in-the-sky, gee-whiz Star Trek Sci-Fi dilithium crystal
technology to do many of the things they are reported as doing.
'Nuff said for now.

David Rudiak






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   Jul > Jul 30

                            Article On Linda Howe

From: Stig Agermose <Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 02:14:24 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:27:41 -0400
Subject: Article On Linda Howe


>From the Idaho Statesman via the Spokesman Review/Spokane.net. URL:

http://www.spokane.net:80/news-story-body.asp?Date=072698&ID=s426561


Stig


*******


Spokesman Review/Spokane.net


Journalist Finds Herself Captured By Aliens


Search for facts leads Boise High grad to investigate
unexplained phenomena, write several books


Marianne Flagg - The Idaho Statesman


BOISE _ Where others see unfathomable mysteries or
supermarket-tabloid fodder, Linda Moulton Howe sees a great
story in need of an ending.

Howe has spent the past 19 years as an investigative journalist
trying to find hard evidence regarding unexplained phenomena.
They range from cattle mutilations and crop-circle formations to
UFO sightings and reports of human abduction by aliens.

Hundreds of interviews, an Emmy Award and three books later,
Howe is convinced of some truths she believes are out there.

"We are not alone in the universe, and the government of the
United States at least has known that since the 1940s, if not
earlier," said Howe, who now lives in Jamison, Pa. "Coming out
of the World War II environment, there was a decision by the
Truman administration that Americans and the world were not
going to get any facts about this extraterrestrial presence."

Some of Howe's latest interviews and research can be found in
her new 440-page book, "Glimpses of Other Realities, Vol. 2:
High Strangeness" (Paper Chase Press, New Orleans).

It's the second of her two volumes on unexplained phenomena.

Her latest book arrives at a time when interest in such
mysteries and belief in alien visitation pervade popular
culture. Fox TV's "The X-Files" series has brought the murky
subjects of aliens, government conspiracy and other mysteries
into American living rooms every week.

"The X-Files" even has incorporated some of Howe's research into
its scripts.

Howe also contributes weekly reports on science and the
environment, as well as alien mysteries, on Art Bell's popular
nightly radio program "Coast to Coast," and his Sunday show
"Dreamland."

Idaho's own X-Files can be found in the field research of Ike
Bishop, chief investigator and Idaho state director of the
Mutual UFO Network, a group of people who investigate reports of
unexplained sightings.

Bishop has traded information with Howe and said he respects her
investigative ability.

"She is probably the most pre-eminent UFO investigator in the
world," Bishop said. "She checks things out before she talks
about them."

Although Howe might appreciate the compliment, she regards
herself as a TV producer and investigative reporter, not a UFO
investigator.

"My beat has basically been in science and medicine and the
environment my entire career," said Howe, who was born in Boise
56 years ago. "I had been producing television programs and
documentary films for 11 years before I ever made my first phone
calls to find out what was happening with unusual animal deaths
around the world."

Howe graduated from Boise High School in 1960. After a professor
sparked a love of English in college, she knew she wanted to be
a reporter. She has a master's degree from Stanford University
and has worked for television stations in Burbank, Calif.;
Boston; Denver; and Atlanta.

It was during her tenure in Denver in 1979 that she first
investigated reports of farm animals that were found with
internal organs removed in a strange, almost surgical manner.

"I had no preconceived idea of what I was getting into beyond
the fact that there were hundreds, if not thousands, of cases
all reporting the same bloodless excisions of cattle, pigs, cows
and sheep.

"The two most unusual features that law enforcement always noted
was the lack of blood in excisions that were cookie-cutter
precise, and that there were no tracks around these animals --
even on wet dirt. That's what forced law enforcement to look to
the sky."

Law enforcement personnel and scientists have been unable to
explain the technology used in the mutilations, or who or what
mutilated the animals.

Throughout her work on alien mysteries, she has struggled to get
sources on the record -- to use their full names. Fear of
ridicule keeps many silent. She says fear of government
retribution also keeps many military people quiet.

Howe wrote a book about the mutilations, "An Alien Harvest." She
went on to write about more alien mysteries in her book
"Glimpses of Other Realities, Vol. I."

Howe said she is not out to prove the existence of UFOs, but to
uncover facts.

Vol. 2 contains copies of purported government documents leaked
to her that admit the existence of aliens and confirm a
cover-up.

"We're talking about men and women who have served in highly
sensitive positions in the United States military and
intelligence agencies, with high clearances.

"These people are the same people who have talked to me and a
few others about the fact that our government has had knowledge
about extraterrestrial biological entities, and that Truman made
the executive order in 1947 that put all of this under a lid.

"This is a story the entire human family on this planet deserves
to have knowledge about."

*







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   Jul > Jul 30

               Strieber's 'Confirmation' Slated By Mainstream

From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 03:04:29 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:33:06 -0400
Subject: Strieber's 'Confirmation' Slated By Mainstream


>From CNN's site. URL:

http://cnn.com/books/reviews/9807/29/confirmation/index.html

Again I want to emphasize that this post in no way is meant as an
endorsement of the views that are voiced in the article.


Stig


*******


Strieber's exuberance falls short of proving there are UFOs


'Confirmation: The Hard Evidence of Aliens among Us'
By Whitley Strieber


Saint Martin's Press, $23.95


Review by L.D. Meagher


Web posted on: Wednesday, July 29, 1998 2:55:43 PM EDT


(CNN) -- There's something in the sky. There's something in my
room. There's something in my head. They must be connected.

That's the argument Whitley Strieber makes in "Confirmation",
his fifth book about extraterrestrial aliens. Its subtitle
summarizes his approach to the argument: "The Hard Evidence of
Aliens among Us".

Strieber's "hard evidence" comes from three different types of
experiences: sightings of unidentified objects in the sky,
stories of alien encounters or abductions, and objects removed
from the bodies of people who believe they have been abducted.
As he recounts each incident, he tries to reflect an air of
scientific detachment. He isn't necessarily arguing that all the
"evidence" he cites is proof that aliens walk among us. Instead,
he claims he is only marshalling arguments for a concentrated
research effort by the scientific community. His mask of
objectivity, however, refuses to remain in place.

Despite the author's exuberance, there's not much new to report
on the UFO sightings front. He offers new photographs of unusual
objects in the sky, mostly from Mexico. They have the familiar
look of earlier pictures. The objects are somewhat indistinct,
but clearly disc-shaped. Strieber asserts that they are more
authoritative, however, since they aren't mere photographs, but
images captured on videotape. There's even video from a space
shuttle mission which enthusiasts interpret as an apparent
attempt by earthlings to shoot down a UFO. He goes beyond
"flying saucer" imagery, too. He breathlessly recounts blurred
images of "rods" that inexplicably appear on videotapes shot in
the desert. Sometimes, these objects are captured on just a
single frame of the tape. Strieber doesn't offer any explanation
for these things. Instead, he insists the scientific
establishment must investigate them.

Since he published "Communion", his first-person account of an
alien abduction, Strieber has solicited letters from other
people who have had similar experiences. Not surprisingly, he
has received many. Some are recounted in "Confirmation". He
notes that there are similarities among the stories. He insists
each contains unique elements that separate it from the others.
Therefore, he argues, a lot of people are having different
experiences, and science should do something.

Then there are the objects removed from people's bodies. Despite
his facade of scientific detachment, Strieber calls them
"implants". He concentrates on a few cases in which the objects
have been surgically removed. Some of them are metallic, and
covered by a membrane. Others are non-metallic. One looks like
glass. A few of the metal objects and the piece of glass were
subjected to scientific analysis. It turns out they are made of
either metal or glass. Strieber concludes the metal is like that
found in meteorites and the glass is unlike any ever found on
Earth. The scientists who performed the analyses stop well short
of those conclusions. And they offer no suggestion that the
objects have any purpose. They aren't transmitters, or homing
beacons, or microchips containing the Encyclopedia Galactica.

It would be so much easier to understand, according to Strieber,
if only the government wasn't hiding the truth. "In this
society," he writes, "anybody who isn't at least somewhat
paranoid probably isn't entirely sane." The government conducted
secret mind control experiments, he reminds us. And the official
explanations of "The Roswell Incident" range from unconvincing
to absurd. Strieber concludes the government is hiding something
about alien encounters. And because the government funds so much
scientific research, the science establishment must be in on the
cover-up.

In the end, Strieber casts aside his pretense of detachment. He
is an advocate, on the side of those who have seen UFOs, been
abducted by aliens, and had extraterrestrial hardware implanted
in their bodies. All are the work of "visitors," he concludes.
The visitors may not be from another planet, but he's convinced
they exist. "The visitors may be at once tempting us with their
theater in the sky and forcing us into action by the outrageous
invasion of our bodies represented by close encounter. Whatever
they are doing, it seems clear they are not preparing for some
great event where they finally put in an overwhelming
appearance."

More than once, Strieber invokes the spirit of Carl Sagan, who
laid down the gauntlet by insisting proponents of alien
visitation offer some proof to back up their contentions.
Indeed, "Confirmation" seems to be Strieber's response to that
challenge. But Sagan did more than simply solicit offers of
evidence. He demanded they be scrutinized using what he called
the scientist's "baloney detection kit." It contains the tools
of skeptical thinking. As he explained in "The Demon-Haunted
World":

"What skeptical thinking boils down to is the means to
construct, and to understand, a reasoned argument and --
especially important -- to recognize a fallacious or fraudulent
argument. The question is not whether we like the conclusion
that emerges out of a train of reasoning, but whether the
conclusion follows from the premise or starting point and
whether that premise is true."

Strieber contends he is offering the evidence Sagan demanded. In
fact, he is offering anecdotes and artifacts for which several
interpretations exist, and disregarding all but those that
support his contention that "visitors" are here and doing
something to humans.

"Confirmation" offers nothing that will shake the faith of those
who are convinced Strieber is right. It also offers nothing that
will sway those who think he is wrong. In the end, it is a bit
like a religious faith. To non-believers, no proof is possible.
To believers, none is necessary.


L.D. Meagher is a News Editor at CNN Headline News. He has
worked in broadcasting for nearly 30 years.

Rev
=A9 1998 Cable News Network, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Terms under which this service is provided to you.
Read our privacy guidelines.






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 30

             Belgium Sightings: Discussion Summaries & Comments

From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 23:50:05 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 06:38:48 -0400
Subject: Belgium Sightings: Discussion Summaries & Comments

>From: The Duke of Mendoza - Peter Brookesmith
       <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:56:04 -0400
>Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:38:58 -0400
>Subject: Re: Triangular UFOs over Belgium

>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Triangular UFOs over Belgium
>>Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 11:53:17 -0400

>>>Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 11:05:29 -0700
>>>From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" <skytracker@geocities.com>
>>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>>Subject: Triangular UFOs over Belgium

Peter's correspondence re Serge and Kyle from above:
http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/jul/m22-004.shtml

>>The 1989 Belgium UFO flap was debated on the List last year.
>>The debate turned out to be the usual: skeptics on one side,
>>truth seekers on the other.

....snip....

>I suggest Kyle looks up the discussion of the Belgian flap on
>the Ufomind/UpDates Web archive (address below), where he will
>find "truth" seekers inventing such items as supersonic balloons
>and putting them into the mouths of skeptics. He will also find
>Mendoza saying he thought the evidence for there being an actual
>FT craft involved was inconclusive, and that little was proven
>one way or the other, or words to that effect.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

JC:   Unfortunately there was no URL below that would take us
directly to the file in question.

Notwithstanding, what we really need to do is find the essential
"data" of this case by getting to the core of discussions which
may contain same, and eliminating all the non-data type words
which tend to flow when one party or the other feels affronted
for various reasons.

Therefore, I have put together the following with this in mind.
(while providing the original URLs for Kyle and other readers to
peruse for accuracy checks, where necessary along the way) The
results of this entire proceeding can certainly be expanded upon
at a later date.


The information (data) I'm talking about in this instance is
what most of us _should_ be searching for and perhaps if we're
lucky, where some truly meaningful insights are most probably
waiting to be found.

For instance, we know some things that the objects recorded and
seen in the Belgium sightings "were not."

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

A response I had made to BRETT.OLBRYS who thought a video he
mentions reminded him of the AVRO Vulcan Bomber.

http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/mar/m28-019.shtml

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Loy Pressley, who has some familiarity w\ Vulcan Bomber, ruled
out that possibility. (The object descriptions given by various
witnesses do not really match the Vulcan)

http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/mar/m27-018.shtml

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

We know it wasn't a LoFlyte plane (if anyone was even thinking
this) because:

We have a discussion between Henny van der Pluijm and Jared
Anderson in another case where Jared feels a sighting may have
been the LoFlyte plane.

Henny says the object maneuvers recorded by the Belgium A.F. are
impossible to perform with the LoFlyte plane. This would apply
to the data from the Belgium sightings as well since the LoFlyte
could not have performed the maneuvers displayed in the data
supplied by the BAF.

http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/jun/m18-028.shtml

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Then, in a discussion between Christophe Meessen and Henny van
der Pluijm, Meessen states, without giving the exact name of
book, page reference, exact quote, etc. (BTW, these are
definitely necessary for us to have a proper discussion via
which _all_ can see the complete results of these discussions
and make their own fair assessment regarding same here on the
NET.):

Statements by Meessen:
1.      "..no triangular object reported where the F16 detected
the erratic signal."

2.  "...no ground visual contacts beside moving lights. Lights
were more in intense wobbling than moving fast from side to side
of the sky"

3. "It was though a very uncommon light behaviors which
suggested it was not stars. But lights did not show
extraordinary displacements as would the UFO speed estimation
based on the F16 recording yield."

4. "we HAVE TO drop the F16 data as EVIDENCE of the presence of a
UFO simply because it COULD be a natural phenomenon."

Post from which Meessen's statements were taken:
http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/nov/m17-016.shtml

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Rebuttal by Henny van der Pluijm citing specific points drawn
from the BAF report he provided in his post regarding previous
discussion:

1.  "Apparently there were several objects in the sky that were
     visually reported to be maneuvering during the F16 chase.

2.  "... consider that one or more of them had simply switched
     off their lights, which would explain their sudden
     disappearance, as described, as well as the erratic radar
     trace that cannot be explained by any known natural
     phenomenon or radar error?

3.  "What natural phenomenon produces a jamming signal? What
     natural phenomenon accelerates after radar lock through the
     sound barrier, making three 70 degree turns and on altitudes
     between 0 and 11,000 feet?

4.  "...analyses by Dr. James McDonald tell me that only heavy
     temperature inversions can influence radar signals.

These were the atmospheric conditions of the night:

'A slight temperature inversion at ground, and another, as
slight, at 3000 feet.'

And as you can see, these altitudes do not coincide with the
radar trace that I presented. So why is the temperature
inversion explanation brought up in the first place?

JC:   I'm assuming the references to temperature inversion were
from a previous discussion by these two gentlemen.

van der Pluijm rebuttal:
http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/nov/m17-026.shtml

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Jean-Pierre Pharabod had written (to Henny?)

> Reading the transcript
>of the conversation between the ground controller
>and the pilots, and scrutinizing the details of
>the locks as published in the first SOBEPS book,
>I concluded that it could be only locks number
>5 and 6 (Meessen's numerotation), lasting 8 and
>11.4 seconds. And this was very probably IMHO the
>craft flying in straight line from Brussels to
>Liege, at subsonic speed, and followed by the
>Glons and Semmerzake ground radars. But these
>echoes and this craft don't look extraterrestial,
>they don't have the "crazy" characteristics of
>the contact of which you reposted the transcript,
>they look like maybe a private jet flying
>illegally (no transponder). However the whole
>thing remains a bit mysterious

and Henny replied, after citing specific data on the contacts
(please see URL immediately below this section)

"This contact excerpt clearly shows simultaneous radar contact.
It also shows erratic moves that cannot be explained by any
terrestrial aircraft or natural phenomenon."

"Although the above maneuvers could not be witnessed visually
from the ground, the Glons radar had picked up the signal
earlier while the gendarmes were watching the objects in the
sky."

                             . . .

"Nowhere in the reports is there any mention that the Glons radar
lost contact with the objects. The Glons radar did direct the
F16s to the target. In other words, the same objects that were
seen by the gendarmes were later detected by F16 radar AND Glons
radar and showed the erractic signal."

"In other words, there is no need to dismiss the F16 radar
recordings as evidence."

Post w\data & previous conversation suppied by van der Pluijm:
http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/nov/m18-012.shtml

JC:   Readers can draw their own conclusions. I agree with Henny.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

So from all this we know:

1) If the objects seen were not UFOs, the Belgium A.F., part of
    the NATO chain must really be incompetent not to know what
    they were chasing; so incompetent that they went public with
    this information and talked about it openly after it went up
    the chain of command.

2) Some objects seen in the Belgium sightings look a little like
the AVRO Vulcan Bomber except that:

  a)  The Vulcan Bomber is very "loud" aircraft and much if not
      all of what was seen in Belgium was silent.
  b)  Loy doesn't remember lights positioned on the bomber that
       compare with what was seen and photographed
  c)  The bomber is heavy and designed for high speed flight and
       can't fly very slowly as some of the objects seen in
       several instances re Belgium.

3) LoFlyte plane is eliminated as a possibility because it can't
do the maneuvering recorded and published by the Belgian A.F.

4) Temperature inversions are eliminated via James McDonald's
analyses.

And Henny asks:

    a)  "What natural phenomenon produces a jamming signal?

    b)  "What natural phenomenon accelerates after radar lock
         through the sound barrier, making three 70 degree turns
         and on altitudes between 0 and 11,000 feet?

JC:    If skeptics have no solid answer to this then the
probability that the sighting was not a natural phenomenon must
certainly be considered. Not to do so would be to ignore the
data presented for our consideration.

So then, exactly what was it? A black project? Laser projections
that can fool ground/air radar and the men flying the planes?
The technology seems to have jumped a bit here.

Respectfully,
Jerry Cohen

 Author: Oberg/Cooper rebuttals
Website: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/
UFOmind: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/c/cohen/


P.S.    I'd like to peruse those discussions concerning the
Belgium sightings that Peter mentioned at the outset of this
post. Does anyone have the URL?   Thanks.









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   Jul > Jul 30

                    Re: '_Have_ to Believe' Investigating

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 01:58:33 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 06:50:31 -0400
Subject: Re: '_Have_ to Believe' Investigating

> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:09:12 -0400
> From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com>
> Subject: _Have_ to Believe Investigating
> Sender: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com>
> To: "updates@globalserve.net" <updates@globalserve.net>

> My feeling is that sceptics and hardened believers should be
> allowed to mix and review cases. This way a balanced view of the
> phenomenon can be gained and the facts can emerge.

> Any comments?

Tony -

Any investigator who isn't initially skeptical isn't very mature.
70%-90% of all initial reports end up identified by reliable
investigators.

Honestly, I don't want to see "believers" doing investigations.

If someone believes, why investigate, since they know? If one
doesn't know, that's when one wants to investigate.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/library.htm
------







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              Re: Catalog of Levelland concentration, Nov 1957

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 01:48:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 06:49:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Catalog of Levelland concentration, Nov 1957

> From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:03:10 EDT
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: Catalog of Levelland concentration, Nov 1957

> >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@IX.NETCOM.COM>
> >Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 00:07:03 -0400
> >Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 07:25:20 -0400
> >Subject: P-1947 Re: Catalog of Levelland concentration, Nov 1957

Right up front, I want to publicly thank David for taking my rather
poorly done back of the envelope and far from expert estimates and
turning them into something far more useful. It's a great example
of how we can work together to go from a mysterious happening
to getting some real quantitative estimates.

Thanks, David!

> > One might profitably use
> >the density of an aircraft applied to an object of such a size
> >to get an idea as to how much thrust might be required to attain
> >the reported performance.

> >For instance, realize that at the reported dimensions, the size
> >of the Levelland object is comparable to a C5A Starlifter. This
> >implies a weight of between a quarter million and three quarters
> >of a million pounds.

> In the absence of further information, this is certainly a very
> reasonable starting point. However, typically half or more of
> such an aircraft's weight is devoted to fuel and payload. This
> is unlikely to be the case with a UFO, which doubtlessly does
> not use jetfuel as an energy source, nor is concerned with
> delivering heavy payloads from points A to B. Furthermore, I
> would expect such a high-performance craft to be using advanced
> materials which are of greater strength and lighter in weight
> than what we typically use in building our aircraft. This is all
> speculative, yet I think reductions in overall mass by factors
> of 3 or 4 are not unreasonable.

I agree with David that these are not unreasonable. At the same
time, one must wonder why so huge an object is necessary unless
its internal volume is at least largely utilized. So while there
is no question that such materials as he suggests could be used
to reduce airframe weight, it is still likely that a large
vehicle would be efficiently utilized to carry heavy payload of
some sort.

After all, our aircraft materials and engineering are probably a
factor or 3 or 4 lighter than those used in, say, DC-3s or heavy
piston fighters of the WW-II era, but we have used those
advances to increase payload, armament, or performance.

What requires a Levelland-size object to engage in roadblock
activities remains a mystery.

>This would lessen the energy
>demands on the propulsion system considerably. But for now,
>let's stick with Mark's higher estimate. Thus, the numbers
>computed below likely represent more of a worst-case scenario.

Note that Hill's estimate of the density of the Quarouble object
suggests that object was significantly denser than an aircraft,
and was, in fact, closer to the density of a submarine (96% as
dense as water).

On the other hand, the Socorro object density seems to be
significantly less than that - resting somewhere between 20% and
51% that of water, thus between 1/5 and 1/2 the density of the
Quarouble object.

Also note that the low limit Starlifter weight of 250,000 lbs is
close to empty weight, since operational weight is 337,937 and
max takeoff is 769,000.

David - if you have the time, perhaps you can run the numbers
for the Socorro and Quarouble densities, and give us an idea of
how they relate to the C5A numbers.

>>If the object rose 200 feet in 3 seconds
>>(one possible estimate of "rose swiftly"), the acceleration
>>would be 3 gravities and the speed at the end of the three
>>seconds would be 240 mph.

>Unfortunately there are some math errors here. The acceleration
>would be given by 2*distance/time^2 or 2*200/3^2 = ~ 44
>ft/sec^2. This is about 1.3 g, not 3g. The speed would be
>acceleration * time = 44 * 3 sec = 132 ft/sec = 90 mph. This all
>points to much more relaxed demands on the propulsion system
>than in Mark's calculation.

David is quite right about this. I accidentally used 500 feet
instead of 200 feet and thus inflated the acceleration and final
speed. (what an idiot! slaps head... :-)

>>The thrust required would seem to require T=mag= 48,300,000 lbs
>>of thrust at a 500,000 lb weight (assuming no drag and no
>>losses). This is eight times the thrust >of a Saturn V rocket.

>Fortunately, the required thrust isn't not anywhere near this
>bad. The math is as follows:

<snip>

>The main error in Mark's calculation was assuming the mass and
>the weight were the same, which led to the calculated thrust
>being 32 times greater than it should have been. (Note: actually
>mass in English units = weight/32, expressed in the horrific
>English unit, the "slug." Slugs plus PSH'ers and English food
>are not the among the high points of British civilization.)

Not to mention doubling the acceleration. Thank goodness for
peer review. I also had a hard time finding a good thrust
equation, which shows the need for better references in this
library. At least now I have a spreadsheet that works, so I
won't make this mistake again.

>Still we have to deal with the problem of energy dispersal
>from the rough equivalent of six 747's (in the more
>conservative or worst-case estimate) taking off at the same
>time. One difference between a jet engine (or rocket) and a
>UFO is that a jet engine confines the thrust to a relatively
>narrow area, whereas a UFO may ionize a large mass of air
>around it and thus spread it's thrust over a much greater area.
>Thus the thrust per unit area (pressure) might be considerably
less than that of a jet engine.

This is where I believe we have to be very cautious. I am not
sure of what evidence might be construed to indicate the
dispersal of thrust through ionization. I'd be interested in
hearing from David which cases suggest this to him and why. I am
bothered by the apparent ability of the UFO to hover and to
accelerate without luminosity when considering this idea.

Still, the idea that the thrust is spread over a large area has
great merit. It may very well be that there are limitations on
this which are signaled by the presence of the sound from the
usually soundless object, a problem which also crops up with the
Socorro case.

>If the ionized air "footprint" was four times the figure used
>above, or 40,000 square feet (this assumes the region of
>effective ionization is double the dimensions of the craft
>itself), then the thrust/area drops to a very gentle 30 pounds
>per square foot, or double atmospheric pressure. (And for a UFO
>of 1/3rd the mass of the worst-case above, this drops to a
>"miniscule" 10 pounds per square foot.)

We need to take a look at the expected "breeze" from a 2 atm UFO
force effect. Does this conform to the observations in cases
such as Flynn and Moreland?

>How much would the air heat up as the UFO takes off and
>accelerates upward? The Levelland UFO is dumping it's energy
>into a very large volume, so air heating is relatively minor. A
>little calculation shows that the combined kinetic plus
>potential energy of a 500,000 lb craft rising 200 feet to an air
>speed of 90 mph is roughly 300 million joules.

May we assume this is for a case without atmospheric drag? If
so, what effect would we get from, say 25-50% surface area drag
levels, making the assumption, justified by a variety of
reports, that the UFO has the ability to ensure clean airflow,
but perhaps cannot eliminate all drag.

>If an equal
>amount of energy was dumped into the ionized column of air this
>craft passes through (assuming the smaller 10,000 sq. foot
>footprint but now 200 feet high) the total volume of air
>affected would be roughly 2 million cubic feet. This contains
>about 2.5 million mole of nitrogen/oxygen gas, which when
>multiplied by the univeral gas constant (8.3 joules/mole/deg K)
>gives a net heat capacity of roughly 20 million joules/deg K.
>Thus the column of air would be raised in temperature by 300
>million/ 20 million or only about 15 deg Celius, or 27 deg
>Fahrenheit. And of course, the average heating of the air would
>be only 1/4 of this if the actual ionization footprint was four
>times the area of UFO footprint itself, and even less than that
>if the craft was of much lower mass than assumed in the
>calculation.

I think we can consider a few possibilities.

First, the heat effects would seem to be the greatest with the
air column at its shortest, which predicts ground heating
disproportionate with the temperature change experienced by
witnesses. This is because the witnesses don't experience the
heat either until the object has attained enough altitiude for
the heated column to begin to disperse, or until they are within
the "cone" of the force footprint.

>These are very rough numbers, but again demonstrate
>that the good people of Levelland were probably in no danger of
>being fried. It's a much different situation than standing in
>back of a jet engine with its very hot, high speed gases rushing
>out. UFOs have "kinder and gentler" propulsion.

>>This, in a nutshell, is the core of the UFO as a technological
>>problem.

>Mark, I think if you look at the problem using the numbers
>above, the required technology doesn't become so daunting.

Yes, in many ways I agree. However, the accelerations reported
(though unfortunately not really usable in estimates) by Saucedo
and other witnesses indicate that the Levelland object may have
been capable of the same 100G plus accelerations estimated from
Hill's large cigar sighting, or at least the 18G acceleration I
calculate for the Marignane object.

>I would like to add here that I consider Mark Cashman to be a
>very serious researcher, and I've enjoyed his very thoughtful
>and intelligent posts in the past. I hope he isn't upset at
>having some mistakes pointed out. I totally agree with Mark that
>a great deal about the physics of the UFOs can be deduced by
>careful examination of the reports. I am very greatful to his
>past work in this regard, such as the energy output as deduced
>from luminosity reports.

As I am grateful to David for correcting my work when it is in
error. In contrast to the kind of backbiting that occurs when
all we have are qualitative information on the table, using real
data to generate real estimates means that right and wrong are
quite clearly defined, and when an error is corrected, we all
know and can all benefit from it.

>One of the reasons I wrote this post correcting some of Mark's
>numbers is I didn't want to give the scientifically illiterate
>debunkers who regularly post here additional ammunition with
>which to dismiss the UFO phenomenon. UFOs don't need some
>pie-in-the-sky, gee-whiz Star Trek Sci-Fi dilithium crystal
>technology to do many of the things they are reported as doing.

That's quite true - and in fact, the witnesses themselves are
often in error, even when technically trained, as to the
performance of the object. For instance, in the Apr 12, 1950
Captain Robert Adickes and co-pilot Robert Manning case, the
reference, (Spencer, UFO Encyclopedia, ISBN 0-380-76887-9, p 4)
indicated that the object would have to be unmanned due to the
doubling of speed within a certain interval. My calculation,
however, indicates that, based on the witness statements, the
object accelerated at less than 1G.

We also need to keep our technological conservatism balanced by
an understanding of reasonable and expected advances - such as
David indicated concerning material weight and strength, and, of
course, thrust to weight ratios. What, for instance, would a
Model T owner make of a modern dragster? Or could the Wright
brothers expect their kite to become the massive and powerful
Starlifter?

UFOs definitely don't use conventional technologies to work, but
the way to understand the UFO is to apply standard techniques to
generate reasonable estimates from witness data, and to suggest
reasonable error limits. From that basis, we can build something
more solid than sand castles. It's good to find guys like David
Rudiak out here on the beach.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/library.htm
------







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   Jul > Jul 30

                          Re: CUFORG Conference '98

From: Ian J. Darlington <webmaster@interweb-design.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:24:44 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 06:53:01 -0400
Subject: Re: CUFORG Conference '98


Cornwall U.F.O. Research Group Presents Conference '98.

Saturday 29th August 1998
Truro College Lecture Theatre, Truro, Cornwall, UK.

10.00am to 7.30pm - Doors Open 9.30am

Guest Speakers:

Tony James - Life in The Universe

Mark Haywood - Extra-terrestrials

Reg Presley - UFOs/Crop Circles

Mathew Williams - Underground Bases

Jonathan Downs - The Chupacabras

Paul Damon - The UFO Phenomenon

Tickets - =A310.00 (=A38.50 if booked before 1st August 1998)

Limited number of tickets - Book now to avoid disappointment
Entry by ticket only.
Further details & booking: Dave Gillham +44 (0) 1872 276381
mailto:cuforg@interweb-design.co.uk

Seen our Web site? http://www.interweb-design.co.uk/cuforg/









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                 Somewhere Out There, Vital Signs Await Nasa

From: Mark LeCuyer <randydan@wavetech.net>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 04:32:18 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 06:56:01 -0400
Subject: Somewhere Out There, Vital Signs Await Nasa


From: Mark - Alien Astronomer
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583

Source: FLORIDA TODAY Space Online
July 29, 1998

Somewhere out there, vital signs await NASA
By Elizabeth Weise
Gannett News Service

WASHINGTON - The search for the origins of life in the universe
is just starting to pick up speed.

Between now and 2006, NASA will send out probes to sample
comet, asteroid and star dust, Martian soil, and a gust of
solar wind particles.

Other missions will send back information about their
destinations, from Jupiter's icy moon Europa to the primordial
nebula that formed our solar system 4.5 billion years ago.

"Basically, we've got rides to all the places of interest to
start piecing together the chain of events behind the origins
of life," says Lynn Harper, head of NASA's astrobiology
program.

Where and how to look for those origins - and perhaps examples
of extraterrestrial life - are the questions NASA put to a
group of leading scientists who met for three days last week at
the NASA/Ames Research Center at Moffett Field in California.

Their goal was to start mapping a five-year plan for the space
agency's emerging astrobiology program. They were to provide
direction for research, next-generation missions and technology
requirements.

NASA isn't expecting to drop in on ET. What it imagines we
might find is more along the lines of microbes and clues in the
chemical signature of objects to indicate the presence of those
microbes.

But microbes beget larger forms of life, and finding anything
living beyond Earth means there's a good chance something as
complex as - if not more complex than - us exists among the
millions of planets in our galaxy.

In a wrap-up session, Michael Mumma, a chief scientist at
Goddard Space Flight Center, put it succinctly: "There are two
basic questions: Where did we come from, and are we alone?"

To answer those questions, the first task is to decide in what
range of conditions life might arise. It turns out to be a much
broader area than many suspected, even here on Earth.

In recent years biologists have discovered microbes living
inside salt crystals and rocks, deep undersea at enormous
pressure, in utter darkness and in boiling hot springs in
Yellowstone National Park. One species of bacterium even lives
half a mile beneath the surface of the planet and gets its
energy from the weathering of basalt.

Although such arcane substances as liquid hydrocarbons salted
with polar molecules and ammonia-water are two media that might
support life, in general it's agreed that liquid water is a
prerequisite. That defines the "habitable zone" within which to
begin the search.

But there are other possibilities.

Water clouds might exist at the edges of the habitable zone,
and water might be found under the surface on planets and moons
outside the zone.

The most likely spots in our solar system are Mars, which may
have a liquid aquifer buried hundreds of feet below ground, and
Jupiter's moons Europa and Callisto, which are believed to have
water beneath their icy surfaces.

Some astronomers think Pluto may harbor liquid oceans in its
interior, based on evidence of tidal forces. "It looks
squashed" is how one scientist put it.

One of the goals of last week's meeting was to think about
designs for experiments that could piggyback on planned
missions, possible because of NASA's recent "better, faster,
cheaper" push.

Whereas a mission once might have taken the better part of a
decade, quicker turnaround times and more nimble missions allow
scientists to test their ideas quickly.

One proposal is the Europa ice clipper. As soon as it was clear
that Europa had the potential for liquid water beneath the
frozen surface, a mission was proposed to do a flyby and shoot
something into the surface that would chip up some of the ice
and collect it.

Another is the New Millennium Mars Microprobe, which will
piggyback on the Mars polar lander going up in January. This
volleyball-size probe literally will be thrown off the lander
as it enters the atmosphere.

"It whacks into the planet, the front part penetrates into the
soil, maybe up to 2 meters, and the aft portion remains at the
surface and communicates back to Earth," says Michael Meyer, an
astrobiologist out of NASA's Office of Space Science in
Washington.

The probe will measure water content in the soil and
temperature change over time, giving scientists an idea of the
extremes life would have to exist within.

As for Pluto, the Pluto Express is planned to launch in 2004,
meaning scientists have a few years to put together experiments
to expand our knowledge of Pluto's secrets.

When it's not possible to drop by and grab some samples, remote
sensing techniques must be developed and refined to look at
planets many light-years away.

Long-range telescopes can analyze the atmosphere of a planet to
look for chemical signatures that might mean the presence of
life.

Because we know what elements are most common in the universe
and what combinations of those elements don't seem to happen by
themselves, we can guess that some biological process might
have occurred.

A good example of this is Earth.

When the Galileo probe flew by Earth, it saw oxygen, methane
and nitrous oxide in our atmosphere. But those three can't
coexist over time.

"If you bottled it very long, the methane or the oxygen would
disappear," Meyer says. And in an atmosphere, oxygen ends up as
ozone, which is even easier to spot.

"And if you have CO2 (carbon dioxide) and ozone, which are two
easy things to see, then you'd be very suspicious because it
might be a life process."

One of the main research focuses the scientists agreed on
sounds the most unlikely but hinges on that very fact. The
proposed Mission to Early Earth would explore our planet's
origins by examining paleontological remnants and looking at
extreme environments deep beneath the seas and Earth's crust,
where life forms left from the early, pre-oxygen Earth might be
found.

Figuring out what happened on Earth might help us guess what
happened, or is happening, on other planets, as life appears
now to be almost automatic, given certain circumstances.

"If you put the right kinds of elements together, you get a
planet. If you have a planet in the right place, you get a
climate. And if you have the right kind of climate, life
develops," says John Hayes of the Woods Hole Oceanographic
Institute.

On Earth, that's exactly what happened.

After the appearance of liquid water - the precursor of all
life - on our planet 4 billion years ago, paleontologists date
the first chemical signs of life at 3.8 billion years ago.

"Life came pretty quickly as soon as water existed," says Jill
Tarter, who's with the Search for Extraterrestrial Life
Institute in Mountain View, Calif.

If life's pretty much a given when certain conditions are met,
then what about Mars, which early on sported liquid water and
was much more similar to Earth than it is now?

"Mars in fact might have been a better place for life to start
because it had fewer (asteroid) hits," Tarter says.

There are whose who posit that it might have had life, then
"seeded" Earth, explaining the rapid (geologically speaking)
appearance of life here a mere 200 million years after liquid
water became available.

Chris McKay, one of the NASA research scientists who announced
two years ago they had found what appeared to be fossilized
microbes on a meteorite from Mars, isn't necessarily one who
follows that theory, but he can explain how it might have
happened.

"Natural processes can spread life from one planet to another;
it doesn't require intelligent life," he told the assembled
scientists.

Rocks thrown out of a planet's or moon's orbit by the force of
a meteorite crashing to the surface are slowly drawn by the
gravitational force of nearby bodies.

"After an impact on Mars, rocks start arriving on Earth within
a few years," he says. There's abundant proof of this, as 12
meteorites found in Antarctica all came from Mars.

Those rocks haven't been heated beyond a few hundred degrees,
and their interiors stay intact, shielding any hitchhiking
microbes from ultraviolet radiation and the other rigors of
space travel without the benefit of a space capsule.

"If you were coming from Earth and going to Mars, you'd be
well-protected in a small rock - if you were a bacillus," McKay
says. To test some of these ideas, one experiment is planned
that would expose to the vacuum of space various Earth-based
bacteria from extreme environments.

It's not as far-fetched as it sounds.

Spore-forming bacteria have reportedly been revived from the
stomachs of wasps entombed in amber for more than 25 million
years.

After their intensive three days of discussions, the scientists
went back to their universities and laboratories, but they
haven't ended talks. NASA has created a "virtual" Astrobiology
Institute, using high-speed Internet links initially among 11
academic and research institutions (see astrobiology.arc.nasa
.gov).

It will be "in the forefront of the increasingly important link
between astronomy and biology," NASA administrator Daniel S.
Goldin says.

With $9 million in funding for 1999 and $20 million in 2000,
NASA expects the research to take us even farther along the
road to understanding our planet and our place in the universe







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   Jul > Jul 30

               RI Native and the Crop circles of Cache County

From: Joseeph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 06:46:09 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:54:10 -0400
Subject: RI Native and the Crop circles of Cache County


Dear Members:

You might enjoy reading about the "Lost Colonel" case
from 1986. See below.


From: "jrdutilly" <jrdutilly@timp.net>
To: <Masinaigan@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RI native and the Crop circles of Cache County
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 12:11:30 -0600

Joseph Trainor said:

>Dear Leo:

>Thanks for writing. As I understand it, last week's
>Deseret News had a story on crop circles up in Cache
>County. I'm hoping to do a story on that for my newsletter.

Since I've lived here I've heard of the crops circles you
mentioned. They seem recurring. Cache County is a 6 hour ride
from here and I've never seen them.

>   If you hear or read about any UFO sightings in Utah,
>please feel free to email me the details. If you're quoting
>from a newspaper, please provide the name of the
>newspaper, its city of origin and the date the article appeared.

This article appeared in a Moab, Utah monthly. It was written by
an acquaintance of mine. When I asked him if the article was
serious or a joke he swore it was true and claimed he had
witnesses.

From: The Canyon Country Zephyr

February/March 1997 Issue


A Strange Occurrence At Thompson Springs

By Peter Haney

Former County Councilman and Allen Memorial Hospital nurse Peter
Haney swears that what follows is true....

It was 12:20 am on Thanksgiving Day 1986...I had just finished
my midnight rounds at the hospital. I went to an empty patient
room and turned on Channel 6 to see the temperature - 23[F]
degrees. It�s going to be a cold winter, I thought to myself. I
walked down the corridor to make a fresh pot of coffee; with
only two patients who couldn�t go home for the holiday, it had
the markings of a quiet night. As the coffee started dripping,
the emergency room door creaked open and slammed shut.

I walked around the corner to see who it was and saw a woman
pushing a wheel chair from the front of the trauma room and
heading back out the door. I was right behind her.

The woman�s car was pulled up tight by the ramp and she went to
the passenger side and opened the door. It was cold. I could
instantly see my every breath. I walked around behind the wheel
chair to steady it as she helped a large man out of the car and
into the wheelchair. He had a military uniform on, which was
quite disheveled and dirty. His knees were showing through small
holes in his pants and his feet were bare, blistered and
bleeding--- the beginnings of frostbite.

I pushed the man up the ramp and through the ER room door the
woman was holding open for me and into the trauma room, grabbing
the ER paperwork as we went in. He looked dazed and distant as
we helped him up on the stretcher and covered him with two or
three blankets. I started to take his vitals, introduced myself
and asked his name. He just looked up at me and said nothing
while still shaking from the chills.

I looked to the woman for some help. She said she found him
wandering along the interstate between Thompson and Crescent
Junction, Utah on her way back home from Grand Junction,
Colorado; in fact, she had almost collided with the uniformed
man, had swerved to miss him, and had to back up to offer
assistance.

His pulse was 56, his skin cold. She said he didn�t say a word
during the entire drive into town and asked if he was going to
be all right. His temperature was 91, indicating mild
hypothermia. I covered him with two blankets except for his
feet, which were pasty white on the soles and blistered red up
to the ankles.

The woman asked if she could leave as it was late and she had to
get home. I said sure and took her name and number.

The man�s Iungs had good breath sounds he even had slight
distant bowel sounds. I looked at his eyes, and though they
reacted sluggishly he could focus on me. I asked him if he
wanted a cup of coffee, he nodded yes. It was now 12:45 AM. I
went to get the coffee for the two of us and called Dr.
Mayberry. I gave him a report on the patient. He said he would
be here soon. I walked down the hall and checked the other
patients who were all asleep, and then took our coffee to the
ER. He sat up with some help and began sipping his coffee. I
asked if I could check his wallet for ID, and he agreed.

The man told me his name and said he was traveling from Florida
to Nevada to see family for Thanksgiving. Just then Dr. Mayberry
came through the door and proceeded to examine him and clean and
dress his feet.

And then we were told the most remarkable story. The man, a Lt.
Colonel in the Air Force, told us he had left Grand Junction
Colorado at dusk and was travelling west on Interstate 70. Just
as he came over the hill and saw Thompson, Utah�s 2 gas
stations, he felt the truck he was driving leave the road and
start to float away." He said he was a pilot and knew what it
was like to leave the ground and that this was almost like being
in a balloon. He remembered floating toward a black escarpment
and then that was it. Nothing.

The next thing he remembered was walking toward the distant
lights, cold and dirty and then the close call with the car on
the freeway.

He looked up and Dr. Mayberry smiled and asked him if he had a
bit of Old Bushmills to spare. The man swore he had not been
drinking, and that as an Air Force pilot he had not had a drink
for two years. He then asked if he could use the phone to call
his base in Florida. It was almost 1am. After a few moments on
the phone he asked if we would step out for a bit. Dr. Mayberry
admitted him for the night and jotted down some notes. We then
went back in the trauma room and the man said he couldn�t talk
to us anymore about the incident. Dr. Mayberry said, "Good, then
we�ll both get some sleep and I�ll see you in the morning." and
then left.

I wheeled the gurney with the Air Force Colonel into an empty
patient room and he moved himself onto the bed. He then lay back
and I checked his vitals again--- Temperature was up to 94,
chills were still strong, a good sign. It was plain to see that
physically, at least, he was recovering. But his story ...I
didn�t know what to think.

The night passed quietly. But at 6:50 am I heard the ER door
creak open and slam again. Two men in uniforms were walking down
the hall and approached me just as I completed taping the night
report for the next shift. They asked to see the Lt. Colonel and
I showed them his room. One of the men came out and got a
wheelchair and went back in again. Curious, I walked toward the
room to see what they were doing when the two men burst through
the door, pushing the patient in the wheel chair. They hurried
down the hall, through the Emergency Room through the swinging
doors, and to an unmarked car where a third man waited with the
motor running. As I opened the ER door, the last car door
slammed shut and they road out of the parking lot. I went back
to his room and discovered that his bedside chart was missing.
Everything was missing...except for the admission paperwork,
they had removed any sign that the Lost Colonel had ever been
here.

About then the day shift began to arrive and I told the crew
what had happened.

Gloria Harris came down the hall and I gave her the admission
paperwork from the ER that I�d left at the Nurse�s station. She
tried the phone number that the Colonel had called the night
before but the receiving party claimed there was no one
stationed there by that name. Did this man exist?

My coworkers thought I was bored and playing a game or losing my
sanity until Dr. Mayberry came in later that morning. "Where�s
my patient?" he asked.

We never found out.


An Epilogue

Recently I spent the day looking at county roads in the Book
Cliffs with Dave Warner, the County Road Superintendent. The
drive jogged a memory he hadn�t considered in years. He told me
of the time in the late Eighties when on the day after
Thanksgiving he had seen a Huey military helicopter flying out
of the area above Floy Wash. He remembered seeing it come down
from high up on the Book Cliffs, close to the Utah State
Roadless area. On a cable below it dangled a truck. I asked him
if he had any Old Bushmills to spare and then told him of my
night at the hospital on Thanksgiving Day.

Cool or what ?

The owner of the paper is Jim Stiles and he can be reached at
zephyr@lasal.net

Another thing I found out since moving out west. I've met people
from Roswell NM, and they are all POSITIVE that the 1947 crash
and coverup are real.

keep up the good work

Leo







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                        P-1947: Fort Itaipu, Brasil?

From: Ed Stewart <egs@NETCOM.COM>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:50:55 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:45:42 -0400
Subject: P-1947: Fort Itaipu, Brasil?

Hello list,

Loren Gross needs as precise a location as possible for Fort
Itaipu, Brazil?  The site of a November 1957 UFO incident.

Where on the coast is it? Somewhere in southern Brazil on the
coastline is the best I can determine, but where?  It doesn't
seem to show on any maps. My recollection is that it was near
Santos in the state of Sao Paulo. Also, was it part of Fortaleza
Duque de Caxias by any chance?

Thanks ahead of time.

Ed Stewart
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ed Stewart egs@netcom.com | So Man, who here seems principal alone,
There is Something        | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown.
  Going On!       ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal,
Salvador Freixedo ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole.
--------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man -------






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                    Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs

From: John Rimmer <j_rimmer@library.croydon.gov.uk>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:27:50 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:41:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs

Apologies again from the P.L.A.Driftwood Organisation for its
continued computer problems, leading to this rather late response
to:

> From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
> Date: Tue, 21 jul 1998 11:13:33 -0400
> Subject: Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs

> Mr. Rimmer also misses the point that my message pointed out that
> the burden falls on anti-OEH proponents to deal with why it
> should be that a variety of completely unrelated physical,
> optical, mental and medical causes lead to a single result : the
> UFO.

I am happy to address this point.

In fact this is exactly what the PSH predicts. The PSH is not an
*explanation* for each individual UFO reports, and PSH
proponents accept that there are many separate stimuli which
generate UFO reports. These can inded be optical, mental and
medical. I'd add to that meteorological and mechanical amongst
others. But as Mr. Cashman notes, they all result in a UFO
report. Now unless Mr Cashman is saying that *all* UFO reports
cannot be explained by mundane phenomena, he must accept that
the conventionally quoted figure of 90% IFOs represents 'a
variety of completely unrelated' phenomena which have,
demonstrably, resulted in UFO reports.

So we have the remaining 5%. The only linking factor in these
instances is that they have *not* been linked to one of the
'unrelated phenomena'. This in itself is not proof of any other
link between them, such as the ETH.

Where the PSHers start to get interested is when we find that
there is no substantial difference between these cases, and the
ones which are 'solved' to Mr Cashman's satisfaction. The link,
we think, must be in the way visual stimuli which are unfamiliar
to the percipient are interpreted by the individual. This
interpretation is determined by the psychology of the individual
and the preoccupations and assumption of the society in which
they live. In the past this has often involved societies
dominated by religious belief, so interpretations have fallen
into that template: angels, the Virgin Mary, the voice of God,
etc. Others interpretations which will be familiar to readers
include the invasion scares of the early 20th Century in
Britain, a variety of folkloric figures over centuries (well
documented accounts of fairy sighting exist well into the 20th
century in Europe and elswhere), or even black helicopters in
the paranoid 'nineties.

There are of course a range of other possibilities that others
might put forward: people are seeing 'real' ETs and interpreting
them as religious figures; or are seeing physical manifestations
of the Deity and interpreting them as German airships; or are
seeing fairies and interpreting them as extraterrestrial beings.
Or indeed that they are having a form of migraine which they
cannot recognise as such and are interpreting it as visions of
ET craft

It is worth pointing out that the PSH is still perfectly valid
even if some of the original stimuli for sightings *are*
extraterrestrial craft - we would still be interested in the way
they were interpreted before 1947!

So the answer to Mr Cashman's question is: a variety of
unrelated physical, optical, mental and medical causes lead to a
single result because they provide the percipient with a
stimulus which they are unable to immediately relate to any
known source, so interpret it in a way which is mediated by the
psychological state of the percipient (both generally and at the
time of the event), and by the cultural and social milieu in
which the event occurs.

I could probably polish it up a bit given time, but I hope that
will do for the moment.

John Rimmer
The Captain of the "Flagship of Psycho-Social Ufology"
Magonia. (www.magonia.demon.co.uk)






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                          P-1947: Levelland series

From: Herb Taylor <HerbUFO@AOL.COM>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:18:05 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:50:10 -0400
Subject: P-1947: Levelland series


To Mark and the List:

There's no doubt that the series of sightings in the vicinity of
Levelland, Texas on the night of November 2/3, 1957 were one of
the most dramatic in American UFO history.

There's also no doubt that since the official investigation was
poorly conducted, the resultant explanation(s) cannot be taken
seriously. But, your statement that "the concentration was not
followed by a drawn out series of similar accounts over the
following days..." needs clarification.

The fact is that several similar cases DID occur in the
Texas/New Mexico area in the following days. Also, that various
vehicle E-M cases were a feature of this wave.

It should also be noted that misidentifications of Venus as a
"UFO" were rampant during this period. Also, that the late Dr.
J. Allen Hynek did NOT view this as a real UFO wave.

Still, this period of UFO history is one of the more fascinating
on record.

Regards,
Herb Taylor






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                        Re: P-1947: Levelland Series

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@FRONTIERNET.NET>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:47:24 PDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:53:32 -0400
Subject: Re: P-1947: Levelland Series

>Also, that the late Dr. J. Allen Hynek did NOT view this as a
>real UFO wave. Still, this period of UFO history is one of the
>more fascinating on record.

I understand (and concur with) the second sentence here.  The
first, as I understand it, makes no sense -- unless Taylor is
holding Allen Hynek to the views he held in 1957, which is both
misleading and unfair.

In The UFO Experience (pp. 123ff.) Hynek discusses the Levelland
events, in effect apologizes for his own failings then, and has
many critical words to say about the Blue Book "investigation.".

Jerry Clark






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              Hynek's 'The Emerging Picture of the UFO Problem'

From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:36:56 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:36:56 -0400
Subject: Hynek's 'The Emerging Picture of the UFO Problem'

Thanks to Francis Ridge <slk@EVANSVILLE.NET> & 'Jean' of
the Current Encounters List for the lead on the following.

There are many Web-impaired subscribers to UpDates - this
is mainly for them.

ebk

---------------------------------------

From: Brian Zeiler's 'Science, Logic, and the UFO Debate' site

http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/papers/aiaa12.htm


The Emerging Picture of the UFO Problem
By Joseph Allen Hynek
Northwestern University
Evanston, Illinois

Presented at theAIAA 13th Aerospace Sciences Meeting Pasadena,
Calif., January 20-22, 1975

Abstract

This paper intends to present the elements of the UFO problem,
today. Truly unidentified reports of events in the air, and
close to the ground, exist, events worldwide in origin and
appearing to fit a relatively small number of patterns. The
data, amenable to study of an interdisciplinary nature,
involving a number of scientific disciplines and probably
necessitating new departures in methodology, have been
imperfectly studied in the past and have been virtually ignored
by science. An increasing interest in, and open-mindedness
about the UFO phenomenon, whatever its cause, on the part of
established scientists and the educated public exists, and there
has been created a Center for UFO Studies, whose activities are
guided by a scientific board of established scientists in their
respective disciplines. The outstanding objective of the attack
on the UFO problem is the formulation of a hypothesis - or
hypotheses - that encompasses the established parameters of the
UFO phenomenon - no matter how far beyond the boundaries of
present day science it may have to be.


The contemporary picture of the UFO phenomenon that has at long
last emerged is that the UFO phenomenon is indeed a legitimate
problem for science, though to which discipline, or disciplines,
it rightfully belongs is a problem in itself; it seems clearly
to be an interdisciplinary problem, requiring an
interdisciplinary methodology. The available data are only
partly amenable to the strict experimental procedures of the
physical scientists; the data are observational data and not
laboratory and experimental, and hence are more akin to the
observational data of the astronomer than to the experimental
results of the physicist. Like the astronomer who must wait but
be ready when an event such as an eclipse or a fireball occurs,
the investigator of the UFO phenomenon cannot order events but
must wait for them, but he knows not where or when. But neither
the physicist nor the astronomer, unlike the biologist and the
social scientists, deal with phenomena that exhibit intelligent
behavior; the UFO investigator may be so confronted. If so, the
methodology of the behavioral sciences would thus be applicable;
indeed, of intelligent behavior on the part of the UFO can be
definitely established, elements of game theory may need to be
employed. It may involve the concept of "do they know that we
know that they know that we know". In any case, a flexible
methodology for this interdisciplinary problem is called for.

But one element that is common to all scientific endeavor is the
problem of signal-to-noise ration; in the UFO phenomenon this
problem is a major one. The UFO problem is, initially, a
signal-to-noise problem. The noise is, and has been, so great
that the existence of a signal has been seriously questioned.
Isaac Asimov, whom no one could accuse of lacking in
imagination, writes:

  "Eyewitness reports of actual space ships and actual
extraterrestrials are, in themselves, totally unreliable. There
have been numerous eyewitness reports of almost everything that
most rational people do not care to accept - of ghosts, angels,
levitation, zombies, werewolves, and so on... The trouble is,
that whatever the UFO phenomenon is, it comes and goes
unexpectedly. There is no way of examining it systematically. It
appears suddenly and accidentally, is partially seen, and then
is more or less inaccurately reported. We remain dependent on
occasional anecdotal accounts."

(in the December 14, 1974 issue of TV Guide, a media magazine
with a very great circulation and hence powerful in forming
public opinion.)

Here we see a very important part of the UFO problem, that of
the presentation of data to men of science, and to men, like
Asimov and others who excel in writing about science.

Scientific efforts can be seriously hampered if the popular
image of a subject is grossly misleading. Funds can be curtailed
and good men of science who wish to give time to the subject are
apt to face misrepresentation whenever their work receives any
public attention. Ball lightning is just as much an unkown as
the UFO phenomenon, yet scientists can openly discuss these
"balls of light" but are likely to be censured if they talk
about similar unidentified lights which last much longer, are
brighter, and move over greater distances, but are labeled UFOs.
Proper presentation of the UFO phenomenon to the media may not
seem an integral part of the UFO problem, per se, but its
effects loom large.

The signal-to-noise aspect of the UFO problem is aggravated to a
high degree because the signal is a totally unexpected signal,
and represents an entirely new set of empirical observations
which do not fit into any existing framework in any of the
accepted scientific disciplines. One may even contemplate that
the signal itself signals the birth of a new scientific
discipline.

I return to the out-of-hand dismissal of the UFO phenomenon by
persons like Isaac Asimov, in part, because of the poor
presentation of the data to such persons. This is an important
facet of the UFO problem itself and must be taken into account
if we are to make any progress with the study of the signal. An
analogy may be useful here: In the isolation of radium, Mme.
Curie was obliged to work through tons of pitchblende to obtain
a minuscule amount of radium. Yet there was no question of the
signal in the "pitchblende noise". The radioactivity of the
pitchblende was unquestioned. Let us suppose that instead there
had been a rumor - an old wive's tale, or an alchemist's story -
that there existed a miraculous unknown element which could be
used in the transmutation of elements, and which had miraculous
healing powers and other exotic properties. Would any scientist,
on the basis of such an alchemist's tale, have done what Mme.
Curie did to lift the signal out of the noise of tons of
pitchblende ?Hardly. Mme. Curie _knew_ that there was a signal -
it wasn't a rumor. And although the labor was immense, there was
a definite, scientifically accepted methodology for separating
the signal from the noise.

Now, in the UFO problem we did not know at the start that there
was a signal - there were merely tales, unacceptable to
scientists as a body. Only those of us, through a long exposure
to the subject, or motivated by a haunting curiosity to work in
the field and to get our hands dirty with the raw data, came to
know there was a signal. We _know_ that we cannot find a trivial
solution to the problem, i.e., a common sense solution that the
phenomenon is either entirely a matter of misidentification,
hallucinations, and hoaxes, or a known phenomenon of nature,
e.g., of a meteorological nature. We know that there exists a
subset of UFO reports of high strangeness and high witness
credibility for which no one - and I emphasize - _no one_, has
been able to ascribe a viable explanation. But the Isaac Asimovs
and the trained scientists, as well as large segments of the
public, do not know this. And we cannot expect them to know this
unless we present data to them properly, and thus provide
motivation to study the subject. We who have worked in the UFO
field are somewhat in the position of Einstein who wrote to
Arnold Sommerfeld in response to Sommerfelds' skepticism of the
General Theory of Relativity:

   "You will accept the General Theory of Relativity when you
have studied it. Therefore I will not utter a word in its
defense."

Emotional defense of the UFO phenomenon is pointless; the facts,
properly presented, must speak for themselves.

With the noise level so high, and with the popular
interpretationof UFOs as visitors from outer space rather than
simply what their initials stand for, _Unidentified Flying
Objects_ - an unidentified phenomenon whose origin we do not
know - it is very difficult for one to be motivated to study the
subject.

The noise in the UFO problem is two-fold. There is the obvious
noise, and also the more "sophisticated" noise, which might even
be part of the signal. The obvious noise is akin to that well
known to any scientist. An astronomer recognizes the noise of
errors of observation, of instrumental errors, or that
introduced by atmospheric distortion, by photon statistics, etc.

In our problem the noise is likewise comprised of errors of
observation (though to a much greater degree), but also to
wishful thinking, deliberate substitution of interpretation of
an event for the event itself, as, "I saw a space ship last
night" for "I saw a light in the sky last night", and the
totally extraneous noise of the unbalanced imaginations of the
pseudo-religious fanatics who propagate unfounded stories and
who uncritically accept anything and everything that appeals to
their warped imaginations.

Air Force Project Blue Book amply demonstrated the major and
obvious noise problem. Study of some 12,600 cases in Air Force
files showed that the great majority of initial reports - about
80% of them - proved merely to be misidentifications of common
objects or phenomena, other types of mistakes, and a few hoaxes.
This finding is fully substantiated by my own many years of
experience in the investigation of UFO reports, and by the
experience of serious investigators in various countries with
whom I have discussed this matter.

The ratio of 4:1 seems to be sort of an invariant; it was
present in the early Project Sign report (1949) and has been so
far, present down the years since then. The high noise is a
betenoir for the makers of catalogues of UFO reports; clearly if
80% of the raw reports represent noise, very little of
consequence can be extracted from such extensive lists unless a
mechanism is employed to upgrade the original basic data. Dr.
Saunders, from whom we shall hear later, and who has done
extensive work in the production of the voluminous UFOCAT, is,
of course, well aware of the high noise level and has made
provision in his coding system whereby cases having a high
degree of probability of being 'signal', can be extracted from
the noise. Less scientifically oriented investigators or
organizations may not be fully aware of the strong dilution
factor the noise level represents.

The obvious noise inputs can be allowed for; it is the data
input which may or may not be noise that remains to vex us.
Take, for example, close encounters in which physical effects
and craft occupants, respectively, are reported. Project Blue
Book considered all of these as noise, dismissing the first
almost always as a "hoax" and the second as "psychological".

But were they all hoaxes or the products of unbalanced minds?
Today, with a far larger data base than was available to Blue
Book (for not only a great many UFO reports in this country
never made their way to Blue Book, but the flow of foreign
reports, gathered by UFO oreanizations and investigators in many
other countries also largely by-passed Blue Book), we recognize
the self-same patterns occurring today as were reported in the
1950's. It has become increasingly harder to dismiss these
reported patterns. Some of what many of us regarded originally
as noise may even prove to be part of the signal!Take, for
example, the reports from widely scattered regions of the globe,
of the seemingly paranormal aspects of some UFO reports. These
"contactee" cases have generally been regarded even by seasoned
UFO investigators as crackpot emanations. Could they, however,
possibly be part of an extremely complex signal that our culture
does not know how to interpret?

All of this, of course, complicates our assessment of the UFO
problem. But it does remain, foremost, a signal-to-noise ratio
problem. Let us therefore acknowledge the noise and its
ubiquitous presence, and turn to the main elements of the
emerging picture of the UFO phenomenon.

The aspects of the UFO problem and the scientific objectives
relating to them are, in my opinion, these:

(1) _Truly unidentified reports of events in the air or close to
    or on the ground exist._

To deny this would be tantamount to saying that we, as
scientists, understand everything that happens in the sky, in
the air, and on the ground. (We don't understant ball lightning,
for example!)A large percent of these sightings have been
popularly termed UFOs, and also popularly interpreted most
frequently as evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence. Such an
interpretation is obviously unwarranted without a detailed study
of the content of reports of unidentified sightings. It is
essential to establish with a high degree of probability, if not
with certainty, the characteristics, both specifically and
statistically, of the content of these unidentified sightings,
for the contents of the reported sightings constitute the UFO
phenomenon. For, the "U" in UFO simply means unidentified, and
may cover a wide range of unrelated causes.

(2) _Those sightings termed UFO sightings represent a phenomenon
    that is worldwide and appears to manifest in a relatively
    small number of patterns of appearance and behavior._

These patterns are being well delineated by UFO investigators
and some are the subject of later papers in this program, and so
I will only broadly summarize them, based on my own work in the
subject. The content of the most reliable reports, as judged by
the caliber of the witnesses, describes, on a global basis,
apparently physical craft which have the following properties:
they can maneuver with ease in our atmosphere, they appear
largely unaffected by gravity and the inertial properties of
matter (as exhibited by the ability of hovering a few feet above
the ground or high in the air with seeming little effort, and
the ability to accelerate, often noiselessly, at incredible
rates by ordinary standards). They appear capable of detection
by radar on occasion, as attested by some of the best accounts
which involve radar confirmations of visual sightings, and vice
versa. At night they are primarily visible by self-generated
light and only secondarily by reflection, and virtually all
colors of the spectrum are reported, with a change in color
often observed as the UFO accelerates.

The UFOs are capable of physical effects: they are reported to
leave ''landing marks'' or other physical evidence of their
proximity, such as rings or other types of imprints on the
ground, plant life is withered or blighted, they are capable of
being recorded photographically, capable of influencing animals
(it has frequently been reported that attention to the presence
of a UFO was first given by animals), and physiological effects
on humans have been frequently reported, e.g., temporary
paralysis and blindness, headaches, nausea, but permanent or
fatal damage has been rarely reported.

The question of whether the UFO phenomenon is a manifestation of
some type of intelligence, whether extraterrestrial,
"meta-terrestrial", or indeed some aspect of our own, is a
critical one. Certainly, in those close encounter cases in which
creatures or occupants, ostensibly the pilots of the craft, are
reported, intelligent behavior of some sort seems obvious. Even
if the occupants are robots, a more distant intelligence is
implied. The almost universally reported response to detection
by these occupants is an important part of the picture; upon
detection the creatures are reported to disappear quickly and
take off. Except in certain cases, there appears to be no desire
for any involvement with the human race.

The non-occupant cases, ranging from lights seen at night (whose
behavior, general appearance, and trajectories do not conform to
obvious explanation), to the metallic looking discs frequently
reported in the daytime, to the domed, portholed craft reported
mostly at night, all exhibit behavior which can be characterized
as intelligent as contrasted to random-walk behavior.

The very peculiar property of the UFO, and one which has caused
many to dismiss the entire subject, is the extreme localization
of the phenomenon in space and time. "Why didn't more people see
what so-and-so reported ?" is frequently asked. The answer is
probably two fold: It has been the experience of most
investigators that close encounter cases manifest preferentially
in relatively isolated places, away from dwellings and
installations frequented by humans. This is evident from a study
of specialized catalogs of these events from which as much noise
as possible has been vetted. One might be tempted to say of such
cases that a sort of "avoidance principle" has been followed,
but much more study is needed to firmly establish this point.

Secondly, why UFOs are not seen by large groups of people, or
sequentially by independent groups of people along the
trajectory of a UFO, is simply that vertical rather than
horizontal trajectories are greatly favored. Recently, it was
pointed out on a popular TV broadcast that when a particularly
bright meteor occurred it was seen by large groups of people,
photographed by many, and its trajectory accurately traced. Why
is this not the case of UFOs?This was the famous case of a
bright daylight fireball that travelled almost horizontally,
miles high, acrosh several states, and crossed areas of high
summer tourist density (camera equipped!). UFOs, however are
most frequently reported as descending at a steep angle,
hovering for a few moments, and then taking off again on a
nearly vertical trajectory. Coupled with the appearance in
generally isolated regions this offers a resonable explanation
of the paucity of witnesses.

The majority of the sightings are at night, and, as Vallee and
Poher have shown, if rectification for mankind's sleeping habits
are valid, the majority of events (but not sightings) occur in
the very early hours of the morning.

All in all, the emerging picture of the UFO problem revolves
about the equally emerging picture of the UFO phenomenon as one
that represents a set of entirely new and empirical observations
which our present scientific framework is severely strained to
encompass. Instead, the hovering, the rapid accelerations, and
the apparently effortless maneuvers of the UFOs clearly imply a
far advanced technology - if, as UFO investigators tend to
agree, the reported events do represent signal and not noise.

(3) _The UFO phenomenon has been ignored or very imperfectly
    studied by the scientific fraternity._

I believe this has largely been due to the poor presentation of
the subject matter. It could hardly be expected that the
scientific fraternity could have been self-motivated to study
UFO reports in the face of the extremely high signal-to-noise
ratio and the poor ''sponsorship'' of the subject. In TV
parlance, the program has had a bad sponsor. It was presented
mostly in tabloids, in pulp magazines, and in the sensational
press.

(4) _UFO data are amenable to study of an interdisciplinary
    nature, involving a number of scientific disciplines and
    probably necessitating new departures in methodology._

We do not know to whom the UFO problem really belongs - to the
physical scientist, to the sociologist, or to tbe psychiatrist.
We know only that it exists. Radar returns and other physical
effects of the UFO phenomenon including photographs, are
obviously susceptible to laboratory and other physical analysis.

Until spectrograms of nocturnal lights are obtained, and
accurate measures of angular accelerations, trajectories,
sounds, and of colors and color changes become available, less
precise methods, akin to those used in the piecing together of
intelligence data, must be employed. Statistical methods, as
those already used by Poher, Saunders, and Vallee, can be
powerfully employed.

As long as our primary data are presented in the form of witness
accounts, one has the same problem, for instance, as does the
investigator of air crashes when questioning witnesses, or a
detective investigating a suspected case of arson. It is
becoming abundantly clear that in the UFO problem, the
methodology must be adapted to the phenomenon, and not the
phenomenon to a particular methodology.

(5) _There is an increasing interest in, and an open-minded
    attitude toward, the UF0 phenomenon. whatever its cause, on
    the part of established scientists and the educated public._

A very interesting aspect of the emerging picture of the UF0
problem is the incrcasing willingness of scientists and
technical persons to enter into discussion of the UFO
phenomenon, even though conducted on the controversial level. An
increasing number of knowledgeable persons no longer dismiss the
subject as sheer nonsense and as being in the same category as
witchcraft, demonology, werewolves, etc., although one still
finds serious books on UFOs shelved in libraries and bookstores
under "Occult", "Mysticism", and "Science Fiction."

(6) _There has been created a Center for UFO Studies, a free
    association of scientists motivated by their common interest
    in the UFO problem._

The Center was established to fulfill three main functions.
First, to provide a focal point for the efforts of those
scientists who have become intrigued by and concerned about the
UFO problem and wish to contribute their expertise in their
respective disciplines to an attack on the problem; second, to
provide a locus for those who wish to obtain authoritative and
reliable information about the UFO phenomenon, documents,
reports, etc., which are not easily available elsewhere; and
thirdly, to provide a place where people who have had a UFO
experience can report it without fear of ridicule and where they
can feel that such a report can contribute to a scientific
approach to this problem.

The Center is not open to general membership, for obvious
reasons, but does have the status of a not-for-profit
corporation, and as such, can accept contributions that are
tax-deductible. It openly seeks financial support so that it can
support and publish the research of its scientific members,
maintain a library, organize symposia, and act as a "clearing
house" for inquiries from other scientific bodies and from the
public.

(7) _The outstanding objective in the attack on the UFO problem
    is the formulation of an hypothesis, or hypotheses, - no
    matter how far reaching or how much in apparent conflict
    with the present day scientific concepts such hypotheses may
    have to be - that will encompass the patterns of UFO
    behavior that have been established by the most careful
    analysis._

Given the elements of the present picture of the UFO phenomenon,
it is clear that any viable hypothesis that meets these picture
elements satisfactorilly will be, according to present views,
"far out". There have been other times in the history of science
when striking departures from classical concepts were necessary.
Since new hypotheses must in some way use present knowledge as a
springboard, it is a sobering thought to contemplate that the
gap between the springboard of the known and a viable UFO
hypothesis might even be so great as to prevent the formulation
of an acceptable hypothesis at present. Thus, for example, only
a century ago, an inconsequential period of time in total
history, the best scientific minds could not have envisioned the
nuclear processes which we now feel certain take place in the
deep interiors of stars. The question of energy production on
the sun capable of maintaining the sun's prodigious outflow of
energy for hundreds of millions of years - a time perioddemanded
by the fossil history millions of years - was simply not
answerable by any hypothesis conceivable to the scientists of a
century ago. It is indeed sobering, yet challenging, to consider
that the entire UFO phenomenon may be only the tip of the
proverbialiceberg in a signalling an entirely new domain of the
knowledge ofnature as yet totally unexplored, an unexplored and
as unimagined as nuclear processes would have been a century
ago.

It is necessary to be aware of this possibility but it should
not cow us into hopeless inactivity. There may be viable
hypotheses which can be couched in present terms. The UFO
phenomenon exists, and this fact alone should represent a
challenge to science and not a roadblock. We have a
responsibility as scientists to support those who accept this
challenge even though we may not ourselves be inclined to pursue
the matter. In any event, ridicule of those who do consider this
subject should not enter, for ridicule is certainly not a part
of the scientific method.

It is to support these scientists who have become intrigued by
the challenge of the UFO phenomenon that the Center for UFO
Studies has been created, and the scientific board of the Center
welcomes your interest and cooperation.






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                         Ancient Astronaut Society?

From: Andy Denne - A.U.R.A. <aura@telekabel2.nl>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 19:41:55 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:16:35 -0400
Subject: Ancient Astronaut Society?

Hi folks,

I'm working on an article about von Daenikens "Ancient Airplanes"
but to my surprised the Ancient Astronaut Society-Homepage isn't
on acces,ch anymore!

Does anyone out there know what is going on there? Is there
another way Erich or Uli can be reached?


Greetings from a cold and rainy Holland,


Andy Denne
(A.U.R.A)





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                           P-1947: McDonald Paper

From: Jean van Gemert <j.gemert@WXS.NL>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 23:42:16 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:54:34 -0400
Subject: P-1947: McDonald Paper

Dear List,

For those who might be interested, I've made available the
complete text of James McDonald's "UFOs -- An International
Scientific Problem" paper. Visit:


http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/

for further download details.
--
Jean van Gemert
j.gemert@wxs.nl; jeanvg@dds.nl; gemert2@tn.fontys.nl
Science, Logic, and the UFO Debate: http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler








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                   UFO Roundup Appeal For Sighting Reports

From: John Hayes <jhayes@cableinet.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:08:16 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:58:44 -0400
Subject: UFO Roundup Appeal For Sighting Reports


UFO ROUNDUP APPEAL FOR SIGHTING REPORTS

Since it first started UFO ROUNDUP has built up a regular but
lopsided "feed" of reports from around the world.

The USA, Canada, UK, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa
offer regular reports.

France, Spain, Portugal, Italy and Croatia are also good
sources, while Germany and Japan are sporadic.

We get good periodic reports from Latin America, in particular
Argentina, Brazil and Chile. Though there are plenty of UFO
reports on Mexican television nothing gets to the USA.

The UFO ROUNDUP team welcome reports from all countries and
would appreciate news from Mexico, the Arab countries, Egypt and
North Africa; Poland and points east, Hungary, Romania, the
smaller Balkan countries, Iran, Pakistan, India, the countries
of southeast Asia, and China.

We have a strict confidentiality policy to protect eyewitnesses
and will not publish your details without permission.

Please note that if you have a sighting to report we need 'hard
details' and as much information as possible.

Your report should include the following:

Location.
Day, date and time of sighting.
Color, shape and other descriptions.
Direction(s) of object(s).
Estimated height and speed(s) of approach and departure.
If the sighting was reported on TV/Radio or in the press please
provide details.


All reports should be sent to: Joseph Trainor
<Masinaigan@aol.com>. Mail should only be sent to John Hayes
<webmaster@ufoinfo.com> if you have problems contacting Joseph.

(Please note that mail to the 'ufoinfo' address might not get
replies for around three weeks due to building work at home -
this will also affect web site updates. My apology for any
inconvenience - John.)

Reports can also be posted to:

UFO ROUNDUP,
c/o J. Trainor,
Box 16,
126 Toll Gate Road,
Warwick,
Rhode Island
USA 02886
=============



John Hayes

jhayes@cableinet.co.uk
webmaster@ufoinfo.com

UFOINFO:- http://ufoinfo.com
UFO Roundup:- http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/
Filer's Files:- http://ufoinfo.com/filer/








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                    Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:09:20 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:51:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs

> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:27:50 +0100
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> From: John Rimmer <j_rimmer@library.croydon.gov.uk>
> Subject: Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs

> Where the PSHers start to get interested is when we find that
> there is no substantial difference between these cases, and the
> ones which are 'solved' to Mr Cashman's satisfaction.

The problem with this is that the two major studies which have
addressed this point, the Batelle study and the GEPAN study did
not find this to be the case. They indicated that the IFO and
UFO reports represent distinct populations in terms of the
characteristics of the observed objects.

One also must note that the vast majority of "solved" cases are
NL cases, which, as noted by Hynek, have the lowest survival
rate, and that CE cases have the highest survival rate.

One must also note that with an existing literature on the UFO
subject, one can expect hoaxes to have a decided resemblance to
the typical UFO case. However, those organizations which had the
capability, authority, and a decided interest in finding hoaxes
among CE reports were generally unable to do so - to the extent
that only a tiny percentage of reports have been explained as
hoaxes.

Anticipating a previously stated objection to this low
percentage, I will simply say that it is not scientific to make
assumptions about the percentage of undiscovered hoaxes.

The model of UFO perception used by the UFO community is
somewhat different from the PSH model.

1) Witnesses who report UFOs do so because they are aware of a
conceptual category called UFO into which a variety of unusual
aerial and ground sightings may fit. Witnesses unaware of this
category, or of anyone to whom reports may be submitted,
typically retain their experience, and when they do finally
discover or decide that their experience may fall into this
category, and assuming they can overcome their reluctance to
report, they then transmit their information.

2) Certain specific natural stimuli can cause a witness aware of
the UFO category to consider the possibility that a UFO was
sighted. These natural stimuli are remarkable in that they are
unfamiliar to the observer, they are atypical presentations of a
specific phenomenon, or they are otherwise unusual.

3) Natural stimuli misperceived by the UFO witness do in fact
have an appearance similar to that which a UFO as reported
during a close encounter would have at a distance from the
witness. These include luminous phenomena, metallic objects such
as aircraft at the limits of perception, etc. Thus, it is to be
expected that the awareness of the presence of the concept of
the UFO leads to the potential for misperception.

This is not the same as stating that the existence of the UFO
concept causes the misperception, and that UFOs are no more than
misperceptions, hoaxes, and hallucinations, which is the
fundamental inversion presented by Mr. Rimmer.

Once again, usually, the witness recognizes the natural
stiumulus and does not report it as a UFO. Unreported but
witnessed unusual natural phenomena are much more frequent than
UFO reports.

When the witness does not recognize the natural stimulus and
reports it as a UFO, investigators are highly successful in
identifying the stimulus. This is because the witness is able to
successfully describe the phenomenon such that its resemblance
to a natural cause is noted by the investigator.

Given that this suggests the natural reliability of witness
perception (as opposed to interpretation), what are we to make
of the reports which cannot be identified?

a) They are natural phenomena so remarkable as to be outside the
experience and knowledge of one or more investigators and
analysts.

b) They are so distorted by the witness perceptual or
interpretive faculties that they are unrecognizable.

c) The witness is lying.

d) The phenomenon occurred largely as reported and represents a
genuninely unusual phenomenon.

In the case of (a), one does not expect any natural phenomenon
to have certain appearances (metallic, structured, contains
occupants). Thus, such reports may be safely removed from
category (a). In the case of (b), an interview is usually
capable of determining the witness perceptual ability and the
degree to which they are capable of distinguishing natural
phenomena. Most investigators use the on-site reenactment to
determine if the witness is prone to identifying non-UFO stimuli
as UFOs. In the case of (c) one assesses the personal or
professional cost of a UFO hoax to the witness. This is why
investigators consider the strongest cases to be those from
individuals with high levels of civic responsibility.

Thus, having done due diligence, the investigator leaves the
cases in (d) for the analyst. Certainly some noise remains in
this category, and given the variability of the UFO phenomenon,
it is difficult to filter this material. Generally the analyst
wishing to reduce the noise level in category (d) rejects
accounts of communication with UFO occupants, repeater
sightings, and any suggestion that the witness has been "chosen"
by the UFO source.

One must note that this once again leads us to a set of reports
of clearly structured objects, engaged in distinctive behavior,
often leaving physical traces or having physical effects,
including medical effects, which are, as a body, quite
distinguished from those which are initially or later filtered.

Again, as a body, these contain reports which are either close
range observations of clearly physical structured objects, or
longer range observations of distinctly configured luminous or
metallic objects. The reports in this class do not resemble
folklore or tall tales; they do not contain explanations or
resolutions; the witness is neither hero nor victim.

4) The UFO reporter is highly curious as to the source of the
stimulus and often engages in a sequence called the "escalation
of hypothesis" as they attempt to identify the occurrence. It is
only when this fails that the observer considers a UFO event to
have occurred. In many cases even when the event cannot be
identified by the witness, the witness dismisses the
observation, assuming there must be some explanation. This is in
complete variance with a PSH model of the witness, where the
witness is prepped by pervasive folklore to force-fit unfamiliar
stiumuli into the UFO category.

---

Let us distinguish between two things which Mr. Rimmer mixes.
There are indeed social ramifications of UFO reports, there are
indeed cultural influences on witness perception of UFO events,
and there are effects of reports on the body of potential and
actual witnesses. This is, however, far from the leap which then
attributes all UFO sightings to non-real or misperceived events
shaped by culture.

An examination of some of the reports of the 1897 wave makes
clear the difference between the real UFO reports of the era and
the folkloric hoaxes and misperceptions. One can easily see that
there are reports of UFOs which do not contain mentions of
wings, gondolas, bearded or female occupants, or communication
with those occupants in English. These UFO reports from that era
describe luminous objects, sometimes with unusual performance,
light beams, and other phenomena familiar to the modern UFO
community.

Furthermore, events such as the Orson Welles' War of the Worlds,
which did not trigger a UFO wave despite the panic engenedered
by the broadcast, tend to mitigate against a PSH explanation of
UFO waves, flaps, and concentrations. In addition,
concentrations such as Levelland, where in a matter of hours a
set of essentially identical reports was received from witnesses
not in communication with each other or with any aware media,
also invalidate PSH as a hypothesis accounting for UFOs.

Finally, UFOlogy is not the only science where there is some
resemblance between non-related phenomena and related phenomena.
One might cite the history of quasars as an example of such a
process - initially quasars were thought to be stars with
unusual qualities. A good deal of subsequent investigation was
required before it was determined that despite their resemblance
to stars, they were, in fact, active galactic cores.

One would not suggest that as a consequence, all stars are
active galactic cores... right?

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/library.htm
------







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                       Lake Ontario Lights - 07-29-98

From: Jennifer Jarvis <fierycelt@full-moon.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:02:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:22:30 -0400
Subject: Lake Ontario Lights - 07-29-98

Hi Errol and list.

We were back on the north shore of the lake last night and had a
new friend from this list join us.

ORBS were evident from about 21.30, but earlier, at 20.34, we
had some interesting activity in the way of bright lights. These
were in a similar location to the lights we recorded in
May 1997 with identical timings.

We have put up some frames from the video, and will do a more
detailed report over the weekend.

The link to the images is from the Main Page of Orbwatch, on the
New Site Updates Menu dated 29th. July.

Best wishes.

Jennifer Jarvis

--
"It is a strange place where ships, planes and
people vanish into thin air, where weird fogs and
globes of light abound, where ominous waters
shroud sinister events."
           - Hugh Cochrane, 'Gateway to Oblivion'

*******************************************
Please visit our website "ORBWATCH" at

http://www.per.to/orbwatch

*******************************************







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               P-1947: Hynek on The Leveland, Texas, Sightings

From: Fran Ridge <slk@EVANSVILLE.NET>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:46:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:14:21 -0400
Subject: P-1947: Hynek on The Leveland, Texas, Sightings

For the record:
Fran Ridge

[From: 'The UFO Experience: A Scientific Inquiry'
 pages 122-128. (1972)]

The Leveland, Texas, Sightings
by
Dr. J. Allen Hynek


For the moment, let us look at the probability that motors are
killed and lights and radio stop by coincidence when the driver
has a UFO close sighting.

We have all seen cars stopped by the side of the road, hood up,
waiting for tow trucks. It would be highly improbable that a car
would become completely immobilized and then a few moments later
"heal itself," yet it can happen. Perhaps, for example, a wire
that had become loose was jarred back into place in some way.
But to combine this low probability event with the simultaneous
appearance of a strange light coming down from the sky and
hovering over the car, the car remaining disabled only so long
as the light was present, is dubious at best.

It is, of course, much the easier way out to dismiss the whole
matter as "psychological" (whatever that means in this context)
and return to commonplace, understandable matters. However, that
would not be acting true to the high ideals of science, which
involve being curious about all things that occur in man's
environment, investigating and weighing them, and calmly
considering the evidence.

If the probability of a happening in any one case is extremely
low, consider the probability of coincidence in the following
train of events - if they happened as reported.

On the evening of November 2, 1957, at about 11:00 P. M., just
one hour after the Russians had launched their second,
dog-carrying artificial satellite (that certainly was
coincidence) but before we Americans knew about it, Patrolman A.
J. Fowler, officer on duty at Levelland, Texas (population
10,000), received the first of several strangely similar phone
calls.

The first was from Pedro Saucedo, who, with companion Joe Salaz,
had been driving four miles west of Levelland when a
torpedo-shaped, brilliantly illuminated object (as Saucedo
described it) rapidly approached the car. Fowler listened to a
terrified Saucedo relate the incredible story of how, as the
object passed close over the car, the truck headlights went out,
and the engine died. A certified copy of a statement made by
Saucedo reads:

To whom it may concern: on the date of November 2, 1957, I was
traveling north and west on route 116, driving my truck. At
about four miles out of Levelland, I saw a big flame, to my
right front. . . . I thought it was lightning. But when this
object had reach to my position it was different, because it put
my truck motor out and lights. Then I stop, got out, and took a
look, but it was so rapid and quite some heat that I had to hit
the ground. It also had colors - yellow, white - and it looked
like a torpedo, about 200 feet long, moving at about 600 to 800
miles an hour.

As the UFO moved into the distance, the truck lights reportedly
came on by themselves, and Saucedo found that his truck started
easily. The two men drove on to Whiteface, ten miles west of
Levelland, and it was from a phone booth there that the call was
made to Officer Fowler. Fowler apparently figured the man must
have had one too many drinks, and he dismissed the report from
his mind.

Considered by itself, the testimony of an uneducated, frightened
truck driver, as sincere in his reporting as he might have been,
has little credibility. But one hour later Fowler got another
call, this time from Mr. W. of Whitharral. Fowler was told that
he (Mr. W.) was driving four miles east of Levelland (the
direction in which the Saucedo object had disappeared) when he
came upon a brilliantly lit egg-shaped object, about 200 feet
long, sitting in the middle of the road. As Mr. W. approached
it, his car engine failed, and the headlights went out.

According to the observer, the object was lit up like a large
neon light and cast a bright glare over the entire area. The
observer decided to get out of his car, but when he did so, the
UFO rose and, at an altitude of about 200 feet, the object's
light or glare blinked out entirely. Mr. W. then had no trouble
starting his car.

A short time later Officer Fowler got another call, from another
Whitharral man, who was, at the time of the incident, some 11
miles north of Levelland. He reported to the police station that
he had come across a glowing object sitting on the road and that
as he approached it - the reader can finish the sentence -his
car engine stopped, and his headlights went out. But when the
object left shortly thereafter, all was again well.

But that was not the end. According to a signed statement in
Project Blue Book files, at 12:05 A.M. that Saturday night in
November, a 19-year-old freshman from Texas Tech, driving
roughly 9 miles east of Levelland, found that his car engine
began to sputter, the ammeter on the dash jumped to discharge
then back to normal, and the motor "started cutting out like it
was out of gas." The car rolled to a stop; then the headlights
dimmed and several seconds later went out.

Baffled at the turn of events, he got out of his car and looked
under the hood but found nothing wrong. Closing the hood, he
turned away and then noticed for the first time, he reported, an
oval-shaped object, flat on the bottom, sitting on the road
ahead. He estimated it to be about 125 feet long, glowing with a
bluish-green light. He stated that the object seemed to be made
of an aluminum-like material, but no markings or other details
were apparent. Frightened, he got back into the car and tried
frantically but in vain to restart the car.

Resigned, he sat and watched the object sitting in front of him
on the road (he did not state how close he thought he was to the
object) for several minutes, hoping that another car would drive
by. None did. The UFO finally rose into the air, "almost
straight up," and disappeared "in a split instant." Afterward,
the car was again fully operable.

"I then proceded home very slowly," his statement continues,
"and told no one of my sighting until my parents returned home
from a weekend trip .. . for fear of public ridicule. They did
convince me that I should report this, and I did so to the
sheriff around 1:30 P.M. Sunday, November 3."

At 12:15 A.M. Officer Fowler got still another call, this from a
man phoning from a booth near Whitharral. This observer reported
his encounter with the strange object at a point some nine miles
north of Levelland. Once again the glowing object was sitting on
a dirt road, and as his car approached it, its lights went out
and its motor stopped. Soon the object rose vertically, very
swiftly, and when it reached an altitude of about 300 feet, its
lights went off and it disappeared from sight. As the reader
expects by now, at this point the car lights came back on and
the car was started with no difficulty.

By this time Officer Fowler had finally realized that something
odd was going on, and he notified the sheriff and his colleagues
on duty, some of whom took to the roads to investigate. Two of
them reported bright lights, seen for just a few seconds, but
they did not have any car-stopping encounters.

At 12:45 A.M. another single witness - I have broken my rule to
use only multiple-witness cases because of the independent
witnessing of essentially the same event or object, with the
same physical effects, from independent nearby points - driving
just west of Levelland and thus close to the spot where two
hours earlier Saucedo had had his sighting, spotted what looked
like a big orange ball of fire at a distance of more than a
mile. The ball then came closer and landed softly on the highway
about a quarter of a mile ahead of the observer. It covered the
paved portion of the highway.

The wituess reported that the motor of the truck he was driving
"conked out" and his headlights died. Meanwhile, the object sat
there on the road ahead of him, glowing bright enough to light
up the cab of his truck. In about a minute, the observer
reported, it made a vertical ascent - and, of course, things
returned to normal. This encounter was not phoned in at the time
to Officer Fowler but was reported the following day. One
possibly significant clue to some as yet unknown process may lie
in the fact that the reporter stated that when the UFO landed it
changed from its original red-orange color to a bluish green but
that when it rose it changed back to red-orange. And it is
perhaps of interest to note at the object or objects always
landed on the pavement, except once, when it settled on a dirt
road.

But that is not all. At 1:15 A. M. Officer Fowler got another
call, this time from a terrified truck driver from Waco, Texas,
who was at the time just northeast of Levelland, on the
"Oklahoma flat road." The man told Fowler that his engine and
headlights suddenly failed as he approached within 200 feet of a
brilliant, glowing egg-shaped object. He said that it glowed
intermittently 'like a neon sign" and that he estimated it to be
about 200 feet long. He reported that as he got out of the
truck, the UFO quickly shot straight up with a roar and streaked
away.

Officer Fowler stated that the truck driver was extremely
excited when he called and that the witness was most upset by
his close encounter. The truck engine and lights worked
perfectly when the object left.

By this time patrol cars were out looking for the reported
object. Sheriff Clem and Deputy Pat McCulloch were being kept up
to date by Fowler as they drove around the area. At 1:30 A.M,
while driving along the Oklahoma Flat Road, between four and
five miles from Levelland, the two men spotted an oval-shaped
light, "looking like a brilliant red sunset across the highway,"
a good 300 or 400 yards south of their patrol car. "It lit up
the whole pavement in front of us for about two seconds," said
Clem.

Patrolmen Lee Hargrove and Floyd Gavin were following in their
patrol car several miles behind. In his signed state ment
llargrove stated:

  Was driving south on the unmarked roadway known as the
Oklahoma Flat Highway and was attempting to search for an
unidentified object reported to the Levelland Police Department.

=B7 . . I saw a strange-looking flash, which looked to be down the
roadway approximately a mile to a mile and a half. . . . The
flash went from east to west and appeared to be close to the
ground.

Constable Lloyd Ballen of Anton, Texas, also reported seeing the
object, although his statement was: "It was traveling so fast
that it appeared only as a flash of light moving from east to
west."

None of these patrolmen's cars was affected, but Levelland Fire
Marshal Ray Jones, who also was looking for the UFO, stated that
his car's headlights dimmed and his engine sputtered but did not
die, just as he spotted a "streak of light" north of the
Oklahoma Flat.

Officer Fowler reported that a total of 15 phone calls were made
to the police station in direct reference to the UFO, and he
added, "Everybody who called was very excited."

In terms of probabilities, that all seven cases of separate car
disablement and subsequent rapid, automatic recovery after the
passage of the strange illuminated craft, occurring within about
two hours, could be attributed to coincidence is out of the
statistical universe - if the reports are truly independent (and
they are, according to the tests we've used throughout).

Suppose we try to attribute the happening to mass hysteria,
although that does not disclose a mechanism for killing engines
and extinguishing lights and stopping radios. The observers were
independent unless all of them, for example, were listening to a
local radio station that carried the news. (No investigator
ever checked into the important question of whether the radio
stations were notified and if they broadcast the reports.) We
know that at first Officer Fowler discounted the reports, and it
is unlikely that he would have almost immediately notified the
local station. But let us suppose that he or someone else did
and that all car radios were tuned in to that particular
station. We still would need an explanation for the physical
effects reported unless we attribute them to downright
prevarication rather than to hysteria.

What was needed at the time was swift reaction by Blue Book and
a serious, thorough investigation. Captain Gregory, then head of
Blue Book, did call me by phone, but at that time, as the person
directly responsible for the tracking of the new Russian
satellite, I was on a virtual around-the-clock duty and was
unable to give it any attention whatever. I am not proud today
that I hastily concurred in Captain Gregory's evaluation as
"ball lightning" on the basis of information that an electrical
storm had been in progress in the Levelland area at the time.
That was shown not to be the case. Observers reported overcast
and mist but no lightning. Besides, had I given it any thought
whatever, I would soon have recognized the absence of any
evidence that ball lightning can stop cars and put out
headlights.

I was told that the Blue Book investigation consisted of the
appearance of one man in civilian clothes at the sheriff's
office at about 11:45 A.M. On November 5; he made two auto
excursions during the day and then told Sheriff Clem that he was
finished.

A newspaper reporter subsequently said that he had recognized
the investigator and identified him as an Air Force sergeant.

In any event, Blue Book came under severe pressure. In a memo
dated December 4, 1957, Captain Gregory complained that.... . as
a result of pressure from both the press and public

=B7 . . Assistant Secretary of Defense requested that ATIC
immediately submit a preliminary analysis to the press . . . a
most difficult requirement in view of the limited data."

Interfering with cars on the highways is but one of the physical
effects reported in this category of Close Encounters. There are
also the reported - and photographable - effects on living
things, notably plants and trees. Many witnesses have reported
temporary paralysis in their limbs when their encounters have
been quite close.

More than 300 cases of "scorched, denuded circles" and related
"landing marks" frequently associated with the sighting of UFOs
at close range have been cataloged. These, like UFOs in general,
have been reported from many parts of the world, and a definite
pattern is evident. The prototype is clear from an examination
of even a few cases.






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   Jul > Jul 30

                       Re: Ancient Astronaut Society?

From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:21:06 PDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 17:42:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Ancient Astronaut Society?

>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 19:41:55 +0200
>From: Andy Denne - A.U.R.A. <aura@telekabel2.nl>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: AAS


>Hi folks,

>I'm working on an article about von Daenikens "Ancient Airplanes"
>but to my surprised the Ancient Astronaut Society-Homepage isn't
>on acces,ch anymore!

>Does anyone out there know what is going on there? Is there
>another way Erich or Uli can be reached?

>Greetings from a cold and rainy Holland,


>Andy Denne
>(A.U.R.A)


Greetings -

The Ancient Astronaut Society website has been taken down but a
new organization called the Archaeology, Astronautics and SETI
Research Association has taken its place. Von Daniken and the
others can be reached via the new website at:

http://www.aas-ra.org/

As I member of the Ancient Astronaut Society, I would just like
to add that the Ancient Astronaut Society will cease publication
of its bimonthly journal, Ancient Skies, in February 1999.
However, the new organization has a similar type of publication
called LEGENDARY TIMES.

Regards,

- Blair Cummins
ufoblair@hotmail.com






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   Jul > Jul 31

                       Re: Ancient Astronaut Society?

From: Andy Denne - A.U.R.A." <aura@telekabel2.nl>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 01:17:55 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:39:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Ancient Astronaut Society?


> From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: Ancient Astronaut Society?
> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:21:06 PDT

> >Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 19:41:55 +0200
> >From: Andy Denne - A.U.R.A. <aura@telekabel2.nl>
> >To: updates@globalserve.net
> >Subject: AAS

<snip>

> >Does anyone out there know what is going on there? Is there
> >another way Erich or Uli can be reached?

> The Ancient Astronaut Society website has been taken down but a
> new organization called the Archaeology, Astronautics and SETI
> Research Association has taken its place. Von Daniken and the
> others can be reached via the new website at:

> http://www.aas-ra.org/

> As I member of the Ancient Astronaut Society, I would just like
> to add that the Ancient Astronaut Society will cease publication
> of its bimonthly journal, Ancient Skies, in February 1999.
> However, the new organization has a similar type of publication
> called LEGENDARY TIMES.

Thank you for your fast response!

Andy Denne






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   Jul > Jul 31

                   National Geographic's 'Return To Mars'

From: Mark LeCuyer <randydan@wavetech.net>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 17:28:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:36:31 -0400
Subject: National Geographic's 'Return To Mars'


Hello Everyone:

If you haven't heard, National Geographic now has the Return To
Mars on their website:

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/features/98/mars/

Explore the surface of Mars from the comfort of your home, with
National Geographic's Return to Mars. See 3D photos of the
surface of Mars, and then hop in the Virtual VRML Rover and
explore the surface (access the virtual rover by clicking on
the "Rover VRML"
button in any of the landing sections). As you explore the
surface, you'll be able to hear details about some of the
things that the Mars Pathfinder discovered on its journey.

It's must see, check it out!

From: Mark - Alien Astronomer
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583






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                              Filer's Files #30

From: George Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 20:07:42 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:35:48 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #30


UFOs ARE NO LONGER ON VACATION AND ACTIVE

RHODE ISLAND: V-SHAPED UFO

On Wednesday, July 22, 1998, at 10 p.m., Pamela S. and her
husband were relaxing on the deck of their home in Matunuck, RI
when they spotted a V- shaped UFO passing overhead. "It was a
warm evening, and I was laying down on my deck," Pamela
reported, "Suddenly, I saw this huge V-shaped object coming from
the south heading north. It appeared to glide across the sky,
and I could not hear any engine-type noise." Matunuck is a
village on Rhode Island's southern Atlantic Ocean shore, located
about 40 miles south of Providence, the state capital. As the
UFO came in over the ocean and flew north over Washington she
added, "I would say it was silent. It appeared to have several
box-shaped areas that sort of glowed. I wouldn't call it a
light. My husband also saw the object, but could not see any
details without his eyeglasses." Thanks to Peter Gersten of
CAUS.

CONNECTICUT

Dean Burgess writes I have been seeing star like objects since
1997, and only recently have come to the conclusion that they
are not stars, satellites or aircraft. In August 1997, I saw the
same object come over a lot closer than before. This time it
ignited from bellow illuminating the bottom of the craft. It
looked like Gulf Breeze, FL UFO sightings. The star like objects
can be seen anytime.

Thanks to Dean Burgess: djburgess@snet.net
Middletown, CT.

NEW JERSEY

Vinny in recent weeks has been photographing what appear to be
plasmas or vortexes in New Jersey and at Pine Bush, New York.
Vinny says, "I have been filming what I call Orbs. I need to
find out what they are or could be. The plasmas appear to be
twirling masses of energy. Please let me also include, I have no
camera problems in another words. I can film them with Digital
and regular film. I don't use throw away cameras or junk.
Everything I have and own is expensive I don't film in rain,
snow, etc. So it isn't moisture. But what? Pictures are posted
at: Http://members.aol.com/ufologic/Paranormal

Thanks to Vinny Ufo Contat.

Editors Note: Since you are able to obtain photographs on a
regular basis I suggest we need to obtain more data and
measurements about the plasma orbs. These are being filmed all
over the US but their exact identity is not known at this time.


GEORGIA

MUFON�s John Thompson reports that more proof has emerged that a
giant saucer- shaped UFO is visiting the Troup-Heard Corridor in
west-central Georgia. A LaGrange man says that about 19 months
ago three silvery dark beings of 4 1/2 to 5 feet tall entered
his home by coming through his bedroom wall. He said, they
seemed to "Freeze" him. They then took him through his bedroom
wall. The entities have a ceramic-like skin with no seams or
wrinkles. The witness thought the entities might have been a
solid form of energy. Although, his glimpses of them were
distorted, he felt watching them was like "looking at coins in a
deep pool of water." He was unable to discern their facial
features, but the aliens were humanoid shape. They had arms and
legs but strangely their hands seemed club-like except when they
sometimes showed "webbed" digits. Muscles and bone structure
could also be seen in the entities' bodies. The short beings
entered the man's room around 2:00 AM, on a cool weekday night
in the early winter of 1997. On coming outside into his backyard
and despite only being able to move his eyes and head slightly,
he saw the outlines of a truly huge saucer. Only the
"dark-light" edged perimeter of the craft could be seen. When
measured against the entire length of the street he lives on,
the outline of the UFO exceeded 1700 feet. This is nothing like
he had ever seen in movies or TV. He seldom watches TV, and
claims he has not seen "Independence Day" so did not know how
his saucer would compare to what the props purport to show in
that movie. He went on to say this was "not like you see in
movies. This was real!" The UFO was 100 to 150 feet high and
hovered above the many trees in the area. A portion of the dark
craft hung down immediately behind his house. Below this portion
of the craft a light emerged. In an instant the witness and the
entities were inside the craft as if there was no "gravity."
There was no beam as the movies sometimes depict. Just a flash
and they were inside. The interior of the craft was brilliantly
bright, like on a sunlit day "in the middle of a three million
acre farm."

The witness said, "The UFO interior looked like a hi-tech
"factory." There were aliens everywhere and he was put on an
examination table. Although, he could barely move his head, he
could see the tables were full of people. He was asked whether
he saw men, women or children. He answered, "All I could see was
the bottoms of their bare feet." Machines with long arms,
similar to x-ray machines were moving around each table. A probe
thumped his right front calf, while he laid on his back. He was
then flipped over and something thumped his left rear buttocks.
A mechanical arm also grabbed the crown of his head. The
machines were indescribable he exclaimed, "Their technology is
beyond anything we've got and I've never seen anything like what
I saw. You have to be there to know what I'm talking about. I
can't describe it." Humans and aliens with their attending
machines were as far as he could see. The investigator asked, if
the witness thought his whole neighborhood had been abducted? He
replied, "I surely am not going to tell them, I had been
abducted!" He does not know how he got back to his home. The
witness awakes each morning at 5:30 AM, but he slept until 10
AM. He had over-slept, and was several hours late for work. When
he awoke he found a perfect circle of peeled skin, the size of a
quarter on the front of his right thigh. The circle was painful
and red, as if someone had taken a "catfish skinner and a
compass" to make it. On his left buttocks was a large sore
bruise. On the crown of his head was a scab. He said, "I knew
for certain on discovering these painful marks the next morning
that my abduction had been real!" I "felt hot inside all-over."
He is certain that since the UFO didn�t move it would not have
been seen by passing aircraft. This is a typical case where a
large craft loiters under the cover of darkness in a low-lying
area that is masked by hills. There was also a surrealism
outside during the abduction. "You could hear a pin drop." The
only noise he heard was the sounds of moving machines. The
aliens spoke in a low and unintelligible language. Without the
physical marks left on his body he said he still would not
believe in abductions and UFOs. It was his first and only
encounter and he had never believed in UFOs or aliens before. He
claims he has "never taken drugs" and was not drinking. The next
day, he showed his best friend his circle of peeled-off skin.
For those who still think UFOs and aliens are a joke he said,
"When it happens to them, they'll believe in it then. It's no
joke!"

Thanks to, John C. Thompson. COPYRIGHT, 1998 All rights reserved.


FLORIDA

On July 29, my wife and I saw three different UFOs on
Interstate 10 going east at marker 235 near Jacksonville FL at
10:00PM. The first object looked like a saucer shaped cloud that
was glowing and flying south at 700 feet.. The vehicle was the
size of a blimp and 1/2 mile in front of us as we traveled east
at 70 mph. It took five seconds to pass over the highway and
disappear. Two minutes later, we saw a metallic object hovering
above us. It was a shiny chrome metallic saucer with arches on
the left and right side. The top and bottom were convex and
concave. It looked as though another saucer could fit on top.
The craft flew at our 70 mph pace. The vehicle rotated so that
the right arch was now facing us but, the body of the craft
stayed straight. My wife said it's beginning to move and it flew
twenty miles east in five seconds. When the vehicle went above
the clouds you could see glowing light shine through the clouds.
The third vehicle was the shape of a diamond standing on its
point. The diamond was lit up with a yellowish incandescent
light with a skirt of florescent lights beaming down from it.
The lights were about half the length of the ship. When the
diamond moved the beams stopped glowing. I think the vehicle was
creating a magnetic field that ionized the clouds causing them
to glow! We could see the last UFO to our right and the moon to
our left.

Thanks to Robert Whitman Bob@Resource1.com.

LAKE HURON

Ed Lepps reports we were racing on July 14, 1998, on a boat in
the Port Huron to Mackinac boat race. At 2:30 a.m., we were
about 2.5 nautical miles north of Presque Isle, Michigan when I
looked up and saw a bright white sphere moving east across the
sky. It was moving very slowly and quite erratically from side
to side. This lasted for about a minute, then it moved very
rapidly at a 45 degree angle into the sky and disappeared. Three
other people were on deck at the time and saw the same thing.


MICHIGAN

On Friday, July 17, 1998, at 11:10 p.m., a person in Pinckney,
MI noticed a 'white light' flashing just outside her kitchen
window. She found this odd because the kitchen window faces a
large open field, not the road, and it does get pitch black out
there. Moving closer to the window, the witness looked outside
and noticed a very bright red light. It flew from the southeast
to the northwest. It stopped above the tree line outside her
kitchen window. It was the size of softball, round, and bright
red light like a big tomato' with no defined edges. The light
hovered in this position for ten minutes then moved slowly
vanishing from view. Pinckney is 52 miles west of Detroit.
(Thanks to Alex Cavallari.)


OKLAHOMA

Cliff Capers, Skywatch International Oklahoma State Director
reports: "I spotted a black triangle while I was in the
panhandle near Elmwood helping my father-in-law bring in his
wheat harvest on June 21, 1998." Around 11:45 p.m., my
brother-in-law spotted something in the sky. I turned and saw
what looked like a small black rectangle about two degrees wide
above the horizon. The object was moving toward us from south to
north. My Dad came out and the three of us watched the stars
wink out as this object covered them. It was not a cloud, it was
solid and very black. The object flew straight at us at a slow
pace and slowed to 40 to 50 mph. The shape was triangular with
one tip facing us. As it came closer the craft grew huge and the
wind picked up to 30 mph coming from the direction of the
triangle. Using these roads as a guide I was able to estimate
the triangle was one and a half mile wide from tip to tip. Its
altitude was around 1,000 to 1,500 feet, the craft's height was
200 to 300 feet and its length was 400 to 500 feet. There were
no lights of any kind on the object and no surface detail was
visible. Throughout the sighting the object made no sound. The
Once the object reached one mile from our location, it started
moving west of us without slowing or turning. It never did pass
directly overhead. This right angle change in direction was
amazing as it was instantaneous. The triangle continued west for
a mile and then returned to a northerly course. We noticed that
the wind direction changed, so I assume the wind originated from
it. After the triangle moved passed our location the wind
stopped.

Thanks to Cliff Capers.


ARIZONA

Karl J. and three friends spotted a triangular UFO over Sedona
on July 15, 1998, at 10:00 p.m. Karl described the UFO as
"several times larger than a passenger airliner" and as "a
dark-colored equilateral triangle. There was a bright white
light on each corner and a larger glaring orange- red light in
the middle. It came from the general direction of Flagstaff
(north) and abruptly veered off in an eastern direction. It made
very little, if any, sound. The entire sighting lasted five to
ten minutes, ending when it flew out of visual range. Another
witness, Michelle, reported, "The triangular- shaped object was
moving across the sky faster than conventional aircraft. Because
of the excessive size of the craft, it created the impression
that it was moving in a slow, steady rate. The craft was a dark
or amber brown and gave the impression of an effervescent gilded
glow" that helped to define its triangular shape. "If I held up
a watermelon at arm's length it would not have obscured the
triangular shape. It was bigger than a football field."

Thanks to Peter Gersten, CAUS.


OREGON: DAYLIGHT DISC SPOTTED IN CORVALLIS,

James D. was at his home in Corvallis, OR when he spotted a
gleam in the sky in mid-afternoon on July 16, 1998. "I was in
our front yard in admiring the blueness of the sky," James
reported. He looked up and saw a plane go by from north to south
at a high altitude above the western horizon. While still facing
west with my head turned up, "I saw this whitish thing speed by
traveling west until it disappeared in the distance at about 20
degrees elevation." It was only visible for about two seconds at
the most it was going so fast. "It seemed to be at 500 to 1,000
feet," he added. "It was a 'misty' white object with no shaded
underside and no highlights reflecting the sunlight." Corvallis
is 81 miles south of Portland.

Thanks to Steve Wilson & UFO Roundup Vol. 3, #30, July 26, 1998
Editor: Joseph Trainor


CALIFORNIA: FOUR UFOs HOVER OVER REDDING

On Thursday, July 22, 1998, at 1:35 a.m., four brightly luminous
UFOs hovered over a suburban neighborhood near Lake Boulevard in
Redding, CA. For thirty minutes. The objects were seen by a
woman and her two grandchildren. According to Bonnie R., her
mother, her 12-year-old niece, and her six-year- old nephew
Devon R. They watched the UFO display for over 45 minutes. The
incident began when Devon "was awakened by the extremely bright
light coming through the bedroom window, and he woke his sister
up. They couldn't see any fuselage because of the intensity of
the white light that was the size of a golf ball held at arm's
length. "The UFOs were less than a tenth of a mile away. It
started with four bright lights that were rising up and bobbing
in the air doing side-to-side maneuvers, then they 'exploded'
and lights and small sparks flew around." "My nephew was
screaming, my mom was terrified they had come to abduct her
again. Devon described what they were seeing on the phone.

Thanks to UFO Roundup Vol. 3,#30, 7/26/98, Editor: Joseph
Trainor.


PROPULSION

Dr. Bruce Maccabee, MUFON's Maryland Director writes: Regarding
your comments on UFO propulsion. "The phenomenon associated with
the presence of a UFOs can be accounted for within the following
scientific parameters: The craft emit Electromagnetic radiation
measured isotropically that is in all directions of
approximately one megawatt, that is a million watts." Bruce
states, "This number must be considered a complete guess. The
only real data we have (here I ignore any possible data the
"control group"-- should there be one -- might have; I refer
only to "open literature data") is that, at least in some cases,
UFOs radiate visible light in the hundreds of KW to MW range.
However, the visible spectrum is only part of it. A photo taken
by Ed Walters in the presence of witnesses in Pensacola, Florida
on March 12, 1991, using infrared film indicates that there
could be many (ten? hundred?) more times in the infrared (see
UFOs ARE REAL, HERE'S THE PROOF, Avon, pg. 177). And there are
numerous other wavelengths as well. Hence "one megawatt" MIGHT
be an underestimate in some cases. One the other hand, it might
also be an OVERESTIMATE in other cases. The wave length is of
one-tenth to one twenty- five millimeters at sixty to eighty
cycles per second. Where does this come from? That is,
wavelength = 0.1 to 0.25 mm and at "60 to 80 Hz" I don't know
where you get these numbers, but as stated this makes no sense
if the "60 to 80 Hz" refers to the electromagnetic wave
frequency (the "carrier" wave). Electromagnetic radiation
travels at the speed of about 300,000,000 m/sec (or 186,000
miles per second). The relation ship between wavelength, w,
frequency, f, and speed, s is: wf = s. Hence a wavelength of 0.1
to 0.25 mm = 0.0001 to 0.00025 m corresponds to f = 300,000,000
/(0.1 to 0,.25 ) = 3,000,000,000 to 1,200,000,000 cycles per
second or Hz (these numbers could be written in exponential
notation as 3E9 and 1.2E9 Hz or 3 Gigahertz and 1.2 Gigzhertz).
These are known as "microwave" frequencies. They are still
1/1000 the frequency of infrared radiation. On the other hand,
if the "60 to 80 Hz" refers to frequency of radiation pulses (of
1.2 to 3 GHz basic "carrier" frequency.. the pulses are a
modulation of the carrier), then the only parameter still needed
to define the wave would be the pulse duration. There appears to
be an undulation motion and high frequency oscillations of
constant amplitude. ??? Where is this from? The Pulse width is
ten to forty microseconds. The pulse is a brief surge of voltage
or pulsating. Pulsating what? Current? This statement provides
the pulse duration implying the 1.2 to 3 GHz carrier wave is
"on-off" modulated (like a square wave) with the carrier being
turned on 60 to 80 times a second and each turn-on duration is
20-40 microseconds. Let's pick 80 Hz and 40 microseconds. The
time between turn-ons is 1/80 = 0.0125 second = 12,500
microseconds between turn-ons (I could wait that long to get
turned on!). The duty cycle is the ratio of the turned on time
(40 microseconds...much too short for me well, we got to find
some humor in this stuff) to the time between turn ons (12,500
microseconds) or 0.0032. If it radiates a megawatt on average,
then the peak power must be 1/0.0032 or 312 times greater, In
other words, 312 MW peak power pulses of 40 microseconds
duration each and occurring at a rate of 80 Hz will put out an
average of 1 MW. I should point out that 300 MW is an "awesome"
peak power!

 On top of the craft is an exceptionally high magnetic field
which is about a million times more powerful than we know how to
produce on the Earth. The very few actual measurements or
"chance observations" we have do suggest huge magnetic fields,
occasionally! However, one may assume that such strong fields
are not always present because magnetic effects are not always
detected. Also, whether a field will be detected or depends upon
whether this is a static field (constant polarity and constant
amplitude) or an alternating field (polarity switching at some
rate, as in an electromagnetic wave). A static field or slowly
varying field could produce some of the reported effects on
mechanical systems (noisy road sign, wobbling compass). There is
also a slow ripple effect of about ten per second. That ripple
is what causes the spinning of compasses? Maybe. Compasses could
also spin if a "non-rippling" magnetic field source were simply
to move past a compass. Incidentally, just how many such
observations are there? (I already know about Fred Johnson,
prospector, June 24, 1947)

 Regarding the high power of the UFOs, we have found that some
fairly simple instruments may be useful for tracking them. They
are know to cause disturbances to compass readings. Rather than
watching the compass continuously it is possible to get an alarm
from any compass that is setting still and starts deviating. A
simple optical- electrical circuit of the "beam breaking" type
can be used to measure the deviation of a compass needle from
its rest position. Requires a large magnetic field from a close
UFO to set it off. Scanning of the radio frequency spectrum can
sometimes pick up electrical disturbances caused by UFOs. This
can be done with rudimentary equipment such as radio receivers.
Amateur radio enthusiasts listen to a range of about 200 kHz
through about 30 MHz. Any actual detections confirmed by
observation, or is this a guess? There are cases of radio
disturbance and TV disturbance...but this does not always happen
(just as car-stopping does not always happen). These would be
the short wave listening hobbyists. The ham radio operators
would also have these, but could scan additional bands of higher
frequency. They could, if sufficient interest were generated,
build or modify equipment to scan frequencies in the microwave
region. Radar receivers often used by high speed drivers can
also be used to measure the microwave range energy that is sent
out by many UFOs. Note: radar stations use microwave radiation
of various frequencies. they also have very sensitive receivers
and large antennas. Numerous radar detections have been
recorded. However, only rarely (I know of one case) is there a
real likelihood that radiation FROM the UFO (as opposed to radar
radiation bounced off the UFO) has been recorded. Hence I would
conclude that the likelihood of detecting a UFO by listening for
microwave radiation is low at best. Editors Note: Most of my
data on UFO capabilities are taken from MUFON's former Director
of Research, Jim McCamble's data. Although the data is thought
to be accurate, there are numerous types and models of UFOs and
each could produce various types of ionization, and
electromagnetic effects. I also suggest reading UFOs Are Real by
Dr. Maccabee an excellent book.

Please send your sightings to George Filer at Majorstar@aol.com.








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              Re: Re: Hynek's 'The Emerging Picture of the UFO

From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 22:22:04 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:19:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Re: Hynek's 'The Emerging Picture of the UFO

>From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto
>Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:36:56 -0400
>Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:36:56 -0400
>Subject: Hynek's 'The Emerging Picture of the UFO Problem'

>Thanks to Francis Ridge <slk@EVANSVILLE.NET> & 'Jean' of
>the Current Encounters List for the lead on the following.

>There are many Web-impaired subscribers to UpDates - this
>is mainly for them.

>ebk

>---------------------------------------

>From: Brian Zeiler's 'Science, Logic, and the UFO Debate' site

>http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/papers/aiaa12.htm


>The Emerging Picture of the UFO Problem
>By Joseph Allen Hynek
>Northwestern University
>Evanston, Illinois

>Presented at the AIAA 13th Aerospace Sciences Meeting Pasadena,
>Calif., January 20-22, 1975

I only disagree with one thing in this entire post ebk....
this is not mainly "for the Web-impaired subscribers to UpDates,"
but rather, it is for _all_ of us to remember. It is another
reason why Dr. Hynek was the one person who gave me a modicum of
"peace of mind" all those years after my own sighting. It is
another classic example of things that he said back then which
still have great meaning for us today.

Thank you Francis, Jean [van Gemert], Brian, ebk for posting this.

God bless,
Jerry Cohen







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                 Re: UFO*BC Updates - Sightings On The Radio

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:03:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:28:54 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO*BC Updates - Sightings On The Radio


>From: Bill Oliver <boliver@direct.ca>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: UFO*BC Updates- Sightings On The Radio
>Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 22:53:19 -0700

> Special
>guest . . . Palmiro Campagna, author of 'The UFO Files, The
>Canadian Connection Exposed'.

>Sightings On The Radio . . . .http://www.sightings .com

>[Ah, yes... Campagna. The man who maintains that Michalak saw
>high in the air, and was permanently damaged by, AVRO Aero-cars
>at Falcon Lake? Another UFO 'Expert'! Seeing 'The Truman Show'
>tonight - that's much more _real_ --ebk]

ebk, you have him all wrong! It was the exhaust from one of those
_low_flying_ AVRO cars..... operating on automatic pilot (no one
inside).... which had parked for refueling when luckless Michelak
happened to walk by and look in.

I'm sure you enjoyed the Truman Show (I did)!





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                      Re: P-1947: Fort Itaipu, Brasil?

From: Zuzu <lydia.ribeiro@infolink.com.br>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 22:06:57 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:17:10 -0400
Subject: Re: P-1947: Fort Itaipu, Brasil?


>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:50:55 -0700
>From: Ed Stewart <egs@NETCOM.COM>
>Subject: Fort Itaipu, Brasil
>To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

>Hello list,

>Loren Gross needs as precise a location as possible for Fort
>Itaipu, Brazil?  The site of a November 1957 UFO incident.

>Where on the coast is it? Somewhere in southern Brazil on the
>coastline is the best I can determine, but where?  It doesn't
>seem to show on any maps. My recollection is that it was near
>Santos in the state of Sao Paulo. Also, was it part of Fortaleza
>Duque de Caxias by any chance?

>Thanks ahead of time.

Dear Friends,

Itaipu is a very beautiful beach near Niter=F3i, in Rio de Janeiro
State, near Rio de Janeiro City. It's a place that people from
Rio de Janeiro use fo their weekends. It is not a big city. It
is much a touristic city.

Its coastline is beautiful and there is a good place for





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             Re: P-1947: Hynek on The Leveland, Texas, Sightings

From: Keith Woodard <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 03:02:24 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:52:48 -0400
Subject: Re: P-1947: Hynek on The Leveland, Texas, Sightings


>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:46:22 -0500
>From: Fran Ridge <slk@EVANSVILLE.NET>
>Subject: P-1947: Hynek on The Leveland, Texas, Sightings
>To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

<snip>

I've felt for a while that this is the single strongest case on
record of what Mark Cashman calls the "Objectively Existing
Hypothesis". Based on these reports, something mainstream
science knows nothing of was definitely there.

The repeated sequence: headlights off, engine dies, headlight
on, car can start, I had not seen before. I had wondered how
precisely we knew that the electrical interference was tightly
correlated with the presence of the object or objects. My only
concern is: do we have the reports/signed statements to back
this up? Or could blanks have been 'filled-in' by Hynek's
enthusiasm? I know he was a careful scientist, but this is so
crucial I'd prefer not to depend on his infallibility.

My other concern is the disparity in appearance between the
"flaming torpedo" and the "huge egg".

Keith





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              Re: Catalog of Levelland concentration, Nov 1957

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:04:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:30:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Catalog of Levelland concentration, Nov 1957


>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>Subject: Catalog of Levelland concentration, Nov 1957
>Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 02:04:41 -0400
>To: updates@globalserve.net

>This case, perhaps the most important concentration of vehicle
>interference events in the United States, stands as a classic.

Thanks for mentioning the Levalland sightings. Hope you didn't
forget the "Sputnik Connection" (not that any of the witnesses
saw Sputnik)





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                     Re: C-E: What To Do With Sturrock?

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:04:17 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:45:11 -0400
Subject: Re: C-E: What To Do With Sturrock?


>Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 10:18:26 -0500
>From: slk <slk@EVANSVILLE.NET>
>Subject: Sturrock Panel
>To: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

>On Tue, 28 Jul 1998 11:08:17, Bob Durant <70232.17@compuserve.com>
>wrote:

>What To Do With Sturrock?

>Public opinion polls show that over 50% of adult Americans think
>UFOs are "real," over 70% think the government is hiding
i>nformation about UFOs, and 40 % think that the government is
>concealing information proving the existence of UFOs, presumably
>hardware or bodies. Only one out of three are skeptics.>>

>Those are extraordinary numbers. They mean that more Americans
>believe in UFOs than the number who voted for Reagan or Bush or
>Clinton. Roman Catholics are the largest religious denomination
>in the U.S., and the UFO "believers" outnumber them two to one.
>Fundamentalist Christians comprise about 10% of the population,
>and exert a huge influence on the Congress. UFO "believers"
>outnumber them by five to one.

>Almost without exception since the press began reporting the UFO
>story in 1947, journalism has demeaned the topic and those who
>take it seriously. The climate of ridicule surrounding the UFO
>phenomenon has prevented meaningful activity by those elements
>of our society in a position to study it. I mean, the scientific
>and academic communities. UFO research has been pushed into a
t>iny backwater, unfunded and without the resources that are
>automatic in every established discipline.

>There are some "good" reasons why scientists steer clear of
>UFOs, but the "bad" reasons are the overwhelming rule. This is a >
>cultural issue, not a scientific one.

>When 70% of the population believes its government is engaged i
>a program of systematic deception on a topic of such fundamental
i>mportance as UFOs, this presents an ominous social issue.
>Regardless of one's belief about the "reality" of UFOs, this
f>act alone should militate for an open study. This is not a
>"scientific" reason for such a study, but in a society
>increasingly alienated from its ruling institutions, it is
>nevertheless a

<snip>

The biggest roadblock to major public funding of ufology/
ufologists is the "Self-Cover-Up" - a term I invented when I
realized the degree of reluctance to "go public" on the part of
witnesses and interested scientists. _It_ is one thing to make a
private, ananymous response to a pollster that "yes I believe in
UFOs" (whatever that is supposed to mean); it is quite another
thing to say "sure, I'll put some money into it" or "sure, I'll
be willing to stand up and be counted." I'm certain every active
invesetigator has encountered situations where witnesses will
say they told their closest friends and family, perhaps, but no
one else for fear of ridicule. "My mother/father.sister/brother,
etc. know me well enough to to I wouldn't lie about a thing like
this...but I never told anyone else,"  is a typical sort of
comment. When asked if he/she reported to a UFO group the answer
often/usually is "I didn't know there was such a thing."

What has happened is that the skeptics have won the 'propaganda
battle' related to UFOs (while, little-by-little losing the
war!). If we can reverse the bad propaganda - and the Sturrock
Panel results are a step in the right direction - then we can
perhaps get funding. But, keep in mind the great reluctance that
underlies the "self cover up" - the reluctance to really come
to grips with the _implications_ of UFO reality.

UFOs are a mystery that few people really want solved. Most
(including me), I suspect, just wish it would go away. What
will be the impact of the 'Grand Realization'? I don't know. I
suspect most people don't even give it a thought, and those who
do are apprehensive.

If you are interested in contemplating the future without and
with UFOs..... ask me to email 'Fright Night'. It is self
explanatory!






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             Re: P-1947 Catalog of Levelland concentration, Nov

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:04:31 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:48:28 -0400
Subject: Re: P-1947 Catalog of Levelland concentration, Nov


>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 00:07:03 -0400
>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@IX.NETCOM.COM>
>Subject: Re: Catalog of Levelland concentration, Nov 1957
>To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

>Jan wrote:

>> Great idea, Mark....I am glad you did this! This series of
>> cases was completely obfuscated by the Air Force.

>Thanks, Jan. No question this case remains one of the most
>fascinating. I have a suspicion that there is a similar French
>concentration in the 1954 wave which will be the subject of a
>future subcatalog.

>> People talk like they know about UFOs. What conceit!
>> Loren Gross' 1957 history series runs through 10 books.>

>> We are trying to get a slimmed down version of Loren's
>> 1957 wave history published by FUFOR.

>I'd like to see Loren offer a subscription. I know that I
>personally could easily see my way clear to fifty / sixty bucks
>a year. I'm sure others could as well. This could provide long
>term funding, as well.

Loren's publication over th last ten years is a major 'Labor of
love'. No one has a more complete history of the subject
(basically putting the Blue Book file plus lots of other material
into the books he publishes). His books take up more than a foot
of length in my library. Anyone who thinks that all the
'old-stuff' is a waste of time should  read his history of 1952
(in many volumes!).








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                Re: Belgium Sightings: Discussion Summaries &

From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:54:18 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:25:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Belgium Sightings: Discussion Summaries &

>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 23:50:05 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net>
>Subject: Belgium Sightings: Discussion Summaries & Comments

>>From: The Duke of Mendoza - Peter Brookesmith
        <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>>Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:56:04 -0400
>>Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:38:58 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Triangular UFOs over Belgium

>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
>>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Triangular UFOs over Belgium
>>>Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 11:53:17 -0400

>>>>Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 11:05:29 -0700
>>>>From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" <skytracker@geocities.com>
>>>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>>>Subject: Triangular UFOs over Belgium

>Peter's correspondence re Serge and Kyle from above:
>http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/jul/m22-004.shtml

>>>The 1989 Belgium UFO flap was debated on the List last year.
>>>The debate turned out to be the usual: skeptics on one side,
>>>truth seekers on the other.

>....snip....

>>I suggest Kyle looks up the discussion of the Belgian flap on
>>the Ufomind/UpDates Web archive (address below), where he will
>>find "truth" seekers inventing such items as supersonic balloons
>>and putting them into the mouths of skeptics. He will also find
>>Mendoza saying he thought the evidence for there being an actual
>>FT craft involved was inconclusive, and that little was proven
>>one way or the other, or words to that effect.

>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

>JC:   Unfortunately there was no URL below that would take us
>directly to the file in question.

>Notwithstanding, what we really need to do is find the essential
>"data" of this case by getting to the core of discussions which
>may contain same, and eliminating all the non-data type words
>which tend to flow when one party or the other feels affronted
>for various reasons.

[...]


Jerry,

I have noticed that your synopsis covers ONE sighting of the
Belgian UFO Flap. But there is some small data missing...


From: Vague d'Ovni sur La Belgique, written by the SOBEPS in 1991,
a 502 pages book on the Belgium UFO flap.


In chapter 9 (pp. 437-442) we get statistics on 632 reports
(capitalized numbers are mine) from November 29 1989 to March 12 1991.

With a rough surface of 31,000 square kilometers Belgium is, for
an American, 1.5 times the size of the New Jersey. It should fit
300 times inside continental United States, 8 times inside Great
Britain, 18 times inside France. It fits twice within itself due
to national problems.

To get an idea of the flap this would have had the US with
nearly 190,000 UFO sightings in 16 months, Great Britain with
over 5 000 cases, France with more than 11,000.

(Professor Meessen was invited by UFO Qu=E9bec to Montreal in fall
of 1992 (or was it 1991). You understand that I jumped out of my
chair when one speaker - not Meessen! - started comparing the
Belgium flap with an alleged similar flap in Canada. When I
asked the speaker how many Canadian sightings he was talking
about and he answered 132, I looked at the guy and started to
ask him some questions about geography.)

Of course none of the 632 reports is worth looking into. The
magic of numbers has had the debunkers ojsimpsonize the F-16
case and thus contaminate the other 631 cases.

That's how you go from flap to flop.

This is science.

Please add this to any future synopsis you make on the Belgium
UFO flap.

Serge Salvaille







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                    Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs

From: John Rimmer <j_rimmer@library.croydon.gov.uk>
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:56:46 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:03:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs

> From: Mark Cashman ,mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:09:20 -0400
> Subject: Re: Why Migraines Don't Explain UFOs

Mr Cashman notes that the Batelle study and a GEPAN study found
that there *was* a difference between UFO reports which were
subsequently identified and those which remained unidentified.
Other researchers, e.g Hendry and Monnerie found otherwise. The
real problem with Mr Cashman's approach is that he seems to have
decided in advance what a "UFO" is: "metallic, structured,
contains occupants", claiming that these may be safely removed
from the class of reports which might be explained as
misinterpretations of natural phenomena. I am not so sanguine
about this, perticularly if the original sighting triggers
psychological reaction in the percipient. This need not
necessarily be one of panic, although as Hendry has shown this
can induce remarkable reports. The fact that the concept of the
extraterrestrial UFO exists, allows percipients to immediately
place a puzzling experience into a acceptable context.

Mr Cashman also has a great deal more faith than I do in the
capabilities of investigators:

> an interview is usually capable of determining the witnesses perceptual
> ability and the degree to which they are capable of distinguishing
> natural phenomena

> Most investigators use on-site reenactment to determine if the
> witness is prone to identifying non-UFO stimuli as UFOs.

From the first quotation I assume that Mr Cashman is not a lawyer
in his day job, or he would be more doubtful about the ability of
individuals to accurately describe events months, days or even
hours afterwards. Still less whan these are of an unprecedented
nature or experienced in periods of anxiety. Even if I believed
that "most" investigators used on-site reenactement, I would
still be doubtfull as to how accurately such a reenctment really
duplicated the original event, at the same time of day, weather
conditions, etc. How, for instance, would they ensure that a
suitable UFO-stimulus just happened to be passing by? Presumably
the witness simply has to say, "oh, that's a plane, nothing like
what I saw', and the investigators can rule out a conventional
explanation and start looking for ETs?

Mr Cashman considers that any suggestion that rather more than
the "tiny percentage of reports [that] have been explained as
hoaxes" might actually be hoaxes is 'not scientific', yet later
he tells us that "unreported but witnessed unusual natural
phenomena are more frequent than UFO reports". If they are
unreported, how does he know? Is this scientific? Presumably
there is no such thing as an undiscovered hoax?

I am surprised by the qualifications which Mr Cashman makes when
considering his class 'd' reports:

> d) The phenomenon occured largely as reported and represents a
> genuinely unusual phenomenon.

<snip>

> Certainly some noise remains in this category, and given the
> variability of the UFO phenomenon, it is difficult to filter this
> material. Generally the analyst wishing to reduce the noise level
> in category (d) rejects accounts of communication with UFO
> occupants, repeater sightings, and any suggestion that the witness
> has been "chosen" by the UFO source.

There seems to be no logic to these qualifications. Our 'analyst'
seems happy to include 'clearly stuctured objects, engaged in
distinctive behaviour, often leaving physical traces', but starts
getting cold feet when this 'distinctive behaviour' includes
contact with the prdominant life-form of the planet the presumed
ETs are visiting! Is this science, or just a hunch?


John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine






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                    Re: '_Have_ to Believe' Investigating

From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:54:36 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:55:26 -0400
Subject: Re: '_Have_ to Believe' Investigating


>Subject: UFO UpDate: '_Have_ to Believe' Investigating
>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 01:58:33 -0400
>To: UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>Any investigator who isn't initially skeptical isn't very mature.
>70%-90% of all initial reports end up identified by reliable
>investigators.

In the case I mentioned I believe at first the others were
sceptical but once they had decided it was real they didn't want
an opposing view point.

>Honestly, I don't want to see "believers" doing investigations.

I personally don't see a problem providing the investigation can
be done objectively. Unfortunately the 'I want to believe' factor
often interferes with that objectivity.

>If someone believes, why investigate, since they know? If one
>doesn't know, that's when one wants to investigate.

Too true. I suppose because most cases are identified as
conventional the lust for a genuine case becomes an obsession.
Again this causes an imbalance in being objective.

Thanks, Tony






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                          Help Needed With Oz Case

From: Sean Jones <Tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:42:05 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:05:06 -0400
Subject: Help Needed With Oz Case

Hi Errol Hi All

I have just been passed the scant details of a believed abduction
in Australia. Can anyone help me with a contact address snail or
electronic for a researcher who could follow this up please.

---
    In an infinite universe inifinitely anything is posible.
                       Sean Jones
 Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm
         Research page--http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/






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                                 BAR 199807

From: Bufo Calvin <BufoCalvin@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 09:40:52 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:13:42 -0400
Subject: BAR 199807


Bufo Calvin
P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA  94596
Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Website: http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or
redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that
attribution is made to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is
good etiquette to check with strangers before you e-mail them
something. If you forward this, please make sure it is clear
that you are forwarding it).

July, 1998 (Vol 1, #7)

Books mentioned in BAR can be ordered on most e-mail systems by
clicking on the hyperlink title. This will take you to the book
at Amazon.com. You can read more about it at that point and
decide if you want to order it. If you do, you add it to your
"shopping cart". Then, if you want another title mentioned here,
please click on it in this post. If you have questions, please
e-mail Bufo at bufocalvin@aol.com. Books are also available by
phone from Greenleaf Publications at 1-800-905-UFOs
(1-800-905-8367). If you call, please be sure to tell them that
Bufo sent you.

If you have books to recommend, please let me know. If you would
like to be named as recommending it, include that information as
well and tell me you would like to be cited.

In this issue: Featured Title, Recommended by Others, Recent
Additions, and Most Intriguing (FLASH: Most Intriguing was
killed by the deadline...that's why they call them deadlines :)
. I expect for it to return next issue).

----------

FEATURED TITLE:

The Field Guide To North American Monsters Subtitle: Everything
You Need to Know About Encountering Over 100 Terrifying
Creatures in the Wild
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0609800175/bufosweirdworld
Field Guide to North American Monsters) by W. Haden Blackman
Paperback (272 pages) June, 1998 List Price: $15.00, Amazon
Price*: $12.00 "As long as you recognize that monsters free us
from stale routine and return to us a sense of wonder lost with
the end of childhood, your search for monsters has been a
success." --W. Haden Blackman, The Field Guide to North American
Monsters

If that's all you want, you may be satisfied with this book. If
you are interested in cryptozoology (as opposed to what the
author calls "monsterology"), you may be a bit disappointed.

Don't get me wrong: I enjoyed the book. It's just that it owes
far more allegiance to Jeff Rovin's remarkable popular culture
reference works than it does to Bernard Heuvelmans. There is no
attempt to be scientific: it's quite clear that the point of the
book is to entertain.

The book contains several inaccuracies and omissions, albeit
amusingly written. For instance, Roger Patterson is described as
leaping from his horse to pursue bigfoot (when he made the most
famous film of the creature). The accounts that I have read have
always made it clear that the horse was spooked, and his
dismount was due to the rearing. Similarly, the escape of Albert
Ostman, who claimed to have been kidnapped by a bigfoot in 1924,
is described this way: "...Ostman fired his rifle into the air,
startling the family, then bolted from the valley."  No mention
of the "old man" sasquatch allegedly downing a box of snuff
first which incapacitated him.

Both of these "plot elements", which to me seem to make the
stories more interesting, are reported in the one "classic"
bigfoot book cited in Blackman's bibliography (Peter Byrne's THE
SEARCH FOR BIGFOOT). Blackman may have chosen not to include
them, or perhaps didn't read the book thoroughly. Not
surprisingly, he doesn't list other early major bigfoot authors:
Sanderson, Green, Napier, etc. These books, sadly, are not that
easy to obtain. Books on these topics are treated as ephemera. I
had hoped the OPUS Educational Institute could  help address
this issue. I have renewed hopes for the new Charles Fort
Institute.

I have only discussed bigfoot, but one of the strengths of the
book is the breadth (if not depth) of coverage. It's nice to see
mention of some of the less well-known monsters, like the
Chicken Man or the Bear Lake Serpent. Unfortunately,
cryptozoology students will probably find it =too= inclusive.
The author blithely mixes creatures which witnesses have
arguably presented in sincerity with urban legends, denizens of
"creative taxidermy" (like the jackalope) and Amerind mythology.
In at least one case, the entity seems to be directly from
fiction: the Flesh Eater type zombie is straight out of George
Romero's NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD. Has anyone ever actually
reported encountering these?

I could go on and on: the apparently arbitrary statistics, the
way that almost every entry has to be (in some cases
contradicting the main body of the article) described as a
threat, etc. If any of the Editors on this list would like a
longer review, please let me know. Let me sum it up this way:
it's fun and well-written, but using it as a reference would be
like basing your World
War II report on HOGAN'S HEROES.

----------

RECOMMENDED BY OTHERS

Interesting, two different correspondents apparently independently recommended
the following book:

Everything You Know Is Wrong, Book One: Human Origins
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0966013433/bufosweirdworld
Everything You Know Is Wrong, Book 1: Human Origins)
by Lloyd Pye
Paperback, January 1997
List Price: $20.00, Amazon Price*: $20.00

>Here is a great book I would recommend to anyone interested in
>an alternative explanation to Darwinism and Creationism, based
>on the works of Zecharia Sitchin. --phiroc@ix.netcom.com

>If you have not reviewed Lloyd Pye's book Everything You Know
>Is Wrong; Book I: Human Origins, you are missing the boat on a
>most interesting book. Even if you don't agree with all of the
>concepts, it is still a most informative book , full of
>exceptional information. If you haven't reveiwed it and choose
>to, yes, you  may use my name as having referred it to you.
--grandmagreen@webtv.net

I'm hoping to get a copy of it soon, so that I can let you know
what I think. Thank you again for your recommendations!  If
=you= have a book (or video, etc.) to recommend, I'd appreciate
the opportunity to pass it along. Please be sure to let me know
if you would like to be cited.

RECENT ADDITIONS:

Some of the items recently added to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD BOOKS:

Alien Agenda
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0061096865/bufosweirdworld
Alien Agenda (paperback))
by Jim Marrs
Paperback, August 1998
List Price: $6.99, Amazon Price*: $5.59

Dreamland
Subtitle: Travels Inside the Secret World of Roswell and Area 51
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0679456511/bufosweirdworld
Dreamland (Patton)
by Phil Patton
Hardback, August, 1998
List Price: $25.00, Amazon Price*: $17.50

Edgar Cayce on the Millenium
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0446605875/bufosweirdworld
Edgar Cayce on the Millenium)
by Jess Stearn
Paperback, August 1998
List Price: $6.50, Amazon Price*: $5.20

The Mars Mystery
Subtitle: The Secret Connection Linking Earth's Ancient Civilization and the
Red Planet
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0609600869/bufosweirdworld
The Mars Mystery)
by Graham Hancock and Robert Bauval
List Price: $26.00, Amazon Price*: $18.20

Time Travelers From Our Future
Subtitle: An Explanation of Alien Abduction]
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1567183077/bufosweirdworld
Time Travelers From Our Future
by Bruce Goldberg
Paperback, July 1998
List Price: $12.95, Amazon Price*: $10.36

The Uninvited
Subtitle: An Expose of the Alien Abduction Phenomenon
(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0879518782/bufosweirdworld
The Uninvited (Pope))
by Nick Pope
Hardback, June 1998
List Price: $22.95, Amazon Price*: $22.95

----------------------------------------------------------------
*Prices are set by Amazon.com. Clicking on the link will take
you to their current listing and reflect the current price.
____________________________


This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that
=would= be weird!"
____________________________

You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is
commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from
those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also
subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert the
same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the
media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week
before.
 _____________________________

**OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and
Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS
Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network
Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is
important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or
others presented under my own name. For more information on
OPUS, see its website at http://members.aol.com/josephxx3






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 31

                      Re: P-1947: Fort Itaipu, Brasil?

From: Donnie W. Shevlin <dshevlin@primary.net>
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 13:19:55 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:53:52 -0400
Subject: Re: P-1947: Fort Itaipu, Brasil?


> From: Zuzu <lydia.ribeiro@infolink.com.br>
> To: <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: P-1947: Fort Itaipu, Brasil?
> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 22:06:57 -0700

> Dear Friends,

> Itaipu is a very beautiful beach near Niter=F3i, in Rio de Janeiro
> State, near Rio de Janeiro City. It's a place that people from
> Rio de Janeiro use fo their weekends. It is not a big city. It
> is much a touristic city.

> Its coastline is beautiful and there is a good place for
> sea-sports liker sailing, swimming  etc.

> Sincerily,
> Lydia

I say, all on this list should go to Itaipu for an in-depth
analysis of the 1957 incident and, perhaps, get in some water
sports. Now this is the place to do some ufology work. :)

Donnie

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to lose common functionality of my brain
from time to time.






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Jul > Jul 31

                      Nua Blather: Negative Capability

From: Dave Walsh <dave@nua.ie>
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:22:19 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:55:18 -0400
Subject: Nua Blather: Negative Capability

*******************************************************************
NUA BLATHER  NUA BLATHER NUA BLATHER
Weekly free email of Dogma Destruction,
Forteana and High Weirdness

By Daev Walsh   Email: blather@nua.ie
Web: http://www.nua.ie/blather/
*******************************************************************
July 31 1998  Published By:  Nua Limited  Vol 2. No. 12
*******************************************************************

NEGATIVE CAPABILITY



EXPLAINING THE Z
Following Blather's blabbers about the mysterious July 10th *Z* in
the sky (http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives2/issue2no11.html), a
cornucopia of diverse explanatory theories have reached HQ.

'There never was an explanation which didn't itself need to be
explained.' - Charles Fort


Dr Carl Bradbury at the Atmospheric Physics Department at Manchester
Institute of Science and Technology was in touch, and while he didn't
himself witness the 'Mark of Zorro' he does have a theory -- and only
a theory, mind -- to explain them: Mesospheric clouds.


'Mesospheric clouds around 83km [52 miles] (altitude take the form of
either Polar Mesospheric Clouds (PMC) or Noctilucent Clouds (NLC),
which can be observed during the summer in the latitude range 50-70N
in the twilight arc of the Earth's shadow. These clouds are known to
be comprised of water-ice crystals which form at the Mesopause (the
top of the mesosphere) as a result of the extremely cold temperatures
in that region. Usually this water reaches the mesosphere during the
summer through the upward movement of solar heated air from the
stratosphere over the poles. However, it is now thought by some that
cometary fragments containing water are constantly entering the
Earth's atmosphere, where they vaporise in the upper atmosphere
(although there is still a big argument over this one). If the
conditions were just right (clear sky, a substantial cometary
fragment, and the right size of water droplet forming) it is possible
that a vapour trail could appear as a thin noctilucent cloud. As you
said yourself, such a trail would then be shifted by atmospheric
circulation and form the letter Z.

'Of course, all this depends solely upon the time of the sighting. If
it occurred more than an hour after sunset it wouldn't be a
noctilucent cloud as the cloud would be in the Earth's shadow. In
which case its back to the drawing board.'

He later added:

'I'd like to stress that it's only a theory. Noctilucent clouds and
Polar Mesospheric clouds are established phenomena, although you
cannot see the former because the frozen cloud droplets are too
small. There is still a bone of contention over the existence of a
constant hail of cometary fragments - some scientists have attributed
black spots and streaks in infra-red satellite images to the
resulting water vapour trails (I had a reference here, but can't find
it, sorry). I find it surprising that some people will not admit the
possibility of such a phenomena, when we know that this is exactly
the process by which the Earth gained all its water in the first
place. I'm still a bit worried about the time though, 10:30 is still
quite a long time after sun set. Although, thinking about it, at the
equinoxes the sun takes 12 hours to cover the 180 degrees of sky. If
we use the civil definition of "night" as beginning when the sun
sinks 6 degrees below the horizon, then it will take 24 minutes to
cover those 6 degrees. There is still an amount of twilight left even
after this official time, so I dare say we could extend the period of
twilight in the west for up to almost an hour. Ok, I've convinced
myself. It is possible.

'Sorry about my reticence to commit myself fully to the hypothesis,
but as a Fortean I feel it is my duty not to do so!'


David Moore from Astronomy Ireland was also in touch with
Blather (http://ireland.iol.ie/~ai/). He did see the formation, and
reckoned it was a "?" shape. Several of AI's members phoned in to
report meteor sightings.


RUMOUR MILL
A little bird emailed Blather during the week with some seemingly
well founded rumours. I shall refrain from identifying the avian
informer for now, but the tale originates from an acquaintance
who works at the Belfast docks.
Quite recently, he was indulging in an after work drink with his
friends, when a conversation was struck up about UFOs. Some of his
fellow drinkers told of how a certain ufologist -- mentioned perhaps
all too regularly in this column (he's even mentioned elsewhere in
this issue) -- managed to sneak on board a US Navy Vessel with an
unidentified accomplice. When stopped and challenged he told them his
name and that he was "Ireland's Most Respected Ufologist", and that
he was there because there 'might be something of interest to him on
board'. The US Navy were quite *amused*, enough to keep "Ireland's
Most Respected Ufologist" in the brig overnight. Looks like The Irish
Independent article of Saturday July 11th has gone to his head. Of
course, this is all hearsay and rumour, and Blather wouldn't claim
any of it to be true. . .

Another Blather co-conspirator wonders if 'can we look forward to
ICUFOS storming Area 51? Burgling the Pentagon? Graham Birdsall, Tony
Dodd and Tim Good in a Ninja assault on Whitehall? Cool...!'

GIVE AND TAKE
In *On the Boyle*, we quoted from bOING bOING magazine:

'*The Sceptical Believer* reckons that "despite his lisp,
Greer is a charismatic, powerfully articulate man, probably one of
the best public speakers I've ever heard. And I can definitely
say that he's probably the best damn liar I ever heard and this
possibly makes him, despite his politically correct trappings, the
most dangerous of all UFO cult leaders."'
(http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives2/issue2no10.html)

And The Irish Independent:

'When Doherty asks about "alien abductions that involve experiments
and coercive sex", Ansbro counters with "You get back what you put
out..."'

The every enigmatic Brother Blue, B:.B:. of the Brotherhood of
Galactic Science got in touch to tell us that

'One of our young Initiates -- upon reading these two Profound
Sayings IN THE SAME ISSUE impetuously asked us, "So does that mean
if Doc Stevie gets oneathem strange probes shoved up his butt, he
must've been putting out bullshit?"

'We scolded him severely, of course.'


OCCASIONAL QUOTE OF THE WEEK
'Negative Capability, that is when man is capable of being in
uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching
after fact and reason.'

- Poet John Keats, letter to George and Thomas Keats, 21 December
1817


NOTE
This Blatherskite will be unavailable for comment until August 20th,
as he will be off in Norway on the GUST Expedition
(http://www.bahnhof.se/~wizard/gust/). How and ever, Blather shall
arrive in everyone's mailbox as usual. Please direct all technical
queries (until August 20th) to paul@nua.ie

Dave (daev) Walsh
Friday, 31st July 1998



Feedback and comments to <blather@nua.ie>

Have your say: http://www.nua.ie/blather/blabber

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